open thread – September 7-8, 2018

by Alison Green on September 7, 2018

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue.

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  1. What’s with today, today?*

    As I’ve said before, I work in an family owned cluster of small market radio stations. Our station has 7 full time employees including the boss, and our breakdown is 4 men, 3 women. Our youngest employee is 23. Our oldest two employees are 78 & 83. I’m a 37 and a woman. The 83 year-old man is killing me lately. We’ve worked together 10 years, so I’m not sure why I’m being bothered by it so much more. First, he interrupts on a constant basis. Monday, during a staff meeting, our boss asked me a question about a problem, and we were discussing a solution. It was very obvious I was in mid-conversation with our boss, and co-worker, who was directly across from me raised his voice over our discussion and said “Uh, Today, how did X event go on Sunday?” I gave him a death loom and went back to talking with boss, who looked confused. First, what the hell? Two, X event had nothing to do with me, I wasn’t there and couldn’t have answered the question. This is one example of something very common.

    Also, same co-worker has always made gendered comments and said things that generally aren’t appropriate(never sexual in nature, but sexist). As we prepared for meeting I referenced above, he walked in and said “Today, why didn’t you make us some dainties for the meeting?” Well I had no earthly idea what “dainties” were, so I asked him what they were. His response, “Your a woman! You should know what dainties are! They are Finger sandwiches!” I told him to ask John, the man seated next to him, to bring the dainties from now on.

    I’m not asking for advice really. Just venting. My boss has talked to him about the sexist comments before, and Co-worker’s response is always, “Boss, I’m old!!!”

    Anyway, file this under Issues that are bothering me!

    1. Kowalski! Options!*

      I’m not THAT old (by much) but if someone asked me about my dainties, I’d assume that he was talking about my undergarments, and I’d be on the phone to HR in a heartbeat.

      2. HannahS*

        It’s a regional thing, at least in Canada. In Ontario, where I grew up, dainties = underwear, but on the prairies where my extended family live, dainties = assortment of small desserts. This has lead to some amusing misunderstandings between the Prairie Folk and the Easterners.

        1. mkt*

          Hmm, I’m in Alberta, so part of prairie region, and have never heard of dainties being anything other than underwear.

          Now bunnyhugs instead of jumpers/sweaters… that I’ve heard of but also don’t use here in AB.

        2. Rachel*

          It never crossed my mind that dainties would be anything other than small desserts, or that this would be a strange word to others. My mother was from a rural area in Saskatchewan, so maybe that is where I got it!

        5. Ellie Y*

          Born and raised in SK – currently living in Alberta. Most people understand that “dainties” means desserts. I’ve only had a couple of raised eyebrows when I use the term. Mind you, I would never use it at the office!

        6. Specialk9*

          That’s a hysterical difference in meaning. It’s like the US – UK “pants” (trousers vs underwear) and fanny (old-fashioned granny alternative to butt, vs c#$t).

      3. What's with today, today?*

        That was my first thought too, underwear. But with 7 full-time employees in a family owned business, we have no HR. As I said, my boss has talked to him about this and he kind of stomps his foot and says “But I’m old!”

        1. Jadelyn*

          Then your boss is failing at his job, since there’s a simple response to “but I’m old!”: “I understand that, but your age doesn’t exempt you from the need to behave professionally toward your coworkers. From now on, I need you to behave appropriately, without making any further sexist comments. If you can’t do that, there will be disciplinary actions, up to and potentially including separation of employment.”

          I mean, sure, he’s old, but that’s an excuse, not a valid reason. Non-discrimination laws don’t contain age exemptions so that older folks can go ahead and discriminate simply because they got in the bad habit of it over the course of their lives.

        2. Say what?*

          Ugh, I’d be tempted to respond with “So you’re sexist and you’re ‘too old to change?’ I’m hearing that you’re ok with us treating you differently because you’re older then. We won’t invite you to participate in new training because you’re no longer young enough to understand new technology. Your ability to earn raises and promotions will be stalled, but you’re ‘old!'”

          Petty as all get out, but damn he needs to see how this would feel on the other foot.

          1. What's with today, today?*

            Well, it’s funny you say that. He won’t sell anything that has to do with new technology (streaming, podcasts, etc.) What’s his reasoning you ask? “I’m too old to understand that. These young salespeople can focus on those things!”

            I really am just venting, I promise.

              2. Lora*

                What the…? It amazes me to no end what people say out loud to their bosses.

                This week a dude who was supposed to give me some accounting codes for a formal capital request first refused to reply to me (a mere woman) and then when he replied to my male colleague, told him “go ask my boss” when it is literally his job to know that and tell it to us.

                I would not be super eager to tell my boss, “I am incompetent” for any reason, but definitely not “I am incompetent and cannot do a significant part of my job because of [explicit reason to discriminate against me]”. Who the heck are these people, even?

              3. Say what?*

                Yeah, what designbot said… The man is an idiot! He’s literally ageist-ing himself!

                Vent away, WWT,T? You deserve it.

        3. Aphrodite*

          That response is even more offensive than the original one. The reason is that it is one of several ones–“I’m too old to change” or “I’m new here” as well as the infamous “That’s just the way I am” (especially to complaints about their continual late arrivals to anything) to excuse bad behavior.

          It’s not that someone can’t change. Look at how much many of us have changed some things to be sensitive to others. It’s that people who use those general excuses don’t give a damn about anyone and have no intention of moving out of rude territory.

          Your boss should let him know that any comments that even lean in that direction will be met with unemployment (since he was already warned and responded to said warning with a cavalier dismissal of an excuse).

        4. Old Fart Math Teacher*

          I think I’d probably respond to “I’m old” with something along the lines of “if I can’t treat you differently because you’re old, then you can’t use it as your excuse to act differently.”

        5. Genevieve Shockley*

          “The only time you can not change behavior is when you are dead. You are not dead, and age is not an excuse.”

          I am in my 60’s and believe the above would be appropriate to say to the gentleman.

      4. Videogame Lurker*

        Ditto on the underwear translation. And ‘finger sandwiches’? Is he from Europe? Who eats ‘tiny sandwiches’ at a meeting? At best, *quiet* snacks.

        Unless that is what those disgusting wrap thinga from costco are?

        1. Ann Onimous*

          I’m from Europe, and the last time I remember eating finger sandwiches in any sort of “gathering”, were during birthday parties in the 90s…

    2. Snark*

      “Bob, this is the kind of comment I’ve asked you to stop, because they’re sexist. I don’t care if you’re old. If you wouldn’t say it to John or Fergus, don’t say it to me.”

    3. pleaset*

      “Boss, I’m old!!!”

      When you say something like that as defense for not being able to change, then yeah, you’re old.

      In contrast, if you’re 83 and still (at least trying) to learn/grown/change, you’re not that old.

      1. Snark*

        And even if you’re old, if you are still employed and are not well into dementia, it is not too late to learn to hold your damn tongue.

      2. Jadelyn*

        If you’re too old to behave professionally toward ALL your coworkers, you’re too old to be in the workforce, and you should be retired.

      3. LSP*

        Ugh! I hate that people think they can just excuse their unprofessional bad behavior with stating something about their own demographic. It doesn’t matter if he is old. He still has to follow the same rules as everyone else in the workplace. The LAW says so.

        I used to have to deal with some obnoxiously sexist (and sexual) comments from a coworker, and when I complained, was told that it was just “his culture”. Ok, sure, he’s Muslim and his family is from Pakistan, BUT a) same as above: the rules apply to EVERYONE! b) there are plenty of Muslims who are able to comport themselves professionally and to think otherwise is SUPER bigoted, and c) this guy grew up in CALIFORNIA! Give me a big, fat break.

      4. fposte*

        You’re old either way, and that’s fine; it’s okay to be old. It’s not okay to be unable to be current with your job’s needs because of the number of your trips around the sun.

      5. Anonymeece*

        Ooh, yes. I had an employee – also in his 80s, white male – who made very disrespectful comments and even *crooked his fingers and snapped* to “summon” a female coworker. I shut down the “But I’m old” comments by saying something along the lines of, “This is about respecting your coworkers. Would you do that to George? Then don’t do it to Susie.”

        Was it sexist? Definitely! But pointing out the sexism didn’t change the behavior (big boss was also afraid to fire because of his age), but pointing out “respecting coworkers” did. Might be worth a try if your big boss isn’t helpful.

      6. Catherine*

        The age thing is just an excuse I think. I sit next to a much older chap at work, he doesn’t always hear things so well, I helped him set up his new laptop and with various technology issues. In return, he is the most wise, kind and helpful person I’ve worked with in many years. His advice and support has been invaluable. He is also extremely conscious of how people are treated and I’ve never heard any kind of sexist, ageist or misogynistic comment from him. I think What’s With’s colleague is that kind of person because he is that kind of person, not because of his age.

    4. Icontroltherobots*

      Your response was perfect! I hate the “I’m old, so I can’t” attitude. Yes you can, I pay you, don’t be sexist.

      1. Decima Dewey*

        I stopped a coworker from playing the “I’m sooo old and decrepit” card by pointing out that I was actually the oldest person in the branch (by a couple of years).

      3. Emmaborina*

        Time to make up a bingo card. Five old/sexist comments and you shout out bingo. It won’t change anything but maybe highlight how ridiculous the attitude is.

    5. MAB*

      “Bill, we are in the middle of a conversation that has nothing to do with X. Let us finish please.”

      “Bill, its 2018 and what you just said is rather sexist”

      “Bill dainties means panties. That is not an appropriate thing to ask a coworker to bring”

      “Bill are you ok? Lately you have been speaking over me while I am talking. Are you having issues hearing?”

      “Bill just because you are older doesn’t make your comments ok. Stop”

      “Bill would you say that to your granddaughter?”

      “Bill you are talking like a dirty old man and it isn’t flattering for you”

      1. Say what?*

        I’m thinking that he would find it appropriate to say/assign these things to his daughter/granddaughter.

        1. ValaMalDoran*

          Probably.

          We were visiting my grandparents once, and my brother was in the kitchen doing dishes. My grandfather told me my brother was in the kitchen, doing my job.

    6. Lissa*

      I think you telling him to ask John to make the dainties was great! Since it sounds like you know there’s not much you can do and are just venting I vote for you continuing to respond similarly any time he says something sexist. Make it annoying for him to say those things to you. Not saying to be rude but I have had success with never seeming outright annoyed but just replying in a way that’s really unsatisfying.

    7. Indie*

      WOW. Since the boss is on-side, I think you’re in an excellent position to just call it out in whatever your preferred mode is; Patronising – “We don’t talk like that to women nowadays, you should read up on that”, Blunt – “Oh are you doing that thing where you pretend you’re too old to know what sexism is. I know your game”, or just weary “Co worker, everyone is just tired of your sexism, so if you aren’t willing or able to address women properly, you should just be quiet” and just follow up with “I’ve asked you not to do that” and “We’ve talked about this”.
      It’s more than a shame your boss isn’t firing him though.

      1. What's with today, today?*

        Boss has flat out said he can’t let co-worker go because of co-workers age. Co-worker drives our boss batty. Boss is gone at least three of five days a week though, so he doesn’t see it as often as if happens. Honestly, though, my co-worker is in sales and brings in a lot of money, so I’m not sure they’d let him go if they felt like they could.

        1. Jadelyn*

          Boss is wildly, wildly wrong. Age is not a shield against termination, if you’re behaving in such a manner that would get any other employee fired. Yes, document everything to hell and back (which you should be doing for any employee you let go anyway), but if you’ve got the ability when the EEO lawyer comes a-knocking to point at the records and say “he did XYZ, he was coached, he was put on a PIP, he was given a final warning, and wilfully refused to even try to improve the behavior he was on the PIP for, so we let him go, which is what we would do for any employee who behaved like that and refused to even try to improve,” then you’re fine.

          2. NW Mossy*

            Just so. Protections against age discrimination do not exist to be a poor-performance hall pass for anyone over a certain age, and it’s sad how many organizations tolerate poor performance because they misunderstand these laws.

    8. MissDisplaced*

      Dainties! Well, I think you responded appropriately to that one!
      Next time he responds with “Boss, I’m old!!!” Ask him if he can still learn new tricks. Like shutting his pie hole.

      I had one guy I work with recently put, in an email no less, that we should order padded carpet for a trade show because we have “preggers” there. We have no pregnant females on our team, so I have zero clue who or what he was referring to. I let it pass as I’ve not heard other comments of this type from him, but I was kind of appalled. If you want padded carpet, just ask to order padded carpet.

    9. Marlowe*

      “I’m old!!!” as an excuse for sexism will never make sense to me. What, respect towards women didn’t exist back in their day?

      1. What's with today, today?*

        Before he retired and went into sales, he was a publisher of a newspaper and then managed a car dealership, and his home life was very much a world where women stayed in the home. He refuses to ride in a car with a female co-worker because “people will talk,” and, when I was coaching our most junior employee (the 23-year-old, male), co-worker told me to “just be a mother to him.” I shut down that shit real quick.

          1. What's with today, today?*

            I shut the mother thing down. Told him I had one child and would be doing out co-worker a disservice if I mothered him. I had an in the moment outburst.

        2. NW Mossy*

          “People will talk”? He’s 83! The “talk” is vastly more likely to be “oh, how nice that he has a young person in his life to drive him around” than “OMG scandal what a player!”

          2. Erin*

            People would think it’s his granddaughter taking him to his his optometrist appoint for his cataracts.

        4. Indie*

          Like if you were that self conscious about appearances, why would you not keep that little policy and rationale to yourself! Like anybody would press him for reasons as to why they are going to be deprived of his company! He could simply say he likes to drive himself and likes his own space and people would be happy to let him be, especially the women.

          Doing it this way is trumpeting himself as the big bad wolf, when in all likelihood people could openly say “No one thinks you’re Casanova” and get a round of nods from everyone in attendance.

      2. Not So NewReader*

        “Showing respect for others is a basic component of any job and is expected from everyone. If you cannot consistently show basic respect for others then you cannot work here. Age has no bearing on any of this.”

        The boss needs to grow a spine.

      3. Cookie Monster*

        ah, yes exactly. respect for women mostly didn’t exist back in their day. I mean, some men had it, but it certainly wasn’t the norm. Look at the old laws that you could deny women a loan or bank account if it wasn’t also signed by a man even if the woman was financially self supporting; or the “rape doesn’t exist within marriage” laws; or the laws that allowed men to beat their wives. All of these things changes relatively recently.

      4. stitchinthyme*

        I just read a quote from someone to the effect that using “I’m old” as an excuse for sexism or bigotry is basically saying, “I lived through most of the major social justice movements of the 20th century and didn’t learn a thing from any of them.”

        1. Workerbee*

          “For you, the Renaissance is just something that happened to other people.” – paraphrasing from BlackAdder

          If he’s too old to change, that means he’s too old to learn, and what he’s doing still being employed is down to that spineless boss at this point.

      5. The Hobbit*

        This. We had a case of a famous actor in my country who was accused of sexual harassment and gave ‘his generation’ as an excuse. This man is about my father’s age, maybe a bit younger, so I brought it up to my father and asked him if this was okay ‘back in his day’. His answer was ‘my mother would have made sure I couldn’t sit for a long time – even as a grown man’. So I often use the ‘yeah, so and so is the same age and doesn’t act like this’ response now, most of the time.

        Also: it’s funny that the same old people say stuff like ‘back in my day people knew how to behave’ when they think younger people are being disrespectful to them.

    10. Temperance*

      So what I would do is respond to him and ask him why HE didn’t bring any “dainties” for the meeting. And yeah, dainties means panties, so I would have probably pointed out to him that most women understand that.

    11. SJ*

      Obviously, this is sexist and not ok but at this point…is it really going to change? Sounds like he’s not willing, not going to, not being forced to…change. I’m SO glad you speak up but at this point, it’s sort of a roll your eyes and sigh deeply and ignore him situation. At this age, he’ll either retire or die soon enough.

      1. What's with today, today?*

        That’s exactly what I do. I have no delusions about changing him, and again, we’ve worked together 10 years. I think it grates on me more now than it used to bother me. Just venting today. :)

    12. I'mNotYourSweetie*

      I have a 75 year old female employee who insists on calling everyone – stranger or coworker – honey, sweetie, kiddo or darling. She volunteered to make some phone calls to clients, I emailed her privately and asked her not to use these terms of endearment while making phone calls about what is supposed to be a professional event. She took offense that I had emailed her privately and not included everyone. She asked why I singled her out and I explained that she’s the only one who does that, and I didn’t want to embarrass her by including everyone. She’s decided she’s not the right person to make the phone calls.
      She also insists on hugging complete strangers she’s just met at professional conferences. I cannot get her to stop, and it makes my company seem really unprofessional, because these people are completely caught off guard.
      It’s extremely frustrating and embarrassing – I can just picture the 20 something man on the end of the line with a masters degree or more wondering why this woman is calling him kiddo.

      1. Say what?*

        Ugh, hugging as an office “norm.” I would avoid this person at all costs because I love my personal space.

        I had a coworker (74) tell me I was a “good girl” for shoveling the walk during a snow storm. I emailed her and told her I found it demeaning and asked her not to do it again. To her credit, she hasn’t. Turns out you can respect others’ wishes even if you are older than them.

    13. designbot*

      I’d be like, here’s the thing Fergus: we can’t discriminate against you because of your age. But you can’t discriminate against US because of your age, either. It’s not an excuse to behave badly.

    14. Jenna Maroney*

      All I hear when people use age as an excuse is “I lived through these societal changes but still managed to learn nothing.”

    15. RickTq*

      I’d talk to his family about getting a dementia evaluation, sad to say. If these inappropriate comments and behaviors are increasing it may be time for him to step back.

      1. What’s with today, today?*

        The comments and interrupting aren’t increasing. My tolerance is decreasing. Trust me when I say his mind is as sharp as a tack.

        1. RickTq*

          That’s what we thought with my father, and he was a high-level consultant to the electric power industry at 90. In business environments he was OK but per his neurologist his impulse control/executive functions were at the level of a 12 year old.

    16. AFPM*

      Just out of curiosity, what if your job and what is his job? Is he on-air talent or a salesperson? If so, that might explain why no one’s given him a talking to. I worked in admin positions in radio for a long time and had to put up with obnoxious behavior – mostly from salespeople – because they bring in the money and, because of that, were allowed to do pretty much whatever they wanted. On-air talent can also be untouchable if they get good ratings. I’m not excusing the behavior at all, just that those are the dynamics I’ve encountered. And hopefully that person will retire soon. Good luck!

      1. What’s with today, today?*

        He’s sales and I’m on air talent. I’m the News Director and morning personality. Our jobs work in tandem, I have no check without him selling, and he has nothing to sell without me.

        1. twig*

          My thought on the “dainties” request — if he asks you about dainties for a meeting again:

          “BOB! Why the HECK are you asking about my UNDERWEAR?!?!?”

          Inserting profanity if it’s acceptable at your job. — I know that’s not what he ACTUALLY meant — but maybe if you embarass him, he’ll think twice next time? — I mean, he probably won’t — but you might get a chuckle over it?

    17. paxfelis*

      “You’re old, so you know better and have no excuse. Knock it off.”

      Ah, if only that worked…

  2. Folklorist*

    It’s your Hey-I-Remembered-This-Early-Enough-to-Post ANTI-PROCRASTINATION POST!!! Get off here, go do something you’ve been putting off, then come back and brag about it! (Then you can carry on reading the thread. I wouldn’t deprive you of your AAM!)

    I’m going to answer emails from applicants who are waiting to hear from me and organize this whole “hiring a freelancer” thing.

    1. Icontroltherobots*

      Things I’ve done this morning to procrastinate:

      1) started a “define” tattling comment for op #1 by accident.
      2) Booked a trip to do to something fun!
      3) Put on my very best happy face when condescended to by a co-worker.
      4) Discussed in detail very non-work things with work best-friend

      NEXT up – long lunch and then doing the HARD THINKING THING.

    5. Squirrel*

      I sent the email to two people who I’m inviting to collaborate on a project for the next 4 months! I meant to do it last Thursday, but ran out of time.

      1. Bibliovore*

        okay- I have business travel to book
        press release to write
        Budget to prepare.
        reference to follow up on.

        So- I will check my schedule and start looking at flights Right Now.

    6. MsChanandlerBong*

      I’m going to do the three weeks’ worth of work I was supposed to be doing for the last three weeks. I’ll be back at 6:30 EST with an update, lol.

    7. Daughter of Ada and Grace*

      I asked for help with an expense report (I love our admin) and finally made a much delayed optometrist appointment.

    9. Tea Fish*

      Called three people I was dreading calling because I needed to shift their appointments and/or tell them that a check was delayed. All the calls went swimmingly!

    10. Misquoted*

      Put something in the mail that has been on my to-do list for a long time. And I used the cauliflower in the fridge before it went bad. Go, me! And all of you!

  3. k.k*

    Should I follow up with this potential interviewer, and if so how? Last Friday I got an email from somewhere I applied inviting me to an interview and asking my availability. I replied that same day with several open days the following week (this week). I haven’t heard back. Normally I wouldn’t follow up so soon, but now the dates I listed have past. If I write back, what should I say?

    1. alice*

      Last Friday is ages ago! I’d say something like “Hey, just wanted to check in. Do any of those times work for you? I am flexible on Tuesdays (or whenever you can be flexible)”

    2. Audiophile*

      I’ve had this happen. You can follow up at this point and say “I’m just following up on this previous. Here are some additional dates I’m available. I look forward to meeting with you.”

    3. CAA*

      Forward the previous email you sent and at the top, say something like “I wanted to follow up on your request for an interview since the dates I had provided earlier have passed. I’m still very interested in the position, and am available next week on these days/times: list of dates”.

      If they don’t respond to this one, let it go and move on.

    4. Bea*

      Holy crap…it may have been filtered to their spam folder and they don’t remember to check. Our system filters out a lot of the popular domains because of their phishing histories, siiiiiiigh.

      I would have followed up about 3 days ago. :|

    5. The New Wanderer*

      Absolutely follow up. That happened to me a while back, and it turned out the interviewer had missed or forgotten my original reply, so we were able to schedule another interview pretty quickly.

      I wouldn’t follow up more than the one time, though.

  4. I woke up like this*

    Hi! I am starting a new position that I’m super excited about, and I finally have an office of my own!. The only rub: my office is super small and does not have a window. My door opens to a dark hallway, so I have problems with both the lack of natural light and lack of circulating air. What tips do you all have to making such an office more pleasant? I have a ton of freedom in the decorating of my office, and after a conversation with my chair, I’m thinking this may be my office for a long time (office space is limited real estate in academia!).

    2. Jenn*

      Congratulations! Very exciting! It sounds like a lamp is a must, maybe a lamp with a bulb that mimics daylight. A few other ideas that may or may not work: an aromatherapy diffuser? Its is big enough for a reading nook with a comfy chair and nice light? A special coffee/tea shelf? A bookcase?

      1. Curious Cat*

        Yep definitely get a natural light lamp! Those things work wonders. Also decorate with some nice low-key plants that don’t need much sunlight or maintenance. Artwork on the walls, pictures of friends/family/pets, take any advantage to add a bit of bright color so the space doesn’t feel quite so cramped!

        1. JaneB*

          Daylight bulb will help the plants too! Definitely support that. I have an academic office with a window… on the ground floor, mostly covered by a very large bush, shaded by a tree, and then there’s another building. The light has a certain dim and greenish underwater quality whatever the time of year, and my daylight lamp definitely helps both my mood and my eyesight!

        2. Ender*

          Some plants like Japanese peace lilies are particularly good at cleaning indoor air. Maybe see if you can find one that is good at that and also can live on just lamplight (or get indoor grow-lamps from a headshop).

          1. As Close As Breakfast*

            I have a domino peace lily that lived, thrived really, for over 2 years in an office with no windows. I also have a golden pothos that did really well in the same office. My office now has a huge window and both of them (along with a bunch of plant friends) are still doing great. I thought they would need to be put outside sometimes when I got them for the windowless cave I used to work in, but seriously, I’m pretty sure neither saw light other than the overhead fluorescent lights for that whole 2 years.

            1. I woke up like this*

              Awesome! I’d love a plant to cheer up the space. I’ll be on the look out for peace lilies, thanks!

        3. Blue*

          I have never heard of daylight lamps, so thank you for that suggestion! (My office has windows, but tragically, they are so tinted, they provide next to no sunlight.)

      2. Manders*

        Yes, I strongly recommend this! One caveat: the very bright “light therapy” lamps aren’t supposed to be used all day, just for a short period of time in the morning. Having something that bright close to your face for a full 8 hours can cause eyestrain and headaches. Make sure you’ve got some other normal lamps to use for the rest of the day.

    3. Zip Silver*

      Definitely get a small fan, possibly one with an air filter or a small dehumidifier, depending on what the circulation problems are like.

      1. EJane*

        Amazon sells an $80 HEPA fan (the brand is LeVoit) that’s about the size of a trash can. It’s a miracle worker! It eliminates smells extremely well (i’ve used it to filter out both resin fumes [it doesn’t filter VOCs but it did take care of the smell] and pet messes) has various speed settings, and generally will make your life easier if you’re in a small and/or musty space.

    4. Annie Moose*

      A sun lamp (or just a good lamp in general) could help brighten things up. Also plants, although of course that’s harder without natural light!

        1. Dino*

          I was just going to suggest a snake plant! they’re really good for air quality on top of being basically invincible.

          1. Bee's Knees*

            Exactly. Mine literally fell out of the moving truck (while parked) and then survived in a 110 degree greenhouse with no water for like a month. Before that, it lived in my dark apartment, and thrived.

          1. TardyTardis*

            That’s the plant I need, having killed an innocent jade plant (and will steal for a Hogwarts fanfiction, just *guess* where it’s going to go…).

    5. Nita*

      I’ve got pictures on the walls, and some pretty glassware. Tried to grow plants, but my air circulation problem is that the HVAC outlet is right above my desk… I found out the hard way that even the toughest plants die when there’s a steady stream of cold, dry air coming right at them.

      1. Dave*

        It is pretty easy to move the HVAC diffuser over a tile if there is room in a grid ceiling. Might be worth asking your maintenance guy. (This is assuming there isn’t a piece of equipment right above your office hidden in the ceiling or your building had a thousand renovations with limited demo.)

        1. Nita*

          I doubt that anyone will do a hardware upgrade to save my plants, but thanks for the idea! I’m going on leave in a few months, and will pitch the idea then for the comfort of whoever uses my office while I’m gone.

    6. Observer*

      The right lamp can make a significant difference in terms of the lighting.

      Don’t bring in too much stuff, or it will make the room feel more crowded.

    7. Jadelyn*

      Daylight lamp, maybe a couple of them. Decorative mirrors or art that incorporates mirrors. Plants will help brighten it and also freshen the air a bit – do a google for “bathroom plants” to find ones that do well with zero natural light.

      1. Bibliovore*

        My old job had an office very similar.

        A natural light lamp.
        a small fan.
        bookshelves.
        I had built in shelving for my books
        flat cubbies like in mailroom for student papers and prep for classes.

    8. Kittymommy*

      No advice, but I was confused longer than I should be with the”conversation with my chair”. In my head I’m thinking like your office chair… why are they having a conversation with her office chair… Does the chair have a name??

      …ohh the chair of her organization.
      I need a nap.

      4. I woke up like this*

        Bahahahaha! I do talk to myself in my office, so one might think I’m talking to my chair!

      5. Akcipitrokulo*

        It took this comment for me to realise…. seemed perfectly reasonable to me. Alone in new office, and start like “Well, Chair, looks like it’s just you and me…”

    9. SJ*

      *facepalm* “after a conversation with my chair…” I seriously thought you were discussing things with your office furniture for a minute!!!!!

    10. epi*

      You might be surprised by what plants you can have in a windowless office. I am writing from one and have a hobbit jade, a croton, and an asparagus fern. My desk has a fluorescent under-cabinet light so I just keep them directly under that. Conveniently, that also keeps them in my peripheral vision all day. It was actually an employee at a plant shop, who had previously had an office job, who encouraged me to give it a try.

      There are some *really* cute desk sets you can get to help make it look like a human sits here in a hurry. I recommend Fab or browsing the “interesting finds” section on Amazon. Once you have a couple of small things that make your desk look occupied, you can wait for more meaningful stuff like cards or small gifts to accumulate.

      1. I woke up like this*

        Thank you! I’ll see if there’s a horticulture department or club on campus that sells plants. Brilliant idea!

    11. RainyDay*

      Are string lights/fairie lights an option for you? I have them strung in a dark part of my apartment and they make a world of difference. I don’t think they’re unprofessional, but it of course depends on your specific environment – I’ve worked in offices where cube/office decor was completely acceptable, and lights were not out of the ordinary.

      1. I woke up like this*

        Totally an option! I’m a professor in the humanities, so we are expected to be a bit quirky. Thank you!

    12. Working with Professionals*

      It can also help to put up a window sized picture of the outdoors. I used to change them out seasonally and another coworker actually added window trim and curtains to enhance the illusion. Congratulations!

      1. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

        Maybe even one like they have at IKEA stores that are just a big LED light box on the wall with a picture of an outdoor scene to make fake windows in their little show apartments?

      2. I woke up like this*

        I found on etsy a mirror with window panes, so it looks a bit like a window AND reflects light. It’s in my cart now!

      3. TardyTardis*

        Dresslily has huge wall tapestries with varying designs, some of them classic bookcases, some of them doorways to the beach, and so on.

    13. Xarcady*

      See if they will repaint the office for you in a light, cheerful color. Or let you paint it yourself. Especially if the walls are that lovely institutional green.

    14. Aphrodite*

      Even though I have two windows, I still prefer lighting. But I do not use the fluorescent ceiling lighting in the office but always bring in two or three attractive lamps, either table, floor or a combination, usually found on CL. I make sure they are ones I’d put in my home, pretty colored ones or faux mercury ones or glass ones or whatever I find that I like. I still use incandescent bulbs because I prefer that light. That alone will make a big difference.

      Also, artwork. I don’t mean standard artwork you see anywhere but things you love. It can be a combination of framed pictures or ones you have done on canvas.

      I find a few decor items–bring them from home if you have extras or watch for something you love. But don’t buy anything just to have it. Regardless of how long it takes let what you love enter your life.

      Also, the holidays are coming up. I have a small green tabletop tree with mini green lights and ornaments that I keep here. (I’ll leave it when I retire.) I also decorate for autumn and use pumpkins, wheat and other things I like.

      Most of all, I keep my desk clean. I hate piles. Everything I need is filed neatly in drawers so I can get it instantly. Of course I have my current project on my desk or table but nothing else. A mini-refrigerator holds drinks and lunch/snacks.

      I’ve been in here since November 1, and most of the built-in bookshelves are still empty. I haven’t filled them just to have them filled but slowly, very slowly, the office is becoming mine. And I love it!

    15. FRIYAY!*

      At a previous job, two of my coworkers worked in a literal closet – it was originally meant for printers but they turned it into an office!

      What I’ve seen done successfully is a lot of paper lanterns – the big ball lights so you can hang them at different heights, with a bulb or without, and not take up floor space. Gives it color and ambiance lol. Add as many plants as you feel able to, a small tabletop fan, and hopefully it won’t be too bad. Congrats on the new job!

    16. Artemesia*

      I had this kind of office once and I got a poster of one of my Magret’s window paintings. If I hadn’t had that I would have found another outdoor scene to have my own window. That and of course good lighting. And as others noted mirrors can be helpful too and there are mirror strips and mirror tiles to perhaps fill an awkward corner or do something creative as you don’t need a mirror to look at yourself but the effect of enlarging the office.

    17. Courageous cat*

      I’d do the opposite of what some people are saying. Instead of trying to make it feel like there’s outdoor light, embrace it and go really cozy with it. Lower, warmer lights, maybe some string lights, soft fabrics, lots of plants (cast iron plants are a great choice with no light), etc.

  5. chi type*

    My department recently got a new Head and she has decided that 4 of us should take turns supervising 4 low-level PT employees. O_o
    Obviously there is a lot of potential here for miscommunication, duplication of work, etc. I’m thinking we will need to do things like track schedule changes and make sure certain tasks are completed on deadline. Does anyone have suggestions for free or low-cost apps/software to help us all stay on the same page? Maybe something with checklists, etc? We do have access to OneNote – I think that’s sometimes used for workflow-management type stuff?? Also something called Microsoft Teams??
    I’m not even sure what we need I just see the potential for much frustration on the horizon…Any suggestions are welcome!

    1. Red Staplers are awesome*

      I run a 24/7 team with people in multiple locations. I use a separate Google calendar to make sure we always have coverage, each person is responsible for making sure their entry on the calendar is up to date and I check it over pretty frequently to make sure we don’t have any gaps in coverage.

      I use Trello to manage tasks. Especially with the 24/7 coverage, I’m not always around to ask people how a specific task is progressing. They can leave notes for each other in Trello and can check off when specific things are finished. For re-occurring tasks, I use IFTTT to automatically set up cards each day.

      1. Crylo Ren*

        Seconding Trello. Our team which has a similar setup (a couple of employees who have multiple managers) uses it for task work. You can set up checklists and assign specific people to specific tasks.

      2. There is a Life Outside the Library*

        Trello is awesome…just make sure you get on the same page with everyone about HOW you are using it. There are some dummies out there who will refuse to get familiar with its (extremely easy) interface, and pretend they don’t see tasks assigned to them.

      3. emmelemm*

        Today I learned that IFTTT exists and I am fascinated. (I am actually a programmer, so I understand If This Then That as a concept. But as an app that manages your life – !!?!)

    2. BRR*

      My suggestion would be to push back if you can. I’ve had two managers before and that was sometimes difficult, I can’t imagine four.

    5. professional_failure*

      Depending on how complex your assignments are, you could use google sheets. We use it and like it because it’s dead simple, you can sort, and a lot of the project functionality on more complicated programs was overkill for our one-and-done tasks

    6. epi*

      I like Google Keep. I’ve used it to share checklists and notes with both my boss and my husband and it works pretty well.

      It has a cute bulletin board look that allows you to color code and rearrange lists and notes. I put other stuff in there like a couple of funny pictures or a quote I like, and it encourages me to keep looking at it and using it. It also lets you easily duplicate lists. So if you share something like a proofreading checklist with an intern, they can have their own copy that they check off whenever they read through a document without interfering with everyone else.

      I also use Google Drive but rarely combine these products; in my experience it isn’t necessary to use other Google products to get a lot out of Keep. Of course, you’ll want to be sure it’s OK to put the type of information you’re sharing in Google if that not what your company’s office suite is hosted on.

    7. chi type*

      Thanks guys! I will take a look at these suggestions (while secretly hoping she forgets the whole crazy scheme).

    8. Lavender Menace*

      Why wouldn’t she just have each one of you supervise one PT employee?

      Microsoft Teams is an application that’s kind of like Slack, in that it’s primary purpose is communication on work teams. I’ve found it works best for small-to-medium-sized work groups, so your group size of 8 is probably perfect. Basically, you create a “team” that is for your work group, and you can create ‘channels’ on different topic areas (medium-sized work groups often use them for sub-groups; small work groups might use them for different topics of discussion, like “Teapot Design” and “Teapot Assembly” or something). In those channels you can have asynchronous chats/discussions kind of like on this comment board. All the chats live there, so you can go back and refer to them later; you get notifications when they happen, but you don’t have to respond right away either. It’s kind of like in between instant messenger and email.

      There are also plug-ins you can use to centralize all of your stuff. So they have a OneNote plug-in that means you can link to a OneNote document right from Teams. There’s also an Asana one, and several others. There’s a pretty simple one called Planner that allows you to assign tasks.

      1. chi type*

        Thanks for the description of Teams. I’ll probably check that one out first since we do have Office 365.
        As for “Why wouldn’t she just have each one of you supervise one PT employee?” There are reasons. Boring and idiotic reasons.

        1. Bowl of Oranges*

          If you have Office 365, you probably have access to Microsoft Planner. It’s a lightweight project management app, which may work for you. You can have multiple plans, with buckets and categories within each. You can also assign to-dos to other people with due dates.

          It also plugs into Teams!

  6. ThatGirl*

    When I started, my team had five people on it, plus a team lead. We’re currently at three. We don’t necessarily need 5 – we’ve sold off a business unit – but I think four is ideal to get through our busiest times of year. However the new manager has said we’re stuck with three for now.

    This would be fine – it is what it is – except that there’s still a job ad up for the allegedly non-existent fourth person. Which makes me wonder if HR never got the memo or if our manager was confused.

    1. ContentWrangler*

      Is it up on your company website or on a job hosting site? Some of those sites like Indeed, the jobs can hang around for awhile because companys book a set amount of time for the ad.

      I’m sure your manager would know if there was going to be a hire. Probably just HR slow to update things.

      1. ThatGirl*

        It’s on our company job site. And while you would think our manager would know… she is a little spacey and forgetful sometimes.

        1. Jadelyn*

          The other question then is, who has access to update the website? I’m in HR but we don’t have direct access to update the careers page on our website – we have to email the marketing department and tell them what changes we need them to make, then wait for them to do it.

          1. ThatGirl*

            That, I do not know for sure. I assumed HR was the only one with direct access to it (it’s through SuccessFactors which also handles our reviews etc.)

            1. Jadelyn*

              Oh, then if it’s hooked up directly to your HRIS, then yeah – your boss will need to tell HR to close the req out of the system. We are unfortunately not mind-readers and don’t intuitively know that a manager has decided not to hire for a previously open position unless someone tells us! :)

  7. Side hustle*

    I picked up a second job for some extra cash and it made me curious about other side hustles. If you have a side hustle, what do you do?

    1. Baby Fishmouth*

      I work a very part time job as event staff for road races – I only work one or two shifts once a month or so, so it’s not much money, but I get a great discount at the associated store.

        1. Baby Fishmouth*

          I found out about it through a friend of a friend, but they did post it on the regular store careers website! Maybe contact any running/outdoor stores to see if they have anything similar?

    2. ThatGirl*

      This is not meant as a criticism of you, but I really hate the term “side hustle,” it’s a second job, just like you said. People have had second jobs for centuries.

      Anyway, I don’t have one, but one of my coworkers works for Shipt on evenings and weekends.

        1. ThatGirl*

          Sorry, it truly is just a phrase that bugs me, but I am not the word police and don’t mean to derail on that :)

          1. Elle*

            I agree with ThatGirl. It’s not an attack on the poster, but on the cultural idea that having a side gig is glamorous or something other than what it is: employers not being willing to pay people enough to live. However, I’m a big fan of people’s “side hustles” when it’s not about scraping by, but about furthering a hobby or starting up their passion project.

            1. ThatGirl*

              Yes, this is more what I was getting at – that we’re in this “gig economy” where everyone has to “hustle” all the time. I hate the permeating “work yourself to death” idea and I think “side hustle” and needing second jobs in general goes along with that.

              I do not mean to criticize the OP at all.

            2. ArtsNerd*

              Heh, I just opened this thread to make a post about being tired of my 2 job + freelance + personal project (i.e. 4 jobs) lifestyle. I enjoy each of them individually but it’s just too much when together. But I can’t make ends meet without the 3 revenue generating ones and I can’t stay well and sane without the artistic outlet (which is gaining traction = will be somewhat revenue generating soon but also taking up more time.)

              1. ArtsNerd*

                And to answer OP’s original question: my main job is arts marketing (in-house), side ‘hustles’ are freelance graphic design, music retail, and music making.

            3. What's with today, today?*

              I disagree. I have a great job and a decent salary, and my husband is a successful family and criminal attorney and makes more than enough to comfortably support our family of three. I don’t need to have extra income, however, I do some freelance writing on the side and use that money earned to buy luxury purses.

              1. What's with today, today?*

                I guess, to clarify, I consider mine a true side hustle in that I do it at my convenience, only take the available work I want, and can say no to any projects I don’t want. The amount of work I put in a month is completely up to me.

      2. Queen of Cans and Jars*

        We have a small coffee roasting business, so we sell coffee through our website & at farmers markets.

      3. Bea*

        Side hustles generally refer to freelance and contract work. So you’re not wrong but it really isn’t a big deal. The second job is disposable most times so it’s not looked at the same way as you’re standard full time job.

        Moonlighting is the word that should be used but again this is the internet, man.

      4. Temperance*

        FWIW, though, a side hustle can be a second job, but not necessarily so. I have a friend who sells stuff at craft shows and flea markets and she calls that a side hustle, for example. My husband used to be in a band that performed and he made some side cash gigging, but it definitely wasn’t a job.

        1. Er...*

          Yeah, maybe it’s just me but I think there’s different connotations for those phrases. I think of a side hustle as something like freelancing and being a entrepreneur/solopreneur whereas a second job suggests schedule and pay set by a boss.

          1. Manders*

            Yes, I tend to associate “side hustle” with owning your own business, setting your own hours, and not having a boss who can discipline or fire you.

            It’s tricky to define because a lot of companies that probably should be hiring actual W2 employees started using the same term to justify only hiring contractors/paying only commission/requiring people to use their own personal cars or computers/not paying minimum wage/churning through a lot of young or desperate people/etc. When those companies say “side hustle,” they usually mean “We know this isn’t a living wage, so we want customers to believe people are happily doing it for a little extra cash instead of being exploited.”

    5. Aurora Leigh*

      I do copy cataloging at my public library. It’s about 10-12 hours a week and I can set my own hours as long as stuff gets done in a fairly timely manner.

      I love it!

      1. Boba Feta*

        If you don’t mind elaborating, how did you set that up? Was it a cold call on your part or did you have a prior working relationship with your local branch? My first ever job was in a library (decades and many states ago), and this sounds like exactly the kind of thing I would love to set up now as a (third!) PT gig to help out until I can find something FT and permanent.

        1. Boba Feta*

          Gah! Sorry, I didn’t mean to include the link in the name again, and didn’t realize it had autosaved. Sorry, please disregard that bit!

        1. Aurora Leigh*

          Dorothy and Boba — I worked at my branch as a page though high school and college. About 2 years after I quit, I happened to be in the library and my old boss mentioned the cataloger was retiring in a month or two and would I like her job?

          I jumped on it! I’d love to do library work full time, but not enough to go into debt for the degree or move.

          I’m not sure how the previous cataloger got the job, but she also didn’t have an MLS.

          1. Boba Feta*

            Thanks, Aurora. I, too, paged (way back in the mists of time), but, as I said, that was many states ago. I may try to pop into my new-local-branch and make some inquiries, just in case. Thank you for the idea!

        1. chi type*

          Most books nowadays are cataloged by the Library of Congress or similar and then individual libraries just copy that work and add any specialized info from their library.
          Cataloging from scratch is mostly only done in archives or special libraries.

          1. Aurora Leigh*

            Right — I just copy records, or very occasionally make a brief record for a puppet or something — I didn’t want to pretend to be more skilled than I am! :)

          2. Jack Russell Terrier*

            My friend works in English Cataloguing for the Bodleian Library. They’re a copyright library so she actually creates the catalogue entry as they get newly published books.

          3. Zennish*

            FWIW, more original cataloging gets done at a Public Library than one might think. Self published or small press works often don’t have records available, and many publics have genealogy or local history collections that are cataloged in-house, along with other odds and ends.

    6. Zip Silver*

      I work super part time at one of Orlando’s theme parks. It’s not so much for the cash, but more for the free tickets, which is a pretty common thing around here.

      1. Tableau Wizard*

        This is literally the only thing that could make me consider retiring to Florida. (in decades and decades and decades…)

        Though maybe I could do the same in Anaheim California?

      2. Lilo*

        I didn’t make much money in my theme park jobs but getting to take my friends and family for free was great. I had a lot of coworkers who were grandparents and retired and used the benefits to take their grandkids.

      1. Red Reader*

        If you’re willing to share on the weekend post, I’m always looking for good accessory type patterns for fingering and lace weight yarns.

        1. Environmental Compliance*

          I just had a few cowl & shawl patterns come out! I’d be happy to share. I’m always looking for test knitters too.

    8. Academic Editor*

      My editing job is actually a freelance position – a second job on top of my more structured office work. I freelance through an online agency, so I have limited, controlled contact with my clients, set pricing, and the ability to accept or turn down potential texts as I have the time or need. The staff is also super helpful, and we freelance editors are protected from negative reviews by an extensive internal review process that evaluates our performance rather than whatever the customer says. Plus, we have an international editing community (the company offers services in multiple languages) and a very active Slack network for help and guidance!

      It’s a great side gig, and perfect for my needs.

      1. Boba Feta*

        This reply is actually both for you and Dr. Vanessa Poseidon (below): would you be willing to share how to came to be involved with your particular agency (Dr. Vanessa Poseidon: If you have one)? Was it through existing job connections or did you apply to work with them without previous contact? This kind of work sounds perfect for my credentials, experience, and temperament.

        1. Dr. Vanessa Poseidon*

          I work for an online agency that sounds very similar to Academic Editor ‘s. I cold applied, took their editing test, and got the job. My company only hires PhDs, but I’d imagine there are others with less stringent requirements. I’ve also heard good things about FlexJobs for finding gigs like this (specifically that postings are thoroughly vetted), so you might check for opportunities there (you need to pay for access, but it’s pretty affordable).

          1. Boba Feta*

            Thank you! I think I would be a great fit for this kind of work, and will start researching online agencies of the kind you mention. If you would feel comfortable sharing a name, I would appreciate the tip, but I also completely understand if not.

            I had briefly looked into FlexJobs, but balked at the notion of paying for access, given my time and budget restraints right now. But I appreciate the reminder of its existence, and may give it some more consideration.

            1. Dr. Vanessa Poseidon*

              That’s understandable! I’m debating with myself right now about whether I want to pay for Flex Jobs, since I’m looking for a new full-time position. I probably should, but haven’t talked myself into it yet cause I’m cheap.

          2. Academic Editor*

            My program doesn’t require a PhD, so it should be more accessible. But I also cold applied and took an editing test, then went through a short probationary period where I got feedback on every assignment before being turned loose.

            Some placed that hire freelancers (I haven’t worked at all of them, fair warning) are Cactus Communications, TCK Publishing, and Scribbr. You can also find freelance job postings on the ACES (American Copy Editors Society) job board.

            1. Boba Feta*

              Academic Editor, thank you so so much or this info. While I am not relishing the thought of adding more piecemeal work to my already overloaded proverbial plate, this is by far a much more palatable avenue than some of the other wacky ideas that entered my head as ways to earn a bit more until I can find a stable FT gig.

              1. Academic Editor*

                I totally understand. I can say that through Scribbr, because it works with students, there are definitely busy seasons. But even outside of them, they’re usually good for a job every few days (a job being about 10 hours of work). It more so depends on how you structure your preferences on topic, availability, type of editing, etc.

                But best of luck in your FT job search! I hope that works out and let’s you declutter that plate a little!

              2. Close Bracket*

                I currently work for Cactus. I have a PhD in Physics, and I get allocated all sorts of stuff, from different fields of engineering, materials science, machine learning, and other stuff. It pays peanuts. Some of the work is so poorly written that I can’t even tell what they are trying to say. You can preview the work before accepting it, so I try to screen the writing before accepting anything. Sometimes I have to do some research to understand particular terms they use, and sometimes I need to do more research than others. Some jobs come with a formatting aspect, and there is no extra pay for that. I know TeX, which is a desired skill, but I won’t take TeX jobs bc there is no extra pay, and I don’t need the hassle. You can tell if it is a TeX job bc it will be there in the preview files. You can’t tell if it needs to be formatted in Word for a particular journal.

                Trying to decipher the English word salad and learning about an unfamiliar field take a lot of time. The per word base rate is 1.6 cents, but the hourly rate can be really abysmal.

                1. Academic Editor*

                  Thanks for the share, Close Bracket. I had heard of Cactus but never worked there, so now I know what to avoid in the future.

      2. Lawnonymous*

        Would you be willing to share the name of the online agency? I am interested in this type of work and the the way this agency and position are set up sound awesome.

      3. Close Bracket*

        Do you have any particular certificates or whatnot? I work for Cactus, and I’m interested in expanding to other editing. I don’t have any actual editing qualifications, though, just (heh, just) the PhD that Cactus wanted.

        1. Academic Editor*

          Scribbr just requires passing an editing test and being a native speaker pretty much (I think it also asks for a resume and a small editing sample that they provide, but I’m not sure I remember that correctly). Editing experience is a definite plus, but no certifications required!

    9. MissGirl*

      I work as a ski instructor on holidays and spring break. I get lots of passes and discounts and the pay is pretty decent after several years of cultivating clientele.

    10. Dr. Vanessa Poseidon*

      I edit dissertations and other academic publications. I take on projects as I want them and mainly use the extra cash for vacations and fun stuff!

      1. Boba Feta*

        Dr. Vanessa Poseidon, just in case you hadn’t seen my question to Academic Editor, above:
        Do you have an agency through which you work? Would you be willing to share how to came to be involved either with your agency or how you set up your client base? This kind of work sounds perfect for my credentials, experience, and temperament, but I’m unclear how to separate the legitimate agencies that would be worth contacting/ pursuing from the semi-exploitative/predatory “5r” style operations one finds online. Thank you!

      2. TootsNYC*

        I have a friend who is a college professor who mentioned this to me as an opportunity, especially for her non-American, non-native-English-speaking students.

        But I always wonder, how much editing is ethical to do when someone’s academic rating is on the line?

        I have a tendency to really fix everything (though I don’t worry that I erase people’s voice at all), so someone who really didn’t get the English right would leave me feeling I had to essentially rewrite.

        1. Dr. Vanessa Poseidon*

          This is a good point, but the level of edit for each project is really well defined and factored into how much I get paid. So not only am I not allowed to rewrite material for academic clients, but there’s no incentive to do so, since I won’t get paid for it!

          Fixing all objective errors is well within the bounds of responsible editing. For the bigger stuff, most of my clients opt for a service where I provide feedback on writing issues, so that also allows me to flag things like unclear terminology or poor structure and to make suggestions, but still leaves it to the client to fix these things.

    11. It's In The Cards*

      Commenting anonymously because I’m a little worried about the blowback. But this is a hobby of mine now, but I used to do it for some extra pocket money.

      I used to read Tarot cards. It was more advice giving then reading the future (I think that’s dangerous and gives people false hope). I didn’t then, and don’t know, answer anything about debt, death, disease, or divorce. I know it’s a fine line but it’s an important one to me. Ask me how to get your ex to break up with his girlfriend? NEXT. Want to know what steps to take to improve your love life? Sure, let’s have a chat.

        2. The New Wanderer*

          Totally. I did this in college but just for fun (I was still reading the descriptions off the leaflet!), and it really was fun. Still have my cards somewhere…

      2. Curious Cat*

        Omg! I’ve actually been looking into getting my own set. How’d you start out with it? Did you do a lot of online tutorials to learn about how to do it, or is it a lot of intuition based? I’m so fascinated, I love this subject.

        1. It's In The Cards*

          I actually grew up with a lot of similar stuff. My mom was into getting her own Tarot readings(I’ve actually got a few cool stories from her). We had palmistry and astrology books around the house. So, for me, it was natural to slide into it.

          There’s a ton of information on the internet. I’m old school, though, I prefer books. And I really prefer getting into the history of it (which, HOLY HISTORY NERD, is fascinating). I don’t rely on the meanings from the books so much. It’s a fabulous jumping off point, don’t get me wrong. It’s a little intuition. It’s also looking at the symbols/story on the card and seeing how that relates to the question asked.

          I also dabble in other cartomancy – Lenormand, Kipper, etc. I love learning and there is so much history and mythology surrounding all of it.

          1. Curious Cat*

            I’ll have to see if my local library has any books I can check out and read up on. Thanks for humoring my questions! This is great.

            1. It's In The Cards*

              Oh, I had to restrain myself. I find this infinitely fascinating.

              If you want to REALLY get into it, I recommend Benebell Wen’s “Holistic Tarot”. It’s pretty much a one-stop shop for any information you could need. (If your library has it, even better!) She even has free study guides on her website that correspond to the book. As well as a collection of video lectures on YouTube.

            1. It's In The Cards*

              Unfortunately (?), it’s lumped in with all the other stuff in the books. I haven’t stumbled across a pure history of Tarot book. I’ve cobbled my knowledge together from the myriad books I own as well as good ol’ Google.

              My favorite book is mentioned above: Holistic Tarot by Benebell Wen. I’d start there. She sites all the sources she used. I’m also quite fond of all three books that Lo Scarabeo published (Tarot Fundamentals, Tarot Compendium, and Tarot Experience); they’re like a mini-encyclopedia set.

            2. A drive-by replyer*

              “A Wicked Pack of Cards” by Decker, Depaulis, and Dummett looks at the history and origins of the Tarot.

      3. Manders*

        Hey, that’s cool! I have a friend who’s trying to do this for some extra cash, but she’s pretty shy about marketing herself. Your boundaries seem reasonable and I’ve been pretty impressed by how a good Tarot reader can help me think through complicated issues.

        1. It's In The Cards*

          That’s exactly what I use it for. It literally lays out another way to look at the problem and the steps to resolve it. I’m always a fan of something that helps people look at stuff from a different angle.

      4. Sorcha*

        I used to do readings too. Haven’t done it in years, but I had a similar approach – I don’t tell fortunes, I can’t predict the future, but I can use the cards as a way to explore issues. I mostly did it for friends and family initially, but others asked if they could pay me and for a while I would do the odd reading for friends of friends, colleagues of my mum, etc.

    12. TonyTonyChopper*

      My husband and I have a side hustle dogsitting. We live in a big urban area where people travel a lot due to low cost of living, so we make really good money doing tasks we already have to do with our own dog.

    13. Bea*

      I pick up some transcription and emergency accounting gigs here and there. Yeah, sometimes bookkeepers just leave.

    14. Natalie*

      I do bookkeeping and basic HR consulting for a couple of small business owners. Pretty much everything but taxes.

    15. MissDisplaced*

      I’ve always done graphic design work as a side hustle. I recently made $200 for a logo that basically took me 15 minutes to create. And that’s not even me seeking extra work, just friends and friends of friends kind of stuff.

      I’m good at retouching and/or resizing photos too. I used to make $20/hour for that kind of work, pretty much as much as I wanted of it, from an online retailer. Sometimes also product photography. It used to be my weekend hustle for some time, though I don’t need it anymore.

      1. the.kat*

        If you don’t mind my asking, what was the online photo retouching/resizing company? I’d love to get into that but don’t know where to start.

        1. MissDisplaced*

          It was a couple of places over the years, any of which might need the help. Local car dealers: shooting the cars, retouching photos and posting to their website. Manufacturers: I’ve done this for like a fixtures/housewares and hardware type items. (think faucets, shower heads, o-rings, car parts, car accessories, etc.)

          With the manufacturers it was word of mouth referrals. I used to work in that industry and other designers or former coworkers recommended me for side work. What happens is stores like Home Depot, Amazon, Walmart, etc., require these manufacturers to send in photos of all their products, usually on a plain white background, named by SKU and in different sizes (thumbnails, previews, large). Companies may also need this for their own websites. It might be several hundred SKU’s! It’s boring production work a lot of manufacturers don’t have staff to do and/or their in-house graphic designer doesn’t want to do it! LOL!

          Car dealers/car lots: I found some from Craigslist and then word of mouth. Again, they may not have staff to do this, or may not be computer-savvy. Though this is changing.

          You could try posting an ad offering your services on your local Craigslist to see if you get interest in this area. Ask fellow working graphic designers or web developers/designers if they need extra production help. One of my best gigs was with a designer friend who liked shooting the pics while I did the cleanup (clipping paths) sizing and organizing, and we split the money on larger jobs. I suppose you could also make up cards and visit some of the local car dealerships. Nowadays, the ability to create short video clips might also be a plus for car dealers.

          It’s not exciting work compared to design, but it really helped give me extra income when I needed it. I don’t imagine it’s gone away completely. I know I was outsourcing this as recently as 2 years ago.

    16. Work Wardrobe*

      I have a vintage home goods shop on Etsy.

      I started it more for the fun/hobby aspect, but it’s turned out to be about as lucrative as a part-of-a-part-time job.

    17. Free Meerkats*

      Currently, I’m not. But in the past I have:

      Washed, waxed, and serviced (monitored tires, made sure proper documents were in them, fuel and oil, etc) airplanes.
      Been a BMW (Boat Maintenance Worker.)
      Been a sailing instructor and charter skipper.
      Worked on a square rigged vessel as mate for sunset cruises, day tours, weddings, and the like.
      Worked as a warehouseman for a sheltered workshop.
      Delivered cars for a local dealership.

      1. Free Meerkats*

        Oh yeah, I left off:

        Developed and sold racing harnesses online for a particular model car. I did about $25,000 gross one year on that one. Two years later, I grossed <$2000 as I'd filled the need for everyone who wanted them.

      2. Jadelyn*

        Okay, I’m desperately curious – how did you get into the airplane maintenance stuff? My dad’s a corporate pilot so I know that side of the business relatively well, but not so much on the FBO/maintenance/support side. And since my dad and I don’t speak anymore, I’ve been missing the time I used to spend hanging out around the airport with him, and it would be nice to have a way to do some of that again.

        1. Free Meerkats*

          I was working on my Commercial License and Instrument and Multi-Engine Ratings at the time at a small FBO at a very small airport (current identifier 4WA9). The owner worked part time there as a sideline to his Boeing job, his wife ran the office, we had a cadre of part time instructors and a full time A&P mechanic. IIRC, the mostly lease-back fleet was an Aeronca Champ, a C-140, a couple of C-150s, a C-172, a Piper Cherokee, a C-177RG, a Mooney M20G, and a Beech Duchess. I got time in all of them, loved the Mooney most of all.

          I was tired of dirty airplanes and it was something that needed to be done, so I talked with the owner about working in trade for my part of the bill after the GI Bill paid their share.

          1. Jadelyn*

            Oh that’s neat! Sounds like it might not be a reproducible set of circumstances for me, although I know we’ve got a couple of those super-small local airports nearby, maybe I’ll get in touch with their office staff. Thanks!

    18. ContentWrangler*

      I have a side job as an “event manager”. It’s an event space in a local public park so technically I’m a city employee. There has to be a city employee on site during any events hosted there. I do some basic opening and cleaning duties, but most of the job is watching Netflix in the office. It’s nice extra cash, I just do a couple shifts a month in the evening or the weekend.

    20. grey*

      Rat Race Rebellion just helped me land a side hustle – a temporary one that’ll last about 6 weeks and I’m in the midst of the evaluation for a permanent one.

    21. Jadelyn*

      I make and sell jewelry and paintings, and I’m working on a short story collection to put up for sale. I have one coworker who’s in one of those essential oil MLMs, another one who’s a realtor, and someone else does after hours/weekend tax prep during tax season.

    22. Kelly AF*

      I’m really good with SAS, Excel, and R, and use them in my current job extensively. Does anyone have any advice for making some extra money doing it freelance on the side? Is there a market for freelance data analysis? How would I find clients?

      1. Jadelyn*

        I imagine there would be a market for it – especially if you extend your offering to training a company’s existing EEs. I’d push hard for my boss to hire someone who could tutor me on SAS and R – Excel and your more routine analysis work, I’ve got handled, but more complex statistical analysis is beyond me and I’m really not even sure where to start chipping away at my ignorance on the subject.

        As far as where to find clients, I might suggest Upwork and Fiverr, but only because those are the two I’ve heard of. I can’t vouch for the quality or ease of use.

        1. Kelly AF*

          Thanks! I taught test prep classes on the side for awhile, so training is right in my wheelhouse.

          I recommend Data Camp for training on new technology, although I think they only have open source stuff. SAS is a big company and training is a lot more formal and controlled.

      2. medium of ballpoint*

        Throw up some fliers at colleges and universities! There are usually a ton of people happy to farm out their data analyses to someone.

      3. nonprofiteer*

        Assuming you are using those programs for stats: nonprofits are increasingly using predictive analytics to make their fundraising efforts more efficient, but most cannot hire someone full time for it. Instead they pay quite a lot to consultants! The book “Fundraising Analytics” by Josh Birkholz would be a good place to start.

    23. IL JimP*

      I actually started doing DoorDash since I used it as a customer and found it worked pretty good. So far I’m really only doing it to make a little extra a week but I’ve been averaging close to $20 per hour. You’re obviously an independent contractor with this app so you’ll need to put aside taxes and other stuff but seems pretty good so far plus it’s fun to see new restaurants in the area and meet some new people.

      1. Teapot Tester*

        My husband is a teacher and some of his colleagues did this over the summer, it’s fairly new to this area. They claim to not make enough money to offset gas costs. I can see how it would be lucrative in a more populated area though.

      2. Awkward Interviewee*

        Hopefully this isn’t too off-topic: As an occasional Door Dash customer, I have been wondering how the drivers are compensated. Are you paid a wage from Door Dash, or are you only paid through customers’ tips?

    24. Crylo Ren*

      I do freelance email marketing. I only have one client right now but that’s for the best as I’m also going to night classes, so I only really have time for a few off-and-on projects.

    25. A Teacher*

      High School Teacher full time. 3 “side hustles” I guess
      1) Head Coach of a team
      2) Adjunct at at college one night a week
      3) Work PRN as an athletic trainer for a local orthopedic group

    26. whatshername*

      I make, decorate, and sell sugar cookies. Mostly around Christmas, but I have one client (a previous coworker) who will call me up occasionally to make cookies for her grandkids.

    28. Alternative Person*

      I’m signed up with a couple of agencies that basically do the same work as my main job. It’s mostly cover work and one-off sessions but I landed a very nice medium-term government gig this year through one of them.

    29. Teapot Tester*

      I’m a secret shopper.

      My husband donates his plasma, he makes pretty good money when he can get there twice a week.

      1. Curious*

        I’ve seen secret shopper gigs but the pay is like $20/gig in a downtown area that I would have to spend $5+ just to get to! How do you make a profit off secret shopping?

        1. Teapot Tester*

          $20 is actually pretty good! I have a few rules:

          I only take restaurant jobs that include shop fees – reimbursing my lunch and not paying me to do the report is not worth my time.

          I won’t do anything that’s not in a reasonable driving distance, or requires paying to park. Some companies will reimburse tolls/parking but not all. If it’s near my home or office, or a place I go regularly (like my kids’ schools), I will do it. Or if I can create what they call a route, which is several shops done all in one shot. So if I had to pay $5 to go to a downtown area I’d try to do multiple shops at the same time. This does require signing up with a lot of companies though.

          I do shops that don’t take a lot of time. A comic book shop where I have to ask for an unreleased issue early, then make some observations, or a post office shop where I have to mail something, or dining shops at places I eat anyway. I like gas station shops – check the cleanliness and employee interactions, buy a coffee or a bottle of water, done.

          I won’t do shops that are time consuming or require a lot of interaction with a sales person, other than buying something. I find those are too easy to give yourself away since you have to ask about specific things. I had a friend that worked in a retail store and she always knew who the secret shoppers were because they bought something small and asked a lot of questions.

          But you won’t make a lot per shop. In 2015, when I was unemployed for 3/4 of the year, I made around $1,500 in shop fees, plus $800 in reimbursements. Now I only do a few a month so it’s even less of a profit.

            1. Teapot Tester*

              Yeah those are hard because they’re after 4pm. And once you’ve done one, I think you can’t do it for another year at the same location!

    30. Cheesesteak in Paradise*

      I do my current job at a different location, sometimes, on the weekend, for money. Not sure it counts as a “side hustle” so much as just extra work, different boss.

    31. Marie*

      I have two, that average about 10-15 hours a week together. I do remote work for a big online search company, evaluating search engine results and responses from their virtual assistant (pays really well but work is not consistent, can go an entire month without anything to do). I also do freelance marketing and communications work for a family member’s business.

    32. every day I'm hustlin'*

      So I have what I consider my “main gig” which is the work I do for my Career Path, but since that’s independent contractor work I also have a “main side gig” which right now is temping (perfect for two weeks on, two weeks off!), and a “side side gig” which is freelance proofreading (for manga specifically). It usually works out fine, until one week is busy in all 3 gigs. Then I want to die a little bit!

    33. Lilo*

      I babysit occasionally (I was a nanny in college and am certified and like kids).

      I will warn anyone reading off MLMs. My sis in law has lost a bit of money in at least two (one makeup one and one essential oils one). I looked up the income statements and a teeny minority make off those things at all. You would be way better off with a part time job.

    34. Manders*

      I help small businesses and nonprofits with local SEO, but I only do it for my friends and take my payment in trade/favors. I’d be miserable trying to make that a paying side hustle. It’s work I can do, but I find local SEO pretty boring and I don’t think I’d enjoy the process of trying to explain to paying clients why SEO improvements don’t always have immediate results.

      My husband has a podcast and makes a decent amount of money, enough to totally cover his share of the grocery and entertainment budget with some cash left over for savings, from donors and affiliate marketing. I’m about to start another podcast with him.

      It’s a little difficult to quantify how much money he’s made off his side hustle, because he’s turned down higher-paying jobs that wouldn’t leave him enough free time to continue working on the podcast. But he also got his current job partially because his podcast is about his field and it made him stand out from the other candidates.

    36. Ms. Meow*

      I tutor. My main subjects are chemistry, physics, 6-12th grade math, and SAT/ACT test prep. I picked it up when there was the possibility of being laid off and I wanted to pay down debts / pad my savings. That has passed, but I keep doing it because I enjoy teaching.

    37. Hush42*

      I don’t have one right now. My full time job plus 6 graduate credit is all my schedule currently allows for. Once I finish my master’s I really want to look into becoming an Adjunct Professor for online undergrad courses. I don’t necessarily need the money but I love school and I know I’ll miss it when I finally graduate (although right now I cannot wait to be done. I don’t want to be a full time professor or anything but the idea of teaching one undergrad class a semester online sounds fun to me.

    38. There's Always Money in the Banana Stand*

      I’m a preacher! I preach at two places regularly, and then I leave an open Sunday for pulpit supply requests from other places.

    40. Jackers*

      Not now, but in the past I taught fitness classes at the local YMCA a couple times a week. Not great pay, but got a discount on childcare and helped keep me active.

    41. OperaArt*

      I occasionally get professional acting jobs, 1-3 days in length. I do it more for the experience than for any noticeable change in my income. And it’s wildly different than my day job. I’ve been everything from a blue blue in the background on Loving, to the detective trying to catch the bad guy on one of those crime re-enactment TV shows.

      My working situation is the opposite of this past week’s news stories about Geoffrey Owens, who’s a working actor who had a side job at Trader Joe’s. Of course he had a side job! All the working actors I know have side jobs.

    42. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

      Care for cats (and lately, a human) out of my home. Run fitness Instagram.

      Doesn’t pay money, but lets me get free cat food and supplies for the trouble, which my pets and fosters can use alike. Human is an exchange student and covers his own costs as board. Also building up through Instagram to represent some activewear/supplements/what have you from pages I enjoy.

    43. Xarcady*

      I have a part-time job at a store that is large enough to let me work evenings and weekends only. My job has both a base hourly wage and a 2-4% commission on most of what I sell. The commission helps a lot.

      I also proofread/edit thesis and dissertations. The state university is one town over and has a lot of international grad students. I answered an ad from someone looking for help with English grammar and ever since, I’ve had a fair number of jobs by word of mouth. Recently, I found out that advisers in one department are recommending me to their students, which is nice. It would be great to do more of this so I could drop the retail job.

    44. Tegan*

      I play in a couple local-ish professional orchestras and just recently opened my own business making/selling baby/toddler clothes! Both of those are so far off from my main job working in IT for a federal agency, but all are things I really enjoy. I also umpired little league and high school baseball for many years, I might do that again at some point too.

    45. Juniper*

      I operate small drinking water systems on the side. I did it full time for a decade, but I had enough of trying to live off of contracting and took a regular full-time job. I kept two of my systems, and some other small consulting work when it pops up. I’m actively scaling it back though.

    46. AliceBD*

      I do social media / email / website work (own websites and niche specific websites) for freelancers and small businesses mostly in a particular niche market. So Facebook posts, updating their websites, sending emails via MailChimp, updating the websites that they have info on for their niche. I do like one email a month for my dad’s business (literally do not know why they want to bother paying me for it when their own employees could easily learn to do it but whatever)(it comes from my dad’s boss so I enjoy the little extra money) and I am probably going to start helping an acquaintance’s parent’s small business which is in a totally different niche, once the parent comes back from a trip. I do a retainer basis so I get steady money and it is really only 10-15 hours a month although I am trying to grow it a little.

    47. A Non E. Mouse*

      So it’s not a job or even a hustle, but I earn gift cards through a couple of websites (answering surveys, allowing videos to play in the background while I clean the house, etc.).

      I usually trade in the points for either Amazon or Paypal gift cards.

      I get around $50 to $75 a month with what I consider non-useable-otherwise-time, and I then don’t have to feel guilty if I want to waste money on another adult swear words coloring book from Amazon. Minimal (to me) effort, I don’t have to get out of my pajamas or find a sitter.

      1. Teapot Tester*

        I do this too, though not as often as I used to. I’ve bought Southwest Airlines gift cards to help pay for flights and Amazon gift cards at Christmas time.

    49. Green Cheese Moon*

      I’m a full time academic instructor. Once in a while I get a job to update the instructor’s materials that go along with published textbooks. Long ago the textbook companies would frequently pay us $50-$200 to “review” a textbook, though those opportunities dried up about 10 years ago (and by the end, I had realized that they really didn’t care about the review, it was just a ploy to get us looking at textbooks and hopefully adopting them for our students to buy). I’ve considered doing typing/word processing services (like resumes or whatnot) but haven’t done so.
      My big hobby is international folk dance and contra dance. Once in a while I get a paid gig to teach a workshop, but that usually is only enough to cover mileage, and/or free admission to an event I wanted to go to anyway.

    50. singforbeer*

      I’m a lay clerk: paid choral musician for an Anglican church. My degree was in music, so it’s an enjoyable way to keep skills up and earn pretty decent money for 4-5 hours per week. We also get paid to go on nice trips. The only downside is you’re very busy on Christmas Eve and an exhausted grumpus the day after.

      1. Nana*

        “Event Staff” at outdoor venue – required Guard Card, $15 WalMart pants, good shoes and clip-on flashlight. Checked purses for contraband (liquor/food/nothing scary) and took tickets (at the gate) for concerts I didn’t care about (heavy metal). Walked around in the amphitheater (checking for folks taking pix or behaving badly) during concerts I wanted to hear. Summer weekends, near home. Good fun!

    51. Peppermint (change my name again)*

      i got a food service stadium job (it sucks) as first job with 30 ish hours after college, then after a year i got a retail job that i try to do both. then i was working my retail job so much (hitting or close to 40 hours a week) that I quit the food service job (it was shit anyways)

      and then i got an hourly lab job but im still working my retail job on sunday… the managers kept me lol so

    52. Mallory*

      Not sure if this is allowed…but I’m looking for a super part time/one time database architect. If anyone is interested comment here!

      1. leukothea*

        I am a BI pm, which isn’t actually architecture, so I don’t know if my skills are sturdy enough. But I’m interested enough to leave this comment!

    53. Nobody Special*

      Loved reading these, the variety is fascinating! I’ve been retired a little while and now that I’ve finished the downsizing and moving part, I want to find more to do… and getting paid would be nice. (Reading A AM has helped me get some perspective looking back on my worklife… that’s why I’m here, partly, but also probably a timefiller).

  8. Emma*

    Piercing apprenticeship interview didn’t work out. The location was too far away & the pay wasn’t livable. Still slogging through my job search & trying to survive my current job until I get something new. Also finding myself increasingly frustrated that everything that piques my interest (mostly creative endeavors, working with animals, or even working retail somewhere interesting) pays less than a living wage. Ugh. My new strategy is to find something “office-y” that pays decently, isn’t too stressful & allows me to save so I can do something I’ll really enjoy later. Would also love any tips on getting through the day-to-day at my current job until I get another one. Resisting the impulse to quit even though I have nothing lined up is HARD.

    1. Jadelyn*

      Re the day-to-day, it depends on why it’s hard. If the work itself is boring or stressful, that I don’t have much to suggest for – but if it’s office toxicity or terrible coworkers, I always suggest the Jane Goodall approach – you are living among the primates and studying their ways. When someone does something toxic or batsh*t crazy, that mentality can help you to take a step back and observe it like you’re a documentary filmmaker or researcher rather than being overly affected by it. Bonus points for mentally narrating it in David Attenborough’s voice.

    2. EJane*

      I agree with Jadelyn. I’m also a creative–sewing, embroidering, etc–and my passions are with animals (I have a service dog and want to set up a training institution eventually), but I work office work.
      Finding a smaller company that’s looking for an admin will help with the monotony some. I wanted to tear my hair out when I worked for LSEG, but I moved to healthcare and like it a lot more–and am about to start as the office manager for a dance studio. Finding the right place for office-y work is critical.

      all of the great stories and movies about creative people have time montages that don’t show how much slogging through the day-to-day sucks your soul out. You’re in the montage of your story–and you can do it, I promise!

    3. SansaStark*

      When I was working a job that was making me miserable, I decided if I got to the point where I had 6 months of expenses saved up, I could quit. I calculated my daily take-home pay and at the end of each day congratulate myself for earning another $x. It helped to remind myself that I’m just here for the paycheck and every day put me closer to my goal.

      I also worked at an office-y job that was just so I could figure out what I wanted to do while still earning a paycheck. Best decision ever. I hope it all works out for you!

  9. Teapot librarian*

    What did you need to search AAM for this week? For me, it was “how to give feedback to an employee who doesn’t know how to accept it?” which led to “how to deal with an employee who complains about everything?” Two separate employees, two separate issues. Fun times!

    1. Kowalski! Options!*

      “Online hiring systems”, several times. Our internal hiring system is time-consuming and with two separate positions, there were issues with the screening questions. One job had the same question listed three different times. For another job, one screening question had no verbs of any sort. Do people not read these things before they go live?

        1. Kowalski! Options!*

          As much as I would love to go for that first job, I’m wondering if it would be too passively-aggressively-snippy to copy and paste the same answer for each of the three questions. Or if I should just slice and dice the answers so that they have the same wordings, but present the information in a different order.

          1. Chaordic One*

            It would be passive-agressive, but appropriately so, and certainly not too passive-aggressive or snippy to copy and past the same answer for each of the three questions. I frequently liberally copy and paste from my resume when filling out online applications.

    2. Robyn*

      Where to do a phone interview when you don’t have an office or a car. I’m traveling in DC for work and have a phone interview today. In addition to time zones, I’m looking for a quiet semi private place to take this call. Similar question from 2015 and the consensus was hotel lobbies, and quiet parks so here’s hoping!

      3. bookends*

        If you can find a library with small individual study/meeting rooms that you can use without one of their library cards, that may be a good option. Best of luck!

      4. Quinalla*

        Good luck! If it isn’t during lunch/dinner, a restaurant might actually not be a bad place either if they aren’t playing loud music. Get there early, order a drink and at least a snack/app and let the waitress/waiter know that you are going to be on a business call and not to interrupt until you are done. And tip well :) Or maybe a quick service place if you can find a quiet corner, the Panera by us people are always doing in person interviews there and not Panera interviews.

      5. Mad Baggins*

        I took one in the bathroom of a Starbucks. There was a little background music but it was mild and private. If your interview is long it might be rude to take up the bathroom for 30+min though. Also scrap this if your Starbucks bathroom has multiple stalls.

    3. Anonygrouse*

      How to handle a friend/coworker from my Toxic Old Job who still comes to me to vent. When we met up this week, I tried to redirect things to his job search and non-work topics rather than the latest drama — I was pretty successful!

    4. grey*

      I just found this site about a month ago. I love pressing the “Surprise Me” macro to read the archives. Have learned a ton.

    5. mkt*

      Coworker who multitasks during meetings.

      I wanted to read comments on those who write, doodle, knit and be able to have scripting on why appearances also matter, despite fact that some people really can multi task efficiently.

    6. designbot*

      Good interview questions. I’m on my office’s hiring committee and we’re trying to formalize some parts of the interview and onboarding process, and excited that I have all this wealth of knowledge from AAM to draw upon!

        1. designbot*

          It’s been weird to hear how other interviews go. I’m in a portfolio-based industry, so I pretty much thought interviews always went like:
          * Hi, tell us a little bit about yourself. Questions questions, why are you leaving your last/what are you looking for/where do you want your career to be going? Oh you used to be at Firm X, how did you like working with Cersei?
          * Porfolio review. What was your role on that project? Detailed questions about projects. Which of these represents the type of work you enjoy the most or would most like to keep pursuing?
          * A bit about us, the role we’re looking to fill, how we see someone with the skillset we’ve just evaluated functioning on our team.
          But apparently a significant number of interviews skip the first and/or the last step of that. Or, put step 3 first. My mind is blown.

    7. epi*

      I searched for something in the last week or two about whether and how to bring up when I’m being affected by someone not doing their job, but I don’t know them at all and I’m having trouble finding out who they even report to.

      I didn’t find anything that quite fit my situation so I sent in a question. If it doesn’t appear in a few weeks I’ll share here.

    8. wingmaster*

      “How to help a grieving co-worker.” My boss is unfortunately OOO because her father passed away last week. It was terrible, and everything happened so fast (we found out he had cancer maybe the beginning of August). I’ve been with the company for about 5 months now, so I am not that close to her on a personal level. I do my best to pick up more work, while she’s out, and she really appreciates it. My department signed a card and pitched in for a basket. I’ll text her from time to time. I think I am doing fine to support my boss during this tough time, but I wanted to know what other AAM readers did too!

    9. Book Badger*

      “How to write a cover letter” (which I revisit every time I write my cover letter, as a refresher) and the entire “interviewing” category. Job searching is going strong!

    11. tra la la*

      I need to search this over the weekend, but: how to push back when someone who doesn’t have authority over you oversteps AND you know that the person who does have that authority will likely let the overstepping slide. Curious to see what turns up.

  10. Moving for a new job?*

    I’m currently interviewing for a job with a company that has several offices, one of which is in my current city. For several reasons, both personal and professional, I think I would prefer to work at the company headquarters, though they are open to any location (as they all have pluses and minuses). Perhaps I’m overthinking this, but I’m trying to figure out the best way to discuss this. Essentially, I could start more quickly if I don’t have to move, so I was thinking that maybe I could start in my current city’s office and then move. Anyone with experience on this? I think my main fears are:
    1. They’d change their mind and not let me move later. Is this something I should have written into an offer letter?
    2. I’d actually find moving later more stressful than just getting it done in a few weeks before starting the new job. For reference, the move would be several states away.

    1. CAA*

      I’d tell them in your next interview that you’ve been thinking for a while about relocating and have made the decision to go ahead and move to city X, so because of that you would like to work out of the HQ office should they offer you the position. Because of the move, you wouldn’t be able to start until date x, where previously you’d given them date y.

  11. MassholeMarketer*

    I’m starting a new job soon (YAY!) and am currently in my resignation period at my job. You don’t realize how many different ways people can react to you leaving until you actually live it…

    • The person who’s angry but happy you’re doing better in life but still angry because now they have to pick up your work.
    • The person who starts ignoring you because they like to shut off their emotions and aren’t good at saying goodbye.
    • The person who is happy for you and then continuously asks questions about your job search and how you did it because they’ve been looking elsewhere.
    • The person who’s genuinely happy for you and says that losing you is a huge loss to the company (should’ve figured something out before I started looking, huh?)

    What kinds of characters have you run into when you put in your notice?

    1. Dinosaur Kale*

      The coworker who stopped talking to me entirely because I “betrayed” the org by leaving. That was a rough two weeks.

      1. Kelly AF*

        That happened to me in January when I left a job. She was one of two people I worked closely with and we shared a small cubical area. SUPER awkward week.

      2. Elizabeth*

        The clueless (male) boss who, immediately upon hearing me resign, asked if it was because of sexism. I was the only woman on a team with 9 men who were actually great coworkers, but if certainly says something about the overall culture of the company that this was his first question! The company had lost number of young women recently and doubtless my grandboss has been mentioning sexism as a possible reason – my boss was far too oblivious to think that on his own.

        The senior leader who helped throw me a surprise going away party and cried when she hugged me goodbye.

        The coworkers who shrugged and acted like they never cared about me in the first place.

    3. Environmental Compliance*

      The boss who cried for the two weeks before I left, and spent the two weeks lamenting that she was “losing a daughter” alternating with completely ignoring my existence.

    4. Ali G*

      A CEO who delegated my transition to the COO and then sent us a huge rant of an email how we didn’t do anything “she” wanted and how awful it was that I was leaving them so unprepared – 2 days before my last day (I gave 3 weeks notice)
      The boss who pushed me out and then acted as if the “loss” of me so awful (pretty much she didn’t want all the other people who were actually upset at my leaving to know she had caused it)

      1. Lissa*

        LOL! I guess in some ways that’s better than the person who hates you and then you leave and suddenly they act like they will miss you!

    6. LDP*

      I had the coworker who was the office bully call me a “lucky b****” when I told everyone I was leaving. I just let that one roll off my back because it was the least of her immaturity issues (she didn’t like me because we have the same, very common first name – and told me this on my first day working there).

      1. Close Bracket*

        I kind of wish you have replied, “yep,” with a giant, shit-eating grin, while staring right at her.

    7. Epsilon Delta*

      The boss who started every conversation with “there’s still time to change your mind!” Including at my last day going away party after work lol.

    8. Cambridge Comma*

      The colleague who mansplained to me what my new job was but never actually asked so has no idea what I’m doing next ashis assumption was incorrect.

    9. Tomato Frog*

      Timely, I just gave my notice today! I’ve actually been really touched by the reactions. They’ve all been on the spectrum of “happy for me but sorry to see me go” — with some people hitting the “sorry” part harder and some hitting the “happy” harder. Two people have congratulated me on “getting out”.

      Actually the one person whose reaction I’m worried about isn’t here today. She’s a friend as well as a coworker, and she knew I was probably leaving. Every time I’ve mentioned that I would likely be leaving, she would look like I just gave her a quick, light kick to the shin. :/

    10. irene adler*

      I saw a CEO of a small company actually go to the finance clerk’s office and call her a “chicken” because she was taking a new job.
      Course, this is the same guy who pushed a piano off a balcony and into a pool below it. He was angry.
      I’m glad he was able to restrain himself with the finance clerk.

    11. theletter*

      I had a boss who was supposed to send out the “wish Letter well, she’s leaving us”, but then he didn’t, he just started telling people at random, and I started doing the same. Cut to a week later, a new developer walks up to one of my coworkers and was like “what’s going on with Letter? Is she getting fired?” AWKWARD.

    12. Elisabeth*

      1) Bad-mouthing my next employer and telling me how much I’ll regret it! (They were sort of right one time but I also think them saying it affected my transition)
      2) HOW COULD YOU DO THIS TO US??????
      3) Cold, withdrawn, curt and disinterested in remaining pleasant to one another
      4) Tell me your secrets to GETTING OUT OF HERE.
      5) How could you not tell me you were looking before you left??? I thought we were closer than that! (The PARTNER at my last job).

    13. Anon nonprofit worker*

      Great question!

      The manager who was hostile and difficult throughout my entire tenure who was then oddly and uncomfortably friendly during the last week, even initiating an awkward goodbye hug and insisting I come back to visit.

      The coworkers who kept making repeated cryptic jokes about the owner trying to kill me after I gave my notice.

      The previously cool manager who started punishing me by making me do gross jobs that no one else wanted to do because I “was leaving”.

      The students who wrote me the sweetest letters that I actually cried when I thought about the fact that I wouldn’t see them again.

    14. Dragoning*

      I had a supervisor who wasn’t even my manager get angry at me because she couldn’t do her job without me.

      1. Dragoning*

        Oh man, or the manager who didn’t believe I had a new job because he made me cry at work the day before I got the offer from NewJob and gave my notice.

    15. Leela*

      The grandboss who I told multiples times about my boss: lying, manipulative, ineffective, childish. I provided examples and screenshots that proved those examples. I was constantly blown off, told that my boss was just learning, that we had to find a way to work together, she bet *I* wouldn’t be perfect or be happy if anyone expeted that of me either, etc. When I finally left after 11 months of being thrown under the bus, publicly lied about and falsely accused of dropping the ball, and in general mistreated the entire time, grandboss goes “well if you’d just TOLD me something was wrong, I would have fixed it!”

      I pointed out that I had brought it up, including screenshots that I’d sent about it. Crickets.

    16. S-Mart*

      The grandboss who trapped me in my own office and yelled (literally) at me for an hour how I was ‘stupid’ for leaving. A lot of why I was leaving was his toxic management, so this shouldn’t have been a shock.

      (layoff not a resignation) The boss who repeatedly (and badly) dodged the ‘you’re being laid off’ conversation until he could get HR to do it instead, and locked himself in his office and wouldn’t talk with me.

      Mostly a mix of mildly happy for me / mildly disappointed I won’t be around.

      The boss who overbooked my short meeting where I was going to resign with a short meeting to tell me my contract was being terminated.

      Several people who apparently forgot I was leaving for the entirety of my 2 or 3 week notice period until afternoon of the last day, when they suddenly want a full brain dump of everything I know about doing my job (especially entertaining the time when I was literally the only person in the company who did about 1/3 of my job).

    17. Let's Talk About Splett*

      My first professional job the boss who hired me left and the new boss & I never hit it off (I made mistakes, too, looking back) so she was obviously not sad when I put in my notice.

      It was a government job, so she already had a list of people who had taken the test for my position to interview, and managed to schedule a couple of interviews during my notice period, and after the interview she walked the candidates around to show them our office, introducing them to people and chatting with my coworkers for a minute or two. When boss got to me she introduced me and explained that I was the [my position] & metaphorically dragged both candidates away as soon as she could to introduce them to someone else – I guess she was afraid I’d scare them away?

    18. Close Bracket*

      The person who’s genuinely happy for you and says that losing you is a huge loss to the company (should’ve figured something out before I started looking, huh?)

      Oh, that person. :( Someone said that to me at a job I left, and it was actually really painful to hear. My lead hated my new ideas (probably bc I was the one having them instead of him), so there was a real emotional component to finding out that the thing I was constantly disparaged for was a thing that somebody else found valuable, and this whole time, I didn’t know. Knowing would have made hearing the disparaging much easier to take, and maybe I wouldn’t have left.

      I’ve got another person for you:

      The boss who decides you don’t exist anymore and stops speaking to you. That was pretty hurtful, too.

    19. Catherine*

      1. A lovely boss who I worked with for many years but who tended toward emotional blackmail ‘it’s not too late, why don’t you just stay’ -at 5pm on my last day when I went to say goodbye.
      2. One boss completely ignored me for the entire notice period. I was doing professional exams and won a prize – and Old Boss was very closely involved in the institute. At the prize giving ceremony, about a month after I left, she pointedly ignored me and then pretended she didn’t know who I was. She was generally very eccentric though – eg people ‘choose’ to be ill and if you are off sick it’s because you are lazy. How we laughed when she caught a very nasty cold.

    20. Lavender Menace*

      I had an interesting experience when I was a postdoctoral fellow (apprentice academic position) and I decided to quit and move onto an industry research position some time ago. I had the same range of characters as above, with another addition: the fellowship director, who was flustered/angry/upset and took about an hour of my time (billed as a standard ‘exit interview’) to lecture me about how difficult I was making it for him and the program because I was leaving for industry. He even subtly hinted that my leaving would make it more difficult for them to recruit and retain people in my specific underrepresented minority group. (No, no, there are several other reasons why it’s difficult for that particular institution to recruit and retain people in my group.)

    21. The New Wanderer*

      I was laid off rather than gave notice, but I still worked for ~2 months after the layoff was announced. In that time, several people I didn’t work closely with made points of coming to chat with me and say how much they thought it was a mistake to lay me off, how valuable/smart I was, etc. That really meant a lot.

      Several other people I considered to be almost mentors and had previously talked about my promising future at the company (which they could have helped make happen) didn’t say a word to me that entire time and didn’t attend my going away gathering. That stung a little, gotta admit.

      And it was pretty equally split across people I considered work-friends – some talked to me a lot, others didn’t even respond to the going-away email I sent. Oh well.

    22. Usagi Tsukino*

      The boss who made me read his 100+ taxi receipts and put the individual amounts into Excel. This was a consulting job where I was an analyst.

  12. Cakezilla*

    Best tips for dealing with toxic coworkers? Or supporting a loved one who is dealing with toxic coworkers?

    My partner has a coworker who is not working, getting upset at everybody else in the building, and sending tons of texts to my partner after work about how partner “ignored” them. It’s been super emotionally draining for partner and I want to be supportive as they figure out how to navigate this situation.

    1. alice*

      This sounds like borderline harassment which is an HR issue. But just in case he or she hasn’t gone through the steps:

      1. Asking the coworker to stop, verbally.

      2. Asking the coworker to stop in writing.

      3. Speaking to the manager.

      4. HR

        1. Ender*

          Sending multiple texts after being repeatedly told to stop is harassment in the legal sense, so I don’t see how it’s not in the HR sense. It’s technicaly stalking, so long as partner has been clear that the texts are unwanted.

    2. The Ginger Ginger*

      Is it a job requirement that partner be accessible to this person on the phone after hours? Can partner just block their number? That would at least keep toxic coworker from pushing their toxicity on partner at home.

      If not, can partner either send one text during the deluge of non-work texts, or talk to toxic coworker once at work to say, “Please only text me for X & Y related issues. I’m not available for non-work texts when I’m not at work.”

      Can partner go to their manager and say – “I’m having X & Y issues with Toxic coworker (not in a complaining way, just in a look for solutions way). Here’s how it’s impacting my work (outline the ways). I’ve tried A, B, C, but the issues aren’t resolved. How do you want me to proceed?”

    3. WellRed*

      “I won’t be ignored!”

      Seriously, though. Block here texts and report it to manager and if needed, to HR. Coworker sounds more than toxic.

    4. Quill*

      Let partner vent. In reality, not all jobs can be left without a complete career or location change, and it might take a while to build up to that sort of thing.

      Also, be ready to help enforce work / life boundaries if this coworker starts trying to impinge on the rest of partner’s life.

    5. Bea*

      Why does this person have your partners number?! Demand they stop and set up boundaries. Drag management into it if necessary. Unless they’re required to be available 24/7 even a salaried employee shouldn’t be dealing with this.

    6. LKW*

      Is it a work phone? Are there conditions on the phone (partner is on call, or the phone needs to be on for emergencies)?

      I would let my company issued blackberry die on Fridays so that it didn’t make a peep over the weekend. People who needed to reach me in an emergency had my personal cell.

      My dad was an attorney and he wouldn’t answer his cell phone after hours unless he first had the “my evening fee is 2x my daily rate and my weekend fee is 3x my daily rate” discussion with the client.

      I think your partner needs to take a little evil glee in ignoring text messages complaining about being ignored. But ultimately if this person starts to cross lines into “I will not be ignored!” territory, then your partner should go to HR because threats are not cool.

    7. Triple Anon*

      I would start by asking them to text an email address instead, preferrably the work one. Then block their number on the phone if possible. If necessary, Partner could say it has to do with their phone plan, or their phone (storage is full!), or wanting to keep all work communications in one place.

      Once you have everything going to email, start copying other people on responses when there is a reasonable justification for it. Some people will stop being so weird when they realize someone else might see it. Or a copied co-worker might let you know they’ve been experiencing the same thing, and then you can talk about what to do next.

      And, yes, when the coworker crosses a line, they need to be asked directly to stop. In writing. If they don’t respect that, the next step is to copy your manager and their manager.

      HR can really vary depending on the company, the situation, and the people involved. Use your best judgement about whether to say anything to them or leave them out of it.

  13. Jenna Maroney*

    I’m pretty sure my company is lying to an interviewee about the scope of the job they’re going to be doing. This interviewee is seriously overqualified for a receptionist job, and it’s seemingly a tradition with this job that everyone is lied to in some way during the interview process. What can/should I do?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      This is a tough situation for you, because if they don’t lie to this one receptionist, they’ll likely lie to another one, since you said it’s tradition. You could, in theory, try to change the culture, but the truth is that the best thing you can do is leave for a better place. They lied to you. They lied to a bunch of other people. They’re lying to this new receptionist. If this person doesn’t take the job, they’ll lie to the next candidate. And if you warn off every new candidate about the lying, you’ll likely be fired, so you might as well try to leave. Unless you’re the CEO or a board member, you’re not likely to completely overturn that kind of company culture.

      1. Jenna Maroney*

        We’re a team of receptionists at a hedge fund, employed by a (useless) contractor company. Blergh!!!!

    2. CAA*

      If you’re not part of the hiring process, the only thing you can really do is talk to the people who are conducting the interviews. You can raise a concern that this person is over qualified for the job as it’s always been defined in the past, and point out that this has led to people leaving quickly. You should also verify that they haven’t redefined the job and added more responsibility to the role though.

      If you are part of the hiring process, then you should be honest with the candidate about what tasks are and are not part of the role she’s interviewing for. She should be doing her due diligence and raising concerns if she hears different things from different interviewers.

      1. Queen of Cans and Jars*

        I never understand the “logic” of this. It doesn’t matter what you say to them, after you hire them, it’s going to become very obvious that the job is not what they’d expect, and then you have a very resentful new hire who’s likely going to leave, and then you’re in the same boat as you were before.

      2. designbot*

        Agreed, and I’d really lean into the message that it’s better for the company to find someone who will truly be happy in the role instead of fibbing to get someone overqualified.

    3. Bea*

      I’m confused by “overqualified” factor here. Do you know that the job seeker isn’t looking for a few steps back??

      I’m “overqualified” for my job but I was burnt on working 60hrs. I dropped from management and went back to just accounting. A lot of “wow you’re able to do so much more than this.” was met with “work life balance is my current focus.”

      You don’t expect to stay in a receptionist position too long term so if she needs a couple years to breathe or get a partner out of school or taking care of an elder etc…

      So I’m not sure if they’re lying or someone wants to step back?

      1. Jenna Maroney*

        It’s an hourly receptionist job, and she has an MBA from an Ivy. Also, every other receptionist was lied to to some degree during interviews.

    4. MissDisplaced*

      I don’t understand what’s going on exactly.
      Is the job being advertised as a receptionist? (And they’re promising more during interview.)
      Or is it being advertised as something more (such as marketing specialist) but is really only receptionist role?

      I ask because if you’re an applicant responding to a “receptionist” ad, generally you would know that requires answering the phones and so maybe that’s what the person wants. If the job ad is worded differently, you can speak up about posting the job advert correctly.

      1. Jenna Maroney*

        Depends on which recruiting firm she’s gone through. Some lie about the title, some lie about the duties, some “forget” to mention that you’re working for shady contractor company instead of the hedge fund itself.

        1. Bea*

          But doesn’t salary give it away? If I’m told it’s even Administrative Assistant and it’s actually answering a phone bank…I’m going to know that something is off with the wage somewhere.

          It is 2018 so jobs aren’t as sparse but every one of my friends have high quality top tier degrees and many work in retail or low level jobs.

          I make more than my MBA friends because of my background. If she’s fresh out of school, you don’t have a lot of options, degrees from top ranked schools get you so far on their own. Her parents must not have connections despite the education.

          It’s super tricky and I know your company sucks. And I’m less shocked now that you say they’re contracting. So it’s not even the hedge fund you work for, it’s a 3rd party agency they pay. So worse is that she thinks she’s in a mega important company but she’s not…

            1. Bea*

              I appreciate how thoughtful you are about not wanting anyone to be caught in the trap you see the company as. But I think you’re spinning this wildly and trying to protect a grown woman from herself.

              I hired an “overqualified” on paper person, in her 50s, for an admin job years ago. And she couldn’t v handle it. She had lots of cool schooling and was sure she was above and beyond. A receptionist job was more suited for her tbh.

              You’re spinning and I don’t blame you. You need to just loosen up a bit and know you can’t save anyone in most positions.

              I took a crappy job once. But I quit it immediately following the hell fire. I know you’re trapped and can’t quit but we’re not all in the same boat.

              1. Jenna Maroney*

                You’re right…. blergh. This is so frustrating. They’re also not telling the new hires that the contract is up for renewal in a month and if it’s not renewed (none of us think it will be considering how friggin’ incompetent they are), we’ll all be placed at different locations, most likely with a lower salary. This company SUUUUCKS.

          3. Jenna Maroney*

            (the rest of the team is early to mid twenties, so we’re not really sure what our new manager’s goal is)

  14. Disguise*

    I’m looking for feedback on if it’s worth asking for a resource/benefit when I know the answer will likely be no. When I was hired a few years ago, I had my own cube. About a year ago, my office did a reshuffling and is now very short on space. A solution at the time was for me and a coworker to share a cube and alternate work from home days (we’re the only people in the office who have to share a cube). While it’s not been awful, I would prefer for a variety of reasons to have my own space.

    We will be doing a very very modest shuffling of workspace soon so I was thinking of asking if it would be possible for me to get my own cube. The thing is, I very strongly think the answer will be no. Partially because I’m still going to be working from home three days a week (one day a week less than most of my colleagues but there is a perception that I’m essentially a remote employee) and partially because someone would have to be moved from a cube to these tiny, awful desks.

    Is it worth the ask or would it reflect poorly on me since it’s pretty clear this won’t be possible? On one hand, I think if they don’t know I want it, they won’t try and make it work. On the other hand, I’m worried about being seen as out of touch.

    1. Shark Whisperer*

      I think it’s worth asking. I don’t think you’ll come across as out of touch. You could even preface the question with, “I know this is a big ask, but since we are doing some reshuffling, would it be possible to get my own cube again?” I don’t even think you need to explain why you want your own cube, just through it out there.

      I am big proponent of just asking for what you want.

      1. Disguise*

        Thanks for your (and everyone else’s) reply! You don’t think it would help to provide reasons why I want it (from a business sense)? I also love saying “again.” Reminding them that this is not the norm. The norm is me having my own workspace.

        1. IL JimP*

          Since you’re working from home 3 out of 5 days saying this isn’t the norm is probably a step too far. My company does the same thing for people who are only in the office 1 or 2 days a week, there’s a real possibility you will be sharing a cube or maybe not even assigned one and would use a hoteling cube the days you are in the office

        2. Shark Whisperer*

          I think you can have reasons ready to go if they ask why, but I think if you just ask simply and wait (kind of like Alison suggests for salary negotiations), then the person you are asking will be more focused on whether or not it is possible rather than whether or not they think your reasons are valid.

    2. BethRA*

      I think if you acknowledge the difficulties they’re dealing with, and frame it as a “request if it’s at all possible” you’d be ok. If nothing else, there might be something they can do to make the sharing situation more palatable.

    3. CAA*

      You can definitely ask, and I don’t think it would be perceived as overstepping; but if you’re only in the office 2 days per week and the cubes are reserved for people who are there 4 or more days per week, the answer will probably be no. Your best option for getting a cube is if there are other people who are only in the office 1 or 2 days per week who have them.

    4. Contractor*

      I wouldn’t ask. You’re only in the office three days out of five in an office that is already tight on space. You’re right that it’s not ideal to have to share a desk, but I agree that asking this question could cause others to view you as out of touch. Also (and to me this is the bigger issue) is that for you to get your own desk you’d have to displace someone else and move them into a situation that you yourself dislike. I would ask your management if there are any plans to address the space issues in the office. If it’s that cramped, I’d suspect you’re not the only one feeling it’s effects. There may not be any plans, but it couldn’t hurt to ask.

    5. epi*

      I would ask.

      Your company obviously knows it is short on space and already moves things around occasionally, probably in part to deal with that. It’s likely that above you, people are or will be talking about how much more expansion your office can handle and when it will be time to move or have more than one site or whatever they need to do. Even if your request can’t be honored now, it is relevant to that larger discussion. I might even frame it that way, depending on your relationship with your boss.

  15. Red Reader*

    My employer just officially removed the salary history questions from our online application system and directed interviewers not to ask about it. Our annual engagement survey also, for gender, offered “non-binary” *and* “other” as options rather than just male or female. I am pleased all around.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      That’s great! Is it because the laws changed where you live? Or because your employer just decided it’s finally time to do it?

      1. Red Reader*

        No law change, they just opted to make the switch! (I’m hoping they start posting the salary ranges on job postings next.)

        1. Anonymous Educator*

          Excellent! I love it when places do the right thing because they should instead of because they have to.

    2. Decima Dewey*

      My library system added a standardized format for email signatures. There’s a section to add our pronouns. A friend put in “Why are you asking?” in that section for his email signature.

      I have a mandatory job class meeting next Wednesday. We had to fill out an online survey beforehand about what we know about Implicit Bias, so I know what part of the meeting will be about.

      Last week I worked at a different branch. The shorter commute was nice and it was good for some stuff to be officially Not My Problem, but waiting outside in triple digit heat index weather while waiting for someone with a key to the branch and the alarm code was not fun.

  16. Office Sponge Best Practices?*

    Just stared work at an otherwise great place, except the kitchen sponge is a mildewy nightmare. I washed a plate and my hand still smelled like the sponge an hour later. I never use sponges at home (Handi Wipes forever!) so I have no idea how to make it less gross, especially in an office setting where it’s used a ton. I know it’s unlikely I can totally solve it myself, but any tips on how to be the hygienic sponge change I want to see in the world?

    1. Teapot librarian*

      Buy new sponges. I think I’ve heard that office sponges should get replaced once a week. There’s no way that’s ever happening in the real world, but who knows the last time your office’s sponge was replaced!

    2. Sophie before she was cool*

      Is there a dishwasher or a microwave in the kitchen? Either one might help a bit. But it really sounds like it’s time for a new sponge. It might not be your place as the new person to bring one in, but they cost like 50 cents each and I’d expect someone to bring in a replacement pack.

      1. AvonLady Barksdale*

        Yes. As a temporary measure, microwave it for a minute or two. However, do NOT do this if the sponge has any metal or scrubby things on it. Then go buy a new one.

        1. Specialk9*

          It has to be wet or it’ll catch on fire. Even then, the studies show that doesn’t actually work, it just makes the colonies stronger. (But it helps the smell disappear).

          The solution is those green scrubbies that don’t hold water, or the special silicone Peachy Clean Scrubber, or those plastic net cloths.

    3. Red Reader*

      Ask whoever is in charge of ordering supplies if they can throw a packet of sponges on the next order. (Or bring your own handiwipes, heh.)

    4. Corky's Wife Bonnie*

      I bought one of those dish brushes for my own use that you can put soap in the handle and I bring it back to my desk and hide it. Work sponges are always gross.

      1. Xarcady*

        My company stocks each kitchen with one of those brushes. The people who clean the kitchens change out the sponge head every week.

      2. Kimberlee, Ranavain*

        Dish brushes are the key! Plus, you can just pop them in the dishwasher every couple of days. They still need to be replaced sometimes, but the sparser bristles just don’t leave as many nooks for germs to hide out in.

    5. LuckySophia*

      I use kitchen sponges from the Dollar Store: six in a pack for $1. Very cost-effective to toss when they get “ugly”.
      You can easily solve this problem on your own by buying a couple packs of Dollar Store sponges, and toss/replace as needed. (No, you shouldn’t HAVE to be responsible for this….but it might be just a heck of a lot easier to deal with it on your own, rather than trying to make “kitchen sponges” a matter of office policy/group consensus.)

    6. Tara S.*

      Lots of good replies. I would also add:
      1. if you have a dishwasher, put the sponge in the dish washer. It’ll still eventually degrade, but it’ll help it be cleaner longer.
      2. Throw the sponge away. My office sink often has multiple sponges, and I finally just threw the worst one away because no one else would. This may be “former admin” me taking charge, but it’d been months and I’m not in charge of the interns who ought to notice this stuff.
      3. Talk to the admin/whoever is in charge of the kitchen. Ask them about ordering new sponges, or a dish brush, and possibly putting up a sign asking people to wring out the sponges before they put them back. (This is a big pet peeve of mine, when people leave a sponge FULL of water just laying around. Faster mildew buildup .)

    7. AMPG*

      Microwave it! Get it fully wet (but not dripping), put it on a plate if possible, then microwave for two minutes. The plate is there to take it out when you’re done – DO NOT TOUCH the sponge immediately after microwaving, because you’ve just boiled all the water in it. Rinse, and the smell should be gone.

    8. Quill*

      Throw the sponge out.

      If necessary, come up with an accident that makes it no longer useable. Repeat whenever a sponge looks elderly / suspicious / developing sentience.

      Sponges are meant to be replaced or deep cleaned weekly. Arranging an accident for one every other month is the only way to ensure that it remains relatively safe to use, because nobody ever replaces the things…

      Personally? I would never use a sponge I didn’t unwrap myself. Dish rags are more sanitary.

    9. Hillary*

      My office uses bottle brushes (the baby kind that have a suction cup on the bottom). They’re easy to rinse so they get a little less gross and they go in the dishwasher every time it’s run. The suction cups mean they have an opportunity to dry.

    10. Bea*

      I’m sorry if this sounds shtty but did you look under the sink? Are there new sponges there?

      We buy in bulk. The overflow is below the sink. Most new folks don’t know and older folk don’t bother remembering, let alone mentioning.

      If no. Then ask the person who orders them. They may have a different storage area but there is one, so unless a coworker brings one in randomly, there should be a supply somewhere!

    11. MissDisplaced*

      Find a Dollar Tree or something similar and buy a stiff bristle dish brush.
      I also hate sponges, and at home I’ve replaced with the brush which gets a whole lot less nasty.

    12. RabbitRabbit*

      I bought a silicone scrub pad from Amazon and hid our mildewy sponge wand under the sink. It hasn’t re-emerged, and silicone pads (with little tiny ‘teeth’/’bristles’) have few ways to get gross.

    13. Bea*

      I’m super bristling at everyone saying to personally buy things. Do not invest even a dollar in this communal kitchen WTF!!!

      1. Miso*

        Well, sometimes you don’t have a choice.
        If we didn’t buy sponges for work, we wouldn’t have them. Or coffee. Or milk.
        Hell, I even had to bring my own microwave, that sucked…
        But what can you do?

      2. RabbitRabbit*

        Pfft. Forget that.

        I could either go to Amazon and drop $10 on 3 basically-last-forever silicone scrubbies (two of which are still new and tucked away in the drawer in case something happens to the first one) that I got in 3 days, or I can put in a request with the departmental secretary who then has to try to source something like that through an approved supplier and god knows if they can even find the thing at all and meanwhile we would all still be suffering with some limp nasty sponge.

        1. Bea*

          Approved supplier? Lol that’s some government level bullsht. We buy everything through Amazon like normal folks.

          I’ll just take my dishes home sooner than ever supply a company with resources. But I’m only ever working for for-profit small businesses where we purchase supplies and code them to office expenses.

          1. RabbitRabbit*

            Not-for-profit medical/educational institution. We *could* buy outside of approved suppliers but then compensation/invoicing gets a little weird and I’d rather not deal with the accounting system hassle (which is an upgrade from the last system but sucks in different ways, and at least everyone who’s been around for a while knew how the old system sucked and how to deal with that).

            We’ve had several months now of a nice, not-stinky dish scrubber. Totally worth it, even if you don’t use the thing because you don’t have to see/smell some limp and nasty sponge.

            1. Bibliovore*

              “I’m super bristling at everyone saying to personally buy things. Do not invest even a dollar in this communal kitchen WTF!!!”

              oh please. Feeling a little heat here. Would like a little well-done. Glad you could do that.
              I buy our supplies. I buy our snacks. I buy our coffee. Tissues and sponges.
              I have a 401 k. A roof over my head. Enough for the groceries, the internet, books, and pet stuff.
              When I was a classroom teacher, I spent over 1,500 a year for classroom supplies.
              I know I was not alone.
              I can’t pay the employees more. The University does not buy these things.
              I got here and bought a microwave and a coffee maker. Mr. Bibliovore gave us a Keurig a few years ago. I pick up milk on Mondays.
              I am grateful that I can go to COSTCO once a month and our work-quality-of-life is good.
              I have a cohort of volunteers, interns and students who work above and beyond the call of duty. I spend my life at work. Why not buy supplies on my own dime if I can?

            2. Observer*

              It still shouldn’t be that big of a deal. We generally use a small number of suppliers, mostly for practical reasons. But, the kinds of supplies being mentioned here are hardly esoteric, hard to find, or expensive. Nor is it necessary to worry about the quality. So, it’s pretty stupid that you can’t have the admin who orders supplies just do it.

      3. Ender*

        Sheesh it’s a dollar. Get over it.

        OP if you can’t afford to drop a dollar on a new sponge, then put in a request for a new sponge. On the other hand, if you can afford a dollar, buy a new sponge!

      4. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

        *shrug*

        I have invested a few £ here and there on things like this. For me I’d rather have the convenience of having whatever it is we need right away (trash bags, clean sponges, milk) than wait for someone from the office to buy it and bring it to site. If I really wanted to I could claim the money back but I’ve only ever spent *maybe* £5 per year on such things.

        I will happily bring in treats now and then when the mood strikes me, so buying some other shared thing that we all benefit from seems to be pretty much the same thing IMHO.

    14. Temperance*

      There are no best practices when it comes to a shared sponge. Just don’t use it. I bring my dishes home and run through the dishwasher.

      1. Windchime*

        Yes, this. I wash as well as I can with hot soapy water and a paper towel, then bring my dish home and wash it. No way am I washing mine with a sponge that other people have been using on their dirty dishes.

        1. Jo*

          I do this too. When I was working at a non-profit as a temp position, one of the employees there told me to use paper towels and hot, soapy water to clean my dishes since I brought in my own lunch. My new office also has a shared kitchen, so I’ll use a damp paper towel and running water to rinse containers out, and then do a deep clean at home because, like you said, “No way am I washing mine with a sponge that other people have been using on their dirty dishes” and because people in the office bring in food that’s usually trapped in the sponge.

    15. Kittymommy*

      One caveat to the throw it away response, make sure your office is the one paying for it and not staff. My organization does not and cannot pay for items like this, so these things are bought by random staff, myself included. If I saw something I bought had been thrown out and not replaced, is be pissed.

    16. Kathleen_A*

      I just no longer use The Sponge. I used to from time to time, but a couple of months ago, The Sponge was such an extravaganza of mold and mildew that I had to wash my hands in hot soapy water *three* times before I could get rid of the smell. (After one thorough hand-washing didn’t get rid of the smell, I took that thing and buried it deep in the trash so no one would see it and think, “Ooh, somebody accidentally threw away a perfectly good sponge.”)

      Then two months later, there was an entirely new spongy extravaganza of mold and mildew, and I buried that in the trash, too.

      So I’ve given up on The Sponge. But the idea of buying a package of cheap ones and replacing it on the sly is pretty good, I’d say, so long as you don’t mind subsidizing the office’s sponge usage.

    18. Catwoman*

      Microwaving is a good suggestion. Also if you have a kettle, but the sponge in the sink and pour boiling water over it as you’re making tea or coffee.

    20. Cat Herder*

      Bring your own handiwipes or sponges and don’t share them. Seriously, do not share them. Get a cup or mug to put it in and keep it in your office.

      Or use paper towels.

      Don’t touch the shared sponge. Eeeewwwwwwww.

    21. Student*

      Throw this sponge away and replace it.

      Future sponges that just need a little help: boiling something for 10 minutes (roiling boil that whole time) kills nearly all microbes – should fix anything you’d get on a sponge.

  17. Lyman Zerga*

    Our director was unexpectedly out of the office during a time that he was supposed to complete a very, very important project. He delegated this task to me and my colleague Janet.

    I knew Janet’s schedule was out-of-control busy, and mine was less so, so I offered to take the lead. (Plus, I’d like to do more work on these types of projects in the future, and it’s something my boss and I have discussed.) I told her I would do 70% of the work, and she just needed to provide 30%. I finished my 70% right away, but I kept waiting…and waiting…and waiting on her 30%. In the end, I probably did 95% of the work, and she contributed 5%, at the last minute when the deadline for this project had almost passed.

    I don’t harbor any ill-will toward her, and it’s not affecting our ability to work together on other things. But I know my boss is going to ask how this project went, and it is very much NOT the culture of our organization to place blame on others/talk about others in a negative light. But since I’d like to do more work on these projects, it’s important that I give him an accurate picture of how much the success of this project was a result of my efforts. How can I do this without reflecting negatively on my coworker?

    1. Anna Held*

      Tell the truth — she had so much other work she made a much smaller contribution. You had offered to take the lead and do this work for the experience, and she graciously agreed. Everyone won. You’re looking forward to doing more such projects in the future.

    2. Schnoodle HRM*

      Janet was really busy and wasn’t able to contribute as much as she planned, but still helped with X and Y. This left me learning tons about A, B and C and happy to report everything was completed on time.

    3. Monty and Millie's Mom*

      Could you frame it in a way that says that you took the lead b/c of Janet’s other commitments, but you appreciated her assistance with the specific part she did?

    4. pleaset*

      It’s not blamey to say “The output was good I think . In terms of process, Janet was so swamped she wasn’t able to contribute much, until a little bit of good stuff at the every end.”

    5. Nanc*

      Just be matter of fact. Explain the initial breakout of 70/30 and then say Janet’s schedule didn’t allow her to focus that much time so you took on more and she was able to provide A, B and C to make sure it was finished.

      If you’ve had a good working relationship with her she may honestly have believed she could contribute more. Who knows why she didn’t say anything when she got behind but unless it’s a pattern, I’d let it go.

    6. Kelly AF*

      I would actually just focus on what you did and not even mention Janet, if possible. “I did a, b, c, x, and y. This is what I did, here’s how they turned out, here’s what I learned, I’d do z differently next time.” Presumably your boss will be able to put the rest together, while still having the conversation be about what you did, not Janet.

    7. Mockingjay*

      Rather than focus on what Janet did or didn’t do, describe what you did, what the problems were and how you mitigated those for a successful outcome.

      I also might analyze realistic staffing and scheduling needs for similar projects and present the results, if you think this is a problem which may occur again. You want to showcase your planning and problem solving skills. Make it about you, not her.

    8. Not So NewReader*

      “Janet, was doing A, B and C, already. So I pulled the bulk of the project back onto myself. I am super interested in doing these types of projects so I think that interest helped me to move right along.”

    9. Ender*

      It’s not really reflecting negatively on her to say she was too busy and didn’t do it because other things were a priority. So just be clear that you did 95% of the work and she was too busy so only did 5%.

  18. Jenna Maroney*

    No question, just annoyed: I’m having my job threatened over taking time off from work to deal with a miscarriage, but the pregnant women in corporate get comfortable maternity leave. Infuriating.

    3. TonyTonyChopper*

      This is why my coworker did not tell anyone at work (besides me since we are going through fertility struggles together) when she had her miscarriage earlier this year. She just told everyone she had to have surgery and would be out for X days for recovery. Luckily no one required her to provide a doctor’s note or anything, although I’d hope that her OB would have provided something if she had to.

      1. TonyTonyChopper*

        Left unsaid, but shouldn’t have been – I am really sorry you’re having to deal with this BS. It is NOT OK.

      2. Jenna Maroney*

        Yep, I’m actually the second employee in under a year to be driven out due to appts for their miscarriage. After the first girl was fired, she whistleblew and like 7 higher ups were all fired. You’d think they would have learned to not repeat the same mistake in a single year, especially with the contract up in a month????

        1. Specialk9*

          So… Lesson learned to whistleblow? There is an online reporting form for labor law violation. (US at least)

    4. Tara S.*

      I’m so sorry. It doesn’t sound like your workplace is the kind of place that would really respect the law/not try and push back against you using the law, but I believe (and a quick google seems to back me up) that miscarriage is a medical condition covered under FMLA. So you’re well within your rights to take the leave. Small comfort in the face of your situation, I realize. I hope you are able to find healing and time for yourself, the grief alone always takes longer to deal with than some people think.

      1. Jenna Maroney*

        It happened a year ago, I’ve been experiencing physical complications ever since. Lots of bleeding :/

        1. fposte*

          That seems likely to be covered under FMLA–it’s a chronic problem. Ask your doctor if she’ll sign the paperwork and submit it.

    6. Bend & Snap*

      I’m so sorry. I didn’t get any time off after mine and it was awful just having to go to work like nothing was wrong.

      I agree that FMLA sounds like the right way to protect both your health and your job right now.

    7. Faith*

      That sucks. My company doesn’t do anything shady for medical appointments, but if it’s not you but your partner that had a miscarriage – you are SOL. My coworker had to blow through 2 weeks of his paid time off and another week unpaid when his babies were stillborn and 20 weeks and his wife nearly died. No bereavement leave, nothing else of the sort. Thankfully, our boss was super understanding and flat out told the coworker that he can take as much time as his family needs and “the work will get done – family comes first”. Still sucks though that you are essentially at your supervisor’s mercy and don’t have any protections.

    9. Manatees are cool*

      I’m so sorry, that’s simply awful what you are having to deal with. I hope that in the future that you get a boss who is capable of feeling empathy.

  19. Snark*

    Does anybody have good strategies for dealing with being pulled in 6 different ways? I’m the environmental planning guy, the natural resources manager, the cultural resources manager, and the purchase cardholder, plus escorting contractors, plus helping out with the fuel storage tank compliance program, and I am completely flattened by the end of the day. Just switching, mentally, from approving work orders to writing a consultation letter to filling out a form to calling the tank contractor to standing in a field watching guys drill holes….it’s A LOT.

    1. Red Reader*

      Is any of it stuff you can schedule? “Work order review and mindless form filling, Tuesdays between 9-11” or some such?

      1. Environmental Compliance*

        +100. I schedule time for all the environmental compliance & sampling I do. Makes it easier for a brain switchover from mucking in a pond taking stormwater samples to writing pest control SOPs to being a killjoy on installing new equipment (I’m going to get a stamp that says NO, hold up, you need a permit for this action).

          1. Snark*

            Yeah, that’s a fair point. Or just schedule out the week. For so long, I’ve been just wandering into work and plugging along on two or three long-term, big, but self-directed projects.

          2. motherofdragons*

            I do this most days, but especially those when I’m going to need to dedicate time to a bundle of different projects. I close my e-mail and put my phone away for those 10 minutes to really focus on plotting out my day. And then, I actually block those times on my calendar so that I can see my “schedule” for the day but also so that coworkers know what I’m up to (and hopefully won’t bug me with anything not urgent).

        2. Wannabe Disney Princess*

          That’s my job. I don’t have a set schedule day to day. It’s physically impossible.

          My stuff all has different cut off times throughout the day (vendors, union, subs, etc.). I know that the morning is always going to be mindnumbingly bonkers. But, I also know, that the stuff I get for subs can be done later in the afternoon. So when I get something for one at 9 in the morning screaming hot…I know it can wait. Whereas the next day order that I get at 9 cannot because the vendor’s cut off is at 10:30.

          I’ve programmed Outlook* so that anything with the words “Next Day” (or overnight or whatever) come through red and bolded. Subs are in an italic olive font. Etc. That way I can tell, at a glance, what needs to be done and roughly plot out how much time I need for each.

          I also drink an absurd amount of coffee.

          *It’s called Conditional Formatting and it’s under View Settings. (I think.)

        3. AMPG*

          This is what I do. I do all the grant-writing for my employer, plus I supervise the IT Director, plus I oversee one of our direct-service programs, plus some long-term planning stuff on an “as-needed” basis. So I hear you. I find I’m most focused when I take five minutes before leaving to block out what I’m working on when the next day.

    2. MechanicalPencil*

      Can you speak with your boss/direct supervisor and list out your duty areas (on paper for the visual?) and ask which you should prioritize because this is what your typical day looks like (and describe the above) and sometimes it’s hard to juggle everything all at the same time. As I recall, this is a new position for you, so I’m not sure if it’s a “well Snark can handle this too!” type thing or what’s going on.

      1. Snark*

        It’s not really an issue, so much, that I can’t get it all done or that I don’t know which to prioritize. We’re 33% staffed, so there’s a lot of “RED ALERT WE NEED TO DO THING” and it’s all hands on deck, but it’s mostly all manageable within the day. It’s just that wrenching myself into six different headspaces is proving itself exhausting.

        1. MechanicalPencil*

          Ah, one of those — I was thinking this was just a situation of piling on the new guy. Any hope of increasing that staffing number so that you only wear like 3 hats instead? Maybe trade off who does the escorting of the contractors around? That seems the most…trade-able duty.

          1. Snark*

            New hazmat guy gets here in early October. We’re gonna be all falling on our knees, treating him like Messiah returned.

    3. Almost Violet Miller*

      I’m in a similar situation. My former manager suggested I write down my tasks (or at least the different hats I’m wearing) and quantify how much time I’m spending on each. This could help in hiring someone new on my team.
      If that’s not an option (and I doubt it is for me), can you schedule certain tasks for one afternoon each week? For me it’ll be Friday afternoon creating accesses for our internal systems if I have to rationalize – this is usually not urgent and ppl will need to get into the habit of sending me thibgs the week before if they need then done for the next week.

    4. LCL*

      Ha ha ha ha ha. That’s me laughing uproariously at some other sucker (besides me) being stuck with underground fuel storage tank compliance, and miscellaneous escorting contractor duty when the division that set up the visit can’t be bothered.
      I’m not going to search your old posts, but I remember you as being some kind of chemist. Think of ways to explain whatever your core job duties are supposed to be to the other work groups that think ‘Snark is on site, we will just get him to do it.’ Delegate whatever you can. When someone asks you to do some task outside your normal scope, tell them you will do it at specific date/time. When people outside the group and division realize they can’t get you to jump instantly they often back off. My experience has been the environmental compliance people are the worst at trying to get others to do their work for them, your experience may differ.

      1. Snark*

        The problem is, we’ve got three people, including my boss, to cover an office that should have 6 to be fully manned – so when contractors are onsite, welp, someone needs to do it, because this installation has security so bonkers we can’t let them get more than 10 feet from us.

        Also, I cannot wait for the new hazmat guy to get here, because he gets tanks. Enjoy that shit, sucka.

    5. The Ginger Ginger*

      Would a Kanban “board” help? Especially if tasks are shared across your team. Issues/tasks are listed in priority order (and added into the list by priority as needed). As one task is completed, just grab the next task off the top and knock it out. Task goes from back log to in progress to complete on the board as the status changes. Everybody can see what’s in the queue, what’s in progress and who’s doing what. It can be a really great way to get stuff done. Obviously, doesn’t work for all settings/situations, but maybe it could help you?

      Also, helps you keep track of everything so you’re not holding onto a to do list in your head.

      2. Specialk9*

        I just learned about this today and was thinking it might be a solution. Basically everything is a card and you finish one and pluck the next task off. (I believe.)

    6. Bea*

      I’ve always been pulled in every direction, my job now effectively eliminated that aspect of my life and as I heal from my last nightmare I’m missing the pulling TBH.

      My only advice is to breathe and let people know that you’ll need a minute before you address their issues whenever necessary. Being able to be assertive and reset the pace is key to survival. I drown last time because they refused to allow me to say “this takes priority, I’ll be with you after lunch” or what have you.

      Have you always been in this spot of being the center of the wheel? If not, it’s exhausting but becomes easier. If so and they’re being overly demanding or you’re overly demanding of yourself, it’s all about the refocus. And tbh if you can’t, it’s not a failure by any means. That position is hard AF to be in and takes a very specific mindset and internal motivation. I thrive on being busy and never slow down until I’m dropping into bed.

      1. rear mech*

        Bea is absoutely right about taking a moment and starting your reply with, “let me get to a stopping point on this…” While I do this my hands are busily arranging things and setting tools in their proper place, but for some sort of writing or research task you could be writing a sticky note to prompt yourself when you turn back to the original task. I have to do this even before having a proper conversation with the interrupter about what they need, but maybe it’s not necessary if you’re not a flighty adhd sort of person.

      2. TootsNYC*

        years ago, the magazine I worked at did a work-stress study and found that people who can’t control the pace of their work have the highest stress.

        I realized that was me!

        Everyone brought me things and expected me to do them right away. But few of them were THAT urgent.

        I got fierce about using my in-box as a to-do list. If someone brought me some issue, I made them write it on a piece of paper (or I did–sometimes just their name, which freaked them out) and put it in my in-box.
        Every time I finished a task, I went to the In-box and reprioritized from top to bottom.

        That way I wasn’t pulled lots of different directions–I WENT in different directions, at the time and pacing that *I* chose. Sure, some stuff is important, but I could group certain things, or shift gears to get a chance to clear my head, etc.

        It was very analog, but by gum it worked!

        1. Mad Baggins*

          That is absolutely my experience. The stress for me comes from feeling out of control, feeling like I can’t predict or control how and when I work. I love to optimize, so if I have to sit somewhere and supervise something or wait for a task to be completed, I’d like to use that time to multitask so I can get both done faster. Of course there are some things we can’t control about the pace and type of work coming in, but doing anything to regain some semblance of control and choice would definitely help.

    7. rear mech*

      ugh, this is my life and I don’t really have real advice. I got better at it over time as I gained more experience and more tasks could be done on autopilot. Simply doing more repetitions of my tasks, as well as consciously following the same order of operations for similar tasks, also meant it was easier to pick up where I left off after the inevitable interruptions. Try to not fall into feeling disrespected. However, perhaps this was the case for me because my “real job” was constantly being interrupted by rando members of the general public who needed “customer service” and will not be a problem for you. hopefully!

    8. Not So NewReader*

      I can’t picture this being done all from a desk, so I think you have drive time? My husband used to use his drive time to sort out the next thing coming up. This could include, questions he needed to ask, things he needed to check on and materials for the task. He would organize this stuff in his mind while he drove. (Being alone in the car no one could interrupt his train of thought.)

      From my own experience, I cannot recommend highly enough, having a set bedtime and going to bed at that time every night. Oddly, chicken or salmon for dinner at night seemed to make my mind clearer/more agile the next day. It’s a soft boost in how the brain works, I noticed the difference the most when I did NOT have chicken or salmon, I was way more draggy.

      A drink with electrolytes in it can also help the brain and body function better.

      You also have a new job right? So you have a doubly whammy, new job plus lots of hats. We do work into handling more and more at a job, so things like a set bed time and what is for dinner can be temporary measures to pull us through to the point where the job becomes more automatic.

      Another thing I like to do to lessen the brain drain for the next day is make a list of what I plan to do. Some things have to be done, but some things can slide until afternoon or until the next day. I would mark the things that had to be done so stuff did not get by me. Making that list helped me to sleep better, because the list was a form of a brain dump. Having it all on written out helped to prevent me reviewing my work day at 2 am.

      1. Snark*

        It’s a pretty constrained area, but there are times when I can use drive time. And really appreciate your other suggestions – diet is huge, so is listing and planning.

    9. NW Mossy*

      This is a good moment to put as many non-work things on auto-pilot that you can. Things like planning out a week’s worth of dinners/outfits/whatever and then just moving through a set rotation for a few months can really help to decrease your mental load. Yes, Taco Tuesday gets old, but it’s also a relief to think “it’s Taco Tuesday and I know exactly how to make that happen without thinking very hard.”

      Similarly, if you can delay other major changes in your life during this stretch, do so. Your capacity to absorb change is pretty much maxed out, so things like getting a pet or starting some new fitness regime will just add to your burden no matter how rewarding they are. Give yourself space to check out of those things to the extent you can, knowing that you can pick them back up in 3-6 months when you’re in a better spot.

      1. Snark*

        Funny you mention this, because I’m also trying to lose weight and change my fitness regime right now, and it’s been damn near impossible. I already plan meals, but I need to cut down on errands, tasks, and stuff like that.

      2. TootsNYC*

        also–what can you automate at work? How can you streamline there?
        Where can you take the tedium out?
        Or where can you take the decision-making out? In copyediting, we make style guides so we don’t have to re-decide whether to use “have proved” or “have proven” each time.

        Can you partially fill out all the forms (company name, etc.) and then photocopy them all off, and fill in the blank spots when it’s time? (That’s how I got a handle on health-insurance forms!)

  20. Meredith Brooks*

    I’m going to have to tell my staffer that her area looks like a hoarders den and she needs to clean up. I am not looking forward to this. Would appreciate hearing from others who may have had to do the same or experienced the other side.

    Thanks!

    1. Teapot librarian*

      Don’t use the word “hoarder” in a moment of pique. I did that. It did not turn out well. (It was not premeditated!)

      1. Teapot librarian*

        But seriously, be prepared to share the reasons why it’s a problem that her area looks like a hoarder’s den. It reflects poorly on the department, or it’s a fire hazard, or it is impacting other people in the department because the stuff is in the way, or…

        1. Meredith Brooks*

          I have a relatively valid reason, we’ve got some pests and with the amount of stuff she’s got back there, there’s no way to spray her cube effectively.

          She’s a sensitive sort. So, I don’t anticipate this going well no matter what I say. (she’ll be embarrassed and cry. or she’ll be offended and cry. or she’ll be indifferent and do the bare minimum)

          1. Tara S.*

            That’s great, it means you can be really matter-of-fact with her. “Hey, we’ve been having a pest problem and we need to make sure all the offices are arranged so that the pest people can spray. Be sure to [do X to her office] before {date pest people come]!” That way it feels less like you’re singling her out, just making sure the office is uniformly ready.

            2. Kathleen_A*

              I like this phrasing a lot. Do give her a fair amount of notice, though. Cleaning a big mess takes time, and you don’t want her to have to chose between fulfilling an important deadline and cleaning her office.

          2. TootsNYC*

            just make it all about the task:

            And maybe not make HER the subject of the sentence:

            “The facilities people need you to clear that stuff out so they can spray, and they also need for it not to come back.”

            And if she gets embarrassed and cries, let her. She has a right to her emotions, and the best possible way to help her in that moment is to leave all the responsibility for her emotions on HER court.

            Assume that she’ll get over her crying soon enough–don’t act like the tears, etc., are a problem for YOU (bcs it bothers you–act like it doesn’t), or a problem for HER that you need to solve.

    2. Baby Fishmouth*

      By ‘hoarders den’ what exactly do you mean? Is it really disgusting (i.e. molding food) or crazy (piles and piles of knickknacks)? Or is it just that she has a lot of papers on her desk? How you approach this really depends on what kind of messy it is.

      1. Meredith Brooks*

        I can’t confirm molding food, but I did once find a cake knife with some crumbs encrusted on it in a file cabinet. (She has some old departmental binders that I needed to look at). Generally, it’s on the crazy side… a LOT of personal paraphenalia. Clothes, bags, shoes, books. She’s run out of space in her own cube and has started encroaching on the empty cube behind her.

        There’s also a pest problem in the office and I honestly believe that unless she cleans up her area, we’ll just keep having issues, because they can’t spray her area effectively.

        1. Red Reader*

          There’s your go – “We’re having folks in to spray for pests this weekend, all personal items must be taken home and all office property put away for security and safety reasons.”

        2. Icontroltherobots*

          Say this – exactly this.

          “Jane, building management says they can’t spray your area effectively, can you please remove everything from the floor? It needs to be taken home permanently starting today, let me know if you need boxes”

          Say this to everyone, make it an office thing, spring cleaning!

        3. Indie*

          I used to work in a newspaper office where it was common for reporters to work inside towering piles of ancient newspapers and old press releases. Food, too with some of them. Clean desk policies were just ignored because the culture was ingrained. When we we were due to have weekend redecorating work done the editors said that anything still out on desks was going to be binbagged Friday night. It was definitely the only thing that worked. Hoarders would rather hide stuff or resite it than lose it. You have a great excuse as the pest chemicals would ruin things anyway.

          1. Teapot librarian*

            When I had this discussion with my hoarder about one particular piece of his hoard, he offered to move it so that it wasn’t in his office. No, dude, no. You don’t need it, I don’t need it, the office doesn’t need it, it’s going in the recycling.

    3. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Be prepared for her to question you and/or get defensive because “this doesn’t affect anyone else.” I know someone who keeps her work area absolutely filthy and uses that excuse. Unfortunately (well, fortunately, I suppose), she doesn’t leave unpackaged food around, so there are no bugs, but it’s still gross to look at all of her junk. So focus on the space encroachment you mentioned and ESPECIALLY on the bugs. That stuff absolutely needs to stop. For all of the other stuff, ask her if you can help her put together an organization system. Maybe some nice storage bins or something will help you and her; if she tosses her stuff in a bin or a box, it’s all in one place.

      1. Lorna D*

        Also be prepared for this person to say that this is truly the method that works best for them (it is for me too. I can pull anything out of a pile I’ve created, I know exactly where it is. If I put it in a desk it’s like it’s been wiped off the face of the earth and deleted from my memory. This forces me to spend a huge part of my time adding reminders to Outlook or heavily maintaining a Trello, both of which detract a lot from me actually being able to do my job, and it’s incredibly frustrating that I have to do my job worse because of looks)

    4. HoorayCollegeFootball*

      We are fortunate in that our annual fire inspection gets a lot of hoarders cleaning up. They don’t like to see floors with nothing more than small paths through the stacks of papers. We also had our new top boss come through our spaces and he made remarks to our immediate boss, who instructed people to clean up their offices. Our hoarders mostly just have stacks and stacks of paper – and they just don’t want to throw anything away. Even though they’d never be able to find it if they really need it, and come to me half the time because I probably have it electronically.

    5. About to get an offer*

      I wasn’t a hoarder but I did have a messy desk, my boss mentioned it casually and i wasn’t bothered at all.

    7. Bea*

      Don’t make it sound even remotely like a suggestion. Make it a clear direction.

      The scripts offered are good. Stick with short and to the point. “We have pests. All cubes must be cleaned, nothing can be stored on the floor. I will throw it away if I see it happening.”

    8. Marley*

      One of my relatives suffers from hoarding syndrome, and something to keep in the back of your mind is that your staffer in no way sees the mess the way you do. It’s a completely different way of thinking about things, and you will guaranteed upset her by asserting yours.

      That said, you don’t have to be her counselor about this topic. Be clear, matter of fact, and tell her exactly what she needs to do and why. If she cries, oh well–just stay calm and matter of fact. “I see this upsets you, but unfortunately it still needs to be done. Here’s a big recycling bin. Talk to ___ if you need anything else.”

      1. TootsNYC*

        It’s a completely different way of thinking about things, and you will guaranteed upset her by asserting yours.

        Meredith Brooks doesn’t have to assert ANY “way of thinking about things.”
        She can focus solely on the tasks that have to be done, not WHY, and not the “values” behind them.

        She doesn’t need to try to “fix” her employee, nor does she need to get her employee to AGREE with her; she just needs to make it clear what actions need to be taken.

    9. theletter*

      I’ve been asked to clean up – I was stressed and had let a stack of notebooks pile up in a small space. I tossed the notebooks and didn’t speak back to the office manager about it.

      What’s the worst that can happen? that she says no? finds another job? Takes a Friday afternoon to just take out the trash and let herself breath a little?

    10. Chaordic One*

      I recall being offended when someone said this about my work area. The big deal was that I was swamped with work and in an attempt to prioritize I let filing fall to last place. I had the various piles of papers stuck in several of those alphabetical sorters and then placed on top of the file cabinets. It wasn’t great, but it was the best I could do while I was putting out fires elsewhere. Every once in a while they’d send an intern to help with it and that was nice.

  21. Itty Bitty Betty*

    Does anyone have suggestions on how to deal with wrist pain from constantly being on a computer?

    I have a gel wrist wrest in front of my keyboard, a mouse pad with a gel wrist rest, and a vertical mouse, which seem to help a little, but my wrists are still sore all the time.

    1. Annie Moose*

      Do you do any wrist exercises? Look up carpal tunnel exercises and do some throughout the day–they really help me.

      1. Techworker*

        Is it possible to get advice from a doctor/physio? My friend ended up not being able to type at all for a few months when wrist pain got worse.. exercises might help? They also have some kind of forearm support to wear which apparently helps

      2. Nobody Special*

        Great suggestions, and your employer may pay for a worksite assessment and some adaptive equipment because that could prevent a workers comp claim down the road. or you may choose to report this as a mild injury now and if covered pursue evaluation and pt… better that now than surgery later. )

    2. irene adler*

      Assure the chair you sit in is at the proper height.
      I found too low caused wrist pain for me.
      Need the chair height such that your elbows are bent at 90 degrees so that the lower arm, wrist, hands are horizontal.

      1. Cotton Headed Ninny Muggins*

        I purchased an armrest that attaches to the table for just such a problem. It’s helped me out a lot.

    3. Wannabe Disney Princess*

      I have wrist pain that flares up every now and again (once or twice a year), so I don’t know how much this will help. I found that regular wrist braces don’t really help all that much. I use a sleeping brace. I picked it up at Target. When I have a flare up, I’ll sleep with it for a few nights and then it goes away.

    4. Ali G*

      An ergonomist (is that a word? Spell check doesn’t think so) once told me that you shouldn’t actually “rest” your wrists on anything – that actually causes pain. I was told you should sit up high enough that you elbows are at right angles and your hands hover over the key board with your wrists flat and in-line with your elbows. To do this I need a foot stool because I am short and office desks and chairs are made for normal height people.
      Also if you can – take breaks!
      Have you seen a doctor about the pain? You might need a wrist support if it’s bad enough.

    5. Curious Cat*

      My mother’s got rheumatoid arthritis in her wrists/hands and wears wrist braces a lot of the time to help provide support. I think you can pick some up relatively cheap from CVS/Walgreens

    6. Evie*

      What worked for me was going the opposite of most systems. I got an ergo consult who said you need an unbroken top line down from your shoulder through your elbow to your fingers. So your keyboard needs to be higher in front than in back. Gel rests heat up your wrists which makes inflammation worse so you need a hard plastic or ideally a wood rest. None of this helps if your torso is in the wrong place relative to your desk. If your body proportions are out of norm- long torso or long legs, you might need lots of adjustable pieces to get it all right. If you can learn to swap your mouse hand, that can help tremendously. The right long term solution might not feel right at first. It took me a week to get adjusted to my first set of adjustments but then it was much much better.

      1. TL -*

        Yup, I switched my mouse to my left hand and it helps a lot. (though I get tons of comments and lots of ‘helpful’ people will move it back to the right side.)
        I also keep my keyboard tilted, try to sit up straight, and have a brace that supports wrist and thumb that really helps (but my issues are in my thumb and elbow, so they’re a little different.)

    8. Quill*

      Pretty much every preventative / management strategy for carpal tunnel should be looked into here – stretches, a brace, looking into it with your doctor.

      If you find that the problem comes from constantly making tiny mouse movements, decrease your mouse sensitivity so you have to move more of your arm to click on things

    9. Not So NewReader*

      I use a track ball at home and I have a cordless mouse at work. Between the two of them my wrist pain is gone.
      I tried a gel rest with a regular mouse and that did almost nothing. And it was annoying.
      The track ball mouse took a moment to get used to, it was so worth the effort.

      If you are so inclined you can also check with a chiropractor to see if there is any underlying issue other than over-use.

      1. Bea*

        Can we internet high five for trackball mouses? I’ve had one since forever, I’ve been laughed at for it and I’m like “well I prefer you laughing to me hurting, so who’s the a$$ now?”

          1. TootsNYC*

            my tennis elbow thanks me every day.

            I also found that changing it up is good. (I switched to my left hand and a track pad for a while; that helped a lot. I can’t use a mouse or trackball w/ my left hand, but I got comfortable w/ the track pad)

    10. Rezia*

      Depending on how bad your wrists are hurting, you might have some repetitive strain injury going on. I messed up my wrists working on my thesis, and what helped me was going to a physical therapist for a couple of months, and then getting my desk set up adjusted to improve ergonomics.
      I was told that my wrists need to be in a straight line, no bends up or down, so make sure that they’re in a relaxed and straight position as you type/use a mouse. I personally have found that a split keyboard helps me maintain that position.
      Whenever I travel for work and do a lot of typing on a laptop, the wrist pain comes back, so I can see how much my work set up is helping me.

      Also, I sleep with my wrists curled up and my physical therapist gave me a brace to sleep with, which also has helped a lot.

    11. scratchedagain*

      I work eight hours a day on the computer and then proceed to spend another 4 to 6 hours gaming on pc as well, so wrist pain is an old ‘friend’.

      Have you tried a gaming mouse? They’re designed to be used by people who spend all their time on the computer so they’re pretty comfortable, and some even have weights you can adjust for further comfort. The one I use (a Logitech G502) has made a huge difference, to the point where I don’t have wrist pain at all any more.

    12. I'm A Little Teapot*

      I find if my chair height is off just a bit, it can really mess up my wrists. Change the height, and 2 days later the pain is gone. Ergonomics are real (I just don’t fit into what they think I should!)

      1. irene adler*

        My experience too! Had to ditch a chair that was just a couple of inches too low (and not adjustable).

    13. Trinity Beeper*

      If you choose to see a PT, you may want to ask about topical steroids. I developed really bad wrist pain midway through college, to the point where my wrist would start twitching involuntarily when I put strain on it. My PT used a process called iontophoresis, which uses an electrical current to get medicine into the body. While I still get wrist pain several years later, it’s nowhere near as bad or frequent as it used to be.

      I also found that applying Biofreeze (kind of like Icy Hot, but it never gets hot) gives immediate relief. It smells pretty strong, though.

      1. TootsNYC*

        I find that the smell of Biofreeze or the green Ben-Gay actually has a bit of a placebo effect! (ditto the pink of Pepto)

    15. Anna*

      Every time you are not typing, but sitting at the pc thinking or reading what you have written, turn your hands around and rest them on the back of the hand. It can help to not keep them in “attack mode” all the time

    16. EmilyG*

      I used to have this problem and it’s really hard to guess over the internet but I have one thing no one else has mentioned… a split keyboard. That way you’re not cocking your wrists at a funny angle to reach the keys on the keyboard. For years I’ve used a split keyboard with an inverse tilt, the Microsoft Natural Touch. I also have a keyboard tray that tilts it even further away from me, and a vertical mouse.

      Here’s a picture of the wrist position that causes pain for me: https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.shopify.com%2Fs%2Ffiles%2F1%2F0729%2F3389%2Ffiles%2Fulnar-deviation-455x341_large.jpg%3F16707325413583004600&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nomorepainergonomics.com.au%2Fblogs%2Fno-more-pain-ergonomics%2F17979044-how-to-pick-the-right-ergonomic-keyboard&docid=In7_GwwHEsTCpM&tbnid=dHDSGIDnCCsvpM%3A&vet=10ahUKEwjW3rHkzandAhXlzVkKHVhhB0MQMwg4KAIwAg..i&w=455&h=341&bih=861&biw=1464&q=split%20keyboard%20wrist%20position&ved=0ahUKEwjW3rHkzandAhXlzVkKHVhhB0MQMwg4KAIwAg&iact=mrc&uact=8

      2. LilySparrow*

        That was the angle that was chewing up my wrists, too. And when I did stretches and such for carpal tunnel, it made the pain worse because the nerve I was pinching was on the opposite side from the carpal nerve.

        The cheap drugstore braces helped me in the short term because I couldn’t twist my wrists to the side. A few other suggestions I’ve collected from different RSI, joint, and soft-tissue pain through the years:

        1) There’s an acute phase, where the pain is really bothering you and you’re highly motivated to do something about it, and then there’s the chronic phase, where you slack off the changes and go back to old habits. This is the danger zone. You have to keep up the “project” of fixing your habits for at least a couple of months, even if the pain stops in a week or 2.

        2) Don’t be stingy with the NSAIDs while you’re in the acute phase. Take the maximum recommended dose for 2-4 weeks. You need to keep the inflammation down while the injury is healing. Pushing through the pain only builds strength in muscles. Not in joints or nerves.

        3) When you find the right stretches, stretch in the morning & evening, and in breaks through the day. Ice before bed.

    17. RedBlueGreenYellow*

      I think this is one of those things where a physical therapist visit (and probably an ergonomic assessment) are really worthwhile. For me, it took a combination of wrist, arm, and shoulder exercises; a split keyboard; new mice (I actually have both a left-handed joystick mouse and a right-handed vertical mouse, and I switch back and forth to minimize wrist stress); and a new chair (no more armrests for me). I know that’s a lot, but if you’re in a lot of pain, especially if you’re losing grip strength in your hands, it can be worth it. It was certainly worth it to me.

    18. Ann O.*

      An odd one: first make sure it’s wrist pain and not referred pain from a neck nerve pinch. That is also really common (because most of us don’t have our monitors set up well), but people often don’t recognize where the pain is originating.

      1. Fish Microwaver*

        Yep, I have this, complicated by a wrist injury as well. I can’t offer any remedies beyond regular analgesia and rest.

    19. Dr. Anonymous*

      If you are in the US it may also aid sense to file a Wrokmans Comp claim, bacuse you my need physical therapy and your own insurance may not pay for treatment for a work-related injury. This is a crazy place.

  22. Susan*

    My boss is an awful micromanager.. I’m reading up more on this, and we can’t really quit right now b/c we have other reasons keeping us here, but I just want to share the latest episode of “my boss is awful”

    So my mgr & I are responsible for engaging our team. Normal right? We have weekly meetings to go over new things and reiterate key points. We send out emails all the time. We try to keep them brief but still some people seem to ignore those emails. (if anyone has ideas on how to engage a team and make sure they actually know what’s going on and aren’t always in the dark, I’m welcome to hear that!)

    So yall may cringe at this but he decided to send an email with bolded, underlined, large fonts and colored…in our defense, we needed to do SOMETHING to grab ppls attention since the old way wasn’t working. We’d send out a 3 line email and ppl would still be like “what? I never read that!”

    And it worked! People actually responded and were engaged.

    But then boss emailed us addressing him only saying “here’s some constructive criticism on your emails” and copy pastes a huge document with basic email principles. Basically, something that you’d give to someone who’s new to the working world…not a professional with 10+ years of experience, who manages a team of 50 people.

    My jaw dropped when I read this. Boss is a Director of Operations….there is absolutely no reason she should be wasting her time admonishing a professional on the fact that he decided to use a damn color in his email. For her to say “this is unprofessional” is extremely ironic b/c….don’t you have anything better ot do? She once actually emailed someone asking why they were away from their desks for so long and not clocked out for break. We’re salaried, not hourly. Had she said anything remotely like this to anyone else who works here, they’d quit in a heartbeat.

    Anyway I just wanted to share this here. Welcome to any feedback (just please no “why don’t you quit?” Or “why do you know she emailed this to people.”). Thanks!

    1. Teapot librarian*

      There could be other things going on with boss and manager. I’ve felt the need to give this type of feedback to one of my employees who is a professional with 30+ years of experience. (PowerPoint slide shows should not use a different color combination on every slide, for example. You’re representing our office giving a training for 50 people? I will tell you that your slideshow is crap. But I won’t use the word “crap.”)

      1. Susan*

        No I don’t think so, we work closely and he’d confide in me if there was something that would change my opinion about this. But there’s nothing else, trust me. Well we needed to engage people and this worked—trust me I don’t like the color thing but it worked.

        Me personally, I hate that we have to make sure people read their emails. I personally feel like you’re a professional—there’s absolutely no excuse for you to NOT read your work emails, esp when they come from a supervisor/leader. By all means ask for clarification or something but don’t outright ignore it (not pointing to specific examples just generally how I feel). This isn’t school. Asking about ppls bathroom breaks, picking apart every word they say, I feel like that’s micromanaging, but my boss wants us to do that. So.

    2. Meredith Brooks*

      I’ve found people are very opinionated about the appearances of professional communications. (Comic Sans anyone?)

      I understand the logic behind colors and underlines and bolds to grab people’s attention. But, I also understand the COO’s opinion that having to resort to superficial attention grabbers to get staff to read emails is a bit pandering. If they’re not reading emails, it is not your responsibility to make them more attractive. Email is email. They should be able to read, comprehend and retain a 3 line email without needing to resort to juvenile tactics. (That’s not a dig on you both, more so that you’ve had to employ tactics that would engage a child in order to engage professional adults).

      Unfortunately, it seems rather than focusing on ensuring staff read their actual emails your COO is focusing on the tactics you employed to engage them, which won’t really resolve the issue. So, it might behoove you both to sit down with the COO and explain why this tactic was implemented, the various other methods that have been employed in the past, and ask them for their advice as to how to remedy the situation. (Normally, I would say this wouldn’t warrant a sit down — but given the manual the COO wrote to admonish you, I think it would be wise to explain the situation and the difficulties, so they don’t think this wasn’t a thoughtful attempt.

      2. Susan*

        Oh I am too. I like email to be a certain way, I was a writing major so I understand importance of email (don’t take my posts here as proof of that lol). But I also wouldn’t pick on a strong performer with years of experience on his choice of color esp since it was a one off. We have mAangers who make constant typos and nothing about them.

        And you hit the nail on the head—We shouldn’t have to micromanage adults but that’s our leadership telling us to do this.

        Unfortunately Knowing her, she’d take any explanation, calm and professional, as “you’re wasting my time and being unprofessional”.

    3. Kathenus*

      Addressing just the engagement part. We have an intranet in our organization and at times important information is posted there. I didn’t want to set up where me or the managers had to forward every notification and message off of this to the team. So when I started I set the expectation for our team that everyone is expected to check the intranet at least once each workday. The same thing for checking emails, they are expected to check them at least once each workday. They are responsible for knowing the information from both of these sources within these basic time guidelines.

      If they don’t do it, I’ll remind them because I know people get busy and can fall out of the habit. After that it’s a performance issue and can be documented and handled just like any other job function. The good thing is that it treats them like adults and professionals, tells them how to stay up to date on information and sets clear expectations, and takes away the ‘but I didn’t know that’ excuse. They also know that if anything is time sensitive, I’ll get it to them more directly as needed. I wouldn’t say it’s perfect, but it works pretty well overall.

    4. Kathleen_A*

      What we do in my office is indicate in the subject line if action is required, e.g. “Response needed by 9/7:” followed by the subject of the email. This isn’t a new technique, but it’s pretty new around here. Anyway, it does seem to work quite well, and nobody has to decide whether red and green are good colors to use or should it be vermilion and blue?

    5. NW Mossy*

      For the engagement/paying attention to important news piece, stop relying on emails and team meetings as the sole methods you use. Both have a place in your communication strategy, but as you’ve discovered, it doesn’t work well for communicating important information that you need people to absorb and remember.

      Here’s what I’ve found works for me to get my team to retain information:

      * Multiple modes of communication – I’ll often touch the same topics in 1-on-1s and daily huddles as I do in team meetings and emails. When I do it, I’ll make the connection explicit by saying something like “We talked about this in a previous meeting, and here’s more info on it” or “I’ll follow this up with a email summarizing after.” Repeated exposure in slightly different ways really helps people retain the info.

      * Having “themes” and tying new information to those themes. My themes are taken straight from the strategic priorities for the business, and every time something’s changing or new or important, I’ll point out where it connects to a theme – that “hook” often helps people find the right place to file the info in their minds.

      * Look for ways to put important things in their eyeline at the time that it’s most relevant. An email about a project that won’t deliver its impact to my team for 6 months is not useful; the same email 6 days before it delivers is. Likewise, if there are certain facts about a customer that someone should know before they do any work, I put it into the default info that’s visible on every ticket, every time.

      Basically the idea is to make things people really need to know so ubiquitous that they can’t help but learn them. I resisted doing this for a long time because I was in this “well they should just read their emails!” camp, but I’ve learned over time that investing the time up front to communicate more than feels strictly necessary is more than paid back by the time savings of things operating more smoothly because people are better informed.

  23. Amber Rose*

    I gotta say, I’m not looking forward to next week’s open house. There will be a ton of people wandering around, I’m not allowed to park in the parking lot or eat any of the fancy food, and I’ll probably still have to get work done somehow, only without my music because guests.

    Also I had to send my picture for the presentation my boss is doing, and it was an awkward selfie I took with my phone at my desk that made me look dead eyed and like I have 16 chins. :|

    Gotta find my company shirt in whatever drawer I jammed it into…

    2. Chaordic One*

      It sounds like you won’t be able to get any work done. Maybe, if you’re lucky, you’ll find some of the people wandering around interesting to visit with so the day won’t be a total waste.

  24. Quill*

    Just got great feedback about my contract renewal – is it a good idea to list a contractor company’s contractor-handler as a future reference, or should I concentrate on the people who see me every day? (My actual boss may be retiring soon… so for a reference 2 years in the future I’m not certain future employers could get ahold of him.)

    1. Work Wardrobe*

      I’d use people who knew the kind of work I do, not the contractor handler.

      Don’t worry about the retiring reference. If you know he’s retiring, at that time, ask for his personal email to use when people ask for references.

  25. Ali G*

    I GOT A JOB OFFER THIS MORNING!!!!!!!!

    Almost a year to the day I left Toxic Old Job, I got a job offer with almost the same salary, better commute, better overall job and definitely a better Boss and Co-workers!!

    I actually have another interview with a different org this afternoon, but I am still going to go – if nothing else for my own piece of mind. They still have to call references, which New Boss was sure it wouldn’t be a big deal (and technically I’m not worried) – but you never know.

    Party starts at 3 pm Eastern – who’s with me?

    PS – thanks to anyone that ever answered my interview/job search questions – and especially to Alison for such an amazing and practical site. Seriously, I’ve learned more in the last 2 years of reading here than I did in 15 years of working professionally.

    1. Almost Violet Miller*

      Wonderful news! Congrats!
      Will be thinking of you when I put on a facial mask and open a bottle of wine after my business trip tonight.
      I think it’s great you’re still going to that other interview.

    4. Anonygrouse*

      Congratulations!! I’ve been in my post-Toxic Old Job position for a year and half, and the glow has not diminished a bit. Enjoy your celebration and your new workplace!

  26. We have HR finally - now what?*

    The company I work for just hired an HR manager. She is very enthusiastic and has a lot of ideas for improving our company culture (which is basically ‘you should be loyal to the company, stay in late and ask for nothing in return) and the morale (so low the turnover is extreme with someone leaving every week, and we are 70ppl).
    She wants to talk to everyone to see how we are doing and I don’t know how to handle this talk. I don’t have any experience with talking to HR and no clue what to expect.
    My worries more specifically are:
    -I’d call the environment very close to toxic. There is a manager who doesn’t respect people and her behavior has influenced a lot our workload (we can’t ask her or her team questions so I often have to help out instead etc.) and also the output. This manager is backed by her boss. While I want to mention that there are internal tensions I’m afraid to be more specific because there is too much diplomacy and said manager and her boss have bullied people out of the company. The manager’s manager is very high up in the hierarchy.
    -What are topics that you can bring up to the HR manager? Eg. my boss sucks as managing ppl (very problematic as he is the GM) but I want to clarify with him first that I need his guidance for certain tasks (I need to know the company’s priorities to be able to prioritize my tasks eg. and he is notoriously bad at anything that is not selling something)) – is it appropriate to say that communication in general is bad and we need more transparency? The thing is, I’m afraid we need a strategy (and not only those 17 slides my boss presented to his bosses in the HQ of the group) – obviously not something I should share with her.
    -How would you frame the following: I am sitting very close to the entrance of the office. The receptionist is often away from her desk because of her other duties. This means I (and my colleagues around me) have to open the door or deal with DHL/postmen/lunch deliveries/private deliveries of others. We need a system for managing this without us and also a door on our office (was removed over a year ago).
    -I should probably focus on things like the lack of regulation of overtime, business travel etc.
    I’m sure these sound like basic and rather stupid questions but I am so clueless and want to take advantage of having HR now, but in a manner that is beneficial to me and the company as well. I really enjoy most aspects of my job but still am looking at leaving in a year because it’s not a great place to work at.

    1. Shiara*

      I’d tread fairly lightly. Suddenly having an HR Manager isn’t magically going to make things like toxic atmosphere better, and she’s not actually going to be the difficult manager or difficult manager’s manager’s boss. If they’ve been protected from the effects of their behaviour so far, adding a new person to the company with a shiny new title isn’t likely to change that.

      Basically, your last two points are really the only things that are going to be in her direct domain, and the only ones I’d feel comfortable raising in a similar situation. At least until I saw how things played out a little more.

        1. Wishing You Well*

          I agree, too.
          Some feel HR is there to protect the company, not the employees.
          HRs don’t have the power to fix a toxic company. Wait and observe for awhile. Don’t ruin your chances for a reference if you need one.

    2. Snark*

      I think you should be honest with her, and very frank that “staying late and asking for nothing in return” is not what ails the company culture, and that morale sucks. But you need to give her specific, concrete reasons that is so, and keep it constructive and actionable.

      In particular: yes, it’s totally appropriate to say that communication is bad (though I think a few concrete, actionable examples need to go with that) and that more transparency is needed (with specific, actionable examples). Tell her about the issue with handling deliveries, but again: suggest a way forward, such as a specific reachback person for the admin, or a new requirement that people are responsible for greeting their own lunch deliveries.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Hi New HR Manager, thanks for taking time to chat with me.
      I believe our company could benefit from focusing on the following things:

      1) Basic respect to each other. We can do better than what we are doing.
      2) We need more information/instruction than what we have been getting for the projects/work we are doing.
      3) We need a system for visitors coming into the building. As it stands now all of us are doing reception work and this leads to confusion and many mix ups.

      1. halmsh*

        You should highlight anything that is breaking employment law first and foremost! Use Alison’s suggestion of using a light tone for that, and saying something “We do X around overtime, but my understanding is that the law says Y. Can you help clarify that?” or something to that effect. HR of course cares about culture and morale, but that’s hard to institute. What’s tantamount is HR ensuring that the company isn’t breaking the law.

        If you have trustworthy colleagues and time to do so, get together and chat beforehand about the things you most want addressed, so you can reassure each other, find concrete examples, and present a united front.

    4. ..Kat..*

      Just remember, nothing you say is confidential – even if they tell you it is. Lots of stories on this blog by people getting burned when they thought HR would keep their conversation confidential.

  27. MyLocalSpiritHalloweenStoreIsAlreadyOpen!*

    Okay, I know it’s early, but I’m already so excited for Halloween coming up next month! So – what are your Halloween work stories? People coming to meetings in ridiculous costumes or over-the-top decorations at desks or ghost stories from your office or anything else!

    (I love decorating and dressing up for Halloween at home, but if I do anything at work, I keep it very minimal, like wearing a cowgirl shirt and boots or something simple like that. I love hearing stories about people who weren’t quite as restrained, though!)

    1. KatieKate*

      I like to “stealth” dress up for Halloween, which usually leads to me dressing up as Bruce Banner (purple button down shirt, glasses instead of contacts) or Clark Kent (glasses, blazer, Daily Planet ID hanging out of my bag). I’m a woman with short hair so it’s fun to do some stealth cross dressing too! :) I need to come up with an idea for this year though…

    2. Youth*

      My workplace has a huge Halloween party every year. No joke–it’s bigger and longer than the Christmas/winter holiday party. We dress up, have a catered lunch, play games, and win really nice prizes (if you’re fortunate enough to have the best costume or win a game).

      I’m kind of meh about the games, but the food is always excellent, and I love dressing up because I’m secretly 12.

    3. KR*

      Instead of my company logo in my email signature, on Halloween I use a little black cat graphic. That’s all I do except try to dress gothish.

    4. DivineMissL*

      Halloween is my favorite day of the year. We are a government office, and there is a day care center two doors down from us. About 10 years ago, I got permission to invite the children (about 25 kids, ages infant – 4) over for a Halloween party/trick or treats here in the building. The kids go office-to-office in their adorable Halloween costumes, getting bags full of treats. Since we can’t spend taxpayer dollars on something like this, the employees each buy treats with their own money, decorate their office doors, and dress up in costumes; the kids then have a Halloween-themed snack before heading back to school. All the elected officials participate as well; we usually make the local paper; and this is one of the few employee events that gets 100% participation!

        1. DivineMissL*

          It is a great event every year; for some of the little ones, it’s the first time they have ever been trick or treating, and they look so amazed that people are just handing them treats! But it kind of freaks me out that some of these babies who came in 10 years ago are now in high school!

    5. Dorothy Zbornak*

      I have a black cat sweater with the outline of a cat face in white on it – I wore that last year and it was perfect for my office.

    6. Still early*

      Last year in my government office there was a decorating contest. My team and I somehow got permission to decorate the conference room. I was in charge of buying the decorations and we went all out. There were bloody handprint tablecloths on the table, spider webs around all the screens, spiders all over the walls and ceiling, fake eyes in some corners, ghosts hanging around, the door decorated as a mummy, spooky lights. Everyone, especially the commissioner LOVED it. I’m still shocked they let us do that, but we did it again for the holidays and are working on plans for this year

    8. Nana*

      Gave blood on Halloween one year…all the Red Cross staff were dressed as vampires or other blood-related ghouls.

    9. Chaordic One*

      One year the head of H.R. came dressed as an executioner. He wore this sleeveless vest thing and had very muscular arms.

  28. Ragazzoverde*

    Does anyone have tips for getting less easily distracted during the day? I find myself regularly reading articles on my phone or computer when I should be working, I then let loads of work pile up and feel overwhelmed. Then I tell myself I’ll finish it at home but I never do, my work is directly client facing so I feel quite anxious that I’m not really performing well and have previously been put on a PPA (which I did pass, but I suspect it may have been due to the fact that my employer likes me and was suffering a mass exodus at the time). I feel like I want to do better (I was always an overachiever at school and university, albeit not one that needed to work very hard) but I find it so easy to get stuck in this procrastination and panic cycle where I never feel on top of anything.

    Any advice would be much appreciated!

    1. alice*

      Have you tried the pomodoro (sp?) technique? That worked for me. You work for 25 minutes, take a break, and repeat.

      1. Ragazzoverde*

        I have tried it and it does seem to work for a couple of hours in the morning, but once I get back from lunch it’s like I just lose it completely. I guess I just need to be more strict on it but I find it hard to stick to

        1. TootsNYC*

          maybe use it for morning, and use something else for the afternoon.

          If something is hard to stick to, it’s smart to keep looking for something else.

    2. Natalie*

      Maybe try playing around with settings and/or apps to make your phone and computer less enticing for non-work tasks? Exactly which thing will work for you depends on the nature of your work, but some suggestions

      – browser extensions that block access to specific sites, or all sites that aren’t whitelisted, or kick you off the browser after a certain amount of time
      – turn your phone screen to grayscale
      – phone apps that lock you out or disable certain apps

    3. raktajino*

      I use the Chrome add-on Stay Focusd. It gives you like 60 min (adjustable) a day to be on distracting sites, and then it blocks you until your designated stop time. I find that it helps a lot with preventing rabbit holes.

      If your phone can also become a distraction, I recommend something like Forest, which blocks your phone for a set period. Unlike Focusd, you can bypass and, say, take a phone call.

    4. Kelly AF*

      I found a couple of good tools for focus — one is a Chrome extension called StayFocusd, and the other is an app called Forest. With StayFocusd, you can customize it a lot. For example, you can use it all the time, to restrict time on certain sites that are real time sucks (you set the sites). I used it in what it calls “Nuclear Mode” where I would block all sites except ones I had whitelisted for school work for an hour at a time. Forest blocks access to other apps on your phone while it’s engaged, building up points that can then be traded to actually plant trees, which my hippie soul loves.

      Key with both these tools is being realistic — you’re not going to work for four hours without a break, which is why Pomodoro is great. Build in break time.

      There’s also a subscription music site called “FocusAtWill” that may be scientific bunk, but I’ll throw it out there anyway, just in case.

      HOWEVER, I really stopped using these much…. when I got diagnosed with ADHD and started medication. Procrastination might seem like the problem itself, but it’s probably a symptom of a deeper problem. I’m certainly not going to try to guess over the internet, but consider that the issue may be mental health, or it may just be that your job is a poor fit for you. I’d really try to explore that, if I were you.

      Good luck!

      1. raktajino*

        Also, ADHD fistbump. I no longer use medication, just the strategies I’ve built up over the last 20 years since my diagnosis. Best part is, a lot of those strategies are about scaffolding your environment and approaches to work, so you don’t have to have ADHD to benefit. (I don’t have specific strategies right now because my Stayfocused time is about to expire, but anyone who’s interested should look on Additude magazine for articles aimed at adults in office or home settings.)

    5. Hello, I'd like to report my boss*

      I use the app RescueTime (link in name) which runs in the background on your desktop or Android phone (no iOS version yet) and watches what you do, then gives you nice statistics (eg you spent 10% of of your day on ‘AskAManager.org’, 15% on Outlook, etc). it’s FREE and can be installed without administrator access.

      I also use an iOS app called ‘Forest’. You set a time limit. If you close the app (eg, open the web browser) before the timer runs out, it ‘kills’ your little tree and you get a sad cartoon picture of a dead tree – if you complete the time limit, you get a nice picture of a tree for your forest.

      This might not work for every one, but I find it limited a LOT of my procrastination and reading junk online when I should have been working.

    6. rocklobsterbot*

      I like the youtube channel RelaxingWhiteNoise. it helps tune out other stuff going on and encourages a better flow state for me.

    7. The Ginger Ginger*

      So I am also struggling with this, and I’m going to ask you the question that I am just now starting to ask myself.

      Is work the only place this is happening? Or are you seeing the same type of trouble following through on tasks in other areas of your life – it’s just less obvious because you’re not up against work deadlines?

      I thought it was a work/laziness issue, and I assumed a new role would sort of refresh me and get me back on task. NOT THE CASE. The novelty quickly wore off, and I am almost worse than I was. But when I started looking at my personal life, this lack of focus, etc. is actually ALL OVER the place. I’m just now in the process talking to doctors about this and what it might mean. For me? Well, I’ve had ADD testing that came back negative (I have a lot of feelings about this that I won’t get into here but…..), but it did uncover some diagnosable depression and anxiety issues that I “knew” about but was largely ignoring. Those things can cause brain fog. I’m also in remission for a metabolic disorder that can have long term cognitive impact (that isn’t really well understood in the medical community). Some of this may be treatable for me – and I’m pursuing that. Some, maybe not. But it DOES allow me to be much kinder to myself, and hopefully will give me ways to request accommodations at work if that should become necessary. The process of excavating all this is long, annoying, and arduous (especially when I am having trouble following through on tasks) AND STILL ONGOING, but I couldn’t even start working on it until I really told myself “I AM NOT LAZY, THIS IS A PROBLEM” and believed it.

      I’m also actively seeking practical techniques to improve my performance and create better habits at work, not just letting the status quo stand.

      Now, I’m not saying we can’t get into habits of laziness. And maybe all you need is a change. Not everything has to be medical at the root, of course. But stop beating yourself up for a minute. Turn off all those shame spiral self attacks, and take a clear-eyed look at all aspects of your life, (alone or with a therapist, either way is a good place to start). If you’re at all concerned about what you’re seeing, maybe it’s time to talk to your doctor.

      3. Ragazzoverde*

        Thanks all of you for your advice! This is definitely food for thought, I would freely admit that the job is not something I’m ideally suited to, although it’s my best option for the time being and I think I could be reasonably good at it if I just dedicated the necessary time and attention to the work. I also do lack follow through in many aspects of my life. In a way I think being so good at school and uni with little real effort has kind of done me a disservice because I don’t know how to work at a high level sustainably.

        I’ll definitely take a lot of these tips on board and try the forest app! It’s great to know that there are other people struggling with the same issues I am (well I mean it’s not great that we’re all struggling but great that we can understand each other haha)

        1. The Ginger Ginger*

          Yes! I also was a high achiever in school (with seemingly minimal effort in retrospect) and for me that definitely contributes to my feelings of frustration and shame because I REMEMBER being a high achiever and I’m just no longer meeting that threshold. It’s so hard for sure *fist bump of solidarity* A lot of the time, with people who have known me a long time, I feel like I’m still partially riding on the coattails of that success. Like people think I’m smart, because I used to be smart, or something.

          Good luck all of us, I guess :/

        2. TootsNYC*

          I’m going to suggest a video that I love. Maybe you can use this technique just before you begin a task:

          It’s called “Bet you’ll clean your desk after watching this video”
          and it’s by PJ Eby, Mindhacking Instructor

        3. TL -*

          Uni and high school tend to also be very structured, which can mask a lot of underlying attention issues for the reasonably intelligent. There’s a lot of people who were doing just fine or even really well until hitting college or the work force and that safety net gets taken away.

          If it’s a persistent issue in your life, counseling might be good – they’ll know strategies that will be likely to work and can save you some of the hassle of “find, try, repeat”.

    8. mrs_helm*

      When this is happening with me, it is almost always because the work is no longer engaging. I can try to change it up a bit: do some elearning, write some code that makes some of the work do itself, cross-train with coworker, brainstorm/ask for new projects, etc. I find it also helpful to keep a list of small, back-burner work projects, because if I do them while I’m in a slump, at least what I am doing benefits my work.

    9. epi*

      There are a lot of different strategies out there, and I think what will work for you really depends on why you are unfocused. It could be lots of things– anxiety/perfectionism, feeling burned out at work, difficulty focusing in general such as with ADHD, etc.

      My trouble focusing is almost all about anxiety, so I find I really need to force myself to *start* tasks. It helps me to use a timer– if you Google “timer” one will come up right in your browser. I also schedule specific tasks in my calendar when I’m really having trouble. If you do it regularly, you will get pretty good at knowing how long a task should take and you may find it motivating to know that when you read something else instead, you are signing yourself up to engage with that task for even longer.

      I saw you say you have trouble getting back into doing this stuff in the afternoon, after a break. I highly recommend just making some calendar reminders for general work time that will pop up sometime after lunch. It’s OK to need a prompt to do this stuff! One thing I found when I started using timers and reminders was, there were only so many things I *wanted* to read rather than just aimlessly doing anything but the task I was avoiding. With time it started to get easier to get back to work without prompting, or to realize when I wasn’t even enjoying my time wasting activities so I might as well put them aside.

      1. The Ginger Ginger*

        Oh yes! Related to this afternoon slump! Are you in a role where you can hyper-schedule yourself? Like from 8-10 I do Y, from 1-2 everyday I do X task only. After lunch, it would preferably be something that is easy to start and complete quick tasks in so you get that burst of satisfaction/reward for getting something done (so maybe lots of small steps that you know well and can move through quickly), but doesn’t take up a ton of that brain effort that may be hard to gather after lunch.

        Maybe it’s just dealing with all your email after lunch. So 1 email burst first thing, then anything that comes in after that gets addressed right after lunch?

        Calendar reminders and scheduling works for me, at least…a lot of the time. Some days better than others. But it may be worth a go.

    10. ElspethGC*

      I’m another one of those ex-overachievers who suddenly hit a wall and wasn’t sure how to actually concentrate and work hard after a childhood/teenagerdom of not really needing to try.

      I’ve discovered that pomodoro and the like don’t really work for me, because it relies on willpower (which I lack!) and necessitates going back to work after a short break. I just can’t do that. A short break becomes a very long break with surprising speed. I’ve never had a good sense of time management/how much time has passed, which exacerbates the issue. I’ve found that I work better in much longer chunks and that I don’t really need the five minute break every half hour – or rather, that if I do take that break, it becomes a three hour break every half hour.

      On my phone, I have the app Forest – whitelist the necessary apps, set your timer, and it blocks all non-whitelisted apps. You always have the option to click out of the block, but it kills the little tree that it planted when you started the timer. It sounds twee, but I always get a cozy feeling of beaten procrastination when I have a tiny forest of trees to show for my concentration, and a withered tree of failure in the middle is surprisingly annoying.

      Equally, I use Chrome extensions that blacklist my big time-wasters for a set length of time. I don’t know if you’d want those on company computers, though.

    11. LilySparrow*

      GTD and rewards.
      I am also a schooltime overachiever who struggled in the working world and was adult-diagnosed with ADHD.

      What I like about the Getting Things Done approach (I don’t follow it religiously, but this part helps) is that you uncover the thing that’s blocking you by itemizing the sub-tasks within each task. So my task might be “book vendor for Event.” But I’m avoiding doing anything about it. So when I break it down, I realize that there are several discrete steps that need extra attention – like contacting Colleague for vendor recommendations, which requires that I find Colleague’s contact info that isn’t in my address book, and so forth. So instead of writing “book vendor” on my to-do list, I write “find Colleague’s number.” It seems much easier and less overwhelming, and I get a little dopamine hit from crossing it off.

      I also respond well to small, concrete, immediate rewards (instead of abstract, far-off rewards.) When I’m really struggling to stay on task, I’ll track my time in increments (usually 30 minutes). When I get 3 gold stars, I get a cup of the fancy tea. When I get 6, I can listen to my Pandora station until lunchtime. And then it resets after lunch.

    12. Sami*

      Since you mention that one of your rough times is after lunch, think about when and what you’re eating. Too much heavy foods or too many carbs can leave me tired and not feeling my best.

  29. Goya de la Mancha*

    Ordering a new boardroom set up for our office.

    From what I’ve found it looks like it will have to be from an online store. I’ve never ordered such large scale furniture online before does anyone have places they would recommend/warn against? Easy enough process/returns if needed?

    1. Not So NewReader*

      We bought furniture online a while ago. It came knocked down and required assembly. Since the pieces were wood and they were LARGE, it was nothing my boss and I were going to assemble on our own. We had to bring in several stronger people to work together on it.

      Now this was very large, heavy furniture. It cost just over 5k. I was shocked by the poor quality. It looks great from a distance, but it’s particle board and it has not held up with time that great.

      Even if you are buying lighter things like chairs you still have to assemble them. Cordless drills are a life saver as much of it involves a screwdriver. Again, you may want to consider who will be assembling them, if you have 8 chairs and each chair takes 20 minutes to assemble it might be worthwhile to find someone who would put it together for you.

      The large furniture we ordered came on pallets, they took it off the truck with a forklift. (The driver had his own forklift.) Since it would be a while to assemble this stuff, it could not stay outside in the weather. We had to have a spot to put the pallets of furniture that was a covered area. The forklift was used to move the pallets. If you do not have a garage type area where a vehicle can just drive in, then you will probably need a crew available the day the furniture comes to hand carry the boxes into a sheltered area.

      For my volunteer work I do, we bought a large table and some chairs. This was a totally different experience. Delivery was much easier because of the size and weight of the furniture. I think it was a crew of four people to put them all together. This set of furniture was not made of wood, but made of rather light weight material and a very modern design. Since the assembly was easier and the materials were substantially lighter I was able to participate in putting things together. It is time consuming.

      The one thing that I really liked about the set for the volunteer organization is that the table comes apart into small tables that can be used by one or two individuals. This is very handy if the room is a multipurpose room. You can put the tables together for a board meeting OR take them a part and have smaller tables that people can work on things alone or in pairs. (Now that I have seen this, I wonder how we coped without it.)

      I strongly recommend reading customer reviews before deciding where to order from.

      1. Goya de la Mancha*

        THANK YOU for such a detailed response – you brought some points I hadn’t even considered yet! Assembly itself won’t be a much of an issue, but storage until assembly is complete will be! We’re looking to spend some money on this so one of my biggest fears is like you said, it looks great from far away but it’s just cheap up close/over time.

    2. A Non E. Mouse*

      Depending on the size metro area you are in, call around – even places that have to order it sometimes have “Office Supply” warehouses with office furniture – even the fancy stuff! – you can touch and feel before buying.

      We even have a couple of places locally (medium-ish metro area) that sell really good quality used furniture.

      Also if you know of a place that has furniture you like, call them and ask where they got it.

  30. formerfrontdesk*

    Hey guys, I’m the former hotel employee who was seeking advice on reporting policies at my former workplace that had potentially discriminatory outcomes. I wanted to thank you all so much for the advice I was given.

    https://www.askamanager.org/2018/08/open-thread-august-17-18-2018.html#comment-2114627

    I eventually called the American Hotel and Lodging Association, and they suggested the consumer complaint specialists at my state’s Dept. of Justice.

    My state’s Department of Justice consumer complaints people told me that the consumers themselves would have to make a complaint for the DoJ to get involved. When I explained the specific circumstances (the policy was essentially invisible from the consumer’s perspective), she suggested my state’s Human Relations Commission. 

    Then, the Human Relations Commission suggested the EEOC. When I spoke with the EEOC, they suggested… the Human Relations Commission. I even tried the Better Business Bureau, and was told that the company didn’t handle discrimination claims, even when it was against customers.

    I admit, I’m at a loss. I’m really surprised that there’s no place where I can report my experiences with my former employer in an actionable way. I still haven’t ruled out the ACLU or the press, but I’ve never talked to a journalist before, and I’m afraid I’ll mess it up. If I find a job outside the hospitality industry, (still unemployed, here) I might even give my name to corporate so they can address my complaint.

    1. Bee's Knees*

      That stinks. I work in a newspaper office, and I’d say it depends on the size of the newspaper you’re calling the response you’ll get. You could call and ask to speak to the business reporter, and see what they say. They’ll let you know if they think they can get anywhere with it.

      1. formerfrontdesk*

        Most of the newspapers in my area are pretty small, so I’m not sure they have a business reporter. I’ll look into it though! I’m also looking into contacting specialized newspapers for my area’s African American and local tribal populations.

        1. Bee's Knees*

          They may not have a business reporter, but that’s going to get you closer to the person that you need to talk to. Also, it lets them know you actually might have a story, and aren’t just calling because someone done you wrong. For the specialized papers, you might want to go straight to the editor.

      1. formerfrontdesk*

        That’s kind of you to say. I think it’s my duty to bring up policies I feel are discriminatory to the appropriate authorities.

    3. Bea*

      Thank you for trying so hard. I know the end result is frustrating and FUBAR (for real, I can’t believe these policies are allowed with all our laws and watch dog groups to protect against discrimination) but you invested in trying to find anywhere to listen and that’s not what most do.

      Please continue to care and try when you notice injustice. But in this case, you’ll want to step away and distance yourself. Short of lobbying for protection to be formed, you’re exhausted your efforts!

    4. Binky*

      I think the ACLU actually might be the best place to go. The policy you described sounds a lot like discrimination on the basis of race in places of public accommodation, which is a civil rights violation. A civil rights organization like the ACLU, or maybe the NAACP, would be your best bet.

  31. grossed out anon*

    Several people in the office have been coughing non-stop all week. Today it is especially bad. Can I go home “not sick yet”?

    3. Annie Moose*

      Ahhh, we have a bunch of people complaining about sore throats today. I suspect it’s because school’s starting back up so all the parents are getting sick off their children. Fingers crossed it doesn’t pass to me…

      1. AvonLady Barksdale*

        I stayed home yesterday because I woke up stuffy and woozy. Felt much better this morning, but still kind of not great. So I’m holing up in my office. The entire office is getting this mess, and I agree that it’s all probably because the kids just went back to school. Blech.

    4. Gandalf the Nude*

      My friend has been getting a lot of dirty looks from one neighboring coworker, who is apparently very offended that Friend would come to work sick and has been spraying the air around the cubes with bathroom disinfectant several times a day. Friend doesn’t have access to vacation or sick days yet, though, so dab cough and hand sanitizer it is.

    5. LDP*

      If you can, go get some cough drops with zinc in them! I work in a shopping center, so there’s pretty much always someone sick in the office, and besides constantly washing my hands and trying not to touch anything in the mall, this has been the biggest game changer!

    6. Also grossed out*

      I just came here to post the same thing! Except people in this office cough ALL THE TIME! One woman has had eight colds since April and I feel like I’m going to snap. I have never caught this many colds and coughs in my life.

    7. Traffic_Spiral*

      this is one thing I miss about Japan – it’s acceptable to wear facemasks in public for health reasons.

  32. Bee's Knees*

    This week in a Small Town Newsroom

    If I’m going to type this up in my email, I need to make sure and remember to take my signiature out of it. That’d be fun.

    So earlier this week, I was out of things to do. Boss wasn’t here, so I decided to work on my photoshop skills. (Which I would have done if he was here or not, but I couldn’t ask about anything that needed done.) I was editing a photo of my brother and his fiance, putting a border on it, and cleaning it up a little. Fergus comes by, and asks if they’re siblings or a couple. Which was a little understandable, because they have similar coloring. They were not standing like siblings stand, but ok. I told him, and then he immediately makes it weird, and starts asking if my brother has some sort of weird sister thing. I was not having it, and told him not to make it weird, and to go away. I thought that was the end of it. It was not. The next day, he starts telling me that the deciding factor for men to choose a wife is what the man’s sister looks like, which is the not the stupidist thing I’ve ever heard, but close.

    There was a man that got arrested for being naked in public for the second time in the span of a month. The first time, they found him in the back room of a convinece store, bathing in bleach out of a mop bucket. Naked. (Or, as we say in the south, nekkid.) The second time, he was by the side of the road, and flagged down a passing motorist, who called the police. That time, he did have a bag covering… parts that need to be covered. Stay away from the drugs, people.

    Another man got arrested after he and his lady friend were caught with drugs in the car. He was pulled over for speeding, because he did not want his parents to see him out with a woman who was not his wife. It didn’t really go his way.

    I got a call about an obit from a lady out of state. It’s our company policy that we only take obits from funeral homes. I told her that, and she said that her son passed away a few months ago, and she wanted to get something longer in the paper. I gave her the line about policy, which people don’t generally expect and a lot don’t like, and she starts going on that don’t parents get a choice? I said yes, that the funeral home puts in whatever they’re told to by the family. Then she goes on (and on) about how her ex-husband didn’t give her a chance to do it, and it was short and awful, and can’t we do anything? (This was less in the tone of greiving mother, more wronged ex) I told her again that she could send it to a funeral home here, or we could take it from one where she is. She said she’d check with her funeral home, then hung up.

    My counterpart, Jane, had a really hard time yesterday. She was asked if she preferred Magnum, P.I., or whoever Tom Selleck plays in Blue Bloods, and she honestly got a little flushed. It didn’t help that she’d been to the dentist and had her mouth numbed, and so it was drooping. I thought she was having a stroke.

    1. Annie Moose*

      Fergus is so weird. I don’t know how you manage to not accidentally drop something heavy on his foot/accidentally ram your chair into him/accidentally trip and spill hot coffee down his shirt. The temptation has got to be strong!

        1. Bee's Knees*

          It did. I didn’t get a chance to go, because HOW DARE I schedule it when someone was working. Cause it was all my doing. Of course, that same person took several hours off that afternoon to watch football, but ok.

            1. Bee's Knees*

              They had one with buck teeth. It was one of the cutest animals I’ve seen in a while. I was stalking their facebook.

      4. Bee's Knees*

        Believe me, it is. He wouldn’t notice about the spill though. His desk is literally crusty. Desks shouldn’t be crusty. If IT comes, they drape it in paper, or just take the whole computer, but leave the nasty mouse, etc. He eats there, and the sound makes my skin crawl. We sit 20 ft apart.

    3. Rusty Shackelford*

      Remember what Lewis Grizzard said… Naked is when you don’t have clothes on. Nekkid is when you don’t have clothes on and you’re up to something.

    4. Bagpuss*

      I’m stuck on the wife comment. I mean, on a practical level, my brother has 3 sisters, and we all look totally different (and his lovely fiancee doesn’t look remotely like any of us, except in so far as we are all Caucasian women! )

      1. Bee's Knees*

        That’s about as much as I have in common with my future sister-in-law. Fergus just wanted to be a weirdo.

  33. Valor*

    I would like some advice/ opinions on whether I was too harsh or over the line on a subject. I supervise college students, and one of my responsibilities is helping them in their professional development for their life after graduation. One of my reports wants to do a very physical job after he graduates, but he also has a medical condition that may leave him paralyzed in the next year. In our goal-setting meeting, after we discussed his steps towards his goal, I asked him what his back-up plan is, if he does become paralyzed, and he was very shocked that I asked. He told me his plan is to not become paralyzed, but that’s not really something he can control. Was I wrong to ask? I feel like it would be irresponsible of me not to help him plan for the worst case scenario.

    1. Slartibartfast*

      It’s something he should consider, speaking as someone with fibromyalgia and neuropathy in my hands. My medical condition is not the only reason I’m switching fields for something significantly less physical than I have been doing, but it’s about 40% of it. However, it took me years to admit to myself that I can’t just power through and ignore my symptoms because I love the work. (Still do, it’s in my soul but my body can’t take it) So no, you aren’t out of line to bring it up-once. Whether or not he’s ready to consider the question is on him, and the more you bring it up the more he’ll likely shut down if he’s not ready to hear it.

      1. Sloan Kittering*

        I think asking people about their backup plans is great. You were right to do that. The issue was in making it about his disease. That to me is probably over the line. But I *always* ask students to think through their Plan Bs, second best choices etc. I think young people are too much taught to follow their dream to the bitter end even when it’s clearly not working out and making them happy – for whatever reason.

        1. Valor*

          This is a very good point. A lot of my students are accountancy majors, and I usually don’t think about asking them about back-ups because they can almost always get a job right away. A lot of them have job offers as juniors! I just tend to ask them what steps they are taking to ensure they can pass their licensing exams. Back-up plans are something I should just add into my routine with all my seniors.

    2. Jessie the First (or second)*

      Yes, you were wrong.

      He knows about his medical condition. You would not have been alerting him to anything new.

      I mean, obviously, he knows much more than you do about his own health, so it is strange of you to assume he hasn’t thought about it. That and, you know, you may be wrong about his specific risk anyway. You know his condition because he told you or it was in the news or who knows why – you haven’t been with him in medical appointments.

      I know you were trying to help, but when dealing with someone with a chronic health issue, don’t make assumptions about their prognosis and start giving advice based on those assumptions.

      2. Lissa*

        Well sure but plenty of students don’t think about things others may see as obvious, and require professional development help from someone like OP. It’s not strange, IMO, to assume a university student has not thought about something relevant, and that doesn’t change just because it involves a medical condition. I don’t think it’s strange to assume someone hasn’t thought about *any*thing that might seem extremely obvious from the outside, from my experience!

      3. Traffic_Spiral*

        But she wasn’t giving advice, just asking about whether he had made plans. I think in regular situations it wouldn’t be appropriate, but here where it’s a student (AKA inexperienced in some matters) and your literal job is to advise them on this, it’s worth bringing up once. Not harping on it, but definitely worth bringing up as a relevant factor that could influence the type of advice they need.

    3. Jessie the First (or second)*

      Slartibartfast – I’m curious about your response. I think a friend/parent/family member/trusted inner circle person could CERTAINLY say something. I’m just not at ALL convinced that person should be a college career services person (or whatever your title is, Valor – I’m not sure!). Someone who does not have the actual details of a person’s dx and prognosis.

      1. Slartibartfast*

        The fact that he is a student is the reason why I think it’s ok. There’s a big difference between learning and actually doing, and it can be valuable to call attention to something that’s more personal in nature than would be acceptable in the workplace But again, just once. The ball is in the student’s course from here on out re: whether or not they want to talk about it.

    4. Dino*

      Not over the line and his reaction speaks more to his mindset than your approach. I’ve seen a situation where someone wasn’t able to do a job because of a disability (like, actually couldn’t do it, not “it’ll be hard” or “it’ll require accommodations”) and no one had that talk with them before they applied to the training program and was rejected. It’s a kindness to flag these issues, but you can’t control the other person’s response.

    5. LCL*

      Asking was the right thing to do, as it sounds like it is part of your professional responsibilities. As long as you dropped it when he wanted it dropped, you did what was right.

    6. Nita*

      I’m sure there is a reason he’s choosing this job. He’s probably very much aware he may spend the rest of his life sitting, and may want to do as much really physical stuff as possible, while possible. You really shouldn’t be telling him to live his life as if he’s already paralyzed. He’ll figure it out if the worst happens, although, hopefully, it won’t – it sounds like there is some uncertainty there.

      1. Valor*

        In my own defense, we did discuss his action steps to getting his dream job before I brought up his backup plans. He has a solid plan for getting there if nothing changes about this well-being.

    7. Persimmons*

      IMO there’s nothing wrong with asking a student what their backup plan is, whether the need for it involves possible disability or not. Having all your eggs in one basket is almost always the wrong way to go. Your question was not inappropriate just because the reason for the backup plan is personally devastating, rather than just bad luck or economic factors.

    8. Shay the Fae*

      Disabled person here, I think asking him that was really important. I’m about to graduate college this spring and I have 3 different plans depending on my health and how getting a service dog is going.

    9. WellRed*

      Hmm, in that case, shouldn’t everyone have a backup plan? No need to single out the person with the medical condition.

      1. CTT*

        Yeah, that’s my thought as well. OP, if this is something you ask everyone, then maybe it would have been better to frame it that everyone should have a backup plan and that he needs one in case he can’t find a job in that field for any reason.

    10. Owlberta*

      I agree with Slartibartfast and LCL: You were right to bring it up — once. If your job is to help them plan for professional development, then asking mentees to consider both a plan and a back-up plan is reasonable — medical concerns or not. If he chooses not to engage in back-up planning, that’s his choice, and you’ve done your duty in asking the question.

      This is certainly an over-generalization with many exceptions, but I have found that millennials can be quite unrealistic in their career/goal planning. It’s better to ask questions now than get completely rejected AFTER putting in a ton of work and money.

      1. Valor*

        I don’t think that’s being fair to my report, his goal is very attainable and practical if his health maintains at his current level, and he has a realistic and well-thought-out plan to achieve it.

      2. Lissa*

        I think if you replace millennials with university students you’re quite right, there are a lot of people early in their professional development who have unrealistic ideas/expectations for all kinds of reasons – I sure did! And yes some people are extremely realistic but others have just been fed “follow your dreams” and not much else, which is in no way their fault but is why people in OP’s role exist IMO…

        1. Sloan Kittering*

          I do think it’s best to try and cultivate a flexible mindset early. When people feel like they’re letting themselves down if they don’t achieve their dream of being a professor, for example … even when they’ve realized they hate academia or it’s not going to reward them the way they need – the system has failed them, IMO. They’ve become too rigid in their definition of success and its only hurting them.

          1. Lissa*

            Yes, I know a number of people whose dream was always to do one specific thing, often a thing that has a fairly high rate of not being successful in the way they want (for instance, it’s realistic to be a writer but not so much to expect to completely support yourself with writing novels) and are absolutely devastated because they were basically told that “wanting it” means of course they will succeed, and they want it SO much.

      3. Double A*

        I know a lot of people use “millenials” to mean “20-somethings,” but the oldest of us millenials are pushing 40. A lot of generational generalizations are actually generalizations about a certain age cohort. Probably when Boomers were in their 20s, they had similar issues.

        There are definitely unique experiences that come with being part of a generational cohort (for millenials it mostly relates to when we experiences certain types of technology), but learning professional norms is something that every generation deals with when they’re of a specific age, so it’s not really a generational thing.

        Just a pet peeve of mine.

    11. Not So NewReader*

      My only qualification here is I am a former student, so this is FWIW.
      I think you did the exact right thing. I thank you for asking that question, because most people do not.

      I hope I can encourage you to continue to think this way and use this approach. Perhaps you would find it a bit easier to preface the question with something like this:

      “I feel I have an ethical responsibility to people who mention a potential problem that may occur in the future. We don’t have to discuss it if you don’t want to. However, my advice to you is to develop Plan B now for if Potential Problem becomes reality.”

      You can add things to this:
      I might say, “Life has taught me that if I see a problem on the horizon, I have an opportunity to prepare/do damage control if that problem should actually unfold.” [Drawing back on yourself like this can sometimes make the message less startling.]

      OR:”I am available if you later decide you would like to talk about this with me.” [This holds the door open for them to recover from their shock and start the conversation up again later.]

      Here is something to keep in mind, they gave you this information. You did not go fishing for it or beat it out of them. They volunteered it. This means the topic is on the table for discussion, to me. They felt comfortable enough to mention it even in passing, so that would make me go back in on it. And yes, some people will just shut that right down. Others will shut it down but reopen the conversation later. And still others will stay in the conversation when you open the topic. There is no way to predict which type of person you have sitting in front of you, so I’d encourage you to keep asking and help those who allow you to help them.

    12. Anonomoose*

      I think it’s part of disability acceptance to realize that what you plan and your body are too different things. In my line of work as a voc rehab counselor, I’d raise it. And let it go.

      Heck, I’ve raised it with my 14 year old niece who wants to go the Air Force Academy and is on track with the grades, volunteer work and athletics (And found out I was the only family member who raised it). It’s only when we don’t have back up plans we run into trouble

    13. Mimmy*

      I think it’s awesome that you’re helping these students work through their professional development plans. However, I think you have to be really careful when you bring disability into the conversation. No, it should not be ignored completely, but you also don’t want it to come across like you’re discouraging the student’s Plan A just because he may become paralyzed in the near future. You don’t say what kind of “physical” work your student hopes to pursue and what level of paralysis he may experience, but depending on those factors, there may be some modifications that can be made. I will concede that it may not be doable, so encouraging him to think about a Plan B is still very important, even if he is able to do Plan A for some period of time.

  34. Nervous Accountant*

    The guy sitting next to me has left th drawer open all morning now. It’s driving me crazy that it’s open. Not my drawer so can’t touch it. Wonder how long he’ll leave it this way. I’m just more amused that it’s drivimg me so nuts.

    1. Icontroltherobots*

      Can you close the drawer? “Oh Steve, you left this open, shuts drawer, there ya go, big smile.”

    2. Nanc*

      Wasn’t there a Home Improvement episode where the husband made the wife a super closet and one of the tech bits was a voice alarm “The drawer is ajar! The drawer is ajar!”?

      That doesn’t really help your situation but if you can find an audio of it it might amuse you!

      1. David*

        Yeah! Season 2 episode 13, around 20 minutes in. There’s a clip on YouTube.

        Now I’m watching the episode instead of working…

    3. Anna Held*

      Are you a witch? According to Terry Pratchett, the best way to drive a witch crazy is to leave her alone in a room with a picture that’s askew. Witches like things to be in their place. So you may be a witch.

      If you know any good hexes, we’ve got lots of potential recipients on this here site.

    4. Queen of Cans and Jars*

      Those kinds of things drive me nuts, too! Usually it’s my husband, who for some reason is not able to close his dresser drawers, but at least I can fix that. I have a hard time restraining myself from “fixing” things on people’s desks, but I blame that on the fact that I used to be a teacher.

    5. WellRed*

      I have a drawer open right now at work! At home, it drives me crazy when people leave the toaster oven door open.

    6. Damn it, Hardison!*

      Could you “accidentally” bump in to, and then say you shut it because it was a hazard. Not that I’ve done it or anything, just a hypothetical.

    8. Dorothy Zbornak*

      My mom used to hate that when I was still living at home – I would leave dresser drawers just a little bit open (for no real reason, I’d just shove and walk away) and it would drive her crazy!

    9. Bea*

      “Drawer’s open, dude. Dude, your drawer is open tho.”

      I’d close it myself but you know your office and say you can’t, so I would go with the “DUDE. DRAWER.”

      If it’s sticking out into his traffic zone, it’s a safety issue. Yes, I’ve been forced to be the “safety” officer in every job I’ve had.

      1. Nervous Accountant*

        Well can’t was my own reason. But I went ahead and did it. I didn’t realize it’s drive me nuts until it actually happened today lol

        1. Bea*

          Lol fair enough. I’m glad you did!

          I know some places so have rules because of strict chain of custody and imagined it being a private drawer with to secret details. Like if it’s next to a cash box or privileged filings but then he really better not be leaving it hanging open!

  35. TotesMaGoats*

    Just wanted to share that my class has been going well and I’ve used some of the best questions from here to spur discussion. Had some interesting opinions on this and good conversation. Hopefully making them think.

  36. Slartibartfast*

    Nervously awaiting a call “sometime today” with the official offer I was unofficially promised earlier this week…Gah, I feel like I want to puke! New job, new industry and I I have been out of work since January for school/training to make this happen. I have three more interviews if this does fall through, but still…
    Not a question, but good vibes would be appreciated :)

    2. Slartibartfast*

      Update: I have my offer!!!!

      Best interview questions from AAM that helped me get this: “what does a typical day here look like” and “how do you measure success in this role”. The latter got me an “oh that’s a good question!” from my interviewer :)

  37. Persimmons*

    Does your company (or should your company, in your opinion) weigh external and internal experience differently when considering new hire salary?

    Oversimplified example: Say I have 10 years of experience in teapots, 5 years at my current company and 5 years at a previous company. A new hire is coming in with 10 years of previous experience in teapots. Should that new hire make what I make now, since 10 years in teapots = 10 years in teapots?

    1. Icontroltherobots*

      This is way more about internal policies than anything else. External hires typically come on at whatever the market rate is within your band. So if you’re higher in your band than is really market for your skill set – you make more. If you really should have gotten a (big) pay bump at some point – you’re being underpaid.

        1. Icontroltherobots*

          My company expects unquestioning loyalty but will not give real raises to mark-to-market. External hires IMHO get paid more.

    2. Birch*

      IMO, yes, if the level and training required for the job is the same. If you both are certified Teapot Specialists, then isn’t it the same as if you were to now leave to another company? You wouldn’t take a pay cut, would you? Now if newbie doesn’t have your certification or comes from a company that makes second-rate teapots compared to your company (if you can measure that objectively somehow), then maybe not. But in any case, you can only measure your experience at your current company if you’re talking about internal vs. external. So you don’t get 10 years of credit if newbie doesn’t–you only get the 5 years at your company. I’d be interested to hear what this is like in other industries.

    3. mrs_helm*

      Just throwing this in the mix: 10 yrs of experience at one company isn’t really the same as 10 over a few different companies. One company may do more of X, less of Y, and not really do Z or outsource it or whatever. So it is possible that the different mix of experience adds value to that candidate. Also, size of companies can matter just I’m a how-things-are-done sense.

      That said, I don’t think this should be hiring/salary policy. These are more case-by-case, judgement call things.

    4. Bea*

      No. You shouldn’t be making your salary based on only years experience. It’s a mix of experience externally and internally.

      So say you make 50k after 10yrs. A person coming in with 10 years shouldn’t start at 50k, that defeats the purpose of retention based salaries.

      Like raises, you get a COLA annually-ish. You should also get extra based on performance.

      So you’ve been there 5 years. John is hitting 1 year. He’s still learning but is catching on. You both get a 2% COLA, he gets another 1% for being pretty good but with a curve. You’re getting 5% for meeting and exceeding your higher goals.

      If you’re making top band salary at 10 years, they better not bring in newbies at the top, where is everyone gonna go?

      Base is 40k. His 10 experience is worth extra so coming in at 45 makes sense. Still 5k below yours. Kind of thing.

      I come in at the top of every range now but the top is never the amount the person before me ended at.

    5. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

      I suppose it depends on how much variation there is in actual job duties between companies. In my field I’d expect all of us to be making the same, because there isn’t much difference between the work you do at company A versus company B, except maybe some of the paper work is formatted differently.

  38. Environmental Compliance*

    Got to kick out a crappy contractor today after getting approval to replace them. Mwahahahahahaha!

    2. lost academic*

      What a relief! I hate competing against incumbents with some of my clients who are clearly screwing up left and right but they can’t be replaced easily…. lost a contract opp today for that reason.

      1. Environmental Compliance*

        I was getting a little worried. This contractor was not going to help us stay in compliance with some FDA regulations (the opposite, actually) and I kept getting kickback of but……do we neeeeeed to switch?

        Yes, yes we do, unless you’d rather pay the FDA to fine us.

  39. hot sauce christmas cake*

    I’m looking at entering a PhD program next fall and am working on applications, but have hit a slight roadblock. I don’t know how it is for other fields, but in my field PhD programs are very very small: the largest I’ve found admits only five students at a time, with most others admitting two or three. Obviously it’s highly competitive (even at what I’d consider “second tier” universities), which means I intend to apply to several different schools to increase my chances of being admitted.

    The problem is, all of these schools require three letters of recommendation from previous professors. I’ve always been a good student, but there are really only three professors I’ve had who could write more than “turned her assignments in on time, never caused trouble” – and, considering the competitive nature of the application process, I’d like to use those three for all my applications. But while I wouldn’t mind asking for a single letter of recommendation from them, asking for four or five seems very rude.

    Does anyone have any advice for how to go about this? Would it be presumptuous to write and ask for a letter of recommendation and suggest they save what they write so they can submit it to other schools?

    1. Sophie before she was cool*

      This is totally normal and professors are used to it! Generally they’ll write one letter and tweak one or two sentences that speak to how you’d be a good fit for the particular strengths of each program you’re applying to.

      There’s no need to feel like an imposition — if they agree to write “a letter of recommendation”, they understand that they’re agreeing to write for each school you apply to.

      1. AvonLady Barksdale*

        What Sophie said. This is so normal! I didn’t even realize how normal it was until my partner started his job search process (he’s almost at the end of his PhD). One of his professors plans to write customized recommendation letters for every application, and… that’s at least 40 letters. I think that’s insane, but that’s what the prof himself suggested and offered.

        When I applied for my master’s, I think I got letters from two professors. They wrote seven letters each for me. I didn’t read them, so I’m not sure if they used one letter for all apps or if they customized the content. Ask for their help, and if they agree, ask them what kind of info they need from you. They’ll take it from there. Good luck!

    2. Portia*

      Your professors are very used to this, and that is exactly what they will do – they will each write one letter that does not refer to a specific school/program so that it can be used for multiple applications. There’s even a useful service called Interfolio that they may be familiar with where they can upload letters. You won’t have access to the letter itself, so they remain confidential, but you can upload the letters to your applications without having to bother the professors for a new copy each time. Good luck with your applications!

      1. hot sauce christmas cake*

        I’m so glad I wrote in…this is really reassuring! Thanks for the advice and the luck!

    3. DJ*

      I applied to four graduate programs and had the same people do my letters. Four or five shouldn’t be an issue.

    4. Murphy*

      This is totally normal. They will definitely be able to use the letter for multiple schools instead of writing a new one every time. Multiple schools wone take up that much more of their time.

    5. LJ*

      I think it is very common to have professors submit the same letter to multiple schools. When I was applying for graduate school, I essentially put together a packet (this was only 7 years ago, but many letters still needed to be mailed) with the different schools, deadlines, and pre-stamped, addressed envelopes.

      Most are likely online, but putting together a single email with deadlines and links would be helpful. Let them know upfront you are applying to grad school and would they be willing to write letters in support of your 4-5 applications (or however many). I’ve done this for my students as well, and it’s very common.

    6. Anna Held*

      My old school had a service for this. The prof would leave the letter with them, and they’d send them out. Worth asking about.

    7. Boba Feta*

      Came here to chime what the others have already said: if you have maintained contact with your profs and they are aware that you were headed toward grad school, it’s very likely they were already preparing for the ask. If you have not maintained consistent contact or this was a relatively new decision on your part (as in: this request would be news to them), just write each of them a friendly email with an update on your most recent adventures/ activities, inform them of your intentions and name a few programs to which you’d be applying, and offer to send them your latest CV. I usually offered to send the CV in a follow up to the initial ask, rather than in the first one, so they are prepared to receive the attachment (less likely to get caught in a spam filter or something).

      Good luck!

    8. Owlberta*

      I used to do this for interns. Not a problem at all. I would basically write one letter and then change the header and the first sentence to match the institution. I would rather write 8 recs for 1 person than 3 recs for 2 people. :) I also always sent a copy of my letter to the intern.

      I’m sure you would write a nice thank-you note after, but you may want to add some small gift as well (candle, cookies, $5 coffee card) to acknowledge they are doing so many. Especially since academic institutions are more likely to also require surveys on top of letters.

    9. AcademiaNut*

      Totally normal!

      What I’d do is give your professors a list of the programs you’re applying for, with a brief description of the programs and, if relevant, what subject area or professor you’re applying for. That way they can do a generic reference letter if they want, or they can modify it slightly to focus on the particular program you’re applying to. My husband was writing letters for a student who was applying for varied programs and would slightly modify the letter depending on the program.

    10. SleepyHollowGirl*

      Professors are very used to sending the same letter (or slightly modified letter) to multiple places.

      I applied to 20+ places after getting my PhD. None of my letter writers balked.

  40. Free Meerkats*

    Other activities in meetings.

    We currently have someone who knits during meetings, and in the not too distant past and have had other knitters, a lace maker, and an embroiderer.

    I’m embarking on a huge chain mail project for my next costume and will be knitting mail for the next (mumble mumble) months. It’s quiet (I’m going to use anodized aluminum, so very little clinking) and once I’m in the groove, requires no more attention than knitting yarn.

    Thoughts from the commentariat?

    1. Red Reader*

      Super distracting, even with “minimal” clinking. (I knit with wood or bamboo, no clinking.) But it sounds like it’s more acceptable in your office than in most, which is both really weird and really cool to me. (If you’re talking conference calls and not in person meetings, have at.)

    2. The Other Dawn*

      It would drive me nuts to see people doing things like that in meetings. But I’m also someone who can’t concentrate when there’s background noise near my desk, like voice or music, or people doing things other than “meeting” things when they’re in a meeting; I get distracted very easily.

    3. Lumen*

      I once brought some knitting to a class I was in. Half the sessions were all the students but one or two sitting around observing and giving feedback, not doing much, so I didn’t think it was a problem. I did my best to be quiet about it, and I was actually able to better pay attention.

      When my teacher took me aside to tell me not to do that anymore, she said it wasn’t about noise, or even my attention, it was about perception. To the other people in class, including people I was giving feedback to, it certainly looked like I a) wasn’t paying attention and b) didn’t respect them very much. This was not only going to harm my relationships with them, but it meant that when my turn was up, I might not get very good feedback – because my classmates didn’t think I care. It was a helpful early lesson in why ‘optics’ matter.

      I don’t think it’s appropriate to do craftwork in a meeting full stop, but I’d say that goes double for something a little more ‘unusual’, like chainmail. Plus, as other commentors have mentioned, even minimal clinking is going to be distracting.

      1. Nita*

        I used to knit in lecture in college. It did help me pay attention, and I didn’t think anyone really noticed. Only, at the end the professor said something about how he’s surprised I aced the class, because he was always seeing me knit. So, apparently it’s not as unnoticeable as I thought, and to someone who has no idea how little thought knitting requires, it must look like I’m not paying attention.

        1. Lissa*

          Yeah I think doing it a big lecture hall isn’t so bad, but is still noticeable, but I understand why Lumen’s prof took them aside too because it seems like it’d be worse in a case where it involves giving feedback to other students like that.

          I know a lot of people here always talk about how it helps them focus better when this comes up, even though the perception is the exact opposite. Would be nice to try to change that perception but it’s a balancing act for sure. Doesn’t help that the one person I know in real life who said stuff like this helped her focus better was…not correct about that, so I imagine there are others out there who are ruining it for people!

      2. Slartibartfast*

        I remember a classmate in college knitting as an accommodation for ADHD. She said the repetitive motion helped her focus She was a good student, and it became just part of the background after about 2 days. Not sure I would even notice someone knitting now, seen it pretty often in continuing-ed lectures over the years. Chainmail is an unusual hobby though, and I could ser it being distracting because of the “odd” factor.

    4. Nita*

      I can’t really imagine any of that going on in meetings, but if you’ve had people do it in the past and it was received well, I don’t really see the chain mail thing as being different. At least in the initial stages… I don’t know how knitting mail works, but if at the end of the project you’re bringing in a giant sheet of chain mail and it’s starting to take up the chairs next to you, that might be a problem.

    5. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I’m gonna say no largely because I have a friend who does chain mail stuff and I know how easily it can get knocked over and make a HUGE mess. I feel like that is not as much of a risk with yarn.

    8. Temperance*

      I think that any clinking would be distracting, to be totally honest. I think knitting is distracting/disrespectful, too, but if it’s okay in your office, this might be okay?

    9. Crylo Ren*

      Personally – knitting, lacework, or anything other than fidgeting with something unobtrusive under the table would be very distracting to me, especially if there was noise (even if that noise was quiet). I’d for sure lose my focus if I saw the movement of the knitting needles or other stuff in my peripheral vision, and I’d bet there would be others in the meeting that would feel the same even if they were good at hiding it.
      YMMV though, it sounds like your workplace is a lot more accepting than any I’ve worked in.

    10. Work Wardrobe*

      I don’t think it’s appropriate, respectful or optically a good idea to bring a hobby to a work meeting.

    11. LCL*

      It wouldn’t fly here, because the company spent much money on institutional culture change and one of the big changes was forbidding any activity not directly related to the subject during meetings. I’m not willing to debate whether that is a good or a bad thing, it’s a policy that we are expected to follow.

      At a place where meetings allowed you to engage in other pastimes, it still may be forbidden. Making chainmail isn’t as unobtrusive as knitting. There is the novelty factor, and the fascination of watching someone work with tools. So start making it at your lunch breaks and before work, so the novelty wears off. Then try it at meetings. If I was there, I might ask you for two pair of pliers and join in, I have done chainmail before.

    12. Book Badger*

      If knitting/embroidery/other handicrafts are allowed at your workplace, then chain mail might be, too. Though I’d maybe ask beforehand to make sure it doesn’t bother anyone, especially since knitting is more common than chain mail is (and there’s been all sorts of studies on how knitting improves focus or whatever, while I doubt there have been similar for chain mail).

    13. Wishing You Well*

      Unless your company is in the craft industry, don’t. The optics are not good, especially if you’re female. You’re demonstrating to everyone present that you can’t be bothered to pay full attention to your job while on the clock. Will the next company you work for be pleased to hear your reference say you split your time and attention with hobbies while at work?
      Hey, I’m a hobby fiend, too. But only at home.

    14. NoTurnover*

      I used to attend big library conferences where maybe one or two people out of a room of 1-200 would be knitting. Librarians, of course, tend female and older with a pretty casual sense of what’s professional.

      People still talked shi*t about the “knitters.” Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who just think working on crafts during anything work-related is unprofessional and means you’re not taking things seriously.

  41. KatieKate*

    How do I become better at networking? I’m not someone who socializes a lot outside of work (big parties overwhelm me and I only have a few close friends) so at networking events I usually find myself awkwardly standing in a corner or following around someone I already know. How have other socially awkward folks dealt with growing their professional network?

    2. Dino*

      I’m also socially awkward and hate networking. What works for me is to wear an outfit that makes me feel like a badass professional, pep-talks to myself about being my most friendly and open self, and mental reminders that no one notices my awkwardness unless I point it out. Good luck out there!

      1. Kelly AF*

        Yes to this. Find something (an outfit, a piece of jewelry, a makeup look, a color, a special pair of underwear, a song, whatever) that makes you feel confident and amazing, and use that!

    3. irene adler*

      Suggestion- get a job.
      By that I mean get a task to do during the networking event. Ideally a task where folks will seek you out and/ or want to chat with you. Any task will do: handing out programs, supervising the buffet line, refilling snack trays, assisting with food prep, etc.

      I volunteered to be the secretary for my local chapter of a professional organization. At executive meetings, I take notes. Hence, I have to interact with others ‘working’ at the exec meeting. We have a lot of discussions about other members – what they are up to, new jobs, etc. So when I said I didn’t know a certain person, I was promptly introduced at next chapter meeting.

      My ‘job’ is also to welcome attending members at our monthly chapter meetings. So I talk to most everyone. Find out about them- job or industry, interest in the organization, networking needs, etc. Course, they are also interested in talking with me – I tell them where the food is, give them any handouts for the meeting, etc.

      Now that I know some folks, I can introduce people to each other. Ideally, if I know someone is looking to hire for a certain industry or position, I keep this in mind as I chat with other members. Maybe introduce someone who would fit the bill.

      Other ‘jobs’ with our organization are program director. He’s always on the lookout for someone to be keynote speaker at our monthly meeting. So he’s constantly chatting with folks.
      Our treasurer has to collect funds and keep the sign-in sheet so members get credit for attending. She chats with each attendee. She also makes sure everyone has a ticket for the prize drawing we hold at the end of the evening. So she too is someone members want to chat with.

      If we were a larger organization, we’d have more tasks for folks to do. Just remember: each task = a reason to chat with someone.

      (NOTE: all this started slowly over time. I’m pretty much a wallflower. But now that I know a bunch of members, it’s easier to converse with folks.)

      1. Dorothy Zbornak*

        This is really good advice! I hate going to work events where I’m just… there to attend. If I have Something To Do, like staffing someone or anything else, I feel much more comfortable about interacting with others.

    4. Alex*

      I feel your pain. I recently read the book Networking for Nerds by Alaina Levine. It’s geared towards STEM people who stereotypically have social challenges, shall we say. I found some of the advice to be helpful as an introvert. Not all networking has to be mingling at a big event. There are lots of other ways to connect with people in your field or a field you are trying to break into.

    5. OtterB*

      I very much like the advice to get yourself a job related to the event.

      A tactic that works for me is to pick someone else who is awkwardly standing around, introduce myself briefly (“Hi, I’m OtterB, I work for Llama Groomers Inc. in the Wool Research Department.”) and see where it goes from there. Sometimes I find I’m talking to someone I have nothing much in common with, but that’s okay – at least I’m talking to someone.

      1. EddieSherbert*

        I’m also one who approaches the other people that appear to be standing by themselves. That’s never worked against me – though occasionally it’s very awkward! But usually it’s totally fine after the initial “hellos”.

    6. A Non E. Mouse*

      I am totally the same way.

      Here’s what I do:

      1) Force myself to go to networking events. I’m 95% close to bailing every time, but I don’t. To make sure I feel enough pressure to go, I arrange babysitting – basically I’d have to “cancel plans” to…well, cancel plans! Which is enough to get me over the hump.

      2) Wear something I feel good in. Sometimes this means I buy myself a new outfit. That’s OK.

      3) “Fake it til I make it”. I basically *act* like someone who is outgoing and friendly, and introduce myself to people. This is easier if you just come out and admit “I’m new to this thing and am super awkward, my name is A Non, what’s yours?” and just literally go from there.

      4) Take care of myself before and after. I’m a ball of anxiety about an event two weeks from now, as it’s a in a direction I’m very interested in pivoting my career, so I’m being kind to myself about being nervous, and I’ve made sure I have nothing else super-taxing scheduled the day before OR the day after.

      5) Sometimes, especially if it’s an event that’s free and offers light refreshments, I take a friend. Then we both get to meet new people, but have a built-in safe zone to fall back on while there.

    7. Quinoa*

      I have two thoughts about this as I used to have to do a significant amount of networking for my job, though they really boil down to the same thing: make it about the other person.

      1. Look for someone who is feeling awkward and alone and introduce yourself to them. Make it your job to make them feel comfortable. Ask them about themselves, why they’re there, what they do, anything that’s appropriate to the occasion. And then excuse yourself and go find someone else. Eventually what happens is that you are able to start introducing people to each other at an event, which makes it much less awkward for you.

      2. As I hinted at in the previous paragraph, my focus at networking events became to introduce people to each other. When someone was telling me what they did, and it rang a bell in my head about something someone else had told me earlier, I took them with me to meet the other person.

      If you make it about serving the other person, you won’t feel nearly as awkward as if you make it about what you need. Plus, people will be more likely to remember you, as you were warm and welcoming and didn’t seem to want anything from them.

      Then of course, follow up afterward with emails reminding people of who you are and make sure to schedule a one-on-one with anyone with whom you want to maintain a professional connection.

      1. Quinoa*

        I should add that even though I began networking feeling very shy and awkward, by the time I no longer had that job, I knew almost everyone in my industry in a not very small city.

    8. Catherine*

      I’ve always been similar, hated ‘networking’ and felt it was so phoney. However, I realised that I have actually built a network nonetheless, by being friendly and helpful and having good professional friendships that built over time. Eg, a colleague who joined my company a few months after me, I helped him with some of the new start stuff that’s painful – getting access to systems etc. We talk fairly regularly, he mentioned a job he’d heard about at his old company, that he felt I would be a good fit for – so he put me in touch. When I was at the interview, I was being walked out and bumped into someone in the hallway that I worked with previously – I was on a project with him for a few weeks about 4 years ago. He pinged me on LinkedIn later that day to say it was nice to see me and that he’d put in a good word for me. I got the job.

      Whenever I’ve forced myself to attend an ‘Official Networking Event’, I’ve got nothing out of it, it has felt forced and insincere. To my mind, people knowing you and seeing what you do is the best way. I asked to participate in the New Hire training program at a previous job, I got to meet all of the new people and they all knew who I was – that worked really well.

    9. Scubacat*

      I force myself to go to annual general meetings and Christmas parties. In return for my professional adulting, I reward myself with icecream afterwards.

      It helps to think of questions to ask people around me. They don’t necessarily have to be work related.
      Questions such as….
      1) Do you have any vacations planned this season?
      2) What do you think of maple bacon doughnuts? Glorious dessert or travesty against humanity?
      3) What’s been the best part about your week?

      If you pretend to be a normal human interested in other humans, the professional networking happens by accident.

    10. Triple Anon*

      Honestly, I would avoid events that are for networking unless it’s a really relaxed and friendly group, and instead seek out professional growth type stuff (conferences, interesting speaker events, etc). I’ve done a lot of both. The latter tend to attract people who are more successful, easier to talk to, and in a better position to help you find a job. Because the event has a topic, there is stuff to talk about.

      It can be hard to find stuff like that that’s free. Conferences can be really expensive. So maybe seek out your professional community online, do some digging and see if you can find anything. Also, sometimes you can get into a conference or other event for free if you volunteer. That’s worth asking about, and it’s a great way to meet people.

  42. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

    Annoying smelly cow worker who likes to push food on everyone and eat a ton of shared snacks for the office is being transferred to another office in Omaha!

    She really needs the job, but at the same time I am glad she’s moving. And, sorry, Nebraskans. Hide your snacks!

    Also, generally: if anyone has ideas on how to communicate well with non-native English speakers, fire away. My family is hosting a teenager from Spain.

    1. Sophie before she was cool*

      For non-native speakers, resist the urge to talk down to them because they speak slower or might have trouble understanding. Behave normally!

      Be prepared to explain idioms, even idioms that seem pretty literal to you as a native English speaker. Why do we say “on the bus” and not “in the bus”? Who knows! But they might ask you questions like that that have never occurred to you. Give feedback on second-language mistakes tactfully. Let stuff go if it doesn’t prevent the person from being understood (e.g., they say “informations” for multiple pieces of information), unless they specifically ask for feedback. But do mention stuff that could be taken the wrong way or cause significant misunderstandings (e.g., they don’t realize that “turn on” can have a sexual connatation).

      1. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

        He misused the words “bother/molest” and it was hard to keep a straight face and explain. Got there eventually though. Apparently “molestar” = “bother”.

        1. Natalie*

          It’s actually the same in English – “bother” is the original sense of the word, as both the English and Spanish uses come from the same Latin root. The “sexual assault” usage doesn’t come in until the 20th century, so you’ll see the “bother/annoy” usage in older English texts as well.

          1. Natalie*

            To clarify, the above is just trivia. Given the typical connotations in American English I think it was wise to explain that.

      2. Annie Moose*

        In addition to idioms, watch out for slang and dialectal stuff that might not be something an ESL speaker would have learned. Of course ESL speakers will generally learn slang as well, but it’s an area where they’re more likely to have unexpected gaps. And if it’s dialectal, a word or phrase that’s pretty much only used in one part of the US, then it’s even more likely that they haven’t encountered it before.

        1. Annie Moose*

          OH and swear words! In a second language, it’s really hard to get the right context and strength for swear words and understand when to employ them. (for one example, a French friend of mine had no clue how to properly use “bitch” in English and I had to explain to him that you just can’t use it as a general-purpose term for women!)

          1. Emi.*

            Oh man, I remember explaining to a German professor how it’s bad to be shit, but it’s good to be THE shit.

      3. Persimmons*

        Sooo agreed on idioms, especially if you use technical or specialized language. “Having a loose screw” and “having a screw loose” are not the same thing. Don’t call your machinery crazy.

      4. TCO*

        My Danish student loooooved “play it by ear” and thought it was the greatest idiom. (And it actually has a logical origin!)

        1. Kuododi*

          For most Spanish dialects ” I changed my mind”, carries the connotation of a brain transplant! If one wishes to communicate that concept a phrase such as “I changed my plans” would be more appropriate. ;)

      5. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

        I occasionally edit academic texts for people who speak English as a second language and there are lots of potential pitfalls like this. A translation might be technically correct but the connotations make it sound wrong, sometimes very wrong.

        I had one that used the term “miscegenation” throughout, which was technically the right word but I got the author to use “mixed race” instead.

    2. TCO*

      I’ve hosted two exchange students in the past two years, though both had good-to-excellent English skills. Google Translate or another similar app is your friend. We’d use translator apps to get across certain words if we were struggling and it helped a lot on both sides. (Like the time I had to teach my student the word “poop,” haha.) Speak slowly and clearly (though not more loudly, which is an easy misstep to make) and try to reduce use of idioms and jargon. If you’re watching TV together, closed captioning, whether in English or in their native language, can help a lot. Other than that, use hand gestures, photos, props, and a good sense of humor. It will go just fine!

      1. TCO*

        Oh, and as someone mentioned above, be thoughtful about when you offer corrections. They may or may not care about getting things perfect–one of my students loved to learn new vocabulary words but just didn’t really care that much about perfecting her written grammar and declined our offers to proofread her schoolwork, for instance.

        1. TCO*

          Our cabin’s compost toilet requires different actions depending on what, uh, activity you’re using it for. (If you pee, you just do what you’d do with any toilet but after pooping you sprinkle some peat into the toilet chamber.) She didn’t know the word, so I typed it into her phone’s dictionary app so she could see the equivalent in her native language. When she brought a friend (a classmate from her home country) to our cabin the next time, I told her she had to give the directions.

    3. Slartibartfast*

      I gotta ask : was cow worker an intentional pun? :) Also, for your non native speaker: American English is full of of slang that’s not taught in school. There is a comedian (I think his name is Islo?) who has a bit about how “ass” is the hardest word to learn that illustrates this beautifully.

    4. Book Badger*

      Half my family is from Austria, so sometimes our relatives (close or distant) will stay with us while traveling in America. Little-realized potential issue: sometimes the differences can be cultural. For example, all of my cousins are very straightforward and don’t fake liking something just to be polite – something my American mom and my Americanized dad find incredibly rude. Or something that might be funny to them is dreadfully offensive here. Since your family is hosting a teenager, there’s a certain amount of pushback you can do, in the same way you might correct grammar – casually and without judgement.

    5. TootsNYC*

      We hosted a student from Germany whose English was pretty good, but the thing he loved most of all was that when he wondered what a word meant, or there was trouble translating, my mother would have him look up the English word in an English-language dictionary, just as she would have had us to.

    6. Phoenix Programmer*

      I hope you did not mean cow worker and this is not the same coworker on a scooter you made gross comments about their bathroom use before. You are better than this! Obese discrimination is not OK.

    7. irene adler*

      I can’t get past the “annoying smelly” part. Brings back memories of a temp we had years ago. She wore cologne that smelled like burnt hair. And she put everyone’s teeth on edge for various reasons.

    8. TL -*

      Oy, I’m in NZ living with some young folks and something you might run in to is if they listen to/consume a lot of American media, a lot of the words/phrases are very decontextualized. So they might not really get, say, the difference between Kanye West using a racial slur in his music and them using a racial slur in anger (especially if the racial slur isn’t directed at someone who is black.)
      I’ve met a couple people here who think slurs are more along the lines of really bad curse words – nasty but they don’t get the hate-filled aspect. (I’ve met a couple of Americans who deny the hate-filled aspect but never anyone who doesn’t understand at some level that they are words that can really hurt.)
      That being said, it usually just takes a conversation or two about how much particular words are not okay/what they might be missing, and people won’t use it around me anymore.

  43. DataGirl*

    Has anyone ever used their work provided employee counseling program? Are those things actually confidential and are they any good?

    1. Goya de la Mancha*

      I used mine once, I felt comfortable speaking in there confidentiality wise but I’m not sure it did much good (but that could just be the “fit” of myself and the counselor) – which is why I didn’t go back. Ours is run through a third party though, so I think that adds a little to the feels more confidential part. I’m not sure if they usually are or not.

    2. OH GOD BEES*

      Yes! I have a friend who worked for a large 3rd party EAP (employee assistance program) provider and her insight into how that service provider worked REALLY helped me take the leap towards giving it a try.

      1) You can call your company’s provider and ask them questions about how it works and what information is shared with your company, without providing your name. My friend’s company (the service provider) apparently is generally (but not always) required by the employer to report some usage statistics – usually, just how many people used the service each year and how often they used it. I think larger companies can get some breakdown of what specific services were provided, but the service provider was not willing to offer any data that would allow a company to identify an employee and their usage – it was considered medical information, in many circumstances. Companies with few employees or low uptake might get very limited data because of what could be inferred in the small sample size.

      2) While some service providers have dedicated counsellors on staff, most are staffed by independent contractors who usually have their own private therapy practices. In many locations, these therapists will be part of regulated bodies or have specific credentials, and what you discuss in there is covered by professional standards and rules re: patient/client confidentiality. Check the rules for your state/location, and expect a good therapist to discuss this with you before beginning your first session!

      3) If you have a preference (eg. gender, certification, or approach), it’s okay to ask! The service provider might be limited in their available counsellors, but for counselling to be effective, fit is a big part of it. Many service providers are also happy to help you change counsellors if the first doesn’t meet your needs.

      4) While most services are limited to a specific number of sessions, this is sometimes a limit imposed by issue vs. being an overall limit. This means that if you need more support on different issues, you can sometimes reconnect and access more support.

      From personal experience, I’ve found this service wonderfully helpful. I’ve attended both in-person sessions and had therapy through live chat. I have had a couple “meh” experiences, but in each case, I was able to talk to the service provider and get switched to another counsellor. Sometimes, it’s just not a fit, and that’s okay! (Although I would say that if it’s your first time accessing these services, it may be worth sticking it out a little bit – sometimes, therapy is just uncomfortable to start.)

      While you generally shouldn’t expect these services to take the place of a comprehensive, long-term and in-depth therapeutic treatment, it can be a great way to learn techniques and develop tools to help navigate even the bigger, messier parts of your life and mental health. I found that I got the most out of my sessions when I was able to treat them more as opportunities to learn and develop skills, versus a more free-flowing and unstructured model of therapy, but everyone is different!

    3. fposte*

      I’ve used mine several times. Years ago it was meh, but it became really good; it has its own counselors on staff, they’ve been good, and you can get in fairly fast.

    4. Aurélia*

      Yes, I’m not sure how I would have made it through my no-good-very-bad-year (2017) without my counselor’s help. I lucked out and the EAP office through the government agency I work for was even in my building annex.
      It was confidential, my counselor covered that in our intro session. It took me a bit to warm up to my counselor (I didn’t get to pick, I wager the office had a sort of rotation for new patients/employees) but she was a great resource for work-related benefits I didn’t know about and working through an abundance of grief, discrimination at work, and a crappy relationship.
      What’s your hesitation?

    6. Bend & Snap*

      I use ours now for ongoing mental health care. It’s totally confidential and very helpful. I picked my doctor and my EAP basically acts like insurance.

    7. Ender*

      I have had lots of counselling. I used my husband’s EAP once and it was the worst counsellor I ever had. I would never use EAP again.

    8. Chaordic One*

      My sister’s employer had a generous EAP that extended to anyone in her household. My unemployed brother was living with her temporarily and had become quite discouraged and depressed with his job search. He moved in with her from out-of-state to look for work in what he hoped would be a better job market. The EAP referred him to a counselor, a licensed clinical social worker (LCSW) and paid for six sessions. They clicked and the counseling helped him quite a bit. He seemed to have gotten his mojo back.

  44. DJ*

    Considering going to an employee sponsored job fair (as opposed to a University sponsored one) early next week. The company looks like a good one and they are hiring multiple positions in my field and in my geographical area.

    How useful have others found these kinds of career job? If so, would you suggest bringing a cover letter? Applying beforehand doesn’t seem possible, because there are no job descriptions/openings on their site listed.

    1. Tara S.*

      A job fair usually means you will have a chance to talk to someone. Bring a resume relatively tailored to the type of work the company does, but no need for a cover letter. You get to be your first impression instead. Good luck!

    2. Chaordic One*

      They’ll probably want you to fill out an application. If you choose to fill it out after the event, when you send it in to them you could include a cover letter then and say something like “It was nice to meet with you,” and maybe “I hope you’ll consider me for any open positions in teapot design.”

  45. Legal Rugby*

    I’m getting a new boss! I’m getting a new boss! I’m the only attorney in my office, and currently serving as the Interim Director (normally an assoc. director), and they finally hired an attorney to be my Executive Director. Any suggestions on how to handle the power transfer? She’s got a great backgorund in the law, but has never worked in my industry before, and doesn’t know the politics of our particular employer.

    1. TootsNYC*

      It’s my policy to avoid briefing someone on the internal company politics. Maybe rough-framework things as they arise, to explain something, but only when it arises naturally and VERY brief (“This department struggles with deadlines sometimes”).

      I think people should find these things out themselves, and I believe that personalities can influence how these things play out, etc. And I don’t trust that my own perceptions will be accurate for others.

  46. Sally Sparrow*

    Boss and CW insist I need to help CW and other-cw with llama selecting without clear guidance on from the powers (Boss and CW) about what that entails and what those expectations are. CW made prior comments that it would be busy/grunt work, despite Boss saying that’s not what she envisions. Vacations and other stuff get in the way of truly implementing some of this even if we wanted to. Should I bring this up again to my knee-jerk reaction boss?

    1. Not So NewReader*

      If your boss has a habit of thinking out loud and then Nothing happens, I would say no, just let it go.
      Otherwise, I would wait for it to be mentioned again and have several specific questions prepared to ask in that moment.

  47. Lindsay Gee*

    What’s the norm for job searching when you’re on contract? Background: I’ve been on 6 month contract stretches that keep getting renewed. I really like where I work and what I’m doing but the commute is definitely impacting day to day life and it would be nice to not be on contract, get benefits, sick days, vacation time etc. My question is what’s common courtesy here? If I’m in for a 6 month contract and I get a job offer 4 months in and split…am I burning a bridge by leaving them in the lurch? For MORE context, I’m in research. So I could be running a research project or be in the middle of analysis that would be difficult, but not impossible to get someone else to jump in on. Additionally, we are a smaller research department with limited funds, so we don’t even really have the manpower for anyone to just jump in on another project.
    Advice?

    1. Anon From Here*

      Just because the contract keeps getting renewed doesn’t mean it’s not a temporary gig. Your employer is expecting you to maybe not be available at the end of the term. Keep job searching all the time, if that’s what you want to do.

      As for process: I’m in a 6-month gig right now, myself, and I’m looking to not come back when it’s up. I have a tickler in my calendar to have a chat with my supervisor 4 weeks before my expected end date. This will give them a good amount of time to decide whether they want to extend me a permanent offer (which I’m not 100% opposed to, but it will take some compensation on their part), or to figure out how to move my work to another desk.

    2. Boba Feta*

      Replying/ following because I’m in a similar situation. I’m glad that all my bosses are supportive, with an attitude of “We will hate to lose you, but we understand the reality that the contract folks often leave for permanent gigs.”

      I haven’t come to this point yet, but my plan is to try and negotiate a start time at any new position very carefully to fall between the contract periods, and hope for the best.

    3. Ender*

      Are you in an “at will” state? Does your contract allow them to let you go any time they like for any reason? If so you don’t owe them anything.

  48. HRGoneAwry*

    I’m starting a personal pet project. Basically, I want to gather the experiences of a specific group of workers and create an online anthology. I’m at a loss at how to do this because I don’t know how to approach people to see if they are willing to talk about their experiences and let me use them. Has anyone done this?

    1. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I haven’t done this as a personal project, but I’ve done qualitative research professionally and reached out to my networks for help. I posted on LinkedIn and Facebook and made the posts shareable, giving specifics of the project and asking for connections to people. If the group of workers you’re reaching is of a particular demo as well (as in, elderly people, or members of a certain church) you can reach out to certain organizations and ask if they can spread the word or post a flyer. Just be transparent about what you’re using their interviews for. Start with that. Can you offer any compensation, even a $10 Starbucks card? That might go a long way towards getting responses, but often, people love to talk about themselves, especially if it will be published in some way.

    2. Rey*

      Each connection that you make, ask if they know anyone else who would be interested in participating. I would also reach out to any industry-specific media outlets (email newsletters, podcasts, etc.) asking for some time to talk about your project and invite people to participate. When you’re recruiting people, make sure that you’re up front about what you will do with their information and how long of a time commitment you are looking for (i.e., one, two-hour interview, weekly hour-long interviews, etc.) And be aware of social norms in this industry and consider how you can meet them in a neutral way/setting. For example, depending on the topic matter, would they prefer meeting in a public setting (coffee shop, public mall) or a private setting (their home)? And are there gender/race/ethnicity norms that you should be aware of?

  49. K8*

    I have 2 interviews next week, both for mid-level engineering jobs. Both are scheduled for 2 hours! And that’s it. 2 hours and they will make a decision. One gave me a phone screen first, the other one didn’t even do that. I have a fairly in demand skill set so I guess they aren’t too worried about me being able to do that job but I’m worried about joining a company with only talking to them for 2 hours. Any tips on what to ask or look out for?

    1. DiscoTechie*

      That’s been consistent with my experience for that category of job interviews. A few have called back for another 2 hour session. (Background: Civil Engineer with 12 years of experience.) Good luck!

    2. CAA*

      Two hours is not necessarily a problem, but it is a red flag if you only meet one person in that time. I wouldn’t take a job without having talked to at least three people there, and I wouldn’t hire anyone without getting input from four or five other people. If they interview you in pairs or groups, it doesn’t necessarily need to take many hours to figure out whether you can do what you say on your resume or not. One thing about short interviews is that sometimes questions come up as you mull things over after you’ve left. If anyone makes you an offer and you feel like you have new questions, it’s fine to ask for a call with the hiring manager so you can discuss the work a little more before giving an answer.

  50. Just Me*

    Well, I got the news this week that I will not be offered a job with the company that’s buying us. I’m actually not upset, since I didn’t want to work for that company (I know a lot of people who did and there’s a reason they left) and didn’t want the commute. Also, I was afraid of ending up in a job I hate. I have about five months before my job ends, they offered a “stay bonus,” which is pretty large, plus a small severance (I haven’t yet hit the four year mark). I’m happy all my team members got an offer. I pretty much figured they would since their positions are easily matched at the new company. I’m a manager so I’m not surprised I didn’t get an offer–they already have five of my position and don’t need another one.

    This is for the best and I’m fine with it. But…I SO dread having to do a job search. I’ve determined the kind of work environment I need to be happy–some chaos and new challenges, diversity in my responsibilities, and the flexibility to get to appointments and such when I need to. I’m just so worried I won’t find something I like. I’m also worried about finding a comparable salary. My current company pays very competitively and lots of others in the same industry…don’t. Plus the types of positions I’d want aren’t listed very often, so I’m going to work with my HR department to see if they know of anything that’s open at other companies. We actually have a great HR department, so I’m pretty sure I’ll get a good amount of help there. They’ve already told me to reach out to them when I’m ready to start looking.

    1. Just Me*

      And I forgot to add my question.

      Anyone have tips for this kind of situation? Keeping up my motivation, job search tips like timing and such, anything you can think of–I’d love to hear it.

      1. Sloan Kittering*

        If you can afford it, it’s really nice to get a clean break and NOT jump straight in. It seems scandalous to take a vacation when you know you’re going to be short on money, but I honestly just could not move forward until I took a month (!!!) to get myself situated. That time off was such a luxury I was actually grateful for leaving the position and was able to interview with much more enthusiasm – before I’m sure I’d seemed like a nervous wreck. I only say that because you said there was a pretty good parachute, it might be the right investment.

        1. Just Me*

          I totally hear that and it would be wonderful. I’m so afraid of getting stuck in a job I hate–it happened once and it was the worst 10 months of my life. With severance, I could technically take two months off, but it all depends how the job search goes. I’m not even sure when to start since I wouldn’t start until I’m done here–don’t want to lose the “stay” bonus! The stay bonus is about 26% of my annual salary, which is nice. Although we do have some plans for that, which would be to pay off a few bills that have a large monthly payment…just in case!

    2. TootsNYC*

      the kind of work environment I need to be happy–some chaos and new challenges,

      Me too, on the “some chaos”

  51. Quiltrrrr*

    In March, I left a job I had for 12 years because I had been miserable at it for the past 3 years. I moved to a job with a former boss that I really liked working for, and we both had high expectations for the position and the worth of it.

    I’m updating my resume. My boss has had a chronic illness for the past year, and I have really struggled with the culture around me…I’m the only one who does what I do, and without a manager around for most of it, I’m really struggling. Not with the work…I have the experience to perform whatever needs to be done, but with not having the authority to do anything in his absences, with the interpersonal relationships around me…it’s not been a good fit.

    I feel like I’ve failed in some way; 6 months just seems like a really short time to be so discouraged, but I had the feeling that this was a bad fit since the 3rd week, and time has not proven that wrong.

    1. Anna Held*

      Just repeat to yourself “sunken cost fallacy”. It’s not a mistake, or a personal flaw, or an abandonment. You did what was best at the time, and it didn’t work out, so you’re making a course correction. There’s no virtue in being unnecessarily miserable. You have solid, work-related issues to explain why you’re leaving if you’re feeling disloyal. Leave your work in good shape and give a decent notice, and you’ve ended any obligation there.

    2. MissDisplaced*

      Well, sometimes the culture of the place really isn’t a good fit. It’s nothing about your work ethic.
      If your boss has a chronic illness, it sounds like it complicates matters even further and the department is somewhat rudderless perhaps?

      I don’t know if sticking it out 1 year is possible? Otherwise, yes begin your job search. It sounds like you have reason to get a pass on this one.

      1. Sloan Kittering*

        Even if you begin a job search around six months – perhaps first for only a knock-it-out-of-the-park job description, then slowly getting more serious – it’s likely that you won’t end up actually quitting until around a year, in my experience. Interviews and hiring seem to drag on a long time, if you’re just now updating your resume it might not be so quick. I dunno, this made me feel better when it happened to me.

    3. Bea*

      No!!!

      I was in my long term job for over 10 yrs. It took me a couple tries to find a place where I fit and was happy again. I even had a couple jobs I quit without notice because they were that crappy.

      This isn’t your fault. It’s the company that allows someone with your experience and track record spin wheels waiting for “authorisation” when the authority is not available due to health issues. You didn’t fail anywhere and you need to move on for your overall happiness. You deserve better. They can eat a butt, I fart in their general direction in your defense. Please feel better soon, it’s a cruddy place to be and I don’t wish that feeling on anyone.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      Is there a way you can get the clearance to make these authorizations? Can the boss deputize someone? Can the boss okay you for making these decisions?

      Does the boss realize that you are not happy, even if he thinks you are minorly unhappy?

      If you had the authority would that improve the relationships some what?

      1. Quiltrrrr*

        Sort of…I’m also really bored. I can’t move forward without more information, and it just isn’t forthcoming. So…I sit here.

        I finally made a list of all the things I’m waiting on. It was substantial, and some of these are things that we’re going to have to discuss. I could make decisions, and I absolutely have the experience to, but I’m not about to get my hand slapped, since these have far-reaching consequences.

  52. CU*

    I recently started a job where I take inbound phone calls. Not constantly, but 5-6 per day. Just enough to interrupt my non-phone work. I have ADHD, so I can both hyper-focus (so I am startled when a call interrupts my concentration) and easily distracted (it is hard to switch my focus back after a call).

    Does anyone have any good tips for how to switch back and forth as seamlessly as possible?

    1. HRGoneAwry*

      I put my phone on silent when I need to concentrate. I also include in my VM that if the call is urgent to please direct your query to email.

      If turning off your ringer is not possible, have you tried getting up for a minute to do a lap or something and then sitting back down to re-focus? I find that helps me as well.

      1. Tara S.*

        ^ I don’t have ADHD so I can’t say if it’ll be totally effective, but having a little ritual for disengaging/reengaging with work could be helpful. Like, if a call comes in, stand up for it, or turn away from your computer. Some kind of physical queue for your brain.

    2. Notapirate*

      I don’t take calls but have a variety of coworker interuptions. I found keeping a stack of post it notes handy and taking 10-20 seconds to jot the last thing i was working on before talking to them down worked amazingly for me. It was just enough to let my brain slide back into task A.

      1. LilySparrow*

        ADHD-er also, with very weak working memory. I’m like the guy in Memento – once I’m distracted, the past just ceases to exist. Postits are a lifesaver.

        I write things like START HERE on a postit and draw an arrow to the part of the page (or screen) where I left off. I can do that and still pick up by the 3rd ring.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      This is going to sound too simple to help, but my advice is practice how you will answer the phone. “hi, NSNR, Teapots, Inc. How can I help you?” [outside calls] “hi, NSNR, spout department.” (inside calls)
      The idea here is that your open statement should be as natural as breathing, almost an automatic response. When you have it down pat, it can help to subconsciously remember, “oh yea, there’s a phone beside me”, in turn you feel less startled.

      Keep a tablet or scrap paper near the phone so you can pick up paper and pen as the phone rings. Write down what is said/requested and follow up as best you can. Sometimes my only follow up is a post it note on my monitor to remind me to call someone in 3 hours.

      Turn the ringer down on your phone, a quieter ring might be less startling.

      This is weird so bear with me. If you have a trusted friend at work, ask them to call you three times in a row, five minutes apart. It might not break that startled reaction but I bet it will kick it down a notch or two.

    4. Ender*

      Can you answer and say “hold for a moment” and take notes of what you were doing then talk to the person, then read your notes to help you get back into it?

  53. Glacier*

    I was recently promoted, and will be working more closely with our firm’s top boss. Their executive assistant can be difficult to work with, and very much acts as the gatekeeper. This includes *protecting* top boss from things that might be too… strenuous(?); for example, nothing too early or late in the day, no call-ins from home during WFH days, etc.

    The issue is that there are times when I believe the EA is keeping top boss from meetings they’d actually want to attend if they knew about them.

    How have others navigated similar issues? My MO so far has been to be very pleasant and matter-of-fact, while borrowing heavily from top boss’ authority. Any other ideas?

    1. Dorothy Zbornak*

      Hmm. So the EA is just making the decision that the boss shouldn’t attend those meetings, without checking with boss? That’s tough. There’s no way to approach the boss directly about meetings and then loop the EA in when the boss has either said yes or no to whatever it is?

      I’m an assistant for a VP – there are certain people who, if they request a meeting, I will automatically put on the VP’s calendar without checking with the VP, just because I know who they are and that the VP would definitely want to give them time. (Of course, I later let the VP know that the meeting is on there.) But for other requests, you bet I’m forwarding them to the VP and asking what she wants to do.

    2. Bea*

      How do you know the top boss “might” be interested? Do you think you know her better than her EA??? That’s presumptuous. An EA is usually a dragon projecting the boss with very clear guidelines. I’ve had to brush off so many requests over the years and never asked because I knew. That’s the delicate balance of being someone’s assistant.

      I’ve also had people I know didn’t know my boss as well as they think act like I’m in the way. Behind the scenes my boss was like “never early meetings ever!!! Unless it’s these very specific things or the government.”

  54. Rusty Shackelford*

    Kinda bummed… looked like we were going to bring on a new hire with some skills I’m really interested in, and it also looked like I could have the opportunity to work with that person and pick up some of those skills. Things changed. Which things do; it’s not like anybody owed me this opportunity, but I’m still disappointed.

  55. Boba Feta*

    I just have to laugh. Having lurked around here daily for just over a year now, I thought I had developed a pretty good understanding of proper professional norms surrounding the application process, etc. But then sometimes life throws you the most ironic of curveballs.

    After my (first ever!) post last week (link in name), and upon the sincere encouragement of my very supportive Grandboss, I left a message for the hiring manager asking the favor of feedback on my materials (I know, I know: the Thing that one Shalt Not Do), in case she could isolate anything I could clarify about my potential over-education and under-experience for the jobs into which I’m trying to transition. Well, we had an absolutely delightful conversation in which I learned something very interesting:

    She never saw my application. It never made it past HR. When she couldn’t find my name in her list of applicants, she did some digging to find that HR had pre-screened the (less than 60) applicants to send just over 30. We suspect they saw my degree and most recent (tangential) experience and put me aside as a bad fit. This is apparently a new practice at our organization, and Grandboss was surprised to hear of it when I gave him a quick followup the next day. He actually seemed a bit vexed about the whole thing, and thought HR had overplayed their role in screening out someone based on a mismatch with the “Preferred” qualifications, rather than letting the Hiring Manager be the arbiter of fit at that level.

    In any case, that job is filled, and I’m just left shaking my head. This new screening policy basically guarantees that, should I apply for anything else at my org, I will certainly be sending a brief follow up note directly to the hiring manage to ensure I’m on their radar and didn’t get caught in HR’s unknowable “spam” filter again. It’s like they want their applicants to become pests.

    So now my question is: Is there any alternative than becoming The One Who Emails to ensure that future applications get past the first barrier when the facts of my history don’t accurately convey my ability to do the job, and apparently HR isn’t looking at Cover Letters when their applications system is just a series of fact-response work history boxes?

    1. BRR*

      Since it’s an internal application, would your grandboss be able to send the hiring manager a short email giving a recommendation?

      1. Boba Feta*

        For any future openings at this same institution, I will certainly ask if he’d be willing to do this, yes. That might be a good alternative to sending a follow-up myself, depending on the situation. Thank you!

        I’m just struggling with what to do with external jobs or those outside my field entirely. I seem to have a work and education history that’s near-perfectly designed to bounce right off of an HR application portal for any position outside the relatively narrow scope of my own field, and I’m not at all sure how to deal with it.

        1. BRR*

          The situation stinks and my advice is unpleasant but I wouldn’t contact hiring managers. What I can’t tell is by mismatch to preferred qualifications, do you mean they misinterpreted your qualifications when you did meet the preferred qualifications or do you mean that you didn’t meet them so you got filtered out? Because the former is bad, the later is HR possibly doing what they’re supposed to be doing.

          Your situation is also a little different because you were an internal candidate and HR really messed up by not conveying this new procedure to hiring managers.

          1. Boba Feta*

            BRR: to clarify, I believe, but cannot confirm, that although I did have all the “minimum” and “preferred” requirements, HR filtered me out as a “bad fit” because they saw all kinds of other, additional, “extra” education and experience on my resume. I think this was the part that sat ill with my Grandboss: he thought they should have sent it along and let the hiring manager decide whether I would be a bad fit with my “too many” qualifications, rather than exactly what they thought they wanted.

            But I hear your point about not making a habit of cold-contacting hiring managers, especially in outside fields, even though that’s the bit that is making me so apprehensive about this job search. If everywhere else is also screening out those with “too much” on their resumes, I need to figure out how to present myself differently for a career change to make it past the gatekeepers.

            1. Observer*

              Unfortunately, reaching out to the hiring managers in outside organizations is likely to be a bad move.

              If the HR department is any good, and not over-screening, you are going to wind up looking bad – the hiring managers won’t have the context of your history. Even if the HR department IS over-screening, because the hiring manager doesn’t have any information about you an unexpected follow up email from you is not going to make them think that their HR messed up, but more likely that you are a pest.

              So, you are going to need to find a different solution.

    2. NW Mossy*

      I have seen this happen SO MANY TIMES at my org, and it’s infuriating! I’ve had people applying out to other areas from my team (with my blessing – they’re awesome and deserve to grow) and get radio silence, and it’s invariably because the recruiters failed to pass along their application. I even saw it in a situation where a direct of mine was applying a newly created role that was basically custom-built for her!

      Now, I make it a point to tell all of my directs (not just those actively interested in something) about this pitfall and offer them options to make sure that their application gets attention. Sometimes that will be my direct or me going straight to the hiring manager; other times it might be asking someone currently on that team to make an introduction. However we do it, I don’t want anyone who works for me to apply for something internal and not at least get the courtesy of having a hiring manager look at the application.

      I also make sure to tell all my manager peers that are hiring about this too, especially if they’ve not hired here before or it’s been a while. I found when I was hiring that it really helped to specifically tell my recruiter to send me all internal applicants with no screening, since I wanted to make sure everyone was acknowledged even if I didn’t move forward with them.

      1. Boba Feta*

        NW Mossy, somehow my earlier reply got eaten. In sum: Thank you for all your conscientious efforts to help your reports navigate this particularly insidious type of minefield. One ought not need “tactics” to ensure that well-qualified folk get their applications noticed by the right people, yet here we are.

        I only ever received two (2!) communications across this entire application process: 1) automated email acknowledging the application had been submitted, and then 2) standard format rejection notification that the role had been filled by “thank you for your interest.” Le Sigh. Although now I know better for any future opportunities at my org., this whole ordeal has made me suspicious about Every. Other. Place.

  56. Staja*

    I am just finishing up week 2 at what I hope to be a better opportunity for me. The new job comes with a 35% increase in pay, a better title, my own office…and all the self-doubt that making such a huge leap entails.

    So far, I’ve just been entering information into databases and manipulating practice spreadsheets, but I’m terrified of emailing the wrong thing to our Asian country manager or something…

  57. Lance*

    How do you deal with workplace confidence issues, especially as a temp intern?

    I’ll be honest, a bunch of my time at my current job is spent doing… well, nothing. Just waiting for the next spreadsheet they have to give me so I can match parts of it with a horribly laggy web file (suffice it to say, I don’t like my job… but it’s still a job that I want to try and make something of, so that’s rather besides the point). My issue, ultimately, is that I want more. Something I can actually gain some sort of skills off of, something to put on my resume for later. I know, I should just go and ask… but for anyone who’s dealt with similar, how’ve you gotten yourself to do it?

    Really, any sort of tips would be much appreciated.

    1. MechanicalPencil*

      Identify the friendliest, most approachable face. Rehearse your speech. Go forth and conquer. You have a goal in mind. Get after it.

    2. Rezia*

      Presuming you have a supervisor, could you ask for additional work? Of course, you have to make sure that the work you’re already given is done well, but then you can explain you still have some extra time and would love to take on another task. If you’ve noticed that there are tasks that are left undone that you could take on, you could suggest them to your supervisor.
      Depending on your work place is set up, with your supervisor’s blessing, you might be able to ask other team members if they need help and let them know you’re available. At my previous workplace, some of our best interns were proactive about offering help to the team (our manager knew the interns were doing this, and okayed it).

      If it helps you psych yourself up, I’d say this – in my experience, interns that are proactive (without being pestering or presumptuous, of course!) are the best interns, and I’ve always thought well of interns who are eager to contribute. It shows your boss that you’re enthusiastic about working there and eager to learn. Ultimately, they might not have more work for you to do, and you’d just have to accept that graciously if that’s the case. But it really doesn’t hurt to ask.

  58. in the file room*

    I’ve just started a new job in a branch of the federal government – an office environment, normal hours, benefits, etc. Before this, I was working in the film and television industry on sets, which meant outdoor work, insane hours, very few benefits, and so on. But what I’ve noticed most is the difference in professional norms. It’s pretty wild to go from hanging out with teamsters on a street corner while they chain-smoke to chatting with my boss and coworkers in our climate-controlled records room! I’ve worked in an office environment before, so it’s not exactly a shock so much as a comical (and sometimes sobering) contrast.

    Anyone have any good stories about moving between workplaces or industries where the concept of professionalism varies dramatically?

    1. Anonygrouse*

      I worked in a clinic targeting late adolescents to 20-somethings. We got a new non-clinical staffer who said in the middle of a meeting “everyone here sure talks about chlamydia a lot.” (Chlamydia was our go-to example for pretty much any hypothetical policy, QI study, etc.) That same person wound up in a meeting with a provider who said the EMR template for taking sexual history was “too vanilla” and starting naming new checkboxes she wanted added.

      1. Quackeen*

        My husband used to work at a public health agency that specifically dealt with STIs. His desk was located near the hotline staffers, so while he himself was non-clinical, the backdrop to his work was listening to conversations about sexual practices and safe sex.

    2. Not Really a Waitress*

      I went from being a member of the management team at a manufacturing site to an instructor at a university.

      Manufacturing site : only female, lots of smoke breaks, cursing, small protest when new site mgr told managers they needed to wear collared shirts, more cursing, yelling

      Academia: no cursing. Not only female but still the minority, voices barely above a whisper, dress down to collared shirts only on fridays, much more political.

    3. Lora*

      Swimming with sharks megacorp where every last thing you did was carefully calibrated to avoid the next round of layoffs: dress as professionally as you can in a lab, present a complete “story” of data every other week like clockwork (referencing all colleagues involved in a nice PowerPoint slide deck), data reviewed by a team of your peers and roundly critiqued for replicability and accuracy. If your data failed this testing, you were next on the layoff list. All drinking confined to a bar and occurring after 5pm, regularly have breakfast/lunch talks about what your lab has accomplished, very structured opportunities for self-promotion which was quite nice for introverts. Weirdly, the sexism and racism were somewhat controlled – while there weren’t many women in senior management, there were perhaps 1/4 – 1/3 women at the junior and middle levels. Many employees of color, not just Asian, and many LGBT employees.

      Smallish startup that prided itself on its flexible thinking and leftish politics: dress like you’re trying to get out of some heinous white collar crime before the Supreme Court, use only their corporate-approved art and phrase every communication no matter how trivial as if you’re trying to gently, discreetly tell the CEO that his fly is down using only euphemisms / charades / interpretive dance, rarely if ever communicate with other departments outside of whatever impromptu veiled implications you can impart to them as you pass in the break room, but start drinking by 3pm every single afternoon at your desk. Or the boss’ desk. Or the director’s desk, because they all kept top shelf whisky in their desks. Data almost never shared, certainly never reviewed or critiqued, and zero accountability for generating crap that no other department could work with. Few employees of color or women, even at the middle management level, and rampant discrimination on many levels.

      I’ll never work for another startup.

    4. Brownie*

      I was at a tech startup for several years where, despite us never having any face time with clients, I was told to maintain a business professional appearance at all times for the clients. No t-shirts, jeans were only acceptable if they looked straight out of the factory (no rips or fading), and very explicitly no facial piercings or unnaturally colored hair. All language must be scrutinized and cleaned up in case a client might hear, too. Perfectly clean work spaces at all times, no clutter allowed, no personalization allowed beyond a choice of company supplied pens or pencils. The professionalism there was all about appearances.

      Now I work for a federal government agency. The dress standards are so much looser, there’s a coworker who wears jeans and a graphic t-shirt, several with facial piercings, lots of visible tattoos, and me with my cotton candy pink hair. Hearing an occasional swear word over the cube walls isn’t unusual either. It’s so relaxing compared to the startup and the level of professionalism is much higher because it’s about the job instead of the appearance of the job.

  59. ANONchalant*

    What do you do when it’s performance review time but you genuinely don’t care? I’m so nonchalant that previous managers have found it almost annoying. Typically I do pretty well for reviews and get some of the highest scores but sometimes I feel managers are looking for more investment than I have. Don’t get my wrong I like my job and the mission of the company.
    For instance a performance review a year ago (different company) my manager was excited to read off how amazing I was from her end. I was just like “okay thanks”. I have no problem receiving positive or negative feedback but I’ve genuinely been a nonchalant person my whole life. The type of person that opens Christmas presents with a straight face. I’m dreading the talk and I think I’ll just fake some investment with over the top: WOW THANKS! and for areas where I need to improve: THANKS FOR THE FEEDBACK! I’LL WORK ON THAT IMMEDIATELY BY DOING X AND Y TO IMPROVE! How do others do in the performance review discussion?

    1. Mouse Princess*

      Wow I just had the same experience! I was getting a rave review and found it really hard to even focus on what they were saying. I took it as confirmation that I am not supposed to be at this job if I don’t even care that I am doing it well. Plus, it doesn’t factor into my pay (we get general salary increases as a base percentage) so I don’t care.

    2. Nanc*

      You might get some tips from Thanks for the Feedback: The Science and Art of Receiving Feedback Well. I’ve found it useful both for receiving and giving feedback. Your local library may have a dead tree or e-book copy.

      I’m pretty sure someone on AAM recommended the book in an open thread at some point and that’s how I heard of it.

    3. Anna Held*

      When I’m zoning out on something I’ll ask a question. It makes my brain engage a bit and makes me seem more interested than I am. Bring in a few stock questions like “How can I improve in X?” or “I sometimes worry about Y, should I be?” so you seem more engaged.

      I wish I could be more nonchalant.

    4. CAA*

      It sounds like you are treating the performance review as if it were a presentation or show your manager is putting on and you are reacting neutrally to whatever you hear. But a performance review should be a two-way conversation, so if your manager seems annoyed, it could be because you are behaving like an observer instead of a participant in this conversation.

      It’s not about feigning enthusiasm for the feedback you’re getting. It’s about communicating your agreement or disagreement with what you are hearing and explaining why you feel that way, and talking about plans and goals for your job going forward. Listen to what your manager says and then respond in a way that moves the conversation forward.

      1. ANONchalant*

        Ah, yea I react when speaking to a manager: yes I agree with what you’ve said about x (but then don’t elaborate).

        I agree that it does seem like they are looking for more but when you genuinely don’t care it’s hard to even present more. I have a hard time even filling out my self review and coming up with goals. When it was goal time my entire department let out a universal sigh. Including the director.

    5. Sloan Kittering*

      I too hate the conversation because I feel like my needy manager wants a lot of emotional work from me – lots of gratefulness for the pat on the head she’s handing out, and lots of reinforcing that She Is the Boss Whose Opinions Really Matter and I the fawning minion. But that’s because I have a terrible attitude about work right now.

      1. ANONchalant*

        Ha! I’ve definitely felt that way about a previous position where Manager became literally let down and annoyed that I wasn’t excited about her rave reviews. I appreciated the feedback but not emotionally or a visible reaction to it. I remember sitting in the review and thinking that eh she could have given me all 1’s and I wouldn’t have cared honestly.

        1. Sloan Kittering*

          Well and at my previous job, you basically all got the same COLA unless you really screwed up, and it was just called a “merit raise” – 2.5% Maybe some truly high performers got more. So the whole song and dance didn’t have much practical point, because I was going to get the same raise whether she thought I was fine or great.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      Okay, so at one end there is “okay, thanks” and at the other end there is jumping up and down and shaking the boss’ hand.

      You can do something in the middle. “Thanks for the nice eval. I enjoy working here.”

      What the boss is interested in is seeing that you are connected to the job. A flat “Okay thanks” can read like a disconnect. I am not saying change your voice inflection, nor am I saying lie to the boss. However, do try to use more words. “I am glad to see you are happy with my work. That is important to me.” Or, “Thanks for the nice eval, I try to make sure you and the company get done what needs to be done.”

      If a person uses one or two word answers too many times that can read as the person is totally disconnected from their work/their employer. It’s really a good idea to make sure the boss sees you expressing some form of interest/involvement in the job. I have seen where this is important to do. If layoffs/promotions/whatever come around, you don’t want the boss thinking of you as Disconnected David or Apathetic Ann.

    1. MissGirl*

      The woman who was fire for “taking initiative” and wanted to sue. What she really did was undercut her perfectly good manager and go off in her.

      Alison’s response that she would’ve fired her too was perfect. Ah, gumption.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I like happy endings, so I sometimes go back to letters with positive updates like the spicy food thief and the guy who was managing someone that was harmed by his family.

      1. Lissa*

        Spicy food thief was one of the first letters and the first “big drama” letter I read after I started reading here so I have a soft spot for it!!

    4. Quackeen*

      Yup. I have terrible insomnia, so I’m always falling down rabbit holes after the new post goes up at midnight (eastern time). I doubt there are any letters on here that I haven’t read, and some I just revisit because they’re fascinating.

      I’ve also started a mental list of letters I really NEED updates to. This one about the employee who set up a false fraud investigation because she was being abused and needed an excuse to talk to the police is at the top of that list: https://www.askamanager.org/2017/05/my-employee-set-up-a-false-fraud-investigation-because-she-was-being-abused-and-wanted-the-police.html. Also the one that was linked to last week, with the employee who had ever-worsening OCD, to the point where coworkers had to be symmetrical in their attire and line up by gender at the bus stop outside. I live for updates!

      1. Temperance*

        I am going to add the bird attack letter to that, only because I selfishly want an update where we find out that the company decided to do the right thing and pay off the medical bills.

      2. WellRed*

        I wonder what the OCD employee does in the mornings catching the bus to work? Line up strangers this way?

        1. Chocolate Teapot*

          There was a sad letter about a small company whose employees had taken a collection for a colleague’s premature baby, but the person who was going to pay the money died in a car crash before it could be given. I often wondered what happened.

      3. fposte*

        I think the false fraud investigation and the “I’m the boss of somebody my family member horribly wronged” are the two that hurt my heart most in how bad I felt for everybody. We did at least get updates on the latter.

    6. Middle School Teacher*

      Intern dress code letter. The whole thing was so amazing from beginning to end, including the update, AND when another intern wrote in because she’d been part of that group and got fired too.

    7. Not So NewReader*

      I liked the credit card guy’s story, I was so happy to see how that whole thing turned around for him.

    9. neverjaunty*

      I think if there is ever an AAM house band, it would have to be called “Complicated Gumption”.

    10. Chaordic One*

      I’ve always wondered what happened at the neglected branch office where the whole team resigned at once. Would have loved to read a followup.

  61. K*

    I want to learn how to do museum conservation/fossil preparation/etc. (natural history materials, not art). Maybe for work, maybe not. By chance does anyone here know about schools, volunteer projects, or anything else that relates? No fieldwork. Any and all information might be helpful. For instance one point of confusion I have is that I’ll see job postings that ask for a MA in Museum Studies… but I can’t find any schools that offer a MA in Museum Studies.

    For background, my BA is in Biology with some anthropology courses. One semester I interned in an anthropology lab in a museum doing skeletal cleaning and a tiny bit of casting. (I’m doing something unrelated currently.)

    1. Anon From Here*

      The University of Delaware has a certificate, undergraduate, and graduate program in museum studies. So that this comment isn’t caught in moderation, I’ll just suggest googling the relevant words in my previous sentence. The website doesn’t do the program justice; it’s very well respected and names of experts from UD’s program pop up in the news from time to time.

    2. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Are you in the US? I can think of a bunch of schools that have museum studies departments . I know some people who have those degrees (Johns Hopkins, Georgetown, NYU come to mind, and I think one person I know got hers at GW). I think the key is that if you truly want to go into this field, you may have to determine whether getting the degree makes sense for you. You can also call museums and ask about volunteer opportunities, but be prepared for them to require some kind of additional education or experience. I once visited the La Brea Tar Pits and was pleasantly surprised to learn that a lot of the people we saw cleaning artifacts were volunteers.

        1. AvonLady Barksdale*

          All of the responses you’re getting should tell you that going abroad isn’t necessary. :) If you Google “MA Museum Studies”, you should find plenty of options if that’s the area you want to explore.

      2. There are no dinosaurs here*

        Hi! I actually used to work for the Tar Pits, and yes, we use a lot of volunteers. There are a lot of natural history museums that rely on volunteers for fossil prep and cataloguing, so I’d recommend just visiting some near you and asking the staff.

    3. lisalee*

      I have a Museum Studies certificate (which is a professional non-Master’s program my undergrad offered). Off the top of my head, the University of Iowa and the University of Michigan are both public schools that offer Museum Studies master’s, or they did when I still thought I might go into it professionally. These programs are also sometimes called “Museum Arts” programs.

      Conservation master’s programs tend to be very specialized and require a certain number of hours working in conservation to even apply. For natural history I think you would have more lucky going the volunteer/intern route anyway.

      Natural history is a little weird in that many people come into it from archaeology, anthropology, conservation (the wildlife kind, not the “taking care of objects” kind) or zoology. In my experience, many museum studies programs focus more on history/art/archives type stuff. With a BA in biology, I actually think you would have a good chance of getting a volunteer job or internship at a natural history museum. One of my professors was a biologist who had fallen into being a collections manager.

      1. lisalee*

        Oh, also, in college I got a lot of volunteer work by just cold-emailing people in museum departments I thought were cool. A lot of places don’t bother to post requests for volunteers.

      2. K*

        UMich doesn’t anymore. :( They do have a certificate in Museum Studies, but you have to be a current or recent graduate.

    5. Cashews and Coffee*

      There are specific conservation MS programs — NYU has one. They are quite competitive and require you to have taken organic chemistry and some other things. Maybe there are also certificates in specific kinds of conservation though? Museum studies programs tend to be geared towards collections management and might have some courses on conservation but perhaps not to the extent you want/need.

    6. Grits McGee*

      Former museum person here! How much are you interested in doing conservation/lab work as a job vs. as a task itself? From my experience, the competition for collections management jobs (esp. ones that pay a living wage/have benefits) is fierce. If you’re able to, it’s way easier to volunteer. The only downside is that most facilities will only have be open to you during standard working hours.

      Are you near any large universities? Many of them have some kind of natural history museum or collections, and I’ve had good luck in the past getting volunteer positions. Plus, since they’re used to working with students, they’re more open to approaching volunteering as a learning experience,

  62. Dame Judi Brunch*

    I’ve been in my current job over a year and don’t see myself doing this long term.
    I was contacted by an old coworker that has moved up the ladder at a different company. He was recruiting me for a job.
    I feel like this is opportunity knocking, but am a little scared. Is this feeling normal? Any advice? I’m asking him lots of questions about the role and company.
    Thanks!

    1. Anna Held*

      That sounds great!

      Change is always hard, even good changes. I’m passing on Carolyn Hax’s advice for making major decisions. Do your research, your pro and con lists, etc, then make your decision — but don’t announce it. Just live with it a while and start planning your new life. Are you thrilled or feeling dread? There’s your answer.

      1. Dame Judi Brunch*

        Very sound advice, thank you!
        I’m thrilled, but also a very cautious person by nature, so I think that’s a big part of my worrying about this. And my current job doesn’t suck, but it’s not perfect and I already know I won’t be able to do this long term.
        Part of me worries if I chase this opportunity I’ll be unhappy with the outcome, but a bigger part of me thinks I will kick myself.
        We are still just talking, so nothing set in stone yet!

    2. Bea*

      It’s absolutely the norm for most people I’m learning. I’m a calculated risk takes with failsafes in place but am often viewed as wildly risky by many others

      Being cautious is good but exploring options and creating your own adventures can also happen along the way. Every job change carries a risk and it’s normal to be apprehensive and reel in your expectations.

    3. Sleepytime Tea*

      I actually find that the BEST jobs come from former coworkers who are recommending a position for you. They have worked with you and know what you like, what you’re good at, if you would be a good fit at the company, etc. No matter what anyone says in an interview (and they will always highlight the good and downplay if not outright lie about the bad and the ugly), going to a brand new company where you don’t know anyone means that you don’t know for sure what you’re getting into. When you know someone “on the inside” they can be honest with you in ways that you won’t get through the regular job process. Additionally, their personal relationship with you and their professional relationship with their employer can be impacted by recommending you if you aren’t actually a good fit for the job. Most people don’t want to take those risks, so their recommendation of you means that they really believe that you would do well.

      Ask lots of questions, but jump in and check it out! Do the same due diligence you would for any job, but look at this as having some insight you wouldn’t get otherwise and take it as a good thing.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      He picked you for a reason or several. Find a way to ask him why or ask him what makes him think you would be okay in this new job.

  63. Dr. Vanessa Poseidon*

    Has any one successfully negotiated a raise as a permatemp (i.e., long-term, renewable contract position through a staffing agency)? Or is it just the nature of these positions that you need to leave to get more money?

    I’d like to advocate for more money when my contract renews in a few months, but I have no idea if that’s normal as a contractor.

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I’d suggest that you bring it up at least a month in advance of your contract renewal. These things take a lot longer when you’re dealing with a 3rd party. Most likely, you will need to talk to your agency and make your case for why you deserve an increase. Then they will go to their contact at the client to pitch it and likely it will need to be discussed internally.

    2. Persimmons*

      I did! I dealt exclusively with the temp agency for this, not the company. The temp agency was VERY reluctant to negotiate and played a lot of head games, because any raise for me came out of their cut. I would advise finding out exactly where every cent is going before making the attempt. You won’t know how to approach people unless you can understand their motivations first.

      Have you floated the idea at all previously? When I initially accepted the position, I expressed my displeasure with the salary, and was told to give it 6 months of “proving myself”. You can bet that I reminded the temp agency of that conversation promptly and frequently.

    3. Merlin*

      I did, but it was a very difficult process. Loop in your staffing agency, some of those agencies prefer to be the ones to do the negotiation (mine definitely is), and then if your manager promises something and reneges come contract renewal (mine did….) you have more force to push back.

      Small raises can be the norm in some industries – most contractors in my area do ask for and receive small raises each renewal (absolutely token amounts though). You can negotiate for larger raises sometimes, but it tends to be difficult. But, the larger raises still tend to be much smaller than what you would get by jumping positions.

  64. Mouse Princess*

    I drugged my boss’s kid and then myself at work.

    My boss had her 10-year-old at work because he was sick. She was on the phone with a client when he started wailing and crawling all over her, crying that his head hurt. I’m not a mom but I love kids and felt really bad for him. She looked at me in kind of a panic and I realized I had Advil in my purse. I handed her two Advil and she gave him one. Then they went home. (Cue advice on why you should not have your sick kid at work, etc).

    A week later I had a headache, and I reached into my bag and took two of the same pills I’d given her. I found myself getting really sleepy and cold, yawning a ton, fighting falling asleep at my desk. It was then that I realized that I had taken Unisom – an over the counter sleep aid, not Advil. And at the same moment, I realized that I had given this same thing to her child!

    I immediately told her that I had accidentally taken a sleep aid instead of Advil – since I wasn’t sure if I’d be able to remain at work. I drank a ton of water, ate some food, and drank some coffee, and within two hours I felt ok again. It was scary and incredibly embarrassing to have drugged myself at work. I felt even worse though for giving her the wrong medicine for her child.

    I didn’t mention to her that I suspected that I had given the same thing to her child, since he was fine and I was incredibly embarrassed. Unisom is generally considered harmless, it is an antihistamine like Benadryl. But I obviously would never have opted to give a child this medicine, especially not knowing his medical history.

    I had just started this job about 2 months before this happened and didn’t know what to do. I just let it blow over. She probably put two and two together, but no real harm was done through my obvious negligence. We are close now, and I don’t get any sense that she holds this against me at all. Should I have mentioned to her that it was the same thing her child took? Was I right to let it blow over?

    1. Cousin Itt*

      I wouldn’t be too harsh on yourself, seeing as you gave it to the mom to give to the child rather than giving it to him yourself without her consent and it doesn’t appear to have harmed him. At the end of the day his mom also gave her child a pill without looking closely at what it was first or she may even have actually seen what it was and thought him taking something to get him off to sleep was fine.

    3. Rosemary7391*

      Are you sure that you did hand over Unisom? I’m not clear how you’re sure about that given the general confusion, and I think it’s possible enough that you did give them Advil that you’re in the clear anyway.

      I’d always assume by handing medicine over to a parent that they’re taking full responsibility for giving it to their child. I don’t know what child appropriate doses are for instance. I just hand over the box and it’s up to them to read and administer correctly. Even if you take it out of the box the blister pack usually has enough info to work out what it is and how much.

      1. Sloan Kittering*

        Yeah, you were in the wrong but not really more than she was, and there’s enough uncertainty here and it’s all in the past that I wouldn’t bring it up again. If she remarked on a weird reaction the kid had I would probably suggest this but she didn’t. This is the reason I try not to share my pills, even though they’re all just OTC – I mix up advil and tylenol in one bottle anyway (I like to alternate for my cramps and headaches) and I wouldn’t want to be responsible for giving someone the wrong thing. Especially to children, I know they can’t have some common meds (aspirin, I think?).

        1. TootsNYC*

          I -never- move pills out of the bottle they’re labeled as. I don’t even feel comfortable dumping the capsule-shaped ibuprofen in with the tablet shape!

          1. Mouse Princess*

            Yeah I will NEVER do that again. I was using a bag I never use and they had been in there from a trip for a conference that I’d gone on over a year before. At that time I’d been struggling with insomnia but once I stopped having the sleep issues I forgot that I ever had unisom.

    4. Nita*

      OMG. That must have been so scary for you. I’m glad everyone is OK! I think I would say something, because she may still be freaking about about why her child complained his head hurt and then pretty much passed out. If you’re not sure if you grabbed the Unisom or the Advil, just ask if he was OK afterwards and say you’re worried you *might* have given him the same thing.

      And lots of learning experience all around. For her, to not bring her sick child to work. And for you, to not carry two similar pill bottles next to each other without making sure you can tell them apart in a pinch (colored sticker on the label, maybe?)

    5. Bea*

      The thing with kids and antihistamines is they can get hyped up on them. Benadryl can be given but instead of zonking out, they hit the walls. I sure did and I’m a mild insomniac now, so I’m using it constantly for sleep in my old age.

      You should not carry your pills all jumbled up for that reason!

    7. neverjaunty*

      Yes, you should have mentioned it to her. It’s not a mortal sin or the end of the world, but knowing that your kid took a different drug than you thought can be pretty important.

  65. Greg NY*

    Is work your first priority? What I mean by this is, when there are conflicts between work and other aspects of your life, does work always take priority barring emergencies in which you cannot possibly make it into work (or stay late, or work at home in the early mornings, evenings, or on the weekends)?

    1. LCL*

      Yes, because I have a full time job and that is the understanding that goes with it. I am either there or use paid leave to be absent during scheduled hours. I would totally arrange my job schedule around my leisure time and social life if I had a job that allowed that. I don’t think less of people who have more flexible schedules, though I am slightly envious. Unless they want to work here, and say ‘my last job let me do this, why can’t I do it here?’

    2. NicoleK*

      Work is my first priority for two reasons: I don’t have children and I’m the primary breadwinner. However, my work place is flexible so I usually can accommodate family obligations.

    3. Anon From Here*

      No. I figured out a while ago that I can always get another source of income, but I can’t replace my friends and family.

      That sounds hokey, but I put my money where my mouth is just last month when a friend was in town and I took 2 unpaid days off from work to visit with them.

      I acknowledge that not everybody has the freedom to do this. I’m in a temp gig right now, I’m a professional, I brought up the 2 unpaid days a few weeks in advance with my supervisor, and my workload has been very light lately. I’ll also note that, while my household has a nice nest egg in the bank, we do not have much saved for a lengthy retirement. But I definitely prioritized my friend’s visit over 16 hours’ worth of pay.

    4. Sloan Kittering*

      No. I try to work at places where I believe in the mission so my labor is going to something I care about, but I care more about being a moral person and enjoying my life than I do about climbing the corporate ladder or making more money. My enjoyment of life comes from my creative pursuits and my relationships. I work for money.

    5. Nita*

      No. No one else will put my kids first. They come last often enough as it is – I’ve hauled them out of the house crying and taken them to day care so many times, and I knew they have a legit reason to need me, but there was a deadline or a meeting I couldn’t miss. So whenever I have the option of putting them first, I do.

      1. The New Wanderer*

        Same here. When my office moved and my commute doubled, my manager asked how I was going to handle being away from home more each day. I told him that I wasn’t going to take the extra commute time out of my family time, I was going to take it out of my salary. (That only worked because of my particular circumstances, being a part timer with an excellent rep – I wouldn’t generally recommend being so open!)

    6. Temperance*

      My relationship with my husband is theoretically more important than work, but we’re childless so it’s not something that ever comes up.

    7. Crylo Ren*

      Work was my first priority for most of my career, but that lead to a lot of very intense burn-out. The last straw for me was at my last job, where I had to put vacations on hold or otherwise make myself available even though I was in an entirely different time zone, and worked 12+ hour days most of the time. I had several breakdowns during that year and a half and was seriously depressed.

      However, this past year I’ve been fortunate to land a job at a laid-back company with a very understanding, generous boss, so I’ve been prioritizing family and other life things much more, and I’m so much happier. This has been especially important this year because I’ve been dealing with death and illness in my family – it’s really driven home the understanding that I can always get a different job, but I can’t get that time back with people I love.

    8. OtterB*

      No. I earned a social science PhD, took a job in a not-for-profit doing research that interested me, and looked forwarding to making a contribution to my field as well as my organization. I’m not sure how it would have panned out if I had two typical children. But Daughter the Younger was born with disabilities. No major medical conditions, thank goodness, though there were some moderate ones when she was younger, but she has intellectual disabilities and a constellation of accompanying issues. Almost twenty years ago, when she was a preschooler and her sister was in kindergarten/1st grade, I was juggling a full-time job with therapy appointments while my husband had a work project that took him out of town from Sunday night through Friday night nearly every week (and his job had the plus of keeping her in awesome corporate childcare center, so it wasn’t a “quit that job” no-brainer for him). And I hit my breaking point. Dropped to part-time at work, which was fortunately an option. We relocated a couple of years later and I kept telecommuting for OldJob. Eventually when I shifted back to full time, flexibility was a key requirement and has been one of the things that has kept me in my current job for more than 10 years.

    9. Koala dreams*

      No, I have mental health problems, and I put my health first. Sometimes that means calling in sick at work or come in later because of appointments with health professionals. It also means I’m working part time even though I’m single and don’t have another income in my household.

      I also think that I’m not doing work a favour in the long run if I put work first even though I’m sick or have family issues, since it will make my work product go down. You need to have time for you to be able to do a good job for others.

    10. Bea*

      In theory my partner comes first of course but we’re both healthy without kids. So barring an emergency in that aspect, work is first priority. We depend on the income and most importantly I love my work. I’m dedicated to my job and company because it keeps me busy doing things I enjoy. The health of the business directly lines the pockets of everyone else here and I’m happy to be in the mix.

      I don’t keep jobs I’m not happy with though.

    11. MissDisplaced*

      Generally work. But I don’t have kids and as the primary breadwinner I have to support myself.
      But this has fluctuated over the years and with different jobs. When I was in college (as a working adult) I often put the priority on finishing my education because I knew that particular job wasn’t a life career choice.

    12. KMB213*

      No, and I won’t work a job without at least a little bit of flexibility. I’m fine having a job with typical hours, but I need to be able to say, take a two hour lunch and stay an hour later, or take Friday afternoon off and work an extra hour each day Monday-Friday when I need to.

      I have a chronic health condition and also help care for my mother, who has the same chronic health condition, though hers is more advanced. (My parents are still together and my father is able to care for my mother for the most part, but both my sister and I help, as well.)

      Even without the chronic health condition, my family and SO would come first.

    13. A Non E. Mouse*

      No. My immediate family comes first.

      I do try really hard to keep both in balance, and will come into work/work from home in the evenings and on weekends as needed, but not at the expense of my family.

    14. Ender*

      No. My family is my first priority. However it depends on the level of need from each. For example if my child had to go to the hospital I would absolutely leave work to go mind my sick child. However if I was asked to work late for an hour to do something that had to be done that day or it would delay the project by a week, I would work late if there was nothing big happening at home. Depends on level of need from both work and family. But if there was equal amounts of need from both work and family, I would prioritise family.

    15. Yorkshire Rose*

      I work to live; I don’t live to work. I am known as the person who gets things done, and so with this reputation, along with a generous time-off benefit at my job, people don’t worry about my schedule because I am salaried for one, and I get all my work done well.

      When family members or friends die, it really puts into perspective how unimportant loyalty to your employer really is.

    16. Greg NY*

      Thank you to all that have replied to my question so far. I’m glad that I’m not the only one that feels the way I do.

  66. Tessa Karlov*

    My college’s chancellor likes to mention being a “lifelong learner”. I don’t quite know what he means by that, so what do you all do that would fit this? Thanks!

    1. KR*

      I’ve always understood it to mean pursuing knowledge, schooling, new information, and advancing yourself continually as you live life as opposed to just going to school and then that’s that, no more education. So for me this means reading books, learning new skills, and always thinking what the next degree I could get is.

    2. Mockingjay*

      In my industry, we pursue a lot of certifications and training classes, which I like. Certs keep our skills and knowledge up-to-date and can be earned in a short period, as opposed to a degree. I’ve earned technical certs and taken courses in business and software skills. I find I am much more engaged in an in-depth, week-long course than I would be in an evening Master’s class. Also, many courses are taken online, so I can work on these whenever.

    4. Ender*

      I believe in continual self-improvement. I am always trying to learn new things and to improve myself. I figure over time you gather bad habits, so you need to continually make an effort to improve yourself just to stay still.

    5. Enough*

      My daughter’s high school principal used Header Learner as his title. He was not well liked. She felt he never listened to the students. So I’m not sure what he was learning.

    6. Harvey P. Carr*

      I think “lifelong learner” just means continually being open-minded, being receptive, to new things and concepts and stuff like that. It doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with formal classroom education.

    7. Chaordic One*

      At one of my previous employers they made a big deal about taking “Continuing Education” courses. Most of the time, you had to take them on your own personal time, because they were in the evenings, but the company would pay for everything.

      Usually it learning to use new software applications, but sometimes they’d have courses where’d you’d learn about new features that were put in updated software programs so it was kind of like a refresher course plus you got to learn about the new revisions.

  67. Why Do Managers Do These Things??*

    And the non-working coworker saga continues. The best part is, the other coworker assigned to actually help me hasn’t been to work since last Friday. No, not vacation, not medical leave, not really anything, this person didn’t even bother to call in yesterday or today.

    Maybe I need to start working only when my office mate works.

    1. Free Meerkats*

      I did something like that a while back at $previousjob. The other lab tech was a 3 pack a day smoker, so she was out back smoking a lot. I don’t smoke, so I kept a book in my back pocket and whenever coworker would take a smoke break, I’d take a reading break.

      That lasted less than a week before the lab manager put a stop to unscheduled breaks. I got less reading in and coworker dropped to probably 2 packs a day.

  68. a woman*

    I have a question on women’s groups in the workplace – what do you think they are actually for? Ours has a slack channel where we share articles, talk about different conferencing and networking events, set up speakers to come talk to us, etc. What I’m wondering, is this the place to bring up issues at work? For example, pay equity or harassment? The vibe at our group is definitely ‘women are awesome!’ and ‘don’t rock the boat’.

    Do I rock the boat? Do I just find a better place to work that doesn’t have such issues? When I brought up these issues with my manager, they reframed them to put a positive spin on things and I’m pretty disenchanted.

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      I wouldn’t do an open channel post on Slack that was like, “creeper guys at our org to watch out for” (that’s a private chat topic!) but I think you could push a little for more hard-hitting questions like, “does our company truly have pay equity? Can they prove it?” or “what percentage of senior staff are female? What percentage of the Board are female? What could we be doing to improve those numbers” or “how’s our maternity leave policy, do we also offer paternity leave and family care leave” – doesn’t have to be all like yay girls are great.

    2. epi*

      It really depends on the organization. I have always worked as a researcher or research staff, so the women’s groups in organizations where I’ve worked covered a combination of professional development for the attendees, and educational topics that were about women as patients/research subjects/clients. One series I attended on women’s health research, I would say about half the time I thought the topic was relevant to my own research and half the time I was attending because it was relevant to my personal health. The one time I remember us having a discussion about pay and advancement (at an academic medical center), my only real takeaway was that I was no alone in feeling underpaid and if there was anyone who managed to remedy that for herself, they didn’t share that day.

      I have found women’s group meetings of really mixed value, in general. On the other hand, having other women as coworkers and mentors has really benefited me. Women’s groups can be one way to meet them and have more valuable– which can often mean more sensitive– discussions later in the relationship and in private.

    3. Anon for this one*

      I’d also like to learn more about this, especially re:what value can they bring if you don’t currently have women in leadership/dedication and commitment from leadership. Women can only support each other so much if there isn’t any help from the men.

  69. TonyTonyChopper*

    Was told in a town hall yesterday promotions and merit raises will be cascading via our managers within the next 10 days. Received an automated email from our HRIS system saying my performance manager and expense manager have changed to someone I’ve never met, and I haven’t heard anything from my current/previous manager (who, to be fair is in London and I’m in the US so the time difference makes scheduling difficult sometimes).

    I’m not worried or anything, just curious and also annoyed that HR is processing things before Managers have time to talk to their employees. Now I’ll spend the whole weekend trying not to obsess on whether this is just part of the restructuring we know is going to happen or if this could mean I’m getting moved into a new role or new account (since I am technically being considered for a promotion but waiting on details to be solidified before they decide who they want in the role). *sigh*

  70. I'm not blah, I am a hoot!*

    I have this coworker who constantly tells people she is a workaholic, can’t take a vacation because there is “too much to do”, etc. It is really annoying to deal with, because she feels the need to one-up everyone who has a looming deadline or a big project: she always has it worse.
    We are peers and relatively close, and she has told me in confidence that sometimes she spends weeks with barely anything to do, but keeps clamoring to who will listen about being soooo busy.
    Now we get to deal with the double whammy of her talking about being a workaholic AND the fact that she needs a vacation so bad because she is close to the burnout. But she won’t schedule time off. (and when she does take a day or two off, she will come back to work saying it “did not count as a vacation” because she was visiting family, and therefore it was like she did not take days off). When others schedule vacation, she quips that “it must be nice” and she wishes she could take a vacation. Nothing is preventing her from doing so!
    I feel like all of it is just a facade, and she is trying to emulate the behavior of our manager who is very busy and works long hours because of her responsibilities within the company.
    How do you deal with people like that? My (internal) eye rolls are getting stronger and stronger. We work closely so I get to hear about this very often.

    1. NicoleK*

      Oh I feel your pain. My coworker complains constantly about how much work she has and how busy she is. The truth is that she socializes too much, is slow at completing tasks, struggles with technology, and struggles with email composition. There are a lot of other issues too with my coworker, but I won’t get into it. If you figure out how to deal with your coworker, let me know. I could use some tips.

    2. Rusty Shackelford*

      When others schedule vacation, she quips that “it must be nice” and she wishes she could take a vacation. Nothing is preventing her from doing so!

      My favorite response to this is “Yes, it *is* nice.”

      And when she whines about not being able to take a vacation, I’d be tempted to say “Sure you can. You just choose not to. I’m sorry you’re not happy with your choice.” But I probably wouldn’t have the cojones.

      1. irene adler*

        Maybe go a step further.
        When she complains about something…. ask her what she intends to do about it. For everything she whines about.

        She wants the attention. But it’s no longer fun when confronted with having to remedy her ‘issues’.

        When she repeats a complaint, then say something along the lines of, ” I am no longer sympathetic because you won’t embark on a plan to alleviate your plight. So I’ll thank you not to bring up this ‘issue’ again. “

        1. Thanks, FY :(*

          Do you try to help somebody who should be job hunting but has a strangely lackadaisical attitude towards it? Six contractors in my office aren’t being renewed at the end of the month, and everyone is trying to be supportive as the job hunt. I’ve been in that situation, and I really sympathize.

          One younger woman, though, seems totally and openly unconcerned–it’s a blend of “the universe will provide” and “I can just get unemployment.” People have sent her contacts and links to jobs that are in her arena, and she just shrugs them off. She seems surprised that other contractors are so stressed and looking so hard. All of it has me cringing.

          She doesn’t have a lot of work experience, and she’s only okay at her job–should I try to tell her plainly that in her position I would be taking things more seriously?

    3. Sloan Kittering*

      I work with one of these, and it helps me to think how sad her life must be, that she needs to get all her validation out of being thought to be sooo busy at work. That helps me be a little compassionate. I would not want to be someone who didn’t enjoy vacation and my life outside of work, or needed that much emotional propping up.

      1. I am not blah, I am a hoot!*

        I understand what you mean and I agree. I also know that she does not have much of a social life outside of work. But the whole spiel about being a workaholic sounds so fake. It is like she looks down on the rest of us for having a better balanced life and hobbies and passions…

    4. Temperance*

      I agree with her that visiting family isn’t necessarily a vacation, but she otherwise sounds obnoxious.

    5. Bea*

      As a previously overworked manager who quit to become a barely 40hrs a week worth of work person, she’s pathetic to say the least.

      Do not engage. She’s attention seeking.

      I am a workaholic and part of that includes not complaining about it. She doesn’t take time off because she wouldn’t have an audience to whine at.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      Laugh and shrug? Truly busy people do not have time to discuss how busy they are.

      These “I’m so busy” folks are the opposite of the “I have too much to do” folks. The latter are the one’s who take 45 minutes explaining all they have to do…. that could have been finished in the 45 minutes they wasted complaining about it.

      You might consider, “Gee, sorry you are having a problem getting your work done. Maybe you should ask someone to help you as everyone else seems to be fine.”

  71. Mrs indecisive*

    I am feeling very torn about my current job and career.

    On the one hand – I work for two very intelligent and smart people, and I largely enjoy the work I do. My boss is great. I have grown a lot persoanlly in my 3 years at the company because of the high standard they set. But…

    One the other hand: I really struggle in one very important aspect of my work role – writing. I can spend hours, even days to try and get a certian piece of information into a good space, only to fail miserably. Once my supervisor reviews it, it’s never what she imagined, expected, or wanted and she ends up having to rewrite it. It’s a constant loop. This has severly crumbled all the confidence I have in my writing skills. I asked myeslf, why I can’t deliver, and I think it goes back to not understanding the information enough, (and that I am not very skilled at strategy and analysis) but I never have enough time to wrap my head around the information, because thigns have to move so fast, fast, fast. I believe that if it wasn’t for me being so excellent in other parts of my role, I would not have lasted in this company. Anyway, I have now reached a point, where any writing assignements give me so much anxiety, that I want out of it. And here is where I struggle…

    Should I first, try to share the challenges with my boss, and discuss the potential to reshape my role, so I can focus on what I am really good at, instead of constantly under-delivering on the writing? I am scared to open up for this, partly because we are a super small team (only 3 people) – so I don’t see how that would be possible. But I also know we are hiring for a new person to come on board now, so this might be a good time to have that type of talk. At the same time, I am scared that if I open this topic up, she might realize I am not happy, and will let me go (which would be disastreous. Can’t afford to be left without an income.

    Second, I feel like the standard is so high in my current job, that it leaves very litte room to maneuveur and take ownership of things. If something is not 100%, I am sure to hear it. It has lead to me constantly second-guessing my decisions, and it’s very draining. I have started to seriously consider switching career path, as I discovered something I am really good at in this role, and I don’t think I have the type of passion and committment to keep growing within my current field. That would demand that my wirting skills improve significantly – and i don’t belive I have what it takes. Sucks, because I used to love writing…. Considering that I have been 3 years in the same role, and there has been no advancement for me. I feel like I am stuck in the same place as when I entered this field. And I want to keep growing, not keep stomping in the same place.

    I woudd appreciate some other perspectives and thoguhts on this matter, beause I am so stuck in my head right now, not knowing what to do…

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      My goodness, if you’ve been working somewhere for three years and you’ve never been able to reach your bosses standards for writing, she should be either proactively coaching you on exactly what she needs, or assigning this task to someone else (I mean, unless your job is “staff writer” or something?). I can’t imagine having an employee continually “disappoint” me with a work product and then – just, having that be the status quo until next time. That seems like a real failure to manage on her part!

      1. Mrs indecisive*

        It’s not from a lack of trying on her part (nor mine). She tries to tell my how it’s not good enough, so I can do better and keep growing. But I just feel like I am not making any improvements! You just don’t elarn to be analytical and write strategy for clients in a day. But you’re right, given it’s been three years and I am not progressing – something feels really off. I dont’ want to be stuck in a role where i continually fail to deliver and where my efforts are not yielding the results we need. I feel like i am letting everyone down.

        1. grey*

          I don’t know if this will help or not; but I was put in charge of all internal communications from the IT department for one job precisely because I am a very good writer. However I always knew that no matter how perfect it was; management would want to make corrections. I grew to expect it (and had to learn to get out of that mindset at new job) but wouldn’t let it bother me. It was just a form of micromanaging (thankfully they didn’t micromanage very much, but when they did, it was in off the wall things).

        2. Close Bracket*

          So she tells you it’s not good enough. Does she tell you *why* it’s not good enough? Does she tell you what would be better? Are there patterns in there that you can recognize and apply?

          It’s possible that your writing is just fine but that she doesn’t happen to like it. I have had bosses who wanted me to use my judgement when what they really wanted was to read their minds.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      I think you have probably answered your own question, you don’t have the background to write on the topic. If I had to go to work every day and write instructions on how to lay out railroad ties and railroad track, I would be in serious and deep trouble. That is so far out of my wheelhouse they do not make measuring equipment large enough to measure the distance between my wheelhouse and crafting railroad track instructions. I don’t consider myself a writer but I am not afraid of writing, either. I would not take on the railroad track handbook nor would I take on the strategy and analysis.

      I have taken strategy and analysis courses and I will tell you I got it wrong most of the time. Like every subject, there are ideas that are currently popular. If a person is not in the field or not well versed in the field there is no way to know what the currently popular (read: Correct Idea) is. In a way you are screwed before you even started.
      If the boss wants a S and A person then the boss should hire a qualified person. For her to continuous beat you over something you have no background in, makes HER the inferior person NOT you. To your boss I say, “NO, NOT just anyone can write this stuff.” If that were the case we would have a lot of employed five year olds.

      Yeah, I am kind of sputtering here. I am ticked on your behalf. Now, it could be that I am misunderstanding something or misread something but in my mind your boss is pretty toxic. Good leaders do not put people where they will repeatedly fail and then kick them for that failure. They just don’t.

      Get to an employer who will see where your talents are and allow you to use those talents.

  72. Shay the Fae*

    I accidentally wore pants to the studio that were split in inch on the inseam heading toward the front rise, two and a half inches along the inseam down one leg, and five inches down the other.
    I asked the grad I’d been working with for the past two hours if he “noticed the hole in my pants” he said he didn’t. I felt like I was going to cry or throw up when I ended up noticing. Fortunately we had a break and I was able to run home and change. I knew I could mend the pants but I just threw them away. Now I’m going to need to go to the trouble of finding and buying another comfortable natural fiber pair… :(
    What’s made worse is because of the conditions inside the studio (extreme heat, lots of fire, lots of sweating) I can’t wear underpants or I get an infection.
    So, I don’t *think* anyone saw anything. And if someone did, and it was someone who knows me, I know they would have given my the heads up.
    I still just want to curl up and cry and not go back for the rest of the day.
    Do you have any embarrassing work stories you can share?

    1. Shay the Fae*

      I just found out that rayon doesn’t melt when caught on fire! That dramatically expands my options for pants.

      I recently bought three jeans that turned out to be 75% cotton 25% polyester. They fit me so well and I love everything about them. But I need to do a burn test to see how they handle flame. I really don’t want to do that. :(

      1. irene adler*

        Can’t you go to a fabric store and purchase a small quantity of material that is 75% cotton 25% polyester and do the burn test on that?

        1. Shay the Fae*

          Yes! That is a great idea! Thank you. Although getting to the fabric stores can be difficult…

      2. patch queen*

        Idea for a hidden spot you could snip for a burn test: inside the back pocket! Turn one pair inside out, stick your hand in the back pocket, and then pinch and snip off a small part of the fabric that covers your butt (but it itself covered by the pocket). Then you can put a patch over the hole, all without changing the look of the jeans at all.

    2. Laura H.*

      I’ve fallen flat on my face before a few times at work. That’s embarrassing to me.- Also had a bladder mishap one time. That was not fun.

      1. Shay the Fae*

        Ooof :( bladder mishaps are the worse. I had several as a late elementary schooler / early middle schooler do to health s***. I think I would absolutely cry if I went through that again as an adult. Thank you for sharing.

    3. Free Meerkats*

      Not me, but my favorite coworker of all time. Favorite as in; though we haven’t worked together for over 30 years, I’m still in regular contact with her, have been in two of her weddings, took her daughter to Vegas for her 21st birthday, etc.

      We were working in the field every day from an early 80s Chevy station wagon. One day she spent the whole day obviously uncomfortable, squirming and wriggling. At the end of the day, as she was walking away to the locker room to change for her bus ride, I noticed something. I called her back and let her know her whole ass was squeezed into the left side of her pants – the rental pants (we played in sewers, so they were mandatory and left at work every day) had the right side about 2 sizes smaller than the left side. And she hadn’t noticed when changing that morning. This was the first time I’d been behind her that day, but we’d been doing inspections at the places we regulate, so it was on display all day. For about a month, she really looked at all the pants before putting them on, and had me do regular checks for her.

      1. Shay the Fae*

        I can’t even imagine what that would look like. Like uni-boob? but one sided and with the butt? Sounds very uncomfortable for sure! (And yes, also embarrassing!)

    4. Middle School Teacher*

      I also had a hole in my pants last week! I didn’t notice until I got home and changed my clothes and saw it. It’s entire possible a bunch of teenager saw my inner thigh hanging out and didn’t say anything. Plus they were one of my favourite pairs :(

  73. Owlberta*

    A couple questions for hiring managers or others who have experience with interviewing/hiring staff:
    I just applied for a part-time position with a local nonprofit that I have tangentially but not directly supported (i.e., I have donated small items but never cash so I’m not in their donor database or anything like that).
    1. Should I mention that I have supported them?
    2. Should I drop off the small items that I have been collecting for them over the past couple months without knowing I would apply for a job? Anonymously or with my name?
    3. Should I attend an event they are having next week, which would be before my phone interview?
    I’m worried about showing genuine support for their cause but not being a sycophant. When I was a hiring manager for a nonprofit, I personally hated when people suddenly showed up to events or gave extra donations when they were seeking employment. Just wondering how other nonprofit hiring managers feel.

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      Hmm, if you were going to the volunteer event anyway, and if you’ve gone to other volunteer events, I wouldn’t not-go just because of this application. But there would be something a little weird to me about an applicant who has never volunteered before showing up – I’d assume they were trying to go around the hiring process and get “face time” with me, and I’d be uncomfortable. Anyone else want to disagree? Volunteering after you’ve been turned down for the job is really meaningful to me though. I’ll remember that person for the future.

      It’s good to say you’ve been donating/volunteering for the org for years if that’s true – that’d be good in a cover letter. I wouldn’t talk about the value of the cans you’re dropping off though.

      1. Anna Held*

        Agree. Nonprofits often ask in their interviews about your connection to their mission, work your contributions into an answer for that question.

  74. About to get an offer*

    I called HR yesterday and they informed me that I will be offered the job (yay!) and that they are working on putting it together and getting proper signatures and said I would get the actual offer Friday or Monday.

    Here’s my problem She called me again a few hours later pushing again wanting to know what I want for compensation. She asked me during the first part of the process and I brushed her off but figured I couldn’t this time. An insider told me the range for the level and said new hires come in at the middle. So I quoted the middle amount I was told.

    After I got off the phone I spoke with another coworker who showed me a different rate ($10,000 more!!) for the mid rate of the level.

    Am I screwed into the lower pay? Any ideas on what I can do?

    1. Alice*

      You didn’t have information about insurance details/401k etc when you gave your number, right? So you could use that for cover. Congrats on the offer :)

  75. Katy Kat*

    How do you not get down on yourself while job hunting? I was laid off about 3 weeks ago. I’m it a good place where I don’t have to find a job right away but I can’t stay unemployed long term. What I have done in the past 3 weeks:
    Applied for unemployment
    Talked to a career counselor, got help with my Resume
    Updated my Linkedin profile and created profiles, uploaded resume to 9 different local and national job boards
    Bought and read How to Get a Job
    Applied to 12 jobs so far, researched each job and position before applying and wrote a custom cover letter for each
    Had to take my youngest out of daycare to save money so I have been spending lots of time with him, long walks with him and the dog, yoga, reading, watching TV, purging and cleaning the each room of the house, cross stitch, yoga, baking, trying new recipes for dinner…
    I feel like I’m working hard and I know it’s only been 3 weeks but it feels like months and I know it will take time but I have already received rejections from half the jobs I have applied to based only on my resume/cover letter. No phone screen, no interview. It feels like a lot longer than 3 weeks. I struggle with anxiety and had to quit therapy while I’m unemployed, even with insurance my copays are too high. I know I can’t take the rejection personally but each email has felt like a punch in the gut.
    I don’t really know what I’m looking for just need to vent.

    1. Tara S.*

      The last time I was job searching without current employment, it felt like I was killing myself applying to things for a month with NO results. I applied to literally over 100 jobs (I had a spreadsheet, although in hindsight this “apply to everything you see” approach wasn’t the best ), but it felt like there was nothing nothing nothing, then suddenly near the end of month 2, there were 2 phone screens; then the next week an interview and more phone screens; then by month 3 lots of call backs. I got a job by the end of month 3.

      I think hiring just takes longer most of the time than we want it to. It feels like it’s taking FOREVER on the outside, but it’s pretty normal from the company’s perspective. Best of luck with your search, try to be diligent and patient as you can afford to be.

    2. Aurélia*

      What industry/geographical area are you in? Women in Technology in the DC area frequently has ready-to-work job fairs that could be something to check out and at a minimum do some networking.
      Lots of kudos for staying busy. May be simple, but I would encourage you to give yourself the night of and take a long hot bath/shower, have a relaxing beverage, watch a movie you love, and get a good nights sleep. That combination usually helps me feel more glass-half-full the next morning, especially combined with good coffee and these scrambled eggs with feta cheese that my boyfriend makes.

    3. OtterB*

      Sympathies. A friend just had a similar situation. After several weeks of feeling like nothing was happening, then wondering if she was going to have to take a short-term contract at less money than she had previously made, things started to stir and then she got a suitable offer. It sounds like you are doing everything right. Hope it doesn’t take too much longer.

    4. Marley*

      First of all, congratulations on everything you have accomplished so far. That’s a ton for the first three weeks!

      When I was in a similar position, I made a list of house related tasks I’d been putting off. It sounds like you’re doing similar with the cleaning and purging, but sitting down and making a list and crossing it off is awfully satisfying.

      And ditto for fun things with your kids. Sit down with them and ask for ideas of fun things they want to do. Think of some things you want to do with them too. Post it prominently and start doing.

      It’s hard, but you’re already well on your way.

  76. rosenstock*

    this is a hypothetical as i am not currently seeking a new position, but when applying at a nonprofit, would it be appropriate to briefly mention (in an interview? in the cover letter?) that my interest in this specific organization was started when i was shown a documentary about it in school ~10 years ago, and i’ve been following the org ever since? like, just 1-2 sentences about that, and then done. and that is truthful btw

    1. rosenstock*

      by “done” i mean i wouldn’t want to make a big deal or a big part of my application that i’ve wanted to work specifically for Organization X for 10 years, but to mention it briefly because it’s true and hopefully shows i’m serious about it? idk

      1. Bibliovore*

        I think as an aside that it is a good idea. It shows a deeper commitment than just, “I love the work that you do”
        Did the documentary have one moment that informed/planted a seed for your academic or work life choices, perhaps note that.

      1. fromscratch*

        Agree. I would include this in the opening of your cover letter. Something like, “I am interested in this role because I’ve closely followed the organization’s work for the last 10 years and feel strongly about x, y, z” and fill in some detail of what they do that you care about.

        2. Sloan Kittering*

          I like the suggestion to say something really specific from the movie that struck you, if possible. I’ve worked at “rock star” orgs and they get a lot of groupie type applicants who have just “always wanted to work for Greenpeace” or whatever – but most hiring managers are very specific about the job roles they need, they don’t want someone who who thinks their love for the org will overcome the tedium of data entry. Better someone who doesn’t know the org well but looooves data entry. Just wanted to flag that perspective for you as you craft your letter. (Reminds me of an interview with a Nevada Madam who said “my first rule of hiring girls for the brothel is, anybody who mentions the movie Pretty Woman is out.”)

          1. rosenstock*

            yes! that’s what i want to avoid – i think it helps that i would be applying for the exact same job title & duties that i have now, except in a nonprofit instead of private corp. thank you!

            1. OtterB*

              I would frame it that you want to take the skills and experience you’ve acquired in your work at X company and apply them to Y organization, whose mission has appealed to you every since you first saw them in a documentary, etc., etc.

    3. De Minimis*

      My last job was in a non-profit and I helped with recruitment. We always wanted to see something in the cover letter that showed why the candidate had an interest in the work of the organization, and something like what you describe would have been perfect.

  77. Anonymoussaka*

    Does any of you lovely readers have any experience with taking a year off, sort of a gap year, mid-career? I’ve been at my current company for a decade and I’m planning, secretly, to take a year off when I hit 40 in a year or so. I love the company and the role but realized that in my years of working the only breaks in employment I’ve had were short (thankfully!) as in less than 6 months and stressful with the focus on the next gig. So I’m planning the next break between jobs to intentionally be longer and time I can use to focus on other interests and travel. Have you done something like this? What was your experience with it, particularly re-entry from a long break?

    1. just me*

      Unfortunately it might be difficult to gain new employment do to negative biases about gaps and your age. Both reasons are wrong/illegal – but I did want to worn you, because it will happen. It happened to me.

      I’d suggest at least do some sort of entrepreneurship or volunteer work that you can put on the resume for that year…might help a little

      2. Anonymoussaka*

        Good idea on the side work or volunteering – it is something I’ve considered as my travel plans are more focused on 2 month or long stints in a place. And I have skills that could translate to independent consulting.

    2. DivineMissL*

      I worked for 20 years, took off 3 years to be a stay-at-home mom with my baby, and then went back to work when he was 2 1/2 (15 years ago). I didn’t have too much trouble getting a job after the break; I just explained that I had been a SAHM and nobody questioned it. But at that time, the employers were looking at my last salary from 3 years earlier as a guideline, so my re-starting salary was harder (but not impossible) to negotiate. I did have to field some questions about “keeping my skills up to date” during the gap, but it seemed to be no trouble as I had a “legitimate” reason for being out of the work force – you might want to consider how you will spin your time off so that employers will accept it as reasonable. My only other minor consideration was that not working for 3 years is less income to include in calculating my eventual Social Security benefits.

    3. LQ*

      I haven’t, but last time my union did a survey and asked about what benefits we wanted most I put “sabbatical leave” as my top option. I’d really like to be able to take some time. And I’d be willing to wait for 10 years or whatever at an employer to get a chance to have a shot at that.

    4. The New Wanderer*

      I have been on an unintended year-long sabbatical (aka unemployment) for the past, well, year. Since I usually frame this time off as intentional (the first few months were! The last bit just happened), I just started taking an online course to show my commitment to keeping my skills up to date/improving on something. I believe the challenges I’ve had in getting a new job aren’t because of this break, more that I have a niche skill set. I just met with a recruiter/headhunter who didn’t even ask me about the year+ off, as he doesn’t seem to think it will deter a company looking for those skills. We’ll see how that plays out!

    5. Teapot Archivist*

      I did this when I hit 40 – took a year off to volunteer overseas and travel. I got a senior-level job immediately I returned, which was a pleasant surprise, as I’d planned for a few months of job hunting. I was amazed at how much I had forgotten about my job in 12 months – I would have struggled to do CV and interviews if I hadn’t regularly documented my successes when I had been in full time employment. That meant that I could look over my notes and say ‘okay, I’d forgotten I was nominated for that award, or that I had that experience of coaching staff’.
      The interviewers didn’t mention my year out at all, but I don’t think it hurt that I’d been working for a charity overseas that was in the same space as my current role.

    6. Ender*

      I took 2.5 years off to have my kids. No problems coming back. I think with modern legislation you don’t needn’t to give a reason just say “I took time off for personal reasons” and no one need know whether it was for travelling or having a family or looking after elderly parents or whatever. It’s no one business.

    7. Cedrus Libani*

      I did that, not entirely by intention. I had finished my PhD, and was just horribly burned out, so I put off job hunting until the thought didn’t make me want to hide under the bed. Which took almost a year. Fortunately, I’d worked before starting the PhD, and had enough savings to make that possible.

      Re-entry was easier than I thought it would be. By the time a year had passed, I was rested and genuinely happy about having stuff to do and places to be, and I got right back in the groove.

      I do wish I’d done more with the time off. I did some traveling and some re-training, but I don’t know if I had a year’s worth of experiences. It’s amazing how time flies if you don’t have a plan. If I’d gone into it knowing that I was going to take a year off and planned accordingly, this might have been mitigated.

  78. Sarah*

    Background – I have 3 employees who all do the same thing. I need one of them to focus their attention full time on a special on-going project. To free up her time, I am taking her current work and re-distributing to the other 2. To accommodate this, I am moving some work they currently do to another team (which makes more sense to sit with this team anyway). My predication of the reactions to this switch – one will be totally fine with this change, the other will complain that she has too much work (I used to do this work before I became the director, its not); and as for the 3rd (the one who will now work on the special project) I have no idea how she will feel.

    So my question, how should I communicate this change?

    Initially I was planning to meet with them all separately and then as a group. My concern is getting to all 3 of them before they start talking internally, and it feels dramatic that I need to meet individually (we all sit in a fairly contained area – it would be obvious that I was calling them one by one to my office).

    The other option would be to meet as a group first to go over overall plan and then meet individually to discuss specifics. But I can’t decide if finding out this kind of change would bother some in a group setting.

    Thoughts?

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      I’d meet with #3 first, since her job is changing the most, and then meet with #1 and #2 together, since they’re undergoing the same change and will be getting the same information.

      1. Sloan Kittering*

        Yeah, it sounds like you’re certain who you want to do what, but ideally it would be nice to check in with the person who’s job is about to change a lot and ask them openly what they’d prefer. Maybe you can accommodate some parts of it. I say this as the “reliable” team member who more than once was assigned the most boring, time consuming project because my boss didn’t trust the other two to handle it – my job satisfaction was tanked.

    2. Kathenus*

      Not sure if this would work in your situation, but can you let them be part of how the work gets reallocated? For example, #3 is taking on the new project, so 100% of her current work needs to be reassigned. #’s 1&2 each have 100% of work on their plates. So instead of deciding what part of their existing work gets switched to a new team, can they offer suggestions on what they keep and what they give away? Give them the goal, and see if they have ideas on how to achieve it versus you deciding it in advance? I understand it may not work in your situation, but I’ve learned through past mistakes in my own management actions about making decisions unilaterally that would have gone over much better with advance collaboration before finalizing them.

      1. Sloan Kittering*

        +1 even if you do actually have a decision and are pretty sure that’s what you’re going to do, just the willingness to have the conversation and listen goes a long way IMO.

      2. Free Meerkats*

        Assuming I get my retired manager’s job once the Mayor’s consultant is finished deciding what we are going to do with open positions, I’m going to be doing this with the people who will be reporting to me.

        Here’s how it is currently:
        Open Manager position.
        Three inspectors, all on the same level. I’m acting as Technical Lead with the Lab Manager doing the management stuff.
        Two of us (Me and B) regulate our industries, we’ve pretty much had the same accounts for at least 5 years.
        The third (new guy, A) is doing a special project related to new Federal regs. This will wrap up soon.

        If I get the Program Manager position, I will be reorganizing a bit, it will look like:
        Two inspectors doing the compliance monitoring, enforcement, and inspections of our industries.
        A new technician doing most or all of the field work – industrial sampling, internal plant and other field sampling, equipment maintenance, etc.

        I don’t believe the new guy (A) has the experience needed to regulate some of the industries I do, so the more experienced one (B) will be getting those. So some of mine, and some of B’s will be going to A. I plan on asking B which ones he’s like to keep and which ones of mine he’d like and asking A if there are any he’d particularly like to have. But I’m still going to make the final decision. And I know that there are a few that B won’t get to keep, even if he wants them – for reasons; and some of mine he’s going to get, even if he doesn’t especially want them.

        But they are both going to have input, and I’ll listen to them before making the final decisions.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      You can tell the person who complains to wait and see how it plays out in real life. Tell her to come to you as the problems come up, tell her not to wait.

      My thinking here is that no matter how much you tell her she will be fine, she will not be consoled. So instead of trying to console her tell her you want her to touch base with you regularly so the two of you can identify problem areas and fix them.

      What this does is it puts the ball in her court. She has to be on the lookout for problem areas and alert you. You can even go as far as saying, “Do not complain to your cohorts, come to me directly and let’s deal.”

      I have done this with people and it works. People feel they have been heard for one thing. And they have an action plan for when a problem comes up, as they “know” a problem will come up. Here’s the kicker, if and when she does come to you with a problem, address it in a serious tone by giving her actionable steps to follow.
      If you handle it this way, you should find things are calming down. Unless of course you have a whiner, then you need to handle the whining separately by talking about professional behaviors.

  79. Anon for this*

    I’m beginning to plan to leave my job and transition into the for-profit side, primarily due to salary reasons.

    Instead of my usual annual conference, I want to take a training course. It can be justified using the work I do but I would not be able to get the type of job I am looking for without it. If I were lucky enough to be hired without the training, I would be promptly sent off to take it.

    I want to leave my job on good terms. How do I handle this situation graciously? How much time should I ideally leave between the training and resigning?

    1. Wishing You Well*

      Take the training course and job search when you’re ready. Your job search might take awhile, who knows? When a job offer pops up, you can say it popped up unexpectedly, no matter how hard you were looking because job offers aren’t under your direct control. Do everything you can to leave on good terms but you are expected to look after your own best interests. Do your best for your company without compromising your future.
      Best of Luck!

  80. Bibliovore*

    I just want to check in and do a brag. I have been working on a huge project since 2014 that will launch in Feb. 2019. I am the only specialist in my field in my academic department and therefore when something totally cool happens that I MADE happen, and I share there is very little excitement and a meh response like, “that’s nice” ” that probably makes you very happy”
    So to the AAM community.
    Just so you know.
    Today, I rock!

    4. KAG*

      And you rock today as well! And you will tomorrow, too!!! And you will still be proud and will have bragging rights years later! Congrats. That’s the world’s greatest feeling.

  81. Missing Link*

    I applied to a position last week. I saw the posting on my lunch break and it closed that day (only up for three days). I hurriedly sent of my resume. I usually copy the posting out for reference later on but didn’t have time. When I went back later, it had been taken down.

    Of course this is the job that calls me for an interview. I don’t remember the position title, only that the requirements seemed similar to what I already do. This recollection is vague with my rushed state.

    Any way to draw out more information from the recruiter prior to the interview without being ‘now what was this job again?’

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      Ugh, I have so, so done this. When I was applying for a lot of stuff (like a least one app per day) I occasionally forgot to make a copy of the position description and just saved the link, which was inevitably taken down by the time I got called for a phone screen. Literally did not remember a lot about the job. One time I tried to fudge it, but on reflection I think it might have been better to just calmly request a copy of the position description before the interview. Yes this looks bad, but me not knowing what I was talking about looked worse. (I would also try to find the position posting on old sites or the wayback machine, never worked for me but worth a try).

      1. Seriously?*

        I agree. Asking for the position description in advance is much better than showing up not knowing it.

        1. Seriously?*

          Another option is to try to search for postings from the company on sites that compile job postings. Sometimes they stay on those sites after closing.

    2. Cousin Itt*

      IA with Sloan, just ask them if they can send you a copy to help you prepare as it’s no longer on their website.

    3. BRR*

      I would try searching and see if there’s an old posting of it somewhere. If it’s been taken down you can often times access the cached page on the search results listing.

    4. MissGirl*

      Thanks all. I did check Indeed and LinkedIn a few days ago but couldn’t find it (didn’t help not recalling the exact position title). I reached out to recruiter and he sent it over. Hopefully they don’t hold it against me. If they do, oh well.

    5. Chaordic One*

      I would certainly ask the recruiter for more information. I would think it perfectly acceptable to tell the recruiter that you’d applied for several different jobs with various employers and need a refresher of the job with them. Most recruiters should be understanding about such things and it shouldn’t be a big deal. If it is a big deal, then that’s a red flag about the recruiter.

  82. fromscratch*

    LOL, this week. I was fired from the job I’ve been trying to leave. The reason given? That I didn’t “believe in the mission enough.” I applied for a job at the CTO’s best friend’s company (didn’t know that) and apparently they shared that information. I had been working 12 hour days and several hours every weekend and was denied the raise I was promised before I started working there, which is why I’d been looking elsewhere. Boss even told me as I was being fired that it was the wrong decision for the company, but personal feelings were more important than logic.
    Thankfully I was able to pick up a freelance project and have been interviewing quite a bit, but it was still a shock.

  83. LizB*

    Anyone else having their work week made slightly more aggravating by Office365 outages, or is that just my region? I can get onto sharepoint (where all my work is stored) about 80% of the time, but of course the 20% of the time I can’t log in is the 20% of the time I REALLY NEED something urgently. Technology: blessing and curse.

    1. KatieKate*

      Oh god I HATE 365! We switched over last year and it’s been nothing but aggravating, even when it does work.

    2. MechanicalPencil*

      Microsoft had some outages in the South Central US, so that may be some of your problem. On Tuesday, none of my team could use a Very Important Tool because of it, so they were just twiddling their thumbs. Supposedly, it’s all back up and running, but…this is why you don’t put all your eggs in one regional basket, Microsoft.

      1. LizB*

        Yeah, our IT is sending out messages saying everything should be resolved… but I haven’t been able to get to any of my files for the past 20 minutes, so, not as resolved as all that I guess.

    3. The Ginger Ginger*

      Ah yes. The lightning strikes? So ridiculous. All of our internal tools are web-based and hosted on azure servers, so we’ve been having a REALLY FUN WEEK.

      Like…isn’t this what the cloud is FOR??????

    4. LQ*

      YUP! And it made me so glad that we’d pushed to have our SharePoint on-prem rather than cloud. It really created some issues for some folks who had moved to 365. We sailed along mostly unimpacted. (Except my darn email. The only upside, no one sent me any during that time either.)

  84. Flower*

    Super simple question – business casual wear (for a conference that lists business casual as dress code). I lack it and (need it for next week and) I’m not really sure what qualifies. What is and isn’t women’s business casual clothing – especially shoes???? Shoes are where I’m least sure.

    2. AnnaInBrussels*

      I’m based in Europe but I’m just back from a two-day ‘business casual’ conference and here’s what I wore: Black flowery dress with black jacket and flat loafer-type shoes; smart black jeans with pink top, black jacket and loafers; more dressed up dress with black wedge shoes for conference dinner. Hope that helps!

    3. CheeryO*

      Business casual can really run the gamut. For a conference, you probably can’t go wrong with a pair of dress pants, a blouse and blazer or cardigan, and flats. I’m sure you could also get away with sandals if they’re on the dressy side.

      1. CheeryO*

        Oh, and of course dresses! That might actually be the cheapest way to go if you check someplace like Marshall’s or TJ Maxx. Something like a basic sheath or A-line dress in a neutral color is a very safe choice, again with a blazer or cardigan if you think it might be cold.

    4. Tara S.*

      Closed-toe flats are pretty safe business casual. Depending on how often you need to wear them, you can usually get some dead cheap ones at Payless/Target/Walmart (they won’t hold up long-term most likely, but should get through a conference). Bring bandaids because wearing new shoes at a conference inevitably leads to blisters.

      Non-jean pants with a collared shirt/clean shirt with cardigan will work, or conservative (at/below the knee) dress with cardigan are good choices. Blazer certainly acceptable, but not required. Do try and bring some kind of covering, hotels/conference venues have a habit of being incredibly cold.

      Have fun!

    5. Crylo Ren*

      For shoes, I’d go with nicer flats – when I say nicer flats I’m envisioning pointed-toe, with details (subtle gold buckle, very slight block heel, subdued trim, basic ankle strap, etc) that makes them look a bit higher-end than your typical “scrunchy” round-toe ballet flat. Stick to neutral colors like black, brown, navy, gray etc.

    6. Daughter of Ada and Grace*

      I’m going to a conference with the same dress code at the end of the month, and I’m very fond of Mary Jane style flats from Clarks. The first year I attended this particular conference, I bought the shoes two weeks before the event, then wore them every day to get them broken in. (I’ve replaced those shoes a couple of times since then, but always stuck with the Clarks.)

      Since it looks like you don’t have 2 weeks to break in new shoes, I recommend Moleskine (can go on before you get blisters, if there’s a place you regularly blister) and blister cushions (much more effective for me than band-aids when I’ve got a blister). Both can be found in the foot-care section of the pharmacy, although blister cushions may be harder to find – I’ve had good luck at Walgreen’s.

      For the rest of the outfit, I go with a pair of dark slacks, a solid color shirt (a polo shirt or a button-down shirt will always be appropriate – I will sometimes go more casual with a solid color T-shirt), a cardigan (conference center A/C means layers are your friends), and a scarf. I only bring one cardigan and one scarf for a 3-day conference, so I make sure to pick the rest of my clothes so the cardigan and scarf will coordinate with all of them.

    8. epi*

      Different industries have different ideas of what “business casual” is. If this conference has ever run before, you should be able to find photos from previous years to get an idea of what is normal to wear there.

      For shoes, in my experience anything comfortable that looks OK with your outfit is fine. Everyone knows you will end up walking a lot at a conference, and it’s not the time to gamble on shoes you aren’t 100% sure will feel great all day. IME even if people think your shoes look a little on the casual side, they know why and no one cares if you are overall dressed appropriately.

    10. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

      Probably anything that is plain black will do in any case. Especially if you are wearing long pants and your shoes don’t really show much you could even get away with non-flashy athletic shoes. If anyone asks you are prone to sore feet and wanted to be comfortable standing around and walking all day.

      (Obviously ymmv but this would be fine and probably go unnoticed in any professional event I’ve ever been to).

  85. Anonymous For This Comment*

    Over the weekend I had to take my kid brother (who lives with me) to the ER and he was eventually admitted to the hospital as an inpatient. He’s been there for a few days now and naturally, I’m having some trouble coping. I took a sick day yesterday and very much wanted to take another one today because it’s been tough to focus on work while there’s so much else I’m worried about. It’s been especially tough because my schedule has been work, hospital for visiting hours, home for a quick dinner and bed. The visit makes me anxious and I go to bed stressed and the pattern begins again.

    Luckily, I did pull it together to come in today, and I don’t think anyone is concerned about me at work. But I’m considering taking a few PTO days next week so that I’m not just sitting at my desk failing to be productive. It wouldn’t be particularly odd to take PTO, but I did recently have a couple of days off and I just took a sick day…is there any need to explain to my boss why I’m out?

    And if anyone has tips on coping day-to-day and focusing on work while a family member is an inpatient…I’m all ears.

    1. Seriously?*

      I think you should tell your boss. It avoids giving the appearance of taking too much time off in a row and should also encourage them not to try to contact you on those days.

      1. Tara S.*

        ^ It’s not strictly required, but it helps people cut you some slack. I told my boss when my brother was in a bad car accident (he’s totally fine now, but we didn’t know for sure at first), and it wasn’t an extensive thing, just context for why I might look out of it or end up taking a day off. Best wishes for your brother’s quick recovery.

    2. The Ginger Ginger*

      Yeah, assuming your boss is a reasonable person, I’d disclose the high level jist of it. “My younger brother is hospitalized at the moment, and I need to use PTO to be available to him and his doctors since I am his next of kin”. Or something like that. Is he a minor living with you in a guardian capacity? That would be even MORE reason to get time off, and if that’s the case I’d say that you’re his guardian and need to be at the hospital. That should get you the same leeway as a parent and their child IMO.

      Either way, good luck. Sending positive vibes to you and your brother.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Tell your boss. Perhaps you can do something where you leave two hours early each day or whatever. Or maybe you can take a day off just to sleep.

      Next, enlist someone to help you in some manner. Ideally find someone who would go check on your brother every other day or every couple days to give you a break. If you do not have that trustworthy, close friend to help in that manner see where else you can find help. Perhaps you could ride share to work. Perhaps a friend would help with things around your house or get your groceries for you.

      Ask your brother if you could visit every other day and call him on the days in between. Maybe phones are not doable for him, if so scratch this idea.

      Ask your boss for suggestions about time off, ask what others have done in the past.

  86. Alice*

    I have a colleague who regularly asks for meetings to brainstorm what her team could do to better support my customers. Good, right?
    The thing is, I’ve given her a list of requested improvements many times. It doesn’t vary — offer more hours of teapot decorating (we’ve gone from 16 per week down to 4), get someone who specializes in decorating teapots in a blue-and-white pattern, and tell us in advance if a planned tea parties gets canceled. There’s not much to brainstorm about — this is what my customers want.
    How do I get out of the useless brainstorming meeting? How do I get her to make these improvements instead of talking about them? How do I suppress or channel my frustration?

    1. JoAnna*

      Maybe at the meetings, instead of repeating the same suggestions, mention that your previous suggestions are the only ones you have and that you should use the meeting time to discuss how best to implement them.

    2. Seriously?*

      Is this someone above you or a peer? If they are a peer you should be able to say that you have already given them your feedback and it hasn’t changed so you don’t really see a benefit in attending unless she wants to talk about how to implement those changes.

      1. The Ginger Ginger*

        ^This. You can even create a little outline and attach it to your response. Every. Time. a new invite comes out.

          1. The Ginger Ginger*

            Boy, it would feel good though. Almost as good as just re-forwarding your previous response with “See below” as the only text in the body.

    3. BRR*

      I would thank her for checking with you blah blah blah and say that what you covered is your highest priority and you don’t want to keep adding to her plate so she can focus on those things.

    4. Rey*

      Have you already had a direct conversation with her that says, “I appreciate you reaching out to brainstorm about my customers’ needs. However, I’m concerned because the improvements I’ve told you before haven’t been addressed. Until they are addressed, I don’t have the bandwidth to attend brainstorming meetings.” Or, is there some reason that she knows and you don’t that explains why the improvements you’ve already asked for haven’t been applied? In terms of making the improvements, have the improvements been approved by the necessary manager and she just doesn’t move on them? I would set up a formal follow-up process (weekly email?) so that everything is documented (that you kept following up and she kept delaying) and as appropriate at your organization, get her manager and/or your manager involved (i.e., “this project was approved but its been delayed indefinitely and my team needs this completed to accomplish (important organizational metric). Without it, we will continue to (consequence to important organizational metric).”

    5. ..Kat..*

      When she sends you a meeting notice, reply that your recommendations are exactly the same as at the last few meetings, therefore you don’t need to attend.

  87. JoAnna*

    I applied for a job as a “Document Specialist” for a software company last month. I was asked to do a phone interview, which I did. The interviewer emailed the next day and asked me to do a 5 minute presentation about a topic I was passionate about using the Soapbox tool. I did that too. Then she emailed me and asked me to do two personality assessments. I did those too. Then silence for a few weeks due to a conference they were doing. I sent a follow-up email earlier this week, and in her reply my contact said they were still catching up after the conference and proceeded to ask me a few questions.

    “Have you had a chance to look into [software] as a platform much? What part of [software] is most interesting to you?

    Does the idea of digging into the unexplored areas of [software] and completely learning the product sound exciting?

    What part of the job, as you understand it, would you enjoy most?”

    These are all questions she asked me at the phone interview! Am I out of line to be annoyed by this? Either bring me in for an interview or don’t, but don’t make me keep wasting my time with this stuff.

    2. AnonandAnon*

      She probably did not take great notes, and if others are also applying did not remember what you said. It’s always a good idea to reiterate in an email what was discussed during a phone interview, it helps the interviewer remember you and they have your information at their fingertips. But, yes, it is annoying to be asked the same questions again, maybe this time you could expound on them a bit to make yourself stand out?

  88. Lalaroo*

    Does anyone have any ideas on how to have a personal supply of filtered water at the office? I work at a state agency and we don’t have members of the public coming in to our office, so we don’t have any water coolers.

    I’ve considered bringing in a Brita pitcher, but I’m worried that my coworkers will use it and I’ll end up having to buy filters all the time. I’ve considered bringing a big jug from home everyday, but I have to walk about two blocks from the parking lot to the building and I don’t want to carry something heavy. We recently started hotdesking, so I can’t keep a flat of bottled water at my desk, and my locker is too small. I’ve considered a filtered water bottle, but apparently you have to exert pressure on the water to get it out. Because I want to use my stainless steel hydration-tracking bottle, switching to drinking out of a different bottle isn’t a solution.

    Maybe there isn’t a good solution, but I thought I’d throw it out there and see if anyone has any ideas! Maybe keeping a small Brita pitcher in a bag or container in the fridge? Would that make me look insane if a coworker walked in while I was using it?

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      Do people respect “my food, don’t eat it” at your office? If so, I think a Brita pitcher with your name on it would probably work.

    2. stitchinthyme*

      I’d just get a big insulated water bottle or two and bring water from home in it. The ones I have will keep water cold all day.

    3. Rosemary7391*

      Why is it that you want filtered water? If it’s just the taste, could you manage by bringing however much water you’re comfortable carrying and then drinking flavoured tap water for the rest? I keep a tiny squeezy of squash in my desk drawer for this, and I’ve also seen people use lemon/lime juice.

      1. Anonymous who loves clean water*

        Tap water is typically bad for health. Lots of heavy metals, carcinogens, and chemicals, not to mention rust or particles from old pipes.

        1. Rosemary7391*

          Huh?

          Maybe this is another UK/US thing. UK water is tested pretty extensively for safety across the distribution network (we have a small enough infrastructure to make that possible). You might get a bit more chalk than you bargain for down south (limescale is a real problem), but up north it usually tastes fine, as much as water tastes of anything.

          1. AeroEngineer*

            Yea, this is definitely a UK/US thing. There are very many places in the US where I would not drink the tap water, thinking about it, I only drink tap water at home, and we have a home filter. UK and Western Europe in general, I am usually ok with drinking the water from the tap unless it is super chalky (southern germany for example).

          2. Not a Mere Device*

            This varies hugely from place to place around the U.S. I grew up in New York City, which (justly) boasts of the quality of the drinking water. I now live in a part of Massachusetts where the government mails out reports on the levels of various contaminants in the tap water, with comparisons to established/defined safe levels (they’re all within spec), and the building I live in is new enough that I know we don’t have lead pipes. Such information is available in a lot of places, but they don’t always send it out automatically.

            In answer to Lalaroo’s question, you’ll probably be okay if it is in fact a small pitcher, so you aren’t using an unfair amount of space.

        2. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

          I think this is… vastly overstating the situation.

          Tap water is safe nearly everywhere in the U.S.

          (That being said, I’m much less confident saying that than I was five years ago. But while Flint has taught us that we can’t trust always trust our government to provide us with safe water. :/)

          1. Wishing You Well*

            Well…safe for most people, not all. My city tap water is full of bacteria, yet it meets government standards. The testing people said the water would smell and have an oily look before it would fail their tests.
            I filter my tap water.

          2. nonegiven*

            The place I get my tap water mails out an EPA note with the bill regularly that talks about levels of contamination and to consult a doctor about if it’s safe for you to drink. I’ve tried the Brita but it still tastes and smells bad so I only drink bottled. I know it’s just tap water from somewhere else but at least it’s tap water that tastes better.

        3. I'm A Little Teapot*

          While there are certainly areas where tap water isn’t safe to drink or is safe but unpleasant, it is by no means universal. If where you live the water is unsafe, that is unfortunate and it should be improved, but not everyone does.

      1. blink14*

        YES! Was just going to post this. I’m at a large university, but each department pays for it’s own water filter/cooler system, and we’ve gone from being combined with a very large department with one, to sharing space with a smaller department who doesn’t have a filter system (and our department is too small to consider it a good expense).

        I keep a Nalgene bottle in the fridge, filling it with tap water, and transferring the cold water to my Bobble bottle. I usually refill the fridge bottle twice a day, so that I have cold water during the day and the next morning. For me, it’s more about having cold water, and I already had a Bobble bottle on hand, but the filtered aspect is a plus.

    5. Anonymous who loves clean water*

      I bring water everywhere. My friends do too.
      A friend of mine has 3-4 large reusable stainless steel bottles (those tall ones with the clasping lids) that she fills up with water and brings with her to work in a backpack. Along with her food. I would pitch the possibility of filtered water jugs in the office. They have companies that come by and refill your water jug supply every couple of weeks.

      I would choose those options before I brought a Brita water filter and stashed it in my bag. Or even bring a gallon to work and leave it by your desk. They have refillable filtered water systems at some grocery stores now, though I’m not sure where you’re located. I can fill a jug for 88 cents at mine.

  89. Jersey Girl*

    Urgh, feeling so angry and bitter with work at the moment. Generally I love my job but I’ve spent the past nine months trying to have a conversation with my boss about a raise. My boss has kept dodging it, by repeatedly asking to leave it a few weeks until budgetary issues are clearer and then saying he needs HR to do a survey of salaries paid for similar roles locally. Survey has apparently now been done and conversation was supposed to happen today but boss has just cancelled our meeting and gone on holiday for two weeks. So frustrated I’m going to start job hunting this weekend!

    1. Kathenus*

      Sounds like your plan to begin looking is a good one. Your boss is giving you the answer by ducking you. If she got the survey and was planning to give you the raise you’re asking for I’m guessing she would have found a way to tell you. Her silence is kind of deafening, and paired with making you chase a meeting for nine months, the message seems unfortunately clear. I’m sorry, that’s got to be so frustrating. Job hunting doesn’t commit you to leaving, so taking control and starting to look this weekend, for your own peace of mind, sounds like a great idea. Best of luck.

      1. Jersey Girl*

        Thanks for replying. I know you’re right – I just haven’t wanted to hear it! On the upside, I’ve found three jobs online today that look like they could be a fit :)

  90. LQ*

    For people who do some combo of in person/remote meetings, how much of the meeting time is usually dedicated to getting the …whatever working so that everyone is on board? And if you were at your org through a transition to getting “good” at it how long did it take?

    A group of people who I work with a lot get to wfh 2-3 days a week, and so at nearly every meeting we have at least a few people working from home or not around. We have what should be “good” technology tools for this, but there’s always about 10-15 minutes at the start of every meeting where it’s messing with the tech and getting set up and it’s really really getting under my skin. Partly I’m sure because I can’t work from home, but mostly because those 15 minutes really add up over the week!

    1. MechanicalPencil*

      My department is maybe 60/40 split between in office and remote. We all use the same tech, so we’re all expected to be up and running basically from the start time. The only thing that might be an issue is the screen share — getting the tech to catch up and present and ensure that the correct monitor is presenting. Is it possible for someone with some authority to lay down some ground rules on preparedness?

      1. LQ*

        I’m not sure there is. The people with actual authority over this group of staff has zero interest in managing at all so that’s a big issue. There is a sub-group that I might be able to get to though that could have a preparedness conversation and enforce it. It wouldn’t solve all the meetings, but it might set and example and help people get on top of it.

    2. raktajino*

      Usually everyone’s on the phone but screenshare takes a few minutes. Before we switched to a new system, we’d routinely spend at least 10 minutes trying to get into the right meeting–recurring meetings or rescheduled meetings would often end up with an “incorrect” number. Now the worst thing that happens is you have to schedule an instant meeting if you’ve rescheduled too many times.

      1. LQ*

        I think that our system has been around long enough that we should have it down but maybe we don’t really have a great one, that’s something I can bring up.

    3. The Ginger Ginger*

      Are you at all in control of the meeting in a way where you could get the online meeting/conference room up and running 10 minutes before go time? Let everyone know to get logged and tech working in prior to the start.

      This doesn’t work for back to back meetings or with all software, but maybe?

      1. LQ*

        No, the only control I have is I could technically say these meetings are critical for everyone to be there in person, but then I’m essentially taking away the wfh for these people (which I both don’t want to do, and wouldn’t help). I’m generally the only person in these meetings who is in back to back meetings/coming from another meeting, the rest of the people almost never are. I have started to leave when the meeting time is over to sort of enforce the time limit on the other side.

    4. BRR*

      It takes me so much time. It’s like nothing ever works. If only one person is not in the office we often end up just using the phone.

      1. LQ*

        We even have trouble with the phones. My best/worst is the …SEVERAL times one of the managers of this area has dialed the wrong number and ended up with an adult hotline.

          1. LQ*

            She’s typing it it from a post it in her badge holder to a conference phone, she just either pushes buttons wrong, or reads it wrong each time.

    5. Rachel*

      We have a weekly meeting with combined remote and local staff. Everyone is required to login from their own desk, whether local or remote. It normally takes about 1 minute for everyone to be on and ready to go, unless they’re just plain late for reasons unrelated to the technology. I’m having a hard time understanding it taking 15 minutes. Maybe your organization has chosen a poor tool for this purpose? I hope that isn’t the problem, because you probably won’t be able to change that. We use Adobe Connect, which is expensive if you’re not making use of it in other ways.

      1. LQ*

        It could be poor technology. I think a lot of it is not being prepared. Some of it might be having options. We have amazon chime, zoom, webex, skype for business, and just a conference bridge number that I don’t know what service that one’s from but it’s another one. We are usually partly in a conference room/partly from home. Sometimes the person who is supposed to bring the laptop doesn’t bring it. Sometimes the in room click share doesn’t work so we can’t share with the room. Sometimes someone picked a bad room (working on that, we know that problem) and so the connection is bad. Sometimes the person on the other end is having trouble connecting. But I’d say at least 75% of the time the problem is with the in office folks, not the folks not in the office.

        Hm. It’s interesting that it’s almost always the in office problem. (Though I suppose I wouldn’t see if the not in office folks were having issues if we were having issues too.)

        (The times we have done everyone sign in from their desk annoy me to no end because I don’t have a machine that can do that so I’ve had to push back really hard on not doing that. And the folks who want these meetings are the ones saying that folks like me aren’t allowed to have machines with sound cards because why would we possibly need them….I have many feelings about that.)

  91. Rusty Shackelford*

    A family member is losing their job due to a corporate buyout. This is a not-particularly-skilled position (before being hired, they had no post-secondary education, but some relevant customer service experience), and there are many other people losing similar positions for the same reason. There is a severance package for people who stay till the bitter end, and I don’t know how much money is involved, but was told it’s “enough to make them want to stay.” So they don’t plan to start a job search until they’re actually unemployed, or close to it. In a small town, with dozens of others who are now looking for similar jobs in the same industry. I’m kind of horrified. I assume they’re looking forward to a nice windfall, but I’m afraid that windfall is going to be spent paying the bills as they spend several months looking for a job. (I also wonder if they’re actually looking forward to not having to work for several months, but that’s rampant speculation on my part.) I guess I’m not much of a gambler, because I’d be looking NOW. What do you guys think?

    1. MissDisplaced*

      There are two types of people. Type one, panics and begins searching for a new job as soon as the news is out. Type two waits, and looks forward to having some time off via a spate of unemployment.

      I don’t know which is right. It really depends on location and many other factors. I am a type one, and panic about being unemployed for any length of time, but I’ve seen many of the type two’s wait and still end up just fine. But I’ve also seen plenty of type two’s never really recover from the limbo of layoff land.

    2. Rachel*

      Given a small area and arriving late to the job-hunting party if I waited until the bitter end, I’d be with you. I’d start looking NOW. At least where I live, unemployment benefits are pretty skimpy. Your area may be better, or your relative may have low expenses that would make that less of a concern.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      I have to chuckle. Big Manufacturing Plant made it known it was leaving the area. My friend decided to ride it out to the end. He got a nice package. So nice that he took a year off from work. THEN, he decided to go back to school at age 45. It was easily 2-3 years before he worked again.

      He made it. He successfully changed to another field.
      His wife commented that it’s amazing how little money we actually need to live. If the house and car are paid for and other things are in place , we don’t need a large paycheck to remain financially stable.
      I think he was back to work for a year or two and they bought a second house. It can be done.

      I am in the Job Search Now Camp. But I see where other people can handle it differently and be totally successful.

  92. Future EdTech*

    I don’t anyone remembers me from a few years ago. But I wanted to document anyway.

    A year and a half ago I graduated with my M.A. in EdTech. I got super depressed and wonder if I should just start my ‘dream job’ of being an illustrator. Even started making business cards.

    Well, I didn’t land a job until a couple of weeks ago. After a phone interview where I was told I communicated poorly (kept interrupting me and she was cutting out) and I didn’t have the EdTech skills (you know despite that being my major) that I landed a job with higher pay.

    It’s not exactly EdTech, but I’m doing something that involves both Edcuation and Technology.

    So now I’m just panicking with my first ‘career’ job. Thank you so much Ask A Manager community for being there!

    1. JS#2*

      Congratulations on the job!

      I thought I was the only edtech with dreams of a career in illustration. Glad I’m not alone.

  93. I See Real People*

    I am an executive assistant with a desk in a common area of the office. Sometimes, when I’ve left the office for lunch or have the whole day off, a coworker sits in my chair doing various tasks. I’m not sure how long she sits here, but I’ve come back from being out of the office, and she’ll have files on my desk or be getting up from the chair; that’s not really the problem. It’s the smell that is left behind from her clothes on my cloth office chair. It’s a spoiled laundry kind of smell. It grosses me out and I feel like it gets on my clothes. She is an otherwise nice coworker and I enjoy her company. How could this issue be addressed, if at all?

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      That’s tricky. I might try a white lie. “Jane, for some reason the scent of your laundry detergent, or fabric softener, or something, lingers on my chair and irritates my eyes/nose. Would you mind moving your own chair over here if you have to work at my desk?”

      1. LQ*

        You could have a “spare” chair near by that she could use if getting hers to your desk is a big hurdle. I have a coworker who’s desk I have to use sometimes and I just bring over a nearby chair (there are usually at least a chair/aisle here so that people can pull up and talk/work on something together) because she’s incredibly short and I’m incredibly tall and I’d much rather use a stock no moving pieces chair than hers set for her height/etc. A spare chair like that along with the the scent lingers thing would cover that.

    2. Anon From Here*

      I think the usual points to hit are (1) have the conversation at the end of the day, so she’s not facing a number of hours feeling awkward before she goes home; (2) express your own discomfort at bringing it up; and (3) say as gently as you can, look, after you use my chair, it seems to me that maybe your clothes could benefit from being laundered a little more frequently.

      Personally I’d bring in a spray bottle with 90% rubbing alcohol and spray the chair at some point during the day when nobody would see me do it. (I’m not a fan of Febreze.) That worked for minor cat and human B.O. for an older sofa I used to have.

      1. fposte*

        Though this is a known problem with front loaders, so that would give a reasonable opportunity to blame a machine instead of a person.

        1. fposte*

          Sorry, that’s unclear–I mean for the OP, not for Sour Clothes Woman. “Your washer might not be working right” is an easier message to deliver, especially if it turns out that is the problem and Jane washes her clothes with a reasonable frequency.

          1. Rusty Shackelford*

            But you’re still telling her “your clothes stink,” which is a difficult thing to say even if it’s not her fault.

            1. fposte*

              No argument that it’s still a tough thing to say. I think your option is certainly worth trying too, if it’s easy for her to bring a chair there.

    3. Alpha Bravo*

      Could you buy a removable seat cover that you could store in a desk drawer? When you’re there, pull it out and put it on your chair. When you leave, it goes back in the drawer. If asked, it’s specially cushioned to ease your back when sitting at a desk all day.

  94. KR*

    Realized yesterday that the tuition assistance my company offers will completely cover me attending school part time, so this January I will start going back to school.

    1. ChemMoose*

      Yay! Good for you! Education is a lifelong committment and comes in different forms. As a previous TA, don’t be afraid to ask for help from your teachers/professors/TAs etc.

    2. AnonandAnon*

      Awesome! I should have taken my current and previous companies up on tuition reimbursement years ago, but only in the last few years did I seriously buckle down and do it. Happy to say 5 years later I have my BS. It’s a GREAT benefit and everyone should take advantage of it!

  95. Indie*

    How soon can you leave a job after becoming a permanent member of staff? For context, I’ve been at my school-based role for a year in a temp capacity. I brought a bunch of expertise and resources with me and solved a major issue. They were thrilled and promised me a permanent role at x salary within three months. Instead, I’ve gone half terms, Easter, Christmas and the long summer unpaid (because no holiday pay) while being constantly promised ‘soon’; I was finally told yesterday that my permanent contract starts in a few weeks. At a lower rate than discussed. After another holiday.

    I queried the terms, but no dice. I’m inclined to say nope, but we finally got a house offer accepted while they’ve been stringing me along. For mortgage purposes I want to say I am in a long term position about to go permanent to the bank. I also want to finish up my students’ courses before moving on, possibly after Christmas, but I might see something in the job ads beforehand. When I enquired about other potential opportunities with my agency though, they were aghast and said I’d be ‘burning bridges’. Thoughts?

    1. Seriously?*

      Were they aghast at the thought of you accepting the permanent position and still applying to other opportunities though them or turning down the position and applying to other opportunities. I can see why they wouldn’t want to place you somewhere and then find you something else since it could affect their relationship with the employer. If they don’t want you to turn it down when they are offering you less than previously discussed, then they are being ridiculous. I think if you want to accept the position and keep looking, you can’t really do it though this agency.

      1. Indie*

        When I spoke to them it was before hearing about the start date and I was saying ‘Its never going to happen’ but the agency were confident they could chase it up for me.. which i guess they have. I’m not sure if she was just aghast at the agency setting me up with an alternative; she was saying ‘That would make us look bad’ even though I said I had more tact than that or if she was suggesting I was too locked in to look around.

    2. CBE*

      Stay long enough to get the house, then move on. The agency can be aghast all they want. I would *hope* they are aghast at the way you’ve been treated with the delays and bait and switch, but you con’t win them all.

  96. raktajino*

    I’m considering applying for a position within my company, on another team in another department altogether. Most of the team is a few time zones away (in the US), while I’d be on the West coast with one coworker who has been there forever. The team recently saw a bunch of reorganization due in a large part to the reorgs that have been happening at that office. There’s now a position open because one person at that office quit without a job lined up. Obviously I’d like to talk to this person to figure out why. I’m very interested in the work they do, but I don’t know that my local coworker has an accurate read on the rest of her team, or whether that matters if you’re nowhere near.

    Question for y’all: What has been your experience working not in the same office as the bulk of your team? Does that make team dynamics easier to ignore, or harder? What kinds of flags should I look for?

  97. Anon (this time)*

    I’ve been struggling the last few months with increasingly frequent and longer-duration depressive episodes. I’m working with a therapist and doing my best to go easy on myself, but when more and more of each week is taken up by hours-long periods where I feel NUMB (except for spikes of intense anger and sadness), obviously it’s hard to just do life things.

    Cut to work: a significant part of the depression I’m living with is how much it’s sinking in that I shouldn’t be doing what I’m doing. It’s not a bad job. I don’t work with bad people. I’m paid fairly. And I believe that there is absolutely nothing wrong with doing a job just to get paid and finding your fulfillment elsewhere, but… I don’t have any fulfillment at work OR elsewhere right now. And I haven’t for a long time. Most of my life? All of it?

    Like so many jobs, it just sort of happened to me. I fell into skills at a ToxicJob that allowed me to get this job, but none of it is something I really ‘chose’ or would have chosen to do. I hate what I’m doing. I don’t care about anything. Every time I have to learn something new at my current job (which is a lot, due to recent transitions and shorthandedness) I feel actively resentful and angry that more of my (dwindling) energy and brainspace has to be taken up by this job.

    Due to an ongoing medical thing and insurance coverage I’m unlikely to get elsewhere, I need to stay for at least another half-year or so. And I’m hoping that therapy will help me work through the depression and also get me ready to do some career counseling or testing so I can figure out what I actually want to do with my life.

    But in the meantime, I am exhausted. I am numb. I am furious. I feel sick. I want to put my face in a pillow and scream. And Jimbob the Salessquirrel keeps emailing me because he wants to know why why why why why the thing I told him is being worked on isn’t done yet even though I keep telling him. And it just makes me want to crawl under my desk and cry.

    1. The Ginger Ginger*

      Do you qualify for FMLA? Could you take some leave to address the depressive issues with your doctor(s) without having to share your resources with work? Take a real break if you can.

      1. Anon (this time)*

        I don’t really know the process for FMLA. I’m not seeking a formal diagnosis and paying out of pocket for therapy (with an LCSW, not a clinical psychiatrist) rather than go through process of getting insurance to cover it (for several reasons). Is there a way to take a leave of absence without losing all my income or handing over all my private mental health information to insurance?

        1. The Ginger Ginger*

          So I’m definitely not an FMLA expert – I’ve never used it, but I did just google a bit and found this FAQ (link in my name). You’d have to see if you’re eligible first, and the employer isn’t required to pay you, but PTO CAN be part of it – so it’s not guaranteed to be unpaid. You can also take it intermittently and not in a big chunk. Like a day a week, or a half day a week to go to appts, etc. So there still might be a workable way to pull a check and get some breathing space. I don’t know that there are specific requirements on the types of medical help you’re getting. So your current therapy set up might be just fine. You may even ask them if they have resources on FMLA and how (if) you could be using it at the moment. And it also sounds like – while the employer could possibly ASK for your medical info in response to an FMLA request – you are not required to provide it. So definitely look into that aspect of it. You may not be forced to disclose as much as you’re worried about.

          Maybe someone who’s successfully used FMLA could chime in?

        2. That Would be a Good Band Name*

          I haven’t been on the getting FMLA approved side of it, but my understanding is that a doctor needs to sign off on the paperwork. I’m uncertain if a LCSW is able to do this or not but google suggests yes. I’ve worked in HR adjacent roles and so I do know that it’s unpaid (unless you have PTO that you can use) and the intermittent option might be good for you since it would allow you to take a day here and there (up to 12 total weeks in a rolling year). Insurance shouldn’t have to enter into it at all since you are paying out of pocket for your therapy.

          Also, I think it’s HUGE that you were able to even post about this. I went through a two year period of being numb (I think I kept saying that I felt “blah”) and even typing up something like this would have been next to impossible. Lots of internet well wishes coming your way.

    2. Anna Held*

      Sending hugs.

      Can you take a couple days off? Taking a long weekend and doing something specific for fun — nothing you need to plan, just going to a popular tourist site or festival in your area — can help. Visiting friends is good too. Just something to get out of your rut a bit and shake off some depression, enough so you can put some plans in place to change the situation.

      And tell squirrel boy that it’d be done by now if you didn’t have to keep interrupting your work to deal with his sorry ass.

      1. Anon (this time)*

        Ironically I just took a couple of days off, a Friday and Monday, and didn’t feel much better. I spent most of it more depressed because I wasn’t distracted by work. But maybe it just wasn’t enough time to really take care of myself. :\

        I reminded squirrelboy that my boss just quit (we’re shorthanded over here, bro!) and he hasn’t emailed me again.

    3. Tired*

      Not much to suggest, but I’m sending lots of sympathy. I’m in much the same boat. I hate my job and find no fulfillment in any aspect of my life. It’s draining and I dread going in to work. Do you have an EAP? I’ve been using mine for a couple of weeks and I’ve found it helpful to have someone to vent to and talk about some things to do to help myself.

    4. Hiring Mgr*

      Sorry to hear you are going through this. Besides the therapist, have you talked to a doctor about antidepressants? I ask because you might consider medication in addition to therapy. It’s not a cure all of course, but can really help, and has for many people I know.

    5. Angela*

      You sound like me…Had major problems with depression. I could not get happy with my life. Major anxiety issues. Difficulties with self care. What did help very quickly was medication. It literally saved my life.

      I know it is not for everyone, but there should be no stigma in taking medicine for a chronic condition a person may have.

      1. High functioning depressed person*

        In addition, as someone with mental health issues on long term medication. Sometimes the medication can help you get through a rough patch caused by work. Then once you’re able to change the situation the medication may not be needed. I feel guilty often about taking my meds, like it’s the easy way out, but it’s also easier on my partner and daughter. Not that you have to take meds, but trying to let you know that it’s an option without shame that many people utilize. Also the insurance company doesn’t care except in that they hate paying for anything ever. I used to have tons of a access to medical records for work and the only things we commented on were being mildly sad when a patient was deceased or amused by medication names.

  98. Jane Victoria*

    Picking up the thread from last week about keeping personal files/items/messy desks at work and manager involvement/control (https://www.askamanager.org/2018/08/can-i-ask-my-bosss-husband-not-to-renew-someones-contract-keeping-personal-files-at-work.html), when someone has a visible desk in a highly-trafficked service area literally overflowing with personal decor (think: sports paraphernalia, stuffed animals and other toys, photos of movie stars from People magazine, etc.), where would you draw that line as a manager? Ideally, I’d like this desk to be moderately cleaned up, but certainly don’t want to go so far as to mandate rules like “no more than one family photo, one coffee mug, and one plant” as I’ve seen some of my colleagues in other departments do.

    1. MissDisplaced*

      Can’t you just say something like: No more than 6 visible personal items?
      I sympathize when dealing with the hoarders though. Nothing you say will seem reasonable to them.

      I don’t know why people do this at work, and try to setup their cube like a living room with bric a brac all over.

    2. Rusty Shackelford*

      Yeah, you really don’t want to get into quantifying how much flair people can have. What is the actual problem that needs to be solved? Do customers see this desk? Is it a safety hazard? Is it attracting bugs? Does it make it difficult for others to find what they might need in that person’s work area?

    3. The Ginger Ginger*

      If it’s just one person, I wouldn’t make a global rule. That’s really unfair to the team. Can you just talk to this person directly? “Hey, I appreciate that you want to be comfortable in your space here, but can you dial back your extraneous cubicle decor? I’m not asking you to get rid of it all, but it really needs to stay within your personal area/not exceed the height of your walls, not be on the floor/etc.” Give specific examples so it’s not just some vague “make it look nicer” instruction. You could mention how it’s impacting work: distraction/safety issue (if it’s really overflowing out into a walkway)/presents as professionally off to higher ups walking through the department. Whatever the reason.

      Don’t belabor it or make it a big thing. Don’t use a rebuking kind of tone, just quick, matter of fact request. If they don’t take care of it in a week, then it’s time for the “what happened?” conversation.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      My MIL was in an assisted living place. Their go-to was, “clutter makes it too hard on the cleaning person, and it takes too long to do the job.” This works into the company cannot pay someone to dust the clutter so some of it has to go.

  99. ChemMoose*

    I’m interviewing in 10 min for an internal stretch position that manages people. I am hoping I’ll get it, especially with all the knowledge I’ve gained here. *crossed fingers for a whole month since our company is dreadfully slow at the interview process*

  100. Not a unicorn*

    So I had an interview last week that I feel I probably sucked at (more to do with lack of required experience for the job than anything). Also, with my main industry specific job site no longer around (Orca) it’s now even more difficult to find new postings *sigh*

    Also tried contacting a job agency yesterday but don’t know if I’ll hear back. At this point, trying to find anything better than this customer support job but not looking good.

  101. PM-NYC*

    I am currently charged with creating a new Contacts Database for our large nonprofit, to replace a system that is outdated, hard to use and often ignored in favor of departments creating their own lists on various software. I’m wondering if anyone in the nonprofit world can tell me what system they use?

    This wouldn’t be for sending out emails (we use Mailchimp for that) or tracking donors specifically (we have a donation platform + Salesforce) this would be a system that is organization-wide, stores contacts and can easily be accessed via phone. Obviously there are a lot of options out there, but curious what the “industry standard” is if there is one?

    Happy to clarify if this is too vague a question.

    1. Ali G*

      Salesforce has an app that you can use on your phone. I would focus on making sure all the contact info is up to date in Salesforce and have people use that.

  102. CynicallySweet7*

    I used the advice here and got myself a really big raise this year (23% increase)!! No question just wanted to share… During that meeting the column about what to do if you cry in the office became very helpful as well (my boss was really cool about it)

  103. Gaia*

    One week in to the lovely world of unemployment and….it is kind of a mess.

    Old Company is jacking up a lot that we’d agreed on. It feels like pulling teeth. It isn’t malice, just pure incompetence (which kind of makes it worse….).

    Early forays into the job search are less than promising. I really want to stay in data management but my background is from a business perspective (I understand the business processes, business objectives, and business needs and manage the data of a particular area to ensure it works for the business. My focus isn’t so much on the data model or technical system requirements – although I am ultimately responsible for those – and reporting) as opposed to a technical or reporting perspective. There is a growing interest in this as companies recognize that their data can be technically perfect and, yet, useless to them. But most positions still want a very technical data manager with a background I just don’t have (and I’m not really interested in pursuing heavily). It is looking like I may need to take a big step back to the Coordinator (which I can’t really do financially and don’t really want to do as I won’t be challenged) or look at other areas entirely. This is especially true as I cannot relocate at the moment (for a lot of reasons) so I either need something near me (small town, not likely) or remote (which is my ideal setup and perfect for this work, but weirdly not common).

    But for now, I’m keeping busy and trying to focus on getting my resume in top form. Old Company has referred me to an outplacement service (LHH) which….looks to be handing out some really bad and cheesy advise but I’ll see what they come up with.

  104. Annoyed*

    I have a sort of odd predicament that I was hoping for some opinions on. We recently changed the way our stations are at my work, we acquired additional office space and they moved people around to give my department and another one more room. This meant there is now a big space between where I sit and where another department sits.

    I have no problems with the set up really, or where I sit and I don’t want to move. The problem is, the closest person to me (which is still not next to me but a bit away) is a department manager (which, btw, I am not) but she is not mine. Since we’ve gotten this set up, I can’t help but to notice that another department manager usually heads over to her desk towards the end of the work day and, well, sits there and talks, and talks, and talks and talks…. usually anywhere from an hour to 2! It’s not about work either, it’s about personal stuff (they are really good friends).

    We sit now in a very empty area, so there is really no one else around so I’m assuming they think no one hears them. I really don’t care if they waste all their time the problem is, I can hear every single thing they talk about. It’s really distracting and annoying. I have the option to hear headphones, but I don’t always want to listen to something. I’ve taken to just wearing them to avoid hearing them talk, but I can still hear them most of the time.

    Since they are both department managers (not mine) and I am not one, I feel awkward saying something to them, or to my own manager. I don’t want to come across like I’m telling on them… I don’t want to get them in trouble but I also would like them to stop talking! How should I frame this? “Jane and Jill are having frequent long conversations at Jane’s desk and it’s distracting me”? Or should I just learn to deal with the issue.

    1. MissDisplaced*

      I might frame this with the one who sits closest to you as a privacy thing.
      “Hey, I just wanted to let you know your personal conversations aren’t really private and you might want to think about taking them elsewhere as I can overhear everything from where I’m sitting.” or “Are you aware that your voices carry over the empty space making your conversations overheard?”

      It might make them take heed to keep it shorter… or they might just not care.

    2. Danny*

      Honestly I would let it go. You are new to the desk area and while it is definitely unprofessional for them to sit around gabbing, I’d be mad if my new desk mate started complaining to their boss about something I had always done. These two are managers and it’s not really your place to tell them how to spend their time.

      It seems like the fact that they talk about personal stuff is really what’s annoying you. Wouldn’t it be equally as distracting if they were talking about work? You wouldn’t exactly be able to tell them to stop then, either. Use the headphones.

  105. DavidR*

    Hi everyone. I posted a comment a couple of weeks back asking for advice on how to deal with my stepfather, who is harassing me and threatening me from his job. The link to the last post is here: https://www.askamanager.org/2018/08/open-thread-august-10-11-2018.html#comment-2107126

    Hate to say it, but it hasn’t gotten any better. I proactively blocked the guy off of LinkedIn so he can’t see any details about my employment, and I told my company’s HR I have a stalker named _____ ______ and that he might try to contact them to harass me. HR took that well, thankfully.

    On his side the gotten worse, though. The government agency he works for won’t talk to me because I’m not a client of theirs/I don’t use their services. I forwarded the emails he sent encouraging me to kill myself from his work email to the regional manager of his office, but there was no acknowledgement from them. Meanwhile, he’s kept it up. He gets into a lot of political arguments on twitter where he has starts swearing at the other person and talking about how he hopes they die, and now he’s tweeted that I’m an “alt right neo Nazi,” after sending me anti Semitic slurs on Facebook messenger.

    At this point, I don’t know what to do. The cops don’t think it rises to harassment or stalking, and wouldn’t give me a case number the last time I went to the PD. He is at the lretirement age, so I’m worried that once he retires and has nothing but free time, it’ll get worse. The two options I see are:

    1. Send all his threats, slurs, and encouragements to kill myself to this guy’s family and explain that I don’t have any ill will towards them, but I just want to be left alone. I don’t like this idea, but it is a possibility.
    2. Get a lawyer to send him and his government department nastygrams. I’m also skeptical of this because I don’t want money, just to be left alone, and they can drag this out (i.e. until he retires) and cost me a lot of money.

    Any advice is appreciated.

    1. Cheese Boat*

      Have you ever read the Gift of Fear by Gavin DeBecker (sp?)? It is a great book and has extensive instructions for people in domestic violence and/or stalking situations, the reader’s digest of which could be summed up as: don’t respond, keep records of everything and do what you can to protect yourself without responding (e.g. a restraining order might egg them on without providing any real protection). When you respond in any way to these provocations it is basically telling that person that it takes X number of calls/emails/etc to get a response out of you.

      That said, I’m so sorry and I hope the harassment ceases and you can get the help you need to feel safe and at peace.

    2. MissDisplaced*

      I’m sorry you’re dealing with this. It is casebook definition of cyber bullying.

      Can you block him from any and all social accounts.
      Can you possibly change your email and social accounts? (might be only way to get rid of him)
      It’s good you let your HR know you have a stalker in case he tries to sabotage you. I would continue to keep them updated on steps you’ve taken.

      Probably not much else you can do regarding his employer. You’ve let them know, even if no acknowledgement, it doesn’t mean they aren’t investigating. If, even after blocking/changing your email and social accounts he persists or finds a way around it, you may want to contact an attorney for your own protection and to advise you on legal action. Hopefully, nastyman gives up when deprived of the audience, but you want to protect yourself in case it escalates. Remember to keep copies of everything and document times and dates. This will go a long way to prove your case if things do get worse.

    3. WellRed*

      I was going to say lawyer to send some sort of cease and desist. That doesn’t mean you’ll get dragged into a long battle or even that you are looking for money. It means you want to be left alone. Most companies tend to take even the threat of something like a lawsuit or settlement seriously, wouldn’t the government department be even more so?

    4. Temperance*

      If he’s your stepfather, he’s married to your mother, right? What does she think?

      In your shoes, depending on a bunch of other factors, I might actually contact local media and let them know what’s been happening, and that the government agency won’t do anything, the police won’t take a report, etc.

      1. DavidR*

        My mother passed away last year. I was raised by my father, and the stepfather (I use that as it’s the closest term; I have met this man in person less than 10 times) blames me for my mothers death (some of his more unhinged emails accuse me of killing her) and thinks I stole money she left to him.

        Who knows what he’s told his family about me. That’s why I don’t want to contact them.

          1. DavidR*

            Yeah. He’s not right in the head, but he’s not a good person either. I don’t want anything aside to be left alone, but if he needed to be fired or arrested to get that to happen (and yes, I know those things might just make him angrier — I’m just giving examples), I wouldn’t lose any sleep over it.

            That might sound like it’s out of left field, but his job is a pretty important social service and I’m sure people would think “oh, a guy like that isn’t ever going to harass someone half his age. He’s a pillar of his community.”

    5. Anon for this comment*

      Is it state government or federal? If it’s federal, contact either your Congressman or one of your Senators. I work for Congress and we actually have a fair amount of clout over federal agencies (we just got the local Social Security office in BIG trouble for not dealing with a similar situation, actually). Your state representatives and state senators can do the same on the state level, but that depends more on the individual state. Good luck!

      1. DavidR*

        It’s city. They have a very powerful union and either I haven’t gotten through to the right person, or they’re hoping to stall until this guy retires and it’s someone else’s problem.

        2. Anon for this comment*

          Possibly talk to your city councilman? Even though you aren’t using that particular service of the city, you’re still a taxpayer and this is unacceptable behavior coming from their employee.

    6. AnonSurvivorVictim*

      My stalking story didn’t start with me actually knowing who was doing it. Anonymity was this dude’s agenda, so you at least have a leg up here. I had to go to the police multiple times (no case number until the end) because while they admitted that yeah, there’s probably something happening, there isn’t enough actual evidence there to prove anything. Until there was an escalation that I won’t mention specifically where we suddenly had actual evidence, fast forward a bit and I’m in court proceedings. Unfortunately, I think the fact that you’re male works against you. If you were a woman, you’d likely get more sympathy. We’re such docile, helpless creatures after all.

      I’m going to suggest you look up your state’s definition of stalking vs harassment and see if they have anything about cyber stalking on the books also. In my state, it’s a stalking is a felony. Monetary charge. Prison time. That he’s using government servers/devices to send you things is fantastic — burden of proof is straightforward. Save all those emails (forward them to yourself in a specially dedicated email) and print copies of them. Getting the governmental department to block anything is a short term solution. I would almost contact your location’s bar association and see if they can recommend you a lawyer specific to this issue. They should do a consult for a nominal fee (I did one for like $20 for a related/unrelated matter with my stalker). That your police department isn’t helping with any of this yet is troublesome, but you might be able to pursue a strongly worded, legalese filled letter to your relative detailing that you don’t want to be contacted.

      All that said, you may qualify for a protective/restraining order. Without knowing your state, I can’t say definitively whether you do or not. But that’s something else you could pursue. That means that should be you contacted again, it would be in violation, which is another rabbit hole of annoyance for your relative. It won’t magically save you, but it’s helpful.

    7. The Ginger Ginger*

      Are you responding at all; if so, I would stop immediately. No more responses from you at all – ESPECIALLY if you’ve already asked him to knock it off. Do you have enough evidence that you can block him completely on social media? I just hate that you’re still seeing him and he still has access to you on facebook chat. I’d print that log for your records and block him ASAP. You may want to head over to Captain Awkward and look up some of her advice on stalkers and coping with them. There’s a lot of valuable resources there.

      1. DavidR*

        I blocked him off of FB and everything else, but then he started harassing my father. I filter all emails from him to a specific Gmail folder, and I also print them out and save the hard copies.

        I only responded to him once. It was basically “I wish you a peaceful life but I don’t want any contact with you. Kindly stop trying to reach out to me.” And that was six months ago.

        1. The Ginger Ginger*

          Wow. That’s alarming that he’s escalated to your dad. Is your dad also blocking him in all possible ways? I wish I had better advice for you. For sure check out Captain Awkward. And I don’t know what your resources are like, but I wonder if you can find a sort of security advisor with an expertise in stalking/cyber stalking. They could maybe evaluate your situation and make recommendations. I know there are folks out there who do that. It might help to have someone to talk through it who will take you at your word and not try to talk you out of your concern.

          You said this is a relative by marriage. Can you talk to the person who’s married into your side and ask them to escalate to their side of the family? Is there enough of a relationship there that that’s a feasible option? This is very disturbing behavior.

          1. DavidR*

            I don’t know his family well. I was raised by my dad after my mother remarried, so stepfather isn’t the most accurate term, just the most concise. She passed away last year and he (“stepfather”) blames me for it.

            Since I do not know his family, I’m not sure how they would react if I told them about this. I don’t know what he’s told them about me, either. I’m not sure if I can phrase it delicately either; “I would like to be left alone by him” feels like it has an unsaid “and if you don’t get him to go away, I’m calling the cops on your dad” attached to the end.

            I am not afraid of him as a threat to my physical safety, but now that he’s trying to interfere with my career I’m becoming concerned. I don’t want a made up accusation of me being a white nationalist (from someone who’s called me anti Semitic slurs!!!) to come up when people search for me online.

            1. The Ginger Ginger*

              Yeah. Okay wow. That is not okay. And I can see why reaching out to that mutual connection isn’t an option. Is this a case where a cease and desist letter from a lawyer is an option? I honestly don’t know if that would be an step above you looping his family in or a step below on the escalation meter.

              Do you think you could get any traction with his family with framing the communication in terms of – “This seems like a sudden change of behavior from (Your Relative), and I wanted you to be aware because I know this can frequently be a sign of a serious health condition. Here’s the kind of thing he’s been doing (provide documentation). Can you check in on him?”

              So just – float the balloon with no request for intervention on YOUR behalf, just on his. Then, based on how they respond, if it continues, it might give you an opening to say – “hey, I don’t need to know what’s going on healthwise with him, but can you ask him to stop? I’m feeling harassed, and I’d like this contact from him to stop.”

              1. DavidR*

                That’s an idea. I worry about it because he’s going to react negatively at being taken to task for this, however it happens. But I don’t think it’s a bad idea.

                From what I understand, he lives alone, and a lot of his emails and tweets come after hours, so I’m assuming he goes home, drinks alone, and decides to get into fights with people on the computer (there are a lot of misspellings and grammatical errors, which is the reason I think he’s drinking as he does this).

                I think I’ll do that. A family intervention where they get him some psychiatric help would probably be much better for me than him getting suspended or fired from his job. Don’t get me wrong: I’m not holding off on doing something because I don’t want him to get in trouble. He’s shown that he’s a really terrible person by encouraging me to kill myself and harassing my father. I just want to be left alone.

        2. Not a Mere Device*

          Has your father contacted the police? I suspect “my ex-wife’s second husband, who I never had any kind of relationship with, is harassing me because my daughter won’t talk to him” might get a different reaction. The term “stepfather” implies a relationship and that plus sexism might lead some people to think he has a right to talk to you; “ex-wife’s second husband” is either no relationship, or they’d tend to see your father as having the moral high ground (if they think of your father as being the aggrieved party in a divorce).

          1. DavidR*

            I think there definitely is an optics issue, it just goes the other way around :)

            I’m a man (David isn’t my real name and neither D or R are in my initials — standard online anonymity procedure). I am a tall guy and lift weights 3-4 times a week, so I’m a big, muscular guy who looks like he can take care of himself. On the other hand, the guy harassing me is approaching retirement age and works in a job for the city that’s considered a public good, or something that really moral and upright people do: think social worker, teacher, etc. I can easily see the cops I went to, or the admin at his department thinking “no way, he’s a good guy, would someone in THAT job really tell people to kill themselves?”; cops, teachers, firemen, sanitation workers, and all the other municipal jobs usually have a bunch of relatives and friends in other city jobs.

            Lots of people — even in liberal and progressive areas — have an attitude that your family is your family, and you have to stand by them no matter what; i.e. it’s wrong to not talk to your parents/siblings. It would not surprise me if people were extending that to step-parents. Either way, it doesn’t matter any further than understanding how it works so I can use it to my advantage and finally get him to go away.

            I don’t fear physical retaliation from this guy but I want to be left the hell alone. Especially now that he’s tried to go after my career by tweeting that I’m a white nationalist.

        3. ..Kat..*

          Saving the emails is smart.

          Sadly, I think if you were a petite female, you would get more police attention.

          I think you have reached the point where you need a lawyer’s advice. You can contact your state’s bar association for a recommendation of local lawyers that specialize in this stuff.

          Are you comfortable talking with your manager, coworkers, HR about what is going on? That way, if this guy contacts them, they will know what is going on and won’t buy into it.

          How is your home security? Recommend good locks on doors and windows, security cameras. Even though you are not worried about being able to take care of yourself physically, you don’t want him breaking in and wreaking havoc while you are not home. Plus, you don’t want him breaking in while you are sleeping.

          Good luck. I am sorry that you are having to deal with this.

          1. DavidR*

            To keep it short and as apolitical as possible: I agree on your first point, that it’s a matter of perception. The system is broken, for all innocent people.

            I called the bar in my area for a referral on Friday, and I got shut down in a weird way. The person I got wouldn’t refer me to a lawyer; she just insisted all I have to do is go to family court and get a restraining order. I’m not sure if I just got someone really unpleasant or someone who believes that you always need to stick by your family no matter what and sees me in the wrong here, but it doesn’t matter. I’m new at my job and I don’t want to burn vacation days without doing some research first, so I’d like a lawyer’s advice before I go through the unpleasant experience of multiple family court dates, getting a process server to deliver a restraining order to his workplace, and any sort of counter action.

            My manager and HR are aware and understanding. I love my job and I do good work, so I am not worried there. I’m also not a publicly facing employee in any context. It’s on my LinkedIn (which I blocked him on) but that’s it.

            I do work with a professional organization outside of my day job. It’s definitely a possibility that he could come to one of our meetings and confront me or cause some other disturbance. I could definitely ask the building staff to ban him and I’ll do that next time we’re there. That is easy; access is by ID, so if he sees I work with this org and decides to come to our open meetings to harass me, security will see his name on the ban list once he gets there and ask him to leave — they will restrain him if he doesn’t cooperate, I unfortunately once saw that.

            Home security: I live in an apartment building which has a lock on the front door, and you need two additional locks to open the door to my apartment. Most people are friendly and would let someone in, though, which is a danger. I’m gonna talk to the property manager, give them the story and a photo of him, and ask that they ban him from the building. I’ll know more tomorrow, but since he’s nearly 70 I don’t think he will be climbing in my windows or anything.

    8. Not All Who Wander*

      Since he’s using his government email, I’d continue pursuing it that way (though it’s highly likely he’ll switch to another method eventually, it will at least cause him issues).

      The best place to report things like this is usually the Inspector General for each Department rather than just pulling someone random in his agency. This administration has SO many scandals, you’re going to have to be a serious squeaky wheel…possibly with threats to provide copies of his emails from the government account to a media outlet…in order to get much traction.

      Since I don’t know what agency he’s with, here’s the website for the high level OIGs.
      https://www.ignet.gov/content/inspectors-general-directory

      Also, try searching agency name + department of ethics or EEO (since he’s crossed into EEO territory with those threats) for another level of contacts.

      Good luck!!!

    9. LCL*

      He’s city government? The city will have some kind of ethics board. Search online for it using terms such as complaints and ethics violation and whistleblower. Report it directly to them and be sure to include that the city agency he works for hasn’t been able to stop it.

    10. Not So NewReader*

      I would consider a scattered approach.
      What needs to happen is the people who are NOT doing their jobs need to suddenly become aware that a bunch of other people SEE them not doing their jobs.

      I would write one letter, describe what is happening, describe what you have done so far and what the response has been. Describe what is happening currently. Ask for help.

      Next make a list of people you would like to send this to. I would consider the state attorney general, the FBI, the state police, the city attorney, the district attorney. You do not say if your father lives in the same state as you, but since your stepfather is also stalking your father, you could include people from your dad’s state- his state police, his AG, his district attorney and so on.

      At the bottom of that one letter you write you want to list off ALL.THE. PEOPLE you are cc’ing on this. This is so each recipient KNOWS someone else is reading the same letter.

      Put good thought into your letter. Write clearly so most people can easily follow along. Next make a good list of people who SHOULD care. This is your mailing list. Use an excel spreadsheet or organize all this in a hard copy file so you know who you have contacted and when.

      If you have a trustworthy thinking person by you, ask them to help you bounce around ideas or at least read your final draft to check it for flow and logic. The clearer you write the more apt people will be to pay closer attention.

      The cost here will be a bunch of time, some ink and some stamps. I bet someone will pay attention.

      1. DavidR*

        Thank you. I like this idea a lot. My family, my dad, and the “stepfather” (he’s not truly my stepfather as my mother gave my dad’s family custody before she remarried) all live in the same city.

  106. BigSigh*

    Do you remember that letter the other month about the office nail clipper? I tried to use that script and it didn’t go well. I was so careful with tone and posture, but she got defensive immediately. I was really caught off guard.

    Then it became her saying things like “I’ve been doing this for years and no one’s ever complained, so why should I stop?”, “You’re being so rude about it, I don’t want to,” “It’s too much of a personal hardship to go all the way across the office to the restroom,” and my favorite “I’ll check the company handbook and only stop if it’s against the rules in there.”

    Just because no one else has spoken up doesn’t mean they’re not bothered. With our open floor plan, it was impossible for people not to overhear her freaking out after I asked her to stop. I had 3 people call me the office hero privately and 2 say they’d go to HR themselves the next time she did it (also privately, which doesn’t help with the fact that she thinks I’m alone in this request). But it’s nail clipping. It blows my mind that quietly requesting someone stop doing that at work could be escalated to HR!

    There wasn’t a lot I could say when the office nail clipper got so angry. She was insistent that her cube was like an extension of her home and she does her whole hygiene routine there. I couldn’t even think of what to say in the moment I was so grossed out. I just stared at her. We’re in an office, not your home….

    1. Quackeen*

      Yikes. There are a lot of things that aren’t in the company handbook, but reasonable people don’t do them.

      This is how we end up with oddball written policies that were clearly created to address that one problem child who wouldn’t be reasonable.

    2. MissDisplaced*

      She was insistent that her cube was like an extension of her home and she does her whole hygiene routine there.

      “It’s too much of a personal hardship to go all the way across the office to the restroom,” What do they do when they’ve gotta take a piss? Is that also a personal hardship?

      Ugh! What a piece of work. That alone is reason to involve HR if they don’t stop. I can’t believe some people.

      1. EddieSherbert*

        I also had this question! And… assuming she pees in the bathroom… she could just bring the clippers with then and do her nails when her’s already there?

        I also would have struggled to respond! Definitely one of those situations where you plan out every probable answer… and then get a really batty answer like that!

      1. BigSigh*

        Honestly, I kind of agree. Though if they do go to HR, I suppose that’s something and I’ll be grateful for that back up.

  107. Quackeen*

    I know I’m not very known here, since I only recently started de-lurking and posting more, but I feel like I know all of you! And I know what thought you all put into your comments.

    I’m just really struggling right now. I was laid off in June and was fortunate to land a position in July…but it’s just not a good fit for me. The job I was laid off from had a culture of flexibility and autonomy, whereas this one is “butts in seats for 42.5 hours”, despite there not being an operational need for it to be the case. I’m not in a service role. I could work from anywhere. But it’s Just Not Done here, not even for people who have been here 6 or 8 years, like my counterparts.

    I’m looking and applying again (although how the hell will I get the OK to take time off to interview? Who knows…), but my self-esteem was ripped to shreds by the layoff and I’m feeling pretty hopeless.

    Mostly just needed to vent a little. Feels better than shutting my office door and crying, which has been my other go-to.

    1. MissDisplaced*

      Sorry, that sucks. Been there a time or two.
      Try to look at it this way, it’s often easier to find a job when you have a job. So, begin looking while you’re getting paid. If you get interviews, try to schedule in the early morning hours (like at 8am if possible). Most employers understand the difficulties of time off while you’re employed.
      And don’t beat yourself up over a bad culture fit. It happens, even if you did your best due diligence beforehand.
      I’m sort of going through that myself at a 1 year mark. I like my work and my team, but the problem with with another department I rely on to meet my goals and an overall poor company culture the seems to emanate largely from that department.

    2. Anna Held*

      Hugs.

      Can you spend the extra time on stuff that will benefit your career, like online courses, or practicing new features in excel? Think of it as being proactive in your job search, on the company’s dime!

    3. WellRed*

      Having been for so long now at my job where we have flexibility and autonomy, man I cannot handle the “butts in seats mentality.” Saw a job posting noting such a work and environment and just kept on noping past it.

      1. Quackeen*

        I just don’t get it. It’s also not what I was told during the interview process (“We’re very family friendly!”), so I’m pretty aggravated by that as well.

        1. EddieSherbert*

          That’s something I fear – I *know* I’ll screen for flexibility whenever I decide to job hunt… but there’s nothing you can do if they’re not very honest about it when you’re asking!

  108. Nita*

    Are there houseplants that do well in cold, dry, kind of windy AND low-light environments? That’s my office. The windy part is because the HVAC on my floor is poorly balanced, and the outlet over my desk seems to put out the entire cold air for half the floor. I’m wearing a sweater in here all summer, which looks ridiculous if I just walk 40 feet over to the other side of the office (which is pretty warm), or even across the hallway (to the side with the sunny windows). I’ve tried a couple of really tough plants that don’t need much light, but the HVAC was tougher.

      1. Cheese Boat*

        I second this! My office is not windy but it is eternally freezing, dry, and windowless. My mother-in law tongue snake plant has slowed its growth perhaps a little since I brought it here, but it seems happy enough even with the lights being on for only ~40 hours a week.

    2. Corky's Wife Bonnie*

      Spathiphyllum (Peace Lily) or Dieffenbachia plants do well in offices, don’t need a lot of care and depending on the size, just need to be watered 1-2 times a week.

      1. Nita*

        I’ve wanted a peace lily for a while! Maybe I’ll try one, and if it starts to look miserable I’ll just take it home.

      2. Woman of a Certain Age*

        I have a Dieffenbachia plant that was given to me by an old boyfriend more than 30 years ago and the plant is still doing fine.

    4. EddieSherbert*

      Honestly, I gave up and have a couple nice looking fake plants at this point. Definitely wasn’t worse the frustration for me… (and I’m the gardening type! I have many, many wonderful thriving plants at home!)

    5. ..Kat..*

      Have you tried a vent blocker? I bought some from Amazon – they use very strong magnets. Or can you close your vent part way?

  109. Gaia*

    On another note, I’d like some opinions on this. Old Company has always awarded stock options to employees. Everyone there at least 3 months when they are awarded is given X% of their salary in options that vest in 2, 3, and 4 years. They’ve announced they are changing this now (it is on the portal which I still have as i need to access my options).

    Now, there will be no options. Instead, employees will contribute 1.67% of their salary every year into a fund. At the end of 3 years, Old Company will award a 10X match of these funds for employees to purchase stock at market rate.

    This feels like a terrible plan. First, this is a stock that has gone up at least 30% every year for the last 10 years. Because you have to hold the money aside for 3 years, you’re losing value as opposed to if you just bought it year 1 and let it sit. But also, market rate? Really? It is nice that they are giving a significant match but I think this will result in way fewer employees being stock holders.

    Am I off base here? Is this normal (in the US)?

    1. MissDisplaced*

      Sounds pretty lame and cheap to me.
      But in the US employers can and will do pretty much whatever they want in this regard to benefits and compensation. I’ve had the much-touted “benefit” of 401k matching contributions paused and/or reversed.

      1. Gaia*

        I often roll my eyes when companies brag that they offer a 401k. Not matching. Just a 401k. Like. wooooow really? You let me contribute my own money to my own retirement? Gosh, golly, thanks!

        I definitely get that straight options are becoming way less common for lower (and even mid) level workers. But this plan seemed particularly crappy.

        1. Anonymous Agreements*

          On Friday I met with a counselor who is a Licensed Social Worker to discuss my feeling depressed about my frustrating job search. She says she uses traditional Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. I felt like we really connected. The counselor talked about how older people are often treated like they’re invisible. (She told me about an episode of “Grace and Frankie” where one of the characters stole cigarettes from a store and no one noticed. I’ve heard about the show and it sounds good, but I’ve never seen it.)

          I really felt better after talking with her, but she recommended a book and I feel slightly uncomfortable about it. The book is called “The Four Agreements,” by Don Miguel Ruiz. I was wondering if anyone here has ever read it and what they thought about it. It seems to have positive reviews, and some of them note that the theories espoused by Ruiz dovetail with CBT. But it also seems a bit new agey, based on ancient wisdom, and those kind of things make me feel a bit uncomfortable. Any opinions would be appreciated.

    2. CAA*

      I’ve never heard this variation on an ESPP before, or maybe they’re doing it as a kind of ESOP instead? The 10X that the company contributes will be taxable to the employee as ordinary income when the stock is purchased, so people will most likely have to sell the stock they just bought to cover those taxes. Employees will also be paying taxes on the 1.67% they are setting aside when it’s earned, not when the stock is purchased.

      I can picture a lot of people sticking around for 3 years and then resigning as soon as they get this bonus.

  110. Spider*

    The university I work at just had mandatory FERPA training (online) for all its employees, and I have a question/concern.

    According to the training, if we find a lost student ID card, we have to return the card to the Card Office, as it would be a FERPA violation for us to email the student directly to let them know we have their ID.

    …WTF. Is this for real a legit FERPA violation?

    I work in a small subject library (think Engineering Library), located in the Engineering Building, where Engineering students spend 90% of their lives and would sleep and eat here if they could. If one of them drops their student ID card in the library:

    *our jobs in the library involves contacting students by email regarding library material or reference questions, and all the info we need to know their email address is on their ID card, and

    *it is pretty freaking inconvenient to drop the ID card off at the Card Office when:
    ***odds are very high that the student is somewhere in the building or will soon return to the building
    ***the Card Office is located in a building that’s a 15-minute walk away — we’re seriously supposed to take 30+ minutes of work time to walk the card over and come back (and ask the student to take 30+ minutes to pick it up), when we could write an email in less than a minute and have the student come by for their card in between classes?

    This seems ludicrous to me.

    1. Anon From Here*

      The ID itself contains Personally Identifiable Information that you are not supposed to have. The longer you keep it, the more opportunities there are for even more people to access the PII who shouldn’t: your co-workers, maybe, or the “friend” who comes by and says, “Oh, no worries, that’s my best friend, I’ll be happy to return their ID next time I see them.” So even though you obtained it inadvertently, the Card Office wants to reduce the risk that any PII is released next to zero, they want you to return the ID to an office where there are personnel who are explicitly allowed to have access to it.

      1. wingmaster*

        I worked on a college campus as an RA. Similar to this situation, if a parent or friend came to visit someone at the dorms, they asked me where this student is. I cannot disclose this information because I technically don’t know who this person is. What I could do is tell the student something like, “Hey your mom came to tell me she’s been trying to call you, and you should give her a call back.” So yeah, it’s sometimes inconvenient, but it’s all to reduce risks.

    2. Anonymeece*

      I work at a community college library, and if we receive a lost ID card, we look their information up in the system and let them know. (If they don’t get back to us, it gets turned into the police lost & found).

      We’ve never been told that’s a violation of FERPA, and quite frankly, it doesn’t really sound right to me. I’ve done FERPA trainings and that doesn’t really mesh with anything I can think of. As long as you’re using their school email and information, then it should be fine. You obviously wouldn’t contact a friend or something for it, but I think your school is misinterpreting (over-interpreting?) FERPA.

    3. Susan K*

      I don’t know anything about FERPA other than what I just read on the first couple of Google hits, but this doesn’t pass the sniff test. Does this rule only apply to student ID cards, or if you found, say, a student’s driver’s license, would you have to take that to the card office, too? My (admittedly limited understanding) of FERPA is that it prohibits release of students’ information by the school to third parties, but if the student dropped the ID card, it’s not the school’s fault. Plus, giving the lost card back to the student to whom it belongs doesn’t constitute releasing it to a third party, nor does emailing the student to notify him or her that you have the ID. I just don’t see how it’s any different for the card office to return the card to the student than for a library employee to do so.

    4. Jerry Vandesic*

      What they are doing with this policy is to encourage employees to leave a lost ID card sitting on the floor. Do not pick it up. Do not try to get the ID back to the student.

    5. Rosemary7391*

      Can you call the card office to come and pick it up instead? Won’t solve the problem for your students, but when the card office ends up employing someone(s) full time to collect these cards it’ll make the cost far more visible and hopefully reintroduce sanity.

      Alternatively can the students mysteriously develop a habit of always dropping their cards in front of your desk and conveniently find them when you email them about something totally unrelated? Check with your boss how they want you to handle it. Maybe they have some traction to get something reasonable sorted, like a few more designated points for card return across campus.

        1. Annie Moose*

          It’s really common in Indian business English! Just means “do what’s necessary/please take care of this/etc.”.

      3. Lissa*

        I love “please advise” for some reason, but “do the needful” makes me think the person is trying to give a euphemism for using the washroom.

        2. Teapot librarian*

          I had someone ask me once where he could “dispose of solid waste.” He did not mean “where is the trash can.”

    3. Gaia*

      I only use it when I am livid about a situation but can’t actually write “why couldn’t these people just do their freaking job”

      Which is probably why I hate it when I see it….

      1. Rat Racer*

        Yes! It definitely has that connotation. Sometimes the word “Please” makes an email less rather than more polite. I prefer “What do you think?” or “Let me know how you want to move forward”

        1. BRR*

          I use the same phrases. It might not be the phrase itself as much as when I’ve seen it used it’s usually someone with no initiative sending an email that dumps pieces of unorganized information in a pile on your doorstep and ends with please advise.

      2. LQ*

        Yeah, I would assume it meant, “You’re screwing everything up, what the hell are you doing to fix it already?!”

        I think I’ve only had it aimed at me once, and the person was trying to imply that, but I was doing my job, it just meant not responding to them longer than they’d have liked in this case. I’m fine with it meaning that, but if you aren’t using it to mean that, then maybe don’t use it. It’s been coopted.

      3. Quackeen*

        And as I saw on Facebook a while back, “‘As per my previous email’ is office-speak for “read your frickin’ email, b!tch!”

    6. AnotherJill*

      I used to have a student who would send email with a question and the email invariably ended with “Please advise.” It took all I had to not respond each time with random advice like “buy low, sell high”.

    7. Weak Trees*

      You’re so wrong – there is absolutely nothing irrational about that hatred.

      In my office, “Please advise” is code for “Someone’s asking me a thing, I don’t understand the thing, I’m too lazy to look into the thing, I don’t know what needs to be done about the thing, and I remember your name, so you figure it out for me.”

      Flames.

    8. Hamburke*

      It just sounds so…passive agressive! Like “this is totally your job. Why aren’t you doing it?”

  112. AnonandAnon*

    Just learned today that the HR manager knows all about my crappy co-worker because he worked on her computer but basically did nothing with it and gave it back to her. When I got it today to do something with it, I noticed it was not right and had the hardware guy look at/fix it in about two minutes. Just goes to show, yet again, how useless crappy co-worker is, yet no one can make the decision to get rid of him. The rest of the team does the majority of the work, and we work around him at other times because he can’t be trusted to complete a task. Tasks that should take minutes take him days…!

  113. Fake Old Converse Shoes (not in the US)*

    Massive thanks to the person who recommended Mr Number. The annoying recruiter agency is still calling me, and I’m really tempted to follow someone who publicly call them out via Linkedin, and ask them to remove me from their database once and for all.
    On the bad side, this is the second month in a row that accounting fails to pay me properly. I’m trying really hard not to get into Hulk mode, but it’s not working so far.

  114. Spooky*

    Asking for a coworker:
    We have excellent health insurance in the NY/NJ area. My colleague, Stella, is a married lesbian. Her wife, Luna, is lovely, and is on Stella’s health insurance plan. They have been married for a while now and want to have a baby through IVF. They would like to have Luna carry the baby for many reasons, but most importantly that Stella has had several major health problems as a result of a previous car accident (which resulted in major surgery) and has fibroids that will prevent her from carrying full term.

    However, Stella found out yesterday that the insurance company is refusing to pay for the treatment unless Stella carries the baby, not Luna. This would require Stella to have ANOTHER surgery (to remove the fibroids), aggravate scar tissue, etc.

    What are her rights in this situation? Is the health company really allowed to determine which partner carries the baby? It feels like discrimination, but I admit that I don’t know very much about this sort of thing. Any help is much appreciated.

    1. Gaia*

      That really doesn’t seem like that can be acceptable. It isn’t like she is asking her insurance to pay for a surrogate. She is asking her insurance to pay for her wife (who is covered by the insurance!) to receive benefits for a covered treatment.

    2. The Ginger Ginger*

      Yeah I feel pretty gross about this. If Stella were a man, would they cover the wife getting treatment or are married men in the company not eligible for this benefit? If the answer is that men working for the company can access this benefit on their wife’s behalf, and the wife who does not work at the company is the one carrying the baby….I’d be raising some holy hell over it. Is there HR? Are they reasonable? Can Stella ask them to intervene? Will they? Or is this coming from HR somehow?

      1. Jadelyn*

        I doubt it’s coming from HR – this kind of thing is an issue with the decisions the insurance hands down, not anything HR would have any say into. We’ve only got control over who’s on the policy and what it covers in general terms, not how the policy is used or specific coverages for individual employees.

        Now, depending on how closely your HR works with their broker and/or the insurer directly, they might be able to advocate for her to a limited degree. If you’ve got a dedicated benefits admin, I might suggest talking to that person and seeing if they have any contacts at either the broker or the insurer they can reach out to about clarifying the coverage parameters, especially wrt the question you’ve posed here about an employee’s wife being eligible for that benefit.

        1. The Ginger Ginger*

          Yeah this was what I was thinking. Whether HR could advocate on behalf of the employee with the benefits provider. Because this really is absurd.

    3. Anon From Here*

      I’d follow the procedure that the health insurance company lays out for reconsidering/challenging decisions. I’d also contact the state insurance commissioner, or whatever state agency is relevant, for guidance.

    4. Jadelyn*

      Wow. Yeah that seems to be discrimination – unless your policy only covers IVF for employees directly, and not for their spouses, such that a male employee with a female partner covered on his insurance would be ineligible for IVF benefits, this seems to be pretty clear-cut discrimination based on her sexual orientation and the gender of the employee.

      She should file an appeal with the insurer, and contact her state’s insurance commission for information on filing a complaint.

    5. CAA*

      Stella needs to talk to your company’s benefits administrator and she needs to make sure she understands the denial and the reasoning behind it.

      If your company is self-insured, then they do not have to cover pregnancy. I think they could say they cover it for employees but not spouses; but if they do cover it for men’s spouses, then they have to cover it for her spouse as well. Self-insured companies probably also do not have to cover the costs of IVF in NJ (they definitely do not in NY).

      If your company is fully insured, then they must cover pregnancy as mandated by ACA, unless they have one of the very few grandfathered plans that has never covered it. Policies for fully insured companies must also cover the costs of IVF as mandated by NJ law. NY law does not require coverage for IVF costs, and NJ law has exceptions for maternal age and some other conditions. If Luna is older but Stella falls in the covered age bracket, then yes, the insurance company gets to say they won’t cover Luna but will cover Stella for IVF, but they still have to cover either of them once they actually get pregnant.

    6. Temperance*

      Your friend should call the Lesbian and Gay Bar Association of Greater New York. They do some work in NJ even though they are based in NY, and they have undoubtedly seen this before. Sad how insidious homophobia can be.

      1. EddieSherbert*

        +100000 to “if they do cover it for men’s spouses, then they have to cover it for her spouse as well.”

    7. BRR*

      Ugh. As other’s mentioned, first Stella needs to find out why it is being denied (and the denial makes no sense but that’s health insurance for you). I can see two different roads: 1) Stella can say it’s a discriminatory policy and hope this scares the company to quickly changing its mind or 2) I’m wondering if Stella can pursue it as a medical issue. I would guess they have a procedure for appealing which I imagine involves paperwork documenting her medical history that would justify Luna receiving the treatment. Either way it’s going to suck and I’m so sorry.

      As others suggested, if Stella has a good HR/benefits person she should bring this up to them if she feels comfortable.

  115. Jadelyn*

    I could use some help with scripts – this is going to be a long post, sorry in advance. TL;DR: my boss is causing drama, both professional and interpersonal, with two of our team, and my grandboss is brushing it off when the two coworkers try to talk to him about Boss’s behavior. I want to speak up, to Grandboss or Boss or both, and hope that maybe my status as a relatively neutral party will help them realize that it’s really not just personal bitterness on the part of my coworkers but a real issue with Boss’s behavior. I could use advice on how to frame these conversations and how to approach them.

    Issue A: Boss complained to me the other day that she’s “sensing some hard energy” on the team. I don’t know how to gently explain to her that it’s because she’s gotten progressively more micromanage-y and controlling over the past year and we all resent it/have started trying to handle stuff without telling her til after the fact because every time she gets wind of ANYTHING potentially not going perfectly, no matter how minor, she turns it into a major crisis. She’s also had some personal falling-outs with two of the four of her reports, and she honestly seems to have zero respect for one of them in particular – she’ll make snarky comments about that coworker, let’s call her Hermione, to me or to others, the kind of comments that are on the surface just affectionate teasing but there’s an edge when she says them that tells me it’s not just teasing. For example, Boss, myself, Hermione, and Ginny (another member of our team) traveled for work last week, and in the airport waiting for our flight, I was sitting with Boss while the other two were sitting at seats they’d been able to find a little ways away. We could hear Hermione and Ginny talking and laughing about something. Boss said quietly to me, “You know, I kept thinking all weekend leading up to this trip, like it was a nightmare that kept occurring to me…we’re going to be on this flight, and I’m going to hear Hermione’s laugh from all the way across the plane. There’s just no escaping it! And it’s already starting!” And she laughed, like it was funny. I replied “Wow, that’s actually pretty mean,” and she just said “I know, and if I’m wrong I will apologize to the universe for thinking that, but it’s still true!” I didn’t feel like I could call her out more than that in the moment so I let it go, but it upset me – and it’s stuff like that, once or twice a week, consistently.

    That’s the personal issues. As far as the professional issues, she literally finds excuses to come into our offices every time there’s a conversation between her reports happening, so she can insert herself into the conversation, like she doesn’t trust us to just talk to each other without her present. When a single insignificant thing goes wrong or a mistake is made, suddenly she’s throwing her weight around and demanding we all reevaluate our processes and make up new processes for how to do things going forward – and I really do mean small, insignificant, “we’re all human” types of mistakes that happen once or twice a year and cause minimal to no actual harm to anything, just a bit of inconvenience or delay, but she freaks out on us anyway. She completely blew her lid a few months ago when Hermione and I had been working on an annual project that has always been ours with zero involvement from her, the project hit a major snag right before deadline, we were under pressure, it was late in the day, and Boss wasn’t there, so we talked with Grandboss and got his okay for our proposed workaround to make sure it was still done by the deadline. First thing the following morning, Boss came into my office and screamed at me – literally, raised voice angry yelling – for not getting her okay before we moved forward with the workaround. I was completely blindsided, since 1: she has never been directly involved with any stage or any part of this project in the past, so I had no reason to assume she’d want or need to get involved with it this year, and she hadn’t said anything about it; and 2: we had gotten Grandboss’s okay, which to me is an override vote. If I’ve got Grandboss signing off on something, I’m going to take that as sufficient to move forward, I’m not going to waste time getting a redundant signoff from someone who Grandboss has authority over anyway, when we’ve got a hard deadline we’re scrambling to meet. But she was furious and spent a good half hour yelling at me about it.

    The strange thing is, she hasn’t always been like this. I’ve worked under her for almost four years now, and for the first couple years things were really good! But now…everything is the end of the world, we can barely take a step without getting her okay on it or getting screamed at for not keeping her informed because we did a thing (a normal, routine thing, done according to our regular processes, which we do all the time and have done for years without needing anyone overseeing it before) and then mentioned it to her later rather than making sure she was involved from the very beginning. And it’s set up a bad spiral where we avoid involving her because we don’t want to deal with the manufactured crisis that will result if she gets involved, she feels cut out of things and the freakouts get even more intense, so we make even more of an effort to work around her to avoid her freakouts, she feels cut out, etc. It’s Bad, and I don’t know how to get it to stop short of willingly turning our work lives into a constant parade of crises to assuage her need to feel included and involved.

    Issue B: I also need help figuring out how to get Grandboss to take this seriously. Hermione and Ginny have both tried to talk to him about this, but he’s brushed them off. He and Boss have worked together at different companies for over 10 years and they’re close friends outside of work as well, plus it was Hermione and Ginny that Boss had the personal falling-out with. So he keeps insisting that the problem isn’t Boss, it’s Hermione and Ginny, and they just need to learn to get along. If pushed, he gets dramatic about how he’s going to get fired because his team can’t get along with each other.

    I’m hoping that, because we’re reorganizing the department and I’m going to report to him directly in a couple months, and we’ve always worked very well together, he might listen to me if I bring it to him. I’m worried he might then lump me in with Hermione and Ginny as the source of the drama, and that he’ll tell Boss I talked to him and she’ll start treating me like she treats those two (plus I’ll lose my source of information, since currently Boss still trusts me and will talk to me about her frustrations with the other two, which is valuable since it lets me hear both sides) – but things are not getting better, and I feel like if I don’t speak up it’ll get worse and Boss/Grandboss will continue to be able to brush it off as Hermione and Ginny being personally bitter toward Boss rather than seeing that Boss has an actual issue with the way she’s managing. I’m a lot more neutral and I’m very much known, to my team, for being Switzerland in any drama, so maybe that’ll help it carry more weight if I do speak up and get involved.

    But gods, where do I even start? What do I say? How do I explain this without coming off as overdramatic or accusatory or whatever else?

    1. The Ginger Ginger*

      Can you address it sort of sideways by going to him about the way Boss screamed at you? Like – remind GBoss of the incident then let him know that it resulted in Boss literally screaming at you for over half an hour. Say you were blindsided at the time, and weren’t sure what to do in the moment, then ask what action you should take/are empowered to take in that situation going forward since you’ve noticed that this is becoming a trend with her lately. With the undertone that OF COURSE any reasonable person does not want to be screamed at while at work and this is totally unacceptable behavior and GBoss should recognize that.

      Start planting seeds with your direct experiences so you can introduce doubt about boss’s behavior in general?

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Fight the part of the battle that is yours to fight.
      Typically when a person advocates for others (who are not advocating for themselves) what happens is that person gets bit by it all. Don’t get so immersed that you get bit and they end up all being best buds.

      The one thing I would say to the boss is “If this problem involved three men, would your answer still be the same?”
      In the end you will have to show how it impacts the work in order to get the bosses to move on it. In your description here that part is missing. It sounds like everyone is concerned about being pals, and not focused on the work.

  116. Cheese Boat*

    I have been looking forward to the Friday open thread since yesterday! Several of the large projects I (data analyst in academia) have been working on for my office as a whole have sort-of fallen through recently, despite my best efforts. One, a move to the Cloud for all members of our group, has not gone very smoothly because of limited functionality of Office Online (side note: does anyone else have experience with this they can attest to??). We had a lengthy vetting period that included pretty much all members of the office but we trusted the word of the IT department when they said things would function well and the transfer would go smoothly, neither of which occurred. I am not an IT person and have done my best, but I feel like I have failed even though this isn’t exactly my wheelhouse and many elements of this were out of my control.

    The other is that I implemented a requesting system for administrating one area of my responsibilities, and someone went above me to complain about it because they don’t understand why it is necessary. Now we are considering only having half of our office use this request system, which I was asked by my bosses to implement. This has potential to complicate my work, especially if people are poking around in things that I am supposedly the “gatekeeper” of. I am stressed that this will be counted as another botched implementation.

    My main worry is that people are seeing this as reflecting super poorly on me, even though I feel like some of the push-back is just people resisting change. I’ve only been at my job a little over 6 months and this week it feels like everything has caught fire. Help! Will everything be okay? How much of a pickle am I in?

    1. Jadelyn*

      Get your bosses involved in the request system thing IMMEDIATELY. If they asked you to implement it, they should be championing it to higher levels of management for you. They should also be able to lend you their authority to tell people “this is how it is now” rather than letting people use it if they want to or not if they don’t.

  117. Alex*

    So I recently quit my job to relocate with my partner. I haven’t found a job in my field in this new town yet. I have a bit of problem with imagination. I am open to any number of new work experiences, but I can only visualize myself doing what I’ve done before. Are there are tools or techniques to help expand my thinking? Maybe part of it is lack of confidence that I could be a [insert job title], but I think it’s mostly that I can’t see myself doing anything different. Help?

    1. Anna Held*

      Take a look at O*net (onetonline.org) They have lots of job descriptions, skills needed for different jobs, related jobs, etc. It’s a good tool.

  118. Nant*

    Yo, does any one know how to identify whether two advertisments by two recruitment agencies are for the same job? I’ve applied for a job via one agency, but there’s a similar job available from another agency, and I’m not certain if they’re for the same role. Neither ad give company details, but they’re in the same area with the same kind of work and similar pay (one was £20k, the other £18-£22k). How do you tell the difference, and how bad would it look if I applied with the second agency and it was the same role advertised by the first?

    1. Anon From Here*

      If there aren’t enough clues in what you have in front of you, then you can’t be expected to tell if it’s one job or two jobs. I’d apply for both, using an identical CV but reasonably different cover letter (if at all possible). The worst result is that your resume crosses a single employer’s desk twice.

    2. Jadelyn*

      I mean, if they’re not disclosing what the company name is on either ad, I don’t see how anyone could hold it against you for applying to both. They’re separate ads, from separate agencies, so it seems eminently reasonable to me to apply to both.

      As far as how to tell if they’re actually for the same role – first question I’d ask is, how big is that industry in that area? One or two companies of that type, or dozens? If there’s only a couple of companies doing that work in that location, it’s a higher likelihood of being the same job; if there are a ton of similar companies, there could be half a dozen of them posting for that sort of opening at any given time. Does the verbiage in the two ads match up or parallel very strongly? “Same kind of work” isn’t necessarily indicative of anything – if we post for an HR Generalist, and another company posts for an HR Generalist, it’ll be for the same kind of work most likely; doesn’t mean it’s actually the same position. But if the language in the posting matches up with each other to a high degree, it’s possible.

    3. Undine*

      Usually (at least in the U.S.), if you apply through an agency, they contact you first and discuss the position with you before contacting the employer. And they usually disclose the name of the company before submitting your resume to the employer.

      You do not want to have your resume reach the employer twice from two different agencies, because that could raise doubts about who gets the commission. However, agencies know this and work with this situation all the time. So apply to both, tell them you applied to a position that might be the same one and you need to know more.

  119. Nopayraiseinsight*

    What are some things people have negotiated for besides a pay raise? Extra points for uncommon things beyond just more PTO.

    1. Escape the dead end!!!*

      this was offered to me, not negotiated, but: quarterly bonus that is a percentage of the company’s profits. I think it was because my boss felt he could not afford to give me any more hourly raises and % of profits means it’s sort of inherently affordable. This is at a tiny small business for context.

    2. Antilles*

      Here’s the most oddball I’ve seen people negotiate:
      1.) Company pays more of the health care premiums than standard – a normal employee might pay $50 a pay period, this guy was only paying $30. Effectively, it’s a raise, but since it’s not actually in the weekly budget, it didn’t count in the company’s ‘allowable salary range’ for the position. It struck me as a clever (but tenuous) way to increase his take-home pay.
      2.) Flex time. Not unique in and of itself, but this was some massive flexing – like an office where everybody was normally 9 to 5, this employee worked 6 am to 2 pm so she didn’t have to worry about an after-school program/child sitter.
      3.) Two trips a year in the corporate jet…for a junior employee – like “the ink on his diploma might not be dry yet” level. This request actually just kept getting kicked further and further up the chain because nobody actually had the power to approve it, but it was odd enough that nobody felt secure in straight up refusing since the question had never been raised before. So the hiring manager pushed it up to his boss who pushed it up to the department head who pushed it up to the division manager who pushed it up to the entire Board of Directors. Still have no idea why they bothered for such a junior employee.

      1. EddieSherbert*

        I did something like #2 at a former job (not for a specific reason like picking up children though)! It was glorious. I’d finish my work day and basically have the whole afternoon still. The job was TERRIBLE though…

    4. Sloan Kittering*

      One thing I have never seem successfully negotiated (but always seems to come up as a suggestion) is vacation time. I did once see someone negotiate out of the first year probationary vacation rate – they were very senior – but it seems like the companies I’ve known all have a standard vacation policy they’re not open to negotiating. Maybe smaller orgs have more flexibility?

      1. Antilles*

        The only times I’ve seen it work is when people initially ask for more money but get turned down for budgetary reasons, THEN ask for more vacation time – so they get it as a sort of “well, my hands were tied on the budget but sure, I can at least say yes to that”.

      2. The New Wanderer*

        I know someone who successfully pushed back on the original offer of 12 days of PTO (sick + vacation) and asked for 15 at a minimum. The HR person initially said 10 days was their standard offer (which is pretty low compared to other similar companies in this area) so 12 was already an increase to reflect his level. But the candidate pushed back and said he would be leaving a job with 15 PTO days + unlimited unpaid time off as an option (which is far more in line with benefits at his level at most companies), and not only did he get the 15 but HR said they were going to make 15 the new standard.

        However, I have never had the option to negotiate vacation time. The handful of very large companies I’ve worked for have strict vacation-by-seniority levels, which, fortunately, have been relatively generous compared to the minimum US requirements.

      3. Not a Mere Device*

        When Microsoft bought my spouse’s start-up, he successfully negotiated for vacation time based on his seniority at the startup rather than his time on the Microsoft payroll. Microsoft being Microsoft, he had trouble taking all of it at the time, but got it in cash when he left a couple of years later.

    5. EddieSherbert*

      Working from home two days per week – the company does have some remote employees, and allows work from home for bad weather or illness, but it’s not typical for the regular staff to have a set schedule that includes working from home.

    7. jraz*

      Vacation time up front. A slight variation of more PTO. I got 2 weeks at my start date and accrued PTO as usual.

      I’ve also negotiated for a credit of years (more years towards your retirement/pension), company car, better office, and paid professional memberships. (Not all at the same job;)

    8. Jerry Vandesic*

      1) Negotiated $600 in extra pay per month to cover the cost of additional insurance that would bring new employers insurance coverage up to the level of old employer. They agreed to do this for 24 months.

      2) Negotiated a full years worth of vacation (4 weeks), even though I started mid-year. I was able to take my full summer vacation, as well as roll over five days to the next year.

      3) Negotiated a combination of cash + stock to make up for the loss of unvested stock that was forfeited when I left old employer. Both companies were public, so the value of the stock was well defined.

      4) Negotiated new employer to pay the cost of selling my house. This is not all that unusual, but what made it unusual was that my house was a multi-family, and the normal way of handling the sale (new employer buys the house and then sells it and pays the brokerage costs) wouldn’t work for some (IRS?) reason. So I paid the brokerage costs myself, the company reimbursed my costs, and grossed them up to cover the taxes I had to pay on their reimbursement. The amount they ended up paying me was more than my annual salary.

  120. Jenna Maroney*

    Is there any way for our team to politely bring up our concerns with the hiring process to our new manager? There’s a serious competency gap between candidates, and it’s making work more difficult. Essentially, they just need to fit slots and don’t screen well enough. How do we bring this up with her, if we can at all?

    1. Bibiddy*

      I would try going to her as a team (or having someone speak on behalf of the team) and ask if you could have some input on the hiring process. Say that you’ve all been thinking about some of the skills/experience in a new employee that would really help the team because they are crucial skills / it would fill a gap in the collective team knowledge / whatever and give her a short list (probably no more than 3 things) of the most important criteria. If she’s really new, you can frame it as ” these are some things you may not have had time to learn about us as a group” or “we’re trying to make your job easier because we know you have a lot on your plate” to soften the blow.

      1. Jenna Maroney*

        The thing is, it’s not skills. It’s basic intelligence and maturity. They can’t attract high quality candidates with their awful pay, benefits, etc. I can’t teach someone how to be smart.

    2. Jadelyn*

      Do you have regular check-ins with your manager? That would be a good time to talk to her about how training the new hires has been going. Focus on how bringing in people who lack the necessary KSAs is hampering the whole team because you have to spend your time teaching and training on the basics first and that’s time that isn’t being spent on doing the work itself. Point out if this has been a pattern with multiple hires, since that broadens it from being one bad hire to an issue with the hiring and vetting process itself. If there are instances where a new hire’s lacking skills caused an issue for you – like, you needed Fergus to do the TPS report for you so you could move forward on your project, but he didn’t know how to do a TPS report so it took three times as long as it should have and put you behind schedule – tell your manager about that, too.

      1. Jenna Maroney*

        No, they’re not interested in talking to the staff. Too busy trying to look like they’re getting things done so they don’t lose the contract in a month.

        1. Jadelyn*

          Oookay, yeah, between this and your response to Bibiddy, it sounds like this just falls into “your boss sucks and isn’t going to change” category. If their mentality is “look busy and put cheap bodies in seats!” there’s unfortunately not much you can do about that.

          1. Jenna Maroney*

            BLERGH!!!

            This is part of a larger issue the contractor company has faced in relation to the hedge fund. The contractor company has been making us do these time wasting “white glove service” training sessions where we’re lectured about our clothes, which words to use and which not to use, how we can’t eat at our desk, etc. Basically treating grown women like stupid teenager under the guise of “this is what the client wants!!” The thing is… it’s not what the client wants. The RA’s and EA’s have made it perfectly clear what they want: a dedicated, intelligent reception team with a low turnover rate. Problem is, the contractor company is unable/unwilling to provide what the client ACTUALLY wants because that would mean they’d have to pay us a decent salary and give us flexibility and better benefits along with a more stable and (frankly) competent environment, aka the exact thing that good employees (that the clients want!) want and will find in other companies. It’s infuriating!!!

            1. Jenna Maroney*

              To demonstrate how stupid and rules lawyer-y this place is: I had a coworker who had a stern talking to for the way she spoke to an employee. What was the employee doing? Shoving metal tongs into a plugged-in toaster. Her tone was “sharp” because the guy was about to electrocute himself.

              1. Jenna Maroney*

                This is so frustrating. They’re also not telling the new hires that the contract is up for renewal in a month and if it’s not renewed (none of us think it will be considering how friggin’ incompetent they are), we’ll all be placed at different locations, most likely with a lower salary. This company SUUUUCKS.

                (I’m so sorry. I’m job searching and in the meantime REALLY need to vent. BLERGHGHGHGHGHGHGHGH)

  121. Escape the dead end!!!*

    Help me brainstorm future jobs or fields! I need a big change that includes semi-regular hours and actual benefits! By semi-regular I mean consistent I mean actually full time, all year ’round, and working Saturday and/or Sunday is the exception not the rule.

    – I love doing short term research or fact-finding missions
    – Related: I love finding what’s broken or wrong with something (physical thing, data, work process failure, etc)

    – 10 year old STEM degree, but only 3 years of related experience right after graduation – some coding but not software dev
    – 5 years in an awesome but ultimately dead-end skilled labor/customer service field, 2 years service industry

    1. Kitty*

      Look out for any job descriptions with “sprint” – these are short, fact-finding idea development missions. Could be in a department called ‘Business change,’ ‘Business development’, ‘Change management’, that kind of thing.

      1. EddieSherbert*

        Thinking the same thing – consider “business analyst” as well!

        Or possibly something in Quality Assurance :)

    2. I guess I am a product owner*

      Hello! I am a process specialist/product owner, and you have described my job. Look for big companies that need internal liaisons between their non-technical staff and the IT managing the software and software-related processes they use internally.

    3. Anon. Anon.*

      Try technical support or technical training at a small software company. (I’ve had that job or similar ones for years, and your background is perfect for it.) Your customer service skills would be extremely relevant, and you’d be finding what’s broken or wrong with people’s software, hardware, and business processes. Small companies can’t pay as much for staff as big companies, so they are willing to take people who may have unusual backgrounds. My only caveat – think of a good reason for going back to tech – for example, being a river guide was fulfilling because you got to work with people, but you realize that you want to do more problem-solving type work.)

    4. Cedrus Libani*

      Lab tech / facilities person? I did that for a few years before going back for my PhD. I was employed by an academic department, spending about half-time doing specific lab grunt work for the department chair’s lab, and the other half-time fixing whatever needed fixing – from basic IT help-desk stuff to setting up a new core facility.

      The hours were regular, though sometimes there would be a late-night emergency (e.g. a lab freezer goes down). Pay wasn’t great, but the benefits were good, and it was full-time salaried work.

  122. Kitty*

    Do I need to reply after my horrible ex reached out on LinkedIn?
    10 years ago I left a relationship with a horrible person. Long story, but I was young and spent 2 years feeling mostly confused, manipulated, and hurt by his actions. Looking back I think he was a sociopath – he had no concept of right or wrong, no sense of remorse when his (clearly wrong!) actions had a negative impact on others, and didn’t really seem to have emotions. Over the past 7-8 years he’s periodically tried to weasel his way back in contacting me on social media and he’s now blocked across all my social media. He’s now contacted me on LinkedIn!!? He’s added a new level by saying his company could work with my employer. This is unlikely, but not impossible, which makes it harder to ignore. Am I professionally obligated to respond? Any other form of contact I would ignore, but I want to be professional here. I guess I could reply and say I’ll pass on his interest to the relevant person? I just don’t want to end up in a dialogue :( I’m worried if I ignore him though and he does end up working with my employer, he could mention he’d tried to contact the organisation previously and been ignored, which would make me look unprofessional. I don’t know what to do and have been worrying about this all week.

    3. Undine*

      Someone is being unprofessional here and it is not you. If he genuinely wanted to work with your employer, he would try to contact them via an actual friend or business connection, not through a person who has consistently blocked him on all other channels.

      And you are never obliged to pass on a resume or contact request. You are much worse off if you do pass it on and then later his sociopathy makes the connection go down in flames. Alison’s general stance on referrals is that you should never pass on someone you don’t personally feel you could strongly endorse. In this case, he might be good at his job, but you have strong reason to doubt his business ethics.

      Worst case, he does get a foothold and tries to blame you for something (unlikely, but you’re worrying about it). Fine, you just look him (or whoever brings it up to you) in the eye, and tell a story about something he did to someone else that you were aware of, and say you didn’t want to pass on the contact info of someone like that.

      You have nothing to be ashamed of. You have done nothing wrong. The truth is on your side.

      1. Kitty*

        Thank you, that’s an excellent point! He’s been in the business for years now and would definitely know the proper ways to approach prospective clients.

    5. AnonandAnon*

      You are not professionally obligated to respond to him, he is probably just baiting you to get a rise out of you. Block him and move on, nothing to see here…

      1. The New Wanderer*

        Exactly – he’s trying to lure you into contacting him on “professional” grounds. It’s just a manipulation. Ignore and block.

    7. LCL*

      I ignore people on linked in all the time. If I responded to all of my linked in contacts I would be spending hours every week on it.

    8. Kitty*

      Thanks everyone for the input. I wasn’t sure of LinkedIn norms as I don’t use it much. I will now confidently go forth to block and ignore!

  123. VM*

    About 2 weeks ago, one of my coworkers just walked out. We knew he was dissatisfied with pay but he neither quit nor was let go. We weren’t sure what was going on because the managers were gone but we got a little more information this week. He told the manager in a meeting prior to walking out either they promote him and give him a raise for doing the work of a teapot designer 2 (he was promised 6 months ago they would adjust the pay) or he was going leave until they reassigned him only teapot designer 1 work. Earlier this week, the director met with his manager and signed the piece of paper to give him the teapot designer 2 promotion with pay but he’s still mulling over the possibility of returning.
    As someone who is also working at a higher level than my pay and title suggests, this rubs me all sorts of the wrong way. My manager has been working hard to lobby to the director and HR for months to secure a promotion for me and while it’s currently in the works for next year, it isn’t a done deal yet. Do these sorts of big dramatic walk outs usually work to get what you want?

    1. Jadelyn*

      They can – but there’s a danger in the company responding the wrong way and just letting you go instead. Never do something like that as a bluff. If you’re really willing to lose your job over it, sure, try the dramatic approach, but it’s the same reason why it’s not usually a good idea to try to secure a raise by bringing a job offer to the table and demanding they match it, because they might just say “sorry, we can’t match that, when is your last day going to be?”

      I would also worry that a company that only follows through on appropriate promotions and comp adjustments when their hand is forced, is not a functional company you want to be working for.

      1. VM*

        As much as I like my job and my coworkers, I can see that while this doesn’t look good on my coworker, it reflects much more poorly on my employer. We haven’t heard from our coworker (he won’t text us back) so there may be more to the story than what we know. I would seek employment elsewhere before pulling a move like this but it’s frustrating all around.

    2. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      Noooooooooooo. That would most likely get you fired. Don’t take him as an example.

    3. MissDisplaced*

      In my experience grandstanding tactics don’t work. A lot of companies operate on the ‘everyone is replaceable’ theory. But it depends on how hard it is to fill that position and the state of the labor market in general. And even if you get your way and get the increase, who would want to come back under those circumstances?
      And as Jadelyn says, would you really respect a company that does this on a regular basis?

  124. Rebecca*

    Work things that make me say Huh??

    Our company’s email server seems to have a mind of its own :) We use Microsoft Office/Outlook.

    I order office supplies, and use one company for toner. That’s it. I’ve white listed them, said “no, this isn’t junk”, “please don’t block sender”, everything but “for the love of all that’s holy, please let these emails through”, but…at least once per week the emails from this company end up in quarantine. So lather, rinse, repeat…until the next week.

    But, we are still subjected to the fake Microsoft 365 phishing scams, fake emails from coworkers with attachments, and other obvious spam. For some reason the system can’t weed these out, but OMG MY TONER EMAILS ARE DANGEROUS!!

    And ditto one of my long term customers, bless them, I’ve dealt with them for 14 years, but several times a year, all their emails get quarantined.

    There is literally no rhyme or reason to this.

    1. There is a Life Outside the Library*

      I switched jobs this year and had not used Outlook for years. I really, really hate it.

    2. Jadelyn*

      Can you get your IT to whitelist things at a server level for you? Not something you want to do often or without careful consideration, but sometimes it’s worth it. We had to do that for the automated emails from our HRIS – it spoofs the “from” address on automated reports and alerts to be coming “from” the user who set up the report, but because it’s not actually originating on our email server, the IP doesn’t match the domain, and our system flags it as malicious. I had to work with our director of IT and the HRIS tech people to get whitelisting set up at the top level on the server, in order to get our alerts to go through.

    3. MissDisplaced*

      I used to have Outlook block emails from myself to myself!
      Essentially, it would block our own company.

    4. EvilQueenRegina*

      I have repeatedly blocked some company who send emails about irrelevant conferences, some strange newsletter called China Daily and some weird political newsletter from Australia (for those who don’t know, I actually live in England, so no idea why I get those). I keep sending them to block but every week they get through.

  125. Jessica Fletcher*

    Last week I gave notice at my terrible, dysfunctional workplace. The ED is mad/in crisis mode that I’m leaving (because I’m literally the only person working on a project that’s supposed to be 4 people, because she has refused to hire as others left). Next week is my last week. Here are some issues that came up just today:

    – She asked me to go to an evening event next week. The event is with local government officials. I replied that I’m not available in the evening next week, and I added that I think it’s better if an employee who is staying here goes, so they can introduce themselves and be a contact for these officials in the future. She was very snippy and pissed that I won’t go, and said “we just need a body.” Which is, of course, ridiculous.

    – She owes me a bonus check for August, which I was supposed to receive on August 31. The check is because I’ve been the interim program manager since my own supervisor left. She said I would get it today because the (part-time) accountant was coming in. Now she says the accountant is coming on Monday and she can’t write a check before then. Meanwhile, she expects me to continue managing the program (which means doing the job of 4 people, managing our 3 grant partner orgs, and completing complex reporting that only I am trained on.)

    I’m trying to ignore her snippy comments, but I’m going to stand firm on the check. If I don’t get the check on Monday, or if she tries to reduce the check from the agreed on amount, I’m going to leave on Monday. It will hurt the program and the org, and it will create so much more work for my coworker (who works on another program and is going to take over this entire program until they maybe finally hire someone new). But I have to stand up for myself. The ED is so abusive and shitty and is always mad and yelling. I’m finally getting out, and there is no incentive for me to endure her bullshit anymore.

      1. AdAgencyChick*

        Because it’s a bonus, not regular wages, I unfortunately think it might be legal for them to delay or even deny it.

        1. Jessica Fletcher*

          I clarified below that it is a wage payment, I’m just calling it a bonus check. When my supervisor, the program manager, left at the beginning of August, the ED asked me to take over the program manager duties. She agreed to pay me a certain amount per month, above my regular salary, for being the program manager.

          So, thanks, RickTq, I may do that if she continues to give me a hard time on monday.

    3. AdAgencyChick*

      Uh oh. I think you might not be getting your bonus check. I know a lot of people think of bonuses as rewards for work well done, but management thinks of them as retention tools. Now that they know you’re on your way out, all but the most upstanding managers are going to decide that that bonus money can be better spent elsewhere.

      Which is not to say that you wouldn’t be entirely justified in leaving on the spot if you’ve been told a bonus is coming and it doesn’t.

      1. Jessica Fletcher*

        I’m calling it a bonus check, but it’s payment for performing the manager duties. It’s a per-month, agreed on payment above my regular salary. I currently work at a tiny nonprofit. There are no actual bonuses.

  126. Clever Alias*

    I’ve posted a few times on this thread about my travails with terrible management and some deadweight employees I can’t get rid of because of terrible management. But! Good things. We are under new management and the deadweight is gone, freeing up some budget for new hires! Super excited to finally move in the right direction.

    Bad news: how do I defend why my team has been only marginally productive in the past two years without sounding like I’m whining/blaming others? To be frank: it’s a wonder we’ve been productive AT ALL.

    1. MissDisplaced*

      Do you have to defend?
      I’d acknowledge there were many challenges hindering productivity (without being specific), but your team is excited about the new management, new focus, new direction and positive attitude going forward.

  127. Janie*

    Much like a post the other day, I am having trouble with an employee who I like personally but whose work product is causing a strain. I’m an attorney and at our firm each legal assistant helps three or four attorneys. All three of the attorneys in my “group” are frustrated with our legal assistant, who has been with us for about 2 years.

    She has never been a stellar employee; when she first started, we were concerned about some careless mistakes, but she responded relatively well (she cried when talked to, but did listen and take it to heart). We all saw improvement, and we all really like her as a person.

    However, recently she seems to be backsliding with the careless errors, and her attitude has been less positive. Lots of snappy responses, complaints about having too much work etc.

    She is also absent A LOT. I have no doubt that she’s actually sick when she calls out, but I am frustrated that she doesn’t seem to try to do anything to fix her various ailments. For example: she doesn’t believe in Western medicine, so she refuses to take an antihistamine for her hay fever; she won’t go to the doctor despite being sick and having a cough for weeks; she has a sensitive stomach but isn’t careful at ALL about what she eats; and she seems to have a lot of family/personal drama at home that causes her not to sleep well so she never recovers quickly from colds. The health issues probably are the root cause of the performance issues, honestly.

    I’m not senior enough to be giving her a talking to, but one of the other attorneys in my group is. What can he say to her, if anything, about needing to take better care of her health? Or should it just be a conversation about her work quality and absenteeism, and the health part will be hers to deal with?

    1. Anon From Here*

      The conversation needs to center solely on how her work performance is not meeting the level that it needs to for her to continue in the job. Your and your colleagues’ views on her health need to stay out of it. Her absenteeism is a large part of how her performance is sub-par. But it doesn’t matter why she’s out. She’s out too much, and it means her work isn’t getting done properly.

      1. Bibiddy*

        I agree with this because, in theory, the way she treats (or rather, doesn’t treat) her health wouldn’t be an issue if she were performing well. Plus, trying to convince her to use a specific type of medical treatment is way over the line.

        1. Sloan Kittering*

          But do make sure that the colleague specifically states that she is out too much and its affecting her performance, which is going to cost her this job. That is a hard thing to say but you must be absolutely clear. Alison has scripts about the “out too much” conversation.

    2. She's One Crazy Diamond*

      If you didn’t work in the legal field I would swear you worked with me because we have someone almost exactly like that. Much sympathy. The only thing that seemed to work with my coworker is making it clear that they had to have good attendance for a period of time to keep their job (it’s very much a butt in seat position). Suddenly, the attendance problems disappeared.

    3. Dr. Doll*

      I would even be careful with absenteeism, depending upon what laws apply to your organization and what she’s done to take advantage of them. If for example she’s eligible for intermittent FMLA, and is using it for her absences, then you can’t complain about them.

      She sounds exactly like one of my team members. Nicest lady ever, but a total dingbat, and sick incredibly frequently (which is how I know about the FMLA thing). I feel for you, because this is hard — you have to keep detailed records of everything that goes wrong to build a case for letting go, which is just the most soul-sucking thing.

  128. How Does This Keep Happening?*

    Boss cancelled our 1-on-1 again. Supposed to be 2x/month but once in two months is more like it.

    This time, to add insult to injury, she sent an Outlook meeting request for the exact time that I predicted being back from a doctor appointment. I don’t anticipate it taking long, but seriously… there were dozens of other times she could have chosen. Is she hoping that I won’t be able to make it?

    I didn’t tell her the nature of the appointment, but it’s a periodontist and I will probably be numb and have difficulty talking. I don’t like taking time off for that because I don’t talk that much at work. Lesson learned. Next time I will block off the whole afternoon as being “busy.”

    1. Crylo Ren*

      Are you able to see her calendar? Maybe that was literally the only time that she was available?

      Unless you have other signs from your boss that point to her being especially petty, I wouldn’t jump right to assuming that she’s being malicious. I also don’t think there’s any harm in you giving her a heads up about the nature of your appointment so that she can find a different time, unless she’s proven herself to be unreasonable and exacting in other ways.

      I sympathize, because my boss does the same thing to me with our 1:1s…but, I also know that he is truly booked completely solid most days. I try to get around this by just sending him bullet points in email and working to catch him in those 5-10 minutes he is available. Still not ideal, but it’s better than nothing.

      1. How Does This Keep Happening?*

        Yes, I checked her calendar. That’s how I knew she had many other options.

        I literally have no idea what she’s doing when she has time blocked out. Yesterday there was no indication she’d have to cancel. Today her time is blocked out for the whole day. Her previous cancellation was on a day that she & I were also supposed to be in a rather important meeting where her boss would be. She cancelled, blocked out her calendar, and wasn’t at the meeting. The people I would expect her to be meeting with were literally all at this meeting she missed.

        On that day I decided to believe that she was meeting with a financial advisor to plan her retirement so she can retire before she writes my next performance evaluation. Those get postponed, too, and she waits until I accidentally do something wrong or annoying and then she schedules the evaluation meeting for the next day. Last year I swear she also wrote it on that day.

  129. Bibiddy*

    I know there’s probably nothing I can do and it’s not a big deal, but… my supervisor occasionally speaks to me in baby talk and it drives me completely batty. Any idea how to address it? Do I need to just let it go? (FWIW, I let a LOT go, but for some reason, this just grates.)

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Does your supervisor have a new baby at home? If so, I could see making a joke like “Hey, Karen, I’m not Esmerelda!” If not, then this is way too weird and IDEK.

        1. Anonymeece*

          Is it like made-up words? Because if so, I play dumb. “I don’t understand what you mean/want me to do/what that means.”

          If it’s the “voice”, I’m not sure. That’s really weird!

          1. Bibiddy*

            It’s the voice and baby versions of real words, like “pee-she-ate” instead of “appreciate.”

            1. Anonymeece*

              Hmm. I’d try playing dumb. That’s weird enough that I honestly would be confused by that.

              “I’m sorry, can you repeat that? I didn’t understand.”

              “I don’t know what that means.”

              “Can you say that again?”

              And hopefully if you do that enough, the words will go and the voice will follow the same way.

              (I am so sorry! That’s bizarre and weird and just wow, oh-so-insulting!)

    3. Argh!*

      That would grate on me too. My first thought was that I would be sarcastic or passive aggressive, but when something is that seriously annoying and literally infantalizing, I would say seriously, “Talk to me like I’m an adult, please.”

      She may have anxiety about some aspects of her job, but that’s her problem to solve, not yours.

  130. Sales Guy*

    Hello, I know I am a little late to the thread today but does anyone have any advice on asking your employer for tuition reimbursement for as MBA?

    I work for a small but profitable company so there is really no precedent set for it in the handbook. I am up for a promotion and am thinking about asking for this in the negotiation. Anyone have any experience with this or advice?

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      Hmm, is it really very important for you that the deal be structured this specific way? If they have no tuition reimbursement program in place, asking them to create one might be a little much – versus just asking for the money you can then use to pay your own tuition. Of course there are tax implications I’m probably not thinking of too.

      1. Nanc*

        Check out irs.gov. Tuition reimbursement is definitely taxable at the federal level in some instances. Should also check out your State laws, too.

        That said, if you’re going to ask and they don’t have a policy in place you may want to do as much work for them as possible. Have examples of plans, forms, policies, etc.

        Good luck–the worst they can do is say no.

    2. Persimmons*

      Every place I’ve worked that had formal tuition reimbursement had a loyalty claw-back. If you just ask for the money instead of asking for an official program, you can pay your own way instead of being tied down for X years until the loyalty period ends. (Plus, asking for it unofficially for yourself is probably a “maybe”. Asking for an official program that they will then have to offer fairly to everyone going forward is a much harder sell.)

  131. Changes In Personality Over Career*

    When I first started out in my career, I received feedback a few times that my bouncy, energetic personality didn’t read as very professional. I really agonized over this, basically I wasn’t used to embodying a separate “work persona.” I left that job and another one after it. I’ve realized that in my current job, I really just don’t have this problem any more. With age I gained confidence and I don’t think I come off as super young and immature these days. It’s interesting as I reflect on this, I’m really not sure I needed to do anything differently those early years. I acted young and inexperienced because … that’s what I was. I’d kind of like to go back and stop torturing myself.

    2. I'm A Little Teapot*

      Yep. totally me. Took a while, but I did chill out. I’m very grateful for some of the managers I had while I was doing that growing up.

  132. Murphy*

    I know I’m late to the party today, but I’m home with a sick kid. Kill me.

    I’m salaried non-exempt. My state law does not require lunch breaks. For various reasons, I started eating lunch at my desk and not taking a break most days about a year ago. I forgot to clock in yesterday so I asked my unit’s new HR rep to clock me in for the morning. She did and then said I should take a lunch break because she noticed I hadn’t been. I asked her if I was required to and she said, “This is something I’m working on. [Unit] expects that all [non-exempt] employees are required to take a 30 minute unpaid lunch break after 6 continuous hours of work.” She then said she would be communicating this to supervisors. That’s nice, but that is…not an answer about whether or not I’m required to take a break.

    Unless the weather is nice outside, there’s nowhere to eat besides my desk, and if I’m at my desk, I’d rather just be doing work. Should I follow her instructions or wait until someone actually tells me that I have to?

    1. Anonymeece*

      Can you get it in writing? I would send an email with the typical “recapping conversation yesterday”, then bring it to your boss and say, “I’m getting conflicting messages here. I’d rather be working, but I don’t want to get in trouble. What would you like me to do?”

      If supervisor says to keep working, then get that in writing – again, “recapping convo” – and then you’re at least covered either way.

      1. Murphy*

        This was an email conversation, so I do have her non-answer in writing. I know that my boss won’t care either way, but if it is an HR requirement in some way, then he will still probably want me to do it. I guess I could ask if he’s heard anything.

        1. Anonymeece*

          Yeah, I would probably ask him and get it in writing if he says to stop working.

          Because right now, if you have something from HR saying they’re asking you to do something, and you don’t, then you could get in big trouble if you don’t have anything (in writing) from boss saying that he told you differently.

          Sorry, that really sucks. I prefer to work through my lunch break as well.

    2. Positive Reframer*

      “expects that all [non-exempt] employees are required” sounds like you should be prepared to start taking breaks. If that conversation does get started then it would be a great opportunity to push back and bring up the lack of break space. Hopefully if they start requiring a break they will at least provide a place to take said break.

    3. Argh!*

      The employer has a requirement to give you time off for a meal.

      They don’t want to get into trouble for violating the law, so their local policy will be for you to cooperate with their attempt to be compliant with a law that’s there for your benefit.

      So do as they say. If you do work at your desk, don’t leave a timestamp on anything you accomplish during that time – no emails, no .pdf’s, no nothing!

      (and post here so you can prove you were goofing off)

  133. Nisie*

    Eike! I’ve been on the job for 6 weeks and just applied for another job. I can’t take the stress of what I’m doing.

    Please tell that it’s not crazy to feel that way. I just don’t feel like a good match and want to move on. This job doesn’t play to my strengths.

    1. There is a Life Outside the Library*

      There’s nothing wrong with that. It certainly *feels* bad, but the good news is that you are realizing this very early on.

    2. Elisabeth*

      Could you maybe explain in more detail what your problems are and/or what’s stressing you out so much about your current job?

      God knows I’m not in a place to judge people for ‘job hopping’, but 6 weeks is barely enough time to have gotten your feet wet. There are times when it’s truly not a good fit, but maybe if you shared a bit more in detail, we would have a better idea of how to give advice!

      1. Nisie*

        I give expert testimony in court related to something specific. I don’t feel well enough trained for the job. Since I started work, my anxiety has tripled and I’m scared it will lead to depression, which is very hard for me to pull out of.

        I’m also a contractor, and my husband’s insurance will charge even more for me next year. With several health problems, I need insurance.

        1. Elisabeth*

          I think it could also be imposter syndrome? I could be way off. But whenever I’m asked to expound on something as an ~expert, I automatically seize up and feel like an idiot. It happens to the best of us.

          That being said, being contract work and realizing so early, this is the best possible scenario for finding something new!

    3. De Minimis*

      I’ve always felt like that when starting a new job, so I think it’s normal. All but one time, I eventually felt better about it and it ended up okay. It’s hard to figure out how much of the stress is normal new job stress and how much is stress that won’t go away after you get more settled.

      There was the one time when I definitely was not in the right job and should have tried to get out ASAP, so it definitely does happen.

      1. nisie*

        Thanks. I’m worried about the amount of mistakes I’m making and my fit for the job. Also, my mental health. I let my anxiety get too bad, I’m in depression land. It takes a lot to get me out of that area.

        My way of looking at it is I applied for a state job. It’ll take a while to hear from them

    4. MissDisplaced*

      Seems to be a lot of this today on the open thread!
      It’s normal when starting a new job to feel anxiety, stress and like you can’t do it.
      However, if you’ve really discovered an aspect of the job you truly KNOW you will hate, seen something distressing and/or previously undisclosed (like a bait and switch) then you’re right to get out early.

  134. AnonyMouse*

    Does anyone have any advice for how to answer the “where do you see yourself in five years?” question when your careers goals are changing/you’re not really sure where you want to go?

    I work in higher education, and this time last year I was convinced that I wanted to work in academic advising, then work my way up the ranks in an advising office (i.e. senior advisor, assistant direct, director, etc). However, now that I’ve spent over a year in academic advising I’m really not sure if that’s 100% what I want to do. I’m currently job searching and applying for a whole host of different functional areas (mostly admissions/recruitment, program coordinator, some academic advising, etc), primarily at one university (I’m looking to relocate to that area, so my options are limited). I was asked this during one interview for a graduate program coordinator role, and I honestly drew a blank. I was honest in saying that my goals were shifting and I didn’t have a clear cut vision for what my career would look like in five years. I tried to spin it by talking about pathways I had considered and how the job I was interviewing for connected to those pathways (i.e. “I’ve thought about transitioning into the business operations/HR side of higher education, and with this position being involved in the hiring process for Graduate Assistants it would give me valuable skills that would help me transition into one of those roles if I decide to do so in the future”). I was hoping that would make it sound like I was at least thinking about my goals. I have a feeling though that I botched that answer and I want to be better prepared for if I’m asked that question again. Any pointers, or does anyone have an Alison-esque script I could follow?

    1. Anonymeece*

      I can say that, working in higher education, what I generally want to know for that question is if you’re planning on sticking around a while. If you’re not sure, I wouldn’t say that – instead, I would focus on, “In five years, I plan on staying in this area and continuing to work in higher education. I’d love the opportunity to take on new challenges as I go forward”, which is vague, but answers what they really want to know.

      The other thing is just to remember it’s not set in stone! Things come up and change, and it’s not like they’re going to hold you to it. I just want to know that a candidate isn’t (a) trying to use the job I’m advertising as a way to jump into another one (common with staff to faculty positions), and (b) is going to be around more than one year.

      1. AnonyMouse*

        This was helpful! I think what might be worrisome about me as a candidate is that I’m only 1.5 years into my current position (first one out of grad school). One of the main reasons why I’m searching is because I want to move to be closer to my family (I’m currently 1.5 hours away from them) and I have no major ties to the area I’m currently living in. When they ask this question, do you think it would be worthwhile to mention this? So kind of a variation of what you said, “I’m looking to relocate to this area to be closer to my family, so in five years I see myself still in this area and…”

        1. KE*

          Also in Higher Education, without a real clear goal in my mind for where I want my career to go. When I got this question during my last job search, I tried to frame my responses with the job in mind, like imagining what you would get out of the employer and position after 5 years. Something like…

          “Well, I’m looking to relocate to Hogsmeade to be closer to family in the area. I’m particularly interested in this position at Hogwarts because of the department’s reputation in the field and especially the faculty innovations in wards. Wherever my career takes me, in five years I would hope that I would have grown considerably in rune design, that I would be a solid mentor for student fellows, and that I would be a part of a team that fosters creativity and innovations in the field.”

    2. Susan K*

      I’m not sure if this is the right answer, but I’ve said something like this before and it seemed to go over pretty well: “I don’t really have a definite plan for the next five years. I’m interested in X and Y, but I’m also open to other career paths that might be a good fit for my skills. For now, I plan to focus on [job for which I’m applying].”

    3. K*

      I usually say something vague that could describe lots of things, like “I want to be in a position where my work is valued and I’m making a difference.”

    4. Smarty Boots*

      You need to spend some time thinking about this question and having a good answer. You already know it’s a likely question. I’ve worked for many years in higher ed in the kinds of areas you’ve listed. I’ve chaired quite a few search committees, everything from entry level to mid level director positions.

      It’s a genuine question. Yes, I care how long you’re going to stay around. I care even more to know that you’ve given some thought to this question and have some sense of what your career path might be, or what you see your life as like in a few years, or that you have some sense of ways you want to develop professionally —there are different ways to think about this question. I also want to see that you’ve spent some time thinking about what people in X field do, and even more important, what we do in the program or office you’re applying to. I don’t expect you to have a finely detailed map, especially not for an entry level position, of course. But I do expect thought and a real answer.

      You’ve only spent about a year or so in your current job, and it sounds like it is your first professional job? For me (as someone who’s screening candidates and also as someone offering you life-advice) I’d be concerned that you’re jumping out of this first job so quickly. Why are you not interested in continuing in advising—are the issues specific to the field, or to the office you’re working in? What is it about the other areas you’ve listed that are more appealing? Are you clear on the ways these jobs are similar, and are those the areas that you do or don’t like? Are there ways for you to get some knowledge about and experience in those other areas while you continue your current job?

      A vague answer is not going to help you. If it’s the only question that you punt, probably it won’t hurt you too much. But if it seems like you’re wiggling around other questions, or haven’t put thought and research into other questions, it’s going to be hard for you to be at the top of the pile.

  135. Amy Gardner*

    I have recently come back to work at my alma mater and could not be happier. I love my role, my work, my colleagues. There is one issue for which I am seeking your counsel. When I was in school there was a WONDERFUL director of career services. She was fantastic. Everyone’s favorite administrator. Funny and warm and awesome at her job. A beloved school figure. She is still here – now as a dean! And is now a colleague and basically a peer who is ever so slightly above me in rank. We collaborate a lot together and I welcome her historical perspective, her profound love for our school, and her dedication to our undergraduate students and their experience. However, while all those aforementioned things that I welcome from her are terrific and while she generally holds herself to fabulous working norms (conscious of culture, wonderfully collaborative, organized, strategic), there are three things that have mired all that and have made working with her really difficult. (1) She is completely change averse. “We can’t have the faculty meeting on that day, we ALWAYS have the sophomore majors fair on that third Thursday of the month!” She pushes back on everything that doesn’t completely fall in line what we have done previously. (2) She is controlling. All of us at the Dean level (I am an Assistant Dean) have an upcoming annual mini-retreat to work on a couple of key initiatives. I am running it, it is organized (using my predecessors plans and documents), everyone (including this colleague) have been weighing in. I also have an annotated agenda (that doesn’t go to our Grand High Dean and her immediate deputy) so that we know what we want to say where, etc. This controlling colleague wants a script. She wants it written out to the letter so that WE ALL know exactly what we are going to say. She can write her own parts out, but she wants it sketched out for all! Lastly (3) she kind of seems over her job. Things seem to bother her a lot. While she expresses it in a thoughtful, not hysterical way, she is overcome with frustration a lot. She has taken a couple of “mental health” days because “everything is just too much.” She has expressed feeling uninspired by her work. She also cannot stand the Grand High Dean. Almost all of her instances of being over her job stem from something the Grand High Dean has done or not done. In meetings, this colleague is passive aggressive with Grand High Dean. In private, this colleague bad mouths Grand High Dean.
    So my question is – how do I support this colleague? She does add a LOT of value to the school. She is an institution and beloved (and, by the way, does GREAT work), but she is lashing out against change, fighting to control everything, or just being plain over it all like 75% of the time and climbing. People are noticing (internally and externally). When I broached it with her – just checking to ask how she was (following up on one of her exasperated emails announcing one of those “mental health” days), she said she was uninspired. I talked to her about how maybe we could add some core values or vision work to our usual strategic planning work for the year and she perked up. However, when we initiated the exercise she fell into her triumvirate of issues: “we tried this before and it didn’t work, so we shouldn’t try again now” and “we need to have this much more spelled out. We need this fleshed out word for word” and “Grand High Dean will not go for this at all…everything is miserable.” Any advice?

    1. MissDisplaced*

      Oh boy! Is there really an issue with Grand High Dean? Sounds like she’s in major defensive operating mode. The uber-control issues make it seem like she was blamed & burned somehow in the past by the GHD.

      Is there any way to put some managerial space between her and the Grand High Dean she would accept?

      Change averse: Not sure if it’s related, or just a personality quirk. I’d say pick your battles. Maybe get her to give on the small stuff (like day of the week for an event) while maintaining tradition on larger scope items.

      1. Amy Gardner*

        Thank you @MissDisplaced. Good question re Grand High Dean. The last Grand High Dean was beloved and a big fundraiser. She was happily the energetic public face of the school. New Grand High Dean (who has been here six years) is definitely more of a researcher. Really leaves her deans to run the place. Not particularly visionary, but she is the dean we have. And current Grand High Dean knows this. She is smart and self-aware. I appreciate the managerial space suggestion, but colleague makes it about Grand High Dean regardless of where we are and what’s happening. Sigh…

        Change averse is a bit trickier. Thanks for your suggestions!

    2. Argh!*

      Why do you feel it’s your job to do this emotional work? She’s been there for eons, so she should have friends. And since you’re new to your role, any advice would probably be wrong or useless. No offense, but no matter how smart you are, wisdom comes with experience.

      Your job at this point is to seek out a mentor for yourself, not coddle someone who isn’t coping well.

      1. Smarty Boots*

        Moreover, you do not want to tether yourself tightly to someone who is probably driving a lot of people batty, who is probably not as effective as you believe at this point (as a new assistant dean) just because she is so averse to change, and who is setting herself up to make the grand high dean her enemy —that’s a serious issue. You can be sympathetic, but you need to be careful.

      2. Amy Gardner*

        Thanks for your comment, @Argh. I am an Assistant Dean and also Chief of Staff. So I basically have to ensure things run smoothly, generally. So while I wouldn’t get involved in this as much, it is not starting to spill out to the rest of the staff and external partners as well: many of whom are starting to comment on my colleague’s mood and sourness. I don’t want to coddle my colleague, I just want to navigate it and see if there is a way to make it better for everyone!

  136. CS Rep By Day, Writer By Night*

    Got a job opportunity out of the blue from a recruiter on LinkedIn, and for once it appears to be a legit job that I’m qualified for, is permanent/full time work, and pays very well for the position. It would be a lateral move, but there would be a pay hike and it looks like there’s lots of room for growth, plus it would get me back into the manufacturing industry again. The initial phone interview went well, and the recruiter thinks the employer will be calling me for their own phone interview as early as next week.

    1. MissDisplaced*

      It does happen!
      We hear so much about the scams and crappy recruiter horror stories, but real jobs and good recruiters do exist.

  137. Anon for This*

    I’m not sure if I want advice or just to vent, but here goes:

    When I started this job, I had 16 employees in two areas. In the past few years, I’ve had 42 employees over 4 areas; our traffic is 300% of what we were, which is double that of enrollment growth over the same period. I’ve also taken on several special projects that take up a huge chunk of time, as well as dealing with all the everyday crises that pop up having 42 employees. I also get tapped for a lot of larger projects and committees and all that, which further eats into my time. During the beginning of semesters, I pretty much work 12-14 hour days every day and still have things left undone.

    Recently my boss admitted I was doing far and above my title (coordinator) and submitted a re-org. The re-org got approved and she told me I would now be a program manager, effective the new budget year. But when I hadn’t heard anything, I asked a colleague who had her job re-classed a while ago and she said I should have heard something (she never had to submit anything, they just called and told her her new salary/title).

    Turns out, I have to submit a ticket, then that needs to go through HR, and since HR recently did a massive compensation review and changed a bunch of people from exempt to non-exempt (including me), they’re handling the mess that left and won’t be able to get to it for a few months, it looks like. I asked if the pay raise would be backdated to the new budget year, and they waffled and said it was really the Chancellor’s decision, they can’t say anything, it may or may not be, etc.

    I could really use that raise; it would bump my pay up pretty significantly (it feels impolite to say specifics, but basically from $42K – $50K), and I’ve been hit with a bunch of unexpected expenses lately so I am really walking a fine line on whether my bills will actually be covered this month. My boss asked if I could get a stipend, but they said no.

    Like I said, not sure if I want advice or just to vent, but this is just incredibly demoralizing and seems unfair. Apparently my new position was approved by budget (“yes, we have the money to pay this”), but HR has to actually implement it… except they never told anyone, including my boss, we had to do that, so now it may be months to see it. I just don’t know what to do and feel incredibly discouraged by it all.

    1. TCO*

      (If you do want advice) Your boss needs to go to bat for you on this one. And maybe her boss needs to get involved, as well.

      1. Anonymeece*

        It’s kind of awkward, because from what I can tell: Grandboss likes me, but thinks Boss is not doing a good job. Greatboss either is indifferent or likes me, but thinks Boss is not doing a good job.

        So I could go to Grandboss with issue, but Boss doesn’t like me having contact with Grandboss without going through her first.

        So I guess I could talk to Boss about whether or not it would be useful to bring Grandboss into the equation? At least for the backpay situation?

        1. TCO*

          I’d start with asking your boss about bringing in someone higher up, as you suggested. If everyone above your boss doesn’t think she’s doing a great job… is they’re any chance they’re right? If so, could her lack of skills be affecting her ability to fight well for your backpay/raise? It seems risky to leave your compensation in the hands of one person who isn’t well-respected in the department. Bring in someone higher up if there’s any way to get your boss to agree to that. You could also consider going higher up the ladder in HR.

          It sounds like you were promised a promotion and pay raise, and it’s fair for you to insist that those aren’t delayed by another department dropping the ball on administrative processing. Do you have anything in writing about the timing of your raise/promotion? You can just say, “I was promised that this would be effective at the start of the budget year, as you can see here. I need that to be processed ASAP and I need it to be made retroactive to when it was scheduled to begin. What will you do to make that happen?”

          1. Anon for This*

            Oh, they are almost certainly right. I work well with her simply because she’s never here, so I pretty much have autonomy to do whatever I want, but obviously that doesn’t endear her to Grand and GreatBoss. Boss actually specifically requested that my promotion be contingent upon her promotion; they turned her down, but did give me the two-title bump.

            So there are definitely some internal politics affecting this and I’m unfortunately caught in the middle. I like your script for HR! I’m trying to think of how to word this to Boss to get Grandboss involved in a way that doesn’t say, “You really don’t have the clout that you think you do, and I’m more concerned about me right now…”

  138. Bob*

    I am currently working closely with two Americorps placements straight out of undergrad and they have wildly inaccurate ideas about how much knowledge and experience they have. They are doing high quality work (that is appropriate to their skill level), but consider themselves just as qualified as people who have had 30 years experience in our field and complain when they aren’t seen as such. One of them was venting yesterday because someone introduced her as an Americorps person and implied she might not be able to answer everything. She literally vented that she has the same degree as the person who said that (she doesn’t – she has an undergrad in the same field while the other person has an advanced degree) and that she therefore knows just as much. Both of them approach interactions as if they are there not only as equals, but as teachers and take up space in meetings explaining things that everyone already knows. I work most closely with them and they are the only people I work really closely with (I typically work independently). They are driving me absolutely crazy with their arrogance and sense of entitlement and I am struggling to keep my cool.

    I am not their supervisor so I can’t be as direct, but did tell them that you learn how to work in our field by working in our field and not in a classroom and I said that you know literally nothing about someone based on their degree except that they finished school. I also said that some of the most effective people in our field didn’t graduate from high school and some of the least competent people I have worked with have multiple advanced degrees.

    These people have an incredible opportunity to learn from leaders in our field and work at a much higher level than anyone with their lack of experience otherwise would. Does anyone have any ideas for how to change this dynamic? They feed off of each other, so it is only getting worse (one has only been here for a week). They are insufferable and their lack of humility is keeping them from learning anything while they’re here. I need to figure out how to approach this constructively before I just snap and say things that aren’t exactly professional.

    1. AdAgencyChick*

      You’re not their boss, but have you talked to their boss? Their supervisor should know that this is happening so she can pull each of them aside and explain that this attitude will affect how they are perceived both now and in the future when they are using their Americorps contacts as professional references.

      1. Sloan Kittering*

        At least in the case of the degree, that seems relatively straightforward to clear up. “Toni, I heard you say your experience is equal to Chadwick’s, I wanted to be sure you were aware that Chadwick’s advanced degree in cosmology adds a lot to our department, and an undergraduate degree in stargazing is no equivalent. Sometimes these things can be confusing from the outside.”

      2. Julianne (also a teacher)*

        I think the message you gave them (that yours is a field where you learn by doing) was good, but I also agree that you should flag these issues for their supervisor. And if their supervisor isn’t a strong manager – I know in some AmeriCorps programs, the onsite management tends to be younger and less experienced – I’d talk to whoever is in charge of partnerships at your workplace.

    2. MechanicalPencil*

      Honestly, some of this might just have to come from life experience? Unless you can use pointed examples of like “Look at Bob, what do you think his major was? No…he didn’t graduate high school” or something, you’re just going to have to let them make fools of themselves. I don’t know that I see another way around it right now. Life experience is just as important as academic experience, and understanding that concept is just something that comes with time.

    3. Sloan Kittering*

      Sometimes you can’t win big picture (like getting them to acknowledge they don’t know as much as they think they do, or that other people’s experience is more valuable) but you can name specific behaviors. I tend to be a talker and somebody told me early on in my career, “while you’re new, I expect you to spend 99% of your time in meetings listening and absorbing the conversation. You shouldn’t be making more than one or two comments at most.” That felt very harsh to me but was actually helpful to hear.

    4. Snark*

      At a previous job, we had an intern who pulled these kinds of shenanigans, and someone flatly told him to shut up and listen in a meeting. He was shocked and appalled.

      I dunno. My temptation would be to take them aside and tell them that their attitude is a problem. But would they actually listen?

    5. Captain Vegetable (Crunch Crunch Crunch)*

      Ooof. That sounds awful. I guess some might depend on how much of this is ignorance/arrogance? I once worked with a young’un fresh out of school. She was super eager and super full of herself. She was one of two people hired to the same position, but started a day earlier than the other person. She started trying to train the other person as if she’d learned everything needed in a day (she was wrong on things and we decided to train them separately to keep her from trying to teach the other person and just generally making it harder for second person). It took her precipitating a tremendous mess to knock her off of her self-made pedestal. I do give her credit for being able to learn from her mistake. I don’t work there any more, so I don’t if that lesson stuck or if she reverted at some point. I’m quite curious.

    6. Argh!*

      Overconfidence comes with the territory. They’ve been successful at what they’ve done so far, and the think their coursework & experience “prepared” them for the job.

      They’ll settle down. Be patient. It’s just a natural part of professional growth and development.

  139. Patty Mayonnaise*

    Hi all! First time joining for an open thread and have a question about writing samples as part of an interview process. I applied to a writing job and listed three areas of interest – and they responded and sent me three different requests for writing samples. I’ve done two of the three and it’s taken me four hours total, and broke down to about 2 hours each. I really have a lot less interest in the last “area of interest” and I feel like six hours of total work is too much to dedicate to this… so I don’t want to do the last one, simply stating I don’t have time and I have to move on to other projects. Is that reasonable? And if anyone has ideas about a good script to use, let me know! I’ve looked through the archives a bit but haven’t found specific language.

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Did they word the request as wanting a sample in each area you were interested in or did they ask for 3? I think that would make a difference. If it’s the first, you could say something like “After giving it further consideration, I realized I am primarily interested in these two areas, so I’m only sending writing samples for them.” If it’s the latter, I’m not sure you can get away with not doing the 3rd.

      1. Patty Mayonnaise*

        They wanted a sample for each area I was interested in, so I could definitely tell them I’m only interested in the two areas and not the third – thanks, that was helpful!

    2. Kim, Ranavain*

      Actually, looking at the wording, do the people who sent you requests for samples each know that you were being requested to send the other samples? If it’s like, basically, 3 different positions you’re applying for, I think you’d be fine to say “I’m actually going to focus on these other 2 positions, so I won’t be returning a sample here.”

      But if it’s not really like that, I agree with the detective above. You have to be willing to risk that they just won’t advance you if you don’t complete all three.

      (Also, I presume this is purely semantic, but are these writing samples or exercises? Typically, a writing sample is something you’re expected to pull from your existing work, right? Whereas an exercise would be writing something specifically for this hiring process. Again, I presume it’s an exercise and you’re well aware of all that, but in case you’re not, it would explain why they thought it was an appropriate ask, as I wouldn’t normally find 6 hours of work to be appropriate for an exercise.)

      1. Patty Mayonnaise*

        Thanks Kim – yes, the same person sent me all three emails, so she knows she’s requesting a lot of material from me. To be honest I’m not sure if they would consider it three different positions or not, because the areas of interest are pretty divergent, but maybe they wanted someone who could write in multiple subject areas. But the Detective is right that I don’t really have interest in the third area anymore, so if it writing for that area is a necessity of the position, then it’s not a good fit. And yes, these are exercises that I have to do from scratch based on materials they sent me, unfortunately – I was definitely hoping to reuse things I’ve already written when I got the emails requesting these exercises, but it was not to be!

        1. Fiddler*

          If I asked you to do three writing exercises and you sent me only two because the third topic just didn’t interest you after all, I’d chuck out your application. You’ve just shown me that 1. You can’t follow simple directions and 2. You don’t understand that writing jobs often require you to write about things you don’t care about at all.

          It’s two hours. Or maybe three because you don’t like the topic. Is that really so onerous that you’re willing to risk giving up on this job?

    1. Xarcady*

      Well, I’m a temp and they decided a few months ago to make this position permanent, in part because I’ve been here for 18 months. I applied.

      Today I was told that “they are going in a different direction,” and my last day will be September 28.

      Fortunately, my temp agency is already looking for new jobs for me, and I have a phone interview next week. Keeping fingers crossed.

  141. Elisabeth*

    Just wanted to ramble a little bit about staying in the same general career path (accounting!) but completely switching roles from external auditor to internal senior accountant.

    All of my goal posts and expectations have to change and I’m feeling a little adrift in terms of … how best to gauge how I’m doing or how to set goal posts for myself. The person in the role for a year before me was an underperformer, and I’ve spent 5+ years in public accounting where everything is based on an unrealistic deadline that means you have to work doubletime to even think about meeting the deadline perfectly.

    It’s just weird. I’ve been externally auditing clients, a new client every few weeks, for all of my “adult” career path (I was a library tech for six years before this). So the idea of continuous process improvement at the same job for … hopefully, as long as I want, is just a weird thing to grapple with.

    Has anyone else had to experience this feeling? I don’t really know any other external auditors that went private on a friend-basis that I stayed close with, so I don’t have a good network for navigating this.

    1. I'm A Little Teapot*

      I went from external audit to internal audit (may eventually move to accounting). It was definitely a major change in pace. That just takes time to adjust to, I think it took me about a year to really get acclimated to the full cycle.

      Accounting is different because it’s cyclical, and the cycle isn’t a full year. First, figure out what your cycle is, and what the frequency is. Are you doing monthly/quarterly/YE close? Something else? That will drive a lot.

      Goals: timeliness and accuracy. Improving efficiency is a huge deal in accounting. Improving accuracy, without losing (much) efficiency is even better. Strong, streamlined controls and processes. Documentation – complete, accurate, and useful. Depending on how you’re interacting with other departments, building/maintaining those relationships.

      Check in with your manager, very specifically. What are her expectations? Where are you meeting them, where are you falling short?

      What projects have been backburnered because your predecessor was a bad fit? Find out, and figure out how you can start to accomplish them. there’s ALWAYS nice to haves. Also, what is your involvement/responsibility for implementing new accounting guidance? Find out early so you can stay on top of things.

    2. ronda*

      lots of auditors go to accounting roles.
      I was never an auditor, but in accounting for my career (switched to systems rather than accounting).

      you can look up some people you used to work with as an auditor (that you now see are in accounting via linked in) and see if they want to talk…. it doesnt matter if you didnt stay close, if they knew you before, lots of people are interested in doing a short catch up and talking about the old and new times.

  142. Bend & Snap*

    I’m a little more than 3 months in to a new role, and we just had a major tradeshow. I had a long trip leading up to it and ending at the show. I have Generalized Anxiety Disorder, ran out of meds on the road and missed a couple of days on them, and was generally on sensory overload at the show (Vegas).

    My boss nicely said I was visibly anxious and to pull it together, so I did the best I could. This week I fessed up to my anxiety and he was supportive. But my jerkbrain still feels worried about it.

    I’m remote so don’t have the reassurance of daily contact.

    Any tips for getting past this in my own head?

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Is this going to be a semi frequent type of event for you? If so, maybe making some check lists for yourself so you can ensure it doesn’t happen again? Set calendar reminders for when you need med refills, make a packing list so you can make sure to take everything you need to help with your GAD, etc.

      Also, keep reminding yourself that anxiety is a lying bitch :)

      1. Bend & Snap*

        I very rarely have this type of issue–my anxiety is really well managed. This was a confluence of being away from home for 2 weeks + a major event for my child the second I got back + my doctor’s office dropping the ball on my meds (someone was fired) + being completely exhausted when I got to the show. I’m usually fine and now have a med to take “as needed” if this happens again. But I’m worried about the perception with my boss and not dwelling on it in my own head. I can’t stop thinking about it…thanks anxiety.

        1. MissDisplaced*

          I’d frame this as a learning experience. If tradeshows are a regular thing for you to attend, I think it’s reasonable to discuss having a week in-between any other travel plans with your boss before the next one. You can always pose this as “I want to be on the top of my game at ShowX next week.”

          Honestly, It wasn’t the best thing that could’ve happened (given your boss noticed something was off with you) but it’s also a very understandable thing if you couldn’t get your medication refill + all the travel. I doubt this would be any kind of deal breaker for your boss (so put your mind at rest) but take reasonable steps so it doesn’t happen again and do awesome work during normal non-travel times so this becomes a forgettable blip from back when you were a new.

          For what it’s worth, I’ve experienced a few severe migraines while on business/show travel. I once missed a day at a tradeshow and was stuck in the bathroom lounge at a conference for 2 hours waiting for my migraine medicine to kick in. It sucks, but most people are understanding.

  143. LGC*

    So, I think I know the answer to this question but I’m asking the AAM squad.

    I do the billing for all the projects in my division (so about 5 major customers). One of the projects – not the one I primarily work on now – has had significant delays in turnaround (their production has slipped significantly, and so has their billing).

    From what I’ve heard, I think a large part of the issue is that they’re performing four or more separate quality control checks for the same issues (basically, let’s say they groom llamas and they’re checking multiple times to make sure that their llamas are groomed properly). I personally think that since we’re only being paid for two QCs, we should only need to check the llamas twice.

    Do I have any standing to say this, or should I keep my mouth shut? (Again, I’m pretty sure I don’t have the standing to say anything, but I want your opinions.)

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Unless you are getting questioned about the decrease in billing, I’d say no, you probably don’t have the standing to bring this up.

      1. LGC*

        True, that’s what I thought. I have loads of Opinions (Yes, capital Opinions) on…everything (I work with that team for some things, and I’ve heard a lot about their situation), but I’ve mostly been good about things.

    2. Argh!*

      Don’t say anything. They have their reasons, and they (should) know what they’re doing. They either have an underperformer in the mix, or have been severely burned by a mistake. Whoever their boss is should be the one noticing the decline in productivity. The boss would also be the one to notice a decline in errors and problems. That’s who gets to choose between quality & quantity. You’re only seeing quantity.

  144. Time for a gnu name*

    It’s been a rough week at work, and beyond, so I’m just posting to share a couple of good work-things that I can focus on instead of all the bad.
    1. Moved back to BigTown this week, so my commute to work went from 60+/- minutes to about 15. Extra time to sip coffee leisurely at home in the mornings before leaving for work!!
    2. All ready to meet an important deadline today at work.
    3. One of my company’s benefits is a per-occurrence perk related to closing on a primary residence. We just bought a home, hence the shorter commute, and today I submitted my paperwork so should have a little extra $ in the bank in a couple of weeks! Hooray for industry-specific perks!

    If this concept (listing some good so you don’t focus on the bad) resonates with you, please feel free to share your own!

    1. Red Reader*

      Tomorrow is my first wedding anniversary and my husband and I are leaving at o-dark-hundred for Disneyworld (which is also where we honeymooned).

    2. wingmaster*

      Good work-related things that happened to me this past week:

      1. Presented a huge project to the president of the company without my boss and got a “Good job” from him. That’s all I needed to hear haha.
      2.With the boss being out, I get the office to myself to blast music and listen to true crime podcasts.
      3. Today is pay day.

    3. Anonymeece*

      I like this! (And need this right now)

      Mine:

      I had a big, stressful scenario crop up at work and as I was calmly handling it, I realized that a few years ago, it would have sent me into an anxious mess, and here I was saying, “No problem, let’s do…”. That was kind of a great moment for me, to realize how I’ve grown and really gotten into the groove of this job.

    4. Trixie*

      Great idea! Focusing on some good things as week wraps up.
      1. Just finished first month in new role (same organization but different dept) and so glad I made the move.
      2. New role includes more flexible schedule (love) and generally quiet Fridays to prep for following week. LOVE.
      3. Taking advantage of 100% tuition concession for two classes this semester.

  145. Bunny*

    Hey all, I’ve just started a new job this week (after being unemployed for 8 months…ugh!). It’s a drastic shift from my previous work which was within post-secondary trade schools. I did admin work, lab management and things of that sort. I was laid off, and decided to go for it and completely change industries and and my career trajectory. So here I am now working in a tech innovation and entrepreneurship non-profit. The job description is about lease/admin work to scaleup/startups, event hosting, community building, workshops and info sesssions. Needless to say, outside of admin work…I have zero experience in hosting and community-driven based work.

    That said I was hired and I’m really excited (plus a fast-learner which works in my favour here)…but unfortunately my predecessor left ZERO reference materials in how to do basic job duties. I have my job description and that’s it. I’m already fielding calls from clients about setting up workshops and hosting food truck events (luckily everyone seems to know it’s my first week and I’ve barely dipped my toes in).

    I’m panicking a bit because I feel like I should be able to take these requests/questions and deal with them ASAP if I had the materials to do so. But I have ziltch. I work in a two-person department, with the other person being my boss. We have a one-on-one later today to go over files and job in detail…so I plan on asking them about how to get going on all of this stuff.

    But is there anything out there that people could recommend? I feel like I’m sh*t up the creek with no paddle and my canoe has a massive hole in it.

    1. MissDisplaced*

      Is there ANYone there who knows how these things were setup and paid for previously?
      It might be someone in bookkeeping or accounting. They may be able to pull invoices or something to see who the company worked with on events previously. If you can get those names, those types of companies will help tremendously with event work from there. But a lot of this will also be about YOU building your contacts and providers on the event side of things. So much of event planning is really about knowing who to contact to do X.

      And I’m always amazed at how few places give new employees even the most basic instructions about how to order and pay for things!

  146. anonypissed*

    The comments about culture fit yesterday really struck a chord with me. The tech companies in my area are all on the deeply-ingrained casually sexist spectrum, from the young dude-bro frat culture to aging into middle-aged man-children. Some other female developers and I started coming up with a list of companies to avoid, then realized that we couldn’t actually find one that we’d recommmend. Being female essentially means that we aren’t a culture fit.

    Coworkers at a previous job used to call me a “rockstar” and a “force of nature”. I’ve almost always been the only female developer and tackled the culture to make it less overtly sexist and racist. But its been exhausting and I don’t have the fight left in me anymore. I’d rather put this energy towards being a better engineer (like the men are able to do). Its infruriating how low the bar is for my male collegues, but I have to be three times better than them to get the same respect. Of the women I went to school with, I’m the only one still coding. The rest moved to adjacent fields or left the industry completely. I’m semi-regularly tapped for speaking at local college societies about how to succeed as a minority in engineering, but this year I just want to tell them “Switch majors, it isn’t worth it”.

    When people write in about dysfunctional workplaces, the advice in the comments is often to leave, but what do you do when the other options are just as bad? When you’re just trading one dude-bro environment for another? I’ve tried changing cities, changing industries, changing everything, but underneath it all just seems to be the same.

    1. Nita*

      Start your own company? I don’t know how realistic this is for you, because it is a very different mindset and time commitment. I also don’t know whether this is relevant to your industry, but small companies that are woman/minority owned are somewhat supported by government contracts that require hiring them. They often have to team with bigger companies, but the big companies can’t do without them either because the bid terms require that a certain percentage of the work must go to MBEs/WBEs.

      1. Positive Reframer*

        Or team up with someone who wants to. It sounds like the local industry is leaving a lot of talent on the table I’d bet in addition to all of the women, there are plenty of men who have opted out of those environments. If you hire the best out of that group you could probably have a group that was significantly more talented and probably productive than the competition.

    2. MissDisplaced*

      This is what the feminists mean when they say how deeply and systematically misogyny is ingrained and institutionalized in our society. They were right. This shit is not made up.

    4. AeroEngineer*

      Yes. This. 1000%. I work with man-children as well.

      I did actually have a better situation at a larger company where there were definitely more women than my current 2 out of 60, and that type of attitude was just not allowed in general. So that situation does exist, but man is it rare.

      Solidarity in the exhaustion and lack of fight. I am hoping to move back to the company where I was before for my internship, as I am just so done. Between the man-children and other issues, I am praying I get out by the end of the year.

      There are a few female run and owned tech companies out there, and I know one of my friends got a job at one and really enjoys it. But besides that, it is a long slog uphill it seems >.>

    5. Daughter of Ada and Grace*

      There are stats about the retention rate of women in tech being terrible. Sometimes it’s a story on it’s own (of the “Why are women leaving tech?” variety), and sometimes it’s hidden in a story about the so-called “Leaky Pipeline”. You’ve just illustrated exactly why women (like your classmates) are leaving tech.

      There are good companies out there for women in tech (mine is one), but I would be absolutely unsurprised to find there are more bad ones. I sometimes wonder how some of my friends who are also women in tech put up with some of the stuff they’ve told me about their companies.

      Unsolicited advice ahead! I’d advise declining opportunities to speak about “how to succeed as a minority in engineering” this year. Your “it isn’t worth it” comment suggests you aren’t going to be able to bring any enthusiasm for this topic right now, and that’s not fair to either you or the students you’ll be talking to. If you want to keep your hand in the public speaking game, stick to purely technical topics. It will remind you that you do have the technical chops for this, and more importantly, it shows your audience that you (and therefore people who look like you) have the technical chops for this.

      … Where did this soapbox come from, and why am I standing on it? ….

      1. Sloan Kittering*

        Also the influx of future women may change some of these things. I look at the Mad Men era when it sucked so hard for those first women – but it didn’t suck as badly for the next, or the next, because we started to get enough mass to take over. So yes, you may not be the spokesperson for Jump On In, The Water’s Fine, but I’d say don’t discourage them from coming on, even if your experience wasn’t great.

      2. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

        I agree generally, but I don’t think it’s unfair for students to hear the (crappy) reality. Honestly, I get exhausted by all the admonitions for women to behave differently in order to succeed in sexist systems. I’d be thrilled to hear some real talk from an insider about how the system needs to change instead.

        1. AeroEngineer*

          Yea, honestly I wish someone had sat me down and really told me of the things I should look out for in a company being a female in tech. I had a brunch with some graduates back in my bachelors, where they told me their horror stories, which did actually help to prepare me.

          However, while some other students from that time probably would also have liked to hear it, I do know a number definitely should not have heard it at that point. So perhaps not something to say in front of a class.

          Since I have ended up in a bad case of man-child workplace, I definitely could have used help in the flags to look for when I was interviewing. My internship company was amazing in comparison (I had a female supervisor who started to pave the way though), but the overall environment was just so much better.

    6. Brownie*

      It might seem like odd advice, but is it possible to look at government, preferably federal, positions? The place I’m at has a long history of women in tech (men were scientists, women ran anything relating to computers) and because of that it’s taken for granted that women are part of the tech field. Ten of the 30 people in the IT dept I work in are women and it’s so nice. If I compare it to the private companies in my past it’s absolutely a much better place for women than the private sector was, especially in terms of having to not having to fight against the “culture fit” problems anymore because women are automatically part of the culture and have been since the beginning (plus the heavy hand of HR and discrimination policies which will be and are enforced). If you’re willing to move and are in the US look at the science-side of the government, NOAA, NASA, the national labs, USGS, they all need tech folks to manage their systems and have organizational histories where women have always been part of IT and therefore part of the culture.

  147. How to Respond to Lowball Offer*

    I’d love some insight from the peanut gallery. I currently make $130K +$20K bonus. Great. But my boss is a bully, and I want out. I recently got a job offer, in a slightly lower cost of living location for $90K, and completely variable bonuses, but probably much lower. Sure, housing may be cheaper, but everything else costs about the same. I think I’d like the new job more, but there’s never a guarantee of that. That’s what I thought at this job, but then the person who hired me left and got replaced by someone not easy to work for.

    They said that got market data to determine the salary, including I know not whom. But they’re a very large company with hundreds of people at my level nationwide. Wouldn’t it be more appropriate to compare all teapot design managers in cities at the same cost of living, so there is internal equity? I don’t want my salary set by a relatively new teapot design manager who is a sole proprietor, if I’m more experienced and at a larger firm.

    Anyone have suggestions on wording a request that they look at their own data, too, and just generally see if they can budge some? Push back via phone or email? Or do I just take it as an insult since they knew my salary (but not bonus), and still think I’m game for a $40K paycut?

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      If someone told me they used market data to determine my salary, I’d assume they meant data for my market. Why are you assuming they didn’t do this?

      Rather than having a go at their research, which they seem to believe is accurate, I’d tell them that you realize this is a slightly lower COL area (because that’s going to be their response, if they haven’t bought it up already) but you still can’t afford such a large paycut. And then ask if they can go up to whatever it is you want them to go up to.

    2. Icontroltherobots*

      I wouldn’t be insulted but I would ask for more. I mean personally, I wouldn’t take a job for a 40K paycut unless I was getting something in exchange, like a seriously reduced flextime schedule so I could “full time parent”

      Variable bonuses can be sweet – did they provide you with the % from the prior three years? My company gives out this data with the offers so you can get an idea of what the variable comp could be.

      If you’re like screw it I’m out – make sure you don’t get trapped in some crappy 90K is the max you’ll ever make pay band. Those blow

    3. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      I’d treat this as business-as-usual negotiation. What’s your understanding of the market rate for your role in the new metro area? Ask for that: “I know the market rate for this kind of role is around $100,000 in City X. Given my level of experience, I’d like to be closer to $105,000. Is that something you can do?”

      Of note: the market rate for your role may or may not correspond with the different cost of living. The cost of living in DC is markedly higher than Pittsburgh, but a junior nonprofit staffer is likely to get paid a similar rate in both cities.

    4. CAA*

      Very large companies like the one you describe usually do have market data. They buy salary surveys and their HR department uses them to set salary bands for the same role in different locations, and then they report all that data to the EEOC. So your suggestion that they don’t have equity between their internal positions or that they should look again at their data to see if it’s flawed is very likely to make you look out of touch and result in a “this is our offer, take it or eave it” response.

      The way to try negotiating for a higher salary is to point out that you have more experience than they may have realized so you bring more value, and you believe you are worth $110K in salary and would they be able to meet that? Then you both settle on something like $103K. I really doubt if you’d get more than $103K or maybe even a bit less, but you could shoot for, say, $108, which is 20% more than they offered. They might want you enough to go for that, or you might be able to convince them that they are offering you a salary for a 3 to 5 year employee when you really have 10 years of experience.

      Before you negotiate too hard, do take some time to look for your own market data on salaries in the area. Alison has lots of advice on how to do that. This kind of mismatch you are describing is a perennial problem in San Diego, where salaries are significantly lower than L.A. or the Bay Area, even though the cost of living is only slightly lower. It’s always a pain to explain that to people who move from the higher paying areas, but it is what it is, and we aren’t going to pay people more than the local market rates just because they used to earn more in a different city.

    5. LQ*

      I think it’s almost never an insult when a company makes an offer. What do they have to gain from insulting the person they’ve picked to hire and have gone down the path of making an offer to? It might not be what you want, but it certainly shouldn’t be viewed as insulting. And I don’t think you have anything to gain from assuming they are trying to insult you.

    6. Evil HR Person*

      Ditto what all the other commenters said, but also: market rate is one piece of the puzzle, the other is company size. I couldn’t tell whether you were coming from or going to a large company. I came from a 300+ person company into a 100-person company and took a 15% cut in the same geographical area. But I liked the other job better, so I was okay with that cut. My new company was at market for a company of its size for the area. I’m not sure if this factors in with your problem. That said, negotiate as you would with any other offer, without calling their market research into question. It might be accurate or it might not – but you gain nothing by pointing it out.

  148. Rusty Shackelford*

    I posted a couple of weeks ago (link in username) about the ridiculously long process involved in my kid getting a part time job. She’s been working for about a week and a half, and was just informed that they have to “fire her and re-hire her” because they messed up her paperwork. And the process will take a few days, so she can’t work this weekend as planned. THIS IS RIDICULOUS.

    1. Snark*

      …..wut

      That sounds bonkers. I hope to hell they pay her for that week. I have this sinking feeling they will try to skate on it.

      1. Rusty Shackelford*

        That was my first thought, but she says they told her they have a check for her. And if they don’t, I’m going to have to be That Mom, and I really don’t want to be That Mom.

    2. Beth Anne*

      I just went back and read that all…that is INSANE!! And I don’t understand this. I’m guessing they messed up the way they filed the W4 or something? I don’t get why they can’t just back date it? That is so weird.

      1. Rusty Shackelford*

        It was something to do with proof of citizenship – they’d uploaded her forms incorrectly, and missed a deadline to re-do them, or something along those lines. And apparently the only way it can be fixed is to remove her from the system completely and start over. :-|

        The good news is that she loves working there and says her coworkers and customers are wonderful, so. It’ll work out.

        1. Beth Anne*

          AH..I bet it has to do with end of month stuff or something weird. But I’m glad she likes the job and is having a good experience even after the crazy interview process.

  149. Thanks, FY :(*

    Do you try to help somebody who should be job hunting but has a strangely lackadaisical attitude towards it? Six contractors in my office aren’t being renewed at the end of the month, and everyone is trying to be supportive as the job hunt. I’ve been in that situation, and I really sympathize.

    One younger woman, though, seems totally and openly unconcerned–it’s a blend of “the universe will provide” and “I can just get unemployment.” People have sent her contacts and links to jobs that are in her arena, and she just shrugs them off. She seems surprised that other contractors are so stressed and looking so hard. All of it has me cringing.

    She doesn’t have a lot of work experience, and she’s only okay at her job–should I try to tell her plainly that in her position I would be taking things more seriously?

    1. Snark*

      I mean, you could try, but….there are just some people who have to learn from experience, and she is probably one of them. If your response to a layoff/contract end is “the universe/unemployment office will provide,” I’m not particularly confident that someone whose thinking is running along those lines is going to become proactive on the basis of a talk. My feeling is that she’s really in denial and scared witless, and taking an avoidant approach to that. But I think you could say something briefly and once. if for no other reason than to clear your own conscience.

    2. AeroEngineer*

      Honestly, I have dealt with a lot of people like this, and the best for my sanity now a-days is to just let them be and let them figure it out themselves. I have to repeat the mantra of “not my problem” especially when it is people close to me acting like that, but I have found that it causes way more trouble and no productive outcome to try and force my view.

      You could mention it, but what will it really get you or her? I assume she will just ignore you unless she really looks up to you, and it might cause more trouble than it is worth. This is the most likely outcome since other people are already sending her things and she is surprised people are so stressed.

      However if you actually think she will listen to you, you can always try.

    3. Sloan Kittering*

      I wouldn’t unless you’re her good friend. For all you know, her husband makes all the money and her job is non-essential, or she’s got an inheritance to fall back on, or her best friend owns a company that can always add another widget director.

      2. Thanks, FY :(*

        I have enough information to know that in her position (no family money, no irons in the fire) she is not being wise.

        Also, I wouldn’t say we’re friends, but all of this I know–everyone knows–because she is very, very chatty and really likes to share. She’ll talk at somebody about her life story for 20+ minutes and all I can think is “you seriously have more important things to do right now.”

        But I think everyone is right that saying something isn’t going to make any difference, especially if observing her fellow contractors’ efforts isn’t. I shouldn’t let my own mild irritation (she isn’t great at reading the room, plus as a taxpayer I can’t say I love how willing she would be to fall back on unemployment) change anything. I’ll even try to be sympathetic if last-minute panic hits right at the end.

    4. Anonymeece*

      Unless she’s a friend, I would say no.

      People are trying to help, but she’s making it pretty clear that she doesn’t want it. Who knows, maybe she’s independently wealthy.

      At this point, though, this is her mistake to make.

    5. MissDisplaced*

      Nah! Some people just have to learn this life lesson the hard way.
      Or, she really doesn’t care and/or has other plans and thus is unconcerned.

    6. LQ*

      Oddly reading Ringworld and thinking of these people as Teelas makes me a lot more relaxed about it. I’d definitely just shrug and let her handle it. You shouldn’t stress for someone else in a case like this. (If you were roommates or married, maybe a little stress, but definitely not a coworker.)

    7. Jessica Fletcher*

      No. If you were close friends with her, sure, but it sounds like you’re not. It might be ok to say, one time only, something like, “I was laid off before, and unfortunately it took much longer than expected to find a new job. Would you be interested in some tips I learned from my experience?” If she says no, don’t mention it again or that would be overstepping.

      It’s also worth noting, IMO, that she might have other circumstances that you don’t know about which give her good reason to be unconcerned. Maybe she’s independently wealthy and can easily afford not to work. Maybe her spouse or significant other or parents are well-off, and they don’t mind supporting her while she job searches. Maybe she has hated this job and is super glad to have an excuse to get out! You never know.

    8. Crylo Ren*

      What would you hope to gain from telling her that, when she hasn’t taken anything else seriously? It’s not really your problem, and you shouldn’t waste your time.

    9. Kathenus*

      I think an offer to assist if she wants it, and then drop it. As others have said on this site, don’t put more effort into helping someone find a job than they are willing to do themselves, generally speaking. You say she’s a younger woman, so this might also be a life lesson that helps her be more proactive in the future.

  150. ZLR*

    First week back at work after several months on leave and while people have welcomed me back, and I’ve met with my managers to discuss potential tasks, I still haven’t been given anything specific to do. My work is project based, so I’ve been catching up on the state of the projects, and I know they’ve been used to being without me but…I also need some tasks. Going a little stir-crazy and don’t want to be pesky, but it also screws with my sense of being a valued employee. But maybe I just need to be more patient about this transtion? Blergh.

    1. Lilo*

      I would explicitly speak up to your boss or whoever assigns projects. And explicitly ask coworkers if you can get on anything in progress, if your work allows. Be a squeaky wheel.

  151. Sloan Kittering*

    Just need to vent, I was told in my interview that this position would have work from home flexibility and I was picturing at least once a week (perhaps with some kind of probation period first, no problem). Since I’ve started here, it’s clear that nobody works from home with any regularity and they mean like, “it would be okay to come in a little late one day if you have a specific appointment that you email us about.” Now because the whole conversation was via phone call I can’t be sure exactly who made the wrong assumption but I’m pretty positive she deliberately let me believe it was better than it was (since the discussion was around how they couldn’t meet my desired salary).

    1. The New Wanderer*

      Oh, ouch. I actually declined to go further in an interview because I assumed that as a competitive tech company with worldwide offices and frequent collaborations between those offices, they would offer some WFH flexibility (who needs butts in seats when most of the people on your call are remote wrt you?). The HR recruiter clarified that their “flexibility” was like you describe – the rare morning at home for an appointment, but no regular WFH.

      That attitude combined with the terrible commute was too much for me. I’m really glad the recruiter was up front about it! Sorry you were misled.

    2. Kate Daniels*

      Ugh, I went through something similar in a previous job (that I have since left). They deliberately made it seem like employees would be allowed to work from home once a week, but in reality, it was a max of two days a month if you also didn’t take any sick or vacation days that month and if it didn’t conflict with any meetings, which actually made it so that you’d never be able to take a day.

  152. Theresa*

    I had 2 interviews last week. The job I REALLY wanted I got an email that they had a lot of qualified candidates and they picked someone else blah blah blah. I thought I had a really good chance. I answered all her questions in what seemed like a good way. It’s so frustrating when I feel like I do everything right but then never seem to get passed the interviews.

    The 2nd interview I’m not interested in working there. Plus they were annoyed I couldn’t start for 2-3 weeks as I need to give a notice. Just b/c your last person didn’t give a good notice doesn’t mean I won’t.

    I go back and forth in going out on my own with freelancing vs getting another job..but a lot of the jobs want ridiculous things like 10 years experience or 1 hour+ commutes. Oh well I’ll keep on going.

  153. Jane*

    How do people stay enthusiastic at work when they’re in a workplace/job that isn’t completely right for them? Issues in this workplace mean I’m losing my motivation, but I’m in a *very* specialist profession with little staff turnover and lots of qualified applicants, so may be here for years to come.

    2. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      Is this a work trip? Are you looking for advice about interacting with Japanese clients/partners/vendors/etc?

    3. instafamous*

      Hi! No just for fun. Am meeting a friend for an event and then I just have 10 days of vacation. I’ve never been anywhere in Asia.

    4. Amber Rose*

      Try posting this again tomorrow on the weekend free-for-all. Friday’s open thread is just for work related discussions. :)

    5. Catherine*

      I’ve been to both a few years ago, it was pretty great – I’m sure you’ll enjoy it.

      Everything was pretty expensive – food, travel, but especially hotels. They were smaller and simpler than I expected for the money.
      You don’t tip in restaurants – it seems to be seen as very rude. For example I was in a restaurant in Kyoto and an American couple were very insistently trying to leave a tip in cash, with I’m sure the very best of intentions, and the waitress became quite distressed and was almost begging them to take their money. When we left the restaurant shortly afterward, we just quietly took our change and left.

  155. Anonanonanonanonanon*

    Next week my department is having a meeting to discuss a tool everyone is supposed to be using, and has supposed to have been using for several years. I was part of a pilot at work when we first got the tool, so I’m more familiar with it than anyone and probably use it more than anyone.

    Here’s the problem: every time this type of discussion comes up, there’s a cluster of folks who BARELY use the tool who complain about the tool. They bash it, but in subjective terms like “too difficult” or “too time consuming” etc. Meanwhile, I think it’s very easy to use, and takes me almost no time. In fact it saves me time. But it’s not just a matter of using the tool, it’s also using the processes the company laid out for using the tool. There is absolutely a difficult, time consuming, convoluted way to do it. And then there’s what we were asked to do. I’m pretty sure they’re doing the former and I’m doing the latter.

    It seems like we’re sort of at an impasse with them saying it’s hard/long/bad and me saying it’s easy/quick/good, and I don’t think either side will convince the other. I want to say “you can’t dismiss the process without putting in a good faith effort at doing the process”, but they come back with not having time to learn the process, even though I do have stats that show I’m way faster and more efficient than they are at all tasks that involve this process. But they tend to argue that I’m just fast in general. It’s a situation where people who are bogged down in work would rather keep doing the inefficient thing they know than make the time to learn a new way that might be faster because of the temporary delay caused by the learning curve.

    I feel really ganged up on when this happens but I don’t know how to make it better. I don’t know how to be a productive member of the next discussion. I don’t want to just give up and not say anything, but I feel sort of stuck on the defensive, and I don’t want to bash my colleagues, but at the same time “this is hard” “no it’s not” isn’t productive.

    Anyone have words of wisdom for me or been in a similar situation?

    1. designbot*

      Are you the lead of the department, or are these your peers?
      To me this sounds like a situation where at some point if it’s really important to the company that this team uses these tools/processes, you put an end date on it. As in, you can take one more month to learn this, or you can take one month of severance and we’ll fill your role with someone capable of doing the job.

    2. Gorgonzola*

      It sounds like you are making quite a few assumptions about what they are doing and thinking. I recommend really listening to them, not jumping to conclusions, not getting defensive and assuming they’re just doing it wrong, and trying to find out what their concerns really are. What are they finding too hard or time-consuming about it? Is it a lack of training, lack of documentation, poor fit with workflow needs, or what? You say their complaints are too subjective – so dig into them and help them clarify those complaints. Then you can try to actually address them, instead of dismissing them. And if they feel heard and respected, instead of dismissed and ignored, they may be more likely to engage with the process.

      1. Seriously?*

        Why don’t both sides give a demonstration of what they are talking about? You can bring an example that you use the tool to do and show how it made it faster than the old way. They can bring an example of where the tool makes things more difficult and show how it is doing that. Then you can see if they are doing something wrong,or if there are a subset of tasks that they have and you don’t that the tool is making more difficult. Also, they can see how the tool might actually help.

        1. BRR*

          This is a good point. If everyone is only talking about the tool without showing how it’s used, it probably isn’t very helpful.

    3. BRR*

      I would ask them to go into detail. Then approach it as “I want to help you.” You can also provide your easier methods by saying “here’s what I do that I found useful.” I’ve also used the phrase “shot-term pain, long-term gain” quite a few times.

      But it’s not uncommon for people to just resist change. If you’re just dismissing them this will never end, but if you try and work with them and they refuse to learn after offers of help, you can then just end the conversation with “That offer to help is always on the table.”

    4. Kathenus*

      I had the same question as designbot about whether or not you are a lead or manager in the department. If you are a peer to the people who don’t want to use it, then you are likely fighting an unnecessary battle to convince coworkers to use a tool if they don’t want to. The manager or organization needs to decide if the tool is an option for people to use, or a required one that must be implemented. If you’re asked, you can give feedback of why it works well for you and the benefits it gives you in your work, but no reason to try to argue or convince them to switch if it’s not your role to direct their work. You just keep being fast and efficient :)

      1. Anonanonanonanonanon*

        I am neither a peer nor a manager…or I guess…it depends. I’m above some, below others. This is a department-wide thing that was rolled out. Everyone was expected to do it. Management set that expectation but then never followed through on accountability. Then a bunch of time passed. There are five levels of people involved here, and I’m directly in the middle.
        The type of stuff Gorganzola suggested we have done already, as a group (although it’s been a while). The bulk of the things they were complaining about being frustrating are equally frustrating in OldSystem, basically, the flaws are the same, but are also things that generally don’t come up frequently. I asked a few questions in the past about whether the amount of time my role spends on (annoying thing) is significantly less than their roles? Because the true “you’re right, it does suck at that” were things that take up maybe five minutes a month to work around. So I acknowledged that maybe their work is different enough from mine that it disproportionately affects them. I didn’t get an answer. A couple of the things they said were difficult were them not using it correctly and pointed out the one-minute method I use to do same thing they were doing in a 10-minute way, which was met by a few oohs and ah. The other upsides I pointed out about New System were pretty much met with “well yeah but…we still don’t like it”.

        There has also been major turnover in leadership recently. So Person in Charge doesn’t really know how anything works. The impression I got is that this new meeting is happening because enough people complained to NewBoss that ThingSucks that he wants to hear everyone’s thoughts about Thing, but possibly by starting from the assumption that ThingSucks And How Shall We Fix It? And my suggestion is “it may not need fixing, we all just need to start actually using it consistently”. I’m trying really hard not to give identifying details but think of it like if you instituted electronic timecards, and people were coming off timekeeping in Excel. And my position is: enter time in the electronic system and be done. And their position is: it’s so annoying because first I enter everything into Excel, and then I have to go put it into the electronic system, and I have so much stuff to do, but I still have my records here in Excel, so can’t I just give you that because it’s done? And what Management wants is for everyone to just enter it once in the electronic system, but for reasons I have never understood, seems to be completely unwilling to say “Enter it once there. That is our policy.” It IS our policy. It’s written official policy. But nobody seems to be enforcing the policy, and because this is of course more complex that just a simple double-entry-shadow-database problem, when we got new management who doesn’t understand the reasoning behind why we (were supposed to) go the way we did and stop doing what some people have been continuing to do, new management was of course trying to be receptive to feedback from staff. And being receptive, we’re now having this roundtable to bail on an efficiency improvement 85% of the staff never implemented, because they decided it was a failure without even trying.

        So that’s where I’m coming from.

        1. Kathenus*

          Thanks for the extra info. I think my recommendation would stay the same. NewBoss wants to hear everyone’s thoughts on the Thing – so offer your thoughts to the boss. You like it, it helps you do x and y and saves you z amount of time. That’s it. You don’t need to even address other people not liking it, let them give their feedback and you give yours. Then let NewBoss decide what to do with it. You don’t have to convince anyone to use it or not to use it, just answer NewBoss’s question and let them handle it from there.

          You appear to be really dedicated and conscientious and you want to help the organization move forward. But if you’re not in a position to make the bigger decision or more importantly make people comply or change their behavior, don’t put yourself in the position of trying to change their minds without the authority or responsibility to do so.

        2. designbot*

          So then at the end of the day, what is the impact on you that they aren’t using the system correctly? Does it cause more work for you, or is their work incompatible with your work and cause issues for others that you’re choosing to be a champion for?
          Or, is the downside for you just being pulled into this type of meeting repeatedly where you all go around and around about it? If that’s the case, then I’d probably try to opt out by being like “I’m actually already on board with this system and complying with company policies around it, so unless we’re planning on changing those policies the best use of my time is to continue project work.”

          1. Anonanonanonanonanon*

            It both causes more work for me, makes their work incompatible with my work, makes it take longer to train new people, causes issues for said new people who don’t have what they need because the people not using the tool correctly didn’t do it, and extra bonus downside is being pulled into this type of meeting repeatedly.
            My fear is also that Management will somehow be convinced “ok, the old way is better, that’s now the official way, moving forward everyone do that instead” at which point I will promptly vanish into a puff of logic.

    5. Ann O.*

      No words of wisdom, but yes, I’ve been in a similar-ish situation. I had to roll out a tool to my old team. This was mandatory (old tool was disabled) and everyone did switch. But people couldn’t be bothered to actually learn how to use the new tool, so they did a lot of things suboptimally and then complained about the tool.

      I created written procedures. I did team meeting demos. I did in-person demos. New hires with new tool experience came in and provided peer help as well as proved that it really was possible for people other than me to use the new tool (I was completely self-taught in the tool).

      None of it mattered. I don’t know if there was some legitimate reason that I never figured out why they couldn’t learn this, or if it was just intense change aversion creating a mental barrier. These were smart people who regularly worked with far more difficult tools. It was so bizarre to me.

  156. Bob (looking for a job)*

    Question re: A suit vs suit separates.

    I’ve finished college and am job hunting. Every job I’ve applied for in my chosen field has the same thing (every employee must wear a suit or suit separates) in the job posting and/or the information given at a job interview. It’s about the dress code and I’m not sure exactly what it means or what the difference is. If anyone could explain I would appreciate it! Thanks!

    1. wingmaster*

      Suits, or nested suits, usually come with both jacket and pants with matching sizes and fabric. But sometimes, one can fit in the suit, but the pants don’t. So that’s where the suit separates are helpful in.

      With suit separates, you can potentially buy multiple pants for each jacket, etc. I think that’s an advantage, but with suits, you get matching colors/fabric!

    2. Corky's Wife Bonnie*

      It’s pretty much the same thing. If you buy a suit, you buy the pants and sport coat together (and it’s usually a certain size). When you get the separates, you buy the pants and sport coat separately. Usually the stores will have the matching pants and sport coats together on a rack. It’s very helpful to buy the separates because you may be pretty large/broad in the shoulder area, but thinner in the waist and hips. This works really well for my husband, he’s handicapped and has a very strong and athletic build through his shoulders, but his hiney and hips are very small and his legs are short. It’s impossible for him to buy whole suits to fit his frame.

    3. MissDisplaced*

      Suit: Matching materials and color meant to be worn as a set.
      Suit Separates: Different pieces that are still structured suiting attire (blazer and pants or skirt or dress) but may be composed of different colors or materials. For women think maybe a soft flowy skirt or dress paired with a blazer, or for men, maybe navy dress slacks with a tan tweed sports jacket.

      Generally, suit separates read as being a bit more relaxed and show more individuality in how they’re put together while still being very professional and give the appearance of wearing a “suit.”

    4. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      Will you be wearing men’s or women’s suits?

      “Suit separates” refers to the various pieces of a suit: a jacket; trousers, a skirt, or a dress; and maybe a vest (for three-piece suit).

      “Suit separates” as a dress code is not something I’ve heard before, but I would assume that it means “mixing and matching” these kinds of items.

      For people who present as women, that could mean a black blazer with herringbone trousers, a patterned blazer over a colored suiting dress, etc.

      For people who present as men, this could mean a blazer or sport coat over trousers and a collared shirt. Blazers and sport coats are subtly different from suit jackets — the main thing being that they’re not designed to match exactly. (It’s not recommended to wear the pieces of a suit separately from each other because they can fade differently and stop matching perfectly).

      Pictures in a separate comment!

      1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

        Women’s suits: https://corporette.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/mid-range-suits-for-women-lawyers.jpg

        Women’s blazer & trousers: https://www.brooksbrothers.com/Loro-Piana®-Two-Button-Wool-Blazer/WJ00225,default,pd.html

        Men’s suit: https://www.express.com/clothing/men/slim-blue-performance-stretch-wool-blend-suit-pant/pro/03250813/color/BLUE/

        Men’s sport coat outfit: https://www.neimanmarcus.com/p/giorgio-armani-plaid-viscose-sport-coat-prod205840044

  157. Tiffany*

    Does anyone ever have a problem with co-workers who over-organize/clean? Where I work, there are a few shared work spaces which everyone uses. Typically, these work spaces have some key supplies that are neatly laid out and organized. However, some of my co-workers have taken it upon themselves to “clean up” these spaces by putting literally everything away, even though it has been standard practice to leave the commonly used supplies where they are. This results in my having to spend an extra 5-10 minutes to try and find everything I need before I can even start working. It’s especially infuriating if I get everything set up at one of the work spaces, leave for 15 minutes, and come back to find everything gone!

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      It sounds as if they’re well-intentioned but just ignorant. I don’t think it’s passive-aggressive to just leave a sign up that says “Please don’t put away the commonly used supplies. Thanks!”

    2. wingmaster*

      When I worked at my college as an RA, one of the RA’s was definitely someone who over-organized/clean. Every year, we always organized our office for the new school year. However, he would even wash the walls…like he took it upon himself to get a bucket of water with soap, towels, and a mop to scrub down our office walls.

    3. Corky's Wife Bonnie*

      I was working on a major time crunch to get some packets out to various customers, so I had the binder clips all laid out and lined up on my desk (they always get stuck together in the container) to save me some time. I had someone relieve me for a quick potty break (I also run the switchboard) and I came back and they were all put away, it a large bowl and they all got hooked together. She said, “oh, I had to do that because that drives me crazy.” I said, “this is my desk and I had it like that for a reason and now you just set me back in time.” If she wasn’t my friend, I would have been more cross. I got a cheery “oopsie!” and that’s it. Oooof, I was boiling by that time.

    4. CBE*

      Flashback to my college roommate who once threw out my newly cooked meal when I stepped into my bedroom to grab a book to study while I ate. Because she didn’t like stuff left unattended in common areas. Like the kitchen in our suite. Man I hated her so much.

    5. Positive Reframer*

      Maybe a desk organizer type of apparatus that is labeled so it is clearly where they belong?

      I get that some people have such compulsions but you don’t get to do unnecessary work that makes others do unnecessary work.

      I would be livid.

  158. Peaches*

    My (male) coworker who is a sales rep sent me an email that reads:

    “Subway order confirmation attached. (Our company name) to deliver to (Customer’s Company Name) on Wednesday, 9/12 at 11:45 AM.”

    Delivering food orders for customers has literally nothing to do with my job. I have never delivered food (or anything) to a customer, and very rarely even leave the office for my job. I’ve worked here for three years, and am one of two females in my small office of fourteen people (the other is 30 years older than me and a manager.) The coworker who sent me the email has not addressed it with me in person. I do know (just from overhearing him talk to others) that he will be on vacation next week. I’m not sure if he’s asking me to do this as a favor to him while he’s out, but I find the email bizarre. For what it’s worth, there are two males around my age (mid 20’s) who are lower on the food chain than I am. I am by no means a feminist, but knowing this individual for three years, he absolutely strikes me as the kind of person who would intentionally appoint woman for this sort of thing. The tone of the email assumes I’ll be doing this favor for him, without even asking what my schedule is like (not to mention that again this is not in the slightest a job duty of mine).

    How do I respond to this email? I do not want to make this delivery to his customer (who, by the way, is 45 miles away from our office), nor do I feel like I should have to.

    1. CBE*

      “What is this? It seems to have nothing to do with my job. Maybe it was meant for someone else?”

      How he answers that will determine your next step.

    2. ThatGirl*

      I would definitely play dumb and act as though it can’t possibly be for you.

      “Hey, I think you sent me this by mistake – I don’t handle this sort of thing. Thanks!”

      1. BRR*

        This is what I would do. If he responds asking you to do this (more likely to tell you to do this), tell him you don’t have the capacity to take on tasks that are far outside your role.

      2. designbot*

        I’d play even dumber and not say outright that I don’t do this sort of thing. I’d just be like “Hey I think this was intended for someone else.” and that’s that. Like, it’s *so obvious* that this isn’t your job that *of course* he must’ve meant to email someone else.
        And maybe he did. Who knows.

    3. AeroEngineer*

      My friend had something like this happen to her, and she just sent it to someone she knew in HR to deal with it and it got taken care of. While perhaps that is a bit over the top for something like this, I would definitely ask him what he wants with this email, if he sent it to the right person, etc. All innocently of course, for the first email.

      And if he is gone, then there should be someone taking care of his work. I would seriously push back on this (being female in tech), and definitely would not do the delivery.

      It could be a mistaken email, or something more sinister, but if you are confused, then clear that up first, then take care of the problem.

    4. Yojo*

      Since you only know he’s going to be on vacation from others, I’d say you would be perfectly fine asking writing back with something like “I’m unclear–is there a reason you wanted me to have a heads-up on this?”

      Act confused that he’s even informing you about the order–don’t even acknowledge that you think he’s trying to delegate it.

    6. LCL*

      He thinks you will make a 90 mile round trip to deliver Subway sandwiches? What does your supervisor/manager think about that?

      1. Peaches*

        Apparently so, which I find ridiculous. It would take up at least two hour of my day doing something wildly outside of my job duties.

        Not sure what he thinks – he’s out of the office today, so I haven’t yet addressed it with him. He’s very new and still getting his bearings straight on what everyone does here. So for all I know, he may be the type of person to say, “well, if you wouldn’t mind doing it, it would be helpful.” But, he’s also been reasonable enough so far that if I were to gently remind him that I have other job responsibilities totally unrelated to this, he would respect and understand that.

        1. Beth Anne*

          If he wants to provide lunch to one of your clients I don’t get why he doesn’t get something delivered to them instead of having you or someone else drive 2 hours….seems like a waste of the companies resources.

    7. RickTq*

      I’d reply (cc’ing his boss AND yours) asking who will pay your time and the business travel mileage reimbursement for this delivery? If the company doesn’t provide a car for this they are required to reimburse you..

      1. Peaches*

        I do get reimbursed on the (rare) occasion that I leave the office for travel purposes. It’s more the fact that I would be driving for something wildly outside of my job duties. It would take up at least two hours of my workday.

      2. The New Wanderer*

        I wouldn’t do this because it basically says you accept his assumption that you will take up this task and now it’s about the cost, and you really, really shouldn’t accept the assumption in the first place.

    8. Susan K*

      Ooh, I would be really tempted to be passive-aggressive about it and simply ignore the e-mail because you assumed he copied you on it by accident and/or FYI since it has nothing to do with you. It didn’t specifically say “Peaches will deliver the food,” right? And neither he nor your manager asked you to do it, right? Seems like Not Your Problem.

      1. Peaches*

        Honestly, I am tempted to do that because as you said it’s Not My Problem.

        I know I wouldn’t get reprimanded for ignoring the email (because any reasonable person in my position would assume I wasn’t the intended recipient).

        I’m rather confused why he’s having our company pick it up and deliver it, anyway. I mapped the Subway to the customer’s business, and it’s a 5 minute drive. I can’t imagine it would have cost much more to have it delivered.

      2. RickTq*

        Sounds like a blunt question to Sales Rep, his boss, and yours. “Why was I included in this email to the customer and what delivery method did you have in mind? Did you already arrange for delivery?”

    9. Nita*

      I have so many questions. Was there an attached confirmation for a sandwich order? Why would your company deliver sandwiches to a customer 45 miles away – do they not have their own deli nearby? Is it supposed to be for a meeting, or as a thank-you? It’s possible there’s no explanation because he meant to send the email to someone else who knows what this is about, and sent it to you by mistake. In which case, respond to him before he leaves for the day – maybe he needs to get that email to the right person ASAP.

      A few of my coworkers misdirect emails and documents to me all the time. The person they’re meant for doesn’t even have a similar name, but we’re in the same department and have the same initials, so mix-ups happen. A couple of times I legit thought the files are for me, because they came from someone who likes to email first and then explain things in person.

    10. Goodatplayingdumb*

      Yeah, I’d go with “I think you must have meant this for someone else!” line. It could be true, even.

    11. Kathenus*

      Combining parts of various other responses, I’d keep it short and sweet.

      Reply to him, cc your boss and his boss.

      “Sorry, you must have sent this to me by mistake.”

      No questions, requests for more information, just the statement that it was sent in error and never think of it again.

    12. Lissa*

      Please let us know how this turns out, if you do respond! I am really curious as to what he’ll end up saying. (I vote for asking if he meant it for someone else, or similar wording.)

  159. Parker*

    I am hiring an office manager in a 40-person tech company. Our workforce (mostly engineers) is overwhelmingly white and male. I am a white woman in a non-technical role. I would really like to add a woman of color to our team, but I am a little worried about having one of the only women and non-white people at the company be in a service-oriented and lower-paying position (among other things, this person would be in charge of lunches and the kitchen, and administrative support for other employees). There are a ton of qualified applicants for this position, so I am choosing among equals of all genders and races. Do you think adding to the diversity of our team is worth having the only woman of color in the company be in a visibly service-oriented and generally less-prestigious position?

    I think I’m leaning toward hiring a black woman, but I worry about the optics of this job being what the only woman of color in our office does. I think it could be a good opportunity for someone (there is a lot of potential for growth, whether as an office manager of a bigger and bigger company or into other areas) so that ameliorates some of my discomfort. Any thoughts?

    p.s. I don’t mean to denigrate the important work this person will do – I have been an office manager previously and have been doing all of these tasks along with my other roles for a year until we were big enough to have a separate office manager. But I know from experience that it can feel a bit servile to do things like unload the dishwasher and order toilet paper, and while people in my company are respectful, it is a role that is often looked down upon.

    1. MechanicalPencil*

      Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t you supposed to be hiring the best person for the position, not the best race/ethnicity for the position? If the best person also happens to be more ethnically diverse, there’s a cherry on top. Or if you have two candidates, and one makes your company more ethnically diverse, cheers all around. But I feel like you’re approaching this the wrong way.

      1. Kim, Ranavain*

        The fact that you have this knee-jerk reaction here is common, but really troubling. I’ve linked in my name to something I wrote about this exact dynamic; I presume you have no idea how negative your comment really is. Please read it. OP has given you no indication that they’re *not* hiring the best person for the job, so for you to jump to the conclusion that they are “approaching this the wrong way” based only on the information that they have *noticed and care about* the racial dynamics of their team is, again, really troubling and a bias you need to examine in yourself.

        1. MechanicalPencil*

          As a diversity hire myself, I fully understand how apparently negative my comment is. I’ve not gotten a job because of my gender or skin color or what have you. My comment was not meant as negative — I just read three-ish paragraphs fully concerned with racial dynamics (a valid concern) with only one sentence mentioning that the candidates are apparently of equal abilities, something that I feel should bear more weight.

          1. Kim, Ranavain*

            Sure, but OP isn’t asking for help determining who is the most qualified; it’s clear that the thing they’re concerned about is the racial dynamics of being the only POC in an organization, and being in an administrative position, and wanting to talk out how to navigate that with this or other candidates.

            If the question were about almost anything else, this wouldn’t be coming up. Say OP were mulling over a candidate who speaks Spanish. It’s not essential to the job, say, but would be handy and this person would be the only person on staff able to speak Spanish. Nobody would be jumping in here like “well, Spanish or no, make sure you’re hiring the best person.” Because we don’t instinctively see a conflict with “the best person” vs “speaks Spanish.” We can easily understand how speaking Spanish might be beneficial to a given role.

            You and others in this thread who are getting caught up in this idea of “the best person” vs “diversity hire” are assuming (or, if you prefer, projecting that you’re assuming) that there’s an inherent conflict between the two, and/or presuming (or, coming off as though you presume) that there’s no specific value to the organization to have someone with a different perspective.

            The piece I linked to above referenced tons of evidence that diverse teams get better results. Organizations have a bottom-line interest in having a diverse staff, but you, and others, feel the need to come here and act like it’s never occurred to OP to hire the best-qualified person for the role, in ways that *only seem to happen* when we’re talking about diversity, as opposed to other traits or skills that aren’t specifically required by the job posting.

            If you don’t feel like that actually describes you or your intent, I would strongly suggest you figure out better ways to communicate this, because “no, hire the best” as a direct (and oppositional) response to “we care about diversity” is a well-worn and super common dynamic that encourages us to ignore all the other well-worn dynamics that cause us to discriminate against people. If you don’t want to be lumped in with people making that argument, you should make a different one.

        2. Nacho*

          Reading Parker’s post, it’s not clear if she meant she has a specific black woman in mind, who is best for the job, or if she’s treating “being black and female” as a qualification she’s looking for in her new employee.

          I feel like you and MechanicalPencil read the post in different ways, and mean different things in your responses.

      2. Parker*

        As I mentioned, there are a ton of qualified applicants for this position, so I am choosing among equals of all genders and races.

    2. Kim, Ranavain*

      I think you’re right to be concerned, but ultimately, the goal here should be hiring for a more diverse staff at all levels, and denying a job to a well-qualified black woman (who self-selected into the job) isn’t the answer. I do think it means you need to be especially mindful of how you manage her, though, knowing that she’s in a rough spot. Make sure you, she, and the entire team are crystal clear on what is her job and what isn’t, and make sure you have her back if conflicts arise along those lines. And honestly, don’t be afraid to talk about this dynamic with her explicitly. Definitely don’t force her to talk about her race at work if she’s clearly objecting, but I imagine it’s helpful to know that one’s manager understands the racial dynamic one is up against and is OK with talking about it. Create that space and help her thrive in the career she’s choosing.

      And definitely do everything you can to ensure future hires at *all* levels are fielding a diverse crowd. <3

      1. Parker*

        You make a good point that this person is self-selecting into the job – I should respect that she is choosing this, especially since I did no sugar-coating of the role and she can see the racial/gender makeup of the company. I would be more comfortable if we had even one other black person in a higher-level position so she wasn’t the only one, but I guess you have to start somewhere.

    3. Evil HR Person*

      I’m with Mechanical Pencil. I understand wanting diversity, but hire the right person for the job. That said, as other positions become open, it would behoove your company to do outreach to under-represented minorities, not just POC (although you can start there), but also women, veterans, and the disabled. And then you have a larger pool of candidates from which to choose the perfect person for the role you’re trying to fill. Hire the black woman if she’s the best person for this job, though. Don’t let the fact that you’re concerned about the optics stop you from offering the job to the best candidate.

    4. Susan K*

      I get where you’re coming from, and I think you mean well, but you are getting into dangerous territory by considering not hiring someone because of her race and/or gender. You have a legitimate concern about the optics of having the only woman of color in a low-paying, service-oriented role, but the answer to that isn’t to avoid hiring a woman of color for that role; it’s to work toward increasing diversity at all levels. In other words, the probably isn’t hiring a woman and/or person of color for a low-level role; the problem is failing to hire women and people of color for higher roles.

    5. Student*

      If I understand you correctly, you are asking us this:

      “I have a qualified black woman candidate for this job. I lean toward hiring her for this role. However, I’m worried that some other, vague, unspecified people will find a black woman in this role off-putting. Should I hire to please the people that I have invented in my imagination who might find this black woman performing her job upsetting, or should I hire the person I think best qualified that I want to hire?”

      The answer is that you should hire the well-qualified black woman who is your first choice for the role. And then you should have a long, hard look at those imaginary, disapproving people in your head who tried to talk you out of it, because they are a part of you. I’ve heard the book White Fragility, by DiAngelo, might help you navigate the internal battle you are struggling with. It’s actually a pretty normal thing, but it seems like you’d love some well-qualified advice on how to handle it.

      The part where your imaginary audience finds this black woman off-putting because she’d be at the low end of your org’s totem pole? The supposed “benevolent” racism thing? That is a red herring. The core objection you’ve brought up is still that she’d somehow be off-putting in the role, reflecting badly on you and your org merely for working while black.

    6. Triple Anon*

      The discomfort would come from a real issue that should make people uncomfortable – they’ve only hired white male engineers. Maybe it would inspire them to diversify the engineering team. In other words, in the long run, it would not be a bad thing, so don’t worry about it.

  160. Relosa*

    Wheeew long time since I posted. Of course, now is the time I want to go public but I have to stay anon for this.

    I currently work PT for a family owned business. Honest to glob things are going truly great and for once it’s a good fit, so this isn’t “my boss is terrible what do I do?”

    Butttttt

    My bosses are husband/wife and the wife is constantly stressed out over her kids. They have two boys in elementary school. The elder boy, “River” is having some academic issues, refusing to do homework, getting low self-esteem (“It’s too hard, I’m too dumb” etc, when that isn’t the case.) A couple times a week between errands after class they end up at the office hanging out and working on homework while mom and dad finish up other things.

    The younger boy has no problems, aside from being a regular kindergartner is pretty good about doing whatever work he has or staying on task. Because he’s obedient and outgoing, the difference in the way the mom treats them is night and day. She is SO hard on “River”–scaring him with “you’re going to be homeless and eating trash when you grow up if you don’t do your work, that’s why we work hard,” and just now was laughing at me over a story where she and her husband reverse-psyched the kid about shaving his head if he doesn’t do his homework, like making it a joke and it terrified both boys. This happens a lot when they are in the office working around me.

    The mom sometimes vents to me later, she knows she’s not doing things “right” but admits she gets anxious and worried for River and is hard on him because of it. She knows she treats them differently, and it’s pretty easy to tell his behavior just gets under skin and she knows she lets it get to her (plus all the other stresses of being a busy parent with multiple business responsibilities, and her husband is partly disabled even though he works full time, he needs a lot of assistance from her). Just now when she told me the head-shaving story I didn’t even have a response because I had nothing nice to say about it. She was giggling about it as if I’d find it amusing; I do not at all. And it turns out that they did get to the bottom of River’s problem/behavior–he’s having hard time clicking with his teacher and wanted to be in a different class (which isn’t going to change), but I’m unsure if the threat to shave his head was before or after his admission.

    Anyone else with oversharing/over-stressed bosses openly manipulating their kids in front of you? Boss and I are the same age but I don’t have kids. I just don’t know how to respond lest I get the “well you’re not a mom” response regardless of any response I offer. Honest to goodness this is otherwise great job and I love working with the family (And the kids are sweethearts when they can take a break and we can chat). I just don’t know how to handle this particular topic.

    1. Nita*

      Not me, but my husband used to work with a higher-up who was constantly sharing her parenting struggles. I’m really reminded of that situation, because she saw herself as a mom who’s knocking herself out to do good things for her son – but from the outside, it looked like a parenting train wreck and it was clear she wasn’t doing him any favors. Her son is much older (recently graduated college), so for the most part my husband just kept his fingers crossed that the kid will move out of his parents’ house soon and breathe a little easier – but a few times, he did gently suggest to the mom that maybe she needs to relax, stop worrying, and stop trying to control his every move.

      I’m a horrible parent myself, but I’m still really sad for River. I think, since there don’t seem to be any other adults standing up for him, you should just say what you think. Sure, there are things that those who aren’t parents really don’t get, but this isn’t one of them. It seems his mom is having a hard time relating to him as a person, maybe not even on purpose, but it might help if she gets your perspective on how her behavior looks from the outside. If you say “That really isn’t funny. Either help your son with his homework or stop stressing about his academics, but don’t mess with his head like this” will she blow up? Stop and think? Both?

      1. Relosa*

        I think part of it is that I did experience some similar manipulation from my own parents at that age and I too had a hard time staying motivated to do homework (I didn’t learn to study til my later years in college). Of course there wer ea number of other things beyond that, but I have zero relationship with my parents now, as in total non-contact for several years, so I worry about both confirming their fears (I’m definitely always on my tiptoes financially and struggle a lot, getting back on it thanks to this job) and also preaching to them since the sitautions have similarities but are still different.

        I don’t think she’d blow up, but she definitely doesn’t understand that other approaches exist and can be successful. I might suggest getting in touch with the school counselor to get professional advice–she’s always talking with the principal and teacher but that’s biased IMO.

        1. The New Wanderer*

          I think it might be okay to gently reference your background – a quick mention of “Oh my parents tried those kinds of trick on me, it just made me feel scared a lot and sure didn’t help me want to do homework.” You’re not a parent, but you’ve been on the receiving end of that kind of parenting, so you do have experience she might consider valid to contribute (it is valid of course, the question is whether she’ll listen).

          At the very least you can put it out there that you didn’t like it when your parents did it and it wasn’t helpful (and if you’re lucky, she’ll also infer that you don’t like hearing about them doing it to their kids.)

        2. Positive Reframer*

          Sharing anecdotes from your own life is probably the way to go then. Its hard to argue with personal experience. Maybe framed like “That reminds me of the time when….and it really…(had a negative impact)…But when they tried this…(positive outcome.)”

          Then you aren’t sharing advice so much as a reflection on a possibly similar situation.

          Poor kid

    2. The Ginger Ginger*

      Well first, and this is not on you to solve BUT OMG FAMILY THERAPYYYYYYYYY WTH THIS POOR KID.

      The only real thing I think you can do in the conversation – if you feel like your position is safe enough to do so – is sort of unemotionally/non-accusingly validate the kid’s reactions and change the subject? Just make yourself a not fun recipient to these stories. Like with the headshaving thing – “Wow that sounds like it was really upsetting for him. How do you want me to handle report XYZ?” Is that feasible?

      But. wow. It sounds like she is actively damaging her children, and I’m with you – that is deeply upsetting to have to bear witness to.

    3. valentine*

      Combo of Aggressively Team Kid + studies about parental kindness leading to better outcomes for kids.

  161. Gabriela*

    I just really want to toot my own horn today. I advocated for a promotion for someone who I manage and wasn’t sure if it was going to go through, because right after she asked about WFH after she has a baby (she is about 7 months pregnant) and our company is notoriously anti-WFH. I somehow managed to get both! I feel like a managing queen :)

    1. Rey*

      Round of applause! This sounds like a huge get (that will make a huge difference for your employee)! Way to go!

  162. Anon-A-Llama*

    Today I discovered that LinkedIn has a “career interests” feature, where you can input job titles you are interested in, whether or not you are looking, how soon you’d like a new job, etc. I updated mine today, and I saw that you can make this information visible to recruiters. Has anyone ever done this before? Did it lead to good connections, or was it a bust?

    1. The Ginger Ginger*

      It was kind of a bust for me, BUT I was also working with a very esoteric and confusing job title at the time. If you have a pretty clear role that is easily recognizable/identifable within your industry, you may have more success.

      1. The New Wanderer*

        Same. Glassdoor has a similar thing, and it has the same problems. There are probably 15 job titles that I’m technically qualified for, and they’re all variants of each other. But not all companies use those titles in the same way so I get a lot of misses and very few hits.

    3. I'm A Little Teapot*

      I got a lot more hits from recruiters, but it might depend on you industry. Mine is heavy into recruiters, and linked in is big for them.

  163. The Other CC*

    Usual Friday afternoon vent:

    – A project was promised to a client today by 2 pm. Client engaged delivery drivers and an installer for the work. The work was not ready by 2 pm. Cue me trying to put out the fire via several four-way phone tag sessions. The worst part? I’m the one who recommended that the client use our business.
    – Have you ever tried to hold a public event, garage sale, AND move in the same 2-day period? No? Well you should try it sometime! It’s GREAT and SO FUN and NOT STRESSFUL! /s
    – One of our vendors hasn’t sent us supplies despite placing an order two weeks ago (this order was placed more than a week after at least one of the projects was technically due). The reason? We have too many unpaid balances and they won’t release any more product until we pay up. Sensible – but my boss has done nothing to deal with this despite being emailed a few times. And they’re offsite today.

    I’m considering just saying I’m unavailable for any shifts starting Monday and eating beans and rice to make up for the loss in income until my full-time job starts in a few months. ::headdesk::

  164. Jana*

    I had a phone interview and an in person interview for my dream job, and they said they’d be in touch in three weeks, which is over today. I sent a thank you to the team that interviewed me the Monday after my late Friday interview, but didn’t get a response. I was hoping to shoot an email today asking where they are in the hiring process / if I’m still being considered. Any advice?

    2. The New Wanderer*

      I agree, email on Monday. I’ve never received any acknowledgment of any thank-you email I’ve ever sent, so I don’t think that’s atypical. They definitely won’t think it’s too much if you email once after 3 weeks and their own stated deadline is up.

  165. Kathlynn*

    I have the option of paying to take 2-3 excel courses ($150 each) and sit in a classroom for 8 hours (one day) or buy Microsoft Office (~$120) and take 3 free courses online Said to be 24 hours over 6 weeks per course. I’m not sure which I should do. Because I am bad at controlling my attention (adhd), and remember things like “I need to update my payment source” for the computer. But at the same time, I think 24 hours might cover and be more thorough than 8 hours. I’m doing this to increase my qualifications to get a desk job. (possibly data entry, because I don’t mind repetitive tasks, so long as I can listen to music or audiobooks)

    1. Positive Reframer*

      It would probably be helpful to have your own Excel to play with and practice on. And beyond those free courses there are many many more online courses free and paid you can take if that’s your style.

      For me it would come down to what would be a better learning environment. Are you going to get more through an online course where you can pause and do other things or go back and review but possibly have less accountability or would you learn better where you can ask questions and also possibly network with other students?

    2. EA in CA*

      I found that being able to practice what I learnt in my Excel class and being able to play around with the program effective at helping me retain the knowledge learnt, even from the free classes. But I also think that it depends on how you best learn, as Positive Reframer stated.

    3. The New Wanderer*

      Also keep in mind that the time estimates for courses may vary widely by individual. You can’t change a set 8 hour in person course, but you can work faster or slower when it’s self-paced.

      My experience is with Coursera, but the courses are sometimes listed as taking, say, 20 hours per week, but that includes a 16 hour estimate of practice drills (which in reality have been super fast, <1 hr so far) and 2 hrs per homework assignment (which in reality have taken 10-15 hrs each so far!).

      If you know you'll manage the self-pacing, buying the software and taking the online courses is probably the better deal. If you learn better from an instructor who can answer your specific questions, the in-person classes are probably best. I really like the online classes but I run into snags all the time doing the homework and it's pretty time consuming to figure out what my problem is, how to search for the answer, and then how to apply whatever I've learned to fixing the problem (and repeating the process when the first attempt doesn't work). It's frustrating, but I probably learn more that way, so it's really up to your learning preferences.

    4. Anonymous Educator*

      Do you know if these courses (either in classroom or online) are any good? You have the choice of $120 or $450? Why not split the difference? Get Office for $120 and then find a co-worker who really knows her stuff, and pay her $165 to teach you all the cool basic Office stuff she knows.

      1. Kathlynn*

        Because I work retail most or all of my coworkers wouldn’t be familiar with excel. We just don’t need to.

    5. Catherine*

      In my experience, you need to be able to practice after the training and keep practising until you start using Excel in earnest. The first excel course I went on, I had forgotten most of it by the time I started using it. I had to teach myself again from the materials.

      So, I would suggest that you do buy it, try learning what you can and keep practising, make spreadsheets for your finances, places you’d like to visit/have visited etc. I think there is a lot of online material, and if you are able to break it into chunks and work through it piece by piece, it could work for you.

      If you are working right now, there isn’t any Microsoft Home Use offer at work? I got full MS Office through my company for £10, and I know a lot of financial services companies offer this.

      Once you’ve found your feet, I think there was a thread here that had great Excel tips a while back, well worth a look.

      1. Kathlynn*

        I work retail, for health reasons I’m trying to switch fields and get a desk job. We don’t use Microsoft office at all.

      1. nym*

        Many libraries also have access to paid training through Lynda.com and there are many online tutorials for Excel.

        I would say buy the program and try a couple of youtube classes and see how it goes!

  166. Batshua*

    My performance reviews (I get one monthly right now) still say “needs improvement to be fully successful”.

    Honestly, I think I need working ADHD meds to improve at this job. Which I currently still do not have. I’m not sure if that would be enough, so I am applying for other jobs, including IT jobs, which would be an industry shift for me. However, multiple people who know me think I’d be good at it, including people who have IT jobs already.

    My biggest concern (besides not getting fired in the interim — how do I know if I’m actually on a PIP?) is that I might not be able to show my IT knowledge on my resume because I’m primarily self-taught. I took a couple of college courses and I guess I could do Kahn Academy or whatever people do these days to brush up on stuff…

    What do people recommend? What looks good on your resume for continuing education for IT stuff?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      how do I know if I’m actually on a PIP?

      Most of the time, the point of the performance improvement plan is to let the employee know she or he needs to improve performance (with specific measurable targets), and then re-evaluate after a specified period of time. It’s possible that your workplace has you on some kind of secret PIP, just looking for an excuse to fire you, but I don’t think they’d call it a PIP then.

      I might not be able to show my IT knowledge on my resume because I’m primarily self-taught.

      Yeah, it’s kind of hard to show that knowledge anyway. You can list what tech skills you have, but most people with experience will just list the IT experience (not necessarily showing knowledge). There are some things you can do, though, to have it be more than just “I list these skills.” I generally find certifications to be almost useless, but they’re not 100% useless. If you don’t have the experience, a certification can be an imperfect proxy for demonstration of knowledge at least. You could also get involved in your local Linux Users Group, volunteer at a computer recycling place near you, or just answer a lot of questions on Stack Overflow… or create some little automation projects on GitHub.

    2. EA in CA*

      A reasonable company would bring you in for a meeting to formally put you on a PIP. At my old company, you were sat down with your manager and supervisor and a document was given to you, outlining the areas needing improvements, what were the steps/milestones towards improvement, deadline and consequences for not meeting the goal (typically at that point, termination). You had to sign it along with your manager and it goes into your HR file.

      As for what looks good on your resume, it depends on what aspect of IT you are looking into. If you are looking at tech support, onsite computer support, etc, then taking the Microsoft certifications would really help you to stand out. Programming, website design, and others along those lines, you would need to demonstrate ability in those areas and some of those jobs require at minimum a diploma or degree before they would consider you for those roles, especially if you are looking to switch industries.

    3. Close Bracket*

      The way you know you are on a PIP is if you have a meeting with your manager and possibly an HR rep, and they bring a piece of paper that says Performance Improvement Plan across the top. If this has not happened, either you are not on a PIP, or you are on a PIP and your boss is a jackass. It might worth clarifying whether these meetings constitute a performance improvement plan.

  167. Batshua*

    To clarify, I’m asking both “what subjects and/or programming languages should I maybe study” as well as “what resources are taken seriously for continuing ed” — I don’t want, for example, to end up at the University of Phoenix Online.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      You mentioned IT earlier. For that, I’d probably take a look at Python. Lots of cool automation stuff happening with Python scripts. You may also want to play around with Docker containers. If you’re interested in Windows stuff, take a look at Chocolatey and Gorilla. If you’re interested in Mac stuff, look into Munki and AutoPkg. Regardless of platform, explore a bit with Chef.

  168. Catherine*

    I am on a 2.5 week vacation, returning to work on Monday. I’ve been waiting on a job offer to be finalised after a month of background checks which happened this week. So I need to resign from my old job, I’m in the UK and need to give 3 months notice, which I’ve seen ex colleagues having to work right to the end, and in fact being threatened if they tried to negotiate an earlier exit.

    My boss is not very nice, she has an unpleasant manner and has made my life pretty miserable in the time I’ve worked there. Al of the team except me has already left, the only other team members joined in the last 3 months or so.

    I guess I need to resign on Monday morning but it seems really wrong on returning from leave. But waiting another day or two won’t make it any easier or less horrible, will it? She is really moody and unpredictable and given to angry outbursts so I’m dreading having to tell her and get through 3 months of likely anger. Any advice?

    1. Nanc*

      I vote for doing it Monday morning–that way you’re on the three month count down! If she pitches an hissy fit, well you can’t control her actions/reactions, you can only control yours.

      Just be as professional and polite as possible. If they don’t exist and you have time, create SOPs for all of your duties. If you have projects that will complete after you’ve gone ask her if she wants to start transitioning to/training other folks right away. If she gets angry and yells and is unreasonable go to her boss, if possible, and see if they can help with the transition. Just keep reiterating you want the transition to be as smooth as possible and hopefully you’ll ride out the exit time with minimal fuss.

      Good luck and let us know how it goes.

    2. Rey*

      One of Alison’s topics on the right side is resigning, have you flipped through those? I think it is best to tell her right away. It’s not ideal to resign when you are just coming back from vacation, but that is the organization’s problem, not yours. I have never heard about this required 3 month bit in the UK, but if you absolutely have to be there for 3 months, I would just take up a daily (or hourly) chant: “I am kind and smart and important. She is crazy and childish.” Just keep reminding yourself of this. Nice people do not make other people miserable. This is not your fault and there is nothing you can do to change her behavior. Presumably, you were a good employee and she already made your life miserable, so she simply has no standard of how to be a nice person/boss.

      1. Kathenus*

        Plus you’re going to be stressing about it until you put in your notice, so get it over with so that it’s not hanging over your head for any longer than it has to. The anticipation of her reacting badly can be just as bad as the event itself, so why prolong it. And congrats on the new job!

      2. Catherine*

        Thanks, Rey.

        It’s funny, just going through the interviews for my new job where I talked about all of the things I’ve achieved, already made me feel so much better, even before the job offer came through. It reminded me that I am really good at my job. My boss has pretty constantly belittled and berated me, although I did get a very good rating and surprisingly large bonus at the last year end, which I guess means something. I think she is going to be completely blindsided by me resigning, we work in offices 100 miles apart so I will do it over the phone which might well be a good thing.

        I’m a back office manager in banking, it’s pretty standard for us to have 3 months notice in our contracts. Lower grades only need to give one month, and very senior grades have 6 months.

        I’m at the airport waiting on the overnight 11 hour flight home, with a time difference of 8 hours. I will probably have epic jet lag, so I’m already dreading Monday morning!

  169. Annie Nimity*

    Got this email from a new customer I signed on today, it really made my day:

    “Thank you so much Annie!! It was wonderful to speak to someone so professional and encouraging!! We look forward to being with your company!!”

    Not a huge deal but I work from home, alone, and I never get feedback about how I’m doing. So it feels good to have someone acknowledge that I’m helpful, especially a customer. I’d like to forward to my boss but I feel like that would be bragging. Thoughts?

      1. Annie Nimity*

        I think I will. It is amazing to me how long my previous toxic job has had a hold on me. I was there for almost 6 years and the last 4 were sheer hell. I love what I’m doing now! But I still have some of those old feelings and anxieties creeping up now and then. Sheesh. :/

        1. Positive Reframer*

          Also print it out and put it in the bad day folder.

          I also like to use these as a nudge to pay it forward and praise someone who I appreciate.

  170. TheWonderGinger*

    The last 3 weeks have been rough, Steve Trevor broke basically the left side of his body and I’ve had to leave Themyscria to take care of him and the kittehs. The next Monday I got put on a PIP because the mortals threw me under the boss at corporatejob, ( follow up meetings are going well and on track to be done with PIP soon but still frustrating) and I have been rejected from three positions I was a finalist for (3 round interview process each time, phone, in person, 2 hour job shadow) at notmayonnaisehealthcare.

    I did get an email last week that governmentjob I had been passed over for in June was hiring again and asking if I wanted to be considered, and luckily I won’t have to re-interview so I threw my hat in for consideration again.

    I also had a interview for a different position at notmayonnaise this morning, and I was glad to hear they incorporated the shadow interview into the main one so I don’t have to waste more PTO on coming in a separate day. I hadn’t personally said anything about the process but I guess they have been getting negative feedback about wasting peoples time. So, I’m glad that process is being reevaluated at least because I am still interested in working for notmayonnaise, I’m just out of extra PTO after spending over 20 hours on their processes this summer.

    No forward motion on the Northern front.

    1. WellRed*

      Sounds rough! Especially the part about being thrown under the boss! (Sorry, typos like this amuse me).

  171. Book Badger*

    I thought I had totally bombed a Skype interview – there were six interviewers total and they made me so nervous that I stammered and didn’t look straight at the camera – but they asked me to come in for a longer, in-person interview next week, so I must have done something right!

    This second interview is going to be an hour and a half long. The whole thing isn’t going to be direct questioning (it includes a tour of the State House, which is where I’d be working), but what kinds of questions might they ask in the second round that they didn’t cover in the first? They already asked why I wanted the job, why the area/type of work, what skills I have, could I accept that it’s temporary, that sort of thing.

    On a different topic: I interviewed for a different job almost a full month ago. I was told from the start that I would have to wait to hear back: the main partner was on vacation that week, the week after the interviewer was going on vacation herself, and then after that the two of them would make a decision. Should I assume that I don’t have the job, since they haven’t reached out?

    1. Crylo Ren*

      They’ll likely ask if you had any follow-up questions from your first interview – make sure you come prepared with some questions to ask in return.

      Are you going to be able to speak directly with the person that will be managing you? If so, take the time to ask more specific questions about what their team is like, how they would describe their management style, how they would describe the day-to-day of the position, etc.

      1. Book Badger*

        I’m reading Allison’s book on interviewing right now so I can have some good questions! As for the manager: there’s two positions open, one in each of two possible divisions, with two different managers. I won’t know what division I’m in until I’m hired, though I might guess depending on who gives me the tour (if it is indeed just one person, and not six people like the Skype call).

  172. Sandra M.*

    I work in the legal department of a financial firm. Is it normal for a place with a “business formal” dress code to not allow sheath or suit dresses as part of the code. It says we have to wear a jacket or blazer with dress pants or a dress skirt that falls to the top of the knee. I figured the kind of dresses mentioned above would fit the formal dress code but it doesn’t here. We also aren’t allowed to wear ankle/pixie pants. It’s nit a bog deal to me since I hate dresses and skirts and I only where pants but I was just curious what everyone else thinks.

    1. Annie Nimity*

      I think that’s odd because a simple sheath dress with a blazer looks extremely put-together and professional to me.

    2. Book Badger*

      I’ve heard versions of business formal that both include and exclude dresses as part of the code. I think the exclusion comes from it not being a “suit” where the pants or skirt matches the jacket exactly. I tend to err on the side of wearing a pantsuit when business formal is specified, just so that I can never be wrong (it’s also easier to get away with lower heels when wearing pants than when wearing skirts).

      Then again, law is a weird field. I’m a very recent graduate and I was told in career services classes that “some men don’t like women to wear pantsuits, so you should only wear skirt suits when interviewing” (!!!).

        1. Book Badger*

          Yes! It was so bizarre to me – I know law can be a bit behind the curve when it comes to things like societal norms, but “don’t wear pants because men won’t like it” just seemed so Mad Men to me.

          (That particular career services guy ended up leaving at the end of my first year and was replaced with someone who, I am told, was much better, but I was so soured on the whole department by that point – for multiple reasons, not just that one – that I never went back except when I was required to.)

    4. The New Wanderer*

      That is oddly specific. I can see (kind of) where sheath dresses of one fabric paired with a blazer of another fabric, while still professional looking, breaks the ‘line’ of all one fabric from head to knee/toe, but a suit dress is typically made with the same material as the matching blazer. How that’s any different from a suit skirt is beyond me.

      And again, nixing capri length seems in line with business formal, but dictating pant length to the degree that even ankle length pants are a no-go? Gee, I’d hate to be a tall person working in that office.

  173. Basia, also a Fed*

    I can’t believe no one has mentioned this yet today (hopefully I didn’t miss it), but there’s an article about a woman in Long Island who donated a kidney so her boss could get one, and then she was fired, in part for taking too much sick time. It made me think of the letter about the boss demanding that his employees offer to donate a kidney. Link to follow.

  174. The Ginger Ginger*

    Remember last Friday when I said I thought I was getting the hang of my new role? That was a nice day……how young and naive I was then :/

  175. PhillyRedhead*

    I’ve been at my current job for a year. I’m sending out resumes because the commute is longer than I expected, and the job is less flexible than I was led to believe while interviewing with them.

    When potential employers ask why I’m looking to leave, is “looking for a shorter commute” a good enough reason? Obviously, after just a year, I can’t say that “I’m looking for new challenges.”

    1. CAA*

      The problem with “looking for a shorter commute” is it can come across as “I don’t care about the work you want me to do, but you’re in a convenient spot”. It would be better to say that the job turned out not to be what you expected. Focus on the the content of the job then mention lack of flexibility and long commute as secondary issues.

    2. Kathenus*

      It could be one thing you mention, but I’d make sure to give specifics about why you want to work there as well. Something like – I’m looking to grow in xx areas and am excited about your organization’s efforts in this area. And I live relatively close, which is an added bonus for work-life balance.

  176. Entry Level Remote Options?*

    Are there any entry level jobs that are remote? Where does one even look for these types of jobs? Doesn’t matter if it is part-time or full-time, temporary or long-term.

    I’m trying to help a friend out who is recovering from surgery and not yet able to walk. Their current job is a restaurant manager who has to spend all day standing/walking, so it will be a while before they can go back to work. Any ideas on where to look to find income in the meantime?

    1. TheWonderGinger*

      With the holidays coming up, major retailers who have catalogs i.e. Duluth Trading Company, L.L. Bean, Lands End, etc will often hire for work at home customer care/order takers.

    2. Book Badger*

      If you type “remote” into the location on Indeed instead of a real place, you’ll pull up all the work-from-home jobs. Most are things like copyediting, writing, tutoring, or transcribing – things that can be done from a home computer and only involve typing skills.

  177. Can't Sit Still*

    I’m giving a brief training on how to use WebEx next week because my department seems unable to use it effectively. Any tips or tricks besides the basics that you’ve found particularly useful? We have the manual, but when do programmers ever RTFM?

    1. Trixie*

      I find WebEx pretty easy to use but watching YouTube videos might provide some direction as far as what to highlight. Especially the comments for feedback or questions.

    2. I'm A Little Teapot*

      Webex isn’t that hard to use, so either your dept really doesn’t care, or full of people who are exceptionally bad at that sort of technology.
      Join (audio and video), turn off video, mute audio, project screens, creating/changing, logging in.

  178. Mariella*

    I will be transferring to another department on Monday. However, i will be hot desking between my current department and my new one. So i could spend 2 hours in the old, 3 in the new and another 1 in old for example.

    Im definitely apprehensive about. I think its going to be difficult splitting my focus constantly, ill be training my old manager on things and then ill be trained on the new things then ill be finishing off old projects etc.

    Please can someone tell me its not going to be as tricky as i think?

    1. BookPonyBestPony*

      Any chance you could devote a singular day for each department? Like Mon, you help the old department, and then Tues you do the training? Or like half days? Otherwise things might get a bit jumbled up with the back and forth; at least it would for me.

      1. Mariella*

        Potentially, part of the problem is due to the fact the new department has 1 current employee who is part time.

        I need to be there in mornings and afternoons to cover her but i need to be trained first on what to do?

        My old department has deadlines coming up they would like me to help with as that was an integral part of my role there and they dont have the capacity to handle it by themselves atm.

        I hope i dont crash and burn!

        1. EvilQueenRegina*

          I’d probably suggest trying to work out some schedule which is going to be easier, like Monday old, Tuesday new, rather than something that involves moving twice.

          I feel you on that. I applied for and got a promotion which is within a different team in my department. However as a lot of people left my current team at the same time (long story) and the replacements aren’t in post yet and no clear date, I can’t really move or even go for training for at least a month. So right now it’s just me and Phone Dodger Who’s Giving Me Silent Treatment (don’t ask!)

  179. BookPonyBestPony*

    Just interviewed for a different position within my company. Different manager, but me and them get along, so I don’t see a problem there. I was interviewed by them and two others on the team, and they both know me and (afaik) like me very much. The interview went well, and I’m fairly certain I’m going to get the job, esp due to comments the manager made and the two people with them. Plus they’ve been trying to fill that position for a while so I kinda know exactly what the manager wants lol.

    My quandary is that I can’t decide between that position (which pays more), or my current one (the one where I’m getting a raise/promotion). I have no problems with my current boss – I really get along with them because we’re similar and they’ve been really good about helping me develop my skills- and the potentially new boss admitted that they’re bad at helping their people develop professionally, but that they’re supportive if we ever brought anything to them that we wanna do. Which would be great, but this is a new field for me so I don’t always know what opps would be good for me.

    I’ve polled friends and parents, so I figured I would try here. I feel like this is a no brainer, but mrrrgh.

    For extra context, the new job would be doing stuff I’m aware of, like how teapots are made, but have never actually done (e.g. making teapots)

    1. WellRed*

      If I read this correctly you’re up for a promotion in your current dept or a new position in another department? What does each job offer you in terms of where you want to be? What is the reason you might switch depts? Cause, honestly, it doesn’t sound like you know or have given it critical thought (maybe you have, but that’s not in the letter). Maybe literally making a pro and con list will help. Finally, be wary of a potential boss who freely admits they aren’t good at helping people develop.

      1. BookPonyBestPony*

        Up for promotion in current section; it’s all the same department. I mean neither job is what I want to do with my life, so I’m flexible.

        I’ve given this plenty of critical thought, but I didn’t want to go into excessive detail.

        The main reason for the switch would be the increase in pay, and that’s about it.

        1. WellRed*

          So, unless the pay difference is lifechanging, go for the job you will like best, I think. They both sound OK and like a step up.

  180. Stuck!*

    I work for a small company (4 people) which is a subsidiary of a larger, international one (~100 people) and the salary is way below market level for what I do. Part of the problem is that I’m doing lots of jobs at once and my duties are all over the place: Part marketing, part HR, order processing, admin, sales, support, etc. Jack of all trades, master of none. My title has manager in it because I manage the operations of the business, not because I have direct reports. I’m hunting, but seem to run into 2 issues: 1. I’m exclusively looking at large companies for benefits/salary/protection, but I lack the depth of knowledge interviewers seem to be looking for, and 2. I’ve been in the job almost 10 years and I have no references now to call on (supervisors especially). Is there a better way to market myself with these drawbacks? Any advice is appreciated!

    1. Slartibartfast*

      Do you have any supervisors who have left the company? Are there any classes you could take to shore up that lack of knowledge? You could potentially use a professor for a reference if there are.

      I’m in a similar position, 15 years in a small business and now in need of benefits. I was getting nowhere, ended up unemployed and did a semester of trade school to beef up my qualifications. Just got an offer after 5 weeks of hunting post school.

  181. Erika22*

    A little late to the game, but any tips on shifting from a smaller, more flexible company to a much larger and more rigid one?

    After almost four months of (voluntary) unemployment, I start my new job on Monday! While I’m not really excited about the job itself, I’m excited to get paid, interact with people, and start using my brain again. I’m a little concerned about the transition from a nonprofit org of ~150 with a flexible, partially remote schedule and a good amount of autonomy to a huge huge huge for-profit that’s more butt in seat and what seems like less room for taking on projects outside of your job scope. In a way, I’m looking forward to seeing what it’s like working somewhere with established processes (vs “we just manage to make it work somehow” at the smaller org) but I’m worried I’ll start chafing at the rules. I’m trying to mentally prepare for the change, but if anyone has any tips I’d love to hear them!

    1. Zona the Great*

      I have a feeling you’ll revel in the feeling of safety and comfort with knowing just where to turn for the next step. I’ve gone back and forth between the two environments and both have their benefits.

  182. lizzD*

    I got invited to an on-site interview, for a telecommute position. I live in a very rural area, with one small airport, and I’ll be flying across much of the US for this interview. This means a long flight (~8-9 hours), and an expensive ticket. The company said they would be paying for the flight and stay.
    I need to give the recruiter the dates I can go, but I’m worried about what may happen when they see the high cost of flying me there. Should I address it in my email? I figured I should say something about being flexible with the dates, as I know certain days can be a bit cheaper to flight out of.
    I’m just worried this could impact whether I get the job. It’s not an entry-level position… it’s mid-level I would say.
    Any thoughts? Anyone else have to deal with this?

    1. The New Wanderer*

      If it’s not a really small company or non-profit, they probably won’t even blink at the cost. I interviewed at a big company that was local to me, so no travel costs, and just mentioned off-hand that I was going to stay at a hotel the night before so I wouldn’t have to deal with the commute, and they offered to comp the hotel (and did). The person who got the offer was flown in from elsewhere. I’ve also been flown in from rural airports (two gates!) before on the company dime – in fact, I’ve never had an on-site interview that wasn’t paid for by the company if it involved travel on my part, and it’s usually structured to be a courtesy to the candidate. As in, they would never push a seedy hotel or a red-eye flight to save on costs. It’s a standard cost of doing business for a lot of places.

    2. BRR*

      They very likely wont care. If a couple hundred bucks (my guess is that’s the difference at most) is a dealbreaker for them, you probabaly wouldn’t want to work there anyways.

    3. AvonLady Barksdale*

      They invited you to the interview, they’re paying for it. Assume that they’re aware of the costs. Things like this happen all the time, and they’re business expenses (read: write-offs) for the interviewing company. Really, do not sweat it. In fact, if I were the hiring manager and you brought this up, I wouldn’t see you as thoughtful, I would think you weren’t all that interested in the job or that you were overly concerned with something that happens every day.

      Just remember that “expensive” to most people is often peanuts to a company, especially one that handles travel on a regular basis, even if we’re getting into the four-figure range.

  183. Wondering...*

    My last contact with the hiring manager I had two interviews with was in early August. I haven’t heard a peep since, and the job is still posted on the company’s website. Is it worth a final follow-up this far from the last update? They said they hoped to have a decision in mid-August. This is a big company, but I guess even they can ghost.

    1. Kanade*

      If you really want the job, it can’t hurt to send a polite note asking about their situation. In my experience though, this is probably a soft ‘no’.

  184. Jordan W.*

    I work at a chain hotel in a large city. Our General Manger transferred from a different state and when the Assistant General Manager job became available at our location, she hired a front desk agent from her old location. He is not qualified at all and hasn’t show any interest in learning, it’s been 8 months now and he’s managed to pass on most of his responsibilities to the front desk manager (or the GM just does them for him if he doesn’t know how). On a few occasions he’s had to fill in at the front desk by himself and he can’t even do that job (and asks me for help when it’s not even my department). I’m going to be leaving in 1 month (partly because of him, partly for personal reasons).

    Is it worth letting HR know that he doesn’t actually do anything and that the front desk workers and front desk manager are all over worked (and will be quitting soon because of him), or should I just ignore it and leave? HR is located at the corporate office on the other side of the country, so they don’t see anything happening at our location.

    1. BRR*

      I’m vengeful when it comes to bad coworkers so if something will actually be done about it I say go for it. Even if you’re leaving, consider it a gift to your coworkers.

    2. Buu*

      I think the time to raise it has passed. Sometimes the best thing to do is let them deal with the mess they’ve created. If you’re not there to help out that’s one less person who can. Bad management reflects in staff retention declining and loss of custom. Either they’ll notice and sort it or they won’t, in which case they deserve the financial loss.

      I hope your new thing is better.

    3. BooksnCats*

      You could address this in an exit interview, if your company has these.

      One point to think about is that if you will be using the GM as a future reference, I would go about this as constructively as possible. While the Assistant GM is the problem, she is one as well. If HR decides to work on this, they would have to address both. I’m not defending either of them, but want to see you get out of this situation without any repercussions. Another commenter said they will eventually notice the turnover. Being a part of that may be your best move.

  185. Jenny*

    I applied for a job at my work’s corporate office (a job I am qualified for with experience and a degree). I had a phone interview with a temp HR followed by 2 Skype interviews with different people in the department, all were over 3 months ago. I followed up but never heard anything. The job is still posted on internal and external job listings so I figured it was just taking a while. On a company wide staff call this week I learned they hired an external candidate. I work via email/phone with the 2 people I had skype interviews with so it’s not like they would just forget I was an internal applicant. I feel so disrespected that no one told me I didn’t get the job and that I had to find out during the staff call. Shouldn’t HR have at least emailed me to let me know I didn’t get it?

    1. Nines*

      That sounds really crappy. I would struggle with finding out I hadn’t gotten a job that way. Especially if you have communication with the peeps that interviewed you!
      Although… I wonder if at least on their end they assumed the “we went with someone else” message would come from HR.
      Still would feel really icky

    2. Triplestep*

      It is indeed disrespectful; I am sorry this happened to you. I had a similar thing happen in a previous job when I found out about a re-org on a team call that impacted mostly one other person and me. The other person was given a head’s up 30 minutes before the call, while I was completely blindsided. It only got worse from there.

      Being ghosted by people considering you for a job is very common (I’m going through that right now, too!) but it has to feel worse when it comes from within your own company.

  186. Kanade*

    I just started a new position thanks to the job-hunting help I found here and the super helpful comments adding extra insight, so I wanna thank all of yall for that!!

    My question is in regards to my very first mistake at this new job (not even a week in! So frustrated at myself). My new office oversees a large international exchange program, and university students are a main demographic of ours, so I’m already used to parents calling with questions. Today we had a father call asking for his daughter’s contact info in her destination country – however, we don’t keep logs of that after the students have traveled to the in-country office that will handle their day-to-day things. Apparently, she didn’t leave her parents with a way to contact her and is currently only speaking to her brother through email. Being the naive, trusting individual I can be, I gave the best contact email we had on file to him.

    But looking back, I think I really fucked up by doing this and my boss basically confirmed that when I spoke to her – “Just pray nothing comes of it and don’t ever do it again”. I know that there’s logically no way I could ever reach out to the girl and apologize, but I’m dragging myself over the coals for potentially exposing her to an abusive home situation or some crazy person….Not to mention the damage it’d do to our reputation if it blows up that we just gave out her email to the first rando claiming to be her dad… Can you guys weigh in on this? Am I overthinking/reacting??

    1. Nacho*

      Unfortunately, I don’t think you’re overreacting. Either that was her dad, and he was the kind of dad whose son wouldn’t give him his daughter’s email address, or it was a stranger probably stalking that girl. Either way you definitely shouldn’t have told him anything.

      There’s nothing you can do now, just remember the next time anybody asks you for anything that you can’t give out any personal information like that.

    2. Daisy*

      Agreed with the other commenter that you’re unfortunately not overreacting, but I think it’s an understandable mistake: since this kind of call from parents sounds like a regular part of your job, training or guidance should have been provided on what information you can and can’t release (and what to do in this specific situation, which must have come up before for other employees)

    3. Sunset Skies*

      No, you’re not overreacting. Thst was a pretty serious mistake to make, and the potential consequences are bad. I really hope someone from your org is reaching out to the student (or their in-country office) to let her know what has happened so that she can protect herself if necessary.

      Please take this as a lesson and never ever give out contact info without consent.

    4. Lissa*

      I don’t think you need 10 more comments telling you how bad you are when I’m sure by now you get it. Honestly I really think this should be part of the training. We are taught to be helpful to people from a really young age, and often without specific experience/training it doesn’t occur in the moment NOT to do it.

      Especially on a phone call, it’s so easy to just answer questions asked by someone who sounds reasonable, and if we don’t ever have that click moment of “don’t give this out” there’s no barrier to doing it. It’s why I think all training should absolutely include a line to use on people like this, so you have something to fall back on when flustered.

    5. AeroEngineer*

      People screw up in this business, you are neither the first nor the last person to mess up, and I personally saw a lot of people make various mistakes while I worked in the office, and a couple were definitely of the “pray it never comes up and never do it again”. While your mistake is definitely a problem, it could have been significantly more severe.

      I worked in an International Exchange Office at a major university for a couple of years, and I am really surprised this wasn’t part of your training, or even part of the interview. Pretty much any information about any student should only be given to that student and no one else, not even other students going on the same program without clearing it with the student first. It might be good to clear with your boss what information you can give to parents, if any, as thinking back, I believe I was also not allowed to give any sort of info to parents of students without clearing it with the student.

  187. Coyote*

    My boss went on a rant about Transgendered people today at work. I fall under the LGBT+ spectrum and sat completely shocked until (thankfully) his cell phone rang and he stepped away.

    There’s nothing I can do about it because the whole company is like this. I just wanted to get it off my chest.

  188. Lynne879*

    I’ve applied to several jobs & no matter how I tailor my resume and cover letter, nothing seems to be working. I’m looking for more administrative/office jobs so I can get out of retail, but nothing seems to be sticking. I feel like I’ve been given all the advice I can possibly get for fixing my resume & cover letter & I don’t know what else to do :( The store I work at is closing in a month & I was told companies don’t really hire in November/December. I’d rather not work a seasonal job, but that may have to be the case if I don’t find anything in a month :(

    1. Buu*

      Have you tried a temping agency? If you’re looking at seasonal work anyway hopefully this will get you more experience or lead to something. In the mean time keep looking yourself, since as a temp you’d be able to just finish out a temp gig and move to a new job if stuff came up.

      Good luck.

    2. Triple Anon*

      If you have the means to network in person, definitely do that. When you talk to people, let them know you’re job hunting and what you’re looking for. You don’t have to go to industry-specific events. Just get out and socialize as much as you can. People know people and people like to help each other out. And if you can, make business cards and keep some with you at all times. Make conversation with all the people you cross paths with. Ask how their day’s going and when they ask you the same, say something like, “My employer is closing and I’m frantically job hunting, but otherwise things are great! Just hoping I find something soon.” People will surprise you. You never know who will say, “My sister is a successful XYZ and she knows a lot of people. Give me your card.”

      That type of job hunting does eventually lead to submitting a resume and cover letter, but some people find that their odds are better if they’ve made an in-person connection first.

  189. PetrabyDay*

    I need help. I love the company I work at , It is a subsidiary of a successful international company but still relatively new in my locale. I love the brand, I love the career prospects but really hating a few things in the mean time. So we are a small operation of about 8 people (6 men & 2 women) and I rarely get along with them. ( we don’t argue but the conversations are just not my cup of tea. The 1 woman who is here is still new ( she was in for 2 months and went on maternity for 3 months), so Ive been the only woman here a long time. Why this is important is that the surbodinate are treating me in a sexist way ( either zealously complimenting me or just ignoring me) and also not keeping the women’s toilet clean while the men’s is quite stellar.
    Also I hate working in an open office- I am surrounded by noise all the time, either youtube, loud typing and cursing, political and football commentaries, personal calls, loud ringtones and i wish I had the option to be in a cubicle with minimal interaction.
    My question is; How can I address my frustration with the job currently to my boss. I fear that bringing it up will cost me the job but if I continue like this any longer, i am afraid I will look for other jobs and quit even before I gain traction at this place and my superiors will not like it much ( as they made it clear that they wanted more permanency with the employees).
    I am in sales and i think I can do much of what I do from home and i feel this will be a good alternative however, I feel that my manager may not like it much….
    Sigh..What do you think?

    1. Not So NewReader*

      It could be rose colored glasses? I understand you love the brand but “sometimes love ain’t enough”. Especially when it becomes a major chunk of your day and your life. I have businesses/products that I love but I would never in a million years work for the company.

      I think you will probably win if you ask for the women’s bathroom to be cleaned with the same frequency as the mens’s room. And you should be able to gain ground with the sexist treatment.

      Look around and see if you notice a quieter spot/corner. Perhaps you can move to that spot. In other words, have a realistic solution if you decide to push ahead with the noise complaint.

      Being afraid to tick people off because of leaving is the worst reason in the world to stay. You have just made yourself into a 40 hour a week hostage, as you are hostage to someone’s emotions. Many places will tell you they want you to stay for a while during the interview and then they fall down on providing reasons you should stay. If you do not see opportunities to move up in the company within a reasonable time, then start looking to move out. If it were me I would very quietly do both.

  190. Jo*

    I’m wondering what people’s thoughts are on whether immaturity is the same thing as unprofessionalism?

    The context to this is that the other day, my manager was surprised to hear that in a casual conversation that a colleague and I were only two days apart in age (we’re both 26). Her comment was that one of us did come across as more mature than the other – and it wasn’t me. I’m a very bubbly, excitable and enthusiastic person at work and I love my job to bits. I also get really good feedback and am very confident that my manager is happy with my work. But her comment is still niggling at me a bit, even though I have complete trust that if my immaturity were impacting on my work, she would tell me. In the absence of any direct feedback on this, should I be working on coming across as more mature, or am I overthinking?

    1. Triple Anon*

      Both are in the eye of the beholder, immaturity moreso than unprofessionalism, but they both depend heavily on context, culture, and people’s own ideas. So if you’re generally good at your job and people take you seriously, I wouldn’t worry about it too much. And, honestly, I think a lot of people are really biased. If you look young, you’ll be read as impulsive when you’re out-going and shy when you’re reserved. In other words, a lot of things can be perceived different ways. People often don’t know they’re being biased.

      If it’s bothering you, especially if it seems unfair, I would bring it up. Just ask if she was joking and ask for feedback. Tell her you want to come across professionally and that if there is anything that’s undermining that, you’d like to work on it. There’s a good chance she meant it as a joke, but it could be a helpful conversation to have all around – there could be things you weren’t aware of and she might be being unfair in ways that she hadn’t realized.

      1. Jo*

        Thanks for your reply Triple Anon! I actually had a meeting with her today about my development goals for the next six/twelve months and though I didn’t raise this specifically, I did get some helpful personal feedback on not losing my excitement and enthusiasm, but also working on cultivating my gravitas for when it’s called for. Turns out she was much the same as me when she was younger (and I think still is to some extent!). So I’m feeling less niggly about it now, which is good. :)

  191. Side Hustles*

    Kind of a follow up to the side hustle thread. I started using mTurk, seeing if it could be a source of additional income. Wow, the pay is LOW when you first start. Considering the amount of time it takes to complete each task, you would be making about $1 per hour. That seems wrong and it makes me feel iffy about supporting the service. They should pay something that would add up to minimum wage. I know that’s the way those gigs are these days, but the big picture is Not Great for workers. And a lot of the tasks are data mining – collecting data about people and companies. I was thinking, “Wow. What is this nice person’s info going to be used for? Telemarketing? Email scams?” It all made me really skeptical. Other common tasks seem more research oriented.

    I’m going to keep trying it and see how it goes. That was just my initial impression. If anyone else uses it, I’d be interested to hear about your experiences.

    1. nonegiven*

      I’ve heard that you have to do a certain amount of the work before you have access to the higher paying jobs, probably still not minimum wage.

  192. Triple Anon*

    I know I’ve been posting a lot about my financial situation lately, but, looking at the big picture, I feel pretty good about my employment situation.

    I have a master’s degree in a field that’s a good fit in some ways but not in others. I’ve left some decent corporate jobs in my field for good reasons – dysfunction and disrespect. It was a large scale pattern and seemed to be beyond my control. I had tried to address it. Since then, I’ve been running a small business, earning income through creative projects, tutoring, and driving for a delivery service. The issue is that most of my income comes from the latter, but I don’t earn enough to cover car maintenance. Then my car breaks down and I’m out of work and begging mechanics for payment arrangements. And I don’t have enough money to put into my business, and I’m reluctant to take out a loan (plus all of this has been hard on my credit score so I doubt I’d qualify for a good one). I work from about 9am to 10pm 7 days a week. I never take a day off. My creative projects have a small yet global following. I’m known in my current area and the last one I lived in.

    I’m getting better at all of my jobs, and at handling Issues That Are Bothering Me. I’m getting better at being really positive and also not putting up with any BS. The two go together. If you’re really nice and professional and positive, you have more leeway to immediately say no to negative stuff because it’s more obvious that it’s Them Not You.

    I’ve become more public about having physical differences and everything else that’s “weird” about me. That way, people are reacting to a known thing, and it helps with understanding and makes it all more relatable. And if they have issues, it’s more obvious that they’re just being biased. It has probably set me back in some ways, but I think it’s worth while in the long run. It’s a positive thing.

    I’m still applying for jobs and getting rejection letters. Every letter is depressing, but I know that’s just part of life. I would rather be in this situation than tolerating the inexcusable things I walked away from.

    So I’m still behind on bills, including rent, but if I can get through this, I’m in a good position to build a better future for myself and blaze a trail for others. I just need a little income boost, but I work on it every day and eventually something will work out, I believe.

    Thank you all for your support during the rough patches!

  193. Mimmy*

    So nervous! I was invited to do a presentation on the ADA both by my job and my volunteer council!! It doesn’t have to be formal, but I’m trying to remember the last time I gave any sort of talk….maybe 2010?? (when I spoke in an MSW class).

    But I am so excited about finally getting to channel my interests in some way. Hello comfort zone, nice knowing ya! lol.

  194. Arrested and about to start a new job, am I f**cked?*

    Hi all,
    Earlier this year I got a dream job at a non-profit research organization, to start this week. I live on the opposite coast so last week I drove my stuff cross-country for the new job to start. Then, just about the worst thing that could possibly happen, happened:

    As I drove through one of the mid-west states, I was pulled over (for being too close behind a truck). The police that pulled me over had a K9 unit and long story short they found a small amount of marijuana, a pipe, and a little bit of old (opiod) pain medication I got when I was injured out the country. I was arrested for possession and spent the night in jail. I’m out on bond but the case is moving forward with the possession, and the pain medication in particular is a serious crime. Really freaky.

    I drove the rest of the way to my job, and I start Monday. I’m trying to figure out how navigate being honest with my employers and also not getting fired. They or forms they use may or may not ask about arrests or pending charges (which is legal to ask about in this state) or past convictions (which isn’t).

    They really like me, and were willing to wait a couple months so that I could come after finishing another project, but they’re really well regarded and might just not want to be associated with someone with a criminal record.

    Do I just keep quiet without lying and only tell them when it’s impossible for it to not impact my work (e.g. if I have to leave to go for a trial and/or jail time)?

    Thanks!

    1. Triple Anon*

      Consider what parts of this are part of the public record and whether or not that will come up, given the nature of the job. I am not a lawyer, but I think arrest records are public in some states but not others, and I think it can vary by the agency that made the arrest (ie town police vs DEA). I would look into that.

      You’re innocent until proven guilty. So I would only say as much as a person could find out by searching publicly available records. And if you have a lawyer, you should consult with them before saying anything to anyone. Usually, clients are advised not to talk about a case until the trial is over. So they’ll probably have some recommendations for what to say to your employer and how.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        You should try to get a lawyer in the state where the arrest happened. The lawyer will be more acquainted with the nuances of state laws.

        If you can show low/no income you may qualify for a public defender. If you think you can qualify, call the court involved and ask how to get a PD. They will give you a number to call for the public defender OR you can google and find the PD’s office for that area.

        Court cases are open to the public most of the time. But because there is so much going on in the world and in life most people do not randomly show up for court to see if anyone they know is on the calendar for the day. I agree with letting your lawyer guide you about your job. Since these charges are misdemeanors or perhaps felony charges any judge worth their weight will keep asking you to get an attorney, they will hesitate to allow you to continue on your own. Shorten your process by starting that attorney search now.

        In NYS, you can kind of get a read on what is happening. If you have a felony in NY and it does not get bumped up to county level that means the prosecutor sees a path to reducing the charge. This is to keep county court from being buried in cases.

        Now, I am not a professional legal person. But I have dealt with lawyers and different types of legal problems. It has been my experience that the defendant is the one who best prepares the case, not the attorney. This means thinking through what happened and explaining what happened and why. Then you give your situation to the attorney and they attach relevant laws and such. Was the script in its bottle or was it loose under the seat? Can you contact that doc and get him to vouch that you were on that script legitimately? Did they drug test you? Were you read your rights? Did you have an arraignment? Were you arraigned with an attorney present? Was there bail? Don’t answer here. These are some of the things you should write down.

        When you get that attorney, you want to deal with the logistics as soon as possible. It might be possible to get one day in court and get it resolved, which would save you multiple trips across the country. Your lawyer might be willing to show up with out you, but that is doubtful and may not be the best plan. You will need to send your attorney all relevant paper work, you can probably fax or email it to them.

        Keep track of court dates. Do not allow a court date to go by without contacting your attorney and possibly contacting the court. Failure to show is an arrest warrant.

        It might take several months to settle things but it could be, (notice “could be”) possible that this will not turn out as bad as you might think. Stay on top of it every step of the way. That matters. People in the legal profession notice when a person keeps following up, be that person. And as with dealing with any one, being nice will get you farther than being snippy. It’s easy to be snippy because this is nerve wracking. Remember to be nice.

        1. Triple Anon*

          In terms of how public everything is, I was thinking of it coming up when someone googled OP’s name. Sometimes, arrest records are printed in the local paper. Or the employer might be planning to run a background check.

          1. Not So NewReader*

            OP could test that out and kind of get an idea what the employer would see. Also, if OP’s name is Jane Smith, probably OP has little to worry about on a Goggle search. This just leaves the background check, it depends on if they do a criminal or financial background check. Perhaps their background checks are just to call former employers. All this to say, it’s a concern, but not a five alarm fire as long as OP keeps moving along and working on the situation. If OP stops working on it then it will be a seven alarm fire. I think the lawyer will be able to help with what to say to the employer.

  195. CC*

    I just joined a new company which is very much a “CC All” type of culture. I feel like I spend so much of my day sorting through emails that I’m copied on. It’s very common to even reply all just to say thank you to one person.

    I’m not used to this. It takes me a long time to go through my emails everyday. Yet there is an expectation to reply quickly when someone emails me or asks me a question in the middle of an email in a long thread.

    Any suggestions on how to manage this?

    1. Rick Tq*

      Create a mail rule that moves anything your are CC’d to separate folder. My is labeled “Info only”. I’d don’t ignore the folder but it gets reviews AFTER my inbox is clean. I send a copy of anything I can’t address in the moment to “In Process” so the task doesn’t get lost in the noise..

    2. De Minimis*

      My last job was like this, and it was very tough to manage. They also had the expectation that I always “reply all” when responding, even if most of the people in the e-mail chain were just included as FYI. Your comment just made me realize one of the big reasons it was tough for me to be productive there, that too much time was spent sorting through e-mail. Which is why normal e-mail etiquette is to keep “reply all” to a minimum.

      Now that I’m at a different job, I’m trying to break the bad habits that were established policy at OldJob. I used to get dings on my evaluations for not replying all often enough.

  196. Disposable Name*

    Hello! Somewhat positive update for everyone. A few weeks ago I shared about the situation in my office with my boss and my new coworker Becky that is somewhere between overt favoritism and a weird crush that my boss has on her. The good news is that a new work space opened up (that’s away from both of their offices) and I’m moving in to it tomorrow! I’ll be able to distance myself from the weirdness of their relationship for the duration of my time working there (which hopefully won’t be that much longer since I’m looking for other jobs)!

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