open thread – June 22-23, 2018

by Alison Green on June 22, 2018

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue.

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  1. Ree*

    I know there are often(OFTEN) questions on Open Thread about working remotely/finding remote work, so apologies for what seems to be a frequent ask…

    My question/advice seeking is:
    I am specifically ONLY looking for remote work. I’m two classes away from finishing my bachelors degree at Western Governors University – which, as a side note, I will FOREVER be grateful to the AAM community for suggesting this school, it has been amazing! I started in October 2016 with 12 transfer credits and will be done will my WHOLE degree in July 2018! I’ve literally never been so proud of myself!
    So, thanks to being able to complete my degree remotely(as well as my husband’s job likely relocating us in the next year or so) I now should/need/want to work remotely too!
    I have a background in project management and my degree is in education(but not as a licensed teacher) which coincides well with HR, training, training management and project management.
    I clearly state in my cover letter that I completed my degree remotely and am seeking fully/mostly remote work and I’m also only applying for jobs that are remote – is there anything else I can do? I expect that the positions I’ve been applying for are super competitive, but am hoping for some AAM gems of wisdom!

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      FlexJobs is worth the money IMO. They curate and validate job listings for remote work.

      Congrats on your degree!

    2. rageismycaffeine*

      I don’t have any suggestions, but I did want to congratulate you on your degree, that is wonderful! You SHOULD be proud!

    3. WGUmaybe?*

      Which degree did you get? I am considering their Instructional Design masters but don’t want to work in schools.

      1. Ree*

        So I actually started out in their K-8 Elementary Education program, but due to timing of completing my degree(I calculated out when I would finish at my current pace after a year), I knew that I would likely move before my demonstration teaching would begin, so I asked to be switched to their Educational Studies program(it’s not listed on the website but it’s an option for already enrolled students) which is a non-licensure program.
        From what I’ve seen in job listings for private sector positions, if you want to design course material for training or schools(as in, create the content but not work for a school) Instructional Design experience or a degree would be perfect.
        I love how WGU is setup – you teach yourself the curriculum and then you take a cumulative test or complete a project(or five, in some classes) or do both to prove you know the material.
        The key is being a good test taker, people who aren’t really struggle with the format at WGU. Also if they aren’t self motivated, because while there are instructors to help you, there are NO timelines to follow, you get your work done at your own pace(I’m not sure what the Masters side is, but the Bachelors side is 12 credits per 6 month term minimum completion or you get placed on academic probabtion)
        There’s some post graduation job help/job board, but the Alumni network isn’t like a state college(based on what I’ve seen from my husband’s side as a traditional state college grad), but I was able to join the Kappa Delta Pi Honor Society and that’s good for networking as well.
        I can answer any other questions you might have that are more specific too!

      2. amelialovessethos*

        I have a masters in instructional design and I work in corporate training. Go for it!

      3. DizzyFog*

        I have a masters in instructional design and work 100% remote at a job I found via FlexJobs. :) If you have an interest in creating training, go for the masters and really learn to do it well. You can have a great career in instructional design.

        1. DizzyFog*

          Adding because I hit Submit too soon and forgot to mention – I’ve been working as an instructional designer for 20 years and I’ve never worked in a school. I worked for a college once, but I was supporting professors rather than working with students. I’ve also worked in healthcare, for a social-service non-profit, for the military, and various corporate industries. There are a lot of options out there!

        2. WGUmaybe?*

          Thank you! This is so encouraging to me. I’ve taught adult education courses in a variety of settings for 12 years, and creating new teaching strategies is one of my favorite parts, so as I move to a phase of my life where I want more full-time work, Instructional Design is very appealing.

    4. Doodle*

      Aside to Ree: would you be willing to share how you did the education bachelors at WGU without licensure? That’s what I’d be looking to do, but I thought all of their BA/BS options were only offered with the license. Thanks in advance — I’ve looked at this for a long time and am hoping to finally make the jump.

      1. Ree*

        I started in the Elementary Education degree with licensure and then after a year I asked to be moved to the Educational Studies degree(without licensure) – that Bachelor’s degree isn’t listed as something you can enroll in publicly(it is in the Student Handbook), but it is an option if you’re a current student(hope that makes sense) They have that degree in place for those who change their minds about becoming a teacher or if anyone fails demonstration teaching. It basically swaps the demonstration teaching for 5 additional classes that are setup like a masters thesis/capstone project.

        1. Doodle*

          That’s awesome, thank you so much! Didn’t realize that existed, and it sounds like that would work for me.

    5. Rachel*

      oh man I wish I could leave you the name of my company…we’re a training company and we’re constantly looking for new instructional designers and training specialists. And half our staff are remote contractors…
      I’ll just say this: there are lots of great training and change management companies in the Washington DC area…

      1. Ree*

        :D
        I’m an excellent Googler, so let’s see if I can maybe find your company! ;) Thank you!

      2. The Grammarian*

        Also, look for management consulting jobs. Some are part remote, part travel, or all remote. Change management can include training, which requires instructional design knowledge.

      3. Database Developer Dude*

        Rachel, and Ree,

        Perhaps the two of you could use Alison as a go-between if the issue is not broadcasting this on the comment thread?

        Alison,
        Is this something you’d be willing to do on a case-by-case basis?

    6. Triplestep*

      Higheredjobs dot com allows you to run a search that returns only remote jobs. Not sure if your education degree would align with those, but I do see things on there that seem like they’d appeal to trainers – not just teachers/professors.

        1. Triplestep*

          I stumbled on it years ago – I do not work in higher ed, but I guess for folks who do, it’s one of the go-to sites. But they also list categories that appeal to me (design and construction management) and lots of administrative jobs, so you don’t have to be in higher ed to find something there.

      2. Kate Daniels*

        Thank you so much for this recommendation! I’ve been casually on the lookout for remote work and the jobs listed on this site are so much more suited to my background than the ones listed on other websites that tend to have more of a tech focus.

        (Thank you also for asking this question, Ree! I was going to ask something similar today, but you beat me to it and even managed to be the first comment.)

        1. Triplestep*

          You are very welcome! Their search engine is really good compared to many, and – even though I do not have the expertise in areas for which they post remote jobs – I was still impressed that you can filter on that one option. So many search engines lack this.

    7. Sue Donym*

      VirtualVocations is another job site that focuses on remote or telecommuting jobs. I’ve been browsing the listings but haven’t signed up for the paid version though, does anyone have experience with this site?

  2. FaintlyMacabre*

    Two questions:

    I interviewed for a job in April, but didn’t get it. (I had previously applied for and interviewed for the position about two years ago, but the spot wasn’t filled.) On the day that I got the rejection notice, I got a response to my thank you letter from one of the people I interviewed with, saying that she would be leaving soon and to keep an eye open for the position to open up again. And now it has. I will reapply, and my understanding is that I can just resubmit my materials. Do I put a line in the cover letter acknowledging that I met with these people two months ago?

    For another job, in the ad they put “no phone calls”, but I’m confused about if it is possible to work remotely. A few things in the ad make it seem possible, but it is never explicitly stated. Can I email the address given for where to send the resume and ask, or does “no phone calls” mean no questions? I doubt I would move for the job, so it would be a mutual waste of time to apply if it can’t be done remotely.

    1. 1700*

      I think no phone calls would be if you were essentially wasting their time by not following basic instructions, but seeing as you were told to apply by someone you previously interviewed with, have previously interviewed and can’t undertake the work unless you’re clear it’s flexible, it seems like you can call or email to ask these very specific things

      1. FaintlyMacabre*

        The two questions are about two seperate jobs, I guess that was unclear. I’ve never applied before with the people who said “no phone calls.”

    2. The New Wanderer*

      For the second job, I would assume “no phone calls” means no questions as a general rule because they know no one is calling unless they have questions or want to jump the queue somehow. They can’t really put “no emails” if that’s the method for applying…

      I think you can either put in your email or cover letter (if they are different) that you are open to remote work, or something like “I am not looking to relocate but would excel at this position in a remote capacity because of {reasons}.”

      1. Falling Diphthong*

        No phone calls really could go “No phone calls with questions answered in the ad” or “No phone calls, I don’t care how good your question is, I already talked to 8 clueless people today.”

    3. Anonymosity*

      For your first question, yes. “In March 20xx, I met with Natasha and Wanda regarding this position. Although ultimately I was not selected, my interest in joining the Avengers remains strong,” or something to that effect. Even if Natasha is leaving, if she and Wanda thought you’d be a strong candidate, Commander Hill could still ask them about your previous interview and they could mention that.

    4. Bea*

      I’m baffled at the misunderstanding of no phone calls.

      It means don’t call. Use the email address provided for all correspondence. It’s because they can answer at their convenience. You certainly can ask questions but don’t call them to do so!

    5. ..Kat..*

      Wait until they contact you for an interview and ask about remote work possibilities then if you would only want this job as a work-remotely job. If this is not a deal breaker, wait to ask until you interview (and wow them!).

  3. Alternative Person*

    I have had a week.

    The Super Part Timer extended her break, meaning it starts this week rather than next it meaning we’re picking up her slack already. I already got some of it today via getting one of her clients who doesn’t particularly like me because I make said client take notes (I know).

    My manager is possibly engaging in some punitive passive aggression because I’m tentatively planning to drop some hours in the near future (I’m potentially going to work at a better place part time). I know it sucks for him, because the senior managers don’t value skilled staff, let alone receptionists, but well, given how I’ve been treated recently he can’t be surprised. I can’t be sure because he’s one of those best not to ascribe malice to what might be thoughtlessness types but still.

    My Training leader sent me a very blunt e-mail basically laying out a schedule (I’m off course because my manager won’t authorize time/clients for the training practicums which she knows), and backhandedly saying I will have to shell out for the course again (rest assured, I won’t be using this training company again if that ends up being the result), if I don’t start meeting deadlines but, things going well, I will be back on track by the end of July. I wish she had contacted me first because now I’m all spiteful and I don’t want to do work. I’ll be over it tomorrow, but it stings. I’m already mad enough at myself for being off schedule, I don’t need it rubbing in.

    Idiot co-worker managed to get completely lost on his way to the satellite office, irritating one of the pushier clients. I know he doesn’t go there often but he should know better. He said at the main office earlier, he wasn’t sure of the way, he should have double, triple checked before he left (we have step by step picture directions available on the network). I’m halfway between him not checking the directions, and a deliberate attempt to not be sent to the satellite office. I hope the client forgives him because if they don’t, I might have to pick up that work screwing my own schedule over even further.

    Commiserations to those who had weeks like mine.

    1. rageismycaffeine*

      I swear there must be something in the stars, or the phase of the moon, or something because *everyone* I know has had A Week.

      I also commiserate with everyone in the same boat, and with you. I will raise my glass to you when I have my “I made it to Friday” drink tonight.

      1. Falling Diphthong*

        My week actually involved my saying “I can take on Urgent Project A and get it done by deadline, possibly a day earlier, but I can’t do that and Urgent Project B by that deadline” and my boss saying “Okay, we’ll reassign B.”

        But for said boss, it involved someone casually mentioning that they weren’t almost finished, or even started, with said Project A because they had gone on vacation instead and I guess hadn’t thought to check in about that? So he had a Week.

    2. 13 days left @ toxic job*

      I’ve heard the solstice highlights what’s out of whack in your life (if you believe in astrology) so maybe that’s it. I found out the other coworker at my level is also quitting his job, which means my office is going to be down two senior employees (him and me) by mid-July. We’ve both been treated so badly at this job I have the naive hope it will make our boss take a reckoning of his behavior, but frankly I doubt it.

      1. Cookie Monster*

        I will totally buy this because it has also been A Week for me. Curse you summer solstice!!!

      2. Alternative Person*

        That’s an interesting thought. I’m not so into Astrology but it’s also nice to think the universe is telling me I’m doing the right thing by working to get out of my current main job.

        Hope things get better for you soon.

      3. Anonymosity*

        I did a thing on Solstice Morn to remind the universe of what needs to be IN whack and yes I included job shit in that.

        *shakes fist at universe and 13 days’ crappy boss*

        1. 13 days left @ toxic job*

          ooh setting intentions for what should go well is a good idea. Maybe I’ll burn a piece of paper that says ‘no micromanagers, no tantrums, no screaming in the workplace’ and put that out in the universe.

      4. SaraV*

        I think most people have heard also how the full moon seems to affect some people in their jobs? ER’s supposedly get way busier, the number of difficult customers increases for retail and food service, etc. So, summer solstice craziness doesn’t surprise me.

        1. Star Nursery*

          Full moon… I’ve heard that a lot as well that things are busier, more incidents, etc.

      5. Monkey Herder*

        I also have 13 days left @a toxic job!

        I have spent a large part of this week muttering ‘not my circus, not my monkeys’…

        Onwards and upwards :)

    4. OhGee*

      I had an actual hell week that involved a coworker who is going through stuff accusing me and my two teammates of terrible behavior toward him, in front of the whole staff. Commiseration indeed.

  4. The Tin Man*

    First of all, thank you to everyone last week who had recommendations on my difficulty in hearing people with accents on conference calls.

    I basically need to vent and someone to tell me a variation of “Not your circus, not your monkeys.”

    I have a coworker, Randy, who people don’t take seriously. I work in a manufacturing-style environment in a business operations role. He does the scheduling. It isn’t a complicated job but he works very hard and takes his work seriously which is critically important in that customer-focused role. I’ve cover his job sometimes when he’s out and I can’t stand it.

    Problem is, Randy is socially awkward. It’s something that is a bit hard to put a finger on but he just seems to be on a slightly different wavelength from everyone else. Ours is an atmosphere with a decent amount of lightly giving each other a hard time. He will occasionally try to do that and it falls completely flat. Other employees have made comments to indicate they don’t take him seriously. In a one-on-one setting I usually say something like “I get that but he works very hard and takes his job seriously. I know I certainly wouldn’t do as well as him in that job day-in and day-out.” The other person typically agrees and stops at that point. I was also glad that grandboss put a quick stop to it when people started piling on Randy in a meeting.

    With all this as a background, I know he wants to take on more responsibility. I have a hard time picturing that happen here because it would be hard for him to change perception and have people take him seriously.

    I need someone to remind me there is no way to diplomatically say “People here don’t take you seriously, if you want to take on more responsibility you should find another job” to someone I am not close to. I even have doubts about how he would do with more complex responsibilities so I should count myself among those who don’t take him seriously. That said, he’s not a bad person and deserves a chance to grow and prove people (including me) wrong.

    1. Mimmy*

      No advice on your question this week, but I too have difficulty with hearing people with accents, so thanks for bring this up – I will go definitely check out last week’s thread.

    2. KR*

      Not sure about the rest, but I know for me it is really hard to give people a hard time jokingly. I think it’s because I’m kind of a socially awkward and nervous people pleaser. There are very few people I can joke with like that because I’m terrified that the joke will fall flat like it usually does and then the person might be offended. Is he good at his job? If he is I might try to impress upon your coworkers that just because someone doesn’t joke around as well as they do doesn’t mean they aren’t deserving of respect professionally.

      1. The Tin Man*

        I appreciate the input, I may have over-emphasized the joking around because it was my example. It is more than that but it was the most concrete thing I could think of. I think it is big on my mind because I think he is just not the type to do that and it just felt like he did it just because he hears the other people do it. I’m not big on the teasing either so I don’t usually partake.

    3. Catalin*

      This may not be your circus, but you might be feeding the monkeys. When people doubt him, just tell them he’s great at his job. No need to reinforce their feelings of awkwardness.
      Bob: Ugh, that Randy, right?
      You: You know what? He’s great at his job.
      Bob: he’s just so weird
      You: Still great at his job.
      Bob changes subject because there’s no conversation to be had here.

      End result? Everyone consistently hears, “Randy is good at his job.” No comma, no qualifications. Full Stop.

      Also, Randy knows he’s awkward. If you want this to be a place where he can get more responsibility/advance, do your best to make it a place like that. It sounds like you have a good head start on it (and thank you for caring about the odd ducks). Maybe kick your efforts up just a bit, that’s all.

      (Sincere apologies if this is mean in any way; I’m a bit socially under-built. I’m really giving you a high five.)

      1. The Tin Man*

        Not too harsh, you make a good point and I agree that in acknowledging that my prefacing a defense of Randy with “I get it” it can feed the monkeys.

        When engaging with someone, especially when I am contradicting them, I tend to lead with agreement and then make my point. It can be effective at times but in this case it doesn’t matter that I agree and Randy can drive me crazy. What matters is that I am sticking up for someone and trying to nip a toxic situation in the bud. Adding toxicity doesn’t ever help that.

        High five! I’m also socially off at times and am pretty constantly worried that people just tolerate me and talk about me when I’m not there and that I don’t mesh with them as well as I think I do. Hearing them talk about Randy feeds that paranoia.

      2. Jules the Third*

        Yeah, not your circus, but Catalin’s got great advice on how not to feed the monkeys.

        To give him any advice, you’d really have to get a lot deeper into his skills / qualifications / goals / ambitions than you are. You can point him to resources that you have used (like, say, AAM); I know people recommend Toastmasters a lot for people struggling with communication. In general, this kind of coaching is for good managers or *maybe* team leads to do, or good friends.

        And to KR’s point – I *hate* environments full of ‘jokingly giving people a hard time’. It’s So Bro, and you’re turning off / losing good people because of it. I also work in manufacturing / production (parts procurement), but our floor has a diverse, skilled workforce (computer repair and upgrade). They joke, but positively – like ‘hey, you Eagles superfan, congrats on that Superbowl win’ not ‘Oh, those Eagles got lucky.’ Management invests in training and coaching. People who are good at their jobs stay and grow instead of leaving for greener pastures.

        I think you’re not a manager, so you have limited ability to guide culture, but ‘joking hard time’ is *really* easy to become ‘harassment’ of people who don’t quite fit. Like Randy.

        1. The Tin Man*

          Y’all are the best. I love that here people can give truly constructive criticism.

          Jules, you have a great point. The only teasing I do is with people I am friends with. That’s why I don’t engage in it at work except in extremely generic ways. And I am going to become more self-aware to see if I actually engage in that behavior more than I think I do. Recently we have a new hire that I think one plant manager has gone too far teasing. Even if the new guy lets it roll off it’s not a good look. New Guy does a great job and I am clear and concise in giving him that feedback, no teasing. I don’t know him well enough to tease. I would have hated if I were treated like he has been when I started, even if it is “good natured”. I was convinced he knew the guy teasing him beforehand but no, he did not.

          As you said I’m not a manager but I will take this to heart and, while I don’t think I engage much in this culture while still being accepted, I will step up my self-awareness game and be an example of how I would like things to be – a place where coworkers can have fun but also work hard and give sincere feedback.

          My default nature is often as a follower, hence my saying I do some generic joking around to fit in. I will be more confident in acting like myself to shape the culture, not shaping myself to act like the culture.

    4. June*

      That’s great you want to mentor Randy!
      Few questions that might help –
      1. Could he learn more soft skills at first (software, time management, process improvement, etc.) and then later on, leadership? Sometimes folks need to be seen as an expert to get the respect they deserve. I know, folks should respect him for his work ethics but maybe this will change their perception of him.
      2. Could he read leadership books or attend classes? Since you are his co-worker, maybe start a lunch time book club with you and Randy. Maybe Randy will see some of his flaws and start changing.
      I hope this helps!

      1. The Tin Man*

        1. Soft skills are definitely in need of improvement. One big thing I’ve noticed is that he seems to prioritize being busy over being efficient. I have offered ways to improve his process but he pretty swiftly shut it down. It feels like he sees his job on a very granular level (i.e. “Fill out this, click on that, send this to that person”) and not so much on the big picture level. He also acts much more knowledgeable about our product/process than he is. That seems a big thing that rubs people, especially plant managers, the wrong way. Our boss has tried to get him more involved in seeing the field but he nature of his position makes that difficult (though does not absolve my boss of responsibility to make that happen).

        2. I think something like that could help shift his mindset. I am in a different office so I couldn’t really do a lunchtime book club. On top of that, I don’t feel I know him well enough to do that. I am also selfish and protective of my lunchtime. Something along the lines of even recommending a book is food for thought, though (lunch pun not intended).

    5. Jadelyn*

      I’m not clear from you post – does Randy report to you? Because if not, that’s a conversation his manager should be having with him, and it’s definitely not your circus or monkeys.

      1. The Tin Man*

        Nope, Randy does not report to me. We have the same boss and 95% different duties. Thus why I know the answer already.

    6. LCL*

      Schedulers tend to be seen as socially awkward because they are. The job makes us that way. You are exactly right, he is on a slightly different wavelength than everyone else. The job is a little disorienting because to be a good scheduler you have to become unstuck in time. You are always looking forward to future schedules, and backwards to see what was done in the past, and you lose track of what day it is exactly. And, because the work schedule greatly affects people’s lives, you have way more indirect power over workers’ lives than you want. And if you have to deny days off so they can’t do something they want, you are the enemy, even though denying vac is the worst part of the job and the part that will make you lose sleep. And when you do it long enough you can become really jaded by the short notice requests.

      So, you want to help your scheduler become a little more in synch with your group? Help find or train him on duties that are concrete. For me that is delivering vehicles for service and repair. For you in a manufacturing environment, I’m sure you can find something hands on. Maybe start with machine inspections, or stocking supplies, or?

      1. The Tin Man*

        Ah, I was not clear. He schedules orders for customers, not people shifts and work calendars.

        That doesn’t erase your suggestion of course. I think him having time in the field to see the operations would help with some of it. As I said in another response some of the awkward is him acting far more knowledgeable about our manufacturing process than he really is. This can especially rankle the plant managers.

        I think some responsibilities to plug him into the day-to-day of the operation would help; he is a bit insulated in our corporate office. Step 1 would be finding a way to make him more efficient at his job so he has more time in the day to take new responsibilities. Unfortunately, being in the corporate office makes it hard for him to spend time in the field at any of our 10 sites that he supports.

        1. LCL*

          There is probably at least one forward thinking manager at one of the remote sites that would welcome the chance to have one of the ‘office people’ come and learn more about how all the parts fit together. All of this is really on your boss. Does Randy actually talk to the customers, or just write the production schedules?

          1. The Tin Man*

            Randy talks with the customers. He doesn’t handle anything on the sales side, they just tell him “We need 500 of widget A at 7:00AM tomorrow”. If it looks like one plant is getting over-ordered he works with the plant managers (and sometimes sales) to make sure all orders can be filled.

            I agree that much of this is on our boss. I like boss a lot but this is a weakness. He is very busy so if you don’t advocate for yourself professional development can fall by the wayside. Plus side is he has always enthusiastically supported me when I have advocated for myself.

            1. LCL*

              That’s why Randy is such a PITA to the plant people. To do what he does requires knowledge of his area an inch deep and a mile wide. Or centimeter deep and kilometer wide. The customers will ask questions of him, and he has to come up with an answer. Again, this is on management to get Randy and a plant person to work together.

          2. CS Rep By Day, Writer By Night*

            Back when I was a Material Cost Planner at a manufacturing plant, there was nothing I loved more than when I had the opportunity to go on the floor and do some assembly or pick products using our crane system. There was something about practical experience with the services and products my position supported that made me much more confident in and enthusiastic about my job, and I’ve carried it forward into my new position as well by asking for (and getting!) similar training here.

    7. KaleighImSorry*

      I’m not a fan of giving people a hard time, even jokingly. To me it is kind of like tickling — not everyone is ticklish, not everyone wants to be touched, and not every joker/tickler means well/knows when to stop.

      While I do believe that shared adversity can bind people together, I don’t think it should be created, and joking about someone who struggles with joking is punching down.

      You have a mean spirited office, even if they are mostly nice people. They are mostly nice people EXCEPT to Randy.

    8. M*

      Some people just don’t know how to playfully bust someone’s chops and accidentally default to unfunny or even mean without realizing it.

      Example: in an episode of RuPaul’s Drag Race, season 9, they had to do a roast. One of the drag queens was super sweet and somewhat naive and not on the same comedic level as the others. So, when she got up there, her jokes were more just really straight forward mean comments that she tried to say in a different tone, and it fell flat. The roastee had thick skin, so she wasn’t offended by the statements. Others had the same theme in their jokes (specific things about her appearance, about her personal life) that were brought up at least once by each person, but the delivery was worlds different. The queen chalked it up to the fact she’s just too nice and knows she isnt funny so she tried too hard and landed on her face.

      That could be what’s happening here. He could be trying to emulate the coworkers and miss where something turns from a lighthearted joke with understanding to at best something unfunny and at worst mean. IDK what to do to fix that or stop it, and I’m not sure how much this is part of why people don’t take him seriously, so i dont have any advice other than he just probably isn’t reading the room or trying too hard to fit in.

  5. Peaches*

    I posted last week about wanting to talk to my boss about transitioning my role from sales support to more admin work.

    Well, I met with my boss Monday, and laid out all of my thoughts. He basically asked that I please stick with it through the end of 2018, and he will ensure things improve. I want to believe him because I know he cares about my happiness, but I just can’t see things changing (i.e., the antiquated system I have to work on every day, with no end in sight of improvements). He insisted though that his vision for my position was “what I was describing to [him] that I wanted to do.” He did say, though, that if I still didn’t like what I was doing down the road, we would find something else for me to do that makes me happy, and is beneficial to the company. I was honest and open with him and told him I was afraid if at some point I didn’t want to do what I was doing now, I was afraid he wouldn’t want me working here at all. He laughed out loud and said that would NEVER happen, and that everyone here loves me and would be devastated to see me go.

    So, even though I’m not sure I made TOO much headway at the moment, at least he knows how I feel, and I know that there is an opportunity to do something else here at some point.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      He basically asked that I please stick with it through the end of 2018, and he will ensure things improve. I want to believe him because I know he cares about my happiness, but I just can’t see things changing

      If he really can ensure that, get him to get it in writing.

    2. CustServGirl*

      It sounds like he really does value you as an employee! I hope thin gs improve as much as they can despite the restraints, and that he makes you feel more valued and that down the road you can develop a position or transition into a role that is a better fit for you.

      Hang in there!

      1. Anon for now*

        Hang in there, but also start getting things together for a job search. Brush up your resume/cover letter and start looking at job postings. If you see the perfect job, apply and get some practice interviewing again (or even possibly a job offer). If you get a great job offer then you can tell your boss to transition you or you take the new job. If the job doesn’t change by the end of the year, kick the job search into high gear.

    3. .*

      idk… to me it feels like stringing you along (and I know there is probably me projecting things) but really… 6 months is a long time to stick it out for a very vague promise/future. I’d at least update my resume and keep an eye out for potential jobs more in line with the direction you wanna go. If not just for the feeling of getting somewhere and doing something to change the position you’re in right now, cause your boss sure won’t.

    4. Nita*

      Ahh, I don’t know… I almost left my job over being pigeon-holed into a certain role, and when I was trying to hand my boss my resignation I was told this would change. Nope. I mean, management honestly tried to give me the experience I wanted, but between my current work taking 100% of my time, my billing rate being too high for doing some of this work (the plan is for someone more entry-level to cover it), and new projects getting snapped up by others who were more familiar with the process, it never happened. Promises are great, but they don’t necessarily materialize. Still here and overall reasonably happy – the flex time is to die for – but of course, that was a disappointment.

    5. Artemesia*

      Start your job search now. His is the classic way to keep kicking the can down the road. No, he doesn’t care about you; he would cut you lose in a heartbeat if it helped him. He won’t remember this vague promise come 2019. Start your job search on the QT and since you don’t need to move, you can wait until something worth moving for comes along. At worst you will see what options you are likely to have which helps either sucking it up where you are, or moving on. He has shined you off. Start looking out for yourself. Hope you find something that lets you do what you want to do. But don’t suffer through half the year and then discover it is just the same in 2019 as it likely will be. It would be different if he said ‘we can transition you to XYZ in September.’ He didn’t he said ‘by and by, maybe, we’ll check and see, just keep doing what you are doing, don’t bother me.’

      1. Peaches*

        There are a few reasons why I’m having a difficult time leaving. One, it’s an 8 minute drive from home. This gives me the flexibility to go home for lunch every day. Two, I can flex my hours. If I want to take a half day on a Friday, I can just work 9 hour days Mon-Thurs. Three (and perhaps most importantly) I anticipate being pregnant within the next year, and maternity leave/benefits are great here.

        1. WellRed*

          Well, then I hope you find a way to like sales because I don’t think this situation will change. Did he give you specifics about why it can’t be done now and about what, exactly, he envisions 6 months from now?

        2. neverjaunty*

          But none of this explains why you should believe his vague assurances. If the benefits of working here are all that, accept that they likely aren’t going to change. Vague assurances that things will in some way be better in six months are vaporware.

  6. not my regular name*

    Tips for how to best talk to your boss about not having enough work to do when you’re still relatively new and learning?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      If you’re new, that’s actually a great time to bring it up. I think you can say something along the lines of “I’m still figuring out how things work in the office and what my role is exactly. I’ve done X, Y, and Z since I’ve been here, but I’m curious if there are other things you want me to do. Am I structuring my day right?”

    2. ExcelJedi*

      I think that’s the easiest time for that! Usually managers give you a smaller workload to start so you can learn things, so you can just say, “I feel really comfortable with what I have on my plate right now, and I think we can ramp up my responsibilities.”

      It might not work if your job has a set timeline for training (like some customer service jobs), but other than that it’s worked for me in the past.

    4. Mickey Q*

      Whenever I’ve done this I’m gotten boring busy work that nobody else wants to do. Then it becomes a permanent part of my job description. It’s better if you can tell them what you want to do.

  7. Delicate Little Flower?*

    I have a manager who is just awful. She yells at people, swears at people, and admonishes people about mistakes in front of other coworkers – sometimes in front of people who aren’t even involved on her “team.” The client we have makes crazy demands and it’s super hard to keep up with everything. Instead of working with us (team of 5) to find out how to best distribute the tasks, my manager just assigns things randomly and gives vague deadlines. Of course nothing is completed by her imaginary deadline and she flips out. I had a closed door meeting with her earlier this week and she was trying to figure out how to phrase something. She said she was annoyed that she couldn’t “say what she wanted” because she was no longer allowed to speak to me “like an adult” because she was afraid I would cry. This was a reference to the meeting we had last week where I had a very negative reaction to her aggressively asking “What the f*ck happened?” when discussing an issue with a project I’m working on.

    She’s been my manager for 8 months. I started therapy a few months ago and I’ve been having health issues that my doctor is having trouble diagnosing (I’m assuming both are related to her “management style”). A team member tried to switch team but my boss’ boss (who thinks my manager is “great” – ???) denied the request. The person then went to HR and even they denied the request. Multiple complaints have been filed against my manager and no one seems to care.

    I’ve been job searching but it’s been so hard! I want to just quit and be done with it! My boyfriend said he would be really mad if I quit without another job lined up, which I completely understand, but I’m legit going crazy. I feel nauseous driving to work and often cry during my commute just thinking about what fun conversation I’ll get to be involved in.

    Is it okay to just quit? How do I make my boyfriend understand where I’m coming from? He doesn’t like his job either, but I’m literally getting yelled at every day for really minor things and I’m also worried about my health issues.

    1. Middle School Teacher*

      I think you can. Could you temp or work retail while you job search? At least it’s something.

      1. Hamburke*

        I was so unhappy with my previous job. I interviewed directly with several companies that weren’t a very good fit (I actually taught one of the interviewers how to automate the position away while in the interview) and then interviewed with a temp agency specializing in accounting support – a field I wanted to get into – while still working. I apparently did very well in the interview (dispite getting lost on my way in and being late) they had a long term position for me within a week. I had a 2 day Gap in employment that I requested. It’s been 10 months, I’ve been hired on there as an employee and done very well there. If I didn’t like the placement, I could have told the temp agency that it wasn’t what I was looking for and found another placement.

        This is definitely something that easier to do in some fields, particularly administrative or support positions, rather than others. OP – I’m not sure what field you’re in but it’s worth a look. Freelance is another option.

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      Is it money your boyfriend’s worried about with you quitting without having another job lined up? Like you two couldn’t pay rent? If so, could you temp in the meantime?

    3. Another Person*

      Well, it’s not like you’ll get a good reference from her. If she’s only been your boss for 8 months it doesn’t matter.

      I say take care of your health first. You can always get a temp job if you need money.

    4. The Original K.*

      Is your boyfriend worried about supporting you financially if you quit? If so, could you and he lay out a plan to ensure that you’ll be OK financially for x amount of time? If you and he are intertwined in that way, I do think it makes sense for it to be a discussion between you because losing your income affects him too.

    5. Trout 'Waver*

      It’s easier to find a job when you currently have one. But if it’s affecting your health, you need to protect yourself first. And honestly, if your boyfriend isn’t on team you, you need a new boyfriend.

      If you share a household with your boyfriend, sit him down and go over how you two would pay for everything if you didn’t work for 1 month, 3 months, or longer, depending on your circumstances.

      If you don’t share a household, he has no standing to say anything critical about how your manage your job, finances, and health.

      1. The New Wanderer*

        Generally speaking, you shouldn’t need to start therapy and have multiple doctor visits for escalating health issues just to survive a job (for people without preexisting conditions). Your boyfriend may not like his job either but is he dealing with that himself? Would he?

        If you need the income and more importantly the insurance, hang on a bit longer but job search like your life depends on it. If it helps your sanity, talk to the other team members and see if they’d be willing to go up the chain as a group to discuss your manager’s treatment of all of you. Individual complaints are being ignored, but maybe presented with a united front the upper management might take you seriously. Don’t stay in the current job much longer if there’s no relief in sight.

      2. Forking Great Username*

        Well, it’s possible for her boyfriend to be on her team and not support her quitting her job if they can’t realistically pay their bills without her income, unless she has a significant amount saved up. I don’t think it’s fair to jump straight to “you need a new boyfriend.”

        1. Trout 'Waver*

          Well, I did post “if your boyfriend isn’t on team you, you need a new boyfriend” rather than “if your boyfriend isn’t on board with you quitting, you need a new boyfriend.”

        2. Ellie*

          Oh, I do. Any boyfriend who can see she’s in bad shape because of a job and not want to help/prioritizes the job is no boyfriend worth having.

          1. Forking Great Username*

            I feel like you’re purposely ignoring half of what I said. If he is prioritizing them having a place to live, then yeah, I get it. Sometimes you have to stick it out a miserable job while searching for a new one because YOU are team you and don’t want to be homeless.

    6. The Tin Man*

      Whether it is okay to just quit depends on a lot of things, including your savings. Well it is always okay to care for your health, but it is a calculated risk. I know full well the oppressive job can be so draining that you have nothing left in the tank to thoroughly job search when you get home at night or on the weekends. How quickly do you think you could get temp work or shift work that could be would help pay some bills while you search for a job more in line with your career goals? I’m a big fan of the “Get out and get temp work to fill the gap and stem the bleeding” strategy. I see it as a middle road from sticking it out in a bad situation and quitting with no backup.

      1. Jules the Third*

        +1000 Look at your savings, etc and talk over the whole issue with your boyfriend. He may be more comfortable with it if you can tell him a reasonable plan (eg,
        – I’ve got 2mo rent / food / utilities $$
        – I’ll defer any other spending
        – I’ll spend at least x hrs / week job hunting
        – If I don’t get a Career Job in 4 weeks, I’ll start Side Job to bring in money until I find Career Job)
        than if you’re talking about quitting while you’re crying on his shoulder.

        In the end, you have to balance the needs of your mind (not getting yelled at) and your body (having rent / food). A chunk of savings helps that a lot.

        On the plus side, record low unemployment right now. Good luck with the hunt. No one deserves a boss like this. Stony non-engagement may help with her.

      2. Safetykats*

        And your healthcare. Is your healthcare through your correct job? They will have to offer you COBRA, but it is insanely expensive. Will you be able to keep seeing your therapist if you’re j T working at all?

    7. Ambpersand*

      Do you have any savings you could live off of for a few months if your job search took a while? Or would you be willing/able to work part time (retail, freelance, anything?) until you could find something full time? If the answer to either of those questions is yes, I would quit. That sounds like behavior that not only isn’t going to change, but is likely to get worse and continue to impact your mental health. And if your mental health isn’t great, your job search is probably going to suffer. I’m not a risk taker or a gambler, but if I were in your shoes- I would quit.

      As for making your boyfriend understand, you might not be able to if he doesn’t understand the full scope of things. But this might be one of those decisions you have to make for the betterment of yourself, even if he doesn’t get it.

    8. I See Real People*

      I’ve been in your shoes and it is so awful! You’re not being delicate or sensitive…Being abused at work really takes its toll on a person’s health! I hope you find something soon. I wonder if you could get steady work through a temp agency while looking for a permanent place? At this point, anything else would be better for you.

    9. DataGirl*

      I did this. My last job was a psychological nightmare and I got to a point where I was having panic attacks every day driving in to work. Thankfully my husband was supportive, so I gave my 2 weeks notice and said I wanted to stay home with my kids (true). Then a week later I got an offer at a place I had previously applied to. I got to be home for three weeks to relax and recover and then start a new job that has proven to be much better for me. You have to take your finances into account, and health care especially if you need therapy/doctor’s care. Find out if your health care ends your last day or the last day of the month. If the last day of the month, try to quit after July 1 so that you have coverage to the end of the month. Then there is COBRA (I’m assuming you are in the US, if not, disregard) but it is VERY, VERRRRRYYYY expensive so keep that in mind. Best of luck, whatever you decide.

      1. Hamburke*

        Cobra is expensive but you have 30 days to sign up and it will retro back. We counted on that last year when my husband changed jobs and new company insurance didn’t kick in until after the first month.

    10. Samiratou*

      I’m very sorry, that sounds awful.

      Do you have savings or any other options financially if you were to quit without something else lined up?

    11. AnonEMoose*

      I’m so sorry; this sounds awful!

      How explicit have you been with your boyfriend about what is happening and how it is affecting you? I ask because I know that when I’m describing an issue that affects me, I tend to minimize things to one extent or another. And your boyfriend may need to know that this is more than you not liking your job.

      This is your job stressing you out to the point that it is affecting your health, and that is not something that is likely to improve. So I think your first step is to sit your boyfriend down and tell him exactly what is happening and why you need to leave. Because I think that, if you don’t get out of there, there is the possibility you could end up in the hospital. I say that because I want you to know that I don’t think this about you being fragile, or weak, or not able to ‘stick it out.’ This is about a highly toxic environment that is damaging you.

      It might help if you have a plan for how you’re going to handle things. I don’t know what you do, but would temping or freelancing be an option? Could you find some part time work that would at least keep money coming in while you look for a job? Make a deal with your boyfriend that if he helps you through getting out of this place and finding a new job, you’ll do the same for him once you’ve found a new job and settled in, or whatever other goal makes sense for the two of you?

    12. SpaceNovice*

      You’re at the point where quitting without something lined up could be a viable option. You’re on the verge of a breakdown, and that could keep you out of work a lot longer than simply quitting and job searching. I am certain that your boyfriend can’t fully understand it as awful, so you’ll need to lay it out somehow.

      I’ve heard of someone sending an email of everything you want to say to someone, then asking them to come talk to you only after they’ve read it before. At the very least, crafting that email and not sending it will give you a gameplan. This is so complicated to explain how awful it is that you need to have an idea of what you want to say before you talk to your boyfriend. You should think about what points/words have clicked with him in the past to make him understand a situation you’re explaining and see what you can do there. I’m afraid I don’t have better advice than that, but someone else should.

    13. Temperance*

      Honestly, I do not think you should quit without another job lined up if you’re having health issues. It’s a terrible idea to lose your insurance.

    14. CatCat*

      Do you have the financial means to support yourself if you just quit? If so, I’d say go for it, but if not, I would stay and work on the exit plan.

      Do you think she might fire you if you made it clear that you are looking for another job? It might be better to do that and get fired if you can sustain yourself financially on unemployment benefits.

    15. Not Today Satan*

      I have quit twice without jobs lined up and both times I have no regret whatsoever. A job is not worth what it’s doing to your health. Plus, if you’re anything like me, the stress of a toxic job can make it harder to find a job (yes, I know the common wisdom is the opposite). Best wishes.

      1. Another Person*

        Agree. I know I totally blew an interview once because it was at the end of a terrible day at toxic job and I was in no state to interview successfully.

        The good news was it was no problem getting time off for interviews because by that point I had so many doctors appointments anyway it wasn’t a big deal to say I had another.

        Point is I regret staying until I found a new job. I’m still trying to recover so I know I’m not performing 100% at the new one. A truly toxic job takes a heavy toll.

        I don’t advise other people stay in toxic jobs that are actually harming their health either.

    16. Namast'ay in Bed*

      I’m hoping the “my boyfriend said he would be really mad if I quit…” was hyperbole or a tl:dr of a much more involved and nuanced conversation, because otherwise he’s an ass. Someone who sees you miserable and getting sick from work and thinks “whelp as long as they keep getting a paycheck I’m happy for them to keep suffering” is not someone you want in your life and you deserve better.

      I was going through a similar situation just over a year ago where the stress and misery from work was taking over my life and making me sick. I’ve been in the dry-heaving-on-the-way-to-work club and it sucks. The only thing that helped me get through it was my incredibly supportive boyfriend who saw how unhappy I was and actively encouraged me to quit with nothing lined up. It took me a while to get to the point of actually doing it because I come from a family where employment and career is very Important and being unhappy at work was just an accepted part of life, so it took me a really long time to get to the point where I was ok with the idea of quitting a job with nothing lined up.

      Back to practical advice – I don’t know the nature of your relationship with your boyfriend, if you are living together or not, but you guys need to have a serious talk. If you aren’t living together, does he know how miserable and sick work is making you? If you aren’t, then there’s a chance that he doesn’t fully understand the impact work is having on you. It’s one thing to hear “my boss is insane and work is awful and I hate it”, it’s another to see you losing sleep, crying while you’re getting ready in the morning, or just generally being stressed in your casual daily existence. If he doesn’t know about this or fully understand, this is the time to make him understand.

      If he knows all this and is still on team suck-it-up, ask him what quitting your job would mean for him. Do you share household expenses that he would have to carry solo? Could you guys afford that? Could he afford to do that and doesn’t want to? Is he unhappy at his job but stays so he thinks you should do it too? Would he be embarrassed to have an unemployed girlfriend? All questions that you should discuss seriously. Other people have posted good advice about determining what your financial future might look like and if/how you could survive without income and for how long.

      But if you have a solid financial plan and/or if you don’t share expenses then he eff right off about being mad. I’m sending you good vibes and internet hugs!

      1. JessicaTate*

        +1 to this. My first read of your post was that it seemed to me like you had both a job problem and (possibly) a boyfriend problem. As Namast’ay said, maybe the “my boyfriend got mad” line was just TLDR shorthand for something more nuanced. But I have to say, if he got “really mad” – that doesn’t line up with any form of supportive that I’d be comfortable with. He could disagree and reasonably discuss why this might be a BAD idea. But, man, you already have a boss who’s getting really mad at you all the time… you don’t need a boyfriend who pulls the same kind of crap. (Again, assuming “really mad” wasn’t shorthand for something actually more supportive.)

        Good luck to you!

      2. MamaGanoush*

        This will not sound nice, but no matter how excellent a person your boyfriend is, remember that if you are not married you have little to no standing to get his financial help. And you won’t be able to get insurance thru his employer either. My spouse and I lived together for some years and we did support each other financially, but I was always aware that I could end up without his support and planned accordingly. (Or something could happen to him that would prevent his helping to support you— again, you have to plan for that.)

    17. Artemesia*

      I don’t think you should quit without having something else lined up. Especially when your BF has made it clear he doesn’t want to support you under those circumstances. Get some strategies during therapy for distancing yourself from this monstrous manager and get cracking on the job search.

    18. Delicate Little Flower?*

      Thank you for all the replies! Apologies that I’m not going to reply to each and every one, but I do appreciate them all!

      I’m saddened and also comforted to hear so many other people going through a similar situation. I don’t need to be “best friends” with all my coworkers, but is it too much to ask that people be respectful? My manager being so aggressive and swearing at me puts me straight into panic mode.

      I think the big thing I’m missing is a plan – I went straight to freaking out (I tend to “flight” instead of “fight”). My boyfriend and I do live together, so money is a concern. I do have some savings since I was living at with my parents after college and then we moved in together a few years later. The idea of temping or retail would mean a pay cut, but it would be better than nothing! It’s also smart to look into what would happen to my insurance. Maybe I can space out the next appointment a little more.

      His boss is a jerk, too, but they don’t always work at the same location, whereas my manager sits across from me. Every. Day. So when I say “my job sucks,” and he says “my job sucks too” it’s not quite the same. If that makes sense. And he has been concerned about my wellbeing, and I don’t think he thinks I’m faking it, but just maybe that I’m exaggerating things (which I have a tendency to do, but this is very, very different). Even when I’m home I’m freaking out about work, so I’m always upset and then he’s upset because I’m freaking out. Hoping I can get him to see that even if I’m making less money it’ll be better for both of us if I’m less miserable. I hadn’t thought about bringing it up that way before!

      But thank you everyone! I will try to use this weekend to start a plan, even if it’s a temporary one.

      1. Not Today Satan*

        I’m now temping, getting a little more than half of what I got paid at ToxicJob. I probably wouldn’t want to live off this longterm, but I can pay the rent and groceries. I’m a thousand times healthier and happier and that’s what matters. I don’t even think about work when I get home, whereas I used to lay in bed obsessing over work. Life is short.

      2. Double A*

        If you have a nervous breakdown, your therapist and doctor can put you on FMLA leave. During this time, you may not get paid (you’ll have to use up all your sick leave and PTO), but you will keep your benefits. You can use this time to rest and job search. You can quit during FMLA.

        I did this. It was totally the right choice when I was in a job where I was falling apart. My therapist diagnosed me with Adjustment Disorder, which is basically like ” you cannot reasonbly cope with whatever situation is in your life right now.” Talk to your therapist about options.

      3. halmsh*

        If you’re on your way out anyway, use your sick time and PTO to give yourself a break while you hunt. You might even want to explore your therapist providing documentation. You could also look into going on leave (FMLA or other workplace approved leave) if your therapist thinks your stress levels merit it, which would allow you to keep your insurance for a little bit.

        When I was harassed at work and was going through the investigation process by my vindictive and incompetent HR team, I regularly took PTO to give myself a break, knowing that my employer did not (as yours does not) have to right to inquire as to whether I was ‘actually’ sick as long as I got my work done and kept the time limited to less than a certain number of consecutive days, as was our policy. Give yourself these breaks if you can. Go offsite for lunch if you can. Take walks around the block when you’re feeling stressed. Anything you can do to give yourself mental breaks while you plot your next steps is helpful.

      4. Mad Baggins*

        You have all my sympathy. I definitely suspected that your boyfriend was picturing “my job sucks”=his situation. And it’s very hard for him to understand your situation objectively since he hears about it through you when you’re upset, so you can’t use him as a barometer for how upset you “should” be.

        As someone who was in a very similar situation, I would recommend
        1) as others have said, explain to your boyfriend what quitting your job now would look like in terms of your finances and what you would do with your time (retail, job hunting, self-care)

        2) mentally check out of work. It is so stressful to deal with someone’s unreasonable demands because you expend so much energy trying to guess what they want and then managing their feelings. And then you expend even more energy trying to change things for the better. Stop trying. This is how things are, you cannot improve them, and you don’t have to. Just do the bare minimum, do not emotionally invest in your work or interactions with your boss, just be a robot and conserve your energy for job hunting. This will make your day-to-day life less draining on you and is really the only thing you can do about your current job.

        3) make sure to carve out meaningful time for rest and recuperation. Even if you dissociate from your work, it’s still exhausting to deal with a crap job, so make sure you take time and space for your well-being. Maybe that means lots of bathroom breaks at work, maybe that means you read AAM or other websites to recalibrate your “what is normal” sensors, maybe that means working extra hard at job hunting because it feels proactive and positive, maybe that means meditating or exercising or getting massages or going to bed early. When you feel drained and just want to sit there, that can also be therapeutic, as long as you are doing what makes you feel relaxed and recharged.

        Good luck!

    19. Leela*

      I had a job that was so bad. I used to bike into work and once a car very nearly hit me. My first thought was “if it had hit me I wouldn’t have to go in today though….”

      I felt like I was getting up every morning to go get shot. Workplace abuse is a very, very serious problem.

      1. Totally Minnie*

        I had a similar experience. I went to the dentist before work one mornin and he told me I needed a root canal. My immediate response was “that’s fantastic! I don’t have to go to work today!”

        That’s when I realized how truly toxic my job had become.

    20. Not So NewReader*

      Under the heading of using a different route to get to the same point, can you ask him to help you look for a job? Maybe he can scan some ads or maybe he can put out some fishing lines for you.

      Some people cut directly to action plans. “Situation X sucks.” Other person, “Okay let’s fix it.” They don’t want the details or degree of sucky-ness.

      It sounds like he IS responding to what you are saying. Perhaps you need to say forward moving type things.

      ha! One thing that worked for me in my marriage was to say, “Let’s get your lousy situation fixed also.” Sometimes when we feel the least strong it’s our turn to lead. This can go like this in coupledom. Maybe you need to strike up the lead that you BOTH can get decent work places.

      1. MamaGanoush*

        That’s wise advice! Could your boyfriend sit down with you and help you make a plan?

    21. Upthedownstaircase*

      If you decide to stick it out —
      1. Disengage. You know how when you walk down your street there is always one neighbor whose dog goes nuts barking? It doesn’t matter who you are, what you are doing, what your intent, how fast you are walking – that dog is going to bark. Accept that at your office, that dog it going to bark.
      2. Document everything. Jobs assigned to you, deadlines, status updates, progression, any changes in direction.
      3. Communicate. Manager assigns something to you, you email her a summary of what you’ve been assigned, how you plan on approaching it, what resources you need/will use. Update her on status as the deadline approaches (and if it looks like you are going to miss it).
      4. Network with coworkers to keep apprised of each others assigned tasks and availability.

    22. neverjaunty*

      Your boyfriend sounds like he’s part of the problem. He’s MAD that you want to quit because he doesn’t like his own job? Wow.

    23. Jane of all Trades*

      Definitely not “delicate flower” – getting treated like that would take a toll on everybody! I agree with other comments that you should look at your savings, and your spending, to figure out if quitting is a possibility right now. Look at what your fixed costs are – rent, utilities, insurance, and so on. Are there things you could cut, like Starbucks trips and the like? How long will you be able to pay your bills based on this budget you have created? Hopefully you’ll be able to just quit.
      If you decide that you can’t quit right now, do you have enough vacation days that you can at least take Mondays or fridays off for the next few weeks so you can decompress a little while you save money and hunt for jobs? And also, if you can’t quit, is there anyway to lessen the impact this person has on you? Like would giving her attitude back, or just doing a stoic face l, or even saying “I am a professional and expect to be treated as such. Please yell at somebody else if you feel you need to yell” help? Sometimes with bullies like her in my experience they bully more when they see that they’re having an impact. I know it’s super hard, and it’s appalling that you’re having to go through this at all, but maybe that would help. Think of it this way – what’s the worst she can do. Possibly fire you? (But probably not even). Well you want out of there anyways, so she literally has no power over you.
      Best of luck!

    24. WalkedInYourShoes*

      Over my professional career (30+ years), I have encountered several toxic managers who made a toxic environment. So, I can empathize with you. When I was just in high school and worked an after-school job that paid $2.25 an hour, I had a manager to told me that I was lazy and did not work hard enough. My job was to transfer magazine subscriptions into written orders. She placed my desk next to the door of the bathrooms in the back room. It was awful. I was constantly berated and decided that my school work and my self-esteem shouldn’t suffer. So, I quit. In college, I worked at a prominent university where the professor to whom I reported berated me for not being able to read his illegible hand-writing as I tried to type of his minutes and notes. He had some personal issues that influenced the toxic environment. During one summer jobs back at my home town, I had an Engineering manager at one of the well-known semiconductor companies drag me by the arm through the building and yelled at me. (He was reprimanded). Then, I after college I worked for a manager who threw binders and verbally abusive when something did not go his way. I found another job within the industry, because I wanted to be a marketing manager. My manager at that time was a micro-manager, didn’t like the way I dressed, talked, etc. I was 25 while everyone’s average age was between 35-40 years old. Yes, I was let go; however, when the owner of the company who loved my work asked how I was doing, he reprimanded the manager who was immediately demoted and then, extended my old job back. Thankfully, I declined. This is where it all changed.

      I realized that I, too, had some very challenging personal issues that I did not realize transferred into my work life. I came from a bad home life where my dad was physically and verbally abusive. My boyfriends were similar to my dad, and I thought that how my dad treated me is how people should treat me. For me, I did not have a good family support system. It was very lonely and scary.

      It took about 3 months of not having a job, depression, traveling, walking alot, and doing alot of soul-searching of what is happening and how I can break the cycle. I realized that everyone has value, each person is unique, and can be a positive influence personally and professionally. So, my job search was totally different. I married someone unlike my dad who made me laugh, smile, and stands by me through good and bad.

      I started taking interviews at a temp agencies to get out of the industries that I had previous experiences: semiconductor, finance/banking, health care, insurance, retail, and food/restaurant. I interviewed at many companies. I turned down ones that reminded me of my dad and the other toxic environments (personally and professionally). After 3 months of interviewing, I landed at a great company where people were positive and supportive. My manager was super amazing! It was one of the life-changing moments where I realized that there are really good managers. This was at a well-known storage company of that “time”. One of the co-founders was my manager. He referred to me as a colleague not as one of his employees. He set the bar for my ideal manager from that time. I stayed with that company for 5+ years and had several great managers with the same values. Sadly, the dot.com bust happened and I started a young family. Personal things affected my professional life. My daughters were born with severe food allergies and one my new managers, a CEO of another well-known startup eventually acquired by another well-known company was so toxic. I didn’t realize that I was experiencing post-partum depression and commuted 1.5 hours each way to work with reporting to a manager who had major gender biases. After 3 months, he brought me into his office to say that he was letting me go because I took several months off recently. I told him that it was maternity leave. He responded that if women wanted to raise a family and have babies, that they should stay home. With that I had no option except to take a package and leave. It affected me personally and professionally. (Many employees left and those who were hired after me were miserable and eventually quit).

      I look back on it and realized how I should have filed a complaint with the EEOC. I did meet with an attorney, but I knew if I sued the company that I would be known in the area for someone creating “issues”. How times have changed!

      I took a consulting and contract role to meet my children’s growing medical needs. During these years (2003 to 2014), I continued to work as a consultant and contractor. I managed to work for great managers who were my former colleagues. All awesome! Sadly, the former colleagues who recruited me at the 1st start-up, and I no longer talk. It was a hard lesson of biases that I had experienced and learned when a toxic situation is starting.

      In 2014, I transitioned back into a full-time role. In 2016, my great manager left the company. Then, a new VP started, she was passive aggressive and would not tell you directly what she wanted. For example, she said that she was transparent and 3 months later, she hired someone above me and did not tell anyone except two people. Our entire team was blind-sided. This person was extremely narcissistic, negative, and always demeaning. Like you, I brought my concerns to the VP who would not put things in writing. Another red flag. How I knew it was time? I couldn’t sleep or eat. I cried and complained at home and never in front of anyone at work. I knew that I was a rock star and had good professional relationships with my hiring managers in all departments. So, when he said that he had complaints, I didn’t believe him. He went on and on with a laundry list that was not “positive”. I brought up my concerns. However, after 2 weeks under this new manager and constantly questioned/berated, I put in my two week notice. and note that “what goes around comes around” or if you believe in karma. That manager was eventually fired, and the group had the highest turn-over. Someone was always quitting.

      Although my husband told me that I needed a job before I quit, I called a friend and colleague where I work as a PT in the evenings to see if they need more help. They did. I continued to do consulting and continue with my job search for a FT role. I have been lucky with finding roles with former colleagues who were a positive influence.

      Here’s my 2 cents of advice: 1) life is too short; 2) remember you are a valuable person personally and professionally; 3) having health issues is not worth keeping a job, there are alternatives even if it is a temporary job; 4) notice the little and big red flags, e.g., negative words; 5) network – reach out to at least 5 people within your LinkedIn network and develop a list of all the positive accomplishments – this will help you in your job search and future roles, 5a) list down what is your ideal role, company, team, manager, etc.; 6) Find a positive support “circle” like this site, go back to someone of whom you think highly and give you positive feedback; 7) don’t give up hope in finding a job; 8) you’re almost there; 9) people who are negative and treat others unfairly will always be like that and never change. (those are my personal experiences)

  8. The Other Dawn*

    It was announced this week that my company is being sold, which was definitely unexpected. It’s been a pretty sad week for everyone, as most employees are long-timers and just about everyone in general loves working here; it’s a great culture, management cares, we don’t have slackers, and it’s just a great place to work.

    So, I find myself in the position, again, of having to figure out what I want to do next. I was a ‘Jill of all trades’ at my first company; unfortunately it went out of business after 18 years. I then had to figure out what I wanted to do since I have a variety of skills and could go in any direction, mostly, within the industry. I ended up picking a job I absolutely hated. Everything about it was wrong: the boss (most especially—micromanager, rigid personality, condescending…), the culture, the job itself. In less than a year I moved on to my current job, which I really like. I have a better idea of what I want now, but I’m still feeling like I really could go in a few different directions.

    Onto the issue. We have not yet been told what our future will look like with the new company, but it’s well known that anyone in my type of work would need to commute about 35 miles to their center of operations. The alternative is taking a job, if offered, in something totally different, but close by. We’re in limbo for a while, but hopefully only for a couple weeks. We’re all thinking, do we hold out to see what we’ll get or do we jump ship now if something comes up? Forego severance in favor of job security? I do want to hold out to see what they say, since I think that’s the smart thing to do. But, a position came up and I have to admit it’s very attractive to me because the salary is 30k more than I make now and it would allow me to aggressively pay down my debt. Also, it’s a much smaller company, which I miss. BUT…it’s an hour each way without traffic and it contains elements of that previous job I hated. I’m trying hard to figure out if I didn’t have the boss I had when I had that job, would those elements have been OK with me? I’m thinking it was 75% the boss, and 25% the content of the job. Also I would be back in the position if having a very small amount of people to get a lot done.

    I’m thinking I’ll make a list of all the things I like about this job, the things I like in general vs. what I don’t like now and in general. Maybe that will help me figure this out.

    Any tips?

    1. SophieChotek*

      Have you applied for the other position? It seems like it might be worth applying?

      I was also going to ask (similar to what Alison said yesterday with the freelancer), but then you mentioned, debt: if you stay (hoping for job security) — does that mean you lose severence if there is no job in the end?

      Would you be okay for X months (even with debt) if you feel this concerned about other job prospect and the aspects you don’t like? Can you be “picky” and apply for other jobs?

      Are there other jobs in your industry in your geographic region?

      I guess those are my first questions. Sorry no tips! I am sorry this is happening! Especially when its a job you love — that sounds like the worst.

      1. The Other Dawn*

        No I haven’t applied. I’m trying to wait and see what we’re told in the next couple weeks before I do that. The closing of the sale and subsequent conversion won’t happen for several months. If I’m not given a job offer I assume I’d get some sort of severance as long as I stay until the end. I could afford to be picky right now, but probably not in a few months time. There aren’t a lot of jobs that open up in my area for what I do.

        1. Artemesia*

          I went through a merger where whole departments were cut. The people who saw the handwriting on the wall and moved quickly got the good jobs. The people who hung around waiting to see what was going to happen ended up in a market for jobs already mined by those who moved quickly. They did a lot worse. In your position I would be aggressively job searching. You dn’t have to take a new position but you are likely to be better off in the long run if you find out what is out there and move if there is a good opportunity. There would have to be huge severance to make it worth waiting around for the shoe to drop for.

          1. Lora*

            +1. Survived mergers, takeovers, etc. If the severance isn’t at least 3-6 months, heck it, not worth it. Only time I ever saw a reason to stick it out was when a company was offering a minimum 6 months severance + 1 month for every year you’d worked for the company. The old timers retired early, others got their next gig lined up and volunteered to be laid off so the VP/Directors wouldn’t have to pick and choose who to lay off (which was appreciated, it sucks having to let people go).

    2. Shannon*

      I went through a similar sale last year. People left, people stayed, people were laid off, a lot of restructuring was done (more than one person was essentially demoted). It was a bit of chaos. I kept saying to people “you have to do what’s best for you”. If you want to wait and see what happens, go for it. If a good opportunity comes along, go for it.
      What if you looked at the new job outside of what is happening at your company. Would you leave your current job for it?

      1. The Other Dawn*

        Would I leave if I wasn’t going through this? Hmm. I’m thinking not since I’m happy where I am. I guess if I wasn’t happy here, it would be considered but I’d definitely be trying to get something closer in distance and closer to my current job.

    3. SpaceNovice*

      I would say apply. Even if you decide it’s not a good position, the process will help you determine what you don’t like about it and help you narrow your focus down. You’ll get practice with interviewing, too. At worst, they don’t interview you and you don’t have a lot of time lost.

    4. CAA*

      I think you should apply for the new job. Likely by the time they get around to making an offer you’ll know more about your current position and how it might be changing and can make a more informed decision as to whether to accept or decline. In the best of both worlds, you might get an offer that’ll pay you $30K more and be able to work the start date so that you can get severance from the old company too.

      Either way, stay or go, it sounds like you’ll have to deal with a longer commute. That does suck.

    5. 13 days left @ toxic job*

      I was in a very similar situation two years, my work shut down and I ended up taking a far away job that was close to what I was doing, for more money, but with elements of work I didn’t love. The job actually didn’t end up being bad at all, it was more the commute that made it completely unsustainable. Even the elements of the job I didn’t love weren’t so bad, but that was less because of a change in bosses and more because the workload was lighter at the second job.

      This is all to say, consider commute really carefully. It can make an otherwise great job really awful.

      1. The Other Dawn*

        The one good thing about this commute is that it’s to a quiet corner of the state, against traffic, and I wouldn’t be hitting the “problem” highways. But that area also gets a lot of snow, which would be difficult I’m the winter.

        2. TardyTardis*

          Studded tires are your friend if your state allows you to run with them. Snow isn’t anywhere as bad as say, black ice to drive on (with studded tires).

    6. Surrogate Tongue Pop*

      Re: In limbo, it’s usually more than a couple weeks. I’ve been through several merger/acquisitions, and at my current company, we closed the deal in December, it’s nearly end of June and we’re still in limbo about jobs. We know we have jobs, but in my company (which got acquired), we are still in the dark about how we fit into new company job families, whether or not our salaries will be affected, what benefits we will be on in 2019, and so forth. I went from being Jill of All Trades, to quasi Jill of All Trades (for now) and we won’t have a feeling of being settled probably for another year.

      I wish you all the best, being part of a merger/acquisition is never fun and causes lots of internal thoughts and scenarios.

    7. New Job So Much Better*

      Ugh, I feel for you. After 18 years at my last job, the company was taken over in a merger and everything changed. Luckily I found something much better before deciding to leave. I love your idea of making a pros and cons list. Good luck!

    8. Not So NewReader*

      You can apply for the job and say no later. But the problem is you could have applied for a job that you would say yes to later.

      My vote is no, do not apply for this job. Two hours of drive time is mind-wearing. After a year or two your mental endurance will not be where it is now, because of all that driving. You are saying there are elements you don’t like. Combine that with fatigue from all. that. driving and you have a bad mix. The extra money could end up getting used for car care and health care because of this job.

      Look for jobs that you are sincerely interested in, put your time into applying for those. Applying for jobs is a huge time suck especially if we are working full time. Make all your minutes count toward something. Not much different than budgeting and being deliberate about handling money. Handle time with the same forethought and discernment.

      1. The Other Dawn*

        Yeah, I’m leaning towards not applying. After seeing the job description, thinking about it a lot more, talking to a few people that are familiar with the company, and just noticing a little while ago that the position has been vacant for quite a while, I think I’ll pass. The thought of applying for it doesn’t excite me, which is a big red flag for me. And I’ve had the long commute + hating the job, and I basically cried everyday until I found a new job. I don’t want to get back into that again.

        I’m looking at job postings everyday to see what’s out there, so if I find something more to my liking I’ll apply.

    9. ..Kat..*

      You are looking, which is good. At this point in your search, because you are searching early, you can be pickier about what job you would accept.

      I would recommend cutting expenses as much as possible so that you have more of a money cushion – in case you need it.

      Also, if you are in the USA and have employer based health insurance, get all of the maintenance healthcare that you can while you still have good insurance.

      Good luck. I am sorry that you are having to deal with this.

  9. Justin*

    Just a nice moment. My job has very longterm projects, and accordingly I’ve only really had two since I got promoted last fall. Finally coming to a point of getting feedback on a major submission and received glowing remarks. More importantly, with my anxiety issues, the parts of the submission I was slightly concerned about were indeed the parts on which they offered constructive criticism, helping me trust that my instincts match reality more specifically.

    So i got this goin for me, which is nice.

    1. SpaceNovice*

      A great moment! I’m glad for you. The trusting your instincts thing is hard on me, too, but I’m realizing they’re getting honed to be right as well. I hope things keep on going well for you!

        1. SpaceNovice*

          It’s extremely difficult, especially when you’ve got a boss that gaslights you due to lack of understanding the problem. And thank you!

    2. Catalin*

      YEAH! WOO! Get it!! It is SO HARD to work on these types of projects with such limited feedback, and you NAILED it. Congrats!!!

      1. Justin*

        Yeah. I get plenty of incremental feedback that sometimes make me hesitant, but knowing it is all combining into a well-received whole is huge.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      My wise friend use to talk about worrying for the sake of worrying versus worry that happens for a reason. One thing he said we all should do is pay attention to our gut. We are supposed to be intuitive and we are supposed to be able to logically deduce what is coming up next. This is necessary for our survival and quality of life.

      He said when we encounter a worry we should take extra notice of how we feel. Compare those feelings to the feelings that we had the last time we were worried and we were CORRECT about the worry. By learning when we are apt to be correct, we can start to intervene in the unfolding concern and take action steps. In your example here that could mean reviewing our work or asking a mentor type person for inputs.

      I used to worry about leaving the coffee pot on at home. There were days when that was just worry for the sake of worry. But the few days I did forget the feeling came over me, “No, I actually DID leave the coffee pot on.” I went back and sure enough, it was still on. It takes time and practice to figure out when a worry has actual basis.

    4. Lora*

      “So i got this goin for me, which is nice.”

      I read this in Bill Murray’s Caddyshack voice.

    6. ..Kat..*

      Constructive criticism is the best. They like you and want you to succeed and are telling you how to succeed.

  10. T3k*

    So, I’m a bit stuck between a rock and a hard place and wanted people’s opinions on this.

    For background, my last job I finally broke into the industry I wanted to be in. The kicker is it was only 6 months contract, so I’m stuck once more trying to find the same position elsewhere to continue. I’ve had several interviews related to the job, but no offers. Now here’s my issue: I’ve come across a few more positions but they’re at terrible companies. As in, they made the news in the industry within the past couple years of being bad, laying off employees, overworked, even employees commenting things like “don’t take unless you’re desperate”.

    So, my question is, should I even bother applying for these positions? I really need more experience (at least a solid year if not two) but is it worth it at terrible companies? Or should I just look for non-related jobs in the meantime and just hope I can break back into it later? (the job has skills that can carry over to non-industry jobs, but ideally they like people with experience in their field).

    1. Nita*

      It really depends on how hard it is to break back into the field once you’ve left it – maybe co-workers, or anyone in the same field, can give advice on that? However, if it looks like you can make a sideways move and then get back in, toxic jobs are 100% not worth the strain on one’s mental (and sometimes physical) health. They can totally mess with your life outside of work too. And if you can’t make the sideways move and the toxic jobs seem like your only option, take a hard look at whether staying in the industry at all is worth it to you.

      1. SophieChotek*

        Yes, I was thinking a similar thing.

        You do have had several interview with other companies (not the toxic one), so that sounds really good, even if you aren’t at an offer stage yet.

        Like Alison said yesterday with the freelancer, can you afford to not work for a few months, versus taking toxic job.

        Since I don’t know what industry you are in and I understand you’re coming off a 6 month contract, but are there other opportunities in the industry where you coudl keep your foot in, but not work at toxic job. (Like if this was “writing or editing”, literally an editing job/write this article that will only be a week’s worth of work, while also working the non-industry job) sort of thing.

        Sorry I don’t know…but maybe all my unhelpful comments can help point you to a better idea!

        1. T3k*

          I could last several more months, but I get rather antsy without a job (entered the workforce during the recession, so my work history is pretty spotty with unemployment periods).

          Eh, yes and no. It’s easier to move sideways if you’re still within the company, but when my contract was ending there wasn’t anything else available that I qualified for (I did talk to HR about one very similar position but never heard back from them while I was still there or since).

          And thanks for the comments :) I’ve been feeling like I suck at this but at least I have gotten several interviews (at nicer companies) during the past several months so at least that’s good sign.

    2. cajun2core*

      Apply for the jobs. I regret not accepting a job offer I had that would have gotten me back into the industry I want to be in. The job had a number of red-flags. I am still in a dead-end job that I hate because I did not take that job.

    3. June*

      I think it depends on the type of terribleness and what you know you can handle. For instance, I do okay with being overworked, but I have a harder time with difficult personalities. I would take your potential positives (gaining experience, staying in the field, and networking) and weigh them against the negatives that you’re going to have a hard time with personally.

  11. SophieChotek*

    I had my first interview last Friday after year of searching and applying. I still don’t know the results, but I don’t feel like the interview was a complete disaster. They did ask for my references, so that might be a good sign. Even if I don’t get the job, the fact that I finally got an interview was encouraging. And even though it wasn’t one of those “amazing” interviews, I felt so much less nervous than I might otherwise have been because I read and re-read Allison’s Interview guide.

      1. SophieChotek*

        Thanks. And that is what I a telling myself a year+ without an interview…if nothing else, this was good practice and hopefully I can go into another interview with more confidence.

    2. Ali G*

      Yay! Sounds promising! Right there with you. Been searching since January and I just found out yesterday I have a phone interview on Tuesday! So excited. It’s only my second phone interview in my whole search. I have yet to wear the new suit I bought for interviews :/
      Good luck to you!!

    3. nep*

      Great that you got the interview. Well done–and way to persevere. Keep us posted.
      Wishing you all the best.

  12. MLIS Career Advice?*

    I have a MLIS (research and resources specialization) and I’d like to pivot into user research/design research. If you did this, can you share how?

    1. SE-No*

      There is a whole lot of bad advice/misunderstanding of what UX research actually is. My wife’s a UX researcher and I could ask her for some direction? She graduated from a school that is internationally renowned for her program and really learned a lot in her Master’s studies.

      I know that her main focus with research includes a lot of workshops/diary studies/interviews, and focus on talking to customer’s and then incorporating that knowledge into her companies digital products.

    2. ux-adjacent*

      I’m in a UX-focused office where we’re looking for someone who can be a sort of technical librarian/document strategist. Your background sounds exactly like what was discussed during strategy meetings for writing the posting. (I’m not convinced the listing accurately captures the discussions, but it’s a weird market niche where I don’t know if there’s a generally accepted industry title?)

      anyway, I listed the posting as my website so you should be able to click through if that sounds intriguing

  13. Anonymous Educator*

    For those of you who have been involved in hiring (even if you weren’t on the hiring committee or the actual hiring manager), can you share a time you hired a candidate who looked good on paper (or even was a great interviewee) who turned out to be a dud? Or a time when you took a risk on someone who didn’t look good on paper or didn’t impress in the interview but ended up being a great employee?

    1. AdAgencyChick*

      Hiring is hard. REALLY hard. And hence, I have examples on both sides!

      I once hired someone who wanted to transition into a junior copywriting role from having been in HR. This is not a typical transition, and he had taken some initiative to put together a small portfolio — of conceptual ideas, though, not fully written materials (visuals and slogans, not, say, a brochure).

      I was really impressed by his initiative in putting together a portfolio and by the way he presented himself in the interview — more confident and articulate than I typically see in candidates for a very junior position. So I hired him without making him take a copywriting test. Turns out he was articulate in speech, but not in writing. When he had to compose anything more complicated than a headline, he floundered. I felt awful when I had to fire him.

      On the other hand, a few years before that I had been interviewing two candidates, again for a fairly junior role, and it would have been a career change for both of them. One of the candidates really impressed me with her interview skills; the other was really reticent. I wanted to hire the first candidate, but my direct report wanted the second. Since my direct report would be her direct manager, I let her make the call. The second candidate turned out to be stellar — hard worker, super conscientious, organized, and super pleasant to work with. (The shyness was real, though; she was always one of our quieter employees and although she was too junior to be involved in a lot of client presentations when I worked with her, I assume she’s had to work through that as she’s advanced in her career.)

    2. anon for this one*

      I’m not a manager but I’ve been on many interview committees.

      For the candidate who looked good on paper… he turned out to be a blatant racist. And when your racism comes out during a job interview, when no questions naturally led that way at all, it’s pretty bad.

      For the risk… we had a candidate who was okay on paper, but not outstanding. However, she had a really great letter of recommendation, so we interviewed her based on that. She turned out to be a great interview and a great employee, but I guess that doesn’t really fit your criteria for this one.

      1. DCGirl*

        I wasn’t the hiring manager for this one, but…

        Two jobs ago, I started on the same day as another team member. I was hired as a Senior Teapot Marketing Specialist; he was hired as Teapot Marketing Specialist. From Day One, that frosted his cookies and he told me repeatedly that he was not hired at the higher level/salary because he 1) announced he was gay during the first week and/or 2) a minority group member. I found him going through my desk one day trying to find my offer letter for evidence for his EEOC complaint. The fact was that he had no experience in marketing but was hired because our manager thought he had transferrable skills and was trainable. Sweet fancy Moses, was she ever wrong.

        He was always telling us that he had great IT skills. While the position didn’t require them, they were certainly a plus, and he was always asking for assignments tailored to his skills. One day, he owed another team member inputs for a deadline-sensitive client deliverable. He said his computer was down (the screen was black) and was waiting for IT. He then proceeded to pull out a magazine, put his feet on his desk, and read about the latest men’s fashions while waiting for IT. I happened to walk by his cube and saw a loose cable near his computer out of the corner of my eye. I asked him if it could possibly be related to his IT issue. No, no, no — he knew IT and he knew it wasn’t. I asked if he was really sure. Yes, yes, yes — he was an expert.

        The other team member was almost apoplectic waiting for his inputs, because IT Expert Guy was days overdue. I asked a third time if he was sure that loose cable was not the source of the problem. No, no, no — of course. So, I got down on my hands and knees, crawled under his outstretched legs which were still propped on his desk, and plugged the cable for his monitor back into his hard drive. His screen immediately blazed to life.

        He made tons of mistakes and, what was worse, was completely incapable of learning from them. Every time he was called into a meeting with our manager to discuss his mistakes, he would immediately go home saying that he was feeling unwell and call in sick the next day. It got to the point where, if he didn’t come in in the morning, we’d all wonder what he’d done this time.

        It took nine months to document and fire him. When we cleaned out his desk, we found a notebook with his enemies list (I was #1). I periodically google him just to make sure I don’t ever change jobs to a place where he might be working, and found his Twitter, in which he is still ranting about all the people who’ve discriminated against ten years later.

    3. Another Anonymous Educator*

      Oh my god YES.

      (Note: I’m changing my user name for this because my colleagues know I read and comment regularly here.)

      I was on the hiring committee to find a teacher to replace me. It was a foreign language position so my role was to assess the candidates’ speaking skills. We hired someone who was amazing on paper: lots of references, great references, had lots of ideas about extra-curricular, etc.

      She was a disaster. She didn’t respect the chain of command so ended up going to the superintendent a lot and bypassing colleagues and administrators, which is not a thing that is done. She took a ton of sick time and never left sub plans. She said the workload was too heavy and she kept asking for paid days off to do marking (just an fyi, the workload for MFL is often heavy because the teacher is often the ONLY teacher in the school doing that job — when I did it, I had over 300 students and I taught 13 separate classes). She actively undermined other staff to the students. And when she left, she literally snuck out like a thief in the night — one morning we got to school to find her classroom empty and her keys in the principal’s mailbox. I had lent her lots of my resources to use; she took them, too.

      I’ve kept an eye on her over the years. She has never lasted more than a year at a school since, which for an MFL teacher is frightening — there are so few of us, we’re worth our weight in gold, basically.

      1. Muriel Heslop*

        I feel like this happens a lot in education (not those specifics, obviously.) As SPED department head, I manage the hiring committee for our department and sit on the hiring committee for most of the other departments.
        We moved to the group interview on campus (following a screening interview) in hopes to weed out the duds. The district was sending us “great resumes” but teaching is definitely not a field where high GPA necssarily translates to superior job performance. We ask a questions about troubleshooting skills, empathy, teamwork and other intangibles that help us get to know a person. We have also started asking for a practice class to be taught if possible. Our school is *sort of* desirable in a *very* desirable location/city so we get more candidates than we can hire so we can get people who will participate in this, but it’s not always an option for us.

        Good luck!

        1. Another Anonymous Educator*

          That is so true. Being with it and being able to manage people is, in a lot of ways, way more important than subject knowledge. That can be taught and a good teacher will take the time to learn it. But it doesn’t matter if you have a PhD in biology or whatever; if you can’t manage kids, talk to parents, and work within a school’s culture, that PhD isn’t worth anything.

      2. TardyTardis*

        My husband’s school had a Special Ed teacher who was taken away by the cops. See, she was on some serious pain meds, and not only did she have one of her students go down to pick up them up at the pharmacy, she kindly offered them around to students who said they were in pain. That one got headlines.

        1. Another Anonymous Educator*

          WHOA. At least ours just left! To my knowledge she was not dealing drugs.

      3. sheep jump death match*

        I gasped out loud at “going to the superintendent a lot.” I can’t even imagine.

        2. Another Anonymous Educator*

          Yes, it was awful and so annoying. Something would happen, she would not get her way, and next thing we knew, we’d see her in his office. Usually crying. Then an hour later she’d be in the hall all smug. (Although to be fair, he was part of the problem. He shouldn’t have entertained that nonsense.)

      4. Julianne (also a teacher)*

        My specialty is adjacent to MFL, and it is challenging to find people for roles in my department who simultaneously (a) are competent at teaching in this specialty, and (b) actually want to teach in this specialty. We thought we got lucky when we hired someone who had actually taught in this specialty for a LOA coverage position…until she’d been there a week and we discovered that her previous experience had apparently endowed her with ZERO pedagogical or management skills. She is literally the worst teacher I have ever worked with, and although we have not discussed my being a reference for her for the future, I know that if I am ever contacted regarding her candidacy I must speak truthfully. She is just unbelievably awful, yet on paper she looked okay.

      5. Foreign Language Teacher*

        I had a very similar experience. I was also on a hiring committee for a MFL teacher. This lady looked amazing on paper, interviewed extremely well, and had, to quote my vice principal, “glowing references.” We were all so excited to have her join our faculty. Then, we found out that she could not teach. She was disorganized, had zero classroom management skills, was always weeks, or even months behind on grading, did not understand how to use our online grade book after being trained repeatedly. It was a nightmare. Furthermore, she could not/ would be coached. When we tried to help her,
        she would say that she understood, then she would continue doing exactly the same things she had been doing.
        Sometimes I still think back to her interview and think, wow, we really got fooled. Big time.

        1. Windchime*

          I’m not a manager, but I’ve been on lots of interview committees. I can usually spot a bullshitter from a mile away, but our whole committee was fooled by an internal candidate. She presented herself well and interviewed very, very well. We were thrilled to hire her as a business analyst. Well. As it turns out, she had been run out of every department she’d ever worked in at our company. All of her internal transfers should have been a huge red flag to us, but it didn’t occur to any of us that it was more than what she said (“I like variety”). When she was later promoted to manager, she became a tyrant and was eventually fired. It’s still odd to me, because she interviewed really well.

      6. TA turned office drone*

        The superintendent?!?! Did she know her/him and was trying to take advantage of that? Or was she basically just harassing his /her office?

        1. Another Anonymous Educator*

          No, she didn’t know him. He happens to have an office in our school and he’s the final authority. So when she didn’t get her way, she went literally crying to him.

          He’s part of the problem, though. He should have sent her packing the first time she tried it.

    4. Llamarama (Ding Dong)*

      I called a guy in for an interview solely because there was a joke in our ad and he was the only one who made a related joke in his cover letter. He didn’t have any of the skills I normally look for, and his degree wasn’t one we normally hire (it was for an entry-level position, and we could train people to do what we needed so the skills weren’t MUST haves, just what had worked well in the past). He came in for an interview and blew us away. Our COO asked me to make him an offer asap.

      He almost immediately surpassed everyone else in the department and was quickly promoted up the chain. If you looked blindly at the job we do and the backgrounds of the people in the department, you would never expect that he would do so well. I was always immensely grateful that he wrote that cover letter.

    5. Tea, please*

      OMG, so many stories. Most recently, I ran a summer academic camp that and hired 50+ staff. Since it is a summer program, activities had to be high engagement. We provided some projects to the teaching staff, but most of the teachers wanted to use the summer to try out new projects and teaching techniques, and we provided instructional coaches to support the teachers. I learned A LOT.
      One person I hired, I interviewed along with a 40+ year teaching and admin vet. We were so excited about him. He had amazing recommendation letters (standard in education) from a colleague, parent, and principal. Before he was a teacher, he was an actor and was very engaging in the interview. He was able to describe really rigorous academic projects that he did with his students. He checked a lot of boxes. But when the program started, he was abysmal and had the program been longer than 5 weeks and I had more experience managing, I would have fired him. He wouldn’t make eye contact with the students. He only gave them worksheets. His exuded discomfort. Frankly, I think he was racist. The camp served a large minority population from an urban area. He was a learning experience for me–The next summer I made sure I had a backup staff member I could use in a classroom in case I made a bad hire again.
      The next summer, I had a teacher who was a bit of a risk, but was one of my best teachers in the years I ran the program. I was a little concerned in the interview whether he understood what a good project looked like, but I hired him because he was from an immigrant group that was highly represented by the students in the program but underrepresented in the classroom staff. Since we had academic coaches on staff, I knew we could support him with the content. His references spoke very highly of his ability to mentor students. This is ultimately why I hired him. His class was always calm, he did amazing projects, and his kids made the most growth of any year in that subject.

    6. LibraryBug*

      I mostly hired student employees (in college) though I was on some committees for full-time staff as well.

      Before we revamped the questions and interview process, I got a lot of students who knew the “right” answers to generic interview questions but didn’t have any motivation or drive to work once they were hired. They saw the job as “easy” and slacked off.

      On the other side of the coin: I pushed really, really hard to hire a graduate student who had no work experience and a BS that was completely irrelevant to the work. She wrote an amazing cover letter that showed she actually researched the position (didn’t write “I love being surrounded by books” or similar) and gave me points about how her schoolwork and characteristics would fit. My hiring team was on the fence but I got my way. She was *amazing*, incredibly dedicated, hardworking, and wanted to understand more about her job and the way the department worked.

    7. Nita*

      Not me, but this happened to a relative who’s a programmer. As far as I gather, it was a technical interview, but with no actual technical skills test (it’s state work and I guess their hiring process is a bit behind the times). The guy sounded good, his resume looked good, and when he got hired it turned out he was lying on his resume. Heaven knows how he passed the interview, probably just memorized a lot of stuff, but he could barely write code and he wasn’t picking it up from co-workers who were trying to help.

      1. Windchime*

        Oh, we had this guy, too! There was a coding exercise, though, and he turned in a bunch of code that was somehow machine generated. Like it still had all of these weird comment blocks that indicated it was not written by a person (I don’t remember the details). I was 100% thumbs-down on this guy, but others didn’t seem to mind that he didn’t really write his code. We ended up not hiring him, but seriously guys–WTF? We were hiring for a coder!
        Another hire was a woman who was to be a contractor for a a few months, just to help out writing a module for a larger project. She had an unusual first and last name, and a project manager recognized her as someone who he had worked with previously. He’d had to kick her off his project because she was lazy and incompetent. Well, our company hired her anyway. Whenever she was asked to check in her code, she would say she was still testing and would be ready soon. Near the end of the engagement, she finally checked in her code and had done basically nothing over the past months. Like just a few lines. The development team pulled an all-weekender and did the work that she was supposed to have done over months. It was a fiasco.

    8. savethedramaforyourllama*

      HR person here – we made what we thought was a great hire a little over a year ago. Well we started to notice that her “drama level” was higher than average. Ok, but her work is good. And then she went FULL BANANA CRACKERS – lying, stories, manipulation. I think she had a major change in her personal life which caused all of this. Luckily, we managed the situation in such a way she quit on her own and we didn’t have to terminate (although we probably could have)

      1. Llama Wrangler*

        Yeah, my bad experience was similar — someone who was good on paper, had strong interviews and references, but went increasingly off the rails once she was hired. This was a short, seasonal position and luckily most of the drama came at the very end and we could just note to not rehire her.

        On the flip side, because I work with a lot of entry level applicants, I’ve definitely had people blow me away either in interviews or once they’ve started where their materials didn’t reflect it. If I’m on the fence, however, references have almost always convinced me whether to take the risk or not.

    9. EA in CA*

      We once hired a lady on a one year contract for a maternity leave coverage (we’re in Canada). She was great on paper, interview well, and checked off all the boxes during the reference checks. She shows up for her second day, went out for lunch and never came back. We called her cell, her home number, and finally resorted to her emergency contact. When she finally got back to us, she said she found the work too stressful (literally, all she had trained on was the basics of the general ledger, and the AP process with a couple hours of learning the filing system).

      The second lady we hired lasted all of 81 days until it was discovered through a social connection of my boss that this lady was notorious for trying to sue her companies for discrimination or harassment if ever she didn’t get her way, didn’t like a task or responsibility, and wanted to do the very bare minimum expected of her. On paper she looked wonderful, had all the right experience for the role, and had great references (found out they where false, most were friends or family playing a role). She moved industries because of the bad reputation she had gotten.

      1. New Job So Much Better*

        Similar story–hired a young woman and gave her a manual to leaf through on her first day, because I didn’t have work for her to start on. She lasted about an hour, said she was going to her car for cough drops, and never returned. When I finally heard from her a few days later, she said the manual had overwhelmed her and she was afraid she couldn’t do the job.

        1. TheCupcakeCounter*

          That happened to my coworker 3 times when trying to get a temp for an AR assistant position. First person lasted an hour, second was here most of the week but apparently had called the temp agency after her first day and asked for a different assignment while still showing up until that assignment came through, and the third simply didn’t show up the second day.
          Finally for approval for an FTE position and got a great person.

    10. NicoleK*

      Several jobs ago, Big Boss brought someone onto the team. Big Boss was really impressed by her resume and initial interview. I wasn’t that impressed and opposed the hiring. New team member was a major bust. She only worked on her pet projects, carried on as if she knew more than her coworkers, and was only interested in creating her own department. She lasted 9 months before being let go.

    11. OtterB*

      The candidate looked okay on paper but not great. I had some doubts about his technical skills, although he had just completed a relevant degree. It’s been some time, so I’ve forgotten the details. But I remember sitting in the conference room going back and forth talking about the candidates and saying, “The heck with it. I really liked him. Let’s go for it.” His technical skills were fine, and his interpersonal skills made a major contribution to the success of a crucial project. He moved on to another employer several years ago – we’re a small organization and don’t really have much in the way of growth path to offer – but he stopped in a few months ago to say hi.

    12. Bea*

      I got my first long term job with very little on paper and at 22, my interview skills sucked.

      I stayed for over 10 years and took over 85% of the operations duties in the end. So I was a good bet they took.

      I’ve had numerous people who look great on paper and they couldn’t even do the simplistic tasks like data entry and counting inventory. I had someone who didn’t understand how I knew something was a 2×4 and 4×4 in lumber. Sigh.

      1. As Close As Breakfast*

        We had a bad hire that was completely flummoxed by all things inventory. I attempted to explain, on multiple occasions, why the inventory system count going negative was a sign that something was wrong and she needed to go figure it out. Like, she absolutely could not understand that a negative number was impossible or why. “You can’t have a negative amount of something, like, you can’t have less than no o-rings” just went in one ear, bounced around a bit and flew out the other ear. I’m confident she still didn’t get it when she was let go about 6 months after she started.

    13. Ali G*

      I have one of each.
      First woman we hired as a communications coordinator. It was an admin position, but specific to communications and also had a lot of program management too. She was recommended to us after interning at the PR firm we worked with. She had a great resume, interviewed really well and everyone liked her. She was a disaster. She spent more time in J-date than working, had major meltdowns over doing her actual job, but the worst was when she turned her work phone off and wouldn’t answer emails over the weekend. She was responsible for sending our exhibit materials to tradeshows and one of our staff had one that started on a Saturday. The materials never arrived. We called both her phones, sent emails, texts, even called her parents. She never responded. She was fired shortly after.
      The good one: One year we had a big announcement going out right after the new year. Over Christmas, our Office Manager ended up going into premature labor and having her baby at just 29 weeks. She was 3 hours away at her parents place and her baby was too small and in the NICU so she could not come back. We needed temp help – bad. We ended up taking a chance on a women that had a major in music (not even tangentially related to our field) and was a recent grad. She was a rockstar. This was about 9 years ago. She is now the full time Office Manager, and is also the staff liaison for HR and Accounting (they are outsourced). Overall, she is probably one of the best hires of my life.
      PS – the baby was fine and is a total bruiser now (along with his little sis).

    14. Jady*

      We had a disastrous new hire. He looked great on paper, great personality, very friendly, and when he was in the office he did great work!

      Well… pretty soon after being hired, he started having serious medical issues – seizures, allergic reactions to medications, even in a coma! And his physical appearance reflected some of this. Everyone felt awful for him. He was out of work spontaneously, and would be out for weeks, and no one could get hold of him or his emergency numbers. Since he was brand new, he wasn’t eligible for FMLA (as far as I understood it). Obviously all that caused issues at work where he was just gone and no one knew when he would be back.

      After months of this going on, it was discovered he was actually just an alcoholic. He got friendly with another coworker who was offering to help him out since he didn’t have many resources. That coworker realized pretty quickly what was going on.

      I don’t know the details of what HR knew and when. The guy was fired pretty shortly after.

      The worst part was before that hire, we were a very lax environment. Our boss was remote and just trusted us all to do our jobs, and that had worked fine for years. After this, HR cracked down on management monitoring their employees. We now have a department “lead” who monitor us and track our comings and goings and hours and absences and projects etc.

      1. Another Anonymous Educator*

        Yeah, that’s often a reaction. Since disaster teacher left, our school has become way more strict about what they expect from us. One person literally ruined it for everyone.

    15. Persimmons*

      I was on a team that hired the candidate with over a decade more experience than the second choice. He was looking to downshift into a junior role prior to retiring, and people were falling all over themselves to get this titan of industry.

      He turned out to be a condescending windbag who refused to take instruction or do things “the Teapot Inc. way” because he knew best. People were redoing his work because he outright rejected company guidelines. He was a collage of the worst stereotypes of his generation–he called our boss “little lady”. It was six long months before they managed to eliminate his position.

    16. Lindsay Gee*

      I once interviewed a girl for a customer service position at a campground. Slightly more complicated than fast food because we had a semi-complicated booking system. Girl seemed smart, SUPER bright and bubbly and totally tanked at the job. Think ‘valley girl’- super nice, but always made mistakes, even when corrected 100x, patiently retraining her etc etc. We really liked this girl and put her in a different role (interactive children’s programming in the forest) and she was a SUPERSTAR. Dumb as a post when it came to computers, math, money, basic admin work but just excelled in a different area. She was a happy case. We had lots of other people who were actually decent at their jobs, even excellent, but were so rude or nasty to customers and management we had to let them go. Honestly 10/10 i would always pick the person who had room to grow and was a positive, good person over someone who can do the job but is nasty, mean, gosspiy or won’t take direction well.

    17. Other Duties As Assigned*

      Ugh yes. We hired a candidate for an entry level position who came in with incredible experience. Her background included many of the duties in our position, but she also had advanced experience managing teams. I was concerned about her being overqualified or feeling underutilized in the position, but she insisted that she was looking for a more low key position as she was a new mom. Her competencies proved excellent, but her interpersonal skills and fit in the organization were terrible. Her dissatisfaction with management and interpersonal dramas put a dark cloud over our whole office, so much so that I almost quit. I didn’t realize until after she left that the unhappiness I felt was from internalizing her gripes. In retrospect, we should have dealt with it more proactively when the issues first cropped up.

      This experience taught me to focus more on interpersonal skills and general demeanor for entry level positions where the tasks can be taught. We have a new person in the role who has a much bigger learning curve, but comes to it with so much positivity and eagerness that I love coming to work again.

    18. Not So NewReader*

      Watch out for people who look great on paper but spend the interview looking for your approval. Why is a would a confident over achiever be excessively seeking approval? Just food for thought.

      1. tangerineRose*

        I tend to be an over-achiever who seeks approval more than I probably should. Then again, I usually try to at least mostly hide my need for approval.

    19. Jane of all Trades*

      Oh I love this question!
      One person I interviewed for a staff accountant position – she seemed like a great fit. A lot of experience in one area, wanting to transition into a second area, we were looking for somebody who could help out in her area of expertise and interested in growing into the second, and with language skills that matched our client basis. Perfect! When interviewed her I asked her some substantive questions about specific things that she would need to be working on, and – fantastic – she had experience in all of them. She also seemed really sweet, so my only concern was that she would be too sweet for our office (we had some bullies / drama ppl working for us at the time, thankfully they have all left).
      She was a total disaster. There is no way she had ever done half of the things she claimed to be knowledgeable in, which was a challenge in itself, but she was unfriendly in a scary / unhinged sort of way. She would do weird things like get really mad about not being invited to a planning meeting the partners were having (she was far from being a partner, and nobody else was invited, so it’s unclear why this upset her), lecturing me about the order we should be wishing each other a good morning when coming into the office (apparently I needed to go first, and she was upset at having had to wish me a good morning first the previous few days), and other super bizarre things. Unfortunately she also smelled pretty strongly but would come really close when asking questions. I have personal space issues as it is, and she would always come so close that at some point I had to tell her that she was standing too close to me, which did not help. Thankfully she resigned after six weeks. Her name still sometimes comes up when we trade war stories in the office.
      One of our great hires I was not involved in interviewing, but must have been one of those instances somebody took a chance. He definitely did not have the standard career path for our industry, rather, he worked in his parents grocery store for at least 10 years after high school, then went to college for his accounting degree. So he did not have any relevant experience when he started, and did not have any preferred language skills either. But he clearly has a talent for what we do, and is such a delight to work with. So I’m really great somebody saw his potential when they looked at his resume.

    20. Fantasma*

      We were hiring a backfill of sorts for me, and it came down to an internal candidate and an external candidate. The internal candidate knew exactly how to answer everything and had good work samples so the other interviewers preferred her. I preferred the external because she brought experience that we didn’t have and needed (and she also interviewed well, just not as well as the internal candidate). We hired the internal candidate, and she had some strengths but shut down every time she got feedback and never really improved. She caused friction with other team members and generally made it clear she was out for herself so she could get promoted quickly. Because our manager wasn’t assertive in tough situations, the team culture devolved and many people, including me, left the team.

  14. Loopy*

    Anyone have tips for not getting overwhelmed when starting a fast paced, deadline driven job where you have to jump right in??

    I expect it to ramp up very quickly. Plus I’ll be off site from the team and without a direct supervisor for the first week!!

      1. Loopy*

        I think it will! I’m expected a backlog will make it harder up front in addition to the new-ness of everything!

    2. SophieChotek*

      I think most of it is mental. If you know it will be fast-paced and deadline driven before going in, one can be mentally prepared, versus suddenly and unexpectly getting thrown into it. Easier said, than done, I know.

      Also I don’t know if this is deadline-driven job or deadline-driven job with no end in sight, but if I know I am on an intense project but it will be/must be over by X, that really helps me push through. (I usually add at least a week to accomodate delays, etc., so I won’t be disappointed when it runs over.)

      If possible – to sound like a fortune cookie advice person – if you like having a list to check off/mentally say, “I did this”, breaking it into smaller pieces….? Might help?

      1. Loopy*

        I’m expecting it to be harder up front due to a potential back log but also I am hoping being mentally prepped for an uphill fight does help. Thanks!

    3. Alternative Person*

      Organize yourself. I have a notebook where I keep track of things with task lists of what needs to be done and when by, it makes sure something is at least on my mental radar even if it isn’t an immediate priority. Figure out what works for you.

      Set aside time to organize yourself. 10-15 minutes of working out what you need to do and by when can save you hours later on. If I plan out my day at the start, I can parcel my resources (physical, work related and mental) to get through it, usually with enough spoons to handle an emergency.

      1. Loopy*

        Thank you for this. Sometimes it feels absurdly hard to justify time spent planning even though I know it makes sense. In overwhelming situations it’s so tempting to jump in and get the workload down asap.

        I am debating getting a new bullet journal. I don’t love it but in the past having a neat, well laid out template for my thoughts/questions/tasks helps me feel more in control.

    4. CatCat*

      I make a checklist of all the steps I need to do before the deadline. That way, if I start to get overwhelmed and things start to slip my mind, the list helps keep me on track and moving forward. I am in a phase like that right now and the checklist is ensuring I know 100% where I am and what I still have to do. I literally forgot a step yesterday and was reminded by referencing the list and got it taken care of so I will meet the deadline.

    5. Ann Furthermore*

      I’m in this same position. The only consolation is that just about everyone is new so we’re all in the same boat. I am just trying to figure out one thing at a time and move on to the next.

    6. 13 days left @ toxic job*

      Even beyond a personal check list, keep a record of what you’ve done on each project. That way, if some higher-ups have questions about why you’re not performing as quickly (particularly since you won’t have a manager that first week) you can give them the list of what you did and ask for guidance (are you spending too much time on one thing? Did you miss a resource that they forgot to train you on?)

      One of my jobs had an online portal where we all put every update we had on our cases and it was a really great way not just to prove your work but it was a SUPER handy training tool. If you ever didn’t know what to do with a teapot decorating problem, you could just search “teapot decorating” and see what Mark did three years ago and let that guide you. It meant new hires needed less training, since a lot of our information and knowledge was already collected. That’s less advice and more of a plug for a system like this, it’s very useful.

    7. Nita*

      If you have the option, maybe stay a bit after hours for the first few days to catch up on things. It’s much easier to learn new stuff and go through documents when the phone isn’t ringing off the hook, and the contractor isn’t demanding a resolution to some problem right this minute.

      1. Loopy*

        I may not have the flexibility to work extra hours but I definitely see the value in this! I may use after hours to collect my thoughts, formulate to do lists and questions, etc. Especially since I can do that comfortably at my kitchen table!

    8. CynicallySweet7*

      Hand calendar, post it notes, lists, and questions!!
      The calendar is to keep track of all your deadlines, what kind you are using doesn’t matter, as long as it’s visible and you’re consistent about updating it (I know there are people who use their e-mail calendar for this with success, but I’ve found that looking at an actual calendar is helpful, esp when juggling multiple deadlines).
      Post-it’s are great for questions when there’s multiple projects and no time to write out a guide for yourself. Write the question on the note and the answer under it, then stick it somewhere until you have time to write something more formal out (I keep the post-its on my cube wall organized by project). Then if/when you have some down time write the post-its up in a more formal guide.
      Lists!! I love lists! In the beginning they’re harder to make bc you might not be as clear about how much time things take to do, but a general ‘here’s what I need to have done by [day] ‘ is handy (just be sure to leave time for extra stuff to pop-up).
      Questions. There are a couple of important things to know about this part. 1) one of the most effective thing you can do is figure out who knows what, so you can be sure you’re asking the right people the right questions. 2) Write down the answers! A real fast way to use up good will is by asking the same question over and over again (clarification is fine, but not the same one). 3) Think about the question before you ask it and make sure you actually understand what you’re really asking. 4) Be confident enough in your skills to know that it’s ok to not always know the answer (A.k.a. it’s ok to tell people ‘I’m not sure, let me go find out’, I think this is essential even when you’re not new, but esp when you are it’ll typically be seen as a positive)
      I was in your place about this time last year, and the most helpful piece of advice I got from my manager (paraphrased) ‘No one expects you to know how to do all of this perfectly right out the gate. Show everyone that you’re willing to work learn/hard and most mistakes will be forgiven. If you get to far behind let me know so everyone else isn’t f*ed up too’. Obviously this’ll depend on you’re company and I’d imagine it’ll be harder working remotely, but I’ve found those tips to be really helpful. Also breathe, and from day one keep your inbox ruthlessly organized! Good Luck!

      1. Loopy*

        I also love lists. Clearing out my old desk I had so many notebooks just full to to do lists,notes, etc. I’m definitely going to be trying to figure out a format for all my lists so I can have it set up and ready to go on day one!

    9. Ali G*

      It’s OK to do things as they always have been done, even if you know you can improve them. Just focus on learning what you need to know and prioritizing what needs to get done when. Once you have some more knowledge on how stuff works, then start to try to figure out how to make things better/more efficient etc. But get through your ramp up phase first!
      Good luck!

    10. Fiddlesticks*

      Create systems so you don’t have to rely on your own memory for things!

      One of the things that’s hardest about stepping into jobs where you have to move fast, keep track of a ton of moving pieces and all across numerous projects is honestly keeping your tasks and to-dos straight in your head. To whatever extent possible, create a system that allows you to focus on maybe 3-4 things at once, and then once those are complete move onto the next batch of must-dos.

      For example, my Outlook is rife with rules so that when I open my inbox, where in aggregate I may have gotten 100-200 emails overnight, I’m actually only looking at 20-30 in my main inbox. The rest I’ve built rules to automatically file those away into folders which I will review when I have the opportunity/time/need. Of those 20-30 live ones, I go through them all immediately to determine if they fall into the “must do today,” “must do within 2 hours” or “can be done in five minutes.” The stuff for today/two hours gets flagged appropriately, and all the five minute items are knocked out within the first 15-20 minutes of my workday.

      That leaves me free to work my way through the de-escalating levels of urgency of my inbox afterward, while giving me a little leeway for if fire drills emerge or other “five minute” requests come through.

      Oh yeah, also, train yourself to send people acknowledgement messages when they come through with requests, because I’ve learned if you don’t (and don’t provide any sort of timeline), that one email usually turns into two or three or even a call when people are left dealing with the abyss of uncertainty.

      Good luck on the new gig!!

      1. Loopy*

        I know some people who have done this. I never have and I dont have a sense of how to apply the rules yet but I’ll keep it in mind for sure!

        Thanks for the acknowledgement tip- that’s a great one!

    11. Not So NewReader*

      One job was the fastest pace environment I have worked in or ever work in, period.

      The thing I did that saved my butt, is each night I would make a list of where I would start in the morning. Saving the few minutes each morning by being able to jump right helped an incredible amount. I never would have thought so but after seeing it first hand, I realized, that list from the night before is a powerful tool.

      I will say that because you are away from everyone they will probably expect less from you than they do of each other because of your newness. At the job I have now, I have a bullet journal type of thing to gather all the odd stuff that I deal with, random information I need to remember, how-to’s and so on. I have a separate small tablet for writing down projects that I need to attend to and might forget.

      1. Loopy*

        That’s a great idea. Sometimes I have sat down to organize thoughts outside of work just to calm my brain. Making it a routine thing might not be a bad idea for the first month or so!

  15. writelhd*

    hey say you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, and while I have mostly found that to be true, I’m still amazed, when I overhear our customer service reps talking on the phone, at how many people jump straight to vinegar and in general are just total jerks to the people who are trying to help them. Yet I also worry that perhaps in my dealings with subcontractors and vendors, I am being too nice, too “understanding” and thus letting them walk all over me, or at least not take adequate responsibilities for mistakes that are theirs, not mine, yet put me and my company in a bad position as a result.

    Do any of y’all have “caught more flies with honey” stories from your business world, especially as a customer dealing with a vendor or contractor?

      1. Jack Russell Terrier*

        I think if you’re talking about subcontractors and vendors (which is different from calling your credit card company to complain) it’s about developing the relationship so that you come across as courteous, kind, understanding, give credit where it’s due and being reasonable. Then you can point out in a firm and reasonable way that it is their responsibility for them to fix things that are their mistakes.

        Let me give and example – recently I had some of my wood floor replaced due to water damage. I used the company that originally installed the floor. I liked the point person very much. There was some issue over getting the wood from the suppliers, and I was patient about it – it wasn’t their fault and the point person thanked me for my patience with that.

        Then I saw the new contract. It had the company giving all liability for everything to me. Basically whatever went wrong they weren’t liable. I e-mailed her, mentioned this clause and suggested a different standard clause I had found absolving them of liability for things they couldn’t have foreseen (there was another clause forbidding me from changing the contract, which normally I would have done). This is a small company and the owner said he couldn’t change the contact and I should ‘trust them’. Over the course of a perfectly civil conversation, I told my contact that of course they wanted to protect themselves, but that it was reasonable for me to protect myself as well. That I had reflected this balance in the proposed clause change. It was unreasonable to expect me to sign it and I really couldn’t. I apologized for her being caught in the middle and said that I realized she was in a difficult position (this part was important). She said she’d talk to the owner again – and he agreed to my clause.

        This was actually a job that turned out to be jinxed all the way through. It was a small job for them, but all along the way I thanked her for help, referenced my appreciation for how she went to bat over the other conrtact issue and other ways she’d been helpful. But I was firm she had to come and see an installation issue because the installer had got very defensive. When she arrived, I gave her some homemade chocolate chip cookies because it was a long drive for her. She immediately agreed that the installation issue was obviously that they hadn’t taken up the last of the water damage and she got that fixed.

        I think ‘catching flies’ is really a combination of putting yourself in the other person’s shoes and articulating when you appreciate something and when they are in a difficult position, being understanding of things beyond their control and being reasonable. But being reasonable also means reasonable from their end – think through what is their responsibility to make right and why they have an obligation to do that and then present it in a straightforward, reasonable but firm manner. Your tone here is very important.

        As an aside – always check your liability clauses as this is the third time a vendor has wanted me to accept all liability for everything!

        1. Anonym*

          This is great. I’ve also had success (both in work and with contractors) with being warm, kind and firm. It’s a magic combo that allows you to build and keep good relationships without compromising on what needs to be done. And of course, as your story illustrates, being flexible when you reasonably can.

          1. tangerineRose*

            “warm, kind and firm” This!

            You want to be someone they can work with and someone who they can’t walk on.

            I’ve found it works for me to be kind, helpful, but persistent when I need to be.

    2. 13 days left @ toxic job*

      It’s very hard to be polite if someone isn’t being polite to you, but you’re not allowed as a customer service rep to be mean back so you have to come up with ways to deal with people yelling at you. My office has a competition for Who’s Been Yelled At The Longest. The rule is you cannot say anything or interject, and the record is 7 minutes and 15 seconds. Little games like that can help you cope.

    3. blue canary*

      Oh for sure. I generally am very polite and courteous as long as the person I’m dealing with seems willing to actually try to help me. There have been times where I’m pretty sure I’ve gotten free stuff/discounts/refunds just because I’m not an asshole to someone. And when I was in food service, people who were nice to me often got extra stuff that I’d never give to someone who was rude. I’m not rewarding that kind of behavior!

    4. Jules the Third*

      I work hard to word things constructively. What it has meant over the years is that I get listened to – if I say ‘X is a problem’, people take me seriously. I’ve seen a lot of regular complainers get dismissed until someone who complains less often backs them up.

    5. Former Retail Manager*

      Yes! I am currently in a position in which I hold the power and have the ability to take legal and enforceable action, but the other party must still participate. Think…..compliance related position. It’s a fine line in knowing when to be understanding and give a little and when to hold your ground, but all in all, I have tended to get better results when using honey. I have co-workers who also jump to the vinegar approach and some of them seem baffled at why virtually all of their interactions are contentious. While we may both reach the same end result, I find that being reasonable and polite is much less stressful for me and for them. As long as you are clear about your expectations with the other party from the beginning and the consequences for not meeting those expectations, I think you’re right to stand your ground, but you can do that without being mean or nasty.

    6. Bea*

      There’s a lot of working parts here.

      Are you certain your CSRs are well trained and pleasant to deal with? I’ll lose my mind when dealing with a handcuffed, script heavy CSR. I’ve had instances where I have had to call back to get another person to help.

      My first boss told me the most valuable thing that kept me sane in CS. “Some people are just bad people. It’s not you.” since if you’re helpful and they’re still rip roaring mad, that’s a case of “jerks gonna jerk.”

      I’ve had returns dealt with swiftly and fast service due to my generally kind demeanor while working with vendors. I’ve also had them mistake my kindness for weakness and were shocked when I turned into a rage beast taking out account elsewhere.

      Delicate balance. Default should be approachable and understanding at all times.

    7. Drama Llama*

      I’m on the reverse side of this. I am a generally polite person, and I learned that in some cases I need to be less polite and more aggressive.

      One example is when a hotel completely messed up my booking. When I politely tried to work with them to fix it it got nowhere. After a week of multiple emails back and forth I rang the customer service staff and made it clear I was furious. She only fixed the problem once she realised I was pissed and would be an annoying irate customer to deal with.

      I find that to be the case so often – if you are polite, customer service staff don’t proactively help you or offer any remedies to make up for their mistakes. It’s only when you get aggressive that they start listening to make you go away.

    8. Girl friday*

      Changing your attitude is always a great thing to do first. Sometimes other people are just crazy and there’s always something to learn from dealing with everyone.

      1. Girl friday*

        That was supposed to be under the Randy comment. There’s 7B people on the planet, so no one needs to go away.

    9. LilySparrow*

      Well, being courteous has nothing to do with letting people walk all over you.

      You can say “no” or “I need this to be done” or “that’s not going to work, how else can we solve this” or “I’m afraid that’s not possible,” or “this requirement is non-negotiable,” in a perfectly pleasant and courteous way.

      I find that if I start out saying, “I have a problem I hope you can help me with,” that sets up a positive dynamic, where the two of us are on the same team addressing the problem together.

      And then if they can’t fix it, I can say, “Thanks for trying. Is there someone else who might have the ability to change this?” Or “Well, I have to make this happen somehow, so what is my next step here,” or “What alternatives can you give me?”

      You don’t have to be a jerk to be assertive. Mostly its about listening to the other person, not talking over them, and addressing their concerns in a practical way while being clear about what you are able or willing to do in return.

    10. Not So NewReader*

      From the other side of the story: My husband did service calls. The people who stood out in his mind were the folks who always seemed to have something on hand to offer him. Whether he accepted or not, was beside the point in his mind. The point was the acknowledgement that he was present and helping them. Additional bonus points went to the folks who remembered he was a diabetic (he would mention it after they asked a few times.) These folks would have a diet tea or bottled water available for him.
      The way he paid them back for their extra concern was with extra tips or pointers on handling their machine. Sometimes he would sneak in a little training or do a small extra repair at no charge. While no one in this story did anything big, the impact over time was a very good working relationship. An amazing number of people do not even “see” a tech and just ignore them entirely.

    11. Quinoa*

      Oh YES! I’m originally from the West Coast, and when we do business phone calls there, it’s always direct and to the point. “Hi. This is Quinoa from Teapots, Inc. I’m calling about…” So when I moved to the Midwest, I was FLUMMOXED with my first several business calls, which always began with the other person saying, “How are you today?” after I introduced myself. Literally caught me up short and made me pause to recalibrate.

      Which is why, when I went back to work a West Coast event and had to talk with an IRATE vendor that one of the other staff had pissed off and then some by being an ass, I used that magic on THEM. “Hi. This is Quinoa from major event. How are you today?” They were all ready to launch into an attack, and my sincerely asked question threw them completely off their game. Since I knew the staff member had been an ass, I was also able to listen sympathetically to their complaints, which was really what they wanted. To be heard and acknowledged and apologized to and told how much we appreciated them. We finished that phone call with them happy to have talked to me.

      From then on, I was known in the organization as the Vendor Whisperer.

  16. Anon One Time*

    Finally heard back after 4 rounds of interviews, then 3 weeks of complete silence. I’m the leading candidate, and only candidate in serious consideration, but it’s time for interview number 5.

    No worries though. There is a business need for the 5th interview and I know I’m going to crush it.

  17. So anon today*

    Hoo boy, I have a workplace dilemma today. My organization hired a new executive, “Ralph,” who started this week in a prominent role. Ralph mentioned that he used to work at the same company as my husband until last year. I asked my husband about him and it turns out that my husband and I have two friends who used to work on Ralph’s team.

    Emphasis on “used.” They both left that company because of Ralph. They have nothing but awful things to say about Ralph; according to him he’s an incompetent, lazy, arrogant a-hole. Ralph was fired after less than six months there. Now, our two organizations could not be more different and the roles are different, too, so some could be chalked up to fit. But this sounds a lot worse than that, and I trust what my friends say. They are smart, hardworking, very low-drama people. I’ve actually heard them talk about this guy a bit in the past, but I didn’t know his name.

    Ralph is already working here. There’s nothing I can do with this information now except keep my distance, right?

    This is a small enough organization that I will have to interact with Ralph some, but I think it can be relatively minimal—I’m not in his reporting structure and we won’t even be based in the same location. I have good relationships with our leaders but I’m afraid of looking like a gossip-monger who only knows one side of the story secondhand if I share this information now. I generally have great faith in our leadership team and I know they care about both high performance and excellent relationship skills, and they haven’t been afraid to let low performers or bad fits go in the past. If problems arise I know they’ll address them. But it’s tough to have such strongly negative information now, but without knowing all of the facts for sure, about someone we just hired into a prominent position.

    Do I just keep all of this to myself and wait for the likely-inevitable disaster to strike?

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      What level are you on compared to Ralph? What kind of relationship do you have with the hiring manager who made the decision to hire Ralph?

      If you’re close to the same level and you have a good relationship, I think you could bring up that you know some people who used to work for Ralph and you’re curious about how he portrayed his tenure at Company X. If you’re very junior and/or do not have a solid relationship with the hiring manager, it will be a lot more difficult for you to bring this up without looking like you’re gossiping.

      1. So anon today*

        I am very junior in my organization, but we’re also very small (under ten people, but growing quickly), so I currently report directly to the CEO and have a great relationship with her. I’ve been here ten months, and while I know I have a great reputation internally I just don’t know whether I have enough credibility yet to insert myself in this particular situation with one-sided secondhand information.

        1. Cheesesticks and Pretzels*

          I would stay out of it. At this point you only have hearsay evidence on why this guy left his last job and his reputation. It is not worth potentially harming your good reputation you have been building to take what amounts to as gossip about this guy. If he is as horrid as others have said, he will hang himself given time.

    2. writelhd*

      yeah, I’d say probably so. The decision’s been made. You’re not going to be in the direct line of fire much. If he got fired after 6 months in his last job, sounds like he’s capable of making his own bed, especially if you trust your leadership team to deal with problems if they arise.

    3. BetsCounts*

      I think you should say something. Even if your office is good about doing due diligence re: references etc., this wasn’t 5 or 10 years ago, but at most 18 MONTHS ago. How much can a person change in a year and a half, even if the organization and tasks are different? You can soften it, mention you obviously didn’t observe any of the behaviors, but I feel you should say something, even if it’s just to alert people to be especially attentive to these types of problems.

    4. Alternative Person*

      I’d keep quiet unless it gets brought up to you and I wouldn’t say anything (t00) damning, sometimes a ‘huh’ and a raised eyebrow is enough. Also, make sure you cover your ass when you do interact with this guy.

      1. So anon today*

        The good news is that Ralph’s former company is huge and has thousands of employees locally. Despite knowing that my husband works there, none of my coworkers would ever expect that I would have heard something about this guy–it’s actually really surprising to me that I have friends on his former team since the company is so large (those friends aren’t even mutual LinkedIn connections between me and Ralph). So if I choose to keep my mouth shut forever and ever, no one would guess that I had information I was keeping to myself.

      2. Jules the Third*

        What AP says – don’t volunteer the information, but use it to filter your reactions.

        And document every interaction you have with him – good or bad. That can help cover your rear but also gives you a way to combat confirmation bias if he has changed for the better.

    5. Good, Cheap, or Soon. Pick Two.*

      I think this is a “Not your circus, not your monkeys” situation. Ralph sounds perfectly capable of aiming at his own foot.

      1. SQL Coder Cat*

        This is what my co-workers and I call a “Not your circus, not your elephants” situation. Because with monkeys, there may be some goodwill to be gained for helping corral them, but when the elephants break loose it’s best to stay out of the way.

    6. June*

      What happens if you say something but he has changed? Then it looks you were spreading gossip about a new hire for no reason AND second guessing mgt’s decision. I would leave it alone.
      The good news is you know about his past and not to hitch your wagon to his. Most of us don’t learn that info until it’s too late. You already have a head start to avoid him.

    7. Not So NewReader*

      Let the chips fall where they will.

      If anyone says anything to you, you just tell them the truth. “I found out some information after Ralph was hired. My problem was that I did not see the issues first hand, I was running on what others said.” For people who are senior to you, you can say you had no way to verify the info that came too late anyway.

      For people who are peers or lower on the ladder than you, “I later learned that Ralph and I know some of the same people. But I am not sure about what happened at Ralph’s Old Place so I can’t speak to that.” Here, you are not sure what happened because you were not there.

      In both cases make the statements with a flat disinterested voice. It’s helpful to even act distracted by a task at hand. People will give up and move on.

    8. Anne (with an “e”)*

      I would not say anything to anyone. I think it will make you you bad and like a gossip, as you fear. If Ralph is truly as awful as you’ve heard, it will become obvious to the powers that be in due time. In the meantime, you can be vigilant and circumspect around Ralph and try to stay out of his way.

  18. Sloan Kittering*

    I am leaving my job in one week. I have to get through five more days of people saying they’re sad to see me go and will miss me – but I’ve actually *had it up to here* with this job and have been intensely searching for over a year now, so I’m just SO HAPPY to be leaving that I can barely receive these comments without responding something flippant like, “really? that’s weird. I can’t wait to be gone.”

    No advice needed, just wish me luck in faking it a little bit longer … one more week! One more week!

    1. Another Person*

      Best of luck and congrats!

      When I was on my notice period at toxic job, I literally had people come up and tell me to stop looking so happy about leaving.

      I didn’t. I just told them I was really excited about my new opportunity!

      1. Sloan Kittering*

        Yeah, I don’t want to rub it in haha. But there’s all sorts of boring stuff everybody’s talking about right now, and I’m just over here like “this isn’t my problem anymore!” BIG GRIN. I really didn’t want to be this way, I should have left months ago (and was trying!). I’m just completely burned out now and DGAF. I just need to keep it together a little longer so I don’t undo all my patient years of building up a good reputation by being the person who ran out yelling WHEEEEE and throwing the papers over my head.

        1. Another Person*

          Before I left (after a painful months long job search!) one of my colleagues said to me, you know after you go management is just going to blame you for everything anyway, right? Your name will be mud here.

          Still, it feels nicer to be kind to the people being left behind (ALL my colleagues eventually came to me individually and confided they were all mired in their own job searches and were more than a little jealous.)

          1. Triplestep*

            That’s normal, though. When someone leaves a job, things tend to get blamed on them for the first few months after.

    2. amanda_cake*

      I am leaving soon too (counting the days). I love my job, but I am burnt out and ready for something in my field. I also have a lot to be excited about–moving, new house and new things, spending time with my cousins, etc. I’m going to pick them up and spend about a week with them (2 boys, 15 and 8 years old). They are going to help me pack up things, move a few things that I don’t want the movers touching (like my craft supplies!) and we are going to do some fun stuff (hiking, a trip to the caverns, etc.)

      I think a lot of people are jealous that I’m leaving so the comments have driven me insane. Just keep swimming, just keep swimming.

  19. Detective Amy Santiago*

    Going off of this morning’s post – what perks are important to you at work?

    1. Emi.*

      I really love being able to carry “credit hours” from pay period to pay period (I’m hoarding my actual leave for maternity leave), and I will really miss it if I ever leave the government.

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      Honestly, paid vacation/flexible schedule and salary.

      I mean, obviously, I want autonomy, a manager who trusts me, the tools to do my job, a pleasant work environment, etc., but I don’t consider those perks, just symptoms of a good working environment.

      In terms of actual perks, it’s really just about time off and money. I’ve worked places with a free lunch catered, and that’s nice, but it’s not really that important to me. I can pack a lunch. I’ve worked places that give you gifts or bonuses. I don’t really want a bonus; I want a higher salary. I’ve worked places that have “fun” days or team bonding activities. I consider those work and not perks at all.

    3. Angela B.*

      Flexible work schedule! Something I used to have but have no longer, although the trade off is way better benefits and salary, so I’m dealing with it and hoping to get to the grade level where I don’t have to clock in and out any more.

    4. ThatGirl*

      Flexibility in scheduling, especially if I just need to leave 15 minutes or half an hour early.

      decent coffee. My last job did NOT have good coffee, this one’s is much better.

      A cafeteria, which is actually something I miss from my last job; this building only has a faux-convenience store. (But it’s so much better in other ways.)

      And because I work for a baking and decorating supply/education company, we get cool little perks like free mini-classes and chances to help test-bake recipes.

    6. Sloan Kittering*

      My boss doesn’t care if we come in late (fifteen minutes late to about 30 minutes late is completely no big deal, not even noticeable – around an hour late would be an issue). It seems crazy, but that’s worth a lot to me.

    7. Emily S.*

      Health benefits, and paid vacation top my list.
      Although, our health insurance isn’t as good as it was in the past — and the cost of drugs is ridiculous!

    8. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      The big one: flexibility. I’m not kept to a particular schedule (although I keep pretty regular 9-5 hours). I would struggle so much if I had to go back to a more time-structured environment.

      The other big one: my organization considers all tenure (not just tenure with this org) when determining PTO accrual rates. So, because I had 15 years of experience when I started, I jumped to the second-highest PTO level. I’d never go back to just three weeks or whatever the entry-level is in other orgs.

    9. SpaceNovice*

      Health benefits, vacation, salary, and flex time. Continuous education is also important since software engineering changes so much even year to year.

      1. Faith*

        Same here. I want to work reasonable hours, have control over my schedule, get paid the going market rate for what I do, have my family’s medical needs met, and have enough time off to allow me to travel and actually spend time with my family. I don’t care if the dress code is formal or casual, if there is cafeteria/gym/pharmacy on campus, if the company caters lunch/provides free coffee/allows you to bring your dog to work/etc. None of this will make up for sucky health benefits/little vacation time/being underpaid/rigid schedule.

    10. AnonEMoose*

      PTO and flexibility are important to me, too. It’s really nice to be able to email my boss and say “working from home today.” I don’t do it often, but it’s nice to be able to when I need to.

      It’s also nice that I only have to pay for 50% of my transit pass.

    11. Ann Furthermore*

      Flexible hours and schedule, which I’ve had in my last few jobs and honestly I don’t think I could ever go back. When I broached this with my boss when he interviewed me, he said that most people come in around 8:30 or 9. I said that I like to get an early start so I can be available for family stuff in the evenings. He responded with, “You’re a professional person. You can manage your own time.” Yes, please, I would love to work for you!

      Free bus/light rail pass. I’m putting maybe 5 miles a day onto my car driving to and from the train station, and then I can bury my nose in a book for 45 minutes and not sit in traffic. I go in early before it gets too hot and take the train that stops on the other end of downtown, and walk to the office, which is a nice 20 – 25 minute walk.

      Treating PTO the way it’s supposed to be treated. I was unable to put in 4 hours of PTO for a day I took off recently and was told that since I’m salaried I get paid for any day where I work at all. I know that’s legally the way it’s supposed to be done, but this is the first job where I’ve ever been prevented from using a half day of PTO.

      Double edged sword: free donuts on Fridays. I’m powerless against them.

    12. Ann*

      Right now? Showing the World Cup in the cafeteria.

      In general: flexibility – as long as I’m here from 9-3 and get my work done, nobody cares what time I get in or leave. I also like that while my job primarily requires me to be in the office (because I need to have physical access to things), I can work from home when needed as long as I let my manager know.

    13. Tabby Baltimore*

      Flexible scheduling, work autonomy, and the ability to use sick leave and PTO in 15-min. increments.

    14. Linda Evangelista*

      Definitely work from home flexibility. I didn’t have this at all in my last job, and now I have a set day every week that I can work from home, plus any flexibility I might need in case I get a cold or something but can still work.

      Commuter reimbursement – where I live, my commuting costs are under the max amount we can have reimbursed every month, so I don’t have to pay for the bus, which is nice!

      1. AnonEMoose*

        Dress code matters to me, too. I’d still be ok with business casual, but would not be happy in an environment where I had to wear full business wear.

    16. zora*

      Flexibility in schedule: I am hourly, nonexempt, so it’s not super flexible, but it’s important to me that there are no clock watchers here. If my bus is late, and I’m 15 minutes late coming in, no one even notices much less makes a big deal out of it. They trust that I will work what I am getting paid for and it all comes out in the end.

      Culture stuff is paid for. I really like that none of that stuff is coming out of my pocket. I’m happy to have drinks with my coworkers once in a while to have a nice working relationship, but the company is paying for it. If I have to spend my own money on work lunches and happy hours, I’m much less happy about it and it becomes a work task, not a fun thing that makes me enjoy the place I work.

      Office aesthetics. I love our current office: Hardwood floors, big windows/glass walls, nice lighting in addition to the natural light. I like that it’s bright and airy and colorful. I really hate the drab gray depressing cube farms with terrible fluorescent lighting, it really does affect my mood spending 1/3 of my life in those places.

    17. NoodleMara*

      Not having to work weekends and getting holidays off paid. It sounds pretty basic but at my previous job I soooooo didn’t get them. Also since I work for a university I get that sweet sweet journal access. Plus all the training stuff from Lynda dot com which I mostly use for my personal projects.

    18. Anonym*

      In-house medical office, bar none. Not that I’d expect to find it everywhere, but they’ve saved me so much money in healthcare costs, given excellent recommendations for GP and specialists, and they even identified an unusual and progressing condition that I hadn’t realized was a problem.

      They’re not full service, more like the school nurse, but they can do some prescribing and standard lab tests.

      1. Anonym*

        Oh, and seconding everyone above, flexible hours and work from home option. Unless things get desperate, I don’t intend to ever take a job without them in the future.

    20. Candy*

      A perk that is also really important to me is that we’re all paid for the week the university closes between Dec 25-Jan 1. That’s in addition to the 25 days paid vacation I get a year. I passively look for new jobs every once in a while but it’s hard to go from 6 weeks vacation/year to just having the two weeks vacation time I’d start with if I found a new job elsewhere.

  20. Anon for this*

    My manager did something weird last week and I’m trying to figure out why. I have two managers who share an office, which has two desks on opposite sides of the room. The department filing cabinets are also in their office, and It’s not uncommon for other people in the department to go in to pick up or drop off files.

    One of the managers, Joe, has only been here a few months. When he started the job, he set up his desk with some office supplies and a few personal items (family photos, framed professional certificates, etc.). I went into the managers’ office last week to get a file, and Joe’s desk was completely cleaned out. My first thought was that he had quit his job and left! But nope, he’s still there. Some people, including the other manager, have asked him about it and he has been very evasive (he responds, “Don’t worry about it,” or “Everything’s ok.”). But it’s freaking weird, right?!

    The only theory I’ve heard is that someone may have played a prank involving Joe’s belongings and this was how he reacted. There are some people in the department who like to play pranks that are annoying but not mean-spirited (e.g., covering someone’s monitor with post-its or hiding someone’s coffee mug). One of my coworkers confessed to doing something — the manager had paper clips in two compartments of a desk organizer, separated into large and small, and the coworker put one small paper clip with the large ones and one large paper clip with the small ones. I’m not a fan of pranks in the workplace, but even I think that was pretty innocuous and wouldn’t warrant such a reaction from Joe. Plus, Joe is a manager, so if he had a problem with someone messing with his belongings, he should just say that he wants people to leave his desk alone.

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Is it possible that Joe is separated/divorced/having some other family issue and decided to remove all personal objects from his office?

    2. BetsCounts*

      it is pretty weird. I knew I was going to quit my last job several months before I left, so before I went on a long-ish vacation I cleaned out my office and took most of my stuff home, and the fact that’s he’s being evasive about it makes it weirder! I am super nosy so I would be dying of curiosity, and in fact *am* dying of curiosity!

    3. Sloan Kittering*

      I’d think he’s probably been put on a PIP or has given his notice. One of the first things I did when I knew I was leaving was start packing up my personal things – I didn’t want to walk out with a ridiculous massive box. People who fear being fired do this too, as sometimes you can’t get your stuff back – and you don’t want to be perp-walked out while clutching a massive peace lily …

      1. Anon for this*

        I doubt he’s been put on a PIP, if only for the fact that he hasn’t been here long enough. He’s still learning the ropes, but he hasn’t made any major screw-ups, and he is well-liked. People have straight up asked him if he’s been poached by another department and he swears he’s here for the long haul in our department.

    4. Xarcady*

      Someone I supervised did that once. Walked into his shared office one day and all his personal stuff was just gone.

      A manager from a different department had yelled at him for making a mistake that a) was not a mistake and b ) not a job he was working on. He had cleared out his desk because he was seriously thinking of quitting because of the interaction with the other manager.

      I was able to calm him down, and use the incident to prove to the owner that Other Manager was becoming a problem.

      It’s possible Joe just decided to go minimalist at work. But my gut feeling is that something has changed about how Joe feels about working for your company.

      1. RedCoat*

        I actually did this… sort of. I was desperate to escape our call center, and had gotten turned down for an internal position because “they couldn’t afford to lose me in the call center” (I was doing literally double the amount of work of the next person, and x4 what our expected KPI was supposed to be). So, I took most of my personal items, just about everything other than what I needed to work, and packed it up, put it in my car. I didn’t say anything about it, if anyone asked I said I was just doing some spring cleaning. I didn’t make it a big deal to my coworkers, by I think management got my message and things started drastically improving over the next few weeks (including A LOT of my improvement ideas). Was it 100% the desk thing? Probably not, but damn it felt good to make a point.

        1. TheCupcakeCounter*

          The “we can’t promote you because you are too good at this job” line is the WORST thing a company can say too an employee. They think it is a compliment but the reality is they just guaranteed my exit post haste. If I am that important then prove it through my compensation and growth opportunities or I will take my awesome self elsewhere.

      2. Windchime*

        I used the “spring cleaning” reason at my previous (toxic) job. Things were going downhill fast, so I started moving out. Basically all of my personal items were gone when I finally left. Honestly, management was kind of stupid for buying my “spring cleaning” excuse.

    5. Anonynony Today*

      I have a difficult coworker who occasionally just likes to get nasty with people, then is fine.

      I was raised by jerks, so it’s not fine with me.

      When this happens, instead of losing my temper (…so far), I pack up some of my personal stuff and take it home. When my life settles down, I’m going to figure out whether to stay here, but for a few years this has been a pretty good coping strategy.

    6. CareerSwitchMaybe?*

      That’s odd… maybe he noticed the paperclips and then heard about the other pranks your coworkers did, and decided to take anything valuable out of the target zone? It could also be something more personal going on, such as people commenting on the photos of his family but they’re going through a rough time.

    7. savethedramaforyourllama*

      Not to totally be a drama-monger here, at my last job we had an employee that committed suicide (not at work) and I went to go “clean out her desk” and there were zero personal items there.

    8. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain*

      Three thoughts:
      How much personalization do the others (especially the other manager) in your office do at their desks? If he’s new he may have noticed after the fact that nobody else has those things on their desk and got a bit spooked that he was an odd one out.

      The paperclip thing is so trivial that I know I wouldn’t even notice it myself; so if he even noticed something as tiny as a two paperclips in the wrong compartments, he is really sensitive about his “territory”.

      This one is more for people who have been at their job for a while but, sometimes I get sick of looking at the same things day after day so I “redecorate”. Also, in my line of work, I somehow collect all kinds of flotsam that eventually needs to be tossed. So for a bit it might look like I’m getting ready to quit as I get rid of the old stuff. Maybe he has a lower threshold for boredom or clutter.

      1. Anon for this*

        Other people personalize their desks to varying degrees. The other manager has a few photos and certificates — much more stuff than Joe. It’s not just the personal stuff that he cleaned out, though. He took EVERYTHING off his desk. There’s not so much as a pen there anymore. He took all the binders and folders off his shelves. It’s possible he hid everything away in drawers (I didn’t open his drawers to check), but it’s very unusual for anyone to have a completely empty desk. He’s definitely the odd one out now. I’m not sure if he even noticed the paper clips, but that is the only thing anyone has admitted to touching on his desk.

        1. Catalin*

          Maybe he’s trying something, like practicing minimalism or some similar mantra. Like feng shui, or one of those ‘successful people do X’ things.

        2. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain*

          I’m assuming that some of those binders and folders and office supplies are actually company property so that goes beyond just removing personal items then. He sounds like he is bothered by sharing office space to me. I share an office too and sometimes the more cluttered my mates get, the more minimalist I become just to balance out the room or stakeout my ground.

    9. Technical_Kitty*

      The paperclip thing may seem innocuous, but what it says is “this space is not safe from me”. I’m not sure it would warrant such a reaction either, but it depends on the person and how they feel about their personal space treated as public. I wouldn’t take all my things home, but I would definitely have a conversation about appropriate office behaviour and whether or not we need to go back to locking our desks.

      1. Arjay*

        Yes. For me it depends on if the desk organizer is on the desk or inside a drawer. On the desk, it wouldn’t bother me too much. In a drawer would. I don’t mean to be overdramatic, but that just reads as creepy to me. I remember the letter about the person who found a bullet on their desk, and I have that same sort of visceral reaction. Someone intentionally disrupted my things in a very deliberate fashion. Yikes.

      2. foolofgrace*

        Yes, “this place is not safe for me.” It seems that a lot of people wouldn’t be bothered by or even notice it, but I would, and it would make me wonder what else was being sabotaged. It would piss me off to have my stuff messed with. If you need to take some paperclips or something, fine, but pranks like this bother me.

    10. ..Kat..*

      Is it possible someone played a mean prank with his stuff?

      But, yeah, something odd has happened.

  21. Kramerica Industries*

    My team has recently undergone a coincidental high turnover where 4/6 of colleagues have been with the team for less than 6 months. I’m one of the most senior employees at 2.5 years. Lately, we’ve had a high volume of work and it’s been rather stressful on all of us. From talking to my new coworkers and my own experiences, I feel like morale has been quite low because we don’t feel like we’re getting adequate support.

    I have an excellent relationship with my manager and she’s one of the nicest and most optimistic people I know. The most recent example is that she sent us all a long email outlining feedback that she has received from other work groups and that we should make sure to follow process. We received this email first thing in the morning and she was not in the office to answer questions. My coworkers and I talked about the email and felt like we were left wondering if any of us had been making mistakes (this was not addressed), if she was trying to address someone specifically, and felt like this would have been better as an in-person meeting to talk over these issues.

    When I told my manager factually that the delivery of her email left us with questions and that it it felt unsupportive during a time when we were already stretched, she said it wasn’t her intention and that she just wanted to make sure we were following process. I totally understand that, but I’m not sure she really gets that the delivery of the message delivered a blow to our morale. Even if unintentional, shouldn’t it still be addressed? I want to tell her that by denying her (or anyone else’s) intentions, it feels like she’s turning a blind eye to the fact that it left us feeling bad and confused. Am I able to someone confront how she addresses feedback?

    1. SpaceNovice*

      Yeah, that needs to be addressed. Unintentional hits to morale still hit morale. You might be able to sit her down and talk to her about it again, but come up with a game plan ahead of time. Other commenters probably have better suggestions, though!

    2. Linda Evangelista*

      Not much feedback, just remarking that this sounds almost exactly like my last job.

    3. Martha*

      I have been in your manager’s shoes. I was so deeply stressed out trying to keep my head above water and trying to keep the workload at something resembling reasonable for my team that I lost sight of most everything else, including parsing communications for potential hits to morale. Talk to her, please. I wish my team had talked to me. From your description, it sounds like she’d very much want to hear that feedback. But also do be aware that as crazy as things are for the full team, she’s likely getting it just as bad if not worse. So be as kind as you can.

    4. Phoenix Programmer*

      I think you are better off having a big picture moral discussion instead of pointing to this one off.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Yep. I’d go with something like this:

        Boss, we are feeling a bit stressed and stretched because of the turn over in help. We are all feeling a bit maxed out. You are a good boss and we like your leadership style. But we are kind of at a loss about the process list you sent. What are we doing wrong? What would you like us to do better? We aren’t getting what it is you want you think we should change about what we are doing. It’s a little too cryptic/obscure for us to fish out.”

        If she apologizes or not is really beside the point. And you will make your point about the email by asking her to review it. “We don’t get it. Can you go over this? We are pretty sure this means we are doing something wrong but we can’t figure out what.”

        If she is as good a boss as you say she is, then she will instantly recognize her misstep here. Part of her explanation of the email will include an apology such as, “I am sorry that was not clear. I meant for you to do X not Y and I did not do a good job explaining that.”

        With a good boss don’t let stuff like this fester. If you guys are standing around talking about it, it’s only going to feel worse in your minds not better. Your best bet it to go to the source as quickly as possible.

  22. Southern Girl with Two Names*

    Does anyone have good advice for navigating “having someone call you by the right name”?

    I’m a consultant, and in my professional life I go by FirstName MiddleName- think “Billie Jean”. In my private life, I go by FirstName only – “Billie”. With people in my own company I find it easy to correct someone when I introduce myself as “Billie Jean” and they call me “Billie”, however with clients, especially clients that I only interact with via email and Skype and have never met face-to-face, I don’t know how to correct them in a quick, polite manner- especially if they call me the wrong name on a group email or during a conference call. Is sending someone I’ve never met and haven’t worked very closely with an instant message saying “Hey, wanted to let you know I go by Billie Jean” polite and not over the top? Is there a better way to handle things in the moment? I don’t want to put anyone on the spot, but I do want to be called by my correct professional name.

    I ask because I can be very blunt which can come across as impolite, so I’m not sure how to very “polite and breezy and friendly and very don’t-worry-about-it-no-trouble-at-all” tell someone “Hey, my name is Billie Jean, not Billie”.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      “It’s Billie Jean,” and then immediately proceed with whatever you were going to say.

      But it may be a losing battle. I had a boss whose first name sounded a lot like a last name and whose last name sounded a lot like a first name (think Boseman Chadwick). My boss would correct people all the time, people who had worked with us for years and should know better. There’s only so much you can do with people who are just careless about details like that.

    3. Murphy*

      I think if it’s voice, even on a conference call a friendly “Oh, it’s Billie Jean, if you don’t mind!” should do the trick.

      Text is a bit trickier, because it’s easy for something to be read in the incorrect tone. In a group email, I’d probably let it go, unless you were replying to them personally. Even in text, something like “I prefer Billie Jean, if you don’t mind.” could still work. I like “if you don’t mind,” because it doesn’t sound demanding. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to be called by your preferred name of course, but it can soften it if you’re concerned about ruffling feathers.

      1. Keyboard Cowboy*

        I do this pretty frequently when people try to shorten my name into a nickname. My name is (not really) Lucinda, I prefer to go by Lucinda, with the begrudging expectation of my family who has a tendency to still call me my infanthood nickname of LuLu. (And who’s going to correct their grandparents?) But when someone at work tries to call me Lu, I say, “Oh, please just call me Lucinda, I don’t like nicknames!” with a smile. Or if I have already a good rapport/friendship with someone I’ll be a little more forceful/humorous – “Don’t you dare call me Lu! That’s not my name!!! Argh! Haha!”

    4. foolofgrace*

      One of my pet peeves is when I get a reply to an email of mine and they misspell my first name — which is obviously right in front of them when they reply and yet they misspell it anyway. How hard is it to spell my name right? I’m always temped to misspell their name in my reply but of course I take the high road. But it bugs me and I feel very undervalued.

      1. Fish Microwaver*

        I get you. I have been at my office for 5 years. I have an ordinary name that can be spelled different ways, think Jarrod/Jared/Jarryd etc. Our org recently gave everyone a lapel badge with first name prominent and surname smaller. I am Jared, my badge says Jarred. When I mentioned that it would be nice if people’s names were spelled correctly my boss , who I have repeatedly told how to spell my name, sai ” oh well, we’re all human”. This same boss picks people to pieces for errors that are not their fault. I feel dismissed and disrespected.

  23. Not So Recently Diagnosed*

    This is so long, I’m sorry guys.

    So, this doesn’t really impact me, as I managed to move departments, but I wanted to get your opinions on something. In my old department, about a year ago, my manager left for a new position. This was a small department, only myself and my coworker. Well, I was the senior member of the team at that point, but had no interest in management (I know my strengths, management is not one of them). Rather than promote my coworker, they instead hired someone from outside the company. I was fine with this (coworker was not), and it’s been…an adventure.

    This new manager is incredibly incompetent. Don’t get me wrong, he is incredibly sweet, and genuinely wants to do well, but he is 100% computer illiterate. Our job is not IT, but works heavily in formatting documents in programs like Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and Nuance PDF. When he first started, he didn’t know how to save anything to a share drive. No problem, we taught him. And then we taught him again. And again. And again. Until finally, coworker and I just started going in and cleaning up his messes in the shared drive because that genuinely took less time.

    He prints off every email he receives and keeps them in files on his incredibly over-crowded desk. I had to teach him how to type in cells in Excel. Two or three times. When I was leaving the department and he would be taking over one of my duties, I sat down with him and took him through the process (this was the second time, I had done it about a month earlier also) and them made him a document with step by step instructions, including screenshots, of how to do it. Later that week, I heard from a coworker in another department that he had approached her and asked her to teach him the process, claiming no one would even SIT with him to show him. Even now he makes frequent mistakes in the process.

    We work a lot in pre-made Word templates. Now, I’m no formatting guru, but I can work in these templates just fine with a little trial and error to get things the way I want them. While we trained him (because we had to, he came from outside, and lets not even get into the way training your own manager can rub), he expressed that he liked to write out his responses in an unformatted document first, then paste it into the template, which was fine. I took him through how to do this and told him to let me check his work once he had done this, and please let me know if he had any questions. When he sent me his finished work, he had completely broken the template. I had to literally start from scratch on the document because he had broken the formatting on page 3 and had not asked me for help, just continued on for another 15 pages, finding new and interesting ways to destroy a Word template. This was meant to be his first “solo” mission, so to speak, and it ended up making twice or more the work for me. This happened so many times that the option became either to sit over his shoulder while he entered things into the formatted doc, taking us away from our work entirely, or to allow him to answer the work in his unformatted doc, and then have US enter it into the templates FOR him. Please understand, we weren’t being impatient, this went on for 6-7 months before I left the department and is still on-going. We went to our grand boss about it, but the sad truth is that, due to office politics, this guy isn’t going anywhere.

    There are about a hundred other examples, but that’s actually all just background. When I moved departments, they hired two people to replace me. As my manager is not able to work with the tracking program that is essential to our job, my coworker took over training them. My coworker is, understandably, pretty salty about the manager, seeing as coworker wanted the job to begin with and is now doing the job of a manager in training these recruits (as well as the admin duties in the tracking/reporting software that our previous manager handled). However, I still sit within earshot of the department, and know that during the training, coworker basically told the trainees that new manager is incompetent, a pain to work with, and that they should basically tune out some-to-most of what he says so that he doesn’t confuse them.

    Now, here is where I have the issue. I didn’t breathe a bad word about the man to the newbies at all while I was doing my part in training them. To me, it felt unfair. After all, just because we didn’t like him doesn’t mean someone new might not take to him in ways where they could both learn from one another. I feel like my coworker made it so that new-manager didn’t even have a chance with these new folks, and it rubs me the wrong way. I can already see the way they dismiss new-manager’s ideas (which aren’t all bad, really, it’s just his implementation that is infuriating), including knowing looks and eye rolls when he’s not looking. Maybe I’m just a little too caught up giving people the benefit of the doubt. While it’s true that the newbies would have realized the situation sooner rather than later, I feel like they should have at least been able to go in expecting to respect this guy, and that just…didn’t happen.

    So, what are your thoughts? Do you guys think it was fair and good for coworker to warn these guys? Or was it a bit of misstep on coworkers part?

    1. Reba*

      I think the eye-rolling and other disdainful behavior on the employees’ part is immature and unproductive, but I absolutely think it was right for your coworker to warn them. Just maybe not in the exact terms Coworker did. It sounds like the issues with that boss go well beyond the framing you give of “not liking him.” It’s not about being nice or giving him a chance or something. If I were in the new employees’ shoes and had not been warned in one way or another, I’d be angry about it.

    2. The Tin Man*

      I definitely thing it was a misstep for the exact reason you mentioned – it colored how they view him when they could have had a fine relationship with him.

      Thank goodness you are out of that mess in terms of job duties, if not office space.

    3. Angela B.*

      I had a similar situation at my previous job where a coworker who was leaving overlapped by about a month with a new person, and because they were similar in age and temperament, it made sense for them to hang together, but I’m pretty sure in that month, departing coworker completely destroyed new coworker’s faith in her department’s ability to function normally. There were definitely a lot of problems, but the end result was that new coworker went in with a terrible attitude towards her department almost from the get-go, and I really think it negatively impacted her morale even more than just figuring out the place was nutty would have done. Personally, I would have taken your approach and gone with if there’s nothing nice to say, say nothing. If it’s as bad as that, the new people will figure it out and figure out their own way to deal with it, but if you poison the well immediately, it creates this us versus them mentality and robs you of all the yay-new-job optimism that personally is so crucial to getting started somewhere new. Plus that takes away the chance for a new person to realize that actually they *can* work or connect with this difficult and/or incompetent person in a way that most everyone else doesn’t, so now maybe you’ve lost the incompetent-boss-whisperer you might have had.

      1. BlueWolf*

        I was the “new person” in a similar situation you describe. I took over for someone who was leaving and he was training me on his duties. He didn’t trash talk too much, but did mention some issues he had concerning our department’s management. He always tried to frame it as “not trying to scare me off, just giving me a heads up”. It made me a little concerned, but I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt and don’t rock the boat really, so I didn’t really let it color my opinion of anyone. However, I could see how someone else with a different personality might react differently.

        1. Angela B.*

          In this particular case personality was definitely a part of it, but I think that reinforces the point–you don’t know how a new person is going to react to the information, because they’re new! They might handle it well, like it seems like you did, or they might handle it badly, like my coworker. FWIW I think the best way to go about it if you *are* going to go about it is as you describe, the heads up approach rather than the talking trash approach.

    4. RVA Cat*

      “So, this doesn’t really impact me, as I managed to move departments…”

      Not your circus, not your monkeys. I’m sure other people overheard the bad-mouthing and some of them have more standing to do something that you do.

      1. Not So Recently Diagnosed*

        Oh yeah, as far as how much it actively concerns me, it’s minimal at best. I’m honestly just curious what people think. I have a reputation for being endlessly polite, to my own detriment (see the part where I know I’m not management material), so on a personal level, I sometimes want to check my reactions against a trusted populace to see if it’s something that’s worth looking into changing or working on.

    5. Jennifer*

      It’s debatable. I’ve tried warning someone about a bad manager (this one fires you if she decides she doesn’t like you) and it did no good. Now I give up.
      But I think it’s legit at the same time to warn someone that a manager is so incompetent that you shouldn’t be counting on them for anything. I don’t think I’d make it personal on the insults, but either they find out now or figure it out later.

    6. Double A*

      I’m in a similar situation, but in needing to diplomatically warn a new coworker about our support staff person. I tried to keep it to mentioning specific performance-related issues that can affect how we do our jobs, and expose us to risk. I also talked about her strengths. I did also mention that our personalities don’t mesh that well, so I try to be mindful of separating out performance from personality when discussing problems.

      But someone who can’t do their job despite intensive training, documentation, and hand-holding is infuriating. If you can’t use basic computer programs that are essential for your job, you are not qualified for your job.

    7. krysb*

      I had one of those as an employee… for 5 years. I moved him to sales. Not a helpful answer, but I totally commiserate.

    8. DaniCalifornia*

      I dont have any good ideas on what to do I’m sorry.

      BUT…you can absolutely make word templates that cannot be saved over. The person using them has to save them differently. I would suggest looking into that for the future!

    9. Not So NewReader*

      Since this type of thing happens all. the. time. I think that putting a negative or positive value on it is just wasting precious energy.

      Here’s the thing, when people are incompetent, other people WILL talk about them behind their backs. It’s a fact of life, it’s that predictable. Honestly, I can’t pay too much attention to people who want to portray everything as peachy keen when it isn’t. And going the other way, when I started working and tried to have a positive attitude all the time, I found that people tended to avoid me because I did not seem reality based. They believed I did not know how to handle problems that came up.

      I am not saying you are a person who portrays everything as peachy keen because, let’s face it, we don’t know each other. However, you are not in your coworker’s shoes.
      Think about this scenario: Coworker tells newbies, “Do A, B and C.” Boss sweeps through and says, “No, don’t do A rather do T instead. And when it comes to B, do X or Y. Then C, you can just skip.” So now the newbies are saying to your coworker, “WTH do we do now?!”
      And how many times could you go through this scenario before you start spitting nails? If you answer with a number greater than 3, you are a much better person than I am. Seriously, I can’t work like that.

      Overall it is what it is. We can’t protect people from their own selves. You could not protect this boss from his massive and constant mistakes and you can’t protect this cohort from making what seems to be a professional slips in judgement. This is simply cause and effect playing out. Incompetent bosses tend to draw out unprofessional behavior in most people. There is nothing you can do here but let it play out. You extracted yourself from this situation which is the best thing you could do.

    10. ..Kat..*

      You say he is sweet and genuinely wants to do well. You are being too kind. Instead of following the step by step instructions that you made for him, he went to someone else and LIED. He has done nothing to improve his computer skills – rather he wastes his employees time by making them go over and over the process with him. His employees waste time cleaning up his mistakes. This is not the behavior of someone who is sweet and genuinely wants to do well. That being said, would YOU have wanted to be warned?

  24. CurrentlyAnonDev --> SpaceNovice*

    I’ll be handing in my notice today because I’ve accepted a job offer! It’s a $10k raise, a much shorter commute, and they’ll give me a chance to learn how proper software engineering works while developing my own skills. No more being personally blamed for failures caused by a lack of personnel with expertise and no software development process. Not sure how my boss will react, but I no longer have to worry about the PIP that was setting me up for failure (trying to shove a year long development effort into 2 months, for starters). The new place not only has an internal training program but will pay for continuous education. They also have women software developers, including the one that interviewed me and made me more excited to join the company than anything else. She was awesome!

    Also, switching back to my regular account name and revealing myself. Thank you everyone here and Alison for helping me realize that I wasn’t crazy, that I needed to get out, and advice on how to do so! I’ll be taking a week vacation in between jobs as I know other commenters have done.

    A funny bonus: the HR manager at one of the other places ended up calling me to say they weren’t going with me but liked me personally; I just needed more skills to address some immediate needs and the assignments where I could get those skills were too far of a commute. We actually were fully in agreement and had a nice discussion including feedback on what I needed to learn. But I was entirely thinking of AAM during it since she CALLED me, ha. I don’t know if it was her usual MO or if it was that she read me as preferring it in that case.

      1. SpaceNovice*

        People really like working there because they get to decide their own projects and they hire for attitude/potential instead of straight up check-boxing what languages you know and don’t know. So yeah, I’m excited!

    3. Daughter of Ada and Grace*

      Congratulations! That’s so awesome that your new place has both the internal training and a continuous education budget! (Also a woman in software development, and the commitment to training/continuous education is one of the best parts of my current job!)

      1. SpaceNovice*

        There’s a lot of us women software developers here, I’ve realized! Which is great. I specifically looked for a company that does training/continuous development because I’ve seen how fast my skills can grow when given a chance, and my current company isn’t giving me one. Can’t afford how much I’m falling behind other candidates getting better experience.

    4. SpaceNovice*

      And my notice is turned in! He’s sad to see me go, but he says he understands why I did it in my position. He still things that I could’ve gotten the project done in time…. Poor guy.

    5. WalkedInYourShoes*

      Congrats! I am currently interviewing and feel like I am almost “there”. It’s great to hear your success story. Good luck!!!!

  25. Shy and Introverted*

    What do job listings really mean when they say they want someone with “Excellent *oral* and written communication skills?”

    For context, I’m a shy introvert who is horrible at phones, so I’m trying to avoid applying to jobs that require being on the phone a lot, spending a lot of time talking, or giving presentations.

    It seems like most jobs list a variation of “needs excellent oral communication skills.” I’m not sure if that’s a sign I should avoid the jobs, or if it’s just a generic thing that means “can talk coherently when needed” so I should be okay as long as the job listing doesn’t mention things like phones or presentations or frequent customer interaction.

    1. Amber Rose*

      I think that if the job listing doesn’t mention presentations etc. you should go ahead and apply, but also be careful during interviews to ask questions about how much speaking is involved.

    2. Flinty*

      Maybe I’m not understanding your question, but no, I don’t think “oral communication” is code for “on the phone all the time” unless there are other indications of needing to be on the phone a lot!

      1. Flinty*

        Ah, sorry, somehow got focused on the phone thing – you are also asking about presentations, etc. I still think it’s true that “oral communication” by itself usually just means that it’s not impossible to understand you when you speak.

    3. Sloan Kittering*

      Yeah this is a toss up, it can just mean they want someone they can talk to clearly (in person, like colleagues and your manager) or it can mean in presentations or on the phone. I’d apply but check what they expect from the position around these things.

    4. SophieChotek*

      I agree. First, I would say most jobs I have seen seem to throw that in.
      For more internal office jobs/not public facing – it may just mean “ability to communicate coherently with your co-workers, express your ideas, etc.”

      Like others have said – what other clues does the job describing/key qualification/key skills suggest:

      Such as:
      – be contact person for outside vendors (or stakeholders) [this could be mostly email, but it could be in person]
      – rep the company/brand at events [probably suggests feeling comfortable in groups/public settings]
      – present the brand at events or prepare reports [might suggest public speaking or at least internal presentation]
      – sales [almost guaranteed to suggest phone/in-person]
      – customer service [also almost guaranteed to suggest phone/in-person, unless you know from the get-go this company only does customer service via chat or something like that]
      – wording like “greet customers” or “be first contact for our clients” – probably phone or in-person….

    5. writelhd*

      It probably depends on the context of the job, but generally I would think if giving presentations is a big part of the job they’d say so–though that doesn’t mean you’ll never ever ever in your career have to give a presentation if they don’t say it, just depends on the role. And if it’s a job that requires a lot of phone time, that might be evident from the nature of the job–like sales or customer service rep. But that doesn’t mean you’ll never have to use the phone ever. So without other context I usually think it does mean “can talk coherently when needed” but with with the added element of “is game to talk occasionally on the phone, or speak up in meetings, or smile and pleasantly at customers when you pass them by in the hallway, and just in general be game to communicate to anyone as needed in any way needed” as job requires.

      I will add that I used to think I was terrible at speaking on the phone and was very nervous and afraid doing it. I struggle doing things like ordering pizza. And my role is not that of a sales or customer service rep where phone is a big piece of it, but I do have to call people sometimes, like vendors to ask questions, customers to give a piece of technical information to, agencies to ask technical questions, etc. I really very learned how to do it, and it doesn’t give me hardly any anxiety anymore. maybe a slightly difficult call might give me a little bit, but nothing at all like the crippling anxiety I used to feel.

    6. SpaceNovice*

      Most jobs seem to be throwing this in now. They usually mean “can actually talk to someone and explain an issue when it happens”. Companies want people who can use their words. In some companies, it might mean more.

    7. Mimmy*

      Ohhh I can completely relate to this! Before I got my current job as a part-time instructor (not like a classroom instructor–I work 1:1 with my students), I had every intention of find a job that was more “behind the scenes”. I’ve been looking again and I still recoil when I see ads that say they want “good oral/verbal” communication skills. I enjoy interacting with my students and many have said they enjoyed my class, I sometimes think I am not coming across coherently, especially when I’m trying to explain a technique.

      Anyway: As others have said, it is likely one of those catch-all phrases included in boilerplate job announcements. I like the idea of looking at how the job is described and inferring from that, though this can be difficult if the description is vague. I will keep following this thread for further ideas.

    8. Kuododi*

      A possible suggestion from a person raised by a painfully shy introverted engineer father. Daddy struggled most all of my life that I can remember with oral communication, phone conversation, presentations at work etc. Two things he did which he found quite helpful was to participate in Toastmasters, and Dale Carnegie courses. They really helped him to be more confident and comfortable with different methods of communication. (Disclaimer….he was never changed from an introvert to a high energy extrovert…..he simply seemed to find a healthy balance between the two extremes.). Best wishes to you.

  26. Nita*

    I have a (probably) stupid question about purses. After a few years with a backpack, I finally got myself a nice new purse. I think it was that post about backpacks looking unprofessional that tipped me over the edge. The new purse is just the perfect size to fit my things, no bigger or smaller. It doesn’t seem to be built differently from other purses I’ve had. Problem: all the papers in my purse somehow roll up. I tried keeping documents in a manila folder, but it also folds double and slides to the bottom of the purse. Even my spiral-bound notebook somehow rolls up. This morning I was convinced I’d lost it, until I pulled everything else out and found it nestled in an impossible position at the bottom. I don’t know, maybe my new bag thinks it’s a magic purse that should only carry scrolls, and is bigger on the inside than on the outside… but how do I keep my papers from looking all chewed up?

    1. T3k*

      Have you tested it with something sturdy, like hardbook cover material? I’ve found the only way to ensure my stuff doesn’t curl even a little bit in my purse is to put it inside my kindle case, sketchbook, etc.

    2. Fishsticks*

      You may want to get a skinny binder or folder that’s heavily reinforced to carry papers in. You could also try a clipboard, but I feel like that would just end with the papers getting ripped.

    3. Buckeye*

      Is there room in your purse for a padfolio to store everything? They’re usually sturdy enough to not roll up and can be found pretty cheap.

    4. Dawn*

      Hard sided document folder or portfolio! They come in tons of styles, from simple plastic to very fancy leather wrapped. Search “Document Folder” on Amazon and there should be some very useful results.

    5. Ambpersand*

      They make expanding plastic document folios/files that you can use that are sturdy enough they should stay in place and would fit in a purse. We use them all the time in our office and they’re typically big enough to fit both papers and notebooks in.

    6. TheMonkey*

      Sturdier pad-folio type thing? The leatherette/leather kind with the zipper around the outside should provide some more structure and resist the pull of your Bag of Holding.

    7. Curious Cat*

      I carry a tote to work, so I totally get this issue. It’s obnoxious! I recommend getting a hardcover folder or a very thin binder to keep all your papers in. I also made sure to buy a notebook that’s hardcover, as well (and I’ve had leather notebooks before, too, which don’t curl up).

    8. On Twos*

      A pressboard report cover might be sturdy enough to tuck your folder into without adding too much bulk. Even a plastic file folder will hold up a little better. (Yes, those are a thing! They’re pretty durable.)

    9. SpaceNovice*

      This is a physics problem. When you are carrying the purse, you move the purse up and down. The bouncing causes things to slowly slide, and the other contents help move the process along. You don’t move entirely straight up and down, so there’s some movement over time that just causes things to slide.

      Solution: you’ll need to get something entirely rigid that will hold your papers. Alternative solution: add some sort of pocket to one edge of the inside of the purse. Third solution: don’t put flexible stuff in it (this solution I don’t like, because I love purses that are perfect for me, and I totally get you). Last solution: if you have an inside pocket that’s near the same height of things you want to carry in your purse, you can clip things to it with a binder clip.

      Hard things can be: clipboard with a clip big enough to hold a notebook in place, a rigid fabric folder that would be less likely to slip, a thin enough rigid binder you can stick things in, a portfolio holder, etc. No need for anything specific. You find what works. You can probably reduce the sliding by having the item positioned on the side closer to you.

      This happens less with backpacks because they rest differently and tend to squish flat against contents within them, holding stuff in place. The force is directed downwards. Purses create a moment arm on objects stored near the edges, so things slide to the center. Especially if there’s heavy objects that are cruel and like to beat up other objects within it.

      1. Nita*

        Yes, I think the physics here are working against me! I bet it’s the giant lunch box being the bully and squishing everything else down. I didn’t think about making sure the papers are on the side closer to me, but will try and see if it helps!

        1. SpaceNovice*

          Oh yeah, probably 100% the giant lunchbox. It might actually pin it to the side of your purse if you put it in the other way! You could also try tying them to the lunchbox or putting them in a sleeve on the lunchbox if it has one. What you should do is check what’s going on your purse more often and make adjustments/changes until the problem is eliminated. Good luck!

      2. WillowSnap*

        I like pocket folders (yes like the high school kind!) instead of tabbed office file folders. They hold up better because of the coating.

    10. Mimmy*

      I’m curious about the type of purse you have – I’ve been using a backpack myself but mainly to hold shoes so that I can swap from shoes to sneakers for taking the bus. I know I could simply keep my sneakers in a drawer at work, but I only work 2-3 days a week, so it’s not feasible to do this. Plus, with the backpack, weight is evenly distributed, making the walk to and from the bus stop more comfortable (as opposed to a purse that’s weighted on just one side of your body, which is not healthy.)

      1. Nita*

        It’s kind of tote bag-shaped and soft, but not so soft it squishes flat if I put it down. Only, I’ve always had purses like that and this wasn’t a problem. Maybe this one just has an extra-slippery lining. And, yeah, it’s definitely less comfy than a backpack – but at least I don’t have to take it off to look for keys and other little things!

    13. RocketSurgeon*

      Clip board or piece of masonite cut to letter size.
      Or instead of using a spiral bound notebook get a Black&Red notebook (hardcover).
      Or get a slim vegan leather portfolio that will hold your papers.

  27. Wannabe Disney Princess*

    So, the co-irker I’ve complained about (chews out support staff AND vendors) has not gotten any better. Earlier this week a bunch of us went to lunch and all levels of management were there including my Great-GrandBoss (his GreatGreat-GrandBoss). They started discussing him. And his boss was defending his behavior saying he just gets flustered easily and that they’ll give him email templates to use externally.

    I mean, that doesn’t stop him from coming to my desk and steamrolling over me. Or sending me and the other admins accusatory emails. Or not taking responsibility. But, hey. At least he’ll have templates to use.

    1. Middle School Teacher*

      I don’t know if co-irker was intentional or a typo, but either way I love it and I’m stealing it :)

  28. BRR*

    Any tips for when you feel completely unvalued and unappreciated at work? My morale is pretty depleted. I’m a team of one and report to a manager who is only partially familiar with my area of work. He’s overall a good manager but just doesn’t understand what I do and it’s been a struggle to show how well I’m doing. I’m the first person to do what I do at my employer so there’s no internal comparison and my field doesn’t really have quantifiable metrics that I can measure myself against.

    In addition, I feel like people don’t respect what I do. There are projects that I should be involved with but my coworkers aren’t including me and they know what my role is. I’ve been strongly advocating for myself but it just seems like nobody understand the value that I bring. I never considered myself to be someone who needs external validation but apparently I need at least some.

    I would love to look for a new job but unfortunately I’m stuck here for a while because I’m not vested in my retirement plan and it’s a sizable amount of money. I would love to hear what advice people have. I’m in therapy but my amazing therapist is hit or miss when it comes to workplace matters. Thank you in advance! I really appreciate the wisdom of the commenting base here.

    1. Wannabe Disney Princess*

      I’m in the same boat. And I’ve started pointing out *why* I’m important/need to be included/I’m really freaking good at what I do. It feels weird at first. But I’ve noticed the more I point it out, the more others notice it.

      1. BRR*

        Thanks! I need to do better at this. One example is sticking out in my mind and it was effective.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Do you have any vacation time? Can you take some time off so they realize the impact that *not* having you around has?

      1. BRR*

        Ooh that’s a good idea. While I can’t take the amount of time off I need for my absence to be noticed, I think I can arrange things so they feel the difference of not having me around.

      2. Boat is sinking...*

        I’m in the same boat as BRR and I do have vacation planned, but its with my family where I get kind of treated second class there because I’m not married/have kids, so my vacation is just switching one undervalued environment to another.

        1. ..Kat..*

          Please please please consider vacations without your family. Your family does not need to know that you are not at work. Find people who value you and vacation with them, or just go somewhere by yourself. Or staycation.

    3. T3k*

      Mine’s probably not the best advice, but I just had to learn to detach myself from the situation. Essentially, I was in a similar job like that (even had one coworker who never used the programs I used say that my job was “easy” yet she couldn’t even grasp the basic functions of them). Eventually I realized nothing was going change in that job, and once I reached that point it became a “I’ll do what I can, but I’m not going to overexert myself” situation.

    4. Murphy*

      I have no advice, but I sympathize. I’m also an unappreciated team of one, and my manager has little interest in managing.

    5. writelhd*

      I can sympathize, I am in somewhat of the same position as you. I am the only one doing what I do. Some people do not understand it at all, a couple people are quietly and occasionally openly hostile to it and I have to work with them anyway, but I am fortunate that I have others here who do see the value of what I do, clients who value it, and my boss understands what I do to a point because he did it himself long ago–but not to the level that I do now, and a long time ago now.

      Even without it being as bad as you, I still feel like I just gotta go walk around the parking lot and think sometimes about how I’m coming off, what I’m fighting for, is any of this stuff I’m doing effective or working and ugh. Why is this person just hostile to me no matter what I do, ugh. One thing that has helped me recently is to read the book “The subtle art of not giving a f__#”. It helped me get over some of the free floating anxiety that comes from nobody understanding what you do but you and getting some hostility from some people about it. Another thing I did was try to do some drilled down, serious thinking about my job goals, and instead of trying to tackle all of them at once, I picked one project a month (or so) to actually do to completion. I tried to really think through what really were the most impactful to the company, and it does help me reaffirm the value of what I do. The book that stuff comes from is the book “the four disciplines of execution”–something my boss actually made all the managers do, and I found that some of those things did help me improve my feeling of value to the company.

      1. BRR*

        I’m definitely putting myself on the waitlist for the book at the library. I definitely have free floating anxiety about this and am looking forward to absorbing how it can help me improve my feeling of value.

    6. TCO*

      I’ve worked in a lot of “team of one” types of roles, and it can definitely be isolating. One thing I’ve found really helps is to develop a network (whether formal or informal) of your peers at other organizations. It eases the isolation and the group can be a good problem-solving resource for issues like bosses who don’t appreciate your role or the challenge of measuring your impact.

      I know this may or may not work for your situation but there’s a chance it could be helpful. I’m sorry; I know it’s tough to be in your position.

    7. SpaceNovice*

      Have they had it explained to them while your role is important? Why it helps their jobs be better? What you can do for them?

      My coworkers at my first job basically circumvented the configuration management process until I helped them understand the benefits. It also really helped that I was open to their feedback. What you’re doing is new to the company and they’re unfamiliar with how it helps them.

      Your position is new, so it’s not surprising they don’t understand the value you bring, and they can’t just magically understand it, either. It’s entirely normal for everyone to be frustrated, both you and them, with that. They might also be afraid to look like idiots around you and thus won’t include you, because that would mean they have no idea how your job works.

      They need training and materials to back up that training. But you also need to work with your manager to develop a way to start getting your position integrated into projects more formally. Pilot project, then start building out your position in other projects from there. Make adjustments and allow people to give you open feedback, making sure to emphasize that your job will be custom to their needs, and you are there to make their lives easier. Perhaps talk to people you work well with to get their opinions on this entire thing. If people are heard and have some sort of say in what happens AND know how it benefits them, people will accept new things.

      That’s basically how I went from 0% compliance to 100% compliance for the configuration management process. People were not afraid to ask me questions or give me feedback because I always was warm, never considered anyone stupid, and appreciated their views. More than once, we made changes to how we did things because someone else pointed out they had a unique challenge that made the process different from them.

      Good luck! It’s entirely solvable.

  29. LibrarianNoMore*

    Hi All!

    I’m in a bit of a pickle and am running out of ideas. I’m a Librarian, but I am 1000% certain that the job isn’t for me. Between the sexual harassment, physical harassment, and lots of other stuff (sidenote, please don’t touch your librarian without permission!!!), I don’t ever want to work in another Library again. Ever. (This includes academic and special libraries.)

    I started applying for jobs six months ago, but no one wants to even consider me. I’ve followed all of AAM’s advice religiously (and rewritten my resume a bunch based on it!) but suspect my jumpy background (I worked for a few years in different jobs before getting my Masters) is hurting me big time.

    I still want to stay in research, and have found jobs that work…but I get no where. I had a great phone interview, but afterwards I got a rejection. I’ve even tried just starting out as entry level in other roles (like PR or communications), nada.

    I can’t stay here forever. I can’t afford to quit, and I’d really rather not have to. I’ve been here for two years, and I’d rather transition straight to another job so there’s no gap on my resume.

    I have been networking, have tried contacting recruiters (they don’t even respond once they’ve seen my resume). I’ve written a billion versions of my resume, and just as many personalized cover letters.

    Am I missing anything? Is there anything else I can do? I feel like I’ve screwed up big time, and don’t know how to get out of this mess. Any thoughts/advice is much appreciated. (Oh, and besides using AAM I’ve also asked trusted people for advice, and no one has anything beyond what I’ve already done.)

    1. BetsCounts*

      not much advice but I’m sorry the field is so gross for you! I am so grateful to all the librarians I had when I was a kid, both in school libraries and at the public ones so hearing that the job is lousy is v disappointing. Do large law/architecture/design firms have need for archives management? I imagine it must be hard for companies to understand why you want to leave a position/industry you spent so long getting qualified for, but I’m sure you touch on that in your cover letter. Sending good thoughts!

      1. FutureLibrarianNoMore*

        I’m glad to hear that you’ve had so many wonderful librarians. There are many fantastic people in the field fortunately!

        Thank you, I appreciate it!

    2. Sloan Kittering*

      Okay, totally off the wall, but I have a friend in a similar situation and they decided to just start over – went to bartending, said they’d rather work an hourly job than stay in their public-facing, but no protection from the public job. They’ve made a whole career in the trades now, are a restaurant manager with a passion for brewing, seem perfectly happy and don’t regret their choice. Sometimes blue-er collar fields have less emphasis on having this perfect past resume, and you can always keep your eyes out for that corporate librarian/research job while doing something you enjoy more day to day?

      1. FutureLibrarianNoMore*

        Unfortunately I can’t afford to do that :( I wish I could and appreciate the idea!

    3. Catwoman*

      Is there any kind of volunteering you might be able to do to help you get more relevant experience for the roles you’re interested in? For example, if you’re thinking about museum work, could you volunteer as a docent to network and learn about the work?

      1. EB*

        That was my thought– I was also thinking reaching out to people in the field and doing informational interviews (a la “Designing Your Life” a book I highly recommend to LibrarianNoMore). In this case she could pick up valuable information about the jobs she’s interested in AND perhaps also get advice from people in the field on how she can target her cover letters/resumes better. Would definitely take some legwork but should be doable as a weekend/evening type thing where you don’t have to quit your dayjob.

      2. FutureLibrarianNoMore*

        I don’t think so, unfortunately. I’ve looked, and most volunteer jobs around here are either helping at animal shelters (which, awesome! but can’t just pet puppies forever haha) or loading/unloading things.

        I will definitely keep my eye out though, thank you!

    4. LibraryBug*

      I feel you. I’m on my way out of libraries but I’m pursuing a certificate/2 year degree to transition into a completely different field.

      I’m not very informed on the field you’re trying to break into so I have no advice about whether or not the long job search is normal or not.

      Is it possible to temp? That might at least get you out of a position that you hate, give you some experience in the field and hopefully build some connections?

      1. FutureLibrarianNoMore*

        I’ve tried contacting recruiting firms and they don’t even reply :(

        Can I ask what certificate you decided to get?

    5. SpaceNovice*

      You’re looking for a company that would be okay with you transitioning to another career as a newbie, basically. If you’re already addressing that in your cover letter and interviews, good. Employers will totally take a chance on a candidate switching from one field to another, though, so don’t give up!

      If you want to stay in research, maybe look into data analytics? Or something else related to that. In some cases, you can find certificates that are widely respected in an industry that you can get to PROVE you can do something. You need to somehow prove you can do the work. You have good skills of dealing with everyday people, so that’ll be good for things like business analysis, if you learn the generality of what you need to do. If people think that you’re just changing jobs without a plan, they’ll reject you. But if they realize you’re SERIOUS, that you’ve given it thought, that you’re really ready for that change, many more will take a chance.

      Find a thing in particular you want to go into and laser focus on learning some general information about industry norms, what’s important, etc. You’ll start using some of the same language that employers are looking for naturally. Add that with realizing what you have a passion for, and you’ll definitely get hired.

      Good luck!

    6. Anon anony*

      I have my library degree, but diverged and went into special libraries like non-profit-associations (which might be a great option for you with your research background.) I also have experience working with records management. Museums might be another option? I’m trying to think of options that would work with your academia and research experience. Keep looking and as others have noted, volunteering somewhere might be a great way to get your foot in the door.
      I’m sorry that you’re so miserable in your current place. I hope you find your dream job soon!

    7. Grits McGee*

      Have you looked into records management? I’m a government archivist, so I’m not sure what the private sector looks like, but it should let you use the IS of your MLIS.

      As far as research, this is going to depend on your geographic location, but I have a friend who was able to get a job as a researcher for a think tank in the DC area. Pay wasn’t that great, but the free food was!

      1. FutureLibrarianNoMore*

        I tried, but I’ve only found jobs that required a HS diploma, so I assume they just don’t have the same level of job where I live (Midwest).

        Unfortunately I can’t afford to live anywhere else at this point, and I already moved here from another part of the country. I’m still paying off debt from the move, so I’d rather not add to that.

    8. LilySparrow*

      I had a temp job once for a media company in the products/merchandising division. They kept an archive of video, still images, concept sketches, prototypes, presentation boards, and all that sort of thing. A lot of it was digital, but there were also physical items and of course a lot of things were stored on CD/DVD for space reasons.

      The archivist definitely needed library skills and was a big help to designers doing research on older products.

      I’d imagine that many types of firms that aren’t purely “research” oriented would need similar types of archives. Anything dealing with physical product design, marketing campaigns, all kinds of things.

      As a matter of fact, one of my current freelance clients makes home-and-garden products and has a massive database of marketing images and packaging designs. I don’t know if they have an archivist, but they could use one!

      Maybe broadening your search to different industries.

  30. Tableau Wizard*

    I was looking up a recent applicant on Linkedin, and I can see that we’re 2nd degree connections, but I can’t figure out how to see who we have in common.

    I swear, I used to be able to do this. Did something change? Am I missing some feature that I don’t know about? Is there a way for individuals to disable this feature?

    1. Murphy*

      I just took a look, and I can’t figure it out either. I went to one of my connections pages and on there it showed our mutual connections, but not on a 2nd degree.

    2. Delphine*

      If you search for their name in the search bar it should tell you the shared connection in the results.

    3. Llama Wrangler*

      On my LinkedIn, if I click on their profile, there second section (under name, connect, etc) says “Highlights” and then it lists our connections.

  31. Queen of Cans and Jars*

    How do you avoid being negative about your job in an interview? I’m trying to leave because my current workplace is about 95% dysfunctional. I just had a phone screen & they asked me about my experience with several things that I would LOVE to do if I could get buy in from my colleagues and/or some kind of resources. It was really hard to come up with an answer that wasn’t, “well, if things weren’t so screwed up, this is what I’d do.” The tasks are things that are normally associated with my role. I’d love some suggestions from the commentariat!

    1. Kalros, the mother of all thresher maws*

      Yikes, been there. You have my sympathy.

      I’ve had some success navigating these questions by saying things like “At Employer, Other Team has responsibility for Project,” and then proceeding with “this is what I’d do if it were my responsibility,” as you do. Where I ran into most issues was the actual knowledge gap that came from not owning the tasks normally associated with my role. IME, it’s hard to not be negative about it when it’s so obvious how badly it’s affecting your professional growth. But people do hire candidates with strong knowledge, judgment and professionalism that make up for an experience gap. Practice your creative spin wording to gloss over your employer’s shortcomings, talk up the experience you do have as well as your ideas, and trust that you won’t be stuck in your current situation forever.

      It’s a very tough spot but you are so far from alone in having this issue. Good luck!

    2. CAA*

      You really don’t have to avoid saying anything negative, just be honest and factual, even if the facts are negative. It’s fine to say things like “unfortunately I don’t have much experience in that are because my current company doesn’t follow that practice, but I’m familiar with it and would implement it by …” or even “actually, one of the reasons I’d like to move on from my current position is because I don’t have the opportunity there to do that task, and it’s something I’ve always wanted to do. I think it’s important because …”

      1. Kalros, the mother of all thresher maws*

        +1 – this is a better way of putting what I was trying to say above. Being matter-of-fact is fine and good, you don’t have to editorialize but you also don’t have to try to cover for what’s wack at your current job.

        1. tra la la*

          I’m actually really glad to read this. I have been trying to leave a dysfunctional workplace for awhile and my last second-round (full day) interview left me very spooked because I did have to answer a number of questions by explaining how my workplace does things (often in problematic ways — which I can’t help, hence my applying elsewhere!). I was really interested in the job — it would have let me draw on my strengths in much more positive ways, and I so wanted to focus on what I could bring to *that job*. The various interviewers kept responding by saying things like “why is your workplace doing it THAT way?” and I wouldn’t know what to say, because I *agreed* that it didn’t make sense and *wanted* to be somewhere where things might not be done that way, but felt that I was being too negative. (I am in a field that REALLY values positivity). Finally I got kind of called out towards the end for being too negative and was asked how I would fix the problems at my current workplace. I kept it together but I felt like bursting into tears — if I knew how to do that, would I be interviewing someplace else? I haven’t been on another second-round interview since (I’ve been taking a break from the job market for some personal reasons) but the experience left me really unsettled.

          1. Kalros, the mother of all thresher maws*

            Oooof I felt this in my gut. Sorry you had that experience. Been there too – once had an extremely awkward interview where the person kept asking me to back up and explain how my (now-officially-former!) employer does things because he couldn’t wrap his head around why it was so weird. At the time it felt so unfair because it felt like I was being taken to task over decisions that weren’t mine, but I couldn’t just outright say what I felt without sounding like I was throwing my employer under the bus.

            Generally, though, I could explain any weirdness as “it’s a large organization.” Which is a partial truth – I didn’t have to add “and it’s stuck in the mud even compared to similarly-sized peers, and toxic to boot.” If pressed I’d say something like “senior leadership feels that [dumb thing, described neutrally] serves the organization best” or “I would like to see X implemented, but we’re not ready for that at this stage” or something, and move on quickly. So I guess if I had any advice to offer it would be find some neutral-sounding way to explain away what sucks and some neutral-sounding way to explain why you want something different so you’re not like “please for the love of everything holy, save me from this dysfunctional mess.”

            Good luck!

            1. tra la la*

              Aww, thanks for responding. I like the idea of “we’re a big organization.” Actually, what I kept saying was that we’re a very siloed organization (which is 1000% TRUE, is a common issue in my field, something I do not like about where I work, and I’m one of the rare people working as part of a strong crossdepartmental team which gets no attention, so… PLEASE LET ME UNSILO, teamwork YAY!) and then I got called out on that I was saying that too much! That and some other things about the interview made me feel like they had made up their mind about me before I got there and were primed to take me saying anything other than that as just me making things up. Maybe I need to just decide I dodged a bullet???

  32. August*

    I’ve got an interview coming up (yay!), but I’ve got some anxiety about it. It’s the first interview I’ve ever gotten using networking– I knew the woman who used to manage the position, and when I let her know I was applying, she offered to pass on my resume and act as a reference– but I can’t help but feel like I’m cheating? The youngest person on the team is ten years older than me, the salary is higher than I’ve seen for other entry-level positions, and the job description is just vague enough that I can’t tell how much experience the position requires. I can’t shake the feeling that this is just a pity or nepotism interview.

    Adding on to my anxiety is that fact that I just found out I have pneumonia, and had to call the reschedule the interview (which was initially meant to be on Monday). Does anybody have any experience with/tips for fighting this kind of anxiety? At this point, I feel like I’m going to walk into that interview and completely blow it.

    1. Ambpersand*

      Honestly, as someone with pretty bad anxiety myself, you need to stop thinking about it. That’s only going to make things worse. Focus on getting plenty of rest and feeling better and practice your interview skills in the meantime. You wouldn’t have gotten the interview if your contact didn’t think you were a viable candidate. So many people get jobs through someone they know or an “in,” it’s so common! I got my last two jobs because I knew someone. I hope you feel better soon though, and good luck!

    2. OtterB*

      You’re definitely not cheating. It doesn’t sound like the connection is close enough for a pity or nepotism interview – they don’t want to waste their time and wouldn’t have you in if they didn’t think you were a viable candidate.

      Seconding the advice to rest up and feel better.

      And go by Alison’s usual advice that the interview is a two-way street. They want to hire a successful candidate, and you want to be hired into a role you will succeed in. I suggest you go back over your relevant experience and, since you’re having anxiety that sounds like it might lead you to downplay your skill, sum it up for yourself with an emphasis on a positive spin. (Instead of “I really have very little experience in Z, although I’ve done some X and Y,” you would be more like, “In Projects A and B I used my skills at X and Y to help achieve the team goals. I haven’t had full responsibility for task Z, but I’ve done this and that piece of it and it’s an area where I’d like to grow.”)

    3. Jules the Third*

      You’re not cheating – they’ll figure out if they think you’ll fit the position, and the position specs / pay were set before you applied.

      Rest and practice if you can. Gaming out various issues (ie, someone asks ‘do you really think you’re qualified for this job’ and you reply, ‘I think it would be a stretch, but one that I am capable of making because skills a, b, c are transferable) will help soothe your anxiety.

    4. SpaceNovice*

      People won’t offer that unless they like the candidate. So she likes you. It kinda does feel like cheating, I know. But a good candidate can be taught to do anything, even if it means it’ll take some time to get up to speed. My brother ended up in a position far senior to what he really should be in because his boss liked him from a previous job and knew he could be taught whatever he needed to know.

      Look into more about what sort of questions that you’ll be asked in similar positions and prep for them. Index cards with questions on one side and answers on another (flash cards, basically) are a great way to practice things. A great way to reduce anxiety about unknowns is to… well, reduce the unknowns. Even if you only figure out one or two answers a night, then you’re one or two more answers prepared for the interview.

      Good luck!

      1. SpaceNovice*

        Also, I forgot to say the source: Glassdoor has an “Interview” section for companies and you can look up local companies. Often, people will state one or more questions they were asked. Sometimes you find the favored questions of an organization, but at worst, you get an idea of what similar organizations are asking.

    5. Double A*

      One thing I would suggest is to go ahead and acknowledge that you’re recovering from being ill in the interview! I just sat in on an interview with a woman who I kind of think may have been sick, but she didn’t say anything about it, so she just seemed low-energy and uninterested. Or maybe she was low-energy and uninterested. It was hard to tell.

      My point is, don’t be afraid to provide some context for if you sound a little rough. Even though obviously some of the people who are interviewing you know about your illness, not every sitting in might.

  33. Kalros, the mother of all thresher maws*

    Today is my last day at Current Job and I’ve been like “HELL YEAH I’M OUTTA HERE” for the past two weeks… and then this morning I found myself choking up while writing thank-you cards to my team members. It’s so strange, I was so anxious to leave it all behind and not look back, but now I have some space to think about the things I’ll miss. Even in a not-great job there were moments of companionship and learning from each other, and I’m really grateful for that. And all the frustrations of this place have taught me patience and discipline, along with diplomatic conflict resolution and creative problem-solving. I’ve gone from feeling like I’ve stagnated to realizing all the ways I’ve grown, just not the ways I expected or wanted, but didn’t even realize I needed.

    When did I get so sappy? Ugh.

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      Aww, I do feel you. I wrote above about how happy I was to be leaving my job, but I know it’ll teeter back and forth between what I said and what you’re saying. I think that’s just the way it goes. Change is scary, growing up is hard, etc. I hated high school but also got weepy at graduation if I recall.

      1. Kalros, the mother of all thresher maws*

        Ha, yes, same. I just read your above post – that’s how I’ve felt about putting on the “so bittersweet to leave!” face – it hasn’t been bittersweet at all to me until today, I was just straight-up lying to people (may have hated the job but I wasn’t trying to hurt anyone’s feelings, so). It does feel a little like graduating high school. The feeling of moving on and leaving a chapter of your life behind is poignant, even if what’s waiting ahead of you is thrilling.

    2. Catwoman*

      You’ve got a case of graduation goggles. It’s totally normal and it will fade. Once you’re gone, you’ll romanticize certain parts of it, and be able to see how you grew more clearly. But if you keep in touch with your soon-to-be-former colleagues, you’ll also likely be reminded of all the reasons why you left when they talk about the office.

        1. Kalros, the mother of all thresher maws*

          Hahahaha this is perfect and completely spot-on, thanks!

  34. YRH*

    About seven weeks ago, I applied for a job at Company X and haven’t heard anything. About three months ago, I met a couple of people from Company X at a conference and decided that I wanted to get coffee with them and learn more about their work. However, I was in the middle of a particularly busy period and knew I wouldn’t have time until June. Now that my busy period is over, I would like to email them about getting coffee. Because of the pending application, how long should I wait to contact them? Sometime after the 4th of July? Thanks!

    1. Ali G*

      Just contact them now. As long as you don’t mention the job at all (which I wouldn’t do regardless of timing), it shouldn’t matter. It’s likely it will take a while to find a time/place that works for everyone, so by the time you meet it could be resolved one way or another.

  35. Teapot librarian*

    Yikes. I have a huge deadline of next Friday so I really need to be not here on the open thread. That said, I sometimes have a problem focusing on my work, even (or especially) when I have a big deadline. What do you all listen to when you need “noise” to keep you focused?

    1. rageismycaffeine*

      Vitamin String Quartet! There’s no words to focus on, though sometimes I do get a little distracted when I recognize the song. It’s my go-to for focusing. I just search them on Spotify, hit “see all” next to songs, and shuffle play for hours.

    2. The Tin Man*

      I’ll listen to instrumental music, sometimes even the same song on a constant loop. I’m with you in this being a struggle for me but that is one of my things that helps sometimes.

    3. Ree*

      I always listen to non lyrical music. Usually piano, but anything kind of mellow that doesn’t have a melody I recognize(because that will distract me, haha!)
      The Planet Earth 2 soundtrack is good too!

    5. AdAgencyChick*

      Bodega Sounds playlist on Spotify. Exactly what it sounds like. I don’t know enough Spanish to be distracted by the words, and the music just settles into the background of my brain nicely.

    6. Sloan Kittering*

      I have a playlist for butt-kicking work. It’s upbeat pop music with a driving beat. I think I’ve now trained my brain that when I hear those songs, it’s really time to stop f*ing around and get to work. Protip, I use them like pomodoros, like I’ll say, “I’m just going to work on this intensely for this one song at least” – to get over my mental hurdle of sitting down to start a task. I can faff around on the internet for hours trying to get started on something.

    7. On Twos*

      Depends on my mood but I like to listen to some 8-bit video gamey and electronic stuff. I’ve got a bunch of DJ Cutman, Anamanaguchi, Demoscene Time Machine, Ben Briggs, Monomer, Ubiktune on some soundcloud playlists.

    8. BRR*

      It depends on my mood but I often find NPR good for background noise that I sort of tune out.

    9. Anonymosity*

      Film scores!
      It’s basically all I listen to these days. No singing; it distracts me, so if my online radio station starts playing tracks from musicals, I tap out. If I can’t stream the station, I have an extremely large collection of albums on my phone and computer.

      1. RainyDay*

        Late to the party, but ABSOLUTELY second this! Depending what kinds of scores you go for, you can get the energy from upbeat pop, but without any distracting lyrics. Google Play has an Epic Film Scores playlist that’s really good.

    10. SpaceNovice*

      I have a huge, HUGE playlist on amazon prime music of just generic battle music. There’s also hours and hours long music playlists like that on YouTube. Generally no words in the vocals and it’s not distracting.

    11. miyeritari*

      I love the “music for concentration” spotify playlist (link in name). It’s just low piano and it really chills me out. I also like folk pop/indie mucisians like darlingside, heather maloney, the oh hellos, etc.

    12. Lupin Lady*

      Spotify was covered, but I too have this problem. I find that the focus for 25 minutes, break for 5 minutes can really help. Although admittedly I’m not using it now….

    14. LilySparrow*

      I don’t enjoy it a lot, but the “binaural beats” playlists on Spotify really do work when I need to drop in and focus to the point that I lose time.

      For more general “stay on task and get stuff done,” I like French torch songs and old-fashioned “hot jazz.” It’s fluid and energetic, and I don’t understand the words enough to distract me.

    15. MamaGanoush*

      Dance or hook-heavy pop music with lyrics in a language I don’t understand. I find that toe-tapping, head-bopping, quietly singing bom-bom-bom along with the music is great for feeling energized and focused, while the mysterious language means I’m not distracted by lyrics. This past week for instance I played a lot of Dengue Fever (I don’t understand a single word of Khmer!).

  36. rageismycaffeine*

    When I arrived at this job, I was sat down by grandboss and informed that as far as she was concerned, I worked for her, and given very specific instructions for how she wants things executed – I have to prep reports for her teapot sales meetings. Everyone else – including my actual boss – thought that I would be splitting my time equally between that, and generating new leads for our other teapot salesmen. Instead, all of my time is invested in writing these reports, and I have no time for generating leads.

    I had grandboss’s second in command tell me yesterday, to my face (and my boss’s), that in her opinion I’m “making excuses” for why I’m not generating leads, and “it can’t be as complicated as I’m making it out to be.” She thinks I should be able to train her admin to do it. Said admin was in the room, so I just bit my tongue and glared and said nothing, because when you’re already being accused of making excuses, any attempt to defend yourself is just going to be seen as more of the same.

    If it’s so simple that anyone can do it, why did they recruit me really hard and have me relocate here from several hours away? I’ve been in the teapot sales industry for many years, speak at the national conference for teapot sales research, and frequently receive calls and emails for my advice from others in the industry – but obviously, her admin can do my job. (This is not to slight the admin at all, because I’m quite sure that if I had any time to train her she could become very good at this – but it would take months.)

    I’m still angry about it, and I still think she owes me an apology. My boss has talked with her and it’s clear I’m not going to get one. She’s the type who’s going to smile and be chatty and act like nothing happened, but won’t hesitate to throw me to the wolves if I remotely fight back.

    Not looking for advice, just ranting. This sucks.

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      So you are getting conflicting instructions from your direct supervisor and her supervisor? That sounds incredibly frustrating and like something they need to sort out between themselves.

      1. rageismycaffeine*

        To be clear, my boss (hereafter Ned) and the person accusing me of lying (hereafter Cersei) are at the same level on the org chart – both of them report to the same person, my grandboss (hereafter Olenna). Cersei’s title is higher than Ned’s. Ned’s understanding of my role was evidently different from Olenna’s, and unfortunately, what Olenna says goes, so if Olenna thinks that all I should be doing is writing sales reports, then that’s all I’m going to be doing.

        But Olenna apparently didn’t communicate to Cersei that that’s all that I’m doing, and Cersei doesn’t believe me when I say that that’s all I have time to do. Hence the “making excuses” part.

        It’s really Olenna that needs to take responsibility on this one for what my workload is, but she doesn’t see it as an issue.

        1. Sue Donym*

          It sounds like you report dotted-line to Olenna if she’s directing your work content and that she cut Ned out of the loop, which wasn’t your problem originally (she shouldn’t have done that) but is to the extent that he needs to know that Olenna is calling your shots so he can defend you to Cersei*. But you probably won’t be getting an apology from someone for impugning your work ethic if she’s willing to do so with very little knowledge of the situation.

          * Cersei really shouldn’t have any input if she’s not in your direct line of command, so yeah, she’s overstepping by implying that you’re not doing your job. If it’s not a one-off, can you innocently suggest she take her suggestions re: training admin up with Olenna when she says stuff like this? Let Olenna explain to her subordinate why she’s having an experienced professional handle these reports and making them higher priority than generating leads.

    2. Ciara Amberlie*

      How long have you been there? Because honestly, this would be a deal-breaker for me. It sounds like you have amazing experience and lots of connections, is getting a new job out of the question?

      1. rageismycaffeine*

        It’s been just a little over four months, and yeah, I’m pretty dealbroken. The problem is that I moved to a pretty rural location where this is more or less the only gig in town, and brought my partner with me, and he’s doing fine at his job. I don’t really have that many other places to go without switching fields, and I LIKE my field. :(

        1. WillowSnap*

          This sucks, but if grandboss (hereafter Olenna) is the one dictating what you really work on then it sounds like Cersei needs to butt out. Obviously Olenna wants you to do the reports and thinks it’s more important over everything else.

          In this situation, all I can say is document, document, document.

  37. Snubble*

    I have an interview next week for a kind of sideways promotion at my current organisation. It would be reporting to my favourite of the four people I primarily work for, and take me out of the reporting line of my least favourite. But it would also be a move towards more llama herding, instead of alpaca herding, which is where I’ve got a better qualification and had been planning to focus. The immediate payrise wouldn’t be much, but the top rate for the role would be some £3k higher. I know that doesn’t look much but the difference between £21k and £24k really is significant.
    Also, I’m moving house this weekend, and it is stressing me out badly, so I’m not in the best place for preparing interview materials and making career decisions.

  38. Wednesday*

    How do you decline a networking lunch when you know there’s little to no real benefit of talking to the other person? I had a male co-worker recently try to set up a two-hour (!?!) networking lunch with him, me, and a local woman, who’s loosely in a field I have a background in. I looked her up, she’s slightly younger than me, impressive on paper…but I can’t really relate to the work she’s done, and taking two hours out of my workday so she can give me career insight seems wasteful of my time. I tried turning it down by citing my busy schedule, which is true, but he’s gone to bat to try and work around my schedule and get the meeting on the books… I just don’t know how to explain my disinterest politely.

    1. Flinty*

      What is the point of the lunch? It to benefit the company or more just your coworker? Or does he think he’s doing you a favor?

      1. Wednesday*

        It was unclear, but I believe he thinks I would be interested to meet and talk with her. There is no possible way this meeting could benefit the company as I’m now in a different field.

        1. irene adler*

          Can you send some one in your place whom you know would be interested? A co-worker perhaps? A friend?
          Beg off with the too-busy excuse and then suggest that co-worker Mable attend as she has a common interest with the background of this local woman.

        2. Sloan Kittering*

          If you’re at all interested you could also say explicitly, “unfortunately with my schedule I would only have time for a coffee, say 20-30 minutes” – like with dates, you meet for drinks and are sure to schedule a (possible) Hard Stop after however long you want to have a reason to leave. But if you’re really not interested no need to do that.

    3. CAA*

      Are you sure he’s trying to help you rather than having you help the other woman? If you are, and you’re willing to shut him down forever, there’s nothing wrong with saying “I really appreciate the offer, but I just don’t need this type of introduction or networking assistance right now.”

      1. Thlayli*

        Yeah if she’s younger than you and you have left the field she’s in, it sounds more like he’s hoping you will give her advice rather than the other way round.

      1. Camellia*

        Hah! I came here to say this too. That he is using this excuse to get the other woman into a semi-social situation that is ‘safe’ because another woman is there, but still gets his foot in the door, so to speak.

      2. LilySparrow*

        Well, it occurred to me that he might be trying to do the younger woman a favor because he likes her or is dating her. That’s not necessarily something to be cynical about, except that he didn’t say so up front.

        I’d just ask him straight-up what the purpose of the meeting is, and why he needs to be there. If he just wants to make an introduction that doesn’t take 2 hours.

        There’s no need to beat about the bush. It’s not insulting to say, “Honestly, I’m not sure what the purpose of this lunch is supposed to be, as I’m no longer in that field. Could you tell me more about why you want to set this up, and why it needs to be such a large block of time?”

  39. Job Searching Novice*

    Hi all, I’m looking for some help regarding interview prep. I’ve secured an interview for a position that I’m very exited about at the local college and am looking for some advice regarding potential situational questions that might be posed at an interview at a post-secondary institution. This is for an operational vs teaching role but I want to make sure I’m as prepared as possible as I try to move to a completely new environment. Also, if anyone has any follow up questions that are especially pertinent to post-secondary jobs that would also be appreciated! Thanks in advance for any help!

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      I felt silly doing this, but role playing with a friend actually really helped me (also with any difficult conversation I’m trying to have, or asking for a raise). I needed to practice getting the words out of my mouth in the moment.

    2. SpaceNovice*

      Glassdoor has a section for “Interviews” at various companies. A lot of the entries will actually give a sample question or two that they were asked. You can look up both the local college and also at similar institutions nearby for insights.

      1. SpaceNovice*

        Also forgot to add: make flash cards of common questions you find. Prepare answers written first and then practice verbally. It really helps!

    3. Pam*

      My experience is you will get a lot of ‘Tell me about a time when you…
      dealt with a difficult student/client; had to recover from a mistake; worked in a team, etc.

      In the US at least, expect a question on FERPA- educational privacy act.

    4. Hazelthyme*

      Agree that you should be prepared for the “tell me about a time when you …” questions. Google “behavioral interview questions” or “STAR interview questions” for a list to get you started, and then practice answering them aloud. I just did this last week, and found that having several good examples from my career that I was prepared to talk about in detail was really helpful in the moment.

      Check both the college’s main website, and any sites or pages operated directly by the department you’d be working for. On the main site, look for basic facts about the school (# students/faculty/staff, # majors or departments, whether there are multiple schools or colleges within a larger university, etc.) and recent news articles/releases. (Check the local paper in the college’s town for this, too.) On the department’s site, get a sense of what they emphasize, what their mission is, major initiatives or current projects, etc. Bonus if some of what you find leads to interesting questions you can ask when given the opportunity.

      Not sure exactly what your role would be, but you might also want to look up current issues in residence life/ student affairs/ student accounts/ college HR/ fundraising or whatever part of the college you’re applying to. Colleges are complex organizations, so while some issues will be common to most or all the campus community, others will have more in common with people doing similar jobs at other universities or even in other kinds of organization. For example, working in a college development office is probably a lot more similar to other nonprofit fundraising and development than it is to campus judicial affairs.

      Remember that the college’s bottom line isn’t making a profit (in most cases) but educating students, supporting faculty, and advancing knowledge. Working that into every answer would be laying it on a bit thick, but if you recognize and acknowledge how the job you’re applying for contributes to that mission, it can’t hurt.

      Good luck!

      1. Job Searching Novice*

        Thank you for that detailed response, that gives me a lot to work off of.

      2. Easily Amused*

        Allison has a free interview prep guide right here. I went over it before my interview a few days ago and it sounds like what you’re looking for! You’ll have to Google it – my iPad tends to get a bit crashy when I type in these comment boxes.

  40. Hiring with the low unemployment rate*

    What has everyone’s experience been like, both from the job hunting and hiring perspective, as the unemployment rate has gone down?

    I’ve noticed that several jobs I interviewed for this past winter have never been filled, and have also been reposted (so it’s not like they decided against hiring at all). They were all technical or semi-technical with low pay (for example, one was a database manager job for a salary of $45,000 in a big city). I’m trying to transition to a data career. I bring some skill/experience to the job but also need to learn, so I thought that type of job would be perfect for me.

    Basically, I think a lot of employers are stuck in the 2011 mindset of being able to hire great talent for low salaries, and they aren’t willing to either raise the salary or lower their standards/train on the job. What are your thoughts?

    1. Trout 'Waver*

      As a mid-level manager, it’s tough. We used to get 10 qualified candidates 3-4 years ago for each posting. Now we’re lucky to get 1. The higher-ups starting to recognize that they need to pay more to get the talent they’re looking for, though.

      1. Hiring with the low unemployment rate*

        I hired last year too, and it was TOUGH. It was for entry level positions that weren’t terribly attractive but not awful either–and a very small minority of applications/interviewed candidates were considerable. I’ve never hired for higher level positions though.

    2. SophieChotek*

      From a job hunting perspective I know in the past several years I have been unable to find a new job or get interviews. There have not been tons and tons of jobs out there that I think are a good fit for me (most are too high level and I need to start lower, not as “director”). And I know many of my friends feel the same way. We all try to help each other with job searches, etc. or practice interviews, etc. If the unemployement is low and jobs cannot find qualified candidates, they must all be in fields I am not interested in/unqualified for.

      1. Jennifer*

        Yup. The jobs at my level want you to be doing four different jobs at once for 2-4 managers and then I’m never good enough. The only jobs listed are for finance people, which I don’t want to do at all. I haven’t even found one job I qualify for in 2018 to apply for–usually I apply for more than that and get 1-2 interviews a year (and then am told I’m inadequate).

    3. KatieKate*

      I’ve run into that in the nonprofit world. An assistant director position in my organization stayed unfilled for half a year because they were barely paying $50K. I know they didn’t change the salary, so I feel bad for the poor person they convinced to take it.

      1. Hiring with the low unemployment rate*

        I’m in the nonprofit world too. I totally get having a low budget, but that just might been loosening your experience requirements.

        1. KatieKate*

          The eventually lowered the title to better match the salary, but it’s a rampart problem to expect miracles and pay pennies.

        2. Lil Fidget*

          YES! So many high level nonprofit jobs with just laughable salaries. Sorry guys, I get we’re mission-driven, but you need to start looking at part time, or teleworking, or some other massive perk to get the person you want for this kind of money. Unfortunately I think nonprofits are feeling VERY tight right now in the US given likely Federal funding cuts.

          1. Hiring with the low unemployment rate*

            What frustrates me the most is nonprofits seem to always want you to have experience a) that’s exactly what they’re hiring for and b) in like, the exact same micro-field of their organization. You can’t just be a nonprofit manager for an environmental organization, you have to be a program manager for a bird conservation org. Sometimes when they do this they’re literally the only nonprofit in the region in that microfield. Drives me nuts!

    4. Sloan Kittering*

      It took me much, much longer to find a job this time – that paid me what I wanted, and was a career move – than it did five years ago. It was infuriating to read all those articles about how the economy is great and unemployment was down, when I felt like I was in my own personal recession. I still don’t know what the problem was, I got a job in the actual recession of 2008!

    5. Bea*

      Hiring has been utter hell.

      I was looking in October and was hired within 4 weeks of my search. I had fast responses and offers from both places I interviewed in that time. I needed out so I pounced. Ending up with more money and less stress and less work.

      Now we’re hiring one specialty position and one management. And wow. Only one app in the week the specialty listing hit. 100 absolutely not anywhere near the right skillset in about a month for the other opening.

      It’s around market rates and good benefits. Not thinking it’s a financial issue here. There’s just not a lot of talent looking and responding.

      It’s exhausting.

    6. The New Wanderer*

      In my case, I think a lot of employers (in tech specifically) are stuck in the start-up mindset of one person to do All The Things. IME someone who specializes in a field (as in, gets a Master’s or PhD) typically doesn’t have expert-level skills in other mostly unrelated fields because when would they have the time, and yet the job descriptions (written or heavily implied) list all those skills as minimum requirements. The salary ranges I’ve seen are actually pretty good for one primary aspect of the job, but woefully low for the person who actually has all of the skills.

      So, a lot of jobs I have applied for and not been considered are still being posted because their magical unicorn person hasn’t shown up (or that one person is working for Big Name Tech for wayyyy more money because BNT knows they are so rare and pays accordingly).

    7. Anonymosity*

      I think you nailed it in your last paragraph. Plus, the whole unicorn thing. Someone commenting on this blog a few years ago referred to that as “waiting for Jesus.”

      I’ve been seeing that a lot with the admin jobs around here. I’ve interviewed for a couple where the employer says things like, “We want someone who will stay with the company long-term.” Well honey, you are not going to get that for $8-10 an hour and barely any PTO or benefits, and no advancement or learning opportunities. And sure enough, in eighteen months of searching, I’ve seen the same exact jobs advertised more than once. In fact, I’m seeing jobs I applied for in 2012 still being posted because they can’t keep anyone in them but are clueless about how to do so.

      1. Hiring with the low unemployment rate*

        Haha, I’ve been job searching for years too (off and on) and I keep seeing the same jobs posted over and over again too.

      3. hermit crab*

        Ha, I love that. A group within my organization has definitely been waiting for Jesus and/or a unicorn. They’ve actually made two offers recently and had them both rejected, so now they are starting over. I am not in any way surprised.

      4. The Original K.*

        I mentioned a few Fridays ago that I had gone through a hiring process with a company (application & 3 interviews over about six weeks) only to find out at the end that the top of their pay range was $5K below my bottom. I’d done my homework; my range was in line with market value for the role. I was really annoyed because I’d listed my range on the application as required, so they could have screened me out (and if they’d listed the range in the ad, I wouldn’t have applied). Well, that job is still posted, so I’m guessing I’m not the only person who has had that experience with them. If they want to pay what they’re paying, the role needs to be more junior.

    8. SpaceNovice*

      I’m in tech, so I’m getting a lot more random recruiters reach out to me now. Crappy companies tend to have their positions left open for months. I’ve actually been seeing the number of PTO days going up, and I can tell because they’re not being put into listings whereas they weren’t before. Companies who try to have a checkbox listing of skills/computer languages all filled out don’t fill their positions for months while those that find people that they can train fill quickly.

      So yeah, companies that are in the old mindset are losing out, big time. You can actually see it now in retail–people are jumping ship off major department stores for literally anything else, so the only people they have are either not very good or, the majority, people who are super burned out and don’t think they’re worth a better job (or a better job isn’t available in their area). Part of the reason why Toys ‘R’ Us went out was because they treated their employees badly, among other things. They’re paying lower than other retail stores, so they lose everyone or cause everyone to burn out with anxiety over finances and inner company politics.

      Also, with data center jobs, you might be able to get some certifications to prove you are serious about the transition. Maybe same if you mean data analyst instead. People want more manpower desperately, and all you need to do is prove you have the drive to the right employer willing to help you learn on the job.

    9. irene adler*

      The “low” unemployment rate is a joke.

      IF it’s so low, why do HR folks complain about having to field hundreds of resumes for a single position?

      I’ve been looking for 3 years. I’ve had plenty of interviews but no offers. Clearly I stink at interviews. I’m a jack of all trades but they want someone younger, with more experience in fewer areas or the job posting was not real (they hired from within). Or less experience at more positions. Or I only have 19 out of 20 skills as outlined on the job description. Or, they make up a needed skill -not indicated on the job description- that is a must have. And coincidentially, one I don’t have.
      Some of the jobs are $30-40K higher in salary than my current position. But when they’ve asked me my current salary, they were no longer interested in me. Course, now that’s changed – I don’t give salary and they are not allowed to ask any more.

      I’ve had it.

    10. Chaordic One*

      It has been my observation that with the unemployment rate being down, my employer has been hiring people who probably would not have been considered for these same positions in the recent past. They seem be hiring a lot more older people, people who are overweight, LGBT people, members of racial minorities and people who are a bit unconventional in appearance (tattoos, unnaturally colored hair, unusual, but not indecent, clothing). They’ve also relaxed their position on hiring people with criminal records and are now actually hiring people who committed petty crimes in the past. (If there were more applicants without criminal records those with records would not be considered.)

      These people are all qualified to do the work and seem to perform well on the job, so that is good news. OTOH, my employer is NOT raising salaries.

    11. Database lurker*

      I am a technical worker. I get contacted on LinkedIn all the time by recruiters but every position has a laughably low salary, think 30% below my current pay. It’s very frustrating!

      1. The New Wanderer*

        Recruiters appear to be throwing contacts out to anyone in tech. I’m kind of in tech but not a programmer/developer/sysadmin of any kind, which is obvious from my LinkedIn and my resume. Yet twice in the last week I’ve gotten messages/emails from recruiters who “reviewed my resume” and want to know if I’m interested in some programming position or other. The second one was from a company where I applied to a specific position but my application was visible to all their recruiters – one “saw” my application (including all the usual details of experience and education) and sent me an email about another position and asked, among other things, what my degree is in and could I elaborate on my experience in software development. I was tempted to reply to ask what exactly on my resume did he think qualified me for that position?

    12. 653-CXK*

      A month and a half into my looking for jobs, I can say it’s a mix of being frustrating not hearing from anyone, being rejected out of hand, and quite nice not being at toxic ExJob.

      The frustration comes when you apply for a job (almost all of them I’ve applied for online, which makes it so much easier) and you hear nothing. I had three interviews so far, but nothing has come from them. There were two jobs I did apply for that were very close to my skills, but they were rejected (they hired someone else). I also look at some of the jobs I have applied for, and they tell me little other than “you’ve submitted your resume, thanks, someone will get to you if you match.”

      On the other hand, being let go from ExJob has been a blessing. In a way, management did a favor for me: they showed how petty, micromanaging, cliquish, and anxiety-inducing they were, and I don’t miss the company at all (so much so that when I applied in the health exchange instead of applying for COBRA, I picked another company that turns out to be much cheaper per month than what I paid when I was hired). There are times I get twinges of regret (“I should have done better”) but some of the people I used to work with have stated the area I used to work for is getting worse.

      Perhaps I need to change things up a little bit – I’m definitely getting far away from processing, but I’m interested in data managing or financial planning (even a temp job for a few months would be nice). I’m planning to sit with my unemployment insurance board to present my job logs, and I have been receiving emails from other employers (one of which sounded good on the surface, but after reading more into it, door-to-door sales at 100% commission is a definite pass), so sooner or later I will be employed again, perhaps at a much nicer place.

  41. Layoff Casualty*

    I was laid off from my last job, and obviously want to avoid that again in my next job. I’ve noticed mentions of layoffs when I’m reading company reviews (such as on GlassDoor) a few times, which worries me enough that I usually just don’t apply for jobs for those companies, even if the reviews are a few years old.

    I’m wondering if I’m reading too much into these reviews and getting paranoid.

    If a company is hiring, should I not really worry about being laid off? I assume if they were laying people off, they wouldn’t be hiring?

    1. ThatGirl*

      It really depends, honestly. Sometimes companies do strategic layoffs because they’re trying to reorganize; sometimes it’s just a sign of a downturn.

      My last job, my whole team got laid off because they were trying to save money by outsourcing our jobs, because their industry is struggling, and it’s just the company getting smaller.

      Here, I’ve seen a few layoffs in the year I’ve been here, but it’s all been middle management and a sign they’re trying to “fix” the structure – meanwhile they’re hiring for different positions instead.

      I would never work for a company like Sears, Motorola or Nokia (to name a few nearby) because they seem to lay dozens of people off every 3 months. They’re clearly struggling. But for otherwise stable companies, occasional layoffs aren’t necessarily a bad sign.

    2. Kathenus*

      I’ve been laid off too and know exactly the way you feel. I did include in interviews a question about whether or not they had ever had any layoffs, pre-worded and practiced in advance, referencing my recent layoff and companies seemed to completely understand why I’d ask. I didn’t do it years later for other positions, but I was in that same place with it being a fresh experience and concern that you are in. It is never a guarantee, of course, but it made me feel better to bring it up in a professional way when I was looking for my next position.

  42. Peanut and Butters*

    I’m bummed. Just got a rejection letter from a company I really wanted to work for. I know I shouldn’t take it personally but my jerk brain is like, we’ll what did you expect? Of course you didn’t get it!

    How do you get motivated after rejection? I’m having a hard time believing that I deserve another job or that I’m even qualified for anything else.

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      The only thing that works in my experience is to have a lot of irons in the fire so you’re already excited about other things. This has worked for me professionally (in a very rejection-focused field, professional writing) and personally (online dating) – submit the application and move on to other things as fast as you can.

    2. Penguin*

      TL;DR – Be kind to yourself. Recognize when you’re emotionally invested in a job and let yourself grieve if you don’t get it. Be compassionate of yourself. Do the best you can when you can; sometimes that means hammering away at cover letters, sometimes it means listening to sad songs and crying. Do whatever helps YOU get done the things you have concluded you need to do regardless of others’ opinions of them… even if those people have or have had emotional authority over you. Own your decisions; if you genuinely need to pause because “catching my breath now will let me work on X tonight” and you accept whatever might result from that, do it.

      Long version:
      Not sure if this helps, but I’ve had to work really hard at separating my feeling of self-worth from other people’s actions to reach a point where my jerkbrain (mostly) doesn’t do that. For me it’s not about finding motivation to fight that jerkbrain reaction, it’s about internalizing the idea that I am skilled/worthwhile/deserving of good things regardless of someone else’s choices (which ultimately makes the jerkbrain thoughts mostly moot).

      Or to put it another way, rather than arguing with my jerkbrain (which lends it credibility) I have internalized the idea that it’s a lying liar that lies and so I can ignore it. The “how” has been lots of therapy, people reminding me of examples of my value, and practicing a LOT of patience and compassion with myself (as in “ok, that job didn’t choose me; I’m going to let myself feel sad about it, maybe do something small that will make me feel a bit better in general even if only briefly, and then find a small bit of work that I can handle to keep working towards my goal so I don’t get trapped by the ‘you’re not being productive so you suck’ jerkthought”).

      Also, another huge component has been letting go of expectations, especially other people’s. And that has been easiest when I find that something that I was taught/conditioned to NOT do is actually a more effective/efficient approach for me. The realization that “Person X says I should do A, but B works better for me… hmm, maybe Person X is not the best person for me to base my choices and judgments on” has really helped me to trust myself…

      …and learning that trust and self confidence has led directly to my having more resilience and fewer jerkbrain moments.

      1. Lupin Lady*

        When unemployed or unhappily employed you’re self-worth completely TANKS. Just like Penguin said, be kind to yourself and realize that it’s not you, it’s your situation, and that you will get past it. And like Sloan said, more irons in the fire to keep you forward-looking. Try to set goals for the number of quality applications you send out, or refine your cover letter(s) to make it absolutely superb.

    4. Ali G*

      It’s really hard. Especially when you are really into the job. I’m sorry, I have no cure-all, but like SK said, it does help to have other applications in so you can start thinking about something else. Also if you haven’t checked for new jobs in a bit, looking for more places to apply might help.
      I got 2 rejections this week! One was only 4 days after the closing date and I got a nice note from the hiring manager that they offered the position to someone else. I was like WTH? Obviously you had an internal candidate in mind so why did I waste my time???
      The second was a form rejection from a job I applied to back in March. That one made me laugh. I had already assumed I didn’t get it :)

      1. Kat in VA*

        I had two rejections within a week of each other – the first one, I underwent HR interview, interview with my potential VP boss, and interview with two EAs. It all sounded like I was going to get the job – then I got the rejection email saying that I’d been passed over in favor of an employee referral. I’m still sore about that – just tell me you went with another candidate, not that you were hiring me so you could tick a box.

        Second one, made it through phone screen, initial HR phone interview, and three person panel interview. Thought I nailed that one too, and had to chase the recruiter around for almost ten days to get the answer that they’d gone with another candidate…who was an employee referral.

        *muffled exclamation*

        I’m trying not to get tooooo wound up about the latest development: HR phone screen, online assessment, HR phone interview, proctored online assessment, Skype interview with potential BossMan. Then HR emailed to say BossMan wanted me for marathon round of in-person with HR, him, his VPs, and the other three EAs. That was around 3:30PM, and I haven’t gotten a date/time sent to me. It’s now past 7:00PM. I emailed back within 10 minutes of receiving the notice of interview (I was out of pocket), and I can only hope that HR got distracted / it’s Friday and people have left early / monumental task of scheduling that many people was overwhelming.

        Now I’m going to spend all weekend fidgeting and biting my nails and, yes, worrying a little bit. Did I mention that I have a phone interview with the recruiter I had to chase for ten days…on Monday….for a different position at the same company? I can only hope having already gone through the preliminaries might give me some sort of edge. However, this same recruiter told me she’d call me “in the afternoon” last week (fun, waiting around all afternoon), and then didn’t. So I emailed her inviting her to set a time. Then I emailed her the next day, with the same invitation. Then I got a little rasty and sent her a nicely-worded email asking if I was out of the running, and if so, could she let me know so I could move forward. That netted me an email with nothing other than a calendar invite for the phone call. I’m hopeful, but being pragmatic about it all.

        Rejection is hard. I’ve gotten maybe 50 of them in the last eight weeks – I’ve been casting nets far and wide, and there are a *lot* of Executive Assistant positions in the greater DC/MD/VA area. Not such a big deal to get an automated one via email about my application; harder to get one after a phone interview; the worst to get when you’ve done a long, in-person interview with your potential boss(es) and feeling really good about the interview, hearing “You’ll be doing this and that” and “I think you’ll fit in great here” and other assorted pleasantries.

        I feel your feels. All you can do is keep moving onward and upward!

        1. Kat in VA*

          *not that you were *interviewing me to tick a box* not *hiring*. I would have LOVED to get that job.

    5. nep*

      I feel you. Sorry you’re having to face this. Agree with other commenters–It helps me a lot to keep finding other openings that inspire me…Just having applications out there for jobs I’m interested in gives me some positive vibes to ride while I continue my search.
      The most recent job I applied for–what they’re seeking is precisely what I’m experienced at and good at. Aaaand–nada. For a couple reasons I knew it was a long shot; but thought if I was at least short-listed I’d know what I’m presenting has some appeal to employers in this domain. So the silence (rejection) has left me with this sense of What The Hell Is The Use.
      I know I’d be really great at that job, and I’ve got to somehow convince myself that the fact that I wasn’t even shortlisted does not mean I would not be good at it. But–yes–in the wake of a rejection it’s really tough to convince oneself of that.
      One thing that helps me keep putting resumes out there is: Given my current status, my chances of landing a job I really want are minuscule. But that goes to absolute zero if I give up applying altogether.
      Keep us posted. Hang in there. Wishing you all the best.

  43. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

    What brings you joy in your work?

    I’ve been struggling with burnout for a while, and I think what I need is to figure out how to do more of what I love about my work. I’d love to hear what you love, or what brings you joy (even if it’s just that it pays for you to do the stuff you really love).

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      Goofing around with my coworkers means a lot to me. They say having a “best friend” at work makes a big difference in employee morale and job satisfaction, even though that seems silly. That’s how I got through the hard times in my past job … we are social animals basically.

      1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

        So true! I’ve had two “work besties,” both of whom have turned into lifelong important friends. My last “work best friend” left about a year ago, sadly.

    2. Amber Rose*

      I like the feeling when a customer/coworker calls me for advice because they know I know what I’m talking about.

      I love the feeling of finishing a huge project.

      I like praise, it just brightens my whole day. Even if it’s just, “thanks for doing the thing.” So I go out of my way to try and be helpful.

      I like decorating my cube with comics and silly pictures. Sometimes coworkers give me some more. I have one of those “what I think I do, what they think I do, what I actually do” memes stuck on the side of my filing cabinet.

    3. Mimmy*

      I teach keyboarding to blind and visually impaired adults – it is a VERY tedious and sometimes boring job, but what brings me joy is when a student is clearly motivated to learn how to type the “correct” way. Bonus points for when a student tells me that learning to type made a big difference.

    4. Project Mangler*

      Feeling like I’ve done a concrete thing (even a small thing) to help someone. Feeling like I’m part of a team. Putting together a well organized agenda or document (yep I’m a nerd).

    5. Midlife Tattoos*

      I love mentoring people and watching them grow, even if it means that I lose them as they pursue their career goals. In fact, one such employee told me today that he wants to take on a new role in an adjacent team (which he’d be great for) after working for me nearly 8 years. It’s bittersweet, but at the end of the day, it’s extremely rewarding.

  44. grace*

    Mistakes at work!

    I made one this week and the fallout has been awful. It’s fixable, but it still hurts to have people I really respect and admire not sure that they can trust me – so it’ll be a long few weeks until I can get this turned around.

    Have you made a big mistake at work? How did it go? Any tips on how you got past it?

    1. Trout 'Waver*

      Be honest, admit fault, and work hard to correct the mistake. That will make you more trustworthy than you were before you made the mistake. The old joke about how an engineer who had their bridge collapse is more hireable because she’s presumably learned from the experience is quite true.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Figure out what led to the mistake and how you can avoid those circumstances again.

    3. Amber Rose*

      I have. I missed submitting a hugely expensive invoice to a customer (it’s a long, boring story) that didn’t get noticed until after the PO actually expired and almost cost the company the full amount of it. We’re lucky the customer was nice about it and able to re-issue the PO, but my boss was furious at me, and all work related to invoices was taken away from me.

      For a while after, I had people telling me what to do like they couldn’t trust me to do it properly. I ended up sitting in a meeting with my managers where I explained what went wrong and why, and my boss and I finally had a real discussion about my job that really, really should have been had like two years ago. Gotta talk these things out! Even if it seems scary. The mistakes are scarier.

      I’ve also made a dozen mini-mistakes this week, which have a cumulative effect of making me feel like a huge a-hole, and that’s been a bit rough on my self esteem even though all of them were simple fixes.

    4. SpaceNovice*

      All of the above comments. Lessons learned are also important, and often if you’ve made a mistake, others have in the past. If there’s a way you can figure out to prevent the mistake in the future for everyone, that’s a bonus.

      I’m sorry you have to deal with people not believing in you. :( That’s rough. I hope it turns around quickly.

    5. Ali G*

      I don’t have more to add to what has been said, so how about I tell you a story about a mistake at work that will (hopefully) make you laugh?
      My first job out of grad school was at a newly formed non-profit, we will call it the Teapot Quality Board. We were getting ready to launch our first-ever open stakeholder consultation on Teapot Quality Standard, as part of the first ever review and enhancement process of the standard.
      We were sending an email memo to the entire stakeholder list we put together (thousands of people) to announce the opening of the consultation period.
      I drafted the memo, my boss (CEO) reviewed the memo, legal reviewed the memo, the Board reviewed the memo.
      We were a go.
      Email sent.
      ……………….Boss comes into my office with a look on his face I have never seen before.
      He informs me there is a problem with the memo we sent out.
      See if you can spot the error:
      TO: All Teapot Quality Stakeholders
      FROM: The Teapot Quality Broad
      RE: Teapot Quality Standard Consultation….
      YES, no one bothered to actually review the headers! The memo body was read like 100 times. But not the headers.
      As the only female employee at the time, I said, “well if anyone calls looking for the Teapot Quality Broad, send them my way!”
      It took a long time to live that one down (it’s a small field)!

  45. Tangerina*

    My new-ish job is primarily remote. My specific team is spread across the US.

    How the heck do people function on conference calls all the time? Everyone’s at a different volume, so I’m constantly having to adjust the location and volume of my headset to understand everyone. There’s the noise, the cutting out, the constant people talking over each other. Specifically my boss refuses to use a headset with computer, and she has a high pitched, nasal voice. Being on the phone with her for hours on end is grating.

    Tips are appreciated, but I’m also just needing to vent. I know this is just one of those corporate life things.

    1. all charitied out*

      I feel your pain. I hate conference calls. Without the visual cue, it’s really hard to judge what the other person is doing and/or thinking, so the conversation is so much more awkward. I would really prefer either e-mails or face-to-face meetings

    2. Thlayli*

      There’s a method of chairing conference calls where there’s one chair, and they manage the call, and they ask every single person for their input in turn on each topic. It only works if everyone agrees in advance to wait their turn to be called, and if the chair consistently remembers to ask everyone their opinion, and gives people a chance to respond when relevant. You could look this up and send it round and ask if people want to try it. You could offer to chair as a trial but warning it’s harder than it sounds to do it right.

      Also, people should mute when they are not actually speaking.

    3. JessicaTate*

      It really depends on how they are managed. The best functioning remote team I worked on used videoconferencing (Zoom) religiously, and most everyone had good etiquette – headsets if needed, muting, being on video. The organizer could mute someone who was causing an issue without realizing it. The video helped get rid of some of the “talking over each other” issues — and made people more accountable to not “multi-task.” There were still annoyances, but it was effective. But I think it had a lot to do with the company/team instilling a culture of “this is what makes dispersed teams effective.” Buy-in was essential.

      The worst functioning dispersed team I worked on involved the person in charge sometimes vanishing from the call without notice, and the notorious call when we suddenly heard someone flush. Without buy-in throughout the team / at the top, it stayed fairly dysfunctional. (Hang in there.)

    4. Midlife Tattoos*

      Nearly every call I’m on involves people all across the world. As Thlayli pointed out, it’s the chairperson’s role to make sure everyone gets heard and background noise is minimized.

      So for example, I chair a daily meeting with our offshore contingent. With the time difference, some are driving in their cars, some are walking down a very loud street, or some are at home with kids hollering in the background. When I first set this meeting up, I put down some ground rules: mute yourself if you’re in a loud space (or better yet, find a quiet place), everyone takes their turn, etc. And since I can see a visual representation of whose phone line is making noise, I will ask that person specifically to go on mute. If it’s a dreaded “Darth Vader” breathing heavily into the phone, I’ll send them a personal IM asking them to move their microphone.

      If you’re not the meeting host, you could certainly talk to the host and get her onboard with laying out some ground rules.

  46. Ruth (UK)*

    So I’m applying for an internal vacancy at work (it would be a temporary role which I’d get as a secondment if I got it) and basically, I’m bricking it. I don’t know why I feel so anxious over this but I’ve never applied to / interviewed with people I already know before so I’ve previously always dealt with application or interview nerves / embarrassment with “oh well, if I balls it up, at least I’ll never have to see them again”.

    I think on one hand, I have an advantage as it’d be internal in my department but on the other hand, other candidates applying probably have more experience than me.

    I wouldn’t mind practically if I didn’t get it but I guess I feel embarrassed about the potential not of not getting the role exactly, but of doing a really bollocks job in the application/interview or something.

    My boss has checked my application / personal statement / etc and thinks it’s good (she actually said “this is great”) so I think I’ll at least get an interview.

    Anyway, I guess I don’t need practical advice exactly, I’m mostly dealing with nerves/embarrassment. One friend of mine did point out I can’t let embarrassment get in the way of potential career progression.

  47. First time mother*

    I just found out last week that I’m pregnant (5 weeks today eek!) and am absolutely exhausted at work. Like wide mouth yawning exhausted at 10am! I want to tell my boss and team but hesistant with it being so early but I’m already slightly off my game so worried if it might come across as if I’m just slacking. All the internet advice is to take a nap in the office but given mine is open plan, that’s impossible. Luckily no nausea yet but getting worried about how to handle that since I’d have to run across the office in full view of everyone to get to the shared bathroom and throw up. I have no idea how its feasible to hide for three months. How did y’all deal with nausea/fatigue in open plan offices and navigate if/when to tell boss/colleagues?

    1. Emi.*

      Congratulations!!!!! Can you get more sleep at night? I basically went to bed at 8 for the first trimester. You may not have any nausea at all, but it’s a symptom of low blood sugar so you might want to start incorporating small meals/snacks into your day if you’re worried (or if you want to phase them in slowly).

      What’s your reasoning for waiting three months? If it’s to get through the higher-risk phase, that’s 12 weeks, of which you’ve already gotten through 5. Does that make it seem more reasonable?

      1. First time mother*

        I’ve been going to bed at 9pm which is insane for me haha but has definitely helped. Last night was a friend’s leaving drinks and first time since I found out that I went to bed post-9pm so really feeling it today.

        That absolutely makes it seem more reasonable, thank you! For some reason, i just had the three months stuck in my head but you’re right, I really only have another 7 weeks or so to go.

        @detectiveamysantiago – I didn’t know about peppermint helping as an energy boost, thank you :)

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Peppermint is supposed to be good for both combating nausea and boosting your energy so maybe suck on some Altoids or chew gum or dab essential oils on your wrist?

      Congrats and take care!

        1. Smol Cinnamon Roll*

          I find that ginger helps with my upset stomach due to stress/nerves. However, lately, I have not had any candied ginger and must make do with ginger ale and its bubbly glory.

    3. BetsCounts*

      congratulations! I took naps in my car over lunch for fatigue. As far as nausea, I might use Allison’s vague “I’m dealing with an ongoing health issue” but if your office is a bunch of gossips that might just lead to speculation…

    4. President Porpoise*

      I’m in the same boat, only with nausea as well. I luckily work from home, but I’m still so tired and incredibly unmotivated. For the days where I am in the office, I try to snack or chew gum. Cinnamon gum helps keep me awake really well.

      Congrats on the pregnancy!

    5. Thlayli*

      Congratulations! Just take a nap when you get home sounds like that’s all you can do nap-wise.

      The fatigue is usually because you are growing a placenta and creating new blood. You need to produce an additional 4 pints of blood to fill the placenta in the first trimester. In 7 weeks time the placenta will be fully formed and the fatigue will lessen. In the meantime it’s basically like you are donating blood every 2 weeks.

      If you aren’t already, start taking iron supplements and other pregnancy vitamins. Also drink lots of fluids and eat lots of protein and iron rich foods. Basically anything that goes into blood is what you need.

    6. Ann Perkins*

      Congratulations! For fatigue, sipping cold water and making sure to get up and walk around frequently definitely help. For nausea, eat frequently and try to eat some protein even if crackers are all that sounds good. A cheese stick or slim jim can help keep you full longer. Sour candies are good to eat for nausea too. The unisom/B6 combo helps a lot of people as well.

      I think when to tell depends largely on your work situation. If the worst happens, would you be ok with people knowing? If not, wait. My first pregnancy I told coworkers around 7 weeks because some of them were genuinely my good friends and we all had a work trip together, so me sneaking back to the hotel midafternoon between sessions didn’t seem like me being antisocial. That’s definitely earlier than usual though – most people wait until they’ve had their first ultrasound and things are progressing well.

    7. Double A*

      Early pregnancy sucks because you feel super terrible but you’re not “supposed” to tell people why! That said… 5 weeks is super, super early, and I know for my own sanity I always reminded myself that pregnancy doesn’t always stick and that if this pregnancy doesn’t work it’s because there was something wrong with it. Basically, I tried not to get too attached to the idea of being pregnancy for awhile. The miscarriage risk, and not wanting other people to know you’re dealing with that, is the big reason a lot of people don’t tell until week 12 or so.

      Still, each week that passes (and, I hear, the more you feel terrible), the more likely it is to stick, so for me I started telling some people around 8 weeks, and pretty much everyone by week 10, because I did need some extra support at work and I needed people to know why. I think I waited until my second ultrasound to really tell everyone. I figured, at that point, if I miscarried, it would also affect me at work and I would also need extra support then, and I personally would be okay with people knowing that was what I was dealing with.

      But at this point in your pregnancy I recommend just sleeping as much as your body wants to! It’s amazing how much the first trimester saps your energy. I’m 26 weeks and feeling pretty good, but still sometimes have to sleep a whole bunch!

    8. DaniCalifornia*

      Congrats!

      I honestly feel like since you’ve got around 7 weeks (if you don’t want to tell people until 3-4 months along) that even if you had to make a run for it you could blame it on allergies or just generally “not feeling well, thanks for your concern.” I think it’s one of those things that once you tell your boss and coworkers about the pregnancy they’ll put two and two together and no one will fuss. If they had been thinking you were slacking then that reason will turn their logic right around!

    9. LilySparrow*

      You may not wind up getting nausea at all. Not everyone does, and not to the same degree. Most people don’t have random, sudden throwing up at all hours of the day. It’s more likely to be during certain periods, like morning or evening, and more likely to have identifiable triggers that you may be able to avoid.

      My midwife told me that one trigger for nausea is blood-sugar fluctuations, and having some good-quality lean meat every day helps stabilize it.

      Obviously not everyone can do that, but I followed her advice and had no big issues with morning sickness.

      I had massive fatigue but no nausea with my first, and some nauseous feelings but never threw up with my second.

      If you do wind up with “morning” sickness, could you temporarily switch seats to be closer to the bathroom? The line about “dealing with a health issue,” should cover it.

  48. Raise q*

    Is it wrong to ask for a raise, when I might be leaving the company for a new job in 3-4 months anyway?
    I am set on searching for a new job (work life balance now is not good, location is bad, pay is acceptable but would like higher to compensate for all the extra hours). I have a mid year review coming up, is it wrong to ask for a raise knowing I’ll hopefully be gone soon?

    1. Emily S.*

      Has it been a while since your last raise? I think that matters here.

      If it’s been a year or more, I think you should absolutely ask for a raise. After all, you have nothing to lose in doing so.

      1. Raise q*

        Well I Did receive a year end raise that all employees receive.
        I was debating requesting a higher raise at that time, but decided not to as I had only been in the role for 1 year

          1. Jerry Vandesic*

            Do it. Consider it practice for a skill that is important to do well. Even if you don’t get the raise, it’s good experience that you can draw on later in your career.

    2. whistle*

      No. You might be leaving; you might not. If the time is right to ask for a raise for other reasons, I don’t see any reason for this aspect to hold you up. Good luck!

  49. In a Pickle*

    I’m in kind of a weird situation and could use some advice. I work for a small company and have recently acquired ownership over our intern program, and we are currently searching for new interns to start either this summer or fall. In the past, our interns have exclusively been students (mostly college but we’ve had a few high school and graduate students). We received an application from a woman who graduated about twenty years ago and is looking for a career change. She seemed very excited about our company, and I reached out to her earlier this week and conducted a phone interview. She was very articulate, enthusiastic and had some interesting professional experience.

    When our phone call was coming to an end, I told the applicant the next step would be to invite her to the office to meet a few of our staff. I had a couple of different departments in mind where I thought this person could potentially be a good fit. I went to the director of one of the departments to talk about the phone call, and while in her office we decided to do a deeper Google search of this applicant. Imagine our surprise (and horror) when we realized the top images matching this applicant’s name were mugshots. Her name is not very common, and after doing some more digging we realized this applicant has been arrested multiple times, twice for pretty serious offenses (think aggravated assault and bodily injury with a deadly weapon). The most recent offense was less than two years ago. Given these circumstances, we do not feel comfortable bringing her into the office or considering her for an intern position.

    I told this applicant I would follow-up with her by the end of the week, and now I am trying to determine the best way to close the door. I’m not a fan of “ghosting” applicants and feel I do need to reach out to her, especially because I told her I would. While we always perform background checks before any employee officially joins our team, it doesn’t happen until they receive an offer, and our legal director does not think I should bring up her criminal history or let her know what we found…

    I can think of two ways to proceed. 1) Per my boss, I can tell her we’ve received a lot of interested applicants and will reach back out to all the finalists in August (which isn’t exactly true). 2) We’ve gone through some organizational changes lately and just learned a couple of days ago there are more to come. A number of staff roles are set to restructure (including my own). I alluded to some recent organizational changes during our phone call, and I’m wondering if I can tell her due to the nature of some of these more recent changes we need to use this summer to transition and bring in interns after a couple of months. This is true, but may be oversharing.

    I have learned my lesson and will be sure to THOROUGHLY Google any intern applicant before I call them. However, I could use some help navigating this current situation. What do I do?

    1. Bea*

      Googling is tricky though. It’s not recommended by most in an HR role due to possible biases that are able to happen instead of these kind of horrifying situations you ran into.

      This also may be an issue if you’re in a state with Ban The Box legislator in place. You can’t prescreen for criminal history here.

        1. Not So Recently Diagnosed*

          If you’re not in Ban-the-Box territory then this probably won’t effect you either, but it’s always good practice to ensure you aren’t in a state where you have to provide some sort of adverse action letter and disclose to the applicant that you are rejecting them based off of information found in public records.

    2. BetsCounts*

      If you’re sure you don’t want to give her a whirl (it is just an internship after all; however you know best if you’re not comfortable with bringing her in) I think using your boss’s idea is fine. If she’s not in school and doing an industry change it’s not as if she is going to know any of the people you ultimately bring on.

    3. katkat*

      You don’t have to explain. You can say something similar to your #1), but without the part about contacting finalists. If you know there is no chance of moving her forward, don’t leave that door open.
      “We’ve received a lot of qualified applicants and have decided not to move forward with your application. Thank you for your time and interest in our company.”

      2. BRR*

        I think this is the best option. You don’t have to lie, keep it simple. I do think you need to make it clear you’re rejecting her, don’t give her false hope. I think it’s also good manners to throw in an apology about misleading her.

      3. In a Pickle*

        Thank you, I responded in this manner. I’m a little concerned I may hear back from her because she has been pretty persistent (she has called a couple of times and emailed once over the course of our interaction), but I’ll cross that bridge if/when we come to it.

    4. SpaceNovice*

      People can change drastically in less than two years if they put their minds to self-improvement, but it’s rare to improve so quickly from being THAT bad. I can see why you’re really hesitant to go forward with this candidate. There is a third option of learning a few signs of people who have actually reformed themselves and then asking her about how she’s changed herself for the better to see if she’s telling the truth. (This might not be the exact way to address it, and there is likely better advice on how to figure out what to ask her if you go that route.)

      But not going forward with her at all is also legitimate and the safer option for the company.

  50. Bea*

    I’m so frustrated having positions that are hard too fill. This is a giant city and I’m getting resumes from an hour away only to then they realize that’s a crappy commute. We’re transparent and you can Google the darn place to see where the job is located. I’ve wasted so many hours interviewing people who are marginal at best and then they are like “yeeeeah and idk how I would handle the daily commute.”

    Fire coming out of my nostrils. TGIF

    1. drizzly mcgee*

      Please don’t be the one to reject people because of the commute. It’s their responsibility to figure out if they can handle it, and while anonymous internet comments may not be verifiable, I personally have been working at a place that requires me to commute 90+ min each way for nearly 3 years. The only thing likely to change soon is my own location, NOT my job. Please let jobseekers decide for themselves! Thank you!

      1. Bostonian*

        Sounds like that’s not going on at all, and the candidates are self-selecting out too late in the process because they didn’t do their due diligence beforehand.

    2. Ciara Amberlie*

      Unfortunately this is an inevitable part of hiring. You can’t expect applicants to apply only for the jobs that they think are 100% perfect for them in every way, otherwise they’d hardly ever be able to apply for anything! Many people don’t have that luxury.

      Also, it’s been said many times on AAM, but hiring is a two-way street. They may not have been enthused about the commute, but willing to do it if the job gave them 100% of every everything else that they want. But at the interview they’re finding that it’s actually only 70%, and the commute is not longer worth it. That’s totally normal and totally OK. Although they could certainly phrase it better in the interview than “yeeeeah and idk how I would handle the daily commute.”

      1. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

        I think you’re exactly right, and I wonder if they’re using the commute as a justification for bowing out of the process so they don’t have to say the “pay is too low” or “the boss seems like a micromanager” or “the office smells like mold and microwaved fish” or “the building seems like it’s in an unsafe area”, or any number of small things that add up to This is Not the Job For Me.

    3. The New Wanderer*

      Oh, commuting is a tough one. I always look up where the office is located and make my decision to apply somewhat based on that. At one company that I applied to anyway, commute was the first thing the recruiter brought up after confirming where I live/where they’re located, so it’s common for them to hear that since traffic in this area is notoriously bad (top 5 worst commutes in the US bad). I declined to go further after she clarified that there is no regular WFH option and the company culture is one of work together/play together (aka long hours in the office).

      Then again, I would totally consider a job for one particular company where the commute would be ~60 min each way in stop and go traffic because I believe the work would be fulfilling enough to compensate. So you never know if it’ll be a deal breaker to any one candidate.

    4. Jules the Third*

      And maybe this would be an opportunity to look at remote work 1 – 3 days/week or modified schedules (four 9 or 10 hr days instead of five 8 hrs) as a counter offer?

    5. Delta Delta*

      Can you do a pre-interview by phone? You could raise a few issues – salary range, benefits, commute – and use that as a quick moment to inform candidates so they can decide if they want to go forward with the process. It would potentially add an extra step it could cut down on hires that don’t work out.

    6. WillowSnap*

      It’s frustrating. All you can really do is to be very open about the location, and when call screening applicants give them the address and ask if this is a reasonable commute for them.

  51. LDN Layabout*

    Shout out to good HR professionals! After the recruitment process itself felt loooooooooong, dealing with the other side of HR at my new place has been a breeze.

    Monday

    – Conditional offer + details of where to get pre-employment documents.

    Tuesday

    – Sent in HR reference check details.
    – New HR contacts current HR.
    – Current HR confirm whether I’m happy for data to be shared.

    Wednesday

    – New HR say the reference check was fine, conditional offer is now official.
    – I send the rest of the documents.
    – HR generates all the paper documents and tell me to expect them in the mail on Monday.

    I hope everyone’s HR interactions this coming week are just as easy.

  52. Hi boss, this isn't me!*

    Here’s a question for the AAM hive: I work for a mostly-fantastic small business, but I’m concerned about our hiring practices. They only hire personal referrals and never advertise open positions beyond posting them on the website (and often don’t even do that). There’s no real HR, and they don’t want to go through the hassle of digging through tons of applications, which I understand (most of the jobs are remote, and so could feasibly draw applications from anywhere in the US), but the result is that our organization is overwhelmingly white females in their 30s. Many are personal friends or relatives of other employees. While there haven’t been any major issues from the lack of diversity, this can’t be healthy to the organization overall, can it? Is there a way to bring this up with my employers without seeming like a hypocrite, knowing that I also got my position because I knew one of the owners?

    1. Reba*

      Hypocritical doesn’t really enter into it. Maybe open a conversation with the bosses like “As the company grows, is there any planning for making the hiring process more standardized and taking steps to try to broaden the applicant pool? I’ve read about how having diverse staff helps businesses so I’ve been wondering about this.”

      Maybe there’s a chance that the owners genuinely haven’t thought about things in that light and would be open to it. It’s also possible that they see their current system as “ain’t broke, don’t fix it.”

    2. slipjack*

      I’ve had this conversation a few times with employers, and have found that focusing on how to widen the pipeline is usually something people are pretty into (although I’ve always worked for progressive orgs so your mileage may vary). I’ve also had good luck steering away from “we need to hire people who look different from us” and toward “being a PoC in the US means you have skills and knowledge that white people don’t”. FWIW, I’m also a young, white woman.

      For the record, I don’t think it’s hypocritical to try use your privilege for good! You were dealt a good hand, now you can use that power to improve the world, one small business at a time :-).

    3. LCL*

      This is a for profit business? Then present hiring outside the group as a business argument. A new kind of employee will bring a different perspective and have some ideas on how to market to people that are part of their group that the business probably isn’t reaching effectively. If you can sell this as a business opportunity you won’t be seen as a hypocrite, you will be seen as a person with a talent for helping the company make money.

    4. SpaceNovice*

      You can also use a good third party recruiting firm to screen candidates for you. Places use them for direct hiring sometimes. That’ll cut down on the swimming through resumes. It isn’t abnormal to only do word of mouth, but it definitely causes the situation you’re describing now.

  53. Quaggaquagga*

    Any tips for dealing with consistent lack of attention to detail on a remote team? We’ve made checklists, we’ve asked them to preview their files, we provide detailed instructions in plain English. We’ve told them to slow down and take their time. It’s now expected that each time we receive something, we’ll have to go back with some minor revision request. It’s silly and minor things too, like forgetting to copy a block of text. But why do these minor errors keep happening over and over?

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      Man, I would try to quantify that in a tracking system, be transparent about the fact that you’re doing that, and fire the lowest performers. But I might be mean?

    2. Bea*

      Your next step is a PIP, you’ve tried to coach and have let them know their errors are a problem. Seriously, they sound like they’re not going to get better.

    3. Quaggaquagga*

      I figured some people would suggest firing or PIP…. I have no authority to do this with the team. In fact, the team itself is fairly redundant but we keep them because they’re cheap. :/ Keeping track of errors is an idea… any suggestions about how to present or implement this?

      1. BRR*

        Is it worth keeping them if all of their work has errors?

        I have some colleagues who constantly make errors and I track them in a spreadsheet. This is mostly so my manager knows how many errors they’re making and the nature of the errors.

    4. BRR*

      First make sure they know it’s an issue. Then ask them what’s going on? Then if it continues they need to be put on a PIP.

    5. SpaceNovice*

      You should go over the documentation needs in training in a open way; AKA, a way they can ask questions without feeling stupid. All of the things you’re talking about are passive, and it’s harder to learn that way. Encourage them to ask questions if they’re not sure. It sounds like you might be setting them up to be afraid of failure and thus aren’t reaching out. Instead of working together to figure it out, it kinda sounds like you’re treating them like children. None of which you mean to do, of course, and it’s an extremely common mistake! But I’ve found that not making resolving mistakes an interactive process of teamwork causes the mistakes to never be corrected, with people putting their heads into the sand about what’s going on. People don’t want to feel like idiots, so they avoid instead.

      Seriously, I went from 0% compliance to 100% compliance on a configuration management process simply because I WORKED with people. And many of those people were remote with only screen-sharing and phone conversations as an option. People went from avoiding the process to proactively coming to me when they ran into issues and asked how to address them or providing feedback. They’d also send people who didn’t know what to do to me instead so that they could get a quick, one on one training session. I was absolutely floored when an entire group who said the process could never serve their needs actually CAME TO ME because they wanted to be a part of it.

      Checklists and detailed instructions are good, though. Keep those up. But there’s nothing like sitting down and working through what needs to be done step-by-step in a friendly way that allows for questions and respects them as professionals. I could explain our entire configuration management process and demystify our document repository in 15 minutes when many, many pages of documentation just seemed like noise. People on the other side of the process made a number of incredibly suggestions that made the process so much better, and everyone could put their awesome on their yearly reviews. (I actually made a query in our tracking system to make this easy on absolutely everyone to do, ha.)

      You’ll find things are missing in your checklists/instructions or that you’ll need to reword things as you go when you get feedback. You might also find out you need to make major changes to reduce headaches. Also, you will find being positive will have a good influence on them doing better.

  54. Mimmy*

    **Networking at large conferences and keeping the momentum going**

    I attended a large symposium this week in Pittsburgh (I’ve written about it in the Free-For-All threads – will describe non-career-related aspects there). A friend who encouraged me to attend referred to it as a “networking goldmine”, which sold me because the symposium was centered around something I’m very, very interested in – it was a DREAM for me to attend this event.

    Well … maybe this was too big a leap for me. Believe me, I learned a LOT and did meet quite a few people. But, because the conference was so large, it ended up being somewhat difficult to make any meaningful connections. Plus, due to some snafus with lodging, I was very limited on time – I often had just enough time to get from workshop to workshop and to eat.

    Plus, I’m just not adept at networking to begin with; in hindsight, while I definitely enjoyed the conference and the people I did meet, maybe I should’ve started with something small. But this is a niche field, and I just could not figure out how to find my way in, and Pittsburgh is the closest this conference has been to my home state I jumped at the chance (the flight is a bit over an hour, if that). The hosting agency also puts on much smaller conferences, but they have been too far away.

    I really, really do not want this all to go to waste. There is much I still want to learn and connections I do want to make. I just don’t know where to even begin!

    1. Ambpersand*

      Kudos to you for jumping straight in! The thought of going to a large conferencing and networking with people I don’t know is so intimidating- but then again I’m a huge introvert/wallflower and the thought is downright terrifying. As for what to do next, can you reach out to the contacts you did meet and tell them that you enjoyed meeting them/the conversations and that you’d like to keep in touch? That would at least pave the way if you want to reach out to them in the future for advice or potential opportunities. And who knows, maybe they’ll have more information for you that you can build on!

      1. Mimmy*

        That’s the thing – I’m usually also an introvert and a bit of a wallflower! Good suggestion. I did get some business cards, so I’ll try to maybe follow up with them.

    2. Sloan Kittering*

      As someone who organizes and attends a LOT of conferences, one of the tips is … most people don’t attend all the panels. They hang out in the hallway talking. Especially the more senior people. If you’re “in class” the whole time, you won’t get many opportunities to network. Also, I’ve always found it easier not to think of “networking” as just … trying to meet people and convince them I’m great. How does anyone ever do that? I try to think of a specific project I want help on, or something – so that I have something real to talk about.

      1. Mimmy*

        Yeah that was my mistake – I wanted to both learn in all the classes AND network. Whenever I stepped out of a class to use the restroom or even at the end of each class, there were always people in the hall talking.

      2. Project Mangler*

        This. Having a specific topic to discuss is the only thing that allows introvert me to function at a large conference. Also, if you can arrange better housing next time that’s definitely a plus– I have to allow myself to recharge my batteries now and then.

        If the conference organizes meal tables by topic or has breakout groups (everyone who wants to talk about Specific Application or Web Accessibility or whatever go here!) even better for networking.

        1. Project Mangler*

          Also, if your field tends to use Twitter as a conference backchannel, that can be really helpful for meeting people with similar interests. “Oh, you’re also interested in Teapot Miniaturization? Let’s coffee after this panel and talk about it?”

        2. Mimmy*

          Also, if you can arrange better housing next time that’s definitely a plus– I have to allow myself to recharge my batteries now and then.

          Good heavens, yes!! To save money, a classmate who happened to be a conference presenter offered to let me stay in her hotel room, so I spent a lot of time with her in the evenings. She’s a real sweetheart and very outgoing, but I definitely could’ve used the “recharge my batteries” time. One night I did insist on it and she was fine with that.

          The conference did not have topic-specific meal tables – that would’ve been really cool. They did have “networking” meals, so that would’ve been helpful, though given that they had 900 attendees, that may’ve been tough to implement *makes mental note to make that suggestion if the opportunity arises*

      3. WillowSnap*

        This is true, but I suppose for a first conference you can say it was fine to be more in learning mode and actually just be present and attend the seminars. There is nothing wrong with doing that! And you learned that maybe the smaller ones would be better for the actual networking part.
        Some of these things are huge! When my work goes, we go as a team with a divide and conquer mentality.

    3. NDQ*

      In addition to following up with the people you met, find contact information on presenters or instructors you enjoyed and reach out to them. They may be better connected and can introduce you to others who share your specific interest area. You could also get in touch with the organizers and offer to volunteer at the next event you attend. They may appreciate the help and that would get you more involved behind the scenes with people you want to meet.
      Sounds like a great first experience!

      NDQ

    4. Sybil Fawlty*

      I collect all the business cards and marketing material I can get my hands on, and the next week I send emails to everyone. I try to mention a connection we made at the event, but if not, I take my best guess on what I might have to offer them.

      Maybe half will email back, but that’s ok. I don’t remember everyone I spoke with, and I assume they don’t either.
      I think the meaningful connections come after the event, when you get to work on whatever it is that your field entails.

      Good luck to you!

  55. Amber Rose*

    We moved! My new commute is 10 minutes (down from nearly an hour) and is the most amazing thing, I can’t even. My new cubicle is nice and private, and my back is to a wall instead of the main hallway because I’m in a room, not… a hallway. I sit with the other office folk so I’m not so isolated anymore either. We play paper ball four square. It’s nice. I like it! There are downsides (like the bathrooms being closed because of plumbing problems) but we’ll get there.

    Funny story: There was this weird cabinet looking, clamshell-ish thing on the wall that was labelled eyewash station, and I had no idea how it even worked. So a coworker and I went to investigate. She hauled on it until it popped open downwards, revealing a little sink and nozzle. Once it was all the way down, a little fountain started up. We were like, “oooh, pretty” and didn’t even notice the water leaking down the wall at first. When we did, she closed it and all the water collected in the sink cascaded out and soaked everything. There was a lake on the floor.

    And that was when I noticed the hose attachment, and the sign that said there was supposed to be a bucket underneath. Whoops!

    1. CAA*

      LOL! Sounds like your space used to be some kind of lab or manufacturing site where they handled chemicals or caustic liquids?

      1. Amber Rose*

        The people who used to be here did work very similar to what we do, which is why management liked it so much. We don’t use the eyewash much, but every so often someone will be drilling and get some dust or something in their eye, so I try to keep a few bottles lying around. I’ve never seen anything that fancy though.

        1. Hamburke*

          I liked eyewash bottles vs station better when I worked in a lab but there’s a lot to be said about a piece of equipment that can’t be moved!

    3. ThursdaysGeek*

      And in an emergency, especially with your eyes, who is going to take the time to read the instructions, hook up the hose, and get a bucket?

      I worked at a lab decades ago, and the eye wash station looked like a drinking fountain with two nozzles. But it wasn’t better than yours because the water coming out of it was rusty unless you ran it for a few minutes. The building is still being used as a lab, so I suspect it’s worse now.

      Congrats on the new office and commute. That sounds pretty great.

      1. Amber Rose*

        Yeah, we talked about it after and decided to trash it and put up a bottle holder instead. People understand how to grab a bottle of saline and flush their eyes. I’m not sure if people would’ve wanted to use that weird sink thing. And we weren’t even sure if we could get like, maintenance going on it. Also who wants a bucket just sitting in the hallway, ready to trip people?

        Interesting and shiny doesn’t always equate to useful. =P

    4. Emilitron*

      That style of eyewash station is usually used in chemical labs, when there’s a serious risk, eg MSDS that says if this acid gets in your eye flush continuously with water for 20 minutes or until help arrives – and in those cases we were always told to save our vision and let somebody else worry about the floors flooding. But they did warn us the floors would flood, because they were required to have an eyewash and a safety shower on every hall whether there were drains or not. Never had anyone actually use one, either on necessity or accidental/curious activation.

      1. Amber Rose*

        Ah, I see. We don’t really use chemicals at all, aside from a little bit of electronics cleaner and what is essentially vinegar. We mostly only need eyewash for when someone is using power tools and gets dust in their eye.

      2. Hamburke*

        I’ve had to use a safety shower! 2nd week on the job, I broke a 2000ml rbf (round bottom flask) containing dirty methylene chloride in a hood. It spilled pretty much from my waist to my toes. Since I was new, I had the lab coat lottery – of my 3 labcoats, (all marked the same size) one fit, one made me look like I was playing dress up and one wouldn’t button at my hips. The last one was the one I was wearing as the other 2 were dirty (one was dirty when I got there, this one had just come back that morning). I ended up flooding the whole wing. My jeans and socks disentegrated when washed and all the stitching in my leather boots dissolved. The only thing that survived the spill was my 100% wool Christmas sweater as we had the company Christmas party in the afternoon.

  56. Academics and adjuncts!*

    Who do you ask for a letter of rec when you are 5 years out from your last teaching job? I can ask my department heads (2), but I need a third. Is a colleague who didn’t really “supervise” me but had an administrative role a good choice?

    1. CAA*

      Sure. As long as you have some past supervisors you can fill out your list with people who were more peripheral but can still speak about the quality of your work.

  57. Anxiety Spouse*

    My husband is trying to job hunt, but his anxiety is crippling him from getting much done. Any advice or tips for how I can help and support him? I would just do it for him but his work is too technical for me to do that, and I don’t want to undermine him, either.

    1. hermit crab*

      I don’t have much advice, but I’ve absolutely been there. My husband was unemployed for about a year between leaving academia (where he had been his entire life/career so far) and finding something new. I found it really tough to balance trying to be supportive while also trying to encourage him to, you know, actually do stuff. In particular, it was hard to keep myself from recommending things that I knew would work for *me* but not for him — e.g., I’m more of a frenetic-anxious type who spirals into waves of doingstuffdoingstuffdoingstuff so having checklists and deadlines and calendars helps me a lot, but his response to stress is different and those approaches just make him feel worse. We ended up having some really interesting meta-conversations about what motivates each of us and how our individual coping tactics work/don’t work in different situations, though I’m not sure if that actually helped him in his job hunt.

    2. Not So Recently Diagnosed*

      One thing I did with my husband was simply sit with him while he filled out applications. I would hold his free hand or place my hand on his leg so he could give it a squeeze when he started to get overwhelmed. If he wanted to talk through an answer, I’d do that with him, and just in general keep the atmosphere as calm as I could while being a kind of warm blanket for him. It seemed to help. If your hubby prefers solitude when he’s feeling anxious, this won’t help so much, but it did wonders for us.

    3. Jules the Third*

      It’s so different for every person – you have to ask him. I’d start with a short list of things you could do for him, ask if he wants any of it, and if he can think of anything else. Possibilities:
      – Sitting with when he fills out apps, as Not So Recently Diagnosed suggested
      – Finding the jobs postings website and bookmarking it for companies hubs wants to work for
      – Helping with the resume by writing down accomplishments he tells you about
      – Coming up with a template cover letter that he can modify (ie, I’m good at a, b, c which tie to your job requirements of x, y, z

    4. SpaceNovice*

      You can actually help him, even if you’re not technical! You can help with practice interviews.

      I had a lot of anxiety approaching my last technical job search, but probably not as much as your husband. I just started slowly tackling things that I wasn’t confident about. I now have a huge amount of index cards that I use as flash cards for various questions I’m likely to encounter. It’s really overwhelming to look at the entire prep you gotta do, so break it down into little steps so that one or two can be done a night. I did a lot of “I’ll cover three technical questions tonight” and “I’ll brainstorm a cover letter” and “I’ll update ONE section of my resume”. You can find questions online about what local companies ask–in particular, on the Interviews section of Glassdoor and make flashcards of those to practice with. Different questions are more likely in different parts of the world/country. Learn about technical questions and behavioral questions.

      He can also start looking at job sites to see what positions look like to get an idea. Don’t need to apply immediately. Just start looking, but he shouldn’t wait until he’s 100% confident. When he’s ready with his resume, he can put it up on sites like LinkedIn, Indeed, and Dice. I actually was hired by someone I never even applied to! Same last time I job searched.

      Basically, slowly reduce the unknowns into knowns, one step at a time. This is how I got my new technical job. Just move steadily. You can let him know in passing that this is advice from someone who does technical work, too. :)

      1. SpaceNovice*

        Also, you can help him with researching what to do for things, but mostly it should be him driving. Be a good ear and have him explain things. Sometimes just walking a third party through something can help someone figure out what to do next. Also, since he’s your husband, you can potentially help him figure out what’s causing the most anxiety by asking and helping him tackle it.

    5. Drama Llama*

      Everyone responds differently but here’s what I did. I stopped supporting him and pushed him to therapy.

      After many years of hand holding and cheerleading, I realised I was not actually helping his anxiety as it got progressively worse. The saying “you can’t help people unless they help themselves” is absolutely true.

      1. Emilitron*

        Yes, it can be such a tightrope between reassuring the anxious man that I still love him even when he is unemployed, vs encouraging him to actually accomplish something. So I outsourced, and sent him to a therapist.

      2. Anxiety Spouse*

        He’s in therapy! And on meds. His general anxiety has improved – now it just centers on his job hunt. He’s a high-performer but his boss is bananas and he needs to get out of there.

        Thank you for all of the helpful suggestions! I’m an optimist so it’s hard for me to get in his head to help him the right way.

    6. Cedrus Libani*

      Seconding therapy. I took a year off after grad school because I couldn’t face the job hunt. I was processing complicated feelings about how badly things had gone, and I didn’t feel comfortable being honest about this with my partner (who was worried, both about me and the rent). Should’ve pulled my socks up and gotten help.

  58. Moth*

    I have a question that relates to one of the questions that I think came up earlier this week (or that I found while just jumping around a bit on old questions – can’t quite remember now!), regarding whether to document bad behavior by a coworker. Paraphrasing, the official answer was no, unless the behavior is illegal or could violate health and safety standards. I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts about how to deal with bullying and toxic coworkers who aren’t necessarily doing anything illegal, but are wearing down the rest of the team. We’re thinking of going as a group to head boss of the department, but knowing head boss, they will want examples of specific behaviors. A lot of what toxic employee does though is subtle and doesn’t sound like a big deal on its own (unless you’ve been suffering through the whole pattern). Is it worth documenting if you know that who you’re bringing this to will want specifics (even though this can then come off as you “looking” for trouble by documenting things that seem small on their own) or is it better to not have specifics and go with feelings? And in that case, does anyone have suggestions for how to present those feelings in a way that makes them recognized as legit? If it’s not clear, I worry that we’ll have essentially one shot at dealing with this, since head boss is a fan of toxic employee, and so I think that we have to go in prepared enough to overcome that.

    1. irene adler*

      I would document specific instances and the adverse affect -on the work- that resulted from this event.

      Feelings tend not to matter as much to management- unless you can tie them into lost productivity. Yes, management does worry about employee morale, but that is usually measured in how many employees quit over a period of time.

      And, be VERY careful approaching the boss about this given he is a “fan of toxic employee”. This could very well backfire on you. You’ll end up having a more difficult work environment. Might even have to deal with repercussions from the coworker you complain about.

      I know this because I have to work with a toxic manager in a different dept. I (and others) have been his verbal abuse punching bag for many years. I’ve brought this issue to management. But management thinks the world of him because he gets results. So no action is ever taken. I just have to put up with it. He verbally abuses his reports. Management won’t step in -even when concrete examples of his behavior are presented to them. They just say “We can’t control him. There’s nothing we can do about it. Sorry.” I should add that the managers are also the owners of the company. So right there that tells you – nothing is going to change.

      Yes, I’ve been trying to find another job for years now. Nothing.

    2. Thlayli*

      Isn’t bullying against the rules in your organisation? If so I think you can document it.

    3. Midlife Tattoos*

      As irene adler said, you have to make it about the work and how that person’s behavior is impacting. So, for example, if she’s surly or rude, you can say that you can’t get what you need from her because she is surly. Or that people have been avoiding her and trying to figure things out on their own because it’s stressful to deal with her. Or that other departments have expressed concerns about her and avoid her and that your team is losing respect from other teams. This last might be helpful if boss places value on how his team is viewed by others — that toxic employee is making him look bad.

  59. hermit crab*

    A few months ago, we had a round of layoffs and a substantial percentage of my group (we were previously a ~50-person department within ~500-person company) was let go. At the time, one of my coworkers/friends who was laid off (and who had recently finished a business degree) told me something I’ve been thinking about a lot.

    Apparently companies aiming for a reduction in force can factor in two waves of departures: first, they lay off the people they perceive as having a fewer professional options. Next, the people who have more options see the writing on the wall, find new jobs, and leave on their own. The company reduces their numbers by about 2x the amount of the original layoff but they don’t have to pay severance for the second group.

    This makes intuitive sense to me (and it is absolutely playing out in my department – I’m waiting on a new job offer that *crosses fingers* is hopefully coming soon, and three other people recently put in their notice). At the same time, I kinda doubt management here has that much foresight, especially since they miscalculated originally and we are woefully understaffed now. What do you all think? Is this something you’ve heard before?

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      This seems a little silly as a deliberate technique, because you’re going to naturally lose your BEST performers, and mostly keep the duds …?

    2. CAA*

      Yes, it’s true that lots of companies try to think about the impact of layoffs on the rest of the workforce and estimate how many total people they’ll lose as a result. As you have observed, a layoff creates uncertainty and some of the employees who were not laid off will leave. I don’t know if it’s a 2x factor though, that seems high to me.

      It’s not really about saving on severance payments though, because even if they laid off everyone to begin with and paid severance to all of them, they’d still end up with more people resigning afterward.

    3. Thlayli*

      It sounds unrealistic to be that cruelly thought out. It’s probably more along the lines of “we need to lay off 20 people. We know that if we lay off 10 people we will probably lose another 10. So let’s just lay off the 10 worst performers and hope that the other 10 who leave aren’t the best ones.”

    4. Chaordic One*

      I really don’t think that companies would consider laying off people whom they perceive as having fewer professional options. They are probably looking at people whom they perceive as not performing up to their potential and not meeting performance standards, as well as people whose work is less essential to the operation and whose work could be dumped on the people left behind.

      (It is probably just a coincidence that these are probably the same people who would have fewer professional options if they had to look for another job.)

      I’m skeptical about a company considering how this might affect severance payments or people applying for unemployment insurance. Most companies don’t think that far ahead.

    5. LuJessMin*

      That’s an interesting observation. When I was laid off, I assumed it was my age (58) that was the leading factor (even though the company would NEVER lay off someone due to age!). I also held a high position even though I didn’t have a college degree. Nowadays, most (if not all) companies want even their lowest level employees to have a degree. I have looked for a few jobs since getting laid off, but that absent degree hold me back. Oh well, I like retirement a lot more anyway!

    6. Midlife Tattoos*

      It’s not something we do deliberately, but we are very well aware of the effect on the rest of the team when there are layoffs. So we know we might lose some good people, but sometimes that’s the cost of doing business.

    7. Sue Donym*

      My previous employer is a very large international company. Layoffs were done so that the first rounds were voluntary (certain groups were offered the opportunity to be laid off, not surprisingly these included the most senior people who could most easily retire if they chose). This, combined with the associated increase in voluntary attrition due to other business decisions, was designed to get numbers down to lessen the inevitable involuntary layoffs. Involuntary ones were based on the most recent employee performance ratings which are heavily tied to seniority and then rank stacked to fit in a bell curve of sorts. Incidentally, if you hired well and your department is 99% excellent performers and you force fit them to a curve and lay off the bottom 10%, you’re going to be cutting rockstars. But I digress.

      So, for this company, the first round was intended to get rid of the highest paid employees, and the second round was more of a clearing-house of hypothetically lower performers. And in between, plenty of people just resigned because it was starting to feel like neither expertise nor individual contributions were valued in these cost-cutting moves. Or their jobs were being moved across the country, which also happened a lot.

  60. Jemima Bond*

    A question about office giftiquette! So my boss is leaving. It’s usual in my office for a card to be purchased which team members all sign and also a small collection to buy a gift. It’s a government agency so no money from the “company” is a available for such things but there is no pressure – the card is passed around with a larger envelope and you can put in a few pounds, or not, nobody is checking up.
    Thing is, I really don’t like my boss. A lot of people have left the team because of her treatment of them; she is aggressive, spiteful and won’t listen to anyone. I could go on but we haven’t got all day!
    So I don’t want to contribute to a gift; I don’t think she deserves thanks for bring a toxic influence on our team. I can easily get away with this. I don’t really want to sign a card either because mean as it sounds, it has NOT been great to work with her and I don’t really wish her well. But I fear that many others will feel similarly so it’s possible that grandboss (who is the only one who’ll circulate a card because nobody else will bother!) will end up with an empty envelope and a card with only his own good wishes in it. Also he might see I haven’t signed and think the card just hasn’t made it to my desk, say “oh Jemima you’ve not had Wakeenita’s card, do you want to sign it now?” which rather puts me on the spot. Is this all too mean? I almost want to speak to him in private and say, don’t circulate a team card, because boss is really not well liked and it might be embarrassing.
    What should I do?
    A) neither sign card nor give money and let others make their own choice
    B) omit to give money (or stick a desultory pound coin in) but sign card with duck-billed platitudes for form’s sake if put on the spot
    C) talk to grand boss if he gets a card (he is not a remote authority figure; he sits at the next bank of desks in an open plan area and it would be easy to have a quiet word?)

    1. Ambpersand*

      I would go with option B. It doesn’t even have to be something in depth- you could easily sign “Congrats on the new opportunity. – Jemima” That way you’re covered and don’t ever have to worry about it again.

    2. Corky's Wife Bonnie*

      Can you just put a generic “good luck” on the card and pass it off to the next person? You don’t have to give any money.

    3. Susan K*

      I would go with B. It doesn’t cost you anything to write, “Congratulations on the new job! -Jemima” in a card. It’s not going to make a point or teach Wakeenita a lesson if you don’t sign the card, so just take the high road. Plus, you never know when you’ll run into someone again in your career, so don’t burn a bridge just for the fleeting satisfaction of showing how much you dislike her.

      1. Jemima Bond*

        I think “not signing is not going to make a point or teach Wakeenita a lesson” is right on the nose here.

      1. JaneB*

        And you are happy they have a new job – happy that they are leaving your workplace. So a bland statement in the card is not hypocritical…

    5. Jemima Bond*

      I think you are all right. She is actually taking a career break to travel so I can easily write “Bon voyage!” I mean I might not like her but it’s not as though I want her plane to crash, I’m not that horrible. I shall be gracious !

    6. The Tin Man*

      I am also with the crowd saying B is the way to go. You can even specifically avoid saying things that aren’t true like “I wish you the best” or “I’m happy for you” but something like “Congratulations on the new job”. Even a generic message could make you look good to the grandboss, especially if few others write anything.

  61. seller of teapots*

    I need some advice:
    I recently got a promotion, and I have a question about how to support a senior member of the team. I’m now managing a team of 15. (Technically, I’m not the manager. I’m more of a “coach,” but effectively I’m everyone’s day to day manager–It’s a strange set up, but it works because most of the team is very new to the industry.) One of my colleagues is *great* –she’s the sr member of the team, smart, responsive, really helps lead and cheer everyone on.

    This senior member, let’s call her Lucy–her performance lately has been lower than expected. We’re in sales, and she has some really big stuff that’s hanging out there and if some of it comes through she’d be back on top. But in the meantime, my boss has made a number of comments about being disappointed in/upset with Lucy.

    Lucy and I relate more as peers than anything else, due to the unusual arrangement of our team. And I am not sure what to do–should I mention to Lucy that our mutual boss is a bit cranky (he won’t say anything directly himself…yet) or do I just leave it alone? If I say something, what do I say? I don’t want him to cement an unfavorable opinion of her; I also don’t want to take sides or gossip–I want to act professional and managerial, but I a) would like data to back up Lucy next time our boss complains about her and b) if I were Lucy I’d want a heads-up about the situation. Any advice?

      1. The Tin Man*

        I agree. How long have her numbers been down? Can you say something like “Hey Lucy, I noticed your numbers have been down recently. I know you have X, Y, and Z in the pipeline and you’re always on the ball with everything but I wanted to check in to see if there is anything I can help with.”

        I wrote that quickly so I’d refine it some, but that’s the general idea I was thinking.

    2. Jules the Third*

      And don’t forget to talk up the rest of Lucy’s performance to the boss. There’s a reason why NBA players are ranked on points *and* assists. Would be great if there was some way to measure that.

    3. ..Kat..*

      very few people are always a superstar. We all have low times. I don’t like that your boss is only focusing on recently without acknowledging that she is normally great.

  62. AnnFrancisco*

    How cold can an office legally be?! I’m freezing my butt of everyday, people around me are using foot heaters and wearing blankets – not just sweaters, actual blankets! Yesterday was the summer solstice, the first day of summer, and I was wearing 2 sweaters I was so cold inside. I found out our air isn’t totally building regulated (they turn it on at a specific point but each floor can control). One thermostat is easily accessible, the other is inside of the office of a VP for another department (not sure why’s he’s on our floor). He likes it at icebox temperatures so it’s low. Meanwhile, all of us on the floor are freezing.
    I have a condition called Raynaud’s disease, where when I get too cold or stressed out my fingers and toes can turn blue and be painfully stiff. It doesn’t usually affect me and hasn’t been that bad except for a few occasions in my current office, but it’s getting more and more frequent in summer months and I expect it to get worse as it actually gets hot out. I’m working here as a freelancer so I’m not sure how to speak up. I don’t truly want to tell everyone about my condition, but should I ask for accommodation? Especially considering it’s not just me that’s cold, it’s everyone but Mr. Elsa.

    1. CAA*

      There’s no law about temperature in the U.S, but apparently OSHA recommends somewhere between 68 and 76 degrees Fahrenheit. As a freelancer, you’re not entitled to accommodations under the ADA, but you can ask anyway. If you ask, I think you pretty much have to reveal that you have a health condition that makes it impossible for you to work in an office below 72 degrees, or whatever temperature is your minimum.

    2. Specialk9*

      Talk to your manager. OSHA has regulations on temperature, and ADA has regs on reasonable accommodation. Whether they apply to you as a freelancer is debatable — but it’s highly likely your manager won’t know that. (And the regular employees can report them to OSHA.)

      Also, I believe that one of the questions in “are you misclassified as a contractor instead of employee” is that if you’re a contractor, you should be able to work from any location. Have you checked that out?

  63. Goya de la Mancha*

    TLDR: Have you or any of your coworkers ever “created” their position (paid or unpaid) within your company?

    I was watching “The Office” reruns last night and the episode where Pam makes herself Office Manager was on. I had to laugh, because while my old coworker was never being PAID to do certain roles, she certainly took the authoritative role on certain things. One example was Time off – her job was to receive the signed forms from the Supervisor and send them to corporate for actual tracking. Well, she made out a calendar, log book, and everything. She would mark down the exact time people left with those days, etc., and self-pronounced several times in working with her that she was “in charge” of time off.

    1. Ambpersand*

      I had someone do this at my last job in higher ed- the person was notoriously obnoxious and had the opposite of impostor syndrome…. She worked as a lower level adjunct and tutor, but one day created an elaborate email signature that declared her new title to be something along the lines of “Student Success Coordinator” and started requiring her input on anything related to our tutoring center, even though she had no official power. The rest of us on campus got a pretty good kick out of it, though!

    2. Afiendishthingy*

      My department doesn’t have a department head so my coworker has appointed herself. She’s overbearing and condescending and toxic and manipulative. It’s a problem. Fortunately management has finally recognized how big a problem this is and seems to be taking some small steps towards getting rid of her. She’s taking the summer off — it’s a school — so today was her last day until fall. She took home some strange personal items— her desk lamp, an ugly framed poster on our shared office wall. She told my other coworker she was just going to put them in her garage and bring them back in the fall. Could just be her weirdly exerting control over our environment — my other coworker and I are working during summer session— but maybe she’s planning on quitting on her own terms..

    3. Midlife Tattoos*

      I’ve actually done this twice. In one role, we were a loosely affiliated group of people doing the same things but out of different offices. So I lobbied for a “Lead” because one was truly needed. And I got the job.

      In another role, it was a similar setup to the above, and I thought that there should be a lead. And I got that job too, as an Administrator.

      I learned so much from those experiences, and they’ve definitely put me where I am today. I wasn’t just trying to be ambitious for myself (although I did want to move up) – I legit saw a need, put forth my case and then moved into the role.

      1. Goya de la Mancha*

        I’m impressed that the company agreed and put it into action! Most of the places I’ve worked would have been like “absolutely! You cam donthe work, But we’re not changing your pay or title!”

  64. AnonymousCookie*

    I got the job I mentioned a few weeks ago in another open thread! HR just contacted me about “separating” from my job and it’s finally starting to sink in.

  65. Meredith Brooks*

    It’s official… my boss is my new BEC. We have a somewhat odd relationship, in that she was a peer promoted over me. Like 2 years ago. which I thought I accepted and moved on. But lately, everything she does annoys the living crap out of me. The woman speaks as through she’s wearing a retainer. (none is visible) I overhear (due to where I sit) all her conversations and her tone with clients irritates me. She plays up the fact that she’s a worrier, as though this either should comfort people that they’re in good hands because she’s neurotic or absolve her from being annoying. (It doesn’t). I had a conversation with her yesterday and asked her a pretty straightforward question and she gave me some kind of platitude – think: something along the lines when a door closes, a window opens.

    I’m hoping this is a passing phase… but this has been stuck in my craw for a good 3 weeks.

    1. Jules the Third*

      Honestly, none of that sounds bad at all. Is there something else in your life that’s stressing you, that you don’t want to deal with so you’re focusing on her?

      1. Meredith Brooks*

        She’s not toxic or particularly horrendous, agreed. She’s my BEC, so I also realize that some of my irritation is not entirely logical/rational. However, it’s probably because she was promoted over me. Why it’s bothering me now (2 years later) is unclear. My life hasn’t changed overly much or been particularly stressful. Perhaps I’m creating my own drama. Unclear. I’ll ask my therapist next week. :)

    2. Dealtwiththis*

      I hear you. I resent my supervisor because she does not have any more experience than I have and the longer it goes on, the more that every little thing she does drives me crazy. I try to go home and work out and focus on other things to relieve the stress. Hoping the situation changes for you soon!

  66. Liza*

    So I’ve finally landed a job after a year of searching after completing my Masters. I’m recovering from prolonged mental illness and am very worried about returning to work. Ideally I would have liked to have done a phased return, as one would if returning to a job already held, but as it’s a new job this wasn’t an option. They gave me a choice of past time or full time, and I chose PT so as to not overload myself.

    I’m concerned about the financial side (rate of pay is a little over minimum wage). At the moment I’m living with my dad so bills aren’t a concern, but I’m in my mid 30s now and would like to move out and live independently soon. It would be difficult to do so on PT hours.

    Would it be horrendous of me to continue sporadically looking for better paid and/or full time work while I adjust to a part time working schedule? Would that be considered “job hopping”? Will i even be eligible for anything higher up before I’ve put in a good couple of years at the bottom? This is the first job I’ve had related to my training and career path but I had unpaid experience for around five years beforehand. I know it’s not uncommon for new grads to take low paid work as a foot in the door, but am I abusing my employer if I do this?

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      Wait did your employer initially offer you the chance to be full time? Any chance you could work part time now but transition to full time at that same job once you’re comfortable?

      1. Liza*

        There was a full time position as well, but they’ve filled both, and as I plumped for PT, they’ve filled the FT post with someone else. So unless that person resigns, that won’t be an option. I have been told I can join the bank staff and pick up extra hours across the region covering other shifts, and I plan to take them up on that, but those hours are sporadic and never a guarantee.

        1. Jules the Third*

          Try the extra shifts for a while – as someone with a managed mental illness (OCD), I really recommend not over committing.

          It’s not horrendous to look for more work, but the best place to look for more is within the company you’re already at, since you have that option. A year of ‘over and beyond’ work is enough for you to start asking about career development, but don’t expect much in less than two years.

          Save up as much as you can, though – the more you save, the sooner you can be independent.

          1. Liza*

            Thank you, that is a reassurance. I know in my heart I’ve made the right call going PT but it’s hard not to worry about the future. I’m not sure if it’s the kind of company that offers progression – that’s the one thing I haven’t asked about because I’ve never worked in an environment allows for it. I’ll speak to them about that as well.

            Fortunately I’m able to save up, and I’m still studying so in a little over two years I’ll (hopefully) have a professionally recognised qualification and be able to look at a “proper” career in this field. Although the company I’m now employed with don’t offer those posts (my specialism is not a service they offer), they do have contacts and have said they would happily made a recommendation. I guess its just that interim period I’m stressing over.

    2. Thlayli*

      Thatwould not be horrendous at all, nor would it surprise anyone. Turnover in part time low wage jobs is huge in part because most people take these jobs as an interim solution, just like you.

      1. Liza*

        Thank you. I do already have a couple of other applications being processed, one of which is for a graduate job which is PT but with a really good salary (by my standards). I’ve now had a lovely chat with the manager about my situation and she’s been really understanding (basically said that as much as they’d love me to stay for the full contract of 1yr, they understand that life happens and people move on). So I guess I’m still going to keep my ear to the ground, but probably be far more picky over role and salary than I have been for the past year. It’s a massive relief to not be frantically and systematically job searching after a year of trying to get a foot in the door.

  67. Wendy City*

    I got a new job! I got a new job!

    I’m getting a 30 percent raise, getting out of this micromanagement-based hellscape, and I get the week of the 4th of July off while I’m between jobs :) I’ve only been at the job I’m leaving for a year and change, which makes me a little nervous, but I know logically I’m making the right call.

    Thanks to AAM for being a voice of sanity and a frequent resource while I was job hunting.

    2. Competent Commenter*

      Congratulations! And I don’t think only being at a job for a year looks bad. It’s only if that’s your long-running pattern. I just hired someone who had only been at her last job for a year and I really didn’t care, and neither did my hiring committee.

  68. Tyra*

    I started a new job this week. I was added to the staff email chain and before my first day, I received an email from my manager that went out to all the employees saying that discussing pay was strictly prohibited and if you were caught talking about pay with other employees you would be terminated. I was under the impression that discussing working conditions, including pay, was legal and couldn’t be prohibited. I guess my question is… is this a normal email to receive or is it a red flag?

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      I didn’t think that was actually legal, in the US at least. I would assume it means there are strong pay disparities at play (probably disfavoring minorities and women – but could also be that they just gave a huge raise to a “star” and are afraid everyone else is about to come clamoring for the same). Most of my past jobs have had this attitude and it’s annoying but if everything else is good, I’ve ignored their instructions and carried on.

    3. The New Wanderer*

      Pretty sure you can’t be fired for that in the US so I’d say the email is a red flag. Hopefully the company’s HR will correct that misunderstanding your soon to be manager is operating under.

    4. Jules the Third*

      IANAL, but it’s illegal, BUT the punishments are mild so many employers do it anyway. The punishments ramp up based on the business and various state laws. Good NPR article on it linked to my name.

  69. OMG It's Good News for a Change!*

    Whenever I’ve posted on this thread it’s been because of something negative at work, so I just wanted to post that things are finally looking up! I’ve been in an extremely stressful work situation where I’m expected to cover a range of duties that would require three people all by myself, and after several years of lobbying and about six months of preparation, I’ve got a new employee—and they absolutely rock! I thought it would take them months to get to where they are now. From the first week they were on their game and getting things done. We’ve had a lot of bad hires here and the “help” I’ve been offered before has been limited to temp-type situations with underqualified people, so this is incredible. I actually think maybe I’m not too burned out to stay here. I’m kind of excited about my job again!

    And also, my husband just got a job, and it pays super well!! We’ve been together 15 years and he’s been in college/grad school/postdoc the entire time, and this week he started his first professional job. Truly our ship has come in. The money is game-changing for us. We can do the serious house repairs, pay off our credit card debt in a year or two, and set aside money for our woefully underfunded retirement.

    We’ve struggled for a long time financially and have also dealt with a lot of difficult personal issues. I am so, so grateful that things are turning around for us—lately there have even been some good changes for our kids who have challenges. Thank you Alison and everyone who comments. I’m an avid (fanatic, really) reader and you’ve helped both of us a great deal on our journey.

  70. Canarian*

    Earlier this week I was on an e-mail thread with several coworkers discussing a client who we’d heard had a conflict of interest in some of his work. We discovered someone he’d been funneling business to was his wife because a coworker on the thread linked to their wedding registry with names and pictures. I had to laugh because it was just the exact example Alison brought up in the Googling your coworkers post recently. No one on the e-mail thread said anything that indicated they were weirded out or offended by it, but maybe it’s a generational thing (we’re all older millennials) or just our office culture.

  71. Lillian Gilbreth*

    How do you put accomplishments on your resume when you’re in a field where you just don’t win?

    For the sake of this example, let’s say I’m a custody lawyer who only represents fathers (this is not the case – it’s just an example of how rarely I’ll win.) How do I list accomplishments on my resume when the only way I win is when the other side (the “mom” so to speak) has an incredibly weak case? Most of the time it simply doesn’t matter how strong my case is or how hard I work. The other thing is it may not be totally obvious to someone outside the field how unlikely winning is for me and my clients. I still work hard and do good, even great, work, but I don’t know how to show that on my resume.

    1. Meredith Brooks*

      I think you need to redefine what you consider accomplishments. You mention you do “good, even great, work” What does good/great work entail? Those are your accomplishments. (My brother is a defense attorney and is not unfamiliar with losing cases, but even if his client goes to jail/loses, he may have been able to reduce the sentence or the charges, or found opportunities for appeal.)

      1. AdAgencyChick*

        This. Even if you’re fighting a losing battle, did you do it under budget? Attract more clients than the average bear? etc.

    2. Competent Commenter*

      This is going to be weak because I don’t know enough about your example of legal work to do better, but it would be something like:
      • Handled growing caseload of 25 clients per month, up from 15 one year ago
      • Praised by colleagues, clients and judges for my handling of difficult cases
      • Developed new materials for clients to understand relevant case law, materials were distributed to all firm’s clients
      • Received award for good work
      • Referrals increased by 300% during my time in position

      And so on. Look to things that aren’t about winning but are about what you got done and how well you did it.

    3. Competent Commenter*

      Also I’m going to add that most jobs don’t involve “winning” anything so you’d be more atypical to be able to include wins than not to be able to!

    4. Thlayli*

      Also I know you said that’s not your actual job and just an example, but I read the other day that (in the US) men who seek full custody are MORE likely to get it than women are – the reason most men don’t have custody is because they don’t ask for it, not because the system is biased against them.

    5. ..Kat..*

      Well, you don’t “win” – by which I assume you mean full custody for the father. But do you have incremental wins? Such as instead of no visitation, they get good visitation amounts?

  72. SometimesINeedToGo!*

    Since bathroom habits seem to be discussed so much on AAM, I have a bathroom question I would like to throw out.

    I work in a front office position of a university office. When my colleague who shares the front office is out, I am expected to call around and ask people to cover when I need to go to the bathroom. However, out of my 12 colleagues most will not cover or complain excessively about it. This makes me feel so terrible and I will often not drink water to avoid asking.

    How do “normal/functional” offices handle helping the front office staff go?

    1. Lisa B*

      That is awful! If you’re getting pushback from your colleagues, I’d go to your manager. Don’t deprive yourself of water! “I wanted to ask about front desk coverage when I need to step out briefly, like to use the restroom. I’ve been calling around but I’m either told they won’t cover for me or it seems to be a big burden. Do you have any suggestions how I should handle it differently?” They might be better off identifying a specific individual as your coverage so there’s a clear expectation. Alternatively, how busy is the desk? Would they let you put up a small sign “The front desk staff will return shortly, please take a seat or see Albus in room 43 if you need assistance.”

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      They are obligated to give you restroom breaks and cannot ask you to risk your health by not drinking water/not going to the bathroom.

      First, talk to your colleague who shares the front office and ask how they handle things when you are out. If they are experiencing the same thing, the two of you need to go to your manager and suggest a coverage plan for if one of you is out.

    3. Ruth (UK)*

      For what it’s worth I also work on a university reception desk (for one of the academic departments). I share an office with 1 person but that person often isn’t physically in the office so it’s often just me.

      I have a “back in 5 minutes” sign which I put on the door – I just close the door and go to the loo. I’m probably not even gone for a full 5 minutes. Maybe more like 3? I wonder if it’s worth discussing with your boss whether it’s really necessary to get cover when you’re only going to be out for a couple of minutes, and presumably not even very often.

      If they say you do need the cover, then maybe ask them how you should go about getting that cover, as people seem reluctant to cover you. On one hand, it seems unreasonable for them to refuse to cover for such a short time, but on the other, I guess it’s annoying to have to interrupt one’s work to have to cover for such a short time…

      1. Awkward Interviewee*

        Agree with this. At oldjob I was in an academic department office suite supported by a (fairly high traffic) front desk. Our front desk person would just put out a “be right back” sign. It worked fine.

    4. Competent Commenter*

      Other folks here have good advice. I’ll share my general advice, which is from my husband. He worked for a difficult manager in a busy service store. Other people would say, “Uh, Manager, can I have Thursday off?” and the manager would say no. My husband would say, “Manager I can’t come in Thursday,” and the manager would say okay. Politely and firmly stating what you will/won’t do can work wonders. I’ve used this frequently with various issues and if you’re not a jerk or unprofessional about it, people will usually respect you. Your situation seems to call for this type of approach.

      1. Delta Delta*

        Exactly. “Hey, Albus, cover the phone for me for a few minutes – I’m hitting the loo.”

        1. LilySparrow*

          Yes. You are a grownup. You don’t need “permission” to go to the bathroom.

    5. Jennifer*

      In a normal office, someone would fill in for 5 minutes without complaining about it. It’s five minutes, y’all.

      This is reminding me of the “LaDonna” episode of This American Life, where they did not allow women to go to the bathroom to the point where they had to pee in a cup while on shift.

    6. SometimesINeedToGo!*

      Thank you all for the advice! It’s nice to hear from people in more functional workplaces occasionally. :)

      I have put a sign out when it’s slow and nobody was around to help or answering my calls, but it is highly frowned upon. I will continue this method when I can’t get coverage since it’s really the only alternative.

      I also want to make it clear, nobody is saying I can’t go. I am just responsible for “making” somebody cover for me in an office where I am the lowest on the totem pole. My supervisor can’t even make the employees do anything so I’m not sure how I’m supposed to. It leads to a lot of grumbling that makes me feel terrible/angry/embarrassed.

      Anyways, today is Friday and I DO have bathroom coverage- always a good day! :)

    7. LilySparrow*

      Talk to your manager. You should not sacrifice your health. You should also not have to listen to complaints about normal human requirements.

      Any complaints they have should go to your manager, not to you.

      If your co-workers’ problem is dealing with unscheduled interruptions (rather than with the coverage duties themselves), then perhaps your manager can institute a break schedule for days when your colleague is out. That way your co-workers can plan their work with your break times in mind.

    8. ..Kat..*

      How about setting up scheduled breaks on the days that your colleague is out? I.e., “my colleague is out today. In order not the interrupt your work at an inconvenient time, let’s set up scheduled breaks. How does 10 minutes at 10am and 10 minutes at 3pm sound?” Plus, how do you get a break for lunch on these days?

    9. Margery*

      This actually makes me so angry – you are asking them to cover while you pee and they are being awkward about it – you are not asking a favour – you are asking them to do something that is probably in their job description.

      Next time you ask and they give you a funny look or grumble – say something like – ‘Have I upset you? Is it a problem?’ and don’t feel guilty or worry about it – learn to get angry rather than upset about it.

  73. dudeksi*

    I have a question: a recruiter reached out to me for a position at a firm in my industry that would be exciting, but it most likely something I’m not going to take – it’s 50 miles away from me in crazy traffic, and I’m not convinced it is a great fit. The commute is really the kicker – if it was near my current job, I’d be way more excited, but I just can’t see spending four hours a day getting to and from work.
    However, I’m talking with the department manager soon about it. I didn’t raise the commute issue with the recruiter, partially because I wanted to see if I’d even get to this step. Dept Mgr is someone in my small field who I will likely see a lot for the duration of my career. My plan was to talk to her about the job, and then ask about the commute wfh, etc., and if it doesn’t seem right thank her for her time and let her know that it doesn’t seem like something I could swing at this point. Does that sound ok? I don’t want to burn bridges. I was mostly flattered that they would reach out to me, and it is a potentially interesting gig.

    1. Thlayli*

      Definitely ask about wfh – you’re not wasting time or burning bridges so long as you bow out if it becomes clear wfh is not an option

    2. ..Kat..*

      I recommend making your first interview a phone interview. This will take less of this person’s time, which they will probably appreciate if you decide not to move forward.

  74. Lisa B*

    My male colleagues always jovially greet each other with a hearty handshake. I very rarely see female colleagues do this to each other or to a male colleague. Thoughts?

    1. katkat*

      I have noticed the same phenomenon.
      It’s strange, to me! (I am a woman)
      I will see men that just pass by someone who is visiting from another office, stop on their path to shake hands [aggressively, is that the word I want to use? I mean it like kind of forcefully, but still in a friendly way]
      I don’t understand hand shaking in general as an action, but I still do it if someone else offers out their hand!

    2. Jules the Third*

      I’m a hugger, mostly, until they stick the hand out to shake / ward me off.

  75. Susan*

    I just lied to my boss about why I want to leave work early today and I feel awful. Thinking about coming clean. FWIW he’s a really great friend and knows I’ve been going through a lot of crappy things lately, and has been a huge help for me. He’s always been pretty good about granting me some flexibility even though our company generally frowns upon it. I know he wouldn’t care why I left early but when he asked why, I just said the first thing I could think of. Should I come clean?

    2. Emily S.*

      Nope. He gave permission, so you’re all set. Besides, you said he wouldn’t care.

      Consider it a mental health thing. Everyone needs a break sometimes!

    4. Competent Commenter*

      I don’t think you should feel guilty but I don’t feel very guilty about lying about this kind of thing. My personal life is my personal life. I usually prepare something to say, like, I have a medical appointment, in case I’m asked, or even just “an appointment,” which in this case was true. If said neutrally but firmly it usually is enough.

    5. Jules the Third*

      Don’t come clean, but learn from it – if you don’t like how you handled this, how will you handle it differently in the future?
      (I personally like the ‘don’t give details’, ymmv)

    6. MamaGanoush*

      Don’t “confess” this time. In the future though, be truthful without being too detailed: I’d like to get off an hour early on Tuesday for some personal time. Will that be ok? Or even: I’d like to get off an hour early on Tuesday. Will that be ok?

  76. Persimmons*

    The “how much work should I accept” discussion in yesterday’s freelance question got me thinking…for those of you in a full-time in-house position, how do you decide how much extra time to dedicate to furthering yourself in your field as a whole versus just pushing harder at your job itself?

    I’m at a point in my career where I should be trying to publish in trade journals, attending conferences, etc., but to be honest I often find that just getting through my long work day is stretching my limits.

    1. Jules the Third*

      My company mandates 40 hrs / year of professional development (and mostly gives us time / support to reach that). I’m looking at a job switch that would probably require more tech skills, and planning 3 hrs / week for it.

  77. Blackeagle*

    I just finished reading the book “Bad Blood” by John Carreyrou, about failed biotech startup Theranos. Setting aside the outright fraud and medical malfeasance, the book is just filled with examples of horribly bad management. If AAM ever wanted to do a book length case study of a dysfunctional organization, Theranos would be a good choice.

    1. MechanicalPencil*

      I’m on my library’s waitlist for that book. It’s sounds super interesting on many levels.

    2. CTT*

      I CANNOT wait to read that. I was joking that my new favorite genre of reporting is “Crazy story about Theranos we now feel legally comfortable releasing” (see, the article about the reporter who tried to use the blood testing at a CVS, it didn’t work, and then the fire alarm mysteriously went off just before they tried again and she had to evacuate), so I know this book will be my jam.

  78. Mimmy*

    I’d like to hear your positive experiences about mentoring. It can be from both sides, but I’m particularly interested in hearing from people who have found a mentor that helped them in their career.

    Here is just a bit about what I’m thinking:

    I really want to find a mentor, but I’m not really sure what I should be looking for. I definitely need career guidance in light of everything I learned at the conference I attended this week (see above post) and seeing all the possibilities in this very niche field. So maybe I should be looking for a career coach / counselor first?

    Does a mentor have to be someone in your current job, or can it be someone in the field you’re looking to build your career?

    I think my goal is not necessarily to focus on seeking the perfect *job title* but rather seeking ways to use and develop the skills I enjoy using and to just keep building on my knowledge. I think my current job is a good starting point, but I’m not necessarily looking to be the agency for my entire career.

    1. Overeducated*

      I don’t really find it helpful to think about finding or having “a mentor.” In my last position, I was actually assigned one, and it was kind of nice but not incredibly helpful; in grad school I had to have one, and that person was not terribly helpful, so I found other helpers who gave me their time and advice out of the goodness of their hearts. What was best for me was figuring out different people I could go to with different kinds of work or career questions, whether nuts-and-bolts, niche, or big picture knowledge or advice, and just establishing informal relationships with them so that I felt comfortable going to them with questions. So I’d think just trying to build those relationships with people in jobs you’re interested in or people further along in their careers in your field, maybe informational-interview style at first, is a great first step.

    2. CTT*

      I’ve had very good experience with most of my mentors, but as Overeducated’s post above shows, it can be a mixed bag. Two of my best ones were assigned to me (one through my law school’s career center and the other was my associate mentor at a firm I clerked at), but I had meh experiences with others, and I know friends who’ve had horrible ones. So it’s a crapshoot, which is to say that if you do end up working with someone in that capacity and it doesn’t work out, it’s okay to end things.

      Since you said it’s a niche field, is there a professional organization related to the field? They might be able to connect you with someone to talk to.

    3. JessicaTate*

      A mentor can definitely be someone in your field, not just at your job/school. I think that can be better, as it’s a voice of (hopefully) sanity from outside of your setting, and presumably is doing this by choice, not because they were assigned or required. I also think you can have a casual mentor-like relationship without calling it that. I can think of a former boss who I would call at sticky career moments to “talk it through.” But I would feel weird calling her “mentor.” Similarly, I am mentor-like for one of my former employees, in a similar style of interaction. She calls me at sticky moments, and I help her think through what’s going on or where she wants to go next how to deal with crazy, etc.

      At the stage you are at, it might be helpful to go the informational interview route, rather than full-fledged mentor. That way you could talk to a variety of people in the different areas of your niche field to better understand the options. I’ve done this for a number of young people thinking about my niche field. A good way they got connected is via a mutual contact. Most often, I get an email from a colleague in the field with the introduction, “JT, I’d like you to meet Jane. She’s considering getting into the field of teapot design, and I thought you might be able to talk to her about your path.” If you have a contact who can help get the ball rolling for you, it helps. But I’ve also had coffee with a student at a conference who came up to me after a session. I may be a big softie (I prefer to think of it as “paying it forward”), so don’t take it personally if you get silence in return sometimes.

      And whether you go this route or have a mentor, be prepared with questions and topics you want their help thinking through. (I’d suspect Alison has more concrete advice somewhere on here!) I’m happy to do it, but I’m not preparing for it. I AM likely to give follow-up info or more contacts if we have a productive convo, but it all starts with the newbie’s level of preparation.

    4. tab*

      I had three great mentors in my career. Not one of them was assigned to be my mentor, and I didn’t ask them to be. They were just brilliant engineers that I worked with who always answered my questions, and encouraged me. I’ve paid them back by paying it forward. My advice is to go to the best people in your company when you have questions. To be clear, my questions were of the type, “I have this problem and I’ve tried A, B & C to fix it. I’m thinking maybe D or E would be the next step. What do you think?” It showed that I worked on the problem myself and had thought about the best way to solve it.

  79. SE-No*

    How do you work with someone who is convinced you were brought in to “take their job”? I contract for a lot of companies, usually just to work with SEO analytics and special projects, so I’m never there long. However, on this on this contract, there is a lot of work to be done and I was asked to a lot of writing work to catch them up. One member of the copy team, regardless of what is told to her, is very offended by this. She’s impending work at this point by creating a bottleneck in the approval process.

    Personally, we have no problem, but she just doesn’t seem to understand what a special project is.

    1. Jules the Third*

      1) Talk to her about the scope and duration of the project, and what you think you’ll do next
      2) If she continues to impede, arrange a bypass with the project’s end customer.

      1. SE-No*

        Yeah, I’m hoping to get a firm “end date” shored up here by next week and spoke a bit to her manager. I was given the impression that she doesn’t adjust well to change. I will loop her in on the end dates.

    2. ..Kat..*

      “I am only going to be here until X date. What can I do to make your work life easier in this time frame?”

  80. Lily Evans*

    We had a very annoying library patron interaction at work this week. It’s a college library, so it’s mostly students who use the space. There’s one student who’s been coming in all summer and had gotten into the habit of treating the table in front of the circ desk like a locker, basically leaving his backpack and books there for hours at a time while he disappears. I asked him to stop leaving his things unattended a couple weeks ago, and then last week my supervisor had the same conversation with him and one of his friends. Since the first time I spoke to him, there have been thefts at other libraries on campus so we’re being extra vigilant and we have new signs around the building telling people not to leave their belongings unattended. But apparently he still didn’t get it because yesterday he left his stuff for over two hours when one of my coworkers decided to just move it to the lost and found.

    When he came back looking for his stuff he didn’t apologize for not listening or promise not to do it again. He got mad because he has apparently been doing this for three years and it’s never been a problem before. Then he said he thought it was fine because he’d taken his valuables out of his bag and he was just leaving it while he was in class. But the real kicker is that he said his mom is the one who told him to do it! I just can’t even with this guy. If people who work in the library tell you to stop leaving your crap here, your mom doesn’t get to override that! And just because you do something for three years without getting caught doesn’t mean the behavior was okay that whole time, it just means you didn’t get caught!

    1. SophieChotek*

      The snarky part of me says…find the campus thief and point out the great opportunity they keep missing with that unattended bag…

    2. SophieChotek*

      Otherwise, I guess you could keep moving his stuff to Lost and Found after X amount of time, especially after he’s been warned.

      I guess my other question is: is this practice preventing other people from using the table? Is there a shortage of tables? If there is not…as much as it annoys me…maybe just have to let this one go? I mean, it’s his fault if his stuff is stolen…

      Does library have lockers? My university had lockers. Probably for commuters who did not want to have to bring heavy books back and forth every day but wanted to study in the library…

      Don’t get why he would leave it when he’s in class…but….

      1. Lily Evans*

        At this point in the year it’s quiet enough that there are plenty of seats, but the space he’s taking up is one of the more popular tables that a lot people go straight for when it’s open. I’ve recommended adding lockers several times to my superiors, but it doesn’t look like we’re likely to be adding any. I’m hoping that he’ll just stop doing it now.

    3. Murphy*

      He leaves it there and goes to class?? I’d move his stuff to lost and found every single time, but this may not actually get him to stop.

      1. Lily Evans*

        Yeah, as my coworker who moved the stuff pointer out having his things in lost and found might actually make him feel like they’re safer. Like a loophole around the rule we have against holding patron’s items behind the desk.

    4. KR*

      I’d try to catch him when he walks away. Like, have a conversation with him where you say, “You cannot continue to leave your items here at all. We’re not going to guard or hold these for you and they’re in the way of the other patrons who need to use the circulation desk. ” Then when he drops them and goes, say “Excuse me, come back and take these. They can’t stay here.” Maybe even walk up to him and hand them to him and say, “Take these, I can’t babysit them.” If he doesn’t stop I would continue to drop them in the lost and found and reinforce every time he picks them up that he cannot leave them there and you’re not going to be responsible for lost and stolen items. Is there another lost and found you can dump them in that’s a pain in the butt to get to – perhaps in another building ?

      1. Lily Evans*

        See the thing is that it’s hard to tell if someone’s walking away from their things to like go to the bathroom or make a phone call, or if they’ll be gone longer. And campus security has a larger lost and found, but they only come to collect things that are actual valuable.

        1. KR*

          You know it’s the same guy who always leaves his stuff. Honestly I would just say he can’t leave his stuff at all, even to make a call or use the bathroom. He’s lost that priveledge.

    5. LibraryBug*

      Ugh, I don’t miss telling students I wouldn’t watch their stuff. I would continue to move their belongings to the Lost and Found after X amount of time (whatever your standard is). Is there a larger lost and found than just a box in the library? We had a central one at Public Safety. You had to go during their open hours, fill out paperwork to make sure the things you said were yours actually belonged to you. It feels a little extra but the inconvenience may be a deterrent?

      1. AcademiaNut*

        If the lost and found doesn’t work, then can you get permission (or have the authority) to make him come back the next day to retrieve it? That should be enough inconvenience to get him to change. Or make a special arrangement to send things to campus lost and found.

    6. MamaGanoush*

      I guess I don’t undrestand why it matters if he leave his stuff unattended. Is it taking up space other students need? Are you worried that he will blame you if it gets stolen? Or is it just that no one wants to look at his stuff?

      I do think moving his stuff to lost and found was wrong, btw — your colleague knew it was his stuff, and it wasn’t left when the building was being closed up.

      I work with college students too (not library) and I get it, they can be annoying doofuses. But this seems to me like making a problem where there is none. (If I’m wrong about the situation — I take it back and apologize for the criticism!)

      1. ..Kat..*

        Leaving stuff like this unattended for long periods of time is a safety risk. Universities in the US are high on the list of bombing targets. Bombs get left in belongings left behind that seem to “fit in.”

        Just keep moving his stuff to lost and found. Tell him his mommy does not work here. Seriously, is he adult enough to go to university?

        1. ..Kat..*

          Hmm. Probably wasn’t clear. My comment was a reply to “why do places like libraries, train stations, etc not want you to leave your stuff around, especially when you are not even there.” If your library does not have a policy, get one.

    7. Jaid_Diah*

      Throw out his stuff and deny having knowledge of it. You’re not responsible for lost or stolen items left unattended, after all.

      I know you can’t, but that would be satisfying.

  81. Annastasia von Beaverhausen*

    I’m interested in getting feedback on a situation that came up at my office. The situation is now resolved, so I guess this is sort of hypothetical, but it really did happen.

    Last year a new person was hired as a senior manager to help change manage a situation in my office. There is a group of employees who collectively are unhappy with their work/jobs/compensation/etc and this person was hired to improve that I guess?

    The whole thing went over like a lead balloon and the senior manager was recently let-go for a variety of reasons. This person was also put in place to be my manager; however, as I’ve worked at my current employer for ages, they would come to me and discuss situations, how things were going, etc.

    One of these things they came to discuss was a team building event with the unhappy worker group. The senior manager was delighted with how things had gone, because all of the employees in the unhappy group shared deeply personal stories about recent losses of people in their personal lives, struggles they had with relationships, etc. Many (most) of them cried multiple times through the full day event. The senior manager thought this was a fantastic success because people really opened up and shared all this deeply personal info with their coworkers and cried.

    This is…awful, right? Like, so wildly inappropriate as to not even be in the realm of normal. I was horrified when senior manager told me, but they were so happy with the outcome, I wondered if it’s me that’s off base. Admittedly this person was fired so their judgement is suspect, but this is outrageous, right? Expecting your employees to have a group therapy session under the guise of team building is ridiculous, right?

    2. Jules the Third*

      You’re right, that person was wrong. It’s ridiculous. Waaaaaay ridiculous. Wow.

  82. Mrs. Carmen Sandiego*

    For my performance review, I got a 7% raise and a 10% one-time performance bonus. Besides putting a sizeable amount of it in savings (e.g, for a house, for future kids, savings), what’s the best way you’ve ever spent/used $ from a raise? Best, as in, fun/practical/incredibly useful?

    3. Mrs. Carmen Sandiego*

      Thanks :) If you’ve seen my earlier posts, it’s been a crazy journey to this point (financial independence aside, and finally finding a really good project manager and team *knock on wood*). I’m not used to spending $ on myself at all so I’m curious as to replies (aka, I haven’t bought new clothes in years, I struggle with the guilt of spending $ on myself because I’m not sure how to lol, with the exception of my wedding gown last year).

    4. KayEss*

      The last (and only) time I got a bonus, I used it to buy a new iPhone–went from a 4s to a 6. It’s still my current phone, since my plan doesn’t cover upgrades.

    5. Ali G*

      Depends on how much you want to spend:
      Spa day (maybe treat a friend to go with you)
      Long weekend trip
      One thing I did that I did not expect to like: I had to get a hotel room locally when my house was for sale. It was so fun! I was downtown, could walk everywhere, but no hassle for actual travel. I could sleep in, other people cleaned, made me food all weekend. It was glorious!

    6. ..Kat..*

      My way of dealing with an unexpected cash influx such as this is to use 1/2 to treat myself and use 1/2 as savings (or 1/4 savings and 1/4 debt payoff).

  83. Coalea*

    The good news: I’ve learned that I’m soon going to be promoted! I’m really excited about the new position!
    The bad news: In my new role I will be responsible for managing a current colleague who is an absolute nightmare to deal with. Wish me luck!!!

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      It can still be a win for your resume and a great way to advance your career, so it’s great news – congrats!

    2. Kate Daniels*

      Maybe she will improve her behavior toward you because you would now be in the position to fire her if she continues to be a nightmare?

    3. nep*

      Congratulations. And the nightmare colleague can be an opportunity to shine, to rise above, to be diplomatic, to show your ability to work well despite adversity.

    4. ..Kat..*

      Congratulations!

      I recommend talking with your new manager and coming up with a plan for dealing with the nightmare colleague.

  84. all charitied out*

    You guys ever been confused, write a question to AAM, and then in the course of laying all your issues out on the screen, realised what the clear answer is?

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      YES! Captain Awkward says this is why she’s so strict on the 300 word questions rule (or whatever the word limit is) – it forces you to write down the problem objectively, and then sometimes the answer is obvious.

    4. Charlie Bradbury's Girlfriend*

      I do that on the open thread all the time! I have started typing so many questions and then deleting the entire comment because DUH I know the answer already.

    5. Kathy*

      Yes! I had an issue with a previous intern using me as a reference without telling me and apparently putting me down as his supervisor (I most definitely was not) and I wrote the whole thing down to send to AAM and as I was proofreading, I was like… girl, it’ll work itself out, what are you doing. And it did haha!

    6. mreasy*

      YES! It was, for me, a crucial factor in my decision to leave my job and the industry I’d been in for 15 years.

  85. President Porpoise*

    I am in a job I like, generally. However, I was asked to help fill in for a task (that I do not enjoy) last September because one of the guys who handled that work unexpectedly and unprofessionally quit. He was on a team of two. We hired to replace him by about November, but I continued to help out because the team was overwhelmed. My boss knows I don’t enjoy this work, and has assured me that it is temporary. The third person on the team, the one who has been here longest, is leaving the company next week. We’re putting out an offer for another person to do this work sometime this week.

    I am concerned that the team will continue to be overwhelmed. The budget does not allow for us to replace the woman leaving this week any time this year, probably. I worry that I will get stuck doing a task I do not enjoy as more than 50% of my job duties, despite my boss’s promises (which have been broken in the past). At what point is it reasonable to start job searching, given that I like the other aspects of this job and my team generally? I’d go for an internal transfer, most likely.

    I’m thinking that if I’m still doing this task a year after it was ‘temporarily’ assigned to me, it’s reasonable to seek to move on. Is that out of touch?

    3. ..Kat..*

      Remind your boss that this temporary work has now been yours for 10 months. Ask for a definite time when this will end. My guess is that this is your work now. As such, start looking for a new job to see what your options are.

  86. Liza B.*

    Hi All,

    My boss is encouraging me to apply for this great job opportunity that pays way more than I currently make and requires a high level of professional expertise, managerial responsibilities, and a degree of political acumen. I am pretty new into my career and although I was promoted after one year at my company, I was doubtful I would qualify for the position. After talking to my boss about it, he seems to be really confident that I am a great candidate and it would be such an good opportunity for me to grow.

    Now the issue is, I have not been looking for job. I have only been at my company for little over a year. I think there is still room to learn and I am working on exciting things that I want to see through. My boss said there will always be exciting things and not to let it hold me back.

    At my previous job, I stayed for less than two years. I don’t want to look like I am jumping jobs, but I do think it is a good opportunity and my boss seriously wants me to at least interview. What do I say when asked why I am leaving my current job?

    1. Jules the Third*

      That you didn’t want to miss the opportunity.

      But I wouldn’t apply, personally. I’d tell my boss ‘it sounds great, but I’ve only been here a year, and I want to grow some more in this role before I move on.’

    2. Long Time Lurker*

      If this job is with the same company, internal promotion, then it isn’t job hopping. Just say you were encouraged to apply and are interested because of reasons you are interested.

      1. Liza B.*

        They are not within the same company, but the new company works with us occasionally.

        1. Midlife Tattoos*

          If you don’t already have the skills needed, I wouldn’t apply for the job. After only a year, that’s not growth, that’s getting pushed into the deep end and told to swim.

  87. doesn't want to smile*

    I work in a large manufacturing plant in the quality side of the business. Our plant has a cafeteria that is run by a food service company (i.e. something similar to Aramark). I don’t buy food there every day as it’s pricey, but there is a particular day of the week where they make MTO mini-pizzas so I always get one. One of the guys that is typically a pizza maker has apparently noticed me (I am a mid-30s woman who is small and who looks young for my age) amidst the 100s of other cafeteria patrons and has started telling me to “smile more” or that “I need to smile” every time he sees me. I know that I have resting bitch face but that’s just how my face looks, I don’t feel like I need to walk around smiling all the time, and I feel like this is extremely frustrating and sexist for him to say these things to me, repeatedly. The first time I just kind of went “ok” and the 2nd time I tried to ignore him, but he just kept saying it over and over and even started discussing it with the guy in line behind me (who looked uncomfortable). What do I do here? I don’t want him to do this, but I don’t know how to get him to stop. My interaction with him is about 30 seconds once or twice a week so in the big scheme of things it’s not affecting my life, but it’s so inappropriate and maddening to me!

    1. katkat*

      “I’m fine and would like to relax on my lunch break. Please don’t comment on my facial expressions any more.” Say it every single time.
      If you feel like you’re being rude, remember that he is actually the one that’s being rude by trying to police your facial expressions.

      1. Reba*

        You could even point out, “You say this a lot. Please stop the comments.”

        He will probably not be best pleased but I think awkwardness is the worst that can happen here. And it’s already awkward.

    2. Competent Commenter*

      Good advice from the other commenters, and I’d add that it’s okay to be really annoyed by this! It’s only a brief interaction but it’s like you have to double pay for your pizza, in cost and in embarrassment. That’s icky and unnecessary and unprofessional and sexist.

    3. Jules the Third*

      So, tell him to stop. Use your words. Next time he says it, you can say, “I don’t like being told how to look. My appearance has nothing to do with you. Please stop.” No smile. Deadpan. Make sure he understands you are NOT joking. If you want to help out some sisters, consider including “Most women don’t like it” before the “My appearance has nothing to do with you.”

      When he pushes back (because they always do), “I don’t like it when you tell me to smile. I’m just here to get a pizza, not to give you some fake performance.”

      If he continues, or pulls other people in, call on Authority, “I asked you to stop telling me what to do. It’s not appropriate – do I need to talk to your manager about it?”

      And if he *still* doesn’t get it, talk to his manager. Doing it once is mildly annoying, doing it over and over (and bringing in bystanders!) is just bull, and you have *every* right to call him out on it.

    4. Canadian Natasha*

      Or you could do the thing where you use your two middle fingers to push each side of your mouth up into a fake smile. (Don’t really do this)

      That is seriously annoying and I’d agree with everyone who suggested you call him on his crappy sexist behaviour.

      1. Jennifer*

        Make a printout of a happy face and hold it up in his direction. Perhaps put it on a stick like it’s a fan.

    5. Thlayli*

      “I don’t know how to get him to stop”

      You could try telling him to stop?

      I get that this is sexist and ageist and all the rest of it, and he should just know that it’s wrong and he needs to stop… but obviously he doesn’t know that it’s wrong. He probably thinks he’s being funny and friendly and possibly a bit flirty. He will continue to think this is acceptable and you’re ok with it, until you actually tell him, with actual words, that you don’t like it and you want him to stop.

      Hints and body language won’t achieve this. Use your words.

      1. neverjaunty*

        She does need to tell him to stop, but I would not assume great and clueless intentions. There are rather a lot of dudes who think it’s funny to make women uncomfortable. The attempted bro-bonding with the guy in line suggests pretty strongly he’s not flirting.

    6. LilySparrow*

      “No.”
      “That is creepy. Stop making comments on my face.”
      “It’s really none of your business.”
      “That is really inappropriate. Don’t do it again.”
      “I’m here for a pizza, not your opinion.”
      “Where is your manager?”

      In my experience, you can’t “nice” people out of this kind of thing, and if you joke around it just encourages them. The best backup for Resting Bitch Face is Audible Bitch Words.

    7. Ron McDon*

      A man once said this to me.

      I replied ‘Excuse me?’ with a very deadpan face, eye contact.

      He repeatedly himself, but slightly less cockily than the first time.

      I said ‘I’m curious, would you say that to a man, or do you just talk down to women?’.

      He went red in the face, spluttered a bit, and couldn’t think of anything to say. I walked off, outwardly cool and calm, inwardly doing the moonwalk.

      Ugh. So annoying that this is still a thing some men think is ok to do.

      Please speak up, you could save lots of other women from his ‘humour’ too. The more uncomfortable and embarrassed he is by your reply, the better.

    8. Hamburke*

      I would ask when the last time he said that to a man was…and walk away!

      It’s very sexist but isn’t seen as such when spoken kindly.

  88. Not Maeby But Surely*

    Want to apply to a job but don’t have a way to turn my Word doc into a PDF. For some reason I feel like it’s unprofessional to send a cover letter and resume as a Word doc. Am I being irrational? FWIW I’m applying at a laid back non-profit that I’ve already been a volunteer at for about 4 years, and I do know the hiring manager from that volunteer work. Thanks in advance!

    2. Emily S.*

      When you have the Word doc open, click on File, then “Save As.” Then from the drop-down menu of file type options (below the file name text box), select PDF.

      1. Competent Commenter*

        Yes, do this one. No need to do anything more complicated than this, no need to get a converter, paste into Google docs, etc. Word does this through the print feature. :)

      2. Anonymosity*

        If you don’t have a version of Word that will do this, you can use CutePDF Writer. It’s free and installs as a print option.
        Just click File, Print, and then select it as the printer. A box will open and you can save it to the location you want.

    3. Ambpersand*

      Seconding the suggestion to use an online PDF converter. Or, can you upload your resume and cover letter into google docs (assuming you have a gmail account) and then save/download them as a PDF? That’s where I keep all my resumes and then download them into whatever format I need. I do agree with you though that you shouldn’t send your resume and cover letter as a Word doc, mostly because if they’re using another version of Word it can really screw up the document formatting and then your resume will look like a mess on their end.

      1. Not Maeby But Surely*

        This is what I ended up doing. Super easy! Thanks for the tip! It’s definitely one to remember.

    5. It happens*

      You should be able to do it through Word. On a Mac, Print to pdf. On a Windows machine, Save As pdf.
      Good luck

    6. .*

      I use primopdf, it’s a free pdf converter. You just drag your word file to the icon and it makes the file. I used it cause fonts in my resume got messed up with exporting the pdf in Word.

    7. CurrentlyLooking*

      Try the Print option and change the Printer to a PDF printer

      Most people use PDF to avoid formatting problems – not because a word document is unprofessional

    9. nep*

      Should resumes and other docs for an application be PDF, not Word?
      I’ve been sending things in Word unless employer specifically asks for PDF.
      Oops ?

  89. AvonLady Barksdale*

    I was recently given another area of responsibility, which is kind of awesome. It came with acknowledgement that I’m doing good work (which I needed) and recognition of some of my skills that I think are really important to getting our work done well. It’s also in an area that I find very interesting from a purely intellectual standpoint, so that’s a big boost for me and will help me stay engaged long-term.

    All great, except they want me to split the work with someone else. This person is technically my peer but also has a lot of additional responsibilities in a different area. This person also doesn’t have some of the technical knowledge and understanding that I do, partly because of our very different backgrounds and partly because their additional responsibilities mean they haven’t been exposed to some of our processes on the level that I have. When I mentioned to a (different) colleague that we were both asked to take this on, she thought it was… not a great idea and said she would prefer if I were the only person to take on this new role (having someone take this on will directly impact her work). I don’t disagree with her, especially since the initial transition to this new area will require a bit of stepping back and taking a good look at what’s wrong with the current process, and my peer simply doesn’t have the bandwidth to do that and I do (it’s also something I think I’m good at– figuring out where the gaps are and working out ways to fill them). But then, who knows, maybe this will all work out really well.

    Maybe it’s an ego thing. Maybe I just think it would be more efficient to have one person doing this additional work. But I’m kind of skeptical about starting out this way. Does anyone have any tools or suggestions I can use to make this work and get a better perspective on it?

    1. SophieChotek*

      I guess I am a little confused…both you and she (the person with whom you would share the job with) think it would be better if one person (you) did all the new responsibilities?

      If so, it doesn’t sound like an ego thing…it sounds like a genuine acknowledgement of job skills and proficiencies

      1. AvonLady Barksdale*

        No, the person who wants it to be just me is someone whose work would be affected by this new role. It’s a different person who would be sharing the job with me.

    2. tab*

      It may be that your employer wants to have two people doing the work so there’s coverage whenever one of you is out for vacation, sick time, etc… It’s good to avoid single point failures if you can.

  90. Snailships*

    My employer pays 60% of the cost of health insurance for employees. I don’t take our insurance because the insurance through my husband is slightly less crappy. Does anyone have any thoughts about using this when it comes time for a raise to ask for more money? I mean technically other people who take the insurance are getting more money from the organization. I don’t expect the full amount or anything, but it makes sense to me that I’m costing them less in benefits so could get a little more salary wise. Is this something that happens or is feasible or am I way off base?

    1. Susan K*

      Nope, this is not going to happen, and you’ll look really out of touch if you ask for it. It’s your choice whether or not to take advantage of the benefits being offered to you, and the employer doesn’t owe you a higher salary just because you opt out of those benefits. Plus, what if your husband’s insurance cost goes up or, heaven forbid, he loses his job and you end up deciding to sign up for your employer’s plan?

    2. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      No, don’t do that.

      The main reason employers shouldn’t do this (and should look askance at an employee who asked) is that it leads to inequity. Married people who can use their spouse’s insurance, young people still covered under their parents’ insurance, and people currently without medical needs who choose to forgo insurance would all be eligible for higher pay than others. That’s simply wrong. Your pay should be based on your value to the organization.

      The other reason is that it would lead to all sorts of weirdness around your pay (and everyone else’s) going forward: what happens if your husband loses his job and you switch back to your employer’s insurance? Should people with dependents that receive subsidized health insurance get paid less than folks who just use the insurance for themselves (should your husband be paid less because you’re piggybacking onto his insurance, for example)?

      1. Snailships*

        Thanks. All of that makes sense. I figured I wasn’t seeing it completely and am happy to get that perspective.

        1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

          I hear you! I also don’t use my employer’s insurance and I’d love to bump up my paycheck!

    3. Rusty Shackelford*

      Some employers do offer to put money into a flexible spending account for you if you decline health insurance (Mr. S’s employer does this; it’s a lot less than what they’d actually have to pay toward his insurance.) You might see if that’s an option.

    4. Persimmons*

      In my past three companies, anyone who refused coverage automatically received a stipend. I had assumed that was common…? It wasn’t at all comparable to the coverage, less than $500 each time, but better than nothing.

  91. Charlie Bradbury's Girlfriend*

    I’m working at a summer camp for the first time later this summer. I’ve worked with teenagers before, but not overnight and in the woods. Anyone have tips and survival tricks?

    1. Emily S.*

      Lots of sunscreen and bug spray.
      Extra undies and socks.

      And maybe bring board games for rainy days? Or big puzzles. Puzzles can be really fun.

      1. Judy (since 2010)*

        At least one deck of cards, maybe UNO.

        Sharpies to mark everything. Index cards can come in handy.

        One of the mini composition books to keep notes (phone numbers, game ideas, song ideas, tent assignments, schedule, etc.)

    2. Lumen*

      A lot depends on what sort of camp it is – super rustic, lots of hiking, get used to peeing in the woods? Or more glamp-y, where people are still bringing their curling irons and makeup?

      1. Charlie Bradbury's Girlfriend*

        Definitely glamp-y. There are many opportunities to go hiking and experience nature, but the cabins have decent plumbing and the camp has tons of indoor spaces (nature cabin, stage for theater productions, etc.).

        1. Lumen*

          If you are working with girls in any age from 9 or up, bring extra liners/pads/tampons. Some girls may get their first period while at camp, or just get it unexpectedly, and may feel more comfortable talking to an aide or counselor before going to the nurse (or the nurse is unavailable, etc).

          Sunblock, insect repellant, compostable/biodegradable wipes. Learn to do a proper tick check. Make sure you know the daily/nightly temperature change, because if it fluctuates you’re going to want appropriate layers.

          Enjoy the bonding with your group that happens when you’re all far away from ‘regular life’. It’s one of the best parts of camp.

  92. Fake Old Converse Shoes (not in the US)*

    Rant time ahead.
    This week I had a phone interview with a HR woman who found me on Linkedin. She was eager to mention the company benefits (flexibility, training, office culture, WFH), highlighting their commitment for diversity and efforts to be a great place to work for someone like me, when I mentioned being a part time student.
    She did a 180° and told me that there were no open positions for my skillset, and asked me if I was interested to do an internship instead even though it would be really difficult to get into one because I am too old for one (!). I told her “no thanks, IMO internships are for people without professional experience, and I’ve been in this field for 5 years”.
    It’s not the first time it happens to me, but this was particularly painful because this was a company that sponsors Girls in STEM events, so finding out that it’s all PR feels awful.

    1. Competent Commenter*

      Oh that is crappy! Really crappy! I wish there was a way you could complain about this to her organization as it was not okay. :(

  93. Honor Harrington*

    I work in a very very large building where you do not know everyone there.

    Earlier this week, I walked by the coffee station and saw someone wearing a belly dance costume. I watched her get coffee, then walk to her cube. The next day, I saw her again, wearing a different belly dance costume. Our business has nothing to do with belly dancing.

    What’s the weirdest thing you’ve seen someone wear to work?

    2. KR*

      After giving very specific instructions on how to dress according to our office dress code (pants that fit and aren’t torn, sweatpants, jeans, or pajamas) and a company provided button up shirt, along with giving specific examples of pants sold at Wal-Mart and Target that were under $20 and would meet our dress code requirements in men’s and women’s styles (this person was gender non-conforming and I didn’t want to press a gendered style on them while still trying to teach them How To Be Professionally Dressed), offering to drive the person to either store if they needed a ride to purchase said clothes, and pointing out men and women at our office who dressed professionaly, what made it ok, ect a direct report came to work with their work shirt open, a ripped cartoon graphic t-shirt underneath, slippers and socks, and loose culotte style tan cargo shorts that reached their mid calf and were severely frayed on the bottom. I pretty much gave up at that point.

    3. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I once followed someone into the building who was wearing fishnets, hot pants, a leather jacket, and Doc Martens. I believe it was early March and probably quite chilly. We had no dress code, but I thought this was… unusual. I also used to side-eye a higher-up who wore a lot of chiffon. Like, she would wear suits, but they were more appropriate for a wedding than a sales meeting. I eventually came to really like her and had absolutely no idea where she got her fashion sense from. I also saw an intern walking around the building in bunny slippers, which was probably fine in her division, but I kept wondering what might happen if she ran into the CEO in the elevator bank while wearing those things.

    4. Mouse That Roared*

      Assistant Director of budget wearing a circus master costume. With top hat.

        1. Mouse That Roared*

          No it was not. He did a lot of theatre, though. I guess he was motivating his team in some way.

    5. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

      This is probably pretty tame by comparison, but I work in a college so a lot of high school students have been coming in for info sessions. The amount of butt cheeks, belly buttons, and tube tops I’ve seen in the past three months have been eye-opening. I couldn’t imagine walking into a highly selective college wearing beachwear, but I guess I’m just old fashioned…. at the ripe old age of (almost) 27.

      1. amanda_cake*

        I am right there with you.

        I couldn’t imagine meeting my professors, classmates, and university staff in some of their outfits. It looks like people are going to the club, not to a college orientation.

        Admissions is fun.

    6. Red Reader*

      I have previously mentioned the blue floral print union suit, complete with butt flap, always worn with powder blue stiletto heels.

  94. Disclosing a Mental Health Issue*

    I am a supervisor in a safety-sensitive industry. A peer’s employee recently disclosed that he is undergoing really invasive treatment for a mental health condition. After a treatment, he is unable to work (comes in, but is visibly unable to control emotions and physically exhausted, ends up being sent home). He has exhausted all of his paid leave and doesn’t want to go on unpaid FMLA. Peer asked for advice…at this point, I think it has to be reported to our bosses. The concern is that this employee is not safe at work (for himself or coworkers). If he refuses to disclose or ask for accommodations, is there another choice? He will undoubtedly be put on unpaid leave and then be required to prove that he is fit for duty.

    1. Murphy*

      I’m not an expert, but if he’s posing a safety issue, I think it needs to be reported, unfortunately.

    2. Susan K*

      I work in a safety-sensitive industry, too, and where I work, it would absolutely be the supervisor’s responsibility to report something like this! It looks like, even if the employee hadn’t disclosed his condition, he is exhibiting indications that he is not fit for duty. I get that you and your peer are trying to be compassionate regarding the employee’s pay status, but it is not helping him to allow him to work when he is not in a condition to work safely.

    3. katkat*

      Your peer has to report it. She can go to your boss or HR – HR might have a better strategy for discussing a path forward with the affected employee. If not, and something happens to him or someone else, you could be held partially responsible because you knew it might be a risk but didn’t do anything about it.

    4. LCL*

      Are the logistics of the job such that peer can have the employee stay in a private office ‘studying’ for the rest of the day? If not, it has to be reported. (I wouldn’t allow this at my job.) FMLA is for job protection, peer needs to somehow get this across to the employee that unpaid FMLA is much more to his benefit, now and for future jobs, than being forced out because he is unsafe. This could be as simple as scheduling his treatment for afternoons and leaving early, unpaid FML allows for intermittent, partial day absences.

  95. Green Goose*

    What do you do with a colleague (same level as you but different team) who keeps messing up work/missing deadlines that impacts your work but when confronted they either deny or extremely over-dramatically apologize?
    I have a colleague who messed up multiple deadlines in the span of a few months, I’ve elevated the issue but no one is really doing anything (it gets rerouted back to me to be a better sideways manager) but the most recent deadline issue is now impacting my work right before I leave on vacation and now I’m at my limit.
    I called her and tried to get to the bottom of what happened and she wouldn’t really give me a straight answer but was being very dramatic and focusing more on me being annoyed than on her missing deadlines. I then got a string of texts/emails and g-chats apologizing and I don’t know what to do. Because I don’t want to brush it off (its really not okay that she keeps missing deadlines) but I also don’t think its appropriate to just not respond when a colleague sends you a message saying “I feel terrible! I feel like an awful human being” (direct quote). I want some phrases that refocus on the actual work issue, but also remember that I’m not her boss.
    Help?

    1. Jules the Third*

      I have a similar problem with defensive peers. What has worked so far:
      1) Talking in addition to emailing. I’ll email requirements, then call so that they can hear tone.
      2) Prioritizing – what’s really critical?
      3) Doing the super-critical stuff in tandem with them – setting up a 30 /60 minute meeting where we walk through the work, I document it all and any follow-on actions.

      This is a TON of extra work and really sucks. I have talked through it with my boss, using the ‘Because I had to do x, I couldn’t get to y and z with implications 1, 2, 3. (eg, Because I had to walk Reginald Barclay through filling the replicators, I wasn’t able to check the power reserves this week, which shouldn’t be a problem – they’ve been fine the last six months and we’re far from the Klingons.’) Some times that gets a little more help, too.

    2. neverjaunty*

      Cross examination 101: don’t allow derailing.

      “Oh boo hoo I am the worst person!”

      “We’re not talking about your worth as a human being. We’re talking about the fact that you’ve missed getting me the rice-sculpting spreadsheets for the third time this month.”

      Also, put it back in her: it’s her problem, how is she going to make sure it doesn’t happen again?

    3. ..Kat..*

      Well, your bosses suck. Instead of managing the problem, which they have the authority to do, they expect you to “side-manage” the problem. You have no authority. This is a ridiculous expectation of you. No advice on how to deal with it though.

  96. Forgetful*

    Writing a follow-up/nudge email to a prospective vendor. I’d like to open with a “nice to meet you guys when you visited” but I’ve forgotten the name of one of the people I met with! How do I fake it?

    2. katkat*

      1. Any visitor log in your building that they would have signed when they visited?
      2. How many people were on the visit, more than 2? If so, you could send the email to one of the people (whose name you do remember) and say “please pass my regards on to the rest of your group that visited”

      1. Forgetful*

        1. Haha, nope, we’re nothing so formal.
        2. Only two people, the one whose name and email I have (an account executive) and a logistics guy whose name might or might not be Mike.

        1. Reba*

          Just write to the person you’ve got a contact for, and say something like, “really enjoyed your visit … blah blah substance of the email … it was also great to meet your colleague, but I’m so sorry that I’ve forgotten his name! Would you pass on my thanks to him?”

          I have been there!

  97. Sheep*

    Hi all! Looking for some advice on when & how to negotiate salary. I work as an expat for a non-profit. I know I am going to be promoted into a new (to me and to the team) position towards the end of the year. The organization is mainly dependent on grants, and my boss has started writing my new position into new proposals. However, the salary he has put for me is the lowest of all on that level. My position will be managing a relatively large team and the value of my portfolio will be higher than those of most of my peers’. I want to negotiate, but the position has not officially been offered to me. However, we are submitting the country program’s operating budget soon, and I worry that my negotiating position will be weaker if the current salary remains in that budget. Thoughts/advice?

  98. Fenchurch*

    Every day continues to be a struggle. My manager’s incompetency is through the roof these days. She has been dodging important meetings, when she does attend she’s on her phone. She decided our team of 2 needed a “team lead” plunged into interviewing, extended an offer, and then was told by her boss that there was NO reason to hire this person. She the rescinded the offer, but decided to instead create another position on my level (a step down the ladder) and instead offer that job to the same person. Who decided it wasn’t worth it to him.

    Meanwhile I was on my honeymoon for 2 weeks and my poor coworker had to get through it without anyone filling in for me. So no backup, nobody to lean on, and my manager basically MIA the entire time.

    I came back on Monday and literally nobody on my team spoke to me for 3 days. They were angry with me for being gone.

    Now that I’m back I am 125% devoted to finding a different job. I desperately want to just quit, but sadly that isn’t an option for me.

  99. Putting Out Fires, Esq*

    Anyone have advice for next-steps career planning when you’re pretty sure you aren’t suited for the most common next step?

    I’m a lawyer in a smallish market. Right now, I work as an employee of the State, complete with salary, benefits, paid vacation, etc. there isn’t a lot of internal upward mobility (some in terms of duties and responsibilities, none in terms of salary) and what most people do when they burn out/ are ready to move on is go into practice for themselves or with a small group. All other firms in the area are set up like this: either solo practitioners or three max five attorneys as partners. They usually start partnerships together.

    What that means is that if and when I’m ready to move on (without moving my family), I’ll basically have to start my own business, either alone or with a few other people.

    I’m pretty sure that’s not for me. I have seen my mom running her medical partnership and it seems like all of her complaints are of the “realities of running a small business” variety and less about what she actually does as a profession. I like being able to focus on clients and not worry about personnel or office supplies. I’m pretty decent at interpersonal politics, so I think I could handle the dynamics of a larger firm, but I’m too risk-adverse for a three person office.

    Moving to the state capitol, a large city with several corporate headquarters, would increase my chances of getting a job as an employee, but would be a big change for my husband’s career. He would have a hard time getting a job simply because his field is highly specialized, and I don’t know that I would make enough to justify a one-salary household. Still, it’s an option.

    Long story short, I don’t want to have skin in the game and I like having 401ks and health plans, but my local career options are fairly limited to being a small business owner. Do I buckle down and prepare to be here for my career? Do professionals actually progress or do we mainly just park ourselves in a spot for 30 years?

    1. Jules the Third*

      Most of us would love to be able to park in a safe spot for 30 years.

      But what about remote-work alternatives? Can you do some low-pressure contract reviews or other things? Part-time for one of the local groups? Part time for a local business? Those are things you can do to test the waters without having to commit.

    2. neverjaunty*

      Surely there are larger firms, or smallish firms with openings, in your specialty?

      Do not hang out your own shingle unless it is a path you really want to take.

    3. krysb*

      You could also freelance or work for an organization that staffs attorneys for other companies. Normally we don’t get into personal specifics for identity reasons, but my company is an e-discovery/lit support firm owned/partnered with an organization called Counsel on Call, where they employ attorneys directly, but those attorneys work on cases for other companies. I know there are other organizations that do similar work. It may be something you want to look into.

  100. OldJules*

    Would you apply to a manager’s job knowing that you will be dealing with 2 disgruntled employees as a direct report? I’m curious what managers who goes into such situations do. What is your responsibility if you inherit such employees?

    1. I'm A Little TeaPot*

      Depends on why they’re unhappy. If it’s purely a mismatch of mgmt style, that should calm down (assuming they’re ok with your style).

    2. ONFM*

      I wouldn’t let the disgruntled employees affect my decision. Honestly, don’t we see letters from the other side (“my coworkers are so negative and the boss won’t do anything about it!”). Just manage them. Clear expectations, give them the tools to succeed, give them opportunities for input, etc. I’ve inherited Bad Attitudes before and it’s never slowed me down.

    3. ..Kat..*

      It would depend on whether I was allowed to manage these employees. Would I be able to put them on PIPs? Would I be able to fire them if they did not improve?

  101. Triplestep*

    Are these red flags?

    – Hiring Manager (not recruiter) makes first contact to me via e-mail; it was sent last Saturday night at 9:30 pm
    – Says she’d like to set up a call, and via e-mail we agree to a time.
    – Says she’ll send an invite but never does.
    – I check in her via e-mail on Wednesday and she replies saying yes we’re still on for the call and she’ll send me an invite, which she then does. For a SKYPE.
    – She then changes the time of the Skype over the next day, sending two more invites.
    – I wrote for clarification, and we settled on a day and time. (Today in a few hours.)

    Her LinkedIn indicates that she rose through the ranks at one company for twenty years prior to taking her current less than a year ago, so I suspect some of this can be chalked up to the fact that she’s had one experience as a candidate in all those years. She may not realize that it can be hard to get to a private space for a video chat. (I’ve been taking phone interviews from my car, and that’s been hard enough.) But I did say to her when I wrote for clarification that that a phone call would be easier to schedule, and she didn’t take me up on it.

    Between all this and the weekend evening e-mail, I’m getting a bad feeling. But I’m also not trusting myself because I thought my current boss would be great, and she’s terrible enough for me to be formulating an exit plan 6 months in.

    It doesn’t help that the only place I could find to take this interview is one in which I could get found out – I am so nervous about that, I have hardly prepared for the interview! Gah!

    1. Jules the Third*

      I’m not a hiring manager, but from Alison’s responses here, that’s a yellow flag at most.

      Except for sending it at 9:30 at night – if that’s 9:30 in her night, then yeah, that’s a signal that she’s working some long hours.

      1. Triplestep*

        Thanks. Just had the interview. Got the Skype all set up and guess what? She only ever intended to use the voice feature. The invitation included TWO WAYS of starting the video portion of the call, and fiddling with it made me a few minutes late. I was welcomed by a still photo of her and her voice saying “Oh … did you want to do video? I’m working from home today”. And remember, I made mention of the fact in our back and forth this week that a voice call would be easier to schedule than video. That would have been a great time for her to say “oh, we just use Skype for the call in number.”

        The job sounds great and all else about her seemed fine, but if this is an example of her “clued-in-ness” … I don’t know.

  102. Overeducated*

    My spouse had a first interview yesterday, and feels pumped and excited about it. It was one of those “come see if it’s a good fit and we’ll talk about potential jobs” networking type interviews, not based on an application for a specific opening, and it sounds like there may be multiple openings at different levels and lengths (soft money funded). Next step would be being invited back to give a talk. Please cross your fingers for 1) a job to work out and 2) the job to be at the higher level and last for more than a couple years!

    Of course, this happens literally the day after we get our lease renewal notice, which is due July 1 to give 60 days notice for our September 1 lease, so…that’s not ideal timing. The new job would be an hour and a half away, so we would move to the other side of our metro area for a long term prospect.

  103. I'm A Little TeaPot*

    Only 5.5 days left at this job!!! I gave notice on Monday. I pretty much ruined the manager’s day, since it put them into a really tough spot, but at the same time, that’s why they get paid more than me. I also found out that another person on the team is job searching, and if she leaves the team’s in trouble short term. Long term, it’ll be good for the team actually.

    On Monday, we had a preplanned team event where we all did the DISC assessment then discussed it. I think the manager got some pretty big surprises about different work styles. Specifically, the 2 most experienced people in the group pretty much hate with a passion their preferred style of work/management. Those two? Me and the woman job searching. Not my problem!

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      I feel ya. There’s a lot of us on the boards today! I had been so looking forward to quitting (was feeling really fed up and unappreciated), but when I actually did it everybody was so nice about it that it wasn’t as much fun as I’d thought, haha.

  104. Kate T.*

    Might be silly, but I’m just six months out of college and at my first full-time job so more opinions can’t hurt!

    In this scenario, how okay would it be to ask someone from work out? We don’t actually work together at all (it’s a big tech company you’ve probably heard of, we’re on different teams in different divisions) and we’re both just starting our careers. A month ago our location moved people around in the building; my team ended up moving to the same floor his team is on. The new hires on that floor that have become pretty close and I’ve been making friends with them too. Am I right in thinking it wouldn’t be too unprofessional to ask? (Whether it’s advisable is another thing entirely — I was going back and forth and ultimately decided against it, because I didn’t want to add any tension or awkwardness to the floor/group. I just moved to this city for this job and I don’t know anybody in the state, so I didn’t think it would be worth it.)

    1. Anon for now*

      I think it is generally a bad idea to ask someone out from work. I don’t think it looks professional ever to bring your personal life to work like that. Since you are not working directly together and you are at the same level, it isn’t unethical.

      1. Kate T.*

        I appreciate the distinction you made — it’s good to keep in mind. I’m just torn because it feels like every other person in management ended up meeting their partner through work at this same company (and that they both still work here). I wondered how much it would matter, since it’s a very large office. Thanks.

    2. Amber Rose*

      It’s not unprofessional unless you do it during work time. If you ask during lunch or after work or something, that’s fine.

      It’s still not advisable though, unfortunately.

    3. The Tin Man*

      I agree with the “It’s not unprofessional but it generally isn’t advisable.” People meet significant others at work all the time, but people meet significant others not at work too. Like you said, you don’t want to create any awkwardness, especially at a new job.

      Admittedly I may be biased because I met my fiancee on OkCupid, which she was on specifically because she did not want to date anyone at her law school.

    4. Judy (since 2010)*

      As long as you are in different divisions, I don’t see a problem with it. I’ve worked in really large companies, with 4000 people at a site. Many couples met at work and remained working there after marriage.

      1. Jules the Third*

        Yeah, what Judy said.

        It’s bad if:
        1) It’s up or down the reporting / seniority chain
        2) You know there’s a significant other and this would be cheating
        3) The asker doesn’t take ‘no’ (or any future breakups) graciously
        4) The asker tries it as a ‘stealth date’

        It can be iffy if you have to work with them all the time, which is what often happens in small companies and makes it a bad idea in general there.

        1 & 2 don’t apply, the fact that you’re asking implies 3 & 4 don’t apply, and you won’t be working with them all the time.

        If you do start dating, keep away from them during work except for occasional lunches – no daily desk stop-offs for long chats, no hand holding or kisses. It’s pretty normal for people to date co-workers, especially in large companies.

      2. neverjaunty*

        There’s a mysterious law of the universe by which the worse the break-up, the greater your odds of constantly bumping into that person at your workplace.

    5. tangerineRose*

      I have a rule to only date when if it doesn’t work out, we can avoid each other most of the time.

  105. Aurora Leigh*

    If you’re pretty sure your company will have to close down or have massive layoffs in a couple of years, what would you do?

    I’m in customer service at a family owned business that has been a big employer in our area for generations. But they haven’t turned a profit for several years. Basically the company hasn’t adapted well to changing times (the website is horrible and so are our in house systems). In company wide meetings, the owner talks about how bad the numbers are, but says we’ll make to it the (big year) anniversary, that is 2 years away. He’ll also be retirement age that year (we celebrate his bday every year).

    So what I hear, is there’s basically 2 years left. I’m coming up on 2 years here, my last job was a 1 year stint (part time), the one before that was 6 (part time in high school and college, year round).

    I don’t want to look like a job hopper. At this point I’m just keeping an eye for positions that might be better. I picked up a part time job with flexible hours.

    Most people in my department have worked here for 10-20+ years and are just talking about how many years they have left till retirement. They seem to be in denial about how bad things are, and it’s frustrating.

    1. Junior Dev*

      Looking for other jobs is good. Since you now have a job and don’t seem in immediate danger of losing it, you can be picky and look for jobs you think you’d really like.

      Another idea is to start doing things that aren’t directly looking for jobs but will make you more employable:

      * Take online or night classes towards a degree or certificate (or day classes if it works with your schedule)
      * Polish up your portfolio, if you’re in a field where that is relevant (or trying to break into one)
      * Do volunteer work
      * Look for freelance gigs (with more of a focus on being what you want to put on your resume than what you need to pay the bills)

      Also, keep in mind there’s no guarantee that you have two years. I think applying for other jobs is good; also try to build savings and figure out the process for applying for unemployment benefits and other social services benefits and get the paperwork in one place for it. (I got on food stamps the last time I was unemployed because the state office that handles them will get you your money within a week, whereas unemployment can take months to process.) I’m not saying this to scare you, but I think taking concrete steps will actually help relieve some of the stress about what will happen if you lose your job.

      2. AdAgencyChick*

        Agreed. Two years and “I’m looking to move because the financial stability of my company is in doubt” would never add up to job hopper in my mind.

  106. Shay the Fae*

    Any tips for dealing with very mentally taxing, slow going work? Listening to AAM comments in the background (using text to speech) helps. But there’s only so much I can do before I get a terrible head ache. And I just want to be done already.

    1. The New Wanderer*

      I listen to instrumental music, mostly classical. I find lyrics too distracting. I also include mini-breaks when it makes sense to, like work one hour, take a 10 minute break to walk around. Or, get finished with one section, take a break.

      Also, how do you do the text to speech thing? Do you have an app you recommend?

      1. Shay the Fae*

        I use speak it! It used to be a google chrome extension. Let me check if it is still up…
        It is! They take it down every once and a while (I’m not sure why… but it always scares me, except then I figured out how to port an old version to a new device).
        I personally listen to UK female (even though I’m in the US) at 630 wpm. I wish it could go even higher, but oh well. I’ve been using it for years and years now, and my internal voice has switched to mimic it. It also screws with my speech too lol. I have a t2s ascent.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Maybe listen to a podcast? Something like “Stuff You Should Know” would probably make some good background noise.

    3. DrWombat*

      I listen to music in a language I don’t speak, so that I’m not tempted to try and translate it – Eurovision playlists are good for that IMO!

    4. Jaid_Diah*

      Bollywood music is pretty darn upbeat and you don’t have to pay attention to the lyrics. Some of the female singers can have an annoying pitch, though.

  107. Spiegs*

    I applied about 6 months ago for a director level position at a nonprofit that was creating a new dept. I never heard anything. This week I saw an assistant director position for that same dept for that same type of job. The description has that person reporting to a different director title, not the director position I originally applied for so it looks to me as though they are creating the dept along different lines than maybe they originally were planning. I would be happy to get into this organization at an assistant director level. Do you think it would look bad to apply after originally applying for a director level job?

    1. Boredatwork*

      I think that since it’s been 6 months and you never heard back, that you should apply. I mean worse case you never hear back (again).

  108. k.k*

    Should I list my current job on my resume after only a month?

    A month ago I started a new job and almost instantly regretted it. The job is a horrible fit for me for reasons are that are integral to the organization and the position and can’t change. These issues were seriously sugar coated and misrepresented during the interviews. I’m job hunting again, but do I list this job on my resume for now? In the future I’ll leave it off of course. I don’t want potential employers to think I’m unemployed because I still have to work around my current job to schedule interviews, and they say it’s easier to get a job when you already have one. Or does having a one month job on your resume look worse than not having a job? I’m confident that I can explain this situation in interviews, but need my resume to get me through the door first.

      1. Sloan Kittering*

        Yes, I’d say unemployed looks better than a one month departure. They’re likely to assume you were fired.

        1. k.k*

          I’m still employed so it would read something like May 2018-Current. So I’m not worried that they’ll think I was fired. Thanks.

          1. Sloan Kittering*

            I’d likely still think you were probably about to be fired, TBH, if I saw you’d only been there for a month.

    2. The New Wanderer*

      I’d use the resume you were using when you were job hunting and got this job. For scheduling interviews, you can always use vague reasons why you can’t make a particular time if there’s a conflict with your current job. Even though you can explain it, seeing that one-month job on the resume before you get to the explaining part doesn’t work in your favor since they won’t know why you’re willing to leave a job you just started.

    3. irene adler*

      Can you explain via cover letter why you have interest in the potential new job so quickly after being hired at your current position?

    4. Drama Llama*

      It would be a red flag if you’re job searching after one month. I would leave it off. You can mention you’re doing some casual work now if your current job does come up.

  109. Junior Dev*

    Hugs to evey who’s found the news extremely upsetting this week. I won’t go into detail because we aren’t supposed to talk politics. But I have several coworkers who have also been feeling extremely awful about what is going on, so I’m guessing there are others reading this feeling despair about the state of the world.

    I took the day off. I scheduled a massage. The stress was getting so bad that I was getting irritated about really minor things at work and was afraid I was going to snap and either yell at someone or start crying. I couldn’t concentrate.

    Anyway, among other things, I’m glad this blog has taught me it’s ok to take time off to fight burnout rather than try to power through.

    1. Anonymosity*

      Feel the same; it’s been a rough week. Self-care is important no matter what the source of the stress.

    2. Thlayli*

      I deleted my news apps a long time ago. Following the 24 hour news cycle actually can cause symptoms of ptsd – it’s all so miserable. I just listen to the headlines every day or two to keep up with what’s going on and that’s it. I couldn’t handle watching the news every day even before I got depression.

      I read that mentally healthy people actually see the world as better than it is – there’s a thing called depressive realism which means that if you allow yourself to fully acknowledge how awful the world is you will make yourself mentally ill. Humans can’t handle the constant knowledge of the worst things happening in a world of 7 billion people. This may be one reason why intelligent people are more likely to develop depression.

      Which is all to say – give yourself permission to tske a break from the news.

  110. On Twos*

    Freelance resume question! Kind of a two-parter, I guess. I do some storyboard/animation work freelance, but my goal is to get a studio job storyboarding. Under the Freelance Animator segment of my resume I have a bullet-point list of projects I’ve worked on, with brief descriptions of what the projects are and what I did on them. (I’ve averaged about one a year the last 4 or 5 years, so that works out okay length-wise.) Is that a normal way to list freelance work?

    Second part: how to list unaired work. I’d like to include my latest project on the list even though it didn’t include storyboard work specifically, mostly because it was for a Big Name Company, but should I make a notation that it hasn’t yet aired? Does it even matter? Long turn-around time is pretty normal in the industry – I just have no idea how people actually list this stuff since I’m so very out-on-the-fringes and green.

  111. Anonymous Newish Manager*

    I work at a small non-profit with a generally wonderful staff that’s reasonably diverse with one exception – we have far fewer African-American employees than you would predict based on the diverse city we’re located in. I’m just one rung above the bottom in the hierarchy, but it seems like our hiring process is reasonable; we’ve just had several (less than 5, but there’s only about 35 total employees) African-American employees either quit or be let go over the course of the last two years. I’m concerned that while our hiring process may be reasonable, something in our mentoring / feedback / support / coaching / managing / orientation / review process is culturally biased or insensitive in some way.

    I’m particularly concerned because another department was just dissolved and I’m going to soon inherit one of our only African-American employees, and she’s already on a PIP. (She seems happy and excited to join my group, and we have a decent relationship, though I’ve never worked with her directly. The concerns about her performance seem to be totally valid and objectively observable. I’m white, but the group I lead is diverse for its size (4 people + me) in terms of age, race / ethnicity, religion, politics, language, etc.)

    I don’t want to make something about race / culture if it isn’t (it’s a small enough number of people that it could be a coincidence) but if we are doing something wrong, I definitely don’t want to perpetuate it and I’d like to help fix it.

    Anyone have any advice or suggestions for things to read / watch?

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      Just sympathy. I’m SO FRUSTRATED with my current workplace around these issues (we are a nonprofit so we should really be held to a higher standard). They have an Intern program that … is specific to a mostly white, expensive university – so they’re ensuring the next generation, which gets a hearty – paid! – boost through this program – will continue to be lily-white and upperclass. To watch them pat themselves on the back over how great they are to be Helping the Youth makes me sick.

    2. Anonymous Newish Manager*

      ahh! my apologies. I should not have used the word “inherit” there. Definitely not an appropriate word choice for this situation, and an example of the *exact* thing I fear we may be doing on a larger scale.

      I’m mortified. Please help me suck less.

    3. Justin*

      It’s a big reason why I left my nonprofit job. They were nice people, but it was very much an attitude of “we caucasian people have descended from on high to help the poors” thing.

      More white women named Lauren than people of color once you got above entry level.

      I would say, push for cultural competence and sensitivity in the present staff, and if you are able, ask your new report if she has always felt comfortable socially (or whatever) at work. And push for hiring to look outside of normal channels.

  113. WonderingHowIGotIntoThis*

    Work is now affecting home life. :-(
    Nosy McNoneOfYourBusinessFace (hence forth known as Mr Mumbles, because one of my other co-workers has started complaining about his volume control) is demonstrating a frustrating inability to grasp the most basic concepts – concepts that he totally had last week! (“scroll up to the top. use the scroll bar. the scroll bar. on the right hand side. the right. the SCROLL bar…..”)
    Nice coworker – who always makes it hard to snap at because it’s like kicking a puppy – has handed his notice in. (He’s had the year from hell, but all in his private life.) He’s taken a job that is geographically closer to home and is tying himself in KNOTS with guilt over leaving the team he has enjoyed working with most in his career. Of course, this means I’m going to have to pick up the slack (well, me and Co-worker 3, because Mr Mumbles is REALLY not up to scratch yet)
    Manager is on leave, so Nice coworker has had to by-pass policy and hand his notice in direct to HR – another source of guilt for him. And I’m back in my usual role as deputy – all the responsibility, but none of the rights.

    And so I’ve snapped at hubby. My work/life balance has tipped. AND IF ONE MORE PERSON JUST STANDS AT THE WATER FOUNTAIN BEHIND ME AND GULPS A DRINK LIKE A MAN IN A DESERT I MAY JUST PUNCH THEM OUT OF THE WINDOW!

    (sorry about that)

    Thank you for letting me vent – again. And again. And again. It will get better. Won’t it?

    1. Kat in VA*

      It’s bad right now. It won’t be bad forever. At some point in the future, you will look back and maybe not laugh, but at least amusedly roll your eyes. Hang in there!

  114. Nervous Accountant*

    Oh office politics, gotta love em

    basically my team was split from 2 to 3. Which means a new team leader, who was transferred over from another team. (This was the promotion I mentioned in last week’s post that I could have gotten but I screwed myself over).

    I’m not mad about not getting the promotion, so I”m not saying this to be bitter, but just based on things I’ve observed and heard, I’m not too thrilled with this TL so far. I liked him a lot and I thought he would have been perfect to lead his team. But our boss didn’t promote him to that team b/c his girlfriend is on that same team and she didn’t want to move.

    Anyway, what we’re seeing now from him is, “(previous team) was a well oiled machine, can’t wait to clean up this team.” “I want to bring the (previous team) mentality to (new team).” Seeing as how my mgr and I have done a lot of work to develop and train our team, we’re both rightfully annoyed at the insinuation that our team sucks.

    I was sitting in on a managers meeting yesterday (my first one). My mgr & boss weren’t there bc they were in a meeting w someone else, and the other mgrs and they didn’t understand something that my mgr had written. I kept saying what it was but I felt totally ignored, but it could have been b/c I was super quiet.. They also kept pointing out that all the examples were coming from 1 accountant on my team, and it really rubbed me the wrong way. That employee had been the only one to actually respond to a question we’d sent out.

    So..yeah. politics. yay.

  115. Evil Left Ovary*

    Would you find it unprofessional if you saw a woman putting a hot compress on her abdomen at work?

    I have a large ovarian cyst, and the only things that relieve the pain are curling up in the fetal position and putting heat on it. No OTC meds have done anything for me. Some days it is bad enough that I find it difficult to stand for more than a few minutes.

    Obviously I can’t curl into a ball at work, but I have a hot compress sitting at my desk leftover from when I was in a car accident a while back. Would it look bad if I used it on my abdomen to help with the discomfort when I’m at my desk? Obviously if people see it they’re going to assume I have cramps and some people find it to be tmi. But I work pretty independently and people mostly only ever come by to socialize.

    I personally wouldn’t be bothered seeing someone do this, but I tend to be pretty relaxed, and seeing people here getting up in arms about bare feet and such makes me wonder if people would be made uncomfortable by this too. Thoughts?

    1. TCO*

      I don’t think it’s a big deal, especially when weighed against your ability to be more comfortable and productive at work. Do you have a sweater, blanket, or wrap you could drape over the top to make it less obvious?

    2. Lil Fidget*

      Can you bring a Desk Sweater or blanket and keep it on your lap? I have a woolen shawl for this purpose. I pretend the office is just really cold (it is a little chilly, but actually I have terrible cramps).

      1. Evil Left Ovary*

        I do have a shawl at my desk! I hadn’t thought of that and it would work pretty well!

    3. KR*

      Can you work from home? I had an IUD put in and it’s pretty much like the most awful period cramps for a day or two when it’s put in. I just took my laptop and worked from home so I could have my heating pad on my lap because I couldn’t walk without hunching over.

      1. Evil Left Ovary*

        Sadly no :( Even if I could this will probably go on for a while longer (it’s taking me a long time to get in to see a specialist to have it dealt with), so it wouldn’t really make sense just to take a few days off (although I did call in sick once)

        1. KR*

          Oh I’m sorry to hear about that!! Rock that hot water bottle/heating pad. You have a painful and serious health condition. Maybe you can get a small heated blanket which may be a bit less conspicuous.

    5. Charlie Bradbury's Girlfriend*

      I wouldn’t bat an eyelash if someone at work was using a hot compress. Go for it.

    6. DrWombat*

      Wouldn’t bother me, but as a just in case, I found the ThermaCare stickable heating pads super helpful when going through something similar – they’re really easy to hide under clothes, and I’ve used them for everything from cysts to sports injuries. I am so sorry you are going through this – hoping you find a solution soon!

    7. Thlayli*

      No – I would assume she had bad menstrual cramps or something and would be sympathetic and impressed by her dedication.

    8. Another evil left ovary*

      Oh hey! I also had an evil left ovary with cysts (got the whole dang thing removed 6 weeks ago cause it was shot…yay endometriosis). I would use a microwavable bean-bag/heating pad and kinda curled up by using a tall footrest and no one said anything about it. I’d also throw one of my office sweaters/cardigans over it to hide it/not burn my arm. None of my coworkers minded. Actually, most of the guys here are or have been married so they weren’t fazed.

      Not a doctor, but talk to your obgyn about getting better pain meds or having your cyst removed if it hurts you that badly. You shouldn’t just have to power through it, not at that pain level.

      1. Another evil left ovary*

        Just saw that you’re working towards seeing a specialist – awesome!

        1. Evil Left Ovary*

          Thanks! I’m glad I’m not the only one going through this, and I hope you’re feeling better! The Canadian Healthcare system is slow but I hope it will be out soon enough (I can’t wait, actually)

    9. Dealtwiththis*

      You also may want to try the stick-on heating pads. They make them specifically for cramps but are hard to find so I have used the ones for back muscles with success as well.

    10. Someone else*

      I would think nothing of this unless the compress itself were, say….covered in My Little Ponies or something else conspicuously not work-wear. I mean, assuming people wouldn’t wear graphic tees in your office. But just the having a heatpad or something in general? Wouldn’t even blink.

    11. Jaid_Diah*

      I have used Thermacare patches that adhere to the skin and provide heat for 8 hours. Very discrete and you can go anywhere with it on. I also found a TENS unit to be helpful. Both are available at pharmacies and supermarkets (at least where I live…)

      Personally, I would be professionalism be damned if I were in such pain and it sounds like your co-workers wouldn’t be concerned about it.

      I wish you well, ELO. May you have blue skies!

  116. Juli G.*

    My workplace is super flexible about hours. I tend to be a later in the day person and often leave around 6 and may log in late at night.

    One of my coworkers is an early person and usually out before 5. At 5:40, maybe something will come u I need to ask her about so I send an email asking for more info.

    Without fail, she’ll immediately respond with “I’m gone for the day.” Then I have to hope I remember to email her tomorrow when she’s available because she likely won’t reply again.

    It’s just so frustrating! It’s fine you aren’t working. Answer me tomorrow!

    And honestly, it’s not just after her work day. Sometimes she responds “I’m in a meeting”. Okay. Fine. Unless I mark it urgent, I’m hoping for an answer within 2 business days.

    I’ve tried talking to her about it. I’ve tried texting her to say “hey, sent an email but don’t need a response tonight”. I’ve tried putting in the subject line “No answer needed until morning”. Didn’t work. I try to only work on issues that need her when her calendar looks empty but we work together quite a bit and it doesn’t feel fair for me to work on my peer’s schedule because she’s got a quirky email response system.

    Is there anything else I’m missing here?

    1. jack*

      Is this an automatic reply or is she responding each time? That seems like a lot of effort if she’s responding to EVERY email after hours.

        1. jack*

          that’s so odd. I don’t know if there’s anyway you can stop her from doing this, she might just feel like every email needs a response ASAP. Can you send your message while you’re thinking of it, but delay delivery until the next morning? Outlook has that function under ‘Options’.

    2. KR*

      Can you have a specific conversation where you say “Celia I’ve noticed that when I email you after you’re gone for the day you respond with “I’m gone for the day.” I’m trying to cut down on clutter in my inbox – can we assume that if I email you after hours I’m not expecting an answer for at least 2 business days?” Honestly I would loop in a manager when she doesn’t respond to the original email after replying back to you. If someone emails me and I don’t intend to respond right away I put it in an action items folder, flag it in outlook, or make a note to myself to respond to it. Just because the email was recieved after hours doenst mean she gets a free pass. I wonder if you could respond when she says she’s out for the day with an “Of course, my expectation would be to get an answer in the next day or two when you’re in the office.” Or “Yep – I can see your desk is unoccupied! This isn’t marked as urgent!”

      1. Juli G.*

        You’re right. I’ve been more joking/casual about it but seriously addressing the issue is the way to handle it. Celia doesn’t take criticism very well but she’s making my job harder than it needs to be and she’s wasting her own time.

    3. E*

      This seems odd to me. For requests I receive and can’t get to right away, I tend to say “I’m in a meeting but I’ll get to this tomorrow morning”. She should be tracking these requests and finishing them, even if her immediate response is to explain why she can’t answer right now.

      1. E*

        Just a thought, could you respond to her emails with “thanks, please review in the morning and get back to me”? That leaves the ball in her court, and you only need to follow up if she doesn’t answer the next day by x time.

        1. Courageous cat*

          Yeah, or just consistently respond something along the lines of “No need to tell me – you can respond tomorrow!”, just copy and paste in response literally every time she does this and I would think she’d get the hint.

    4. Owler*

      Does your email program have a function to delay when your email gets sent? If it does, just schedule it for 6am the next morning. You will have cleared it from your inbox, and she will rec I’ve it when she’s back in the office.

  117. Eugenie*

    My boss has asked me to create a career development plan for myself. I’ve never done one before and he wasn’t able to offer much guidance when I asked questions. Any suggestions? I’m pretty happy with my role and the organization, moving up would definitely mean going somewhere else, which I’m guessing isn’t something I should put on there. Thoughts?

  118. poweringthrough*

    hello everyone! long time lurker, one-time emailer, first time commenter. I guess I just want to get some input on my work situation. I work at ToxicJob and have been here for almost 2 years, and am very close to leaving. I have an interview lined up at a friend’s work, she gave me a reference and things are looking great. My one issue is that my boss (only other employee) is going on a 3 week holiday starting next week until mid-July. I’m very scared that this interview will go well and I’ll get an offer and have to give my notice while he’s away (on another continent, no less). has anyone experienced anything similar? any tips to keep myself calm until I know something? right now I’m just giving myself anxiety thinking of the future even though there’s nothing to worry about yet.

    1. jack*

      Alison has answered this before! Link in name

      “What if you need to give notice but your boss is on vacation?
      If your boss is away, it’s fine to give your notice to someone else — HR or, if you don’t have an HR department, your boss’ boss. It’s less than ideal, but people will understand why you wanted to alert them right away and not wait – and most of them will appreciate it.”

      1. poweringthrough*

        thank you so much! yes, I think I came across that post…unfortunately there’s nobody else to report to other than him, but she’s definitely right. I can’t do anything else!

    2. Lumen*

      If you get an offer for a new job, take the offer and put in your notice. If your current boss (who is probably the main source of toxicity if they’re the only other employee) can’t handle it… cool. Let them feel their feelings and do what they’re gonna do, because it will SO not be your problem anymore. Send them a brief email letting them know that your last day will be X and then go get yourself a celebratory beverage of some kind.

      But that’s all in the future. You don’t have an offer yet. So feel good that you have a prospect that is looking good, and then focus on your work and keep sending out your resume anyway. All you can really put your energy towards is what to do today, this hour, this moment.

      I hope things turn out well for you. :)

      1. poweringthrough*

        thank you! he is the sole source of the toxicity and the only other employee is leaving at the end of July so I know I would be putting him in a not-so-great situation…but that’s his fault for leaving for 3 weeks with only 1 person as backup, right?

        thanks so much for your well wishes. now that you’ve mentioned it, if all goes well, I *will* go get myself a drink. thanks again!!

        1. Lumen*

          Also, when you’re a terrible boss who creates a terrible work situation? PEOPLE ARE GONNA LEAVE. And shockingly, they won’t necessarily do it when it’s most convenient! That’s on your boss, not on you.

          Cheers!

          1. irene adler*

            Exactly!
            Just keep going and don’t fret the fall out that boss will have to deal with.

            Bad bosses need to face ALL the problems their poor management creates.

    3. Bea*

      My POV in this situation is he deserves this stress, he created a toxic enviornment and can lay in the mess he made. Boohoo crocodile tearssssssss. You’re a good person, in your situation, I’ve walked out because Ef-that-guy.

  119. GoodAtWhatIdo*

    Any thoughts on the pro-s/con-s of staying in a job for more than 10 years versus leaving to prevent the idea that you can’t do anything else?

    I understand there is always more to it than that, but I have been thinking about this specific question for a while, and I’m interested in the group’s thoughts.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      If you really enjoy the job and have no reason to leave (i.e., you won’t be priced out of living in your area, and you’re fairly sure you won’t be laid off or fired), you can stay at that job.

      That said, I don’t think it’s really about preventing the idea that you can’t do anything else, but I have noticed people who stay in one job for a long time (15-40 years)—even if they’re keeping up with industry trends and attending professional development conferences—tend to think that their workplace is the norm and tend to question less the way their workplace does things, even if they do sometimes complain.

      I honestly can’t imagine staying in one position for ten years. For me, it’s been 5 years max so far, and I have no regrets about that. I’ve loved learning new things and helping to improve different schools… and then going elsewhere and learning how they do things and helping to improve things there, too. Work cultures can be wildly different, and approaches to solving problems can also be wildly different, so sometimes it’s good to get “out there.”

    2. Lil Fidget*

      I think Alison also answered this question, about when it can hurt you to stay in a job too long. I will look for that article in the archives and post it as a reply if I find it. I started to worry around six years that I would look like an inflexible stick-in-the-mud. It would have been better if I could demonstrate that I moved around departments, but I didn’t, although I was promoted during that time. If I was close to retirement I’d probably try to hang on, otherwise I do think there can be value to moving around.

      1. Anonymous Educator*

        I started to worry around six years that I would look like an inflexible stick-in-the-mud.

        I think what that range of “stick in the mud” years looks like will vary based on industry and type of position. For some, it can be as little as 3-4 years. For others, more like 15-20 years.

        1. GoodAtWhatIdo*

          Thank you for this! I had read that one, but it’s been a while.

          I’m definitely working out how much of what I’m feeling is just normal ‘blahs’ and what is a natural indication that it’s time for a change.

          More and more I’m leaning towards change, but it feels very vulnerable to give up a solid job.

          1. Sloan Kittering*

            The good news about liking your job but thinking it might be a change is that you can start jobsearching with the luxury of knowing you will only take a much better option – financially, or in workplace flexibility, or title or in the daily work. Hopefully all of those together!!

  120. jack*

    Is this rude? I got an email from an internal recruiter about going for an interview next week. The facility is on the other side of the country so I need to plan my travel. The email from the recruiter came in about 12:30pm yesterday, and I replied less than an hour later to see which day(s) they were looking to have me out there. I haven’t heard back yet and I’d like to send a quick email reminder, because I need to take care of my arrangements/practice for the interview with my current boss/etc. Would you send it or just wait? The recruiter is also on the east coast and I’m on central time, so I’m afraid I’ll miss her before I hear anything.

  121. Is it time to go?*

    I’ve been at BEC stage most of the week. I’ve been in my current job for 2 1/2 years and have come to realize my boss will never see me as a rock star (like my previous boss did) no matter what I do. I don’t feel valued and feel very replaceable. I received a “satisfactory” on my annual review last year and don’t expect it to get much better this year. And it makes me sad because I know I’m a hard worker with a great work ethic. It also makes me question my abilities, skills, etc. Almost as if my boss is unintentionally gaslighting me. Most days though I can at least recognize that my boss and I are just not a fit. (I’m an EA, so this matters A LOT.) I’ve actually got an interview for another position within my organization on Monday that I’m really excited about. There are one, maybe two, other candidates and me, so I’ve got a good shot at it. Thanks for the vent and any good thoughts for my interview are definitely appreciated!

    1. JessicaTate*

      Good luck!! Bring your A-game to that interview, and I’m sure someone will be appreciating your rock star skills again soon.

  122. Lumen*

    Thoughts from this week:

    Very rough couple of days to start off. For reasons related to the rise of racist authoritarianism in my country, I was struggling to be here at all. I’m lucky enough to have a boss that I could mention this to and it not be a drama or fallout – just an acknowledgement that it’s extremely difficult to focus but I’m doing my best.

    One of my coworkers kept joking about how she “couldn’t” do any more of the task that both of us have to constantly keep up with. We’re very behind, and we both have lots of other work to do, but her just openly making cracks about how she wasn’t going to do any more was super frustrating for me. Especially when it seems like she was serious, because she stopped working on that shared task and there really is no way I can take it all on by our deadline. Argh.

    Also, my boss apologizes for doing boss things. Previous people in my role trained her to be gunshy and worried about actually managing them, because they took things so personally and gave her the evil eye for it. So she apologizes for asking me to correct my work when it’s wrong (that is her job! it is important that it is done correctly!) or for giving me tasks (that are within the scope of my role) and I just want to grab her by the shoulders and tell her to BOSS UP.

    Anyway. I don’t think I’m looking for advice. Just venting.

    1. Jules the Third*

      internet hugs if you want them. I’m with you on the struggling, for the authoritarian bs…

    2. Kat in VA*

      I feel you on the “boss apologizing for doing boss things”.

      I don’t know what was going on with the person I filled in for in my last position, but it was a short-term contract position and all of my executives (I’m an EA) would apologize – excessively – for having me do the most routine of things.

      Things like: “I’m sorry to bother you, but I have to go to Austin next week on Wednesday. I hate to be a hassle, but can you book me a flight out in the early morning on X date and…”

      I kinda goggled at them, at first. Like, I’m your assistant, it’s MY JOB to set up your travel…and do your expenses…and deconflict your calendar…and pretty much whatever else within professional reason to MAKE YOUR JOB EASIER.

      After a few weeks of this, I told each of them separately and firmly (but nicely) that anything that I could do to free them up to do their jobs was MY JOB, and I was absolutely happy to do these things, and please don’t apologize for having me do my job!

      It finally got through to them and all the apologizing was down to a minimum when I left. I don’t know what it’s like now, but it seemed very odd to me for them to be, as you put it, “gun shy” about literally having me do what I was paid to do!

  123. ZFitz*

    Hello all! I’m pretty baffled today.

    This week, my coworker (same level, on my direct team) traveled to the city where my grandboss is located. Grandboss comes to our smaller office frequently and recently returned from one of those trips.

    Apparently, grandboss pulled this coworker into her office to ask “Is ZFitz doing OK?” He pressed her for details, and she suggested I’m not “taking care of [my]self recently.”

    I have no idea what this means. That comment would suggest to me that it’s hygiene-related? I haven’t changed grooming habits, I shower like a normal person and no one has complained about it to my knowledge. It’s stupid hot and humid where I live, so I guess it’s possible I was gross after being outside one day. We’re also a more casual office than hers, so maybe she thought I should be dressing differently. Largely, I have no idea if there’s a problem. This isn’t feedback I’ve received in the past, or even something that anyone has brought up to me casually, but I’m at a loss as to what else it could mean.

    This is something I need to address with her, right? My coworker would rather me not (he assures me he said he hasn’t seen or noticed anything that would indicate I haven’t been taking care of myself, and that he truly believes that) since it would look like he snitched on her. He’s a great colleague and he had my back here, so I don’t want to put him further into a bad situation, but this really feels like something I need to talk to my managers about.

    Grandboss left for a work trip today overseas, so I probably won’t be able to talk to her today. Which means I have the entire weekend to worry about which of my insecurities she noticed and felt the need to point out that she was concerned to my coworker. Should I push to talk to her while she’s out of the country? Is this an HR situation?

    Overall, I’m also very frustrated with how this was handled. If there was a problem, I don’t understand why it hasn’t been addressed with me directly instead of putting me and my coworker in this horribly awkward, potentially mortifying situation. I’m driving myself crazy trying to figure out if I’ve been doing anything that has inadvertently been making people think that I haven’t been taking care of myself.

    1. will be okay*

      Wait until she comes back, and say “coworker mentioned that you were concerned about how I was doing. I wanted to let you know I’m doing fine, but I’m wondering if there’s something I’m doing that made you concerned?”
      You don’t need to get HR involved right now, or try to contact her when she’s unavailable.
      I can see why you’re frustrated – she should have just asked you directly if anything was wrong.
      About trying not to stress until you get a chance to talk to her: One thing that has helped me is, remember “You think about You a lot more than other people do!”
      If she was extremely concerned about you, she would have come to you. You have no idea what she was referring to, so working your brain to try to come up with an answer will not solve it – the only way you can know is by talking to her. Your coworker, who has presumably much more interaction with you than your boss does, has assured you that you’re not doing anything concerning. Take that as a true fact and don’t continue to try to decode your boss.

    2. Lumen*

      That’s an awful situation grandboss put both you and your coworker in. Ugh.

      I once had a manager ruin my week because they called me in to ask me similar questions about me. Something just felt ‘off’, they said. That time I called in sick recently they thought I was lying, they said (because sudden severe abdominal pain while on a bus scared me, so my voice was shaking when I called in). If they didn’t know better they’d think I was on drugs, they said.

      To this day I have NO. IDEA. what made them think something was up with me. Nothing had changed about my work habits or appearance or behavior. I had actually been doing quite well, except for a sick day. All I could do then and all I can do now is chalk it up to their own issues, probably being projected onto me under the mask of “concern” with a side helping of “abusing authority”.

      Honestly… unless it happens again, I would not do anything about it. It sounds like your coworker had your back and didn’t tell your grandboss anything personal about you, so good on them. It sounds like your grandboss wasn’t concerned enough to actually ask YOU how you’re doing, so… whatever, grandboss. Perhaps they knew they didn’t have anything real to talk about and were just being nosy (who even knows why) so that’s why they snuck in to your coworker instead of addressing you. Let it go; bosses can be super weird and inappropriate.

      If it DOES happen again, I absolutely think you should go to your manager. Not to grandboss. Go to your supervisor and tell them what is going on. Because that goes from ‘weird mistake on grandboss’s part’ to ‘creepy and hostile-seeming’, in my opinion.

    3. TCO*

      How frustrating; I’m sorry. Is there any chance that your grandboss meant “taking care of herself” in more of a mental-health way? Could your grandboss have seen something that made her worry that you were working too hard, burned out, or exhausted?

      I think the advice from the above two comments is great.

    4. Persimmons*

      I would interpret this in multiple ways, depending on grandboss’ personality. It could be a catty b!tch way of implying that you’ve put on weight, or that you’ve grown out highlights and gone lower-maintenance than she accepts, or that your clothes are older/less stylish that she likes. Not enough context here, unfortunately.

  124. Bumblebee*

    I’ve had a nice opportunity come to me, and I’d like to make sure that I don’t mess it up. After a few years working in a junior admin role without a lot of growth or opportunity for higher-level work, a perfect storm of circumstances has combined to let me work on an important project for the organization including most of its day-to-day management. I am also transitioning into a role that, while still very junior, will allow more opportunities for future growth.
    Some challenges:
    1. The project is missing a more senior person that everyone agrees would be really important to have, so I won’t have the level of someone else’s oversight and guidance that would be appropriate for my level and the importance of this project.
    2. The project had a rocky start before I came on and there’s been some tension with other departments I’ll need to coordinate with.
    3. I’ll be working with the same people who have interacted with me exclusively in my previous capacity for years, which is very different from the new role. Between this and the importance of the project, I’ve felt a lot of surprise and skepticism about my role with this project. Given challenge #1, it’s not entirely unfounded, but will still make things harder for me.
    4. Many of the people I need to reach out to don’t know yet I am transitioning, but my new title will still be so junior that my level of responsibility will still be out of sync with the organization’s norms.
    5. This is one of the biggest challenges: I’ve kind of internalized the attitudes and habits the team expected of the admin role. I’m finding it a challenge to speak up in meetings when that would have been frowned upon before. I feel like I need to unlearn these habits/regain my old confidence. What makes this even harder is that I am also keeping my old job title and responsibilities for the next month or so.

    Does anyone have any guidance for how to navigate any of this? I feel a bit overwhelmed, but because we are missing that senior person on the project, I don’t feel like I have anyone I can sit down and discuss all of this with.

  125. nerdgal*

    I would probably sign my name (just the name) just to get it over and done with. Definitely would not put in any money.

  126. Bostonian*

    Do other people check out candidates on LinkedIn with their privacy settings set to “unhidden” (meaning other people can see when you’ve viewed their profile)?

    I recently looked up on LinkedIn someone who my department is interviewing next week and got a LI message from the candidate essentially saying “hi, i see you looked at my profile”, which I thought was weird, but now I’m wondering if I committed some sort of faux pas and should set my settings to hide my name/profile when I look up candidates in the future.

    What do other people do?

    1. katkat*

      I don’t think that’s a faux pas at all. I think the actually strange thing here is that the candidate messaged you just to say “I see you were looking at me”.
      If I was job searching and saw someone from the company looked at my page, I would be excited that someone was interested in me enough to look me up, but I wouldn’t point it out to them. If I really wanted to make a connection, I would maybe want to use it as a tie in to something else. “I was happy to see a notification that you had checked out my page. I have applied for X job, and I’m excited about the opportunity. Please feel free to contact me at xxx-xxx-xxxx if you’d like to speak more!” But I wouldn’t point it out just to point it out

  127. HiddenPixls*

    I’m in IT. I started a new job about six months ago. I didn’t hate the job I left, but I was underpaid. By moving to new job, I got a 60% salary increase and some pretty great benefits, including a signing bonus. The company I work for is great, but there are problems. The client site I’ve been placed at is pretty dysfunctional, and the work I’m doing is far below my skill set. Even though it seemed like a great fit from the job description and interview process, I don’t feel challenged at all. All of the IT roles here are very siloed, where the job I had before was not. I’m basically a glorified desktop support engineer/administrative assistant vs. an infrastructure engineer, and it is very frustrating to wait on another team to do something I’m capable of. I’m afraid my skills are going to disappear if I stay in this role.

    Old job is interested in having me back, but I don’t think they can match salary. If I leave this new position, I have to pay back 50% of my signing bonus if I leave before a year. I’m just not sure what to do. I could pay the bonus back, but then I’m really going to miss the new salary increase. But I feel like each day I stay at the new job, my brain is slowly turning into Jello.

    I don’t really know if I have a question. I know this is something I need to figure out on my own, but UGH!

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      That sucks. Is there perhaps a third option of looking for a job elsewhere? Or are the only two options to stay at the new company or go back to the old company? I definitely wouldn’t go back to the old company, not just because of the pay cut and the signing bonus payback, but also because they know you’re restless and looking elsewhere (same reason you normally shouldn’t accept a counteroffer).

      1. HiddenPixls*

        Well, old company knew I wasn’t exactly looking to leave. It was an opportunity I thought I couldn’t pass up, but I did talk to them to see if they would be able to do anything salary wise to keep me. At the time, they couldn’t. Since leaving, they’ve restructured teams a bit, and I think they’re in a better place. My former manager reached out to me and said he’d like to talk to me and see what they could do. The work was challenging, and I really enjoyed my team. In this case, it really was all about the money. I do see what you mean, though.

        1. Anonymous Educator*

          Well, if you really believe they would have no hard feelings about it (even subconsciously) and you can live off that pay cut (i.e., pay your bills, save a little bit, have some fun and/or donate), I would probably go back to the old job if you couldn’t find a new one.

          Doing unstimulating work that won’t lead anywhere career-wise in the long-term is probably a bad place to stay.

        2. Anonymous Educator*

          That said, you should definitely explore the third option of finding another job completely, especially if you’d been at old job for a while. You don’t look like a job hopper if you do one short stint at one place.
          “Why are you leaving [current job]?”
          “I really liked their compensation package and X, Y, and Z about the company, but the work turned out to be more entry-level than I’d understood it to be, and I’m really looking for both compensation and professionally challenging work.”

    2. Persimmons*

      I’d stay there at least a year (probably two), keep my skills fresh on the side with projects on GitHub/similar, and look for a new company that checks all my list items. Having a job with decent pay and responsibilities firmly within your skill set is an ideal position to be in when casually looking for a reach job.

      1. Anonymous Educator*

        Yes, and in the meantime live as if you didn’t have the bump in pay and put that pay increase aside as savings.

  128. Ann*

    1) For those of you are active on sites with usernames, what do you associate with your real name? I’m thinking about publishing some knitting patterns (nothing fancy, just on Ravelry for the people who asked for them) and I’m wondering whether I should sell them under my real (full) name or come up with a cutesy shop name. I’m not particularly anonymous on Ravelry, since most of my interactions are with a local group, so it’s pretty obvious where I am and what my name is (though obviously I’m not giving out my home address or phone number either). However, doing this would also link my real name to my Reddit account, since I post knitting things there as well. And while I haven’t done anything I’m ashamed of on Reddit (all I do is talk about knitting/quilting/cat’s/etc), it makes me a little more iffy since it brings up the possibility of doxxing, if I piss the wrong person off.

    2) is anybody here in embedded software? I’m currently doing something in the auto industry and while I like my current job, I’m frustrated by elements of it. The main thing is it feels like advancement is limited – if you want to stay as an engineer, you plateau out, both in terms of salary and interesting projects. This is my first job post-college so there’s been a lot of me to learn, but it feels like I’d be working on the same thing over and over again and not learning anything new by the 5 year mark here, which is disappointing. The benefits also aren’t fantastic and while my pay is okay now, the yearly raise & vacation time increase isn’t great, so I’d fall behind on that front. I’m also not thrilled with the location (Midwest) since I grew up in the PNW and miss mountains like crazy.

    Things I’m wondering – are there any specific job boards for this sort of field? I can search on the large aggregate boards, but so many software jobs want full stack or something like that. How important is Linked In or an active GitHub page? (Especially it most of the git hub projects are iOS development or other higher level stuff) Does anybody have experience in aerospace? If I’m looking for embedded jobs, there’s a lot at Boeing, Lockheed, etc but I’ve also heard that they’re soul sucking places to work.

    I want to stay at my current job for a few years longer, but I’m curious what sort of skills I should be developing to get my next job. This was my first job out of college and I’m pretty sure they just hired me because of good school + FSAE experience, which won’t help me for my next job.

    1. LCL*

      Don’t link with your real name on Reddit. You never know when someone will take offense to something innocuous. Or someone will obsess on you when the silicon chip inside their head gets switched to overload.

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      For those of you are active on sites with usernames, what do you associate with your real name?

      I think a good rule of thumb for associating things with your real name is “What would my reaction be to co-workers, friends, and family finding out about this username and what this username has posted?”

      2. Anonymous Educator*

        I still don’t think you post horrible things under an anonymous or pseudonymous username, but sometimes being anonymous-ish isn’t about being able to say horrible things… just things you wouldn’t necessarily want your co-workers and friends and family to hear.

    3. Temperance*

      Come up with a shop name. You don’t want your real name linked with your Reddit account. Even if you’re a pretty chill Redditor, you never know when someone will be offended and go on the attack.

      1. LCL*

        Yes. I wouldn’t be ashamed if any of my family or friends saw what I posted on Reddit. Though they may ask me why I care so much about municipal politics. But I don’t want to be found IRL by people who don’t know me.

      2. Ann*

        That seems to be the consensus, good to know!

        Now for the hard part of coming up with a shop name…

        1. Elspeth McGillicuddy*

          My pen name, picked out years ago though I haven’t written anything, is my great-great-great-great-grandmother’s name. I love the way it sounds. My mother, who has written a few books, chose a different foremother’s name.

          Any ancestors with cool names you could co-opt?

    4. LilySparrow*

      I publish under my real name, so I do Twitter, Instagram, and Pinterest under my real name as well as LI and FB. (Not that I’m super-active on all of them, but the accounts exist.)

      For random forum-ing, I use a couple of different usernames, depending on when I created the profile.

      If you’re selling product and you have an existing network in the same field under your real name, it makes sense to leverage that network/reputation.

      Can you change your Reddit handle or delete that account and start a new one? If that’s the only platform that you’re concerned about, it seems easy enough to break the link from that direction. I doubt “posting knitting stuff” alone is going to be traceable back to you.

    5. Embedded software jobs*

      There are some aerospace startups in San Francisco – Capella Space, Planet, Spire, Loft Orbital. I’m not sure which have embedded but I know at least some do. There’s mountains pretty close to SF!

  129. LPBB*

    I need to create a federal resume just in case the agency I am working at is ever able to hire again. Does anyone have any recommendations of books, websites, webinars, etc to help me learn how to make a good one?

    1. Charlie Bradbury's Girlfriend*

      My friend is applying to federal jobs and used this:
      https://www.usajobs.gov/Help/faq/application/documents/resume/what-to-include/
      Is this what you’re looking for? She said this resource was helpful as someone who has never written a federal resume before, but neither of us have any industry knowledge of what makes a federal resume “good.” She also complained that USA Jobs stripped her formatting and font, so her resume was “ugly, but functional.”
      Good luck!

    2. Billybob*

      From my experience being a civilian in the military, you can throw all your private industry standards concerning length/brevity out the window. You first want to beat the software that searches for keywords before it ever makes it to HR. So make sure to put a lot of the wording that is used in the job description into your descriptions about your past experience. Not word-for-word, of course, but keep it close. Veteran status and any current (or eligibility) for security clearances are very important.

  130. The Elephant in the Room*

    I suffer from anxiety and depression, and have unfortunately been hit like a truck with this recently. I should have recognized the signs, but I didn’t, and now here I am. I had to back out of something major because of this. It was something voluntary I had every right to back out of, and so far I’ve just said that I’d like to focus my energy on other things. But people are curious, and being an anxious person makes me feel their curiosity like it’s pressing on the back of my head. To top it all off, I’m the yes person usually, which is probably why this was one too many things, which gave me the panic attack. I would love it if I could say I’m focusing on my mental health, but the stigma of that is so powerful – like there’s something so wrong with me. And once I am more stable if I choose to do more at that time, people will be judgmental about why I couldn’t do it before. If I leave off the mental and just say health, then I need to think of a way to respond when people ask what’s wrong.

    The one person I think I need to be completely honest with is my boss, but even the idea of that conversation is making me too anxious right now. So far I’ve said I’m going through something personal and we can talk about it later. I don’t even know if I’m looking for a response. I’m just so drained and feeling like a failure right now. Anxiety sucks.

    1. katkat*

      First off, good job recognizing that you were unable to do the major thing and then being brave enough to back out. It might sound wrong to say backing out of something was brave, but actually it takes a lot of strength and bravery to admit, “I can’t do this right now” and back out, instead of dragging along acting like it’ll all get done and then just failing to deliver in the end.

      Maybe you can tell your coworkers something like, “I realized I was taking on too many things, and I want to make sure that I’m focusing on the right projects and putting my all into those.”

      I’m sorry you’re feeling like this right now. Know you’re not the only one, and know that things change. Good luck my friend

      1. The Elephant in the Room*

        Thank you for this – I needed to hear it. It’s hard to feel brave right now, but these words are something that can help me as I work on coping.

    2. Grace Less*

      Good for you for taking care of yourself. I agree – the stigma around mental health is very powerful. If your colleagues genuinely care about you, they’ll be glad to know that you’re taking care of yourself, and not press for details. If they’re asking only out of politeness, they’re just checking a box mentally and won’t ask for details. And if they’re not asking from genuine concern or politeness, then they’re not people who deserve any concern from you anyway. :)

  131. MsChanandlerBong*

    What is your take on this, from a communication and management perspective?

    “We should not give critical feedback along with positive feedback, as doing so is akin to giving no feedback at all.”

    I was always taught to offer some positive feedback (if appropriate) along with critical feedback to give the employee a well-rounded picture of his or her performance. Something like, “You did X well. Going forward, please do Y for this type of project.” My gut feeling is that if we do nothing but send critical messages, morale will decline. Plus, I don’t think people will get a true picture of their performance if they only receive critical messages. In some cases, an employee has done 9.5 out of 10 things correctly, so it doesn’t make sense to me to send a message that only focuses on the 0.5 when I could tell her she did a good job overall and just needs to be careful about X going forward.

    1. MechanicalPencil*

      Yeahhh, you need to bolster a feeling of positivity with some of the critical so that morale doesn’t decline. If you only hear negative, it’s easy to take that to heart and feel like you never do anything good.

    2. Llama Wrangler*

      FWIW, in a few contexts where I’ve been working cross-culturally, I’ve been told this is culturally specific (I’m American). I had both Israeli and British staff members tell me they only wanted to hear the critical feedback. This could very well be individual preference, but in both cases THEY framed it as a cultural difference (“Americans are too nice and not direct enough”).

    3. LCL*

      There is a STRONG divide of opinions on this. I agree with you. Others feel just as strongly that giving praise in these circumstances is patronizing, condescending, etc. I’m not going to stop what I’m doing, I think the good parts should be recognized.

    4. Susan K*

      It’s kind of hard to tell what, exactly, is meant by this. If they are saying that managers should never give positive feedback, only criticism, then yeah, that’s terrible. Certainly, in something like a performance review or project critique, it’s important to discuss both the good and the bad, not just for morale but also so the employee knows what to continue doing well.

      Is it possible that they are referring to the “compliment sandwich” technique, where you “sandwich” negative feedback between two compliments? If so, I think that’s actually a valid point. It’s kind of insulting — do you think I’m so sensitive that I can’t handle constructive criticism without diluting it with compliments? If there’s a specific performance problem that needs to be addressed, it’s better just to address it directly.

    5. AdAgencyChick*

      I do not believe in the compliment sandwich. I think it lessens the ability of the hearer to grasp that what they’re doing wrong is serious enough that it needs to be changed.

      I do, however, think you can say after you give negative feedback, “I know you’re capable of changing this and I want to see you succeed at it.” This is not the same as the compliment sandwich (putting a piece of negative feedback in between two pieces of unrelated positive feedback).

      And of course one should not be giving negative feedback all the time; but if an employee is 90% awesome and 10% needs improvement, it’s not that every conversation in which negative feedback should be 9 positive points and one negative one. It’s that, overall, you shouldn’t ONLY be having conversations with the employee about the 10% of her work that needs improvement.

    6. Someone else*

      There are a bunch of studies that suggest the “sandwich” method, ie you’re giving positive feedback ONLY to cushion the blow of the negative feedback, that is counterproductive. It undermines the seriousness of the negative feedback. So if the compliment is only there for that, don’t do it. However if you’re giving a whole review, then there’s no need to omit the positive if there’s also negative. If the point of the discussion is to go over someone’s performance on the whole then you should be giving them the whole picture. You do A well. B needs improvement. That’s fine. But if you’re reaching for something positive to couple with the negative, that’s not a good idea.

  132. Photographers?*

    Any professional or hobby photographers here? What online resources are good for building up beginner artistic skills and photo editing, with the hopes of turning hobby into business?

    1. SoCalHR*

      There are tons of youtube videos and blogs out there – If you’re interested in doing weddings, once you get some decent skills down, see if you can “second shoot” for someone who has an established business. It really helps you get a feel for weddings, how intense they can be, but with less pressure since you’re not the ONLY person responsible for getting the shot.

    2. JustaCPA*

      Creative Live has great all around programming
      If you’re interested in weddings, Susan Striplings The Wedding School cant be beat/ Jerry Ghionis ICE society is also decent
      For portraits, Sue Bryce Education and/or IPS masterminds

      For landscape, fine art, journalism etc, sorry can’t help!

  133. Higher Education Ted*

    I don’t know if I’ve ever been happier for a Friday. This week I have had 3 interviews and 2 last week. I am desperately hoping one of these turns into a new job because Current Job is not so slowly becoming worse. I have a second round interview in 2 weeks where I will give a presentation about how my industry can better reach our customers. As I’m thinking about it I just keep feeling like I don’t know enough/have enough experience even though I have 5 years of experience and the job description only required 2. Does anyone have any advice on getting over feeling like an imposter at/about work? Or is there anybody that just wants to commiserate?

    1. The Elephant in the Room*

      I commiserate as I feel like an imposter daily. I also say that if they didn’t think you had enough experience you wouldn’t have gotten this far in the process. Based on what they’ve seen, they want to learn more about you. No one is 100% perfect match for any job.

  134. Melody Pond*

    At what point is it okay to admit to your supervisor that you’re getting bored with your job?

    I work in a large-ish healthcare organization, and I’ve been in my job for exactly one year, this week. I’m starting to get to the point where I feel like I’ve learned mostly everything there is to learn in this job, and there are occasionally interesting challenges that pop up, but mostly it’s daily doldrums type work – a lot of repetitive data entry and manual processes. I’ve already maximized most of the process improvements that can be easily implemented.

    There’s another department in my organization that I’m really, really interested in, that would be a significant step up in terms of pay and cognitive challenge. That’s a big part of the reason I took my current job – knowing that they like to promote from within, and that it’d be feasible to move into this other department eventually. I’d originally envisioned hanging out in my current job for maybe 2 years before trying to make that move, but I’m getting pretty bored, 1 year in!

    I think after an appropriate amount of time in my current job, it’d be reasonably safe to tell my supervisor of my interests in this other department, but I don’t think 1 year is a long enough time. But, the boredom issue still stands. Even without mentioning my interest in the other department, should I talk to my supervisor at some point about getting bored in my current job, even though I’m only one year in?

    Any advice appreciated! Especially from other supervisors, and what they’d want to hear from their employees in a similar situation.

  135. Anon anony*

    Has anyone left a job because the environment was too cliquey? I don’t like my current job because even after a year, I feel like I just started. I try my best to be nice and friendly, yet they all go out to lunch with each other and I’m never invited. I went with once and it was awkward. I’m quiet, but I’m trying to be more outgoing.

    I mean, how much effort do you have to put in? I’ve tried and it seems like it’s just a bad fit? I don’t know what to do.

    1. HerNameWasLola*

      Do you like the work otherwise? Do you have to work as a team often? I worked with a group like that. The first few months I tried getting to know them but they weren’t trying to get to know me. Once I realized this, I told myself that it wasn’t worth the effort. Dealing with them as simply coworkers and removing any expectation of social chit chat helped me day to day. I would still be polite and professional – just not overly social. The other saving grace was that I didn’t have to rely on them for my work and I kind of liked what I did.
      Sometimes cliquey groups don’t even realize how excluded they make others feel. If your gut is telling you they are generally a friendly bunch, you may want to let them know you would be up for lunch again. I wouldn’t worry about being quiet, most people will find you to be a great listener!
      If they seem like the group I had to deal with and your job requires you have a better relationship than you currently have with the group or this is something that you need to feel fulfilled in your job, could you possible move to another job within the company?

      1. Anon anony*

        It’s just annoying because they’re close with one another, so I feel like there’s something wrong with me. They’ve started talking to me a little bit more, but I still feel weird.

        1. Jennifer*

          My so called team actively shuns me, so hey, could be worse….
          Honestly, I just ignore them like they ignore me at this point. It doesn’t really work to try to force others to like you (makes things worse), and if they don’t, they don’t. They have a right not to. They are not forced to like you because you are with them all day long. Just…don’t bother with them. Find friends elsewhere.

    2. Buddythefox*

      Unfortunately, this was part of the reason I left my most recent previous job. There was a sort of “inner” group that I just didn’t click with, and it really made it feel like I could never settle in properly. Now at my current job, the environment is very intentionally inclusive which is such a change and makes it a lot more pleasant! There were a couple other more work-related issues at my previous job that ultimately made me want to leave … but the social environment was definitely a part of it. Sorry you’re having a rough time. I felt like it sucked to have to try to put in social effort at work when I really needed to be focusing on work-related effort!

  136. Anonymosity*

    I’m job-hunting with a learning disability (severe dyscalculia), which makes it very difficult to impossible for me to do certain mathematical tasks, including many spreadsheet functions, without accommodation. Hidden disabilities are tough since people think you’re faking, and learning disabilities are poorly understood (“But you’re so smart!”).

    Until recently, I had never disclosed it, but a department merger at my last workplace forced me to do so when I was assigned work I couldn’t do. I was unable to handle the demands of the new job, as it had become more numbers-based. I struggled with the transition and they let me go.

    Since then, I’ve been open about my dyscalculia in cover letters and that I can do many things with accommodation like procedural documents, and even write them myself. But although I have applied to many jobs I could totally do with or without a little help, all I’m getting are crickets, or at best, a cursory interview and then crickets. I’m afraid if I don’t say something, then when a boss gives me a task I can’t complete, I’ll just get dinged as uncooperative and get fired again. But I fear I’m putting them off by telling them.

    I’m also trying to make a lateral move away from admin work, but I can’t get any more training, even online, to make up the skills I lack until I have an income. (I can’t work nights or weekends and have poor cash handling skills, so retail/food is out, and I wouldn’t last a day at a call center.) I suspect some companies see my former employer, who pays very well for the area, on my resume and think “Oh, she’s not going to stay,” and never call me.

    Should I say anything about my LD? If so, what? And how do I address it in an interview? I feel like I’ve been fairly articulate about it, but maybe I’m actually not.

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      Since then, I’ve been open about my dyscalculia in cover letters

      I don’t think your cover letter is where you should give people reasons to not hire you. I wouldn’t mention it until the interview, when you find out more about the specifics of the job. I mean, I assume you’re not applying for anything that’s obviously numbers-related, so it’s not a bait-and-switch to let them meet you and fall in work-related-love with you and *then* say “oh, BTW, here’s something you need to know.”

      I suspect some companies see my former employer, who pays very well for the area, on my resume and think “Oh, she’s not going to stay,” and never call me.

      Why would they think that? If you were still working there, sure, but you’re not there any more.

      1. Xarcady*

        I agree. The time to bring this up is after they have offered the job and you have accepted it. Then you can mention the accommodations you might need.

        Also, if you have worked for several years and not had a problem before, and you are applying for the same types of job now, it might not even be a problem. It looks like the new tasks at your last job were more mathematical in nature than your normal tasks and that’s what caused the problem.

        1. Anonymosity*

          @Xarcady Unfortunately, the jobs are becoming more and more consolidated, to the point where I’m seeing ads like:
          Administrative Assistant
          -Answers phone and greets guests (clearly a rebranded front desk job)
          Then you have stuff like:
          -Filing
          -Keeping the kitchen clean
          -Orders office supplies
          –Processes payroll/mileage/invoices/reconciles AP and AR (or cash drawer-payments)

          Almost everything here is small companies who want one person to do all their administrative / office tasks. The rest are giant healthcare organizations who are now requiring 1-2 years previous healthcare experience because they don’t want to train on HIPAA. Their pay is ridiculously low even for here.

          I need to get out of here, but the admin jobs in the bigger cities don’t pay much more than the ones in my city. The only ones that do are executive admin or academic positions that deal heavily with budget spreadsheets, etc., which is what pushed me out of my last job.

          I had this exact problem in 2012 and then I found the last job. I never thought they would change it that drastically. Now I’m right back where I started seven years ago. Only now it’s worse. :(

          1. Jennifer*

            Oh, yeah, I have this problem too. Every admin job wants you to be the finances/payroll person and that rules me out. And a party planner and travel agent too. All of that involves money.

            1. Kat in VA*

              I’m an EA, and I see event planning and travel as definitely being within my purview. But payroll and AR/AP? That’s a finance assistant position. I understand smaller offices have someone who handles all of that, but they’re usually called “Office Manager” or “Office Coordinator” and their pay reflects the scope of what they’re doing, i.e., higher than a standard Admin. I definitely wouldn’t want to be responsible for payroll or AP/AR or anything to do with money other than expenses for travel and the like!

      2. Anonymosity*

        No, I’m not knowingly seeking numbers-related jobs, which unfortunately cuts WAY down on the amount of jobs I can apply to. But I’ve already had the experience of finding this out in interviews because many employers are shite at writing job descriptions. If I get a phone screen, I ask about it then, so I can self-select out if they reveal they want someone to process payroll in addition to other admin tasks. You make a good point, though; I didn’t think about it that way.

        As for the other, I think they may believe I’m looking for more money than they’re willing to pay.

      3. Photographers?*

        I agree. I would pass on your resume, but if you got an interview you could make a solid case in person.

        Re cash-handling— isn’t most retail swiping cards these days? Honest question. Perhaps look into something like caregiving or Rover or Uber to make ends meet.

        1. Anonymosity*

          It’s in the cover letter, not the resume. But I’ll take it out.

          I hope the same thing doesn’t happen in the interview, but I think it does. People just don’t believe this is real. They think you’re trying to get out of doing certain tasks, or they say “Yeah yeah, I get it,” and then get mad at you when they give you that task anyway and you can’t do it. I’ve dealt with bullshit surrounding this my entire life, and I am just so effing tired of it. I wish people weren’t so goddamn ignorant about it.

          1. Photographers?*

            It sounds like you may want to rethink fields, especially if you are constantly hitting this wall. Think about it like someone who has an issue where they can’t sit all day: they aren’t suited to most office jobs. Is it fair? No. But you may find more happiness and success if you stop trying to fit these jobs into your framework, and switch frameworks altogether. It could be life-changing. Best of luck to you.

            1. Rusty Shackelford*

              And I wonder if your length of unemployment would qualify you for some type of free training. I know it would in my state (which is not the same as yours, granted).

              1. Anonymosity*

                Nope. The only thing I’d be eligible for is Vocational Rehabilitation, and there is an income threshold. I ran face-first into that when they sent me back to school in 2012 and then I got a really good job in 2013. It booted me right out of the program, and I cannot afford to go back to college, not ever. VR only wants you to be working; they don’t care what you’re doing, and they don’t pay living expenses, so if I had a job at all while going to school, it would have had to be a really crap one.

                I couldn’t turn down a $16.00 an hour job doing exactly what I was trying to do for an $8.00 an hour one just to stay in a school program. Unfortunately, Exjob’s tuition assistance wasn’t enough to continue in school without borrowing money, and I owe so much already that it was a no-go. It was a Scylla/Charybdis situation of epic proportions.

            2. Anonymosity*

              Yeah, that’s what I’m doing, as I said. “I’m also trying to make a lateral move away from admin work, but I can’t get any more training, even online, to make up the skills I lack until I have an income.“

    2. Persimmons*

      Can you do telecommuting jobs, like on FlexJobs?

      What is the online training that you want to take?

    3. Anonymosity*

      Welp, I applied for a couple of jobs, including a really good one in another city, without using that in the cover, so we’ll see. I doubt it will make any difference but thanks for your advice, everyone.

  137. Anon.*

    I’ve been a programmer for over 25 years. My employer has decided to switch to a new standardized language and design pattern over the next few years. I don’t want to learn yet another language. I think I’m done…planning on a new career.

  138. job hunting*

    Seeking advice in reference checks. My company has a strict rule against giving references. In management training they literally say it’s a fireable offense. After 5 years of working here, I’m looking to change jobs – but I really don’t have any good references to offer. Maybe one or two, but they’re from volunteer work and aren’t people who managed me.

    Would it be weird to say at the asking for references stage like, my company forbids references, but can I give you a copy of my latest performance review so you can have an idea of how I’m perceived?

    Thanks for any help, ideas, or advice!

    1. Friday*

      I used to work for a company like that, and got around it by using managers who’d already moved on as references. Do you have anyone like that? My previous managers were happy to be my references once they were no longer working there, and I’m doing the same for former direct reports.

      Usually companies won’t expect to contact your current company/current boss for a reference anyway though because that will reveal your job search.

  139. DataQueen*

    Would it ever be appropriate to give someone advice on an element of their personality when it could effect their growth? There’s an admin in my department with a laugh that is so cringe worthy… it’s nervous and loud and high pitched and echos throughout the building. It’s really *THAT* bad, i’m not making it up. Other people hate it too… some are more patient than others, but I hate going to her for anything because I hear it. In general, she’s awkward and has weird habits (like instead of emailing you, she comes and stands in the doorway and stares until you happen to notice her, asks a question that could have been emailed so easily (“what size font do you want the agenda in?”) and then leaves – we’re not an unresponsive team so it’s not like she has to do that instead of emailing. But the laugh…. when, if ever, would it be okay to tell her to be conscious of it? I’m not her boss, but significantly senior. She’s brand new to the workforce, college grad. People actively don’t like speaking with her because of this. Would it be different than if she was saying “like” or “um” too much? Or if she spoke too loudly? (I got spoken too excessively for the volume of my voice when i first started working… i finally negotiated a closed office out of it lol). Or if i was her boss, would it be okay? Or am i just awful?

    1. Persephoneunderground*

      Personally, I wonder if it’s a nervous laugh thing if she does it a lot. I do that a bit and wouldn’t have taken it badly if a friendly co-worker mentioned it to me in a nice way. It took me a while to realize I was doing it on my own. So- don’t insult her actual laugh, but it might be fine to let her know as a friendly comment that it’s louder than she might think, and if it’s like me and she’s doing it as a nervous-fill-the-silence or punctuation thing that she might not realize it comes across oddly.

    2. Tardigrade*

      I think you could focus on how loud the laugh is, especially in the moment with something about how people are trying to concentrate.

      I also think you could deal with the weird in-person interruptions in the moment too. “Oh hey, we usually email questions to each other so we don’t have to break concentration. I promise we will answer. [insert smile here]”

    3. Delphine*

      A laugh is the kind of thing you don’t have too much control over. You can talk to her about the volume, I think, but the pitch and the sound of it in general? She likely can’t change that.

  140. anon for this one*

    I’ve got an in-person interview coming up in an adjacent but different industry (think teapot advocacy to teapot manufacturing). I’m happy at my current job but this one would be a significant pay increase and a chance to try something new. I’m really concerned with the fit – I get the idea from Glassdoor that this is a pretty stodgy, traditional work environment, whereas my current job is very flexible with time/schedules, which is valuable to me. I’m trying to figure out how I can ask if this is a job that requires butts in seats from 8-5 every day, or if it’s more if you get your work done, leaving at 4 occasionally is OK, without it looking like I’m trying to find a way to get out of work.

    1. Sue Donym*

      I’m not sure if I can help you with this, but once I was doing a phone screen with a company recruiter, she asked if I was okay with the commute, and I said yes, assuming there’s a work from home policy (and I had assumed this since it was a tech start-up type place). Unfortunately she then told me that their philosophy is for people to be at their desks every day, so no scheduled WFH unless it’s a one-off type thing. That was a dealbreaker for that particular job – less about the no-WFH and more about the butts in seats philosophy.

      So you can blunder into it like I did, but I’m not sure how you would go about it more diplomatically. If none of the reviews on Glassdoor mentions a WFH policy or “good work life balance” or flexible schedules, you should probably assume that standard hours in the office is the norm. You might be able to ask about typical work schedules and get more information, but if the recruiter is not very chatty you might just get a boilerplate answer rather than a nuanced conversation about flexible scheduling.

  141. Persephoneunderground*

    So, I’ve heard that HR can be a women’s ghetto. That is, underpaid and undervalued pink-collar work, apparently due to how and in what time period the field emerged, according to my mother who usually is a good source for work advice and started her career in the mid-70s. I think that’s awful of course and it shouldn’t be that way, so this is in no way meant to disparage the field itself.

    So- my best friend works in HR (and is a woman), and is currently job searching because of cuts to her department (old manager left and her team just got added to another department’s already overworked manager’s plate, it’s bad), though she’s not in danger of a layoff herself, just overloaded. I obviously won’t insult her by saying she should change out of the pink ghetto, but I want to help her out. How can she find out if a new company she’s looking at values their HR versus seeing it as overhead? It feels to me like HR being seen as less-than might have set up this problem. Her new manager doesn’t even have enough base knowledge to make decisions about the department, and no time to learn it (specifically, they’ve added the training team to the responsibilities of a busy manager who previously only managed recruiters and still is also in charge of the recruiters). This is at a pretty large company, for context.

    She has an industry certification that I can’t remember and special skills in administering training in particular, so she’s good at what she does, and she should be able to command a good salary, but she’s having a slow job search and a hard time at the current place. Anyone in HR have insight into what she can do or how I can help? Mostly I’m just commisserating because that seems to be what she needs but I would love to have some real insight to help her find somewhere better. We’re in the DC metro area if that makes any difference.

    Thanks so much!

    1. saffytaffy*

      Hey, I was just going to leave a message for you! Hi! Things were bone-quiet until the end of Wednesday, and then Banana just started saying hi as we passed each other’s desks. I smiled. I wanted to let her know that I acknowledge her worth as a human being, I just… well, you get it. I just need her to leave me alone. Thursday and today have also been good. Polite smiles, one-word acknowledgements, and no yammering. I’m interested to see if this keeps up for more than a week or two, though, because I figure like repressing a tic, that energy has to go somewhere eventually.

      1. NotaPirate*

        That’s fantastic! That’s so much better. Maybe she was able to get some help over the weekend with the anxiety. Hopefully she’s sending all that energy into working out or a hobby instead.

  143. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

    My boss has been sick all week, and is very much the type to come to work no matter what. He came to work with what turned out to be pneumonia and bronchitis over the winter.

    This time, it turned out to be STREP THROAT. He has been looking and sounding horrible all week, and to make matters worse we’re currently sharing an office because of a renovation. When he told me his diagnosis this morning I immediately started packing up to work from a conference room, and he acted all insulted and tried to tell me I wouldn’t get it because he “didn’t cough on [me]”. I reminded him that he’s been here all week touching doorknobs and light switches and that’s how you get other people sick.

    God help him if I get strep throat. I’m leaving Sunday for a week, half of which is work and the other half is vacation to be a bridesmaid in my sister’s wedding. I can’t imagine the hell I’ll have to go through if I have strep throat during a cross country flight :(

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      If it makes you feel better, my husband and kid and I have all had strep throat at multiple points in the last 20 years, but we’ve never passed it around within the household. And you’ll be on the lookout, which means you can pop into a walk-in clinic at the first sign of a sore throat. I think it’s gonna be okay.

      1. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

        That does make me feel a bit better. Although I’m kind of a hypochondriac so my throat has been hurting all day since I learned about my boss having it – I’m 99% sure it’s not strep throat, but we’ll see…

        1. Friday*

          That sounds like when one of my kids recently had the head lice and I had what I’m dubbing “psychological lice.” Not one real bug atop my head but good lord I could not stop itching. Still am just thinking about it.

          Here’s hoping you don’t get the real strep throat! And good on you for reacting how you did to your boss’ news; he needs to learn that it’s not OK what he’s doing.

      2. Thlayli*

        Strep throat isn’t really that contagious, so you’re probably fine.

        But yes – he is being an A-hole.

    2. Corky's Wife Bonnie*

      Wash your hands A LOT!!! Use a napkin or tissue for the commonly touched items. Up your vitamin C intake too. Hope you don’t catch the strep!

    3. Courageous cat*

      If it’s any consolation, any time I’ve ever gotten strep, as soon as I get my first day’s antibiotics down I start feeling exponentially better from there. Just get it treated as early as possible if it DOES happen, but hopefully/likely it won’t!

  144. Environmental Compliance*

    1. Sent out a test knit call. Got someone who didn’t seem to understand that test knitting is meant to correct small pattern errors (like formatting, or accidental erasures), and sent a rather snarky message to me that she just doesn’t have time to fix my pattern. Well, okay, that’s fine, but I don’t quite get why you’d volunteer for this when I very clearly describe what the requirements are and what the expectations are, you really don’t need to get snarky with me. I have several other testers that have no problems and are working really quickly – like, the most anyone’s brought up is “hey can we get a stitch count on this particular row?” or “I’d recommend putting this section before this other section”, there’s been no problems with actual pattern directions, and the person didn’t bring up any issues before the Snark Email. Test knitting is really important for my pattern releases, and I structure them like any other test, and try to have the pattern as complete & tech edited as humanly possible, but sometimes I feel like it’s herding slippery cats.

    2. Hubs has an interview today, and we’re really hoping that it goes well. Hubs’ boss told him before he left for Military that he wouldn’t get a raise because he already makes more than Other Person In Different Type of Position and it’s not fair….but now Hubs went back since Military didn’t work out and his boss told him he needs to pick up Tasks A-E that Other Person is clearly supposed to be in charge of. Hubs is not very impressed, especially since Other Person is in a Different Department entirely.

    3. So in an awkward turn of events, there’s a coworker that started just before me that everyone here is a little dismissive? of. He’s socially awkward, to be sure. He’s a little weird. He does decent work. But everyone here is similar to the letter that was sent earlier this week – Tim “doesn’t count” or etc. Tim and I had a conference call (our work overlaps a decent amount) with parent company earlier this week, and our phones are kinda cruddy, they’re very quiet, so whoever’s desk we use, we usually switch seats for our relevant portions. This past week’s call we used his desk. As I was sitting there, staring into space, I noticed that he has a list on his desk of “how to get people to like you”. It made me a little sad, tbh, because people *do* pick on/at him for being weird, and it seems like he’s aware of that, but some people aren’t good socially. His position doesn’t really require good social interaction to be honest. He’s a nice guy, he’s not a jerk, he’s just a little strange. So now I feel the need to defend him a little, but so far I’ve stuck with deflecting the conversation and just staying out of it, or deflecting it to ‘well he is a nice guy, and I work with him pretty well’ and then changing the subject.

    4. Our finance dept has a person who is in charge of paying our monthly bills. It is now the multipleth time in a row (third since I’ve been here) that they haven’t paid our internet company for a couple months and now our internet is shut off for a few hours. Most of my compliance reporting is online, plus, I can’t get to my email when the internet is pbbbt. No idea how to bring it up to the Boss in a tactful but still hey, this is getting ridiculous manner. We haven’t gotten close to being out of compliance because I do all my reporting way early, but it’s a ridiculous disruption to workflow, especially when the reason is that our finance person responsible for *paying our bills* consistently isn’t doing their job.

    1. Princess Scrivener*

      Your #3 affected me, as did the letter to AAM earlier this week. We have an adult son with autism, and if he had an office job, he would also be socially awkward, comment inappropriately, and pretty much annoy others in general. As a mom, my heart breaks for those non-neurotypical adults who are trying to make a way in the working world with the rest of us. In our situation, we’ve tried to ensure his work team understands his quirks (and strengths). There are still some embarrassing–and yep, some funny–stories from his manager, but we pray for understanding and acceptance, and for his continued maturity.

      1. Environmental Compliance*

        I think Tim is warming up to the office, and I hope the office will keep warming up to him. He does come talk to me more than some of the rest, but then again I usually end up being the office therapist/mediator and already have been told by a couple people here that I’m real easy to talk to. Hopefully we all continue to slowly mesh together as a team, and this is just a little bit of too-much-new-at-once growing pains.

    2. Thlayli*

      Poor Tim. Some people find social skills hard. Continue treating him like a regular person – that’s the main thing. I’m concerned when you say people “pick on him”. Like as in bullying? To his face? That’s really not cool and you should report that. If they are talking about him behind his back then continuing to point out that hes a nice guy, is the best thing you can do.

      I’ve never understood how people pick on others for having poor social skills. Isnt picking on people stronger evidence of bad social skills than being a bit awkward?

      1. Environmental Compliance*

        Never to his face, and it’s not overt bullying, it’s the behind the back type bull crap. I’ve had a problem with his work affecting mine – but I walked over 10 feet and asked him about it. Turns out no one had told him about x step in the process, and within a couple days it was fixed and good to go, so it really wasn’t a real problem in my mind. Does he sometimes just pop in, say something slightly off kilter, and run away? Well, yeah, but that’s okay, he’s just trying to feel out the culture here and maybe just is shy. I dunno, but he’s not harming anything, he’s a sweet guy, so why make a thing of it, you know? Much rather work with him than the finance person who has cost the company $2 million in late fees over the past year!

        Hopefully everyone steps off of this and they get used to having new people, because I’m not interested in the behind the back nonsense.

        1. London Calling*

          *Much rather work with him than the finance person who has cost the company $2 million in late fees over the past year! *

          This AP person is facepalming. TWO MILLION??

          1. Environmental Compliance*

            Yeah, got told that recently from the person who does the checking on overall stats after they got pissed about the internet cutting off constantly. I about choked on my water.

            1. London Calling*

              I get all apologetic and twitchy if I have to ask my manager for an emergency payment that costs about £ 5. Two million would have me hiding out of sheer shame and contemplating another lien of woek altogether.

              1. Environmental Compliance*

                I recently had to submit a $500 state fee for a screw up in compliance that happened a few months before I started, and I felt icky about it. I think two mil would have me changing my identity to start over on the opposite coast. Or a different country.

    3. CurrentlyLooking*

      4. Say to Boss “Hey this is getting ridiculous.” Because it is ridiculous.

      1. I am assuming your pattern testers are not like paid employees. They are doing it because they like knitting, trying new patterns, helping people (and maybe also because they create patterns and need their own testers.) Some are going to be great and some not so great. The best you can do is to recruit a few extra for when some of the testers don’t work out.

      1. Environmental Compliance*

        Oh, I totally understand! I test knit for others pretty often. I like to get a relatively large group. I’ve never had someone get snitty like that with me, which threw me off. Usually that group that I pull from is super nice, since a good chunk are all designers too. For each test knit I’ve ran, about 25-50% of the testers vanish off into the ether to never be heard from again.

    4. London Calling*

      *No idea how to bring it up to the Boss in a tactful but still hey, this is getting ridiculous manner. We haven’t gotten close to being out of compliance because I do all my reporting way early, but it’s a ridiculous disruption to workflow, especially when the reason is that our finance person responsible for *paying our bills* consistently isn’t doing their job.*

      Finance/AP person here. My first thought is that there may be reasons out of your finance person’s control why bills aren’t being paid on time and it’s not necessarily that person not doing their job. I can’t pay anything without an approved purchase order, and getting those blighters out there in the rest of the company to approve their POs so I can pay stuff and y’know, keep this place ticking over is a major headache. Two, can recurring bills – utilities, internet and the like, be paid by direct debit? all of ours are but I’m in the UK and I don’t know if where you are operates a similar system.

      I’d start by talking to the finance person and finding out what the logjam is. Are other people not doing their bit? is the finance person slammed with work and not prioritising? it could be as simple as just not receiving the invoices.

      1. Environmental Compliance*

        Apparently the invoices come in, she sits on them for a few weeks, and then sometimes gets them out, based on the logged timeline. The other finance people do all of their stuff on time, same system, same lots of stuff. All this person does is the monthly bills. Most of the monthly stuff can be done automatically (which is why we have no delays with electric or gas), but apparently our internet bill can’t be set up like that.

        Even if it *isn’t* her, which is entirely possible and I’d really prefer it to be the system – why not bring it up and have it be fixed or addressed somehow? It’s a little strange how many times the water bill (our water has been shut off, thankfully our process draws off wells, but our bathrooms are city water) and the internet bill have been shut off for intermittent payment….but then magically the other finance person steps in and prevents too big a catastrophe.

        1. London Calling*

          Aaah, she sounds like my predecessor. No interest in what she’s doing or no processes in place or just completely clueless. He got the push and the company recruited me. Sorry, unless you can get her manager to sort her out you are stuck with it. I’ve never understood why internet bills can’t be paid by direct debit – we had the same issue with our provider. Eventually IT got so fed up of the website being shut down even when the bill had been paid that we changed provider.

  145. Shouldabin*

    I have an interview on Monday and it’s a Big Deal because I have to present an event marketing strategy in 10 minutes. I’m putting too much energy into it and I’m afraid I’m losing the big picture. They said they’re interested in the “strategy and creativity”… and they’ve asked for a timeline and details of a plan. They gave me enough details to reasonably create something but it seems like a tall order for 10 minutes. Anyone have advice about presenting a marketing strategy in 10 minutes during an interview?

  146. GradNowLawyerLater*

    How soon after starting a new job is it acceptable to ask to work from home for a day?

    For context, I started a position 3 weeks ago at an entry-level support position for 3 directors at a nonprofit. It’s a casual place and I’ve been totally on top of all my support work. We live in a city where most people take Fridays off in the summer. Many staff at my office work from home on Friday, from lower level to higher levels and it’s so quiet. I’ve found that on days where all my directors are out of office, I have hardly anything to do. My relatively easy tasks are done with by then, and I don’t get assigned any new ones or receive any emails.

    Next week, all my directors will be out of the office on Thursday AND Friday, and I anticipate it being really, really quiet for me. I want to ask to work from home on this ONE coming Friday, but I’m worried that it will be too soon for someone only 1 month into her job. We also get the Monday-Wednesday off the next week, and I don’t want to look like I’m “asking to work from home” when really I just want to extend my weekend. But at the same time, working from home seems really common and casual here. What do you all think?

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      Can you ask your supervisor? It seems like you’re right that this will go over well, if other people in similar roles do it, but usually there’s a policy they can point you to – and asking what the policy is goes over better than asking for the day if that were going to be held against you.

    2. AdAgencyChick*

      I think 3 weeks is too soon. From your manager’s perspective someone who asks after so short a time could be a rockstar employee who’s noticed the norms in the office…or she could be a slacker who’s hoping to take advantage of flexible schedules. Your manager hasn’t worked with you long enough to know which one you are.

      What you could do is mention, “hey, I’ve noticed it’s been really quiet on Fridays because the people I support are out of the office. Are there other tasks you’d like me to take on or training I should be doing on Fridays?” The answer may be yes (in which case you’ll solve the problem of being there but not being busy), or your manager may say, “Yeah, it’s dead in here! You should work from home, too!” (You might even get a combination of the two — “Yes, do the llama herding training, but feel free to do it from home when Fergus and Lucinda are out.”)

  147. M*

    Hi everyone!
    I know AAM frequently discusses resumes and substance over flair, but I’ve seen a new(?) trend I’ve been wanting opinions on.

    In a communications professionals Facebook group, many people have been introducing themselves and posting their resumes or LinkedIn links. I’ve noticed that many of the resumes (usually from new grads with only a couple internships) have a very visual layout that leaves little room for more than 2 or 3 jobs w/2 bullet points below and puts things into a column on the side. They often have a large photo/monogram/logo and their name can sometimes take up the entire top quarter or more. Sometimes it even includes a couple of objective/summary sections that end up being blocks of text.

    Resumes like this are all over Canva (image links below), but some have admitted to paying a designer or service. For someone with more than just a couple internships & degree in their career, these are nearly impossible to use it seems.

    Is this another case where attempting to stand out will backfire? Or do hiring managers prefer this now? Would love to hear from HR in marketing/comms/pr since that’s the primary field of the resume posters and myself.

    EXAMPLES: (google image search canva resume styles)

    https://marketplace.canva.com/MACEgG11M-U/3/0/thumbnail_large/canva-resume-corporate-MACEgG11M-U.jpg
    https://marketplace.canva.com/MACNS6rLdOA/1/0/thumbnail_large/canva-charcoal-and-pink-photo-girl-minimalist-resume-MACNS6rLdOA.jpg
    https://marketplace.canva.com/MACbKnptPtU/2/0/thumbnail_large/canva-dark-purple-woman-photo-customer-service-resume-MACbKnptPtU.jpg
    https://marketplace.canva.com/MACRU_d9DKw/4/0/thumbnail_large/canva-blue-simple-teacher-resume-MACRU_d9DKw.jpg

    Even crazier examples here including an origami one???
    https://www.canva.com/learn/50-inspiring-resume-designs/

    Thanks!!

    1. hambone*

      I have to say, as a design-loving marketer, a good-looking resume could definitely help someone stand out in the very initial flipping through a stack phase, but it is the experience included that matters.

      Recently, since my team wanted someone with an eye for design, it seemed like a plausible jump that someone with a nice resume could also be good at other elements. This was…very much not the case. There was more at play – her references were glowing, she was great on paper, and said the right things in the interview. Then she was a horrible employee. But, after that experience, I try to completely look past the design. So I would assume more experienced hirers wouldn’t put as much weight on the design.

      I could see them standing out in modern agencies or graphic design roles maybe, but along with advice here lately, I think a more plain text resume is good.

      Not to mention a lot of big big companies will make you submit a text version or convert what you turn into plain text anyhow.

      All this to say I had a resume with some nice design elements but recently rewrote it in a Google docs template following a lot of reading here.

      1. M*

        Yeah, the plain text resume was something I was thinking of. It’s one thing if you’re sending this in an email, but for those ATS nightmare applications, something like this would never make it through since I’m assuming the program wouldn’t know how to parse the data to find what it wants.

        I see what you’re saying about eye for design, but these are premade templates or designed by someone else, so does that negate it since it wasn’t wholly your unique design?

        Most of these were students who’d graduated either 2018 or 2017, so all they had were an internship or 3 (which is awesome, don’t get me wrong) with one or two basic lines of duties/accomplishments and their degree. So someone who had more accomplishments than one or 2 lines each or has had more than 2 or 3 jobs can’t really utilize these layouts IMO. :(

        After seeing the first 2 and remembering other posts here about not using paid resume services or overly flashy designs I was screaming internally. But then it seemed like there were a few posted every week and I began to wonder, maybe this is the new thing and I’m wrong and should attempt to squeeze my 2 page resume (that im always trying to shrink, and admittedly could do a better job tailoring for each application) into one of these. But I’ll never not hate the ones where a quarter to a third is just their name. yikes.

  148. Hazelthyme*

    Work-related brag/victory lap here: I GOT A NEW JOB!!! Same line of work (consulting) in the same industry (higher ed); bigger and more established company; more opportunity for growth; better travel schedule; and yes, better compensation.

    A few AAM nuggets of wisdom that helped me get here:
    * It’s OK to interview even if you’re not sure you want the job. I hadn’t been looking, so when a former colleague who works at the new company contacted me, I approached the process as a two-way street, where both of us were trying to see if this was a good match.
    * If you have to do a phone interview in less-than-optimal conditions, make the best of it and move on. I did 2 from my car (I was at a client site), acknowledged it briefly at the start of each call (in the context of “please let me know if you notice any issues with sound quality”), and that was that.
    * Prepare for the interview ahead of time. When I was finally invited to an onsite interview, I spent a good chunk of the previous day reviewing my resume, practicing how I might answer the Big 3 questions (tell us about yourself/ why this job?/ why our company?), and working through as many “tell us about a time when you …” questions as I could think of, so I’d have a variety of anecdotes ready. I also had several questions for my interviewers jotted down ahead of time so I wouldn’t forget them in the stress of the moment. The recruiter later mentioned that the feedback from my interviewers was overwhelmingly positive, and I had a written offer 5 days after interviewing.
    * Be a few minutes early but not too much, and be pleasant to everyone you meet on the premises. The casually dressed 20something who rode up with in the elevator with me turned out to be the person who’s arranged all the logistics for my interviews, and the older, slightly frazzled woman waiting in the lobby with me was my first interviewer.
    * Know what the market rate for the position is, and don’t be afraid to negotiate salary. I ended up with a 10-20% bump, which was more than I’d expected.
    * Wait till the offer to bring up conditions or “what’s it it for me?” concerns. At this point, my upcoming pre-planned vacation and a fairly minor travel-related request hardly made anyone bat an eye.
    * Counteroffers may be flattering, but think long and hard before you accept one. Mine came from fairly high up in my current conpany, and was broader than just more money — but I also know that however genuine their intentions are, most of the conditions and limitations of this position that made me willing to consider other opportunities are unlikely to change any time soon.

    So excited, and grateful for the knowledge I’ve gained here that helped me end up in this position!

  149. Nisie*

    Any tips for a 1099 worker? I’m going to start working next month with a company and need to figure out how to handle the finances.

    It’s a little concerning to me that they’ve hired so many new folks and makes me wonder about the churn rate… but the money is very good, and it’s largely work from home. I lost my last job because my daughter couldn’t attend day care due running a fever and the a week later, my husband broke his foot and had to have surgery. I was new and my attendance was ‘problematic’ .

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      I assume you know this already (sorry if so) but watch out for those taxes. You have to be proactive about it or you will be charged penalties. If you don’t know what I’m talking about, definitely ask around and make sure you are clear on the situation, as I had several friends really get bit by that one.

    2. MissCPA*

      Instead of your employer withholding taxes from your check, you will need to make estimated tax payments every quarter. Since I worked for a large CPA firm we had software we used to do this, so I don’t know if turbotax or some other tax software could do this estimate work for you or not. But you’ll need to take into account your husband’s income as well (if you file joint) and make sure you have enough paid in during the year jointly to avoid penalties and interest. Another option would be to find a local CPA who could do this for you. I’d say make sure you’re just not spending all the money you make, because some of it belongs in the gov’t purse.

  150. Overwhelmed with Life!*

    I have gotten multiple written warnings at my job. I know it is only a matter of time before I get fired. This position is simply not a good fit for me. I was hoping to stay there 8 months to a year so I don’t look like a job hopper, but I don’t think I will be able to last. Due to ADHD and a learning disability, I have really struggled with the multitasking this position requires. I love the interpersonal part of this job, but struggle with concentrating on the paperwork. I can produce good quality work if I can focus on one thing at a time. But when I have to write a report while taking a phone call about an unrelated matter and simaultaneously trying to supervise a patient (who may be vomiting, psychotic, or agitated), I am prone to making mistakes on the report. My first priority is always the patient’s safety. I have been told I provide excellent service to the parients, but my paperwork is disorganized and I take too long to write up my reports. Management has said that I need to focus more on the administrative tasks and less on the patients. Some staff members are able to deescalate patients while also doing other tasks, but for me, I can only tend to the patient because of my multitasking difficulties.

    I’ve been working diligently to improve, but I don’t think I’ll be able to turn things around. Within the past month, 11 people have left (some because they chose to quit, others because they were fired). It is a mass exodus. We are incredibly short-staffed, which makes it even harder for to keep up with my expanding duties. Management has chosen to leave some of the positions unfilled to save money, adding to the stress. This is extremely difficult for all of my coworkers to deal with, but add my ADHD and LD into the mix and I just can’t keep up at all.

    Should I put in my two weeks? I don’t want to get fired. Regardless of if I quit or am fired, I know I won’t qualify for my state’s unemployment. Based on their rules, I haven’t continuously held a job long enough over the past year to qualify. I have enough money saved up to last a couple of months, but of course I’d rather be receiving income than relying on my emergency savings. If a car or health issue crops up while I’m unemployed, I’ll be screwed.

    This job looks great on a resume, and I would hate to leave it off. To make matters worse, I was also fired from my last job which I held briefly this winter. (Similar reason for that termination: I was too slow, didn’t file papers in an organized fashion, and would transpose numbers due to my dyscalculia). As a result, I leave that position off my resume, making it look like I haven’t worked at all since last fall. I want to be able to include my current position on my resume so I don’t have to explain what I’ve been doing all this time without a job. But if I quit, then I have to explain why I left this job after only four months. (If I’m fired, I won’t mention this job period).

    What are your thoughts: should I quit or let myself be fired?

    1. NotaPirate*

      If people are dropping like flies management may keep you around even with multiple warnings. I would try my hardest to be able to show improvement in the areas they asked for, and be job hunting frantically. It’s so much easier to get a job while still employed.

      Have you tried verbal transcription software? It’s not perfect but it does an okay job and it might help you with your reports. Most newer windows computers have it standard, search like “speech recognition”. Also check and see if you qualify for any accommodations at work with your LD.

      1. Sloan Kittering*

        I agree with this. In your circumstance, I would make them fire me if they want to fire me – they may be so hard up for employees that they’ll keep you on long enough that you can find another job before the ax falls. Meanwhile, job search HARD for positions that are more people-oriented and let you do more of the patient stuff, and as little paperwork as possible (like home health aid maybe? I have a friend who makes pretty good money as basically a companion to an elderly and unwell person – but I’m talking outside my field so I will stop).

    2. Anon Forever*

      First, have you been working professionals to develop strategies for your learning disability and ADHD? If you haven’t I would strongly recommend that be your first step.

      I don’t know what type of work that you are currently doing, but most jobs are going to require some sort of ability to multi-task at least part of the day. So developing skills so that you can manage that would probably be a good step.

      Personally, I wouldn’t quit yet. I would talk to my boss, and see if there are systems or recommendation that he/she could make. And, if you think you might quit anyway, then having an honest conversation with your boss about your performance and your concern about being let go.

    3. Susan K*

      Maybe this is a case where you could talk to your managers about realizing this job isn’t a good fit for you and making an exit plan? There was a post here about that, which I will link in the next comment, or you can do a search for the post called, “My boss and I agreed to plan my exit from my job.”

    4. Argh!*

      Have you requested an ADA accommodation? It may be possible to shift some of the admin stuff to someone else or relocate your desk.

    5. Nisie*

      Try calling your department of vocational rehabilitation and ask for help with what’s know as a job save. You may benefit from job coaching or assistive technology.

    6. Specialk9*

      This is the exact situation that my family member – a doctor, surgeon, and researcher who has strong dyslexia, as well as slow auditory processing, and some subtle deafness. He was fired, after they promised him a scribe as an accommodation but then never came through. It was really demoralizing.

      He went to another hospital, one that wasn’t a flaming sinking ship, and his innovation and out-of-box thinking meant he quickly became the lead of his dept.

      So have hope – this is not the end of your story, and not all places are as dysfunctional as your current one.

  151. Anon Forever*

    So this week, my companies health insurance got cancelled for non-payment. The person responsible for making sure that the premiums were paid claimed that he didn’t receive the invoices . This gets to join the 27 million other issues that we have, like the fact that paychecks are too often incorrect, 401k contributions regularly get jacked up, and we all have to keep track of how much PTO we’ve used because the system randomly deducts PTO.

    We are apparently getting our health insurance reinstated, although the person responsible isn’t sure of when.

    1. Ann Furthermore*

      OMG, that’s awful. I hope everyone is reinstated retroactively, just in case. I started a new job that I am loving at the beginning of May, and I had to wait until June 1 for the benefits to start. COBRA for my family and me would have been $1900. Yikes. That was a long few weeks.

      1. Anon Forever*

        It has to be retroactively, as the only reason we found out about our health insurance is that one of our staff had a procedure done and it was rejected by the insurance company because we had no coverage.

    2. Kat in VA*

      At the risk of sounding alarmist, it almost sounds like someone is…skimming or cooking the books or outright stealing. Maybe I’m just being paranoid, but those issues are all money-based – even the PTO, because if the system somehow magically deducts PTO hours, then people aren’t getting paid for their PTO, right?

      I assume employees put money toward their insurance premiums every month too? So where are THOSE funds going? Example for those not in the US: we pay $300 a paycheck toward our family insurance coverage, the husband’s company foots the rest of the premium.

      I hope whoever is in charge is taking a long hard look at how this employee is managing their money, because it sounds like the cash issues are ongoing, which could be the result of someone stealing and trying to cover their butt. (“Robbing Peter to pay Paul” kind of situation.)

      Now, if it’s the owner of the company, you might have bigger problems than one thieving employee. :(

      All I can say is, I’m sorry. It sucks when companies screw around with your money, be it insurance, paychecks, PTO, or 401(k) contributions.

  152. Had Matter's Pea Tarty*

    So last week I started a temporary job on three month’s casual contract which may be extended afterwards, depending on how much work they have. My immediate superior/supervisor is my mother. Although she’s told me that objectively (based on 20+ experience in the industry) my work is good for someone of my level of experience and qualification, and that her co-workers like me, I’m still doubting whether I’m good enough or just got the job through nepotism. I feel like I don’t deserve the position. That working with her is damaging my ability to get future jobs because I’ll be used to my supervisor waking me up in the morning and giving me a cup of coffee. Okay, that was half a joke but still… It’s not good to get used to this kind of working environment, right?

    Another child of a worker there just took a position similar to mine, helping over the summer, but I’m still feeling insecure…

    1. Cedrus Libani*

      In your position, I’d be making the most of the opportunities available. Are there relevant skills you can learn there? Preferably ones with some sort of concrete deliverable, because let’s face it, nobody’s going to believe your mother when she says you’re a good employee…even (especially?) if she was your boss. On that note, are there other, preferably more senior, employees who you can arrange to work with, so you can have someone else vouch for you?

      I would absolutely be looking for another job. Many people get an internship via their parents, there’s no particular shame in that, but I’d start to wonder about someone who spent years in such an arrangement. Will they be able to cope with the real world…or are they stone cold unemployable, and mom is enabling them?

      1. Had Matter's Pea Tarty*

        It’s quite a niche industry and mostly I’m learning skills that would help me in that particular role but not much elsewhere. That is to say, my duties aren’t applicable to an office job, retail, catering, etc, unless office jobs require the ability to process sample buckets and pick finds from trays…

        And I’ve been applying for jobs since I graduated in 2015 at a rate of 5-15 a week, yet this is the first actual position I’ve got past the interview stage at. I live in the countryside, I can’t drive so rely on public transport, I have very little work experience, I did a useless degree, and I have Asperger’s, so maybe I am unemployable. It’s beginning to look that way, anyway.

  153. HerNameWasLola*

    I have an opportunity to return to a job that I loved but it’s a lower title and lower pay than what I currently have. I feel that I may be able to make it work financially but as for the title, I’m not so sure. It would be going from Teapot Administrator to say Teapot Assistant Sr. I’m in my mid 40s which I feel works against this sort of move. Also, I’m concerned if/when I look for another job, how will I be able to explain that I really just liked the job and my current job was so incredibly toxic, I needed to leave.
    Has anyone else made this kind of move? How did it go?

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      Are you sure there’s not an opportunity to move up, or move laterally? I hate to see someone take a big paycut and drop down a title, since that can have long-term implications in your future career. Sympathies, because this stinks :(

      1. irene adler*

        Unless taking a step back results in acquiring new skills/unique experience that then allow someone to take TWO steps forward. Or the new position puts you in a company that has lots of opportunity for advancement.

        I’ve been at my job for 20+ years. So I’ve stagnated. No one’s is going to hire me. Well, Wal-Mart greeter is always open.

        I know toxic jobs make you want to take despirate measures. But don’t shoot your career in the foot to get out of there.

      2. HerNameWasLola*

        My current director would hinder any internal movement and this new opportunity would be at a different organization. I am concerned about being able to move up in the new (old?) organization because of the step back. Thank you for the input, this is really helping with my decision process :)

    2. Teapot librarian*

      Long ago, my grandpa did something like this. He worked for a state health department and was promoted to, I think, the director of the department. He didn’t like it and asked to be returned to the position he’d come from. My aunt told this story at my grandfather’s memorial service because she said it taught her that even if you CAN have a more senior position, if you don’t want it, you don’t need to do it just for appearances. Your description of your situation isn’t quite the same, but the lesson still applies that going “down” the ladder is an acceptable career move if it is what is right for you.

      1. HerNameWasLola*

        Thank you! That is a really good story to hear at this time. Way to go Grandpa for knowing what he wanted!

        I feel like if I had this job with a different boss, it would be ideal. I don’t think it would be a great move for me career-wise. :/

  154. Tongue Cluckin' Grammarian*

    I’m having trouble maintaining compassion for a coworker with a few autoimmune issues. I get that having a chronic condition (or more) is rough (I deal with one of my own), but this coworker is constantly calling in at the last minute and it’s detrimental to multiple departments (especially mine).
    This coworker used to work in my department (just the two of us), but because they were unable to be a reliable help or back-up, they were moved laterally to another department that had more people in hopes of minimizing their absence’s impact, but they have regularly called in when other people are already scheduled out ahead of time, thus short-handing the staff. My current other person gets pulled away to cover when coworker calls in, so the impact on my department is essentially the same as when coworker worked directly with me.

    I do get that you can’t always plan a flare-up’s timing, but I know this person outside of work and they regularly admit that they really don’t follow any of their plans to minimize flare-ups, they don’t pay attention to warning symptoms (but know it after the fact), and they regularly eat and do things that they know will cause them to be unable to move later on a regular basis.
    They don’t make any visible efforts to show they understand the impact they’re having on everyone else either. So, I’m struggling to maintain compassion for someone with several conditions that legitimately take them out of commission.
    I’m also in possession of the knowledge that our boss is doing what she can to make sure this coworker still has a job here, and there isn’t money in the budget to hire someone that would be superfluous when coworker is actually here.

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      Oh dear, it sounds like you know Too Much about this coworker’s health condition. It’s really better to preserve complete ignorance about this kind of stuff, because you really don’t want to get into policing somebody else’s use of time off – it’s just … not a good look. Can you push your boss to take some tasks off your plate, if you’re finding the new workload impossible? Maybe that’s a better direction to focus your energies?

      1. saffytaffy*

        I agree with Sloan. I’m so sorry you’re struggling with this, Grammarian! But I do think, if you speak to your boss, you have to frame it so it’s all about you. That’s all you can control.
        As for the compassion part, I used to get frustrated with a coworker who was vocal about being insulin-dependent, but she’d do stuff like have a blueberry muffin and a Coke for lunch because “blueberries are fruit and that’s healthy.” You know? It was so hard to be compassionate, and I just wanted to smack her! And then my dear therapist said, “why don’t you pretend that part of her disease is a mental handicap related to choosing the right food?” My anger evaporated. And now when I watch my cousin go out drinking instead of managing his Crohn’s disease, I think, okay, this is part of the disease. Call it denial or whatever, but that might help you be less frustrated on a personal level.

      2. Tongue Cluckin' Grammarian*

        Yeah, I definitely know way too much. Coworker is also an over-sharer and ignores my attempts to set boundaries. It’s gotten better since we’re not in the same department any more though.

        I definitely know to keep my thoughts to myself too about what’s going on with her time off. Adjusting workflow has already happened and it’s manageable except when my only other department-colleague is taken away to cover elsewhere due to these absences. We manage, but it just adds to the frustration, y’know?

        1. Tongue Cluckin' Grammarian*

          Thanks for that suggestion, saffytaffy. I will see if I can spin it in my own mind to consider it as part of the whole situation.

    2. Argh!*

      If she’s on FML, it’s the employer’s duty to decide what’s “reasonable” for them, not coworkers’ duty unfortunately. If you aren’t falling behind, it’s not an unreasonable burden.

      1. Tongue Cluckin' Grammarian*

        We aren’t big enough for FMLA here, and it’s markedly affecting my department (technically, I would be three separate departments in a bigger lab. I wear a lot of hats), but I’m managing with what I have. It’s just hard not to give into frustration sometimes. I don’t see coworker face-to-face very often, so I haven’t had to dig deep to stay warm and professional with them, but whenever I get notified that I’m losing my department-mate (who I’m still training too) for however long to cover elsewhere, or get told that I have to drop my whole workload because both of us are needed elsewhere due to shortages, it’s hard to be compassionate. I’m working on it.

        1. Good, Cheap, or Soon. Pick Two.*

          Ah, I hate to say this but I think you actually need to go a little further in reframing this situation in your mind. My suggested approach would be talking to your boss and saying you’re concerned about how all of this will affect your department. Point out that you don’t want the incomplete training of your second to impact her performance reviews. Say that you’re worried about completing projects in a timely manner. Raise the point that you can’t establish a good work flow. Why? Well, you don’t have a coworker problem. You have a boss problem. Your coworker’s health isn’t what screws with your workday. It’s that your boss is not handling it. This is a routine problem and it’s being handled like a one time emergency every time. So, it’s time to shift gears and come up with a better solution. Maybe hearing you discuss it as a long term, ongoing issue can help said boss realize this.

  155. HereKittyKitty*

    Hello people! I am usually a lurker and not much of a commenter. Mostly because I always miss Friday threads. I’m curious to see if there’s anybody that works full-time, but also freelances on the side? I got a little swamped in debt in grad school and though my full-time job is great, I still live paycheck to paycheck. Who here does some side-hustling? How do you balance your job and your freelance gigs?

    1. Bumblebee*

      I’ve done some freelance work while working full-time and found there are is a trade-off between rate, and total flexibility to do the work when you want.

      Example, I’ve done some freelance graphic design that I can do whenever I want, but I only get paid when people buy something – that’s earned me about $700 over the course of two years. If I never sell anything else, the work I’ve put in would equal about $3 an hour, but because it was flexible and something I enjoyed – more of a monetized hobby than anything – so I am ok with that risk.

      I’ve also written a couple of freelance articles, and that has paid more per hour, plus I don’t begin work until a pitch is accepted, so there is less risk than graphic design. But, that work comes with hard deadlines, and sometimes arranging phone interviews during the workday that I have to squeeze in. I’ve stayed up until 1am twice this week making heavier-than-expected revisions to one draft article, which has made for a few unpleasant days at my full-time job.

      My younger sister side-hustles by writing captions to videos for a transcription/subtitle company. She can do that work remotely, and whenever she has a spare hour and gets paid quickly. But, it’s also pretty low-paid; I would not want to work for that rate unless it was something I enjoyed, but may have found it worth it when I was a student/recent grad. Good luck, I hope it goes well for you!

    2. saffytaffy*

      I have one full-time job, one part-time job, and I freelance. I balance everything first of all by making my full-time job the big priority. If I need a break, I take time off from the other jobs first. I also happen to have a calm, positive FT job that leaves me with the emotional energy to work as much as I do.
      As for freelancing, I do one hour each weeknight and 4 hours each weekend day. This means I spend 12 fewer hours each week doing things I enjoy, and I go into each week ready to make that trade. If the trade ever feels unfair, I ease back on the freelance and I suck it up money-wise. For me, being aware that my other interests will suffer is the most important thing.

      1. HereKittyKitty*

        This is really helpful! My FT job is also not /super/ demanding, but I also know I have a habit of being a workaholic and I worry I’ll pile on too much stuff and not realize it until I’m overwhelmed. I like your tactic of keeping a schedule. Maybe once a month I can evaluate how I’m feeling and come up with a new schedule that suits that month?

        1. saffytaffy*

          That sounds very sensible! I also like having an explicit plan for the money. My PT job pays for my wardrobe, but you might slice things up differently, say, “5 hours of freelancing pays for my water & electricity bills” or “freelancing allows me to put $100 in a savings account every month.”

  156. Nadia*

    I work in a scientific research group at a university. One of the scientists in my division tries to eat lunch with her group (students, technicians, and post docs) on Fridays. It’s nothing formal, she just brings her lunch to the common area and sits and visits. I think it’s a way to try to connect with her team, and is a nice gesture.

    The challenge, is that she’s just been promoted to division chair, and now the group lunches are creating some conflict. Some people feel that now that she’s the chair she shouldn’t favor one group in this way. Others think this is perfectly fine – she still has her own research program, and these people are still part of it.

    What say you, AAM community? Bonus points if you can point me to previous columns discussing this issue, as my google-fu failed me!

    1. Forking Great Username*

      Both sides have valid points, so it seems like there should be some compromise going on – can she make a point to rotate who she eats with or have something else she does to check in with other groups at a different time?

    2. Argh!*

      If she’s still part of that group, I think it’s okay. She has a responsibility to stay in touch with them, and her new duties have probably distanced her from them a bit.

    3. Cat Herder*

      She could instead have a rotating lunch with each group, host lunch or coffee time with the students (could break it up by group —post doc, grad, undergrad), brown bags, etc.

  157. Forking Great Username*

    I’m in the process of applying for jobs, and am not sure I’m handling the references portion correctly. One part of the form has you plug in your work history (whyyyy must they ask for this when you’ve already uploaded your resume?) and contact info for a supervisor from each job on that history. The next page asks for three references – people who know your character as well as your work.

    Is it okay if my references are my supervisor/manager? They really do know my work and my character best and are all happy to give excellent, detailed references. I could ask other people to be a reference, but none of them know my work nearly as well.

    (If it matters, I’m going into teaching, so really these managers/supervisors are my cooperating teachers and my university supervisor.)

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      It’s not just “okay,” your references should almost certainly be your supervisor/manager.

      1. Forking Great Username*

        Okay, good! That’s what I thought made sense, but the fact that I’m essentially giving the same information twice in a row had me second guessing. Thank you!

  158. Teapot librarian*

    Someone recommended the book “The No A**holes Rule” in a comment thread earlier in the week, and I just picked it up from the library. I can’t wait to go home and read it!

  159. Argh!*

    Boss goes on vacation. Sends notice about being out of town the next morning. Gee thanks, boss.

    She does this all the time. I hate it.

    To find a reason to excuse this lack of communication, I have decided that one of these must be true:
    1. She has a stalker and keeps vacations a secret to prevent stalker from following her.
    2. She is a member of the KKK and doesn’t want to discuss her cross-burning training sessions.
    3. She is a member of the Church of Scientology, and someone has reported her for doing something wrong, so she has to go get audited right away and she isn’t allowed to notify her staff.
    4. Alien abduction.

    2. NotaPirate*

      She’s a former member of the Stargate Program. They unexpectedly need her to solve problems arising on Atlantis and Stargate Command. She can’t tell you she’s off working with aliens so she just disapears.

      1. TotesMaGoats*

        You just never know when the Asgard are going to beam a person up because they need a “stupid human” solution to a problem.

    4. Canadian Natasha*

      She is working a secret second job as a getaway driver for a bank robbing crime syndicate. To avoid anyone leaking their plans to the Feds her bosses only tell her about the jobs on the day of the robbery and she has to race to the rendezvous point at short notice.

  160. Jayess*

    I need help/permission to quit a job that involves working with inner city/underprivileged kids. It helped me break into my field, and I care for the kids, but it’s part time and is now costing me professional development opportunities (I also work full-ish time at another location, in my field). I’ve never left a job for any reason other than “moving” or “moving up.” And I wanted to stay longer, since there’s high turnover in my position. Right now I’m only at about 1.5 years. Ideally I would have already given notice, as we break for the summer… then admin could post my position for fall. But I keep thinking “if I can tough out Sept-Dec, I’ll have finished 2 years.” But then on the other hand I’m pretty tapped out from scheduling both jobs, and – as mentioned – missing professional development/advancement at my other job.

    1. NotaPirate*

      You have to do what is best for you. You burning out means no one gets helped. You keeping a manageable amount of works means decades of helping by working in your field. I give you permission to be selfish in this decision.

    2. spiderqueen*

      It sounds like you can leave on a good note at a natural time point if you leave now. If it is hampering your career growth and causing scheduling issues I think those are reason enough to leave, especially because you already have a full time job. If you feel bad about leaving the underprivileged kids perhaps you can find a lower commitment volunteer role to fill that space in your life.

  161. spiderqueen*

    I am leaving my first professional job at the end of the month and my employer recently posted the position. I shared it with my alumni network as it is in the same city as the school. A recent grad has reached out to me to see if I will talk to them about the position. What is the etiquette here? What are the boundaries? Are there things I shouldn’t talk about (potential changes to the position, challenges, etc.)? Do I need to tell my employer this person reached out to me?

  162. Free Meerkats*

    One of our office kitties hasn’t appeared since Tuesday! While this isn’t that unusual with the semi-feral cats (a previous one disappeared for 3 months), it’s concerning. And she’s the most domesticated. Her brother is walking around meowing loudly right now. It doesn’t help that his favorite people aren’t here, boss retired and his other favorite person is on vacation.

    I’ll post if she returns, but I miss her.

    2. Emily S.*

      I hope she’s all right! And comes back soon.

      I used to have a cat who’d originally been feral, before being rescued. Zach was an inside/outside cat who loved to go on adventures all over the place. One time, he disappeared for five whole days (!). I was freaking out. Then one evening I heard a very weak “meow” at the door — he was wounded and filthy, but I was so happy to see the little bugger!

  163. VeryAnonToday*

    Freelancer question here – I need to tell a client I can’t work for her anymore but she is of the… explosive… temperament.

    Bit of background, we met at a networking event and I agreed to take on some sales work for her high end llama accessories business (obviously not the real product!) which involved researching potential stockists and showing them the brand. Initially it went well with a lot of stockists going ‘oooo new llama accessories, come show us’ but I found that when I actually showed them the product and explained a bit about the brand they weren’t that interested after all.

    One interesting bit of feedback one potential stockist gave me was that while the quality of the products is really wonderful, the actual product line doesn’t reflect this. As in there were some products that these high end stockists just couldn’t see selling in their area of the market but would work in less high end shops – think the next price bracket down, like going from Bentley to Audi maybe (thinking of an example on the spot there!). I fed this back to the client and said ‘maybe we ought to try the mid range llama herder shops as well’ and she kiiind of lost it, saying that I was implying the product wasn’t a luxury product, that it was handmade (it isn’t? It’s hand finished) and the materials used were sourced from the best suppliers, mid range stores couldn’t afford us, yadda yadda.

    I decided after this outburst (which hasn’t been the first) that I was going to finish up the work until the end of June (which is fast approaching) and then I am going to tell her that I can’t continue the job. It’s mainly because she loses her temper so much at me but also because she won’t listen to my suggestions. I am no novice at sales and hard selling in lots of different industries and I have never had a client in the past that has been so unreceptive to feedback. Plus she emails or calls me every day and I have a lot of clients at the moment, so I’ve got work to do for them as well.

    I get that it’s her brand. I understand it’s hard to get a new product line into the shops. But it’s harder even still when you are pitching it to the wrong part of the market. My stomach has started to drop when I see her number appear on caller ID. So I need to dump her – I am going to recommend an excellent sales agency to her who can help her in the same way I have, plus they charge less than me, but she’s still going to yell at me.

    TL;DR: I’m a freelancer and I need to break up with a volatile client without getting my head bit off, help!

    1. Boredatwork*

      I think you’re going to have to get your head bitten off…

      Maybe you frame this, as you feel like she needs to go in a different direction because you’ve been unsuccessful getting her product in the sort of stores she wants. Say other firm may have different tactics and you don’t think you’ll be able to make any additional progress.

      Which is all true – she wants a Bentley and you can only give her an Audi. Her delusions of grandeur are her problem not yours.

    2. Mr. Demeanor*

      You might consider changing your goal because you can’t control another person’s response, only your own. Maybe it should be to terminate the relationship in the most professional way you know how, which it sounds like you can easily do based on your experience and communication skills. Since you anticipate this not going well, you can send her written notice saying that you need to wrap up your working relationship, providing a firm date, and outlining what you will finish up during that time as well as your recommendations. Then say you will follow up with her in a few days, establishing a cooling-off period. If you are speaking by phone and she begins yelling, you have the choice to politely end the conversation or let her vent, and then continue with your termination plan. Good Luck!

      1. HyacinthB*

        I like your response better than mine, although we were going along the same lines. A written termination is probably best.

        1. VeryAnonToday*

          Yeah I think in writing is probably the best thing – since I wrote that she’s called me twice (in my time zone it’s past work hours, on a Friday night, which is NetFlix and wine time) but hasn’t left a voicemail. This is the kind of person she is.

          And she’s already paid me in full for the work, to answer the comment below, she did that up front so no worries there. I am ignoring her till Monday. I really can’t do this without being bitten, can I?

    3. HyacinthB*

      Just rip off that band-aid. You know she won’t take it well. Remain calm and just keep repeating, “I won’t be able to continue working with you.” If she keeps screaming and won’t let it go, at some point maybe just say, “Okay, thank you. Good-bye.” And hang up. I hope you you are paid in full first though.

    4. AdAgencyChick*

      You might not be able to avoid getting your head bitten off. A more achievable end goal is probably “fire the client and end the conversation as quickly as possible.” This can include saying, “I’m not comfortable being spoken to in this way. I’m going to have to end this conversation, and I wish you well.”

    5. Free Meerkats*

      Offer no explanations or excuses, that just gives her room to argue. Just say that you aren’t going to continue the business relationship and here’s an agency that might be more successful for her.

      And yeah, in writing sounds like a good plan.

    6. Courageous cat*

      I can never tell sometimes – am I legitimately having deja vu or have you posted this comment in the past?

      I hate deja vu.

      1. Courageous cat*

        I’m thinking not because, rereading it a second time, it doesn’t sound familiar to me at all anymore. But for a minute there I could have sworn I’d read it before word for word.

  164. AnonForThisPost*

    As a newbie in the workforce, can anyone tell me what is considered “good” benefits package? What’s considered generous PTO/Sick Time or “good” health/dental insurance?

    1. Boredatwork*

      oops – I didn’t actually comment.

      1) 10 days is pretty standard for paid time off. The most generous I’ve seen in 25 days.
      2) Sick time (in my opinion) should be unlimited. If you need to be out for 2-3 days 2-3 times a year, no one should punish you for that.
      3) Flexibility for start time/working from home is great.
      4) Flexibility around life-stuff, even if that life-stuff is having TV’s delivered
      5) Health insurance should be affordable (if you have a co-pay) and good enough that you can actually use it. Mine is exceptional – $20 bi-weekly, 70/30 split until you reach 7% of your salary, then 100%.
      6) 401(k) match – they should have something in place.

      1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

        10 days PTO is very low, especially if it’s combined sick and vacation. I currently get 30 days PTO; my org starts folks at 18 days, which also strikes me as low.

        I’ve never seen unlimited sick time. That would be delightful!

        1. Boredatwork*

          I’ve never not had unlimited sick time. IDK how people deal with flu season & childcare without it!

        2. SkyePilot*

          We have pretty low PTO but it is made up for by unlimited sick time for you AND if you need to care for a family member. SkyeCoPilot threw his back out and needed to be run around town for a day and I didn’t have to take any official time!

    2. AvonLady Barksdale*

      So much of “good” is subjective, so I’ll just give you mine. I think 3 weeks/15 days of vacation PLUS sick leave (maybe… 6 days a year) would be very good if I were just starting out. My first big corporate job started with 10 days of vacation, I forget how much sick time (separate bucket– I think it was 6 days/year), two personal days and summer Fridays. Plus company holidays, of course. That increased to 15 days of vacation with either 5 years’ tenure or promotion to a manager-level position. I thought it was a pretty good package, especially with the summer Fridays. (I MISS THOSE SO MUCH.) My current job has one PTO bucket with 15 days, but I’m also in a senior position with a ton of flexibility, plus we’re closed between Christmas and New Year’s Day.

      Health insurance varies so much. At the aforementioned big corporate job, I think I started out paying $60/month (pre-tax, I think) for excellent health insurance and $5/month for excellent dental insurance. I had options of less or more expensive plans. The plan I went with had a great network of doctors and was available nationally, which was important to me because my entire family lived out of state. I also had very low co-pays. My current job covers health and dental 100%, but my deductible is on the higher side. However, once that’s met, everything is covered. Both of these options strike me as pretty solid, with their own pros and cons. My last job offered no company paid health insurance, so that sucked and I would’t do it again.

      Basically, you have to look at all your options and see what makes sense for you. Personally, I would not take an office job that offered no paid time off at all, even if only for the first year.

    3. Cat Herder II*

      Vacation time — It really depends on your industry. I’m in tech and I consider anything less than 15 vacation days to be low. I currently have 24 vacation days plus sick time (6 days maybe?). On the other hand, 3 weeks would be considered very good in other industries, especially for entry level.

      Ask around with people who work in your field and see what they tell you. As a rule of thumb, anything less than two weeks is generally considered low, especially if that’s vacation and sick time combined.

      I’m not well-positioned to tell you about “good” insurance because I don’t have much basis for comparison, unfortunately! Ask around about that one too.

    4. Anon Forever*

      I would say “good” health/dental insurance can range wildly and it can depend on if you have dependents. For example, where I work the coverage and premium isn’t terrible (it’s $200 a month or so), but if you have dependents or a spouse it’s pretty horrible. Premium’s start at $1200 a month with an OOP of 30k.

    5. Aphrodite*

      I work as a staff member at a community college so we tend to have government-level benefits. At my college, we get 16 holidays, between 8-24 days of vacation (we can hold in reserve two years’ worth), 1 day of sick leave per month (can be accumulated to an unlimited degree), a choice of four health plans (3 PPOs at 100%, 90% and 80%) and 1 HMO) that the college mostly pays for, vision plans included, a choice of 3 dental plans (mine, the middle one, pays 100% of most charges up to $3,000 per calendar), short-term disability, discounts around town, and more.

    6. Cat Herder*

      Pay attention to retirement benefits as well. Does the employer do a match and how big is it? How long til you’re vested? Any limitations on putting $ in or taking $ it out? If you leave will you be able to roll accounts over? Do you have any choice on kinds of accounts?

  165. DoctorateStrange*

    I have the worst case of imposter syndrome right now. It is my soon-to-be third week at my new job. Every time I make a mistake, I internally lambast myself.

    I guess part of it is because this is my first full-time job and I am 27 years old.

    I also worry that people think I got the job because I’m friendly with my supervisor. Two other people had been trying to apply to the position for a long while (even before me), and I worry they may think I don’t have it in me to do a good job.

    I keep reminding myself that I’m the only one going to school for the industry we’re in (I also rehearsed and researched a lot for my job interviews), so I’m trying to not feel like I’m fake. But those thoughts that I don’t belong won’t stop!

    1. spiderqueen*

      One thing that helped me with my imposter syndrome is identifying something that I have succeeded at. Sometimes it’s as little as “gave a good introduction at a meeting” or “answered all my e-mails today”. Being young and starting a job means that you have stuff to learn both about the work and about the office culture, remind yourself that you are new and it is ok to make a few mistakes, they help you learn and slowly you will figure it out.

    2. Catwoman*

      When I felt like this in grad school (which was early and often), I would remind myself that they let me into the program and they wouldn’t have done so if they didn’t think I could finish it.

      It also helps to put your mistakes in perspective. After I made a (rather big) mistake at a previous job, my fantastic manager asked me what happened, I owned up to not verifying a piece of information before proceeding with a process (the verification would have told me not to proceed). His response was basically, yes it’s big deal, yes that was bad, but nobody died, so here’s how we’re going to fix it and all move on with our lives. To this day, when I feel terrible after making a mistake, that’s what I remind myself of.

  166. AdventureAwaits*

    Hey everyone, I have a work related question I could use some advice on.

    I live in Country A and moved to Country B to do an internship/academic work about a year ago. I missed Country B so much that I decided to get a temporary work visa (my country has an agreement with Country B for this) and move back without a job – you only have one life, etc etc. I’m happy to work at anything there, but I really loved Former Internship Place, it’s in my field, and I think it would be ridiculous not to at least try. Apparently my bosses there really liked my work, and even if they don’t have any vacancy at the moment, they might well have contacts in the field or some suggestions. Do you think it would be wrong to write to my former supervisor and ask about it? If so, do you have any advice for going about that?

    Thanks everyone!

    1. AeroEngineer*

      I would say definitely reach out! I am having a similar situation now, and honestly, so far networking is the only thing which is getting me further than the first stage at the companies I want to work in. The field I work in is quite small, and there are a lot of job openings which aren’t even listed online.

      I would write them an email giving a short update on what you have been doing since you finished your internship, and then just ask!

  167. Boredatwork*

    1) 10 days is pretty standard for paid time off. The most generous I’ve seen in 25 days.
    2) Sick time (in my opinion) should be unlimited. If you need to be out for 2-3 days 2-3 times a year, no one should punish you for that.
    3) Flexibility for start time/working from home is great.
    4) Flexibility around life-stuff, even if that life-stuff is having TV’s delivered
    5) Health insurance should be affordable (if you have a co-pay) and good enough that you can actually use it. Mine is exceptional – $20 bi-weekly, 70/30 split until you reach 7% of your salary, then 100%.
    6) 401(k) match – they should have something in place.

      1. SwissPurple*

        Agreed. My last company had 15 PTO/year, and those around >5 years get additional week. Sick time accrued separately. I’m in the Bay Area.

    2. beanie beans*

      I interviewed with a company recently and during one of the interviews the hiring manager didn’t know what the PTO was (since she hadn’t taken any yet in the 6 months or so that she’d been there) but she was “sure it was standard.” All kinds of red flags later I find out it’s 2 weeks combined sick time and vacation time and when I seemed surprised she told me it was “industry standard.” I wanted to say, not for companies looking to hire quality candidates, but I did not. But I did decline any future interviews.

  168. Looking for my Lucky Break*

    Any readers in higher education who can give me insight into the university hiring process?

    I’ve been applying for non-faculty positions at our state university and the hiring process is discouraging to say the least. I’ve had interviews for two different positions (4 hour long interviews). After a few weeks I was rejected from the first position but have yet to hear back from the second position (it’s been over a month since I interviewed). I didn’t receive a reply to my follow up email, which is especially disheartening. Taking into account my education, experience, and references, I’m a solid candidate and can at least make it to a runner-up status. I could go a few more months of being unemployed before I really need a job but I don’t know when I should give up on applying at the university for a rewarding career and when I should resign myself to a position in the private sector.

    What does the decision-making process look like after the interview? Any insights into following up with faculty after an interview?

    1. TotesMaGoats*

      Higher ed hiring is notoriously slow. The problem usually lies in all the boxes that must be checked internally before an offer can be made. At a previous job it looked like this:

      -Position vacated
      -Approval to rehire
      -Approval of job description
      -Approval of salary
      -Position finally posted
      -2-4 weeks of interview process (minimum)
      -final candidate selected
      -references checked
      -candidate approved
      -salary approved
      -position can NOW be offered
      There are usually lots of people in different offices that have to sign off before you can make the offer and you add to it budget woes that may hold up an offer. It sucks.
      Yeah. On in CurrentJob have I ever seen higher ed hiring move so fast.

      1. Catwoman*

        +100
        I had completely forgotten I’d even applied for the position when I received a call to schedule my phone interview for my first university job. And after that, it was a least another month before I was on campus for my first day. Internal moves can be, and often are, faster but if you’re coming in from the outside, it takes ages.

      2. Looking for my Lucky Break*

        Thank you, TotesMaGoats! I knew there were a lot of steps to the process but this was enlightening.

    2. Purplerains*

      I work in higher ed and it’s extremely competitive for most jobs. We received over 80 applications for the last two searches I was part of. I don’t know what kinds of positions you are applying for, but often we have temp pools that you can apply to. And yes, the process can take forevvveeeerr. It can be months from when the position closes to when an offer is made depending on how quick the search committee moves. Make sure to address every required qualification in your application, even if it’s just in your cover letter. Some search committees will take applicants out of the running if they don’t show they have all of the qualifications stated for the position. Keep applying and good luck! Once you’re in, you’re in. :)

      1. Looking for my Lucky Break*

        I’d like to be in so I’m always in! :) Thank you so much for your reply. It’s good to know that the process may just be slow because it’s slow – not because they’re running away from me!

    3. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

      In my experience, state universities work at a glacial pace. You very well could still be in the running for the second position, but for anything new you’d be applying to at this point it’s unlikely that you’d be able to start a job at the university within the next few months.

      Actually I was just interrupted from writing this comment by a coworker who came in to complain about how terrible and inefficient university HR systems are. So it’s not just you! :)

      Good luck!

    4. Kate Daniels*

      It is so slow! For my first job, it took about a month from in-person interview to offer. For my second job, it took about two months. I thought I was perhaps the second choice (and the first choice was mulling over the offer), but found out later that they had to get various approvals and the paperwork sometimes just gets stuck on someone’s desk for awhile because they have other priorities.

      Keep in mind that they may already have an internal candidate in mind and just have to post the job widely for a set amount of time and even go through motions of briniging in candidates for interviews—so not getting an offer could have been set from the start.

    5. Aphrodite*

      Keep trying even if you have to take another job in the meantime. Higher ed here (California) is notorious for already knowing who they are going to hire before they post the job. At the UC in my town, I was reliably informed that 80 percent of the job openings are already taken. I know where I work (a community college) it’s quite common but I don’t know a percent.

      Also, yes, time. It takes time. You should think of higher ed the way you do government; they have their rails and they run on them. But … the benefits are outstanding. It’s probably rare that they are this good outside of government and education. There are downsides; you just have to decide if you can handle all the politics and rigidity.

  169. Alex the Alchemist*

    I’m relatively new to the working world, and this came up for me personally today- My doctor’s office called me while I was at work, and the call ended up taking about 10 minutes which was a lot longer than anticipated. I had also only just gotten back from lunch when the call happened. I stepped away from the desk (I’m paid hourly, and work at a library front desk- there were two other people covering at the desk too) and none of my supervisors said anything to me, but I still feel just “weird” about whether or not I should’ve actually taken that phone call. I usually try and do stuff like that on my lunch breaks/days off, but I know with scheduling that doesn’t always work out. What have others experienced in the working world? Am I honestly just overthinking this? (Probably, but I want to get a feel for what other offices are like.)

    1. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Overthinking! You don’t want to take personal calls constantly, but a single call during work time– especially incoming, I do think that makes a difference– isn’t usually a problem. Your supervisors don’t need to know that it was your doctor calling, but if they did, I’m sure they’d understand (they probably do regardless). Don’t sweat it!

      1. Alex the Alchemist*

        Thank you! That’s what I was thinking, too, but there’s the tiny part in my brain that was trying to tell me otherwise.

      2. ..Kat..*

        Also, you say two other people were there to cover for you. If you had been the only one at the desk, I would recommend not picking up the call.

  170. SwissPurple*

    I am struggling with being constantly interrupted by others mid-sentence during meetings and discussions. I’m not rambling; I often get one short sentence out before being cut off by others and this goes on for the entire meeting.

    Recently, I was trying to directly ask a question to coworker, who kept cutting me off mid-sentence and explain things I already know because he thinks that’s the question instead of letting me finish. After 5 minutes of this, I blurted out somewhat harshly ‘So the question I’ve been trying to ask for the last 5 minutes is this, let me finish!’.

    I’m not too proud of myself, but what would be a good way to politely call out people on this constant interruptions? For context, I’m the only female in an engineering group of 4 other men, and I’m 5-15 years younger than them. We all have PhDs in engineering, which itself is a male-dominated group.

    1. Delta Delta*

      That’s exactly what I would also do. Alternatively, walk away when interrupted.

    2. spiderqueen*

      I am irritated on your behalf. How rude.
      Have you tried to just continue talking when they interrupt? Just pretend that they are not talking and keep going, see if they shut up. It is rude, but their interrupting is also very rude.

      1. HyacinthB*

        If that doesn’t work, maybe somewhat pointedly pause while they talk and then (again maybe a little tersely) say, “Yes, I know, but what I am asking/saying is…” Not overtly rude but clear that THEY are the ones that don’t understand.

        Ugh. These people make me crazy.

    3. Fellow (Future) Engineer*

      I’m a fellow female in engineering, but I’m still in university. However, this also happens to me in group meetings sometimes and your post made me second-hand angry/annoyed for you!!
      Haha… anyways, I agree with the other commenters, maybe try just talking through the interruptions or not addressing what they say when they interrupt and just repeating what you were originally trying to say before they cut you off. Honestly, your response sounds perfect. It may feel rude/uncomfortable (I know how it is ugh) but if they’re not gonna listen to you/stop/take a polite hint, then you gotta be more direct and they’ll figure it out eventually. So frustrating! I hope they start listening better soon. You deserve to be heard!!

      1. Fellow (Future) Engineer*

        Or maybe if you feel more comfortable, bringing up the issue directly the next time you find yourself interrupted multiple times… “I find am frequently being interrupted when I speak, which is hurting our efficiency because I have to make several attempts to get out my original idea due to people misunderstanding my unfinished statement. Please let me finish. What I meant was…..” Maybe reword it a bit/make it more polite/better suited towards the specific situation or maybe a more simple “I think there is a misunderstanding because I was interrupted before I finished.” Maybe someone else has a better script that would work more towards being better suited to being more junior. I just heavily relate to this frustrating situation and I think they may not even realize how frequently they rudely interrupt so it wouldn’t hurt to professionally address the root issue. It also feels a bit sexist and annoying that this is so common to women in STEM still.

    4. Thlayli*

      I have a PhD in engineering also (waves) and I have the opposite problem. I can’t stand it when people talk slow and I find it really hard it’s top myself from jumping in and finishing the sentence for them. Also some people pause for SOOO LOOONG between sentences that I assume they’ve finished talking and start answering – then they get annoyed that I’m “interrupting” them. (I don’t really get how it can be interrupting if they aren’t actually talking – apparently I’m supposed to magically know that they have another sentence brewing up inside them).

      Is there any chance that you are speaking so slowly that it makes people want to finish your sentences? Or pausing for so long that you are giving the impression that you have finished speaking?

      I’ve seen lots of stuff online about how Interruping is a Male thing and women are the ones who get interrupted. But I’m a woman working with mostly men and I’m definitely the interrupter of the group.

      Personally I think it’s about how big your family was growing up. I have what feels like perfectly normal conversations with people from big families – we both speak probably about the same amount – but when I’m in a conversation with an only child they can barely get a word in edgewise and I have to literally bite my tongue to force myself to wait for the end of their interminably slow sentences.

      I am working on this – and when I’ve had enough sleep I am able to concentrate on letting other people speak, even when they speak really slowly. But when I’m tired or frustrated or distracted, I don’t even notice myself doing it.

    5. tab*

      As a women in engineering, I feel your pain. I have a thick skin, and a sense of humor, so I used the line (stolen from the sitcom, Friends), “Lips still moving, not done talking!” It always worked, but probably didn’t make me very popular. Fortunately, popularity was not my goal…

  171. Delta Delta*

    I’ve been in business on my own for 2 years. I just returned today from my first real vacation in years. I didn’t work during my vacation except to respond to a couple emails, which took no time at all. I was in a horribly toxic job for about 10 years before this and it was always understood that everyone would always work through vacations (respond to email, return phone calls). It was never relaxing and was always stressful. For 10 years I didn’t relax or unwind or unplug. I hated vacations because I was always on. It was wonderful to just enjoy myself and recharge. Viva vacation!

  172. epistats13*

    I’m having a bit of trouble keeping perspective, and would love some thoughts and advice. I’m pregnant and have hyperemesis-which basically means that I’m in the bathroom vomiting at least once an hour. I know I don’t have the worst case of hyperemesis out there- so far (I’m 18 weeks) I’ve avoided a PICC and a feeding tube, but I feel like it’s really starting to impact my ability to work. I work in a hospital luckily so I’ve been able to be hydrated 4x a week at work which has saved me so far. I can work from home, but it’s rare in my position to actually do so, so when I do on days that I absolutely cannot leave the house for a commute, there’s lip service to it being okay from my coworkers but then they refer to it as me being ‘out’ that day for the rest of the week. I think some of it is different backgrounds- I have a data background and they are all former nurses, but we do the same job and I’m perfectly able to do it from home. My boss is fine with me working from home in theory but also looks for me to be in the office as much as I can be. I want to be a good colleague to my coworkers, and I haven’t let anything slip or get behind so far, but I am worried that as I’m entering the 14th week of being unable to keep down any food or liquid my concentration is faltering and I’m exhausted. If you’ve had any condition like this, how did you keep working? What did you do to make sure you’re a good coworker and that you are staying on top of work? Any experience with a coworker who had this and things they did or didn’t do that I should either try to do or definitely not do?

    1. SpaceNovice*

      Go to your doctor about your symptoms again. If your doctor blows you off, find another immediately. Once an hour is WAY TOO MUCH. Your case isn’t the worst case, no, but it’s definitely up there! Anything over a handful of times a day is way too much. You’re not getting adequate nutrition and it’s going to mess with your body something fierce, so no wonder why you’re having issues with concentration and exhaustion! It’s actually startling that you’ve been able to do as much as you have, and it’s commendable you want to work through it… but you need to absolutely raise holy hell to get the doctor to take it more seriously. F#ck your workplace right now; your health comes first and that’s absolutely not okay that you’re suffering that much.

    2. Thlayli*

      there are actually treatments available but most doctors even most obstetricians don’t know about them. Check out hyperemesis for org (or search helpHER) for a very useful website. It has links to studies on drugs for docs to read, and a medication strategy brochure you can print out and give to your doc.

      Hyperemesis is such an awful condition I know someone who literally quit her job over it. It’s so annoying that there are actual treatments available but often not prescribed. The problem is that it’s very hard to get permission to do medical tests on pregnant women (and rightly so) so there are very few drugs that are proven to be safe in pregnancy. Most of the drugs listed on the website are “class b” – they tested them on pregnant animals and found no bad effect on fetus, but has not been tested on pregnant humans.

      I hope you can find some treatment that works for you – do check out the website.

      In relation to the question you actually asked – screw your coworkers. They are being jerks, don’t worry about what they think. Your boss has given you permission to wfh – do so if you need to.

      2. SpaceNovice*

        +1 to this. I’ve never been through this myself, but I’m so glad to see this information here.

    3. anonagain*

      I can’t help with pregnancy specific issues. I’ve worked from home for chronic illness/disability issues though. I just left a job where the situation really fell apart.

      Here are some things to consider:
      -Keep meticulous logs of when you work and what you accomplish during that time.
      -If you have any work/forms/etc. to submit to people on your team, try to send them during work hours when you are at home.
      -If you have a question for a team member (or your boss) that can be a phone call, call if you are physically up for it. I used to email people multiple things during work hours and then the next day they would say something about how I was out the day before. I was working from home full time eventually, so I had a low threshold for calling people on days we didn’t have meetings.
      -If you have any kind of chat program, staying signed in (even signed in and set to busy) can reinforce for people that you were at work.
      -Check in with your boss.

      Also, I think if someone says something about you being out it’s okay to correct them. I would say something like, “Just to be clear, I was working yesterday. I didn’t take the day off. I just want to make sure you know that you can still contact me about [project] on days when I am working from home.”

      Work from home feels a bit like playing peekabo with a toddler. People act like just because they can’t see you working, it means you aren’t working.

      To be clear, if taking time off completely is what you need to do and it’s something you can do, I think that’s the right thing, obviously. These are just suggestions for if you have decided to keep working.

    4. CurrentlyLooking*

      I actually went on short term disability for 3 weeks (twice – 2 pregnancies) during the worst weeks of having hyperemisis. I just could not make it to the office and be productive during that time. (Work from home was not an option.)

      Hyperemisis is a medical condition – please give yourself permission to take care of yourself

  173. Changeling*

    I share a desk with 2 other people. As my job is 90% not desk work, it usually not a problem. And on the rare times more than one of us wants to use the desk at the same time, we just use one of the other shared desks in the office.

    But, one of the people I share the desk with is particular. She doesn’t like to share. We aren’t allowed to write on the big desk calendar she has on the desk. She doesn’t like us to put anything in the drawers. The desk faces a window, so myself and the other person we’re putting our paperwork on the wide windowsill. But, the day before she went on medical leave she absolutely cleared the top of the desk and the window. We still can’t find half of the stuff we had. She regularly clears the desktop.
    A couple weeks ago, I had a stack of papers on the corner of the desk disappear overnight. Because I was busy the next day and didn’t anticipate seeing her, I left a note asking her to put them back. They were put back. And stayed there.
    2 days ago, I printed out several emails that I would need to reference and left them on the desk, so I could grab them when I had a few minutes to make phone calls. The next day they were gone. It was past 5 when I noticed, and I didn’t come in until 10 the next day, at which point she would probably be unreachable. So I again left a note asking for my papers to be put back, plus a reminder that we share the desk and that she please respect that.
    She took the note to our supervisor, and cried that I was bullying her. I have been called into our director’s office, and talked to. And will need to sit down with coworker and talk this over. Coworker cries if you look at her sideways, so she will cry no matter what I do or say.

    But I need help coming up with some scripts that don’t sound too frustrated, or BEC, even though I am, so I don’t look like the bad guy when she cries

    1. Trout 'Waver*

      No scripts, but take the attitude that it’s a solvable problem you’re all going to work together to solve. Figure out exactly what you need a desk for and ask for those things. No finger pointing, blaming, or starting any sentence with “Coworker did…..”. Focus on your needs and assume that everyone wants to work together and provide those needs for you and your coworkers.

    2. HyacinthB*

      I agree with the other reply that you should take the attitude that this is solvable and you aren’t pointing fingers. Would it be possible for you to each have at least one drawer (preferably lockable) to call your own? That way you can put things away when you are not at the desk. As far as not writing on calendars… I think there should be items designated as communal and not communal. I desk share but we are not in on the same days. I believe that anything left on the desk is communal. She leaves Lysol wipes out, and I use them to wipe down surfaces. I leave pens out and she uses them. But we have designated rolling cabinets that lock and are for our stuff so no work product is ever left out.
      But mostly the meeting should be about “how can we solve this to everyone (especially the company’s) benefit” and not about what a cry baby she is. Although… sheesh…. I’m not a cryer so it’s hard for me to understand people crying at work, especially over this!!!

    3. SpaceNovice*

      Sounds like all of you need to have some sort of paper sorter or something that each person puts their papers in. Label the slots with each of your names. Maybe let her pick the style out of a number of choices so that she feels like she’s in control. There’s suggestions above if you need more space than that.

      Also: she sucks.

    4. Thlayli*

      The logistical problem is easily solvable as others have said – each of you gets one drawer (assuming you have a 3-drawer pedestal). Or you get an in-out type tray with three drawers and you each get one. Or theee folders.

      The problem of her being an utter idiot is thankfully not yours to solve, so just focus on solving the logistical problem. Maybe write down the possible options as bullet points and start off meeting by saying “I’ve come up with a list of possible solutions” let her read them and ask her which system she thinks would work best. Don’t discuss the emotional aspects at all and if she cries just ignore it and push on through.

    5. Anon for now*

      You really do need to sit down and work this out. Come at it from the angle of trying to figure out a way to keep the shared space neat and clean while also being able to find your paperwork. See if the other coworker who shares the desk can also be a part of the meeting. Maybe a paper tray with three levels could help.

    6. Free Meerkats*

      Let her cry. That’s her problem, not yours.

      Approach it as a problem to be solved, dispassionately. While I would tend to being blunt to the point of rudeness, don’t do that. But don’t cave to her emotional blackmail either.

    7. LilySparrow*

      “I rarely use printouts, but when I do, it’s because those papers are necessary to my work. It’s important that I can find them, and not have them removed or hidden. What do you think is a workable solution for that?”

    8. foolofgrace*

      Oh man, I would SO be marking up that calendar! That’s one of my big productivity tools — marking on the big desk blotter calendar. For giggles, each day could be separated into three zones so everyone would have 1/3 of each day. Kidding, sort of.

  174. Outta Here*

    This comment is purely for entertainment purposes. :) I am leaving my toxic job next week (yay!) and my manager has asked for my help screening applicants for my replacement. The position is just a step below management, and requires quite a bit of education and/or experience – it is in no way entry level. We had a phone screen today with an experienced applicant and here’s how it went:
    *We call the applicant*
    My boss: Hi, Applicant. How are you today?
    Applicant: (obnoxious shuffling phone noises): Well, I’m about to get wet. [It’s been raining non-stop in our area this week.]
    My boss (while giving me a shocked look): Oh ok, do you need a minute to get inside?
    Applicant: Yeah, hold on. (excessive obnoxious shuffling noises) So what did you want to talk about today?
    My boss: (blah blah) Why don’t you walk me through your recent work history?
    Applicant: Well, I was at X job for a few years, but they weren’t paying me enough. I have a lot of student loans and the money just wasn’t there. Then I moved to my last company, but I had to pull the upper management into the conference room and give them the what-for. They just weren’t doing anything right. And I’ve been at my new company for a few months but it’s just very poorly managed and my boss delegates everything to me.

    (At this point my boss gives me a thumbs-down). Total interview time: about 10 minutes. The only time he sounded excited is when I told him there’s typically very little overtime in this position.

    Yep, this guy pretty much said everything you’re not supposed to say in an interview. His overall tone was bored, annoyed, and negative. But the buzz words on his resume were awesome, and his work history looked really solid. Score one for phone interviews!

      1. Anon for now*

        Yeah. That first part would be reasonable if he were not expecting a call and was caught at a bad time. Otherwise it is…not great. The rest there is no excuse for.

        1. HyacinthB*

          Hysterical, as someone else noted! I called someone to arrange an interview and she was a little like this but at least I knew she wasn’t expecting my call!

      2. Outta Here*

        Yes, it was a scheduled interview. His question about what we wanted to talk about threw me for a loop immediately! That and the fact that he asked us to call a few minutes late so he could get to a private location, then when we did, he still wasn’t ready. Sheesh.

  175. In Confidence*

    I’m a regular commenter here, but given the sensitivity of what I’m asking about, want to go anon for the protection of others. I’m hoping to get some input from folks with experience in the mental health area, and I’ll also warn that the subject matter here may be triggering so please be advised.

    Recently, an employee that I manage went AWOL, which is extremely out of character. A couple of days later, the employee surfaced to inform me that they’d been hospitalized after a suicide attempt. This is a situation I’ve never had to deal with before (as a manager or otherwise), and I want to do everything I can to be maximally supportive of my employee while they’re away and after they return.

    Thus far, I’ve done what feels like the obvious stuff – I got the ball rolling on protected time off, I’ve kept the employee’s confidence about the whole sitch (i.e., everyone else hears “out unexpectedly, open-ended on return”), and made sure that open work was reassigned. I’ve also (hopefully) made it clear to my employee that they have my full support to take as much time as they need and their job is ready waiting for them when they feel up to returning. Along that line, I’m obviously not pressing for details and letting my employee take the lead on what they feel comfortable sharing.

    That said, while I don’t have any personal experience with this, I’m aware enough to know that there isn’t necessarily a one-size-fits-all approach for how to help someone come back to work after something like this. I fully intend to take my cues from my employee as the person best-placed to know what helps and what doesn’t, but I’d appreciate the commenteriat’s thoughts on what else I should keep in mind along the way. My sole concern is my employee’s well-being, and the last thing I want is to do or say something harmful out my ignorance.

    1. H.C.*

      I think what you’re doing so far is great; also, if your workplace also have an employee assistance program or mental health benefits (one of my ExJobs offers x hours of free, confidential counseling a year) – you may also provide that information to your employee (with no pressure to use, obviously).

      However, depending on the length of employee’s absence, you may have to loop in HR and/or your boss to determine next steps for determining leave, redistributing workflow, etc. Also, when your employee is ready to return to work, you should set aside some time before/on 1st day to discuss what to communicate about their absence, and what support/accommodations can you or the workplace offer.

    2. Catwoman*

      Something similar happened to me with a student before. It sounds like you’re doing really well so far. I think it’s worth asking the employee when they get back to work what kind of support you can offer and letting them know about any mental health HR benefits they may or may not be aware of (My university offers counseling for staff and faculty up to 5 visits a year.). I think the best thing to do in these scenarios is to make it clear that you are supportive, but also to treat the employee as normally as possible. You aren’t their therapist and are absolutely right to let them take the lead. Some people may want to talk about their experience and others may just want to get back to work and act like nothing ever happened.

    3. amanda_cake*

      Thank you for being a good boss.

      The best thing you can do is continue to be supportive. Tell the employee is they need something that you can accommodate to let you know. I don’t have a lot of advice since I haven’t been in this situation.

    4. SpaceNovice*

      Sounds like you’ve got a good start for not having dealt with it before. There might be resources online that you can find about how to support your employee. Your support does mean a lot, and your employee is incredibly lucky to have you as their boss. Keep on being good, and I wish them the best of luck.

    5. Good, Cheap, or Soon. Pick Two.*

      Honestly, you’re doing exactly the right thing. You’re giving her the support she needs in a low pressure way. That’s an amazing gift when someone’s going through that. I know you’re probably in the US (so am I) but the best resources I can think of for you to look at are actually run out of the UK and AUS. They have pretty good sites for support networks of people going through mental illness. Mind.org from the UK has a site specifically for employers. Sane out of AUS has a good one as well and so does HeadsUp also out of AUS.

  176. Anonymous to Protect the Embarrassed and Potentially Tacky*

    I think I may know the answer to this but…

    I do reference calls for an enterprise level of software that we use at a rate of about one every other month. I genuinely enjoy using the software and doing the calls isn’t a huge disruption to my schedule. Occasionally, the sales rep will “thank” me with a generous gift card (usually in the $50-$100 range) after the call. While I don’t do this specifically for that perk and I don’t inflate my review of the software in order to get it, I still like it!

    Recently I did a reference and the sales rep asked if he could get lunch for our team (logistically not feasible) or send me a gift card for a national coffee chain, which I said would be lovely and he made it sound like he would be sending it over directly. Reference call came and went a few days later, nothing. At this point it has been a week. My question is how tacky is it to follow up with a sales person you do a reference for about a “thank you” if it has been previously offered. I’d NEVER email saying “Where’s my gift card???” But since it was explicitly discussed and it hasn’t come…does that even make a difference? FWIW I did check spam and other potential hiding places.

    1. Lupin Lady*

      It will likely take a while, they might not send it until the end of the month. But if you don’t get it my instinct would be to not say anything, because it’s a perk, not an obligation. So no, don’t say anything, but don’t give up hope either.

    2. Anon for now*

      Nope. Do not ask about it. Assume that they forgot or changed their mind and be pleasantly surprised if it does show up.

    3. SpaceNovice*

      It definitely sucks to not get the thank you card, but since it’s not technically REQUIRED, there’s not much you can do. I can understand why you want to follow up, but it’s definitely a perk that is a happy bonus, not one to be expected. (So yes, it would be incredibly tacky–which is why you’ve got good instincts.) Still totally normal to be annoyed about it, though.

    4. Serious Sam*

      Is it possible that there is only budget for rewarding you once they close the sale? There will be no reward if the sale is lost, or delayed because of the late introduction of some other decision maker at the would-be client.

  177. lapgiraffe*

    Longtime reader here but got a call from a friend today with some major work questions I wanted to float by the commentariat. My friend works in a small retail store that has one other employee and the owner. She’s been there several years and there are weird boundaries that come too easily in some businesses. She’s not been happy for a while but, like so many of us, she’s tethered to some golden handcuffs – the owner pays 100% of her health insurance. She’s been looking for other work but so far no luck.

    A few years ago she was injured on the sales floor. The other employee dropped a glass product that shattered and sent a big hunk of glass across the room and onto my friend’s shin. It was bloody and messy, but my friend is the quintessential retail martyr who opted to suck it up and finish the shift rather than seek immediate medical attention. She thought it was a pretty gnarly gash but it seemed good enough to forgo any other treatment, until a few months later an intense pain showed up. Over the course of a few years she’s seen a few different doctors and it’s been established that a tendon was severed and then rolled up and calcified in scar tissue. That’s painful for anyone, but add to it working non her feet for 45-55 hours a week plus being an active young person in a city with no car. She’s finally found someone who might be able to fix it but has come up against strong resistance from her boss, the owner.

    She’s thinking she should file for workman’s comp but he’s given her a lot of pushback, including emailing her an outline of just how much financial damage it would cause him/the business. He even told her that if she did this, it would not only ruin the 100% healthcare coverage for herself but also for her colleague. He has not, however, offered any sort of under the table “I’ll cover this privately,” nor has he outright threatened her job. He’s (so far) sticking with the intense emotional/guilt trip appeal.

    She’s so wracked with a combination of guilt and stress and anxiety and just all the bad feelings, unsure of what to do. I told her to seek out either a govt rep or labor lawyer to figure out her options, but any other advice on how to proceed?

    1. SkyePilot*

      Ugh. When you offer to cover 100% of something, then you have to take into consideration that could be something BAD. What if she had been in a car accident? Would he have still guilt tripped her? Realizing this is easier said than done, I’d be moving forward and trying to find another job… maybe if she is persistent the “under the table” option will be proffered.

      1. Flowergirl*

        Hi all, I’m the friend in question. Your responses to my besties post have been really helpful. It makes me feel reassured to know that I’m not being unreasonable in my reaction to how my boss is handling this situation. Thanks for the insight. I plan to sleep my information to myself, get paper documentation of all treatment, dates of referrals to specialists from the PCP, etc, and try and be prepared for the “investigation” that the insurance company is launching to determine the “validity” of my case. At the moment I feel pretty betrayed by my boss, though Suppose I am foolish to expect an employer to have my best interests at heart vs. $$$. I am seeking treatment, preparing myself for the possibility of surgery, and looking for a new job but moving forward I do ultimately believe regardless of what ends up happening in this position I need this documented as a work related injury so that if it haunts me for the rest of my life I may be able to find compensation. If anyone has any online resources they can recommend for educating myself on the complexities of workman’s comp I would approach it, I have tried to do some research myself and it’s exhausting and complicated and I don’t know what I can trust. Anyway, thank you!

    2. Delta Delta*

      If friend is in the US she needs to file for workers’ comp. In most jurisdictions it is her exclusive remedy for workplace injuries. She needs to talk to a comp lawyer about what to do and how, as every state has different rules. Also, the company likely needs to have comp insurance in order to operate. Hopefully, for her sake, that’s there if the claim is accepted (yeah, that’s a separate issue) and could pay for future medical and any lost time.

    3. ContentWrangler*

      She should get the operation or what she needs done to get it fixed. Talking to a labor lawyer on what to do if her boss retaliates is a good idea but she absolutely should insist on getting the medical treatment she needs. Her job offers health insurance as an incentive for her to work there. Threatening her to try to prevent her from using that benefit is ridiculous and underhanded.

      It can be really scary to have the person who pays threatening your livelihood. But she has to think long-term. If she doesn’t get her leg fixed, it will likely get worse, possibly limit what jobs she can do in the future, and just make her overall quality of life bad. And it’s better to get it fixed ASAP. As someone who’s had extensive foot surgeries, you usually recover and respond way better to treatment the younger you are.

    4. SpaceNovice*

      Yeah, definitely contact a labor lawyer. He probably is legally required to pay for it. But regardless of what she decides–she’s going to have to leave his employment. It’s either she finds a better job and gets it looked at or she faces potentially dire health consequences. That’s totally NOT okay. If he had entered into a group insurance plan with other small businesses, then he wouldn’t be “financially ruined” by this. You don’t mess with these sorts of things.

    5. LCL*

      Labor lawyer is a great idea. LL will ask her why she hasn’t filed for WC, and tell her to do so. LL will also clearly lay out her employer’s and WCs obligations.
      What you might tell her is, if the business is that close to the edge that one claim will result in having to cut benefits because they can’t afford it, that this will happen sooner or later anyway. Or owner is just trying to guilt trip her. Either way, she must file for WC.

      1. LCL*

        (since I can’t edit I’m adding)
        You should also tell your friend to stop talking to the owner about this. He shouldn’t know all of these details of what she is going to do. His part in this is to cooperate with the state agency when they do their investigation.

    6. Lynay*

      If I got injured at work my manager would 100% insist I went to A&E, the fact that your friend was allowed to stay at work and that it’s caused permanent damage is alarming. I am wondering if the owner has violated any local health and safety laws and knows it and is trying to avoid a paper trail.

      1. Thlayli*

        That’s only relevant if owner was working that day though. It sounds like it was just Friend and the other employee on and she brushed it off as no big deal

  178. DrWombat*

    2.5 months at new job, and went back to officially graduate/walk last week! It’s starting to sink in that I’m actually a PhD, but imposter syndrome is still hitting hard. This new job is still a big change from what I’ve been doing the past 5 years, and while I like it, there’s still a lot of moving pieces to keep track of and we’re in a really hectic time. I made a judgement call that was wrong the other day and while my boss said learn from it and move on, I still felt like a failure.

    I guess I feel like I should have more stuff handled right now and despite the fact that my mom keeps reminding me that PhD doesn’t stand for Perfect Human Degree, I still worry I’m not doing ok. It just feels like everything is really overwhelming. My insurance kicks in soon and I am hoping to find a therapist but I just really want to figure out if I am doing ok because it feels like there’s still some things I’m having a hard time getting the hang of or doing quickly and well. I am the perfectly wrong combo of perfectionist and people-pleasing, but this is also my first real job, and I just want to do my best. Anyone have tips?

    1. Emily S.*

      Definitely look into finding a therapist who’s a good fit, once you have your insurance (it might take a couple tries).

      Otherwise: work on being kinder to yourself. You’ve worked very hard to achieve something that is pretty amazing. And now you’ve got a good position, which is often quite difficult for new grads. Good work!

      Obviously, there’s a learning curve with any new job, so it might be a while before you feel better about your abilities there — but it sounds like you have a pretty good manager. That’s great.

      The vast majority of people who start new jobs are never going to “hit the ground running.” It’s going to take more time to learn the ropes, so cut yourself some slack. Take detailed notes (you probably do this already!) as you learn things, and then review your notes when you have downtime. Ask questions when you don’t get something.

      With time, it will get better. But you have to believe in yourself, and your abilities. You’ve got this!

      1. DrWombat*

        I don’t have my insurance card yet but I did find a therapist who looks like she might be a good fit and was able to make an appt for about 3 weeks from now (there is sooner available but we were warned our insurance cards will be delayed a bit because of the new system). Thanks for reminding me to go for it! She says online she does a lot of work with LGBT clients, so fingers crossed.

        My boss is great, it’s just hard to tell tone over text and also she’s under a lot of stress right now so I am still learning to gauge tone I guess. And everyone is really swamped right now, it’s the crazy season and everything seems due at once. But thanks for the reassurance!

        1. Emily S.*

          I have one more suggestion, if you’re interested. There’s a site called Lynda.com that has a ton of online video classes, and I’ve taken some good ones. My library offers free access, so try that, or you can do a free trial.

          One especially good class is on Managing Stress, with a teacher named Todd Dewett. I found this to be super-helpful. It’s just very straightforward on how to manage stress, and have a decent work-life balance, etc. And it’s only 20 mins long. (I also really liked his class on Managing your Time, VERY helpful.)

          https://www.lynda.com/Business-Skills-tutorials/Managing-Stress/165497-2.html

    2. Vitamin C*

      I graduated with my PhD about 2.5 years ago and even though I was doing almost exactly the same thing at work as I was at grad school, it still took me a while to get spun up and used to the different work environment and policies and the like. The impostor syndrome was strong! At 2.5 months in, of course you’re not going to know everything. It’s okay to cut yourself some slack and acknowledge the fact that you’re going to make mistakes. You’re not the first new person your boss has worked with, most likely – they know it will take you some time to get on top of things, and if they’re a reasonable person, they won’t hold it against you. Give yourself some time, talk to your therapist, etc. You can do this! (And you probably know this already, but something that really helped me was keeping a list of cognitive distortions handy so I could remind myself that things in reality weren’t necessarily how I was perceiving them.)

  179. Argella Durrandon*

    It finally looks like I’ll be able to quit my failing, super badly managed company! I’ve been getting interviews, but now I have the super first-world-problem of having to juggle offers.
    I interviewed with Company A earlier this week, it’s a dream job and the conditions and salary would also be great. They got back to me a few days later saying that the next step in the process would be a (paid) assignment, after which they would be able to give me a decision.
    On the same day, I interviewed with Company B. They’re a client of my current employer but I’ve never worked directly with them (one of my co-workers is working with them right now as an external consultant), which they are aware of. The pay is good, the work is alright but I’m not super excited by their product. They emailed me yesterday saying they would call me today to give me an offer. I will try to get them to give me a few days to a week to think about the offer (which is reasonable considering I have to figure out whether my non-compete is actually applicable), mostly because I want to see if I can get an offer from Company A. I plan to send the assignment today and mention the other offer in the email, asking them for a bit of visibility on the timeline.
    I know from my co-worker that Company B is looking to fill the post very quickly, so I fear they might pressure me a bit with regards to an answer. I’m a bit overwhelmed because I’ve never been in this situation before.

  180. KB*

    A friend of mine keeps venting to me about this problem, so I’ll see if y’all have any input.

    The receptionist at Friend’s job is pregnant and planning to take a couple months of maternity leave soon. Receptionist has confided in Friend that she does not plan on returning to work, but has not yet told anybody else. For the past few weeks, Receptionist has been leaving work a couple hours early each day, so Friend and another coworker have been splitting front desk duties, which consists of lots of admin work as well as answering the phones and working with visitors to the office. Friend is already stressed balancing her own workload with another’s for a couple hours a day, and says thing have already slipped through the cracks. Management has said that rather than hire a temp, Friend and another coworker will be responsible for fulfilling Receptionist’s duties while she is on leave, meaning that Friend and Coworker will have to take turns sitting at the front desk and performing those duties in addition to their own obligations. Friend is particularly upset because she knows Receptionist is not returning and Management will eventually have to hire a new receptionist anyway. Of course, she does not want to give away information about Receptionist that Receptionist is not ready to share herself.

    Any ideas?

    1. Aardvark*

      She should start by talking to her boss and asking for their assistance prioritizing her tasks. If things are slipping through the cracks, she can use that as a starting point. Are there tasks they want her to stop doing in order to cover the front desk? Or should her work take precedence over the front desk and admin duties? Do they expect the balance of this to change when the admin goes on mat leave? How long are they willing to have these things take a lower priority? Can they commit to revisiting the balance at that time?
      Are her bosses thinking that she can do her normal duties while she covers reception? If they are and it’s not working out, can she outline why that’s not possible? (Confidential information on a public computer, needing to make her own calls, dealing with walk-ins breaks focus, that sort of thing)
      Clarifying priorities and expectations and setting an end date sidesteps the “will the receptionist return” question.

    2. Rusty Shackelford*

      Has Friend already said “If you add X to my plate, you need to decide whether I drop Y or Z, because I can’t do all three?”

    3. HyacinthB*

      Friend can’t know for sure that Receptionist won’t return, even though R has said as much… things change. But what she can do is tactfully explain how taking on these duties, even split with someone else, is causing a burden to them both and ask again for them to consider a temp. As you and Friend know, temp may become perm, which could be a win for a lot of people. I think the key though is to come armed with lots of info about how splitting the Receptionist duties impacts their work, and the company. (So basically make the argument that it is in the company’s best interest to get a temp.)

    4. Anon for now*

      Whether or not the receptionist comes back is irrelevant to the actual issue. The problem is that the boss is asking for an unrealistic amount of work. Friend needs to have a conversation with them about which tasks are going to be dropped until they have a full time receptionist again (either a temp, current receptionist back from leave or new receptionist).

    5. Thlayli*

      She needs to forget about receptionists role in this, and also stop trying to figure out how to solve the problem of workload. It’s bosses problem to solve. All your friend has to do is figure out how much time she needs to do each of her tasks as well as receptionists tasks and go to boss and say “since I will be spending x% of my time on reception work, I need to drop some other tasks. Here’s a list of my responsibilities and how long they take, let me know which I should prioritise. If she and her coworker do this together – all the better.

      Hopefully boss will realise that 2 people cannot do 3 people’s work for a couple of months and hire a temp. If boss chooses to be a skinflint and just let things slide for 2 months then that’s bosses prerogative, but boss is the one who decides what gets bottom priority, not your friend.

      1. Thlayli*

        Also may be worth mentioning that one of the many reasons receptionist is usually a full-time Role is because when you get interrupted it typically takes 15 mins to get back “in the zone”

  181. D.W.*

    One of our staff sent out a calendar invite for “alumni gatherings”, for the purpose of current and former employees meeting and socializing. It seems rather out of left field because 1) this staff person has been with the organization for only one year and 2) it just seems weird to me. Thought, it may just be me.

    Do other people have this practice in their offices?

    1. Sam Foster*

      Never heard of it, but, I say file this under Circus, monkeys, Not Mine. For all you know this person was ordered or voluntold to do it by a senior person.

  182. HowardComment*

    File this under Circus, monkeys, Not Mine.
    Friend can’t say anything. Receptionist may change mind, and until she quits, employer may need to avoid taking any steps that look like they are firing someone for taking maternity leave.

  183. Wombats for All*

    I need some advice. My Grand Boss has repeatedly displayed a very concerning lack of respect about my profession. He has said things in the past that leads me to believe he not only has no clue about what it is I do but also has a very outdated notion of the profession. Think along the lines of all admins do is answer the phone and make coffee all day long. My direct manager and other senior staff have witnessed this several times but there’s always that moment of shocked looks but no one reacts. My DM is on shaky ground with GB and while sympathetic to me is just hanging on til retirement.

    I’m junior enough that all of my attempts to gently educate him have been brushed off. Other than repeatedly hitting over the head with a clue x 4, how do I educate him and influence up? Is it possible?

    For what its worth we’re in an academic environment and yes I’m searching but it’s going slow.

    1. foolofgrace*

      It doesn’t sound like speaking up will do much good. I’d just shake it off — it’s only one person, it’s not like there are a lot of people disparaging your work.

  184. Leah MBAMSIS*

    I just found out that I am transitioning from one consulting project to another & there will be a 2 week gap between them.

    Any suggestions on what to do with this time?

    My plan so far is just to do training

    1. foolofgrace*

      Gad, the choices! Clean out your closets. De-clutter your home. Clear the kitchen cabinets. Or, go to movies in the afternoon — I love deserted theaters. Kick back and relax, read some good books, binge-watch some Netflix. Experiment with new recipes, especially things you can take to work for lunches.

  185. Anon Accountant*

    This morning one of our summer “interns”/temp summer hire was complaining about we’re hard to work for. She was banned from working on the floor with the c-level executives for some things she said.

    I want to tell her “your attitude won’t take you far and it reflects badly on you to have been banned from working on a FLOOR where executives are because you offended them”.

    I promise not to though.

    1. LCL*

      …of course we are dying to know what she said. But if you can’t say without outing yourself we get it.

      2. Anon Accountant*

        Sorry I had to run errands before coming back!

        She had been told her dresses and skirts were too short. She complained they “weren’t the fashion police” and that she was only there for the summer so she “shouldn’t have to buy a new wardrobe just to work there”.

        She said 1 manager “only comes in to do personal crap and leaves again”. The final offense was commenting “doesn’t Bob do anything”. Bob is the VP of Engineering.

        It’s almost impossible to be fired from this organization.

        1. Emily S.*

          Holy cow! That gal needs to get a clue about professional behavior and respect for colleagues.
          Good lord.

  186. Super stressed*

    super weird question – I just signed an offer letter last week. this week I’m applying for apartments, so pulled up my letter to send to the apartment i’m applying to. In doing so, I realized that when I scanned the letter back in when signing it, I didn’t scan the middle page – which incidentally has my salary
    Should I alert HR? They clearly missed the error, as well, and I’d hate something to go wrong because the scanned file doesn’t have the salary included. Or does it not matter?

    1. HyacinthB*

      I doubt it matters. If they require a signature, the signature page is all that really matters.

    2. Emily S.*

      You might just send an email over to the HR team to explain.
      It might not matter, but it’s probably best to ensure that your salary info is part of the document on file.

  187. Rosemary7391*

    Thanks a lot to the folks who answered my questions about relocating to the US for entry level software development jobs. That’s given me a lot of food for thought which is still churning away :) I realise I forgot to askabout one thing that has bothered me though – I’ve seen drug tests mentioned a few times around here. Is that actually a common thing in the US? For non driving/heavy machinery jobs? I think if I’d been asked that by a potential employer without warning my response would’ve been a full on British “I beg your pardon?” (by which I mean – I heard full well what you said and I probably shouldn’t swear at you) – the idea just seems utterly out there and insulting. So is that something I’d likely come across?

    1. Environmental Compliance*

      From my experience it’s really weirdly spotty. My husband got a hair drug test for an in-office *internship*, where I worked in two different state agencies for a few different positions that *did* require driving/machinery and never had to do a drug test at all.

    2. KR*

      I think it depends. So I don’t do dangerous work or drive a company vehicle more than a few times a year, but since our company has a strong safety focus and a lot of employees doing dangerous electric work so we drug test for pre employment and usually if the employee gets in a car accident or something on the job. Some employers take a strong anti drug stance complete with random anti-drug Measures. Or you get companies that don’t care. The most prevalent I’ve seen is a) the company doesn’t drug test but they make you sign a paper saying you understand the workplace is a drug free environment and you would consent to it if asked and if you refuse when asked they can terminate you for refusing, or b)the company will do a preemployment test, make you sign a paper like above, and won’t ever drug test you again unless you really make it nessecary. Weed is still illegal here federally and we’re a litigious country so I suppose companies think it protects them against lawsuits somehow if one of their employees does something bad that ends up being a result of drug use.

    3. Anon for now*

      I had to do a drug test for a non driving/machinery job. Some companies have a blanket policy of testing everyone rather than having to make a judgement call about who will or will not be doing something that makes it actually a safety issue.

    4. CAA*

      It varies. I have been drug tested before employment at two companies: a Fortune 100 firm, and a federal government contractor. I have worked at 5 other companies that did not drug test, though one was because of an acquisition. So really it’s 6 hiring processes, and 2 of them tested.

    5. Has Taken Drug Tests*

      Yes. I feel like most companies in my area tend to drug test more often than not, at least for initial hiring. (May be different for other areas, I am in the Northeast US). It is less common in software but still prevalent. I’m an intern working in software but my company (multinational and Fortune 500) has a policy where every new hire has to be drug tested (you are informed ahead of time at the job offer stage). However, I have some friends interning as software engineers at even more top tier companies this summer that pretty much mainly care that you can code/produce, and they did not have to be drug tested… however, they are on the west coast (Washington/CA), where it tends to be more liberal towards legalization and etc.

      1. Rosemary7391*

        Thanks for the answers folks.

        I should probably clarify – I’m not keen on legalization (although I appreciate practical solutions to problems might mean it makes sense) – I’m just astounded that this is accepted practice. Usually criminal matters are left to the police to detect and prosecute and I’m definitely not keen on the idea that employers routinely or randomly test to make sure I’m following the law and prosecute (by firing) with little in the way of due process.

        Re a hair drug test – peeing in a cup is undignified enough, but I am not letting anyone lop a chunk off my hair! That would take years to grow out fully – no way.

        1. AeroEngineer*

          Well, since the US is mostly at-will employment, the overall attitude towards firing (and keeping a job) is very different than that in say Europe. I work now in Europe, and actually the at-will part is a big reason I have not gone back to the US, as I have many friends in my same field there and half are not secure in their jobs due to the at-will, not even considering the drug test aspect. In the US, this is not considered to be really a “criminal thing”, it is more that it is just part of the requirement to get an offer and keep the job. You can get fired for a lot less.

          US companies also like to cover their butts more it seems, probably since suing is more prevalent, so this is a way to try and prevent illegal activities ahead of time. It might be a relic of the past, but the basic reasoning is probably that they don’t want people to show up to work under the influence of any drug.

    6. Emily S.*

      I recommend being prepared for a drug test, even for an IT job. If it’s on the West Coast, they may not ask for a test. But here in the Midwest, my company tests everyone. And the previous company I worked for had a policy of drug-testing, and also forbade the use of any tobacco products (it was part of the test — seriously).

      So be aware that those kinds of policies are out there — you may or may not run into it.

    7. Tris Prior*

      It really depends. I live in a big liberal Midwestern city and have been drug tested exactly once over a 20-year career. It was for a design job at a large newspaper. Meanwhile, my friend who just found a job after a long search in a smaller, somewhat less liberal Midwestern city was tested for pretty much every office job she has ever had.

    8. Good, Cheap, or Soon. Pick Two.*

      For IT, it’s surprisingly more common than you’d think. Some companies are actually more worried about illicit use of ADHD meds than weed. So, be prepared to take a drug test… and be prepared to take a cheap, crappy drug test. This means keeping a list of all medications (including OTC medications) you have taken in the last month. You’ve probably heard the old “don’t eat poppy seeds” bit but you’re actually better off avoiding pseudoephedrine (Sudafed) and naproxen (Aleve). The first can return a false positive for amphetamines on very cheap drug tests and the second can return a false positive for pot in some people. I found this out when I had to go to bat for a great candidate who failed a drug test. It turned out he’d sprained his knee a few weeks before and was on a prescription level of naproxen. It returned a false positive and made him fail the drug test.

    9. LilySparrow*

      I’ve worked at several financial and law firms where I signed a form saying I understood I might be required to submit to a drug test, but never actually had to take one.

      Many US employers run credit checks and drug tests as a way of background checking prospective employees. It may not be the most efficient way, but I think the logic is that if you can’t go a few weeks without it while you’re job hunting, that’s a reflection on your decision making or reliability on the job. It’s common enough over here that it wouldn’t likely be a surprise to anyone who’s been in the working world for any time at all.

  188. The New Wanderer*

    Tomorrow is the one year anniversary of my layoff and I’m still on the job market. But I just found out I’m getting a patent granted! This is my fourth, and second as the sole inventor, though my previous company owns the patents. I do get a payout though, so that’s a bit of good news.

  189. Cat Herder II*

    So I just got a title bump at work (yay!). I was a Cat Herder I and now I’m a Cat Herder II, still on the same team and manager and projects. In theory the job duties for my new role are supposed to include larger-scale projects and some light mentoring-type duties for junior colleagues, but in practice I was doing that for most of the time I was a Cat Herder I. Which is all to say, I am doing my same job for more money and a nicer title.

    My question is, I’ve been applying to other jobs and I’m wondering if/when/how I should include this new title on my resume, since the new title is so recent. Is this format good or should I attempt to differentiate the roles more? How would you list the roles?

    BigCorp
    Cat Herder II, June 2018 – Present
    Cat Herder I, May 2014 – June 2018
    *accomplishment
    *accomplishment
    *accomplishment

    1. HyacinthB*

      Yes, I would include it just like that. I always keep my resume current regardless of how new the position is.

    2. Anony-miss*

      I do something similar to this with my role – I list my current title, and then the first bullet point on my resume is “Promoted from Teapot Assistant on X date”. I think this way looks good for showing that you grew/excelled at the role even if you don’t have discretely different job duties to point to

    3. CAA*

      If the title change is really along the lines of I to II, you can leave the numbers off altogether and just call yourself a Cat Herder, listing the promotion as an accomplishment if you want. Unless your industry is unusually standardized about this, the numbers are meaningless to anyone else.

      BigCorp May 2014 – Present
      Cat Herder
      *accomplishment
      *accomplishment
      etc
      *Promoted from Cat Herder I to Cat Herder II after demonstrating expertise in x, y, z.

      If the title change is more like “Journeyman Cat Herder” to “Supervisory Cat Herder” then it makes more sense to list them both with their individual dates because a short tenure in the supervisory role would explain why your accomplishments reflect the more junior role.

  190. Anony-miss*

    Hi all! I work in higher ed, and earlier this month I applied for a job in another department from mine that would be a step up from my current position. It was a stretch role, but my director suggested I would be a good fit and should apply. I heard back today from the hiring manager that they aren’t offering me a formal interview, but want to find time to meet to talk about my experience and what I’m looking for. I’m thrilled that I can get a chance to receive feedback about being a more competitive candidate – but I’m stumped for how to prepare for this meeting! It’s with someone who I know a little bit but not super well (i.e. we see each other at events around campus, have friendly chit chat but it’s only a few times a year versus other people I see multiple times a month). I was all set to use AAM’s interview prep guide, but how well does that transfer here?

    1. foolofgrace*

      Since you’re out of the running for the job, it sounds like they like you and want to have a conversation. It’s just a conversation about you. At least you know the subject matter! I find it helpful to tell myself that on interviews — it’s just a conversation.

  191. You don't know me*

    It late in the day so I don’t really expect any responses to this but here goes: I am searching for a part time work from home job that can be done in the evenings or weekends and does not involve talking on the phone. Everything I’ve found so far seems to be a scam or out of my league. I’m reasonably good on a computer but one place wanted me to complete a one hour typing test. I could’t type for an hour straight no matter how much you paid me! Any leads on legit companies?

    1. HyacinthB*

      SCroll to the top of the comments. Someone asked a similar question and a few commenters mentioned one particular site that has a good reputation. I don’t know the site personally, and it sounds like there is a fee, but if they are legit and actually screen for viable remote work (which is what others said), then it is probably you’re best bet.

    3. WillowSnap*

      does not involve talking on the phone or typing
      That’s a bit hard.

      All I can think of is more creative type jobs like freelance writing/editing, design, photography or things like social media manager. Almost everything else I can think of in this area requires some sort of typing (medical coding, data entry) or phone support type stuff. There are virtual assistants, but that would entail hours you don’t want. I’ve heard of something called mystery shopping, but it’s probably a scam.

    4. LilySparrow*

      What type of skills do you have? Visual design? Financial?

      I’m trying to think of computer based work that doesn’t involve a lot of typing, and I’m a bit stuck.

      Are you a good editor or researcher? There are a number of topical blogs (like travel or personal finance) that use keword researchers to come up with topics, and editors to polish article content and add images, cross-links, and SEO. You’d need some familiarity with content marketing, but wouldn’t necessarily have to be a writer.

  192. Mustrum*

    So I interviewed for a job that I’m really excited about just under two months ago and a little over a month ago was really excited when they made me a verbal offer. We had some discussions about compensation and they brought me in to meet with some more senior people and now I’ve just been waiting.

    I totally get that it takes a while to get things together, but the HR guy who I communicate with has just been weirdly flaky. Twice I was told they’d get me something definitive in a day or two only to have that blow past. I’ve checked in once a week or so, trying not to pester without getting any information.

    On Wednesday the recruiter emailed me to ask if I had time to connect that day, so I shot back an email with some times that might work. I also mentioned that there was a two hour window where I was not available. He calls in the middle of that and leaves a voicemail saying to call back. He never answers the phone when I call, and doesn’t respond to my “sorry I missed you” emails.

    At this point I’m just assuming they changed their minds or something happened which is *fine* but why can’t they just let me know instead of just leaving me hanging like this. A few questions:

    * Am I wrong to be really irritated and this is actually normal?
    * Should I just send a blunt email asking if they’ve decided to go in another direction and to just let me know?
    * If this drags on without resolution for a while longer would it ever make sense to contact the hiring manager directly?

    1. SpaceNovice*

      That’s really irritating and not normal. People usually work around schedules to talk to you, especially when they want to bring you onto the team. There might be something internally going on that’s blowing the usual timelines. You could email them and say that you need to know what is going on, and it’s okay if there’s stuff that’s getting in the way of a final offer, but you need to know what the real timeline is. Probably some better way to word it.

      1. Mustrum*

        I keep trying (and failing) to come up with a polite way of asking if they’re no longer interested without sounding annoyed or desperate. The half hearted attempts to get in touch with no follow up are enough to keep stringing me along. Honestly, from my end it feels cruel. I know I’m overthinking it but still.

  193. CC*

    It’s Friday, so I have a question for AAM!*

    So before I worked at the Custom Teapot Shop, I worked at a…custom…Widget-Making Company. My whole department got indefinitely furloughed about three months ago, and I went to work at the Custom Teapot Shop so I could make ends meet and diversify my resume. My fellow widget-makers and I all got called in to a big meeting this past Monday where we got a production schedule for the upcoming 12 months and basically were told “We’ll have some more work coming up, but it won’t be able to keep as many people working full-time schedules as we have the past 3 years. That was a fluke. We’ll call as many of you as we can as soon as we have work available.”

    I already had a meeting scheduled for this coming Monday with our HR person, where we will discuss my options for health insurance once I lose my company coverage next June. I’ve also set up a meeting with the head of my department for Monday. All I’ve said is that I’d like to “have a chat” with her.

    Ideally what I’d like to happen at this meeting is:
    1) to tell her that while I’ve appreciated all the career growth and opportunities she’s given me in my time as widget-maker, I’ve decided it’s time for me to start exploring other industries (where people have things like PTO! and a regular paycheck! and a 401k!).
    2) Since the Widget Company is my first Real Job, I’ve always gotten great performance reviews from her, and I’ve taken on increasing amounts of responsibility while working there, I’d like to use her as a reference for my upcoming job search.
    3) Also, I feel an obligation to give her a heads up that my goal is to be employed as a Llama Groomer soon, so I won’t be available to be a team lead on this big widget project we have that’s due in February.

    I’ve never done this before. Is there a way to have this conversation in a way that won’t offend her or burn any professional bridges? If I were just transitioning to another company in the same industry, I’d just give notice, since people can see I worked at The Widget Company and know what that means. But since I’m career-changing, I’d like to have at least one reference on my resume be able to attest to the transferable skills I’ve acquired in the past 4 years as a widget-maker.

    *Thanks everyone who replied to my question last week and emphasized that we really, really need to start requiring deposits on our custom teapot orders. I also appreciate people reassuring me that there’s not much I can do in my current position to convince my boss to change her policies to better protect her business. I’m planning to shop some personal work around soon, figure out what our competitors are doing, and then present that to the boss and let her take it from there. I appreciate your feedback!

  194. Kitty Kai*

    Well, one of my former coworkers who had her last day last Friday gave me a heads up that her new company was hiring, and I applied. The owner called me the next day to set up an interview, which was this morning. I think things went well, could have been better. Its just my luck that a bout of insomnia has been hitting me all this week, so I wasn’t at my best. We’ll see how it goes!

  195. OldJules*

    Would you accept a lower salary in a new organization if the new work environment is supposed to be better? I’ve always thought no, but I wondered if anyone has done that and had a good experience with it.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I’ve done it a couple of days. No regrets. I mean, obviously I had to make sure the new salary could still let me pay my bills…

    2. AdAgencyChick*

      Depends on how much lower the salary and how much I hate the environment at my current job! I did take a small pay cut once when I couldn’t deal with my old job any more — but it was a small cut for a HUGE difference in my quality of life. (And I also knew what I was getting into, since I was leaving to work for someone I’d worked for before and had a great experience working with.)

      More recently, I was enticed by a job that would be a career change — out of advertising, with its many annoyances, and into doing full-time what I currently do as a passion project on the side. But once I saw the salary I could not do it. A dream job is not a dream if it won’t even pay your rent after taxes.

    3. Thlayli*

      Yes. I currently earn a bit less than I earned almost 10 years ago, but I get to go home on time, have way less travel, a short commute and a lot less stress.

    4. tab*

      I did it, and stayed at the company for over 20 years. The work was so interesting, and I got lots of opportunities to advance. I also made sure I got good raises every year. I wasn’t the only person who took a paycut to work there, and it was worth it.

    5. lopsided*

      I did it, and it was worth it. The benefits (health insurance in particular) actually made it closer to even, but I even had to negotiate up from their initial offer. Plus I was moving from low COL to very high COL — this was a choice I made in my job search anyways.

      The new role was a way better fit (since I switched careers) and I was able to get more responsibility and a pay raise within a year. It was completely worth it to me for my circumstances, but of course I would say to weigh it strategically! The work environment is a big factor, but even more is the opportunity to learn and grow and get those skills you’ll need for an even nicer resume the next time around.

  196. talking to a wall*

    By any chance, does anyone else have experience providing admin/management support to a medical staff who are a mix of hospital-employed and private-practice (or self-employed)? I’m trying to figure out how to improve communication between the administrative staff across the hospital, organization, and private practices. I have to communicate with many of them regularly but turnover is high for admins and since many don’t work for the same company, we’ve never met in person and probably never will, and I never know when they move on or when a new one is hired. I’ve proposed generic email accounts on our servers but have been told it’s not possible with our platform. Any ideas?

  197. Alinea*

    My laptop was forced to upgrade from Outlook 2010 to Outlook 2016. I’ve been able to avoid this for a year. I AM SO BUMMED!!!!!! Nooooooo, whhhhyyyy?!

    1. foolofgrace*

      I know you’re bummed, but why expend the energy when you have to just suck it up anyway. Is it that you don’t have the time or inclination to learn the changes? Just bite the bullet and move on. Spend the time you need to get up to speed and forget about it. Sorry.

      1. Courageous cat*

        What, we can’t complain about something trivial once in awhile? I’m sure they’ll move on in due time.

  198. Em from CT*

    So this one’s pretty mild but it’s been bugging me for a couple of weeks: am I going to look odd if I don’t have anything personal on my desk at work?

    I’m pretty minimalist; my job is 95% on the internet and 5% on the phone, so as far as I’m concerned all I need is my laptop and cell phone and I’m set. Give me an office coffee-maker and I’ve got all I need.

    I have two desks (I work out of two separate offices). At the location I’m at 4 days a week, the setup is purely utilitarian: there’s only one other guy on site, and his setup is like mine: computer, papers, pens, and that’s it.

    At the other office where I am 1 day a week, though, everyone there (hundreds of people) has personal items. Photos of their kids or cats, funny coffee cups, posters on their cubicle walls, action figure toys on the shelves, name plates in funny fonts… I guess it makes sense, since the office is sort of institutional drab and very nondescript otherwise.

    So part of me feels like I should bring in a photo or two to fit in, but it’s so not my style. I…just don’t have anything I want on my desk all the time. A plant would be nice, but…I’m only there once a week. And I literally don’t have tchotchkes.

    I know I’m overthinking this, but it’s interesting to me in the sense that this might be one of those unwritten rules of the office that nobody tells you. If I don’t have stuff on my desk, are people going to think I’m not settling in and am ready to be out the door? (I’m not, for the record, and have been there two years now.) I’m just interested in the things people do that turn into “rules”…

    1. Thlayli*

      Since you’re not there full time I don’t think people will think it’s weird at all.

    2. Anon for now*

      You are there 1 day a week. It is pretty understandable that your desk isn’t personalized too much. They probably just assume that you keep that stuff at your other desk. And at the other place you are in line with your coworker, so it isn’t weird. Don’t worry about it.

    3. miyeritari*

      If you’re only there for one week I think it’s fine that you don’t have stuff. Although, if you continue to feel weird, you could go buy a funny mug and/or some fake flowers.

    4. Trixie*

      I am full time in current role for three years and have next to nothing out on my desk except for a plant. I do have some guide sheets up for reference but that’s it. I find the minimalist feel calming and enjoy coming in every morning to a clean desk.

    5. Ghost desk*

      Are you me?? I’m in the exact same situation with two desks at two different offices. I also work at the more populated office less frequently, and a few people have actually commented on how baron my desk looks. I’m not much of a minimalist, but it just seems silly to decorate a desk that I spend so little time at. I’ve considered getting a fake plant just to mark my existence when I’m not there!

    6. Good, Cheap, or Soon. Pick Two.*

      You’re there one day a week. Nobody can reasonably expect you to decorate your desk. That being said, if you want a plant, there are options. You could do a nice succulent or use watering stakes that would release water slowly throughout the week.

      1. Thlayli*

        Good point – there are tons of plants that only need watering every two weeks. And indirect sunlight if you aren’t beside a window.

        1. Em from CT*

          Oh, thank you! This is a great idea. I hadn’t thought of succulents. I think I will get some plants for my desk!

    7. London Calling*

      I have very little on my desk – one, because a crowded desk makes me uncomfortable, and two, because the desks here are very small. It’s your desk, do what makes you happy. And really, if people have ‘rules’ for decorating desks, so what?

    8. Cheesesteak in Paradise*

      Although one day a week is perfect for caring for a desk plant since you can’t overwater it.

  199. Paquita*

    Advice needed please. I have the AAM from the library and I read the part that deals with this but some suggestions would be welcome. I want to apply for an internal position. It is in a different area altogether. Totally different from what I do now. Think llama grooming to alpaca breeding. Still camelid related. I have talked to the hiring manager informally already. Even though I don’t have all the desired experience he encouraged me to apply. However, my issue is what to tell my current supervisor. She will need to fill out part of the paperwork, no way around it. It is not a move up (maybe a little) and I don’t want her to think I am unhappy where I am. (I am not real happy right now but not desperate) When I have tried for other positions in the past I said it was because of the hours. I am not a morning person, tried to go second shift. Any good ideas? Sorry for the novel.

    1. foolofgrace*

      I’m not sure what the question is. If you’re interested in the other position, have your supervisor do the paperwork. If she asks you why, just say that ordinarily you aren’t looking for another position but this one came up and you’re interested in expanding your role or that you were especially encouraged to apply. That makes it sound like you’re happy where you are but want to contribute more.

  200. Uncertain interviewee*

    Should I interview for a job I don’t want?

    I’m trying to leave my current temp position into something more permanent. I applied for a Teapot Design position at a prestigious company that is very in line with my experience/interest, where I passed the first round of interviews. At the same time, my current supervisor also referred me to another position (Teapot Sales) at the exact same prestigious company. Head of Teapot Sales was very generous and squeezed me in for 1.5 hour long interview the very next day, despite their tight hiring timeline and despite knowing that I had already applied for a position with the Design department (probably as a courtesy for my current supervisor). Now, Head of Teapot Sales wants me to come in another a second round of 1.5 hour long interview – even though I firmly believe that I do not have the right qualifications and would not be happy in that position. I feel obligated to go simply because my current supervisor was the one who had set this up for me. I would be much happier spending time on the Teapot Design position as previously mentioned.

    What should I do? People tell me I should go to that second round of Teapot Sales interview to maintain my relationships with my current manager and the Head of Teapot Sales, but I really have no desire to spend/waste another 1.5 hours of their time.

    2. KX*

      Don’t go. Don’t pretend, and lie later, and don’t put yourself in a spot where they might hardsell/tempt you by making promises or convincing you to work in a job you really don’t want. Imagine accepting it, and THEN letting them down by leaving it!

      Start a conversation now, about how you were grateful for the chance to learn about the role, but based on what you learned, you don’t think it is a good fit for you because of this, this and this. And then who knows! Maybe they will correct some misunderstanding you have about the role. Maybe you will have more informal and informative conversation about it, and you will understand it better and think perhaps you are a fit for it. At that point, a second formal interview makes sense.

  201. Another Freelance Question*

    I’m a freelancer, just starting to work for a new client.

    When I first talked to them, they said they were looking for at least twenty hours a month, but would probably have at least full-time-equivalent work. I told them that I’m not looking for full-time, in part because I have other clients. (If I wanted full-time, I’d be looking for a staff position, with benefits.)

    I would like them to give me forty or fifty hours/month of work, depending on how much I’m doing with other clients. When I spoke to my contact yesterday, she said she’d like to be sending me fifteen to twenty hours per week. I told her that I was thinking more like ten to twelve, and she said she wasn’t sure that would be worth it for them in terms of training–it’s proofreading (and possibly editing in the future), with an assortment of finicky bits about house style.

    For the moment, I have the first couple of pieces to work on, and then we’ll see, but I’m looking for suggestions on how to push back without losing this client. I don’t *need* them as a client, but the work looks appealing and yes, I can use the money.

    1. Anon for now*

      I’m not sure you can. You have been clear about what you are able to do (10-12 hours per week) and they have been clear about what they would like to give you (full time equivalent) and the minimum that they would find worth while (15-20 hours). Sometimes there is a fundamental mismatch in requirements.

  202. Farrah Sahara*

    Over the past few years, I’ve taken several “Executive Education” courses at a local university. Some of these courses have been for 3 days, others have been for 2 weeks.

    The courses are specific to my industry (finance), but do not result in degree credits, a professional designation or an industry certification. They can, however, be counted towards ongoing professional development hours. Each course has been useful in different ways and has expanded my skill set in several areas.

    So here is what I’m trying to figure out: Where would I include these courses on my LinkedIn profile? Should these go under Education or Certifications? Each course participant received a certificate, but not an actual certification.

    I feel like this should be an easy answer, but searching on LI really wasn’t any help either! Any suggestions from the savvy AAM crowd?

    1. CAA*

      There’s a section called Courses under Accomplishments. I’d put this kind of thing there.

  203. Worried Wart Grad Student*

    I almost forgot to ask my question today!! I am trying to arrange a practicum for next semester and I’ve been in contact with a potential supervisor for it, but she has been extremely slow in replying (about a week between replies), which is fair because she’s busy. Anyway, I need to know by NEXT FRIDAY at the latest if this practicum is going to happen and I don’t know what to do. Is it okay if I send her an email? I forgot to tell her the due date of this in my initial email and I feel like an idiot, but I need to know. Is it okay to just let her know that if this is going to happen I need to have her agree to supervise me by the end of next week? We have until August to plan further details. I am so nervous and I feel so stupid for the way I went about doing this. If I don’t hear from her I won’t be able to do in the practicum in the fall, which is annoying… but I can try to do one in the spring, ugh.

    1. Thlayli*

      Send the email! You are seriously overthinking this! In fact I think it might even be better if you just pick up the phone!

    2. foolofgrace*

      Pick up the phone and “confess” — it’s not that big a deal that you left out the deadline. But the deadline is looming and she might not get around to reading your email in detail until it’s too late.

  204. Serious Pillowfight*

    Any advice for a longtime writer/editor looking to change up careers? I don’t want to necessarily stop writing and editing but I’ve been at a newspaper for over a decade and am wondering what else is out there. I have an MFA, if that matters.

    1. Photographers?*

      Content marketing can be fun and reasonably lucrative if you can get in with a good company!

      1. Serious Pillowfight*

        Thanks. I find my soul dies a little when faced with pressure to fill quotas, etc. Is that part of content marketing?

        1. Photographers?*

          Not in my experience— it was more “here’s a title for an article, write it” or “interview this person for a case study.” Sure, it’s commercial but I didn’t mind selling out. :) It makes a big difference if you have a good culture and enjoy churning out good-quality work. It does drain creativity, if you are writing on the side, so keep that in mind.

  205. Grouchy 2 cents*

    I know this is late but here’s hoping you have some ideas.

    I spent a number of years working for my family. Doing exactly what I do now (except now I actually get paid, so yay). But recruiters I’ve spoken with in the past seem to assume that if you did it for family that it doesn’t count. I’ve scrubbed all references to my family from that job description on my resume, when someone asks me about that time do I have to disclose it was for relatives? If so what’s a good script? I was thinking of something like, well that particular position was doing X for family members. If anything working for people who know you so well is more challenging since they tend to hold you to a higher standard.

    What do you think?

    2. Forking Great Username*

      Can you be a bit more specific? The fact that you weren’t getting paid for it threw me off a bit.

      1. Grouchy 2 cents*

        I was getting room and board so it wasn’t totally free labor. And it wasn’t an ideal situation for a number of reasons.
        But the jobs I’m applying for are low 6 figures, which is what the family would have paid an outside person for their services.

  206. Drama Llama*

    When Jody left the company I initially agreed to be her work reference. Since her departure I’ve realised I cannot give her a good work reference. At all.

    After she left multiple employees came out to complain about her treating them rudely and not responding to basic work requests. When I went through her work email 99% of it was stuff like online shopping, Europe trip planning, etc – there were hardly any work emails at all. Also found out she knew her assistant had stolen small amounts of cash from the office – but Jody kept it quiet and didn’t tell me (I’m the HR manager). Plus a bunch of other stuff.

    I actually feel like I have a moral obligation to warn other employers to not hire her if anyone calls to reference check. Should I tell her all this and ask her to not put me down as a reference any more? A part of me thinks why burn bridges when she’s already left.

    1. TeacherNerd*

      Last year a now-former (really unprofessional) colleague whose work I’ve never actually witnessed (we’re both teachers; I’ve never observed her teaching) asked me to be a reference. I was contacted twice, told the truth as tactfully as I could, and realized I was probably hurting her chances, so someone suggested I get back to said colleague and say something like, I realized in retrospect I haven’t observed you teaching, so I probably wouldn’t be a good reference for you because I can’t speak to your skills (the script that I was given was very good and it was along those lines). I had realized, like you, that I felt a moral obligation to pass along the ways in which she was awful, but I felt squeaky doing that too. Ultimately, I’m not sure she did actually find another teaching job.

    2. foolofgrace*

      You could ask her to stop putting you down as a reference, giving some nice lie like you just realized you didn’t know that much about her work habits OR a version of the truth like you learned some unsettling things about her, or you could skip that step and say to people who call that you’ve since realized that you don’t have much good information to share and leave it like that, let them wonder what that means. You’d be putting them on notice but not actually saying anything bad.

  207. Serious Pillowfight*

    Me again. When writing up an academic CV, am I supposed to list every newspaper article I’ve ever published? It would be a few hundred, going back to 2007.

    1. TeacherNerd*

      Apropos! Just yesterday I sent Alison a question about listing conference presentations from my undergrad days more than a decade ago. I think that with published articles, you could either list them all, or do something like “Selected Publications” that feature those you’re most proud of/most “relevant” (however you want to define that), show a variety of professional interests, etc. At least, I’ve seen the “Selected Publications” on other academic CVs; I’m not sure how those folks choose which ones are included, as such, though.

  208. cactus lady*

    I hate public speaking and I have to do it for part of my job! My first attempts were this week and I bombed HARD. Any tips?

    1. beanie beans*

      I hate public speaking also so you have my sympathies!

      If your company would support it, I would request training or a class specific to public speaking since practice is going to be the best way to get more comfortable with it.

      I also had someone tell me recently that it’s harder physically to go from nervous to calm than nervous to excited. So rather than putting a lot of effort into trying to calm yourself down before speaking, try to channel excitement and enthusiasm for the topic. I haven’t gotten to put this into much practice but thought it was interesting!

    3. tangerineRose*

      Toastmasters can be very helpful.

      Practice helps. Taking a deep breath from time to time helps. If you think about public speaking more about communicating something to people who want/need to know what you are telling them, that can help.

      Generally, the people listening don’t want perfection – they’ll be OK if you goof up here and there, stumble on a word, etc. They just want to know the information they need.

    2. Sam Foster*

      FWIW in my recent search experience Monster and Indeed did nothing other than expose me to low-level, make-numbers level recruiters who were a waste of time (one month contract gig 90 miles from my house as a warehouse worker? WHERE DO I SIGN UP?).

      Anyway, I sent out about 25 resumes in a very targeted search. Roughly 20 were found on LinkedIn, one was networking through MBA colleague, remainder were directly targeting company websites. Had four end up in “considering an offer” state, the one from networking, one from direct site, two from LinkedIn.

      I accepted one of the ones from LinkedIn. Good luck with your search.

    3. Courageous cat*

      I have had a surprising amount of success with Craigslist throughout my career. LinkedIn and Indeed are the only other two I use, but I’ve gotten the majority of my positions via Craigslist.

  210. Keyboard Cowboy*

    Do any AAM readers do recruiting? Can you answer why recruiters would think it’s reasonable for them to send opportunity pitches to someone at their work email address, or cold call at their work desk phone? I see this happen a lot – it’s happened to a coworker of mine! – and I just don’t understand! Shed some light on me. :)

  211. TeacherNerd*

    I need help with a script to shut down a colleague who badmouths another colleague for no apparent reason. Colleague A will say things like, “Ugh, B and that stupid class he teaches [that he started at our school and has won numerous state awards]!” or “B looks stupid in his clown car” (colleague B is about 6’7″ and drives a small car because, I’m guessing, that’s what he could afford when he bought it). Colleague B has been wonderful to me since I started my job, was the first person to welcome me, and is one of my favorite people at my job. Aside from something like, “Wow, I really like B; could you not talk about him like that in front of me? Thanks!”

    I’m in my early 40s, and colleague A – the complainer – is a good 10+ years older than I, and has been teaching longer than I, too. (I mention this only to highlight that we’re not 16-year-olds working in a retail position. We each of us have graduate degrees and are teachers, where I’d expect a more professional line of behavior, although, yes, I know, that doesn’t mean people always act professionally and I don’t these details to derail a script.)

  212. Kate Daniels*

    I am very interested in diversifying my streams of income. For those of you with more than one income source, do you mind sharing what your various sources of income are (and if you care to share, approximately how many hours you spend on each job a week)? For instance, something like public librarian (40 hours) + freelance copyeditor (15 hours)?

    1. Anonypants*

      HS chemistry teacher (40 hours) plus meth “cook” (20 hours). Oh wait that’s not me, that’s Walter White…

  213. Good, Cheap, or Soon. Pick Two.*

    I’ve got a situation I’m stumped on how to solve; it involves nicknames and it’s causing a garden of issues to bloom. I’m looking for any ideas because it’s come to a head.

    I’ve been with Teapot Systems since shortly after I finished grad school… 10 minutes ago, I swear (the last fifteen years were merely a figment of people’s imaginations). Due to certain factors, I work in a specialized department; Samovar Development and Analysis. I started as an analyst but I ended up on the management track. Two years ago, when my boss had to leave for unexpected personal reasons, I ended up running the department. It worked out well, and we settled into a routine that has been productive and lucrative for the company. Then, three months ago, someone decided to get inventive.

    We have a new CFO. This CFO proceeded to immediately bring on a slew of new executives in various positions throughout the upper levels of the company. We’ve got twenty new guys who are all buddies, all business end coming into a technical company, and all so self assured that they just make you want to… grr. The admins have nicknamed them “The Frat” and more than one coworker has been given a half day to “walk it off” after a meeting with them. Their refusal to learn anything technical has also resulted in a “promotion” for me. Along with leading my department, I am now the Technical Liaison for Teapot Systems. This should be a full time position with support and possibly a budget for stress relief. It also shouldn’t come with a f*cking nickname.

    They call me “the Sheepdog.” They’re not even discreet about using it, so they’re overheard frequently calling me this. When they were talking about an analyst who refused to data mine something (it was illegal), “Don’t worry, the Sheepdog will bring her back in line.” If I explain why one of their plans won’t work? “There’s the Sheepdog, protecting her flock.” I don’t really like being compared to a dog but I could let that go. The implication that the technical side of the business is all sheep? Has gone over like a lead balloon. I’ve got pissed people who are quietly making sheep noises every time the executives walk by. Right now, I’m keeping the peace with things like donuts, coffee, letting people work from home for a few days, half days to cool off after a meeting that’s gone wrong, sending them to HR, etc. This is not going to hold forever but I can’t figure out what to do. Help?

    1. TeacherNerd*

      “Please stop calling me that. I don’t like it.” “Stop calling me that.” “I’ve asked you to stop calling me that. Is there a reason you aren’t?” (“Yes, it’s funny.” “I don’t like that. I need you to respect this.”) Then stop responding to it. Don’t get into why the tech side is or isn’t “all sheep” (whatever that even means).

      Something similar has come up in previous columns here, although I can’t remember specifics, but Alison has often suggested a script that comes in line with “I need you to…” and not using “I feel like…” Might also help with putting a stop to the admins calling these guys “the frat.” I’d go with very direct, very professional, not emotional. They might try to pull something with this, but go with direct and professional and the Death Stare.

      1. Good, Cheap, or Soon. Pick Two.*

        They never actually say it to my face. It’s just used among “The Frat” and overheard by admins and coworkers. That’s why I’m stuck. If it was to my face, the “Sheepdog” would use the thousand yard stare damn quick.

    2. foolofgrace*

      Are you getting s performance review any time soon? That might be a good place to bring it up, given that the person doing the review will have some clout. If no performance review is on the horizon, maybe you could bring it up with the person with the most clout, and phrase it somehow as “you wouldn’t like it very much if it were you being called an animal.” Other than that, I’ve got nothing.

      1. Good, Cheap, or Soon. Pick Two.*

        I’ve got a meeting coming up with the COO, to review the year so far, in a few weeks. I can try raising it then. Thanks for the suggestion; I guess I should approach it as a problem that affects me. I’ve been more worried about the way it’s been causing problems with my guys. I’m also not happy with the way they’ve been treating our admins and support staff. I get that we’re a technical company that’s grown big enough that we need more business-minded people but I’m hoping to find a way to put the breaks on the culture shift that they’re trying to import.

        Admittedly, I am biased. I started out on the technical side and those are my reports. Unfortunately, I’m afraid we’re going to start losing talent over the way these idiots think they can act and the ones who are most pissed off are our most valuable assets. We may be a specialized firm but that doesn’t mean we don’t have competition and I had to woo hard to get two of the guys who have been rubbed the wrong way by this. If I lose either of them, we’re looking at serious losses in terms of what we can deliver to our clients. At that point, we aren’t going to need as many business-minded people because.

  214. Lizzi*

    I had an incident happen last week at work that has never happened to me in my professional career: our director of marketing berated me to the point where they made me cry. My office is textbook toxic work environment: micromanaging, backstabbing, passive aggressive behavior — the works. The director had overreacted about me not requesting time off correctly for a 3-day vacation and somehow it went over my manager’s head to the director. I did not think it was that big of a deal since I had always requested time off the way I have for the past 2+ years I have been there, but my manager did not even rush to defend me and didn’t say anything about how it was a miscommunication error. I cried mostly because I was so disturbed that this easily fixable protocol problem had gone to the head honcho and then the director proceeded to tear into me. The director said some pretty wild things to me, and it definitely pushed me into finally searching for a new job.

    My question is, should I demand an apology? Go to HR? I don’t epect an apology, but maybe I should. I’ve been barely cordial to the both of them since the incident and am trying my damndest to get out ASAP.

    1. TeacherNerd*

      I’d just get out ASAP, as you’re trying to do and keep to myself. If you were inclined, you might go to your boss, or someone In Charge whom you trust, and lay it out like, “These things are happening, and I’m not sure how to go about fixing this. What would you recommend?” You might try your boss – “You know, I felt unsupported when you weren’t able to help clarify this issue that came up, but these other things are happening and they’re starting to interfere with my ability to do a good job. I’d really value your advice in how I can resolve these issues.”

    2. Tipcat*

      Do not put any more emotional energy into this job. You won’t get anything good back. Run.

  215. CatMintCat*

    I have, six months ago, moved out of a very toxic workplace with a sociopathic manager, who spent four years undermining my self-confidence and self-worth in a very diligent manner. Lots of reasons why I couldn’t moved, but eventually did get a new position.

    My new boss is lovely – definitely has his quirks – but treats his staff like people. He knows my old boss and is sympathetic to what I have been through with her. I am starting to feel like maybe I can be a productive employee again.

    Question is – how long does it take for the almost-PTSD feelings from the old job to go away? It’s holding me back, making me second guess everything I do and overthink everything new boss says, and I just want to be me again.

    1. foolofgrace*

      Sounds like this is a “one day at a time” thing. Time will help you to feel better about your decisions. How much time depends on how many risks you’re willing to take, and how they pan out. Be kind to yourself.

  216. Salaried and promoted*

    I’m being promoted soon and my boss just informed me that they don’t plan to give me the raise associated with the promotion for a year, until I’m completely “trained in”. I will be performing most of the duties within a month, which will be about 5 extra hours per week, not to mention a significant increase in stress. I’m salaried in my current position, so how do I prevent my employer from taking advantage of me? Unfortunately not taking the promotion isn’t really an option.

    1. foolofgrace*

      You say that it’s not an option to refuse the promotion. The only other avenue that you have for negotiation is the one-year timeline to be completely trained in. Can you make it six months instead of a year? I don’t seer that you have much choice here.

  217. nym*

    Repeat after me: not my monkey, not my problem.

    I think I am a coworker’s BEC. A few months ago she was on a short assignment to another department, and I was tasked with making some updates to a project she owns while she was gone; I discovered that several months’ worth of previous updates had not been made, and took it to our mutual boss with the question “updates have not been made since Date X. Would you like me to incorporate them into my current update, or hold them for coworker’s return” the answer was that I should make the updates…and upon coworker’s return, they had a discussion about those missed updates that left coworker very upset.

    Coworker and I are passing acquaintances outside of work, and a recent conversation involved a discussion of our approaches to said work, that she prefers to do the bare minimum and never volunteer for additional duties while my approach is to become involved in everything I can, always taking on new tasks and helping out where needed. We also talked some about our different levels of trust from, and trust in, our boss; I feel supported and as though our boss listens to my suggestions, she does not. I know that there have been some performance issues on her side which has led boss to manage her much more closely than he manages me, which is frustrating for both of them – for boss because he feels someone with her level of experience shouldn’t need so much oversight to stay on top of tasks, and for coworker because she feels micromanaged (experience has proven that without oversight, she consistently misses deadlines.)

    We recently both applied for a significant professional development opportunity which required recommendation from boss; I was selected and she was not. We also both recently applied for the same promotion; I was selected and she was not. I know that these two things are due to my track record of performance vs hers; she feels persecuted, and I suspect overwhelmed that she will need to pick up some of my individual contributor activities as I move into more of a manager role.

    Her annoyance at my recent wins is not my monkey, not my problem, and I should not feel guilty. I earned my wins by a proven track record of performance and being the better candidate.

    1. Thlayli*

      Not your circus, not your monkeys.

      I mean she actually said she does the bare minimum! She can’t really complain about not getting promoted.

  218. Triplestep*

    When do you share with potential employers that you are a candidate for other opportunities in addition to theirs?

    I have a very good problem in that I am a serious candidate for three jobs, and a finalist in one more. So far the interviews have all been over the phone (including the one for which I’m a finalist – it’s a distributed team) and everyone is talking about face-to-face interviews.

    I would like to schedule these on consecutive days if possible to avoid spending sporadic time out of the office. Would it be worthwhile to let potential employers know I am setting up other face-to-face interviews? I, of course, don’t want to hear from them “well, go ahead and pursue those other opportunities – we’ll proceed with other candidates”. And I also don’t want them to think I am trying to make myself look highly sought-after or manipulative in way.

    Thoughts anyone?

    1. Kathenus*

      While I think most employers assume that candidates are likely looking at various opportunities, I never let prospective employers know this directly unless I’m in a situation where I have an offer from one and want to inquire about the timeline for a decision at the other. The only other time I’ve disclosed this is if I’m in another city for an interview already, and have also applied elsewhere in that city, I may reach out and see if I can arrange a meeting while I’m already in town (depends on the situation whether or not I share the reason for being there).

      If you’re trying to schedule interviews on certain days, you can always just contact them and say that looking at your schedule here are days you’d be available for an interview proactively.

      Good luck!

      1. Triplestep*

        Thanks, that’s good advice (and I actually now remember Alison answering a letter about the “already in town” question.) I suppose that trying to schedule around regular life/work events when one is currently employed and searching is a reasonable way to frame it. They do not need to know *why* I can’t come on certain days or would prefer to come on others.

        I have two main fears: The first, of course, is that all of these dry up and blow away, or are offered to someone else. But my runner up second fear is more related to this question: that I will get an offer and then find myself trying to stall until I hear back from another.

        By the way, only one of the four has given me a salary range, and it’s not the one for which I’m a finalist. I’m starting to think about ways to broach that topic before I agree to a face-to-face. Two of them I’m all but certain would be a bump up, but the “finalist” one might not even be a lateral move salary-wise. I can’t believe that at this stage they haven’t asked – or told – a range!

  219. Thlayli*

    I would suggest you wait until you have an offer at least before disclosing that.

    It’s unlikely to affect scheduling of interviews – either the interview panel is flexible or it’s not. If they are flexible they’ll work with you anyway, if not then telling them you have other interviews is unlikely to help.

    Also – if you tell them you have other interviews, but then you don’t end up with any other offers – that will probably hurt your negotiation rather than help it.

  220. Disappointed Cubicles*

    Coworker was recently out for 3 months after having a baby. Normally that probably would not have made too much difference in our work flow, but around the same time two other coworkers also developed major health issues and were also out for 3 months each. This created need for a LOT of overtime from everyone (which was actually welcome monetarily as we rarely get OT) and I’ve had to change my own schedule drastically to make up for one of the other coworkers’ absences. I am about as sleep deprived as I can be from this new schedule and have gotten lost twice in the dark because of road construction, and it actually looks like the schedule will be permanent, but I digress.

    During this same time, the ability for us to work from home started being bandied about as a real possibility. New Mother was going to be given a computer to take home and be the test subject, but she delivered a little early (mom and baby both fine) and the computer setup was not ready to go yet, so boss’s assistant has been the test subject. All worked well. Now three more computers are just about ready to go, and we are being told that there will be certain requirements for going home and NOT told that any particular three people have been picked. However, I overheard boss telling New Mother “I’m SO glad that you’re back” and that she will be given one of the computers post haste.

    I get why New Mother would want this deal and that boss wants to make her happy. I don’t think New Mother should be punished for having a baby and being gone for three months. But this just sort of feels like the *rest* of us who have been here through it all and have made sacrifices to try to keep our accounts afloat and happy (we were absolutely swamped and unable to keep up but we tried) are being punished instead, plus lied to or at least misled.

    Being able to work from home, even if for only a couple of days a week, would give me better/longer sleep (I and one other coworker have the longest drive to and from work at 0 dark thirty). But even if I weren’t personally chosen to be one of the lucky three, I would rather see all three computers go to three other coworkers who have been there for the crap we have been through at the office. We all do basically the same work so it is not that New Mother is higher on the totem pole (actually she has less seniority than almost all of the rest of us) or more skilled.

    I think bringing up my concerns would be futile as there is definitely some favoritism going on in the office (and not just for New Mother). Saying anything would probably put a target on my back. Le sigh.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      You could just show your perspective. “Boss, I could use a break in the drive time. We have been working long hours which is understandable, but it would be good to have the opportunity to work from home a couple days per week.”
      See, no mention of New Mom here. If you can, craft an explanation of how this would benefit your department/company for you to be at home some days.

  221. Esther*

    I’m looking for practical suggestions on becoming more assertive at work, specifically with my managers. Without going into details, the managers are often aggressive in their communication, jump to conclusions, etc. I would like to start standing up for myself more often (I will pick my battles) until I can find a new job.

    Can anyone recommend any YouTube videos that worked for you or online training programs? Or even something in person? I live in NYC. I tend to learn best by seeing. And I need to focus on tone of voice.

    Thanks!

    1. Not So NewReader*

      When I felt unheard, I targeted my content.
      1) Listen to the boss’ objections. Usually they use similar objections and it’s kind of predictable what they will say. We learn this over time. So you suggest X and they respond with “What about ABC?” Be ready for that question if you can see it coming.
      It’s okay for them to ask questions. The problem is they can do it in a rapid fire manner which is intimidating. However, I forced myself to focus on the question itself not the manner of delivery. I learned to answer the questions and to overcome their objections with facts or with refining my initial suggestion.

      2) There is nothing wrong with once in a while saying, “I have been thinking about this idea for a while and I was really hoping I could show you my idea.” This can be effective in stopping that 9o mph boss and making them realize they need to listen. I used this with my BEST ideas when they would not listen to me. I made sure my idea was worth their time.

      I don’t have recs for videos, sorry. But while you are looking for videos maybe you can find real life people who do well and watch what they do. With tone of voice you can practice in front of the mirror until you get used to the sound of your voice saying something like, “Boss, I would like to finish telling you about my idea because I think you will like it.” or whatever it is you want to say. It’s good to use your own words rather than a stranger’s on the internet.

  222. dragon_heart*

    A bit late to the thread but here is a question for HR recruiters. I want to move overseas (EU) but I am from a non-EU country. I have seen plenty of ads in linkedin that I am qualified for (some I tick all the boxes, some almost 90%).

    My question is, how do I know if the company I am applying to is open to sponsor a work visa unless they say otherwise?
    If the ad contains any of these : citizens only, company cannot sponsor a work visa, should be fluent in such and such language and if the ad is written in anything other than english then I don’t apply.

    Other than these, is there any way to tell? I don’t want to keep applying to jobs that I have no chance in getting of course so any way to tell?

  223. Triple Anon*

    Someone I met through my business recommended me for a full time position at the place where she works. Hooray! I wrote a great cover letter and did a good job of updating my resume and portfolio. I sent everything in, then got a form rejection letter saying my answers to the multiple choice questions didn’t match what they were looking for. It was a public sector job and you had to estimate your skill level in all the relevant areas. I guess I’ll be less humble next time around.

    I’m not worried about it, though. I’m getting by. And I think that place might not have been a good fit anyway. I’m going to look for a private sector job so that just networking and having a well written application will go farther.

    I contacted a professor from 20 years ago and haven’t heard back. But it’s summer. Maybe she’s on vacation. I could really use a conversation with someone who knows I’m good at things.

    I’m still working for the company that “lost” part of my pay, then got angry and ceased to respond after acknowledging that they screwed up. They’re terrible to their workers. A rip off in a lot of ways, but better than nothing. One day, when I have a better job, I might take legal action to get the money they owe me.

    Side business ventures are going very well, but not bringing in much income right now.

    At least I can eat and keep the utilities on. One day, I’ll have a day off.

  224. Nacho*

    I know I’m being super late on this, but I figured I’d ask:

    I’m applying for an internal lateral move. Do I list my current and previous managers at my office as references, or should my references be from other jobs?

    1. a*

      I don’t usually list references until I am asked for them. That lets me give them a heads-up that they may get a call. If you are already at that point, I would list anyone you would normally give as a reference, either for an external or internal role. The hiring manager will probably talk informally with your current and/or previous managers at your current office, but if you think they will have positive things to say, including them explicitly as references would be good. If you have previous managers from other companies who would say good things, include them, too.

  225. a*

    I know I’m late to this thread, but I’m hoping I might still get some input from the group. I am a new manager and in the process of hiring my first direct report. The person I want to hire was referred by multiple members of my team. They worked with him in varying capacities at his last place of employment – some as senior colleagues and another as an indirect manager. It feels a bit redundant to request references to check, but I also don’t want to be irresponsible and skip a step. Do you think it’s OK to not do a formal reference check in this instance?

Comments are closed.