open thread – June 15-16, 2018

by Alison Green on June 15, 2018

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue.

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  1. AdAgencyChick*

    Would love to hear from other managers who work in open offices: How the heck do you manage?

    My company is owned by a larger holding company that’s following an industry-wide trend to shrink office space as much as (the bean-counters think is) possible. What this has meant for us: only one private office in the entire agency (the CEO’s); small offices are shared by two senior staff each; all mid- and junior-level employees have smallish desks in an open space. Conference room space is at a premium; every actual conference room is booked, and often double-booked, for business hours, and two of the conference “rooms” are actually open spaces.

    This makes it damn near impossible to have a private conversation without leaving the building and going to, say, a coffee shop!

    I do have one of the shared offices so sometimes I’m able to speak to my direct and indirect reports in private when my office-mate is in a meeting. But I’ve also had to ask people to come out for coffee on occasion, which I’ve eaten the cost for. I don’t love this, both because I now have to pay money to do my job and also because the coffee shop isn’t exactly a private setting either.

    I recently approached my boss (who is one step down from the CEO) about getting all managers a budget for managerial outings like this, and she liked the idea, so hopefully we can make that happen. But I would love to hear any other tips and tricks for managing effectively in this kind of space, because I’m pretty sure this trend of squeezing agencies into smaller and smaller spaces is not going away.

    1. Jane Austen is my fave*

      I work in a small company. Only one person has an office with a door (the VP of Finance). Our President (my boss) tells me to go in there for private conversations. Uhh…even with headphones in, the VP would hear everything I need to discuss with whoever it is, so I don’t consider that a viable solution.

      I solve this by taking walks outside, one on one. We’re in a business park so it’s easy enough to do; we don’t have to go down an elevator, etc. That kind of time sink wouldn’t be worth it.

      1. AdAgencyChick*

        This sounds great, although it wouldn’t work at my office since we are located right by the entrance to a major roadway. There’s traffic noise at all hours :(

      2. KAG*

        My (thankfully) ex-office had this same problem. There was one legit conference room – and two private offices, each about twice its size, belonging to the two co-owners. Who were each in the office less than once per month.

        Far less than ideal, as I was always afraid the cEO would just pop in during an important call.

    2. KellyK*

      That’s pretty ridiculous. Does your office mate also manage people? If you’re in the same boat, maybe you could come to an agreement that you can kick each other out for meetings with the people you supervise? Granted, that depends on your being able to take your work elsewhere. It’s also probably better if you can schedule it, at least loosely.

      If your office mate doesn’t manage anyone, are there other managers you could swap with? (Either a permanent seating change or an informal, “Since you and Tangerina are in a meeting Monday mornings, can I use your office to meet with my reports? You’re welcome to do the same on Thursday afternoons when Lucinda and I are in the Llama Wranglers meeting.”)

      There’s also the option of using instant messaging or email for at least some of those conversations.

    3. De Minimis*

      We have this issue in my department. We at least have a conference room we can use when we need to that are private, but we’re about to move to a coworking space and I don’t think anyone has thought about this yet. I’ve been in the new offices and they are not private even though they have a sliding glass door that closes–but the walls are thin and there’s no way you can have a private conversation in there. I think people will have to just start using e-mail…

    4. Ladylike*

      I think this trend is just awful. The employees of every company I’ve worked with an “open concept” totally resent it. It’s impossible to have private conversations, or shield yourself from the noise of others’ conversations. Makes me wonder how in the world it ever became a “thing”. I don’t have much advice to offer, except that a manager I worked for in a similar environment would occasionally ask me to join him in a break room or the cafeteria. Even that was only semi-private and seemed counterproductive.

      1. AdAgencyChick*

        It becomes a thing because the holding company that owns us saves beaucoup bucks on rent, but doesn’t see for themselves the effect on productivity. Same with outsourcing IT; they picked a company that presumably costs less than having in-house staff but is incredibly slow to respond. Some staffers here are trying to quantify the effect on productivity to justify hiring back more in-house staff, and I very much hope they succeed.

        1. Grouchy 2 cents*

          Yeah, all they care about is the bottom line. They don’t actually care if people like it, if it improves productivity, or if it suddenly takes a week to get a printer fixed. And I’m guessing they cheap out on salaries and benefits too. At some point there will be a great awakening where idiots like this realize that the lowest bottom line is the very thing causing them to lose employees, business and profit because no one can get anything done – or wants to try to get anything done after being treated like mushrooms for far too long.

          2. SpaceNovice*

            Yup, all they care about is the bottom line. It’s one of the reasons why some companies fight really hard to stay private. The second you go public, you get a huge amount of pressure to cut costs, and then everything goes downhill. A good part of the reason why retail giants are dying is because of this exact dynamic. People stop shopping at depressing stores (and stores that treated their friends, who were employees, like crap).

    5. Garland not Andrews*

      A conference room is your best bet. I’ve worked in open plan/cube farm offices for years, and that is how managers/supervisors without offices dealt with private meetings.

    6. Kess*

      Yeah, it’s common at my company for managers to take employees out for coffee for 1-on-1s, but they can definitely expense it; you shouldn’t need to pay out of your own pocket. Also if anyone is away you might be able to duck into their office for a quick chat if there are no meeting rooms available.

    7. MAB*

      In my office space I have a cube, my coworker (who is also a manager) has a cube and we share the space with 3 of our direct reports. Its also a freaking hallway. Our company has grown so quickly/sporadically we have people in trailers and the less popular departments will double to triple up on office space (yes it sucks). I use my desk for one on ones after working out with the DR and my coworker to keep anything they hear to themselves. We do have a former lab space next door that we have another 2-3 DR working (with 2 computers) that I can ask them to move when I need something more private. HOWEVER that is also used as a lactation space so our DR are constantly being moved out as well. We are also in the middle of a field so we can’t easily go and get coffee or something like that. Needless to say we get creative, ask each other to be respectful and keep things to themselves.

      We have an office rebuild approved. I am counting the days until that is finished.

    8. Poniez R Us*

      1. It is not the bean counters’ choice. This is more of an HR/strategy thing and the added benefit of reduced overhead costs makes the decision easier. Bean counters prefer our private space during busy times.
      2.I worked in an open office for 2 years. We had to use conference rooms a lot for one on one convos. We had booths we could use for not so private convos but needed to have a seperate space type of things.
      3. How to cope – headphones with soft music for when you are alone, use the conference rooms as much as possible. This means scheduling meetings ahead of time because they will be taken up fast since everyone will run into this issue. If you have to go to a coffee shop, get the cheapest options or just get water so you can sit down for a bit and keep the meetings short.

      Good luck!

      1. Tangerina*

        HR here, we prefer our private space, too. Imagine how difficult it is to have a difficult private conversation with an employee in an open space. I’ve had to beg the use of someone’s office in order to terminate an employee.

        1. The Friendly Comp Manager*

          I came here to say the same thing, it is usually not HR driving this, we understand how important it is to have privacy to effectively manage. Sometimes it is HR, but normally it appears to be HR because HR is usually the one tasked with actually executing the strategy come up with by senior leaders.

      2. Jadelyn*

        Nope, it’s not “an HR thing” in the slightest. Whether it’s the bean counters or not, I can’t say, but I think more than anything it’s shortsighted prioritizing at the top levels by people who will never actually have to experience the environment they’re creating for their staff. There was, for awhile, the idea that open workspaces created a more collaborative culture, which is the HR/strategic thing you’re thinking of, but I think by now we’re all well aware that they don’t actually do that and the fact that companies continue to do it is more about the cost savings/”trendiness” of it than anything else.

        1. Lison*

          From personal experience I would say that the collaboration thing works when it is less than or equal to 8 people who are all on the same project(s) or team, those overheard conversations often mean someone can clear up misunderstandings or say what was decided before and make the process faster. More than that no. And there need to be spaces available so multiple people are not trying to have a meeting at one time in the shared space. Over 8 and it is just insane unless everyone never has to collaborate or is just answering calls.

    9. Ann Furthermore*

      I’m about a month into working in a completely open office environment. It’s….not as awful as I was fearing. Our desks are all about 5 feet wide, so you do still have a little personal space and don’t feel like you’re sitting in someone else’s lap. There are conference rooms, but the office is being built out, so booking them will be more challenging.

      There are quite a few “huddle” rooms, big enough for 2 or 3 people. I use them for conference calls when it’s just me meeting with someone from another office. Those are good for private conversations too.

      I usually get to the office around 7:15 or 7:30, and most of my co-workers don’t come in until 8:30 or 9. Our section of the office is completely deserted. For scheduled meetings, maybe you could ask your direct reports to come in early, or stay a little later, so you can have a private discussion after people have arrived or left for the day.

    10. Hallowflame*

      Not a manager, but I work for a large company that uses open floorplans in it’s offices. There are a lot of high level discussions that just happen out in the open, and time in the conference rooms is competitive. However, we also have private “phone rooms” where two people can go and talk privately (these are often used for performance reviews) and “huddle rooms” with seating for 4-5 people for small team meetings.
      I know this isn’t helpful for someone already in an open floorplan office without these accommodations, but it could be helpful for someone looking to transition their office to this style or make improvements.

    11. SavannahMiranda*

      I work in legal support for start-ups and many of our clients are going the direction of open offices, or simply started off there, while our law offices are more traditional with discrete spaces, discrete responsibilities, and doors.

      There is a reason I went in-house only briefly, and returned to firm life as soon as I reasonably could. The open concept office and office sharing is not the only reason but is at the top of the list.

      My partner also worked in one of these offices and he purportedly loved it. But he worked on a team of developers where exchange of ideas throughout the day was key to the work product. Exchange of ideas throughout my day means I literally can get nothing done.

      However, in every open-plan office I’ve seen, HR has had private spaces with doors. Typically C-suite execs, unless they are trying to set some kind of open-office example, and HR. The fact that HR does not even have closed door spaces in your office is suspicious and demoralizing. It shows how little at least an attempt at decent planning for open spaces matter.

      How does HR put someone on a PIP? Or present and discuss an employee’s new stock options? Or negotiate salaries with new hires? If they can’t close a damn door.

      At minimum, HR should have doors. And there should be sufficient abundance of readily-available breakout rooms and conference spaces that are not embargoed or held up by disastrous scheduling. The fact that you don’t have this is astonishing. And I completely understand your dismay and frustration.

      1. AdAgencyChick*

        “How does HR put someone on a PIP? Or present and discuss an employee’s new stock options? Or negotiate salaries with new hires? If they can’t close a damn door.”

        I srsly don’t understand either. How to solve the PIP problem has been on my mind a LOT lately.

        1. MI Dawn*

          Our building has gone to open plan. HR is also, BUT…there are a lot of conference rooms, multiple huddle rooms and directors and above have private offices with doors. In HR, there are also a lot of private (can’t be booked by anyone but HR) conference rooms.

          TBH, I dislike the open concept. It’s noisy because there’s nothing to stop the noise. So our powers-that-be “solved” the noise problem by piping in ‘white noise’ which gives me a horrible headache. I’m the type of person whom repetitive noises (clock tick, faucet drip, static) drives me insane. I’ve started to wear noise-cancelling headphones at work which help a lot. They don’t block non-repetitive noises, so I hear clearly when people speak near me or to me. But they greatly muffle that darn hissing noise!

          1. Lison*

            Which negates the advantages of having people in the same space, there are too many and everybody is trying to drown everybody else out. So no collaboration, but in a smaller group someone overhears people discussing the llama shearing crisis with someone suggesting X and can say “oh that happened in 2014 and it turned out X while being a logical point to start from, made things worse so maybe start with Y and see will X help”

      2. Inquiring minds*

        Why should HR be privileged? You HR people aren’t the only ones who work with sensitive/confidential data, y’know.

    12. Shreksays o*

      if your company has a bad open seating plan, make an ask for a phone booth. And if your company is thinking about switchin to open seating, make a loud point that open floor plans should include an increase of smaller meeting rooms to compensate for the loss of offices. Because often the justification for doing away with offices is that they are often empty while their owners are meeting. It you open floor plans increase the need for meetings -thus increase the need for meeting space.

    13. Llama Grooming Coordinator*

      Mid-level, supervise 20 people, work in an open space in an urban environment, team has…issues with boundaries (as well as other things).

      What I normally do is “steal” someone’s office (I’m glad I’m friends with all of our counselors!), or use our break room. (My agency has standardized break times and semi-standard shifts. So our break room is usually only occupied for a few hours a day.) It’s difficult, but I try to make it work.

    14. Lore*

      I recently joined an “office culture” committee and the #1 issue is the utter lack of space to do quiet work or make calls. It’s getting worse because construction will be closing the cafeteria seating and many conference rooms for 6 months. (And the official solution to privacy had been the cafeteria or Starbucks.) I’m not a manager but I recently got put on a “secret” project where I’m the lowest ranked person and the only office-less person and I had to painstakingly explain to the rest of the group that 12 people can see when I’m away from my desk for an all day meeting and I have to have some reason I’m allowed to give them! Our solution has been to be more liberal with flex time and WFH and try to schedule quiet/privacy stuff for when you’re not on site. Which works until you come to performance reviews.

      1. Turquoisecow*

        I would hate to have a performance review at a Starbucks or similar, even if it was 100% positive and I was getting a raise and promotion. Definitely not if there was anything negative in there at all! I’d rather sit in my boss’s car.

        1. only acting normal*

          Yeah… I burst into tears at a performance review in the (busy) cafeteria once. My manager had nothing but positive feedback for me but I was *this* close to quitting because of my impossible supervisor. It was… awkward.

      2. Jadelyn*

        The official solution for privacy was to…go sit in a literal public space. *facepalm*

        How do they not see how ridiculous this is…?

    15. Hope Is Not A Strategy*

      I work in tech. No one, not even the CEO, has an office in my (medium-sized) company. The only rooms with doors are conference rooms, 1:1 rooms (small rooms with two chairs and a side table+phone), or phone booths (smaller rooms with one chair and a side table+phone). They are totally soundproof and give much-needed privacy. But this was planned ahead in the building design and doesn’t help your current situation. The only thing I can think of is potentially changing the shared offices into these types of private spaces and putting everyone in the open area (assuming you have the room), but that might cause a whole other set of problems.

    17. Kimberlee, no longer Esq.*

      There’s one thing that open offices absolutely need, and I never see anything written about it, and I’m guessing that’s because a lot of people don’t even know if they have them: white noise machines.

      At my old workplace, we had them suspended from the ceiling about every 4 rows of desks or so. They don’t make it sound “noisy” but they dampen noises from spreading too far. It makes things 1000% better.

      1. Jadelyn*

        Those are not as much of a magic bullet as you might think. I know I’d go absolutely nuts at having a single background *sound* going all day. I literally physically breathe a sigh of relief when it cools off enough that I can turn off my fan or A/C at home, I would loathe any kind of white noise machines like that. Someone upthread mentioned that white noise machines give them headaches. So while they might help for some, they can also create more problems than others.

        1. Paula, with Two Kids*

          We have them in ours, but it’s inaudible to me. They do work pretty darn well, only hear about 10 people around me.

        2. Nines*

          I’m not the only one? We used to have very old crappy speakers that were great when in use but when they weren’t being used but still on they buzzed and it drove me nuts! My partner always was completely oblivious to it. I’m starting to think I wouldn’t get along well with white noise machines either.

    18. Mona25*

      I work in an open office, (low cubicle walls, I can the person in front of me, no assigned seats). Mon-Thurs., takes some getting used to because the majority of people are here. Fridays are pretty quiet, like today, I am typing this while listing to music thru headphones. There are only two offices, occupied by the Administrator and the Deputy Administrator (Federal Agency). We have phone rooms if you need to make a call, lots of small, medium and large conference rooms if you need to meet with people. HR is the only group in a designated closed space. The majority of people that complained about this concept when it was announced two years ago have taken one of the 3R’s (retired, reassign, resigned) before we moved. The complainers that are still here that can’t telework have basically been told to suck it up. This is what the government is moving to in new and redesigned spaces.

      1. Mark132*

        Is hot cubing as bad as it sounds? I would hate having to find a desk every morning.

    19. Ruby*

      Would it be possible to make calls in your car? I was in an open office and if I REALLY didn’t want someone to hear my convo, I went to my car. Over time, I stopped caring if people could hear my phone convos. One coworker would regularly say his credit card and Social Security numbers. We joked how I could steal it, but I obviously never did! Most of the time, others don’t care, they’re wrapped up in their own stuff. The other option is to schedule time in a conference room, like others have suggested.

    20. KTM*

      This sounds like open concept gone wrong. I think sometimes I’m the only person that likes open concept at work, but I think our company does it right. We are a 30 person office with two bookable conference rooms, two un-bookable offices/small conference rooms, and a large break room. There are also two decent sized conference tables out in the open floor plan, one with a large monitor for displaying content, so if you need someplace to congregate, but don’t necessarily need privacy, you can use those. A lot of people still go outside to take personal calls though (we’re in a business park). I enjoy the open space and collaboration/conversation and wear headphones if I really need to be more isolated. Our group is also generally very quiet so that helps.

      Is there a way your office can examine who’s booking the conference rooms and for what purpose and ask in general for people to prioritize that for absolute necessity (ie private meetings)? And add conference tables out in the open space?

    21. Bridget H.*

      I’m currently looking for a new job and a constant issue keeps occuring. I posted a job wanted ad on Craigslist and have received a few legitimate inquiries for available positions. They want to meet and ask me to send over my resume so I do. But after that, I never hear a word back. I wait a few days, send an email asking if they received my resume they asked for and what time frame they are thinking of meeting and still nothing. I have received positive comments about my resume so I’m not 100% convinced that’s the issue. What do you think is going wrong?

      1. Evie*

        Hi Bridget,
        I can’t speak to your question (craigslist isn’t a site I use! Though usually I chase jobs posted on specific job sites rather than post my resume and get searched for, or use more varied sites like that),
        But I thought I’d mention that you might get more traffic on your question if it’s its own thread rather than being nestled into another topic which is that has happened here.

        Good luck with the job hunt!

    22. Girl friday*

      I work in restaurants, and I love it. Even here, there are places to have private conversations although there are security cameras and things. We had someone call yesterday and ask if there was a jungle room on the second floor, and although I’m known for exploring my work places, I think in most restaurants and bars it’s still the restroom or outside.

      Most people consider professional phone calls and conversations to not be private in the workplace, especially in open workplaces. The threat Level from cyber theft, corporate insecurities and personal or professional competition will determine how much privacy you get. I wouldn’t want you to be trying to squirrel away in a corner when what you should be doing is making your conversations more professional and concise. If you consider environments where it’s purely competition based, and or pure collaboration based work: restaurants :-), car dealerships, market trading, and Air Traffic Control, at least you’ll realize it could be much worse!

      1. Girl friday*

        If you increase the fun and activity in your private life, you’ll have more private conversations at home and on your own time when you do have an expectation of privacy. Then having to be professional and not private 1 hundred percent of the time at work won’t bother you so much. People get desensitized to conversations around corrections, firing, and Pips: they don’t really mean as much to other people trying to get their work done as they do to the people involved. I’m assuming you have your own personal cell phone, email, and tablet or computer also.

  2. Anonymous Educator*

    I know a lot of people ask things here because they have problems (why would you ask about something that’s not a problem?), but I’m curious as to the flip side of things. Many of us have been in toxic workplaces, but we’ve also been in great workplaces as well.

    Instead of a “team-building” activity that made you roll your eyes, what was an experience you had at a workplace (past or present) that you felt really built up morale?

    What did a manager who is reasonable do to make you feel supported and appreciated?

    Was there a tradition or practice unique to an organization that you actually thought was cool and not cult-like?

    Good stories!

    1. AdAgencyChick*

      It’s uncommon in ad agencies for CEOs to rise out of the creative departments (art and copywriting); usually it’s an account executive who climbs to the top. One exception was the old CEO of an agency I worked at a few years ago. He was originally a copywriter, and it showed in the way writers at that agency were always treated with respect and honored for our contributions to the process. I knew with him that it wouldn’t just be the “rainmaker” account person who was valued for her contributions, but also the writers who were keeping the clients happy once they were brought into the fold.

    2. KL*

      My group had a pretty fun one last year. There are about 30 of us, so we were broken up into 3 groups and each group had to complete an “escape the room” adventure. Then, we went to a local park for pizza from a great local place. It was nice because we had the whole morning off and it was nice just to solve silly (but still challenging) puzzles and relax in a pretty environment with good food.

      1. Not Maeby But Surely*

        When I was a manager, I wanted to take my team to do an escape room. (It definitely fit with the personalities/culture of the group.) My manager (not the one I rave about in my comment below, FWIW) pooh-poohed the idea, which she had a habit of doing with a lot of my ideas. I’m glad to see that a manager did this somewhere and that it seems to have gone over well.

        1. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

          I did this with my team (it was their idea) I think everyone had a good time, even our team curmudgeon was having fun (along with being grumpy, she quite enjoys puzzles).

          From a managers perspective, it was great to watch everyone helping each other and to see how quickly the team focused in on the puzzles they were good with to do their part for the goal.

          The escape room guy told us at the end that we were one of the most communicative work teams that he’s seen. That really helped reinforce what I had been trying to work on with them.

          1. SoSo*

            We’re currently planning an escape room, but last year around Halloween we organized a department Murder Mystery party on a Friday afternoon with a catered lunch. We bought the package online that was designed for office teams, and everyone was raving about it for days.

      2. Jadelyn*

        My team (small team, only 7 of us) did an escape room together last year, and we had a great time with it! *If* you’ve got the right kind of personalities for it – if you’ve got one, or worse two, domineering know-it-all types then it would probably be a miserable time while they control everything or duke it out between themselves. But if you’re all willing to listen to each other and respect each other’s ideas, it’s really fun.

        1. Parenthetically*

          Yeah, it’s a know your team thing for sure. Escape room thing are almost precisely my idea of hell, but I know there are so many people who love them!!

          1. Gimme Shelter*

            Me too due to the claustrophobia I battle. I love the idea of figuring out clues, though.

          2. A Nickname for AAM*

            I did an escape room with my husband’s work even though I’m claustrophobic. The one we ended up in included my husband’s incredibly accomplished hardcore intense boss…and everyone being handcuffed to the wall until a segment of the puzzle was solved.

            Apparently, the fear of looking like an idiot in front of my husband’s boss was sufficient motivation for me to temporarily overcome that claustrophobia, but I’m assuming that’s not the case for everyone.

        2. Secret Sufferer*

          Please be mindful of you try an escape room. We had a physically oriented one which was technically accessible but the lower physical ability ones made it obvious who picked them and they were not even that fun from a puzzle perspective. People with hidden disabilities that don’t impact their day to day jobs were forced to disclose their disabilities to get out of the event, or power through and suffer later. Way to make people feel included and valuable! Ugh.

        3. Wired Wolf*

          I’ve always thought that an escape room outing with our team would be fun. We do have two individuals who balance each other out by virtue of one overthinking everything to the point of utter ridiculousness and another not thinking enough, and the AM is far too linear for most of us (and the job itself).

      3. OhHellNo*

        I would quit, or file a complaint with HR for harassment, before I’d do an escape room. It’s important think of people’s physical and mental limitations (PTSD for example) before initiating something like this. I’d hope that if a company chose to do something like this, they’d make it completely optional without anyone having to give justification as to why they don’t want to do it.

    3. Higher Ed Database Dork*

      I’m in a really good workplace right now, with a job I enjoy and bosses that are great. One thing that’s really meant a lot to me – and it’s not novel or anything – is weekly team meetings. It’s shocking how beneficial just a plain ol’ weekly team meeting can be. My team consists of 5 people + our manager, and we meet for about an hour each Friday. We get stuff done; we keep each other accountable; we connect and learn from each other.

      Also, while my manager is definitely not a micromanager, he still is involved in what we do and makes sure he stays informed. We are treated like adults and trusted to get our work done, but not just left alone until the shit hits the fan. I’ve had bosses on each side of the spectrum before – a couple of micromanagers who treated us like delinquent toddlers, and then a totally hands-off manager who only got involved when there was a problem, and it was mostly to shout at us because he had no idea what was going on. I really appreciate my current manager who does a good job of balancing being involved vs trusting us, and it works out beautifully.

      I don’t get to telecommute anymore and I could probably make about 20k more somewhere else, but good managers and a good team are super important to me, and it keeps me around.

      1. Turquoisecow*

        Yes! I know a lot of people hate meetings, but I like that they make me feel like what I’m doing is not in a silo, and is connected to the rest of the company. I pushed HARD for weekly meetings at a prior dysfunctional workplace, and several managers disagreed, probably because they were in so many (useless) meetings that they felt it was a waste of time.

      2. SavannahMiranda*

        I second the under-valued appreciation of weekly team meetings.

        There is a tremendous amount to be said for getting updates on major projects, having people held accountable in front of the group (productively, not persecutingly), being accountable oneself, and even simply being apprised of each other’s vacation schedules if nothing else.

        When I know and understand what my team is doing, and what my role in that is, and I’m in the loop on information as simple as whether Wakeen will be around on Tuesday to sign That Document, then I believe myself to be appreciated, and I appreciate others.

        The key of course is to keep the meetings punchy, short, productive, and then get out. One of our managers even had these meetings at 8:30 am on Monday mornings. We all hated-loved him for this. At 8:20 every Monday I was convinced of his cruel bastardtude. But by 8:45 when the meeting was over and I had a clear-eyed view of the plan for the week and my place in the plan, I knew my contribution mattered. I appreciated it and I was appreciated.

        Sometimes simple, old-school methods like weekly meetings are vastly underrated. They are not flashy. They don’t come with schwag. They don’t result in catered lunches or foosball tables. But done right, they are effective towards convincing employees they are appreciated and they count.

        1. JustaTech*

          I was surprised how excited I was when my group got a new manager (one of our own was promoted and our old boss demoted) and the new boss had agendas for our weekly meeting besides “someone will present data”.
          There was actual discussion of what was happening in the company, what the direction was for our group, minutia like when the next fire drill was scheduled, all that jazz. (And then data.) It made me feel like we were working at a real company.

        2. Atalanta0jess*

          YUP. Good managers I’ve had made time for me, understood my work, and gave me honest feedback. They made an effort to share positive feedback. They gave me freedom and flexibility.

          That’s it! No bells or whistles.

        3. Higher Ed Database Dork*

          “Done right” is definitely the key. We keep our meetings focused and brief, and it works out great.

          We just hired a new person from a different team, and they were having one-hour meetings DAILY. Useless overkill. I kind of get the quick 10-min stand-up meeting thing, but we’re not working in a fast-paced development environment like that that would warrant those. And on the other end of the spectrum, I had to plead with my former boss for even monthly team meetings, of which he would not even bother coming to 3/4 of the time.

      3. Mad Baggins*

        I send a weekly report via email to my boss. It helps keep me on track, reflect what I’ve done and where I stand, and communicate about upcoming deadlines/absences, etc.
        It’s also helpful come evaluation season because I can look at my reports for the last # weeks and see at a glance what I’ve accomplished.

    4. Not Maeby But Surely*

      A couple of things that came to mind, all from the same manager. (Who is no longer at my company, dangit!)
      One time I went into his office to warn him that he might receive some calls from prospective employers. I explained I was looking to take a second (part time) job and I didn’t want him to worry that I was planning to go to a competitor. He thanked me for letting him know, but also said, basically, let’s look at your pay here, let me talk to the higher ups to see if we can do anything – how much would you need to make in order to not have to get a second job? And he succeeded in getting me a really good raise. I’m tearing up remembering how much that meant. Same manager also made a point to tell us to take reasonable breaks (as opposed to no breaks) when we were so swamped we were all burning out. Other managers’ opinions were that we were so busy, no one should be taking breaks, but when you’re in a mentally taxing job + working on computer screens all day, that’s not the best approach for everyone. Man, that guy was a really good manager.

      2. Higher Ed Database Dork*

        That’s awesome! Sounds like my current manager. He’s really good about making sure we aren’t burned out and can live our lives outside of work. He also got me a great promotion + raise 6 months into my job because I had taken on so much additional work, he figured I should be paid for it. And he made it come through in a reasonable time frame. That meant the world to me.

    5. Midlife Tattoos*

      I work for an extremely large company, and the most amazing thing about it is its culture. They don’t pay lip service to culture, it’s lived at every level of the organization. I feel completely supported by my director and GrandBoss. I love my job and wouldn’t trade it.

      1. Kim, aka Ranavain*

        I would LOVE to hear more about this. I feel like there are lots of ways to build a good culture, but fewer ways to preserve that culture even as you get really, really big.

    7. Susan Calvin*

      Our quarterly ‘listen to the CEO talk about sales numbers’ event is surprisingly nice because it’s
      a) outside regular work hours, thus doesn’t interfere with your workload
      b) bundled with actually interesting project and product updates (in which a sense of humour is encouraged)
      c) counted as work (none of us are technically hourly, but we track time for billing and bonus calculation)
      d) catered (inlcuding open bar)

    8. Ladylike*

      For me, the number 1 thing that makes me feel safe and supported, is when Management deals with toxic employees and weeds them out! I’ve worked in organizations that will roll their collective eyes and look the other way when employees are abusive, rude, and impossible to deal with. But the best organization I’ve ever worked for would follow the steps necessary to remove these individuals, and it made all the difference in the world!

      1. Xarcady*

        I ended up leaving a job I really liked because a manager in a different department was horrible to everyone in the company. She’d pass by my desk and then go and tell my manager I wasn’t using the right software for the job. My manager would come running over–I *was* using the right software, just not for the job she thought I was doing.

        Someone would make a tiny mistake. Fixing it would have meant picking up a pen and writing 5 numbers. Instead, she’d wait until there were witnesses around, march over to the culprit’s desk, loudly inform them that they hadn’t written the number (which would have been in 5 other places in the folder) and loom over them until they wrote the number in the right place.

        She told one of her direct reports that she didn’t like her dress and not to wear it to work again.

        Managers were asked to poll their direct reports about switching from weekly to every-other-week paychecks. She lied and told the owner no one in her department want to switch. She never asked any of them.

        If you complained about her to the owner, you were told to stand up to her. But standing up to her just meant she bullied you more. I found out the hard way.

        In my exit interview, the owner kept asking what my “real” reason for leaving was, because she couldn’t believe that I was leaving because of this manager. But my position was changing and I was going to have to deal with her daily about workflow and I just couldn’t deal with that.

        So, yeah, management that deals with office bullies is a great thing!

      2. Treecat*

        Ugh, yes, this is so important and one of the huge downsides to my place of employment, which has a tenure system that means it’s extremely difficult to get rid of people once they get to that point. Unfortunately there have been some people who have played nice with others until they got their tenure, then turned into horrible people to work for. I’m incredibly lucky that I am not supervised by any of these people, and their dysfunction is pretty well contained, but for those unlucky few who are stuck under these people it’s a nightmare.

        The rest of us do our best to support the people we know have the shit bosses. I really, really wish our org would take a good hard look at this and take some concrete steps to change this but… they don’t. Sigh.

      3. Turquoisecow*

        I worked for roughly three years with a woman who was terrible at her job. It took her three to four times longer than anyone else to do simple tasks, she did them wrong, she routinely ignored instructions because she didn’t agree with them, instead doing tasks a longer way. She didn’t trust the computer to make decisions even when the program was proven right. She could barely USE the computer.

        I had multiple discussions with people several layers above me about this – her incompetence was in no way a secret. Everyone agreed. But she stayed on. She survived several mass layoffs. There were no consequences.

        It was incredibly demoralizing. All the rest of us could focus on was the negativity of this woman’s poor performance. Attempts to improve her performance failed. We had to work around it. If they’d just actually gotten rid of her, it would have been better, because then I would have been able to take tasks and complete them in a few hours instead of having her sit on them for several days.

        1. Khlovia*

          I once worked for a small company that had a *stated policy* that they would never fire anybody.

          Don’t do that.

      4. Higher Ed Database Dork*

        Ahhh this is so huge. My last couple of departments did not deal with toxic people/poor employees and it was just so demoralizing. The most recent one had an Office Jerk of colossal magnitude, and management kept giving the excuse that they just couldn’t lose his “institutional knowledge” (more precious than diamonds here in higher ed), so they let him bully everyone, do crappy work, and barely show up during the week. But of course demanded we pick up his slack.

      5. lady bird*

        +1. The biggest positive morale change I’ve witnessed at work was when a toxic employee was let go after an HR investigation. Speak up about these people, don’t just let them get away with being terrible/creepy/abusive!

    9. Will Out Myself With This One*

      My specific group has an “Olympics” every year, with $X/person sponsored by the company. It was at first very bro-y with sports and athletics-based activities, which was great for newer employees but sucked for older or injured employees. I got involved with the planning and we introduced a number of thinking-type activities, including a building challenge, Giant Jenga, and a relay race that incorporated puzzles and trivia-type questions instead of straight races. We get feedback every year on the event and tailor the next year’s event accordingly, and because our management has seen what a huge morale booster it is, they give all attendees a few hours of paid time to attend so it’s not as much of a drain for people to attend. We also cater the event and ask people to let those with dietary restrictions eat first so they can get a plate before foods are cross-contaminated. The managers for the most part all attend too, and encourage people to take a break and attend.

      1. Kim, aka Ranavain*

        Those accommodations are so important! I worked somewhere that was always trying to do events, and they tended to fail because people were busy and managers didn’t prioritize them (aka, encourage people to attend, attend themselves, and/or make workload or deadline adjustments that would allow them to attend).

        These sorts of events have a real impact on the organization! Getting to know people outside your immediate team, learning more about how the org at large functions, building relationships… all things that definitely made my job easier, and that reflected in the support I was able to give my team. And yet, I’d ask other people why they didn’t go, and they’d say stuff like “we have work to do.” Which, like, thanks buddy, I also do work here…

        1. Will Out Myself With This One*

          Exactly! If there’s something that needs to be done by 5PM that day then okay, but really, a few hours outside hanging out isn’t going to hurt you. Nobody is so important that the company cannot function without them for 1 afternoon!

      2. Det. Charles Boyle*

        Wow, this whole event sounds very thoughtful and like a real morale-booster.

      3. Kindling*

        Yeah, as someone with an allergy, when people really try to make sure there’s something you can eat, it’s a big morale booster. We have team pot lucks where people are supposed to label allergens and I really appreciate the people who actually do it (it’s not really enforced – I would appreciate it if it were mandatory to list the ingredients).

    10. Akcipitrokulo*

      We used to have monthly sprints. This meant that the retrospective was on the last working day of the month. So we’d have the retrospective meeting – which was always constructive with positives, negatives and often some laughter – then all go out for lunch together. Which was lovely – and also always on payday so we weren’t skint!

      I’d been here only a few days when we had the first one, and got really stressed when I realised there was no way we’d be back within an hour… but then realised all the managers + big boss were there. End of sprint lunch was expected to be a long one, and everyone was invited.

      It really helped!

      Still do it, but sprint pattern has changed so it’s one we actually have to plan for once a month instead of its just being there!

    11. Ali G*

      My first boss was awesome. At our org it was just him, the CEO and me. We were tangentially related to another organization and at some point I was promoted to a higher title than some of the workers at the related org. Their manager raged at my boss, and he stood up to them for me. Then when we merged with the related org a few years later, the higher ups all agreed we would have the same (lower title) that the other employees had.
      My boss called me into his office and explained that I was not being demoted, it was just about making the transition as smooth as possible for everyone. And in fact, I was getting a substantial raise because, his words: “I’ll be damned if the only woman in the organization is making less money than the rest of the staff and doing the same level of work.”
      I was heartbroken when he retired.

    12. Nervous Accountant*

      I know its weird coming from me, given what I’ve posted here before, but there have been good times over the last few years here, esp after the 1st year—-

      -we keep our events pretty simple–happy hours/lunch/dinner for holidays, Thanksgiving potluck. Surprise baby showers (for both mothers and fathers) & wedding gifts. The Secret santa/White elephant exchanges are fun as well. There’s no pressure to contribute or participate. Simply not going hasn’t stopped anyone from being promoted or being well-liked.

      -Monthly birthday celebrations. It’s not a surprise b/c it happens every month, but we get cupcakes, gift cards. It’s a nice gesture

      -for me personally, my manager has been really great overall and he is a HUGE part of what’s keeping me here. We may disagree on things but I’m not afraid of disagreement if it were say someone else I’ve worked with. Out of all the other managers/team leaders here, I feel like he’s the most fair out of all of them. He has his faults, as any human, but I genuinely like working with him and it’s not b/c he’s not as bad as others.

      -I wrote it in another post of my own but when I had to take time off for my dad’s sudden funeral & following issues after, I didn’t have to worry about being without a paycheck. Granted this wasn’t a grand huge gesture like someone donating their PTO (this just came to mind after reading the post earlier this week about employees donating their PTO to their coworkers going through difficulties) but it was a small comfort.

      And I just realized that none of these are “unique” but they are things that make me happy here.

    13. Is pumpkin a vegetable?*

      This is such a great topic! I work for a CEO who truly has his employees’ best interests at heart. I’m in HR, so that is important to me. We are in manufacturing, and he completely supports our efforts to be as safe as possible. Whenever anyone suggests a safety improvement, he supports it 100%. He’s put a lot of money into it, as a matter of fact. He really takes all other suggestions seriously, and want our company to be a great place to work. We pay in the 75th percentile for our area, too which is nice.

    14. T3k*

      My last job was a short-term contract but I never felt like a contractor even though I worked with many employees, other than not allowed in certain meetings and benefits. My boss was also really chill and was trying to help me find a new job before my contract ended.

      But the biggest kicker was in all my past jobs I never felt appreciated. Then, one week my boss was unexpectedly out, I was barely holding the team together (only about 3 months into the position at this point) that it felt like that scene where Jack Sparrow is sailing into port on a sinking boat. I felt like I’d done poorly but when my boss got back in, one of the other employees said right in front of our team that I had been a big help getting them through the week (though we were of course very happy the boss was back). It felt so nice to actually hear that others appreciated my help. I miss working there.

    15. Valor*

      My very first manager recognized a problem in which two staff members would frequently ask myself and another person to cover their responsibilities for them. The other person and I thought we were being helpful, but my manager really clearly explained that we were enabling the other two and not helping them learn to better manage their time. It was a really helpful bit of management that I have incorporated into my own style, and which has really structured my approach to teams ever since.

    16. Tuxedo Cat*

      I think sharing a meal is nice thing to do. It’s simple but effective.

      Hearing you’re doing a good job and why is always nice, too.

    17. The German Chick*

      I appreciate that my company is loyal to us employees. A year ago, management performed a market study to assess if our salaries were up to industry-standard because we did not attract the right applicants. They were not. Our CEO could have assumed that those of us who have been with the company for some time are happy with the salary the way it was (I actually was, it was pretty good already). Instead, they opted for complete transparency, and decided to raise everyone’s salary to the industry standard. This meant a 15% increase for me and my colleagues. I have never heard of a company with this kind of integrity before. It made me proud to work for them.

    18. RabidChild*

      I think I have not even seen what my best managers have done for me. I have worked in some f’d up places, and am grateful for those times a manager basically took one for the team and shielded us from upper management’s dysfunction.

      One that sticks out in my memory is the place where the HR director regularly scanned the job searching sites, looking for emoloyees’ resumes and evidence that they were actively job searching. She’d then take it to the CEO. I know this happened because it happened to me! Not to mention, my resume was anonymous but she was able to guess based on the job and company description i used.

      The company was def circling the proverbial drain, with quarter after quarter of bad earnings, and I had just come off a year being unemployed, so I was still keeping options open. Well, my manager did quite the tap dance to save my bacon, and I will never forget it (we are friends to this day).

      1. Kim, aka Ranavain*

        Holy hell, what a nightmare. Company is circling the drain, and rather than doing any work to prevent that, HR is spending their time snooping for hints of job-searching, and then making the CEO and your manager spend probably a half day of THEIR time dealing with this completely pointless nonsense. What was the result? Status Quo! Everyone wasted their time and absolutely nothing was better than it was before.

        I’m glad your manager went to bat for you (as they well should have!) but dang, that sounds like a terrible place.

      2. Armyofcuddlebunnies*

        At my first non-dysfunctional company job, I applied for a new position elsewhere in the company. I check the box that said “Do not contact my current manager” Then my manager found out.

        And then, he called me in the office and offered to get some of the team to give me practice interviews so that I would be ready and present my best. He also offered to call the hiring manager and talk me up.

        I didn’t get the job, but the next time I applied for a new position I made sure to check YES contact my manager (and again he lined up some people to give me practice interviews)

    19. whistle*

      My company does our Winter Holiday luncheon right. It is during the work day, so everyone is on the clock. There is an open bar for an hour or so and then we all sit down to a multicourse meal. We are given a couple of choices such as entrée and dessert to select about a week before the event. Those with dietary restrictions can make special requests. Drinks are served throughout the meal if anyone wants them. The CEO makes a speech thanking everyone and then we can all go home or continue to hang out if desired. There is no pressure to drink or hang out forever, but people who want to do those things can. There is nothing mentioned about religion or specific holidays. It’s lovely!

    20. Ann Perkins*

      We really don’t have any events that are unusual. We do a white elephant amongst our small staff at Christmas and there’s usually a team appreciation lunch or dinner in December as well where we’re all taken to a meal. Birthdays and workplace anniversaries are celebrated with a monthly cake, nothing special. We don’t even do wedding or baby showers. It gets too tricky in case someone gets forgotten, or whether men should also get baby showers, etc.

      For me, the main thing is that I know my boss has my back and wants me to be happy here. He’s the head honcho so that attitude trickles down. I’m in a compliance role and if I am dealing with a tricky situation, he wants to be in the loop so that if somebody comes complaining to him directly, he already knows what’s going on and can back me to the complainer. The fact that he’s intentional about this speaks volumes.

      We generally try to get a good feel for personality during the interview process as well and are largely successful in not hiring gossipy or toxic types. So there’s generally just not much office drama or politics and it’s wonderfully refreshing.

    22. KMB213*

      My last workplace was great at making us all feel appreciated. None of the things were particularly unique, but we had:

      1) Bagel Fridays every Friday
      2) Two holiday parties – one during the work day just for the Firm, one in the evening for the Firm, clients, etc.
      3) Bowling twice a year
      4) Happy hours paid for by the Firm (not at a specific/regular interval, but usually about six times a year)
      5) A Thanksgiving meal on the Wednesday before Thanksgiving (usually Mexican)
      6) Some sort of goodbye part for everyone who left the Firm (happy hour, ice cream party, etc.)
      7) Birthday lunches for the team you worked with, paid for by the Firm (small teams, usually fewer than five people)
      8) Baby or bridal showers for men and women having children or getting married

      On a side note, my manager there was awesome, as well. Among other things, she always advocated for me with the higher-ups, which I really appreciated.

      Of course, this was in addition to good pay and benefits, but these little perks really made going to work every morning much easier – I actually liked pretty much everyone I worked with and most of us were in a good mood most of the time!

    23. Detective Right-All-The-Time*

      My CEO is incredibly approachable and available. He’s only in my office maybe once a week? But I regularly see him chatting with employees in the lobby and he’ll always say hello if he passes you in the hallway. He also calls every. single. employee. on their birthdays. It’s not even just a “happy birthday, ok bye!” – he has a conversation with you, asks about what’s going on in your work, and tells you how much he appreciates everything that you do for our mission. He has a near perfect approval rating on Glassdoor and it’s well earned – he makes you feel valuable just by being willing to talk to you like you’re an interesting human being and not just a worker bee.

    24. Anonymosity*

      Exjob did me a disservice in a few ways, mostly with the compartmentalization. It was very hard to learn anything new there since everyone was so walled off from everyone else. But I really appreciated the emphasis on actually taking your PTO, with which they were fairly generous. Also, they did NOT want you to come in if you were sick. They were good about flexible scheduling and had WFH set up very well. Of course, your mileage varied with individual managers, but overall the company had a very good work-life balance. Plus, they paid very well for this area. I will have to leave to find a salary like it again.

      When I wanted to take a long UK vacation, OldBoss was totally supportive of it. I really needed that break because I hadn’t ever had a vacation long enough for me to actually relax. She also would let me go early before holidays since it was very dead in the office but pay me anyway. :)

      I hope I can find a job with this kind of care for employees. It really motivated me to work hard because I wasn’t resentful of conditions or management. Plus, I was able to stay well-rested and that helped me keep on top of everything when I got busy. I wish all US employers would realize this!

    25. Ann Furthermore*

      We all went to a baseball game last month, which included our tickets and $20 to spend on food or merchandise. That was really fun. The office is downtown, and the stadium is about a 20 minute walk, so it was easy to get to. That was during my first week. I walked back to the office with my boss, and he said that the team does something like that every quarter, and he asked if I had any ideas. I said I was not a good person to ask, as it’s been many years since I’ve spent too much time downtown. He said there’s a place where you can do axe throwing (!) which he thought sounded fun but didn’t think HR would agree. LOL. I was not even aware that was a thing. And I now know what I’m going to plan for my husband’s 50th birthday in November.

      I am seriously starting to love my new employer. It’s an open office, which I don’t love, but I’m getting used to it and I’ve come up with my own ways to deal with the change from cubicle land. They provide free drinks and snacks (double-edged sword…those damn mini Twix bars call my name all day long), everyone has a standing desk, and my manager is fine with WFH one day a week, or more, if there’s a specific reason for it — like this week, I’m taking a virtual class, so it’s just easier to do it from home than to try and call in from my desk, or try to book a huge block of time in a conference room. Best of all, they treat PTO the way it’s supposed to be treated. I took the Friday before Memorial Day off, but worked a half a day so I wouldn’t get too far into the hole on PTO. When I tried to enter 4 hours in the system, I was told that as a salaried employee, if I worked at all that day, then I got paid for that day. I realize that’s the way it’s supposed to be handled, but this is the first place I’ve ever worked where they have the systems set up to prevent you from entering fewer than 8 hours in the system. Everywhere else it’s been frowned on to take a half day off without using any PTO.

      1. Fact & Fiction*

        Are you by chance in the Midwest? I work in a big baseball city with its stadium downtown (our most famous tourist attraction is also there and just got a big makeover) and am hearing all kinds of things about axe-throwing lately. Sounds both fun and terrifying!

        1. Ann Furthermore*

          No, I’m further west. There are 2 places here to do axe-throwing. I don’t know anyone who has tried it, but it’s the perfect thing for my husband’s birthday. If you met him, you’d know that axe-throwing seems like something conceived with him in mind.

          I looked at the website for one place, and it’s set up kind of like a batting cage, with aisles closed off with fencing, presumably to keep axes from flying around and hitting anyone.

        2. I Wrote This in the Bathroom*

          My East Coast friends just went axe-throwing. Might be a new trend!

      2. I Wrote This in the Bathroom*

        OMG I was just telling someone today about my OldJob that did this. Toxic job and a toxic dept director otherwise, but man that was the best idea he’d possibly ever had. He’d give everyone in the department the afternoon off, give us tickets and the $20 food/drink tokens, we’d drive down to the stadium and spend a late summer evening together as a group. We were a large company that had grown terribly quickly from a small startup, so the game doubled as a reunion for the people who’d used to work together, but had now been assigned to different teams on different floors and had not seen each other in months. Not gonna lie, everyone typically spent their $20 on beer, then walk around and chat with coworkers to catch up on things, all afternoon until we’d all sober up. Apparently there was also a game going on :)

    26. Forking Great Username*

      I worked retail for a long time, and the big thing in that field is having managers who have your back when a customer is upset. But a fun team building activity they did was occasionally having special days where whenever someone hit a goal, they would come find you and let you choose a random reward. Rewards included them buying you a pop, them doing a silly dance or putting on a funny costume for you, getting to leave your shift a tiny bit early, a slice of pizza, a high five, etc. Each manager had a cup full of papers and you randomly picked a prize – they controlled what options were in their cup, so they could opt out of the more embarrassing ones – though I don’t think any of them ever chose to.

      If a department met a larger goal, each person in it got to “pie” our store manager at the next meeting.

      These probably are eye roll worthy to some people, but we had a good time with it, and no one was ever pressured to participate. If you weren’t down for the silly prizes you’d just get a thank you and be treated to a drink or snack.

    27. KR*

      We have done top golf twice so far for our team building activity and it’s a lot of fun. Food and drinks, and if you don’t want to golf you can just hang out on the couch and socialize. We had a nice reward where we take our families out to eat and use our corporate card and that was really nice because you could choose when and where to go.

    28. Curious Cat*

      I genuinely love the effort my organization puts into “team” activities! A certain amount is budgeted each year for our team activities, and they range anywhere from going out to Friday lunches together, to happy hour, to attending a baseball game, to going to a winery for the day. They’re fun, low-stress & provide such a great setting and opportunity to get to know coworkers and still have space to be discussing work-related matters outside of a meeting.

      I also had a really lovely supervisor a few years back at an old internship who remains one of my greatest references. She was so kind, so supportive (think like an older, gentle, grandmotherly woman). When I would hand in a draft of a press release she would make the necessary edits and sit down with me and explain each and every edit & the reason why she did so. She also only edited in purple pen because she knew that red pen can come across as angry and harsh! She was so kind & I learned so much from her.

      1. A Bag of Jedi Mind Tricks*

        Food is a big deal where I work. The managers order breakfast and lunches for the floor on a regular basis. One time, one of the managers had on sandals and for that “infraction”, the Head of the floor told him he had to buy Pizza for the Floor. Which he happily did. We also had a guy who, as part of him celebrating his German heritage, ordered a German feast for the floor for lunch. And just this week we had a Baking contest.

    29. Hope*

      When I came back to work after a medical procedure, I was still recovering but well enough to be at work most of the time, and I’d used up all of my PTO post-surgery, my boss telling me that if I ever needed to go home, that was fine and to not worry about making up the hours, and really meaning that. It was a relief, because there were days where I did need to go home before I passed out from the exhaustion of just moving around the amount needed to do my non-physical job. Boss did similarly for a coworker who dealt with a couple of family deaths that happened within a few weeks of each other, and for other coworkers who had medical procedures. Boss gets that we have a life outside of work and lets us have the time we need in unusual circumstances.

      At another place I worked, we had an unofficial competition for who could bring the coolest toy for the Toys for Tots donation. Our grandboss would always choose to display the coolest toy as the centerpiece at the potluck table, which made it the “winner”. It didn’t have to be an expensive toy, just a cool one. I won one year with a $20 stuffed dinosaur.

    30. Let's Talk About Splett*

      Summer hours! A company I worked for about 7-10 years ago “closed” at 12:30 every Friday between the 4th of July and Labor Day, and hourly employees were still paid for 8 hours.

      The office was located downtown so on at least one Friday each summer my group of friends from there would go out for lunch & drinks somewhere fun and take public transportation home at the normal COB time. It was a blast!

    31. Yah*

      Axe throwing went well with my toxic team. I think it was the axe throwing bit that made it fun. (But we threw at targets, not each other.)

      1. Sunshine on a Cloudy Day*

        At an old company and incredibly dysfunctional team did a thing where they worked with a professional chef to prep and cook a nice meal for the team. We all joked that it seemed like a bad idea to have that team do stuff around one another that involved knives.

    32. OtterB*

      There are a number of good things about my current workplace, but I’ll highlight our PTO. We have separate bins of sick/personal time and vacation time. Vacation time begins with 10 days for new hires and adds a day per year to a max of 20 days, which is decent but not exceptional. Sick/personal time is the same for everyone and is 1 day/month. The thing I really like about it is that the sick/personal time is explicitly usable for your own illness or those of family members, but also for, as my boss puts it, things that make your life easier. So renewing your driver’s license or getting your car inspected, going to a parent-teacher meeting or school performance of a kid – all of those are legitimate use for personal leave, letting you keep vacation for actual longer vacations instead of a half day here or a half day there. We are also usually closed (paid, with no use of vacation or personal time) between Christmas and New Year’s.

    33. FarmGirl*

      My favorite boss always encouraged different opinions. If I disagreed but didn’t feel it was worth disagreeing, he would catch me out (because no poker face). He would demand that I tell him my opinion. As he said, I might not agree with you, but if I had a different opinion, someone else might, too, and he woold be able to counter that if he knew it was coming. But he would listen with an open mind and take that into account..
      I love my current job and company, but they are NOT like that.

      1. Kim, aka Ranavain*

        I feel like it’s essential for orgs to actually listen to ideas and disagreement from all levels of staff, but so many of them are bad in their execution. In part because I think a lot of people are bad with what to do with bad ideas – how do you make someone understand that you DO value their contribution and you DO want them to tell you future ideas, but that this idea Is Bad and should be abandoned – without demoralizing. Even just being able to raise your hand and say “I disagree” and have your opinion respected and considered. I think some companies are afraid of getting into the weeds with staff, so they declare what’s happening, do a token bit of listening, and then just re-iterate the same talking points they used when they introduced the topic that those folks obviously didn’t find convincing. It’s a tricky balance.

    34. Scubacat*

      One of my clients had a baby, who suddenly died at seven weeks old. My supervisor sent the grieving mother flowers at the company’s expense. He also gave approval for me to attend the funeral for Baby on company time. And I didn’t have to use a vacation day/sick day/ log it as PTO.

      The depth of human compassion that my workplace showed was amazing.

    35. JanetM*

      I’m in technically a temp position — my permanent job title is Administrative Support Assistant III and my temporary formal title is Administrative Coordinator I (a couple of steps up). The first time my day-to-day manager (as opposed to my org-chart manager) introduced me as “our new project manager,” I just lit up. He’s been good about providing constructive criticism (“here are ways you can control meetings”) and praise (“Good meeting. Well done.”).

    36. blue canary*

      I work for a small nonprofit that really values its employees. We have a laid-back atmosphere and a lot of camaraderie, but nobody’s pushed to be social who doesn’t want to be. Great work/life balance too – nobody’s nitpicking PTO, if you have to bring your kid into the office for a few hours it’s no problem (as long as they’re not disruptive), etc. There’s an actual committee focused on workplace culture and how to make it better, and it’s open to anyone. I love this place.

    37. A Non E. Mouse*

      This sounds silly but I really like a good potluck event.

      There is one here that’s technically for each department – so my department coordinates within itself to have our own set of food, Accounting does their own coordination, etc. – but in practice each year you visit X department for so-and-so’s world famous cheese dip, and Y department for those cookies that melt in your mouth, etc.

      My guess is the day is a loss productivity-wise, but it’s a great team building exercise. Who knew the kind of grumpy guy in receiving made a mean pot of chili! That kind of thing.

      1. Windchime*

        My group’s specialty is breakfast potluck. Everyone contributes and seems to really enjoy it. We all look forward to Karen’s cinnamon rolls or Fred’s cheese-y potatoes. It’s a great way to kick off the day. I think we do it 2-3 times a year. We also go to lunch (totally voluntary!) as group. Next week, the weather should be nice so we are walking down to the food truck area and eating lunch outside.

    38. JustaTech*

      In my group-that-was (most everyone has gone now) at my current job, I always appreciated that the higher-ups would work in the lab, and do the crummy boring jobs and take the late night or early morning time points. It really made us feel like a team. It was also nice the time everyone had to stay late that not only did we get pizza (carefully ordered so everyone could eat it), but rather than eating alone at our desks, we sat in the conference room and played GeoGuessr together (all you have is Google Street view, what country are you in?).

      That boss also noticed I was seriously underpaid for the market and got me a big raise when I didn’t even know I was underpaid.

    39. I'm A Little Teapot*

      I had an amazing manager at last job, if they hadn’t switched my manager I’d still be there. She was really good at being hands off, up until you needed her for something then she was really hands on.

    40. Mike C.*

      Standing on the main taxiway at PAE with all the involved employees (mechanics, engineers, managers, support, pretty much everyone), listening to air traffic control radios and watching two chase planes maneuver themselves such that they catch up with a quickly accelerating 787-9 as it took flight for the first time.

      We can be a cynical bunch and some of us had worked for years to contribute to that project, but that was the coolest morale boost I’ve ever experienced.

    41. I Wrote This in the Bathroom*

      I love this question, and am going to read all the responses, and likely take notes.

      The one experience I had at a past workplace that built up morale was when, at an OldJob, we had a major production release that spanned all groups in the department because everything from the back end to the front end was being rolled out. Because we were a 24-7 operation, we had to schedule it at a time when all plants could afford to be down, which happened to be Sunday evening through Monday morning. IIRC, I was scheduled to be in the war room from ten PM on Sunday to six AM Monday. Our boss was there when I came in, and was still there when I left. He stayed with us the entire time, both to intervene if something went badly wrong, and to provide moral support. This was so contrary to every manager I’d had before him, that it affected my opinion of him in a big and positive way. I’d had a manager before him who’d sent me in to do a production software upgrade on a Saturday, and when an old computer at a user’s site turned out to be incompatible with the upgrade and crashed, I called him to give him an update and also to see who he’d recommend I needed to loop in to get that resolved, and he said “I am at a ball game, figure something out, don’t call me back, bye, talk to ya Monday”.

      This first (“the good”) manager told me during my performance review later that year, that he saw our work as being on the front lines, and that you needed to know the people you were out there with, in the sense of who would cover your back vs who’d shoot you in the back? He definitely put a lot of effort into being the first type himself. Not a team-building event or a tradition, but this is what I remember best of that job.

    42. Tuna Casserole*

      For our last staff meeting, the boss took us all to a little bistro and bought everyone fancy coffees. Discussing mission statements is more fun if you have whipped cream on your drink.

    43. Erika22*

      One thing a friend’s company does is something called “donut dates,” where once or twice a month, anyone who wants to participate is randomly paired up with someone else in the office, and they’re given a small amount of petty cash to go out and get a donut (or coffee or whatever) and take like half an hour to get to know each other. Super low stress, great for getting to know people you don’t work with, and a free coffee! I’ve always loved this idea and want to implement it at my next job (though lbr I just want an excuse to get a donut.)

    44. N Twello*

      In terms of the supervisory role, a good manager or team lead:
      – Respects each employee and helps them be the best they can be.
      – Provides employees with what they need to be productive.
      – Supports employees when they have problems or face roadblocks.
      – Is a sounding board and collaborator when the employee needs one.
      – Sets clear expectations and goals, and then monitors progress.
      – Knows their employees and responds to individuals, rather than applying a cookie-cutter approach to all.
      – Helps foster team spirit and respect among the team.
      – Ensures that team members are supporting each other as appropriate.
      – Provides vision (this is usually a cascading vision from the top, formulated for relevance at each level).
      – Ensures that there is good communication.

    45. Tau*

      Something cool my company does is giving us two “free” days at the end of each sprint. The idea is that you can work on whatever you want as long as it’s related to the job somehow – examples would be doing an online course, or working on a feature you’d really like to see but that’s very low priority. At the end of it, the company orders pizza, people present what they’ve worked on. It’s hugely fun and there’s been some amazing – and amazingly useful! – things that have come out of it, which ordinarily just wouldn’t have been possible because no manager would let you spare the two days to just play around with an idea and see if you could get it to work.

      (Also, this really shouldn’t be unusual but – I’ve been pretty ill recently and am super-appreciating how supportive my manager has been about me missing two weeks and then constantly needing to rush off in the middle of the day for doctor’s appointments or leave early because I wasn’t feeling well. My old company was a lot less flexible about things – I still remember how they fussed about me needing to have surgery during my probation period.)

      1. Tau*

        Oh, another morale booster I adored was when the company said they’d buy up to €15 worth of office plants for each of us, here’s the gardening store website, pick what you want. My desk has been green ever since.

    46. Autumnheart*

      Team-building exercises: a few years ago, we had a big push toward “culture training” that was deemed too expensive and time-consuming before it was rolled out to the whole company, but my division went through it. I knew someone on another team who’d attended and asked what it was like, and he said, “It was pretty intense. There was some crying.” Of course I was like, crying?! D: That doesn’t sound good.

      So we attended, and the exercise in question turned out to be a round robin sort of thing where everyone stood in a circle. One person stood in the middle, and called on another person to enter the circle. Then each person said something that they appreciated about the other. It could be a professional thing, a work-appropriate personal thing (e.g. “I really like John’s sense of humor and how he always makes people laugh”). Then the person who was called on would stay in the circle, and call on someone else. Repeat until you go through the whole circle. It was time-consuming because we have a pretty big team, so even spending only one minute per person, it still took a couple hours.

      And yeah, it *was* a little intense because people put a lot of thought into what they said. And there were some moments where people got a little verklempt, because it is actually pretty rare when someone takes time to really say something nice and sincere, that they observed about you that maybe you weren’t even aware of. It was actually a nice and thoughtful exercise, very validating.

      1. Autumnheart*

        (This wasn’t the entirety of the culture training. It was one exercise over a 3-day program.)

    47. Frankie Bergstein*

      We were at a celebration for someone, and our organization’s leader was there. Someone started suggesting funny awards within our department and described how it had been successful at managing one of their large projects. Our department leader got out their phone and said, “I’m taking notes!”. We also get a lot of opportunities for professional development (training, meeting one-on-one with the department leader, getting set up with a mentor). Feeling invested in feels GREAT!

    48. Kat Em*

      I used to work in a place with super dysfunctional management overall, but they did a few things right. Something that always made me feel great is that they were super supportive of employees who volunteered in the community on their own. Our director made several in-kind donations towards projects I was doing with neighborhood kids, and there was no red tape about it. Just “Hey, can I have some disposable gloves for a neighborhood cleanup I’m doing with middle schoolers in two weeks?” “Of course, how many boxes do you need?”

      Sure, there was usually a “Do you mind if we mention this in the monthly newsletter?” attached, but no negative consequences if the answer was no. And even though we were all encouraged to get involved with the company’s charitable foundation, there was never a sense of it being in competition with things people were doing out on their own. It was a terrible place to work in many ways, but that always made me feel appreciated.

    49. Head of Talent Acquisition*

      Here are some examples that were memorable that built up morale:
      1) Impromptu karaoke in the common space
      2) potluck whoever wanted to participate. At one company, over 100 people participated.
      3) Bocce Ball
      4) Italian dinners
      5) laser tag
      6) dinners that recognized each person’s strengths
      As for feeling supported and appreciated, having regular 1:1’s, weekly meetings, going over goals and milestones, and encouraging growth in a positive manner.
      At one company, I thought that it was awesome that the management team took time to know everyone by name and what they did. One person in particular stood out because of his management style, Andy Grove, who I met while working at Intel many years ago; and the leadership team at Quantum, who I had the opportunity to work with closely in my early days out of college were very down-to-earth and had a very caring attitude about all the employees.

    50. Aphrodite*

      What a great question!

      I work at a community college in the adult ed division. I came back from a Leave of Absence of 18 months in a main campus department and got this job when it opened up. Unfortunately, there were a lot of circumstances of which I was unaware and for which several people made it a point to “punish” or treat me terribly when they could. As these were primarily superiors there wasn’t much I could do. I cried a lot at home but refused to quit because I knew how tough it was out there and because the benefits are fabulous.

      Then it got worse when my supervisor left and an interim one was appointed. I had initially thought she’d be so much better because she had been a consultant and was becoming a friend (we discovered we shared a mutual passion for steamed littleneck clams and mussels). I don’t even know how to describe what she did so I will simply say she was Super Pollyanna on triple doses of super steroids. If anyone didn’t operate at her level of “positivism,” they were deserving of abuse and denigration.

      The college was in a reorg plan, and one of the results was that it was decided to transfer me to a new supervisor. I dreaded this but –OMG, summon the singing angels and the hark-the-healders and all the trumpters of the world–it turned out to be the complete and total opposite. My new supervisor is the world’s best ever! He is kind and patient and so, so grateful for all my talents. He often praises me in both public and private, and he is boundlessly thankful. We are, as he says, the dream team. I have his back, he has mine. Both of us are happy beyond description. It would take much, much longer to list even some of the things he’s done than is suitable here, but fantastic bosses and workplaces do exist. A shame they are in the tiny minority but they DO exist!

    51. Ruby*

      At my current job, we regularly have potlucks, or sponsored lunches, or picnics. I love it. No one is made to participate, but everyone is warm and welcoming (another reason I love this job!) so if you don’t have a work friend to sit by, you can join a group and feel included.

    52. Clever Name*

      I work at a truly awesome company and my coworkers are amazing. I’m not sure there is one experience that I can point to that builds up morale. I believe it’s the culture of the company as a whole. Our unofficial motto is “run to the problem”. When somebody spots an issue with a project, we don’t place blame- we work on solutions to fix it while keeping the client in the loop. It truly is a team environment. I work on a team of 7 people and the summer is our busy season. Our clients have high expectations and scheduling workload can be complex, and we are able to make it work because we have each other’s backs and we will juggle our schedules to cover when an unexpected project pops up. We are also a team in that we don’t compete with each other. I’m leading a big proposal effort for a new type of project we hope to get. There is a mandatory site visit meeting that I can’t attend because I’m in the field. Another coworker is going to cover it for me, and instead of feeling jealous or territorial about it, I’m really glad he can be there, and his unique background will be really helpful- I see it as a plus for the company rather than a negative for me.

      How to accomplish this? I think it’s all in the hiring. Hire great people. If it turns out that you hired someone not-so-great, put them on a PIP and move them out.

    53. Gumby*

      At my first job out of college we did a bunch of “team building” activities that we mostly loved but I think the main reason why it worked was because we already had good teamwork so they were just “fun stuff to do.” Like whitewater rafting, a ropes course, a scavenger hunt, a surfing lesson, a cooking pseudo-competition. Those are the ones that originated from, and were paid for by, management; we also started our own things – book club, afternoon mini-break to play horse at the park across the street (or cat if we didn’t have much time), video-game-lympics. But I think it really only worked so well because we were a small company and all pretty new graduates.

    54. AmandaGlockenspiel*

      That golden feeling when you realize that somewhere without noticing, you stopped thinking “ooh what did i DO?” when someone says “Can you come into this office” and instead you think, “Cake!”

    55. MissDisplaced*

      I went to a trade show with 4 other members of my team and it was really great!
      They were all very appreciative of the work I did on the booth and marketing the event.
      Such a far cry from where I worked previously.

    56. Princess Gnorbu*

      Potlucks! At work, not after hours, and truly optional. Most people enjoyed participating without it taking extra time out of their day, and those who chose not to participate appreciated not being forced into it.

    57. Fantasma*

      At one Old Job, I was a contract employee as were many others in my department. All contractors were hourly and we always had a ton of work to do, but the company had a mandatory week off (unpaid for us) between Christmas and New Year’s for full-time employees. The senior director sent out an org-wide budget email and asked that all managers who had budget left strongly consider allocating it to contractors who maybe couldn’t afford to be off an unpaid week and who had work they could be doing to set the team up for a strong start in January. We weren’t required to work if we didn’t want to, but the option was there and some contractors specifically requested to be able to work. It was very thoughtful of people who often are not treated as well as full-timers and who may have had financial concerns around the holidays. I took advantage of the hours and worked from home and cleared out my queue of to-do items during the blessed email silence.

      At another Old Job, as an end-of-year thank you, our VP let everyone in the department expense four movie tickets and snacks up to $75 total and take a half-day off paid to enjoy with family or friends.

    58. CM*

      Each company meeting includes an inspiring story about awesome things people are doing with our products.

      If I’m sick, having childcare issues, or otherwise need flexibility, it is a non-issue and I’m encouraged to take the time I need. Likewise, if I’m on vacation, I am not expected to be available.

      My schedule is respected and I’m only asked to work on evenings or weekends on the rare occasion when it is actually urgent.

      From day one, my boss asked for my input and genuinely wanted to hear it.

      My reviews start out, “We’re so happy that you work here!” which is so reassuring.

    59. mooocow*

      At my job (analytics department) we get to use 10-20% of our work time for research/professional development. It’s up to the individual to choose what they want to work on, though if you go over 10% it’s assumed your working on projects that are relevant to the company. The time to work on those things is usually work-from-home and you are treated as if you were on vacation, i.e. no expectation that anyone can reach you, or that your there for day-to-day stuff. IT has a similar rule but for them it maxes out at 10%.
      Once a year my department (13 people) goes on a week-long retreat, all expenses paid, where we work together on an interesting machine learning topic of our choice (out of our list of things that would benefit the company but are not being worked on yet). Normally I’d find that a bad thing because I don’t like business travel, but the team atmosphere is so good that I look forward to it a lot.

  3. Karo*

    I start a new job on Monday! This is only my second real job, and I started my first one nearly a decade ago, so – does anyone have any recommendations for what to do/not do or bring/not bring on your first day of work? (Stories about the most ridiculous thing you’ve witnessed on an employee’s first day of work are welcome here!)

    My plan is to be there 15 minutes early, dress slightly nicer than my now-manager dressed for the interview, and only bring a water bottle, notebook/pen, and snack that can fit/stay in my purse (in addition to the documentation they’ve requested).

    On a related note – When I do start bringing stuff in, do I just show up one day with a box full of stuff, or do I just bring in what I can fit in my purse until my cube is decorated/functioning as I’d like? Does it matter if it’s work stuff (e.g. reference books and calendar) vs. personal stuff (e.g. pictures)?

    1. StressedButOkay*

      For bringing items in, I started slowly bringing items in once I was out of my three month new hire probation period. All of the stuff that gradually came to live at work are personal items (pictures, a few amusing things, personal coffee cups, personal organizational items, etc.) but I made sure they weren’t too big/over the top. (Though I went from being in a cube to being in an office, so I was mostly just used to not having a ton of space.)

    2. Denise Feinstein*

      I just started a new job too! I waited until the second day to bring in stuff for my office. I wanted to show up and scope out what the space looked like and see what other people have on their desks and walls.

    3. Anonymous Educator*

      I mean, honestly, it really varies so much based on company culture, geography, type of position… if you do the “wrong” thing, it’s probably not because this is only your second real job—they probably just didn’t communicate to you properly. Good luck!

    4. Enough*

      For work stuff like references a box full at a time seems fine. For personal items I think you take your time. Partly to give yourself time to figure out office norms and judge how much space you have.

    5. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I usually start with a notebook, pen, water bottle and coffee mug. Photos and decorative stuff can come later; you want to get a sense of what other people do before you start bringing things in. I’ve always done it gradually.

      The other thing I usually do on the first day is ask what time is best to arrive. Sometimes people want the chance to get settled themselves before welcoming the new person (my current boss asked me to come at 10am, for example, even though the office opens at 8:30). So along that vein I might caution you against getting there too early since there may not be anyone there to greet you! (That actually happened at the job before this one and it sucked. I got there at about 8:45am for a 9am start and sat in my car in the freezing cold with no idea of the best place to park and no one to let me in the locked office.)

      2. RainyDay*

        I once had a new report show up 45 minutes early. I appreciated the dedication but was SO unprepared! She basically had to sit at her desk with nothing to do for an hour.

      3. noob*

        This – I’ve moved around a fair bit and it makes the first day even more awkward than normal to show up too early. Ask them when they want you to come.

        For the first day – I always bring a discreet snack as lunch is usually unpredictable and I get hungry easily.

        Bring your government ID etc for filling out a W-4.

        And congrats!

      4. Lindsay J*

        Yeah, we always have our new people come in 30 minutes after start on their first day so we can make sure we are in the building, settled in, etc before they come in.

    6. RainyDay*

      I’m in a similar spot! I start my third job next Monday (yay!!) after 10+ years at two others. I’m going to show up on the first day with just what I need to function (possibly not lunch, to get a feel for the office vibe – and give myself an excuse to check out the neighborhood!), so basically my pad portfolio and documentation. I’m waiting a few days to slowly bring stuff in, again, to get the vibe. No one I’ve worked with thus far has any issues with my decor (not too obnoxious, but I like having tchotchkes and photos to make my desk feel homey), but I still figure it’ll be best to get a feel for the office vibe before showing up with a bunch of things!

      Congrats on the new job!

    7. Evil HR Person*

      I’d bring a lunch, only because I suffer from low blood sugar and if I don’t know where the nearest/nicer places are to have lunch, I’d be in trouble. Plus, if the parking situation is iffy, you wouldn’t want to leave for lunch only to not find another spot. Or the nearest lunch place is a McD’s and you’ve just about had it with Big Macs. You get the idea… But I’d pack a no-refrigeration-required type of lunch (think soup can), so if I’m invited out to lunch, I can simply forget my lunch without feeling like I’ve just wasted food.

      Wear comfortable shoes. Every single time I’ve started at a new place, I always end up touring the whole thing! Once (and I learned thereafter) I wore heels and blistered my feet something awful. If you have super comfy heels, then wear those, if not – stick to flats. And layer your clothes just in case the office is a freezer – or, conversely but less frequent, an oven.

      I’d bring in all the business books and your calendar at one go (if you can), but starting on the second day or even your first week anniversary. Slowly bring in your personal stuff one knick-knack or photo at a time.

      1. Snazzy Hat*

        But I’d pack a no-refrigeration-required type of lunch (think soup can), so if I’m invited out to lunch, I can simply forget my lunch without feeling like I’ve just wasted food.

        If I may add specifics to this: pack a no-refrigeration-required sandwich. You don’t want to find out the hard way that the one microwave on your floor has a line out the kitchenette during your lunch hour, or that your last workplace had individually-wrapped plasticware but your new place doesn’t even have communal wash-it-yourself random mismatched spoons so you can’t eat the soup you brought. Yes, that last one happened to me when I went from a good factory to a crappy warehouse.

    8. Not So Recently Diagnosed*

      You’re amazing, and they’re going to love you and all of the talent you bring. The commenters above have the right ideas, I think, but once your personality starts to shine, they’re going to love all of your desk decor :).

    9. Middle School Teacher*

      Congratulations!

      I’d say, just bring what you need in your purse until you see what kind of space you’re working with. I don’t think you want to be the person who brings all their swag only to learn that people are required to keep their cubes pretty sparse, for example. Get the lay of the land first. Otherwise your plan sounds great!

    10. Office decorator*

      The sign that it was time for me to decorate my office came a week or two in, when I got sick of co-workers commenting on how plain my space was.

      1. Xarcady*

        I never bring in much beyond a travel mug and some reference books, but at current job, once three people told me it was okay to decorate my cubicle, I figured out that I was supposed to decorate. I brought in 3 plants and a funny coffee mug and a wall calendar and the comments stopped.

    11. Anonymosity*

      I wait a little bit, maybe a few weeks, before bringing stuff in. You might end up moving spaces when you’re new–that happened to me at Exjob. They put me in a tiny cube, which I was fine with, but then a larger one opened up and I was able to move into it. I stayed there for the duration of my employment. By the time I lost the job, I had a TON of stuff in my cube (and I made them wait to walk me out while I packed every bit of it, too).

      If your office has a probation period, I’d maybe bring in a small plant and a photo or two to brighten up the space and wait until the probation period is over before carting in a bunch of stuff. That way, if something goes wrong like a layoff, or they move you, it won’t be a huge PITA to relocate.

    12. SavannahMiranda*

      I once started a new job and needed lunch that day to go home and give medicine to my sick/dying cat. Not fun. But I thought, “This is great way to confirm boundaries, that my lunch hour isn’t for work.” Because in my industry, lunch is frequently ephemeral at best.

      Welp. New employer was not pleased. They were strange with me for a couple weeks after that. Until they got a better feel for me and understood I was a hard worker.

      And it’s not even as if they were all going to take me out for lunch on my first day or something nice. It was simply that they had scheduled multiple meetings and trainings for me throughout the day, with multiple people and groups, with no regard to an hour-long break outside the building. I forget whether they were giving me a box lunch or what.

      I’m certain your industry is more self-aware and considerate! (And legally compliant.) And this was not my first rodeo. I’d had first days at new jobs multiple times. But that certainly gave me a wake up call that the first day and first week can sometimes come with strange cultural expectations I need to be on the look-out for. And that Day One may not be the day to do the push-back.

    13. Not So Little My*

      In the first week I bring a coffee cup/water bottle, computer glasses, lip balm, and small hand lotion. Unless the office provides an ergonomic mouse/keyboard out of the box, I’ll bring in my own mouse/keyboard/wrist-rest/mouse-pad in the next few days so I can work without re-injuring my wrists. It’s typical for software people to wear headphones so they can concentrate in an open office, so I’ll bring in my headphones after a few days if I see that’s part of the culture. If I get fed up with the pens and notebooks I’ll bring in a Moleskine and some rollerball pens. After a few weeks I may trickle in a few professional books (although most resources are online these days because books fall out of currency fast unless they are about overarching software architectural/design principles). I very rarely bring in personal items because people don’t stay in jobs long in my field, plus I like to keep my personal life and work life separate.

      1. Argh!*

        The workplace should provide ergonomic keyboards & a mouse! My now-boss asked me ahead of time whether I needed any accommodation, and that’s what I asked for. They supplied them, no questions asked.

    14. Argh!*

      I doubt that anyone cares about how or when you decorate your office, as long as you don’t take too much time away from things you’re supposed to be doing.

    15. Bea*

      TBH if someone showed up with a box full of decor their first few days, I would be taken aback. Over the years, I have always ended up with decorated work spaces/offices and it’s a slow process as things come in and get spread around.

      Waiting gives you time to see what others do as well as your work space and what will easily be accommodate.

      I show up with all my office supplies that I prefer (pens, a notebook, mini stapler and highlighters) because I come from a background where they may or may not be easily accessible. I tend to be the one who brings those kinds of things everywhere though, I hate asking about the supply closet and will often find it a few days later during my exploring periods.

    16. Artemesia*

      I would never want to look like I was ‘moving in’ but rather bring the occasional item. And the best strategy IMHO for starting out is to be cordial to everyone, not allow yourself to be taken under the wing by one ‘friendly’ person and to mostly observe for the first month. At that point you understand the dynamics of the place. I have seen the office creep or trouble maker delightedly befriend the newbie in hopes of making her an ally; you don’t want to become associated with someone dysfunctional by happenstance. And knowing the formal and informal power structure before putting your foot in it is so crucial.

    17. Autumnheart*

      I personally try to stick to a rule where my desk should not contain more things than will fit in one box. (As I look around, I notice I’m currently violating this rule, so I should probably take a few things home today.) Not to be Polly Pessimism, but in the event of a layoff (or even if you just move on after giving notice like normal) the last thing you want to do is prolong the awkwardness by having to pack up a huge pile of stuff. One box will hold plenty of personal items.

      Bringing in all your relevant reference materials on the first day would be pretty logical, as long as we’re talking about a handful of books vs. a whole shelf full. One thing I would recommend having at your cube, if you have an outlet, is a charging station, so you can plug in your phone, tablet, Bluetooth headphones, etc. and keep them organized in a smaller footprint as opposed to having cables all over your desktop. And it’s nice to be able to charge your stuff at work for the inevitable times when you forgot to do it overnight.

    18. Ruby*

      An example that bothered me: A new worker started in the cube in front of me. Within a week, her cube was decked out like she lived here. She was even in a position where her job wasn’t permanent, which bothered me more–she’s a temp and personalized her cube more than people who have worked here for years! That was too much for me–I much prefer bringing in things over time. I also like to keep my stuff at the office minimal…my goal is to only fit my stuff into one box if I ever left lol.

      1. Autumnheart*

        I had a coworker who stuffed his cube full of crap and junk—memorabilia, sports stuff, kids’ photos, manual typewriters (yes, more than one! He collects them) so that he barely had room for his laptop. And then when he got laid off, he had to make multiple trips to bring it all home.

        Even with my one box rule, my desk seems to be pretty cluttered. I’ve got my backpack, lunch bag, laptop, and purse, and I take those home each day. The monitor and various desk implements take up a fair amount of desktop. I’m not anal about keeping my space super organized, but it just gives me the willies to see someone’s cube buried in crap.

    19. I Wrote This in the Bathroom*

      We’ve moved offices so many times at CurrentJob that I’ve downsized my belongings to one box that can be easily packed. I usually bring in personal stuff pretty early on, but there isn’t a lot of it. Maybe not on the first day, you’ve got to see the layout of the place and what other people have on/at their desks; besides, the place can give you things like the coffee mug or stationery, so you’ll know not to bring in your own.

      I recommend packing lunch on the first day. Something that does not need to be heated, because you won’t know how the microwave will work out. I used to not do it, but on my first day at this job, it came back to bite me in the butt. I was going to a company where everyone had come from OldJob and so I knew everyone. Did not pack any food, because I assumed we’d all go out somewhere. Instead, I walked in to a full day of meetings, with a 30-minute lunch break, that I was told by the HR I had to use to take the mandatory online training that was due at 5:00 PM. The building did not even have a vending machine! My lunch that day was M&Ms from the front desk and the half and half packets from my boss’s office (he had a coffee machine and brought in the condiments). Congrats on the new job!

    20. Uhmealeah*

      When I started my first real job, I wasn’t sure what to expect so I overdressed and showed up early on the first day. I was expecting office work, business to business casual attire based on the managers in my interview. I ended up waiting outside in a hallway for 15 minutes because no one was around to let me in, and way overdressed. A few hours later, found myself with thin and uncomfortable heels, getting a tour out “in the field”, aka a dirty warehouse. I quickly regretted my banana republic shopping spree and ended up wearing dickies pants and black shoes. Granted, you may know more about the position than I did at the time, dressing to match the manager may be completely inconsistent with what someone in your new position should wear.

      Good luck! Congrats!

    21. Nines*

      Oh my God! I was going to ask this EXACT question and was a little bummed I had forgotten to post something earlier! Woo Hoo! New jobs on Monday!

  4. Wat.*

    How do you define job hopping? What does job hopping look like in your field? One year stints? Two year stints? How many two-three year stints are okay?

    I’m really struggling to identify what’s job hopping and what’s not in an industry that sees promotions every 2-3 years for the first decade or so, until the director level, but may not always have a pathway for current employees.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I work in education, and job-hopping looks like two or three one-year stints in a row. Or a one-year, two-year, and another one-year. You can have one one-year stint, but most schools I deal with (private/independent/parochial) want to see at least three solid years at a school.

      I guess an exception would be international hiring, which tends to expect job-hopping (many people who teach in international schools do so specifically for the opportunity to live in different countries), but it’s also typical for those schools to hire on a two-year contract.

      1. Middle School Teacher*

        I would agree. Some people have bad luck (eg keep getting one-year temp contracts, like mat leaves) but in general, if I saw a teacher’s resume with lots of one-year stints, I’d wonder why their board didn’t want to keep them.

        1. Anonymous Educator*

          I see a series of one-year stints for a teacher as one of two things:

          1A. This teacher is amazing in the classroom but restless and always wants a “better” school.

          1B. This teacher has a spouse whose work somehow takes precedence in terms of where they live, and so the teacher has to move all the time.

          2. This teacher is terrible and so gets let go all the time.

          Whether it’s the teacher’s fault or not, very few schools desire teachers who are likely to leave after only one year.

      2. Also a teacher*

        I agree with this. I sit on hiring committees at my school, and when I go through resumes, I look for longer stints, commensurate with the total career length.

    2. Washi*

      I think it also depends on age/how far out of school a person is. In my field (nonprofits) it’s pretty common to have a large number of 1-3 year stints in your 20s. Plus, nonprofits are always at the mercy of grant and donor funding, and if you’re occupying mainly junior roles, you are like likely to be the first one out the door when things start going downhill.

    3. Genny*

      What field are you in? I’m in IR, moving every 2-3 years isn’t looked down on (probably because it’s partially normalized by Foreign Service Officers moving around every 2-3 years, partially because it’s a small world), but it’s also just as likely that someone stays at an organization ten years and becomes a subject matter expert. I think a series of jobs with less than 2 year stints looks funny.

      1. Wat.*

        I work in a corporate finance field. The road to director (junior -> senior -> manager -> director) is about 10 years total, but there’s often not a ton of room to move internally unless someone above you quits, which may or may not happen on a timeline that’s ideal.

        1. SavannahMiranda*

          In my industry one is not promoted unless they move. It’s not cruel or thankless, it’s just the way the field functions, without penalty. It sounds like your industry may work the same way.

          My failure to understand this resulted in unworkable loyalty to my first position, hoping and trying and shooting for That Promotion. It never came. When I read an industry article and consulted colleagues, I came to understand the move from junior to mid-level to senior meant changing employers.

          This wasn’t to say my current employer didn’t appreciate me. Perhaps maybe that they didn’t have the imagination. But that is endemic to my industry. Ambition is rewarded when it means the ambition to present yourself to a new employer at a position one rung up from where you are now.

          Once I understood this and did not take it personally, I started moving up by moving out. I transitioned from entry level, to junior, to in-house mid-level, to senior in a matter of six years. By changing employers three times. I have not been penalized for it in those six years. I have been rewarded with 30k increase in salary and commensurate increase in responsibility.

          This kind of thing tends to be industry specific. Only you know your industry. In another space I might be perceived as an excessively ambitious job-hopper. In my space, it works. And if I held myself to my misunderstood earlier standard, I would have suffered for it.

          Consult your peers in industry groups. Read articles in industry rags and blogs. Go to the LinkedIn profiles of managers you admire who appear to be doing everything right in your line of work and see what their job histories look like. Put all of this information on a back burner and digest it. Good luck!

        2. SavannahMiranda*

          Follow-on to note that you did mention corporate finance. I am in corporate finance on the legal services side.

          Finance and law tend to be hard cultures that reward risk and moxy rather than soft cultures that cultivate from the inside and discourage risk. So there’s a good chance you may have the same moving up by moving out unspoken standard.

          Again, go to the LinkedIn profiles of people who are ‘doing it right’ in your field and in your region. To a reasonable extent, and after reviewing several of these people, synthesize what they seem to be doing right, and emulate their processes.

          And I didn’t mean to make it sound like I had four jobs in six years. I had three in six, two years each. Four years at Entry Level employer where I learned not to expect the promotion. Two years at Junior Level employer. Two years at Mid-Level employer. And now two years at Senior Level employer. So, ten years? The acceleration happened in six, but the total of ten is respectable.

          I’m staying here for the foreseeable future, unless I physically move to another state. The work remains challenging, I have great bosses, and I have room to expand my purview. So once you nab the rung where you hit your stride, perhaps plan to stay for a while.

          Don’t give loyalty in an industry that rewards risks, and don’t take undue risks in an industry that rewards loyalty. Only you know your industry.

    4. Higher Ed Database Dork*

      I work in higher ed IT. I see job hopping as someone staying only about a year or less, and it’s not due to contract or grant work or layoffs. We do get a lot of applications from people who are consultants or contractors, so I can understand shorter stays there. But if someone is just picking up and moving from school to school, or job to job, and they are all permanent positions, then I get a little concerned.

      However higher ed can see a lot of departmental reorgs where you might lose your job, or the workload gets so untenable that you can’t function (they don’t tend to backfill positions), so it’s not always someone’s fault if they don’t have a lot of long-term stays. I try to suss out exactly why they left before making a judgement call.

    5. College Career Counselor*

      I’m in higher education, and people tend to stick around for awhile. Unless you had a grant-funded/temporary position (or you’re just starting in residence life and are expected to leave in 2-3 years), it’s more the norm in my experience to stick around for at least five years. And be prepared to be asked HARD why you’re leaving if you’ve only been at your current institution for two years.

    6. CatCat*

      I have a hard time figuring it myself, but I think 1-2 year stints.

      I actually hopped a bit before my current position, but it doesn’t LOOK like it because I did laterally moving teams within the same organizations. Same title, but ultimately different job responsibilities because work was pretty siloed for each team. If I had switched organizations, it would look like I was a job hopper, but because I didn’t, I don’t look like a job hopper.

      *Reality for positions before my current job*
      Department of Llama Wrangling
      Title: Llama Wranger
      Team 1: 1 year
      Team 2: 1 year

      Camelid Security Agency
      Title: Llama Wranger
      Team 1: 2 years
      Team 2: 1.5 years

      *Resume for positions before my current job*
      Department of Lllama Wrangling (2 years)
      Title: Llama Wranger

      Camelid Security Agency (3.5 years)
      Title: Llama Wranger

    7. Tableau Wizard*

      I’m in process improvement, which is a field that often leads to shorter tenures and faster movements.
      For the positions I help review resumes for, we want to see some stability somewhere. A stint of at least 4 years if you have a couple shorter ones. When we see resumes that bounce around every 1-3 years, consistently for the last 10, that’s a red flag. Especially if there are gaps between end and start dates. If you’ve held 3 jobs in the last 10 years, with increasing levels of responsibility, that wouldn’t be a problem.

    8. Totally Minnie*

      I feel like a lot of this depends on what the jobs are. If I look at a resume that shows multiple short stays in lateral types of jobs or jobs in multiple fields, that’s a bit of a concern. But if it’s the same length of time and the same number of jobs in an upward trajectory, that says something different.

    9. Amaryllis*

      I’m in a field that tends toward contract work (IS), so it’s important to be explicit on your resume regarding what was a permanent position and what was freelance. A series of year-or-less positions can be okay, as long as they are organized and labeled properly.

      I have seen applicants rejected when their work history was chronological, and there was no way to tell which was which.

    10. AnonGD*

      I’m in a creative field– we just hired for a new position and the biggest resume that stuck out to us as a “job hopper” position was a guy that had been in like six jobs in six years. Great portfolio, but even him reassuring my boss that some of the positions were contract positions did not go over well with her.

    11. Green Goose*

      I work at an education nonprofit that requires a long onboarding and we want to hire people that will be here 3+ years. When we had an opening in my department a while ago and we were hiring a position I remember going through resumes and the department head was looking for consistency in the job history. One guy who had a lot of the desired skills had about 3-4 jobs where he worked 1.5-2.5 years. I think if it were for an entry level position it wouldn’t have mattered but for a manager position, it was too much job hopping.

    12. Girl friday*

      In my industry, working three to five years cumulatively before being promoted is a guideline. Depending on your future or current occupation, it might be faster. Cops and former military are quicker I think. Job-hopping once a year is tolerated but many people I know don’t do that. If you reach 7 years and you haven’t been promoted, there’s usually a problem. I work in restaurants. BTW Moonlighting usually counts: if you do it consistently at one place for a year or so, it counts as working there for a year.

  5. Finally Friday!*

    I finished my English BA six years ago. Since then, I’ve been done administrative assistant work. I’m really interested in moving into editing/publishing/copywriting work at some point in the next couple years. I’ve been browsing job applications for their requirements and though I meet the ‘office experience’ requirement, I’m lacking in writing samples.

    Aside from editing formatting and the fine print of proposals and contracts, I don’t have any professional writing samples. My ones from college feel out-of-date at five years old. So how do I go about getting new writing samples to submit?

    Do I need to take a class/certification course to generate professional writing samples? Should I do volunteer opportunities that involve writing and editing (I’ve seen them on Volunteer Match)? Should I start a blog? Maybe there is an obvious answer to this question but I’m feeling stumped as to how to generate relevant writing samples that would be professional enough to be considered by a business.

    1. KatieKate*

      Following this, because I also just got asked for a writing sample and my last real ones are 5 years old from college

    2. Blue Anne*

      There are content-generating services out there where you can sign up to research and write blog articles on particular topics, basically so that the companies can have stuff coming out on their blogs regularly.

      I know that it’s available as piecemeal work but I have no idea how competitive it is.

    3. grace*

      I vote for volunteering! I know nonprofits need help with copy writing, materials, etc. I started working with an organization whose mission I was passionate about by volunteering to make them a website (not my field, but I was taking a course and needed a final project). I went on to join the board and am now VP – and I have definitely grown so much as a professional since getting involved 5+ years ago (in addition to, you know, the charity part). You even might get some job leads out of it!

      1. self employed*

        I agree. You would also get some additional references who could speak to your attention to detail, timeliness, etc. when it comes to writing and editing. Try to make sure its an org that you would otherwise support.

      2. Curious Cat*

        +1 to volunteering! Back in college to get my very first writing samples I volunteered to do PR for a local cat shelter. Got some great social media experience by helping to re-vamp and run their Facebook/Instagram pages, as well as writing for their website & putting out event announcements/press releases to local newspapers.

    4. Emily S.*

      After leaving journalism school, I got some good samples by contributing to local news blogs/webmags (some that did pay, some that didn’t). I also took photos to accompany them (I had studied photojournalism as well as writing). It might be something to look at. Of course, it helps if you happen to know anyone who’s already associated with one of these sites, even just an acquaintance.

    5. Buckeye*

      Volunteering is definitely an option. Many nonprofits need good writers, but can’t afford to hire their own in house. You could also try signing up for a site like Upwork or something similar and take on a few freelancing writing projects to build an initial portfolio.

    6. KMB213*

      To add to the chorus: I would go with volunteering, too! You could use the writing samples pretty much right away, and, after you’ve been volunteering somewhere on a steady basis for, say, six months, if the work is relevant (which, in this case, it would be, since you’d be writing for your volunteer work and would be applying for writing jobs), you could include it on your resume, too. It could also be a source for a great reference.

      A blog could be another viable option, but only if you have time to really dedicate to it and make it professional.

    7. Fox1*

      Another option is to publish some articles about your industry on Medium or LinkedIn, that way you have a professional looking link rather than just sending in a word document.

    8. Rezia*

      I work in the journalism industry where, like publishing, clips probably matter more than your resume. I second the suggestions to volunteer or freelance (hey, if you can make some money while you do it, why not). I’d encourage you to take some time to think about what types of writing you’d most like to do for a future job, and then seek out opportunities to build up a portfolio that looks similar. I.e. (hypothetically) if you wanted to be doing book reviews and applying for book review jobs, submitting a bunch of writing samples of press releases isn’t going to be as helpful.

    9. Yah*

      It would depend on what kind of writing you want to do. If it’s technical writing, then a certificate would help. If you want to do copywriting for marketing and advertising, then publish online – blog, LinkedIn articles, and social media posts.

      1. One of the Annes*

        Also, for technical writing samples, you could draft procedures for your workplace processes (how to have travel reimbursed, how to bill a vendor, how to send a fax using the MFD, etc.).

    10. Kat Em*

      Volunteering and blogging are how I got my first clips, as well as my first paid freelance work! Don’t worry about certifications, nobody really cares about them when it comes to writing. Write as much as you can, find your professional voice, and keep up at least a nominal web presence. Good luck!

  6. Snarkus Aurelius*

    I have an almost 20 year career in my field. I’ve been at the Director level for almost five years. I’ve got a new boss who…has done a bit of tweaking on my job responsibilities. He’s taken two of my lowest priorities (social media and website) and made them my highest. Keep in mind, I don’t actually do those two things; I supervise staff who do. Although we have people on staff to do this, he wants me doing it myself because it’s one of the most important things to him. In discussing my other duties, ironically, the primary thing I do most of the day, what I was hired for, and what’s in my actual title was never mentioned. Given his enthusiasm for social media, I wanted to point out that it shouldn’t take THAT much time anyway, but I didn’t sense he wanted my feedback.

    This is not the first time that someone has looked at my credentials and experience and thought that lower level/administrative tasks should be my thing. One woman thought I would make a great assistant for her even though I’ve never had that job and never aspired to it. She openly she admitted she wanted someone with my background doing that type of work for her; she didn’t want someone who has a career of being an assistant. (Yes…YES YOU DO!)

    Is there a delicate way of pointing this out? What I want to say is, “You were wowed by my experience at places X, Y, and Z and my accomplishments on A, B, and C, but you think my efforts should be directed towards…this?”

    1. kbeers0su*

      Maybe try an approach along the lines of “based on our conversations it feels like your priorities are different than OldBoss- can you give me a sense of/big picture view of where we’re going as a department/where I fit in to that plan?” If he can give you answers to those questions, that should give you the info you need to decide what your nest steps need to be. If he envisions your entire role shifting and you’re not interested in that new role, what now? In my org, a drastic change like that couldn’t happen without HR approval because it would require a review, benchmarking, etc. But that may mean you’re out of a job. So I think you should just gather more info now and see where that takes you. (Side note- I’d also look around and see what other changes he’s made because that may also help give you important context if others’ roles are also shifting.)

    2. !$!$*

      This probably isn’t helpful, but I recently took a leadership class at my nonprofit and all. They. Harped. On. was that one must build a BRAND and that includes more than LinkedIn. One direct quote was, “and if you don’t have social media than THAT says a lot about you.” I was like WTF. And besides anonymously commenting on various websites (I’m usually a lurker) I have no social media presence. I’m 30. So maybe your big boss is drinking the koolaid. Maybe I should be an Instagram model to build my brand?

      Dunno about the assistant thing, that’s annoying

      1. Cousin Itt*

        I’ve seen this before, mainly it means maintaining an active social account (usually Twitter) that shares and discusses content relevant to your industry (ie, if you work in publishing, post about new releases, industry events and news like Penguin’s new diversity policy), but that advice is only helpful for some fields. Unless you work in beauty or social media marketing becoming an IG model is unlikely to help :p

      2. Jerry Vandesic*

        Having a brand isn’t new. Management guru Tom Peters wrote “A Brand Called You” in Fast Company over twenty years ago. It’s not about social media (though social media could be incorporated); rather it’s about taking control of how you want to be perceived in your profession. A personal web site with publications or portfolio, a great LinkedIn profile, white papers, all of this fits into your brand. You want to make it easy for people to know what you stand for in your career. When someone thinks of you professionally, you want them to think of the things you see as core to your profession. This can then lead to new opportunities, from new jobs to speaking engagements to advisory board invitations.

    3. esra*

      Seconding kbeersosu on this. I’ve had the same issue before (I don’t know if it’s a woman in tech thing or a marketing thing or what), where a new boss or someone higher up in the chain just really didn’t understand what it was I did and kept pushing super minor stuff up my priority list. For (new) immediate bosses, I’ve booked a 1-1 meeting to lay out what I do + give an overview of how my role relates to the org. This guy sounds… maybe less interested in input that way? I think you could take some of what you want to say and make it more politick tho, like “I know you were pleased with my/my team’s accomplishments on A/B/C, can I ask about the new focus on X/Y/Z?”

    4. Anon today*

      I’m in radio as a News Director. My boss has now decided that I need to produce daily podcasts in addition to all my other duties (which includes a 5 hour air shift). It’s think it’s a total waste of my time and talents, certainly wasn’t a priority a month ago and is something I’ve never done. I’d much rather our part time employee do this. But I like my paycheck so I’m accepting that my job description has evolved. I would suggest you start handling the social media and website.

      1. Anonie*

        No. I’m a male with 16 years experience. When I started my career there was no social media, no Iphone, and no podcasts. My job has evolved tremendously throughout the years, and I don’t expect that will change.

    6. JessicaTate*

      I think you’re on the right track with wording to point this out, maybe with less incredulity in the tone. I do think, at some point, it would be good to have a direct conversation about maximizing everyone’s potential via their particular expertise. “You know, Bob and Jane have XYZ experience with social media, so I was thinking we could maximize the value we get by making this their primary responsibility. I, of course, will make it a priority to oversee that work, ensure it’s being done strategically [or whatever placating sentiment would assure him that you would be involved and prioritizing that this is done really well, but at a higher / managing level that won’t actually require the majority of your time].” And then something to describe for him the stuff you ARE good at, and how you could leverage that to be supportive of his priorities.

      Is there any way that you can think about better describing the nature of WHAT you are an expert at doing, so that it feels more aligned with his priorities? So, less about the particular process of your teapot-making style, and more about the outcome it produces? When you said that others have looked at your credentials and thought of you for admin tasks… I’m wondering if there’s something about people not really understanding the thing that you’re really good at, and making some dumb assumptions that “Oh, well, that’s pretty wonky, I bet she’d be good at admin stuff.” That may be way off base… I’m reading between some widely-spaced lines there.

      I think you should try to solve it, and I really hope it works. But you might have to consider that New Boss could be fatal to your job satisfaction. I was in a similar situation with the worst boss I’ve ever had, and we could never resolve it. I was hired because of my expertise and accomplishment about a specific process for teapot development. I was given a new boss who started listing lots of teapot development priorities that she wanted me to pursue, many of which ran contrary to my long-established expertise about effective teapot development or simply required a radically different skill-set than I had (ex: event planning vs. teapot development). When I would draw upon my expertise and the research supporting the efficacy of my process, New Boss would shut me down. Eventually, I was told, “You need to stop talking about [insert my fields of expertise].” After 6+ months of that abuse and feeling bad at my job, I quit. I moved back to a position where I used my expertise and it was valued by the people I worked with and for. I should have done it sooner. Good luck to you!

      1. ArtsNerd*

        I agree with this. Push back, push back, push back.

        You are not an expert on web sites and social media, while your staff are. (Even if that’s a stretch, it’s unlikely to be a flat-out lie.) You will absolutely bump these up the priority list for your team, but you know your strengths, and managing the work is where you’re needed while Johnny Millennial works the twits and the snaps and the “me-me”s. The more you can play up any ridiculous generational stereotypes, the more amusing it is in my mental image. It also may or may not be helpful, but i wouldn’t be surprised if your boss bought into them and found it compelling reasoning.

        If the pushback isn’t successful, then I expect you’ll need to move on to a position that understands what Director-level work is, as JessicaTate had to. (And I’m so sorry you had to go through that, both of you. How infuriating.)

  7. Friday Happy Dance*

    I’m about to accept a job offer and I’m really excited! Any tips for a successful transition out of this job and into a new one?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      Honestly, just enjoy the ride! Whether leaving a great place or a toxic one, I’ve always found the transition to be fun (apart from the HR paperwork).

    2. Washi*

      I made a huge tracker of everything I planned to do before my last day, a deadline, and a section for notes in our shared drive so my manager could see it, and we talked through what were the highest priority items vs. nice-to-haves. It helped me prioritize in my last couple weeks and helped her feel confident that I was leaving the work in good shape.

    3. RainyDay*

      LEAVE TURNOVER NOTES. For the sake of all that is holy, please leave turnover notes. Not only will it help the person behind you, but it also helps remind you of gaps/things to do that maybe you can/should do before you head out.

      Congrats!!

      1. ArtsNerd*

        Yes! And at the same time — don’t burn yourself out trying to leave everything in flawless shape if you don’t have the time, and especially if your management is providing zero support or interest in the transition. I deeply regret putting in those extra hours and starting my new job still exhausted from the old one.

        1. ArtsNerd*

          I also got a DM from my old coworker years after I resigned asking me where and how to log in so they can get their web site back. The domain expired (and I most certainly did document the web host and registrar login information) and a squatter snatched it up. They never did get it back…

        2. ArtsNerd*

          That anecdote has little to nothing to do with your question. It’s that I’m still not over that exchange. That wasn’t a tiny organization where the entire staff was legitimately helpless in figuring things out. It was part of a university, with like, an IT department and stuff.

    4. Argh!*

      Don’t burn any bridges! I went back to an old workplace 12 years after I thought I’d never see it again.

  8. Fare Thee Well, Boss Man*

    Question about things to think about when your boss is leaving.

    I am administrative support to four directors, as well as the sales team that works under them. The director who is my direct supervisor, the one who hired me to the team, and the one who gives me most of my work, will be leaving for a new job in a few weeks. I’m not worried about being let go; though he is the one who hired me, the entire team wanted this support position filled and they give me plenty to do. I guess I’m just worried about having gaps in things to do. My boss alone gave me about 35-40% of my tasks, as opposed to the other three directors and their team. So how do I ask for more work without seeming like I have way too little to do? Potential idea, I’d love to help more with the marketing team, which our sales teams works closely with and who will also be losing someone around the same time as my boss goes. How can I apply to help with the marketing team to fill in the gaps my director is leaving behind?

    Also I’ve never had a boss leaving a company while I still worked there; how do I stay in touch with him to get a future resume? I know he’ll want to give me one, he’s talked before about how he knows I’m at the start of my career and there are lots of opportunities ahead of me both at this company and elsewhere. But how do I stay in touch? Occasional ‘how are you doing’ emails so my request down the road won’t be out of the blue, though he’s really not the type to engage in small talk so I think those emails would mostly be ignored.

    Any other thoughts and tips about hints to think about when your direct supervisor is leaving would be most appreciated!

    1. RainyDay*

      Do you have a LinkedIn account? That might be your best bet – connect on LinkedIn and you can low-key keep in touch. It’s also pretty standard to reach out on that platform to previous employers/coworkers, so it’s not out of the blue!

    2. Ali G*

      Definitely LinkedIn! e sure to connect to him. Also sometimes people will give their personal email addresses to people they want to keep in touch with – sounds like that is you. If you want you could send him your personal email address to keep in touch.
      As for the work stuff. You might be surprised. Just because he is leaving doesn’t mean someone isn’t doing his work. Find out who is taking over the brunt of his responsibilities until he is replaced and offer them your assistance.

    3. zora*

      1st, as Ali G said, who is taking over his work? Presumably someone will still be doing those things and that person (or people) will need your support even more because you have done all of this before!

      2nd, in my company it would be so not a big deal to go to the other people I support, or other departments and say “George leaving is freeing up a lot of my time, so if there is anything additional I can take off your plate, please let me know.” You could even add your personal preferences/make suggestions: “I’m really good at event logistics and travel, especially, so if you have any events, keep me in mind.” Or whatever. It might help jog their mind to think about giving you things they aren’t already giving you.

      There isn’t a downside to this (in my company) where they would then assume I have too little to do or I’m a slacker. It’s just describing the circumstances to them, and honestly, I think it makes you look more like a go-getter to constantly be offering to take on more stuff, then to just keep quiet about it! But of course, this all depends on your company so YMMV

      1. Business Manager*

        Seconding that at least where I have worked, it has come off as go-getter to ask for more work. I tend to frame it in the ‘I know everyone’s busy so if there’s a way I can make their lives better, I’m all for it’ type of conversation. Or the ‘I’ve made everything 50% more efficient, so I have time to take on other projects.

    4. Fellow EA*

      I would wait until you see what the workflow looks like after his departure before trying to take on more work. The other directors might have more work they are able to give you and were just holding back because your ‘real boss’ was using 40% of your bandwidth.

      Wait, feel it out, and then connect with the remaining three directors about supporting them more before looking outside the team.

  9. Queen of Green*

    I try to be really good about reusing items, recycling, etc. My work does not have a recycling program and I feel bad throwing certain things in the trash, like empty cardboard boxes. I often bring these boxes home (usually tissue boxes or granola bar boxes) to put in my own recycling bin, which my boyfriend thinks is crazy. None of my coworkers have said anything, but it makes me wonder…

    Anyone else do this? Other weird/odd (but totally harmless) officemate quirks you can’t wrap your head around?

    1. You don't know me*

      I will also take home from work some things to recycle, mostly plastic bottles.

    2. Brandy*

      I do. I cant stand to not, so I put my plastic bottles, cardboard from old tissue boxes and cleaned out crushed soup cans back in my lunch bag and carry them home. Some people here years ago asked, I told them and that was it. No biggie.

    4. Enough*

      I’ve done similar things when out but years ago before recycling hit the neighborhoods my husband bad I would take things to work to recycle. And my municipality allows you to put larger things in their recycling dumpster.

    5. Heth*

      Yes, I do, although my office does recycle I collect cardboard/glass jars etc. for doing craft with girl guides and other groups I run. Unfortunately I don’t go straight home most nights I tend to end up with a stack of things under my desk. I’ve bought a large box that I fit most things into and I’ve started to have conversations about how I need things for activities so people don’t think I’m hoarding rubbish!

    6. Anonymous Educator*

      Unless you’re taking anything confidential home (doesn’t sound like it), you are absolutely doing the right thing.

    7. Grits McGee*

      I bring home K cups to compost the coffee grounds- I have a designated plastic container for them in the breakroom and everything. I chose to believe that my coworkers find it incredibly charming. ;)

      1. WellRed*

        My coworker has a compost bucket here at the office. I am constantly bringing in produce scraps and forgotten fruit to throw in it. I love it.

    8. Kittymommy*

      Little different. I actually take home the boxes or big paper bags (take out, etc.) to use at home for my recycling. I don’t have curbside pick up so I have to take all of my trash/recycling myself. I love when we get shipments!

    10. Emily S.*

      Yes. I convinced the grandboss to buy a couple of large recycling bins, which I periodically empty, and take items to the local drop-off site (conveniently, right on my way home from work). They’re mostly just used for bottles and cans, but I feel better about things, since we don’t have any on-site recycling.

      1. zora*

        omg, I’m not the only one!! High Five from another person who became a one-person Recycling Program.

    11. King Friday XIII*

      I live in a bottle bill state and one of my coworkers likes to round up cans and bottles for the deposit. I don’t think anybody thinks too much of it.

    12. zora*

      I have totally done that, tell your boyfriend to shut his face ;o). In fact, at one place I started a recycling program for things that were not collected curbside and once a month piled up my car and took it to the recycling plant. But that might be a little over the top.

      If I was at your company, i would definitely start working behind the scenes to figure out how to get the building to start separating recycling, because that really upsets me that parts of this country still aren’t recycling yet. But I’m definitely a little crazy.

    13. rosie*

      I take discarded printouts and keep them at my desk to take notes on the blank side (I do a lot of phone-based work and like to keep notes during calls). It drives me crazy how often people will just toss paper in the trash!

      1. Garland not Andrews*

        Where I work we call that GOOSe paper. (Good On One Side) At one former employer we would print out monthly reports that were like half a ream long and we only needed about 20 or so of the pages. What was left just had headers and gray bars without any confidential information. I took those home all the time for use in my house printer. Where I am now, we are moving to paperless, so very little GOOSe paper any more. :-( Mostly just the coversheets from what little I do print out.

      2. tink*

        The place I work at has a tray specifically for cover sheets/messed up prints that don’t have personal information on them and cuts them into fours to use as scratch paper. Anything that could link back to a patron gets put in the paper recycling, though.

      3. Mad Baggins*

        OldJob had two printer trays, one with clean fresh paper and one for one-side-only paper. Some of us took these and made notepads out of them, but it was good to know you could re-print on them with just one click.

    14. writelhd*

      I am the green person at my office-it’s part of my job. The whole office recycling/monitors off/day to day stuff isn’t a huge part of it, it’s more a side thing I can get away with working on every so often more easily than some random person might because it fits within the umbrella of stuff I’m supposed to know about. So people come to with questions like “I have this weird thing, can it be recycled somewhere?” and I collect batteries, CFL light bulbs, and toner cartridges in a place at work that people are allowed to bring in from home to periodically bring to various venues around town that take them. I try not to be the recycling police on people (we do have office recycling) or the styrafoam cub vs reusable cup police on people except occasionally, gently, on people I have a good rapport with as kind of a good natured joke (“hey, I’m going to have to dock you some green points for that styrafoam cup, etc. I don’t make that joke very often at all though, I promise.) I do sometimes take stuff out of trash that’s on top and put it in the recycling.

      For a while I wanted to add in coffee ground composting. Cause we have two coffee machines that get constant use and there’s lots of coffee grounds in the trash. And coffee adds acidity to the soil and I have a blueberry patch at home that could use it, so I put these labeled buckets under the coffee makers for coffee ground compost, right next to the trash can. To my happy surprise, people generally used it!–I’d get two full buckets a week. I only heard a little bit of rumbling that a few people thought it was a little bit gross. I stopped though, because it depending upon me bringing them home to empty every Friday afternoon, or I think the people who thought it was gross would get really bothered, and I’m a very forgetful and absent minded human being who just could not remember to do it reliably on Fridays. So I decided that was not something I could trust myself to do well enough.

    15. Here's My Quirk*

      I can’t stand the sight of yellowed leaves on plants, so I periodically do a “plant maintenance” sweep in our lobby and pull off all the yellowed leaves.

    16. Anonymosity*

      I recycled boxes AT work at OldExjob, since I shipped samples in a wide variety of sizes, and to save money on supplies. I trained everyone to bring me boxes and packing material (except peanuts–I hate those things). I don’t think this is crazy. You might also ask occasionally if anyone needs them for anything (moving, de-cluttering, etc.).

    17. KR*

      We have a lot of homeless people or drifters in our area so we keep our bottles then put them out with a note for someone to cash in who needs the cash more than us. They are always gone within hours. I take home recycling for my bin at home every day because I can’t stand to put it in the trash.

      1. KR*

        Also I save most packing material because my job involves needing to ship things and I hate throwing away bubble wrap and boxes and then needing them a month later and having to buy them. Really helps my shipping budget.

    18. Susan K*

      The admin at my old job used to take people’s mousepads home and clean them. They were the kind with a cloth top, so she would scrub them with dish soap and a toothbrush. She would take a couple at a time and swap them out with the last ones she cleaned.

    19. EB*

      My boss sort of took on being the “green” person in our office– she’s managed to convince leadership to embrace recycling over the years and honest to God– we just got compost bins a couple weeks ago which has been great and people are starting to understand just how much can be composted! Don’t be afraid to at least ask about piloting a program!

    21. Queen of Green*

      Reading all these stories of recycling at work makes my heart happy! Thinking I can put a small bin in my section’s “kitchen” and see how that goes…

    22. Blue Eagle*

      Glad to see so many people take stuff home to recycle. I do the same. Good on ya!

    23. Nacho*

      You have no recycling bins anywhere in your office? That’s kind of weird.

      Is there anybody you could talk to about setting something up?

    24. Luna123*

      I totally used to do that at my old job, where the only recycling bin was the recycling dumpster outside. It was so much easier to flatted & shove used tissue boxes, etc. in my purse and take them home, rather than touching a gross dumpster to just put one little thing in there.

    25. I'm A Little Teapot*

      Incidentally, a massive amount of the recycled materials used to be bought by China. They’ve stopped importing our trash. So a bunch of the things we recycle currently are being dumped in landfills.

      http://money.cnn.com /2018/04/20/news/ china-trash-recycling-environment/index .html

    26. LuJessMin*

      If I could fit it in my lunch bag or tote bag, I would take it home to recycle.

      I loved Christmas time – folks would bring me the bubble wrap and packing peanuts that came in their vendor gifts and I would take it to my favorite place, the glass blowing school in my town for use in packing up glass items that people bought.

    27. Hamburke*

      I work out of my boss’s home. They don’t have recycling pick up. I take as much as I can home with me to go in my recycling bin. I don’t think that’s odd or quirky but then again, I use cloth sandwich bags and refillable bottles almost exclusively.

    28. Rogue*

      I had a former co-worker who did this. She would get upset others never offered to take the recycling home. As long as you realize this is your thing and don’t resent others for not, I think you’re fine to recycle your little heart away.

  10. BRR*

    I work at a nonprofit and we’re going to be hiring soon for a development database manager. One of the most important things we’re looking for is attention to detail because we are currently having issues with data being entered correctly. Any thoughts or recommendations for a skills test? This position is asking from 3-5 years of experience so I don’t want to ask for anything that would come off as condescending.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      How about having them do a trial run with some fake data? Set up a dummy database and walk them through it. Obviously, they know it’s a test, but you can present it more as “This is the kind of thing you would do” than “This is a test.” Even when you’re talking somebody through steps, you can tell a lot about how comfortable they feel around a database and what level of attention to detail they have.

    2. AnonyAnony*

      Do you have any actual work tasks that can be adapted for a test? For example, when hiring for a person to enter gifts and create thank you letters/gift receipts, I mocked up a few receipts and letters (using fake names) and purposely added in some typos and errors that should be easy to catch. Each job candidate was asked to edit the documents so we could gauge attention to detail.

    3. noob*

      Anytime humans are entering data mistakes will get made. I’d be most interested in finding out how they find and correct (okay, or prevent) mistakes. In my work we have audit reports that run constantly that show bad or suspect data, so it can be corrected right away. I’d ask specifically how your candidates handled it.

      1. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

        This – goes along the lines of “what sort of checks do you like to set up and employ to ensure data entry is error free?”. That can tell you a lot of how they may think and consider the data as a whole.

    4. Blossom*

      How about giving them an anonymised sample of real, messy data, and asking them to walk you through how they would approach it if they were given it to input? As well as testing how many problems they spot and what techniques they’d use, it will show you what questions they have. This will help you identify candidates who understand the importance of data quality. They should be asking what each field will be used for, where the data comes from, etc. If this isn’t forthcoming, follow up with some prompts.
      You should also ask how they monitor data quality on an ongoing basis.

      1. Sunshine on a Cloudy Day*

        I had applied for a data entry role a couple of years ago and they gave me a little test just like this. They told me there were 10 “errors” within the data. I had to spot the errors and I also had to fill in some forms based on the raw data given to me.

        The only thing is, I found 11 errors… As far as I knew I had not been disqualified (I had been told they wanted to proceed to the next round, but accepted another job offer that came through before that was scheduled), so I always sort of wondered – did I misinterpret one of the “errors”? Was it is a trick – saying that there were 10 rather 11? Is the person who created it just not good at attention to detail?

        1. Star Nursery*

          Haha, my guess is that the test was looking to see if you caught all 11 errors. I could see it being kind of a trick test.

    5. AnnieAnon*

      Our office sends a skills test before deciding who to bring in for an in-person. For jobs that include a lot of data the main question is typically ‘ highlight potential errors on this spreadsheet’ (numbers in the ethnicity column, birthdays being in the future, results not matching, etc), then also asking the applicant to describe how they would go about fixing these errors, and what they would do to prevent them in the first place.

      1. hambone*

        The job title is more likely saying they’re managing the database, not managing people. Like a social media manager is a person who manages social media accounts, and not necessarily a team of people.

        1. hambone*

          I am just guessing though, their actual job description could be different than what I’m understanding.

      2. BRR*

        Manager is a reference to the seniority level. Data entry would likely be a small part of their overall job, I think noob put it best a couple of responses up, I’m looking more for how they spot and correct.

    7. Serious Sam*

      Sorry, I’m confused. You are recruiting for a Database Manager, and you want them to fix your manual data-entry issues? Beyond writing rigorous sanity checks of every field entered manually, how do you expect them to fix this problem?

      1. BRR*

        The title isn’t finalized yet (and after a couple similar replies I’m going to advocate to use a different one). It would be more of an overall operations role which would include overseeing the database. Our biggest way of fixing this problem was firing the person who was making almost all of the mistakes. I guess my question is more how to check for attention to detail because most people in the department have a little PTSD from how many we were finding.

        1. Autumnheart*

          Something involving the term “data governance” may land you closer to the target of what you’re looking for. Entering data is important, but it sounds like your company also needs to do some thinking around a company standard for how that data is formatted, and to have someone in charge of the standard. And assuming you’re small enough that one person could cleanse the data appropriately (i.e. fix errors and make sure things meet the standard), this is a good time to start thinking about that. It’s a lot easier to develop a standard when you’re small and be able to scale it up, than to wait until you’re big and have tons of data that needs to be cleansed.

        2. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

          This description helps, to me a database manager is totally different that what you are looking for. So I would definitely rethink your title and do some research to find a fitting one.

          I might even suggest Data Analyst. It’s indicative of an individual contributor but within the role could cover a lot of different things, from report writing to scripting to data analysis. The person inputting the data would be closer classified as data entry, so be mindful of the percentage of time for the different tasks.

          I’m sure you can find some accuracy tests on line, but it could be as simple as setting the person down with sample data that they have to transcribe. I think that’s the only way you’re going to be able to determine ability.

          However, I’d be cautious about this. A data analyst will likely be very turned off by this test as it’s going to scream data entry at them. (I was an analyst in former lifetime and would have ended an interview if I was asked to take an accuracy test thinking I was being lured into a data entry bait and switch). That’s why I’d spell out very clearly the role and percentage of time dedicated to data entry vs. other functions.

        3. Visualization Specialist*

          Maybe late to the game, but I’d suggest something like Data Services Manager or Data Operations Manager. Agree that rather than putting them thru an entry test, ask about their processes for implementing data standards, validating entry, auditing, reporting… I’d look for answers along the lines of indentfying patterns in entry errors, working with database specialists to implement validation into the entry process, training entry specialists, best practices to standardize how data is stored…

    8. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      I’m confused the job title and the description that you mention doesn’t seem to fit. Will this person be doing data entry?

    9. HR in the city*

      Do you have a local job service or another company that does employment testing? Where I am there is a local job service that provides tests on different skills so we sent job applicants to them to take a skills test for free. To me it’s fine to make them prove they have the skills they claim to have. I have 15 years office experience and I still had to prove I had Word & Excel skills when I got the job I currently have. We rely heavily on Excel so I don’t think it was condescending to prove that.

    10. ..Kat..*

      Ha, ha, ha. Remember the employer who would tell job interviewees that the interviewer was running behind and give the interviewees a complicated, fussy lunch order to go get? Don’t do this.

  11. Mango Seltzer*

    So I’m in my late 30s and have finally realized that I’m happiest in a job where I’m assembling – that is, I don’t want to come up with an idea and I don’t want to build the pieces of the idea, but I am perfectly content putting those pieces together based on someone else’s instructions. I like being behind the scenes, I like being second in command. My job currently is like this and I like it, but the next step up would mean becoming first in command on a team and I really don’t want that. But I do want to make more money. I just have no idea what sorts of higher-paying positions there are for people who don’t want to be idea people or builders of pieces. My background is in journalism (which I do not want to purse again) and I’m currently working in email marketing. Any suggestions would be appreciated!

      1. Super B*

        I second that. I work as an EA and absolutely love it. High level EAs can make 6 digits where I leave (I don’t because I chose a more laid back job over money) but talk about being behind the scenes getting the work done! I find that kind of work utterly satisfactory without the pressures of managing anyone’s work.

        1. AnonGD*

          Yep! Not only that, in my organization, EAs are highly regarded and respected. I know that’s not true everywhere but it’s definitely possible!

    2. Cheesecake 2.0*

      I’m a project manager and basically all I do is make grand ideas happen for others.

      1. Mango Seltzer*

        I do a lot of project management in my current role and I do like it. I just worry that I don’t have enough experience at it to get a job where that’s *all* I would do.

          1. Autumnheart*

            There is, the PMP. (Project Manager Professional) For details, google “PMP certification your state/country”. One doesn’t have to have a job title of project management, but one does need to rack up a specific number of hours managing projects in addition to passing the certification exam. But PMP certification is a respected and valuable certification.

        2. Cheesecake 2.0*

          If you’re driven, organized, and willing to learn, I don’t think it would matter much to a lot of employers. I have no formal project management training. I’ve been told I do not need any either, to keep my job/progress in my career at this company. We’re hiring another right now and none of our applicants have the PMP certificate and we’re fine with that. It’s mostly about being able to track lots of little things, stay organized, and be effective with communication.

    3. RainyDay*

      When you say you don’t want to be first in command, does that knock out supervisor positions? Because higher level project management jobs absolutely exist, and you should look around to see what’s in your field. I recently got a more “assembly” type job after a stint in creator-land, and discovering it’s not the job for me. I was able to negotiate a significantly higher salary for the project management job, so it’s definitely possible!

    5. Afiendishthingy*

      I need you! I’m good at coming up with ideas and total crap at putting the pieces together. EA sounds right

    6. Argh!*

      There’s no rule that everyone must aspire to move up a ladder. The world is full of people in management who are not cut out for management. If you’re doing what you love, see if you can get a raise where you are or an offer for more money elsewhere. (Or use an offer for more money elsewhere as leverage to get more money where you are)

    7. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      Business Analyst!

      I always loved this role, because I thrive in execution. That and being a project manager has too many rules you have to follow. Basically a BA focuses on requirements and execution while the PM sets the schedule and architects the overall plan.

    8. Trout 'Waver*

      Technical writer? You could write things like patents, manuals, grants, and publications.

    9. justbecause*

      What about being an Assistant Director? I think this is a role where you would be expected to contribute ideas but you might also spend a lot of town helping the Director take big picture ideas to a version where they could be executed.

  12. Wannabe Disney Princess*

    AAARRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH

    Totally just venting today.

    I have a coworker who is making me want to rip my hair out. He’s thrown me under the bus this week so many times, it’s not even funny. Fortunately, I always have an email trail to get myself out from under the bus. This mistakes and errors are always his. He NEVER reads an email you send him. He never checks our online systems. It’s constant inflammatory and aggressive emails. If you point out it’s because he neglected to answer something (I’m always careful to not actually say “it’s your fault”) he goes off the deep end and tries to pin it back on you. He’s just so ridiculously hostile.

    Another admin and I have commiserated – so I know it’s not just me. In fact to let off steam, she’ll forward me email trails she’s copied on with just an “OMG”. Sometimes it’s hostility directed at her. Sometimes it’s peers. Other times it’s clients. He also, actively, antagonizes vendors. Which is only a teensy eensy bit better than actively. attacking the clients.

    Management is copied on the under-bus-throwing emails. I’ve complained to his manager. I’ve complained to my manager (Co-Irker’s GrandBoss). And nothing gets done.

    I enjoy almost everyone else I work with. But I’m pretty sure he’s making my blood pressure and/or anxiety shoot to the moon.

    1. Corky's Wife Bonnie*

      Ugh, that sucks, I’m sorry. Keep doing what you’re doing to be able to prove him wrong. One day it will come back to bite him in the ass. Hang in there!

      1. Brandy*

        yep, once the vendors get tired of his attitude. I cant believe the company allows him to act like this to outside vendors. Its not good to act like this to you, but to vendors, a huge no-no

        1. Wannabe Disney Princess*

          It’s the hostility towards the vendors that really irks me. If he’s hostile to me I can, mostly, ignore it. Shoot a quick text to a friend with a brief vent and then move on my merry way.

          But the vendors? It’s awful. He berated one because HE ordered a product that was new. It wasn’t available to ship for another month (which was not only stated on their website, in the pricing guide, but also the fricken email from the vendor). He lit into them that they needed to figure it out and he wasn’t responsible and this was outrageous and blah blah blah blah.

          So. Not only is he hostile…he makes us look like idiots.

          1. boo bot*

            Does your management know he’s doing this to vendors? I guess it’s not as bad as berating a client (except in the decent-human-being sense) but it’s likely to trash the relationship with the vendor.

    2. Scott*

      Treat the situation as absurd. Like he’s a nutcase. And don’t take any stock in it. There’s always one with a loose screw.

    3. You don't know me*

      I’m sorry you have to deal with this. One of my favorite passive aggressive ways to say “its your fault” is to reply to the email with “as previously mentioned” and then copy paste what was in the original email that he ignored.

    4. Detective Amy Santiago*

      That sounds incredibly frustrating.

      Keep maintaining your own paper trail so you can CYA. Unfortunately, you can’t make the managers take action.

      1. Wannabe Disney Princess*

        Oh, that is the one thing I learned in college. ALWAYS have a paper trail.

        In fact, most people here love that I have said paper trail and will ask me to dig back through. It not only saves my rear but everyone else’s.

        (And yes, I’m still job searching. No new interviews…but a few nibbles on my resume. So a leeeeeetle bit of progress.)

    6. zora*

      I totally commiserate, I have been at the end of my rope with people like that.

      I know you don’t want advice, but one thing you said made me worry. Be REALLLYYYY careful about forwarding email threads back and forth. I have one of those stories where I accidentally sent the “OMG” message TO the person I was complaining about. It was horrible and I still stress about it sometimes. I would suggest screenshotting or switching to a different platform when you are sharing something he said, to reduce the chances of making a mistake. Just a tip from my personal experience!!

      I wish you as many hours free from dealing with him as possible.

        1. zora*

          ok good!! That was really worrying me!
          But here’s an UGH for you, I will join you in being annoyed with this dude. It’s almost the weekend and you can be free from him for 2 days, Yay!!

    7. SavannahMiranda*

      I had a co-worker like this once. It was absolutely infuriating. And like you I reality checked myself to make sure it wasn’t just me. It wasn’t. Like you I also documented, documented, documented. Defended myself, and tried to maintain good relationships in an embattled situation where I didn’t always know who was in her pocket versus who knew the truth.

      It took management at that job about a year to put together the evidence to remove her. Unfortunately, I had left by then. But one of the senior-senior bosses ordered me downstairs for a coffee shop meeting my last week. He told me how sorry he was to see me go, strongly hinted that he knew what was up and was in the loop on what would happen to her but that it was taking time, and gave me a gentle verbal spanking for not talking to him before turning in my notice as he could have assured me of all of this indirectly, and would rather have had me stay.

      Huh. That was validation for sure, but my notice was in and I was on my way out. And honestly, I think some of this comes down to the responsibility of Management to indirectly tell the valuable people in your position that they know what is up and are working on it before valuable people give notice. If they had simply done that the many times I went to them, I wouldn’t have left.

      Losing good people is what comes from not having the tools to eliminate toxic behavior with all due speed. You would not be out of place if you moved on. But I understand being torn and not wanting to leave. And as Allison says, never never turn in a resignation that’s a threat or a bluff. So this is a tough place to be in all around.

      If you ultimately trust your management, consider playing the long game. Continue to relentlessly document, coordinate with others to do so if you can, and continue to politely but firmly maintain the truth of matters. As exhausting as I know that is. If you don’t trust your management, well. That’s a different decision altogether.

    8. Observer*

      Your company is being stupid. Sure, it’s better to antagonize vendors than clients. But not by much. That kind of this can cost you bog time.

  13. anonIT*

    TLDR version: How do you navigate having a manager that doesn’t believe his senior staff and constantly questions them and goes so far as to call them out in conference calls? How do you handle a non technical manager that appears to be VERY offended that his technical team knows more than he does?

    Long version: We are a small group of senior IT administrators in a specialized group. Collectively we have 50+ years of experience in this specialty. We all pull our weight, we know what we’re doing, we don’t shirk our work responsibilities, and we’ve never given anyone cause to believe we’re simply blowing smoke out our butts when a problem falls on our lap. Our manager, Fergus, has taken a turn for the worse and flat out doesn’t believe a thing we say when we’re discussing issues. These are issues we’ve been actively troubleshooting that Fergus will comment and opine on even though he’s so far removed he’s barely on the periphery. When we are on conference calls trying to fix the issue, he will jump in and ask questions that aren’t relevant or ask basic questions that we’ve already established are not the cause hours ago. So when there is a high priority issue (think company can’t sell teapots because the ordering system is down), we end up managing the issue AND him.

    The problem is, he now gets nasty when you respond to his questions to tell him no, it’s not that. It was so bad in a recent call that Fergus described the call as “tense” but it was he himself that caused the tension when I had to stop him from hashing out a troubleshooting part that our group had already done and communicated to all involved so the meeting could be productive. He also kept asking the same questions to multiple team members because he personally did not like our technical conclusions, even with the vendor explicitly stating that the configuration we have is not supported.

    We don’t know what to do. We can’t be admins if he gets upset when we discuss technical fact. We can’t be taken seriously by other groups if he constantly questions what steps we take or flat out argues with us that we’re wrong. We were going to try to have a “come to Jesus” meeting and discuss these problems but I’m afraid he will flip out or turn it back on us (he’s great at gaslighting like that) and the situation will escalate further. Not only that, but we’ll also have to deal with constant snide off hand remarks that he “knows nothing”, even though not one of us has said anything remotely like that.

    It’s to the point that this is impacting his own view of my performance. How can I possibly fight back against a performance review that questions my communication skills when communicating with him in the first place with no raised voices etc causes him to flip out????

    I’ll take whatever advice I can get, but please don’t say find a new job because I am very aware that will be the end result for myself and others if this doesn’t change. Either that or I’ll be “laid off”.

    1. Grits McGee*

      How much information is Fergus coming into these meetings with? I wonder if it would help to have someone sit down with him ahead of time to go through the basics of the problem so that he’s not derailing meetings with questions and misapprehensions. It also sounds some of this might be the result of feeling insecure about his lack of technical knowledge, so maybe feeling a little bit more confident about understanding what’s going on would help with the non-technical communication issues. Is there anyone that you work with that seems to have a better rapport with Fergus?

      1. anonIT*

        Little to none. Since these are spur of the moment IT issues, we don’t know what we’re getting into until we’re on the call (nature of the beast). These are troubleshooting calls and high pressure to get it fixed ASAP. I agree it appears to be a lack of knowledge but with his refusal to even listen it’s not like he wants to even try to understand. Over the past six months he’s singlehandedly destroyed all trust we have and the times we’ve tried to bring this to him he acts as if it’s impossible for him not to be deeply involved and gets very upset that we’d even suggest this.

        So talking to him is like talking to an angry wall.

        I do want to elaborate a bit though: we’re not saying he shouldn’t be involved/informed because we all communicate when there’s a problem and he is on all of those emails. We need him to stop backseat driving. That probably won’t happen so I need to figure out how to cope because it’s getting tremendously insulting/frustrating.

      1. anonIT*

        That’s what I’m weighing now and might be our best option. We’re not sure though. His manager subscribes to the “manage with conflict to produce the best results” so not sure how much help that would be…

        1. Short & Dumpy*

          Short answer: Get out. Get out NOW.

          Long Answer: That’s how I dealt with a manager who didn’t trust an entire group of specialists because they told him the correct answers instead of the incredibly wrong…not to mention illegal…answers he wanted. I fought it for 3 yrs and some situations you will never be able to improve. When the next level above thinks conflict is a GOOD thing?! (yes, I’m familiar with the theory but I’ve very very rarely seen it implemented effectively…it only works if your people are disposable and/or ‘teams’ temporary) You aren’t going to get support there and it may well make things much, much worse.

          1. Short & Dumpy*

            Sorry…I know you said don’t tell me to find a new job but I just haven’t ever seen this turn out to be ‘fixable’ :( (I sure wish it would have been at my last job…I *loved* that community, job, my house, everything about it except a manager who was impossible to succeed under and repeatedly landed us in court.)

            1. anonIT*

              Thanks I really do appreciate the response!! I kinda view this as a scale and right now there are too many positives to tip the scale into the “I need to start looking now” bucket but it’s on the back of my mind :/

            2. Observer*

              And your idiot management wouldn’t stop him?

              The first time could be an honest mistake. After that? They DESERVED to be in court.

        2. Good, Cheap, or Soon. Pick Two.*

          I think your best shot with his manager may be to lead in with the vendor issue. Point out that what Fergus said was directly contrary to what the vendor said, that you’re concerned that this kind of behavior may alienate your vendor, and that the tone certainly didn’t help. Build from there; don’t sound like you’re calling for his head but you can definitely point out that he’s been trying to micromanage in a way that is having a direct, negative impact on the technical team and that it’s making part of said boss’ domain look bad.

          Generally, managers who are only interested in the best results are big on image. Point out that something is making them look bad and you can sometimes get some results. Unfortunately, I think you’re best bet is going to be a well written resume and great cover letters. Managing styles like Fergus don’t exist in a vacuum. Especially if his boss thinks conflict is going to get him shining stars. Even if you solve this problem, there are just going to be more fires to put out in that forest.

        3. Observer*

          I agree about getting out.

          But do make sure that what’s going on is known up the chain. You want it to be CLEAR that you and your team are doing your jobs. Because if your grandboss refuses to to take action, he clearly doesn’t realize that, at least in this case, conflict is NOT going to get him the results he wants. And when (not if) something goes wrong he’s going to try to turn this on you. So, keep him looped in and document your heads off to protect yourself till you get out.

    3. Kess*

      I suspect your manager and you have significantly different views of his role. Based on his behaviour, he probably thinks that as the team manager he should be involved and potentially taking a lead role in dealing with key issues and in meetings, whereas you refer to him as on the periphery and talk about stopping him during meetings. Even if you haven’t explicitly said that he knows nothing, if you shut him down every time he tries to ask questions or be involved in the discussion he’s bound to get this impression. I would likewise suspect that the way you react to his attempts to participate are also what he’s referring to when he critiques your communication skills – even if you aren’t raising your voice, he may still feel you are very negative or harsh.

      Now, I’m not trying to say he’s totally in the right – if he can’t handle hearing answers that aren’t what he wants to hear, that’s obviously a problem. However, the fact is you can’t determine what your manager’s role is. If he wants to be involved, trying to shut him down/out is unlikely to end well for you. It might be worth considering if or how you can enable him to feel more informed and involved in a way that won’t get in your way as much, as well as considering how your tone is coming across when you respond to his questions or suggestions.

      1. anonIT*

        I don’t think there’s any confusion regarding his role – he’s been doing this for 10+ years. Nothing has changed in that regard. And we’re not trying to shut him out – we just need him to stop backseat driving or at least figure out how to deal with it. The problem is we do answer all his questions and no matter what we say he either 1) does not believe us (which is so incredibly condescending) or 2) gets upset that we contradict him and tell him no, we’ve already checked this and its not that. It’s a technical problem – there’s really no sugarcoating or politic playing.

        I can’t really give a great example because this is so IT specific, but think if you went to a car mechanic because your car isn’t starting, then standing behind him asking if he checked every little periphery item and then getting upset when he tells you “no, the car has gas” or something similar. That’s as best an analogy I can give.

        1. Jules the Third*

          There is *always* politic playing, any time you have two people interacting. You were polite in refuting Kess, but not open to hearing what Kess had to say. If you treat your manager like this, over time, he will get frustrated, and the relationship will start to become adversarial, as he tries to stay relevant.

          There’s a *huge* difference between, ‘we tried that already. next suggestion?’ and ‘Thanks for mentioning that, boss. When we tried it, we got X result, which showed us it wasn’t the problem. X result indicates the problem’s probably over here.’

          This is a political / politeness difference; the first is goal-focused but dismissive, the second demonstrates respect for your boss. It takes a little longer, but it might actually get you around his other delays and make the whole process faster.

          You can also do some training sessions with the whole team including the manager where you review common problems you may face, and the *process* for solving them, and ask if people see places where the process should change. As a signal of respect, you could tell him before the training that you’ll ask this, and that you’d like to start by asking him, directly – to ‘get the ball rolling’ and ‘give the team an example.’ Make sure that you accept at least one of his suggestions.

          Different people need different kinds of communication / handling. I’m shifting from working with a bunch of engineers to a new team; the engineers, I could be straight and simple. The new batch, I have to make sure they hear me acknowledge their position, hear ‘thank you’ even if it’s just for doing their job, etc. It’s more work, but it’s what will get the new team to actually work instead of spending hours on passive-aggressive or defensive emails.

        2. Brownie*

          It may be worth looking at what he’s doing from a control standpoint. It sounds a lot like every hands-on “I need to feel involved and in control” boss I’ve had starts acting when they’re out of their depth in a technical setting. And you’re totally right, it comes across as not trusting the technical people and that leads to a deep dark hole of resentment where the technical people start ignoring and shunning the manager.

          My new boss recently started embarking down the Fergus path and I ended up going into a one-on-one with him and asking him “Fergus, do you have questions or doubts about my technical qualifications?” He instantly responded in the negative and was shocked that I’d even ask that of him. When he asked why I’d asked I responded that he’d been second-guessing my deductions and statements in calls and meetings and now I was confused and could he please clarify why he was questioning my knowledge like that. After that one on one he stopped second-guessing me and started taking more of a back seat managerial organizer role which helps my team since we need a manager, not another technical person.

        3. WannaAlp*

          You said he’d recently taken a turn for the worse. But he’s been doing this job for 10+ years. So it sounds like he hasn’t always been doing this backseat driving?

          Maybe something has happened in his life that is having a bad effect on him, to have this change. Would it be worth someone (not sure whether you, or someone else like a friend of his, or his manager) asking about whether everything is ok in his life and what has happened to him that he used to be ok at managing and now he has turned into this backseat driver? Someone with tact and caring and who can pick the right words to say to him. Maybe there’s something going on behind this, something that could be addressed?

    4. Logan*

      We had a boss problem recently – quite a few of us mentioned it to GrandBoss with specifics on how it affected our work. He was moved to a special project within weeks.

  14. Peaches*

    Just an update…I wrote in last Friday about wanting to meet with my boss about transitioning roles.

    We are meeting next Tuesday….super nervous, but excited for the possibilities. Wish me luck!

    1. nailed second interview!*

      Good luck! And congratulations on opening the conversation to start with, that’s huge!

    4. Is pumpkin a vegetable?*

      GOOD LUCK!! Make sure you are well prepared, and anticipate any questions/concerns s/he may have.

  15. nailed second interview!*

    Job search is going great! One issue I need help with, though. I did nail the second interview, provided my range, and a month later have just received a job description … which does not entirely line up with both what I thought we were discussing re the position and what I want to do next (current job is in a pretty toxic org but stable enough that I want to move for a great step up, not just the first thing to come along).

    Anyone have advice for opening the conversation to negotiating the job description? They’re creating a brand new position for me, here, so I think there’s /some/ negotiation room but have never done this before!

    1. kbeers0su*

      I think you could come back with a very matter-of-fact “Thanks for sending this info along. Based on our previous conversations I was under the impression that the role would have a heavy focus on A, B, and C with only some responsibility for D and E. The description you attached seems to prioritize those a bit differently. Will there be a chance to discuss this in more concrete terms as we move forward in the process?”

  16. Tracery*

    I have just recorded my first EP :) 5 tracks of traditional songs. Spotted a couple of mistakes on the way home so may have to go back and tweak, but overall I’m pleased (and excited!)
    Launching in August, woohoo!

    1. Inspector Spacetime*

      Congrats! What kind of music is it? What do you mean by “traditional songs”?

    3. Batshua*

      You’re gonna tell us how to get it, right?

      I’m especially interested if you do murder ballads. :D

  17. Susan K*

    What is the etiquette on chewing tobacco at work? I have some coworkers who chew tobacco, and I find it disgusting. I don’t care if they do it at home, but I don’t want to see it. There’s one guy on my team who does it at lunch and during meetings while sitting right next to me, and the sound of him hocking the tobacco into his water bottle makes me gag (and seeing it is even worse, though I try not to look at it).

    Am I just being a snob, or is it kind of rude to subject coworkers to the sights and sounds of tobacco chewing? Would it be reasonable to ask this guy not to do it around me? If so, what’s a better way of saying, “That’s disgusting; please stop.”?

    1. beanie beans*

      The smells and sounds are SO GROSS! Our non-smoking policies actually include chewing tobacco. I’m sorry, I have no advice, just my deepest sympathy.

    2. Mrs. Psmith*

      My husband dips and I find it disgusting. I made him start using opaque containers because he was using water bottles (or spitting in the toilet and not flushing, gag) and it made me nauseated to see it.
      However, for the work part of your question, I’ve had coworkers who used chewing tobacco and it was banned from the workplace per the companywide smoking policy. Even smokeless tobacco products were on the list, so you had to do it outside on an actual “smoke break.” You might want to check your company’s policy.

    3. DCGirl*

      I’ve seen employee handbooks that forbid it, let’s put it that way. It’s not the same as chewing gum, no matter what its proponents say.

    5. You don't know me*

      That is so disgusting of him. There are so many better ways he could handle this. I occasionally work with a chewer and I didn’t even know he was doing it the first couple of times we met! He had a coffee cup with him and I thought he was just sipping his beverage but it was actually his spit cup. He was so discreet about it.

      Does you company have a tobacco policy? At an old job the policy was very specific. You were not permitted to use tobacco of any kind on company property, including chewing tobacco.

      1. Susan K*

        I’m not sure if there’s a policy about chewing tobacco. I know smoking is prohibited everywhere except designed smoking areas, but I’ll have to check and see if there are any rules about where chewing tobacco is allowed.

      2. Bea*

        OMG the coffee cup tho, I hope it’s one he cleans himself and doesn’t just leave caked in the sink. *cries*

    6. Midlife Tattoos*

      Yeah, if your company doesn’t have a policy against this, I would approach your manager about adding it. It’s a very offensive habit, and having bottles/cups of someone’s nasty saliva hanging around is unsanitary.

    7. LCL*

      We have two people that I know of in our group who chew. I also find it disgusting. One person is discreet and never does it around others. The other person always has a chew and a bottle. He is always careful to dispose of his bottles, but, God, it’s revolting. Chewing is definitely against our rules, but I haven’t picked that battle yet. I suppose if someone complained I would have to do something. I would start by reminding him of the rules.

    8. katkat*

      I think it’s seriously rude. I think people should do it at their desks, or take a break elsewhere to use it. I realize it takes longer than a smoke break for a cigarette, but I do not want to see your spit (or hear it).
      A lot of my coworkers use it (like, at least 50%). And they do it in meetings, putting a dip in and then talking around it while they contribute to the meeting! I think it’s more considerate to use a paper cup or opaque bottle to spit, but a lot of them use a clear water bottle so I can see it all. Not cool.
      I think, especially during lunch, you would be completely right to say, “hey the sound of spitting really bothers me, especially while I’m eating. Is there a chance you could do that elsewhere or wait until the meeting is over?” That’s reasonable.

      1. Susan K*

        Part of the problem is that we are not allowed to have food, beverages, or tobacco in our regular work area, so the only opportunities he has to chew at work are in the break room or the conference room. And he uses a clear water bottle so I get to see all the tobacco spit every time I accidentally look in his direction.

    10. TotesMaGoats*

      This brings back horrible memories of my high school job at a hardware store. Skeevy manager+chewing tobacco=Grossed out on several levels. We’d have to go to the nearby gas station and buy soda bottles (at least with his money) so he could have something to spit into all day.

      Ewww. Write that into the no smoking policy.

    11. katkat*

      I just commented saying that several of my coworkers do this, but then some of the other replies got me thinking – so I looked for a policy, and ours clearly states that any tobacco has to be used in designated areas. There are a huge number of people that don’t follow this. Can I do something to address it (does being a fairly junior woman working with mostly men have an impact?).

      1. Queen of Cans & Jars*

        You could certainly bring it up with HR or a manager who would be involved in enforcing handbook rules. It would be on them to decide if they really want to fight that battle, tho. And I think that being a junior woman working with mostly men would mean you’d absolutely feel some blowback from the guys who are having their dipping curtailed. :( Not fair, but probably a reality.

        1. Arjay*

          The minute they decided not to “fight that battle” is the minute I’d decide the rest of the handbook was optional too.

    12. That would be a good band name*

      It’s included in our “no tobacco” policy. I would rather someone actually smoke next to me than chew. (Not that I think people should be doing either at their desk at work.) Those spit cups are just so disgusting.

    13. Anonymosity*

      GROSS
      A couple of my coworkers at OldExjob did it, in the office, but they were very discreet about it. One used a soda can and the other an opaque cup. I couldn’t smell it or I would have complained. Not that it would have done any good.

      Personally, I think it shouldn’t be done in the office. (It’s also a complete dealbreaker for dating anyone. I don’t care if you look like Chris Hemsworth; smoking or dipping is a hard no.)

      1. Susan K*

        I used to have a coworker who spit into a soda can and often left it sitting on the break room table. I lived in fear of accidentally mixing up my soda with his spit can at lunch.

        1. Creeping Around Dagobah*

          As someone who accidentally drank a friends cigarette butt once, your fear is justified.
          Pretty sure that is when I swore of soda.

    14. Careers and jobs tool O-netonline*

      People I know who chew don’t do it at work at all. They know that spitting in front of colleagues/clients is not an option. I’m surprised your management hasn’t brought a stop to this.

    15. KayEss*

      Well, there is a significant chance that in your shoes I would wind up literally vomiting on him, but going out of your way to do that on purpose is probably a last-ditch option.

    16. What's with today, today?*

      We used to have an employee who always had dip in his mouth and a spit bottle. So gross.

    17. Catalin*

      The etiquette is NO, NO, NO THIS IS NEVER APPROPRIATE IT IS SOOOOOO GROSS. I would literally throw up if I saw/smelled that at work. Might not make it to the bathroom.

      I realize I’m extra sensitive to smells, but I think my reaction here is fairly universal.

      Gotta do something else, actually getting gaggy now.

    18. Aphrodite*

      Gah, I hate to say this but I’d find this so repulsive I would end up probably vomiting the first time he was sitting in a meeting next to me and did that. It wouldn’t be intentional but I can feel my stomach just reading this. (Kind of like finding a hair in my food; there are just some things that set off my automatic gag reflex and require an immediate run to the bathroom.)

      I have no suggestions, just a lot of sympathy.

  18. Amylou*

    Last night I got a LinkedIn request from an HR person from a company I interviewed at 3,5 years ago. A bit odd, and probably an accidental address book add? I don’t know…

    Anyway, it just reminded me of that situation. Basically, I interviewed for an entry-level/traineeship job, and it went extremely well, had a very good rapport, very nice conversation with the people there, rocked the intelligence test.

    I then got a call a day later with a job offer, conditional on an external assessment. I went to the assessment done by an external company, and it just didn’t go well… the place was out in the sticks, and hard to get to. I had never done an assessment before (by now I’ve read up on them and done more and would feel a little bit more comfortable doing one).

    It consisted of an interview, more personality and IQ tests, a role play mimicking the kind of tasks you’d be doing (advising clients), and in the end the external agency gave a negative advice, mostly based on the roleplay exercise I feel in hindsight. It was (with my permission) sent to the company, but I never ever heard back from the company – like not even a short rejection call or email! And this HR person had already sent me the job offer and all the details.

    And now a LinkedIn invite to remind me of that! In hindsight, I don’t think the industry would have totally been my thing, but I could’ve done a good job there. Even now, I think I would definitively have had the qualities and competences to do a great job there. But no regrets there. My career’s gone into an entirely different direction and one which I love. But when I looked up the HR person’s name in my gmail inbox, I ended up rereading the report and the emails today, and I feel I would have approached or thought about the situation differently than I have today.

    The position was advising clients about rather complex matters – and one for which you had to pass lots of exams and certifications BEFORE you’re even allowed to do any of that advising. But the roleplay was exactly about that – it was talking to a client over the phone about a rather complex matter with zero knowledge about the subject matter. In the report they wrote I didn’t go deep enough into the issue, didn’t consider the long-term consequences of my proposed solution. Reading it now, it feels a bit like a ‘set-up’. Maybe that was the intention (I know that’s the case in some of these things), but it just doesn’t feel right. I did hit the personality profile on lots of points and lots of good points on other things. But in the end, a negative advice, mostly based on the roleplay from what I can see.

    So yeah, not a fan of assessments in general. I haven’t done too well at them. I think it’s a combination of introvertedness and having a hard time conveying enthusiasm (as in “I am definitely enthusiastic / interested in X, but I have a hard time actually *showing* that enthusiasm to an interviewer/assessor” – something I’ve read on AMA before), unnatural situations and stress, my general inability and dislike of role-playing…

    And I think it’s hard and not always fair to use these for entry-level positions and people new to the workforce. Some qualities or competences can grow or be developed over time, especially if you’re applying for an entry-level/trainee position straight out of college. I also always have the feeling these assesments are a bit biased towards extraverted people or people with acting experience ;)

    Finally, thinking about it now, what really irked me about the above situation, was that everyone else was so enthusiastic, but nothing about that didn’t seem to count after the negative assessment: both the interviewers seemed positive, my would-be manager who walked me to the exit seemed very enthusiastic, the fact they called the day after with the conditional job offer, etc. and then not a peep after the report was sent. It was a silent rejection, basically I was ghosted!

    In a different universe, when I would have had more self-confidence at the time, I maybe would have stuck up for myself more and called to get an explanation. But I was so down and out and depressed and job searching for over half a year, I somehow didn’t manage to do even that…

    /rant over ;)

    1. kbeers0su*

      That makes me wonder of the company actually discussed with the external folks what they wanted out of the interview. They may have not had input or only given minimal parameters, and the external folks may have taken it to that level (focusing on minutae) instead of focusing on the bigger “can they advise a client well.” That’s the problem with outsourcing- if you’re not really clear about what you want/need it’s up for interpretation.

      1. Amylou*

        Yes, that may have been the case. I like how you put that. I can see how this exercise could have worked for someone with a bit more knowledge/experience. They could’ve picked a different, more familiar and realistic case for a total newbie (as in not industry related but using the same/similar skills/competences in a client/customer advising situation ), rather than something that would just never ever happen in real life.

  19. Sunflower*

    How does hr work with hiring managers at your companies?

    I am a mid level manager, and usually hr would get candidates in and handle the administrative aspects of recruiting. Now we have a new recruiter and she wants things to work differently. She wants to get final approval on all hires. She also wants me to give her a salary range and she will negotiate and decide where the candidate fits in the range. Usually I would give her a number and if the candidate wanted more I would handle the negotiations. She also has complaints about not getting enough of a vote and her opinions not being taken seriously enough in the process. If I nix a candidate she likes she gets mad.

    I am obviously going to be speaking with other managers and her boss about getting on the same page, but am curious about the role of hr elsewhere.

    1. Lumos*

      This sounds not right, if that gives you any solace. Does she have an understanding of what you need and what people who can fill that position are worth? She seems like she would be unequipped to handle all of that without in-depth knowledge of what you do.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      At the big corp where I work, the hiring manager has final say in hiring decisions, but HR sets the pay rates based on some set of criteria.

      1. pleaset*

        “At the big corp where I work, the hiring manager has final say in hiring decisions, but HR sets the pay rates based on some set of criteria.”

        Same at my small organization. I think they could veto choices in extreme conditions, but definitely doesn’t make picks.

    3. Judy (since 2010)*

      In larger companies, HR would certainly have a say about compensation, because they are responsible to make sure that the pay is fair. I’ve mostly only talked with HR about the pay, so negotiations are with them. Quite possibly HR would have rare “veto” abilities about candidates, but not a vote about candidates in general. (HR veto ability due to background check, etc.)

    4. LCL*

      HR does the prescreening and administers the process. The hiring manager does have the final say, but HR has to approve it.

        1. LCL*

          Mm, more like HR blesses the final selection. If you ask them, they say the decision is up to the hiring managers, they just make sure the process is administered fairly and in compliance with applicable laws and regulations.

          1. NorCalifHR*

            This. My HR team and I screen resumes to make sure the candidate has most of the essential skills (no such thing as a unicorn!), provides the hiring manager with a base compensation range as a starting point, and sits in on the final round interviews to both field benefit questions, and provide another set of eyes/guts evaluating cultural fit.

            We do screen out folks with few/no essential skills, failure to follow recruiting guidelines (send resume in MS Word to email.address), fails to respond to interview invitations, and similar issues. The only time we veto a candidate is on the basis of lying on the application, background check fail, or drug test fail. We view hiring as ‘rolling the dice’ and understand that the manager knows the job and the department better.

    5. designbot*

      I’d try to get down to why she thinks these steps are necessary—does she not feel great about the hires themselves, is she under budget pressure, or is it just what she’s used to?
      My company’s process is that he forwards me a bunch of candidates through a pretty loose filter. Myself and one other team member respond saying which ones we want to see and hr sets up interviews. We interview them and then tell hr if we want them and where we see them fitting into our team—they’re more experienced than rickon but not as much as Sansa, etc. if there’s any problems coming to an agreement or they see themselves differently we’ll touch base again and see if anything more makes sense. We don’t even talk hard numbers, just position and experience compared to existing team members . Hr does all the hard numbers. It’s a little weird but I’m also kind of glad that I don’t know individual salaries.

    6. Schnoodle*

      I’ll do the front end screening of resumes, then phone screening if Hiring Manager is busy. I’d go over a few questions with them depending on if it’s a position I haven’t done this with or whatnot. From there I’ll schedule the top X candidates into the HM’s calendar. Sometimes I’m in on the interview, sometimes not.

      That said, HR can smell a PITA a mile away. As I’m sure some managers can too. So it’s good to have a conversation over the candidates with HR to get their feel too.

      I do think the recruiter you have is a little sensitive and somehow thinks she knows how’s best for every job which is ridiculous to me…I know in general what most jobs do here but I WANT someone who’s on the floor or field or whatever to get their take if the candidate has the skill and personality for a potential fit.

      Then I do New Hire Orientation and the paperwork and send them off.

    7. Anon for now*

      Why would a new recruiter have the authority to change the way hiring is done? That does not sound right at all.

    8. Snowglobe*

      Nope. That would not fly at all here. HR screens candidates (based on what the hiring manager says they are looking for), refers top candidates to the hiring manager who selects those she wants to interview. Hiring manager makes the finsl pick. HR provides the salary range, but hiring manager decides how much to pay within that range.

      The only way HR would get more involved is if there was a concern about something like discrimination. Even then, it would likely just be to raise the issue and make sure hiring manager justifies and documents their decision. HR does not have enough specific knowledge about what skills are needed to make the best decision.

    9. Kittymommy*

      Here HR would definitely be involved in this, and without fail the compensation aspect would be handled mostly by them if it’s being asked outside if the applicable range. The manager would have final say on a hire (but not on salary outside if range), but he would have input.

    10. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

      I’ve only ever seen this from a candidate/employee perspective, but HR pre-screens resumes, the hiring manager reviews and decides who to interview and ultimately who to hire. When I started a year ago, I negotiated my salary with my manager, but by the time my colleague was hired a month later they’d changed the process so she negotiated with HR. I actually think that’s the better policy; it didn’t exactly start me out on the best foot when I asked my soon-to-be manager to bump the salary and he literally just said “no”.

      1. designbot*

        that’s part of why I don’t mind not handling the money as a manager—I don’t want any contentiousness in the relationship coming in if someone hears that I don’t think they’re ‘worth’ what they think they’re worth. It’s nice for it just to be, I’m glad to have you here, you accepted terms upon which you agreed to be here, as long as you keep performing well I’ll keep advocating for nice things for you.

    11. Evil HR Person*

      Um, she doesn’t get a vote… she’s not the hiring manager, you are. She’s the finder, you’re the keeper. WTF?

      That said, the only way I can see this being a thing is if she’s trying to implement an affirmative action or a diversity plan, in which case she needs to make it clear what it is she’s doing. If her first choice is Jane, who is a woman and black, and your first choice is John, who is a man and white, and they both look the same on paper, then it would make sense for your recruiter to put the brakes on your hiring preferences – all within the context of trying to implement some kind of plan, which you should have been made privy to.

      As for the money side, I’ve seen HR be completely in charge and I’ve seen it take more of a consulting role. At my ex-job, HR was in charge of what we offered because we benchmarked all salaries to the geographical region, the person’s skill and education, their experience, etc. That gives you a pretty fair comp package to offer employees in a large company. At my job now, it’s a smaller company, so the hiring managers know the market rates and what the company can afford to bring on the new employee. Since I’m a department of one, I let them make the final decisions – only inserting my advice if it’s way off the mark, though it rarely is.

      All in all, a brand new recruiter wouldn’t (and couldn’t) know your company enough to be inserting her preferences willy-nilly. She can *eventually* update the way you do things in the company, IF it makes sense in the grand scheme of things… but she first needs to understand the grand scheme and if she’s new-ish (think, less than one year into her role), then I don’t think that’s possible. I think you can safely talk with her boss and raise your concerns.

    12. NW Mossy*

      “If I nix a candidate she likes she gets mad.”

      I’m sorry, but that is some grade-A nonsense right there. Your opinion of a candidate can and should count for much more than hers. You know the job you want this person to do, the skills they’ll need, the team dynamic, and the kind of dynamic you aim for with your directs. This is stuff that you can only understand in-depth if you, you know, manage the role in question. She can easily like someone who’d be a terrible fit for you, so her approval is not a good metric for whether or not a candidate is a good hire.

      She’s coming off a bit like someone who wants to claim a lot more power than is probably appropriate for the role she has, and it’s going to come back to bite her if she loses credibility with the people she’s supposed to be supporting. She’s the one that needs a recalibration.

    13. nk*

      “She also has complaints about not getting enough of a vote and her opinions not being taken seriously enough in the process. If I nix a candidate she likes she gets mad.”

      Oh nooooo. No way is that her job. I work in finance, and HR is absolutely not qualified to be doing actual selection! Our HR pre-screens candidates, and recently they’ve really added value by doing proactive LinkedIn recruiting to get candidates who weren’t actively looking. We’ve recently made a couple good hires this way. But once they pass along the resumes, it’s all on the hiring manager(s) to select who to interview and make final decisions on candidates (other than background check-related issues, of course). HR schedules the interviews.

      Comp is a bit of a collaboration, as I work for a very large company that has some pre-determined ranges. But the hiring manager gets sign-off on the amount and may provide input on negotiations (though HR generally takes care of the direct communication with the candidate as it pertains to negotiation, and keeps the hiring manager closely looped in).

  20. Lumos*

    We have a three step clock-in process that irritates me. They moved all the computers that were on the same floor as the building entry. So we have to enter the building, go up the stairs to a computer, log in to the computer, then we have to open and log into our time keeping software, and then we’re not clocked in until we hit a button. This is incredibly annoying, especially since the computers take forever to load (because so many different people use them.) and you can miss the clock-in window because you were standing in front of the computer waiting for it or the program to load. We all have to badge in to the building and we’ve asked about whether it would be possible to clock-in that way and we were told yes it was possible, but no it wouldn’t happen. Arghhhh

    1. You don't know me*

      That does sound irritating! They aren’t docking you pay if you are logged in late because of this are they? I’m not a lawyer but I seem to remember Comcast had to pay a class action to their employees because they were required to come into work 10 minutes early to log into the system so they could actually start work exactly on time.

      If you are in the building and in front of the computer at your start time, then you should not be docked pay because it takes the computer too long to get started.

      1. Lumos*

        If we clock in late we have to take a short lunch or stay late to make up the time. I can occasionally get my supervisor to adjust the punch, since if I clocked in 5 seconds past the window, I was obviously in the building and at a computer at the right time, but I definitely feel that’s not an argument I can make very often. (it happens to me about once a month)

        1. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

          That would be enough to make me start looking for a new job if they refuse to fix it. Petty unreasonable-ness like that really makes me angry.

    3. NotaPirate*

      Do you have computers that you do work on that stay in the building? Could you load the timekeeping software on those machines? I’d approach the discussion with your boss as a we’d get more work done if we weren’t all lining up at a machine, and also as then you know this is when people are at their desks ready to work, more accurate.

      1. Lumos*

        We all have it on our profiles, but we have to log in as ourselves before we can access it. The closest computers are one floor up from where we enter, and only a few of us have individual desk computers and those are located three floors up from where we enter.

    4. whistle*

      That sounds infuriating!! I would probably keep pushing on this and it would be a hill for me to die on. I cannot stand policies that basically boil down to “if you’re not early, you’re late.” I am a very punctual and timely person, and I get stressed out if I am late for something, but that basically means I take deadlines very seriously in both directions – if it’s due at 5 it’s not due at 4:55 (and 5:05 is late).

      Anyway, this set up sounds illegal to me, especially since your clock in time is delayed by the computer being slow, but ianal, and I’m not sure if that’s the angle to push.

      I would suggest approaching your boss from the perspective of “of course the company will find a way to make sure that employees are able to clock in promptly and easily.”

      For example, the next time the computer delays push you out of the clock-in window (I assume you have to find a manager when this happens in order to clock in?), say to the manager, “How do I make sure my clock-in time is recorded as (e.g.) 8:00 am instead of 8:08? I was ready to clock in at 8:00 but the computer wouldn’t load, which is of course out of my control.”

    5. Ciara Amberlie*

      Seconding Whistle in that this would be a hill to die on for me. They’re asking you to work for free (by coming in early to be sure that you’re clocked in on time) because the system that they’re choosing to use is not fit for purpose.

      They could either upgrade the computers so that they can load much more quickly, or they can use an alternative system (like using the badge entry times). They can’t expect you to be there, unpaid, to mitigate the delay in the current system. There have definitely been lawsuits about this exact issue, and it did not go well for the employers.

    6. That would be a good band name*

      My former employer had to pay out a TON due to an issue that is pretty close to this. Employees had to have their computer on, and several programs pulled up, before they could actually clock in and start having their time record. They were required by the department of labor to put in a way for people to be paid for the time it takes to turn on the computer and pull up the programs.

    7. Frankie*

      Yep, I had to do that in a big high rise! You had to “punch” your time on your personal computer. So you got all the way up to your floor, badged in, made it all the way to your desk, and had to get booted, logged in and loaded in the HR system to start your day. It was only for hourly folks, so only some of us had to do it, and it was routine office work and the punching system made no sense for anyone in the company. Especially stressful as I relied on public transit that was pretty good, but not something you can clock to the minute. HATED it, but since none of the higher-ups had to do it it never changed.

      1. Lumos*

        A large number of us are salary, so you’re right in that the higher ups likely don’t care since it doesn’t apply to them.

    8. SavannahMiranda*

      Oh. Oh dear. Oh my. I wonder if they realize they are potentially opening themselves to legal action.

      Lawsuits are always always jurisdiction and fact-specific. Meaning just because Attorney Google returns fascinating results for “time clock lawsuit” that sound like your situation (ahem, Dollar Tree litigation, ahem) does not mean your state courts would see the facts of your situation the same. Not at all.

      But labor laws have not kindly handled employers with arduous clock-in systems. Especially when an alternate, effective system is already available in the key cards, and the employer has expressed that they know it.

      You have my greatest sympathy. Perhaps it helps simply to be aware you’re not alone by reading those Google results. Perhaps it’s worth taking up the chain. Threats never end well so it would have to be handled extremely carefully.

      If you’re inclined to go down any of those roads, talk to a labor law attorney first. Initial consultations are frequently free. And just because you have a chat doesn’t mean you’re required to pursue it. Initial consultations are for purposes of education. An attorney is the only one who can give you a sense of how your fact pattern would fare in your jurisdiction. No one else can, period. No shooting from the hip on this.

  21. KatieKate*

    Just got word that my promotion and raise went through! It’s 10%, which isn’t much monetarily at my level, but it gives my budget room to breathe so I’m really happy about that. I may join a gym! :)

  22. Bibliovore*

    Out sick for most of the week. Still weak and fuzzy.
    Any advice for pacing oneself and quelling the panicked feeling of everything that needs to get done?

    1. Wannabe Disney Princess*

      I have a sticky note on my computer that reads, “I’m a human not a machine.” And when I feel myself start to freak out, I recite it in my head. Just reinforces the fact that I am one person and there are only so many hours in the day. I’ll get one what I’m physically able to and there’s no shame in that.

    2. RabidChild*

      This is something I learned in a time management class years ago that I use to this day when I am in crunch mode and feeling overwhelmed by work: make a to do list. When you get back, don’t allow yourself to answer any emails or phone messages, just take a legal pad and write everything down. You can then go through your list and prioritize, then buckle down and get to work.

      Doing this helps me keep my anxiety about the sheer volume of work I have to do at bay, because i know exactly what needs my attention, what I might put off for a day, or what I can delegate. It is also immensely satisfying to cross things off that list! I hope it helps you too.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Remind yourself that part of the panic is because you are still recuperating. When a person does not feel up to par it’s pretty normal to feel not prepared to meet everything that goes on in one day. Once you feel better that panic will go down.
      Meanwhile handle the most pressing stuff first. Tricky part: What you think is pressing and what others think is pressing can be two different lists. The number one thing is to keep the boss happy. Start with anything that has to go to the boss. Then move on to others around you. Who is facing a time crunch? It might make sense to do their stuff first.
      Keep in mind that there are things that are “nice to do” but not “necessary”. It might just make sense to skip some of the “nice to do” things in favor of the things that are giving you the most worry.

    4. Kuododi*

      I’d say don’t follow my example when I was recovering from cancer surgery. I was supposed to be off for 6-8 weeks to recover but around week 4-5 started getting bored, restless and anxious to return to work. I managed to sweet talk my oncologist into releasing me back to work prematurely. Long story short, my first shift back at the hospital…I took on too much with patient care, ( was working on an in-patient psychiatric unit) slipped, fell and cracked a bone in my foot. Take care of yourself and take the time you need to be well and healthy. I discovered a long time ago that my places of employment got on well before I came along and wouldn’t fall apart without my presence. Blessings!!!

  23. nonny for now*

    I have started a job at a startup where my title is “ninja” and nerf ammo is all over the floor.

    pray for me.

    1. Self employed*

      I pray that your nerfs all meet their targets, and your helmet repels all attacks. Amen

    2. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I can’t, I’m too busy rolling my eyes.

      OK, that’s mean. But I’m so curious why you took a job with the title of “ninja”. I hope the pay is good and they offer healthcare.

      1. nonny for now*

        1. they didn’t tell me that was my title till after I started
        2. I didn’t have any better options.

        Fortunately, everyone seems really nice and it seems not to be a dysfunctional mess otherwise. But no health insurance and not good pay, alas.

        2. AvonLady Barksdale*

          Ugh, you have all of my Thoughts and Prayers. If it helps… at my last job, I found out a month after I started that two months BEFORE I started, the only titles in the company were “Kids” and “Adults”, and if I had known that, I might not have taken the job. It was kind of an indication of the trainwreck to come, also no health insurance. The pay was good, but I had to use way too much of it to buy health insurance.

          So I do hope the people continue to be nice and it remains functional. Fingers crossed!

          2. SavannahMiranda*

            WOW! Kids and Adults!? I hope Allison sees this to add to her library of crazy.

            How did that work? Were there titles like “Kid Customer Service Agent” and “Adult Customer Service Agent?” For real?

    4. Anonymous Educator*

      Yikes. I hope it isn’t also a toxic bro culture, but I’m not holding my breath!

    6. NotaPirate*

      Did you get hired by ThinkGeek?!! I’m trying to picture any professional company besides them that would find that level of nerf acceptable. Good luck! May your aim stay true!

      PS: They make Desktop usb controlled nerf rocket launchers. Use the computer to aim and launch. Our IT head has one here aimed at the door.

      1. Rogue*

        My former boss had one of these. It was awesome. Everyone else had their own little nerf guns and we all used the same sized darts, so ammo was abundant. The head admin used to get her feathers ruffled when we’d battle it out.

    7. Dzhymm*

      I had one job where the Nerf battles started after the holiday gift exchange included a few nerf launchers. I sat them out for a while, then hatched A Plan. I began collecting up all the loose ammo that I found lying around, and i also ordered a Nerf machine gun that took an 18-round clip(*) along with several spares. At some point the company admin casually mentioned to me that the guys were complaining that the Nerf ammo was disappearing. The next day I snuck my new toy into the office, loaded up with all the collected ammo, then positioned myself behind a half-wall and told the guys: “I’ve been told that the ammo has been disappearing. I’m sorry. I’ll give it back now” at which point I raised the weapon and proceeded to spray the whole office.

      Side note: If you have a Nerf machine gun (at least the model I had) you will instantly qualify to be an Imperial stormtrooper. It was great for volume of fire, but the aim was absolutely pitiful due to its mechanical rather than pneumatic firing mechanism…

      (*)Yes, I know that it’s properly called a “magazine”. Just messing with the purists here ;)

      1. zora*

        well played. I don’t have the patience for the long con, so I’m always impressed at those who can pull it off. ;o)

      4. KayEss*

        That is amazing. I just collected any ammo that strayed into my cube and taped it up on the wall as trophies/hostages. Eventually someone would raid my “Wall of Shame” to reload, and the process would start again. They were pretty good at not shooting while I was around, at least.

  24. Wannabe UX Designer*

    Does anyone work as a user experience designer? I’m a former graphic designer looking to make a career change. I don’t have a ton of web experience but do know some coding in CSS and HTML. I’m an expert in photoshop and Indesign, intermediate in Illustrator.

    What do you like about it don’t like about it?
    How’s the market, salaries?
    What programs and languages would you recommend learning?
    What resources do you use?
    Anything else you’d tell me?

    1. DaniCalifornia*

      Following as a current graphic info technology major and hopeful future UX/UI Designer

    2. AnonGD*

      I’m also considering making the leap from graphic design– partially because I don’t think I’m getting challenged enough in my current work. Not very helpful but I’m also following!

    3. CurrentlyLooking*

      Hello, I am in a UX adjacent field – I don’t do it exactly but I am pretty familiar with it

      There is a great organization called UXPA – that has local groups all around the country. I am active in my local group and it is a great resource.

      Programming languages you need to do user interface work are HTML/CSS and javascript

      But a lot of UX design doesn’t actually involve programming. There are UX tools like InVision, Sketch, Axure that allow you to do mockups and prototypes with out programming. UX is actually an umbrella term that covers usability, interaction design, visual design, UI programming and more.

      Hope this helps

      2. Autumnheart*

        Sketch is a solid tool built on many of the same principles and functionalities as Photoshop. It took me less than a day to become functional in Sketch and I am not an expert in Photoshop (even though I really should be by now). It has a fully functional 30-day trial if you want to give it a whirl.

    4. WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot*

      My brother is a UX Designer in San Francisco, I asked him for advice and this is what he said:

      I like figuring out why people do what they do and how to improve it. I like taking a problem and breaking out all the parts, doing all of the research to understand the users, their state of mind, their goals, the business goals, and then coming up with solutions that work end to end. The only thing I don’t like is probably the same things you don’t like about being a graphic designer: other people who haven’t done the research get an opinion about seemingly small things that can get changed if you don’t know how to tell them they’re wrong to want that. You really need to be very clear on why you made the decisions you made, which comes with time and kind of sucks in between.

      The market is booming. It’s a great time to be a UX designer. The salaries are great. Check out GlassDoor for salaries in your area or an area you want to live in.

      I’m not a designer who codes and you don’t have to be, IMO. It helps a lot to have a good working knowledge of HTML, CSS, and JavaScript so you know how what you design impacts development. Past that, if you want to learn to code, I heard a lot about React these days.

      There are a ton of resources online. Just do some Google searches. Smashing magazine, A book apart, a ton of O’Reilly books. Medium, etc are all great places to start. Find a conference near you and go. Meet people, read as much as you can, etc.

      The last thing I’d tell you, as a graphic designer, is that how pretty it is or how good it looks means absolutely nothing if it doesn’t work well. Being a good UX designer is about doing the research and figuring out everything that happens between A and B. You need to really get in there and understand the user, the system they’re working in, how what you’re designing fits in to the larger product, and how it can make the person’s life better. That’s what gets me up every morning: knowing that what I do today could make someone’s life easier/better/richer tomorrow. 85% of the work I do happens well before I pick up a marker or ever start pushing pixels. By the time I’m ready to design something it usually just pours out of me, because I’ve spent so much time thinking about it and researching it.

    5. KayEss*

      UX design is a pretty broad field and the job depends a lot on the kind of place you’re working. I’ve been a web designer for almost ten years and there are UX jobs out there that I’m absolutely not qualified for–mostly related to holistic app design, motion and animation, etc. At the same time, there are jobs where the title is “UX Designer” but really you’re just designing and maintaining websites. It’s an industry that has basically no standards whatsoever for the duties attached to a job title. (Citation: I have been looking for a new job in web/UX design for the past six months.)

      For a UX design position at an agency or other collaborative firm, you will need very strong CSS and HTML skills at a minimum, and probably also at least some JavaScript. I don’t think I’ve seen ANY job listings for UX designers that did not include those at minimum–there are web designer positions that don’t code at all, but UX generally has a code component or at least a strong understanding of coding expected. Sketch/InVision/Axure are industry standard as mentioned, photoshop and illustrator may also be assets to you, depending on the individual workplace, but no one will care about indesign. There are also UX design best practices standards that you will be expected to be familiar with, usually related to human/computer interaction studies. You may be expected to understand A/B testing and have experience supervising test user groups to optimize designs. Understanding of digital marketing is also an asset.

      The alternative is a kind of combination jack-of-all-trades web/digital/UX designer position, which is the kind of thing I’ve been doing for a while (and trying to get out of). That’s usually at places where you’re going to be the only web person, and will have to design, code, and troubleshoot everything yourself–so again, strong HTML, CSS, and working knowledge of JavaScript, plus whatever CMS the place is using. Know how to use Google Analytics. Be good at talk both tech and non-tech languages, because your boss will have no idea what you’re doing and you will be the primary contact person between actual IT support and all the frantic “why isn’t the website working?!?!?”. Strong general tech literacy and ability to learn new computer programs quickly and independently is advised.

      The best way to start the transition may be to look for more generalist designer positions where you will be doing both print and web work, to start building up those skills and compiling a digital portfolio. Vet those carefully, though, as it’s easy to get pigeonholed into doing all the work you don’t want to be doing and none of what you want to be doing. Codeacademy is a good place to start on coding skills, their HTML/CSS courses go from basic to advanced, and you can go from there. (They’re also free, though I think the extra stuff you get with a monthly subscription is worth it.)

      1. Wannabe UX Designer*

        Thanks for your perspective. I have a digital analytics background. I’ll look af code academy.

      2. Daphne*

        KayEss, where would I find out more about the motion/animation UX jobs and what they entail? Literally just google that? I trained in 2D animation many moons ago but haven’t found a related job so looking for inspiration for new fields to move into! (Hope I’m not detailing Wannabe’s thread!)

        2. KayEss*

          Unfortunately I don’t really have a strong answer for you… it’s a skillset that I’ve seen called out in UI/UX designer job listings occasionally, and then I click away because I don’t have those skills on a professional level. A lot of it is likely to be about user interface feedback animations–button click effects, screen transitions, and other animations indicating that something has happened successfully (or unsuccessfully)–which is something that can be easily overlooked by designers used to working in static media.

  25. Super Anon Today*

    Nonprofit board member here: I’m working with a new employee that doesn’t report to me, but is working on projects for me. She just graduated from college so I’m trying to be patient, but she sent me a chain of emails this week that really annoyed me because she clearly didn’t read what I sent to her. She waited days to start on the tasks I assigned her and then said she wouldn’t have time until July, misspelled my name and asked me for my phone number despite both being in my email signature, told me her availability to meet and then the next day said neither of the 2 times I sent her work for her. Basically, my issues with her are about being polished in general, because her position is a client-facing one and I am afraid if we don’t correct them now it’ll be an issue in the future and reflect badly on us.

    Her boss has 3 other employees that do not work client-facing tasks, and they are all further in their careers and I haven’t had these issues with any of them. Should I bring these to NewEmployee’s manager and ask her to address them, or give NewEmployee the feedback directly?

    1. A Nickname for AAM*

      I don’t know what your nonprofit is like, but it’s been my experience that board members can do whatever the heck they like with no consequences because He/She Is A Board Member. Up to and including making offensive jokes in public and sexually harassing people.

      I see no reason why polite mentoring would be received worse than either of the latter.

      1. Will Out Myself With This One*

        It’s more of a volunteer-based org with a handful of employees, and Board members are elected by the membership. It’s very weird and different than other nonprofits or boards. Definitely not a place where offensive comments or behavior are acceptable!

    2. WellRed*

      I think I’d start with her on the stuff directly related to you, like she waited too long to start on the tasks and maybe then wrap in the fact that she didn’t read what you sent to her, which speaks to her lack of attention to deal and see what she says. If things don’t improve ASAP, I’d bring it to her manager. It will be interesting to know if all these problems are newbie problems are if she’s going to be a problem in general (i’d bet on the latter).

    3. NPAnon*

      Speaking as a board member/former nonprofit staff, speak directly with the manager. Unless it’s the ED, your role isn’t to manage the employees, but to manage the organization, which includes keeping the ED accountable for their role in managing their staff.

      1. Kaybee*

        1000x this. You manage the ED, and the ED manages staff.

        Also, not to excuse the new employee’s unprofessionalism, but it sounds like she’s having some workload balance issues. It’s really the ED’s job to manage that, and if the problem isn’t workload balance but something else like time management, then to manage the employee. Putting a brand new employee in a position to have to push back against a board member w/r/t her workload is pretty unfair.

    4. Ali G*

      If you trust the NE manager to address the situation correctly, I would start there. Give that person a call, explain the issues you are having and ask him/her to sit the NE down and set some expectations on basic office communication and how to interact with Board members. I mean, spelling your name wrong, AND not making an attempt to make the times that work for you are red flags to me. What else does she have going on that she can’t make time for you, a volunteer Board member? I think she has no clue on professional norms.

    5. Middle School Teacher*

      I’d at least talk to her manager first. Lay out the issues, then maybe something along the lines of “You’re her manager so feedback should probably come from you, but since this project is my responsibility, I’m happy to talk to her myself.” But if you just talk to her yourself first, it kind of looks like you’re circumventing her actual boss. At the very least you need to loop the manager in.

    6. Boredatwork*

      I think you’ll be doing her a favor by giving her some feedback. As a board member you are well within the hierarchy that your feedback is important should be taken seriously.

      I would key her manager in on the situation, say something along the lines of wanting to give NE some informal feedback. Set up a time to meet with NE (preferably in person) and go over things she’s doing well and the things she needs to improve on.

      I would try to be kind but direct –

      1) Attention to detail is very important in Nonprofit, donor’s may get offended if you misspell their name
      2) When you provide your availability, and make a meeting you need to stick to it unless there’s a very good reason. In this case she could not know how to prioritize, if her direct boss wanted that hour, perhaps suggest she loop them into the discussion. I usually do the “Direct boss, I have a meeting with Board member then, Can you help me prioritize”
      3) I think 3 probably falls under the communicate and let us help you prioritize. The hardest thing when you first start working is having multiple people ask for things and not prioritizing correctly.

    7. Snowglobe*

      Go to the manager first; that’s the person who is supposed to be delivering this type of feedback, and you want to make sure the manager is aware of the issues. You and the manager can discuss whether or not you should provide feedback directly as well

    8. Evil HR Person*

      Go to her manager, if only because her manager does need to know about the issues, coach her, and follow up. This isn’t on you. Then you can go directly back to the manager to see if the issues have been resolved or hold the manager accountable if they have not.

    9. Not So NewReader*

      Am agreeing with those who said that you should go to her boss or the one over her who reports directly to the board.

      She should be submitting her projects to HER boss and her boss should be giving the results to you. This allows you to side step all the problems and puts her boss in charge of the subordinate’s work.
      As it stands now her boss cannot fix what she does not know about. And the boss should be in charge of reviewing the work before it is passed to you.

      Most places that I have worked if a board member had a special project it trickled down through upper managers before it got to the lower level people. And filtering is why. The immediate boss knows the subordinate’s workload and knows if the project is doable for them. And the immediate boss evaluates the work for errors and omissions before giving it to the board member. This fixes many of the problems you mention here.

    10. Rey*

      I am an office manager, and in my experience, managers who do not work on client-facing tasks can (unintentionally) tune out issues like this. I would have a detailed conversation with her boss and make sure that they have enough support to train her appropriately. If they don’t have the expertise in this area, then look for other options that make sense in your organization and setting. Is there someone in a different department or sister office who exhibits these skills–can she shadow them for a few hours? There are how-to books that you can buy. Be very specific when telling her boss what changes you need to see, and decide whether you will correct future mistakes in the moment or continue to pass on feedback to her boss to then relay.

  26. beanie beans*

    In 4 hours I’m meeting with the hiring manager to discuss offer details, meet the small team I’d be working with, and get a tour of the coworking space! I should have taken the morning off – I can’t focus!

  27. Genny*

    How do you format a resume to indicate your contracting company changed but your title/place of work remains the same? Here’s more or less what I currently have:

    Worldwide Llamas 2014 – present
    Llama Contracting Inc. (Contractor)

    Llama Groomer 2016-present
    Accomplishments

    Assistant Llama Groomer 2014-2016
    Accomplishments

    1. Ali G*

      Is there a reason you have to put in the contractor? If not, it might be less confusing to just leave it off. If so would it be more clear if you wrote:
      Worlwide Llamas (via Llama Contracting Inc.) 2014-Present
      And then go with what you have.

    2. whistle*

      I’m a bit confused by your question, because you state your contracting company changed and not your title, but the example you provide seems to indicate the opposite to me.

      I hire contractors who may work the same job at the same facility for years but be employed by multiple contractors during that period. In these cases it is important to the list the contractor b/c otherwise it makes it look like they were directly employed by the facility, which is incorrect. If this describes your situation, this is a format that I find useful when reviewing resumes:

      Title, Facility, 2014 – present
      (contracted by Company A 2014 – 2016; contracted by Company B 2016 – present)

      1. Genny*

        I’m a contractor. Contracting company A pays my salary, but I work at Firm X. Firm X is not renewing the contract with Company A, but wants to keep me on with the new contracting company (Company B). I’m not sure how to update my resume since the only thing changing is contracting companies. I’ve been with Company A at Firm X for four years (two as an assistant llama groomer, two as a llama groomer). I can’t just replace Company A on my resume because it’ll look like I worked for Company B longer than I did. Is the option below too confusing (obviously the dates are more specific on my actual resume)?

        Firm X 2014-present
        Company A 2014-2018
        Company B 2018 – present

        Llama Groomer 2016-present
        Accomplishments

        Assistant Llama Groomer 2014-2016
        Accomplishments

        1. whistle*

          As someone who hires contractors, I would understand that format and it would work for me! Maybe to add a bit more clarity, you could put “Employed by Company A/Employed by Company B” and/or add parentheses around the Company A/Company B statements.

          Hope that helps! Best of luck!

  28. Relo girl*

    Relocation negotiation help! I am in the final steps for a great job on the other side of the country. I was sent the relo package and it is honestly amazing and includes just about everything but it is through a 3rd party moving coordinator. Problem is I would prefer a lump sum and set everything up myself. Any tips on how to request a lump sum and negotiate the amount.

    Thanks!!

    1. Ms. Meow*

      I’m sorry I don’t have any tips in negotiating, but my experience with lump sum relocation help is that they give you the money after the fact so you’d have to pay everything up front yourself. Just keep that in mind as a possibility.

    2. Evil HR Person*

      As the Evil HR Person that I am, I would probably tell you that I can’t/won’t do that. The tax ramifications to both you and your new employer make the arrangement they’re giving you a MUCH better deal for all. It will keep your move on track, on budget, and (probably) not taxable to you. So – my advice is to not ask for the lump sum.

      1. LadyKelvin*

        Just wanted to second this. I’ve done it both ways, arranged it on my own getting a lump sum and having the company just take care of it. Letting the company take care of it was the easiest. When I arranged things myself I had to also provide 3 estimates for each service and chose the cheapest, then I had to request reimbursement within 14 days of paying, so I ended up having to submit recipts and estimates 3 times because I paid for my car to be shipped before I left so it would arrive about the same time I did, then my stuff left shortly after I did where I paid the first half of the moving costs, and then I paid the rest 2 months later when my stuff arrived. When the company arranged it they used their contracted moving service and they just did everything, including packing. They called and asked us when would be a good time to show up, and they were done within a day and it was the easiest move I have ever had, by far. If you’ve never moved long distance before, trust me that you don’t want to have to manage the move yourself, the amount of stress you will be under will just compound all the other stress (finding a place to live, starting a new job, etc)

      2. BRR*

        I was also going to comment that they probably can’t/won’t do it. It’s likely a policy that they can’t make exceptions for. I would also advise to not ask for a lump sum unless there’s a very good reason. If you ask I would just say “Would it be possible to get a lump sum because X?”

      3. Relo girl*

        They have a Misc. of $1500 that is grossed up for taxes. So I thought it would be possible just to do a lump sum.

          1. Relo girl*

            the $1500 is on top of packing, moving, unpacking vehicle shipping, and temp housing

          2. Evil HR Person*

            It isn’t. We did it on our own 5 years ago – and I mean totally on our own and it cost $1500 THEN. Not worth it.

            1. Relo girl*

              Sorry I’m explaining badly. The original plan is 1500 plus the coordinator. I was hoping for a large (15k-20k) lumpsum. I have seen a family member receive. We are in similar fields

    3. Heather*

      My boyfriend and I recently moved due to relocation of his job (my job also gave me a transfer, but he got the relocation package through his). I would strongly recommend allowing the third party moving company to take care of things for you. We had an AMAZING experience with our move – the movers were incredibly professional, prompt, and did absolutely everything exactly as we wanted it done. So my only advice is not to negotiate this at all, but sit back and let these people do the job your company wants to pay them to do.

      1. Relo girl*

        The reason I was think lump sum. is because I honestly dont want any of my furniture, its all old pieces from college. I would rather buy all new and finally have a ‘big girl apartment’. I also dont have a lot of clothes ( enough for a few checked bags. I just donated over half of my wardrobe to charity so I could replace it with more professional look

        1. LadyKelvin*

          They probably won’t just give you the lump sum, they’ll only pay what the relocation costs.

          1. Kathenus*

            Agree. Usually when it’s a lump sum it’s reimbursement of appropriate expenses up to a certain cap, and receipts are required.

        2. Jules the Third*

          Yeah, they’re not going to give you a lump sum that you can use for buying new furniture.

          1. AcademiaNut*

            I’ve seen lump sum payments, but they were never enough to pay for an actual cross country move, but more like $2000 total. It was enough to cover airfare, a week or two in a hotel, and eating out while finding an apartment.

            I once had a friend buy most of my large furniture pieces before a relocation like this. He had been living in a furnished apartment, and was moving cross country, while I was moving overseas. It was cheaper for him to buy my stuff and ship it across the country than to buy stuff once he got there.

            1. Relo girl*

              My cousin received 30k paid in advance to relocate to texas. Granted, he was with the company for 5 years not coming in as a new hire. So it does happen, but from the comments it’s not as common as I assumed. Thanks everyone

  29. Nervous Accountant*

    Performance evaluations are coming up. I don’t know what to say and if any of this even matters.

    This is going to be my…4th evaluation? First two years I did OK, kept it fairly standard, didn’t expect anything. Last year, I got a promotion, big raise, all 5s on my evaluation. Had a job search underway, but didn’t find much and put the search on hold to concentrate on tax season and resume the search in the spring/summertime again.

    Well, things never go as planned, and in January, my dad died suddenly and I had to rush back to the home country for the funeral. I came back to work after 3 weeks, and then had to take another 2 weeks off in May, after busy season, to go back and take care of legal matters. When I came back, I was sick off and on–nothing serious but just annoying and painful. So, it’s June and I’ve missed 5 weeks of work..

    Work is aight…I have no plans to leave yet.

    In terms of handling the time off, I think my company did good? Seeing as how I had no PTO left as of Jan 1, I wasn’t SOL in terms of getting paid for my 5 weeks off. My bonus was actually really fair, better than I expected.

    Given I went through the worst months of my life, I kicked ass this season. My mgr who works closest to me agrees and constantly relays this to my boss that I help him out a lot and do great.

    Yet, as far as raise & promotions go, a lot of buzz is that the CEO is really trying to keep costs down while increasing staff, so raises will be minimal this year. There was a possible promotion for me but that’s off the table b/c in an informal conversation I told my mgr I wasn’t ready yet…that eventually but not right now. I’m kind of regretting saying that but the window is closed on that.

    So all in all, I’m not expecting anything like last year (15% & promotion). But how do I even mention this stuff on the evaluation? “I kicked ass despite going through a nightmare”? It’s not like my mgr etc don’t know. And honestly, even if that hadn’t happened, I still think I would have done well b/c I have always done my best during busy season. I don’t even have the “if I don’t get the $$ I deserve I will leave” card.

    Honestly does any of it even matter? Idk. It’s our first holiday after, and Sunday is Fathers day so double holidays

    1. Friday*

      Best of luck to you, and also good wishes for a peaceful Sunday. It’ll be the fourth Father’s Day without my dad and while it gets less intense, I don’t think the sadness ever dissipates.

      You should let your boss know that when the promotion opportunity comes around again, whenever that is, you’re ready to be considered for it now.

  30. Rehab Blues*

    I am a person who is extremely together in my professional life (executive position in a high-prestige field and consistently considered, by far, the top performer on my team), but a mess in my personal life – specifically, I suffer from sex addiction. Outpatient treatment has not been effective in getting my problematic behaviors under control, and with my family and therapist we have decided together that I need to go into a rehab facility for at least 30 days and perhaps longer. I am completely at a loss as to how to broach this with my employer (we are a small consulting firm, no HR department/person and not eligible for FMLA). The thought of discussing sex with my boss makes me completely mortified. No one at work would ever suspect I have a problem; my appearance/demeanor are extremely conservative at the office and at business events, to the point that I don’t even curse. If I cite needing treatment for an “addiction” issue people are likely going to jump to the conclusion it is substance-related and perhaps that I’ve been impaired at work; if I mention sexual issues I’m very concerned that people will think I have engaged in some sort of sexual misconduct. My problematic behavior has been 100% in my private life on my own time (also, it has only involved other enthusiastically consenting adults). However, I do need intensive treatment to get well. Should I just offer to resign, citing needing to take an unspecified amount of time to resolve a private health issue? I don’t think a leave of absence would be approved, especially as I don’t yet know how long I will need to be out.

    1. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I think you can be very, very vague here. Your physician has recommended a long-term treatment plan for a chronic medical issue and you need to take unpaid leave for it. If pressed, you can say it’s a mental health issue, I suppose. It’s really hard when you’re not eligible for FMLA, so you have my sympathies. If you are in a position to resign, then that’s not the worst thing– but don’t offer that immediately. For all you know, they may be more sympathetic than you expect.

      Best of luck. I think it’s wonderful that you’re looking into intensive, long-term care, which is not an easy decision to make. It sounds like your family is on your side, which is also good.

      1. Detective Amy Santiago*

        I agree with this. You should not have to disclose anything more specific. Good luck to you!

      2. The Dread Pirate Buttercup*

        Right. It’s a potentially life-threatening illness that has a high potential for affecting your job performance if it gets worse, and you don’t want to risk it getting to that point. I don’t see that there’s much discussion needed beyond that.

    2. Murphy*

      I think you should just “mental health” or even just “health” issue. Definitely don’t get into specifics. It’s not necessary no matter what it is.

      I wish you the best of luck with your treatment!

    3. Anon for This*

      My husband dealt with this a few years ago (alcohol) and he presented it as a “pressing health issue with a substantial recovery time” or something like that. Like you, no one at work would have guessed, and I am not sure how much any of his coworkers have figured out. He was eligible for FMLA, but I would encourage to ask first before resigning. Give them an opportunity to help you! And good luck!

      1. Corky's Wife Bonnie*

        Yes, “pressing health issue with a substantial recovery time” is a great phrase. It’s vague enough that they won’t know the reason, but it’s detailed enough that they know this is a serious situation. Good luck, I’m rooting for you!

        1. Anon for This*

          Based on hinting around, I think most people think he had a tumor or a heart problem. Or something too gross to mention at work.

    4. Rehab Blues*

      Ohhhh, thank you so much, everyone! These are great practical tips and have given me a lot to work with. I am truly moved by everyone’s compassionate tone as well (one aspect of this illness is the huge sense of guilt/shame, which often make me believe I’m not deserving of kindness, especially once people know about the addiction). For the record, one reason my outside treatment team is recommending rehab NOW is that so far, my behavior has NOT impacted my professional life and reputation; however, because addiction is a progressive disease, it is likely it will some months/years down the road if I don’t enter recovery very soon. Again – I am very grateful.

      1. zora*

        I agree with everyone above, I would call it ‘medical leave’ there is no reason to be specific about what for, or even that it is for ‘rehab.’ Honestly, the unsure return date isn’t that uncommon, my coworker had to go on medical leave for recovery after a small surgery and it was the same thing because she needed physical therapy. We didn’t know her return date right away, she told her managers that by X date she would check in to tell them if a return date was set or not, and would keep us in the loop as soon as she was cleared to return. That should be totally reasonable, and not a red flag that would raise suspicions of it being anything other than a ‘health issue’.

        And I am sorry you don’t have access to FMLA, that does suck, but I would definitely ask for unpaid leave. I hope you get leave and don’t have to resign, but if you do, try to trust that this is the right thing, to focus on your health for right now, and you will figure out the rest later. Try to treat yourself as if this is any other medical problem! Best of luck to you, you DO DESERVE to get help!!

        1. Anon for This*

          My husband, also a high performer at work, framed it as it being easier to cover for him for 4-6 weeks since it would probably take them at least that long and cost more to replace him completely. I’m optimistic that this will go better than you think, OP!

      2. VioletDaffodil*

        I think everyone has given great advice, but I just want to wish you luck! You are deserving of kindness and I hope you will show yourself kindness, and find support and kindness from those you love as well.

    5. WellRed*

      It would be easier and less expensive for them to approve a leave of absence for you rather than lose you and have to rehire. Have a plan for your absence before you broach the topic. Good luck!

    6. anon for this*

      There’s a stigma against lying but I don’t think you owe your employer details about your health. Honestly, if it were me, I may say I was having major surgery and would be out recovering for a few weeks. It’s not true but it’s also none of their beeswax.

      Also, look into asking your doc about meds. I struggled w alcohol and naltrexone worked well for me. There’s also a naltrexone/Wellbutrin combo for overeaters that may apply in this case… not to give you medical advice or recommend anything in particular but our culture tends to focus on shaming folks rather than medical remedies (in addition to therapy and whatnot).

      2. Friday*

        A white lie could definitely work…maybe just saying that you are going to have a procedure and the recovery time is estimated to be a month. They don’t need to know that the procedure itself will take a month. Good luck to you!

      3. Observer*

        Skip the lies. It’s a practical matter – it’s waaaaay to easy to mess up. And if the full truth comes out it will be much, much worse than if they told their boss in the first place. Not that I’m suggesting that. I very much agree with sticking to “medical issue that’s going to need at least a month, and possibly longer. etc.”

    7. Not So NewReader*

      While I do not think you have to, nor should you disclose the nature of your medical needs here, I think it is wise to prepare a brief statement that conveys you are not dying and you will return to working.

      Here is what happened to me. I had a small medical problem X which I did not take care of, so it got larger. And the doc I went to did a lousy job. So my problem grew some more. Pretty soon is was an unwieldy issue. I did not wish to discuss the particulars with my boss, because she was not the type who handled information responsibly. She would try to get to invested in people’s personal issues. So I was vague and I gave her a vague explanation of what was going on. I vaguely answered her 20-30 questions and finally she became exasperated with me. She exclaimed, “Okay, look, I just want to know if you are going to die or if you are going to be alright!”
      I thought she was going to cry, she actually looked scared for me.

      You can save yourself a bunch of awkward conversation by volunteering, “This is not terminal. I will not die, but I do need to put time into it in order to get the best results.” Say it before the boss starts fishing around to find out about the severity. There is a human side to this story and many people out there just want to know, “Are you gonna be okay in the long run?”

      1. Thursday Next*

        This is a good point. Rehab Blues, you’re entitled to privacy and folks here have provided excellent wording that centers around health without getting into specifics. But I think there are coworkers who might worry about you, so if you can work something in about it being a chronic and serious but non-terminal issue, that might be good.

        Also, best of luck to you with the program!

    8. Kuododi*

      I’m here to second all the excellent suggestions people have made on this thread. I’m going to stay out of the issue regarding technical logistics around applying for extended time off. My only experience in that area was taking medical leave from my second Master’s program following thyroidectomy. I would encourage you to look into SA twelve step meetings to begin to build a recovery support system for yourself. If there aren’t SA groups in your area…it might be worth a shot to go to a few old fashioned AA groups. You will need to check out a few groups until you find a good fit. This would be a good way to get support while you are in transition to in patient recovery. Best wishes!!!!

    9. Good, Cheap, or Soon. Pick Two.*

      My first suggestion would be to talk to your therapist about how to handle discussing your need for treatment both professionally and personally. This “disappearance” is going to be noted by former coworkers and friends and it can be stressful for any type of recovery to have to deal with questions right after your released from a facility. Having a way to explain the absence prior to your admission can help significantly and it can also help your family while you’re away. I say this as someone who had a family member who spent several protracted periods in inpatient facilities in attempts to deal with addiction issues.

      As for your professional life; once you have that discussion with your therapist, talk to your boss. Simply state you need to take a significant amount of time away from your professional life to deal with a sensitive medical issue. You understand that having someone away from their job for a protracted amount of time is difficult and you can fully understand if he wouldn’t be able to approve the leave of absence. If he can’t approve the leave of absence, you may be able to negotiate for a good reference or the option to reapply after your medical needs are seen to.

      Good luck with getting treatment. You’re doing the right thing by putting your health first and by taking the steps that you need to (especially before it impacts your professional life). Whatever happens, giving this a shot is a brave choice and it’s something that can mean a lot to the people who are rooting for you. Keep taking care of yourself.

      1. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

        The only thing is that I would try to go in to it with the assumption that of course leave will be approved, rather than leading the conversation with saying that you understand if it can’t be done.

  31. Rhymetime*

    A while back, I asked for advice about tone-setting in my role for an upcoming job, since I hadn’t managed anyone in decades. Here’s a happy update now that I’m in my position and working with my direct report. The woman I’m managing is outstanding in all ways so I don’t anticipate major challenges, but I nonetheless want to make sure she’s getting the support she needs to succeed in what is a new career for her. Now that I’ve been in my job a month, I checked in with my manager for his feedback about how I’m doing, and asked if there’s anything I need to change. My manager told me that not only is my colleague feeling good about things and saying that she’s learning a lot from me, but he is also really pleased with me in my leadership role as well as all other aspects of my job performance.

    I’m greatly enjoying my new position, and the advice I got here from others was so helpful in setting me up for a good start–thank you!

  32. Sugar of lead*

    A while ago we had a “resume wtf” thread, which was hilarious. I’ve been wondering about the opposite, though. What are some resumes/letters/applications that have just wowed you with how good they are?

    1. Tipcat*

      Wow. Nothing but crickets. I think this counts as “no answer is a ‘no’ answer.”

      1. Logan*

        Excellent resumes are very specific to the job, so I am assuming no one is responding because it likely wouldn’t be ethical.

  33. SophieChotek*

    Anyone had experience saying “no” to taking on more responsibility at work? I am afraid this might, in the end, be a “condition of employment”, but at the moment it’s been couched as “we would love to see you grow more” and “we want you to step up into more sales-oriented role.” (At the moment I am more back office; PR and social media; every once in a while I have to rep the company once a year at a trade event, but not cold calls, etc.) It’s so not me. I’ve told them this before, but they’ve sort of (tried to) re-empt that objection with “you’re smart, we know you can do it!” sort of pep talks…

    I don’t want to be out of a job, but frankly if I agreed to this, I know i’d be setting myself up for failure…

    1. Tara S.*

      It sucks that they are pushing this on you, but absolutely hold firm. Sales is so different from other kinds of work (and I hate doing it, personally). I can’t think of anything to do except to be more explicit with how you push back? Something like: “I really like working here, and I’m grateful that you guys are supportive of my growth, but I am not interested in a sales role. Sales is really different from my work now, and I’m not interested in moving over.”

    2. Natalie*

      It’s a little odd that they’re not hearing you – in my experience sales is one of those fields where basically everyone gets just not wanting to do it – so I wonder if there’s any possibility you’ve been a little vague or vacillating about your lack of interest? When they respond with something like “you’re smart” it might be good to reiterate that you’re just not interested in sales.

      It also seems unlikely that you’d be let go because you don’t want to transfer to a sales role. The only people I’ve ever known to get terminated because they turned down a transfer or a promotion are people who’s positions were being eliminated. It would probably mean you’d be in your current position permanently, so you just have to plan to move to a different company when/if you are ready to take on more responsibility.

      1. SophieChotek*

        I do think I have been…maybe saying things like “I don’t think sales is my forte” and “it doesn’t really suit my personality” – but that is why they have already tried to pre-empt those objections with “You’re smart, we know you can learn it” and “Jane, Bob, and Sue don’t have backgrounds in business either but have gone on to be department heads and great sales people here”… (I did do a little bit of sales, cold-calls, etc. for one specific project. Getting hung up and yelled at multiple times a day…that was enough for me.)

        The company really is struggling, so we desperately need sales…which is why I actually do think I would be terminated if i refuse this role. But I feel like I would just be setting myself up for failure — esp. knowing the company has had declining sales figures — then it would suddenly be me trying to prop the company up and get more sales.

        Thanks for your comment and support!

        1. Natalie*

          So, I don’t know if that’s direct enough – I think it is possible for someone that really wants a sales person to interpret that as “SophieChotek doesn’t think she would be good at sales” rather than “SophieChotek isn’t interested in sales”, which are very different statements. That is probably why they’re still asking, plus if the company isn’t doing well they might be feeling desperate and thus have desperation blinders. And, if you’re not comfortable being a little bit more direct (as in, some combination of the words “not”, “interested” and “sales”), they’re probably not going to stop, or at least not for many more months of the same conversation.

          That said, I still don’t think you should take the sales work. I don’t know anything about this company but I can guarantee you that it is NOT struggling because their office/PR/social media person hasn’t decided to move into sales. They have bigger problems than you can fix. So really, all you can do, and all you have to do, is keep putting them off until you can find another job. Keep being vague, and pretending to be a very obtuse, literal person that is constitutionally incapable of understanding hints. Wait for them to say “sales or don’t show up tomorrow”.

          1. SophieChotek*

            I do agree with you about this being a bigger issue than they can fix. (And I know part of the reason I don’t want to go into sales, is I privately think there are some fundamental flaws in the product…which is probably why the sales are slipping.) But I don’t think I can a say that to HQ…and still keep my job…but….=)

            Everyone does seem to think I need to be more direct — and see what sort of response I get from my bosses…

        2. Evil HR Person*

          I don’t think they’d fire you if they’re strapped for people – that would be silly (but only YOU know how much silliness they’re willing to commit). Nevertheless, I think you can be even more explicit than you’ve been: “I hate sales and I cannot do it.” I’ve actually said this out loud to a few managers – then again, nobody had asked me to do sales, as I’m in HR. But I’ve certainly said, “I hate recruiting and I’m absolutely horrible at it, so I can help but not for very long and I warn you that you will not get the results you want.”

          That’s harsh, so perhaps cushioning the message might be better: “I’ve done a very poor job when I’ve worked sales before. I don’t want to jeopardize my position here by trying sales again. I’ve done it and I know I’m no good at it.”

        3. BRR*

          I think you need to be a little more direct. “I’ve tried sales in the past and found that I really enjoy *other area that’s not sales*.”

        4. What’s with today, today*

          My work tries this about every two years. My script alternates:

          ”I have no desire to do sales.” and
          ”Nope. I stay as far away from sales as possible.”

        5. Logan*

          I immediately guessed that they are trying to push any warm body into sales, and your comment reinforces this. It’s like fundraising – it’s critical, yet only a few people enjoy it and everyone else hates it. I think they are pressuring everyone, so if not everyone has moved to sales and are still employed then I’d just keep pushing back.

    3. writelhd*

      I can share my experience. I was recently given a promotion and extra job responsibilities myself that was outside of my normal role and background that I was very ambivalent about, but the company needed it and I didn’t think I could say no without losing professional face in my job. I think more ambivalent than you…you seem to know that you don’t want to do the new thing. I thought *maybe* I didn’t but also found a little spark of interest in spite myself, understood that the company needed it, so wasn’t quite sure. I really loved my job before the new responsibilities, so I didn’t want to put it in jeopardy.

      Within the first year of adding these new responsibilities–the split was roughly 20% new stuff, 80% my original job–I *really* struggled with it, both with feelings of inadequacy at it because it wasn’t my background and I didn’t feel like I knew enough about it, but with the realization that yeah, I didn’t really like this so much. Those feelings took my overall job satisfaction off a cliff. I got depressed. I started job searching. I hated an entire job that I had previously loved–so in a way, I felt like I had lost the job anyway, because I lost my motivation for the job.

      1.5 years in, I have recovered somewhat from that now, so it is not quite that simple. It’s partially that I came to accept that the 20% new stuff isn’t my background so it’s *ok* to not be great at it, that I was still able to learn things from doing it and I have the personal attitude that all knowledge/skills are worth having, and also because I did have a frank conversation with my boss about how I do not feel sure about this new stuff and wanted a very clear sense of what the expectations really were around my performance at it. I believe my exact words were “so how long do I have to deliver results here before I get fired?” Additionally though, I had done a lot of thinking about the 80% of my job that was still my old job, what I had loved about it, why I had felt I was good at it and what benefits I had delivered to the company with it, and how I might pick some projects and goals within that realm that would get me excited again. I pitched those to my boss and he took them, and I did find motivation back for them that’s still carrying me. It’s kind of hit or miss–on days when I have to focus on the new stuff I still run up against the realization that I kind of hate it. But I get other days when I can do the old stuff, so I cling to those.

      1. SophieChotek*

        Thank you for sharing your experience. If I really liked what I did now, and I knew the sales would only be (small percentage)…but I actually don’t love what I do know either (though I think I am reasonably good at it)…

        And like you, in theory, I think/believe I should learn things/other aspects of the company, even if I don’t like it or don’t really think it’s my thing. I guess I am concerned about getting stuck in sales and having really hard quotas/expectations to meet…

    4. AnonGD*

      Would it be possible to spin the “we want to see you grow more” in another direction? As in, tell them that you *would* like to grow more… but in x, y, z areas and not in sales?

      In my experience turning down work that was in an area I didn’t want to grow into was seen as a blanket “she doesn’t want to learn” which was far from the truth!

    5. Frankie*

      Listen to your instincts. I would rather go back to my college cleaning jobs than take on sales. The idea fills me with dread and I’d also suck at it and be unbelievably stressed out, and probably lose company money and get myself fired. Even when desperate I’ve never looked at a sales job ad, because it’d just be a disaster.

      Is there any way you could show them how strong you are in your current area and that you’re just not really built for sales? Make them see that it wouldn’t be in their best interest to put you in such a role. They might see it as a preference or a lack of confidence–make it about the impact it will have on their sales.

      1. SophieChotek*

        I do think I am better in the position I have, but I also know I have not met their (very high) standards in that department. (I.e. not enough earned media placements, for the most part.)

        I agree, I probably have gone about couching it more as about my personal preference and lack of confidence…but part of the entire issue is there is no one doing this job at all right now, but they don’t want to hire anymore people (costs $)…

      2. SophieChotek*

        But yes, my instincts say, the standards/expectations for this job would be even worse than the one I already have…I would just be setting myself up for more failure…

    6. Not So NewReader*

      Can you tell them that you can handle their online orders?

      One way that might work is to show how your current job ties up most of your work week and there is really not much time to spare. You can work into conversation that it is to their best advantage that you remain doing A, B and C for them because of Reasons 1, 2, 3 and 4. (Have this planned out ahead of time so you are not talking off the cuff. Use quiet time at home to figure out your talking points.)

      See, the way you have it framed now is that this is not good for SophieChotek. Where you need to go is showing them how it is NOT good for THEM. It’s all about them. When you start showing them how it is to their advantage that you remain where you are, then you might start gaining ground.

      1. SophieChotek*

        Thank you! It is very helpful for me to think about how I can frame it for it to be about their needs…(must think about this more.)

        (Sadly, no, two other people already handle all the online orders. What they really want is a sales rep to do cold calls/beat the pavement and try to get new clients/buyers on board.)

  34. A Nonnus Mousicus*

    Hello to the AAM hive mind! I work for a young, small company (think less than 40 people) and am in the early-ish stages of pregnancy with my first child. I will be the first female-identifying person at this company to have a baby and the first one to utilize any kind of maternity leave. My direct boss currently knows about my pregnancy and I will be discussing it with the big boss in the next few weeks along with my plan for taking maternity leave. I love working for this company, and I really love my job. My plan is to return once I am done with my leave and utilize as much WFH time as I can. I’d love to hear from anyone who is in a similar situation (small company, went back to work after maternity leave) to hear what worked best for them.

    I firmly believe that my company would support any plan that I come up with, but the issue is coming up with a good, workable plan!

    1. Tea, please*

      Congratulations! I worked at a non-profit with 5 other people when my first was born and at a school after my second.

      Things I appreciated/wish I had:
      1. If you will be breastfeeding when you return: designated pumping space with a “Do Not Disturb” Sign and locked door.
      2. Meetings scheduled in the middle of the day, not right at the start of end of the day. So many times I got something gross on me as I was walking out the door. Or I was up all night and would have appreciated some extra time to get myself together. Or I needed to leave early to pick up a sick kid.
      3. Flex time
      Any policy they put in place (well, except the pumping space) should be something that all other employees have access too, so advocate for that.

      Also, if you work from home, you still need child care on those days. It is impossible to get anything done with a little one around (speaking from experience–like right now when I have to finish up end of the year reports).

      2. Kate Daniels*

        Thank you (from a person who doesn’t have any children) for your comment about how any policy that is put in place is something that other employees should have access to as well! It can be a bit frustrating in some workplaces when employees with kids are allowed to come in late or leave early as needed, but no one else enjoys that flexibility.

    2. J.B.*

      Congratulations!

      Can you stagger your return? Start with less than full days then work up to full time (or continue part time if that’s what you want to ask for). Working from home is fine, but not as a substitute for childcare. Very few babies are so calm that they won’t interfere. How often you want to propose working from home depends on your job. I can’t do much of my job from home as I need to interact with several people. But one day a week or something can be a nice option.

      Also don’t forget to plan for the sickies. They happen eventually to everyone.

      1. A Nonnus Mousicus*

        Thanks! That’s helpful and something that a bunch of my working mother friends have said – childcare is a must even if you are WFH. I am definitely planning to have childcare while I am working from home and my job is such that it’s very possible for me to do that 2-3 days per week.

      2. OtterB*

        I was thinking about the staggered return also. It would have helped me to work half days or even 3/4 days when I first went back, because (a) I was chronically short on sleep, and (b) I knew I didn’t want to be a full time SAHM but I did want more baby time.

        My experience was that things got easier around 3 months, so something that didn’t expect me back full time sooner than that would have been good.

        And yes, as someone else said, discuss how to be as flexible as possible for minor kid heath crises.

    3. Really?*

      Female identifying? It is okay to say the word woman, and using the word female to describe women is a bit gross.

      1. A Nonnus Mousicus*

        That wasn’t my intention at all. I am a woman and the first person at my company to use maternity leave.

      2. Delphine*

        She can use it for herself if she so wishes. And perhaps, in this context, it implies that someone who doesn’t identify as a woman has had a baby at the company. Plus, it doesn’t hurt to try to be inclusive with our language.

        1. Really?*

          Why not say first person? Why bring gender into it at all.

          And people whether cis or trans who identify as women are women. It is gross to call anyone female identifying

          1. A Nonnus Mousicus*

            Again, not my intention in any way and I apologize if that was how it came across.

              1. blaise zamboni*

                Me too. Your heart is in the right place. I definitely see where Really? is coming from though, and I think it’s an important point.

                Maybe you can use “femme-presenting” instead? (More inclusive to people who are agender or nonbinary, imo.) But I am happy to be corrected if that’s not a good word either.

    4. Good, Cheap, or Soon. Pick Two.*

      For the love of all that is good… plan for what you aren’t going to do. Thinking of using formula? Structure your return like you’re going to breastfeed. Planning on having a natural birth at home? Assume you’re going to have a complicated C-section that means you can’t drive or climb stairs for longer than you would think. The last thing you want to do is try to scramble to arrange extra time or support while you’re going through something that’s bigger than you expected. Having that built in flexibility is a way of handling it and it’s also a good way of reminding yourself to not get too attached to plans. Another thing is to plan on having a date night before you return to work. It sounds silly but it’s a small way of letting yourself dip a toe in the babysitting world before you have to rely on them for more than a brief dinner or movie. Chances are, you will need to call on one at some point after you return to work and it’s a lot easier to do that if you’ve done so in fun circumstances first.

      J.B. is right, you’re going to need childcare when you’re working from home. Newborns need too much time and attention for you to reasonably accomplish any significant goals. Seriously, you can barely get a load of dishes on reliably. Don’t assume you’re going to be able to get your full workload cleared out. As for the actual return, one of the things that really helped me was that my boss had me stop by for a quick meeting with my team the week before I actually came back. This was invaluable because I got information on what I was walking into; I was able to organize my thoughts, grab some documentation to go over at my own pace, get back into that headspace after being out of work mode for a while, and learn about the new projects that had started. It also let my team see that, no, I had not turned into a furry demon with three heads simply because I had a baby.

      1. Tea, please*

        Great suggestions—a couple more: prepare for the baby to be early and (if you do work after you get home in the evening) prepare to not be able to continue doing that.
        I’d also suggest that your boss own what leave coverage looks like, not you. For my first, I had to interview and hire my coverage and make the plan for transferring different projects to various staff. This didn’t and still doesn’t make sense to me because I wasn’t around to manage the staff.

        Also, returning to work after a baby is hard— even for someone like me who couldn’t wait to get back to work—in ways I would have never thought of or understood pre baby. Besides staggering your return, you need to figure out reasonable expectations (both yours and your bosses) about your work production. Maybe you don’t take on all your projects back on immediately. Maybe ask for longer timelines to finish something. By setting yourself up for success when you return, I bet you’ll get back to full capacity sooner than if you try to do everything at once.

  35. Dee Dee*

    Manager two pay grades above me in a meeting: “I just realized that we haven’t done X, Y, and Z and this is turning into a big problem! Why haven’t we done this?”

    Me (in my head): “BECAUSE YOU INSISTED WE PROCEED WITHOUT DOING X, Y, and Z WHICH IS WHAT I USUALLY DO BUT YOU PREVENTED ME FROM DOING THESE THINGS IN SPITE OF ME REPEATEDLY INSISTING THIS WOULD LEAD TO THE SITUATION WE ARE NOW IN!”

    Me (in the meeting): “…”

    1. SophieChotek*

      Ugh. Any documentation to prove this manager insisted not doing X, Y, and Z…?

      So frustrating when you can see this coming…

    4. Lady By The Lake*

      “As you may recall, you had instructed previously that we proceed without X, Y and Z. Would you like us to go back and do that now?”

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Perfect. This is how to handle that situation, OP. I have used it myself. The key is to land on the redirect, where you redirect the conversation to current time. “Would you like us to that now?” This pulls the boss away from rehashing the past and everyone moves forward. Hopefully.

    5. Totally Minnie*

      Ugh. I hate the “Why didn’t you do that thing I told you not to do?!” conversation. There’s no way to win.

    6. mrs_helm*

      Request for server upgrade…denied.
      Request for server upgrade…denied.
      Server goes down hard…”Why do we have such a crappy server?”

      1. Not So NewReader*

        “Because we did not upgrade the last two times we discussed this. Would you like to do that upgrade now?”

  36. Tara S.*

    How would you guys handle interacting with someone who is returning from compassionate leave?

    One of the senior researchers I support has been out because her son died. He had disabilities, but was only around 11 and the death was sudden and unexpected. I have stopped all work contact while she is out, as her co-team lead has been the main person interfacing between her and work. I will continue to be mostly routing things through other team member as she transitions back into work, but I’m not sure what would be the most compassionate way to interact with her once she’s back in the office. Do I acknowledge it the first time I see her with a “so sorry for your loss, please let me know if there’s anything I can help with” and then just resume typical business communication?

    1. StressedButOkay*

      As someone who dealt with a sudden and shocking death in the family several years ago, saying something brief like that and getting back to business communication is a great way of handling it. When I came back to work after a week, I appreciated SO MUCH that people gave me space. I appreciated the acknowledgement of my grief but I needed, absolutely, to throw myself back into work so I had some place where I could stop thinking about it.

      So, keep it brief unless they come to you for support.

      2. Not So NewReader*

        Yep. Loss puts such a huge hole in our lives. Sometimes the only sense of consistency in our current life we find is at work. Don’t turn the workplace into something awkward. You can keep an eye and still keep a polite distance. Some stuff is common sense, such as you are leaving and you see her car does not start. Yes, go over and help. But you probably would anyway, or you would get someone to help.

      3. JessicaTate*

        I will second/third the advice to give her space and be professional (in the absolute kindest way). I might add to think about nixing the “please let me know if there’s anything I can help with.” We all (self included) tend to say this to grieving people, and it’s kind of useless. It puts the responsibility of asking for help on the person who may be in a fog of grief, and ends up being a bit of a throw-away sentiment. Instead, if you notice something at work where you could step in and be helpful to her juggling so much as she comes back, just offer to do it.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I definitely agree with a very brief acknowledgment that she is going through a difficult time and then keeping things as normal as possible is your best bet. Take your cues from her, but I know I’m the kind of person who is more likely to cry if someone is offering me sympathy.

      Be patient with her and maybe offer to take specific things off of her plate if you can?

    3. I am who I am*

      The only thing I’d add to the previous responses would be to ask her manager if the Mom had any specific requests. That may prompt her (the manager) to ask the mom and pass on her preferences to the appropriate coworkers.

      1. Anonymous Ampersand*

        +1. I used to work with a woman whose partner died out of the blue. When she returned to work we were given a first message to say “it’s nice to see you” and not acknowledge her loss.

        A couple of years later we did end up talking about it in the office and I got to say then how sorry I was.

        Can’t emphasize enough how important it is to get messages out if possible.

    4. Gumby*

      Definitely keep it short though. Because too much sympathy might make said co-worker cry and no one wants to cry at work. (It took very little to set me off shortly after a family member died. So the less said the better almost.)

    5. Sybil Fawlty*

      Your response sounds great to me. I had this happen to me (but my son only lived to seven years of age), and I remember just being emotionally exhausted. One mention is nice and then on to typical business.

  37. Unsure*

    Is it normal, or let me say common, to feel like you’re not learning anything at work? I not only feel that way about my job but in talking to coworkers… I feel like I’m the smartest person at my job (hopefully that doesn’t sound as bad as I think it does, not sure how else to phrase it)…

    Is this usual? Are there work places where you feel happy, engaged and like you are learning most days? Maybe I’m too much of an idealist… but I miss feeling like there is so much interesting stuff out there for me to sink my teeth into… I spend so much time explaining simple things to coworkers, waiting for simple things to be done and usually they are done poorly.. I don’t think I can work at a place like this much longer…

    Thanks,

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I’ve never felt I haven’t been learning anything at any job I’ve had. You should definitely look for a new job!

    2. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

      No additional comments to be made other that commiseration – currently in the same boat and I am MISERABLE. I even took on a project no one else wanted to do in the entire organization just to a) have something to do and b) put myself in a challenging position to learn something, anything – in this case dealing with poor line management and some new software. Those days when I was learning the new software were amazing and I felt like my old self again and since then…. nothing.

      I also underutilized so just to keep my mind going I am working on freecodecamp for HTML and CSS stuff at work to have something to learn and explore some personal interests in UX research (potentially) or just grow some new skills while I look for the next job up. Is there anything you can learn/teach yourself, even if it is only tangential to your job, to keep the insanity at bay?

    3. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      How old are you? Or, more to the point, how far into your career are you?

      It’s sometimes hard for high-achieving students to transition from the academic world to the professional world. At work, you don’t always get to chew on the big questions that you do in school — and you don’t get recognized for your intellectual abilities or achievement in the same way.

      But there are lots and lots of things to learn at work; they’re just different things, more focused on human relationships. How to navigate power differentials; how to recognize a problem that you can’t solve and who you should bring in to help you; code-switching; writing for different audiences; etc.

      If you’re genuinely not learning any of that stuff, then yeah, I’d move on. But first I’d think about reframing the way I thought about learning.

    4. Frankie*

      In early low-level jobs I felt this a lot and would teach myself software in my off time. For really rote work I would listen to podcasts or books on tape.

      As I’ve progressed into higher level jobs there’s been increasingly more advanced stuff to learn, including more self-directed research which is a really great fit for me. Not sure how long you’ve been in the working world but over time you start to find what you’re really great at, and you find jobs that are progressively more suited to you.

      Have you ever done an in-depth job assessment that focuses on types of work rather than just fields? I did some of those when I was in entry-level job limbo, and they helped me clarify to myself what exactly I found satisfying to do all day.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      I think most work places feel like this to some degree if we stay at them very long.

      It does sound like it’s time for you to move on. I hope you are actively looking. And it sounds to me like work ethic is important to you. (me, too!) So as you job hunt pay closer attention to the work ethic culture of the potential employer.

    6. Annon for this*

      I am bored stiff at work. I have plenty to do, but it is mind numbing.
      I read AAM to keep my mind engaged. I do wish I was in a more interesting field with knowledgeable coworkers.
      Most of the customers and vendors that I talk to are meh. Many of them never respond to requests until crisis mode ensues; which is totally normal in this industry.
      Not going anywhere since I am less than 5 miles from home and the pay is excellent.

  38. SophieChotek*

    Sorry for two posts…

    I have an interview this afternoon with a non-profit. It would be a set-up (perhaps, or perhaps lateral) in terms of position, but it would be a pretty big step-down in pay. This is just a first screening, but combined with issues at work (above)….

    So nervous! Due to so much going on at work, I’ve had practically no time to prepare…=(

    Thanks for your good thoughts!

      1. SophieChotek*

        Thanks. I did not totally bomb the interview…it went okay. Better than I expected considering this is my first interview in 3 years…and I had no time to prepare…

        Hoping I make it to the next round!

  39. First time poster*

    Hi, just wondering if anyone has any suggestions for how to deal with cold hands in the office! My cubicle is on the cold side of the floor (the company has tried to improve the situation, but we’re just tenants of a larger building, and the building management hasn’t been too helpful), and sometimes it gets to the point where my hands physically hurt from the cold.

    Things I’ve already tried:
    – gloves (impeded typing and didn’t help that much)
    – gloves that plug into my computer USB and have warming pads (worked for a while, but I think the quality wasn’t that great, so now they don’t really heat up as much)
    – space heater (warms the whole area a bit which helps, but it tends to overwarm the general area without actually warming my hands, unless I hold my hand about an inch from the surface)
    – more clothes/blankets (helps with the rest of the body, but again not concentrated enough on the hands)
    – hot beverages (effects fade a bit too quickly so I have to go back and forth to the kitchen too often – it might be okay if I happened to sit closer)

    I’m thinking about the hand warmer packets, but I would probably go through the disposable ones way too quickly! Wondering if anyone has had success with any other solutions? Thanks!)

    1. Super stressed*

      what about a smaller space heater that you could put on your desk and point at your hands?

    2. Self employed*

      I think there are USB cup warmers— you could have a ceramic mug of water that stays warm continuously. That could help.

    3. Snubble*

      Since you’ve been allowed to use gloves and blankets , I think you could probably get away with a hot water bottle? I sometimes bring one in to work when I’m having back issues and I’ve noticed it sits quite comfortably in front of my keyboard – I don’t keep it there routinely because that’s not the part of me that aches, but for cold hands I think it would help a lot. You can get good results from warming the large blood vessels rather than the extremity, so if you rested your wrists on a warm thing, it might keep your fingers happy. Plus, refillable, and stays warm for at least an hour.

    4. A Nonnus Mousicus*

      I’ve found that fingerless gloves help a bit (fellow cold-hand sufferer here). If it’s possible to get a small desk-sized space heater that would probably help as well.

      1. Nanc*

        I agree with the fingerless gloves. I’m partial to IMAK Arthritis Gloves which are about $10 a pair. You can find them in drug stores or Walmart type places. They’re pretty thin so your fingers don’t feel so clumsy. They’re machine washable and dryable and come in different sizes. I usually go through a pair a year at the office because I wear them even in summer as my little corner seems to be the favorite spot for the AC to go and hang!

      2. The Dread Pirate Buttercup*

        I’ve found wrist bands are actually weirdly more helpful than fingerless gloves, but the real secret is, counter-intuitively enough, a humidifier. 50% humidity, more or less, feels MUCH warmer than the same temperature at a lower humidity, and will often be the happy bridge between the perpetually-shivering and that one person who complains that he can’t wear cargo shorts on casual Fridays in January.

        1. The Dread Pirate Buttercup*

          (Some people will grumble that “humidity is hard on computer equipment.” 1. Yes, in the seventies, that was true; 2. Decent humidity prevents dried skin, which becomes dust, which is a bigger problem for computer equipment in general.

      3. Anonymosity*

        Yeah, I use those hand/wrist supports you can buy at the drugstore (for helping with my wrists). They fit snugly and the fabric retains my body heat.

    5. Murphy*

      I’ve used fingerless gloves/mittens. Hand warmer packets inside those maybe? There’s got to be some reusable ones, or a way to make some.

      1. NotaPirate*

        I’ve a pair of reusable hand warmers! They are chemical based. You “crack” them much like glowsticks and they stay warm for several hours. Then they solidify and stop producing heat. To reuse you put them in boiling water for 6 minutes or so till they turn back to gel. Amazon should have some, the store I got mine from no longer sells them.

        1. Karma*

          Yes! I have 6 of them so I have backups and they are a lifesaver in winter. I’ve also bought them for a friend who rides a bike to work even in winter and she’s been known to tuck them into her bra to keep her torso warm.

    6. BadWolf*

      I knit myself a pair of fingerless mitts and they seem to work pretty well.

      Or maybe a shirt with extra long sleeves — or those sporty shirts that have a thumb hole so they’re designed to come down mid-hand?

    7. Jascha*

      I have severe Raynaud’s syndrome, and some things that help me are:
      – gloves with silver thread (sounds gimmicky, but works)
      – self-heating or battery-heated gloves (two different things)
      – reusable handwarmers (the kind that snap to go solid and heat, and then you boil or microwave them to get them liquid again)
      – a wheat bag or hot water bottle

      If it’s just the cold that’s bothering you, those are my best suggestions – but in case you actually have Raynaud’s, just so you know, the medications you can get have an AMAZING effect (at least for me).

    8. zora*

      The solution for me has been an electric blanket/heating pad. I have a $12 one from the drugstore. And i keep it on my lap/against my stomach. It just warms my core, instead of a space heater warming the whole space. And then I periodically can put my hands on it and they warm up and stay warm for a bit.

      But I also have thin, acrylic fingerless gloves that I wear for most of the winter. I am a cold person.

    9. TCO*

      You can buy or make microwaveable hand warmers (basically little cloth packets filled with rice). They might not stay warm long enough for your needs, but they’re worth looking in to.

    10. Midlife Tattoos*

      One of my employees wears knit gloves with the fingertips cut off so her hands are warm but she can still type.

    11. BRR*

      Long shot but any chance to can move cubes? If there are no open cubes can you see if anybody in a warmer spot would be interested in switching? Maybe someone likes it cold and is in a warm spot.

    13. Lindsay J*

      They do have 12 hour warmer packs used for hunting, etc. Not sure how well they would work for your application, though. And even using one pair a day that’s still an additional cost of a couple bucks every day.

      Zippo also makes reusable hand warmers apparently. One that you fill with lighter fluid, and one that is USB rechargable. I found them on Amazon, but have never used them personally so I couldn’t really give a recommendation one way or another. They’re in the $10-$25 range. Basically a small item that heats up that you hold onto that works similar to a hand warmer or a hot drink.

      1. First time poster*

        Just wanted to say thank you for all the suggestions above! I look forward to trying them out and finding one that works — and I’m glad I’m not the only one with the problem!

      2. Star Nursery*

        Can you ask your building manager to check the heat? They might be able to adjust it?

        Some people I know keep a thermometer at their desk.

        I’ve used a rechargable hand warmer. I haven’t taken it to work just events like football games or outdoor events where I’m cold. Love it!

        Also I heard that you can buy a computer mouse that warms your hand. I found my one hand on my mouse was really cold and my other hand holding a mug of hot water or tea was fine.

        Warm sweater or fleece jacket or blanket across my lap.

    15. Jukeboxx32*

      My SO has this issue. His solution was to move a crappy desk lamp to his cubicle and treat it like a handwarmer. Apparently the crappier, the better, since they put off more heat and you don’t have to hold onto them as long.

      1. Chaordic One*

        Yes! Get one with an old-fashioned regular light bulb (makes much more heat than an LED bulb, but they’re getting a bit harder to find) and a metal lamp shade. Be careful with the metal lamp shade. You don’t want to unintentionally bump into it and burn yourself.

  40. Mrs. C*

    Hi, all. Hoping for some advice on a resume question for Mr. C. We’re revamping his resume and debating what to put in a “profile” section. He’s had two main jobs that were very different from each other, and isn’t completely sure what he wants to do next, but he has three main skill areas common to both jobs and which he’ll try to seek in his next position as well.

    So far, we have something along the lines of “A dynamic and motivated professional with five years of experience in X, Y, and Z.” We don’t love the phrase “dynamic and motivated professional,” but I do think that having a profile section is helpful for him because it draws attention to those common skills honed in dissimilar jobs.

    Is there a better wording to start the sentence? Or do you have alternate thoughts on how to highlight the common thread in an interesting way other than a Profile section?

    1. Ali G*

      I would stay away from the subjective adjectives. Mine starts with “Professional with 14+ years experience, including, X, Y and Z, seeking the opportunity to {inset goal here}.
      Make sure X, Y and Z encompass attributes that are integral to the job, or show that he is “dynamic and motivated” if that is what you are going for.

    2. Emi.*

      I would just not have a profile section, because it seems totally subjective and whatever you want to say there could probably be explained more convincingly and with less fluff in a cover letter.

    3. zora*

      I think he should pick 2 or at the most 3 directions for what he is looking for/applying for. If you cast too wide a net, it makes it much harder to find something and to sound convincing as a candidate (ask me how I know) . And then write that many versions of the resume with the profile being more specific to that direction. Does that make sense? Being too general in the profile is a waste of space.

      1. Mrs. C*

        Totally makes sense. We’re planning to hone in more on figuring out his interests/those 2-3 directions to apply for, but we’re taking baby steps (starting with the resume update) to keep the process from feeling too overwhelming.

        1. zora*

          Baby steps is DEFINITELY a good idea!! Maybe write a general profile for now, knowing that you plan to make it more specific once you start picking specific jobs to apply for.

  41. Super stressed*

    So, I have a good problem: juggling job offers. Job A I have gotten a verbal offer from, but then had a follow-up interview and I don’t know where it stands. Job B I have a formal offer from (knock on wood – I was told I’d be emailed the offer today). The job descriptions are pretty similar but are in different industries, have their own pros and cons, and right now I can’t say I definitively want one or the other.
    Anyway, here’s why I’m posting: Job B would pay 5,000 less than Job A. If I could get a little more money from Job B, that would definitely sway me. I already plan to use scripts Alison has posted, but I’m wondering if I can leverage Job A in the conversation? Or should I avoid it, considering the fact that I don’t have a formal offer from A yet, and that the two jobs are in totally different industries (Also, Job A’s industry is known to be more lucrative)?

    1. Tragic The Gathering*

      I’d think it best to negotiate Job B without mention of Job A. Since they’re in different industries, their market values can’t really be compared.

      I think for you, though, having Job A in your pocket should make negotiating for Job B less scary, since you know you can walk away and still end up ok.

    2. gecko*

      Avoid it, for all the reasons you listed. The two jobs being in different industries does matter. Might be worth it to negotiate with job B anyway, though!

  42. Anon to me*

    So I’m hiring for a position in my department, and I’m having a disagreement with our HR person.

    Our HR person receives all resumes and vets them. This is pretty standard. I’m traveling for work for the next week, and has indicated that she will be selecting candidates to interview and do the first round interview. Typically, as the hiring manager I participate in the first interview. I find this vital as the HR person doesn’t understand the role, and often provides misinformation about the position (I have the ability to then correct that during my one-on-one). Our HR person’s argument is that the market is so tight that she doesn’t have time to wait until I’m back in the office to conduct these interviews.

    To me if the market is that tight we need to increase the salary range. Waiting a week to collect resumes and take the time to schedule first round interviews doesn’t seem like if would impact much.

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      Would it be possible to take part in the interviews remotely? If not, I agree, you should be involved, and if waiting a week is what it takes, so be it.

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      Yeah, a week is nothing to wait to get a good hire. And, honestly, what industry are you in that if you wait a week, you lose a great candidate? In every hiring process I’ve been involved in, it takes at least two or three weeks, if not two or three months, to get through the whole process (submit résumé, schedule phone interview, do phone interview, do in-person interview, do second interview, get references checked, get job offer). If I don’t hear back about a phone interview after a week, I certainly haven’t written off whatever place I applied to.

    3. zora*

      That is bizarre, a week is nothing in the hiring process. Plus, for anyone you lose to another job in a week, you are just as likely to gain someone who didn’t start looking until the second week. That makes no sense, if you can as the hiring manager, I would push back and insist that she wait for you to get back to start interviews and you will live with the consequences.

    4. Creeping Around Dagobah*

      Zora and AE are spot on.
      Does HR have different information than you, like a vacation planned soon?
      I used to leave a job posting up at least two weeks before organizing all the resumes.

  43. Frustrated freelancer*

    Wondering how long it should be considered reasonable for a freelance writer to get paid? I have a “gentleman’s agreement” (I was stupid and didn’t get anything in writing when they came to me and asked me to freelance for them) with my former employer to write for up to $200 per month. As of yesterday’s mail, I have not been paid for work done in February, March or April and I am getting quite anxious. Just wondering if this is normal. (Thankfully I have other work that pays most of the bills.)

    1. Self employed*

      I mean, 30 days is standard to me. I assume you’ve asked the status on your invoices?

      1. Frustrated freelancer*

        Thanks! In April I included with my invoice “please pay me for February and March.” Two weeks ago I told my supervisor that this needed to get resolved, and he looked into it and said the person in charge would take care of it. But nothing yet.

        1. zora*

          Your latest invoice should include the total amount they still owe you, not just a reference to the current month. Be really clear on the invoice what the total amount is that they currently owe you.

    2. Susan Sto Helit*

      Have you invoiced them already? And have they given you any payment yet, or was the February work the first?

      It can take time for companies to get freelancers set up on payment systems, but most should pay you 30 days after the date on your invoice (42 days max). If you haven’t invoiced I’d suggest doing so immediately, and backdating the invoices to when the work was completed. Then sit back and see what response you get. Don’t keep writing for them if someone doesn’t assure you they’re going to resolve this swiftly though!

      1. Frustrated freelancer*

        I invoice at the end of each month. They paid me for November, December (after the January check, because I told them I hadn’t gotten December’s) and January. It is my intent to resign this month due to this, but I wanted to see if I was being unreasonable. Thanks for your help!

        1. Moonbeam Malone*

          If you haven’t already, create a statement listing unpaid invoices and total it up with the full balance due at the bottom, big and bold. Mark it “Past Due.” Attach copies of all the outstanding invoices behind it and send that over to them.

          You can also let them know you will not be able to complete more work for them until they have paid their past due balance. You don’t exactly have to “resign,” though it is a good professional courtesy to give them some notice if you have an ongoing agreement. (That said, they’re not following their end of the agreement if you haven’t been paid in so long.)

    3. WellRed*

      If I hear a freelancer hasn’t gotten paid since February, I bring it to the attention of accounting. Seriously, 30 days.

    4. Natalie*

      >I was stupid and didn’t get anything in writing when they came to me and asked me to freelance for them

      No time like the present. You might be thinking “they won’t like this and will stop hiring me”, but right now you’re working for free. Not getting hired by them would actually be an improvement, since you would no longer have to do the work to get the zero dollars they’re giving you.

    5. Anonymous Educator*

      In the future, don’t just get it in writing they will pay you but also the timeframe in which they will pay you after they’ve been invoiced.

      1. Anonymosity*

        Yes, have something like “net 30 days” or whatever on your invoices and contracts. Don’t do work without an agreement up front.

    6. JessicaTate*

      Agree that Net 30 is the standard (write it on the invoice to be clear, in case they have a squirrelly accounts payable department), and next time contract it up (but you know this already). And clients who treat contractors this way aren’t worth having.

      The other thing I’d suggest is not turning in any more work until you are paid for prior work. You could communicate that in writing in an email: “I’m owed $XXXX from invoices submitted on Date, Date, and Date. Until I receive payment for those overdue invoices, I will not be submitting any further work product to you. Once I receive payment, I will be happy to resume work and provide the agreed-upon product. For any work going forward, I would like to establish a formal contract, so that we can be sure we have a mutual understanding about these issues. Thanks for understanding.” As someone else said, you are working for free right now. Stop giving them anything of value until they show evidence of holding up their end of the bargain.

    7. Matilda the Hun*

      Don’t call it a gentleman’s agreement- you had a verbal contract, and those are legally binding.

    8. Frustrated freelancer*

      Thanks everyone! I appreciate your thoughtful comments and now I have an idea of what to do going forward. I do feel my situation is a little unique in that most of my requests come from outside the company, and hope this little story will help explain why I feel I am in a catch-22 …

      Customer: I love the designs you make on Company’s teapots. Can you please make me a floral-patterned teapot?
      Me: Supervisor, may I make a floral-patterned teapot for Customer?
      Supervisor: Sure!
      Me (makes design for customer): Company, you owe me $x for the teapot design I made for Customer.
      Company: ***crickets***
      Customer #2: Can you please make me an animal-patterned teapot?
      Me (to myself): No! They haven’t paid me for the last one!
      Me (to customer, who has no idea that Company takes their sweet time paying): Uh, sure!
      (Gets permission, makes it, invoices, ***crickets***)
      Customer #3: Can you please make me a beach-themed teapot?
      Me (to myself): I don’t want to cut ties with Company before I make this one and theoretically eventually get money for it, but I can’t really tell Customer they aren’t paying until I cut ties …
      etc., etc.

      1. JessicaTate*

        That is a complication. I would think about if you could shift responsibility to Company. Effectively they are subcontracting to you, getting some sort of financial and reputation benefit from Customer (I assume), but leaving you on the hook for everything. I assume that there’s a reason you couldn’t directly contract with Customer to do the design work… ?

        I’d be thinking about ways to (threaten to) professionally “out” Company to Customer about their non-payment since you are the contact. “I’m so sorry you’re teapot design isn’t going to be done as promised. Unfortunately Company hasn’t paid me for several prior pieces, and I’ve had to stop work until that resolves.” Put the Comany’s sale/client relationship in jeopardy. Just a thought, not knowing the particulars of your field. Good luck! Self-employed folks must stick together.

    9. Creeping Around Dagobah*

      Call. Speak to your direct client and ask for help getting paid, as well as the name of the person in accounting that can help you. Immediately connect with the person in accounting. Follow up 2 days later and ask when they will mail a check. Also ask how it works from there on out. Emailing accounting, mailing invoices, etc.

  44. Shouldn't quit but need to*

    I think my husband has to quit his job without another lined up, or really even a hope of getting another easily. His work history is…unconventional. Short version: Self-employed for 6 yrs (with various side gigs), then a 1 yr part time, then 8 months at current job. He can’t continue, this job is driving his health into the ground and we’ve hit a wall. He can’t job search in his current mental state while working the crazy overnight schedule with long hours. We can get by on my income, but will lose our health insurance. He communicated with his boss about his limitations and let them know he’d be quitting by x date if they can’t adjust his hours (which they intend to do but there is no specific timeline and he’s been waiting for months). He’s on good terms with his boss and they want to keep him but there’s a lot out of everyone’s control.
    Is there any option I’m not seeing? He doesn’t qualify for FMLA having not been there a year.

    1. mrs_helm*

      If they can’t change his shift, can they at least give him a few Mondays off? (Even if it is a sort of informal understanding of “I will be taking X Monday as a sick day”) Then he can use the weekend to recover and Monday to interview. It’s not perfect, but for both parties it seems better than him quitting.

    2. Bob*

      Would his physical or mental health issues be covered by ADA? It might be worth checking into to see if you can pursue it as a reasonable accommodation.

  45. stitchinthyme*

    Just wondering if anyone else listened to the This American Life episode a couple of weeks ago about LaDonna Powell’s sexual harassment allegations against Allied Universal. It was a pretty powerful show — basically, LaDonna is a very outspoken woman who saw and experienced a lot of really horrendous stuff, first as an airport security guard and then as a supervisor. Her male bosses didn’t even bother to try and hide their racist and sexist comments, demanded sexual favors from female employees, and abused the ones who refused by doing things like giving them the worst shifts and refusing to send out someone to relieve them when they needed to use a bathroom. She kept trying to report it, but management and HR ignored her, and eventually she was fired. When asked for comment, the CEO basically implied that she was lying and that she had not used “proper channels” for her reports (she had). And none of the male managers were ever fired; some were just reassigned but most of them are still working there in some capacity. And those who filed lawsuits (they mentioned 11, not including LaDonna’s) mostly had them settled and had to sign NDAs so they’re not allowed to talk about them.

    The bit that got to me the most is the one where LaDonna tried to intervene on behalf of another employee who got raped by a coworker. The victim refused to press charges and the rape happened off hours and off the premises, but LaDonna at least tried to get management to stop assigning her to work with the rapist — and they refused.

    I’ve never directly experienced anything like this myself, but it makes me wonder: what’s a woman’s recourse when the “proper channels” don’t work, lawsuits only serve to shut people up, and the company makes zero effort to address or fix the problem?

    1. OlympiasEpiriot*

      Call Bryan Mills?

      Honestly, I don’t know. the shit I’ve dealt with has never gone that far. Her story is dreadful and she is a rock for dealing with it; but, I just kept thinking how exhausting all of this is for her.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Yes, I did. It was incredibly frustrating and I honestly don’t know what the answer is. I guess the court of public opinion. I mean, yeah, getting a cash settlement would be nice, but if I could afford it, I’d rather put them on blast.

      1. stitchinthyme*

        I hope that’s what this show does! There were some encouraging signs at the end, like the fact that the government is now investigating the allegations as well…and they’re the customer, in this case.

    3. Regular going anon*

      LaDonna went though so much and I have so much respect for her, but I wish she would have respected the wishes of her colleague who was raped. I was raped by a supervisor at a previous job. I would have been traumatized and devestated if someone had tried to intervene despite me not wanting this. Ladonna should have left it alone. It’s one thing for her not to have wanted to work with the supervisor herself and to report him to management once, but it was out of line for her to continually intervene on behalf of the colleague against her wishes. She should not have done that.

      1. stitchinthyme*

        I’m honestly really torn on that one. I’ve never had anything like this happen to me, so I concede the fact that I cannot possibly know how it feels. But while I agree that it should be the victim’s choice what (if anything) to do, I also get really frustrated at the fact that so many choose to stay silent, to not speak up, not press charges, not sue…basically, not be like LaDonna. I know quite well why so many make that choice: they’re already traumatized, and the system is often just un-helpful to survivors, but outright hostile, and many companies would react exactly the same way Allied did. But another part of me thinks, how is this ever going to change if women continue to keep silent? I hope the #metoo movement continues and picks up steam, because this crap has gone on way, way too long.

        So although intellectually I agree with you, I can’t help but feel like LaDonna did the right thing in at least trying to limit the employee’s exposure to her rapist.

        1. stitchinthyme*

          (Oops: That sentence in the first paragraph should read “…the system is often NOT just un-helpful to survivors…”)

          Also, for whatever it’s worth, although I’m well aware that my feelings might be different if I were the one in this position and not just thinking about it abstractly, I think that I might or might not want to pursue anything on my own, but I would be happy to have someone like LaDonna there to advocate for me when I couldn’t do it for myself.

    4. Frustrated Optimist*

      I listened to that episode of This American Life in horror. =(

      I wondered if she could have filed an EEOC complaint. But I think that’s such an involved process that you almost need a lawyer to help you with it, and she may not have had those resources available.

    5. Reba*

      I’m glad you brought this up, as I was curious about the AAM hivemind response and wanting to recommend the episode, too. (It’s number 647, simply titled “LaDonna.”)

      My spouse and I listened in the car and we were both *screaming* LADONNAAAA! She is a hero. I loved the matter of fact way that she was just like, “I am awesome, I care about work, and I am going places.”

      And the episode definitely did not end on a narratively-satisfying note, instead just increasing in horror.

      1. stitchinthyme*

        Yeah. LaDonna has a better job now, which is great, but she still has to see at least one of the people who traumatized her, and (at the risk of armchair-diagnosing her), her description of how she felt when she spotted one of them in the airport sounded a lot like PTSD to me.

        Her lawsuit against Allied is still ongoing, though. I hope she doesn’t settle. Just from what I learned about her from this episode, it doesn’t sound like that’s likely, but even kick-ass women like her have their breaking points, and she also has to fight a company that has bottomless resources when it comes to being able to afford lawyers — which I suspect LaDonna does not.

      2. stitchinthyme*

        Also, I was kind of surprised I was the first one to bring it up, as the episode aired a couple weeks ago (I only just listened to it yesterday). I did a search to make sure, but found no mention of it, so I figured it was a good topic for the Friday open thread.

    6. Jennifer*

      I heard it and I was mad for hours afterwards.
      Unfortunately, I think there really isn’t anything anyone can do short of well, hitting the media like in this case. The culture/men in charge do. not. want. this to change for anything, so….?

      1. stitchinthyme*

        This quote keeps going around and around in my head with all the news that’s been happening: “When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.” People who have held all the power over everyone for so long are not going to give it up without a fight.

  46. Long but would love some advice!*

    I am currently working a one year maternity leave cover role in an office. I like it but my problem is that the team I’m part of is never on track with their work and they always end up working weekends. I don’t have any need to work weekends because I don’t have any work outstanding, but they have the mentality of “if I have to be here, so does everyone else”. I have been here for two months and they have asked me to work all weekend 3 times now, weekend hours are expected to be 7am-4pm both Saturday and Sunday. The first two times I had a legitimate excuse that they were aware of (events and going out of town), but this most recent one I had to make up. I was just asked today at 8am if I can come in tomorrow and Sunday all day. I panicked because I haven’t been feeling that great this week (see below) and I know that I need the weekend to recover. I do have plans but they are minor ones that I could change if I needed to, although I feel weird letting my work determine which are important plans and which are not.

    There is one person who doesn’t come in on weekends and that’s because she has two kids and her husband works all weekend.

    The thing is, that a few months before starting this job I suffered from a severe mental breakdown, which was heavily brought on by my work situation for the past few years. I have been working with doctors with creating a program and sticking to it and I’m mostly doing great. This week I have started to feel drained and anxious again but I have things I am going to do this weekend to help me get back to feeling okay. Part of that program is being able to give myself to my job for my required hours and then focus on myself outside of work, and this program will only work if I have a job that doesn’t take over my life. When I leave work at the end of the day I’m exhausted and drained, but I’m mostly okay because I have things I focus on outside of work to prevent myself from another breakdown. As much as I’m doing well, I’m still very much in recovery. It also has helped me mentally knowing that this job is just a one year contract.

    The few times that I haven’t been able to follow this program, I have definitely suffered so I’m trying really hard to make it work.

    This job is a step down career wise for me but it’s the step I needed to take in order to work on getting better. Before I accepted the job I discussed hours of work and OT requirements to make sure it would align with the program I’m on and I was told that it was 7am-4pm M-F with very little, and most likely no OT. This is very much a M-F typical office job, and not getting weekends off didn’t even cross my mind because I have never had to work weekends in this type of role (I have 16 years experience). Because this job is a step down, I’m finding that I can do it very easily and I have never left the office at the end of the day with any work left to do. I have also assisted with projects and helped others to hit their deadlines

    I don’t know how to deal with this? I can’t keep saying no to the OT because they will probably end up firing me. But I’m really not comfortable sharing my health issues with them, this company has a lot of employees dealing with mental health issues (high in this industry) and this team isn’t very supportive. Also, I have outside connections with a couple of team members and I really don’t want my health issues to become something that everyone knows about.

    I feel like I’m in such a lose lose situation. If I don’t come in on weekends the I’m getting frowned upon, if I do come in on weekends I push my recovery back.

    1. Another Person*

      You could try telling them you have other commitments on the weekend that make it not possible for you to work – you have a family member to take care of. Yourself. But you don’t have to tell them that. I think the basic premise is to make it clear you have other commitments on the weekends that you can’t get out of (like the woman who has kids does), but make it clear you’re happy to step up and do whatever is needed during your regular work hours to help out.

      1. Long but would love some advice!*

        I like this idea, instead of framing it as “I can’t work this weekend because I have plans” changing it to “I can’t work weekends”. The job is a standard M-F office job and I have never had a weekend requirement in any of these jobs, so I think it would be fair to say that I presumed that I wouldn’t be working weekends.

        I am constantly offering my help during the week and asking people what I can take off their plates (I’m bored almost all week), but no one takes me up on the offer and then they panic at the end of the week.

        The situation with this week is a project that they need help with and I feel awful for saying no, but I truly am not having a great week mentally. I was suffering from heart palpitations and dizziness earlier this week from the anxiety and I feel like I need a rest!

      2. Eleanor de Wardon*

        You didn’t say whether you are an exempt or non-exempt employee? Are they paying you for overtime? And what do you do during these extra hours if you have all of your work done?

        1. Long but would love some advice!*

          I am non-exempt, I do not get paid for OT.

          During the times when I have nothing to do, I sit here and wait for emails – it was the direction I was given from the manager.

            1. Long but would love some advice!*

              Sorry, I live in Canada and we have different rules. I also answered incorrectly, I am in a non-union role so I am exempt. I’m not concerned about getting paid or not, that’s not why I work.

              1. NaoNao*

                I think the reason people are bringing it up is because the pay aspect might give you leverage to push back against the unpaid OT.

                “Hey, boss, I need your advice here. I know Canadian law say [whatever it says] and I don’t want us to run afoul of that. Knowing that, how should I be navigating these weekends? Should we go ahead and put in for my OT backpay? Or shall I dial this back to the agreed upon 40 hours?”

              2. AcademiaNut*

                I don’t think that’s how it works in Canada!

                There are exemptions from overtime for managers and certain professions, but you don’t have to belong to a union to get overtime.

                I’ll put a link to a federal page in the next post.

          2. Observer*

            If you are non-exempt, you MUST be paid for every hour you work. And you MUST be paid at the overtime rate of time and a half if you go over 40 hours. That’s not a choice that your employer gets to make. And, legally YOU cannot make that choice either.

    2. Adaline B.*

      Is there any way to take out the health aspect and talk to your supervisor from the productivity angle? It sounds like you’re getting all your work done M-F, so is there any real *need* for you to be there on the weekend?

      1. Long but would love some advice!*

        They want me to be here because they have the mentality that if one person has to work extra, they all do. The Friday before I started the whole team was here until midnight because one person had some stuff to do. In the instance of this weekend they are behind on a project and wanted me to come in to help them reach their deadline. Literally all of my work is done. The team is HR and I’m the Benefits and Disability person, I’m the only one in this type of role and there is literally no Benefits or Disability work outstanding. Everything is always complete to the point where I’m bored most of the week.

        1. Friday*

          Good lord do none of these people have families? Or anything else they’d rather be doing instead of sitting at the office as a group, feeling the collective weight of their crappy time-management skills?

          Honestly given that this is so strangely out of the norm for your role/industry, it’s a temp position, and your health is at stake, I’d tell them no weekends, flat out. If you can afford to walk away from this job, that is.

          1. Long but would love some advice!*

            Financially yes I can afford to walk away from it. I would rather not because I would like to stick out the one year contract, but that might not be my decision if I keep refusing weekends, lol. :)

            You’re right though, this is not normal and I’m a temp, which I have to remind myself of.

            1. Another Person*

              I get wanting to stick it out because you made a commitment, but nothing about their expectations in this situation sounds at all like anything approaching a normal work environment. Sitting around doing nothing while not getting paid for it on a temp job is not something most healthy people would put up with for even one weekend.

              It might be better to cut your losses and try to get a year under your belt somewhere that is a more normal work environment. If I were you and didn’t need the money I’d quit before they could fire me and find a different temp job. What they are asking is not reasonable.

        2. NaoNao*

          Well the mentality is one thing. I’d see if you can just ignore that. I’ve been in similar spots where there’s this weird, unfocused “mentality” and I was like Okay if they want to fire me over something that’s not in the employee handbook, let ’em.

        3. Observer*

          Well, in that case I would say your best bet it to do what the Childcare coworker is doing and make it clear that you WANT to support the team, but you NEED to be off weekends. Period. Do this as an overall thing, not a week by week, “Oh I can’t do it THIS week.” Because the former sets expectations. The latter sounds like you agree that you SHOULD be doing this, but are making excuses.

      2. Iris Eyes*

        I was thinking this too.

        Something like “All of my work for this week is finished, what projects do you need me to have finished by Monday morning?”

        Is this a season that is particularly busy or does everyone who works there just never have a weekend?

        1. Long but would love some advice!*

          I’ve only been here for 2 months so I don’t have a lot of historical info, but it does seem to be a trend. Right now they are in the middle of some large projects but it seems as though they always are if I look back at the project calendars. It also seems to be fairly standard here to give up evenings and weekends.

          I did say that I can come in early today and Monday, and if there is anything I can complete from home for a couple of hours over the weekend I am willing to do that. I was told it’s not necessary to do that because if I was in the office I would be here as support and that’s what they are looking for.

          1. WellRed*

            Have you clearly stated that you took the job with the understanding that it was X hours with very little overtime (or whatever the original agreement was) and saying, I simply can’t work weekends but I am happy to help out during the week. You are only there a year so I can’t see any benefit to you not to just say no. It sounds like you can walk away if needed.

          2. Friday*

            Is there something in the water? It’s like a cult! How in the world is that sustainable. How long have all these people been working together like this? How much you want to bet that mat leave woman is job searching on her leave?

          3. bonkerballs*

            Do they end up actually having you do anything on the weekends other than show up? I mean, if your projects are all done, I’m curious what “support” actually looks like. And is there anyone higher up in the org that’s not a part of this team that you can talk to about it? Because this seems like the most ridiculous set up. I like the team I work on. I think of myself as a team player and am totally willing to help my coworkers out in a crunch and I know they’re willing to help me out. But I’m not sticking around all night just because one of them isn’t finished what they’re supposed to be doing. That’s not team work, that’s ludicrous.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      “I was told when I was hired here that the job was M-F with little OT. I accepted the job on these terms because this matches my availability. I think that potential employees should be told they are expected to work weekends, so they can fairly decide whether the job is right for them. Telling potential new hires that there is no OT, when there is actually lots of OT is not fair to the new hire or to the company.”

      I cannot tell from your post if the boss is telling you that you have to show up OR if you are feeling pressured by your cohorts. You can speak to the boss directly on this and find out what the boss expects. Don’t let your cohorts define your work hours, that is your boss’ job. If the boss says she does not expect you to be there then you’re good here. Don’t show up. Let them glare at you. They will get over it in time.

    4. Kuododi*

      You mentioned your working a temp job covering for someone on maternity leave. Was this a job you obtained through an agency? If so I would get in touch with them and see if they can intervene. I’m in the US so I am not familiar with how these situations are organized in Canada. Best wishes!!!

    5. Observer*

      Can you talk to HR? If you legitimately don’t have any work, and it’s just the team expecting you to show up “because we’re all in this together” it should not be a big issue to allow you to skip the weekend hours. Point out that you asked about schedule before you took the job, and that this factored into the decision. Without knowing your particulars, it strikes me that you might ask for an ADA type accommodation here – either move you off that team or to allow you to skip weekends. If you’re eligible otherwise, it’s going to be hard for a competent HR to argue that allowing you to not show up is “undue hardship”. ESPECIALLY since they’ve made the accommodation for someone else’s childcare situation.

      Unless you go the ADA route, you don’t even need to get into the specifics of you health issue, I think. Just tell them that you HAVE a health issue, which you can manage if you have the weekends off but losing your weekends messes with your treatment schedule.

  47. Ruth (UK)*

    So there’s an opportunity for me to apply for a secondment at work within my department. It would be for 6 months if I got it, and then I’d return to my current job, and also the secondment position would be more senior than my current one.

    I’ve only been in my job for 6 months though my boss has encouraged me to apply. I feel like I would want to though I’m also nervous (what if I got it and did badly, though I guess it’s only for 6 months…) And I also feel embarrassed about doing badly in the interview/application. It’s one thing to interview at a company, not get hired and then never see them again, but I’d be considered and interviewed in this case by people I know. I wouldn’t mind not getting the job exactly but I’d feel embarrassed if I did poorly in the application (especially if I wasn’t even shortlisted).

    It would be a good opportunity and I do eventually want to move up… I feel like if I don’t apply now I might not get a good opportunity when I went one but also I’m not sure if I feel ready now.

    For some context, secondments are very common where I work and people often use experience gained from a secondment to help them advance. It’s also very common for people to apply to internal vacancies etc or make lateral moves… And also to not necessarily get an internal position they apply for. This all makes me feel less potentially embarrassed about it but I still can’t help feeling unsure about it…

    It probably doesn’t help that I have a recurring nightmare where I apply for a ‘better’ job and end up not getting it and also losing my current one…

    1. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

      I think you should do it – even if you don’t get it, it will at least indicate that you ARE interested in moving up and you are interested in growing your skills and profile.

      One note of caution – if you do get it and return to your old department, make sure you have a good plan in place a few weeks before returning about how you can keep the momentum and growth going. I just came off one and we didn’t do this and now its been a scramble to find something and there isn’t much of anything, so I am back to thumb twiddling (and job searching).

    2. Jemima Bond*

      I’m a UK civil servant too and I say definitely do it. In time when you do want to get promoted it will be very useful as evidence of working at the grade above.

  48. Richie*

    Hi all.
    Have you ever encountered systemic information retention at work? How have you changed this office culture. For context, it’s about very process based jobs where no process is written. We are very dependent of managers’ oral transmission or lack thereof. I work in a country where people are rarely fired, they either die or retire from work. So uprooting and throwing away the toxic people is not an easy option.

    1. Thlayli*

      I have written little guides ans notes for myself on how to do jobs, and then explanded / added to / shared them with others as needed. It was always kind of an organic thing, grew from the need for them.

    2. Admin of Sys*

      I’m assuming that any attempts toward getting officially sanctioned documentation processes in place have failed? I’ve generally found the only way to fix an office culture that’s against such things is for someone to take on onus of doing the documentation themselves.
      So, if you’re willing to take on that role – Write down what you think the processes are. Once you’ve got that, send out a general ‘hey, does this look correct to everybody’ to the appropriate people. Incorporate any corrections and then post it to an shared location, like a wiki. (I find it useful to couch this as ‘reminders’ or ‘help documents’ so folks don’t call you out on trying to declare an official policy) If folks say they’re incorrect, ask for clarification and update the docs. Assuming the rules don’t change on you constantly, there will end up being procedures because people will start getting into the habit of checking the convenient reminder that is kept up to date.

    3. mrs_helm*

      It’s not an easy thing to address, because often it is a combination of insecurity and laziness. If there is opportunity for advancement, you can use that. “We can’t move you up unless we can train someone else to do your job, and we need x documented to do that”. Or, where not doing it has consequences. Like if the company decides to go for ISO qualifications, where process documentation is required and audited.

    4. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

      I did something like what I think you’re asking years ago at a customer service job. All of our manuals were hopelessly out of date and other phone reps seemed to be making up answers as they went along, which was causing a huge number of repeat calls because customer issues weren’t actually being addressed. I started collecting updated documentation from managers etc via email and complied a massive collection of information, all indexed, which I shared around the department as much as I could (some people weren’t interested in having correct information). It didn’t help much while I was there, except for my own satisfaction, but when I left I was told that the customer service manager was taking it to use as the basis for creating an updated manual. So maybe it helped those who worked there later.

  49. The Dread Pirate Buttercup*

    I am in a bit of a panic here.

    After three years of unemployment for health reasons, I took a job at a call center. It turned out to be pleasant work, if not easy, and I was a top performer. Our calls were closely monitored.

    I was told our top priorities were conversion (sale of product per call) and customer service, so if there was any way I could get the customer down to an appealing price, I would do so, including suggesting discounts they might qualify for. It felt like poor customer service to force the customer to bring it up, and I believed a sale “in the hand” and representing our client’s brand as someone who would work to find you the best price served them better than betting that another customer would be willing to pay full price later; it also saved precious phone time on haggling. I also occasionally took advantage of ambiguously-worded or poorly-explained discount. I messed up there and I have no excuse. I worked this way for more than three years. No-one said anything, except to encourage me to be more aggressive.

    Thursday, I got told I was being written up for this. Fair enough. I straightened up and flew right.

    Tuesday, I was told that I was terminated effective immediately based upon the severity of the past issue.

    Now, I realize that in the eyes of some, I don’t ever deserve to work again. I was out of line and I knew it. However, I say again, our calls were closely monitored by the company I worked for, and no-one said EVER anything about this to me, beyond mass e-mails of “don’t use this particular discount code unless the customer brings it up.” It felt like this fairly common practice was encouraged by the company, who got great bonuses based on conversion, and the client realized what was happening and asked for a sacrificial lamb. I am not able to speak to my most recent manager, but I did talk to a former manager and he, in addition to writing me a glowing letter of recommendation and requesting I apply at his organization (I’m unable to work there due to physical restrictions), agreed that I was a great worker working perfectly within the company culture, and rumbled, “You know, it’s a pain in the ass to get wrongful termination in [state], but you may want to think about it in your case.”

    I don’t want wrongful termination. As I said, I knew this was an ethically gray area, shading to black. It was definitely time to leave; the only path forward was management, and not only does each manager have between 20 and 110 directs at any given time (currently forty-one under my most recent manager, who does an amazing job!), and they were asked to support stuff I would not bring myself to be able to do, including egregious violation of labor laws and piss-poor securing of sensitive information including credit card information and personal customer data (we’re talking database-accessing PINs that are literally “1234” and e-mails sent out to the effect that the department@clientname.com customer service e-mail password has been changed from “clientname11” to “clientname12.”) and, I strongly suspect, fraudulent billing on several levels. (Yes, I am aware that I am on the same moral level as the “butcher” here.) I also don’t belong in a client-facing role. I’m a Wednesday Addams and I find acting in the role of Gidget Lawrence for eight hours a day very draining. I just want to get back to accounting and beautiful, cold-equation spreadsheets!

    So, how do I spin this in future interviews? God help me, the company only verifies length of employment and I am so tempted not to mention this termination, but my gut tells me this is a very bad idea and could blow up in a dozen different ways. Plus, as fast and loose as I played with discounts, I do feel icky about lying to a prospective employer.

    What to do, what to say?

    1. A Nickname for AAM*

      Based on what I’ve seen online, call centers are known for being a cesspool of unfairness, where workers have no rights. I don’t think anyone will care.

      1. The Dread Pirate Buttercup*

        I’m kind of banking on the fact that several of the places I am applying to have many employees who have worked at this company and know what tends to go on, actually. Fingers crossed!

    2. Ruth (UK)*

      “Now, I realize that in the eyes of some, I don’t ever deserve to work again.”

      I feel like I possible didn’t fully understand all of your post, but… in response to, “As I said, I knew this was an ethically gray area, shading to black” I actually thought this sounded like more of just a generally grey area, not ‘shading to black’

      I think given the various contexts of the situation, it doesn’t sound like you did anything that bad (or even worth being terminated for). I’m not sure about advice I could give you for future interviews, but if it helps your own peace of mind, I don’t think you’ve done anything tremendously wrong.

      1. The Dread Pirate Buttercup*

        Thank you. I didn’t outright ask that, but it is actually a question I’m asking myself. I kind of feel this way, myself, but I’m acutely aware that “nobody said I was doing anything wrong and you were right there listening the whole time,” and “everybody else does it,” does seem like some pretty irresponsible and unprofessional in light of the fact that I offered these discounts with malice aforethought. Intent is not magic.

        1. Buckeye*

          You recognize that it wasn’t the right thing to do, so I think it’s fair that you can let yourself move on. It sounds like you were working in a dysfunctional and questionable environment, and that spilled over into the way you performed, which is understandable. You definitely deserve to work again, especially in a good environment.

          1. The Dread Pirate Buttercup*

            Well, I didn’t bite anyone… but I do hope to do better in future.

    3. Cheesesteak in Paradise*

      So, the post is a bit wordy but all you did wrong (maybe) was sell the product at a discount to get more customers? And maybe suggest a discount they didn’t know about before? I can see why they maybe weren’t totally pleased but it doesn’t sound like you did anything bad or morally questionable.

      Cell phone contracts and online clothing stores are built around selling at way below “face value.”

      Anyhow, it’s not my area of expertise so I don’t have answers to all your questions but I think you are being too hard on yourself and it’s definitely not a moral failing.

      Did you steal? Embezzle? No! You just made less profit per customer than they would prefer. So what? Find a better job and forget those a$$hats. Keep the rec from your good manager.

    4. Autumnheart*

      Whoa whoa whoa whoa. You gave customers discounts without being prompted first, and prioritized retaining the customer relationship over a few dollars of additional immediate profit. This is not an ethically grey area much less “shading to black”. Nor are you anywhere in the same galaxy as a company or a manager that violates labor laws and doesn’t secure sensitive customer information. Not. At. All. If somebody told you that, they’re utterly full of it.

      You can simply say, “There was no room for further advancement within the company.”

      And yes, if they were monitoring your calls, and you had worked there for 3 years, it’s not like they didn’t have copious opportunities to mention it if they had a problem with your process. For all you know, they cooked up a reason to fire you so they wouldn’t have to give you a raise or something. A company that engages in questionable business practices is not going to draw the line at above-board termination.

      Do NOT internalize this experience as a judgment about your professional ethics. Hopefully being forced to leave will turn out to be a blessing in disguise. It sounds like a terribly dysfunctional workplace.

      1. SophieChotek*

        Yes I agree here. (Although I’ve never worked in a call center). But I often feel like when I have called businesses like call centers (phone service, internet) or something similar where there are competitors, the reps are all but falling over themselves to offer special “limited” deals or offers, so I won’t go to another company.

        Honestly to me it sounds like you did what the company wanted in terms of numbers/customer retention. Maybe some big-wig listened to one of the calls and got upset, so instead of saying “everyone does this”, like sacrificed to “make a point” or show that your manager/some upper manager was “doing something.”

        I agree – if you’ve worked there 3 years, they really have no right to let this go for three years and then suddenly it becomes an issue.

      2. RV*

        If anything, you did the right thing ethically, if discounts are available why shouldn’t customers be made aware of them?

    5. Bea*

      It’s gutting me that you are beating yourself up right now over this.

      They just gaslighted you here and you are not doing anything truly wrong if you weren’t coached waaaaaaaaaay earlier that they don’t want you giving discounts without any prompting. So what happened was you were a great rep, you were the one that all of us dream of getting when we call for assistance, you were in it for the customers, which is what customer service is all about for companies that aren’t a shameful heaping pile of pooh.

      You deserve to work. You deserve to be treated with respect and recongized for your dedication to retention. You were given company approved discounts, they just had them under some thick ass blanketed rules they didn’t even tell you about it seems!

      Unless you were falsifying records and being all “Customer POed and threatening to leave, gave XYZ discount to appease them” when in reality you were just tacking it on for good service and they were just calling to pay their bill, they are just a pack of jackals who don’t deserve a good employee if anything.

      Go into it saying that you had a conflicting management style, you are customer service oriented and they were not allowing you to give the level of service you are accustomed to giving.

      Call Centers are hell holes and the fact you actually enjoyed it and excelled until they decided to go all over the top on you…yeah F-THEM.

    6. 653-CXK*

      If you tell a prospective employer what happened and explained what you learned from that experience, they appreciate that honesty. You may not get the ideal job right away, but you’ve already shown a prospective employer you’re willing to correct, own up to, and learn from mistakes.

      In your case, your now ex-employer wrote a loophole so big that they could drive a bus and a herd of camel through (led by Wednesday Addams?) It’s up to them to correct it so it is unambiguous, but they’re way too obsessed with metrics and profits that it took them a longer time to discover what you did (for the benefit of the customer and at the cost of a tiny fraction of profit), and likely they were embarrassed by it.

  50. Bones*

    Does anyone know how long it takes to process/analyze a Caliper Assessment? I took one almost two weeks ago for a job I’m really interested in and haven’t heard anything yet…. starting to lose hope :/

  51. Tasslehoff Burrfoot*

    Happy Friday everyone!
    I recently decided to come off a pretty powerful drug and tapered with my dr.’s approval, but the taper was too fast and since my last pill I’ve been dealing with some very bad withdrawals which are causing me severe anxiety, agitation and lack of sleep. This is seriously impacting my work and I don’t feel like I can take the time off to deal with this. Has anyone else experienced something like this at work and how did you get through it?

    2. Laura*

      “Must be allergies” covers a lot of symptoms and going to the bathroom for some quiet time.

    3. Short & Dumpy*

      I was tapered too quickly off a depression drug we now know is insanely addictive and it damn near killed me (or rather, I nearly killed myself). As soon as I realized what was happening, I called my doctor and drove to the pharmacy to get more of the pills. Turned out even the lowest dose made wasn’t enough taper before zero so my doctor had me open the pills and count grains. Is that doable for you?

      Otherwise, I would take leave. You’re not being productive at work as is, so better IMO to just be home sick…because you ARE sick, it’s just not a virus causing it.

      1. nonegiven*

        I had a pill I knew I needed to taper off of. I thought one pill, how do I taper off one pill? Stop taking the one pill gave me hot flashes so I tried a full pill every other day and half a pill on the day between. Then step down to half a pill every day, then half a pill every other day. Then I was able to stop. One step each week. If that had been too fast I could have gone to half a pill twice a week with a full pill on the other days, then taper from that.

    4. zora*

      Why can’t you take time off? I would reframe this in your mind that you are actually sick and need a few days off to get back to the place where you are sleeping. Sleep is so important. You will probably do much better work in the long run if you take a few days off now, than if you try to push through and completely collapse.

    5. Louise*

      Not due to any changes in medication, but I’m in a very similar place with a general mental health flare up. No real advice other than to be kind to yourself, but endless sympathy.

    6. N Twello*

      We all go through nonproductive periods, whether due to health or family problems, moving house, grief, stress, … on and on.

      If you can’t take time off, then you should probably just fake it at work until you’re past this period. Try to look busy; avoid chitchat or letting people see you on the phone or surfing the web. Try to look like you’re achieving some wins. Sure it’s a cheat, but it’s not like you’re a slacker. Plus, I find sometimes that putting my head down and working hard is the best way to get through a bad time.

    7. Kat in VA*

      Depending on the drug, keeping warm, staying as active as you can, and staying hydrated can help. I’m speaking from a pain medication standpoint. Withdrawals – especially if too fast – can be super severe. Along with the anxiety and agitation come the physical symptoms, feeling like the flu, the sniffles, and that “can’t sit still” feeling. It will pass, I promise. I have never dealt with it at work, but even at home was excruciating. You have all my sympathy (*extends to non-pain-medication withdrawal). Is it possible to get on a lower dose and taper more slowly with your doctor’s help?

    8. KAZ2Y5*

      Call your Dr. You may need to start again and taper more slowly, depending on what the medication is. A friend of mine had to deal with a medication for depression and her taper period ended up being twice as long as what is recommended. Good luck!

    9. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

      I had this problem when coming off an antidepressant. Turns out that for me the standard tapering was too much too soon, so I went back to the lowest regular dose for a few days and started the tapering process over again. I bought a pill cutter and was literally licking tiny bits of pill dust off my finger in the last few days. I’d go back to your doctor and get advice on a more gradual tapering off, and in the meantime a generic “I haven’t been sleeping well/feeling unwell” is probably enough detail at work, and will hopefully excuse you taking a longer bathroom break or a little walk outside.

  52. Kix*

    I could use some advice. I’m a first line supervisor of a small program within a larger program and I directly supervise two people (three if you count the admin I’m going to hire soon). I’m new to this position, but not to the department. I used to work across the hall in another program.

    Both of my directs are great employees. One of them has a tendency to be a bit too “free range” for my liking in terms of coming and going as she pleases under the guise of one family crisis after another. She says, “I’ll make up the time,” and yet it’s starting to look to me like this isn’t happening.

    Our program manager is not a fan of micromanaging, and I don’t want to micromanage; where I could use some guidance is in how to dial back the “free range” a bit without being a major asshat about it. I’m going to start scheduling 1:1 meetings with my team, which I think is a good start. Any other suggestions? Thanks!

    2. Friday*

      Instead of making up the time or talking about time in general, try focusing on her work. Does she have things you expect her to do daily? Weekly? Is she aware of those things? You can hold her to performance failures as needed, and make sure she knows you expect her to manage her time wisely. For example if she has a weekly task that has to be completed by Friday and on Friday she has a flat tire and is in late or what have you and doesn’t make the deadline, your conversation with her doesn’t have to be about how flat tires are unavoidable – it’s that she had all week to do a task and only had a flat one of the five days.

    3. Admin of Sys*

      Is your concern that her work isn’t getting done or that she’s not putting in enough hours? If it’s the former, then getting regular progress reports may help with keeping her on task.
      If it’s more that she’s not around enough because she’s off dealing with things, then I think it’d be appropriate to say that you want / need her to commit to being in the office during the core hours, except for agreed upon leave or actual emergencies. And then, if the emergencies keep cropping up, start getting specifics in regards to the ‘making it up later’ – i.e. if she has to duck out at 2p on Monday for something, fine, but ask for when she plans to make up the 3 hours in the next 2 weeks.

      1. WellRed*

        Also, I wonder if you need to be clearer what constitutes an emergency. Some people treat every little thing like a crisis that only they can handle. Although I am not sure how you’d go about that.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      Go back to the employee hand book. How is PTO handled/tracked?
      Start by doing the SOPs the company has in place.

      Be prepared that her answer might be that now is not a good time for her to be working full time. Sometimes life stuff gets in the way.
      Your other subordinate is probably steaming over this. So you do have to do something here because of your other subordinate. This is hugely unfair to her. I have used the concept of fairness to the people who remain at work as a tool to motivate me to follow up on the chronic absences.

    5. LCL*

      Asking someone to be at work, working, on the hours you all have agreed to, is not micromanaging. You are already inadvertently being a not nice person about it-to the other direct who is basically doing their job. Not So New Reader has got it.

      And just a warning-sometimes people have family crises they have to deal with right now. With other people it is one crisis after another, it will never end.

  53. Bill*

    My boss is terrible. I won’t go into the details about why, but to summarize, he’s verbally abusive, criticizes people in public, and provides incorrect information to clients then tries to blame it on his staff. My grand boss (with whom I have a very close relationship) knows this as I have told him and he sees it sometimes (although boss is very good at not doing this in front of the higher ups). So anyway, out of the blue, grand boss sends a questionnaire about boss to his direct reports with questions regarding his performance as a manager, with questions about his professional support of us and management style. One of the questions is “do you feel like [boss] cares about you personally?” He asked us to return our answers next week. I responded right away with the Star Wars “it’s a trap” meme, but he seriously wants us to fill this out. Two questions : 1. This actually feels like a trap. I would love for boss to face consequences, although at this point I’m so traumatized that I think the only improvement would be for him to not manage anyone ever again. How should I respond? I don’t actually believe that anything will happen, so I feel like the end result will just be a written record of me complaining, which will just reflect poorly on me, and 2. The question about whether he cares about me personally? My first reaction is to respond that grand boss should ask him. It feels incredibly inappropriate to be asked in a professional setting about how someone feels about me. So weird. Should I answer this?

    1. You don't know me*

      This absolutely sounds like a trap and I would not put anything in writing. We once had an “anonymous” survey at OldJob. They got printed out and handed to the manager who very quickly was able to figure out who wrote what.

      1. Bill*

        Yes, that is definitely one of the things I’m worried about. On the other hand, if I don’t do it and my coworkers do, that puts them in an awkward position. I’m wondering if we should get together and present a united front one way or the other.

        1. The Dread Pirate Buttercup*

          That’s just what I was about to say. Get together and craft something that can be easily copied and pasted, with nothing that points to any specific employee, that addresses as many areas of concern as possible, in no particular identifiable style. I mean, you’ll all be in trouble if that was the point of the exercise, but if that is the case, there’s not much to be done anyway.

        2. Red5*

          That might be a way to do this. If you all feel similarly, fill out one survey as a group if you agree on the answers, and present it as a united front.

    2. legalchef*

      At my old job we had to do allegedly anonymous, mandatory upward reviews of our supervisor, who was… not good. I went to our boss (2 levels up from me) on behalf of the team, as the one with most seniority, and told her that everyone was worried about writing a review about our supervisor, because we were worried that he would retaliate (by making our work lives even more miserable, not by specifically doing anything illegal). Upshot was… we still had to do them. Her solution was that we should just fill out the scales (1-10) for the categories and not put comments, so he couldn’t connect the comments to a person. And then, after all that, nothing changed, except that our supervisor was most definitely mad at us.

      So, since your grand boss has already been told about things, and witnessed some himself, but hasn’t done anything, I would be super reluctant to fill it out. At most, I might be willing to have a more frank conversation about it, but wouldn’t want to put anything in writing.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      “I don’t care if he cares for me personally. I do think it’s important that bosses realize they are dealing with fellow human beings. Things like basic courtesy, fair-play and even-handedness are necessary qualities for any boss.”

      My take is that if he has to do a survey, then he has lost control. There is that old saying, “If you feel you have to ask the questions that in itself can be the answer.”

    4. Neosmom*

      This grand boss needs to have private conversations with the people who received the questionnaire. A survey is never necessary in a company with a healthy culture.

    5. The New Wanderer*

      It sounds like a badly written survey, which also doesn’t help the situation. It is irrelevant whether the boss does (or more accurately, you perceive him to) care about the employees on a personal level. Maybe that was a one off and the rest of the questions were reasonable, but it should never have been included.

      I agree with the advice to band together with the most common negative feedback you each would provide so that everyone gives the same response. If the grand-boss is doing this to create a paper trail, it’s clear cut and doesn’t allow any one criticism to be perceived as personal-level issues. If it’s just an exercise in “look we’re trying” and nothing will happen, no individual can be singled out if everyone gave the same response.

  54. DaniCalifornia*

    Basically it comes down to my feelings ebb and flow about trying to find a new position. Sometimes I’m bored, sometimes work feels toxic or too stressed. Other times I feel awesome about it. But I’ve been too comfortable about a job before and lost opportunities to learn and grow. But since I’m planning on changing careers in a few years after school, I know I could keep working here just fine. Just looking for some feedback/advice.

    Current job:
    -PRO: Pays extremely well (60K), it’s harder to find my level of pay in my area unless you are an EA with 10+ years of experience. Raises are incredible. This has been EXTREMELY helpful to help pay for my school as I only take classes when I afford it.
    -PRO: 3 weeks PTO. This is awesome because we can’t take PTO during tax seasons so it feels like you get more vacation during the other 7 months.
    -PRO: Would be able to stay here until I graduate. I know 100% that if I kept my current pace here they would not fire me barring something extreme (me not showing up/dying/owner giving up practice, etc)
    -CON: I am bored. I haven’t learned or been taught anything by anyone in over 3 years unless I have taught myself. But I’m at a point where I’ve reached a blockade and can’t go further in accounting unless someone could teach me. Also, owner has said he doesn’t want me doing/helping my supervisor with payroll “yet” despite her pushing him to let me help her/learn new things
    -CON: Tax season and mini tax season are stressful and gets harder every year
    -CON: Don’t have authority to implement change or new technology so we end up being reactive instead of proactive. Lots of ideas get shut down because owner doesn’t like change
    -CON: Interpersonal issues do not get discussed or solved. For now it’s smoothed out. But some days it’s irritating.

    Finding a new job:
    -PRO: Potential for learning new things, having more authority, “stepping up” into management
    -PRO: No more tax season!!!
    -NEUTRAL: More/less interpersonal issues? No chance of really knowing unless you start at a new job.
    -CON: Finding similar pay is going to be hard. A pay cut would be fine financially, but I also wanted to be able to leverage where I’ve gotten to in my career when I switch field.
    -CON: Interviews I’ve had are aware I’m in school and all the jobs I apply for are not in design they are in accounting admin so when they ask where I’ll be in a few years my internal answer is “Hopefully not in admin” but my answer to potential jobs is “????” I could lie but my dream is not to be in admin anymore.
    -CON: Because I’ve only learned about 85% of the payroll process I can’t confidently put on my resume that I know how to process payroll when a company needs it. And I don’t know how to explain it on a resume. I can in person. “I’m looking for growth in this area and am confident that once taught I would succeed at it.” I know it’s not hard, but I can’t list it on my resume 100%. It feels limiting.

    1. ginkgo*

      My immediate thought is that it’s hard to compare the pros and cons of your current job vs a generic potential new job. Since you’re already employed, I think you can keep searching casually and make the decision once another employer has shown interest, which will be much easier to compare!

      For the payroll/resume question, can you just put whatever duties you currently perform and then explain in person as you have here?

      1. DaniCalifornia*

        “it’s hard to compare the pros and cons of your current job vs a generic potential new job.” YUP! This is another thing I had a hard time comparing myself.

        I am casually searching and being picky as I don’t want to leave for just any other job. I just hate the days at current job where I feel ready to walk out the door, and then there are some days where I think ‘So glad I have this job.’ I can’t figure out which one is winning.

        That is a good idea. I can put the reporting part which I do and then hopefully I can explain how I’m excited to learn the complete process if given the chance.
        Thank you!

        1. Not So NewReader*

          All the bad jobs I have had involved a thought process like you show here. There’s lots of overthinking going on.

          You say you can stay at it. Okay, so look at your life goals and see how good a fit this job is for the short term Could you be doing something else and moving in a different direction? Do you have enough balls in the air right now in your life and does it make sense not to take on any more new things such as a new job?

          Know the reason WHY you are staying put. Be able to articulate that reason. Be able to explain to BFF or SO what you are choosing and why you have chosen it. All you need is one strong reason.
          If you think you want to move on, then start reading ads and find out what is available within your reach. Sometimes indecision stems from lack of information. Gather information about available jobs.

          My thought is if some days you can hate the job and want to walk out the door and have other days where you are glad to have a job then you have yourself on an emotional rollercoaster. If we can go high that means we will go low later, if we go low that means we can deliberately seek highs later because the lows suck so much. Any job that causes this rollercoaster is probably not a good place to be. The fact that the lows are so low, probably means the lows are winning.

          1. DaniCalifornia*

            Wow…thank you. This was very helpful! I had been feeling like I was overthinking a lot of things. But reading this makes sense and I will think on it all. I’ve told my husband that, if needed, I know this is a means to an end. I will finish school and change careers. I think I’m burnt out on that take on life as he is finishing his masters in engineering while working FT so we have been in that mode for over a year as it’s miserable. Perhaps I am seeking the highs out.

            1. Not So NewReader*

              Oh, so you are human. ;) You can build small kicks into your week and build some highs into your life, so you don’t need the highs from work. Nothing wrong with wanting cool things to happen in your life.
              I so relate to what you are saying, I felt like I was on a hamster wheel. It was more about my ability to power through the work week than anything else.
              One thing I saw in my mess was that if we work hard, crappy life events happen and all we have is working hard (at a thankless job) plus these crappy life events. Nice life events do not fall down from the sky. We have to create them. And likewise we have to create those little niceties through out our week/month.

              That restlessness that you were talking about initially *can* with *some* people point to a larger discontent with how life is going at the moment. Goals are super important. Interestingly, goals can even be a part of good mental health. Your answer may be as simple as sitting with a fresh calendar and plotting out the next few years of your life so you see your goals on paper.

    2. Bea*

      RE: Payroll….if you know 85%, then you should know enough. Every company does payroll their own way, so someone is going to have to teach you the grind or you’d have to piece it together anyways. I was “taught” payroll by some old procedure documents left behind.

  55. Princess Daisy*

    This could be a “far in the future” problem, but it could also be a near problem.

    I just turned 25, and my husband and I decided that we’re going to start trying for a baby this month (obviously not a decision that was made lightly. However, I have a coworker (a supervisor here, but not my direct supervisor…though she acts like she is), who CONSTANTLY tells me how I should wait to have children and how it would be ridiculous for anyone to try for children before the age of 30 (for context, I casually mentioned wanting kids one time a couple of years ago with no additional information, but she still brings it up regularly). She is a 54 year old single woman who adopted a set of 5-year old twins when they were babies (she is technically their great aunt, the father of the baby is in prison). So, obviously a tough situation. But, I feel like she uses her personal experience with her twins to sway me into not having kids. Examples:

    “Oh Daisy, it’s a good thing you don’t have kids yet, my girls are both sick at school and now I’m going to have to take vacation now to go pick them up and take them home.”

    “I tell ya what, Daisy. I can’t imagine having kids at your age. I struggle at MY age, and I’m 30 years older than you. You should be glad you don’t have any.”

    “Daisy, you’re such a great worker. I sure hope you always want to work full time. Don’t you think you’d hate staying home all day with kids?”

    She even once sent me an article on why children with older parents end up being more successful. So, I wouldn’t put it past her when I actually AM pregnant, to make comments on how I’m so young, and how children are so much more of a commitment than people realize (she’ll say it in a chipper way, as if it makes her words less offensive). It’s beyond irritating that I’m already dreading telling her I’m pregnant, even though it could be many months away.

    1. You don't know me*

      I think you need to shut this down and right away. Anytime she brings up kids in reference to you, come back with “I prefer not discuss my child bearing plans at work.” And when you do get pregnant, “I prefer not discuss my pregnancy work.” The only time it even needs to be remotely touched on is if she needs to cover your workflow for doctor appointments or your maternity leave.

      Separately, how incredibility insensitive of her to comment about such a personal choice in the first place. What if the person she was speaking to desperately wanted a baby but was unable to conceive? Imagine having to deal with such a personal tragedy while this loudmouth goes on and on about how it’s a good thing you don’t have kids yet.

      1. Princess Daisy*

        “Separately, how incredibility insensitive of her to comment about such a personal choice in the first place. What if the person she was speaking to desperately wanted a baby but was unable to conceive?”

        I totally agree. I think about that every time she makes a comment in that regard. I’ve known people who have struggled with infertility, and would be crushed to hear that sort of comment.

        1. Detective Amy Santiago*

          I agree 1000% with the comment above. Shut it down now. You’ve been far too patient this long. Be very blunt and tell her that you prefer not to discuss your reproductive choices at work.

      2. Observer*

        I doubt she’d think she was being insensitive. I’m betting she’d respond by claiming that she’s showing them all of the BENEFITS of infertility. Yeah, I know people who’ve been at the receiving end of that kind of comment. It’s mind boggling.

        So, you can feel good about shutting this down. Not only will you protect yourself, but hopefully you will be helping every other person around for whom the subject is sensitive. Keep in mind that you might never know who has issues themselves or in their family, so that’s not a stretch.

    2. Laura*

      How annoying. This is SO CLEARLY her issue and not yours. I’d just keep it bland when she says anything offensive, “different things work for different people”, “I’m sure we’ll be fine”, “we’re very excited about the baby.”

      Actually, I’d just stick with the last one. Anytime she says something offensive after you announce just say, “Thank you, we are very excited about the baby.” She’ll look like a jerk, and unless she’s totally a pain, she’ll cut it out.

      1. Princess Daisy*

        Thank you! I feel like many times she doesn’t realize how rudely she comes across, but hopefully she’ll eventually shut down if I’m firm.

    3. Queen of Cans & Jars*

      I think this is a case where I would never EVER bring up my pregnancy around her, and if she tries to bring it up, just politely but firmly shut her down. “I’m not really interested in talking about my pregnancy right now, thanks!” delivered brightly, with a smile, ad nauseum. Actually, I’d probably start right now, maybe revising it to “Hmm, that’s interesting. Anyway, about that [insert any other topic here: weather, work, sports, WHATEVER].” Or just find some way to be really busy whenever she comes by. If you essentially refuse to engage, I’m not sure where she can go with this.

      1. Princess Daisy*

        Thank you, I think that’s a good script. Unfortunately, she will still engage even when I attempt to look extra busy when she walks by (by coworker and I joke about this…she has no sense of interpreting body language!) I’ll try my best to firmly shut it down and change the subject when she does engage, though!

    4. BadWolf*

      It sounds like she has some regrets on her decisions and is unpleasantly dumping them all over you.

      How do you respond now? Do you discuss? Or just give an “Okay” and change the subject?

      If/when the pregnancy comes and she keeps doing this, I might stick with something bland but positive, “We’re very happy the timing. Oh look at the weather.”

      1. ginkgo*

        It sounds like she has some regrets on her decisions and is unpleasantly dumping them all over you. THIS. What a jerk.

      2. Princess Daisy*

        I always just give an “oh” and nothing more. I never responded to the article she sent (which was about a year ago). Then, she came to my desk and said “hey, did you get that article I sent?” I said “yep”, and moved on. I agree that she has some regrets on her decision, which is why she says the things she does to me (which definitely doesn’t make it okay, still). Thanks for your advice!

    5. WellRed*

      Tell yourself you’re young but not THAT young, you are a grown woman and married. Honestly, it was only a generation ago that had babies a little younger than is current. Also, while she has stepped up and done a wonderful thing, I find it hard to believe there won’t be issues related to her age when it comes to parenting, if not now, then down the road (please don’t flame me anyone for ageism, I am nearing 50 myself).
      Your experience parenting will be just as valid as hers, just different.

      1. Princess Daisy*

        “I find it hard to believe there won’t be issues related to her age when it comes to parenting, if not now, then down the road”

        I agree with this. Of course, there are good parents old and young, but when she says things like, “I struggle and I’m 30 years older than you” it feels like she’s being discriminatory towards MY age, and indicating that young people can’t be good parents.

        1. Frankie*

          Where I grew up, heck, 25 is middle-aged for having a first kid.

          Is there any chance she doesn’t realize she’s being quite so overbearing? Some people really see this as chatter that is appropriate for work, and appropriate for older people to school younger people in. It becomes this transcendent community thing and everyone brings their own (annoying) angle to it.

          Before I got pregnant my much older, child-free coworker would bring up “no kids” ALLLLL the time, and I would feel a bit awkward as my partner and I spent a good length of time deliberating whether we wanted kids, so I felt like any participation in the conversation was taking some kind of stance and/or weirdly committing to get or not get pregnant eventually. I particularly never wanted to say we planned for it one day. It was frustrating because when I did get pregnant she was like, “I THOUGHT you were because of something you said the other day,” in the standard conversation where I’d just be kinda vague and noncommittal about it. She also said she’d suspected another coworker was pregnant (who has seemed pretty set that she’s not going to have them)…ugh, it just felt like we were being watched.

          That said, this coworker is quite a kind lady and I guarantee doesn’t realize how this has all come off. People can really overstep without realizing it…not excusing it, but maybe there’s still some room for something like, “I’m pregnant and we’re really excited! Thanks for all of your advice, and I hear you, but this is what works for us.”

          You know her best, so maybe she’s really far beyond this convo, but want to suggest it as she may really not “get it.” Otherwise just shutting her down with a one-note answer is probably the way to go.

          But…general commiseration over weirdos who feel some sense of ownership or stake in the reproductive decisions of women of childbearing age. People (acquaintances, strangers) will hold you to account for their expectations no matter which path you choose.

          Also…now that I’m pregnant my coworker has stopped with the “no kids” quite so much. I think part of her interest was in some kind of commiseration alliance, and I’m obviously not giving her that anymore!

          1. Frankie*

            ETA: by “this coworker” who is quite a kind lady, I mean my coworker, not yours. I have no idea whether yours is!

        2. Not So NewReader*

          I am slightly older than her. I think that at this age I would not want to be chasing kids around. This comment has everything to do with her and nothing to do with you.

          What I see here is a person who regrets bringing kids into her life and I really feel sorry for those kids. I wonder what is happening at home. I think what she is saying is that SHE can’t be a good parent. That’s my read.

          Turn the tables. Say, “Gee, I am sorry to hear that things are rough. Is there a support group or a counselor you can talk with to get some extra support?”
          OR. “I am sorry to hear this is difficult on you. What types of support have you looked into so far?”
          Turn the tables take the focus off of you and back onto her. She is projecting her concerns on to you, don’t let her do that.

          In general, you can say, “You know everyone’s experience is different. But thank you for your concern for me. Whatever I decide, I will manage.”

          She sounds like one UNhappy person to me.

    6. DaniCalifornia*

      Sounds like you need to shut it down when it happens. For now her comments are annoying but just that, she’s talking about her own situation not yours.

      But when she does bring up yours start polite and get more direct if she keeps doing it:
      “Thanks for your concern, but we are excited about baby!”
      “Let’s not discuss my pregnancy at work. Do you have the TPS report we need for tomorrow’s meeting?”
      “I don’t feel comfortable discussing my pregnancy/working mom status.”
      “Please do not comment on my pregnancy/working mom status.”
      “I’ve asked you before to not comment on my pregnancy/working mom status as it’s not up for discussion. What’s up with that?”

      1. Princess Daisy*

        All of your scripts are great, thank you! I have such a hard time standing my ground and pushing back (even when it’s totally valid), but I think this is a serious enough issue that I need to just do it!

        1. DaniCalifornia*

          I give credit to Alison because she has the best responses I’ve ever seen! I have learned so much from this blog!
          Confrontation sucks, but even if she’s unreasonable you’ll know you stood your ground and are not being the rude one. She is. Good luck with her! And everything else!

    7. Ann Perkins*

      She sounds insecure honestly, but I agree with nipping it in the bud. “Jane, our family plans are not something I want to discuss at work. I’ll let you know if I need any advice. How’s that X project going?”

    8. CurrentlyLooking*

      I had my first two in my mid-twenties and they are both very successful and awesome human beings! So, your co-worker is completely wrong.

    9. NaoNao*

      Taking a different tack here than most, it seems like this isn’t about you and your baby rearing plans per se, it’s about an unmet need of Daisy’s. She sounds like my mom. One time I flew out to visit her and we had dinner around 5.30. Afterwards I suggest we go thrifting, one of our shared favorite activities. She went into this weird spiral about how tired from the work week she was and how it was late and I was like “okay…so…no thrifting then?” And she sheepishly admitted she really just wanted someone to recognize and respect her hard work during her work week.

      My guess and it’s only a guess, is that Daisy feels under-praised and under-valued for her “hard work” here too.

      Maybe turn it around:

      Daisy: Oh my gosh I’ll tell ya these old bones can’t chase my twins around any more! Good thing you’re waiting!
      You: “Oh, you’re doing great. It seems hard, but I’m sure they make it worth it.”

      Daisy: You’re not ACTUALLY pregnant at your age are you??!!?
      You: I did some thinking and while your example of an older mom is just so fabulous, I decided I needed my youthful energy to keep up with the little tyke. Anyway, donuts with Peeps in them in the breakroom, didja hear?

  56. Constantly sleepy*

    Here’s something short and sweet: fo you take the first job offered after a long job hunt or hold out for setting potentially better (both in terms of the work and pay?)

        1. Constantly Sleepy*

          So I’m interviewing for a few positions now. One is more of a customer-facing technical advisor – it’s within my skillset but I’m not comfortable with the client-/customer-facing aspect of it (although I am told that I am good at it). The company is new (about 5 years) but they have a good client base with plans for expansion. They told me about self-motivated professional learning opportunities (that sound great!) and also the ability to get involved in other departments (if I wanted to). There’s a lot of flexibility here and the work itself is interesting – they said they’ll be getting back to me within a week.

          Another place I’m interviewing for is exactly what I have been doing and want to do professionally. The subject of the work is in entertainment (exactly where I want to be) but not a lot of potential for lateral/upward growth as the position above. Salary is a bit more (5-10k) but it would take me a bit more commuting time to get there. I’m interviewing (in person!) today so I can find out a bit more about the job then.

          Last thing that isn’t a job but a potential fellowship has a stipend in the range that I would like, the potential to really connect with the community that I got my degrees in, but it’s only for one year. There is a lot of potential (potential) to make connections but the organization in charge of the fellowship would be one of the last ones to get back to me. By the time they’ve reached a decision here, I could be starting a job at any of the other two places.

          Of course, nothing is guaranteed without a contract……. @_@

    3. KMB213*

      I took the first job offered to me after a pretty short job hunt (4 months) and I regret it.

      I’d only had a few interviews, and this was the only one where I’d gotten to the final stages. However, I lived with my parents at the time (after moving back to where I’d grown up, which is why I was out of work in the first place) and had a decent amount of money saved up. If I had continued living with them, I probably could have easily gone another 6 months without working, maybe even longer. (They refused to take money for rent or utilities, so I had very low living expenses.) Taking all of that (and some yellow flags about the job) into consideration, I should have held out for something that was a better fit.

      However, as others have said, it’s so circumstantial. If I found myself out of work now, I would probably take the first decent job I could find – I am lucky to have a bit in savings and a partner and parents who could help me out with bills in an emergency, but I have a mortgage and a lot more expenses than I did four years ago when I took the job that I now regret taking.

    4. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I took the first job I was offered after a 7 month job hunt because my unemployment was running out. It was a pay cut, but it was 7 minutes from home and work I’d done before. I started looking for a new opportunity about a year and a half in because I knew it wasn’t a good long term fit. Luckily, my previous stints were 5.5 years, 3 years, and 5.5 years so I knew it wouldn’t make me look like a job hopper.

    5. Anonymosity*

      Depends on your situation. I’ve been looking for 18 months (I could have a toddler by now!) and right now, I’d take something but keep looking if it were shitty. When I got laid off in 2012, unemployment was still on tiers and I was able to get it for an entire year. I held out and found a great job right before it cut off. This time, it ended five months after I got fired. I used up all my escape money. So yeah, I’d take something.

      If you can afford to keep looking, do so. Or maybe take something part-time to ease the strain.

    6. Cedrus Libani*

      TBH, both times I’ve gotten a job offer while unemployed, I took it. The first time, I was not excited about the job at all, but I was about to run out of savings and was not in a position to refuse an honest paycheck. The second time, I wasn’t desperate, but I liked the job well enough.

      But this is a super personal decision. Do you think you can do substantially better? Given your personal situation, can you afford to wait until that better job comes around?

      Keep in mind, you’re not married to the job for life. You could spend two weeks there, decide it’s awful, and quit. You could spend two years there, improve your skills, and move on to something better. And you’ll be getting paid, which is a plus.

    7. bonkerballs*

      I took the first job offered to me. Not just offered, but the first job I applied for. Like I had the worst day at work, decided I couldn’t take my boss anymore, went home in a rage, and had a new job within a week. Sometimes I really regret it, because I’m not nearly as comfortable in my actual job here than I was there. At my last job, I was a very high performer and here I struggle a good bit. Also, I truly loved my last organization and all my coworkers and I miss the work that we did and the clients we served. But other times, when I think about the pay increase (which I desperately needed) and the fact that I never have to work for that boss again, I think those are good trade offs.

      I do wish I had taken more time to find something. Rage quitting like that made sense at the time, but if I had allowed myself to calm down and taken several weeks/months to really find something I knew I would be great at, that probably would have been smarter.

  57. somebody else*

    I just need to put this out into the universe…… my cube mate SLURPS their coffee. SLURP SLURP every morning and sometimes in the afternoon.

      1. The Dread Pirate Buttercup*

        You could say, “Hey, are you doing something different with your coffee mug lid? You’ve been audibly slurping lately,” in a very neutral tone as if something has changed and you’re just trying to help your cube-mate out. I would want to know, in as face-saving a way as possible, if I were doing that and someone could tell me in a way that didn’t sound like I was being judged.

    2. Can't Sit Still*

      I see we share a cube mate. It will be quiet and then all of a sudden, SLURP SLURP SLURP. SLUURRRRRRRRRRRP.

    3. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

      I had a boss would would, without fail, slurp soup and eat a roll loudly EVERY DAY at lunch. It was gross and annoying and we were all pretty sure he did it on purpose because he would do it louder if someone told him to stop. No, he is not a child, he is an almost 50-yr old man.

      1. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

        Forgot to add that this was open plan office with pretty tight seating – you couldn’t get away from it.

        We were just glad most days a Fruit Cup wasn’t also involved whereby he would also smack lips and then lick fingers.

    4. Bill*

      Gah! My coworker is a super loud chewer, like his mouth is closed but I can hear the saliva moving around in his mouth. It drives me insane. Some days I just ask him how in the world he is able to make that much noise. It’s almost impressive.

    5. Khlovia*

      Conditioning? Every time they slurp, you drop a book? Cough? Crack your knuckles? (Ugh, don’t crack your knuckles.)

      I assume you have already done your minimum due diligence, i.e., used your words: “Hey, could you not slurp your coffee quite so much or so loudly? If you need to cool it, either blow on it or just let it sit a couple minutes.” And I assume you were able to deal with the pushback: “Sure, if you’ll stop jiggling your knee / whistling tunelessly / cracking your knuckles.”

  58. FirstTimeCaller*

    Recently, my husband was told that he was going to be getting an intern to help him with his IT duties. Great! He’s been wanting an intern for a while. When he got the guy’s resume, though, Intern is about a year shy of the experience Husband would want. Husband talked to Boss and asked if they could hire someone with a little more of specific knowledge under their belt, only to be told no, that he must hire this intern.

    Because Intern’s mom has cancer. And apparently Intern needs the job.

    Fine. Except that it’s been two weeks and Intern doesn’t return Husband’s emails, calls, or texts, except periodically at 2AM. Husband reports to Boss that this isn’t working and Boss calls Intern’s mom, in order to get him in line. Mom says OK, Intern will be in touch, only for nothing to happen and the cycle to start back up again. Husband is going nuts, but can’t can the Intern (who hasn’t even started) because Intern’s mom has cancer. That’s literally what Boss said.

    I guess my question is this: At what point does an unfortunate and really understandable family situation cease being a reason for unprofessional behaviour?

    1. Laura*

      The family situation isn’t the problem for your husband. The problem is his boss. That said, no solution I can think of. But document and hope for the best.

    2. Spider in a Meeting*

      yeah this is a completely ridiculous set up to begin with (sounds like the Mom knows someone at the company well). Since the directive is coming from above, I don’t think you can change it. Your husband should document everything and unfortunately keep plugging along without the real help of his intern.

      If the woman who has cancer is responsive to the boss’ calls, it is likely that the reason for the intern’s nonresponsiveness is not that he’s so busy taking care of his mom, he’s just irresponsible.

    3. WellRed*

      Unless she also has an eating disorder, intern needs to step it up.

      Ok, sorry. that wasn’t helpful.

    4. boringname123*

      Why is your husband sending emails, calls, and texts to the intern if they haven’t even started yet?

    5. Close Bracket*

      “who hasn’t even started”

      Is there more to this story? Because if my nut job future boss was sending me emails before I started, I wouldn’t answer them either.

      1. Kuododi*

        I’m not sure about OP situation but I have worked at mental health centers where either HR or another supervisor would need to contact me ahead of start date to arrange things such as background check, schedule training and the like.

      3. FirstTimeCaller*

        The intern has an in-office start date (when he actually reports to the office) but Husband has them start before that with some video assignments, to make sure they have the same working vocabulary, are familiar with systems, etc. These are videos that the interns watch and they are paid for the time they watch them. In ideal circumstances, these would be done before hand so that interns can hit the ground running on their first in-office day. Husband has done this multiple times before and hasn’t had any issue before now.

        I work in a totally different industry, so not sure if this is normal or not.

    6. Observer*

      It’s unprofessional and inexcusable.

      Your husband needs to start acting as though no has been hired, and no one will be hired for the next few months. That’s effectively true.

      When talking to his boss, he needs to take the line of “when the intern actually starts we can discuss what he will do blah blah blah.” And “what do we to till the intern starts?” Don’t talk about firing, because the boss doens’t want to hear it, but perhaps something like this will allow your husband to get some useful resolution. Maybe suggest a temp “till the new guy actually starts.”

    7. FirstTimeCaller*

      Thanks everyone for input! Intern’s first in-office day is today, so we’ll see how it goes. Husband and Intern finally connected over the phone, but Husband is still going to document everything going forwards and hope for the best.

  59. Going downhill fast*

    How do you know when it’s time to leave? I’ve been at a great company for about 8 years, loved my work and had great managers. Until recently. We did a big reorganization and my bigger team got moved into a whole new area. In some ways this is great for the work we are doing, as the new area is an important focus for the company. BUT, we also merged with another team with a wholly different culture, and I now have a new manager – Mordred, let’s say. (The difference between those two would also be an interesting discussion in and of itself.) I’m also not convinced about Fay, the manager above Mordred.

    I still work with most of the people on my old team and really enjoy what we do, but have to deal with this new upward reporting relationship. Mordred has a bad relationship with most of the people who report to him (since before I joined the team) and he’s not really improving. I’ve been doing my best to adapt to his style, but it’s not great and not getting better. HR and his management know about the issues but I don’t know what if anything is being done at that level.

    I still love the company, but I’m not seeing many options to move within the company now. I’m struggling with the decision to try sticking it out for a year or two (under the premise that all things change eventually), or to start looking outside now.

    How have others made this decision? What should I be thinking about?

    1. RabidChild*

      I feel like if you’re questioning it, it’s time. Some things to consider:

      1. If you’re miserable, many on your team likely are as well. They’ll be looking too. this either adds competitors to your job search (albeit friendly ones) as well as more work and upheaval as they leave. You may not want to deal with either.
      2. Job searches can take a while–searches for the perfect job even more. You have the opportunity now to take your time–while you’re still employed! And who knows, if the PTB deal with Mordred before you’ve found something, you can always suspend your search.

      I hope that helps?

    2. Lily Rowan*

      Starting to look really doesn’t commit you to anything, so I’d go for it. Maybe you look at job postings and don’t see anything appealing for six months, maybe you stumble across something amazing immediately. Either way, you don’t know until you do it.

    3. Natalie*

      Why not start looking now even if you haven’t decided for sure? There’s nothing about looking that obligates you to apply or interview or even accept a job offer. Plus, looking before you are Capital-D desperate to go makes it so much easier to be really selective with your next position.

      1. Detective Amy Santiago*

        This. Looking doesn’t mean you’re going to leave. I started looking casually and was very picky about what I actually applied to.

  60. Alternative Person*

    Had an interview last week for a one day a week position at one of the best employers in my area. I got an offer. Things are up in the air until my schedule settles down a bit but even if it falls through for now, my foot is in the door. It’ll probably cause some friction at my main job, but I’ll be mostly moving on from them within the year anyways.

    Now all I need to do is wrangle my training practicums for the qualification that’ll get me the top pay rate. I think that can be a problem for next week.

  61. RabidChild*

    Any advice for a senior-level person searching for a new job? I am looking for a job for the first time in 10 years–my past two positions were secured through personal contacts but now I find myself “on the pull” as it were. It seems that all the job listings in my field are looking for people with 5-10 years’ experience, and I have 20! Where are people finding opportunities at this level, or do they just not exist?

    People advise me to hook up with a recruiter, but don’t they work for employers primarily? I am not interested in paying thousands of dollars for “career counseling” that amounts to “network.” I am doing that! So what is the secret code word to get into the playhouse LOL?

    Any advice is appreciated.

    1. Spider in a Meeting*

      There are independent recruiters who have several companies as their clients. And the companies are the ones that pay the recruiters, usually in the form of a % of your salary once hired. So there is no risk or cost to you to be connected to a recruiter. LinkedIn now has a setting that you can show yourself to recruiters as “available” for jobs.

  62. Misty*

    I just wanted to give Alison and this site a thank you and a shout out :).

    I’ve had to have a series of uncomfortable communications with my boss. It is extremely difficult for me to advocate for myself, and my boss is very avoidant.

    Although I didn’t get an answer to a submitted question, which only touched on the first step of things, just reading this site with all the suggested scripts helped me phase my issues to my boss in a productive frame and he responded really well and even apologized.

    Thanks AAM!

  63. Susan Sto Helit*

    I work around halfway up an 18-story office block. It’s supposed to have 5 elevators (plus a goods elevator), but it’s an old building and two are permanently out of action, with others breaking down periodically (and taking forever to be fixed when they do). Right now we only have two elevators in operation, and have done for several weeks. Not all the floors of our building are occupied at present, but enough of them are that you can be waiting AGES for an elevator at busy times, and quite often when you get one it ends up stopping repeatedly at other floors for people to get on/off. They’ve started populating some more of the high-up vacant floors right now, so the problem is getting worse.

    My question: when there’s this much pressure on the elevators, it’s bad form for (able bodied) people to be using them to travel just one or two floors, right? We seem to have this complete epidemic of people unable to walk even a single flight of stairs to get between, say, the ground floor and the first-floor restaurant, oblivious to the sighs and eye-rolls from the people around them who just want to get back to work without stopping on every. single. floor.

    Has anyone else encountered issues like this where you work? How did your company deal with it – was there any effort made to encourage people to use the stairs for short trips, when physically able?

    1. Amylou*

      My school had a 12 story building. The elevators simply didn’t stop on floors 1-6. They had disabled it in some way. Up until the 6th floor you had to walk up the stairs, or as many people did, take the elevator to the 7th floor and walk one down. There was always a 10-minute queue for the elevator. I ended up always taking the stairs to my classrooms on floors 6, 7 and sometimes 8. I was very fit after a couple weeks! It just seemed too silly to wait for 10 minutes to get on an elevator…

      1. Susan Sto Helit*

        Ah, that sounds sensible. I kind of wish we had those smart elevators where you have to tell it which floor you’re going to when you call it, and if it detects someone going only one floor it will shout ‘TAKE THE STAIRS’ at them like it’s a Harry Potter howler.

        Those with mobility issues can have an elevator badge, obviously.

        In the meantime maybe I should take some superglue to floors 2–6…

        1. Observer*

          Not if you have DISABLED the elevator from stopping at those floors.

          And, honestly, the idea of requiring badges is awful. Especially since you’re not talking about only one floor, and there are plenty of reasons why even apparently able bodied people may have issues with stairs, either in general or on a one time basis. No one should have to deal with “Well, THAT ONE must be gaming the system!” because they “look” like they should be able to take the stairs.

      2. Observer*

        That sounds terrible. It’s bad enough to force people to get a badge to use the elevator. But to make it impossible? Ew.

        It doesn’t even sound like it worked – a 10 minute wait for elevators sounds like they never through through the capacity issues.

    2. Ali G*

      In many buildings (at least in the US) you can’t access floors, beyond the lobby and parking decks from the stairwell. For safety reasons, they are fire escapes, and that’s it. So possibly, many people would like to walk between floors but can’t.
      We had issues at OldJob when they were refurbishing the elevators and it was ridic during peak times. It tool a lot of complaints (and people getting locked int he stairwells when the tried to walk) for them to unlock the stairwells to the various floors until the renovations were completed.

      1. Susan Sto Helit*

        Definitely not a problem here – we have two stairwells available, and both are accessible from all occupied floors. More frequently used for people to stand in to have personal phone conversations than actually walk up or down!

        1. Anonymosity*

          Same, at Exjob. I used the stairwell for workouts on my break. By the time I left, a bunch of other people had started doing it too.
          In the morning, I used the elevator because I have to carry my entire life with me in my purse and a tote bag. :P

    3. OtterB*

      You can’t tell by looking at someone if they have a medical issue that keeps them from walking up or down a couple of flights of stairs.

      1. Admin of Sys*

        This! I absolutely can take the stairs – for a day or two, and then my knees will start giving out on flat ground. But if I don’t take the stairs, I walk just fine. Please don’t assume that people are capable of skipping the elevator just because they appear able bodied

      2. KayEss*

        This. What the hell?

        If someone rolled their eyes at me for taking the elevator because they can’t see that my knees are killing me, I’d fart before getting off at my floor.

      3. Not So NewReader*

        Raises hand. Yep, I am not one of those people who can run up and down stairs all day. I might do it once on some days, then other days not at all. And I look like a person who should be able to do that. It took me a while to learn to shrug off people’s opinions on that.

    4. Ama*

      When I was in university administration, I worked for awhile on the 4th floor of a building that had classrooms on floors 2 and 3. There was one elevator and it was slow as molasses (it took at least 45 full seconds to go from one floor to the next – I timed it once out of curiousity). The door to the stairs was clearly visible right next to the elevator — it was extremely annoying when all the students would just pile into the elevator and then get all off on the 2nd floor. (I do realize that some people can’t manage stairs but there was no way as many students as were taking the elevator needed to do so.) The stairs had also been specially constructed just to go to floors 2 and 3 because the university knew they only had space for one elevator — so those of us who needed to go to 4 and up had no choice but to wait.

      My boss hated it so much — and was also severely claustrophobic, so crowded elevators were agony — so he forced university security to give him special keys to our fire stairs which were on the other side of the building (and normally could not be opened from the outside) and just walked up and down four flights every time.

      It was even more annoying because the ground floor lobby was TINY and students would fill up the atrium during class changes, standing there for 10 minutes at a time, complaining about being late to class — when the stairs were literally two steps to their left. Some of my coworkers would occasionally say very loudly things like “gee I wish I could just take the STAIRS over there, but they only go to the SECOND and THIRD floors” but it didn’t work particularly well. Some of the senior managers begged for clearer signage on the stair door or propping the door open to make it clearer that it wasn’t just for emergencies but we couldn’t do either of those things for some nebulous bureaucratic reason.

    5. CTT*

      Unless you personally and intimately know every person in the building, you can’t assume they’re able-bodied. Or they are, but they have new shoes that are about to make them bleed and they want to eliminate steps. Or anything. It is hella annoying to have the elevator stop every floor, but there’s not much you can do about it, unless your HR wants to send an email gently suggesting limiting elevator use while there are outages.

    6. HannahS*

      No. I have medical issues, and I take elevators up and often down single flights of stairs. I’m young and look able bodied but slightly overweight, and I have no doubt people look at me and think I could use the exercise and am clogging up the elevator. And I hate those signs that say “please leave the elevator for those who need it” because then people either assume that I’m being selfish or insensitive to the needs of people with disabilities, or it reveals something about my own body that I feel is private. In between older people with aches and pains, people with medical issues, people with heavy bags and those with impractical shoes, and then the people all those people are going to the restaurant with, the elevators are going to get clogged. If you’re rolling your eyes and sighing at people because the elevators are so unbearable slow, you can take the stairs yourself.

    7. Marcela*

      The real solution is to have the company talk to the building manager about getting all five elevators back in service, or fixing broken ones in a timely manner. The elevators are there to be used, and people are using them.

      Unless you intimately know someone, you really can’t tell based on looks whether they’re able-bodied and capable of using the stairs. And either way, they’re entitled to use the elevator just as much as the rest of you. Everybody knows the stairs are an option, you don’t need to remind them.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Right on.
        The side-eyeing and the judgy stuff is a symptom of ineffective management. When management does not do its job, eventually the employees start turning on each other. Know the pattern and avoid the pattern. Put the blame where the blame squarely belongs. It does not belong on fellow employees.

        Maybe someone should call code enforcement to see if there is a violation of building code going on here.

    8. Grouchy 2 cents*

      I mean, my solution would be to have all tenants stop paying rent until the management company provided the correct number of working elevators or a plan to do so within X time period. Because they could (and should) absolutely be replacing each elevator in turn starting with the two permanently out of service (which, how is that a thing? The fire department should be citing them for code violations on the regular).

      1. Not So NewReader*

        IANAL, however, sometimes withholding rent can cause a whole new set of problems that has nothing to do with crappy elevators.
        Someone who might be interested in the crappy elevators is the insurance company.

    9. Observer*

      when there’s this much pressure on the elevators, it’s bad form for (able bodied) people to be using them to travel just one or two floors, right?

      Wrong.

      What’s “bad form”, to put it mildly, is for building management to avoid making sure that the elevators work. There are plenty of older buildings with working elevators and there is no TECHNICAL reason yours can’t be working either. It is simply NOT true that the buildings are “too old” to make sure the elevators work.

      We seem to have this complete epidemic of people unable to walk even a single flight of stairs to get between, say, the ground floor and the first-floor restaurant, oblivious to the sighs and eye-rolls from the people around them who just want to get back to work without stopping on every. single. floor.

      You should be glad that they seem to be oblivious! What are you going to do when someone actually asks you why your acting like a 3 year old? Or is bit more polite and asks you why you are sighing and rolling your eyes at them? Are you really going to tell them that you decided that they don’t have the right to use the elevator because they are obviously capable but too lazy to use the stairs? I’d love to be a fly on the wall when you do that, because I suspect that the response will make for some good fireworks.

    10. Weak Trees*

      In case you’re still reading, my company’s Manhattan building has 40 stories and tens of thousands of employees. For both expediency and security reasons, the 12 elevators are programmed differently: four go only to floors 1-15, four go only to floors 16-30, and four go only to floors 31-40.

      Obviously, your ideal would be to get all five of your elevators running, but in the meantime, is there anyone within your or another company in the building with the authority to get at least one elevator reprogrammed to go only to floors 10-18, to cut out half of those annoyance stops?

  64. Overeducated*

    Guys, I’m so grumpy about everything related to right now. Around half my department’s staff has left since May 1, or are in the process of doing so, and I’m starting to hit the point of feeling overwhelmed and wondering “what even is my job now?” Relief will not come soon, because I work for a giant bureaucracy that has made hiring a slow-moving nightmare. We just need to tread water, try to survive, and hope desperately that we won’t lose anyone else.

    I’m also grumpy because me and my coworkers are mostly pretty new, relatively junior, and there are so few of us, but we’re footing the bill and doing the organizing and cooking and planning and gift purchasing for all these going-away parties where crowds of people in other departments will be attending to celebrate people they’ve worked with for much longer. Someone who said she’d help co-organize for the next one came by my office this morning and asked, “Could we get the really nice room? [No, it was booked.] What are you planning to do about tablecloths? The person who was going to get flowers can’t be there, do you know who will get flowers?” I couldn’t come right out and say it, but I have worked here less than three months, so I am not planning on buying flowers AND food AND a nice expensive departmental gift, and I just wish this well-meaning person who cares so much could use her much stronger workplace relationships to find someone else to buy flowers and bring tablecloths.

    On top of that, my commute has been horrible because I’ve been getting flats on my rear bike tire once or twice a week for six weeks now, and a new tire, several new tubes, and a trip to the bike shop last weekend did not fix the problem. I could throw more money at another replacement tire but who even knows if it’ll help? So demoralizing, taking public transit only extends my commute, costs more money, and means I have no time at all to exercise.

    1. WellRed*

      DO NOT FOOT THE BILL for all this stuff, which is over the top, to say the least. Parties? Flowers? Gifts?

      If you can’t get out of planning, ask for a budget and how they would like to pay for it. Give you their company card? A check from petty cash? Do they have accounts with certain vendors?
      Also, why such high turnover in such a short period? I’d be concerned about that.

      1. Overeducated*

        The problem is there’s no one else to foot the bill, it’s government. It has to come from us and usually comes from coworkers and management. There is a leadership vacuum right now, senior people in other departments do not seem to be jumping to chip in, and we don’t really know a good way to yell from the rooftops that we can’t really afford this.

        The turnover is a huge sign (AND CAUSE) of issues, yeah. Some of it is part of a huge wave of well earned retirements but the rest has to do with really unfortunate and endemic managerial decisions that make me concerned about retaining some of my remaining coworkers as well. I just have to stick it out at least two years if at all possible.

      2. Overeducated*

        And gifts seem to be a tradition, but flowers was new to me as well! I’ve been to at least 3 retirement parties in the last month and none of them had flowers and tablecloths. I keep trying to tell people that my talents do NOT lie in party planning (I was hired for my PhD and several years of relevant experience, not for thoughtful decorative touches), and i am also trying to take over a large part of this coworker’s actual job, so they need to keep the expectations reasonable here.

  65. Shot in the foot?*

    So, I don’t know if I unintentionally hurt my chances or not. I had a phone interview over a month ago that went well enough and they said I’d back in a week. Well, came and went so at 2 weeks I followed up with the recruiters and still nothing. So a week after that, I said something to a few others along the lines that while it was nice enough interview, I was disappointed that I didn’t heard back, even if it was just to say they moved on with other candidates. This may or may not have gotten back to the recruiters because I soon heard back from them (wasn’t out of the running, had valid reasons why it was taking awhile, etc). So I guess my question is, did I just shoot myself in the foot on this? Nothing I felt I said was rude or angry, just disappointed in lack of updates, and I would really still like the job.

    1. Tara S.*

      Not necessarily, but I would cool it for a while. I think people who are running a slow hiring process understand that it’s frustrating to wait, so your check-ins were not out of place. But I wouldn’t reach out again for a few weeks.

      1. Shot in the foot?*

        Oh, I should have clarified: the people I talked to voicing my concerns were not part of the company or hiring process, but I have reason to believe the company I interviewed with got word of what I said.

    2. Bill*

      I wouldn’t think so. You weren’t saying anything about them, only that you were disappointed. A reasonable person wouldn’t be offended.

  66. It's me*

    During an interview, what does the question, “what do you look for in a work environment”, mean? I’ve had this question asked to me in all my recent interviews, and I don’t know if they’re looking for physical environment or more of a culture thing?
    Thanks!

    1. Keyboard face*

      I think it’d be more of a culture question. Most people (unless they are in the design industry) don’t really give much of a thought towards physical environments.

      1. It's me*

        That’s what I was thinking, but with all the talk on AAM about open office spaces, I thought it could be a way to figure out if people will enjoy working in a particular physical space.

    2. Tara S.*

      Def. a culture thing. They may be looking for responses along the lines of “I’m looking for a place that grants autonomy to workers to get stuff done, opportunities to collaborate on teams, and values investing in employees with a clear path for progression. It’s sort of a “what’s important to you about a job/place you work?”

    3. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I think it’s both. I mean, I know I wouldn’t be able to work in a non-climate controlled environment. I get hot way too easy.

    4. Admin of Sys*

      I’d say mostly culture, unless you have hard limits in regards to physical space. If you absolutely hate hot-desking, saying ‘personal working space so I can focus’ could be a valid response. But usually, folks are looking for things like ‘clear communication channels’ or ‘self directed work’ or opportunities to attain new skills’.

    5. bonkerballs*

      I think it’s both. Maybe you’re looking for a work environment that’s very collaborative – that’s more a culture thing. But maybe you’re easily distracted so you’re also looking for a work environment that’s fairly quiet or where’d you have your own office space. That’s more physical. I think both aspects are equally important in finding an environment that will allow you to be successful.

  67. Aurora Leigh*

    Vent ahead — my company has mandatory “summer hours” from roughly June-August and I hate it!

    I was hired to work 8-5, but in the summer they close the building at 4, so everyone works 7-4, with option to take a half hour lunch and leave at 3:30.

    Our supervisor let’s me and the other 8-5 coworker work 7:30-4 with a half hour lunch, since phone coverage is an essential part of our dept.

    So for the peole who were hired to work 7-4, this is a great summer perk.

    For me it’s a huge drag! I have to get up earlier, and I’m really feeling the lack of sleep!!

    I know I should just go to bed earlier to compensate, but I’m still getting off work at the same time at my secind job, so . . .

    Plus, this is presented as giving us “more time with our families”, but my boyfriend works 2nd shift, so it just gives us less time, since it’s really hard to stay up to see him when he gets home since I have to be at work earlier.

    It’s just incredibly annoying! One week down and counting. At least I can try to catch up on sleep tomorrow . . .

    1. Emily S.*

      This seems very odd to me. In my experience of summer hours, nobody has to come in earlier, they just leave early. Making it mandatory to work an earlier shift is ridiculous!

      I’m really sorry you have to deal with it all summer!

      1. Judy (since 2010)*

        In my experience, in engineering design, with core hours of 8:30-3:30, “summer hours” has meant “on Fridays, whenever in the afternoon you’ve worked your 40 hours for the week, you can leave. Don’t schedule meetings on Friday afternoons.” Basically it’s pre-approved flextime outside the stated core hours.

    2. Totally Minnie*

      I hate when companies close the office and present it as a perk, but don’t compensate staff accordingly for it. I’m public sector, and most government agencies I’ve worked for will close their offices early on the days before major holidays, but they don’t offer paid holiday time for it. So I literally can’t work for half a day because they won’t let me, and I have to take vacation time to cover the difference.

      All that to say, I feel you, Aurora Leigh.

      1. Short & Dumpy*

        Are you a contractor? or local government maybe? Because I’ve worked in 4 different federal agencies and ALL of them coded that as Admin Leave which is a paid category.

    3. WellRed*

      It doesn’t sound like much of a perk to me. Leaving 30 minutes earlier by shortening my lunch? Big whoop. I sympathize, though. I think it’s unreasonable of them to change your hours like that.

    4. Ama*

      I think it is fair to mention to your manager that this doesn’t work for you was well as other people in the office (and why) and that if there is ever an opportunity to leave the building open so you can work your normal hours you’d be open to that. I think quite often certain plans like this get implemented and because *most* people like them the people who don’t are scared to say anything, which leads management to never look for alternatives because “no one has complained.” (For the record, I would have many of the same objections as you about this.) The trick is to acknowledge that there may not be anything your manager can do right away but that you just wanted to share your thoughts in case at some point alternatives could be made available.

      I don’t suppose you could be trained to close the building and offer to do so in order to stay later? (I realize that might not be possible based on the setup or security policies of your workplace.)

  68. Llama Wrangler*

    I received a verbal job offer this week for a position/org that I’m excited about, but the salary came in just below my ideal range (which they acknowledged). When I received the offer, I asked for information about benefits to be emailed. I have not yet received them. Can someone give me a script for following up with the hiring manager about that?

    For context, I received the offer early this week and said I could get back to them early next week if I’m interested in moving forward. I have some other questions about the position that I’d like to speak with them about, but I also really do need to see the compensation package to figure out whether I’d be willing to take the offered salary (and/or how much I should try to negotiate up.)

    1. Spider in a Meeting*

      Maybe something like “Thank you for the offer, I am excited at the possibility of working for LlamasInc.
      As you’ve noted, the salary offered is outside of my ideal range, therefore I do need to consider the components of benefits package in making my final determination. Would it be possible to get those details at this time? I also have a few questions about the position, and would appreciate the chance to talk through with HiringManager prior to responding to the offer…”

      1. Llama Wrangler*

        Thanks! That’s helpful. Now I’m debating if it’s better to follow up this afternoon if I haven’t heard anything or wait until Monday morning.

        1. Spider in a Meeting*

          If they want an answer from you early next week, I’d suggest following up today (if its not too late in your timezone).

  69. Gaia*

    Back in October I took on a new temporary role at my company under the promise that when this role ended I would be put back in my original role or offered another equivalent role. Today I was informed my original role no longer exists (I knew this – they’ve restructured in a way that I agree is better than before) and I have 12 weeks to find a new role in the company or I’ll be out on the streets.

    I’ll be honest, I’m devastated. Of all the things I thought I might get told today “you’re effectively being laid off even though we swore you wouldn’t be” never even crossed my mind. Yes, they are offering a measly severance and “outplacement” services. But they’re also conveniently ending my timeframe 8 weeks before my stock options vest (which, at current levels amount to nearly 3x their severance offer).

    I’m frustrated and angry and I just don’t even know where to start. I feel lost.

    1. KX*

      Oh, Gaia. That is awful. They do that at my company, too, but at least there is a sort of whisper network advising people on leaving the “core function” and to beware “special projects.” Just enough people are able to leverage it to something glorious that individuals keep risking it.

      I am very sorry for you, and it doesn’t seem fair, and the vested part is probably an unhappy coincidence but it is still a bummer x100.

      1. Gaia*

        I agree the stock is a coincidence but I’m going to do my damnedest to get them to reconsider that. It is a huge amount of money and if I’ll be out of a job, I really can’t just leave that on the table without a fight.

        Does anyone have any idea if I’d qualify for unemployment in a situation like this? My role is very niche and the industry is nonexistent in my city outside this company so finding new work will not be easy.

        1. Spider in a Meeting*

          I would definitely at least ASK about the vesting portion. Even if they prorate it to the year – 8 weeks. Or if you can somehow at least get a portion of it. Or get an increased severance to somewhat compensate for the loss of the vesting. As far as unemployment, it depends on the state, but if its a lay off I couldn’t imagine you NOT getting it.

    2. Overeducated*

      Oh, no. I remember how great an opportunity your temporary role sounded like and I’m so sorry your company is pulling the rug out from under you. What a rotten move.

  70. Dr Wizard, PhD*

    My new boss is starting next week (my old one was promoted three months ago). I’ve been covering the (very extensive) work of our (tiny, two-person, government) division for that time, and am the subject matter expert on most of it by default. I’ve met new boss once in a brief meeting with our director, and am mostly corresponding by email (she’s being thrown into a lot of meetings). I like her. She seems really competent, engaged, and down to earth, and I get that impression through the grapevine also.

    Any advice on making a good impression / being seen as competent and an active contributor at a high level? My old boss had a bit of ‘I’ve been around for forty years and you’re right out of college’ going on, ignoring that I’m in my thirties with a PhD in a relevant field.

    1. Ama*

      I have had good luck impressing new managers with my organization. For example, four months after I started my current job, the manager that hired me had an unexpected medical leave, and I reported to her boss in the meantime. I came in to our first meeting with a detailed list of everything I was aware of that needed to be covered in my manager’s absence, and every time we met afterwards I updated the list and would send it to her so we were on the same page. It paid off hugely when my manager ended up not being able to return (she did recover but opted to find a job closer to home because of the physical strain of commuting) and I was given a big promotion and a number of her responsibilities full time.

      Also, if she perhaps has a plan for the department that you have concerns about, be prepared to express those concerns calmly and with plenty of context, so it’s clear you aren’t just resistant to change. At a different job , a new manager came in with this grand plan that to people who didn’t understand how our office workflow worked seemed like it would save time, but which would in actuality become a huge administrative headache for me, so I gently explained the background of why I did not think her plan was a good idea. I think she was pretty surprised at the pushback, but after she’d been working there for a few more weeks and better understood the workflow she realized I was right, which also meant she learned to trust my judgement on any changes to internal processes.

      1. Dr Wizard, PhD*

        That’s really helpful, thanks! In fact, she probably will – and I also have plans for what changes I’d love to see in the department – so it’ll be an interesting process of bringing her up to speed (as she’s from a very different area) while still coming across as supportive and competent.

        I’ve had the opportunity to compile a bunch of briefs and answer questions for her via email, so I’ll stay on top of that till I’m working regularly with her in person.

        To be honest, I’ve been exhausted trying to cover all this on my own, but I think the best way to convey that around the bigger bosses should be ‘Thanks for giving me the opportunity to show I could handle this’.

  71. GettingBy*

    Hi everyone. I’m hoping to get some advice on my current situation regarding salary negotiation.
    I’m currently employed, but was asked by an HR recruiter to apply for a position at another company in the same field. The job listing didn’t have a salary range, and I neglected to ask for their range during the phone interview/HR screening call. I have an interview scheduled for Tuesday, and was asked to fill out and bring a paper application listing a “desired salary”. Is it too late to follow up via email to ask for the salary range?

    Additional info: my job is specific enough that I’m finding it hard to find a market rate salary range online, and job openings can be few and far between. I’ve only been in this career for ~3 years, and I make little enough money that a few thousand dollars more would really impact my quality of life (I live in a high cost of living area). I don’t want to undervalue myself, but I also don’t want to shoot myself in the foot in the process by asking for too much. I’m thinking of just adding 20% (or 25%?) to my current salary and listing that…

    Any thoughts or advice for a novice?
    Thank you

    1. Susan Sto Helit*

      I think if you were contacted by a recruiter you should feel free to ask them what the salary range is. They should know, and it’s in their interest to make sure no one’s time is being wasted if the range doesn’t suit.

  72. saffytaffy*

    My coworker keeps describing unrealistic scenarios that don’t make any sense, and she’s not reading my body language or listening when I say, “I have to get back to work.”
    “But what if a patron needs this obscure file type and we don’t have it, so they complain…”
    “But what if Wakeen changes his mind and then doesn’t tell us, but he thinks he told us, so then…”
    “But what if the sales rep thinks I’m being dismissive, and then they call our supervisor, and…”
    “But what if someone takes too many donuts from the table and then someone gets mad because…”

    I turn my back to her and start typing. I say, “That doesn’t sound realistic. I need to get back to work.” I don’t reply. But at least 5 times a day, she creeps up behind me. “Hey, ~saffy~.” I’m beginning to hate the sound of my own name.
    There are so many good things about my job, but she is really making me dread coming to work.

    1. Spider in a Meeting*

      My parents used to respond in hyperbole “but what if we all get hit by an elephant walking down the street!” Not saying this is the best approach, but it could be, although something more direct like “coworker, spending your energies on unrealistic ‘what ifs’ is not a productive use of time. Maybe next time you have these thoughts right them down and then re-read the list and cross off any that seem to be too remote to REALLY be an issue and we can discuss the other ones (presuming its your responsibility to discuss these at all). I also recall there was a post or open thread about this recently, but I can’t recall enough to direct you back to it (sorry).

    2. self employed*

      Is she new? Are you supposed to be training her? If not, it’s time to point out the pattern: she’s continually interrupting you. Ask her to knock it off unless a real issue comes up.

    3. Tara S.*

      You’ve been clear with body language, but since she’s not getting the hint, maybe a more direct comment? “Coworker, you ask me about hypothetical questions multiple times every day. It’s very distracting and I don’t have answers for you. Could you please stop asking me about these hypotheticals?”

    4. Crash Landed*

      Have you tried telling her to stop doing this? “Banana, you keep asking me all these what if questions. It’s distracting to be interrupted for this and I need you to stop doing it. If anything happens, we’ll deal with it then.” Then if it happens again: “Please stop interrupting me to ask these hypothetical questions.”

      Don’t rely on body language or soft rejections with someone like this. Be clear and direct. And don’t respond to the actual questions at all. Address the behavior not the question.

    5. Afiendishthingy*

      oh no I’m so sorry fired coworker from my last job got hired at your job :O

      (Fired Coworker once asked another coworker, who had already said several times “Please don’t ask me more questions, I can’t talk right now I have to get this done” if CF could follow her into the bathroom and “talk to you while you pee”)

      2. saffytaffy*

        Yeah, mine is clever at finding loopholes like this, too. I once asked her not to interrupt me unless it was an emergency because I was on a deadline. So the daily 5 interruptions began with, “I don’t know if this is an emergency, but I’m pretty sure it is…”

    6. saffytaffy*

      Update:
      Saffy: Hey, Banana, can I talk to you about something? It takes me a long time to get back on track when I’m interrupt-
      Banana: And people interrupt you all the time, yeah, because of where you sit.
      Saffy: Work-related interruptions are just part of the job, that’s fine. What I want to say is that when you come to me with hypothetical worries about stuff, like X just now, I really can’t do anything about tha-
      Banana: But what if X loses the data we sent them and then says it’s our fault because-
      Saffy: Hold on. Please. I’m trying to say that that’s not a realistic situation. And I feel like you bring unrealistic worries to me a lot, and it’s making me lose focus.
      Banana: But if X loses the data we compiled and then says it’s our fault because they don’t understand-
      Saffy: That’s not a realistic scenario. And I don’t have time to speculate about it, okay? It’s taking me away from my work. (Banana is getting red in the face and looks really upset) We have these conversations several times a day, and I can’t keep doing it.
      Banana: I’m just trying to figure out the best way to do this because if X loses the data we gave them and then gets mad at us-
      Saffy: I know. You said that. I understand. But I need to do my work, and I can’t speculate on these things (Banana turns around and leaves) throughout the day with you…

      And now Banana has taken emergency sick leave.

        1. saffytaffy*

          I’ve done that, but our supervisor wants me to handle it myself. She’s given me all the same advice you all have, to confront her politely but directly, and to make the focus “I need to do my work.”

          1. Close Bracket*

            Given the latest developments, I think you need to go back and talk to your supervisor before Banana does. What you need to tell her at this point is that you followed her advice, and this is what happened. Be dispassionate.

            “and people interrupt you all the time, yeah, because of where you sit.”

            Ha ha. I love that this is where she went with this. “Oh yes totally, you must hate it when all those other people who aren’t me interrupt you.”

          2. Observer*

            So, go back to your supervisor. Tell her what has happened. Ask her what she wants you to do next if CW comes back.

            Point out to her that you can keep on saying directly “This is not a realistic scenario and I’m not going to spend time speculating” and getting back to work, but that the interruptions WILL affect your productivity. Which is OK, if that is how Boss wants to handle it. But you just want to make sure that you’re both on the same page.

        2. saffytaffy*

          Thank you for the good luck. :) I think at this point, I’m just going to see what happens Monday morning. I think she’ll either decide “saffy was mean to me!” and from there she might talk to our supervisor, or she might just leave me alone. She might also decide, “hey, I’m being needy, I’ll try to do better.” So I figure I’ve got a 66% chance of this working out, right? 2 out of 3? Even if she talks to our supervisor, I don’t imagine much will happen. The likeliest outcome there is that Supe will say, “handle it yourself.” Hm.
          Hey guys, thank you for letting me type all this out and for the advice! It really feels helpful to have a sane-yet-anonymous audience like this. Thank you!

          1. bonkerballs*

            It sounds like you’ve already brought this to your manager’s attention, so if Banana does go to the manager he’s already aware of the issue. And hopefully will be able to redirect Banana appropriately.

          2. Not So NewReader*

            Ugh.
            Just one tip I have: People in panic like that need short explanations. Very short. “Banana, I don’t answer ‘what if’ questions. If you have a problem right now I will help with that problem. No more ‘what if’ questions.”
            Then going forward, “Banana, is this happening right now?’ [No, but it could.] “You already know I do not answer ‘what if’ questions.”

      2. NotaPirate*

        Holy cow! That’s an update. Poor banana. That is definitely something mentally then and not a desire to chat all the time. That sort of one track thought process that keeps looping sounds like textbook anxiety. Hopefully banana can be courageous and go see a counselor, they have a lot of helpful coping strategies for anxiety these days as well as chemical treatment.

        I did group therapy workshop for anxiety once, it was great. The instructions to visit included all these helpful tips (like arrive 5 min early but not 10 min early. the elevator is on the left when you enter the building, both elevators will work, you don’t need to check in with anyone in the building but there will be a guy sitting by the main doors. you go to X floor and then its the 2nd door on the left as you exit…) and I wished everything would be like that. *facepalm* I later realized that of course the anxiety workshop group gets it and wanting that level of things thought through is in fact anxiety flaring up.

        Definately mention to your boss the details of your conversation while its fresh in your mind. HR/Boss will need details for the sick leave at some point, also to keep you in the clear if Banana comes back and wants to play the blame game.

        1. saffytaffy*

          I think I’m reacting so strongly to it because she reminds me of me at 19 or 20, when I thought if anyone was angry with me it was THE END OF THE WORLD. I don’t want to use the word ~triggering~ but it’s viscerally, stomach-churningly upsetting to watch her get so worked up about stuff that’s just imaginary. And I don’t have the emotional energy to talk it through every single time, or even once a day.

          The notes for the anxiety workshop are fascinating, NotaPirate.

          1. NotaPirate*

            Regardless of emotional energy, it’s definitely not your job to talk her through it. In fact doing so can be more harmful than good, what is she going to do if you’re out sick one day? If her anxiety is to the point she can’t exist without hand holding that is absolutely a time to get help.

            1. saffytaffy*

              I get a lot of texts when our schedules don’t overlap, which is once or twice a month. Most of them take the guise of “here’s this funny story…” but sometimes they’re “omigod what if aliens steal the toner and i get blamed for it?!?!”

          2. Not So NewReader*

            Am chuckling, yeah, I did some of that over-worrying myself. For me, I was amazed how much stuff cohorts just let slide by unchecked. I had difficulty understanding that no one cared about preventing problems in the future. I think that is a big adjustment for people when they start working, the amount of stuff that is allowed to fall through the cracks. I still watch this today, almost 40 years later, where so many situations are preventable and the amount of money that is wasted on aftermath remedies blows my mind.

            1. saffytaffy*

              It’s really true! I spent my childhood trying to manage 2 alcoholic parents, and then I grow up and suddenly not everything is constantly my fault, and I can just show up and do a decent job and everything is fine? It took a while to get used to. I do, genuinely, feel sorry for my coworker. I don’t know what her issue is- maybe she hates where we work, maybe she needs to see a therapist. I’m not willing to work on it with her, but I do hope she gets better for her own sake.

              1. Not So NewReader*

                Similar story from me here. That constant level of worry sounds to me like she has lots going on at home. In a calmer moment you might be able to stress with her that responsibility is SHARED. Not everything falls on her.

      3. Friday*

        Good on you to document and good luck with your boss. At least now you know how to make Banana leave you alone.

        1. saffytaffy*

          Thank you! This has been so hard for me- my whole personality is built around people liking me, and I’m pretty sure she’s not going to like me anymore. But really, now that it’s happened, I feel so much better.

    7. It’s all good*

      Our youngest does this on the daily, it’s her anxiety speaking. Her therapist suggests we immediately ask her “is this realistic? Do you know someone that this’s has happened too?” I guess not having a basis helps break the spell? Now she prefaces with “I know this not realistic, but what if…?” – Baby steps! I hadn’t thought about how this would impact her career if it’s not corralled.

  73. KX*

    I am employed but searching for a job outside the company.

    I submitted an online application and was sent a link to a “talent assessment” trst. There were some job decision multiple choice questions, some strongly dislike—>strongly prefer work environment questions. There were sone completely ludicrous vocabulary analogies questions with I swear no right answers, and some are you more like this or this questions.

    Finally I got to a section that asked me to assess my current coworkers that included questions that required me to badmouth them. It was…uncomfortable and I felt gross answering them. Now I feel complicit in something ugly. I guess I could be over analyzing it.

    I can overlook the patently absurd vocabulary test; perhaps, somehow, it is a test that is actually judging me on something else (although I can’t imagine what). But the badmouthing coworkers? I don’t like that. It sort of spoils the application process for me. I have no expectations that this company will contact me so it is sort of a moot point, but I don’t think better of the company for including that.

    Is that fair? Do they know what kinds of questions these third-party talent assessment services pose to candidates? Is this something I should be less judgy about?

    1. Keyboard face*

      I’d say it’s barely a proper question to ask during a job interview, much less the online form

  74. Bwok bwok bwok*

    Does it damage my career in the long run if I choose to not fight my battles?
    (All names changed of course)
    Today, my boss Cersei wrote an angry e-mail, CC-ing co-worker Jon about, and I quote, “my excessive e-mailing to our partners”.
    Problem is, I need to e-mail all these people because we are organising a huge company event. Now, apparently, some of the partners have told her my e-mails were “weird” and “confusing”. What I find really strange is that none of these people have replied back to me seeking clarifications on my requests. If anything I felt I was doing okay, because they reply quite quickly. I tried to explain what my latest e-mail was, but only got the reply from Cersei as “Yeah, THAT’s the weird e-mail.”
    My corowker Jon agreed that didn’t make sense and wanted to send an angry e-mail defending me. I had told him that I appreciated the thought, but felt that he was already juggling hundreds of projects, I didn’t want to add “arguing with Cersei” onto his task list.
    However, when it comes to work place conflict, I always choose to apologise, even if later investigations proves that I had done the right thing. Would this just damage my career in the long run, as I get the reputation as the person who always messes up?

    1. Dr Wizard, PhD*

      I’d be concerned that Cersei is badmouthing you to those same partners. So I’d be less concerned at whether you should stand up to her (since you probably know that won’t work), and more how working for such a person could harm your career in the long run.

      1. Bwok bwok bwok*

        I had a feeling it might come to that. Me thinks I better start sending out some resumes.

        I really hate that the criticism, instead of being direct and constructive, is done via a game of Chinese whispers that a mysterious third party thinks my email is “weird”. Now I am paranoid about every letter I send, and have to reread them again and again to see if anything feels off. Considering how much letters my work needs me to send this becomes a highly ineffective way to work.

        1. Dr Wizard, PhD*

          I’d agree with the resumes, to be honest. Maybe reread the old post about how a toxic work environment can change your perception of what’s normal, also.

    2. Spider in a Meeting*

      You should probably bring it up with Cersi, in person. “hey boss, I need clarification on what is wrong/weird with the content and frequency of my emails…”

      1. Detective Amy Santiago*

        Agreed.

        “Is there a preferable way for me to contact Larry, Moe, & Curly about the upcoming event?”

    3. Close Bracket*

      “What I find really strange is that none of these people have replied back to me seeking clarifications on my requests.”

      It is strange, but it is also pretty typical. Just see the question several posts above yours about whether someone should give direct feedback to a person who doesn’t work for her or go to that person’s boss. Pretty much everybody said go to that person’s boss. And that’s what people do; they go to your boss. It took me a long, long time to learn this, so let me save you some time: nobody will ever tell you that you have messed up with them. They will tell your boss.

      So now what you can do is see whether you can work with your boss to find out exactly what the problem is. “Weird” is not an actionable complaint. Find out what they would like you to do differently.

      If your boss just sucks and would rather punish you then work with you, then I’m sorry.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      DO NOT DO THIS/ I’d want to send out a general email to all. “All, it has come to my attention that my emails are confusing in some manner. Please email me directly or call me directly and we can discuss the problem directly. I will be more than happy to talk with you about your concerns. We do need to stay on track as Event is [mandatory, a company requirement, whatever]. /DO NOT DO THIS.
      Personally, I am likin’ the overkill usage of the word, “directly”.

      If upper leadership cannot figure out how to get answers for their own email confusion they probably should not be in charge of leading people. We have to lead ourselves first and foremost.

    5. ..Kat..*

      Can you find a way to stop apologizing? Apologizing tends to mean you are taking the blame for causing problems, but if you are not the cause, you are shooting yourself in the foot. Don’t take the blame if it is not your fault.

  75. Bean and Tea*

    I know there were tweets or memes where people replaced what they wanted to say in an email versus what they professionally replied (“Per my last email” is office speak for “btch can you read”). I’m not a fan of “clap backs” but I do know that we can’t always say what we want to say :)

    How would you say “it’s not that serious/calm the f down”?

    Any other non-petty email stock phrases welcome!

    1. Dr Wizard, PhD*

      >“it’s not that serious/calm the f down”

      I’d say “This is being addressed internally / by [x person / team]”.

      1. raktajino*

        I agree with this route. In my office, anxiety over issues tends to crop up when someone feels like they’re the Cassandra. It helps when they can truthfully be told “you have been heard and understood.”

      1. Ama*

        Oh I use that one and “Thank you for your input,” a LOT with some of our expert volunteers when they are complaining about something that they have either been told previously can’t be changed or which is just them being nitpicky because they can.

    3. Wannabe Disney Princess*

      Depending on what it is, I use: “I’m working on this with the Llama Acrobatics Team. I’ll let you know when there’s an update/if there’s anything I need from you/that you need to know/etc.”

    4. Arjay*

      I asked someone who was complaining about something stupid, “Is this causing abrasion with our stakeholders? I haven’t received any feedback on that from clients.” Subtext being “This is perfectly clear to everyone important (lol), and I don’t plan to cater to your pet peeves.”

      1. froodle*

        Oooh I like this so much I actually physically snerked while reading it. May I steal?

    5. Not So NewReader*

      “Plan ABC would cover that concern.”
      “It’s been handled.”
      “That is why we did X and Y, as contingency.”

      Overall idea is to have a very flat sounding voice and stick to just facts. If we escalate with the Upset Person, their upset will only go higher. Writing tone, voice tone matter hugely in these instances. Be factual and be very brief.

  76. Quaggaquagga*

    I understand the importance of letting your manager/colleagues at a full-time job know if there are personal issues impacting your ability to work. However, I’m having some trouble figuring out what is appropriate in a contractor/freelance setting. I agreed to do some freelance work, but kind of dropped the ball on some deliverables. This is because I was having a pretty rotten couple of weeks (hospital visits to tend to sick relatives, plus having to attend multiple funerals). So I had reduced time to work, plus my head was definitely not where it needed to be to work effectively. Luckily things have worked out (both with the client and ill family relation), but I’m wondering if I should have mentioned this to the client upfront. I’ve never met them in person, and it just felt to me like a relationship that doesn’t have much room for personal info.

    1. ginkgo*

      It probably depends on the client, but when I hired freelancers, a lot of them would let me know when they had similar tough stuff going on in their lives that would cause a delay in the project (and I appreciated the heads up). We did have pretty friendly email-based relationships despite never having met, though!

  77. CurrentlyLooking*

    Applying for job without an area to add a cover letter

    When you apply for a job where there is no place to add a cover letter should you: leave off the cover letter or add it to you resume? And if you add it should it go first or last?

    I have been adding the cover letter to the end of my resume before uploading it – in case they don’t actually want the cover letter just the resume then they can just ignore it

    1. Washi*

      I think that’s the safest bet, especially if there’s stuff on your resume you want to be able to explain in a cover letter. I can’t imagine they would dock you for putting a cover letter at the end.

    2. T3k*

      Yeah, that’s usually what I do (attach it to resume). At worst, they’ll just ignore the letter, so it doesn’t hurt.

  78. Jascha*

    I’ve agreed to take on a work experience student for a week next month. (For context: we’re in the UK, the student is nearing the end of high school, and this is a fairly common thing. I work at a publishing company and the student is hoping to gain experience in writing and in our general operations.)

    Anyone who’s ever done this (either as a student or as a mentor): What advice do you have? What would be the most helpful things to do with the student, given that we only have one week? Is there anything you can think of that would have particularly benefited you during your experiences (or that you would particularly like if you were going to have such an experience)?

    I want to make sure the student gets as much as possible out of this (and I don’t want to waste either her time or mine if possible)!

    1. WellRed*

      Well, the closest experience I can offer is I had a 16-year-old job shadow me for one day when I was working as a reporter at a local weekly. I planned out the day in advance so there was a variety of the things she might do in a similar job. We checked public records at city hall for a case I was following, I introduced her to a local lawmaker I frequently was in contact with, we did an onsite interview and meet with photographer for another story and I think we even got called out on a small breaking news story, so we grabbed our notebooks and went and I had her take the photo, which we published.

    2. Tau*

      I wasn’t directly involved in our work experience student, but something the person who was supervising her did which seemed pretty cool was to set up interviews with a bunch of employees in different areas where they could tell her about what their job was, how they’d gotten there, what they enjoyed about it, etc. I covered the software developer area, and I heard from the mentor that the student had really enjoyed our conversation and was now interested in programming as a potential career. It struck me as something that I would’ve quite liked as a high school student, because you just don’t have much of an idea of what’s out there.

    3. Sparky*

      We have students come thru our workplace. Each student is here 3 weeks, which isn’t very long at all considering all the things we do.
      First: Go over with student what they expect and what you expect. Ask if there is anything in particular they want (or Don’t Want!) to get out of the experience. We also assign them a little project to work on and on their last day, they give a little presentation (10-15 minutes). Being able to speak in front of small groups is important in our role, so we want to expose them to that while they are here.
      Then – Overview of the entire operation, basic work flow how the roles interact and the importance of each role.
      For week 1, we have them shadow the ‘worker bees’, the mechanics of day to day processes. We have them do hand’s for some tasks so they get a feel for it. It’s easy to say – Yes, I can X,Y,Z. But when you actually Do it, it makes it more real and you realize there’s more to it than first appears.
      Week 2, we have them shadow the higher level people. Have them attend any meetings that they could learn from. Observe some of the interactions with our area and other areas and with the clients we serve.
      Week 3, more of week two, with a more dialogue about scenarios – obviously they’re not going to solve problems, but more of how would you approach this situation? What resources could you use? What are the limits of our role? How does the real world differ from ‘what you learned in school’ type things.
      The project thing serves several purposes- For one thing, they must know how to give professional talks once they graduate. It’s part of what we do. It also gives them something to work on in down times or if we are swamped and don’t have time to have them with us. It gives them a chance to explore a topic a little more in depth and it’s one thing to do a research paper for your teacher -it’s quite another to teach a bunch of people that have been out of school for awhile and are going to ask questions! It’s a great growing experience for them. Hope this helps!

  79. jack*

    not a question just something exciting that I can’t (yet) share with anyone at work: I applied for a promotion in LA today! I’m so excited and my boss and his boss have been super supportive and have helped me put my resume together (with some help from this site as well).

  80. Fake old Converse shoes (not in the US)*

    AAM readers, I need your advice!
    World Cup has started and my office has turned upside down. Flags, World Cup replicas, wigs, scarfs and all the related paraphernalia decorating every corner of the open plan floor. Even worse, a group here displayed six TVs in such a way that everyone has at least one of them in sight, each tuned to a different sports channel at max volume. Concentration it’s impossible, and I could barely work since yesterday. Considering I’m the only one who is uncomfortable with this setup, and my team not allowed to work from home, am I unreasonable in requesting a “World Cup free” zone?
    Any advice would be appreciated.

    1. jack*

      speaking as a sports fan who would KILL for this arrangement: absolutely not, I think you’re being completely reasonable. Low volume/silent at a minimum, and everything should be in the break room/empty conference room/something like that and not all over your work space.

      1. Tara S.*

        Yeah, at a minimum they should keep the games on mute. I know they are more fun with commentary, but you’re in an office, not a bar.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Six channels at max volume playing different things would drive me absolutely bonkers no matter what the content. I think you can absolutely address the distraction of that cacophony and ask for a quiet space.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      I totally agree with you that this is not doable. Do you have any vacation time to use up?

      But I know how these things go, it’s their office and their culture. It’s probably not going to change. Generally in these things our choices are adapt or leave.

      I just goggled to see how long it lasts, ONE FULL MONTH. June 14 through July 15. Boy, in my ideal world I’d be sitting at an exit interview saying, “You need to screen for World Cup lovers, someone who is not a sports person or a World Cup person would find this situation to be sheer torture. It’s not fair to the company or the new hire not to mention this before hiring.”

    4. Fake Old Converse Shoes (not in the US)*

      Thanks for your advice. I don’t think it’ll be possible to move the entire setup to the conference room, but at least I’ll try to find a setup that keeps everyone happy. Right now I’m more concerned that I’ll be dragged to watch the matches that take place during work hours, something that could be a massive trigger since I was harassed by my work tutor in a similar situation four years ago.

    5. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

      Geez. The sound would make me crazy. I would get some really obvious high vis earplugs or ear defenders until they agree to cut the noise down at the very least.

  81. Jane Victoria*

    My boss is going through some personal stuff right now, and has been less available than he usually is. This week, one of my peers (we’re deputy directors overseeing different departments) has been painting him in a really negative light, once to one of our stakeholders, once in meeting with several of our junior staff, saying things like “he’s MIA, he’s completely unresponsive and ignoring our emails, we have to be running everything…” It’s frustrating to be sure, but her behavior shocked me–she’s actively badmouthing our boss, rather than addressing her frustrations with him directly. I firmly believe that if you can’t say anything nice about your boss, you should say something neutral, like “we have not heard from him on X, and so in the interim, we will work on Y instead and I will make sure X is at the top of the priority list when he is available to provide input.” Should I address this with her? Or even with him? Or just make a note of it in case it comes up later? I don’t want him to think I’m gossiping, but nor do I want her to think I’m okay with this behavior, or for him to think she has his back, when it clearly seems like she doesn’t.

    1. Dr Wizard, PhD*

      I work in a culture where privately venting among peers is fairly normal, but it would definitely not be okay to do so to external people or in front of junior staff that person manages. Would it be useful to focus on that part of it rather than the venting/complaining in general, from a practical perspective?

    2. Reba*

      Yikes. What is your relationship with her like?

      You might try something like, “I was surprised by what you said about Boss in front of VIP the other day.” Then see what she says. “It just didn’t seem appropriate to be airing frustrations like that when we should be trying to focus on Whatever with Client.”

      That’s all you need to say, I think, not really to get into defending your Boss or discussing the issues as such but simply to let her know that it’s not a good look.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      I don’t know many people who do not badmouth their boss. It seems pretty normal to me.

      I used to believe in not bad mouthing a boss. That caused more problems for me than it solved. I now shoot for reality based. Each boss has their strengths and their shortcomings, just like us. I’d say let it go.

      Your last sentence seems to indicate that you worry a lot about what other people think. Try to let go of some of that worry. Let people sort out their own relationships with each other. It’s not up to us to do maintenance work on their relationships. If your boss is not letting people know where he is that is on him. It’s not up to you to cover that.

  82. Washi*

    Question about skills tests for hiring: I prefer to have any kind of exercise/test done at the actual interview, because those tend to be less demanding of my time. My friend prefers take-homes, because she has a lot of performance anxiety.

    What do you think is more effective and also respectful of candidates?

    1. Dr Wizard, PhD*

      At the interview for me, because I’d stress more and for a longer period with a take-home exam.

      In government hiring in my country they split the difference: you do the test at home on initial assessment (and are ranked based on that), and if you get to the next stage they ask you to do a similar test under exam conditions. That one doesn’t change the rankings, it’s just to weed out obvious cheaters in cases where scores differ *drastically*.

    2. Flinty*

      I find it hard to know if I’m comparing apples to apples with take-home exercises. If I recommend that candidates only spend an hour on it, but then one is dramatically better than the other, is it because that candidate is dramatically better or because they spent 5 hours on it? I feel like I get more useful information from having candidates do their exercises in the interview, but I hadn’t thought about the effect that would have on someone with anxiety.

      1. self employed*

        I agree on the apples to apples. And people still need to perform on-demand in the office, so I don’t think it’s a big concern.

    3. ToodieCat*

      I hired a tech writer a while back based on the interview, references, and writing samples he included with his application materials. Big mistake. His writing samples were clear and crisp and clean and wonderful. During training, though, I told him that a sentence was missing its verb and he gave me deer-in-headlights.

      The next tech writer will have an in-house writing test.

    4. Short & Dumpy*

      Do them there at a set time. No matter what amount of time I’m told I should spend on it, I will spend every spare second I have outside of work to try to make it PERFECT. I know I shouldn’t, but what if I don’t & everyone else does?

  83. ExcitedAndTerrified*

    I was helping a patron to put together a resume earlier this week, and they had an interesting question that I was curious to hear others answer to.

    Does a position where you began as a volunteer and were eventually given a stipend get listed on a resume the same as other employment?

    1. Tara S.*

      I think it could! Just shortly differentiate, something like “Volunteer Dec 17-Feb 18, Llama Wrangler March 18-Present” under the company name.

    2. Spider in a Meeting*

      I feel like you can list significant volunteer experience on a resume regardless, and if it turned into a stipend situation, then it sounds significant. Maybe just delineate some how that you were a volunteer and then part time (did a title change occur?).

  84. The Intern*

    Hi, all!

    A couple of open-threads back I posted about an interview for my dream internship. I am happy to say the internship is mine and I start next month! :)

    AAM and the commentariat were big influences and part of the reason why I aced my interview. Thank you! <3

  85. Junior Dev*

    I’m about to have two new co-workers. My team is expanding. We already have two group lunches planned and my boss and I have been working on on boarding materials (the team I’m on was a one-person operation for several years until I was hired in January so this stuff didn’t exist before). Any ideas on how else I can make them feel welcome?

    1. Susan Sto Helit*

      Introduce them to everyone, in person – then give them a seating chart with everyone’s names on it that they can refer back to while they’re still learning. You wouldn’t believe how many new starters we have who don’t get properly introduced to everyone, and after a certain point it becomes awkward having to admit you don’t actually know who everyone is.

      Adding information on what everyone’s job titles/responsibilities are can also be very helpful.

    2. Spider in a Meeting*

      Make sure they have all the basic desk/office supplies they need when they start, and fill them in on any coffee/breakroom/snack situations that may be unique to your office.

    3. Neosmom*

      Make sure they have some “meaningful work” to do as soon as possible. Coming in brand new and contributing right away is so good for newbie morale!

    4. Daughter of Ada and Grace*

      Make sure their computers and login credentials are ready for them. (Yes, I’ve been on the wrong side of this one.)

      Do you have anything planned to introduce them to the other teams, especially ones you work closely with? I am personally fond of seeing how my work fits in with the rest of the business.

  86. Rosemary7391*

    I’m thinking about upping sticks to the USA for work – I’m in the UK currently. I’m a bit concerned about healthcare – it’s so very different from the NHS that I’m not really sure where to start. Does anyone know of a good resource that explains US healthcare from scratch, especially how it differs between employed and unemployed?

    I also don’t drive currently. I know the US is very keen on cars… will I be significantly hampered by not driving? Do people ask about cycle facilities at workplaces? Any cities that have particularly functional public transport? I don’t really want to live in a flat either which limits me somewhat I know.

    I’d appreciate any job hunting tips too – I know my CV needs to be a bit shorter than my UK one for instance. I’ll be looking at entry level software development jobs. Thanks!

    1. Washi*

      I’ve lived on the East Coast all my life and didn’t drive for many years – cities here tend to be relatively transit-friendly, though it will cost more to live near transit hubs. DC might be good if you don’t want to live in an apartment but are ok with roommates – it’s mainly rowhouses outside of the downtown core, and it’s very common to share. Or if you make good money, you could probably afford your own :) For cycling, bikeleagueDOTorg/bfa/awards has a database of information on different cities. We’re not Europe yet, but biking to work is not super out of the norm in cities.

      Curious if other people have healthcare resources – I feel like I don’t understand my own country’s system!

      1. Rosemary7391*

        Thanks :) I’ll have a look. Rowhouses – I guess what I’d call a terrace – are a step up on flats but not keen on the sharing. Will definitely check what I can afford before committing! (Which gives me another question, taxes/other deductions… I’ll leave that for now though!) I’ll check out the cycling link!

        1. Natalie*

          There are places in the US with great public transportation, and there are places in the US with lots of affordable detached houses. But those are generally not the same places. In order to take advantage of the good public transportation, you generally have to be in the urban core of a city which means flats/apartments. If you want the detached house, you’re talking about the residential parts of the city or the suburbs, and that typically means driving.

          1. Washi*

            Yeah wanting detached house+affordability+transit+tech jobs = unfortunately not super likely in any one place!

    2. OlympiasEpiriot*

      You know, Toronto has a lot of job growth in software development. That’s Canada. Not the US.

      As a US-born and bred person whose family has been here for a really long time, I do NOT recommend coming here (for lots of reasons) without some very good, specific reason that absolutely cannot be matched elsewhere.

      Your concern about the health insurance is real and huge. I recommend Canada. You’ll still have to get a drivers license, but, at least the heath insurance issue will be less stressful.

      2. Rosemary7391*

        Thanks! I will have a quick look at Canada, but I’m a dual national UK/US with about half the family in Seattle, so mainly thinking about the US for that reason. Although all of Canada is still closer to them than the UK! I also have family in the UK of course. And Australia. I’m never getting near all of them…

        1. OlympiasEpiriot*

          Yeah, if there’s family, I can see why you’ve put it on your list. But, there was just an article floating around about how the growth in Toronto tech is bigger (rate) than in any other tech center. I think they compared Silicon Valley, New York City, Atlanta, and Toronto as well as Seattle.

          It isn’t my field, so I didn’t pay close attention to the details. More like a “huh, that’s interesting”.

        2. Even Steven*

          I’m a Canadian in Seattle and regret moving here 20 years ago. Rents are 50% higher than they were 5 years ago, traffic congestion is intense and health care? Yikes. My ‘fancy’ employer-sponsored health insurance has an annual $7800 (not a typo) out-of pocket limit before it covers ANYTHING. Oh, and I’m 50, so that insurance costs $575 per month. I am working hard to move back to Canada because this is ridiculous.

          Maybe consider Victoria, British Columbia? Similar climate to the UK, and while costs are rising there too, it’s not as costly as Vancouver. I grew up in Toronto. Brutal hot summers and very cold & long winters. British Columbia is the place to be – health care AND moderate weather. just my 2 cents. Good luck with your search!

    3. A Nickname for AAM*

      If you move to a big city with a decent mass transit network, you will be fine not driving, especially if you carefully plan where you live to line up with the transit lines you need to get to work and live your life, ex: the grocery store. Apps like Uber and Lyft are good fill-ins, too.

      If you’re in healthcare, a lot of major hospitals are affiliated with large university networks and tend to run their own shuttle systems between key transit lines and key points on their campus, so those might be good employers to seek out.

      Good luck!

      1. Rosemary7391*

        Thanks! Yeah, I’m used to planning around transport; hence why I’ve ended up in a flat here and decided flats are Not Fun. I do walk a lot, but that’s harder in the US. I need to check the transport carefully; I was all up for taking a train into the centre of Seattle from a suburb on my last visit, but it looked like the train only ran 3 times a day and you had to get there stupid times in advance…

    4. lisalee*

      In the US this stuff is very location-dependent. Big cities out east will have great transit (DC, Chicago, Minneapolis, NYC). Smaller cities and out west have worse transit (LA being particularly bad). If you do not want to live in an apartment/flat, you will probably need a car.

      I would be extremely leery of US healthcare right now. The brief version is that here you must pay the full cost of your medical care unless you have health insurance that covers it. Not all health insurance is the same either. You will still likely pay a portion of the cost of your care, and likely the full cost until you hit a certain dollar amount per year (the deductible). You can also be charged a higher monthly fee for insurance if you have a medical condition, and insurance plans do not cover all doctors or all hospitals, even in emergencies.

      The ACA (our law that allows people to purchase health insurance without jobs, essentially) varies a lot state to state. In some places, you can get a decent policy, and in some places you will be paying thousands of dollars for worthless insurance. Our current government is also making moves to do away with protection for preexisting conditions, so if you have any kind of health condition you may not be able to get insurance at all on your own. I would 100% not move here unless you have a job that will give you health insurance.

      1. KayEss*

        Note that “great” public transit by US standards would probably be considered mediocre at best in Europe. I live in the Chicago area and have never heard anyone call our transit system “great.”

        1. lisalee*

          Very true. I guess by “great” I mean “will generally get you where you need to go.” :P Low standards.

      2. Rosemary7391*

        Thanks! I was hoping to be out west :( bah. I know I’d probably want a car eventually, but I kinda need the job before I can afford driving lessons.

        How does health insurance cost thousands of dollars and not cover everything? I just double checked; NHS budget is just north of £2k per person per year.

        Preexisting conditions thing is definitely a concern – I’ve seen some really unpleasant stories about that with pet insurance over here. I’m healthy now (except for my weight but it doesn’t currently cause any issue – do they check that sort of thing and charge more?), but I’m not sure I’m willing to bet my health and financial stability on not getting ill and being fired. I’m not sure I want to ask how you deal with emergencies – do you carry your health insurance info around so they can take you to the “right” hospital or something!?

        1. Natalie*

          If you are getting insurance through your employer, pre-existing conditions aren’t an issue and won’t be even if the current administration makes a bunch of changes to the ACA. Employer provided insurance is largely regulated by a completely different law (ERISA, also a few HIPAA regulations), so it is largely not affected by ACA changes.

          An employer cannot charge employees different amounts for any reason except age, and the latter isn’t commonly done in my experience. They also can’t deny coverage to any employee who would otherwise qualify. So, for example, you could decide to only offer coverage to full time employees and not part time, but you can’t decide that Jim doesn’t get to enroll in the health coverage because of his expensive health condition. Before ACA, you could have a waiting period for pre-existing conditions, so you’d have to pay out of pocket for all of your asthma coverage for six months, but everything else would be covered. If the ACA is repealed, that will come into affect again.

          Marketplace coverage (that is, any coverage not provided by an employer) is presently regulated by ACA and has to provide minimum essential coverages and cannot take pre-existing conditions into account. However, the ACA is somewhat vulnerable in various ways, so if this could change.

          When people lose their jobs, there is an expensive continuation option called COBRA (holy acronyms Batman) but most people do not sign up for it unless they have a specific expensive issue that needs coverage. You either find a new job with health insurance, buy insurance on the marketplace, or go without.

          In-network/out-of-network only matters for routine visits, scheduled surgeries, etc. For an emergency, you’ll generally be brought to the closest emergency room (accident & emergency). You do typically get a little card to carry in your wallet, but that’s just to make things easier for the billing department. You’d be treated in an emergency whether or not you had your card with you.

        2. lisalee*

          The Pacific Northwest has nice transit (I’ve heard great things about Seattle!) but if you’re set on not driving I would try to avoid California.

          So here the actual medical costs are much higher because everything is profit driven. For example, insulin here is hundreds of dollars per dose, while in Canada it’s around $50. I have a friend with Type 1 diabetes, and for example, she has to pay $1,800 per month for her insulin. And because she’s diabetic, she can only get an insurance plan with a $10,000 deductible (she buys insurance through the ACA exchange, not her employer) so she has to pay the full cost of the insulin until she hits $10,000. Every year. That’s on top of the monthly cost of her insurance. Even after the deductible, she pays a small portion of the cost of everything (10%–this is called a copay).

          Her insurance is fairly bad because of her preexisting condition and employment situation, but I would factor several thousand dollars of medical costs/insurance premiums into any salary offer you get.

          I do carry my insurance card with me, but in an emergency there is no guarantee you will go to the “right” hospital. Even individual doctors at the same hospital may or may not be covered. If you have good insurance, they will still pay for non-covered doctors in an emergency, but if you have bad insurance, you could rack up thousands in bills.

          1. Natalie*

            I don’t know what’s going on with your friends insurance but this is not a marketplace plan. The individual deductible is capped at $7,350 and preexisting conditions can’t affect your coverage. If they’re on a grandfathered plan they should really consider shopping around again.

        3. Thursday Next*

          In an honest-to-goodness emergency, they treat you first, and deal with payment later. We’ve had health issues while traveling, and insurance has been fine with covering the costs even though it wasn’t our in-network hospital. That’s more of an issue for elective/planned procedures.

          lisalee explained it well above, but just to add, in many workplaces that provide insurance, the employer pays a portion of the premium, and the employee is responsible for the rest. The amount varies widely, and I mean *widely*.

          Then when you go to a doctor, if that doctor accepts your particular insurance (there are many), you will be responsible for a co-pay. Again, co-pay amounts vary widely; I’ve seen everything from 0 to $50. There are co-pays for prescription medicine. If you need tests done, that costs extra. Then there’s the whole issue of deductibles.

          I will not shock you with my family’s annual medical expenditures. :-) Suffice it to say, there is a reason why medical bills push people into bankruptcy in the U.S.

    5. Inspector Spacetime*

      Like everyone else is saying, if you live and work in a major city with public transportation you should be fine without driving. Everywhere else, though, you’d need a car.

      Healthcare here sucks! It’s also very confusing. Hopefully someone else can chime in with more details, because I don’t really get it myself.

    6. EB*

      As far as car-less living goes– it’s definitely becoming more possible in mid-size cities throughout the country and I’ve done it. If it’s possible for your industry, small cities with large colleges will typically have bus options, bike shares, car shares and other ways to get around like Lyft/Uber. It would also be possible to rent a home and still connect to public transit in a mid-size city. If you plan to cycle to work there are some great resources online of the most bicycle-friendly cities in the U.S.– there are plenty of mid-size options on those lists, typically!

      To REALLY oversimplify healthcare– the biggest considerations are going to be the network and your deductible (this is IMO based on my experience with a bunch of “pre-existing” conditions). If, say, you need to see a certain specialist at a certain hospital, you’ll want to verify that your potential insurance is in-network with that doctor.

      The deductible is the amount you pay each year for services before insurance starts paying for it– in my area $500 is considered a good deductible. But it’s a minefield out there– some insurance plans have deductibles as high as $6,000+ per year! As you search, HR at potential employers will be able to walk you through their insurance offerings, my organization has several options for different budgets.

      Co-pays for doctor’s visits and drugs will also have a big impact on your budget. For instance, I pay $30 to see specialists each visit, a friend of mine pays $50– a difference that can add up!

      1. Rosemary7391*

        Thanks for your comment!

        I … $6000. A year. Seriously. And that’s WITH insurance!?

        I know I’d likely not end up spending that… but if I buy insurance, turn up in the US, get run over by a bus and have to sell my flat in the UK to cover the bill before I’ve even applied for a job I’ll be a bit miffed. That’s not what insurance is about!

    7. LadyKelvin*

      I haven’t seen anyone else mention the difference between health insurance when you are employed vs health insurance when you aren’t so here’s the simplest explanation:
      If you have a job, it might offer health insurance. You’ll pay ~50% (on average) of the cost, and your employer will pay the rest. Then there are lots of other possibilities of deductible (how much you pay for going to the doctor before your health insurance kicks in, can be in the $1000s) plus copays (how much you pay to see a doctor if its covered by insurance), etc.

      If you aren’t employed you don’t get health insurance. With the ACA you will have to buy it on the open market but since in 2019 the individual mandate will no longer be in effect you won’t have to buy it on the open market and you can just not have health insurance and pay for everything out of pocket. That’s why people go bankrupt from medical bills: get sick, lose job, lose insurance, need doctor’s care to stay alive, owe $100,000s in medical bills, file for bankruptcy.

      1. Rosemary7391*

        Thanks for your comment. That does seem like an inefficient way of doing it – bankruptcy is the “insurer of last resort” then? But hospitals must lose so much money on administering the system and not getting paid?

        1. Frustrated*

          Indeed. In the end, it comes out of the pockets of those paying for insurance or care (a mix of individuals, employers, and insurers), with increased costs having to be passed on to customers to cover what I can only imagine is classified as “overhead” due to unpaid bills. The insurance companies certainly aren’t going bankrupt, and neither are hospitals in urban areas, which means they are recouping the losses somehow. (Rural areas do take the hit, and then there are no hospitals to serve those people.) So, really, it’s us and our employers who are paying for it in various ways… but because it’s a fuzzy, curvy line, people seem to able to ignore that what is not being paid for by taxes (from all) IS being indirectly paid by the subset of insured people.

          1. Not So NewReader*

            This.
            And this is why if you have a choice of insurance pools to join and cannot figure out which one, check out the one with the most insureds. More people spread out the load and probably pay less than the insured group with less people.

    8. blue canary*

      In the US, healthcare is primarily provided by the employer, but even this varies widely. My current job pays for my premiums – aka monthly payments to keep your coverage – but other places might not. If you’re accepting a job that offers insurance, be sure to look carefully at the benefits package to determine how much will actually be coming out of your pocket. Those things include: premiums, copays (a usually small out-of-pocket charge for services like doctor visits or prescriptions), deductibles (the amount of money you will have to pay out of your own pocket before the insurance covers 100%, these can be in the thousands of dollars). It’s extremely confusing but I’m sure Google will provide some primers for you. Another good thing about employer-provided care is that you don’t have to worry about pre-existing conditions, and you can’t be dropped from coverage for some reason.

      If your employer doesn’t provide care, you can still buy plans privately. For now, the national insurance marketplace is still in existence at http://www.healthcare.gov. Plans and costs vary from state to state. There’s also bare-bones options that cost less per month but don’t offer as much coverage and are really only good if you’re healthy, as you can’t get coverage for pre-existing conditions.

      I have to say, you are in for a rude awakening in dealing with US insurance. Compared to the NHS (which I loved) it’s a nightmare.

      1. Natalie*

        There’s also bare-bones options that cost less per month but don’t offer as much coverage and are really only good if you’re healthy, as you can’t get coverage for pre-existing conditions.

        I don’t think these are around anymore – the ACA rules about minimum essential coverage and pre-existing conditions are still in effect. The only thing that has changed so far is that the tax penalty for having coverage is gone, so functionally the requirement to have coverage has been rescinded. Although who know what will happen in the future.

    9. Gaia*

      I can talk about healthcare in the US. Essentially there are a few categories

      Employer sponsored: you get this through your work. It is nearly unheard of for professional roles to not be offered healthcare although the quality and cost varies widely. You pay a percentage of the cost and your employer pays the rest. Anything you pay is automatically deducted through your pay and is pre-tax. Based on the plan, you will then pay a certain amount for specific services. Some services (deemed preventative like a yearly checkup, birth control, some cancer screenings, etc) are at no cost to you.

      Individual Plan through State/Federal Exchange: If your employer doesn’t offer insurance or you are unemployed you can purchase a plan through your state (or federal if your state doesn’t have one) insurance exchange. It is basically a website where you can compare costs and coverage. You will be responsible for the full cost (although there is some tax benefits in some cases). Based on the plan, you will then pay a certain amount for specific services. Some services (deemed preventative like a yearly checkup, birth control, some cancer screenings, etc) are at no cost to you.

      Technically, everyone is mandated to have insurance. There are fees if you don’t but they aren’t really enforced and there’s been talk of getting rid of this mandate.

      Insurance is expensive here. My company pays around $400 a month for my coverage (although my coverage is very good). I am very lucky because I only pay $15 of that. As an individual, it would not be unheard of to have a premium cost of around $100-150 a month for moderate coverage. If you don’t have insurance, doctors do not need to accept you as a patient (although emergency rooms do need to treat you and stabilize you – but they will bill you and you will be horrified at how expensive they are).

      1. Natalie*

        The penalty for not having coverage has been rescinded, it was part of the big tax overhaul.

      2. Rosemary7391*

        Thanks for your comment :)

        I’m not sure what I think about all this. If you’re really ill, could you just end up in and out of the emergency room without anyone ever fixing the problem? That sounds horrible :( I understand that emergency treatment is expensive, way more so than normal, which makes sense given the nature of it. Maybe this explains part of why I’m flopping over at the prices being talked about vs the average NHS spend per person? Although it looks like there are more preventative options in the US if you have the right insurance – I don’t get a yearly check up but I do get the rest of the preventative stuff.

        1. Gaia*

          Yes that is exactly what could (and often does) happen. The number one cause for bankruptcy in America is medical bills. A single visit to the ER for something minor can easily be well in excess of $5,000 without insurance. God forbid you need tests.

          We have great healthcare in the US, if you can afford it. The problem is that so many people cannot.

      3. Fiennes*

        As a self-employed person who got private insurance pre-ACA, I pay $430 a month. No dependents. Just me. I have no significant pre-existing conditions and relatively good health.

        1. Gaia*

          Yep. Definitely not unheard of. In most areas there are plans that are significantly less (although still very expensive) but you aren’t alone in paying a small fortune.

          1. Too much sick time*

            Yeah, I pay $260/month for my ACA plan in an HMO, with a small deductible — though my copays for visits and meds are fairly high, it still works out ok for me. I’ve heard so many horror stories, though.

    10. jleebeane*

      http://britishexpats.com/ is the best resource I know for emigrating from the UK to the US. It was invaluable when we were applying for my husband’s K-1 visa. The articles are good, but the forums are great. In additional the generally helpful community, there are a few really active moderators who are very knowledgeable and happy to share.

      (And I’ll plug the Boston area as an option for you to consider relocating to!)

    11. Nacho*

      Generally any kind of work you’d be willing to move from another country to get will have health care provided as part of its benefits package. Software development, even entry level, is sure to have it. That’s one of the big reasons we don’t have NHS: A lot of us get it from our work instead, so we don’t need it. If you’re not unemployed or you’re underemployed, each state has a healthcare exchange you can buy into, though that’s a little more complicated, and you’d want to check https://www.healthcare.gov/ for more information on those.

      Without a car, your choice of cities will be limited. Some cities (particularly rural ones) are huge, and a car is an absolute necessity. If you live in an urban city though. like either coast, there’s usually a decent bus route and bike-friendly city planning. I live in Seattle and haven’t owned a car for over a year because my condo’s right on the bus line.

    12. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

      Just to keep in mind and cart before horse here – securing a work visa will be necessary unless you also have citizenship? That will be done through the employer so while you have a good background to at least get a look in, it could take awhile to land something that will allow you to move.

      I would suggest checking out the britishexpats.com forum for info, particularly on the differences of the US system vs the NHS and all other questions you have above.

      1. Rosemary7391*

        Should’ve mentioned – I do have citizenship :) I’m definitely thinking I’d want to land an offer before going now though.

        1. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

          Oh yeah, then I would definitely bail and give it a try at the very least, but would state clearly upfront on your resume that you are a US citizen and do not need sponsorship. It will still be difficult but I am willing to bet you will get a more fair shake from US employers despite having a non-US background than you would the other way round.

          Don’t let the health care issue put you off either – it works out in the end and the preventative care is much better. You will also likely have a far higher salary anyway to offset some of the costs. Frankly, after being in both systems I find myself preferring the US model – mostly because I have very poor GP choices around me at the moment and can’t just decide to go to another surgery somewhere else in the city that could be better. I not saying the US system is cost effective or perfect, as it isnt, but rather than being geographically limited to choices you are limited to healthcare system choices of your employer (usually).

          Finally, if you can handle the winters, Minneapolis St Paul could be an option as there is a large network of bike paths through the city, light rail, and a decent-enough bus system to get you where you need to be. Learning to drive and getting a car would give you a LOT more freedom in the US, though, to apply for other jobs or move to different parts of town.

    13. Daughter of Ada and Grace*

      Since you don’t drive, I’d rule out most of the midwest/great plains area. For instance, if the public transit in the greater Cincinnati, Ohio area was terrible, it would be an improvement.

      One exception might be college towns – there may be fewer jobs, but since college students are less likely to have cars (or to have unreliable cars they don’t drive often), but you may find they have a lot more available in walking/cycling distance. The downside is that housing is also going to be targeted at either college students (apartments or shared houses, maintenance at the discretion of the landlord) or their professors (nicer houses, but a lot more expensive, possibly subsidized by the professor’s spouse).

    14. Frustrated*

      It looks like you have a lot of good resources already shared. Weighing in on the health care front — the system is pretty effed up at the moment. The ACA has been so fundamentally gutted (but not replaced with something coherent) in the past year, that I would argue that it IS actually a different health care law which is far more dysfunctional than the ACA ever was (which was itself imperfect). Basic economics and understanding of how any insurance functions seem to escape many of us.

      As others have said, if you are employed by an employer that provides health insurance, you’re cushioned from (but not immune to) the effed up system. The larger the employer, the more negotiating power they have with insurance companies, and (usually?) the better the pricing is for employees. But prices for employers have been increasing too. And some employers are not generous and offer expensive, crappy coverage, and they make the employees pay the lion’s share.

      On the individual market, there are “Marketplace Plans” and there are plans that you simply buy as an individual from insurers. They are often identical in coverage, but there is some sort of technical difference. And sometimes there are plans available to individuals that aren’t available on the exchange. (I had a health care broker help me.) Where I am, we have 2 insurers still selling individual plans. (The number of insurers in an area matters. It’s economics. Competition pushes prices down.) My plan (not bare bones, not Cadillac) costs $4000 per year. (Not including dental or vision.) Premiums are considered “pre-tax” money in the US, so when income tax time rolls around, I don’t have to pay taxes on that $4k of my income. (But that is also true for your share of employer-sponsored plans.)

      Insurance premiums aren’t your only consideration (employee or self-insured). You also pay a share of services received. My co-pays have been increasing, as has my co-insurance share. I think it’s at $40 for a visit to my primary care; $50 for a specialist; $40 for physical therapy type stuff. Co-pays on drugs depend on the prescription. I think you mentioned asthma; most of the inhalers are quite pricey because the companies recently reformulated the propellant, which created a new patent, which means no generic (cheap) alternatives for another few years. My share for an inhaler I was taking a while back was, I think, well over $100 a month. If you have more than an office visit (a test, an X-Ray, etc.), you get a bill for your share of the service, based on your coverage. That actual number has always been a mystery to me until the bill arrives, because they do complicated math between the hospital and insurer to come up with the “charged amount” and then applying what is your share of that.

    15. Ron McDon*

      WRT insurance – can you buy UK travel insurance to tide you over for a while?

      I’ve bought an annual travel insurance policy which covers me and my family whilst we’re in the US (we tend to holiday in the US each summer), and iirc it says something like as long as we return to the UK every 90 days we’re covered for the year. So I wonder if that would be an option for your initial 3 months – a policy to cover all of us was only around £50.

      1. AcademiaNut*

        I’d be very careful about the fine print if you try that option. It may be invalid if you’re working, for example. It also may not cover US citizens. I wouldn’t be surprised if they carefully blocked any loopholes that would allow it to cover insurance for an American citizen living in the US.

    16. Ashk434*

      I would advise you to stay in the UK for many reasons, but especially bc of the healthcare. The US feels like it’s a dumpster fire right now

      1. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

        Trust me, the UK is closer to a tire fire. We are waiting to see what fun and games the UK government comes up with for our visa status, and we’ve been waiting for over two years now. Can we stay? How much paperwork will they want? What sort of ‘gotcha!’ is the Home Office going to pull on me? How messed up will the economy be in March and beyond? Will there be food? I am actually putting up a reserve of canned goods and beans just in case the ports don’t open or the borders are a mess when Brexit happens, I have that little faith in the government.

        1. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

          Yeah they’re both pretty awful. I’m a dual citizen too and although the UK is slightly better I really wish we’d looked more seriously at moving to Germany or France a few years ago. Of course all of Europe feels like it’s on the verge of something very ugly anyway…

    17. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

      I haven’t lived there for 20 years but you might also look at Denver. The last time I visited a few years ago I was amazed at how much the public transportation has improved. Nothing like London or New York but perhaps getting close to Glasgow or Newcastle.

      Plus Colorado has excellent weather most of the year.

  87. Sal*

    Hi all–coworker and I are trying to figure out whether to say something to a summer intern about his vape. Context is that coworker and I are the intern supervisors in a tiny office with a high-level big boss; part of the job is indoctrinating the interns into the professional norms of our field (they are in professional school). One intern has taken to leaving his vape out (charging, I guess?) on the conference table where the interns sit (my coworker and I are all in an open space with that conference table; big boss has his own office but frequently comes out to talk to us/interns/use the kitchen etc.). He has also refilled it (with…I have no idea, I do not vape, I am old. We’ve been calling it “vape juice” over office e-chat) but not in front of big boss. He does not vape in the office. Vape is black and blocky and calls to mind a breathalyzer; it’s not e-cig-looking. I wouldn’t care but I think it could take big boss aback and affect big boss’s opinion of intern. (Conservative industry.)

    A) Is this inappropriate? Or just suboptimal? Or is it fine? My brother (also in this profession) says it’s not weird. I think it wouldn’t be professional to leave your cigarettes on the table. But my husband agrees more with my brother and says that were it not for the association vapes have with illicit drugs as well as tobacco, he would find it totally fine. (I’m trying to discern why I find it closer to cigarettes on the table than a bottle of Motrin on the table. Some weird puritan impulse, almost certainly.)
    B) Should one of us talk to the intern? We had resolved that if it was a one-off, we would not discuss it, but it’s now been out on the conference table for the third time this week.

    1. Lemon Zinger*

      It’s not fine if you’re in a conservative industry. Vapes are just like cigarettes in this instance. They should be out of sight.

    2. Former Retail Manager*

      Your post made me laugh. My husband vapes and works at a vape store. The big, black blocky thing is called a “mod” and you can call what he fills it with “juice.” “vape juice” or “e-juice.” I don’t vape and had to ask these same questions. What is this stuff?

      For your question, I personally wouldn’t consider it any worse than leaving one’s cell phone on the charger, assuming that is considered acceptable in your work environment. The devices are battery powered but do need to be charged. My husband charges his overnight at home though. As long as he isn’t vaping indoors, I’d leave it alone. However, if the intern does good work and might have a chance of being hired by the company (meaning that big boss’ impression might matter at some point) I might give him a casual heads up to maybe charge at home and keep it in his work bag or pocket.

      Also, really not sure what the statement is about the connection to illegal drugs. It’s true that you can now get liquefied meth and cannabis and you could technically vape them without the average person noticing, but it’s very highly unlikely that your intern is doing this. In fact, very few people do this. When I see someone who vapes, I think former smoker who is trying to make a positive change/trendy hipster.

      1. Sal*

        I’m 95% sure it’s the former-smoker thing. Which is great and admirable! And I do not want to squash at all. There is no part of me that thinks this intern is putting weed or meth (! wow, truly, the world is a rich tapestry) in his vape.

        I doubt the intern would be hired for structural reasons, but he likely would list big-boss as a reference, so I guess that would be the most tangible way this could affect him.

        1. Former Retail Manager*

          Ahhh, yes. If big boss is going to give the reference, I’d give the guy a heads up since you’re in a conservative industry. Better safe than sorry.

    3. AnonGD*

      As someone that manages interns– do you have any other rules about things that can be displayed/out during the day? Is being neat and tidy generally prized? I’ve definitely told interns in the past to tidy up their work areas if they were getting out of line for our office. That’s one way to come at it if you want to avoid debating whether a vape is culturally appropriate.

      FWIW I work in a very casual office (think inappropriate conversations, swearing, questionable dress). But people are oddly picky about tidy desks and I just know any kind of vaping (uh, devices?) would not be okay in my office, either.

      1. Sal*

        Workspace is otherwise almost shockingly immaculate, which actually makes the vape more noticeable.

    4. Arjay*

      If they sit at a conference table, where do they generally keep their stuff? If their isn’t appropriate storage, I’m not sure how many options he has.

  88. smoke tree*

    How much does charm count for in interviews? I’ve been thinking about this lately since a friend of mine recently got a new job, and I reflected that since I’ve known her she’s always gotten any job she interviews for. I can’t help but think this has something to do with the fact that she’s a very funny, warm, easy to get along with person, and is very good at projecting confidence. She’s told me that she always tries to make her interviewers laugh as much as possible.

    As for me, I wouldn’t say that I’m totally lacking in charm, but I’m not on the same plane as my friend. I don’t particularly want to be, because it’s not who I am. I also prefer to approach interviews as Alison suggests, as a two-way conversation, and I think my friend focuses more on impressing the interviewer. So it’s not that I’m trying to learn to be better at schmoozing with interviewers, I’m just curious about how much of a factor it is. What is everyone else’s experience?

    1. Spider in a Meeting*

      Just the other day I was told *by the interviewer* that I needed to be more gregarious. I’m not not a gregarious person naturally, I can be, it just depends on the situation and this woman was a super high exec and pretty intimidating, plus its an interview, they’re always kind of awkward. I got through to the next round despite how I initially came across, but it apparently mattered for her.

      1. Inspector Spacetime*

        I always fake being gregarious and engaged in interviews, even though that’s not my natural personality. :/ It might be a bit of a bait and switch, but I am super friendly once I get to know people, so this just smooths the process of the interview with strangers.

    2. T3k*

      It varies. When I was talking to others in the same position as me, one told me how he read the interviewer and could feel the woman was looking more for how he’d fit in with the culture (pretty relaxed) so he switched his focus to “make them laugh” in that scenario and that appeared to work. Myself? I don’t try to make people laugh, but it I do, bonus. Instead, I aim to be nice and inviting, like I’m talking to a friend (but not a close one) so a joke or a funny moment may slip in or not.

    3. Anon for this one*

      For me when I am interviewing, charm does not matter nearly as much as passion. If I can tell someone really wants the job and really cares about the work we do here (local gov’t), I am more receptive to them. If someone seems indifferent to the issues but is really charming, it actually puts me off.

    4. Susan K*

      I think it depends a lot on the skill of the interviewer. Someone who sucks at interviewing is probably going to be more susceptible to charm. An interviewer who doesn’t have a clear idea of what she wants in an employee, and who doesn’t ask good questions that will reveal those skills and qualities, will probably go with more of a gut feeling of whether she likes the candidate (or the “airport test” — whether she would be ok with getting stuck at the airport all day with the candidate). In that situation, charm can go a long way. A good interviewer will put more weight on the candidate’s qualifications, and perhaps devise an exercise to allow her to see the candidate’s skills in action, and while she’s not going to want to hire someone who is rude or creepy, she won’t be blinded by a charming but inadequately qualified candidate.

      Where I work, people tend to be hired in groups to consolidate training, and every time a group is hired, there’s one person in the group who is the obvious favorite — someone who really impressed the hiring manager in the interview. This person almost always turns out to be the dud of the group, but was apparently charming enough in the interview to fool the hiring manager.

  89. Spider in a Meeting*

    So I was in a meeting with a potential client – a SPIDER was crawling all over the guy’s shirt. I was across the conference room table, no one else seemed to notice.
    What’s more ‘professional’?
    Don’t disrupt the meeting and risk the guy getting home with a spider in his pants, or casually interrupt and let him know?
    (I’m a little hyper aware of potential spider bites since I have small, but permanent, facial scarring from one)

      1. Spider in a Meeting*

        Ugh that’s awful. Mine was pretty bad but not that bad – I got bit, just under my eye, while sleeping. I felt slightly ill for several days and it was swollen and ended up being a black pit of dead skin the size of a pea. Perm scarring there now, and another smaller location by my mouth that looks like a piercing scar.

    2. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I would have said something. “Jim, I’m so sorry to interrupt, but you have a spider on your shirt and it looks like one that isn’t very nice.” I also advocate for politely telling people they have spinach in their teeth or lint in their hair. I actually think my biggest worry would be that the guy has arachnophobia and would react badly, but I think most people would rather know they had a crawler on their person.

    3. B*

      I once went on a really bad interview that I had been pretty excited for and while I was in the conference room waiting for a switch in interviewers, a GIANT cockroach started crawling up the wall across from me. I stared at that sucker for half an hour and no one else noticed. In retrospect it was definitely a sign.

      1. EB*

        NO. My god, I am seriously impressed that you kept quiet about it. I’d be wriggling all over the place.

    4. EB*

      The culture of my office is such that even if we had outside clients/partners in the office and this happened it would not be out of place to shout “OH MY GOD SPIDER!”

      Which is good because I cannot contain myself. I’m proud of you for holding that info in!

      1. froodle*

        Walked past the IT office and heard our IT guy yelling “Go away I said! Fuck off! Stop it, just leave me alone!” Popped my head in, a wasp had flown in through his office. He threw a long cellophane wrapped. column of disposable coffee cups at it. I laughed, then ran and shut the door that connected his office to the one I work in.

        1. Daphne*

          Laughed aloud at this, have visions of him flailing around Lewis Litt style. Good call on shutting your door too!

          1. froodle*

            You know the inflatable wiggly arm things they have outside car dealerships? If you’re a wrestling fan, Bayley has them up when she runs down to the ring? He looked like that, just angrier and in a polo shirt.

            And yeah, I like our IT guy, but it was him or me and hey, *I* wasn’t the one who angered the wasp god by cursing at his messenger

  90. Fabulous*

    I have a coworker who’s leaving at the end of the month, and while I really like this person and will be sad to see her go, she does a few things that I won’t miss. Like when she accidentally deleted my work because she didn’t check that she wasn’t overwriting a previous file version when making updates; constantly calling to ask about simple things that an IM could have handled, turning a 2 second question into a 10 minute conversation; and then there’s the adding in extra spaces when typing in excel (I know this one is dumb, but it seriously messes up some formulas!) The biggest thing that’s been bugging me lately though is when she gives feedback consisting of purely notes of things that happened without actually drawing any conclusions or suggestions from it. It’s like, what am I supposed to take from this?

    Anyway, I don’t know if she’s just checked out a bit because she’s leaving, or maybe it’s only bugging me now because I’m going to miss having her around so my brain is nitpicking to make the transition easier. In any case, changes are afoot…

    1. ArtsNerd*

      Extra spaces in Excel are a true productivity drain! In Word, yes it’s nitpicky, but Excel is a whole other beast. Good luck with the transition!

  91. Lucie*

    PM here, one of the department managers who I work with from another department keeps making comments about one of the new senior managers at our customer. It’s comments about how she’s not got enough experience cause she’s always out having babies “Well really she’s been there like 4 years cause she’s been on maternity leave 3 times in 6 years…” or comments of “well you know, she chooses her family over her work life — which you have to make a decision at that level, so we’re just not going to get support we need anymore”

    I’m super at a loss of even what to do but it’s making me (female) uncomfortable. This guy is way way way way above my level, and on the same executive level as my direct boss but in another department. I mentioned it to my boss casually in a conversation once and he shrugged it off.

      1. Lucie*

        Yes. His wife doesn’t work, all about that good traditional family values or something.

    2. Rey*

      Wow! This is not okay. If you are ready to say something about it, I think this is something where you can prepare a few different comments that emphasize how inappropriate those remarks are in a work setting. Silently standing by suggests that you agree with him. Some examples could be:
      “Maternity leave doesn’t cancel out her experience, so I don’t think that’s true” or “Choices about family are private, so I’m not comfortable listening to that kind of criticism”.

    3. The Ginger Ginger*

      Now, I obviously don’t know all of your situation, but I would report that sh*t out of that to HR. But I work somewhere with a reasonable HR department. Given the level of the person making these comments, you may not. How’s your relationship with your Boss, and how firm were you in that convo? Can you go back to him the next time it happens (or even now), and say something like “I wasn’t clear enough about my concerns when we talked about this before. This is actually gender discrimination and I’m concerned that we could get into legal trouble if this kind of talk continues.” or something like that? Because…ugh, that dude is so gross. This is an EEOC complaint waiting to happen

    4. N Twello*

      First, document the problem very precisely and accurately. Capture exact quotes, dates, times, contexts, and witnesses. If he says anything like that in an email, save it.

      Next, think hard about your options for reporting him and what the repercussions of each might be. Options are: talk to him directly, talk to your boss, talk to HR, talk to someone higher up, or report this anonymously.

      Read your company’s policies for reporting issues. Do they have a mechanism for reporting sexual harassment? If so, that might be your safest route as it usually entails some protections for the reporter.

      This is a serious problem that constitutes a toxic workplace for any woman who might be thinking of having children – by which I mean, it affects employees beyond being insulting to that one particular customer. You would be doing a good service to the company by reporting it.

      On the other hand, there is probably some risk to you. I reported serious negative behavior by a VP once, and while the CEO/HR agreed with me and took action, they also let the VP know who complained about them and thereafter he had a vendetta against me, smearing my name and doing all sorts of hurtful things.

      1. Lucie*

        The only woman who has ever worked in his department left shortly after having a child too… and now I’m wondering if there wasn’t more going on with that.

  92. Nervous Accountant*

    I didn’t come back to the last week’s post but thanks everyone for the insight on the coworker whos soap I didn’t like. I know this was unfair of me to feel this way, esp since I like using various fragrances as part of my daily routine, but I’m human and we all feel things that may be irrational.

    She’s part time now so I’m not going to say anything. Honestly there are other things about her that rub me the wrong way (that aren’t THAT bad I guess?) so idk why I got stuck on the smell thing.

    and I took *some* of my shoes home. I still don’t think it’s weird to have a few pairs, but I wanted to declutter.

  93. Can't Sit Still*

    My company has decided that only exempt employees may work from home, for only one day a week. Also, flex time and time shifting is for exempt employees only. No exceptions. For some reason, they are surprised at how angry this has made people, even though WFH and flex time used to be for everyone and many people would WFH 2-3 days a week.

    Retention is our biggest problem, with people citing long commutes and lack of flexibility as the main reasons for leaving. I’m sure this new WFH policy will help with that. /s

    Personally, this is going to add six hours of commute time a week, so I’m really unhappy it, especially as I just signed a new lease.

    1. Spider in a Meeting*

      well, long commutes aren’t your company’s problem. And its a little funny that a company that had been allowing WFH and flex time still had people saying there was a ‘lack of flexibility’.

      But I totally understand that if you took away this benefit it would cause an uproar, so I feel for you there.

      1. Can't Sit Still*

        Honestly, most of this is normal during an acquisition, including long-term employees leaving in a huff, but it’s that they keep talking about how these are “enhancements” and “improvements” that make it particularly galling. (We particularly liked when they talked about how taking away a week of vacation time away was an “enhancement” of the time off policy.)

        However, long commutes are a major issue that the company’s management team is working on resolving, which is why restricting WFH now is so bizarre.

      2. N Twello*

        Even when a company doesn’t allow flex time, you can often negotiate different hours with your boss. If your commute is longer when you travel at peak times, you might be able to set your hours so that your travel is outside of peak rush hour.

        That’s just a thought. The situation still sucks.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Did they say why they were making this change? I suspect it didn’t come out of nowhere and they are concerned about productivity.

      1. Can't Sit Still*

        There was no official WFH policy before and now there is. They did a major rollout emphasizing how people should work from home at least one day a week and the company will pay for your complete WFH setup. My team is meeting (and exceeding) their performance goals. I think what happened is they standardized the policy and my department was an outlier, so it was negatively impacted.

    3. anonanon*

      It’s a bummer that a job perk was limited, but the actual policy doesn’t seem crazy. My company also doesn’t allow nonexempt staff to WFH. My assumption is that it’s because all of our nonexempt staff are in support roles, so WFH doesn’t really make sense. As someone else mentioned, people having a long commute isn’t the company’s problem. People can live wherever they would like, but it’s their responsibility to manage the commute.

  94. Working in tech is like punching myself in the face every day*

    I’ve been at my job 5 years. (Yes, I know I should move on already. All the dev jobs are 90-120 minutes away and I have a medical issue that’s not exactly compatible with long commutes. My partner and I own our home and moving is not an option right now.)

    I enjoy the work, but working in this industry is like punching myself in the fucking face every day. I think I’m just too weak as a person, and I don’t know where to go from here.

    I see exercise recommended a lot, but I’ve already got that down. 30 minutes of intense cardio 3x/week at lunch, playing a sport after work 2x/week, yoga class after work 1-2x/week. I eat healthy and keep a food diary. I have unrelated hobbies (cooking dinner at home every night, household chores, home improvement tasks, spending time with my partner, occasionally building models just for fun).

    And I guess maybe the exercise and unrelated hobbies are part of the problem, because they’re taking up time that I should be spending on dev stuff. I have (had?) a side project that I’ve done very little work on in the past year, because even thinking about it makes me sick with anxiety. I know that this career is a lifestyle, that it requires well more than 40 hours a week of work, and that employers expect you to do any learning on your own time. I kept that up for the first three years but I don’t feel capable of it anymore.

    I’m empty. So fucking empty. Sometimes at dinner, my partner will wave a hand in front of my face and I’ll realize I’ve been staring vacantly into space, lost in time. The other night on the way home, I sat at a stop sign waiting for it to turn green. When doing simple tasks, I forget the next step or forget what I’m doing entirely. I’m only 33, I’m not going senile. I have ADHD, which I take medication for, and I know the meds are still working because I’ve tried skipping them and I get so much worse. I can hold it together during the workday most of the time, but when I get home I’m derpy and easily overwhelmed.

    I know it’s not burnout because I just had a 5-day vacation last month. It feels like I just have a smaller mana pool than everybody else does. And everyone has to spend the same amount of mana on work, but for me that’s a higher percentage of my total mana. Like I said, I enjoy the work but I’m honestly not a very strong person. Are there career options for me? What would that look like? Is there such thing as a part time dev job that’ll let me work remotely? Or could it be that I’m just not a good fit for tech jobs?

    1. JDY*

      I’m sorry you’re going through this. I was laid off from a position that rendered me similarly unhappy, and its enabled me to realize how much the job affected me. Unfortunately I think that there’s only so much you can do outside of changing jobs and that you may expending so much energy trying to stay positive or make the situation work. Prior to layoff I felt trapped in that role because I didn’t think that there would be another good job for me because I am specialized. However, now I can see interesting opportunities on the horizon having had to let go of the preconceived notions I had about finding work. It will take some time, but I have been getting some receptivity to work remotely. Just my experience, good luck.

    2. The New Wanderer*

      Honestly it does sound a bit like burnout. Vacations help but it’s not a total system reset and it sounds like your situation represents a system-level burnout. It’s very impressive that you’ve managed to keep exercising and healthy eating a priority (for me that’s the first thing to go!), but the job situation isn’t going to change and it doesn’t sound like you want to do it long term.

      There are full time telecommuting dev jobs, so that’s something to consider because those commutes sound awful. I don’t know about p/t though. There are lateral move jobs within tech that might be a better fit though, like testing or project management. Are there people working in these kinds of roles at your company that you could chat with? Or spend some time thinking about the answer to “If I couldn’t do this kind of work anymore, what entirely different type of work would I want to do?” Incidentally, I’ve always been surprised that most of the friends I’ve talked to answer that with a food-based response (be a personal chef/caterer, own and operate a bakery, etc). Just thinking about your options might help you not feel so trapped.

      1. Working in tech is like punching myself in the face every day*

        I don’t even like the tech industry anymore — it has the Jurassic Park problem. You know, “We spent so much time asking if we can, that we never thought to ask if we should.” But STEM STEM STEM it’s the only way to a paycheck and you have no right to complain about money if you don’t have a STEM job especially if you got a useless degree so let’s all jump in the STEM meat grinder and feel true abiding passion for it. Because that is a job requirement listed in every single posting. The best is when job postings list “obsession with $thing” as a requirement — when did unhealthy fixation become necessary for economic survival?

        I like food and cooking at home, but couldn’t do it as a job. Aside from an old injury to my low back, I hate fast-paced environments. It sounds wrong because people with ADHD are supposed to thrive in fast-paced environments but I just shut down and can’t think at all.

        Tbh if I were single my goal would be living and working in an ashram. I don’t belong in this society. It’s not that I don’t want to work (why tf does everyone always think that?) it’s that employment has no room for a meditative, diligent, one-thing-at-a-time, take-your-time-and-do-it-right style of work. And there is a huge difference between hard work done for an employer vs. hard work done for the direct maintenance or improvement of my environment. This world is not made for broken people.

        1. Triple Anon*

          I’ve gone through the same thing. I was really unhappy with the industry. The SCRUM meetings. I’m sure that methodology works for some teams and some projects, but in my case, it was a huge waste of time and it added a lot of bureaucracy to projects that didn’t need it. I think that kind of structure should be more like a backup plan to turn to if things get chaotic without it.

          I also witnessed some of the most extreme prejudice I have seen in my life. People were hyper-focused on demographics, personality testing and other dubious ways to categorize people. It was a distraction from and a detriment to the work. You need people who do that job well, not a set of demographic categories and personality test scores. And the social Darwinism. People from affluent backgrounds expressing disdain for anyone less fortunate – publicly, at work.

          And the blurring of personal and professional boundaries. The pressure to be a spokesperson for the company 24/7, to become close friends with your co-workers, and all the dysfunction that goes with that.

          I left. I’ve been a lot happier since, but I haven’t found anything non-tech with the same kind of income stability. So now I’m looking for a tech job that’s outside the core of the industry and might offer a different culture. Sending out resumes and hoping.

    3. Manders*

      Oof, I’m sorry you’re dealing with this. I’m not a developer, but I do have developer friends who work from home, and making that switch was a huge improvement for their mental health.

      You listed a lot of things you consider hobbies, but it sounds like a good chunk of those may not actually be hobbies? Cooking dinner, chores, and home improvement tasks may be relaxing in a way, but they’re not really hobby pursuits for most people. Hanging out with a partner can be fun and relaxing, but it’s not a hobby either. It sounds like you’re not building models all that often, and you don’t talk about your sports and yoga as if they’re hobbies you enjoy. Is it possible that you need something creative in your life that’s not work and not something you do so you can work more efficiently? You talked about feeling too anxious to work on your side project–are you getting stuck in a cycle of feeling like you can’t work toward creating something in your free time if it doesn’t have a day job-related purpose in your life?

      1. Working in tech is like punching myself in the face every day*

        are you getting stuck in a cycle of feeling like you can’t work toward creating something in your free time if it doesn’t have a day job-related purpose in your life?

        Nail on the head, right there.

        1. Manders*

          Ugh, yeah, I’ve been there and it sucks. You may have to make some tough choices about what in your life you can cut to make time for a creative hobby that isn’t another source of stress.

          It might also be time to have some tough conversations with your partner about what the future looks like. Are you the primary breadwinner, and if so, what would happen if you need a break or a lower-paid career? Would moving to a lower cost-of-living area be an option if you could telecommute? Does your skill set lend itself to freelancing or starting a small business?

          If you don’t have a therapist right now, it also might be a good idea to get one just to bounce ideas off of an impartial third party. I tried a therapy app early this year, and while it had some problems, it was pretty handy to be able to text a therapist without carving out time for appointments.

    4. EB*

      Not sure how much the exercising plays into keeping your medical issue at bay– but honestly– sometimes completely dropping my rigid schedule outside of work does wonders for me when I’m burnt out but unable to take a long break (I agree with Wanderer that it sounds like that’s what you’re dealing with– I’d need much more).

      For instance– maybe instead of your lunchtime cardio– you leave the office and just talk a brisk walk somewhere new? Or figure out a way to engage in your hobbies during lunch somehow? For me, I love photography and will occasionally challenge myself to go find something interesting to photograph over lunch. It’s not a regular habit, just something that perks me up a bit when I can feel my reserves running low.

      Also, you may find this to be a completely empty and meaningless mantra. But I have a new thing at work where if I find myself getting really drained, I ask, “what would this look like if it were easy?” It doesn’t work all the time, but several times when I’ve looked at a work problem from that angle I realized I was making it more complicated than it needed to be. Or that I was trying to over-achieve on a task no one really cared about. I’m in an overtime heavy field where “passion” is “necessary” to “succeed” and people love to run around and brag about putting in 100+ hours, never taking breaks– even sleeping at the office! Yeah… that is NOT ME. I want a life outside of work!

      Funny thing about the people putting in crazy hours… they tend to be extremely inefficient and spread that inefficiency around the office like a disease. Asking that simple question of myself has caused me to rework parts of my job and have made me much more efficient– giving me some time and sanity back. There are definitely people I work with that think I’m some kind of complete failure for not wanting to join in on 24/7 office living, BUT– my manager has seen the improvement in my mood and productivity and no longer cares that I’m not willing to put in such crazy hours anymore. So, I guess I’m saying you can make yourself valuable without putting in a crazy amount of extra effort. Maybe! I’m not in tech but it’s worth contemplating because my industry has some SERIOUS issues that are not unlike tech’s.

      1. Working in tech is like punching myself in the face every day*

        The vigorous exercise is half to burn off energy and control my temper, half to improve my athletic performance. But I suppose on the other two days I could try doing something a bit slower.

        “what would this look like if it were easy?”

        Huh, I’ll have to give that a try and see what happens. I think it would fit in with my usual approach, which is “where are we now and where are we trying to go?” Thanks!

        1. Catalin*

          Please consider seeing a doctor. This sounds a lot like me when I’m in a downswing (depression). You could also have any of a dozen other medical causes that is turning the volume up on your misery. (Note, it won’t help you stop hating your job, but if your body IS out of whack, and there is a way to fix it, it might cut the crushing misery back. A LOT.)

          1. Bex*

            2nd this. I always thought that depression = sad until I was diagnosed. For me, the key symptoms are exhaustion, distraction, and an overall dullness as if life was just not happening in full color anymore.

    5. gecko*

      You say you’re “not a very strong person,” and that’s wack. You have an attention disorder that, as you say, leaves you with less total mana than most other people; you’re completely out of juice after you get home from work; you exercise like every day and keep a food diary; you work a hard job that just wants to take over rest of your life. Yeah you’re not weak, you’re being eaten alive by an industry that loves to eat people alive. The way people survive in those kinds of jobs is, they don’t have a life, or they have a (usually female) spouse who takes care of everything for them.

      Ok, so what are some work options? Tech companies that are smaller AND older–I found one and it’s really chill. Companies outside the silicon valley-type companies; insurance companies for instance will often have in-house development teams. Saving up some money so you can have a real break, enough time to get bored–5 days is not enough vacation to stave off burnout. I don’t know anyone in a part-time dev job tbh, but there are plenty that allow a lot of remote work–that’s especially possible if you’re able to commute into an office one or two days a week. Many of these options may feel less prestigious or pay less than working at a Google or an Apple.

      Stop punching yourself in the damn face!!! Good luck!!!

    6. Tau*

      Seconding what everyone has said, and also:

      I know that this career is a lifestyle, that it requires well more than 40 hours a week of work, and that employers expect you to do any learning on your own time.

      The thing is that this doesn’t *have* to be true (and I think it’s a very cruel way to treat people, too). I’m a software dev and I’ve had one 37.5 hr/week and one 40 hr/week job – no overtime. I have also definitely seen part-time dev roles and am considering seeing if I can go part-time in a few years (I have Asperger’s and hear you on the smaller mana pool; even 40 hours can be pretty draining). I’m not saying it’s easy to find roles like this, especially as I’m guessing you’re in the US, but I’m worried that you seem to be telling yourself that it’s impossible and therefore there’s no point in even thinking about the possibility.

    7. Cedrus Libani*

      Maybe you could consider doing independent software / app dev work? Pick a need, build a tool, then sell it. It would be your project, you can do it to your standards in your own time. And no commute. I know people whose primary income is through app sales; it’s possible, though expect to have minimal income the first year or two while you build up your catalog.

    8. Lindsay J*

      I know it’s not a complete solution by any means, but have you let your doctor know/talked to him about upping your ADHD meds or changing them to extended release or something?

      Just going based on that you said it happens in the evening after you get home, and that it’s worse without them.

      They can become less effective over time without the effectivity being 0.

    9. Not So NewReader*

      So I am trying to think of things that make us feel empty on the inside.

      Grief. Have you had any recent losses that turned your world upside down?
      Secondary question, do you grieve your stagnation in life right now?

      Goals. Goals are like food and water. We see this in abuse situations. I am not saying you are being abused, I am using it as example of how soul-killing it can be to have NO goals. People with no goals are more apt to give up or have huge, debilitating feelings of wandering listlessness.

      Job. And I am thinking from what you have written here this is the problem. Your job is sucking the life force right out of you. So, what would you like to do with your life? Where are your natural abilities? What types of things do you gravitate to over and over?

      Vitamins and minerals. You might want to have your blood levels checked if you have not already. Losses of vitamins and minerals (to be expected with stress) can really mess up our thinking and our lives.

  95. The Tin Man*

    So I’ve been assigned to a national-level project at work that will require a decent amount of travel at times but otherwise remote work. One thing I’m struggling with – conference calls and accents. I just got off a conference call where I could barely understand one person on the call between his accent and the fact that it sounded like he was on speakerphone. The person running the meeting seemed to be able to understand him just fine but I was STRUGGLING. I can usually understand people with accents just fine in person but it being over the phone makes it way harder.

    I didn’t want to hold up the meeting by constantly asking what he was saying and I waited to long to speak up about not being able to understand. Plus if he wasn’t on speakerphone then I just would seem difficult and/or insensitive to the fact that he is a non-native English speaker. This is the third time already that I’ve struggled like this on a call. One of the three times it was a one-on-one call and I just asked the other person to turn off speakerphone and it got better. The other two were conference calls where it would have been disruptive to have me constantly asking the person to repeat what was said.

    What can I do in conference call scenarios when I can’t understand someone’s accent? I feel awful because I am happy to work with people from anywhere, my ears and brain are just garbage and converting mouthsounds to words. I am terrible at hearing song lyrics, too.

    1. Inspector Spacetime*

      Ugh, I sympathize with this. I don’t know if I have hearing problems or what, but I can never understand people over the phone, and an accent would just make that harder. I have to concentrate so hard to understand people when I can’t look at their face.

    2. Super stressed*

      Can you possibly ask for the conference calls to become video conferences? looking at peoples faces/reading their lips as they speak helps a LOT

    3. The Ginger Ginger*

      What’s your set up? Are you listening to this on a phone or do you have a headset? I also am garbage at putting together sounds into words that make sense (accents that I’m less familiar with make it a trillion times worse) and I’ve had some improvement (just some – it’s not a magical cure), with switching to a gaming headset on my computer and calling the phone number/dial-in through my google voice or someother online phone app.

      Also – are these calls using actual phone numbers/conference calling tech or are the online chats like MS teams or skype calls? In my experience the online chat technology is NOWHERE NEAR as clear as dialing into an actual conference call phone number. So if your team is using online chat, it may be worth seeing if that can change to some type of actual phone-line dial in. That may be complicated by the introduction of international callers, but is still worth checking into.

      Basically, make the tech and sound quality as optimal as possible so it isn’t an additional hurdle to understanding.

      1. The Ginger Ginger*

        also – in case anyone isn’t aware, gaming headsets usually have really decent directional microphones in them that can easily be muted by raising the “boom”, so they also cut way down on environmental sounds in your call.

    4. N Twello*

      There are lots of good suggestions here, but if you still have a problem then you should talk to the meeting organizer(s). The meeting organizer is responsible for making sure that everyone can participate fully in the meeting. That might mean asking individuals to not use speaker phone, to speak more slowly, or whatever. It’s best to talk to the organizer outside the meeting, but you can also ping the organizer during the meeting to say you didn’t understand something. The organizer should either summarize what was said or ask the person to repeat it.

    5. raktajino*

      I empathize; I am terrible at understanding people over the phone in general, especially when someone mumbles or has an accent.

      One thing that hasn’t been mentioned that helps me is to take notes as I listen; often I’m just stumbling over a single word or phrase and that sometimes gets filled in. If you have a detailed agenda that can help too because it helps your brain stay on track with possible words.

      Another thing that has been helpful for me in general is just additional exposure to the accent. If you can find Youtube videos of people with that accent, listening to those might help acclimate your ear.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      I draw it back on myself. “Gee, my connection does not seem very good. I can’t get what is being said.”
      They may ask you to hang up and dial in again, sometimes this does help. If that doesn’t work, I will mention the damage to my ears from chronic ear infections and that it does cut into my ability to hear once in a great while.
      Perhaps if you can pull it back on yourself in some manner that will help you to say what you need to say?

  96. CurrentlyLooking*

    Question 2: I have been thinking that mentioning sometime during an interview that I no longer have small (or even medium) kids to take care of.

    In an in person interview, I can’t exactly pass for a person too young to be a mom and as my youngest is driving I am in the position to be able to work late / travel / have a longer commute than most people with kids. I am asking because interviewers don’t always appear to fully believe it when I say I am available to travel or that the commute wouldn’t be too long for me.

    1. owlie*

      no offense but if you say this like “i would’ve been flaky back when my kids were little, but not anymore!” you’re doing everyone a disservice (validating interviewers’ misguided beliefs that characteristics are a better predictor of behavior than answers to their questions, suggesting that other interviewees or workers probably are flaky if they do have small children). see this morning’s post about not claiming children as accomplishment in interview.

    3. Former Retail Manager*

      I understand what you mean. You can sense the interviewers disbelief/hesitation, but they know they can’t really specifically ask about children. I’d only say something if they VERY clearly seem to disbelieve you and I’d try to throw it in casually as in “I’m fortunate that I no longer have obligations that impact my commute distance/ability to take a position with travel and I’m really excited about potential travel.” I’m not Alison…..I’m sure there’s better wording, but you get the gist. If the interviewer had mentioned their own family at any point (not likely I realize), I might say something like “I’m glad that mine are all self-sufficient these days which has freed up my schedule greatly.”

      But you’d need to be reaaaallyyyyy sure before you say anything. Otherwise, it would come off odd. I’ve had interviewers ask if I had any obligations that might prevent travel/long commute/overtime, etc. Ideally they’d ask you that, you’d say no, and move on without the need to specifically mention kids.

    4. Totally Minnie*

      I don’t think you should mention this. I’m 35 and don’t have children, and if an interviewer seemed to make that assumption or appeared not to believe the things I was telling them in the interview, that would be a pretty big sexism indicator to me and I would not take that job.

      My recommendation is to keep the entire interview job-focused. If you have a gap in your resume or a long period of part time work from when you were more focused on mom-duties, they might ask you about that, but don’t be the first person to bring it up.

    5. CurrentlyLooking*

      Yes, some of this is because I previously worked part-time and I am now looking for a full-time position. And I get the sense that interviewers then think that I wouldn’t want to work hard.
      Maybe some of this is just in my head :)

      Thanks for all the responses – I will come up with a way to word this without mentioning kids

    6. Not So NewReader*

      “I do have open availability. You appear concerned about my availability, would you like us to talk about this? Let’s start with the time frames that the average employee here is working. I would like to help ease your concerns.”

  97. ginkgo*

    Interview today – send me good vibes, please! :) I have to do a presentation, which I have never done before for an interview and was really nervous about, but I’ve practiced it so much that I think I feel the least nervous about that part of the interview!

    How is everyone else’s job search going?

    2. MassholeMarketer*

      I had to do a presentation for an interview on the 4th and found out on the 18th I didn’t get the position… wicked bummed but I’m throwing good vibes your way!

  98. Justme, The OG*

    I’ve been in promotion purgatory since April. I sent in my resume to my supervisor to write the job duties of this position to be in line with what I already do (so, same job but new title and more pay). The position keeps being rejected by HR and others so my boss has to write it over again. I was hoping to be in this position at the start of the new fiscal year but that isn’t going to happen – the position has not been approved, and the application (I have to apply for it because government, yay) has to be open for 7 days before they close it.

  99. JDY*

    Question: I had a phone interview and an in person interview in which they asked for my salary expectations and both times I replied 70-90k negotiable with benefits. They are in the midst of checking my references and signs point to me being top candidate for the position. The hiring manager calls this morning to let me know that his top offer is below my range and I reply again that I would still like to see a full offer before ruling the position out. I was told top of the budget for this position is 55k. Hiring manager said that in 6 mo they will be redoing budgets and essentially there could be more in future, many opportunities for growth.
    How much room for budge is there? Are they playing with me by letting the hiring process get this far before letting me know this? I do have more experience/education than in the job posting, which was light on listing qualifications but I figured it was vague because its a rapidly growing/expanding startup type where positions and growth is quickly evolving.

    ps. thank goodness for open thread fridays.

    1. KMB213*

      I could be wrong, but I doubt there’s much wiggle room above that $55,000 at this time.

      Honestly, I think letting you get to this stage when you were clear about your salary expectations is, well, kind of rude. Either they strung you along hoping you would fall in love with the role and take significantly less than you’re seeking/worth, or they are really disorganized and did not have the salary figured out when they should have.

      It would be different if they were calling and saying at $68,000 is the max they could do, but that would include benefits and lots of time off, or something, but $55,000 is not even close to the low end of your range.

      1. JDY*

        Thanks for your response. I’m wondering if they are betting on me being desperate because I was laid off and am currently unemployed.

    2. The New Wanderer*

      I also think if $55k is the TOP of their budget right now, you’d be really unlikely to see $70k for a long time. It means they’d be happy to pay someone less than $55k. Redoing the budget might mean an adjustment to, say, $60k in the future, but it’s just a promise of maybe in the first place. I definitely wouldn’t count on them coming anywhere close to your range for this specific position. Possibly they figured you’d opt out when you heard their range and since you didn’t, that you’d be willing to accept $55k for what might be a junior role for you.

  100. KMB213*

    I feel my boss/workplace is taking advantage of a new employee and there’s not much I can do about it.

    Some background: We’re a small, but quickly growing company (still fewer than 10 employees, but our revenue is growing quickly). We have more work than revenue at the moment, so hiring has been tricky – we need people to cover the work, but don’t have a ton of extra money to pay them.

    We recently hired a new employee. We are VASTLY underpaying her, based on her market rate. Everyone here is slightly underpaid, but, for the rest of us, there are some things that balance it out (flexible hours, the ability to help determine the direction of the company’s growth, the opportunity to take on more than most people in the same stage of their careers, etc.). This new employee does have most of the same benefits, but, they don’t come close to making up for the amount that she’s underpaid.

    Yes, she agreed to her pay rate. However, she was supposed to work only 30 hours a week. She’s exempt, so it was never supposed to be limited to just those 30 hours every single week, but that was meant to be the average week for her. (Even at 30 hours a week, she would be making about 1/2, maybe 2/3 of what she should be making.) She’s working significantly more than 30 hours a week and my boss is always on her case about fitting even more work in AND getting a difficult-to-achieve certification. (He wants her to take an expensive course geared toward receiving this certification, but won’t pay for the course. She could probably get it without the course, but the course would be a huge help.) I honestly think the main reason she’s staying at this point is that she *needs* health insurance and is currently going without.

    I really feel like my boss is taking advantage of her and, while I’m nearly certain he hasn’t done anything illegal, I feel like paying her so little, but expecting so much is just, for lack of a better word, wrong. I am not his #1 fan anyway, but it has really soured my opinion of him. And I know she’s an adult and she agreed to this, but she’s also young and fairly new to the working world. It just feels wrong to me.

    Add on to this that my boss has scoffed at paying female consultants what they’re worth before, too, and has actually expressed frustration at two female consultants we work with sending him bills, and it feels like there’s a bit of a sexist element to it, as well. (He’s also made sexist comments in the past about women’s bodies, etc., so there’s more to this feeling.)

    I don’t know that I’m necessarily looking for advice, but I wanted to vent. (If anyone has advice, feel free to give it, though.) I am looking for a new job, because I feel like this whole situation has really shown me his true colors.

    (And, just to add, my boss is the owner of the company and is really the only boss/supervisor here, other than me. I supervise our administrative employees, but am not this woman’s supervisor. I have, however, sat in on many of her meetings with the boss/owner, so I know the details of her offer, etc. pretty well, which is how I have so much information on what she’s being paid, etc.)

    1. Peaches*

      I don’t know if this is really your problem to solve (I know you feel bad for her, and understandably at that!) However, I think at the most, you could encourage her to push back against her boss’s unrealistic expectations if you see that she’s visibly bothered by the situation.

      Just curious also how you know what she makes? You don’t mention what your position is, so I’m not sure!

        1. KMB213*

          I actually don’t supervise her, but, as I mentioned, I sat in on her offer meeting. I also run payroll, so I know what everyone makes.

      2. KMB213*

        Yes, I know it’s not my problem to solve, I was just expressing my frustration. I guess I wasn’t clear!

      1. KMB213*

        I’ve thought about that, but she makes more than $23,600/year, she is salaried, and she’s a professional (an attorney), so I’m pretty sure she qualifies for exempt status. (I know it’s a bit more complex than that, but, without getting into too much detail, she technically checks all of the boxes, as best I can tell.)

    4. Inspector Spacetime*

      I don’t suppose there’s any way you could casually tip her off that they’re underpaying her? Although if she’s an attorney, she would presumably know what the market rate is. That kind of thing is very standardized.

      1. Reba*

        A bit of a sexist element? A bit!

        I have had friends in similar situations. Not in law, so maybe it’s different.

        But does she know how much you make and others in the company make? I honestly think this is something you can tell her that is hugely helpful (your salary, and/or your opinion what others have been offered for similar jobs in the past, clearly don’t tell others’ salaries without permission).

    5. The Ginger Ginger*

      I don’t know if there’s anything you can do now, but if you get a new job you could always say on your way out – “Look, you don’t have to do anything with this info, but you’re being underpaid, boss pulled a bait and switch on your hours, and is treating you like crap. If you ever choose to leave, here’s a way to get hold of me, I’m happy to give you a reference.” Even if she chooses to stay, it might be helpful to her to know someone else sees this as NOT OKAY. And not relying on that guy to give her a reference would be awesome. Heck you could offer to be her reference even if you’re not leaving.

  101. epi*

    I have shared here before about a fellow grad student in my office who showed a very inappropriate level of interest in me last year, and was told by HR to never contact me again. In the last few weeks it’s become clear that I am upset about this again not because I had more stuff to with through, but because he has probably started stalking me. I don’t really know how long he has been following or monitoring me, but there have been three incidents that I know of, usually at my gym, all when I would next be walking home.

    I’m talking to HR today, have a counselor and an advocate, and in addition to the Title IX reports they will make, I am making a complaint this time myself.

    Just wondering if there are others who had to take this route who are willing to talk about it, or people in academic administration who had to be involved. I’m not that angry at this person or hoping for something punitive to happen, but it’s obvious he can’t handle being in an office near me and I’m not leaving. Because he’s escalated to following me outside the office, I question whether he belongs on campus at all. It’s not really clear to me whether he could be suspended or dismissed for this, but I think I’m at the point that may be what I want.

    1. Tuxedo Cat*

      Geez, I’m sorry you’re going through this.

      I’ve been stalked in grad school. What I would suggest is you also talk to ombuds. Ombuds isn’t a magic bullet but they might have some ideas, too, of what to do too. I documented everything.

      You might also want to talk to the local police. I ended up needing to.

    2. Justme, The OG*

      Make sure that campus and local police know what is going on, if they don’t already. If he is dismissed for this (and to me as an outside it seems like he should be) he may attempt to retaliate.

      Other than that, I am so sorry that you are going through this.

      1. Admin of Sys*

        This. Definitely involve local / campus police in the process, not only for your own personal safety, but also so there’s clear and correct documentation if anything has to be escalated. Stay safe!

        1. Reba*

          I agree with considering pursuing legal protections. I had a deal arranged by university authorities that a certain person could never be where I was on campus — if I showed up, he had to leave. There was no way this could possibly be enforced, and indeed, it was not. And of course it had no bearing on the world outside the campus either.

          I’m sorry you’re dealing with this, epi, but so heartened to hear/read “I’m not going anywhere.” I hope things go well with your meetings. We are rooting for you.

      2. Buu*

        yeah talk to the police, this isn’t just someone acting up they are following you.

        Does the gym have security? or at least a manager? Alert them that this guy is possibly stalking you. Hopefully they can keep an eye out for him and send someone over to you if he’s seen about, so you can get away safely. It also provides witnesses if he does escalate.

    3. A Nickname for AAM*

      I think you should get as many people involved as you can. My husband is a professor, and he recently had to attend a faculty meeting about a graduate student in their department who had gone full-tilt school shooter, posting graphic and violent social media threats against grad students and professors. For a OVER A YEAR. He was horrified to learn that the university was aware of someone who posed a clear and present danger to students and staff and opted to do nothing for so long.

      TL;DR: It took over a year to expel someone who credibly threatened to murder professors, expect a slow process so stay on it as best as you can and don’t get discouraged.

      1. MechanicalPencil*

        I’ve had a similar situation. It’s took over a year from the time I became aware I had a stalker for them to get to the arrest point. I had to report it twice because the first time my evidence was too circumstantial. I had been stalked even longer than I was truly aware. Talk to your HR, but also talk to your campus police and your city police.Document everything. It’s a frustrating process, but it’s for your safety.

    4. Formerly a DV Advocate*

      First off I am so so sorry you are going through this. I worked at a DV shelter and would get calls similar to this. You mentioned an advocate; is this an advocate at the university? Or an outside agency? If not, I would recommend calling the local DV program. Advocates are trained on their state’s law regarding protection orders and stalking and they may offer additional resources. They will also help you safety plan. Calling the advocate and asking about legal alternatives does NOT mean you have to pursue one. However, it is always helpful to know your state laws and your options. In my state, stalking is one of the hardest things to prove. However, it is not impossible and your local DV program will help you figure it out, help you with the stalking order, gathering proof and in some cases, be there as support if you decide to go to court.

      Since HR told the student to stop, did they ever follow up with you about what to do if they didn’t? Do you have any documentation on any last incidents? If not, start documenting, including the last three incidents. I also recommended going to the stalking resource center website and printing out their stalking log. Oftentimes, stalking victims are not believed and having documented patterns of behavior (also one of the things you need to prove in court to get a stalking order) is key. Again, even if you do not decide to go the legal route, documenting all of this gives you a sense of power and control on what is happening. It also validates that you are not imaging things and are actually experiencing these events. I would get calls where the callers would feel powerless and close friends/family would not believe them. Stalking more then anything is very insidious.

      When you met with the advocate and school coordinator did they provide you with your rights or any materials regarding resources and did they offer you any school support? I am both surprised and unsurprised that they only told the student to stop and didn’t move their office elsewhere. Maybe they have to go through a process and if so, did they explain it to you? I ask because oftentimes schools are not best prepared or staffed to handle cases like this. I was considering to apply to as Title XI Coordinator and the experience needed varies across schools. Sometimes all you needed was a Masters and limited experience in the advocacy field. If you didn’t get any material, read up on your school’s harassment policy and schedule an appointment with the counselor, advocate and whoever else needs to be involved. Know the school policy and bring your documented proof and let them know that this has escalated and the school has a responsibility and obligation to keep you safe. You can role play with a trusted friend/family member or local DV advocate to how best have this conversations. But you have a right to be able to live your life and go to school without fear. And either the school will help and if not, you need to do what is best for you.

    5. The Ginger Ginger*

      (This is long. Sorry.)

      So I am not a lawyer and have no experience in this, but it may be worth researching what you would need to have/do to get an actual restraining order issued on this guy (and what circumstances in your state rise to the level of allowing – is that the right word here?- a restraining order to be issued). You don’t have to ever get one if you don’t want to, but it would be good info to have just in case. Also – involve your local cops, even if your just filing a report or giving them a heads up. It may make obtaining a restraining order easier in the future.

      So, I’m not trying to scare you with this, but I think you really, really need to plan for worst case scenario here. Plan for the worst, hope for the best. And if you never have to use the plan? Great! At least you had it. Because here’s the thing. People who stalk, they don’t usually stalk just a little bit. They escalate, and this guy is already escalating. So okay, if stalker gets booted off campus, how might he escalate? Do you live on campus? Or do you live off-campus? Do you ever leave campus? Do you plan on leaving once you graduate or will you build a willow hut and stay there forever? Because if you plan on leaving the campus ever again, stalker will have access to you and may carry right on stalking along. It sucks that YOU have to be the one freaked out and planning this when stalker is clearly, clearly the a-hole in this scenario, but the world sucks so we all do our best. I am seriously advising you to treat this like a critical emergency right now, so that hopefully, this can be nipped in the bud and never escalate further, and if it does, YOU WILL HAVE A PLAN.

      Check out the book The Gift of Fear by Gavin DeBecker (ignore the victim blaming in the Domestic Violence chapter, dude did NOT get that bit right), read the CaptainAwkward blog (especially the letters re: stalking, there’s a search bar to help you find them). If you can, talk to a lawyer to help you figure out what legal recourse you have NOW and what recourse you have if things get worse (and how they have to get worse for you to have recourse – this can vary by location). If you haven’t already, CUT THIS DUDE OFF. No contact – full stop. Block him on any and every social media, block his number, if he’s emailing you – send it to a folder you NEVER look at, unless it’s to forward it to a lawyer/law enforcement. Save anything he’s written or said to you for evidence later (even if you never end up using it). But NEVER EVER RESPOND. If you respond you just teach this person that they have to message you 1,543 times to get a response. Do not teach them this.

      Document the SH*T out of everything. Again. You may never need to use any of this, but having this all on file and planned out allows you to respond fast if this thing escalates. Treat it like an absolute f*cking emergency right now, so that you’re not scrambling and caught flat-footed later.

      Do you have an alarm system where you’re living? Can you afford one? Do you have friends and family who will help you pay for one? Now might be the time. Cell phone is charged at all times. Do you have a spare tire that’s in decent shape in your car? Now might be the time to check. Do all the people you trust know that this dude is bad news and NOT TO BE AROUND YOU and that you’re to be given a heads up if they see this dude lurking?

      Sorry to sound alarmist, but like I said – plan for the worst now. Because, real talk, and you know this already, this guy is scary. If you are feeling bad or awkward about this, here is permission to cut that out right now. Do not feel bad for him, or his feelings, or his social standing or anything else. Here is full on affirmation from another random person on the internet if you need it: he is being 1000% creepy; this is not on you. Do not wait for him to escalate further by thinking – oh, it was just 3 times, maybe I misunderstood, maybe he’s just socially awkward – or whatever tf. Treat this dude like a clear and present danger to you. Don’t wait for him to ramp up his stalking before you ramp up your protections. Sometimes with a stalker you can starve the monster if you respond with a full out nuclear level protection bubble right out the gate. But if this doesn’t deter him, know that it is STILL NOT YOUR FAULT. There is no way for you to have responded “correctly” to prevent this dude from being a creep. This is all on him.

      Good luck. Stay safe! Build a support network/team you. Keep us updated.

      2. Hamburke*

        Gavin de Becker recommends responding ONCE – to formally request not to be contacted.

        I’ve had to use his techniques, unfortunately. My teen daughter was being harrassed by a former friend. I eventually went to her parents and religious advisor (part of the harrassment was a difference in religious beliefs – yay public schools in the Bible belt!) to get it to stop.

        1. The Ginger Ginger*

          He does say that yes, but based on the fact that epi says it’s escalated to the point where HR has already told this dude to not have any contact with epi at all, ever again, we’re waaaay past the 1 time warning. That’s been delivered and ignored. No contact, no response freeze out is the way forward here.

  102. Triple Anon*

    To recap for those who haven’t been following my story:

    My last full time job was full of dysfunction. There was so much sexual harassment, I had to pretend to be doing different work than what I was actually doing because of my gender (they were pretty open about this) and many other things. I was having mixed feelings about my career path and geographic location. I had savings. It got so bad, I left without anything lined up. I was subsequently stalked by a former co-worker for the next three years both in person and on social media. I had to move across the country and it alienated me from other people from that workplace who had experienced similar things (it appeared we were friends but it was one way and not consensual). I did good work there, but I can’t use anyone as a reference.

    The move went badly. I got injured and was ripped off my the moving company, wiping out my savings. My computer was damaged. Since then, I’ve been eeking our a living doing odd jobs and starting a side business. While in this situation, I’ve run into some other bad situations that have created setbacks. It’s a long story. I’ve also lost most of my friends because people haven’t wanted to hear me talk about what was going on and have instead judged me for leaving a good job with nothing lined up and then occasionally complaining about struggling. They don’t know that I’ve been stalked by the co-worker and several other people. No one has really been there for me. So I’ve been slowly making new friends.

    Things have gotten really bad financially. I have some job leads. But I have hardly any references. My performance at the jobs I’ve done just to get by has been subpar because I’ve been working 80 hours a week while dealing with disabilities, poverty (can’t afford to do laundry – that kind of thing) and the stalking situations.

    I have a master’s degree and a lot of impressive skills and experience. I’m polishing up my resume and writing cover letters today. How can I handle all of this? Is there anything that’s appropriate to say?

    1. Reba*

      Not much advice, but sending you encouragement, Triple Anon. Thanks for keeping us updated.

      For your cover letter, are you wondering how to/whether to address the last FT job? I don’t think anything negative belongs in the intro materials… I’m not even sure the narrative of “I moved here and am trying to get on my feet” needs to be addressed there. If you get further in the process and they ask about why you left or why you don’t have a reference (keeping in mind that they can call the place anyway) do you think you could say something like “Unfortunately I had to leave that position quickly due to stalking” or is that too much? Maybe “I had to leave due to a personal emergency that is now past.” With a smile conveying you are calm, cool, and collected. Good luck writing your materials!

    2. NaoNao*

      Personally, I would have a few lines ready to offer when asked, but don’t volunteer. If this in any way coincides with the 2008-2010 ish era in the USA, give a sort of “I had a bumpy couple of years with the recession, you know how it is” or what the other poster suggested “I had to leave on short notice due to a personal emergency. It’s now resolved and I’m back in the game.”

      The thing that strikes me is there’s a lot of stuff in this letter that’s not about work. It’s up to you on how to handle that—maybe a good therapist? But you have *got* to leave that off the table, even when discussing it with career coaches or anyone else related to work. It sucks hard that friends weren’t there for you and you were busting your butt and too broke to do laundry and that you got stalked. The bad luck fairy really keep booping you with her wand!

      But to be frank, that doesn’t matter to the potential employer in the grand scheme of things–and any discussion of such could be a red flag to even an understanding employee. What matters is your criminal record, if any, your drug test results, if not clean, your disability status (I’d keep mum for now if any), and your education, skills, experience, and job fit. The only times you need to go into detail is to explain a misdemeanor or something, or a HUGE gap in your history where you were like, inpatient lockdown or something similar.

      To address the sub par performance, if it’s even brought up, I’d say something like “To be honest, I was patching together four jobs and occasionally things did slip through the cracks or I dropped the ball. With one full time job, I can be sure that will never happen.” Or something a bit more polished.

      Focus on those things and make sure the story you tell in your materials keeps the focus on them.

      Is it possible to work a slightly lower level job in customer service call center, or as an admin, or something similar, to reestablish your work history and get a good reference? Then you go from there with a strong, good reference and a fresh, recent list of projects and awards or recognition to build from.

      Best of luck I know this is hard.

    3. Triple Anon*

      Thanks, everyone! I’m applying for jobs and reaching out to my network. I’ve made some progress. I wrote what I think was a great cover letter with a positive tone. I’m going to avoid mentioning the negative stuff unless it comes up during the interview process. Hoping for the best!

  103. Tuxedo Cat*

    I’m throwing myself a pity party right now. I know the advice is to never get your heart set on any job, etc., but I just received a rejection notice from a job that I felt was perfect for me. Being underemployed for almost a year is rough, and I’m just exhausted from months of job searching and interviewing. It’s taking a toll on my self-esteem, too.

    I’m not religious but positive energy my way, please?

    1. Emily S.*

      I’m so sorry. Sending positive vibes.
      (If I could send you some brownies virtually, I’d totally do it. Brownies make everything better. Or cookies. Or cake. Or ice cream….)

      1. Spider in a Meeting*

        Quit pushing your snacks on Tuxedo Cat! (total sarcasm, and a reference to yesterday’s post) ;-)

    2. MuseumChick*

      I’m sorry to hear that Tuxedo Cat. Let me just say, it is perfectly normal, and I would argue healthy, to feel bad for ourselves once in a while. I remember crying when I found out I didn’t get into a particular college (I was transferring schools) my applications had been exactly what the school was looking for, my interview had gone great. The interviewer even said something to the effect of “you are perfect for our school”. Wasn’t that blunt but that was the message. And one of the my professors at the school I was attending who wrote me an awesome recommendation letter had a husband who worked at this school.

      And yet, I did not get in. It hurt. Badly. And I cried about it. But life moved one. Year down the road I still sometimes think about how life would be different if I had gotten in. But then I may have never discovered my current career, gone to grad school, and meet some of the awesomest people ever.

    3. ginkgo*

      Job rejections hurt! It’s normal to feel this way and I totally feel you. Sending good vibes <3

      1. Kat in VA*

        I have gotten six job rejections in the last 48 hours and I am definitely feeling the sting. One of which I really, really wanted and thought the interview went really, really well. I’m having a helluva time finding work after being out of the game for 20 years, and except for one short-term contract stint, no one wants to take the chance on me despite having excellent references from my last job. Onward and upward.

    4. Ali G*

      I hear you and feel your pain. I’m at the point where I can’t even find jobs I even kind of want to apply for. I’m working part time and it sucks. I feel like I’m not keeping up my end of the bargain I made to my husband. He’s so supportive but it makes me feel bad that I can’t get a job.
      I really hope things turn around for you!
      Sends all the good vibes….

    5. Anonymosity*

      Sending good vibes!
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      And here are some for everyone else in the thread today who may need them:

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  104. Forking Great Username*

    I graduated college last month and just started looking for jobs. One thing I’ve been feeling unsure about as I apply is whether I should address a sort of gap in my work history. I quit my last job in the summer of 2014, went back to school, and just graduated with my bachelors degree and teaching certification. When applications ask why you left your last job, I’ve been putting that I left to pursue higher education. However, this is a bit of a half-truth; I had my first child then, and originally quit to be a stay at home mom while going to school.

    I worry that it looks like I couldn’t handle school and work at the same time. But if I say anything about the reason why, I worry about looking unprofessional for mentioning my family life on a job application.

    (For further context, the job I quit was a retail job where I worked as a trainer and department lead. So it wasn’t some part time high school type job – I was there for five years and trained employees, set up new systems that reduced delivery/installation issues, etc.)

    Keep doing what I’m doing and just talk about the education piece? Or mention that I left to care for my children while pursuing my degree?

    1. EB*

      If I’m reading this correctly your resume wouldn’t look like it had a gap to me, really.

      2014 Retail Job ends
      Bachelor’s Degree/Teaching Certification, graduated 2018

      I think most people would assume the bachelor’s degree and certification would take four years to obtain? I wouldn’t bat an eye at that! Even if you had education experience prior to 2009. Because I can see where some institutions would not allow you to carry over many credits.

      So in my mind, even if you took time off prior to going back to school, I think you can still confidently say that you left the retail job to pursue your education. Even if it took several months to a year to get to that due to having your child.

      Of course I’m not in HR so I’ll let others chime in but I think explicitly mentioning the time off as a stay-at-home mom on your resume would be unwise and I don’t think it’s necessary.

      1. EB*

        Also, FWIW, plenty of people will quit jobs to pursue masters degrees full-time to get their education completed quicker. Some people have life circumstances that allow for that. So I guess I’m saying that I would see you leaving a retail job to pursue a bachelors degree much the same way. I’d just assume that you were able to be in school full-time without the need to work. I don’t think I’d need to know you had a child for it to make sense.

        1. Forking Great Username*

          Thanks! I guess I just have some nerves about being up against people who have jobs during their school years and volunteer activities and that sort of thing on their resume, but there’s not much I can do about that. But you’re right, I think putting it on there could hurt me. I’ll just have to focus on writing great cover letters and hope that plus my resume and strong letters of rec speak for themself.

          1. Humble Schoolmarm*

            I wouldn’t worry that much either. If you have good references from your student teaching and other education-related experience, you’re off to a good start. Be sure to brush up on all the jargon and acronyms for the district your applying to, though.

  105. MuseumChick*

    A friend and I were having this discussion the other day and I was interested to hear what others would say. What is something small/silly that would greatly improve your job? For me it would not have to give people bathroom breaks. Like, I get the flow of working and then phone rings that someone needs a bathroom break, can I please come up to the front. Seriously, I’ve half considered asking about it in job interviews.

    2. Forking Great Username*

      On the sort of opposite end, my job would be better if I was allowed bathroom breaks!

      (For those of you wondering what kind of job doesn’t allow you to take bathroom breaks, the answer is teaching. It doesn’t matter that they’re teenagers, legally we’re responsible for them and therefore I must stay in the room being entire time students are present.)

      2. Susan Sto Helit*

        Teaching sounds just the toughest of jobs.

        A friend of mine recently left her teaching role – apparently she’s one of more than 25 staff members who’ve left in the past year, most of which haven’t been replaced. I don’t know what proportion of staff that is, but it’s a worrying sign.

      3. Traveling Teacher*

        +10000000! I have so many teacher friends who have suffered UTIs as a consequence of needing to stay in the room all of the time, plus having hall duty during breaks.

    3. A Nickname for AAM*

      Not having to be the person who NEEDS a bathroom break. Running so short-staffed that your front line people can’t duck into the restroom for 3 minutes is ridiculous.

    4. Totally Minnie*

      Being allowed to use the office budget for a water cooler. We have a budget overage that would more than cover the cost, but since tap water in our area has been deemed safe to drink, we’re not allowed to spend money on bottled water. But the tap water tastes terrible and I prefer my water to be cold.

      1. KayEss*

        Similarly: being able to use office budget for birthday treats for staff. Nothing fancy, just donuts or grocery store cupcakes–the managers usually do it out of their own pocket, but the fact that they have to is a morale issue for everyone.

    5. Short & Dumpy*

      Not having the building’s AC set so cold that we all are in sweaters and wool socks and even the guys have space heaters running. (For inexplicable reasons, the floors in the building do not have individual HVAC control so the upper floors with full glass are sweltering and the first floor that is mostly concrete walls and has an overhang so no direct sun is a meat locker.)

    6. anonanon*

      An industrial Keurig. We have free coffee, but it is terrible. I would love to be able to make a good cup of coffee in the afternoon.

    7. Kathenus*

      Being allowed to wear shorts at work in the summer. I work in an industry that some staff regularly wear shorts, but at certain managerial levels it’s a departmental decision. My boss doesn’t think they are professional for our management team so we can’t wear them. Not the worst thing in the world, but it would be a little thing that would definitely make me happy if it changed.

    8. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

      Not having a supervisor that speaks to us like we’re naughty children. I like him otherwise, and he’s only my boss for as long as I’m on this particular job, but he’s really getting on my nerves.

  106. Poniez R Us*

    What would you do?
    My boss who is a VP is good friends with a coworker who is one level above me. He is mediocre at best. Everyday my other coworker and I take turns waking him up as he tends to rest his eyes a few times a day. He gets cranky when we wake him up but I do not think sleeping on the job is appropriate and the rest of the floor sees it. Our boss knows. Other coworker and I have told him multiple times.
    In recent months we found out boss and sleepy coworker golf on the weekends and have become close. I thought about going to HR about this but I have no clue what I would say or what the desired outcome would be.
    My boss once told me he got in trouble for a similar thing at a prior company. One of his direct reports complained to his boss about him being buddy buddy with another report and basically ignored her. I don’t think he understands to this day why his favorable treatment was problematic and here we are again in the same situation.
    Sleepy coworker gets treated much better than we do. He gets away with mistakes other coworker and I would get reprimanded for on the spot. Boss also leaves it to other coworker to manage sleepy coworker because he does not have the patience for sleepy coworker’s lack of technical knowledge or understanding. He is a slow learner and my boss expects people to pick up on things on the fly.
    What would you do? What would you expect HR to say or respond with?
    I feel this is wrong. We pick up sleepy coworker’s slack and get no recognition for it. I want to say something because I do not think a VP should be behaving this way especially given all the changes our organization is going through.
    Please tell me your thoughts and if I am being overly sensitive, please tell me.

    1. MuseumChick*

      I feel this is “Your work place sucks and isn’t going to change.” situation.

      I do think it’s worth seeing if HR can help. I would frame the conversation this way “I have a situation that I have no idea how to handle and I need some guidance.” Then tell them in a very matter of fact way what is going on. How co-worker sleeps, how often he sleeps, how you have brought it up to the VP but nothing has changed. And specifics on how this is effecting your work.

    2. Bill*

      I know that when we’re in the midst of these sorts of difficulties empathy is difficult, but it’s very possible that it’s due to a medical condition, which would really suck for Sleepy. Try to take a step back from this and approach it from a perspective of how this affects productivity instead of how coworker is sleepy *at* you. Then talk to your manager about how to deal with the issue.

      1. Poniez R Us*

        So I thought it could be a medical thing. If it is, I feel horrible for my attitude. He says he sleeps because he does not eat enough carbs and has to wake up early to work out. He could have been making it up and covering for it.
        His sleepiness affects our workload. When he sleeps he does not work so we have to make up for it to meet deadlines.
        Thanks for this. I was genuinely worried about this possibility for a while.

    3. wayward*

      Why don’t you just stop waking Sleepy up and covering for his lack of skill? Then it would be up to your boss to deal with (or not).

      2. Friday*

        Third. Hell, I’d even talk in soft tones and dim the lights to keep him asleep longer.

      3. Kathenus*

        So very much this. If you keep waking him up and picking up the slack, what motivation does Sleepy or your boss have to change things. Let him sleep. Reminds me of when I was in school, in one class if someone fell asleep the teacher would keep everyone quiet including during changing periods/classes, and the sleeper would wake up later in a completely different class.

  107. Anonymosity*

    Blergh! Updates.

    It’s so hot. Difficult to look professional when you have a screening interview. Thank goodness it was at 9 am, when it hadn’t reached 90 F yet. Though offices are usually so cold I get to wear a scarf anyway.

    Yesterday, I had a screening interview for a law office file clerk job. The office manager asked me if I had a family or kids. I blinked and said “I can’t think of anything that would prevent me from doing the job….” She backpedaled and said “Oh, I was just trying to get to know you a little,” so I gave her the benefit of the doubt. I said “No, nothing like that, haha.” She said, “Oh we have some other people here who are single,” and then cut herself off like she’d realized how inappropriate that was. (Please God, tell me she was not thinking matchmaker.) The word “family” was bandied about a few more times. This firm is owned by a husband and wife, a situation I’ve had varying experiences with. The schedule would be ungodly for me; 7:30 am to 5:15 pm M-T and same but out at 12:30 pm on Friday. The office is nice, but I have NO idea how much it pays. I would have to have an interview with the wife/partner.

    I guess this wouldn’t be too bad if I really needed a job and it paid decently (though I doubt that), but I really want the proofreader job at the pet food manufacturer in StL that has dogs in the office.
    DOGS.
    IN THE OFFICE.
    YES I KNOW BUT DOGS.
    *crosses fingers*
    ————
    Also, I’ve talked before about the issue with having severe dyscalculia and how it cuts me out of certain jobs. But here is a really good example that may be easier for folks to understand.

    I saw a job today for a technical editor, in the exact city where I used to live in Cali. Although my last job was technically an admin job, I have experience (not tons) doing every single thing they wanted. Until.

    “Must know or learn SQL.”

    SQL does involve abstract math, which I cannot do. If a job requires writing algorithms or any kind of equations, I can’t do it. Unfortunately, the good-paying jobs require stuff like this. Or accounting. Or estimating. Or figuring mileage, etc. etc.

    *sigh* There was a job mucking out horse stalls and groundskeeping at the equine center (yay horses!) for $10 an hour, but my shoulder is blown and I don’t know how to drive a big mower. :(

    1. KMB213*

      There is a major pet insurance company with its corporate offices in my area. They, too, allow dogs in the office. I regularly scan their openings just to see if there’s anything that fits my skill set. No luck yet.

      1. Anonymosity*

        I’m assuming they have a policy about dogs in the office, as we’ve discussed here many times–keeping poorly behaved ones at home or away from people with phobias and allergies. If I get an interview, I will definitely ask about that, since a failure to make sure a perk doesn’t turn into a liability speaks to larger company issues.

        *please please please please please let me get it and let it pay awesome* I would have to move but that’s okay.

        1. The Ginger Ginger*

          If it’s the same one I’ve applied to occasionally when I think about moving closer to my StL family ;) ;) ;), I believe they do have some type of obedience/behavior requirements the dog has to meet.

          Good luck!!

    2. ThursdaysGeek*

      I use SQL every day, and do very little math. It can be used for queries where you’re finding this and that, which are related by the other, all using words and names, not numbers. Really, most SQL isn’t math at all. I think you should apply for the job.

      1. Anonymosity*

        I don’t, because if I can’t learn it, I’d lose the job. Plus housing costs in this particular town have quadrupled since I lived there in the early 1990s, and the admin jobs there don’t pay enough to save me if I had to fall back on one unless you’re bilingual, which I am not.

  108. cactus lady*

    Okay I know this has come up before but it would make me feel much better if I could hear some stories about workplace clothing mishaps. I wore a new shirt the other day and accidentally flashed the marketing manager because I didn’t realize that it let EVERYTHING hang out when I moved a certain way. I am so mortified. I went home at lunch and changed but still! Please help me feel better?

    1. Nanc*

      Not exactly an office mishap, but to this day I don’t wear skirts (dresses are fine!) without a slip. In second grade I was wearing the cutest vest and skirt my mom made me, went down the slide at recess, stood up and the button on my skirt popped off and my skirt fell down to my ankles–and I wasn’t wearing a slip. There I was flashing my 100% cotton undies bought on sale from the local White Front store (do those still exist?) in front of BOYS on the playground! I held it together but sobbed all the way home and bless my mother’s heart, she mended the skirt but sent it off to the thrift store even though I had only worn it once. She also went through my and my sister’s closets and firmly tacked down every button and hook on our clothes!

      1. Editrixie*

        I bought a beautiful tank or shell, all red and black and gold in a swirly pattern, but it was burnout velvet with a few small (like the size of a quarter) semi-sheer patches. I wore it to work under a nice jacket, only to discover, under the bright lights of the ladies’ room, that one of the not-really-so-semi sheer patches was centered exactly on my chest, and the infrastructure of my underwire bra was clearly visible. The jacket didn’t button up high enough to cover it, so when I got back to my cube I resolved that people would just have to talk to the back of my head that morning; I was not turning around or getting up for anyone. At lunch, I raced over to the nearby mall and paid too much for a boring but much more discreet top.

        I still have that tank — it’s useless as clothing, but so pretty I can’t bear to toss it.

        1. Susan Sto Helit*

          If the top is as beautiful as you say, wear it! My rule with clothing like that is that no one should be checking my chest out closely enough to notice anything that shows through a sheer patch anyway. If they are, and do, then that’s on them.

          The other thing you could do is pick up a stretchy bralet/crop top type thing (generally found with the women’s underwear/shapewear/camisoles in the store). I wear them on their own, but I’ve also been known to throw one of those on over a bra, but underneath something that needs a little bit of help in terms of coverage. I’m wearing one right now under a dress that would have too low a v-neck for the office without it. A camisole would bunch up round my waist, but these don’t – they’re perfect for the job.

          1. Editrixie*

            Sensible advice, well suited to your awesome user name! It just seemed funny, the idea of wearing another tank or camisole *under* a tank, but perhaps something stretchy and not-obvious would work. I’d certainly love to wear it again. That top is one of my disappointments in life; it was one of the first really nice pieces of clothing I bought for myself on one of my first real jobs, and it’s languished in a drawer for years.

        2. Manders*

          Is it possible to wear a camisole under it? I’m annoyed by sheet tops on principle, but sometimes I find one I really love that pairs well with the right color of camisole.

      2. nonegiven*

        I remember a Nancy Reagan story where she stood up after a lunch interview at the White House and her skirt fell off.

    2. Ali G*

      To this day, I still don’t know how this happened. I was on the metro headed to work, when I noticed a few different men (and some women) furtively glancing in my direction. I am always a “stander” on the metro and I use the vertical poles because I am not tall enough to reach the over head ones, and I typically ride in the front of the car. So I am literally on display to the entire packed car.
      At some point I looked down and realized that somehow the top 3 buttons of my blouse had popped open and my entire bra was front and center to the entire metro car!! I was mortified. To make matters worse it kept randomly popping open all day. I finally had to find a pin from a friend and pin it closed. I threw it out when I got home.

      1. Anonymosity*

        I keep tissue packets in my purse and have been known to hand them to people in need. I shall now add safety pins to my arsenal, in case I need one or someone else does, because this sucks.

    3. Susan Sto Helit*

      I got my period unexpectedly in the office once. I was wearing a tunic over tan leggings, and it had made it onto my leggings before I realised.

      I wish I could tell you the trauma stuck with me to this day, but it evidently hasn’t because I can’t remember what I did about it. I remember discreetly taking the leggings off, then…???

      1. Detective Amy Santiago*

        I had a similar experience with a coral dress. I ended up leaving work early.

      2. Ron McDon*

        I was on holiday in France when this happened to me. I was wearing light coloured shorts with a short top over which didn’t cover the stain. I thought I was just a bit hot and sweaty, and didn’t realise my period had arrived in a very full-on way.

        Luckily my 7 year old son pointed at it and said ‘what’s that on your bottom?’. I said ‘oh, I must have sat in some dirt’, then took my cardigan and tied it around my waist until we got back to the campsite … that was embarrassing!

    4. Inspector Spacetime*

      I have two. One time I was walking to work and some guy stopped me on the street. My initial reaction was alarm, but it turned out that the entire back of my dress was unzipped. All the way down. I’d been walking for almost twenty minutes.

      Also, a few weeks ago I realized that I hadn’t buttoned the button at the neck on the back of my shirt. It didn’t reveal anything but a largish triangle of skin, but still. It was clearly supposed to be buttoned. This was after lunch at this point. Why didn’t anybody say anything???

      1. Inspector Spacetime*

        I have also worn my shirt inside out to work multiple times. I am not a morning person.

        1. Manders*

          I’ve caught my dad, a very absent-minded professor, wearing his polo shirt inside out and backwards. And once, I didn’t realize until my boss called me into his office for a serious meeting that I was wearing my dress inside-out.

        2. Totally Minnie*

          I did this once, at a meeting with my boss, my grandboss, and the reps for our most important vendor. We had been in the meeting for about an hour and when we took a short break I slipped into the ladies room. I went to roll up my sleeves to wash my hands, and that’s when I realized my blouse was on inside out.

    5. Amaryllis*

      If I find something I like, I buy it in multiples. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve come to work in one brown flat and one black flat.

    6. The Ginger Ginger*

      So this one wasn’t mine, but I got on a bus several people back from a woman the other day who was wearing a truly beautiful cream dress with blue flowers up the sides and front. The back? Totally cream, no flowers. Beautiful dress. Could also see her pink leopard spotted briefs through the back of that beautiful dress. Not just a little see through. A LOT see through. I probably could have counted the stitches in that underwear – like even skin colored panties would have been clearly on display for the whole world. My friend needed a slip. It was 5 pm, this gal had been at work all day, and I am sure, no one had said a word. I DESPERATELY TRIED to get to this woman, because damn, you do not DO THAT to a sister, but it’s rush hour on the CTA, I couldn’t talk to her without shouting over all the other commuters, and that would have also been very bad. So I wasn’t able to warn her. I got off before her and I STILL couldn’t get to her through the crowd. I tried to give some meaningful eye contact, but she was reading. I still really, really hope someone else managed to give her a heads up. Because unless she ever turns around in a mirror in a well lit room, she is NEVER going to realize she is flashing the world in that very beautiful dress. I hope she doesn’t like thongs.

    7. Former Admin Turned Project Manager*

      I’ve had multiple crotch-seam mishaps and I am not sure quite why; I don’t wear my pants tight, but the seams just seem to give way at the most inopportune times. Once when stooping down to get something out of a low drawer and the seam just ripped; I tied my knit shawl around my waist to cover the gaping hole across my butt. One time was a pair of black pants in which the front section decided to massively unravel (and I was wearing fuschia underwear, so I can only hope I wasn’t walking around for too long with that on display); as soon as I looked own and saw that, I grabbed my sewing kit and went to the restroom to mend it. The final time was just a few weeks ago; I once again caught a glimpse of the unraveling seam, but didn’t have access to a kit. I just stayed at my desk as much as I could to avoid being seen and put the pants in the pile of things to mend.

    8. Brownie*

      Yup. Just realized I have on one black and magenta with white sole sneaker and one grey/silver with grey sole sneaker on today because I didn’t turn on the living room light this morning and just jammed my feet into the two sitting next to each other. Thank goodness I can hide my feet under my desk all day.

    9. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

      I had a dress with a huge bit of interfacing, like a big black bib, down the back. I didn’t realise it was hanging out until I met a friend for after work drinks and he started laughing at my weird dress.

  109. owlie*

    how to deal with coworkers who mute the phone line and talk amongst themselves when on a conference call? this has resulted in distraction and missed content for the offenders and other attendees. i am much lower in seniority than the offenders, have different management chain.

    1. Tipcat*

      How is it your job to deal with them? If it affects your job, document it. Otherwise, is it your circus?

  110. Mariella*

    So, ive applied for job, and they have sent back an application form. Which is obvs fine, but im finding some of the questions incredibly invasive for an office based finance administration role. .

    Eg. Are you a smoker? If so how many a day?
    Would you be willing to undergo a medical examination?
    How many children do you have?
    Salary when you first started working at your current employer, what is your salary now. (Also this but with bonuses).
    How many sick days have you have younhad in the last 2 year? Why were you off?

    I dont know if this matters but this is UK based and have never had to do anything like this before. Very red flaggy for me, not sure what to think really. Im leaning towards just removing myself from the process.

    2. HR Expat*

      That’s really dodgy for a UK-based application. I would be really concerned with this company.

    4. froodle*

      I think the children one might actually be discriminatory unless it somehow relates to the core duties of the job – I’m in the Isle of Man, so crown dependency rather than the UK, but it would be a no-go here and a lot of our laws come straight off the English books.

    5. Boy oh boy*

      Completely weird for the UK. I’d be very suspicious of the medical exam question, and for an admin role no less! What ARE they planning to do to you?!

      Overall this seems like a company that will try to micromanage your health and/or personal life. RUN AWAY!

      1. Mariella*

        In their defence, they put if the medical examination was ‘necessary’… and then didnt clarify what would constitute necessary.

    6. Frankie*

      ?????????????????

      I’d honestly be so curious that I’d send an email asking why they needed that info, just to see the answer.

  111. Job created just for you?*

    TLDR: what sorts of questions should you ask when considering a job that would be created especially for you?

    I used to work at Company A, but left (amicably) about a year ago. I now work at Company B. Two other people at Company A were Michael and Karen. Karen still works at Company A, but Michael has moved on to Company C. I worked pretty closely with Karen but not with Michael, and in fact now do occasional freelance work for Karen.

    Karen and Michael still interact a fair amount, professionally and personally (both are about 25-30 years older than me, if that’s relevant), and Karen had the idea that I should work for Michael at Company C, doing similar work to what I do for her in freelancing. This would be a position Michael would have to create, not a current opening.

    I’m meeting with Michael next week to discuss, as we are both open to the idea in theory. I don’t like working at Company B much, and hiring me for this particular thing would be beneficial to Company C. What sorts of things should I make sure to ask Michael about, given that this position is not yet created? I’m a little wary that it could end up sounding great on paper, but then not match up/live up to expectations in reality.

    1. The Ginger Ginger*

      So I have worked in a role that was created especially for me (or at least, I was the first person to work in that role and it was created with me in mind).
      And the questions you need to ask aren’t too different from any other job, but the answers are going to tell you whether they have really thought through this new role enough or if you’re going into a super vague and unstructured situation.

      1. What are they expecting this role to accomplish in the first 90 days? 6 months? 1 year?
      2. How will they be measuring the success of the person in this role? What metrics will they be looking at?
      3. Do they have a job description for this role, or will the person in the role be helping to write the job description?
      4. How much time do they expect the person in this role to devote to each stated priority/task in a given week?
      5. Who does the role report to? (all other manager-y questions kind of apply here too)
      6. How does this role fit into the team/department/larger company business strategy?
      7. What level is this role? (Entry? Senior? Somewhere in between?)

      1. Job created just for you?*

        Thank you – that’s a hugely helpful list. My sense is that it’s been minimally thought through at this point, which makes me nervous, but it also means I could have the opportunity to mold it in my vision.

        1. The Ginger Ginger*

          I would talk through that with them too, then. Just to be aligned on the level of input/collaboration they’ll expect/allow/want/whatever from the person in the role. And to get a feel for how open and communicative the manager of the role will be. This is where all the typical questions you have re: the manager and their management style will be really important. If the manager is open and flexible and communicative, that can be an awesome experience, but if they’re not? It’s going to be an exercise in sheer frustration and will burn you out really fast. So it’s not necessarily an issue if they don’t have a clear picture of the role yet (assuming they DO have a clear picture that the role will fill a long term need), but you need to talk specifically with the hiring manager about hey they see the collaboration to build and flesh out this position going post-hire. And maybe even discuss a rough timeline/roadmap. Will they expect to have the job description firmed up within the first 90 days? 6 months? Longer? What happens if the needs of the role shift drastically (and how likely is that)? If there’s any chance of that happening, what happens if it shifts outside your expertise? Will they give you the opportunity for additional training?

          OH! That reminds me – I forgot to add in my above list – you want to know what opportunities will exist for continuing education/training for the person in this role, and what the career path looks like for this role. So it would be good to also ask about those things.

          1. The Ginger Ginger*

            Though that career path one…eh, sometimes people get weird about that question because it can sound like you’re already trying to leave the position behind. So, that can also be saved for much later (like your annual review). You basically just want to try to feel out whether there’s any possible mobility within the org from this position or if you’d have to leave the company to advance when the time comes.

  112. MassholeMarketer*

    Are telecommuting part time jobs you can do from your home a thing? I have a full time job in marketing (job searching since March) and would really like to take on something possibly in social media, just on the side. Where would I find something like this?

  113. Regina Georgia*

    My coworker is being an inexplicable jerk about headphones. He was working on selecting a TedTalk for a workshop and has been listening to a bunch every afternoon with no headphones for about a week. Each time it’s happened, I asked that he use headphones. Each time, he said he was surprised I could hear the computer (we’re in adjacent cubicles, and is it really still surprising on day 3?) but didn’t have headphones, this was really important for him to work on, and he’d bring some the next day.
    At one point in the week, I had my headphones on so I could focus on a project without his TedTalk background noise. He needed to talk to me about something and I didn’t respond when he walked up behind my desk and said my name. He then made a comment along the lines of “guess headphones aren’t all they’re cracked up to be.” I laughed it off and said I’d lower the volume of my music so I could hear him, as long as he stopped playing the TedTalks openly. The TedTalks did not stop, but it’s impractical for me to work with headphones all the time (we’re a pretty collaborative office) so I stopped wearing them unless when absolutely necessary.
    Now, it’s like he has a personal vendetta against me for asking him to use headphones. Another coworker turned on a webinar without immediately putting on headphones (it was clear she was fumbling for them in her desk) and he sang out “Hey Karen! Regina wants you to wear headphones!” A pop-up ad started playing on someone’s computer and he turned to me and said “Aren’t you going to tell Gretchen to wear headphones?” I even heard him explaining to a relatively new coworker, “Make sure you wear headphones so you don’t upset Regina.”
    But even with all of this, he still doesn’t wear headphones and watches videos and listens to stuff on his computer without them. Nobody else has said anything to him, but I sit closest to him and it’s possible it’s quiet enough for everyone else to ignore easily.

    1. Wendy Darling*

      omg what a jerk. I didn’t know it was legal to hire 13 year olds for office jobs.

      I don’t even have any advice but… what a jerk!

    2. Antilles*

      Your co-worker is a jerk. You can get a cheap-but-usable pair of headphones for $10 and just leave them on your desk/in your cabinet/whatever; the fact that he’s resorted to name-calling and mocking rather than just *solving the problem* tells you all you need to know.

      1. Wendy Darling*

        Also many companies will issue you headphones or a headset if they’re necessary for your job duties. Where I work many people have personal headphones they prefer to use, but we can definitely have a set issued by IT if we need them.

    3. Bea*

      You should call him out for the rude AF comments that he’s making to other coworkers. Seriously even just a “Wow your’e really salty aren’t you? Grow up or I go to HR to have you written up for making my work enviornemnt uncomfortable over asking you to use headphones.”

      He’s carrying on this crap and it needs to be stopped, this is the kind of crappy attitude that will lead to problems.

  114. Teapotastrophe*

    Does a background check show things that you’ve been indicted for but haven’t gone to trial for? Asking for a friend. There’s a pending criminal charge for…something stupid, but he hasn’t yet gone to trial, and I have no idea how long that will take. He just got fired for something stupid (it’s a trend), and I’m not sure how difficult finding a new job will be since most (all?) jobs require a background check.

    1. Background Screening Co Employee*

      Most states allow the use of arrest records, so I’d assume that it’ll show on a check.

    2. A Nickname for AAM*

      One of my friends does pro-bono law for people who were arrested but not charged or convicted. In some states, not being charged or convicted would drop the arrest from the record. In our state, it stays on the record unless you hire a lawyer to have it removed. So everyone in our state who was arrested would fail a background check for a job.

      Different states have different rules about what shows up on a background check, so check with your state and have your friend ask his or her lawyer for more guidance.

      1. Natalie*

        So everyone in our state who was arrested would fail a background check for a job.

        I mean, there’s no universal standard for failing a background check, it’s going to depend on what the hiring company looks for. Some companies will care about arrest/no conviction, some won’t, especially when unemployment drops and they struggle to find candidates.

        1. Teapotastrophe*

          He’s been arrested, but the trial isn’t for another couple of weeks. At this point, I don’t think trying to scrub his record is an option since I’m not sure if he can plea out or not. I was just wondering if he would even be able to find a job with the arrest/grand jury indictment on his record.

          1. Natalie*

            I’m not sure it’s something he’d be able to get a solid answer to without applying for jobs and seeing what happens, unfortunately. It’s probably worth googling the laws in your state – even in states that allow use of arrest records there might be something like “ban the box” that applies. When he does fill out paperwork for a background check there’s usually a space to disclose and sometimes they spell out what they’re looking for, that might provide some helpful guidance.

            (If you’re not familiar, “ban the box” allows for use of criminal background checks in hiring, but requires the employer to wait until later in the process and prohibits the employer from asking about records on an application. That’s the “box” being banned. In my state you can’t check until you’re making a conditional offer of employment.)

    3. jack*

      Anecdotal alert: it did not show up on the initial background check for an employee hired where I work about 2 years ago. He had been charged but eventually they were dropped. I believe when we did the full background check (after a probationary period) was when we found out.

    4. Criminalpastanon*

      Hi! I got arrested a few years ago for a class b drug related misdemeanor and had to take a drug diversion class and have good behavior for size months for the court to not press possession charges. I filled out a form and passed in copies of all my relevant court paperwork with the district I got arrested in and had to pay like $200 in fees and the arrest and the charge eventually got expunged from State records because I completed the conditions of my plea. While if you Google me the public record of the police log shows up on the first page stating I was arrested, it did not show up on an employment background check or the background check program used by cops (a relative has access to the system and checked for me). This is highly state specific and specific to what the charge is. I am not a lawyer but my guess is he can’t get anything cleared until a ruling is made in his case.

  115. HR Expat*

    Just getting ready to head into an internal interview. Haven’t done this in a couple years; I’m a little nervous!!!

  116. ChocoWombat*

    The (amazing) good news: I GOT AN INCREDIBLE JOB OFFER AND ACCEPTED IT!!! And after an agonizing couple weeks waiting for the background check / paperwork to clear, I’m finally *officially* in!

    The bad news: I happen to know that there was an internal temp person who had basically been doing this job before on an interim basis, who had applied for the job and obviously didn’t get it. While I wouldn’t say she’s a friend, she is a professional colleague of mine who I’ve worked with before. Over the past couple weeks while waiting for the background check, I noticed she viewed my LinkedIn profile several times every few days or so – I assume she probably got the news early. I don’t believe she knew I was applying. What should I say to her (if anything) to make sure this relationship stays smooth? I really like working with her from our previous interactions and I do genuinely feel bad that she was passed over, even while I’m SO excited for this job for myself.

    1. BF*

      Be respectful of the work that has been done. I was an interim boss but didn’t get the full-time job. (Yay disabled veterans’ preference and Priority placement rules)
      The new guy showed up and all he talked about was how he was going to rebuild the program and bring it back to life! (We didn’t know it was defunct.) How he was going to make big changes and improvements! How we just didn’t know how to work the system. (Most of which were completely outside our funding guidance). Then he would tell me he felt that that the staff were being distant and chilly. Did I have clue to why? (Because he spends all his time implying they are incompetent and slackers.)
      This kept up for several weeks until he went to some training and the national directors talked about how great our program is and how he was lucky to inheirit such a talented staff. Our program were used in several places as examples of how to do things well.

      1. ChocoWombat*

        Thanks for the advice!! That is really good to remember and I definitely plan to take as much of a learning mindset as I can when I am training in, rather than assuming I know better than people who have been there for a long time.

  117. YetAnotherFed*

    Question regarding a frozen dinner left in the freezer! I may have left a frozen dinner in the work freezer before I went on vacation 3 weeks ago. The janitors are supposed to remove everything from the freezer and fridge every Friday but since this was a standard Amy’s Dinner they have not touched it. So this dinner has been left at least one Friday and is still there, no label to indicate whose it is. Am I on fair grounds to eat it myself or should I put a note on it that if not claimed by 6 pm I will take it?

      1. YetAnotherFed*

        Matches what I would have bought over at the grocery within walking distance from work. I wasn’t sure whether I had eaten all the ones that I had bought before I left for vacation. Since I was gone for 2.5 weeks I could tell that this dinner wasn’t touched by the janitorial staff even though it was over the Friday deadline.

      1. YetAnotherFed*

        I decided that it was probably mine due to it being vegan, so I’m going to eat it.

  118. Lily Rowan*

    Just want to offer a shout-out to my fellow fundraising folks with June 30 FY end — you can do it!!! Just two more weeks!!!

    Back to the mines….

  119. Emily*

    What are your best interview questions? We are trying to revamp our old questions and I’m looking for ideas.

    1. beanie beans*

      I was on a hiring panel recently and didn’t come up with the questions, but one that I thought provided some really good responses was around responding to change in an organization (which we are going through major organizational changes, but I think this can be relevant to many companies since change is inevitable).

      I think the wording was something like “Can you describe how you’ve responded to changes in your job description, changes to scope of work for a project, or major process changes that affect your work?” with follow up questions like – What did you learn from this experience? How did you help others adjust to the change?

    2. Flinty*

      My favorite is: “If you were building a team to work on a project with you, what qualities would you look for?” I’ve found that in that context, people are surprisingly honest about their strengths and weakness, and what they prioritize at work.

  120. Anon for this*

    I need advice on whether to ask for a raise. I’m primarily looking for responses from people that have a base salary plus bonus/commissions type structure but I’m open to advice from anyone. I’m an attorney. Let’s say for easy math that I make a $100,000 base. If that was my base, I’d also receive 1/3rd of my receivables that exceeded $300,000. From my understanding, that is a very generous bonus structure. That said, I’ve only hit it 3 years out of 7. The years I did hit it, I received $25k to $50k bonuses.

    I’m struggling with feeling like my base salary is low for a 9th year attorney. I’m in a small firm where we don’t really have partner/associate distinctions but I’m not yet a business owner. But, most firms, even those without such a generous bonus structure, expect you to bring in receivables at 3x your salary. So, part of me feels like I should just be glad that I am in good standing at the firm even when I don’t hit that metric.

    If I get my base raised it will be that much harder to hit the metric. If I don’t get it raised though, I feel like I’m losing money each year to inflation/cost of living. I haven’t had a raise in years but it is because of this generous bonus structure. My real base is $90k. I think I have a hangup that I should be making 6 figures by now. I am on the years I hit the bonus.

    I have an awesome flexible work environment and easy hours. I come in at 9 and leave by 6 most days. I should probably just stop complaining in my head and focus on bringing in more money to get more bonuses.

    1. Amaryllis*

      Hit up Corporette for this, they are very lawyer-centric and can give you useful data. Mention what you have here, and include your general geographic area.

  121. Totally Minnie*

    I just need to rant about something.

    I’m a relatively new manager. I’ve been in my position for just over a year. Since I’d only been in the position for a few weeks when it was time to turn in performance evaluations last year, my staff’s previous manager prepared them and turned them in. This is the first year I’m responsible for writing all the evaluations. Today’s the deadline to turn them in so HR can get them all reviewed and signed off by the end of the fiscal year. Our administration has scheduled a training session to teach managers how to write performance evaluations. The session will take place next Friday. A whole week after we were supposed to turn them in.

    I’ve been working on these stupid evaluations for two weeks. I’m supposed to run them all by my supervisor before I present them to staff to get signed, and there’s been something wrong with every single one. And I’m so frustrated because if they had scheduled the training for one month earlier, I’d actually know what I’m doing and what’s expected of me instead of shooting in the dark.

  122. anon-y-mouse*

    I have a managing dilemma I’d love some input from on. I have a summer intern who is a POC and uses they/them pronouns and an older gay man (fergus) who report to me. Intern has made several dismissive comments about white people/white culture – sometimes directed at or in response to man. Fergus takes this personally and is affecting his job satisfaction. He doesn’t think intern understands that he has also faced discrimination in his life. I see his point.

    I want to address it with Intern but I also don’t want to create an atmosphere where they don’t feel like they can express themselves. Is a reminder that there are many forms of discrimination/assumption making and we should presume to know someone’s experience (cultural/socio-economical/etc) appropriate.

    A recent example (relayed to me by fergus, but inline with behavior I’ve witnessed) – Fergus and another colleague are both avid whiskey enthusiasts and were expressing a desire to try an expensive bottle – Intern interjected and said this was a thing only white people would spend money on and apparently called it wasteful.

    2. self employed*

      It sounds like the intern is making race-based statements that are inappropriate. The intern doesn’t get to “express themselves” with abandon. None of us gets to do that. We all need to follow appropriate workplace norms.

    3. Natalie*

      Assuming US, civil rights laws apply equally to all races. The common social justice construction that one needs sociopolitical power to discriminate is not in play here. As a manager you are *obligated* to address this, because you are required to provide a work place free of *any* race-based hostility/harassment.

      2. The New Wanderer*

        Yes. Ask the intern to replace their “white people” comments with any other race or ethnicity and ask them if the comment would be acceptable. Spoiler: It would not. Doesn’t matter who’s making the in-group vs. out-group comments, it is not acceptable in the workplace.

    4. Tuxedo Cat*

      TIL I and my friends are white /sarcasm.

      Your intern is being judgmental and in a way that will hurt themselves in the long-run. I would pull your intern aside and tell them that making those kind of comments is hurtful and not constructive and not appropriate for the work place. You can’t talk to a coworker the same way you talk to your buddies. TBH, it doesn’t matter if Fergus has faced any discrimination in his life. Those comments need to stop.

    5. T3k*

      I don’t have any good wording for this, but when I’ve had to deal with this in the past (I’m more minority than white but I look white to a lot of blacks) I had to confront it head on. She needs to be told that her comments are unprofessional, and while she’s free to say whatever to her friends, in the workplace she needs to keep her assumptions to herself.

    6. Afiendishthingy*

      I’m a cis white woman and I’m basically on the intern’s side here. I see the point that apparently white people are protected by racial discrimination laws, so I guess probably intern does need to knock it off, but cis white gay men have so much privilege relative to trans people of color. I’d keep an eye on Fergus.

      1. Wendy Darling*

        Cis gay white men do have a lot of privilege relative to trans people of color, but that doesn’t mean it’s open season to be rude to them at work. The intern is absolutely allowed to THINK only white people like fancy whiskey and it’s wasteful, and they can even go home and say that to their friends or rant about it on twitter or whatever, but it’s not an appropriate comment to make at work to a dude who just expressed enthusiasm about his whiskey.

        Fergus should definitely be discouraged from getting into the Oppression Olympics with Intern, but Intern also needs to be polite and professional — it’s not cool to slag other people’s ethnicities, gender identities, or sexual preferences at work, even if the person you’re slagging is in the majority group.

        1. SciDiver*

          Yep, I would frame this as a “what’s appropriate to say at work” type of thing. You’re allowed to think and express any ideas you have, but it’s not usually professional to make comments that seems dismissive and disdainful for other coworkers to their face OR behind their backs (regardless of how much they might deserve it). We all have coworkers we don’t get along with for whatever reason, but we still have to be respectful and polite. If Fergus is trying to work the “I’ve been oppressed too ya know” angle, it might be worth reminding him of the above as well.

      2. Tuxedo Cat*

        In society, the intern probably has privilege than Fergus at least based on what was presented. I will agree to that. However, that doesn’t mean that Fergus is being a jerk or give the intern a pass to be a jerk. You can be a jerk or be prejudiced while lacking privilege.

        I’d feel differently if Fergus were being antagonistic towards the intern, talking about some topic in a way to exclude or be hurtful, or if the comments were different. But right now, it just seems like the intern is making comments about white people for no apparent reason. This happens sometimes, and it’s not cool.

      3. Delphine*

        I don’t think there’s any reason to “keep an eye” on Fergus here, and it’s weird to even suggest that…

      4. Self employed*

        Who has the privilege in society is irrelevant here. You can sexually harass men, for example. You can discriminate against anyone. The point of the law is to protect individuals. The intern’s comments are inappropriate and unprofessional.

    7. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I would address the comments as being inappropriate regardless of the fact that they mention race. In my opinion, saying “your hobby is a waste of money” is the disparaging part of what’s being said.

      2. Flinty*

        Agreed. Being openly disdainful of your colleagues is not professional (even if Fergus were being racist, there are other ways to speak up). This is a good opportunity for her to learn about office politics and that making fun of old white men talking about old white men hobbies is not a good use of her limited capital as an intern.

    8. Delphine*

      This is a great teaching moment. They’re an intern–this is the time to address this behavior! I don’t think your particular reminder is useful here. All you need to say is that all employees are expected to be professional, and part of being professional is being kind and not judging a person’s likes/dislikes, and that implying that someone is doing something because of their race can be considered workplace discrimination.

    9. Totally Minnie*

      I agree with everyone who’s said you should talk to the intern about it. But in addition to the race issues, I’d also tell them that it’s not a great idea to tell your coworkers that their interests are stupid and wasteful. It’s not a good look, and it’s not going to endear this person to their future coworkers. Workplaces require a baseline of respect and courtesy between employees, and intern is not currently meeting that benchmark. They need to be told to rein it in if they expect to be successful.

      1. Observer*

        That’s true. What they are saying is stupid and rude, even if it weren’t racist. Being rude, and making silly generalizations is not a good way to do well at work, generally speaking.

    10. Observer*

      Intern is out of line. You need to nip that in the bud because it IS going to affect their career and it’s not fair to Fergus. Even a straight white male who has had everything handed to him shouldn’t have to deal with this kind of stupid rudeness. And Fergus is not one of those people, nor will most of the people Intern will annoy over the course of time.

      It happens to be true that this will probably hurt Intern worse than it would hurt the stereotypical straight, white, privileged male. And that’s not fair. But that doesn’t change the fact that they are flat out wrong in their behavior, and it needs to stop.

      There are plenty of ways for someone who is “different” to express themselves that are perfectly acceptable. Being rude to others is NOT one of them.

  123. Incantanto*

    I’ve been given the task of implementing a sorely needed lab and sample organisation programme, which includes going through everything and doing a clear out.

    Much of upper management who use the lab are against it publicly because they can’t be asked,are hoarders (forund a chemical banned in 2001 today), are annoyed about the shorter than expected timescale for the first bit and various other reasons.

    Any advice on getting this implemented relatively painlessly/dealing with naysayers? I’ve not really managed something of this complexity before.

      1. Incantanto*

        Originator is the head of the company. so higher up,

        Giving it to me they are about the same level as the hoarders

  124. Annon*

    Who do you go to when HR is being ridiculous?

    Here’s the situation and sorry if this is long but I’m trying to give context. Someone I am extremely close with has had a rough year in terms of health.

    This is a dedicated and decorated employee with 20+ years of loyal employment. We’ve recently gone through a merger and the parent company is slowly getting rid of several of the “old timers”. This employee has been targeted. Last year because of a major surgery, he was out for three weeks. His doctor wanted him to be out for twice that long but the company was acting unethically and put him on a PIP for not being able to perform his job duties (bc of all his health issues) – pretty sure this is borderline illegal.

    Fast forward to last week, this employee was in a great deal of pain, went to the ER and needed to have emergency surgery. He informs his boss immediately and is out of work for a week. Within his team, there are no issues. This employee did everything you’re supposed to do when things like this happen. However, HR has an issue with it.

    “You need to plan better.” Excuse me, what? This was EMERGENCY surgery. What was he supposed to do? Tell his doctor, I’m sorry, I can’t be sick right now let’s schedule this emergency for a month out?

    Then HR proceeds to call him in for a meeting, again telling him that he needs to plan better and he’s been out sick too much. (Which btw, he has not because he’s been too nervous of his job security to even call out sick when he’s actually sick. Aside from the surgery last year and the week out for surgery last week. He’d used two days due to pain related to the issue that caused this emergency surgery.) And in their view “there’s no way that he can have enough sick time for this.”

    The employee didn’t know his exact sick time hours but knew he should have had more than enough. Upon checking, he had 185 hours of sick time. More than plenty to cover the 40 hours he was out.

    Bottom line is our HR is stupid and doesn’t know how to do their job correctly. They’re causing this employee unnecessary stress and it is making me so mad.

    Who would be the right person to contact about this? I’m not saying I should be the one to report it but who would I recommend this employee go to? We have an ethics liaison but I don’t think this is an ethics issue.

    2. Amaryllis*

      It IS an ethics issue, in the context of targeted ageism that you’ve mentioned. Call the liason.

    3. CustServGirl*

      Can this employee’s manager step in as a supporter/HR buffer? If his boss is happy with his work, he or maybe a grandboss should be able to talk to HR about this.

      I hope your friend heals quickly and the stress of this issue with HR is resolved!

  125. Careers and jobs tool O-netonline*

    Just learned about this resource: O-netonline dot org. O is for occupation.
    We get a lot of questions about figuring out how to make career choices, and how to describe jobs, here. This has an “interest inventory” that gives you ideas about the kinds of things that might interest you, links jobs by those interests, describes jobs in great detail (background, education/training, knowledge, skills, activities need/used) and more. It was recommended to me as a way to look for kinds of jobs that would draw on my skills and interests in ways I hadn’t thought of. It’s sponsored by the US Dept of Labor, so it’s US focused but more broadly applicable.

    Happy Friday

    1. Tipcat*

      Thank you.
      Google could not find it when spelled with *, but could when spelled onetonline dot org.

  127. Colorado CrazyCatLady*

    For employment tests that test you on your technical knowledge, is it generally expected that you’ll only get the job if you get a 100?

    1. wayward*

      Not necessarily. It might just be used to weed people out who clearly have very little appropriate technical knowledge.

    2. raktajino*

      In my experience, 100% isn’t required. My team had a job opening this year and I wrote the technical knowledge test. We set it up so that you could show what you knew, whether you were a superstar, proficient, or frantically googling tutorials. We offered interviews to everyone who showed proficiency and ability to follow instructions. (This was in addition to other qualifications of course.)

  128. Elle Gee*

    Question for those in research. I’m starting my job hunt and I’ve only had two professional jobs, both in research in academia. I hear from lots of people that private industry pays better than academia or government (think public health institutions), but I’m having a hard time researching and brainstorming what that means! I know that sounds dumb, but ‘private industry’ is so broad that the only thing that pops into my head is pharma. Can anyone give examples or insight into where research jobs can be found outside of academia? examples of what research roles in private look like, where they are etc.?
    I would really appreciate any info people can provide!

    1. Inspector Spacetime*

      Can you offer more specifics about what kind of research you’re looking for? My friend works in a biotech lab.

      1. Lindsay Gee*

        for context I work in health research, mixed methods but mostly qualitative. think health sci mixed with social sciences. so interviews, focus groups, some quantitative analysis

        1. The New Wanderer*

          Look at hospitals, tech start-ups, and even large well-known tech companies with an interest in health (apps, software, etc). Also medical device companies and companies that provide the health management software to hospitals sometimes want people who can run user evaluations for their products. The job descriptions usually include lines about qualitative/quantitative data analysis, and experience with a variety of data collection methods.

          My experience of industry research vs academic is that industry wants faster results and is generally less concerned with scientific rigor. Maintain it when you can, but expect that a lot of times they will be happy with a 3-person user panel and not happy with an evaluation design that costs “too much” even if it’s the best (or only) way to get valid data. Often your expert opinion will carry as much weight as user data, if they really want an answer fast.

    2. Cedrus Libani*

      There are plenty of jobs outside big pharma, though there are different markets for different skill sets.

      Agriculture is a big growth area. Most of the roles you’d find in pharma are also needed there. There are other fields that do R&D involving biology and/or chemistry, including biofuels, cosmetics, and food companies.

      If you are more on the epidemiology end of things, my understanding is that a lot of these jobs are government, but nonprofits, think tanks, and insurance companies might also want some analysis of how bad a given public health issue will become and what might be the best strategy for mitigating it. You could also get into running clinical trials.

      Also, if you look around your workplace, you’ll likely see tools of the trade. Reagents, equipment, software packages, etc. Someone has to make these things.

    3. Tuxedo Cat*

      Are you a part of a professional society? That might help if field is pretty established.

      This is a good question- I work with folks in STEM and when we talk about “industry”, it’s a nebulous idea.

  129. life coach?*

    Anyone ever use a life coach on here? What certification do you look for? What help did they provide? Thanks!

    1. saffytaffy*

      The only thing I know about life coaches is this: I know 2 people personally who have advertised themselves as life coaches. One has a 6-month certification to provide therapy, but did not go to college and isn’t licensed. The other has a degree in nutrition. Both of them are intensely shallow, self-absorbed, and manipulative people. They boh have very submissive partners and friends; one calls her best friend “my ugly duckling.” They live in different cities and are of different generations. But since they’re the only life coaches I know, they’ve colored my perception of the field.

    2. Tried it.*

      I did. There is no reliable certification, basically anyone can hang out a shingle (as the other comment noted). And they claim to / can address a huge, wide-ranging set of “stuff.” Mine came through a personal referral from a friend, when I was in a major low-point with an awful boss. Friend had been in a similar situation. Basically, she kind of provided low-grade, professionally-focused therapy. She was a disinterested party who asked questions to help me get perspective on the crazy stuff I was going through. (Like, helping confirm, “No, even though your boss tells you you are incompetent, let’s look at all the evidence that you are actually extremely confident, and she’s being unreasonable.”) And gave me exercises to move past my anxiety about quitting the toxicity and starting my own business (a viable path out for me). It was the nudging I needed to formulate a plan to get past the negative and focus on my own future. Was it 100% perfect, no. But for a brief period, it was the kick that I needed to get out of the quagmire.

      Things to maybe look for: 1) A referral if you can. I don’t know if I would have done it without the recommendation. 2) A free “trial” session, to get to know the coach and their style and ask questions to see if you mesh at all or get the creeps. 3) Try to get a sense of how willing they are to mesh to what you are looking for. She asked up front about what kind of coaching I felt I responded well to, in life. And when she tried something that was not my jam, I told her and she adapted. (I don’t visualize. I just don’t.)

  130. Anon anony*

    I work with “Sabrina”- it’s just the 2 of us. Sabrina has seniority, even though we both have the same title. Everyone knows her and directs requests to her, which she then passes on to me.

    I was brought into the position because they needed more help to help with work flow, but other times they call me the “back up for Sabrina” and I feel like I get treated poorly. People ignore me and I am doing a lot of the work because Sabrina passes most of it onto me.

    They all talk with her and treat her with respect, but if there is any sort of mistake made, I get yelled at. I feel like I was hired to be the scapegoat or something.

    There are files that are stored in Sabrina’s office that someone took out of and used without permission, but I ended up getting in trouble for that, not Sabrina, because I issued the documents. (I don’t sit in the same area with those documents- Sabrina does! Yet no one questioned her!)

    Sabrina is friends with the boss, so that complicates the matters… Plus she is friendly with everyone and they know her. I barely get a “Good Morning” from them.

    Just recently I was assigned a project and Sabrina was not. I’m super excited because it has to do with configuring new software, but Sabrina is a little upset, which I understand, but she will eventually be brought into the process. I sat with her and some other co-workers at lunch one day and I was basically mean-girled and given the cold shoulder.

    I’m working really hard and trying to remain positive, but it’s really difficult to do being surrounded by such negative and petty people.

    Help! What do I do?

    1. AnonGD*

      Part of me is very much “this work environment sucks and isn’t going to change” BUT if you want to stick around and make the best of the situation– play up this project as much as humanly possible and do not let Sabrina lay claim to any of it until she has a logical right to. If you’re not accustomed to advocating for your work start with this one. Say things that flatter yourself and the person you’re talking to. Tell one of the mean girls, “I know how hard you work on w and x, I’m really hoping my work on y will make things much easier for you because of z feature!”

      This also works for people giving credit to Sabrina for something she didn’t do and delegated to you. I’m not sure how to script it for your situation. But say someone is talking about a feature you implemented, chime in with a “*I’m* so glad to hear that!” no “we”! Sometimes being overwhelmingly polite and friendly in the face of nastiness can have an impact… sometimes it doesn’t.

      As a second step, pick your battles wisely but fight back on getting blamed for things you did not do. You don’t even need to be aggressive about it. I might try on something Alison suggests a lot– act shocked. “I don’t even work in the area with x documents! What makes you think I did that?!” In some toxic workplaces, I’ve gotten pretty far with the shocked response. I’m not a very emotional person so it takes some effort but it speaks volumes in the moment to muster up that kind of reaction.

      I suggest those two things because I think you want to define yourself as an individual as much as possible to get out from under being Sabrina’s “help.” If people know the work you’re doing it may be possible to get them to realize that they should go to Sabrina for x and to you for y. Sabrina has a niche carved out for herself and you need one, too!

  131. CustServGirl*

    Hi all! I’m curious to know about down-time in other fields. As my name implies, I am in customer service, so my days are occupied by phone calls, emails, and creating appointments. There seems to be an ebb and flow to the work- some days I don’t have time to blink and some days I’m trying to find things to occupy my time. Sometimes projects are time sensitive and out of the blue, other times they stall because I have to wait on other people to move forward with the work. I often browse AMA to fill time, but I get nervous about not looking busy. My boss sits directly behind me so I feel like she can see what is on my screen as all times.

    What do you guys do?

    1. Queen of Cans & Jars*

      I have an issue with not having much to do for a good portion of most workdays (that is another story entirely!), and it was causing me so much stress trying to pretend to be busy that I finally just bit the bullet and brought it up to my manager, essentially in the context of asking if there were other projects I could be doing. She pretty much said, do what you need to to keep busy because they want me around “just in case” there’s an issue that I need to deal with. It sounds like it’s a natural part of your job that there will be ups & downs, but it may ease your peace of mind to hear your boss understands that and is OK with you having idle time. Or she may have some other non-critical things that you can work on when you do have down time. It’s a win-win!

      1. Werewolves not Swearwolves*

        I second this. Talk to your boss. Maybe there actually is something you can do. Or maybe they are fine with you entertaining yourself so that you don’t lose your mind.

  132. Biscuit!*

    What is the typical expectation of “thinking” noise in an open plan office? I work at a creative agency and really like it, but I had one person on the side of the office I was previously sitting that drove me nuts. I’m talking whistling, singing while wearing headphones, treating his desk as a drum set (complete with pedal stomps and desk slamming), talking to himself, etc. I dealt with it for like a year and a half and finally got moved to the other side of the office, where I no longer sit next to the concert performer. Now, there are two guys on the row behind me that do the same things! Whistling, singing, drumming. I call them “thinking” noise, because it always happens when the office is quiet and everyone is hard at work. Looking around, it doesn’t seem to bother anyone else, but it drives me up a wall for some reason. I’m not expecting pin-drop silence (chatter and stuff doesn’t bother me), but these sharp noises in dead quiet really ramp up my nerves. Is this just common expected things in an office? Am I over-reacting?

    2. Werewolves not Swearwolves*

      I’m the same way…I just can’t tolerate it. My old office mate used to sing (unintelligibly too, which was somehow more maddening) and whistle a lot. He was otherwise incredibly nice and caring. It was like he just completely forgot himself. Normally I would have let a person know if they were bugging me that much but I didn’t have the heart to…

  133. Lentils*

    Just sort of a “is this a common thing” question because I legitimately have no idea: on my wife B’s first day at her former job, the coworker who was showing her around (who was head of payroll and not actually B’s manager) said “listen, if you need an advance on your paycheck, just let us know and we can arrange something.” She brought it up because B had been mostly out of work for awhile, besides one sporadic part-time job, so in that context it was framed as a one-time, “due to unusual circumstances” thing. She didn’t take advantage of it, but thanked them for the offer.

    But then, after working there for a few weeks, B noticed that advances on paychecks seemed to be a pretty common thing for this business. One employee got into a fight with HR about his paycheck being smaller due to an advance that he had requested, and this apparently happened often enough that he was known as “the king of advances.” It seemed like it was just a commonly accepted part of the office culture, not so much an emergency option. My wife is wondering: is offering advances on paychecks a common practice at other jobs, or was her former job just unusual?

    3. Natalie*

      I’ve had two jobs where it was common for people to get advances, one restaurant and one manufacturing facility. I imagine it is more common in industries where employees are poorer, for obvious reasons.

      1. AnonGD*

        Yeah, this is definitely not a thing at my work! But it’s also a solidly middle-class office environment.

  134. BAL or BLA(h)? Depends on the day!*

    Been waiting for the open thread to share this with y’all.

    I’ve posted in open threads before about how the wife of the president of my company (she is not an employee) has been interfering with my job (while the CEO is in Africa) and, generally, making my life miserable for the 8 hours a day I am here. Earlier this week, I think it was Tuesday, the president came into my office and reinstated all the duties his wife had taken from me and reassigned to others. He also gave me a $2 an hour raise, retroactively effective to my 60-day mark.

    Then, yesterday, the CEO told me he was going to Africa again. I felt a pit in my stomach (“I can’t do this again I can’t do this again I can’t do this again” was pulsing through my mind the whole time). Went on break and went in to chat with him. He had NO IDEA about all the things the wife had done while he was away. When I told him how she called a 30-minute staff meeting on a Friday afternoon for the sole purpose of announcing how she had reassigned my duties (and humiliating me along the way), I thought his head was going to asplode. He was PISSED (and he is a very very laid back dude….wears flip flops, shorts and baseball caps to the office every day). Told me to document every damn thing that happened, ordered me to forward him all of her emails (where she has assigned herself the lofty title of Sr. VP, Admin) and he insisted on listening to any voicemails she had left me. He then assigned me more responsibilities, but these are more along the lines of watching for any strange/suspicious activity and keeping the wife away from all other employees.

    I never ever would have had the courage to take my concerns to the CEO if it weren’t for this blog….I am an avid reader of past columns for advice and watch the comments closely. Alison’s advice is always spot on, but sometimes it doesn’t translate well for certain workplaces. I value the readers’ contributions and insight from their different industries and different size companies and manage (somehow) to put all of this insight and information together and pull the best of it to interact with my bosses. It really paid off this time, both financially and responsibility-wise. I got a raise 30 days ahead of time and was given permission to assess and act on situations as the CEO would (when the CEO isn’t here).

    I love you guys and gals and Alison and Alison’s cats and her husband and all of y’alls families and critters and neighbors and….I just love everyone right now! ;) Happy Friday all!

    1. CatCat*

      Wow! This is quite an update! I hope you will continue to update us on how things go when the CEO is away now that the CEO has the full picture and you have been given more power over the situation!

      1. BAL or BLA(h)? Depends on the day!*

        I was given permission to drop him an email if problems arise while he is in Africa, something I was very hesitant to do on the last go round. I feel….empowered….and that is such a great feeling.

    2. Inspector Spacetime*

      Just out of curiosity, is the CEO the same as the president? Is it his wife who is doing this or someone else’s wife?

      I’m glad the CEO listened to you, but I’m a little concerned about how nothing has been done proactively to keep this non-employee(!!!) from ordering people around.

      1. BAL or BLA(h)? Depends on the day!*

        No, the CEO and the President are two different people. The CEO has had problems with the Pres’s wife before. She hassled and harassed three people before me and caused them to leave. He emphatically stated that he is NOT going to allow that to happen with me.

        I have that same concern. We are a publicly traded company and he has tasked me with getting all the legalities of having a non-employee handling things here. It seems like when he is out of the picture (i.e., in Africa) the President takes that opportunity to let his wife run rampant. The CEO and Pres have been friends for a long time (~30 years). I wish he could leverage that relationship to keep her out of the office.

        1. Observer*

          That 30 year relationship explains a lot.

          Document everything – and keep copies of EVERYTHING on your own storage off of company servers and equipment. Because while both the CEO *and* the President seem to realize that wifey is a problem, President is clearly not ready to rein her in, and CEO may have a hard time walking the line between his friendship and his company, especially since his friend is way up on the food chain, too.

    3. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I’m confused. Is the President’s wife an actual employee of the company who happens to be married to the president or is she simply the spouse of the President and thinks this somehow entitles her to be involved in the business?

      1. BAL or BLA(h)? Depends on the day!*

        She is simply the spouse. She is NOT an employee of the company. Initially, she was just supposed to help him with stuff when he is home. Over time, as the CEO is spending more time in Africa, it has morphed into her being here when the CEO is gone. The CEO is not happy about this. The CEO was under the impression that I had been handed ALL the HR/payroll duties about a month ago. Needless to say, he was quite shocked to discover that not only had those duties (except payroll) been reassigned to our receptionist, but all of those duties had never been handed over to me. As a publicly traded company, we have to avoid even the *appearance* of impropriety. Half the employee file documentation is in her office 7 hours (driving) away from the office!

        1. Detective Amy Santiago*

          The simple solution is for CEO to tell President that if his wife doesn’t GTFO, he’ll lose his job. I mean, WTF.

  135. Cedrus Libani*

    So, it’s Pride season, and the corporate overlords have sponsored a float for the parade. They haven’t done this before.

    They may be realizing that their San Francisco offices aren’t actually that large (or that gay). We’ve gotten several emails from the HR types, explicitly encouraging straight people to ride in the parade.

    Pretty sure this is not a hill I care to die on, but am I wrong to be side-eyeing this?

    1. Afiendishthingy*

      queer person here. you’re not wrong. They’re seeing lgbtqa people as a market to tap into. Are they actually doing anything to help queer people, say, donating a portion of June’s proceeds to an organization that helps homeless lgbtq youth? I’m guessing no

      1. rosie*

        agree, they should put their money where their mouth is and donate money to LGBTQ causes if they want to be in Pride. otherwise they’re just using the parade as an advertising opportunity. not cool.

      2. ChocoWombat*

        As another queer person here, chiming in to say yes to all of these comments above!!! I hate when companies do this :( Pride shouldn’t just be a chance for you to market your corporation and let your (straight) employees party.

    2. OlympiasEpiriot*

      Side-Eye is the least of it! You are NOT off-base at all.

      If they are really wanting to be supportive (instead of just advertising) they should have taken all the money they would have spent on the float and given it to some supportive org, TransLifeline, Callen-Lourde, ILGLaw, PFLAG, or one of the many who are doing heavy lifting to support people.

    3. Inspector Spacetime*

      Yeah, that seems a little …

      I suppose it’s too late for them to just put the money into a LGBTQIA+ charity instead, huh? Maybe the company could donate to some LGBTQIA+ youth group and encourage the kids to ride the float or something.

    4. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I kind of disagree with the others. As someone under the LGBT umbrella, their presence in the parade would make me feel like they would be a safe place to work. I think it’s important for allies to be visible. My company was a sponsor for our local pride parade and my mom (who is not LGBT) signed up to walk with me.

      1. OlympiasEpiriot*

        But IS it a safe place to work? I mean, there’s some outfits that participate in this city’s Pride parade that I know from people who work within them are *not* safe.

        1. Detective Amy Santiago*

          That’s a fair question. My current company’s policies are very supportive and inclusive. They actually have a standardized policy on handling transitions for employees. But I guess some companies could participate as an act of performative wokeness.

          I hate our world and that these are even questions we have to ask.

    5. jack*

      ugh, my work just started an LGBT+ group except the problem is, as far as I can tell, it’s almost entirely allies. As a queer woman, I have no interest in being in an ally group.

      basically all I’m saying is, I feel you

    6. No name for this*

      I’m queer, and you are not wrong at all.

      Your company also shouldn’t be encouraging or pushing people to be in the parade.

      I know many LGBTQ+ people who would not be comfortable being in the parade, as well as many straight allies.

        1. Cedrus Libani*

          I was raised to respect other people’s safe spaces – if you must be there at all, you draw as little attention to yourself as possible, and you never forget that you’re a guest. I’ve been to Pride, but, like, in the cheering from a nearby rooftop sense, which is about what I’m comfortable with. I’m so straight that I make arrows jealous. Pride isn’t about me.

          And yes, I’m an ally, but…for crap’s sake, I’m from San Francisco, this is expected. Do I really deserve a parade to celebrate the fact that I have basic manners?

          1. Afiendishthingy*

            Thank you Cedrus. Actual allies know Pride isn’t about THEIR pride. The A in LGBTQIA doesn’t stand for ally.

            1. Afiendishthingy*

              Also queer employees might not want to march in the name of this company which seems like it’s potentially exploiting them

          2. OlympiasEpiriot*

            + A Bazillion.

            Our Pride parade has so many entities that I really feel icky about being there. Not my place to push back, but, I lost so many friends to homophobia and ignorance and hate over the years, I go and cheer everyone there for being themselves, however they want to and I privately mourn lots of people who I know would have really loved the party and I wish the advertising would go away.

  136. Afiendishthingy*

    I’m a licensed professional working a temporary contract position (maternity leave coverage). My contract ends in August. My director is retiring at the end of next week.

    For the sake of my coworkers and the clients we serve, before I leave, I want to do anything I can to increase the likelihood of my toxic coworker Lucinda being dealt with appropriately.

    Lucinda, Dinah and I are peers sharing an office. I have spoken to our director and our assistant director multiple times about how difficult Lucinda is to work with – she tries to manage me and Dinah, she interferes with our caseloads, she is condescending and manipulative, she gets defensive and lies if we try to push back. Last week Dinah hit her breaking point with Lucinda and our supervisor ending up coming up to our office to mediate because Dinah was sobbing after Lucinda told her “it’s difficult to trust you since you can’t seem to hold down a job. I can’t imagine what your resume must look like” (Dinah is also new, employed as a contractor through an outside agency, and isn’t sure whether she wants to renew her contract with this organization).

    Our supervisors have been sympathetic and unsurprised. People in other departments have complained about Lucinda as well. The supervisors have told Dinah and me that our work is excellent, and they thanked us for speaking up. I know our supervisor has spoken with Lucinda several times about her behavior, and he’s told me and Dinah that “this will be reflected in her performance evaluation.”

    Lucinda has been here almost two years. I’m worried management is not taking a hard enough line with her. I know there’s a good chance my managers suck and aren’t going to change, but can I do more to try and tip the scales? We have an executive director above our supervisor and I’m not sure whether she’s looped in to all this. I also want to make sure the incoming director is getting briefed on this. What can I do?

  137. Rhubarb Season*

    So, my friend is a Ph.D. student due to give birth in a few months. Her program is refusing to push back her various progress deadlines to allow for maternity leave. Like most graduate students, she’s an employee as well as a student – she works as a teaching and research assistant(they are giving her brief leave from that). Do they have any legal obligation to give her extra time? I feel like this might fall under FMLA, but I thought I’d see if anyone here knew something pertinent.

    1. Natalie*

      Ugh, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but almost all PhD students are *not* classified as employees even though they might work for the university.

    2. Lemon Zinger*

      She should talk to HR– this is going to be very specific to the terms of her employment.

    3. AnotherLibrarian*

      Yeah, this is really going to depend on the state, the program and everything else. I would speak to HR about what her classification is- exactly. I would make it more of a “Hey, I’m just wondering about….”

      Not all PhD students are eligible for FMLA, because they are not always classified as employees.

    4. sugarplum*

      No, probably not. She can get the short leave insofar as she is an employee of the university, but any “soft” leave on academic requirements is up to the program itself. She’s most likely subject to whatever rules govern any leaves of absence, which may be limited. FMLA will probably only apply to her status as an employee, not as a student, and most grad students are not eligible for FMLA because their “employment” is actually part of a stipend paid to them by the university that also pays their tuition.

    5. Lindsay Gee*

      I had a friend take a leave of absence/temporarily withdrew during her phd due to an illness. not the same thing exactly, but essentially they just put everything on hold and stressed that she wasn’t to be doing any work while she was off because that would be cheating. But it saved her from missing deadlines and she didn’t have to pay fees during that time.

    6. OtterB*

      I think her deadlines as a *student* are different from plans for her employment, which sounds like it is allowing some brief leave.

      I don’t think this is right but I don’t think it’s uncommon. Two things I can think of that she might pursue: First, does she have a good relationship with her advisor, and can her advisor request a waiver? Second, if there is a professional organization, especially one for researchers, in her discipline, she should look to see if they have guidelines that she could take back to the program to show, look, Our Professional Org says that extending deadlines for a student in this situation is a Best Practice. Or, is there a women’s organization in the field?

      1. Kris*

        Seconding these suggestions. Another possibility is campus Title IX coordinator. Or, is there a faculty member with some clout in the department who might be willing to go to bat for her? Older female professors who are 1000% done with sexist bullshit can be wonderful allies. :)

    7. Thursday Next*

      Most universities classify the teaching work that grad students do as part of their education, not as employment, so they can skirt labor laws.

      It’s strange to me that the program itself is being so inflexible. Does the program allow for leave and then re-entry? Has she presented the program with a revised progress plan, detailing how much leave she plans to take and what her new progress target dates would be?

      Is her advisor sympathetic at all?

      (I had my two kids while I was a Ph.D. student, and I took quite a bit of time off.)

    8. Former graduate student*

      Her academic progress deadlines are not likely to be affected by any employment-related protections. (And employment protections are a complicated issue for graduate students anyway.) I would be surprised if there’s a legal obligation to stop the clock on her deadlines, but I don’t know enough to claim definitively that there isn’t.

      These are the people I suggest she talk with to find out all her rights and get help:

      1) her grad student union, if she has one – even though I don’t think this will be an employment issue, the union probably has the relevant information, and may be willing to talk to the grad school on her behalf
      2) the graduate school (i.e., the “school”-level organization within the university that oversees graduate affairs) – I’m wondering whether there are official provisions for stopping the clock that the people she’s talking to in her major department aren’t aware of. It probably matters whether these are department-level milestones or school-level milestones.
      3) her committee chair and adviser (though I assume she’s talked to at least one of them already)
      4) any professor who could plausibly complain that having her leave the program altogether would adversely affect their research – they might be able to advocate for stopping the clock
      5) a faculty or staff member from a different department (even someone she doesn’t know at all!) who could tell her how their department would handle this situation – that might reveal that her department is an outlier and could be talked into changing.

      The suggestions from other commenters about who to talk to sound interesting too. I hope she’ll be able to figure something out.

  138. Conscientious*

    Let me preface this by saying I am working under the best boss I’ve ever had: he is compassionate, drama free, supportive and encouraging. He moves a little slower than I would like, but that’s a good thing, because I tend to go too quickly and can sometimes miss things in the process. This situtation is totally no big deal in the grand scheme, but I’m wondering how I can minimize this. In my mind, it’s very insignificant. But I know it will show on my evaluation, and hate that (I consistently score exceeds expectations in every area and max out any possible merit increase):
    I am exempt and work as staff in higher education. At the very end of the academic year, right after graduation but over the week that faculty contracts ended, I took a week’s vacation for my son’s wedding. I had the standard out of office memo and because I am a student as well as an employee, was monitoring emails sporadically, looking for my final grades. I was copied in on an email from an external party that has purview over our university, and work group in particular, about a meeting that was upcoming for some of the people I support. Because of a “changing of the guard,” not everyone needed at the meeting was copied, so I forwarded it to those not included (while on my vacation–the day before their contracts ended). It took about 30 seconds. I sent it out because I was unsure that they might not be monitoring emails after contract end and the meeting in question was upcoming very quickly. Then I was copied on another email from the same person sent to what amounts to my grandboss letting him know that she had received an out-of-office reply and that she was sending dates directly to him. Grandboss was within one week of retirement, moving out of state, and didn’t know who it needed to be sent to. I dashed off a quick reply all and let them know I had forwarded it to all involved (the meeting was to take place within 3-4 days after my return, and right before Memorial Day–she was polling attendees for their availability). Again, maybe 30 seconds. My boss, copied on the first forwarded email, responded back with a smiley face that “working on vacation was neither expected or encouraged.” FTR, he NEVER includes any emojis in his email. When I got back, he smilingly told me in our 1:1 the same thing. I have taken 2 other vacation days since and he reminded me both times “no work email.”
    Honestly, I really feel like he will bring this up on my evaluation. I know he is trying to protect me and manage expectations from not only outside constituents, but from internal as well. He has remarked in the past that it’s hard for him to find an area where I “meet” rather than “exceed” in my evals.
    How should I handle this–besides not responding to emails while on personal time–to let him know that I understand his concern.

    1. Inspector Spacetime*

      I don’t think is a big deal. If you wanted to, though, you could just casually say something in person like “Hey, I just wanted to let you know that I forwarded those emails because I just happened to be checking my email at the time while looking for my grades. I don’t normally work when I’m on vacation.”

      1. Conscientious*

        That was my response to him when he initially brought it up. The fact that he continues to bring it up is what has me flummoxed. I know he’s trying to be nice, but it’s just….weird.

  139. EddieSherbert*

    Just venting…

    Big deadline coming up next week. I had vacation last week. I had planned around it (putting in an extra 2-3 hours a day before my vacation), but forces outside my control (AKA other teams and management) threw me off track.

    Sooo my manager had to cover part of the project for me while I was on vacation. Imagine that I did steps 1, 2, and 3… then she covered step 4…. and now I’m finishing steps 5 through 10.

    Anddddd let’s just say her standards for quality magically went WAY down for step 3.

    Like to the point that I’m wondering if I should just go re-do it now even though deadline is fast approaching. Sigh. O-o

    1. EddieSherbert*

      **for Step 4. the material she did is quite obviously not up to her standards for my work on Step 4 normally…

    2. curious*

      on one hand leaving it as is so boss can see the difference might be a great way to shine and have the company take notice of how thorough you are

      on the other hand if it’s your name going on the project or the recipient thinks you have done it all, then I’d redo it.

      tough call. What are you considering doing?

      1. EddieSherbert*

        Alison will like this one – I actually went and talked to my manager! Haha.

        Long story short, we do marketing. Step 3 was some video recording and photography and now I’m editing it all into promo stuff. So I presented as “hey, I noticed you did this differently than I usually do and was curious about it. Should I be doing this differently?” and that led us pretty easily to “I noticed you didn’t an extra take for X, and I’m worried about Y thing I can hear in the background.”

        Manager told me it’s fine and to proceed and that she framed up the shots differently because she just likes that style better but my normal framework is totally fine as well?

        So I’m just continuing the editing process!

    3. KMB213*

      I would complete steps 5-10 up to your usual standard, then go back and redo step 4 if you have the time.

      This is really frustrating, though. I’m sorry you’re dealing with it.

      1. EddieSherbert*

        Normally, yes, but steps 5-10 is editing the stuff from step 4 (it’s a video and step 4 was record some stuff and now I’m editing it).

  140. Funny Creative Username*

    Help! I applied for a job with the state government two weeks ago and the application never specifically said anything about attaching a cover letter and I didn’t think anything of it and just attached my resume to the application.
    My application now says “Hiring manager review” (and has been at that status for a little over a week), so I was looking through some of the extra FAQs/general info on applying and such on the website and realized that I could have uploaded my cover letter (and pretty much anything else that I wanted, like my official list of references) to the application and now I feel like I really messed up!
    The job posting listed the hiring manager’s e-mail address, so should I send an e-mail to follow up on my application and include my official cover letter or just scrap the whole cover letter thing at this point and just send a brief e-mail to follow up?

    1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      I’d go ahead and send it. No need to get into a bunch of apologies and explanations — you can just say “I realized after the fact that I hadn’t been able to attach a cover sheet, so I thought I would send it to you directly instead. I look forward to hearing from you!”

  141. jiji*

    My friend in the office is an observant Muslim and was told she had to take a vacation day today for Eid. We were chatting about this the other day and a Jewish coworker said she is being forced to take a vacation day for Yom Kippur as well. However, the company gives us all Christmas off automatically regardless of our personal faiths, and tries to discourage people from working that day to “make up” a vacation day because the building charges a fee to any company who has employees come in on union holidays. The only way these employees can make up their days taken for religious holidays is to work on a weekend, and we don’t get paid overtime. Does anyone know if this is legal? We work in a large, diverse city with significant Muslim and Jewish populations–it shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone at this company that there are employees who observe religious holidays other than Christmas.

    1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      Super common, so I assume legal; everywhere I’ve worked (and everywhere any of my friends and family has worked) has closed for Christmas and not closed for other (non-Christian) religious holidays.

      One progressive organization I’m aware of doesn’t close for any holidays. Instead, they give 10 holiday PTO days for folks to use for any holiday they choose (in addition to very generous general PTO). I love that, but the downside is that there is no time that the whole organization is closed.

    2. Shelly2389*

      As far as I know it is legal. Every where I have worked, I have taken Yom Kippur off and used my own vacation time. It’s a powerful example of Christian Privilege which is not something that gets discussed often enough.

    3. Curious Cat*

      I believe this is standard practice; we use either a personal day or vacation time for religious observances. We close for the full week Christmas falls within, but at this point it’s really just a societal thing that most people are off around that time & is convenient. If someone wanted to take a different Christian holiday off, they would also just use PTO.

    5. Schnoodle*

      One way to navigate this from an HR standpoint is giving a floating holiday. Person can use it on their birthday or other religious holiday.

      I’m actually atheist and do think it’s a bit unfair. That said, I celebrate commercialism day (12/25) with family and glad I have the day off. I don’t even see it as a Christian holiday anymore.

    6. Anna Held*

      Christmas is a national holiday, so it’s legit. It’s comparable to July 4th. And yes, that’s Christian privilege, but it’s baked in, not on the company.

    7. Hamburke*

      I’ve worked in schools – they don’t close for Christmas or Easter, they close because a huge percentage of students won’t attend during that time period which will count against them in the instructional time requirements. so if they plan it in, it minimizes unscheduled days off.

  142. Cochrane*

    I’ve been put into a group at work that’s been tasked with reviving and reworking the management trainee program and a lively debate has sprung up around the selection criteria for candidates, who are a mix of recent grads and experienced people.

    One group believes that you can take good workers and give them the proper training/mentoring and make managers out of them. The other side thinks that a future manager has an “it” factor, a combination of charm/presence/aggressiveness that is inborn to their personalities that makes them suited to lead and motivate others. Either you have “it” or you don’t.

    I’m of the mind that I’d like to have a set of subjective criteria (time of service, review ratings, etc) to screen candidates for the program rather than handpick the meatheads who can push others around under the guise of “management”. You can tell which camp I’m in on this topic.

    In short, can you teach management skills to good workers or only the “alphas” have what it takes to lead?

    1. Colette*

      You definitely can teach management and leadership skills to the vast majority of people. (I am a Girl Guide leader – that’s a large part of what we do.)

      However, employees should demonstrate those skills before they get moved into a management position. (You don’t want a manager who can’t talk to a small group, or who sulks for days if she gets bad news, or who is good at her job but who refused to learn/do anything even slightly out of scope.) So the teaching should come before giving them a management job (except for specific knowledge like overtime laws, dealing with performance evaluation, handling leave requests, and other stuff only management needs to know.

    2. Schnoodle*

      Ah, yes the soft skills. Hard to teach, and some people have it in them from the start. On the pure standpoint of getting the best candidate, this is true. Some people just have “it,” the soft skills needed.

      The hard skills, say how to create a spreadsheet or whatnot, are easily trained.

      From a legal standpoint, yes less subjective criterias used the better. It does help in biases that happen to everyone, because we’re human. So there’s that.

    3. Tipcat*

      Did you mean “subjective” in your next-to-last paragraph? It sounded like you meant “objective.” The latter sounds much better to me. Subjective criteria are often a cover for white guys favoring people who look like them.

      In my only experience with a formal management trainee program, there were hard feelings when people were not allowed to apply for the program. There was just an announcement that the program existed and these are the people in it– people who came from the same background as the bosses. (A month later, one of the chosen got caught stealing money from a clerk he was managing, so the whole program vanished and was never mentioned again.)
      So, would you give people a chance to apply? Are you giving people chances to practice/demonstrate leadership in small doses? Are you giving them a chance to develop a track record that they can refer to when they apply? Is there a reasonably visible pathway to the program? Or is it just thinly camouflaged white-guy favoritism?

      Good luck. Sounds like you’re going to need it.

      1. Cochrane*

        Yes, objective is exactly right, thanks for the correction.

        I’ve had similar experiences in other jobs where there was a clear “in-crowd” that had access to things like that and everyone else was left to pound sand. I want to make this open to employees with a minimum tenure and a certain review rating.

  143. Ed*

    I posted in last week’s thread about some issues I was having with a hiring manager. Long story short, she called me with a job offer, gave me instructions to log in to their site and print off my pre-hire paperwork, and was then extremely rude to me when I contacted her to let her know I couldn’t log in and that the HR helpline had told me it was because she hadn’t sent them my information.

    Somehow, it got worse! I was advised to get in touch with her manager, so on Monday I called the HR helpline again, confirmed the issue was on her end, and then asked to pass a complaint about her behavior on to the district manager.

    The DM got in touch with her and then called me and told me that she said that she had never intended to hire me, and had gotten me confused with my roommate who had also applied to the job.

    Except I’m pretty sure she just flat out lied. My roommate and I have completely different names and phone numbers (roommate has a local area code, mine is out of state), and we are visibly different races as well.

    She says she had us confused, but she called my number, asked for me by name, discussed the job offer and instructions with me, then hung up and about 5 minutes later called my roommate’s number and left a message going over the details of the job offer and asking roommate to call her back to discuss pre-hire instructions, also addressing roommate by name.

    And then, of course, I left her a message that began with my full name and stated it in the very beginning of the phone call where she was rude to me. So if she had legitimately made a mistake in contacting me with a job offer, she had multiple chances to tell me, and she didn’t.

    When I spoke to the DM, she made it sound like the hiring manager was saying she had never even contacted me. The DM was polite, but the implication was definitely that I was the one lying and making things up.

    The DM also said that the hiring manager said that she would still hire my roommate, but when my roommate called later that morning, she said the position was filled.

    I just kind of want to vent about how unprofessional and punitive this all was and how nasty this woman was. I’m poor and disabled and my car broke down and this was the only job within walking distance, so I was really excited to get an offer and really devastated when it worked out the way it did. I know I dodged a dysfunctional workplace bullet, but I’m pretty financially desperate, so it’s really messed up a lot of my plans.

    1. Shelly2389*

      I think this feels awful right now and I am so sorry this happened, but this is not a place you want to work. Job hunting is completely demoralizing, but try to keep your spirits up. Something better will come along.

      1. Anna Held*

        Ugh. I agree, it’s better in the long run, but that doesn’t help now, does it?

        Internet hugs, and I hope you and your roommate both find something worthy of you soon!

  144. Ann Perkins*

    My work story of the week: I’m 10 weeks pregnant with #2 and told my boss (head honcho) and a couple peers. I was going to wait another week or so to continue telling people, but office well-intentioned busybody came to me and said, “Oh, Jane told me the good news!” and then proceeded to ask her work question. I assumed she meant the pregnancy, obviously, so I just went ahead and started telling more people.

    She heard me tell others and was shocked. Turn out she meant the “good” news that our boss is up for an internal audit. Guess I could have waited after all…

    On another note, one of the responses was, “Wow, was this planned?” Probably one of the most rude and intrusive things you can say to a happy newly pregnant woman.

    1. Conscientious*

      I had four kids in just over five years…everything from, “Are they all yours?” to “Do you know what causes that?” to “Buy a tv for your bedroom.” Ugh. Just ugh.

        2. froodle*

          That is the problem with the ultra thin flatscreens these days. The clunky old “tube” tvs were much easier to balance on.

    2. NaoNao*

      I’ll sheepishly confess I’ve asked “so, happy surprise or part of the plan?” to people I know WELL or like, pretty deep into the conversation about said pregnancy with an acquaintance, because I am not a parent and I sort of freeze and run out of things to say and this seems to be a pretty standard (albeit really annoying) question people ask. But the implied “oof, sorry man” in “Wow was it planned” does strike a negative note.

      1. Forking Great Username*

        For future reference, you really don’t need to say much – just congrats is fine! I feel you, Ann Perkins. I got asked this soooo many times despite being married, financially stable, in my mid-20s, etc. The first time I was kind of surprised but didn’t really mind too much since it was a co-worker I’m quite friendly with. The fifth time or so? I was really freaking irritated. So many people ask his! It’s so nosy, and kind of gross when you think about what you’re really asking.

  145. Dragon_heart*

    I made it to the final round of interviews to a job I really really want. But just today I got a reject email. I feel bad and disappointed that they didn’t hire me. Making it to the final just made it worse since I started to hope for an offer.

  146. Seeking advice on transitioning from service to professional jobs*

    Anyone have advice for a mid-20’s male (has a bachelor’s in a humanities major from a state school – currently lives far away from that state) who has only ever worked food service or customer service their entire career thus far, and is seeking to transition to a “professional” office job? Never worked in an office environment except a brief internship in college. Job searches since graduating have only ever yielded more service work and a LOT of rejections. Starting to feel hopeless.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I wasn’t in your exact situation, but in my mid-20s I did a major career switch. Everything on my résumé said X, but I was applying to Y positions. All I can say is that you just have to keep applying and hope someone takes a chance on you. You will never be the most sought-after candidate, but you may find a weird situation in which someone says “Hey, let’s have a look at Seeking advice on transitioning from service to professional jobs.” Good luck!

    2. AnotherLibrarian*

      Try to find ways you can shape your experience into things that show people your skills. For example, a friend of mine was as bridal sales person for two years. She thought this “just retail” and I have to tell her that being a bridal consultant is actually super hard and you are dealing with people in major emotional times. So we crafted a resume line that emphasized that. I know it’s hard to see with your own work, but maybe there are ways to shape your experience to emphasize your problem solving skills, grace under fire or some other traits.

    3. HMM*

      This is a great situation for temping! It’ll expose you to a lot of different office jobs, and if you’re willing to do grunt work for a bit, it can get something on your resume that shows that you in transition. In addition, some roles are flexible enough for you to do it part-time, then you can backfill with a service job until you land something full-time.

      1. Inspector Spacetime*

        +1 Or volunteering in an office environment in a field you’re interested in, if you have the financial flexibility to do so.

    4. Rey*

      My first office job was as a receptionist (now up to office manager), so I imagine that’s the kind of entry-level role that you’re applying for. If that’s the case, I would emphasize traits that you learned in your food service or customer service roles that are applicable. When I have to hire a new receptionist, I’m especially keen on people who have food service experience because they usually have experience working with different personalities, multi-tasking, and picking up new processes quickly. Good luck!

    5. krysb*

      I went from working factory work, then at a Chick Fil-A, before getting a job as a legal assistant. However, I had an “in” at the firm, which helped a ton. I was able to parlay that experience into a job in legal/tech at a low level and work my way into management.

  147. Cousin Itt*

    Does anyone have any tips for things to include in applications/covers letters for publishing jobs? The position itself is to do with social media which I have experience in, but I’m in a different industry ATM and I’m pretty sure ‘I have an English degree/love reading’ won’t cut it.

    1. Non Sequitor*

      Can you talk about social media campaigns or posts that they’ve shared and how they relate back to your experience. Also, it never hurts to highlight books of theirs that have had an impact on you – i.e. I truly enjoyed XYZ TITLE. It sparked my imagination and the opportunity to share fantastic work such as this on social media with a global/literary/sci-fi loving/scholarly/whatever audience is inspiring. (this isn’t the greatest example, but hopefully you get my meaning)

      1. Cousin Itt*

        This is really helpful, thank you! I follow them on social media already so I’ll look up specific examples from that to talk about as well as books to focus on rather than general ‘I love books’ comments

  148. Rey*

    I am the office manager for my department and have been working here for 4 years now. I am a full-time employee and there is another part-time secretary position in the office. We both report to the same supervisor. The current part-time secretary has given notice and the hiring committee has just finalized a candidate and is making the offer. I am 24 years old and the candidate is 50 years old; our desks are side-by-side in the reception area. Will people who come to our office assume that she has more seniority because she is older? What should I do? I’m feeling very insecure about this because the person in that position has previously been closer to my own age. How can I assert myself and maintain the seniority and respect that I’ve worked hard to establish?

    1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      I wouldn’t expect there to be any problems. Folks will respond to you based on your skills and how well you work with your colleagues, not age (if anything, your new older colleague may experience discrimination due to her age). Besides, you have a leg up — you’ve already been there for four years, so folks know you already, and you’ll be there full time.

    2. Schnoodle*

      Don’t sweat it. Age can be a discriminatory factor in this situation, but not nearly as bad as if she was male. THAT, yes people would constantly assume you are his assistant. #SexismIsAlive

  149. PeanutandButters*

    I have a second phone interview for a position and I’m so crazy nervous!!! I’ve been at the same job for 13 years, started as an intern and been here ever since. Things here are pretty dysfunctional but it wasn’t I started reading AAM that I realized that it even was dysfunctional.

    So one of the things that the position I’m applying for is looking is strong excel skills. I would consider myself at an intermediate level- I can do pivot tables, vlookup, nested functions with IF, OR, and AND, sort and filter data. What do you guys think makes a intermediate excel user?

    Also if you have go to Excel tricks or tips, share!

    1. beanie beans*

      This is tough because Excel is so huge that skills with it are relative! I’d consider what you describe to be advanced, but I guess it depends on what the job requires. If it’s macros and VBA then pivot tables and vlookup may be intermediate, but personally I’d say advanced and then ask in the interview what they are looking for. (also, you can learn ANYTHING in excel, so don’t be discouraged if you can’t do what they are looking for!)

      My favorite tip that I stumbled on a few months ago is that you can view different tabs of the same spreadsheet in different windows (two screens or just separate windows). View – New Window – and it will come up with the same spreadsheet just in two windows. Blew my mind when I found it, but maybe other people already knew this. :)

    2. JanetM*

      My colleagues think I am a freaking wizard because I can do pivot tables and vlookups. (I still haven’t been able to wrap my head around INDEX and MATCH, though.)

      1. PeanutandButters*

        I have yet to master INDEX and MATCH, but I’ve heard its less prone to errors. So if someone adds a column to your worksheet, all your formulas don’t suddenly go on the fritz or calculate the wrong thing.

      2. Mariella*

        I love MATCH and INDEX, soo much easier than VLOOKUPS where you have to change the data layout everytime and remember to paste the lookup as numbers otherwise the spreadsheet goes kaput!. I cant do Pivot Tables for the life of me though…

    3. Werewolves not Swearwolves*

      One thing that helps is being able to say exactly what you CAN do in Excel. Either way, unless you’re doing accounting or something you’re already doing better than most. I can’t tell you how many people I have met who think knowing how to use Excel means opening a spreadsheet and typing in it. Not even kidding.

      1. Hellanon*

        Yes, I interviewed an internal candidate who blithely assured she was at intermediate level in Excel but had no idea what formulas were.

  150. curious*

    What are everyone’s thoughts… for a business discussion group, where in addition sometimes job openings can be mentioned as well as company promotions… would a facebook group or a blog be more efficient? Most people joining the group rely on facebook but I feel like it would be limiting to those connections outside facebook.

    2. SpaceNovice*

      I’ve seen LinkedIn groups as well. There are also meetups. Sometimes groups use multiple avenues to talk.

  151. The Tin Man*

    Already asked one question but here’s another. Well, less of a question and more of a “Proclaim my anxiety into the void.”

    We had a round of layoffs yesterday. I am confident I am safe through the end of the year because I was taken off my main job duties work on a major project I am on but I am worried that my job won’t be here for me when the project is done. Why? Two main reasons:

    1. My region/division has two people in my role instead of the one that most have.
    2. We divvied up my job responsibilities. If things run smoothly without me it’s a hard case to make of why I am so important/useful to have around.

    I know the only thing I can do at work is be awesome on this project. The project is very high visibility and is the baby of my regional president. In my personal life I just will have to try to save (while planning a wedding) and keep an eye out for other opportunities. I like this company and think there is space to grow, but I am worried that at the end of the year it will be seen that things ran just fine without me.

    1. Lily*

      Can you be transparent with your manager about your fears? Granted, he or she might not know or be able to make you any promises, but maybe you could brainstorm how to take your role in a different direction once this project is over so you won’t be doing the exact same job as your coworker.

      1. The Tin Man*

        I did talk with him. His response was basically “I think we’re all worried, but we need you.” I trust that he wouldn’t lose me without a fight but my company is more the type to just tell him “We are letting The Tin Man go.”

        All I can do is be great at my job for the next 6 months and sharpen up my resume. Maybe I’ll be like the coworker who was laid off on Thursday when he was planning to give notice on Monday.

  152. IT Customer Support*

    My position works on a ticket system, but I have a bad coworker who never does any work and our department is down two other positions that had resigned at the same level of myself and my coworker. Bad coworker is currently training someone, but at this point the trainee should be able to help with tickets on her own and I have no clue where she is at with her training.

    Bad coworker gets special treatment because he is buddy buddy with our manager who was promoted to be our boss from within our sister department. She has never managed anyone before this position and it is very evident. She reams me out for the littlest things, but bad coworker gets away with murder. An example of his special treatment, he is not working today, but he didn’t put it on his calendar, or even tell me he was going to be out until last night, 10 minutes before our work day ends. When we take PTO, we are supposed to put it on our calendars ahead of our being out of the office to make sure the team is aware.

    I know I need to bring the issue of my workload up to my manager, but if she brushes me off about the workload in our department as a whole at what point can I go to my grand boss?

    1. Rey*

      I definitely understand your frustration with bad coworker, but I think it’s probably best for any discussion with your manager or grand boss to leave out “bad coworker gets special treatment”, because it may put them on the defensive. I think you should start with your manager with something that sounds like, “Can you email me the metrics for X and Y that I should be achieving on a daily/weekly basis? I want to make sure that I am meeting your expectations for my individual performance, even though our department isn’t fully staffed.” If you don’t get a response, I would follow-up with another email with a clear deadline. If still no response, forward on to grand boss. It sounds like your biggest concern is ensuring that they are satisfied with your work, so you can always frame it a, “I’m seeking feedback and want clear expectations” or, “I work better with detailed expectations” kind of attitude.

      1. Anna Held*

        You’re on a ticket system, so there should be a record of who’s doing all the work, right? I agree that you need to frame it as concern about your own workload, but definitely go in with metrics (which you keep a copy of off-site). And ask when new coworker will be up to speed. If your manager brushes you off, then go to your grandboss.

        If you’re feeling passive-aggressive, email the entire team to remind them to put their days off on the calendar. :)

  153. Fiennes*

    I’m guessing this is a Friday topic? Anyway, this week I read “Bad Blood” by John Carreyrou, which is about the Silicon Valley startup/hoax Theranos. Essentially the leadership (primarily Elizabeth Holmes) used the SV-typical method of promising more than their products could initially deliver, to go on and pick up contracts, with them belief the products will get there sooner or later. The problems: (1) there was little to no evidence Theranos would EVER be able to do as many blood tests as promised on one drop of capillary blood; and (2) there’s a critical difference between vaporware and medical testing—namely, if you fail to fulfill promises with the later, people are getting bad health info and even getting hurt.

    What struck me was how many employees tried to reason with management, the deep ethical problems they had, and the numerous resignations that cited their reasons…and none of this was EVER listened to. I guess I’m asking: Have others been in similarly distressing situations with fundamentally dishonest companies? What did or didn’t work in that environment? And if you read Bad Blood, what red flags stood out for you?

    (If this is more a Saturday thing, Alison, let me know!)

    1. Katie the Fed*

      Oh I need to add this to my list – I’ve been a little obsessed with reading about Theranos. I kind of love hoax stories in general.

      2. Fiennes*

        I’ve been obsessed too! It’s so fascinating, and just staggering how many truly smart people bought into it all.

    2. zora*

      Haven’t read the book yet, but I’ve read ALL of the articles, I am so weirdly fascinated.

      This isn’t exactly to your question, but my boyfriend is a software engineer and when he bought the book I jokingly asked him if he was reading it as a how-to to learn how to trick VCs out of billions of dollars, and he said “Oh, I know exactly how to trick VCs out of billions of dollars, it’s actually pretty easy, they usually know almost nothing about the things they are funding.” So, I found that interesting, that if you are convincing enough and use the right buzzwords, it’s not that hard to get huge amounts of money out of Silicon Valley, if you want to be dishonest and immoral.

      AND I heard that Holmes was seen last week meeting with VCs again about apparently a new idea!!!! I think it’ll be most interesting to see if there’s any coming back from this, or if once everyone knows you are willing to bend the truth and cover up problems, they won’t ever invest in you again.

      1. Natalie*

        This explains how MoviePass got funding. I’d been assuming they found the only VC that’s sexually excited by lighting large piles of money on fire.

        1. Fiennes*

          I think they assumed most buyers would *think* they’d use their MoviePass a lot, but actually only pull it out a few times a year. To be fair, this thinking fuels a lot of common business practices, like offering rebates instead of discounts. But who in the world thought the initial group of buyers for a moviegoers pass would be people who don’t often go to movies??

          1. Natalie*

            Honestly, even if you take those people into account it was a dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb idea. The margins were so low they would have needed 5-10 non-users for every single user. Even gym contracts, which are probably the most well known of this phenomenon, don’t have those kinds of usage rates.

            1. Fiennes*

              Yeah, it’s bonkers. But I wish I’d bought a MoviePass and used the heck out of it!

      2. Fiennes*

        Doesn’t it make you want to invent a start-up idea? Throw the word “synergy” into some presentations. Adopt some eccentric-but-cool design/wardrobe elements. Be secretive. Make millions.

        1. zora*

          A little bit!!! The thing that stops me is the exit strategy. How do I make sure I make a run for it with enough money to live on before it implodes, and where do I go? I guess I’m not egotistical enough to not doubt that I can pull it off. ;o)

      3. Observer*

        Well, she’s been indicted at this point. So, I can’t imagine that anyone is going to give her any funding at this point.

    3. anon for this one*

      I actually interviewed for a job that seemed to have the opposite issue. It was a technical writer/marketing position for a software company, and the manager asked what I would do if he told me to claim the product did something that I knew it didn’t do. After going through all my “weasel out of this” questions (I’d find out if it’s something expected in the future, I’d make sure the manager was aware our product didn’t do this, etc.) I said “I’d do it, because you’re the boss and you said so, but I’d start looking for another job.” He was pleased with that answer, but now I wonder why it was even a question. What happened in their past that prompted that?

      Anyway. I haven’t read Bad Blood, but my favorite Elizabeth Holmes story is that she decided to adopt a personal uniform, a la Steve Jobs, and came up with the puffy vest, and then kept the entire company cold enough so that she’d be comfortable in her puffy vest. That’s the kind of chutzpah I can only dream of .

      1. Fiennes*

        I know, right?

        It’s interesting to observe how glamorous/flattering Elizabeth Holmes photos were when Theranos was a darling…and how all the unflattering/whackadoo pictures rolled out once the jig was up.

      2. SpaceNovice*

        It sounds like he’s had a manager make bogus claims before, perhaps even bad enough to ruin customer relationships. Rounds of questions like that always make me ask “who hurt you?”

  154. Non Sequitor*

    I have no idea what projects my boss is working on. Now to be fair, I realize that I’m not privileged to know the ins and outs of her job. But (I’ve talked about this before) both she and my grandboss were out on maternity leave for 6 months, during which I picked up some slack. So I have a relatively good understanding of some of the things they were both doing. I have a general understanding of my grand boss’s workload and what she picked back up when she returned, but I literally have next to no clue what my boss is doing and it’s making me slightly resentful of the things she’s asking me to take on. (These recently included wanting me to reschedule a planned meeting (scheduled over a month ago) with colleagues, attending after hours meetings. We all have general access to everyone’s calendars, so I know that these meetings coincided with pumping and heading home to baby. And while I appreciate that she’s got a kid, these are also things that she can reschedule by half an our or so, or arrange for child care. (And she does have child care support with an engaged husband and nearby family.)

    I pushed back on rescheduling the meeting, which she accepted. So perhaps I shouldn’t be annoyed by any of this. I’m just worried this is becoming a habit and I do not want it to become one.

  155. krysb*

    This may be a little late to get any responses, but I’m going to try anyway. My role is slightly morphing to where I will be exclusively handling tasks such as obtaining and calculating production metrics and sales metrics, work on strategy including entering new lines of business, managing the training and development of employees, managing (and changing) processes, and so on. Does anyone have any idea what to call this role? I want to make sure my company is using the right information when determining the market rate for the pay.

    2. SpaceNovice*

      Business Analyst (like above)? Business Strategist? Look for some big companies on LinkedIn that make similar stuff and see what sort of jobs people have in them.

  156. zora*

    The “clipping your nails at work” post was so timely, the next day I walked through the shared kitchen and a woman was Flossing. Her. Teeth. at one of the tables in the kitchen. WWHHHhhHYYYYYYYyyYyYYYY???

    Anyone else have a weirdly perfect coincidence in relation to a post here?

  157. Annie Edison*

    For the first time ever in my career, my boss is leaving and I’m getting a new one this summer.

    I’m a bit heartbroken about this since my boss is awesome :( But I guess retirement is awesome too.

    Anyways, my new boss is an internal promotion from a completely different department. She has never been in supervision before. I’ve only met her once, briefly, when she came by after they announced her promotion. She seemed super nervous with closed off body language (kept her arms crossed and super reluctant to shake people’s hands). Our conversation was pretty awkward and I’m not sure that I made a good impression on her (or her on me, really)

    Right now I’m not feeling optimistic about the change. My gut instinct is that she and I aren’t going to mesh well. I hope I’m wrong.

    Any advice on how to deal with a new boss and make a good impression? Particularly one who is brand new and nervous? She’s my ticket to a promotion at this place, so I want to do my best.

    1. curious*

      I’d keep a positive outlook and hope that it was just nerves and a bad first impression. But if your gut instinct is telling you otherwise, maybe as an extreme precaution put feelers out incase you decide to leave

    2. Incantanto*

      Be able to explain things you do clearly and concisely and you should do ok. Give her managing style a few weeks to settle in before you complain about issues.

    3. N Twello*

      Let her know – very explicitly – that you’re glad she’s your new boss and that you want to help and support her in every way possible. Be positive and nonjudgmental. Avoid expressing reservations about her to anyone at work. Go out of your way to promote her, even when she’s not aware.

      That’s not just what will work best for you in terms of your career, but also what’s best for the organization. Helping others succeed is always the best path.

  158. Temporarily Anonymous*

    The recent article Alison posted about resumes has gotten me thinking about my own resume. I haven’t needed it for a while but will likely change jobs (because of moving in the next couple years).

    Here’s a slightly oddball question for the community. How or what would you include on a resume in this case:
    I went to university (for 7 years part-time while working) but had to drop out due to health issues before getting a degree. Then I had a year long break from working due to those health issues- which are now resolved- and started working again 6 years ago.
    Would you mention the education at all?

    1. Werewolves not Swearwolves*

      If you mention education, you could always just put the year you received your degree rather than a range.

        1. Werewolves not Swearwolves*

          “Turn that thing off! Our friend has just been killed in a fatal sunlight accident!”

      2. Temporarily Anonymous*

        I never finished the program but have 3 out of 4 years completed towards my bachelor degree. If it makes a difference, it’s B. Ed and I don’t plan on going back to finish it.

    2. N Twello*

      There are various ways you could handle it. The way I’d do it is mention the completion year of your education, the title, and “incomplete”, like this: “2012, BA Education (incomplete)” or “2012, Education studies (successfully completed 18 of 24 required courses)”. Then be prepared to get an interview question about it. List the work during that time under a separate, Employment, heading. You shouldn’t mention illness or time off reasons in your application.

      1. Temporarily Anonymous*

        Thanks, I wasn’t sure how relevant it was at this date but it seemed like a weird thing to leave out.

  159. Stephanie*

    Hi everyone–started my new job Monday. Going fine–just doing all the normal new hire onboarding stuff. Work hasn’t picked up too much.

    A couple of questions:
    1. I have a work cell phone now. This is new. Mostly because I’m in and out the office a lot visiting our factories and supplier sites. How do you guys handle the phone? I don’t feel a lot of pressure to check it outside of working hours, but I do worry about setting appropriate boundaries. Like do I turn it off at night?

    2. Speaking of visiting factories…any footwear suggestions? I don’t need steel toed, but I do need dressier shoes that I can walk around in a factory in (so closed toed, non-slip soles, etc.). Any suggestions?

    1. All Anon*

      On the cell phone issue – totally depends on the job and the work culture. I have carried a work cell phone for years and I leave my cell number on my work VM because I am high level HR and if somebody really needs me they really need me. Abuses have been minimal. Take your cue from your boss or ask outright about the expectation and the culture. Personally I would rather check more frequently and know nothing is happening than be surprised when I walk in the office in the morning.

    2. Environmental Compliance*

      I work at an ethanol manufacturing plant.

      1. I’m expected to be on call relatively 24/7 for emergencies only, but previous jobs I have not been. I didn’t turn my phone off at night, but I didn’t check it after normal business hours. If I did (rarely), I did not respond to emails/texts. That gave enough of a boundary to expect me to not respond at abnormal hours.

      2. I have Nike’s steel toe boots, and I looooove them. I don’t technically need steelies, but these weren’t any more expensive and were one of the few that fit my narrow & short woman foot with good arch support. They are nonslip, waterproof, and very light. They look decently dressy enough under the slacks I wore when I was with the state. FWIW – no one’s going to look at you cross-eyed if you’re wearing functional shoes in a factory. They won’t expect anything super dressy. As long as the shoes are not super scuffed or muddy, no one’s going to notice.

      1. Stephanie*

        Will check out the Nike boots recommendation! Haha, I’m a little bit of a shoe fanatic, but I get function over fashion (but the shoes looking vaguely attractive is a plus).

    3. Afiendishthingy*

      When I had a work cell phone, I didn’t turn it off at night, but I left it in another room where I couldn’t hear it from my bedroom. I would check with your supervisor about expectations regarding responsiveness outside of work hours. At my old job, some of my peers answered their phones in the evening, but my supervisor told me when I started that it was nice to be available a little later if there was something unusual going on with a client, but that it wasn’t an on-call position and in general I only needed to be responsive during work hours.

    4. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I keep my work phone on and I occasionally check it, but I rarely answer anything after hours. I leave it in my work bag. If it buzzes a lot, I’ll pick it up. It’s mostly useful on the rare occasions that I travel, or if I have to leave the office early.

      For shoes… they’re pricey, but I’m wearing Rothy’s right now and I love them. They might not be as dressy as you need, especially since personally I would do the round-toed ones for walking around a factory (mine are pointy and they’re awesome, but sometimes I drag the point on the floor). But they are soooo comfortable and the soles hold up really well. I would also look into Cole Haans, which I’ve bought on 6pm.com (Zappos’ outlet site) for very reasonable prices. In other words, if you can swing it, spend money. You want support and comfort as well as style.

      1. Stephanie*

        Yeah, reason I ask…the loafers I bought a week ago are falling apart! And this is just normal usage and one factory visit. I’ve had good luck with Cole Haans before. I wondered about Rothy’s (I get a lot of their ads on Facebook)–glad to know they’re good. Will look into those.

        1. Stephanie*

          My job isn’t super dressy, luckily. I think big meetings, I have to get dressier, but my department is more on the casual side of business casual.

        2. AvonLady Barksdale*

          I had to get about five personal recommendations before I spent the money. I have miserable feet and wore them all over England and they held up beautifully, then I got to go home and run them through the washing machine to get the stink out. Worth it.

        3. AvonLady Barksdale*

          Also, just thought of this: I have a pair of Massimo Matteo loafers that I looooove. Not super expensive, available in a bunch of colors. (Don’t get light gray, they show the dirt really quickly.)

    5. blink14*

      I would set boundaries on the work phone quickly. If there’s not a hard and fast rule from your supervisor on availability, then set a time at night, or X amount of hours after you get home if your schedule will vary a lot, and do not respond to anything after that, unless it is an absolute emergency.

      This avoids setting a precedent that you are available at all hours. Consistent response to phone calls, emails, texts, etc presents the idea that you can both be reached and engaged at any time, which in the long term is detrimental (unless obviously its a job requirement).

      A relative of mine owns a small business, and his rule for his employees is they are not allowed to check/respond to work email or calls after they leave the office. It actually comes from a liability standpoint – if a customer consistently gets responses during work hours but not at night, they are more likely to not cause a problem if their emails and calls aren’t answered after hours.

    6. Incantanto*

      Decent leather ankle boots with flat heels and grip can look stylish very easily. Clarks do really good ones that go with a lot of clothes and are robust.

      Depending on the type of factory it is I recommend ones with a zip or velcro. If you need to change into clean room wear or overalls boots you can get on and off easily are a life saver.

    8. periwinkle*

      My office is in a factory. On the factory floor, all footwear must cover the top and sides of the foot as well as toes & heels. Ankle boots are my default; I rotate through 3 pairs of Clarks Cloudsteppers. Boat shoes (Sperry Topsiders and so forth) are my warm-weather alternative. Dressy lace-ups would also work.

  160. she was a fast machine*

    I need some help figuring out how to ask for better compensation in a system where it’s based on pay grades and years at the organization only. I perform easily twice that of those at my same pay grade and am assigned two projects that only usually go to people a grade above mine (two of my seven assignments, in a case where most at each level have four or five). So from my POV, I’m doing the work of someone at my grade, plus half of the work of a position one grade above mine. But because I’ve only been here two years and most others have been here for a longer time(5-10 yrs), I get paid something like 15% less than those on my same level, and more like 35% less than those on the level above mine.

    This is a rather old-school organization, though it is advancing rapidly, but I feel like pay is still stuck in the dark ages, and I’m kicking myself for taking on more duties eagerly without giving any hint that I might need greater compensation. And I don’t know how to ask for it now, to illustrate how my situation is different from anyone else at my level and I’m performing and benefiting the organization at a level that is not matched by my time here or my compensation. I don’t want to be necessarily bumped a grade because I am not entirely on that level, but it really doesn’t feel fair to be where I am in compensation when I’m demonstrably doing more.

    Am I just out of line? Is there any way I can address this?

    1. she was a fast machine*

      And I just realized my percentages are more like 20% and 40% respectively.

      1. Argh!*

        You could ask for a desk audit to possibly get yourself reclassified. That might bring up your salary.

  161. Nancy*

    I’ve been at my company for 10 months now and I’m wondering if I’m too new to broach a subject. I came from a nonprofit (bigger) that had time off separated into, Personal, Sick, Vacation (and Bereavement). We had three (they gave us 5 just as I left) Personal Days each year, Sick Time was 3 days off the bat and then one day a month for every month you worked there up to 250 hours, Vacation was dependent on your level (salary/hourly) and how long you worked there. We also got holiday time. So I found this very generous and one reason I stayed so long in a bad environment.

    Now I’m in a great workplace and I feel I’m thriving and doing good work. However, we have PTO here. I even negotiated for extra time when I couldn’t get them to reach just a little more for salary. I’m so used to having sick time separated and having my time be the same as our fiscal year and not the calendar year that I’ve used my time a little more than I wanted to. That’s on me though. However, it made me think. In a recent staff retreat the administration said that they were going to work hard this year on making the team a priority. They want to hire talented people and retain them, have a happy employee base. I’m new, so I spoke to two co-workers that have been here longer about the PTO situation. They both say that it isn’t enough time and encourages people to work when they are sick. I’m not sure if this is something that can even be changed (though it sounds like it could be), but I kind of want to bring it up as a way to help attract and retain talented employees. I would feel comfortable bringing it up to my personal VP and see if he would take it to the others. Am I too new to do this? Obviously, it would benefit me, but I would hope (in the long run) benefit the company too.

    1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      I’m a combined-PTO-bank-hater, like you, so I’d love to see this change.

      That being said, there are a lot of folks who very strongly prefer combined PTO (because it gives people who don’t usually use a lot of sick time more access to vacation/time off), and companies generally seem to feel that the flexibility it offers is valuable for attracting employees. To argue for a change, you’d have to make the case that the cost (folks coming in sick to preserve vacation time, inequity for staff who tend to need more sick time than others, etc.) is higher than than the perceived value — and the difficulty of making the change (which could include dealing with staff unhappy with the change, figuring out how to translate current PTO balances into new separate pools and/or how to pay out existing PTO, etc.).

      1. zora*

        But I think an alternative would just be suggesting they raise the PTO balances. And maybe add more holidays, add floating holidays, etc. Having more PTO would make it easier for people to have both vacation and sick time available, plus it’s often an easy way for nonprofits to compete with forprofits.

    2. zora*

      If they have specifically said they are looking at recruitment and retention, you definitely have an opening to bring this up, even though you are new. I would definitely bring it up to your personal VP, with specifics about how much you would like as an example. But bring it up once, and let them decide if they want to move forward, don’t bring it up multiple times at this point. When you are closer to your 2 year anniversary, if you haven’t heard more about this, you would have more standing to start bringing it up again. Or if you are in any way involved in hiring in the meanwhile.

      It would be weird if you brought it up out of the blue, but since recruitment and retention is a current topic of discussion, go for it!

      1. Nancy*

        Thanks. Those are all good points. I did have PTO at my first job, but it kept accruing throughout the year, like 3 hours a month or something like that. So, even when I used it, I could build it back up. That might be something too.

  162. anxious anon*

    I need some help. Some background: there is a person in my office who is something of a problem for pretty much everyone but especially me. Her job is Teapot Creation but that requires a fair amount of administrative work; she does not like this part of her job and frequently tries to push it back on me because I’m an admin assistant (even though this work is not part of my job). She is frequently days, if not weeks, behind getting me what I need to do my part of the job. Sometimes I can and will do a little of her admin work, but most of the time I can’t access the data (it’s in her email for example). She always had an extremely negative attitude when I’d ask her for something, including heavy sighs and passive aggressiveness in spades – but she is very fake cheerful when a higher-up is around.

    Last summer she complained about me to our manager, citing that I am unhelpful amongst other things. Our manager asked me to sit down with her to fix the problem; I wrote up a process document detailing what she does and what I do and where our work interacts and our manager signed off on it. Things did not improve. Then, last December, this coworker basically stopped doing her job. But no one in my office discovered this until deadline day when we had very angry clients calling and knocking on our doors. She then went on leave for a variety of personal reasons.

    Flash forward to now, when she comes back next week. I am… extremely anxious about this situation. In the past our manager has openly said she thinks we have a personality conflict. I disagree. The office flows very smoothly when this coworker isn’t here. Having her around is like having a huge boulder in the middle of a stream and I am not the only person to have these issues – at least three other people have similar problems, it’s just that my work and her work intersect more. I have tried doing things like keeping how much we speak in person and cc’ing our manager on the emails I send, but other than that I’m at a loss. How can I handle this going forward?

    1. MuseumChick*

      I see three options here.

      1) Talk to your boss as a group. If she is causing the much disruptions he needs to do something about it.
      2) Document, document, document. Every time she asks you to do something record it. Every time she is passive aggressive record it. Dates, times, exactly what was said etc. Then if you get called in again you will have evidence that you are not the problem.
      3) Your boss is protecting this worker for some reason. It is unlikely to change, so you may want to consider finding a different job.

    2. Argh!*

      Let me guess — you’re female?

      Women are expected to be accommodating and helpful, and when we have disagreements it’s a “personality clash.” It your case personality clearly isn’t part of it. Let’s hope that the crisis she caused brought her habits to the attention to enough people that they will side with you if she starts with it again.

      To ease your anxiety, you could reframe your history as the impact her health issues had had on her workplace productivity. You can welcome her back by saying “I’m so sorry, I had no idea you were suffering. I’m so glad you’re feeling better so things can get back to where they’re supposed to be.”

      Question, though: who has been taking over her workload in her absence? If it was you, it will be a bit trickier.

      1. Anxious anon*

        I am a woman yes. Our manager is a woman too. I did not take over this coworker’s workload – the majority of her work I couldn’t do even if I had been willing. I flat out refused to volunteer to help clean up the mess she left us in, though I would have helped if our manager had asked. This coworker has had some personal issues in the past six months (she was sick and her partner left her) so I’m concerned that her horrible behavior will all be excused now.

        I need to drum up some compassion and sympathy for her but she stressed me out so much during the year and a half before she went on leave that I nearly went out on stress leave myself. So I’m finding it incredibly difficult.

    3. curious*

      When she comes back, perhaps you and others can have a plan of action in place. Say that while she was gone, the team made some changes to A) not fall behind and B) make things more efficient. Maybe even talk to the boss as a group ahead of time – instead of framing it as coworker is not doing her job and you are dreading her return, tell boss we think these new implimentations will make us more productive and we’ve been testing it out with tasks a,b,c.

  163. Analyze All The Things*

    I’d love to get everyone’s take on this situation:

    My SO went through a full round of interviews with a company. He is a senior C++ software engineer, which is becoming a pretty esoteric language these days, so his skill set is fairly difficult to come by. He made it through all the interview rounds with flying colors, everyone was excited about him. His recruiter confirmed with the company that he was the only candidate for the role currently.

    We were expecting HR to extend him an offer this week. However, instead they rejected him because the desired salary range he gave them was higher than they liked. There was still about $5k overlap between the bottom of his range and the top of theirs, so they weren’t completely off. Once he learned that they had rejected him solely because they thought his salary range was too high (his recruiter confirmed with them that this was the only reason), he wrote them an email saying he was very interested in the role, and that salary wasn’t the most important factor for him in a job. He’d be happy to work with them on salary/benefits so everyone was happy. HR pretty much said that they’d already made their decision and refused to change their mind.

    Has anyone ever had this happen? Am I right in thinking this is a pretty short-sighted and bizarre reason to just flat out reject someone?

    1. All Anon*

      A better way to handle it would be to call him and talk about his flexibility. Maybe it’s a blessing in disguise, it may be indicative of other types of internal red tape or communication issues that would be painful if he joined. I would also wonder if the recruiter was being completely transparent about him being the only candidate and that being the only issue with his candidacy. At face value this does seem bizarre with the set of facts he was given.

      1. Analyze All The Things*

        My impression was that the recruiter was being honest. She seemed equally flummoxed by their behavior.

        There were a few other things with the company that my SO had mentioned that makes me think they aren’t very savvy at making good business decisions. So HR not handling a conflict in pay range well shouldn’t surprise me… Oh well.

    2. Lynne879*

      From what I’ve read on this site, it seems like what a “good” company would do is extend a job offer to your SO, but let him know that for salary they can’t go higher than $XXX or at least try to work with him.

      Personally, I think the fact that they disqualified him solely due to salary & being dismissive is a red flag, so maybe take it as a sign that it’s a good thing your SO wasn’t employed at this company.

      1. Analyze All The Things*

        That’s my take as well.

        He’s taking it pretty hard tho. He has had this almost magical career path where he’s pretty much never had to job search. He’s always been recruited or recommended for the job. Even this job was through a recruiter that contacted him even though he doesn’t have his resume posted anywhere. So not much experience with interviewing or any of the stuff that comes with job searching, which means not a lot of experience with being rejected for a position. I’m going to be searching the archives here for some good articles on dealing with rejection, what to expect from interviews, etc, etc.

    3. The New Wanderer*

      I think “salary mismatch” is the official reason that HR gave, but that it isn’t the only, or even a real, reason. As mentioned, the mismatch wasn’t big enough that HR wouldn’t have talked about it with him to see if they could find common ground (since there already was an overlap!).

      I don’t know if it would be worth fighting and IANAL, but I kind of doubt HR would be able to back that up if it were legally challenged.

      Would your husband be able to talk to the hiring manager for “feedback” about the decision? If the hiring manager was surprised HR didn’t make the offer, this would be one way to find out why HR had that authority over the HM’s recommendation.

    4. SpaceNovice*

      You’re right–it is very bizarre. If he’s a senior C++ developer, that means he’s likely older. If their salary range was so much lower, it sounds like they were looking for someone with less experience. “We want to hire someone we can pay less.” Or it could be direct ageism. It sounds like they did him a favor by doing this!

    5. N Twello*

      That happened to me once, so I asked a recruiter about it. She said that companies worry that if you want more than they’re willing to offer, even if you accept you will be unhappy with your salary, continue to ask for more, and possibly not stay long. Ever since then I try to apply for jobs through recruiters and I try to find out what the salary range is before I have an interview.

      In his case, it might be a combination of their range and what quandrant they want to start him in. Even if his lowest number is above their highest number, they might not want to start him at the top of the range. At some tech companies, once an employee is in the top quadrant of their salary band, they must either be promoted or let go within a certain period of time (eg two years).

    6. Bea*

      This sounds to me that they found someone that was “good enough” and taking the lower end of the salary band. I’ve seen that happen. “We like them both but Johnny wants 100, Bobby wants 95, if that’s the deal breaker, Bobby is better.” So yeah, they don’t want to negotiate, they already offered the other person probably.

  164. Amy Farrah Fowler*

    What do you think is “normal” for people hiring for part-time positions? I understand that part time roles are generally not going to be taken as seriously as full time employment, but I’m somewhat astonished by how people act during the hiring process (upwards of 25% no-showing on phone interviews they have scheduled, others not showing up for the 2nd interview, even after having a successful phone interview). Do you think things like this are a symptom of something with regards to company/industry, or is this more a society-wide problem, and the lack of follow-through is just… part of society now?

    1. NaoNao*

      Well, without being able to access records from previous eras, I can’t speak to flakiness being a bigger part of societal norms!
      What I can say or speculate is that even 20 years ago, the path was: college, and then the college placement office would slot you into a recommended entry level career job. The job would train you and you would grow, staying in that job for 10-15 years, getting promotions over the course of that job. Part time work was for students, SAHM, people re-entering the work force and so on.

      There is a lot that has changed in a negative way about that path.

      College degrees mean zip. The bachelors is the new GED/high school degree. Liberal arts degrees aren’t regarded as desirable. The recession of 2008 and the fallout shook a lot of industries and changed the way big companies do business. Permatemps and permacontractors are the new norm. The gig economy and patching together 3 part time jobs to survive is the new norm. Outsourcing is huge. Skilled and unskilled labor wages have stagnated and knowledge and service work is the majority of jobs now, leaving a huge portion of the working world at least in the US, lost and freaked out.

      I wouldn’t be surprised if people feel a low level anger at having to take a part time job that’s not when they’re a student or a SAHM or similar. It feels frustrating and maybe this frustration is leaking onto their behavior.

    2. CBE*

      People want/need full time jobs. A part time job is often a fall back.
      If they have a chance at FT work, they’re dropping the PT lead. That’s what happens when you don’t offer FT work.

  165. Merida Ann*

    Earlier today I could hear two of the men in my office discussing recent news articles related to #MeToo and Hollywood’s “casting couch” while they were standing out in the hall, and not in a good way. I had to get up and close my door when I heard: “Just because a woman had a bad date, now she’s claiming…” So gross and wrong. But I definitely did not have the energy to go out and try to counter them, so I just ended up closing the door (I did intentionally let it shut hard enough so that they would hear it closing, but I doubt they actually noticed). It’s so frustrating, especially because I usually get along well with these men (I’m the only woman in my section), and it’s disheartening to hear them so dismissive of real horrors that women have faced. Ugh.

    1. Inspector Spacetime*

      Isn’t it awful when people you like and respect surprise you like that? It kind of taints the whole relationship… No advice, just sympathy.

    2. Argh!*

      I think I know the “bad date” story – if that’s the one, I’m kind of on their side. In the future, just ask them what they’re talking about and join in. If it was inappropriate, they’ll shut up, and if it’s more innocent they’ll explain themselves.

      1. Merida Ann*

        In context, that statement was speaking in general terms, not about a specific incident, and they were clearly lumping the majority of recent cases in under that same assumption. Right before that, one of them was saying how the Hollywood “casting couch” wasn’t really a secret, and “if that was what it took to get a job, then why were any of the women surprised?”

        Other times when I hear discussions in the hall that I feel I can contribute to, I’ll pop my head out and join in the discussion, but I’m really busy today and I just don’t have the time or energy for that particular argument right now.

    3. Catwoman*

      If you’re up for it, I think it would be good to speak to them individually, especially if you have good rapport with them. I think a concise version of what you stated in your comment would help them realize that their behavior is inappropriate:
      “Hi Archibald, do you have a minute? I overheard you talking to Sedrick in the hall yesterday about the #metoo movement and the things I heard really disturbed me. It was disheartening to hear you be so dismissive of real horrors that women have faced, which is why I shut the door. I hope you rethink your views on this subject and understand how it can be disturbing for women to overhear this kind of talk.”

    4. Enough*

      As a women I have no issue with the only example you reference. Your regret is not my assault. Now if I say no and you continue over my protests it’s on you.

      1. NaoNao*

        I’m a little confused on what “your regret is not my assault” means? I am sincerely hoping it’s not a reference to the widely circulated “sexual misconduct” story of a comedian who chased a woman around his apartment and coerced her into very unpleasant sex being not “equivalent” to “your” assault.

        It’s not a contest with prizes for who “really” got harmed. If someone comes forward and tells a story about being afraid and feeling treated shabbily sexually, that doesn’t “take away” from another story about rape.

        As a society, stories about super crappy and scary gray area consensual encounters need to be told. We need to hear that it harms women, that it’s not okay, and that it contributes to a larger culture of “boys will be boys”.

        Many people feel like “unless she was screaming no, it’s probably fine. B**ches be crazy, always regretting sex and claiming rape later.”

        We don’t need to add to that narrative “as women” or otherwise.

    5. Driving School Dropout*

      I had a situation like this a few months ago when the Steve Wynn allegations came out and he left his company. They literally came through the front door from lunch saying “Women!” with that eye-roll tone and proceeded to complain about how unfair it was that he was forced out of a company he built because of “allegations”. It sucked. I am also in a male-dominated field and there are only a handful of women in my office. I did step out into the hall to remind them politely that it’s a sensitive subject for a lot of people and that I would appreciate them keeping the discussion out of the hallway at work. One of the guys tried to start a debate and I just repeated my request that they drop the subject. I think I was about ten shades of red in the face, but I did manage to keep my voice very even and polite. I don’t know if it made an impression beyond “gee, another hysterical lady person!” but I hope it did.

    6. N Twello*

      A similar thing I have run into repeatedly is hearing men talking to other men at work about how their wives are silly, stupid, or frivolous; about how their wives love to spend money or spend too much time on personal grooming; and so on. As a woman, it makes my skin crawl, and I can’t think of any way to respond. Then when I work directly with these men, I’m hyper-aware that they don’t see me as an equal.

      1. Earthwalker*

        I used to spend team lunch hours listening to “You think your wife is stupid? Listen to what mine just did!” and felt the same way. I always thought that they must be talking about me that way in other circles where I wasn’t present. But I had no idea how to reset the tone in a conversation that was not specifically insulting me.

  166. Urban teacher*

    After 20 years of teaching special ed, I just got a Master if Public Administration so I can work elsewhere in the public sector. I have my first interview next week for a special event coordinator position for a city. What questions can I expect? I’ve never had a non teaching interview and I’m worried

    1. EmilyAnn*

      I’ve done event coordination at the federal level and my mother is a teacher. Your skills are going to translate wonderfully.

      I’ve always had situational interviews, but I’d be prepared to talk about how you prepare for a major event (which is really how organized and anticipatory are you) and how you handle last minute changes. How you work with clients and their needs. Your willingness to ramp up your hours and efforts for major events, as well as long-term planning and coming up with ideas to improve the yearly or quarterly events.

      A lot of event planning is working with lots of different people and being a touchpoint so they know how to prepare, where to be, and what to do. As a special ed teacher, you deal with IEPs and aides, parents etc. Talk about coordinating all those people for successful outcomes for your students.

      Hope some of this helps!

  167. Midwest English Teacher*

    Hello all! I’m hoping readers can help. I am an high school English Teacher in the midwest and I al looking for a job because of a staff reduction.

    I know that I have a good resume and cover letter as I keep getting interviews and I know that I interview well. The issue is that they always go with someone else. When I’ve been given feedback, I am told that I am a close second. This happened two years ago when I was trying to get a teaching job too.

    So how do I actually get the schools to choose me instead of someone else? Any ideas?

    1. Nines*

      When this has happened to me I’ve noticed that I was doing all the Right Things. But I wasn’t really selling myself. Like I would answer an interview question well and hit all the points they’re looking for, but wasn’t also incorporating why I’m the *best* person for the job into my answers. I find it really awkward to push hard on my own assets, but it’s made me much more successful. Of course, YMMV

  168. CC*

    I’m not going to feel guilty about posting here during work hours because I’m trying to solve a work problem!

    Anyway, I work at a custom teapot-making shop and gallery. I’ve been working here maybe 3 months? There are SO many things that could be improved, but a big one is getting clients to actually *pick up and pay for* their custom teapot work. People come in, drop off the order for their custom teapots, and then forget about their work and never return for it. We literally have pieces from the 1990s sitting in bins, waiting for customers who have disappeared off the face of the earth. We make a note on each invoice of every time we’ve called, emailed, and left voicemails for customers to pick up. We’ve called one person every month for a year…

    What do we/I do? What is allowed legally? (in TX FWIW). Some of these people owe us a not-insignificant amount of money, but more importantly, their work is cluttering up the storage areas, and the entire shop floor and workspace is a huge mess as a result. My boss is scared to just drop it all off at Goodwill or resell it, but she also doesn’t have the time or energy to deal with it otherwise besides just occasionally shuffling it around to “reorganize” storage.

    Help!

    1. Argh!*

      Why can they leave stuff for you to do without a deposit?

      Also, you can warn them that failure to pay will be reported to credit bureaus.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Do you make them put a deposit on the work before it’s done? I would expect to pay at least 50% of the cost of a custom piece when I place the order.

    3. LadyKelvin*

      Require a deposit for custom work. Its pretty common to pay 10-50% when you place the order and the rest when you pick it up. Then people have a monetary incentive to come back for their items. You can also implement a policy where if a custom order isn’t picked up within 60 days of first contact of the item being finished, then they forfeit their deposit and you guys have the right to resell, dispose, etc.

      1. Catwoman*

        Yup! +1000 for the 50% deposit and right to resell if abandoned.

        You could also have a giant sidewalk sale for all the abandoned custom work at very low prices to clear it out and promote your custom work.

    4. Ambpersand*

      Yeah, agreeing with everyone else about requiring a deposit. I have a family member who runs a large business and charges the cost of materials up front for his service that way if someone goes MIA, he’s not out 100%. Additionally, your boss should write an order agreement for each customer to sign that states if they don’t pick up their order within a certain amount of time, the shop retains the right to resell or donate it. That should motivate them, and if not, you’ll at least have the comfort of knowing you did everything you could before getting rid of it.

      1. CC*

        Thanks for the replies, all. I 1,000% agree with everyone on requiring a deposit, for exactly the reason that we have to order expensive materials upfront. There is also language on the customer copy of the invoice of a 90-day abandonment policy. I should have mentioned that my boss doesn’t require people to sign that agreement, and leaves it totally up to the customer on if they want to pay on delivery, pay a deposit (amount of their choosing), or pay in full upfront. Also, people abandon work that they have left a deposit on, or sometimes even totally paid in full. I’ve brought it up a couple times that we should require deposits, but she always says that changing the policy would be unfair and could cost her longtime customers.

        So I guess really my question is – is there a way for me to “manage up” and get this problem solved? Or will we simply have to settle for drowning in 60+ years worth of custom teapots?

        1. Ambpersand*

          From my point of view, it doesn’t seem like you’re going to be able to do much if your boss has already made it clear she doesn’t want to be “unfair.” What she’s considering unfair would be a safeguard for the business and help you guys in the long run. If she’s unwilling to see that, you might be stuck.

        2. Catwoman*

          Are there any other Teapot Emporiums that you can use to benchmark the policy? I think if you could show your boss that it’s very standard to charge the deposit and resell after 90 days then that might give you some more leverage.

          If you don’t think you’ll get anywhere on the deposit, could you push for enforcement of the abandonment clause? This sounds like the part of the issue that bothers you the most and seems like you could make more headway on.

        3. Natalie*

          I might sound extra cynical, but I’m going to say no, there isn’t really a way to manage up here. Maybe start being really clumsy in the storage room and break some of the teapots from the 90s? It’s been 25 years (yikes), I doubt anyone is coming back for them.

        5. Blue Cupcake*

          If the boss refuse to make customers sign an agreement or get rid of 20+ year old stuff, I’m afraid you may just have to live with it. You can’t reason with someone who fears a customer will suddenly show up after 25 years the day after their item gets thrown away.
          I don’t know the real business. Are the real items bigger than a teapot? Are they able to fit in boxes that can be stacked or are they too big and awkward? Are you able to clear a work area for yourself and make a rule that nothing is to be stored in your space?
          What’s the income situation? Can you suggest that she rent a storage unit?

    5. Anon for now*

      Do they sign anything when they place the order? If not, then it seems like you can resell it if possible. They don’t own it if they do not have a contract and did not pay for it.

    6. MuseumChick*

      Along with a deposit, check the abandoned property laws in your area. This kind of thing sometimes happens when people loan stuff to a museum. After the loan period ends we try and try and try to get a hold of them with no luck. It varies depending on the state you are in but the stuff is legally considered abandoned after X years and usually after a specific number and methods of attempted contact.

    7. Aphrodite*

      I was going to say I’m surprised you do not require payment up front for a custom order. On the other hand, thinking about some of my transactions now I realize I haven’t had to pay when ordering. Some places would, I think, like a bakery with a special cake. But where I get my artwork framed or my shoes re-soled do not. I guess they think I’d like my stuff back and they are right.

      Does what you do involve their things or is it something you create? If the former, get a deposit. If the latter, require full or nearly full payment before beginning work. In either case, get them to sign a form stating clearly that they are required to pick up their items within 30 days of the work’s completion or you reserve the right to get rid of it.

  169. AnonyMouse*

    I have an update and a question today! Hopefully I’m not too late for feedback :) A few weeks ago, I posted on here an experience I had with a hiring process that went awry during the offer/negotiation stage. To do a short summary of the situation, I tried to negotiate the offer for a little bit higher of a salary and an extra weekend to move. Once I did that, the hiring manager’s tone and demeanor changed and they implied that they no longer wanted to offer me the job (citing concerns about “fit” given the questions I was asking). I ended up declining because the sudden change in tone was unsettling to me, and ultimately I think it worked out the way it was supposed to.

    The updates though…. I have a coworker I’m really close with who mentioned to me that he found out from my boss that this office contacted my boss for a reference, even though I did not provide his contact info on my reference list or authorize them to contact him. I was really frustrated by this, because they basically outed my search to my boss. We’ve since had a conversation (unrelated to this) and it’s understood that I’m looking for other opportunities. It went well, but I can’t help to think about if the situation did not end that way and my boss was the type to retaliate (he’s not). I haven’t talked to my boss about this yet or decided if I’m going to do anything with this information. I kind of just want to move on from it all together.

    This update comes with some poetic justice though… the office had to repost the position! I got a good chuckle over it considering one of their complaints was that I was slowing down their timeline by not accepting immediately. We’re over two weeks past the day they insisted I’d start and they just reopened the search yesterday. I know it’s harsh to have been amused by this, but after everything that went down I couldn’t help it. I hope they find what they’re looking for.

    My question though is that I’m continuing my search, and earlier today a position opened up that could be an excellent fit for me. The only problem though is I’d be applying for a direct competitor of my current employer. Has anyone had this experience before? How did you handle that process?

    1. AdAgencyChick*

      That is incredibly not cool of the prospective employer to have contacted your boss without your permission, and you may want to out them on Glassdoor as having done so.

      2. AnonyMouse*

        I’ve looked into leaving a review on Glassdoor, but I’m in a field that has very decentralized hiring by department within the organization. So I’d have to leave a review for the organization as a whole. I’m hesitant about doing this because this organization has multiple locations, and I’m still open to working for the organization in the future, but probably not at the location I interviewed at. I feel like my hands are kind of tied because I don’t want to jeopardize my chances of getting hired at the organization, but I also am really frustrated with my experience with this particular department.

  170. Environmental Compliance*

    How much does hair cut affect a person’s look in terms of professionalism?

    I really want to cut my hair into a pixie. It’s heavy AF (my hair barely is long enough to stay in a pony right now and it gives me headaches when it’s up), it’s hot, and I never have it down. 99% of the time, my hair’s pulled up, and not into anything styled, just….a ponytail or bun. I don’t do anything with it because I don’t like it. I don’t like it being in my face or on my neck. Plus I’m in and out of a hard hat constantly so my hair is constantly resquooshed and hot.

    But I’m worried that I will somehow look like I should be taken less seriously. I look young to begin with, and I’m the youngest member of the management team. I floated the idea around to a coworker in a previous office of chopping my hair back to a pixie, and got a really negative response.

    I’m not thinking really bright colors, and I wouldn’t be dying my hair (hair dye and my hair just don’t work well, and I have the pictures to prove it lol) – it’s just something like this: http://www.aprenderedes.net/wp-content/uploads/images/1516654292-short-haircuts-for-heart-shaped-face-hairstyle-fo-women-short-hairstyles-for-heart-shaped-faces.jpg

    Am I overthinking this and I should just go for it, or is there some basis behind those previous comments?

    1. Argh!*

      It probably depends on your local culture and your corporate culture. If you’re otherwise well put-together in an adult, professional way, most cultures will accept it.

    2. Ambpersand*

      I think if you style it well and have a put-together look otherwise, then there shouldn’t be a problem. I work in a pretty standard semi-professional office in a fairly conservative area, and there are plenty of women around here with shorter hairstyles. The basis for the previous comment you got was probably stemming from someone who doesn’t like short hair on women. It’s unfortunate, but common, since it’s not considered as “feminine” (read: traditional) as long hair. And as someone with really thick hair myself, I feel you. I think you should give it a shot!

      1. Environmental Compliance*

        I’m in a fairly conservative area, with a pretty casual office – most wear jeans & a decent top (polos often) if we’re not in our FR gear. There’s very few women in my office, and most have pretty long hair or they keep it up constantly as well.

        Oddly enough, the biggest pushback I got before was from a woman with shorter hair (like, long pixie/very short bob). She really harped on how young it makes everyone look and how detrimental that would be for my image. Oh, how I don’t miss OldBoss!

        2. Cousin Itt*

          My sister recently cut her hair into a pixie and honestly it makes her look older, not younger (and we are both of the round-faced, mistaken for teens on the reg persuasion)

        3. Forking Great Username*

          I disagree with pretty much any “X haircut makes everyone look younger” statement. I love having bangs, and left them grown out for a few years because I kept reading online that bangs read young, would make me like like one of the teens I’m teaching, etc. I finally just went for it this year, and in my opinion they look great! Even my supervising teacher said they looked stylish on me and didn’t make me look younger like I had let others convince me they would.

    3. Spider in a Meeting*

      I don’t see how that cut would be an issue, and I feel like long hair is usually attributed to ‘youth’ so a shorter cut may make you look older?? But I’m also in CA, and we don’t have as many ‘rules’ about these sorts of things haha.

    4. OlympiasEpiriot*

      That absolutely looks fine to me.

      Btw, even if hair color hasn’t worked well for you previously, consider this story: Many years ago, I decided I needed to make sure I looked a little older than I was. So, I had grey put into my hair. I’m brunette, so that meant using one of those highlighter caps where they pull some of the strands through, stripping all color off of those, and putting a blue rinse in. I had to have touch-ups done for a while, too, until I got through the worst of the period where I needed that and then I just let it grow out. Obviously, I went to a really good hair stylist for this.

      My mother had gotten a shock of silver at a very young age, so if anyone asked, I implied it was inherited.

      But, even though I still looked “young”, it stopped literally all questioning of my age. Instead, there was commentary about how “youthful” I seemed with some admiration. Changed the dialogue sufficiently.

      1. Spider in a Meeting*

        you PURPOSELY put gray in your hair? Wow. I’ve always looked young but I would never think to do that. Can you explain more as to why/how looking young was affecting you that much? And also what geographic region are you in? Were you single at the time, if so how was that impacted? (genuine curiosity not judgement)

        1. OlympiasEpiriot*

          In Big Glamorous Expensive City.

          I was 19, already had been living on my own for two years and paying my own way. Moved there (long story, wasn’t because I wanted to be in BGEC, but was “easiest” at the time). Got a job quickly at Very Old Fashioned Menswear Institution for the Christmas & post X’mas sales, then went directly into another full-time job when that ended, so I looked economically stable. Needed a place to live; really, really hard to find studios I could afford; I was trying to find an apartment share. I was absolutely NOT interested in sharing with students, nor the young-with-money. I wanted a quiet apartment near reliable transit with my own room and someone as a flatmate who wasn’t going to monitor my comings-and-goings but also wasn’t going to be a flake themselves. (I really wanted my own place, but, as I said before — expensive.) I was new to the city so my references were limited to my employers.

          Got far more offers in decent apartment shares once I looked older. I also didn’t get asked my age.

          1. OlympiasEpiriot*

            Oh, yeah, yes, I was single. I’ve never had any trouble getting playmates, so, I have no clue how that affected it.

            1. OlympiasEpiriot*

              Gawd, re-reading, that sounds really snooty. I don’t mean it that way. I was just trying to answer the question straightforwardly.

              Anyhow, no complaints were heard. If there had been any, they would have been sneered at and then the perp would have been ignored.

              1. Spider in a Meeting*

                haha no problem! I was curious if it made you more attractive to older matches (maybe you preferred that) or your-age matches that thought they were dating older.

                1. OlympiasEpiriot*

                  I have no idea. It seemed irrelevant.

                  People tend to respond to interest. Showing interest in the old days was a lot more immediate and fun than on-line stuff these days.

          2. Spider in a Meeting*

            ahhhh apartment/roommate shopping – makes total sense. I was thinking only in terms of your professional life, which I found the need for that a bit extreme (not that it would be out of the range of possibility). Very interesting sociologically though!

      2. Environmental Compliance*

        That is fascinating how the dialogue changed and I am incredibly curious to see it done IRL. I do have a couple grey splurts in my relatively dark brown hair (thanks, genetics!), and I’ve steadfastly pretended they weren’t there.

        1. OlympiasEpiriot*

          Once my real grey started coming in, I constantly pushed back on people telling me to color it. As I repeatedly say, every one of those strands tells a story and I Earned Each One.

          1. Environmental Compliance*

            My mom for a while was pushing coloring on me (she colors her hair, and has for several years – and it does look good on her!), and I told her to ask my dad where my greys come from. He went partially grey at 20!

            I don’t really have an opinion either way on covering greys – if that’s what you want, cool, go for it, doesn’t affect me at all. You don’t want to? Also cool. But it’s a decision that’s only yours to make!

      3. Reba*

        Amazing. I have thought about doing this several times.

        Had your stylist ever done it for anyone else?

        1. OlympiasEpiriot*

          No. But, they were very good and had done some stylist work as well as theater. So, they were creative. (Now deceased since 2002. I went to them for almost 20 years, even when I lived abroad, I’d return and schedule hair appointments.)

    5. Fiennes*

      There’s nothing unprofessional about a pixie cut. In fact, it’s rather difficult for a pixie cut to look unkempt—as opposed to longer hair—so my guess is you may well come across as more professional overall. At any rate, I doubt it will make people think you’re younger.

      1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

        I strongly disagree! I find that short hair requires more styling and attention to look good (or professionally appropriate). An unstyled pixie cut looks much less “done” than an otherwise-unstyled bun.

        When I had very short hair it took way more styling effort. I’ve settled into a chin-to-shoulder length bob as my forever haircut, mostly based on how little effort it takes with my very fine, wavy-but-not-in-a-stylish-way hair.

        1. Fiennes*

          When I think “pixie cut,” I’m thinking, “hair that is less than two inches long.” Some short hairstyles are higher-upkeep, but a true pixie shouldn’t require more than a little blow drying. There shouldn’t be enough hair to miss!

    6. Anon for now*

      A pixie cut can look very professional but you are likely going to have to style it some. I don’t think that it necessarily makes people look younger. In fact, I think long hair is more likely to look young. Try it!

      1. Environmental Compliance*

        I think too I’d be more willing to style it if there just wasn’t so darn much of it. No matter what I do right now it just flops down due to weight, and I can’t imagine a pixie looking less stylish than the pony/bun combo I got going right now lol.

      2. raktajino*

        The styling level will depend on your hair texture and cut (and I guess your definition of “professional”). I have slightly wavy, fine hair in an asymmetrical pixie (2″-5″) and just a bit of spray wax is all I need to keep it smooth and orderly. It takes me all of two seconds, way less time than I ever spent on longer hair.

        I agree that long hair is more likely to look young. (Again, depends on the cut.)

    7. GigglyPuff*

      If you want to not go full blown at first, you could always try an undercut. I’ve had longer hair but always hated the weight so started having short hair for years but got so tired of it, I started growing it out again and looked into different things and found the undercut and it’s amazing, and can work great with a short style too if you want to cut more off later.

      1. Environmental Compliance*

        Ooooh, I forgot about undercuts! I’ll have to check them out.

        I did have a pixie years ago when my hair got really damaged from snorkel gear, but the stylist who did that cut really didn’t know how to shape a pixie, so it looked weirdly boy band ish. I also didn’t know what to ask for and did little to no research, whereas this time I have a pretty good idea of what I’d be looking for.

        I’m the type of person that doesn’t really care if someone has streaks of bright colors in their hair, or a partially shaved head, or etc, so sometimes I worry that the lack of care I have isn’t typical for professional norms, and I was pretty taken aback by the response I got in last job where I started thinking about doing the Big Chop. So I think I am overthinking it and I should really just make the appointment!

        1. Short & Dumpy*

          I’m in a conservative part of the midwest & pixie cuts seem to be the “thing” right now for the older, most-senior women. They definitely look more put-together than the women with shoulder-length cuts.

          I have mine as a very very short pixie as well…but dyed bright red :) because, hey, technically allowed even if my boss did visibly cringe when I added the color.

          I will say there is almost no styling with a pixie if the cut is done correctly for your hair texture…just rub in a teeny dab of cream or mouse in the morning & it will look exactly the same when you get home.

    8. blink14*

      Go for it! I have curly/wavy hair that is fine in texture but very large in volume (hah). When it was long, I constantly pulled it up into a ponytail or a bun, and never really styled it beyond that for work because it was too much effort.

      I now have a short angled bob/lob and just by the nature of the haircut I have to put a little more work into styling it, but because of the way it’s cut, it’s a lot easier to deal with.

    9. OtterB*

      I’m with the commenters who think that long hair has more of a “young” vibe. Honestly, I know a lot of women (including me) who went from long hair to short, wash-and-wear styles when they returned to work after having a baby.

      If you can afford it, it might be worth spending the $ on a good stylist for at least the initial cut and specifically telling them you want something short and professional.

  171. Hopeful Job Seeker*

    I am currently in the process of finding a new job and earlier this week had a phone interview with a different department/office within my larger company. I mean that I currently work in the lama wrangling department and I interviewed with the lama grooming department, but both offices are under Lama Farms LLC. The interview felt very casual and more like a conversation as opposed to an interview and as it so happened the interviewer and I had a mutual friend (I didn’t know about it beforehand but the interviewer brought it up), but overall it went very well. The interviewer said that it would be about a week until I heard back about a potential in person interview. However, when I sent my thank you email the next day I almost immediately got a response asking to set up an in person interview. I chose the time that worked best and that was that. The interviewer never specified where the interview would take place so I would assume it’s at the office (I found their physical address online because it’s different from their mailing address).

    Here’s the rub, my current job is very dysfunctional and toxic, that’s an entirely different can of worms, and I’m worried that I won’t be able to spot potential red flags about this new job. My question to all of you is does either the interview being very informal or the interviewer not giving me more information about where the interview is seem like a red flag, or am I just trying to poke holes in this where there aren’t any? Also do you have any tips to spot red flags in an interview. I’m just so worried that I’m so desperate to leave my current job that I’ll go straight from the frying pan and into the fire.

    1. Catwoman*

      Those aren’t red flags to me. I had a very informal interview for my current position, which was also moving from one division to another within a larger organization. The interviewer and I knew each other from previous work so the tone was definitely conversational. Given that you have a mutual friend, the conversational tone doesn’t seem amiss. Also, I think when scheduling the interview, they will likely give you a location when confirming the time. That seems pretty normal, and they may be working on scheduling a space for the interview or other logistics before sending you a confirmation.

      1. Hopeful Job Seeker*

        That’s what I was thinking, but when I told my friend about it he seemed really concerned that they didn’t confirm the place. He works in different industry than I do and his is much more formal so I can see where it would beore concerning for him.

  172. Anonymoose for today*

    I am currently struggling with depression. It’s been affecting my work more and more over the last few months, there are probably going to be consequences, and I need advice on how to approach the issue / do damage control with my manager.

    Background: Near the end of 2017, my partner and I moved from a big, fun, expensive city to a lovely, small, remote town on the opposite coast. We relocated so my spouse could take a full-time job that pays much better than anything either of us could have found in the city. I was able to keep my part-time job and work remotely. My workflow and schedule at this job were always very flexible/self-directed, but working from home has given me absolute autonomy for the first time. I figured that would be a challenge but also a good thing for me.

    The first few months were good, but sometime around February-March I started to feel the strain of both the relocation and the major shift in my work life. I started to fall behind at work. I was able to keep up with tasks that were cyclical (e.g. weekly deadlines) or directly related to someone else’s immediate work, but I neglected things that more easily went unnoticed by others if they didn’t get done right away. Then I started spending less time even on the cyclical/noticeable tasks. Serious/time-consuming life stuff came up: illnesses, injuries, a car wreck, a sick pet, house guests, travel planning, home repairs. Household logistics mostly fall to me since I’m at home and don’t work full-time, and that side of my life started to take over. Then I started procrastinating on even those family-related tasks when I could. The more I fell behind on everything, the worse I felt, and the more I avoided dealing with the work backlog even though I would wake up every day swearing, “This is the day I tackle that backlog!” I’d try to do it, start to panic, and find something else to do instead.

    About six weeks ago I realized my avoidant behavior and lack of motivation were consistent with depressive episodes I’d had as a student (8+ years ago). I started therapy and saw a doctor for meds, but my previously effective meds didn’t work this time, and I had no motivation even to call the doctor for a refill, so I ran out and started feeling a LOT worse. I had a crappy couple of weeks where I didn’t feel up to doing much of anything. That was when I realized this depressive episode ranks in my top three and I might have really screwed myself.

    My boss, who is a very warm and compassionate person, has noticed things are falling through the cracks. I’m at the point where I need to explain myself, and I don’t know what to tell her. The worst part is I’ve actually lied about the status of a couple of things. I told her some important documentation was further along than it was, partly to cover my failure, but also to force myself into a corner where I HAD to get that thing moving. (Spoiler: I didn’t get it moving.)

    Where in the world do I go from here? I’m still in therapy and have an appointment next week to fix my meds (the earliest appt I could get), but even if my depression gets under control immediately, I’ll still have some explaining to do.

    1. Argh!*

      If you can afford it, see if you can get medical leave for a few weeks to take the pressure off one part of your life.

      It would be better to quit or take time off than to ruin your reputation. The other medical things you mentioned besides depression would make a good story for a future employer on why you quit this job, if you decide that’s what you want to do. (Also, those things do put stress on your body, and your brain lives in your body, so go easy on yourself!)

      1. Anonymoose for today*

        Thanks for replying, and for your compassion!

        Medical leave or even quitting is certainly a possibility in my mind, as a realistic path for the long term. In the short term, though, I need to figure out a way to explain where things are with my workload and why they are that way. To do otherwise would definitely be a reputation killer. I wouldn’t be able to simply say I’m leaving since someone would have to be brought up to speed on my work, and my input would be crucial for that.

        My preference would be to somehow get my essential tasks to a stage where someone else would be able to take them over, in case I do need to walk away. Or I have to come clean about the status of things, and maybe ask for help (like from an intern or assistant) to catch me up. Or come clean and then quit (not ideal). My biggest uncertainty is how to communicate the situation and how much to share re: my personal issues.

        I hope someone has experience with this!

        1. Argh!*

          What would you do if you had cancer?

          Depression really is a serious disease. You may overestimate your energy level, attention level, and ability to communicate. If you were really able to get your essential tasks in order, you wouldn’t be writing what you’re writing.

          You probably don’t have enough time in the job to qualify for FMLA, but they may be willing to let you have a leave of absence. I’ve never worked from home, so take what I say with a grain of salt. What will work for you probably depends on how well you and your supervisor know each other.

          1. Argh!*

            It’s like having a broken leg and thinking “After I run this next mile I’ll get my broken leg fixed!”

            Not to be harsh, but aspiring to do more than you’re currently able to do will worsen the condition.

            1. Anonymoose for today*

              No, that’s not harsh, it’s a good reality check. Overestimating my current capabilities is what got me into this mess!

              If I got a cancer diagnosis or broke my leg, I’d automatically take it seriously and would have no motive to delay telling my employer. But I have been depressed and sinking for MONTHS. The illness played a role in keeping me silent (by making it easy for me to delude myself, by weighing me down with negative thoughts and feelings, by making it harder for me to deal with the stress of disclosing). But I could have said something. I could have at least asked for some of my tasks to be distributed elsewhere when I first realized I was behind.

              I can’t just say “I’m sick and need time off.” I would have to say some version of “I’m sick and need time off, and also here is this pile of poop I’ve been building up for you to deal with, hope you’re not mad!” You mentioned my reputation earlier. Handing my boss a pile of poop and walking away, no matter the reason, seems likely to hurt my reputation. I have to balance that concern against the concern for my health. And to be clear, one isn’t more life-or-death than the other in this case; I’m not suicidal.

    2. Catwoman*

      I think it’s totally fair to communicate to your boss that you’ve been experiencing medical issues and previously effective medication is proving to be ineffective but you have an appointment to hopefully rectify that. State that you know you’ve been falling behind and that you’ve feel guilty about it and had been hoping to be able to catch yourself up before it was problematic but it just hasn’t proved to be possible. Apologize. I would avoid owning up to the lying if you can (and want to keep your job), but that may not be possible at this stage.

      Another thing that may help is using a timer to help you get some work done and break your work down into the smallest tasks you possibly can. If you can say work for 15 minutes on outlining the XYZ report or sourcing photos for the Y newsletter then maybe that can give you some momentum to get back on track.

      It may help to also think for the long term about if working from home is right for you. Could you find a part-time position in your new location? Is it possible to take your work to a coffee shop or remote-work space?

      This is hard. You are seeking help and moving forward. That in and of itself is a big deal. I’m cheering for you!

      1. Anonymoose for today*

        Thank you, this is helpful! I think the communication strategy you describe could be manageable for me. It’s been so hard to know what to say.

        I think working from home is often great for me, but it works best if I have a lot of deadlines and cycles to help keep me on task, and I’ve found those only work if they’re visible to others (rather than merely self-imposed). Being self-directed to this degree, this much of the time, isn’t working well. And I probably need some commitments outside of the house, to help manage my depression if for no other reason. I’m lonely. I’m thinking of going for an adjunct instructor job at the local community college (although I have no experience applying for that type of academic job, I’ve only done tutoring before).

        1. Argh!*

          I had wondered about whether you felt isolated. Having been a tutor, you may be able to make the same money tutoring or teaching, with those deadlines that you seem to need. Work-from-home isn’t for everyone!

        2. Catwoman*

          I’m glad that’s helpful! Reading what you wrote about how working from home is great if you have visible deadlines, maybe that’s something worth working with your boss on. Maybe you can give weekly updates on your less visible projects to help keep you more accountable. I think talking to your boss will be more effective if you can admit fault, let them know what you’re doing to address the underlying issues and what your plan is for getting back on track.

          I’m sure getting out of the house will help a lot too! I know that’s been a huge thing for me when I’ve had depressive episodes. Good luck!

      2. Ambpersand*

        I think these are all good ideas. Could you also divide the outstanding tasks on your to-do list into smaller, more manageable pieces? Personally I like to categorize my to-do lists from most important to least important, and start from the top. It makes it easier not to feel like I’m drowning. And then sometimes it’s easier to divide it up and tackle small chunks at a time, rather than looking at the imposing mountain of Very Important Work and getting more behind. Maybe you could even categorize them into things you can do day-by-day: “Monday I need to get the reports done, and that’s all.” “Today I’ll work on project A for one hour, then focus on project B for an hour.” Obviously tweak as needed, but maybe a work strategy would help- and it would give you something to provide your boss to show that you’re working on getting caught up.

  173. Looking For Hope*

    For those of you who work from home: what kind of job do you have and what steps did you take to get there?

    Myself and a few of my friends are all young and disabled and could use some advice and stories about how people survive when not working at regular job. What led you to want/have to work at home? Was there schooling involved or did you manage to get by without it? Any information would be helpful and all stories are welcome as it’s nice to hear from people who have done it before. I know personally I could use the boost in hope.

    1. jo*

      It took me a long time, but I work from home now! I worked full-time in book publishing (not at a big publisher but at literary agencies) for several years to get my start, and over time I developed specialized skills that allowed me to progress in my career in small increments. When my partner also started working full-time, it enabled me to leave my full-time job. At first I shifted to two part-time jobs, one of which was still at a literary agency. The other was in academia. Then, during a summer break from the academic job, I wanted to pick up something else to replace the lost income and potentially not go back to the academic job in the fall. So I cold-emailed my resume to several agencies, explaining the type of work I was good at and how many hours a week I was available, asking if they could use a part-timer or freelancer. Literary agencies are usually small businesses, some very small, meaning they don’t necessarily want to spend the budget on someone full-time to do certain tasks, if those tasks can be accomplished on a part-time schedule. But most people in my industry prefer to work full-time … which makes me rare. I was right that several businesses were interested in what I was offering, and I picked the one that suited me best. It turned out they have a good setup for remote work, which a lot of people use, and when I had to move away I was able to keep working for them remotely.

      I also do freelance projects on the side sporadically, and that side of things has been slowly growing through referrals. I could probably grow it faster if I would get off my butt and create a website to draw in people who otherwise wouldn’t hear of me through a referral.

    2. Ambpersand*

      My sister has been working from home full time since 2012, and got her position through a standard job posting on a website like Indeed. It started out as a web-based chat support role (she had no experience or training for it), and has since worked her way up from entry level to various team leads, and now she’s a senior manager. She wanted a WFH job because they live in a pretty remote area, and the one she found paid the same as her previous position as a CNA. Have you tried looking at remote-specific job boards?

        1. Ambpersand*

          Check the link in my username- it’s an article from Forbes that lists some pretty decent/reliable ones. I’ve only ever used FlexJobs, but the others should be good as well.

          1. Ambpersand*

            Some of those are for tech-specific fields only, but the others would be a good place to start looking.

  174. Argh!*

    I got credited for my brilliant idea… anonymously! I hate that!

    An email went out to everyone in a working group and people who are providing feedback for them that said “Someone suggested… and we’re looking into implementing it.”

    Not someone! MEEEE!!!!!

    My boss will also do this. Every other department’s monthly reports name names but my boss credits all her subordinates for things only one or two people accomplish.

    Yes, this is the midwest, where values like “modesty” and “don’t toot your horn” translate to vapid anonymity and low raises for people who report to the most midwestern of the supervisors.

  175. NaoNao*

    People who got their TOSEL certificate: did you feel that it opened up possibilities and doors for you? Is it worth it?
    I’m at a crossroads here. Same field/job title but different companies for 8 years, independant contributor and I have tried to break into management (kind of the only step forward for my field) and due to lack of experience, I keep getting auto rejects and passed over for other candidates. I’ve also tried looking into stuff that’s adjacent (transferable skills, etc) or that draws on my previous field, same thing: auto rejects, thanks but no thanks.

    At the start of my professional career, I looked into teaching English overseas, and saw a lot of postings really wanted that TOSEL cert or degree. The cert is a “MA certificate” and it’s only 15 credits. I could swing it, but is it worth it?

    I’d look into teaching classes at colleges, working for non profits that need assistance with language for incoming refugees and immigrants, or teaching abroad as possible paths with this cert. Also just having a high level of education in anything, even if it’s just a cert not a degree, I feel is a boost on the old resume.

    Thoughts?

    1. Foreign Octopus*

      I got my TEFL certificate about two years ago and the opportunities that it’s opened to me have been the ability to work abroad and earn significantly higher than the local population – I’m in Spain. It’s also given me the ability to work 25 hours per week (my choose) and to work for myself.

      I should say that I don’t consider it a long term career plan but if you’re looking for a break for a few years then I do recommend getting a certificate. Most language academies in Spain want a TEFL certificate (don’t get one online, find an accredited centre) and when it comes with a native speaker, even better. As a headsup, my course took three months and cost just over €1000 but it’s more than paid for itself since then.

      Good luck.

  176. LadyKelvin*

    I mentioned last week that my coworker got fired and all the women were happy but the men not so much. Well this week one of the people in our office who he didn’t work with but was close socially with sent around an envelope with a couple of cards in it that said things like “you can do it, hang in there” and “You’re incredible, you’ll be great” for people to sign as a sign of support and an envelope for monetary contributions. This is bad enough but ok, if you are friends with this guy and believe his story (which I don’t because I know most of the backstory of the firing) then maybe you feel bad and want to send him some positive vibes. But the guy organizing this made a list of all the people who the fired guy knew and put in on the front of the envelope so you could cross your name off if you got the cards. So now my name and several of the people he harassed are on this envelope and it is obvious that we didn’t sign it, but also it makes it seem like we don’t agree with his firing. I have never been so upset and uncomfortable about something and had no idea what to do. I just marked my name off and passed it along without signing it. I warned some of the other folks about it but they had already gotten it as well and opted not to sign. In one coworker’s words “I panicked! I didn’t know what to do!”

    1. Anon for now*

      You can bring it up to HR. This is inappropriate and should be nipped in the bud.

      1. Ambpersand*

        Agreed. And if there’s no HR, you should definitely talk to your own manager/his about it.

  177. Ambpersand*

    Calling out all marketing professionals who work with social media! I have a question strictly related to portfolios. Long story short, I graduated a few years ago with a degree in communications and new media content production, but have ended up in a non-related field. I would really like to work with social media and marketing, and have begun volunteering my time with a local organization to get the necessary experience and after six months, I now manage all of their social media platforms. It’s a big task but I’ve had a lot of success so far and my goal is to leverage my experience for an actual paying job once I hit the one year mark. I’ve seen some marketing/media job postings that are asking for a portfolio, but I’m wondering what types of specifics I should include? My focus is broadly content focused, and not strictly writing or professional graphic design. Any tips on websites or things to keep in mind as I start putting things together?

    1. Ambpersand*

      ALSO! Any recommendations on certifications or certain types of marketing/media training from those of you in the field would be greatly appreciated. I’ve done some research but don’t really have a good idea of what’s “good to have and will impress on a resume” versus “a total waste of time.”

  178. nep*

    That I received no response after applying to a job I know I’d be great at doesn’t mean I wouldn’t be great at it. Have to keep this in mind and keep at it.
    Good luck, all job-hunters.

    1. nep*

      (Of course–All the while I continue to work on demonstrating this in my application/resume/letter.)

  179. FirstTimeCaller*

    I’m going up for a “promotion” (3/4 time to full time, title change) and I’m hoping to negotiate. Our small non-profit is notorious for having “take it or leave it” offers. I have been here for 3 years, done excellent work, and have had only glowing reviews. PTO jumps at the 5 year mark from 2 weeks to 4 weeks. My question is: if salary is non-negotiable, how can I angle for the PTO jump instead? How can I counter any “that wouldn’t be fair” comeback? I feel like not being able to negotiate at all isn’t fair, and the work I’ve done for the organization has been stellar- I’d like to be rewarded for that. Any advice would be helpful, and if I’m dreaming, please tell me that too!

    1. Anon for now*

      If they are notorious for “take it or leave it offers” there may be very little you can do. You can definitely ask, but if they have a blanket policy for PTO there may be little you can do. Since you have worked there for three years, you may be able to have those count towards the 5 years if they don’t already.

    2. Amaryllis*

      Agree with Anon for now: ask to have your original service date counted as your hire date for all company policies (PTO accrual, work anniversaries, retirement vesting, eligibility towards bennies like tuition if applicable).

  180. Haunted Doll Watch*

    Hey all, may be too late for an answer but: how old is too old to make a major career change?

    I’ve been relatively unhappy in my career path and have long thought about going back to school to become a paralegal. I know it’s a difficult field to get into, but I think it is the type of work I would enjoy and feel fulfilled by. Assuming the average length of a certificate program is 6 months to a year, that’ll put me at 32. Is….that too old? Am I too late? Any advice on that choice and career would be much appreciated. Thank you!

    1. Spider in a Meeting*

      Here I thought you were going to say you were 52 or 62… not 32!
      32 is pretty much not too old for anything – except for maybe unicorn backpacks (although I know people who rock those!)

    2. OhGee*

      I’m 37 and have effectively changed careers three times. Most recently, I switched from arts education to program management and fundraising (both at different nonprofits) – that was four years ago. My mom went from being a waitress to being a nurse at 40. I know people who have switched careers at 50. There might be some fields in which the required education is so time consuming you might not want to go through it at 32 (e.g. 8 years of med school, perhaps), but other than that, it’s literally never too late.

    3. beanie beans*

      Definitely not too old or too late! You’re so young!

      A friend who went to med school at 40 put it a good way – in 8 years I’ll be 48 no matter what. I can be 48 in the same job that I hate, or I can be 48 doing something I hope to love.

      Go for it!

    4. Fiennes*

      LOL — I made my last big career switch at 39! It’s about a decade later, and I love my work, but if I did want to switch, I’d still go after it. That said, if you’re switching after 45-50, I think you have to be realistic about maybe not having time to advance as far as you might ideally like to go. But 32? No sweat.

    6. Another Person*

      I changed careers at 40; my husband changed careers at 50. The trick to career changing in middle age is going into a field where there’s enough demand that employers don’t care so much about your non-traditional career trajectory.

      32 is still young, though! You shouldn’t have problems in a growing field.

      1. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

        Thanks for this data point – Im in that age bracket and wondering if it is worth sticking with my current field or try something new with higher demand potential for the future. Glad to see it CAN happen!

    8. Chaordic One*

      I recently met a man who was studying at a nearby community college to be a CNA. I would have guessed that he was around 50 or so to look at him. I was told that he works out regularly at a gym and he did look very fit. I was flabbergasted to learn that he is 70!

      Even if he only works for a couple of years as a CNA, I think that he’ll be contributing something and making the world a little bit better by doing work that needs to be done.

    9. rear mech*

      My mom is in the process of getting her LVN certificate at 61! (Licensed Vocational Nurse)
      I am your age and looking for a new career in a better paying field. I hope it’s not too late for us!

    10. AnonymousInfinity*

      I’m in my early 30’s and recently changed careers. I’ve done it three times now.

      I was a paralegal for a number of years. My boss refused to hire anyone WITH a Paralegal certificate. She wanted a Bachelor’s degree and a good GPA. You may want to check around and see if you really need to go through a Paralegal program to land a position. If you haven’t already, check job listings and see what qualifications are being required/preferred.

      Also, my brutally honest answer: I would never recommend the job to anyone. My advice to real life people is to run from this field as fast as they can. Although I loved the work I did, the work environment was verbally and emotionally abusive, dysfunctional, and stressful. The pay was crap ($25-30K salary for 65-70 hour weeks; the boss wanted us billing upwards of 8 hours a day; we were screamed at if we took lunch or breaks; I was on-call during my honeymoon for questions the boss had about my cases; we had to make up vacation time to keep billables up; the firm was tiny without HR). This is the norm, not the exception, at least in my area, where horror stories are a dime a dozen. I’ve never met a legal professional–secretary, paralegal, attorney–who was happy in their respective environments. But they all seemed to love the work itself, and so did I (I channeled it into accreditation/program assessment). Just my experience. YMMV. Go in with your eyes and ears open – if there’s high turnover at the firm, run.

  181. Lily Evans*

    When someone brings free muffins to work and you don’t want a whole one, why bother grabbing a knife and cutting one in half when you can TEAR THE ENTIRE MUFFIN TOP OFF WITH YOUR BARE HANDS? I would have really enjoyed a muffin, but for some strange reason a crumbly decapitated muffin bottom isn’t appetizing to me. I work with monsters.

    1. Spider in a Meeting*

      don’t you know that the top of the muffin is the only good part? That is why they did that, not because they wanted a portion of the muffin. And that’s just rude (I don’t feel cutting it in half down the vertical middle is, though), take the whole muffin and just throw away the rest if you don’t want it.
      There’s a whole Seinfeld episode on “muffin tops” (the edible kind, not the pants phenomenon)

  182. Inver*

    For anyone whose been through it before, how do you know if your company is going under? Have there been any small but clear signs that tipped you off? Once X person left, you knew?

    I’m starting to get the unshakeable suspicion that the company I work for is going down. So many people have left, including the head honcho and some pretty tenured and talented people from all levels of the organization. We are a tech support/customer service call center, so some of this is normal, but historically we have had very low turnover because it was a good place to work that paid more than the average wage in our area.

    In addition to people leaving, the relationship with our client has soured and opportunities from them have started drying up. I asked about interviewing advice for an internal position in last week’s thread, and after interviewing, all candidates got an email that let us know that the client no longer wished to move forward with the position. This happened to another position, too.

    There is a ton of stress and instability at the center right now, and I don’t know if this is a death spiral or not. If anyone has been through their company going down, I’d be very interested to what signs you saw beforehand.

    1. Ann Furthermore*

      I left my last job after my boss quit. That was the last straw. People had been dropping like flies, and no one was being rehired to back-fill those positions because the owner wanted to save money. When I started there, there were 10-15 people in the office in that location (it was a very small company). Now it’s down to the owner and 3 other people. For me it was finally realizing that the software the company produces really, truly, doesn’t work. Or it works, but it’s very unstable. For the longest time I thought I was some kind of half-wit because I couldn’t figure out how to use it.

      If there are no new customers coming in, that’s a bad sign too. Or if you go to trade shows and don’t come away with a bunch of new leads. Also, if people are promising everything under the sun to potential customers (some of this is common to an extent, but if it’s to the point that you’re pretty much giving your product away, that’s not good), or giving existing customers tons of stuff for free to keep them happy (again, this happens, and as long as it’s within reason, that’s fine), that not promising either.

  183. Need me some supplies*

    My boss just scolded me (“scolded” is a bit harsher than it was) for doing something that I did not realize was unprofessional. I of course will try my hardest to remember not to do it again around her, but I’m wondering what the general consensus is. We were at a meeting with a number of other people, and I had a few quick things to ask of people who were at the meeting, so when the meeting was over and people were packing up, I took advantage of being in the same place as those people to ask those questions. One of the questions/requests was actually of my boss; she was going to be coming to my office later and I asked if she could bring an office supply catalog. (We do not work in the same building.) Apparently it was unprofessional to have asked her in the setting we were in, and I should have emailed or texted her. Was I really in the wrong? I do this after meetings all the time, so I want to know if I should be stopping!

    1. Anon for now*

      I think this is a “know your office” thing. A request to remember to bring something to a meeting probably would be more useful in an e-mail since she is probably thinking about the meeting and other questions people are asking her right then and is likely to forget or not want to think about that meeting yet.

    2. Catwoman*

      I do this all the time and see other people do it all the time. I think it’s only rude if you’re trying to have a long discussion that should obviously be another meeting or if you see that the person is clearly rushing off to somewhere else. I always preface it with, “Do you have time for a quick question?”

      Full disclosure: I work in higher ed and we can have strange norms.

    3. Queen of Cans & Jars*

      I think calling it “unprofessional” is extreme. It seems like a very reasonable thing to ask someone in any setting, and the only objection I could see her having is that she might not remember it later. In that case, a friendly, “hey could you email me that so I don’t forget” should suffice.

      1. Need me some supplies*

        To be fair, she didn’t actually use the word “unprofessional.” It was more in her tone when she was talking to me. I totally can see the not-remembering-later objection (the “later” in this case was all of 30 minutes, but I still get it) but her words were more along the lines of “you shouldn’t have brought that up in the room with so many other people” and she used her “I am being critical of you” tone of voice. (In the moment, she told me to email her assistant, who proceeded not to see my email until it was too late.)

        1. Natalie*

          It still seems like she’s being weird about it. I would remember this as something about her, but I don’t think you need to worry this particular bit of behavior in past or future jobs.

    4. TotesMaGoats*

      I do this ALL THE TIME. I work with some lovely people who are buried under mountains of emails. In person is the only way to get answers sometimes.

      The only thing I can think is that your boss may have been ticked because it might have sounded like a underling was telling the boss to fetch and carry in front of other colleagues. That’s stupid but I think that might be the source.

      2. AnonymousInfinity*

        Yep. Every time I email my coworkers little things like “hey, could you bring X to Meeting Y?”…they don’t see the email until two days later. Invariably. So I catch them in person, wherever that happens to be.

        But when it’s my boss? I’m much, much, much more discreet about it and make sure to phrase the request with appropriate deference, so it doesn’t come off as if I’m giving a task to my boss.

  184. Teapot librarian*

    Oh, Hoarder Employee. This week I successfully divested him of one of his big projects AND 15 boxes of old newspapers! Unfortunately…that means that I can’t include those in my list of times-he-didn’t-follow-managerial-instructions. (I gave him a deadline on the newspapers. He didn’t meet it so I started the project–the dumpster was full so I couldn’t do it all at one time–and he finished it the following day.) I do not have the hours of time I need to spend managing him. Shouldn’t I need to tell him to use “track changes” only once (plus a general instruction in a staff meeting, accompanied by a “how to use track changes” one-pager)? And also only need to tell him once to keep email discussions in a single email chain, rather than sending attachments completely divorced from their context?

    1. Corky's Wife Bonnie*

      My goodness, you could write a book by the time you’re done working with him!

    2. Enough*

      Actually I think the newspaper thing can be on your list. He missed the deadline requiring you to start the job. Missing a deadline is failing to follow instructions. You just acknowledge he did finish it the next day after you started it.

      1. Teapot librarian*

        Absolutely, you’re right. It’s just not *as* bad as if he hadn’t done it at all. (I was actually expecting him to hide the newspapers. But not only are the boxes empty, but I spotted the papers in the dumpster.)

  185. Anonymous for this*

    I am working for a small, family-owned business. (I know, I KNOW!)

    The owner’s daughter is bullying me. On Tuesday, she harassed me in front of clients, tried to gossip about me to a client, and then bolted away to call the owner while crying. I handled the clients myself until the owner arrived, then… embarrassingly, also cried, and left early.

    I waited to leave until no clients were present, so I was sort of hiding in various spots and crying for about 30 minutes. I did this because I’m terrible at lying and I had no idea what I would say if a client spotted me and asked if I was all right.

    Since then, I’ve had several conversations with the owner. We argued initially but had a calm conversation yesterday and she was kind to me afterwards. (The daughter is not talking to me, which suits me just fine.) I have been asking her to prevent workplace bullying. I haven’t backed down from calling it bullying, asking for it to stop, or stating that I will leave if it happens again.

    I have sort of assumed since Tuesday that I will either be fired or quit, because I am:
    1. accusing her daughter of something
    2. telling her to change how she is managing her daughter
    3. threatening to quit

    Can I just have some kind of reality check here? Am I the asshole? Or, am I one of the assholes?

    I have had very bad experiences with bullying, harassment, and behavior that went beyond those things in the past that taught me that it will not stop unless someone interferes (which never happened), I convince the bully to stop, or I leave. I know that I am extremely sensitive on this issue and I worry that I could be overreacting defensively.

    At the same time, I worry that I could, by responding less stridently, demonstrate that bullying is acceptable. I could teach this girl that she can do this to other employees. Or I could show my manager that she doesn’t need to create a workplace safe from bullying and harassment.

    1. Ladylike*

      If you’ve had a lot of the same issues in the past, the first thing I would do is take an honest look at how you interact with people and see if it’s contributing. Do you purposely (or subconsciously) push buttons because you don’t like the person? Or did you fail to set firm boundaries early in your relationship, and it escalated to this level? Is there any chance you’re being too sensitive to run-of-the-mill cattiness? If the answer is no to all of these, and you generally get along with most people, then she’s probably just being a jerk.

      My advice is not to quit unless you have a backup plan. Do the best you can, and let the employer take action if that’s what it comes to. At least if you’re fired, you’ll be eligible for unemployment (I’m assuming this based on the laws in my area).

      1. Anonymous for this*

        My answer to those questions in this specific situation is “no,” but I can think of times when I have done those things before. Particularly, I have failed to set boundaries early in relationships, and I have been too sensitive to minor trouble. I don’t know.

        This is only a part-time job that I am using to learn industry-specific skills. It doesn’t make up a significant part of my income. I would like to stay and keep learning, but I’m not facing unemployment if I leave.

    2. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      I don’t think we can say whether you’re the asshole without knowing more. From what you’ve written, you’ve done nothing assy.

      But a few details you shared things make me think it might be worth investigating further:

      1) The boss’ daughter left your meeting crying. That could be unrelated, it could be bullying manipulation, it could be an unreasonable response to your reasonable boundary-setting… or you could have been an asshole.

      2) It sounds like you’ve had these kinds of problems in multiple situations in the past. That could be just terrible luck, or it could be compounding on itself… or you could be an asshole and folks are responding to you in kind.

      3) The fact that you’re wondering about whether you’re the asshole might be a clue that you’re not totally comfortable with your behavior.

      Good luck! This kind of self-reflection is tough. I hope you’re doing ok!

      1. A Nickname for AAM*

        I want to add on, people who are frequently victims of bullying are made to feel as if it is their fault they are being bullied. It’s one of the core manipulations of an abuser, which is abusing you for something absurd and then acting as if there is something a) wrong with you for making them abusing you b) being upset that they are abusing you c) you are the one abusing them.

        Someone who hasn’t done something wrong, then, will be thinking “Did I do something wrong? Am I unreasonable?” as a result of the bullying. It’s one of the ways bullying abuse is pernicious and pervasive.

      2. Anonymous for this*

        1. I don’t know why she cried and I only heard about it from her parent later. At first, I thought she cried on the phone to her parent as a manipulative tactic, but now I think she was very upset and calling her parent for support.

        2. I’m a member of several groups that experience prejudice where I live (LGBT, for example) and that has resulted in a lot of bullying – but one can be both a genuine target and an asshole.

        3. See, that’s a point.

  186. Anxious and anon*

    My company recently moved to a new location. Before everyone who wasn’t management sat in their own cubical, with 5 foot walls and lots of space between cubes. Now the building is older and has no open space, so everyone gets an office. Management gets their own and everyone else shares. I am sharing with my coworker, the other person with the same job and title as me. She has done this job before for about as long as I have but is new to the company. She replaced someone who retired.

    I’m a huge introvert and have bad social anxiety and general anxiety. I’m in therapy but it still affects me a lot. I like this job because I don’t have to deal with anyone external except by email and my coworkers mostly by mail and otherwise in person in small doses. I am mostly okay socially with people I’m around all the time like my coworkers.

    My office mate is an extrovert and social butterfly. She deals with people always by phone or in person. She is vivacious and charismatic. Ah gives talks about our work and the organization. Peoples love being around her. She is the exact opposite of me in that regard.

    I am at BEC stage with her over it. She is perfect nice and hasn’t done anything wrong. The phone and in person stuff is work related. She is allowed to do it. She does her work and does not skip work to socialize.

    I hate that I feel this way. I realize it is a reflection on me and not her. How do I handle this when she hasn’t done anything wrong and it’s my problem? I feel like jerk over this.

    1. SpaceNovice*

      It sounds like you two simply aren’t compatible office-mates. I would talk to HR and see what can be done; it sounds like you should switch offices with someone. You’re right in that it’s just incompatibility. It happens. You’ll have to talk to her sometime too about the incompatibility but HR can help you figure out how to start that. Your boss might also be another resource. I’ve had incompatible roommates in college that were perfectly nice people, and this is basically just the professional version of it.

      1. Anxious and anon*

        Unfortunately switching offices is not an option. If one of us moved it would severely impact the time and workflow. There are no other empty offices so a switch would also severely impact the work of others because their workflow would be impacted. HR and the management was clear never we moved that assigned offices are final so as not to disrupt workflow. Also since she isn’t doing anything wrong and is not stopping me from working or distracting me, asking to switch because I don’t like her for no reason won’t fly.

        1. SpaceNovice*

          Dang, that’s tough! I don’t know what to do off the top of my head if you can’t be moved. I hope some of the others have good advice you can use.

    2. Ann Furthermore*

      I’m a major introvert too, so I feel your pain. I’ve gotten to the point though, where I realize that while I have huge hermit tendencies and really love my alone time, it’s good for me to get out in the world and interact with people. I would love to work from home all the time, but it would be (and has been) easy for me to go days and days without ever leaving the house. I just don’t think that’s healthy (speaking just for myself).

      I work in a completely open office, and it has been quite an adjustment. I use headphones and listen to music quite a bit, which helps. The other thing I do is to come in early, around 7:15. Most of my coworkers don’t show up until closer to 9. So I have some nice quiet time in the morning before people start showing up, which helps offset the noise and activity that comes later in the day.

      I also make myself leave my desk every day during lunch, and I take a 15-20 minute walk. It helps me clear my head and get a mini-recharge for the rest of the day. Since I bring lunch most of the time, I take another 20 minutes or so to eat lunch in the lunchroom and bury my nose in a book. So that usually adds up to about a 45 minute break from my desk. Between that, and the quiet time in the morning, it has really helped me adjust to working in the open office.

      1. Anxious and anon*

        We have mandatory business hours and can’t start work early or leave late. I wish we could.

        I’m not BEC because I’m an introvert and she is distracting me or making noise. I’m BEC because I jealous and hate that she is the opposite of me.

        1. Rey*

          Have you mentioned this in therapy? I wonder if a professional would have some ideas about a starting point to addressing this or some coping behaviors, seeing as you just said that the BEC is because of your own feelings and emotions, not her behavior. Please update next week–I really hope this works out for you!

          1. Anna Held*

            Just remember — she sounds lovely, but also exhausting. And yes it’s hard to have someone so different from you, and so shiny, up in your space all day. But if you do good work and are pleasant, people will take to you too, and some will probably be relieved to have someone low key they can relate to (and they’re not likely to tell you this). Ugly sister syndrome can make you jealous and then petty, though, and that’s what you’ve got to watch out for. Try to stay petty and professional, and remember it’s your problem, not hers (and do go to therapy for help). Maybe focus on your life outside of work so this doesn’t bother you so much. And wear headphones!

            You might also brush up your resume. The details of the job don’t matter, you’re not going to thrive in this environment, and it never hurts to look.

  187. Salem S.*

    Tips for not getting distracted at work? I’m still in college, so the only “office-y” jobs I’ve had are a couple summer internships. (I work at school, but it’s at a cafe so a completely different type of work–and I HAVE to stay on task because of the constant orders.) I’ve enjoyed the internships I’ve had, but the work is admittedly pretty mind-numbing–typing info into an excel sheet, organizing and checking off invoices, copy-pasting edits that other people have done, etc. I probably spend only about half the day (!) actually doing work, and the other half is mindlessly clicking through the internet, staring into space, or re-organizing things I’ve already done. I’ve only ever had good reviews from my various managers, and somehow am often praised about my quick work rate? I don’t understand that, because I feel like I spend so much time doing nothing. I’m the same way in school work too, so I don’t think it’s just because of the rote work I’m doing. I’d appreciate any tips, because I’m very frustrated with my inability to focus.

    1. Natalie*

      Have you ever tried the pomodoro technique? It’s essentially planned distraction – you work for a certain amount of time, then take a break for a certain amount of time. There are a bunch of free pomodoro timers available. I like one called Tide, because it is pretty and has a good UX.

      1. De Minimis*

        Another vote for pomodoro. I have similar distraction issues and it’s helped me in the past.

        I also create lists of tasks…once those are done, I allow myself to goof off for a bit.

      2. SpaceNovice*

        Also voting for Pomodoro. You can mess with the lengths of time in some apps. I use my Fitbit Versa and the Fitbit app Tomatina. Something quiet and unobtrusive to others is best. (I’ll have to look into Tide!)

    2. CatCat*

      It’s not really a problem to get distracted and click around the internet when your work is getting done and you’re praised the the quality and speed of your work. I used to kind of worry about it too, but then I had a boss who said to me, “Enjoy the downtime because it’s counterbalanced by the busy times.” Which, where I work, is true. Sometimes we are just crazy busy and sometimes things are slow. I’ve learned to enjoy the distractions in the slow times :-)

      You can also talk to your bosses about taking on more responsibility, projects you’re interested in, and ideas for professional development. There may be options to build up your expertise when you have the capacity to do so!

    3. This Daydreamer*

      The only thing that works for me is Ritalin (yes it’s prescription! street drugs are bad, yo). Or actually having plenty of interesting work to do. Sometimes it takes both.

      Right now, it’s not working. Here I am on the internet and I’ve got four and a half hours left. I do get a lot of free time here, but it’s eating me alive at the moment. Why is there nothing worth watching on television?!

      Maybe I’m not the one to ask. But I do sympathize.

  188. rubyrose*

    Keep doing what you are doing.

    I had to drop out of the workforce for five years because of a serious personal issue, but while I was out I was able to go back to school part time and finish my degree. With the newly obtained degree, no one questioned the length of time I was out of the workforce.

    1. rubyrose*

      Whoa – don’t know what happened with the nesting! This is in response to whether to be totally honest about why there is a gap in work history, or just write if off as going back for education.

  189. CatCat*

    It’s not really a problem to get distracted and click around the internet when your work is getting done and you’re praised the the quality and speed of your work. I used to kind of worry about it too, but then I had a boss who said to me, “Enjoy the downtime because it’s counterbalanced by the busy times.” Which, where I work, is true. Sometimes we are just crazy busy and sometimes things are slow. I’ve learned to enjoy the distractions in the slow times :-)

    You can also talk to your bosses about taking on more responsibility, projects you’re interested in, and ideas for professional development. There may be options to build up your expertise when you have the capacity to do so!

  190. De Minimis*

    Anyone from Omaha? Has anyone ever moved there for work?

    What’s the job market like there? I’ve heard they really need workers, but I don’t know if that applies to all fields or just certain ones [like the service industry.] Do people applying from far out of state have a good shot a being hired?

    I started looking into possibly moving there earlier this week. I’ve applied to places that are super popular and fast growing, and I think I’m not being considered as much due to so many local candidates available. Omaha seems like a decent balance of a good-sized city that has a good job market with lots of employers, but doesn’t have insane cost of living and doesn’t seem to be known as a hipster destination. The weather will be a tough adjustment for me, but I’m super eager to find a new job [I’m an accountant but don’t have any for-profit experience…]

    Anyone have any insights?

    1. lots of regrets*

      I (unfortunately) live in Omaha. The saying to set the clock back 20 years is wrong. ..set it back 40. Everything from food to breweries to social norms is decades behind any othee city I’ve lived in. So, Christian conservative white straight males LOVE it here.

      Winter actually isn’t bad…it’s a solid zone 5 and the city is better than many about snow removal. Summers are brutally hot & humid and every month shatters previous records.

      Home purchase prices are low for a major city but insurance is through the roof because the assumption is that every roof will need to be replaced every 3 to 5 years due to hail damage. Ditto full auto coverage.

      Groceries are about double what I paid in both Portland & Olympia for identical items at the same chains. YMMV depending on where you’re coming from.

      Property taxes in Omaha itself aren’t bad, but because of that the schools aren’t great. Basically all of my coworkers with kids opt to live out someplace like Gretna. They pay 3-2 times what I do for property tax but it’s still cheaper than private!

      There are some really cool old neighborhoods like Old Market and Dundee. They aren’t so cheap lol If you are out west, it’s suburbs identical to every other suburb in the country.

      There are some great museums & the zoo is supposedly one of the best in the US.

      The one unequivocal positive I have for it is that it has some of the best medical facilities & doctors you will find in the US. They have amazing teaching hospitals here so cheap quality care for things like dental are readily available.

      That last is why we’re still here even though we both hate it with a passion (first-time that’s happened to either of us with a move). Spouse has a very difficult to manage mental illness & I have a pretty uncommon physical one.

      So, go in with eyes open, know yourself, and don’t trust to cost of living calculators!

      1. lots of regrets*

        Oh one other heads up if you do decide to move here…the location of the gang violence has really be shifting the last couple years. Be sure to pull up the last 6 months worth of crime data off of the Douglas County Sheriff’s page for any address you’re interested in. Don’t rely on just asking people…you’ll get an answer based on their perception from a decade ago. Most people react with some horror when I tell them where I live, but if you pull up the actual statistics there’s barely been the occasional misdemeanor around here for several years. Half my neighbors leave their back door unlocked! My coworker lives in what most people will tell you is a super snooty neighborhood if asked….except they have so many random shootings that he no longer lets his kids play outside after dark, and basically the entire neighborhood has bars on the windows and SERIOUS security systems. (Works for me! I got a serious bargain on this house because of it!)

        And you probably already know this, but be sure to pull the entire year’s utilities for any house you’re interested in. I knew I had gotten used to cheaper rates in the PNW, but I wasn’t expecting my monthly utilities to more than triple either! The climate extremes mean even a well-insulated house has a tendency to run through the power to heat/cool. Unlike most places, it doesn’t cool off at night here. Our ‘lows’ are the high 70s and will be the mid 80s soon!

        1. De Minimis*

          Thanks for the information!

          I’m still not sure about whether to pull the trigger and start applying for jobs there. You’ve given me a lot to consider. I’ve lived in [and am originally from] some super backward places and am not eager to go back to that type of mentality. And I got burned once before moving to a “cheaper” state that ended up not being that cheap at all….due to some of the things you describe—cost of insurance, utilities, and groceries, combined with a low-wage job market.

          1. Not All Who Wander*

            If you’re just looking for a place to kick-start your career for a few years and then move someplace more desirable once you’ve built a nest egg and established yourself professionally, there are definitely worse places to do it. If you skip buying a house (not an option for me because of the types of pets and amount of stuff I have) and just rent an apartment in one of the more interesting parts of town it won’t be as bad expenses-wise. And it’s not that there aren’t progressive pockets here and there…they are just harder to find than you would expect. If you are heat tolerant, it’s better.

            (Oh, and not sure where you would be moving from, but there are chiggers here. Read up on them if you don’t know what they are & move here….they are easy to prevent if you know about them but oh the misery if you find out the hard way…or are stupid and go see what your dog is looking at in the tall grass!)

            Omaha is technically a city, but really it’s a whole bunch if small midwest communities crammed together in one geographic space. On the bright side, there are two Costcos!

  191. A Reader*

    I had an interview earlier this week that left me feeling hopeful. I am trying to keep my imagination from getting away from me, but it is so hard! The projected timeline means a decision will be made possibly a week from now. I am, of course, taking this timeline with a BIG grain of salt.

    How do you try to stay focused (and possibly distract yourself) while waiting for an answer? FWIW, I am unemployed and have already channeled some of my energy into filling out more applications.

  192. CurrentlyAnonDev*

    Actively interviewing now, as I really understand my situation at hand. My boss wants me to complete an “easy” code project in a month and a half to successfully get off a PIP he placed me on because he feels I’m a low performer. It’s entirely doable… if I had six months to a year to complete it. The code base is going to be HUGE after I build out all of the functionality that he wants. And we are doing “sprints” that are just called that but aren’t. It’s basically impossible to do, and he’s planning to fire me when I fail. I’m doing the requirements, documentation, testing, and everything else with this project, even though I’ve never done project management and work breakdown, requirements gathering, or writing documentation from scratch before. Also, there’s no one to test this but me. This work is often done by four or more separate people. He doesn’t seem to care.

    This is mostly a gripe because I know I can’t do much to change his mind. I can tell that my workload is multitudes higher than typical at everywhere I’ve interviewed at, at least. Hoping to hear back from two places next weeks, and can’t wait to turn in my resignation letter. I’m going to start taking stuff home this weekend if he plans to terminate me early.

    1. ArtK*

      I’m really sorry. Did you post a week or so ago about this, or are there two people who are being set up to fail in the same way?

      In any case, you’re doing the right thing by looking to get out. Your boss has completely unreasonable expectations of you. Heck, I’m over 35 years into my career and that would be too much for me. (It is too much for me, since that’s close to my current situation, minus the PIP and firing threat.)

      1. CurrentlyAnonDev*

        That was me… I hope there’s not another person going through the same situation! It’s good to hear that I’m not crazy.. he’s gaslighting me like crazy about my abilities.

        Also I got turned down from one of the places I was interviewing at, but they gave me really detailed feedback on what I need to get better at. So somehow I’m gonna have to find time to learn JavaScript, Angular, Node.JS, and Python when I’ve got an extreme time crunch during this project. I guess I’m gonna have to suck it up and find time. :(

        (Also, I’m so sorry you’re going through the same thing! I hope you get out like I’m planning to do.)

        1. ArtK*

          Ouch. Sorry they didn’t have a place for you. I think you may be better off looking for jobs that match your current knowledge (Java? C++? VB?) than trying to learn a bunch of new technologies while under the gun. That said, if you’re familiar with Java, then Python shouldn’t too tough. Most of the differences are syntactic — the hardest thing, IMO, is dealing with the fact that there are no brackets and that indentation is significant. Very easy to make mistakes with that (one of the things I truly dislike about Python.)

          JavaScript is probably closest to Basic or Visual Basic, from my experience; the big difference is the presence of the HTML data model. I don’t work much in it, but have had to fix/modify a few programs. These ran in Node.JS, but I’m not familiar with what else that can do. There was some Angular in those programs but it didn’t really affect what I was doing.

          Good luck, and thanks for the good wishes!

          1. CurrentlyAnonDev*

            Yeah, I’m glad they did give me feedback. The HR coordinator actually called me, which was kinda hilarious given the recent AAM post about that. But I wasn’t upset and actually appreciated it, so I don’t know if it was her reading me right or just her style.

            I’m mainly Java and wish I could just start off with another job focused on that, but all the Java positions I’m finding are expecting Python, JavaScript, and JS Frameworks despite saying “Java” in the title. I don’t think I need too much mastery, just some exposure. It’s dumb.

            … also. I don’t know what’s worse: the lack of brackets or indentation being significant. Probably the latter. That just broke my brain. What. What were they thinking??

  193. Mona25*

    I just created a PITA folder in my Outlook! Why didn’t I do this sooner! PITA stands for “Pain In The Ass”. It is now where annoying coworker emails go to die since I can’t delete them, yet.

    2. Dr. Doll*

      I have a WTF folder. For ideas that people send me that really need to have that label.

  194. Joanne*

    Does anyone have any advice for recent grads or for those just entering the workforce? What do you wish you had known when first starting out, that kind of stuff?
    Also, what are acceptable business casual shoes for the summer if you work in government? So far, I’ve been going to work in boots but in DC humidity and weather, that isn’t always possible and it feels awkward if I go into the office wearing sandals because it’s government, and tends to run on the conservative side. I’m looking for shoes that have heels and aren’t boots or sandals. Any suggestions?

    1. Another Gov Person*

      In the office where I am, wearing sandals into work but keeping a pair of dressier shoes at your desk is common. Just change first thing and no one will mind. Alternately, I have seen many people in Dansko sandals/shoes like the Sam, Stevie, and Larissa and these seem to be considered professional enough (my asst administrator wears them, for example).

    2. Need me some supplies*

      In DC, the footwear of the professional woman in the summer is flip flops or ballet flats, changing into real shoes when getting to the office. (Flip flops ALSO get a lot of deserved criticism because, well, they’re flip flops.) Alternatively, Clarks can be a good choice.

    3. nym*

      I’m in federal government in Georgia – women wear dressy sandals all summer here. My advice is that if you would like to wear sandals, spend some time checking out your coworkers’ feet (discreetly!!!) and see if sandals are A Thing That Is Done. Also, consider asking for advice from a trusted and more experienced coworker.

      It took me years to get over feeling weird wearing sleeveless tops/dresses in the summer because a) my mother always told me it was inappropriate to not wear sleeves and b) I have a tattoo on my shoulder that’s about 3 inches wide, which is covered by sleeves.

      For context, women in my agency wear sleeveless tops all the time, and visible tattoos are fairly common on wrists and ankles. I finally asked a couple of mentors and my boss directly whether it would be okay to wear sleeveless stuff, and showed them the tattoo. Assured that it was absolutely fine, it still took me another year to take the plunge, and a year after that before I felt comfortable in sleeveless clothing, but I’m finally over it!

      Last week someone I’ve known for almost a decade stopped me in the hallway and asked me if the tattoo was new. No, I’ve had it for 20 years… Lesson: stuff that I’m really self-conscious about and think is extremely noticeable, others never noticed, even in the conservative environment of government. Therefore I don’t need to stress so hard.

      1. Joanne*

        That’s good advice and something I wouldn’t have attempted since I’m still fairly new, and the only other contractor I’ve talked to is out on maternity leave. What types of shoes/dressy sandals would you suggest?

  195. Am I Screwed?*

    I received a job offer contingent on the results of my background check. For the position, I submitted a resume/cover letter & did NOT fill out an application. What will check out without issues: Credit, criminal, driving record. I am concerned about employment going 10 years back (this is a very detailed background check; field is not government-related).

    On my resume, I omitted a job from 2016 that only lasted 3 months. I was still within the probationary period, decided the position wasn’t a good fit for me & gave notice immediately in an at-will state. This company was a toxic churner to the point that 2 people who started after me quit before me (immediately as well). I immediately went back to my previous employer in my old role & have been back with my company for two years now (I was with this company for 3 years before I left). My hire date in our system specifically states my original hire date, but the rehire date is still noted in my records.

    On my resume (not an application), I listed my current position minus the 3 month separation so it looks continuous. Am I screwed? I have NOT submitted my background check info yet which includes a formal application. I am going to be honest about this & will list the 3 month position – I certainly am not expecting that company to have anything positive to say should they be contacted. Obviously, I don’t want my current employer contacted but am concerned that I will be viewed as a former employee subject to being contacted since I left & rejoined them. I didn’t list the short stint on my resume because I also had a past short stint that lasted 4 months where I was let go (nothing criminal/no reason given/received uncontested unemployment) – I DID list that position on my resume to avoid a big gap between jobs, & that position was never brought up during any of my interviews.

    Am I screwed? The field of my current position is the same as the potential job & my current experience was key to me being offered this new position (the 2 short stints are not). I also had another job that lasted 4.5 years in a similar field that the potential company was impressed with (left that company in good standing).

    1. That would be a good band name*

      I think you’ll probably be fine. Generally for the background portion, it’s less reference checking and more fact checking – did you actually work where you said you worked. They will most likely ask whether or not you are eligible for rehire and your potential employer *might* ask you about it. I did have that happen once when a convenience store job that barely fell within the window said I wasn’t eligible for rehire, but I still got the job they wanted to find out more details.

    2. Not All Who Wander*

      For federal, the hiring official doesn’t even SEE your background info…all we get is a report back saying you passed/failed. They really are just looking for things like criminal history, drug use, fraud, are you who you say you are, etc.

      1. Am I Screwed?*

        Thanks! The check went through fine & no one said anything about the job I didn’t list or the short stint.

  196. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

    Here’s an update for your Friday afternoon: I wrote in two weeks ago about a pretty long and intense interview process I was going through. In short, it was: a phone interview, in-person interview, very intensive reference calls, and then a final phone interview that had just been scheduled. At the time of my writing two weeks ago, I was thoroughly confused but somewhat optimistic that I might still be in the running for the job.

    Then, the final phone interview happened last Monday. The manager asked a few questions I was prepared for, and then dropped the bombshell that my former manager, whom I’d listed as a reference, indicated that I’d had a “messy departure” from her organization and left a bunch of things undone. I. Was. Floored. I couldn’t believe she’d tried to torpedo me like that; first of all, what she said was fundamentally untrue, and secondly, if she felt that way she should have declined to be a reference when I asked her! I did my best to explain what happened, but I was sure I’d lost out on the opportunity. It didn’t help that the manager told me over the phone that all three final candidates were still in the running, and how it was a very strong field of candidates. He told me they expected to make their decision by the end of the week.

    Flash forward to last Friday. I hadn’t actually been nervous all week because I figured I was out of the running, so at best I expected an email on Friday, or maybe early the next week, saying thanks but no thanks. Instead, I got an email Friday morning asking to set up a time to “speak briefly”. ‘Ok,’ I thought, ‘surely he’s just calling to tell me I didn’t get it. That’s very conscientious, but I wish he’d just send an email.’

    We set up a time to speak, which happened to be on my drive home from a business trip. I pulled over at the prearranged time, and waited…and waited…. then about 5-10 minutes past our time, he texted me to say he was waiting on additional information and would call me soon. I started to wonder, and to hope….unless he was polling the team to compile all the reasons everyone hated me, I couldn’t imagine what information he needed before making a rejection call.

    Long story short: I got the job! I was (and still am) in total shock. It’s exactly what I want to be doing, in the place I want to settle down, and with a 60% raise and excellent benefits. I can’t believe after all I went through, all the indications I wasn’t good enough, I got the job in the end. So let this be a lesson to never give up!

    4. Buu*

      Wow your Old manager sounds like a jerk, perhaps your new job was impressed about how you handled it? They could have taken your reference at their word and dropped you. Instead they took the time to talk to you and it sounds like they liked what they heard.If you have any close friends at your old job you might want to quietly warn them not to use that manager as a reference.

      Congratulations on your new job, enjoy your raise and your sweet victory.

  197. GottaMakeIt*

    Any advice for a person who can’t start looking for a new job but their current work situation is demoralizing?

    My boss is basically a micromanager (but not very good at it) and I’m doing more of the tasks the job description claimed were minimal and less of the tasks that the description claimed were priorities. A large portion of the duties have been claimed by my boss while I’m left to do very, very low-level work.

    I am incredibly bored and frustrated but I have no leverage, leaving is not an option for me. Is there any way to make it suck less until I can start my job search in December?

    1. Anna Held*

      Six months! Things are far more manageable when there’s a firm end date. Concentrate on the end date.

      Brush up your resume and start casually looking for new positions now, or at least September. Practice your interview questions, write some stock passages for your job letter, all the prep work you’ll need to land a new job. The hiring process can be a long one, and December means holidays. No point in letting a great job pass you by because it’s posted early November — the start date may well be December.

      Concentrate on finding fulfillment outside of your job. If it’s a volunteer role or hobby that gains you a new skill or contacts, even better.

      At work, there’s not much to be done. I assume you’ve spoken to your boss and told her that the work isn’t matching the job description? Have to try. Otherwise, take initiative where you can, like creating process documents or teaching yourself excel. At least take pride in doing what you do well. It’ll be over soon!

      And if I may ask, why December? If you’re worried about job-hopping, that’s only a problem if you’re not getting hired. If you’re sending out applications and getting interviews, then clearly no one else is worried about it!

    2. Friday afternoon fever*

      Ooh yep, I’ve been there, poor micromanagement and all. Keep your head down, perform well, but (demoralizing as this sounds….sorry…) try not to care about getting fulfillment or satisfaction out of this job. Not your circus, not your monkeys. Do the parts of your job your manager allows you to; absolve yourself of worrying about everything else.

      If you can do a nice, escapist thing during your lunch break like go read outside or get some coffee or tea—treat yourself to an inexpensive distraction if it helps you get through the day.

      If able, exercise, my god, exercise was a stress relief blessing (and I actually hate exercise!)

      And (from personal experience) be mindful of the ways you might be coping that are less healthy.

  198. Serious Pillowfight*

    Still waiting to hear about a job I interviewed with at the end of May. Friend who works there said she waited about a month to hear back. Trying not to bug her or my other friend about whether they’ve heard anything, and they haven’t said anything which I’m trying not to see as a bad sign. Figure the hiring committee wouldn’t want to be super open with them knowing it would probably get back to me. Trying to follow Alison’s advice to move on mentally and let it be a pleasant surprise if I do hear back. There aren’t really any other jobs within reasonable commuting distance (for me) that I qualify for or want to do at the moment.

    I’m sitting in a stew of resentment at my current job. Things aren’t getting better and they aren’t getting worse. Male coworker who makes more than I do put out some sloppy product the last couple days and I just had to grit my teeth and fix it. CEO sent out meeting notes praising the output of the department I used to work for and the woman who replaced me there, the same place and job that department head claimed meant I wasn’t worth as much as male coworker. I want to shove the report in his face and say, “REALLY?? My experience there doesn’t matter???”

    All I know is I’m 35 and still have a salary in the $30k’s. Others with my education (less than, actually) have moved on from our company to make salaries in the $60s and $70s. I know it’s all relative, and I shouldn’t complain, and I should be grateful to have a job in my field, and I am…but I’m questioning my entire field. Why didn’t I go into IT or finance or something more lucrative? I’ll be in my 50s by the time I pay off all my debt and probably can never retire. My husband makes even less than I do.

    Sorry to be so negative. I stupidly went off my antidepressant and it caught up with me. I think my doc weaned me off too fast, but regardless, the depression is back in full force, so I’m going back on my meds. I went from feeling like things would turn around and I could handle it to feeling like nothing would ever get better. I just feel like I need to make some changes but I’m not sure what to do. I’m tired of being the lowest paid person in my area, and for no good reason. I’m not 22 and fresh out of college. Why does my company see me as a bargain?

    End rant.

    1. GottaMakeIt*

      I’m sorry you’re dealing with all these negative feelings and situations right now. I, too, have stopped taking an anti-depressant in the fairly recent past. I did a pretty slow taper and I still was reeling from the side effects of weaning myself off of it. Not pleasant. I’ve heard, too, that you’re only really supposed to start coming off them when you’re stable (no big emotional upsets recently or upcoming, low stress, etc.) so going back on it until you figure things out isn’t a bad idea.

      I don’t have any great advice but I just wanted to let you know that your situation sounds stressful and I sympathize!

      I used a self-help book a few months ago to help me figure out what I really wanted out of work and it helped me think about how work intersects with my life in new ways. It’s called “Designing Your Life” in case you think it might be interesting to you.

      1. Serious Pillowfight*

        Thank you! I’m actually a big fan of self-help and have been looking for something new for Kindle. I’ll check it out!

    2. CBE*

      Who says you “shouldn’t complain?”
      Because they are (BLEEP)
      If this kind of salary sexism is rampant in your company/field, you have every right to complain, every right to speak up and advocate for better, and every right to a competitive salary!
      This is a real problem you’re facing, one worth speaking up about. (Even if (BLEEP) calls it “complaining”)

      1. Serious Pillowfight*

        Thank you. My company is supposedly super broke. My boss went to bat for me but nothing changed. I feel supported by everyone except the person with the purse strings.

  199. Alienor*

    I’m currently being pressured to fill in a profile in the company HR system that identifies my goals and areas of interest for development purposes. The problem is, my current boss has a habit of seizing on anything I mention, declaring that it’s my “passion,” and permanently associating me with it. A few months ago, under pressure to identify an interest, I offered up something that’s not currently part of my job, but could be (e.g., I’m a llama groomer and I said I was interested in how llama nutrition affects the coat), and since then he keeps talking about how I love llama nutrition and want to specialize in it, and it’s what fires me up and makes me excited to get out of bed in the morning. Well, I’m mildly interested in llama nutrition and think it could add to what I do, but I don’t LOVE it and want to make it the focus of my life and talk about it all the time, either. So now I’m afraid to name anything in this profile for fear that I’ll become “Alienor, who loves X,” but I’m required to do it and Boss and HR will both hassle me until I do. The truth is that nothing about work fires me up, and the only thing that makes me excited to get out of bed is the thought of stopping at Starbucks on my way to the office, but saying that isn’t exactly an option. How do I handle that?

    1. LDP*

      Could you just list things that are currently part of your job description? Even if it’s not your passion, at least your boss would just be having you do things that you already have to do anyway?

      1. Alienor*

        That would be my ideal choice, but it’s supposed to be about career growth/training/where you want to go next. :(

        1. Khlovia*

          You know what? I think they’re doing you a favor. I mean, I realize it would have to be annoying AF (the “passion” talk sounds like a nine-year-old on a playground: “Alienor’s got a boyyyyyfriend! Neener neener neener!” [or girrllllfriend, as pertinent]). Tell ’em you’ve always dreamed of colonizing Mars, just to shut them up; and then go into deep consultation with yourself and try to really answer the question. Not for them, for you.

  200. Oh no!*

    Over the past few weeks, I’ve been interviewing for a job. I was also starting to house hunt. This week, I unexpectedly found a house, and formally got the job!

    But this has created a problem. The job would like me to start at the end of June or in early July. Our mortgage brokers say I can’t give notice at my current job until early July.

    Right now it looks like the only way to take the new job and get the house is to give my current job zero days notice, which I would feel pretty bad about. Can I warn them without technically giving notice? Should I just stop feeling bad about it? How would one go about that? Please send help.

    1. AnonGD*

      How are your mortgage brokers going to know if you give your boss notice or not? Especially if you tell your boss and explain it needs to be a secret? Isn’t continuous employment the most important thing here, really? From the mortgage broker perspective, anyway.

      I’m not a homeowner, so I’m far from an expert it just seems silly considering you’re going to go seamlessly from one job to the other here.

      1. Oh no!*

        The mortgage brokers wouldn’t know whether I give notice or not unless I tell them, but the underwriters for the home loan will call my employer to verify my employment. I guess if my employer says that yes, I work there, but I’ve given notice, then the bank could/would decide not to lend to us, even though I’ll have a signed offer for my next role.

        1. That would be a good band name*

          We *just* went through this, but it was our buyers that had a job change (we sold our home). It definitely messed up everything with the bank they were working with. They are going to call and ask not only if you work there, but if you are likely to continue to be employed. If you have given notice, your employer will tell them and they won’t go through with your mortgage. Our buyers were able to switch lenders as they found a credit union that was willing to work with them and it only ended up delaying our closing by 30 days. It would be a pain for you to switch lenders or to have to delay your closing, but it might be better to have a talk with your mortgage company and find out the actual consequences *if* you change jobs. It’s possible that they do have a way to work with it, but they still give the advice of don’t switch jobs because that’s easier.

          1. Oh no!*

            A 30 day delay sounds huge!

            I’ll definitely follow up with the mortgage brokers. Last thing they said was that I couldn’t leave my job, but maybe they’ll have more info by Monday.

    2. CatCat*

      Can you explain the situation to New Job and ask if a mid-July start date would be feasible?

      1. Oh no!*

        I’m hoping to! Waiting for a call back today to finalize. Although I’m already asking to go from late June to early/mid July, so I really don’t want to ask for an additional two weeks to give notice, or that would be a full month later than they wanted.

        1. Friday afternoon fever*

          Unless there are special circumstances around the new job (high priority project or event immediately, etc), two weeks is not that long in the grand scheme of hiring—I would definitely see if they can move your start date. This is a totally reasonable request for a situation outside of your control, and in my experience employers will appreciate that you’re trying to do right by the company you’re leaving, since it shows that if you ever left them you’d probably extend the same courtesy.

          That said, if you can’t wrangle a new start date….. sh$t happens

    3. Ladylike*

      I would probably spend my last 2 weeks getting my work as organized as possible, instructions written for all tasks, etc., and then just give less notice at the current job. It stinks, but this is one of a once-in-a-lifetime thing that’s kind of out of your control.

      1. Oh no!*

        I think this is my current plan, and I still feel pretty bad about it. But it does help to remind myself that I didn’t plan it out this way and can’t really control it.

  201. Anon. E. Moose*

    So probably too late, but I have worked for 17 years as staff in a large research university which has many rules, with many departments breaking them and others that are rule bound. I am about to get a big promotion. We are the kind of institution that doesn’t have promotion tracks for staff, so they have to create a position and post it ‘Strong candidate identified’ This is fine.

    The thing that is bothering me is that I am told that no matter how many pay grades I jump (I would be jumping three) current employees can never have more than a 10% raise (even if it is below the pay range for that position). Again, somewhat annoying as I personally have received larger than 10% raises in other parts of the large university, but I can live with it.
    But, my state has decided that in September everyone who is making under 46,300 will be classified as non-exempt. My department defines non-exempt as hourly, must punch the clock and work in the physical building, little to no flexibility in time. My new salary withe the 10% raise will $542 below that threshold, and they are just adamant that salaries cannot be adjusted to make someone exempt. Am I right to be irritated? They frame it as following the rules that the state has set up and explaining that it isn’t fair if I get more than a 10% raise, but I feel like I should at least make the minimum of the pay grade I am in!

    1. EB*

      Not sure I was “right” but at the end of Obama’s tenure when they were going to change the rules and make anything under ~$47k nonexempt my large public university had a thinly-veiled panic attack. I was excited because I assumed it would mean a larger-than-average raise so that I would meet the new standard considering how much overtime I am expected to work.

      Well, the law fell through, my university breathed a sigh of relief, and then my next raise was $500 under what would have been the new regulation. I was feeling REALLY salty about that one.

      As an aside, I’m trying to learn to live with ridiculous university rules that are just arbitrarily broken for random “rising stars” and then you inadvertently get punished for being a long-time employee because they assume you won’t leave. I’m only five years in at my university but I’m considering jumping ship for the private sector– not sure I’ll actually do it but I’m excited to explore my options.

      1. Anon. E. Moose*

        I am actually hoping this position would open up a way for me to leave at a higher level, so I am going to take it regardless. I have been in the same position for over 10 years with more, and more and more responsibility and no real compensation, but the title has “admin” in it, so I really want to move to a different title before considering leaving.

        1. Anon. E. Moose*

          Also, freedom to come and go as needed and to not be strict about clocking in and clocking out is the best thing about my job. I would literally pay them $542 to pay me just to get me to the threshold.

  202. Peli-can but Peli-won't*

    Hi, everyone! I recently went to an interview that I think went very well. On Monday, I was called by the company who left a voicemail for me to call back. I have a feeling it’s to let me know that I got the job, though I suppose it could also be to let me know that I didn’t, so I’m keeping an open mind. The issue is that I have tried to call back every day this week to return the manager’s call, and they haven’t answered (they did call me back once, but I was unable to answer the phone at that moment. I called back five minutes later and no answer again).

    I know that places and managers get very busy, but what strikes me as odd is this is a customer-oriented business and the number I’m using is the same one customers are given, too. I’ve checked out reviews of the company and one of the most frequent complaints is that they don’t answer calls and that customer service is sometimes lacking. My question: Is this the kind of company I would want to work for? Is not being able to get in touch with them a very bad sign for the future? I’m sort of just staring out on an actual career, so I’m not sure how worried to be or how much I should read into this. I would love to hear some input about this. Please pardon me if I don’t answer you – I will read every comment, but I’m working my other job tonight so I can’t keep checking in.

    1. OtterB*

      Well, if they’re hiring because they need additional staff to be able to support everything, that’s one thing. If this is their normal operation, it’s another.

    2. miyeritari*

      Some companies (mine included) have a phone number customers can call because they want that to use that channel, but the company doesn’t want them to skip the customer service queue by answering immediately. So any emails that were sent before that phone call are answered, and then the phone call gets a return call.

    3. SpaceNovice*

      Ask over email if you two can schedule a time for the call. Phone tag happens, but if you’re both really busy, this would be the best bet!

  203. Confused anon*

    I was told that I would be System Admin for a new program at work, but now the main boss is saying that he “doesn’t know” who will be it. My boss said it would be me, but now main boss isn’t sure. I’m involved with it either way, but there is a difference now whether I’m just using it or helping set it up. My boss said that if I show main boss that I’m interested, he might consider. I don’t know what to do… Any thoughts?

    1. Tangerina*

      Depends on if you’re interested or not.

      If you are… show big boss you’re interested! How you do that depends on the culture. Best bet would be to drop a 30 minute meeting request into his calendar for a chat, in most environments.

    2. SpaceNovice*

      Also, forgot to add literally as I sent that: see if there’s any online communities where you can ask questions! Even niche communities have some.

  204. Karen*

    I am looking into getting into a niche career path that’s similar to the work I do now. I want to reach out and contact people who work in this area with a few basic questions before I make the transition (things like “what do you wish you’d known before starting”, etc.). I realize I may be overthinking this, but is it better to a) Contact them, introduce myself and ask if they’d mind if I asked them a few questions or b) Same as a, but just include the questions in the email, too. The career path is such that these people wouldn’t be working in the same area as me, so meeting over coffee isn’t really an option.

    1. SpaceNovice*

      I’d say introduce yourself first and then if they’re responsive, ask the questions. Develop a bit of a relationship first, even if it’s only one email or two. Otherwise, the starter email is going to be pretty big and no one will answer.

  205. Knopetopus*

    Hey y’all! After a year of being a stay-at-home mom, I’m going back to my old job part-time and working from home. (It’s a dream come true!) For people who have worked remotely, do you have any pointers/advice/pitfalls to avoid? Thanks and hope everyone has a great weekend!

    1. Guitar Hero*

      I work from home a few days a week, and it’s important for me to do a few things:

      Try to maintain your normal morning routine. You don’t have to put on work clothes obviously, but at least change out of pajamas and do whatever else you need to do to feel ready for the day.

      Take regular breaks! Without the distraction of coworker chat, impromptu meetings, etc, it’s really easy to not get up from your desk for hours at a time. I also function better now that I have a designated work space rather than setting up shop at the kitchen table or on the couch. I can get up, walk away, and take those mental and physical breaks during the day.

  206. Anon with mono*

    I might be too late to the party today, but I’m wondering if anyone has dealt with mono as a professional adult? I was just diagnosed and I’ve never felt sick like this before. It’s truly awful. Also I’m embarrassed because of the incorrect stereotypes with this illness.

    Any advice is super welcome.

    P.S. if you know anyone that has this, be so super kind to them. It is one of the worst things I’ve experienced.

    2. Ladylike*

      My only advice is to strip the commitments in your personal life down to the bare minimum, so you can use all your free time to rest and recover. Say NO clearly and often!! And let people help you at work if they offer. Don’t put a bunch of pressure on yourself to be a superstar right now. Just do the minimum – it’s only temporary. I had a stress-induced health crisis earlier this year, and I learned that taking care of myself is a MUST, not something I can put on the back burner ever again.

    3. SpaceNovice*

      I had mono as an adult. It’s the absolute worst. What Ladylike said: don’t overtax yourself. Be careful to rest up. Eat well. Watch a lot of Netflix. You should definitely still try to get some mild exercise like walking but definitely get a good night’s sleep if you can.

      Also, keep an eye on your thyroid. Mono in adulthood can actually cause hypothyroidism. There’s a good chance that it won’t! But it’s something to watch if you stay tired for far too long. (Also, try to not get too cold. It’ll tax your body with the effort to stay warm.)

    4. Bobstinacy*

      I had mono last year at 31 and it was awful, I had a fever for weeks and tried to work through it which ended up tanking my health completely. Somehow the virus caused my gallbladder to swell and a decline in my liver function. I ended up being out of work for almost four months.

      Unfortunately there’s not much you can do besides rest and wait it out. I had some judgy people because they think of mono as being a not serious illness so I started saying I was recovering from a viral infection – true, and has a more serious vibe.

      Good luck, I hope you recover as swiftly as possible!

  207. KnewManager*

    Does anyone know the best way to deal with a employee who constantly interrupts others? Do you address it (repeatedly) whenever it occurs, even if it’s in front of other employees or departments?

    1. KnewManager*

      This has been brought up in reviews and a few one-on-one conversations…. but it seems to be a habit/style they can’t shake.

      1. Theodoric of York*

        If you have tried to spare their feelings by addressing it in private, and it doesn’t work, you mustn’t be afraid to embarrass them in public with a comment, like, “Please don’t interrupt so-and-so, he might have something useful to say,” and let the awkwardness sit there. The rest of your staff will love you for it.

    2. Ladylike*

      ARGHHH!! I have a coworker who does this constantly. I’ve noticed she seems to have a need to prove herself to be “in the know” by rushing to answer a question before the person asked can formulate their words. Unfortunately, she usually doesn’t actually know the answer and just ends up blurting out words she thinks are relevant. It’s really annoying and distracting.

      What I usually do is completely ignore the interruption and carry on with the initial conversation as if I didn’t even hear her. It’s hard and requires a lot of focus, but I see it as a silent message that her interruption was inappropriate and won’t be acknowledged. If it was egregious enough, though, I would raise my hand and gently say, “Susie, I’m sorry, I really need to hear Bob’s answer. Bob, can you repeat that?”

    3. Viola E.*

      My husband dealt with This Guy yesterday! Guy has a habit of cutting people off to assume/continue asking his question; yesterday, on a conference call with a couple of other people present, Todd (husband) cut Guy off with a very firm “Well, if you’d let me finish, [explanation/answer to the question].” It worked surprisingly well! Not enough time has passed to see whether he’ll still interrupt, but addressing it in the moment — in front of others — definitely helped.

    4. whistle*

      Assuming you are their manager, I think you first need to have a one-on-one chat about the issue. Then you can address it when it occurs even if it’s in front of other people

    5. froodle*

      I am on a team with a couple of people like this. It’s super demoralizing to be continuously interrupted and talked over in the workplace, especially when you’re trying to answer a question and being drowned out by a loud mouthed know-nothing. Please, please address it in the moment. It would do so much to make me feel like a valued member of the team of my supervisor would actually do something about it.

  208. Matilda*

    I work in London (UK) for a small non-profit foundation, 14 people, but expanding. My manager has worked there for 6 years, I am also a manager. This is my first paid job in this sector after a career change. I’ve been there a year and one month. I received my contract on Monday. You read that right: I got my contract a year after I started. Because my manager forgot to give it to me. All I got was an offer letter that set out my salary and hours. I did wonder if there should be more, as in my previous industry contracts were given with the offer letter. I didn’t ask too many questions that I ought to have, I simply assumed that being the not-for-profit sector and so small an organisation that they don’t give more than an offer letter. The offer letter was signed by myself and is binding on its own. However the contract states T&Cs I had to discover on my own like how many days leave I can transfer from own financial year to the next. It also sets out disciplinary procedures that I was unaware of. I am very very annoyed to say the least. I also only now was told that there is an employee handbook and found out in February this year that there is also a WhatsApp group. I’ve been unhappy for some time and was thinking of looking elsewhere (amongst others the job is not what I thought and my skills are unused) but this is the final straw. Would you be annoyed as well? I feel unvalued, like I don’t matter. How can you forget about my contract…you can remember the offer letter.

    1. SpaceNovice*

      … Yeah, that’s the sign of a disorganized group. On-boarding is something that shouldn’t be overlooked. It’s usually a sign of other issues in an organization. I’d say look elsewhere!

  209. SciDiver*

    TLDR: I went on a business trip for a company I was about to start a job with and now they are refusing to reimburse me for most of my expenses.

    I started a job in March at a new organization, and about a month before my start date, my supervisor contacted me about going on a(n international) business trip with people from the organization and other external collaborators the week before my official start. Someone else was supposed to go but couldn’t make it, they had money set aside to send another person and it would be a great way for me to get a feel for the work I’d be doing on this project. We were warned in advance that non-employees need to keep itemized receipts, but I had signed my offer letter a month and a half before the trip so I figured I’d be covered. We get back and I find out that even though my start date was just days after my return from the trip, the organization is refusing to treat me as and employee and requiring itemized receipts I don’t have. I tried contacting the businesses I had receipts for to get detailed copies, but never got a response. Long and short of it is they will only cover my transportation cost with the receipt. After some back and forth with the office, my supervisor told me it’s a lost cause. I’m going to try talking to our admin one more time to see if they’ll make an exception in this case but I doubt they’ll budge. If I was to be treated as an employee, they would reimburse all the expenses I submitted without itemized copies. I get the rationale behind the policy, but it’s making me feel like I’m being nickled and dimed for going on this trip (for work purposes!). Not looking for advice, just a frustrated vent.

    1. Rey*

      I know this isn’t ideal, but will they agree to even a partial reimbursement? They know that you went on the trip, so reasonably, they must be aware that you would have basic charges (food, hotel, transportation, etc.) It sounds like it’s their treatment of your case as a “non-employee” that is causing problems. Are the other “non-employees” who went on this trip similar to you (individuals who had signed offer letters but had not officially reached the start date)? Or were the other “non-employees” more like contractors? Is there any way to make the case that your status as a non-employee was unclear at the time of travel? This is a terrible way for them to treat you!

      1. SciDiver*

        The silver lining to all this is my supervisor arranged a good amount of this ahead of time and booked transportation and lodging for everyone so at least I’m not out that much–at this point it’s just food for the week we were traveling. All the other non-employees work for partner organizations, so their status is actually much clearer as non-employees, which puts me in a category between the two. I did clarify with my manager that of course I would have gotten the correct documentation if I had known, but that didn’t seem to do anything. My last step is making sure the people signing off on the reimbursement checks actually understand what went down. So far all the people in my department have come back saying their hands are tied and this is just the policy, but I’m really hoping someone making the final decision has the power to make exceptions. Beyond that, I’ll just have to eat the cost and be happy the trip was successful.

  210. Nisie*

    I had an interview this week, working to place employees in a nursing home. Nothing like trying to interview while a group of elderly sing “What a friend we have in Jesus” and “Shall we gather at the river?”

    The rest of it was too far from my current job for my taste. I was very qualified, but it’s not the right position for me.

    Thankfully, on the way out, I accepted a better match for me.

  211. beanie beans*

    Well… I got a verbal job offer! The number of applications, phone screens, interviews, resume tailoring that I’ve had over the past year and a half are a bit mind boggling, but I feel so fortunate to have held out for this one!

    I know this sounds cheesy, but Alison, thank you for this blog! Your advice on resumes, cover letters, interviews, and what a healthy work environment should look like are 100% part of the reason I am getting this job.

    And thank you AAM community for getting me through a dysfunctional couple of years at my current job. :)

    1. nep*

      Cheese-away. This site is a gold mine, indeed.
      Congratulations! Happy for you. All the best in the new job.

  212. Frustrated Pie-maker*

    Is there a fine line between “pro-actively following up” and being a “nagging colleague”?

    Here’s an example:
    A customer wants cream pies every Monday. Before I can supply cream pies, I need pie pans from another colleague. The colleague doesn’t work at the same department but the position is considered higher up than mine. The colleague has agreed to supply the pie pans no later than Friday noon so I can deliver the pies to the customer by Monday. Here’s the thing, some weeks I will get the pie pans on time, some weeks I will not get the pie pans until after 4:00 on Friday or none at all. No pie pans means no pies which means angry customer. And I am the one who has to deal with the understandably irate customer. Since the colleague already knows the deadline, is it ok to send a weekly email reminder that I need them or will that be just make me sound like a broken record?

    1. OlympiasEpiriot*

      Send the reminder.

      Who gaf if they’re annoyed.

      If you are really worried, run it by your manager about the problem and ask them how it can be handled.

      1. Tangerina*

        Yeah, I’d definitely be giving my boss at least a heads up. Lack of pies should not be reflecting poorly on you.

    2. beanie beans*

      You could put it on them – “Mr. Pie Pan Man, we have agreed that I need the pie pans by noon on Friday in order to keep our customers happy, but there have been many times lately where I haven’t gotten them by the time we agreed on. What would be the best way to make sure I get the pie pans by noon on Friday every week? Would you prefer an email reminder Thursday? Or a check-in Friday morning?”

    3. Nacho*

      I deal with the same thing in my job. 2 days after asking, send a follow up email to colleague with something like

      “hi [colleague]

      Just making sure you saw this. Is there anything else you need from me to deliver the pie tins?”

    4. Delta Delta*

      For what it’s worth, I also would like cream pies on mondays. Coconut, banana, chocolate, strawberry – your choice. I’m not picky but I do enjoy a good pie.

  213. Tangerina*

    Oh office drama. My coworker just left for her last day, so (with manager approval) I moved my whole setup to her desk from my temporary space that I’ve had to deal with since I started. Temporary space is a desk I’ve been sharing with Glenda.

    Just as I finished, Glenda had me me move my whole setup back because she wants the desk for herself (it’s a pretty prime spot so I don’t blame her for wanting it). I’m incredibly bummed, it was one of the only good things about my work week, but what are you going to do? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    I know it’s catty, but when people ask me what the heck happened (since everyone has known that I was taking over Prime Spot), I say that “we” agreed it was for the best since the desk we have been sharing is situated in a loud place that makes it pretty difficult to hear; Glenda is quite a bit older, so my young ears are better able to deal with the noise.

      1. Tangerina*

        I feel even worse for the people who thought they were getting me as a neighbor and got her instead. She’s a little…. difficult to work with.

    2. Teapot librarian*

      I know that it will stink if you have to move your things again, but I’m looking forward to your manager coming in on Monday morning and asking Glenda why she is at your new desk, and making her move back.

      1. Tangerina*

        That would be glorious, but my manager is remote and Glenda out ranks her, too. At least my manager is miffed on my behalf. That made me feel a bit better.

        Plus my grandboss saw that I moved without putting up a fuss, so I may have scored a small point there. Or I proved I’m a doormat. Only time will tell!

    3. I Have Been To Paradox But I Have Never Been To Me*

      You say you got your manager’s approval to move into the new spot.
      What authority does Glenda have to make you move back?
      If you really want the new space, have you spoken to your manager about it? Even if you’re willing to stay at the old spot, you should report this anyway, because – again – she shouldn’t just be able to make you switch back to your old spot on her say-so.

      1. Gatomon*

        +1

        I feel like Glenda’s ship sailed some time ago. If you already got approval and moved your things, it’s too late. I don’t think time in service should matter after the decision was made. If Glenda had asked earlier, maybe that’s a good reason to give the spot to her and not you. But it’s not fair to you to reverse the decision after you’d already moved your things.

  214. TGIF Day*

    Writers and Marketing/Content people
    I do a lot of marketing writing and design for companies. This includes varied things such as web content, social posts, blogs, brochures, articles, press releases, executive letters, corporate speeches, and articles distilling complex scientific research into something appropriate for public consumption. Rarely does one’s name go on this work as author, because it’s not journalism and you’re doing “work for hire” the company owns and you’re part of the company. You only claim on your portfolio.
    Today I had a researcher insist I put my name on an article as the author because they didn’t want credit for something they didn’t write (they did review and made some minor edits). I have never had this happen before (often it’s the opposite case). What’s the norm? Do I put them as co-author? Should there even be an author? I fear it will be frowned upon if I list myself as author, because I’m not a scientist or expert in this research.

    1. H.C.*

      I’ve done a fair amount of this type of writing too, typically I do get a byline for blog posts & news articles (or any publication where byline is common). But it really is up to the norms and style set by your org (& your boss).

      The researcher wouldn’t get byline credit since they didn’t write it; they may get a “reviewed by” credit if it warrants like (like WebMD articles).

  215. Viola E.*

    I’m very late to the thread, but I have to share today’s work drama…

    Our internet-security guy has a routine: every couple of weeks, on a Tuesday, he’ll send out a “warning” email with the latest phishing/social engineering scam. Three days later, like clockwork, we all get a suspicious-looking email in our inboxes. If we report said email as spam, we get a little “Congratulations!” message.

    This week’s… oh my.

    Tuesday’s warning was about how scammers will use dramatic/tragic current events to get people to click on links. Parkland and Anthony Bourdain were mentioned. You get the idea. But today, the test email came out: A surprisingly real-looking BREAKING NEWS email from “NBC,” with the giant headline: ACTIVE SHOOTER AT [PRENTISSTOWN SHOPPING MALL].

    People, understandably, freaked out. Not only is the email in incredibly poor taste, but at least one person called the police because they had a family member who happened to be at [Prentisstown Mall] that day. We’re a pretty big company… I doubt this person was the only one.

    Anyway, someone higher up on the food chain just sent an email to the whole company, letting everyone know that the email was a fake. Several hours later. Which is not that helpful. And now all traces of the email are GONE, from both inboxes and trash folders.

    This is really weird, right? Like, I knew it was fake, but my heart still stopped for a second when I saw it. Has anyone else had an experience like this?

    1. ArtK*

      This is in the same direction as the companies that do “active shooter” drills but don’t warn anyone, so when the masked actors burst in, there’s widespread panic. I’m sure the IT person pulled the e-mail but I hope that they got royally fried for this. If I were the boss, “poor judgment” would be on their next review.

      1. Viola E.*

        Yes! I think in his mind, people were warned, but he has to know by now that not everybody reads/remembers those Tuesday warning emails. I don’t want him to get fired, because he’s been pretty good otherwise, but man… poor judgement, for sure.

        1. babblemouth*

          My eyebrows just shot up… What happens the day someone decides to be “the good guy with a gun” and actually hurts one of the actors? This has disaster written all over it.

    2. Rey*

      This is really weird! I have never experienced this, but I would definitely be upset. This reminds me of the fake nuclear warning in Hawaii. Even if the email has completely disappeared, I still think you should still tell your manager how upsetting it was (and tell your coworkers to do the same). The IT guy should be testing the system security, but this was done in poor taste, and management needs to hear from enough upset employees so that management is pushed to do something about it.

      1. Viola E.*

        Exactly like that! I can’t imagine how traumatic it was for the coworker whose family member was supposedly affected. My team talked about it; I think my manager was upset by it too. I hope they send out some kind of apology or something — something more than just “the email was fake, disregard” which we already got. :/

    4. nep*

      That is really awful. I hope internet-security guy will be held accountable for that in some way.
      (My take, anyway–I’ll be interested in people’s responses.)

      1. Viola E.*

        My take as well. I said above that I don’t want him to get fired, but I suspect he might. I guess it depends whether anybody high-up was as upset about it as we underlings were. He’s really great most of the time, from what I’ve seen, so I really do hope he’s able to recover.

        1. wayward*

          Maybe not, if he’s otherwise good at his job, given that it wouldn’t be easy to replace a decent security person.

    5. neverjaunty*

      It’s beyond “really weird” and well into “this person has zero judgment and is lucky not to be fired”. Playing little games with people to get them to report spam is obnoxious enough, but a fake security alert that (quite reasonably) made people worry about their loved ones? No.

  216. TexasRager*

    Am I wrong for not considering an employee for promotion based on their interactions with other staff? I have an employee who is a highly motivated and would like to be considered for promotion. Their work and efforts are in line with moving up in the company, but this employee is also pushy and seems unaware of how they are treating other people or how their actions are viewed (–they think they are well liked, but many view their behavior as bullying). We’ve had a few conversations about this concern, but I haven’t explicitly said that their interactions make it difficult for me to move them to the next level. Is behavior such as this enough to keep them in their existing role and not reward them with a promotion? Or am I wrongfully keeping them from a promotion they deserve because I don’t like their communication style?

    1. LadyKelvin*

      No! It is absolutely reasonable to not promote someone for not getting along with/working well with their colleagues. Promoting them would just signal to the rest of your staff that you don’t care about professionalism and working conditions. When people they work with think they are bullies it is not just “I don’t like their communication style”. And you should tell him that’s why they are not being promoted. Nobody wants a bully as a manager/superior.

      1. Argh!*

        They might not really be a bully, just strong willed or possibly from Queens. I’ve lived in Brooklyn, NY and my deferential self-effacing introverted colleagues don’t all love me. (I don’t love them either because they talk behind people’s backs instead of confronting people directly) Sometimes being “pushy” is really useful if you have to advocate for your unit and your people. How you’re viewed by some people with some personality types isn’t always a true indicator of success in another job title or with other people. I have had what appear to be “words” with people then 2 minutes later we’re happy and chatty and things are going along smoothly. Some onlookers only remember the “words” and not the other 640 minutes of productive collaboration, good-natured joking around, and general friendliness. Perception can’t just be based on gossip – it should be first-hand and objective.

        Being decisive is a good supervisory skill as long as it’s balanced with other skills and set in the right environment.

        1. neverjaunty*

          But the standard you’re insisting on is not “objective”. It doesn’t matter where you grew up if you can’t communicate effectively with a wide range of people. Insisting that your communications style is the best and people who aren’t comfortable with it are the ones with the problem? That’s not about being direct, that’s poor communications.

    2. raktajino*

      Not a hiring-level person, but isn’t some variation of “communicates respectfully and productively” in the employee’s current job description? Does the promotion require more communication (say, cross-team delegation) and do you think the employee wouldn’t be able to rise to the occasion with training and coaching?

    3. miyeritari*

      1. I think it’s reasonable not to promote someone because of a reason like this.
      2. If they ask for the promotion and this is why you’re not promoting them, you should tell them that.

    4. I Have Been To Paradox But I Have Never Been To Me*

      It’s possible the candidate may not be aware of the problem, especially if “I haven’t explicitly said that their interactions make it difficult for me to move them to the next level,” because of Asperger’s Syndrome. I know I can come across as standoffish sometimes, it’s sometimes a super major effort for me to be social in the way “normal” people are. Obviously in my case I’m aware of it, but that still doesn’t make it any easier. Of course, it’s also possible that even if he does have Asperger’s, a more clear and direct explanation may not help, because Asperger’s manifests itself differently in each person.

      1. TexasRager*

        Thank you! I have noted the issue during reviews and framed it as an area that requires considerable improvement, but not to the degree that I should. I’ll keep your experience in mind when I speak to them again.

    5. Argh!*

      Promotions shouldn’t be a “reward” unless it’s in name only, with more money (some places do this)

      A promotion usually means less technical work and more interpersonal interaction. It means using a different set of skills and learning new skills.

      Think of all the terrible managers discussed here (my own, for example). They were promoted without having the soft skills necessary to do the job, and merely getting the job somehow sends a signal that they don’t need training in people skills.

      It might be more fruitful to do a skills assessment with him just discussing the skills needed for the next level (vs. discussing it in the performance review). For example, leading meetings vs. participating in them, or scheduling other people’s time vs. scheduling your own.

    6. Not All Who Wander*

      I think you’re absolutely right for considering it…it could easily drive off other employees. (Seen that a depressing number of times.) BUT I think you’re wrong for not telling them flat out that’s the problem. I had quite a few stylistic things that were normal to positive (like speed of delivery) that really didn’t go over well when I moved to a new office…only no one told me that. I was willing to work at changing them (though O. M. G. I also wanted to grab people and shake the words out of them) but it took me FOREVER to figure out that people were just slooooooooooow talkers in the new office & a fast delivery or quick back/forth was considered rude. General comments about “working on my communication style” didn’t tell me what the problem was….I assumed they meant I needed to spell things out in more detail in emails! Granted, I opted to leave that job for a variety of reasons, but I did force myself to slow down while I was there!

  217. K_A*

    There’s this phenomenon known in some circles as a “group b*tch” (“i” deleted just so this won’t get bumped to moderation), which refers to those times when, rather than talking to the person or people who are actually causing a problem, the supervisor will instead give one of those, “We all have to be careful to do/not do _______” speeches to everybody, guilty or not guilty, without any hint as to what prompted the speech.

    It’s not a good strategy because this is what always happens: the person or people who are causing the problem don’t recognize/acknowledge that they are in fact the problem; and/or the ones who aren’t the problem worry and fret over whether they’re the ones at fault or not and can’t come to any conclusions. So it’s pretty much the worst of both worlds.

    Just this week, my supervisor (who doesn’t ordinarily seem to have a big problem with constructive or even semi-constructive criticism :-) ) sent out via email a group b*tch about how members of our department need to be more careful about following the dress code. Some of us? All of us? Some of us only now and then and some of us all the time? One of us? Who can say? Certainly not me. I actually hadn’t noticed anybody violating the dress code, and I do think I would notice (being a pretty conservative dresser myself).

    And if that wasn’t bad enough, her email said not to “second-guess” our wardrobe choices over the past couple of weeks. Well, how in the world are we supposed to do that? How are we supposed to (1) do a better job of following the dress code when we (2) aren’t sure exactly what we did wrong, if anything, and (3) when we are told not to consider where we have erred? I’m pretty sure that her comment about skirt lengths wasn’t directed at me since I never wear short skirts. But as for the rest of it…well, what’s the point in complaining and then not making it clear who you’re complaining about and why you’re complaining? It’s just silly.

    I’d like to just ask her, but golly, she can get kind of snippy when she’s in a mood (and it takes a while for her to get over that snippiness), and I’m pretty sure she’s in a mood now. So what I’m going to do is my best, and if she has a problem, she’s going to have to mention it specifically. But if anyone has any better ideas, I’d love to hear them, and my coworkers would, too, because we’re all kind of flummoxed.

    1. Argh!*

      I supervise someone who does this, and unfortunately this person is an obnoxious narcissist who can’t see things from others’ point of view and always thinks they’re right. It’s not worth writing up as insubordination but I haven’t been able to disable this dysfunctional approach. It drives me crazy. It’s just wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong!!! (And thanks for validating me on that)

      In my not-so-humble opinion borne of sad experience: your boss is a cowardly jerk who will never change. Feel free to ask clarifying questions in your email responses so that you get the information you need, but otherwise leave it alone. (Asking in person will cause her to shrivel into invisibility and make puppies in heaven shed tears of acid rain on watermelon crops). Just get the answers you need as best you can and don’t worry about this ridiculously immature, lame so-called approach to supervision.

      Having supervised one of these people, I’m hesitant to suggest going to her boss. Either she learned it from her boss because the boss is also an idiot, or the boss is great, does things right, and your supervisor is just too dim-witted to be coachable.

      Best of luck!

    2. ArtsNerd*

      Can you ask for clarification in a borderline-perky way? “Thanks so much for bringing this to my attention! Do you mind letting me know which specific aspects of the dress code have been a problem recently? I’d like to make sure I’m taking special care to meet those in particular. Have a great one!”

      1. K_A*

        You know, that might work. I’m not all that good at perky, though, which is a shame since perkiness can come in darn handy at times. But thanks. I wonder if my department tackle her (perkily) about it as a group? We all were recipients of the group b*tch, and some of us are good at perky.

        1. Theodoric of York*

          I would just ignore the whole thing. She was not specific about the violation, and she said NOT to second guess your wardrobe choices. This just sounds like some random complaint. Don’t escalate it by bringing it up to her.

        2. K_A*

          That’s what I’m doing so far. I’m assuming – rightly or wrongly – that if I were doing something completely wrong, she’d tell me. And of course, that’s exactly what she ought to have done in the first place. Thanks for your advice, everyone.

  218. Too much sick time*

    I’m taking way too much sick leave and I’m not sure what to do about it. It’s real, and it’s necessary. I’ve had a really rough month for health issues (both mental and physical.) So I’m stressing out about being sick. Because I’ve been out, a lot. Like, at least 7 sick days this month and I’m only there 4 days a week. I’ve tried to mitigate it by saying I’m “working from home” but that really just means being responsive via email as best as a I can. I’m not making any progress on my projects, and my coworkers can surely tell.

    My employer has unlimited sick leave, but it’s largely de facto because there are very few HR-type policies in place vs. a conscious decision to make it a benefit. They were super accommodating of a coworker who had cancer, both through his treatment and currently with his medical appointments. I disclosed my depression, and my boss said he wasn’t worried about my taking the time I need to work around it, as I’m a high performer. These are good things, obviously.

    That said, my boss is the type of person whose earnest, compassionate responses to things in theory frequently give way to frustration when the very real challenges of being compassionate arise, and those conversations may or may not still be retained in his memory. We’re too small for FMLA to apply, and I think if I asked for intermittent leave it would stress my boss out more than help (see: lack of HR),

    It’s bad enough, that I hesitated to go to urgent care this week with respiratory issues, because I was like “urgent care means I need to stay home and rest, and how on earth can I call in sick AGAIN!?” No one wants to hear the recording I took of myself struggling to breathe (I sounded like a barnyard animal which I find amusing, but of course it’s also upsetting) and no one’s going to confront me over taking too much time, but the resentment is going to kick in at some point.

    Do I just drag myself in on the brink of death moving forward? Spend all of my depression-energy on being at my desk vs. showering or other basic living tasks? How many more sick days can I take? I’m prone to catching any and all respiratory illnesses that spread around, and people who brag about never taking sick days in X years are just baffling to me. I would love, so much, to be that well.

    1. Kathleen_A*

      Look, your company has unlimited leave. You need a lot of leave at the moment. So I suggest you take what you need! Talk to your supervisor, sure, but if you can’t come in, you can’t come in. There’s no point in worrying about theoretical resentment. Maybe your coworkers will resent it, but you know, maybe they (at least the ones who matter to you) will see that you’re struggling and give you a break. Isn’t that what you’d do? Don’t think badly of your coworkers unless and until they give you a reason to think badly of them.

      P.S. It’s been a nasty spring for allergies and asthma around here! My asthma is very well controlled, thank goodness, because I’m one of the lucky ones in that respect. But my God, my eyes are so itchy I just want to pop them out and give them a good rinsing.

      1. Too much sick time*

        You called it correctly – I’m back at the office (legitimately feeling well enough to be here) and my boss was like “We’re not exactly curing cancer here. You have to take care of yourself and we’ll muddle through.” Coworkers were also pleased to learn I’m doing better, and not focused on missed work.

        What is this place!? I don’t think I’ll ever leave it.

    2. Argh!*

      Are your four days Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday? Having Wednesday off might even out your energy requirements.

      1. Too much sick time*

        Thats… such an excellent idea. I was planning to ask for Wednesdays remote, but it might make more sense to move the Friday shift of my other (super l0w-key) job to Wed if the management is game.

    3. SpaceNovice*

      Do not, I repeat, do NOT mess with breathing problems. Take them seriously. The respiratory bugs are getting worse, or at least some of them are.

      If you want a good gauge for how bad of trouble you’re having with breathing: get a pulse oximeter (those little things they put on your finger). You can get them for under $20 on Amazon or at a local drugstore. Anything 95-100% oxygen saturation is good. Anything 94-92 can be iffy. Anything below that and you’re having some serious getting oxygen into your blood and need to seek immediate medical attention. This little device saved my dad’s life; he wouldn’t go to the doctors until he saw how low his oxygen levels were, and he was immediately hospitalized after he got there.

      I suspect you’ve probably already figured out what’s making it easy for you to catch colds, but this sounds more like a chronic thing that might need a primary doctor to look at it. Or, at least, a different urgent care.

      I’m sorry you’re dealing with this! :( I would be stressed out, too. Try and take care of yourself.

      1. Too much sick time*

        Thanks so much. Fortunately I got the good sense to go before my oxygen levels dipped below normal. I was surprised by how quickly and seriously the staff acted to get me on a breathing treatment, and a bit alarmed when thinking back to how many times I rode out less severe episodes when I probably should have acted quickly for medical care. I followed up with my primary care doc, and we’ve got a game plan in place. I just know from experience that there’s probably a lot of trial and error involved, and getting things under control is not something that is likely to happen quickly if it happens at all, and I LIKE my job and my employer! I’d much rather be there than miserable.

        1. SpaceNovice*

          Good sense, yes. I’m glad they took it seriously–you can take a turn quickly when your oxygen levels get too low. I would really stress getting a pulse oximeter so you can test whenever you’re not sure how bad an episode is if you have chronic respiratory problems (again–literally saved my dad’s life from his own stubborn self!). I hope you and your primary doctor can get it all figured out quickly (glad you went!). Good luck!

    4. Gatomon*

      Maybe you should work out a full week off work to recuperate. I know that sounds like it will make you feel more guilty, but maybe some solid rest, without the stress of having to show up ill or decide to call out, will help you heal. And if it’s known that you’ll be out for a week, your coworkers can make arrangements to cover your work while you’re out, even if it’s rather short notice.

      I am one of those people who only catches a cold every couple of years, but even I’ve had a few that lingered forever. I remember feeling terrible in college calling out of work frequently during a very nasty kid cold that I just couldn’t kick. I’d skip a day or two, come back for a few days, then start to fall over all over again. I ended up just taking a week off from everything to get better.

    5. Llama Grooming Coordinator*

      I mean…let me be honest, it sounds like what you’re currently doing isn’t working. More to the point, it seems like trying to work is making you sicker.

      So, this might sound crazy, but…would it be possible to state this to your employer and request at least a week off to recover? I’m not sure of your pay situation (whether your sick leave is paid), and I’m certainly not a doctor, but it seems like your getting sick often and your depression flaring up might be related, and having a week where you don’t have to worry about going to work might help reset everything. Part of the reason I’m suggesting this is because you’ve already disclosed to your employer and they’ve received it well, from what you said. Even though you’re not covered by FMLA, it seems like you work for good people. Plus, from my perspective, if I were your employer I’d be able to deal better with an expected week off rather than intermittent days where I might have to scramble for coverage.

      At the very least, you shouldn’t try to do as much at work! Ask if your workload can be reduced or even if you can work a shortened schedule (if you can afford to). It sounds like you’re putting forth a lot of effort just to be functional at your “normal” level, which you can’t keep up! (Even pro athletes build in days of rest.)

      Good luck – and I hope you’re better and back to your baseline soon.

  219. Argh!*

    Question / food for thought

    Personality conflict, or personality differences

    Is that a real thing, or is it that one or both or all parties is not self-aware enough to put their worst attributes aside for the common goal of the workplace? How can onlookers write off serious problems by using that expression? Are they just uneducated or too lazy to really give it some thought?

    Asking for a friend….

    1. ArtsNerd*

      Sometimes personality conflicts are real (I had one on a project and while the end result was great, we shall not work together in the future.) Usually though it’s people avoiding drama or needing to intervene. Sometimes I’ll use “personality conflict” as code for “that person is an ass.”

    2. Not All Who Wander*

      Some are real. I generally get along with the vast majority of people, and can pretend to be chatty & friendly to pretty much anyone that I need to be in a work setting. There is this one guy at work though….omg. We absolutely should not even been in the same meetings. Objectively, we each recognize that the other is good at what they do and a decent human being…but we hit BEC level with each other in less than a week. I know we’ve both tried, but there is NOTHING that one of us does that doesn’t rub the other wrong from sense of humor to work style to personal tics. You can just about hear teeth grinding whenever the other is talking. We are civil because we are both professional adults, but we both work very very hard at avoiding each other. Fortunately, our specialties don’t overlap much. I’m pretty sure if we had to work closely, one of us would explode in fairly short order even though we’re both known for having very high tolerances in general. It’s very weird…but very real!

    3. Alternative Person*

      Some are real. Some are people using ‘personality conflict’ as a cover for not dealing with/distracting from the real problem.

      I’d also say it’s a manifestation of sexism when women get portrayed as ‘stuck up bitches’ for daring to have an opinion.

  220. Annoyed on her behalf*

    We have a fairly new hire (been here about 6 weeks) who needed to leave early today in order to drive to and attend a family member’s wedding tonight. She’s a bridesmaid and it’s a good 2 hour drive. This is her first job out of college, entry level.
    With our manager’s approval, she worked a half hour late each day this week and skipped lunch today, aiming to leave at 2.
    At 1:55, coworker gave her a big list of things that *HAD* to get done before the weekend. Pressured her to “just do them quickly – needed to be done by the end of the work day.”
    They were all crappy piddly things that were not urgent. Some were made up busy work.
    I noticed new coworker still working and shaking like a leaf. Asked why she was still there. She showed me the list.
    I took the list and told her to go ahead and leave, and I would make sure these things got done. She was more than an hour past when she wanted to leave.
    My manager is on the road today, so I took the list to coworker and asked her about it. She said she was “trying to teach her a lesson about planning on leaving early.”
    I am so pissed at coworker. She has no authority over new hire. New hire made arrangements with our manager and had worked in advance to make up the time.

    1. Argh!*

      Wow what a jerk! Who was she to teach anyone a lesson? Good on you for teaching her a lesson on teaching people a lesson :-p

      I hope your boss will put a stop to that nonsense. The new coworker wound up working over 40 hours! And the boss was countermanded!

    3. I Have Been To Paradox But I Have Never Been To Me*

      Sounds like bullying to me. I hope coworker is held to account for her actions. Ideally, the “what goes around comes around” card should be played, and SHE should be assigned a big list of things that had to be completed by the end of the workday – by someone with authority over her. Let HER be still working and shaking like a leaf five minutes before quitting time.

      1. Sally*

        Yeah, I agree that this sounds like bullying. What a cruel thing to do – especially on purpose! Enough last-minute stuff comes up on its own at work! I hope she at least is made to apologize to your new coworker. Keep us posted on this.

    5. CatCat*

      What the actual F.

      I hope the list-making coworker is slapped down HARD when the manager gets back in the office. If she still even has a job at that point, she should be made to apologize to the young coworker, be publicly told that she has no authority over her coworkers’ work, and get the crappy assignments for the rest of the year.

      Unbelievable. I feel so bad for young coworker. So much stress (shaking like a leaf!) feeling like she had to choose between her job and making it to major family event just so the list-making coworker can go on a power trip. NO.

    6. Salt Water*

      If she’s an hourly employee, she’s owed over an hour of overtime if she had worked 40 hours as of 2:00 PM.

      Also, your coworker is awful. There should be repercussions or she’ll feel free to keep on being awful.

    7. SpaceNovice*

      Definitely take this to your manager; that behavior cannot be tolerated. Weddings (hopefully) only happen once, and as a bridesmaid, that means she places a critical part in the wedding. Which means she has to be there early to be maid up, attend the photo shoots, and actually BE THERE for the wedding. A memory for a lifetime, and your coworker thought it was appropriate to make a list of busywork just to “teach her a lesson”? She could literally have just ruined the day of a hundred or more people! You never, under any circumstances, other than life or death, do that to someone participating in such a life-defining event.

      Not only is that bullying behavior, that is disregarding your boss’s direct authority. If I was your boss, I would probably walk that your bullying coworker out the door after learning of it, effective immediately. In absolutely every job I have ever had, people have been excited for those sorts of events, not vindictive! Your coworker is a piece of work. That’s entirely unacceptable. If your boss doesn’t give her some sort of punishment, I would suggest looking for another job immediately. What a sick, horrible person. You have every right to be livid.

    8. Kate Daniels*

      Your coworker is evil, but you are an amazing, lovely coworker and I’m glad the new hire had you there to look out for her today!

    9. Gatomon*

      I want to heartily second everything everyone else has already said, but please don’t forget to empower new coworker to stand up for herself in these situations!

    10. Observer*

      Please loop in your manager. The coworker is an utter jerk.

      Even on a practical level, what “lesson” was she trying to teach?

  221. nym*

    Three cheers for Alison’s awesome cover letter advice!

    I recently applied for an internal promotion, and my grandboss today told me they would like me to fill the role. I agonized a bit over the cover letter, because while the position was open to a pool of probably 7500 people, my team lead told me he had argued hard for a couple of administrative elements in the job classification that would make it particularly attractive to me. So, how do I write a cover letter that walks the fine line between “this is a company-wide posting for people with my general background and experience” and “I’ve been working with the person I’ll be replacing for two years, and I know all kinds of information that’s not in the stilted, formal language of the job announcement about the vision the grandboss has for the project in the next few years and how to drive it forward”?

    Ahem. I quote the grandboss, when she called today to make the formal offer: “We loved your cover letter! It was so conversational, it was like talking to you and we could really see so much more than your CV could tell us about what a great fit you will be!”

    Also three cheers for my team lead for being an amazing boss and supporting my professional growth. He’s looking out for himself – this probably means he gets to keep me 25% on his team instead of 0% as I look for promotions elsewhere – but reading this site has taught me how rare and valuable that is. Unicorn bosses do exist, y’all! Keep looking for yours!

  222. NotThatTasha*

    Hey, sorry if this kind of post isn’t welcome here, but I thought the cumulative experience of the commenters could help me.
    I currently work in a low position in retail. I really need to get out of it and do something else and get a degree. The problem is that I don’t really have a passion for anything, which some people really push, but in the real world doesn’t always work out and pay the bills. Does anybody know any fields that don’t take very much time to get a job in that area and also pay enough to live on? I’m not very good in customer service and am burned out and sick of living with roommates.

    1. nep*

      I think a lot of people have a job that strictly pays the bills, and doesn’t feed a passion.
      Anything in particular you feel you’re good at?

      1. NotThatTasha*

        Manual labor and cleaning, but those things don’t pay very well, I know personally and from family how they destroy the body over the years.

        1. I am who I am*

          Need to add a caveat – this recommendation assumes you aren’t in the south, because I understand the standards and pay are much lower…

          Given you brought up cleaning and physical work, I’ll second nurse’s aide. It is still sort of customer service, taking care of your patients, but very different from retail. In the northeast at least, it pays better than retail, and if you’re willing to do second or third shift, you can get a fairly regular schedule pretty quickly, though it will include every other weekend at the least.

          If you like it and do well, they’ll likely be willing to help pay for you to work up as far as you want to go (LPN, RN, BSN) as there’s a shortage of licensed nurses everywhere. If you don’t, you should at least be able to have a stable schedule to work around if you want to go to school for something else, or take a part time day job that might turn full time, or what not.

          (I worked as an aide for a few years and ultimately became an accountant.)

    2. Can’t think of a name today*

      Trucking, maybe, or other driving jobs? You can get a cdl in a few weeks. I’ve heard some jobs and/or employers are scams tho so be careful. Otherwise, I’m always seeing jobs for cna’s, don’t know the training for that but less than a nursing degree. Train for a skilled trade perhaps?

      1. SpaceNovice*

        I would avoid trucking. Some places are starting to keep their truckers in debt through various methods. These jobs are also going to be one of the first sets to go after they figure out self-driving vehicles. They’re already testing it out in the UK.

    4. SpaceNovice*

      You can always look into the trades. Welding. Plumbing. Electric. Repairing of different natures. There might be local vocational/tech trade schools that are good; just make sure they ARE good. My county school system has a program; your city or county might have the same. You don’t have to be amazing at customer service in those jobs. All you have to do is just don’t be a jerk. Welding and some repair work can be pretty hard. Not sure about the rest. Painting and woodworking don’t pay enough anymore from what I’ve heard. Cooking is also really low pay, don’t bother; the lucrative stuff requires you to basically be a personal chef. Most of these things require certifications, too. Some of the vocational programs are two years, some are one years. Two years are generally needed for a lot of the certs.

      My friends who are welders love it because you get to draw beads of flaming hot liquid onto things and get paid for it, but it can be tough on you and you’ll get burned (when, not if). Welding would generally mean absolutely no customer interaction. I think my friends were able to get their certs in under a year… maybe a few months?

      I think there’s also things like installation of equipment on things like navy/coast guard/etc ships or even luxury yachts. The timelines there can be pretty intense.

      Avoid anything art related, probably. That’s a lot of customer work and building relationships. Potentially the same with software engineering since you gotta make the customer happy and the whole hiring process is very… convoluted. You’d probably get frustrated with it. Pharmacy tech is also very heavy on customer service. Same with vet tech and nursing (but that takes a while).

      You could also be a software tester, configuration manager, or quality analyst. They’re kinda expected to be sticklers and a bit jerky, but in a friendly way. You’re basically paid to be a jerk and hold up the process if things aren’t what they should be. Also, potentially copy-editing. Quality related stuff. Software testing can be taught fairly easily. You still have to deal with some of the weird interview process, though. There might be certifications. Don’t be a business analyst or systems engineer. They’re customer facing.

      If you do decide on a career path that needs a college education, try to do a 2-year community college program that feeds into a state school (just make sure the state school is actually GOOD to its transfer students; some aren’t). You’ll save a lot of money that way.

      You can also start temping for companies and try out different things. It’ll generally pay more than retail.

      Uh, I think that’s it. Maybe that’ll help you figure out a start! Good luck on getting something better!

      1. Not All Who Wander*

        +1 to the trades

        One that wasn’t mentioned but pays INSANELY well is high-wire electrician. As in, the people who climb the great big monster power lines and repair lines. Especially with climate change increasing storm damage, there is a growing shortage. Coworker’s kid just started this summer straight out of high school and the average salary one year in is $70k. (Of course, no way on earth I could do it with my fear of heights!)

    5. Anna Held*

      Ah, “find your passion”. Yeah, no. It doesn’t work that way for most people.

      You mentioned getting a degree — if you’re not sure what you want, definitely go to a community college or otherwise make sure you don’t take on much debt. There are plenty of general degrees, plus a career resource office that can help place you. You can do a generalist degree or just major in something random — with something like English or History, it’s more about writing and research skills than anything else — and many CCs have majors in the trades.

      You also might want to check past open threads — I think we had this conversation with someone a couple months ago.

      Good luck!

    6. MissDisplaced*

      I don’t know why you’d think this type of post isn’t welcome? This is a career advice place, though the workplace “problems” often are more juicy to discuss.
      One thing stands out for me: 1. You at least know you’re not satisfied and want to do something about it. And, no, you don’t have to have a “PASSION” for a career, but it does help to at least like it somewhat. You say you have no passion for anything: well what kinds of things DO YOU LIKE? I’d start with that. There are some really good exercises for this in a book called “What Color is Your Parachute.” It can be very helpful identifying who you are before deciding the kind of work you want to pursue.

      As for a field that doesn’t take very much time to get a job in: It’s hard to say not knowing what you like to do. Certainly: Restaurant/Hotel/Hospitality, Manual Labor/Construction Trades, Sales/Call Centers can all get you started somewhat quickly. There are all sorts of entry-level jobs in Supply Chain/Warehouse/Mail/Driver services. With a little more time and effort (and <2 years education) you could look at entry-level healthcare (medical assistant, dental assistant, x-ray technician, phlebotomist). And of course computer-related jobs if you're good at that, which may not be "programming," but could be technician type things (printer & copier repairs). Real estate agents, sales reps, paralegal, admin assistants, police/fire/security could also be good choices.
      Do they pay enough to live on? At ($10-$20/hour) probably not, but what does nowadays? And what can you realistically expect for entry-level when you're starting out in something? And while cleaning generally doesn't pay, I have a friend who built a small cleaning business and she brings in $1000 a week or more.

      Personally, I'd look at entering the world of 3D printing and take some CAD classes (or download a free CAD software and start learning it yourself). This is a growing field and you can still get into it while it's (fairly) young and the money is decent.

    1. AKA Noone*

      Overrated perk – you get to help people, work with the underserved, make a difference, etc. Motivating and fun at first and quickly wears off. The mission by itself is not enough.

      Under-rated perk: Secret @ workplace is flexible schedule. Not day to day, more they are open to part timers and helping them set the regular shifts they want for the most part. We can generally find a spot for you if you only want 16 regular hours a week. It is a decent place for folks who have saved up their retirement, paid for their house, don’t need health insurance for partners / dependents and want to work a few hours.

    2. babblemouth*

      Under-rated perk: an office with a door that closes.

      Overrated perk: fussball tables.

  224. anon for this*

    I just need to vent: along with all the other aspects of mismanagement at my new job, I got some more news today. My boss told me and my colleague that she’s pregnant (good for her!), but when she found out she was pregnant a few months ago, she realized that she wouldn’t be able to fly to the international conference that we’re hosting next month. She didn’t want people to know until her doctor gave the all-clear, so when she spoke to the CEO, she asked him to tell the team that she wouldn’t be there due to a family commitment, and that they should plan accordingly. Instead, he insisted on telling them that she wouldn’t attend because she and her husband were “trying to start a family,” because he thought that was more “honest.” It’s kind of a moot point now that she’s further along and notifying everyone, but it’s such an egregious and sexist violation of her privacy that I’m livid on her behalf. I can’t say I’m surprised, but this is low, even for him. I’m just glad I don’t interact with him on a daily basis…

    2. CM*

      “Trying to start a family” is worse — it sounds like she refused to go because she was trying to conceive! And I notice that you said your boss, not the coworker, told you about her pregnancy.

  225. Notthemomma*

    I’ve been in the new position since May 1; this week, boss and grand boss both gave me high praise for a project with a boatload of others copied in. I didn’t know how to respond, so pulling in my former ‘deflect all comments’ mentality from former toxic position, I deflected. Manager responded that I had earned it. When I responded that I wasn’t used to praise at work, she responded with ‘awww. I’m so sorry. We think you are a rock star and you deserve all the praise we give you and more!’

    Guys, I teared up. It’s so….different to be in a good place.

  226. Anxiety Ahoy*

    I have been at Company A for nearly 4 years. I’m doing the creative, one-of-a-kind work I love, but there are no benefits that go along with my position. The work environment can be negative at times. As time has gone on the conversations with my coworkers has turned more to complaining than being excited about what’s going on in the office. I had an interview with Company B, which is larger, offers health benefits and a 401k (phone interview and in person interview but still don’t have a salary offer, so that is an unknown at this point). Everyone seemed cheerful during my interview and conducted themselves very professionally, but I would have to completely give up the beloved creative part of my job and become more of a “worker bee”. The benefits are a huge plus; Craftspeople in my position rarely get any, but I don’t want to accept an offer, be there for a year, and then think ‘Maybe this was a mistake…I have all these great perks but I’m bored.’ Is it worth the trade off?

    1. nep*

      Only you can really judge whether it’s worth it to you.
      See how you feel when you’ve actually got an offer. Or–if you don’t get the offer–see whether you feel stung/disappointed or somehow relieved.
      If you did take the job at Company B, could you satisfy the creative side through other, non-work activities?

    2. babblemouth*

      Is the creative work you do something you draw a lot of energy from? If so, is it something you can do in your downtime when you work for Company B? Don’t underestimate the peace of mind that can come from having good benefits – it’s easier to get your creative juices going when you don’t have to worry about paying out of pocket costs for a minor surgery etc.

  227. Incredibly screwed and anxious*

    Help!

    I was an thoughtless and careless idiot today who gave my team’s interns wine (which was bought by my team’s and my personal money). I remembered while giving them, that they were underaged. This happened at the end of the day where everyone else was also drinking and watching the soccer game at the office. I know that I should apologize to my boss but should I do it over email or wait until monday morning to talk to him about it? Also will I get fired? This is my first job and it’s been less than 6 months since I’ve been working.

    1. C*

      Did anyone else notice or comment on it this afternoon? We’re there other incidents related (like did one of the interns have too much and bevahve badly)? Are the interns blabbing about it publicly? If it was just the serving mistake, I’d wait until Monday. It doesn’t seem like it would “come out” over the weekend, and I’d rather have that convo with my boss face to face.

      It’s … not great. But I assume these are college interns, not HS? And everyone else was drinking, and if no one even noticed… I just feel like it’s not a hugely egregious mistake. (I’m sure this wasn’t their first drink.) You just didn’t think it through and aren’t used to having my 19 or 20 year olds around. Own up to it. And without extenuating issues, I’d certainly forgive you and appreciate your remorse. Good luck.

    2. Anna Held*

      To you and Worried, below (not sure if you’re the same) — you wrote the email. Keep it calm, factual, professional. You made a mistake and you won’t again. Listen to your boss; he doesn’t want to hear you go on and on. He knows you’re young yourself, and I assume the interns didn’t get drunk and smash up the company car, so this doesn’t sound fireable to me.

      If your boss saw you Friday and didn’t haul you into his office immediately, you’re probably ok. This is the sort of thing that could be a Big Deal some places, but absolutely nothing at others. No one would care at my place — though I do hope they weren’t high school interns.

      And even if they do fire you, you’ll go home and cry, then have a panic attack, then cry some more. Then you’ll deal with it! You found this job, you’ll find another. A lot of people would find this a very relatable offense. We all blank on things or make mistakes. You’ll be fine.

  228. worried ball of mess*

    I made a really big mistake today and I think I might get fired from it. I’ve been working at my company for 4 months now and while this wasn’t a performance or direct work issue, if on the tiny chance the issue becomes public, the company could be harmed. This mistake happened at the end of the day today (so Friday) and I wasn’t able to apologize to my boss. Should I send him an email tonight or wait until Monday morning to talk to him?

    1. nep*

      If it were me, I would send the e-mail instead of waiting for Monday. I always like to inform my supervisor/boss of things to prevent their being caught off-guard or surprised in some way later. (Don’t know whether that exactly applies in this case, but that would be my thinking.)
      Sorry you’re a worried ball of mess. Hope things will work out OK.

      1. worried ball of mess*

        Thanks for the advise – I sent him an email with my apology and to talk on monday morning.
        He was actually there and saw what I had done afterward, which was too late by that point.
        The thing is that my coworkers’ joked about doing what I did this past two week, but I don’t know if they actually did it. I also know that other workplaces do what I did.

    2. CM*

      If you’re just apologizing, wait until Monday. If nobody knows about the mistake, tell your boss ASAP! The coverup is always worse than the crime. Explain what happened and ideally, your plan to mitigate any damage that might happen as a result.

      1. worried ball of mess*

        Oh I already sent the email….. and multiple people on our team saw, including my boss. There’s no immediate damage so I can’t tell him a solution except that I’ll try harder in the future, which is what I did.

  229. yay for nepotism?*

    Next week the owners’ son is joining the team that I supervise, and I’m not looking forward to it. He can be abrasive and opinionated and frankly I haven’t been impressed with what little of his work I’ve seen. I’m already feeling some pressure from my managers to make this role work for him, and I’m worried that if I have any problems with him I’ll be pressured to just put up with it.

    I mean, I’ll do my best. Hopefully I’m totally underestimating him and he’ll be a great addition to the team. I just don’t know what I’ll do if he isn’t…

  230. Jennifleurs*

    I’ve finally found a new job!! Ironically in many ways it flags as like current awful job, but I’m hoping that my new job role, writing blogs and so on which is what I’ve wanted forever, will balance out any CEO-craziness. That and I’ve had 20+ unsuccessful interviews and I would have taken almost anything to get free.

  231. Anon Failing at Everything*

    What do you do when you’re failing at everything in your job? This has all happened suddenly. I’ve been pulled into the worst vortex of depression/panic attacks that I’ve had since about 10 years ago. My performance at work (freelancer) has completely fallen off the map. Projects have been delayed directly because of me, which will probably cause things to cost more directly because of me. My boss, who is really amazing and understanding, well, I didn’t tell him what was going on at first, and now it’s all just gotten completely out of hand. I’m freaking out because I just can’t for the life of me get something done. It looks impossible to me. I’m really concerned that I’m going to lose my contract over this and that’s making me stress out even more. Every time I try to work on this thing, I completely freak out and start having a panic attack. I just don’t know what to do anymore.

    I was supposed to have this done three weeks ago–three! In my line of work, that is a big, big deal. Any advice would be appreciated greatly.

    1. Chaordic One*

      Does your employer have an EAP? This might be the time to contact them. I would think that they might make a referral for you to get some short-term counseling. If you don’t have an EAP, you might want to pursue some counseling on your own, perhaps with a psychologist or a social worker. I don’t know that you can ever completely eliminate the depression and panic attacks, but with some help you can certainly reduce their severity to a level that you can cope with. (At least that’s been my experience.)

      1. Llama Grooming Coordinator*

        Great advice in general, but Anon might not be eligible even if their employer has an EAP – they’re a freelancer (contractor), not an employee.

        That said, they should definitely seek some form of assistance.

        1. Anon Failing at Everything*

          Thanks for your reply! Yes, you’re right, as a freelancer I don’t have an EAP. However, I thankfully do have some insurance. I just have to bite the bullet and start contacting doctors.

      2. Anon Failing at Everything*

        Thanks for the reply! As Llama Grooming Coordinator said below, I’m a freelancer, so no EAP for me. However, you’re right that I need to go to counseling. I went a long time ago, and I hated it, but I know that it did me some good.

        1. Miss Pantalones En Fuego*

          It can be hard to find the right therapist. This kind of situation is really awful, but I hope you can get some treatment. In the past I’ve had debilitating anxiety and panic attacks that only really improved when I started taking medication, but freaking out about failing at the job only made it worse. Can you talk to your employer and say that you’ve had a sudden medical issue crop up and you are working to get treatment as soon as possible? That might help allay your fears of losing your contract, and they might have some helpful resources and/or reassurance that you are not just slacking.

  232. Miss Pantalones En Fuego*

    Any archaeologists or other field-based people still reading? I have a fashion/wardrobe question!

    I may have an in-person interview for a role that’s part field, part office coming up. It’s quite rare for field people to have interviews at all, so I don’t have that much experience to draw on.

    Years ago I went to an interview for a field job wearing a suit & heels and felt extremely foolish sitting in the office talking to people in their scruffy field stuff. But because this job would be a step up from my current digging job I’m stumped as to what to wear. I was thinking some nice new dark jeans, new shoes, and nice top + jacket, but are jeans always too casual for an interview? I’m sure that jeans or other super casual stuff is what everyone wears in the office. The only archaeologists I know who routinely wear more business casual clothes are consultants and local government officers who meet with clients and developers all day, and I would not be in any kind of client-facing role.

    1. Anxiety Ahoy*

      I don’t have experience with your field of work, but from what you describe your outfit thoughts sound spot on. Some dark wash trouser jeans would probably be appropriate. Add a button down shirt and blazer and I think you’d be good to go. In my work environment no one dresses up because we’re usually a mess all day, but for my last interview I wore a button down collared shirt and some patterned pants (not jeans, but not slacks either). It wasn’t dressy, but not too casual either. I think as long as the clothes fit properly they’ll look professional (no slouchy jeans) and you’ll do fine. Good luck!

  233. babblemouth*

    Very late to the party, but: I’ve been in my job for over 3 years, and today for the first time I had to raise my voice to a colleague that was trying make me say things I didn’t mean. I’ve never before had to call bullshit in this way. I’m generally very conflict-averse, and I managed to do this without my voice wavering in any way. I remained calmed and composed and didn’t stutter, and I’m so proud of me!

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