open thread – February 15-16, 2019

by Alison Green on February 15, 2019

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue.

You may also like:
{ 1,702 comments }

{ 1,702 comments… read them below }

  1. dorothy_parker*

    Anyone have advice for dealing with a boss’ who’s moods rules how she interacts with her team? I’m on a small team and my manager clearly thinks of herself as direct when, in reality, she’s rude and condescending. Good example, my coworker went to join in a conversation our manager was having with a colleague not on our team. This coworker can overstep on office norms and involve herself when not asked. However, my boss handles this not by simply saying, “Joey, I’ve got this, you can refocus on what you’re working on.” And instead, throws her hand out and waves her away with a snippy, “you don’t need to be here”. This happens often with all of us and it’s frustrating because you never know how she’ll react to simply questions (sometimes you get long, condescending over-explainers, other times, she’ll be super nice and give a simple nod). She also gets superdefensive and is a crappy communicator so more than once, she has not handed projects off to me then suddenly asks me what their status is. She gets very rude if someone points out an error she made, no matter how legit. I like my job, love my company, but I don’t know how much longer I can stay in this role because of her.

    1. Ann O'Nemity*

      That sounds terrible. I wouldn’t want to put up with it either.
      And it’s something that I don’t think you can fix. The best you can do is find a way to ignore it or not let it bother you – if all the good things about the job outweigh this terrible one.

    3. Moonbeam Malone*

      Since she’s not a good communicator, documentation is always your friend. It’s not going to be a magic bullet that fixes everything, but if nothing else it helps your sanity to look back at your own notes and know the score beyond a doubt. Get things in writing from her when possible.

      As far as when she launches into the over-explainers, it might help to just take a step back and say, “This isn’t what /I/ need, but it’s what /she/ needs for whatever reason, so I will wait patiently and nod my head, and give her what she needs from me.” (The fact this is inconsistent might make it a little harder to deal with, though. I had a boss who was more consistent about this so it was easy to train myself to view his sorta-not-relevant-lectures as something he did for his own reassurance and shrug it off as part of his communication style.)

      I don’t know if this is a fixable situation for you long term. But shifting your perspective a little might help make it more bearable?

      1. Auntie Social*

        I would also time and date stamp whatever she gave me. So when she asks me for an update of something she gave me before lunch, I can say “Remember you gave it to me at 10:00 today, but so far I’ve done X.”

    4. Jules the 3rd*

      She’s your boss, so unless she’s being outright abusive (eg, yelling), your options are limited. Some possible methods:
      1) Be proactive on updates – tell her you’ll give a status of your projects X times / week (x usually = 1 or 2), then follow through. If she asks where a project is, say, ‘No big changes since the last status’ or ‘I’ll let you know in tomorrow’s status’.
      2) Practice not caring about her ‘snippiness’ . Deep breaths, pivot the conversation to next work topic or solution, focus on the work-relevant content, not the delivery method. This is hard and takes practice, I’m working on it with my new team lead right now.
      3) Dig into why you’re reacting so strongly. Listen to Alison’s interview on tone, etc (because the “you don’t need to be here” reaaaaaly depends on tone to be either brisk/cheerful or snippy). If your team does professional development, consider presenting it or asking for something like it to be presented.

      I’ve totally been told “you don’t need to be here” in a cheerful manner and walked on, happy to get out of Yet Another Meeting so that I can get on to work. But I can also understand how tone can make that snippy, so I don’t doubt you at all. But, if she’s short with a co-worker who has a history of over-stepping, is that really rude of her, or just setting a boundary again (and again and again)? If you can dig into why that bothered you some, it may help with not caring.

      In the end, you may not be compatible with her management style, but what you’re describing is pretty mild.

      1. irene adler*

        Just to add to #1: ask pointedly, “Are there any other projects I should be working on? Can you bring me up to speed on those, please?”

    5. Not So NewReader*

      I think Alison would say to get several of your coworkers together and go to HR. Have a couple examples lined up and be able to estimate the frequency of occurrence.

      Perhaps you can find a department to transfer to?

      Definitely set a time frame for how long you will tolerate this.

      1. Not A Manager*

        But what would they say to HR? “Our boss is sometimes snippy and she over-explains things?” The only thing I see here that would immediately impact productivity is her forgetting to assign projects.

      2. The Man, Becky Lynch*

        HR isn’t going to bother with complaints that sometimes a boss tells you to stop butting into conversations or is snapping on occasion.

        Unless she’s using things against you in reviews or abusive, you’re going to look like a high maintenance problem team rallying together and storming HR. Which will get you a few internal eyerolls and a “we’ll look into it” and their investigation will be nothing.

    6. Just Elle*

      “Other peoples feelings are not your your responsibility”
      Or whatever that quote is.
      I don’t think you can ‘fix’ her, but you can manage your own reaction and choose to let her rudeness/jerk behavior/mean comments roll off your back.

      Another tactic is ‘extreme ownership’. The point is to avoid putting her on the defensive by not accusing her of anything. Instead of “um, lady, you never even told me I needed to do this” you can try saying “Hm, I apologize but I don’t have any notes on that. Would you mind taking some time to help me get started?”
      I know what you’re thinking: you want her to know its not your fault. But you arguing that its not your fault isn’t going to change her mind anyway. Its just not the way her brain works. But sometimes taking responsibility switches their mindset into being kinder, “oh hey, now now, its not ALL your fault, maybe I could have done Y better.”
      It works like a less extreme version of this: If someone is yelling at you “THIS IS ALL YOUR FAULT” and you say “Yes, you’re right, its my fault, and I’m going to do xyz to make sure it doesn’t happen again.” The situation is automatically diffused. I mean seriously, what are they going to do? They can’t argue because you’re agreeing with them.

      1. LilySparrow*

        This is kind of the track I was going to suggest, but for my own sanity I avoid falsely taking on blame.

        Instead, I do — for want of a better word — the virtuous flipside of “forced teaming.” I place the problem (the unfinished project, the lack of instruction) outside of both of us, and act as if this external problem is something we are solving together.

        Boss: “You didn’t send this important document to the client!”
        You: (Thinking: What document? You never gave me any document for that client.) Out loud: “Oh, no! Which document is missing? How quickly can we finalize it?”

        Boss: “What is the status on Project X?”
        You: (Thinking: I asked you to give me access to Project X, but you never did.) Out loud: “Let me check my notes, I think it was on hold until the access got transferred from you to me. Do we have that set up yet?”

        The important part is to make the problem totally an objective external issue, not passing the blame onto another coworker. Passive-voice language helps with that.

        The downside of this approach is that it makes blamey bosses like you, because you help them save face. And having blamey bosses like you is a mixed blessing. But if you like the job for other reasons and are trying to ride out their tenure, advance past them, or transfer away from them, this kind of thing can help you get through the day.

        1. Just Elle*

          I like the idea of externalizing it. The extreme ownership concept comes in more for someone in a leadership roll, since it really IS all your fault at that point. But externalizing is probably a better option if you’re a report.

          I will say, its way way better to have a blamey boss like you than have them not like you. Because when something really does go wrong, you’ve built up a small reserve of goodwill. And because like it or not you still need to work with them and its exhausting to be at odds with your boss. And because your boss still does do your performance reviews, etc. Just don’t fall into the buddy-buddy trap where its you+boss against all coworkers. Thats not healthy either.

    7. ThisColumnMakesMeGratefulForMyBoss*

      Have you tried talking to her about it? Talking to her in the moment that it happens isn’t a good idea, but I would set up a meeting and have a discussion. Don’t be accusatory, but more “this is how you are coming across”. I realize this is not an easy task, but I believe in starting with the source. You can’t change any behavior unless it’s addressed. You are all adults and should be treated as such, and a manager being rude and condescending IMO is a worse offense than if it’s coming from a co-worker. If a conversation doesn’t change anything, or things get worse, escalate it.

    8. JustAskingForAFriend*

      SAME

      It has taken me a few YEARS to get to the point where I realize now that it is completely her issue and that for some reason, she thinks this is what managers “get to do” or “should do.” I think a lot of times it’s because they had a poor manager.

      It boils down to communication and what I’ve started doing is documenting everything. She’s not someone you can talk to, so that isn’t a valid option for me. I think it’s also a bit of control-freak when someone can’t hear about an error they made. Does she also not recognize your successes? Fuss when you don’t do something “her way” even though your way is also effective?

      What I can add is: Stay strong on what you are good at. Give yourself performance reviews so that way you are confident in what you’re doing well. I let horrible boss control my emotions too long and I lost a lot of confidence and now feel queasy any time something is wrong because I assume it’s my fault. And looking for a new job doesn’t hurt – maybe talk to a headhunter and be really specific about what you want. Since you’re currently getting a paycheck you have the ability to be choosy! Good luck :)

    9. Roses Angel*

      My boss is very similar. Everyone in my department double checks by emailing her to have everything in writing. Shes still a nightmare to deal with for other reasons.

    10. Clever Alias*

      If you love your job and your company, I think you owe it to yourself to try some of the suggestions here to see if you can make the situation tenable.

      But I also think its sometimes okay to admit defeat and realize Your Boss Is Not Going to Change and your sanity (and sometimes dignity) is not worth losing if you stick around. I’ve lost both of mine in a similar situation and am now trying to get our after 4+ years of trying.

    11. T*

      Yikes had a bad manager like this, there is no way to manage this type of boss because they shouldn’t be a manager. If you love the company move to another position and get as far from her as possible. My boss would do the same thing, she would “forget” to assign projects then blame me to the higher ups for not working on it. If you called her out it was a lose-lose situation, even if done calmly. I explained I couldn’t foresee which projects would be assigned to me, and if she gave me ample notice I would be able to give updates as needed. Nope, she was a total jackass, it was my fault no matter what. The company now has horrible Glassdoor reviews mostly from her. If your boss is engaged to the CEO run far, far away.

    12. LGC*

      Woof.

      So, I might be projecting, but there’s a couple of things going on:

      -At first, I was inclined to give your boss the benefit of the doubt with Joey (mostly because I have my own Joey). If you have an employee that regularly derails conversations, that’s…pretty frustrating! And while she didn’t handle it perfectly (to say the least), I can’t blame her for being a little frustrated.

      -But also, as you went on…it sounds like your boss is failing at her job. More accurately, there’s a lot of things that are going on:
      + She seems like she’s not delegating properly.
      + Obviously, she’s a bit mercurial, to say the least (I’ll admit I have that tendency myself and I’m working on reining it in).
      + And the biggest issue is that she isn’t able to admit where she’s made a mistake.
      + And also, this is where I’m projecting, but she might be swamped herself!

      Is this worth leaving the team/job over? Perhaps, especially since it sounds like you’re thinking about leaving. But it sounds like you don’t want to leave, and it doesn’t sound like her behavior is especially egregious (as in, she’s not yelling at you). So – as someone so artfully put it in a post a couple of days ago – Shamu her. Don’t react to her terrible behavior, but do react positively to her good behavior. If she drops the ball on something, ask for clarification, not a correction.

  2. groot*

    I have a question about managing in a matrix organisation.

    I’m responsible for a team of IT staff, which means hiring, firing,
    granting vacation, general management and development of their
    abilities. I am however not responsible for assigning day-to-day tasks
    or making sure they are completed in a timely fashion.

    I would like to start regular one-on-ones as I appreciate they are
    quite helpful in giving team members a chance to get my full attention
    regularly as well as checking in how their personal development is
    progressing.
    I’m however kind of stuck how to go about it time- and content-wise. A
    half hour per week per report seems overkill, I’m simply worried
    there wouldn’t be that much to talk about and if we cancel the
    meetings regularly for lack of topics, they might seem pointless. On the
    other hand, if I go with something like once per month, it will be more
    difficult to get into a routine and I’ll probably also lose out on a
    good chunk of the relationship-building effect.
    On the content side, I’m not sure which topics would be best to have a meaningful meeting.

    Do you have some advice on how to make one-on-ones an effective
    managing tool under these circumstances?

    Thanks!

    1. Adminx2*

      Ask them what they feel would be most useful and empowering? Set up a series of start off meetings to get baselines and their input on cadence. Or split the difference with an hour every other week?

    2. ErgoBun*

      I have the exact same role as you. We are an agile shop and therefore the agile team determines the work of my direct reports, not me.

      I have one-on-ones with my team every other week. The length of time is dependent on the person: 30 minutes for those of my staff who are more straightforward, 45 minutes for those who tend to want to talk things through more. On the off weeks, I schedule a department meeting so we can have group conversations about our type of work, to be sure we’re all implementing our work in the same way on our separate agile teams.

      For the most part, I let my reports set the agenda of our one-on-ones. One of them sets a very detailed agenda, and the others tend to come with bullet points to talk about in the moment. We review how their agile projects are going from their perspectives, if they need anything manager-wise from me, and if I have anything to communicate from upper management.

      Sometimes there isn’t much to talk about. Sometimes they’re 5-10 minutes and we talk about TV for most of it. Sometimes we’re having in-depth discussions about office issues and development for an hour. It’s OK! Like you said, these are mostly for relationship development and giving your team unfettered individual access to you. It’s fine to let these go with the flow.

      2. groot*

        Thanks, that’s helpful!

        Reading your reply, I’m noticing that my question partly stems from the fact that my team is a little stumped at the moment what these meetings will be used for (my company isn’t big on management), whereas I know why I want them to happen. I guess I’ll give them some pointers which topics they could bring to the meeting, but in the meeting I’ll go “with the flow”.

        1. Darren*

          If your team isn’t sure about what things to talk about I would start by being a bit more active in setting the agenda then once you’ve had a few start transitioning the agenda to them (you’ll put on a topic or two, and they’ll put on the bulk) with looking to eventually phase out you needing to set the agenda at all.

    3. Anonymous Educator*

      Can you consider that some of your team members may not communicate most efficiently via one-on-one half-hour meetings? You just need to know what’s going on and give them a chance to communicate with you. Maybe some (not all) of your team might prefer to communicate via email or Slack or some other method? I do not have regularly scheduled one-on-one meetings with my boss, but we communicate quite often, whether it’s impromptu conversations (which can be 30 seconds or 20 minutes) or via quick email messages.

      The key is communication, not necessarily meetings. Sometimes meetings are necessary, but they shouldn’t necessarily be the default.

      1. groot*

        That’s a good point. Part of the reason I’m setting these up is that it can be hard to get a moment of my time. I don’t want them to feel like they have an absentee manager and never get a chance to talk about important topics.

        1. Anonymous Educator*

          Well, not all of them will want primary communications to be via email, but many of them might prefer it. Good to get a sense from them on how they want to communicate with you regularly (you can still have in-person one-on-ones less frequently with those who prefer electronic communication).

        2. prussian blue*

          what if you set up regular ‘office hours’ for a block of your time?

          in my workflow, I have a half hour check in with my manager and I send her a weekly list of working on/just completed/challenge tasks so she knows what’s on my plate, even if check in gets cancelled.

      2. writerson*

        When I was on matrixed team and my poor manager had 20+ reports, he asked everyone to send him a “Friday Five” email. 5 things you accomplished in the past week, 5 things you were planning to work on in the next week, and then anything you needed his help/intervention/escalation for. He was very good about acknowledging/responding to these and would often instant message or make a quick call to talk things through, as needed.

        We each had formal 30-minute one-on-ones only monthly, but these impromptu conversations in between kept us all aware of what was going on, and I knew I could count on him if I needed something.

    4. Just Elle*

      We have a half hour meeting weekly, but the reportee is free to cancel if there’s nothing to discuss, and they do get cancelled about half the time. They don’t feel meaningless though! I appreciate not having my time wasted to stare at each other, and I appreciate having a standing time to bring up issues if I need to instead of making a big deal of finding time on their calendar.

    5. Coffee Bean*

      1-on-1 are great! It is awesome you want to start that up.

      30 min isn’t that long. For content you can create a loose schedule:
      1. Connect on how their projects are going. Are they on schedule? A question that an old manager used to ask me a lot that I really appreciated was “What can I do to remove roadblocks that are in your way?” That question really got me to think about the problems, instead of just giving the immediate “project is good” answer. Do they have any generic “how do I do this” questions? etc.
      2. What is in their pipeline for the next week/two weeks until you guys meet again?
      3. Let them know ahead of time that they can bring things to the meeting they want to talk about, for any topic. General work performance, Sally always heats up tuna in the microwave and screams to her husband about llamas all day, whatever, but the one on ones can be a two way street that you don’t need to plan everything for.
      4. For any remainder of the time you guys can catch up. See how the employee is doing and just chat, this will help build report between you two. Plus, if they failed to mention something that was pestering them yet they may be more inclined to bring it up now as you are showing them you are there to listen and not to just rush them out the door (but this could take time to build trust).

    7. A tester, not a developer*

      We have pretty much the same set up as ErgoBun describes. Staff who’ve come in from other companies seem to find it to be pretty standard.

    8. OperaArt*

      I work in a matrix organization, too. My administrative manager, equivalent to your role, has 1-on-1 meetings once a month. We each set our own agendas. Once a month works for my group because we have all been here for years (or decades in most cases).
      In your situation, I’d probably want to have meetings every two weeks initially, and then figure out what works best for each person.

    9. KeyboardJockey*

      Same position; I run 1-1s similarly to how ErgoBun describes. To add to this, my org is entirely remote and none of my team is even in my same state. I find it helps to remember that 1-1s are very much *not status meetings*: they’re relationship-building meetings. The former can be done on Slack. The latter really can’t be unless you’re a certain kind of person.

      Why is that important? Well, partly because you can’t know when something’s going wrong or someone is burned out unless you know what normal looks like for that person. You might feel like you’ve got nothing to talk about in 1-1s because you don’t have project work in common, but you’re building an important picture of how this person deals with stress, what they need from their coworkers, how they like to contribute to meetings, etc. One person’s dramatic meltdown is another’s sudden inability to be on time for meetings. You have to be able to recognize that.

      Some ways I do this:
      – I’ll make myself notes about things that the employee has mentioned being involved in outside of work, for instance, and spend the first ~5 minutes chit-chatting about those things.

      – I ask a _ton_ of questions, particularly when we’re talking about project work and they’re brief on details: “Oh, I haven’t used Express before; how did you choose it as a framework? How are you feeling about this partner meeting coming up? You haven’t been paired with this PM before; how’s working with her been?”

      – I make it a point to set up quick quarterly chats with the person’s coworkers to get their perspectives on how working with the person day-to-day is (this is encouraged at my organization, so it’s not weird to do, but I can see how you’d want to make sure you approach that the right way in some orgs that don’t emphasize feedback).

      1. groot*

        These are helpful, thanks! I’ve noticed already that there can be things going wrong without the employee telling you about it – because they think it’s not important or that they should cope or that you can’t help. I’m definitely noticing that relationships have become much more important, also for the last part you mentioned, to get outside feedback.

    10. LCS*

      I do a weekly half-hour forum with my full team (open agenda, anyone can – and does – add items) and then 2x monthly half-hour sessions individually. Agenda for individual sessions is
      – Admin updates – all training, safety requirements, etc. up to date? Lots of times this is an automatic 1 minute check-mark but it keeps us honest about not cancelling too frequently. And I like these meetings to happen regularly because then everyone gets used to me having a lot of quick, closed-door 1:1’s – that way if I need to deliver some constructive feedback it doesn’t feel like a weird anomaly “getting called to the principal’s office” thing. It’s just part of the regular routine.
      – Update on current & upcoming major projects
      – What can I make better for them / explain / remove roadblocks etc.
      – Give them a head’s up on anything I know is coming down the pipeline that may impact their job, with a chance to discuss and provide broader context on what we can expect and how we may need to react.

      And of course some time in there for personal connection – it’s rarely a 100% business-focused discussion.

    11. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

      I’m in the position that your direct reports are in. I have a manager but day-to-day I’m part of a ‘scrum’ team working on a particular project that my manager isn’t directly involved in.
      We have a monthly one-to-one for an hour or so; I would prefer half an hour ‘every other week’ but he’s very busy and I don’t think those meetings would usually happen (probably end up being cancelled).
      As we’re doing Scrum the updates of what I’m working on day-to-day are covered in stand ups, reviews etc so the one to ones with my manager are more to talk about “bigger picture” topics like other things going on in the company, how the role is going (I’m relatively new — almost a year), HR-type issues, etc.
      My manager doesn’t go into the meeting with particular “topics” unless he has something specific to bring up — it’s mostly led by me. Perhaps you could consider having a more ‘open ended’ agenda as you may (or may not!) be surprised at things your reports bring up that for whatever reason they don’t talk about to their “matrix” supervisor.

    12. Emily K*

      I have a similar management charge with someone who is a subject matter expert in an area totally apart from my own work and skillset.

      She sends me a list every Monday with an overview of what she’s working on and how she’s prioritizing things, any questions or requests she has for me, and notes about things like upcoming vacation or medical appointments, conferences she’s interested in, etc. We have a standing meeting blocked off on Monday afternoons, and when she has meatier questions or discussion items, we use time, but I’d say 3/4 weeks we skip the meeting because there’s nothing we need to discuss. I just answer any quick questions in response to her email.

      It’s helpful to keep it blocked on our calendars every week even if we don’t use it very often, so that we’re making a conscious decision to skip it when it’s not needed, rather than just letting time slip by without realizing we haven’t met in a while.

      I also once asked her to track how she was spending her time for a couple of weeks and share it with me so I could get a sense for how the items on her project lists translated into time commitments filling her plate, which helps me to better manage her workload and set realistic deadlines despite not really understanding her work beyond a superficial level – I at least know how long things should take.

  3. Small but Fierce*

    TLDR: Most sources say that is considered job hopping if you have multiple stints of less than 2 years on your resume, but exceptions can be made for young professionals still figuring their career path out. At what point is it job hopping when you’re early (<7 years) in your career? Also, how badly is job hopping perceived when there is clear career and/or salary progression?

    Context: I graduated from undergrad in 2015, and here is what my chronological resume looks like:

    Fortune 500 company, full-time paid Teapot Intern* – 8 months
    Small company, Teapot and Kettle Coordinator – 1 year and 9 months
    Fortune 100 company, two roles (detailed below) – 1 year and 6 months (ongoing)
    – Subsidiary, Teapot Specialist – 10 months (20% raise)
    – Parent company, Equestrian Specialist – 8 months (5% raise, completely different function, started working from home 4 months in due to family’s cross-country move)

    *I keep my internship as real experience because the company is one of the highly desired employers (comparable to Google), but I understand that it shouldn’t count as a hop since it wasn’t permanent.

    While I’ve been underutilized and isolated in my current job, I’m concerned that I’m already setting a precedent for job hopping. It hasn’t hindered me so far as I have good reasons for all of my moves that I clearly explain in my cover letters.

    Would it mean terrible things for my resume if I were to jump again this soon? I have an interview for a promotion with a different Fortune 100 company that my spouse works at. I would be a Kettle Manager (external title) / Senior Kettle Analyst (internal title); it comes with a ~25% raise, off Fridays twice a month with my spouse, and face-to-face interaction. I’m not miserable enough that I’m desperate to leave, so I’m wondering if I’d be better off turning a potential offer down if it meant staying to give myself more longevity with my current company. What are your thoughts?

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      I so feel you on this. I’m determined not to cripple my career by staying at under-performing, under-paying jobs for two years just to avoid the stigma of “job hopping” – as if that is the biggest failure a resume can have. If you’re getting good job offers than the fear of job hopping must be over-rated. I think as long as you have longer stints mixed in, you are okay to leave a few jobs quicker. My current record is 2 years, 6 years, and probably 1.5 years – as long as my next job is at least 3 or 4 years, I feel like that’s fine.

    2. Beehoppy*

      I think it’s becoming more acceptable among younger people and in different industries. I think as long as you think can commit to staying at this new place for at least 3 years you should be fine.

    3. OtterB*

      I don’t see any benefit to staying in a job where you are underutilized. You should plan on staying with the new company longer, if at all possible, but the change now seems easily explainable in terms of wanting to get back to the Kettle and Teapot area.

    4. Not at all*

      Based on what you’ve listed, I don’t view you as a job hopper. 8 months is actually plenty of time for an internship, most people I know did summer internships that were 2-3 months in length. You were at Small Company for almost 2 years and have 2 titles at Fortune 100 company, also been there almost 2 years. I don’t think you’re jumping too soon especially since you said you would be leaving for a promotion.

      If it was more lateral, I would be asking “What is making you leave Equestrian Specialist role?”but it would be obvious to me that you are applying for this role to move up (but your interviewer might still ask this).

    5. Olive Hornby*

      This may be one of those “know your industry” things, but I wouldn’t consider this job-hopping. You’ve stayed in each role more than a year (except for the internship, of course), and it looks like each role has been of increasing seniority. To me, that suggests that you’re skilled and ambitious, not flighty or difficult to work with, which is the stereotype about job-hoppers.

      1. Auburn*

        This. If I’m interviewing someone who has moved a lot I am just trying to determine if they were being pulled towards better more interesting opportunities vs. being pushed out because they are hard to get along with or never satisfied or something. If it’s the former, it does make me think that I may have to work a little harder than usual to keep them growing and interested in whatever role they are getting hired for. So if I feel like it’s a job that isn’t likely to have those kinds of opportunities that may be a factor in a decision. But basically, if you have a narrative that makes sense to go along with all the moves, that’s what I would care about.

    6. Dawn*

      That doesn’t read as job-hopping to me; look at how it speaks to a story of your career progression. You went from an Intern to a small company to a Fortune 100 company. That makes complete sense in the overall timeline of your career.

      2 years is a completely reasonable time to look for a new job, and look at how the job you’re interviewing for would fit into your overall career story: it’s a raise, it’s a senior/manager title, and you’re looking into it because you were isolated and underutilized.

      “Job Hopping” is when someone has a brand new job every six months. What I get from what you’re written is normal career progression.

      1. WinethetimeKat*

        Watching all the comments closely in a job where what I am doing is not what was described. I have worked for three people in a row who eliminated the position and people are holding that against me. So unhappy

      2. Jules the 3rd*

        Enh, they’re still a little short to me (not the internship, but 3 jobs under 2 years), but it does depend on the industry and market.

        SbF, I’d say you aren’t going to trigger ‘job hopping’ vibes yet, but your next stop needs to be more than 3 years. So research it VERY carefully before you jump – is the industry growing? Is the area / tech the new position is in hot / new or fading? Fortune 100s means it’s probably large enough to have good HR, and your wife can tell you about that, but individual managers are going to make / break your experience there. If your wife has a good network, maybe she can look for someone she knows who knows the hiring manager, and ask what they’re like.

        1. Small but Fierce (OP)*

          Feel free to correct me, but I thought internal moves weren’t necessarily considered separate jobs since they’re with the same employer? If you count them as separate, it was 3 jobs and 2 employers in 3 years.

          1. Not in US*

            I would look at the two roles in the one company as one job in terms of “job hopping” not two jobs. So you were at the first for a year and 9 months and the second for a year and 6 months. As long as you are taking a promotion to go to a different company – you’re fine. I also think it can be explained if you’re working from home and found that’s not for you.

            I would say you need to be with the next company for at least a full 2 years (ideally 3) and only switch jobs within it if it’s a promotion or there’s a restructure – aka no lateral moves if possible (toxic bosses, etc. change the mix).

    7. fposte*

      Nah, you’re fine (though you’re listing it here in a way that put the worst possible face on it–it took me a minute to figure out how benign it really was!). You have nearly two years at your first employer and nearly two years at your second, and you’re leaving for a good opportunity. Unless you’re in one of those Silicon Valley things where you’re expected to move every year you should probably aim to stay more like 3 years at the new job to demonstrate that you can get in deeper with a position, but you probably are doing that anyway.

    8. Natalie*

      Couple of things – what exactly counts as “job hopping” depends heavily on industry, and it’s also a bit of a”know it when I see it” thing. So I wouldn’t try and target any kind of hard and fast rule. If you left 4 jobs in a row at exactly the 2 year mark, that could also look kind of “job hoppy”. And yes, context matters. Your internship doesn’t “count” at all for job hopping because internships are time limited by design. Salary progression shouldn’t be on your resume, but career progression will be and that does change the impression quite a bit. Think about your resume as a story – a brief stint in a different division that didn’t work out is a logical part of the story. If every job you had was in a different industry and different function, that would be telling a quite different story.

      And, on a more philosophical level – let your needs and desires drive your career to the extent you can. Trying to read tea leaves of how your resume is going to look to an unknown employer at an unknown point in the future is an exercise in futility. If your resume gives the impression of someone who’s driven and wants to move up, yes, that will turn off some companies that expect people to stay for years before getting more responsibility. But that’s okay – the point isn’t to get chosen by every single job, it’s to get chosen by the places you actually want to work.

    9. Tigger*

      I see job hopping as switching fields many times/ having many lateral moves instead of promotions. From what you listed above all your moves have been for promotions so you don’t have to worry. Reasonable people won’t hold that against you. Also you have a cross country move in there so of course you will change companies because of that fact.

      You will be fine. Congrats :)

    10. Antilles*

      This seems all perfectly fine.
      1.) The internship is completely fine, since most people understand that internships are not intended to be permanent roles and they often have specific terms of work (similar to temporary or contract workers).
      2.) Besides that, you’ve worked for two companies in 3.5 years – perfectly fine. Moving around within the same company is rarely notable to interviewers, as companies change titles and roles all the time.

    11. Rose Tyler*

      I would keep pursuing the job you’re interested in because it seems like quite a nice bump in salary and perks, but I’d be really sure before accepting an offer I wanted to stay for at least a couple years. Your resume does verge on job hopping to me, not to the extent that I wouldn’t move you forward in a process if you met the qualifications, but I’d be sure to ask you some pretty specific questions about how the role I was hiring for fit your planned career path, or even point-blank ask what was behind the shorter stints at previous companies (so I’d have those answers prepared in your current interview process). If you get this job and then stay for less than 2 years again then I think you could start raising questions before even getting to interview stage. Just my opinion, and good luck!

    12. CatCat*

      I don’t think it’s job hopping if you are progressing up. Like if you had a bunch of lateral moves in a short time span, that might raise a concern to ask about (not necessarily take someone out of the running), but if you’re moving into higher roles, that’s not the same thing.

      1. Small but Fierce (OP)*

        Thank you all for your feedback! These comments are putting me at ease about pursuing this opportunity. Just some additional context in response:

        We moved across the country so that my husband could take a job with the company that he has been with his whole career. He has mentioned the desire to change companies or apply for a different role in his current company in the next couple of years, which could moving us to another state again. I don’t think I can necessarily commit to 3+ years as a result, so this could potentially be a shorter stay for me again. At least my current role has the flexibility to allow me to move if needed.

        I noted the salary progression for the readers’ benefit, but do not list it on my resume.

        Also, I appreciate the comments that said that I presented my history in a negative context and that I cannot predict the future. I’m very prone to anxiety and over-analyze everything, so I know that is something I need to work on. I’m glad my work history is not as bad as my brain interprets it.

        1. Not A Manager*

          You mention that you “clearly explain” the reasons for “all of your moves” in your cover letter. You might ask someone to take a look at that to be sure that you’re not magnifying it or sounding defensive. When I look at your job history, I see a prestigious internship and two employment stints of over a year, with clear growth and progression in your title changes. You CAN characterize your recent job as two separate ones, but do you have to?

          1. Small but Fierce (OP)*

            That’s a valid point! I usually run my cover letter by a couple of people before sending them. I also use my cover letters to demonstrate how my accomplishments led to the changes; I don’t really draw attention to the short duration, but try to highlight what I accomplished during that time.

            I currently characterize my “two job, one company” situation like this: When I joined Fortune 100 company, I quickly became the most senior member on my last team when we experienced unprecedented turnover (unsaid: due to toxic grand-boss). Within months of starting, I functioned as the team lead by assigning the work that came into our shared inbox, leading team meetings, and tracking all of our team’s projects to ensure we met our deliverables. When my manager transferred to corporate (unsaid: to escape toxic grand-boss), she asked me to join her due to my work performance in those difficult circumstances. She also knew it would give me more experience in “equestrian” work, which was a minor facet of my prior role that I wanted to develop.

            1. Just Elle*

              While this storyline is good, especially to discuss during an interview, it seems quite wordy for a cover letter. Most HR people only spend about 10-15 seconds looking at cover letters, and generally speaking they should not be a repeat of your resume. All those things you said should be bullet points on your resume.
              Aka, resume:
              -functioned as the team lead by assigning the work that came into our shared inbox, leading team meetings, and tracking all of our team’s projects to ensure we met our deliverables.
              -asked to join prior boss in new corporate role in recognition of my work performance in those difficult circumstances

              Then, on my cover letter, I’d say something like.
              “I excel in roles that demand adaptability and quick learning. In a previous job, I quickly became the most senior member on my team when we experienced unprecedented turnover. Within months of starting, I was given the responsibility of interim team lead, and after 3 months the company opted to allow me to continue in that capacity due to excellent performance.”

              1. Small but Fierce (OP)*

                Thank you for the feedback! I agree that my cover letters tend to be too long. When you say ” after 3 months the company opted to allow me to continue in that capacity due to excellent performance,” is that an accurate explanation when I’m currently in a different team, function, and (technically) organization?

                1. Just Elle*

                  I think that may have just been my lack of understanding of the situation. I assumed you maintained that job for a few months in an official capacity before the promotion. You could change it to “after 3 months the company offered me a position with increased responsibility, and again I had to pick up xyz quickly to be successful.”

                  The point is, on the resume anyway, for each bullet point to include what you did, and a measure of success. So ‘led a team’ the measure of success is ‘promoted’ or ‘even though it was supposed to be temporary they made you permanent team lead’ or whatever it is. Even better than your boss having a good opinion of you is hard metrics, like ‘responsible for a $1m project that came in on time, on budget” etc.

                  And then the point of the cover letter is specifically to discuss soft skills / personality traits not demonstrated on your resume – no repeats if possible.

          2. Just Elle*

            Yeah, I agree with this advice. If they’re worried about it they’ll ask.

            Also, I do keep separate jobs at the same company together, eg:
            Sea Lion Training Inc. 2010-2015
            Head sea lion feeder, 2012-2015
            -Bullet points
            Sea lion tank cleaner, 2010-2012
            -Bullet points

            No one will think internal promotions are job hopping.

            1. Small but Fierce (OP)*

              Perfect, that is what I currently do. I essentially mimic the new LinkedIn format for multiple jobs in the same company.

        2. Gerald*

          Yes, I think fposte’s comment is valid, and I have dealt with this by writing up shorter time periods more generically:
          Fortune 100 company [2017-current (or 2019)] – Teapot Specialist and Equestrian Specialist
          Small company [2015-2017] – Teapot and Kettle Coordinator
          Fortune 500 company [Jan-Aug 2014] – Teapot Intern

          I think people have more sympathy if you explain that you are moving for family reasons yet you are also working to have your own independent career. If you are interviewing at your spouse’s workplace then I would mention it as that company should have sympathy! I think it’s quite acceptable to move around these days, although expect that they might ask during the interview and I think it’s even more important to have solid references.

          I was told years ago that in my field it takes about 2 years to become competent, so anything less than that time is not an ideal investment for companies. If you have skills which allow you to feel competent right from the start, then companies won’t mind if you stay less time. I have started a new job in the past year and admit that I will probably only start to be competent after a year, so don’t plan on going elsewhere for at least 3 years because I will cause problems if I leave before then (the people are nice and would be happy for me, but it’s a good employer and I want to do well for them).

        3. Overeducated*

          I think it would be a little bit crazy to turn down a 25% raise and every other Friday off for the worry that you’ll be perceived as job-hopping for your next move. What about the worry that if you don’t take the job, by turning down that 25% bump now, your future jobs won’t build on that salary either? There’s a concrete thing you’d be missing out on, out of concern for a perception that may not even be an issue!

          On the other hand, if you do need the flexibility for full time remote work because you anticipate another upcoming move, that actually is a concrete reason to stay. So I’d weigh those specific factors against each other, but don’t just stay out of fear.

    13. Just Elle*

      I have a very similar resume and am an engineer. I do get questions from interviewers about why I’m looking to change again ‘so soon’, but all of their fears seem to be completely alleviated as soon as I show good reasons for leaving each. So I don’t think its enough to prevent you from getting the interview, just enough to make people worried about it and require explanation.

      In general I think of this as the balance:
      -at least one job every 2-3 should be a 3 year stint with increasing responsibility if possible. This shows that you can/will stick it out for the right company, and that there are companies in the world who actually liked and valued you as an employee (aka you weren’t forced to go to a different company for a promotion)
      -if I’m in a job where I’m not actually adding to my resume, then its time to leave even if time isnt up. Experience counts more than time.
      -if I have a company thats willing to hire me for a more senior roll and more money and culturally I’m 90% sure I’ll be a great fit.. I’d jump ship and then make my 3 year stint there.

      1. mliz*

        It makes me wonder, what about if you have gone as far up as you can without entering people management roles? (Which is something I don’t want, ever, because I’d be terrible at it.)

        1. Just Elle*

          I think that’s completely reasonable. As an engineer I know tonssss of people who would like to spend the rest of their life being individual contributors and would be horrified by people management. But you can still show increasing level of expertise/responsibility. For example, your resume progress from:
          -Assist others in teapot design
          -Independently design teapot lids
          -Responsible for overall teapot design
          -Owned final approval for teapot design
          -Owned entire teapot and coffee mug design library

          The goal isn’t to show ‘title increases’ its to show that your company continues to trust you with more and more things.

    14. Hi*

      Why would you NOT take a job with a significant increase and perks? When I review resumes “job hopping” to me is 3-4 months here, empty a few months, 6 months here, a gap, 3 months here. Obviously someone who quits and get fired all the time. Being gainfully employed since graduation 4 years ago is different.

    15. Hids*

      I’m in a similar situation. I graduated in 2013, but didn’t get a full-time job in my field until 2015. I stayed there for 1.5 years, when I left for another company in my field, but doing a different job. (My first was Not For Me.) I was laid off after 6 months, changed fields but continued to do similar work day-to-day, and have been at my current job for nearly two years—but for the last 8 months I’ve been in a role I wasn’t hired for. I recently switched to a role better for me, but I’d already started looking elsewhere before I learned I’d be moving, and now I have an offer for more money, more responsibility, and better benefits at a growing company where I’d be doing similar stuff. I worry about looking flighty, but I know I’ll be underutilized if I stay, and the move would be a better opportunity.

      There is a cohesive thread throughout—I started in a totally administrative role in fine art, moved to something more creative (writing-focused) within the industry, moved to a retail company where writing was a core piece of my job, and am now planning to leave for another retail company where I would be a straight copywriter. So… it all makes sense. But the bouncing around still concerns me.

      IDK if this helps, but I think if the move will be better for you, and you’re confident you’ll stick it out, it is worth it.

    16. Anoncersize*

      One thing is to be sure and format your promotions so they do not look like moving jobs. Your main header should be Parent company current role 3 years with the other roles and dates clearly outlined below them.

      Alsison has some posts on this

    17. MoopySwarpet*

      I think you should do the interview, get the offer, and then decide if it’s worth the “risk” of looking like a job hopper. The potential of the new position sounds to me like it would by far outweigh the risk of looking like you’ve job hopped. I think especially when one was an internal move and one was an internship.

      As a person who is heavily involved with our hiring process (super small company, old school owners), at this point in your resume, the general lack of overall experience would probably be “worse” than the short term stays. Meaning, if you had one teapot job for 3 years vs 2 teapot jobs totaling 3 years, I don’t think we’d treat that experience very differently.

      When I’m looking through resumes, I know the owners are not going to want to interview someone who has 6 short term jobs as much as they would want to interview someone who had 2 longer term jobs unless they hit most of the requirements.

      I think in your situation, though, I’d definitely go for the new job and try to stick that one out for a longer amount of time. I think it’s normal to take a few jobs before you find a good fit when you’re starting out for a variety of reasons that you can explain in the interview.

    18. Emily K*

      Echoing everyone else – I’ve hired for entry- and mid-level roles a few times. This is a pretty typical resume of a strong candidate with your level of experience.

      Not all employers may feel this way, but I hire in a high cost of living area, and I know that you have to get a couple rungs above entry level before you can even afford to live without roommates in this town. When I see people leaving less than two years in but it’s entry-level or within one-two rungs above entry-level, and they’re moving up a rung when they change jobs, I don’t think, “This person is flighty,” I think, “This person is tired of someone else’s dishes being in their sink and wants to earn more than $37,000 a year in one of the most expensive cities in the country.”

      If I’m hiring for a job that doesn’t pay great, it’s going to be pretty entry-level with a pretty quick onboarding time, and I usually expect something closer to 12-18 months tenure because I know people need to jump at any chance they can get to make better wages.

      Mid-level jobs pay better and take longer to master, so once you reach a project/program manager level I expect at least 2-3 years tenure as a general rule. At a senior level my company expects people to stay 3-5 years minimum.

      One short stay is sort of given as a freebie at any level, but when you’re being hired to do work that takes years to really come to fruition, it’s troubling if you have a pattern of leaving jobs before you have time to see a project all the way through and accomplish anything. But that means I’m only looking at whether your tenure in each past job was appropriate to the level of that job–not whether your tenure at your entry-level job was enough for a mid-level job, or your mid-level tenure was enough for a senior job.

    19. Qwerty*

      Would you want to stay at this new job for a few years? That should be your bar with the next couple jobs. Obviously life happens, like with your cross-country move, but having two shorter stints at the start of your career will be barely noticed if they are balanced out by one long job (5-7yr) or two medium (3-4yr). The two short stints probably won’t be much of a problem getting your next job, but how long you stay there will play a larger part in getting the job after that.

      The idea is that if you get to three jobs that are 1.5-2yrs (I’m not counting the internship), it can start to look like a pattern. Once you get that kind of pattern, you might get stuck in a cycle where employers think that you’ll leave in a year or two, so they only put you on projects that are shorter term or where they won’t be left in a rut if you leave, which of course can cause people to leave.

      Good luck with this interview! It sounds like a great promotion and I hope it is a place that you will be happy at!

      *Moving to a different team within the same company typically isn’t considered when evaluating job-hopping risk. Half the time that just due to re-orgs anyway and the employee doesn’t have much say in which team they get moved to.

    20. SavannahMiranda*

      You’ve been with your current company for 2 years and 2 months (albeit in 2 roles)?

      And you’re wondering if you should leave for a 25% raise now, versus a theoretical raise, or theoretical pats on the head for not leaving, or theoretical future opportunities?

      Take the interview! If you get an offer, you have a bird in the hand. Worth more than any theories in the bush.

      There are times to consider whether you’re being overactive in job moves, but I see people fret far too much about the dreaded moniker of ‘job hopper.’

      When a resume shows clear progression upwards, within a clear career path, with increasing responsibilities and titles, it’s not job hopping!

      Job hopping is when a person is all over the place, with disparate roles and titles, and no clear path or trajectory. Retail manager, to accounting assistant, to copywriter. That kind of thing.

      No. Your resume clearly shows what you want and where you’re going. And this potential role will move you BACK into the path you were previously on, so it’s shows a strength.

      Please! Take advantage of a 25% raise, a move back into the path you prefer, and face-to-face interactions!

      When someone wants to give you 25% more a year to get back on track with the career you prefer, you take it. You don’t turn the opportunity down out of theory.

      1. SavannahMiranda*

        By the way, I’ve moved 3 times in 6 years – so an average of 2 years per job.

        I’ve gained $30k in salary over those three moves – an average of $10k per job.

        Neither of the first two jobs would have promoted me to where I am now, or given me a $30k raise in the process.

        When it’s time to go, you go. And when a job pays 25% more, has working conditions you prefer, hews more closely to the career path you prefer to be on, and you have a strong resume of growth to growth, you throw your hat in the ring.

        As my first career mentor said – you get a yes, so that the no is up to you. (Put yourself in a position to get their yes, and only then do you decide whether your answer is a yes or a no.)

    21. Database Developer Dude*

      I transitioned away from the active duty Army in 2001…I’d been in for twelve and a half years since then. In the 18 years since then, I’ve had 10 employers, and don’t think until my latest I’ve ever made two years with any of them.

      I had one where I was technically with the company for three years, but almost a year and a half of that was a deployment with the Army Reserve, so that doesn’t count.

      I’m still getting nibbles, so I think as long as you’ve got a solid growth path on your resume, you’re fine.

  4. hermit crab*

    I started a new job a few months ago, and part of my role is to keep up to date on news, research, and policy developments in a particular area. I love this. But my question is:

    I need a system for tracking and saving all the stuff I review. Any suggestions? I would love some sort of centralized solution for categorizing and keeping notes on things.

    Currently everything is spread out across a combination of email folders, Pocket, Zotero, and my very falliable human memory. It’s a wide variety of formats – news articles, government reports, journal articles, press releases, online datasets, webinar recordings, etc. I’ve gone the Massive Clunky Spreadsheet route in the past and it always results in the process taking over the substance. This time around, I would love something that can live on or be synched up with Sharepoint or similar.

    I know there are lots of librarian/information management types around here so I’m hoping you have lots of recommendations. Thanks in advance!

    1. Dawn*

      Do you have Microsoft One Note? I used it a lot when I was a Research Analyst and it was fantastic for keeping things organized.

      1. hermit crab*

        How did you use it, exactly? I don’t have a good sense of its capabilities other than just, like, a digital version of a physical notebook.

        1. foolofgrace*

          I second One Note. In a sense it IS a digital version of a physical notebook, but you can store all kinds of data– websites, articles, citations, etc. Searchability is awesome. It helps to think of it as a college ruled theme book with tab dividers. If you read the intro stuff that pops up the first time you use it, you’ll get a sense of how versatile it can be.

          However, do back up your notebook every week. It used to occasionally crash and although it’s very stable now I would still make backups.

        1. School Inclusion Specialist*

          I’ve used both Evernote and OneNote and I currently use One Note
          I download articles and attach them to the notes. I love the to-do list feature. So I can have an article, related notes, and a follow-up list.

          1. Frances*

            Do you find you the search function to be robust enough? My evernote account currently has 2000+ notes in several notebooks, so without the tagging feature I’d be lost!

        2. Clever Name*

          I used Evernote for quite a while but I dropped it when they made folks pay for the functionality that had previously been free. I liked it so much I would have switched to the pay version, but I realized that the OneNote app for my phone did exactly the same thing and was free. I heavily use OneNote both at home and at Work.

    2. Mockingjay*

      SharePoint has an Announcement web part. We use it to post news articles, team announcements, etc. It’s cumulative, so you can scroll down through prior articles.

      SP also has all kinds of lists available. I use the lists for frequently referenced items.

      You can also post Quick Links on SharePoint, so users can click and go to another website – say a news org, or a directory within your org. We have a LOT of these. Very easy to use.

      These features should be out-of-the box SP features, that just require enabling and a little configuration by your IT staff.

    3. LadyofLasers*

      If they’re mostly in PDF form, Mendeley is fantastic for organizing and searching through references

      1. hermit crab*

        That’s where I’m running into issues. I like Zotero for citation management and wrangling large collections of actual files. But maybe half of my stuff doesn’t lend itself well to that format – they’re online news articles and websites that I want to bookmark, categorize, and make notes on. Is Mendeley useful for that?

        1. AnonyNurse*

          I love Mendeley. Even for links. It’s web based. You can access even PDFs anywhere. I occasionally get asked to do a little lit review for a colleague and I can just dump everything I find into a folder within Mendeley that I can then “share” with the person. No huge emails with lots of attachments that are then cluttering my computer.

          I would also encourage you to download/screenshot/turn to PDF any web-based articles that you really like or need. Cause things disappear.

          I use my personal email account for Mendeley so I never lose access to the things I find.

        2. MoopySwarpet*

          I think news articles and websites could be utilized as pdfs by using the print to pdf function. I find saving news articles (and recipes) this way especially useful in case they are later removed. You could add the link as a note to the pdf.

        3. LadyofLasers*

          Mendeley is most useful for actual files, and I primarily use it for published papers, or books chapters in PDF format. It’s biggest strength is automatically formatting bibliographies in word or Bibtex, but I also like that I can set it to watch folders and every time I save a new paper, Medeley will automatically add it to your data base. It also makes my references very searchable.

          I ‘ve never used it for websites, or newspaper articles, but Mendeley does include categories for them. You can annotate, and add notes to each item (although there isn’t a lot of room). There’s a browser extension to automatically add a new reference online.

          But from what you’ve said below, it sounds like you want to take a lot of notes, and don’t care as much about creating citations. If that’s the case Evernote or Onenote might be a better fit. I’ve tried both, and I found onenote to be glitchy compared to Evernote.

          But in my experience the most important thing is to pick 1 (or 2) platforms and fully commit to putting everything there. As you’re experiencing, when you save things in many places you never find them again.

    4. Honoria Glossop*

      Is this just to keep you organized? Or will it be shared with others? This sounds a little nuts, but I keep track of interesting articles on a personal subreddit (accessible only to me). It allows me to save links to literally anywhere, and I can access it anywhere with internet. I can add tags for categorization, and I leave a comment if I want to make notes or anything.

    5. Ixolite*

      Librarian here! Strategic intelligence is part of my job and I adore it. It’s so stimulating and fun.

      I organize my documents using Evernote and I have to handle many formats just like you. I like it because it lets you basically create a database of entries (notes) with a personalized tagging system. I use the Web Clipper extension for Chrome to add things to Evernote from the web and then, for anything that doesn’t come from the Internet (paper documents, PDFs, hearsay, etc.) I manually create a note (which takes 5 seconds basically). I find it about 200% more user-friendly than Zotero, although it doesn’t have the citation function so that’s something to keep in mind if you need it. The tags are the best part: I can tag whatever I collect according to the projects I’m working on and access it all super easily.

      I’d look into OneNote like someone already suggested – I think it basically does the same thing as Evernote and from what I know it connects to Sharepoint.

      1. Reba*

        I’m glad to read this. I use Evernote, but I strongly suspect I’m not using it to full potential. I’ll have to give tagging a try, as my project is starting to sprawl such that navigating notes and stacks is becoming a pain.

        Also I am fascinated by the sound of “strategic intelligence.”

      2. hermit crab*

        OK, you get me. :) This sounds really promising for me, thank you! I think the tagging capability is key, because my portfolio covers a bunch of overlapping projects and subtopics.

      3. OhNo*

        The folks I know that process of lot of info for their jobs – one in business intelligence and one in fundraising – both swear by Evernote for organizing their info.

      4. Observer*

        The tagging is the thing that keeps me with Evernote.

        I only have 3 notebooks, but a large number of tags. Because SOOOO often, I need to look for stuff in different ways. If each article shows up in only one place or context, then OneNote has some advantages over Evernote,. But, if you need to be able to find stuff in different ways, Evernote is much better.

        For instance, if order a computer, I’ll tag is as a purchase, that a computer, the vendor, and the department.

        If each research project is a discrete thing, that’s no big deal. But if you are researching stuff with multiple implications, it’s something to think about.

    6. n*

      I also do a lot of research for my job. I have a two-tiered system.

      For web-based articles, I use Instapaper. It strips the article of any ads and saves it to Instapaper, so even if the article is taken down/moved later, you still have a copy. You can add highlights, notes, create folders, and it has a full-text search feature. Very useful.

      For pdfs, I just use Google drive. With well-named folders and file names, it makes it pretty easy to keep track of things, and it also has a search feature. I also have a Chrome extension that allows me to mark up pdfs in the browser, so I just open it up from Google drive, read, make notes, and it syncs back to drive.

      But if you’re a fan of tagging systems, I’d second the Evernote recommendation using the web clipper to save any online articles. If you need to collaborate with folks at work, OneNote is really great for that. You can create shared notebooks, and also make certain pages private/password-protected while still keeping the whole notebook shared. And it integrates with Word and Outlook very well.

    7. Just Elle*

      Not sure if this applies here, but..
      I do a lot of benchmarking in my job, and we use a specific template. The valuable thing here is that I’m not just gathering knowledge to maybe-or-maybe-not use again, its turning info into actions.
      If I don’t see how the knowledge could be applicable to actually effect change right now, it just goes in a backlog file.

      Its an excel sheet, but you could use any other tool. The columns go:
      -Subject/keyword
      -Source (including hyperlink)
      -What they do
      -What we do
      -The gap between what they do and what we do
      -Action plan (which could include more research, follow up, etc – this column gets updated constantly)
      -Actionee

  5. Getting so tired...*

    TL;DR – Tired of being the one to always say “no,” any ideas for managing this?

    I’m a mid-level product development scientist at a company. There are only a handful of scientists at the company and I’m one of the only ones working in product development. As a result, a lot of ideas that other individuals have end up getting filtered through me for evaluation. And I have to reject the majority of them for lack of scientific evidence (though I always do it carefully and tactfully). Most of the company seems to actually appreciate this, since strong science is something we’ve always stood for and other departments want to keep that reputation. Our marketing team recently told me how much they appreciate having me here and that the work I’m doing is invaluable to them.

    The problem is actually my own department and the department head, who despite being a scientist seems to not really care about maintaining a certain level of scientific standard. Previously we had another scientist in a higher position than me who was also evaluating ideas, which helped in sharing the burden a lot and since he had been here for decades, he had a lot of respect. But he recently retired, so it has turned to falling more and more on me. I’m getting more and more burnt out on having to always be the one to reject ideas and feeling like my department head isn’t supportive of it, especially when I have to carefully turn down their ideas or their friends’ ideas. For multiple reasons, leaving isn’t an option for me right now.

    Is anyone else the “no” person at their company? How do you manage the fatigue of always being the bearer of bad news?

    1. Adminx2*

      Can part of the rejection process include a few paragraphs on what they need to buff up their request and raise it to approval level if they resubmit?

        1. Observer*

          That’s often not true.

          So, you might say “In order for this to work, we would need to figure out how to deal with the fact that chocolate freezes at a higher temperature than water.” instead of “This won’t work because water freezes at a lower temperature than chocolate.” or instead of “Unicorns? Since when are they a thing?”, or even “There is no contemporary evidence that unicorns actually exist.” you might say “In order for this project to be viable, we would need to establish that unicorns, or something like them, exist outside of virtual reality.”

          1. OP*

            Observer, these are amazing answers! I am going to work on finding a way to phrase things like this! No matter how scientifically implausible they actually are.

    2. Auntie Social*

      Have you phrased it as “If it had rockets then it would work”, the “if you, then you” no? Or “I like this part”. There are lots of “yes” ways to say no and still be somewhat encouraging.
      I’m sorry you’re the only grown-up there, though. That gets tiring.

    3. wandering_beagle*

      I don’t work in this industry, so I apologize if this wouldn’t be an option — but would you be able to create a standard “idea intake form” with one of the requirements being that if someone is submitting an idea it has to have “x” number of studies supporting it? Or, if not a standard form, post a list of requirements (wherever that would be highly visible) for submitting an idea. My thought is that would cull the number of ideas you’re receiving that don’t have scientific evidence. And if someone submits their idea without evidence anyway, you can outright reject it and point to the requirements.

    4. Lora*

      I used to be, in Process Development – “No, you need to perform these experiments before I can start considering how to scale this up,” “No, we absolutely cannot use methylethyldeath as a starting material,” “No, a binding assay does not constitute proof of concept” etc.

      What I ended up doing was switching to Yes, But:
      Yes, but it will cost $40M extra in equipment, FTEs, contract labor etc to perform the necessary development and validation work
      Yes, but it will require an additional 2 years to perform the following experiments and we would need to bring an SME in house to ensure IP protection
      Yes, but here is the investment you would risk before you’d even know if this was a viable molecule, let alone be able to make a go/no-go decision on whether it is marketable

      Basically I just lay out for them what the investment of time and money would be to get them from (half-baked idea) to (viable thing worth throwing money at) and show them the risk analysis (i.e. your half-baked idea has a 99% chance of failing miserably) and ask if this is really something they would like to do, in the interests of their making a fully informed decision. The answer is rarely, yes move forward; the other side of it is, people will mostly stop bringing forward ideas because they don’t want to look stupid, and if you want people to be able to develop good ideas, you have to give them time and leeway to do that and get some feasibility data for you. If the idea-havers don’t have time or resources to develop a decent idea on their own, and leeway to be wrong sometimes, you just won’t get any new ideas after a while.

    5. KatieKat*

      I act as a sort of internal consultant at my company, and managers often come to me with ideas that are….not practical. They want to put something in place that’s burdensom, not maintainable, over-designed, etc. I take the approach of briefly explaining why we can’t do their idea, then asking questions to understand what they were trying to solve. From there I propose an alternative idea, or if the problem isn’t clear or isn’t clearly a problem, I suggest that they keep an eye on it for a while and come back if it changes.

      Not sure how applicable the second part is, but I know it can be hard to always have to say no to someone! Try to keep in the front of your mind that you’re there because the other folks don’t have your expertise, and that they should (and in most cases do!) value that expertise. A sane and normal person cares more about the right ideas getting done and the health of the business than about how many times they hear “no” from you, so long as you are polite and reasonable.

    6. LadyByTheLake*

      This is funny — I was also going to post about having to be the “no” person at my organization. My role is also a control role, so I am often the one who has to say “you are doing that wrong” or “no you can’t do that.” The thing is that then everyone complains that I’m being mean, when actually I’m just doing my job. One thing that I do is that I never start an email with the word “No” — plus I always explain what the problem is — I don’t just say “you can’t do that”. But I’ll be eager to see what advice you get because I struggle with this too.

      1. Ashley*

        How do you cope with the negative nelly attitude the seems to accompany me on this? My coworkers have half baked ideas and I am always left with pointing out the flaws or holes in the plan. There are some ideas that are just bad and there is a reason things are done the way they are.

    7. I'm A Little Teapot*

      Add scientific evidence as a requirement for submitting an idea. I assume you have a form or something that has to be filled out? If they don’t fill out that section, reject as incomplete form vs. not scientifically supported. If they have to add research references, then there’s a good chance they’ll realize on their own it won’t work and won’t submit it at all.

      1. Alice*

        I disagree with this. It sounds to me that the workflow here is
        1. people who aren’t scientists propose ideas
        2. OP (the only scientist in product development) assesses whether the proposals are scientifically valid
        I can see how it’s frustrating for OP to spend a lot of time on it, but adding in step 1.5, in which the people who aren’t scientists learn enough about science, literature searching, and critical appraisal to “pre-review” their proposals, is a huge ask in terms of time and education.
        I think it’s better to try and change different aspects of the problem:
        – if someone is acting shirty when you say no, address that with your manager and the shirty person and her manager if necessary
        – if you wish the burden of screening these proposals could be shared more widely, pitch your manager on that
        – internally and to your unsupportive department head, can you reframe this from “shooting down some ideas” to “helping my colleagues sort through all their ideas to find the ones worth investigating”? And can you focus on the excellent internal “customer service” you provide by responding quickly, or by synthesizing and simplifying complex information?

        Good luck.

    8. designbot*

      I’d try giving a presentation at a team meeting, or distributing an FAQ, explaining the common pitfalls. Be super upbeat and like “hey, I don’t like having to say no so much! Let’s figure out how to get more of your ideas into the ‘yes’ pile.” And then pick say the top 3 things that you’ve seen disqualifying ideas in the past. Basically reframe your role from ‘the no guy’ into ‘the how-to-get-to-yes’ guy.

      1. designbot*

        reading some of your followup comments, I’d also maybe add an example of something that was a ‘yes’ and walk them through how the person/people submitting it demonstrated that it could work.

    9. Sam.*

      My approach is actually “no, but.” As in, “no, that’s not possible, but here’s a potential solution that might accomplish similar goals.” I’m responsible for weeding out the completely ridiculous and unrealistic ideas, but I don’t actually have any veto power, so while I do have to shut them down, it’s to my advantage to do it in a way that comes across as more helpful than stifling. My approach is typically to identify my specific “concerns” and the reasons they’re problematic, followed by, “but if your priority is X, you might consider Y as a solution. If it’s Z, I’d look into Q as a way to approach this.” I’ve had this kind of job at two orgs and have been one of two people in the position at both places, and in both instances I developed a reputation as the preferred reviewer because people understood why I said no but felt like they had some avenues for future thought (versus the total shutdown they got otherwise). May not apply exactly to your exact situation, but I think these kinds of strategies can help.

      I also wonder if the boss’s boss values scientific rigor the way most of the rest of the company does and, if so, whether they’re aware that there’s a disconnect.

    10. Nesprin*

      This seems like a case for early intervention and documentation. Its easier to poke holes in an experimental plan before starting than to redo it if not done to standard. Any chance you could start pre-trial plan reviews?
      Likewise, writing up (obvious) requirements all experiments must have a clearly spelled out hypothesis supported by evidence, 3+ biological replicates or nothing, statistical analysis blessed by person/according to standard book, and presentation format x documenting this process.

      1. Nesprin*

        To add to this, scientists are supposed to have thick skin and you saying no should not be a novel thing or an emotionally charged personal attack. They call it a thesis defense for a reason.

    11. OP*

      Thanks for all of this honest feedback. It makes me feel a little better to know that I’m not the only one in a role like this and it’s also helped me decide to work on reframing my answers to make sure I’m helping people see what it would take to get to a yes, so that it doesn’t feel to them (and hopefully to me too!) that I’m always the “no” person.

      A couple of you hit the problem on the head that most of the people sending these ideas through are non-scientists and they get frustrated when I turn something down, because whatever salesperson passing through told them that there is substantial scientific data showing unicorn glitter can cure blindness. So surely it must be true! And look, they even have a graph in a brochure showing it’s true! Part of this probably speaks to our greater problems with the product development process, but I’ve learned to accept that’s not going to change anytime soon. But I think I will talk to the department head about possibly setting up a submission process and perhaps panel of us to review these. Maybe if the answers are coming from a panel it would reduce the individual responsibility that I feel as well as helping standardize the level of science we’re looking for.

  6. BRR*

    I’m in an ongoing conflict with a coworker that I’m not sure how to handle. This person is a peer who has been hostile towards me for months. Her behavior includes throwing in antagonistic comments every time we interact and insinuating that my work/field is silly and adds no value.

    Her comments hit that sweet spot of being cutting while being subtle enough that she can deny there was ill intent. I’ve pushed back a few times but usually can’t form a professional response quick enough (or really at all since I can’t make my replies as subtle).

    I’m not sure what to do at this point and I’ve had it. My office culture is…something else, so if I push back harder I know she’ll go to our manager who will tell me that I need to cut it out (our manager LOVES her; he thinks she’s the greatest thing since sliced bread). I’ve thought about going to our manager, which I hate to do because we’re adults, but he’s conflict averse and already knows that she has an attitude problem. I would make an educated guess that even if he told her to stop, nothing would change.

    1. Artemesia*

      This is hard, of course it is, or you wouldn’t have the question and thus no easy answer. In a case like this I not only drop the rope, but lean forward a bit when I do it. i.e. I’d be a cordial stranger, if there is a cutting remark lean into it ‘oh you think Frog Wrangling is useless here at Amphibia; interesting, why is that?’ if she makes a nasty suggestion, ‘oh thanks for the insight, I’ll think about that.’ All done with good cheer. She lives to annoy you so being mildly pleased with the world when you interact with her takes all the fun out of it. It helps to withdraw as a participants and become an observer. Distance yourself psychologically and be secretly amused, allow a very slight smile to play on your lips when she behaves badly, perhaps a slight bit of pity or sympathy. If called on that it is ‘oh I feel badly that you seem to be having a tought time today.’ Feel superior. See her as pathetic. Don’t allow annoyance to show only pity or amusement — but very subtly. I have used this technique on a know it all who was always intrusive and sure of herself in putting people in their places. It worked well in two ways: it obviously was confusing to her and it made me feel good.

        1. I Wrote This in the Bathroom*

          Sigh, this would not have worked with mine! Mine used to just tell me I was ugly. Telling them ‘oh you think I’m ugly; interesting, why is that?’ or ‘oh thanks for the insight, I’ll think about that’ would’ve made their day, and would’ve made them double down on the bullying in the hopes that I’d come back with more hilarious lines. But would definitely work great in a workplace!

          1. fposte*

            Nothing will work with everyone, but that’s pretty much what my bullies did, and greeting them before they greeted me and saying “Oh, cool!” to pretty much whatever they said still worked on them. Usually I was a total fail with bullying so I was pretty pleased.

      2. This Space For Rent*

        This is sound advise. I had a boss who delighted in upsetting staff and completely taking the wind out of people’s sails. I discovered when I stopped reacting emotionally, that this frustrated her immensely. The more batshit crazy she behaved, the more unflappable and cheerful I became. It served to actually draw attention to her bad behavior. I don’t know if this will work in your instance, BRR, but not allowing her nonsense to get to you is completely within your purview.

        2. LKW*

          I had a bat shit crazy boss and when he fired me he was so frustrated and angry because I did not react at all. No weeping, no defensiveness, no anger. I just smirked at him and when he asked if I was OK I said “I have other irons in the fire.” (I had already gotten a new job, in writing, they just couldn’t start me right away).

          It was awesome.

          1. Minocho*

            I was in a similar situation once. My boss looked physically ill as he was firing me, but my skip level stomped out of the room after telling me why I was fired (I was fired for not completing a coworker’s project – coworker was not disciplined for said project. It was obviously really about something else) because I joked with the HR lady and comforted my boss that I’d be fine. I personally believe he was annoyed that I didn’t break down.

      4. BRR*

        Thank you and everyone for your help! I think “oh I feel badly that you seem to be having a tough time today” will be very useful.

      6. Elizabeth West*

        I’ve done this. It takes the wind completely out of their sails and their snark falls flat. They don’t know what to do, LOL.

      7. the corner ficus*

        A friend of mine works in website development for small companies that can’t do it in-house. She has one client in particular who doesn’t understand a lick of the technical stuff behind her webpage so she gets really panicked and curt when something goes wrong. Her new coworker saw one her emails come through (ranting, borderline rude as usual) and instead of getting mad he actually laughed and said “I’m going to make this woman my best friend by the end of the month.”

        Long story short, she only wants Michael now. It’s always, “Just tell Michael. He knows everything about what I need.” Sometimes being crazy friendly is just crazy enough to work.

      8. Eccentric Smurf*

        This really works. In my experience,
        Polite/cordial indifference makes people like that soooo frustrated. There’s something oddly satisfying about watching them realize that they just don’t matter enough (to you) to warrant the kind of reaction they’re looking for. And the best part is, you’re not the one behaving inappropriately, so there’s not a darned thing they can say about it to management, teachers, etc.

    2. WK*

      Be unrelentingly cheerful/nice/kind to your coworker. It will drive her crazy. It will also lead anyone who witnesses your interactions to see that she is being crappy to you while you are being nothing but nice to her, which might help you if you ever do decide to go to your manager about it.

      1. Bunny Girl*

        I was just going to comment this. I have a faculty member that I work with who is honestly just a complete and total b**ch. But she is “well respected” in her field and she doesn’t treat other faculty members like crap, just staff, so any time a staff member complains to our department head, it’s brushed off. So I’m just insufferably cheerful to her. It’s not in my nature, that’s not how I am as a person, but it drives her totally up the wall and I can tell and it makes my petty little heart so happy.

      2. ElspethGC*

        This often comes with a glorious payoff. I was incredibly patient when it came to interacting with someone who flip-flopped between wanting us to be best friends forever and wanting to bite my head off for breathing, and everyone recognised that. It killed me a little inside to not retort the way I wanted to, but we had to coexist somewhat peacefully, so it just wasn’t worth it.

        But it was *all* worth it when she started moaning about me to someone else (“Ugh, don’t go near Elspeth today, she’s being a complete b*tch, she’s snapping at me for no reason, I just don’t know why she gets like this.”) and this other girl, the nicest, sweetest human being, just turned around and went “No, Jane, I can guarantee she’s not being a b*tch to you, and I honestly can’t believe she’s put up with you for this long because *I* certainly wouldn’t have been able to do it if you treated me the way you treat her.”

        Ah, glorious vindication. It makes me feel all warm and happy inside every time I remember it.

        Admittedly we were all 17/18 at the time, but when someone is as immature as a coworker that does this, it’ll probably annoy them just as much as it annoyed my nemesis back then.

        1. That Girl From Quinn's House*

          I had a coworker like this too. I mostly took the high road unless she was insulting me in front of a group where I was obligated to say something. She spent a lot of time trash talking me behind my back too. A lot of the people we worked with saw what she was doing and sometimes would clue me in, or be like, “What that’s ridiculous she’s nice and helpful!” when she trashed me. But a few Bosses believed her, and it stayed a problem that stuck with me the whole time I worked there.

        2. WK*

          Yeah my advice is rooted in experience, I once had a coworker that was incredibly mean and nasty to me, to the point that I broke down in tears once. When I went to my boss about it, she said “you two just need to find a way to get along.” So I started being super nice to her, eventually my boss witnessed me very nicely go up to her and ask her for help with a task and her react nastily to me, she got a talking to, and the problem was (finally) solved.

    3. Adminx2*

      Play dumb. When she makes a comment, go blank, do the head tilt and say “I’m not sure what you mean?” and “Can you explain that? I don’t get it.” If she manages to explain you can just go “Huh, I guess that’s one way to look at it.” or “I never saw it like that but that’s cool.”
      Force her passive subtext into the open so it can be clear and easily dismissed.
      In a few people this MAY cause them to become more aggressive in other areas, if they really have it out for you or can’t stand their tactics being undermined. On the one hand it means they play their hand more obviously, but it can be even more annoying or even scary. Make your best judgement.

      1. ErgoBun*

        Yes, this! Call out her “subtlety” and make her explain it. Return rudeness to sender. Eventually she’ll either have to stop it or show her true colors. Bonus if you can get her to do this in front of your boss.

      2. LKW*

        This is exactly what I mean. When she says something subtle that could be misinterpreted call it out as innocently as you can muster “Jane, that’s an interesting comment. So I’m clear, you mean innocent scenario and not condescending and not innocent at all scenario? Right? I just want to make sure we understand one another.”

        Do it every time and people will begin to realize that she’s using inflammatory language and her innocent cover will be blown. If she challenges you and says “Why do you always assume the worst?” you simply say “I’m assuming the best, but just making sure that we’re communicating well.” or something to that effect.

      3. LaDeeDa*

        Yes! This was going to be my advice as well. I put passive aggressive and aggressive comments back on the person and make them explain. Play sweet and stupid. This keeps you from engaging in the back and forth, and points out to everyone exactly what that person is doing. People don’t like to be called out in this way, because it makes them EXPLAIN instead of you pointing out. It takes all ownership away from you.

    4. softcastle mccormick*

      Absolutely nothing to add except for how much I feel you on this. I’m in a similar work situation with a coworker who is inappropriate, has behavior and boundaries problems, but is absolutely beloved by our manager because she’s a chronic over-worker and is a genius at making herself look busy. She too is a “run to the manager” type to prevent any sort of word against her, and it infuriated me at first. Here’s how I’ve been dealing:
      1) Headphones. Just tune out the negativity unless it’s absolutely necessary to interact.
      2) Make other peers in the office. Note if other people feel similarly to you. Even if you don’t do anything about it, it’s good to know others feel your pain.
      3) Document and keep track of the comments in case it gets so bad a trip to HR or the manager is warranted.
      4) In that vein, don’t forget about HR. I know HR is never truly on your side, but they do have to take work abuse and inappropriate comments seriously, so if the line is ever crossed, make sure you have evidence.
      5)Just try your best to swallow and ignore it. This person knows what they’re doing with the subtle remarks, and you’re right to keep it professional. I know it sucks, but that’s the only way you can come out looking good.

      If your office culture is anything like mine, this behavior will be allowed to continue as long as the coworker remains valuable (output-wise) to the team. The best thing I ever did for myself was to slowly build up emotional resistance to these sorts of comments, and let my work and consistency speak for myself. It’s not difficult for the /right/ people to notice what’s actually going on. Is your boss relatively separated from your day-to-day office goings-on?

    5. ThisColumnMakesMeGratefulForMyBoss*

      I would just look at her and say “Wow”. Then walk away. She’s a bully and is looking for a reaction. Don’t give her one.

      I would also consider going to your manager, more as a record that you’re addressing the way she’s treating you in case your co-worker tries to get you into trouble. Document the comments, so you can show them how often it happens and what he’s saying. It may not change anything, but it gets you in front of it if it comes back on you.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      Ahh a little gaslighter.
      You know, sincere and happy people do not speak in sentences loaded with ambiguity.
      This is a person who is not happy, perhaps she does not believe in her own power. For example, she can’t ask you to pass a copy of the X report over to her because why would you? No one else has ever treated her that way so why start now? Just a thought to hold in the back of your mind. I often chuckled at one job, I had thoughts like this every week about the behavior of a certain few. I realized that we are all fairly transparent one to the other. Just as I can see through some people’s actions, others can see through my actions.

      You can use that denial. Here’s how:

      You: “Gee, Cruella, it sounds like you think we don’t need a Frog Wrangler here.”
      Her: “Oh I never said that!”
      You: (Cheerily) Oh, good that clears that up. I am so glad that you understand how I help the effort here and you are on board with that. I am glad we had this talk and got that settled.” [Carry the expectation that the topic is forever closed. Or at least look like you expect the topic is forever closed.]

      It’s a set up. The pattern goes like this:
      You: “Person, it sounds like you are saying X.” ( You know they are going to deny it so you wait for that denial.)
      Person: “deny, deny, deny”
      You: Oh good, I am so glad we cleared this all up. So going forward we won’t have any mix-ups regarding Xs. This is great.

      Key part: You keep doing this. Over and over. Follow the pattern each time.

      You: “Person, it sounds like you think I ordered to many of A and not enough of B.”
      Person: “deny, deny, deny” (Because these folks are wonderfully predictable.)
      You: Oh, good. I kinda thought you remembered that we used 2 of A for every 1 of B, so we would need twice as many A’s. I am glad we got that squared away.

      Plan on doing this for the rest of your time working with her. But you will end up having to do it less and less.
      You do this long enough you get good at it.

      Me: “Boss, it sounds like you told my coworker you think I am an ass.”
      Boss: deny, deny, deny
      Me: “Oh good, I feel better now. [Not really.] I don’t like to let problems fester, I want to be sure you know that if something is wrong with my work, I want to know immediately so I can correct it immediately.” [The correction here is I am letting you know what you say does circle around to ME.]”

      OP, if you want to role play this here, post something and I will reply as if I am you.

      1. BRR*

        Thank you so much! This is all so incredibly helpful! I would like to take you up on the role play offer with a recent example. I made a small mistake with some data entry and she sent the correction with, “This was on the list you sent out so I’m not sure why it wasn’t entered this way?” I’m fine with the correction, we all make mistakes, but the only reply I wanted to send was “I’m more than happy to correct any mistakes that I’ve made but that second part isn’t necessary.”

        1. LKW*

          Ah, to these you reply “Oh I’m so glad you caught that error! I’m so glad that team members look out for one another here. I’ll be sure to let you know if I run into any problems.”

          Just act as if her intentions were good (they’re not); getting defensive is counterproductive in these situations.

          But if you run across one of her errors – oh you go to town (professionally) on that!

          2. Not So NewReader*

            Yep, yep, yep.
            “Oh this is great, thank you. I am so glad you have my back, too. It’s super important for teammates to help each other. I will be sure to return the favor if I see anything. We can’t let each other fall down.”

            She will never show you another mistake for the rest of your life. ;)

    7. Annie Moose*

      What would happen if you just don’t react to it? I know that can be difficult, but it sounds like she’s doing this for the reaction–she wants to annoy and frustrate you. Denying her the satisfaction of a response could discourage her, because she isn’t getting anything out of it. It’s okay to not “win” every argument of this nature; you and I and any sensible person knows that the argument is stupid to begin with.

      (of course, if she’s just a generally nasty person, this might not do anything; she might derive satisfaction from being nasty even if you don’t react to it. But it might help you to know that she’s being absurd and her comments don’t matter. I mean, implying your field is useless? What kind of childish Mean Girls comment is that??)

      1. BRR*

        My reaction is all internal so it’s not feeding her. I don’t know if she’s insecure or want to supply fuel for her own sense of superiority.

        1. knitcrazybooknut*

          If your reaction isn’t feeding her, then her little burst of superiority is. If only for your own peace of mind, just learn to let it slide and be as professional about it as you can. I agree about returning the meanness to sender. My mom used to say pretty hurtful things under the guise of “Oh, that’s just a misunderstanding! You’re too sensitive/dramatic, etc. etc. forever”. When she would say something like that, I would pause, then say, “I’m sorry, what did you say?” with a bemused tone in my voice. My intent was to make her think about what she just said, and let her know I heard it. Her response was usually, “Well you know what I mean!” I think making your coworker repeat herself will at least tell her you understand what’s going on. My final solution with my mom was to stop being in contact with her (five blissful years of peace so far), but I know that’s not necessarily an option for you!

          1. Not So NewReader*

            Unfortunately, BRR, with folks like this the response, “well you know what I mean” is the closest you will get to “winning”. If they backpedal in any way you have made your point.
            It’s good NOT to expect apologies or explanations. There won’t be any. The best you can hope for is there is no repeat of that particular conversation.

            I am sorry, knitcrazy, that your mom was so harsh. Congrats on rising above it.

        2. Indie*

          These people take the wind out of your sails initially with the oddity, but they very quickly become predictable and amusing.
          Plus they have a well of suppressed rage which is going to spill over in an embarrassing way one day. Get popcorn.

    8. ..Kat..*

      I have someone at my work doing this to me. I follow most of the advice about not engaging. The two problems for me are
      1. She is sweet to everyone else, so I have no one in my corner.
      2. This takes a lot of mental energy out of me and adds stress.

      I wish I could be as calm and unmoved on the inside as I am on the outside.

  7. NBG*

    Greetings all, happy Friday! I am an aspiring freelancer (writing, copyediting and digital communications). I have ideas for launching my own side business while working full-time. I was wondering what resources folks use for advice/counseling, mentoring, and giving a reality check to ideas and their viability. I am reading how-to books on freelancing, participating in online communities for freelance editors, and am planning on taking additional training on key skills. I was wondering if freelancers have gotten good mileage out of entities such as the Small Business Administration and locally-based small business centers? I live in the Washington DC Metro area and am curious if anyone can recommend organizations or government offices which support small businesses and freelancers. I am also Asian-American so curious if folks have found ethnic-based organizations for entrepreneurs helpful. Thanks for any insights!

    1. Beehoppy*

      Ooo-I’m in your same area and same boat (although not Asian-American). I currently do a little bit of work for clients I’ve gotten from personal referrals but am wanting to grow the business. Would love to see what resources people share. Not sure how we could connect, but am also looking to develop a support network of folks in a similar situation.

    2. AMA Long-time Lurker*

      OP, if you’re female identifying and on Facebook, see if you can get yourself an invite to THE BINDERS, a private writing resource group (based on the whole “binders full of women” debacle). There are a ton of specific pages based out of it where folks share information, opportunities, resources…it is my go-to as a writer.

    3. NBG*

      Thanks both! Argh I am a male so won’t be eligible for The Binders! Behoppy, I would be interested in connecting and being part of the support network.

      1. Formerly Arlington*

        My agency is looking for freelance copywriters. I’ll have to check out The Binders. Right now we use Media Bistro and it’s been hit or miss.

  8. Managing an Established Team*

    I’m looking for input from managers who were hired to manage an established team, and also input from those who are or have been on an established team and a new manager came in.

    I will be starting a new job the middle of next month and want to start off on the right foot and set myself and my team up for success. It’s the same highly regulated industry, same area of expertise as the job I have now. I was hired to manage a department and I’ll have about 10 people reporting to me in general. One person is called a team lead, and another person isn’t a supervisor or team lead, but he has a couple people that he supervises; together they supervise eight people in total.
    Some background: I was hired at my current job several years ago to manage an established team of two people, which grew to four the same day I started (added one more person awhile back also), and I really think I could have done a lot better. I did OK, but I feel like I just skated by.

    At my previous company I managed two people and I was there for many years, which meant that I had a lot of confidence and felt comfortable with everything about my job. Never did one-on-ones. It wasn’t a thing there at all. I’d never had them and didn’t know they existed, so didn’t know I should be doing them. But we were so small that career growth and things like that just seemed to happen naturally in the course of conversation. Next company, my boss did one-on-ones and they were awful. Over an hour every week and it was just her coming in with a stack of work to talk about. No career talk or anything like that at all; it was exhausting and we all dreaded it every week. At my current company, some managers do them and some don’t. My boss never did, but we always managed to touch base often and have good discussions. And that’s how I managed my team. No one wanted one-on-ones (I asked several times; yes I know I should have done them anyway).

    I came into my current company having not managed more than two people before, so it was really tough to move to managing more. It was a new company, new people, and I no longer had the security blanket of being at the company for almost 20 years; I was insecure. What made it awkward—and this is all on me—is that, according to my boss, the senior person had apparently been offered my job and turned it down due to burnout, which is why I was hired. In talking with this employee shortly after I came on board, he told me “I could never do what you do. Glad you’re dealing with all this!” Meaning, having to deal with making all the policy and process changes, etc. Several months later he told me that he was offered the job and, at that moment, was burned out and didn’t think he wanted the job, but it really seemed as though he was saying he regretted not taking it. That’s the vibe I got, and that made it awkward. (Actually that’s the vibe I got for most of my time here.) Also, since he and another person had worked together for a couple years, that other person tended to treat him as the boss for a while. And he, in turn, kept referring to my boss as his boss. There were times when a decision had to be made (a normal daily occurrence as part of our workload and much of it is subjective in nature) and if I didn’t agree, he’d sometimes go to my boss as the tie-breaker.

    A big part of this new job and the reason I was hired is to affect change. I’ve been warned already that I may run into a lot of people that are resistant, both within the department and the departments we serve.

    I have several weeks to prepare, so please share with me your best tips, horror stories, success stories and anything else you can think of. What worked best for you as a manager coming into a new company with an established team? What didn’t work? What do you regret doing or not doing and wish you’d done? How did you establish your authority and deal with people who may not want to make changes? What was the first thing you did as someone who needs to affect change? And as the team member with the new manager, what made your life more difficult? What made it easier? Is there something you wish your manage had done and didn’t? Or wish she hadn’t done?

    1. Artemesia*

      It is often a no win position to be hired to ‘effect change’ since the current management has obviously failed to do that. Why? Are they unwilling to be assertive with a difficult team? Have they not tried?

      I would want to sit down with the management and find out precisely how they want things to change and what they have already tried to bring that about. Are there productivity issues that can be quantified? What should things look like a year from now if you are successful? What have they told this team about these goals? How far are they ready to go if there is serious resistance? It is very common for cowardly managers to throw someone into an unsupported change agent role and let them be devoured by wolves. So find out what they want to see change and what they are willing to support to do it? Including willingness to let people go who refuse to go along.

      Then with the new team, I would briefly meet with the team and lay out the targets the management has set for the coming year and identify the issues that concern them and then tell them you will want their ideas on accomplishing this and will meet with each of them to get their input. Then sit down with each person and find out what they see as barriers to getting these things done? Once you have their ideas, you can then plan a meeting with the whole team to share the team’s vision and the management concerns and lay out your initial strategy to achieve these changes. In my experience, most teams know what needs done and someone in the group will come up with the same things you would want to try. So establishing some team ownership is the way to start. You don’t do the brainstorming as a team because of concerns that some very negative members will discourage others. Doing it one on one gets you concrete ideas you can add to your own concrete ideas before Fergus gets to say ‘we tried that in California 30 years ago and it didn’t work.’

      Nothing annoys a team like a newbie who knows it all; so getting their ideas and building on them as you add your own is a more graceful way to start.

      1. That Girl From Quinn's House*

        Yes, this. Often when you’re hired to effect change, it’s because the company doesn’t have the resources or support to make the change themselves.

        “We need to buy new helmets for the llama jockeys, because OSHA” turns into “Oh but that’s not in the budget.”
        “Fergus is belligerent and hostile to staff and customers, and seldom shows up to work” turns into “Oh but we can’t write up Fergus, he’s been here forever and we’re heading into peak Llama Wrangling season.”
        “We are short four Llama Wranglers and we can’t run the Llama Derby without them because it is against the animal welfare code,” turns into, “Well no one is applying and the Llama Derby is our biggest profit source all year, so you’ll just have to make do.”

      2. Managing an Established Team*

        The most significant changes would mostly be to policies that affect other departments within the company. So if a customer-facing department is doing X, Y and Z, but really only X and Y are important, it’s figuring out how to get those people–the ones digging in their heels–on board with not having to do Z anymore, since Z is really just a CYA thing they’re doing and it’s total overkill. There may be a reason they’re also doing Z, but in the grand scheme of things, Z is just a time-waster. They’re doing Z as part of a daily task to CYA because something happened five years ago and they don’t want it to happen again.

        Other changes are changes in processes within my department. So if we’re doing three processes that all cover the same subject area, do we really need all three? Can we combine them to make it one streamlined process? Can we eliminate one of them, keep one as-is, and maybe tweak another one?

        I’ve been told that I may get a lot of “but we’ve always done it this way.”

    3. Lily Rowan*

      I think going in with a listening attitude is going to be really important — you want people at all levels to think you are taking their concerns seriously, even if you ultimately don’t agree with them. When I started my current middle-management job, in a much larger organization than I had worked in before, I had a ton of on-boarding meetings with people all over the place, up and down the ladder. They were mostly set up for me by my boss, but if no one else does it, I really recommend it. One question I asked everyone was, What could our team be doing better? It gave me a lot of good input and understanding about the different perspectives out there.

    4. Managing an Established Team*

      Just to add a little more context, it’s a new, younger CEO and change is being driven by her. Organization is conservative. They’re hiring a lot of new people to drive change.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      If you want people to listen you have to stop talking.
      I seriously recommend first checking to see if they have what they need to do their jobs. Most of the time you will find that they don’t have what they need. Surprisingly, much of what they need is probably fairly inexpensive and easy to obtain. Get it for them.

      Listen to their concerns. The place is too hot/too cold. They can’t use their PTO/ they don’t have PTO. Find out what they want. Do what you can. Of what you can NOT do, let them know you are working on or you can’t do it but have another idea or it’s coming but it will be a while.

      Explain the changes. “We are no longer doing X. We will be doing Y instead.” Then explain why this change is happening.

      Don’t hit them with 27 changes in one week. They have their regular work to do as well as the additional work of implementing the change.
      Allow them time to learn the change (new programming, new machine, whatever) take work off of them so they can actually get themselves up to speed with the change.
      Get involved with the change and get them involved. Where they can make choices, let them pick from the options.

      Sometimes you can cover more ground by agreeing with them then by acting cheery and detached. “Yeah, I do agree that new process XYZ seems to be encumbered and time consuming. Let’s see if we can come up with some ideas to make it easier for everyone.” Your agreement will gain your more inroads than if you try to make them cheer up about the new idea.

      Hang on to the idea that they do not HAVE to be cheerful about the changes. What you really need them to do is to adapt to the changes. If someone is doing the work in the new way but grumbling, I’d let the grumbling go in favor of the bigger picture that “hey, they are actually using the new method/machine/whatever.” Saying something like, “Yeah, I see that doing x is a bear. I really appreciate you putting in the extra effort here.”, can cover a lot of ground quickly.

    6. Overeducated*

      I posted earlier about being on a team with a new manager and going through massive change. I’m not going to lie, it was hard for a while, because it felt like being told everything we were doing was wrong and/or unnecessary. Frankly, half our team did quit or retire during that transition, and that’s probably the worse that can happen. But we’ve come out the other side, we’ve taken a “focus on essentials” approach to make the workload somewhat manageable for those of us who are left, and we generally see the value of those changes and have a lot of respect for the new manager.

      What made it work: authority and honesty. New manager didn’t try to make friends with us, didn’t try to make sure we were happy or had full buy-in for the changes, just leaned on her managerial authority and said “this is how it’s going to be.” But she asked us a ton of questions to understand how things worked first, let us ask a lot of questions and talk through potential issues with her, and clearly explained the reasoning for her decisions. I consider watching how she made those decisions, and what foundational questions she was asking about the work, to be one of the best learning opportunities I’ve had in my job. The authority is there for you to use, if you aren’t worrying too much about being liked.

      What I, and some of my coworkers, wish had been different: communication. My manager is honest, but not always transparent, in that she often doesn’t pass down information unless we have a clear need to know to get our work done, or unless we directly and specifically ask. Some things need to be kept close to the vest until they are ready to share more widely, but there are plenty of things that do no harm to tell us and make us feel more respected to be in the loop. I think this is more a result of being overwhelmed with work than any ill intent, but authority doesn’t require aloofness.

    7. Jellyfish*

      I’ve been on the employee side of this a few times. We always knew the new person was coming to make changes, but it still shook things up. Once it was done very poorly, and once it was done very well, so I have plenty to say here. :)

      Even though you’re coming in to do things differently, I’d suggest not changing anything for the first month to six weeks. Get to know your people and understand the processes there.
      If you know why a certain process is being done inefficiently for example (tradition? communication issues? redundancy in tasks? special circumstances?), it will be much easier for you explain how and why it needs to change.

      Seconding the others who said that listening is important too. It doesn’t have to be a marathon one-on-one session, but get to know what people like, dislike, and if you can, their long term goals. If one person is ambitious and wants to take on more, or another dislikes change because they’re comfortable with the current system and new tech is scary, that could give you insight into how to frame new things and what reactions to expect.

      Ask for suggestions too. This is just a personal quirk of mine, but when people directly ask for suggestions or feedback, my mind goes blank. If you ask about frustrations or complaints though, and then ask for possible solutions, I think you’ll get better responses. Even if you don’t implement their exact solution, it can help the employees feel like they’re a positive part of the changes. It’s something they have a hand in rather than something being imposed on them.

      Avoid saying things like, “We did it this way at X company.” You work at Y company now, and the Y employees don’t care what people do at X. Even if your ideas come from your previous experience, those ideas should be presented as ways to specifically improve work/efficiency/culture/profits/etc. at the current company.

      Give people measurable goals with realistic time frames. Vague announcements about “we need to communicate better with the chocolate department” won’t really help. Provide concrete descriptions of the result you want, and if necessary, the steps people should take to get there. “I’d like a report by Friday at 3:00 on what current projects and processes require collaboration with the chocolate department and the contact person for each.” Or whatever. Ha, I’m not great at industry non-specific hypotheticals.

      If someone doesn’t like the changes, don’t take it personally. Listen honestly to feedback, but remember that sometimes new things are just hard for people. Their comfortable routine has been disrupted, and they’re trying to figure out how to settle back in. Even when my new manager brought in excellent changes, people still grouched at first. Once we all saw how much more smoothly things went though, it was easier to accept and eventually embrace the new stuff.

      Best of luck and congrats on your new position! You got this!

      1. Managing an Established Team*

        Those are some great suggestions! I will try very hard to restrain myself from saying, “We did it this way at my last company.”

        Any horror stories you can tell me about the time it went poorly? I’d be really interested in hearing them, kind of as an illustration of what not to do.

        I’m also pretty nervous about the people management part of it. I mean, I’ve been doing it for a while, but I feel like I’m not doing it as well as I should. A big part of it is feeling insecure about the fact that I’m coming into an established team. And that’s how I’ve always felt at this company, too. I never really got past it 100%. (I really hate admitting that…)

        I’d love to mention the industry, but I’d out myself here, hence the change in screen name for today. Even though the new company is smaller than the current one, which is also small, one never knows who is reading!

        1. Jellyfish*

          Ha, no real horror stories. The manager he replaced was a horror story on an epic scale though, and that’s what caused the need for a change-bringer in the first place. The new manager was a good guy, but he handled a bad situation poorly. It doesn’t sound like you’re going into that, but there might be some parallels. Our little team was very close and used to protecting each other from our direct manager, so some of the interpersonal dynamics might be similar.

          I think the biggest problem was speed. The new manager literally started making changes on day one.
          There were pretty clear causes for some of the existing problems, but he didn’t take the time to learn what those were. People had developed certain patterns to protect themselves from the previous toxic manager, and when the new guy came in demanding changes, that really freaked people out. There was no way to tell at first if he was going to be toxic too. I think this made us more resistant to him than we would have been if he’d taken a few weeks for everyone to get to know each other.

          He made a whole bunch of fairly little changes right away too. I think he was trying to start small, but it felt like a power play. He asked for changes on how we addressed envelopes, for example. It was a completely reasonable adjustment, but it was a weird thing to do on his very first day. Like, at least learn my last name before you start giving orders?

          There’s a difficult balance between letting small things go for a time and going ahead and implementing easy changes though. Not sure how to solve that one. Some little changes might be easier if they’re based on employee complaints/feedback? Get some suggestions and then base some fixes at least partially on those maybe?

          A few of the processes were also done a certain way for good reason. He demanded new approaches immediately, and then had to go back make changes to the changes later. That didn’t make anyone look good.

          When I saw this done well, the new manager learned the whys behind things first. That way, he could say, “Hey, I know you’ve been doing A to account for B, but we’re going to do C now because of D & E, and we’ll address B in this other way.” Even when people pushed back, it was clear the new guy had thought things through and was trying to make a positive adjustment. His explanations and understanding got enough people on board that the we’ve-always-done-it-this-way complaints looked petty.

          The good manager also communicated really well. He struck a nice middle ground between using his legitimate authority and considering feedback. When he wanted something different, it wasn’t a request, but he was clear and patient in describing why the change mattered. If someone offered a good suggestion, he’d implement that too and give them credit for it.

          There’s the forward and backward framing I mentioned. The good manager didn’t ever bring up his past when making changes. He always framed it as, “Going forward, we’ll do it this way to improve these aspects of our company now.” The poorer manager would talk about back when he was at company X, which made him look a bit stuck in the past. It was like talking about an ex-partner in some ways. They shaped you and you learned from those experiences, but it’s usually best not to say so explicitly.

    8. Managing an Established Team*

      Thanks! There are some good suggestions here and some real food for thought. I’m glad I have three or so weeks to create a plan for the first couple weeks.

      1. TechWorker*

        I think communication is the absolute key. I was in a situation where my manager got a promotion and a new manager came into the middle role to be my direct manager. He basically.. didn’t talk to me.. and when he did it was super forced because we just didn’t really know each other. In hindsight I should have been way clearer about what I needed from him but he didn’t ask either and made some wrong assumptions – like, he managed the project for ~8 months and the plan was always for me to take over after. We would slip work and cut corners to scrape deadlines which stressed me out (and I’m still dealing with the consequences of). His reaction was basically that he didn’t expect anyone on the team to care and making deadlines was his responsibility, hence why he never updated me or explained why it was ok to cut corners.

      2. Katefish*

        One of the most toxic jobs I’ve ever been in was when a new manager was brought into a store to “clean it up.” He immediately brought over employees from his previous store and it led to an us v. them culture for months. I have years of experience, including as a manager in another company, and I still to this day don’t know what the “problem” was to clean up. One boss up was incredibly out of touch and probably didn’t realize the store needed working equipment to replace broken parts, not a new manager. I guess my takeaway would be, make sure the “you need to fix this” higher-ups know the actual causes of the problems prior to fixing them.

  9. Exploring Career Opportunities*

    Earlier in the week, we had a post on some careers that are more competitive like academia and acting/entertainment. But what are some industries that have less or no competition?

    1. FFHP*

      In my area (Gulf Coast), it’s pretty easy to get hired as a secondary math or science teacher, or a K-12 Special Education teacher. Also, we have growing maritime/shipbuilding and aviation/commercial jet manufacturing industries, so it’s easy to get a job in those fields.

    2. Elizabeth Proctor*

      Not that this means less or no competition, necessarily, but jobs in nursing seem to be plentiful.

      1. CupcakeCounter*

        Very much so!
        My sister got her CNA (a very underpaid position IMO) and got her tuition reimbursed and offers to pay for her continued schooling after 1 year. In looking at the plan she could have gotten all the way to RN and not paid a cent as long as she stayed for at least 3 or 6 months after each class ended.

      2. DataGirl*

        Healthcare is the fastest growing industry in my state, and probably across the US as the boomers get older/live longer. Pretty much any career in healthcare such as nurse, lab tech , radiology tech, equipment repair, etc is going to be a winner in terms of job security.

        1. Slartibartfast*

          Radiology and ultrasound is actually very hard to break into. Training programs are turning out graduates far faster than available jobs come open (I looked into both with a recent career change).

      3. Lissa*

        Healthcare in Canada, too – positions like nursing, HCA/RCA are in high demand. I work at a community college and the colleges can’t graduate classes fast enough to keep up with the demand of the aging population. Will be very interesting in a few years to see what happens.

      4. Hamburke*

        My mom is a retired nurse – the industry seems to go in waves of feast or famine. There was a shortage of nurses in the 90s but by the time I finished undergrad in 2000, nurses were a dime a dozen and couldn’t find work.

    3. Muriel Heslop*

      K-12 education definitely has less competition. Even in the large, desirable, southern city where I live there is always a need for teachers and administrators (football coaches not so much.)

      1. Manders*

        It does vary a bit by subject–from what I’ve seen secondhand, schools seem to be having a hard time recruiting and retaining math and science teachers, and some language teachers are in high demand. History and English still seem pretty competitive.

        There are places where pretty much anyone can get hired if you’re willing to live overseas. A lot of my friends went into international teaching programs with no teaching experience at all.

        1. Minerva McGonagall*

          Totally agree it’s based on subject and location – math, science, special ed, reading is going to be in demand anywhere but teachers are highly needed in the urban and southern areas of the US. I live in the northeast, and my husband teaches music. Almost 200 people applied for his job, and it was one of maybe a handful that were posted that hiring cycle in our area.

      2. Annie Moose*

        Depends on the state! In Michigan, at least when my sister was seeking a job, the market was very competitive–there were tons of people with teaching degrees and not enough jobs. A lot of people she went to college with either had to go to charter schools or take long-term sub jobs, things like that. (this was a few years ago now–not sure if the market has improved)

        1. DataGirl*

          Michigander here. The other thing about teaching is you have to be willing to be paid shit. I have the qualifications, but could never live on the salary; thus I work in IT.

        2. Manders*

          Oh yeah, the city and state make a huuuuuge difference, along with the type of school. My husband has several advanced degrees but no M.Ed., which means he can teach at private schools but not public schools in our area. Private school openings are pretty competitive but if he did get his M.Ed. or if we moved to an area with different licensing laws, he’d be in the running for way more jobs.

      3. Liza*

        Same here in the UK. I frequently see schools with banners outside advertising for teaching staff. I don’t know much about how teacher training works over there, but here we have a problem with lots of NQTs dropping out after a couple of years because they can’t handle it. They saw an attractive career (guaranteed job, decent salary, paid to train) and didn’t have many other options, and didn’t realise how horrendous the job can be. So there’s not exactly competition but people still fail, just for different reasons, myself included.

        1. Asenath*

          In my area, it’s difficult to get a job teaching in an urban areas and easier, but not easy, in rural areas. It’s a bit easier to get teaching jobs with certain specialty areas, but in the urban areas it’s assumed all applicants will work as substitutes before being hired full time – that could be a couple of year of part time short term work. And as Liza said, many new teachers leave the field. They often find it too difficult and stressful. It’s not a field I’d generally recommend. Too much competition, too hard to get into, and too much chance of having to quit and find something different.

    4. Adminx2*

      Admin work? I mean it’s a weird time cause lots of places are trying to convince themselves admins are outre but there’s always new execs and businesses which need that help. Downsides are usually not easy career path to something else or high pay. Upsides are generally easy hours and connect with every level of a company.

      1. Manders*

        Total anecdata here, but my friend who’s currently job searching as an admin is having a really hard time. Part of it is the salary issue–she lives in an expensive area, and a lot of companies just don’t seem to be paying what she needs to make rent, so a lot of job openings just aren’t right for her–but it does seem like she’s competing with a lot of other people right now.

        I had a much easier time job hunting when I switched from admin to marketing. It helps that my accomplishments are quantifiable now. I accomplished a lot as an admin, but my first boss was the sort of guy who holds grudges when people quit, so I didn’t really end up with anything to prove how hard I’d worked. Now I’m in a metrics-driven field.

      2. Lilysparrow*

        I have found that if you have a little specialized admin/secretarial experience, like law (in-house or firm), or finance, it’s much easier to find good-paying admin jobs. This was a prime reason to temp, when I was starting out – even a few months experience in a highly corporate or specialized environment was good resume fodder. And the larger firms really like temp-to-perm, which makes the job hunting easier and lets you know if it’s a good fit.

    5. Meh*

      Truck driving. You get a Commercial Driver’s License and pass a drug test, you’ll get offers out the wazoo for 40-50k jobs with no experience. My brother got three offers the moment he got the license. Other blue collar jobs are also in demand.

      1. T. Boone Pickens*

        Anything trade related is going to be extremely lucrative for the foreseeable future. There just seems to be a shortage of people who want to work as a plumber/electrician/joint fitter/etc.

      2. Exploring Career Opportunities*

        Did your brother get a CDL A or CDL B? Unfortunately for me, I’m not comfortable driving anything bigger than a crossover and if I really push it, I will manage a regular SUV. But even a Surburban has me going “Nope!”

        1. Meh*

          I don’t know the exact license but it was definitely to drive 18-wheelers. I could never do it myself. Sounds like it’s not what you’re looking for. Sorry about that!

      3. It's Pronounced Bruce*

        I’d put a big asterisk on this because, while there is a shortage of drivers, it’s partially because the benefits to being one and the overall compensation have been dwindling and the downsides growing. A lot of the people going into it are getting out again fast, too. It’s hard to get drivers nowadays for a reason.

    6. Lora*

      Biotech. Some companies, I swear they hire anyone with a STEM degree and a pulse. The downside is that you really have to live in either metro Boston or northern CA areas; it gets tougher elsewhere.

      1. City Girl*

        I grew up in NYC and both those areas would be somewhere that I would want to live in. I wish younger me would’ve known this, or would’ve taken an interest in science but I could barely pass high school chemistry…

    7. Daughter of Ada and Grace*

      A lot of the so-called “tech” or “IT” roles have very low unemployment rates, combined with a lot of job vacancies. This would include software development, QA/Testing, UX/UI/Graphic Design, devOps, network/systems administration, database work of various types, and some types of project management and customer support. And most industries now have a strong tech component to them – retail, finance, health care, etc. So jobs are available in areas well beyond the west coast.

      That said, it’s also an area where you usually need a specific skillset (although some places will train from scratch, especially for support and some types of testing positions), and many employers expect the credential of a college degree of some sort (although where I am an AA or AS will often be sufficient).

      1. AMA Long-time Lurker*

        Just came here to second tech/IT/coding. There is ALWAYS need for programmers and data specialists, regardless of industry, so if you are tech savvy and able to teach yourself some Java or SQL, you have a much greater chance of job security. There’s also a higher likelihood that you can work jobs like these remotely. My friends in IT have never had major gaps in their resumes and are paid very well; they’re in such high demand.

      2. DataGirl*

        I agree that there are more tech jobs than people to fill them, but as an IT person my experience has been that most places are not willing to pay what the position is worth or what they are asking for (want 20 years experience, paying entry level wages). So you may end up looking a long time before you find something worthwhile.

        1. There's Always Money in the Banana Stand*

          I think it depends on what kind level of finance we are talking about. If you’re talking about day-to-day banking operations–loan officers, tellers, even low to mid level management–its not all that competitive, at least in my area. If we’re talking auditors, high level management, and out into the higher finance world–investments, financial advising, stocks, etc.–then it definitely gets more competitive.

          1. City Girl*

            I was thinking “Wall Street” when I was reading the banking comment! But this makes sense when you’re talking about banking operations.

        2. ChachkisGalore*

          I’m sure it depends somewhat on location, but if you’re already in a finance heavy area – compliance depts are exploding and desperate for bodies. You used to need a JD, but its definitely moving away from that. For reference – I have a BA in psychology, about 5 years of admin experience and about 2 years of compliance specific experience and I’m contacted at least once a week (if not more) about mid level roles that pay close to or above 6 figures. Getting in to entry level roles at larger banks or firms is very easy with any sort of finance/economics degree, however a lot of places are open to anyone with any sort of experience in the finance industry. That’s how I got started – just being a receptionist at a smallish firm.

          Job prospects are pretty solid too. The trend in the US has been for more and more regulation. There’s some chance that could change given the current political climate, but globally that’s definitely not the case. Any US companies with international clients or investments often needs to follow those international regulations as well, so even if the US does roll back, there’s still the international regulations to be dealt with. There’s some chance the industry could move from in house to a more consultancy based model, but the SEC seems to be coming down negatively on that, and even if it does, well there were still be plenty of roles – just with consulting companies rather than with finance firms directly.

          1. Nita*

            Would you mind sharing what’s a good place to look for these jobs? I know someone with some finance background, who wants to switch fields and would IMO do great in compliance.

            1. ChachkisGalore*

              Recruiters! Look for recruiting agencies that specialize in Legal & Compliance or that have a dept. focused on Legal & Compliance (Robert Half and JW Michaels are the two that I can think of off the top of my head – I’m in NYC and they were great here, but I think they do have a presence beyond NYC).

              I also had some luck with Glassdoor and LinkedIn job postings – searching for Compliance Analyst, Associate or Officer roles. Also looking for AML or KYC related job titles (anti-money laundering or know your customer) – they’re a specific subset within compliance (usually – sometimes they’re their own dept). There’s various levels, but quite a few are entry level or early level.

              Also – word of mouth from anyone in financial institutions. What I’ve seen happen at both my last company and my current company – they post a compliance role (particularly entry level or if they’re looking for 1-3yrs of experience), they struggle to get candidates with compliance experience, so they’ll informally broaden their requirements to anyone with any sort of financial background. So if you can get someone in the company to forward your resume along you can be considered even if the recruiters or HR working on the role are still holding out for compliance specific experience.

              Not sure how experienced you friend is in general, but as long as they’re open to entry level/early level roles to get their foot in their door they can move up in salary/responsibility level pretty quickly, and as soon as you have something with the word compliance in your title on your resume/linkedin the recruiters will start showing up on their own.

    9. Ashley*

      The building trades are generally desperate. If you can pass a drug test and read a tape measure you are hired.

      1. Llellayena*

        Please be able to read that tape measure though! Reading architectural/structural drawings is a bonus! I’ve had projects where the people in the field couldn’t read the dimensions on the drawings (and not because they were unclear) and it’s makes you start thinking you don’t want to walk into the building when it’s done.

      2. Eccentric Smurf*

        Specialized types of construction are often willing to to hire entry level people without experience in that particular industry and then promote from within because they know people with that exact skillset are rare.

    10. CheeryO*

      My boyfriend is an electrical engineer in the controls/automation field, and recruiters are constantly reaching out to him.

    11. Manders*

      Caretaking jobs (senior care, mental health facilities, etc.) are pretty easy to come by. Unfortunately, it’s a brutally difficult field and workers are rarely ever paid what they deserve.

    12. n*

      The Pudding has a really awesome interactive about what jobs are most likely to be automated in the future. So, it gives some great data-backed information on what jobs are likely to have a lot of positions in the future (so less competitive) and which are not. They have an interactive tool that lets you select different jobs to see the likelihood of automation and the projected job growth. Might be of interest to you! https://pudding.cool/2018/08/retraining/

    13. Nita*

      Repair of building equipment. I’ve seen quite a few ads for boiler and HVAC repair jobs that pay very well, and this can’t be outsourced. I live in a big city, so there are plenty of large buildings with many mechanical systems that need maintenance.

    14. MinotJ*

      Medical Laboratory Tech (in the US). You need a specialized degree (AS or BS) that oddly few schools offer. Once you have it, you can get a job in any decent-sized metropolitan area, and with a year or two under your belt you can go almost wherever you want.

      1. Pilot in Training*

        I’m working on becoming a career pilot now. It is expensive, but it’s not that long a path. I started getting serious about a year and a half ago, and I’m already working on becoming an instructor. I should be done in about three months. After that I’ll teach for about a year and then I’ll have the requirements to start applying for airlines. Overall it’s taking me less time than it took me to get my bachelor’s degree.

  10. Elemeno P.*

    Does anyone else get a bit paranoid about things they do at work after reading some of the things on this blog? I know that the few times I have to cut my nail because it broke, or my lunch is more fragrant out of the microwave than expected, I immediately apologize to all of my cube mates and think about all the letters that could be written of my misdeeds.

        1. Elizabeth Proctor*

          IMO while popcorn has a strong scent it’s not offensive. It depends how open your kitchen is to peoples’ work spaces. But you CANNOT burn it. Rather take out a half-popped bag than be the person who burned popcorn.

          1. This Space For Rent*

            Someone burned popcorn on the floor below us and it filtered up via the vents just yesterday. It was godawful and we were legitimately concerned that something was on fire. Burnt food odors are the worst.

          2. The Original K.*

            One of my former colleagues burned popcorn and we teased her about it for days, which was about how long the smell lingered because there were no windows in the kitchen. (Really in jest, no one was seriously mad. And the whole thing was comical because she was frantically fanning, trying to get rid of the smell.)

            1. Anonymous co-irker*

              For the record don’t burn anything in the microwave at a fire alarm company… our place got evacuated and the popcorn owner still hasn’t fessed up.

          3. Autumnheart*

            I accidentally caused a whole 8-floor building to be evacuated due to burning a bag of popcorn. Worst thing was, it was only a week after someone else had done it on another floor, and I’d said, “Who’s dumb enough not to pay attention to their popcorn?” My karma was set in motion at that moment. Took me a good 4-5 years to own up to it.

          4. Narvo Flieboppen*

            I know I’m in the minority, but the smell of microwave popcorn turns my stomach. So I really don’t appreciate it when people make it down the hall and the whole floor reeks of it for hours later. Might be that they use a cheap/low quality brand of popcorn.

        2. Rey*

          One department in our building has a popcorn machine, and the C suite said that because everyone could smell it, they had to share with everyone. Now we have Popcorn Tuesday!

        3. Need a Beach*

          I worked with a woman who would immediately hurl at the smell of popcorn when she was pregnant. She had four kids, so there was a lot of no-popcorn time at that job.

        4. Kathenus*

          The problem with popcorn, for me, is that if I smell it I want it. So it’s torture when someone makes it in the office. That said, that’s my problem, not theirs. Just means I need to go to the movies that weekend, I guess, because there’s nothing like great, unhealthy, movie theater popcorn :)

        5. Hi*

          I guess. No one at my office would give a crap if you microwaved popcorn or clipped a nail and we were in an extremely luxury industry. I think a lot of people are just incredibly nit picky. If you never ate any of the “banned” office foods that have been mentioned here, you’d literally never eat. Maybe you could eat a banana silently in the stairwell hidden by a blanket.

        6. Friday Anon*

          My company has a strict “no popcorn or fish in the microwave” rule. Our entire building is an open plan (open staircases, open floors), so it’s really for the benefit of everyone. There are so many good options these days for pre-popped popcorn, so I don’t think of it as a big deal.

        7. I Wrote This in the Bathroom*

          Meh, just don’t burn it and you’ll be fine!

          Burned popcorn smell is the worst, though.

      2. Move Over Thrawn - Florian Munteanu is BIGGER than you!*

        I recently discovered what is worse than burnt mic. popcorn at work : almost burnt popcorn AND lemon floor cleaner scent mixed together. It’s excruciatingly horrific.

        1. Autumnheart*

          I’ve got another horrible smell combination for you, courtesy of a retail job back in the day. A Chinese food chain restaurant next to a nail salon.

    4. Dame Judi Brunch*

      Same! None of us are perfect, so I think minor infractions are forgiven.
      However, my coworker microwaved fish yesterday. We are in a mostly open office plan. I’m not over it yet.

      1. Hi*

        I just can’t understand this? People have to eat food and food has a scent! i think its also treading into weird territory. Maybe its their dinner leftovers and they cant afford to buy a new separate mail just to please you. This reminds me of the curry restaurant thing…

      2. Dame Judi Brunch*

        Of course food smells. Reheated fish is universally known to be a no-go in an office. The point is have courtesy for your captive fellow worker bees.
        She could have stayed in the lunch room too instead of bringing it into the work space.

        1. Hi*

          True, I think I’m thinking my office where the kitchen is literally IN the office and also its TINY and we’re packed in here like sardines. So we have become quite tolerant to smells…I wish my co worker didn’t love sardines so much.

    5. xarcady*

      I get paranoid, too. But . . . I also feel you shouldn’t have to apologize for living, i.e. doing perfectly normal, acceptable actions of daily life.

      For example, I drink tea. We have a coffee machine that has a spout for hot water which delivers the hot water very slowly. It takes me longer to stand there and get fill my mug with that hot water than it does for someone to swoop in, grab one of the coffee pots and fill their mug. And the coffee drinker can move away from the coffee machine with the coffee pot and let someone else get to the coffee maker, but tea or hot chocolate drinkers have to stand there, blocking access to the coffee pots, while they are getting their hot water.

      I always feel that I should apologize to a coffee drinker who is standing and waiting for me to finish filling my mug. But I’m really not doing anything wrong! The company has chosen this incredibly slow delivery method for hot water. I’m as much a victim of it as anyone else. So instead of apologizing for making them wait, I’ll make eye contact and make a remark about the weather, or the latest sportsball score, general office small talk. But it is an internal struggle not to apologize.

      It also depends on the number of people affected. Cut a nail once? That is maybe heard in the next cubicle over and seen by no one? Don’t say anything. Unexpectedly smelly food that is wafting its fragrance over 25 cubicles? Maybe nothing, because you won’t bring that in again, or maybe one general statement to the group at large, “Wow, this is more odiferous than I thought!”

      I think it is the repeated inconsideration that some people show to their fellow workers that really bothers people. If you are generally considerate of the people who work near you, the occasional blip probably doesn’t even register with your co-workers.

    6. only acting normal*

      I *loathe* being near someone cutting their nails, it makes my skin crawl. However, I have *zero* objection to someone fixing a broken nail at their desk (even the desk next to me – and we don’t have dividers never mind cubicles). It’s one nail in an emergency, not a full on manicure, go right ahead guilt free.

      1. Seeking Second Childhood*

        So much yes. If someone does something once no biggie. If someone does it more than once and gets asked to stop and doesn’t, that’s where I lose respect.

    7. ThisColumnMakesMeGratefulForMyBoss*

      If you’re thinking enough about your co-workers to be concerned that you could be the subject of a letter to the blog, that tells me that you’re a considerate person with common courtesy for other humans and if anyone were to write in about something you’ve done, they’re the unreasonable one and someone who would complain about everything.

    8. CupcakeCounter*

      Yup. The “coworker talks too much” is one I relate to except my coworkers are good about telling me to shut it when needed (and I listen).
      Recently the “sex noises” one freaked me out because I was doing a lot of sighing, moaning (in exasperation not pleasure), and whispered cursing because of a major issue.

    10. Inveterate Fish Microwaver*

      For what it’s worth, people at my office microwave fish in the staff lounge all the time. No one has ever commented. In my department, it’s pretty common to eat at your desk, too. I wouldn’t clip my nails there, but food? Meh. No one cares. This stuff really depends on your office culture- my firm has a pretty diverse set of employees, many of whom bring homecooked traditional foods, and no one ever seems to have a problem with that. For my part, I have strong aversions to certain “normal” North American foods (broccoli with cheese, cheetos, Smartfood popcorn), but I don’t complain when people eat those near me, either.

    11. I Wrote This in the Bathroom*

      Yes! I am now paranoid about applying makeup in the bathroom at the end of a day if I go out after work; because I read it on here that it’s inconsiderate of the colleagues who are just trying to pee.

      But I am also now paranoid about applying the makeup at my desk, because that’s inconsiderate of my colleagues that are trying to work.

      Right now I have a tw0-person office with a door and the officemate who leaves earlier than I do, so there’s a workaround.

    12. Not So NewReader*

      Honestly, I think that everything can tick someone off some where.
      I think the most important thing to counter-balance feeling paranoid is to just strengthen one’s resolve to simply apologize for the action and then don’t do it again.

      Some of the strongest most impressive people I have met are the ones who are able to say, “Oh gosh. You’re right. That fish in the microwave is super smelly. I am sorry, I won’t do that again.” And it never happened again. They said this and followed up without meltdowns or losing entire parts of themselves. Instead, they were confident in the sincerity of their apology and they were committed to making a change.

      If you follow along with the stories you read here at least 50% of the time NO ONE has told the offender to stop. They have a thousand reasons for not telling the offender. The story drags on for days/weeks/months and finally the whole workplace is upset but no one will say anything. The offender is probably more embarrassed about the prolonged drama than being told directly not to do something.

      I have done enough supervising and training to see that most people are pretty awesome. Most people will respond in a positive manner when told to change what they are doing. It’s a one-on-one conversation, no need to involve five people. And you can talk in a tone that is explanatory. “We don’t microwave fish here because of the vents and the air circulation system. The smell just goes all over very quickly.” Explanations help the person to feel included, “here’s what we are doing and here is why”. It’s very easy to say, “Oh, okay. That makes sense. I won’t do it again.”

    13. Workaholic*

      I file my nails at work. Though i justify it because I’m in a cubicle, and do it while sitting on hold. I cringed a bit after reading about it here.

  11. Shelly*

    My office is reorganizing in the next month, and both my supervisor and I will have the chance to move up. She has mentioned several times in private conversations that she is paid less than others in the office with the same experience and responsibilities (and yes, she is a minority woman). Is there a direct way that I can include her salary negotiations in my own? I keep thinking of actors who have stood up for the salary of their female costars, but I don’t know how that would work in a professional setting if we aren’t in C-suites. Any ideas?

    1. Artemesia*

      I don’t think a subordinate can do that. She needs to fight her own battle on this. You could say something nice about her work with you in passing but it undercuts her to have a subordinate negotiate money on her behalf. Her manager can do it; you can’t.

      1. Sam.*

        Completely agree. This kind of thing only works if the person making demands has sway in that environment. Unless you’re a complete superstar and the company will do anything to keep and elevate you, this isn’t something you have the authority to do, unfortunately.

    2. Jules the 3rd*

      No. You really can’t discuss your boss’s salary in your negotiations unless you’re part of a union. If you were her boss, you might have some standing to do it, but not as her report.
      You *might* be able to mention (once!) that you hope they’re taking this opportunity to review parity across gender and race, just in case, since disparities have a way of causing problems for the company.

      What you definitely can do is support her directly, if she’s ok with it:
      Agree with her that she should be getting the same as others with similar experience and responsibilities.
      Help her document what her pay should be.
      – be careful to use sources that your company won’t ding you for using – forbidding discussion of coworker salaries is iirc not legal in the US, but companies do it all the time anyway
      – There should be public sources for her role / area that she can bring in
      Review the stuff Alison has on negotiation with her.
      Role play negotiation with her.

    3. Shelly*

      Thanks everyone! I don’t have a lot of professional experience, and I’m grateful for you pointing me in the right direction instead of charging in and making things worse.

  12. Tigger*

    The post on Thursday got me thinking- what was the career/ degree that was your dream and what is your career now? Are they in a similar field?

      1. Tigger*

        Not meaning to pry, but what subject do you teach? I feel like art history and the history subject somewhat are parallel because nothing happens in a vacuum (granted I don’t know much about art history so I am sorry if that comes off too simplistic)

          1. knitter*

            That said, I do think my degree helps me be successful in special education. Studying art you have to keep in mind historical, political, religious, etc events/iconography/beliefs to be able to analyze. Similarly with special ed, to be successful, I have to weigh a number of different concepts/facts/skills when making a decision…and I also get roped in to chaperoning art field trips…

      2. Auntie Social*

        My daughter has an art history degree, and teaches history now. She shows kids that you can tell what countries had money by their art–kind of who was in charge of the world–and which were undergoing a big change. The Dutch had tulip mega money, so they had enough coin to pay for portraits, so–Rembrandt. Art is lovely, but art is also “show me the money!”

      3. Miley Hemsworth*

        I wanted to be a journalist, or an interior designer, I started college to be a history teacher.

        I am a bookkeeper.

        :P

    3. WeirdlyQualified*

      My dream was to be a staff scientist at a national observatory with a PhD. I got the PhD, but I’ve been a software developer for over two decades now in a variety of industries. The similarity is that scientists in my original field are always writing their own software so that part of my daily work is the same; the difference is that software developers are in much higher demand and rarely have to beg for a job (although being older and female is challenging for sure).

    5. Spreadsheets and Books*

      No. My undergrad is in creative writing. Writing novels has been my dream since I wrote my first story at 4 years old.

      Then I got a Master of Accounting because jobs in writing are not plentiful and do not tend to be lucrative. I work in finance now and I truly do like what I do.

      1. Bostonian*

        +1!

        I wanted to be a novel writer and even got an English degree because I love reading and writing. I also went a more practical route, but really like what I do!

      2. Jenn*

        Do you recommend a Master of Accounting as the best step towards a second career in accounting? Someone I know decided to get a second bachelors in accounting for his second career as an accountant. Thanks!

        1. Spreadsheets and Books*

          Late, but yes. A second Bachelor’s is a pretty drawn out way to get the same benefits, and most MAcc programs will still prepare you for the CPA if you want to go that route. You can do a MAcc in a year or two in a pretty streamlined way, but I’d imaging another BA at a different school will take significantly longer.

    7. ChiliBaby*

      I got a degree in geology, thought I wanted to be a geologist, became one and hated it! But I specialized in mapping and now I work as a geospatial analyst for police departments, which is the best job I’ve ever had.

      1. Tigger*

        Oh wow that is super interesting! Is that like studying the soil and rocks found on shoes and car tires and matching it to an exact location?

      2. Aj*

        Same here! Geology major who switched to GIS. Once I realized geology wasnt going to pay the bills in my high COL area, I was able to pivot into the tech industry through geospatial analysis. I always loved the remote sensing and map making part of geology and was able to draw on some of that undergrad experience to make the switch.

    8. Natalie*

      I wanted to be a Nellie Bly-style globetrotting reporter. I’m an accountant now.

      They’re not at all close on the surface, but the reason I like both is basically identical – I’m nosy and I like to dabble. I’ve done accounting work in manufacturing, building trades, small business, real estate & insurance, and now a social services NFP. And I get to see so much about how a company functions from the finances, both high level and day to day, so it feeds my love of knowing everything that’s going on.

      1. Tigger*

        It is interesting that you are feeding your love of knowledge and knowing your surroundings into a totally different field!

      2. Alice*

        I always thought that forensic accounting must be such a badass career. There should be thriller tv series about it.

    10. Minerva McGonagall*

      All through elementary school I wanted to be a veterinarian. Then bounced around to journalist, writer, actor, high school teacher. I got a BA in History, an M.Ed., and ended up working in higher ed.

      1. Sloan Kittering*

        It’s funny, a lot of my friends started out wanting to be vets because they loved animals. But then as they tried it out, they realized it’s helpful to love SCIENCE more than animals – they struggled being around animals that were suffering/in pain/unhappy so much of the time, didn’t like doing surgery on them, or putting them to sleep. Most of them ended up going into other fields, unless they also had a passion for science.

    11. Seifer*

      Ahaha. No. I dropped out of art school to become an engineer and now I work in construction. But I love my job now in a way that I don’t think I would’ve loved working being an illustrator.

    12. Need a Beach*

      I dreamed of being a veterinarian.

      In reality, I flunked out of freshman chemistry. I now have a grad degree in IT and work in industry.

      I’m good with it, because even if I’d done well in school, my heart could not take it. I cry at animal rescue videos on the regular.

    13. xarcady*

      Double major in English and Communications. I’m an editor for an educational publisher, not the professor of medieval English I once wanted to be. I like my job.

      Have also worked in libraries and taught English, as well as worked for a theater company and a industry trade association doing some marketing.

    14. AnotherAlison*

      When I was a little kid, I wanted to be a cartoonist/greeting card writer. In early high school, I wanted to be a genetic engineer. This was in the early 90s when that was not something any regular guidance counselors knew anything about, and it turns out biology and chemistry were my least favorite sciences, so this wasn’t my dream after all and I went into mechanical engineering as my first college major in 1996. It’s 2019 and I’m a project manager in engineering and construction. So, yes and no?

      [I do write a sh*t-ton of proposals and make conceptual engineering drawings that we call “cartoons”. . .does that count as fulfilling my childhood dreams?]

    15. Meh*

      Thought I wanted to make animated movies/tv shows. Now I do video editing for a community college. So it’s sort of related, but far less stressful and I get paid better as well.

    16. Cookie Monster*

      I have a degree in guitar performance and I am a VP at a bank. I actually love my job and it is certainly more lucrative than what I would (most likely) be making playing music. Also, I teach guitar lessons out of the board room at work, 1 night a week, to any of our employees who are interested and thus we have the distinction of being (probably) the only financial institution that has a guitar department.

      1. Tigger*

        How did you get into the Finance field? My impression is that if you don’t have a degree it is very hard to get your foot in the door

        1. Auddish*

          Anecdotally – my best friend used to work for a major US bank. She applied as a teller while taking community college classes, and worked as a teller for a few years before being promoted to positions with increasing responsibility until she became the bank manager. The bank also paid for a chunk of her college classes while she climbed the ranks. I know most of the tellers she worked with didn’t have a degree, and a few of them still received promotions into relationship manager roles without college. Another friend also accepted a teller job at a bank for $25/hr based on his customer service experience with no degree.

    17. Jules the 3rd*

      Nope! Dream: POTUS or city manager Current career: Supply chain

      They are similar in that the appeal of both is ‘solving problems’, but the problems I chase now are very different from the ones I dreamed of chasing. I do write letters to my legislators every week, but my Congressman is on top of the issues I care about, and my Senators are opposed to them, so I’m planning to ramp up volunteering for a Senatorial campaign next year.

    18. A. Ham*

      The “you’ll never get a job, or make any money” Theater Major checking in :-)
      I am lucky enough to still work in the industry that I have been passionate about my whole life. And I do put an emphasis on “lucky”. I was not the most talented person in my graduating class, but am one of only 2 that is still in the business 12 years after graduation.
      I have worked on the admin/marketing side of the theater business for all of those 12 years. I have a steady paycheck in a job and industry that I love, AND I also still get to stretch my on-stage artistic muscles every once in a while with side projects at community theaters and such. It is not an easy industry to get into, no matter which side of the stage you are on. I am very fortunate.

      2. City Girl*

        My first internship was a marketing intern at my university’s theater dept! Congrats for being one of the “lucky” ones.

      3. Uta Hagen*

        Fellow theatre major here! Have worked in theatre my whole career as a director and teacher. I always tell my younger relatives that it’s not normal that I knew what I wanted to do when I was young, and never had another idea, but I love what I do.

      4. Submerged Tenths*

        Wow! Congratulations :-}
        I went back to school in my 50s to pursue the theater degree (BFA Costume Design) that I didn’t get when I should have. Now I make a living in printing –have for 30 plus years — and do volunteer/paid summer program at local theaters. What I do know is that anyone wanting to make a career in the arts must major in hustle, even if they have all the talent in the world. I am far too lazy.

      5. Polyhymnia O'Keefe*

        Another theatre major here! I did a general theatre undergrad and then got my masters in Producing after realizing that my first love is getting the stuff onstage. I work in the performing arts industry now — not professional theatre, but very closely related — and I use my degree every day. It’s definitely easier to find a full-time, permanent job in arts admin than it is as a performer, where you’re more likely to be working on contract for multiple companies depending on casting.

        I’m also lucky, though, that I work with so many people who have followed their passions and made them a career. Some as part-time contracts with other jobs, some as full-time artists who put all the pieces together to make a living. I get the need to be practical, but I will defend to the death the importance of people who undertake the “impractical” cultural work of the arts.

    19. KayEss*

      I went through a few “dream” careers:

      – When I was in high school, I wanted very badly to be a 2D animator and work for Disney. Fortunately I realized that a) this was ridiculous, because it was 2004 and Disney was already clearly not making any more of the kind of traditional animated movies I dreamed of working on, and b) I wasn’t actually skilled enough to follow the highly-competitive educational track an animation career with anyone in the industry at all, much less Disney, requires. So I went to school to be an…
      – Illustrator (and/or graphic designer, it was a combined program). I was going to do amazing drawings for beloved children’s books! Then I found out that a) available illustration work is actually like 80% editorial and I’m not great at that and hate it, and b) you have to have about 300% more hustle than I am capable of mustering in order to make a living as a freelancer. So when I graduated, I started focusing on becoming a…
      – Concept artist for video games. Yeah, I know. I saved the one with the most competition and worst working conditions for last. I spent five years of misery making an attempt at (extremely unnecessary) grad school and other continuing art education while working a mediocre graphic and web design job. What I got was literally zero responses to applications, lukewarm-to-chilly reception of my portfolio at industry events, and a general rising panic over the increasing gap between me and my now-years of irrelevant experience at a dead-end job versus the fresh-faced kids coming out of game dev schools with completed projects under their belts. I felt like the entire industry was gaslighting me. I developed pretty severe depression that did not start to get better (despite treatment) until I had what amounted to a mental breakdown, quit my grad school program, and gave myself permission to wash my hands of the whole enterprise for one year, at which point I would re-evaluate. Which was really a personal face-saving measure, because in the cold, heavily-medicated light of day I could see that a) I wasn’t skilled enough to compete, and b) the working conditions that are normal in the industry–combined with the mental health issues that were now my reality–would either prevent me from ever being even moderately successful or literally kill me. And I never went back.

      That last one took a lot of grieving to get over. What helped a lot was those five years of experience at the “interim” job I’d held, which let me pivot into a career in web design work. (That I’m gradually transitioning into being development-focused, instead. Developers: paid WAY more than designers and required to deal with less BS. Who would have thought the janky HTML I taught myself with a GeoCities site back in middle school would wind up being my most profitable skill?) My job is still creative and uses the skills I went to school for and enjoyed then and now. I still draw, but on my own terms as a hobby. Overall I’ve been very lucky, especially considering I graduated at the tail end of the recession.

    20. wandering_beagle*

      Journalism degree – worked at various newspapers as a reporter and editor for about 5 years straight out of school. Definitely had a sense of loss when I realized I had to leave that dream behind because it was hindering my *other* personal goals of being financially stable, having a family, etc. I worked a couple jobs in municipal government after that, but have ended up as an IT project manager in the corporate world.

    21. slightly anon for this*

      My dream was, and still is, to do Japanese-English translation work but I had to leave university for health reasons.

      Now I’m on assistance and basically just play video games all day. I do play a lot of Persona & Final Fantasy though, so they are perhaps somewhat similar fields, ha.

    22. Bunny Girl*

      All growing up I wanted to be a zoologist, and then in high school I decided I wanted to do Special Effects Make-up. I went to trade school for it and then quickly realized I don’t have the personality to work in that field. So I bounced around a little bit and I started back to school a few years ago to work in fish and wildlife. I’m still working on my degree but it’s close to my childhood dream. LoL

      1. [insert witty username here]*

        If you don’t mind sharing, what was it more specifically that deterred you from the sfx makeup field?

        1. Bunny Girl*

          It’s insanely competitive for one. But also, you need to be able to work with a lot of people and be able to put yourself out there and that just isn’t me. I’m extremely introverted and I just don’t really enjoy being around people all that much. I’m not sure why I didn’t think that would be an issue going in, but it was and I just knew I didn’t want to turn my hobby into a career.

    23. KayEss*

      Oh, also my favorite secondhand story on this topic: one of my college dormmates started out in archaeology, quickly discovered that it’s a lot less Indiana Jones whip-cracking adventures and a lot more desperate grant writing and was understandably not interested in that, transitioned majors first into classics and then bounced through a few others, wound up graduating with a degree in philosophy and no idea what he was going to do with it… and is now somehow a reasonably successful lawyer.

      1. Adminx2*

        Yeah philosophers transition to lawyers really easy. Hilarious he went from arch to CLASSICS as if that was any less tedium!

    24. roisin54*

      I’m an English major who started out in college wanting to be a writer and is now a librarian, and even that changed. I originally wanted to work in academia but the job market when I finished grad school basically made that impossible (it was a high supply/low demand situation on the cusp of a recession.) So I eventually wound up in a public/research library hybrid as a specialist reference librarian.

      However, the writing skills come in handy. We answer a lot of questions via email and I’m also in charge of my department’s FB page. I’ve gotten many compliments on my FB posts, and my supervisors always note in my evaluations how well-written my responses to reference questions are. English degrees are not useless y’all!

    25. [insert witty username here]*

      TL;DR I was an education major in college, am now working as a project controller, and I’ve realized lately my dream job is to be a stay at home dog mom.

      I never really had a “dream” career. I was always interested in something with animals, but I knew I was too emotional to be a vet (not saying vets aren’t emotional – I just know that would be really hard for me personally to overcome). I was interested in something medical…. but also a little too grossed out to make it a profession. I always liked teaching, I loved my government classes in high school, and I loved working with our athletic trainer in HS, so on my college application (for the school I went to), it asked for “intended major” or “intended interest” or something like that, so I put elementary education, public policy, and athletic training. Apparently, in that order. Because when my acceptance came, it said “Congratulations! You have been accepted to your dream college’s school of education!” And since the elementary ed program at this school was kind of competitive to get into, I went with it! By senior year when I was student teaching, I knew it wasn’t for me, but also that I needed to graduate on time and it was way too late to change majors. So I have an elementary education degree 13 years out of school and have never (professionally) taught a day in my life. I’m now a project controller for a gov’t contractor. I NEVER wanted to get a business degree (I always thought it wouldn’t interest me or I wouldn’t be good at it), but now I so wish I had (don’t really have any desire to get an MBA though…. I think the school-ship has sailed, if you will)! I generally like my work and my job (it’s like putting a puzzle together and it just seems pretty common sense to me) but …. I definitely wouldn’t do it if I didn’t get paid and I don’t really get an fulfillment out of it, other than the satisfaction of doing a good job and being pretty good at what I do. *shrugs* Life could be MUCH worse.

    26. No Tribble At All*

      Dream career: found Starfleet
      Degree: Aerospace engineering
      Career now (4 years experience): spacecraft systems engineering & operations

      It’s weird though, I achieved my realistic goal (“Cool space industry job”) and have no idea what to do next. So far I’m basing it on which coworkers would be on my team, which I suppose is as good as any reason to pick a specialization?

    27. Sammie*

      Super rich and famous novelist (ahahaha) –> started studying to be a psychologist (with writing on the side) —> after much flapping about, am now an administrator with a love for data security and making processes work faster. I am remarkably happy with where I ended up.

    28. ThisColumnMakesMeGratefulForMyBoss*

      My manager and I were just talking about this, because it seems that most of the people I encounter are not working in the field they studied in college. She was a theater major, and has been in and IT Supervisory position for most of her career. I went to school to be a developer and I did that for 7 years. I’ve since moved on to being a Business Analyst and now a Project Manager, but have stayed in the IT field.

    30. ThatGirl*

      Communications/newswriting & editing — now a “digital communications specialist” in customer service for a household brand.

      So…. soooorrrt of related but not journalism at all.

    31. Middle Manager*

      Dream: Pastor or Psychologist
      Current Career: Government Bureaucrat (in mental health, so not entirely off in left field for my psychology degree)

    32. There's Always Money in the Banana Stand*

      I majored in marketing, and had intentions of getting into copywriting and/or advertising. ( I love to write!)

      I currently have two jobs: I am full time loan officer, and a part time pastor. I never imagined myself doing either of these things. But, I do get to write as a pastor, which I love, and writing sermons is a lot of interesting to me than I think advertising or copywriting would have been.

    33. AnonyNurse*

      As a kid: statistician (??) and “marine psychologist.” I wanted to understand dolphins.
      High school: fell in love with theatre stage management
      College: started at a fancy theatre conservatory as a stage manager. Woke up one day in my third year and was just over it. Dropped out. Never looked back.
      Moved. Finished a degree in sociology. Bounced around.
      Got a degree in nursing seven years later.
      Bounced around.
      Got into public health. Finally found my place. Developing more data skills.
      Looking into PhDs in … epidemiology and biostats. Come full circle!
      Also, I’ve done some volunteer work with pinnipeds. Not quite cetaceans, but super fun and we def talked about their feelings. :)

    34. Crylo Ren*

      I wanted to be a librarian.
      I’ve been working in various areas of marketing (1/3 career in events marketing, 2/3 in digital marketing) and am working towards a graduate certificate in business analytics.

    35. Lilysparrow*

      My degree was in theater. Now I write fiction and freelance in digital content marketing.

      Mostly because I got fed up with spending so much time around other actors (God, they’re tiring) and wanted to eat food.

    36. CheeryO*

      As a kid/teen, I wanted to be a teacher and then a psychologist. I switched majors from psych to environmental engineering right before I started college, and even though it’s a lot more paper pushing and less stomping around the woods than I was picturing as an 18-year-old, it’s a pretty cool field and I’m definitely happy I made the switch. I would have been a terrible teacher and worse psychologist!

    37. Justin*

      Child dream – subway conductor (I’m a nerd from NYC, so)
      College major (and goal) – English (fiction writer)
      Actual career – English (as in the language) teacher originally, now employee trainer, going back to TESOL world whenever the next job occurs, also getting doctorate in education

      But I’m not publishing any novels or screenplays, most likely, unless it’s just for fun under a pseudonym.

    38. Manders*

      Career I thought I’d have up til college: Tenured humanities professor. Both my parents are tenured professors so it seemed like a reasonable option to me. Fortunately, my favorite teacher in undergrad was an adjunct professor who really got shafted by the school, so I realized I didn’t want that kind of life before I even had the chance to apply for grad schools.

      Career I have now: Digital marketing. It wasn’t talked about in college (we had no business program and the school refused to have any kind of business writing or marketing classes), which turned out all right, because my field is so new and changes so rapidly I don’t think a professor would have done a good job of teaching it. It turns out I really like having a metrics-driven job.

      Dream career: Full-time author. I probably could have tried harder for this, but I realized early on that I don’t really like being a copywriter to supplement my income and I don’t like the instability of freelancing in an expensive area. I still write on the side, but my day job gives me enough stability that I can write what I want instead of what I believe will sell. And I do think the skills I’m picking up now as a marketer will come in handy when I start self-publishing.

      1. Manders*

        Oh, I also went through a phase of wanting to be an editor at a publishing house. I graduated in 2011, when some people were actually paying to be allowed to intern in desirable areas, and moved to an area where most of the publishing companies are really small and niche labors of love. It sucked believing I’d “given up on my dream” for a few years but I really do not regret it now.

        My only real career regret is that I spent a few years too long in a crappy admin job. I did write a few novels on the company’s dime, since a lot of it was just sitting and waiting by the phone, but I developed some bad habits working for a boss who pitched fits and hired his kids.

        1. londonedit*

          Incredibly late responding, but editor at a publishing house is exactly what I do. I’m fortunate to have graduated in 2003, while there were still a good few small independent publishing companies around, and as a result of signing up with a temping agency I managed to get myself a job on the reception desk with a very small, but successful, publisher. Then they needed a new editorial assistant, and I was there and they knew me, so I threw my hat into the ring and got the job. Still in publishing 15 years later.

          When I was a child, I wanted to be either a writer or a scientist. Then I got to secondary school and realised I was rubbish at most of the sciences (and it all involved way too much maths for my liking). My two favourite subjects were art and English, and I figured that an English degree would be marginally more use than an art degree, and also figured out that working in publishing would be slightly more stable and lucrative than being a writer. So I do actually use my degree for something related!

    39. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

      I wanted to be an academic archaeologist, but realised that academia was not for me. So I work as a field archaeologist instead. It’s seriously underpaid and I don’t really have any advancement opportunities at the moment, but I am at least working in my dream field.

      1. DataGirl*

        I wanted to be an archaeologist, but I stupidly picked a college that didn’t have an archaeology major (just anthropology). So I studied history instead, which was totally useless, then got an LIS degree, which was also mostly useless. I still get sad when I read articles like about the WWII warship that was just found and wish I was out there in the world, doing things.

        1. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

          Did you not have any archaeology courses? Both my BA and MA are in anthropology. I never realised it could be a separate department until I came to the UK!

          In any case if you are still interested it might be worth looking for volunteer opportunities. I know a couple of people who got into a job that way, though it really is terribly underpaid. At least in the UK.

          1. DataGirl*

            They May have had a couple classes but I don’t remember taking any. I minored in Anthropology but I had more credits in history classes so it was easier to major in that. I often think of going back to school for another degree but I feel too old for a new career (40’s). And I have to confess I’m used to the money in IT now, it would be hard to take such a big pay cut.

            1. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

              Yeah, the pay cut would be pretty drastic! But I see lots of much older volunteers on community digs, and I’m mid-forties myself. So if you want to do a bit for fun it’s definitely a thing you can do.

    40. DataGirl*

      My degree is in Library Science and my goal was to be an academic librarian. But no one told me until I was graduating that I’d need a second Master’s for that, plus the field is incredibly competitive. So now I work in IT. I like IT, but I hate business. Lately I’ve been wondering a lot why I didn’t pick a career that allowed me to DO something, rather than sit in an office all day.

      1. Alice*

        If you want to get out of business, would library IT at a big university library system work? There would still be lots of office though….

    41. pony tailed wonder*

      I wanted to be a baker and it didn’t work out because I never really thought I was good enough to earn money at it. I watch the Food Network and realize that I was right to not pursue it, you really have to have artistic talent and great hand/eye coordination for decorating and I don’t have that.

      I also wanted to write Harlequin romance novels. I still aspire to do that and my SO and I have fun practicing romance in preparation for that.

      I work in a library and every time I tell people that they usually say that I have the perfect voice for that (???).

    42. CaddyGirl67*

      I really wanted to be an Astronaut… attempted multiple internships at NASA while I was in Engineering school. It’s not the same, but I’m happy in my role as a Director of Engineering. As a woman in the field, there aren’t too many people like me but I’m hoping to help influence the next generation.

    43. LCS*

      I have an honors history degree. I currently manage a maintenance team at an oil refinery (and got there via stints in finance and supply chain). Definitely a non-traditional career progression! That said, history was never the path to the “dream job” – I had no idea what I wanted to do when I grew up so it was more a case of “a degree opens doors, might as well spend 4 years doing something you enjoy, and then figure it out after that”.

    44. Child at Heart*

      9yo me: I want to be a writer! I have so many ideas and everyone tells me I write well!
      19yo me: Well my creative writing professor sucks. Alright, over to a plain English degree. They’re so versatile anyway; maybe I’ll be an admin assistant
      22yo me: Ugh it’s been 4 months since I graduated and nobody is hiring for anything! I’ll take a job as a lunchroom assistant in a local public elementary school. Hey, I really like being with kids. But I don’t really enjoy the standard way of teaching…
      23yo me: After much soul searching I wenr back to my roots and have looked into Montessori education. This feels right!
      24yo me: I have my Montessori certification, I adore my kids and coworkers, and I genuinely feel good about my job. Oh, there’s a weekly newsletter? I wanna write it! I have so many ideas and people tell me I’m really good at writing!

    45. Catleesi*

      Once I studied abroad during undergrad I really wanted to be a study abroad advisor, but went down a different path. I always thought about it though. So after 10 years I went back, got my master’s in a relevant field and now I’m working in study abroad.

      So, yes they are in a similar field. Pay isn’t great and it was hard to start from scratch, but it’s nice to love my job.

    46. Inveterate Fish Microwaver*

      Dream career in high school: professional singer-songwriter (lol)

      Dream career in undergrad: subject area librarian in [ethnic group] studies

      Actual career: corporate research librarian

      Honestly, I’m pretty happy about it. I’m still early career (2 years in) and I have no idea where life will take me. But for now this is really good! I have a decent salary (below standard, but I’m going to renegotiate later this year), benefits, and am working in the field I got my master’s in. By any reasonable standard, success!

    47. Aggretsuko*

      I never had a career dream, but I fell into reporting in college and loved it.

      Now I am an admin assistant.

      Sigh.

    48. International Ed Anon*

      Dream – Successful Novelist (HA!)/Professor
      Reality – International Education Coordinator

      I knew I wanted to write when I was like 5 years old, and I pursued that through grad school with an MFA in Creative Writing. While I was doing that, though, I was falling into jobs at each university’s study abroad/international student office. When I graduated, even though I wanted to teach full-time, I applied to jobs in international ed and was hired before I even completed my degree. It’s a MUCH better job market, with a lot of room to grow.

      It turns out that everything I loved about teaching (guiding students to success, designing or finding unique learning activities), I love about international education. I teach part-time at the local CC, which scratches that front-of-the-classroom itch and summers are sort of slow enough that I’m not too tired to work on my writing when I get home. It turns out that I have no interest in pursuing tenure-track positions, which is probably for the best!

    49. DBA*

      Dream job of linguistics professor, master’s degree in linguistics, ended up in IT as a Business Intelligence Developer/Data Engineer with a master’s in computing. I love my job, I am playing with data but in a different way.

    50. Small but Fierce*

      I’m probably going to out myself since I have a censored version of what I do up this page, but I’m not that concerned. :)

      I dreamed of being a professional singer most of my life. I got degrees in Opera Performance (for fun) and Marketing (for practicality). Ironically, the latter is what helped me graduate with honors – advanced music theory isn’t for the weak. While I was able to get paid vocal work throughout college, it wasn’t enough for the kind of lifestyle I wanted.

      I’ve worked in marketing most of my career, and my current role deals more with project/product management. I’ve worked primarily for healthcare and engineering companies. I like the idea of doing marketing for a theater or music label, but the pay is more competitive in the industries I’ve found myself in. I get to enjoy going to the theater with my salary, but I still would much rather be in a musical than watch one. Luckily, there’s still community theater.

    52. Chutzpah*

      Haha yeah no.
      Dream job growing up: working with Jim Henson on the Muppets

      Degree: Masters in EDU (English, drama and speech)

      Job: international sugarcraft instructor

    53. Best cat in the world*

      I wanted to be a teacher, and then a forensic scientist, and then a research scientist.

      I’m now just over 6 months from qualifying as a paramedic (and that is coming up scarily fast!) and I love my job. I might look at going into training one day, and I definitely will get involved in any research I can, but that’s not my main goal. Interestingly, despite spending the first 20 or so years of my life wanting to be in a nice warm, safe job environment, my career goal now involves precarious positions and lots of different safety suits!!

    54. So Anon For This*

      Dream job: Biology professor
      Current job: Disabled SAHM

      I got my Ph.D., worked my tail off, and finally landed a sweet tenure-track position about a year before I became too disabled to work (chronic degenerative illness). It took awhile to adjust, to say the least. I still find AAM useful, however, because it has good interpersonal advice and I’m socially awkward.

    55. Away Team Redshirt*

      I dreamed of being a whale trainer.
      I have a degree in primatology
      I work as an informal trustee (finance)

      So, my education and the way I earn a living are connected by a very stretchy elastic band of experiences. Technically, humans are a type of primate that happens to have complex societies involving money so here I am? Though I’m not the next Dr. Jane Goodall, I enjoy my work very much.

    56. tealeaf*

      English literature major –> IT career (hated it) –> Technical writer (hate it less, but hate it). I’m tired and burnt out, and often too tired to work on my true passions (fiction and comics).

      (Btw, great discussion topic!)

    57. Mimmy*

      Dream career in the 2000s: Social worker working with people with disabilities or in a rehab setting

      Current career: Keyboarding instructor for blind & visually impaired adults who have a vocational goal (school or work).

      When I first started two years ago, my supervisor and some colleagues said I could use my social work skills while engaging with students. I scoffed at the idea at first, but I have connected well with our students and the social work skills do occasionally come in handy. Also similar is the fact that I’m working with people with disabilities as I had wanted. However, it is by no means where I want to stay.

      For the longest time, I felt ashamed that I couldn’t get a foothold in the social work field. However, I’ve slowly learned to accept that sometimes things take an unexpected turn. My core interests are the same but what I want to do have changed.

    58. Workaholic*

      At what age? I wanted to be a rollerskating waitress and a kindergarten teacher when i was 6 :)

      In high school i wanted to be a linguist, archaeologist, librarian, artist.

      Higher education: business, accounting, minor in anthropology. I work in an accounts payable roll. While it’s not my dream job – it feeds my anal retentive control freak tendencies, and I’ve lucked out and all my bosses have stepped back and let me run. I want to learn, do… they let me.

    59. Used to be a dancer*

      Dropped out of dance college when I got injured – though to be honest it was not the best year even before that point, the teachers were horrific (like, mean and confidence destroying) and I felt pretty out of place.

      Did a maths degree instead and now work in software. I still did a tonne of dance at uni and a some, though not as much as I would in a perfect world, now. Ive been working 4 years and I probably make 2-3 times what I would earn as a dancer or dance teacher, so… there are advantages too haha.

    60. AJ*

      Dream career since childhood: TV Writer (the prestige-drama kind)
      Current career: Same!

      I went to film school and spent over half a decade in crappy jobs trying to break out of PA and swimming-with-sharks assistant gigs, but I made it!

    62. FroschKugel*

      TL;DR Wanted to do law, ended up doing law, but in a different jurisdiction and different area.

      I decided in highschool that I wanted to be a judge. I can’t even remember why. But I went to law school and it went surprisingly well. And shortly before finishing school, I realised that I absolutely didn’t want to become a judge or even work in law. I hated my internships, the work environment, tedious legal arguments, everything.
      But I also didn’t know what else to do. So I moved abroad and did a totally unrelated masters degree. And then I never moved back. And decided that I’m actually quite good at that law thing. So I did a second law degree in this jurisdiction (and spent in total 11 years continously enrolled in one university or other) and am now a qualified solicitor in the UK. I work in a niche which does not exist in my home country (I mostly represent children and young people in prison – other countries do not send children to prison, so there would be no need for me) and am really enjoying my work.

    63. Katy*

      Childhood dream: Teacher
      Career goal until grad school: Philosophy professor
      Now I do: Digital marketing. And actually, I love it! I took a lot of writing-focused classes in college, and turns out there IS at least one field where they will pay you for good writing.

  13. KayEss*

    Is there a way to ask whether your employer has an EAP available without outing yourself to HR as needing therapy?

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      Did you check resources like the employee handbook or intranet site? Can you ask for those rather than specifically for the EAP? Also I think sometimes it’s in the insurance package – go back and look over those documents?

      1. KayEss*

        I don’t remember seeing it in the handbook, but I’ll check again. I kind of suspect they don’t have one, since it’s a relatively small company (not small-business small, but… small).

        The problem I’m having is we’re small enough and I’m friendly enough with the two HR people at my location that I’m uncomfortable about the lack of distance… if we were larger and I didn’t have daily “hello friendly human how is your day going” contact with them I’d feel okay just calling/emailing and asking about it because I’d feel more anonymous.

        1. Adminx2*

          That is tough but you can couch it perhaps in a bigger conversation? “Hey I was collecting my paperwork the other day and evaluating next years insurance options, do we have an EAP or plan to get one? I know a lot of places do that.”
          Tricky though, good luck!

        2. AMT27*

          Our EAP is part of the life insurance policy the company provides, its not an additional service they source/pay for. It includes therapy but also advice and help on a variety of topics including funeral planning, estate planning, divorce, travel emergencies – I’d ask broadly, do you have an EAP and what’s included?

    2. fork and spoon*

      Often, the EAP is a range of programs. At mine, it includes legal assistance and help finding childcare, as well as therapy. It should be simple enough to ask what the range of services are provided under EAP, without drilling down to therapy.

      1. n*

        Yup, second this. EAP is not just for therapy. It can be for a range of things, like those mentioned above, or even things just like, eating healthy, smoking cessation, eldercare, estate planning, general work-life balance stuff. So, HR probably won’t automatically assume it’s for therapy specifically.

    3. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

      Usually the mental/behavioral health part of the EAP is handled through your health insurance, so you can try contacting the insurance provider directly.

    4. Washi*

      I found out the details of my job’s EAP by using the “live chat” option on my insurance’s website. (Where you IM with either a humanoid bot or a very scripted human, can’t tell the difference tbh.)

      I think I was like – does my job’s EAP give me any free therapy sessions? And after some back and forth where I gave it some more information, it gave me a referral number to give along with my insurance so I got 3 free sessions!

    5. JustAskingForAFriend*

      Seconding what Countess Boochie Flagrante said. I recently started using my company’s EAP and I just called Blue Cross Blue Shield; they look up your employer and can tell you.

      I just called the number on the back of my insurance card. You should be able to determine access to this without anyone at your company needing to know.

      Also, for anyone else curious about EAPs, most also offer things like financial counseling, so it’s worth it to check into what you might have access to for things like paying off debt, saving for a house, etc. I was quite impressed with the variety of things our EAP offers.

    6. Not Me*

      I’m in HR, I wouldn’t assume someone asking about EAP is needing therapy (I also wouldn’t judge anyone who is in need of therapy either). There are so many different things someone could use EAP for, it would be silly and a waste of time to speculate on what they might use it for.

  14. Anonymous for this post*

    I had a shock at work this week. A man I dated for a few months a decade ago came to my office to meet with one of my colleagues about a project he’s apparently volunteering for. I excised him from my life may years ago because he was deceptive, which I discovered when he confessed that he had faked our being a couple because he liked the sex, pretty much verbatim, and hoped we could still see each other. It was the first time I’d ever been with someone who deliberately misled me, and I just about jumped out of my skin when I saw him in my workspace.

    Fortunately, he didn’t see me because his back was turned when I happened to walk past where he and my colleague were meeting. I heard them both say they were excited about whatever project he’s going to be volunteering for. While it’s probable that he’ll be doing something at a different location based on my colleague’s work focus, I’ve now had a couple days to calm down in case we end up meeting and can calmly say we met socially years ago if anyone asks

    I’m professional and this was all years ago, so I’ll be cordial and thank him for helping us out as I would with any of our organization’s volunteers. But holy moly, that was a close one in the moment. My colleague is a friendly, welcoming person who no doubt would have invited me into the conversation if he’d said hello. I can only imagine how awkward it would have been when she asked, “How do you know each other?”

    1. Kill ItWithFIre*

      I get why you would be leery of the situation and not keen on sharing what went down. But this isn’t your water to carry. He is just some random POS who happened through your life years ago, he is not your responsibility.

      If you do have to participate in conversations about him or talk to him, just constantly treat him or mentions of him like he farted/is a fart. Sounds wacky, but stick with me here!

      No one talks about it when there’s a fart, but the demeanor changes and people know something subtle is up. (It might work because there is the idea that women are often having multiple conversations at once – the actual words being said, the inflection of the words, the words NOT being said, the body language and the interpersonal interaction of the conversation) If you just think “wow that stinks, gag” when ever he comes up or you interact with him, all of your non-verbal “conversations” will be neutral or “ick”, indicating that you do not endorse him. Because he, like farts, is a thing that happens in life, but it means nothing to you in particular, and it’s not your job to address it.

      1. This Space For Rent*

        This is absolutely hilarious and even funnier when, all things considered, it is very accurate!!

      3. Anonymous for this post*

        This is funny! And I agree completely. It was many years ago and I’m not invested anymore. It was more of venting because in the moment it would have been awkward because I was so surprised. Yep, I’ll just say thanks for volunteering and keep it at that.

    2. Another anon*

      Besides being ready to give that calm answer, you can also be prepared to shut him down hard if he’s the sort who makes inappropriate comments/starts bragging about your past relationship when it comes up.

    3. Bunny Girl*

      I used to have two part time jobs. One was at a media station and the other one was at an adult video store. I worked at the video store in the early hours of the morning and then went to the station in the afternoon. I had just sold a video to a gentleman one morning and later that afternoon he came strolling into the station to chat with one of our account associates. Talk about remaining professional.

    4. caryatis*

      >I can only imagine how awkward it would have been when she asked, “How do you know each other?”

      “We dated a few months ago.”

      It’s the truth, and there’s no reason to hide it. Is there a part of you that feels ashamed over…dating?

      1. Anonymous for this post*

        No, not ashamed at all about dating, and it was a decade ago. Just very much don’t want to talk about dating this particular guy at work and having that become part of the rumor mill or inviting questions.

        1. Anonymous for this post*

          And to clarify, I’m ready now if we interact. It just would have been sticky in the moment because I was unprepared for it. There’s some uglier stuff that he did that I’m not posting here to keep from sharing too much identifying information.

        2. Agnodike*

          Your colleagues are going to be way less invested in this than you are. And if you have a gossipy coworker who pushes it, you just say “Oh, it was ages ago, who can remember?”

    5. Alianora*

      That’s an uncomfortable situation to be in, but yeah, there’s no reason for you to feel embarrassed — you did nothing wrong.

      I don’t really understand what “faked being a couple” means. Sounds like you *were* a couple, but he wasn’t emotionally invested?

      1. Anonymous for this post*

        He told me he loved me and later said he was only saying that to keep me around. He didn’t mean it.

        2. Jean (just Jean)*

          How painful this must have been at the time, but at least you didn’t stay with this character.

          There’s a poetic justice in your being cordial now (cool, calm, professional, emotion-free –all those adult skills that are sometimes very difficult to deploy): You can be totally proper while he–an accomplished deceiver–worries about whether or not you really mean it, underneath the surface. More important, you stay detached from this person and save your energies for something more life-affirming.

  15. FaintlyMacabre*

    I GOT A NEW JOB!

    And my boss-to-be apologized for the delay in hearing back- apparently it took a while to clear hiring me at an upper experience/pay level! No problemo, dude!

  16. TV Researcher*

    Yesterday, I got the results of my 21-month scan and the shadow that they were tracking from the last scan grew and therefore is not a shadow – though it is very small and very localized. So, I’m no longer NED (though technically I suppose I wasn’t three months ago either).

    I start immunotherapy on Thursday, and I’ll be doing that every three weeks for up to the next two years. My doctor seems optimistic, so I am too, but I am annoyed. I was getting so close to that two-year mark. I don’t yet know what the after effects of immunotherapy will be, so I’m not sure how this will affect my work.

    I was recently re-orged and my new boss works out of LA (while I’m in NYC), and I’m still figuring out what my new position entails, so this news isn’t going to help me figure things out. Though, I e-mailed him the above news yesterday (wasn’t in a space to chat about it on the phone yet), and he sent back a very nice e-mail. His boss also sent me a very nice e-mail telling me they’ll work around my appointments and make sure I don’t have too much on my plate. And they’ve just hired (prior to this news) a consultant to work with my boss and me (we were a department of two). My issue used to be that these two worked together at my boss’ prior gig, so they have a shorthand I just don’t have yet, so I was somewhat worried about my job. But, now I have a different issue to worry about, so that’s nice.

    Thanks for listening from a lurker

    3. MattKnifeNinja*

      Sorry you received such crap news.

      Crossing all my digits the new therapy works, and how nice to have a reasonable boss.

  17. Curious*

    I received a hit from a recruiter on LinkedIn yesterday for a job that I’m actually cautiously excited about, even though I’m not explicitly looking right now. We have a phone interview set up for next week, but I still feel like maybe recruiters cast a wide net and I’m not actually what they want.

    Do these things ever work out or am I wasting my time here?

    1. Just Elle*

      They do! I’ve gotten plenty of interviews / job offers this way.
      Although, I’ve also seen the classic bait and switch: “actually, you aren’t a fit for THIS roll but what would you think of this [way less desirable] one?”
      So, generally, before I agree to a phone call I ask for the job posting and ask myself “if I applied to this NOT through a recruiter, do I think the company would actually be interested in hiring me?”
      Basically, don’t think your odds of getting the job are somehow better because a recruiter promises to “vouch” for you.

      1. Curious*

        I do honestly think this position is a good fit. It calls on a lot of industry experience I already have (my field is rather industry-neutral, in that my role exists in some capacity in virtually every company) and I believe I was targeted in part because of where I currently work.

        I’m just kind of hesitant because this is a really big name, far more prominent than the Fortune 500 company I work at now, and it would be a dream company on a resume. Guess we’ll see how the phone screen goes.

        1. Just Elle*

          Then I think it’ll be great! Companies do pay recruiters to actually find them good candidates, so there are actually jobs out there filled all the time by recruiters.

          As someone who has worked at a few Big Names, just make sure you aren’t blinded by the prestige and the honor of the interview. Just like you would any other job, seriously evaluate if they still do live up to their reputation, and make sure that the culture is a good fit. Just because a company has a good reputation doesn’t mean they earned it because of good employee relationships (just look at the Steve Jobs and Elon Musk horror stories). And don’t think that the name alone somehow means the people who work there are higher caliber than you. They won’t offer you the job if you haven’t earned it!

    2. Proud University of Porridge Graduate*

      Worked for me! Ended up with a position at a company I like SO much better than the old one.

    3. Namast'ay in Bed*

      The fact that you received a message from a recruiter on LinkedIn, responded, and it amounted to anything at all sounds like a miracle – most of the time they reach out, I respond, and I never hear from them again. If you’ve gotten to a phone interview I’d say you’re doing pretty good!

    4. Small but Fierce*

      I know recruiters have a generally poor reputation, but most of the ones I’ve worked with have been great. I got my last two job offers through them. If it matters, they were both external; I’d imagine they feel more credible when they’re internal, but it still worked out for me. Good luck!

    5. AeroEngineer*

      I got my current job that way, and after this week where I was put on a new project that I really wanted, I love my new job so much! I went from a tiny company to a huge world wide one through this jump, and I also at the beginning was like… “really? they chose me out of everyone?”

      I just was like “well, lets see how the phone screening goes”, and I was impressed in the first round, and it ended up that they were impressed enough that the second round was just talking terms and salary. So don’t throw away the option yet :)

  18. Just Elle*

    I have a question regarding dress code: does it seem unprofessional for women to leave their blouses untucked?

    I work in a business casual company where men wear the standard dress pants and button up shirt, maybe a polo on Friday. I know no man would dream of leaving their button up untucked.

    But there’s not many women here, so its hard for me to judge the standards. I, quite frankly, despise the idea of tucking in my blouses. I think it highlights my stomach and looks weird, especially for silkier materials. Even more so, because it seems like these days all dress shirts are extra long to cover the bum, and tucking it in creates a bulge in my pants.

    I always wear a blazer or cardigan over my blouses, if that matters.

    1. Rey*

      I never tuck in any blouse, and if you’re wearing it with a blazer or cardigan, that sounds like it matches the professionalism of the others in your office. You should be fine.

    2. Rusty Shackelford*

      I don’t tuck anything in, and it seems to me that lots of tops these days are actually designed to be worn untucked.

    3. Natalie*

      IMO it’s fine as long as the shirt isn’t obviously designed to be tucked in (i.e. long, unpolished looking tails). Lots of women’s blouses and shells in particular are obviously not supposed to be tucked just based on length.

      1. LKW*

        Exactly, a shirt with an even hem, especially with small side vents is meant to be untucked. A shirt with a hem that curves (think oxford shirt tails), is designed to be tucked and is curved so that there is a minimum of bulky material at the waist.

        And while I don’t like the short front, long back t-shirts and sweaters (I think they call it a French Hem or something)- those are meant to be untucked as well

          1. An Amazing Detective-Slash-Genius*

            High-low shirts have been a godsend for me actually…ever since puberty I’ve had a butt that would make Kim K jealous and you bet I’m covering that up at work with long shirts and cardigans

          2. Just Elle*

            Yes! Mullet shirts are the most confusing to me! Like do I tuck in just the front? Just the back? Run around with a flowing tail poking out below even my longest blazer like some kind of magical unicorn?

      2. LGC*

        Basically!

        I’m a dude. I tuck my shirts because most of my button down shirts have long tails. (You’ll see some men’s shirts that are designed to not be tucked in, and that’s the main difference.)

        I wouldn’t imagine it’s too different for women – you look at the tails and if they fall below your crotch or thereabouts (sorry!) you need to tuck it in.

        TL;DR we tuck in our shirts because they’re designed that way

    5. TooTiredToThink*

      Depends on the length. If its right at or just below the belt line; its not even designed to be tucked in.

      I’ve got a few blouses that are meant to be tucked in, but they aren’t meant to be flat tucked – they are meant to be pulled out slightly at the pant line. Those actually look pretty good on me. But the majority aren’t even designed to be tucked in.

    6. WK*

      If you’re wearing a blazer or cardigan you definitely don’t need to tuck in your blouse. At least that’s what What Not To Wear taught me. I think even without, a lot of women’s tops aren’t really designed to be tucked in and they do look weird.

    7. hermit crab*

      I never tuck in anything! I have the Loft “utility blouse” in a bunch of colors and usually wear them with an open-front cardigan – always untucked.

    8. Scribbles*

      I always wore dress pants with an untucked dress shirt (nothing worn over it). Dress clothes make me feel awkward to begin with, and having the shirt tucked in makes me feel more awkward and restricted (like I can’t move for fear of accidentally untucking part of my shirt). I’m skinny, so I always worried that having a bulge around my waist from the shirt would be noticeable and weird looking. The untucked shirt actually covers the bulge of my keys, wallet and cell phone in my pockets, so that’s nice.

    9. Adminx2*

      I would look horrible with tucked in shirts. My work uniform is almost completely shell top with blazers/pants or shell top with open button shirts/pants. All the shells go over the waistline stopping just before the outer edge of the hip for the best clean line.

    10. Just Elle*

      Thank you for all the replies! I feel so much better!

      Somewhat ironic that this is like, the ONE area where its easier / less strict to dress as a woman than a man?

      1. Natalie*

        Probably also sleeve / bottom length – even in business formal environments, women can wear half or three-quarter sleeves and/or skirts, men are pretty much restricted to long sleeves and long pants.

      2. LDN Layabout*

        I have membership to a sporting venue where the men have to wear a jacket and tie (and various other rules) and the women’s rules are so much less stringent it’s AMAZING.

      3. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

        I actually think professional dress for women is far less strict… which makes it far harder to get right!

    11. The Ginger Ginger*

      I think you’re fine, especially if you’re wearing shells or camisoles or something similar and not a button down. Something about a button down seems to make people feel like it should be tucked in, but the nice blouses and shells women often wear under blazers don’t read the same way.

    12. cat socks*

      I never tuck in my tops. I work in a casual environment and wear skinny jeans and slim cut ponte knit pants, so my tops are on the longer side to cover my butt and front.

    13. The Rain In Spain*

      I am also a member of the untuck club. I do have a few shirts I like the look of better folded under, but I don’t even tuck those in- I wear a camisole underneath and fold them under that (sometimes pinning in place!). I used to HAVE to tuck throughout middle and high school as part of our uniform requirements and I refuse to tuck now! Some women I work with tuck in some shirts and leave others out- I think you’re probably fine! If my shirt has a long tail I do wear a longer sweater to cover it up, but I’ve seen people wear regular-length cardigans with those as well.

    14. SignalLost*

      If you want to get veeeeery technical, women’s tops with a straight hem should be tucked in; curved hems are designed to be work untucked. Straight hems are unflattering on pretty much everyone but it reduces the bulk under the waistband. Curved hems look generally flattering on most bodies.

      Sweaters, of course, do not follow this rule, because why not; nor do tee shirts. Long tops are simply too long to tuck in. But for button-downs and shells, that’s the guideline. That said, I think you’re going to look more professional if you dress in a flattering way, by which I mean you can tuck a curved-hem shirt in if you want and no longer be will know, but you probably shouldn’t leave a straight hem untucked – it’s just generally not a flattering line on anyone, particularly since they tend to be shorter to reduce bulk.

      1. Just Elle*

        Thanks!
        Do you mean straight in the front or the back? I find a lot of shells are straight across the front, then have side slits, and the back comes down much further and has a curve. I always wonder if I’m meant to just tuck in the front, or the back, or ?

    15. ISuckAtUserNames*

      I think women’s blouses are tailored more with the intent to remain untucked more than men’s, so as long as it looks good, it’s fine.

    16. CheeryO*

      I think it depends on your proportions. I’m very long-waisted, so I typically do a little half-tuck in the front with my silky blouses to keep from looking like a walking torso. I believe that’s somewhat on-trend at the moment, along with higher-rise pants.

    17. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

      I tuck everything in at the moment, but that’s because I’m wearing high vis waterproof trousers over my clothes all day. ;-P

      In an office setting I’d never tuck anything in. A tucked in top is about the most unflattering, uncomfortable, ridiculous look possible on me. A top that hangs down approximately over the rear end skims over all the lumps and weirdly high waist lines I always seem to have.

    18. Elizabeth West*

      I never tuck in a blouse, but most of mine have straight hems. I don’t like tucking and I can’t wear belts because they bother me (I have a hiatal hernia and I’m also not as skinny as I used to be).

    19. Someone Else*

      It depends. There are some blouses that I think were specifically designed to not bother being tucked, others that are very obviously designed with the intention that they would be tucked, and some that could go either way. So, basically, it depends on the shirt.

    20. Jemima Bond*

      I haven’t tucked a shirt/blouse/top/t-shirt in since 1989.
      Not even when wearing a skirt suit, heels and make up and giving evidence before the Crown Court.

  19. Sekhmet*

    I’ve been in my current job for about 5 years. It has normalized toxic behavior and dysfunctional management for me and I didn’t realize that not all workplaces were like this until I started reading AAM. Without rambling on the details of my workplace, I’ll just mention that I’ve commented many times on AAM to get advice and most readers had a resounding “WTF – get out of there quick!” response.

    In January I had a breakdown due to stress and was prescribed medication and therapy. I’d been applying for jobs here and there since May 2018 without any results, so I worked on my cover letter and resume and had 2 job interviews within a week or two of applying. The first job ghosted me after the initial interview (they asked to set up a follow-up interview but haven’t replied to my dates/times or follow-up emails), but the second one just wrapped days of interviews and have extended a job offer.

    The details:

    * 48% pay raise from my current job
    * Fully remote M-F position with mildly-flexible hours within set hours during the day
    * Computer, monitors, desk, chair, and accessories fully paid by the company
    * PTO – Waiting on more details for amount, plus some major holidays off
    * Fully paid health insurance for myself and my family
    * My potential boss seems AMAZING and incredibly caring, even through the interview process they were constantly checking to make sure I was comfortable and doing OK

    It sounds like a dream, right?

    The issue is I don’t feel excited about the work at ALL. I thought the position would be different when I applied for it, but after talking more with management and employees it sounds dull, frustrating, and the exact work I was trying to get away from but magnified ten-fold. My anxiety is shooting through the roof because I could potentially have a way out of my bad work situation, but I may be jumping into another career that feels like a dead-end.

    AAM readers, what would you do?

    2. hmm*

      The work is dull and frustrating, but will all the perks make up for it? i.e. “I find watching the teapot paint dry boring but I’m getting paid eleventy bajillion dollars for it annually so it’s not so boring after all!”

    3. OtterB*

      You said it’s “the exact work I was trying to get away from.” How sure are you that you want to get away from that type of work, vs. your current dysfunctional job making everything dull and frustrating?

      Can you talk to your potential boss about the possibility of including more of the type of work you like?

    4. Elizabeth Proctor*

      Take the new job. It sounds better than your old one, and if you do decide to leave you were at your old company for 5 years so you won’t look flighty.

    5. Ama*

      Do what you need to do for yourself, but I personally need to feel at least some kind of investment and engagement in my work or I am miserable.

      That said, if you would be more miserable staying where you are currently, I wouldn’t blame you for moving to something more structurally stable even if the work isn’t what you want. Let’s say you turn this job down and don’t get another good offer for a year — do you think you can make it that long, or do you need to go now and spend that year working in a better environment?

    6. TooTiredToThink*

      Take the job – re-learn normal behaviors and then you’ll be able to use the mild flex time to look for a new position that you are excited about and you’ll be more poised for success because you will have unlearned some of the things that are now ingrained.

    7. A person*

      Decide what is more important to you – getting out now for your health and getting extra money/flexibility and a supportive boss, or having work that you enjoy doing.

      If you decide against accepting, keep applying. There will be other opportunites, better or worse, I couldn’t tell you.

      If it was me, I’d take it and get out of the bad situation, for my health. If you decide the job ultimately isn’t for you, you can look for a new one in a few months. One short stay won’t make you look like a job hopper.

      There are lots of jobs out there, but only one you.

    8. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

      I’m currently in a position where I knew taking the job the work was not likely to be exciting, wasn’t in an industry I wanted to be in, and had little to no relation to anything I have a passion for. I was not excited when they called with the offer, but I needed the money so I took it, with a churning in my gut.

      Let me tell you its turned out to be one of the worst decisions I have ever made and after two years of trying to make this work and getting to ever new levels of WTF-ery every week, and starting to get physically ill from the place, I am trying to get out. I have learned no new skills, never get any recognition, came in at too low a level but there is no way to move up, and half the time I am doing work at a level three steps down from where I would consider myself otherwise. My confidence is shot and I have zero life outside work because I am depressed. The only thing is that is pays decently but I absolutely hate the office, the people, and the work.

      If your gut is saying no, then take the time to find the RIGHT fit, especially if you are having these reservations now. Take that offer as a benchmark for what you could be worth to another employer, and see that you ARE wanted, but make sure you are are wanted by the RIGHT place.

      Good luck!

      1. Namast'ay in Bed*

        I am in no way trivializing or minimizing your experience – it sounds awful, and I’m really sorry you’re going through that. I just want to offer my experience, which is similar but had a different outcome:

        I took a job where I also knew the work was not likely to be exciting, wasn’t in an industry I wanted to be in, and had little to no relation to anything I have a passion for. I was not excited when they called with the offer, but I was unemployed so I took the job, also with apprehension.

        It ended up being one of the best decisions I’ve ever made – it turns out that I really enjoy having a job that’s just a job. Being able to go to work, do my job, and come home feels amazing to me. Looking at my last job that I was crazy passionate about in an industry I’d long wanted to work in, it turns out that wrapping up my identity into my employment was crazy draining and unhealthy. It also helps that I’m paid much better and work for a company that treats its employees well, and I have a supportive boss and good coworkers.

        I think the big difference between my experience and Sprechen’s is that my company is a healthy environment – you should ask around and see what others have to say about the company, but getting a good vibe off your boss is super awesome – I was unsure about the job but had a good feeling about my boss when I interviewed with them. I also know that this is my unique experience, and I could see my current this-is-fine situation being considered awful to some, plus I wasn’t excited about the work but it also wasn’t something I was trying to get away from.

        My final feelings are – you are already miserable where you are, it seems like the worse thing that could happen with the new job is that you are miserable there, but with more money, great benefits, and an awesome boss. Good luck!

        1. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

          This is absolutely true and I was hoping your result would have been mine too! Alas it wasn’t (and that was with talking with numerous people who had worked there previously), although I suspect it could be due to a variety of very subtle reasons that aren’t applicable to this situation.

          Additionally, I would like to warn that it sounds easy to “just get a new job in a year if you are unhappy” but in reality it can still be challenging to spin up yet another new job search just when you got settled into a new environment. Two people gave me that counsel as well.

          I think it comes down to better the devil you know vs the one you dont :) and a bunch of other factors, but absolutely, the OP could be pleasantly surprised!

    9. Banana Bread*

      Honestly, your current situation sounds so nightmare-ish that it seems worth it to take this otherwise-fine new offer just to reset your expectations and give yourself some breathing room. Is there a period of time that you’d feel comfortable committing to this new job?

      I imagine doing it for a year or so, and then seriously searching for a new position more in line with your career goals would set you up really well. You’d have a higher salary history (and/or more savings), so you’d be negotiating from a comfortable position. A year or so is also short enough to be manageable, but long enough that you don’t look flaky. You can explain it down the line as “I left [current job] for [new offer] because I was interested in trying out more [new offer duties], but I realized after a few months that I’d much rather be doing [actual career interests].” It happens all the time, and I don’t think a good employer would hold it against you.

    10. Adminx2*

      Take the new job if only because it gives you breathing room to take care of yourself where you’ve been forced to take damage. In two years you’ll be ready for the next step whatever it is.

    11. Miley Hemsworth*

      As someone who left a horribly toxic work environment several years ago….

      Take the job. Even if the actual work is not exactly what you desire, getting out of the toxic environment and into a place that is normal — even better, caring and supportive — will make all the difference. You may even find you do not mind the actual work because the environment is so much better.

      Also, give yourself some time to adjust to working for reasonable people. I have read AAM for quite a while and I knew from others experience that “job PTSD” is a real thing, but I never imagined I would experience it myself! It has been 2 years since I left toxic hell and I am now working in a job I love for a boss who values me and my work. Yet I still notice that when I’ve made a mistake, my heart races and I am filled with dread thinking no explanation I give will be good enough, I am going to get berated or yelled at, etc. It still amazes me how being in that toxic workplace still affects me, but it does get better as time goes by. Be kind to yourself!!

    13. The Rain In Spain*

      I am in the camp of taking this job to get out of an untenable situation. You’ve made it 5 years in worse conditions, try to go into this with an open mind and see how it goes. As others have said, you may find the work is more interesting than you thought, and you can always job search after a year or so. The pay raise, remote position, PTO, and health insurance would be enough to keep me happy for at least that long- do you think that’ll hold true for you as well?

      Also, I once accepted a position I wasn’t very excited about and it turned out to be one of my absolute favorite jobs, the work was more interesting than I thought, and my boss and coworkers were absolutely amazing. I hope the same for you if you do accept it!

    14. Forkeater*

      I’ve been in a toxic job (that sent me to medication and therapy too) and now am in job in field I find to be a big yawn (that also pays better). I’d say get out – and bank all that extra money – set it aside to take a lot of time off down the road. It will take some time to recover from the toxic job and relearn what normal people are like, just treat this as a detox period.

    15. AnonyNurse*

      Take the job.

      Exhale. Give yourself time to heal. See it as pressing pause for a bit while you figure out what you want.

      You may find that the work is actually interesting if the environment isn’t hostile.

      And since you’ll be remote, heck, you can entertain yourself with other things if you’re super bored or whatever.

    16. Cartographical*

      I would absolutely take the job for a number of reasons but first and foremost, if I were in your situation, my general sense of what I wanted or needed or would be happy doing would be completely skewed by being in survival mode for so long. I would be flying blind and I’d have to rely on other input like my salary increase and better benefits and time off to guide me.

      One thing my therapist has been teaching me is learning to reassure myself that I can cope with uncertain outcomes. What if the work is boring and frustrating? Is boring, frustrating work a complete dealbreaker for you if you have a boss you can turn to and say, “wow, I’m bored and frustrated, here’s a few ideas I have to help me manage my work situation, do you have any input?” Are you okay with being bored if it means better conditions and more money? Is having to do something difficult and tedious less frustrating if you don’t have a toxic boss breathing down your neck and making you feel inferior for needing the time it takes to do it? Can you handle being bored and annoyed with your work for twelve months? Eighteen months? Even if this job is a “dead end” job, is it really a dead end if it opens up the rest of your life?

      I hope whatever choice you make brings you what you need but the job sounds like it’s got meta-potential — maybe not career potential but everything else potential.

    17. LilySparrow*

      I’ll take dull over toxic any day, especially well-compensated dull in the comfort of my own home.

      And I’ll choose frustrating work over frustrating bosses and co-workers any day, too. If the new job has good boundaries and reasonable expectations, then you only have to deal with the frustrating work during work hours. As opposed to the stress you’re under now, which is affecting your whole life.

      A comfy job is never a dead end unless you choose to make it one. You will be in a much better position to job-hunt for the work you like better, when you are rested, de-stressed, and not overwhelmed.

      1. Small but Fierce*

        As someone who went from toxicity to dull comfort in my home, I agree with this. I would caution that I currently work fully remote and find it very isolating, but I also moved to an area where I know no one except for a couple of my husband’s coworkers. I’m bored and underutilized, but I also have time for grad school and to apply for other opportunities when I want to.

        All that you described sounds like a great financial and lifestyle opportunity. Since you have a good track record in your current company, you can also leave fairly quickly if needed. My first job was incredibly toxic and I was so anxious to leave it, but it was the best thing that could have happened in the grand scheme of things.

      2. Jasnah*

        I totally agree. It’s far better to have a boring but comfortable job, with dull/frustrating work but decent coworkers, than a boring and uncomfortable job, with dull work and crap coworkers. Like LilySparrow says, it turns the dial down from “work is so bad I need meds and therapy” to “I need to vent over a glass of wine every so often.”

    18. Mobuy*

      Change is scary! I think it’s totally normal to feel anxious about change, even if you are getting away from something bad. I say take it, get away from the job you hate, and enjoy the good things about this new offer.

    19. Totally Minnie*

      Did you get a sense of what the structure of the new company is like? Is there a possibility that if you take this job, you can move up or over into something different after a while?

      Alternatively, do you think it would be worth it to be bored for 8 or 9 months while you use your newly increased salary to build up your savings account and keep looking for a job that feels more exciting?

      If your answer to those questions is no, then I wouldn’t take the job. But if you can say yes to either of them, it might be worth taking the job. Nothing says that you have to stay there forever, but the new perks could give you a nice mental reprieve from your last job, and you’d have a bit of a financial cushion while you keep searching.

      I’m worried that if you say no to this job and have to stay in the toxic job until you get another offer, it will further damage your health, and none of us here want that for you.

    20. Lupin Lady*

      OP, if you’re only just getting past a breakdown, it’s worth considering that in a better state of mind this work could be most interesting to you. It’s hard to be excited or positive about anything after 5 years in a toxic environment, and it seems like the healthiest thing would be to take this opportunity. Whatever you decide, good luck.

    21. Alianora*

      I would take it. It sounds like the work is no worse than your current job, and the benefits and work environment are much better.

      Look at it this way: what will happen if you stay in your current position for let’s say a year? It’s still a dead-end job AND you’ve had to put up with a toxic environment. What will happen if you switch and stay in the new job for a year? It’s a dead-end job, but you’ve had the time to recover and the job searching process will be much easier.

    22. Not So NewReader*

      Hmm. Maybe you can negotiate special projects into your hiring agreement to break the monotony. Since everything else sounds great about this job, why not think about ways the company can make the work appealing to you?
      The boss may already know that it is hard to find people who are willing to do the work. He maybe motivated to weave other things into the job to keep you interested.
      My thought here is that you are ready to turn down the offer. So this means you have nothing to lose by asking.

    23. Monty and Millie's Mom*

      I would take it. You had a breakdown because of your last job, so this can be a way to hear until you are ready to really go charging back into looking for work that you are passionate about. A meh job for awhile, that lets you re-learn normal work behavior, especially one that has some pretty nice perks, sounds like an overall win in your life.

    24. Hi*

      If you’re going to do work you don’t like you might as well be making 50% more working from home with insurance for your family while you look for the replacement! Take it!!

  20. Kirby*

    I have a kind of delicate question that I would love help on!
    There is a new coworker of mine who hasn’t been doing so well. He’s apparently explained to our boss and HR that he’s handling some personal difficulties, and I’ve been given guidance on how to work with this person (i.e. address them, and give feedback) so we can all get things done in a way that doesn’t make the new employee uncomfortable.
    The problem is, my new coworker has some anger issues. I’ve noticed that they often curse under their breath and slam things down on their desk. It’s under control when our boss is around, but I can’t always expect my boss to be around. As well, he’s also made some threatening moves, like intentionally brushing into me and slamming things on the desk when I come in, that make me concerned that he’s trying to set up a situation where he can portray himself as the victim and me as the aggressor.
    I’m sensitive and compassionate towards the new coworker’s struggles, but I also feel unsafe when I am alone around them. What’s the diplomatic way to tell my boss and HR that I’m compassionate and want to give them a chance to improve, but I think there’s a small but real chance that this person could get violent? Management here seems to be taking a very reasonable approach to the situation (I’ve been told that while the new employee is going through some things which we need to be considerate of, those aren’t an excuse for emotional outbursts, refusing to attend meetings, etc.), but I want to make sure I do everything right.

    1. Rey*

      In your last sentence, you specifically say that they have mentioned emotional outbursts, etc. so it sounds like they want you to report this information, and the sooner, the better. I would focus on looking at the bare facts of what happened (i.e., when Boss is not there, he frequently slams things on the desk and curses to himself) and then present how you feel about it (I am concerned that this person could be violent. I don’t feel safe working with him when Boss is not there.) Its nice that you want to be compassionate, and you could specifically say that, but you also need to act on this ASAP.

        1. A person*

          Agree, document so you have concrete examples you can refer to when you bring this up.

          Also are there any other witnesses to this behavior?

      2. Michelle*

        I agree. I think it’s very telling that he can control those things when the boss is around. Intentionally brushing into you and slamming things when you walk it is not OK. Having personal difficulties is not an excuse to be aggressive and threatening toward your coworkers.

        1. Kirby*

          He doesn’t fully control them. He’s on better behavior when our boss is present, but my boss is aware and going through the procedure.

          I understand that we all have different histories and issues, but there’s a difference between making reasonable accommodations for him and keeping the office a place where no one feels like someone else there might get aggressive. I suppose I’m trying to figure out the language to present that to HR to that’ll communicate how the situation seems to other people.

    2. Res Admin*

      I’ve had to deal with a similar situation. CW was difficult regardless, however she had a few (very difficult) personal situations that were coming into play which resulted in her being given a lot of leeway. Going to my boss made it worse because Boss (being a kind and reasonable person) tried to deal with it by having a meeting with the head of HR present. That resulted in the person having a full morning to literally make up a litany of grievances against me and play the martyr.

      When the situation got inevitably worse, I ended up going to the head of HR (who had known both of us for many years at this point), and explained that I did not feel comfortable sharing an office with this person and that judging by the language CW was using, I might be being set up for some type of retaliatory complaint. I was moved to a new office by the next morning (with apologies that it couldn’t happen sooner).

      I left a while later for a better opportunity within our organization and former CW has since been let go for cause.

      1. Res Admin*

        To be clear, I mention this because the situation was very similar with emotional outburst, anger, etc. only when we were alone together. CW was sugar sweet when there were other people present. When I went to HR, I had documented specific instances of unreasonable behavior from CW–so even if it was just my word against hers, I had a contemporaneous account of each situation with specific language used.

      2. Kirby*

        Thankfully, the coworker isn’t too great at controlling their outbursts, so there is a fair amount of documentation of incidents from me and other people. There haven’t been any incidents which boil down to my word vs. theirs — yet. They do seem to have legitimate difficulties, and I am sympathetic to that.

        This specific person’s general behavior makes me think they’re also not interested in the job. They’ve cited that they get very agitated when someone criticizes their work or professionalism, and they can’t work for the rest of the day. There have been repeat occasions where they don’t show up for meetings, or even work at all. My boss and HR are smart, kind, well intentioned and professional, but I get the impression that the new person is using some fairly legitimate issues as a shield against getting disciplinary action so they can continue to collect a paycheck for as long as they can. And of course, there’s also the fact that I’m genuinely worried that the new person will get aggressive. We have a white collar office job, and while people curse and all, slamming your coffee cup down and mumbling swear words is still very weird.

        I really like what you said to your HR about the fear of the other person trying to engineer a situation where they can attempt a claim of retaliation. Do you think that’s worth raising here?

        1. valentine*

          slamming things on the desk when I come in
          Do mention this, contrasted with him doing nothing when Boss is around. I wouldn’t share speculation on his motives or plans yet, so they don’t say it’s a personality conflict or similar BS.

          In your log, also note when anyone else was in the room or space.

      1. Adminx2*

        To add I do some vents and ONE TIME one of the authors we had got upset because the table he wanted was taken for something else and he immediately made a snarky remark and slammed his books on the table. Never done anything like that and comes across as totally gentle in the years I’d known them. He recovered quickly but I will never forget that instant switch to tantrum and never trust them again.

    4. Just Elle*

      I would just keep matter of fact / unemotional logs of what is happening, and bring it to their attention. Also explain, after you’re done recounting examples, that you feel unsafe. Those feelings are legitimate and its important they know that your gut is telling you this has crossed into something you can’t deal with. Some of the things you mentioned are categorically Not OK.
      The fact that they’re hiding it when your boss is around means 1) they know its not ok and are capable of controlling it, but choose not to and 2) your boss isn’t aware of the problem and needs to be made aware.
      While I understand wanting to accommodate someone who needs some extra support, the company’s duty is to protect employees first and foremost. They simply cannot be allowing behavior that could escalate and endanger those around them, or even generally create a hostile work environment.

      1. valentine*

        I would just keep matter of fact / unemotional logs of what is happening
        Yes.

        02/02 9am Joe brushed against me as we passed in the hallway.
        02/05 3pm Joe slammed his mug on his desk and said, “[Eff] this” under his breath.
        02/08 11am After reading Boss’ tracked changes, Joe said he cannot work for the rest of the day. (If there aren’t more things like this, maybe just mention it at another time.)

        You leave the emotions out and, after saying in person that you’re concerned he’ll escalate, push back if they move the goalpost to his intent, what’s in his heart, or his alleged personal goal.

        You: I’m concerned he’ll escalate.
        HR or Boss: I’m sure Joe was just having a bad day. He’s a good guy and he just needs time to get over Issues.
        You: Nevertheless, he brushed past me and I don’t feel safe when he slams things on his desk and mutters profanity.

        It’s possible they will turn it around on you and gaslight you that you’re choosing to feel unsafe, but you probably need to say it for the record.

        They are giving him way too much leeway and I wonder if what happened is he harmed someone because, even if a drunk driver kills your whole family, why would you milk the empathy to be violent at work and target a colleague?

        1. Kirby*

          Just to be clear, HR and my boss are doing their due diligence in listening to my reports and speaking to the new person. I am generally liked and I try to go out of my way to be polite and considerate to other people, given my own mental health history, I work very hard to not repeat my previous antisocial behavior. Management and HR are not doubting me or anything like that. No one has said anything to me, because, again, the powers that be are being professional here, but from language used and such, I get the impression that NewPerson is trying to defend their behavior, like storming out of the office after someone gives them feedback, as being part of a certain ADA covered condition. Which may be true, and I support the general notion of giving someone the tools to succeed if they’re facing difficulties in life. I am not a lawyer, nor am I an HR professional, but I doubt that things like slamming things on your desk, calling coworkers “f***er” under your breath, and refusing to work for the rest of the day, are reasonable accommodations.

          I guess that a concise summary of what I’m asking for, is what I can say to the powers that be get across that the new person’s behavior is dangerous and unsettling.

          1. Just Elle*

            I think what we’re trying to point out is that all you need to do, is make them aware of the dangerous/unsettling actions, and the fact that they make you feel uncomfortable. If they really are great, then that will be more than enough. If they aren’t, we’re trying to give you some tools to fight back.
            Because, like you’ve said, there is no excuse that make it ok to be using intimidating tactics and violent actions. He physically assaulted you (brushed you) on purpose. Any HR person worth their salt wouldn’t stand for that if they were made aware.

          2. Observer*

            As Just Elle says, if they are any good then giving them the full picture by giving them a full run down of the facts should be enough. If essentially giving them a log of his misbehavior gets some talk about ADA, personal circumstances etc. then your boss and HR are NOT being professional and are not doing their due diligence. Listening to your reports is not enough. If your reporting is accurate it’s high time some action was taken.

    5. anon today*

      I’m with most of the other commenters here: describe what has happened and explain that you feel unsafe as a result. I’ve been through this kind of situation, and if you don’t say something now, there’s a good chance it could get worse. Nobody wants to accuse a struggling coworker of being dangerous…but if he’s already deliberately touching you (!!! ALARM BELLS) and swearing and slamming things around when the boss isn’t watching, it’s unlikely to get better on its own. Like others have said here, document everything, too.

    6. Observer*

      Skip explaining that he might get violent. Instead document everything, and just present the facts. Highlight the fact that he has already “brushed” into you.

      The other stuff is bad enough for any reasonable boss to be concerned about. But that is just way over the top. Your typical 10 year old knows better.

      1. Kirby*

        Thankfully my boss is reasonable. They believe me and encourage me to document and report to HR. The flip side of that reasonable nature is that they’re trying to give the new person opportunities, and TBH with the new person’s conduct I worry that they’re giving too many opportunities. I can understand to a degree things like being unfocused or a bit emotional at work, especially with a new job, after a move, because of whatever personal life circumstances, but not the intentional contact or mumbling under their breath around me. It seems like a very immature child’s way of trying to express displeasure with someone. I suppose I am asking more about how I should document, because this stuff is deeply unsettling.

        1. Observer*

          Giving too many “chances” is, in fact, NOT reasonable.

          Stick to very specific and clear language. NO softening whatsoever.

          Also, the fact that he’s touched you already should be a major red flag. There is no law on the books (at least on a Federal level, and almost certainly on a state level) that requires accommodations that put others at risk.

          So ask them what is being done to protect you? If they give you some story about “process” and “confidentiality” point out that as the victim you have a legitimate need to know what is being done to protect you and a right to expect a safe workplace – which is something you do NOT have as long as they are not taking action.

          If he “brushes” up against you again, or touches you in any other way, after this, let your boss know that you will be working from home until they can provide you with a reasonable guarantee that this won’t happen again. And “trust us” doesn’t cut it.

          1. Kirby*

            So what can I do to get the company to act on this? I’m almost 100% sure that he’s claiming his behavior is caused by an ADA covered disability and threatening to sue, so he can stay on the payroll as long as possible. Everyone has encouraged me to keep documenting, but it’s also been “unfortunately, we can’t just fire him” for the last few weeks. You’d think the near daily meetings between him and his boss or him and HR would have come to something by now…

  21. TheTallestOneEver*

    For resumes or end of year performance reviews, what’s the best way to document unnecessary spending that I’ve identified and eliminated?

    Less than a month ago, we re-orged and now I’m responsible for reviewing and approving invoices related to the services that now report to me. In less than 30 days, I’ve already identified costs for things that aren’t necessary (ex. ads in the yellow pages for offices that no longer exist, subscription services for people who retired years ago, recurring bills we’re still paying for services that we asked to have terminated, etc.). My previous roles were more program/project management, where I was given a bucket of money to do something specific. This new role is more operational, and I’m trying to figure out the best way to track and communicate these savings as part of my professional accomplishments.

    Suggestions?

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      Oh, I did this once, on my resume I summed up all the costs I had saved and included it as a bullet. “Saved the company over $100,000 a year by identifying redundant costs” is a great bullet. Don’t list each one though. You can discuss specific examples in interviews.

  22. Sloan Kittering*

    Anybody working out of a WeWork space and want to discuss the weirdness? My company has a real office that I go to every day, but it is located within a WeWork in NYC. I find it a good mix of fun, weird, frustrating, and bizarre.

    1. hmm*

      I don’t work out of a WeWork space but I had an accountant who had one of those spaces and I’ve actually hosted events at different WeWork spaces. I LOVE the space, I find them well-designed, modern and wished that my current office could utilize one of those spaces but it’s not feasible. Also, complimentary nitro cold brew on tap is a major win in my book.

      What do you find frustrating about it?

      1. Sloan Kittering*

        It is aesthetically appealing (for a certain style, anyway – industrial modern, fine) but I also find the type of thing Hermit Crab mentions below – it’s got a real college dorm vibe going. Sometimes amusing, sometimes annoying. Our is also weirdly understaffed but that may be specific to the one I go to.

    2. DAMitsDevon*

      I’m also at a WeWork space in NYC that my team got moved to last month, because we supposedly can’t fit everyone in the organization into the main office. The amenities are nicer, but the open office plan is kind of annoying. I’m definitely taking advantage of the occasional free food they have though.

    3. Hillary*

      I was on a conference call with someone who was working out of a collaboration space last week because his home internet wasn’t set up yet. It was awful – all I could hear from his line was a loud sales meeting and an even louder dog.

      It didn’t predispose me to like them.

    4. hermit crab*

      Me! My office is being renovated so we are temporarily in a suite within a WeWork space. The actual, physical space is fabulous (granted, I have a high tolerance for noise and open offices don’t bother me much) but I find the overall vibe kind of hilarious. With all the events and amenities and stuff, it’s more “summer camp” or “college dorm” than “office.”

      I went on an orientation tour the first day I was here, and there were all these bro types sitting on couches with headphones and laptops – I kinda wondered whether they were actual workers or, like, getting ready for a stock-photo shoot.

      1. Sloan Kittering*

        hilarious yes! summer camp vibe, yes. The beer comes out at 11 AM some days, but my office is not really that kind of freewheeling fun place. Also, visitors to ours frequently accuse the entire thing of being staged and staffed with attractive multicultural millennial models lol.

        1. hermit crab*

          Ha, exactly! Overall, I feel like there is a general “style over substance” thing going on. Like, everything is beautiful but we are all fighting over laptop docking stations in our suite because the electrical (?) system can’t support every workstation having a monitor. The conference call infrastructure in the meeting rooms is TERRIBLE. And there is never enough toilet paper in the bathrooms. But that sweet, sweet fruit water…!

          1. Sloan Kittering*

            YES!! The building is, as some have said, visually striking – visitors often literally say “wow” when they walk in – but it’s like a skeleton crew within the building, and things are set up … oddly. They don’t quite have the basics down. Style over substance is a good way to put it.

          3. Observer*

            That’s all pretty bad, especially considering the prices they charge.

            This sounds messed up for beginning to end – Poor planning / lack of understanding of the needs of the customers (inadequate electrical work!) poor implementation (Poor conference calling? In a place effectively designed for remote work? Seriously!?) and execution (how do the keep on having TP shortages. There is no city in the US that I can think of where TP is in short supply!)

    5. Rainy days*

      My brother interviewed for a job that would have provided world-wide WeWork access as one of the “perks”–I told him that sounded more like a punishment!

    7. lapgiraffe*

      I went to one for a meeting with a potential client once, they were a two to three person startup working on their brick and mortar retail from wework, and the meeting was just one of them and two of us, so he didn’t book a room or anything. Instead we sat at some communal table that had swings for chairs, like playground swings bolted into the ceiling. Very attractive ones with strong cables so I wasn’t worried about it too much, but they were just a hair too high and I couldn’t fully put my feet on the ground (and I don’t feel that short, 5’6), so I spent the entire proposal sliding off this stupid swing chair. Like not overtly, which was actually worse, I just couldn’t actually sit and my thighs were shaking by the end from what was basically a 23 minute assisted squat, it was beyond uncomfortable, I honestly wish I would have just stood up.

      Also, my boss at the time was a very old school 60 year old white man in a suit he probably bought in the early 90s, so him sitting in this swing chair amidst the hip young diverse crowd was hilarious and awkward in so many ways. The reality was that we were both so uncomfortable that we struggled with the entire presentation and walked out laughing and shrugging off the weird experience, but it worked out because this retailer went out of business within a year and the little business we got was paid in full, so no great loss.

      I believe WeWork is probably great for a lot of people and companies, but it was funny for me that my one experience was a living parody of it – the young hip milennials trying to disrupt the old standard with VC money, all style no substance and 2 years later nothing to show for it, no major ramifications, and somehow they’re all off in other roles planning their next great con…I mean, idea!

  23. Proud University of Porridge Graduate*

    A year ago I was promoted to director of my department. It’s a pretty niche area, and while I’m good at my job, I don’t have much business knowledge or experience outside my small sphere. Recently my company started to make the news. A lot. We’re a tech company and are very close to being The Next Big Thing. My problem is that now I have a lot of sales people contacting me wanting to talk about what their company can do for us or recruiters asking about job postings. Very very few of these are related to me at all. So how do I respond to everyone else? Or do I? It feels rude to leave people hanging, but I don’t know enough about the needs of other departments to pass any of the contacts on and I don’t really have time to open a conversation about who might benefit from whatever they’re offering.

      1. KarenK*

        Exactly this. Just because someone has contacted you (i.e., cold-called you) does not mean you have to respond.

    2. Jules the 3rd*

      They are the ones being rude, and they know it. ‘Leaving them hanging’ is the expected response.

      As for passing info on – you are not obligated to do their work for them. Also, if your coworkers need services, they will find the services themselves.

        1. Hi*

          of course its rude to email someone who never gave you their email or call someone who never gave you their number.

    3. The Rain In Spain*

      For most services, if I’m feeling really nice/am not swamped I’ll forward an email to the applicable department and let them follow up. Otherwise I ignore them.

      For recruiters, I ask HR what their preference is (once) and then respond accordingly.

    4. Jonah*

      I manage the digital department in a business that recently became publicly traded, and now I’m constantly bombarded with this kind of thing, too. If I have to talk directly to someone (i.e. I answer the phone when they call or they stop by the office unexpectedly, which is the worst), I try to nip it in the bud and avoid giving them any information that could indicate we’re a good lead.

      My (and my coworkers’) philosophy is that if someone in my agency needs some kind of service, they’ll be able to successfully navigate locating a vendor on their own. I typically don’t respond at all to cold emails or cold calls that leave me messages, and if someone won’t leave me alone, a simple, “We’re really not interested, but thanks for reaching out,” usually does the trick. I do have a vendor from a particular “streamlining” company who will not leave me alone because he knows I have a sizable budget for his type of service, but that we believe in doing this particular thing by hand.

      The thing to remember here is that sales reps and recruiters are very used to being blown off, rejected, and receiving all kinds of legitimately rude behavior, so it shouldn’t be an emotional thing on their end to get a negative or no response. And you shouldn’t have to feel guilty about it either, especially if the cold calls are making it difficult for you to accomplish your actual job.

    5. DataGirl*

      My first IT boss told me he hangs up on solicitors. They are already wasting his time, he feels no obligation to give them more of it. I don’t go so far as to just hang up without saying anything, but a quick ‘NoThanksBYE’ followed by hanging up works well.

    6. coffeeforone*

      They want something FROM you, not FOR you. Trust your judgement (you didn’t make it this far accidentally!). If you are worried you’ll accidentally let the opportunity of a lifetime slide by, maybe you could keep a running list of who has reached out to you and circulate it to your higher ups? That way if someone says, “oh, that company would be key for [thing you know nothing about]!”, you can pass it off, but you’re also not spending any time giving these strangers leads they don’t deserve. Leave em the hell hanging otherwise!

    7. noahwynn*

      For calls, I’ll just say “thank you, but I’m not interested” and then hang up. For email I will generally respond to the first one with “thanks for reaching out, but we’re not interested at this time” and if they reply I don’t and just let it drop. I don’t pass on contacts or forward emails. It’s not rude to say no thanks.

    8. That Girl From Quinn's House*

      I was a temp receptionist at a tech startup for five minutes. We had one phone number. The vendors/recruiters would call down the list of contacts they had. So I’d get a call at 11:30 asking if the Director of Marketing was interested in buying industrial-grade teapots. Then I’d get a call at 11:35 asking if the Director of Engineering was interested in buying industrial-grade teapots. Then I’d get a call at 11:37 asking if the Office Manager was interested in buying industrial-grade teapots. Then I’d get a call at 11:42 asking if the CEO was interested in buying industrial-grade teapots. You’d think they’d realize they’d dialed the same number 4 times and been shot down by the same person 4 times, but they’d keep calling.

      Basically, if they’re calling you, they’re also calling other people in the company.

    9. Hi*

      Oh i block these people or occasionally write back “Remove me from your list, I didn’t sign up! Thanks”

      They’re just spam who got your info off linked in? IGNORE.

  24. AVP*

    I am usually a nice, friendly person who is a good conversationalist with strangers and friends alike – and I have a decent job, know my job and the industry pretty well, have been in it for a decade. But I ~~cannot~~ have a networking conversation to save my life!

    Any time I’m in such a situation, I freeze up, get really shy and introverted, and just generally cannot carry a back-and-forth. I worry that I’m “bragging” too much about my own work and not asking enough questions about the other persons, or vice versa, and generally just not adding anything. I think I psyche myself out about having to seem impressive or interesting and just come off as dull or manic. Any tips for combatting this?

    1. Jules the 3rd*

      1) Practice with a friend
      2) Consciously think through what feels like a good back and forth – you speaking for X minutes, then asking a question and listening. Then memorize an elevator pitch about your job / accomplishments that is x – 1 minutes, and use that as an intro.

    2. College Career Counselor*

      Practice with a friend or sympathetic colleague until you feel more comfortable asking questions. Try to re-frame it in your mind as information-gathering (you want to find out what they do, how they got into it, what they like/don’t like about it, and what advice they might have for YOU) as opposed to a purely transactional interaction that is inherently unequal (I’m asking this person to help me find a job/switch careers, and I have nothing to offer in return).

      Why do you feel you are bragging too much about your work? Are you feeling like you’re in “job interview mode”? Perhaps you can say something like “I’ve done this kind of work (examples ABC) in the past/most recently–how do you see that aligning with the type of work done in your industry/field?” This might help you get past the feeling like you’re “bragging” on your accomplishments.

      Perhaps setting up your expectations of the other person ahead of time can make you more comfortable with the process. (Can I pick your brain about XYZ? I’m interested in learning more about how your field/org does ABC; would you be willing to talk with me about that? I’ve been thinking about making a change in my career into X and wanted to get your advice/talk to someone knowledgeable about that. Would you be open to a short conversation? So-and-So suggested I reach out to you to ask about blah blah blah–would you be willing to meet?) Generally, I find, people like to talk about their work, whether they love it or hate it. And, as long as you’re being mindful about the amount of time you’re asking for, it’s usually not a problem.

      TL;DR: Networking can feel extremely weird, but it can become more comfortable with practice and framing.

      Now, the scenarios above are all for generally individual formal networking requests, and you may be referring to much more casual conversations during conferences, professional meetings, etc. If so, ask people to talk about their latest project (they’ll have something to say about it), then ask follow up questions (how’d you manage that? Did you have to deal with sourcing the flux capacitors on that issue?). You can always then interject your own experiences in a similar or different arena and indicate you’d like to do more of whatever it is and how might you train/explore resources?

    3. Lily Rowan*

      Don’t think of networking as a separate thing! You are just having regular conversations, getting to know people. Just be your normal self.

      Maybe this is just me, but I’ve never actually built my network through Networking(tm) — I’ve gotten to know people professionally, and those people are my network.

    4. AliceW*

      I use networking conversations to find out how others do things in different organizations? I always have a list of at least 5 questions about how their company has handled a particular issue or project etc. I use it as a information gathering tool so I can bring back other perspectives and perhaps better ways of doing things to my own company. I never talk about myself unless they ask me questions. Then we usually can have an easy back and forth either commiserating over similar work issues or we can brainstorm about how the industry can tackle an particular issue better. I don’t do much small talk and I am generally not interested in striking up a friendship. It’s work.

  25. Please help me; I'm indecisive*

    Is it worth it to leave a dream job for a pay bump + advancement?

    I’m <5 years out from graduate school, but have a few professional jobs under my belt. My job right now is 85% teapot engineering, with 15% teapot design. This blend of work is perfect for me, and it's what I want to do long-term. Going into work every day makes me happy, and it truly doesn't *feel* like work, even on the worst days. My dilemma is that a former supervisor at a competing firm now wants to hire me back on.

    Pros:
    – The new role would be a promotion in terms of title and pay: from Teapot Engineer to Lead Teapot Engineer, and pay would increase by ~$15k.
    – New Firm was a huge fan of my work when I was there, and I know I would be good at the work. I only left because I was on a contract position that they weren't able to renew for budget reasons.
    – Current Firm has uncertain prospects of advancement. The promotion policies are that when Lead Teapot Engineer roles open, everyone else who's at least minimally qualified get to apply. I'd probably have to compete with another Teapot Engineer on my team who's been with the firm for longer. Although my supervisors have told me discreetly that I'm a top candidate for promotion, nothing is guaranteed.
    – I have no dependents, but my parents will be retiring in 2 years, and I'm concerned about being able to contribute to them financially. They theoretically have saved enough to get by, but I still worry.
    – I have a lot of student loans ($100k+). The loan payments are manageable on my current (pretty comfortable) salary, and I'm set to pay it all off in < 10 years, but more money would always be nice.

    Cons:
    – I want to mostly do teapot engineering. The duties of the new role would be more like 35% teapot engineering, 35% teapot design, 30% teapot marketing. I've done a little bit of teapot marketing in the past, but I mostly find it boring.
    – Current Firm has a LOT of teapot engineers, who I work closely with, and who provide me tons of mentorship.
    – Current Firm invests more heavily in professional training opportunities. If I add it up, I'm getting about $5k/year of specialized Teapot Engineering training as a standard thing, and I can always ask for more.
    – New Firm is notoriously old-fashioned when it comes to their engineering mindset and processes. It takes forever to get things approved at New Firm, and some projects end up dying in development because of it, whereas Current Firm is always doing really cool things in teapot engineering.
    – Current Firm has better opportunities to collaborate with other engineer teams, and will occasionally allow extended work on short-term projects outside of the Teapot department, which I'm very interested in.
    – This sounds petty, but the environment at new firm is just worse. New firm has less of a team-based approach, which I hate because I'm very social. New firm's other division (Teapot Support) have just gone through a round of layoffs, and morale is super low. They also have an open floor plan desk arrangement, whereas I currently have a closed office which I love.
    – I have previously worked with, and get along great with the main teammates I'd work with at New Firm, but I just don't "click" as well with New Firm's culture.
    – The idea of leaving Current Firm and going to New Firm indefinitely makes me want to cry.

    The commute, hours, and benefits (including remote working) for both firms are similar enough.

    Thoughts? How unhappy would you be willing to be for an additional $15k/year and a slight promotion? Would it be worth it if it took you a little farther away from your long-term career goals?

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      Oh man, this is such a personal decision. It’s like, “should I marry this man that I respect and get along with but the sex is not the best”? Everybody’s answer is specific to what they value and nobody else’s answer would apply to you. That said, some factors to consider: 1. The known security of liking your coworkers / boss – how important is that to your happiness? (Also knowing that this could change anyway, even if you stayed). 2. How likely is it that you could get a similar offer later if you wanted? Is this your “one chance”? 3. How likely is it you could get back to where you are now if you do something else for a while and realize it’s not for you?

      1. Please help me; I'm indecisive*

        I think it’s really important for me to be in a work environment where I like my coworkers. I really didn’t get along with a person I had to work closely with at my last job, and it was a big factor in me jumping ship.

        I also think I am a really good candidate for other Lead Teapot Engineer positions, as 2 other firms have also tried to headhunt me this year. The only issue is that other firms in this field suffer from the same structural issues as potential New Firm. Current Firm is really a standout in our industry in terms of culture/innovation, even though it is smaller.

        It would also be very hard to return to Current Firm, even though they like me a lot here. This is because Current Firm has really high retention, as people tend to love it here to the point of turning down advancement opportunities elsewhere.

    2. AnotherAlison*

      Option 3, look for a different new job.

      It sounds like you don’t want the new job and don’t like the firm, but there are “cons” at your current job, too. On the other hand, if you make $100,000, it will take you 3 x 5% raises to get a $15,000 raise.

      1. valentine*

        It sounds like you don’t want the new job and don’t like the firm
        Yes. Leave your parents out of it. What would the promotion do for you? Don’t leave just for the promotion or just for the money, without them being part of a goal you’re headed to. Don’t rob Peter to pay Paul.

        Find a job that has what you like of the current one, plus advancement.

    3. CatCat*

      This sounds petty, but the environment at new firm is just worse. New firm has less of a team-based approach, which I hate because I’m very social. New firm’s other division (Teapot Support) have just gone through a round of layoffs, and morale is super low. They also have an open floor plan desk arrangement, whereas I currently have a closed office which I love.

      This is not petty at all. For me, this could be a deciding factor. It doesn’t sound like a place where you’d show up to work everyday and be happy.

    4. Dawn*

      “The idea of leaving Current Firm and going to New Firm indefinitely makes me want to cry.”
      “Current Firm has a LOT of teapot engineers, who I work closely with, and who provide me tons of mentorship.”
      “whereas Current Firm is always doing really cool things in teapot engineering.”

      Don’t do it. The only thing that I’m seeing in you writing in that’s a plus for New Firm is that you will get more money. Everything else is either uncertain (you MIGHT get a promotion) or a flat negative.

      I am really not reading excitement at all from your post, and that’s a big red flag that you won’t enjoy the new job at all.

      1. Sloan Kittering*

        Yeah and it depends on the individual how much money $15K really is. To go to a place you’re pretty sure you’re going to hate, that would not be enough for me – but double my current salary would be, as I could always work there for a year or two to make bank and then run.

      2. Jules the 3rd*

        “– The idea of leaving Current Firm and going to New Firm indefinitely makes me want to cry.”

        What Dawn said. If you’re doing ok financially, it’s not worth the emotional hit.

        If you’d said Current Firm had no advancement opportunities, or you were financially struggling now, that would be different.

        But do look at / talk with your boss about what opportunities there are if no Lead Engineer slots open up within X years (3? 5?). Can you start a new teapot line? Take 10 – 20% of your time to specialize in something obscure? (insert your dream here)

    5. Joy*

      Based on how you talk about it, I wouldn’t take the new job. The money and potential for more money seem to be the only real pros with a lot of job happiness cons, but you say you’re okay for money right now. I’d decline, spend the next year seriously talking to your current management about internal opportunities for advancement and applying to other positions that look like a good fit.

    6. Hope*

      It doesn’t really sound like you want to work at new firm; it sounds more like you’re trying to talk yourself into working there because it’s more $$. If it were me, the office vs. open floor plan would be enough to keep me in current firm. Extra money is nice, but so is work that you enjoy with people you do well with.

      And if leaving makes you want to cry, that’s your answer right there. If you don’t actually *need* the money, stay.

    7. College Career Counselor*

      For me, this is the part that sticks out: “– The idea of leaving Current Firm and going to New Firm indefinitely makes me want to cry.”

      This does not bode well for your long-term happiness, along with the other culture stuff you mentioned. As I tell my students, “the best job in the world doesn’t stay that way for long, if you hate the work, the people, or the environment.”

      1. Aggretsuko*

        “makes me want to cry” rules out the job for me based on THAT alone. Do you want to be crying all the time?

    8. Bostonian*

      Ask for a raise!

      Or stick it out until the next promotion cycle; it sounds like your supervisors value your work, so you could potentially be getting more money soon. (And if you do get the promotion, can try to negotiate for more.)

    9. LPUK*

      I listened to a news item today that said Gallup had done workplace survey that said many people would be willing to halve their pay to work at something they feel passionate, so on that basis alone, a 15% increase to go the other way doesn’t sound like near.y enough, unless you are absolutely destitute. From your description however, all I need to know is that the thought of it makes you cry. Don’t do it.

    11. Forkeater*

      I’m thinking about taking a 15% pay cut to go back to work I much prefer – so yeah, money can’t buy happiness. If money is the only plus, can you have a discussion with your boss? I got a “senior” title and a raise here by opening a casual conversation about how my job duties align more closely with the senior title than what was my actual title. Granted I feel I was very lucky – but you and your current firm seem so well aligned you might be lucky too.

    12. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

      I think the office of your own plus wanting to cry when you think of leaving your current company are clear signs that this is not the right transition for you.

    13. The Ginger Ginger*

      I think you should try to negotiate a raise at your current place. Even if you can’t get 15k worth of a bump, would you feel good about an increase of 5k? Is the money the only pro on the list for new company? And how badly do you need that money?

    14. Not So NewReader*

      The line about going to new firm makes you want to cry, seals it for me.
      Do not do this. Vow to make choices in work and in life where you always feel that you are going toward something that is better. I know i have looked at houses and wanted to cry. I did not buy any of those houses. That wanting to cry is happening for a reason, okay probably more than one reason. Pay attention to it. Put yourself where you think you have the best chance of success.

      In looking at your financial reasons to make the move, I don’t see a strong, strong reason. I’d like to caution you about supporting your parents, please discuss this with an attorney. Giving money to the folks on a regular basis could have legal implications if not handled carefully and with fore-thought.
      You are in a position now that you know your college debt will be paid in less than a decade. This stands as good reason not to rock the current boat. Plus, once that debt is paid off that could become money for your parents, should you work out a plan for helping them.

      In short I don’t see a strong (enduring) reason here for taking this new job. Your old boss likes you and that is flattering. But we do not have to accept offers from everyone who flatters us. We have to look to see how their offer meshes with us/our goals/our lives. The icing on the cake, you can already feel the tears associated with the new job. This to me makes it abundantly clear: do not do this.

      On a different day, you may see something else. The difference will be striking, none of what you say here will apply to the next place. And you will have a confidence about your decision that you do not have now.

    15. Not A Manager*

      “The idea of leaving Current Firm and going to New Firm indefinitely makes me want to cry.”

      Don’t do it.

    16. gecko*

      Stay where you are. You like it, you have a comfortable salary, and you get mentorship. I don’t think you should look to be promoted away from your career goals. You’re satisfied now; this new position just doesn’t seem to be enough of a step up to pull at your ambition.

    17. Khlovia*

      “…makes me want to cry.”

      Don’t make yourself cry, please.

      You will be driving to work every morning blinded by tears in your eyes. You are going to wreck your car and spend six months in the hospital. That extra $15K/yr won’t come near to compensating you for that.

      If you were starving in a garret from which you were about to be evicted, then the $15K would be the paramount, indeed the only, factor. But it doesn’t sound as though that is the case here. Don’t talk yourself into thinking that this is the only chance you will ever get for the rest of your life to bump up your salary.

      Tears provide useful information. Pay attention.

  26. Anonymous Educator*

    I’m not the hiring manager, but I’m currently involved in the hiring process for a position at my workplace. One of the candidates sent in a résumé with two jobs listed at the top (that took up about half the space on one page), and then “filled” in the rest with a couple of educational degrees. The weird thing about it is there is well over a decade gap between the last degree and the start of the first of the two jobs listed. I guess if the candidate had had four or five jobs listed and couldn’t fit more, it would make more sense, but the two jobs filled only the top half of one page. Is this a thing? Are people doing this because they think they shouldn’t list what experience they’ve had that isn’t directly related to the job they’re applying for? Everyone on our hiring committee is baffled by this (we may ask the candidate about it later), but I’m just curious what folks here on AaM think.

    For my own résumé, I list pretty much all my post–higher ed jobs (even if they’re not directly related to the position I’m applying for) in reverse chronological order. For some of the older jobs, I have only one short bullet point instead of a whole list of responsibilities and accomplishments, but I still list them.

    1. Jimming*

      People should focus on listing relevant work experience, yes, but gaps like that should be addressed in a cover letter. It also sounds like they don’t have a clear or well-formatted resume based on your description.

    2. Natalie*

      My husband has a slightly similar resume to that (although the gap between the two jobs isn’t remotely as significant) because he’s only listing his relevant experience. A resume is supposed to be a marketing document, not an exhaustive list of every place you’ve worked. For him, including the job that was supposed to be his career position, until he left for health reasons, and then the gap when he wasn’t working at all, doesn’t add anything to the career story he’s trying to tell.

      In comparison, I have all of my post-college jobs because they have a clear progression in responsibility. But, after this job, I’ll probably drop one in particular because I had very little to do there and thus have little to say. But it’s right in the middle of my list, so there will be a gap.

    3. WellRed*

      How long has the candidate been at the jobs listed?
      I graduated 19 years ago, but have been at my current job almost 14 years. Do I really have to list the handful of jobs I held in that five year gap at this point?

      1. Anonymous Educator*

        I’m not talking about a 5-year gap. It’s more like a 15-year gap. And this candidate has not been at any position for 14 years.

    4. JG Wave*

      Is it possible the candidate really doesn’t have other work experience? It might make sense to me if, say, they had a child after finishing their last degree and worked as a stay-at-home parent for a number of years, or had a family health emergency and lived off a different source of income. And if they had only had retail positions or similar, 10-15 years previously, I can see choosing to leave those off the resume entirely.

      1. Anonymous Educator*

        I mean, it could be any number of legitimate things, but that would be presumably something you’d mention in the cover letter (or email that accompanied the résumé)?

        1. Doug Judy*

          Not necessarily. As a woman I’m always afraid of how a potential employer will take the fact I am also a mother. Some don’t care but some still think “oh, she might be as reliable” because kids. Which is dumb, but I’m very wary of mentioning this until I’ve already started a new job.

          They could have put something vague but again who knows. If they are a strong candidate otherwise, it couldn’t hurt to interview them.

          1. Anonymous Educator*

            No, we probably are going to interview the candidate. I just wonder if it’s even worth putting dates on the degrees at all if that highlights the huge gap between the last degree and the first job.

          1. Anonymous Educator*

            That’s what one of my colleagues speculated semi-jokingly, but it very well could be true!

    5. Anonymous Educator*

      Given the follow-up questions people are asking, I guess I was unclear in my initial description.

      The chronology is basically finished last degree in mid-90s. First job listed after that is 2010. And then there are only two jobs listed from 2010 to present.

      Like what happened in the late 90s and the entire aughts?

      1. WellRed*

        Well now I am thinking incarcerated or institutionalized but that’s probably worst case scenario. Or, too many L&O: SVU reruns.

      2. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

        I’m imagining a big career change or an extended period of unemployment for some reason (tried and failed a grad degree? Cared for family? Health problem?) and they just didn’t think to explain it, hoping that you would not notice.

      3. Autumnheart*

        Maybe they’re an older candidate, who graduated in the ’90s and only listed their last 10 years of employment, because of the questionable relevance of jobs held longer ago than that?

        1. Anonymous Educator*

          But if you’re trying to hide your age, why would you list the year you earned your degree?

          1. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

            I don’t think it’s hiding your age so much as leaving out the irrelevant years. I do this on my CV. I have the years listed for my degrees (seems very strange to leave those out) but I only have the last 10 years or so of jobs listed, because until I went back to school in 2001 I worked in a totally different and irrelevant field, and then I spent three years doing a graduate degree. I’m not trying to hide anything but I don’t think an archaeology company cares about my experience answering phones at an insurance company in another country. Not least because I am outside digging holes and never even in the office, let alone speaking to customers.

      5. Jule*

        You’ve already said you know it could be many reasonable things. If this person has the right experience, isn’t it possible to ask them in person instead of casting suspicion on them now?

    6. BRR*

      My initial guesses are they’re trying to hide something or that a lot of people are bad at writing resumes (or a combination).

      1. Anonymous Educator*

        Yeah, that’s what I’m guessing, too. I just wasn’t sure if this was a thing. You know how bad job-seeking advice always come up to be debunked here. I didn’t know if maybe this candidate was part of some trend of just leaving huge gaps of jobs that aren’t directly related to the one you’re applying to.

    7. That Girl From Quinn's House*

      I see you’re in education…is this a role that has direct access to children?

      When I started hiring swim instructors, I had to take a training on how to identify a problem worker who’s been “pass the trash”ed out of several jobs. Weird gaps without an explanation was one, ex: they got fired for being inappropriate with a child and just took it off their resume. Another was references that didn’t quite line up with the resume, ex: based on the job description/duration of employment, you’d expect them to have a good reference from a particular job they had for 3 years, but they instead provided a reference from their 6-week summer job 10 years ago.

      Now obviously, plenty of people have gaps in their employment history for non-nefarious reasons, but it’s a red flag that you should pay close attention to the reasoning they give, the way they answer questions, and the general gut feeling they give you while you’re asking their questions.

    8. Not So NewReader*

      It bothers me to no end that people get all upset over gaps. I guess no one has life events?

      I do explain mine in my cover letter as a preemptive strike. I stayed at my previous job for ten years plus. I quit to go to school full time. I barely got my degree and my husband took sick. Then he passed and I cleaned up his estate. It took me months to talk in full sentences again. But as soon as I had some of my wits back I started applying for jobs. This all left a nice size gap on my resume, that I really didn’t want to go over in an interview. So I mentioned it in my cover letter and that kept people moving along. (Actually some people were scared by it because they realized I was a young widow. So explaining the gap did not always help, sometimes it pushed people away. Maybe this is why your applicant did not explain it. )

      Can I just say that was the hardest thing in the world to see in print? This is my life, seeing it written out that way was not easy. Obviously, I am better now. But if a person can’t write or say it, then they need some space. I would say if the group is so preoccupied with that gap then they should probably move to another applicant. I am here as a witness that there are plenty of employers who are willing to take that chance and hire a person anyway.

  27. Happy Friday*

    After practicing answers to an infinite number of “behavioral interview” questions (i.e., “give me an example of where you used logic to solve a problem,” or “give me an example of a goal you didn’t meet and how you handled it”) I’d like to suggest we start developing some behavioral interview questions for employers that we can ask in return. Something like “tell me a time where you had to clear a roadblock for one of your employees and how you did it” or maybe “tell me a time about when a good employee left and how you handled it.” Any ideas, folks? Let ‘er rip!

    1. DC*

      I love this idea, and I really want to see what the commentariat comes up with! I just finished an interview where we asked the interviewee a million of those, and I would have loved to have questions like that about the company so it was clear they really wanted to get to know the organization.

    2. ArtK*

      Oooh. This is a good question. Possibly a good candidate for an “Ask the Readers.”

      “How do you manage technical (not personality) disputes between co-workers?” “If a project is behind schedule, what is your process for getting it under control?”

      Here’s one that I’d like to ask, but haven’t figured out a way to do it neatly: “How do you handle things when upper management demands things that your team can’t deliver? For example, you’re given a deadline and your team says that the amount of work is twice what can fit in that time”

    3. Happy Friday--Again*

      Thank you for that suggestion, everyone! I’ve emailed Alison with my question. Hopefully I can get some good ideas and turn this into a freelance article or LinkedIn post. (Hopefully, I’ll get a few snarky responses here and there as well, lol)

  28. Black Diamond*

    My workplace doesn’t have a policy against tattoos, and people do have some of their tattoos showing. But I work with a lot of older people and it’s a conservative state (the whole state is very republican.) I’m one of the youngest in the office. I am a new employee, and I’m not really happy here anyways, but, point is that I have a one bigger visible tattoo on my bicep. In previous workplaces, I had people compliment it but never asked the meaning because tattoos were common in my previous office.

    In this workplace, I’ve been keeping it covered with wearing cardigans or blazers, but recently the office has been BLASTING the heat and I am dying. So I removed my cardigan, wore a quarter sleeve shirt to cover my tattoo, but it poked through. Then come the questions about “the meaning, why would you get it, what’s the story?” I don’t mind people asking these questions but I also don’t want to discuss the meaning behind it because it’s very personal. I have said kindly, “It has a very personal meaning to me.” Smiled, changed the subject. But this doesn’t satisfy my coworkers! They keep pushing and asking and once I gave a fake answer of “It reminds me of God.” Because a lot of people are Christian here so I figured that would satisfy, but MORE PUSHING!

    Do I have to give them a full story of the meaning of my tattoo? This happens with strangers too. But I’m more comfortable with brushing them off. I don’t understand why they feel like they have to keep pushing me for an answer. “Well, you got it to be looked at right since it’s on your arm? Why can’t you tell us the story?” Is what one coworker said.

    I wish I was never hot :(

    1. WK*

      I don’t have any advice for this except to say your coworkers are weird and rude and pushy. I think it’s fine to ask ONCE about a visible tattoo, but if the person is giving signs they don’t really want to talk about it you let it go. Geesh.

    2. Joy*

      I’d boring baroque them a whole tale about the tattoo – thinking aboht getting one, admiring other tattoos, choosing an artist, blah blah blah, that is based enough on truth that you can keep it consistent but avoids the emotional details you feel are private and focuses on mundane things. Like “oh I thought about getting a tattoo since I was a kid and loved animals but which one? I thought about elephants but I didn’t think that would look very elegant – elephants aren’t very elegant, are they? If you got an animal tattoo what would be your choice? I settled on beavers because I saw one on a trip once and I love their reputation for industry…”

      1. LCL*

        Yes! This is my tactic for things, but I’d never heard ‘boring baroque’. I’m going to borrow that description.

      2. Rainy*

        I have a tattoo of a food item (I can’t be specific in case someone I know reads AAM! It’s so distinctive) and I get questions A LOT when it’s visible, and sometimes I tell the story because it’s super super long and also pointless? And I like watching people who thought they were going to pry start to squirm with boredom as I go on and on and on.

    3. Anon Admin*

      Asking a personal question, instead of answering, will sometimes get them to stop. “Jane, when did you start coloring your hair? Well, it’s on your head so it’s meant to be noticed right?” Or maybe “I’ve said it’s personal. It’s not up for discussion. Do you have the TPS report?”

    4. Dame Judi Brunch*

      Those people are rude to keep pushing for an answer! You’re handling it beautifully. It seems like they are interested and trying to talk to you about it, but not going about it correctly.
      I don’t understand why conservative/Republican equates to we don’t like tattoos. That must be a holdover from a different era.

    5. Seifer*

      I have two big tattoos on my forearms, and no one has given me crap about them at my current workplace. At my previous, more conservative workplace… here’s what I did.

      First, “thanks! (even if they didn’t compliment it) I don’t really talk about my tattoos at work though since they’re a personal thing.” And then walk away, immediate subject change, whatever, etcetera.

      If they push, ie, why would you get it there if you didn’t want people to look at it, I say, “people can look, I just don’t want to talk about it.” And then if I get the dreaded, but whhhyyy, I say, “I really don’t want to talk about my body with my coworkers.”

      And then I walk away. Because I want to make the point that I don’t want to talk, and also I don’t want to listen to the huffy, “well, I was just asking, no need to get so defensive!” I once, however, was talking to someone else that asked about it and then the huffy person was like, “oh, she won’t tell you, apparently it’s personal,” to which I replied, “yup, thanks! So yeah, the policy for origami shipping when I worked in that department…”

      Huffy Person never gave up. But I don’t work there anymore, so she will never know what my tattoos mean.

    6. INeedANap*

      Honestly, I tell people who ask about my tattoos: “Oh, no deep meaning or special story! I just love how it looks.” Shuts down the conversation right away.

    7. Hope*

      Honestly, a lot of them probably think they *are* being polite by asking about it. Like, that they think it’s cool you have it, and they find it interesting/neat/whatever, so they’re trying to engage with you and they’re asking about it to show you that they don’t think there’s anything wrong with having a tattoo. Like finding out someone goes sky-diving on the weekends and asking questions about what it’s like because it’s interesting new info/insight into that person, even though the people asking would never go sky-diving themselves. I’m not saying it’s not annoying (people are so weird about this stuff), but I bet that’s why they keep pushing for the story–they want you to know they’re not like those “other” people who disapprove of tattoos, and they’re going about it in exactly the opposite way that they should.

      You don’t have to give them the full story, or any story, though. Tell them that it’s just not something you want to talk about, and you’d rather focus on discussing work/etc. . Eventually the curiosity will die down and something else will be the new thing.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        I agree, your easiest and probably most amicable way out is to treat it like they are just making conversation.
        It would probably be handy to have a standard answer in the future so why not craft a standard answer?
        “I love elephants. No bigger picture story on this, I just love elephants.”
        OR
        “It’s really not that interesting. I adore the work of the artist who did this. So I felt this was a good representation of what I like about his work.”
        OR
        “My mom/sis/BFF have a similar tattoo. It’s like a thing we share.”

        To the ones who want the meaning explained, remember the artist does not stand in front of their work at the art museum and explain it to people. It’s a general idea that you can repeat, “Art means whatever it means to each person. It’s whatever you see, that’s what it is. This is how it goes in the world of art.”

    8. E*

      I think in this case you might be able to end the questions by just going with “I got it because I liked it, that’s all”. Meaning, no story will be told here, so move on folks.

      1. Joielle*

        Yep, this is what I do. Some of mine have meaning, some of them don’t, but if I don’t want to talk about it, I just say “I thought it was pretty!” Nobody can really disagree with that without being rude so that pretty much shuts it down.

    9. LKW*

      You owe them no more explanation about a tattoo than you would about a hair cut, jewelry, shoe choice or facial hair choices.

      Which is none. You owe them no explanations.

      However, if you want to have fun with it I suggest using all of the below statements:

      – Oh, well I wanted to celebrate my love of hot dogs.
      – Oh, it’s quite meaningful. I mean it’s full of meaning. I mean, you know what I mean you know?
      – What is it? Well it’s a tattoo. You know… taaaaa tooooooo

    10. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      Yup… your first mistake was to be cagey about it. While I agree you shouldn’t have to tell people things you don’t want to. But, that being said… just give them a story. Make it up… lie… tell them a tale. You are really not obligated to tell the truth.

      Just make something up and use it as your ‘I don’t want to answer- answer’.

    11. LilySparrow*

      What I’ve found works with folks like this is to just smile and smile and say something noncommittal like you did, “It’s a personal thing,” or “It’s special” or “It’s private.” They may well continue to ask questions – your frustration here is in thinking that you have to respond to their questions at all.

      You don’t.

      You can just smile and shrug. And then go about your business. Pick up something, work on it/read it. If they keep talking, pretend you zoned out. “Hm, what? Oh, no – like I said, that’s personal.” And smile, and turn back to your work and totally, completely ignore them.

      That may feel rude, but it’s not. It’s a very civil and controlled response to their appalling rudeness.

    12. Chriama*

      Saying “it has a personal meaning” is like saying “there’s a very interesting story here that I’m not going to share with you.” Just say “I’m not sure, the tattoo artist had some designs and I picked this one because it looked cool.”

      In other words, you are currently telling everyone that there’s a secret here. Explicitly stating a very boring story is more likely to get people off your back.

      1. Jasnah*

        This! In my less-aware days, I asked a friend what their tattoo meant, was given an “it’s personal”/”wait till we know each other better” answer. I was dying with curiosity and eventually they told me. I don’t even remember what the story was now, but I got the dopamine rush of “they trusted me with their secret.”

        You can thwart past-me by giving a super boring answer, rather than dangling a thread of “this is an interesting story that you can pester me to get at”.

    13. Not A Manager*

      “Well, you got it to be looked at right since it’s on your arm? Why can’t you tell us the story?”

      Aw, geez. I know that everyone else is right to suggest a bland response, but honestly what that would get from me would be “I am never going to tell you the story of my tattoo, so stop asking me.”

      1. Teach*

        I am really interested in custom, artistic, and unusual tattoos because I really want one! I have asked questions of others but hopefully not in a pushy manner. I guess mainly I have complimented and hoped they took that as an opening to talk about it if they wanted to.

        1. Quoth the Raven*

          I don’t really mind being asked, myself, but the hardest questions for me to answer are why I got my tattoos (since many people are not satisfied merely with “I liked it”) and their meaning (because sometimes there is no meaning beyond “I thought it was pretty). Not that it bothers me at all, but I’ve found they’re the questions that tend to lead to criticism the most, or they might have stories that are private. That said, most other questions (where I got it, who made it, do you have any recommendations, etc) are pretty interesting! Especially if you tell me you’re asking because you want to get one, I’m more willing to talk about them.

          I think, as long as you don’t press and insist when the other person is clearly not into talking about them, you should be good.

  29. thankfullyAnAdultNow*

    I have a hypothetical problem which has been eating at me, which is related to work and also my personal history. (tw for uh? mentions of rape jokes and bad consent stuff)
    When I was 17, I dated a 21 year old man who was skeevy in a bunch of ways. On many occasions he tried to pressure me into doing (sexual) things I didn’t want to do and didn’t stop trying to pressure me until I removed myself from his presence. He also once, as an attempted? compliment? said that he would have raped me in public (yes, using the word rape) if I had worn something different. I tried to explain that was a bad joke, that continuing to ask after I said no wasn’t cool, etc etc and he never seemed to make any progress understanding. And then he lied after I dumped him and told everyone at work that he dumped me. Did I mention we worked in the same place? We did.
    He also bragged to me about figuring out a way to plagiarize without getting in trouble in his college classes (which may or may not have been true), and he regularly told jokes which were racist/sexist at the work breakroom. Nothing surprising in that environment, but not great nonetheless.
    This was many years ago and it wasn’t until recently that I remembered that the field he was planning to go into is the field I’m in now. It’s a tech thing and I work for one of the largest employers for this field in a city he said he liked and considered moving to. It’s very unlikely that this will ever happen- but if I were to somehow end up either being aware of him interviewing with this company or being considered for my team specifically, would it be appropriate for me to bring up this history with HR or my manager? I will say that I would look for a different job and possibly even quit without having a different job lined up if I was forced to work with him in a situation where we would interact again. Even if he has grown as a person, I don’t think I could feel safe in his presence. The relationship was awful as it happened in a lot of ways and it feels worse now especially with the rearview knowledge of “oh god 17 years old is practically a baby” and “he was specifically attracted to me bc I looked somewhere between 12 and 14 years old, as he and many people around me at the time acknowledged”.
    This hypothetical has been bothering me since it occurred to me and I think I’ll be able to stop being anxious about it once I’m able to plan what my response would be.

    1. thankfullyAnAdultNow*

      Just so it’s clear: if the response from people is, “Yeah, I really don’t think you can bring this up with anyone at your work,” that will also allow me to stop worrying about this. I just need to have a clear plan-of-action set up, whether that’s a script or just the knowledge that if he gets interviewed I’ll hope he doesn’t get hired and quit if he does.

    2. INeedANap*

      If he was actually being interviewed by your work, I think you could say to the relevant person something like: “Hey, Dude and I have a personal and professional history together. He acted in racist and sexist ways and I feel unsafe and uncomfortable around him. I don’t expect you to base a hiring decision on this, I just want to let you know upfront that I cannot work with him and that I would need to leave if he was hired here.”

      This is a risky thing to say. The right person will take it professionally and not hold it against you. Unfortunately, we all know that the right person isn’t always the person you’re dealing with. But if you’re at a place where you’d be quitting anyways, then I think it’s an acceptable risk.

      With that having been said, it sounds like your anxiety around this right now is just general. There’s no reason to think you would be put in this situation, so if possible I would also look for ways to manage the anxiety.

      1. Chriama*

        If she’s a known and well-liked quantity, this is a reasonable thing to say. People might hold it against her but that doesn’t mean it’s inherently unprofessional of her to bring it up. Whether or not they hold it against her, she was prepared to leave over it anyways. So it’s not like there’s anything to lose.

    3. WK*

      I think you could 100% go to HR and say “I have a personal history with this person such that I wouldn’t feel safe working around them.” I don’t think you need to go into any more detail. If you are definitely willing to leave vs. working with him again, you have literally nothing to lose. The worst case scenario is that they ignore your warning and you leave, which is what you would have done anyway if you hadn’t gone to them in the first place.

      Also for the record I’m sorry you had this experience and good for 17-year-old you for dumping him!

      1. Not So NewReader*

        I like this response a lot. It puts the ball in their court and you do not paint yourself into a corner by promising to quit. Yet you can quit at any time, you have options.

        I am sorry this happened to you, also. Bravo for standing up for you.

        1. Jasnah*

          I like it too, but I also think you could add something to the effect of, “I’m also concerned about how he would treat other women and minorities here based on his past actions.” Or something that states that this is not just a personal issue between the two of you, but that he has -ist issues that would make any company want to steer clear.

          Also if it is helpful for you, I want to also give you permission to stop worrying about this. Ultimately you can’t control the outcome of this–only your company can–so I think it’s great you’re looking for appropriate ways to influence it, but if (IF) he happens to apply at your company and they decide to hire him anyway, it’s not on you. It’s not your fault, it’s not your job to prevent him from harming/being a jerk to others, it’s not your responsibility to protect the company/other people from him. You’ve already done an amazing job standing up for yourself and thinking of ways to keep yourself safe, so if it makes you feel better to hear this, I give you permission to stop worrying, and you have done enough. Internet hugs if you want them.

    4. Suspendersarecool*

      My condolences for going through that. But I’d worry about it if it happens. It’s a pretty unlikely scenario and not worth stressing over. We’ll be here every Friday!

      1. No Tribble At All*

        I think we’ve had someone to write in about a similar question, and the response was you can 100% say “I have personal history with this person and would feel unsafe working with them.”

    5. matcha123*

      It’s not something I would bring up. For one, 21 is not an age where people are making the best decisions. Two, it sounds like a bad relationship and not something that really has anything to do with work. Finally, from my perspective, it doesn’t reflect well on your decision making skills.

      If you are going to quit a job because he is working there, that is totally your prerogative. But unless I missed something, it doesn’t sound like he’s actively interviewing at your workplace?

      As for 17 being a baby, I would venture a guess that at 17 you probably saw yourself as “mature” and would have balked at an adult saying that 17 is too young to be dating a 21 year old (which I personally think it is and when I was a teen I was not at all interested in older men, so I never understood girls that were).
      Maybe there are other things missing that could be relevant, but it all around sounds like a bad relationship, embarrassing and the guy wasn’t mature at all.

      1. Joielle*

        Wow. This is incredibly unhelpful, judgmental, and if I may say so, dickish. So a 21-year-old is “not making the best decisions” but a 17-year-old “sees themselves as mature” and therefore is more responsible? YIKES.

        A 21-year-old is an adult. This was a racist, sexist, rapey adult man, and OP is smart to not want to ever interact with him again. If I was interviewing someone so awful that one of my existing employees would quit rather than be forced to work with that person, I’d certainly want to know that! OP, if I were you I’d plan to mention it to the hiring manager if it ever comes up. No need to make a big deal of it right away, but something like “Hey, I heard you were planning to interview Jerky McRapeface for the analyst position. I don’t want to cause drama and I feel a little awkward bringing it up, but I wanted you to know that I know him and I wouldn’t feel safe working with him. I can give more details if you need them, but I thought I should mention it.”

        1. matcha123*

          Uh, first of all, I personally think that a 21 year old trying to date a 17 year old is disgusting.
          Second, why the selective reading? I did not say that a 17 year old needs to be more mature than a 21 year old. However as many posters here have written themselves, their minds were not all in the right place when they were in their early 20s.
          We had the Duck Club from a few years ago and the guy that insisted on calling some older female coworkers “mom.” If those people were immature, surely this guy was/is, too.
          And I have to make clear that being immature isn’t justification for treating someone badly.

          Finally, we are not talking about a 21 year old and a 5 or 10 year old. A four-year age difference is something that many members of our society feel is acceptable, especially at the ages the OP was.
          I, personally feel that 17 is way too young to be dating someone in their 20s. However, a lot of society disagrees with me. So, what is it?

          Sorry, I get a lot of hate from people because I think that teens shouldn’t be trying to date older people and that older people, men in particular, that target teens to date are, to be blunt, disgusting. I cannot count the number of times when I’ve read “I might have been 17, but I was mature and now we’ve been happily married for X number of years.”

          Is the point, for the OP, that there was an age difference and the guy was creepy or that the guy was creepy? I would focus on the creepy part rather than the 4 year age difference which, again, to ME is unacceptable, but to much of society is fine.

      2. Combinatorialist*

        Your partner making jokes that they are going to rape you is not a “bad relationship”. It is an abusive one.

      3. Rainy*

        You seem…not nice.

        OQ, please disregard all of this, especially the weirdly victim-blamey stuff about you being exploited by an adult when you were an adolescent.

      4. Not So NewReader*

        She was 17. In my state he could have been headed for the sex offender registry. So yeah, it does matter. More importantly, right now OP is not comfortable around this person. It’s a good life habit to build a plan for any concern we may face.

    6. Nita*

      But do you have any reason to think that he may apply at your job? For all you know, he may have self-destructed years ago and may be working some minimum-wage job that has nothing to do with your field. Maybe try finding him on Google or LinkedIn to see whether your fears are even a possibility. If they are, the responses here are giving some great advice about talking to HR if he interviews or gets hired at your job.

  30. TallTeapot*

    How to deal with an employee, who when asked to do even a small task outside of his/her worplan (our yearly planning document on which we are evaluated), gets visibly angry, frustrated and irate with that person and others? It is a small office, not all people can or should do purchasing, so it makes sense to have an admin do this work. But the bad attitude is affecting her professionally and souring relationships. How best to address this?

    1. Coffee Bean*

      If you are the manager simply stating “part of your job is to maintain good working relationships with your coworkers. That means when they ask for your help, you help them and you don’t get worked up about it. If you have concerns about your workload you can bring those up to me and I will help you prioritize”

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Yep. She has failed to do a major component of the job, so this is probably a writable thing if it keeps going on.
        Displays of anger, frustration and irritation are not acceptable because it interferes with working relationships and work flows. It’s detrimental to the daily operations of the company and cannot be tolerated.

        Take with one hand give with the other.
        Ask her why she has so much upset over simple requests.

    2. Hooray College Football (I hate the offseason)*

      We have a category of work called “Other duties as assigned.” Maybe add this to their workplan so they can’t complain?
      I’m sure others will have ideas on how to address it directly in the meantime. There has to be some language that would talk them off that ledge.

  31. >:(*

    I’m. Getting. Ghosted. Again.

    I don’t know what it is but I interviewed at a university for a faculty position. Everything went accordingly (including an all day interview). They asked for letters of recommendation from my references. Crickets for over a month. W.T.F.

    This it’s like the fourth time. Do companies/employers just not have common decency anymore? (Btw this is a university that’s always makes the top 10-20 in college polls for best university)

    1. Anonforthis*

      Pretty common, unfortunately. I’m sorry, it’s really frustrating. Can you follow up with your contact person and just ask for an update?

      1. >:(*

        I have been (unfortunately) and I haven’t even gotten a “hi, were just waiting on some red tape. You know how it is lol”

    2. Ama*

      Universities are notoriously slow in hiring especially for faculty and if you interviewed a month ago it may have been during the semester break, which bogs things down even more (between people being on vacation and then people needing to focus on start of semester priorities before they get to everything else).

      I worked for a newish grad school for awhile that was hiring multiple faculty a year and I don’t think we ever resolved a hiring process with only a month between interviews and offers — just getting a time when the full hiring committee could meet to discuss candidates was a chore.

    3. Paige*

      Universities take FOREVER. Period. Months is pretty normal–I was on one hiring committee that took months just between drafting the position posting and the phone interviews. Another couple of months between those and the in person interviews. Then at least another month before the offer, because of various things (when multiple people on the committee have conflicting schedules, this makes everything take much longer, too). The person didn’t start until 4 months after we made the offer. So while you should definitely keep looking, don’t assume you’ve been ghosted just yet.

      What’s really fun is when you do all of that, someone accepts, then a couple weeks before they start, they decide to decline, and then you have to scramble to get back in touch with your #2 or #3 choice to see if they’re even still available (and if not, then yay, you get to do everything over again!).

    4. Scribbles*

      Sorry. This is so frustrating. I’ve been ghosted at all stages many times (after being asked when I’m available to schedule an interview, after phone screenings, after in-person interviews) so I think it’s common nowadays.

      Once, at the end of a phone screening, the recruiter made a big deal out of how they NEVER ghost people and how horrible it is to ghost people. That was several months ago and I still haven’t heard back from them.

      I remember one interviewer telling me they’d get back to me within a few days, so I followed up two weeks later after not hearing from them. The response was literally “Our new hire started two weeks ago.” No apologies or explanations for not letting me know like they said they would. Felt really horrible so I just don’t bother following up with anyone anymore. I assume no one is interested in hiring me unless I get an offer.

      1. >:(*

        That is just so…. After reading that LA times (?) Article about job candidates ghosting their employers, having received the reverse of it is so…. Frustrating is one word. Rude is another (“Rude” a la Hannibal Lector).

    5. Thing1*

      Having been on the academic job market for three years now, very normal. Usually it seems that they won’t send out a rejection until a contract has been signed–so that includes all the campus visits, the time deciding who to offer to, the time for the candidate to negotiate and decide, then if that person doesn’t take it repeating the whole process with the second choice. For most TT jobs, I’ve gotten a rejection email (if I’ve gotten one) a minimum of 4 weeks after long-list interviews, or about 2 months after the application was due. And some never do send them. It’s really frustrating, but it just seems to be another annoying thing about academia.

      The most delayed rejection I got was 18 months later, well after the position would have started.

    6. Tenure track librarian*

      A month. That is nothing for a University. Applied in January. Crickets until May-on site interview. Crickets. May to Juny. June phone interview. Crickets. August. on site interview. Weekly requests for information and a phone interview. Last week in August. Job offer.

      1. Dankar*

        It’s hilariously bad! I was getting rejected from positions I had forgotten I applied to 8 months after I started in my current position. Which is also an academic job, and took the typical university time frame to secure.

      2. >:(*

        …. Omg. Why. Why?! I know academia lives in bubbles but that’s a bit extreme, isn’t it? Tell me I’m not the only one who thinks that. If anyone follows TheProfessorIsIn on social media, she’s great at giving some context that reassures me that I’m not completely crazy.

        (Record/update: I had applied last year for the position with the expected delays. It will be coming up one year soon but in all honesty it’s better than other places I never hear back from.)

    7. Sara without an H*

      Are you sure you’ve really been ghosted, or are you just the victim of a very slow hiring process? I served on a search committee once where our chair calculated that the process, from job posting to offer letter, would take nine months. The bad jokes flew thick and fast.

    8. That Girl From Quinn's House*

      My husband did the faculty circuit a few years ago, it’s rough! My condolences.

      His field is small enough that he was able to put out feelers and find out from colleagues at those schools why he got passed over for certain jobs. In the situations where he was ghosted, it was because he was the 2nd choice candidate, and the university had entered negotiations with the first choice candidate but wanted to keep the possibility open with him in case the first choice candidate fell through. So it might be a good thing!

  32. StellaBella*

    Need some advice:

    TL;DR: I have a verbal job offer! So …what are the Top 3 things to do / avoid when you begin working at a start-up? (It is an education focused org, growing from 15 ppl now to 30 by June)? Tell me what to do, what to avoid, please if you’ve got any insights. I will be in MarComms (Marketing Communications).

    Long version:

    So – looks like I may have a new job! I have to see/sign the contract still and wait for the reference checks to complete, but was welcomed yesterday, have coffee Monday with some team members, and I am super excited! It is in an academic setting – and a role in comms and marketing – and well…. I could not be more excited.

    It is in a education start-up and working with a variety of people – teachers, researchers, and the support/leadership staff.

    What should I do / avoid as part of a start-up? I have worked in the start-up space previously, but from the NGO / non-profit side of things – and on start-up teams inside of a large software firm. So… do you have Top 3 things to do / avoid that you can share with me? I will be in Marketing/Comms and will be given a lot of free reign to do some cool work. It is very hands-on, too, which I love. And demands flexibility and ability to flow with things which I am looking forward to, also.

    From 2008-2017 I worked in the non-profit realm, and had some terrific experiences but also had 2 very toxic experiences (including 4 bosses in 9 months at one place, the place where the founder (now board member), in a recent board meeting, was denouncing the director he picked (she is terrible and caused a 90% staff turnover in a year – by doing things like inviting people from a division of the Government of Taiwan to go to a Chinese restaurant – completely politically unaware in a very demanding role requiring politically astute leadership)…I had a burnout, got very sick in April 2017, quit, took 18 months off, got an MSc in the UK, and am back now interviewing and this role is awesome. It is not focused on my MSc topic, but will allow me to use the skills I learned, and others and I feel that there will be a lot of trust and new challenges! So any advice you may have on this would be great. :) Looking forward to working again!

    1. MountainMeg*

      Congratulations!

      I think one thing I would mention (as a fellow Marketing professional) is that often startups don’t necessarily know what they want from marketing. It’s up to you to tease out the actual expectations (which sometimes are different from the stated expectations) So, for instance, if they say they want a new website, I would be sure to ask ALL of the questions before you get started. What is the goal? How will we measure success? What’s the deadline? What’s the budget? Who will do the work? etc.

      Another thing I would definitely do is track ALL of your work. Implement really solid analytics procedures and follow them. Make sure your bosses see that analysis and attach the value of your work to actual revenue they’re receiving. Insist on investing in the tools necessary to analyze your efforts. Not only is this job protection for you, but it also helps you make really educated decisions on what’s working and what’s not.

      Congrats, again!! I can tell that you’re passionate about the topic which will really help!

  33. The Second to Last Airbender*

    Is there a way of asking your manager to feed your ego just little? I feel really unappreciated and unvalued at work and while I have every reason to believe my manager is pleased with my performance, she doesn’t show it. Her background is in something else and she just doesn’t get excited about what I do; partially I think because she doesn’t understand when I do something well. She does get excited about other things and lets people know when they do a great job. I’m not asking for constant praise, I just need a little sustenance.

    1. The Rain In Spain*

      do you have regular meetings? you can bring up your work/performance then and seek feedback. if not, you can always set up a meeting. i would couch it in terms of wanting to check in and make sure you’re on track with your goals for the year/etc. be prepared to talk about how things are going. it’ll open the door for you to ask if she’s happy with your performance and if there areas you need to focus on improving.

    2. JustAskingForAFriend*

      This happened to me! I even had talked to a therpist about it and she suggested that I tell my boss when I did something that I thought was notable. She ignored it….

      …until my annual review.
      Boss: “Remember when you asked me if I could let you know when you do a good job on something? … Do you know what your annual compensation is?”
      Me: “You mean including my insurance and everything?”
      Boss: “It’s [this number]. That’s what we pay you for. We pay you to do your job and not make mistakes.”
      Me:
      Boss:
      Me, losing it: “You know, you’re the reason I went to see a therapist last summer.”

      Chaos ensued. I think now she’s scared of the fact that I have seen a medical professional and have documentation of my anxiety being caused by her/this environment.

      She thinks, shovel money at someone so they “get over” being treated like crap. Interesting, huh?

      1. WellRed*

        I’m sorry this happened to you but I love that you actually told her she was the reason for the therapist!

      2. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

        Oh dear… that didn’t go well did it.

        So not hearing what a great job you are doing = being treated like crap? Unless there’s a much larger backstory here, I think you went way overboard here.

        1. JustAskingForAFriend*

          The backstory is really long and culminated in me needing therapy. She’s a professional gaslighter and of the 8 salaried employees, 5 hate it here. One that doesn’t is her daughter’s BFF and another is an ex-boyfriend of the daughter’s. This is the place where someone left in June, and it was December before 2 of his employees realized that one of them was supposed to be managing the other.

  34. RMNPgirl*

    I am so exhausted. My company went live on our new computer system Monday night and this week has been hell. We had a team (which I was part of) working on the new system for a year, which was too aggressive of a timeline but the executive team would not even consider pushing back. So we had to put in long hours so we could go live on schedule and it’s been a cluster****. We’ve had so many issues, many of which would not have happened if we could have had more time.
    What makes it worse is we’re a 24/7 operation so staff on the off shifts are really struggling and I’m having to stay late to help them out (I’m the supervisor over the two 24/7/365 departments). I’m just burning out because I’m on day 12 of working and eat day is 10-12 hours and I have no idea when my next day off is.
    For others who have been through computer system changes, it gets better right?

    1. noahwynn*

      Oh I feel your pain. The airline I work for is in the middle of a huge software transition right now. I think we are all frustrating IT because they didn’t truly understand how integrated everything is and how much documentation and manuals we have to change, receive government approval for, and complete training on BEFORE we can switch over.

  35. NopeNopeNope*

    This week the boss has graduated from using the bathroom with the door open (all the bathroom things, including bathing in the kitchen sink) to undoing his pants whilst having a conversation with me in the hall.

    I am so so over this job.

    6. NopeNopeNope*

      I should clarify the pants were being undone to use the bathroom down the hall (and down the hall, not like 2 feet away), but he did stop me to ask me something and then proceeded to undo his pants while talking.

        1. NopeNopeNope*

          Yes. Hopefully sooner rather than later. I’ve been aggressively job hunting for a few weeks now, so I’m hoping for some movement in the coming weeks

      1. NopeNopeNope*

        Oh he lives here. Like we’re in a typical industrial office with an illegal bedroom in one of the offices that he lives in. Which was hard enough to get over on it’s own as its super weird, but the escalation of him treating this place like his home with bathroom habits apparently is the hard line of Nope for me.

        I’m so glad other people find this as out of line as me. When I mentioned it to another coworker they all just shrug like “Boss will be boss”.

    8. Bored IT Guy*

      “No, it’s ok. Nothing I’m going to say or do while I’m at the office requires you to be pantsless. Please button your pants”

      Or, (and this is probably better), go straight to HR, do not pass go, do not collect $200.

      1. Mellow*

        >“Nothing I’m going to say or do while I’m at the office requires you to be pantsless. Please button your pants”

        I feel like I’m witnessing a conversation involving Michael Scott. ;)

    10. Camellia*

      You could always try pointing and laughing. Or throwing up on him. Or a least make a McPuke face with some genteel gagging noises.

  36. urban teacher*

    4 more months of teaching and I may still end up quitting with fish. I have a paraprofessional who told me the first day that she didn’t want to work with the kids because they were so low, a lead teacher who refused to do anything about the para not doing anything and 8 boys with autism who make noise the whole day. I finally met with principal and informed him about the lack of support and the lead teacher telling the para if she “stepped up to the plate” she could have my job next year since I’m leaving.
    I’m applying to public administration jobs after next week and can’t wait to use everything I’ve learned here.

    2. Middle School Teacher*

      It makes me so sad to hear these things. The profession is crying out for teachers but then hangs them out to dry this way. I took myself out of the public system for this reason (I’m in a charter school now). I hope you land on your feet!

    4. bookartist*

      I hate reading these things. Please consider that this audience also includes parents and relatives of kids with autism.

      I hope you get out of your current situation too, and these kids get into a better environment so they can learn how to get along in the world.

      1. matcha123*

        This is the reality that many kids are in. No amount of internet shaming or tsk-tsking is going to change their circumstances.
        It is great that she is speaking out about the situation. I worked at a kindergarten and one boy in my class most definitely had autism and was mostly non-verbal. There was a severe lack of staff and no one had specialized training to deal with him. Some of the teachers just yelled at him.
        The way to get these kids the help they need is to pay people wages that reflect the value they bring to our society, create environments that are helpful with a good number of staff and dialogue with parents.

        Sorry if I read your post wrong, but it sounded like you were trying to take the OP to task for being frustrated at working with kids with autism and being in an unsupportive environment…

  37. KayEss*

    I think it just depends on whether it’s a blouse that is meant to be tucked in or not? Wearing a blouse that is supposed to be tucked in untucked would definitely read as sloppy, but I feel like most business casual women’s blouses are designed either specifically to be worn untucked or so they can be worn either way.

    (How do you determine whether your blouse is designed to be tucked in or not? I actually have no idea. I think it has something to do with the shape and finishing of the hem? But I’m personally so averse to tucking in my shirts that I’m okay with wearing a to-be-tucked one untucked and letting people think I’m an eccentric slob.)

  38. a llama*

    TL;DR: What do I do about my manager bringing up important or difficult conversations, but then deferring them? What would be the right language to use to bring them up myself without making it sound scary and unpleasant? Or should I even bother?

    More context: I’m in a small department of 4, part of a larger unit of 15. A couple months ago our company sent out an anonymous employee satisfaction survey, for the first time in the 3.5 years I’ve worked here.

    Historically , my organization doesn’t really do upwards feedback, so I was pleasantly surprised when our larger unit had an awkward but productive conversation about the results.

    Since then, my direct manager has brought up the survey multiple times, usually in a “We can and should definitely have a conversation about the survey as a whole, but in the meantime lets talk about [x topic that is sort of related but not really getting at anything substantial]”. She’s also sort of danced around asking me directly if I filled it out. But of course its been weeks and since she hasn’t put it in any of our agendas, I dont think its ever going to happen, unless one of us forces it.

    For context, I like my manager as a person, and I respect her professionally, but this is her first job managing people – she joined the organization not too long before I did. She is very good at the project management and more technical aspects of her role, and I get the impression she wants to be open to feedback and willing to have these conversations because she knows its what she’s supposed to do as a manager, but actually dreads it and avoids it whenever possible. For example, in the past she’s handed down mild negative feedback (like “you’re making too many typos and I need you to take another pass”) in a very awkward “the less said about this the better” (she uses that exact phrase actually), eye contact avoiding way.

    I guess my long-winded question is whether I should try and make the conversation happen anyway, and if so how I could do so without making it seem like I want to criticize her performance (even if some of our feedback would probably be related to how she manages)… or if I should just let it go, and assume that any problems are things I’ll just have to deal with.

    1. Rey*

      The next time she brings it up, specifically say, “You’ve mentioned this before, but it hasn’t made it on the agenda. What meeting should I add this to?” If she’s still reluctant after that, I would just let it go, because I don’t think you can get any more direct.

  39. Ann O'Nemity*

    Advice for keeping a retiring employee engaged?

    One of my favorite employees is retiring at the end of the year. Since that was announced, she’s not nearly as productive. How can I keep her engaged for the next 10 months?

    1. Anonforthis*

      Is there any particular reason to have such a long run-up to the retirement? It sounds like she’s checked out, so I’d try to shorten that period if possible.

      1. OperaArt*

        If she’s vested in a pension, there’s usually an optimal age to retire. Retiring even a few months before reaching that birthday results in a smaller income for the test of a person’s life.

      2. Ann O'Nemity*

        She’s been hinting at retirement for a few years, actually. We solidified the date as end of the year, due in part to some social security and budgetary concerns on her part.

    2. OtterB*

      Is it the kind of role where the person can think about legacy? What do they want to leave behind for the organization?

      Sharing knowledge with coworkers? Training for the tasks someone else will be taking over, but also sharing institutional history?

      Mentoring newer employees?

    3. WellRed*

      I”d flat out discuss it with her and ask if we should move up the retirement date as she seems checked out, less productive and unengaged. If nothing else, it should put her on notice that its unacceptable and may result in loss of job before she’s ready. Or she may be ready to go now and you can help her with that.

      1. Ann O'Nemity*

        I’m reluctant to go with the “stick.” This is a long-time, extremely valued, and well-loved employee. I wouldn’t want to push her out early if I can help it! I’ll raise the issue and see if it’s something she wants, but her work would have to really deteriorate before I forced her out.

        3. Dr. Anonymous*

          What if you talk with her, tell her what you’ve noticed, and remind her that she’s a valuable employee up to her last day and you need her? She may feel like she’s being put out to pasture.

    4. Doug Judy*

      Will you be replacing the position? If so include her in the search/interview/transfer of duties processes.

    5. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      I’ve seen otherwise exemplary employees implode in the time leading up to retirement. I’d keep a close eye on her. Since you’ve noticed that things are starting to slide, I’d have a pretty direct conversation with her.

      “Retiring Rita, It must be pretty exciting to think about retiring at the end of this year. I’m sure that you are still getting used to the idea. I wanted to talk about the time we have left together. I’ve noticed that you -whatever you have observed-. Look, I get it, you’ve had a long and great career and it’s coming to a close soon. It’s natural to want to slow down a little in these final months. That being said, I need you to be at the same productivity levels as you were last year at this time. As your retirement gets closer we’ll be looking at your transition and will most likely start early so you’ll be focused on things like training, documentation, and other transition activities. Until then it’s business as usual and I’ll need the same great work from you that you are known for. ”

      The person I’m thinking of became a bit of a nightmare to work with in her last 6 mo or so. I always thought that was a shame, because prior to that she was the ‘go to’ person that everyone praised.

      If it starts to become bad, then the trick is to start isolating them so they don’t bring down the morale of the people around them. This is what started happening with the person I mentioned. She went from being a mentor to the team to being combative and negative with her managers and trying to subvert them with the team members. She was finally focused by her managers to documentation and was excluded from meetings because of the disruption.

  40. Pam Halpert*

    No question. I just wanted to express that I despise my new job and I’m mad at myself for not paying attention to the red flags. But because I’m a people pleaser and afraid of a short stint on my resume and my boss loves me but is also unstable, I’m just going to stay. Thank goodness for therapy and friends who are also in similar situations.

    1. ArtK*

      Sorry that the new job stinks. If the stint at the current place is short, you can just leave it off of your resume. Alison mentions that fact in a number of posts here.

      As far as being a people pleaser, remember that they would fire you in an instant and not care at all. You don’t owe them any more loyalty than they are willing to give you.

    2. DataGirl*

      Sorry. :( Maybe use this time to gather skills for the next job? That’s what I’m doing in my terrible job. I’m working on getting some certifications outside of work so that I have something to beef up my resume, since this job is a dead-end.

  41. fishfriday*

    Any good suggestions for group gifts for a coworker who just had a baby? My boss asked me to think of some ideas but I don’t have kids and am kind of clueless about these things. We’re a relatively small office (~15) and this is baby #2 for her.

    1. DINKs in FTW*

      Same situation. Why ask the person without kids? Yeah I don’t know either. Honestly, the boss should give her a few paid days off in addition to her FMLA. She’d appreciate more than anything.

    2. hmm*

      How about a book and everyone signs the inside front cover and you can either all write individual messages or just one big “Congrats on the new baby” and just sign your names.

      Also clueless about these things but a former office did that.

    3. Corky's Wife Bonnie*

      Is she registered? Since it’s baby #2 maybe not, so a gift card to any baby store would be fine, or a place like Target where she could buy diapers, toys, etc.

    4. Rey*

      I love giving books for new babies; I think most ideas would run against the possibility that they already have the item from baby #1, in which case, maybe its more appropriate to just give cash or gift card so they can buy whatever they want.

    5. KatieKate*

      Restaurant/food delivery gift card! By kid #2 they probably have every “thing” that they need, but food that they don’t have to worry about is always appreciated.

    6. Overeducated*

      Books are always good.

      If you all want to chip in money, a grocery delivery gift certificate is a nice post-baby gift as well. She can buy what she wants/needs, whether it’s diapers, food, or supplies, but part of the gift is not having to leave the house for it.

    7. Anonysand*

      Our go-to office gift was always a voluntary collection towards gift cards. Sometimes we did places with baby items like Target, but sometimes we would break up the amount collected and purchase 2-3 restaurant gift cards to places that they liked and that could do to-go or delivery. The restaurant gift cards always went over well because it was one less responsibility for the new parents to worry about.

      1. wandering_beagle*

        I second the gift cards. On our team, we collect cash from whoever wants to donate and then buy a Target gift card to go along with a greeting card that everyone signs.

    8. Natalie*

      Even if they have all the big equipment, they can probably always use onsies in varying sizes (see, my bff’s baby that is somehow always covered in his own spit), and then a gift card to Target or meal delivery or your local grocery chain for the balance of the funds available.

      1. foolofgrace*

        I generally get onesies or t-shirts that are bigger than newborn size — newborns grow so so fast, and the parents might not have anything when the baby gets a little older. They’ll get a lot of newborn-size stuff.

    9. OtterB*

      Agree books are always good. Maybe a “book shower” where each person contributes a book they liked as a child?

      Or gift cards for meal delivery, absolutely.

    10. Maya Elena*

      Perennials: books, because toddlers destroy books so you can’t always reuse.

      Big budget: inquire about her stroller and carrier situation. She might need replacements od these if #1 is ok enough. A pricey umbrella stroller (think Maclaren) if she doesn’t have one is an excellent gift.

      Medium budget: no getting around asking her what she already has. If that’s not an option, look for things no person in their right mind would buy for themselves, but are actually pretty neat. E.g.: nifty warm thing that fit onto strollers or car seats; Hi-Tech baby monitors (if baby #1 was long enough ago)- these might be high-budget.

      Lower budget: fancy consumables she wouldn’t buy herself. E.g. fancy organic baby bottle soap, formula, shampoo….. Also onesies for less than a year old. You can never have too many.

    11. Maya Elena*

      My previous comment disappeared, so:
      Expensive nice consumables she probably wouldn’t get on her own, but will use. Examples: Fancy organic baby dish soap, shampoo, formula, wipes. Also onesies – no such thing as too many of those. (Stick to under 12 mo sizes.)

    12. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      if it’s available in your area, maybe a year’s subscription to a service like Shipt or Instacart? I’m sure there’s going to be more than a few times in the next year where she needs groceries or diapers or something and just doesn’t want to mess with leaving the house.

    13. Jules the 3rd*

      Kid #2 = has all the Stuff, needs TIME.

      Grocery delivery certificate – maybe, but there’s a lot of up front time cost placing the order.
      Delivery meal kits – google “sweetphi meal delivery” for a review of six options, though availability will vary
      Mid-level chain restaurant gift cards, like Applebys or Chilis, especially if they come with a delivery option.

      Cleaning’s too personal to gift card, I’d think.

    14. Ranon*

      Money probably best, gift cards second. If your office is big on things as gifts, diapers and wipes- since they’re on their second they probably know what brands they like. Most useful gift I got was a pack of diapers in newborn, size 1 and size 2- saved me when I suddenly realized it was really, really time to move up a size.

      Or just send food, everyone needs food. Heck, I could have decimated a Harry and Davids tower post birth, pears and random everything else and all.

    16. Kathleen_A*

      My department chipped in to give a coworker enough cash so that she could get a 3-D image taken of her baby-to-be. This is her first, but the kid has two full sets of doting grandparents, plus lots of uncles, aunts, great uncles, great aunts, honorary uncles and aunts, first cousins once removed, etc. So they didn’t really need much stuff. But our coworker had earlier said that she really wanted to get such an image but couldn’t justify the amount in her mind (I think it was something like $150). So we decided to fill that gap for her. I think she was pretty pleased.

    18. Former Retail Manager*

      Diapers, diapers and more diapers, in larger sizes preferably. It’s the one thing that every child needs, unless they don’t use disposables, and something that is relatively expensive.

  42. WK*

    About a year and a half ago I left my position for a different one within the same company. I worked in healthcare in a position that was a combination of management and direct work with patients. I left mostly due to the poor management and culture at my old position. My new position is in a different location with a much better culture, however it’s all management with no direct patient care. In order to keep my direct care skills sharp, I do some per diem work at my old location once a week. Since I left my old position, management at my old location has approached me several times to ask me to basically do portions of the management part of my old job (I have some unique qualifications and they were unable to replace me). I said no, partially because I am already working over 40 hours a week and don’t care to work more, but also because I feel like they created the problem by treating me poorly and I don’t feel obligated to help them solve it.

    Recently a peer at my old location gave her notice and it is extremely unlikely they will be able to replace her before her notice period is out. It’s likely I’ll be asked again to take on some management responsibilities on the night I am already there doing my per diem work (basically being the supervisor “on call” that night and closing up the building at the end of the day). I have no interest in doing this and plan to say no. What I want to know is whether people think there is any point in explaining why – I was treated poorly and if they wanted me to keep acting as a supervisor, they could have treated me better and retained me as a supervisor. The person asking will be my former grandboss, not my direct supervisor, so she wasn’t directly implicated in the issues I was having but is responsible for the office culture problems in general.

    1. OtterB*

      I think explaining the history risks sounding like you’re holding a grudge. I’d just say that you’re spending your work time on management in your new position, and coming back to old location specifically to keep your hand in direct patient care and are not interested in doing anything more there.

    2. Utoh!*

      Honestly, you should try finding per diem work elsewhere so you are not in the position to say no, out of sight out of mind…

  43. Talvi*

    How does one approach applying to a place you’ve worked before? I’ve just finished a short-term contract and there’s another opening that I’m planning on applying for in the same department (my supervisor was actually the one to let me know about it), but I’m not sure what to say in the cover letter/interview when they already know me and my work.

    1. Overeducated*

      Talk about it directly! Say what you’ve accomplished there and why you want to stay! It seems like a good opportunity for a home run.

  44. Sensitive Girl*

    I swear to god, if I have to listen to our new guy (3 months) talk about how his last company did something, I will smack him.

    1. foolofgrace*

      I feel your pain. Had the exact same situation at a recent job. Wanted to strangle her. It just never stopped. Got to the point where I and a coworker would just roll our eyes at each other.

    3. Sensitive Girl*

      Thing is, I work for a well-known company in my area that is world’s away from where he came from. So, it’s almost like him telling his girlfriend who cooks awesome Indian food that his mother could make a mean steak. Both food, yes… both require attention and a modicum of cooking knowledge. But very different.

    4. Ron McDon*

      My newish co-worker also does this, but we find it hilarious!

      However, she was self-aware enough to say ‘I know I keep going on about it, but at *old job* this person would be on a disciplinary by now, what’s taking so long’? So then after a few mentions, I would say ‘Hey *new person*, what would they have done about this at *old job*?’ and we all have a good laugh.

      But this only works when the new person has a sense of humour about it and when you are genuinely not annoyed by them referencing their old job; otherwise it would come off as snarky.

      And my co-worker’s old job (retail) was definitely better at dealing with problem employees than new job (education)…

    5. pony tailed wonder*

      I like it when our new employee does it. It shows that she is paying attention and sometimes how they did it at her old library is a good idea for us and sometimes we have to explain why we do it a different way.

  45. ArtK*

    I’m looking for a bit of resume help. I want to be able to convey flexibility and a very short learning curve, but I’m not sure how to do it. An example. I went from doing database internals in C/C++ to middleware using Java/JMS/J2EE and was productive within days at the new task, despite lacking any experience in the new technologies. Does anyone have suggestions on how to express that as a bullet point accomplishment on a resume? Or is this something that can only work in a cover letter?

    1. Jimming*

      Be as specific as possible and focus on what you accomplished:
      Learned new technologies within 3 days which increased teapot database productivity by x%

    2. anonymoushiker*

      Perhaps something like learned and implemented skills with xx in two business days?

      (Obviously should be wordsmithed, but hopefully that helps you get going on listing it! I think it is perfectly reasonable to list on your resume but should be highlighted in depth in your cover letter)

  46. Karen from Finance*

    Hi!

    I’m looking for resources on managing costs in small firms, like books and online resources. Any suggestions?

  47. Dr. Doll*

    I messed up, guys. Someone on my team got an award that I nominated her for. 1) I can’t go to the lunch due to having two other responsibilities at the time. 2) I didn’t buy tickets for the team soon enough and the lunch sold out. There are about 3 people who need tickets. I am on the waiting list and I think it will be okay, but the team won’t be able to sit together.

    It was sheer procrastination and not wanting to deal with lunch tickets, credit cards, phone calls, and emails on my part. Delegation FAIL. Boss partial fail.

    1. fposte*

      Oh, this would totally happen to me. But you know, you got your team member an award, so you did the main part there.

      1. valentine*

        If the team member getting the award can go, that’s all that matters. It’s not a big deal if the team can’t sit together. In fact, if they stand or just cheer louder/bigger for her, it’ll look like she’s beloved by several teams, and that may reflect well on you.

    2. Dr. Anonymous*

      When she gets back from the lunch, make sure there’s a personal note from you sitting on her desk.

  48. Linkedin Branding*

    What do you think of Linkedin Headlines? I have heard that recruiters don’t like them, but I’m not currently looking for a job. I have a new one, and I’m trying to figure out if a clever headline would be beneficial, or just look pathetic/trying too hard.

    TLDR: I work in a field with opportunities for both designers and people who work well with data. I recently took a job with the title “Data Manager” but am not (and may never be) ready to NOT be thought of as a designer. I’ll put more details below.

    1. Linkedin Branding*

      Here’s the deal: I have decades of experience in corporate real estate strategic space planning, architecture, design, and construction project management. This is a field that’s evolved a lot in the last 20 years and often a person who started out as an architect (like me) ends up wearing all these other hats. Some time back I decided I no longer wanted a job where I was spread so thin and that I wanted to focus on the strategic planning and related data management.

      And I got that job! But data management, reporting and analysis is very different from the creative stuff I used to do in addition to planning, and I still want that to be part of my “brand” if that makes any sense. I already have opportunities to consult in that sphere. My long term goal is to make sure I am thought of as someone with a diverse skill set as I approach (and enter) retirement. Essentially, I want to be the older gig worker of the future (I’m in my fifties) and I am pleased with the progress I’ve made to this end so far.

      Linkedin offers some flexibility to brand oneself, and I do not underestimate Linkedin when it comes to providing opportunity. I actually have the job I have today because a recruiter randomly connected with me a few years ago, so I don’t think I am over-thinking this, or thinking about it too early.

      But would a headline that essentially touts my creative abilities look like I’m trying too hard or lack self-awareness? Front runners include “Data management [and a few other things filled in here] through a designer’s lens” and “Right brain creative driving space data management [and a few other things filled in here]”.

      I won’t use the term “Design Thinking” because its over-used, and at the risk of sounding arrogant, to me it’s just “thinking.”

      What say you, AAM hive mind?

      1. Karen from Finance*

        I would advice against long titles like ““Right brain creative driving space data management [and a few other things filled in here]”. They do come off a little bit out of touch, and are confusing. The purpose of the headline is to be clear and concise. Being brief is cleaner and more professional. If they want more detail, that’s what your entire Linkedin page is for, they don’t need your entire professional profile lumped into the headline.

        As such, I understand how you feel about the term “Design Thinking”, but I disagree. It may just be thinking to you, but this is the term by which most people understand a specific type of job. A lot of jobs are “just thinking”: Data Analysis, Writing, Engineering, Research, […] etc, but “design thinking” is the term by which we understand a certain scope of abilities, so I suggest reconsidering.

        My suggestion would be to just go “Data Management/Design”. It’s clean, professional and impressive.

        1. Triplestep*

          Thanks for the gut check – out of touch is exactly what I am trying to avoid! (I did a Linkedin search on “right brain” and came up with SO many people who have simply “Left and Right Brain Thinker” in their headlines.)

          I’m going to disagree on your the definition of “Design Thinking” though – Design Thinking refers to the practice of thinking like a designer when approaching other (non-design) problems and processes. In a way it perfectly describes what I am doing: Thinking like a designer about data. But I think it’s been so diluted in its overuse, and honestly I don’t know how else I would think (or be expected to think.)

  49. Ashie*

    My amazing boss who had planned to leave at the end of this quarter has decided to stay on after all! Hooray!!!!

  50. Just another demoralizing Friday*

    I soon discovered my new company (< 1 year) was a sinking ship, and layoffs and closing the only office in this region are supposed to happen next month. Today was supposed to be my boss's (the region head) last guaranteed day in the region before he took his parachute to safety back to a new role at HQ, which is overseas. He wasn't in yesterday at all, has barely said more than a couple of sentences per day to me this week or last. Apparently, he left for HQ yesterday afternoon, and the only inkling anyone had was the controller saying he had leave to go drop my boss off at the airport. Since I worked from home yesterday afternoon, I find out because there is a goodbye email to the group my boss must have sent when he landed overseas this morning. I knew my boss was chicken, but this definitely takes the cake.

    Discussions since the beginning of the sinking have varied wildly from "everyone will get laid off" to "a few will get to work from home for a few months longer" and most worryingly shifted from "it's just a matter of how much severance" to "there may not be any severance." Nobody still has any decisions in writing (although I am almost 100% sure that I will not be in the work from home bunch). I have been trying to get out for months, but it's doubtful anything will come through. This sucks and is eroding what little work ethic I have to wrap things up cleanly.

  51. Alston*

    Time Sensative! Job offer!

    I posted a couple of weeks ago about my travel agent friend needing to leave her agency and what sort of roles she should look for where her skills would translate well.

    She’s been through an interview process for an event coordinator role she was really excited for. In her cover letter, and through her interviews she said that she was looking to move out of sales, but still work with customers. This job seemed like a good fit. This morning they called and offered her a job. The catch, it is part sales and part the job she interviewed for. They played it up like “sales really seems like something you bring to the table so this should work well!” She is devestated.

    She only had a few minutes to take that call, and asked them to email offer details and for them to talk more later. She really wants to move out of sales, and she NEEDS to move out of her current agency ASAP.

    We had seen that they were hiring for both the coordinator and the sales roles, so we figure they were just like this girl can do both? SCORE.

    I think she clarify how much this role is supposed to be sales. And then she should reiterate that she was interested in moving out of sales (which she told them, a bunch). I think she would consider doing the combo job if they offered her more money (as I said, she needs to leave). Any advice on how to negotiate this? They’re supposed to call her back later today, so hopefully we can figure something out for her soon.

    2. hmm*

      They should also be more specific about what kind of sales she’s expected to be doing. Is it cold calling? Is it upselling?

    3. Jules the 3rd*

      My experience is that this is usually a tactic to get someone to do sales, especially in small businesses that need people to cover multiple roles. Get it in writing, but expect it to include at least 50% more sales than any % they give.

    4. Alston*

      Update: she respectfully pushed back and reminded them she had wanted to move out of sales.

      The recruiter took that back to the team, and told my friend they didn’t want to put her in a role she didn’t want, or in something that wasn’t in her career path.

      Couple hours later they came back and offered her the original coordinator job at the salary she requested. So yay!

  52. LGC*

    So, anyway, thanks to everyone who replied to me last week! (I asked last week about how to get my team to stop asking me the same questions numerous times.)

    I’m trying to remember to put a lot of the things you guys suggested into practice. More importantly, I’m…actually planning on addressing this with my team (since I’m often slammed). Not to say they’re in trouble, but to ask them what they need and provide my suggestions.

  53. Ariana Grande's Ponytail*

    I currently work in academia for two bosses who are married to each other. This week Boss A decided they wanted to throw out a project I have been working on for the better part of the last year for some….scientifically questionable reasons, and because of staffing/time management issues that we have known about for the last 6-9 months that have been ignored. Boss A wants to start over from where we were about 9 months ago and do a quickie version of what we’ve spent all this time and money (consulting with experts!) on. This was presented as a unilateral decision with no input from me and the other employee who have been working on this project as a primary project, even though part of my job is to assure consistency and quality of the outcomes of this project, and we were completely blindsided. I feel completely undermined and obstructed from doing my job.

    This is not the first project of mine to be thrown out when it was at or near completion, and I’m reaching the end of my tolerance for being handed what is starting to feel like busywork. I’m struggling to not have panic attacks after meetings with Boss A. I have also been dragged into interpersonal drama by another employee that tarnished my reputation. I don’t see any development happening any time soon because of this. There is no “Big Boss” for me to go to, and I don’t feel comfortable trying to talk to Boss A about my problems because they don’t seem to respect me, and I don’t feel comfortable trying to talk to Boss B about my problems with Boss A because they are Boss A’s partner. This has all happened within the first year of my first real job.

    I need to just start working on an exit plan, right?

    2. JessicaTate*

      Yes to the exit plan; this sounds like a particularly dysfunctional leadership from Boss A.

      However, does Boss B have any responsibility for these being-thrown-out projects; and if so, does he/she back the decision that’s been made? You didn’t say much about the relationship dynamics between A and B, or how B is, in general, to work for. But if Boss B is at all reasonable AND has some responsibility for these dubiously-managed projects, I think you should definitely talk with him/her, at least in terms of asking for help understanding the decision-making relative to your quality-assurance responsibilities. Again, if one of them has shown at least some effort to keep a professional behavior up, I don’t think you should automatically assume that you can’t talk to B about work issues just because they’re married.

      But if they’re one of those couples who has brought their relationship drama into the office, or has shown that they back each other unfailingly, and/or B doesn’t really have responsibility for the changing projects… then, just focus on finding your next opportunity.

      1. Ariana Grande's Ponytail*

        Thanks for this long response! Hopefully you might see this even though I am responding so late.

        Unfortunately Boss B does not have responsibility for any of Boss A’s projects. I’m not even sure they work on anything together at home. Mostly they work together to share overhead costs, from what I can tell. I’m one of the only employees who even interfaces with both of them on a regular basis.

        Thanks to you and Miss Pantalones en Fuego for your responses though, this makes me feel more assured that I’m best off just getting out of here!

  54. Overeducated*

    Advice on staying sane and performing well when you get a new boss every few months?

    Mine retired and I got a new interim boss (IB #1) last summer. It was a tough transition for a few months as we inspected and overhauled everything we did and changed our work priorities and practices significantly, and we’re still playing catch-up on tying up loose ends from that period. But overall, IB #1 has been great, taught me a huge amount, and made a lot of changes that turned out to be for the best. So much respect.

    Unfortunately, IB #1 is done this assignment in a month. Then we’re getting IB #2 for 3 months. Then we’re getting IB #3 for 9-12 months. Then, and only then, do they forecast Permanent Boss will be hired. Yup, we’re talking three new bosses in the next year or so!

    I’m definitely nervous about this – management styles can differ a huge amount, and it’s just tough to have to prove yourself every time a new boss comes along. We’re also still waiting for decisions on some issues that impact our day-to-day work because interim leaders don’t want to commit their successors to changes, and frankly, doing a massive 180 was tough enough that I hope they don’t ALL require such major turnarounds. From anyone who’s gone through this, or stepped up to be an interim leader – do we get through this when it looks like stability is still a long way away? On a more selfish front, any tips for ensuring I have good recommendations amidst a constantly rotating door of supervisors if I decide a new direction is not for me and I need to move on?

  55. Amy Farrah Fowler*

    Okay, so a weird thing happened to my sister this week. I went with her as her “+1” to their company party. So she works in llama herding, and was named the employee of the year! Yay, right? However, the manager over this branch who was giving the speech quoted things about her background that are patently untrue. Examples: He said she had been with the company less than 2 yrs when her 3rd anniversary is about 2 weeks away. He also said that she had never worked in the industry before, when she has a degree in llama herding administration and has held a title equal to his at a smaller organization.

    He is her grandboss and her manager knows all about her background. I was sitting with them while we were all trying to figure out who he was talking about during his speech, since it didn’t seem to point to her at all.

    Should she say something? Should she ask her manager to say something to him? It’s just so unfortunate that he basically told a room full of her co-workers things that were so inaccurate about her background and experience. I was unsure how to advise her despite being an avid AAM reader.

    1. fposte*

      I wouldn’t assume the grandboss would be au fait with the details of her career, but I might mention it to my boss–“Hey, I was delighted to get my award, but did Shadrach confuse me with somebody else? His career summary was pretty off. What should I think about that?”

      2. Amy Farrah Fowler*

        Yeah, I guess I was just thinking that if I were giving a speech to give someone an award, that I’d at least fact-check it with their boss to make sure I had the correct information :-/

        Her manager was sitting right there and we all looked at each other and went “where did he get that information?”

        1. Autumnheart*

          My speculation is that Manager probably gave him a detailed list, and then Grandboss went up there and winged(sic) it without notes.

  56. MuseumChick*

    I got a new job!!! I have to move again, as it is hours away from where I current live. That sucks but oh well. I gave my notice today. Now I have a month to arrange an apartment, etc.

  57. Kramerica Industries*

    Finally started a new job on Monday! Aaaand the job title and a few of the responsibilities were restructured on Tuesday.

    I haven’t been here long enough to know whether this is bad, but it feels a bit bait & switchy.

    1. Ariana Grande's Ponytail*

      My unqualified opinion is that this does not sound good. Are you okay with the new changes? If not, I’d push back on this immediately before anyone can assume that you are okay with it.

      1. Kramerica Industries*

        The change was made to the whole team, and others seem like they like this change. However, I can’t help but to feel like this is an aspect of the job that I took, that I won’t have the chance to learn.

    2. That Girl From Quinn's House*

      I’ve had so many bad experiences like this with jobs, my new rule of thumb is going to involve continuing to apply and interview through the full length of the new hire probation period. Is that something you’d be able to do?

  58. Anonysand*

    I’ve got a question this week about how to navigate fairly-close work friendships, especially with someone of the opposite gender. Backstory: I started my current job about six months ago and my position was created alongside another, and designed to work a lot with that person. I am a woman, and they filled the other position with a man that they’d worked with in the past. Not only do he and I work alongside each other on most of our projects, but we’ve grown somewhat close because we are similar in age, have a lot of shared experiences (both of us are happily married, went to college for the same specific degree program, grew up in similar households, etc) and have the same sense of humor. Needless to say, we get along great and have formed a work-only friendship. We usually go out to lunch together once a week or so, but there’s rarely, if any, communication outside of work between the two of us. There’s no additional interest between the two of us past being friends, but I’m getting the sense that others in our personal lives are interpreting things wrong. It’s a little annoying, because I know that if I were a man or if he were a woman, no one would be batting an eye.

    How can I continue to navigate this newish work friendship while also not giving people the wrong idea?

    1. fposte*

      If the problem is with people in your personal lives, you make sure you don’t keep secrets from those personal people or underplay or mislead about the time you two spend with each other, and that you two don’t turn the subject to those personal-life people. But also watch for signs of the dread Mentionitis–make sure you don’t avoid mentioning Bob where he’s relevant, but don’t drag him into private conversations just because he said a funny thing or recommended a restaurant.

      1. valentine*

        Especially if these are people who know you really well and who care about you in useful ways, really reflect on whether they might see you headed (or already) somewhere you don’t want to be (and whether or not you want to be there). Don’t create or continue an us-versus-them with WorkFriend about these (possible) misunderstandings. When you’re with him, think about how comfortable you’d be at any given time if one of the Concerned walked in the room or joined you for lunch.

    3. JessicaTate*

      I’d say you need to have a talk with the people in your personal life giving you this impression. If it’s friends or family making snide comments, I’d call them out on it directly. First, being really clear that there is absolutely nothing romantic going on with this guy, nor will there be. And second, being really clear that it feels pretty insulting that they think so poorly of you that they are ready to believe you would cheat on your husband with some guy at work — or that you can’t be friends or spend time with another man without cheating.

      If it’s your partner, that’s a bigger deal, because he’s telling / hinting that your work relationship is making him feel insecure – rationally or not – and you should talk that through. If he just simmers on jealousy, it’s not good in the long run. Only you two can figure out how to navigate it in a way that is both rational and validating of one another’s feelings, but get it out in the open and reassuring him that he’s it for you and you are, in fact, very happily married to him.

      I’m taking you at your word that you’re not crushing on this guy a bit (which can be harmless), which can manifest in talking about him more than is normal at home. Might want to reflect on that a bit to be sure it’s not aggravating the situation.

  59. Alternative Person*

    So, my senior manager came to visit. One of my male co-workers complained to him that I’m not around enough (I work a shorter week for various reasons, agreed with my direct manager) and I need to come more to help with the workload.

    This co-worker does not have an inkling that he is part of the reason why I don’t.

    I think I cleared up the worst of the issue with the senior manager but this is a longer meeting that I’m not looking forward to.

    1. Jules the 3rd*

      oh, time for mgmt to shut him down with ‘AP’s putting in the time we’ve hired AP for. Let’s look at other solutions to your concerns.’

  60. Environmental Compliance*

    There’s a spreadsheet of production data that I use for a variety of monthly reports submitted to the state/feds.

    I just found out that my boss has futzed with them for some reason and now a very large chunk of that data is missing.

    I *think* I can still get the reports done, but the prior spreadsheet used VLOOKUP to do a lot of this behind the scenes math, and it’s going to take a very long time to redo all of it by hand, as nothing was properly entered.

    I really like our new safety person, but they really need to back off out of my office and let me get some sh*t done, because especially with this spreadsheet fiasco I need all the time I can scrounge up, and cannot put any time right now towards assisting with their projects.

    I need a drink and a box of cookies.

    1. Seifer*

      Oh god, good luck. I remember when I started I was basically barely competent at Excel and didn’t understand why people were so hissy over their spreadsheets. Now, I am the person that has stabby fantasies when someone says that they “just hardcoded it since your formulas were confusing, that’s okay right?”

      No, I hate you.

      2. Environmental Compliance*

        I think I would need bail money if someone hardcoded over my formulas.

        Usually this particular report takes me a grand total of 5 minutes. It just took me 3 friggin’ hours. For some reason now the daily numbers aren’t getting entered into a spreadsheet, oh no, we’re going to send them out in a PDF. So now on top of the time I just spent fixing the summary report that is federally mandated, I’ll also need to track down the days with missing data because the PDFs were never sent out, and I’ll need to take a few minutes every day to enter in the data to my new spreadsheet so that at the end of the month I’m not spending 3 hours again.

        One report down. Let’s see what else got borked in this BS.

    2. BRR*

      Oh no! Is there any way your IT dept could pull a previous version of the document (if that would even help)?

      1. Environmental Compliance*

        The problem is not that the previous versions would be correct – there’s just no data entered.

    3. Please stop kicking me*

      Any chance you can go to the file and restore your previous version? I had no idea that was a thing until about 16 months ago and it has saved me numerous times since then

    4. Natalie*

      After all of this, when you have a spreadsheet with the formulas you want, protect those cells so they can’t be overwritten again. Newer versions of Excel will let you protect individual cells and skip the password part, so it’s very easy to unprotect when needed.

      1. Environmental Compliance*

        Unfortunately it’s not just my spreadsheet. It was the production spreadsheet, that was Op’s, and for some reason there’s just been a choice to not enter in any data.

    5. LGC*

      I feel like I could have written this post.

      (I was freaking out about how our hours billed at one site went down by 15% when we generally bill more hourly work this year. It turned out that one of our customers was misnamed and that caused an error in the lookup. I didn’t find this out until I went customer by customer and saw that one of them was missing entirely.)

      Good luck and I hope you got it sorted out!

  61. JustaTech*

    TL; DR Is it unreasonable for a person to ask to have their name removed from documents they authored if someone else edits the document?

    Long version: I have a coworker, Angelino, who works in a different site from me. A big part of his job is writing up short reports about things that happen at our two manufacturing sites. He’s not the only person who write these reports; there’s a whole team across three sites that writes and reviews these reports.
    The problem is that Angelino hates to have his reports reviewed. Several times when someone has corrected his reports (little things like wrong lot number or big things like wrong conclusion) he has absolutely blown up and demanded to have his name taken off the report (because he’s not the author anymore, somehow).
    Am I off-base in thinking that this is a pretty unreasonable reaction? This isn’t creative work, it’s churning out reports, reports that need to be correct because they are (I think) accessible by our regulatory agency. I mean, I get why he gets frustrated at one particular coworker (Christine) who makes not only big reviews but will also pull out extraneous punctuation and can get super nit-picky. (Which can be good but it’s pretty shocking the first time she returns something you’ve asked her to review and it’s solid red with changes.)
    But even if she is over the top, I feel like learning to have your documents reviewed is just part of working life that Angelino should have figured out by now. As it stands the whole team at my site spends a bunch of time figuring out how to tell Angelino that he’s made a small-but-important error while protecting his ego and it’s just exhausting.
    (Background: Angelino isn’t fresh out of school, and he’s been here at least a year, which makes him the newest on the team. I don’t know if there’s a gender thing because the guy who is most likely to review Angelino’s stuff is both senior and super laid-back about grammar/punctuation/style stuff. Not everyone is subject to Angelino’s rudeness, “Well I’m just not going to write these anymore!”, but everyone has commented on it.)

        1. JustaTech*

          That’s what everyone is trying to figure out. Is he just a drama llama? Is this an insecurity thing? Is this an overworked thing?
          Because if it’s an overworked thing then the team is more than happy to shuffle things around so he’s not so overworked (or talk to management about hiring more people for the position, there used to be two other people in that position who both left within a week of each other last year).
          If it’s an insecure thing then his boss can work with him on that.

          I don’t know what anyone can do about the drama llama thing.

          It’s like he takes every correction very personally. The team says “this document has an error” and he hears “you’re wrong!”. I don’t like it when someone else catches my errors, because I don’t like making errors in the first place, but I know that it doesn’t mean that person hates me or thinks I’m stupid.
          I just wish I could tell if that’s what Angelino needs to hear.

          1. College Career Counselor*

            On some level, the reason doesn’t matter (although I don’t see overworked from your description of him). He’s reacting inappropriately to routine (if sometimes picky, from Christine)) corrections and being unprofessionally petulant about it. EVERYbody makes mistakes. From where I sit (internet rando), you’re trying to figure out what is causing this reaction so it will stop. Angelino is in the process of becoming the rock in the stream that you’re all trying to flow around. His boss should tell him to knock it off because
            a) it’s a bad look for him and will affect his reputation
            b) getting along with co-workers is part of his job
            c) we all make mistakes, so this correction is an opportunity for THE TEAM to put out a better product/report/whatever

            1. valentine*

              JustaTech, stop coddling him and brainstorming like you’re his communal parents. Why so much energy on his tantrums? If he bothers you with it, shut him down.

          2. Mike C.*

            This is why I love regulated environments, they’re so open to root cause analysis and understand that outside of malicious behavior there is never a single cause to a problem.

            So here’s the things I would consider, and many are likely to be easily checked off:

            1. Are your workplace QC/QA policies, expectations and procedures clearly documented, communicated and followed on a regular basis? This goes for both production and quality. Has Angelino been properly trained on this issue, as it can be a massive culture shock if you aren’t used to everything being checked and counter-signed. (In fact, lots of people take offense at this)

            2. How does your company culture address mistakes, both small/large and repeated/ongoing/emergent? Are people quickly blamed and yelled at? Are problems contained without further analysis? Is there consistent root cause analysis into the causes of these errors?

            3. How are workloads right now? Are there any short term issues that just need to pass (say, weather), or long term issues with employment?

            4. Are there any processes you can standardize to reduce overhead and eliminate regular errors? Is there a standard format/guide used for reports? Are there templates or even automated reporting systems or is there a lot of hand entry?

            Look, mostly likely a manager needs to sit down with Angelino and set some expectations with his attitude, but these other issues are worth exploring to both help solve this particular issue and improve things in general.

            1. JustaTech*

              Regulated industries are the best! (Except when they’re a PITA.)
              So
              1, yes, and he came from a similar industry. He’s not in the quality org but directly adjacent.
              2, I don’t have a lot of visibility at the sites, but I’m working on “less yelling, more preventative systems”.
              3, That is an excellent question. We did end the middle-of-the-night calls, but there’s still weekend work.
              4, Templates, ha! We’ve had several (senior) people be all against templates because “we should be considering each deviation on a case-by-case basis”. Uh, no.
              Going into the whole automated systems/hand entry would require at least one drink.

      2. Quinoa*

        Part of being an adult is managing your *own* ego. Nobody else should be expected to manage it for you. Angelino is totally out of line here and all of the standard “return awkward to sender,” “you’re not the problem here,” “stop doing his work for him (in this case behaving like a professional)” advice from AAM and the commenters applies.

    2. Kathenus*

      I think Angelino has way too much space in everyone’s heads. Review/edit as needed and if he wants his name removed, fine. Christine is nitpicky with editing? If it’s directed at you, choose to discuss with her or your manager if you want. If it’s directed at a coworker, and doesn’t affect you, leave it be. If either of these were your direct reports, my answer might be different. But since these are both coworkers, and the dramatics don’t negatively impact your work, I’d go with not my circus, not my monkeys.

      2. JustaTech*

        The problem is that we can’t take his name off because every document has to be signed by both the author and the reviewer.

        (I actually appreciate Christine’s nitpicky editing, and she’s able to turn it off if I just need a content review.)

        1. Natalie*

          Just let you boss handle this. Don’t take his name off (because you can’t) and ignore his tantrums. If he asks you why you didn’t take his name off it’s pretty simple to redirect him to boss.

          1. Mike C.*

            In regulated workplaces like these, it’s really upon everyone to ensure proper compliance. There’s no room for “not my problem” in these sorts of things.

            “Create no defects, allow no defects, pass on no defects.”

    3. anonagain*

      I think there are situations where it would be reasonable to ask to have one’s name removed from a document, but that this isn’t one of those situations.

    4. Mike C.*

      Being in Quality for so long, this attitude sucks

      Any of the punctuation, lot numbers and other strictly factual stuff, those corrections are simply QA/QC and he should shut up about it. He performed the work, there needs to be a record of what was done. Suck it up.

      If subjective conclusions, results or professional opinions are part of these reports (I don’t think they are, but I’m being complete here), there might be an argument for having his name removed or having a Minority report added to show that he isn’t agreeing to something he didn’t conclude. I don’t think that’s the case here though, so he needs to shut up and learn how to work in a regulated environment.

    5. Venus*

      How publishing (internal and external) often works for me:
      Document is written and sent for review
      Editor ensures it is minimally compliant with expectations, and sends it for one or two peer reviewers
      Those peer reviewers suggest changes, both big and small
      Author can decide which edits they want to make, provides a reason for those they decide to ignore, and the editor gets a final say on whether or not the document can be published with some changes not made

      This seems like a different situation (this is an internal process document), but I do think that this is something for the manager to address with Angelino (or Christine, if the manager thinks that their time will be better spent not nit-picking – my editing style definitely varies depending upon the audience).

  62. anonymoushiker*

    I’m looking for help on networking/informational interviews. Currently, my work is a mix of office management/data analytics/data quality and I’m hoping to transition more into nonprofit/state evaluation/analytics but thinking I have some holes in skills or perhaps haven’t emphasized my skills the right way in resumes and cover letters. How do people go about making connections in new fields for them that they have transferable skills in?

  63. Ruth (UK)*

    So, one thing my workplace does that I enjoy is a sport thing once a week after work. Each week it’s a different sport and free to take part in. It’s set up as an interdepartmental friendly tournament. (We have a sport centre on our campus).

    The events include common team sports that people probably did in school (football, netball, rounders, (touch) rugby etc) as well standard athletics type events, and things like tennis/badminton etc and also things like 1 mile walk (participation points only), archery, table tennis, frisbee, and inclusive zone basketball (a type of adaptive basketball that can include wheelchairs). There’s often a way to take part in a more low key way (eg. At the swimming event you could choose to either race and be timed for competitive points, or to just swim at your own leisure to gain the participation points for your department).

    Generally people are encouraged to do at least one event in the year. I think in my department (40ish people), almost everyone has done at least one thing (the walk was popular as it was a warmer time of year), while a handful of people do occasional events and only a couple of people go most weeks. If you went to nothing, no one would especially notice (at least not in my department).

    Personally I think it’s run in quite a good and inclusive way that makes it easy to get involved as little or as often as people like, with a broad enough range of activities that almost everyone should be at to find at least some things they want or are able to do.

    1. WellRed*

      It’s good for the physically able, I suppose. Why is it all athletic events, though? And what’s up with “participation points?” We’ve read enough letters here to know that physical-focused events inevitably leave someone out.

      1. Ruth (UK)*

        I dunno, I am a [at the most entry level] admin person. I don’t organise it. This thing is a weekly sport event. It’s not the only thing they do, but this one I guess is because… it’s a university and it’s organised with help from the student sport teams. There are other things like staff book clubs, and ‘language cafes’ (I go to a French conversation thing sometimes).

        It’s set up as an ongoing league across the year, and the idea is you get points just for showing up (not just for doing well at the sport). That’s the participation points. So you can still do ok in the points table even if you lose all your matches.

        It’s hard to come up with a single activity that will truly include absolutely everyone (at a large campus based university) and that’s why this isn’t the only type of thing they do. Within that, they include a broad range of activities, including ones that can be done adaptively or by people who may not otherwise be ‘sporty’. This is the sport thing they do. It’s just one of the (free, voluntary) things they offer.

  64. Fake Old Converse Shoes (not in the US)*

    I took last Wednesday off and when I came back on Thursday, my coworker told me our team leader complained about the quality of my work to my coworker. I’m not surprised since my team leader is someone who loves trashing people (especially those who are long gone from the company), but I can’t help feeling hurt.

  65. Nacho*

    I had a weird and kind of disturbing conversation with a coworker yesterday. We were talking about anime, and he brings up one he really likes, about a guy who gets transported to another world. The plot kicks off early on when the guy is falsely accused of rape by the princess, which ruins his reputation and turns the kingdom against him. So the guy turns to me and says “All women like that should be murdered.” like it’s a perfectly reasonable thing to talk about in an office. When I told him that was kind of a creepy thing to say, he asked me if talking about murder made me uncomfortable, and I really didn’t want to continue the conversation, so I just said yes.

      1. Anastasia Beaverhousen*

        Nopenopenopenopenope. Nope. Just. Nope. I would stay FAR away from this dude. Engage only as much as necessary for work purposes.

    4. Washi*

      I know the answer isn’t “go to HR” as often as people think it is, but I would seriously consider it for this. That is beyond the pale.

    5. Dragoning*

      I really wish they hadn’t made that dang show.

      And also hooooooly crap I would be avoiding that guy for the rest of time as much as possible.

    6. Mobuy*

      Obviously, this is hyperbole. Still, women who falsely accuse men of rape are scum and certainly deserving of some punishment. They ruin men’s lives and make actual rape victims less likely to be believed. I honestly don’t see a lot of red flags here.

      2. nacho*

        I support punishments for anybody who falsely reports a crime, but the way this guy said it, there was no hint of hyperbole or exaggeration in his voice. He truly expected me to respond with “yeah, kill them all.”

  66. HigherEd Person*

    I posted last Friday about a former student who was being mis-gendered in job interviews. I shared your advice/recommendations/thoughts with them, and they were really thankful!

    Good news is that they did get a job, and the place they picked was the one that, upon being corrected, the hiring manager was apologetic and made a very clear effort to use correct pronouns from that point on. They are super excited about this new place, and feeling more confident in their ability to identify themselves and their pronouns upon meeting new people.

    Thank you!

  67. Amber Rose*

    I called in sick yesterday, forgetting it was Valentine’s day, and I’m hoping I didn’t get a bunch of judgement. :(
    Since my boss’s official policy on calling in sick is “don’t” I’m imagining I did and it’s making me feel not awesome today. He gives us sick days so we don’t come in contagious, but it’s not my fault I rarely catch colds or anything that could be spread and yet still can’t come to work sometimes.

    In more work related news, our office fish is somehow still alive, I have to take a bear awareness course today because I’m getting reminder emails every day that are also copied to my boss and it’s making him extremely salty, and the government has finally given us the new audit standards that give us six months to somehow have a year’s worth of records.

    Oh government.

    1. I Work on a Hellmouth*

      Even if they were judgey, they’ll get over it. And sometimes people need to call in on arbitrary holidays, so they can suck it.
      But please, tell me more about what a “bear awareness” course entails, because my mind is supplying a lot of fun possibilities but I need to know the details on this.

      1. Amber Rose*

        Yeah, it’s just kind of exhausting when it comes back around. I may need some of my sick time for surgery in May/June, and last time I asked for that I got a huge lecture about how often I call in sick. :/

        Bear Awareness is because we work in oil and gas. Pipelines are out in the middle of nowhere, and there are at least a handful of bear related fatalities every year. So there are courses you can take that cover how to be safe in bear territory. I only take one because one of our customers only accepts their own bear awareness course as valid and only offers it through their online H&S platform, and signing everyone up for that would be a huge pain in the ass. As long as somebody does it they stop complaining, so I just do it to save time.

        It’s exactly as ridiculous as you might imagine. There’s this little cartoon bear mascot who talks in a goofy Barney-esque voice about common sense stuff. Don’t leave food around. Don’t touch the cubs. Don’t antagonize bears. Carry bear spray and an air horn.

        2. Decima Dewey*

          Let’s see if I’ve got this. You’re required to take a Bear Awareness course about the dangers of being around wild animals. And the training is hosted by a cutesy cartoon bear?

          “Mr Ranger isn’t gonna like that, Yogi.”

          1. Amber Rose*

            A cutesy cartoon bear wearing a hardhat and safety glasses. Who told me that bear encounters are “bear-y rare.”

            Because everyone loves bear puns!

            1. I work on a Hellmouth*

              I’m a little surprised it isn’t called a “bearwareness” course, to be honest…

    2. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

      Oh man, I feel you on this one.

      A few years ago, I called out of work (for genuine reasons: I’d been sick and sleepless all night) and only after making the call at something like 4am and then zombieing to bed until noon did I realize that I’d happened to call out on 4/20. No one ever said anything to me, but then again, that doesn’t necessarily mean assumptions weren’t made.

      1. Amber Rose*

        I got them, the snarky comments.

        Back problems are not limited to the elderly. I hate the judgement I get when I have to explain that my back just craps out now and then.

    3. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

      Oh no, I have called in sick the last two days, too! I didn’t even consider the V-Day angle, but everyone I work with knows that my husband is in a different city during the week. And my annoying colleague was very nasty to me on Wednesday about “spreading my germs around” when I mentioned I felt a little off.

      I’d like to take the bear course. The idea of running into a bear kind of freaks me out and I’m surprised it never happened to me considering the amount of time I used to spend blithely tromping through the Rockies.

    4. Llellayena*

      Welcome to the club. I called in yesterday too. Unfortunately I couldn’t completely ignore the world/work because there were *things to do* so I sent off emails and fielded phone calls in between naps and thermometer readings. Sometimes it just happens that way. But yay for 24hr bugs instead of “oh my god do I have the flu?”

      1. Amber Rose*

        I tore my back again. I needed a lot of heat and muscle relaxers and eventually some time on a TENS machine to be as mobile as I am today.

        I’m just really, really good at hiding pain. I look fine, but I’m still not.

  68. Chonky*

    I’m a little lost as to how to handle a situation where my direct supervisor does/says one thing but my uber-boss tells me another, and I feel like I’m constantly caught in the middle due to my direct supervisor’s complete lack of disseminating information. Basically, my direct supervisor is the director of my department and is responsible for passing along information down to me and a teammate under me about our projects, what’s moving, what’s on hold, things like that. My uber-boss, however, keeps emailing me asking me for information about the next phase of a project that I have no answers for because my direct supervisor hasn’t told me about it. And we’re not talking about things all happening in a day – the information my uber-boss reaches out for is usually when we’re pressed right up against a deadline that my supervisor knew about, but I didn’t.

    This wasn’t an issue when my direct supervisor hadn’t started – there was clear communication between me and my uber-boss and it was ultimately a very collaborative atmosphere, but once they hired my direct supervisor, that pretty much disintegrated. I’m left out of conference calls and meetings about projects that I ultimately handle with the expectation that my supervisor will pass on the information to me – but he never does, and half of the time I didn’t even know it was a project we had or that there was an additional part to one. All in all, I feel like this really sets me up for failure and puts me in a really bad light with my uber-boss because I’ve had to admit to her that I didn’t know a lot or any of the details on more than one occassion, and what once was a secure working environment is now one where I tiptoe around, afraid that I’m going to get fired.

    Sorry for the tl;dr, but I’d be most grateful for any advice on what I can do to ease my perceived tension with my uber-boss as well as how I can best put myself in a position where I’m not playing catch up all the time. Thank you!

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      I don’t know why it would put *you* in a bad light if you had to truthfully say “I’m sorry, this is the first I’ve heard of that project, Fergus hasn’t said anything to me about it.” Especially since you previously had a good relationship with your uber-boss.

      1. valentine*

        I hope you’re being as frank as Rusty’s script, instead of letting uber-boss think you dropped the ball.

    2. Rey*

      It sounds like a you have a long-standing and pretty direct relationship with uber-boss, and maybe still sorting it out with direct supervisor. Has direct supervisor explained why they have cut you out of conference calls and project meetings? It sounds like in the past when uber-boss called you to find out that something wasn’t done, you have hedged about why it wasn’t ready. Be very specific with them: “I haven’t heard about this project before today. That conference call/meeting didn’t include me. Based on what you just requested and the timeline, I can get X done with Y modifications.” And if you haven’t had a clear conversation with direct supervisor, you’ve got to get to the bottom of this. If they haven’t been hostile yet, you can approach it pretty openly. “Uber-boss has asked me for X and Y in the last month, when I hadn’t heard anything about these projects. In the past, I’ve been included in those meetings, but that has changed now. I’m concerned that I’m out of the loop and not delivering on my job responsibilities. What can we do to fix this?”

  69. The Man, Becky Lynch*

    It’s crunch time and I’ve snapped at someone because of it. Background: I’m a one person accounting department for a small company.

    Anyone in accounting knows about credit references that you send out to gather information prior to extending credit to a new account. I’ve gotten three of the same requests this week…one each day. Hastily scribbled with “1st request2nd 3rd! Request” on them. I just finally emailed them to tell them to stop, they’ve been received and will be responded to when time allows. I’ve never had someone do this before, usually it’s once per week or perhaps one on Monday and one on Friday tops. Also they’re faxed. That’s how archaic this system is!

    Now that I’ve vented, I’m going back into my third day or spreadsheet hell to finish up two weeks’ worth of week in 3 days. Grrrrrrr. It’s so rude and a waste of my already frayed emotions.

    1. I Work on a Hellmouth*

      Hey, you’re doing better than I would have. I probably would have been snappish a lot more quickly.

      1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

        LOL, thank you.

        My natural state is chill but these are the little things that dig their way under my business-thick skin [I have thin skin in some aspects of life but in business I’m pretty stoic!]

        I’m on a snack break now after crushing one spreadsheet. I got those faxes first thing before I even had coffee. My coworker just dropped it off all “WTFFFFFFF why they so antsy tho?” first thing, since he gets here and has to walk by the fax, thus checking it and I still had my coat on. Raaaaawr

        1. I Work on a Hellmouth*

          Picture your foes being locked into the Elimination Chamber. And you have the coveted guaranteed Go Last spot. Or imagine them being eaten by Canadian Trapdoor Alligators. That’s what I’ve been doing, and it helps more than you would think!

          1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

            I needed this mental image right now. I’ve decided to declare war with Indeed, that platform stinks and I hate everything about it right now. It’s like Craigslist’s sassy older sister who just found out how to do one step above basic HTML.

  70. DaniCalifornia*

    Need advice about surviving my coworkers for the next few months. Job search is on hold due to tax season. April 15th I will be 1000% hitting the ground running but until then I’m stuck in a miserable place.

    Coworker is large part of why I’m leaving. Our supervisor is their parent. Our new hire is supervisor’s best friend. Coworker talks s&*t about me to new hire and supervisor. I’ve seen the evidence because they are dumb enough to leave it around the office. This is the 2nd or 3rd time I’ve found it. I knew we weren’t friends. There were lots of issues when they were hired and supervisor should have fired coworker but outright said they wouldn’t. So on one hand I was being pleasant and warm at the office but knowing we aren’t friends. But to find this garbage again and see the complaints about me. (All fluff stuff too, nothing about my work. Just “she’s so annoying” mean girl crap.) It makes me want to be polite and cool and just not talk to them unless necessary. Too bad it’s open office and it’s just us. And I have to talk to both of them (coworker and new hire) all day long because neither of them were trained well by supervisor, neither of them take direction well or take notes, and both just lean on me to do their jobs for them.

    I need advice, mantras, anything to get through this next few months. How do you work with people who do not like you? And are actively gossiping about you while being nice and friendly to your face?

    1. LCL*

      I have nothing that will make them stop being hateful people. I have some ideas that will make you feel better. Next time one of them asks you for help, ask her if she is OK being helped by someone who is so annoying. Or, and careful with this one, if you are doing something that annoys them but isn’t in itself rude, keep doing it more and turn it up to 11. When you find evidence of them slagging you, in full view of everybody go to their desk and say you left this paper in the copier. Or, in full view, say I found this is, it says ‘read aloud from paper’, who does this belong to?

      1. irene adler*

        If they are dumb enough, after you ‘read aloud from paper’, say to yourself (but loud enough for them to hear you),”Hmm, I wonder what my attorney would say about this.”

        Not implying that you need to take this to an attorney. Just if they aren’t very sophisticated, the mention of an attorney, given they know they shouldn’t talk badly about you, might scare them some.

    2. WellRed*

      Can you hand it to them and say, politely and cooly, something like, “I don’t think this was meant for me?” After you copy if for your files, of course.

    3. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      Gurl. You just remind yourself that you’re donezo in two months time! Keep that in the back of your head, smiling and helping these numbskulls. They are gonna be screwed AF when you’re gone, relish that feeling, you are the leader, they are the sheep who shall be slaughtered :D

      I’m easily able to deal with obnoxious clowns when my days are numbered.

      1. DaniCalifornia*

        Thank you! I’m hopeful that they are numbered! I’m praying I can get interviews and into something else right away. I wish I didn’t have to halt my search but it’s impossible to do it during tax season.

        1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

          You must be an accountant or in some sort of accounting position if you’re talking about tax time. You are gonna be just fine, barring you living in the middle of nowhere woodlands! I found a job within 3 weeks of starting my search, interviews for just about everything I applied to, etc. And I’m just in-house accounting. Fly sweet birdie, you’re gonna be free!

          Just smirk inside, that’s what I did as I was being beaten down by jackals at my last job. You are a skilled, valuable employee and they do not decide your worth. These people are gross because they get in our heads and start making us question ourselves at times, they stink like big stinky stinkers and will be miserable sinkers forever, while you soar.

    4. LilySparrow*

      This isn’t for everyone, and I certainly wouldn’t recommend this in any kind of abuse-of-power situation. But I have done a number on a co-worker like this by going out of my way to be extra kind and nice. I’d offer to bring them stuff if I was running out. I washed their coffee mugs, brought their print jobs off the copier if I saw them, little stuff like that. Never mentioned anything about the negativity, never drew attention to what I was doing, just decided that Being Nice to The Meanie was my secret pet project.

      I didn’t do it to get them to like me. (Didn’t really want them to like me, they were awful). I did it because I needed to forcibly inject positivity into the space for my own sense of well-being. I needed to be in a space where SOMEBODY was being nice. They weren’t going to, but I could.

      It made me feel so much better, like I was the one in control of the situation – especially because it was my secret and took them a while to figure out. It made me stop dreading going to the job every day, because I was going to a Nice Place, where Nice people (me) were in charge, instead of an awful place where the awful person was in charge.

      Bonus points: at first they were suspicious and confused. Then they started feeling like total dirt. They didn’t get noticeably nicer themselves, but they ramped way back on the awful because they just didn’t have the energy for it. I could see them visibly deflate every time I made a nice gesture. That moment was always awesome.

      1. pony tailed wonder*

        It will also help when they complain about you and people have seen how nice you have been to them all along and so co-workers will form their own opinion on the mean girl.

      2. DaniCalifornia*

        I think this is a good way to look at the situation. Even today when I wanted to cry at my desk, I still laughed with them. It just felt fake. But I am going to try this. It can’t be bad for me.

        1. valentine*

          The happier you seem, the more miserable they’ll be.

          Are you waiting because firms aren’t hiring during tax season? Don’t give these people too much.

          1. DaniCalifornia*

            No because we are such a small firm, me leaving would make a huge impact. Of the admins I am one of 3 and it’s become a situation where I know everyone’s job and no one knows my job/is willing to learn it even if I try to teach them. I would probably burn serious professional bridges with the owners and CPAs and this is really my only job with references available for the past decade. I’d rather wait and leave on good terms.

  71. AnonAndOn Original*

    I finally got hired for a full-time job and start next week. Alison’s resume, cover letter, and interview advice has been very helpful. Getting this job removes a huge burden off of my shoulders.

  72. Brigitte Lindholm*

    Does anyone have any advice about being a woman going into skilled trades?? I’m currently in school, but I’m still not sure if it’s for me. Hate to admit but I’m really intimidated by everything (school, job prospects etc). Any advice would be appreciated. (Dont know if it’s important but I’m in my mid twenties).

    1. LCL*

      See if there is an organization for apprenticeships in your area. Sometimes the government will have information, sometimes the trades themselves will have an organization. Information may be available at your local community college. This will help you drill down on what you may be interested in. You can start by typing (my state) apprenticeships into google, that will give you a good start on where to look.

    2. Natalie*

      If you’ll be joining a union, see if there’s a Women [Tradeworker] group at your local. Connecting with fellow women in the field can be a great resource.

    3. YouwantmetodoWHAT?!*

      The construction union is always looking for women. They have classes and a ton of resources. Excellent medical insurance and vacation pay twice a year.

    4. Brigitte Lindholm*

      Thank u so much. I will definitely keep this mind when I get closer to finishing school :)

  73. jackers*

    Working with workaholics. How do you deal? I am an analyst and moved to a new division less than a year ago. My whole team of 7, including the manager, all work remotely from their homes except for myself (I live a few minutes away from one of our corporate offices). I value a very normal work schedule and my workload allows me to generally not have to put in any extra time (we are salary, no overtime), but a couple of others seem to work around the clock sometimes, responding to emails late in the evenings and over the weekends (our manager often sends requests to several of us, so I’m copied on responses, etc. and can see this).

    “Emma”, despite having 3 young kids, can’t seem to not work. For example, she was supposed to be transitioning some month-end processes to me. These processes typically need to be completed by the 5th. If she noticed that I hadn’t started them by the 3rd, she couldn’t NOT do them. I’d be preparing to start the process and find that it was already completed and then see an email from her “I was in the system, so just went ahead and did X.” I had to very specifically ask her this month to not start the process as I needed to feel confident in my ability to do them. Last month, I could see in our system she was running reports at 7pm on January 1 and I just wanted to scream “NO ONE EXPECTS YOU TO BE WORKING TODAY!”

    Yesterday evening our manager sent myself and “Carrie” a request to work together on something. I glanced at it on my phone last night, but by the time I had come in this morning, Carrie had responded with “I ran the reports last night.” Why? I have not gotten any indication that our manager expects this kind of response time and he seems very appreciative of my level of work. But man, I feel like I am not living up to what I should be doing compared to these two. Is it just “ignore, lather, repeat”?

    1. Michaela Westen*

      Is there a way you can find out what your manager thinks about these two working around the clock, and whether s/he expects you to?
      I’m hoping s/he’ll say s/he doesn’t expect it, and you can do your 40 hours with peace of mind and let the workaholics burn themselves out.

    2. WellRed*

      How annoying! I wouldn’t ignore, it however, as it sounds like you aren’t being given a chance to do your job, and to prove you can do the job.

    3. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      You have to stop taking it so personally. They’re not expecting YOU to do it, they’re doing it to themselves.

      Some of us need to be busy or we’re depressed and want to die. Literally. I was snowed in for 4 days and was rapidly deteriorating mentally, it was getting ugly and dangerous on a personal level.

      You need to find your chill-zone on this and let them be unless it’s readily effecting you. In the case of them doing your work for you, that needs to be squashed and needs a conversation. Otherwise, seriously, this is actually a ‘you’ thing more than a ‘them’ thing. It’s exactly what a personality conflict is. You learn to deal with it.

    4. Jane*

      I wouldn’t view this as them being workaholics, but rather that they have a different work style than you do.

      I prefer to be more relaxed about my work hours. If something comes up, I address it, but I also will run an errand during the day or something. So, it may seem like I work around the clock, because I’ll do some tasks during non-traditional work hours, but it all comes out in the wash. This is especially true for days when I work from home.

      For me, this is actually way more chill than when I had a job that expected me to work exactly 8 hours between exactly the hours of 9-5. I HATE being “off the clock” because to me that feels like “You’re not allowed to see if Biff responded to your email” rather than “you don’t have to work right now.”

      I’d just speak up about how it is affecting YOU, saying that you want to be the one to complete your work and you’d appreciate not having it done for you. Because that’s what is really is about, right, not what specific hours others work?

    5. Feeling Your Pain*

      I am in a similar situation and it drives me mad. I used to be in an industry that required mandatory 60-80 hour work weeks (I was paid OT). I did it for about 8 years and completely burned out. It’s taken me years to recover from that and now work a 9-5 job. My whole team is made up of contractors. We are salaried with benefits and any OT must be approved but would be paid the hourly rate our salary is based on. But that doesn’t stop one guy on my team from going home and working nights and weekends off the books. That’s his prerogative I suppose (though my guess is that it’s illegal that he’s not being paid for that time) but it does affect me. When I leave at the end of each day, I have in mind what I’m going to work on the next morning. Each morning, he comes in and has to show-and-tell the cool new feature he started and then proceeds to go on and on about all the lessons learned and how we should do something a certain way going forward. I haven’t even opened my thermos of coffee yet. It’s flat out exhausting and by the time I can start focusing on my own work, it’s almost lunch (there are usually some morning meetings thrown in). Also, we are supposed to pick up tasks in priority order but he will just grab the one that interest him the most and do it off the clock so it takes opportunities away from the rest of us. I’ve just spoken to my PM about it because I suck at hiding my annoyance and her first response was “well, he’s passionate…” to which I said that I really enjoy what I do but I shouldn’t be required to work nights and weekends to prove that I am passionate about it. Ultimately, she agreed that’s it’s creating some potential issues. Honestly, how are we supposed to determine how long tasks really take when someone is putting in unknown hours of time off the clock? It sounds like you need to speak up that you would appreciate being given the opportunity to do your work during normal business hours without having it done for you before you’re even aware of it. Or maybe this company culture isn’t the right fit for you. Either way, you’re not a slacker for wanting to do your job during business hours.

  74. DC*

    I’m starting to think about what I want my next role- whenever that is- to look like, and one thing I have realized is that I would really like it to be a 100% remote role. My current place’s flexibility towards WFH is one that I really appreciate, and I’d like to be able to have that at all times. Can anyone who is in a 100% remote role tell me a bit about the pros and cons to make sure I’m not just looking at it through rose colored glasses?

    1. Less Bread More Taxes*

      I was 100% remote for only six months, so take this with a grain of salt.

      First of all, I got it because I’d been working at a company for 3 years and they didn’t want to lose me when I moved. So it’s possible you could talk to your company and they’d be open to some arrangement like that. Cons:

      * It’s really freaking lonely. And I am an insane introvert. I wasn’t expecting that.
      * It’s harder to get things done. I was in marketing which involved coordination with a lot of different people. When you’re not in the office, your requests might get moved to the next day or the next and it’s a little frustrating.
      * People assume you’re free all the time. Obviously this means you just need to set some boundaries, but no one would ever expect you to work 12 hours a day if you were in the office in the first place.
      * Time differences: there was a 7 hour time difference when I moved. Everything was hard.
      * Sticking to an actual schedule and making sure things get done can be hard at first.
      * You no longer get access to office gossip. This is a real issue actually when office gossip includes work changes that impact you.

      Pros:

      * You never have to speak to that annoying coworker again (except through email).
      * You can eat amazing lunches everyday because you’re not limited by microwaveable food and takeout.
      * More snuggle time with pets.

      1. Anastasia Beaverhousen*

        +1.

        Additionally:

        Pros:
        *You can set your own schedule; I’m a night owl, so ‘no more early mornings’ was a huge plus
        *Being able to run errands in the middle of the day makes life more pleasant

        Cons:
        *As well as office gossip, you might miss out on actually-important information that affects your work
        *You’ll need more self-discipline; it can be a tough adjustment
        *Coworkers seem to be more likely to forget when you’re on PTO (because you’re not noticeably absent)
        *You may end up going whole days without leaving the house, which can feel very isolating

    2. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      I have worked 100% remotely for the last four and a half years. Caveat: I am a huge introvert and I am very good at separating work stuff from home stuff. (My husband is terrible at leaving work behind when he GOES to work; if he worked remotely he’d pretty much never leave work behind.) If you are not good at making that division, it is really easy to find that you’ve worked for 8 hours, then sat down after dinner to “check your email” and worked another three. Some people need an artificial “commute” to settle it in their brains — I have a coworker who goes out in the mornings and walks around the block, then comes back into her house to work, and when she’s done, goes out and walks around the block again to “commute home”. Another one always wears shoes when she’s working and not when she’s on home mode, and a couple put on “work clothes,” etc. Some of my coworkers who have kids or family members at home find that their kids are bad at not disturbing them. (Our WFH policy requires us to not be the caretaker of a child under 12 while on the clock, but even older kids or spouses or whatever can be interruptions.) If you have a houseful, ponder whether that would be likely to be a problem for you. The meme about “Why don’t people realize that working from home is still working” is a meme for a reason; you probably can’t just go off to help your neighbor or sister or whoever run errands or whatever on a whim, but there’s a chance they’ll ask. Yes, I can throw in a load of laundry or take three minutes to load my dishwasher, no, I cannot go over to your house and wait for your cable guy.

      OR CAN YOU? Some people can’t take the three minutes because they get sidetracked on other chores while they’re at it and next thing they know they’ve spent two hours deep-cleaning the house. Know thyself.

      Major pros: I haven’t bought gas since December 28th. The driving doohickey from my insurance company is going to get me a 40% discount on my car insurance here in a couple months because very little driving means very little risky behavior. I live in sweatpants and my dog is basically glued to my hip at all times. Last month I had a 1:1 with my grandboss while wearing red fuzzy zombie pajama pants, an orange t-shirt and my bun was probably a little more disheveled than it probably should have been, and nobody knew to care. :)

      We did have to bump up the internet. Between gaming and my working, we are in the 1% of Comcast’s customers who regularly go over their normal 1 terabyte limit. We did not go with a business plan, because our residential package is robust enough, but if it goes down, they don’t care if I’m missing out on work, because the residential package is not intended for work use, so I have to wait for the fix just like everyone else. (Business packages get priority, but are also both more expensive and multi-year contract based, so ponder your options.)

      As stated, I am a huge introvert. Like, I can happily go a week or more without seeing another person face to face outside of the ones I live with. If you need more contact, that’s something to be aware of too.

      1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

        also, it depends on how much of your team is remote. If everyone is remote, that’s way different than if it’s just you.

    3. dumblewald*

      I used to work 100% remote. It’s also probably relevant to know that I was in my early twenties and I’m someone who likes socializing with coworkers. I found it a little isolating and I would get cabin fever very easily. I DO like having the flexibility to either work from home or in the office like in my current job, but it’s still nice to have an office space. I’m also someone who needs some structure and separation between my work part of the day and off work part.

  75. Onmymind*

    Advice on grad school!

    I’ve been thinking a lot about getting an MBA. I think it could enhance my skills and be a great way to boost my network and expand it from the one city I’ve been in for my entire career. I wouldn’t be using it to switch careers entirely but sort of take a side step from where I am now.

    I’ve gotten a ton of conflicting advice about the degree. I’d love to cast it out to this audience and just see what people think. Is it useful? Is it not?

    1. Minerva McGonagall*

      Is an MBA a “must have” for the jobs you’re hoping to move into? If you’re interested in growing your network, check into the school’s alumni pages on their websites/social media. Are they active/doing specific things for MBA grads? What about networking embedded in the curriculum?

      Personally, I like when the MBA has had a focus applied to it (finance, marketing, healthcare admin, whatever). I think that may be more helpful with getting into that field as opposed to a general studies MBA.

    2. Less Bread More Taxes*

      I’ve only ever known one person to get an MBA and she did it because it was free through her employer. It didn’t really give her that much of a leg up, according to her anyway, when she eventually switched jobs.

      What are you hoping to do in the next 5-10 years? What tangibles are you hoping to achieve with the MBA? For example, I know people who have had liberal arts degrees go into a marketing masters and that’s basically given them the network they want while giving them some real skills to point to in interviews.

    3. T. Boone Pickens*

      It’s essentially an expected value equation. If your salary will increase enough to offset the costs (both time and monetary) and the networking aspect is worth it than do it. If it isn’t then don’t.

    4. LadyofLasers*

      From what I’ve heard about MBAs, they’re mostly useful if you’re going to a school with a very strong alumni network. Like Minerva, I’ve also heard from friends going that route is that your MBA is a lot more valuable when you have a specific focus.

      However any grad degree is expensive, and I think it’s a really good idea to know exactly what you want to do with it.

    5. NoLongerYoungButLotsWiser*

      Have an MBA. Just paid off the loan today.
      But I considered it a bigger investment than buying a house, and I put more research into it. (haven’t bought house yet, see my second sentence).
      I invested in solid career counseling, and then followed that with informational interviewing. I spent 6 months researching those options (I also considered an MA in tax accounting and a law degree). After I chose my path, then 2 years of night school at (insert name of well known school) doing my pre-MBA classes (calculus, economics, etc… my undergrads were in journalism and sociology). I also paid off all my existing debt and my reliable econobox car, and otherwise prepared myself for the transition. Including taking the GMAT (prep classes and the exam were a whole “thing” that I put more effort into than the LSAT and GRE, which I’d also taken but without the prep classes).
      What it did do for me was help me think strategically and prove to myself I could do it. (I didn’t have a lot of self confidence… that’s for the regular open thread some day). I went to one of the top 3 (at the time) and it has a strong alumni network.
      It did not automatically open doors for me (at the time I weighed twice as much as I do now and fat discrimination is a very real thing), but the classes and peer interaction (case studies, projects) did reshape my brain and my ability to process information. I believe the reason I have the job I have now, is because I think so strategically and am (sometimes) articulate with stakeholders. But not all programs are good at teaching you how to think.
      And >10 years out, my current status has a lot more to do with the fact that I am a voracious learner and a relentless over-achiever (if I’m engaged and interested), than that I got my degree at “X University.”
      So your mileage may vary. It’s such a big investment that you need to be certain of your path (if you go full time, you are forgoing two years of income and wracking up tons of debt, which cannot be minimized as a life-changing burden). If I had it to do over again, I’d probably do the night MBA at a good solid state school, and try to find a job with tuition reimbursement, so that I’d take longer but come out “not broke.” And I had 100K to pay back… lots of folks wind up owing more (once you count up the interest over the years). Be sure it gives you the ROI you think it will.
      I will recommend the informational interviewing. I was saved from a real bad career choice by complete honesty from several folks I talked to. With some things, you can owe 50K (or more), be half way through… and not like the field after all. Stuck at that point. No way but finishing.

      1. Onmymind*

        Thank you! This is super useful. How did you find people for informational interviews? Ive thought about that but I’m never really sure how to find people.

    6. StarHunter*

      A little late in the commenting, but I did my MBA part-time at night. It was with an accredited business school and the classes were all taught by professors, so it was no different than the full time MBA program. My company also paid 100% for graduate school so that was definitely an incentive for me. I did it because I was in sales and I didn’t want to stay there. I did have opportunities to move to a product management role in my same company after I completed my degree, but I would have had to move and I didn’t want to. I think it helped most in my critical thinking/analysis/strategy skills going forward and it did have value in that. Probably never got paid what I was worth but again it was more not wanting to relocate. If you are open to moving, and can find a decent evening program so the financial hit isn’t as much, I would take a look at it. The best part about an evening program is after a few classes you don’t like it or don’t see the value you are not out too many $$$.

    7. dragonsnap*

      I’m also considering an MBA. My own personal calculus has arrived at the answer that it will only be “worth it” for me if I can get into a top program. Otherwise I don’t see it as worth the cost. That is not snobbishness on my part — just a cost/benefit issue. For me, it basically depends on 1) whether you absolutely need it to reach your goal (some top consulting firms require it for example), 2) how much debt you would take on / expected post-MBA earnings and 3) personal circumstance (do you have kids? Are you ok to move for the best program?). I’m still making up my mind but have applied and am interviewing now.

  76. I Work on a Hellmouth*

    Oh my friends, what a week it has been. Such a week that blog linking will need to be delayed, but I think you’ll see why pretty quickly. Are you ready for the Hellmouth weird, the bad, and the NO NO NO? If so, please read on.

    The week opened with me driving up to the gate on Monday to find it… well, totaled. One gate door was functioning somewhat normally, but the other was dangling at a crazy, impossible angle and wildly oscillating back and forth with a jagged, twisted, VERY SHARP portion of the arm sticking out from it and threatening to gouge any cars attempting to pass through. So that was fun to navigate! The video captured by the gate camera (which I saw later) revealed that someone had pulled up to the gate at 1:00am on Friday night/Saturday morning, waited for three minutes (I guess for someone to come by and open the gate for them) before losing patience and going straight to RAAAAMMMING SPEEEEEEEEED. I managed to successfully time my entrance so my car remained un-gouged. I then drove past a scene that included the property dumpster surrounded by old mattresses and weird trash piles, screened patios with giant holes cut in the screen, and a few squirrel fights before pulling up to find a line of people with gouged cars and defiled patios waiting for the office to open.

    We also had sewage water inexplicably start backing out of the grates by our buildings and into the first floor breezeways right up to doors of our residents apartments. NO BUENO. A part of me wants to blame the army of squirrels just because it would be funny, but the rest of me would just really like weird sewage and plumbing issues to stop happening. This week we also had mystery flooding of possible sewage water into a lady’s closet and strange backups in another resident’s bathtubs and sinks. All of them. Which he waited three days to report.
    Driving onto property this morning, I witnessed a jogger REALLY hauling it. Far beyond a sprint. And then I realized that he was fleeing a very angy, hissing goose that was in hot pursuit. This is noteworthy both because 1) well, geese are evil but you don’t see people fleeing them everyday, and 2) WE DON’T HAVE GEESE ON PROPERTY. At least, we didn’t… I guess some new wildlife is moving in.

    I already mentioned the holes cut into the patio screens—apparently there was a rash of bike thefts Sunday night (folks, please don’t keep your bikes on your patio or balcony, they could easily disappear). We ALSO discovered that the squatter with the pitbull has been playing musical apartments and that either one of our vendors is purposefully leaving vacant apartments unlocked when they visit or have made a copy of our vacant key. So my boss is in full crimefighting mode again. She also has arranged for a bait car to be put on property and law enforcement have agreed to stake out the property as well. Yay for actually going through the police for some things! However, she has also doubled down on her homemade traps and also on inserting herself personally in situations where we should really just be calling (at minimum) the courtesy officer, so… guys, it’s pretty nuts. She is REALLY, REALLY happy, though. McGruff has been assisting with the more outlandish plans, and seems to greatly enjoy stoking my boss’s “crimefighter” fire.

    Speaking of McGruff, she remains both a terrible and incompetent worker and has nearly caused my good leasing consultant to walk out several times this week by 1) avoiding any actual work and sticking it on literally anyone else, 2) being incredibly creepy and inappropriate and all times, and 3) ordering him around and talking to everyone who isn’t the boss like we’re five years old. I… can’t really blame him. In addition to sharing VERY PERSONAL DETAILS about her life that no one asks for or wants to hear in unsettling ways (she typically loudly says some hook line intended to get us to ask for a follow up loudly, as though she were talking to herself… but then will keep repeating it when no one asks for a follow up before finally just launching into telling us whatever tidbit she had in mind the whole time), she now feels comfortable enough to be VERY VERY touchy. The touch barrier got broken when I wore a very cool (if I do say so myself) jacket that I spent, like, a month sewing in to work. She immediately ran up and started hissing in a very Gollum-like voice about how she had to have it, could she buy it off of me, and (when she learned that I had made it) demands that I make her an identical one—ALL WHILE STROKING THE BACK AND ARMS OF THE JACKET WHILE I WAS STILL IN IT. I politely told her no to all jacket requests and got out of touching range and indicated that I’m not big on touching… but now she feels totally comfortable patting people in the office.

    My boss is not helping to discourage this behavior (probably because she is not the one being touched), and she is also not discouraging the maintenance supervisor from putting out his wife’s Mary Kay stuff—in fact, she’s actively pushing it on residents and people who come in to tour. So it’s as professional an environment as always. My boss also tried to force me to write a slumlord propaganda speech this week so she could read it out at city council meeting in order to protest a (desperately needed in my town) ordinance that would protect tenants from retaliatory landlords, which caused me to break into literal hives. I managed to creatively avoid doing so, which forced her to write her own speech—which was, pardon the vulgarity, pretty batshit and offtopic. Which I know, because we watched the livestream of the meeting back in the office (she basically took off for the whole day to “prepare” and then head downtown to fight for her right to be horrible and abuse power). Someone actually got up to speak just to point out that nothing she said even remotely applied to the ordinance being passed and it was glorious. And, now that I think about it, that was probably the high point of my week.

    As of this writing I am strongly considering claiming sickness and going home so I can apply to new jobs all afternoon.

    1. I Work on a Hellmouth*

      Oh! I can’t believe I forgot to include this! A resident who has been banned from the office for threatening me, spitting on me, and throwing money orders in my face came into the office while I was there alone with McGruff. They were exceedingly belligerent and were refusing to leave, and I was the one having to try to deal with them and tell them that they had to leave and that the courtesy officer would remove them otherwise. McGruff did not help. McGruff did not call for assistance. McGruff just picked up her phone to record it.

    2. Anonforthis*

      I eagerly await your updates every week, mainly because I am hoping that you’ve found another job. But wow, holy cats. I definitely think you need to fake an injury/illness and get out of there today. Start your three day weekend early! (hopefully you get a holiday on Monday.)
      Continuing to send good vibes your way!

    3. Pilcrow*

      Please tell me you recorded the speech to the city council and forwarded it (anonymously!) to the management company that owns the property. They gotta be wondering WTF is going on there. (At least I *hope* they are wondering and not part of the larger dysfunction.)

      I’m pulling for you getting out of the hellmouth!

      1. I Work on a Hellmouth*

        They are kind of delusional and more concerned with pretty unrealistic goal numbers than anything else, but… yeah, I have it bookmarked in the archives just in case. Definitely can’t forward it right now without it being super obvious that it’s me, though. Um. Prior to the meeting I may also have directed a friend who works at a local news station towards the meeting and let her them know that people with the local apartment association were going to protest the ordinance, and I may have steered her towards some pertinent online reviews that show that the people speaking all have a lot of former and current tenants name-checking them for shady treatment/terrible living conditions. I don’t know if it would be a good story or not, but… well, I was really not happy about my boss attempting to use me so she and her friends could fight something that will just prevent retaliatory behavior from property managers/landlords.

        1. Bee's Knees*

          As some people here know, I used to work at a newspaper, and dear heavens, it sounds newsworthy to me.

          1. I work on a Hellmouth*

            I thought it might be, but… I’m definitely losing my sense of normal, so I wasn’t sure. I guess if a story pops up, I’ll know.

    4. Not All*

      Have you thought about applying for the Census jobs? After that place, there is NOTHING you will encounter as a Census worker that would be nearly as bad!

      1. I work on a Hellmouth*

        I don’t know that taking on a federal job right now would be all that secure or stress free, or that I’m not so fried and worn out that I would lack necessary coping skills, to be honest. But it never hurts to consider possibilities!

    5. Weegie*

      Wheeeee! It’s the Friday Hellmouth update! Geese now? What are we all going to do once you get out of there for a better job? (And for the record, I do so hope you get a better job soon :-))

      1. I Work on a Hellmouth*

        Hahahaha, I could seriously keep writing up all of the equally weird or terrible stuff that got omitted or forgotten every time I have written an update for the next few YEARS, even if I left tomorrow. McGruff has only been here for three (THREE!) weeks, and I could probably relay hair curling stories about just her for at least four to six months. EASILY.

      2. Pebbles*

        I’m now hoping for an update where the geese and squirrels fight it out, claiming the Hellmouth for their own kind once and for all!

        1. Move Over Thrawn - Florian Munteanu is BIGGER than you!*

          Honestly, I can’t even decide which is worse, or who would reign supreme in that fight. Might depend on the numbers on each side.

      3. Jules the 3rd*

        GEESE!

        I’m now envisioning a “Goose and Squirrel” animated show, where they harass people on behalf of their demon overlords.

    6. revueller*

      The Hellmouth spits out a new resident type: Demon Geese!

      I would normally advise that you could point out McGruff’s weird behavior with a “What are you doing?” or a “What a weird thing to say/do to a colleague.” But honestly, you’re in an abusive situation and there’s no telling how they will react.

      So glad you have video documentation of how batshit your boss is. I can’t imagine how cathartic it must feel that she revealed her hellish nature to people outside the leasing office.

      Offering the routine well wishes and the obligatory “hope you get to skedaddle off the job into a new (and saner) position soon!”

      1. I work on a Hellmouth*

        Yeah, she is good friends (outside of work) with my boss and with the maintenance supervisor, so… all I can currently do is avoid, avoid, avoid.

        I know that mine is particularly gross and dysfunctional, but I think maybe a lot of super small offices go particularly Dark Side? Moving forward I just want to work in a big place with a huge number of people around me and a good HR department, lol.

          1. I work on a Hellmouth*

            And whoops again, no it didn’t. My brain is fried. But on the happy side of things, I’ve escaped the Hellmouth for the remainder of today, so yay!

    7. Bee's Knees*

      I’m seeing your boss with eyes a la Cruella de Ville ramming the gate. Also, she’s deputized the geese. I’m glad I’m the only one in this part of the building today, because that made me giggle. PSA, geese are mean, y’all.

      1. I work on a Hellmouth*

        Dude, anyone laughing at the thought of birds being descended from dinosaurs has never dealt with a goose up close and personal.

        1. animaniactoo*

          My father, describing himself age 10? 12? with his mother at a living history museum running away from the geese because they were after him. I forget what it was he said he did to piss them off.

          “They are *mean* and the bites *hurt*!”

        3. My Cabbages!*

          My mother describes the time when I was a child where we had to stand on a bench while she literally beat them back with a loaf of bread.

    8. I work on a Hellmouth*

      Another fun detail that I forgot to mention! During the pro-slumlord speech my boss WORE FAKE GLASSES. I don’t know if she already had them or if she got them specifically for this city council meeting, but they were definitely fake and I nearly fell out of my chair trying not to laugh about it. (McGruff was hovering behind me for the whole speech, so I had to keep my reaction on super lockdown.)

        1. I work on a Hellmouth*

          She sometimes fakes a limp, and I have a very hard time not casually bringing up The Usual Suspects in passing conversation on these occasions.

          1. Bee's Knees*

            You know how little kids will pretend to be spies/secret agents, and back in the early 2000’s, there seemed to be lots of information on how to follow someone, lose a tail, collect fingerprints, etc.? Well, your boss ordered her Jr. Detective Kit, and took it to heart.

    9. Nita*

      Oh. After you never found that squatter with the pit bull, I was hoping the other resident had imagined him. Guess not.

      And, you sewed a jacket? So cool!

      1. I work on a Hellmouth*

        Sadly, he is definitely real and has some level of knowledge about which units are vacant… and a way to get into them. Not good.

        Thanks! I loooooove it, it has a fun lining and a ton of extra details (tiny spikes on the epaulets, sequined tiger head appliqué on the back)–I spent FOREVER on it.

    10. My Cabbages!*

      I am sorry to tell you this but McGruff is going to steal your jacket. She will do so blatantly, yet deny it when confronted. The manager will refuse to intervene.

      The next day, McGruff will wear the jacket, talking about what a great store she found it in, and the manager will complement her on it.

      I am willing to bet actual dollars on this line of events happening.

        1. I work on a Hellmouth*

          I can’t lie, I immediately forsaw both possibilities and 1) made sure I didn’t take off all day/stayed out of spill range and 2) immediately took it out of rotation. I was afraid I was being melodramatic, but my boyfriend confirmed that nope, that was the right call.

    11. Delta Delta*

      It’s like every week I don’t think it can get worse. And then it gets worse!

      I’m in the middle of a really awful all-day thing, and I waited several hours because I really wanted to save the Hellmouth for an especially horrible stretch of the horrible thing. It’s a total lifesaver for the horrible thing!

      1. I work on a Hellmouth*

        Well, we don’t know for sure because the stupid gate camera does not capture license plates or anything. We haven’t found the car itself on property (although we found their driver’s side mirror!), but the could possibly have a garage or just not be around during office hours. It could very easily be a visitor or a rando, but it being a resident wouldn’t surprise me, either.

    13. Dr. Anonymous*

      I think you should agree to make the jacket. She will have to buy all the fabric and notions. It will take you months. Months during which she will have to kiss up to you. Months at the end of which you will disappear because you have found a job. Months during which you will have to leave early to work on the jacket. Pretty sure she’ll have to buy all the fabric at a fancy uptown fabric store with a name that starts with P.

    14. AmethystMoon*

      Holy heck, this makes my apartment managers with their passive-aggressive, hilariously but badly-spelled notes seem normal. I guess things can always be worse.

  77. SaraV*

    Does anyone know of a good Android app you can use as a checklist? I’m in a fairly new job, and I’ll think of things I need to do the next day outside of my daily/weekly duties while I’m NOT at work, and would like something that I can write/type down that won’t necessarily get lost in my purse. Thanks!

    1. WK*

      You can make checklists in Google Keep. It also syncs to the cloud if you sign in with a Google account, so you can access the checklists from anywhere you’re signed in.

      1. Lady Alys*

        Google Keep is awesome – you can set time-based or location-based reminders, which comes in verrrry handy sometimes.

        1. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

          I also use keep. Bonus is you can share lists with other people with Gmail accounts, which is how my other half and I share a grocery list. Plus it was already installed on my phone.

    3. animaniactoo*

      I use Wunderlist. It syncs between desktop and mobile, it’s completely free, you can create multiple running lists for different categories, you can set due dates and reminders both for the main task and for subtasks, and you can have “shared” lists where both you and another person (or persons) have access to the same list.

    4. noahwynn*

      I have all iOS devices but Microsoft To-Do is available for both iOS and Android and it syncs with the Tasks in Outlook so you can see it on both mobile and desktop.

  78. Anxiety*

    This is probably going to sound pretty stupid. I’m going through a rough time mental-health wise and my therapist is encouraging me to do what I need to do to cut back on the pressure at work – whether that’s leave early or work from home for the day. I’m lucky my schedule is totally flexible. I work independently and I set my own schedule. (my boss works in a different office and it is only the two of us working together, so it doesn’t make a difference to him where I am).

    But… I sit next to a colleague who is very judgey. He comments on what I eat for breakfast, the size of the font on my screen, my handwriting… He’s not mean about it but I know he observes everything, and I feel like he must be judging me when I’m not in the office, come in late or leave early. (he once made a comment about how most people in our office come in later than he would find acceptable) Any advice on how to stop caring what my coworker thinks? And if he does make comments, any suggestions on how to respond?

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      My goodness, rather than stop caring, I would ask him to stop. “What are you, the narrator” is a recent suggestion from Captain Awkward on a similar question. “I feel like you’re always looking over my shoulder, could I ask you to stop commenting on my routine” is perfectly polite also.

    2. fposte*

      I think your first question might be one to take back to your therapist, but I’m guessing, especially from that self-deprecating framing, that you feel some guilt or shame about your health situation and fear that he’s saying something that 1) everybody things and/or 2) that’s true–that somehow he knows that you *should* be staying later and you’re being bad by not.

      And he’s just a dude who sits next to you who doubtless has all matter of weird opinions. He’s not an authority on anything, let alone on you, so his thoughts on your departure time are no more significant than his thoughts on your haircut.

      If he says “Leaving early?” your answer is a cheerful “Yup!” Don’t explain; you’re not trying to convince him of anything. If he asks something about it that isn’t a yes or no question, say “It’s all arranged with Boss.” It doesn’t matter if that doesn’t fit the question, because you don’t have to answer a question just because he asks it. To you, as far as he’s concerned, this is pro forma and boring and not worth more than a “Dude, it’s all fine.”

    3. wandering_beagle*

      First of all, this does not sound stupid *at all* — it’s hard to be around someone who is so negative, judgey and in your business about stuff where they don’t need to be!

      I have been in situations like this, and what has helped me is empathy (and maybe a bit of pity). Can you imagine what this poor co-worker’s internal dialogue must be like about themselves if this is what they put out into the world?! I guarantee they are much, much harder on themselves. They must be totally miserable.

      Along those same lines, who knows what this co-worker is going through or has been through. A lot of times when people have personal stuff going on or unresolved issues, it leaks out in other ways in other environments. It’s really not about you, it’s about them. For me personally, when I realized that about people, those types of comments didn’t bother me as much.

    4. Anonforthis*

      Yeah, I work with Judgey McJudgerson as well. I just ignore her as she is not my manager. She’s retiring in two weeks, hurray!

    5. revueller*

      Honestly, treating his comments like boring conversation starters might be helpful, because that’s the best case scenario for what he’s trying to do. If you haven’t already, try a redirect. “I appreciate you trying to make conversation around [XYZ part of your routine], but I’d rather talk about something else like [any other topic].”

      1. Anxiety*

        Thanks, you all! I really appreciate the scripts. I’m not sure I’m quite sassy enough to pull of the “What are you, the narrator,” though that did make me laugh. I do like the other options here.

        Fposte, your analysis is spot on, and I am working on this with my therapist. It just is going to take a while for me to learn/rewire these parts of my brain, and in the meantime I feel like I am sabotaging myself over the dumb anxiety of what my coworker thinks of me. But you’re right. He isn’t an authority on me!

    6. Indie*

      How about bland agreement mixed in with a few bored noises? “Yes that is my font”, “Hmmhmm”, “You don’t say”, “What an interesting opinion”, “I don’t really pay attention to other people’s hours”, “I’m a part-timer? Oh yes that was a joke wasn’t it….very good”

  79. Triplestep*

    Global remote workers: How did you figure out when and how long to work?

    I started my new job last week, and I love working from home. I knew I would because two jobs ago I had that flexibility. But now that it’s a full time thing, I am falling into the trap of working too many hours. I am replacing someone who was, um … not good at her job. So there are lots of things to analyze and correct. No one is expecting me to put in this many hours, and I am not being stoic or trying to look like a hero. But once I get into a task, it’s hard to stop mostly because everything is so new, I know it will take me longer to get back into it the next day than it would to just keep plugging way at it in the moment. The global aspect compounds the problem because I do need to be on early/late calls.

    I would love some tips and tricks, please and thank you!

    1. Anastasia Beaverhousen*

      I’ve always just gone with – the same number of hours as I would work if I were in an office. I do check my work emails late at night, because I have colleagues on the other side of the world – but unless it urgently requires a response, and a response from me in particular, I just flag the email for the next day. I don’t work a typical 9-5, but I also do keep ‘office hours’, and restrict my work activities to one particular room in my home, to help keep the mental divide.

      1. Triplestep*

        Thanks, I am trying to do just what you’ve described. I have my office set up in a finished room in my basement, but I will likely make my son’s bedroom into my office once he’s done with grad school this May. He still has stuff in there, and I want to give him a chance to go through it.

        1. valentine*

          Why not take the room now and have someone move his stuff to the basement?

          it will take me longer to get back into it the next day than it would to just keep plugging way at it
          As much as I prefer a clean slate, when I run out of steam or get bleary-eyed, which sharply lowers my productivity and quality, I talk myself into stopping by thinking about how much better it’ll be to have a shorter piece and the necessary steam and clarity.

          For a few weeks, set a timer for 7 hrs 50 minutes and wrap up. Once you know how much you can do and how you feel about it, you can extend that a bit if you can finish something or reach a palatable stopping place by 8 hrs 15 (occasionally) or 30 (rarely). (Unless you’re non-exempt and want the money.)

          1. Triplestep*

            Thanks for the suggestions. I don’t want the bedroom yet because it’s a bit isolated on the third floor of my house. I may welcome that at some point, but not yet.

            I have been starting work at about 6:30am and taking a self imposed break at noon (when Europe shuts down) then getting back to work for another 3-4 hours. Probably that’s too long – maybe I’ll take more breaks. I feel like someone, somewhere is always on!

    2. CDM*

      My husband handles this by taking long lunch breaks. Not every day, but he will go grocery shopping, or go work out or run to the library at midday, to partially offset the evening and weekend hours he works. Sometimes takes an afternoon nap. It’s a nice perk to be able to run local errands at an off-peak time instead of nights and weekends when the shops are busy.

      Another co-worker of his told me once that she got up early and handled urgent emails and early calls, then went to the gym as the before-work rush died down, then went back to work the rest of her day.

      You’ll get into a routine pretty soon, but it’s easier to think about the kind of routine you want to have now and structure it, than try to change one later that you just sort of fell into.

      1. Triplestep*

        Thanks, I’ve been trying to take a self-imposed break starting at noon. I find my European colleagues are still productive and responding to e-mails at least until then, but I can see myself food shopping or going to the gym at that time.

        I hope you are right and that I’ll get into a routine soon!

  80. Anastasia Beaverhousen*

    The other day I talked a bit about my work performing pre-hire due diligence, including social media checks; a couple people seemed interested/curious, so if anyone has questions, feel free to ask!

    Background:

    I work for a company that performs pre-hire searches on job candidates; one of the services we offer is social media checks. (This is much more thorough then just googling the candidate’s name – though that is part of the process!) This is in addition to services like verifying resumes, criminal background searches, looking for negative press coverage, etc.

    The majority of our clients are executive headhunters, and the majority of our ‘subjects are being considered for mid-level or higher-level management, C-suite positions, and the like. However, we have definitely noticed a trend in recent years, receiving requests to screen candidates for much more junior positions; we’ve even had a few requests to screen candidates for internships. So – it’s far more likely that your employer (or, more likely, potential employer) will do this kind of social-media check if you are being considered for a more senior position, but there’s a chance it’ll happen at any level.

    While we’re not exactly privy to our clients’ hiring rationale, I do know that one ~embarrassing~ social media account we recently discovered (think: racist porn) did not cause the candidate to lose the job opportunity. The clients simply asked for our assistance in ensuring the embarrassing content was no longer find-able. For most clients, I think, it’s mostly about the publicly-embarrassing aspect, so as long as the content is not publicly find-able, it’s probably not a big deal. That said, I also know our clients are interested in social media content that speaks to judgement – i.e., posting photos of yourself doing a keg-stand/extremely drunk/consuming illegal substances not only raises the possibly of substance-abuse issues, it raises the concerning question of why you don’t think it’s a problem to post these things publicly. And bigoted content would speak to the possibility that you might cause the company to be sued by displaying such behavior in the workplace. Lastly, our clients are concerned with deeply political content – not that people aren’t allowed to have opinions, but if a candidate would be the public face of a company, many companies would prefer that candidate to appear to be politically neutral, especially if that company is seeking government contracts.

    My advice for anyone worried about social media being an aspect of job searches is simple: check your privacy settings! I know some people create ‘public’ profiles that they intend for their potential employers to find, in addition to their ‘real’ profiles, but this is honestly unnecessary – and if both profiles are publicly viewable, not even a helpful thing to do. Someone in my line of work will find both profiles, anyway. If you do want to reduce the odds of your profile being found, then a) do not associate your phone number to facebook; b) do not use the same email account to login to your LinkedIn as you do to login to a profile that you do not want potential employers to find (in fact, it’s not a bad idea to have a ‘burner’ email for this purpose); c) don’t use the same username on all platforms. But by and large, the only thing you need to do if you’re worried about your online presence is check your privacy settings.

    I also had a question for the AAM community: Right now, I’m training a relatively new employee, who frankly is not very good at this – he keeps missing things, and doesn’t seem to be retaining information very well. I’ve been training him for a couple months, and am not seeing much improvement. Problem? He’s really close friends with my boss, who doesn’t seem to like hearing any criticisms of his friend. Anyone have advice on how to handle this?

    1. fposte*

      On the last, I might try phrasing feedback as requests for guidance rather than criticism. “Burnt still has a really high error rate that coaching hasn’t helped with–is there something you’d recommend or somewhere we could send him that would provide him with additional training?”

      On the first, I think it’s fascinating that the example you give was from an employer who was concerned about the face of the candidate’s social media and not, seemingly, any implications it had for the kind of person he was. That’s not usually how people think about social media history trawls.

      1. Anastasia Beaverhousen*

        If you mean the racist-porn guy, the subject himself was not white (and he was not a participant in the porn, he just had a lot of it associated with his social medias) so it mostly seemed to imply that he had some strange fetishes.

        And the trouble with asking for additional training is that I’m the only person in our this-country-office who is qualified to train; we can’t really send him to another office because that would require an expensive flight. I’ve already had other people do remote-training sessions, and that hasn’t helped either. It literally just seems like he doesn’t have the attention to detail required.

        1. fposte*

          Then leave off the last part, but basically the point is that you’ve taken this person as far as you can, so what does your boss want to do about the fact that he isn’t ready for prime time?

          (And if you already know that the answer is “he’s my buddy and I’d rather keep him than you,” then the question becomes what you want to do about that.)

    2. LilySparrow*

      No advice I’m afraid, but I’m curious about how you found this line of work? It sounds fascinating.

      1. Anastasia Beaverhousen*

        Actually, I just sort of fell into it – I had recently moved states, didn’t have a job lined up, and signed up with a few recruiting firms, one of them called and suggested this. It wasn’t something I’d ever thought about, but I went to the interview and it actually seemed like a good match with my skills. I’ve been doing this for several years now, and am pretty happy with it – it’s challenging, interesting work.

    3. Incantanto*

      Whats the process if negative media stories were found? Theres a couple of media stories from when I was in uni, had a bit of a mental breakdown and basically ran away, I ‘m not sure if its worth trying to get them taken down.

      1. Anastasia Beaverhousen*

        We pretty much report any negative media coverage (unless it’s ridiculously spurious; our clients don’t care about the nasty racist rants people post to racist forums about our candidates). If it’s something like a blog or other anonymous content, we specify that it’s unsubstantiated, but we’d still report it if we found it. That said, we rarely use a candidate’s alma matter as a search parameter: unless the candidate has a very unusual name, and/or it’s a lesser-known/unusually named university, it just creates too much ‘white noise’ in the search (like: I don’t really want to spend time figuring out if the Jane Smith who attended Northwestern and passed out drunk in the quad is ‘my’ Jane Smith. There’s only been a handful of times that I’ve found reportable content about what someone did in university). If your name is common, I wouldn’t worry about it; if it’s uncommon, it might be worth the effort to try, or at least try to ‘bury’ that content by cultivating a more positive (or at least neutral) online presence.

        1. Anastasia Beaverhousen*

          Oh, I forgot to add: while I can’t speak to what other companies would do, I’d have to have a serious talk with my managers before including something like that. We try not to report things that could be seen as discriminatory, and reporting on rumors about someone’s mental health could certainly fall in that category.

  81. Nervous Accountant*

    Major drama earlier this week.

    One of the managers, CO, quit on Tuesday. Huge mess and honestly, a classic textbook example of why counteroffers are not a great idea.

    My manager pushed to promote me to take over CO’s team, but others disagreed saying that I am not leadership material yet. Instead, Jim got promoted. Jim was hired a few years after me, and I had trained him.

    This is really imp:
    I like Jim, and I like working with him and I think he’s the right person for the job.
    I have no bad feelings towards him or my mgr.

    I’ll be totally honest, I went back and forth with being emotional and rational.

    Ultimately I come down on the side of:

    -I realize I’m not ready now but I may be ready eventually.
    -If I get a promotion, i want it to be for the right reasons, not b/c of “seniority”. I’m seeing this “seniority promotion” play out in another team where Stan was promoted due to seniority and both Stan and Stans boss are miserable.

    In fact, Stan also made a super hurtful comment about me not being promoted…there’s so many equally nasty things I could have said in response, but I didn’t want to stoop so low.

    Anyway, I got over my feelings pretty quickly. I got legit good feedback from my boss on what I can do to improve to move up to that level. And it’s not far off from what I’ve assessed for myself, so that’s a good sign that we’re all on the same page, right?

    I know it’s the right decision for everyone involved but is it still weird I got feelings about it? A few people asked why I wasn’t promoted as well. This happened on Tuesday, so I’m way more calm/clear headed about it.

    1. Overeducated*

      It’s not weird at all that you got feelings about it. I think anyone would! If you did get useful, actionable feedback that you feel like you can follow to get to that point, and that Jim was promoted instead of you for legitimate reasons, then that’s probably the best case scenario. It’s ok to be frustrated at the same time as you put that plan into place for getting there yourself, and you sound very mature and rational about it.

      But…if you actually do feel like there were less legitimate aspects of the decision, like that you are undervalued or even that there is discrimination at play, then that’s a different story and you don’t have to convince yourself and us that it’s ok. If that’s the case, which I hope it is not, it might be time to look for a new employer who values you more, at the same time as you try to grow in your leadership potential at current job.

    2. OtterB*

      It is not weird that you can simultaneously think this is the right thing and still be disappointed/ discouraged that you weren’t right for it.

      I think your response to anyone who asks why you weren’t promoted can be simply that you think Jim will do a great job.

      And yes, the fact that feedback from your boss aligns well with your self-evaluation bodes well for your growing into the role.

    3. CupcakeCounter*

      I went through something slightly similar last year. Big boss moved on and boss was promoted to his role which less the AC job open. I applied but wasn’t all in as I had a lot of reservations about the role. We ended up hiring externally and she is 100% the right person for the job. When they told me I was definitely closer to the relieved side of the spectrum than disappointed and a conversation about my career path happened naturally from that.

  82. Free Meerkats*

    Argh! One of my employees is out recovering from brain surgery. I’m doing the required annual report for the state agency that regulates us and he hasn’t written all his inspection reports for last year. So I can’t get the dates of the inspections. I’ve checked his Outlook calendar and dug through the places the reports should be, computer and hard files. Next is digging through his office to find his inspection notes – all I really need are the dates.

    That said, what started as simple cataract surgery for him has turned into finding a tumor and emergency brain surgery. He seems to be recovering well, so that’s good. But there’s no way he’ll be back before the report is due.

    We are in the process of implementing a field inspection system that will avoid this in the future, inspections will be done with a tablet connected to our database in hand. So the date will be there.

    1. CheeryO*

      Ahh, annual report season! :) We (state agency, same field, if you don’t recall) are in the dark ages when it comes to our inspection forms – the idea of tablets was floated years ago, and we haven’t heard anything since. I’m about to inherit some facility assignments from a coworker who basically doesn’t believe in computers, so I feel your pain. Hope you are able to find what you need!

      1. Free Meerkats*

        Yeah. We’re implementing the Remote Inspector Module from Linko. They’ve been our compliance monitoring system since PreWin died. Are you going to be at the AMSA thing in Tacoma in May?

  83. BEC or Legit?*

    I’m a hiring manager for an entry level position that has a decent amount of turnover as a result (expected for the position / industry). It means I’m interviewing a lot and unfortunately, I have a tenuous relationship with our in house recruiter. I’m definitely at “BEC” stage with her for a lot of reasons and am wondering if this is a situation where she’s just “eating crackers” or if it is a legitimate concern that I should push back on.

    Typically in our organization, we communicate by email to set up a date or time for a meeting and then someone will send out the Outlook Calendar request so we get the reminder. Recruiter will just set interviews with the candidate, then send me an Outlook request. She doesn’t ask me my schedule or even check to see Outlook availability first (ours doesn’t show details but will show basic conflicts when trying to schedule over someone’s already existing appointments).

    Since I first noticed this, I’ve been sending her my availability for interviewing in advance. We usually only schedule a few days in advance so usually sending it to her week by week works but every so often she’ll set one further out. She recently scheduled an interview for a day I’m out for a vacation day as noted in payroll calendar and my outlook calendar.

    I’m hesitant to send her my availability further in advance. It’s rarely needed and too often things change. But is it too much to expect for her to check in when she’s scheduling further out than my most recently sent availability goes?

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      No, that’s not expecting too much at all. You shouldn’t have to do this, but have you specifically requested that she check your Outlook calendar before scheduling interviews? If you’ve already done that, I might just be a little p/a with her. “I’m confused. Why did you schedule an interview for the 24th, when my calendar shows I’m not available that day?” I mean, sure, you could keep it classy and say “I’m not in the office that day, please check my Outlook calendar for open times and reschedule,” but sometimes going full-on p/a just feels right, ya know?

    2. Anonforthis*

      That’s annoying. Most people who work in office jobs understand how to use calendaring systems such as Outlook, but it’s certainly possible that she doesn’t. So I’d probably start off by telling her that even though you send her your availability, she should always check your calendar for a conflict before scheduling anything, as last minute things crop up all the time. You also also let her know that if she sees a conflict, she should check with you to see if you can move whatever the conflict is. That way you’re showing that you’re trying to be helpful while still getting your point across.

    3. Kathenus*

      Agree with Rusty that you should ask her to check Outlook. Because you’ve been sending her your availability she may have come to rely on this versus being more proactive on her own. If you ask and she still schedules when there are conflicts then it’s a different issue. But I’d start with presuming she has no malice, ask specifically for her to use Outlook, and then see what happens.

    4. only acting normal*

      That’s legit. It’s basic courtesy to check someone’s availability if you are scheduling something on their behalf. The fact that your calendar system allows her to check this on her own makes it daft that she’s not doing it. The only reason may be if other people there don’t routinely keep their Outlook up to date so she doesn’t trust the info there.
      You still shouldn’t have to pull out the info and send it to her in a different format. Each time you would normally send her your availability, just say “my Outlook calendar is up to date, so you can rely on that for checking my availability.”

      It’s mandated where I work that our calendars are both up to date and view-able to all in our organisation (individual items can be made private). I *still* have to reassure people that they can rely on my calendar for scheduling.

  84. Nervous Accountant*

    On a separate note, part of my job now is managing a team of remote staff.

    I was doing it very loosely before (just b/c it’s more point of contact rather than supervising/managing) but it was only 2 of them, and then Jim took over.

    Since then 4 more have been added and he’s moving to a new team now and I’m back to managing them. These are all professionals with 10+ years of experience and were vetted very thoroughly so they know their material, just need help navigating our systems etc.

    With all that, anything I should keep in mind? They set their own hours, and are really self sufficient. We do weekly check in meetings along with the office IM to chat. Most are pretty self sufficient and don’t need much coaching. I just odn’t want to mess this up.

    1. revueller*

      Haven’t been a manager, but have been managed and worked with a part-time remote team before. It might be helpful to reach out to the new team members individually. You can use it as an opportunity to introduce yourself, explain that you’ve worked in this role before, explain you can help support them, and ask if they have any questions.

      Doing this on an individual basis may help you more easily find out any problems people are having navigating the system. (Sometimes people are confused and embarrassed that they can’t figure out something or that processes keep changing, and they don’t want to bring up those complaints in a group setting.)

      1. Nervous Accountant*

        Yeah we did that. 3 of them already knew me and the other 3 were introduced. We had a meeting where Jim did a “hand off” to me.

        We;re also doing weekly meetings on an individual basis.

        For now, I might just be reactive and work on being more proactive after the busy season. Thoughts?

  85. coffeeforone*

    I’m a Manager on a team with a collaborative work dynamic. One of my coworkers is a Senior Manager, but it’s becoming very clear that he struggles greatly with “big picture” thinking and I find myself hand-holding this person (who is getting paid more than me) on how to make decisions.

    Current example we’ve been asked to work together to address a current challenge for the business. I suggested framing the challenge, the options, and our recommendations + why. Senior Manager responded: “No no, that’s way too much work and more than what is being asked of us – our job is just to brain dump ideas and let ‘the executives’ run with it.” I pushed as much and as clearly as I could, but he was adamant that we should just send a long-ass email with random ideas and questions and no discernible format. Of course, ‘the executives’ came back with “thanks for getting this started, but can you make this more concise and frame your recommended strategy more clearly?”

    Literally she said exactly what I had initially wanted to do for the project. Senior Manager’s response was an exasperated sigh and: “Ugh, more work to do!” It…. It wouldn’t be more work if we had done it the right way the first time? I’m not sure if this is an experience gap or a confidence, but it seems really clear to me that the higher up you are in title, the more responsibility you have to shape strategy and direction. The Senior Manager seems to blatantly reject this and I’m tired of projects taking twice as long because he won’t set out a framework or just raises his hands and says, “well, my job is just to throw out some options ” (and someone else’s job to actually shape them into a plan, I guess).

    I want to be more proactive at addressing this with my coworker, but can I, as a lowly Manager, tell this “senior” person they need to “think more strategically”? (FYI, I know this can be a total buzzword, but to me it means: try to understand the context of the problem, ask and answer questions to get more insights, and clearly connect activities you’re proposing to the “big picture” goals of the project/business).

    The flip side is to go to his or my supervisor with the problem, but I can’t help that “tattle tale” guilt or that it’ll look like I’m saying I’m just smarter and more capable than him. Any suggestions for how I can challenge him in the moment without seeming cocky? Or should I be flagging this to someone more senior, and if so, what do I say?

    1. KR*

      Can you say something like, “The last few times we’ve had to do X, we have got feedback about being more concise and fleshing out our ideas rather than just sending a long email.
      Let’s try this my way and if management comes back and says they don’t like it, we can go back to how we’ve been doing things.”

      1. coffeeforone*

        Helpful, thank you! I think that’s a great response and also frames it more that we’re in this together.

        I guess my remaining hesitation/concern is that I’m having to nudge my more senior coworker to listen and actually adjust to feedback… which is super frustrating. But maybe I’ll try this a few times to see if it sticks.

        1. JS#2*

          I’m currently in a similar situation, except I’m not even a manager! I’m in a work group that was tasked with strategic planning for a certain aspect of our business, and I was deputized by the group leader to project manage the process (and somehow lead higher ranking people in the group).

          I’m very much a big picture person and I’m having trouble figuring how to get people to stop thinking about random ideas and taking a step back to discuss rationales and goals. There’s a senior manager on my team who sounds like yours, and I’ve tried to wrangle them through a mix of flattery (“That’s an interesting idea! Let’s see what the group thinks…”), redirection (“That would be a positive change, but it seems to be out of our project scope…”) and quietly getting support from other team members. I don’t know if it might work in your situation to try to meet with other members individually to persuade them to support the process you want, and then approaching it from a “WE’d like to try it this way” instead of a “I’d like to try it this way”….

          It WOULD be good if you could get advice/support from your supervisor, but I guess it depends on your relationship. I’m lucky that my supervisor has a lot of insight about this senior manager, and can recommend how to phrase things or frame conversations. I don’t think it’s a “tattling on a senior manager” issue… if you’re noticing this person has trouble with big picture thinking, it’s not going to be a surprise to anyone who works with them. If you talk to your supervisor, maybe frame it as a “How can I help the project move in this direction and get this person on board?”…

          Good luck!!

  86. Public land lover*

    Regular poster going anon…I have a headquarters-based office job, and like my organization but hate being stuck inside in a high COL city away from mountains. I just got referred for a fascinating sounding position at Super Famous Western Park. AAAAAH! I applied for this several months ago and initially got a “you were not referred” email, so this might mean they worked through the cert of qualified veterans, didn’t hire, and then went back for another non-veteran cert. I’m back in the running, baby! Wish me luck!

    Of course, in the time since I first applied, my spouse found a good but non-permanent job in our local commuting area, and there are…not a lot of employers around Super Famous Western Park. That’s literally exactly what happened four years ago when I last got a “dream job” offer, I turned it down, and have been plotting my escape ever since. Why is this dual career thing so hard?!

    1. FFHP*

      My DH and I have played it safe with careers to stay close to family. We’ve both had some good roles/opportunities but by and large our careers have been dullsville. We hope that changes in the years to come.
      If you are offered the Super Famous Western Park job, TAKE IT!! Especially since your spouse’s job is not perm. Do this for yourself!! Fingers crossed that you get this opportunity, and that your spouse can find something good in the area, too.

      1. Public land lover*

        We’ve both given up good opportunities to stay together as well, those tradeoffs are tough sometimes! Unfortunately, spouse’s work is not in a field that there are a lot of openings for (*cough* see the AAM post from earlier this week about how to keep up hope in academia), which is why their current and last jobs were both soft money. In our current city, there have only been 2-3 permanent slots to apply for every year, and spouse didn’t even get any interviews this year, but at least there are academia-adjacent alternatives here.

        In Western Park, the nearest potential employer is 3 hours away, so they’d probably be looking at a career change. To what, I’m honestly not sure. But surprisingly they’re willing to consider it because they went to school in that region and loved it. We’ll see if I even get an interview. Thanks for the good wishes!

    2. Less Bread More Taxes*

      I so admire couples that seem to do this seamlessly. Ugh. In my case, it’s worked out okay so far. We’re moving for my job and the plan is to stay there 3-4 years. Then we’re moving for him going back to school, so that’ll be 2ish years. So in 5-6 years we’re going to be in a situation where one of us will have to make some sacrifices (probably me).

      Friends of ours are in a really crappy situation in which they just bought a house near their workplace (they both work at the same company). His job is high-upish and secure… and hers is not. She may be facing a layoff this year. And there are like zero companies in their area that would hire her skills.

      No advice… but I feel ya.

      1. Public land lover*

        Yeah, I admire those couples too, but there is a massive amount of luck involved as well! We know tons of dual academic couples, and a lot of the time it is really a matter of the One Job opening up at the right time, and/or a well-connected advisor reaching out to pull some strings. Some people just get lucky breaks, and that’s great for them, but I think it’s harder and takes more commitment to deal with the tradeoffs when you don’t get them.

        I wish you and your friend much luck. These are hard choices, and uprooting and moving is tough too. We were planning to stay in our current city for a while just because prospects at least exist for both of us, there’s advancement potential for me, and we’re sick of moving – we’re actually looking for a house. But if the mountains call….

    3. NPS Employee*

      Not sure which park you are considering, but please please be warned from someone who has worked for all 4 of the major federal land management agencies for the past 20+years, NPS is really not a dream organization. The best known situations of Grand Canyon and Effigy Mounds are not exceptions, except in the sense that they eventually were publicly exposed. Like any large organization, there are GREAT offices and AWFUL organizations with most being somewhere in the middle. But out of the 4, NPS definitely has the most internalized misogyny, the worst safety culture for field employees, and the poorest financial accountability along with having absolute cultural conviction that We Know Best And Are Always Right. We also manage some of the most spectacular lands and resources out there. The public considers national parks to be theirs and is incredibly invested in them…yet the NPS still has a deeply entrenched culture of “…this would be a great park if it wasn’t for those damn visitors”. Outside of Regional Offices, it also really low-grades, especially for anything related to Visitor Services. Historians and architects do much better though!

      Please go into this agency (if you go) with your eyes wide open and not thinking it’s perfect. It is a very, very worthy agency but it also has a LOT of problems that are much more hidden than other agencies’ issues. (ummmm, if it’s Yellowstone, Cam is great & if you’d be directly working with him you’ll probably be very happy!)

      1. Public land lover*

        Thanks for your comment, you make good points. I’m already in the agency, so I’m well aware it’s not a perfect organization (though I haven’t experienced harassment personally, I’ve seen multiple superstar women leave their jobs because of it, and think there are other issues that are less headline-grabbing but equally harmful to the agency). Like many or most of us, though, I stick around because I believe in the mission and so do enough of my coworkers to make it worthwhile. Moving into office work has enabled me to get into a professional series and jump grades pretty significantly from my park guide days…but I miss being in a park! Wish me luck !

        1. NPS Employee*

          Whew! It’s a really important organization and does a lot of great things but it breaks my heart each time we get a new employee from an outside agency and they come in so idealistic, thinking they’ve finally landed their dream job and then watching as reality sets in.

          (My current park isn’t TOO egregious, it’s more the “Chinese water torture” style of misogyny…much more subtle and hard to call out because any one instance doesn’t sound like a big deal. It’s like living in a cumulative effects analysis lol)

      2. Public land lover*

        Oh…I know! I’m already in, and well aware of many of the issues. But thank you for sharing your honest perspective, it’s important not to idealize and reminds me that the park isn’t just the resources, it’s the people and work environment too. (Wish I could say which park, but that would definitely be too personally identifying!) If the opportunity comes through, I need to talk to people who will be honest about those, because in a large western park finding an alternate employer is probably a lot more difficult than in my current major city full of alternative federal employers.

  87. Fake Old Converse Shoes (not in the US)*

    Today in “My weird job hunting adventure”…
    A recruiter tried to guess my mother’s age based on my middle name. She said she was intrigued because it sounded “old”. “Doesn’t it sound old to you?” Nope.
    No need to say she never called me again.

  88. Mashed potato*

    While I’m fortunate to have a job, I realized it’s not long term because the things I’m doing a high school graduate could do it. :/ I been applying for new jobs trying to get experiences but I feel like I’m stuck in the rut when I graduated college and have no experiences again. I don’t want to lie on resume but I feel like I can’t even get interview with lack of relevant skills.

    I’m also working on forgiving myself because I had been shy and awkward and low confidence up until the last year of my life basically, and there could have been other jobs I would have had if I didn’t flunk interviews after interviews after I graduated.

    Also I think this company blacklisted me but I kept on applying? First time I applied they called me for screenings now they just send me reject email whenever they see my resume? Lol

  89. Can't Sit Still*

    We finally got a headcount approved, screened resumes, set up interviews and the day before the interviews started – Surprise! Hiring freeze! Excuse me, taking appropriate business needs into consideration before hiring. Technically, we can hire with approval, but no new hires will be approved, so…But we can hire as many temporary employees as we want!

    I am seriously annoyed. By the time our company reaches the in-person interview stage, we just want to ensure the best fit. We had three candidates and we were pretty certain we were going to hire at least one, if not two. (We rarely bring in more than two candidates for in-person interviews for a single position. They’ve been screened and had multiple phone interviews and we are ready to make a decision.)

    Anyway, our candidates all withdrew, naturally, because they were very clear initially that they were looking for permanent positions.

    The thing that really annoys me is that I said we should do temp to hire for this position to begin with. But no, we had to go the process to get headcounts approved, which takes forever, and then wait for HR to screen resumes, then review the resumes, have the recruiter screen the candidates, do phone interviews, arrange in-person interviews with a minimum of 4 different interviewers’ schedules…all to tell the candidates that we’re no longer hiring.

    So now we get to start all over again screening temporary employee resumes. At least temps only have to do two in-person interviews. I’m hoping our vendors provide pre-screened candidates, so we don’t have to wait for the background checks to come back.

    I’m seriously considering whether or not I should be looking for another job. It’s not the changes, it’s the lying about them that bothers me. Specifically, “we’ll continue to hire at the same pace we have been hiring.” I suppose we’ll have layoffs next, which will be fun, since we’re currently understaffed, and have been for a long time. Actually, my position has a title adjustment coming, which is going to make it incredibly difficult for me to find an equivalent job (I’m pretty sure that’s the point). So it’s probably time, even though it’s only been two years.

  90. Kate*

    So, I’m looking for a new job, and usually I’m pretty chill about it but right now it’s consuming my life. I know that a job that I recently interviewed for was checking my references but now…radio silence. I am losing my mind, checking my email every three minutes, and it’s been the most unproductive work week of my life. Part of my stress is that this job would take me back to the city I left 2 years ago, which I miss terribly. So it’s not just tied up in being interested in the job and wanting the challenges it represents, but also in getting back to my life. No question here…just frustration, and I’ve already bored all of my IRL people with it. :)

  91. CatCat*

    I sometimes get some really random results on LinkedIn from “you appeared in X searches” this week. Sometimes I look up where the searcher was from because I am curious. Yesterday, I discovered someone in my same field with my exact (not common) name, but in another state. I’ve actually occasionally received emails for this person at my personal email address because its FirstNameLastName at really common email service, but I never knew what field she was in (and it appears she only recently entered the field a little over a year ago). It just came up because she works at a company whose search had made me appear in LinkedIn’s “you appeared in X searches” this week feed. Anyway, I feel like this explains the sort of random search results I end up in because someone might actually be looking for that other person.

    1. OtterB*

      My daughter is finishing law school this year and is job hunting. She has the same first and last name I do. (I thought of it as naming her for my grandmother, not as naming her for me, and really didn’t anticipate the confusion that would ensue. We go by different nicknames, and have different middle initials, so it could be worse.) Anyway, I routinely see Linked In searches from organizations that are clearly looking for her instead. We are both amused by this.

  92. Anonish*

    I think I’m going to tell my manager I’m pregnant today. I’m only 6 weeks but I’m starting to feel miserable and I have a lot of upcoming doctors’ appointments because I’m high-risk due to a pre-existing condition. I’d rather she know I’m pregnant than think I’m slacking off at my job and/or interviewing.

    2. OtterB*

      Good luck with it.

      Be explicit if you want her to keep it quiet until you’re ready to tell the rest of the office.

      1. Anonish*

        Thank you! She has a good track record of being discreet, including with a coworker’s recent gender transition, so I am not too worried she’ll tell anyone without my explicit consent.

    3. D.W.*

      I ended up telling my manager at 6 weeks for the same reasons and the rest of the office caught on around 28 weeks! Lol

      She kept it under wraps, and so did I :)

  93. Michaela Westen*

    Hi everyone,
    My colleague was laid off against my boss’ wishes. At the time I thought it was because of her performance, but it wasn’t. Upper management felt he had too much support.
    I work for a health care organization that’s owned by a corporation. The layoff was decided by organization’s upper management. There are indications they and the corporation aren’t happy with my boss. I used to think as long as my boss was happy with me my job was secure, but since this layoff I don’t think that anymore. He couldn’t stop them from laying her off, and he wouldn’t be able to stop them laying me off.

    It doesn’t look like that will happen any time soon. I have plenty to do and my colleagues need my support. I looked up some articles about the financial value of employees and made a list of things I do that upper management might appreciate. I decided to focus as much on supporting my colleagues and other managers as on my boss, and make sure my name is on everything I do.

    If it looks like I might get laid off, I want to look for another position in this organization. Mainly so I won’t have the stress of a whole new job in a whole new org., and to keep my accrued benefits.

    I have two questions for you wonderful commentators:
    1. Is there anything more I should be doing to show my value to upper management and other (some are corporate) managers?
    2. What would be the signs that I might get laid off and should look for another position?
    Thank you!

    1. Mrs. Carmen Sandiego JD*

      1. Sometimes there’s nothing you can do
      2. Signs: leadership makes a highly unorthodox unscheduled visit to the building/your office for team morale and says everything will be ok. Or if they’re very transparent, they asked those employed under subdivision teapipers to raise their hand. I did. They said, your division should start searching for another job sooner than others. In another company I left before it got dissolved, there was severe overcrowding of 4 to a 1 person cubicle so much that 50% teleworking turned into 90% teleworking where we lost face time with everyone and only talked via phone. After I left, many people were laid off due to budget cuts.

      1. Michaela Westen*

        Thank you! Sounds like generally signs of going downhill and leadership trying to boost morale while not addressing the real issues.

  94. Kristina*

    How do you include social media examples in your portfolio for when you are asked to provide samples of your work. Screengrabs? Copy paste into a Word doc?

    2. Anonysand*

      I will either take screenshots and insert them into a document (saved as a PDF), or upload them into an online portfolio as images through platforms like Behance.

  95. CeeDee*

    What the WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT? I just came here to be like NO this is wrong. Saw an article about “slang prison terms you should use with your coworkers” and just no.

  96. 653-CXK*

    Need to vent (not an angry vent, but more of a ‘release anxiety’ vent)…

    In the past couple of weeks, I’ve been interviewing for a new position. Last week, they asked for my references – a very good sign. Two of my former teammates gave references, and I think they contacted my immediate supervisor.

    I got a phone message yesterday – they couldn’t contact one of the other supervisors who I worked with for three years before getting promoted. Then I looked at the email message I had originally sent and transposed the extension number. I gave them the right one and I haven’t heard from them yet.

    The potential employer has been wonderful about keeping things up to date, but I’m a nervous wreck. (If you remember the old cartoons in which the father is waiting outside the maternity ward, chain smoking cigarettes, that’s me.) I fear getting yet another letter of Nope, but the comfort will be that I got a hell of a lot further than the past interviews (where I got a rejection letter the next day). Or perhaps I’m worrying too much…they probably did contact the supervisor(s) and they’re just comparing notes. Either way, I’ll be glad when I get a final decision – I’m prepared for the rejection, but I’m hoping for an offer.

  97. teapot terroir*

    How do I “manage up” my defensive, emotion, and passive-aggressive boss who takes everything personally, and then sometimes comes around 24 hours later and pretends like everything was their idea in the first place.

    *very* small team. no grandboss or hr exist. my coworkers agree with my personality assessment, fwiw.

    1. Jasnah*

      I don’t know if you can, but while you look for other jobs, I would focus on what outcome you want: being vindicated and having your input acknowledged, or getting the job done? If your boss eventually comes around but claims they came up with the idea, focus on the good outcome, now your boss is on board. You can’t control your boss’s emotions, just focus on the facts in front of you and getting work done.

  98. Lissa*

    Had a very awkward encounter with a coworker (temporary only, just for this contract) where I thought she was joking, and she wasn’t…. “Susan” and I had been quite friendly and chatty up to this point during our work together. To make a long story short, she showed me a (fake? dunno) exchange on Facebook where people were talking about not hiring people who didn’t like dogs. I said something like “glad the person who hired me is a cat person!” and she said “you don’t like dogs?” incredulously, and I said “nope, total cat person!” or something. She then got really quiet and said “I don’t trust people who don’t like dogs.” I was still having a hard time believing she was serious (note: we are literally talking about the animals here, I am NOT using cats and dogs for a stand-in for political parties or something) so laughed it off and joked about being a monster.

    She then had a look on her face of horror and I was realizing she was actually upset about this, so I turned the conversation back to work. Ever since this happened early this week she has been WAY more frosty with me. I … feel completely ridiculous about this! I really thought we were joking around, like how people call each other names for liking pineapple on pizza or something. Part of me wants to bring it up but like…the only way I can rationalize this is that she thinks I meant I would treat an animal badly because it wasn’t my preferred species or something, but that’s just wild. We work together for another couple months so I really hope this gets better.

    1. Beehoppy*

      I am the doggiest dog person of all time and I think she’s being ridiculous. Plenty of people don’t like dogs for plenty of good reasons, plenty of people are indifferent to them. It’s people who don’t like pets/animals at all that give me pause, but even then it wouldn’t be an actual big deal. She is the one who should feel ridiculous.

      1. dumblewald*

        Many nonWestern cultures don’t have a practice of “adopting” pets, so a lot of Americans who judge people for not having pets come off culturally obtuse as well.

        1. Lissa*

          yes this is also very true! When it’s kept to obvious jokes the “omg if you don’t love my pet don’t talk to me” stuff doesn’t bug me too much, but when it starts creeping into really affecting someone’s view of other people it’s a bit of a problem IMO. Also some people just don’t get emotionally connected to animals in the way some people aren’t big “kid” people – it isn’t a character flaw IMO so long as they aren’t harming anyone!

    2. Reba*

      First, your coworker is being weird about this.

      Second, if she’s still cool to you next week, why not bring it up? “Hey, I was thinking about our cats and dogs conversation. I get the feeling you were being more serious than I was and that my comments might have upset you. I was kidding, you know that ‘cat person vs. dog person’ is such a common playful conflict (like cake vs. pie, NY pizza vs. Chicago). I want to just be clear that all animals are great. I just really love cats.”

      I mean, this is way more careful handling than it should require… but you could give it a try.

    3. ElspethGC*

      Welp. That’s… very odd. Is your coworker formerly of the dog-obsessed workplace that forced out an LW with allergies?

      The dog-cat dichotomy is bizarre. I don’t inherently dislike dogs, I think they’re cute, but I don’t want one as a pet. I would be a *terrible* dog parent. Why do dog people think that makes a terrible human being? (Also, why does it seem like most self-professed cat people are happy to just say “Dogs are cool but I don’t want to live with one” while so many self-professed dog people seem to think that cats are devilspawn who are incapable of love? Are they just the most vocal ones?)

      Why is this a dichotomy that needs to exist? Why can’t we just agree that fluffy animals are cute and leave it at that?

      1. dumblewald*

        I’ve observed this exact thing and it is so bizarre! It might sound simplistic…but I think it’s kind of an introvert vs extrovert thing?? People who are expressive just don’t understand other people/creatures who aren’t as expressive (ie introverted humans or cats), and tend to perceive them as being cold/rude. Some of these types of people also perceive lack of attention as direct hostility, and cats represent that. Or I could be getting carried away with this theory.

        1. valentine*

          so many self-professed dog people seem to think that cats are devilspawn who are incapable of love
          They think cats have dog body language and are judging them on it.

          Lissa: I would leave Susan be. You can do without the hassle. If she’s ever in a position to hire, however, you may want to warn someone about her strong bias.

      2. dragonsnap*

        Lissa’s coworker is being ridiculous and bizarre. Not representing dog people well! That being said, I don’t think it’s fair to extrapolate to all dog people. I would guess that you happen to have this “debate” / conversation more with people on the opposite “side” from you. So, as a cat person, you’re a target for weirdo dog people. As a dog person with similar overall friendly goodwill as you, I encounter this more with cat people. I think that’s just because that’s when it tends to come up — if we agree, the conversation goes a different direction.

        Anyway, to Lissa’s actual problem. The meme idea someone else suggested could be a cute way of patching things up if it’s necessary for to do so. Otherwise, I agree that it’s best to ignore and rest assured you’re not the one making things weird.

    4. Sybil Carpenter*

      Oh wow. Maybe send her a cute gif of a puppy and a kitten playing, along with a note saying something joke-y like “I guess dogs can be trusted after all”. But honestly, I would probably just ignore this and treat her the same as you always do because this is her problem not yours.

    5. No Tribble At All*

      Yeah, that’s baffling. I think your best bet is to have a private conversation with her somewhere and say “I’m getting the sense you’ve pulled back from me since I mentioned I’m a cat person.” and let her respond. You don’t want to get into a cats vs dogs debate, but if you worked well together before she found out this fact, emphasize that you’re still the same person she’s known.

    6. Dust Bunny*

      It’s like she took a particularly tired meme and made it a life philosophy. That’s a better reason to not trust somebody than not liking dogs.

      I’m a cat person to the bone. I’ve owned dogs and loved them as individuals, but, no kidding, even my last dog preferred cats. But I think all dogs deserve good homes and to be loved. I don’t hate dogs, they just don’t work for me as pets.

      2. Lissa*

        Yeah! That’s why I didn’t realize she was serious – I’ve seen the memes and so on but I have a really hard time computing why somebody’s pet or animal preferences dictate anything about them as a person – it’s like, some people like kids, some don’t. Honestly even if somebody dislikes all animals unless they are mistreating one I don’t think it means they’re awful or anything, despite the internet memes. :)

        The weird thing is up till now she hadn’t been constantly bringing up her dog or anything. So I didn’t have any warning signs!

    7. dumblewald*

      She’s definitely being ridiculous but…I’ve met people like her. Many dog people have a weird superiority complex in a way that many cat people don’t. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that dogs are friendlier than cats, but it’s weird. I grew in a neighborhood where people’s dogs were aggressive and scary, and people would get legitimately offended when I reacted scared to their pets growling at me!

    8. Wishing You Well*

      You might want to clarify with her that you thought she was joking or that you thought the Facebook thing was fake. It might make the next 2 months go better.
      A neighbor who took me seriously when I was joking prayed for my soul for 2 years. That’s a lot of lost productivity.

      1. Lissa*

        Oooof! Yeah that’s uncomfortable. My only worry about saying I thought she was joking is that it’ll come off like I think her views are ridiculous (I mean….) and make things worse? Like “I thought this thing you obviously feel very strongly about and care a lot about was clearly so silly it couldn’t be real!” kinda thing?

        1. Indie*

          I think if that is your read, your gut is telling you that this topic is too sensitive to approach lightly. You should be able to, but she has clearly has some heavy stuff packed up in this idea.
          I would consider giving yourself the gift of not caring; you did nothing inappropriate and if she’s upset by such a mild and common topic she needs therapy.
          However if the relationship is important to you I would give it one, brief, sensitive attempt to reassure her: “You seemed really very upset with the idea that I prefer cats over dogs the other day. I’m not sure why?”
          I might add: “Just to be clear I would like to see all dogs in the world healthy and happy and unharmed. It is literally just a preference and I didn’t mean anything sinister or serious by it.”
          My friend prefers cats and his dog loving (abusive) father hurt his pet cat and ‘disposed’ of it when he was small; so he does get a bit of an internal reaction when someone says “ugh, cats!” However he realises that those are his feelings to manage and even he would see this level of partisanship as ridiculous.

  99. Gloucesterina*

    The field of corporate learning and development (not sure if this is precisely the right term) came up in the comments about deprogramming from academia.

    Could folks with experience in this field briefly explain how they arrived at it, and what skills and experiences are valued in this space? Is a strong profile with regard to educational technology or online teaching necessary (again, I’m not sure if I am using recognizable words. . .)?

    And as a side question: would experience training and supporting people teaching college courses (educational development or faculty development work, as it’s usually called) be useful in this space, and if so, how might one frame that experience?

    Thanks!

    1. Justin*

      Was a teacher of adults rather than higher ed, but I do employee training, so.

      “Could folks with experience in this field briefly explain how they arrived at it, and what skills and experiences are valued in this space?”

      Project management, time management, experience with adult education and technical (not necessarily technological!) subjects.

      “Is a strong profile with regard to educational technology or online teaching necessary (again, I’m not sure if I am using recognizable words. . .)?”

      We tend to say eLearning. And, it’s a plus but not necessary if it’s not stated in the job description.

      “And as a side question: would experience training and supporting people teaching college courses (educational development or faculty development work, as it’s usually called) be useful in this space, and if so, how might one frame that experience?”

      Yes. Talk it up in a cover letter/interview mentioning how you worked with different stakeholders who needed to improve their skills.

      It’s kinda dull, this work (I may leave after this job), but it pays well and it’s stable and so it’s not so bad.

    2. Carolina*

      I went through a graduate-level certificate program at a university, which was a good choice for me. My classmates were teachers, corporate trainers and people looking to break into the field.

      In my experience, technical skills weren’t nearly as important as writing skills have been. I’m picking up technical skills as professional development, but I did need the education theory and an introduction to elearning that the certificate gave me.

  100. Anon anony*

    The woman that I work with questions me whenever I tell her something. If I tell her that boss wants us to go to a meeting, she’ll question if boss called me or how/where I received the info. If she has a question, she’ll also question my answer. Where did I find it, etc. Now, I don’t do the same thing to her and I know what I’m talking about, so I don’t know why she does this. Am I making a big deal out of nothing? How do I approach this with her without sounding defensive?

      1. valentine*

        A (too?) generous read:
        Meetings: She feels left out or like you’re not just sharing info, but telling her she screwed up by not knowing, so she wants to know if she missed an email, yet won’t directly ask.
        Q&A: She wants to learn how to A her own Q’s.

    2. Iron Chef Boyardee*

      “If she has a question, she’ll also question my answer.”

      Try this on for size: ‘If you don’t trust my answer, why did you bother asking me in the first place?’

    3. Electric Sheep*

      Perhaps Alison’s “what’s going on here?” script could be useful if you try Rusty’s script a couple of times on an instance by instance basis, and she still keeps doing it. Something like, “I’ve noticed that when I tell you something, really frequently you ask me a lot of follow up questions. I don’t mind getting questions sometimes, but this is a lot. What’s going on here?”
      Maybe she feels out of the loop and this is how she expresses it? Who knows.
      Try and be actively curious about the answer, because that supresses defensiveness. You can also practice saying it in advance.
      Good luck, it sounds very frustrating!

  101. Suspendersarecool*

    Job hunting after completing a new degree: How soon after graduating do I need to find a job in my new field before my (STEM masters) degree gets “stale”? I’m not planning to look right away because I’m about to have a baby and my current job is decent if unchallenging, but I don’t want to wait too long and risk not being able to break into the field. Thoughts?

    1. Mashed potato*

      For me the first year I graduated I had like Mayhe <10 interviews then the years later it slow down even more then 0

      But then my resume started out as first job in college so I'm in a different scenario

    2. DataGirl*

      How do people deal with resentment when in a job/company where everything is an exercise in futility due to incompetence, in-fighting, poor management, and occasional corruption? I know the immediate answer is LEAVE but assuming there are reasons that can’t happen immediately, what are some coping mechanisms for emotionally divesting from the crazy?

          1. DataGirl*

            No, couldn’t find a way to post a comment that wasn’t nested. Sometimes the comment section here acts weird for me. I’ll try again next week, thanks!

    3. CheeryO*

      Total shot in the dark without knowing the exact field or your location, but I think you should be fine for a year or two since you have a job history. If you can do a little something to show that you stayed current in the field, that would help – membership in a professional organization or whatnot.

    4. Autumnheart*

      I think it depends on what types of jobs you’re looking at, and how much experience you have in addition to your degree.

      If your field is one where you can do your own side/hobby projects (e.g. Github), and can demonstrate that you’re keeping your hand in via projects and networking, then you shouldn’t have an issue with a “stale” degree.

      1. Suspendersarecool*

        I have about 7 years of (unrelated) professional work experience and I’ll be looking for entry level analytics jobs in a major city. It is somewhat possible to do this as a hobby, but that’s not what I’d be doing with my spare time.

  102. Human Embodiment of the 100 Emoji*

    So one of my coworkers on my new project is just starting in my field and is a Complainer in a big way. We work outside, and the last few days have been crappy weather, but Oh. My. God. It never ends. Its starting to get on the nerves of people who don’t even work on my team.

    I feel like I’m obligated to sit her down and have a frank discussion about it, since I’m more experienced and no one else seems willing. I feel like she also needs a wake-up call about whether she’s cut out for the field, but that’s like, not my responsibility, right? Has anyone else had to deal with this? Any tips?

    1. City Girl*

      What is she complaining about? The weather/coldness?

      “Jane, as I’m sure you noticed in industry X and the role that you signed up for, it involves working outdoors, sometimes in extreme conditions. Some ways to manage the cold include wearing lots of layers/snow boots/heated coat/gloves etc. but the working conditions will not be changing. If you find that this type of role doesn’t suit you, perhaps it is a good idea to look for other opportunities where the environment is more suitable for you.”

      1. irene adler*

        Yeah, this is good. Tactful.

        Some folks, especially when new, have a need to chat about something, but just don’t have the sensitivity to realize that ‘complaint talk’ isn’t the way to go. I think City Girl’s script will get her to realize that ‘complaint talk’ just isn’t what co-workers want to hear – from anyone. If she does stick around, might engage her in a conversation or two on other topics, just to give her some clue to what are acceptable topics for chats.

      2. Human Embodiment of the 100 Emoji*

        Yes, the weather, the terrain, dirt, bugs, everything. Thanks for the suggestion!

        Irene Adler may be correct as well that she’s a talkative person on a rather untalkative team and trying to make conversation.

  103. AnotherAlison*

    Travel [mis]adventures! I went to the airport Monday night, only to have my flight through O’Hare canceled, and having to leave the next day. FINALLY got to my destination with only an hour delay from the scheduled Tuesday arrival time, met with a client, and had to change our plans because of the massive snow in Green Bay–we couldn’t get where we needed to go. Accomplished one of the four things we were supposed to do Tues-Wed due to their weather, then flew back to Chicago, drove across Michigan to meet the same client and another vendor in their office Thursday morning (got to my hotel at 11 pm, finished up an hour of the drive in the morning for the 8 am meeting) then uneventfully flew home last night. (Thankfully I got in ahead of the massive snowstorm that is starting in my city right now.) I also had to travel to Wisconsin during the polar vortex a couple weeks ago, and drove across MI in an ice storm in January. I am freaking tired of this weather and my travel.

    1. iceclown*

      Travel misadventures is such a big mood. I went to a trade show this week and got delayed enough to miss my connections on the way there AND the way back.

  104. Llama Maybe*

    I’m planning on applying to a company that works in the llama insurance industry, but in researching them on Glassdoor the one flaw they have is that there’s a culture of getting promoted based on who you know. How much of a red flag is this? Are there any interview questions I can ask to feel out how bad my particular potential department would be in that regard? I currently work in rice sculpture imports and exports, I have some transferable skills but it would be a new industry and one that I’m hoping will allow me to grow more professionally since I’m kind of at a dead end promotion-wise currently.

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      This wouldn’t stop me if the role I was interviewing for was one I wanted. It might if I was just using that role as a foot in the door, but I generally don’t recommend doing that. You can always seek promotion outside the company after you’ve built up skills if you end up finding this to be true. Also, if it was only in one person’s review I’d suspect it was a bitter ex employee and take it with a grain of salt.

  105. PB*

    My team is stuck in a high traffic/high volume area of the office. Right now, due to internal issues, we can’t move to another space, or construct any permanent walls. However, we do have some budget available for other solutions. We’re considering putting up a glass partition, but I’m not sure how well that would temper the noise. Does anyone have any experience with this?

    1. Undine*

      I sit next to a conference room with a glass wall that doesn’t seal well, and we can hear almost everything they say in the room. Unless the partition is literally floor-to-ceiling with no cracks, it’s not going to help. Hard surfaces reflect noise; soft surfaces absorb it, so a fabric partition would be better.

      1. PB*

        Thanks, Undine. Fabric would also do a better job of providing a visual boundary between my team and passers by. We’ll look into it!

  106. Anon Anon*

    I have a significant mood disorder, which is mostly under control and only rarely affects my work life. But I live in the far northern United States, in a region with long, gray, cold, snowy winters, and over the past several years I have been increasingly suffering from a predictable, serious annual depression (right about… now. Eff February).

    I can’t take any time off right now, but I’m thinking ahead to next year. I need to plan to spend some time somewhere sunny in early-to-mid-February.

    My organization offers, in addition to PTO, up to six weeks of annual medical or caregiving leave. It’s designed to accompany FMLA leave (but is more flexible, especially with regards to caregiving). So for a head cold you’d use your usual PTO; if it turned into pneumonia and you were out for two weeks you would use the medical/caregiving leave.

    So my question is: Would it be reasonable to request medical/caregiving leave for this time, or should I plan on using PTO? (I have not gone through a process to get intermittent FML… because of stigma, I guess.)

    1. INeedANap*

      This is a really interesting question…

      The problem is that spending a few weeks somewhere sunny in February LOOKS like a vacation in a way that spending a few weeks recovering from pneumonia doesn’t. I totally get that it isn’t in this case, and I do understand this is a legitimate medical thing to help treat seasonal depression, but I also think that there are a lot of workplaces that would not easily accept it.

      On the surface, it seems reasonable to request medical leave because depression is a medical issue. I wonder what the doctor’s note would look like, though? Just saying you need X amount of time off work? What kind of documentation would they require to approve this?

    2. Anonforthis*

      I guess it would depend on what process your company has in place to request the leave and get it approved. If they’re running it concurrently with FMLA, I’d assume that you’d have to get it medically certified, especially if you’re also applying for short term disability income replacement. It’s worth checking into with your HR folks. If all of that sounds like a hassle you’d rather avoid, then I’d recommend just planning to use PTO.
      And you’re absolutely right about February. I’m in Pennsylvania, and ugh, winter can’t be over soon enough.

      1. Anon Anon*

        Quick clarification: the medical/caregiving leave is paid, and is in lieu of short-term disability, so I wouldn’t be going through that process.

        I’ll obviously need to talk through this with HR, and I’m ok with either outcome (I have plenty of PTO, but of course I’d rather use the medical/caregiving leave if possible). I’m just not sure if it will seem like a ridiculous request or not.

        1. Anonforthis*

          I don’t think it seems ridiculous if you can establish a medical need, but the optics, as noted by another poster, aren’t great – you apply for medical leave and then someone sees a Facebook post from you in sunny vacation spot. So just keep that in mind.

          1. nym*

            I would address the optics up front with HR when discussing it – “I have a medical condition that means I need a break in Jan or Feb that might look from the outside as though I were taking caregiving leave to go on vacation. What sort of documentation would you need from my doctor to show this need?”

            And then if you’ve worked it out with HR and possibly your boss, I wouldn’t worry to hard about coworkers. I would, however, avoid posting sunny vacation photos on facebook if you have friended coworkers!

        2. WellRed*

          This kind of reminds me of a letter where the person broke his arm so was on disability because he had a very physical job and couldn’t do it. He also had a pre-planned vacation that the broken arm would not have interfered with but the consensus was, it would’t look good. I realize in this case, the vacation is meant to be medicinal but I think the same caution about optics applies. If you have the PTO, use that.

    3. CheeryO*

      Just to play devil’s advocate, what can a sunny place do for your health that sleeping in, taking vitamin D, and using a therapy lamp at home can’t do? Would you be able to get specific enough documentation from your doctor to get it approved?

      I get SAD too – maybe not as severe, I’m not sure – and part of me thinks it’s a little precious to use medical leave for a vacation, but I also don’t think it would be ridiculous to ask.

      1. Anon Anon*

        To be honest, I’m not sure if getting a week’s worth of sunlight will help.

        But I have years of evidence that sleep, vitamin D, full-spectrum lights (plus therapy, medication, exercise, meditation, etc.) aren’t sufficient to keep me healthy over the winter.

        1. Autumnheart*

          Maybe it’s time to consider a long-term plan to move to a sunnier latitude? Kinda sucks if you like everything else about your current lifestyle, but if it’s that much of a detriment to your health, then maybe it’s worth looking at.

          1. Anon Anon*

            Thanks, but I’m not looking for advice about where I live, just whether to request medical/caregiving leave for this issue.

            1. valentine*

              This is definitely medical leave. Check your employer’s FMLA rules to see if you have to use up the medical leave, then PTO, and ask your doctor for intermittent FMLA, because I don’t know that your employer expects you to use the medical leave every year or for the same period.

    4. Electric Sheep*

      They might be reluctant because of the reoccurring nature of your medical need – eg if they say yes for one year, what about the following year? They might expect that leave to be more for one off situations. But you know your office better than me, and I think that has a big effect. In the abstract I’d say they’re more likely to say no, but I don’t know enough about your office to really make a prediction.

  107. psychresearcher*

    Small point of order-type question from someone relatively new to the workforce; should I typically give potential networking contacts my personal email, rather than my work one? It feels a bit strange, and it means I’ll have to check that account more carefully, but since I expect to be changing companies at least a few times during my career, this seems like the way to do this; is that right? And then, when I leave a job, I should give my personal email to anyone I’d like to stay in touch with who so far only has my work email? Small thing, I know; I’m just not sure how it’s typically done.

    1. OtterB*

      People handle the networking differently. I’m inclined to give work emails to potential networking contacts but some people will give a gmail or some such.

      When you leave a job, definitely give your personal email to anyone you’d like to stay in touch with.

    2. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain*

      I suggest that you create an account — email, LinkedIn, Facebook… whatever the next thing is — specifically for keeping a business network that is separate from your current employer. That way if you change your personal email, or employer, you update it in one spot and won’t lose any contacts. I try to keep my true personal life separate from professional, but building a business network is sort of both personal and professional.

    1. just a thought*

      my co-workers and I used to talk about how our toxic office should be a reality show. “This just happened. Doesn’t it remind you of Real Housewives?” and discuss how it would relate to the “plot” of the season and how it would be edited. We were all into reality TV though

    2. Just Elle*

      Find ways to detach. One thing that’s really important for nurses, fire, military, etc is to have a ritual of changing into civilian clothes when they get home, to put emotional distance between themselves and the job. You can find your own ritual.
      Maybe it is changing out of work clothes and turning on an essential oil diffuser or some music.
      Maybe its setting a timer for 5 minutes to vent to the dog when you get home, and then policing yourself to remove thoughts of ToxicJob from your mind the rest of the night.
      Maybe its sipping a cup of tea while mindlessly surfing cat pictures on the internet for 20 minutes when you get home, and then switching into get-things-done-at-home mode.
      Maybe it listening to a funny podcast on your way home from work.
      Maybe its doing a quick 20 minute workout when you get home.
      Maybe its journaling when you get home.

      Also, and this is a dangerous game to play so make sure its hidden well and NOT typed on your computer… but when I had a truly toxic job I kept a notebook of all the preposterous things that happened. When I was bursting at the seams to tell SOMEONE (aka complain to a coworker who inevitably would throw me under the bus) I’d jot it down in my ‘notebook of preposterous things’ instead. At one point I even made a bingo game out of it it. aka “ToxicBoss yells at me.” “Someone uses the term ‘Here’ in a condescending manner” etc.
      If you have to vent, whatever you do, don’t vent to your coworkers. It won’t end well.

      1. High Flight*

        SO TRUE! Sitting around in my BDU’s was the worst way to relax. “One thing that’s really important for nurses, fire, military, etc is to have a ritual of changing into civilian clothes when they get home, to put emotional distance between themselves and the job.”

    3. iceclown*

      I drive by myself so a lot of times I’ll just yell about it in the car as if I was talking to a friend in the passenger seat. It helps get the worst of it out.

  109. Dutchie*

    I got an offer from another department at my job… And I don’t know how to tell my boss. He reacted badly in the past, blocking somebody’s transfer. Plus he’s not my immediate boss except HR-wise, he’s very senior and not really approachable. But my immediate “boss” is not decisive.

    My transfer would mean twice as much money, so if they don’t let me go, I’m ready to leave the company, as I’m seriously underpaid.

    1. Wishing You Well*

      I hope your transfer goes through. Blocking a transfer might qualify as “tortious interference”. Just knowing that phrase might be helpful. Just sayin’.

      1. Not A Manager*

        Blocking an internal transfer? I don’t see how it could be tortious interference, since it’s the same contracting party.

  110. AnonEmu*

    In the airport, waiting for my first hop on the way to Australia! Thanks to everyone for all their advice! (And if people know of celiac friendly places to eat in LAX that would be awesome). Super excited for the new journey and thanks so much!

    3. Electric Sheep*

      I was looking for an update from you! I hope you let us know how it’s going when you get here!

  111. Anon for this (but so excited)*

    I was hoping someone in the AAM community has some experience to share about job hunting in Oslo, Norway as a foreigner.
    What I’m particularly interested in is what level of Norwegian is required usually. (I know this can vary a lot between jobs and industries. I am an economist/mkt professional, early career w 5 years of exp, and can speak English and other European languages fluently, learning norsk now.)
    Any insight is more than welcome.
    Thanks y’all.

  112. anonymous for this*

    Hello, this is mostly directed at other trans and nonbinary people but if anyone cis has witnessed coworkers/colleagues transitioning, that’d be useful as well.

    I’m starting my first steps into transitioning as nonbinary and am starting to wonder how to approach it at work. I’m in pre-pre-planning mode and I don’t make that much money (plus a couple thousand in savings but student loans are about to happen) so it likely won’t be relevant in terms of physical changes for a little while but I’m anxious. I work full time in a small department and am very new (less than one month). Everyone is very nice and seems at least accepting/friendly about LGBTQ+ stuff as a general thing (I’ve mentioned having a girlfriend multiple times), but I don’t know how they would handle trans employees (no gender neutral bathrooms are present on campus for example). I don’t plan on changing my name so that’s not an issue, but I’m mainly trying to figure out what coming out looks like and how best to approach it, especially when. If anyone has any experience or advice, that’d be great.

    1. Just Elle*

      I’m cis but…
      Personally, I think being so new at work is a benefit. Just establish what you want your new normal (eg, bathroom use) to look like now. That way, its not something new/observable to ‘pass judgement’ on, just a learned part of who you are as they get to know you.
      And of course, you can drive yourself insane worrying about the 1% who might care. Don’t. You’ll never make them happy no matter what you do. So focus on what makes you happy, and the fact that 99% of people are reasonable humans who really don’t have an opinion about this part of your life, and are far more interested in you as a human they interact with at lunch than they are in your gender identity.
      And finally, trust me, no one is thinking about or aware of you, your identity, your bathroom usage, etc to the extent you are. It might feel like you’re wearing a neon sign saying LOOK AT ME DOING THIS THING but chances are no one will think anything of it if you don’t make it A Thing.

    2. School Inclusion Specialist*

      cis person, but a colleague at a former job at a non profit transitioned, including changing his name.
      We received an email informing us that he was transitioning and referred to him by his new name.
      I worked in a different department, but would communicate regularly with him. I appreciated the email heads up so that I could use his proper pronouns/name. I don’t remember much else–everyone was pretty matter of fact and, at least, in my department there was no gossiping (including no liberal back patting of how good we were at being inclusive).

      All this said, the field I was in had professional development on how to support trans youth and many people put their pronouns as part of their email signatures.

      I hope you find a supportive community at your place of work.

    3. Ange*

      Non-binary person here – I’ve literally just come out at work. I had a conversation with my boss first, and she had individual conversations with my coworkers about it, and then we sent out an email saying that I was non-binary and what pronouns I wanted people to use for me. We also attached a couple leaflets from HR about transitioning and what non-binary is, so that people had a source of information that wasn’t me.

    4. anonytrans*

      Trans FTM… I transitioned after about 1.5 years on the job and about 9 months into my current role. It’s mostly been a non-issue. I know there are people in the office who are not generally supportive of anyone or anything not related to being cis, white and male, but they have kept their mouths shut in my presence and that is all I ask frankly. They are also not on my direct team. My team has been very supportive.

      My company was very proactive. Our CEO insisted on sending out the update and made it clear that anyone with problems could see themselves out. We had a meeting with my direct team and HR while everyone else got the email, had a quick conversation, and went back to work. Some people had to know in advance, mainly: my boss, her boss (VP), the CEO and VP of HR. The employee handbook was quietly updated and our health insurance was changed for the following year. Since I was the first person to bring it up in the company, there was a bit of time involved while HR researched the topic [that they had been kinda behind on] and made changes.

      The health insurance has honestly been the biggest issue. The TPA is idiotic and staffed by rude slugs, but my company makes the actual rules because it’s self-funded so I do have coverage, even if the reps are awful. Take a look at your company’s full health insurance policy and see what it covers. If gender transition isn’t covered, you may need to advocate for change to the policy.

      Are there any single-stall restrooms on campus, gendered or not? That may/may not be a reasonable accommodation depending on if they are near you – there’s no real reason single stalls need to be designated for one gender or another so they could potentially just put up gender neutral signs instead of M/F. Otherwise you’ll have to decide if you want to just pick the men’s or women’s or advocate for access to both. Either way, I think your employer should make it clear to everyone which facilities you are accessing and that you have their full support to access them as needed.

      If you’re not expecting physical changes soon, you could just wait and see how people relax around you after a few months. Coming out at work is a really vulnerable point since it affects you not only socially but potentially economically if things go south, so I’d give yourself some time to really settle in with your boss, team and company as a whole to get a feel for how it will go over. You may also find some other LGBTQ employees in the company, and how they are treated will be a good reference point. There were openly gay employees before me and I never found out in a “I’m gay!” conversation or from rainbow flags everywhere, just remarks that Sue has a wife, Linda or Pat has a partner named Joe, etc.

      Also look into any city, county or state-level protections you may have before you come out. I’m protected by a city ordinance, which is better than nothing, and that was some reassurance for me.

  113. Bummed*

    So last Friday I had a phone interview which I thought went really well. The interviewer said that the earliest I would hear something would be Tuesday this week. I haven’t heard anything. I sent an email yesterday to follow up but still nothing. I’m out of town for work next week, which I mentioned at the end of the phone interview, so I had really hoped to hear something this week. I know many things could be going on but still, I’m bummed. I thought the job seemed like a decent fit and I really wanted to get to an in person interview.

  114. Anon Anon*

    My grandboss’ executive assistant is incompetent and it causes me (and everyone) a lot of trouble. I think I just have to live with it, but I wonder if anyone has any suggestions.

    Assistant makes constant mistakes. This week, they have included: sending a meeting reminder with the wrong date a dozen VIPs; spelling two VIP client names wrong in materials distributed to them; accidentally removing a meeting from Grandboss’ calendar so he was surprised when the meeting participants showed up at his desk; sending out a meeting reminder without checking with the person running the meeting (so needing to send a follow-up communication that included the attachments that should have been included in the first/only message); making a typo in a VIP clients email address so he wasn’t getting her communications about it (and not telling anyone that his messages were bouncing back over the past three weeks), etc.

    All the mistakes described above are related to the program that I run, so her incompetence does directly affect my work. I’ve talked about it with my manager (extensively), and to Grandboss (less extensively, but very directly; I’ve described the specific mistakes, and said “I cannot run the program with Incompetent Assistant”).

    I’m making a pitch for a different staffing structure next fiscal year (which is a few months from now) but in the meantime… what can I do? (And what do I do if my pitch is rejected? I’d estimate I have maybe a 60% chance of getting this change through.)

      1. Anon Anon*

        I appreciate your reaction! It’s helpful to hear that I’m not crazy — she really is as incompetent as I thought. I’m way past my last nerve with this EA and I’m worried that I’m overblowing her incompetence as a result.

  115. A. Commenter*

    Happy Friday everyone! I’m in middle management in my department. People occasionally bring in treats, homemade and/or store-bought. I like to do it sometimes too, but there are a few dietary restrictions in the department (vegan, gluten-free, etc). It isn’t practical for me to get enough variety so that everyone can have something (if I’m stopping on my way in for donuts, I can’t also make other stops to get a couple gluten free and vegan things). My question is, since I am in management, should I just not get anything if I can’t be sure I’m getting something for everyone? If everyone can’t eat a donut, should I just not bring anything in? I hate to make people feel left out or forgotten, but it’s also a little sad to not be able to bring in anything any more unless I can bring in a variety. What do you all think?

    1. fposte*

      Is it for your team specifically or for the department in general? I think I have the same response but it’s just more so in the first case: you don’t have to make sure everybody is covered every time, but you should sometimes bring in treats that could be eaten by the people excluded from the others. IOW, if you’ve got gluten free, kosher, and vegan co-workers, don’t keep bringing in lard-fried donuts.

      1. A. Commenter*

        It’s generally for the department in general – my team specifically doesn’t have any restrictions. That’s a good middle ground, thanks!

      2. Bostonian*

        I was going to say the same thing. I follow a plant-based diet and don’t expect to always partake in whatever anyone brings in treat-wise for the office. However, I do really appreciate that one person (who is a regular treat-bringer) will sometimes bring in something just for me..

    2. Autumnheart*

      I would suggest rotating your treats. One time you bring in bagels, one time you bring in a vegan treat, one time you bring in a gluten-free treat, etc. People without dietary restrictions will still be able to eat the treats, and I’d like to think that a fair number of otherwise-unrestricted folks would be open to trying a vegan or GF item–especially in the form of free office food. I don’t think most people will mind as long as whatever you bring in tastes good.

    3. Gatomon*

      If it’s a random thing, it’s probably not a big deal. I am sort of glad I can’t eat all the cookies/donuts/bagels that float around now that I’m getting older. If treats are a regular occurrence, then an occasional something for those with restrictions is a good idea. Also, don’t discount healthy snacks! I have a few coworkers who avoid sweets and garbage food but would probably like if someone brought in some nice teas or trail mix.

      DO make sure you accommodate dietary restrictions for meetings, parties or trainings where lunch is provided and people are expected to partake in the meal. It sucks to watch 30 people eat and have to explain yourself over and over again, or cobble together a meal from a vending machine at the last minute. It also sucks to have to foot the bill for your own lunch because the training included lunch, even though you couldn’t eat it because the organizer couldn’t be arsed to find out if everyone can eat chicken sandwiches.

      1. A. Commenter*

        We absolutely accommodate everyone for meetings or organization-supported events; these are really just informal, “I thought it might be nice to do this randomly” individual events.

    4. Cheesesteak in Paradise*

      You could also expand your idea of treats do not exclusively be pastries/bread. Could you bring in a fruit plate or a bunch of bananas/oranges/grapefruit or a few carafes of coffee if we are talking breakfast?

      1. A. Commenter*

        Sure, sometimes; it all depends on what the person is able to pick up on the way in or make at home. Fruit is always welcome.

  116. Second chance*

    Can i recover from a bad first impression in an interview?? I applied for an internal position that would be a lateral move for me in the same company but different location. Same job title and same pay just bigger staff. I did not get the job. They choose someone from outside and they lasted less than a month. The position is open again. I applied again. The feedback i got from my manager was that i seemed too shy and scared. My answers to the interview were great. Another interview is coming up and i dont know how to fix what i did wrong before. I have anxiety and stopped taken my medication but plan to begin it again. Other than that, how can i appear confident?

    1. foolofgrace*

      When I was very young, 16-17, I was too intimidated to go into a certain “ritzy” store. Finally one day I pretended I was my best friend, and waltzed thru the doors. I hyperventilated a bit but the world didn’t come to an end, and the experience has been useful since. Pick a friend who’s confident and pretend you’re her. At least to get in the door and shake hands / do greetings.

    2. Anonymeece*

      If you received that feedback from your manager, could you talk to him/her and maybe ask some more questions about what gave that impression? Maybe you were wringing your hands or something obvious that you could fix. Your manager may be reluctant to tell you anything, particularly if you’ve already re-applied, but it’s worth a shot.

    3. nym*

      Practice, practice, practice.

      Can you remember any of the questions from the first time you interviewed ? You might want to think through how you would answer them this time when you are driving or in the shower or something. Practicing in front of a mirror can help too, or writing down your answers and then coming back to revise them a few times. Especially because you got feedback that the answers you gave were great but you seemed shy, repeating your answers a few times to yourself may help with confidence in delivery.

      Do you have a friend who would be willing to do a mock interview with you? Set her up with some typical interview questions, and go through them a few times until the answers roll off your tongue.

  117. VeryAnonToday*

    My sister just left a really toxic job after only a month there. It’s got me wondering why employers are so blind to the issues in their companies. Sister AnonToday is on her way home right now and she rang me to rant about how glad she is she’s leaving and honestly I’m surprised she didn’t walk out after a week. Problems at this company include but are not limited to:

    – employees having to eat lunch in their cars on freezing cold days because there’s over 100 people in the building and enough lunch seating for about fifteen people and you’re not allowed to eat at your desk
    – bullying being brushed under the rug as ‘banter’
    – junior level employees being called ‘children’ and ‘little ones’ by senior staffers (for context, there were apparently emails sent round asking ‘can you little ones please remember to put the post bags out before 4pm’ and similar)

    Worst thing was that when it snowed like mad a couple of weeks ago where we live, the company wasn’t sending people home while the roads were still passable. Three employees totalled their cars and one was stuck on a motorway for about four hours. I don’t know much about how bad weather policies work but if the weather forecast and local travel news is saying ‘these roads are impassable due to weather conditions’ surely that’s a sign to send your staff home?

    She’s taking a week off before starting her new job and I really hope it’s better than the one she just left. The turnover rate for the role she just left is something like twenty within the last eighteen months so… yeah.

  118. MaternityLeaveQ*

    Wondering if people had tactical advice on how to take maternity leave. I work for the government, meaning I accrue sick leave separately from annual leave and it never expires. Going into maternity leave, I had about ten weeks of sick leave saved. Per policy, I can take six weeks of that saved leave for birth but 8 if I had a c section. I unexpectedly ended up having a c section. I had planned and saved about 8 additional weeks with annual leave and comp time. I would use all the comp time, but still have about a week of annual saved after that.

    So, question. Would people take the extra sick leave or save it? I previously did not take much sick leave thanks to a flexible work policy, but I know with a kid that would change. But I could choose to either stay out longer or save my annual leave instead. Annual leave expires but is more unrestricted in use. I am bouncing back from the surgery okay. I am not super committed to my return date either and my office is supportive.

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      How long has it been since you gave birth? What seems completely do-able at 3-4 weeks might seem less so at 5-6 weeks, when the baby starts sleeping less.

    2. OtterB*

      If it’s feasible for your role / commute / child care plans /etc., maybe look into phasing your return? So instead of taking one more week off, take two weeks where you work half time before returning to full time?

    3. DriverB*

      I would go with phasing your return to work, as another commenter suggested, or saving that extra week. I used to have lots of sick time saved, but needed to use so many days in my son’s first year. Babies are building their immune systems, so unfortunately they get lots of little colds and fevers that will require time off.

    4. Nita*

      I guess it depends on your child care arrangement… if your baby will be home with someone, it may be better to take the extra leave up-front. If they’ll be in a day care, save at least a few days you can use for illnesses. My oldest was sick a lot when he started day care. Luckily I could telecommute while watching him, or I would have blown through a year’s worth of sick days in two months.

    5. Marge Simpson’s wig maker*

      At my old job I got 8 weeks for a csection as short term disability. It did not come out of my sick leave. I took an additional 2weeks vacation pas company paid time off. I kept my week of sick time available to take if baby needed me to stay home.

  119. Rebecca*

    I’d like to expand on the “Mary” situation from this morning’s posts, didn’t want to comment there because it felt like it was a bit off topic.

    My workload is heavy, and is really heavy in certain months out of the year due to our industry. In my case, I’m really busy from late January through early May, then late August through late November. It’s quite hectic. I am older, have been in this role a long time, and while I have 11 years until retirement, I really wish I could train a backup person sooner rather than later. The last few people assigned to me have failed, because they were brand new people right off the street instead of current coworkers who know our systems, lingo, etc. and would actually be able to help. And, my manager has assigned me to train them in my busiest times, rather than the calmer “off months”. I’ve tried to convince management that we need to take a different approach, promote someone who has at least a year or so experience, train during less busy times, but to no avail.

    This brings me back to “Mary”. I have to wonder if the new person assigned to help her is actually making her further behind in her work? I know in my case, I have more work on my plate than a year ago, but because I’m not struggling to train someone who wasn’t working out (and ultimately quit after 7 months), I’m able to actually get my work done and I’m not under so much stress. In Mary’s case, I totally get that the new person is eager to help, wants to make a good impression, etc. and I also suspect Mary’s manager just assigned a body to help without actually asking Mary what she really needed. I could be wrong, but I’ve seen this happen over and over again, as in, managers just do and throw bodies and time at things rather than actually listen to the employee to see what they need. And yes, I am vocal about what I need, my manager thinks she knows what is best, so there you go. Nothing changes.

    I hope to make some headway this summer. I’d really like to have someone trained as my backup in case of sickness or an accident, but really, if the company isn’t all that concerned, not sure why I should be. I handle one of the largest customers for our company, so you’d think that this would be something they would want more than one person familiar with.

    1. valentine*

      I think you might be able to get a new person you can train in the slow months. But maybe offer this as a compromise after asking for a current coworker (expecting to be shot down).

  120. CS Rep By Day, Writer By Night*

    The acquisition process of my facility by a competitor has begun, and it’s been extremely stressful and ugly at times. Many of our customers are upset, and there are a million unanswered questions about benefits, pay, rules, and whether or not the new company intends to keep our facility up and running in the long term (which I’m hearing is pretty unlikely). It is absolutely galling to have to train people on all the things I do so they can replace me, and they have such a dramatically different approach to customer service that the whole experience is an exercise in frustration.

    I do have a phone interview when I get home from work today, and I’m planning on spending some time this weekend applying for a few more jobs. My guess is I’ve got a 6-12 month window before we get closed down and I’m out of a job.

  121. Beatrice*

    I’ve had a rough week. I had a tough performance conversation with an employee who turned around and accused me of racism and said I invented the performance problem because I’m trying to get rid of her. I have good documentation, my boss has my back, and HR is now involved. This is my first management role and I’ve been in it less than a year, and this part of the job sucks.

    In other news, one of my employees needs surgery in a few weeks, and another one is transferring to a different job (that he isn’t qualified for, and I told the hiring manager he wasn’t qualified when he applied, and she hired him anyway and is now having second thoughts…apparently he was less than honest in his interview and she thought I was lying about his skills because I didn’t want to lose him.) Things are going to be dicey around here for a few weeks.

    1. Anoncersize*

      As someone who just returned from surgery, please be cognizant of what you say when the staffer returns. I have had a lot of people complain about how hard their work has been with me gone on my first few days back. It’s very upsetting to me not to mention since I really pushed myself to return before Drs. orders underappreciated as well.

      1. Beatrice*

        I would, with anyone else. She’s a little bit of an odd duck – she worries constantly that she’ll lose her job and that things will go so well while she’s gone that we’ll decide we don’t need her, which is silly, but I’ve come to realize nothing I can say will make her actually stop worrying. So I have a solid coverage plan, and she’s done an excellent job of helping with that, and I tell her not to worry, that we’ll take care of things while she’s gone, and it won’t go as smoothly as it does while she’s here, but we’ll figure it out. Which is all true. She seems to feel better when I acknowledge that it’ll be tough with her gone.

    2. Anonforthis*

      Yikes. I have to tell you that this is not uncommon at all when you have to have a tough performance conversation with someone. It sounds as though you have your ducks in a row, so try not to stress out too much about it. In my experience, when you are dealing with an underperforming employee who is resistant to your feedback, you (or HR) can directly ask the employee why they think discrimination (of any kind) is involved, and really push. A lot of times, the best they can come up with is “Well, I’m [protected class] and you just don’t like me because of that.” That’s not to say that discrimination doesn’t happen! Of course it does. But it doesn’t sound like that’s the case here.

    3. Anonymeece*

      Ouch. I had a similar problem with an employee. I actually had documentation that they left early (non-exempt employee), didn’t file an absence request, didn’t let me know, and actually lied to me about it, and I was still accused of racism.

      I’ve also been accused of ageism – another bs claim that I had documentation to prove I wasn’t – and it’s never, ever fun.

      But remember that as long as you have documentation and are doing things by the book, then you’re covered.

    4. Wish I could...*

      Ooof, 3rd year manager here, and I have been there. Sometimes I wonder if someone behind the scenes coordinates the crazy stuff so it all happens in the same week. “Joe has a funeral on Monday, Jill has surgery on Tuesday, Jane will be take one step further down the progressive discipline rabbit hole on Wednesday, Jack will quit on Thursday, and boss will assign you a bonkers project on Friday. Let’s toss in some IT issues in the mix just for flavor.”

      It doesn’t always get easier, but you do get better at handling it.

  122. Anoncersize*

    I just got back from surgery and a manager in the department, Powder Keg, called me into a meeting where she proceeded to blame everything that want wrong on me being out for emergency surgery as well as the vendor. I calmly explained how everything I did was approved and pointed out that several times her department did not do a great job communicating errors with the vendor.

    She stormed out of the room crying which I found out from her boss, Dynamo who was thankfully on the call.

    That night at 2am PK sent me a 10 page! email and cc’d my manager saying lots of horrid stuff. Things like, you embarresed me in front of my leader, you were wrong and misjudged my team, how dare you think me team is stupid they are smart and not incompetent etc. In short PK threw all her emotions at me as well as put a lot of ire and sentiments on me that I don’t feel.

    I am justifiably upset. I forwarded the email to Dynamo and she told me on the phone I handled the meeting well.

    My boss also has my back but – frankly I have lost all trust and respect for PK. I have no idea how I can work with her in the future. My boss is saying she will help me, but in my mind PK is the one with the most work to do. She burnt the bridge. I suspect she has complained to others in her department about her take on what I said as well.

    Has anyone ever had to work with someone after they tossed a grenade in your working relationship? What went well and what didn’t?

    I’ve been clear that i will be professional but resevered around PK will do work stuff but not speak to her otherwise. I know my boss is wanting me to have that friendly working relationship with PK again but I feel that will take months if not years and that is if PK apologizes and commits to repairing the relationship. I get the sense, PK and others expect me to help with the carpentry but I don’t feel inclined or at all responsible for this.

    1. AdAgencyChick*

      It doesn’t particularly matter how PK feels if your boss (and anyone else responsible for getting you promoted/getting you a raise/etc.) has your back. I think you can go ahead and be cordial but not warm, and if she wants to be butt-hurt, she can go ahead and be butt-hurt.

    2. LCL*

      You don’t have to like her to work with her. Just be professional and polite. Frankly it’s a relief when the volatile person finally cracks and displays their dysfunction to everybody.

    3. only acting normal*

      More than one person has burned their professional relationship with me to the ground (including in writing, though not a 10 page email rant!!)
      Because I am the model of professionalism (ahem), and I am a good actor , most of these a-holes don’t even know it was burned! Obviously I can’t trust them at all any more, and I *don’t* forgive or forget, I just… let go.
      Only one would I actively refuse to work with – at all, never ever ever – because he drove me to a nervous breakdown. Luckily it’s never come up.

      Professionally cordial is all you owe. Whatever her reasons for behaving this way (which could be her own nervous breakdown, in which case have empathy) it’s her work to do to mend things.

      1. Anoncersize*

        Thanks this was helpful!

        In your examples – did they start to treat you with kid gloves?

        PK has started reaching out to me about perfectly normal business questions to ask if she has hurt my feelings….

        It’s really irritating – any tips on shutting it down?

        1. Wishing You Well*

          Tell PK “Let’s focus on the work.” and/or “Stop asking me about feelings. It’s irrelevant to the work.”
          Don’t give her a window into your emotions. If you have to tell her to stop asking about feelings more than once, your boss should know about this. Be unfailingly professional.
          Good luck on this.

        2. only acting normal*

          One of them did, they’d creep up to me like they were approaching a wild animal of some sort (emphasis on the *crrreeeeepy*). But beyond the first apology conversation, where I said “ok, don’t do it again, let’s move on”, I just ignored it.
          More annoyingly they also tried making a joke out of it: I responded with stone-face, until eventually I snapped at them in front of other colleagues, not ideal, but it did shut that shit down.
          Eventually the kid gloves tailed off mostly, but I agree it was annoying.

          For direct “have I hurt your feelings” questions, hmm. If they come attached to another business question, just answer the business question and ignore the feelings question. If they’re stand-alone questions what Wishing You Well suggests sounds good.

        3. Marge Simpson’s wig maker*

          People who ask if they’ve hurt your feelings are trying to restore themselves to a one-up position. They are basically trying to get you to reassure them, to get you to console their hurt feelings. What they should really be doing is apologizing to you and moving on -but this would leave you in the one-up position and they’d have to move forward with the knowledge that they have to do better. By asking “are you still mad?” They are hoping that you will accept their misdeeds as normal “0h that’s just how person is” and that you will move forward being careful not to hurt their sensitive feelings.
          Wishing you well suggestion is a good one. You’ve got to shut this down, and dont let

  123. blackcat*

    Part of my teaching responsibilities this semester involve overseeing the undergraduate graders. Note that X is a pretty common misconception, but one that is specifically addressed in the 101-level course I’m supervising the grading for.

    Grader: Your approach to this problem was wrong. This student deserves full credit.
    Me: Can you explain what you mean?
    Grader: X is true.
    Me: Why do you think that?
    Grader: Well, it just is.
    Me: No it isn’t. If you can’t find a reason for something to be true, that should put up a flag for you that maybe something is a miss.
    Grader: You’re wrong. You should listen to me because I’ve taken a lot of classes in Subject.
    Me: *Blink* You know I have a PhD, right? In Subject, right?
    Grader: What? I thought you are just teaching staff.
    Me: *Blink. Blink. Points to “Dr.” on my door.* What do you mean?
    Grader: Nothing. Still, I’m right about X.
    Me: *Offers detailed explanation as to why X is false*
    Grader: I’m sure there’s some issue with that.
    Me: I encourage you to google X or read about it in the textbook. And then think carefully about why you didn’t listen to me. Lets talk on Monday.

    So… what do I say on Monday? Note that this is STEM, I’m female, and Grader is male. I am pretty certain that this is a gender issue, since none of his previous supervisors (all male) recount any problems at all like this. I am not new to male undergrads questioning my expertise, but I am new to it being THIS bad and in a managing context rather than a teaching one.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      Can you just fire Grader? Sounds like a terrible mixture of mansplaining, ignorance, and insubordination.

      1. blackcat*

        No, I cannot fire work-study students (I know! This is no good! But University says so.). He is also, in general, a very good grader, doing work promptly and writing helpful comments. Being down a grader would also place a significant strain on the 2 other graders in this class. Right now, they are all three at ~8hr/week, and switching the other two to 12hrs/week might be too much.

        1. formerhighered*

          If he’s work-study under Title IV financial aid, then I would suggest you talk to the work-study coordinator and explain the mansplaining, ignorance, and insubordination. Even if you can’t fire him (which…you might have more room than you think given his behavior) then they have a heads-up.

          (Former higher ed administrator. I saw work-study students get in trouble with the financial aid office after work-study supervisors complained about much less egregious behavior.)

          1. blackcat*

            Thank you for this perspective. He will no longer be offered work study from our department in the future (dept admin confirms we can do this), but I hadn’t thought that the financial aid office could help with the Talking To.

            1. formerhighered*

              Quite welcome. As the department supervising the work-study students, you all do have a voice in the matter. Especially since it sounds as though he’ll complain that your department isn’t rehiring him. And he was completely out of line.

              I suspect there will be a conversation in the financial aid office along the lines of “Dr. Blackcat’s department has said because of your behavior toward Dr Blackcat [specifically described], they will no longer offer you work-study in the future. We now have to attempt to find you another job. If you pull what you did on Dr. Blackcat, it will be much more difficult to place you if you continue to behave this way.”

              When I saw those conversations happen, no one liked having to do it. But in the end it was in the student’s best interest to learn that doing X egregious behavior has Y real-world consequences.

        2. OtterB*

          I would make the points that:
          a. You value his work and thinks he’s usually an excellent grader
          b. You are willing to listen if he thinks you have something wrong
          c. BUT, in the absence of clear evidence to the contrary, you expect him to respect the fact that you are the course instructor and you know the material
          and, I think, if you can do it without sounding defensive and you think he might be self-reflective, a brief sexism 101 – that you aren’t saying he did it intentionally, but that there is a pattern of women in [your field] having their expertise questioned by men when another man wouldn’t and that it’s something for him to beware of doing.

            1. OtterB*

              You may be right. My thought was that an undergraduate TA is still an undergraduate and part of the supervisory role is teaching them things. Treating it as a learning opportunity may or may not get the improvement one would want, but treating it as a demonstration that he is an irredeemable jerk probably won’t either. If this was a repeating problem I’d say differently but OP mentioned just the one time.

              I do think other poster’s comments about potential biases in grading is spot-on and well worth following up on.

    4. Rusty Shackelford*

      Since you can’t fire him…

      “Last week, when I, Dr. Blackcat, your supervisor, told you the correct answer to a problem, you disputed it. You didn’t question, or ask for clarification, you flat-out told me I was wrong. Now, there is a polite and respectful way to say I honestly believed X was true, and I’d appreciate it if you could explain further, and that was not it. I don’t want to know why you did it. I just need to know it’s not going to happen again.”

      2. blackcat*

        Thank you! I also want to find a way to add that, indeed, I can be wrong! Or we could be talking past each other. That’s part of why my first two moves were to ask him clarifying questions. Like if he had said my approach was wrong but in reality I had made a math error, I could have had a conversation about how math error =/= wrong approach, but math errors happen to the best of us. Or typos. Or any number of minor errors.

        Just recently, I had a student who basically said, “I understand your solution fully, but I am puzzled by what happens in the energy in this situation.” As it turns out, I (along with three ! other instructors) were wrong! And the problem was much more complicated! And it was a quite fun and pleasant discussion with this student that I roped a couple of colleagues into. It took us all a fair bit of work to see where my solution had gone wrong. Every scientist loves a good puzzle, and it is always great fun when a student brings them to us.

        1. only acting normal*

          You don’t need to add that you can be wrong here!
          You’re not telling him not to question you, you telling him to bring questions to you in an appropriate manner, and bloody well listen to your answers.

          2. Anonymeece*

            Yup!

            Also, maybe check that impulse? It’s something that I found I tended to do, and I think it’s part of socialization when you’re a woman to think, “Well, I could be wrong, so I don’t want to give the impression I’m superhuman”, but with someone who has already shown that he doesn’t respect your expertise, it’s a bad move. It sucks, because we should all be able to admit we make mistakes, but it wouldn’t go over well with this employee.

    5. Thing1*

      I saw some similar situtions this year–always with young female faculty and male undergrad TAs. The advice from more experienced faculty was to flat-out crush him. More specifically, they suggested:

      Make it very, very clear that not only is he wrong, but that questioning/arguing/doubting you like that is unprofessional and unacceptable. He knows less than you do. Tell him that.

      If there’s a group situation, don’t argue with him there–tell him you can talk about it later, but don’t let him derail another discussion (I realize this hasn’t happened yet, but in case it does).

      Let got of making it a teachable moment. Yes, it would be best if he recognized his own biases and learned something. But if that isn’t going to happen, then it’s ok if you just intimidate him into doing his job and not arguing with you.

      Similarly, it would be best if he understood why he was wrong about X. But if he won’t listen to you or learn anything, then just tell him that he has to grade the way you tell him to, no matter what he incorrectly believes to the contrary.

      If you have a supportive chair or similar, maybe touch base with them about potential methods of escalation (complaining to the work-study office or whatever) if he doesn’t improve his attitude.

      You might check his grading for biases, if he can see the names of the students. In at least one case that I saw this year, the argumentative TA was reliably giving the women in the class much lower grades than the men, for the same work. Yours might be fine, but it’s worth taking a look. If he is being biased, that obviously needs to be escalated right away.

      Basically, the advice boiled down to not trying to be a bit softer and give him a chance to learn before getting harsher. Just crush him right away, and then hopefully you won’t have to deal with the attitude again. This sort of thing is absolutely infuriating.

      1. blackcat*

        “You might check his grading for biases, if he can see the names of the students. In at least one case that I saw this year, the argumentative TA was reliably giving the women in the class much lower grades than the men, for the same work. Yours might be fine, but it’s worth taking a look. If he is being biased, that obviously needs to be escalated right away.”

        Oh, yeah, he can. I will download the gradebook and look for gender-based differences in grades ASAP. Fortunately all our homework is turned in digitally, so it is easy for me to look over the grading (and see what grader did what).

        And I do tend to do a bit of crushing obnoxious students. If a male student is disrespectful to me in class, I do often say something like, “What a disrespectful thing to say.” Then move on, not giving the student time to respond. This squashes things super quickly in groups. I believe in the power of peer pressure for classroom management.

          1. valentine*

            This guy could do with a bit of crushing. Don’t tolerate argument or debate and don’t give him a free tutoring session. Tell him to mark things the way you want and to Google on his own time.

      2. Camellia*

        Wow, good catch on the potential grading bias! If discovered, would that be more serious ammunition to getting him ousted or black-balled?

  124. Peripatetic*

    This organisation has offices in the same building where one of our partner organisations works:

    The shared toilets and kitchen on that floor are surprisingly clean, considering.

  125. Scribbles*

    Just venting.

    A recruiter called me twice yesterday to talk to me about a job I applied to in early December. I don’t answer phone calls from numbers I don’t recognize when I’m not expecting someone to contact me, so of course I ignored it and they ended up e-mailing me to let me know they called twice. Just blows my mind that employers not only expect candidates to drop everything to take a random phone call from them, but they also expect people to be able to talk about jobs they applied to months ago. I couldn’t remember anything about the job and had to look up the job description I’d saved on my computer.

    1. Camellia*

      Relates back to Evil HR Lady’s post about the entitlement felt by employers and how they are now shocked that employees and potential employees are now starting to treat them the same way.

      1. Scribbles*

        I think I found the article you’re referring to (it’s “Job Candidates, Sick of Recruiters Going Dark, Have Started Ghosting as Well” if anyone else wants to read it).

        That’s funny that employers are getting upset about it. I’ve ghosted a bunch of employers I applied to in the past year and was just assuming they’d expect it from me since I’ve come to expect it from them.

    2. Drax*

      Or my favorite, when they refuse to leave a message but call a million times during standard work hours.

  126. Sam Sepiol*

    Oh my god this week was exhausting. It was supposed to be quieter! I was supposed to be on leave today! Instead after putting the child to bed last night I worked until after 10 then only left 40 minutes early instead of having the day off. I’m off 3 days and traveling two days (non-consecutive) next week. My boss just got a temporary promotion and for an unspecified period of time my co worker will be acting as my boss, which is not a problem but was quite a surprise; it does give me a good opportunity to have more of a hand in some of the ongoing projects which is a great opportunity. Albeit slightly intimidating.

    On the bright side while boss was in leave and before the handover something went wrong and I got to write the situation report with risks and mitigations and all sorts. (Is it weird that I say “I got to” like it was fun?! Don’t answer that haha)

    I think Important People were impressed with my handling of it and clarity which was nice!

    But oh my god I need a break.

    Just needed to get it off my chest.

  127. AvonLady Barksdale*

    I need some advice for my partner, please! He is about to complete a PhD in a STEM field where people go into industry, academia, or government. Academia is his first choice, but his academic interviews have kind of fizzled out. He made it to the third round with an industry job and they– like most employers– are taking some time to make their decision, so while they’re keeping him updated, he won’t know anything concrete until next week. For a while we thought this was his only option, so we were cautiously optimistic yet a little unsettled.

    In the past week or so, he’s had interviews with two government agencies. These interviews should have taken place weeks ago, but the shutdown stalled everything, as we know. One of the agencies has basically my partner’s ideal position; it would offer fantastic opportunities for research and future prospects in government or academia. His interviewer told him flat out that he would be recommended for the next step. However, because of the shutdown and how things are moving, the next step likely won’t happen until March.

    So here’s the dilemma: the industry job is supposed to make a decision next week. They might make an excellent offer, but my partner thinks he’s better suited for the government job (and I wholeheartedly agree). If the government job doesn’t pan out, then he would rather have the industry job than nothing. If he gets the industry offer, I advised him to ask for some time and talk to the government agency director about moving up the timeline. If that can’t happen, I advised him to come back to the industry job with some things he’d like to negotiate, like a conference budget and research support, and possibly more money. Basically, I think he should stall the industry job as much as he can until he gets a decision from the government agency. Is this decent advice? Am I steering him in a completely wrong direction? It’s tough because the academic market is so foreign to me.

    One thing I told him absolutely not to do is accept the industry offer and then renege if the agency makes an offer, which is something he floated by me. If this were regular corporate stuff, that wouldn’t feel super horrible to me (I wouldn’t advise it, but stuff happens), but his field is small and full of people who talk, and I don’t want him to start off his career on that foot.

    Sigh. I haaaaate the academic job market so, so much. Some of his colleagues already have offers, and it would just be so great to have something settled.

    1. Justin*

      Stall if you can, but only a little. He could get a gov’t job in a couple years if he needed to, and with more experience, if the timing just didn’t work out.

      1. Justin*

        And maybe we won’t be in a world where the gov’t shuts down for “reasons” by then and it won’t be as much of a thing. It might also just be a more stable choice by that point, regardles of anyone’s political feelings.

        1. AvonLady Barksdale*

          Luckily, this is one of the more stable agencies; it will always be needed/used. I feel really bad for everyone hiring for these positions in government right now, because their entire system got screwed. While they were waiting for the shutdown to end, most of their candidates got offers from other places. The director my partner spoke to was pretty happy to catch him while he’s still available, from what I understand.

          Fun story: one of his colleagues accepted an offer (kind of a crappy one, to be honest, but tenure track) and then was all, “Wait, what about that government job I wanted????” If they ever call, too bad for both sides!

      2. UK Civil Servant*

        Don’t know if the US is similar, but in the UK industry experience is extremely valued in gov STEM posts, so would be a great bargaining chip / CV entry for reapplying to gov in a couple of years.

    2. Nesprin*

      CALL THE GOVERNMENT PEOPLE!!! We know that competing offers exist, and we will hurry things up if we want someone. Seriously, I’ve seen it happen 3 times in three months- if you call the supervisor and reiterate your interest, they can move up interviews, wrangle bureaucracy and make things happen fast.

  128. Rulesfor*

    I don’t imagine there’s anything I can do about this, but I have a question about retro pay. Several months ago I received got a professional licences that bumped me into a different job classification and pay category. My boss was only just able to successfully push this change in my status through with our agency. Now, they’re all saying there’s nothing they can do about making sure I receive retroactive pay for those several months when I held the licence without it being changed in their system. I know that’s probably that, and my boss has advocated with the people above her for it with no luck, but I’m just so frustrated.

    1. valentine*

      Keep pushing. Don’t let them benefit from dragging their feet. It’s a fact that you held the new status from x date, so, unless the agency manual says they can screw you over like this, they need to pay up. It’s not as though you could do your work at the previous level whilst waiting for people to respond to your boss.

  129. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

    How much say should my employer have over where I live?

    I’m six months into a new role and it’s going very well. This role (fundraising) involves a lot of travel to meet with donors in many states, as well as day trips to meet with donors in my state. All told, someone in my role is expected to spend around 8 days fully or partially away from the office out of a 20 day work month. That said, it’s discouraged to work from home unless the office is closed for a weather event (happens maybe once or twice a year [including earlier this week], and even then my boss will still come into the office because he lives five minutes away).

    My husband and I are in the process of purchasing our first home, and have decided to look for property with significant acreage in order to fulfill our dream of starting a small hobby farm and raising our own food. The intention is that I will continue in my career, while my husband will eventually transition into part- or full-time at home. Obviously, this search is taking us farther out into the country than is typical for my colleagues. We were under contract to buy a house about 40 miles from my work, which would be around a 58-63 minute commute in rush hour. Unfortunately that just fell apart yesterday. (Side note: buying a home is emotionally exhausting!)

    I mentioned it to my boss yesterday, who gave his condolences but then said “Maybe you can find a house closer to work. I was thinking about your commute when we had that snow and was thinking how you wouldn’t want to drive in that!”

    Of course, now his comment is sticking in my brain. The fact is that my husband and I are still looking to buy in that same general area, and are going to see a couple homes this week that are actually 10 miles and 5 minutes farther than the first home. We’ve thought long and hard about taking on this commute and are ready for it, especially because we’ve had longer commutes (though shorter distances) when we lived in the city and had to face rush hour traffic. I’d rather drive five times as far over country roads than be stuck in city traffic for the same amount of time!

    Do I need to be worried about my boss’s reaction when I tell him we’ve put in an offer for another home 60+ minutes away? Am I somehow responsible for living in an area deemed acceptable by my boss? For reference, we live in a mid-sized city in the northwest; every house within a “short” commute of my work is well out of our price range, and to live in a dangerous neighborhood on the outskirts of town would only save about 15 minutes on the commute because of traffic.

    1. Beehoppy*

      Ten years and two jobs ago I was in a similar situation. I wanted to buy a house in the country for a lot of reasons, a big one being it was the only way I could afford something more than a tiny condo. My then Boss made a lot of noise about how I wouldn’t be able to handle the commute and it would somehow be a huge inconvenience for her. I ignored it, the commute was doable and it was all fine. Your Boss is free to make comments but just ignore them. Some people just have a hard time understanding when others make different choices.

      1. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

        Thanks for sharing your story! I think I just need to be prepared to shrug and respond neutrally when people tell me that commute is crazy, and then make an extra concerted effort not to be late/out of the office more than usual, at least for the first few months after the move.

    2. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

      Edited to add: I included the information about my work schedule to indicate that while I won’t be asking to work from home all the time (and that really isn’t an option), almost 50% of the time I won’t be making the usual commute anyway. I don’t know if it matters, but thought it’d include it.

      1. valentine*

        Stop updating him. (Unless you’re willing to tell him it’s just FYI and you’re just making small talk, not asking his opinion.) Go need-to-know.

        Maybe you can get creative about your hours and improve the commute. Try dress-rehearsing it as well, because it’s wild. I understand, though, if you’re saying the farm life and lovely roads outweigh the length of the commute.

    3. AdAgencyChick*

      You don’t need to make your housing decisions based on your boss’s opinions, but you probably do need to reassure him that your life change won’t result in a change for HIM — that is, that you won’t balk at travel that you used to be fine with, that you won’t be coming in late or leaving early, etc.

      This is always on my mind when I’m hiring and I see a resume from someone living an hour or more away, because I’ve been burned in the past having to cover for someone who skipped out of the office at 4:45 every day to make his Amtrak to Philadelphia. It would be on my mind if I were your boss. My guess is when he said “you wouldn’t want to drive in that snow!” it wasn’t concern for your well-being; it was him nervously expressing the hope that he won’t have to pick up the slack if your commute gets in the way of being at work when he needs you to be. (As your manager, he should be able to say that directly to you instead of hinting at it, but not everybody’s good at managing!)

      I think that if you tell him that your plans are to continue working just as you have been, regardless of commute time, perhaps with some specific details of how you plan to accomplish that, he won’t comment on you living closer (and he won’t have any reason to).

      1. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

        Thanks, I think you’re right. Fortunately this isn’t a “butts in seats” office, but I agree he was absolutely more concerned about me not showing up than my safety. The nature of our work is very independent so no one has to cover for anyone who’s out, but obviously a good manager wants their team to be functional.

        I think at this point it’s premature to comment on specific actions I’ll take to ensure I’m at work on time; I’ll just make sure I’m keeping up my regular hours after the move!

    4. Roses Angel*

      I currently live over an hour away from work. My boss made a comment but I told her that I liked the area. I then found out a coworker lives not that far away. She stopped making comments after that. As long as you aren’t late to work I dont see how your boss could have a problem. I make it a point to be at work 30 minutes early a) to have extra time in case of issues and b) to show that I can get to work with no issues.

      1. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

        Thanks for sharing your story! I’m hoping any comments will die down after the first few weeks. My office has a very loose start time, with people coming in between 8 and 9. Usually I make it in by 8:15, so my plan after the move is to leave early enough to get here by 8. (Ironically it’s my coworker who lives minutes away from work that isn’t ever here until at least 8:45!)

      1. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

        That’s what I kept thinking! We live in a midsize town so, sure, if you live and work in the same area commutes are usually like 15-30 minutes. But if you move to the more affordable neighborhoods or surrounding towns, you’re instantly looking at 30-45 minutes, minimum. And we live close to a major metropolitan area for which commutes of 90+ minutes are standard! I think my boss is so used to living 5 minutes from work he forgets that isn’t the norm.

        1. LDN Layabout*

          I think if you’re extra careful the first few months that should set his mind at ease? I know he’s raised the winter weather, how bad is it in your area? I know the one thing regarding a property with acreage is access…so being prepared for some nasty mornings if you get a lot of snow/ice.

          1. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

            Oh it’s super mild here. I live in the NW which has just experienced a historic winter storm, so that’s why it’s top of mind. We usually have MAYBE 1 “snow day” a year, which for us is anything over half an inch. When we do get a storm it shuts the region down for days because we literally don’t have snowplows, winter tires, etc. So while I might be more affected by such a winter storm, honestly it puts everyone in the same boat if people can’t get out of their neighborhoods.

            1. LDN Layabout*

              In that case, you’re probably good. I can see you’re planning on timing your commute and that helps a lot (I work 8-4 to avoid sardine time on the underground), fingers crossed you find somewhere!

    6. KayEss*

      Unless your boss has a history of being weird and unreasonable, I’d just interpret that comment as a friendly “I have different priorities than you do for my home and don’t necessarily understand yours, but I hope you find something you like with minimal inconvenience attached, especially in the wake of this recent disappointment!”

      1. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

        I think you’re right. I’m still feeling him out and have worked for bosses in the past that WERE weird and unreasonable and would passive-aggressively make comments like this that they would then hold against me, so I’m trying to re-calibrate now that I’m in a more healthy workplace.

      2. LilySparrow*

        Yeah, unless there was something in his tone that’s not coming across in his words, this just seems like he was genuinely thinking about your safety driving in snow. Which seems like kind concern, not controlling.

        But tone does a lot, so it could have sounded more bossy than it reads.

    7. Autumnheart*

      Consider, also, that there’s a good chance that you’ll change jobs while you live in this property, and therefore your current commute won’t be the same for any future jobs.

      Of course you’re not responsible for getting approval from your boss for *where you live*. Is he paying the mortgage? No. Besides, chances are that this won’t be the last job you have, and your commute from your new home may be more convenient. Regardless, your life choices are none of your boss’s business. He isn’t entitled to know how your house search is going or where you ultimately wind up, and I would recommend not telling him.

      2. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

        I mean, I was never going to ask permission. This is a friendly office and it would be weirdly hostile for me to refuse to talk about my house search or where I live. I do think, though, that I’ll be nice and vague and say it’s “near [other town that is still far, though not as far as it actually will be]”

  130. Jessen*

    Thanks to everyone who provided me advice on looking into programming a few weeks ago! Now my question is – how do you quell that “oh heavens I don’t know what I’m doing I’m going to screw everything up and fail and end up back in retail” feeling? I’m in a bit of an interesting position since I don’t feel like I could necessarily get something equivalent to my current job if I wanted to, and pretty much all my goals for a job are…not actually field related at all. It’s more of a “I 100% need to make sure I have very good benefits and I want to live somewhere where I can pretend my family doesn’t exist” than anything else, and it’s feeling super high stakes because of that. Especially because I’m also catching up on medical stuff I couldn’t afford previously and it’s underscoring how absolutely critical maintaining good benefits is for me.

    1. TechWorker*

      In a non horrible way I’ve met a whole bunch of programmers who don’t really know what they’re doing, and I’ve been doing it for 4 years and still find myself googling fairly basic stuff at times. You don’t have to be perfect to succeed in something.

    2. Troutwaxer*

      The big issue is figuring out how to make sure your program doesn’t do the wrong thing (while doing the right thing.) So sanitize input, make sure that human errors, such as typos are as close to impossible as you can make them. (For example, don’t allow a typo to put a letter into a field reserved exclusively for numbers.) Think about how things can go wrong. Organize your variable names so you know what they mean. (“TotalNonTaxablePurchases” is much better than “X.”) Make sure your program offers easy-to-access help using things like tooltips. Make sure you don’t allow more digits to be input than you need. Etc.

      If you’re devoting most of your design and testing time to getting this right, you’ll always have work.

  131. Jonah*

    I’m interviewing a candidate for a paid intern position this afternoon who will be my direct report. I’ve managed interns before but never participated in the hiring process. My boss has chosen not to participate in this process rather suddenly. Everybody is out of the office today except for myself and two people from other departments (who have also never hired before).

    I have a very strong candidate, and I’m almost positive I’m going to hire him, based on his resume and writing sample. However, I have no idea what to ask other than the boilerplate “tell me about yourself” icebreaker. The main tasks associated with the role are writing blogs and creating social media content, and I think he could be a great fit for us.

    Any suggestions? I want to keep this quick and casual, but also not hire somebody without asking a single question.

    1. FFHP*

      What is your favorite social media platform, and why?
      Tell me about a recent writing project you completed. How did you complete the research? What did you find difficult about the writing process? What was the audience’s response?
      What types of social media content are you most comfortable creating? Posts with graphic art, like Canva? Videos? InstaStories?
      How would you work to increase our followers on social media?

      1. Anonysand*

        As a social media manager, these are really good questions to ask. I would add in a question about demographics on different platforms, i.e. How would you create or tailor content for different audiences on Facebook vs a blog?

        Also, is he going to be in charge of handling communications from the official accounts? If so, you should ask him about he would (or has in the past) approach criticism online, negative reviews, rude comments, etc.

  132. JG Wave*

    I posted a few weeks ago about how I was worried the hiring timeline (I only had about six weeks to either interview and accept an offer, or move out of my current city/state when my lease was up and live with my parents), and I am SO thankful people told me not to give up hope, because I kept sending out applications and I GOT OFFERED A JOB YESTERDAY! And said yes right away!

    It’s a seasonal position, but the season is longer + the pay a bit higher than comparable positions at other organizations, and the organization is SO cool. It’s one of a huge number of museums in my city, and imo it is focused on the most interesting subject and is doing the most work on integrating history with current events and public outreach. I actually learned about this museum in grad school, and now after nine months of post-grad unemployment I’ll be working there! I actually got rejected for another job just a few hours later, but the hiring manager was very kind and offered to put me in touch with the manager for a different branch of her organization, which is great because it would be nice to supplement the part-time/seasonal nature of my current job. So all in all, things are definitely looking up. :)

  133. Forkeater*

    Are elevator speeches really a thing? This morning I found myself in the elevator with our CEO (not really the title, wrong industry, but same deal) and spent the time desperately wondering what or if I should say anything. CEO has a very warm approachable demeanor but we’ve never met in my three years here, still it seemed like a missed opportunity somehow. What should or could I have done differently?

    1. j'adore discuter*

      You’ve never met them before – introduce yourself. “Hello. You’re Mr. Spoon right? We haven’t had the opportunity to introduce ourselves. I’m Frank/k; I work in the Teapot Design department.” He’ll say, “Good to meet you.” amd/or or ‘Ok, How do you like it?” And you say, “We’re working on a huge project. It’s great.” or “We’re gearing up for a big season/event. It’ll be great.” Be positive and when you see them again – you can advance the conversation.

      I think a ‘How are you today? Any plans for the weekend? Upcoming vacations?” means you’re personable and care about them, not their role in the business. But that’s me. I’ve spent a lot of time around Generals and CEO’s and they typically preferred non-business chat when outside the office.

    2. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      The last time I found myself in an elevator with a C-suite person, I was violating the dress code and singing Queen. So it could definitely have been worse. :)

      1. Forkeater*

        Well I am wearing jeans and rain boots because Friday, but pretty much anything goes here so that didn’t embarrass me. :)

    3. LPUK*

      I think elevator speeches are about being able to give a short,sharp response when asked a question such as ‘ what do you do?’ or ‘ what are you working on?’ , that you could complete within the time you are on an elevator, NOT about taking advantage of time in an elevator to buttonhole senior people. If you say anything, much better for it to be a little friendly small talk which the CEO can either follow- up on or just leave there

    4. FFHP*

      I think it would have been a good time to introduce yourself, say what you like about the company/thankful to work there/etc. Or, if there is a new product/project your department is working on, it would have been a good time to tell the CEO how excited you are about that, reasons for excitement, etc.

  134. Anon for this one*

    Have you ever been given negative feedback in your annual review where it was clear who the feedback was from? My boss didn’t name names, but she cited a specific example that I knew must have come from one particular coworker.

    I disputed the feedback with my boss, and we ended up at my boss saying “in principle you’re right, but you should have expressed yourself differently in the moment” (and my boss did not offer to revise my review in any way).

    So now I feel awkward around the person who gave the feedback. I’d like to try and change her mind about me, but I’m not sure how to do that without making it clear that I know what she said about me in her supposedly confidential peer review.

    Any advice/commiseration?

    3. CastIrony*

      “in principle you’re right, but you should have expressed yourself differently in the moment”

      I don’t think it’d hurt to ask your boss how you should express yourself in that type of situation and actively trying to change that. Maybe he thinks that you were too loud, or you used an accusatory tone. Who knows?

      Other than that, I have a superior who’s in the same boat, and the only thing they can do is accept that that person isn’t going to change, and that they will not win that battle because that’s how things go at the job.

    4. Autumnheart*

      If it’s a behavior you know you need to work on, make a New February Resolution to work on it extra hard. You have a pretty good shot at changing your colleague’s mind if you model improved behavior.

      Or, maybe it’s just a personality conflict and nothing will change that. As long as you’re comporting yourself with integrity, don’t worry about it. I’m sure there are people at your office with whom you’re not thrilled, but you probably still work with them well enough if both of you are reasonable people, right? Consider this one of those situations.

    5. That Girl From Quinn's House*

      “in principle you’re right, but you should have expressed yourself differently in the moment”

      Note to yourself that men seldom receive such feedback and let it go.

  135. I work in HR -- Can I befriend a coworker?*

    We’ve had a new employee start, and I really like her. We have a similar sense of humor, and she’s just fun to talk to. (Because commenters may wonder — we’re both female, and I’m only talking about friendship, not any romantic interest.) If she was someone I met outside of work, I would definitely ask if she wanted to grab a coffee or something, and see if we wanted to start building a friendship. However, I’m in HR, and I’m not sure about whether that is ok or not. I’m not involved in deciding on raises or disciplinary actions. I do already follow the excellent advice of not friending any coworkers on any form of social media. We don’t work in the same part of the building, and we have different lunch hours.

    Thoughts from the commentariat?

    1. AdAgencyChick*

      I think even if you don’t directly handle raises or discipline, perception is still powerful enough that I wouldn’t risk it.

    2. AMA Long-time Lurker*

      Yea, the optics on this would not be ideal, regardless of your intentions. The prospect of someone looking IN and thinking that this employee gets special treatment from this is enough of a risk to make this a no-go.

    3. WellRed*

      HR can’t be friends be coworkers. At best, it might look bad to other employees who fear she may have some sort of inside track on company info. At worst, she will think she has some sort of inside track.

      1. BRR*

        Yup. Unfortunately HR can’t be friends with coworkers. If it wasn’t Friday afternoon and I wasn’t exhausted I would try and find Alison’s past answer(s) on this because she explains it better than I ever could.

        1. valentine*

          You can be friendly, but not friends. You can’t confide in her or keep her confidences because you both need to uphold certain workplace policies offsite. Any awkward or disciplinary conversations with her, and others, would be made all the worse due to them using the friendship as leverage or as an excuse for their behavior. Saturday, you laugh at her joke, or make one of your own. Tuesday, she tells a colleague and her manager and you call her in for a Serious Conversation. You tell Creep to stop rubbing this woman’s shoulders and he says y’all are conspiring against him.

  136. Erin F*

    At my company we have a lot of training for managers and very clear expectations for success. But now we are starting to look at setting similar expectations for general employees.

    I’m curious what in your experience are good and appropriate expectations to have for all employees. Beyond the basics like show up on time, accurate work,etc.

  137. Sara M*

    Wasn’t there a thread about “things we all needed to learn when we were new to the work world” somewhere? I can’t find it. I guess I’m using the wrong search words. Can someone please help me find it? Thanks.

        1. fposte*

          If it was an “ask the readers,” that’s its own search tag in the margin, so you could look through those.

    2. Torrance*

      I think you’re looking for “ask the readers: misconceptions about work when you’re early in your career” & its followup “the things you don’t know about work when you’re early in your career” (no links to prevent moderation but exact titles should be easy to find).

  138. Midwest Officeman*

    Is it possible your resume successes seem too unbelievable to be taken seriously? Do employers avoid certain high performers to save money?

    I am good at my job and get lots of praise, but there are no opportunities to advance and I can’t get traction as I am overqualified for most roles in the area. How can I not be so screwed in this scenario?

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      “too unbelievable to be taken seriously” – I’m not sure this is a thing. That’s what references are for.

      In general I find that employers are usually happy to get people even better than they need – as long as they can pay them the same salary and they don’t think the person will leave as soon as they find something better (this may be the concern you need to address). When I’ve seen applicants rejected for being overqualified, it’s usually that they have advanced degrees that indicate their real passion is something other than the central tenant of our job. Like, they have a law degree and talk about their love of law, but we only need a contract controller, not a lawyer.

    2. Anon for level of detail*

      Of course it’s possible to be overqualified (but probably not because interviewers think you’ll be too expensive; they think that you don’t actually want the job they have on offer/you’ll leave quickly for greener pastures/etc.), but it doesn’t sound like that’s quite what you’re talking about.

      I used to worry about (what feels like) a similar situation. Several years ago I had a job with an overblown title and genuinely unbelievable accomplishments, which had much less to do with how awesome I was than how much the organization punched above its weight in terms of both effectiveness and PR. (By unbelievable I mean that people literally don’t believe me; for example, with a staff of 4 people we coordinated an event with 120,000+ volunteers. But also, because the founder of the org was very well-connected politically, we — as a small, regional nonprofit — regularly hosted events with very high-profile guests like the then-current Vice President, a Nobel Peace Prize winner, etc.)

      I was worried about it when I went searching for my next job (a director-level job at a larger nonprofit), but it didn’t end up being an issue. It’s all about the framing.

  139. Not a Badmin anymore*

    Very minor question.

    I am 5 months in my new job. All my coworkers have been wonderful and patient answering questions! However, there is one coworker who I think has been training me more so and we share a wall (doesn’t go all the way up to the ceiling). Sometimes I pop over to ask a question (not daily, but a 3-4 times a week?) and he has his mouth full eating something (usually chewing an apple or other fruit). Usually this is not at lunch time, it’s mid morning or mid afternoon. I feel bad for interrupting but I never know what to do? Usually I ask my quick question and take a little more time asking so he has time to chew. Should I tell him I’ll come back? I feel like by the time I get back to my office and go back he’d done chewing. This feels so silly to ask! But I don’t want to be rude.

    2. Jessen*

      I’m an all-day snacker. I know I’d prefer what you’re doing. Otherwise it would just make me feel awkward about eating at my desk in general.

    3. Autumnheart*

      You can interrupt him. But if you have an internal instant messaging system, maybe use that, or send him an email with your question instead.

      1. valentine*

        If you both prefer in-person, see if he’d like you to knock before you pop round. You knock “Shave and a haircut”; he knocks once for no, “Two bits” for yes, or x for “Give me x minutes.”

  140. Help me work well with others*

    What would you do?
    I have a big project.
    My name is on it, my budget, my words, my department. I am the ultimate buck stops here.
    I am working with an artistic designer. He does not report to me but is in charge of the design for all projects of this kind.
    When I disagree with him, he says, well, it’s not me, it’s our director who doesn’t want it that way. Talk to her.
    Twice in the last week, I have discovered that
    It is not the director.
    She agrees with me on how this project section should look. She has not said a word to him about these issues.
    I write an email ccing her stating the changes that need to be made and he then makes the changes that I want.

    Also when we disagree, he has said, well if you if you don’t want to do it my way, I’m done with this project. Don’t ask me for anything more. (which is ridiculous because it is his job.)
    I usually ignore this statement and a day later we are working just fine together but we are about a week away from launch and out came that statement yesterday afternoon and frankly I am just tired.
    I get that he is stressed. I get that we are all stressed.

    Do I suck it up for a week and know that experience shows that it will all work out in the end?

    Do I schedule a meeting to talk out our “communication issues?”

    1. fposte*

      Do you report directly to the director, and if so have you raised this question with her? Frankly, the fact that she’s okay with this cc: “solution” doesn’t bode well. Dude needs to do his job and stop throwing up fictional roadblocks, and whoever’s in charge of him should have told him so.

      So I might consult the director, saying, “I’m finding that having to spend extra time negotiating to get Fergus to do his project work is a real distraction from the project itself. Do you have any suggestions on that?” And if her suggestions are along the line of “Fergus is just like that but he’s really talented” that means your hands are severely tied here, but maybe with some encouragement she’ll be willing to tell him to pull his socks up.

      2. Help Me Work With Other*

        yup. Fposte. you nailed it “Fergus is just like that but he’s really talented” is her response. Fortunately these projects are far between. Every 4 years or so.

        1. valentine*

          Does she know he lied about her? Does he even get to disagree or is he meant to be carrying out your vision and instructions? Next time he says he’s done, see if he can switch with someone.

    2. Havarti*

      Your designer sucks. I’m sorry. Is the director his boss? If yes, she sucks too. With a week ’til launch, provided the things you need are getting done, I would probably not schedule any communication meetings at this point in your shoes. No sense giving him an excuse for a meltdown so close to the finish line.

      It’s beyond stupid the hoops you have to jump through to make things happen. But do you really think having a meeting with him, whether now or later, will actually fix anything? Especially if his supervisor isn’t involved or doesn’t care? You could try talking to the supervisor, especially if you think you’ll have to use him again soon or you can make as much of your communication with him as possible via email and cc the director as part of the process so he can’t pull the “I won’t do work for you anymore! Wah!” without at least one witness.

    3. AdAgencyChick*

      Coming at it from the creative’s perspective:

      When you ask him to do something in a certain way, are you giving him a problem to solve (“the focus of this page needs to be X, but right now Y is popping more”) or are you giving him detailed requests to change things (“I want this typeface to be blue and that to be in bold”)? If your feedback is more like the latter than the former, he’s probably upset because he thinks you’re trying to take too much control over the minutiae of how things look rather than letting him come up with a creative solution.

      I see this all the time in my work in advertising — clients who make very specific demands for how something should look or should be expressed in words, when if they just let us do our creative thing, we could solve the underlying problem in a way that’s better than they imagined.

      This is NOT to say that, if this is what’s going on in his head, your designer is right to roadblock you by lying to you and saying that someone else has vetoed what you want when she hasn’t. He should be able to ask you to let him apply his expertise. But it is a possible explanation for what’s going on in his mind.

      1. Help Me Work With Other*

        I hear what you are saying. I am admittedly not a visual person nor do I have his creative skills. I respect his talent. These are content discussion. No you can’t split this double page spread (that we agreed on two months ago) and place one of the images somewhere else because -one, it is actually one image and two- it makes no sense on that other page.
        And most of the time when we have a disagreement, unless it effects content, I say okay because (he is creative, imaginative, and talented) In fact, I usually talk my concerns out with others and let it go.

        1. Autumnheart*

          I would recommend spelling out specific business requirements. For example, if it’s one image and can’t be dissected and used elsewhere, put that in the document within the creative direction. If there are agreed-upon directions (like “double-page spread” per agreement on 12/14/18) then that should also be stated explicitly in the creative direction.

          Otherwise, I agree that “everyone thinks they have better design sense than the designer” is a real thing, and the responsibilities should be clearly defined as “business team is responsible for business requirements” and “creative is responsible for designing according to business requirements”. So if, indeed, you are saying things like “We want it to look this way” and you don’t have a clear business case for why it should look this way, then you are indeed overstepping.

          Design has a lot of industry-specific principles and subject matter expertise that is typically invisible to business partners–usability, accessibility, color and placement, things that really do make a difference in how customers interact with the project. And it’s frustrating for a business stakeholder to come in and be all “make it red and blinking” and want to make changes to the design when it’s not their wheelhouse. It is NOT the creative’s job to design exactly what you want. It’s their job to fulfill your business requirements with good design.

          If it’s the opposite case, and the designer is ignoring documented business requirements in order to preserve his design, then that is definitely an issue and it would be a good idea to loop the director into the conversation. If nothing else, the three of you should get together and go over the requirements, and have the designer explain how the design meets those requirements. Just to make sure the bases are covered. If he missed anything, it’ll be covered, and if you’re unclear on his reasoning, he should be able to satisfy you with an explanation about his decisions.

          1. Help Me Work With Others*

            I understand what you are saying but in this case it is like saying, “this content must be in alphabetical order” and our designer is insisting that Z looks much better before T. By the way, he delivered it the way he wanted it, ignoring the email spelling out how and why with my directors approval. So Monday is going to be fun.

  141. SqueakySue*

    I have a strange question: Was I TOO over-excited when I accepted a job offer?

    I was in the middle of salary negotiations (read ALL the threads on this – SO HELPFUL!!) and they came back to me with an offer that was above and beyond what I was expecting. I thought that I was going to have to keep negotiating then after the SECOND round I would land at a salary about 5k less, so I was caught off guard by this strong offer. My voice went up to a squeak as I said “Oooh OK!!!!!” and I happily accepted.

    NOW MY QUESTION: This job has a 6 month review where I could receive another increase. By sounding too excited with the HR person, will they report back to my hiring manager that I probably won’t need the 6 month increase? Did I just undercut myself and put them in a position of power by being too overeager? I searched and searched the forums, but this doesn’t seem to be something anyone brings up.

    2. CatCat*

      Congrats on the job offer! It’s awesome that you got a great offer.

      It would be really weird for HR to tell the hiring manager you won’t need the 6 month increase. I would not worry about that.

  142. MsChanandlerBong*

    People never cease to amaze me. I had to do some performance coaching with someone earlier in the week. Instead of accepting the feedback, she wrote a six-paragraph email telling me why I was wrong. I responded (professionally, of course) and explained that success in her role hinges, in part, on her ability to accept and apply critical feedback. Instead of saying, “Okay, I will work on these areas,” she tried to go around me by emailing my coworker and pleading her case. My boss found out about it and decided to let her go. She basically argued her way out of a job.

    Also got some good news this week. After 15 years of fighting with them, my college finally agreed that they screwed up my account the last time I was enrolled. Long story short, they didn’t certify my federal loan before the deadline, so the government took the money back, and then the school tried to make me pay $5K out of pocket even though the loan-certification error was their mistake. They had been holding my transcripts, preventing me from finishing my degree, but I got word this week that they have cleared it up. My transcripts have already been delivered to the school I want to attend. I’ll be going for a bachelor’s in business admin. with a focus on human resources. I’m so excited!

        1. valentine*

          Everything’s coming up roses.

          This reminds me of the Betty/Alice “Fired for managing up” letter.

  143. NYC Girl of all trades*

    I could use some tactics to deal with job-hunting procrastination/avoidance. I find myself convinced I’m not qualified to do anything (not true), reading listings, putting off applying, writing/rewriting/rewriting again materials, and generally just letting time pass. I’ll be leaving my job at the end of the month and I have not applied to anything. I’m lucky enough to have savings, but that just gives me a longer runway to procrastinate against. I’ve tried accountability partners, rewards, time chunking, Pomodoro….this isn’t the first time I’ve faced this problem, and I’m at a loss as to how to make things different.

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      I had to gamify it for myself, as the job search dragged on and I lost motivation. I had to check certain sites on certain days and had to apply to not less than one job a week, whichever one was best – it shifted the goal from “find perfect soulmate job” to “which of these is least crappy if I had to choose one.” If I met my goal, my reward was that I wasn’t going to beat myself up or think about the job search any further. YMMV.

    2. Undine*

      Gamifying is a good idea. It’s sounds like maybe you struggle with perfectionism. Some thoughts:
      * Think of the jobs you apply for as “practice” — like “I know I won’t get this, but I just need to practice sending things in.” Don’t start with a job you really want. Don’t think about this as getting a job, just think of this as applying for jobs.
      *Back up even further, and write the email and attach everything, but don’t press the button right away. That’s practice. And very similar to rewriting your materials. Then send it if/when you feel ready.
      * Instead of an “accountability partner,” you need a buddy, someone who you can celebrate with when you apply, or who you can tell, “I want to apply to this job, tell me it’s okay to apply.”
      *Remember, motivation follows action.
      * Go to an orientation at your local government job search center. I did this, and their advice was outdated and not super useful, but I saw what it was like for people who really are going to have trouble finding jobs, and they aren’t me.

      1. Sloan Kittering*

        “Don’t think about this as getting a job, just think of this as applying for jobs.” – this is so well put. That’s exactly what I had to do. And weirdly, I’ve even heard people say similar things about online dating or other tasks where input doesn’t always equal output. “Don’t think of it as trying to meet the right person, just focus on going on dates.” I think it’s easier because at least if you’re process oriented, you’re done at some point. If you’re outcome oriented but the outcome is beyond your control the result is frustration and low morale.

  144. LDN Layabout*

    Public Sector folks, who has an IT rant? Join me, scream, cry…

    I had a training session today on the data we work with and it was really useful but it was ridiculously depressing. Our IT is shoddy and has a fit at the drop of a hat and the data quality? IS BAD. We can identify it and literally point to the issues but getting it fixed is a process.

    We also have a giant essential database where you can’t do batch updates, it has to be done MANUALLY. I did genuinely laugh out loud when told this.

    At the end of the day we do good, we’re going to do more good and getting this sorted is important but I miss my neat, tidy, well maintained cloud-based SQL servers from my private sector job.

    1. Please Miss*

      Teacher here. We can’t use several educational websites and software packages because our computers are too old, or running too old software, to handle them. We aren’t allowed to update Firefox to anything more recent than 2016 – so it is terrible, slow and often can’t handle websites. We’re supposed to be transferring to using SharePoint for everything but it won’t work in our ancient Firefox installation – so they tell us to use Chrome. But none of the machines have Chrome installed, and getting it installed involves calling a help desk – in another country – and logging a support ticket. For every machine individually. In a building with over 400 computers. Then waiting a few weeks for the IT management company (who won the council contract by being the lowest bidders) to remote install the programme.

      We’re supposed to have an IT refresh sometime this session, but as yet there has been no actual information or timeline on this.

      I love my job. I hate how poorly resourced it is.

      1. LDN Layabout*

        I love my job. I hate how poorly resourced it is.

        This is it exactly. And I feel you on the council, ours has outsourced all the services and all shocked and appalled they’re not performing…

      2. TechWorker*

        I also hate places that don’t trust to you to be able to install chrome… like presumably they’re trying to stop you from downloading/installing something malicious but a) virus scanners are a thing and b) the time/cost of someone occasionally messing up their computer is probably less than the time/cost/frustration of making you go to IT for simple things you need to you know, do your job.

    2. LQ*

      I could go on a public sector rant for a thousand years and not run out of things. My laugh out loud moment was when I asked “Well how do we (I work on the business not the IT side) get notified when there is a problem with the system?” The answer was “We tell them.” I thought this was a joke, it is not. IT doesn’t do anything proactive to monitor our application and so we have to call them through our stupid help desk when our entire application serving the public goes down. I walked around in a daze for a week after that one. (I’m currently implementing an entirely new process that will let everyone be more proactive about that!)

      I’ve been told so many things were impossible. I’ve been told that we can’t. I’ve watched us not be able to do things a lot. It’s incredibly frustrating. And worse there are a lot of really good people who are trying and the work is important, but there is a distance and a lack of accountability and no understanding that IT needs to change and not wait until something has long since passed it’s End of Life and is now busted beyond reason to fix it.
      (I was also told that our biggest security concern should be that we would be deplatformed by Giant Tech Company. We are a state agency. The day Giant Tech Company decides to start deplatforming large state agencies …well I’m not really all that worried about that day because we’ve got a whole other problem on our hands. I’m way more worried about the endless list of software and hardware that we cannot seem to update!)

      1. LDN Layabout*

        The answer was “We tell them.” I thought this was a joke, it is not.

        You’ll appreciate the below:

        This week, our analysis system was down…pretty much continuously M-W. Three days of not being able to do proper work.

        Best part? The system that monitors when the system goes down is apparently PART OF the system…so when it wasn’t working we weren’t getting email notifications of it going up/down.

    3. UK Civil Servant*

      Last week I spent 2 days compressing, zipping, deleting, and shuffling around data to make space for 200GB of data I needed to analyse, because our servers have run out of space (and expensive blah blah blah). Our organisation has plans to expand into data science and “big data”. There may be trouble ahead.

      One time IT set up a training room for a *parallel processing* training with 10 year old *single core* laptops. The external trainer (from -famous software company-) was heroically diplomatic, while we all just about died of embarrassment.

      In my first post, in an analysis role, *in the 2000s*, I did not even have my own computer.

      I could go on for hours!

    4. CatMintCat*

      In the education department I work for, we aren’t allowed Firefox or Chrome. IE all the way. Not Edge – good old fashioned clunky Internet Explorer. Our pay and leave management software literally doesn’t function on anything else. The computer on my desk, running my 12 year old SmartBoard, runs Windows 7.

      I could go on forever about our mission of improving children’s education in technology but I probably don’t need to here.

  145. meep*

    I just started a new position as an epidemiologist (yay)! My technical job title is Epidemiologist I. I’ve never had a job with levels like this before (there are just two steps here, Epi I and Epi II). Do I need to put Epidemiologist I on my email signature and linkedin account or can I just include Epidemiologist?

    1. CatCat*

      Unless your employer has a policy on this or there is some sort of universal understanding in your field about what Epidemiologist I and II mean, I would think Epidemiologist is just fine.

      My employer has a similar sort of internal classification system where the I and II would be meaningless to most outsiders (and, honestly, to most people within the organization) so I don’t use the number in my email or elsewhere.

    2. LaDeeDa*

      You don’t need to include it in your email, unless everyone else does. That is like just your classification for compensation and HR purposes.

    3. LQ*

      I think just Epidemiologist in the email and such is fine. I have my Epi IV on my LinkedIn and Resume because I was a II then III now IV so it shows promotions.

      But for email? My general experience is that around here people who put the number in their signature are not the people I want to work with. They often get hung up on title and levels and hierarchy. I think start without it and if you at some point need to put in the step you can, but you’re better off just going with the Epidemiologist. (Which is a cool job! Go you!)

  146. Nina*

    Just wanted to celebrate that I started an awesome new job! It’s a step up from my last role (from which I was laid off) and the work seems really exciting so far. It’s definitely thanks to Alison and the AAM community that I feel well-prepared for the role and that I made it through the application and interview process. I know that when I was job-searching I found it encouraging to hear about other people having success so I just wanted to encourage others, too.

    1. m*

      yay, congratulations Nina! being laid off and maintaining a positive attitude can be so tricky so I’m glad that you’ve landed something that seems awesome so far!

  147. Rhiiiiiiannnnnnnon*

    I wrote in a few months ago about a co-worker who left early nearly every day, and how I suspected she was still reporting a full 40 hours worked each week. Well, I found out that suspicion was correct. She confirmed it today. I’d guess that most weeks she works 35hrs.

    I know its none of my business. I’m not planning on reporting her for time sheet fraud or anything. And to be honest, I’ve been rewarded more than fairly for my hard work, so its not like working more has left me empty-handed. My gut is that I should never bring this up to our boss…and just ignore her 35hr week… is that the right instinct?

      1. Rhiiiiiiannnnnnnon*

        100% sure. She’s been avoiding me all day since she let slip that she leaves early, but records her time as 40hrs. To be fair, its our boss who lets her leave early when there’s nothing to do. It seems like she legitimately might not have enough work on her plate to support a full time job.

          1. valentine*

            If you’re sure the boss is allowing it, is that timecard fraud or does Boss have theauthority to count, I don’t know, her commute, as worthy of pay? Like letting everyone leave early around holidays, only…daily.

            If you’re unsure, report her, maybe in a “I wouldn’t want us to get in trouble” way.

    2. Namast'ay in Bed*

      Unless it is affecting you (“I need Leave-Early-Lana’s sign off on something but if it’s after 3:30 I can’t find her”, “I can never leave my desk in the late afternoon because Lana disappears”, “clients are calling me asking where she is”) or your boss asks you directly about it, your instinct is good and you unfortunately just have to grin and bear it.

      It sucks though, I totally get it. I’m someone who gets frustrated when I follow the rules and someone doesn’t but still benefits from it. It feels like injustice, but I think you’re doing the right thing, focusing on how your hard work has been rewarded (but maybe also secretly dreaming of the future schadenfreude you’ll get if she’s discovered one day ;-) ).

    3. Rusty Shackelford*

      Not unless it impacts your work (“phone coverage is difficult with Jane leaving at 4 every day”) or it somehow comes up organically (“no, Jane’s not here, I thought she was scheduled to leave at 4?”).

    4. Rainy days*

      Yeah, you don’t know if she worked something out privately…maybe working remotely late at night…or maybe taking a shorter day in exchange for giving up something else, like a raise.

      I understand the annoyance, believe me. I had a coworker who was counting his commute home as part of his work day, so his actual work was more like 30 hours / week most of the time. In the end, I realized that my boss most likely aware and choosing to turn a blind eye because the org didn’t have money to raise his salary, but his skills were so valuable she didn’t want to lose him, and plus he put in 50 hour weeks several times a year when work demanded it. Once I realized that, I actually agreed with her decision from an organizational standpoint.

    5. Bostonian*

      I’m all for giving people the benefit of the doubt, but OP clearly stated that the coworker admitted she was lying about her time.

      It sounds like you’re asking whether you’re obligated to report this, given that you know it’s time card fraud. No. You don’t have to.

  148. Beancounter*

    I’ve been with my current (and absolutely fantastic) employer for two years. My department is 20 good working people. Many of my coworkers are Facebook friends and a few see each other socially. But I struggle with friendships with coworkers. Early in my career, I got burned badly when a coworker turned friend took a personal problem he had with my roommate to our managers and made it a work problem. I dropped him like a hot potato.

    I’m friendly, but I wouldn’t consider any of them friends. But I feel like I’m missing out and I’m tempted to friend a couple on FB. I’m just fearful that it could backfire again. What is your take?

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      it’s cleaner and easier for me never to fund any current coworkers. When I leave a job, I friend everybody so we can stay in touch. But I don’t want anyone from my office to have more ways to triangulate what I used sick leave or vacation for. Just not my bag.

    2. Namast'ay in Bed*

      Personally, I like my coworkers, think they’re lovely people, really enjoy the occasional company-mandated happy hour with them, but the second we step foot outside the office we do not exist to each other, and I like it like that. Not that I would ignore them if I saw them out in public, but I’ve never really had the desire to cultivate deeper friendships with coworkers outside of work. It was sometimes hard at previous jobs to see coworkers being truly good friends and socializing outside of work (and really frustrating when that had an impact on actual work, like ok you had a brainstorming session by yourselves when you hung out, so now we can’t contribute our ideas?), but I realized that if we didn’t work together, we wouldn’t be good friends normally, so why should I be jealous of people essentially doing an activity I didn’t find fun? Another helpful factor is that I’m now working in an industry where close personal friendships aren’t expected/required, and my coworkers are all people with families and busy lives outside of work. I also have a good group of friends outside of work, so I don’t feel like I’m missing out on socializing or friendships in general.

      But that’s just me – my fiance has really close friendships with coworkers, and in fact still frequently gets together with former coworkers (I don’t think I’ve ever seen a former coworker again after we no longer worked together, unless I knew them prior to that job). It may be that his industry tends to attract similar personalities, so he’s more likely to like his coworkers on a more personal level, or perhaps connecting with coworkers is just something he enjoys and is good at.

      Long story short: if you genuinely want to get to know your coworkers better and become better/real friends, absolutely go for it! But if you feel like you should do it just because you feel like you’re supposed to be friends with your coworkers (I’m looking at you Brooklyn 99 and Parks and Rec), then don’t – there’s nothing wrong with being friendly, but not friends, with coworkers.

    3. Elizabeth West*

      I don’t friend current coworkers or bosses (especially) on FB. Only after one or both of us have moved on from the job, and then, only rarely. It’s rare for me to be friends with coworkers outside work. Around here, I don’t have much in common with most folks other than the job, and when it ends, there’s nothing to sustain the friendship.

  149. Anon for this*

    I have been working on a small team with graduate students, faculty, and staff from several departments for a project at a university. I am faculty and female.

    A few months ago a grad student started emailing me for help, which of course, is perfectly fine. Except she started referring to me as “dear” and “honey.” English is not this student’s first language. I had a discussion with the team lead as she is his graduate student, who met with the student and advised that these terms were really inappropriate. The student personally apologized to me, said she meant them as expressions of affection and gratitude and that she didn’t know it wasn’t appropriate. I thought we were past it.

    Except now she’s doing it again. I’m getting emails written with salutations like “hey, dear” and “thanks, sweetie.”

    Do I go back to the team lead? Do I take it up directly with the student? If I take it up with her, should this be through email or a verbal conversation? Any suggestions about how to phrase this?

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      Since the student personally apologized to you, I’d take it up with her. “Just a reminder, you shouldn’t be calling me dear or sweetie. Thanks!”

      I wonder if he explained these as terms people use when they’re very close to each other, and she thinks you guys have reached some kind of landmark?

        1. Rusty Shackelford*

          I’d do it in reply to the emails she sent you using those endearments. That way you can quickly get it out of the way and move on, without making it a big deal.

          “Hello Jane – just a reminder, you shouldn’t be calling me dear, thanks! Now, for your request for X…”

    2. Not a Real Giraffe*

      Given that she’s already apologized to you directly, I would take it up with the student herself. “Jane, as we discussed, using these terms of endearment are not appropriate in a work setting, even if you mean well. Please just call me Beth.” I personally think this can be done in email – in reply to one of the emails in which she uses one of these greetings, but others may recommend doing this in person so that she can understand your tone.

    3. Good luck!*

      Oh, that’s tough. I would talk to the faculty member again, as he certainly deserves to be in the loop on how his student is behaving (the student could be offending others who aren’t coming forward like you). Then I think it’s a bit up to you as to how to handle it otherwise, but I’d see what the faculty member says. I also think there’s no reason to not discuss it with the student if you want, and either email or verbal is fine.

      Dear Student,

      As (your boss) previously discussed with you, referring to colleagues as “dear” and “sweetie” is considered in appropriate. Please do not begin your emails to me this way.

      Sincerely,

      Me

      Maybe too harsh, but if she’s already been warned, harsh might be necessary.

    4. Teacher Trainer*

      I’d address it directly with her, in person if possible.

      “Name, we spoke before about using terms like dear and honey to address me and how this is inappropriate. You apologised and stopped for a while, but recently you’ve started doing it again. I need you to stop using these terms, permanently.” Be clear and direct, name the problem and what needs to happen.

      Then if she continues, go back to the team lead and ask him to handle it.

      1. fposte*

        Yeah, this is a coaching moment. If this person expects a career in the Anglophone U.S., they’re asking for trouble with this. That’s the point to make–not that you have a preference that’s different, but that this is not appropriate professional language and it works against them as professionals and scholars to continue with it after being told not to.

        1. Anon for this*

          Update: that was the tack I took. Thanks to all of you.

          She replied back, apologized again, and said she would take the advice. It sounds like Rusty Shackelford was right and she thought we had reached the level where this language was appropriate.

          1. Darren*

            I might be overly harsh but I would be making it pretty clear that she will never reach that level with the vast majority of people she works with (and that’s okay most people want to be friendly with people they work with, but not friends) to forestall this happening again in a few months?

            1. Anon for This*

              No, I get you. I basically wrote something to this effect. I stated that it wasn’t professionally acceptable in any work or academic setting.

  150. Annoyed anon*

    Boss and coworker are best friends. Coworker never gets into serious trouble because of this. I’m worried I’ll be the fall guy. How do you survive in a toxic, unstable environment (until you can get out)?

    1. AdAgencyChick*

      The best strategy I’ve found is to focus on what I’m doing to get out, and looking forward to any milestones on the way (looking forward to your next interview, or to the next time you’ll get to sit down and research jobs to apply to, etc.).

    2. London Calling*

      One of the best pieces of advice I ever read (it might even have been on here) is to watch the antics with the detachment of an anthropologist observing a hitherto undiscovered tribe. You could even do a David Attenborough narration in your head – for anyone who doesn’t know who he is

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Attenborough

      The other piece of advice that worth its weight in gold is document the hell out of every interaction so that your backside is covered. That has never failed me and has on many occasions saved my skin. On occasions when all the office chat gets too much I pretend I’m walking along the beach and the voices are seagulls calling.

  151. anonanonanon*

    I’m not sure if this has been talked about before, but if you applied from a job & were rejected (but never made it to the interview stage), is it weird to call HR & ask for feedback on your resume & cover letter?

    1. Psyche*

      It is unlikely you will get feedback if they didn’t even interview you. Most openings get a ton of applicants and they probably don’t remember your resume and cover letter.

    2. Rainy days*

      Yeah, it wouldn’t go over well esp if you were weeded out early. I’ve given people feedback who made it to the interview stage if they ask for it, but I think I’m not the norm even in being willing to do that.

    3. fposte*

      In addition to what people say, even if you got farther along, you would email a request like that, not call.

  152. dumblewald*

    So I know that there is a recession coming but am also noticing that a lot of companies are hiring. I’m actively searching as well. Would it be wise to switch jobs now? I don’t want to switch just to get laid off… at the same time, my current job has no potential (it’s my first salaried job) and it would be a shame to be stuck here for too long (tho better than unemployment!)

    1. Four lights*

      It likely depends on your industry and job title and how likely you think layoffs would be. As you’re searching, you can also research the company to see if they look like they’re doing well, have they ever had to lay people off before…

    2. MountainMeg*

      Love your name!

      I think the forecast on a coming recession is a little hazy at this point and we never really know for sure what will happen. I’ve heard there’s an upcoming recession for at least 3 years. Even if there is a recession and you’ve just started a new position, it doesn’t mean you’ll be laid off.

      I would say it never hurts to apply and see what’s out there!

    3. Sloan Kittering*

      This is like the “when is the best time to buy a house” debate. I feel like for me, the best time to buy a house is when I want to and when I have the money to be able to, and I’m going to live with it if it turns out some other magical time would be better. I wouldn’t make personal life decisions based on big picture economic cycles, particularly predictions. Even during the 2008 recession there were some people who got great jobs and made a ton of money.

    4. Autumnheart*

      Life’s a crapshoot. You could stay where you are and get laid off, you could get a new job and get laid off, there’s no way to tell. I would recommend not making any hugely risky plans (e.g. taking a year off to backpack across Europe), but to proceed as you normally would, while taking extra care to pad your savings account, pay down any outstanding debt as much as you can, and keep your resume and portfolio (if applicable) polished.

      Just to illustrate, I was laid off 7 times during the dot-com crash, finally found a stable job in 2004 and spent the next few years paying down all my layoff debt, managed to not be impacted by the 2008 recession, and was in a perfect position to buy a house at the bottom of the market in 2009. That was due to LUCK and to hedging my bets where I could–I certainly didn’t have any advantages over anyone else. Basically, if you can use the good times to build yourself a soft landing for the bad times, that’s about as good as you can do. Everything else is outside your control, really.

  153. Miss Smilla*

    Has anyone here used Sales Navigator on LinkedIn? I have access through work and had a training with someone from LinkedIn a few weeks ago. The trainer’s suggestions to contact potential customers because we have shared interests didn’t sound very professional.

    1. Anoncorporate*

      I’ve used it for work but don’t have much to say about it, because it doesn’t do me any good. People barely respond because they get creeped out by LinkedIn messages from rando strangers, which makes sense.

  154. Good luck!*

    What is the standard expectations for grades after acceptance to graduate school? I just took a very rough final (I’m an older working student, so the classes are online and not in sync with a semester), but I’ve already been accepted to schools for next fall… I assume as long as it’s too horrific, it’s okay? Do I email them and plead my case, or just not do anything? Ahh….

    1. Psyche*

      Are you going to fail the class? Is it a class relevant to what you are going to grad school for? If you are failing a class directly relevant to your grad program it could cause a problem. If the class is not relevant to your grad program and you have a passing but bad grade you are going to be ok. Don’t freak out too much until you get your grade back. You may not even have done that badly, especially if it is curved.

      1. Good luck!*

        It would be almost impossible for me to fail it at this point, but it’s possible that I ended up with a C or a B-? I guess we’ll see… it would be one of the upper-level classes that shows if I could succeed in a grad program, theoretically.

        I agree that I shouldn’t worry too much until I get the grade, but there’s some comfort in knowing I’ve got a plan for the worst case scenario :)

      2. Good luck!*

        False alarm, looks like I’ll be getting an A- in the class. PHEW! So happy to be done with that! :D

    2. Nesprin*

      What was your program’s GPA standard for admission- will you drop below it? Are you in danger of not getting your degree? If either of those, I’d call the department’s admin (or failing that, dean, but that tends to be more firepower than you need) and ask, otherwise chalk it up to learning.

  155. MountainMeg*

    Any advice on enforcing/introducing something I strongly disagree with?

    I manage a team of 4 people. My organization has so.many.issues culturally, in overall vision and focus, etc. and it generally all stems from the owners, so there’s very little that I can do to implement change. I’m looking for another position but in the meantime, I’m struggling with how to implement decisions that I find, well, asinine. I found out a few weeks ago that they’re planning on a) putting my team under a different, new director and b) giving them additional responsibilities that are only tangentially related to what they were actually hired for (think teapot design in addition to providing client support to teapot buyers). This was actually part of their responsibilities previous to this team being moved to me and it worked so poorly that they eliminated it. Now, 6 months later, they’re sure that it will work this time. I’ve voiced my concerns as diplomatically as possible (I’m concerned that we hired these people looking for certain skills that don’t correspond with their new responsibilities which will result in a high rate of turnover, I’m concerned the skillset this would require is very rare or nonexistent, I’m worried this new director is being asked to do too many diverse things, etc.) My concerns have been brushed aside, and I’m not in a position to invest more effort in stopping this moving train (trust me when I tell you that this is just one of several battles I’m fighting) I’m working on figuring out the right approach to present this to my team (on Monday) and a way to address their concerns. I’ve worked incredibly hard to turn this team around and gain their trust. Part of me wants to say “Run!” But I know I can’t.

    I’ve included as much detail as possible while still being brief, but this really is just the tip of the iceberg. This isn’t just me being stubborn and refusing to adopt a policy that will serve the company well. My organization is incredibly disorganized, doesn’t care about people at all and is generally toxic. In the 8 months that I’ve been here 3 members of the executive team (that I am a part of) have left suddenly. I know at least one other and myself are planning to leave.

    1. Not All*

      When I was in an organization like this, the middle-manager who was the most successful was the one who was honest with his team. He would flat out tell them he personally disagreed with XYZ and had tried to convince the higher ups not to do it but that the decision had been made and there was nothing we could do to change it. We’d all groan a little, and move on with trying to figure out how to make it as least-awful as possible.

      The other managers who went the rah-rah route and pretended they were totally onboard and agreed with XYZ awful decision had a LOT more trouble. 1) they had to have hours of arguments/debates with their teams who thought they could make the managers see reason 2) their teams thought THEY were the ones making incredibly bad decisions, which resulted in a lot of lost trust & respect on other day to day matters 3) it took those teams a lot longer to figure out how to make awful-policy as doable as possible.

      Obviously if you have a problematic person on your team who is going to run straight to the bigwigs and say “MM said you’re doing something stupid even though she disagrees”, then this isn’t a good approach!

  156. PurpleBooks*

    How do you know when your struggles at work mean you need to quit, or try harder?

    I feel like in all of my jobs, I master the lower-level stuff quickly, but then get to the intermediate-level, and hit a wall. I’m not changing careers or fields, so it’s not like I’m totally relearning all new stuff….if you read my resume, my career trajectory makes sense (I do database development in higher ed IT). But I feel like I’ve hit that wall again and I’m really struggling. Like, I’m a superstar performer in the beginning, but then after a few years I’m not so competent anymore.

    I guess the struggle wouldn’t be so bad if I didn’t feel like I was running out of time to get past that wall. In my previous job, it became clear that my management wasn’t happy with me anymore, and our relationship just sort of deteriorated, until I got another job (my current one). I’ve done pretty well in it for the past 2 years, but now I feel like I hit that wall again, and it’s only going to be a matter of time before my management runs out of time and patience. The difference here is, my boss is a way better boss (and person) than my last one, so I can trust that he’ll at least be honest with me about it. But it’s still stressful and sad to me that it feels like it’s going to happen again.

    Basically I feel like I’m just not meant to perform the higher-level work that I want to do. I want to progress my career, not only for better opportunities and money, but because I really want to learn and get good at this stuff, but it’s just such a struggle, and I don’t see others struggling like I am.

    Does this happen to anyone else? Thanks for your input!

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      Have you ever read “growth mindset” ? I used to feel similarly, but I realized that part of my issue was that I didn’t feel like I should struggle / felt like struggling was a sign of a problem. Struggle can be a good thing if it means you are challenging yourself and growing.

      1. PurpleBooks*

        I will check that out! I agree that struggling can be a sign of growth and not of failure, but I’m worried that I can’t tell when it’s either growth or failure. I know that I will struggle, and will have issues – I’ve been in IT for 10 years now, so I know stuff is not always going to work! – but I feel like I’m having a disproportionate amount of struggling.

        1. LaDeeDa*

          I would do a little cataloging and pathing to see if your struggles all go back to one or two things- industry knowledge, technical skills (a specific area of technical skills)- it might help to find a theme.
          Also, when you do struggle do you feel like you grew from it, or do you feel like you just got through it? Can you apply what you just struggled through to a different problem/situation? Did you learn enough during that struggle to get by, was it “good enough” OR did it add another piece to the puzzle, did you learn a skill/behavior/knowledge that applies to the bigger picture and you can use in other areas.

    2. LaDeeDa*

      This is what I do for a living- Talent Development.
      So a couple of questions to ask yourself — when you say “higher-level work” do you mean greater skills, or do you mean higher level behavior and thinking? For example, do you have a specific skill related to database design that you need to get better at- such as developing documentation? Do you need to focus on staying current in trends/methods/ applications? Or do you need to build your behaviors around solutions/problem-solving/big picture thinking?
      Both types of development are possible, you and your manager need to define where you need/want to develop. Feel free to post more questions/answers if you want any help!

      1. PurpleBooks*

        Both actually – there are hard skills I need to develop, but I also feel like I “don’t know what I don’t know” and that causes me to struggle more than I should. I did not enter IT from a traditional background, so there’s a lot of gaps in my knowledge.

        I talked about this with my boss during my last review, and we talked about some ways to improve my troubleshooting skills and knowledge, and I’ve been trying to implement those…but it just feels like it’s too little, too late. I’m not worried about being fired, but I am worried that they are just going to stop giving me chances and investing in me.

        1. LaDeeDa*

          I would take matters into my own hands. Based on the conversations you have had, or areas where you feel you need to develop, I would make a development plan. I would pick 1 hard skill, and 1 soft skill (from what you said, my first soft skill would be “gain industry knowledge”) and then make a plan and a timeline (6 months chunks). If your company offers training- take advantage of that, find the kind of training you want, and ask to attend. If they don’t, look into what you can do for yourself (YouTube is free, Udemy is inexpensive, LinkedIn is also reasonably priced), join a professional organization that offers lunch and learns and free webinars, and may be able to pair you with a mentor.
          All that being said, at some point we all reach our maximum level and our potential- I am not saying that is what happened, but it does happen, and there is nothing wrong with that. I helped someone the other day realize that where they are is likely the right place for them. Their development should focus on staying current in their industry, and not worry about advancement. Staying current and relevant is important too.

    3. Koala dreams*

      I think it’s pretty common for succesfull people to change jobs pretty often. You get to know the industry better and learn more by working at different jobs. It’s also common when it comes to learning to feel like you hit a plateu after a while. Learning things is seldom a smooth curve upwards. Often it’s when you are struggling the most that you are learning the most, only it’s hard to notice on the inside. (Your last boss apparently found it equally hard to notice on the outside.)

      In my field, I definitely feel there is new things to learn all the time. Part of it is personal, how to get better at communicating with people and organizing your own work, and part of it is related to the industry, like regulations that change or different perspectives on work depending on your exact role. My boss likes to give me new tasks to me to try my hands on. Sometimes I learn them, and sometimes I have to give them up because it takes too long to learn. That’s just how it is.

  157. Mrs. Carmen Sandiego JD*

    Kind of a weird situation. I was assigned to be the Teapot Part A point person for the Teapot Division. Happy problem is, the Teapot Division streamlined and automated everything to the point I’ve been told by 2+ folks there is definitely no longer a need for a Teapot Part A point person. So, I let my mentor know (it’s a specialized process); plus I love reading 80 page manuals and writing them too, so now he’s finding a way for me to do that instead.

    (I basically told mentor that I had a “happy problem” in that everything was so automated, plus nobody needed a point person, and tasks were already perfectly distributed so I would love *more* tasks to do since I already wrote 3 documents that took me 3 hours that typically took former workers there 3 days).

    Anybody run into a similar “happy problem” where the work you were given was so easy you ended up finishing it in a fraction of the time?

  158. SarahBot*

    What are your favorite things to do / bring into your office to make your desk a warmer, more welcoming, more you place? I need to get a plant or two, and I have some cubicle wall space that I can use, but I’d love to get more ideas!

    1. LDN Layabout*

      I like things with light? Not ‘blind your coworkers on a regular basis’ but a soft neon or cinematic light boxes? Especially if it’s something you can switch up or personalise on a regular basis

      1. Jaid*

        I have a silvered mason jar with a separate LED strip inside. The LED strip is powered by a USB cord and has a wireless controller. It’s set on a fade color change cycle, like green into blue into red, etc. It’s really pretty.
        (Mason jar from craft store, LED from Amazon and meant to go behind your TV for ambient lighting.)

    2. Jonah*

      I have a sphere-shaped terrarium with a few low-maintenance plants, tiny plastic dinosaurs, (real) earthworms, and a garden snail I found when I was refreshing my garden in the fall. The critters are unnoticeable to my coworkers and not at risk of escaping, I had centipedes before the snail and worms, which were not a big hit with my coworkers who knew about them.

      I also have a few bottles of liquor (totally acceptable in my agency), a teeny tiny glass duck that I got from my massage therapist (it sparks joy!), a jar of sugar free candies, a box of tissues within visitor reach, and a wood-framed felt sign with plastic letters that I update monthly with relevant/motivational quotes. Right now it says, “Start testing and stop arguing.” I’m also a big fan of the classic wall calendar, and I have one with puppies and motivational quotes on it.

      Coworkers’ office decorations include: a full-sized, realistic plastic skeleton, a glowing glass flask of mystery liquid, various sports pennants, vision boards (not the most appropriate for the workplace imo), and a collection of vintage watercolor paintings of foxhunts.

    3. Elizabeth West*

      I like plants. Pothos, aka Devil’s ivy, do well in offices; they like fluorescent light and you only have to water them once a week.

      I also like to have a few items around that make me happy. A fun mug, and maybe a little office-appropriate toy, nothing loud or that shoots uncontrollable projectiles. Once, I had a little tiny water ring toss on my desk, the kind you fill with water and then press a button to shoot the rings onto little posts (it’s all self-contained). People would play with it when they stopped by my desk. At Exjob, some folks had little bobbleheads and other tchotchkes they enjoyed in their cubes.

      Comfort items, too. At Exjob, I got a cheap storage ottoman at Target and a little blanket for when it’s cold (it was a cute fleece remnant with a pattern of daisies), which I kept in the ottoman.

    4. Catsaber*

      Target has cheap string lights in various designs in the dollar section each holiday/month, and I will pick up one of those and string them across my bulletin board. Right now I have little wicker lantern balls.

  159. Jessen*

    Oh, another question from me:

    I’m about 3 months into newjob. Frontline IT helpdesk for a government thing. A big part of my job is giving people access to various things, which of course I have to get approval for.

    One thing I’ve noticed is that there doesn’t seem to be any central way to figure out who needs to approve what. Most of the office seems to default to “ask the one guy who’s been here forever.” There are a few different ways to figure it out, but most of them seem to be based on looking up who it’s been in the past. That strikes me as a bad idea because if someone leaves, I might have no idea who has replaced them or even what their job title was.

    I’d like to propose maybe figuring out some sort of system that would definitely tell me “Ms. Scarlet is in charge of the Wrenches project, and Col. Mustard heads up the Lead Pipes division, and so forth.” But I’m not sure if I’d be overstepping or how to approach it.

    1. Four lights*

      To your supervisor: “As you know I’ve been getting approvals to give people access to various things. I’ve found it’s a bit time consuming to figure out whose approval is required. I think it could be helpful to have a list of the various programs and whose approval is required. What do you think? Is this something that’s been tried before and hasn’t worked, or do you think it could be helpful to set up?”

      I don’t think it’d be overstepping to bring it up.

      1. Jessen*

        Fair enough. We sort of have some lists, but there’s no tie to job title and no way for us to know when something changes. So the lists are often out of date, and the names that are on them have no real explanation. That seems like it would be the hardest part – making sure the lists stay updated.

        1. Four lights*

          Then maybe something like, “some of the information on the lists is out of date, and I think it could be helpful to add the job title as well, since the person listed may move out of that position.” If you’re up for keeping it updated yourself, you could flag it to be reviewed every 6/ 12 months.

          My experience with things like this is that they may not be updated because people have been there so long they “just know” whom to ask, and/or because they’d like to update it but other things take priority. Sometimes people just get used to things and it’s the new person who says, hey, I think we can do something better here. I definitely think it’s worth bringing up and if you have the time to do it they’d probably be happy to let you.

          I think most good employers are ok with you bringing up an idea like this (one that you saw because of a problem in your actual work, as opposed to “I know how to solve all of our department’s problems, even though I’ve only been here 3 months!”) I think the other key to not overstepping is to be okay if they say “no.” Some people will keep bringing their ideas up.

          1. Jessen*

            Yeah that’s been my impression here – people tend to stay a while, so there’s a lot of people who just know who to ask and what to do. So this has led to a lot of documentation issues as no one’s been staying on top of that side.

            I’ve already been doing some SOP updating, in coordination with our other new hire, as we both made the same comments that the SOPs aren’t always very clear for people who don’t already know what they’re doing. Really just pinning my senior colleagues down and typing up what they just did.

  160. Catherine*

    I recently started a new job, and I’m finding dealing with my new boss, J, really hard. There has been constant high turnover in the team, my colleagues are pretty much silent, stressed and the atmosphere is horribly tense. It’s awful. J is outwardly very pleasant and open, and quotes management theories constantly. But in reality J reacts terribly to questions or opinions, despite having asked for them, and is extremely demanding and dictatorial.

    Today J said that in dealing with a junior person we should load and load them with work until they can’t cope and quality suffers, at which point you know they’ve reached their limit, because that’s what J does. As a team member, it didn’t feel at all good to hear what I can look forward to. Am I being all over sensitive or is that just a horrible management technique?

    1. MountainMeg*

      That’s…pretty bad. I can totally relate to you though. I’m in a similar boat with what sounds like a similar boss.

  161. Heh?*

    Do you think it’s weird when an previous employee comes back to visit your office after they’ve quit or retired? Just to go talk to old coworkers and tell them about their new job and life? I guess that’s nice that they feel comfortable about coming back but this one person has been coming back like every other week to just walk around the office and catch up with people after they’ve left heir position 2 months ago.

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      Ugh yeah I’d rather see this person do a happy hour after work or something, versus coming into the office distracting everybody.

    2. fposte*

      I don’t think it’s weird when people come back. I do think it’s weird when they come back four times in the eight weeks since they left.

      2. noahwynn*

        Exactly my thoughts. Once, because you happen to be close by? Ok, I can see that although I probably still wouldn’t do it, but ok. Every other week? No, that’s odd.

      4. Elizabeth West*

        Yes, absolutely this.
        We had trouble at a former job with the former managers doing this. Of course they used to be owners, and I think they still felt somewhat proprietary, but they eventually had to be told not to come in any more.

    3. eleanor rigby*

      Not everyone leaves burning bridges or due to unhappiness. Sounds like your former coworker enjoys your current coworkers and…this may shock some people but be friends with them?

      Does it cause you any hassle? If not, it’s not really any of your business what former coworker does.

    4. There's Always Money in the Banana Stand*

      We have a guy who retired 4 or 5 years ago, and comes in every week. Granted, we’re a financial institution, and he banks here, but 1.) Nobody physically enters a bank once a week because they have to–its because they want to–and 2.) He stays to chat with everyone for at least an hour every time he comes in. I assume he’s lonely. Maybe your previous coworker is also lonely.

    5. Joielle*

      Yeah that’s weird. Maybe once a year would be ok – like if they moved away and are in town for the holidays or something. If they still want to keep in touch with coworkers more regularly, they need to meet up after work.

  162. Maggie May*

    I’m working on getting an internal transfer to a different department. Currently there are two dev spots open where I would like to move, and I talked to one of the team leads a couple weeks ago. I just heard back that he’s not interested in me, and that he’s looking for someone more senior? The job ad is for someone with 5+ years experience (I have 6) and is for the language I specialize in.

    He has no way to have seen my code or know what my skills are as I never did a code practical for them and their department doesn’t have access to our department’s code. Is “more senior” like code for something? Did he not like me? V confused.

    I asked the internal recruiter if he said in which area I’m lacking. I really want to get off the team I am on and on a new team so this is a set back for sure.

    1. Maggie May*

      just checked and the team lead started work in May 2013 and has only worked for my company. I started work in June 2013 in an internship for another company, then started working here October 2013. More senior is just not adding up.

      1. Darren*

        More senior can mean things like:
        “I’m looking for someone with experience in being the technical lead on large (maybe even cross-department) projects (which is definitely possible for someone with 5+ years of experience, but it’s also possible to have 10 years of experience and not have any experience in that area).”

        He wouldn’t have to look at your code in anyway to know whether or not you’d meet that simply him not having heard about you before you applied would be enough of an indication you probably don’t have the kind of experience he is looking for.

        Can you share a bit more details about what you typically do compared to what the job description is asking for?

        1. Maggie May*

          It’s looking for 5+ years of Javascript experience, of which I have 6. I’m already a Senior Software Engineer in the company, and it would be a transfer to another senior software engineer spot. It’s literally a lateral move, but my team is still working on legacy frameworks and libraries vs more modern ones. In my spare time I work on the modern ones, but not professionally.

          I’m somehow 6 years into my career and facing the catch 22 of I need a job for experience but more experience for jobs :)

          1. Darren*

            So the one things I can think of:

            * Is there anything in the job about responsibilities which includes things you haven’t done? Obviously barring the frameworks since I’m assuming you’d have explained when you applied that you have used the frameworks his team uses in your spare time.

            * What is the general thoughts about your team from the company as a whole? Some companies I’ve worked in have had one (or more) teams which were thought of extremely poorly by the rest of the business (i.e. they focussed on things not the main focus of the business, or they were thought to be poorly run) which raised the bar significantly for any kinds of transfers. Given the fact your team is working on legacy frameworks it’s possible it might fall into this category.

            * Is it possible he does know about you (i.e. have you worked with someone with whom he interacts with fairly frequently) potentially from interactions in the past and given how unimpressed he was then he isn’t willing to even consider the possibility you might have improved?

            1. Maggie May*

              There’s nothing in the job I haven’t technically done, I’m just out of practice on a lot of things due to some initiatives that required putting new development to the side and focused on legacy development.

              My team is incredibly internal, as most people have never heard of us. He was reticent about me until he learned that I wasn’t on my department’s dev team as a whole, as he did mention he’d had problems with them in the past. He was worried as those developers usually only take projects for a few months, and then move on, but I’ve been maintaining a code base for 5.5 years.

              I’m trying to move as I’ve peaked in my current role (I have already talked to my manager and she has implied there is no forward growth right now, nor did she offer to help).

              1. Darren*

                So it sounds like there is a bit of a bar then in moving from your team (due to bad experiences with previous developers from the team). I think what you are going to have to do here is build the relationship with that other manager which is probably not going to be easy.

                You need him to have a positive opinion of you which is in contrast to his negative opinion of your team.

                Perhaps take the lack of ideas from your manager for growth as an opportunity see if you can get her to approve you to look for your own development opportunities, and then try to work with the manager of this new team for ways to prove your abilities to him, and generally keep yourself visible to him (to your manager this is at a minimum building up your technical skills with the newer frameworks although if they are a good manager they will know that having good relationships with other teams is also highly valuable for long term career development).

                1. Maggie May*

                  The bad experiences aren’t from my team, though. It’s from a separate team in the same department and our responsibilities are completely separate. They do custom customer work and I work on internal company tools.

                  And it was less lack of ideas and more “there’s no where for you to move right now” as I’d in the end like to get out of coding :)

                  thanks a bunch for your responses.

  163. Queenie*

    It’s Friday, barely snowing (when will it stop?!) and I am very sick. My boss said no I can’t call in sick because she doesn’t feel like drive in the snow and one of us must be here to cover our direct report’s 15 minute break today. I desperately need a new job…

    1. WellRed*

      “I’m vomiting and have a temperature of 103. I cannot work today.” Doesn’t have to be true, mind you.

  164. Vanny Hall*

    I applied a week ago to a job listed on the website for my field’s regional association. Yesterday the hiring manager sent a friendly email letting me know the job is now posted on the company website and asking me to resubmit my application there.

    The newer posting is quite different in emphasis and lists requirements I don’t technically meet. (In contrast, I felt very qualified for the first posting.) The new ad also includes a salary range whose top end is considerably lower than the stated salary in the first posting. To be honest, I would not consider leaving my current job except at the very top of the new salary range.

    Should I resubmit the same letter and resume (which the manager may have already read), revise them to try to better meet the new job criteria, or simply reply that I no longer feel the job is a match? I’m really confused by this bait-and-switch–but still very interested in the job as described in the original posting!

    1. Namast'ay in Bed*

      I’d reach back out to the hiring manager and ask them to clarify if you’re looking at the right position, considering it is very different from the first one, both in terms of description and salary. Maybe throw in a “I’m very excited about the position described in the original posting” for good measure.

      1. Vanny Hall*

        Thanks, yes, I already did that, and she just said to base my application on the newer posting. (The old one is still up, though, with the higher salary!) It’s puzzling.

        1. Psyche*

          I would probably reply that while you were very excited about the original position, the revised position does not sound like a good fit.

        2. Darren*

          I imagine that after further discussion and potentially someone taking on some of the bits of work the new posting is a more accurate representation of what the position will actually be.

  165. Anon for this*

    “How Not To Quit Your Job”, by a co-worker of mine who had his last day this week:

    Step 1: Hand in your notice as required by your contract (we’re not in the US, so contracts are normal here)
    Step 2: Around noon on your last day, write a “goodbye everyone” message to an email alias that includes all your co-workers AND all their direct managers, in which you spend two sentences saying goodbye and eight sentences talking about how lousy the company is
    Step 3: ?
    Step 4: Be walked out the door two minutes later. Kiss your chances of a good reference goodbye and be blacklisted from the company at least, potentially even from the entire industry.

    To be perfectly frank, I can see why he was not happy with the job, but this was definitely not the way to handle it.

    1. MissDisplaced*

      IDK man, he must’ve really hated it and thought it worth it. I’ve been there. I think it’s kind of funny.

      1. valentine*

        The employer should’ve taken the high road. Maybe disable or filter his emails, but let him finish out the day. What’s the big deal?

    2. Darren*

      I’ve seen a couple of people do that over the years. Typically they already have a new position (and have secured any references from people they know who agreed with them that they might care about) and just want to go out with a bang.

      You’ll want to be careful about actually changing that reference much. If it was going to be a good reference the only thing you can really legally do is mention the unprofessional departure. If you change the entire reference you could potentially open yourself and your company to legal action (you have to be factual, if he did good work, you can’t say he didn’t).

    3. anonforthis*

      My guess is he knew what he was doing…or he’s an idiot. Just last week one of my coworkers quit without notice. He wasn’t even planning to do this. He got into a confrontation, and it was the last straw. He walk to HR, gave his laptop away, said he quit and wasn’t coming back, and left the building. My managers had to scamble for last minute covers for his scheduled calls that day.

  166. bubble T*

    Do I have to be bubbly to succeed?

    Hi everyone, I’m a young professional doing tech work in the finance industry. I feel like every woman in my office regardless of age is bubbly and a big ray of sunshine. I like them, they’re not the problem. My issue is that I’m nothing like that at work. I am very serious when it comes to anything work-related and I’m often told to smile during meetings/sitting at my cube. My grandboss also made a comment to me where he wished that I was as enthusiastic at greeting him as “Jane”.

    I’m not unhappy and sitting angrily at my desk. I’m just not a loud and expressive person. I’m frustrated because I feel pressured to exaggerate how I feel. Is this something I will have to work on or is there a way for me to succeed professionally without being a peppy person?

    2. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

      Your boss wants you to be “more enthusiastic in greeting him”?!?! EWWWW

      I tend to be reserved and serious too. I think as long as you try to avoid having RBF and are warm to people when you interact with them, it’s more than fine to be more reserved.

    3. fposte*

      Jump up on the grandboss and lick his face?

      More seriously, if you think there’s room for you to do this, consider taking a beat and saying “I take this job and our customers seriously. I hope that’s something we all respect” or, if you want to name the elephant in the room, say “I never hear people comment here on whether the men are smiling or not. I hope the women’s work can speak for itself without that too.”

    4. OtterB*

      “wished I was as enthusiastic at greeting him as Jane”

      This makes it sound like grandboss wants you to be a golden retriever.

      I would try to find a sweet spot where perhaps you lighten up some, but don’t try to become someone you’re not.

    5. Zona the Great*

      I recommend not doing anything to change the way your face looks and how your tone is when greeting grandboss. I made the effort to change my seriousness at the request of others only to become exhausted and resentful. My go-to response to these gross comments is usually, “Why? So you feel better about the way my face looks?”. I said this to someone who suggested I should tan. Um, what? So you like the way I look more? Screw off.

    6. Higher ed, on the staff side*

      Oh, this kind of feedback is infuriating. I got this a lot when I was younger. I get it far less now that I’m in my late thirties. I honestly think it’s a power play when it comes from an older man — like they’re just more comfortable with personality displays that read “cheerful young thing, here to do my bidding”!

      You have no obligation to be bubbly or change your personality. Should you try to be friendly and personable? Certainly. But I don’t think that has to mean being bubbly and effusive, if that’s not who you are.

    7. LilySparrow*

      I assume you’re aware that pressuring women to “smile” or perform emotions for men’s gratification is intensely sexist.

      If there is a decent-sized reporting structure over your grandboss along with a competent and professional HR department, I’d suggest having a low-key talk with them about how to handle this. Particularly the comment about the way he wants you to greet him. Not in a “I am reporting this” way, but in a “hey, this is weird, what would you suggest I do about it?”

      It’s possible the HR department may not be helpful. Or your grandboss may be in a position without much accountability. In which case you know that your company has a culture of deeply-rooted, overt sexism.

      So if you want to advance in that environment, learning to perform might help you or reduce your daily friction. But not all companies are like that, so it might be more productive to ignore the comments, be generally friendly, polite and pleasant in your own style that’s comfortable for you, and just put in enough time to get the resume credit and get out.

    8. just a thought*

      I’m super quiet young woman in a tech field too. I would get this all the time. I usually just say I’m quiet because I’m concentrating on what I’m working on and need to focus. The HR person at my first job explained to me that it’s pretty sexist and there’s nothing wrong with me.

      For what it’s worth, my current boss is a woman of color in a very white male dominated field and she’s the same way. She made a comment when I started that she’s used to being the most quiet person and it’s nice to have someone else that’s the same way. So no, I don’t think you (or anyone else) has to change to succeed. In her case, she does great work and it spoke for itself.

    10. dumblewald*

      This is textbook sexism out the wazoo.

      Do you need to be bubbly to succeed? Not when you work for reasonable people, which you don’t. And as long as you work for disrespectful sexist assholes, you will never succeed for any reason because men.

    11. SaaSyPaaS*

      Yuck, grandboss is being weird.

      I’m also doing tech work in the finance industry and am definitely on the reserved side. When I’m at work, I’d rather just focus and do what I need to do. I’ve been told to smile in the past (it used to happen all the time), and all that really does is make me feel insecure about my face and now I interact with other people, like something is wrong with me (even though I know it’s not a “me” problem). I wish people who say things like that would understand that those comments are not helpful. I don’t think I’ve ever told someone to smile, and I really wonder what motivates someone to say it to another person. It doesn’t make any sense to me. Anyway, I have found, that if I make myself participate in random group conversations that are going on around me, smiles will happen organically. I don’t tend to naturally want to converse during work, so it’s definitely a conscious effort on my part, and I don’t spend too much time on these conversations. I have gotten to know my coworkers better as a result, and I can’t remember the last time someone told me to smile. Of course, this might be because I’m working with better people now and not due to anything else.

  167. kebs*

    I wanted to find the perfect ask a manager post to send to someone who is about to become a manager and wanted something to read in preparation. Can anyone point me in the direction of a post that sort of summarises the Alison approach to being a manager. I found one summary post but it linked to an external article which felt like it wouldn’t do AAM justice.

    1. Elizabeth Proctor*

      She did a recent podcast with a new manager. I’d send that one. It was in the last few weeks.

  168. MiniKoala18*

    Looking for advice on how to ask for a promotion –

    I’ve worked for the same organization since I graduated from college (total of 7 years.) I first started as an intern, and over the years I have worked my way up to a coordinator position. The organization that I work for is a large not-for-profit performing arts center and I specifically work in fundraising. I’ve held my position for 5 years and while I’m happy with the department that I work in and am generally happy with my work responsibilities and duties, I feel a bit stifled in terms of progressing to a managerial or supervisory role within my organization.

    Asking for a raise or a promotion is a taboo topic – I get a yearly “cost of living” raise which is between 2-5% based on my yearly performance review. In my last two reviews, which were positive, I’ve mentioned that I would like take on more responsibilities and that I am feeling stifled with my career growth…and while my manager listens and acknowledges my growing pains, nothing comes of it. Additionally, moving up or getting promoted with my organization is fairly difficult – for example, no one has gotten a promotion in my department of 20 in the last 5 years; my organization has more than 150 employees and typically there are only 5 promotions company wide in a fiscal year.

    TLDR; I guess I’m at a loss of what to do – I’m a hard worker, I’ve gotten all positive performance reviews since I’ve started working here and I love what I do – but I don’t feel that my title or salary reflect the job that I do and I don’t feel appreciated.

    1. Higher ed, on the staff side*

      It sounds like it may be time to take your experience elsewhere, if you have higher ambitions.

      I sympathize — I really, really do. Often, in small organizations, there just isn’t much room for growth. Particularly when turnover is low. Based on the low promotion rate in your organization, this isn’t a You Problem — but it is a problem if you have higher ambitions.

    2. Psyche*

      Honestly, its sounds like you should start looking outside your organization if you want to move up. You could try telling your boss that you don’t feel your title and salary reflect he job you do and ask her what you need to do in order to move up, but it doesn’t sound like there is much hope there.

  169. Cute Li'l UFO*

    Nightmare Tyrannical CEO Contract is OVER.

    I don’t know if he’ll realize that yelling at someone to “OWN IT!” or “What the hell am I paying you for” and “what do you even do all day?!” are good ways to manage.

    Classic “if I can’t see tangible results you’re clearly doodling around on the internet all day” kind of guy.

    This is apparently a pattern. Goodbye, getting the Kubrick stare as I tuck unto the delicious catered lunches that you hoped I’d go home for! HA!

    1. StellaBella*

      Actually, when I worked for a large software firm … I have colleagues who were yelled at by the CEO the exact phrase “What the hell am I paying you for” … this was in the late 90’s tho and since then this CEO has left, and gone on to do much, much bigger things.

      1. Cute Li'l UFO*

        Oh, there’s way way more to the situation.

        But neither here nor there. He had no idea what exactly I did and wouldn’t take no for an answer. Code the new site tonight in CSS? OWN IT!

        1. Cute Li'l UFO*

          More turnovers there than the Pepperidge Farm factory and I’m off to somewhere with a much better fit where I don’t have to explain that I’m not HR to the CEO.

  170. AnonyMouse*

    I FINALLY have made it to the reference check stage for a position that I’ve applied and interviewed for! I know there is no guarantee, but this is the closest I’ve come to an offer in the past 9 months. I am so hopeful for this to work out. Please keep the positive vibes coming!

  171. Claire*

    So I’m still working through how I feel about OldJob, but I’m glad to say I now have a reference from there, and I can start job hunting in earnest. In the meantime, I’m focusing on my writing career. I just created a new website for my pen name, and I’d be ever so grateful to get any feedback from y’all. The site is http://claireodell.com.

    In return, I’d be happy to offer critiques of chapters.

    1. Nynaeve*

      Oooh, didn’t I see you on Scalzi’s Big Idea? *checks* Yep! Your book was one I definitely wanted to read, so I’ll bump that up on the list.

      I like the site–it looks very clean and simple, definitely more modern than your previous site. The tagline is provocative and catchy. There’s not a ton there yet, obviously, but I know that will change. Jenna Moreci on YouTube has a lot of advice on book marketing and even a Skillshare class on author platforms, so she may be someone to check out in terms of ideas for increasing engagement with your readers.

      I may take you up on chapter critiques once I get off my lazy (but callipygous) bum and write! Let me know the best way to get in touch with you.

      1. Claire*

        Oh, my! Yes, that was me on Scalzi’s Big Idea. Second book comes out this July, and I just turned in a proposal for a possible third book in the series. We’ll see how that goes. :)

        And THANK YOU for the feedback and for pointing me toward Jenna Moreci. This is so very helpful. Whenever you’re ready for a critique, you can get in touch with me at claireodell99 AT gmail.com.

        1. Nynaeve*

          Excellent! I’ll write that down.

          I took another look at the site and noticed a few more things:

          *The covers weren’t clickable. I assume this is coming, since they were clickable on your previous site, but definitely make it easier for people to find out more information (and obviously, buy!).
          *Maybe put hyperlinks to the book series pages in the descriptions on the main page. So: “My new SF/Mystery series, The Janet Watson Chronicles [link to Janet Watson Chronicles page]…” That way it’s easy for people to find out what books are in the series and what order they go in.
          *I noticed River of Souls didn’t have book covers or a description of the series on the series page, only blurbs. Again, also include links to buy the books.
          *The site looked pretty good on mobile. The only issue I noticed was that the site tagline got split strangely because of screen size: “LIVING IN AN ALTERN / ATE FUTURE.” Not sure why it does this or what the fix is, but someone more techy will probably have a good idea.

          You have a really impressive back catalog and list of awards, so I think you have a decent shot of making some money with shrewd marketing. If you have time, you can start increasing your presence at local SF/F cons, library events, talks at local bookstores or to local writing groups, or whatever makes sense for you. Good luck!

          1. Claire*

            Thank you for the feedback!

            Yes, the River of Souls page is still under construction. These were first published under my real name, but now that I have the rights back, I want to re-issue them with new covers and using my pen name. So much time, so little to do! Wait, reverse that.

      1. Claire*

        Thank you! I’m using the switch from old to new website to learn about WordPress, and now I’m kicking myself for not making the switch years ago.

    3. Electric Sheep*

      I have some feedback on your website for your consideration (I’m on mobile). I think 2 & 3 are the most important points.
      1. The front page suggests you have two series, but looking at your book list there seems to be some unrelated short story collections too, so I’d mention those on the front page as well.
      2. I found the books list under the menu heading hard to navigate, because it was difficult to see which books were in what series, both from the menu and on the pages. Some text at the start of the page to give that context and link to the related books would be good.
      3. Can you include a sample from the books on the description pages? I find that very useful when deciding if I’m interested in a book.
      4. Your book covers have a different name on them but this isn’t addressed on the front page/ elsewhere that I could see.
      5. On mobile, the first few words of the book blurb sits up to the right of the cover image and then there’s a big break and the text continues under the image.

      I wasn’t sure whether to mention this or not but the blurb for your second Watson book is a bit spoilery for the first one – maybe reword or put a warning or move the book onto a seperate page, I read the blurb for the first book and then read on and was spoiled before I knew what was happening.

      1. Claire*

        Thank you! This is very helpful.

        I think I’ve addressed the main issue with #2 by adding the individual book titles under the series name, both on the bibliography page and the books page. I need to contact my publisher to see what they prefer for a series description. (Marketing controls all that.)

        Yes, I need to add samples. Thank you for the reminder!

        For #4, does this apply to all the blurbs, or any particular books that you noticed?

        Again, I appreciate your taking the time to look at my site and make comments.

    4. Troutwaxer*

      I’ll be happy to take your trade. I’m using Firefox on Ubuntu Linux 16.04 The page generally looks very nice, and is certainly “production ready.” Aside from one minor issue, the site is very easy to read. All the problems I’m seeing are minor and a little nitpicky, and with one exception, they’re all at the top of the page, as follows:

      1.) At the very top, left corner of the page, the “C” in “CLAIRE O’DELL” is inside a blue-green box. The box is too wide, and it looks like your name is “C LAIRE O’DELL.”

      2.) In the same area, the dash in “Claire O’Dell—Living in an Alter­nate Future” is too long and I found it distracting. (Visually, I prefer a space-dash-space approach myself even though it’s arguably ungrammatical.) This looks like it might be a font issue.

      3.) There is a big dash at the top under the word “Future” and above the word “Home.” I think this is an artifact associated with the word “Home” rather than some kind of dash or divider, because it moves to the top of the page if I widen my browser, so I’d expect some kind of problem with the CSS. Also this artifact is not centered on the page, which makes things look a little unbalanced. There’s a similar funny artifact below the “Books” section, but only when I mouse over it.

      4.) I think the top of the page would be better balanced if the phrase “Claire O’Dell—Living in an Alter­nate Future” was the same length as the “Home, Blog, Bibliography…” menu.

      5.) I think the main font for the page is generally too light. I’m over fifty, and I have just a little trouble tracking it. IMHO it needs very slightly thicker letters, though the general effect is very nice.

      6.) The graphical bar under the “Home, Blog, Bibliography” menu feels too heavy. This might be fixed by making the letters slightly thicker as I note above, or you might want to find bar with lighter/more pastel colors. Essentially, the bar is too heavy and contrasts poorly with the generally “light” feeling of the rest of the design.

      The same issues are apparent when I view the page with Chrome. Everything else about the page looks very, very nice.

      1. Claire*

        Thank you! I’m sorry for missing your feedback earlier. I really appreciate the suggestions. (And nitpicks are good!)

  172. Stuff*

    I’m wondering if it’s too late to report seriously inappropriate behavior from my boss, such as disparaging comments about how I need to lose weight snd directly criticizing things he sees me eating, and constant comments about how us Millenials are the worst generation, if I’m currently out the door due to my own failings as an employee? I’m resigning in acknowledgement of my own personal incompetance, which isn’t my boss’s fault, but I’m worried actually broaching the topic of my boss will sound like an employee who is leaving for cause trying to do damage on the way out.

    1. Adminx2*

      No it’s not too late, but you don’t have any real standing to be taken seriously. If you do have an exit interview you can say “I recognize I was not a good fit for this position and failed to meet the responsibilities but I do want it noted that repeated comments about my weight and food intake and making insults against millennials really created a very uncomfortable environment.”
      But if you don’t have the opportunity, then you don’t. Move on and next time you can speak up.

      1. Claire*

        To repeat what Adminx2 said, even if you had failings as an employee, a *good* company wants to know if their managers are failing themselves. An exit interview is the best way, but if your company doesn’t provide for one, you could consider writing a very neutral, facts-only email to HR. (And even if you do get an exit interview, keep the feedback neutral.)

    3. Troutwaxer*

      Your boss sounds hypercritical. I’m tempted to question your self-assessment as being incompetent. Are you really having problems, or have you internalized his criticism?

  173. calicheez*

    I work in a frontline fundraising role for a nonprofit. In addition to a dollar goal, each of us has meeting goals we have to meet. All frontline staff has their own portfolios and typically meets their donors solo – unless another fundraiser is handing someone off or you’re bringing along someone from another dept. to talk about programming, etc. Recently, my boss has been inviting herself along to my meetings. I don’t mind it every once in a while but it’s been almost every meeting recently. I can’t help but feel like I’m doing something “wrong” to suddenly need a chaperone. I’ve been sent out of state alone to visit donors and am consistent in meeting my goals so I can’t think of an incident that would have inspired this. Also it’s not like her #s are hurting and she needs to cash in on my meetings – she’s way closer to her goal than I am. Can I politely ask why she’s coming and request that she not join so many? Or do I have to just suck it up?

    1. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

      As a fellow frontline fundraiser, I feel your pain. Three way meetings are so awkward!! I would ask what her goal is in attending these meetings; I’m sure your donors are asking, so you need to be able to explain why they’re suddenly meeting with two people instead of one.

      It could be a performance concern, but it also could be more like a check in on your style, or her taking the temperature of donors in the area, or her thinking this is good management. Fundraising is hard because it does happen in one on one meetings most of the time, so I can see how a director would want to be physically present to observe how you handle meetings. Or it could be something else entirely!

      I don’t think that you can request she not join so many meetings (unless it’s a specific donor and a specific reason – some people don’t respond well to meetings with more than one fundraiser, for example) but you can certainly ask to learn more about her rationale.

      1. Sloan Kittering*

        You can definitely push back a little if your numbers are getting docked or shared though, for the record. If the boss “scoops” half your proceeds and you start looking bad in comparison to other fundraisers, this is something you can respectfully raise.

      2. calicheez*

        exciting to see another fundraiser on here! and right?! nothing like making a donor feel overwhelmed…

        good point about checking on my style or trying to take the temperature of my portfolio. i do have to remind myself that she is tangentially responsible for my goals too. there is one meeting in particular that i’d really like to go alone too (i have a great rapport with him and it would be so awkward to randomly have another person in the mix) so i might respectfully ask to do that one by myself and try to learn more about her reasons at the same time.

        thank you so much!

    2. Adminx2*

      Next time she invites herself you can say “Traditionally I do these solo and really feel that’s been working great. Is there something specific you think needs to be included?”

      It may be she’s avoiding going home and nothing to do with work. This brings up the topic, states your preference and makes her give SOME reason. She might be affable and say “Oh no I just like being more involved on the ground!” and you may have to risk stating your preference more directly or just acquiescing.

      1. Sloan Kittering*

        Even if she says that, if she’s only doing it to you, I’d try to gently probe further. If she wanted to be more on the ground she’d be doing it equally to all fundraisers.

        1. calicheez*

          definitely! i’m the only junior fundraiser that reports directly to her so it would be harder for her to invite herself on other people’s meetings – although i wouldn’t be surprised if she’s trying and i just don’t know about it.

      2. calicheez*

        this is a great point, she’s one of those people who is constantly working – sending non time sensitive emails at like 10pm, etc. so she might just genuinely want to be involved on the ground. at least this will suss out if it is performance based on my end – thanks!

  174. Lalaith*

    I found out this week that my favorite coworker is leaving :( Everyone is pretty cool here, but we mostly seem to be huge introverts, and the person who’s leaving is the most outgoing and friendly of all of us (and really shares my sense of humor), so I’m going to miss him. Sigh.

    1. Bostonian*

      I feel ya. My department recently lost 2 of the most friendly/likable/outgoing people in an otherwise introverted department. Still kinda miss them, but we’ve hired some new great people, so maybe the same will happen to you guys!

    2. calicheez*

      oh man, my condolences – that really changes your day to day. hopefully you can remain friendly with favorite coworker outside the office! and maybe someone gregarious will be hired in his place.

  175. Me--Blargh!*

    Updates:

    –The job I wanted in BiggerCity rejected me a week after the phone interview. I thought it had gone well; I guess they found someone local (they said they needed someone soon, but they also said they were looking for a good fit). I’m only three hours away, not three states away, folks. :P I applied for two more over there. *sigh* I’m getting tired of applying only to be completely dismissed, probably because I’ve been unemployed so long. In fact, I’m starting to get that as a question, which I can only answer by saying I’m not sure, my former employer is rather high-end in this area, and I suspect people think I’d not stay in the job. I don’t know what else to say.

    –Job with the hot boss totally ghosted me. Fine; it had no healthcare anyway.

    –I applied for a proofreader job in NYC; there is no way in hell I will ever get it or that it will pay enough to live on (and how the hell would I move there?). But it popped up at random, and I fangirl hard over their *product,* so I threw my hat in the ring anyway. They said they were looking for enthusiasm, so I used the words “heaven,” “thrilled,” and “geek” in the cover letter, hahahaha. What the hell have I got to lose? Nothing.

    1. WellRed*

      Well that sucks. As to when interviewers ask you about the lengthy unemployment, can you shift it toward, “…but I am really interested in this opportunity because blah blah blah”?

    2. Rusty Shackelford*

      In fact, I’m starting to get that as a question, which I can only answer by saying I’m not sure, my former employer is rather high-end in this area, and I suspect people think I’d not stay in the job. I don’t know what else to say.

      See, to me, this is an odd answer to this particular question. Odd enough that it would make me think “that’s clearly not what’s going on; I wonder what she’s hiding?” It would be different if you still worked at High End Job and they were concerned they wouldn’t be able to lure you away. But you’re not there any more. Potential employers aren’t competing with them. I’d try “The job market in MyTown is not very good. That’s why I’ve decided to relocate to YourTown as soon as I find a job here.” (No one needs to know this decision isn’t recent and that you’ve already applied for many jobs outside of MyTown.)

      (Also, I’m dying to see Hot Boss.)

      1. CheeryO*

        Yeah, you have to give yourself permission to lie a bit while still acknowledging the gap. My boyfriend was unemployed for two years, and his luck drastically turned (like, from zero offers to three within a couple weeks) when he started acknowledging the gap in interviews and explaining that (1) he was committed to finding a job where we had roots (for local jobs, even though we weren’t actually that tied to the area) or that (2) he had just recently decided to expand his search to X city because he was looking to relocate and had friends/family there (regardless if that was true).

        1. Me--Blargh!*

          That’s hard because I don’t particularly want to live in BiggerCity, although I have been including in cover letters that I’m looking to move there to be closer to family (I really want to go far far far far away from this entire STATE, but obviously I can’t say that, LOL). If I could find a job there that paid fairly well, I’d be okay with it if it would get me out of here (I wouldn’t say that either). I’m a good liar, though, when I can be bothered. I write fiction so I ought to be!

          I guess I could say, “I know; it’s been a while. The job market here isn’t very good, which is why I’m looking to relocate to BiggerCity as soon as I find a job there [as Rusty suggested]. I’m really eager to get back to work!” (This is not a lie; I am sick of this couch!)

          One job I applied to is an HR assistant (I never get called for these, not ever, even though I have skills they could use), and the other is a project assistant. I feel like I could be more enthusiastic over that one, but I was hoping the HR job company will call me because they have much better perks and are closer to where I’d actually want to live over there. I would have to curb my enthusiasm over the NYC one because I would squeal like a little girl if they actually called me.*

          *they won’t

      2. Me--Blargh!*

        I guess I could try that wording. IF I even get a response. No one wants someone they have to wait for if they have to move. It’s only 200 miles. I’m not on another planet! Some people have told me to move first. But I can’t find housing without a job, so how would I even do that?

        I feel like I’m caught between Scylla and Charybdis. I can’t do the upper-level admin jobs because they involve a lot of math. The lower-level jobs here also involve a lot of math, because they’re small companies who want one admin to do everything, including their books. And I’ve been told by the commentariat not to tell anyone I have a disability until I get an offer. So I really don’t know what the hell I’m supposed to say. But I need a job before I can do anything to bump up my skills to get out of admin work, because I’m out of options that don’t cost money.

        (Hot Boss looked like if young Brad Pitt and Jensen Ackles had a baby, if that gives you any idea. Also married. The few hot men here are already taken because everybody here gets married at twelve. :P )

        1. Rusty Shackelford*

          I guess I could try that wording. IF I even get a response. No one wants someone they have to wait for if they have to move.

          Doesn’t your mother live in one of the cities where you’re applying? Could you use her address on your resume, so it looks like you’re already there? Or don’t include an address at all?

          Hot Boss looked like if young Brad Pitt and Jensen Ackles had a baby, if that gives you any idea

          THAT’S WHAT YOU TOLD US, AND THAT’S WHY I WANT TO SEE HIM. I AM ONLY HUMAN.

          1. Me--Blargh!*

            I didn’t take a picture of him! LOL!

            She does live there, but I would still have to move. I cannot commute three hours one way. I don’t want to lie about that (I might if it were only an hour), and I cannot live with her for reasons. I don’t put my address on my resume–but I do have the city, and it’s also confusing because my Google Voice number is a Los Angeles area code (wishful thinking, haha). I usually just say, “I’m writing you from LittleCity, but I’m looking to relocate to BiggerCity to be near family in the Suburb area, so I hope you’ll consider me.”

            This whole thing is beyond stupid. I need to win the lottery or something. Jeez Louise.

            1. valentine*

              If it’s worth getting the job, use your mom’s address and imply you’ll stay with her until you find a place.

              Write a cover letter for California, then translate your dreams and desires to BiggerCity and add that to your cover letters.

  176. Anonymeece*

    How normal is this?

    I have a feeling it’s going to come down to “office culture” but just in case… For context, my manager is kind of controlling. She has a very different idea of the upper administration than the rest of my colleagues and I do, and I’m not sure if that comes down to that we’re not actually privy to things, or if her version is skewed. We joke because inevitably, if she is friends with someone, she’ll suddenly have an about-turn and decide they’re awful, so she has an extensive list of people she dislikes.

    Recently my boss was invited to a presentation with the VP and some other upper admins at my boss’s level. She couldn’t make it, so she sent me, and apparently trusted me to do the job (and I did).

    However, I recently was having a problem with X in another department. X was asked to help on something and declined. When I informed his supervisor, who originally tapped him for the project, that X had refused, I got a reply back that supervisor had spoken with X and had informed him that the project was mandatory. So I sent an invite to X for the first meeting, which was then refused again. At this point, I figured it was a personnel issue, so I forwarded the rejection to X’s supervisor and just basically said, “How would you like me to proceed?”.

    My boss found out and flipped out on me and told me that she trusted me, but I needed to CC her on every email that went to someone at her level or above (I report directly to her, so basically anyone not on my level). I was uncomfortable with this, because quite frankly, I wouldn’t want someone knowing if I were in trouble at work; I’d rather that be just between me and my boss. She says she doesn’t want to be caught off-guard, which I get, but to me this is between X and his supervisor, and again, I can’t help but think that if I were in that situation, I wouldn’t want other departments to know about it.

    Is this weirdly controlling or pretty normal? I’ve worked here for over five years, I’m fantastic at communication, and aside from one misstep about a year ago, I’ve never done anything that would make anyone distrust my professionalism (the misstep was an honest mistake that I freely admitted and have never repeated).

    1. ThatGirl*

      I totally understand your instinct, but I think going to your manager and asking her how to proceed might have been the better choice. It’s not about being in trouble, it’s about managers talking to managers. I think your boss might have overreacted, but it’s covering your ass and hers.

    2. MonteCristo85*

      IMO, this is the kind of thing you should at least let your boss know about, so that if the other boss comes to them about it, they aren’t out of the loop. It’s part of your job to keep your manager informed and not looking bad to others.

      I think copying them on every email is a bit much, but if you aren’t already keeping them in the loop on things, they may have gotten frustrated and overreacted.

  177. Ladylike*

    Happy Friday everyone! I just got an email from the Director my boss reports to, who resides out of state in our corporate office. saying he’ll be in town in a couple of weeks. He would like to any needs I have in my position, give me an opportunity to bounce ideas off of him, and maybe go to lunch. I’ve never met him face to face and I’ve been with the company 7 months, so this is kind of our first “meet and greet” too.

    He seems like a great guy and leader, always upbeat and flexible, and gives lots of recognition. I know all of you can’t give me industry-specific advice here, but I’d love to hear any tips you have for making the most of this 1:1 time and impressing my grand-boss. :)

  178. jfc*

    is this normal? i’ve witnessed this scenario in two separate groups within one year: a coworker, who does sloppy work, complains a lot or say means things about people behind their back, doesnt seem to be in serious trouble because they have an outgoing personality and are good friends with the boss (or the boss’s wife)?

    i’m bitter because i’m the one who has to clean up the mess (because at the end of the day the boss only cares that they look good in front of their boss) and, on a personal level, due to my non-physical disability and generally low social status, these two coworkers have openly spoken to me in a disrespectful way.

    1. Jessen*

      Ugh we had one of those at last job. Good friends with the boss’s boss, actually did pretty good work, but complained about everyone all the time. And it was a very collaborative job, open-office by necessity (we actually needed to talk back and forth), so you couldn’t get away.

    2. Sloan Kittering*

      I do think that in many offices (and even schools) pleasant, well liked, “popular” people can get away with poor performance for a lot longer than somebody who is perceived as weird or unlikable. It shouldn’t happen but it’s human nature. But I guess I’ve always just seen that as a reason to put extra effort in trying to seem pleasant, friendly and engaged.

    3. Kathenus*

      Suggest that you stop ‘cleaning up the mess’ – guessing this maybe means that you fix their sloppy work? If that’s the case, let them have their own consequences. Maybe the personality and friendships are helping your coworker, but let their shoddy work be part of their package as well so their bosses can evaluate them as a whole. Don’t bail them out.

  179. Commenter*

    Any chance we can get a commenting system that allows email notifications? I can’t keep checking old posts just to see if anyone’s responded to me. This system is pretty sub-par. Surely there’s some WP plugin or something?

    1. noahwynn*

      That used to be an option actually. I’m not sure when it went away. Maybe when Alison moved to WP from Blogspot? Although I don’t think it was that long ago. Also, I’ve been around way too long.

      1. noahwynn*

        Oh, and also it wasn’t super helpful because it wasn’t just comments on a single thread you’d get emails about, it would be the entire post. So, for these open posts it would be 1500+ emails depending on when you subscribed.

    2. Ladylike*

      I would love to see that too. I turned on email alerts once and got an alert every time anyone commented on the Friday open post…not helpful at all. Even a search feature to quickly find my own posts would be great.

      1. noahwynn*

        If you type “Ladylike site:askamanger.org” into Google you can see all the posts with your username. You can even use search tools to reduce it to within the last week or month. I then use Ctrl+F to search in the individual posts to find my comments. Sometimes it is interesting to see old comments and discussions.

      2. Elizabeth Proctor*

        You can do find your own posts if you’re using chrome (probably other browsers too). Make sure you have all comments expanded, then ctrl+F and type in your user name.

      3. fposte*

        I just use browser search for my own posts. Obviously that works best if your username is fairly distinctive.

      4. Marthooh*

        I just type my username in the site searchbox, with the Set collapse all as default box unchecked. It’s just above the comment section. I’m using Safari on mobile, btw.

    3. Ask a Manager* Post author

      I’ve tried! The plugins that do it break other things; I don’t think they’re designed to work with a site with this much comment traffic. To get it working, I’d have to completely change commenting systems and this one is the best of a bunch of bad options.

  180. noahwynn*

    So my company is merging two offices in the same metro area together. I currently work at the “operations” office, which is on site at the airport and contains the departments that are directly responsible for running the airline. There is “headquarters” office in a suburb that has support departments and executive leadership. They are planning to remodel and expand the airport office and move everyone over here.

    In theory it seems like a great plan and I’m sure eventually it will work out. However, the two offices have very different cultures. At headquarters they don’t eat at their desk, ever, it is always in the breakroom. We have a small breakroom but it is common to eat at our desk. Their offices are generally very quiet, while ours are louder.

    We are also moving to a more open-plan office. We will still have cubicles but the walls will be lower. There are also going to be way fewer private offices, so many that have an office now will be booted out into cubicles.

    No real question, but I’m not looking forward to the culture clash and am hoping there is none of the “it was our space first” battles.

  181. Hidden Trout*

    I’m a finalist for a job with an all-day interview on Tuesday!

    I’m incredibly nervous, because as part of the interview I have to do a 50 minute live demonstration with a group of people I’ve never met, and there’s no telling how they’ll react. Yikes. So far, everyone has been great–this is the place where my would-be supervisor wrote a thank you letter to me after our initial phone conversation, which went well over an hour. I know enough (I’ve been a finalist 4 times over the past 2 years and still no offers) to know that they are probably acting equally encouragingly to the other finalists. Still, this is the first time I’ve ever really felt like an equal in my job-search, and I was able to ask questions and interview them right back, which they welcomed. That’s so rare in my profession, where most organizations expect and demand employees to be a little deferential.

    Anyway, I wanted to thank Allison and the rest of the community. I have followed the advice here every step of the way in my job search, and get a lot of positive feedback on my cover letters, resume, and follow-up notes. I also have a much better sense of what is and is not normal in the workplace. Thank you, all!

  182. AnonAnon for this*

    I’m at BEC stage with one of my bosses. But the other one is amazing. Actually, all my coworkers are. I have never worked with a better bunch of people. I’ve never loved a job this much and both my bosses have made it clear that they value me and have done A LOT to keep me happy. I do a ridiculous amount of work – it’s not that I don’t deserve it. It’s just that I have been struggling on and off for over a year with this dissonance: BEC boss and, well, everything else that’s really good. Oh, and on a personal level I really respect, admire, and like my more difficult boss (DB). But I know from previous experience that it still really sucks working for someone who is a mess professionally, regardless of how they are personally. In fact, I once worked for a boss that I disliked both personally and professionally and that was so much easier for me to walk away from at the end of each day.

    Sorry, I feel this may not be very coherent, but I just needed to vent. I am job-hunting and I’ve got a couple of great leads, but it’s gotten to the stage where I’m probably not going to be as fussy about opportunities as I was before. I am going to start becoming less effective at my job where I have a fantastic track record because I just cannot get through to my DB that her behavior is not reasonable, and I am starting to get resentful or get high anxiety any time we communicate. Just this week I developed some physical symptoms to the stress that are making it really hard to get a full night’s sleep, which of course is exacerbating the overall stress I feel during the day.

    Note: DB knows she’s difficult to work with and she does try to improve but it sadly is nowhere near enough. It’s also kind of amazing that I have lasted as long as I have, working so closely with her (a variation of this has been said to me by several people).

    I know it’s time to leave. I’m actually okay with that. I’m just sad. My other boss was just the sweetest to me this morning and a new person just started and they are so excited about this genuinely great firm with a fantastic mission (they will not be working with DB)… So, yeah, just sad. I really wanted to stay here a bit longer. Also, I feel bad that DB’s messiness is causing a good employee to leave. They used to keep her from having too much to do with certain staff members but because I was so good at managing messy people (done it from childhood), this didn’t happen for me – and I’ve had enough. I’m almost tempted to tell the other boss they need to return to keeping DB from working too closely with staff again. Even if I don’t, it’s a big lesson learned for me. Dysfunctional people have no place in my day-to-day life anymore.

    No advice needed. Just needed to get all that out there.

    1. Dust Bunny*

      Yeah, I’d tell them. They’re losing a good employee because they didn’t rein this person in themselves: They let her underlings absorb it instead.

    2. SaaSyPaaS*

      Do you think it would make sense to have a conversation with your good boss to let her know how the stress of dealing with DB is affecting you? It sounds like they do truly value you and your work and know how bad DB is, so they might be able to do something about it. If not, then you don’t have to be sad at all about looking. You should not have to be dealing with stress like this, especially where it’s affecting you physically.

  183. Amerdale*

    I am about to start searching for a new job.

    One of the reasons why is that for about half the month I have hardly any work to do, while the other half is packed more than full and this uneven distribution is driving me crazy. I’m either overworked or bored to death (and supposed to sit at my desk and look as if I am busy, I can even just read a novel or something like that) but never on a reasonable middle ground. And of course I want to avoid that scenario in my future job.

    So my question: How do I ask about that in a job interview without sounding as if I am just lazy and want to work as little as possible?

    1. KayEss*

      I’m in a very project-oriented field, and when I was searching it was very easy to ask questions about how long a typical project cycle was, how many projects an individual employee was usually involved in at once, how projects were distributed and progress on them was monitored, etc. Not sure how you’d translate that into a field that’s more continuous, but I think it’s also okay to just ask outright if the work has times that are regularly busier than others when you’re asking about what a typical day/week looks like for the position–the job I’m in now is closely tied to a fixed annual cycle most of our clients have, and in the interview I asked about when their busiest times were.

      Most reasonable employers are going to understand preferring a steady stream of work over an unpredictable cycle of boredom and crunch.

  184. sadmom*

    I am expecting my first and completely dismayed by the poor maternity leave benefits here in the states. I am in NY and covered by the Paid Family Leave Act so I will be receiving 10 weeks of leave at 55% of my salary. I know this is much more than some people get but this is the “best” in the nation and it’s severely lacking. I was hoping to use my accrued sick and vacation time to extend my leave by an additional 2 weeks and it was denied. Just super bummed I won’t be spending any extra time with my little one and my heart goes out to all the mommas that get even less time with their babes.

    1. Overeducated*

      I’m sorry. It stinks and it makes me so mad sometimes that this is the best we think we can do for parents and children that I can’t even think about it too much. I’m only covered by FMLA, and can use accrued leave concurrently to be paid while on FMLA, but have no paid maternity leave as such. I’m glad yours is partially paid but it seems outrageous that you can’t tack on your accrued leave. You might have already thought of this, but can you try to invoke FMLA for those 2 weeks and take them unpaid?

    2. WellRed*

      I gotta be honest, I think your company is the bigger problem here. It’s very common for people who csn manage it to take a full 12 weeks. Denying you two? What’s up with that?

      1. sadmom*

        My company cited a “business need” for the denial, whatever that means. They did say they can allow me to use my accrued time to bring my salary up to 100% during my leave but the money isn’t the issue. I want to spend time with my kid.

        1. valentine*

          Are you the only one who can do your job? I’m wondering if it’s worth it to push back if you can sort of find your own coverage. Is there anyone above you in the chain of command who’s taken maternity leave or might be supportive? Even people who save lives can take two weeks off.

          I was going to suggest taking the money, just in case, but what if, after two or three weeks, you use your leave to take off every other Monday (or comparable day in your schedule) and have long weekends with Baby?

  185. How to Pick a Job in 10 Days*

    Any suggestions on evaluating a standalone job offer without being able to check out other opportunities? The place I’m interviewing with seems great and the interview process has been moving rapidly. The people are great, the projects are interesting, and they have multiple locations in areas that I’d like to work. Let’s call them XYZ.

    The problem? This popped up before I officially started my job search. Since I’m not planning on staying in my town, I had planned on waiting a couple months before starting my job search so that I wouldn’t have to pay hefty fees for breaking my lease (I can switch to month-to-month if I don’t have a new job by the time my lease ends).

    Usually when I job hunt, I check out a variety of companies. But if I start applying at places in other cities now, I probably wouldn’t get far in the process before getting an offer from XYZ. Plus, applying now to companies would indicate that I’m ready to relocate now, so I’d be back to paying a hefty fee for breaking my lease (Any relocation assistance I might receive will be small).

    I guess I just feel a little lost without having anything to compare this too. When I interview with one-off places, I usually just have to compare them to my current job. But I’ve already decided to leave my current job, so I’m just comparing this place to itself. Assuming salary/benefits check out and a time table to move to one of their other locations is in the offer (its been indicated it will be). My current job seemed like a great opportunity but has turned out to be terrible, so I’m nervous about making the same mistake again.

  186. Not the Bumper Sticker Police*

    Here’s an update about my employee that I wrote about before. Y’know, the one who makes everything A Cause and finds very odd hills to die on?
    This week our Big Boss bought gourmet cupcakes for everyone on Valentine’s Day. They were put in the break room. Charming Employee of Mine quickly fired off an email reminding people that Valentines Day is a “horrible holiday as it excludes single people and those who don’t identify as cisgender!”

    Yeah.
    One of her peers replied all “No worries! I’ll eat your cupcake!”

    And now she’s upset because someone was “insensitive” to her.

        1. Not the Bumper Sticker Police*

          Yes. Verbally and in writing. She’s getting another “memo to stop” today after the Valentine’s Day fit.

          It would’ve been Friday, but she was out. She likes to be out on Mondays and Fridays.

    2. KayEss*

      Heck, if I was on that email chain, I’d go out and buy that peer an extra cupcake for their A+ response.

    3. Joielle*

      Ha! Maybe I’m just not woke enough, but I don’t understand how Valentine’s Day excludes trans and non-binary people…? They can be in love too! Did she explain the rationale for that one?

      1. Rusty Shackelford*

        In fact, it seems like *she’s* the one excluding them, by assuming they’d have no reason to observe Valentine’s Day.

        2. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

          This was my thought, too. Only cis-het people have valentines (or perhaps eat cupcakes?). News to me!

      2. Youth*

        It doesn’t necessarily exclude single people, either. Some Latin American countries call it a day of “love and friendship.” You can love people in a non-romantic way, and most people have friends!

    4. WellRed*

      Hilarious! Single person here. She is just never going to be happy. So please continue to provide us with regular updates on her complaints.

    5. LilySparrow*

      You could reassure her that the company observes the True Meaning of Valentine’s day, which isn’t about romance at all, but about the beheading of martyrs.

      I’m sure that would make her feel much, much better.

    6. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      Any chance you can start celebrating random non traditional holidays just to see what her response is?

      Because yeah… your employee is something else.

      And love the response from the peer!

  187. OldJobBurnout*

    Does anyone else ever want to post a public rant of all the bat crazy things they put up with at their old job? For everyone who knows their old bosses to see? I know it wouldn’t be professional, but sometimes I just want to highlight it to get this anger off my chest.

    1. CheeryO*

      reddit.com/r/offmychest

      Not as satisfying as a true public airing of grievances, but it’s something!

    2. Roy G. Biv*

      Please post it here for our collective amusement and/or amazement. I am convinced that Bad Bosses, Bad Management and Bad Jobs never think it’s about them. It’s always you, Long Suffering Employee.

    3. Claire*

      Yes, lord love a duck, yes, I would.

      If you feel comfortable, vent away, and we’re here to support you.

  188. apopculturalist*

    So my boss left on sabattical for several months this year, and I served in his role during the interim time. Before he left, he told me “Come Jan. 1, you’ll get a check for $10,000” as a bonus for my extra work.

    Upon hearing that, would you assume that is pre or post-tax? Based on the phrasing, I honestly assumed it was post-tax, i.e. I would get $10,000. But looking at my paychecks, it was pre-tax, which means I only get just shy of $6K, which is super disappointing. Any advice?

    1. Psyche*

      I would assume pre-tax. Most salary/compensation is stated as pre-tax because post-tax is dependent on your deductions and tax bracket. You may be able to recoup some of that when you file your taxes.

    2. LNLN*

      I would have assumed the $10,000 was pre-tax, because my regular pay is pre-tax. Sorry for your disappointment!

      2. Sloan Kittering*

        It’s true, all our salary conversations are pre-tax, which significantly inflates what you are actually going to see in your paycheck (of course, it’s impossible to speak to somebody else’s tax situation so it makes sense). Your boss erred in saying “a check for 10K” which was the confusing a part there.

    3. MoopySwarpet*

      “A check for” does make it sound like it might be post-tax, but it could also mean a check with no taxes withheld. It would be much worse (IMO) to get blindsided over a year from now with extra tax that never got withheld.

    5. n*

      I’d assume pre-tax. Also, to keep in mind is how they are classifying the pay. I’m assuming this would be considered a bonus. There are 2 ways bonuses can be taxed: either a flat 25% tax, or the bonus is thrown in with your regular pay and taxed according to whatever tax bracket you’d end up in after that. The former usually results in a higher tax rate.

    6. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      That’s pretty normal. I would have assumed pre-tax as well. My advice, enjoy the $6K :)

  189. FloralsForever*

    Does anyone know if we should receive notice if possible new tenants walk through our office?

    We will be moving offices in a a few months and possible new tenants are touring. We receive no notice. I know for residences in my state there is a 24 hour notice rule. This is concerning because all of us work with sensitive information on our screens. Should we receive notice, legally? (And we’ve asked the office manager to let us know, but he is notorious for ignoring requests.)

    1. Psyche*

      Is the landlord not notifying the office manager, or is the office manager not notifying everyone else?

  190. Nynaeve*

    How do you know whether it’s time to move on when the job you love has changed, but it might get better soon… but it also might not?

    Last year, the director of our university library retired. Her interim replacement was, to put it mildly, not great. We’re basically under a communication blackout–I think I could count the number of staff meetings we had in the past year on one hand. The new university president has proposed a bunch of wrong-headed design changes to the library (let’s get rid of most of the books and put a gym in) and the interim director has not pushed back at all or asked any of the staff for feedback.

    The university finally finished interviews for a full-time director. Two of the candidates are promising and would definitely push back against the worst of the changes (even if they couldn’t ultimately prevent them). The third candidate is the interim director, and she basically doubled down on supporting the proposed changes. We are waiting to hear the provost’s decision (oh, and there is also a search for a new provost) and the suspense is killing me. There’s going to be upheaval no matter what; the question is whether things will be better on the flip side.

    I’ve been in my position about five years and it’s my second library position. I would be reasonably competitive on the market, but the competition is pretty fierce and I can’t guarantee that a new job I went into wouldn’t face the same issues or worse. (People love trying to get rid of libraries!) This job has been the best job I ever had. But I have been feeling a kind of malaise over the past year and I don’t know how much of it is the stress of the transition and how much of it is that it’s time for something new anyway. (And if it’s time for something new… how do I know what that is?)

    Thoughts? Advice?

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      It never hurts to look! If you can’t find a better situation, you can stay where you are, so it’s a win-win. I also find that looking sometimes makes me more grateful and contented with what I have haha.

      2. Nynaeve*

        I have been paying more attention to the postings that come through on listservs. And I had to update my CV anyway because one of the colleges I support needed it for accreditation purposes, so nothing suspicious there! :D

    2. dear liza dear liza*

      Also, as a veteran of similar wars- I’ve never seen a director successfully beat back a university president for long. Unless the president is on his way out, expect things to get worse.

      Academic librarian searches take a long time, so you might as well start looking. Even if you find a job ad that is appealing, it will take months for the search committee to screen applicants and invite people to campus; by the time you got to that stage, you’d have a much better idea of what direction your campus is headed in.

      1. Nynaeve*

        Yes, that’s what I was afraid of! Thanks for the honesty. The president has been here about two years and isn’t exactly making a lot of friends, so he’s facing an uphill battle, but that doesn’t necessarily compute to “on his way out.” We’ll see, I guess!

    3. WellRed*

      Not an answer to your question but I can’t help but wonder how the larger university community feels about replacing part of the library with a gym? If it’s not publicly known, drop a news tip to the student paper if there is one, for starters. Watch what ensues.
      Signed, Former student newspaper editor. English major.

      1. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

        Yeah this seems insane to me. A university needs books, no? Research facilities are kind of their USP.

        1. Nynaeve*

          It’s not like they’d get rid of the entire collection. And it’s not a typical library–it’s all graduate students and specialized in a discipline that leans more heavily toward journals than books, so we *could* theoretically serve the campus with primarily electronic collections. That said, some of the colleges do have library collections and library services embedded in their accreditation standards, so we can push back to some extent based on that.

          To answer WellRed’s question, it isn’t broadly known that these changes are potentially coming. In fact, one of the other candidates (my current boss) actually slipped the proposed floor plans to the deans because they weren’t informed either. (There isn’t a student newspaper because it’s all graduate programs.) The process has been shady as heck. There was a redesign committee, but there weren’t any library staff members on it besides the director (and only a few students). The strategic planning committee actually didn’t tell the redesign committee that a meeting they thought was a regular meeting was actually the last one. So they basically took people’s thoughts and were like, “We’re done now, kthxbai!”

          It’s, uh… a hot mess.

    4. Claire*

      It can’t hurt to look, and Doing Something might ease the stress. (This is what I’m telling my spouse.)

      1. Nynaeve*

        That’s what I’ve been telling myself, too. I look a lot more impressive on paper than I feel inside my own head!

  191. Critique my email*

    Currently we’re sending accounting documents twice, by email through the software and a hard copy in the mail. I’d like to eliminate the hard copies, partially because we’re touting ourselves as a sustainability-focused company but mostly because printing and mailing them is a pain in the ass time-waster. Does this email sound good?

    “In an effort to improve our sustainability, we’re trying to cut down on the amount of physical mail we send. Can we switch (company) to email-only for credit memos, invoices, and statements? Or do you want to continue receiving hard copies by mail?”

    1. Combinatorialist*

      I think you need to include what is going to happen if they don’t respond.

      If the default is they will continue to get hard-copies:
      “In an effort to improve our sustainability, we’re trying to cut down on the amount of physical mail we send. Can we switch (company) to email-only for credit memos, invoices, and statements? If we do not hear from you, we will continue to send hard-copies. This preference can be changed for the future at any point”

      If the default is to go to email:
      “In an effort to improve our sustainability, we’re trying to cut down on the amount of physical mail we send by sending credit memos, invoices, and statements by email only, though we will still send hard-copies by request. Does (company) still want to receive hard-copies of these documents? If we do not hear from you by DATE, we will begin sending these by email-only, though this preference can be changed for the future at any point.”

      1. Combinatorialist*

        I also think you want their preference to be clear if they just respond “Yes” to the email

      2. A Paralegal*

        Exactly this. Some if not most of your customers/clients will not respond. So their silence has to be a vote as well.

        I might also move away from anything that implies going to email is to the company benefit. Leave any hint of that off or make a vaguer claim as to why. Credit card companies do that well touting that going paperless is in the custermer’s best interest, not the CC company. Clients/customers aren’t interested in doing things to help a company and for some it may rub the wrong way.

    2. MoopySwarpet*

      I wouldn’t even make it a choice:

      “In an effort to improve our sustainability, we’re trying to cut down on the amount of physical mail we send. Effective ______ we are switching to email-only for credit memos, invoices, and statements. Please contact me directly at [preferred communication] if there are any questions or concerns.”

      If you have any companies that really think they have to have the paper copy through the mail, they will respond. If you think you might have outdated email information, you could add a line about letting you know if the email should go to someone else.

      I would (personally) send past due statements by hard copy in case the reason they didn’t pay is the email didn’t go through for some reason. Then they are getting it in a different format.

      1. Rey*

        I agree. My department gave people one month’s notice that hard copies were going away, and then moved completely to the software. And I think it’s easier to do this, because we deal with 500+ projects, and I don’t know how we would have marked who wants hard copy and who wants email and who wants both.

        1. valentine*

          I would change “we’re trying to cut down” to “we’re cutting down”.

          Is there an online account where they can download and print, so you can just go paperless?

      2. Kerr*

        Agreed – pick one and let them opt out, otherwise email only.

        I would also send a hard copy notice. Why? Because sometimes the email is going into a black hole: it belongs to an employee no longer with the company (and no one bothered to update the account), it’s going to the wrong person, recipient is notorious for ignoring emails, the list goes on!

    3. Darren*

      If you do cut off the physical copies, make sure that you are doing it in a legal fashion and not exposing your company to the risk of non-payment (depending on location stopping from sending things physically without consent can leave the other part a free option to pretend they never got the email and not to pay the invoices and leave you with no legal remedy if they promptly pay once they get a hardcopy notification of missing the invoice).

  192. Anon Anon*

    I work for a nonprofit. As such, we are not obligated to pay sales tax on most items.

    My organization has a policy that if you forget to use the tax-exempt number when you make a purchase for the organization, you must personally pay back the taxes.

    This is a very minor thing, but it’s SO FREAKING PETTY. I have to write a check for, no joke, 60 cents.

    (… plus, as I complained about on this thread last week, our raises and bonuses are being lowered, we’re not getting a match for our 401ks, and oh yeah I’m misclassified and paid 40% less than my coworker who is in a very similar role, so forgive me if I don’t have any patience for my employer’s shenanigans)

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      That is really crappy. I work for a nonprofit, this is a frequent issue. Making you pay for mistakes yourself is crappy (but probably legal unless it pushes somebody below minimum wage). Then again, I also had to reimburse the company if my receipts weren’t deemed sufficient (not itemized, usually) so I feel ya. I also wrote checks for like $1.20

      1. Anon Anon*

        Oh yes, we do the itemized receipt reimbursements as well. It’s so absurd. Like, if I make a mistake that costs us a million dollar grant I’d be given grace because I’ve demonstrated my value over years of employment… but the 60 cents must be repaid.

      2. n*

        Different states have different laws about whether or not you can legally charge employees for mistakes. I know that it is illegal in Illinois, for instance.

          1. valentine*

            Can you cancel the sale and resubmit, or just work it out with customer service?

            Can you push back on the classification?

      4. Kathenus*

        If a nonprofit is audited and is paying taxes it will definitely be flagged as not using their funds wisely. At our nonprofit if we submit receipts with tax we are expected to go back to the company and get it removed. If we don’t want to do that I guess we can pay it ourselves, but it’s policy that they cannot pay taxes and I think it’s reasonable. I’ve certainly had to go back a few times when I did an online order and missed that it was taxed, but that was my mistake, so I fix it.

  193. Nameless wonder*

    Anyone from the UK public sector utterly sick of the well-behind-inflation pay increases? (I know this year it was a tiny bit better but there’s still a long way to go to make salaries competitive again…)

    1. Edinbugger*

      My union is currently balloting us on the pay offer on the table – and on whether we’d support strike action if it’s rejected.

      1. Nameless wonder*

        Yeah us too. I mean, I’d love to have more than the tiny amount promised over 1%, but I don’t see it happening in any universe. And I can’t see striking making any difference in my area :(

  194. Hoping To Retire*

    How do I ask to go to part time?

    I currently work full time for a successful non-profit company that I really enjoy. I get regular feedback telling me that my work is valued. And I like the work, the people, and (mostly) the culture. There are things I’d change, but they’re not serious. I’ve been here 2-1/2 years.

    But I am past full retirement age. I’d like to stop working full time, but I’d welcome working part time, say 3 days a week. I’m not sure how to ask for that, or how to prepare for asking for that.

    There are some other folks here who work part time, but many of them have worked here for many more years than I. (In fact, there are LOTS of folks who have been here a decade or longer.) I’d love to ask them how they arranged their work schedules, but I don’t want to give away my thoughts too early. My thought is that, if the management says, no, you can’t work full time, then I’ll just resign at that point. And I don’t want to have any rumors of my leaving floating around until I’m ready.

    Any thoughts on how to approach this?
    thanks

    1. Victoria Nonprofit (USA)*

      Don’t frame it as a request to worth fewer hours; instead, make a proposal for how you’d like to reduce your hours and workload.

      For example: You currently manage two programs, but you’d like to manage just one. Or: you are responsible for the website and social media profiles for the organization, and you’d like to hand over the website maintenance to someone else and just do the social media work.

      1. Claire*

        What Victoria said. I’ve found through my own experience that this works best if you frame the discussion as “Here’s how I would like to rearrange my schedule” and if you are prepared to talk about how this affects everyone’s workload.

        1. valentine*

          Check your employee manual to see if they offer part-time (or just exceptions), how many hours qualify, and what benefits attach.

    2. Sloan Kittering*

      Well, the good news is that you know the company has part timers, so you’re not asking for some massive change that is harder to grant (like if their payroll system isn’t set up for that, etc). One thing to be clear on for yourself is, would you leave if they won’t go to part time? They may be unwilling to grant it if they have to hire another person to do what you were handling – may decide it’s easier to have one FT than you + someone else – that’s okay if your next best alternative is just to retire, but you have to know that. Then go into a meeting requesting what you want. The company will decide if they’d rather lose you or let you go PT. I hope it’s easy for them to decide to do it and you get what you want! Good luck!

  195. Delta Delta*

    I’m representing one of very many parties in a really contentious court hearing right now. My part is a very bit part. I am appalled at how some of the other lawyers are treating each other and witnesses. I try to be nice to people. I’m adversarial when I need to be. But wow, I’m getting a really fabulous lesson about how I really don’t want to behave.

    These lawyers are the ones who give the rest of us a bad reputation.

    1. What’s with Today, today?*

      My husband does family law/CPS and criminal defense and he says this all the time! Especially family law.

  196. Shh! You Didn't Read This!*

    I just want to vent and wonder if anyone has any ideas on how to just “grin and bear” this situation for not just me, but other workers at the tea shop.

    My tea drinking shop recently hired Compaliner to clean the tea drinking area. However, when they have a problem or disagree on something with another co-worker, they disregard the chain of command (they jump over the tea maker) call Grandboss, who so happens to be a close relative of theirs, who sides with Complainer!

    Now at least coworker and me are afraid to correct or instruct Complainer when changes occur, such as not letting the chai tea and the cheese-flavored tea dispensers be used at the same time or else they’ll run out too quickly, because this will inevitably happen, and what’s worse, they’re making mistakes, such as completely missing tea-drinking tables when they clean up, which no one else does!

    Since the chain of command above the tea makers will just back up Grandboss, even if they are wrong, how do people just deal with people like Compaliner?

  197. Not Maeby But Surely*

    Our work fridge situation came to a head this week. The foulest smell was emanating from one of them, bad enough to make most people gag when the rush of air came at them. One person said she couldn’t smell anything – I wasn’t sure whether to be more concerned for her nasal health or jealous that my nose was much more sensitive. On top of that, people use the fridges to seemingly store a whole week’s worth of groceries. There are 30+ of us and 2 fridges – there’s no room for that kind of thing! There were lunch bags and grocery bags everywhere, placed haphazardly in ways that make it impossible to get around to find one’s own stuff. I sent out an email titled Funky Fridge earlier this week, asking people to go through and toss things of theirs that were no longer good. Little progress was made. Then the office manager warned everyone yesterday to get their crap out of there or make sure it was initialed/dated current or else it was getting tossed. Just finished helping a couple others clean them out; they look and smell much nicer. I don’t hold out much hope that it will last longer than a week though. We are all adults – WHY/HOW DOES THIS HAPPEN? /end rant

    1. Scribbles*

      Ugg. I’ve never used a refrigerator at work because they’re so gross and crowded and I don’t trust people to not steal my stuff. Keeping my own lunchbox and cold packs clean is so much easier than dealing with the mess of 30 other people. It sucks that there’s no way to have separate fridges for the responsible/considerate people and the people who don’t care.

    2. CastIrony*

      This is coming from someone that has never worked in an office before, but here it is:

      According to AAM, people can’t/don’t want to clean the fridge for many reasons. Moreover, if they’re one of the staff that’s not using it, why should they clean it?
      For those that do, I don’t know why. Perhaps they could assign a junior person to do it as part of their job responsibilities (I would, but I don’t work there.)

      Other than that, perhaps it would help to make people start labeling their food with the name and date, and then establish a rule that whatever is older than one week will be automatically thrown out, unless they are storing medication in there or something like that.

    3. SavannahMiranda*

      The only workplaces where I’ve seen refrigerators consistently handled and handled well are employers that have facilities staff detailed to handle it as part of their regular rotation of duties.

      Whether it’s facilities, or a key admin, or someone else, unless it’s assigned to someone, it belongs to no one, and it will not get done. No matter how mature people are, or adult, or responsible, or nice, or anything else. The power of the lowest common denominator will exert it’s irresistible pull and a slide will occur without anyone intending it.

      It has to be someone’s regular responsibility, explicitly within their job duties, and they have to be empowered with the full authority to exercise that responsibility (to send warning emails every 2 weeks, to require dated containers, and to throw out whatever is not dated without suffering blowback).

    4. Alianora*

      My workplace has a pretty well-maintained kitchen. The way we handle it is there’s an admin who is assigned to restock things like paper towels and coffee and run the dishwasher. Everyone washes their own dishes or puts them in the dishwasher. One person is assigned every week to bring in snacks for our weekly meeting, and then on Friday that person cleans out the fridge. Anything that’s expired/isn’t labeled gets tossed.

      ime “everyone clean up after yourselves” doesn’t work. You need to specifically assign someone. I think it’s more fair to have a rotation, but it could also work if it’s part of someone’s job duties.

    5. Jaid*

      A little off-topic, but back in college, I had a really big dorm refrigerator, about three feet tall. My roommate and I could keep a lot of stuff in there, except what she needed to be kept frozen.
      One semester, it started to stink and neither of us could figure out why. Finally, she went through what was in there, to discover that her attempt to make pickles had been forgotten and turned into a science experiment. Of course she apologized and we did a better job on tossing bad food.

    6. Marthooh*

      Google “Tragedy of the Commons”.

      Serious proposal: since nobody knows what a commons is anymore, it should be renamed “The Tragedy of the Office Kitchen”.

  198. AvonLady Barksdale*

    I took a day off today for various reasons, mostly for my mental health. I put it on the calendar three weeks ago. I sent messages. I gave people the heads-up. My out of office says, basically, “I’m not talking to you until Tuesday.” I went shopping this morning and bought some much-needed work-appropriate clothes. I started deep cleaning my house.

    And yet. AND YET. I responded to two emails, including to one where a senior guy passive-aggressively said that he needed someone to do something but “everyone has an out of office”. His boss would have just done the thing himself. Luckily my co-worker took care of it, but I am so irritated with myself right now.

  199. finally an offer!!*

    I’m negotiating an offer finally after a solid year of concerted effort and things falling through. Everything’s going okay so far but there’s one sticking point I can’t really get past and am unsure what to do next.

    Current employer insurance will end at the end of the month in which I work my last day. New employer insurance won’t begin until the first of the month /following/ 30 days of employment. Based on when everything’s squared away with pre-employment screening and offer acceptance, this gap in coverage could be up to a full month. I can’t go without insurance for a full month, so I’ll have to buy either Marketplace or COBRA. Both of those options are more money than I can afford to lay out for the chance to move jobs, even if I get up to the salary base I’m asking.

    I’ve asked new employer if they would provide a signing bonus to cover this gap cost. They will not. I’m not sure what other options to ask them for because the idea of going without insurance (I had a previous unemployment period in which I was uninsured and got sick) is bypassing all my brain cells and careening straight into Panicville. Any suggestions?

    1. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

      I’m not sure if you *know* you will need insurance for that month (like for an ongoing condition or medications), but if you’re just worried about getting sick and not having insurance, COBRA can be purchased retroactively. It’s still scary, for sure, but maybe knowing that there is a backup, albeit an expensive one, might help you make a decision?

      1. Sloan Kittering*

        Yep this is what I did, and I was out of insurance for three months. Of course that depends on your health and the ability to get through the time without healthcare, but it turned out okay for me. (there are minute clinics that just take cash). 1) the ACA has an exception for this situation, so you’re not out of compliance with the law, 2) you can just write the check for COBRA and keep it on your fridge – don’t send it unless you realize you’re going to use it. If you never need it for the month, yay, you saved that money.

        Of course if your work will pay the difference, even better!!

    2. SavannahMiranda*

      Sit it out. If you have a health event that puts you in the hospital during those 30 days, you will be able to activate COBRA to cover it retroactively.

      At that point, whatever your COBRA payment is for those 30 days ($900 – 1400?) it will be far far less than whatever your hospital bills and healthcare costs would have been.

      Don’t pay it unless you have to. Unless you’re forced to by an event. Drive carefully, take your vitamins, and get enough sleep for those 30 days!

      (Yes I know it is ridiculous and galling to even have to take the risk or think about it this way.)

    3. nonegiven*

      Don’t you have 60 days from the end of employer insurance to elect cobra? Then if you need services during that time, figure whether the premium will be more than paying out of pocket for a refill or an er visit, etc. Then you still have 30 days, I think, to pay the premium for the month of coverage.

  200. Decima Dewey*

    A somewhat light story from this week at the library.

    One of our patrons, Ava, is sometimes off her meds. Then she argues with herself and occasionally with people at tables yards away from where she’s sitting. This particular day Ava was accusing a woman at another table of stealing her blanket. Fergus, our guard, was explaining to the woman Ava was accusing that she shouldn’t take what Ava was saying personally. Then Ava pivoted to accusing Fergus of commandeering a bus at gunpoint under the branch manager’s orders. Once Ava had gone, I told Fergus he really needed to stop commandeering buses at gunpoint, even if Mr. Lastname asks him to.

      1. valentine*

        I wouldn’t make light of this and Fergus shouldn’t have dismissed the feelings of the accused woman.

  201. Laura*

    I wrote a few weeks ago about my employer closing down the office I work in, and me having to wait 6 months for redundancy and not being sure if I wanted to wait.

    Since then, I’ve been approached by a recruiter who has arranged an interview for me on Monday, for a job with loads of development and progression opportunities, and a salary increase of 40 – 65% on what I currently earn.

    The job’s a bit of a stretch for me, requiring technical skills I don’t have. But the recruiter has advised he’s successfully placed members of the team with less experience than me, and the company promises full technical training.

    I’m excited but nervous and terrified. It’s so long since I had an interview and I’m scared I’ve forgotten how.

    1. SavannahMiranda*

      You’re going to do great!

      If they are a publicly owned company, go to the SEC and pull up their most recent public reports (Google ‘SEC EDGAR’ and go from there.) Look at their earnings, whether their stock price has fluctuated, what changes they’ve had at the level of senior leadership (C-suite and Board). The reports are dry and they bury the juicy stuff so spend some time.

      Even if you don’t intrinsically care about any of those things, they are all health and wellness indicators of the company at large (stability versus fluctuation, a lot of mergers & acquisitions versus plugging along). And they give you an opportunity to show your knowledge of the company in the interview. “Yes, I saw the new CEO started just 6 months ago. Can you tell me more about what changes she’s implemented in the organization?”

      Look the company up on blogs and news sites for the industry. It used to be one researched them in trade publications but now you look for the key news sites for the industry and research them there. Do they have a lot of commentary as an up and coming entity? Is there discussion of scuttlebut, or glowing reviews? Google “Press Release” with the company name. You already know about Glassdoor as well.

      Ask your recruiter what kind of interview style they use. Do they use ‘behavioral interviewing’ or some other on-trend method? If so, Google their method and how to prepare. You’ll be surprised by what you can find just based on this alone. If they’re following some sort of playbook, you’ll be able to follow along.

      Stand up straight, shake hands well, and look people in the eye! You’re gonna do awesome.

      1. Laura*

        Thank you so much for the advice.

        I’m off right now to do all the things you suggested.

        I’ll update in next week’s open thread.

  202. Blueberry*

    I’m writing a cover letter – should I address the fact I got promoted less than three months ago in it? I applied for a got a promotion at the end of November which was good but in December some changes were made that mean I no longer want to stay. Anyway will it look sufficiently weird that I should address it head on or just leave it and see if they ask?

  203. YouwantmetodoWHAT?!*

    What the heck is ‘a meaningful cover letter’? I’ve found what sounds like a VERY interesting job, but it requires a ‘meaningful cover letter and resume in Word or PDF’. Would the fantastic examples that Allison shares be what they are asking for? I don’t want to mess this up!
    Thank you!

    1. Rey*

      Yes, follow Alison’s advice. I assume by meaningful, they want something that is not just repeating your resume.

    2. The Other Dawn*

      I would say it means that the cover letter should connect the dots as to why you’re interested and how the position would be a good fit for you. In other words, not just a letter saying you’re interested and here’s my resume.

    3. Scribbles*

      I remember reading Allison’s examples and thought they were very compelling.

      I don’t think I’ve ever seen a resume described as “meaningful.” I take it to mean tailored for the job (directly “relevant” to them as opposed to a generic cover letter you’d send anyone). So I’d include why the job ad caught your attention, what about the organization is appealing to you, and what makes you suited for the specific job.

    4. Someone Else*

      Yes, any cover letter that utilizes AAM’s advice is a “meaningful cover letter”. I suspect these postings are just using unnecessary language, rather than speaking in any kind of code (since really no one is going to ask for a crappy cover letter).
      That said, I’ve received plenty of meaningless cover letters with job applications. Generally they’re something like “I am applying for the position of X. Attached is my resume.” and they say nothing else IE they’re not really cover letters at all. Just 2-3 sentences where the cover letter should be. Those are bad. Don’t do that. Possibly whoever decided to specify “meaningful” cover letters was fed up with getting really bad and useless cover letters.

      1. Darren*

        I imagine this is it. I’m not in charge of recruiting but I’d definitely prefer to see more cover letters explaining why someone things they’d be suitable for the role and why they are changing. I recently reviewed a resume for someone with decades of experience at a management level in IT applying for a technical role with no reports and little prospect of getting any in the near future. No cover letter to explain why (I did ask during the interview obviously) which is pretty typical in IT really I don’t think I’ve seen more than 1 or 2 cover letters in total out of all the people I’ve had to interview (solidly in the dozens).

  204. (Non) Lateral Move*

    Might be a bit late today, but I have a question about asking for a raise. Very short background: I’m mid/mid-senior level, and I’ve been at my company for about 2.75 years. I got a pretty good raise but no title change after one year, and it took over two years to get a promotion because my managers kept resigning (seriously, 10+ in two years) and there was no one to push my promotion through. In those two years, I was doing very senior level work with almost no support. I was finally promoted last fall, about five months ago, as soon as I had a steady manager for more than a couple of months. I also got another good raise with that promotion.

    However, I’m being “asked” (really told) to make a “lateral” move to another team. I know that this is because I’m very good at my job (I receive excellent performance reviews, and was told by multiple people that I was handpicked for this role because of how good I am at my job). It’s not really a lateral move, though, because I’m taking over for someone two levels above me, and will be managing more people than most people one level above me. However, there has been no discussion about a title change or additional compensation. This is being positioned as as “growth opportunity,” but I’m wary of hearing that, because I’ve been burned in the past. In my experience – including my first two years at this company – “growth opportunities” definitely don’t pan out the way they were promised.

    The only thing holding me back from asking for at least some additional compensation is the fact that I have received two pretty good raises in the last two years. However, I know that even with those raises, I’m making well under what someone coming in from the outside would be making for the role (or what I would be making if I went elsewhere). For a multitude of reasons, I’m not really looking to change jobs for the foreseeable future, but I do think I should be compensated fairly for the work I’m doing, especially if I’m being asked to take on more work because I have a history of high performance.

    Any thoughts or suggestions?

    1. SavannahMiranda*

      “even with those raises, I’m making well under what someone coming in from the outside would be making for the role (or what I would be making if I went elsewhere)”

      It sounds like that right there is your key.

      Allison has excellent advice within the site on how to ask for a raise by pushing the fact one has done market research, and how to present those facts to the best advantage. In an impersonal but strong businesslike way.

      You absolutely should be paid more for more responsibility, and pretty good raises for existing work are not salary recognition commensurate to increased responsibility or “growth opportunity.”

      To take a phrase from the taxation and accounting worlds, in order to “realize” the income potential of the nice “growth opportunity” they are providing you, you would have to “cash it out” by moving on to another company at the correct salary for that role. And is that what they’re expecting or asking you to do?

      Obviously it would be cheeky to put it like that to them. But get clear on that for yourself in private. By ‘growing’ you but not paying you, they are ‘growing’ someone else’s employee!

  205. Tathren*

    Probably too late to get advice, but here’s hoping…

    I have a job offer on the table and everything about it is great, except I’m unsure about the PTO they’re offering and they’ve made it clear that this isn’t negotiable (it’s the same structure across the entire company).

    I’m currently in my first job post-college, where we have a set number of “bucket days” to use for both vacation and sick time. Every 2-3 years the number of days you have increases slightly. Right now, I get 18 days a year. They don’t accrue either, so I have access to them immediately as of January 1st each year. We only get 5 paid holidays a year. I also have the option to flex my schedule however I need, and I can work from home a few days a month if I need to.

    New Company offers 10 vacation days and 5 sick days, which accrue over time (it comes out to 5/6 of a day per month for vacation days, I don’t remember the rate for sick days). There’s no increase to this until you hit TEN YEARS with the company. They have 10 paid holidays a year. They’re also less flexible with schedules and working from home is discouraged- but this job would shorten my commute by over an hour.

    I’m really nervous about this, especially because whatever job I move into next I’m looking to stay in for 5 years until I’m eligible for a specific license in my state (obviously barring major life or work changes in that timeframe). Less vacation & sick days doesn’t necessarily bother me because they offer more paid holidays, but the whole package together offers far less flexibility than my current position and that’s something that’s really important to me.

    I guess what I’m asking is, does this sound like a typical arrangement for PTO benefits? It’s very possible that my current company is the unusual one here, but since this is my first job I don’t have anything to compare it to.

    1. Addison*

      You have a pretty sweet deal at your current company, I think the standard PTO at most places is 13 days a year plus holidays. Plus combined vacation and sick “bucket” is nice if you don’t get sick often because you can still use that time off no matter the circumstances, whereas separate vacation and sick buckets have different requirement for use.
      The new company sounds pretty stingy on benefits tbh, 10 vacation days is not a lot, the standard rate I’ve seen is 1 day per month for the first 3-5 years, then it can increase to a day and a half or two days a month.

      I guess it comes down to whether an hour shorter commute each day plus more federal holidays is a better deal than flex time/ occasional work from home with less holidays. To me, it seems like they kind of even out in the end. Are there any other difference to the jobs that might help you decide?

      1. Tathren*

        Thank you for the input! It’s definitely given me a lot to consider about this offer.

        The problem I’ve found is that I’m definitely burning out on my long commute, and the flexibility I have can only alleviate that so much. I’m hoping that a shorter commute will compensate for the stingier benefits, but I’m nervous about accepting the offer and regretting it because of this down the road. Jobs with a commute of <1.5 hours are very rare, and I can't afford to move closer to where most jobs are located.

        Everything else between the jobs is comparable, or slightly better in New Company's offer. I also didn't see any other red flags for work/life balance issues. They made it a point to say that if I have to stay late one day they expect me to flex my hours another day to make sure I work overtime.

        So, unfortunately, it more or less comes down to the benefits issue here.

      2. designbot*

        10 days vacation + 5 days sick has been the standard at everywhere I’ve worked. I think I only get 7 holidays, so there they’re even being slightly generous.

    2. LaDeeDa*

      10 days vacation = 2 weeks, unfortunately, that is pretty standard in the US. It was shocking for me when I moved here because I had 27 days before! One of the hardest things I have had to adjust to, living here, is that the work like balance is pretty much non- existent.
      I don’t know what license you need that requires you to stay someplace 5 years, but in 20 years of working I have only worked at one place 5 years- and in that 5 years, I had 4 job/level changes.

      1. Tathren*

        Thanks for the response! I had heard that 10 days was “standard” but didn’t know how true that was in practice- disappointing to hear that it is typical, but maybe I shouldn’t be surprised.

        With regards to the license, in order to be eligible for it I have to work for 8 years under someone who’s licensed and I already have 3 years under my belt. Getting my last 5 years at one company is more a matter of practicality rather than a requirement for getting the license. Jobs with a commute <1.5 hours are few and far between- this one is only the second I've found in the last year. It makes for a very frustrating job hunt and one that I really don't want to repeat in a year or two.

        Also, for what it's worth, it's not uncommon for people in my industry to stay with a company for 5+ years. The 10+ years I'd have to stay to get an increase in PTO with New Company is a bit more unusual, but also not unheard of.

    3. Gumby*

      It’s a little on the stingy side but not *that* far out of the norm.

      When I started this job we were 10 vacation, 5 sick, 8 paid holiday days (2 days each for Thanksgiving and Christmas). They upped the vacation to 15 “to be more in line with what other companies offer” – so for employee retention – recently. I think we get 2 extra vacation days at 5 years? Maybe? Or 10? The company is roughly a decade old so it probably hasn’t come up much.

      1. Tathren*

        Thank you! Your response, along with the others, definitely makes me think I just have an usually good benefits package at my current job (at least in this one regard). Which is a little disappointing, because I really wish more companies offered PTO in a similar structure to what I have now, but it’s good information to have regardless of whether I accept this job offer or not.

    4. SaaSyPaaS*

      Unfortunately, like the others have said, 10 vacation days is pretty normal in my experience too. Most companies seem to add additional weeks the longer you’ve been there (3 weeks at 5 years, 4 weeks at 7 years, or something like that). One place where I worked allowed you to purchase extra weeks up to six total and you had to use what you purchased that same year, but vacation purchase plans do not seem to be the standard. I recently accepted a new position where the vacation days were the standard 10 per year, but the sick days would roll over into the next year. I think I can carry up to 10 sick days maximum from the 5 days we are given each year. The job I just left did not allow sick days to roll over. All that to say that the way companies allow days to roll over can vary, but 10 vacation days is the standard offer in the US. Sometimes you can negotiate for more during the offer stage, but not all companies have that flexibility.

  206. Narvo Flieboppen*

    Fun times in the office, where I am expected to do more extra work but without incurring any overtime. Never fear, when I asked how I was supposed to accomplish this, our CFO offered me his brilliant plan.

    Our time clock rounds up/down to the nearest 15 minute interval. The CFO suggested that I show up 7 minutes early and leave 7 minutes late every day, which will give me an extra 14 minutes per day of work for which the company will not have to pay me extra. I pointed out that’s 70 minutes a week which comes out to more than 50 hours per year of essentially unpaid labor, which doesn’t seem fair to me.

    I suggested that I clock in late 7 minutes every day and out 7 minutes early, which will still cause me to get paid for my full 8 hours a day and I get more than a week of extra time off per year. The CFO stated he will have my boss watch check my punches going forward because, if I do this, that will be considered stealing from the company and I will be fired. Despite that he thinks it is totally cool for the company to “steal” time from my personal life.

    I know this place is covered in bees, but I just cannot seem to get a job offer from anyplace decent. I thought I had found one, but during the interview, I discovered they were, in fact, a beehive in disguise. They almost fooled me. I also have a personal relationship with someone who used to work there, who I asked to verify my suspicions were correct.

    1. Dude seriously?*

      I think you have an attitude problem if you thought it was a good idea to verbalize to YOUR CFO(!) that you were going to clock in late/clock out early to beat the system. Why on Earth would you say that? I have a feeling you have other issues at work if this is a normal interaction for you. Maybe do some internal reflection before you make a decision about how to proceed.

      1. The Francher Kid*

        Did you miss the part where the CFO thought it was totally fair for the company to get 50 hours of unpaid labor a year by instructing Narvo to beat the system? I read this as Narvo trying to point out how ridiculous that suggestion was by turning the CFO’s instructions around in Narvo’s favor, and the CFO’s reaction showing how clueless he is.

        2. Alianora*

          I don’t agree with Dude seriously? that Narvo has an attitude problem, but that did strike me as a really bad thing to verbalize to your boss, who has already demonstrated himself to be unreasonable and willing to take advantage of employees.

      2. Zona the Great*

        Wow. The fact that anyone would just agree to go along with such a plan is outrageous. I think it is you who might benefit from altering your thought process. CFOs, VPs, Executives, etc are just people. People who are not more important that the OP. People who cannot legally say what they said to the OP. Employees are better off growing a stronger spine than bowing down to big-wigs.

      3. BRR*

        While I wouldn’t reccomend this, I do sort of admire replying to such a ridiculous request with an answer like this.

      4. The New Wanderer*

        I think it was pretty appropriate (if risky from a power differential perspective) for Narvo to point out the problem with what the CFO was saying by using the reverse example. CFO just suggested that the company steal 50+ hours/year of Narvo’s time and didn’t acknowledge anything was wrong with that, when “clearly” stealing 50+ hours from the company using the same logic would be wrong.

        The fact that the CFO reacted to what I assumed was a facetious comment highlighting the unfairness of the suggestion as if it were a real plan only underscores that the CFO was serious when they suggested it in the first place. And that suggests the CFO has no issues skirting or breaking labor laws regarding overtime (assuming Narvo is hourly, based on the clocking in/out).

        I wish you luck getting out of there!

      5. Narvo Flieboppen*

        Very late follow up on my part, but I’ll address this comment.

        As was noted by other folks, this comment was facetious, in order to point out that this could play out either way. If it was to my benefit, however, the company would view it as stealing & punish me accordingly. If taking advantage of it one way is unethical for me, taking advantage of it the other way is unethical for the company. Or, if it is okay one way, than the other way must be okay, too.

        This is the same CFO who put me on final notice in mid-2018 for, ostensibly, ‘egregious errors’ in my work and taking too many sick days. He specified my sick time and referenced the metrics for my worst performing month of 2018 (at the time, and now I can say, actually for the year) were the basis. I don’t think he knows that I run those reports for my boss, who then vets them for problems and submits them to the CFO, so I actually knew my own metrics.

        I pulled the metrics reports and reviewed them myself. The egregious errors specified were ‘too low a percentage of valid data entry’ and ‘too large a dollar amount in variances’ between what I keyed and what it should have been. To wit, the metrics show:

        I hand keyed 22,716 individual fields of data. Of those entries, 6 were incorrect. 3 of the errors were cost centers, 3 were dollar amounts. All of the errors were caught in our monthly review of the preliminary reports* and fixed before the final reporting was published for upper management & the board. To put this in percentages, I had a 99.974% accuracy rate on my data entry. That’s about as close to machine precision as you’re going to get out of a human being. Sorry I’m not a robot, I guess?

        *As an aside, this happened to be the month’s data where the CFO took the preliminary reports and published them to the board as finalized in order to get a leg up. That’s not my fault and he really should have waited.

        Secondly, while I realize number of errors may not be egregious, it is possible to make even just one error with is egregious in dollar amount. I had a coworker who reported what should have been $250,000 loss as a $250,000 gain. That’s egregious and causes issues, for certain, and I would expect something of that nature to came back to me. Looking at the metrics, from the month the CFO referenced as the problem, my errors totaled $110 on $1.1 million in activity. That is literally in the realm of ’rounding error’. Or, to put it another way, my dollar amount data entry was 99.990% accurate.

        As I mentioned previously, all of the errors mentioned above were corrected before final numbers were published. Even if they were not, the amount and level of errors falls far short of ‘egregious’ for anyone remotely in touch with reality.

        Lastly, in regards to the too many sick days: I used all of my sick days for the year in one go, after being hospitalized for emergency surgery, which was necessary to keep me alive at that exact moment in time. I had a doctor’s note excusing me from work for 3 weeks for recovery. I took one week off and came back to work instead of the full 3 weeks. None of this should ever be mentioned as a reason for a write up or final notice, and I did send the write up and a copy of my doctor’s note to my attorney when this happened, just in case I was fired.

        The ‘final notice’ was revoked several months later, based on my appearance of ‘full support of the CEO’s vision for ‘. There’s a serious disconnect between the reasoning of why I was put on notice, actual reality, and why the notice was revoked.

        So, yeah, I absolutely have developed an attitude problem. And I will call out logical fallacy and ridiculousness coming from this guy who I cannot stand and for whom I do not want to work. This may very well be the hill upon which I decide to die, in regards to my career with this company. But that is because this is becoming a very reasonable place to draw a line in the bee hive.

  207. HR Wannabe*

    This is a very specific question, so I hope that some members of the AAM community are able to respond! How do you break into HR without having an hr degree or business degree? Ever since graduating from college I’ve been trying to find a way into the human resources field. While I have solid administrative experience, experience handling training, onboarding, and interviewing, and completed an HR internship at a great company, I’ve had no luck finding an HR role. I think it’s because I made the rookie mistake of going the liberal arts college route and majoring in psychology, instead of something that would make me incredibly rich lol! I know that there would be a learning curve, and have only been applying to entry level HR positions. Still, it seems as if I need years of experience just to get started in the field. But without someone willing to take a chance on me, I have no way to gain experience. So HR folks, how I get off this nightmarish carousel and actually find a job?

    P.S: If this info helps, I’m living in Connecticut and am unable to relocate at the moment (I’ve done my research and moving costs are no joke haha). I’ve also tried working with multiple recruiters and leaning into my networks , but have had no luck in either department. My resume has also been revamped and looked at by a professional, so I’m hoping that’s not the problem!

    1. AmethystMoon*

      My stepmom worked for HR for Medtronic for years. She had some college, but never finished her degree. I believe having soft skills helps and also being able to network.

    2. AudreyParker*

      My impression is that local SHRM events can be good for networking – have you looked into that? There are also a lot of HR people active on Twitter, including doing Twitter chats like #NextChat, so that might be a place you could try to network as well, if you’re comfortable there… (I am not in HR but have met some awesome & helpful HR and recruiting folk in Twitter chats!)

      1. T. Boone Pickens*

        Yup, came here to echo the SHRM recommendation. It’s going to be the best way to network with the maximum amount of HR folks.

  208. Late to the party*

    I cannot handle any more medical/personal health talk at work! One new coworker does not understand that this is not our office culture! He shares too many details about his wife’s drastic weight loss and his daily runs to train for a marathon. I feel on edge every time he talks about “health and wellness” (because he really means “weight loss and diet”). I push back when I can and present an opposing view so that he doesn’t go unquestioned. Oh I wish that anonymous notes worked, cause I would definitely leave one about this.

    2. AmethystMoon*

      Oh, the healthier-than-thou type. Sadly, there is at least one of those in every workplace. I just try to avoid talking to them or put on headphones, etc. Some of us can’t run (hello, knee pain and back pain), and all the fad diets in the world won’t make us thin. I’ve pretty much tried them all.

    3. LGC*

      I’m going to push back on your approach, and suggest you change the subject immediately without addressing his claims. Don’t engage with him about how his wife lost 100 pounds by going paleo or how he crushed a 20-miler and he’s hoping to run a BQ. I don’t think he’s being malicious per se, so I think pushing back (which I’m taking to mean “disputing his claims”) is a bit counterproductive and exhausting for both of you.

      The joke about marathoners (and vegans, and libertarians, and…you know, a lot of people who do Stuff That Takes Up A Lot Of Headspace) is, “How do you know someone does X? Don’t worry, they’ll let you know.” Because it does take up a lot of time and mindspace. I mean, I’m one of the resident marathoners on AAM, and I’ll estimate I spend…like 10-15 hours a week outside of work running. It’s really time consuming, guys!

      This assumes that he’s not telling you that you need to go keto or run a half marathon because it will change your life. Shut that down immediately if he does! And if the subject in general bothers you because of past experience, you can say that you don’t like discussing that topic. That’s perfectly acceptable.

  209. Mimmy*

    Hermit Crab’s thread above about organizing documents and articles just made me realize how inefficient my methods are and how much I really need to update my computer skills :/

    I have access to LinkedIn Learning, but there is SO much I want / need to learn that I don’t even know where to start. That on top of most likely taking my certification exam during the last week of February. I really do need something structured, but I don’t think it’s financially feasible right now to sign up for actual classes, hence going the self-paced route, which I’m terrible at.

    PSA: Don’t be like Mimmy and try to do everything in a haphazard fashion…you will go nowhere very quickly.

    1. SaaSyPaaS*

      I love my LinkedIn Learning account. You can bookmark the courses you want to take and organize them into collections. I’ve been getting a lot of use from my account lately. Good luck with your exam!

  210. AmethystMoon*

    My company is undergoing a re-org and my job is moving back to the division I left to get away from. While I’m happy to have a job, I will have a new boss and have to put up with things I don’t like (eg. open plan, some hot desking, etc.). It is possible the new company will change some of these policies, so I am waiting to see what their changes will be. You would think working from home is a good thing, however there are weeks I cannot afford to pay the Internet until I get my paycheck — student loans. Argh.

  211. Chuck*

    Are there any commenters here who have gone from a humanities/liberal arts degree to something in STEM or STEM-adjacent? If so, how?

    (I’m a recent grad with an English/religious studies degree who wants to do something in health care and would like to hear about other people who have done that. But if you just want to talk about your career change that’s great too!)

  212. Scrumtrillescent*

    Hi. Um. So, almost a year ago, there was a knowledge swap thread and I shared my knowledge of being a single parent of 5 while poor. We had a really interesting conversation which, to my surprise, ended up with people emailing me and asking if they could help us out. At the time, I said no.

    Now, things are kind of dicey. My van is rapidly dying and I’m probably going to have to replace it. This weekend. It has needed expensive repairs for a long time that I kept trying to get ahead of, because I really did not want to purchase a car, but the van was too broken. I’ve maxed out all my credit cards three times trying to keep this van alive.

    It looks like the only way I can get a car is if I come up with a big down payment and finance it at a high rate…and cars that seat six are like ten thousand dollars more than cars that seat 5. (But at this point, a car that seats five is still less than the van’s needed repairs.) My oldest child’s 17th birthday is today so maybe a car that seats 5 is fine. He will hopefully be off to college in a little less than 18 months…but also he has autism so maybe he won’t and maybe he won’t ever leave home and maybe I need a larger car. I can get $3k for my decrepit van as a trade in if I buy a newer car with low mileage…I guess my van is a threat to the environment at this point. So there’s a government subsidy. But the car has to drive to the dealership on its own and the possibility of that happening is quickly diminishing. I have a person at a dealership who will give me their employee discount on a vehicle and service, in perpetuity. So that seems like a good possibility, if I can make that happen. I’m rambling. I’m sorry. I am terrified to post this here, and am half-hoping that it’s maybe against the rules because I am so ashamed to ask for help.

    If the people who emailed me last spring are out there and still want to help, the time has arrived. Thank you.

    2. SemiRetired*

      I’m not sure how to get or give an email address here. Can you post about it on the weekend thread?

  213. Library Joy*

    A Friday giggle. Today’s book order included Zombie Butts from Uranus, I can’t stop saying it out loud. C’mon ask me what was in my book order. You know Andy Griffith- he wrote The Day My Butt Went Psycho. Yup. Sometimes I do love my job.

  214. TechWorker*

    I’ve been working abroad for 2.5 weeks and I fly home tomorrow – I am *so* ready to come home!!

    Yesterday I did some networking (ish) helped with a presentation and then went drinking with some folk in another area of the business – super interesting – slightly depressing cos in a room of ~60 I was the only woman but hey ho! Met some nice people.

    Today I’ve been unproductive because I’m, tbh, burnt out. Working all hours and I just can’t see how it’s going to let up. I’ve complained to my manager before but he is optimistic to a fault (and presumably just less easily stressed than me?!). I veer between enjoying my job (I like knowing things, having responsibility, helping people) and wanting to quit and do something less stressful. Haven’t ruled it out yet, but I don’t really want to be the person that quit cos the project got tough :(

  215. DuPont Circle Travel*

    I need to vent a little and also check that I’m not overreacting or in the wrong (which I might be!).

    My job is pretty flexible on scheduling – we have specific days/projects where the schedule is set with a strict start time (and a pretty consistent end time), but apart from those, we have to fill in hours to make 40/week. My boss (Nedd) doesn’t like to micro-manage a schedule so he trusts us to set our hours and confirm them with him. We work in the arts, so when I’m on a big project I work mainly nights and weekends, but when I’m between projects, I tend to work 9-6. I am NOT a morning person. I’m not particularly functional at 9am but I show up and work. Even a 10am start time makes a major difference in my energy level (the difference of waking up at 8:30 instead of 7:30, and I think circadian rhythms kick my brain awake at 10). Nedd knows this. We’ve discussed it (not formally, but lots of times casually). I’ve worked with Nedd full time for 4 years (and freelance for several more) and this has never changed. I have always struggled with mornings but show up on time, ready to work, when required. Luckily, my usual schedule doesn’t have a ton of mornings (unless I’m between projects) so I usually work around it.

    We are in a *very* slow stretch right now. We have nothing pressing, no big deadlines, nothing but catching up on some stuff and a good amount of down time. My schedule worked out to several 8 hour days, so I asked if a few of them could be 10-7 instead of 9-6. He allowed it, but grudgingly, telling me I needed to “grow up” and get over not liking mornings. It is an arts org, so we have far fewer boundaries than most work places and my department is very jokey and teasing. Most of the time it’s all fine, and oddly a dynamic that works for us but this didn’t feel too much like a joke and I’m a little annoyed at the response. There was no real reason for my being there at 9am, literally nothing that couldn’t wait until 10. I offered to come in at 9 anyway if it wasn’t okay, but he did okay it in the end. I worked the 10am start time the rest of the week and didn’t hear any more comments.

    Was I wrong? If our schedules are generally flexible and there was no specific reason to be in at 9, was I wrong in trying to schedule myself to work better with my sleeping patterns and position myself for better awakeness/productivity? To be fair, I didn’t spell it out as the reason for this, but we’ve had the discussion of 9 vs 10 lots of times before, even as recently as last week (when he pushed our start time to 10am one day), so he’s definitely aware of my stance/preferences. Of course I don’t and wouldn’t push back on days with a strict start time or pressing deadlines, but I don’t think I was unreasonable. Hell, I’m not even planning on making this a regular request when I switch to 9-6 between projects in the future! I just didn’t see the harm in asking this week when things were so slow. Am I wrong to be annoyed?

    I probably won’t bring it up to him or escalate it anywhere, it’ll all be fine. I just needed a check in and a little venting.

    1. WellRed*

      Have you asked Ned why he wants you in at 9? I agree he’s being weird and there’s no actual reason but it might help him to …realize he has no reason for it. If he does have a reason, start from there.

      1. DuPont Circle Travel*

        I didn’t in this instance because it was all a sort of clamoring response of:
        “Sure, that’s fine, but you need to grow up.”
        “I can come in at 9 if you want me to-”
        “No, it’s fine, come in at 10. [BUT]”

        It was kind of an overlapping conversation where he was both telling me it was fine and still saying I need to grow up/get over it. I can safely assume the answer to why 9am would be “Because that’s our start time” and any question of why it *has* to be the start time would be answered like a broken record. Ned does not like to shake things up (even when it makes sense)

        1. Amethystmoon*

          Is it possible there are busybodies complaining about it? We had someone with an unusual schedule due to being a single parent, and there was no end to gossiping/whining by other coworkers.

    2. Lissa*

      Ugh, I’m sorry! Some people have a really ingrained bias about this kind of thing – that sleeping in is immature, or teenagerish. I don’t know that you’ll actually be able to change his mind or opinion, so I wouldn’t try. I’d also take him at his word and do 10-7 when he approves it, even if he’s making passive-aggressive snarky remarks about it.

      But there’s this idea a lot of people have about what is “grown up” and what isn’t, like how some people think it’s really weird to drink a soda before noon but people drink coffee with tons of sugar (guilty!) and it’s no thing. Or how getting married/having kids is considered a sign of maturity.

      As long as you’re punctual to the time you say you’re coming in you’re perfectly “grown up” IMO!

  216. Kelly*

    How should I respond if a male coworker tells me I’m beautiful or gives another unwanted compliment? It happened at my former job, and I don’t want a repeat at my new job. I resent being expected to reply with a smile and a “thank you.”

    4. Friday afternoon fever*

      Gross, sorry. First time: “Please don’t compliment my appearance, it’s inappropriate in a workplace and makes me uncomfortable. Moving on to X work topic…” To any following blustering or justification, smile with your mouth but not your eyes and don’t acknowledge it — change the subject to work.

      Subsequent times: drop the “please” and the “makes me uncomfortable.” Tone should get progressively icier. At some point your manager(s) get brought into the conversation.

    5. Kelly*

      Thank you. I plan to mentally store all this advice. I started my former job in 2015 after being a SAHM for 17yrs, and I couldn’t believe this is still an issue in the workplace. There is a similarity between clueless men and children. You can’t be nice if you want something done. My responses to unwanted compliments were “Thanks but compliments aren’t necessary” “You’re too kind but I don’t need compliments” “FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP THE COMPLIMENTS OR I AM GOING TO HR”.

  217. Alianora*

    To be honest my instinct is usually just a flat “ok,” but that can get you labeled bitchy so it’s probably not the most strategic response.

  218. Workaholic*

    Throughout my work history companies always say not to discuss what you make with co-workers. Reading on this site it sounds like it’s not only ok, but maybe even a good idea.

    Today, a co-worker, same team and position I’m in, was discussing wages in general. Her son moved from job S to job A, and made $1 more than she did in job M.

    When I was in job S I was a top performer and the company gave me a $4+/hr raise. When I switched to job M I was given a miniscule raise, but together they made over $5 increase in a year.

    Since she was talking about it, I asked what she makes. Then felt fair is fair and told her what i make. But now i feel bad having said anything because i make over $2 more per hour than she does. We’re both female, roughly the same age, same team, same position, same number of years in the position.

    Now i feel bad having asked at all.

    1. Darren*

      Companies as a rule don’t want people talking about compensation because frankly they don’t want to have to deal with the issues transparency in that area can cause (many of which are legitimate concerns even for well run businesses).

      These range from people feeling that they work harder (which they might but working 12 hour days isn’t a reason to be paid more if the work is done in 8 hours by the rest of the people on the same money as you it’s about outcomes not hours in a salaried position), give more value to the company (but lack key bits of information that would reveal that actually the higher paid person does give more value to the company) or that the pay is seemingly discriminating on gender or another protected class (something companies should be auditing for themselves and they might have legitimate reasons of more experience, or value arguments to cover this but that wouldn’t prevent an investigation).

      From the point of view of an employee however I feel you should always want to know what other people are being paid, it’s the only way to protect yourself in the case that you being legitimately underpaid. Just take the information with a grain of salt you are never going to be fully aware of the context of why someone is being paid what they are.

  219. anononon*

    CV question:
    Should I list a role that is basically irrelevant to what I do now but covers a gap in my education? & if so where would it go? (ie I would usually separate out education & experience but the dates might look a bit weird)

    I dropped out of one college course (for explainable reasons :)) and worked as a receptionist for 8 months before returning to education. I have ~4 years experience in my field plus 2 relevant internships, so it doesn’t really add much to my ‘experience’ section, but I kinda worry that if I leave it off entirely the interviewer might go see an 8 month gap in the ‘education’ section and draw their own conclusions. (I don’t know if this is common, but I do know that when I conducted interviews for the first time recently the colleague I interviewed with was like ‘if anything looks non standard or like there’s a gap check they have a good explanation!!!’)

    1. SaaSyPaaS*

      I have my experience broken down into sections “relevant experience” and “other experience.” I have one job in the “other experience” section that spanned nearly two years but has very little to do with my career.

    2. atexit8*

      Some people take longer to finish college.
      For all they know, you may have been working part-time and going to college or not taking quite the full load.
      Personally, I would leave it off.

      The education section should be just that — Education
      When I was just starting out, the internships aka summer jobs went under Work Experience.
      These were summer jobs in my field.

      1. TechWorker*

        Thanks both!

        Fwiw some of the stuff I’m applying for they’d probably judge you for taking longer to finish :( (& that’s less of a ‘thing’ at the university I attended anyway, it’s not possible to do the course I did part time).

  220. Lena Clare*

    So I am a little superstitious and don’t want to jinx things – I have an interview next week. It’s for a job that’s a bit more data-based than the one I do (I don’t mind that). It’s in a place I would very much like to work, and it is full time which I am (kind of) desperate for. ATM I only work part time and I am really struggling to make ends meet.

    On the plus side I FINALLY found a black trouser suit for the interview that looks good and actually fits! So I am excited about that :)

    On the other hand, I have to do a data interpretation test as part of the interview. Has anyone done these before? I am absolutely ok with maths as long as I have time to do it. I have done some practice ones online and I have got every question right – from the ones I have answered. I just can’t seem to finish the 20 questions in 30 minutes!
    Has anyone any experience of this? How do I get quicker at it?

    1. Miss Pantalones en Fuego*

      What are you getting stuck on? I tend to get flustered and forget basic multiplication and such. When I took the GRE the first thing I did was write out the multiplication table on some scrap paper to refer to later. That saved me time that I would otherwise have wasted on trying to remember what 7*8 is or what have you. Maybe a basic trick like that would help?

      1. Lena Clare*

        I’m really assuming I can use a calculator! I wouldn’t be great at mental arithmetic…
        I seem to be spending lots of time on understanding what the question is asking me. I guess it is the ‘interpretation’ part of the data interpretation bit that I am taking so long on! I’ve always been like that with multiple choice – I overthink each answer way too much!

        Also equations for working out 1 unknown data factor – they can be hard. Once I work the equation out I can do the sum, but getting to the first bit is taking time.
        I’m guessing more practice will help.

        1. NoLongerYoungButLotsWiser*

          For the GMAT, it turned out (back when I took it) that there are fundamentally 9 basic question structures or so. The actual scenarios vary with details, but with “lots” of practice, I could say “oh, this is the trains meet question (1 leaves the station x @ 2 pm and heads east, blah blah)” or this is the “insert my name for other type.” Then as I read it, I could sketch it out on scratch paper and have all the variables written, by the time I read it the first time. I practiced like an hour a day, and when I took it, did them all (and got them all right). Pretty funny at the time, since I did well primarily out of over-practice and fear. But now I recommend practice to everyone if the scores are important.

  221. Career coaching*

    Hi
    Has anyone used a career coaching service in the UK? I’m moving back to the UK and considering changing careers when I return and think it could be useful to speak to someone to figure out my transferable skills.
    Thanks

  222. Lilysparrow*

    I discovered some cool facts in the garden this week!

    1) Apparently, in my climate the key to a bumper crop of hearty carrots is to plant them in March and forget about them until the following February.

    2) Black-eyed peas, not so much. They didn’t rot on the stem as I expected to find. They were just *gone*. Ghostly empty branches, no dry peas on the ground underneath. This may be related to the very fat and happy chipmunks living under the shed.

    3) If you have four garden beds weeded and turned over, a neighborhood cat will choose the only one with tiny lettuce seedlings in it, to dig a hole and poop. Said cat has no discernable effect on the chipmunk population, either.

    4) Collecting the dry seed heads of purple opal basil is aromatherapy.

    Anyone else doing garden prep – or planning? What are you planting this year?

    1. Mrs. Fenris*

      Sadly, I had to stop vegetable gardening. My crops got worse and worse every year and it was my mom who finally pointed out that the trees around the edge of my yard keep growing and I have too much shade now. A few years ago, though, I did pretty well with tomatoes, green beans, lima beans, and sometimes squash.

      I still have chard, occasionally lettuce, and herbs in planters on my deck.

      I have a patch of Lenten roses that I collect/transplant as a tiny hobby. They are in full bloom right now and they make me really happy!

  223. Career coaching in UK?*

    Hi
    Has anyone in the UK used any type of career coaching services they’d recommend? Am moving back to the UK and considering changing careers at the same time. Think it might be useful to talk with someone to figure out what my transferable skills are and potential new career path.
    Thanks

  224. Don't Want To Be The Favorite*

    Hey, so my boss is pretty great. Except for one thing: I think I may be her favorite. I find this frustrating because she treats me differently than my coworkers with the same title and level as me. For instance, I recently got a piece of equipment to make my job easier. My other coworkers requested this same thing and did not get it. So that means that a coworker who has been there longer than us and I are the only ones using this equipment. When my coworker saw that I got it, they were understandably frustrated and asked why I got one but not them. (Obviously, I didn’t have an answer for them.)

    I don’t want special treatment, even if my boss does like me more than the others. I don’t want this to cause discord with my peers and be an outcast. How do I deal with this?

    1. atexit8*

      I would simply say to your manager that others are asking you about getting the same equipment and you are wondering what you should tell them.

      2. Don't Want To Be The Favorite*

        The problem is not the equipment per se–that was just an example of a larger problem of showing favoritism. The favoritism thing is my issue here.

  225. Once Anon a Time*

    I had an issue with an employee last month and I’m not sure how I should feel about it…

    Basically, I am this employee’s immediate supervisor and he put me down as a reference for a job without telling me or discussing it with me first. It should be noted that he is a part-time employee, so this is another part-time position to work on the days he’s not in my office. Anyway, not only did I get a phone call from two individuals asking for references, but I am not permitted by my company to give out references (personal or professional). I am also upset because he gave out my cell phone number without asking, and I have been flooded with phone calls since.

    I did let him know that I am not permitted to provide references and he must ask the higher-ups if he wants one. He was not happy and said he’s never heard of this before, and didn’t want to alert them that he’s searching for a second position. He also spoke about this with other staff members that I manage, and now they are flooding me with questions about this policy.

    It’s been 3 weeks and it still seems to be a topic of discussion! At this point I’m not sure how to move forward. Hoping it all dies down on its own.

    1. atexit8*

      He has your personal cell #?
      I have 4 cell numbers: 1) # on my resume, 2) # that I now use for personal but not job hunting, 3) # that I use for selling things on Craigslist etc, 4) # that I never give out but on a phone that occasionally use to make phone calls

      If I had only cell #, I would not be giving out to my subordinates.
      With my 4#, I would give subordinates that I rarely answer. LOL.

      1. Once Anon a Time*

        Yes, everyone has each other’s personal cell phone numbers since we don’t get supplied with work phones. It’s a small-ish company and we’re not at that point yet.

  226. Introvert girl*

    I had a very odd job interview this week. I was contacted by an agency for a position in the e-commerce. Except for the city and the two required languages, they couldn’t give me any further information until I came over for an interview. I do understand that agencies won’t mention a company’s name, but I couldn’t even get information concerning the industry nor the function. I mean, they didn’t have to tell if it was about llama’s or alpaca’s, but at least if it was in the tourism, medical, military or furniture industry. I declined via e-mail and told them that I required at least the industry to consider proceeding further with the job application. I received a kind reply that this just wasn’t possible. This is the first time something liken this has happened to me. Has any one else had any experience with these kind of job offers?

    1. atexit8*

      Is it possibly a big city or a small city where from the industry and the city you could guess the employer?

      I have actually had the reverse where I once saw my resume where my name and contact information was replaced by the recruiting agency’s contact information.

      .

    2. Rick*

      I’d assume they’re not a very good recruiting firm, and are very paranoid. Seen it before on both the applicant and interview panel sides. There are places that will just spam companies with resumes and try to hassle companies if they hire a candidate that the firm knows, insisting on getting the commission.

      The decent ones have good relationships with companies and aren’t extremely evasive like that. Sorry to be blunt, but that sounds like the case.

  227. AAM Regular with Temporary Name*

    It’s probably too late for anyone to see this.
    Does anyone have any boos or bravos for WFH legal transcription jobs?

  228. PhyllisB*

    We came for family weekend for our son. It was quite enlightening. After we got here we found out he’s being released today so we are taking him to his “next step.” He’s excited about it.

  229. dovidbawie*

    So coming up on the end of my unemployment benefits soon, & there are no new positions I can find for my field that I haven’t already applied. Almost all of them have been up for a while but I’ve not heard anything back, & haven’t had an interview, email, or call in a couple weeks. I’m starting to apply for part-time & nonindustry jobs to make sure I can at least keep the bills paid—last time I was in a similar position it took 6 months to land a good job while I worked part-time retail, although at that time it was 6 months leading up to the holiday season so there were enough hours in retail.

    Though I suppose in the larger picture, a part-time job would work best as I get my business off the ground. It just really sucks that the full-time job I loved got taken away.

  230. Rick*

    Something I’ve been seeing lately from startups: recruiters changing their names on their email, so that their last name is the company’s name. Not “Nicole from Facebook,” just “Nicole Facebook.” Am I weird for being slightly creeped out by that?

    1. Miranda*

      It’s weird, I agree. I dunno about creepy. It’s possible she doesn’t want people to know her last name for safety? A lot of women are very careful about giving out their full name to strangers.

      1. Rick*

        Oh, yeah, I can absolutely see that being the case with tech guys. Unfortunately we’ve earned a certain reputation.

        I have seen it from both genders, though…

  231. Back in Time*

    I am annoyed by something I have noticed at a new job I have….

    My org has a digital records system (as most places do) and it seems to be almost a wasted resource. While I regularly put notes in, I was recently told by my manager we are supposed to be printing out the digital notes and putting them in the paper files (I guess no one actually reads the notes we put in?). We also have to keep another totally different record system just for our dept. Which is not for a special reason–we just do. This seems like a lot of redundancy and waste of resources/money. Is there any way to suggest a better way or do I have to just deal with this old-fashioned way of record-keeping? I worry if I suggest changes they will ignore me and say it’s how they’ve always done it, or worse–be annoyed at me for it.

    1. Observer*

      The first thing is to actually find why these things are being done. There is ALWAYS a reason. It may be an outdated reason, it may be a stupid reason. But there IS a reason. Find out what it it. Then base your decision on what you find out.

  232. The Dread Pirate Buttercup*

    Coming here to whine. CW: ewww.

    From all the coughing from the latest cold, my uterus prolapsed. Which was fine, until Aunt Flo came along. Now it feels like someone is trying to slowly stab me to death with a broomstick.

    I’m going for evaluation on my day off. I’m terrified I will be told I can’t stand up for extended periods — my work is front-facing, and involves dealing with a lot of Baby Boomers, who write in to complain to corporate if they see “lazy” workers using a chair… I can’t afford extended time off. Sigh.

Comments are closed.