open thread – November 2-3, 2018

by Alison Green on November 2, 2018

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue.

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    1. Amber Rose*

      I was terrified for a minute. If it’s Friday, I completely missed my plans for Thursday night and all my meetings. D:

        1. curly sue*

          This thread terrified me for a moment before I checked both the date stamps on these messages and my own computer’s calendar.

          I need more coffee.

          1. Psyche*

            Yep. That confused me too. I was wondering why so many people think it is Thursday and then saw your comment and checked the dates on those. I feel better now.

  2. Same here*

    My coworker is apparently complaining constantly about how I don’t like him. I will admit that he does annoy me, but I don’t think I have ever let it show, or at least I didn’t mean to. Should I talk to him or try to do anything about this?

    1. Same here*

      Sigh. I was excited I might get some responses since I made it in early and just realized it’s the wrong day so this whole post will likely be deleted. My luck.

        1. Lumen*

          So are they coming to you to gossip about it? Maybe ask them why they’re telling you what Fergus is saying. I’m honestly curious. Do *they* think it’s a serious problem that you two need to address?

        2. Close Bracket*

          Many responses are making this Not That Big of a Deal, but a coworker who complains about you to others can turn into a big deal. It can, rightly or wrongly, turn into “Same here is difficult to work with.” I wouldn’t confront him directly, but I would ask your coworkers for more info. Do use some of the disarming language that others have suggested, like, “Is that right? How odd, I don’t have any problems with him. Does he say anything specific, that maybe I could change?” Suggesting that you will change will build good will, and there might actually be things that you should change. If you can build a better picture of what his problem is, you might be able to strengthen the relationship. It would be nice if people could be adults and tell Fergus, “well, you won’t be friends with everyone you work with, so unless Same here is actually impacting your work, shut it.” But sometimes it turns into, “Same here, Fergus thinks you don’t like him. Going forward, we need you to commit to repairing that relationship. Can you do that?”

          Are you a woman? Regardless of gender, is it possible that Fergus’s problem is that you don’t smile enough or some garbage like that? Bc even that can cause problems with perception with your coworkers: “Man, I can see why Fergus says that stuff about Same here.”

          Lastly, does Fergus cause a problem with *your* work? Bc repairing relationships with coworkers, when there genuinely is a misperception about you, is very worthy and stuff, but if his perceived dislike from you means he doesn’t work well with you, then you might have to bring in your manager. Of course, that is a judgement call, bc not all managers will deal with him, or deal with him effectively (going back to things becoming a “Same here is hard to work with” thing.)

          1. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

            I agree. I don’t think I’d ignore it.

            OP, you might be doing something more obvious than you think that shows that Fergus annoys you. I know I’ve done it myself. I’d start with whoever told you this and ask what their perception is. Maybe ask if they have noticed you doing anything that would give him this idea. To a certain extent it’s probably just Fergus being immature and/or entitled but depending on the dynamics in your office, and how much influence Fergus has, it will probably behoove you to be more performative in showing that you don’t dislike him.

    3. Lady Ariel Ponyweather*

      – Ask for specifics

      – Have someone with you

      If he’s constantly complaining but doesn’t have specifics, then the problem is him not you. Have someone with you when you do this, or at least talk to your boss or another co-worker – someone to back you up and know what you’re doing.

      By specifics, I mean things like, “You sigh at me every time I talk” not “I just get the impression you don’t like me”.

      1. Seeking Second Childhood*

        Specifics are key. I knew someone upset because a co-worker looking to one side — and co-worker had a migraine so couldn’t see from the center of her field of vision. Because they both said something it got smoothed over quickly.
        Good luck!

    4. Not So NewReader*

      Generally not a good rabbit hole to scramble down into. You probably won’t win that much.

      Tell the people who are saying this that he is welcome to come talk to you at any point. Tell them you are fine with working with him, you have no issues with him. If the situation continues gently let folks know that you really meant it when you said they should encourage him to talk things over with you.

      Then let it go.
      People do not have to like each other they just have to work together with basic respect in place. Not everyone is for everyone and that is okay.

      1. neverjaunty*

        This. Why are these people telling you what he’s saying, anyway? This is an excellent way to shut them down as well as him.

      2. Parenthetically*

        Yeah this. Your other coworkers are being childish here, too. “Jane, I honestly have no problems working with Fergus. He’s welcome to come talk to me if he wants to. And if you’d like to do something, rather than just coming to tell me he’s at it again, encourage him to speak to me about his concerns. I don’t want to field secondhand complaints from someone who isn’t willing to address them directly with me. Now I’ve got to get back to those TPS reports.”

        Rinse and repeat.

      3. Anon Accountant*

        I love this and wish we could post it at workplaces. People don’t have to like each other they just have to work together wish basic respect. 100% agree

    5. Holly*

      How constant is it? If it was just a few one off statements to people, I’d just try and ask a peer you trust if you come off a certain way towards him, and if so, try to change that, without involving him directly. However, if it’s literally constant and becoming a topic of discussion, I’d consider talking with him about it.

    6. Le’Veon Bell is seizing the means of production*

      Ha, next time he complains just say “well, the constant complaining about how I don’t like you certainly doesn’t help.”

      I actually am only half joking there…

      But next time he brings it up, you could just say “Yeah, no, you’re right, I don’t want to be friends with you, I don’t think we really have compatible personalities. Luckily, I don’t have to like you to work well with you. Can you please focus on working well with me from here on out?”

      Just take the personal out of it. It’s a bit cold, but it’s probably better than 1) continuing to hear him complain about it, or 2) going out of your way to pretend you like him, which is sending the wrong signal.

      1. Quackeen*

        But he isn’t complaining directly to Same here. Same here is hearing about it from other parties.

    7. ThankYouRoman*

      Complaining constantly? About you not liking him? Is your coworker also in the 8th grade? Heck, I don’t like him either, he can complain about that instead ;)

      But really, ignore it. If you’re not being icy and rude to him, he needs to grow up. Not your circus unless your boss seems to take issue with it or you. Possibly loop the boss in if they don’t know so they can weigh in. Don’t talk to this guy and play his game without support.

      1. Muriel Heslop*

        This is very eighth grade. As a middle school teacher I see this a lot, and it’s generally a reflection of personal turmoil brought on by something else (problems at home, onset of puberty). OP, please just let people know that you are welcome to speaking with him at any time. I’d encourage you to be generous if you can be, since it sounds like your coworker is struggling. Good luck!

    8. LKW*

      Well it showed enough that he recognizes it -or you said something to someone and it got back to him. You may want to ask someone you trust if your behavior is less than respectful or professional.
      Anytime someone comes with a complaint to you – and it’s not him – just turn it back to him “Hmmm, he’s never said anything to me. Goodness if he’s upset he should come talk to me. ”
      You don’t have to be fake but whatever you’re doing – it’s not working.

    9. Laurelma01*

      Go to him and let him know you are aware of what’s being said about you. I had a co-worker years ago that was studying to be a minister. You said something about someone, he would run and tell them what was said and who said it. I got frustrated and told him he’s repeating everything and not maintaining confidences would make him a lousy minister. He was the worse gossip.

      20 some years later he’s working a high paying job, but isn’t a minister. Am wondering if he thought about what I had said.

    10. AMA Long-time Lurker*

      Had the exact situation at work, Same here – IMO, the best approach is to cheerfully disagree when people bring this to you, state that you do enjoy working with him, and most importantly, be cheerful to this person himself. That’s all you can do! If you are professional and cordial with him and this coworker is still claiming that you don’t “like him,” then people will figure out that he’s being too sensitive or gossipy. I was in this exact same situation and eventually figured out that my coworker’s interpretation of me “not liking him” was because I had not made plans to hang out with him outside of work and because he felt like I didn’t tell him enough about my personal life – i.e., he really wanted to be friends, and I just wanted to be coworkers. You might be in the same situation, and your only job is to be a good coworker!

    11. Washi*

      Do you have a sense if he is generally well-liked? If he’s generally considered to be kind of annoying around the office, him complaining like this probably won’t reflect badly on you (as long as he has nothing specific to complain about, it sounds like you aren’t being deliberately mean or anything.)

      But if he is well liked and you’re worried about your reputation, it’s probably worth being really careful about how you behave around him and maybe showing a little extra warmth and friendliness. For your own benefit more than his!

    12. Jaguar*

      You should start by clarifying to yourself what you hope to accomplish. Do you want him to stop and that’s it? Do you want to fix the working relationship? Do you want to get past your own annoyances with him? Those all have different solutions (the first one might not have any good solutions).

    13. LilySparrow*

      Well, the complaining co-worker isn’t your problem at the moment. The issue here is that you have gossipy co-workers who are trying to stir up drama. For all you know, he may not be complaining at all, or far less than is being portrayed. I have never encountered a gossip who was careful about truthfulness or accuracy. And I’ve encountered many who would make up stories out of whole cloth just to get a drama started so they could watch.

      I’d advise a shrug, with a non-committal comment like, “Huh. Really? That’s wierd because I’ve got no issue with him.” Make your response as boring and bland as possible, because it’s very likely the gossips will carry it back to Mr Annoying, with plenty of embroidery on top.

      Then walk away, refuse to discuss it further, and most importantly — never, ever tell the gossip anything personal about yourself or anyone else.

    14. restingbutchface*

      Depends on how much you trust the people telling you this. I was once pulled in by my boss who said she had heard I had been complaining about her “loudly, all day”. I was shocked until I realised someone had overheard me chatting to my SO on the phone about a friend’s pet who had a similar name to my boss. Fairly embarrassing to have to explain I was talking about Georgie, my friend’s badly behaved poodle and not, you know, the woman who pays my wages. She did believe me, thank God.

      Worst case scenario, this coworker confided in someone (we all vent) and they’ve run off to stir the pot.

      Let us know what you decide? But don’t assume the worst, this is second hand at best.

    15. Girl friday*

      It’s probably two things. First, he probably doesn’t like you and this is the criticism that has merit, so it rankles. It’s probably not his only criticism. Second, people leak what they feel about people without realizing it, but at least that’s something you can work on. Try to find something admirable and focus on that. I second the idea of not being alone with them. Men sometimes use the fact that they rarely complain, or at least complain less than women verbally, to give their complaints merit that the complaints don’t have. I wouldn’t worry too much about it. And tell the gossiper to go away, that person is up to no good. in the future, whenever someone annoys you, take it as a red flag and handle it before anyone notices! Use this to your benefit. We tend to waffle around about our feelings, but people pick up on these things very quickly. :-)

    16. HLK1219HLK*

      I worked in an office once with the world’s most insecure junior teapot worker (nickname if Little Evil or LE). She would pick different targets and the conversations went like this:
      LE: Hi Target A, I just wanted to talk because I heard you were upset or angry with me.
      Target A: What? No! Why would I be upset with you?
      LE: I don’t know, I just know a couple of people mentioned that they didn’t think you liked me or that I had done something to offend you.
      Target A: Wow, no, I’m not upset. You haven’t done anything wrong or anything to offend me. Maybe they misunderstood something, but I don’t see how because I really haven’t said anything about you or your work so this is just weird.
      LE: Oh good. I just thought I would apologize if I had upset you & made you not like me.
      Target A: Of course I like you, so that makes this all the more bizarre. You’re doing fine, etc.

      LE wanders off having gotten her daily affirmation that someone liked her. In the days/weeks to come, she would latch onto Target A like a leech, following them around, trying to go to lunch with them, dressing like them (not kidding). Going into an office and shutting the door didn’t work because she would either stand outside knocking softly until the Target opened the door, or would hang outside the door until they emerged and then pounce with her lunch invitation. This went on until Target A got tired of having a stalker and told LE to back off and find a new target. This happened to me a few times until I caught on to her pattern. After that I made it clear that if I was ever upset at her or with something she had done then I would tell her directly, but until then, she needed to stop asking.

      The best day ever though was when she tried this on a new guy who was kind of a curmudgeon. I was in the next cube over so I heard everything. She launched into her “I heard people say you’re mad with me” and he turned the anger dial up to max. He demanded to know who was saying he was mad at her. She backpedaled and started trying to cover, but he didn’t let her. “My reputation is on the line and if you heard someone lying about me, I am going to file a complaint with HR, so you need to tell me NOW.” She was sputtering and trying to get away, but he wouldn’t have it. “The call can wait! We’re going to the Director of HR RIGHT now and we are going to fill out a report listing every single thing said by every person you talked to!” He stood up like he was going to march on the tower or something. She gave up trying to cover and took off running.

      I had to go over to high five him for that. See, I had warned him about LE when he first got hired and placed in the cube next to mine. He wasn’t going to go to HR anymore than she was talking to her imaginary others. But props to him because she never tried that crap with him or anyone he sat near for the rest of the time I worked there (I heard years later she never quit playing her “are you mad” game so unfortunately he didn’t scare her 100% straight).

      For the record, we did report her stalking to HR. However, she a) had a medical condition that was readily apparent; and b) had a habit of filing protected class discrimination complaints, so they let her carry on.

  7. Not Maeby But Surely*

    I am having such anxiety over asking my former supervisor for a reference, as I consider moving on from my current job. I think it’s because they are now the President of a different company. I feel like it’s such a bother; please tell me I’m overthinking it. This person is the only supervisor I can ask, because all my other supervisors are still at my current POE. Related question: when you have such few options for superiors to be a reference for you, is it acceptable to ask co-workers whom you have mentored, trained, or even supervised (in the past, I’m not supervising any of them currently) to be your reference? I feel like a hiring manager might not put a lot of weight on their references, but my options are so so limited right now.

    2. OhGee*

      I still use a department chair from graduate school (he was technically my supervisor) as a reference, even though he’s now the dean of the college under which the department falls. He’s even busier than he was before, but I just make sure to give him a quick heads up via email if someone is likely to get in touch so he knows to flag it for his assistant. Just ask, politely and in advance by at least a few days!

    3. Dragoning*

      I would ask your previous supervisor for a reference, perhaps in addition to the coworkers, since you often need more than one. Do you have coworkers who trained YOU or supervised you in some way?

      1. Not Maeby But Surely*

        Unfortunately, due to my longevity here (17 years), the aforementioned boss is the only supervisor/trainer I can ask – all the others are still at this current place of employment and would not be able to maintain confidentiality due to needing to put the company first. If I was sure I was leaving the industry, I could ask the ones still here, but at this point I might want to stay in this field. If they think I might go to work for the competition, I would be let go immediately, which is my company’s standard practice. This conundrum is one of the reasons I feel stuck at my current job. :(

    4. Rincat*

      It’s not a bother for them, even as a company president! I’m sure they have provided references for other people. They’re not off limits simply because of their title.

      I would try to find coworkers who mentored or trained you – not the other way around. Because then that will speak to more of the things a manager is interested in. I have a couple of former coworkers like that, and used them as references when I was looking for my current job. At this point I have enough former supervisors, however if I was looking again, I would still use the more recent coworker who mentored me vs the former supervisor from over 10 years ago, especially because my coworker was mentoring me on tasks more relevant to my career now.

      1. Not Maeby But Surely*

        RE: your 2nd paragraph – due to the details I posted in a reply above, I have very limited options for people in a mentoring/training/supervisory role over me. Anyone that doesn’t fall into the categories above is either long-since retired (as in, over 10 years ago) or deceased. Where else might someone in a situation like this find a good reference? I do have a long-term volunteering gig, but all that person would be able to speak to is my general ability to learn things & follow instructions, and my willingness to help out extra as needed. Pretty soft skills for someone to speak to. The volunteer gig is unrelated to my career. Also, I’ve just remembered one other person I can probably ask. Would having only 2 references be a red flag? If I explained how my longevity was a factor, would that help turn the flag yellow or green? Seems this might be what is meant when they say you can shoot yourself in the foot staying one place for too long.

        1. Rincat*

          I would just go with coworkers then. The volunteer person wouldn’t hurt, but I’d try to do 3 people from your workplace. Most employers understand if you don’t have a lot of options for truly supervisory people. I think what is more important is people who can speak to your more recent skills and experience. Certainly someone you mentored or trained is not a bad reference – they can still speak to how you work with others, how well you take feedback, etc.

    6. Le’Veon Bell is seizing the means of production*

      If they’re a President, they’re probably getting paid a pretty good wage, so I assure you you shouldn’t feel bad about taking a couple minutes to help you out. :) It’s their job to protect their time, not yours.

      And while you should ideally have more than one supervisor as a reference I think most employers would welcome a reference from someone you supervised (if you don’t supervise them currently), especially if you’re applying to a management position. How you are as a manager is an important part of your performance in a management job! I wouldn’t submit them at the expense of submitting a supervisor reference, but as a supplement, they’re great.

      (And, ultimately, you gotta do what you gotta do to make the numbers work!)

      1. Not Maeby But Surely*

        Thanks – your reasoning is basically what mine was. Part of the reason I want to move on is to move up into a supervisory role again, which is not available at my co. anytime in the next 5 years or more. I was thinking it would be beneficial to have people say, ‘yes, this person was good at training/explaining/etc., and here’s why I say so.’

    7. Not So NewReader*

      The people who say yes are surprising.
      Don’t dwell on this any more. Just shoot him an email and ask.
      The higher up the ladder people get the more they realize that it is a privilege and a social obligation to further other people’s careers.
      If you want, build an easy out into the request such as “I realize you maybe too busy right now…” or something he can grab on to and ease out of the request if he chooses.

    8. OtterB*

      I once served as a reference for someone who used to supervise me. Neither of us were still at the original organization. It was a small organization where the only one above my old supervisor was the owner, and he had been there long enough that he didn’t have anything relevant from previous jobs. It’s probably not ideal but I think it worked okay.

    9. Looking looking*

      I am anxious here as well, I’ve reached out to ask a former supervisor for reference but they haven’t replied. It’s only been 2 days but I’m so nervous already! what if they say no????

    10. ThankYouRoman*

      Asking for a reference is typical stuff that anyone in a high power role expects to be asked for, even if they’re at a different company by the time a request is made.

      They’re welcome to say “no”, you’re not banging on their door wailing until they give in or something. It’s a standard business interaction!

    11. Hallowflame*

      Definitely reach out to your former supervisor, it is completely appropriate to ask them for a reference.
      You should definitely ask co-workers and/or former co-workers as well. They can give valuable insight into how you are to work with that a supervisor may not have, and for those that you have supervised or mentored in the past, they can speak to your managerial skills. Just be sure you have no supervisory influence over them now, to avoid any conflict of interest.

    12. DaffyDuck*

      It is a bright spot in my day whenever I can give someone a good reference. If you were a good employee certainly reach out and ask! Most normal people are happy to see others growing in their careers and doing well.

    13. NACSACJACK*

      Thank you for asking this question. I’ve worked at my place for over 20 years and most of my prior supervisors and managers either still work for the company in the same department I do, have long since retired or I have no contact information for them. One of them never responded to a LINKEDIN message.

      1. Not Maeby But Surely*

        It’s a tough spot to be in! It sometimes feels like I’m doomed to be at CurrentJob forever.

    14. restingbutchface*

      As a manager, I always have a reference from my second in command – someone who can tell the caller what I’m like to work for. I love it when people I am interviewing do the same so don’t assume it’s not worth anything. What could this president say about you, really? I want to hear from the person who sat with you every day.

      As long as you’re not currently managing them, I don’t see it as a conflict either. See it as a positive, don’t tell potential employers that you didn’t want to bother this other dude!

    15. Jane of All Trades*

      You should definitely reach out and ask him. Providing references is very common request, and in my experience people who have enjoyed working with you are happy to help you further your career by providing a reference.
      As far as I understand this thread, it appears that they are not a recent reference though. I know you are hesitant to talk to your supervisor, but if you have a good relationship with somebody at your job who does or did supervise or mentor you, maybe feel them out to see if they’d be available to provide a reference confidentially? I have done this for coworkers, and have had supervisors do this for me. You could even say that you’ll provide a reference from current supervisors but only as the very last step in the process because they are all at your current place of work.

    16. SemiRetired*

      Of my three references last time I applied for a job, two were retired and one of those was a colleague who knew my working style from 20+ years sitting in meetings together or other projects. My third was another former colleague who was still employed but had managed an adjacent department. I too had a lack of still living but not employed at the same place former bosses. If you’re still in touch with the retired ones, they can be good references, as well as people who know your work well even if they haven’t managed you.

    17. JulieCanCan*

      Absolutely ask your former supervisor you’re definitely overthinking it! I’m sure he’ll be happy to help you.
      I know it feels weird to ask for stuff like this but it’s pretty standard. Don’t worry – just ask and get it over with.
      Good luck with your job search!

  8. psychresearcher*

    When you ask for a raise, is there an unspoken expectation that you’ll stay in the position for a certain amount of time if/after said raise is given? Six months? A year? Or is this not a thing?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      If you get a raise? Or if you explicitly ask for it and then get it? I don’t think there’s a specified amount of time, but if you ask for a raise and then leave a month later, that seems to be asking in bad faith, especially if your boss had to go to bat for you to get you that raise—you’re not then creating any additional good will there.

      I think, since most places tend to have some kind of annual review, it’s not an unreasonable expectation that if you vie for a significant raise (not just cost of living increases) and then get it that you’ll stay for another year. But if something comes up (you have to care for ailing parents, your partner enters a grad school program, etc.), you don’t have anything to apologize for.

    2. Not a thing?*

      I personally left my first “real” job out of college within a few weeks to a month of receiving a small raise, but I didn’t ask for the raise. They felt that I did a good enough of a job to merit the raise. I had gotten an offer at a company in the exact field I wanted to work in at the time. They were disappointed that I chose to leave but understood and moved on as a company. I left on good terms with this company.

      Even if you ask for a raise and a better opportunity comes along, you have to look out for yourself and do what’s best for you. While your current company will be sad to lose you, they can also hire out for your replacement at a lower rate that you are getting so essentially they “win.”

    3. Holly*

      Granted, I’ve never been in this situation, but I don’t think so. You’re getting a raise because it’s what the company believes you’re worth, not because of anything in return – unless there’s something specifically discussed. Another company could value you more and offer you more money, just getting a raise at your current workplace doesn’t mean you can’t take it.

    4. Jenn*

      If they don’t make it explicit, no. My spouse negotiated a large raise but institutional problems at his workplace got worse over the next six months, so he left but was able to parlay his higher salary in negotiations with his new employer.

      If they don’t make you sign anything, you have no obligation.

    5. Le’Veon Bell is seizing the means of production*

      I mean, yeah, if you’re asking for a raise, there’s an implication of “this is what I’d require to continue being happy here” and I would be a bit miffed as a manager if you asked for a raise, I gave it to you, and then you peaced out a month later.

      And, like, raises given to you are a retention tactic… but, you’re obviously not obligated to decline it if you’re job searching. It’s not your job to make their retention tactics work, while you could argue that it *is* your job to, when you’re considering job searching because you don’t make as much money as you’d like, name a number that *would* make you happy (and, I would say, happy for at least 6 months to a year).

      None of it is universal or enforceable, but there is some implicit indication in how these things work that it’s worth keeping in mind, and if you do end up leaving a job shortly after being given a raise, you want to have though through how you’ll address it to preserve relationships you want to preserve.

    6. Audioph*

      This is a great question.

      Over the summer, I had pushed for a raise and job description/title change. While the raise was decent, it was not within the range I specified and the title/job description change left me in strange category. I’m certainly appreciative but I don’t see myself staying in my new role a full year.

    7. Lumen*

      There may be, but not in the ethics/legal sense. It may be “your employers feelings will be hurt and they will be frustrated” if you leave shortly after getting a requested raise, but how they *feel* about it isn’t really your problem, unless you’re worried about burnt bridges. And frankly, the kind of employer who holds a grudge about an employee who took a raise and then left soon after is not the kind of employer I want to work for or use as as reference.

      I’d run for the hills from an employer who made a raise contingent on a binding promise to stay for X months, because that strikes me as incredibly shady and distrustful.

    8. KatieKate*

      I have now left two jobs shortly after receiving a promotion and raise. This only happens because my raises were only approved after months of negotiation and waiting, and in the meantime I was interviewing. Oops? I feel bad about it, but also.. I had to move on.

      1. The New Wanderer*

        I don’t think it’s all that different from someone who gets raises when they first ask, without the runaround, but are looking to progress in their careers which sometimes means moving on from the current company. If anything I do think it’s more understandable that you are already poised to move on when a company drags their feet about giving you a raise, since you don’t actually know if that’s going to happen before you leave for a better offer or not. Plenty of people have written in asking what to do about promised raises that haven’t happened for a year or longer. But in both cases, you’re looking out for your career and you don’t really owe the company any more of your time if you get a better offer elsewhere.

    9. CupcakeCounter*

      I think it depends on the circumstances of the raise. Annual COL/merit that everybody gets, no obligation to stay. In theory that is based on economic reasons and the work you have done previously. If you boss calls you into a meeting and says “you are getting a 10% increase for reasons”, also no obligation.
      I think, however, if you ask for and receive exactly (or close enough) to what you asked for and some work had to be done on boss/company’s end you should stay for at least 6 month-1 year barring any significant issues within the company. I would compare it to accepting a counter-offer to stay vs taking another position.

    10. NewWorkingMama*

      I didn’t ask for a raise, but I was given a significant raise at my old job. Unfortunately, it was still way under what I would have made elsewhere. I went to my boss to acknowledge I appreciated the raise, and while I was in the middle of saying, “It’s not quite up to where I’d like to be, but I understand the money might not be there now…” she interrupted to say I should be happy with what I got because no one else got anything. I finished the rest of my sentence, which was…”Would it be okay if I worked from home one day per week in lieu of more money right now?” She said yes, but her initial response stuck with me. I ended up leaving a month or so later for a new job and when I went to tell her…she asked me if they could match what the new company was offering (way way more.) I was so annoyed that they gave me a hard time asking for more money a month or so earlier only to turn around and offer even more when I was leaving. Long story short, I don’t think there is an expected amount of time to stay after a raise.

      1. NewWorkingMama*

        I should also add this was the same company that once gave me a raise and promotion the SAME day they laid off about 30 people. HR politics was not a strongsuit.

    11. Yorick*

      I guess it depends. How big was the raise? Was it fairly routine or did you negotiate it at an off time? Did your manager have to go to bat for you to get the raise?

  9. WFH*

    What are your tips for staying relevant while working from home? I’ll be switching to remote location and want to make sure I don’t become back of mind in my team.

    1. Ginger*

      Regular communication, both formal (scheduled check ins) and informal (calls, emails). Does your company use an IM system? Being available and consistently reaching out keeps you engaged with team members.

    2. Publish_or_Perish*

      I moved from working in the office with my team to working remotely about a year and a half ago. I’ve definitely had a few issues with feeling like my team doesn’t think of me as being quite as accessible as I was before, but I think there are ways to counteract that. One thing that helps me to feel connected is to have regular video meetings with key team members (my manager and my assistant, in my case). We also have a weekly team meeting and all of the remote team members connect via video. Video is much better than phone calls for making you feel connected to those team members who are still in the office.

      A second suggestion I have is to volunteer for things a bit more often than you might have in the past. For instance, my team has a lot of turn over from year to year in entry-level roles. For the past two years I’ve volunteered to lead a travel-related training session for all of the new folks on the team who will be required to travel in the future. That’s slowly becoming my “thing,” one of the ways I contribute to the team regularly (and am seen to be participating) even though I’m off-site.

      I wish you all the best with the transition! Working remotely can be a challenge, but I really love it most of the time.

    3. Pinkie Pie*

      Music or podcasts in the background help ease the loneliness. Schedule chances to meet people, be responsive to emails and phone calls.

    4. Two Dog Night*

      Lots of IMing. Try to make time for “water-cooler” chats–it’s harder when you’re not in the office, because you don’t know how busy people are, but try to get into a routine. Drop your team an e-mail if you find some info they might find useful. I find that it takes effort not to go off by myself and not talk to anyone, and I really have to make it a priority to keep in touch with people–think of it as one of your tasks, just like anything else. Good luck!

    5. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      I work in an office, but not directly with anyone in this office. So I’m basically a remote employee. I spend about 80%+ of a normal weekday in meetings via skype with all of my coworkers so does everyone who works in larger locations with their teams. So I’m lucky that in that we have a remote culture.

      Even with that I feel like odd man out sometimes. Here’s what I do. Remember to chit chat. Are you calling someone to discuss a specific thing. Make sure you spend those first few minutes asking about their dog, weekend, kids, whatever. Be the guy that starts non-work emails (don’t abuse this idea). Here’s a great example; one of my remote employees just this week sent an email with pictures of her dog and cats that she’s always talking about. It started a quick round of ‘furry show and tell’ when everyone on the team responded with their own pictures. It’s a quick and painless way to keep those interpersonal relationships alive.

      Don’t rely too much on IM and email. Call every once in a while for simple things. It’s a great way to keep you present in your coworkers minds.

      Schedule weekly and try like the dickens to maintain 1:1 meetings with your boss. Not always possible, but helps keep you out there.

      In other words, you might have to work more at this than your coworkers and take an active role in communication more so than if you were in the office.

    6. RR*

      Not a remote worker, but someone who is frequently collaborating with WFH types. Some effective strategies I’ve seen put to good use include scheduling regular check ins (biweekly/monthly/bimonthly depending on the nature of your work relationship). emailing around articles/weblinks, etc that might be of interest. Sharing drafts for informal review/comment. Because you won’t be running into folks in the hallway to run ideas by them, you have to be more intentional and plan for interactions.

    7. nonymous*

      I also try to go into the main office a few times a year for a week each time. Then about a month before the visit, I set some personal goals so that it’s basically my very own conference experience, which generates a flurry of activity both before and after the travel. I like to get at least one new project that should last >4mos out of each visit. I also try to coincide roll-outs with the on-site visits, so that I’m managing the initial shock of change (my co-workers hate change, lol).

    8. This is the story of a man named Neil Fisk*

      Will you be working from home while the rest of your team stays in the office? Or is everyone working remotely?

      As previously mentioned: get comfortable with whatever kind of computer text messaging system your company uses. Make sure you save every conversation – not for any kind of dirty tricks, it’s just that you’ll likely find yourself swapping contexts a lot and you’ll want to recall just where you are on multiple topics.

      Very important: computer text messaging systems are often used as a kind of presence indicator. So make sure you’re logged in at the beginning of every day. Also: carry your cellphone everywhere. Even on restroom breaks. I’ve noticed that some bosses – despite what they might say – are suspicious of people who “work from home.” So when anyone – especially the boss – calls you, it’s a very good thing to answer that call. If you simply *cannot* answer, you might want to consider multitasking and using your computer to text the caller: “Hey boss! What’s up? I see you called me but I’m in the middle of a meeting with the Shanghai team. But I can text if you want to.”

      Videoconferencing is popular these days. Get familiar with it, even have a place set up in your home that is your “videoconference studio”. Keep the kids and pets out when you’re using it. Practice using it for both one-to-one and group calls, attending meetings and hosting meetings, and make sure the video and audio is consistently working well. You don’t want to be the person who wastes the first 5 minutes of every meeting fumbling with their audio settings. Also: make sure you know how to use the screen-sharing and presentation capabilities of the teleconference software.

      Oh, and when teleconferencing, make sure you’ve shut down any chat or potentially embarrassing stuff on your computer. I’ve seen a lot of people forget this – and then they’re presenting to mgmt and a chat pops up that says “hey baby, wanna take a break?” Even if it’s completely innocent, it looks bad.

      You’ll probably be using your work’s calendar system to schedule lots and lots of meetings. Get good at it. Create a footer for your email that gives your name, location, phone number, email, etc etc etc. Make sure that info is in the company directory, too. You want to be easily accessible.

      Also, make a standard footer for your meeting notices that provides a link or other info on how to dial-in / connect to your meetings and teleconferences and phone conferences.

      Don’t be shy about calling people up just to talk. Hopefully you’re on friendly terms with at least a few of your co-workers – make it a point to chat with each one at least once a week.

      If you’re working at home while everyone else is in the office, you should still try to go into the office at least once every two weeks. It’s not hard to come up with a reason – just meeting for lunch is good.

      If everyone is working remote – keep your eyes and ears open for opportunities to meet face-to-face with anyone who might be coming to town. And if there are meetings out of town – some people meeting up at headquarters, say – try to get in on that. Travel money is often hard to come by, but it’s perfectly legitimate to tell your boss “I’d like to go to San Jose next week to meet up with Bob and Ted and Carol and Alice”. You might get turned down, but no-one is going to fault you for wanting to make (or renew) F2F contact with your co-workers.

      Oh, and in the midst of all of this – try to do your actual work :) Personally, I never found that part difficult. But you are perceptive to ask about this kind of thing, because you have to put some extra effort in to stay engaged. Some people aren’t good at it – in my experience, these are often people who are trying to take advantage of the system. But if you are a responsible person with a good work ethic, the extra effort in ‘networking’ can become just a normal part of work.

      I worked from home for 10+ years with numerous teams all over the world. It worked out very well. If there was a downside, it was that I was “on” almost every day, from the time I brewed my first cup of coffee until bedtime. Also – when I had to go back to the office, it was a tough transition.

      1. This is the story of a man named Neil Fisk*

        One last thing, quickly: if you’re accessing work via a VPN and/or a company computer, be careful about the kind of content you access. Pr0n is obviously problematic – but also some companies might object to you visiting a pro-union site, or political sites, or accessing religious content, etc. Or if you’re looking at job recruitment websites. I don’t mean to make you paranoid, but it would be wise to have two computers, one that is strictly for business, and the other for your personal use.

        1. NoLongerYoungButLotsWiser*

          +1. We have “administered” computers, and there is a key stroke logger, and they know (can find out if needed) every email & attachment sent. I was always careful, but a contractor… well, let’s just say the rules tightened up after the indiscretion and security investigation. Such a high volume workplace, there is no way a human is actively reading everything, but I think there is an algorithm running somewhere looking for some key words to flag for human eyes.
          Typing this on my personal laptop. LOL. I never access any personal website from work that I can’t justify…

    9. Seeking Second Childhood*

      If you’ve got Skype, use the “what’s happening today?” to flag your hot projects & post your usual schedule.
      ie “Core hours : 8-4, can schedule in advance between 7 & 6”
      or “Current projects: Teapot Dome submission due Thursday 3pm!”

      Ask to get into a regular team conference call. And in the morning watch for your co-workers on Skype to say hello like you would at the water cooler.

      1. Seeking Second Childhood*

        As an aside, keep the background of your workspace video-chat ready. It’s far too easy to click “present” and get the video feed instead. And there are good reasons to use that videofeed — easiest way to point out a crack in the new prototype for example, or how the lid is supposed to fit onto the teapot. You don’t want to have someone looking past your teapot to a sink full of dirty dishes or a table of unsorted laundry.

        Find reasons to get down to the main office — and if you’re able, consider having your co-workers visit you at yours.

  10. Lettuce Mutton Tomato*

    There’s no walking back from this, is there? The short version: I think I’ve done too good of a job pretending to be busy and now my boss wants to take more responsibilities off of my plate as a result.

    For the past year I’ve been in a newly-created position. One thing I’ve learned about my boss is that he isn’t receptive to feedback and very much operates under the authoritarian method of management. When I’ve mentioned to him several times that I don’t have enough work to fill my time, I’m met with flat out disagreement from him and the conversation is shut down. I have an assistant and he insists I’m not giving her enough work to do. I’ve tried to give her as much as I can and, to be honest, I think she’s actually busier than I am. I’ll admit I’ve been reluctant to give her more because I don’t know what that will leave me with! I’ve taken several half days recently and discovered that I can get everything done in about four hours every day. Obviously this ebbs and flows depending on where we are in the calendar year, but other than super busy times like the end of the quarter I often find myself bored.

    About six months ago my boss freaked out about something that wasn’t at all my mistake and during his rant he went off on me for being on social media or surfing the web, implying that I’m making mistakes because I’m goofing off instead of focusing on work. I won’t deny that I spent a lot of time on the internet and I realized that if my boss has an issue with it I should stop, even if I happened to have no work to do. Unfortunately, that means I also no longer feel comfortable surfing the web to look up tutorials that are relevant to my work, which is what I was also doing to kill time when I had nothing to do. Ever since then I make tasks take 10x longer than necessary just to fill my time. I have done every mundane administrative maintenance task I can think of. I’ve tidied my desk a million times. I open random spreadsheets and stare at them to look busy. I leave folders stacked on my desk so it looks like I’m busy. I hate doing this but I feel like if my boss isn’t receptive to my feedback then I have no choice.

    So when my boss came to me this week to tell me that he’s “stepping in” to redistribute the work load more fairly I wasn’t thrilled. He actually commented on how I shouldn’t be so busy that I come to work every day and stare at my computer with my desk covered with paperwork. I almost laughed when he said that since those are just my pantomimes of work! I again tried to bring up the work load issue and was shut down. Of course, this also makes me worry he will figure out on his own how little I have to do and I’ll be the one to inevitably get the axe since I’ll be the most useless and least utilized employee. I can’t very well tell him now that I’ve been faking being busy for the past six months! Do I just suck up the changes and find more ways to pretend to look busy? There are other reasons I’ve considered job searching but I gave up on that idea since I know I’ll never find a job making this much money. Not to mention that I have only one reference since I’ve only ever had one job before this. I’ve been here 13 years and can’t use anyone from here. Other employees have been fired when my boss discovers they’ve been job searching. I feel like I’m stuck here and that I have no say in things. Should I just be happy that I’m being paid so much to do a small amount of work? Unless anyone has advice on dealing with a stubborn boss who doesn’t take feedback I’m not sure what more to do.

    1. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Oh man. I understand this SO well! I’m also in a newly created position that, for a LONG time, gave me next to nothing to do. No assistant, though, thank goodness, but you walk a line between being so bored you don’t want to do anything and being terrified that you’ll be fired because you have nothing to do, despite asking for more. Honestly? I think you should start job searching because, well, you’re bored, and boredom not only fries your brain, it can– it does in my case– ramp up your anxiety. Too much time to think and reflect = too much time to let your thoughts run away with you. You have this job now, one which doesn’t seem to be going anywhere, so you have time to figure out what fits and what doesn’t.

      Beyond that, no advice, just a TON of sympathy!

      1. Lettuce Mutton Tomato*

        Oh my goodness, you described it perfectly! And yes, I already feel the boredom getting me down. I’m just not happy about my job anymore and I’m sure that’s a part of it. It doesn’t help that my boss doesn’t seem to know exactly what I do, which makes me confused as to why he’s so confident that I have plenty to fill my time. Maybe my acting is just *that* good. Perhaps I can point my job search in that direction since I clearly have the talent! :D

      2. I See Real People*

        This is me too, for three years. I’m so glad you said that about extended boredom leading to anxiety. I didn’t know for sure where all of it came from. I’m job searching. It’s hard.

    2. StrikingFalcon*

      I would infinitely rather take a lower paying job (provided I could still pay my bills) than sit around pretending to work or work for a boss that scolds me for both not working enough and for working too much (??).

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Yep, this.

        Sometimes the hardest prisons to break out of are the prisons we create in our own heads. You are thinking about this so much you have negated your own options. Go back to job hunting, especially if you believe your job might get cut.

        My bias is that I would rather be crying from to heavy a work load than be crying from to little to do. I almost walked out of a job once because they did not give me anything to do for days.

        OP, at best your boss is dense. If you are determined to stay put then let him redistribute the work to see if he stops talking about it. I am seeing yellow flags with the way he reacted to your one mistake. Additionally he does not listen to you. He fires people for job hunting??? Icing on the cake he has you convinced it is YOUR fault that he thinks you are busy, when he created that whole situation. Get out before you forget how normal work places function.

        1. Lettuce Mutton Tomato*

          Oh, believe me, this site has opened my eyes to how dysfunctional my workplace is. It’s gotten worse since the former co-owner left but it took many red flags for me to finally realize how bad things are. I keep telling myself I can just roll with it and find ways to work around each new bout of ridiculousness. I mean, as long as the company’s still viable and I’m getting such a hefty paycheck then why fight it or look for a new job? I’m starting to see how much that’s wearing on me. The constant whiplash from being told one thing and then being chastised for doing things that way is starting to drive me bonkers. I don’t think I complained about my job as much in the previous 12 years combined as I have in the last year since the co-owner left. I might have to set myself a timeline for how long I’ll continue to give this a chance before I bail. I’m too good at talking myself into putting up with not so great situations. A deadline would help keep me accountable to myself.

            1. Lettuce Mutton Tomato*

              Alas, no. He’s still friends with my boss (who is now the sole owner). I’m 100% sure he would say something.

    3. Llellayena*

      Not sure if this will help since your boss seems to ignore any of your self-evaluations on workload but: document what you accomplish in a week with how much time each task takes (without the “stretching to fill time” adjustment). Include all the little tidy desk, organize paperwork type tasks as well. Put all this in an email with a follow-up paragraph of “I’d love to take on Task C and D and can make time for them by eliminating/reducing time spent on .” If he gets annoyed that you’re doing filler tasks, tell him (also by email) that you have repeatedly asked for additional tasks and been told you were too busy already (mention dates or week/month if you know them). The idea is to get your efforts to be assigned additional tasks in writing so you can go above his head if he tries to discipline you for not doing work. You tried to get additional work and were told no, that’s on him. And keep job hunting just in case. Good luck.

      1. Noobtastic*

        That’s a good idea for middle management, but the boss is now the sole owner (see OP’s comment above about getting a reference from the previous co-owner), and so there’s no where “up” to go.

        I recommend job searching without the reference, as best you can (you might get lucky), and in the meantime, fill your time with stuff that will increase your skills. No web-surfing, except the tutorials, and (clean your history first!), you can show your boss that you have been spending excess time building up your skills for your current job. He can’t really complain about that, but it does give you some leverage for the “give me more work” conversation. And, in the meantime, you’ll get better at the work you do have. Also, you can spend a lot of time practicing those new skills. Open up Word, and explore all the options you’ve never used before. Create a mail-merge, just for the practice. Use strange and interesting formulas in Excel. Create a data-base, and practice querying and creating reports. In short, use all your spare time educating yourself. You won’t be bored. You’ll actually be productive, improving yourself.

        And if he should fire you, for job hunting, or for being the wrong amount of busy, then you’ll at least be really sharp in your office skills for the next job. In fact, you can put that sort of thing in your CV or cover letter. “I have studied Microsoft Office in depth, and can use many of the more rare functions. They are not used as often as they should be, and I have lots of ideas about increasing productivity, by using macros and rare functions, that are already at our disposal.” With that kind of knowledge, you could become the go-to guru at your new place, and surely, you can come up with ways to increase productivity in a variety of environments, if they are using the programs you have mastered.

        In my experience, most office workers get to be competent with these programs, but almost none of them truly master them. The ones who do master them are considered solid gold assets. “Go ask Wakeen if there’s a formula for that. Or maybe he can create a macro for that recurring task.” Amazingly enough, there really ARE a lot of productivity-boosting things that a truly skilled MS Office user can do without spending a cent on more software. Learn how to be that person, and your time will be very well spent, indeed.

        And good luck. It sucks working for an unreasonable, and irrational boss.

        Another idea is to take some of the work back from the assistant, and you can both work together on increasing your skills. You’ll both be just as busy, and you’ll both be in a better position when/if you leave that company.

    4. Le’Veon Bell is seizing the means of production*

      You’re living the dream. Figure out stuff to do that looks like work but is more fulfilling than twiddling your thumbs. Write a novel. Do a side hustle. Do more reading in your industry.

      A key question here is: how ambitious are you? If you dream of climbing the corporate ladder or becoming an executive or business owner one day, you probably want to job search, cause this job is likely to be a dead-end until your boss retires or moves on (which, given that you’ve put in 13 years, is a perfectly fine master plan… loaf about in this job until that happens and you can try to take his job, or know that whoever replaces your boss is much more likely to listen to you and care about your job than your current one).

      If you’re not ambitious… well, again, congrats on living the dream! It’s OK to just suck money out of this company until someone decides you can’t anymore, especially if you already feel like you can’t use anyone here as a reference.

      Take some more work back from your assistant, and if you feel comfortable, let her in on what’s going on, and tell her she’s now welcome to take half days on Friday every week or whatever flexibility she’d enjoy to have. You can both live the dream!

    5. Nita*

      Since you have an assistant, I’ve got to ask – are you in a management position? Could there be a disconnect between the work you’ve done in the past, and the work you’re expected to do now? I’m asking because I’ve struggled with this kind of thing – moving from doing the day-to-day work on projects, to delegating this to others and diving into business development. I still feel weird when I spend most of my day not working on any particular project, and then realize I really haven’t been wasting the time when, several months later, all the new work I’ve been chasing materializes at the same time.

      1. Bostonian*

        And if you’re in any kind of management role, you have standing to start looking for collaborative efforts with other departments (depending on how large your organization is): schedule meetings to discuss what other people do, see if there’s any overlap or opportunities to create useful projects to do together.

        1. Lettuce Mutton Tomato*

          Oh, the company is tiny. Our entire office staff is seven people and that includes the warehouse manager and our sales guy. There aren’t any other departments or anything like that I can go to. It’s basically a tiny fiefdom ruled over by my boss/the owner. That’s part of the reason why it’s so hard to find advice for work issues, because it’s a unique situation that doesn’t match up to most organizations.

      2. Lettuce Mutton Tomato*

        You make a good point. I am technically in a management position, but the actual job hasn’t turned out to be quite what I expected when I was offered the promotion. My boss has such a hard time delegating and letting go that my role isn’t nearly as advanced as I expected. But it’s true that my job used to be a lot of doing. Doing daily tasks as they were given to me without having much idea of how they fit into the big picture. My new job does involve a lot more organizing and staying on top of the various administrative functions of the company. Now that I’ve got my systems and spreadsheets set up for all of that it doesn’t take much of my time to cover that stuff. I suspect that the guy who used to handle this stuff wasn’t as adept at using tools to make his job easier. For example, he did most of his math by hand using a calculator whereas I have spreadsheets set up to automatically calculate everything when I update one batch of numbers. So it likely took him longer to keep up with things, which may be what my boss is basing his workload calculations on. And I’ll admit I’m also bad at delegating. Why delegate something when I have nothing to do and I’ll just have to review the other person’s work anyway? I know that’s a terrible attitude as a manager but it’s hard to shake that feeling.

        1. Nita*

          I have a problem with delegating too! Especially when the other person is new, and it takes ages to correct their work. I force myself to delegate anyway, because otherwise they’ll never learn. I guess it’s different though, because there’s some 40 people in my department alone, and it doesn’t make sense to have the junior staff sit around with nothing to do while I’m doing work I could be handing off to them.

    6. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      Can you find more work to do? I’ve had to do this from time to time, but essentially I tend to work myself out of jobs. Meaning that when I start in a position I’m super busy and then eventually get to a point where my staff is trained and elevated in their duties, the big process improvements are mostly done, and I find myself not very challenged.

      This is when I either start doing the ‘want to do’s or I start farming myself out to other departments/projects. I’ve never had luck with telling bosses I need more work. Generally I’ve found that if I’m in that position they are just bad at delegation or there is something else preventing more stuff coming my way. On the other hand, I’ve never had a boss who hasn’t appreciated the kudos they’ve gotten for helping out and being a team player by having me pitch in to other things.

      Last but not least, is transferring to other departments/jobs an option? Usually what has happened is the results of my on the clock moonlighting is more doors and opportunities have been opened up for me.

      Warning… there is some risk to this. It’s always in the back of my head that someone could say… why we don’t really need Randomu… She’s not really adding much value in her job to the organization. It hasn’t happened yet, but it’s always a possibility I suppose.

      1. Lettuce Mutton Tomato*

        Eh, from broad job searching. Administrative positions seem to pay at least $10/hour less than I currently make. Unless I want to commute into the city (which I really, really don’t want to do!) I’m stuck with basic administrative jobs that want to pay nothing. It doesn’t help that I only have an Associates Degree so I know that limits my job prospects. That plus no references makes me feel I have no chance finding another job, let alone one that pays as generously as my current one.

        1. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

          This may be true, but you might also find yourself making a bit less for a while but on a track that would lead you to better prospects in the future.

          Also, would you have any interest in getting a BA? Maybe you could approach your boss and say that you want to go back to school and you can rearrange your tasks to make time to work on school projects?

        2. Noobtastic*

          Could you do correspondence classes to work towards a Bachelor’s degree? If so, could you do at least some of your studying at work? Get your textbooks in a pdf file, and read them on your computer, perhaps?

          That would be another way to make your time productive, while you improve your skills (beneficial for the company, right?), and make the leap smaller, from Associate’s degree to Bachelor’s degree. It may be that if you get fired, you can really buckle down on the Bachelor’s and finish quickly, and then really fly in the job search, with your degree completed.

          I’d start saving up dollar you can, so you’re prepared for time off work, and paying for expenses, possibly including tuition, supplies, and fees, and then, if you do get fired, you won’t be hurting, at least, while you look for a new job. If you save enough, you might just quit work, and go full-time to college.

          At any rate, don’t let your boredom show. Find something to engage your mind, preferably something that will increase your skills, so you can justify it for work. Personal improvement is beneficial to a company who knows how to use improved persons.

    8. MegPR*

      Could you make work for yourself? Documentation projects or efficiency improvements? Learn a new skill? I have an extremely hands off manager and if I don’t manage myself I will have literally nothing to do. So I make myself projects. I will make proposals on process changes or document a process for a new hire or some sort of similar value-add type project, that is outside of my normal responsibilities. Sometimes the suggestions go absolutely no where but some of them are implemented. I like staying busy, this is how I have accomplished it!

      1. Lettuce Mutton Tomato*

        I like your ideas and have already tried many of them. I honestly can’t think of anything else to do. I already put together an entire binder of step-by-step procedures for everything my assistant and I do in case I drop dead tomorrow and someone has to fill my shoes. Without being able to surf the web I don’t know how to develop new skills. I’ve gone through and archived or cleared out our old files, reorganized our shared file system, put together a month-by-month calendar of every task that needs to be completed that month, and gone through files we frequently use as templates and edited them for errors. I too prefer to be busy so I’ve been racking my brain for things to do. I feel like I’ve done everything there is to do around here!

        1. Knuddel Daddeldu*

          Would your company benefit from a quality management system certification (ISO 9001)?
          Many of your clients now may require that, and/or environmental management (ISO 14001). Ask your sales guy if it comes up in client discussions.
          If that sounds even mildly relevant, that would tie in with your step-by-step instructions.
          There is a fairly good, free template for the necessary procedures etc. available (google for “Oxebridge”).
          This would give you a few months of useful work before even calling in the auditors. You do not have to get certified, you can just set everything up and be “ISO 9001:2015 compliant” without spending money on a certificate (which requires an audit and will cost you a few grand). And it would be a useful skill to have for later as well.
          Full disclosure: I consult companies on how to set up their management systems and get certified as part of my job.

          1. only acting normal*

            Yes, and if boss challenges you being on the internet have a response prepared along the lines of “this is professional training to help me be more efficient at X / learn to take on Y / be better at task Z.” So it scratches his itches for making you both less and more busy.
            PS your boss is a loon.

          2. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

            I agree. Stay off social media and stick to training resources, unless he told you to stay off the internet altogether. If you only ever look at legit sites then you have more of a defense.

        3. Noobtastic*

          I like the ISO training/compliance suggestion. You might want to work with other people in the company, and ask them about cross-training, and documenting their jobs. After all, accidents and illness do happen, as you say, and it benefits the company to have those things backed up for ALL positions, not just yours and your assistant.

          And in the process of cross-training/documenting their jobs, you might find more ways to improve productivity for them, as well. Let THEM feel bored. Hahah.

          I agree. Your boss is a loon.

    9. Girl friday*

      Do they value your presence for some other reason that would mean that he would want to keep you around? Do they have security that monitors how people use their computers? Maybe he can see that you’re just messing around on the spreadsheets and he’s giving you a hard time in a joking way? Can you redistribute your own schedule so that you can get more done at work? Just throw the whole thing out and start over: planning your day constructively and creatively? I have those kinds of jobs where I laugh to myself about working hard or hardly working, or taking 30 minutes to do one thing versus doing 30 things in one minute. I have the oddest ability to find enough to do, so I really am just joking. Sometimes I do toss out my routine, and rework it from the ground up. It helps a lot. If you start from the mindset of being valued and appreciated, maybe new projects will appear. I hope so. If none of that works, plan a constructive and creative job search, because I might be endowing him with a sense of humor he doesn’t have!

      1. Girl friday*

        I would also increase your networking with people who do similar jobs in your area or in bigger cities in order to get new tasks and ideas. Your company may be stuck in a rut without realizing it. If he does value you, maybe you could plan an online training schedule that includes travel to conferences and give that overview to your boss. Be really creative and ask yourself what opportunities a total stranger would see in your job.

        1. Noobtastic*

          Networking can fill a lot of time, and you never know. You might find some new potential customers for your company!

  11. RedSonja*

    Hi all! I sent this question to Alison last night, and she suggested sharing it here.

    I work at a higher education facility that is currently in negotiations with several unions in our workplace. We recently had a strike regarding the lack of contract for several bargaining groups, and our union provides a monetary “hardship benefit” for those who join the picket line rather than working. To be eligible for the benefit, you must sign in at the beginning of picketing and sign out at the end, ~5 hours of attendance.

    After the strike, my coworker Eleanor told me that 2 other coworkers, Sean and Trevor, signed in for the picket line and then went to work, in effect being paid for working AND striking. I’ve been working closely with union leadership at our location, so I reported this to them, including providing documentation that Sean and Trevor signed off on performing work tasks on the day they were supposedly picketing.

    The union will handle not paying them, and I’m happy to leave it in their hands. My question is: should I tell their work supervisor about this? On one level, it’s union business, not work business. But on another, this shows a real willingness to be profoundly unethical for personal gain, which is alarming. On yet another level, there are few opportunities to benefit financially from being unethical at our workplace (we don’t handle money at all), other than reporting working for hours that aren’t actually worked, so maybe it doesn’t matter?

    I know that my utter disgust with their behavior is coloring my response, so I wanted to ask you (and the commentariat) what their thoughts were. Thank you!

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      First of all, A+ names.

      Second, if I was a supervisor, I would want to know that my reports were acting in such a non ethical manor so I think you need to tell them. The caveat there being, I don’t know what is legally allowed when you’re dealing with a union situation. If there is no legal issue though, definitely tell.

      1. RedSonja*

        Yay! Someone got the names!

        It’s all extra complicated because my direct supervisor, whom I have a very good relationship with, used to be their department head, but someone else is being transitioned into that spot. If it were still MY boss, I’d probably tell her, but I don’t know the other guy as well and have NO idea how he’d approach it, or if he’d even care.

    2. Very Special Librarian*

      As a proud Union supporter, I am also appalled. I would want to know if I was their supervisor, but I would also worry how this might impact things with the Union and with the negotiations. Can you ask your Union Rep for advice maybe?

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Since you have gone to the union first, I would leave it with the union rep to handle the situation. If you really cannot move through this then yes, go back to the person you reported it to and ask if you should let management know.

      2. LKW*

        Agreed, I don’t have experience in this area but am a big union supporter. Ask your union rep if they plan to take any action. My guess is that they will take the action that protects the union best, and may be willing to share how they plan to do that.

    3. Le’Veon Bell is seizing the means of production*

      Yeah, I agree that since you’ve already raised with the union, you shouldn’t raise to their supervisor.

      Do tell, like, *all* your coworkers, though. Management will find out naturally that way. You’re under no obligation to keep this secret.

    4. Not In NYC Any More*

      You can certainly tell management, but you might not get the reaction you expect. You see it as a huge ethical breach and want them punished. I don’t think that would happen. At the most, their manager would probably say, “hey, don’t do that it again,” and then forget about it. But depending on how acrimonious negotiations are, management might high-five the guys and actually look on them more favorably. After all, their showing up at work benefited their department because work got done. If they tried to put one over on the union, that’s just icing on the cake. You’ve informed the union. I’d let them take care of following up with management if need be.

    5. Zaphod Beeblebrox*

      They have acted fraudulently, and displayed bad faith to both their employer and the union.

      I’d make sure everyone that supported the strike knew about their behaviour, and in my capacity as a TU rep, I’d refuse to represent them in the future.

      1. Anon right now*

        Hey, just be careful with refusing to represent people. Legally we’re not allowed to do that (source: I’m a rep for my office), the union doesn’t get to pick and choose who they represent.

        1. Zaphod Beeblebrox*

          They are still entitled to union representation, but they aren’t necessarily entitled to *my* representation.

    6. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      What outcome are you looking for from the management? I’ve never been direct management in a union facility, but have worked very closely with union workplaces – so I may not know all the ins and outs but have some frame of reference.

      I find it very unlikely that management is going to react to this at all. I wouldn’t anyway. What they did in regards to the picket/strike/payment would very deliberately not be any of my business and I would keep it that way.

      The other thing you want to think about is if you want this incident getting tangled in the negotiations.

      1. SWOinRecovery*

        I imagine management will find out either way, but in case they don’t, I wouldn’t want to be the one feeding them that info. Just in case management throws it in the unions face as proof of whatever complaint they come up with (working conditions aren’t so bad, the union’s not bargaining in good faith, etc).

        1. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

          And they likely won’t be very happy if they think they are being used to punish people for union related issues.

          This feels like the OP is less concerned about flagging the integrity issues to management and just wants to expand the punishment to the employees. I admit that I could be wrong about that. But as a manager this is the first place my head would go.

    7. ThankYouRoman*

      They’re snakes and I’m glad they’re caught so they won’t be paid for that strike time by the union.

      However I’m familiar with management in these situations. They won’t be bothered. They got what they want, strike breakers to work. Unless these guys are part of an ethics team or something, nobody on management cares about the scam. They view unions as pests to say it nicely.

    8. RedSonja*

      Thank you all for your thoughtful responses!

      A few more details: We are just one campus in a large, statewide system, all of whose campuses participated in the strike. So it’s unlikely that this small incident could affect negotiations on the large scale, but that’s definitely a concern regardless.

      Our specific departmental management is pretty neutral to positive towards the union, but at higher levels there is some serious antagonism. This also complicates the reporting question.

      Finally, someone asked what outcome I wanted from reporting. Mostly, I want to know that, if these two choose to be unethical in the future, that it won’t impact the vulnerable population that we care for, because they either aren’t in a position where they can cut corners, or someone is following up on their work and making sure they’re actually doing what they say they do.

      I think that I’m going to take your suggestions of asking union leadership what they’re okay with, and go from there. Thank you all so much for both the validation AND the clearer heads!

    9. Argh!*

      Nope, don’t tell the supervisor. The supervisor only cares if the person shows up for work and does their job. They don’t (or shouldn’t) care what else they do.

    10. restingbutchface*

      I’d tell my supervisor and if they worked for me, I’d want to know.

      They tried to defraud an organisation linked with your business. Whether it’s a union, a supplier or the office next door, it does matter and just because they don’t have the opportunity to behave badly now doesn’t mean they won’t in the future.

    11. Anono-me*

      Can you get in trouble for providing the documentation to the Union showing that Sean and Trevor were working? Some places have strict rules about what can be shared and with whom.

    12. Girl friday*

      I’m a big fan of unions. Can’t be much help with the hardship benefits because I’ve never heard of those before, but I have belong to unions and I think as long as you’re addressing these issues with them it’s better than bringing them up with your employer. Google seems to think that hardship benefits are about debt settlements, and since I don’t believe in those either, I’m sorry I can’t be of more help. Paradoxically, I like unions but I also like cutting out the middleman.

    13. Noobtastic*

      Regardless of the union aspect, or the handling money aspect, these two have proven themselves to be liars. You can’t trust anything they say. That means you can’t trust the quality of their work, and have to go back and check everything that they do. That takes a lot of unnecessary time, that would not have to be spent on trustworthy employees.

      Tell the boss. If he doesn’t do anything about it, well, that’s his call. You still did the right thing for the company (and the union) by reporting it.

  12. Dragoning*

    My grandboss is supposed to get back to me today on whether or not she’s going to renew my contract (which is up at the end of the year). There’s a whole host of reasons why it would be a terrible idea for her to cancel it, but I’m not sure she actually realizes that.

    Wish me luck. I don’t want to job hunt through the holidays.

    4. iambadatusernames*

      I find out the exact same thing in two weeks! I gave my boss a list of projects I’m actively working on to give to grandboss, but who knows if he’ll listen.

      It’s actually nice to know I’m not the only person in the world going through this, though I wish none of us were!

      1. Dragoning*

        My boss is, unfortunately, covering a maternity leave in a foreign country so he’s not here to bat for me at all times. He’s doing what he can—I actually brought it up to him because I hadn’t heard anything and was feeling anxious, so he brought it to Grandboss’s attention earlier this week.

        I think grandboss is measuring our workload incorrectly–it’s frustrating. But there’s not much I can do to correct her.

  13. LDP*

    Just a vent. My boss is being a jerk about my vacation days and wants to talk about my attitude after she’s badgered me into changing my personal plans to make her life easier. I’m applying for new jobs like crazy, but I’m stuck here for the time being. Any positive vibes or good wishes that anyone feels inclined to send my way would be greatly appreciated. I’m trying my best to remain calm and professional, but my breaking point is disturbingly close. :(

    1. AY*

      Six months ago, I cried every day on the way to the bus stop after work because I was so stressed out. I focused every bit of energy I had on finding a new job, and I’m so much happier now. You can do this! Spend as much time as you can in your job search and lean on your support system. Soon, it will be just a memory. Good luck!

    2. Beehoppy*

      Sending all the good vibes. I was trapped in a job that was making me miserable earlier this year: Boss didn’t understand what I did, kept assigning me responsibilities not within my wheelhouse with no training, disrespected me, a colleague made inappropriate , sexist, racist, and homophobic remarks daily, PLUS I had a one hour commute each way. Job search was a long one but I now have a great job more in line with my skills, boss who respects and values me, AND I work remotely. You can do it!

      1. LDP*

        Ugh, that sounds miserable!! :( My commute is getting longer and longer, which is definitely adding to the drain of it all. I’ve been applying to a bunch of places lately, so hopefully something comes through soon.

    3. ThankYouRoman*

      *hugs* Another one who escaped a terrible boss. I’m going to be a year free in a few weeks. I’m healthier, happier and paid so much better. Keep fighting for yourself and believe in your ability to get away from that nonsense.

    4. Argh!*

      I have started viewing meetings and one-on-one as sociological studies, so (most) things that would normally be triggering are now intriguing instead. Crappy managers are either 1) stupid 2) not properly trained 3) mentally ill or 4) evil.

      Hypothesizing a diagnosis here in crazytown has become a rather enjoyable hobby.

      1. ThankYouRoman*

        Seriously! If I wasn’t fascinated by human behavior, I’d cry a lot more at work. Everyone thinks I’m so chill and roll with things, that’s not my natural state at all! I’ve developed the ability to give zero efs and watch the nonsense from my perch!

      2. Noobtastic*

        Haha! Yeah, sure, you know you don’t do the armchair diagnosis on internet sites like this, but in your own head? Knock yourself out!

        I remember reading an advice columnist advising a worker in a bad environment (get out, but until you can…) to pretend she was a spy, and she was gathering all the information about the people, the place, the stuff, to put into a report and send to her superiors, so they could formulate the perfect strategy to take down their enemies.

        If you can’t change your environment, at least you can control your own mind.

  14. NoLongerBurnedOut*

    For those of you that learned to successfully advocate for yourself at work:

    How did you go about training your “shiny spine”? I have some bad habits that I’m trying to train myself out of (agree and then regret, hesitate and lose the moment, not getting as much money as I feel I should during salary negotiations/promotions) and I’m curious how other people have done it. How’d you start? What small steps did you take that you look back and realize that’s where you started on a different path?

    1. Jane*

      One thing that has helped me is thinking about how my needs/demands play in to the company’s overall goals as well as framing requests as “What can I do to make this happen?” rather than “When are you going to do this for me?”

      1. NoLongerBurnedOut*

        Is that in your head or out loud? Do you just keep it in mind as you work through the issue?

    2. Muriel Heslop*

      Rehearsed speaking assertively into a full-length mirror and doing karate moves when I made a particularly strong point. So ridiculous but it worked. My therapist gave it to me as an assignment when I was in college. The other one she gave involved looking at myself in the mirror with a bag over my head (with hole cut out so I could see and talk) and that would help me disassociate my actual self from my assertive/positive talk. I didn’t like it but it worked for others, apparently. So, I have only weird advice.

      Good luck!

    3. NoLongerBurnedOut*

      As an example: I had a job I knew I was leaving (severely underpaid, didn’t like the work anymore anyway) so I took it as an opportunity to try to negotiate a raise. I got hem-hawed a bit but conversations implied they would make it right at eval time. I got my raise, then quit a month or so later.

      I feel like I really should have pushed back at the “eval time” thing because they were hiring in 2 or 3 new people doing the same job as I was at rates that were 20%+ my current salary. I should have pushed them to make it right then (when the hiring first started), and not waited 5 months. But, I did advocate for myself, so I was happy with that part. Baby steps….

      1. CynicallySweet7*

        I don’t have a lot of suggestions for what to do in the moment. But I did want to address the baby steps thing. I think a lot of people say that when they think they’re doing too little too slowly, but I disagree. Especially if you’re trying to deal with something like fundamentally change the way you react in surprise situations. I’m not saying don’t try for big change, but I think reveling in the baby steps can help you get there. So maybe if you don’t focus so much on what you should have done in the moment, and instead look at the fact that you were able to advocate for yourself it will be helpful. Like, if you’re freezing in the moment, think back on the time you did advocate for yourself and take strength from that… hope that’s helpful!

    4. Le’Veon Bell is seizing the means of production*

      I’m still *far* from being good at this, but honestly my biggest thing has been, in those moments, thinking to myself: “Just spit it out.” Spit out the words. They don’t have to be perfect, and usually once you spit out words, that’s not the end; there’s a discussion where you can refine what you mean and pick more perfect words, but in most situations, the #1 intervention to compel yourself to make is to just spit the words out.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      Ugh.
      It was a process for me and it did not happen in one month or one year.

      I had to figure out what was important to me and what was not important to me. Not everything requires standing up for myself.

      I realized that I had to meet people on their playing field not mine. For example, some people needed me to reduce things down to dollars. “If we do X then that will cost us Y dollars, if we do Z then that will cause is four times as much.” Other people were strongly motivated by fear. “Well if we are worried about A happening, let’s do [handy steps 1 through 3] to lessen the chances of A happening.”

      As I went along using this I realized that having a spine was more about having a well thought out rationale for what I wanted. This meant setting aside the negative thoughts to allow brain space for logical reasons to develop. It’s way to easy to jump to “the answer will be no, no matter what I say/do”. And those types of thoughts have to be pushed aside.

      Agree/regret, hesitate/lose are actually have a common thread. Presence of mind. You want to think faster or think on your feet more. A good way to develop this is to use quiet time to review similar instances in the past. How did those instance go? When did they work well? Is this new instance similar to any of the instances that worked well in the past? I used a lot of my commute time to figure out where I had made good calls and where I had made bad calls. I got into the specifics of those judgement calls and why they went well or went poorly. On the ones that went poorly, I would decide what the learning experience was. “I will never agree to a deadline of Friday at 4:30 AGAIN!”
      Tricky part: Actually DO this, never agree to that deadline time again or whatever your learning experience has showed you.

      After a bit you end up with some rules of thumb that you work by.

      People notice other people’s accuracy. If you can’t be accurate, then don’t talk. Seriously. “I will look into it and get back to you at x time.” Or, “I need a minute to give you that answer.” Error on the side of caution, always. Don’t guess, don’t allow yourself to make random guesses. We have to live with the results of our random guesses and it’s a self-inflicted hell. Know what you can and cannot deliver. If you need time to figure it out then say so.

      As far as raises, it’s a good idea to remember the boss has to explain it to her boss. Try to think of it as, “What wording would really help the Big Boss to understand a raise is a good idea.” This works into general advice also because many times we are unaware but we are providing the wording and ideas that our bosses will use when they talk to their boss.

    6. Cathullu*

      I actually just went to a lecture on this yesterday! Two big takeaways for me: ownership and risk taking. I think they support each other. Ownership means realizing that no one is is going to do anything on your behalf and recognizing that if there are things you want or ideas you’d like to see implemented, then you have to take charge of those things. Risk taking is doing just that: taking risks by speaking up! The woman who spoke to us yesterday, a VP, says that as someone who is naturally shy and is “othered” a lot (she’s a woman and comes from a math background and is an immigrant and is a WOC) she realized she needed to take risks in order to advance. What she’s discovered over her career is that most things aren’t as risky as we think and she has moved from being very risk averse to risk seeking! This was a real light bulb moment for me. Start small, take the risk and own it, whatever it is. You can do this!

    7. AdAgencyChick*

      For me it was becoming a manager that did it. Once I saw other departments trying to treat my direct reports poorly, I went all mama-bear. Then I realized: If I wouldn’t want anyone treating my direct reports this way, why would I let them treat me that way either?

      This is not specific to salary negotiations — more like getting work dumped on me at 4:30 PM and a request for same-day turnaround, that sort of thing.

      A flat “no” usually goes over poorly, so instead I try to say things like, “I can give you X instead of Y,” and then the unreasonable requester gets to walk away feeling like she got something even if it is only 10% of what was asked for, or if it’s what was asked for but 3 days later.

    8. SarahKay*

      There’s a whole thing about disasters like plane crashes, that people who get out are ones who’ve thought about worst case, and what they’ll do / how they’ll respond, which makes it more do-able if the worst ever does happen. Obviously, life is (hopefully!) not a plane crash, but for me it’s still applicable – the more prepared I am for a given awkward situation, the better I do when it actually occurs.

      So I would say try and learn from these moments where you wish you’d acted differently. Practice what you will do or say to avoid them in future – and also know what risks you are or aren’t willing to take to avoid being in that place again.

      My example: my company only offers a fixed maximum percentage for internal role moves, regardless of how much ‘higher’ the new role is. The first time I changed roles I settled for less than what I had wanted and then regretted it for the whole next year, knowing I was badly underpaid. (I was lucky then that I had a good manager who went to bat for me and got me a decent pay rise bringing me more into line with where I should be.)
      The next time I was changing roles it was a big jump up and I knew that I was likely to hit the same ‘only x% increase’ offer. I worked out what my minimum acceptable amount was, and if I was willing to walk away if not offered it (I was), and practised a couple of useful phrases in front of a mirror. They offered below my minimum and I very politely said that in that case I would need to decline the move – at which point they worked out a way to get me a better deal! In this case it was x% now and x% again in six months (confirmed in writing), which I was happy to accept.

      Good luck!

  16. Lance*

    What do you put on a resume for an internship where you, well… don’t do anything? (I’m not exaggerating; I’ve had one day of actual work for the past month and a half, and the rest has been me sitting there with vague half-assurances that they were looking for/would have something for me ‘soon’)

    The extent of what I have done boils down to ‘here’s a spreadsheet, here’s a database page, find what you can and fill in the reference point on the spreadsheet’. No critical thought, no ability to even use any spreadsheet tools needed. I already have a hard enough time finding any sort of work, so I need something, but I’m honestly not sure what to do here.

    1. Holly*

      Well… this is a big problem. Is the person in charge of your internship aware you’re not getting work to do? Are you getting credit through your school? If so, you need to tell your school about it. The answer really is – leave and get a better internship. If you’re not going to do that, you need to really hustle and make damn sure you’re getting work to do to put on your resume, even if it’s coming up with an idea yourself and pitching it. You can’t just make something up, you need to make your own opportunities.

    2. bdg*

      How much longer do you have in your internship? Any chance you have enough time to get some more experience there?

      If it were me, and I had a month there:

      1. Ask to be scribe for a project with weekly meetings (take down action items and make sure they get distributed to people in involved, track due dates, etc)

      2. Ask to observe literally anything

      3. Ask someone in a more hands-on job to shadow them (for me, that would be something like shadowing maintenance or testing as they do stuff – literally shadowing an electrician, even though it’s nothing to do with my job)

      4. Find any and all certifications and training and do as many/much as possible

      5. Own *something*. Even if you just create some on-boarding document like “what permissions you need to request for access” or “here are the people we work with and what they’re in charge of.” Literally anything that can be passed on to someone else.

      If you can’t do any of that, you’re going to need to take the spreadsheets or databases (or both) and figure out why they matter. It may be a stretch, but thinking critically about the work you did, even it’s not critical thinking work, shows that you understand that not all jobs are hard but they all contribute somehow.

      Good luck! I’ve had 6 internships, and some were a LOT better than others haha.

    3. Elle*

      “Learned …” “Assisted in …” “Participated in…” “Shadowed…”
      A big part of what people are looking for from interns is humility and eagerness to learn. Even if you don’t *do* anything, you can still learn a lot to apply at your next job. Start asking coworkers if you can tag along to meetings. Ask your boss if you can shadow him/her for the day. Volunteer yourself to be the note taker in meetings. Anything that will help you immerse yourself in the company culture and learn the lingo of your chosen field. Carry around a notebook, whenever a phrase is used in a meeting that you don’t understand, write it down and ask about it later.

      Bonus: coworkers will get sick of you shadowing them soon enough. And when you’re sitting next to them sometimes its easier for them to realize “oh! Lance could totally do X!”

  17. Bee's Knees*

    This week in a Small Town Newsroom

    Wakeen was talking about a TV show, and said you have to watch it to know what’s going on. What a shocking revelation.

    My counterpart, Violet, brought her grandson by to trick or treat on Wednesday. (She also brought candy for us to give him.) It went well. I tried to dye my hair pink. It did not go well.

    I may have to smash our fax machine. It broke, IT came to fix it, pulled it apart, and left it in pieces. I made them bring us a replacement. It was running out of ink, and Fergus was getting sixty pages that he already had, but we had to let come through, because there might be something new in there. There wasn’t. And every three pages or so, I had to take out the ink cartridge and shake it, and try again. Not fun.

    Fergus is bad, but honestly, Wakeen is giving him a run for his money. Fergus talks a lot, but Wakeen just… talks. Doesn’t matter if anyone is listening. I got to hear ALL about his wife’s dental issues, their car, what he thinks about some articles in the paper (which he read to us) and whatever crosses his mind.

    Our jobs have a lot to do with email. Which makes sense. Wakeen was waiting on someone in the school system to call him back. He emailed, then called again a few hours later. Which was hours after that day’s deadline. He was SHOCKED that no one had responded to his email right away. I told him I would be surprised if I heard back from someone right away, and he didn’t know what to make of that.

    1. LKW*

      I’m not defending Wakeen but I love Chopped and Property Brothers because you absolutely do not have to pay attention to that show to know what’s going on. There’s weird food. There’s an old house, maybe it has asbestos or bad plumbing. They make food. They fix the house. Someone uses the fryer or the ice cream machine and the other cook has to wait. They decorate the house in mid-century modern.

      You have now seen every episode of those two shows.

      1. Bee's Knees*

        I agree. He was talking about This is Us, I think, at the time. He couldn’t understand why if he missed an episode, he wasn’t caught up. He then explained to us the wonders of a DVR, and how it works.

      1. Bee's Knees*

        My natural hair color is too dark. It said blonde on the can, but mine is a dark blonde, and it didn’t show up, which irked me, because the smell from it sure did.

        1. CynicallySweet7*

          Yeah that happened when I tried to dye my -also dark blondes- hair pink. They really should be more specific and say light shades of blonde. You could try doing a lower concentrate bleach tho. B/c it’s already blonde you don’t have to leave it in as long or do as strong a dose. Don’t use lemon!! Had a friend who tried the lemon and sun trick and it made her hair brittle as all hell!

          1. Bee's Knees*

            It was just a temp spray I was trying for one day, so I’m not that upset about it, just irritated. I think my mother would have a heart attack if I dyed my hair pink.

  18. Zoe Karvounopsina*

    Drama at work: my Dragon Co-worker (hoards both knowledge and objects) is leaving. I can’t honestly say I’m surprised, but it wasn’t handled very well. The CEO’s email says she’s ‘done her best in every role she was placed in’, and apparently, she didn’t *know* about it until the meeting where she was told. (Though I’m not sure that’s on her manager. I could have told you it was coming at SOME point)

    I am generally supportive and optimistic, because I feel like she’s been our org’s missing stair for a while, if that missing stair was really well decorated and lovely to stand on, but you couldn’t take a step off it. (My metaphor is falling down here)

    3. LKW*

      Shall we collectively interpret the CEO’s message as “she did her best (and that wasn’t very good)” ? I’d like to do that. I’m going to do that.

      1. Zoe Karvounopsina*

        Yes, you definitely can, but as an announcement to the entire office that someone is leaving, it wasn’t great.

        (We absolutely all interpreted that way! I’m not sure we were meant to. It has led to Bad Feeling given that Dragon worked here for 18 years.)

    4. CupcakeCounter*

      We have hoarder here and I have to work directly with her quite often. I’ve called her out on it a couple of times (she trained me so if I’m not doing something right guess whose fault that is) and get lots of free stuff from my coworkers who are too afraid to say something. Luckily we have a new boss who also just doesn’t care that she is managements favorite and flat out told her that part of her job is to share information and cross-train people.
      I loved it.

  19. Nervous Accountant*

    OK, story time.

    I introduced this guy on last week’s thread as the one who fights me on everything. I don’t have a nickname for him. Let’s call him Kevin I guess.

    Short version–had a “talk” with Kevin about him yelling at me in the open office, and how he ignores my instructions on putting the phone on silent.

    Long version–

    Incident #1–the phone volume. This is on Monday.

    Conversation literally went like:

    Phone rings
    me: Hey Is there a reason you’re not turning it off. (at this point, this is the 2nd time in the day, and 6th time since Thursday I’ve asked him to keep it on silent).
    him: Ignore
    me: “Kevin”
    Yeah?
    me: Hey Is there a reason you’re not turning it off?
    him: Ignore
    me: ” Kevin ”
    him: Ignore
    me: Is there a reason you’re not turning it off?
    me: ” Kevin !”
    him: I heard you.
    I’ve asked you 5 times now to turn it off. This is not an option. I am not picky about phone use, if you need to get in touch with someone or make a phone call but I’ve asked you many times now to keep the phone on silent. We’re in an open office and the noise can be distracting.

    Second incident:

    Gave him a client when his calendar was open, gave him 40 minutes notice. (Before anyone questions me for doing this–I’m not going to argue about why this is right or wrong, but we all do this here, have done this, and will do this. We’re all expected to do last minute stuff from support to management level, no exceptions).

    He insists that no he can’t take it b/c I scheduled it over his lunch hour even though 1) it was not his lunch hour, 2) he was not with another client. I tried to use a soft, friendly approach. He goes to lunch, let’s the call time fly by. When i saw he wasn’t coming back in time, I had a support call him and tell him he’s running late; client ended up screaming at him, and I took the call and smoothed things over.

    I wanted to talk to him casually before escalating this in to a “talk” talk. And it went as well as baptizing a cat. He said he didn’t get what the issue is. I said what the issue was, and that when I’m telling him to do something, it’s not optional. It escalated to him slightly shouting that I was being unprofessional for bringing it up. People stared. When he raised his voice, I told him let’s go to a private room but he didn’t want to. I told him this is not how he speaks to anybody here and we’ll talk later.

    I talked ot him on Tuesday. Alone. and again…that didn’t go great lol. It was about 20 minutes, and it started off OK, breaking the ice etc. I had my talking points ready. Tried to frame it as, ultimately we’re trying to give a good experience to the client, and not calling an already pissed off client is not how to do it. I also mentioned the phone thing and he literally said nothing. Blank stare. He basically said he didn’t do anything wrong and said I shouldn’t have given it to him, it was all my fault and that I’m trying to cover my own ass for something I did wrong. He said he doesn’t care if the client was abusive to the support: “[support] is a big boy he can handle it.”

    I’ve kept my mgr in the loop about it, and we sent him a follow up email to recap on it. No answer, phone still goes off. Our boss says I handled it well. I also asked people in my life (not at wrk) and all said to get my mgr involved. I did involve him, but only for him to give me pointers and script ideas. He said that if he gets involved early on, it’ll just undermine me, and I need to get more comfortable with having these types of talks if I want to be in a higher role.

    I really struggled with letting him have the last word (is that even a thing at work????) or putting my foot down. I just really hope that the voice shaking and feeling like my blood sugar dropping stops once I get more practice on this.

    1. RickTq*

      If you have the authority start him on a PIP to Terminate. Kevin is a real piece of work and isn’t going to change.

        1. Boredatwork*

          – This is the problem. Kevin knows that you don’t have any power over him, his career, or his compensation. Your boss needs to put on his big boy pants, tell Kevin that based on your feedback, he’s on a PIP effective immediately.

          I mean without consequences, bad employees just keep running a muck.

          1. SouthernBelle*

            Allllll of this!!!

            Kevin will continue to be Kevin until there are consequences for his actions. And until you have the full backing of your manager to invoke consequences, there’s little to no chance that Kevin’s behavior is going to improve.

            He is a stain on your department. Shout it out.

            1. This is the story of a man named Neil Fisk*

              I have to agree. Kevin is going to continue to misbehave until someone with authority – your manager, for example – steps in.

              I don’t know your manager, but I suspect that he is attempting to ignore the issue. It may be up to you to get him to Man Up and show Kevin the Consequences.

              Final thought: is Kevin annoying any other people at the office?

              1. Nervous Accountant*

                No he’s not ignoring it or letting it slide.

                Part of the bigger picture—he needs me to be more comfortable taking on feedback convos

                1. tink*

                  If you don’t have authority to do anything (except talk to the mgr) when you have these feedback convos, then you’re probably not really going to get through to anyone with the feedback, imo? You’re basically between a rock and a hard place being expected to give feedback without the ability to apply discipline or rewards as a follow-up.

                2. Noobtastic*

                  So, tell him, you did the feedback thing, and the feedback YOU got from this is that 1) Kevin has the right to treat anyone he wants like trash, and 2) the boss has Kevin’s back, not yours.

                  You DID the feedback. Now the boss needs to do HIS job. IF he really wants to delegate this sort of thing to you, then he needs to delegate some authority to deal with it, as well. You need authority and power to discipline and reward, or “feedback” will accomplish nothing.

                  And this “continue to document” is rubbish. Kevin has already behaved in a way that is termination-worthy. By “continuing to document,” they are just telling you, and all the other co-workers, that the line is waaaaaaay farther way than it ought to be, and that everyone can behave horribly, and be free from consequences, just as long as someone is writing it down, for that elusive future.

          2. Kittymommy*

            Way late to the game, but all of this. Kev needs to go. Hard enough he’ll bounce. And whoever can do it should have done it yesterday.

        2. Jessi*

          Tell your manager that this isn’t the sort of person you would ever hire and he needs to go on a PIP. When someone hiring up the chain says ‘Put your phone on silent’ the answer is ‘sure’ or ‘Sorry must have forgotten, I’ll do it now”.

          Your manager is crap – making you be responsible but not giving you enough power to fire this moron

        3. Noobtastic*

          Do you have authority to ask your manager to put him on a PIP?

          I hate being in a position of responsibility without authority. If you don’t at LEAST have the back-up of your own management, then you have nothing at all, but a good reason to take your talents elsewhere.

          He yelled at you, in public, and ignored you, in public, and undermined you, in public, and if there are no consequences to him, then everyone else who saw it will start thinking it’s OK to treat you that way, too. And that? That’s not YOUR fault. That is your MANAGER’S fault, for not having your back.

          Request a PIP, ASAP.

    2. Four lights*

      It sound like you’re doing okay trying to talk to him (except I think you should have “talk” talked to him earlier), but the fact is he’s not even pretending to agree to what you want. This is massive insubordination. I think this should be escalated.

      I also wouldn’t feel too bad about managing this. Most people will attempt to improve or do what their manager says, and this guy is being ridiculous.

    3. Temperance*

      Does your org have a reprimand structure? If so, you need to reprimand Kevin for insubordination. Period. If he wants to shout at you, respond loudly speaking and reiterating your point. Don’t back down. I think that will undermine your authority, especially if you’re female. Suggesting that you speak in private after he publicly yelled at you isn’t a good look.

      Don’t frame it as “we’re trying to give a good experience to the client”, frame it as “you purposely ignored a client, took lunch before your scheduled time, and ignored a direct order from your supervisor”.

      1. Ali G*

        Agreed. He’s had no repercussions for his completely egregious behavior, so he’s not going to change, unless he is reprimanded.
        Nervous Accountant, you do not need to be nice to this jerk. He’s undermining you at every turn and just plain ignoring you, as his manager. He needs to know that if he continues to ignore your request and not do his job, he’s out on his butt.

        1. Nervous Accountant*

          I don’t think I am being nice anymore. But I also do not want to change my core personality to appease ridiculous people.

          His phone still goes off, but I have better things to do than to babysit a goddamn adult.

          1. Close Bracket*

            The suggestion is to formally reprimand him, not appease him. Formal reprimanding def needs to be part of your skill set, even if it’s not part of your core personality.

      2. Nervous Accountant*

        My manager is the one who wanted to frame it this way, so that’s why I said what I said. I’ll keep that script in mind though for the future.

        The way it works here (and i imagine most places) is that there’s a conversation (which is a verbal warning), plus email about it to reiterate everything. If person doesn’t improve, they will be formally written up and eventually let go.

        I honestly don’t expect the guy to change, I’m just keeping track of everything as I’ve been advised to do.

        1. Venus*

          In our workplace there are 6 steps, although if someone was this bad it wouldn’t take too long to get through them (and each, I believe, involves a meeting in person and then email / written documentation):
          1. oral reprimand
          2. written reprimand
          3. suspension
          4. financial penalty
          5. demotion
          6. termination or discharge
          It seems like a lot, but sometimes people do change when penalties are imposed.

          And agreed with your manager – document everything!

        2. Ann O.*

          So was the conversation you had the first part of the process leading to termination? Because if so, it seems like everything is on track and you and your manager are both doing everything you need to do. And I can’t wait to read the update when you get to say that Kevin is fired!

        3. only acting normal*

          If the conversation is a verbal warning, you need to say those exact words: “This is your verbal warning.” Plus maybe “If Y happens again next step is X.”
          Because Kevin doesn’t seem to believe it is an actual step in an official process of reprimand (vs an everyday reprimand), probably because he perceives you as having responsibility but no authority.

        4. ..Kat..*

          It seems to me that the next step is a formal write up. But, you said that your boss won’t let you do that yet. Why not? What will it take to get to that step? It seems like your boss won’t back you up for a write up and then dismissal. Whether purposely or not, your boss is jerking you around.

      3. Noobtastic*

        ““you purposely ignored a client, took lunch before your scheduled time, and ignored a direct order from your supervisor” and in so doing, gave a BAD experience to the client. You purposely hurt our client, and our reputation with the client, who will surely talk to others.”

        You tried playing nice. Now play hard-ball. Never take him in private. Sure, use your inside voice, but if HE escalates, then HE is the one bringing the awkward, not you. Give it back to him on a platter, as you stand your ground.

    4. LCL*

      I just want to say I am delighted to read that you have got more confidence and are better able to stand up for yourself.

      1. LKW*

        Yes. I love the reuse of the phrase “This is not optional”

        But yeah – your manager needs to deal with this. The phone thing is annoying as fuck and he’s behaving like a toddler because he knows it irks you. If you really want to drive a point -have everyone turn their phones on full volume with different tones for email, phone, etc and let them all go off all day. But I fully admit it’s seriously childish.

        As for the client – THAT is where you can lay out the impact of his nonsensical behavior. If the expectation is that a person receives information and is expected to act upon it within a certain amount of time, and he refused on “principle” and the end result was 1) pissed of client and 2) more effort on the part of your company to soothe the client than would have been needed to simply resolve the issue – that is $$. It’s reputation. It’s loss of income if the client leaves. That your manager can dig into.

      2. Nervous Accountant*

        Thank you LCL! It’s like a switch went off, I wrote in another post below that I’m not going to be a common denominator in this crap sandwich. It doesn’t reflect badly on me if someone is acting like a jackass despite warnings. And this guy i s a huge jackass.

    5. Kathenus*

      I think the talks are all great, you’re dealing with things quickly in the moment, and as needed afterwards with set talking points. Now it needs to be backed up with consequences. You’ve seen that he isn’t going to just change because you asked him to. He needs an incentive. And without consequences for his actions he’s going to assume the talk is meaningless and he can just ignore it. You’re on the right path, keep going and hold him accountable. Good luck!

      1. Easily Amused*

        Agreed. You used the words “it’s not optional” and yet, he still very much sees your request as optional.

    6. pony tailed wonder*

      Have you had him sign something that says that he has been warned about these things multiple times and does that document list a consequence that you can follow through on?

      1. Nervous Accountant*

        We sent an email to follow up, but of course he ignored it and did not acknowledge it. My mgr was cc’d on it, so he knows that he knows what’s going on. The document to sign off on will be a written warning, which will happen if any of this continues (and I’m positive it will).

        Honestly, even if he DID have a point about the client or what happened, teh way he went about it was wrong and in my eyes has destroyed any credibility (I have to keep reminding myself that yes, I am allowed to be on that side of the equation now).

    7. Nervous Accountant*

      Thanks for the input all. I post theiugh my phone and it’s easier to do one big comment now than multiple ones so hopefully this addresses everything, apologies if not.

      I don’t think that there are no consequences, they’re not immediate but there are consequences.

      His phone goes off but I’m not about to touch someone’s property, nor am I a babysitter where I’m constantly yelling to turn off his phone. so I don’t know what else *I* can do to enforce this, aside from making sure it’s documented, as I was advised to do.

      I’m 99.9999% this is not a gender thing, as he speaks to my (male) mgr this way as well; in fact he’s arguing with him about sick days vs PTO.

      As much as I hate his attitude that’s not enough to get someone immediately fired here. It’ll take time. Just bc I had the bad luck of working at places with immediate firing, does not mean that this company will do the same.

      1. Venus*

        You can’t touch the phone, but is there something to be put over it to muffle the noise slightly? (paper towels?) I know that isn’t very helpful as a suggestion, but that would be reaaaaally irritating me

      2. ThankYouRoman*

        I’m oddly relieved he’s just a scumbag and not just a sexist.

        That aside, I’m glad you’re doing better communicating through this tantrums. You’re doing it all right. Keep documenting and we shall do a “Kevin was Fired Today” dance when that axe falls on this dick one day.

        1. Nervous Accountant*

          I mean I don’t like him but I don’t want an axe to fall on his dick, that’s too harsh.. :-) lol

          The good thing about this place… toxic people don’t last here.

          1. ThankYouRoman*

            You’re far better than I am. I wanna swing the axe at his dick myself ;)

            Thank goodness the turds flush eventually!!!

    8. WellRed*

      I know you said you don’t having firing authority, but can you start managing him out? I mean, can you say something like, “I’m not sure you’re a good fit for this role.”

    9. chi chan*

      Try short sentences to describe what he is doing. He has called you unprofessional. Have you said ignoring people, shouting and making clients wait is unprofessional and he has been doing that for 3 days??? now. “Stop ignoring me. ” “Stop antagonizing clients.” “Why are you shouting? ” “Just do XYZ.”
      On the phone, maybe compromise on low volume.

    10. Not So NewReader*

      He sounds like he thinks he is in kindergarten.

      I dunno. I think I would let him see me making documentation.

      “I have asked you to turn your phone off, that has not happened. Why?”
      He stares at you and says nothing.
      So then you read out loud as you write. “I asked Kevin why he has not turned his phone off after being asked numerous times. He stared at me and failed to answer my question. Kevin sometimes chooses not to speak when spoken to directly by his supervisor. Kevin has difficulty accepting supervision.”

      And then you remind him that your notes will become a part of his permanent work record at your company.

      This whole thing is happening because of your boss not giving you the back up you need. Some people actually need to have a big boss tell them, “This is your boss and you need to do as she says. Failure to do so will end in dismissal.” Kevin is one of those people. Your boss fell down on the job again.

      Your work place is something else. It’s really something else. I hope you are able to get out of there soon.

        1. Nervous Accountant*

          He has at least 10 years of experience, he had good references. For the most part, he is good with clients

          1. only acting normal*

            So…
            He has at least 10 years experience… of being a dick.
            He had good references… from people relieved to be rid of him because he’s a dick.
            *Some* of the time he’s a dick with clients.
            ;-)

      2. Nervous Accountant*

        My mgr does have my back actually and he’s not neglecting this guy. We rarely terminate anyone on the spot.

        It’s in part of a bigger context—He wants me to be comfortable giving feedback and dealing with staff performance issues since I want to move up higher (if not here then elsewhere).

        1. XO baby*

          But he won’t give you the authority necessary to back up those conversations and deal with those issues. So it’s largely meaningless, and it’s not effective in dealing with this guy. He knows you don’t have any real authority, so he’s not bothered.

          This is poor management all around.

        2. Noobtastic*

          How is it even possible to be comfortable giving feedback if you have neither tools, nor authority to use them, to make that feedback meaningful? Discipline and rewards are what make feedback meaningful.

          Your boss has put you in the Uncomfortable situation of making you try to do a job without the tools to do it. You’re trying to carve a marble statue with your bare hands, and he wants you to “feel comfortable” doing it, before he’ll give you a chisel?!

    11. Girl friday*

      I was just talking to my daughter about this today! The phone thing is a big deal. You have to have compliance on the little things, or you have a serious respect issue! This guy is insubordinate.

      1. Noobtastic*

        I’d confiscate the phone until the end fo the day. Turn it in to Security.

        If he’s going to act like a school child, he gets treated like a schoolchild. And if you don’t want to touch his property, then don’t touch it. Call Security, and have THEM take the phone away until the end of the day.

  20. Wannabe Disney Princess*

    Had a job interview last Friday. Got a phone call on Wednesday that they want to move forward with me. So, now, I’m (not at all) patiently waiting for the background check to finish.

      1. Wannabe Disney Princess*

        The HR rep on the phone said she would be working on her end with the compensation team to come up with a number. So, as long as there’s nothing I don’t know about in my background check that I don’t know about, it should turn out alright. (I HOPE.)

          1. Wannabe Disney Princess*

            I have! I let it wane for a while because there’s only so much rejection, roadblocks, etc. that I could take before it became demoralizing. So when I felt myself feeling negative, I’d just pause. Refocus elsewhere. Then start back up. Rinse and repeat.

            This place is actually a vendor of ours, so I knew they’d at least recognize the company name. Figured it couldn’t hurt!

  21. Motivating the unmotivated*

    How do you motivate people who are unreliable, don’t want to work, hate their jobs and are only in their industry because the money is good and they don’t have to put forth much effort? There’s little to no accountability and firing them isn’t an option. Even if they were to be fired from Company ABC, they can easily turn around and be hired for Company XYZ.

      1. Motivating the unmotivated*

        We have tried that in the past, but people can lie and make up the fact that they hit their targets, or they don’t care about the bonus because they think the target isn’t realistic.

      1. Motivating the unmotivated*

        I really appreciate you responding! To give you a clearer picture, a lot of the work in this industry is short-term contract work with no guarantee of continued employment once the assignment ends, but everyone who works in the industry is made aware of this fact before they even apply for the role. I think this leads to the unreliable, unmotivated workers.

        Sometimes they are fired, but they can turn around and do the same thing to another company and I find that multiple companies that I have worked for have hired plenty of employees like this. We are contractors and we are free to work for whatever agency we wish to.

        To give you an idea, some of the problems are people simply not showing up to shifts they had agreed to work with no notice to anyone, showing up in incorrect attire (some jobs require a specific uniform), showing up late consistently (in excess of 15 mins), calling out with only a few hours before their shift is supposed to start, leaving the job site for extended “bathroom breaks” when the rest of the team is working hard, etc. While I love what I do, I feel that it seems unfair that someone who is also so lazy gets paid the full day rate that I get paid and they don’t do as much work.

        1. zora*

          Yeah, the structure is the problem here.
          People who are good and are motivated, are going to self-select for positions that have security and long-term growth of some kind. Short term contract roles are going to be left with only the unmotivated, as a rule.

          If your company/industry doesn’t or isn’t able to change it’s business model to have actual secure positions that take care of people as more than a paycheck, then this is the price of admission.

          In that case, I think the only solution is to plan for the fact that people will be flakes and not work hard. By staffing up so you have padding for those who no-show, by finding other ways to reward the good workers, and just accept that you will always have a certain percentage of under-performers.

    3. samiratou*

      Do you work at ABC? Then fire them. At least then they’ll be XYZ’s problem.

      I don’t think there’s a way to motivate people who really don’t want to be motivated.

      1. Motivating the unmotivated*

        Although some of these unmotivated people are at ABC and higher ups at ABC have fired them, while they worked for ABC, they have caused damage to our client. I was supposed to have Sunday off last week but instead had to drive to two client locations (about 20 miles from my home one way) to “smooth things over.” These client locations were not mine to begin with. I have a client location that is much closer to my home (10 miles one way)

        While I was compensated to deal with these two client locations last week and was given the choice whether or not to do it, I chose to do it because I was the only one in town that ABC company could rely on and I truly like the higher ups at ABC. However,on Saturday, I worked from 10AM – 1AM and was looking forward to having Sunday off.

        1. samiratou*

          Ah, that sucks. I’m sorry. Now that they’re gone, are things likely to get better, or are there more of them? Does your position allow you to be involved in hiring at all? Can you help keep your company from bringing in the unmotivated to begin with? It doesn’t sound, to me, like your position allows much for motivating existing employees, but it sounds like your company is trying to deal with the situation as well as they can, which isn’t nothing. If you can help spot the unmotivated before they become your problem, that’s probably the best you can do.

          1. Motivating the unmotivated*

            The justification for last week was “we are having a hard time finding someone to visit Not My Client Location 2 and Not My Client Location 3 but we must get these client visits done.”

            I saw that they posted another ad to hire someone so hopefully I will not be asked to cover any longer. Honestly, I would have been fine with covering these two locations if they were in fact my responsibility in the first place. However,

            1 – Client visits at my assigned location are at the same time as these 2 “not mine” locations. The meeting times cannot be changed.
            2 – I am usually given very little notice of these additional responsibilities. I was asked Saturday late afternoon to handle these locations at noon on Sunday.

            1. valentine*

              You said you can say no, so, say no. Draw a line with yourself and stick to it for a few months, then reassess. You can’t fix the industry or the workers, but you can preserve your weekends and well-being.

      2. WellRed*

        yeah, i don’t understand the logic of not firing someone just because they might get hired elsewhere.

        1. Motivating the unmotivated*

          Sorry if this was unclear! They aren’t afraid of firing someone just because they will get hired elsewhere.

          What happens is:
          – Lazy Worker is hired.
          – Lazy Worker acts lazy and causes damages to Company ABC.
          – Company ABC fires them from the project.
          – Lazy Worker then gets another job at Company XYZ.
          – I also work for Company XYZ and have to deal with “picking up the slack” for Lazy Worker. There are also many, many Lazy Workers and most of the companies in the industry that I work for have hired a Lazy Worker or two.
          – Because I am Keep My Commitments Employee, I am often being asked to smooth things over for both companies. It is compensated, but I often have other obligations during times where they ask me to do damage control.

          I am also tired of how much damage control needs to be done. I have been in this industry for 9 years and this is an ongoing issue with no changes in sight. I am very annoyed at this point and hoping to offer suggestions to managers at ABC or XYZ/future employers so that this stops happening. Hence, my posting.

          1. nonymous*

            Presumably if Company ABC fires them either there’s record of the termination or the company that places contractors would be told to step up their game due to poor quality matches.

            From XYZ’s perspective, it may be that what they need to do is simply require a positive (or eligible for rehire status) for new contractors.

            Having said that, it’s normal for contractors to have to set aside 30%+ of their gross pay to cover taxes and bennies that the employer’s responsibility for staff and charge a premium for dealing with the logistics of contract work. So if you and the contractor both have an hourly rate of $D, I would expect the contractor to be working at a level of a staff being paid <70% * $D but assigned the same duties. Which is to say, very low expectations of performance in comparison to staff at the same rate.

          2. Not So NewReader*

            Why not give both companies a list of people who have failed to live up to standards?

            Nothing will change in your area until you change what you are doing. The companies can keep dragging you out at all hours of the day and night to smooth things over, so they can keep hiring whatever and you will fix it.

            You can set boundaries, such as you will only work x hours per week and on any given day you will only be available for y hours. Until you draw your lines no one else will either. It’s a management problem and it’s really not up to you to fix it.

            1. Motivating the unmotivated*

              Such lists exist already but people keep slipping through the cracks or new bad apples apply and get the gig. Some companies don’t use those lists.

              I definitely decline opportunities that don’t suit my schedule and they find someone else to do “damage control” The issue with last week was that those meetings had to take place in October and I’m the only reliable one with the company equipment to do the client visit.

          3. Autumnheart*

            I think you need to recognize that in this scenario, you’re collateral damage and not a responsible party.

            If you have obligations during times when they ask you to do damage control, then say so. “I’m sorry, but I can’t take care of that because I’m out of town doing whatever.” Or don’t pick up the phone.

            If any of these companies wants to clean up their ratio of Lazy Workers to Keep My Commitments employees, then they should be the ones to feel the pain. It’s not your job to fix their issues with their hiring requirements. If you can frame it in your own mind as, “I’m being paid more because there are so many crap employees in this industry,” that might help, but otherwise you are allowed to push back and be unavailable some times. It shouldn’t be expected that you put in 7-day weeks because they don’t want to enforce more stringent hiring standards.

            1. Motivating the unmotivated*

              These companies definitely feel the pain – they’ve lost clients due to Lazy Workers. There’s one specific large contract in this area (staffing 150+ people for one night) and it’s been given to a new company every year for the last 4 years.

              This indicates to me that the company awarding this contract hasn’t been happy with Company ABC or Company XYZ or any of the other two companies they’ve used. I can guarantee you it’s due in part to unreliable staff.

    4. Dragoning*

      Does it matter if you motivate them? If you can fire them, they’re not your problem anymore. They might be hired by another company easily, but so what? Your problem is solved. Let the other company figure it out.

      1. Darren*

        I think the problem is this unmotivated person is actually ALSO a contractor for multiple companies and has to fill in the gaps when these unreliable people fail to show up. So firing doesn’t help if they still later end up working on a job for another company down the line when he is also working for them.

        1. Motivating the unmotivated*

          That’s exactly what happens. I’ve been in this industry for 9 years and it hasn’t changed a bit.

    5. ThankYouRoman*

      I have dealt with these types.

      Wash your hands of them. You’re wasting your energy and emotions.

      You know how you shouldn’t marry someone thinking “they can change!”, you’re in that exact boat right now. You cannot fix these people, they’re broken and should be purged.

    6. Quandong*

      This seems to be a problem with the system, if there’s little/no accountability & firing people is not an option.

      I suggest you stop wasting energy and effort trying to motivate these people. It sounds like you can’t get the outcome you want (i.e. that people become motivated to change their attitude and behaviour) so stop trying to do something that’s impossible.

      Do you have any way to effect systemic change instead? What areas can you apply your energy to where you’ll actually get the satisfaction of achieving something? Can you start to care less about these unmotivated people?

      1. Motivating the unmotivated*

        I think these are good questions that you posed and they definitely give me more to think about. I will definitely keep trying to rise above it or at least be happy that I make more $ off their laziness when I get asked to cover their shifts and I actually am free. :)

        In terms of changing things, a few years ago, I was asked to consider applying managing a team of these people. Because I knew that their personalities were like this, I chose to decline those opportunities. I honestly know very few managers in this industry who have a good team. The reason for one manager having a good team (no call outs or cancellations in 4 years) is that Company PQR’s pay scale is highly competitive in terms of hourly rate. They are willing to reimburse for mileage even if it’s a short trip. They pay for parking in downtown areas. Almost no other company in our industry does this off the bat and a lot of people in this industry have a sense of entitlement. They feel that the companies should pay for their parking. Meanwhile, I am glad when it is offered and take into account parking costs when selecting jobs.

    7. Noobtastic*

      You could threaten to hire that painfully cheerful former kindergarten teacher from that letter last month. The one who brought the “gratitude cards” and the face masks, and all that stuff every darn day. Read that letter to them, and say, “You don’t really want me to hire her, do you? Then buck up!”

      Alternately, do the elementary school sticker routine. Because I like stickers.

  22. Detective Amy Santiago*

    Today I learned that we have ‘red phones’ in various locations around our office that are to be used in case of an emergency (like an active shooter situation).

    We also have a very comprehensive emergency alert system. When things happened last Saturday, I got text messages and voicemails on my cell phone plus emails in my work email inbox.

    I hate that we’ve reached the point as a society where we need this, but I’m glad my company is on top of things.

    1. LKW*

      Agreed. I had to explain to a group of clients from various countries why the client site had stickers of handguns with the red circle with the slash. State law said that you had to put those up to notify people who might have concealed carry permits that they had to leave their guns in their cars or at home.

      Now I have to take active shooter training at every client site. So awful. Hide under desk. Put phones on silent as soon as possible. Keep low.

      1. Detective Amy Santiago*

        Yeah, we have yearly mandatory training modules we have to complete and one of them is on various emergency situations.

        Let me tell you, even sitting at home in my bedroom, I was kind of freaked out when I got the ‘BRONZE ALERT’ text message even though it wasn’t at my regular work location.

      2. Lora*

        See, our active shooter training taught us the exact opposite – being under your desk basically lets you patiently wait to be shot, so try to run for an emergency exit if you can, but if you can’t then barricade yourself in a room, and if you can’t do that then whack the shooter as hard as you can with something heavy because they’re looking for easy targets who sit still. They made a big thing out of how the teachers at Columbine told the kids to hide under the desks not 20 feet from an emergency exit, and as a result those kids got shot when they could have run out the emergency exit.

        We also learned that being shot doesn’t actually hurt as much as you think it will, because you go into shock very quickly. That wasn’t exactly comforting.

        It’s all depressing as heck.

        1. ThankYouRoman*

          Yeah…watch “I Survived” on Lifetime, everyone! They talk about not feeling pain until help arrives usually. It’s how you have the ability to survive without a fatal shot

          Virgina Tech shooter methodically shot people who were trapped in the rooms. They’re not there just spraying bullets overhead.

          Stay low and run.

    3. Art3mis*

      At my old company everyone was issued emergency kits. Bottle of water, flashlight, air mask, etc. Apparently they had offices in/near the WTC and decided to issue them to everyone after that.

        1. Noobtastic*

          Scary/sad, and yet, I’d rather work at a place that took those precautions than a place that did not.

          I’m of the Boy Scout persuasion: Plan for the worst and hope for the best.

    4. Blinx*

      We only have soft phones now (through our computers), which are not to be used for 911 or security. I like the red phone idea! Yes, disaster or shooter training is one of those necessary evils. We watched that Run, Hide, Fight video (it’s on YouTube). Full of common sense, but traumatic just to watch! The next year I skipped the video and just took the quiz.

      1. Yay commenting on AAM!*

        We did run-hide-fight at the last place I worked. The video is very corny, but it’s pretty sensible.

        It was actually needed at my last work, in a different way. We were a community organization that offered youth, teen, and family programming, and we had locations in neighborhoods that had significant gang activity, and that has a habit of boiling over in unexpected places, like parking lots and basketball games.

    5. dawbs*

      FWIW, I think it did exist.
      It’s just taken seriously now.

      ex: 30+ years ago, I know someone who was a teacher at a rural middle school. He was warned that the dad/stepdad/something of some students had recently gotten out of prison and was considered a high risk to try to kidnap the kids. SO keep an eye out.
      His classroom was right next to the back door of the building. He asked that the door be locked during the day, so nobody (read, scary dude) could sneak in. And for a working phone/panic button in his room.
      He was told “he’s a little guy. You’re bigger than he is”. When he said little guys carry big guns, there was no response.

      15? 20? years ago, when he retired, he was still lobbying for that damn door to be locked.

      I’ve been to that school recently. They now lock the back doors at least.

  23. anon team manager*

    There is an employee in this department who works on a different team than the one I manage. She has the same name as one of my reports (example: Dawn/Don, Erin/Aaron). There was an incident where she committed a major faux pas that cost the company money and clients. The manager of the department (my boss) got mixed up and fired my report instead of her. I was in a meeting when my report was escorted out of the building. The mistake was realized the next day but now my report refuses to come back. He was offered his job back, then a raise, then extra perks like more PTO and even a bump in title but he said no. He is still unemployed and he has moved back in with his father from what I know. I called him to try to convince him to come back but he just swore at me and hung up. He was by far the most productive person in the department. My team is worse off now and going into our busy season we are screwed without him. Is there anything I can do to convince him to come back? My boss did apologize, as did my grand-boss and even people above him. But he won’t budge and refuses to even talk to us. Does anyone have any ideas how I can rectify this? Thanks in advance to anyone who read my post. Happy Friday!

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I don’t blame your employee, tbh. It sounds like the firing was a hare trigger response and I wouldn’t trust my position in a company like that.

      1. Birch*

        Yeah, this is not really a forgivable mistake. And it took a whole day to be realized?! I can only imagine how that poor guy feels having been escorted out of the building! This is a real fear/nightmare for a lot of people, to be blamed and punished for something you didn’t do while nobody will tell you what you’re being punished for. And the fact that he swore at you over the phone when you called to apologize is really telling. If this happened to me and I liked and trusted my team and manager, I still wouldn’t come back but I would be kinder to the person on the phone who didn’t cause the situation. It sounds like he already didn’t trust you to have his back.

    2. Zoe Karvounopsina*

      I…really don’t think you can. He got fired *by mistake*. And he wasn’t even the same gender as the person who screwed up!

    3. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I wouldn’t come back either. I realize you were in a meeting when your report was escorted out, but did no one give you a heads-up? This is beyond a faux pas, this is a humiliating mistake (as was what the other person did; that’s no “faux pas”, that sounds like a major error. I don’t think you can rectify it. If I were in his position, the only thing that would go a bit towards making it better would be a decently sized severance check and a few months of health insurance in addition to a great reference.

    4. Four lights*

      It sounds like you guys tried the best you could.

      You could ask him if there’s anything he wants from you. You could try back in a month after things have cooled off. I’d be pretty pissed too if my company mistakenly fired me instead of someone who has a different name from me and works on a different team. Also, presumably your boss explained why he was being fired, at which point your employee probably said, what are you talking about, I had nothing to do with that, and then he was still escorted from the building. He’s probably wondering if anyone there ever cared about him at all, or if he was just another cog, easily mistaken for someone else.

    5. Well, that was awkward*

      While I don’t think that he handled it well whatsoever by swearing and hanging up the phone on you, it seems like he is choosing to burn the bridge with your company, even after people have apologized for the mistake. I would start the hiring process ASAP.

      1. Liane*

        “…he is choosing to burn the bridge with your company…”
        The bridge was already burnt by the company, IMO. Report just said, “Nope!” when anon team manager, the higher ups, and HR* asked him to help put up a new bridge. And I don’t blame him in the least bit.
        Yes, anon team manager, I believe you that you had nothing to do with ANY of this mess and didn’t even know about it until after the firing. Unfortunately, Report may well think you were involved.

        If I were you, I would start my own job search. Do you really want to work at a place where your bosses and HR* make such egregious errors?

        *assuming HR was involved

    6. Lettuce Mutton Tomato*

      Oh wow! Yeah, that’s such a crappy thing for your company to do that I don’t blame him for his reaction. I don’t think I’d want to work for a company again where those kinds of “mistakes” happen. I’d constantly be on edge wondering when the next error will affect me. Better off moving on to greener pastures.

    7. Anon From Here*

      I think it’s pretty darn reasonable not to honor any “take backsies” on getting fired on a mistake that wasn’t fully comprehended for 24-odd hours.

    8. Holly*

      I feel like there’s some missing details here… like, by any chance, did he say “I don’t understand why I’m being fired” or “I did not do that, that wasn’t me” and get any sort of rebuke? What was the explanation? I feel like it’s odd that he be informed he was being fired, escorted out of the building, without him being like “wait, what is going on here??” especially if he’s a high performer. I have a feeling something inappropriate would have transpired at that level that might explain the response even more.

      1. Detective Amy Santiago*

        This is a good point. If someone escorted me out, I would damn well ask why and if they didn’t offer an explanation or listen to what he had to say, that seems indicative of some serious issues.

        1. Holly*

          Yes… like I imagine he raised the issue, and the person responsible for effectuating this firing had some sort of out of the norm or abusive response (you know what you did, shut up etc). Otherwise, wouldn’t it have been resolved right then?

        2. Tilly*

          You don’t know what you would do in someone else’s shoes. Have you never heard of a freeze response?

          1. Holly*

            Detective Amy Santiago wasn’t criticizing anyone’s response – we don’t know what the response was.

    9. Decima Dewey*

      Sounds like your company needs an addition to their HR procedures: Make sure the employee you’re disciplining or firing is the person who deserves to be disciplined or fired.

      One large library in my system has three people named Stacy. I shudder to think what could happen if someone in HR got the Stacys mixed up.

    10. samiratou*

      The best thing you can do is let him know you’ll be a good reference for his next employer.

      I mean, seriously. Your company took a bad mistake on the part of the first employee and compounded it 100x by firing the wrong person. I mean, seriously? Nobody in HR or your boss or anyone took a look at his personnel file and noticed that he wasn’t even on the team of the person who screwed up?

      This does not sound like a functional workplace. Sorry.

      1. samiratou*

        I should add, I have a person at my part time retail job who has a similarly unusual name to mine, just one letter off. And she sucks. I worry that samiralou’s call-ins and slacking off will be attributed to me, because people confuse us all the time. So, yeah, my sympathies are entirely with the fired guy, as your employer should KNOW WHO YOU ARE before making significant decisions like this.

        1. Noobtastic*

          Stuff like this is why I like employee numbers. They are not just making you a numbered cog in a machine, but are giving you an absolutely individual identification, so there is NO possibility of being fired by mistake because you share a FIRST name (did the not even bother checking the last name?! Good grief!) with a perp.

          I understand that some mistakes are so egregious that they deserve immediate dismissal, but you fire the person by the full name and employee number, not “Erin/Aaron” the “Something to do with teapots department.”

          I don’t blame this guy, at all. And if he argued or froze or flopped, he was most likely treated quite badly during the firing, let alone just being fired, in itself. I can completely see the escorts telling him to shut up, and/or calling him names, and possibly bruising him in the process, if he resisted at all.

          And did anyone make sure that all his personal effects were returned to him? Please tell me you’re not “holding his stuff hostage,” to encourage him to return?

          You’re not to blame for this, of course, since you were not actively involved, but you’re sure in a rock/hard place position, here. Frankly, I wouldn’t trust my own employment in this company. Massive red flag, here. And if you’re getting ready for the busy time, there are likely to be more bad things happen before they do the complete revamp they need to ensure this never happens again.

    11. MissDisplaced*

      Wow! Your boss and company is horrible. If I were that employee there is like NO WAY I would come back either, mistake or not. In all honesty, your manager should be fired over making such a snap judgement call without investigating.

        2. Knitty Gritty*

          I had that happen at my last company. My direct report was let go during a “layoff” – 5 days before Christmas but that’s another story – and I was not aware of what was going to happen at all. It has horrible and she very much blamed me for it. I didn’t have any knowledge of what was going to happen, but I understand her being upset.

    12. Lumen*

      I would not return to a company that made this egregious of an error. I don’t think I would ever feel comfortable there again, or able to respect the people who let such a mistake happen. Because that’s not about pay or perks, it’s something broader and yet more fundamental.

      The fact that he swore at you and hung up is… sure, unprofessional, but I think it’s also kind of understandable. But regardless, it’s also a very, very strong NO. That’s a loud and clear “Leave me the #$%& alone”. He wants nothing to do with you and your company. And whether you agree with his stance or understand it or think he’s right or not, there is nothing you can do to change that. So all you can (or should) do at this point is take the L and let him go. Don’t escalate this any further, because whatever your intentions are, it’s going to feel like harassment to him.

      What are you doing internally to address this incredibly bad mistake? What is your boss doing? Your grand-boss? What changes are being made to prevent this from ever happening again? Are YOU sure you want to stay in a company that screwed up this badly?

    13. LKW*

      I don’t think you can. This guy was humiliated because the boss didn’t take 10 minutes to make sure they were dealing with the right person. I mean, Erin/Aaron sound the same but I’m sure they don’t look the same.
      That no one who should have been consulted, like you who could have rectified the issue before it was an issue, was involved is just egregious.

      That your boss didn’t know the name of your most productive team member is where you really missed saving this. My boss regularly asks “Hows so and so doing” to check in . I try to make opportunities for my stars to get face time with leadership so they get the recognition they deserve.

      1. Cat Fan*

        Yes, the employee who made the mistake is on a different team then Anon’s. How does the higher up boss not know who is on what team?

    14. Undine*

      Being fired out of the blue is pretty traumatic. It’s a little like, “Hey, I beat up the wrong person, no hard feelings, right?” Wrong.

      What you can do is tell them you’re happy to be a reference. Also see if your company can give him a severance package of some kind. The guy is out of work through no fault of his own, and seeing actual money from you would speak way louder than words.

    15. Red5*

      I think the only thing you can do now is find out what your boss intends to do to support you and your team now that s/he made the colossal mistake of firing your most productive person, as you go into your busy season.

      Sheesh!

    16. Nita*

      Why would he want to work for a company where the boss cannot tell apart two employees (of different genders, to boot) in a serious situation like that? It’s not like someone accidentally dropped off Dawn’s coffee at Don’s desk. He was thrown out of the building without a second thought or any effort to find out why he made mistake xyz (at which point it would have become clear that he’s not the one who made the mistake).

      Also, I don’t know what Dawn did, but firing someone on the spot over a mistake might not be great management. Maybe what she did really was that bad… but given the other red flags here, wouldn’t be surprised if this is the sort of mistake that would be treated as a learning opportunity in other workplaces.

      Incidentally, is Dawn still employed?

      Really, all you can do is accept that he has very good reasons not to want to touch his former workplace with a ten-foot pole, and be a good reference if he ask.

    17. CatCat*

      Stop contacting him. He clearly does not want to hear from the company at all. He should not have sworn at you, but it sounds like the company has been way overreaching in the amount of contact its initiated and needs to STOP.

      If he ever contacts you to see if you’ll be a reference, agree to provide a positive reference.

      The company should not fight his unemployment claim.

      Those are the things the company can do to do right by this employee. For its own purposes, the company needs a long hard look at this colossal screw up, think about the impact that type of error has on the remaining employees (worrying that they’ll be fired out of the blue, working at the kind of place that can make this level of mistake, and worrying about increased workload), and take efforts to ensure this never happens again and to keep employee morale up before others start jumping ship.

      1. valentine*

        Leave him be, anon team manager. Don’t seek or accept news about him. Tell your employer to give Don Aaron a massive severance check.

    18. Scourge of incompetent management*

      I think the only course of action that would have had a chance would be for your grand-boss to have apologized AND offered him the job AND a raise AND more perks AND a bump in title AND – this is the big one – promised (then followed through) that your boss would be TERMINATED FOR CAUSE IMMEDIATELY for having made this mistake and that, if the employee chose to come back, at the earliest feasible time there would be an all-hands meeting at which the most senior person in the building unequivocally exonerates him of any wrongdoing, unequivocally states that your boss has been FIRED for his egregious negligence, and apologizes on behalf of the company. Too late for that now. If you’re going to be screwed without him in your busy season, then you’re going to be screwed.

      To be fully candid, it doesn’t seem like you fully get how egregious your company’s conduct was here. You seem to be painting your wronged ex-employee as the unreasonable one here: “refuses to come back”, “my boss did apologize”, “refuses to budge”. You also seem to imply that the company was being generous by offering him “even” a bump in title – only after he said no to the initial offer of just getting his job back.

      1. Marjery*

        Yes – this.

        I absolutely admire that he won’t come back even though he doesn’t have another job.

        OMG what sort of company is this?

    19. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      Here’s the thing you can’t rectify this. Your company screwed up in an astonishingly spectacular manner. That being said, it does sound like this was a good faith effort on the part of your company to make things as right as they could be.

      Your former employee has now chosen not to return. That choice is on him and I would leave it alone from here. Don’t contact him, don’t offer anything more to him, just move on and hire someone new.

    20. NW Mossy*

      Not to sound snarky, but why do you want to continue to work there after this? Why is your boss firing your employee without so much as a courtesy heads-up to you first? If your boss had taken 5 minutes to do that, you likely could have cleared up the same-name confusion on the spot and avoided this whole mess.

      This place is full of bees. You do not want to be in an organization that thinks this is a reasonable way to make staffing decisions.

    21. irene adler*

      Move on.
      Give him the best reference you can.
      Please don’t contest if the fired employee should file for unemployment.

    22. Not So NewReader*

      My direct deposit got canceled because someone was trying to remove a fired employee off of payroll. My checks started bouncing and I was LIVID.

      My story is tame compared to what happened to your employee. Escorted out? Wow. There are very few things more humiliating.

      Your boss made the mistake so YOU have to call the guy? uh, no. Just no. It’s up to the boss or his boss to reach out. Tell your boss that you will not be contacting the employee any more as you do not want police charges filed against you.
      Tell your boss to send him a month’s severance pay with a general letter of recommendation that he can use for work. If his accrued PTO is great than a month’s pay then send the greater of the two.

      My company fires my best subordinate behind my back, I am done. (My people will realize that I cannot protect them and I will lose my authority.) I hope you seriously consider moving on.

    24. msroboto*

      IANAL – If I was him and this happened I would be calling a lawyer. This is wrongful dismissal (if this is even a legal thing). You are even admitting it is by trying to get him back.
      The company is in a precarious position here and you probably ought to back off because this could get even messier.

    25. Autumnheart*

      Your boss fired the most productive employee in your department, because they couldn’t take 20 minutes to document properly and make sure they were firing the correct person? And this was immediately after another employee committed a breach egregious enough to cost the company money and clients? Who’s running this clown school?

      Update your resume and get out of there. Your employee isn’t coming back because your company’s internal business practices are in serious need of an overhaul, and he’s walking proof.

    26. LilySparrow*

      Do your ex-report and the culprit have the same *last name* too? I’m flabbergasted how this even happened.

      Different genders (it sounds like)

      Different teams.

      Different team leads (not consulted, apparently).

      One would assume the different teams are working with different clients.

      And somehow he’s not just wrongfully reprimanded or (which would be bad enough) but terminated on the spot?

      What the heck kind of company do you work for? If I were you, I’d stop wasting my breath trying to get him back, and start putting that energy into job hunting. Good grief.

      1. tink*

        Yeah… even if this was Becky Sm. and Becky Sw. with “at a glance” similar last names AND they looked vaguely similar… why would a functional workplace not do due diligence before actually firing someone and having them escorted out?

      2. Girl friday*

        Both my daughter and I have very common names and we are often employed with people who have the same first and last names as we do. Similar situations do occur!

        1. Autumnheart*

          I work for a large company, and at one point there were 6 employees (nationwide) with the same first and last name as me, three of which were at the same location (corporate). The company assigns all workers a unique number and uses that to identify them. Occasionally someone sent an email or IM to the wrong Autumnheart, but that’s as far as it ever went.

    27. ThankYouRoman*

      This just put more HATRED and fear of companies so large and managers so out of touch you can be walked out for having a similar sounding name. That’s worse than feeling like a warm body or just an employee number. Woah.

      I would have had his same reaction. No. You can’t fix it.

      He busted his hump and this happened to him. I pray that his next job is amazing and nobody would ever fire him while his boss is in a frigging meeting.

      When we terminate anyone their boss is the one who does it. That’s the point. Even if it’s not you deciding to fire them, it’s you breaking the news.

    28. Phoenix Programmer*

      I think you should send him a severence package with another apology and confirmation that you are willing to serve as a reference for his excellent work while under you. Say what you said her – he was a credit to the team amd this mistake has lost a valuable resource.

      At this point it is not about getting him back but completing damage control so that others in your company see you owning the mistake and doing right by staff.

    29. TooTiredToThink*

      Yikes! I agree with the others that I really don’t blame him for not coming back. But I know for myself, I would totally take up the company on the raise; etc… because I don’t have anyone (like a parent) to fall back on. But you can bet that I’d be polishing up my resume and begin looking asap.

    30. Darren*

      The only way you would have a chance to hire him back would be to:

      * Adjust procedures such that this can never happen again (i.e. the manager must be informed prior to termination which would have allowed time to realise it was the wrong person).
      * Fire the manager of your department who got this so wrong in the first place (which lets be honest your company is never going to do)

      That along with the raise, extra PTO, and bump in title might get them back, but really they have no faith now in the company to do it’s role of rewarding good performance effectively.

    31. froodle*

      He was offered his job back, then a raise, then extra perks like more PTO and even a bump in title

      So they fired him without cause and then lowballed him on making it right? Ouch. Yeah I wouldn’t go back either.

      1. The New Wanderer*

        Right – the first step after he was marched out due to mistaken identity was to say, oops, you can come back after all? NOPE. This guy probably can’t believe that his years of productivity/high reviews made so little impact on his management chain that they would just tank his career for no reason. And he probably had no idea that his manager wasn’t aware of this at the time and/or doesn’t believe that, so the swearing (while unprofessional) is an understandable reaction.

        He deserves a huge severance and a change in his file stating he was not fired.

    32. BluntBunny*

      You say you offered him his job back THEN a raise THEN perks THEN a bump of title that was your first mistake. You should have offered him a bump in title WITH a raise WITH perks first. He is your most productive person in the department and your company and shown that he is expendable by firing him with out speaking to you or him. Ask yourself if he did do commit this mistake would you have fired him without warning because that is what happened. He is most likely thinking that even though it was a huge mistake costing money and clients if it was his first mistake and wasn’t intentional that the company would be more reasonable and see the other value he has brought and forgive him. Either your boss believes your company is better if without him or has no idea who he is so no he won’t be coming back.

    33. Bionerd*

      Your company did him wrong. And he is under no obligation to reconsider.

      At this point all you can do is have his back, like (I presume) you would have if your boss had talked to you first.

      Don’t call him anymore. That bridge is burnt. 1. Send your ex-employee a written reference on company letterhead so he doesn’t have to ask.
      2. Send a letter or email of apology and indicate that you will be a good reference if he ever needs one (keep it to apology only, don’t ask him to come back). 3. Make sure his HR file doesn’t indicate he was fired, or that when prospective employers call they aren’t told he’s ineligible for rehire.

      1. Noobtastic*

        Mark the envelope, in big, clear letters on the front: Letter of Reference Enclosed.

        Remember the letter, a while back, where the employee (also badly wronged) was responding to all contact from her former employer by sending mail back, unopened, and with a swear word on it? Yeah, this guy will never know you wrote him a letter of reference, if you don’t clearly label it on the envelope, because he won’t be opening the mail from that company.

        He is owed a large severance package. Not just his unpaid PTO, but an actual severance package, with at least 3 months pay, to carry him over while he looks for a new job. Plus a glowing letter of reference, possibly including a mea culpa IN the letter of reference saying that he is out of a job because the COMPANY made a huge mistake, and any other company would be lucky to have him. In short, grovel.

  24. Midwest writer*

    I just need to let off some steam about the job I am leaving. I have been the editor/reporter/photographer for a weekly newspaper in a rural area for four years. I spent my time here building up a newspaper that has won a number of industry awards and has gained the respect of people in the towns I cover. The company has had some management changes since July, and while I wasn’t looking for a job, when I had the owner of a nearby newspaper offer me not only a significant salary bump but a chance to earn part-ownership of the business, I decided it was the right move for me and my family. Sure, all newspapers could be gone in another few years, but I take that risk at any publication. This one is in an isolated enough community that it has quite a bit of exclusivity and some economic development, so its bottom line is OK, at least for now. It was a rare opportunity and a chance I was willing to make.

    I gave notice Tuesday. I wasn’t expecting a party (my current employer had just promoted me to a title I didn’t really want, and they kind of knew that), but the response was way more negative than I expected. And then, a few hours later, someone I work closely with, who is senior to me but not my supervisor, told me that with my departure, and the fact that the freelance sports reporter we’ve used for five years also announced his resignation this week, they might just close the newspaper entirely. The paper is owned by a regional publishing company and the person who is senior to me has been doing more and more corporate duties (putting out fires, mostly from unaddressed management issues, which were the underlying reasons for the restructuring we’ve been going through). She would just end up focusing on that aspect of the job, which is full-time. We have one other full-time employee who would lose her job.

    The bigger problem is that the community would lose its sole source of local news. I feel awful — I like this town and I don’t plan to move, because I can commute to my new job. I feel like people here are going to blame me for the newspaper shutting down, if it does. I’m sort of wondering if this is some kind of bullying tactic — if you don’t leave, we’ll keep the newspaper open. I thought I worked with really great people, yet all I’ve gotten is really negative reactions. Part of me thinks this is just confirmation that now was the time to move on, because if our particular publication were doing really well, they wouldn’t even consider shutting it down.

    The good news is, after a few days, the senior person I work with asked me to reach out to some other writers I know, to see if they want to apply for my job. So I’m hoping they don’t actually close the paper.

    The response from the highest boss (I will reiterate, very weird structural changes of late) was one sentence (typically communications from him are substantially wordier). Maybe he was mad I didn’t call him? But I’ve only met him once, his family owns the business but he doesn’t work for it and even if he did, it would be at a different location two hours away. Also, it took me three work days to be able to turn in notice in person, because the person I needed to tell in person kept going to other locations for other problems (and continues to not have time for her core duties). I feel like that pretty much sums up my frustrations with the restructuring.

    1. Kathenus*

      If the paper is in such a precarious position that you leaving means it will shut down, it probably would happen soon anyway. That’s not a tenable situation. I understand your feeling bad, but it would not be your fault and you need to do what is best for your life and career. Hopefully it was a knee-jerk response and that they are now taking some more concrete steps to move forward. Feeling bad about the situation is kind of normal, but don’t carry guilt about it. If you can help them out with ideas for new people, great, but just be professional in your last days and then turn your attention to your new role. Best of luck.

      1. Midwest writer*

        Yeah, I had that thought later, too, once I was over the shock of what she said. And to be honest, I’ve heard a few things about our office’s bottom line that hadn’t left me feeling super excited about the paper’s future. The company is fine, our property maybe wasn’t. That did play a role in my decision to take this new job, too. I do have all kinds of things — story ideas I didn’t get around to writing, contact info, photos saved up for future projects, etc. –to leave them. I thought I was making a smooth transition. And then I got that weird response.
        Thanks!

    2. Work Wardrobe*

      It sounds like they really did not handle your notice well at all. It also sounds like their organization is a mess, whether you stay or not, and you can’t base your future on what management chooses to do or not do.

      You made the decision that’s best for you. Hold your head up high.

      1. Midwest writer*

        I think it is a mess. I think they are trying to make it better, but I’m not sure their efforts are having the result they want. They’re going from no middle management and a former CEO who let problems fester until someone quit or needed to be fired to TONS of middle managers. (It’s felt a bit like an Oprah show around here — You get a new title! You get a promotion! New titles for everyone!)

      2. Not So NewReader*

        Agreeing with WW. Some people enjoy their misery and some companies can exhibit similar behavior, they love the victim role. You know your company, perhaps this fits with other things that you have seen.
        Healthy companies like healthy people do not roll in their misery. They work at their problems and hopefully resolve them in some manner.
        You show a healthy attitude here when you say.your new job is a rare opportunity and a chance you are willing to take. This is what healthy looks like.
        Your company is acting pouty. You know, like a five year old who does not get the toy they want. It’s a manipulation to guilt you into staying. To me, it’s just another reason to leave. I would be kind, put things in a good place and leave.

    3. LKW*

      Nope -this is not on your shoulders. Things happen. I’ve had people die in the middle of projects. It’s awful but it happens.

      If a company can’t survive because one or two people leave, then the company wasn’t managing risk. If you were shouldering so much and no one could even poorly replicate what you were doing, then that’s on the company.

      If however, you refused to train people with whom you worked about your job and kept all of those skills to yourself… then do better at your next job.

      1. Midwest writer*

        It’s not that I haven’t trained anyone to do my job. We’re a newspaper — we have an editor (me) who writes the stories, a contract sports reporter, an ad salesperson and someone to run the front desk. The next closest newspaper in our company is more than 30 miles away, so they can’t just pop in and fill in. In the newspaper business, newsrooms are small, ours just happen to be one-person each. And most of the time, there’s not enough news to justify two people doing my job, just to get a bit of redundancy. That part is OK. It’s more than they seemed to be making a business decision out of spite or frustration. I don’t know that they actually were, but it felt that way in the moment. These can be hard-to-fill positions and I came in with a lot more experience than they usually get.

        1. LKW*

          If they’re pulling the plug out of spite -again, not on you. Totally understand cross training might not be possible with a four person staff. Again, that’s the risk they choose to not manage. At any time they could have had a jack of all trades supporting the staff. They chose not to.

        2. WellRed*

          I highly doubt it’s out of spite. It might just be a good time for them to reassess, where they want to be, which is easier to do if you are suddenly looking at departures and hiring and stuff. I also work in a small newsroom. Sometimes when someone leaves, the decision is made to not fill that position, or to close that publication (which was already struggling). None of this is personal and it sounds like it was time for you to move onto a new opportunity regardless of what they decide. Good luck!

    4. nonymous*

      If you are truly committed to keeping newspaper coverage in your home town, assuming your old employer shutters coverage, would it be an opportunity for growth at the new place? Obviously fully replacing coverage is not sustainable, but I’m wondering whether periodic insert (monthly or quarterly) with coverage of the old region in a way that makes financial sense would be a good match?

      After all, the audience for the old paper will need to read something else, right? Why not bring that audience with you?

      1. Midwest writer*

        Oh, yes! I think so, and this is something my husband and I talked about a bit. I would love to see my new company expand to include the market I’m leaving. I think a fairly small amount of advertising would be enough to sustain some kind of online-only venture (we’re not talking lots of full coverage, but local school stuff, sports, local government) that I could put together pretty easily. I am hoping to pitch something like this to my new boss, once I get settled in, and we see if my current paper stays in business. Or even if it doesn’t, I might be able to bring some of my readers with me to the new paper, if it was able to expand coverage a bit. One of the things I’ve done here is cover local news, but also incorporate localized state stories (think state government stuff) that people have found really interesting.

  25. Pollygrammer*

    I mentioned yesterday in the delightful “unprofessional” thread: I’ve been at a job for a week and I’m bailing after today. I’ve never done that before, but I’m not going to feel bad about it.

    I’ve been astonished at how dehumanizing a really formal, hierarchical office can be. I’ve literally been told not to speak until spoken to with all the senior staff. “They look like you, but they’re not like you.”

    How do people handle this? Is the promise of eventually moving up the ladder really enough to keep people going?

    1. Kaz*

      Only to people who really relish the idea of someday being able to dehumanize others. That sounds deeply disturbing. How are you supposed to have any kind of collaborative work done between people who aren’t of exactly equal rank? Who is ever going to risk pointing out a mistake made by senior staff, no matter how major?

    2. Lumen*

      Being told over and over and over for years that money is the only thing that makes you a worthwhile human being is a hell of a drug. It also makes people real susceptible to this sort of dehumanization in the workplace.

      Good for you for recognizing that this is a gross place to be and not somewhere you’re willing to stay.

    3. Kathenus*

      I’m new-ish at my organization (several years, but the culture here is decades), and have been told to my face that what matters is seniority here, not your role or time/experience in the field in general. I’ve never worked anywhere before so strictly hierarchical like this, especially for management. It’s demoralizing.

    4. Nita*

      “They look like you, but they’re not like you.” For real? What, they’re robots or something? Glad you’re bailing. Heard plenty of disfunctional workplace stories, but this is a new one and I’m pretty sure most people don’t handle this because it doesn’t come up. There are lots of workplaces that are formal and not great about how they treat lower-level employees, but these guys seem to have taken it to a new level.

      1. Pollygrammer*

        Yeah, I didn’t think places like this really existed.

        “He might introduce himself as Mike, but he’s Mr. Smith or Sir to you.”

        And completely formal dress code, including pantyhose. I don’t even wear pantyhose to job interviews or funerals. The job I’m taking is a lower salary, but I’m not questioning my decision.

        1. Lumen*

          “Don’t look Mr. Smith Sir in the eyes! The alien intelligence inside of him will awaken to devour lesser souls! Look away, look away!”

          Such BS.

      2. A-nony-nony!*

        I don’t think I would have been able to stop myself from saying “How so?” just to see what words came out of their mouth to justify such a statement.

        I wouldn’t last a week there, so I’m impressed you made it that long. Good luck with your new job!

      3. Lanon*

        They tried that crap with the custodial and support / warehousing staff at our place. They were instructed to only call the devs and lab people by surnames and to be real formal and stuff.

        Lasted about a week tops because we all get along great and treasure our direct and honest communication with each other. Also, being referred to by surname makes me feel old.

    5. Art3mis*

      My old job was like that. We were the support staff and the important lawyers at the east coast office couldn’t be bothered with whatever petty questions we had, even if it was the fastest way to clear things up. Though every time I did speak to them, they were all very nice and pleasant and happy to help. One time I emailed one of them a quick question, and got a quick response, but b/c I had to cc a ton of people on my emails it BLEW UP the next day about how I should not have emailed that person. I was there less than a year and would have left after only a couple of months if I could have afforded to quit without something else.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      I handled it wrong, I guess.
      I made sure that I looked Mr. Smith in the eye and said “Good morning, Bob.” before he said anything.

      It was funny because no one else did that, so he did not know what to do. He said good morning back to me and looked kind of lost.

      “NSNR, YOU CAN’T DO THAT!”

      Too late. haha.

      Nothing happened to me because of it.

    7. Yay commenting on AAM!*

      Honestly, every job I’ve had where I got a red flag on Day 1, I ended up finding way worse stuff the longer I stayed, and by the time I left, I was frustrated and demoralized and had just wasted time off my job search. It’s best that you listened to your intuition and cut your losses early on.

    8. Jane of All Trades*

      Oh man! Good for you for getting out of there! I started a new job 6 weeks ago and while the hierarchy is not as terrible, it is terrible enough. I’ve never before been in a job where I seem to have to reach some level of seniority to be recognized as a human. It feels awful. And the weird thing is, this appears to be true only for my department, which I am temporarily assigned to. I can’t quit because I invested so much to be able to get this job, and it pays twice as much as my old, but if it’s still this bad in a few months I’m out of there.
      I really hope your new job is much better. Good on you for leaving!

  26. Penelope*

    I posted last week about feeling stressed and anxious from finding it my contract won’t be renewed. Over the past week or so I’d started updating my CV, LinkedIn etc., and filling in job applications. For a few days I started to feel like I was starting to get a better hold on my anxiety and being able to get on with things.

    But for some reason, last night I started feeling out of control again and I can’t pinpoint why. It’s like suddenly I’m back to that day I got the news, I can’t eat or sleep. It’s terribly frustrating because I really need to function properly – both with applications and to wrap things up at my current job.

    Could it be due to the monthly cycle? I don’t usually experience extra anxiety as part of it but my stress levels are pretty heightened right now. I’m hoping this is temporary and will calm down again by tomorrow. The last two weeks have been so difficult and I know it’s going to continue to be stressful for a while. I’m trying to mentally prepare myself for disappointment but I know (from experience) I’ll feel each one hard.

    I wish I had a magic crystal ball to tell me it’ll all work out for the better. Right now I just feel like my walls are closing in and even though I know I need to take actions to get myself out I can barely move for anxiety and fear.

    1. Very Special Librarian*

      Have you thought of seeing a therapist? Being paralyzed as you are it might help to have a third person POV on the situation. I’m not trying to do an arm chair diagnosis, but I have found my therapist and therapy to really helpful in the past.

    2. Arachnia*

      Ah, isn’t brain chemistry delightful. :(
      I’m really sorry you’re going through this- whether it’s hormones or a bout of depression or anxiety whatever. Is there any way you can talk to a therapist or someone like that? Maybe even online? My husband experiences similar things, so you have my utmost sympathy – for him, it’s usually a matter of time and sleep to get over it, but while it’s happening it’s just awful. He gets by just doing the bare minimum of what’s required so that his life doesn’t fall apart, so maybe if you can figure out what that is, it will help.

    3. Lumen*

      Emotions that we suppress (often for very good, survival-based reasons like “I can’t focus on this right now, I need to update my CV and LinkedIn and and and”) have a way of coming back. And back. And back. Until we really sit with them, feel the discomfort in all its lurid intensity, and work our way through it. Through ALL of it.

      And then when those emotions team up with hormones, things get real extra special.

      So it could be both. Spend some time with your feelings. Don’t judge them. It’s okay to feel scared. It’s okay to feel sad and angry. Things get exponentially harder when we not only feel a tough thing, but then get worked up about the fact that we’re feeling it. Ie, this level of stress is bad enough without adding in stress ABOUT the stress.

      Remember to breathe, take it slow, and be very gentle with yourself. Eat what you can even if your appetite is shot. Lie quietly in bed in the dark, eyes closed, just to rest your body, even if it’s hard to sleep. Don’t look at the clock. You’re correct that your ability to function is non-negotiable, but you will not be able to beat anxiety out of yourself. All that will do is increase the anxiety. The approach to take with yourself and your anxiety is soft, tender, and patient.

      Try not to take it too hard when the disappointments happen – I know that’s easier said than done, but it is important to build up your resilience. There are so many options and opportunities for you out there, so don’t get married to each one. That’ll just break your heart.

      Every time the emotions come back and you give them the respect and care that you deserve, they’ll feel a little less intense.

      I think you are your own crystal ball, here: you know that things will work out, and be better for you. That’s your higher self trying to talk you down from your panicked self. Listen to THAT voice, the one telling you that you have been in rough situations before and got through them just fine. You’ll get through this one, too.

      1. It’s just a bad day, not a bad life*

        As someone who is going through a similar time, thank you for this articulate wonderful response. It is so easy to let the depression and anxiety make me feel bad for feeling bad, if that makes sense.

      2. Penelope*

        Thank you for the thoughtful reply.

        The thing is I thought I /had/ dealt with the emotions. The first few days were awful but then by the first weekend I thought I’d gotten a grasp on the situation, and this week I’d managed to update my CV and start writing cover letters. I don’t know why I’m experiencing this sudden crash right now and it’s scaring me because it’s hindering my process.

        Maybe I’m just having a bad day (or a bad night last night). I plan on going back to the gym tomorrow (Saturday) morning , I haven’t been since I got the news and I don’t think that’s helping with my state of mind.

        1. Lumen*

          I think that’s just because emotions, even if we’ve processed them, can still get triggered, or come up like a toddler screaming ‘pay attention to meeeee’. And that’s perfectly normal and okay. Don’t freak out about feeling the sudden crash – just feel it. You’re allowed. This is stressful! Take care of yourself.

          1. TooTiredToThink*

            Exactly!

            The only thing that kept me going when I got laid off was that I had made a very detailed to do list and worked through it. I am not a list maker; but it helped me keep my emotions in check. Then when things were really bad, I took a nap.

    4. Nita*

      I get that too. Not sure what’s causing it, but my guess is just that stress is sneaky and can be set off by things you’re only aware of subconsciously. For example, you see a random letter on your table and your mind connects the letter to bills, and then you’re back to worrying without realizing what triggered it. Sorry you’re dealing with this, and I hope your job search goes well. Sometimes it helps me to think through the worst-case scenario, accept it so it won’t crush me completely if it happens, and try to come up with a backup plan.

    5. Joielle*

      Oh no, I totally feel you and it is THE WORST. This isn’t an attempt to diagnose or offer medical advice (I’m a lawyer, not a doctor), but I recently started on a low dose of beta blockers and it’s been doing wonders for me. It doesn’t treat the anxiety itself, per se, but it takes the edge off that physical panicky reaction that was making it hard for me to eat and sleep (heart pounding, lightheadedness, no appetite, vague but powerful sense of dread… you know). I’m taking it every day for now, but I know some people just use it as needed, when the panic starts to creep in. I second/third the recommendation to see a therapist if you can, but even just seeing a regular general doctor could help… and might be faster to get an appointment. I’m pulling for you.

      1. Penelope*

        I’ve actually taken beta blockers in the past, I don’t remember how much they helped but I plan on asking my doctor about it (have an appointment next week). I’m not keen to start trying anything stronger since I know they can sometimes make things worse if it turns out they’re not suitable.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      My period always seemed to amplify upset/worry. No fun.
      Please look into a drink with electrolytes in it and make sure you have some veggies. Yes, it matters. Stress takes vitamins and minerals out of our bodies at an incredible clip.
      This will get better, keep looking up.
      I am sorry it’s so hard right now.

      1. A Non E. Mouse*

        My period always seemed to amplify upset/worry. No fun.

        Yes, everything is just so much closer to the surface, so I would definitely do a lot of self care (mine would be a Netflix binge and some take out Chinese) and see if it was better in the morning.

        Hugs if you want them.

    7. Autumnheart*

      I would chalk this up to being a human being with feelings. Losing your job is a traumatic event and it’s normal to feel anxious about it until you’re on a more comfortable footing. Just because you have a handle on what your next steps are doesn’t mean your situation is stable. This is an anxious time and it’s normal for you to feel anxious.

      But if you need better coping skills, take the time to perform extra self-care. Set aside an hour for you to do a really comforting thing every day. Write a list of the things you need to take care of, and cross them off when they’re done, so you have a visual reminder that you’re being productive and handling things. (It’ll also help you stay on track when you feel like you’re floundering.) Make sure to get 8 hours of sleep, drink your water, get in your fruits and veggies, take a walk every day, do some stretching or yoga or mindfulness exercises to clear your mind and manage the physical effects of stress. Magnesium citrate is a good supplement to take (assuming no health contraindications) to help do that.

    8. restingbutchface*

      Having anxiety myself I know the worst thing for me is reminding myself that if I don’t take X action, everything will be worse. That’s just the anxiety pretending to be a friend. Try to deflect thoughts of the future as that tends to spiral into catastrophising. Just remind yourself you’re doing X and Y today and that’s enough.

      Good luck friend, I hope it works out.

      1. It’s just a bad day, not a bad life*

        I’m deep in the throes of “if I don’t take some sort of action everything will fall apart” and I had never thought of it that way, as anxiety masquerading as progress. Well put

  27. MsChanandlerBong*

    I posted a few weeks ago about a freelancer who has health issues and often misses deadlines or writes to us an hour before something is due and asks for it to be reassigned because she doesn’t feel well. I have made a few suggestions to help curb the problem. One was to claim short tasks so that it’s not so disruptive if she asks for a last-minute reassignment (it’s easy to write 250 words in a hurry…not so easy to write 2,000 words in a hurry). Another was to claim tasks with long lead times and start working on them right away so she can turn in them in before her symptoms flare up. For example, if she claims a task due in 10 days and works on it immediately, she won’t have to miss a deadline or ask for reassignment if she has a health issue on Day 9. However, she tends to claim a task due in 10 days, wait until Day 9.5 before she starts it, and then ask for reassignment with only hours to go until the deadline.

    She has continued to ask for last-minute reassignment, which is highly disruptive to our operations, as we have to scramble to find someone else to do the work (or do it in-house, which takes staff members away from their administrative duties). I have to suspend her. However, I want to make sure I have all my ducks in a row. She is a freelancer, so there is no employment relationship. Our company is also tiny, so we are not bound by ADA or FMLA. I still want to be kind about it, though, and to make it clear that this is a performance issue and not an issue of wanting to get rid of someone with health issues. I’d love some suggestions for wording I can use to make that clear.

    1. Kaz*

      There are two separate issues: that she frequently isn’t working due to health problems, and that she doesn’t start on tasks when she claims them. I would make the second issue the one that you start asking her to improve on. There may be no way for her to predict that she’ll be out on Day 9, but she certainly knows on Day 1 when she claims the task whether she’s feeling good that day. I would say that if she can’t start working on a task that day or the next, even if it’s not due for 10 days, that you reassign it right away.

      1. MsChanandlerBong*

        Yeah, since it’s a freelance position, the first issue doesn’t matter much. We have no quota or anything, so she can do one assignment a month or 100 assignments a month–whatever she feels up to doing. I freelanced for 13 years, and the whole reason I did it was because I have chronic health issues that make life unpredictable. I would work like crazy when I was up to it, and then I’d do nothing for three weeks when I had a flare and couldn’t get out of bed. I will say we have given her a lot more leeway than we would give anyone else.

    2. samiratou*

      I think you need to be straight with her that you aren’t going to be able to accommodate further reassigments. Note that you’ve suggested ways to work with your company and her health issues, but the constant reassigments are not sustainable, and if they continue, you won’t be assigning any more work to her.

      1. Rose Tyler*

        I would stick to citing what has happened, not the reasons behind it. “Of the last 10 assignments claimed you have been late on 3 and asked for extensions on 5 others. It’s not sustainable for this to continue so we’ve removed you from the freelancing pool effective today.”

        1. LKW*

          I think this is the best approach. It leaves little room for misinterpretation and focuses simply on the business need not being met.

        2. MsChanandlerBong*

          Perfect. I just sent the email. Even though I suspended her, it’s a short suspension, so she won’t be unable to claim assignments for long. I also put some restrictions on her account (no claiming long tasks, no claiming tasks with long lead times and waiting until the last minute) and told her we can revisit them if we go six months without the same issue occurring.

    3. Two Dog Night*

      I’d give her the numbers: “Out of the last x assignments, you asked for y to be reassigned with less than 24 hours notice. This is too disruptive to our operations, so we won’t be able to give you any more projects.” You’ve done your best to work with her; it’s time to move on.

  28. Editor Person*

    Does anyone else have a favorite bathroom stall at work? The bathroom on my floor has 11 stalls so I have plenty of choice but I usually default to stall #3 or #5 (or #7 if I’m, um, going to be there a little longer). Right now #3 is out of order and I don’t not have feelings about this.

    1. Cruciatus*

      Yes! There’s the stall I always use, then the one I’ll use if that first one is in use, and so on. All the stalls seem fine, but I definitely have preferences though I’m not sure I could pinpoint why I have them.

    2. RabbitRabbit*

      There’s one stall door that doesn’t have the latch work quite right – if the next stall door slams shut, the partition wiggles enough to pop the latch sometimes. I avoid that one like the plague.

    3. No Green No Haze*

      Yep.

      I’ve been defaulting to a particular stall for years now, long enough that trying to consciously break the habit since I’ve noticed is an appreciable effort. Apparently My Stall is under one of the overhead lights, directly across from a sink that reliably has a working soap dispenser, and a comfortable number of steps into the room. (Door, stride, stride, turn.)

    6. Tmarie*

      “My” stall, one of seven, ran out of toilet paper towards the end of the day. I made sure before I left the restroom that the next stall over had its paper draping longer than the divider in case someone else needed paper in “my” stall. Yeah, I get it.

    7. M. Albertine*

      I have been at this job for a year and I still haven’t claimed a favorite stall yet. This is VERY unlike me. My old job it was stall #3, but #5 for longer visits.

    8. Molly*

      Yep. We only have 3 stalls. The first one flushes so hard you’re likely to need to towel off afterwards. The third one has a such a weak flow you have to flush it twice to get it to take down just one paper. The middle one is just right!

    9. MegPR*

      LOL yes. There are only two, but the first one always. The second one is a handicap stall and the loo is higher and the whole stall is huge. Too funny glad I’m not the only one

    10. froodle*

      Yep. My office has two ladies bathrooms, with two stalls each. The ground floor is fully tiled right up to the ceiling in slick white tiles and has greenish fluorescent lights that make a rolling wash of colour across the floor and walls and the mirrors are warped and catch odd corners of the room in the reflection, that a mirror that size in that position shouldn’t do. It’s a horror movie waiting to happen so I avoid it as k do not want to be murdered while peeing.

      The upstairs toilet, once a wasp got in one of the cubicles with me while I was… not in a position to run away, so now it’s cursed. I can use the wasp toilet if I have to, but really only the non murder non wasp toilet is a comfortable choice for me.

    11. Gumby*

      Absolutely. Stall #3 flushes better than the others in the bathroom nearest my office. Sadly, we recently hired 2 more women and I no longer have exclusive access to my bathroom (a 4-seater) and stall #3 is popular with our new hires too.

      (There are more than 3 women here – the others just sit closer to a different bathroom.)

    12. Jaid_Diah*

      I’m on the 3rd floor, which is chock full of people and busted ice makers. So my go-to is the second floor because they’re mostly WFH and the ice machine works. So I get to go AND pick up ice on the way back.

    13. Friday afternoon fever*

      We have a single occupancy restroom. My favorite stall is …in my apartment. Do I sometimes go home on my lunch to use it? Oh yes.

  29. Burny McBurnout*

    So in the last few weeks I’ve been screened out of a job because of my college GPA (I’m over 40 so it’s good to know that 25 years of employment mean less than my college grades). I’ve been told I’m lying about the skills listed on my resume – apparently a real expert can tell how in-depth a person’s Excel skills are just by showing them a spreadsheet! I’ve been told I’m overqualified for role A, underqualified for role B (because apparently if you’re not an admin coming out of “finance” you can’t possibly do things like keep a person’s calendar correctly) and been ghosted on roles C through Z. Roles A and B by the way had nearly identical job descriptions. Apparently, I’m waiting for the Goldilocks of jobs. Goody. I’ve only been looking for 2 years. How long are fairy tale quests supposed to last?
    I’m currently underemployed, both in terms of skills usage and pay and I just need a job. I’m beyond demoralized. I keep jumping through all the hoops and getting nowhere. I never show any of the current vitriol I’m spewing to potential employers or recruiters, and I always send thank you notes and am polite in my follow-ups. According to recruiters and hiring managers I ask my resume is great, my skills are wonderful, I’m pleasant and gracious and polished. The career coach shined up my resume even further and told me I shouldn’t be having any problems (so glad I paid money to hear that). I get great reviews from every employer past or present. At this point I’m considering making a completely fake resume to send out and troll recruiters with, because why the hell not? At least I’d amuse myself rather than being depressed about the whole rigamarole.

    1. Anon From Here*

      Also over 40, have also had a devil of a time finding work once I’ve hit this “magic” threshold, and I am here to tell you that it is absolutely ageism. It’s hella demoralizing and it’s driven me into year after year of freelancing and self-employment.

      Don’t outright lie on your resume, but wherever you can, don’t include dates that will show at a glance that you’re over 35. Also, really dig down into how you describe your skills and what problems you’ve solved, things you’ve accomplished, money you’ve saved, etc. You have to make the people reading your resume understand that your time in the workforce is valuable and you will bring a wealth of experience to their office.

    2. OtterB*

      My husband didn’t get a job after an interview a few years ago because of his college GPA. He was over 45 at the time and had held, and done well in, several related jobs.
      No advice to offer, just sympathy.

    3. Manager's Manager*

      Are you getting interviews at all or just being screened out before that step? Are you selective in positions you apply for or just applying for anything that you see?

      1. Burny McBurnout*

        I’m getting some interviews, but also am getting screened out in phone interviews. I am very selective in the positions I apply for. Even though I know I could absolutely handle certain positions I don’t apply because I can tell that they’re looking for someone that’s not me(they want that mythical 25 year old with 15 years experience and by gum they’ll keep posting that job till that unicorn pops up!) And there are certain recruiting firms whose postings I don’t respond to at all because I know they only consider candidates with really specific backgrounds.
        One problem is that the job titles in the admin world are poorly defined. A post for an EA could be a high level supporting C suite at a major company or it could be a 2 person shop looking for a receptionist/typist. And there are plenty of places who advertise for an AA but expect them to really be receptionist/office manager/payroll and benefits and company shrink all for $45k/year. Plus there are the fake postings from recruiters who just want resumes for their databases but don’t actually bother looking at them. Luckily(?) after searching for so long those are easy to pick out because they never change and are posted every 2 months like clockwork.

        1. Yay commenting on AAM!*

          If it makes you feel better…my husband has a PhD and at one point had to apply for something (a grant? I don’t even remember) that asked for a list of every class he’d taken, along with his grades…from high school onward.

          He’s young for his grade, so he’s really lucky that 14 Year Old Him was responsible enough to get good grades in Algebra.

    5. Art3mis*

      I have been exactly in your position for similar roles. I wish I had answers. I’m also underemployed. I have people ask me why I don’t work in something more advanced than what I’m doing. Well, gosh I’d love to, if I could get hired into them.

      I had one interviewer ask me if I took the ACT or SAT. I said I didn’t take either. Not sure how it would even be relevant after 20+ years.

      1. Burny McBurnout*

        Yes! I have people asking me why I’m not doing more challenging or “valuable” work. I”M EFFING TRYING TO JERKWADS!
        (Also you gotta love how people discount admin work until they can’t figure out how to send an email or make a copy or scan something)

      2. Noobtastic*

        I took one of those. Can’t remember which, but I’m sure I took one of them. Heck, I may have taken both!

        How in the world is that even relevant, at this point?!

    6. Phoenix Programmer*

      Agree that the grade thing is ridiculous and it’s beyond rude to call anyone a liar but ….

      Yes an expert really can tell within a short time how good you are at Excel. If you can’t clean dirty data systematically and produce a polished dashboard with variable inputs that controls for user error in less than an hour you are not an expert in Excel. If you can’t do the above in less than four hours you are not advanced at Excel.

      It also struck me that a recruiter apparently polished your resume. Have you confirmed you agree with their edits? The few times recruiters have touched my resume their representation of my work was wrong and often inflated my skills.

      Finally the payroll/AP/receptionist for 45k is very much the market rate
      where I live for an experienced Admin Assistant with 15-20 years in the role. EAs who manage other AAs could possibly make 60k.

      1. Phoenix Programmer*

        Lastly – I know a few older 50-65 who left companies after 30 years in the role or we’re laid off and they did get jobs. Just not at the salary they expected.

        Frankly folks who have been at one org for 30 years are living in an almost completely different economy. They are frequently grandfathered into higher salary bands, better retirement benefits, and hosts of other benefits that new workers don’t get at the same company. This has been true everywhere I work.

        I remember the crushing reality of one finance analyst job I took. At the going rate of wage growth if I stayed 25 years in the role like my 58 yo coworker did I would be making LESS in 25 years then she was TODAY. That’s the reality of the modern workforce – very low wages. More work with fewer FTE.

  30. Very Special Librarian*

    Interview purse advice needed: I normally carry a big leather satchel in bright purple, but I want something more professional for my interview. However, I am only going to carry it for one day. So… can I get away with a basic black Target sort of thing for like 40 bucks or do I really need to buy something nice for one day? (I don’t have a lot of time o hunt for clearance at this point.)

    I work in Libraries in Higher Ed, if that context helps.

    1. Emmie*

      I’ve carried basic Target bags for interviews. I have one in grey and another in a caramel tan. I liked it better than black because both colors match traditional interview color suits like black, or navy.

    2. Librarianlaura*

      You absolutely do not need to spend tons of money for something you’re only going to use on occasion. My past two bags that I have used for this purpose came from H&M and The Gap via a thrift store.

    3. Jane*

      Basic from target is fine. But also check out places like TJ max or Marshalls–might have better luck for the same amount of money.

    5. Rey*

      Do you have any friends that you could borrow something from? I would not hesitate to lend something to a friend for a single day.

      1. DataGirl*

        A Target bag is good, or if you have a TJ Maxx or similar store you can get name brand purses for cheap. That’s where I buy all my purses and bags- currently I’m carrying a Kenneth Cole that I definitely paid less than $40 for.

    7. Jack Be Nimble*

      Man, I wish there was a way to send purses via the internet! I have a really nice black Coach purse that I never carry any more that is gathering dust in my closet!

    8. CTT*

      As long as it looks professional, the cost doesn’t matter. Although as someone who is a big proponent of having at least one of everything in basic black, I might suggest buying something a smidge nicer/higher quality so you’ll always have a good black bag should you suddenly need one, even if it’s 10 years from now.

    9. Maggie May*

      I use a military medic bag for my day-to-day and professional bag – it’s big enough to hold my wallet, phone and ipad but not so big that things get lost.

      It also probably depends on the field – I’m in SE so I have to play down femininity.

    10. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      Yes you can get away with a throw away cheapie…

      Warning!!!! Make sure you do a little test by getting the bag wet and making sure it doesn’t bleed.

      I’ve had more than one Target-type bag do this to me and ruined/stained the clothes I was wearing.

    11. Third username*

      TJ Maxx has many good professional looking bags at all price points. I’ve gotten two from there. I think Target is fine as well.

    12. Hermione'sAtTheLibrary*

      I just wanted to say your bright purple bag sounds awesome, and if you were interviewing at my academic library, it would make me like you even more.

      1. Very Special Librarian*

        I would carry it, but it is really worn out. It has damage which is why I don’t want to carry it. When I start work (if I get the job) I will be certainly carrying something colorful.

    13. MegPR*

      Neutral colors that match are more important than brand in terms of professionalism IMO. You could try poshmark for a second hand bag or ebay even. Target is totally ok too. The way you look put together matters more than the individual pieces alone.

    14. Autumnheart*

      Target has some pretty nice structured purses right now. I’d totally go that route. Marshalls/TJ Maxx would also be a place to look at.

    15. Close Bracket*

      Are you sure you are only ever going to have on interview? I regarded my interview bag as an investment similar to my suit. I have a lovely, flat Coach purse that looks like a thin briefcase which I get compliments on. It holds my resumes, keys, chapstick, phone, and wallet. I found it on their website, and it was like $100.

    16. Dr. Anonymous*

      You can absolutely have an inexpensive purse at an interview at an academic library unless it is a fancy-pants elite institution. You’re being interviewed by academic librarians. None of them have any damn money, either.

        1. DaniCalifornia*

          Her and Miss Manners are nowhere near what they used to be when I was 9 and reading WaPo. But I realize it’s now their children/grandchildren/other writers responding so I can understand why.

        2. Pollygrammer*

          People have started saying “veggies” instead of “vegetables,” and that sort of chicanery really does need to be addressed in multiple national publications!

      2. soon 2be former fed*

        In all fairness, Dear Abby’s letter says that the coworker hears frequent throwing up. AAM’s letter does not. It must be disconcerting to hear this day after day.

    2. Person from the Resume*

      Unfortunately as is often the case the LW takes speaking directly to the person with the problem off the table due to discomfort. I understand not wanting to have the difficult conversation (I do), but I think that is the only good actionable solution. Unlike today’s AAM short answer question this is clearly some kind of ongoing issue not scars from a years back. On the other hand all the reason’s listed by the LW for her not saying anything (“I’m afraid I’ll embarrass her, make her quit”) are equally or more so as likely if HR or her gossipy manager speaks with the co-worker instead of the LW.

      I do think a one on one conversation is the only possible decent solution. The suggestion to report the problem to HR without naming names, but telling them where how to locate the vomiting co-worker is just off.
      #1 I don’t think this is HR’s job to handle.
      #2 If you’re reporting her, just report her by name instead of making it extra weird by not saying her name but telling them how to ID her.
      #3 “I’ve noticed you vomiting” is better than “some of your co-workers noticed you vomiting.” which can make the co-worker wonder if the whole office has been talking behind her back.

      Basically this isn’t a work problem for HR or the manager to solve. If the LW wants to help they need to speak to the co-worker. If they can’t bring themselves to do that I think trying to get someone else to have the conversation is not a good idea.

      1. BRR*

        This is such a good point. If the LW is concerned about embarrassing their coworker, reporting it to HR is going to be far more effective in making it awkward for the coworker than if the LW says anything. Might as well go all out and send an all-staff email.

    3. KR*

      I read it and I was appalled. Like… The coworker knows they throw up every day at the same time. They don’t need intervention at work.

    4. clunker*

      Yikes @ dear abby’s answer on this one!

      “Go to HR” um that’s horrible? Also the letter writer on dear abby didn’t mention, but if the coworker in question isn’t very thin/is overweight, it’s entirely possible that HR’s response will be to advise “better” weight loss methods to her which will definitely definitely only make things worse. If they are thin, it’s very likely that they’ll be told that their weight is fine. Neither is a good thing to hear if you have an eating disorder. (Speaking from experience, any feedback I’ve ever gotten along the lines of “oh your current weight is actually just fine. You aren’t fat at all!” has just sent my brain into a spiral of “it’s okay now but if i eat, it won’t be okay” or at least required energy and work to prevent it from spiraling into that)

      (Yes, HR shouldn’t be saying anything along either of those lines, but people often casually say these things when talking to people they think have eating disorders in the process of telling them to get help. Lots of people think that it’s a really simple issue and their reassurance will definitely be 100% helpful unless they’ve received specific training that it’s really not.)

      Allison’s advice is deffo way better on this. The only extra stuff I’d say is to specifically avoid any talk calling foods “bad” or “indulgent” or suggesting that you lack self control if you eat certain foods. Avoiding any sort of calorie/weight talk is nice too.

    5. dawbs*

      Wouldn’t it suck toi get the hr call if she’s just pregnant. Or hha chronic migraine. Or anything else? (Incl an eating disorder)

      I’d think “be supportive. and if you get close enough to be friends, then act like a friend. A friend might be able to address it. a friend might also just have conversations and know the good and bad and health crap in someone’s life.
      So, supportive and friendly”

    6. arjumand*

      OT but ever since GDPR I can’t go on uexpress anymore. So annoying. I used to spend hours catching up on all the Miss Manners letters.
      Now I can only do that if I open Opera in private mode and use their built in VPN. Effing GDPR.

  32. Emmie*

    What hills are worth dying on?

    Sometimes doing the right thing can cost you your professional reputation, relationships with others, or your job. My coworker said that there are some hills that are worth dying on, and we should think about what those are today. What things would you stand up for? I would love to hear your stories about a professional colleague who did this too.

    FWIW, this has been on my mind for a few days. IMHO, I also think how a person approaches these “hills” matter. I imagine that it’d be helpful to find a professional approach to these hills, if one is available.

      1. School Inclusion Specialist*

        Yes–This is literally my job, too–to support my schools transition to being fully accessible to students with disabilities.

        It’s interesting though–In order to ultimately achieve the goal, I have to tamp down my fantasies of a fully UDL school (which is Emmie’s point that there is a “professional way to approach those hills”). I work it in however I can, but given the majority of the teaching population is at a very early point in understanding the implementation of supports for students with identified disabilities, I have to have a very narrow focus.

        I have been in positions of leadership where I can just say something needs to happen and it will. Like hiring a diverse workforce and implementing effective cultural competence training. But I can’t go into everyone’s class and teach for them every day (and that would be bad anyway because I learn so much from the people I work with).

    2. Anon From Here*

      That’s a really broad question, but two things that come immediately to mind: (1) I won’t tolerate being yelled at or disrespected; and (2) I will take unpaid time off, or not renew a contract, so that I can spend time with friends and family instead.

      (1) because I’m too old, educated, and skilled for this sh-t any more. (2) because life is too short.

    3. Rey*

      My office deals with federal compliance requirements, so that’s the hill we die on. We don’t want to alienate anyone, but when it comes down to it, we have to follow the exact requirements because it’s our job on the line if we’re found to be complicit in any non-compliance.

      1. RabbitRabbit*

        Same. I transitioned into this role and have had to help enforce this on well-liked former colleagues. I try to recuse myself when needed to avoid any implied conflict of interest in either direction (liked the colleagues, left on bad terms with the administrator), but these are the rules. I don’t want our institution to show up on the evening news.

    4. Nervous Nellie*

      Anything related to the law. I work in accounting and will not “spin” numbers – fudging data is wrong and in many cases illegal. Every now and then a higher-up will ask for an “interpretation’ of the numbers. Dude, we’re bleeding money and you know it. Don’t ask me to add some zeroes to appease the shareholders.

    6. Animal worker*

      My last position the hill was animal-welfare related. Human safety and welfare could be as well. Really, this is an individual decision not just related to the issue itself, but to your life circumstance and situation. Such as can you just quit your job or do you need to find another one first. Every person and situation is different, and it’s a very personal decision.

    7. LCL*

      Certain industry specific safety practices, and the company interpretation and application of these practices.

    8. Princess Scrivener*

      Supporting / fighting for subordinates. I had two of the best NCOs in the military working for me, and I submitted them for merit-related medals when they moved on to other jobs. TPTB disapproved, saying they weren’t high-ranking enough for that particular medal (they were one grade lower), no exceptions, blah blah. Argh. I tried for a year in each case, but I never could get them approved. Over the course of my career, several of my bosses were able to do this for me, but I couldn’t make it happen. I still get frustrated when I think about it.

    9. Middle School Teacher*

      Anything related to personal safety. I will not ever teach in a class with a physically violent student ever again. One black eye was enough, thanks.

    11. Yay commenting on AAM!*

      Safety standards compliance, in life or death matters, in particular where children are involved.

      You would be utterly *shocked* at how many people think it is OK to ignore these except when the health inspector or company auditor is present. I’ve been treated like I’m insubordinate and difficult for expecting the rules to be followed. I do not want to be responsible for someone being injured or killed, especially the little ones.

      1. Emmie*

        Hahah. My coworker is a senior executive, and blogs / writes a paragraph each day. I thought it was an excellent point. For me, the hills are related to regulations we must follow, harassment of others, and conducting work with integrity.

  33. ThursdaysGeek*

    Our company Christmas party is scheduled for this year. (I’m not on the committee that does it or anything.) I could suggest that next year they call it a holiday party instead of a Christmas party. But will that really make it more inclusive? There will still be a tree and presents, no matter what it is called.

    1. curly sue*

      Speaking only for myself, as a Jewish person (because the saying ‘two Jews, three opinions’ is deeply valid) — if you’re going to keep the trapping of Christmas, I would vastly prefer the label on the tin to be honest. Just call it a Christmas party. I find that much less offensive than sticking up a menorah decal somewhere and calling it a ‘holiday’ party, as though the two holidays were somehow culturally equivalent.

    2. Nacho*

      Speaking as a Jew, I always hated it when people tried to have “holiday” parties as if they were being inclusive. Even if you dropped the presents and the tree and didn’t have it on December 25th, there’s no getting around the fact that it’s nowhere near any major Jewish or Muslim holidays. It’s still a Christmas party, you’re just lying to people about it.

      IMO, it’s a lot more inclusive to have your Christmas party, and then give at least small nods to the major holidays. Not parties, since non-Christian holidays aren’t really secular enough for that, but order pizza or something for the office and wish everybody a happy Rosh Hashanah.

      1. curly sue*

        Oh man. I’d die of shock (pleasant shock!) if a workplace acknowledged the high holidays so matter-of-factly and in a non-othering way.

        If folks wanted to actually mark Hanukkah in way most people would appreciate, bring in jelly doughnuts during the first week of December (at least this year – it starts the night of Dec 2 in 2018).

        1. MatKnifeNinja*

          I’m picky. Not any jelly donut will do. My Israeli friend’s sufganiyot are to die for.

      2. ThursdaysGeek*

        Pizza!? With cheese and pepperoni? Yeah, I think the jelly donuts would be a LOT better option. Should I get them from a chain like Krispy Kreme, a local panderia, or would it matter? I don’t know if anyone in our office is Jewish, but donuts would go over well anyway.

        We are open to celebrating pretty much any holiday, with a strong leaning towards the Christian and Mexican ones.

        1. curly sue*

          … You can get kosher pizza. I eat a lot of veggie pizza or double-cheese with my kids, and bigger cities with decent-sized Jewish populations will often have kosher pizzerias.

          I’m Canadian, so years when I don’t have the time to make sufganiot (the traditional Israeli Hanukkah doughnuts) I just go to Tim Horton’s. I’m sure Dunkin’ works just as well, but I’ve never actually had anything from Krispy Kreme so I couldn’t speak to that. Just be sure wherever you get them from doesn’t deep-fry in lard, if you’re worried about the kosher aspect.

          1. ThursdaysGeek*

            Is the pizza kosher if it is vegetarian? If it takes more than that, I suspect kosher pizza isn’t available around here. We also don’t have Dunkin or Tim Horton’s. I’ll check before buying any to see if they are deep-fried in lard. It’s quite possible that no-one here is Jewish, but they aren’t the only ones who are not Christian.

            1. LKW*

              A veggie pizza is only kosher if
              1. The entire pizza shop is vegetarian
              2. All ingredients are kosher
              3. The kitchen/premises have been inspected, blessed and approved by a certified rabbi.

              So – your typical domino’s veggie pizza is not kosher at all.

              1. MatKnifeNinja*

                Which is why most secular Christmas parties suck depending on which level of Kosher you keep.

                And I really really really hate it when people order a veggie pizza from Dominos when I was keeping Kosher. I couldn’t eat it. So it was money “wasted” and hurt feelings over something I didn’t ask them to do.

                1. LKW*

                  Right? I’m not observant but I definitely understand kashrut and halal rules. People get so bent out of shape when they try to help but don’t take 10 minutes to actually check with someone who can quickly explain “no, removing the cheese from the turkey sandwich does not make it kosher”.

                2. curly sue*

                  I don’t keep nearly as strictly now as I did when I was Orthodox, and I would happily eat a Domino’s veggie pizza. Non-kosher kitchen prep is out of sight out of mind, but I won’t eat visible milk and meat mixed, or pork. Maybe one is technically as bad as the other, but it feels different on an essential level. Depends on the Jews you work with!

                  (I moved from a very large, very Jewish city to a small one with all of two synagogues. I asked the president of the Orthodox shul what the major difference was between the congregations, and he told me “about three more people at the [Orthodox shul] keep kosher.” It’s adjust or go vegan out here, alas.)

      3. JamieS*

        That’s basically what my work does. Usually an email is sent out with a blurb explaining the holiday typically with some trivia and lunch is brought in. We also have a “multi-culture week” (not the actual title).

    3. Holly*

      I think it really depends on your office culture (like, will the party planning committee accuse you of declaring war on Christmas?) But I’m sure non-Christians in your office may appreciate (even if it’s eyerolly and obviously majority a Christmas party) calling it a holiday party and featuring items from other traditions as well.

      I’m in a very liberal city in a government office so we have a very PC “Year End” party and can’t even refer to it being for holidays or have holiday symbolism. It gets tons of tongue-in-cheek commentary (which is often hilarious) because people *know* what it is, but it still works – I am not asking you to propose your office go that far, just sharing for context.

    4. Ask a Manager* Post author

      I have such mixed feelings on this. I agree that it’s silly to call it a holiday party when we all know what it is, and Hanukkah isn’t a major Jewish holiday, and the attempts to treat it as one are weird (to say nothing of things that are outright offensive, like Hanukkah ornaments on a Christmas tree). That said, there’s also something alienating about an office that purports to be inclusive having a Christmas party. I mean, I have no problem attending a Christmas party socially — it’s not my holiday but I’m happy to celebrate friends’ holiday with them. But when it’s an office party, there’s a lot more meaning and baggage.

      1. curly sue*

        I mean, given my druthers, I’d much rather an office I worked at had an early New Year’s party or some such, with lots of food, an early dismissal, and no Christmas tree. But if you’re going to have the tree and presents, as TGeek described, then it’s a Christmas party and IMO shouldn’t be disguised as something that it’s not.

        Maybe being forced to confront the idea that they really aren’t being inclusive will go further towards changing things than a name-change band-aid.

      2. Hiring Mgr*

        Just as an aside, I’m Jewish and don’t see Chanukah ornaments on Xmas trees as being outright offensive… If we’re (correctly) saying Chanukah isn’t a major Jewish holiday, who cares if someone hangs a dreidl on a tree? I have interfaith couple friends that do this as a sign of inclusiveness.

        1. Nacho*

          I can’t speak for Allison, but to me the offensive part is that you’re basically going Merry Christmas!!!… and also Hanukkah I guess.” Like it’s obvious to everybody involved that way more thought was put into Christmas than Haunukkah, but you still added a token ornament or two because you feel like you have to.

        2. curly sue*

          For me it’s because of the misunderstanding it presents. Hanukkah is the commemoration of a war that was fought to prevent forced religious assimilation. Beyond the whole “isn’t Hanukkah just Jewish Christmas” conversation I end up having with people at least twice every winter, I find it offensive to see icons of this particular holiday assimilated into someone else’s religious observance. The specific irony is just too, too much.

        3. Jasnah*

          I think it’s cool to do it at home (hey both our faiths coming together) but no good to do at work (woo it’s Xmas, and oh yeah, it’s Jewish Xmas so we got you a candelabra thing, eh? eh??)

    5. OyHiOh*

      Adding to the chorus. Either get rid of the tree and presents and make is a properly inclusive holiday party or just call it what it is. If you call it a holiday party, I go in with hopes that for once in my working life, a party committee and managed to realize there’s more than just Christians in the work force only to find my hopes dashed yet again. Call it a Christmas party and I can make a choice about my participation or not.

    6. Person from the Resume*

      I’m doubtful you can fix it in your office, but the solution would be for a business to have an honest to goodness secular New Year’s / Year End party. Food, drink, wishing people a happy new year. No presents or tree or carols.

      You can even have it before Christmas or after New Year’s because let’s be honest timing-wise many people are out of office starting Christmas week and including new year’s week. By the second week in January I’m ready to stop the eating and partying so I’d prefer the week before Christmas.

      1. ThursdaysGeek*

        It will be well before Christmas this year – Dec 1. But I know that people like the presents and free food. The party is fully optional and there is no problem for people who don’t attend. It just doesn’t seem like changing the name really changes anything, because it’s obviously what it is.

      2. Washi*

        Agreed. Just have a New Years party, or a winter solstice party or something like that. Free food and snowflake decorations = in, tree/presents/carols = out.

    7. BRR*

      Another Jew here. I hate when they call the December, red and green, candy cane party a holiday party and stick a menorah somewhere but I also hate when there’s no illusion of inclusion and it’s called a Christmas party. I’ve worked places with a non-calendar fiscal year and have far preferred the end of fiscal year party but I recognize that is an uphill if not impossible battle at some places. I think I’m going down on the side of calling it a holiday party but make the focus on employee appreciation.

      1. AvonLady Barksdale*

        Especially once Chanukah is over! I perform with a group that does an annual “holiday” concert and apparently our director got some vitriol because he didn’t include any Chanukah songs (which I haven’t been thrilled about, but there are very few decent choral arrangements of Chanukah music for a symphonic group, trust me, I’ve sung most of ’em). He asked me my opinion, and I told him that yes, it would be great to do some Chanukah songs, but this year is not the year because the concert will be after the holiday is over. I stopped just short of telling him I think that’s “tokenism”.

        1. BRR*

          Oh I hate that. When Hanukkah falls early or late it just feels really weird to me. Credit to my current employer who seems to mildly know about Jewish holidays and adjusts as needed.

    8. Anon for now*

      We call ours the annual all staff meeting.

      There is a gift exchange and many people wear Christmas-themed attire, but there isn’t a tree.

    9. pony tailed wonder*

      I work at a university. I would rather have a semesters end party rather than a holiday party. We have another one at the end of the Spring semester so I don’t think it would be a tough thing to do to rename and redecorate it.

      Also, I would love to have a piñata at both parties.

    10. Autumnheart*

      What about including other festival decorations including the tree and presents? A menorah, Kwanzaa symbolism, Happy New Year? Cheesy or inclusive?

    11. Very Special Librarian*

      Yeah, as a Jew, if you are going to call it a Holiday Party and have a tree, it is not a Holiday party. Maybe because I have worked at a lot of Christian organizations, a Christmas party doesn’t phase me, even one with prayer. However, I also realize that not everyone feels that way. I would recommend losing the tree and the presents and then calling it a Holiday Party.

    12. Drop Bear*

      Off topic a bit, but we offer paid leave (up to 2 days in total per annum) for people to celebrate ‘alternate’ religious/spiritual festivals. Each department does their own thing for lunches – all do Christmas and some also do lunches for non-christian festivals, but the paid leave is a whole of organisation benefit. I’ve only had one employee in all my time here ‘grumble’ about other people getting more leave (as all employees get Christmas day/Easter as paid leave even if they take other ‘religious leave’). Strangely (perhaps), his main complaint was that some people use it on the Orthodox Christmas day – he didn’t feel it was right they got ‘2 Christmases’.

      1. Drop Bear*

        I should add that Christmas lunches are held at restaurants/pubs – no prayers, singing or the like – well maybe singing after management head back to work and a good song comes on the jukebox!

    13. Girl friday*

      This is probably going to be an unpopular opinion, but I always say ‘holiday’ because there are so many atheists who view it literally as a holiday, people with messed up families who celebrate it alone, and so many other reasons that aren’t specific to religion. I think everyone’s pretty used to the decorations being universal, and I think they should be universal and include as many versions as possible- but I think the title should stay neutral.

  34. Post Interview Angst*

    So I’m over analyzing an interview situation. I had a third and final round interview yesterday, which went well and while there were some questions I think I could have answered better, I felt good about it until the very end. I wasn’t able to get a timeline on next steps from the hiring manager and when I mentioned that my references contact information might be changing on X date, he waved it off and said he’d let me know. Then he kind of rushed me out the door.

    Now, it was 5:30 PM and the interview ran long. So it could have just been end of day behavior, but it left me with a sinking feeling.

    He did say that the person I’d been coordinating all my interviews with would be in touch next week. So I guess thats kind of a timeline??

    Ugh, just tell me to stop overthinking it and none of this necessarily means anything, lol.

    1. Kaz*

      Sounds like he just wanted to get out of there and get home, and that this was information he knew he could get from you later if he needed it. I wouldn’t think it was a bad sign.

      1. Post Interview Angst*

        I’m sure you’re right. I don’t know why I let it get to me. I usually don’t. And everything else went well.

      2. Autumnheart*

        Agreed. That sounds a lot more like “Oh dang, it’s 5:30, I need to go home and let the dog out” rather than “Here’s your hat, what’s your hurry”.

      1. Post Interview Angst*

        That is a very good point! They did tell me that people are rarely there past 5:30. Logically I know it was this but I let silly anxiety get the best of me.

    4. Post Interview Angst*

      I was definitely being silly. I heard from them today and they gave me timeframe and let me know the feedback from my interview was very positive.

  35. Super Anonymous*

    In Allison’s letter in “The Cut” this week, she talked about the risk of having a long stretch of mediocre work on the resume. This struck a chord with me because I took my current job 2.5 years ago hoping to gain skills in a particular area, but that has not panned out due to circumstances beyond my control. I have not done poorly in this position, but I also feel that compared to accomplishments in previous jobs, it doesn’t look like I have accomplished as much. I am currently job seeking, but I am well aware that this process takes time. Any advice for what I can do in the meantime to show potential employers that I’m actually not mediocre?

    1. Alternative Person*

      Can you focus on a series of smaller things you achieved in that time?
      There could also be some value in explaining what happened with the job that meant you didn’t do much.

      Apart from that, is there anything you can do to improve your skills like a certification? or maybe do some volunteering?

      1. Super Anonymous*

        Thank you so much for this! I have actually been working on a library certification. I like the idea of focusing on small achievements.

    2. Ali G*

      Is there any trainings you can do in your spare time? I was unemployed/underemployed for a year while job searching and I did a lot of online tutorials in things I wanted to learn that could be valuable to future employers, including:
      Salesforce
      Online social media marketing
      website building
      non-profit management/development
      I did most of these through the adult continuing education center in my county.

      1. Super Anonymous*

        Thank You! These are great ideas for training. I especially like the Salesforce/SEO training.

    3. Mockingjay*

      You can always focus on reliability metrics. “Provided consistent on-time deliveries of the TPS report each month. Standardized the report, reducing time to complete and minimizing errors.”

      Try not to focus on what you didn’t do or attain in the position (goals). Look at what you actually did. Your current job may not be glamorous, but many employers long for steady employees with reliable output.

      1. Super Anonymous*

        I didn’t get time to comment on this yesterday, but wanted to say thanks for reminding me about the importance of being steady and reliable. This is probably one of my greatest strengths as an employee, but I usually feel like it makes me boring and middle of the road.

    4. Super Anonymous*

      Thanks for the replies! Y’all have confirmed that I am on the right track. Since I started to suspect that this job might not be for me I’ve been working on finding webinars and training in areas that I want to branch out into. I am a passionate librarian, but the job market for librarians is pretty saturated so even with professional experience it has been an uphill struggle finding jobs in that field. My previous two jobs (including this one!) have led me to realize that I have a passion for public health, so I’m working on building knowledge in that area.

  36. Jane*

    I posted last week about this company demanding a specific start date before they would extend an offer. Thanks for all the helpful replies!

    As an update, they then demanded a recent paystub and last year’s W2 to process my offer.

    I’m not off base to think that is really intrusive, am I? They’ve already confirmed my employment and checked my references.

    In any case, I’m going to decline. They just make me feel uncomfortable.

    2. The New Wanderer*

      Really sounds like they’re just blatantly getting at your current salary so they can offer that, or that plus some tiny token amount. Glad you’re going to decline because that’s a big red flag to me.

        1. Ask a Manager* Post author

          It’s not that they think you’re lying. It’s that companies that base salary offers on your current salary sometimes have policies of confirming that information, and this is how they do it. It’s BS and it’s definitely an indicator that they’re calibrating your offer based on what you’re making currently.

          1. Jane*

            Yes, they most definitely are doing that. They also had a bunch of other kind of crappy things in the hiring process, like TWO personality tests, a bunch of other BS tests that have nothing to do with the job, etc. They also chose to send me tests/requests for documents a little at a time. Meaning, first take this test. OK now take this one. Now we need you to fill out this form. Now this one. Ugh. I got so many email requests from them that I’m already sick of them and I don’t even work there!

            Too bad….I’m pretty sure that I was their top choice candidate, and this was a company I’d always really wanted to work for (so I thought!), but they’ve scared me away.

            1. Tilly*

              They sound awful. Sadly it’s proof that there’s no such thing as a dream job. Glassdoor review?

    3. Anon From Here*

      Unless they’re running some kind of background check on you I don’t understand why they need anything further than your W-4 and I-9. I would ask them what they mean by “process my offer.”

    4. BRR*

      That stinks but I think it’s awesome that you don’t have to put up with this. I hope you let them know why you’re declining.

      1. Jane*

        I’m very grateful that I don’t *need* this job, so I can choose to decline based on their antics.

        I certainly have been in situations where I couldn’t afford to be choosey, and I’m so glad that I’m not in that situation right now.

    5. Hallowflame*

      Run.
      I have never had to provide that kind of documentation to a potential employer, and I have never heard of someone having to do it outside of verifying employment. These guys are shady.

  37. This is the story of a man named Neil Fisk*

    Me plus 3 other guys from work would go out to lunch 2 or 3 times a week. On one particular day, I drove. We had lunch. As we’re leaving, one of the guys became unhappy with me over something trivial – but he made a big deal out of it, acted angry and upset, wouldn’t talk to me. The other two guys wanted no part of any of it.

    Under these circumstances, how much duty do I have to give this guy a ride back to work?

    1. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Depends on the “something trivial”. There are some circumstances where I would tell him to eff off and get a taxi, some others where I would roll my eyes and decide he’s just in a strop and drive him back. Generally, though, I think we have a responsibility to give rides back to people we drove somewhere.

      1. This is the story of a man named Neil Fisk*

        Thanks everyone!

        FYI, this happened almost 20 years ago – the recent Kavanaugh hearings inspired me to write it up :) It’s all over and done with, but I occasionally have wondered about it. I drastically simplified the story – perhaps too much? If anyone cares:

        – He was mad because he didn’t think I payed my fair share of the lunch bill. For this question, I ask that you believe me when I say that he was mistaken.

        – My car was a new-ish BMW.

        – I knew he was angry because a) he was indeed kicking pebbles and muttering and b) one of the other guys told me “Jim’s mad about the bill”.

        – Did I think he might damage my car? The thought indeed crossed my mind.

          2. This is the story of a man named Neil Fisk*

            *grin* yes, I waited – actually, all of us waited – about 15 minutes until he cooled down and I drove us all back to work. I asked the fellow who sat next to him in the back seat to keep an eye on him in case he started abusing the upholstery.

            I find it interesting that pretty much everyone here agreed about giving him a ride. Over the years, I’ve asked other people about this, and this is the first time everyone has agreed on that. In the past, other people have suggested that I should have said “okay, I’m leaving, you can come with or not” and then just left him if he couldn’t bring himself to ride with me.

            I don’t regret giving him a ride. But the incident left me wondering where to draw the line.

    2. Meredith Brooks*

      Give him a ride home. You think it’s trivial. So take the high road – let him be mad and don’t engage in drama or games. Not giving him a ride home only adds to the issue and gives him more stuff to be angry about while also making you look petty. (Unless he’s threatening you or insulting you or some such)

      2. Annie Oakley*

        Agreed. I think you should give him a ride unless he becomes aggressive – verbal abuse, concerns of physical altercation.

        1. Nita*

          Yeah. Even if he’s in the wrong, stranding him somewhere without a car seems like a bigger over-reaction unless he’s getting aggressive. Or unless it’s within easy walking distance.

        1. Meredith Brooks*

          I just read your post above. I’m going to ignore the fact that you feel this is somehow relevant to the Kavanaugh hearing. I stand by what I said. Leaving him behind would have turned the situation into one that was a petty disagreement into a bigger issue. And it sounds like you gave him the option to accept a ride or find his own way back to work. So you both had options.

    3. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      Oddly you both sound umm… not mature.

      I’m really confused at the turn of events here… This is what I’m imagining right now.
      Guy gets mad at you for something trivial… let’s go with telling him his football team sucks. Stomps around, kicks pebbles on the ground with his toe and starts muttering under his breath, and stops talking to you , the other two guys are now looking around uncomfortably probably rolling their eyes at the you and him and you are contemplating leaving him at the restaurant.

      How long was this walk to the car? How could you even tell that he stopped talking to you, did he literally say “I’m not talking to you”? Could it have just been a pause in the conversation?

    4. Hallowflame*

      Unless he has become a danger to you, the other passengers, or himself, you need to drive him back to work. To strand him away from work during the work day could end up having some serious blow-back on you with your supervisors and peers. Take the high road and drive him back.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        I agree and to myself I would have patted myself on the back all the way to work, telling myself “clearly, I am the bigger person here”.

    6. Alianora*

      Unless you’re afraid for your safety it’s not okay to leave someone stranded because of a trivial argument.

  38. QuestionsAboutThingsandStuff*

    I’m starting a new job that I am not to keen on very soon. I took it because I had to leave a very toxic situation. So, I’m happy to be leaving toxic job but not to thrilled about new job. During my notice period I got contacted by a company I’m very interested in working with. It’s so early in the interview process to say what will happen, but I’m posting today to see if anyone else had a similar experience and wanted to know what you choose. And how it all worked out with new company and thrilled about company.

    1. motherofdragons*

      This happened to me! I had interviewed for and was offered a job that wasn’t ringing all my bells, but was Not My Toxic Crappy Job, so I took it. Then I saw a job posting for the job I REALLY wanted, and knew the hiring manager well, etc. I ended up being offered Great Job, and then had to call Not Crappy But Not Great Job and rescind my acceptance. It was awkward but they understood. I just told them something like, I was sorry to leave them in the lurch, but an unexpected opportunity that was much more in line with my expertise came up and it was the right choice for me and my family. I’ve been here 2.5 years now and really love it!

    2. Autumnheart*

      Bird in hand. You have this job already, you don’t have the Very Interesting job (yet). Apply and go through the interview process, and see how it plays out, but you may as well make hay while the sun shines. Plus, your new job might turn out to be interesting after all. Certainly plenty of Very Interesting jobs turn out to not be very interesting after all, so you never know.

      Worst case scenario, you get the Very Interesting Job and you resign new job with apologies and leave it off your resume. Plenty of companies have hired a person and laid them off a short time later, and considered it a cost of doing business. Doing the same from the employee end sometimes happens and it’s also a cost of doing business. As long as you don’t make a habit of it, it shouldn’t hurt you. And even if you don’t get the Very Interesting Job, you still keep this job and cultivate experience that makes you more attractive to Very Interesting Inc.

    3. AnotherLibrarian*

      Just know that you maybe burning a bridge in a small professional community. I had a new hire do this. Was I annoyed? Yes, yes I was. Did I understand? Yes, yes I did. However, I would never ever hire that person again. You must do what is best for you, but don’t be surprised if this is a bridge burnt with “new company.”

  39. Nervous Accountant*

    My boss talked to me this week :O For those of you who are familiar with my postings, I’ve talked about her…. anyway, I talk to her more whenever my manager is out of the office, and this was actually a nice convo! She said its unfortunate that she doesn’t work as closely with me, she groomed (2 other managers) and wants me up there as well, I’m doing a great job so far, I’ve grown a lot etc. I just stammered thanks and went about my work lol.

    A few people got promoted this week. These movements made sense, and I’m genuinely happy for those people b/c they worked hard and deserved the promotion & raise. Earlier this year I wasn’t ready, and some things happened a while ago that put me out the running, but I am NOW. And I want to do everything I can to get there. I have my mgr on board with this too.

    The incident in my last post really helped me think about a lot of things. It was a good teaching moment, for me anyway. I know on last week’s thread I was insecure and stuff, but I stopped throwing myself the pity party and decided I’m not going to be a common denominator in a sh*t sandwich. I’ve spent way too long being reflective and self aware, and I know it’s good to be s/a, but not to the extent where I’m constantly doubting myself.every.single.day. It doesn’t reflect on me if someone is disrespectful or aggressive or chauvinist. (btw, the mgr in the last week’s post–things went well this week so maybe it was all temp).

    Anyway, so I was/am mad. But I decided to channel that anger in to something else

  40. The Other Dawn*

    My company was recently acquired and my team members are starting to go on interviews. I plan to help them practice beforehand, but I have to admit I haven’t done a ton of interviewing. I’ve been reading through the archives here, so I’ve got a list of questions I’ll ask them in the practice interview.

    Something I’m curious about, because I think this will come up with at least one person: how do you as a hiring manager feel when you ask someone’s salary requirements and they answer they’re “negotiable”? I have one team member who is very likely to write this on a job application or state it in an interview, or she will state the salary she makes now, which may or may not be appropriate since she’s applying for several positions that are quite different from each other and definitely not what she’s doing now.

    If someone said “negotiable” to me, I’d probably be wondering if the candidate did any research at all, or is desperate for a job and will take anything.

    1. Is this really that bad?*

      I say “negotiable dependent on factors outside of a salary such as PTO, sick leave, etc.” and ask them for a range that they are working with.

    2. Mona Lisa*

      I usually say that my final number depends on the benefits offered in addition to the salary. I’m trying to get better about remembering to use the AAM phrasing of, “What is your range for the position?”

      My father also taught me to put “negotiable” down on applications and to say it until the offer stage, but I’m (finally) starting to take a firmer line on what I’m willing to be paid. I see where you say that it could be seen as a sign of weakness/an opening to low-ball a candidate.

    3. CM*

      I wouldn’t assume anything about the candidate who doesn’t want to disclose a range; this is a pretty awkward discussion to have and the hiring manager is the one holding all the cards. However, I might follow up and ask if they have a range in mind.

      I don’t think your team member should state the salary that she makes now unless she’s hoping to get the same salary, or the same plus a small increase, at the new job.

    4. BRR*

      On an application that’s fine. But I’m reasonable about the whole salary discussion thing. I imagine some might get turned off. Also if I NEEDed a job, I might suck it up. On the phone or in person, I wouldn’t reply negotiable. I’d ask for a range, say I’d like to learn more about the role, or give a range (I usually add depending on benefits to give me some wiggle room).

    5. Isotopes*

      Since you’re helping them practice beforehand, I would suggest that you give them scripts like the ones provided by “Is this really that bad?” and “Mona Lisa.” If I just heard “negotiable” it makes it really tough. Depending on how the company handles compensation-talk during interviews.

      Due to reading so much AAM, when I first started conducting interviews with my boss, I asked her if we were able to give the salary range, if we were asked. She said that there was no policy against it, but it “wasn’t usually done.” So I just asked if she was ok with me being prepared to give it, and she was.

      The thing is, without some kind of information from the candidate, I don’t know how to gauge whether they understand the position. If I’m hiring for a $50K/year job, and someone has a salary expectation of $100K, then obviously that’s not a match.

      I was once hiring for a $50K/year job, and a candidate had an expectation of $60K. Initially, he wasn’t going to be given an interview, but I pushed to have one, because I figured maybe we could wiggle just a little bit on salary if he was a fantastic candidate, or maybe the expectation was a bit higher than what he was ACTUALLY looking for. After the interview, we were interested in the candidate, and I suggested that providing some additional compensation information (benefits/vacation/unlimited sick time) might help to bridge the gap. And it did.

      Turns out another department had actually been eyeing the candidate and had discontinued the process when they found out about the salary expectation. And they definitely missed out, because he is a wonderful employee.

    6. Raia*

      When you get in the mock interview, you ask the salary expectation question and the candidate responds “negotiable,” i think it would be reasonable to ask the candidate to clarify what they mean in the mock interview setting. Their clarification statement or potentially lack thereof will give you something to coach them on/mold to AAM specs.

  41. Mona Lisa*

    Are personality tests/assessments deal breakers for you in a hiring process?

    An external recruiter reached out to me about an opportunity in a city an hour-ish away from where I live, and since I’ve made it to a second phone interview, the company’s internal recruiter sent me their “assessments.” The external recruiter thought this was an assignment in the system I work, but it’s actually a personality test and a handwriting assessment, which I think is odd. It took me about an hour to complete both in advance of the phone call today, but I’m thinking this throws up some yellow flags on a job I wasn’t totally sold on anyway.

    1. LQ*

      If I loved everything else about the job and I didn’t think the person who was hiring me was All In on them I’d continue. But if I already wasn’t entirely sold, or if the boss seemed All In (someone who assigns jobs/duties/promotions based on the results) then I’d be out. I think it’s totally a yellow flag and absolutely a reason to drop it off your radar.

    2. Jack Be Nimble*

      I’d withdraw from the process, but I’m a bit of a wonk when it comes to personality tests (I used to work in research psychology and have low opinions of their validity).

    3. Kathenus*

      I didn’t love them when I was an applicant, and I personally ignore them when I’m hiring, even though my facility uses them. Some people find them useful, I don’t personally so I just don’t pay attention to that part of the application packet.

    4. DaniCalifornia*

      It depends on how much time it is and what kind. The Indeed ones are kind of a joke. I’m a professional admin so I can understand they’d want to know if I can type/excel/word/etc. But the questions are so vague and every office has their own way of doing things. We tested a few out when hiring (sent to a coworker who “applied”) and some of the stuff we just didn’t care about.

      I also did one for a big real estate agency recently and it took about an hour and felt like a waste of time. Then in the interview we spent TWO HOURS going over the results and I had to agree with a scored number and if it wasn’t a 10 they ask you why it wasn’t a 10 and what could make the job a 10. While I appreciate that they want to make sure someone is a good fit and understands the role it felt useless when I didn’t get the job because they thought I wouldn’t like it (don’t I get some say in that?) and when they offered me a lead on a different role I got no follow up.

        1. Mona Lisa*

          Now I wish I had! It required me to write at least 10 lines (each, print and cursive), which was a sizable amount given my small print, detailing my ideal work environment.

          I’m not sure this is a good time for me to switch employers (I’m 7 months pregnant) so I was mostly doing this for the practice and to get a feel for how much companies might be willing to pay me when I start seriously looking during my maternity leave. Given the low stakes I have for this follow-up interview, I might ask the director today how these personality tests factor into their hiring decisions and if he can give me any color on them.

      2. General Ginger*

        I’ve also had to do one recently. I don’t like it one bit, but I’m in a beggars can’t be choosers state of the job search.

    6. Master Bean Counter*

      The last personality test I took came back with the results of, “This person is holding back on answers to this test.”
      Well yeah, It wasn’t anonymous and the guy I worked for who insisted I take the stupid thing was ….well many not nice to say things.

    7. AshK434*

      Yes they’re deal breakers for me and that’s only because I’ve NEVER made it passed the assessments (probably has to do with me being an introvert I think). It also makes me think that the companies using them want a homogenous workforce with the same personality type.

    8. restingbutchface*

      Yeah, that would be a no for me. Mainly because I know answering honestly would rule me out. And handwriting sample? Is this interview scheduled for 1945? There are so few jobs where handwriting would be a skill now (and I would fail all of them due to writing like a serial killer).

      I dunno, for *me* it would have to be a perfect role with a manager who wasn’t that invested in the results. Overreliance on those sorts of tests suggests to me a business where decision making is out-sourced.

    9. Jasnah*

      In my area personality/”fit” tests are common. But I’ve never had to do a handwriting assessment. That stuff is really odd, and I’d want to know how results of a scientifically-unproven test are going to factor into my new job.

  42. Fake Old Converse Shoes (not in the US)*

    Project change update: this week my boss texted me something like “I’m really trying to find your replacement. Sorry about that.”
    Sigh.

  43. Nacho*

    Wanted to get your guys opinion on whether or not this is rude:

    I work level 2 customer service, basically answering questions for the agents who actually talk to customers, and doing stuff we don’t trust them to handle. The other day, one of the agents I was helping told me he was glad I was doing better, because the last time he’d called it sounded like I was having a bad day. I don’t especially like my job at the moment, and maybe I’m not doing a perfect job of keeping that out of my voice when I’m talking to my co-workers, but am I the only one who thinks that this really isn’t something you should comment on to a co-worker? Or am I just blowing this out of proportion?

    1. Four lights*

      It would be better for them not to comment, but I don’t think it’s ridiculously rude. (As long as it’s more or less a one time thing.)

    2. Former Retail Manager*

      I think I see this differently than you do…..you seem to think that co-worker knows you hate your job. If that isn’t possible, he is likely just assuming you had an off/bad day when he spoke to you previously and was trying to be polite/offer friendly support, or if you make your internal call reps sit there in silence while you do whatever you don’t trust them to do, he could have just been trying to make polite conversation.

      Or alternatively, if your co-worker somehow knows that you really do hate your job, be grateful that he said something, because he has essentially given you a heads up. If it’s obvious to him how unhappy your are, it’s probably obvious to others as well. If you need to keep this job right now, he could be doing you a favor.

      1. Trinity Beeper*

        +1. I have a coworker who regularly asks “Hey Trinity Beeper, how are you doing?” Since I don’t particularly like my job, I used to be immediately suspicious that she could tell I was unhappy. Then I just realized that she’s a kind person who asks how you’re doing sometimes.

    3. Cat Fan*

      I think instead of being concerned with your coworker mentioning your mood to you, you should be more concerned about how you are coming off to your co-workers. If it was so obvious to your coworker that you were having a bad day, maybe you need to reign that in a bit.

    4. fposte*

      I think you may have gotten some very kindly framed feedback there. He reasonably didn’t want to bring up the issue when you seemed to be less resilient and mentioned it to you subsequently. There may be other ways for him to do it, but I don’t think this is out of line.

    5. LKW*

      Sounds like they are actually concerned about your well being. They weren’t intrusive.

      People looking out for one another is a good thing.

    6. Autumnheart*

      I wouldn’t consider that kind of comment rude. I would take it as a colleague wondering if I’m doing all right.

      And I would agree that if other people are noticing, then it might be time to put a bigger lid on it, if for no other reason than the fact that negativity tends to be contagious, and there’s no point in making your already unliked job be more of a downer. This isn’t to say that you shouldn’t have feelings at work, just that if there are things that you can do to make it more tolerable for you, now is the time to start integrating them into your workday.

    7. LilySparrow*

      I don’t think it’s rude, it sounds kind. I would take it to mean that you’re doing a good job of staying positive most of the time, so that the difference last time he spoke with you stood out and was noticeable.

      But I also agree with Autumnheart that it’s a good idea to be proactive about things that help you feel positive.

  44. Seifer*

    They just did a massive layoff yesterday. First, they retracted an offer. Then it was one guy. Then another. Then rumors started flying. We lost eight people out of an office of maybe twenty-five. My boss and I were basically haunted all day yesterday. I’ve gone through that before, and I’ve lived with someone who’s been laid off and I didn’t want any of my coworkers to go through that. He had to tell someone they were laid off for the first time in his career. It’s been… an awful week.

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      My worst work day ever was a layoff day. It was unnerving to sit there trying to work when managers were walking around and tapping people on the shoulder to take them into a conference room and you knew what was happening (they’d announced earlier in the week that layoffs were coming).

      Take it easy this weekend.

      1. Seifer*

        I was stuck in a meeting when it happened. We knew it was coming, one of the guys being laid off got advance notice (of a few days, but still) and he was pissed enough to tell everyone in our division. I stepped out briefly to say goodbye to him, and then my boss stepped out to let someone else go. All the while, I’m sitting in this meeting, sitting next to one of the execs while he waxed poetic about how we were going to make profit. I wanted to throw up on his shoes. I’m glad I wasn’t laid off, but man, it was messed up how it all went down.

      1. Seifer*

        Thank you. My boss thankfully was understanding when I told him that the rest of us were not likely to get anything done in the afternoon. Some of the other managers were bitter, so he felt that he couldn’t let us go, but if we just puttered around all afternoon, he wouldn’t be upset.

    3. Ann O'Nemity*

      I’m so sorry. Are you safe now, or are the layoffs continuing?

      Also, has anyone ever seen a company do layoffs well? I can’t think of an example.

      1. Seifer*

        I’m safe now, thank you. My boss and I are the only ones in the office that can do what we do, so it hasn’t affected my workload all that much since I was overworked to begin with. I suppose it just means that there’s no relief in sight for us, but we figured this was the new normal a while ago. I honestly don’t know if a company has ever done layoffs well, tbh. If you give too much notice, you get people flinching every time an HR person breathes in their general direction. If you do it suddenly, people are left reeling.

      2. A-nony-nony!*

        I don’t think layoffs can ever truly be handled well, but a good severance can go a long way to making it not-as-awful. My company does at least do the severance part well. Quite generous in that regard.

      3. Hallowflame*

        My mom’s company (large oil and gas company, so they staff up and shrink down with the oil market) goes through several phases of voluntary separation before resorting to layoffs. They start by asking for volunteers for early retirement, which allows people to keep their employee benefits. Then they offer some pretty generous severance packages to the volunteers who aren’t eligible for retirement. Then they ask for volunteers to take a less generous, but still decent, severance package. By the time they get through the volunteers, they don’t usually have to lay a lot of people off.

      4. periwinkle*

        My company, and particularly my team. Layoffs are not uncommon here, unfortunately; we’ve had two sets in my division since I started 5 years ago.

        1. There’s a general heads up in advance (no surprise layoffs)
        2. Management really does try to make cuts by closing open reqs first.
        3. At least on my team, management schedules individual meetings with everyone – you learn in private if you’re getting a notice or not, and you have this opportunity to ask questions. There’s no public announcement of who is getting laid off so we’ve been asked to be sensitive about discussing the layoffs. (those who want to announce it do so on their own timeline, some people choose to say nothing)
        4. 60-day notice so you have time to look for internal roles as well as external ones, severance if you leave the organization, and you get the check whether you stay 60 days or 60 minutes after the clock starts on your notice.

        It still sucks of course, and my team has lost some talented people. But it still beats the “public tap on the shoulder/shut down your access immediately” scenario.

      5. Autumnheart*

        Yes. I’m at a company that once did a layoff terribly, but their current process is about as good as it can be. They try to give at least 30 days’ notice, prioritize people for open internal positions that they might qualify for, and provide severance and references.

        The terrible one was several years ago, where they announced that an unspecified number of people were going to be laid off that day, and the news would be delivered via phone to your desk, so everyone should go to their desk and wait to see if they get a call. Then at about noon or 1pm, they announced that all the calls had been made. Needless to say, everyone’s nerves were shot all day (especially people who routinely conducted business on the phone) and the company got a lot of feedback about how disruptive the process was. To their credit, they listened and never performed a layoff that way again.

        1. Bratmon*

          I heard a story of a company doing layoffs this way, and the office prankster started calling people to scare them.

    4. A-nony-nony!*

      Oh, you have my sympathies. My company is going through a major, major re-org and the layoffs started this week, and will continue into next week. It’s awful.

      And is a big part of why I’m interviewing for another company, after more than 15 years at this company. The layoffs, along with huge questions about what our work will look like going forward, have made me think it’s time to move (scary as it is).

    5. Nessun*

      So very sorry to hear that. I’m glad that from your replies you seem to be safe right now. Take care this weekend and try to relax & recharge. Not much you can do, unfortunately, except being genuine and human, which takes a lot out of us all.

      +1 for your username, btw! :) Take care.

  45. Meredith Brooks*

    We have a new Director. There’s something off about him. It’s almost like he’s overly solicitous to the point of being condescending. He holds the door open for the women in the office, even when it’s slightly awkward. He has a habit of touching my arm when he wants to make his presence known. (I’m a woman) I’m finding this kind of chivalry not entirely appropriate in the office, although I don’t think it’s necessarily creep behavior. It does feel like some kind of microaggression, but perhaps one that he’s ignorant of. I get the impression that he’s attempting to adopt this persona that’s about 10 years too late and doesn’t really line up with today’s standards and issues. I dunno. I’m not quite sure how I want to handle it — I’m being neutral now, but I’m starting to get angry by it, so should figure out how I want to move forward. Would love to hear thoughts

    1. Four lights*

      I wouldn’t worry too much about the door thing. I’m a female paralegal and the male attorneys hold the door for me, which is weird because biglaw culture is usually attorney’s first. But whatever. You could try to say cheerily, “Oh, that’s okay, I’ve got it!”

      The arm thing though–he might mean well, but you shouldn’t touch people. Just say, “I’d rather you not touch my arm. If you need to get my attention, please knock (or do whatever).” If he doesn’t stop, say more firmly, “Don’t touch my arm.” “I’ve asked you repeatedly not to do that.”

      1. Meredith Brooks*

        The door thing actually bothers me more than the arm thing. He will literally quicken his pace to be able to open the door. I’m a manager (who doesn’t report to him) and I just wonder if he would do the same if I were a man. But there is more to it than the arm and door thing, though I can’t really give explicit examples unless I wrote a novel’s worth of context. (Those two examples are just the most clear cut that describe his demeanor)

        1. Four lights*

          Hmm. Is there someone higher up you could mention this too, who might be able to have a word with him.

          With the door thing–I find it annoying too, especially in a business setting. He probably wouldn’t do it if you were a man, but it used to be considered polite behavior to hold the door for women and let them go first. To do otherwise would be rude. Some people still follow this, so I just decided to roll with it.

          I don’t think the arm touching thing has anything to do with politeness though.

          1. Meredith Brooks*

            If he was an older man I probably wouldn’t be as bothered by it because it would be a cultural affect that he’s holding on to. But, he’s in his 30’s and younger than me and it just feels wrong.

            Curious what you think the arm touching is about? Because I honestly don’t know why he does it. It’s definitely to make his presence known, but he could easily accomplish that by saying my name.

            1. Four lights*

              Yeah, it would make more sense if he were older, though some younger men have been trained that way as well…

              I don’t know about the arm touching. I’ve seen women do that more often. But everybody has a right not to be touched, so I don’t think there’s any problem with you telling him politely to stop, regardless of his position. And that may go for some of the other things he does too. Just because he’s in charge doesn’t necessarily mean he can do whatever he wants. A polite, “Please don’t…” “I’d prefer you do X instead of Y…” may get you the result you want. And if he flips out, or tries to blame you, you’ll get a clearer picture of what kind of person he is.

            2. Nita*

              I’d just say “Hey, this is a little awkward, but you might not realize how many people don’t like coworkers touching them to get their attention. It’s going to go over better if you knock.”

              Oh, and I hate that feeling that something is “off” about someone. It’s so hard to figure out what’s causing it, and if I’m being ridiculous or not. Sometimes I never do find out. Often I find out that the feeling was quite justified – they’re not necessarily a creep or out to cause harm, but just someone I would want to stay away from. For example, a few months ago I had to deal with a guy who gave me that slightly-off feeling right away. It was over a business matter, and he turned out to be incredibly pushy, and to have some really odd ideas about the deal we were trying to close. I had a fun time getting it across to him that due to several problems that came up based on our discussion, there will be no deal.

            3. Friday afternoon fever*

              Without knowing more, or in isolation, at best the arm-touching is thoughtless and rude—ie, he considers it appropriate and hasn’t given it another thought and just /does/ it. (Gross.)

        2. Melly*

          I totally get it. My boss is 35 years my senior. I was so uncomfortable with the many displays of benevolent sexism for at least a year. I’ve been here seven years now and our relationship has evolved to the point where I feel comfortable calling him out when he does it (while simultaneously letting him do the things if they aren’t prohibiting me from acting like a capable adult). Weirdest example: he won’t let me walk on the street side of a sidewalk, presumably shielding me from getting hit by a car?

          1. Four lights*

            I’ve heard of that. I had a coworker (35) who insisted her husband do that as well, and said that if you walk on the other side it means you’re a prostitute, and he’s, like, your pimp.

              1. Sarah*

                This one is old. Like, super old. It literally comes from having her walk on the side where the lady will be more easily defendable without her interfering with the drawing of your sword…

          2. jack*

            My dad did that with me growing up for the same reason (also getting splashed with water from a car).

          3. Bagpuss*

            I think it was more about aviding getting splashed with water (or the other liquids you might get on street s in pre-petrol car days) than about getting hit. Very old fashioned.

        3. valentine*

          The door thing actually bothers me more than the arm thing.
          I hate the door thing because not only have you decided I’m a woman, you’re now going to literally go out of your way to treat me differently because of it. Also: Why do you want to be behind me? I once went out of my way to a different door, so annoyed was I that a man I didn’t know was holding the door for a stream of women. He got mad.

          If he does it on an elevator, you can tell him the rule is last in, first out. (Also: Why do you want me to squeeze by you?) For this and the arm thing, though, I would tell him during a one-on-one or the next time he does either, that it’s sexist/inappropriate, but holding the door open behind him or saying your name/knocking would be fine.

    2. Psyche*

      Well if you don’t want to confront him about it (which can be very awkward with the power imbalance) then you could try making it more disruptive when he does it. Like if he holds the door open for you, insist that he go first even if there is back and forth of “you go first” or you can start holding the door for him if he is behind you and insist. When he touches your arm to get your attention, visibly startle. If he keeps doing it you can tell him that you startle easily and would rather he not touch you to get your attention. If you see him reaching out, step back or block him with your hand. None of this accuses him of being creepy or doing something wrong but it makes it clear that you are uncomfortable.

      1. Meredith Brooks*

        I did try insisting he go through the door and it became incredibly awkward. I suppose I could suck it up and continue making it incredibly awkward until he walks through the door first.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Yeah, you may have to do that.

          It sounds like he does not know norms and you are picking up on his uncertainty/awkwardness about what he does not know. Do remember that it is his awkwardness not yours, you are fine here you know how you handle things such as doors.

          Which ever way you go on this one decide to be consistent. Either consistently tell him no racing for the door OR consistently ignore it.

          I would treat it as nervousness until I knew for certain it was a larger problem. I had a boss who turned out to be a fine human being and a fine boss. But he was one nervous dude when he started. I ignored the nervousness and just went situation by situation. Overall, I would say something like “X is better than Y because [reasons].” I used a conversational, matter of fact way of speaking.
          Years later he gave me a really great reference.

    3. Holly*

      I really wouldn’t move forward – considering it’s the Director and the power imbalance, I think a gentle touch on the arm or holding doors open is not really a huge issue, and likewise saying “oh, no please, after you” and subtly withdrawing from the arm touch (or maybe acting in surprise and saying, oh that scared me! or something, so it’s not communicating that you found it offensive?) would be fine too.

      1. Friday afternoon fever*

        You shouldn’t touch people unless you know they’re OK with it, especially if you’re in a position of power over them, especially especially at work. I think it’s unlikely the director is thinking of it this way, but inappropriate physical contact is a spectrum and unwanted arm-touching is on it.

        You don’t need to be subtle. You can be direct and polite and say something like “I prefer not to be touched.” If he gets upset at you for saying that, or if he doesn’t stop, then you have a bigger problem.

        The door-holding is awkward, but harder to address.

    4. Meredith Brooks*

      I feel it’s important to also point out that the Director is in his 30’s and several years younger than me. (I’m not sure if that makes me more or less sensitive to it, but for the sake of painting an accurate picture I felt it was important to mention.)

      1. Melly*

        Okay, I wrote my comment before I saw this. Yeah, that’s weird. My boss is acting like a father figure. This Director is lacking in social awareness. I would be creeped out, probably.

    5. CM*

      I know just what you mean — and it’s frustrating not to be able to pinpoint it in a way that makes people say, “Oh, yes, that’s a problem.”

      In a situation with less heavy-handed chivalry, I’ve ignored it but have been extra business-like to compensate — no smiles, no chitchat, all business. No saying thank you when he does something like hold the door, just walk through it. That’s been pretty effective for me because it changes the dynamic where he is sort of taking care of you and attending to your needs and you are supposed to appreciate it and be grateful.

    6. BluntBunny*

      Don’t want to be negative but holding the door open for females can be an excuse to check them out from behind.

      1. Girl friday*

        If he holds the door open for you, you do have a few options. You can do what someone his age would do, which is walk up behind him and use your left hand to hold the door open higher than he is holding it, with a smile, until he walks through the door. You could always have something in your hand and drop it as you approach. Crouch down to pick it up, if he’s truly a chivalrous person, he’ll leave the door-holding to help you pick up whatever and then you can redistribute how you go through the door together.
        That will tell you a lot about him, because it’s possible he is a nice person.

        Your examples are so extreme, it’s like you’re talking about two different people. So to address that shoulder checking, if he’s really obnoxious, as you approach him, you can just say, “Oh darn, my keys (phone or whatever),” and go back in the opposite direction or step into the restroom.
        When he touches your arm, put your hand so that it’s going to be under his hand on your arm. When he touches your hand instead, just lift up your hand and pivot him away. Practice with someone else, it’s a very easy thing to master. At the same time say, “I really prefer not to be touched like that. I’m sure you understand.” You really are in full command of your time and how you move through space. People comment that you shouldn’t have to do these things, but when you act to empower yourself, you change the situation. That changes how the next situation will go. And if he treats it like a game, document and have him fired because that man is not healthy. He should respond respectfully.

  46. Kaz*

    Has anyone switched from another field into a business analyst type role? I don’t have a business degree, but I’ve worked with several college students who didn’t have one either and they got hired right out of school into a BA role. I’m really good at “here’s the problem, how do we figure out how to solve it” situations and have lots of healthcare field experience, and I think I’d be good at the job, but I’m concerned no one will take me seriously because I’ve spent 13 years in a fairly niche healthcare field and now I’m trying to totally switch tracks.

    1. LQ*

      You could certainly look into the IIBA certification and that might help. If you aim for BA within healthcare I’d guess you’d have a lot of luck. That’s a lot of transferable skill that could set you up. Get a good understanding of all the process flows to be able to talk about and draw them out.

    2. Grapey*

      Having 13 years experience is what would absolutely make you stand out more. I work with fresh out of school BA’s and they tend to be less than competent/need hand holding because they haven’t been here long enough to know how the business actually works. Either that or they’re used to projects with a timespan of weeks/months, not years.

      The best BAs I’ve worked with have knowledge of both “what are the current big picture goals” AND “but this is how we’ve done it forever” and where exactly in the business those create friction together.

    3. SQL Coder Cat*

      I have! I was a call center team support (ie the lowest possible rung of ‘management’). I spent a lot of time building a functional resume that focused on my problem solving and research skills. It took about six months of interviews before I landed my first business analyst position, in a totally different field (higher education). Even though I was only at that job for two and a half years, when the job went from Great Job to Toxic Job and I started job searching again, I updated my functional resume and got interviews with every place I applied to (and more than one offer). None of the people I interviewed with when first switching were concerned about the fact that I didn’t have any previous analyst roles- they were more interested in the transferrable skills I had gained.

      Good luck!

    4. My job is epic!!!*

      Yes, I am a nurse and moved into an analyst position with a hospital information systems. I specially support the EMR for multiple specialties. My department has all kinds of clinical people that have moved it the role.

  47. Anon for this*

    Alright, I know that several commenters have mentioned dealing with IBD at work and I am hoping for some help. How do you handle your symptoms at work? My doctors are working on figuring out the best medications, but right now nothing is helping and it is severely impacting my ability to be productive.

      1. fposte*

        Yup. Also heating pads/hot water bottles, if they help for you. And when you need to go to the bathroom, just go and don’t worry about what people think.

        I also run out of gas really early in the day when I’m in a flare. If that’s you too, consider intermittent FMLA to leave earlier. If you have a work from home option, explore that as well.

        1. Anon for this*

          Unfortunately work from home is not an option. If it were it would be perfect. Imodium has been a lifesaver. It is the only thing so far that has done anything.

          1. fposte*

            Have you tried Enteragam at all? I’ve actually ended up on Lotronex, which works great for me, but is very heavily scrutinized right now; Enteragam is very safe and most doctors should be able to prescribe it for you (Lotronex your doctor needs to be specially approved for).

    2. ThankYouRoman*

      Imodium and remembering that most people aren’t tracking your potty breaks helps. Unless you’ve got one of the devil coworkers who do track them, my response is a crass one in that situation.

    3. Owler*

      Fiber tablets, Lomotil in place of Imodium (similar effect, but my body does better with it), and a good morning routine to, ahem, clear the pipes. Also, a lot of self care… Epsom baths, meditation or yoga, patience with myself.

      When it was really bad and food was a trigger, I would pace my eating to maximize my workday. FODMAPS diet seemed to help, as did the fiber tablets with a glass of water about 20minutes before each meal. (Past tense because I got rid of the colon and have a J-pouch now.)

      It sucks. Be kind to yourself.

    4. UCAnonny*

      If working at home is out, heating pads and not worrying about what people think about your bathroom habits are the best practical.

      Imodium isn’t possible for everyone (I’ve been strongly advised against it because I have UC and it can make bad flares tip over into dangerous things), but codeine preparations can provide similar, ahem, side-effects :-D So if you need pain relief, a low-dose acetaminophen-codeine combo might be a good solution rather than acetaminophen alone or an NSAID (definitely no NSAIDs).

      If your symptoms are worse in the morning (they are for a lot of us), can you get your hours changed to start after things have settled a bit?

  48. LQ*

    I’m so endlessly frustrated with our procurement process. We are going to run out of money for a big vendor today (and I asked them to make it crystal clear that they can’t work without a contract and that will create a delay in the project, they’ve been great and totally got that I needed this as a tool to make the contract actually happen). I have a list of about 10 procurements and I can’t get any of them underway. It’s now up to 4 months to get a contract renewed that they knew was going to expire (um, a year ago because it’s an annual contract) and they haven’t been able to do it so we are working under a contract violation.

    I’m so beyond frustrated at this point. We want to buy things, why can’t we buy things. We have money. We want to spend money and they just won’t let us.

    1. A-No*

      I’m on the other side – there is no money but I have to buy things to keep work so we can make money. It’s constantly picking and choosing what we REALLY need and what will cost the absolute minimum to make. I have to prepare an argument and a cost analysis to purchase literally anything over $200 and its garbage. I feel like a child asking parent for a candy at the store all the time and then I get scolded as the guys are going home early as there’s no work but somehow I’m supposed to make things appear out of no where for free.

    2. Friday afternoon fever*

      When you say you can’t get them underway, what’s the holdup? Who is they? What’s your position in relation to them and do you have any support higher up?

  49. T3k*

    I got an interview coming up next week, but not sure what to wear. It’s a tech. assistant position but with a university. Is jeans ok or should I go with pantsuits? There will be walking if that matters (sounds like they give a mini tour during the interview). Thanks!

    1. Four lights*

      I wouldn’t wear jeans. I know that will probably be ok when you start working, but it’s better to dress up for the interview.

    2. Psyche*

      Generally, try to go a step up from what you would wear day to day on the job. So if you would wear jeans, go with khakis or dress pants with a nice shirt. You probably don’t need to go full blown suit, but when in doubt, suit is usually a safe choice unless it is a very physical job.

    4. Laura H.*

      Business casual at minimum (nice modest shirt, nice pants/ skirt- but stuff that’s easy to walk in if you need to)

    5. Jane*

      No jeans, but you probably don’t have to go full-on suit. If you don’t have anything in between those things, go with the suit.

    6. Grapey*

      Jeans in a very dark color with nice shoes and a blazer on top would be fine at my academic place.

    7. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      I would go with

      dark pants-either/both
      button down shirt/nice polo -man blouse or dressy t-shirt + cardigan -woman
      polished dressy shoes -either/both

    8. OhGee*

      Dress up and wear comfortable shoes. Everybody understands that people dress more formally for an interview than may fit the standards of the office.

    9. T3k*

      Thanks for all the responses! So pantsuit it is then (I don’t have anything between, the closest would be some dark, almost black jeans I suppose but rather go more for the pants than jeans by the sounds of it).

      1. Autumnheart*

        You might not have time for this interview, but I suggest hitting up Goodwill for some inexpensive dress pants that will be good interview pants. Especially this time of year, when people are cleaning out closets and donating. Also consider hitting up GW right after the holidays. You can often find new-with-tags items that people bought and never wore.

        There’s also no reason you need to wear the blazer half of the pantsuit. You can carry it and wear a nice blouse that goes with the pants.

        1. T3k*

          Oh didn’t even think of that, there’s one nearby so I’ll try to drop by this weekend to check them out thanks! And yeah, I think I’ll leave the jacket part at home (but might to bring another more casual top as it’s getting cold now).

  50. JB*

    Long story short: Jane (my spouse) got fired from her job for something that really wasn’t her fault. The boss held a meeting with her immediate supervisor and explained the problems. Even though Jane followed the written policy handbook, the supervisor repeatedly told Jane that she ‘should have known’ to do things differently. The conversation basically went like this:

    Boss: “We’re upset because you did X.”
    Jane: “The policy handbook says to do X.”
    Boss: “Well, you should have known not to.”
    Supervisor: “You also did Y.”
    Jane: “You told me I could do Y.”
    Supervisor: “Well, you should have known I didn’t want you to.”

    So it eventually became clear to Jane that they had no actual interest in actual discussion and just wanted to fire her. My question is: Was there any rational response she could have given that could have changed the outcome? Or should she have just understood that logic and reason had no place in this discussion?

    1. Psyche*

      It sounds like she was not working for reasonable people. I doubt there is anything she could have said that would have changed the outcome if they were firing her for following company policy and her boss’s explicit instructions. She should file for unemployment and fight it if they try to say she was fired for cause.

    2. Holly*

      It really depends on the tone here – maybe a follow up like “Should we change the policy to reflect that?” or “What should I do next time?” would have smoothed things over if it became more of an argument. If they were just out to get rid of her anyway, that probably wouldn’t have mattered.

    3. Alternative Person*

      For your first question, probably not. Once you’re at the point where they’re essentially implying you should have read their minds, you’re pretty much done.

      I had a similar experience a few years back and couldn’t get a straight answer about why. The only conclusion was, they decided they didn’t want me around anymore and wouldn’t own it properly. They basically used an end-run-around-the-law to make it legal and that was that. The best thing to do is probably to get the paperwork/severance/unemployment stuff sorted and figure out what happens next.

    4. Meredith Brooks*

      At ToxicJob I was passed over for promotion. At the time I was told it was because I did my job, but I didn’t go “above and beyond.” Ok fine. Fast forward 6 months, I was put on a PIP. When I said that I had received no warnings, written or otherwise that my job was in jeopardy, I was told that getting passed over for promotion was a warning. In other words, I should have known they were unhappy with me. But, here’s the kicker. My boss had been passed over for the VP position. So the answer to your question is no. Some situations cannot be salvaged and the only thing one can do is hold on tight and find a soft place to land.

    5. fposte*

      This was a post-decision conversation–the outcome had already happened. Unless she had something up her sleeve like “I just landed a Boeing account worth $40 million a year to us and they’ll only work with me” it wasn’t going to be reversed.

      1. BRR*

        I hope you’re ok if I adopt “post-decision conversation.” That’s exactly what this was and they’re terrible managers. The only thing I might have tried (although it likely wouldn’t have changed anything) is asking questions as a rebuttal. Try to lead them to your conclusions but again, it was a post-decision conversation.

    6. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      I think the latter. That sucks and I don’t think she could have said or done anything to change the outcome.

      This happened to me once (luckily I didn’t get fired). I followed an SOP and things went horribly horribly wrong. I tried to fix it, running past my then boss what I was going to do… the fix made things irrevocably worse. Then my boss blasted me for this and tried to get me written up for it. I had to go to the great grand boss to tell him my side of the story. Luckily she was told that she couldn’t write me up, but I figured it was only a matter of time before she found something to get me on. Once again, luckily, I wasn’t the only person this was happening to on the team and we did the band together thing and asked to be reassigned. It actually worked, because as it turns out she was on a performance plan and had made false accusations of sexual harassment about our grand boss.

    7. LKW*

      Logic and reason had nothing to do with it. The essentially said Policy doesn’t matter while simultaneously demanding that she have ESP.

      They wanted her out for reasons that likely have nothing to do with performance.

    8. This is the story of a man named Neil Fisk*

      Their minds were made up. I don’t think there’s anything she could have said to alter the outcome.

      I know that it’s a lot easier for me to sit here and ponder it than it was for her to deal with it in real-time, but if I was really on my game, I might have tried to shame them into at least telling me their real motivation, ala: “Okay, gentlemen. What’s really going on here?” And if they didn’t react, maybe something like “We’ve worked together for N years, and now today you want to fire me and you’re telling me a story that we all know is bullshit, and neither of you has the stones to tell me the truth. I thought you were better than that – but it turns out I was wrong. You should be ashamed of yourselves.”

      Again, I know I’m playing Monday Morning Quarterback, and not everyone can shift into “Indignant” mode so easily. But it’s the only response I can think of that might have gotten a reaction out of them.

    9. Not So NewReader*

      Just my experience in life, but watch out for people who use the expression “you should have known”. Bullies and abusers seem quite comfy with the phrase and pull it out a lot. Normal people very seldom use the phrase because they don’t need to. They realize there are limits to everyone’s knowledge pool and even common sense things can escape us under the right circumstances.

      Tell your wife she has done well to be shed of those people.

  51. Novemberman*

    The short of it: how does one figure out what industries/jobs are a good match for one’s skills?

    Long of it: I’m in a dead-end job in an industry/company that’s in a big slowdown and unlikely to ever pick back up. I’ve been here for 10 years. I got the job mostly based on my degree (BS in Accounting), but the work turned out to be only tangentially related to the degree (Inventory Control Specialist, eventually promoted to Inventory Control Manager, but it’s a small business, so the job is a little bit of everything). After a decade, I’m ready to move on, but I have no idea where to look, or what sort of other work my skills would translate well to. I’ve done the StrengthQuest type assessments, and haven’t found them particularly helpful, but is there some sort of resource where you can essentially plug in “I’ve done this” and get a “you should try that”? Should I talk to a career coach? A recruiter?

    1. OtterB*

      You might be able to find something by looking at O*Net at http://www.onetonline.org It offers the ability to look for occupations by skills or work activities. Their definitions of the skills and work activities are pretty abstract, so you might have trouble mapping them to things you’ve done. But it’s worth looking at.

    2. OtterB*

      You might try looking at O*Net at http://www.onetonline.org You can search for occupations or industries by skills or work activities. Their definitions of skills and work activities are pretty abstract, so you might have trouble mapping them to your actual experience. But worth browsing around for ideas.

    3. OtterB*

      Oops. I will have a duplicate show up here. I commented, and when it didn’t show up thought I had switched windows without hitting “submit,” so sent it again. But I forgot it would go to moderation because of a link.

    4. CupcakeCounter*

      Manufacturing companies are always looking for people with accounting and inventory experience. Look for cost accountant or product accountant roles if you like what you do.

      1. Novemberman*

        I don’t exactly have accounting experience, though, more like accounting-adjacent. It looks like anything for product/cost accountant roles requires specifically accounting experience.

    5. M. Albertine*

      Take a look at job descriptions for Operations jobs. Depending on the size/industry of the company with the job opening, Operations can cover a wide variety of duties, but I think you should be able to find something that’s next logical step for your career.

  52. Anon anony*

    How do you not feel discouraged in a male-dominated workplace or field? I feel looked down upon and disregarded. Not by all of the men, but some. One guy cuts me off whenever I speak. Even my boss has his moments, but he does not act that way with the men. Maybe it has nothing to do with gender, but I don’t like this feeling.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      Do you have any male allies at work? It’s great to be able to speak up for yourself, but most sexist men listen more to other men. So your “Hey, don’t interrupt me” is far more likely to be met with “Calm down, little lady” than one of your male co-workers saying “Why don’t you let her finish, dude?” Maybe you can get some other people to notice, and if they say “That sucks. What can we do?” you can offer some suggestions for how they can help make the place a little less toxic for you.

      2. JB*

        Yep. You have to assert your boundaries and enforce them. If they think you come off as bitchy or crabby, that’s their problem.

    3. Alternative Person*

      I look at them like they look at me (I practiced staring with cats as a child and so can look at them for quite a while without blinking).

      I also do a pretty good impression of someone who doesn’t care about their opinion of me which really helps in discussions, I can side-step personal slights and keep on the professional issue at hand which has probably saved me quite a bit of trouble.

    4. nice going angelica*

      Have a text chain with my raddest lady friends where we make fun of all of the men who do this. Honestly, this helps me a lot.

    5. Elizabeth*

      It most likely is a gender thing, especially for the guy who cuts you off.

      I would just interrupt him right back and say, “Excuse me, I wasn’t finished.”

      Also, make sure you don’t apologize too much for no reason–that’s something women tend to do when they feel insecure. Mel Robbins (my favorite motivational speaker) suggests replacing “I’m sorry” with “thank you.”

      So, if you arrive to a meeting, don’t say “I’m sorry to keep you waiting,” but do say, “Thank you for waiting.”

      Or, if you’d like to share your thoughts or ask a question, don’t say, “I’m sorry for asking, but I wonder…” but do say, “Thank you for letting me ask this, but I wonder…”

      When you use the words “I’m sorry” when you actually have nothing to be sorry for, you are relinquishing your own power. So just make sure you don’t do that.

      1. Queen of Cans and Jars*

        When you use the words “I’m sorry” when you actually have nothing to be sorry for, you are relinquishing your own power.

        I really really like that!

        1. Lefty*

          And for this exact reason, I wouldn’t say “Excuse me” either… not that it’s wrong, it’s just that some will see it as the person (woman) apologizing in another way. I’ve heard the suggestion to use, “Actually, I wasn’t finished…” and have adopted it instead.

      2. Ms Cappuccino*

        It’s also a cultural thing to say sorry. I live in the UK now and they say sorry all the time for no reason.”I am sorry for asking” sounds very British. While in France, we don’t say sorry that much unless there is a good reason.
        Do you say sorry a lot in the US?

        1. Autumnheart*

          Some parts. In my Northern state we say sorry a lot. That’s what happens when you share a border with Canada. (j/k)

        2. Nessun*

          Canadian here – our whole cultural identity sometimes seems to be tied up in “I’m sorry”…that and hockey! It definitely is something I notice in the office, and I try not to say it as much myself, because it can undermine credibility with male coworkers even in this country.

    6. restingbutchface*

      I used to have this on a sticky note on my bathroom mirror when I was working in a very male dominated and macho field –

      “Remember that there are younger women watching you. Be a role model for them, make things better for them. Do what you can to be excellent”.

      I stopped thinking about the men and started thinking about the small number of women and the ones that would follow me – made it a lot easier.

    7. Lissajous*

      I had this up on my office wall on one of my sites:
      https://xkcd.com/385/

      Get allies, inside and outside to company. Have people to vent to so you can keep your sense of normal properly calibrated. And not all places are like that, but some are worse – so those allies and networks outside your are important, so you know where not to apply to.

      Mostly I’ve been lucky; I haven’t had to much of this, and when there is it’s been external, not my company – and my manager has quashed it as soon as he heard. Once was a client, who wrote something incredibly dismissive to a younger engineer on our team, also female – the sort of stuff that’s not specifically sexist, but you strongly suspect there’s an undercurrent of that behind it all. She was new, so didn’t think she could take that to the manager. I mentioned to him, he immediately had her forward the email, and he let loose. The opening line was something like “Do not ever talk to our engineers that way,” and it got better from there.
      So there are decent places out there!

  53. Nessun*

    Ranting again. I posted last week about my office’s random, no-point game of musical chairs, and today is moving day. With all the information I could glean from all the parties involved, I cleaned down and boxed up two desks and an office, and then cleaned up and unpacked an office and a workstation. The one still in boxes? My own. ARGH. The guy who said yesterday he’d be in by 8 am and moved (since today is the office-wide deadline), has not yet moved his stuff, cleaned his desk, and didn’t even get into the office until 9 am. So I’m sitting in the cafeteria, unable to do all the work that’s in my boxes. Got my laptop, but today’s DEADLINE-SPECIFIC project is paper-based. I am so very unimpressed.

    I’ve not yet approached the HR rep about an accommodation in future years for a desk against the wall, but it’s on my to-do list. But my colleague was super supportive about me trading him desks, at least for this year. I can’t work from home, unfortunately – three monitors and a broad sit-stand desk trumps my kitchen table and the laptop screen (and all the distractions of my home). Sigh. TGIF.

    2. Friday afternoon fever*

      Your office sounds like a nightmare. I’m pretty particular about my setup. Not that I care when someone moves or touches something, just that when I get comfortable with my setup I don’t want to be forced to change it. A post above asked about hills you’d die on and hotdesking is definitely one of mine.

      Also—you have to hotdesk with a sit/stand desk and 3 monitors???

      That’s absurd. Can you figure out how much time it wastes every time you move and present that to your manager along with how much work you could have gotten done if you just had a normal desk?

      This only works if your managers aren’t insane.

  54. Full Becky*

    What are your strategies for letting go when you are full BEC *about a coworker?

    Coworker Arya misses a ton of work. On a full work day (salaried, exempt professional) she’s in the office for 7 1/2 hours. She takes a half day off at least once a week, usually because one of her kids is ill or school or daycare is closed — which are totally legit excuses, but most of us plan ahead for school breaks – but also for repairmen or other appointments. On those days, she “works from home” but often doesn’t log in to one of our work systems at all or only for an hour. These absences often coincide with our shared boss’s absences. This week, she came in for a full 6 hours one day (arriving at 10 am with no email saying she’ll be late – the only person on our team who doesn’t send those updates – and left at 4 pm), then the next day left for lunch and didn’t come back because her electric car wasn’t charged enough to get back to work. Three times this summer she left early on a Friday to “work from home” when she had previously talked about her plans to go out of town for a long weekend.

    Her absences affect my work, both because I cannot delegate work to her (I’m more senior and have a heavier workload) and because her internal clients have to look to me for help on occasion because she’s ghosted *again.* And it drives me crazy because WTH? Boss mostly ignores it except for the times her absences have directly impacted him. Then he talks to her and she goes back to working her 7 1/2 hour days for two weeks before she has another absence.

    She has other bad work habits – she often misses deadlines that she’s set for herself and she’s super defensive of any instruction, even coming up with elaborate, easily disproven lies.

    She is driving me to distraction and I need to let it go. My greatest hope is that she becomes dissatisfied with her lack of progress here (she has a super high opinion of herself and her work and thinks she should be promoted) and goes and finds another job. Until then, what do I do?

    *B!#@4 Eating Crackers for newbies – when you’re so fed up with someone, even when they do a totally normal thing you think “look at that b!#@4 eating crackers, like she owns the place.”

    1. Nacho*

      One thing I suggest is not talking to her internal clients. Tell your boss you have your own stuff to do, can’t take time to do her stuff too, and if her clients ask you for help, just tell them to wait until she comes back. I feel like you’re probably acting as a dam right now keeping those clients from making Arya’s absences directly impact your boss, because if you weren’t covering for her, those absences would start to cause actual problems.

      1. The New Wanderer*

        I agree. If you are supposed to be able to delegate to her and can’t, let your boss know you can’t also take on *her* workload of responding to her clients because you are already at max capacity. I would redirect every one of her client requests to your boss. Perhaps once he realizes the scope of the problem and that it’s not actually being resolved after his chats with her, he’ll do something more permanent.

        Or not, but make it his problem all the same.

    2. RabbitRabbit*

      In addition, take her at face value when she says she’ll be WFH (or sneaks in late/out early) and treat it like a full work day. Don’t fail to delegate stuff to her. Transfer internal clients’ questions to her.

    3. NicoleK*

      I’m currently BEC with a coworker too. I’ve vented several times about her on here so I’ll skip that piece. I don’t advocate for anyone to do this, but it’s what works for me. What I do is pull back. I don’t work as hard. I do slightly above bare minimum. I do enough to skate by. BEC coworker use to pass a lot of work to me, but she’s found a new victim so at least I don’t have to carry her load as much. I have no idea if our boss notices or care.

    4. Kathenus*

      Building on some other comments, make it your bosses problem. You said he only addresses it when it directly impacts him, so use that to your advantage. Someone calls and she’s not there, you have no idea where she is or when she’ll be in, send it to your boss. You need something from her but she’s not online and not accessible, tell your boss you can’t do it because ‘working from home’ coworker is unreachable. You are overloaded and she’s not responding so you can delegate work, tell your boss what parts are being left undone and why. Every. Single. Time.
      Then hopefully he’ll have more motivation to deal with it, since you don’t have the authority to do so directly.

    5. Ann O'Nemity*

      I’m eager to read the advice for this one. I think I’m nearly to the BEC point with one of my coworkers. Not because I have to pick up their slack, but because they are extremely prickly and unpleasant to be around. They see everything as a slight and never have a positive comment to make. I try to ignore the negativity but it wears on me.

      1. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

        Yours is a different problem. Really the only thing you can do is ignore them or call them out when you hit the breaking point.

      2. valentine*

        Give Pollyanna responses. People like this find new audiences when you fail to mirror their dreariness.

    6. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      There are subtle and not so subtle ways to get the attention this needs. I usually start with subtle and end up with direct.

      Subtle:
      Full Becky: Hey Boss, sorry I’m late with this report. I spent most of last week dealing with Arya’s clients.
      Full Becky: Boss, I was looking over that report that Arya submitted, did you notice errors A- D? Those should probably be fixed before you send them out.
      Full Becky: FYI… I spoke with Jane from Acme yesterday, she couldn’t get a hold of Arya who was working from home. Anyway, she’s upset about the delay on the Thompson project. I calmed her down a bit and let her know that someone would call her today. I tried to get in touch with Arya yesterday too, and couldn’t track her down. Not sure if you want to call Jane or if you are going to Arya do it.

      Not Subtle:
      Full Becky: Hey boss, The workload on the days when you are on PTO and Arya doesn’t come in the office is really hard to manage. She’s very unresponsive and I’m never sure what she’s getting done.
      Full Becky: Boss, this is the third client this week of Arya’s that has called me to complain. I’m going to start getting them to you from now on. I really don’t know what to tell them when they ask why their project is delayed.

      I’ve never been accused of being shy, and I’m not out to get anyone in trouble, but I also won’t cover for them.

      1. Full Becky*

        Thank you — thank all the commenters — for the input on Arya. I’m with you, Randomusername, I’ve tried subtle and not subtle. I push her clients to try calling/emailing her, I tell my boss about delays, etc. It’s not going to change. I need to let it go and find a way to just shake my head and laugh at her ever-more-creative excuses for leaving early.

    7. Autumnheart*

      Right, but BEC is about when someone is doing something completely normal, but it drives you crazy anyway. This situation isn’t BEC at all–she’s ditching work during hours she’s expected to be working, missing deadlines, telling lies, and dumping her work on you. That’s an obvious performance issue.

      I would plan all my projects accordingly so that none are delegated to her, and if clients need help when she isn’t there, tell them, “Let me look for an answer to that, and you should also email/call Manager to see if he can get ahold of Arya.” If Manager won’t address it until it impacts him directly, then let it impact him directly. Document all the projects you take on that were originally Arya’s, and use that at review time to demonstrate how you’re performing above expectations by doing this extra work.

      If it makes you feel any better, I’m in this exact position except I’m the junior and my Arya is the senior delegating a ton of her work to me. (I have the heavier workload.) I make a point to not take on anything beyond my capacity to get done, but otherwise it just makes me look great professionally in comparison. But that’s only workable as long as Manager isn’t depending on me to do 1.5 jobs so that he never has to fix the situation with the person doing .5 jobs.

  55. RabbitRabbit*

    It’s been a few weeks now since a low level exec in my department was walked out, after a conflict with a staff member. I guess they took the previous HR complaints seriously. Still, it’d be nice to get the official “so-and-so is seeking other opportunities” notification. My assumption from some of the activity is that they’re reinterviewing those who had complained. His deeply jerkish behavior had driven off one of his previous underlings – at one point he basically told another direct report to not talk to that coworker.

  56. Amber Rose*

    I have 11 more audit interviews to do today and I’m already fed up with these stupid repetitive questions.

    Also I’m thirsty and I stayed up way too late at a hockey game last night so I feel hungover even though I didn’t drink.

      1. Amber Rose*

        Colorado Avalanche vs the Calgary Flames. The Flames won it 6-5.

        I figured, its OK to be a little sleepy at work on a Friday.

  57. Labradoodle Daddy*

    I want to go to the person who hires my contracting company along with a coworker to make her aware of how our company’s overly strict sick leave/vacation policy is hurting employees. We both are experiencing heavy bleeding due to miscarriage/birth, respectively, and have used our allotted time for doctor’s appointments, being too bloody at home to move, etc. Our company has threatened both of our jobs (in the form of official writeups) while knowing what we are going through. The make the policy but will not be flexible about it. Two days ago my coworkers infant daughter had trouble breathing and she didn’t feel she could leave the office. I think it’s absurd, inflexible management and that we should be given more flexibility (particularly the NEW MOTHER, it’s appalling to me that she isn’t given any additional time). I also frankly kind of want to torpedo my company’s chance at getting their contract renewed with the hedge fund (I would be hired by whatever company replaces them).

    Has anyone ever been in this kind of scenario before?

    1. Holly*

      Do you have a manager you can talk to about this? Normally I wouldn’t recommend being too graphic or straightforward about health issues as its really not their business, but in this situation, I actually would go to that person who hired the contracting company. You say they know your situation – maybe make sure they truly know. And potentially… I don’t know your status… but you might want to consider talking to EEO if there is, or even an employment attorney to see if you would qualify for any other leave or if this would be considered disability discrimination.

      I also hope you know your health comes first and please take care of yourself. I am so sorry you’re in this situation.

      2. Labradoodle Daddy*

        They knew how bad my situation was when I managed to destroy THREE office chairs in one day. I didn’t feel like I could leave, and ended up in the hospital.

        1. Holly*

          WOW I am so sorry – does your company have HR, or is there anyone above your manager? This is a serious issue that you absolutely have standing to elevate to the highest levels.

          Also, you mentioned you took a week of FMLA – are you sure that’s all you’re entitled to? If there’s more, TAKE IT.

          2. Labradoodle Daddy*

            I also am seriously underpaid and can’t afford to take any more FMLA time, much as I’d like to :/

            1. Holly*

              I’m sorry, I totally understand that you wouldn’t trust HR. But if something happens to you – either termination or a medical problem – and you need to take any sort of action (potentially legally) you are really harming yourself by not making sure that HR has a complaint on file and is aware of how serious this is. If there’s any sort of EEO office or other reporting mechanism, please use it – if there’s any sort of union or other outside organization that can help advise you or other resource (even if it’s temporarily staying at a friend or family members while you take leave, something to help you financially so you can take it), please look into it. You need to do what’s best for you, and I don’t know your entire situation, so my advice is limited except for that this is really serious and you have standing to pursue whatever options you have.

                2. Labradoodle Daddy*

                  Physical symptoms are actually manageable right now (miscarriage happened a year and two weeks ago), it’s the emotional toll that’s starting to get to me. I work 7:30-4:00, up at 5:00 to be on a train by 6:20. It’s all getting to be a lot.

              2. Labradoodle Daddy*

                And I just don’t know how successful I’d be, because they can just say “that’s the policy, tough.” Which is what they’ve been doing so far.

                1. Holly*

                  I’d love for other readers to comment on what they recommend in that situation – my only two cents is that while there’s an immediate concern that they wouldn’t do anything, if that’s the worst that would happen (and you don’t think there’s other risk of retaliation) ensuring HR is aware may protect you in the long term. It’s a really tricky situation and I wish you the best.

        2. Holly*

          Also, I would hire a lawyer if you’re in any way able to in order to consult on this. You might be able argue constructive discharge if you’re LITERALLY BLEEDING THROUGH OFFICE CHAIRS. I don’t think firing you for this is legal, but I can’t make a determination without more facts, and ethically I cannot lawyer through the internet.

          1. fposte*

            NAL, but can you talk a little more, without advising on LD’s specific case, on why this might or might not be legal? Are you suggesting that this should have been accommodated with leave as an ADA issue? I could see that, though accommodations of leave are trickier than some. But it seems like the issue here is the quintessential American one of not getting paid enough to take FMLA–it’s not that people are forbidden from leaving when they’re bleeding or depressed, it’s that they won’t be paid and that therefore they stay. Would an ADA accommodation with leave require paid leave?

            1. Holly*

              My thought process was that suffering a miscarriage and the physical consequences of that that she describes would be considered a disability under the ADA, and she would be fired on the basis of discrimination against her disability (it’s a short term disability but severe enough IMO and arguably impacts major life activities – I do not have case law supporting this off hand). I don’t know the nature of the job or OP’s specific medical problems so I couldn’t say what a reasonable accommodation would have been. I also can’t say how the availability of FMLA (but OP choosing not to take it because she can’t afford to) impacts that argument.

              In my jurisdiction there are also much broader laws than the ADA on both the state and municipal level, and just the facts so far here (literally she has to work while she bleeds though chairs) would be really really really bad. I don’t know if LW lives in a more conservative or liberal locale or has any broader protections like exist in my jurisdiction.

              1. Labradoodle Daddy*

                I’m a receptionist at a hedge fund. You’d think I’m curing cancer with how seriously they take this crap.

    2. fposte*

      What is the leave/vacation policy? Are you in a state that gives you any more protection? Bleeding following birth may well be covered under the any relevant FMLA or pregnancy leave.

      1. Labradoodle Daddy*

        I’ve already taken a week of FMLA leave (and I’m one of those sh!theads who can’t let it go when it’s the principle of the thing)

        1. fposte*

          Can you clarify the principle? Is it that you’re penalized for taking leave you’re entitled to or that you think your company should have more paid leave available? What’s your employer’s current policy on paid leave?

          1. Labradoodle Daddy*

            That our company is punishing underpaid workers and threatening their jobs because of serious medical issues. That they’re not being flexible when there’s no good reason not to be except “THOSE ARE THE RULES”

            We’re given three vacation days (I’ve already used my vacation days for NEXT YEAR), and earn more time based on how many hours we work. We get 5 sicks days and n0 PTO.

            1. fposte*

              The reason I’m asking about the specifics is that if they had a generous allotment of paid sick time, I think it’s sad but reasonable to say they can’t keep people on once they’ve used up their, say, 25 days. But 5 sick days suuuucks.

              I can’t tell from what you say how many vacation days you earn in a year, but it’s pretty common to set vacation as an accrual of hours rather than a frontload; it sounds like your employer has split the difference. So the method isn’t something you’d have much traction fighting there. Also, most employers don’t have generalized PTO in *addition* to sick days and vacation days; it’s usually an either/or approach.

              But 5 sick days suuuucks. The average in the US is 8, which is embarrassingly low already. Getting 8 might not save you, but it would be a start for a thing to campaign for.

              (But I also would encourage you to reconsider taking FMLA if you need it. It doesn’t change the principle that that’s a ridiculously low amount of paid sick time.)

              1. Labradoodle Daddy*

                I can’t afford to take any more FMLA, my salary is so low that I don’t have any kind of savings (and neither do my coworkers).

                2. Labradoodle Daddy*

                  And then on a job search level I’m having no luck, which is doing *wonders* for my depression :/

                3. Jerry Vandesic*

                  But can you afford to lose your job? If the alternative to taking unpaid FMLA is unpaid job loss, then FMLA might be the better option.

        2. Nita*

          You’ve probably already looked at this possibility, but – can you get intermittent FMLA?

          Also, so sorry you’re dealing with that, and hope you’re better soon. What a crummy place to work for. Frankly, for a company like this, its strength in is its workers, and if it treats the workers like that, if they lose a big contract that’s nothing but natural consequences. I’d worry about where everyone else will go if you torpedo the contract, though…

          1. Labradoodle Daddy*

            I can’t afford to take any more FMLA.

            And from what I’ve heard from a coworker who was here the LAST time a staffing firm didn’t have their contract renewed, the new company just hired all the receptionists and mail service center people (even they’re not stupid enough to let go that entire group in one fell swoop, so at least there’s that).

  58. Why Do Managers Do These Things??*

    Last update on non-working coworker. He’s really “non-working” now, as in, not working here any longer. It’s so peaceful. I feel bad in one way, but not in another, if that makes any sense.

      1. Rebecca*

        Yes! I had no idea. He was let go because the PIP didn’t work, and this morning when I came in, empty desk, no personal items, just gone. And an announcement that we are hiring. There aren’t many details to share, just that he didn’t work very much this week either, I was so frustrated, and I just ignored him. Today was so peaceful, and I’m still really busy but at least I don’t have to watch him do nothing any longer.

  59. McWhadden*

    My department at work stopped doing birthday celebrations about a year ago. Which I totally approved of. I think it’s nice in theory but we added a bunch of new people and it was getting totally out of hand.

    But this week one of my bosses (deputy head of the department) sent around an email saying she was collecting money for a birthday present for our main boss (head of the department.) And we all have to give about $10-$15 for it and sign a card. It’s not just a gifts should flow down not up situation. It’s also the fact that he’s the ONLY one we will do this for now.

    I like my main boss but let’s just say gifts NEVER flow down. No holiday parties (when most departments have them), doesn’t let us leave early the day before holidays (when most departments do), we don’t do birthday celebrations anymore and when we did he was never involved and never even chipped in. And I’m fine with that. Who cares? I’m here to work. But maybe it would be less annoying if they ever came the other way.

    I’m so annoyed about it. And I’m always the first person to chip in or help organize stuff like this. So, if I don’t for this it will definitely be commented upon by the deputy.

    1. Psyche*

      Can you tell them that since your department does not celebrate birthdays anymore you do not feel comfortable participating?

    2. CM*

      That’s super annoying. The main boss should really put a stop to this.
      Any chance you could innocently say, “I didn’t know we were doing birthday celebrations again. Are we only giving gifts to the boss but not to any of the employees?”

    3. Rey*

      Wow! The deputy head definitely comes across as unaware if she didn’t realize how problematic or discouraging it would be to ask for these donations when no one else’s birthday even gets mentioned. At the very least, I would ignore the request, and if you feel comfortable, explain why it’s a bad idea.

    4. This is the story of a man named Neil Fisk*

      I have *never* understood the entire “let’s chip in to buy the boss a gift” thing. Are you supposed to be thanking him for being so kind as to have employed you for the past year? And even more incomprehensible: just what is going through the boss’ head when he receives such a gift?

      Earlier someone asked about “hills to die on.” A tough question, because if I’m supporting my family, maybe that’s more important than making any kind of “statement”. I’m not necessarily a good person to supply an answer, but I’d be sorely tempted to say “I’m sorry, I’m not participating.” But if you anticipate catching way lots of damage for that – maybe just write off the $10 as a small tax?

      BTW, it sounds like this deputy boss is trying to kiss their boss’ ass until it’s sodacracker white.

    5. WellRed*

      let them comment! At ?10 to $15 bucks per person, that’s a pretty generous gift. For someone who probably makes more than the rest of you.

    6. valentine*

      Say no. I wouldn’t trust the deputy not to present it as a personal gift from herself alone (per a comment on this site).

  60. Padawan*

    How can I make career decisions and move forward when I don’t know what I want to do?

    Little background- I’m in my midtwenties with a business degree. I currently work for a nonprofit doing a smattering of things, mostly admin, some marketing and HR. While I like elements of my job, it’s not a place I plan to stay long term and I don’t want to become a professional admin or continue to work in HR (props to Alison and anyone else who has done it- it’s hard!). I really enjoy the communications piece but don’t know if I have the skill to turn that into a full-time job. I want to be making plans to leave my organization within the next year or two, but I don’t know what would come next. I expected that I’d work for a few years and then go back to school (I love school) once I had found a niche I wanted to develop. I’m not sure that communications or marketing is that niche, and while I’m open to considering lots of opportunities, that basically brings me back to square one of the “what do I want to do with my life” question.

    I would love some input about how to make some of these big decisions when you don’t have a clear career path. At this point, if I learned about what it’s like to do something like teapot design and felt it would be a great fit, I’d happily go back to school or start over in that field. I just wish there was something I knew I wanted.

    Are there any tools or resources you’d recommend for exploring and narrowing down careers?

    Has anyone used a professional career coach and have any feedback?

    Also, if this is a question that has been asked a lot and beaten to death, please feel free to suggest posts or comment threads that might apply.

    1. Four lights*

      You could try informational interviews–asking people in certain career paths about their jobs and how they got there. An internship could get your feet wet. You could volunteer doing some communications and marketing. Unfortunately sometimes it’s trial and error.

        1. Padawan*

          Thanks for the suggestion, I’ll try check that book out this weekend. Yes, the trial and error part is a bit nerve wracking, especially if you have to invest some time and money in order to get to the trial part. Informational interviews is also a good idea. I’m thinking about talking to a graphic designer that we contract with to hear a little about how she got started and what her job looks like.

    2. Good luck*

      Are there any opportunities in your current job to try out some of these potential directions? Or you can audit a class in a field you’re interested in and see if you actually like it. I tried both of these things when I was in my 20s and trying to figure out what I wanted to do with myself. But what really helped in finding direction was that a co-worker/mentor told me one Friday that over the weekend I needed to come up with a list of five things I could see myself doing at some point in my life. (These didn’t have to be careers.) I came up with four, three of which had a lot in common. And then everything snapped into place for me.

      1. Padawan*

        What things did you come up with, or if that’s too personal, what did they have in common? I’m just curious to hear an example. I think that’s a great idea.

    3. CM*

      Think about the people you know. Think about the people whose books or articles you have read, whose talks you have listened to, or who you generally think are fascinating people.

      Do you ever think, “I wish I were like them,” or when you hear about a particular job, does it make you think, “I would love to do that”? Keep notes of these, even if they seem totally impractical as a goal for you.

      Why do you wish you were like those people? What kind of jobs do they have? You may be able to find commonalities that will help guide you. Like, maybe it’s not practical for you to become a doctor, but you realize that you are drawn to the healthcare profession. Or maybe the jobs you’re drawn to all involve dealing with organizations, not directly with individuals.

      Once you’ve thought about your interests and strengths, you can try matching those to jobs. I think at that point, informational interviews are useful.

      1. Padawan*

        Thanks for the ideas. I think I need to set aside some space to do some serious soul searching to answer those questions.

    4. Minerva McGonagall*

      Could you reach out to your college’s career center and see if they help alumni? I work with alumni all the time, and a lot of them are just like you. They could give you some career assessments or even just talk out ideas with you. Sometimes when I’m working with an alum, they just want to hear that their goal or idea isn’t completely crazy and they just need someone to listen. And depending on the office’s policy, the appointments could be low cost or free (my university does free appointments for alumni), whereas a professional career coach could be expensive.

    5. Champagne_Dreams*

      I’d probably target going into Internal Communications. Blend skill in marketing and communications with some HR knowledge (since Internal Communications always needs to keep in mind the impact the announcement is having on the employees). My company has 2 people dedicated to Internal Comms and it’s not even Fortune 500.

  61. Depression at Work*

    I work at a nonprofit where I’m enjoying my job and there’s a culture of collaboration, open communication, and feedback. I’ve been in my job for six months and asked my manager for an informal review in addition to the formal one I’ll have after a year. We went out for lunch for our conversation. He had positive things to say about my job performance and I was glad to hear that I’m hitting most of the important goals for my position.

    The other feedback he gave me was about projecting confidence and actively stepping up to be more of a leader, since this position was a promotion from my previous work and I’m in a director role and other people need to be able to trust that I can take charge of projects. I took that in, and at the end of our conversation I went with my gut feeling and told him the context for what’s been going on–that I was diagnosed with depression recently and I’m realizing it’s affecting my work. I explained that I am on medication and just recently got up to my full dose and am on the upswing. He was grateful to know that and understanding, told me he’s there to talk anytime, and committed to keeping my news confidential.

    I know I went out on a limb with this kind of honesty, and I’m grateful I work at a place where it’s safe to do that. I feel better going with my instinct to be open about what’s been going on. I told him I’m taking his feedback to heart, and that with being on my medication and seeking out a therapist, I’m committed to stepping up as a leader as I’ve been in other roles before this one. He’s a kind person who appreciated my honesty and the context, and he wants to help me succeed. Just putting it out there is helping me shift my perspective to make sure I do my best work going forward, and I’m glad I spoke up. I know that I’ll turn this around, and I’m fortunate to work where I do with such a supportive manager

    1. Say what?*

      That’s amazing! When I saw your screen name I steeled myself for a much worse posting and was pleasantly surprised by how wonderful your boss had been. The only thing I’d add, since depression can skew perception, is that I hope that you’ll cut yourself some slack if you don’t meet those goals right away. Depression makes setbacks into mountains when they’re really just uneven terrain.

  62. Excitable Sim*

    How should you deal with a smelly coworker when the reason for at least part of the smell is due to diet? My office has an Indian co-op student who smells strongly, to the point where I’ve had people make comments to me about it, and I have noticed it a few times. If it were just a slight whiff when passing him in the halls or at his desk I probably would say nothing, but today I could smell him from at least 20′ away, to the point where I was gagging at my desk. Generally I think people should be tolerant of this kind of thing, but surely there are limits. The more practical part of my brain is also thinking that, while it *shouldn’t* affect him, the reality is that have a strong body odor will probably be an issue in a Canadian office. Any thoughts?

    (I’m also not his supervisor)

    1. Four lights*

      I wouldn’t worry too much about the diet part. You may be smelling the food smells, but if you’re gagging twenty feet away it sounds like some sort of hygiene problem. Either he’s a stereotypical college guy who doesn’t wash things regularly, or I suppose it could be a culture thing.

    2. Holly*

      I think you need to tread lightly because it *is* a racial stereotype. It sounds like there’s genuinely an issue here, and you should potentially raise it with your manager especially since people are commenting about it and its affecting your work, but please write out your response and practice it before going to your manager and remember to be a little extra sensitive.

      1. Four lights*

        Fair enough, and good advice. I guess what I mean is, it’s less about particular smells (which I wouldn’t bring up) rather than the strength of the odor.

      2. Excitable Sim*

        That racial stereotype is exactly why I’m hesitant to bring it up. Here in Toronto there is a lot of racism towards the immigrant Indian population, and “smelly Indian” is one of the most common remarks of that nature.

        1. Holly*

          Yeah, maybe it would work if you emphasize the odor and not remark about ideas of where it might have come from – keep it as neutral as possible – and convey that you want to handle it sensitively.

        2. Jasnah*

          I agree, from what I’ve read/experienced it could possibly be due to the food, which means there’s not much someone could do about it short of changing their entire diet! That’s an unreasonable ask. On the one hand I think a neutral conversation could help this guy if this is really going to hold him back, but on the other hand I think your office could be more tolerant of different people smells (sometimes white westerners are said to smell like milk and cheese).

    4. restingbutchface*

      I’ve heard this stereotype before and never really understood it, if someone is showering, brushing their teeth and taking take of themselves then you shouldn’t smell what they ate – unless they’re my lactose intolerant, pizza loving coworker. I wouldn’t refer at all to it being dietary if you do decide to bring it up.

  63. AnonymousWriter*

    What can you all tell me about overcoming age discrimination when job hunting? My previous company was too small to offer FMLA, so when I developed job-stress-related health issues and a more serious illness in the summer, I resigned to address both. Now I am healthy (whew), and am in the job hunt. The kicker? I am 51, and am getting the sense that companies in my profession (accounting) only want younger workers. Besides updating my skills (I am doing a certificate in data analysis right now), any thoughts about how to appear fresh, lively & qualified?

    1. Laura H.*

      Idk if this will help/ is a good suggestion but keeping your chops (skills) in shape is likely a good idea. My grandmother is in her 80s, and retired but she still keeps her professional skills well-honed through volunteering.

    2. Boredatwork*

      I mean really this depends on a lot of things –

      What kind of accounting did you do? Where do you live (big city, rural?)? What level are you at?

      My company (fortune 200) large departments (tax, accounting, audit, ect), just went through hiring and the honest truth is we just want someone with reasonable skills, the ability to learn/apply/be analytical, and know how to use excel.

      If you have those skills, talk passionately about them. You’ll get job offers like crazy.

      1. Nervous Nellie*

        Thanks all! Boredatwork, thanks for the questions. I have a ‘brief’ resume – joined the workforce 10 years ago when hubby and I split. Long story, but anyway, I have always run all the money for retail and service businesses, only an AA degree, but can do more and learn really fast. I am versed in about a dozen software programs, and am in a very-high-cost-of-living city on the West Coast that has one of the biggest software companies. I am a single-income-household, so need the most lucrative thing I can find. I am very strong at math, symbolic logic, etc. but no formal certs for that. The data analysis course I am taking is great, but doesn’t substitute for experience, or so I have been told. Great!

        I have many of the skills you describe, but can’t get past the screening without a 4-yr degree. Any creative thoughts you have would be most welcome!

  64. Sapphire*

    Bike commuters, let’s chat! Do you ride all year round or just when the weather’s nice in your area? Any gear recommendations for winter riding?

    I’m not quite a winter rider myself (in the frozen Midwest), but I do ride for longer, and I got some wool base layers that help keep me warm on rides. I do regret getting a monthly bus pass at the start of November because it’s still nice riding weather and now I feel like I have to use the pass as much as possible.

    1. wingmaster*

      I usually ride my bike a couple times a week when the weather’s nice. Luckily, I live in California lol.
      Layers is definitely a good idea, and I’d also look into face warmers too.

    2. CatCat*

      I cycle when the weather is nice. I prefer to do it on Fridays since I can wear jeans and only have to change my shirt when I get to work. When the time change happens, I will probably bike in occasionally in the mornings then bike + bus in the evenings because it will be dark when I leave and without the bus, I’d have to go through an area that can be sketchy in the dark.

      Do the buses where you live have bike racks? Could you bike + bus? That way, you get to use up your bus pass, but still get to ride your bike.

      1. Sapphire*

        The buses and trains do have bike racks, so I could do that (though I do like riding the whole way). I’m just not sure how I feel about riding through snow, so I didn’t want to get caught without a bus pass. If I’d been able to predict the weather, I would have started the pass in the middle of the month instead of now.

    3. Princess of Pure Reason*

      I ride year round in Boston, though I’m partially remote and only in the office three days a week. My commute is 8.5 miles each way (about 45-50 minutes of riding, I’m slow), and I do have the option to drive or can take the bus. I ride 2-3 days a week, depending on my schedule. Riding is the fastest way to get to/from the office. I’ve amassed an assortment of clothing, some cycling specific and some general outdoor stuff. My favorite for cold and wet is a pair of what look like chest waders, without the built in boot. They’re waterproof and wind resistant, no chamois, and baggy enough to have room for plenty of layers underneath and keeps your core warm. I’m currently debating winter shoes, since my regular shoes + shoe covers aren’t really working even though my ride isn’t long – my toes just always freeze up and hurt. Fortunately my work has an indoor bike parking room, day lockers, and locker rooms with showers. I always end up riding with two full panniers (one with clothes/shower stuff, one with lunch/work stuff/everything else). It’s kind of a lot to drag around but I like being able to get cleaned up properly.

    4. Dr. Anonymous*

      I used to winter bike in the Midwest. A fleece balaclava with a neoprene face mask, ATV mittens, and neoprene shoe covers were my go-to winter garments. And I hung reflective gear and flashing lights all over my body.

      1. Sapphire*

        Oh yeah, agree wholeheartedly on lighting myself and my bike up as much as possible. Even in the summer I do that since I’m not a fan of getting hit.

  65. NoMoreFirstTimeCommenter*

    This one’s going to be a bit long, sorry. Names are of course not the real ones.

    I’m currently unemployed and doing temp work when I can find it, so I’m interested in anything that could lead to work. Back in August I went to a job fair and there I met Jack from Teapot Temps. He wanted to interview me, as he was new in his position and wanted to build a pool of potential candidates, and I agreed. It was a nice interview, Jack seemed to understand what kind of things I’d like to do and he said Teapot Temps even has a client who might have use for my specific skills. He promised to call me soon in any case – but he never did.

    Today I got an email from Teapot Temps. It was very generic, probably sent to everybody on their list. The point was, if I was still looking for jobs, to call Mary or Christine to schedule an interview. I replied to the email and said I just recently interviewed with Jack. Soon I got a reply from Mary, saying that there have been staff changes and though they see I’ve been interviewed, I should still call Christine (who deals with my geographical area) and schedule a new interview. I gooled Teapot Temps and saw that Jack didn’t work there anymore and there were other changes as well. Mary and Christine seemed to be completely new employees there.

    So it seems that this temp office has problems to retain staff, as Jack was probably only a few months there, and now they have two new employees in a small company. If I was applying to work at that company, this would obviously be a big red flag. But as it’s a temp office, if they offered me something it wouldn’t be at that location and I wouldn’t have much contact with the temp office in my daily work – that’s how it’s been in other temp offices. So I don’t really know if I should see this as a red flag or not? If the high turnover isn’t just bad luck and there is some kind of massive problem at Teapot Temps, would it affect me? Should I schedule the interview with Christine, and if so, should I bring this issue up at the interview – and how?

    1. Four lights*

      I say if they can get you a job, great. One way a problem office could affect you is if you get paid through them, maybe they might screw things up or something.

    2. Say what?*

      Temp agencies are kind of a weird animal. Having both been a temp and having worked with a few temp agencies to hire through, I wouldn’t say lack of a consistent contact would be a red flag for me. The way they seem to work is with a shotgun spray strategy, they reach out to as many points of contact as they can without logical targeting.
      For instance, they placed me with the business that I work for now. I was hired permanently and promoted within a year of my temp contract being up. They knew this because they were no longer receiving money for my contract. They kept calling me and saying “we have a position we’d like you to apply for.” It wasn’t logical and it was constant cold calling (every month for 2 years). I could see how that kind of thing would drive a person to quit after even a short tenure.

  66. Random Name*

    I posted a couple weeks ago about a PM who had been bad mouthing me but would never talk to me directly about any of her problems with me. She got me removed from a project due to my alleged unavailability and lack of responsiveness, and my coworker replaced me on the project. I was wondering if I should warn my coworker.

    I opted not to say anything to her because I just didn’t think there was any way for me to not look petty and catty.

    We had a call to do the official hand-off, and the nasty PM was in the meeting. At first I was annoyed. But it worked out for the best. Right at the start I said, “Hey, Coworker, I’ve been thinking about it, and I think maybe you had the better match of skills for this project all along. I have a really good understanding of System A, but all the data it touches for this project comes from System B, which I really don’t know much about. You have all that System B knowledge, plus a good understanding of the fundamentals of System A. I think it’s great that you’re joining the team and I think you’ll be a huge asset to the project.”

    It was quiet for a moment, and then co-worker said, “Wow…. thanks, Random Name!” I could tell she was really shocked that I was so complimentary of her. So that tells me that she’d gotten an earful from the nasty PM about how awful I was. And the nasty PM didn’t say a word, so I hope I made her feel about 2 inches tall.

    Fast forward a couple weeks and the nasty PM is acting all sweet and nice to me. Last week there was some high drama when another co-worker left in a blaze of glory, and she was over at my desk asking me if I knew what had happened. I didn’t, and wouldn’t have told her if I had. And yesterday she went out of her way to chat me up and ask how I was doing, like we’re BFFs at a slumber party doing each other’s hair. I just smiled and said, “I’m fine,” and went on about my day.

    1. Elizabeth*

      Wow, you did that perfectly!

      If you’d gone with your instinct and warned the coworker (which is tempting), you’d have played right into her story about how “nasty” you are. But since you decided to be sweet and helpful, her plan was foiled, hah!

      Sounds like you really knocked PM on her ass.

      1. Random Name*

        Oh, I hope so. That PM is a pot-stirrer and in my opinion not a trustworthy person at all. The added benefit of telling my co-worker all of that is that those things are all actually true. She does know a lot about System B, and the project really needs someone who understands it, how it works, and can interpret the data. I just don’t have that knowledge.

  67. Say what?*

    I need help. I work in a single-floor office building where there are 3 businesses. All of us have separate entrances but one lobby and the bathrooms for the whole building at in the lobby. One of the businesses is just a single guy filling mail-order pet perscriptions. The other business is about 8 women, and then our business has about 25 women in it.

    Here’s the issue. I keep getting complaints from a few women under me that whenever they go into the bathroom between 10 and 10:30 there is always an unflushed toilet full of poop in the women’s room. The other business that has female employees put up a sign asking people to clean up after themselves after one particularly horrendous, I don’t know how to say it, “find?” I really don’t know how to address this. I don’t think it’s a good use of time or appropriate to wait outside the restroom between 10 and 10:30 trying to see who doesn’t flush. Sending out a mass email also feels weird, especially since the non-flusher has presumably seen the signs posted in the stalls and knows that others are bothered by this. I also can’t say for sure that it’s my group over the other business’s. What would you do?

    1. KR*

      Tell the women complaining that unfortunately that’s the rub with sharing bathrooms with people and sometimes you have to flush messes that aren’t yours?

    2. Rey*

      Allison talked about this in a podcast recently (I’ll add the link below). The gist of it is, this isn’t something you can typically direct head on, so a sign might be the best option. In her experience, this can sometimes be a gross way for an unhappy employee to get back, so think about your office environment and who might be upset or if there’s a recent policy change that was met with negativity.

      1. Say what?*

        Hmm, I’ll have to look up the podcast. I always mean to listen to them but can’t at work then forget at home. Thanks for letting me know about this one!

  68. Aleta*

    I order the office supplies, and a coworker just sent me an email request “[name] Ofc supplies” and I 100% read that as “of fing course supplies” for a solid 30 seconds before I realized she meant office. I’ve never heard her swear before, in an office where occasional swearing is okay, so it really threw me for a loop!

    1. Say what?*

      Oh, when people don’t understand internet lingo and use it…

      I read a thread once where someone talked about their mother who thought that LOL was short for Lots of Love. She’d been sending it to friends and family who’d lost loved ones for months! Like “Sorry to hear about Jim’s cancer diagnosis, LOL.” Terrible… but kinda funny?

      1. Canadian Jessie*

        I once had to tell a coworker that was telling everyone at the office about the “cute” nickname her (teenage) girls were calling her what mofo stood for.
        She went home pretty mad.

        1. Autumnheart*

          Morrison Foerster? :) (Legal firm in California who’s been using “mofo” as a nickname for themselves for decades)

  69. Reluctant writer*

    I have been finding myself avoiding writing at work. I work for a teapot consulting firm, and my work is a combination of technical analysis of teapots, producing new teapot designs, and writing reports about our finding, recommendations, etc, and while not exactly the focus of my job (eg my title is not “writer”), the reports we produce are a pretty important part of the overall work of the company. Some of the things I write about are inherently interesting to me, some are not but just have to get done. The amount of writing in my workload varies, but right now is quite high and I’m finding myself procrastinating, doing every other possible task first, and wasting time online. By all accounts I’m a pretty decent writer, but it just always feels like a struggle in a way that something like a difficult data analysis does not. I’ve been trying the pomodoro method this week with some success, but could be doing better. Any advice for tackling the parts of your work that you struggle a bit with?

    1. Academic Editor*

      This is more writing specific than anything, but the advice I usually give to writing students or learners is that once you start writing, it’s easier to keep writing. So, if you are struggling to get started on one text, work on some other writing that is easier, more interesting, etc. It doesn’t have to be pretty or structurally sound; for example, when I’m struggling, I’ll start responding to emails, scrap together lines of a story or poem, draft a letter that’s never going to see the light of day – whatever kind of writing feels easy that day.
      And you can return to it as well, like bouncing between that work report and something else as the report writing gets hard or tedious.

    2. clunker*

      I’ve always found it easier when stressing about writing something to start by giving myself to write something horrible. Adding in notes like “[?????? insert explanation about how spout shape affects ideal pouring temperature??? also how does it???]”. Or I wrote a paragraph and then [??? reword all of that to sound more formal and like i know stuff]” I highly suggest picking something like ‘???’ so you can ctrl-f to find all places to revisit easily.

      I also usually find that when I’m procrastinating something, there’s a reason for it. Either other work seems more fun to me and like it “mattered” the same amount (why I skipped/procrastinated math homework in college while going above and beyond for extra credit on other projects). Or there was something specific about the work that made me anxious about doing it. Maybe I felt clueless about where to start, maybe I’ve felt pulled in too many directions with too many tasks, something prevented me from focusing on it. In most cases, giving myself permission to write something that really really sucks first has been very helpful for most of those causes, because it allows me to figure it out in the middle and delay the harder parts. And the harder parts are much less hard once you’ve listed them out.

  70. EnfysNest*

    Well, I just sort of got into a bit of a rant with a coworker. I’m the 1 woman in a department of 8 and once again, a couple of the guys down the hall were complaining about how “reports of sexual harassment are just over the top now”. Not that the harassment is over the top, mind you – the reporting of it. Specifically, they were discussing a (misleading) headline about Netflix having a policy that looking at a coworker for over 5 seconds is sexual harassment (that’s not the policy – someone at a training suggested that that length of time could be considered creepy and “possibly” harassment, but of course the headlines all say that Netflix now defines sexual harassment as a 5-second stare).

    Anyway, where I usually close the door and block them out when they’re having frustrating conversations like this, this time I came out into the hall (perhaps a bit emboldened after reading through yesterday’s thread about things people didn’t regret) and I interrupted to say very emphatically that that was not sexual harassment and how sexual harassment is a legitimate issue and that no one is making accusations based on innocently keeping eye contact for too long.

    A bit later, one of those coworkers came back to my office to try to smooth things over, but was mostly still making points about how much better things are now than they used to be and making it sound like there shouldn’t really be any reports anymore because everything’s better. Again, I emphatically spoke against that, saying that it’s still a real problem (including pointing out that his example of no one having had pinup posters in their workspaces in years was patently false, since another coworker who just retired a couple months ago had used one as his easily visible computer backdrop the entire time I’ve been here). I also pointed out how focusing on sensationalized headlines like the Netflix story minimized the real problems that still exist and how frustrating it is for that to be the only type of story I ever hear discussed on the issue. (Like, if this was balanced out by them also discussing real problems, I might be more forgiving, but the only time I ever hear them talk about harassment or discrimination is stuff like this or saying “I bet these reports are all just women who had a bad date trying to cause problems”, and I’m sick of it.) (This is right on the heels of having to defend myself against my coworkers’ Millenial-bashing yesterday, too.)

    Coworker did concede a bit on that point, but then moved back to his idea of how things are so much better than they used to be for women in work (just in general now). I agreed that things are better than they have been, but again emphasized how things are not actually fixed and there are still serious issues in how women are treated at work in general. I gave personal examples from my own personal experiences (including one that made my coworker’s eyes go wide as he asked “that was just within the last five years?!”).

    I didn’t realize that our supervisor had returned to his office next to mine, but I didn’t say anything that I regret and I don’t care that he overheard me. I feel so lonely here sometimes, especially when my coworkers start talking about current events like this. Usually I just turn on music and try to drown it out, but it’s so tiring and frustrating. And even though my coworker seemed to agree with me at the end of our conversation, as soon as he went back to his office, I could hear him whispering with another coworker (this guy is usually very bad at controlling his volume even in private conversations, so I couldn’t help but feel a bit paranoid that he was now whispering right after this conversation) – I heard just enough from his whispering to know he was still on the same topic, so now I’ve got my music on again to drown him out again at least so that I don’t think about it. I’m glad I at least spoke up some, but I don’t ever see much hope for lasting change with a couple of these guys.

    1. Justin*

      ” I’m glad I at least spoke up some, but I don’t ever see much hope for lasting change with a couple of these guys.”

      I think this sums it up well.

      I had to learn when i was younger, and it took listening and reading and talking. But mostly it took wanting to learn.

      And if they don’t want to, they won’t.

    2. Dr Whom*

      Good for you for speaking up, it is so exhausting and scary. I hope you can reach them at least a little bit. Personal stories are so impactful – we had a gender workshop at my (very liberal, “woke” workplace) and so many men were shocked at the stories. I was like where have you been??? But honestly, so many people think it isn’t Mad Men so it is magically cured!

      When I can’t deal with the ignorant outrage anymore about how hard men have it I like to say something like “I know my experience as an outsider in [marginalized group I’m not a part of] skews my viewpoint of the issue, so that’s something to consider as a [F&*#$ING MAN] who doesn’t have an insider’s view of sexual harassment.”

    3. Alfonzo Mango*

      Geesh. These conversations are so uncomfortable, but I am glad/proud of you for standing up to them. We have to make these conversations to make progress.

      1. Auntie Social*

        But, but—-the harassers don’t get to decide/announce that things are better. It’s the harassees who decide when it’s better.

    4. Kali*

      Good for you! I totally feel you on the all-male office thing. They’re all on the exact opposite end of the political spectrum as well, so it’s a constant battle in my head of speaking up or keeping the peace by not making myself the Other. I do have a few hard no’s and speak up on them, but yeah – looking for lasting change is a fool’s errand. For so many people, if they don’t experience it firsthand (and sometimes not even then), their minds remain unchanged by even the best, most well-presented logic. *sigh*

      1. EnfysNest*

        Yes, exactly this! The constant joking and dismissiveness regarding issues that are very important to me week after week, when I know they’re already less inclined to listen to my opinions in the first place – it’s just exhausting. :(

  71. DataGirl*

    Resume question: About 10 years ago I worked for a for-profit college that has since become defunct through a big scandal. My job was in the library and had nothing to do with anything scandalous, but I’m wondering if I should take it off my resume anyway- as people may have negative associations with this institution? It was 10 years ago, but if I remove it, there will be a large gap; the job before that was overseas and I like having the international experience on my resume.

    2. Holly*

      Hmm – I actually think you could go either way. Is the job relevant to what you would be applying to in the future? Have you had more relevant positions since then? If so, I don’t think it’s unusual to leave out certain jobs unless you worked there for a substantial amount of time. You could also still leave in the overseas experience. That said, you should leave it in if it’s relevant experience, and you can always explain if asked about it.

    3. Kathenus*

      You could also address the issue head on in your cover letter. ‘I spent x years at ___ college as a ___. Although the school is now closed and some of the concerns with for-profit colleges are more well-known, I gained xx skills and had xx achievements during my time there’. Obviously written better than that, but you get the idea.

      1. Anonymous Educator*

        That seems overly defensive to include it in the cover letter. There really isn’t anything DataGirl has to be ashamed of for working there, especially since it was 10 years ago, and she has presumably worked other legitimate places since.

        1. Kathenus*

          I get that perspective. I was coming at it from the angle if DataGirl wanted to include it but was afraid it could work against her, an active approach might mitigate that.

          Always good to look at different ways an action could be perceived before deciding what course to take. Thanks for giving a different take on it. The more ideas and perspectives the better.

    4. Elle*

      10 years is a fairly long way to go back, depending on how many jobs you’ve had since. I usually stick to 3-4 jobs with at least 3-4 bullet points under each. Then I have a second resume with my entire work history that I keep to give out if anyone asks.
      I think your energy would be better focused on elaborating about your recent relevant experience. You can even add a separate section “other relevant experience” and put “international job – such and such” under it’s own heading, along with any languages, hobbies, etc which might contribute to a better understanding of your abilities.

    5. CRM*

      Personally, I’d leave it off. Aside from the school’s bad reputation, 10 years was a long time ago. Depending on what jobs you’ve had in-between (and how relevant they are to your career goals), it’s likely that job would be viewed as irrelevant. If you want to highlight your international experience, why not just mention that in an interview? Obviously the exception is if you have only held one job since leaving the school.

    6. Very Special Librarian*

      Hmmm… I think it would depend on the job I was applying for. I do think a big gab could be concerning. I’d also consider the types of jobs you are applying for now and how long you stayed there. It’s a lot of unknowns

  72. Friday Anon*

    Face issues at work:
    I have an eye problem that results in “crust” and or mucus in my inner eye. I went to my doctor and she said it was allergies and gave me medicine. In the mean time while at work, I feel weird constantly cleaning my eyes or realizing after a conversation that I had something in my eyes the entire time. I’m starting to think other people have noticed this as well. I notified my supervisor as I think he might have noticed in my 1:1. I just said matter of factly: Argh my eyes are annoying me, I’m having some allergy issues, resulting in eye irritation. I don;t know what else to do. I feel I look disheveled although I pick at my eyes ALL DAY removing the crust constantly.

    1. Rincat*

      Even if people notice it (and it’s surprising what people DON’T notice), I’m sure they don’t care or give more than a second thought to it. We aggrandize these things in our minds. No one else cares. If someone does comment on it or thinks badly of you, that’s on them. Signed, A Woman with a Planet-Sized Zit on Her Chin Currently.

        1. Rincat*

          I have had this monstrosity for like 3 weeks now. It’s very slowly going down but it’s driving me crazy! I can’t use most acne treatments because of other skin issues so basically I just have to wait for it to die. :( I’m 34 years old, I shouldn’t get these anymore, dammit!

    2. Four lights*

      I wouldn’t worry too much. Sometimes people have issues, like acne, or things like this. The good people will ignore it.

      If you don’t want to be picking, you could get it off with a damp cotton ball or cloth–that may look more medical/hygienic.

      1. CM*

        +1 — use a handkerchief. If you notice anyone reacting to this, just matter-of-factly say that you’re having eye irritation.

    3. jack*

      I have issues with my eyes too – I cry occasionally from allergies/irritation. Just tell people you’ve got allergies and you’ll be fine.

    4. Blue Eagle*

      Just wondering if the crust is enough of an issue for you that you have to pick at it “constantly” (your word). I had an issue (not exactly similar) and instead of dealing with it continually, I set my alarm for 60 minutes and dealt with it every 60 minutes. Not sure if that would work for you, but it might be something to try to see if it would at least get you focused away from doing it constantly.

    5. Easily Amused*

      I had a similar issue in my first month or so of employment at my current job – diagnosed as blepharitis. Strangely, both my Mom and Sister had dealt with it at different times so I had a heads up on what it was and then an eye doctor confirmed it. These over the counter eye wipes were really helpful: OCuSOFT Lid Scrub – there’s a dark blue box that says “original” but see if you can find the light blue box version. I found that one more soothing. Hope it clears up soon!

  73. CBE*

    Need ideas for not-classical and not-jazz music without vocals to listen to while I work on a big number crunching project next week. Would love any suggestions for artists, playlists etc.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      Sonic Youth has an instrumental-only version of “Little Trouble Girl.”

      There’s “Sleepwalk” by Santo and Johnny.

      Hm. Both of those are sort of drowsy-inducing and not upbeat, so you may just drift off while number crunching.

    2. LCL*

      Would techno/electronic dance music be what you need? I know almost nothing about this kind of music, but I want to learn more.

    3. RabbitRabbit*

      Hmm, not vocals might be an issue; I was going to suggest a couple channels from a Vice article (“How ‘Lofi Hip Hop Radio to Relax/Study to’ Became a YouTube Phenomenon”), but most have vocals. Still, googling on that topic might get you some good options.

    4. EnfysNest*

      I use the Pandora stations for Escala, Lindsay Stirling, and The Piano Guys a lot at work – no lyrics, but they’re very upbeat and keep me energized, rather than falling asleep to classical music. It’s a mix of original music and instrumental covers of rock/pop music.

      1. H.C.*

        Adding to this – Bond, David Garrett & Vanessa Mae are also great neo-classics that are on the fast tempo & upbeat end.

    5. Nervous Nellie*

      If you want something truly ambient that won’t interfere with your crunch process, check out Sleepbot dot com. It’s a 24/7 free streaming site of dreamy quiet ambient melodies. I use it when I am doing taxes, and a friend uses it for the whole month of November when she participates in NaNoWriMo (the national writing month drive to write a whole novel in one month).

      1. Usually Lurks*

        I am a HUGE fan of listening to movie scores at work. Scores for chase scenes can be awesome when you are trying to power through to a deadline. Favorites on that front are Hans Zimmer’s scores for the 2 RDJ/Guy Richie Sherlock Holmes movies (and his Blade Runner 2049), the Arnold/Price scores for BBC Sherlock (All the Sherlocks do a lot of running madly about, it seems), and pretty much any of the Marvel movies (I was going to say “especially Alan Silvestri and Brian Tyler” but really as the years have gone on there have been many others with equally great contributions.) I just have a giant movie scores playlist that I can queue up when I need to drive my work along. ‘
        (that said I’m also a classical music fan, and sometimes when I need something super forceful I just pull out the complete Bach organ fugues and have at it.)

        2. Paquita*

          Yay for Bach organ fugues. And Brandenburg concertos. I will listen to some of that next week while working on month end reports.

    6. McWhadden*

      Slacker radio (a streaming app) has a station called Chill [Non-Voc] with more modern music without vocals.

    7. the_scientist*

      My default is usually Explosions in the Sky.

      If you like solo piano, Brad Mehldau is a jazz pianist but covers a variety of genres (his solo piano “Smells Like Teen Spirit” is pretty fantastic)!

    9. No Green No Haze*

      I lean towards EDM, trance music if I need concentration, for this kind of thing — or a YouTube channel of ‘Study Music – -Alpha Waves’ if I need something calmer. I’ve built 3 Pandora stations for mostly nonverbal music to work to: Pandora being imprecise, they’re not perfect, but I’m only willing to put x amount of work into it, and sometimes I meet a new composer . :)

      One is built around Daft Punk that I try to keep skewed away from lyrics, often fail but can ignore. I can’t help but let Massive Attack stay on it, because ‘Teardrop’ is awesome, but what can you do?

      Second, very good for doing my taxes, is built around John Adams, which isn’t classical per se but leans orchestral so you may not want that: minimalist, repetitive. Arvo Part, Steve Reich, etc. I let a lot of solo piano in there but push away Beethoven, Mozart, whomever.

      Third one’s basically movie soundtracks — I push heavy on the Thomas Newman (think “American Beauty” or “Finding Nemo” or “Road to Perdition;” Ennio Morricone, Alexandre Desplat, Nick Cave & Warren Ellis, etc.

      Anything with words I’ll eventually go through a phase of trying to sing along with, or get distracted by.

      In my name is a link to the frankly awesome Every Noise At Once, “an ongoing attempt at an algorithmically-generated, readability-adjusted scatter-plot of the musical genre-space, based on data tracked and analyzed for 2,246 genres by Spotify as of 2018-11-01. The calibration is fuzzy, but in general down is more organic, up is more mechanical and electric; left is denser and more atmospheric, right is spikier and bouncier.” You can click on genres and hear samples — it may come in very handy.

      1. No Green No Haze*

        Hm. Messed my my HTML, apparently, but if you Google “Every Noise At Once” you’ll get there.

    10. nice going angelica*

      I like the playlists Intense Concentration and Peaceful Guitar on Spotify. They got me through fiscal close and a big data project.

    11. Not Really a Waitress*

      I have seen where they recommend students listen to Hams Zimmer music while studying.

    16. Hallowflame*

      Movie scores are my go-to, and I’ve heard video game soundtracks are perfect for staying focused because they are designed specifically to keep the player engaged.

    17. HR Anon*

      I’m a huge fan of The Piano Guys – while there is some classical mixed in it isn’t traditional at all.

    18. fluffy*

      I use Jesse Cook and other nuevo flamenco artists, especially when I’m writing performance reviews. I’ve recently tried Vitamin String Quartet–they use quartet settings of rock, such as Nine Inch Nails. I built these on Pandora, and other selections fit in nicely.

    19. Llellayena*

      Lord of the Rings soundtrack. Star Wars soundtrack (I highly recommend the Pentatonix Star Wars, no words but it is vocal music). Basically any movie soundtrack by John Williams.

    21. Autumnheart*

      I listen to Pandora’s Spa Radio channel (basically yoga music) and I find it great for background music while working.

    22. Minerva McGonagall*

      I love the Assassin’s Creed games, and often listen to their soundtracks at work (particularly ones by Sarah Schachner and Jasper Kyd). If there are any games you play, check out their soundtracks since the majority of them will be instrumental tracks.

  74. LAX-LHR*

    Tips for Americans applying for jobs in the U.K.? There’s a position that’s senior enough to justify international applicants, so I’m not as concerned about that. But I’d love to hear about any differences in how search firms work, cover letter expectations, interview norms, etc.

    I should also mention that I spend a lot of time in London and have family there, so I’m not worried about culture shock overall.

    1. HR Lady*

      You need to talk, straight up, about what your right to work in the UK is. If they need to sponsor your visa, you are better letting them know straight away. (Brexit etc is making people more squirrelly than normal about visas, I speak as the person who manages global mobility and visas for London in my firm!) You are unlikely to receive a relocation allowance – emphasise in your CV and cover letter WHY you’re moving, as the company would rather take a punt on someone staying a while rather than someone trying something new.

      Don’t put your picture on your CV. That’s a European thing but not done in the UK.

      Not done much work in the US out of a few month in New York so can’t talk too much about the differences, but those two things are the ones I have direct experience in when working in recruitment.

      1. HR Lady*

        (Sorry, should have made it clearer – I’m a HR Manager in London who has also worked in several internal recruitment roles for UK firms, so that’s where my expertise is coming from!)

    2. SarahKay*

      Thank you notes after interviews are not a thing in the UK. I don’t suppose sending one would damage your chances, but they’re definitely not needed or expected.
      Sorry, no other advice as it’s been too many years since I was job hunting, but Good luck!

        1. Erika22*

          This!!! If necessary, think of it as a mini essay and match your experience to every point in the job spec. This was a real hurdle for me when I moved to the UK as I was so stuck on US cover letter writing techniques. It was only after doing this (and feeling like it was overkill but still doing it) that I got interviews and a job!

          1. Tilly*

            Definitely not overkill. If you don’t state why you meet each point, you can’t rely on them extrapolating from your experience. Literally list each bullet point and write underneath about why you fit it.

            1. LAX-LHR*

              Thanks again for this info! At the moment, it’s through a search firm, so there’s no application form; they’re just asking for CV and covering letter. Assuming I should reiterate and answer bullet points in the cover letter, rather than listing directly, yes?

      2. Sammie*

        They’re not done in Ireland either. I thankfully had a habit of sending a quick note to recruiters or hiring managers after an interview anyway, so when I got to the US, even though I didn’t know it was a thing, I ended up covering my bases when job hunting. However, now I’m the one involved in hiring and I have to say I find the thank you notes a little odd – they’re like itty bitty cover letters, another chance to sell yourself for the role. I think overall in Ireland and the UK, there is traditionally a bit more reserve in how you present yourself for a job; in a cover letter, my experience was that you tend to stick to pointing out your demonstrable achievements and how they match up with the job description. I don’t think there was any space given over to ‘I’m an agile problem solver who would make an exceptional addition to your team’… No one country’s way of doing it is in any way better – just different, and I wasn’t expecting to have this particular dose of culture shock right now!

  75. DouDouPaille*

    So THRILLED that after almost 8 months of searching, I have finally found a new job, starting Jan. 2!!!!! I will finally be free of this toxic workplace, horrible boss, and slacker co-workers. Just wanted to send some good vibes to others in similarly bad situations, so they can see that it CAN HAPPEN, but may take a while. I applied to probably 100 jobs, had a handful of interviews, and ended up being hired by a company that proactively FOUND ME on LinkedIn. They were really the only ones to recognize that my unique set of skills would be a huge asset (as opposed to other companies, who only cared that I ticked all the boxes, and could not think “out of the box,” so to speak). So, I finally found my needle in a haystack!!! IT CAN BE DONE!!!!

    3. Carnaxide*

      Congratulations! and I’m one of those people, who for now is stuck at a toxic place, until I get a few health things taken care of and then I’ll take my time looking for a good fit… nice to know there are bigger and better things out there! ENJOY!

  76. Rocky McRockface*

    How do you tell the difference between a new role that has a steep learning curve vs. one that is just a bad fit? I’m a little over 6 months into a new job and I feel like I’m still making mistakes all the time (some of which I really don’t think I should be making at this point). I have no idea whether I’m being too hard on myself or whether this job is just a bad fit for me. I’m working for a very small firm (me, the president who is retiring at the end of this year, and the VP) so I can’t exactly check in with coworkers. The bosses are out of the office frequently so I’m on my own a lot of the time and I get nervous about calling them to ask for help (and it’s sometimes not an option if they’re in meetings, etc.)

    I don’t really get any positive feedback. I’ve gotten some negative feedback but always delivered directly and kindly (ex. you should focus more on X instead of Y, spend less time doing Z, fix A and B in that report). I know it’s normal to have a lot to learn for a new role but I guess I was hoping I would be more up to speed at the 6 month mark. I’m only 23 and this is my first real job and I’m just feeling so overwhelmed. How do I know if I need to pushing vs. looking for a role that is a better fit?

    1. Alfonzo Mango*

      I think part of the issue is that both of these things could be true – it could be a steep curve and a bit of a bad fit (someone with more professional experience would adapt quicker).

      If you can bear it, stay for a year. But if it’s truly terrible on your mental and emotional health, and it’s costing the company money, maybe begin before.

    2. Psyche*

      I think it is impossible for an outsider to determine if it is a steep learning curve vs a bad fit. However, a job that has a steep learning curve and little to no supervision is going to make it very hard to come up to speed. It is hard to learn if there is no one to teach.

    3. Kathenus*

      I’d also consider meeting with one/both of them, whoever is most appropriate, and asking head on. ‘I’m new in my career and am aware of the steep learning curve for this job. I’m taking xx steps to continue to learn and improve. Do you have any suggestions for my continued progress and development?’ – in your own words of course. You’re acknowledging the situation, letting them know the steps you are trying to take regarding it, and asking for their advice. Most employers would love these qualities in an employee.

      1. Rocky McRockface*

        I find the work itself really interesting, but there are aspects of the field I’m not crazy about. It’s consulting, and I don’t love having to track my time so closely (for billable hours purposes). And I don’t really like being by myself in the office as often as I am, which I don’t think is something that will change unless my firm hires someone else.

  77. Looking looking*

    I wasn’t actively looking but I saw an ad that’s really interesting, I submitted an application 2 weeks ago and they are interviewing me on Tuesday! I’ve been reading up tips here, just hope I’m not very nervous that day!

    1. Say what?*

      That’s awesome! Congrats! Practice your talking points and might help you cut your nerves. Also, remember you weren’t actively looking and you don’t NEED this job so there’s not a crazy amount riding on this.

      1. Looking looking*

        Thank you! I look like I’ve been talking to myself a lot lately now just practicing my script lol

  78. Galinda Upland*

    Anyone here with a background in academia? I’m getting ready for an interview next week and my nerves are getting the best of me.

    Some background: I’m not quite fresh out of grad school, but pretty close, and in my mid 20s. I’m in a creative/artistic field (I have an MFA, not PhD) and have a fairly specific niche that is not one of the “big” focuses in my discipline (it’s viewed as more a commercial niche than an academic one) but is starting to grow. Although I’m teaching right now at a university, it wasn’t a big formal interview process – it was literally offered to me by a former mentor who was short staffed for the fall. It’s very meh, and I’ve been looking to leave this area for a long time anyway.

    The job I’m interviewing for is exactly my specialty, down to the letter, but I’m still unusually young for my field and on the lower end of the experience spectrum they’re looking for. Any tips for interviewing well and presenting myself to best advantage when I know I don’t have an elite theoretical background or a lengthy resume of work in the field yet?

    1. fposte*

      Know the department, know the school. What are the current goals? What’s its direction? What’s new there, and what challenges is it facing? While this depends to some extent on the job, knowing something like there’s a new Strategic Plan and that the department is expanding/taking [whatever] action to meet it puts you on a higher step than candidates who merely offer the relevant skills.

    2. Birch*

      Congrats on your degree! In my experience, it’s the special interests that will get you the job–finding that fit between what they need and what you can bring. It sounds like you have a great chance because this job is already in your specialty. The rest of it is pretty similar to any interview; you want to show that you’re prepared, capable of thinking on your feet and giving thoughtful answers, etc. I think academic jobs are often also interested in seeing applicants who are willing to keep learning, able to pick up new skills, and are naturally curious. So you could bring a mental list of some recent topics related to your specialty in case you have the chance to have a conversation about why they’re important and how they interest you, along with how you can use the knowledge and skills you do have to help the team complete their goals. And don’t downplay your teaching. A good academic team understands the value of a good teacher and wants to support the education of their students, and it means you’ve had a chance to develop good communication skills early, which is really important in academia (although often neglected) and will put you ahead for things like conference presentations and community engagement, if those are things done in your field. Good luck and let us know how it goes!

    3. PB*

      Like fposte said, know the school. I see too many people go into job talks and talk about what’s worked at their current place of employment, without giving any indication of how that might work for ours. Heck, I’m sure I’ve been guilty of that, myself, in past interviews. This isn’t the “pain letter” approach where you try to guess what problems they may be having. Rather, spend time perusing their website and social media, see what they have going on, and think about what you can offer that would fit into that big picture.

  79. Youth*

    A hiring manager who rejected you later reaches out and asks if you’d be interested in being put in contact with an associate of theirs who might need your skills. You respond enthusiastically, but after two weeks, you haven’t heard back from the hiring manager or from their associate. Do you reach out to the hiring manager again and inquire politely if they contacted their associate about you? Do you just let it go with the assumption that the hiring manager forgot or the associate wasn’t interested in you or that the arrangement otherwise fell through? Or do you do something else?

    1. Say what?*

      Since it’s been two weeks I’d say you could reach out once. But bear in mind that hiring managers get tons of emails, calls and such in a day and they may not get to yours right away. I wouldn’t expect to hear back today even if it were a Wednesday, but especially not on a Friday.

    2. Holly*

      I think it’s appropriate to reach out once after two weeks. Something like “Thank you again for offering to put me in contact with X for X purpose. So far I haven’t heard from X and I want to reiterate I’m still interested in that opportunity.”

      After that if you don’t hear anything I’d let it go.

  80. Cherry*

    Can anything be done here? It;s 90 degrees in our office, and almost everyone is complaining. It’s boiling hot.

    I already have a fan at my desk, some have a big box fan in the row etc. But it’s still making for a miserable situation. We had new windows installed that can’t be opened. I brought it up to the office mgr and she said nothing can be done. I asked the person who sits at the front desk downstairs, and she said have our office mgr call the building to figure out what’s going on. OM is just as miserable and had said she’s contacted them multiple times this week to no avail.

    I’m in NY where it’s currently in the 60s & humid AF this week. I waited 6 miserable months for the heat to stop and now it’s just gone from being hot outside to being hot inside.

    2. BRR*

      If the OM isn’t effective or if you think she didn’t contact the building, is there anyone else you can reach out to? My office is sweltering in the winter and I’ve tried casually dropping it into friendly chit chat with a few people who might be able to do something. I’ve also talked with my manager about it (his pit stains helped me segue to it). Ask the OM to buy more fans? Are there hotter and cooler spots? Maybe you can change locations so everybody is where they prefer.

    3. Jaid_Diah*

      Find where the thermostat sensor is and light a match under it. It may need a kick to register that the heat needs to go down.

      Put a bowl of ice in front of your fan. Or get a mini Vorando.

      You have all my feels.

  81. Dragoning*

    Someone new in our department started this week, and they moved him into the cube directly next to mine. He promised to be quiet, which, well, whatever.

    But my job does actually require a fair amount of quiet and focus. And he won’t. Stop. Chatting. With. Everyone.

    He keeps having people flock to his desk and he gossips with them for hours. I’m going crazy.

      1. Dragoning*

        Yes, but they’re an expensive one. I have headphones in right now, but I can hear the chatting through them.

        1. Psyche*

          Can you ask the company to buy a pair since your job requires concentration (and therefore quiet) and they are unable or unwilling to give you a quiet place to work? I know some companies are receptive to requests like that while others are not.

          1. Dragoning*

            They’re not going to do that for a contractor, unfortunately :(

            Also the person in charge of order supplies did it earlier this week so I’d have to wait

    2. Auntie Social*

      He’s new—now is the time to tell him your department’s (and your) needs. All the chatters sound very disruptive. And I’d also tell him that you won’t hesitate to tell them to move along because you have work to do.
      They can’t IM each other??

      1. Dragoning*

        He actually promised me on the first day that he’d be quiet!

        I’m hoping it’s because he’s still new and doesn’t actually have access to the system yet because he was supposed to start next week.

        I am also the youngest person in this department by at least 10 years and pretty low on the totem pole–I don’t feel comfortable telling people with that much more seniority than me to move it.

    3. BRR*

      Have you asked him to stop? I’ve also tried asking if the offenders could book a conference room to work in if there was a big topic that needed to a long discussion.

      1. Dragoning*

        No it’s all…social chatter. I’d be okay if they were talking about work! And they usually actually get a room for that. But for over two hours this morning, they just. Talked. Nonstop.

        2. Someone Else*

          Interrupt after 10 minutes and say something like “sorry, could you chat elsewhere? I really need to focus and this is a bit distracting.” (or leave out the softening language if you want) Since you mentioned he said he’d be quiet on the first day, it seems low risk that he be perterbed about you directly asking him to be quiet when he’s not doing so. Don’t let it go on that long.

  82. dragon_heart*

    Another job rejection. This time it sucks even more that I made it to the reference check stage (final interview was done) . I really thought I had it. My references are good because I got jobs through them before. This is my second time making it past the final interview only to get a rejection letter. I am okay with getting rejected at the early stage but getting to the final stage and then getting rejected feels way worse.

    Are visa sponsored jobs this hard to get(Yes, both rejections are for an overseas position. Both from EU countries, and I am a non-EU citizen)

    1. Say what?*

      Yeah, they can be. And if you’re neck and neck with someone who is already in the country it can sink it for you based on that alone. But you made it into their top tier! That really does say something great about you, although I know that might not be enough to sway the bad feeling. I’m sorry.

  83. Vocalrange*

    How do you make yourself competitive against new graduates (relatively new) who have a few years job experience, in directly related fields straight out of school? I graduated during the recession, wanted arty roles, only foudn short-term, temp, or unpaid roles and ended up in admin, which I’ve struggled to work my way out of. It’s a decade later and I have lots of relevant experience to the field I now want to work in – communications, although it’s taken me a long time to scrape this together, and it’s bitty. I currently find myself working as a temp assistant alongside someone who has maybe 2 years experience, after graduation, all of which is relevant and continuous. She earns far more than me (and far more than I’ve ever earned) and actually finds herself asking my advice most of the time. The work I have now is a great opportunity, but seeing how far ahead of me she is, is dispiriting, especially as that’s exactly who I’m competing for jobs with. When I get into a job I can see that my experience in varied roles, and in admin, and varied industries is useful, but it’s hard to convince employers of that when they have people who have gone straight into relevant roles. Can anyone recommend a way round this, or has anyone dealt with this?

    1. Alianora*

      It sounds like you’re getting interviews, so I would make it a point to talk about concrete accomplishments that are relevant to the role.

      A general interviewing technique that’s worked well for me is to have some accomplishments in mind, and treat the interview more like a chat than a Q&A. If they ask a question that’s somewhat related to something else I want to bring up, I answer the question and if it feels natural, I segue into talking about how my other experience relates.

  84. New_Poster*

    My many apologies if this has been asked before (I checked a couple of Friday posts like this and didn’t quickly see anything)– how long is Allison’s email queue? How long should I wait before not seeing my question posted, before I can/should ask the question here? Thanks :)

    1. BRR*

      I know it’s long. I think she’s said around a couple weeks (I’m sorry if I’m misremembering!). I think she’s also said you can email her and check. Obvious exceptions if the matter is urgent.

    2. Someone Else*

      It varies. I know she’s sometimes mentioned she replied to something right away before, but it also sometimes is several weeks. I think she answered a question of mine maybe 3-4 weeks after I submitted it? If it’s been two months or more I’m guessing it’s not in the queue though.

  85. HailRobonia*

    Crazy office story: My office has had a problem with employee turnover lately, with people getting hired and then the Big Boss doesn’t like them and they get fired a couple weeks later. In the past, when a new person has been hired a “welcome so-and-so” email would be sent out to us alerting us of our new colleague.

    This has changed: the powers that be have decided not to send out these announcements because maybe that new person won’t be with us for very long. They might as well say “here’s your new colleague, don’t bother learning their name.”

    1. There goes another one*

      Is Big Boss involved in the hiring process at all? If so, it sounds like he/she needs to be to reduce all of the employee turnover.

    2. AvonLady Barksdale*

      That is obnoxious (your Big Boss, that is). Now I’m curious: what is it about these people he doesn’t like? Does he hire? Is he generally a megalomanic?

  86. Manders*

    I injured a tendon and now I’m stuck in a walking boot! I’m lucky that I’m allowed to work from home, but I’m training an assistant next week, so I do have to be in the office.

    Does anyone have tips for navigating mobility issues and pain in an office setting? My boss has generously offered to help with alternate transit so I don’t have to hobble to the bus stop and back, but I’m still adjusting to the boot and just getting dressed/getting to the bathroom/not occasionally putting my head down and crying from pain or frustration is difficult. I’m a little worried about having to be “on” for 9 hours on Monday.

    1. Four lights*

      You could rent one of those knee walkers for the week, it might make navigating the office easier. And talk to your doctor about your pain level and what/how much pain meds to take (if you haven’t already).

      1. Manders*

        Ah, where can I rent one of those? I didn’t know it was possible to rent that kind of equipment.

        My doctor did give me a regimen with anti-inflammatories, but I don’t think anything’s gonna totally eliminate the pain, short of drugs I shouldn’t be on while working.

        1. Four lights*

          Try googling “rent medical equipment” or “medical supply” in your area.

          If you haven’t already you could ask your doctor about other pain management techniques, like hot or cold compresses, or positioning it a certain way.

          And try to stay off it as work as much as possible. Just because you’re in the office doesn’t mean you have to move around like you would if you were feeling better.

          You could also talk to your boss and look at the training schedule to see how tough it might be on you, and see if there could be some time for you to take breaks, maybe alone somewhere.

          1. Alice*

            I would strongly recommend getting it from a real store near you, instead of mail order. I recently rented a wheelchair from a brick and mortar shop and a knee walker from an online service recommended by my doctors office. The former was a lot better than the latter. Think of it – if there’s a problem when you’re picking up some equipment from their store, you can say “this handle feels loose” and they’ll either fix it or get you another one. If it’s arrived by mail, your SOL unless you want to spend hours on the phone with them – and in the case of the knee walker I rented, they just sent me a replacement part. I couldn’t install it. The whole thing was hugely frustrating and in fact reduced me to tears. (I mean, I was at the end of my tether for other reasons too, but they were awful.)
            I will post in a reply the url of the mail order rental company that was so bad. If Alison doesn’t mind having such complaints in the comment section, she can release it from moderation.
            BTW, make sure that you can adjust the knee walker to the height that lets your hips be set naturally when the bad leg is on it.
            Feel better!

            2. Alice*

              Also, if there’s any issue with swelling, it might help to wear a compression stocking under the boot. For that matter, you’re probably not moving around a lot – maybe a compression stocking on the good leg too.

      2. Windchime*

        I agree with this. I rented a knee scooter for 6 weeks when I was non-weight bearing and in a boot. It was a life saver. I tried crutches but honestly I found them exhausting. Even if you are technically allowed to walk in your boot, the knee scooter will help you from tiring so easily.

        Also–you may have to wear a shoe with a heel on your non-injured foot. The boot basically makes that leg longer and it can really mess with your hips and back.

    2. LCL*

      When I had to wear a boot I just said eff it and used a cane. Canes aren’t just for walking, they are really useful for helping you rise out of a chair, and for leaning on if you have to stand for awhile. Also, if you will be in one place for some time, bring a portable fan and aim it at your foot. Those boots get really hot.

      1. Temperance*

        I definitely recommend talking to your doctor before getting a cane. They can mess with your mobility.

    3. CM*

      My only advice is to not try to minimize it so you appear normal. Go ahead and inconvenience people. Remind them that you need to sit, can’t take the stairs, or whatever other challenges you are having. Ask them for help if you need it to avoid pain, even if you don’t absolutely need it and you COULD manage on your own.

      Of course, I’m giving this advice because these are the exact issues I struggle with myself! Good luck next week.

      1. Manders*

        Hah! I actually walked on it for 4 days before going to a doctor because I convinced myself I was making a big deal out of a minor injury. Lesson learned.

    4. Rey*

      I would think about exactly what you need to make this work with your training, ie, a 10 minute break every hour, a heating pad to use while you’re sitting (I have no idea if this helps ease the pain), a stool to prop your leg on when you’re sitting, taking ibuprofen and tylenol alternating every 2-4 hours, and then take that specific list of asks to your boss. It sounds like they’re supportive of the whole thing, so if it’s something that doesn’t affect your work flow, or only slightly affects your work flow, I’m sure they can make it work. I also think it might be freeing to just be straightforward with the trainee on Monday, “I’m in this walking boot and am experiencing pain off-and-on. I just wanted to make you aware since I’ll be training you all-day.”

    5. Temperance*

      I did this last year. It wasn’t that bad, to be totally honest. Take ibuprofen for the pain, and do it regularly. Wear a comfortable shoe on the non-boot foot. Prop your foot up and make people come to you instead of walking around.

    6. HR Anon*

      If you have a local senior center, try that too. They often have medical supply loan closets for free and will often lend to anyone in the community. You might be able to get a knee scooter/walker or other equipment for free.

      Also – as someone who has had five foot surgeries over the years…get a stool or ottoman (the cheap ones at walmart/target work well) to raise up your foot when you are sitting (don’t rely on the overturned garbage can). It makes a huge difference to keep your foot elevated during the day whenever possible.

      One more thing – make a plan to ice your foot. Even if it is bringing in ice packs and/or ziplock bags for ice.

      Good luck!

    7. Jaid_Diah*

      Get an Even-Up Shoe Balancer for the other foot so you’re not walking lopsided. They’re available on Amazon or Walmart.

  87. Decima Dewey*

    Venting a bit. I’m having health issues at work. Not my health, my coworkers’s.

    My boss, Mr. Lastname, has frequent doctor’s appointments. Without asking a single question, I know that he has migraines, that tobacco smoke makes him sick, that he has cervical stenosis, and that he’s recently had hernia surgery. And I still have to tell him to stop lifting/moving heavy objects.

    Another coworker, Fergusina, has back and knee problems. At this point, it would make more sense for her to call to say she’ll be in instead of when she’ll be out. Because of Mr. Lastname’s health issues, I end up taking the call when she phones to say she’s sick. She insists on giving me longwinded explanations of what’s wrong. Fergusina says that she likes to give details because people will be more sympathetic. I don’t have the heart to tell her it’s having the opposite effect: the more detail she gives me, the more suspicious I am. It didn’t help matters when, after being out almost the whole week with back pain, she came in and promptly lifted a big UPS bin full of materials returned at other branches to the counter! She’s used up her FMLA (I know because she sent me an email telling me this). Fergusina is retiring in December.

    Fergusina’s immediate supervisor, Agatha, is having multiple doctor’s appointments. Both she and Fergusina are on the system’s Sick Leave Abuse List must provide sick notes for every time they call out (yes, it’s a stupid rule, but it’s the system’s stupid rule).

    I’m the oldest person in the branch, and apparently the healthiest!

    1. StellaBella*

      Yikes. I once worked at a place with an admin who lobbied hard to get a paid sick leave insurance policy in place, then promptly took 6 months off with a note after it was sorted. Not even kidding. And she was still the director’s favourite. And I was doing 4 jobs and left after a come to jesus meeting where my 4 job’s effort was not enough and my attitude was suffering…. as it was so toxic.

    2. valentine*

      You can be direct: say TMI and change the subject three times, then leave or turn away. On the phone: “Okay, I’ll let you go, Fergusina,” then hang up when you’re mid-word.

  88. tilt-a-whirl*

    My company laid off a few people last week. I don’t necessarily disagree with the laying off but the way it’s being treated by the leadership here really rubs me the wrong way. The president started off the announcement by saying that it was really hard for him personally and then said they were all gracious people but it was the best choice to keep the company “healthy into the future.” Then I saw today that this week, one of the obnoxious folks gave the prez and CEO monetary kudos through this small-scale bonus-giving program that we all have for “carrying the burden of making difficult decisions.” Ridiculous. Maybe I’m callous or maybe it’s another straw on the camel’s back but all of it just makes me roll my eyes and none of it seems genuine or appropriate.

    1. Pollygrammer*

      That’s an attrcious amount of saccharine insincerity. Both the kissass who gave the little gold star and the execs who didn’t immediately decline it are completely inappropriate. Eye rolls are absolutely called for.

  89. Alligator Pear*

    Any advice on working–and internally interviewing–while super-vomity? What would be really helpful is advice on working through and despite the nausea and vomiting rather than prevention tips since preventative measures, and three anti-nausea medications, are not doing the trick this time around. The civil service-style interview panel will likely consist of higher-ups both from my department (who know I’m pregnant) and other departments (who don’t, unless I’m showing even more by then.) Civil service means there is no flexibility on scheduling the interview. If it’s one of those days where I vomit 4x/hour, do I say something to the panel at the outset? Only at the moment when I need to excuse myself? How do I make a case for myself as a great candidate for promotion when the reality is that I suck at work right now and will continue to suck until the nausea improves…by which point I might be on family leave?

    1. Mrs. Carmen Sandiego JD*

      Having had a family member go through severe MS (leaving the DMV driver’s license place to urp), and having had a cousin go through chemo with similar ill effects, and having volunteered in a cancer ward where certain candy was given out to stave nausea–sour lemon candy, jolly ranchers, cinnamon gum, ginger gum, peppermint gum, breathing through one’s mouth/not nose, having a cold water compress on left and right wrist points, sea bands, sour chewy grapefruit candy, have all been seen as helpful. (In the chemo ward, lemon drops were routinely given out).

      Hopefully something works!

      1. NoLongerYoungButLotsWiser*

        For chemo (and I don’t know if this is okay for someone pregnant, not a doctor…), Zofran (it’s generic) was wonderful for my husband. And I tried it personally when I got food poisoning and had to get well enough to make it home. It was a lifesaver. But yes, I’ve traveled with those green (or blue) throw-up bags in my laptop bag….the ones with the ring to hold them open, and long to hold your stomach contents in the actual bag. Wishing you well.

    2. valentine*

      Restroom recon, including asking the admin the word on the street about any related construction/closures. Saltines. Move as little as possible. Carry barf bags and keep the trash can near you.

  90. Embarassed*

    My company is cracking down on internet safety and wants anyone who has accessed unsafe sites (porn, obviously, but other sites like for illegal downloads) to come forward to the information security team and have their device checked to be sure it’s safe. I’ve of course never accessed anything like that on my work computer, but one day I realized that I had forgotten to clean my porny search in the Tumblr app on my phone. I didn’t open it at work, but I was connected to the company wifi…. They’ve made a big deal that this isn’t a Big Brother thing, it’s all about safety and not exposing us to viruses. I’m not going to get a virus from the Tumblr app, so do I need to shamefacedly admit this to information security or just forget about it?

    1. KR*

      I wouldn’t worry about it. If they ask you about it you can feign innocence or just tell them that Tumblr is a social network with a lot of explicit content and you forgot to close the app when you went on the premises. Assuming it’s your cell and not your company cell that is.

    3. nonegiven*

      Once I got a security warning from the site of a company that sold magnifiers for reading materials for the visually impaired. It was a camera system that you plugged into the video port of a tv. Almost any website can be hacked.

  91. EddieSherbert*

    Any tips for avoiding caretaker burnout? I’m in leadership at an animal rescue (I lead the foster program and foster neonatal kittens), but tips in general are great! Usually I manage okay, but I just haven’t been able to catch a break in weeks! I’m just feeling totally beaten down and overdue for a win.

    October looked like this:
    * Someone’s long time foster dog (9 months) was finally adopted beginning of October. Person let the dog outside alone the next day. Dog got out. Still hasn’t turned up and it’s been almost 4 weeks. Person just adopted ANOTHER dog from a similar background from another rescue out of state. The foster is BEYOND devastated, and we’ve learned the adopter lied to the other rescue about the dog from us (didn’t even mention it happened).

    * A foster of mine that was adopted 2 weeks ago died suddenly from a rare and noncontagious but deadly mutation. The family was kind about it (I met them at the vet and stayed for his euthanasia), but devastated.

    * That kitten’s sister (adopted by friends of his family) was returned because of what happened to her brother (again, his condition is NOT contagious and every cat has like a 2% chance of developing it)

    * Someone reached out to me directly (versus the organization) to see if they could return a former foster of mine (they adopted 2 years ago as a kitten) and get a new kitten instead.

    * I personally lost an 8 day old kitten last weekend :(

    * I personally had a 4 week old kitten crash a few days ago. Still monitoring and feeling hopeful she’ll pull through. She’s finally eating again on her own today.

    *I personally had a 3 month old kitten’s second test for FELV (Leukemia) come back positive yesterday, so I had to cancel his adoption and I have to keep him until we can retest at 16 weeks of age. The adopter was taking him and his brother and decided not to take either now “just in case.”

    1. EddieSherbert*

      Sorry, that turned into venting. TLDR: Need tips to avoid burnout during (hopefully after…) really bad streaks of misfortune at work (this is volunteer work for me!).

      1. Lil Fidget*

        Oh man, these all sound super hard. It’s tough when you KNOW you’re doing a good thing but the bad outcomes pile up more conspicuously than the good ones. When I get to the list-making stage I always know I’m in trouble (and then THIS, and then THIS TOO, and then THIS OTHER THING) because I start connecting things that aren’t necessarily even the same except they’re Pissing Me Off. Condolences. It’s okay to pull back if you need to pull back, it’s okay to snuggle with your own pet and be grateful you have them, it’s okay to find another way to help if this way isn’t working for you anymore. But it’s also okay to remember you’ve probably helped hundreds of animals lead better lives – that’s the list to be keeping!

        1. EddieSherbert*

          Thanks :) I just have FELV kitten for now, and I’ve decided it’s going to just be him at least until his retest. A month with less chaos will do us all some good, I think.

          And I’m going to try LQ’s idea below about a positive impact journal. It’s a lovely idea!

    2. LQ*

      I don’t do anything nearly this important, but I’ve been struggling near burn out for a while and the best thing I’ve done is at the end of every single day I write down one thing (sometimes more) that I did to make the program I work for, and my state, a better place. (in public service so I tie it to the mission) And I do it as the last thing every day, and it’s just one very brief, very cryptic line. But over the last year it’s added up and I now have pages and pages and every day when I flip that book open (I use a physical book) and I have to flip past all the pages I’ve already filled? I have a little sense of relief and it’s easier to put it out of my head and continue on.

      1. EddieSherbert*

        I think this is a wonderful idea. I was literally just saying to one of my fosters that even though the last couple weeks seem awful, there have been many adoptions that have gone totally smooth with no complications or issues. I need those reminders myself! Plus, once that notebook starts getting full, I would absolutely skim through it all occasionally for a boost/reminder of the happy parts.

        (PS that foster just contacted me a couple hours ago about a RINGWORM outbreak at her house… so I get to head to her place after work to help kick off treatment for THAT… *sigh*)

        1. LQ*

          There are some days where it is really hard to come up with something, but even the small wins go in so it adds up. I have a daily reminder notification at the end of my day for an appointment to fill it out.

          I hope you start to see it, it’s taken me about 6 months to have enough where every time it’s pages and pages to flip through, but honestly once I had more than one page it helped to skim through. You might even be able to put in photos!

        2. Jaid_Diah*

          The Kitten Lady was talking about being able to use a spray bottle for the ringworm treatment instead of dunking the kittens in a bath. Her most recent video was of her in a shelter helping out with the treatment. Link is in my name.

          1. EddieSherbert*

            I love Hannah Shaw!! Thanks!
            We are mostly spraying. A couple cats with lesions are getting dipped still, just in case… We’re going to be having dipping/spraying “date nights” a couple times a week for awhile… >_<

    3. AshK434*

      THANK YOU for all you do. I love cats (more than people) and it takes a special person to deal with the ups-and-downs that’s involved with working at an animal shelter. Unfortunately I have no advice but I just wanted to let you know that you rock!

      Also – I’m so sorry for all of the kitty losses you’ve experienced.

    4. Ask a Manager* Post author

      I’m so sorry. That’s awful.

      I’ve been working with some wonderful rescue groups this week (we have some news on that front…) and the work you are doing is amazing and so important. Thank you for doing it.

      1. EddieSherbert*

        Thanks Alison and Ash for the kind words :) They do help!

        The “fun” just keeps rolling in. We’re up to 12 confirmed cases of ringworm (including the foster’s personal pet cats) and my poor returned foster cats needs ALL his teeth removed because they’re so badly infected/rotted. You can smell the infection from like 2 ft away. His “family” got a new kitten; the new kitten was already there when we picked him up on Saturday (and took him straight to the vet).

        BUT I do feel more in control than I did last week. Another foster took my 4 week old kittens and the sick one seems to have fully recovered. A vet tech that fosters took the returned cat. I just have the one potentially FELV kitten and I took most of the weekend to just enjoy my family and work on house stuff with the SO.

  92. Seeing Red*

    I don’t think I’ve been this angry about a work situation in my entire life. There are really strict procedures in my work, and I’ve been really good about following them. There are weekly audits on our work, and I’ve just been dinged on something no one should have been dinged on.

    I cited lots of sources saying what I did was correct and even included a screenshot of a related procedure that could have applied in this situation but didn’t. My supervisor just emailed me saying I should have done the related procedure and even included the screenshot I just put in and discarded the previous reasons that should have been applied even though anyone else would have done the same thing I did.

    These audits affect my performance scores. It would be weird to go one step above my supervisor, but I don’t know what to think.

    1. valentine*

      When you’re calm, assess the risk. Go above her, if you don’t think it’ll help to point out her seeming inattention.

  93. Penguinadon*

    Our company (a government contractor) just got acquired by a new company this year. New company has benefits briefings coming up so we can find out what their healthcare, etc. options are since we will be changing to theirs in this new enrollment period. They told us we have to take personal time to attend the briefings. Is this right? It sure doesn’t seem right.

    1. H.C.*

      It depends. Are they also providing other materials to tell you how your benefits are changing? Or are these briefings the only opportunity to learn about your new benefits package?

      In most of my jobs, every time the benefits package changed (usually just before annual enrollment periods) I get a huge packet mailed to me – presumably to review on my own time.

    2. WellRed*

      Strange. It’s related to your JOB. Work meetings, for any reason, should be done on company time. Potential flag here about the new company.

  94. StressedButOkay*

    Can anyone recommend a brand of headphones that meet most of the criteria below? The background noises in my office – despite all parties having offices – is driving me spare:

    * Not fixed to each other so I can have one in with the other not (i.e., not a band)
    * Good sound proofing
    * Not terribly expensive

    (Sounds include snorting, talking to themselves, making what I can only describe as “mouth noises”, eating noises, along with the normal bustle of a busy office. Multiple sources, omg.)

    1. SarahKay*

      I like Shure headphones. They do them as earbuds, and they’re shaped such that they fill part of your outer ear, not just the inside bit the headphone goes in. They’re not the noise-cancelling type, so no extra batteries needed to power them. They basically just work as fairly effective ear-plugs with added music, if that makes sense.

      They’re not actually cheapbut they lower-end ones aren’t extortionate either – I just searched for “Shure headphones” on Amazon and they have them from $90 for the type that I use at work.

      I think the sound-proofing is pretty good, but admittedly have never tested them against horrible noises like mouth noises, eating, etc, where you really, really don’t want to hear the sound.

    2. BRR*

      I’ve had good luck with the Panasonic ErgoFit In-Ear Earbud Headphones RP-HJE120-K. They might not be the strongest in sound proofing, but they’re affordable and comfortable for me at least. An old pair broke (or I lost the rubber tip, I can’t remember) and I ended up cutting the cord on them and use them as ear plugs.

  95. wingmaster*

    This week was a good week for me. Halloween’s one of my favorite holidays, and I’m glad my company did something for that day. We had a pizza truck, pie eating contest, and costume contest. I happened to win one of the costume contest categories of Best Representing the Company. I work in menswear apparel, so I dressed up as the hangtag with the logo on it. I think I got good laughs from the president too when he saw my costume. I also went to my coworkers party later that night, and it was nice to get to know a few of my coworkers in my department. I NEVER go out a night, so this was a nice change.

    1. Not Maeby But Surely*

      Pizza truck? Like, a food truck that serves pizza? Sorry, that was as far as I got in your comment, going back to read the rest now. :) Glad it was a good week!

  96. psychresearcher*

    After receiving a raise, is there an expectation that you’ll stay on in the position for a certain period of time? Six months? A year? Or is this typically only a thing if your manager is explicit about it?

    1. Meredith Brooks*

      Your manager isn’t going to explicitly tell you that they’re expecting you to stay a predetermined amount of time following a raise. I would say if the raise is just a cost of living increase to match inflation, you shouldn’t feel obligated to stay. If it were a promotion, I’d say you should at least give them a year.

  97. sigh*

    This Halloween, while I was working on a project, some of my coworkers wanted to take a picture together since they had done a group costume. I was standing at my cubicle with my back turned to them and didn’t realize I was in the background. Instead of just asking me to move, one of my coworkers pushed me out of the way while saying “Hey, you need to move. You’re in the way.” It wasn’t a hard shove or anything, but I felt like the whole interaction was so rude. No one called her out or anything so I just kind of scuttled away. This is something I just need to get over, but this workplace is seriously blurring what I thought was polite behavior.

    2. Not Maeby But Surely*

      Wow, that was super rude of that person! I’d have a hard time letting that go, myself.

    3. ronda*

      I think you should go to her now and tell her that you didnt say anything at the time because you were so surpirsed but that she needs to not push people. She could really hurt someone.

  98. Melody Pond*

    Happy Friday, everyone!

    A few weeks ago, I’d posted a question, debating whether I should include attachments of my work in Excel, for a junior data analyst position. I didn’t wind up doing that – although as a side note, I do disagree with the commenters who responded by saying that Excel skills are totally unrelated to things like SQL. (And so does my experienced-in-SQL data analyst friend who was the one who taught me most of these things in Excel.)

    But anyway! Today, I’m hoping for a phone call with at least the verbal offer! My references got called this week, and the hiring manager straight up told them she was going to make me an offer. She also said to me in an email that she was hoping to have a verbal offer to me by the end of the week. I’m beyond excited!! Just had to share, the excitement is almost too much. :)

    1. Troutwaxer*

      Technically, Excel is a spreadsheet and SQL is a language used to work with databases. The problem here is that frequently Excel is used when an SQL database would be the correct choice, and this drives technical people nuts for various reasons, some rational and some emotional. The two big rational reasons are that an Excel spreadsheet is a file, while an SQL database is a program that can talk to multiple computers at the same time – SQL works much better for shared data – and also that the traditional use of a Spreadsheet is to perform mathematical calculations. But a spreadsheet will act kinda-sorta like a database if you misuse it, which is usually not a problem… until it’s a problem, then it’s a big nasty issue which frequently requires someone to write a custom program in order to migrate the data.

      On the other hand, I’ve very glad you got your job and I hope you really like working at the new place.

  99. Jaybeetee*

    Good news for me :). Had my first performance evaluation in my new position the other day, all was good. I’ve been in this job for about 6 months now, but it’s a much more “independent” job than those I’ve had before, and I’ve found my manager rather aloof and distant – going a week or more without really speaking to her has not been uncommon. I’ve been suffering some imposter syndrome (I’ve also learned that certain training issues here have been systemic – it’s not just me who’s six months in feeling like I still don’t know half of what I need to know), so it’s nice to have it on paper that everything is on track and they’re happy with my performance.

  100. Anon for this one*

    Is it okay to start applying to jobs when there’s a good chance you’ll have to leave it in two years?

    My partner is in a PhD program and will likely finish in a little under two years. He wants to teach and so it’s very likely that we will have to move wherever he can secure an academic position, though I suppose there is a small chance we can stay in our current city.

    I’m currently employed full time at a job that I’m no longer happy at. There are definite pros—I have great coworkers and good bosses, and have insurance—but the work is becoming soul-draining and anxiety inducing, and I dread going to work every day.

    If this was a normal situation, I’d be rigorously job hunting. But I’m unsure whether to just stick it out for another two years until I know where we’re going to land, or whether it’s okay to put in a little under two years of good work and then possibly leave.

    1. Anon for this one*

      (Meant to clarify the last part: “or whether it’s okay to put in a little under two years of good work AT A NEW JOB and then possibly leave.”

    2. Four lights*

      I don’t see a problem. The fact is, no one has a crystal ball. If you’d hired movers for three months from now, maybe that would be different… but you’re not 100% certain when the PhD program will finish, and you’re not certain where you’ll end up.

      Or something could happen causing you to leave early anyway…people get sick, or injured.

    3. Birch*

      Go for the new job. Don’t make plans based on a PhD that’s projected to be finished in 2 years. PhDs almost always take longer than planned for, and you don’t know how long it’s going to take your partner to find a position after that or whether you even would have to move. And you really don’t want to risk resentment setting in if your partner takes longer to finish or if you don’t move after all–in which case you could have been working at a better job all that time! A lot can change in 2 years for both of you, and there’s no sense putting off a positive change in your life waiting for the unknown.

    4. Rey*

      Turnover is such a normal and expected thing that most managers should plan for, because employees don’t always give two weeks notice, and its just bad organizational planning to not cross-train anyone. I think anything less than one year would depend on the field, but two years (and the possibility that it might be longer) is definitely fine. And you have to do what’s right for your mental health and your own career opportunities to gain new skills and connections and hopefully move up.

    5. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Oh hey, person in almost my former situation! Here’s what happened to me:

      When we moved for my partner’s PhD, I took my job with me. A few months later, after I had been in that job for only about 14 months, I got this Supposedly Amazing job that sucked the life out of me, and about 20 months later I basically quit without notice (you could also say I quit before I got fired). I job-searched for four months and found a gig that I enjoy and am growing in. It’s not the greatest, but it beats the former hell hole.

      It’s been almost two years. We’re about 95% sure we’re leaving at the end of this year but we have absolutely no idea where we’re going. There is a chance I can do this job remotely, so I’m just doing the best I can until we know for sure where we’ll be and what our circumstances are. I could never have stuck it out at that last place; a job that makes you anxious and overly stressed is not worth it if you have other options. I took my current job knowing full well that I may leave it, and what’s more, the hiring committee knew that too, but it’s a much better place to be.

      So: look for a new job, and take it if you get it. You may end up in a position you can take with you, but you’ll never know unless you start looking. And moving is a perfectly solid reason to leave a job after less than two years. Go for it!

    6. Psyche*

      I don’t think it would be a problem. First off, you don’t know for sure that you will have to leave, it just seems likely. Secondly, two years is a respectable amount of time. You could try to focus on companies that have a lot of branches that you may be able to transfer to or that have a lot of remote employees, but I don’t think that is necessary.

  101. Master Bean Counter*

    I have named a certain coworker sportball guy, as he is obsessed with sports. Yesterday I found out that the rest of the office has another name for him. He is known as the farter.

    I now feel much better about my nickname for him. I also feel lucky because when he comes to my office he parks in the door and leaves his rear in the hallway.

  102. A.L.*

    I think I’m getting a promotion. The higher-ups had a meeting this morning to discuss advancement for everyone (it happens on a set schedule). Right after the meeting let out, my boss came in, gave me a high five, and walked out without saying a word. He’s never done anything like that before. My review is coming up and I’ll find out for sure then, but am I reading too much into this?

    2. nonegiven*

      If someone came in and put their hand up like that, I’d probably try to shield myself with my arms in front of my head.

  103. BeanCat*

    Jumping in – I normally avoid the discussions because one of my obsessions/anxious fears is that someone will recognize my descriptions and know it’s me and I’ll get fired despite not saying anything negative. (I also posted about OCD last week, which is the connection there.) But I’m trying to fight that off and become part of the community!

    I’m really happy because I’ve been receiving a lot of great kudos at work. People are very thankful for the work I do at reception for them, and I try to do whatever I can to solve their problems. It makes me feel useful and that makes me happy.

    Though I wore a literal hole in the sole of my expensive work shoes after only six months; there’s currently tissue filling it. Any suggestions for reasonably priced professional shoes? Thank you!

    1. NoLongerYoungButLotsWiser*

      Is the sole such that it can be fixed by a cobbler (depends on the shoe, I know). There are a few around….
      Also, I’ve had good luck with finding a brand, size, style I like, then ordering off eBay (second choice, Nordstrom’s rack if you are in the US). I also try to alternate two pairs, every other day, to let them air out in between… they last longer that way. Apparently I have sweaty feet.

    2. Jean (just Jean)*

      I shop for shoes online at 6pm (dot com) or zappos (dot com). You can restrict your search for shoes (men/women/children) by size, width, and other features and once the search results arrive you can sort them from lowest to highest price. You still have to wait for delivery, try them on, send back whatever does not fit and remember to do all this within whatever the time limit is…but after a while you learn which designs or brands are best or worst for your feet and your life. It’s a pain but better than running from store to store, and the savings are good.

  104. Teapot Painter*

    Background before I ask my 2 questions:

    I left a job last year that was very damaging to my mental and physical health(anxiety messed up my body and I’m still not 100% better). I am now in a GREAT job where I am treated like an adult: CEO says “Thank you” almost every day, the work is fulfilling, everyone is very laid back, the money is steady and good, benefits are great, etc. This job is several states away and closer to my family too.

    Drawback: I am still very angry at my former employers for the way they treat their employees and run their business. Now knowing how a job in this niche industry can be and should be, it’s ridiculous how they do things. I haven’t spoken to my former employers since I left(former boss texted me a few months later, I responded but only coolly). I have no reason to speak to them, and I am afraid that if I were to run into them I’d have to work really hard to be civil. However, I am in a niche field(think Teapot painting), and I have and will run into some people at yearly conferences who do and will know my former employers.

    Recently a friend back in the town where I used to work asked me for recommendations for teapot painters. I had a hard time answering her because while I know that my former company did good teapot painting, I was trained to only recommend my company for teapot painting. I still for some reason felt an urge to recommend my company, even though I am not sure I want to based on my experiences as an employee. This was also motivated by knowing that it is very likely my friend could run into my former employers in her line of work as well.

    My questions are: 1)Have I burned a bridge per se by not keeping in touch?
    2)How do I answer when friends in the region ask for teapot painters?
    3)How have any of you recovered from similar situations?

  105. Mary Dempster*

    Is there EVER a situation where friending your boss on social media (Instagram, specifically) is OK?

    My boss was a team member and then got promoted, so many people were already friends with her. We’re all in our 30s+, and no one ever has those partying pictures you want to hide from your boss kind of thing – all our instagram accounts are our kids + hiking/biking/skiing pictures. So there’s nothing on there I would be embarrassed to show her, and I end up having to share the pictures with her in person anyway, as she wants to see.

    So is this situation OK, or still best to stick with the “never” policy?

    1. Roja*

      I think I’ve been friends with almost all of my bosses thus far. I don’t love it, admittedly, but it’s just the way it is (they either requested me or we were already friends when I started working for them). I can’t recommend it, but neither has the sky come falling down. So I suppose it depends on your field. Maybe lock down your settings so that they only see the most mundane things?

      1. Mary Dempster*

        It is only mundane things, really! Mainly pictures of my kid, and some of our animals, occasionally a hunted animal but she knows about what I do and support it.

    2. Rey*

      I am very limited on social media and I never friend anyone (employee, coworker, supervisor) that I work with until after one of us leaves that job. This might not have been a big deal originally because you started as team members, but I would unfriend her and stop sharing personal stuff. Yes, it’s fine to talk about family stuff in general at work with my peers, but I hesitate to share too much with my boss. The boss relationship is different because they have to make objective decisions about my work (who gets promotions or raises, who gets reprimanded or corrected, etc.)

    3. Nervous Accountant*

      Not much of an issue at my company. If you get along w the person, we tend to add each other but some are just not active.

      I am friends w a coworker who posted a pic of her baby daughter covered in poop. I like that cw but I had to mute her for the next month or so.

  106. CS Rep By Day, Writer By Night*

    Venting on behalf of my 21 year old daughter this week. :P

    DD (Dear Daughter) got a great job over the summer at a higher-end chain restaurant known primarily for the specific dessert they specialize in (hint hint). Loved her co-workers and managers, excellent working conditions especially for the restaurant industry, and fantastic tips as check totals are typically 3 digits or more. Then two months ago she fractured her foot tripping over something in her dorm room and had to be in a boot for 6 weeks. The restaurant would not allow her to work in the boot, and she was unfortunately 3 weeks shy of the required employment duration to qualify for FMLA. So they terminated her, but did some paperwork to make sure she was put into the re-hireable category, and also told her that they would love to have her back once she was back in a regular shoe, which happened last week.

    When she called back to speak to a manager, she the run-around for several days, and they when they finally called her back they said they weren’t sure they could hire her back because they are currently fully staffed. The poor thing is just devastated and feels super screwed, and while I understand the reality of the rights part-time restaurant workers have, I just feel so bad for her. Supposedly they were supposed to discuss it at a management meeting on Wednesday this week, but she hasn’t heard anything yet. Sooner or later she’s going to have to cut her losses and look for another job though, and can hopefully find something where she can make similar money.

    1. Roja*

      Why on earth wouldn’t they let her work in a boot?

      That really sucks for her. I’m sorry and hope she finds something better stat.

      1. Temperance*

        Waiting tables is a really physical job. I had to wear one for a month last year, and walking was very difficult without trying to carry trays of food/being on my feet for hours.

        The restaurant likely couldn’t take the liability.

        1. CS Rep By Day, Writer By Night*

          Yes, it was for liability reasons. If she had damaged her foot further from it could potentially have turned into a Workman’s Comp case, which they would understandably want to avoid.

      2. CupcakeCounter*

        A lot of restaurants require a certain type of show because of where their employees need to go – working in a boot isn’t going to meet that requirement and she probably shouldn’t have been on it that much anyway.

    2. Rey*

      That sounds really frustrating. I would start looking for a new job now, so that she isn’t at their mercy. If she is interested in going back there, maybe contact her old manager every 6 months or so to ask about opening, but I would start taking action now to move on.

    3. Reba*

      I mean, I get the disappointment but “super screwed” seems like way too strong a reaction. Maybe the supervisor shouldn’t have said they would love to have her back, but that was not a promise. The restaurant needs the number of staff it needs, so of course they hired someone(s) else while she was out. It would be rare for a food service job to be held open for anyone, and I think especially not at a megachain like this. She has some good experience now and should be able to get another service job quickly!

      1. CS Rep by Day, Writer by Night*

        Well, she’s young and still figuring out how the world works. They did a lot of talking about how “they’re all a big family” and “always have each others’s backs”, and she really drank the kool-aid and believed it 100%. She’s definitely a little wiser and hopefully more cynical about that sort of patter going forward.

        1. valentine*

          Couldn’t they have had her host or do something else where she could be seated? They could afford to keep her on and to have her back.

          1. Autumnheart*

            They don’t have seats in the hosting area.

            I understand why your daughter feels jerked around by a place that previously gave her high marks for her performance, but the fact is that this is typical behavior for the service industry, and them not having an opening for a server right now is completely normal and not a commentary against her as a former employee.

            She has valuable server experience and should look for other positions around town. Having a good reference from her former workplace should do her some favors.

  107. NotSoCivilGal*

    I’m not sure if this is more a rant/vent or an appeal for advice, but anyway, there’s a new employee at my work who addresses me fairly often as girl (as in “hey girl how’s it going?”), and somewhat less often, uses other terms like chica, hon, girlfriend (wtaf?!), and sweetheart. My instinct is that the best way to deal with this is just call him out in the moment “hey Fergus please don’t call me that” but I’m super conflict avoidant and I find Fergus particularly intimidating– I’m not sure why, but he’s made me vaguely uncomfortable even before the “girl” thing started, and he very obviously works out a ton, where I’m a diminutive couch potato. I feel petty/tattle-y asking hr to step in, though per my employee handbook and what I know about my employer, I could totally ask them to be like “Fergus, it makes NotSoCivil uncomfortable when you address her by something other than her name. Cut it out.”
    For reference, this is my first job out of college and I’ve been here about a year. It’s overall heavily male dominated and I’m the only woman in my department. Except that I was crazy shy at first, I generally like all my other coworkers and have never felt uncomfortable with any of them.

    Also it’s rainy and chilly and the office is deserted as usual on Fridays and my computer is being annoying and I just want to go home and drink tea and watch Mean Girls.

    1. Rey*

      It’s garbage that women have to deal with this, and I encourage you to see this for the very real sexism that it is. I understand that you feel uncomfortable telling him to knock it off, but I think that is the first step. “Actually, I don’t like nicknames. Use my name.” (Don’t use “please”, you do not want to soften the request so he has an excuse not to take it seriously.) He is counting on you feeling uncomfortable, so that he can keep doing what he wants and exercise this power over you (and make other people take you less seriously). If you need to, practice saying it in a mirror until it feels smooth. Once you have made a clear request “Use my name”, there are some other scripts you can use “We’ve already talked about this” “That’s so weird.” “Why do you call me that?” When delivered calmly and matter of factly, it can highlight that he’s the one exhibiting bad behavior. Or you could also go with path of least resistance and just not respond until he says your name. If he ignores your very reasonable request, think about who at your organization you trust to be supportive (your supervisor, his supervisor, HR) and get them involved.

      1. she was a fast machine*

        This right here is the ideal way to go about it, but if you can’t and the culture is one where you could do this, I’d start looking around and replying with things like “Huh, I don’t see any girls around here!” or “Wow, I didn’t know your girlfriend worked here!”

        Still though the direct method is best, as Rey suggested.

      2. CM*

        Great advice. I would urge you not to go to HR over this as a first step. That may be perceived as you being unable to have a reasonable conversation and trying to get him in trouble.

        I really like your own script: ““Fergus, it makes NotSoCivil uncomfortable when you address her by something other than her name. Cut it out.”

        Pretend you’re your own HR rep and say that! Or pretend Fergus is “girl”ing a friend at work. It’s often easier advocating for someone else than for yourself.

        1. NotSoCivilGal*

          Thanks for the advice y’all!
          Yeah, I was 99.7% sure that going to hr first would be a terrible idea, but I definitely appreciate the feedback confirming that!
          And I definitelyappreciate the range of options and scripts for confronting this dude.

          Thankfully I have good reason to trust that if this were to get escalated for whatever reason, both my boss and grandboss (who has the ultimate say in discipline here) would have my back, so I’m going to try to frame this as a low-stakes opportunity to firm up my spine.

        2. valentine*

          If it helps, refer to yourself in the third person. Hopefully, the words will echo in his head.

      3. Librarian (not using my usual name)*

        Great advice, and I would also recommend that you not smile when you talk to him. Practice in front of a mirror if you need to!

    3. Alianora*

      Hmm, I guess I read this differently than other people because I associate the nicknames you mentioned with a kind of playful/friendly tone, not as an intentional power move. To be clear, even if it is, it’s still totally fine to be uncomfortable about it and want it to stop (it’s still calling unnecessary attention to your gender), and obviously you’re in the best position to judge what his actual intention is. I’m just having a hard time envisioning how he’s saying it so that it’s intimidating.

      Agree with the other commenters that the first step is to clearly let him know not to call you that, then escalate if he persists.

  108. Mrs. Carmen Sandiego JD*

    So the job I mentioned in last thread…turns out they contacted me a week and one day later with an offer. Though, 4 days have passed since said verbal offer, still waiting for the offer package itself, which has yet to materialize.

    Basically:
    Week 1: Interview
    Week 2, day 1: Verbal Offer
    Week 2, day 5: Now, waiting.

    I guess this company likes to take its time? But there’s no rush anyways. I’m also change-averse so this’ll help me adjust. The weird part is, this career change will help me in a lot of ways, but I still worry about whether new coworkers will be nice, what the environment will be like, and there’s only so much Glassdoor can tell a person…

    1. CM*

      This seems like an unusually speedy timeline to me, not like the company is taking its time at all!
      Give it at least a week between the verbal offer and the package.

  109. Applesauced*

    I read a fascinating article today that interviewed a portal working about their job and especially the partnership between the USPS and Amazon – link to follow

    2. AshK434*

      Wow, really interesting. Thanks for sharing. I never thought about the impact Amazon had on USPS even though it seems so obvious.

  110. Janey*

    Leaving my job after only 4 months for a new role. Was initially feeling guilty, till I found out another put in their notice as well. Now, I don’t feel alone in leaving the craziness.

  111. Extra Anon for this one*

    Two weeks ago, I fixed a problem for a coworker on a project they were working on. Important to note here that my office has a very flat structure and this person is one of the longest-term employees in my office but is not necessarily ‘senior’ to me. Then last week in my regular meeting with one of my co-bosses, I was called on the carpet for apparently previously messing up this person’s project so badly that they hadn’t gotten the results they needed on it for several months. I had no idea what any of this was about because as far as I was aware, this project was on ice until we had meetings about how it should move forward. Because I was blindsided and didn’t want to look like I don’t take responsibility, I said don’t remember this but I’m sorry it happened and I will look into what went wrong so we can prevent it happening again.

    I went back to my desk and looked into it, only to discover that I never touched this project! I didn’t mess the thing up because I was never asked to do the thing, which is an important part of my job that my coworker elected to do herself without mentioning or discussing with me at all. She messed up her own project and has now gone to my bosses and blamed me for her error. I did make a small mistake previously for my portion of this project, but had accounted for it and had I been given the chance to do this part of my job, would not have bungled it. I emailed my bosses a reasonably detailed but condensed timeline of what happened and an explanation of what went wrong and what I could do in the future to try and prevent stuff like this (but making it clear that I did not do the thing I was accused of). Yesterday I had a meeting with my other co-boss, who basically said we believe both of you and don’t want to get into this any more, using language indicating that they think we have a catty feud going on. Then this boss proceeded to discuss with me further how I need to slow down when I am preparing things like this so I don’t mess it up, negating what they had just said about “believing” me.

    So aside from trying not to implode from the amount of “crazy woman” stereotyping going on, is there anything I can do to clear my name? Or is it better to drop it? It is making me feel crazy that I am in trouble for something I didn’t do, all because my coworker just said so, apparently without any evidence.

    1. Anon From Here*

      “I’m afraid that apparently I have not made it clear that this error was not, in fact, mine. I am being blamed for the outcome when I am not actually responsible, and I’m not going to put up with that.”

      1. Mephyle*

        Instead of “when I am not actually responsible”, more clearly “…when I actually had no involvement in this portion of the project…”

    2. Temperance*

      You really need to make it clear that you didn’t touch the project. Rather than giving an excuse and timeline, point out that Barb screwed the pooch.

    3. This is the story of a man named Neil Fisk*

      Argh! This is one of my biggest peeves. Allison has written some stuff about it, namely, that mgmt will often assume “it takes two to tango” – because it’s easy and it doesn’t require that mgmt take sides. And you’ll find this assumption throughout our government and our judicial system. For instance, note that when a bank robber is prosecuted, the judge will commonly send the robber *and* the bank’s president to jail – the robber was obviously a criminal, but the bank shares responsibility for tempting bank robbers by keeping so much money around. I’m sure you can easily call to mind any number of other examples.

      Just MHO, but I’m not sure there’s much you can salvage from the current situation.

      I’ll leave you with one suggestion: putting together a timeline and a long explanation isn’t going to help you. Your mgmt – like a lot of mgmt – isn’t going to spend a lot of time trying to understand what happened. In hindsight, your best bet would have been to march back to mgmt and say “hey guys, the project you told me about? I never touched it!” (I’m assuming that that is indeed the truth of it). And then shut up and stand pat. Mgmt likes short, clear sentences.

  112. LargeHippo*

    Has anyone applied for a job while pregnant and what has been the experience? I’m just at my one-year anniversary in a job that I hate but I wanted to stick it out for one year and then start applying elsewhere. When I found out I was pregnant, on top of being very excited, I now feel like I’m stuck in my job. The maternity leave at my current company is laughable but at least I’ll be guaranteed something but I’m not sure I can stick this out for six more months. I’m not really showing but during any interview process I would want to learn about benefits including maternity leave which would give me away. I’d love to hear from others on their thoughts!

    1. Four lights*

      I’ve heard of people interviewing and getting jobs at 8 months pregnant, but I don’t know the details. I would say, interview for jobs you want. I don’t think asking about maternity leave would necessarily give you away, since it’s an important consideration and you could be preparing for down the road. You could also decide to wait until they give you an offer, and then get more info.

    2. Kaitlyn Westlet*

      Congrats on the baby hippo-on-the-way! :-) I interviewed for jobs while pregnant a few years ago and wound up getting one. However, I wasn’t showing a lot during interviews and I’m pretty sure they just thought I was chubby. At some interviews I could tell the women in the room were checking out my midsection to see if I had an obvious bump. But I purposely dressed in clothes that would de-emphasize the belly area.

      I waited until everything was signed and sealed and I was off of my new hire probation period before I told my new employers. Of course, depending on how long you interview/ how far along in your pregnancy you are it might not work out. You can always ask about maternity leave/benefits/insurance/ etc for general info about a compensation plan. I don’t think (reasonable) companies will assume you are pregnant for wanting that info ahead of time.
      Congrats and good luck!

    3. Cheesesteak in Paradise*

      Bear in mind that regardless of what maternity leave benefits they have, you might not qualify for them in your first year of employment. So the risk of switching jobs now is that you may not get any leave, if you are in the US. I guess you could ask about when various benefits kick in but that risks outing yourself…

      1. Clisby Williams*

        Came here to say exactly that. For example, you wouldn’t qualify for FMLA until you had been at the new company for a year. Most companies in the US don’t offer paid parental leave, so that might not be an issue in switching; however, what you could take as sick leave/vacation/short-term disability probably varies pretty widely.

  113. Uncanny Valley*

    Hallway etiquette observation

    Definitely not a big deal more of an interesting observation. I work at a large office complex and by and large, when passing most people in the hallway en route to the restroom, break room, elevator etc., there is usually some measure of acknowledgment, even with people we don’t know personally or encounter daily. After making eye contact, its usually A hello, a nod, thumbs up, a wave, a grin, something to at least note that “I see you”.

    Every so often I pass this one guy who has never even looked at me, as a result, the next customary steps never occur. I am not want to force someone to acknowledge me and again this is no biggie more of an interesting curiosity.

    I have not seen him in a few weeks and just passed him today, I was doing something on my phone, but when I saw that it was him with my peripheral vision, I decided not to waste my time looking in his direction and I could see that he was not going to look at me or acknowledge me as is his custom. I don’t like dealing with others that way but I know sometimes you have to.

    Just to make sure I was not reading the person wrong I asked a co-worker if he noticed anything about this guy. Hearsay I know, but he was told this person is kinda like that with a lot of people.

    But one day I did see him walking down the hall with someone and having a conversation.

    I was like “He does speak!” Then I passed out like the M&M in that holiday commercial . . . . just kidding.

    Just another reminder about the different types of people we encounter in life.

    If the opportunity presents itself to acknowledge him, open the door etc, I am ready. Just wanted to share, I hope all have a great Friday and a great weekend.

    1. Stan Lee (not the famous one)*

      Maybe the guy has Asperger’s Syndrome or some other kind of social phobia. I do, and I feel uncomfortable greeting or returning a greeting from someone I don’t know.

      One time at work someone said hi to me as we passed in the hall. I didn’t know her and thought she was greeting someone behind me, so I just kept walking. She took the unintended snub very personally and in later encounters made plenty of rude, snarky remarks… not exactly making a case for herself as someone I should want to have as a friend.

      1. Uncanny Valley*

        Excellent point, my mindset is to give benefit of doubt before assuming negative intent. Being somewhat shy myself I understand the challenges of social interaction. The line between shyness and rudeness can be blurred. Regardless, if the opportunity to interact as more than ships in the night occurs, I’ll be ready.

        I’m more than open to the possibility that I could be giving of negative vibes as well.
        Thanks for the feedback

      2. valentine*

        There’s no privacy at work or its environs, not even in the bathroom (coworker follows you, possibly talks the entire time you’re in there, regardless of who is where), and any interaction is draining. Consider the passing like two ships in the night your gift to him, a spark of solitude in a noisy world.

    2. Girl friday*

      I know a few guys like this. If you are happy to see them in the hallway, they can feel that energy. That might be enough. And a smile is always good. Just give it time.

  114. Tilly*

    I’m going to apply for my manager’s job. What should I do or not do to make sure I handle the recruitment process as professionally as possible? I mean the process of applying for and waiting to hear if I’ve got the job – I’ll worry about transitioning into the role if and only if that does indeed become relevant.

    My manager is effectively being promoted and a new position is opening up. With slightly different duties in terms of projects and direct reports, but in terms of hierarchy I’ll be applying for my manager’s job. If I’m not successful, I will report to the person who is.

    I’ve decided that, if that happens, I’ll just take it as an opportunity to demonstrate professionalism by working really well with the person who does get the job. I love working here and wouldn’t leave just because I didn’t get a new role the first time I tried – I’m happy to dust myself off and get on with things.

    I don’t plan on telling my peers I’m applying, and will assume I haven’t got it and move on until I hear otherwise. Is there anything else I should be thinking about? Thank you for any advice you can give me!

    1. Elle*

      I would just stay as unemotional as possible and don’t give it tons of attention. Just act like its natural for you to move into the position and no one would have ever thought otherwise. Don’t do that thing people do where they act all shocked and honored to be chosen. Be confident in yourself. And if you don’t get it, act like that’s natural too.

      If this is your first leadership position and you’re nervous about it try giving Jocko Podcast (or his book, Extreme Ownership) a listen. Start from the beginning of his podcast series. His advice on how to lead up and down the chain of command has made a huge difference in my own success as a leader.

  115. matcha123*

    I really hope to move back to the U.S. to a stable job within a few years (2 at most).
    What would you as an employer be looking at from me?
    My current job and the ones I’ve been working at do not lend themselves to the typical “I headed XYZ and achieved ABC” that most job advice articles say you should put in your resume.
    The people that have directly supervised my work have, in general, been people who are also contract employees and my supervisors have been shuffled around every few months. I don’t have any authority to propose projects, supervise anyone or really do anything that shows “growth.” I also don’t get raises or promotions.
    In general I am given a task (translation) and I complete that task with in a set amount of time (usually a few hours to a week depending on length), the translation is written over and checked by everyone on our team and the final product is sent off to whoever made the request. My name appears on nothing. In some cases I’ve been able to suggest things that can speed up my work or help with other areas of the office.

    How would you, someone in the US who is looking at my resume probably for a non-translation job, want to see my work history?

    1. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      If you’re still reading :)

      It sounds like you have lots to put on your resume. I tend to think that people should think about annual goals when they are putting together their resume.

      Translation: completed X% within deadline (average 2 days)
      Worked at 98% accuracy level (or something like this, might need to be something like “Below average rewrites/corrections” or something like that.
      Contributed to special projects A, process improvement B, etc.
      Ability to prioritize average of 5 translation deadlines simultaneously

      In other words, what are the things that people look for in non translation jobs pretty much the same thing as translation jobs without the translation, we want someone who can work without hand holding, can do the job accurately, can learn new skills, can meet deadlines, can branch out as needed, and all of those things that it sounds like you are doing. And all of the normal, I know how to use common software and all that other stuff.

      Think of this way, if someone walked up to you with a briefcase full of cash and said this is yours if you can demonstrate to me that you are all the things above, how would you demonstrate them?

      Good luck!

  116. Lcsa99*

    Not sure this is the right place, but I have a question for anyone who has worked retail in drug stores like Rite Aid, Walgreens and Duane Reede… why are simple items like bath soap locked up? I can understand razors and even cold medicines, but why do I need to feel like you’re gonna suspect I’m a thief if I want to buy some simple body wash? I actually just left a store because I didn’t want to give my money to someone who would treat customers that way, so I can’t imagine it being a benefit.

    1. Four lights*

      It’s probably their most commonly stolen item. They’re able to track that. A Walmart near me has false eyelashes locked up.

    2. Kaitlyn Westlet*

      It’s been a few years since I worked in retail pharmacy, so I can only tell you what I remember. We had a real problem with theft (even of cheap stuff, like soap, etc) and the district managers always blamed it on the store managers. We we continually short staffed so just helping customers was hard- let alone preventing theft.

      In stores like these, often the money maker is the pharmacy part. The rest of the store is kept afloat by the pharmacy, so that’s where the resources and staff are focused. However, it is so frustrating as a customer. The worse is having to ask for something like KY or astroglide to be unlocked!!

    3. The Librarian (not the type from TNT)*

      I HATE this. I go out of my way to avoid patronizing drug stores that do this (they’re normally obscenely overpriced anyway) and instead go to Target, supermarkets, etc.

      I can also understand locking up razors, small and expensive boxes of medication, or anything electronic. But bath soap? Most of those bottles are pretty large and conspicuous.

    4. she was a fast machine*

      At the dollar stores around here, the entire bath and body aisles are lined with the little alarm things where to get something out you have to lift the lid which sounds an alarm. It’s horrible and so embarrassing for the people who have to shop there, to be treated like a thief all the time, but that is the reason why. Desperate people will steal what they need, and bath soap is one of those things.

      1. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

        This is why I don’t go to the drugstore with my husband. He’ll open the little flap and the buzzer/alarm will sound. Then he’ll spend the next 10 minutes with his razors in the air saying very loudly “THAT WAS ME.. THAT ALARM YOU JUST HEARD. .. JUST ME GETTING RAZORS. NOTHING GOING ON. WILL BE PAYING FOR THESE RIGHT AFTER I PICK UP MY ATHLETES FOOT POWDER. IT WAS ME GETTING RAZORS. NO NEED TO PANIC… NOT STEALING ANYTHING”

        Did I mention he’s a tall big guy? So even standing still he’s not subtle. Wandering around booming in a loud voice he’s downright unmistakable.

        I’m no help because I’m usually pretending I don’t know him and will point at him and ask if he’s stealing because I heard an alarm.

        How we are still allowed in our local drug store I’m not sure, we must be entertaining for the employees.

    5. Anon From Here*

      Ubiquitous in stores, impossible to trace, easy to convert to cash (everyone uses soap). It mirrors the reasoning around stealing a Camry or Accord instead of a Maserati. There are more of them parked in the street, they all look the same, and the parts are in demand and easy to sell.

  117. WhosAnonymous?MeMeMe*

    So a few weeks ago I wrote about serious negative health news and when to tell my boss. Had a specialist dr appt this week and now more tests! But I’m now mentally in the space where I know I can’t keep working 50 hour weeks with assorted night and weekends. After the next set of tests I’ll meet with boss about exit strategy. Any thoughts re tapering vs a cleaner exit? I do have a spouse who is employed, so that helps!

    1. Rey*

      I hope everything works out for the best with your health stuff. I assume that a cleaner exit would be better for your health stuff. If you can give two weeks, that’s the most anyone should expect, and when you meet with your boss, concretely state “During the next two weeks, I will write up documentation for my replacement because I won’t be available for anything beyond my last day.”

  118. Kaitlyn Westlet*

    I’d love some insight from those of you who have worked in a small office (less than 10 people) and/or for a trade association. For reference: I usually work 7:30 to 4:30 since I have two little kids at home and a 45 minute commute.

    Everyone seems happy with my work, but I am always the first person to leave and I have much less flexibility when an afternoon meeting goes late or there is a dinner with board members. Our director, president and/or a couple of board members will have a casual drink or two together at the office occasionally in the evening and of course, I am never here for that.
    I wonder if this “evening culture” will mean I have trouble moving up the career ladder here. I feel like I miss out on a lot of casual interactions with higher ups and I don’t have as much face time with board members as some of my collogues do. Our association is very politically minded and has a sort of “it’s all about who you know” type of approach to everything. I don’t know the big players and haven’t had a lot of natural opportunities to interact with them.

    I love my job and coworkers, but sometimes I feel like I will always be on the fringes of things given my current life stage. Is this even a thing? Any thoughts/advice/suggestions? Thanks!

    1. Four lights*

      One thing you could do is try to plan occasional days when you are able to stay late and schmooze.

    2. I hate office politics*

      Another question is, do you even want to move up in the organization? It could mean more late night, evening culture.

      Are you happy with your current role as it stands right now? If you want to move up, could you do that at another organization?

    3. Lcsa99*

      From my experience working in small office (granted, in administrative positions) the big problem is that there aren’t any jobs to move up to! Sometimes if they like you enough they can create something, or if they are starting to grow, but the chances of moving anywhere in a small business is so slim, regardless of things like whether you stay late.

    4. BRR*

      I’m in a similar situation and while I don’t think it’s given me a lot of trouble, I think it has required a little more effort on my part. I try and do the occasional evening (very occasional). I also try and send some emails early in the morning so people remember that while I don’t stay as late, I’m there much earlier.

  119. Hei Hei, the Chicken from Moana*

    I’m a senior manager reporting to a director, and I have a coordinator who reports to me. She’s been at my organization longer than me and is about 10 years older than me. We used to be about on the same level, but she’s stayed relatively in the same place professionally in the last 8 years where I’ve definitely grown. My director and I have been frustrated with her stagnancy and have addressed as much as we can, but she hasn’t really excelled. My role in the organization has also changed somewhat to meet rising business needs, which means my support needs to be a bit different as well and I could really use the help. This has been exacerbated by the addition of two rockstars to our department staff which have shown us what is possible. My coordinator is great at certain things, but she’s very highly paid for her position and can’t advance nor does she really have the chops to do so on top of not great verbal or written communication skills. My director confirmed that her position will be getting the axe at some point so that we can create a position to better suit my position’s needs. I don’t know the details of what’s going on yet, but I FEEL HORRIBLE. I am fairly certain it’s the right thing to do, but it’s SHITTY. This happened to me a my last organization and it was awful. I was wrecked for years and it’s taken a lot of work to move past that and I was younger/newer in my career. Any advice is appreciated.

    1. fposte*

      Oh, that’s not easy. Are there things you can do to prepare her for and help her with the transition? Can you give her severance pay? It sounds like this might not be a big enough org to find a place for her elsewhere within it, but do you have networking information and connections to share?

      1. Hei Hei, the Chicken from Moana*

        I did ask my boss if we would be able to be references and she said yes, so the answer is yet to at least networking and connections. I’ll do everything I can to help her. I don’t think she’s been happy here for a long time either, and I think ultimately this will be great for her but it’s gonna hurt. I’m sure she’ll get severance, but she’s been at the org for so long she’s got tons of vacation that they’ll pay her out for. Thank you!

    2. she was a fast machine*

      It’s hard but this will likely be better for her in the long run, since it will give her a chance to find a role that really will work for her style and needs. I’ve worked with some people in her shoes and it becomes such a struggle to advance as an org when someone is completely settled and comfortable exactly where they are and they don’t want to make any changes.

    3. Moving on*

      That definitely doesn’t sound easy. From what you’ve described, this coordinator is a decent employee, she’s just not “Rock Star” and you are looking for “Rock Star.” Maybe she can be that “Rock Star” to some other organization and be a better fit there. She may even get a title bump and a pay raise at her next place!

    5. NW Mossy*

      It’s good-hearted of you that you feel for her, but know this too: as long as you’ve been clear about expectations for what she needs to do to grow, her stagnation is, to a significant degree, her choice. It’s a passive choice of inaction rather than action, but it’s still a choice.

      It’s a risk to put yourself out there for another role, push yourself to get better in certain areas, learn new skills, or adapt to changing business needs. However, the payoff for those gambles and the stress of feeling less than solid in one’s position is coming out on the other side of with more capability than you had going in. You took those risks, and it paid off for you because you’ve risen in the organization.

      She didn’t, and that’s a choice that comes with risks too. You just identified the biggest one – that the organization changes in such a way that what she’s built her role around is no longer as necessary as it used to be. People sometimes end up do the same role the same way for years because they feel safe and comfortable, but the failure to invest in growth is kind of like failing to maintain a house – it’s fine at first, but gradually, things work less and less well until there comes a point where you look around and realize you’re the saddest house on the block.

      The world never holds still for us, no matter how much we might want it to. Hopefully she finds a soft landing, but know that it’s as much her responsibility (or really a bit more) than it is yours.

  120. Cat Wrangler*

    Resume question.

    Short version: I want to break into a specific type of role in my industry, I’ve done most aspects of the role in small-scale capacities via taking on additional work in other roles I’ve done. Is it okay to put something like “Associate Cat Toy Designer – Acting Associate Cat Wrangler” on my resume? And, if it is, what would be the best way to do that?

    Longer version:
    I have spent the past several years working towards breaking into a particular role in my industry. My applications keep getting rejected with the only real feedback I’m getting being that I don’t have enough experience. The issue is that I am applying for the lowest level positions that fall under that particular role in my industry (Associate Cat Wrangler & Cat Wrangler Assistant).

    I recognize, of course, that the feedback I’m getting is probably not painting a full picture. And that there are almost certainly a bunch of candidates who DO have the experience and are therefore better qualified, or that the “not enough experience” could just be a polite way of giving them an out if they’re not interested in hiring me. That’s fine! But it’s a consistent enough response, and I’d like to rectify it.

    I’ve done Cat Wrangling tasks as part of several of my other roles, mostly though informing previous managers and Cat Wranglers for my team that my career ambitions are in Cat Wrangling and asking if there are areas that I might be able to help out. I, of course, include the things I’ve accomplished in Cat Wrangling on my resume under the appropriate job I worked and make sure to mention my interest and emphasize the experience I DO have with Cat Wrangling into my cover letters.

    Compounding all of this is that most of the low level jobs in my industry are short-term contract work (usually 9-12 months, with a maximum of 18 before you have to take several months off from working for that particular company) so it’s not easy to transition to a different role during your tenure at a company. I’m keeping an eye out for low-level Cat Wrangler positions at companies I’ve worked with before, since that would likely give me the best shot at getting them, but none are currently hiring.

    What I’d like to do, is indicate in some way that I’ve been an Acting Associate Cat Wrangler in some of my previous positions, since that’s exactly what has happened. But I don’t know really how to go about doing that. The most straightforward way, to me, would be to list a title as something like “Associate Cat Toy Designer – Acting Associate Cat Wrangler” but I’m not sure if that’s confusing for people to look at. Would that (or something similar, doesn’t have to be exactly this) be too strange?

    Any thoughts/advice would be welcome.

    1. Reba*

      I think it depends in part on how regimented titles are at these previous gigs. If a reference-checker called up a former supervisor, would the title change get you in trouble there? “What? no, we don’t do acting appointments / Hmm, no we never had her down as cat wrangler” — looking like you’re lying about a job would obviously be an app-killer. But, if you’re contracted on things without much formalization of what people are called, it might be better to put a more general job title with areas of focus. I do think the two very specific job titles stuck together as you have here are confusing. Whereas I think “Feline Contractor — Toy design, Cat wrangling” is more intelligible? IDK.

      This might be a good line of questioning — not the resume writing alone but the whole getting into the specialty — with an informational interview or informal mentorship chat.

    2. Troutwaxer*

      I think you’d write something like:

      POSITION: ASSOCIATE IN CHARGE OF DOING STUFF
      Duties: Doing stuff, cat wrangling, cat toy design, doing still more stuff, etc.

  121. something*

    Would it be inappropriate to give my manager a gift on her birthday?
    I’m a fairly new employee and I haven’t really developed a close enough relationship to my other coworkers to consider giving them a gift on their birthdays. However, my manager has been great to me this past couple of months and I really appreciate her. Is this a bad idea? What I’ve noticed in my few months working here is that birthdays aren’t really recognized beyond a “happy birthday” and maybe some donuts. I know keeping a professional relationship is recommended and I wonder if my actions will blur the line negatively.

    1. Kaitlyn Westlet*

      Have you thought about doing something small, but make it meaningful with a handwritten note? For example, a coffee mug, decorative notepad or a potted plant, with a pretty card telling her that you really appreciate how great she has been to you and has made your work life so much easier, etc. Gifting to managers can be awkward but a token gift along with some sincere thanks/kudos is usually welcomed.

    2. Bluebell*

      I’d say a really nice card with a personal note is great. Not obtrusive and I’m sure they’ll appreciate it.

    3. BRR*

      I think a card is a great go to for gifting up situations. Maybe if you bake you could bring in a treat, but that might establish precedent and also come off as brown nosing.

    4. Blue Eagle*

      If you are fairly new, I would NOT give a gift to a manager. As a manager, I would appreciate a card with a note written in it, but would give a strong nix on a gift (even a token gift). Giving a gift is always fraught with future expectations – is the manager expected to give you a similar gift on your birthday, will there be an expectation of a gift next year, etc. etc. I agree with the above posters that the best way to go is a card.

  122. L.M.S.*

    Am I doing people a disservice by not providing a LinkedIn reference?

    Last year I lead a group of grad student interns on a project at work. They were great to work with and the project exceeded expectations, so I offered to provide them all with a professional reference moving forward. A couple of months ago, one of them- we will call him Joe- reached out to me for a written endorsement for his LinkedIn profile. Nobody has ever asked me for one before. I’m totally against LinkedIn references and skill endorsing, as they don’t hold any validity due to the fact that anyone can do them. I have a cousin who solicits references from friends and people he has never worked with! Additionally, I was extremely busy at that point, so I saw it largely as a waste of my time. I told Joe that I wasn’t going to write a statement for LinkedIn and explained my reasoning (aside from the part where I was too bust), but reiterated that I was still happy to provide a professional reference during his job search. Joe got a little upset, and said that he won’t be contacting me for a reference moving forward.

    Did I do the wrong thing? In hindsight, I probably should have just sucked it up and wrote a few sentences for him, but I truly don’t like or agree with the reference system on LinkedIn.

    2. DAMitsDevon*

      As someone who recently finished grad school, I’d say, no, you’re fine. I think you could have mentioned being too busy as being one of the reasons why you couldn’t write a LinkedIn endorsement for him at that moment, and even just saying “I’m too busy right now” should have been understandable. But if you already offered to be a professional reference for him, he should just be happy enough that you offered to provide him with a more useful reference than a LinkedIn endorsement.

  123. To connect or not to connect?*

    I work for a small company where, recently, the director my manager reported to was let go. I’ve heard negative things about him, but I never had to work with him directly and on a personal level he was always kind and friendly to me. My question is: would it be appropriate to connect with him on linkedin considering (a) I don’t really know him on a professional level, and (b) I may have inappropriate feelings for him?

    If it is okay for me to reach out to him, what would be the right thing to say (a) considering he was recently let go, and (b) without coming off like a stalker who has inappropriate feelings for him?

    1. she was a fast machine*

      I honestly can’t see a legitimate reason to connect with him since you didn’t work with him directly or even in passing. But I am not a linkedin expert so take that with a grain of salt.

    2. CM*

      These are two very different questions!

      I think connecting on LinkedIn is fine. You could also send him a LinkedIn or email message saying you’d love to have coffee sometime.

      As to whether you should act on your inappropriate feelings in other ways… that’s between you, your conscience, and your state laws.

  124. I Work on a Hellmouth*

    An update from the Hellmouth (letter linked) , for those that were interested:

    Many non-property management applications are now out and circulating in the wild (mostly for HR jobs). We’ve had to call the police twice since my letter was posted (first $3,000 worth of equipment was stolen, then someone tore the doors off of the garage where our a/c units are stored and sliced them up to steal the copper from them). While trying to have lunch outside this week I have had (on different days) things thrown at me by a squirrel, been attacked by a yellow jacket while tiny jumping spiders simultaneously jumped on to ME, and also had large rando bugs that MAYBE were some sort of shield/stink bugs drop into my lap from out of nowhere. So yeah, it’s basically more of the same.

    The newest work challenge is mistakes being made in the system for the month by me because the manager left out key steps when training me on how to do certain tasks last month. Manager, however, says that I should have known to go and do these (never discussed, counter-intuitive, no-way-to-know-about-them) steps and that I need to be more careful because she can’t carry my weight. I tried to address the… no-ness of this with her, as well as the fact that many of the projects (or the deadlines for them) that are being assigned to me are actually impossible for anyone to complete, but the basic gist of her response was that I was just going to have to do better/be perfect and also be ready to take on more tasks. Additionally, she is doing things like telling me that I need to complete a set of tasks by EOD on 11/1 (which was also the date and time listed in the shared Outlook calendar appointment/reminder that she personally set) , and then telling me mid-morning on 10/31 that the tasks should have been finished no later than that same morning and that I had been aware of that (uh, no).

    So, you know, not the MOST positive update, but hey… I’m actively out and looking!

    1. The Librarian (not the type from TNT)*

      Wow. Thank you for the update – but much more importantly, I hope you’re able to get out really soon!

  125. Jessica*

    Weird to use your boss’s wife as a career coach?

    After having a career check in with my boss, I asked him if his wife could recommend any career coaches because she is one herself. I figured she might know people or at least have tips on where to find one and how to work with them. He was open to the conversation and even said his wife might be a good fit, if I would be comfortable with the link. Now he has added that she would even be willing to see me for free, as she reserves a few spots for pro-bono work. So it is a tempting offer.

    Part of my reason for seeking a career coach is because I want a raise, and am thinking about presenting my current employer with an offer I have from a different company in the hopes they will match. However I do not want to leave my current company – so I need to be careful with how I play it and likely won’t present it to them at all. Beyond that, my boss and I have very different approaches, strengths and personality. I think he sees my difference in approach as weaknesses. I would like to work with a career coach on how to better work with my boss and highlight my strengths better. There’s plenty of other areas I want to work on, completely unrelated to my boss/company – purely about my personal growth.

    All this is to ask – is it weird to see your boss’s wife as a career coach? Will this backfire? Will it not be useful because I might feel the need to sensor myself? Or will she discourage me from ‘demanding’ what I am worth because I’d essentially be negotiating with her husband? Or maybe she will have especially useful insights because she has an understanding of my company/job/boss.

    1. Llellayena*

      I think it’s probably a little too awkward for all the reasons you mention. But it also sounds like your boss understands that it might be awkward and won’t hold it against you if you say no. I’d say stick with the original request, and ask if she can recommend someone else.

  126. AnonAnon*

    How much “managing” should I do with a struggling colleague who works on my project but doesn’t report to me?

    An admin who works on my project makes a LOT of mistakes. For example: When I asked her to schedule meetings with two outside partners, she completely forgot to schedule one of them and the other she dropped halfway through the process… so neither got scheduled. On other occasions she’s scheduled large public events on days that the main speaker is unavailable, neglected to schedule meetings entirely, scheduled meetings I will be running at times that I am in other meetings, forgotten to invite everyone who should be invited to a program session, and neglected other projects entirely.

    I’ve addressed each of these with her as they have happened, with a focus on resolution rather than management or coaching. (That is: I’ve followed up to check on the status of the scheduling request, reminded her what needs to happen, asked what’s gotten in the way, etc. I haven’t addressed anything the way her manager might: “I need to be able to trust that when I give you an assignment you will get it done, without me having to follow up on it constantly. Is that something you can do?”) I’ve told her manager about the ongoing problems, but he hasn’t taken any action.

    … should I be leaning more toward those “management” type conversations with her? Or is there something else I should be doing?

    1. Tilly*

      Can you talk to the person who does actually manage her? It sounds like they need to know about these issues.

      1. AnonAnon*

        I have, as have others. He is either doing nothing or it’s not having any impact. (He’s in the C suite. She’s his EA, who has some of her time dedicated to my project because he’s the executive sponsor. I’m sure managing her directly is pretty low on his list of priorities.)

    2. BRR*

      It’s risky to have a management type conversation. I’ve done it recently but I’m sort of waiting for possible blow back. I think the friendliest approach would be pointing out the issues and asking if there’s anything you can do that would help her? Could you ask to swap her out with someone else?

    3. The New Wanderer*

      Those sound like really, really basic mistakes, and I’m surprised she still has a job if that’s representative of her work product for the C-suite guy. In any case, I would skip any more corrections for her and go straight to asking to have another admin assigned to the project. I would use the phrasing you mention in support of that request: “I need to be able to trust the person to do these tasks without having to follow up on it constantly, and right now Suzie’s work is causing me X hours in corrections, reschedules, and repeated requests before it’s done correctly. Is there someone else I can have assigned to perform these tasks?”

  127. Deja Anon*

    I am looking for some script ideas on how to handle a specific awkward interaction in the office. I am a middle-aged woman with seniority on the team but no managerial standing. He is a man, older than I am but a fairly new employee. He has never done or said anything that’s inappropriate enough to take to management, but due to our respective genders and ages there are a lot of interactions that make me bite my tongue to keep from blurting “Thanks, but I have a father already.”

    For instance, he “didn’t have a lot of opportunities to give me orders, but he was ordering me to have a good time” the day before I left on vacation. Or when I’m listening to podcasts while I work (one of the perks in this office) he’ll lean over, look at the topic I’m listening to, and comment on it. Never nasty comments, but… dude! Stop looking over my shoulder!

    Any ideas of things to say on occasions like this?

    1. CM*

      I think being unresponsive is the way to go — don’t laugh or smile, just say, “Uh, yeah, OK,” or don’t react at all to unwanted conversation and turn back to your work. With the podcast, you could pretend you didn’t hear his comment — take your headphones out and say, “Did you have something you wanted to talk to me about?” And you can offset this by being friendly on your own terms — you could ask how his weekend was, but as soon as he starts giving you advice you can go back to, “Oh, OK, see you later.”

    2. she was a fast machine*

      You could lean into the “Are you okay?” thing whenever he’s inserting himself into what you’re doing. Possibly with the insinuation that something might be wrong with him if he thinks it’s his business.

      I dunno, I had a boss like that one time and it was awkward as hell. I put my foot down when he started calling me honey and reported him to grandboss.

    3. Close Bracket*

      For the leaning over the shoulder, try something like, “Dude! Personal space!” Yeah, that’s pretty blunt, but go ahead and call out the awkwardness, and don’t let calling it out be more awkward than him leaning over your shoulder. If you want to be more politic, you could say, “Fergus, if you want to know what I am listening to, please ask. Don’t lean over me like that. I don’t like it.”

  128. LJay*

    So I was thinking about this since it happened and I don’t feel great about it.

    But now the post this morning has me even more confused.

    My company ships a lot of things via a nationwide freight shipping company.
    That company is currently in the midst of labor negotiations.
    They are anticipating a work stoppage soon.

    Our rep, a management level employee and not part of the union – came to warn us about the impending labor action a couple days ago. And suggested that in order to prevent our items from being stuck in the work stoppage, that we ship them on the other, nationwide carrier until this is sorted.

    I do still need to ship the things that I need to ship. They’re all time sensitive.

    Obviously I do not want my company’s stuff sitting in a shipping hub untouched somewhere during the strike. That would be really bad for my company and me personally.

    But is it undermining their labor action to remove our business from them during that time? Is it really a work stoppage if all the work has been preemptively removed? Or is it supporting their action since the company will not get our business during that time, is inconvenienced by having to run around and warn us about it, make up any shortfalls we will experience on our volume contracts, has had to recommend that we use their main competitor, etc?

    I just feel weird about going along with what a management level employee has asked us to do in a labor stoppage situation.

    1. I Work on a Hellmouth*

      Well… wouldn’t your company possibly be helping the striking workers by going elsewhere? Losing business would be a reason for the company to negotiate with the workers, right?

    2. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      This is pretty much exactly what the workers that are striking/stopping work want to have happen: demonstrate that the business will lose customers and money and business if the workers aren’t treated well.

      Go ahead and send your mailings through the other shipping company — that’s best for your company and the workers.

    3. Freight Biz*

      I work in the transportation industry. Yes,the shipping company knows that they will lose business because of the strike/work stoppage. They will leverage this against the union as a way to get them to sign the new contract and avoid a strike. All of said shipping company’s competitors are bracing themselves to pick up this business plus preparing their own scripts foe when their own union contracts come up.

    4. Jane*

      That’s pretty much the goal of the strike–to stop business.

      You do what you gotta do! If they aren’t going to be able to carry out their shipments, then go with the other company.

  129. greentea*

    Bizarre 401k transfer experience here. Anyone experience anything like this? Any advice?

    Had a 401k with my old employer (I worked for local government of a major US city). Filled out the paperwork to transfer it to my new employer’s plan. The City sent the rollover check directly to the investment company used by my new employer. The investment company is a newer investment firm that starts with a “B” and rhymes with “letter mint.”

    The rollover check was either lost in transit or lost by the recipient (who I’ll call Lettermint.) The City has a copy of the check and confirmed it was made out properly and was sent to the address provided by Lettermint.

    The City said they could reissue the check, but Lettermint needs to sign a stop payment form to attest they didn’t receive the check. I sent that form to the Lettermint, and they have refused to sign it, stating they are uncomfortable with the language.

    The nice person I’m working with at the City escalated it to the city’s treasury department, but they are not budging–the Lettermint must sign the stop payment form.

    It’s basically an Old West standoff at this point, and this has been going on for 6 months. I have no access to this money because the City will not reissue a check to anyone, even a new investment firm, until Lettermint attests they did not receive the check.

    The HR person at my current job sided with Lettermint, stating he wouldn’t sign the stop payment form either. When I spoke to him about it in person, he got defensive and prickly, asking “Well, where is this check?!” and saying that he’s dealt with many lost rollover checks, and the sender usually just voids and reissues it. I’ve remained calm and polite during the months of back and forth emails, but he characterized me as “upset” in an email to Lettermint.

    I have NO idea what to do at this point. I fear and dread I might have to take some kind of legal action to get access to this money. I’m hoping to avoid that.

    This is the language on the form, and it also requires notarization:

    I, ____, being first duly sworn upon oath, depose and say that I am the proper owner, bearer, or legal representative of such owner or payee of the instrument described above and that the same has been lost or destroyed and has not been paid. If I should obtain the missing check and cash the same, inadvertently or knowingly, I agree to repay to the City the face amount of such check. If I do not repay that amount the City may commence legal action to collect those funds or may withhold that amount from moneys due and owing to me by the City until such debt is fully repaid.
    Payee sign here:

    1. fposte*

      Contact EBSA and ask them for guidance. If you Google “Employee Benefits Security Administration” it’ll get you there. They’re the federal office that oversees 401ks, and they’re very easy to talk to, but employers really don’t want to mess with them.

    2. There's Always Money in the Banana Stand*

      As a person who works in banking, that language seems pretty standard to me. Cashier’s checks and some other types of official checks (I’m assuming that’s what the city issued–based on your description of the situation) can’t actually have a stop pay placed on them. We say that you can, but in all actuality, you can’t. So if the city reissued a check and it was negotiated, and then Lettermint suddenly found the old check and negotiated it, it would clear twice, and the city would be out that money. So the language about promising to pay the city back is really just covering their butts in a worst-case scenario. I feel like Lettermint should know this.

      1. greentea*

        That’s what I thought–that the language is just saying you can’t cash both checks, and if you accidentally do, you must pay back the extra money. It seems like an ethical no-brainer. Lettermint has not shared why they object to this language.

        My only thought (and this might not be accurate) is maybe Lettermint is concerned a third party will find and cash the check maliciously, although I’m not sure how an individual could cash a check made out to a financial institution.

        My contact at the city’s retirement department (who is not in accounting or treasury), floated the idea of me signing the form, which scares me. (She’s not sure if the city will even accept this idea, though.) If Lettermint does find and cash the original check, it seems like I’d be on the hook for repaying the overage if I sign that form myself.

  130. Olympia*

    I work in a field where there is a nationally agreed pay scale and grading system, so roles are graded based on the types of duties and responsibilities, and all roles at that grade receive the same level of pay. I work in, let’s call it Teapot Support, at a very large organisation, which has many different departments, all of which will usually have their own Teapot Support Team.

    A few months ago, another department advertised for a Teapot Support role, at the next higher grade up from mine. The job description was basically identical to mine — everything on it was stuff that I was already doing in my role. My manager at the time showed me the job advertisement, and encouraged me to apply for it, since it was the next higher grade up and would be a step up in salary. She pointed out that I was already doing everything in the job description, but told me point blank that there was no scope for having my current role regraded. When I asked why Other Department classified Teapot Support at a higher grade than *our* department, I was told that it was probably because they only have one person doing Teapot Support, and we’re a team of three.

    In the end I didn’t apply for it, because I knew the other department was a difficult one to work for, and I didn’t want to be doing Teapot Support on my own. Then the other department hired two people at that role, instead of one. This made me take a look at those nationally agreed role descriptors, and it’s clear that the descriptors for the higher grade apply to my current role.

    Fast forward a few months, and Other Department is currently advertising for a THIRD Teapot Support role, still at the higher grade, still with a job description covering everything I already do. My previous manager has retired, and we have a new manager in post, who seems to be less of the “but this is how we’ve always done things” type than my previous manager, but she is really, really new to the field, and doesn’t know anything about Teapot Support or what we do in our team on a daily basis. I *still* don’t want to work in Other Department — I want to have my current role, in my current department, regraded. My two coworkers are on the same page.

    I know I need to talk to my manager, but since the idea of regrading was shot down so quickly by my previous manager, I’m not sure how to approach this. Since there’s a nationally agreed pay scale system, negotiating salary is something that is Not Done. Any suggestions or words of encouragement?

    1. LQ*

      What about having your position reclassified (or whatever your language is)? Rather than getting a raise, get your job moved into the higher grade. For some government roles this is a Hay study I believe. But something like that to evalute if the work you are doing already belongs at that higher level? Especially with a new manager.

      “Hey I noticed that other departments this work is classed as a 15 but I’m at a 13, can we do a review of the skills and see about getting the role classified more in line with the rest of the organization?” If you have a contract or a union, refer to their materials.

    2. nice going angelica*

      At a previous job, I oversaw a project to review the classifications for a division within a large university. An important thing to keep in mind is that just because you are capable of doing the work of a Teapot Support Specialist 4 when you are a Specialist 3, does not necessarily mean that there is a business need for a Specialist 4, or that management wants to prioritize getting a Specialist 4 reclass. Which is to say, if you moved on to another role, they would be perfectly happy to have someone who was performing adequately at a 3 level.

      It’s not ridiculous to ask your new manager about it to get some clarity, but there’s also a decent chance that the business need for the higher classification isn’t a priority right now and you will need to leave your team to get a position at that higher band.

      1. Olympia*

        Thanks for this, I think you’re probably right that that’s how this will go. It’s just confusing that you’ve got two roles, with the same job title and same responsibilities, but Other Department has classified it at the Specialist 4 grade, and my department has classed it at the Specialist 3 grade. I feel like this is the kind of situation those industry-wide standardised set of job profile grading criteria was designed to prevent. I know I’m not likely to get anywhere, but I can’t help but want to get some clarity on what the difference is between two identical-looking roles, where one warrants the higher grade but ours doesn’t.

        1. nice going angelica*

          Systems are so smart until humans get involved! This is a frustrating situation, and I think you’re well within your rights to ask for clarity.

  131. clow*

    Kinda looking for a reality check. My office hosts a family trick or treat thing each year, where kids will come by peoples cubes and everyone has bowls of candy for them. Last year, I forgot so i only had a bag of candy that i already had in my cube. I used that and it wasn’t much. A coworker asked me for some candy before the event and I told them that I was afraid I wouldn’t have enough for the kids, but would share whatever was left over with the entire team after the event was over. They stared at me and said “are you serious??” and “come on its only one piece” which made me a little annoyed and i repeated myself that i was worried there wouldn’t be enough. They left and complained to other coworkers that i refused them candy (i ended up running out really early btw). This year I had a lot more because i didn’t forget..they came by and reminded me that last year i refused to give them candy, and how it was “burned into their mind”. Kept repeating “remember that? remember??” I found it so obnoxious and rude. I cannot believe an adult could be this ridiculous. Am I being overly harsh, or is this person a complete jerk?

    1. CM*

      They’re a jerk. Or maybe weirdly obsessed with candy. Why not just ask somebody else who has plenty?
      Just laugh at them if they keep bringing it up and say, “It’s so funny how you’re still upset a year later that I didn’t bring enough trick or treat candy!”

    2. Four lights*

      They got upset because you wouldn’t give them a piece of candy? Reminds me of first grade snack time.

    5. froodle*

      Nah, you’re not being harsh, they’re being totally rude, and strangely obsessed – I assume if this trick or treating is an office wide thing that there were many candy rich co-workers they could have gone to.

  132. AnonAnon*

    My husband has been asked to consider transferring to his company’s office in suburban Dallas. It’s a great opportunity for him, but ugh. I’m very flexible and willing to move… but Dallas is real close to the bottom of my list. (Sorry, Dallas people. I’m sure it’s nice, but it’s not my kind of nice.)

    1. she was a fast machine*

      At least it’s not Houston!

      – signed, a Texan who has spent way too much of her life in Houston

      1. AnonAnon*

        We literally said that to each other!

        I’ve spent maybe a total of 10 days each in Dallas and Houston. My Houston days were in July. I wanted to die.

        Signed, A Resident of the Frozen Tundra

        1. she was a fast machine*

          Houston is a miserable nightmare literally built on a swamp. Dallas at least has like…slight seasonal variations. They also have a restaurant that makes the best cheese fries on earth, so they have that going for them…otherwise, yeah.

    2. Enough*

      Was just in Dallas area this summer. Not my kind of place. The best part was an older neighborhood where friends lived. One of the few places that felt lived in and relaxed.

    3. DallasAnon*

      I totally understand your feelings about Dallas. It’s not the most exciting place to live, and my husband and I have been asking myself why we stuck around for 16 years. If you do end up deciding to take the opportunity, let me know if you need any info on neighborhoods or stuff like that.

    4. Phryne*

      My 2 cents…I’ve moved crappy places for good jobs before and will never, ever do it again. Having a good environment 40 hours a week at the office isn’t worth the entire household having a miserable environment the other 128 hours of the week.

  133. LJay*

    Also, an update on my question last week.

    I offered the position to the person with the other full time job. She accepted immediately.

    I’m going to work on structuring the position to be less than 40 hours a week – there was scheduled to be 2 hours daily overlap time with the other employee that really doesn’t need to happen.

    And I’m going to continue to advocate that we raise the pay-rate in that area of the county.

  134. Anoncorporate*

    How does one go about interviewing for an internal transfer?

    I just snagged an interview for a lateral transfer within my company (I work for a typical mid-sized corporation.) I plan to practice my answers the same way I would do for a normal interview, but do I need to dress as formally? Should I expect a salary negotiation even though our formal performance reviews have passed?

    I know both the interviewers and have worked with them in the past – they both have expressed that they like my work and I get along with them personally, so I hope this works out!

    1. she was a fast machine*

      Every time I’ve applied for a internal transfer I’ve treated it just like any other interview, except I didn’t clock out and go somewhere else. So yes to the formal dress(whatever that means for your office/industry) and definitely the answering practices. Salary definitely depends on your company and culture, though I would expect to do so depending on how lateral the move is.

      1. SarahKay*

        Seconded to the treat it like any other interview, with formal dress, preparation, etc. Also, bear in mind they may well skip any ‘getting to know you’ questions and plunge straight into the main interview.
        My last internal interview was with the two people that would be managing me if I got the new role (one manager based on the physical location, one based on function of work done) and the first thing my functional manager-to-be said was “Okay, SarahKay, obviously we already know your background, so let’s get straight to it. Tell me about a time when you…”. I definitely had an ‘Eeep!’ moment in my head as I rapidly changed gears into full-on interview mode.

  135. StellaBella*

    I have an interview! It is working for a large firm (international). I need some advice tho.
    Interview is scheduled 2 weeks before I have plane tickets to leave the country I have studied in for the past year. I have been applying for jobs and have had one bite (this one) after 40+ applications. I was getting nothing but rejections, and dealing with a lot of construction work in the house I rent, and was just emotionally done after uni too- so booked flight home. Well, 7 weeks later I now have an interview with a really cool gig.

    My question I need advice one is this: should I ask in the interview about the timeline for making a hiring decision and tell them this – or just ask about timeline? I can change my flight and will cancel if I get the job. But if it is going to be 2-3 months …. my lease runs out, and I have other commitments over the winter holidays. I want to go to the interview and meet the team, and get a feel for things before I say anything. I can be flexible tho certainly!

    1. Triplestep*

      I can’t tell from what you’ve written how long you’ll be out of the country or if you weren’t planning to come back. You can (and should) ask about the hiring timeline, but there’s no way to know if the answer you get will be accurate. I would just ask the question and mention you’ll be out of the country, but accessible via (e-mail, text, whatever) should they want to get in touch with you.

      Good luck!

      1. StellaBella*

        I was moving back home…sorry was not clear. Uni is done, am hoping to find a job, and well…may have to go home sooner than they will hire me.

  136. Ms Tickled*

    So, this week a coworker decided, for reasons best known to herself, to tickle me.

    Picture the scene. I have my headphones on. I’m working. It’s an office, and we’re all adults, sitting quietly designing teapots. And suddenly, a shriek rends the air. She has snuck up behind me and tickled my sides. (Unbeknownst to her I have PTSD and a massive startle response, and my shriek was pretty loud. I’m breathing heavily, I’m trying to stay calm and I’m slipping into a panic attack.)

    I remove my headphones. I turn to her and say, as calmly as possible, “Please don’t do that again, because I might hit you in the face.”

    I turn back to my work and put my headphones back on.

    1. Triplestep*

      Were there any repercussions for either of you? (Not that you deserved any, but the threat might have been frowned upon.)

      I don’t have PTSD, but have always had a pronounced startle response. The fear response and the anger response are very closely related, and I probably would have reacted more strongly than you did (in anger.) What she did was not OK!

      1. Ms Tickled*

        Yeah, I’m pretty ashamed of my response to her. It was in the heat of the moment, not that it excuses it.

        No repercussions so far either way, and she is leaving the company next week, so I think we’ll just… consider it closed.

        1. Quandong*

          There is no need to feel ashamed of your response. Your coworker is the person who should be ashamed.

          You did nothing wrong. She was completely out of line and her actions are utterly inappropriate, particularly in the workplace.

        2. Mephyle*

          Seconded. Honestly, what would have been a “better” response? You reacted appropriately and followed it up with an assertive statement of your needs and the consequences if it happened again. I’m sure that someone in a similar situation who froze or minimized their disapproval would wish that they had reacted like you instead.

          1. Villanelle*

            A better response would be to surely explain, even after the fact that you have PTSD because threatening to hit someone is quite extreme without relevant background

            1. Ms Tickled*

              I considered that, but I don’t think that my coworkers are entitled to my history of trauma. You shouldn’t need to know I was raped when I was 19 to know not to tickle me. I am not sure how to explain I have PTSD without saying why, as the questions inevitably follow.

              However, if I was to continue working with her I would have gone to HR immediately and explained that I had indeed verbally threatened her not to tickle me again. It’s been eating me up all week that I threatened someone with violence – I have never been physically violent to anyone in my life!

              Thanks for your input – I am going to mull it over and see whether I might just ‘hand myself in’ to HR and flag that this happened.

              1. Triplestep*

                I’m sorry if I came across as thinking there *should* have been repercussions for you or that your response was not warranted. I do not think you have anything to be ashamed of or worried about – do not go to HR!

                I’m glad that person is leaving, and I don’t think you need to worry that people will continue to do things that ping your PTSD; what she did was not OK, not the norm, and hopefully nothing you’ll ever have happen to you again!

                1. Ms Tickled*

                  Not at all. Thank you very much.

                  It was definitely just a startled response – not a serious threat! – so I think hopefully we’ll just lay this to rest.

            2. Someone Else*

              I don’t really think that’s necessary. When I first read it, I took it not as a threat of intentional violence but more of a “if I’m startled I might flail” and the hitting would be unintentional. I’m taking it from the comments it actually was intended as a threat, but in general “don’t startle me/touch me because you might get thwacked by the response” is basic cause and effect and doesn’t need additional contextual explanation.

          2. Mephyle*

            I actually don’t think that explaining would be a better response. Because the tickler is likely to laugh it off and/or say that the ticklee can’t take a joke, they didn’t mean it, and all the usual minimizing things. I think that an honest, unthought reaction was good.
            Moreover, it doesn’t require a background of PTSD to flail out at a tickler – all it takes is a person who’s very sensitive to tickling and hates it, and there are plenty of those, or I should say, plenty of us. There have been some recent discussions here in this regard.

        3. The New Wanderer*

          What a supremely ill-advised thing for her to do. Let’s hope that you have now cured her of any impulse to ever touch a colleague like that again. It’s not appropriate, ever. I think I understand why you might feel ashamed of your response, but this is all on her.

    2. Anoncorporate*

      UGH – I hate your coworker on your behalf. I don’t have PTSD, but I have A. Very. Big. Problem. with people violating any sort of boundaries (both physical and behavioral.) This includes trying to scare me for their own amusement.

      1. Ms Tickled*

        I thought of that story! After I calmed down, I was like, “I am going to have to write to AAM because I can’t believe this happened in real life.”

    4. I work on the Hellmouth*

      I once had a resident sneak up behind me and tickle me my first week as an assistant manager at a new property.

      I jumped, screamed, and put him into an arm bar. It wasn’t premeditated, it was just my reaction (I started taking regular Krav Maga/self defense classes when working at a previous/hood adjacent property). I was VERY afraid that I was going to be fired, but the manager just told him “I guess I don’t have to tell you that you should probably bring your rent on time” and he learned a valuable lesson about not touching people without permission.

  137. Triplestep*

    I’m interested to know how others would approach this scenario; I am trying to avoid appearing tone deaf about a hiring process in the public sector.

    I interviewed last summer for a role for which I was overqualified. It was acknowledged during the interview that I was overqualified, and I’m pretty sure that’s why I did not get the job.

    There is now an opening that is closer to my level and I want to apply.

    Given that it was a public sector job, it was a panel interview with standardized questions for all applicants, and a chance to ask my own questions afterwards. When I had the floor, I acknowledged as diplomatically as I could that I knew they were interviewing people with less work experience, and that I knew this would not even be a lateral move for me, but that I was in a place in my life that I was able to consider it. The workplace and lack of commute made it appealing. I asked essentially (not in these words) “you know I’m overqualified, and I just told you why I applied. Now you tell me why you brought me in to interview?” And the hiring manager said it was my cover letter. I got good vibes from her throughout, and I got feedback on two of the five thank you notes that I interviewed well (although not from her.)

    Given that this is a public sector job with rules about recruiting, I can’t just reach out to the hiring manger and say “Hey, let’s talk about this role.” Instead I plan to apply to the new role by writing a cover letter than acknowledges that we’ve met, and then reach out to her via e-mail and say essentially this: “I know you can’t engage with me as a candidate this way, but I wanted to let you know that I applied for this other role and if you think I’d be a good fit, you’ll find my application submitted via the appropriate channels.” I plan to apply first and contact her second because I want her to be able to act on it with her HR resource right away and not have to think of it later.

    It’s possible that I didn’t get the first job because she didn’t like something about me, in which case I’ll have lost nothing except the time to craft the cover letter. But if she did like me and thinks I’d be good in this role, then potentially I’ll get invited back to interview.

    What do people think? Does this show any kind of tone-deafness about the way these things work? That’s what I’m trying to avoid.

  138. The Curator*

    Finished a huge, huge, huge project. Feeling drained, exhausted, exhilarated. Going to spend the afternoon straightening up my office and getting ducks in a row for next week. Could someone throw me a parade?

  139. Can't Sit Still*

    I had a phone interview today, but it’s clear that since it’s a new role, they have no idea what they are doing. I am cautiously optimistic.

    The recruiter did close with “all of the upcoming layoffs” at my company, though, so that was interesting. While there aren’t any in the works, to my knowledge, I have been out on medical leave for a couple of weeks. Also, management kept saying the company wasn’t moving for over a year, but last week, they announced we would be moving as soon as the building in another city is completed. So, I could definitely be wrong about the layoffs. (I am going to say that we are a subsidiary, and some major stuff happened with the parent company recently, so that is probably what changed everything.)

    Anyway, the position sounds interesting and gives me an idea of what’s out there.

  140. Anoncorporate*

    I’m posting a second Q today because I’m exceedingly curious!

    My team just decided to restructure, and we are going from doing projects individually to as sub-groups as a way to increase efficiency. Has anyone ever done this before and I would be curious as to hear about your experience/thoughts/best practices on the matter?

    I’m also trying to help my manager calculate how many projects we will be able to complete as a group (compared to the same number of people doing the assignments individually), and how many assignments we will be able to complete per year. This is fun for me to do but…I feel like I’m a little out of my depth? I am Junior Analyst but have no project management training. Should I suggest we hire a project manager to do this?

    1. Elle*

      There are some few-day training opportunities for project management out there. Why don’t you ask to be trained? Its better for them than hiring someone new, and its good breadth of knowledge for you. Look up “PMP” courses.
      You can also request a copy of Microsoft Project and do an “acceptable” job training yourself on YouTube. At least you’ll be able to make data-based estimates that way.

      I mean, personally, as a project manager I have a hard time believing going to groups is going to be more efficient than individuals, but it really depends on the work.

      1. Anoncorporate*

        Interesting! They think it will allow us to shorten timelines – but we are on trial to see how it goes

  141. Horizons*

    I started in my job about a year ago. My colleagues and I have been talking about how we need to stop eating lunch at our desks. We’re not so busy we need to eat through our lunch hour. Our workplace has a big lunch room, with a kitchen and even windows, yet we all agree that the vibe is “creepy.” Maybe because no one uses it? I don’t know! No one can pinpoint a reason why they don’t use it- they just don’t, but if “things” change, they might. I’d love to hear ideas on how to make a staff lounge more inviting.

    3. OtterB*

      Maybe to start, pick one day a week to all eat in the lunch room? We don’t have a lunch room (small kitchen, but no place to sit). A couple of years ago, because we felt like we were too siloed and often didn’t talk to each other enough, we decided to make Thursdays brown bag lunch day. Very low key – if you’re in the office that day and not otherwise committed, bring the lunch you brought from home or your carry-out to the conference room. Occasionally we do things like a slide show from someone’s big vacation, but usually we just hang out and chat. It’s become pretty ingrained now. Yesterday, we had outside visitors using the conference room, and 6 or 8 of us ended up in someone’s office chatting over lunch instead.

  142. Data Miner*

    I have a skilled hobby making jewelry and I also enjoy wearing my creations to work (professional office setting). My coworkers compliment my style and jewelry, and I also like to share details of the classes I take, projects I’m doing, etc.

    My question is how do I navigate when they ask if I sell. I have an online store and have brought in a few things when asked. Typically I’ve shared my store when asked, but it’s coming up to the holidays and I’m going to run a sale around Thanksgiving. Could I tell the few people who’ve expressed interest? I don’t like the selling aspect, more the show and tell of what I’ve made so it’s hard to gauge what would be appropriate at work…

    1. Four lights*

      I don’t see a problem with selling as long as your company doesn’t have a policy. You might want to get a business card with all the information on it, that way you don’t feel like you’re selling at work so much.

      1. Data Miner*

        Yep, that’s how I direct people to my website. I just enjoyed bringing things in for people to touch, try on, oogle, etc. but I worry that that is an unspoken no-no.

        1. fposte*

          It’s getting there–you really don’t want to be using your workplace to advance your private business. I’d give people a business card if they ask and leave it at that (it’s fine at that point to say “If you sign up there, it’ll alert you to sales, which I obviously can’t alert you to here at [Office Job]”). I don’t actually think I’d initiate contact with people about the sale unless they bring up the jewelry topic.

    2. Rey*

      When they ask if you sell, direct them to your online presence (I assume you have an Instagram page for your shop) so they can independently choose to follow or not, and then have information about your sales, etc. And it’s completely freeing for you because they can get exactly the information they want without you having to sales pitch.

    4. Kathenus*

      Or possibly put the cards with the info in a break room or on a community bulletin board – people can take them or not on their own. Since they can take them without you knowing, they won’t feel pressure to buy something as they might if they took the card directly from you.

    5. BRR*

      If they’ve asked in the past you could let them know once I think. If they haven’t asked if you sell stuff, I wouldn’t bring it up with the sale or the store at all. It keeps a nice separation.

      And it’s all so pretty!

  143. Not So Super-visor*

    Odd One:
    We work in a large call center where doing team introductions is difficult. It’s made more difficult by rules by upper management about what kinds of things can be posted in the department (ie – no bulletin board). I finally made up my mind that I needed to do something because people were complaining that they never knew who the newbies were. I created a survey with basic questions (favorite color, favorite sports team, etc) and included a section for preferred pronouns and preferred name. One of my harder to work with reps turned in the survey with Preferred Name as Spiderman or Spidey. I noticed that one of the other reps who had worked with him before had called him Spidey, but I figured it was just a “bro” thing. Do I really need to call him that?

    1. The New Wanderer*

      My personal opinion on stated preferred names is if it’s a common nickname derived from their given name, like Tom for Thomas, then you should go with that at all times. If it’s an unrelated nickname, like Spidey for Thomas, then you should only go with it if you met Thomas and he actually introduced himself as Spidey. I wouldn’t do it if he only wrote it on a form or on a nametag because it’s too difficult to tell whether it’s an in-the-moment joke* or a legitimate request. If it’s a legitimate request, it will presumably be followed up with an in-person request to use the nickname if no one is really picking that up, at which time you should honor the request.

      * A college friend got himself saddled with an in-the-moment joke nickname for life when the rest of us took it seriously. He didn’t mind because it was college, but in a more professional environment it might get tiresome.

      1. valentine*

        Call him Spidey. If it was a joke, he can tell you, but someone who was thrilled the survey asked about pronouns will just assume it was all for show if you’re unwilling to use preferred names, after all.

  144. Penny For Your Thoughts*

    My bosses keep asking me to call a co-worker on maternity leave whenever they want to know something about one of her projects that I can’t answer right away. I’m always able to find the answer without doing that but I’m worried they will ask something that I can’t find the answer to and force me to call her.

    Is it actually illegal to call someone on maternity leave or just frowned upon? I don’t want to call her for anything, I want her to enjoy her time with her baby, but I’m worried about our bosses pressuring me into contacting her and would love to tell them that it’s illegal if it really truly is.

    1. fposte*

      If she’s out on FMLA, there’s a concept called “FMLA interference”; it’s not as simple as it being illegal to call her, period, but you don’t just get to ring somebody on leave up when the urge takes you, either. Most advice is just not to call them. If she’s out on state-protected maternity leave, that depends on the state, but I suspect it’s similar to the FMLA approach.

      If her leave isn’t covered by law and is just an employer-granted maternity leave, it’s up to the employer to set the rules. (And if this isn’t in the U.S., I have no idea.)

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I don’t think there is a law against it.

      That doesn’t mean it’s not shockingly terrible judgment or that it could run afoul of labor practices regarding pay (particularly if she’s non-exempt).

      Unless it’s a literal life or death situation, I would refuse to call. If they need to know so bad, they can do it.

    3. Nita*

      It depends. If she’s on FMLA, it may be a problem. I think I read somewhere that the occasional phone call is still OK, as long as it doesn’t turn into a request for her to do some kind of work. If she’s not on FMLA (post-FMLA unpaid leave for example), there’s no reason why not.

  145. Zillah*

    Super low stakes question:

    The project I’m working on has an intern. I’m not her supervisor, but I do monitor what she’s doing/give feedback/give assignments in conjunction with a couple other people. The other people on the project are out today, and I know that she’d been supposed to come in… but I haven’t seen her, nobody mentioned that she’d be out (one of the two other people clearly thought she’d be here, and I haven’t gotten anything saying that she’d be out even though I emailed her earlier). She’s mentioned some other stresses in her life to me, and her work wasn’t great earlier this week. I feel like I ought to double check with the other people on the project to see if they knew she wouldn’t be here, but I’m not totally sure how to.

    1. I'm A Little Teapot*

      “Hey, have you seen intern today? I haven’t seen her around”
      “Just checking, I didn’t see intern on Friday, wasn’t sure if there was a schedule change”

  146. Millenial Lizard Person*

    What do you do when your remote boss ignores you?

    Been in the role for about a month. My boss is a nice person and works remotely from the other side of the country. He, and everyone else in the group, has 1o+ years experience (I have 3!). So I don’t really have any peers, only supervisors, and those supervisors are the VP of project development and the manager for the whole project. I get that they’re busy, important people, but I asked them for feedback on a report I submitted a week ago, and neither one of them has read it. So far I’ve gotten zero (0) feedback on the three (3) reports I’ve done.

    I need to balance being a needy newbie with being assertive and managing up. I’ve read Allison’s articles on managing up, but it’s hard when Boss straight up doesn’t reply on skype. Ever. I only talk to him in meetings that we’re both in. Any advice? I guess I just want someone to say it’s OK to keep bugging them.

    1. Four lights*

      Maybe try another way to contact them. Do they have an administrative assistant you can schedule a phone conference with, or who could let you know the best way to get in touch with him?

      1. Millenial Lizard Person*

        He works remotely from home, so he doesn’t have an admin, but yeah switching up my method is probably a good idea.

        PS Love the name, Jean-Luc!

    2. LQ*

      Can you put a meeting on his calendar? I wouldn’t just keep skype bugging, but I’d absolutely put a meeting on his calendar.

  147. Serious Pillowfight*

    I posted last Friday about needing more money and how I applied at a local Target but hadn’t heard back.

    Well, I have an interview in an hour! It’s for the Starbucks inside the Target. I have fairly recent barista experience so they sounded enthusiastic about possibly hiring me for the same position there. In light of Alison’s recent post, I was already thinking of asking for more money if they make me an offer. I do have experience, so is $1 an hour more a fair ask? Or should I just ask if there can be any movement on the salary without naming an exact figure?

    I’m mostly an office drone, albeit with some retail in my past, so I’m not sure if retail jobs are different from office jobs in this regard.

    1. Trinity Beeper*

      Unfortunately I have no suggestions, but I just wanted to say congratulations and good luck!

    2. Four lights*

      Unfortunately I don’t think a place like Target has a lot of leeway for hourly worker wages, but I would certainly try. I think a dollar may be too much. I think retail raises tend to be in increments of less than a dollar. “Given that I already have x amount of experience in this position, will my wage be higher than the usual starting wage?’

      1. Serious Pillowfight*

        UPDATE: I was offered the job on the spot and asked for 50 cents more an hour based on the fact that I have previous experience. The HR rep was nice but said there was no wiggle room. I figured it was worth a shot anyway!

        1. Reba*

          Good for you! It’s definitely ok to negotiate with retail or other hourly jobs. But of course, when you are one of many worker bees (especially for seasonal) you often get the result you did. I hope it is a good experience for you.

    3. WellRed*

      Congrats. I plan to apply to a few retail jobs as I also need.more money, especially with winter heating bills.

  148. Seeking Second Childhood*

    At my daughter’s recent birthday party, my husband overheard one of the girls talking about Tinder. They’re 12. Admittedly from what he heard, she was talking about using it as a game — sort of like some kids like with prank phone calls. I’ve got my MamaBear up — this is potentially a lot more damaging than a prank phone call.

    How do I pass this information along to the girl’s mother? Can you suggest a way to do this where my daughter’s friend doesn’t decide she’s a tattler? (My daughter wasn’t even in the area.)
    A Tinder question too — if the girls DID go off and play pranks with it, is there now a location record of it being used at my house?

    She does have older siblings, so she may well be using a “legal” account. And the kids were *not* given our wifi password.

    1. Nita*

      Hmm, someone I know was in a vaguely similar situation with a niece recently, and emailed her mom. I guess it’s easier to discuss something awkward like that over email. Or a phone call, personally I think a phone call might be better as long as you catch the mom at a good time (when she’s not with the kids). Just be clear that your daughter didn’t tell you anything, you overheard it yourself. Hopefully the mom will be able to talk to her daughter without mentioning where she got the info, but that’s out of your hands.

      It’s still important to give the mom a heads-up. A 12-year-old on Tinder… let’s just say many 12-year-olds don’t understand the risks of social media, never mind a dating site. And they have that thing where they think they’re invincible and can’t get in trouble.

  149. Librarian (not using my usual name)*

    I ran across an article offering resume advice to librarians, and overall it seems to fit with what Allison’s advice. Given how often commenters post about bad advice they’ve gotten elsewhere, I thought it would be useful to show that there is some good advice out there as well. (Link to follow)

  150. I'm A Little Teapot*

    Just saying people, a good control is one that works WITH you, not AGAINST you. If you put in the most perfect control ever, but it doesn’t allow people to do their jobs, then they WILL circumvent said control. Which makes it useless. (my grandboss sent me a file, which I watched them generate, but the file type is caught by the auto email filters. So now I have to ask my grandboss to send it to me via a different method.)

  151. Trinity Beeper*

    I’m a little late to this open thread, but how do you make the transition from private company to nonprofit? I currently work in tech because it’s where I was able to get employment, but I’ve always wanted to make the transition to an organization that works with either the arts, or environmental issues. I’ve tried explaining in cover letters how I understand the difference between startups and nonprofits, and be realistic about how my skills will extrapolate, but haven’t had much luck. Any suggestions?

    1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      What kind of work do you do? (Like: admin assistant, web design, project management, etc.)

      1. Trinity Beeper*

        Marketing (social media/email/automation, specifically), editorial work, webinar production, and some beginning-level product management.

        1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

          Is that the kind of work you want to do at a nonprofit?

          Because — and I’ve participated in hiring processes for marketing roles at nonprofits — most of those roles are going to translate pretty directly. (Definitely social media, email, and editorial work. I’m not sure what product management is, though, and only the very largest nonprofits are going to hire for webinar production.)

          One thing that might feel difference is an emphasis on being able to work effectively with folks who don’t have the expertise you have. Unless you’d be joining a large marketing team at a large organization, you’d likely be working with program staff who are experts in the programs they run and have been flying by the seat of their pants on marketing and social media. I’d focus on developing and highlighting your skill at explaining marketing concepts to non-marketers; teaching non-marketers the basics that will help you best support them; etc.

          1. Trinity Beeper*

            I’m fine to use marketing as an entry point into my next position, but I don’t know that it’s really want to stick with in the long run. I’m actually more interested in development/outreach/program coordinator-type positions.

            That’s an interesting point that I had never thought about! And it also translates well. I’m currently at a pretty small startup and actually built a large component of our social media marketing strategy and have been training up team members to help out. So I’m used to explaining marketing concepts to non-marketers, but that’s not something that I’ve emphasized at all.

            Product management is a pretty tech thing that I wouldn’t expect to translate so much :-) But with the webinar production, I’ve tried to point to the skills involved in that I have to do outreach to speakers, balance sponsor needs, coordinate schedules, etc.

            Thank you so much for your insight!!

  152. The flying piglet*

    Hi everyone! I would love advice for how to nail a ten-minute preliminary remote interview for a job I am really excited about. This is my first interview (!) and I want to prepare as well as I can! Thank you so much in advance — love this site and its community!

    1. Elle*

      If you have a friend or mentor, ask them to help you out by describing you like they were going to recommend you for a job. Then, try the same on them. Then use that same energy and enthusiasm when its your turn to do your own interview. Practice telling your story out loud a few times until you get the hang of it. So many times women are afraid to speak up about their strengths even though they’d have no problem gushing about a friend. But confidence (although not cockiness) is what wins interviews.
      If this is a phone call with back and forth, practice telling a few stories that can be easily adapted to various STAR questions like “tell me about a time you worked on a team” “tell me about a challenge you faced” etc.

    2. No Tribble At All*

      Have someone test whatever your interview method is ahead of time — do you get good phone reception? If it’s skype, is your internet fast enough? That way you won’t run into technical difficulties the day of the interview.

  153. AnonEmu*

    Good news is I’ve scheduled my surgery for next week! I’m hoping it will help.
    Better news is I’m turning in my resignation to “Eira” over lunch today. Official 2 weeks notice but due to the surgery I’ll be on light duty for about a week of that.
    Also better news: I had a successful interview last week for an analytics job, and a former boss of mine also said that if I’d like to come back and work for him, the job is mine if I want it. I’ve gotten additional information about the job I was offered overseas as well and so will be traveling there for about a week before I make my final decision. I have no doubt Eira will make these 2 weeks hell but there is a light at the end of the tunnel at least! Thanks so much for all your support. Expect an update later tonight or next week re how Eira took the resignation – I’m expecting to be yelled at quite a bit but given that I have 2 job offers and may be short listed for a third….wlep, bye.

  154. Nora*

    I’m at work and a woman I don’t know just got huffy with me in the bathroom because I flushed the toilet while she was on the phone. In the bathroom.

    3. Kathenus*

      She must have loved it when you then turned on the faucet, and hopefully the bathroom had the really loud hand dryers to use next :)

    4. Shelly*

      Once there was someone on speaker phone! Thankfully, she did not come out of her stall while I washed my hands and left, because I definitely recognized her voice and it was a pretty heated conversation about problems with her divorce.

    5. Blue Eagle*

      Yay, you are my hero! One of my pet peeves is people on the phone in the ladies room. I always make sure to flush constantly while they are on the phone as it is so very rude to be on the phone while people are trying to privately do their private business.

    6. Alianora*

      Ugh the other day someone at work was brushing her teeth at the only bathroom sink, then went into the stall and peed, all while talking on her phone. Then she left without washing her hands. Nasty.

  155. Flip Flip Ding Ding*

    I’ve been freelancing for a while, but hoping to land a permanent gig for almost as long, as long as it was with the right company.

    I recently heard that I landed a job that’s pretty much ideal — including a salary that’s 1.5 times greater than any I’ve had before. (I’m sure AAM’s resume and cover letter advice played a role in this process.)

    This is great news, and I’m not intending to humblebrag, but that salary has unearthed a lot of self-doubt. What if I crash and burn? Am I going to regret this? What if this is too much?

    Maybe it’s imposter syndrome, trendy as that is — but how do people deal with that?

    1. Elle*

      Sounds like imposter syndrome to me!

      This is a business transaction. Your company has agreed to pay you X amount in exchange for doing whats listed on the job description. It doesn’t matter if YOU think you’re worth it, because they do and honestly they have more experience with which to determine that its necessary to pay that much.

      If you aren’t holding up your end of the bargain, your company will let you know. No news is good news.
      One thing I do for every job is start a word document where I keep track of what I accomplish. I fill it out on Fridays. Within 3 months you’ll be SHOCKED at how much you’ve learned and are taking on now. I look over my list of accomplishments for a bit of an ego boost whenever I’m feeling “unworthy” and as a bonus, it helps come resume update time.

  156. Flippity Floppity Floop*

    I’m having a gynecological surgery in a few weeks, and I don’t know how to talk about it at work. Since someone will need to cover for me it will have to come up that I’m going out for surgery, and I don’t know how to keep this pretty private without it seeming weird. I’ve been sick lately so it’s not out of the blue, but being very clamped down about it will likely strike my coworkers as odd. But it’s lady stuff! I do not want to talk about it at work! Even just to say that it’s lady stuff.

    How do I head this one off??

    1. fposte*

      “Just minor abdominal stuff; nothing serious, but I’m really keeping work as a place where I don’t have to talk or think about it.”

    2. Trinity Beeper*

      I don’t think you’ll have to talk about it! You’re having surgery. You can just tell people that you had to have surgery. If anyone presses further, just say “I’d prefer not to talk about it, but I’m feeling a lot better now/am recovering well/will be returning at x date/”. If anyone presses further than that, they’re stepping over a clearly defined (and reasonable!) line, and you’re not the one being rude.

      1. Flippity Floppity Floop*

        But like, whether they’re objectively being the crappy party or not doesn’t change the fact that I’d be the weird one within the office culture for not giving even a vague idea of what’s up.

        1. CM*

          “Minor surgery” isn’t good enough? Or “minor abdominal stuff” as fposte suggests?
          If your office culture is so share-y that you’ll be pressed for details about what KIND of surgery, honestly I would just lie and come up with something that’s pretty common and known to be minor.

        2. Xarcady*

          My advice would be to go ahead and *be* the weird one. It’s okay for you to set your own boundaries.

          When co-workers press you for more details, turn it around on them. “Why do you ask?” is a good question for the boundary-crushers. Make them struggle to come up with a good reason why they need to know more than you are having surgery and will be out X number of days.

          You can distract them by talking a lot about something completely different. As a child, my parents would grill my siblings and me about everything we did outside of the home. My brothers responded by not talking or giving monosyllabic answers. Which earned them more grilling. I learned to tell my parents every tiny detail about something I didn’t care very much about, in an enthusiastic, gushing manner. They thought they were getting the whole story (and more of the story than they really wanted), so they gradually backed off with the questions.

          So try changing the subject immediately, either to talk about something neutral, or to ask the co-worker a work-related question, which should also get them thinking along other lines.

          Remember, just because everyone else shares every detail of their lives does not mean you have to share more than what you are comfortable with. Even your manager does not need to know the type of surgery you are having–just that you are having it and what the recommended recovery period is.

        3. LCL*

          Which is more important to you, keeping your privacy or being seen as weird because you don’t want to share intimate details? I’m not trying to dis the (what I consider) oversharers among us, but if you don’t want to be one, don’t.

    3. Environmental Compliance*

      I just had a surgery to remove endometrial growths! I called it an abdominal surgery, no big deal, also hey what about [work topic here]? Most people understood and didn’t prod, or just said that they hoped it goes well & let them know if I need anything. One consistently odd guy did poke into it more and I just kept telling him the same sentence. Ad nauseum.

      “I’ll be out next week, so I’ll need you to cover XYZ. Thank you!”
      “Oh, vacation? Where you going?”
      “Nah, it’s just a surgery. No big deal!”
      “Oh, what kind?”
      “Abdominal. So are we good on XYZ?”
      “Yeah, yeah. What kind of surgery?”
      “Abdominal. Let me know if you have any questions on XYZ.”

      But he’s an extraordinarily oblivious guy in general.

    4. Close Bracket*

      I had surgery for endometriosis twice, and I just told people I was having abdominal surgery. I didn’t say for what, and maybe it was my workplace, but nobody asked. One guy, unprompted, told me his wife had surgery for endometriosis and told me a little about her recovery. It sounded like he was fishing; I’m sure he meant to signal that he could be sympathetic, but I didn’t take the bait. I just responded with something like, “mm, is that right?”

    5. Annie Edison*

      I recently had gynecological surgery as well and I didn’t find too many people prodded when I said I’d be out for surgery. If they did, I was honestly just open with them. It shouldn’t be a surprise that I have ovaries and that they need medical care! I figured if it were an appendectomy or something no one would care, so why should this be different? The ones who were uncomfortable learned their lesson about asking too much, and everyone else was very supportive. But I’d say 80% of my colleagues didn’t even ask why (or notice) I was gone (my boss didn’t even question it!).

      That said, it’s totally up to you what you are comfortable sharing about your body. I think you will be fine just to say you are going to be out for medical reasons though. If they really prod you can tell them that it’s personal and leave it at that. I also like the suggestion above of asking why they want to know.

      Anyways, good luck! If you don’t already, have a hot compress, some fluffy pillows, and peppermint tea ready for your recovery! It will help a lot.

    6. Someone Else*

      Just say “a procedure, nothing life threatening” and leave it at that. If anyone presses for more info than that, they’re jerks and you don’t need to share more.

  157. Sunglasses*

    So I’m younger (2 years out of college) but both my parents passed while I was in college. I live at the house I grew up in with my siblings (mostly paid off, very cheap mortgage. It makes sense for the short run).
    I run into a problem at work that since I’m young and live in my childhood home, people assume I live with my parents and obviously that they are alive.
    When this comes up at work, I generally just ignore the parts that imply my parents are alive and try to awkwardly navigate around it. I’m not hiding it but I’m also not interested in talking about it with coworkers.
    Is there a good way to basically say actually they’re dead without getting weirdness and pity and also not to be cold or rude?

      1. TotesMaGoats*

        I really think this is the answer or at least the easier one. No one needs to know that it’s your childhood home. It’s your home. It’s where you live. Someday you may not live there and somewhere else will be your home.

        1. Stan Lee (not the famous one)*

          “No one needs to know that it’s your childhood home. It’s your home. It’s where you live. Someday you may not live there and somewhere else will be your home.”

          I’ve lived in the same place since I was 2 years old.

          I’m now 56.

      2. Sunglasses*

        Yeah I think I need to start doing that more. It’s just kind of come up casually like “oh when I was a kid my neighborhood blah blah” and dots have been connected lol
        I’ll just be more mindful of bringing up too many details that would lead to that
        Thank you! :)

    2. Rincat*

      I have seen people use “Oh, they’ve passed on” + topic change to good effect. It’s a bit softer than “they’re dead,” and less open to discussion than “they passed away a couple of years ago” or some other phrase with details. If you say it neutrally and keep the conversation momentum going, then most people will not badger you into talking or give you pity, other than maybe a quick “oh I’m sorry to hear that.” Of course nothing works with all people, but that’s a good starting place and will work with most.

      1. It's Pronounced Bruce*

        Also, I know this isn’t the intended effect, but this will also make them feel like they done messed up with their assumptions about you overall.

        Usually, anyway. I once had a colleague who insisted I wasn’t really an adult because I didn’t “pay bills” even though she knew that I had bought a house (and not with my parents!) a few years prior. I asked her who she thought I paid my mortgage other than me, and she just rolled her eyes. So, if you’re dealing with real turds, there may not be much you can do.

    3. Temperance*

      I would actually probably say “I live alone/with friends/with siblings”, and only bring out the dead parents card if/when they push it.

  158. Grace Less*

    A recruiter reached out to me on LinkedIn. Can I start the conversation by asking what he expects the role to pay? What else do I want to know before I agree to have my credentials considered?

    1. Temperance*

      Why not ask him for more information about the role in general? I wouldn’t ask for compensation as the first thing.

    2. It’s me*

      My experience with recruiters has been to start with a phone call where they give you more information. Typically the salary information is included, or they might ask what you’re currently making. I never disclosed that, but I did say “I would need $X to consider leaving my current role” and then he would tell me if that worked on his end or not. If they don’t offer to disclose this in the initial phone call you certainly can ask, it makes sense not to waste your time or theirs.

  159. TechWorker*

    I posted last week about being a new project manager who has a tonne of stuff to do as well as train a newbie and the stress was high… and got one really useful response from someone who’s username I’ve forgotten (sorry!)

    My update is that I still had a fairly stressful week but I raised to my manager that I didn’t feel like I had enough time to do the training properly, & the conclusion is that the one other experienced person on the team is going to take over training two people at once. It means he’ll have less time for actually fixing stuff, but it’s temporary and it means I won’t have to work all hours/have some breathing room to catch up on the project management stuff. Plus said colleague has been really great and is like
    ‘No let’s take everything extra off your plate so you can learn the project management stuff’ which I am *so* grateful for.

    We had a really good team meeting just now where team members fed back that they really like the changes I’ve implemented so far and I’m generally feeling way more positive about the whole thing (and glad I shouldn’t need to work late every day next week!). Yay! Thanks again to the person that helped me out last week :)

  160. VeryAnon, Yes*

    Alright so. I overheard two co-workers saying that a third co-worker is a woman of loose morals (they used a Bad Word which rhymes with ‘door’), and implying that she will go after any new male hire who joins us. Like actually saying ‘that new guy in menswear had better watch his back, Jane will be after him when she sees him’.

    I’m relatively new (like three weeks) in this job but I’m wondering if I should report this seeing as I am so new and I don’t want to have bad blood with people already. From just hearing what other people have said in passing it seems that Jane and these two co-workers have an issue between them and one of the two is convinced that the Jane (who by the way is my concession manager, so thats why I need some advice) is out to get her.

    Now I’m not that far into the culture and politics of this particular store yet (yes, retail, yay) but it does seem that there’s cliques within the shop. For instance one womenswear concession doesn’t like another, won’t let them use ‘their’ changing rooms or tills (we are a department store so it’s like… please pay here no matter where you picked up the item from) and also for some reason menswear really doesn’t like those of us in the beauty section. As in won’t even say hi in the staff room.

    So anyway. The store is a bit territorial and people don’t seem to like certain other people. But my question is should I report the fact these two coworkers were badmouthing my manager? I know tattling is like, so kindergarten, but that’s the environment unfortunately. I have come a small store of the makeup concession I work in and everyone there was super chill, so this is a bit… ehhh… And, also, who do I report it to? Jane? I’m not sure which concession the two gossips work in yet, so don’t know who their manager is.

    Luckily this is just a seasonal position and I will be well out of here after the January sale is done and back to my little store! But in the meantime… to report or no?

    1. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      I wouldn’t. You’re there for a short time, stay above the drama. Your boss probably already knows what they are saying.

    3. Forking great username*

      Definite no. This is unfortunately common in the world of retail, and reporting it is likely to just make it seem like you’re somehow a part of the drama. (Yes, I realize sometimes reporting is important and it doesn’t matter how it’s perceived. But this is not a hill to die on. Especially in a seasonal retail job.)

    4. Girl friday*

      I was a victim of this! I was quite surprised by the whole thing really. 2 women at work became convinced that I was after the objects of their affections, keeping their own status unrelated to this discussion. At first I was quite offended, but then I realized it was part of the unspoken processes at work for new people. I am single and it didn’t entirely hurt my reputation, so I let it go. I’m unsure if that’s currently my reputation or not really, at a new job now.

  161. HereKittyKitty*

    I basically did the opposite of what any advice-giver would ever tell me, and luckily it worked out.

    A few weeks ago I had an interview at a place I was excited to have the prospect to work at. The pay would have been much more. However, I wanted to negotiate a later start date than 2 weeks, and for that reason, they passed. I was disappointed but mostly frustrated because the extra money would have kept me from crying when I paid my bills, etc. I truly love my current job, but the low pay was a big stress.

    Anyway, my manager and I are very close, she’s always said she wants to take me to the top with her and has always praised me heavily in any meeting with higher-ups, etc, so I threw caution to the wind and told her I was considering looking for another job and about the job offer I had. I told her the big thing is pay. A bold move, I know.

    Not wanting to lose me, she took it to the top, and… well they gave me a 6k raise! They agreed that they didn’t want to lose me either and set out a clearer career path for me in the field, with some great opportunities for specialization and leadership.

    This story definitely is the opposite to what instinct would tell me to do, but hey, it worked out! I have 6k more in salary (about 20% increase) and hopefully there’ s no more crying when paying bills! I’m still at the lower end of my salary range, but at least now I’m in range.

    1. CM*

      That’s great! Congratulations!

      I don’t think this really is the opposite of what an advice-giver would say. If you’re at the point where you’re ready to leave your job, that’s a prime opportunity to ask for exactly what you want.

      It says a lot about your value to the organization that they took big steps to retain you. I’m glad you get to stay in the job you love, but with more money and better opportunities!

    2. fposte*

      Yay you! But you know, I would advise anybody with a good relationship with their manager to take their salary dissatisfaction there first, and I always assume that staff are considering the possibility of other jobs, because there always are other jobs. So I don’t think this was a plan you’d get advised against–it just requires you to have a good relationship with your manager.

  162. char*

    So, there’s this person on my team. I usually supervise his work (except when he’s on someone else’s project for a while), but I don’t have any actual disciplinary authority over him.

    At a company-sponsored party, this person made a racist and misogynistic “joke”. (I won’t repeat it here, but in my opinion, it was a pretty vile thing to say.) In the moment, I told him it was inappropriate, and he apologized and acknowledged that he went too far.

    My question is: should I mention this incident to my manager (who’s the one who has actual authority over him) and/or HR, or should I just leave it be since I already called him out on it and he apologized? Personally I’m tempted to escalate this just because of how bad the comment was, but maybe that would be beating a dead horse at this point…? I’d welcome opinions about this.

    1. Kathenus*

      Maybe a middle ground. Write up a short report of the incident – what/where/when/who – along with what you told him and his response. Then share it with your manager as an FYI for his records in case there are future similar incidents. Whether or not you include HR is more of a culture decision at your organization. This way you are giving them the information they need as documentation of what happened and how you handled it. If they choose to take further action they can, or they can just keep the information for future reference if needed.

      1. char*

        I think this sounds like a good idea, thanks. I’m not looking to get him in trouble, and if he sincerely realizes that what he said was wrong and won’t repeat it, then great. It’s more that I feel strongly about making sure our workplace is a welcoming place for people of any gender and race, and so “jokes” like the one he made are NOT acceptable and I want to make sure it doesn’t happen again. Documenting the incident so that we can address it if this becomes a pattern with him sounds like the right way to go.

        1. Autumnheart*

          I think it bears repeating that he got himself in trouble by saying what he said. One of the consequences is that his supervisor (you) is documenting it in case further action needs to be taken. You’re not doing anything “to” him, you’re doing it because of him.

      2. LCL*

        Was the party on company property or off-site? Was it during normal business hours or after work? If it was off site, after work, you would be doing your manager a favor to report it to him, verbally, so he gets a heads up and can watch for this behavior.

        If it was on company property, as part of his normal workday, I think you are obligated to report it to your manager.

    2. Psyche*

      Did he seem to actually understand that he was wrong? Or was he just placating you? I don’t think it would be wrong to escalate but I also don’t think it would necessarily be a bad thing to take wait and see approach if you think he actually understands.

      1. char*

        Well… his apology seemed sincere, but I’m not sure that he understood that I was specifically objecting to the racism/sexism. It kind of felt like he might have thought I was objecting just because it was a sexual joke, which honestly was the least of the problems with what he said. Hard to say for sure. I’ll definitely be keeping an eye out for any further comments like that one.

    3. Lissa*

      Does this seem out of character for him or not? If it were me, and he apologized, I’d let it go if it was the first time but keep an eye out. If this was sort of “yup, not surprising” though, I’d probably still say something. I think it depends on your motivations – getting him to not do it again, getting him punished, etc.

    4. Undine*

      It’s clear what he said still bothers you. That’s a big impact. Go ahead and report it and let them make the call. Tell them that he apologized when you called him on it, but you want them to know.

      The thing is, this way if he says something like this again to someone else, it’s on record that he’s done it before.

      If there’s evidence that your boss or hr will be horrible to you about it, the calculus is different. But at a reasonable place, it’s the job of management and HR to make decisions like this.

    5. Former Retail Manager*

      I vote no on escalating this to his manager/HR. Many people go to company parties, drink a bit too much, and begin to say things that they’d never say to co-workers while sober/during work hours. If you believe his apology was sincere, I’d take a wait and see approach. I’ve also met people like your co-worker, some of whom genuinely had no clue why what they said might be considered offensive or just really hadn’t viewed it from any other perspective than their own, which I imagine is quite different from yours. So if you think this guy could be one of those, and it’s really bothering you and you don’t believe that he really sees why what he said is offensive, then perhaps you could let him know, in a genuinely enlightening way. If he is sincere, you could certainly be helping him to see things differently and truly realize the error of his ways if you’re willing to talk to him about it.

    6. LGC*

      That’s…I think it is worth escalating. Definitely so if clients were present at the party (which it doesn’t sound like there were, and it doesn’t make what he said any better – it’s just that if he said this around outsiders, that would be worse for the company).

      It’s a less harmful version of the first letter yesterday, I think – coworker made what sounds like one really inappropriate joke, as opposed to being repeatedly offensive and escalating his behavior. You handled it well in the moment, but it wouldn’t be overkill to let your manager know about it. (And I don’t think you have a duty to let your manager know, depending on how you think they’ll react.)

  163. SuperAnon for Today*

    Hey, I have a problem. Local government. Department head and mid-level manager have a “father-daughter” type relationship, personal friends outside work. Mid-level manager is a mess. Widely known to be an alcoholic, impacts her work. Generally not good at her job (objectively, even without this issue) and a terrible personnel manager. Has for some time been impacting not only her work, but mine (junior to her, no management responsibilities or authority) and the deputy department head (senior to mid-level, junior to department head). Previous deputy “forced the issue” (not sure exactly what happened) and current deputy is trying to but is getting pushback from department head. Procedure throughout our local government is that all issues involving substance abuse have to be reported to HR by the department head. He refuses because he doesn’t want to be the final nail in her coffin. I do want her to get help, but I also really want her to not be negatively impacting my work any more. Can the deputy and I just do this ourselves?
    Department head is retiring within 2 years. Deputy may or may not be promoted, but regardless, mid-level manager is not likely to be protected once department head is gone. Complicating factor, ethically, is that I’m the one who would be promoted if mid-level manager gets fired. If anyone has ideas, please share.

    1. Nacho*

      I would, at the very least, ask HR what to do if your department head won’t report an issue like this. You shouldn’t have a bottleneck that absolutely cannot be worked around, because then at some point it will just become a wall.

      1. SuperAnon for Today*

        Yeah, I can do that. Thanks! You know how sometimes you just get so stuck you can’t see your way out of the mud? I’m there right now.

    2. LCL*

      I have no suggestion. I’m posting to point out that one of the reasons the Department head hasn’t reported manager’s problem to date is that it is gone on for so long and is so well known. So if he reported now, he looks at worst corrupt, at best incompetent and out of touch.

      If your local government has an ethics/whistleblowers line, you may be able to report this anonymously. But if you take this route, there will be an investigation and it will be a disruptive mess.

      1. SuperAnon for Today*

        That’s a good point. The deputy is near her breaking point but it might be possible for both of us to just hold the line until my independent promotion comes through. Thanks for the perspective.

  164. Secret Keeper*

    So I’m about four months into a new job that’s …. different than I expected. On top of the fact that it’s really not was described to me at the interview, it seems like quite a few of my new coworkers need a work best friend and have dumped a LOT of personal info into my lap.

    Sure, I’m lovely, and I keep secrets locked down, but I have purposely NOT been asking personal questions, or encouraging this behaviour. I’ll actively try to change the subject reapectfully. I keep believing the next coffee walk will be less instense, but I have heard some serious personal confessions!!

    How do I make this stop. I’m not interested in being best friends with everyone, nor do I have the capacity to hear this much info. (Think serious relationship stuff like cheating, health issues, kid issues, work secrets, etc.) I’m worried if I start acting cold or distant they will think I’m not a team member.

    I also feel like the fact that ppl are sharing so deeply with me is kinda a red flag. I mean, they barely know me!!

    1. Kat in VA*

      I’ve had this problem my entire life – personal and professional.

      If I had a dollar every time someone has said, “I’ve never told ANYONE this before..”, then I’d have enough for several dinners at Morton’s!

      At work it’s useful, as my boss relies on me to keep an ear on the ground for any rumblings he might miss or not pick up on…but sometimes, the information I get (cheating spouses, children with eating disorders, money problems) is not really information that I want.

      I have *epic* resting bitch face, so I don’t have a trustworthy or kind or open mien (IMHO). I don’t usually ask probing questions – for some reason, me just saying, “Hey, are you OK today?” to someone who seems “off” can open the most amazing floodgate of confession. This is behavior from regular folks all the way up to the C-suite. Everything from family issues to personnel issues to gripes about other employees!

      I mean, on one hand – it’s flattering (I guess?) that people choose me and trust me to share their Deep Dark Things™ with, but on the other hand, there’s quite a lot of information I’m holding on quite a lot of people that could really wreck them personally and/or professionally and it’s a bit scary to have that repository in my head.

      Side note: Back in my earlier iteration as an executive assistant, before I took 20 years off to manage a big ol’ family, my VP and I had a very good, very close relationship. Professional, but close. I knew his boyfriend’s name and would occasionally chat with him about whatever home project they were working on, I knew my boss’ date night schedule, etc. Then his behavior turned inexplicably cold, to the point I finally came in, shut the door, and asked if there was something bothering him, was I doing work poorly, what? Because I could tell our working relationship had gone south, seemingly overnight.

      His response was, “You know too much about me.” I protested that the information had been freely exchanged, I would never use any of it against him and it wasn’t anything I *could* use against him, and he just kept reiterating, “You know too much about me.” That cold, arms-length behavior continued right up until he fired me for going on maternity leave a year later. (This was the 90s, things were not kinder or gentler back then. Yes, I went to the Labor Board. No, they did nothing.)

      So yeah – I’m a little perturbed sometimes by how much information people are willing to just blurt out for whatever Reasons they do so.

  165. Anna Bananarama*

    I was talking to my coworker about another coworker, not realizing that she was nearby. She wasn’t alone- she was discussing something with another worker. I was commenting on something that she said. I don’t know if she heard me, but I feel really bad. Should I apologize to her? Should I find out if she heard me?

    1. Former Retail Manager*

      Nope. I’d leave it alone, unless it was absolutely terrible/mean. If it was, “Sally was late with the TPS reports again…” I’d let that ride. If she did overhear you and wants to address it, then she will. If she didn’t hear you, and you bring it to her, it has the potential to create drama where there doesn’t need to be any. And if it’s about her work, I’d encourage you to speak directly to her in the future, unless doing so is prohibitive in some way (i.e. she is a stapler wielding psychopath who might attack you at random.)

  166. Sienna*

    I’ve been getting consistent hits lately from my resume/profile on a niche job board site. Problem is, a number of the recruiters that reach out to me seem to blatantly ignore my profile where it says where I would like to work or can relocate to, my career level (experienced/mid-level), and desired salary. At first, I was politely responding to them all, in the hopes of making a contact and perhaps getting a lead on a better job at the same companies down the line, but now I’m just plain tired. Is it ok to just… not respond to their calls/emails?

    1. Jack Be Nimble*

      You can totally ignore recruiters. It’s polite to send a sentence or two that says “no thanks,” but it’s not rude to ignore them.

    2. The New Wanderer*

      If you don’t want to flat out ignore, which would be fine too, I would create a template email to cut and paste as a generic response. Basically “Thanks for contacting me about this opportunity. I’m not looking to move at this time, but I’ll keep you in mind if my situation changes.” They’re probably cutting and pasting to you, so it’s an even trade.

  167. animaniactoo*

    FYI for designers – I just upgraded to the 2019 Adobe apps. I have no idea what other goodies are in here, but Illustrator’s new Freeform Gradient tool = “Here, take my money”.

    Very easy, but not intuitive to use; hit up YouTube for a tutorial.

      1. animaniactoo*

        Basically, it just rendered the gradient mesh tool into a cumbersome dinosaur. I have no idea what other goodies are in the 2019 versions, but I stumbled across that one and then used it today as soon as I stumbled across the the thing that I would previously have used a bunch of overlays to do rather than fight with the gradient mesh.

  168. teaching?*

    Hey all!

    I’m currently working in HR, a couple years into my career, and I don’t like it. I think I’m just not oriented toward office jobs. I’m thinking about teaching as a profession (specifically, middle or high school math), but I don’t want to quit my job and invest in a training program when I’m on the fence about it. Any teachers out there? Is there a way to gain classroom experience without committing fully to changing careers?

    Thanks!

    1. Former Retail Manager*

      I am not a teacher, but I have a friend who is. She left a well-paying federal job, took a $30k a year pay cut to teach, and HATED it. She has taught in several districts, from large city to small town. She has disliked every single one. She’s now 4 years into the change and still dislikes it and has considered returning to her previous position. Although you are not in a traditional office setting when teaching, the bureaucracy you will encounter will likely astonish you. I assure you, it is beyond anything you’ll encounter in private enterprise and rivals government. My friend was amazed and she worked for the government before leaving to teach. I would encourage you to talk to a variety of teachers, young, old, experienced, middle school, high school, etc. and really ask them to speak openly about the pros and cons. Also, you will work far more than 40 hours per week. She was averaging 55-60 per week during her first couple of years because the learning curve was much bigger than she thought it was. All the teachers I know, say that 50 hrs a week is pretty standard.

      1. The Curator*

        try volunteering at a tutoring program. you might find out that you can’t stand middle schoolers or high-schoolers. Teaching takes stamina. It is high stress. AND don’t imagine that evenings and weekends aren’t taken up with prepping for classes and marking homework and administrative tasks and professional development for continuing ed credits.

    2. Luisa*

      Teacher here! I am a career shifter who started off in a human services field, in a role that had a lot of education components, before getting my teaching license. I love my job overall, but there are definitely bureaucratic hassles and day-to-day challenges that drive me up the wall. As with any potential career change, I suggest doing your due diligence; find out not only if you can handle the actual teaching part but also about working conditions, collective bargaining agreements, and the job market in your local area. Tutoring is a good way to test out the waters, but go in to that with the awareness that tutoring individuals (or even a small group of students) is still quite different from being the primary instructor for a whole class. Good luck in your decision-making process!

    3. Forking great username*

      High school teacher here. It’s difficult to gain this kind of experience when working full time since you’re busy when school is in session. If you were job searching I would say give substitute teaching a try – if you have a college degree, you should be eligible for that. Just need the background check, CPR training, etc. I can’t tgink of any other way besides that and student teaching to experience what really running a class is like. I saw tutoring mentioned above, but I don’t think that’s a fair comparison. Tutoring is generally one on one, which takes out the hardest parts of the job – classroom management and grading.

      I’m in the middle of grading 150 essays on Greek dramas and report card grades are due Monday, so I will avoid saying more since essay grading crunch time never puts me in the most positive mindset, haha.

      1. Forking great username*

        Really think about what has you considering the switch though. I wanted to work with teens and I love writing and literature…but it’s only my first year and I am definitely second guessing my choice to some extent. I miss the occasional downtime that came with an office job. Being able to go to the bathroom whenever I wanted is definitely something I took for granted, as was occasionally letting myself get distracted by the internet at work. With teaching you basically have to be 100% on all day, and that is really tiring! At least on the beginning it is – we’ll see if my body eventually adjusts.

        1. Luisa*

          I have a paraprofessional for one of my classes this year, and the most significant way this has improved my work life is not that he’s another adult who can help out with my very large, very high-needs class, it’s that he can hold down the fort if my bladder is about to explode and I need to duck out to the bathroom.

    4. Zona the Great*

      Teaching was by far the worst job I’ve ever had. I cried everyday from misery—not from mean kids or parents.

    5. Humble Schoolmarm*

      I agree with everything people, have said so far. Teaching has some great moments, a lot of bureaucracy, a lot of long hours and a lot of frustration. You have to be very patient, very flexible and, especially in math, very understanding that some things that are completely obvious to you are total mysteries to your students (this includes both curriculum and interpersonal behaviour). Tutoring will help to show you if you enjoy and are good at explaining concepts to teens, but I would also try to volunteer at a local school as a coach (this could be the math team or the improv club too), which will get you more experience with the teen wrangling part of the job.

  169. The Doctor*

    My coworkers seem to get a strange joy out of messing up my commute. They know when I leave for the day, and they deliberately wait until that exact moment to ask for “one more thing” that will take “just a minute.” My commute consists of two trains plus a bus that runs every 20 minutes, and they all know it (because I once made the mistake of telling them), so they know that “just a minute” always costs me 20 minutes.

    Aaaargh!!!

    1. AnotherLibrarian*

      I think you’re taking something personal that isn’t personal. They probably have no idea and if you reminded them when the conversation started, I think they’d be gracious about it. I certainly don’t know any of my coworkers commute schedules.

    2. Rey*

      There is no good reason for this, and makes me question if the entire office is toxic. I would suggest drawing a hard line, telling them to shoot you an email, etc. You go when you gotta go, and they gotta deal with it. (In a healthy office, even a boss would understand and accommodate bus/train commute unless it is truly an *emergency*.)

    3. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      I think you are reading a little too much into this. I’m sure that my If you get the ‘Just one more thing’ tell them “Sure, I’ll catch you tomorrow morning gotta catch my train” as you walk out.

      Honestly, there’s a great chance that my coworkers have ongoing regular commitments or buses to catch, or trains to catch or other situations that I may have known about at one time, but have since forgotten.

    5. animaniactoo*

      “I’m out the door in ten minutes. Last call for last minute requests. If I don’t have it within 5 minutes it won’t get done today!”

      (I know, you probably can’t do this… but I would try to find a way to make it happen…)

    6. LGC*

      one more thing

      Do you work in a circular office park in California for a trillion dollar company named after a fruit? Do you work for the CEO of that company?

      (And if you do: hook a brother up with a new iPhone, because I’m still on the 7 Plus. And the new MacBook Air looks really good as well…)

      Anyway – what’s stopping you from saying that you really have to go and you’ll get to it first thing tomorrow morning, if it’s not time sensitive? I can see your point about it not always working with office politics, but if you’re clear with the big offenders that you need to leave by 5…that’s their issue to deal with. Train them to not bother you at EOD.

      I’m not sure exactly how much clout you have, but I’m pretty sure that unless you’re very junior and in a hierarchical organization, you can defer stuff until the next morning unless it’s highly urgent.

    8. Kat in VA*

      I have nothing to add but sympathy. My commute (one way) is an hour plus on a GOOD day. A lot of times, folks who live within 5 minutes of the office (often executives) will have “just one more thing”, despite me gently reminding them in the past that every five minutes I add on after 4:45PM will add another 10-15 minutes to my commute. Some days I don’t get home until 6:30PM, 6:45PM because of “just one more thing”.

      DC area traffic is horrible.

  170. Jennifer*

    Well. My boss is leaving and I am getting transferred out of my current shitty team…back to public service, which I am TERRIBLE at. With the ah…most problematic manager here. She likes me now but I fear she will hate my guts once I am hers. That seems to be an issue. She said very nice things about it all and said she wouldn’t put me on the phones and counter right away, but I found out that they are so short staffed for half the week that there is literally no one else to answer phones…so guess how that’s going to go.

    I had someone say to me, “Do they actively want you to leave?” I’ve been told no to that, but… um right.

    I just don’t feel like I can leave. I’m not finding much in this area and I don’t think I can afford to move either.

  171. cactus lady*

    I need some help. Last week I just finished a bunch of travel (really long days, all in a row, some with long flights), which came right after my busy season ended. I don’t have the ability to use vacation days right now, but I’m completely exhausted. I’m having a hard time concentrating and even forcing myself to answer emails. I know this isn’t good. Does anyone have any tips? Would it be weird to use a sick day for this? I’m so tired and I hate not being able to concentrate.

    1. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      Use a sick day! Or just go into work and don’t do anything of note. Either way, give yourself some time to recharge a bit.

    4. NoLongerYoungButLotsWiser*

      Sick day. Because if you don’t, you will be so sick that one day won’t do it.

    5. Kat in VA*

      I’m a firm believer that if you push yourself past the boundaries of what your body can handle, you *will* get sick because your body can’t figure out any other way to make you slow down and rest for a minute.

      Silly, I know, but it’s played out enough times in my life that I realize that “pushing it” feeling.

  172. Anonymous civil servant*

    Today there are posters of the head of my agency photoshopped as a vampire on poles and boxes all around my building. (He’s in the news quite a bit regarding ethics this week, they are clearly connected.) I can’t talk about it at work so I am here…what interesting times we live in.

    1. Phryne*

      hahahahahhahahahhaahahahahahaha

      As a civil servant whose agency head was definitely selected with the intent of having him destroy the agency, I really really enjoy this!

  173. GibbsRule#18*

    I’ve been at my current position for 16 months (at the larger institution for 22 years with an excellent reputation) and it did not go well the first year. Could have something to do with the fact that my mom was diagnosed with terminal cancer in the first month and passed away at the end of the second. Apparently my grief did not fit with my bosses (I have two-always fun! and it’s really just me and them. They are women-as am I-if that matters) schedule and when I screwed up some things (very uncharacteristic for me) it was definitely held against me. Things are much better but I have no idea what kind of reference I’ll get when my job ends in August 2020. What I want to say to my boss is “Listen, am I gonna get a good reference? Because if I’m not, I’d rather cut my losses now and have an 16 month gap on my resume rather than a 3 year gap on my resume”. But I can’t say that, at least not that way, according to people I’ve talked to. Since we are considered a “project” not a program, I guess my bosses don’t feel they have to do silly things like yearly evaluations. Yes, I could ask for one, but I’m scared about what I’d hear! I’m thinking about asking for an informal meeting with the more reasonable of my bosses to just “check in” and then I may get an idea. Does that sound like a good strategy? Oh, also, we don’t see each other very often-I work from home 2-3 days a week and so do they.

    1. Meteor*

      I think it would be appropriate to ask for a meeting with them (phone call?) to check in about your performance. It would be a good opening to acknowledge that it was a rocky start, but that you feel like things are going very well now, and you want to be as useful & strong-performing as possible for your final 16 months. Frame it as a way for you to get direction to do your job better, if needed, or to find out if that you’re performing on par with their expectations now.

    3. Autumnheart*

      You have nearly two full years to improve your work reputation. You are worried about something that happened at work over a year *ago*. Why are you worrying about your reference and thinking about quitting this early, instead of just planning to, you know, keep doing a better job?

      I would recommend the following:

      Create a status report about your progress in the project, where individual items are, what remains to be done, what has been completed, what additional things should be considered, and ask to schedule a meeting to go over things. Don’t focus on your performance and why the mistake happened. It’s over and well under the bridge.

      You said things are much better now. By the time you finish the project, you will have had almost 3 full years between your mistake and your exit. Your concerns are really off-kilter based on what you’ve described.

  174. Peachkins*

    I just applied for a job in my company, but in a different department, that has been advertised at a lower pay than what I’m currently making. This position is a great fit for me- I love the type of work involved with this job, and it would allow me to utilize both my current and past work experience (interesting since my past experience is quite different from what I’m doing now). My company is big on allowing people to move between departments while retaining their pay to allow people to gain experience in different areas. I have an idea, but I’m not completely sure what the difference in pay actually is due to the pay structure and regions involved- it has the potential to be fairly significant. I applied for this position yesterday when it was posted, and I already have an interview for Monday. Normally I wouldn’t bring up salary myself during an interview, but I really do want to give the recruiter a heads up to make sure they’re going to be able to work with me on this before things go any farther. Just wanted to get some opinions on whether this would be okay or if I should wait to try and negotiate on the salary until I receive an actual offer.

    TL;DR version- I’m applying for another job within my current company that pays less than what I make now, and taking a pay cut would be a dealbreaker. Is this something I should address in the interview I already have scheduled or if an offer is made?

    1. AnotherAlison*

      I would talk to the recruiter about it. Even if they allow you to retain your pay, you could be stuck without raises until you get more into the salary band for that job. It might also cause you to rethink the change. It could be fine to do it for a couple years at your current pay, but if you were making a long term change to a career path that would top out at half of where you would be if you stayed where you are, would you do it?

      1. Peachkins*

        Yeah, I definitely plan to discuss it either way. It’s a firm no fire me if I have to take a pay cut, but I would consider if it meant not getting a raise for a couple years. Good news is there is room for advancement in this position, and the next level up from where I’d be is much closer to my current pay band. Guess I’m just not sure when to broach the issue of salary. The recruiter was out of the office today and my interview is Monday. I’m not really going to have a chance to ask ahead of time.

  175. AnotherAlison*

    Sooo, last week I wrote a complainy post that a company had responded to my application via email, offered to interview me for 2 different roles, and then gone silent. Well, turns out it was my fault. I completely missed a VM. I got it straightened out and had an interview today (after a phone screen on Tuesday.)

    I don’t think it went great, but it was okay. It’s a situation where I just don’t have the perfect match experience for what they do, but close. Who knows if it was close enough. One guy seemed disengaged but the other 3 seemed like I was not wasting their time. I am keeping my fingers crossed. It seems like a good move, and while I was worried about the longer commute, it was further in my head than reality.

  176. Meteor*

    Looking for a little gut check… Do you consider advertising to be a silly or meaningless career? I’ve noticed several TV shows making a joke out of people whose jobs are in advertising, and I know my husband (a software engineer ha) does not really respect it at all. He’s just happy that I’m happy and have a nice paycheck. What are your thoughts on people who work in consumer-focused advertising? Thinking about the whole spectrum – from invasive, crappy online pop-ups to beautiful, tear-jerking artistic videos.

    1. Dragoning*

      It’s a totally valid career choice–definitely not silly. But, well, it’s not like I love ads.

    2. BeeJiddy*

      I think I see advertising a lot like I see journalism. Very necessary and makes sense as a career choice but there is definitely a dark side into which it wanders. I don’t think much of the people who prey on consumers’ weaknesses in their advertising (or revert to racist, sexist, ableist etc. nonsense) but I also don’t assume everyone in advertising is like that. As to whether it is meaningless, to be honest, I think that depends a lot on what you are advertising. I don’t think it has to be meaningless though.

      I get where you are coming from though, one of my majors is food science and I really think people assume we sit in labs all day creating franken-foods that make people sick. Yeah, that is definitely a part of the food industry and it sucks, but there is also a lot of really great stuff happening that truly helps people.

    3. Anon Anon Anon*

      Well, if he’s a software engineer, he probably knows that advertising is a major source of revenue in the tech industry. All those free products you can use online? Largely funded by advertising. Just like with newspapers and commercial radio stations. And magazines. And public transportation. Those ads on trains and buses help to make fares more affordable for riders so the whole public transit thing works, and cuts down on emissions, and helps people who can’t drive or can’t afford cars get to work, doctor’s appointments, etc. I’m sure there are tons of other examples too.

      I’m sure you know about all of this. I’m sorry if my post comes across as condescending. I’m really just trying to point out to everyone that advertising plays a more significant role in our society than a lot of people realize. So people shouldn’t make light of careers in that field. I think that gender stereotypes and stereotypes about creative people might play a role there.

      1. Yay commenting on AAM!*

        This might also be why he dislikes ads. There’s a lot of scammy, sketchy online ads, and shady data mining/data use policies for advertising by large tech companies. If he’s someone who has to interact with the bad actors of the online ad industry, and is familiar with their shady tactics, his view of advertising in general might be colored by this.

    4. Autumnheart*

      I’ve noticed software engineers in general think that their role is the only necessary one when products are created, as if things get from inception to the shelf by magic. How would anyone ever know a product was available if it weren’t marketed? And being able to convey information concisely and effectively is a highly valuable skill, and not just in commercial enterprises, but certainly in politics and in government.

      It’s not silly. Every single thing he buys is because of advertising.

  177. Anon (this time)*

    I really don’t understand safe harbor contributions to my 401k and I feel really dumb about it.

    Let’s say I make 50k per year and my employer has a 3% ‘safe harbor’. Does that just mean they’re taking $1,500 of my pay annually and putting it into the 401k whether I elect to contribute more or not? Or does it mean that they are contributing $1,500 IN ADDITION to my $50k gross annually?

    Basically… is it 3% of my income or 3% of their revenue?

    1. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      Adding a link in a reply for more information and to site my source…

      According to SafeHarbor401k.org, plans can allocate contributions in one of three ways:

      Basic: Employer matches 100 percent of the first 3 percent of compensation, plus 50 percent of the next 2 percent of compensation.
      Enhanced: Employer matches 100 percent on the first 4 percent of compensation.
      Non-Elective: Employer contributes 3 percent of compensation to all eligible employees.

      So they aren’t just taking your money without your consent. It is all to do with the employer contributions.

      A broader definition here from the same soon to be linked source:

      A safe harbor 401(k) is a way to structure a plan that automatically passes the non-discrimination test or avoids it altogether. It’s relatively easy to do, but the employer must make contributions to each employee’s plan — the same percentage of salary for everyone. For example, for every contribution made by an employee, the company adds another 5% of their salary. The amount you match will depend on your own contributions as a business owner.

  178. BeeJiddy*

    I’m a university student who is still pretty early on in the game but eventually, I’ll be looking for internships and even further down the road, a job.

    It feels like to me there is a pretty strong anti-student rhetoric floating around, lots of nightmare intern stories and that sort of thing. I mean, I get it, there are certainly members of my cohort I would never want to get stuck working with so I’m not offended by it. But I’m wondering, given it seems to be a big commitment to take on new grads, what is in it for companies? I assume it’s a little bit cheap labour plus simply having to fill entry-level roles as people move up, but there must be something that new grads offer companies that makes it a good idea to hire them. What do you think that is? I want to have this stuff in the back of my mind as I progress because I think it will help me focus on skills that I need to develop. Luckily I’m a mature student (I think they may be called non-traditional students in the US) so I already know a lot about working which helps.

    1. Meteor*

      I have also seen the “nightmare intern” stories on here, but at my company, teams LOVE to have interns. We really try to give them meaningful projects with real impacts (even if they’re short-lived/small).

      The positive perceptions of new grads can be: 1-They have a strong grasp of newer technologies, which can help a team do a better job and grow their results. 2-They have a strong drive to achieve/succeed and will be quick learners, and possibly will work harder than some more tenured associates.

      Definitely look into getting 1-2 (or more!) internships before graduation, as that will be your best chance of landing a great job afterwards. Also it’ll help you find out whether or not you actually like DOING the job, not just learning about it. Good luck!

      1. BeeJiddy*

        Thank you, this was really helpful. At least with a science major there are some opportunities to do research in-house, but I will also be making use of the connections we have with industry to get summer placements etc. when the time comes. Because you are right, I need to figure out what I like doing, and what I’m not super keen on.

    2. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      Yeah, don’t let the bad intern PR color your perception. Most interns are neutral to great and they are seen as that in the wild. It’s the same thing as bosses here, you generally don’t get to hear the good to great boss stories.

      The benefit for the employer is cheaper labor, less commitment, fresh skills, flexibility, and a trial period for a potential new hire (or another avenue to recruit).

      My team has a designated paid intern position, we bring in a new one every semester or two and over the summer. It’s great for me, because I can look ahead and see what projects I have coming up and bring in someone with that skill set, by the time that internship is up it’s likely I’ll have a different project that will need another skill set.

      My group doesn’t believe in the fetch coffee and file model for the interns. They are assigned daily work and they all get one 3 month project to lead, in addition to ad hoc help. My job is to help them earn resume builders and learn office norms. Their job is to jump in and put their new shiny skills to work.

      1. BeeJiddy*

        Thank you, this is all good stuff to know. I’ve gone with a double major where each stands alone, but are very complementary also, so I’m hoping having a wider range of skills makes me more attractive and useful to employers.

  179. MissF*

    I wanted to get some advice with a difficult team member on my team. The issue is that he’s not difficult at all, he’s one of the nicest guys I’ve ever met. But, he is very social and cannot help but chime in on any topic that is being discussed, which derails his entire day.

    He’s missed meetings with myself, his supervisor, because he loses track of time helping another team member. He’s taken on tasks that I’ve never asked him to participate in because someone needed help, but then doesn’t complete the tasks he is assigned. When I talk to him about these patterns of behavior, he takes them so much to heart, but then leaves my office and then does the same thing over and over again.

    He has a huge project that I have had him take on and he’s shown little to no interest in the work. He’ll get the items done that he needs to, but there is no spark or passion to what he’s doing. He wants to make a big splash here, and he’s new, but can’t find a good stride where he feels that he is contributing. Help!

    1. Rey*

      You say that he’s new, and that you’ve already talked to him at least once. That can’t be a good sign. If there’s any chance that your first talk with him was wishy-washy, I would give one more attempt. I would not mention the personality traits at all (he is very social and chimes in). Instead, focus on the problematic habits (missing meetings with his supervisor, doing tasks that he isn’t assigned, missing tasks that he is assigned, and not putting forth his best work on his assignments). Tell him exactly what he needs to do to be successful (attend all meetings, complete only your assigned tasks, put forth your best work) and then lay out a clear timeline and consequences (I need to see a major improvement in this area in the next month, or I will be working with HR to enact a PIP.) If it’s helpful, send a follow-up email after the meeting (i.e., these are the three points we just discussed that you are committed to working on in the next month). And then stay on top of him for the next month. When he’s displaying a problematic behavior, correct him in the moment (ie, if he hasn’t arrived for a meeting or if he is working on a task that he wasn’t assigned, remind him “This is what I was talking about”. If you’re normally hands-off, this might feel like a lot of prompting, but I think after a few prompts, you’ll be able to see if he’s really taking this feedback to heart and pulling it together, or if he is never going to figure it out.

      1. MissF*

        Thank you Rey for your advice. I think it is time for laying out very clear consequences, with a possible PIP. I feel like I am not giving him what he needs as a leader, it’s very puzzling. Not that I am the most stellar leader, but the rest of my team doesn’t have the challenges that he has, nor do they need the constant affirmations to just do adequate work. It’s just a bummer because he is so nice.

  180. Alex*

    Any tips for new job blues?

    Background: I’m two weeks into my new job and I’m struggling with how new everything is. My boss has primarily ignored me. She very clearly plays favorites and being so new, I’m definitely not one of them. I was what you’d call a “rockstar” at my old job and I didn’t realize how much of my identity was wrapped up in that. I’m struggling with not being an all star here and having to ask questions and feeling incompetent.

    I’ve been reading as much documentation as I can to learn the new company quickly but to be frank, they still operate like a start up and don’t have much in the ways of documentation. On top of that, it’s a completely new industry and I feel lost. The onboarding process has been rocky. I’m working on documenting things as I learn them.

    New jobs are harder than I thought. Anyone else been through this and have tips to share?

    1. Trixie*

      Starting a new job is hard and I think it peaks at two weeks in. We forget how hard until we’re in the thick of it again.

      I started a new role (same company, new department) three months ago and it was a tough first couple weeks. You aren’t in a place to dig in and until you have time to work or train with someone, it’s a lot of starting and stopping. Plus the person who was training me was retiring after a long stretch. Every training conversation in the beginning would start with how things were when she first started, years ago, which frankly had no relevance to my situation. This reminded me that not everyone is great or even good at training. My trainer offered a wealth of information but it required sifting to isolate the relevant details. I definitely spent more time with my immediate teammates (training) than I saw my new director. But it was a crazy time and we have since settled into regular weekly meetings.

      As a new team member to the department, I was in a good place to note potential improvements and collect these ideas for future consideration. I am someone who appreciates the challenge of change in the name of system or process improvements to just make things better. So often I hear “that will NEVER happen” or “Good luck with that one.” That attitude of giving up or avoiding change at all cost is not what my directors are looking for. Also, a fresh pair of eyes can substantially improve process notes or can start new ones if documentation is lacking.

      At the end of day, you may end up not liking the position/company but I would give it more time. And remember what attracted you to the new role to begin with.

  181. Rey*

    You say that he’s new, and that you’ve already talked to him at least once. That can’t be a good sign. If there’s any chance that your first talk with him was wishy-washy, I would give one more attempt. I would not mention the personality traits at all (he is very social and chimes in). Instead, focus on the problematic habits (missing meetings with his supervisor, doing tasks that he isn’t assigned, missing tasks that he is assigned, and not putting forth his best work on his assignments). Tell him exactly what he needs to do to be successful (attend all meetings, complete only your assigned tasks, put forth your best work) and then lay out a clear timeline and consequences (I need to see a major improvement in this area in the next month, or I will be working with HR to enact a PIP.) If it’s helpful, send a follow-up email after the meeting (i.e., these are the three points we just discussed that you are committed to working on in the next month). And then stay on top of him for the next month. When he’s displaying a problematic behavior, correct him in the moment (ie, if he hasn’t arrived for a meeting or if he is working on a task that he wasn’t assigned, remind him “This is what I was talking about”. If you’re normally hands-off, this might feel like a lot of prompting, but I think after a few prompts, you’ll be able to see if he’s really taking this feedback to heart and pulling it together, or if he is never going to figure it out.

  182. TooTiredToThink*

    So on the Halloween thread I mentioned that my office was doing a Haunted/Horror mansion theme so I was taking the day off. My day off was *awesome*. Got to see some wonderful sights and just enjoyed the day.

    I had suspected that *some* of the decorations would still be up yesterday; but I didn’t realize all of them. Yeah; I had a very lovely freeze-in place panic attack. My supervisor had to walk me out of the office and guide me outside because I couldn’t move on my own. I was then allowed to telework yesterday. I’m really grateful that she took what was happening seriously.

  183. Too Much Anxiety*

    really just need a reality check… at my current job I’m an hourly employee and my hours are pretty flexible at an office job. I tend to get into work a bit earlier than I’m scheduled for say 7:45am instead of 8am… during the week I end up staying until I’m meant to leave, but this sometimes means by Friday I need to leave an hour or so earlier than normal so I don’t go over 40 hours. No one seems to actually care so I shouldn’t worry about it right? As long as my work is getting done and I’m not missing something important on a Friday (if I knew about something I’d adjust my time accordingly). Everyone doesn’t secretly hate me because I leave early on Fridays, right?

    My previous job was VERY VERY VERY strict about what hours you worked and you couldn’t do anything like this because the likelihood something would need doing late in the afternoon on Friday was extremely high…so I’m still feeling weird about this change even several months into the job…

    1. nice going angelica*

      This seems pretty normal to me, but it might set your mind at ease to check in with your supervisor to make sure this is what they’d prefer that you do.

      1. LGC*

        Pretty much. I’m flexible as possible about this (I’m in an office-like environment), but we do need to have the workload balanced. (It’s procedural work so we need to have a minimum number of people on each task.)

  184. Elizabeth West*

    Job interview next week. Wish me luck. It sounds roughly like my last job, though I doubt it pays as much. But “Act as initial contact with clients on routine matters and gather information as requested” makes me wonder if it’s a front desk position.

    Also NaNoWriMo has begun and I’m already behind, LOL.

    1. OyHiOh*

      I’ve written for a grand total of 2 hours in the past two days, SIGH. I’m using NaNoWriMo for the twin purposes of developing the habit of just showing up and finishing a project that’s been lingering for over two years. I guess I’m winning then? I’ve shown up and written.

    2. Grandma Mazur*

      Good luck! You really deserve this (actually, you deserve something much, much better, but this is a way toward that)

  185. Phryne*

    (changing user name because I referred a few too many coworkers here & they figured out who I was)

    Short version: Has anyone ever become a success in a position after a complete failure of over a year? If so, how?

    Long version:
    I started in this office almost 3 years ago with decades of experience as a top performer. The first 6 months were a little bit of a culture shock (this office has WAY less to do then anyplace I’ve ever worked). Then I got pulled about 75% of my time to work as the lead on a special project for GrandBoss. GrandBoss & I worked great together (he’s one of the most competent managers I’ve ever worked for) for a year but DirectBoss wasn’t happy about the situation. The year also gives me a chance to see all the problems w/ DirectBoss…he undermines GrandBoss constantly & changes direction given (not cool in this type of hierarchical organization), is a misogynist who stays just on the side of plausible deniability after having received a formal reprimand over it (big big deal here), is a terrible communicator, and makes things that should be super straightforward way over-complicated along with a tendency to scrap work & start over but then go back to what was scrapped. I’m ashamed to admit, but after a few months of trying to move things I just sortof gave up the fight. So now we’re at the point where he thinks I’m a useless idiot & I think he’s a useless idiot….both of us with good reason. The remaining project of his I have left that is remotely worth paying someone at my level to do he’s planning on moving over to a (male) employee who suggested we do the exact same thing I’ve been trying to do with it but getting told “no” on. I’m wondering if this is even worth attempting to salvage and turn-around, or if I just need to take a transfer to a different division (Thankfully GrandBoss still approves of me and is willing to arrange it. GrandBoss’s hands are tied to do any more about DirectBoss. I don’t really want to do the transfer because it would lock me into staying in this location for another 2 years and I’d like to relocate sooner than that but a reputation as a slacker who can’t move projects forward when the men in the division can isn’t good either.)

    GAH!!!!!
    (ok, I feel better just for having typed it out)

    1. AshK434*

      doesn’t prefacing the fact that you changed your username bc your identity was revealed sort of defeat the purpose of changing your name especially if it’s not germane to the story? It’s like you’re waving a big flag that says Hey it’s me!

      1. Phryne*

        More for Alison as she’s made a few comments about people using different user names. And since several people have changed theirs recently and I think this is a fairly common situation, I’m not too worried :)

    2. The Doctor*

      Why would you be “locked in” for two years with an internal transfer? My employer (a state-level public authority) sees lots of people leave soon after an internal transfer.

  186. Pathfinder Ryder*

    My last day at current job is next Friday. I don’t have my start time and meetup point for the first day of new job, though I’ve had some contact (I asked about dress code since I had a hair appointment and usually have some unnatural hair color in and they got back to me by the end of the day). If I don’t hear back by the close of Monday, I’m e-mailing.

  187. Dee Dee*

    I work in a civil service position for a public school district. Last year I was moved to a different position. Rather than apologizing, my old boss initiated a sexual harrassment investigation because I accused him of making a vulgar comment/joke. It ended with him being cleared and me requesting that I be moved to a different job in the district. I’m very happy where I am now, but I just received a canvass letter for a higher job title at another school district with a much higher salary. What should i say if asked why I switched positions at the current school district. The position I’m in now has always been “clerk typist” one title lower than my old job title “senior clerk typist”. I was working for the director of a department and even though I still have the “senior” title, I no longer work for a department head. I obviously wouldn’t say anything negative about any boss. Other than not getting along with the old boss, I was told by the superintendent my work is fine. However, he basically insinuated I was lying about what happened and I’m too emotional. So I’m also concerned that when contacted by a potential employer, the head of HR will divulge the superintendent’s negative opinion about me…it’s obviously in my file. Or should I speak with the head of HR if I end up interviewing and am interested in the job to ask if he’ll give me a positive reference?

    2. atexit8*

      I am confused.

      Is this superintendent position below department head?
      So he is your current supervisor and he doesn’t believe you were sexually harassed?
      Why is his “opinion” in your file?

        1. WellRed*

          Are you in the US? Telling you your too emotional is such a male putdown! Are you sure his opinion (!) Is in the file? Or that they will contact HR? As to your answer, if asked, will the old “fit” standby work?

        2. atexit8*

          I would still apply.

          I don’t see any problem with asking other members of management team to provide references.
          I would get head of HR and someone else if possible.

          Good luck.

  188. Anon Anon Anon*

    Today, someone said something gross to me in a professional context. It touched a raw nerve, brought back a lot of bad memories, and I cried all day. I also felt gross for telling him he was being gross. Because I like to be nice and when I get angry, even in self-defense, it freaks me out.

    I don’t want to repeat the comment here, but it was one of those situations where someone was being increasingly weird, and I usually wouldn’t have responded, but instead I told him very politely that he was coming across as confrontational and could he please relax and be more straight forward. This wasn’t in an office. We’re both creatives doing our own projects and we have day jobs. So it could also be called a hobby, but this was in a more professional type of conversation. Anyway, he responded to that by telling me that I owed him an apology and then making a really gross vulgar remark, followed by calling me completely incompetent at the thing we both do. I wasn’t feeling well and wasn’t using the best judgment – arguably – so I kept responding and telling him that I don’t deserve to be talked to like that.

    I confided in a friend about it and he didn’t really have my back. He told me to just leave it alone and get over it. So I felt let down, mostly because it was part of a bigger picture of too many people being jerks. So I had a really unproductive day, I did some writing, and I have a headache from crying too much. I’m just so sick of being treated like that and seeing other people being treated like that, and the mentality that it’s ok for some people to act like that and we’re horrible people if we disagree with it. All I said was, “I’m nice. There’s no reason to talk to me that way.” If that’s a horrible thing to say following an NSFW insult, what’s next? People can be so disappointing sometimes. But I just keep in mind that by choosing not to tolerate that stuff, I’m doing some good for everyone else who goes through the same thing, and maybe as the jerks leave my life, nicer people will replace them.

    1. Dee Dee*

      It’s scary how familiar your situation sounds….mine was boss/assistant relationship. My feeling is nobody can tell me how I should feel….if it feels gross to you, it is gross. My husband at first didn’t get why I was so upset…..crying myself to sleep. I kept explaining I couldn’t understand how my boss could have so little respect for me and think that it was ok to joke along with another man present that way with me ? And then they both lied during the investigation. I believe karma will catch up to them both.

    2. Lilysparrow*

      Some people devote their time & energy to unpaid or smaller professional creative endeavors because they are building their skills. Some because their life demands stability but they enjoy the work. And some inhabit that zone because they are dysfunctional or predatory, and they can get away with crap that wouldn’t fly elsewhere.

      Im really sorry you had a week full of jerks. Manipulative horrible people always blame others for their bad behavior and believe that the worst crime is when people fail to comply with their wishes. Dont accept their twisted reality. You don’t have to put up with being treated badly.

      I hope you get some good rest, and have opportunity as you go forward to develop strategies for addressing this type of crap in ways that make you feel empowered. (Not diagnosing this particular jerk, but reading up on dealing with narcissists could be useful – there are a lot of them out there, and most jerkyness has an element of narcissism.)

      1. Anon Anon Anon*

        Yeah. My parents are like that, and I’ve been dealing with people like that my whole life. There was a time when I also had some friends who were nice. Unfortunately, some of those people fell prey to abusive types and I slowly lost touch with others.

        I have a policy where I talk to anyone who contacts me about my creative stuff. I answer people’s questions and I don’t ignore people. Unfortunately, some people use that as a gateway to be abusive and I’ve been dealing with a bunch of situations like that recently. The down side of giving people the benefit of the doubt. I understand the dynamics of it. It’s the volume and frequency that catches me off guard.

        Unfortunately, I’m probably going to have to make myself a little harder to contact. I want to be friendly and accessible to everyone who wants to talk to me, but I also have to protect myself to a reasonable extent.

  189. Distracted At Work*

    The person I supervise has confided informally that there is a history of mental disability in his family which he may have inherited. He’s never requested accommodations for it, and his performance continues to go up and down – one month might be great, but a couple of months later, he’s struggling to focus well enough to get basic paperwork done. The specific condition that he thinks he may have is something I’m very familiar with – but without a solid diagnosis and treatment on his end, followed by a formal request for accommodations, I believe I’ve done everything I can do to help him succeed.

    We’ve tried out different configurations of supervisors and supervision style, trying to find a way to get more great months than challenging ones, and nothing’s been consistent. We’re at a point where I’ve been directed to document his performance with an aim to have a review and reset some expectations – and knowing that we may need to fire him if that’s not successful. This is my first supervision assignment, and I don’t know how to proceed with coaching/supervising/documenting – and as much as I love my workplace, there’s not many people I can turn to for help.

    1. Tilly*

      “but without a solid diagnosis and treatment on his end, followed by a formal request for accommodations”

      Are you sure? Have you consulted HR or the relevant government body?

      I’m in the UK. I am not a lawyer but can tell you that over here the law does not require a formal diagnosis of a specific condition for someone to be legally entitled to accommodations. They only need to make their employer aware that they might need them due to a long term impairment.

      I think you need proper advice. If you did what you’ve described in this country you would be making yourself liable for an employment tribunal.

    2. Canter Urban*

      If there are accommodations he could formally request that you could give, then you clearly haven’t actually done everything you can to help him succeed. He shouldn’t need more paperwork to justify those accommodations, if they exist and are achievable.

    3. Distracted At Work*

      Bother, my first time commenting and of course, I summarize so well I leave stuff out and then forget that I’d promised myself I’d watch the thread over the weekend.

      My situation is a little like Nervous Accountant’s above: I’m in this supervisory position with limited authority as a means of helping me develop skills I didn’t already have. Supervising people and managing projects are skills I need in order to take my career to the next step, whether it’s at my current organization or another.

      We’re too small to have dedicated HR, which means my boss does it. And he’s the one who told me that I should plan to start documenting with an eye to creating a performance improvement plan (is that PIP??) and terminating if need be. However, Bossman and I have different expectations about directions – he’s always handed projects off with what I would consider to be 1/3 of the information necessary. We did pay for me to attend a workshop on supervising staff, but what to document and how to document it wasn’t covered in any kind of detail. So yes, having an HR expert I could talk to would be kind of amazing, both to clarify what I need to do here and what our responsibility is based on an informal report of a disabling condition. I know JAN is available to talk to about the latter, but they’re not a resource on the former.

      In regards to Supervisee and the maybe-disability – I’ve researched what kind of accommodations would make sense, and they’re things like making things visible, providing calendaring tools, timers, etc. I’ve been told that in the US, it’s not legal to offer accommodations based on an informal report – the person affected is responsible for making the request and saying “I need X in order to accommodate for impairments.” And there’s wording about it in our company policy – employees with a disability may request accommodations by going directly to Bossman, etc. Although that hasn’t happened, I have increased the frequency of check-in meetings to help Supervisee stay aware of performance expectations and attempted to provide accountability for work getting done by requesting a daily email listing what projects they will be working on – things that seem like reasonable responses from a supervisor in a performance situation.

      Where we’re at is that Supervisee’s performance ranges from poor to adequate – occasional pay periods where a quarter of the time was spent filling out timesheets; projects that take much longer than they should – for a variety of reasons ranging from failure to handle interruptions well to failure to keep track of and implement a series of steps; excessive use of sick time and PTO (they are regularly needing to take unpaid time off due to running out of accrued time – we’ve been lenient and permitted it, but it’s definitely cutting into their ability to meet productivity goals); and just plain not meeting productivity goals – we do consulting work, and they have some minimums on billable time needed to cover expenses. All things which could be attributed to impairments, and which the increased supervision and accountability requirements are helping with, but not resolving.

  190. Teapot Translator*

    After months of indecision, I have finally decided to start searching for a new job. I am currently employed; I like my colleagues; the benefits are great, but it’s not in translation, and the more time passes, the more I become afraid that I’ll convince myself that I’m a bad translator and I should settle for what I have. And that’s not good for my health. Something happened this week that gave me a figurative kick in the butt. I have started applying, but my cover letters are not the best. I figure I have time to get better at it. It’s not as if I need a new job right now. It’s hard to balance the need to send my application quickly enough that I don’t have time to second guess myself, while also taking the time to personalize it for each job.

    1. Triplestep*

      Since you’re happy where you are, you can take the time to personalize your cover letters. Use the advice in the archives here to do so. Keep a folder on your computer for every job you apply for that includes the job posting, the resume you used, and the cover letter. Then you can go back and cobble together cover letters from ones you’ve written before. (I even keep in these folders thank you notes, or anything else that pertains to the job that I may need later.)

      I am miserable in my job so I’m searching frantically. I try to send out a few each week. But if you don’t have to do that, take your time and it will get easier.

      Good luck!

  191. Dishes*

    New job managing a new team. Today I received two emails about attendance from two different employees. The first one told me he had a scheduled half day PTO today and will be leaving early. Problem is he never requested this PTO with me, so how can it be a scheduled when I didn’t know about it nor approved it? The other email is from another employee telling me he had a family emergency and he is leaving early and will be working from home. This is third time he had to leave early and work from home on a Friday. Telling me instead of asking. Being new, I didn’t say anything because I wasn’t sure of the culture here. I’ve read this blog enough to know people will day as long as they get their work done, it doesn’t matter whether they work from home or not. Both these employees are medicore. I am suspicious of these Friday’s work from home. Thoughts?

    1. atexit8*

      The first is easy. He didn’t tell you, so it wasn’t scheduled.
      The second is also easy. Three times is abusing it in my option. But you should check with your company’s official policy if there is one.

      I have never been a manager, though I once had a manager that worked from home every Wednesday. He was mediocre. He was laid off at the next round of staff reductions.

      1. Sabine the Very Mean*

        Yep. Do a classic Alison move: Jeff, I noticed you’ve had to leave to work from home due to family emergencies and they’ve all been on Friday afternoons. What’s going on?

        Maybe you’ll learn that Fridays are when a family member receives dailysis/chemo/leeching treatments. Maybe it’s the only day the family can’t find childcare. Maybe school lets out early and they’re barely making it. Won’t change that you need better from them but you’d learn what you need to know to move forward.

    2. Anono-me*

      Double check that the first person didn’t schedule the 1/2 day of leave with your predecessor. (I worked one place that allowed leave to be scheduled up to a year in advance under certain circumstances.)

      1. Dishes*

        That’s the first thing I did was check to see if this PTO was scheduled with my boss (his interim boss while my position was vacant). It wasn’t.

        1. Autumnheart*

          My umbrella team recently had occasion to do this. The category managers conferred as a group, then sent out a team-wide email reiterating the expectations around requesting PTO/accommodations for appointments, re-stating that people needed to make a formal request with their manager and have it approved, and that work-from-home requests should be made in advance except in case of emergency. They finished by saying people should follow up with their respective manager if there were any further questions.

          Basically it served as a “reset” so that they had leverage to address people who were taking too many liberties with PTO/WFH requests.

    3. Triplestep*

      My first thought on reading this is “who cares?” Are they getting their work done? Could your predecessor have OK’d the PTO and not logged it anywhere? Have you been their boss long enough to know if they are “mediocre?” And even if you have, do you think that denying them their work from home or PTO is going to make them BETTER than mediocre?

      I can tell you from experience, resentment has made me way worse at my job. If I was being treated as an adult who had some autonomy, I’d feel valued and want to return the favor. I may be projecting here, but your post reeks of “I need to show them who’s boss!” If there’s no real reason not to allow the PTO or work from home other than the need to show them you’re their boss, please re-think it.

      1. valentine*

        I’ve never worked anywhere where the employee tells, rather than asks. Dishes, you haven’t set expectations with them, but you can do so at any time, in the moment. You can tell them no. The more instances you approve, the more you’re letting them set a new standard. It’s never too late to stop that, however. Maybe their performance has to improve before they can take sudden PTO. Maybe you define emergency and set a protocol where they need an email from you confirming permission to leave for the day.

        1. Triplestep*

          When I’ve worked somewhere with a remote work policy, I tell. I don’t ask. I expected my manager to let me know if something about my planned schedule did not work operationally, but otherwise, I was treated as an adult who could manage my own time.

          YMMV with people who are hourly rather than salaried, or have a lower level of responsibility. But I can tell you that making people feel like children does not get the best work out of them. Explore your motivation for “setting expectations.” If it’s for coverage or anything else operational, by all means. But if it’s to Lord it over them that you’re the boss and they should ASK, dammit – rethink.

    4. The New Wanderer*

      In the “scheduled” PTO case, I would just clarify with him (with the whole staff, really, using this as the unspoken motivation) that you require X amount/type of notice of PTO use. Note that if your requirement is vastly different from the previous manager, or from other current managers, you may have some pushback but you should make the expectations clear in any case.

      For the Friday guy, is there any way to verify that he is in fact working from home on Friday afternoons? If it’s a family emergency, it seems like he shouldn’t be able to work because the whole point of leaving for an emergency is to be responding to it, not continuing to work in another location, so that’s (IMO) a very thin justification for WFH. Did he have permission to WFH previously, or was it denied and so this is his attempt at a loophole because you’re new? Is WFH a common think at your office or a rare perk granted only to high performers? Personally, and depending on the office WFH philosophy, I would tell him that WFH is not an option for him due to less than stellar performance, and that (generally, for everyone) having to leave early for a family emergency will require PTO use (or whatever the policy should be so as not to abuse WFH).

      1. Dishes*

        TNW – thank you for your constructive feedback. I am going to use both yours and Sabine advice on handling the PTO issue.

        As for the WFH issue, should I have address his emergency the first time around? At the time, I thought it was a truly a one-off event so I approved it at the time and the second time. It wasn’t until this Friday that I begin to see a pattern emerging. I didn’t say anything to him because I was unsured what to say especially since I didn’t set any expectations being new to the company. I might have been a bit naive to think as professional, they both should have the curiosity to ask me instead of just informing me. Plus at other places WFH is usually prescheduled except for inclement weather day – even that we usually know ahead of time because of the weathe forecast. But going forward, when should I set my expectations for the team?

        1. WellRed*

          I think letting the emergency go the first time was the way to go. After all, it’s only with further information that you are now doubting whether it truly counted as one. Now, you need to address the pattern. Also, the mediocre work. Even if his emergencies are legitimate, which I doubt, that needs to happen.

        2. WellRed*

          Sorry, to answer your question, time to set expectations. If it helps, frame it in your mind as, setting expectations will help them meet those expectations ( in theory, at least).

  192. Jo*

    This week has been crazy at work. We got a new program manager in August 2018, while the old one was put on a different contract. It should also be noted that the company has had high turnover, which doesn’t make us look good (we’re contractors for a U.S. agency) and the government staff all liked the old manager we had. Now that she’s gone, government staff are asking us where she is and what happened. The problem is that the CEO of the company I work for isn’t great at hiring people or paying them good wages/salaries for the area I’m in. So far, there are only two senior staff who are responsible for training all new staff since everyone is trying to get out of the company. Now one of the senior staff members is the interim program manager while they try to search for someone else. On top of that, one of the former economists also can’t keep anything to themselves and somehow managed to get a job at the HQ where they’re in HR now, which is literally only them and a senior administrator who deals with payroll and benefits since the company contracted those out, and has a tendency to promote those who go to their church, which, to me, seems like they really don’t have a clear sense of keeping work and personal life separate.
    TL;DR – we lost our manager, we’re looking for a new one, in a company with high staff turnover which makes the company look bad, and incompetent HR. No one knows anything and the CEO shut senior staff down when they asked what response we should give when asked by government employees.
    Also, question from someone new to the workforce: what’s a good amount of time to ask for a vacation overseas? I’m traveling out of the country and only asked for two weeks, but today I found out that one of the other staff members got three weeks to go to a different country which makes me feel like an idiot for not asking for more time off, especially over the holidays when it’ll be quiet. Thoughts?

    1. Autumnheart*

      “The previous manager was reassigned to another project, and we’re actively searching to backfill her position.” The rest of the stuff isn’t relevant, and there’s no point in advertising your internal churn to government staff or anyone else.

      The PTO question depends on how much vacation you’re granted as part of your compensation, and how many weeks you can afford to travel.

      1. Tech Writer*

        Oh thanks. Literally no one knows what’s going on, and the CEO of the company did come by to let government staff know that the company is actively looking to fill the position of program manager.

        Regarding PTO, I thought I only had two weeks saved up since I rarely use it and I found out on Friday that I could have asked for three weeks since I’ll have enough hours to travel for three weeks, after I bought the tickets. I don’t think we’re granted specific vacation weeks, just PTO that’s accumulated over the year so I’ll be using it all on this trip.

  193. Tech Writer*

    So much drama going on at work. We got a new program manager in August 2018, who had serious friction with the old program manager, which was brought up to the CEO of the company and the old program manager was shifted to a different contract. This week, the new program manager was (according to the grapevine) escorted out by federal employees after handing over her ID badge. One of the senior staff members that federal employees have worked with is stepping in as program manager in the interim while also doing tech writing. Since I joined the company in February 2018, we’ve lost a total of four people (economist, two program managers, tech writer).
    It also doesn’t help that all of our staff is strange in some way. Our former economist is now at HQ in HR with one other administrator who does payroll, benefits, etc. while he handles hirings. The economist has a tendency to hire people who come from their church as well, and has a tendency to run their mouth and on the CEO’s bad books. Add onto that a Sharepoint specialist who doesn’t come in and won’t let anyone know where they are, a tech writer with the tendency to eat noticeable foods and ignore body functions, every few minutes take breaks, and two staff members who need to train junior staff while also busy with their own projects.
    TL;DR – company has unprofessional behavior by previous staff with employees not showing up or ignoring body functions, sketchy CEO and the firing of the new program manager after four months in, being underpaid after doing research into how much junior tech writers should be making, and a host of other issues.
    Also, totally off topic but question: for junior staff, how long should vacations be? I’m traveling overseas and only asked for two weeks off, but today I found out that one of the other junior staff members asked for three weeks and now I feel like an idiot for not asking for three weeks. I thought that as junior staff, we could only have two weeks off, since anymore would burden the company and make me look bad when evaluations come up in February 2019 for me.

  194. Dancer*

    In my job, many of us, including me, are going through rough times on a regular basis, often to the point that people come into work looking like they are barely holding on. The job doesn’t pay well and the work is hard (it shouldn’t be, but the company has bad metrics) and anything that goes wrong outside of work just adds onto the stress. We have a ton of call-outs, too, so anyone who shows up gets overworked.

    I’ve had really bad days when I just really needed someone to show me that they cared about me and the world wasn’t an awful place. But if someone asked me what was wrong, it was usually too painful/complicated to give a real answer, so I just said, “I’m tired” or, “it’s been a rough day.” But that still leaves me feeling alone. What can I say to my coworkers when I can see they’re going through hell and I want to show them some kindness? I don’t want to pry (although I’m a good listener and can keep a secret if they need to talk), I just want to help others get through if I can.

    A few phrases that have helped me were, “I’m glad you’re here,” “Thanks for working through it,” (said after I had a migraine), “You’re smart, I can tell you have a system” (said by a new supervisor about my method of work). But I can see how those could be misinterpreted or how it might be awkward for me to say them. Any suggestions for alternative supportive phrases?

    (Note: I do NOT want to make people feel like they have to put on a happy face. And I don’t expect to be able to fix their problems, I just want them to know that I care and maybe help them feel a bit better.)

    1. OlympiasEpiriot*

      Wow. This is rough. I think the phrases you’ve said have helped you would probably be good for others, too. I think just being absolutely present and really seeing the person when you talk with them is good. Nice words don’t mean much without the realness of the person saying them being present.

      I’m really sorry to hear that there’s such a mass of people at a company where so many are suffering frequently.

  195. Lorde*

    This is late and doubt anyone will read it but taking a chance. My employer is making us share rooms for business trips. We raised the issue of privacy and personal boundaries to her and she responded with “this is the way we do it.” – Fine, so I decide to book my own room out of my own pocket. Now she is annoyed that I have done it and asked why I didn’t bring up “how big of a deal it was to share” during our last conversation “when she asked our consent” (she didn’t) and explained that our budget does not allow for “luxury accommodation”. I don’t think having my own room is a luxury and I (and my colleague who spoke w her) was under the impression that we did not have a choice. So I made a backup plan for myself. I apologised for not making my concerns clear enough. I don’t think I’m in the wrong here and I’m confused about the whole situation. End rant!

    1. MattKnifeNinja*

      If you search the archives here, this nonsense of room sharing has been addressed more than a few times.

      From what I gathered, it is common with non profits and university settings. (allegedly no money)

      At 20, I wouldn’t have an issue if it was same sexrooms, because I wouldn’t have known better. At 54, no f*cking way. I have a BiPAP machine (central sleep apnea). I cough a lot in my sleep (asthma) My roomie would murder me before the night is over. I have friends who get up at night to pee. That can aggravate people.

      You aren’t bonding with your besty room sharing in Jamaica. This is work. I hate people in the morning when I’m getting ready. I don’t want to deal with others’ weirdnesses.

      As long as you aren’t billing the company for the room, what does the boss care? I probably would have said I snore, and it isn’t about luxury accommodations. It’s about keeping my coworker happy and getting some sleep.

      I hate when bosses treat business trips like sleep over camp.

      1. Kat in VA*

        I’m in the same boat with night noises – except that I hold my breath and groan in my sleep (it’s called catathrenia and it sounds *extremely* sexual), grind my teeth, talk sometimes, and once in a while when under stress, I will scream bloody murder.

        Nope to sharing rooms. Just nope forever.

    2. WellRed*

      You are not in the wrong. I have a feeling this isn’t the first time your boss has been unreasonable or tried to turn things back on others to blame them.

    3. Alianora*

      You’re not in the wrong here, but if there’s a situation like this in the future, you could say something like, “Given that the company policy doesn’t allow for separate rooms, I’ll plan to book my own out of pocket.” Just so your boss knows what you’re planning to do before you go ahead and do it. It’s unreasonable for her to be upset at you for this, though.

    4. nonegiven*

      I’d have said up front, if the company can’t afford a private room for me, then the company can’t afford to send me on this trip.

    5. MissDisplaced*

      You’re not in the wrong AT ALL to want a private hotel room.
      But you probably should have spoke up when she said “this is the way we do it” by telling her that if this was the company policy, you would book a private room out of your own pocket. Personally, I think it sucks to be expected to pay for your own room during any work trip, but I would choose to do the same!

      Like the ONLY way I would share a room is if there were some emergency situation or something.

      1. Lorde*

        To be honest I did say that and said if you don’t need me on this trip, then I will not go. She said the trip is optional and then changed her mind and I should have stood strong but I plan to really try and nip this in the bud next week after the trip. I need to clarify if this is company policy and If it is, why it wasn’t brought up during my interviews. I’ve only been in the role for 2 months and when I did ask about any travel, they said it wasn’t really in the job description. So there’s that as well. I am on a 6 month probation (which I asked for), so this is all good things for me to take note of. I truly appreciate everyone’s reply. If anyone else has any more insight, I’m all ears/eyes. Thank you again!

  196. Killing me softly with his song*

    I might be too late this week, but I’ll give it a go: I work in a research lab where graduate students do rotations to decide where they want to do their thesis work. Our current rotation student whistles while he works. He’s very good at it, but it’s very loud and distracting, especially since he whistles along with the music on his headphones. No one knows what to say so it’s gone on for 4 weeks now, which makes it harder. Does anyone have any advice for framing a request to cut it out? The other thing to keep in mind is that rotation students are notoriously insecure, so we’re worried about making him feel unwelcome, unwanted, or inadequate.

    1. Victoria, Please*

      Do say something before someone loses their S and blows up at him!

      Joe, you are a great whistler, you could do concerts! But it’s super distracting in the lab, can you please stop thanks.

    2. Alianora*

      There’s only so much you can do to manage an insecure person’s feelings. Best thing is to treat it like the minor request that it is. Just be casual — Victoria’s wording is good. Then move on and let him feel what he feels. It’s ultimately not a big deal, so he’ll get over it as long as you’re friendly and matter-of-fact.

  197. Punk A$$ Book Jockey*

    hi!

    this might be a bit of a longshot, but…. (and fr the record, if it matters, I am a librarian)

    a coworker recently put in their notice. they weren’t here for very long, a few months at the very most, and while we’re not in the same department, we do work closely together, and we talked a lot while doing so. I know some of the reasons why they’re quitting, some of which have to do with the job itself.

    for example, our youth services department can get pretty busy after school, and it can be hard to handle. I don’t know how much this coworker was expecting that, and I know this caused them a lot of stress. (for the record, the department head is more than aware, but we’re all on a single floor so there’s only so much to be done right now.) I don’t know what kinds of questions were asked at the interview, but I’m wondering if I should say something to someone, so that maybe they can ask different interview questions to this next person?

    or should I just let this go? we work in different departments, but we’re equal in terms of positions, I’ve just been here for longer (less than a year).

    1. Punk A$$ Book Jockey*

      nvm, I did talk to the department head. in part because she asked, but also because she mentioned she had a hunch about this employee and how she was feeling.

    2. Punk A$$ Book Jockey*

      nvm, I did talk to the department head. in part because she asked, but also because she mentioned she had a hunch about this employee and how she was feeling.

  198. Laughter heals*

    TGIF everyone! Just finished watching Office Space. Hilarious.. Good therapy after a loooong week.

  200. Seed*

    For places that give a referral bonus, is it possible to add a referral after the resume is already submitted? I have a friend who works at a place that I already submitted a resume through their website – should I still name drop him?

  201. Alianora*

    I’m nervous about the prospect of quitting a job after working here for just over a month. Any advice?

    Context: I applied to a stretch job a couple days before I got the offer for my current job, which I accepted. About two weeks into my current job, the other workplace contacted me for a phone interview. I didn’t think it was likely to go anywhere, but I did the interview. It went well, they brought me in for an in-person interview, and now they’ve checked my references and want me to come in for a final round of interviews with the rest of the team. Not a done deal, but I can’t help but think through what would happen if I did get an offer. Salary-wise, it’s a lateral move, but it’s much more interesting work and a nicer work environment than my current job.

    My current job is fine and what I expected, but there’s a lot of downtime and no room for growth (I’ve talked to my manager and coworkers about this, it’s just a part of the job). I took it expecting to stay for a year or so, gain some experience, and move on. I’m sure they’ll get on fine without me, but I feel guilty at the thought of leaving them so soon and for continuing to interview after I started. So the idea of quitting is making me really nervous.

    1. WellRed*

      Apologize, tell them the opportunity dropped in your lap and was too good to pass up. Be gracious and offer to work out your notice or wrap things up immediately, whatever makes the most sense. At least you are only 1 month it. They might even be able to hire a replacement quickly from their last hiring round.

    2. MissDisplaced*

      I had a similar situation a few years back. Applying/interviewing for jobs. I accepted Job B and began working there (but it was underpaid, and I didn’t like manager very much). About 3 weeks in, Job A calls and offers me the job after not hearing anything from them for months! And it was for double the salary!

      If you like the other job better take it. Do what is best for you.
      You may burn some bridges, but even so try to be as professional about it as you possibly can, give some reasonable notice period, and explain that you really took the job good faith, but are finding it just isn’t the best fit for you compared to other offer.
      In the end, it’s not personal. It’s business.

  202. Claire*

    I don’t have an issue to share. Well, I do, but the harassment charge I filed is in progress, and I can’t share more about that yet. I just wanted to say that I really appreciate this blog and the community. Y’all are keeping me sane. Thank you! Now back to work on my second career as a novelist. (Next book coming out next summer!)

  203. Charles Boyle*

    I need some feedback on what to do in this situation: I work for a nonprofit that is religiously affiliated (in an at-will state), and all employees occasionally have to attend mandatory church services and religious retreats during work hours. I am not religious at all, but I am not “out” at work so to speak. On my personnel form I left the “religion” field blank. When it comes to things like attending church services during work hours, I don’t mind so much because I can attend without actively participating; as I understand it, I’m obligated to attend because that’s what my employer requires, but I don’t have to participate.

    However, with things like an all-day retreat which is led by an outside religious figure, I don’t quite know the best way to handle it. My department is very progressive and welcoming, and my boss is supportive, but my grandboss isn’t very fond of me and I don’t want to give her further reason to dislike me by seeming like I have a bad attitude about this mandatory retreat or coming across as irreverent. On the other hand, I feel queasy about feigning active religious belief for activities and small group sessions. I’m sure there will be some secular “professional development” type stuff during this retreat, but most of it will be religious (they’ve asked us to bring a Bible with us to the retreat). FWIW, I’m one of the youngest people in my organization.

    1. Jasnah*

      If you’re already in the situation where “all employees occasionally have to attend mandatory church services and religious retreats during work hours”, I’m not sure if you can really push back against attending this one just because the speaker is invited from outside, as opposed to led by an internal religious figure. Also I really doubt if it would be safe for you professionally and socially to do so.

      You say your boss is supportive. Can you ask your boss how they would like you to handle things like the small group discussions and bringing your Bible? Perhaps you could fall back on vague excuses like “my relationship with God/my spirituality is very personal to me” or “I’m very private about my faith but I don’t want that to stop anyone else from participating”. See what your boss suggests, and if they are unhelpful–might be weirder to sit out than to suck it up and go–because of your grandboss and at-will situation, I would recommend participating as passively as possible–redirecting everything to others, ceding the floor whenever possible, commenting on others rather than yourself (“That was very thoughtfully said”) so it sounds like you’re contributing more than you are, and rewording your beliefs so they come across universally (“I just try to see the good in others and treat them as I would like to be treated”).

  204. FormerPangolin*

    This might be a bit of stretch but is there anyone who might be willing to look over my resume/cover letter? I’ve had a couple friends and family members take a look. Made some minor edits based on feedback but I’m not getting a lot of interest. If anyone would be willing I would really appreciate it!

Comments are closed.