open thread – February 8-9, 2019

by Alison Green on February 8, 2019

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please don’t repost it here, as it may be in the to-be-answered queue.

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  1. KHB*

    Can (or should) I ask to be appreciated more at work? If so, what does that look like?

    I just found out that while 25% of our staff will be getting merit bonuses, I’m not one of them. This has come as quite a blow to my esteem. The whole reason we have money for bonuses at all (we’re a nonprofit, so we usually don’t) is that we were under budget for salaries for 2018 due to having a lot of positions vacant for much of the year. Disproportionately many of those vacancies were on my team, so a disproportionate amount of the work to cover for them fell on me, and I’m disappointed that the powers that be don’t think I deserve anything for that.

    It’s not really about the money per se. I still get a decent salary raise (as does everyone else), so it’s not like we’re being shockingly mistreated. It’s more about how I put in all this extra effort, and nobody seems to notice or care.

    I feel like this happens a lot. I push myself to keep my department running reliably and produce work that’s qualitatively excellent, even when my colleagues are less reliable and less excellent, and that gets taken for granted. Can I ask for more recognition? Or is this a case of “don’t love your job too much, because it’ll never love you back”? Or do I need to start considering that I’m on the wrong end of the Dunning-Kruger curve, and I’m not actually as good as I think I am (although nobody’s seen fit to point that out to me either)?

    1. The Rain in Spain*

      Do you have annual reviews or regular meetings with your boss to highlight the contributions you’ve made? Is it possible they don’t know how much you’ve been taking on because you’ve been handling it so well?

      1. KHB*

        The 25% getting bonuses was the result of the annual review process. I had my one-on-one with my boss where I laid out all my accomplishments for the year, but then, once everything percolated through HR, no bonus for me.

        1. Coffee Bean*

          Did your boss indicate in any concerns he may have about your work during the 1-on-1?

          Also, only 25% of the staff are getting bonuses – are they in a similar work function? Are they all managers? Could that be the reason they are getting the extra bonuses and not the other 3/4 of the company?

        2. Frozen Ginger*

          Question: Who were the 25% who did get those bonuses? Is there a trend there, like they were all senior employees or managers? Because they might be saying they’re “merit bonuses”, but its probably its dependent on way more than merit.
          Also, you mention you had your review and you laid out all your accomplishments, but how did your boss respond? Did she agree with you and seem appreciative? Or did she just nod her head? Depending on your relationship with your boss, it might be productive to just flat out tell her: “I thought I had a really good year, and you seemed to agree, so I was a bit stung that I wasn’t one of those who got a merit bonus. Is there something I’m not doing?”

          1. KHB*

            I’d love to know who the 25% were, but all I know is that I’m not one of them. We’re in the midst of a slightly disturbing trend of senior management claiming more perks for themselves and more work for everyone else, so it’s very possible that they hoarded the lion’s share of the bonuses, but that information isn’t made public.

            My boss seems to agree that I’m doing a good job, but he’s rather conflict-avoidant and reluctant to say anything bad to anybody. When I pointed out that I was disappointed not to get a bonus, he mumbled something about “you know how hard it is to get these things through HR.” So either he tried to get me a bonus but HR blocked him for some reason, or he didn’t even try and is now trying pass the buck to HR. I don’t know which is worse.

            1. Frozen Ginger*

              Sounds to me like the issue, wherever it is, does not lie with you. Either your manager or HR or some other higher authority does not appreciate your work.
              Are you friendly with any other high performers on your level? Might be worth asking them what they think of the situation (because honestly only 25% of people getting merit bonuses sounds sketchy).

              1. KHB*

                The whole process seems sketchy, to be honest. HR isn’t trained in the technical aspects of what we do, so they don’t know enough to judge the quality of my work. So why should they have veto power over my boss’s evaluation of me. Is this how it usually works in other places?

                As I said, usually nobody gets bonuses. Occasionally in the past, when there’s been a year-end surplus, it’s been divided equally among everyone. (Which itself has ticked me off, when a big part of the reason for that year-end surplus has been management’s refusal to fill a vacancy on my team.) This is the first time in my experience that only some people have gotten bonuses.

                1. Jules the 3rd*

                  With each thing you post, it looks more and more like this was not a performance based decision…

                  Does it help at all to frame it that way? Thinking that the execs were keeping money to themselves that had previously been shared would make me unhappy in a different way; that’s something you might want to take to a board.

                2. Carrotstick21*

                  Hi – HR here. A thing that can be very common at poorly-run companies is that managers and other leadership pass the buck of blame onto HR to avoid owning their own decisions, making HR a repository of Bad Stuff That Happened and then no one goes to HR for anything because why on earth would you? Is HR well integrated into your leadership? Do they have a seat on the board or management team? Are they highly visible within your organization and understand the industry you are in? If no, you may be at one of the more poorly run businesses.

                  I would suggest going to HR and asking there. Inform them that you were informed by your manager that HR determined that you were not bonus eligible, that you are disappointed because of X,Y,and Z accomplishment, and that you’d like to better understand HR’s decision. That will at least let you know if it was their decision (My guess: bet it wasn’t) and will give them a heads up that they need to better guide their managers through the comp review process.

              2. Anonymous Penguin*

                It’s also possible that your boss does appreciate your work and he was just too busy with other stuff/forgot/didn’t feel like bothering to do the paperwork and lay out the case for you to get the bonus. We recently asked managers to submit nominations for employee of the year and several of them didn’t submit anyone. It wasn’t that they didn’t think they have excellent employees (I’ve heard them praising their employees before), but because the deadline was short, people were taking lots of time off, there was a lot of year-end stuff to do, and it just got passed over.

            2. wittyrepartee*

              Maybe tell him it’s less about the money and more about you being concerned about whether he has doubts about your work ethic?

              Like, it’s also about the money, at least a little- but knowing whether it’s you or management will help take the sting out of it.

            3. MissDisplaced*

              This often happens at my large company. One group may be experiencing layoffs, but another group may be getting bonuses if they hit or surpassed their sales targets. This is also especially true with sales, and they may receive while all others in a company don’t. But I find that difficult to accept at a nonprofit, where it should in theory be all or none. Are you positive the 25% weren’t under some type of previous pay cut?

              1. KHB*

                I’m not sure of anything, but it was presented as a purely merit-based decision. So either that’s what it was, or they were lying to us.

          2. designbot*

            Another thing that happens sometimes is bonuses are used to balance out situations where people aren’t being paid enough in their base salary. The optics of that can often seem a bit upside-down, as those people aren’t likely to be the highest performers, but there’s a legit reason behind it.

            1. Fortitude Jones*

              But then they shouldn’t call those bonuses “merit based” because they’re not – they’re about giving underpaid employees a one-time boost to make up for the disparity.

        3. CatCat*

          I would go back to your boss so you can find out what you need to accomplish to earn a merit bonus in the future.

    2. Queen of Cans and Jars*

      Did they give you an explanation of why you didn’t get a bonus? I think this would be a good time to ask for a meeting to discuss where they think you need to improve.

      1. Queen of Cans and Jars*

        Not that you don’t deserve a bonus, but their answer will help you sort out whether it’s a case where they genuinely don’t know what you’re contributing, or they do know & really don’t care.

      2. kittymommy*

        yeah, this would be something to ask. The merit raises where I’m at are based on a point scale. Yearly reviews are scaled and depending on your overall average, a merit raise is given or not given (between 0 – 5%).

      3. KHB*

        We talked during my one-on-one about things I can be working on, but it’s all of the form “take on even more responsibilities,” rather than “fix anything that’s wrong with the work I’m doing now.” I’ve taken action on some of them already, and for that reason my boss suggested that he might be able to get me something in the review process next year. But I’m worried that that “might” will turn into yet another “sorry, KHB, not this time – why don’t you shovel some more duties onto your plate and try again next year?” It feels like what the Red Queen said about life through the looking-glass: It takes all the running you can do just to stay in place.

        1. wittyrepartee*

          Ahem, if this isn’t the case already- it might also mean that you need to work on the optics of how much work you’re doing. Like, regular reports even if everything’s going swimmingly?

        2. Not So NewReader*

          And now the picture is becoming a bit clearer as to why so many have left the organization.

          If they think you don’t do anything then they shouldn’t miss you when you’re gone.

        3. Queen of Cans and Jars*

          If I were you, I’d start job searching. It’s starting to sound like the problem is that you work for jerks. :(

          1. KHB*

            I fear that with all my whining I may have overstated the issue. On balance, I do love my job. The work is interesting, challenging, and fulfilling, the pay and benefits are not at all bad, and there’s a lot of respect for work–life balance. My direct manager is overall a sensible and level-headed guy – albeit with the unfortunate tendency to turn into a brick wall whenever I go to him and say “Hey, Thing X is a problem for me.” It’s HR and upper management that have been taken over by jerks as of late; so far, their jerkitude doesn’t usually have much of an effect on my day-to-day work – but it’s really, really demoralizing when it does.

            1. Hapless Bureaucrat*

              That’s unfortunate, and a frustrating situation, because you can’t really control your senior management and HR but they can control you.
              While working with your own manager on more direct feedback and working on building and delivering your own case can help… it’s not likely to do much in these circumstances.
              My guess is there is not much you can do to make HR and senior management be more fair, unless you have friends on the Board. So… it’s up to you. If on the whole you’re willing to stay because you love the job otherwise, can you find a way to reset your expectations of senior management so you just expect incompetence and are pleasantly surprised when they stumble on something right?
              If this is going to continue to hurt you and they’re going to continue to be bad… then maybe that 10% starts to outweigh the 90%. Especially if this is a trend, because eventually their decisions are likely to eat into that 90% that’s good. Being chronically short-staffed, losing good people….
              For what it’s worth I’ve been there twice. Stayed way too long the first time. Got out early the second. For me that was definitely the right choice.

            2. Gatomon*

              Is your manager stopping the crud from rolling downhill? If so, it may be time to quietly take stock of your alternatives.

              I used to work in a job that was, on balance, fine, but the level above my manager was filled with slimeballs, and above them was incompetence. They knew about the slimeballs and had spent 20 years not caring. We all knew our direct manager was stopping a lot of crazy from affecting us, but we were not prepared for the true depth of crazy crud that hit us when she finally moved on (for her health and sanity). Had I known what was coming I would’ve run screaming for the hills rather than stay – it was the worst 2.5 years of my life. I ended up having to find another job because I couldn’t bear to come in anymore, even with weekly therapy and anti-depressants.

    3. Minocho*

      Another possibility I dealt with at a previous company was that I was assigned a lot of maintenance type tasks, and more visible projects were handed over to other employees “because they had the time”. I was also told that my team spirit and attempts to keep morale up were noted an appreciated. But none of that notice and appreciation really mattered, as raises and promotions all slipped by me. Junior men were promoted over senior women with previous management experience, so in my case I think multiple issues were at play, but in my new job I make sure I’m not handling so much of the daily grind that I give other employees time to work on more visible things, and I make sure I”m not pigeonholed into a “den mother” reputation either. I’m doing much better here.

      1. KHB*

        I think gender dynamics are definitely a part of it. For a long time I was the only woman on my team, and I had it beaten into me that my job was to be “accommodating” – to make sure never to ask for anything nice for myself until I was sure that everyone else already had more. So when my (male) colleague announced at the last minute that he was taking an extended vacation and couldn’t do a project we were counting on him to do, I stepped in and did it myself (on top of my own project), because I couldn’t bear to see it left undone. My own vacations, of course, are carefully scheduled for times when no one could possibly need me for anything. Which is not very often.

        1. Sandy*

          You know what? I can understand your reluctance to do this, considering your being left off the bonus list, but I would stop carefully arranging your vacation time so as not to be a nuisance. It is certainly true that vacations cannot be at peak times, but if everyone else is taking it whenever, you should do the same. Stop buying into their mindset that you can’t take up space. And if they are unreasonable about it…well, if it’s not time to go NOW, it certainly would be then.

        2. MJ*

          Martyr-hood isn’t working for you. You’re seen as the one who can be relied on to get things done when others can’t be bothered, and you’ll be regarded as the one to dump stuff on, nothing more.

    4. Lucy*

      Honestly? When this happened to me I started doing as much work as they seemed to think I was worth. Leaving on the dot, only ever doing exactly what the workflow expected (rather than what the client wanted), etc. And I began to plan my exit, with some low key job hunting.

      The next year, I was awarded a significant pay rise “to recognise my dedication” or similar nonsense. I laughed, and was gone before the next review.

      1. KHB*

        Ha. Yeah, I’ve considered that. Nobody ever gets fired here unless they find a way to really eff up, so I could easily skate along doing the bare minimum and probably get exactly the same reviews as I’m getting now. But I take too much pride in my work to actually go through with that.

        1. wittyrepartee*

          Open up time in your schedule so that you can take on more visible projects if you can. Be a little bit more of a squeaky wheel. There are companies and countries where your boss would be expected to keep track of your work, but clearly this is not one of them.

        2. Cascadia*

          Yea – I wonder if they aren’t filling those other jobs in your department because you’re doing such stellar work, and taking on extra work load. I hope that you are documenting how many hours you are working, what extra jobs you are taking on that aren’t in your job description, etc and laying that all out to your manager. It could be that the higher-ups making this decision aren’t really feeling any pain from these positions being unfilled because you’re doing a ton of extra work. And if you’re not getting any commendation/recognition for the extra work – and it could possibly be hurting you because they might now be thinking they don’t need to fill these positions – then why do it?

          1. KHB*

            They did fill the vacant positions – they just took their sweet time about it, and the new folks are still getting up to speed, which means a long period of more work for the rest of us.

        3. Minocho*

          If they’re not actually giving you the recognition you are owed for that dedication, though, see if you can find somewhere else to focus your emotional energy and excellence. :)

    5. Bluebell*

      Agreed that this sounds really annoying. If there is anyway between this year and next you can find out about some of the people who got bonuses, you have a chance to think about your next steps. Maybe sometime mid year you can ask your boss again if they have any examples of people on your level who received bonuses. Where I work it is very frustrating because we are all told as managers to only give a few of the exceeds ratings on performance. And yet last year the overall statistics showed that 30% of staff received that rating. I’ve pushed for a more transparent comparison between departments, but it has gotten nowhere.

    6. CupcakeCounter*

      That sucks.
      I’m anticipating a similar situation. I just worked my butt off on a project that was an epic nightmare but bosses seem to think it was NBD and why wasn’t this other crap done on time?

    7. Banana Pancakes*

      I’ve ended up a complete failure to launch despite my best efforts and I don’t know what to do next.

      I’ll be 30 this year and I’m still making poverty level wages. Last year I made $14,000. It’s the most money I’ve ever made. I have two degrees, am reasonably intelligent, and have been a top performer at every place I’ve worked, but I keep ending up on sinking ships. Case in point: my current job. It was fantastic at first, but then they abruptly switched us from hourly to commission only. I made it work and, for a while, was actually making more money than I had while being paid hourly. Then the work dried up and despite promises that it would come back, it hasn’t so far.

      I have $50K in student loan debt. I can’t pay it. I owe the IRS $2K in back taxes for last year. I can’t pay it. I’m disabled (enough to affect my QoL, not enough to receive assistance) and have no health insurance, no savings, and no family except for my SO, who was laid off in November.

      I’m looking for a new job, but I’m not getting responses. I’ve read all of Alison’s advice on cover letters and resumes, but I must be doing something wrong there. Interviews are another kettle of fish entirely. I suspect that I make a poor first impression due to my flat affect. Even when everything else is a good fit, I have a feeling that interviewers struggle to like me and can’t imagine having to work with me, or they think that I’m being disingenuous when I express enthusiasm for the work.

      I’ve done some acting workshops to try and improve my inflection, but even when it sounds cartoonishly exaggerated to my ears, if I listen to it played back, I sound like a bored robot. My first time through college, I was screened for autism spectrum disorders but was not diagnosed, as I don’t have any issues understanding other people’s inflection, sarcasm, or body language. I have no idea why I talk this way.

      I’ve been through a lot of really hard things and survived. Homelessness, abuse, addiction, mental illness. I had a stroke at 20 that, thankfully, did relatively minor damage. I’ve been sober almost seven years.

      With everything that’s happened, you’d think this would be the easy part, but it’s just not and I don’t know what to do.

        1. N.J.*

          What field are you in? Are you in a field that historically pays low despite having a degree? What geographic area are you in? Are you in a rural area with few job opportunities or a market saturated with other applicants? How is your rate of getting interviews based on how many jobs you are applying to? Are there alumni networks or professional groups you can tap into for networking ? What is the specific problem with your speaking voice? Do you round monotone? Bored? Rude? Sleepy? No emotion? Have you asked someone objective how you sound (acting class coach, family, etc)? Can you practice your interviewing with anyone? There’s just so many questions because there’s a lot to unpack here. As well, is anything from your past, such as the addiction you mentioned, the homelessness etc. contributing to a work history with a lot of gaps? Have you identified ways to get around that in your cover letter or interviewing?

          These are all the questions I would try and answer to identify strategies or areas to tackle.

          1. Banana Pancakes*

            Architecture, located in a small city (~250,000) in the northwestern US. Interview rate is about 5%. Flat affect means I sound monotone. Like I said, I’ve taken workshops and while it’s helped somewhat, it’s really difficult to fix what I can’t hear unless it’s played back to me.

            I don’t have any gaps in my resume. I’ve never been fired or had any workplace issues related to either my past homelessness or alcoholism, neither of which I ever share with employers or coworkers.

            I realize this probably comes across as defensive and I apologize if that’s the case. I wanted to answer your questions but I really have no more insight than what I’ve already said.

            1. N.J.*

              No problem at all. Those were just the things that came to mind. Is architecture an over saturated field like law?

        2. Book Lover*

          Maybe you already have, but perhaps repost at the bottom for more responses? I am sorry, I don’t have any insight, but I am sorry you are struggling.

      2. Iris*

        I’m sorry you’re going through this. Maybe you’re being too hard on yourself as far as the inflection. I can understand failure to launch, I have somewhat the same issue for different reasons. I’ve worked in different industries and experienced low pay/lower than I thought and what would be considered stealing by employers. I’ve made a low paying job work for a while until there were serious ethical issues that made me quit. Do what you can to just feel a little more confident about your situation and try to think of that on interviews. What helps me personally is the fact I have low debt, I’m good at making my money stretch, i have a Bachelor’s degree but refuse to take on more degrees and I’m willing to work min wage jobs even though I’m trying to find something better. Maybe work with someone more closely like a therapist about your inflection but maybe it’s a small issue or not the deciding issue. Personally I think the economy is much worse than they’re saying and it’s across many different sectors and that’s why it’s hard to find a job for many. Think about your accomplishments and work ethic in interviews and anything positive you can, I think that’s what matters most and even if some employers may not like your affect, for others it may not be an issue.

      3. JayOrNay*

        hey there, I hope you’ll still see this comment a couple days later. What you’re saying about sounding monotone reminds me of this video from buzzfeed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLDRQYeYQJg
        In the video, one of the reporters wants to fix his “boring voice” and hires a speech therapist for it. While working with the speech therapist, they turn up that this person has had to hide a part of their identity (that they’re gay) for a long time in their life. the reporter said he felt that shut-down-ness contributed to his language pattern. I’m posting this here to remind you to have compassion for yourself – you are not a failure because you don’t come across as instantly bouncy and chatty.
        I’m very impressed with the accomplishments you have gathered despite what happened in your life. No gaps in job history despite being homeless? Being able to get and stay sober? Big props to you. You seem to have a real good head on your shoulders.
        It seems the talk issue is impacting your self-esteem, and I would guess that comes across in interviews. Is there a way you can practice “exaggerated speaking” (to you) in a less-pressure setting? Maybe pick up something like the theatre group again? Or talk (to yourself or others) about something you’re super passionate about, and see how you convey that? Can you set small goals for yourself to work on, like “i want to be able to talk about my cool hobby excitedly for 5 minutes” vs. “I don’t want to sound boring anymore”.
        And please don’t get it in your head that hiring managers “don’t like you” and want to reject you. Maybe you’re not a natural conversationalist. But you’re a capable applicant. You’ve got grit and perseverance and skills. You are allowed to feel confident in yourself.

    8. Bonus Blues*

      This happened to me once, too, and ultimately it was a major reason I left the company. I had a great year, with several accomplishments including that I applied for and won a $250k training grant for the company. This was relevant to my position, but something I decided to try on my own – with no training or support. And I did it! That year, I got a $100 bonus. No one ever got huge bonuses, but I found out that some under-performing peers of mine got several hundred dollars more than I did. The company had restructured its bonus program that year and only gave “real” bonuses to certain positions that were hard to fill, for retention purposes. It was a ridiculous system. I did cite it in my exit interview, and my boss actually accepted the blame and apologized. Uggghhhh

    9. Kathenus*

      From reading the post, comments, and your responses, one thing that I haven’t seen discussed yet is to ask for a meeting with HR, or with your boss and HR. The goal is to discuss the criteria for merit raises, so that you know what you need to be eligible for one. So framing it more as you wanting to understand the process and how you can position yourself to achieve a merit raise, versus why didn’t I get one now (although hopefully they’ll get the subtext without you saying it). That way if your boss not advocating is the roadblock, you’re getting HR’s input too and kind of giving notice that you have a goal of reaching the needed benchmarks for a raise. You’re being proactive for the future, and getting the topic out front and being discussed instead of having to continue to deal with the not knowing and feeling powerless. It may or may not get you the raise, but if done professionally it might help and it is very unlikely to hurt anything. Good luck!

    10. Bday Girl*

      I think you need to make a case for yourself. Write out everything you do that they know about and the things they don’t. Say how much you love it there and want to continue to work there, but that you were disheartened by not receiving a bonus because is seems they don’t value your work as much as your peers’ work. Be sincere without being accusatory. Advocate for yourself. Try to enlist the help of a sympathetic supervisor.

    11. FloralsForever*

      Recognition is important to me, so I have asked for it. Like, its almost as important as money for me, and I will consider leaving if I don’t feel my accomplishments are recognized, even if its just my boss recognizing them. It can feel a little egotistical (especially if you are a woman or a femme), but I think it is okay to point out what you’ve done: that you covered for open positions throughout the year, have a reliable department, etc. I simply take it as a case of that they just don’t know and you’re informing them. I don’t know what that will look like for you – sitting down with higher-ups, guarding your work a little more closely, etc. But I never really assume that ppl above me will congratulate of their own accord. It took a little unlearning that its okay to ask for what you want (a dysfunctional environment will do that), but I am much happier now.

    13. Claire*

      I feel for you. Last July I found out I wouldn’t get a merit bonus, and when I asked my manager what I could do better, he said, “Well, nothing really. You’re doing a great job.” Sometimes it’s simply politics. Or your manager doesn’t understand the kind of work you do. This might be a case where you have to decide if you want to stay or you decide it’s not worth the extra stress.

    14. Argh!*

      The same thing happened to me. I have had no luck changing things and have given up. I went from having the smallest raise to having no raise at all for two years due to questioning the wisdom of my overlords.

      Polish up the resume and focus on accomplishing things that will help you get your next job.

    15. Phoenix Programmer*

      Having read through your comments I recommend reading Alison’s letter on “is it possible to be too invested in work” and start working hard on setting up work boundaries.

      Conversely to what you might think, being overinvested in work actually diminishes how you are perceived as well as your overall performance. While you are overinvested you feel like you are the only person at the company who cares, but in reality you are probably coming across really negatively to not only co-workers but also bosses. This tends to show up at performance review time when your performance is lower than you expect you should get and all those other “lazy” people who are investing the correct amount of energy into work are somehow doing better than you.

      I say this as someone who also struggled with being overinvested in work. I had a family member pass and everything changed for me. Since then I’ve managed to keep work more balanced and to my surprise not only has my perceived performance improved, but I’m happier overall at work as well. It really does seem illogical but less can be more when you’re on the wrong side of the spectrum for job investment.

      Good luck and I wish you a happy future!

      1. TL -*

        Our department admin/manager is overinvested and convinced she keeps the place running – but she’s just okay as an admin so it really does come off the wrong way. Things fall through the cracks that shouldn’t, she doesn’t invest in building organization systems, and she is not easy to talk to to resolve issues. She’s generally okay overall and genuinely cares… but when I hear her complaining all the time, all I can think is “I have worked with admins many times better with much less complaining.”

        I don’t think that’s what is happening here, but it is worth thinking about if you’re coming off overinvested.

  2. Anonymous Train Wreck*

    4th round of layoffs in the last 12 months is currently in progress, and I’m watching it happen in real time, because you can see the user names being removed from the group chat app as IT pulls them after they’re laid off.These are pretty critical resources too; not people I would consider extraneous or bad at their jobs. This is the writing on the wall for me, and I’ll be dusting off my resume this weekend. Any advice for someone job hunting just 11 months into a career change? I came into this role internally, at the junior level, and I’ve spent most of this year learning this new role and managing projects that are pretty much in mainenance mode/already launched.I’m just now getting into working on projects from conception to launch, so my resume is still weaker than I’d like.

    1. AdAgencyChick*

      Oh no! First of all, good luck.

      Is there anyone from your current job who has recently moved to another company and you have a good relationship with? If so, I’d start with those people — ask whether there are other openings at their companies, or whether they know of anyone in their network who is. When you’re in a situation with a short tenure at your current job, it’s always good to have someone else put in a good word for why it makes total sense that you’d be looking around so soon.

    2. Can be rainy*

      Sorry you have to live through uncertain times. On one hand, this can be so unnerving. On the other hand, changing job will give you the opportunity to gain credibility as your future colleagues will not have seen you “interning” at junior lever for the last 11 months. It is also an opportunity to catch up on the missed salary raise (I presume a company doing layoffs has been stingy on the bonuses & raises).
      Good idea to dust the resume. Maybe consider a full makeover highlighting the soft skills carried over from before the career change? Your full work experience matters, not only the last 11 months. This website is full of effective advice on the subject of skill-based resume as opposed to chronological resume. Consider being evasive concerning the exact time of your career change (as it was within the same company), and describe the relevant accomplishments in logical succession (conception to launch to maintenance) rather than chronological. This would streamline the resume without being lying. You aim for short, concise and to the point (no more than 1-2 pages anyway). Best luck in your job search!

  3. Mrs. Meringue*

    how I do leave a less-than-optimal performance review for a supervisor? I’ve been promoted and will have new managers soon, and have been asked to provide feedback on my current supervisor. Here’s the thing – he’s a terrible manager. I am the only person he manages. He only comes to the office three or four times/month, but when he is here he nitpicks everything. He talks down to me and explains things to me like I am an idiot, despite knowing and having seen me complete the task before flawlessly. He nitpicks every small decision I make while working with the boss, and will complain extensively to me about the bosses decisions in a very confrontational way. I’ve outright told them, “i dont know why you are saying this to me since i obviously don’t make that call” but they continue. We have never had a informative or constructive conversation that didn’t include belittling my work, my intelligence, or someone else’s intelligence. One instance in particular, we had ordered lunch for the group, and someones order arrived prepared incorrectly. I am on the phone speaking with the restaurant about the mistake they had made and my supervisor is literally over my shoulder in my ear telling me what to say to the staff at the restaurant.
    I’ve been asked by my manager to provide honest feedback on this person. Despite him being a dept manager, he doesn’t actually do any managing of that dept. it’s really just me that he “supervises”. I can’t tell if he is just a Negative Nelson or what, but I want to be honest. I don’t want to leave my replacement with this mess, but I don’t know if providing honest feedback will help with that. Has anyone else ever left a negative review of a colleagues performance, let alone their supervisor?
    It’s probably important to mention that they will have extremely minimal working interaction with me in any sense after my promotion begins, but we all work out of the same small office, so it would still be awkward.
    Folks, what do I do here?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      Maybe I’m too cynical, but I feel that if they’ve allowed this manager to be as horrible as he’s been, they’re not suddenly interested in feedback that’s going to change things. That said, he will no longer be your supervisor, right? Could there be any repercussions for you if you leave negative (though specific) feedback?

        2. Dagny*

          They do need a paper trail if they want to terminate him. Realistically, it will be hard to get that information from anyone else.

          I would go with a very dispassionate but tough approach:
          “Fred struggles with professional norms.” Then list three recent examples, with dates.
          “Fred tends to micromanage employees.” (They promoted you. They know you are capable.) Provide examples.

      2. AvonLady Barksdale*

        I’m thinking the same thing. I think you have to weigh how much you want to get this off your chest vs. how effective it will be. I’ve been pondering this a lot myself, and ultimately I decided that I can make my displeasure and discomfort known as much as I want, but nothing will change.

        However, you will have a replacement, so maybe suggest that it would be helpful if he would let your replacement work independently or something. I’m not quite sure how I would approach it, to be honest, but definitely think about the results of the discussion.

      3. ISuckAtUserNames*

        Also, if OP is Mrs. M is the only one supervised by him, and he’s not in the office now they really might not know how bad he is. They may have heard things about him being a jerk to other people, or heard from people some of how he treats Mrs. M and are looking for her to give them more information.

        I say, since he’s only in the office a few times a month and you will be out of his line of sight, work-wise, might as well be honest. Give concrete examples & documentation as much as you can, but I don’t think there’s much risk to you and if you don’t say anything the company may not really be able to get rid of him until after he’s already treated others the same and someone speaks up.

    3. Sloan Kittering*

      This is so difficult because no matter what your company says it will obviously not be anonymous. I would try to give very veiled criticism that did not read as hostile – something you would be willing to own up to if he confronted. “Boss sometimes struggles to articulate clear goals” or something neutral and fact based. You are likely to keep running into this guy in your career even if he’s not going to be your boss after this. It’s like leaving a terrible exit interview – rarely pays off *for you.*

    4. Frozen Ginger*

      In what context are they asking for this feedback? Is it conversational, or does it sound like they already have concerns?

      1. Mrs. Meringue*

        I asked my manager why Supervisor was on my list of people to provide feedback for and they told me that since i work with them in a way nobody else does, they’d like my perspective, just like the rest of my colleagues on the list.

        1. Frozen Ginger*

          With your promotion, will you be on an equal level to your former supervisor? Because if the answer is yes, I’d go with being (professionally) honest. “Supervisor has a big problem with being condescending.” In fact I would use this direct line: “We have never had a informative or constructive conversation that didn’t include belittling my work, my intelligence, or someone else’s intelligence.”

          1. Camellia*

            I wouldn’t include the terms ‘informative’ and ‘constructive’ because they are positive terms and selective hearing could just light on those and ignore everything else. I would just say “We’ve never had a conversation about work that didn’t include…”

        2. Lora*

          Since it won’t be anonymous, and they aren’t super clear on how they intend to use this information, I would lean towards the “(significant pause) he remembers to tie his shoes every day…” method.

          Or, when I asked one of the junior engineers what on earth [a particularly useless site manager] actually DID all day, seeing as how I was being tasked with doing his job, he replied, “…I am unclear on Phil’s role in the organization.”

          Unless they are offering a very specific guarantee that the feedback will be kept confidential and you won’t have to deal with him EVER again, what incentive do you have to risk making your own life harder?

    5. Shark Whisperer*

      I understand the folks who think giving this sort of feedback might be a bad idea, but I think it’s worth giving. If you do decide to give feedback, try to give it as factual and emotionless as possible. Like “the fact that he only comes into the office three or four times a month makes it difficult to get one-on-one time with him to get feedback on my work.”

      1. Beancounter*

        What rubyrose and Shark Whisperer said. Give specific concrete examples and be as factual, rational, unemotional about it as possible. Give some good points on him, if you can think of any too, to show you’re balanced and rational.

        But the fact that he belittles your intelligence, your work and other people’s intelligence is abusive behavior. I’m glad you won’t be under him in the near future.

      2. designbot*

        Yep, state the truth but in as detached a manner as possible. “Very involved in minute details when present, despite things running smoothly when this input is not available.” “Interprets differences in style as a signal of low intelligence in employees.” etc.

    6. Karen from Finance*

      Be honest but focus on the facts as much as you can, and use softening language. But I think it’s your responsibility to be honest. And then if the company manages it poorly it will be on them, not on you.

    7. Checkert*

      I have always been of the mind of being honest (and give examples when possible) despite the possible consequences. It really shouldn’t be your responsibility to lie to keep the peace in the workplace and if it is made to be your responsibility, that should be a red flag to you. In my experience organizations asking for feedback is lip service and likely won’t have drastic results (even though it absolutely shouldn’t be), but I see that as all the more reason to be honest because it likely won’t come to anything. HOWEVER, if they are taking feedback then maybe yours will be the one on the pile that elicits change.

    8. LadeeDa*

      They shouldn’t be asking you for feedback of a manager unless it is a 360 type anonymous review. With only one direct report if his manager uses it as performance feedback it will be obvious where examples of his managerial skills came from. They should not be asking you for this. I wouldn’t give feedback on your for your former manager, and I would let them know why. “Since I am his only direct report I don’t feel comfortable giving feedback on his managerial skills, because if any of it is taken negatively, it will be obvious it came from me. “

    9. Cascadia*

      I have been in this exact situation. What I did is to think really carefully about the 2 or 3 most egregious things, and then come up with concrete examples of each of those items. Then, think carefully about how you want to word them. As others have said, keep it professional, unemotional, and try to pick examples that highlight things that were bad for your productivity/bad for the company. I would not use your lunch ordering example, because that doesn’t speak directly to how your work was affected, but I would use the examples that show him nitpicking your work product, etc. Also, I would try and use some “I statements” as well, as those can come off a little better. “I found {Supervisor} to be very challenging to work with for these reasons…” Make sure to use examples of things that happened to you, not things you’ve heard from other people.

    10. ..Kat..*

      If old boss’ boss (old grandboss) were actually going to manage your old boss, I think they would have done so before this. As such, I doubt any actual managing by old grandboss will happen because of your feedback. At most, I would give verbal feedback. Written feedback (especially this bad) has a way of biting the feedback-giver in the rear end.

  4. Standing desk hell*

    I’m in an open office that provides standing desks. Because we are set up opposite each other on a long table, standing up means that you are looming over the other person and kind of looking down on them making eye contact if you’re not careful. I don’t really care for a standing desk myself and don’t use it. However, our newest employee who sits right across from me has begun using his for many hours every day. I acknowledge that it’s his right, and the company provided this equipment so I don’t have the standing to ask him not to use it.

    The issues: 1) I am actively ducking to avoid eye contact with this guy. We work closely together so he does often lean to the side, catch my eye, and start talking to me. However he also bobs around all day when he’s standing – reaching for things next to him, and doing a little “standing dance.” I am actively working to tune him out and his movements. I have told him if he wants something from me he’s going to actively have to engage with me because I’m trying to tune him out (otherwise, I feel like I’m always tuned into his movements thinking he’s about to say something – I realized I was pausing to glance up every time he leans to the side). I also moved my screen to try to block my view of him. Middling success. 2) it makes his already booming voice project even louder when he’s standing. 3) I just feel kind of … loomed over. It feels like he’s got the highest chair in the room and I’m on a stool. I don’t like it, but I realize it’s my issue more than his.

    Any suggestions please?? I used to like this coworker and I find that I actively resent him now.

    1. The Rain in Spain*

      Can you adjust your computer placement so you’re not directly opposite him? Or are there perhaps dividers available?

      1. Moosic*

        I second these ideas. Even if your office doesn’t have dividers, you could make your own out of poster board, cardboard, or buy a trifold. Then you can decorate your side! Would another employee be willing to switch with you, or could he be switched to pair up with someone who also stands a lot?

    2. JJJJShabado*

      It’s (should be) on him to avoid eye contact. I have a standing desk in a row of cubicles. Thankfully I’m on the end so I don’t have much to see other than walls, but I avoid eye contact from people walking or in the area otherwise (I’m 6’5″ so my head is over my cube walls).

      1. Alice*

        It’s on him to avoid eye contact? OP said that, when standing guy actually intends to talk to OP, he leans to the side and catches her eye. The rest of the time, (it sounds to me at least), he’s not making eye contact, he’s looking at his screen in a way that OP is in the background. I don’t see how he can avoid that other than not using the standing desk.
        A divider is a great idea, and I think it’s OP’s role to get one (as the person who doesn’t like the situation). If OP were to say “it’s on you to stop looking at me, so you need to figure out how to set up a divider,” I’d be taken aback.
        Hope it works out happily OP!

    3. Reba*

      You don’t have “standing” :)

      Possible to add some kind of partition, since I’m guessing you can’t wholly rearrange the desks or the way you are facing.

      You have my sympathy on the whole movement in one’s line of sight being hugely distracting! Sometimes I feel like I still need the little cardboard desk shelters we used for test taking at my elementary school.

    4. Ama*

      This is how my office is set up with regard to standing desks, but I don’t think that’s been an issue for us — I don’t have direct experience as I lucked into one of the few cubicles here with high walls, but I do have a few coworkers in the shorter wall area that prefer to use the standing desk so I’m trying to think why we’ve avoided this problem, as far as I know.

      One thing I think works is that our desks are pretty wide which cuts down on how much your coworkers catch your peripheral vision (I did spend some time in the shorter walled cubicles and people really did have to come right up to your desk to get your attention). My coworker that uses the standing desk most often also has double monitors set up so that one kind of blocks her view into the adjacent cubicle — even if she’s looking that direction she would have to step to the side to get that coworker’s attention. Also she is at the front of a row, facing the main walk way through the office — I think she actually gets the worst of it in that position because everyone stops to chat with her as they walk by since she’s up at their level.

      So perhaps he could move his monitors? You could phrase it as “giving you both a little less distraction from seeing each other moving around.”

      1. OP*

        Ooh, I’d love to suggest that he get double monitors, since that sounds like I’m just really nice haha versus stewing over here in my own resentful juices

      2. Jules the 3rd*

        We just got standing desk options for our cubes, which all have 4′ walls and are right next to each other. Trifold shields are abounding.

        1. TechWorker*

          Yup we have the same setup – though with a short divider (only maybe 12 inches, so easily short enough to see over but we decided it was so if one person is sitting and the opposite one is standing you’re not staring at the standing persons crotch….) anyway we all have double monitors and they’re a pretty good desk level screen, I have to walk a few feet in either direction if I want to chat to the person opposite me.

    5. Hillary*

      Honestly, I’d talk to him. Tell him that his movement catches your attention and suggest a screen (Ikea has an inexpensive one that can be attached to standing desks, it would probably be more effective on his side).

      For the booming voice, I worked with a guy who didn’t realize how much more he projected when he was standing. I brought it up with a joke about choir and voice lessons to defuse the tension. It’s a diaphragm thing that non-singers don’t always realize. The guy tried to be more mindful of his volume and also not talk towards me when standing. Then I did the same thing when I got a standing desk and got the same treatment back. ;-)

    6. Salamander*

      This is what a big, beautiful, three-foot tall plant (real or artificial) is for. Block him out with a beautiful, lush, thick piece of nature. Maybe get two. Nobody can get mad at you for something as ordinary as a ficus, right?

    7. only acting normal*

      When they introduced standing desks in my office, after a few months they added taller screens to them that move with the desk, so as the desk rises so does the screen.

      If you need an extra argument for a screen: They should have screens just for safety reasons – so stuff/fingers can’t get trapped between the two as they are raised and lowered, and so things can’t fall off the high desk onto the lower one.

    8. Anon Anon Anon*

      I would get a screen – a divider to put between the two desks. You could probably get your employer to pay for it, but if it were me, I would just buy a cheap one or make one. And when I brought it in, I’d make it 100% about me and leave other people and the standing desk thing out of it. I’d say it’s to help me focus. Then I’d decorate the screen with the usual stuff people put in their offices, and other people would probably take interest and start doing the same thing. Voila. Office weirdness problem solved.

  5. Mint*

    Is there any truth to the saying that people who were popular/successful in high school have pretty much peaked there and tend to struggle later?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      Sometimes there is. But I think a lot of it is confirmation bias. If you happen to believe that’s true and then see one instance of it, that anecdote will reinforce the “truth” for you. I will say, though, burnout could be real—either on the emotional or the academic side (or both). If you killed yourself to be top of your class or the most popular, you may run out of steam later.

      1. Sloan Kittering*

        TBH I think beautiful and confident people have an ongoing leg up. Not always, but it rarely hurts. There’s all sorts of data about the benefit of the doubt that is routinely extended to attractive people. On the other hand, some of high school popularity tends to be about individuals who do forbidden / adult things ahead of schedule – drinking, sex, etc. That type of risk taking doesn’t end up being great long term, and the things that were outre for a sixteen year old eventually become commonplace among 30 year olds.

        1. Karen from Finance*

          I think it can go both ways.

          A lot of popularity in high school comes from things that don’t necessarily make you popular as an adult. Looks may fade or they may stay in different cases, but a lot of this is people being “cool”. Meanwhile, (some) unpopular people spend years practicing how to navigate social norms, how to make friends, how to come off better and so on. So in the rules of the adult world which are a bit different, some of the unpopular kids from high school have been practicing for years while some of the popular kids from high school don’t understand why everyone doesn’t instantly like them for their designer bag or whatever.

          But also yes, some of the popular kids in high school adjust well to adulthood and have this leg up, while some of the unpopular kids ever gain ant new social skills (and sometimes may grow resentful for that).

          Personally I wasn’t popular at school. I’m about as successful as the girls who were popular in school. But they are all almost exclusively friends with each other while I find it easier to make new friends.

          *Shrug*

    2. Foreign Octopus*

      I’d say nah. I think people just say that because it may be harder for those popular/successful people in the real world because the system where they’ve been popular/successful is no longer the one they have to flourish in and they have to learn how to succeed in the new one so maybe it takes longer to get going.

    3. Shark Whisperer*

      I don’t think so. Most of the “popular” kids in my high school were the super rich kids. They’re pretty much all doing great, at least from an outside perspective. Some of the kids who partied the most in high school went on to have substance abuse issues, so went to rehab and are thriving, some are still struggling, but I don’t think that really has anything to do with peaking or with popularity.

      1. Sloan Kittering*

        Yeah, wealth can be a factor. It can mean you have stylish expensive designer clothes and good hair / skin in high school, which can make you more popular in HS (also you can invite people on expensive trips with you / have a great house for parties, which definitely doesn’t hurt) – and then as you go on, it can mean you can afford to go to a prestigious college, which can have career benefits down the line. As long as you can avoid the heavy drugs / drinking aspects, coming from a rich family sets you up pretty well for life. But who is surprised about that really?

    4. plant lady*

      I agree with the previous two commenters. Anyway, what defines “popular” or “successful” is so different from high school to high school. If you went to a high school where the “popular kids” drank or did drugs heavily, that could lead to a high number of them having issues later on – but that’s not the case at every high school. If your “popular” kids were extreme bullies, that could lead them to disadvantages later on, as professors or bosses don’t appreciate that kind of behavior. But lots of high schools have popular/successful groups of students who are simply very outgoing and confident – plus often physically attractive, slightly wealthier than the average student, and often athletically gifted – while still being overall friendly, well-adjusted, reasonably intelligent folks (very few of them were bullies), and most of them are doing really well for themselves now. (And I’ll that unfortunately and obviously, physically attractive people and wealthy people tend to get advantages every step along the line, whether or not it’s necessarily deserved.)

      1. Sloan Kittering*

        Yeah a lot of our popular kids were like, athletic student council president types. They’re uh doing fine now too.

        1. LaurenB*

          The stereotypical popular kid from my high school became a physiotherapist. (Not based on any scientific evidence!) Athletic ability, outgoing personality and high academic achievement pretty much describes the popular kids in my school.

    5. Roscoe*

      I think its something people like to tell themselves to feel better. Kind of like “well you were awesome in high school, but I’ll be signing your checks in 20 years”. When in reality there isn’t really any actual correlation in my experience. Some pretty smart kids I knew are doing nothing, and some of the less talented popular kids are doing great things.

      I think people, especially people who feel they weren’t given their due in high school, want to believe in some sort of karmic justice. In reality, I think how you were in high school has very little to do with how you do as an adult.

      1. Sloan Kittering*

        Yeah agree. It’s not never true, it’s not always true. What is true is that everybody’s life changes a lot after high school and the things that were important then don’t define what happens next.

      2. Indie*

        I agree with you but sometimes it is true. I’ve worked in schools where kids feel (sometimes with justification) that they are looking down the barrel at a rough life and they pretty much decide ‘this is our time’. They eschew everything but fun and popularity and sometimes aggressively go after the hard working kids or those who are luckier in their families.

        Of course there are schools where this isnt the dynamic and the popular kids are nice and work hard. Or they have the kind of background where there are plenty of second chances.

      3. Lissa*

        Yeah, I was going to say something similar. No, I don’t think it’s true but I think media reinforces it and people like to believe it. It’s the same reason, though, why there’s a stereotype about how somebody can’t be (for instance) athletic and ALSO smart, or conventionally attractive and ALSO nice.

        In real life people don’t all start with equal amounts of XP like in a video game. I don’t really think there’s much correlation. And yet another wrinkle in this is that people very often perceive themselves to have been less popular in high school than others considered them to be.

        One thing I have noticed though is a big correlation where kids labeled gifted in elementary school really struggle in their 20s. This could just be anecdotal on my part, but I see it again and again. I think there might be something to the idea that telling little kids over and over how smart they are doesn’t set them up for success.

        1. Sloan Kittering*

          Yeah I think that’s actually an inverse that we don’t discuss very often. Sure, sometimes jocks burn out after their high school glory days are over, but also … people who are ID’d early as geniuses burn out at probably similar rates. I think the trick is to try to be well rounded, develop social skills and confidence, and don’t get too hung up on any external signifiers if they’re not meaningful to you.

        2. Dagny*

          Kids who are labelled as “gifted” burn out for a specific reason: they believe that their smarts make them special, and almost everyone hits a point at which brainpower is not enough. Brains, looks, athleticism, etc. – the kids who do the best are the ones who combine natural talent with an incredible work ethic.

        3. Kit-Kat*

          Oh I definitely think that’s a thing. (I often see this on college or grad school forums, and know people who’ve experienced this.) Especially if they’re a kid who’s kind of coasted through school, and never had to study. Eventually, they’ll be challenged in some way and may not know how to cope or problem solve.

        4. nonegiven*

          The really smart kids that skate through school, sometimes they don’t get diagnosed with ADHD until they flunk out of college.

        5. NACSACJACK*

          I am one of those brainiac kids. I struggled in college and I struggle in real life when tasks dont come easy to me.

    6. OtterB*

      I think it depends on why they were popular/successful in high school. Some people are cliquish and exclusionary and at the top of the heap by manipulating others. Some genuinely are showing the beginning of good leadership skills by supporting/encouraging others and coordinating successful efforts. I think the second kind tend to last. The first kind may struggle when they hit an environment that expects them to actually contribute, not just define themselves as cool.

      Or at least I’d like to believe it works that way.

      1. That Girl From Quinn's House*

        I agree with this, this matches my observation. Someone who was popular in high school because they were kind, friendly, and inclusive to others, or had a unique skill, is likely to be successful in life. Someone who was popular in high school because they were cliquish, mean bullies whose social value was wrapped up in their parents’ permissiveness might find themselves at a disadvantage in life.

        But in general, a lot of people don’t end up as “special” as they’d think they did in high school. My class year graduated into the recession, and going back and looking at how everyone turned out has a minimal correlation as to who they were in high school. The kids who had parental financial support during the bleakest part of the recession came out ahead.

    7. Joielle*

      I think it depends on how well they handle the transition to college and the workplace. Especially at a smaller high school, a popular kid might have been a big fish in a small pond, and it can be hard to suddenly be not special, not popular, just one in a crowd. If a person can handle that transition with humility and with some perspective on their experience, I think they can do just fine.

      1. Windchime*

        I went to a very small high school in a small town. The popular kids were people whose parents had money so they had the nice clothes, the cars, and the ability (money) to participate in all the extra-cirricular activites. Most of those people have stayed in that small town and are still big fish in a small pond but I wonder how they would do if they were transplanted to a bigger pond with more competition.

    8. Someone Else*

      It can be, but it’s depends on a lot on how one defines “popular/successful in high school”. I’ve found if the scenario you mention is true, it tends to be true for those who personally put a lot of weight on the fact that they were “popular/successful” in high school. If that makes sense?
      Like plenty of people had sufficient friends and did well at any number of things, and those people are not more or less likely to have peaked in high school.
      But people who, in high school, were All About how popular and/or successful they were at being a popular/successful high schooler, those are more likely to fit the stereotype. Like, if someone too closely resembles the villain in a teen-movie, watch out. But I suspect it’s because those people were so focused on something that was always going to be a very small portion of their lives, they get sort of stuck there. Whereas if someone were more like “I aim to do well at whatever I’m doing” and what they were doing at the time was high school, and later it’s college/work/something else…then those people just…do it.

    9. Nacho*

      people who were popular/successful in high school are usually charismatic and have good people skills, which is a benefit no matter where you work. People who are unpopular/shunned in highschool are often (though not always) assholes with poor social skills.

      1. plant lady*

        Aw, come on now – are you just trolling or playing devil’s advocate or something here? We can’t make blanket statements about ANY of these stereotype groups. As Roscoe said above, “I think how you were in high school has very little to do with how you do as an adult.” Some people who were unpopular or shunned in high school had poor social skills, sure. Some may have been assholes. But many others were super shy, or were different in some way that teens couldn’t deal with and were mean about, or had really difficult challenges at home that left no time to focus on the high school social scene, or didn’t have money for new clothes or phones or whatever, or any number of other reasons that still left them a good person.

      2. plant lady*

        Come on. Popular people can be nice or assholes or anywhere in between. Same with unpopular kids. Sure, some of them might be jerks, but often kids who are shunned or unpopular in HS are just super shy, or different in some way that teens don’t know how to handle, or dealing with crazy challenges at home that leave them no time to worry about high school social dynamics, or don’t have money for hot running water or much food or new clothes, or a billion other things that have nothing to do with whether or not they’re a good person.

        1. Anon Anon Anon*

          Yes! That’s how it was at my school. There were nice and mean people in each of the groups. The popular kids generally came from more stable homes, seemed more “normal,” and looked fashionable – often because of their financial situation, but some were just good at looking stylish without having much money. But it was such a superficial thing, looking back on it. It was all about what you looked like. A lot of the less popular kids were – as you said – different in ways that kids don’t know how to handle. Some didn’t have much money. Some came out as queer or trans later. Some had physical quirks or personality traits that made the other kids uncomfortable. And some were just nerdy – took school seriously and didn’t care about being cool.

          But,thinking about it, “popular” was kind of a misnomer. Those kids weren’t actually well-liked. They were considered “popular,” but they were actively resented for it and looked down upon. People thought they were just air heads who only cared about fashion. I always kind of saw the good in people but was an outcast who didn’t fit into any of the groups. And I’m still basically like that later in life.

      3. plant lady*

        Whoops – my first comment didn’t show up and I thought I’d navigated away without saving it, so I re-posted! Sorry about that.

      4. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain*

        I wouldn’t necessarily say shunned people are assholes, but yes the social skills or self esteem fairy isn’t likely going to one day hit them upside the head. And popular kids — even if they were bullies — will likely continue to be popular because they know how to influence people either positively or negatively. The nerdy kid will probably continue to struggle with social interaction into adulthood. The difference though is that adult success is measured differently than high school success. An adult can be super successful — financially, politically, intellectually — and still lack social skills. And the super charismatic person with lots of friends can still struggle with getting or keeping a job.

      5. gmg22*

        Yeah, um, interesting framing here. In my small, rural high school, you could be popular via one of three routes: 1)being an athlete, 2)being a party animal, or 3)having wealthy or prominent parents. (Ideally you would have at least two of these, TBH.) Any of these traits seemed to also increase the likelihood that these kids would as often as not be, well, not very nice to their less popular peers. “Unpopular/shunned” kids may have had poor social skills, but the assholes were definitely concentrated among the in-crowd. (Note that for this age group I define “asshole” as “bully,” not “lacking in social skills” — I see teens in the latter situation as requiring compassion, not scorn looking back from 20 years later.)

      6. The Man, Becky Lynch*

        You sound like you used to be a popular kid. How nice.

        No. We were shunned for being awkward and not interested in playing sports. How dare we be shy, quiet and ugly ducklings…suuuure we were the a$sholes.

        That’s disgusting to say.

      7. Thursday Next*

        @Nacho This is very reductive and, I suspect, will be hurtful to many people.

        As many comments here have pointed out, different high school communities valued different definitions of popularity, for one, and people who are unpopular might have been outliers for a variety of reasons unrelated to poor social skills. Maybe someone was the only immigrant/minority/LGBT kid in their high school.

    11. Temperance*

      With the people I grew up with, it’s honestly kind of mixed. I’m from a rural-ish area, and there are a ton of stereotypical losers who never left town and still talk about HS football in their 40s. The mean girl in my grade is now one of the local kindergarten teachers – I am forever grateful that my niece is not in her class, because she is a truly terrible human being – and her BFF has some swanky corporate finance job in Philadelphia.

      1. Traffic_Spiral*

        Yeah, I think especially in rural places where the only options are “get mediocre job and have babies” then yes, the popular kids sorta peak in high school… but so do most the other kids. Life’s tough for all of them there, and the kid who spent his time huffing paint isn’t doing any better.

        1. Temperance*

          Honestly, a good portion of us left for better opportunities. The other smart kids who are still there have good, stable jobs (doctors etc.). The kids who didn’t do well in school are sort of screwed, though.

    12. Boredatwork*

      I will say, from my high-school, which was a private, college oriented prep school, the most popular kids did indeed not do (as) well as adults.

      I think Sloan Kittering really hit the nail on the head, facebook has clearly documented that the behavior that made them “cool” lead to some seriously undesirable adult traits.

    13. Muriel Heslop*

      Some of them do. And it depends on the high school. It tends to be the ones that overvalue high school’s importance and their own contributions to it. Those whose maturity peaks in high school tend to be those that peaked in high school. (I used to teach high school and I loved when kids came back so I could see how they were doing.)

      I

    14. Observer*

      Totally not. You’ve gotten some pretty good explanations for this. But the bottom line is that being Miss Popularity or voted “Most likely to succeed” or anything or the sort doesn’t tell you much about that student’s prospects down the line.

    15. Not So NewReader*

      There may be some credence to that.
      I do think that when I was in high school, I never thought about what people would be like 10-20-30 years out. So I was surprised to see that the popular kids did not always remain popular. Those dots never connected in my head during high school. I just figured some kids had the world by the tail and some kids didn’t, I was lucky enough to be somewhere in between the two extremes.
      I must not be the only one who did not think of the future in high school, that would explain the popularity of the expression “peaked in high school”. Others have gotten blind-sided by that one also.

      Sadly a few folks died shortly after high school and that was a real shocker/eye-opener. It changed my perspective for sure.

    16. theletter*

      If you’re speaking just in terms of looks, I think there are some stories of people who just looked their best in the bloom of youth, while others hit their strides in their mid-thirties.

      Behind that, popularity and success is always going to be in the eye of the beholder. On a long enough timeline, everyone is going to have to struggle with something. Money, charm, and athletic skills do not comprehensively protect anyone from disease, death, break-ups and loss.

      the most popular kid in my 8th grade class, a boy who bullied me mercilessly, committed suicide at 24 after struggling with bipolar depression. He is not the only student in that relatively small, privileged graduating class who died young. When I think about those kids that bullied me, I remember that I’m alive, and they’re not. I mourn for them, as weird as it sounds, because of the pain they went through as young adults, the forces that took them, mean that they’ll never be able to look back and say “I’m a better now.” Their redemption arc has ended. Any time I spent being mad or scared of them has only informed my future now. In these relationships, only my future matters. I have to leave them where they laid down, in distant memories now sanded down to softened blobs by the winds of time. I don’t have any other choice in the matter.

    17. JudyInDisguise*

      Depends on how you define success. If you were a successful at being a bully in high school, you’re probably making someone miserable at work right now! *Ooh, sorry – flashback.* I’m alright. Carry on.

    18. Lissa*

      I think this is a movie/tv trope that has entered the public consciousness to some degree. But, the “all popular kids are asshole bullies and the picked-on kids are all smart cool loser types” dynamic isn’t as common as 80s movies and so on would portray. Of course it is sometimes but in my experience the mean kids weren’t the popular kids – they were often struggling themselves.

      I talked above about why this is appealing to a lot of people – the karmic justice thing. I also think that for people who put a ton of weight on something often end up really stumbling later on. I’ve seen this dynamic play out in several ways. The “smart kid” who was told all through their childhood they’d be a gifted genius who ends up not living up to that. The high school football player reminiscing about the big game. The guy who finally found “his people” in college nerdy activities who can’t get past being King Geek at 20.

      1. Ann O'Nemity*

        I agree about it being a movie trope. Just like the unpopular “geek” who later becomes a billionaire tech mogul.

    19. Parenthetically*

      In my experience, it depends. Popular, successful, kind people remain so. Popular, successful people who were mainly so because they were rich or well-connected (or, as Sloan Kittering aptly notes, precocious in adult risk-taking) either outgrow their cliquishness and party mindset or don’t. I’m perpetually surprised at how little the cliques of my high school years matter to the people I graduated with. I’m not friends with many of them on social media but I’ll occasionally see pictures of groups of folks and it makes me laugh to see jocks, band nerds, D&D outcasts, preppy girls, potheads, wannabe gangbangers, and fringers all in the same shot having a drink or whatever.

      The ones who struggle in my observation are the ones whose parents made Winning The Big Game/Being The Most Popular seem like the ultimate life goal. Most of my classmates — or at least what I’d call a representative sample — are at least moderately successful and happy.

      1. catwoman2965*

        I agree with a lot of what you’re saying. My HS years weren’t horrible, but also not wonderful. I wasn’t popular in HS, I had friends, but was also painfully shy and think i also suffer from a bit of social anxiety. I only kept in touch with a couple people from HS, and I was ok with that.

        I avoided any and all reunions until my 25th (about 10 years ago). I was anxious about going due to my issues but decided WTH and made plans to go with a friend. one of the few I still kept in touch with. I ALMOST backed out a week or so before but as my friend “outed” me on the reunion FB page that we were both going I sucked it up.

        And I’m glad I did. I would say for the most part, no one cared who you were in HS, who you hung out with, what activities you were involved in, with the exception of some of the “mean girls” who pretty much kept to themselves at the reunion and didn’t socialize too much with anyone outside their “clique”

        But everyone else? Friendly, welcoming etc. once you figured out who was who since many looked nothing like they did back in HS! All in all it was fun, and reconnected with a ton of people, and have become good friends with many who I didn’t know well in HS or hang out with.

    20. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      Are they popular because they play sports at a cruddy level basic high school? As in they’re not going to ever play college ball or leave your dirt town?

      Then yeah they peak often.

      Are they from a rich family or with a college future? Them they’ll probably be fine.

      I’ve seen both.

      The good news is most grow into decent humans who will apologize to you at your 10 year reunion. The others didn’t even show up but we already know where they landed and they weren’t missed.

    21. gmg22*

      I agree with others that there is no one-size-fits-all answer to this question. Thinking about the in-crowd kids from my high school days (some of them were my extended-family members, while I was in the second-tier music-geek crowd, which made things extra interesting): Some of them have done fine both personally and career-wise; some of them have struggled in one of these areas but not the other; some of them have definitely not lived up to the potential they could have had, because they were too busy being “cool” at a crucial time; and a few of them didn’t make it to our current age (40s) thanks to substance abuse problems.

    22. Cascadia*

      Really interesting discussion here and I definitely agree with most of what is being said. It’s just too hard to say and it all depends on how you define “success” and what made kids popular at your school. As a somewhat tangent, it is interesting to note that most of the students who got the best grades in their class, the valedictorians, usually don’t make it to the top of the career path. They are definitely still successful by all means! But what they’ve shown is that the students who are really great at getting A’s in a lot of classes are very hard working, but usually lack the creativity/passion/spark that leads someone to be a world-changing super-impactful person. Super interesting stuff! http://money.com/money/4779223/valedictorian-success-research-barking-up-wrong/

      1. Sloan Kittering*

        Certainly makes sense to me. I was good at school because the rules were clear, but the real world has a lot more moving pieces. You don’t get as much credit for emotional intelligence in coursework.

    23. plant lady*

      It’s kind of interesting to think about the different dynamics between more urban and more rural schools too. I went to a ~1000 person public high school in the inner ring of a major city, and there wasn’t a stigma associated with “not moving away”, since we already lived in a pretty interesting, metropolitan area with tons of colleges and universities nearby. (Lots of people, myself included, did go to college or get jobs out of state, while plenty of other stayed in the area.) It seems like some people from rural areas associate later success with moving away from the hometown.

      1. gmg22*

        It’s a double-edged sword, I think. People who move away get the combo of being associated with success, but also sometimes looked at slightly askance when they visit home (I think this is an example of what the Brits call “tall poppy syndrome”).

        As someone who moved away and then came back quite a few years later, I’d be interested in hearing how that particular sequence of events is experienced in different places. My home state is small and rural but people here grow up with a very strong sense of place and appreciation of the lifestyle, and I think that is a powerful force pulling some of us back. (But not all of us, because the job market here is likewise small and can be a challenge to navigate …)

      2. Temperance*

        That’s definitely true, but it’s mostly because there aren’t a ton of opportunities, and, at least in my case, the people tend to be really small-minded. I’m glad to know a diverse group of people now, and I have access to arts, entertainment, and cultural opportunities beyond the local minor league baseball team.

        1. Windchime*

          This is how I feel, too. My hometown was a great place to grow up but now I live where there are lots more opportunities and I work with people from all over the world. I think I would really miss that if I moved back to the rural part of my state; it’s not diverse in the least and many people have a thought process similar to the 1950’s.

    24. CRM*

      There were definitely some popular kids at my school who ended up with objectively awesome lives, which their natural confidence, good looks, and charm no-doubt helped them achieve. But there were also some popular kids whose early years of promiscuity and drug use lead them down a bad path into a very difficult life. The majority of them landed somewhere in-between.

      Mint: If you’re currently a high school student, I’d strongly urge you to stop focusing on the popular kids and start focusing on yourself. Figure out what makes you happy, work hard, and be a good person. You’ll become successful in your own right, and 20 years from now you wont be worrying about where everyone else ended up. Good luck!

    25. PinkyTuscadero*

      I think it depends on where the popularity initially came from. Kindness and talent can breed popularity and future success. Those who gained the popularity through means not attached to kindness may have peaked and could struggle later, especially if they never had to work for anything that was given to them in high school and continue to feel entitled.

    26. Armchair Analyst*

      Not about this in all, but one of my favorite people in the world (ok, my brother) was the kind of kid that grown-ups liked and kids didn’t. Guess what. Eventually, we’re all grown-ups, and he’s very well-liked and good at what he does and stuff he likes. He’s got a great family. Super successful, rich, popular, cool? Not at all. But doing well? Yeah, he’s great.

    27. Lilysparrow*

      Not necessarily.

      But I think it is true the other way around: when people who were successful/popular in high school encounter their first major life struggles later on, they are tempted to feel like they peaked early or it was “the best years of their lives,” so they can become overly nostalgic for that time.

      If they successfully push through that illusion to a more realistic view, they gain wisdom and maturity.

    28. Anon Anon Anon*

      I think it depends a lot on why someone was popular/unpopular and how it affected them. And I’ve been on all sides of that, as a kid and as an adult. I’ve had my ups and downs. :-)

      Some kids develop substance abuse problems because of the party lifestyle that can come with being popular, and that can lead to other problems (academic, legal, psychological, health issues, etc). Some kids are popular because their parents are partiers or really hands-off and tolerant of everything, which is fun when you’re young but often doesn’t create a good support system for academic success and success later in life. However, a lot of kids are popular essentially because their parents are better off than the other parents. Or just well connected. Their parents are popular in the adult community. So the kids are confident, look fashionable, and have all the cool stuff. Those people continue to have advantages because of their parents’ money and connections.

      Conversely, a lot of the less popular kids – looking back on things – just came from different backgrounds and maybe stood out because of other differences. There were the kids who took school really seriously and wore old, ill-fitting thrift store clothes and their parents drove older cars. They were bullied because of their economic status combined with prioritizing school over having a social life. Those people went on to be successful, for the most part. Some kids were unpopular because of a disability or just unusual social behavior – stuff that is also stigmatized in the adult world. Or they came from a dysfunctional kind of home, or something like that. That stuff can continue to hold people back.

      But when I think about this, I also note that you don’t really know how successful anyone else is, aside from really obvious stuff. I mean that you don’t know what their priorities are and how satisfied they are with where they ended up. Are they happy with their career path? With their marriage or lack thereof? Who knows. And this stuff changes throughout life. The person who has a good job now might not in ten years and vice versa. Life has ups and downs. I think the main takeaway is that comparisons to other people are a distraction. It’s something to overcome; redirect your energy into things you can control and building the best life that you can for yourself.

    30. Kuododi*

      I’m not really sure but inclined to agree….in general. I’ve been thinking about my Dad and how he struggled to get to his current situation in life. He grew up in horrible poverty in the extreme rural SE USA. (ie- his family couldn’t afford indoor plumbing and running H2O until he was a senior in high school). He was the first person on his side of the family to not only finish high school but go to college. He was painfully, painfully shy as a child and a young adult. He chose to not only work hard to put himself through college but pushed himself to step out from his isolation as a introverted, shy person. All he really wanted to do was sit in his cubicle and work on engineering and design problems. Long story short, he worked very hard, saved $$ and made wise decisions about the family future. He was able to retire after a long and well respected career knowing he and Mom would be well prepared for retirement. He also gives much back to his local church and community at large. (I’m not the least bit proud of Dad….! ). ;) He and Mom have been involved, committed parents from the beginning. I am thankful for his having modeled a life of commitment, compassion, learning and hard work.

      I have probably gotten a bit off track but I hope my response has been a help. Best regards

    31. Deranged Cubicle Owl*

      I do admit that I sometimes fantasize about the few persons who made my (school-)life a hell, in my early teens, and that they have low-paying jobs or bad relationships or the likes. But there was one person that indeed didn’t have (or still hasn’t got?) a nice life, and I felt sorry for that person.

      However, I think that the case is the exception to the rule. Most successful teens were indeed from nice, upper-middle-class families, most of them are doing really nice. Even the one popular person from my class without a high school diploma.

      At the university there was a guy that failed a first year class 5 times (after which the university said they couldn’t let him retake it again for a 6th, normally if you were to fail a class twice, you were strongly advised to find another education career, but he came from a wealthy family). Since his father had a nice firm, he works there now. Don’t get me wrong, that classmate is a great guy, and he does a good job, but he wouldn’t be in a high management (and a very well paying) function without his connection (and he certainly wouldn’t have gotten so many chances to repeat that class – which was a necessity for getting a diploma. – Non USA, btw. Don’t know how education, failing a class, and how many chances you get to retake it, works in the US.)

  6. Sunny*

    Coworker uses baby talk on calls with her boyfriend.

    Is there anything more irritating and cringe-inducing?

    2. Foreign Octopus*

      Baby talk is right up there for me, like nails on a chalkboard.

      How people find that sexy is beyond me.

      1. Deranged Cubicle Owl*

        Yeah, don’t get it either. If my partner (if I had one, that is) were to talk to me like that, I would be without a partner asap.

    3. WellRed*

      We had a restaurant review in the local paper this week that called out the bartender for speaking in baby talk to customers. She actually said, “Bud Wight.”

        1. WellRed*

          She talked like that for 15 solid minutes so I think it’s safe to assume it was baby talk. I would love to have been a fly on the wall at the staff meeting after that review came out (there were, not surprisingly, other service issues with other staff).

        2. That Girl From Quinn's House*

          I have two friends with an L to W speech impediment. If you watch Big Bang Theory it’s the one Barry Kripke has, and I’ve never found that joke to be particularly funny.

        3. shep*

          Same here. I knew a girl who was very well-spoken and intelligent and was unable to pronounce her “r”s, and I could definitely see it being interpreted as baby talk from someone who just has some brief interaction with her.

        4. Lissa*

          I imagine not – there’s a big difference between someone who pronounces Ls and Ws but otherwise speaks normally and someone for whom that’s a part of an overall baby-talk, uh, experience.

      4. Rebecca*

        Eww. I have a student – who is a child – who uses baby talk in my class and I absolutely think it’s my responsibility to teach her to cut that crap out.

    4. Muriel Heslop*

      A coworker who baby talks with her mom would be worse?

      Seriously, that would make me crazy. I don’t even baby talk with my actual baby. Any chance she doesn’t realize she is doing it?

        1. SavannahMiranda*

          My sister in law is a driven and highly successful surgeon who retrained after her first surgical specialty for a new specialty, simply because she liked the new one better. In other words, an absolutely no nonsense person. She takes nothing from no one.

          I’ve caught her baby talking her husband. She changes to a higher pitched tone, and shifts her sentences to end in the style of questions that aren’t questions at all (upspeak). Occasionally she includes a wheedling tone. She basically sounds like a 40-year old little girl. Imagine a verbal batting of eyelashes.

          It is utterly disturbing, especially from such an accomplished and driven individual. Nails on chalkboard. I guess everybody has foibles and peccadilloes, but I always feel it’s way too much information about the personal dynamics of their marriage.

          I don’t think she knows she does it. That’s the only conclusion I could come to. She certainly has me too intimated to say anything to her about it.

    5. Bunny Girl*

      I have never reacted positively to baby talk of any kind. I had a now ex boyfriend who tried it exactly once and I told him I dried up like the Sahara and he never tried it again.

    6. LKW*

      Perhaps as a counter point use a Pirate Accent with all your personal calls at work
      “Aye matey! I’ll see you when the bells chime 7. Arrrrrr!”

    7. Seifer*

      One of our managers’ wife calls constantly, and each time he cheerfully answers the phone with a pet name. Glad your marriage is great. I really don’t want to know about it.

      1. AvonLady Barksdale*

        Tell you what, I’d rather hear, “Hey Pookie!” than baby talk any day. Unless it’s constant “You’re a shmoopy!”

    8. Lumen*

      Had a coworker whose wife would call him every day at the office and they’d talk for extended periods. He was loud, and often talked in cutesy voices, called her ‘baby’, etc. At least once, he had her on speakerphone and she called him ‘big daddy’. If he was away from his desk or on the phone with a client, she would call the front desk (mind you, these weren’t emergencies). When asked if he could advise her not to do that, he made a joke about beating her.

      So… yeah. I can think of how that could be *more* cringe-inducing.

      1. catwoman2965*

        Not work related but a close friend has a long-distance BF who repeatedly posts on FB “my baby, can’t wait to spend Valentine’s Day with my baby (insert friends name)” over and over and over, other sickeningly sappy endearments, plus he uses enough emojis to choke a horse. I’m always thinking how old are you? Fifteen? Nope, both mid-forties. Ewwwww. Thankfully she is not like that, but if i were dating someone who did that, i’d be telling him to knock it off ASAP.

    9. Lena Clare*

      The woman who wanted everyone to call her boyfriend Master might be more irritating and embarrassing but this is a close second, yuk. I would hate to hear this.
      Have you talked to her about it?

    10. Zombeyonce*

      Next time she hangs up the phone ask her,”Oh, so how’s Bobby Wobby doing these daysie waysies?”

    11. Lissa*

      Ughhh please no. I’m a monster because I don’t even like that internet “doggo speak” stuff that is typed out baby talk from the perspective of animals.

      1. Crystalline*

        If it makes you feel any better, I despise those captions, too. Every time a cute video pops up followed by “SILLY HOOMAN, I AM BESTIEST BORKIEST BORK BORK!” I die a little inside. I know it’s supposed to be cute. *Supposed to be.* Ugh.

        1. mananana*

          +1. And I’m the person who has pet names for both DH and my dogs. However, seeing “kitten” spelled as “kitteh” fills me with inner rage.

        2. Lissa*

          It does make me feel better! When it’s just a word or two I don’t really notice but lately it seems like it’s on anything involving animals, entire posts written completely in that format. It’s so painful to read!

          2. Crystalline*

            I’m so glad it’s not just me and/or you, LOL. Me too! And the captions are always over the pet somehow, so it’s difficult to watch the video and ignore them.

            @mananana It feels extra undignified for cats. Sigh. Pet peeves. (Haha.)

      2. Seeking Second Childhood*

        I have to warn you… 7th graders are starting to talk that way intentionally. And I’ve now caught my hudband saying “Plehz” for “please”. My raised by a Latin teacher, oxford-comma crusader husband has been infected by our 7th grader.

        1. Seeking Second Childhood*

          I fear another”Great Vowel Shift”..but then, my mother thought that about Valley Girl speak.

    12. Cube Diva*

      Had a coworker who would make a sound like a dolphin before she hung up with her husband. Every day. It was their little way of saying “I love you.” And it was so squawky and loud… the worst.

      1. Cute Li'l UFO*

        This is great because I’m now envisioning the exact dolphin chatter sound used in Spongebob.

    13. FloralsForever*

      When your boss accidentally ends his calls to you with “darling” (we work on opposite coasts so most of our communication is on the phone)

      I think he calls his wife/daughter darling, and talks to his wife a lot on the phone during the day. It feels very much like a “dad” type mistake, and I can tell he’s embarrassed, so I just laugh at him. One of these days I’m going to reply:”Oh okay… cutesy-poo” or some other ridiculous nonsense

    14. Southern Yankee*

      Oh, I can beat that. I was a new grand-boss sitting with a thirty-something employee as she showed me what she did. She answers the phone without so much as an “excuse me” and proceeds to talk baby talk to an unknown caller. I didn’t leave to give her privacy because I was hacked off at her rudeness. After a good five minutes of baby talk, she ends with “Bye Daddy”.

      I was so squicked I felt the hurl crawling up my throat!

  7. Nervous Accountant*

    Just trying to find the right balance in this mindset.

    I’ve always been taught to have empathy/put myself in someone’s shoes/be considerate/the golden rule/remember where I came from/dont’ be a hypocrite etc.

    Which is all good and fine but there’s a point when it’s not working right?

    I feel like it is (or was) hindering me at work., esp in any capacity to supervise/manage employees.

    Maybe I am confusing these concepts.

    I’m slowly coming in to it. But oh lord its been tough. Whenever I was faced with an issue, my first thought was/is, “Did I ever do that? If so, what would have worked? What was the right thing to do?”

    But with the last few batch of people, it’s been like…Jesus, I was never THAT bad. Kevin, New Guy, office farter, slacker coworker, etc. The things they’ve said/done, I’d NEVER have done. (though to be fair, with the latter 2 they had more to offer; “slacker” has actually done super well and improved a lot and I am glad to have her on my team). But then I did other things. Y a kno, I keep falling in to that trap of thinking? “how can I tell someone to not do X when I did X myself when I was new?”

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      Yes, the inverse of this rule is “healthy boundaries help everybody.” Being clear and direct is also a kindness. Also I find that the things I care most about may not be important to the other person, they may have a different value set than me and wonder why I’m beating around the bush so much.

    2. Mockingjay*

      Flip your POV. Having done those things yourself, you learned from your mistakes and know better now. Use that knowledge to help your team.

      Everyone, no matter their level of seniority, needs an occasional reminder or course correction at work. It’s part and parcel of working with diverse human beings. And as someone pointed out in a recent thread (I think one of yesterday’s?), this is literally what a manager is paid to do.

      1. Nervous Accountant*

        I try to do that but with the work processes. With behavioral stuff, I’m more reluctant. In the beginning it was more b/c my promotion was never “announced” so it was like “why is [this person] telling me waht to do??”

        Basically this was the incident that made me reflect. I had a report who was running late for work and had a meeting coming up. so I moved his meeting to someone else. Instead of saying thank you, he just rolled his eyes and sounded upset almost. Everyone on every level of staff notifies someone if we anticipate being more than 10 minutes late, even my boss will let us know. This report did not, so I had someone else take care of his meeting. I had no issue with the being late but the reaction. I didn’t say anything, moved on. in my head I was like…”if and when that was me, I’d be thankful for the extra few minutes to get settled in.”.. so I started reflecting on it, that I’ve done enough of “if it were me” for a long time and it’s time to flip my POV.

        I asked someone else if I made a bad move doing that, and they said no, that’s perfectly fine and acceptable and that’s how we do it. it’s a courtesy to give someone those extra few minutes.

        Now, the lateness and lack of follow up isn’t an issue for me b/c he is almost always here on time and is otherwise good about notifying us, so I give him a pass on that.
        To me it was the nasty attitude about it.

        I know I’m all over the place, but I have a lot of thoughts swimming around in my head. Could be lack of sleep llol

        1. Sloan Kittering*

          I think there’s a situation sometimes where something would be mortifying FOR YOU – like being corrected by your boss for being late – but someone else shrugs it off / says meh / needs to be reminded to do better and then cheerfully does. You don’t know what kind of person you’re dealing with so your best bet is to be kind but direct and firm and let them feel however they feel – at least you were clear about what you need.

    3. Queen of Cans and Jars*

      A good way to frame it is to consider it a kindness to correct someone who’s not doing what they should be doing. Imagine if someone had some to you when you were new and kindly told you the way you should do something. It might be embarrassing for a minute, but wouldn’t you be grateful? I know I would! The key is to do it in private and be respectful about it. If that person reacts poorly, it’s a them-problem, not a you-problem.

    4. LadyByTheLake*

      The answer to “how can I tell someone not to do X when I did X myself when I was new” is that X is wrong and you no longer do X because at some point someone told you not to do X, so you don’t do it anymore. You aren’t doing anyone any favors letting them make mistakes just because it is a mistake you used to make. How will they know to change if you don’t tell them.

      1. Auntie Social*

        And you can say “Don’t feel bad, just don’t do it again” or “I know you did X but we do Y and Z here”. Short, sweet. No confessing your own sins.

    5. Coffee Bean*

      You can be kind by putting yourself in their shoes and understanding you have made those mistakes before, so you can forgive them. But they were mistakes, and you learned to stop doing X, so helping guide them out of doing that bad habit (slacking, farting, whatever it may be) is a kindness.

    6. Canonical23*

      I feel you. I’m 24 and I manage a staff of people who have been working as long as I’ve been alive. And when they’re doing things they shouldn’t be doing, it feels weird to assert authority, because 2 years ago, I was a general staff person with no managerial duties who also did things like slack off or occasionally engage in workplace gossip.

      I think that can be a strength because you can be empathetic to the issue while still explaining why it isn’t appropriate for the work environment. Think of that empathy/remembering where you came from/lack of hypocrisy as one of the main things that keeps you from being one of those bad bosses that doesn’t “get it” or exerts authority in an inappropriate manner (think yelling, passive aggression, etc.) Use your empathy to help frame difficult conversations – “I understand why X can happen – many of us do X occasionally. But it’s important that we value Y in the workplace, so I need you to stop doing X and start doing Y.”

      1. Nervous Accountant*

        YASSS that’s exactly me. I have some people on my team who are older, more experienced and I feel weird asserting my authority. Good thing is that my manager does have my back, but a lot of things I need to learn and do on my own. Take off hte training wheels haha.

        I will say, Kevin has been a HUGE learning experience. I think that was what I needed to push me over to the other side.

    7. ArtK*

      Do you do ‘X’ now? Probably not. How did you learn not to do ‘X’? Probably because someone told you. Pay that forward.

    8. Ama*

      One thing I had to learn when I started managing my direct report was that I *wasn’t* responsible for my report’s emotions around the job — for me it was affecting my ability to delegate because the bulk of the work we hired her to do were tasks I actively disliked and I would worry every time I transferred something to her that she’d hate it . So I was doing a version of what you were doing in a different area — “how can I ask Jane to do this when I hate doing it myself?” It took some work (and I’m extremely lucky in that my employer provides some management training because it helped me identify the problem more quickly) but I finally realized that my job as a manager is to make sure my report gets the tools they need to do the job the way I/my employer need it done. If Jane hates doing the job that way, she has two choices — 1) bring her concerns to me and we can discuss whether there are any alterations we can make that would help (sometimes I have to say no, this is the way we have to do it, but I try to explain why when that happens) or 2) decide to move to a job she likes better. But those two decisions are Jane’s to manage, not mine.

      It doesn’t matter if you also made that mistake before — what you need now is for your reports *not* to do that thing, and you should make sure they get the information they need so they can either stop doing it and improve their performance or decide they can’t deal with your parameters and move on.

    9. Snowglobe*

      I think “putting yourself in someone else’s shoes” can be somewhat limiting. Each person is an individual. They make mistakes that you didn’t; you made mistakes that they never would. Some mistakes might’ve similar, but the type of feedback that helped you might not help them. People learn differently. So as a manager you just need to figure out how each of your reports responds to different types of feedback/instruction and go with what works for *them.*

    10. Not So NewReader*

      It’s good to think about boundaries.
      Then consider these factors:
      There are common mistakes that most people make. The thing about common mistakes is that the repairs are common knowledge also. This is because everyone has made the mistake and learned how to fix it.

      Then there are frequent mistakes. This is different than common mistakes because frequent mistakes can mean the same error over and over after being told not to make that error again.

      Then there are rare mistakes. Hey, you know what, we all step in crap once in a while and sometimes something blows up in an epic way and we had no means of knowing it would backfire so badly.

      With the common mistakes and rare mistakes I looked for a couple things:
      The top thing I looked for was did the person TELL me/someone and ask for help. If yes, then PHEW! I can probably trust this person to watch what they are doing. This is of higher value to me and I make sure people know that. “Just come tell me.”
      The next thing I look for is some expression of regret. I don’t need to hear “I am sorry” but it does help to hear some indication of concern. “I want to know what to do so I never make that mistake again.” OR “I want to know what to do so if this does happen again, I can fix it on my own without bothering others.”
      With the rare mistakes, it’s good to have a bit deeper discussion of what happened, why and prevention.
      I have never “shot” anyone who came and told me ASAP. I thanked them for trusting me enough to talk to me.

      Frequent and repeated mistakes are my biggest concern. The dots are not connecting for the person. They are not taking corrective action or putting in preventative measure to ensure they do the work properly. These are people who do not care. Bosses cannot make people care about their jobs/work. It’s very difficult to fix these types of situations.

      So, the rule of three. I see a problem three times, I must address it in an appropriate manner. This gives me space so I don’t look like a micromanaging idiot who has no idea what is actually going on. That is not my goal to come across that way. But if I see something a third time, I will speak to the person. If nothing else but to ask about it, “Hey what’s up with doing X every day at 4 pm? I have seen you do this for three days in a row. What’s going on?” Then I listen.

      My baselines are safety and civility. A close second is quality of work. I will use stronger statements when I think someone is jeopardizing their own safety or the safety of others. I will also use stronger statements when I hear a person say unprofessional/unacceptable things.
      Saying unprofessional/unacceptable things. Sometimes the wording is ambiguous . “Oh I did not mean anything by it!” Then I jump in with, “Then speak clearly. There is no need for ambiguity/double ententes/ anything that leaves room for doubt. If I see this again, we will be talking about this again. Say what you mean, mean what you say. Don’t leave people guessing.”

      Last. I made up my mind that I would apologize when I was wrong. This was a freeing decision. It freed me from my own overthinking. I would try my hardest not to make a mistake or a bad call but if I did make a mistake/bad call, then I would apologize for it.

      1. MassMatt*

        This is a good template. I especially agree that the conversation has to get more serious when mistakes/problems are repeated. If someone continues to do (or failed to do) x after The guideline/requirement has been made clear, then the employee isn’t listening, is incapable of change or learning, or doesn’t care. Then it has to go to a PIP or termination. Not everyone is a good fit for every job.

    11. Kathenus*

      One suggestion is to disengage ’empathy’ from ‘approval’. You can try to see things from someone else’s perspective to try to better understand them, why they do what they do, etc. – whether you did those things or not. But being empathetic doesn’t mean that you have to agree with or approve what they are doing. And as was mentioned already, if you did do something, but learned to change because you were told or realized that X wasn’t the best option, using your experience can help with determining how to communicate with that person. And showing your own imperfections can sometimes be helpful in connecting with someone – admitting you used to do X but then did Y to change can help them see you as a fallible (and honest) person versus just a boss dictating that they change. Empathy can help you see the person behind the behavior, and I think can help with a mindset where you respect the person even if you are trying to change the behavior. Good luck.

    12. Koala dreams*

      I don’t really feel that the golden rule is that great. It assumes that people appreciate the same things, and that’s not true. People are different, even if they are wearing the same shoes. Some people instead refer to the “platinum” rule, about treating others the way they want to be treated. That makes more sense in social interactions. In a work context, there are of course more important things than getting along socially, such as getting the work done, make sure employees get paid, following local laws and regulations.

      To get this back to work, I think there is nothing wrong with starting out with your own experiences and act accordingly, but in a work context you often get to know people after a while. You know who needs to be told things directly to the point of rudeness, who picks up automatically by watching others, who is great at detail work and who hates using the phone, and then you can take that in account.

    13. Lilysparrow*

      When you’re managing, you need a clear and consistent picture of the results that are needed and the policies or requirements that must be met.

      Empathy and seeing things from the other person’s POV don’t change the targets.

      Empathy guides you in having reasonable expectations and finding ways to help people succeed at those targets.

      Understanding others’ POV helps you communicate the targets to them in a way they understand and find motivating or helpful.

      Letting people slack off their work, or be rude or unprofessional, is not the result of too much empathy. It’s the result of unclear or inconsistent targets.

  8. Murphy*

    Just wanted to say thanks to everyone who answered my question last week about professional references when a team of one with a weird job history. I took the advice and asked a colleague in another department who I interact with fairly frequently, though mostly by email. She said she’d be willing to give a reference and also said “But I don’t want you to leave that office!” which I think is a good sign that she’d give a good reference. It was a nerve-wracking phone call to make, but I got through it! I submitted an application yesterday for an internal position, so *fingers crossed* Thanks!

  9. heckofabecca*

    I’m applying to my first internship! It’s at a museum in Poland—very exciting!

    I have gone through Alison’s excellent advice for regular cover letters, but I’d appreciate any input about how internship cover letters should differ. Thanks so much!

    1. Muriel Heslop*

      Wow! Good luck!

      When I had interns I liked them to be specific about how working with our company could help them achieve their academic and/or professional career goals. People who just wanted a summer job/resume builder were least appealing.

      1. heckofabecca*

        Ah thank you! That’s a relief; it’s such a unique opportunity that I can’t help but want to talk about why I want to be there!

    2. Yvette*

      How very exciting for you, what an experience!! Never been an intern but maybe with intern cover letters find examples of /highlight times where you did stuff even outside of your normal scope to be a team player and get the job done. I have never been/worked with interns but I just feel like they are expected to be a little more flexible in terms of one day you catalog aquisitions and the next day you lead a tour group and another day you might be stuffing and stamping “Museum Member” correspondance or proofing the newletter.

      1. heckofabecca*

        I love to know what’s going on all over the place, so jumping around should be fun… XD Thanks!

    3. coffee addict*

      Since you probably don’t have a lot of experience outside of class, definitely focus on what you’ve done in school and what you’ve learned and how it can apply to the internship. When I was applying to internships, I mentioned a couple papers/projects I had completed and how that research would relate to the position and make me a strong intern. I also discussed a club I was in and how being part of that group gave me certain skills that would be valuable to the internship.
      I would also lay out realistically what you want out of the internship. For example, if you’re interested in having a career in a specific field, say that and express how the internship would help you achieve that goal.

      1. heckofabecca*

        Thank you!!

        I actually do have experience that lines up almost exactly with the department I’m applying to through work with a nonprofit, and I’m mentioning that for sure! I also brought up the fact that courses in the museum’s area don’t really exist at my school, so I’m pursuing an independent honors thesis in a related field (Jewish history) and how working at the museum would be an opportunity to learn more for me.

        Now I just need a better closing phrase than “working at X would be a dream come true”….. XD

    4. Amylou*

      It will depend on the job post, but if they mentioned any specific tasks/projects, make sure to mention any experience (e.g. in student clubs is perfect for this) or your eagerness to learn something for your future career in X. At an old job, we mentioned specific tasks/things they’d learn, and it was surprising only two or three out of nearly a hundred applicants zoned in on those. It definitely made their letters stand out, and showed they were interested in this *particular* internship, not sending out the same letter thinning ^just any internship will do^…

      1. heckofabecca*

        Thanks! I’m mentioning how the tasks they listed line up with work I’m already doing in an unrelated volunteer position—it’s almost funny how close a match it is to my nonprofit stuff!

  10. wingmaster*

    I had some good news this week. I got a promotion and a 15% raise! Now I’m off to Peru this weekend for a work trip.

  11. FaintlyMacabre*

    A question and some venting:

    Question:

    I recently did some training for a field that I am trying to transition into. The training consisted of a webinar over a couple of days, with homework before and in the middle of the webinar, and an online test after the conclusion of the webinar. We were given a week to complete the test.

    I finished the test a few days before it was due, and though the score was given on completion, there was no way to go through the test and see what questions I had missed. I emailed the contact person, Octavia, to see if there was a way to see the questions I had missed. She said there was, but only after the test closed on Friday.

    I sent an email on Monday to ask about seeing the test. Octavia replied that she was copying Lavinia on the email, as Lavinia is the person who could go over the results with me. I have not heard anything from Lavinia- do I need to email her? When is too soon?

    Venting:
    This is so frustrating!!!! I guess they use the same test for every training and don’t want cheating, but I want to know what I got wrong so I don’t make those mistakes in the future! And I passed easily, but what if someone bombs it? Too bad, so sad, good luck in the future? The training offered a lot of feedback and review; I’m really surprised that going over the test results is like pulling teeth.

    1. Coffee Bean*

      If Octavia emailed Lavinia on Monday, forwarding your request, you can go ahead and reach out to Lavinia requesting it again. She may not have scrolled down to see your request, or may just need a quick reminder. One week is long enough, even just a few days is fine here (IMO).

    2. Less Bread More Taxes*

      I’d give it a week at least. The closest reference I have to this is SAT tests which take months to view.

    3. ISuckAtUserNames*

      Jeez. It’s a training, not the SATs, FFS. Seems like immediate feedback would be better from an ACTUAL TRAINING standpoint to ensure you processed the information correctly.

      But what do I know? At any rate, I share your frustration. Did they give a timeline on when results would be in? Depending on how many people had to take the training and how many people they have distributing the results, Lavinia could be overwhelmed. If it were me I’d probably ask my boss if they knew when the results were supposed to be shared, as sometimes managers get those details but us schlubs don’t, but if they don’t know I’d hold off until mid next week, maybe, if I didn’t hear anything. If there’s nothing urgent riding on the results, I’d not push too hard on getting them right away, if it were me.

      1. FaintlyMacabre*

        They said I’d get a certificate in a month after the end of the training. They never addressed test results- since it was online, I assumed at the end of the test I’d be able to see the test questions I missed, but all I got was my score. There were only about 8 people in the training, but I’m sure the training people have other things to do! I guess I’ll just wait ’til Monday and reach out to Lavinia.

    4. Karen from Finance*

      If Lavinia was sent your request on Monday, I think you’re fine to follow up today or on Monday. A week is long enough.

      1. Cat wrangler*

        If today (Friday) is the closing date for the test, then maybe they can’t access the material until the next working day. Drop Lavinia a line on Tues or Weds.

    5. SavannahMiranda*

      I guarantee you that you are one of the good students who was driven, took the material seriously, and was successful at it, and that right now they are probably fielding a ton of woe-is-me petitions and complaints about the length of the exam, the content, and who knows what else.

      You come along, bright and successful, simply wanting to know how to be better. But you fall to the bottom of the list because they’re putting out fires from people petitioning for re-takes, contesting their scores, and calling certain questions ambiguously worded in order to try to get them removed and better their scores.

      Even though this is a professional training where the participants are presumably adults, and not a community college 101 class with students carrying over high school behavior, groups of people you least expect it from can still be surprisingly appalling about these things.

      Circle back for sure. But take into consideration you’re probably one of the more successful participants.

  12. Katelyn*

    When you send in a job application and get an email saying “do you have time for a call?” what does this mean? Phone interview? phone screen? I’ve definitely received these type of seemingly-casual emails a couple times, and I just had one that was 1 hr long.

    1. Queen of Cans and Jars*

      I’d always be prepared for it to be some kind of interview. I’m not sure what other reason they’d have for calling. If you want to get an idea of how long they’ll want to chat, there’s no harm in asking when you reply.

    2. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I hate that, because it can be such a mixed bag. Sometimes it’s a phone screen, sometimes it’s an actual phone interview– and when it’s been the latter, I’ve been caught so unprepared. A company once said, “We have a couple of questions for you, do you have time for a 10-minute call?” and it turned out to be an actual interview and was just very weird.

      Anyway. I think if this happens to you in the future, you can ask how much time they need. An hour? That’s an appointment, not a quick call.

    3. ArtK*

      I get these all the time from recruiters. It’s for an initial conversation about whether or not you would fit. I treat it like an interview.

    4. Ali G*

      I would say something like “I have about 30 min at 2 pm today, otherwise we can schedule a longer block for Monday (or whenever you want).
      I would expect a longer conversation and wouldn’t be too restrictive on your availability, but it’s OK to rein them in a little too.

      1. T. Boone Pickens*

        Yup, came here to echo Ali G. When I reach out to candidates for an initial phone call I do include in my email that the call will take about 15 minutes and it’s an initial introductory call. If you get asked if you have a time for a call it’s perfectly fine to ask how long you should budget for and if you have a hard out/scheduling conflict to mention that.

    5. MissDisplaced*

      I usually take a first contact as being more of a phone screen rather than full interview.
      So, be prepared to answer basic questions about your resume, why you’re interested and maybe even salary ranges (yes, I know some people hate that, but it’s what screeners do-you don’t want to waste time if neither party is even in the same ballpark). I would also respond with a couple of set times in say 15 minute blocks in the next 2-3 days.

      And be wary if people expect you to “jump” and drop everything for them immediately. To me, it’s a red flag in most cases.

  13. AliceBD*

    I was laid off on Monday; my last day is next Friday (one week from today). We just went through a merger and I suspected for months they would get rid of my job, and they did. I’m not upset about it. Most lay-off advice (besides on AAM) seems to be about emotional stuff which is good for others — I have very upset coworkers — but not relevant to me. (At least not right this minute.) What advice do you have? Freelancing or gig work ideas while I search for a full-time job? I do marketing and am a pretty strong writer. I’m already talking with an internal recruiter for a large local company and the position is promising but I have no guarantees I’ll get it.

    Related, when a previous manager has changed jobs and no longer works where you both worked, do you give their old title and company or new title and company when listing them as a reference?

    1. (Mr.) Cajun2core*

      Get working on unemployment insurance right-away.
      Apply for jobs like crazy. You don’t have to take the first one offered to you but if it is a good job highly consider it even though it may not be an ideal job.

    2. ThatGirl*

      Get on unemployment right away. Take a few days to update your resume and think about what you’d like to do next. I actually disagree with “apply for jobs like crazy” – it’s a job-seeker’s market right now, it’s OK to be a little picky (unless you’re in a very weird or specific field). I tried to only apply for jobs that a) I was genuinely interested in and b) felt like I was qualified for.

    3. Honeygrim*

      I’m sorry about your layoff. I don’t have a lot of advice about your job search, but I would suggest listing your previous manager using both sets of information, just to remove confusion. Something like “Joe Smith, Operations Manager, ABC Inc. (former manager at XYZ Inc.).”

      Good luck!

    4. legalchef*

      I use their new information, and then put underneath something like “(former manager while at Company)”

    5. AliceBD*

      I get a month of severance and a PTO payout so I’m not eligible for unemployment until well after I leave!

      1. Jerry Vandesic*

        Depending on where you live, you might be eligible for unemployment immediately if you have to sign away your rights to sue in order to receive severance. That is true in Massachusetts and some other states.

        You should file now, and let the unemployment commission figure out when you start collecting.

        1. Mass Anon*

          Ditto on this, I was laid off years ago and the severance package included wording to the effect I would not sue the former employer, etc. This meant that I could collect unemployment at the same time. Someone who was laid off a wave or two ahead of me just assumed he would be ineligible and lost out on several weeks of unemployment. Laws vary from state to state, save your agreement and check your state’s unemployment website for definitions, rules, etc. non-compete agreements may make you eligible also.

      2. lapgiraffe*

        Also MA, and correct, I got a lump sum and was able to start collecting sooner than the amount of weeks the severance covered, which was nice because the “first week” of unemployment you don’t actually get any money (I didn’t understand that then or now, thankfully my only time on unemployment but of course things change and I was so so so grateful for it even with generous severance and savings)

    6. Quackeen*

      I always just list “Alice BD, former Director of Operations at Company.”

      Sorry about the layoff. I went through it 9 months ago and, unlike you, really struggled with the emotional side of things. It seems like your skills and experience lend themselves very well to freelancing while you search for the right fit. Best of luck for finding that right fit soon!

    7. Ama*

      For the references, I usually give the title they had when we worked together and then put in parentheses where they are now, like so:

      Jane Ferguson
      Vice President, Teapots Unlimited
      (currently President, Dazzling Teapot Co.)
      [contact info]

    8. TootsNYC*

      For references:

      On my reference sheet (which I often cut-and-paste into an email), I list them like this:

      Name Here
      supervisor at XYZ company.

      or
      Name Here
      currently vice president at MMM company
      supervisor at ZYX company 1992-1994 (if I know the dates)

      In my field, everybody expects your references to have moved around.

      It’s way more important what their contact with YOU is, so make that clear. If they have a great new job that makes them sound really important, then include it. But as long as its’ clear, it really doesn’t matter what the format is.

    9. lapgiraffe*

      If your finances allow it, take a trip, doesn’t have to be big, even just visiting family or an old friend you haven’t seen in a while. There’s only so much job applying one can do in a day or week, and psychologically for me to have some physical and mental space to breathe.

      Let your friends treat you, to drinks or pedicures or dinner or a movie, people feel very helpless in a situation like this and want to show their love and help in whatever way. It was kinda hard to accept such generosity at first but when I realized it gave them joy to be helpful like that it became more than just a free meal, it really bolstered my emotional and mental health to be out and about “like normal” and to feel cared for. And then it was the first thing I wanted to do years later when a friend was laid off, buying her dinner and spreading the love.

  14. seekingadvice123*

    i’ve been over-worked and burned out the past few months and i have a meeting with my boss this afternoon to talk about taking some of it off my plate. i am scared i’ll cry during the meeting. the increased workload has torpedoed my mental health (i have a psych and a therapist) and i was almost hospitalized in january. i also feel terribly guilty because it keeps playing out at work that Team X needs 20 urgent things done, so i have to automatically say no to Teams A, B, and C when they ask for little, non-urgent stuff, and ABC are getting pissed because they do need this stuff done by someone, it’s just that i can’t. how do i not cry in this meeting? would it be appropriate to mention the adverse health affects this schedule has had on me? no details, just that – “it’s been adversely affecting my health.” i would be so thankful for any advice on how to approach this. (and what to do if i start crying lol.) my boss is kind and reasonable, so that’s good.

    1. StressedButOkay*

      If you have time, I would mentally go over all the various things in your mind – rehearse, basically, especially the parts that you might think will trigger you to cry.

      1. Muriel Heslop*

        I agree with this. Most of my students (middle school) have mental health issues and one exercise we do for stressful conversations is:
        Step One: write out what you want to say on a piece of paper/dry erase board.
        Step Two: read it aloud until you are comfortable.
        Step Three: say it to someone you trust who can give you feedback/support about what you want to say.
        Step Four: have the difficult talk, but envision your “script” the whole time so you stay on topic and can ideally be less emotional.

        With my students, the more we do this kind of exercise, the better they get at having hard conversations.
        It’s so scary to have these kinds of talks, and it’s okay to be emotional, but I totally understand not wanting to cry! Good luck!

      2. Sloan Kittering*

        Maybe you can try to reduce the fear and anxiety you have around crying. Let’s say you do cry – maybe that’s okay, maybe you have some strategies to handle that. You could take a pause and say something to address it directly, “I apologize, I’m a little emotional about this topic, but i do want to continue the conversation. Please give me a minute” (or “please continue anyway,” whatever you prefer). I think for me, thinking *don’t cry don’y cry* makes it about a thousand times worse and would ratchet up my stress.

      3. Coffee Bean*

        I agree with rehearsing.

        While you rehearse I suggest you also try and drive home the reasons why things couldn’t get done and solutions to the problems. No one can work around the clock, and everything gets prioritized. If Teams ABC are mad because you aren’t getting to that stuff then explaining that to your boss and having him either help you reprioritize, or helping by pushing back on Teams ABC will both help.

      4. Not So NewReader*

        I have found it helpful to think of Elton John singing at Diana’s funeral. In an interview he said he sang Candle in the Wind over and over until he could get through it without crying. Repetition is powerful. Sometimes we have to get used to hearing our own voices saying something.

    2. BugSwallowersAnonymous*

      I think it’s totally reasonable to say it’s been adversely affecting your health- I feel like I would want to know that as a manager! And I always like having a glass of water with me when I think I might start crying. I also think you shouldn’t beat yourself up too much if you do cry, though. You’re human, and it’s okay to show how you’re really feeling. Especially since your boss is kind and reasonable. I hope it goes well!

    3. revueller*

      The NYTimes posted a trick about pushing your tongue to the roof of your mouth to stop crying immediately. Haven’t tried it, but if you (unfortunately) get a chance to test it out before the meeting, it might help.

      And if you can’t do something physically because your health is on the line, say that. I wouldn’t mention that you were nearly hospitalized (which I am so sorry about, that sucks and is definitely a good reason to say something), but saying “I cannot take on additional responsibilities at the time without it taking a toll on other areas of my life.” is not a bad way to start.

      Coming up with solutions in advance may also win you extra points with your boss. Think of ways to perhaps delegate certain tasks (either your current urgent workload or those non-urgent requests coming in). It’ll show that you understand the problem from ABC’s perspective, but you also cannot budge in certain areas.

      Good luck, friend!

    4. Minocho*

      I have the most embarrassing tendency to cry while getting good reviews. It’s this bizarre stress response. I found one thing that helped me was having a tress ball / fidget toy that I could hide in my hand.

      1. Quackeen*

        I have a similar reaction! Was once in a parent-teacher conference where the teacher was praising my child and both the teacher and I ended up crying! It was bizarre. I also once teared up over getting positive eBay feedback.

        I assure you that I’m not as unhinged as I sound!

    5. TootsNYC*

      look up.

      No, literally, raise your eyeballs inside your sockets to look at the ceiling.

      And also, mentally focus on what the JOB needs. In so many ways, this has NOTHING to do with you. Pouring too much liquid into a too-small container makes a mess, but it has nothing to do with the container!

      Focus on the logistics of how to solve it, and not on the upsetness of anybody else. Keep your focus forward.

      Also: get a little mad.
      That’s what someone told me once when I was complaining about a really unprofessional colleague, when I was at the point that I thought his actions were damaging to the group. I was mad, and upset, and i started to cry, and she said:
      “Don’t cry. Get mad, but don’t cry.”

      I realized that I often cry when I’m trying to restrain some other emotional reaction.
      Once I let the anger, or the frustration, show, I didn’t cry. I tried to control the volume, but not the reaction.

      1. Zombeyonce*

        But be aware this won’t work for everyone. I’m an angry crier, so getting upset at something when I’m not to blame actually makes me more likely to cry.

        I recommend thinking about crying triggers and talk those out in front of a mirror before this meeting to get a handle on saying them as calmly as you can. And accept that you might cry anyway, but that’s a normal response to so much stress. Just say “sorry, this situation is frustrating” and move the conversation on.

        1. twig*

          yep. frustration, anger, any strong emotion — I cry.

          When I go into these kinds of meetings with my boss, I start out by telling her: My physiological reaction to stress is tears — it’s like a stress relief valve. Feel free to ignore and keep going on with the conversation.

    6. Blue*

      Is your boss already aware of how urgent the need is to redistribute work? If not, I would mention the adverse health effects (broadly, as you said) just so it’s clear that this is a problem you need a solution for asap.

      I found myself in a similar situation in my last job, and when I first raised the issue with my boss, he was accepting and open to hearing it but wasn’t motivated to find an immediate solution. At that point, I was keeping all the critical balls in the air and since I’m generally good at making things work, he assumed I’d find a way to make it through the busy season and then we could look for a solution when it was quieter. It took me having a really bad day to go into his office and give him a blunt accounting of just how dire the situation was. And yes, I almost cried, and yes, I was very self-conscious about that. I spent a lot of that conversation focusing on my breathing to try to stay calm. But I think the fact that I was clearly emotional brought home to him how much this was impacting me, and, to his credit, he started making changes that same day.

      Good luck! I’m rooting for you.

    7. epi*

      I already see some good advice about avoiding crying in the thread, so I’ll add something a little different.

      It can be really hard to not cry if you think you start to feel the need, and let it upset you further. That “oh no– I can not cry” thought can really trip you up and make it worse by freaking you out.

      It may help you to know you could handle it if you did cry, just so it’s not this horrible possibility looming over you. Bring notes with bullet points of what you want to say, so you know that even if you cry, you will still be able to stay on topic. Put a couple of tissues in your pocket so you know if anything starts, you can clean up easily without getting derailed or further embarrassed. Realize that most bosses have had an employee cry before. Many people– probably most people– have at some point cried at work. Yet you don’t see a lot of people suddenly being treated like they are fragile or overly emotional after a meeting with their boss! That is because most people will be kind, try to let you save face, and not read too much into a single instance of crying.

      I think mentioning the effect on your health is really up to you. For me personally, I tend to emphasize that the stress or the situation itself is unmanageable rather than disclosing anything specific about my health. Especially if this is the first talk about a particular problem. Sometimes I have been really surprised by what turned out to be optional, or negotiable, or not my highest priority, once my boss knew that the situation– not me– was a problem. Or they had advice I never thought of before, so there turned out to be no need to disclose anything personal. I have disclosed at work before. It was at the point that either: and ongoing situation had not been fixed, and I felt people needed to know how unacceptable it was; I expected the effects of my poor health to affect me more globally, and I wanted them to be prepared.

      I hope your meeting this afternoon goes well, and things start looking up for you!

    8. Existentialista*

      Best advice I heard about crying at work was from a very senior woman in the Financial industry in the city where I was living. She said she would tell her boss, “I’m probably going to cry, but please don’t worry about it, and just listen to what I have to say.” She said it had worked well for her.

    9. Dr. Anonymous*

      I would start with the list of what you’re doing, what’s impossible to do, the effect on the other teams, and leave your mental health as your hole card of your boss isn’t getting the picture. Your mental health is very important, but it sounds like it’s become an issue because your job is currently impossible. So you can choose to focus on that if you want.

    10. Redhead*

      I’ve been where you are and it’s difficult. Others have talked about the crying issue, I just wanted to say it’s not the end of the world if you cry. Many, many people have cried in this situation.

      You might want to look into FMLA leave (or other similar law if you’re outside of the US) and whether it will cover you. I don’t think I would bring it up with your boss just yet, but it would be good to understand what your rights are.

      You talk about being overburdened. Shouldn’t your boss be deciding priorities and letting the other groups know there’s an issue? You might ask for clarification on that, and how he would like you to handle it when you’re in that situation.

  15. HireMoreWomenInTech*

    I am a female engineer at an company in the automation industry, and I’ve been working on trying to increase our number of female applicants to engineering jobs. So far, we’ve given company tours to groups of women from local colleges and aimed for a better gender balance when sending employees to recruit at colleges.

    Does anyone have suggestions on what else we can do? I’m relatively new to the company, and not involved in the hiring process itself so I’m focusing on ideas to increase percentages of female applicants.

    Thanks!

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      What else “we” can do or what else you can do? I think you’re already doing a lot!

      But the real issue is making sure the dudes at your company aren’t creating a toxic work environment or even just a status quo environment as far as gender in tech goes. Also, how are your job postings? I think female candidates are less likely to apply to positions they don’t feel they meet every single requirement of, and male candidates are more likely to think “Eh, I’m not qualified, but I can do that.”

    2. Foreign Octopus*

      I think you’re doing a good job so far. Maybe something smaller like flyers in women’s bathrooms or something?

      Although, to really solve the problem of the gender imbalance, it’s more important to get them when they’re young: I’m talking primary/elementary age and continuing that through secondary/high school. Maybe there’s a way you can talk to children as well: I know that’s a long time solution but it might be an idea.

      1. xarcady*

        I agree–part of the issue is that not all that many women are in STEM majors in college.

        My high-school age niece went to an explosives camp last summer, mostly because her parents insist she do something educational each summer and because she liked the idea of making her own fireworks. Well, the camp took the kids down into a mine. And she loved it. And now she’s been accepted into two university mining programs. Prior to this, she wanted to be a math teacher.

        So maybe if your company could do a tour or a workshop or something geared to high school students, that might spark some interest and help get more women in the degree programs that you want to recruit from.

        1. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain*

          I was going to suggest trying to build a “career ladder” type program to get high school and even junior high kids into a system that helps guide them into STEM careers — what classes to take at each level; where are the good college programs and are there any linkage agreements between undergrad and graduate programs; what options are available for scholarships, especially for women; what they need to do in college to find mentors or internships; and what your company (and other companies) look for on resumes of new graduates. That may be beyond your capabilities to create a full program yourself, so you could try to find one that exists and get involved.

          1. Sloan Kittering*

            I’m no expert but I thought I remembered articles stating that even women entering STEM fields ended up dropping out or not finding work or no finding equal pay in their work.

            1. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain*

              Sorry for the very long post, but looping this back to HireMoreWomenInTech’s question, even if employers make an effort to recruit women, they need to address the social, emotional and cultural aspects of their lives that may cause them to drop out or fail to thrive. It’s not enough to just recruit, that’s why I suggested a career ladder — a formal process that allows women to begin and advance their careers. The earlier the ladder begins usually the more successful it’ll be, but you can always start somewhere and build up, or down.

              As a woman whose had a 20+ year career in a field that was, when I started college, still very male dominated at the college and professional level, and is now fairly equal, maybe even at a tipping point (according to the AIGA, women today outnumber men in the professional organization’s membership, and in design schools, woohoo!) I have a bit of insight and I feel like my experience over time can be applied to women in fields that are still in the early stages of accepting them.

              And to address a bit of Jule’s comment below about how focus on education does a disservice to women currently in the workforce — it doesn’t; having more girls and women joining at the bottom of the “ladder” will improve the lives of women in the middle or top. Just having more “visibility” and therefore power as a group helps everyone. Once employers see that their future workforce is going to include more and more women, they’ll start taking current women in their workforce more seriously. While we always seem to focus on how women at the top can pull up those at the bottom, it’s also true that the women at the bottom will bump up those in the middle. I’ve seen it in my profession.

              Part of the reason that women drop out is that they don’t find or have the same social and cultural support as their male peers — similar to students who are the first in their family to go to college. It can be really discouraging to be the “only one” in any group.

              Even when there are excellent academic and financial resources available, there is a pretty big discrepancy between the graduation rates of students whose parents went to college and those who are the first in their family to go to college. What studies have shown in that situation is that schools need to do more to address those students’ non-academic and non-financial needs — self doubt, guilt that they get something others don’t, internal or external guilt that loved ones are making a sacrifice, external pressure to not “think she’s better” or different than the people left behind, and maybe even toxic competitiveness between the few others of their “kind”. Recruiting isn’t enough and it won’t be successful unless schools and employers address those needs.

              1. Jule*

                Derailing conversations about the workforce with comments about education does a disservice. It’s important to read what you think you’re responding to.

                1. Mass Anon*

                  I disagree, I thought Pay No Attention’s post was excellent. She is making the point that recruitment alone is only part of the issue, there also needs to be support for women in the field throughout the career path, and schools need to better prepare women for the workplace in these fields. Sounds to me as though she’s put a lot of thought into the subject!

      2. Jule*

        Oh boy, it’s actually massively important not to write off current-day women in these conversations. It is definitely important to do outreach to young girls, but conversations about equality in the workplace are frequently derailed by discussions about education in a way that does a disservice to women currently in the workforce or on the verge of entering it.

        1. Sloan Kittering*

          Yeah it’s not like education isn’t always important and valuable but I think too often it’s used as an excuse not to do anything now (definitely in my sector, environmental policy). It’s basically, “let’s hope the next generation can fix this for us!”

        2. Fake Old Converse Shoes (not in the US)*

          This. There’re lots of orgs that only care about getting more women in STEM careers and don’t care about those who are already in the workplace, where companies talk endlessly about how inclusive they are but in reality nothing changes (two examples: interviewers asking about marital/sentimental/family status and hard science positions that say “men only”). For example, not so long ago a recruiter tried to guess my mother’s age because my middle name sounded too old fashioned for her (?). It’s not a surprise that lots of women in my University drop out, graduate but never get a job in their field and end working in something totally unrelated.

    3. Sloan Kittering*

      I’ve heard interesting things about blind application review. People project all kinds of things onto applicants whose names sound feminine versus masculine (or minority …). You can create templates for review that don’t feature gender identities. This assumes you do get a fair number of qualified female applicants though, otherwise it won’t help.

      1. BelleMorte*

        This is actually a great way to increase diversity as well, when you remove the names, you remove the underlying bias (known or not) that people might have towards typically “white” sounding names v.s. ethnic sounding names.

        1. Sloan Kittering*

          People are 100% unaware they do it, swear up and down they don’t do it, don’t WANT to do it – but the only way to ensure it doesn’t happen is to make it impossible. Women do it to other women too even if they truly believe that it shouldn’t be happening. We’re all swimming in a toxic soup.

          1. Miss Displaced*

            Unfortunately, this is true, even of well meaning and intentioned people you would never consider racist or biased.

      2. Massmatt*

        This is making me think of articles I have read about how some orchestras lamented the fact that they had so few women performers and shifted to blind auditions (literally, the applicant is referred to by number and auditions behind a screen). The number of women (and I believe, minorities) hired improved dramatically. We are all brought up with biases, they are really difficult to overcome.

    4. BuffySpecialist*

      I work at a large university in an engineering department and we have lots of companies who sponsor talks, dinners, and networking sessions with our female students. (Usually though the Women in Engineering chapter.) Maybe a formal sponsorship of a local chapter would help?

      There are also companies that create scholarships for underrepresented groups with included internships, in the hopes that those students eventually come there after graduation.

    5. plant lady*

      I think those are good ideas! Other ideas:
      – Search for local professional or social groups for women in STEM fields (I know my area, an urban area in the US, has a few), then ask those groups to share with their listservs
      – Post job openings on social media along with group staff photos that make it clear that other women already work there
      – Make sure you have good policies on parental leave, good healthcare, etc, for women thinking of having children in the next few years or who already have kids (of course, these policies are great for men too) and then share the benefits in vacancy postings – subtly make it clear that women won’t be penalized for being pregnant or having children

    6. CRM*

      I might ask if any female employees are interested in volunteering their time to talk with the students you are recruiting. She could provide a good perspective and answer questions about what it’s like to work in the industry and at your company as a women.

    7. Less Bread More Taxes*

      I think the best thing when talking to female applicants is to be upfront about the gender imbalance. I never thought I had an issue being a woman in tech until I met the wider team of 53 people at my last job. I was the only woman, there was one Asian guy, and everyone else was a white male. I was shocked no one else noticed enough to bring it up as an issue and I would have appreciated that.

    8. Anona*

      Make sure you have good maternity leave, and flexibility for people who need to do things like pick a sick kid up from daycare. And let people know about the good benefits, if you have them!

      My friend’s firm, for example, offers 0 paid maternity leave, and I imagine that disadvantages his firm vs another that has both paid maternity and paternity leave.

    9. Maya Elena*

      You personally probably can’t do much more. As for your company:

      Offer benefits women like! Offer the maternity leave, vacations, flexible hours, childcare, nice facilities with windows, have roles that are more people-facing and not just siloed coding. See if there’s research out there on what women like about a workplace and do more of that; it might also attract more older and married men and fewer 22y.o. tech bros.
      At the same, don’t make it “about” hiring women as the end-all be-all, and don’t bludgeon the male engineers with toxic masculinity rhetoric, or set some arbitrary target – “50/50 by 2020!” – that you browbeat HR into meeting.

      1. Fact & Fiction*

        I think even more important than offering these benefits is making sure that your company doesn’t penalize people for using them. Often women are unfairly penalized (whether outrightly or more subtly through not being awarded challenging or lengthy projects) for using such benefits.

      2. Kay*

        But also make sure your female hires have an equal shot at “siloed coding” type positions; don’t track them into human-facing roles or put higher social expectations on them than others by default.

    10. K*

      Reach out to Society of Women Engineers chapters at universities near you! Having relationships with them can be invaluable and provide a really good recruiting pool.

    12. aNameGoesHere*

      Truly honest job postings are a good one! Have a required qualifications section where you really really are not flexible as well as a “preferred qualifications” sections which you are willing to be flexible on. If there are a lot of preferred qualifications, outright stating the number of those you think you are actually likely to get is also helpful. (“Ideal candidates will meet about 3 or 4 of the preferred qualifications.” for example.)

      And then sticking to the job posting required qualifications honestly, because otherwise you’ll have the issue of men getting a chance with less experience more often because men are more likely to apply to jobs they don’t meet as many requirements for.

    13. n*

      Not sure if you’re a social media person, but joining a few job groups on Facebook might be a good idea. When a job opens up in your company, you can post about and maybe include a note about how it’d be great to see more women apply.

      TechLadies and FairyGodBoss also run good job boards for women. If you feel comfortable, you could send those websites to HR as a suggestion.

    14. A tester, not a developer*

      I agree with Foreign Octopus that getting them while they’re young is beneficial.

      Our local university offers ‘STEM for Girls’ camps over the summer and throughout the school year. Sponsoring those camps (and/or allowing the camps to our your operations) not only gets younger girls thinking about their options; the camp counselors are often female undergrad students from a variety of STEM programs. Getting your name out in front of them now will pay off when they are looking for jobs.

    15. Armchair Analyst*

      If you have a job shadow or intern program, make sure women applicants and candidates and participants are highly represented in those.

      At business graduate school, we had a women-in-business club. You could establish relationships with such women-in-engineering clubs at local colleges, or women-in-STEM or whatever the equivalent is.

      If there are golf or similar networking opportunities, think of what may be considered female-equivalent or gender-neutral, like, I’ve seen spa days for women clients, or, perhaps better, a day of service where everyone can participate and network together cleaning up a local park or something like that.

      1. Sloan Kittering*

        Your last sentence is best! I don’t want the girlie alternative or the dude version of the thing – just come up with gender neutral options that work for everyone.

    16. a good mouse*

      You can reach out to SWE (Society of Women Engineers) and other groups to reach out beyond just your local colleges. My school had SWE and also Women@SCS (School of Computer Science). When speakers came in through that program, anyone was welcome, but you always got a larger percentage of women. That’s also a great opportunity to talk about your experience as a woman in an engineering role in the real world, which college kids usually appreciate a lot.

      SWE also has local groups called WE Local.

    17. HireMoreWomenInTech*

      Thank you for all of the suggestions! We already partner with our local SWE chapters and make sure they are mostly interacting with our female engineers. We definitely could be better in terms of job postings/benefits/hiring process but unfortunately those things are beyond my power.

    18. Epsilon Delta*

      As a woman in tech, some of the things I looked for in my last job search were: good healthcare benefits, paid maternity leave, salary, work from home, flexible work hours, no 2 AM deploys (I realize it’s necessary for someone to do it but I didn’t want it to be me anymore), no regular 6 AM calls to coworkers across the globe (ditto, I put in my time with this one), challenging and intersting projects, and the ability to take a leadership role or shape the work I’m doing.

  16. Queen of Cans and Jars*

    So it’s always wrong to lie on an application, right? I mean, obviously I know it’s wrong, but I just applied for a position where I had a yes/no question on “I have 5 years of HR experience, with at least 3 in a generalist role.” I have 4 years of experience as an HR manager, so I answered no and lo & behold got an auto-rejection within about 10 minutes. Why don’t they have a “no, but…” option?! Ugh, it’s just so frustrating!

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      You may not have this luxury, but I’d consider that a bullet dodged. If their applicant tracking system is that rigid to screen out honest but probably qualified candidates in favor of “Looks good on paper” or “I just flat-out lied” candidates, they deserve what they get.

      1. Queen of Cans and Jars*

        Thanks, that helps! And you’re probably right. It’s just really hard here because I’m in a fairly rural area, so local jobs are few and far between.

      2. Baby Fishmouth*

        Sometimes though you do just have to lie to get through the ATS – obviously not outright lie, but understand the ‘spirit’ of the question rather than taking it literally! Reason number #547 I hate applicant tracking systems….

    2. WellRed*

      IN this case, I would have said “yes” and, while technically incorrect, I don’t feel it’s really lying.

    3. Sack of Benevolent Trash Marsupials*

      I just found out that my HR botched my most recent posting by mistakenly inserting a rule-out question that required applicants to have a degree in computer science – for an administrative support position. “No” was disqualifying.

      So I pitched a fit and asked HR for the applicants who had been ruled out (figuring that’s where all my good applicants were), and there were only 3. So 40+ people just clicked “Yes” on some form of computer science degree without having one.

      2. SavannahMiranda*

        I swear the applicant tracking systems today are what the ridiculous personality tests used to be 15~ years ago, and viewed by applicants with as much legitimacy.

        Like the personality tests, anyone with any ability to infer and deduce has to craft their way through them in order to try to get to the interview stage and get a fair chance. These practices don’t rule out bad candidates, they only rule out people who are honest in a literal way.

        Of course ATSs aren’t going away like the idiotic personality tests. No one is going back to sorting resumes by hand again. But dear god, some decent AI with some ability to handle nuance is desperately needed.

    4. Mashed potato*

      Indeed let employer asked these questions and I’m sure I get kicked out from my resume being seen

      1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

        It depends on how the listing is set up…they will let you auto reject. I made the error of setting up auto reject if someone isn’t in our city. It rejected people who live in cities that easily commute here. It was in hopes to avoid the out of state applicants but failed me miserably. Thankfully I still looked in the auto reject pile because Indeed is a big stinker and I was pawing through everything at the end.

        1. Queen of Cans and Jars*

          The only time I auto-reject is if it’s an absolute non-negotiable where a yes/no answer is appropriate, like for a job where we require a very specific skill. Otherwise, I feel like it’s more likely to kick out good candidates than filter the ones we don’t want. I’ve applied for a position where the ATS asked if I was in X location. That time, I did answer ‘yes’ even though it wasn’t the truth because I couldn’t imagine the company only wanted candidates who literally lived in that city.

          1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

            Yes! I learned my lesson and do not auto-reject anyone. I’d rather just self-filter at that rate. We’re not interested in the investing the time in people having to arrange to get here for an interview, we have two rounds of interviews. Phone and in person, then we make a decision. None of the jobs are a skill level that requires a wide net, so that’s why we don’t use extra time. If it were a niche role, of course we’d be more open to keeping the position open longer and giving people more time to meet with us.

    5. Combinatorialist*

      I mean, it is frustrating for sure, but if they really want 5 years of HR experience, they are going to figure that out whether or not you lie on the form. Now on the one hand, they don’t really care, they are just sort of incompetent on setting up their form, and a real human would have decided they were interested. Certainly a possibility.

      On the other hand, they do care, a lot, it comes out in the interview that you only have 4, and now you are known to them as “someone who lied on our form” which hurts your chances for all jobs with them, not just this one. There is no way to know from the outside which one of these is the case. I would err on the side of integrity.

    6. Cat wrangler*

      I had a similar situation when I was making a graduate training scheme application for a large retail company in the UK. I was asked if I had a high school (age 16) exam in maths falling in the range A* to C which are considered ‘passes’. I did not have this for various reasons so was thrown out of the application. I emailed the HR department and explained that I had other qualifications in accounting and had worked in an accounting role for over 10 years. Someone replied, sympathising with my predicament but explained it was in the stated qualifications and no alternative / work experience in lieu would be accepted (or could be). I was infuriated but nothing I could do. No good starting a career with a company having lied on your application form with something so basic as they’d probably sack you as soon as it came out as it raises questions about your integrity. I did subsequently achieve that qualification so now I could tick ‘yes’ but I remain a non-employee of said company!

      I can see why organisations use screening questions but they can be a blunt tool.

  17. Tigger*

    It was super snowy last night and I was rear ended and have some bad whiplash. My boyfriend had to convince me not to go to work today cause I am so banged up and pointed out that I’m salary now so I won’t lose money. It clicked this morning that I have been working so many crappy hourly jobs that were in “sick days are for the weak” cultures that it totally warped my thinking.
    Has anyone else experience this type of moment?

    1. Dame Judi Brunch*

      All of the time. It was always drilled into my head starting with school to save your sick time for when you’re truly sick. Oh you want to use it now? Not sick enough!
      I always worry people will think I’m faking.

      1. Kuododi*

        As much as I love and respect my parents for so many reasons, they did drill into me from nursery school that staying home sick is for when I am puking up a lung or spiking massive fever. It wasn’t until seminary when I went through my clinical residencies that I began to get a different perspective. I realized if I didn’t take time when needed I would never be able to function effectively. I also had to learn that I also deserve to be treated well and care for myself. If I preached that message of self care to my clients and at the same time ran myself into the ground….what would that say about myself in the long run. Best wishes..

    3. Bunny Girl*

      Yes. It was so jarring to go from retail/food service jobs that made me come in while I was really, really sick to actually being treated like a human being and an adult. Like wait I can just take time off and not worry about picking up four extra shifts to pay my rent and you aren’t going to make me get a doctor’s note or call and harass me?

    4. Nessun*

      The very first time I traveled for vacation after becoming salaried (always retail/fast food before that), I was out of the country. On the drive from the airport to my hotel, my mind couldn’t stop cycling through “it’s a work day, I’m not working, I’m on vacation, I’m still getting paid?!” It was a very odd sensation, and it kept making me laugh.

      2. delta cat*

        First vacation after my transition from old management team to new management team, my conversation with my supervisor before I left included this exchange:

        Me: And of course, I’ll check my email at least once a day while I’m away.
        Her: Why would you do that?

        It was a real adjustment. It’s also one of the reasons, years later, why I’m still very fond of that particular supervisor.

    5. IEL*

      Yep. Last year I pushed myself even though I was feeling poorly, because I didn’t want people to think I was taking advantage of my company’s sick leave policy. Eventually I was so feverish I had to go see my doctor. I was like “sorry to bother you but I need a note to take a day off, I promise I’m not faking”. He took one look at me and told me I was on sick leave until further notice and asked why the hell I hadn’t gone earlier. Ended up taking 3 weeks of (paid, thank you so much) sick leave while I recovered. The idea that “sick days are for the weak” is really toxic. Get better soon!

    6. Jadelyn*

      Yep. I was in retail for awhile, which, y’know…you just don’t even get sick time or anything, and if you call in you can very easily get fired for it. Then when I made the move to office jobs, it was as a temp for several years, and I didn’t get sick or vacation through there, either.

      When I got converted from temp to regular employee at my current job, I literally almost cried when I realized it meant I would have sick days and vacation days. It’s taken a good couple of years before I could get comfortable with using my sick time when I need it.

      Is your manager pretty good at reasonable use of sick time for themselves? Or senior coworkers? That’s something that has helped me calibrate, seeing how/when/why my managers use their sick time off and modeling my own choices based on that.

      1. Tigger*

        There are 5 of us in the office and I am the youngest by 25 years. They all take random days off (mostly because we have 3+ weeks of vacation depending on how long they have been here) . I just feel bad because I can’t turn my brain off. I feel “lazy” and I ended going into to grab documents so I can at least try to work. I wish I had a laptop

    7. Akcipitrokulo*

      Yes. I still have it even when I’ve been in a healthy workplace for 5 years… the toxic legacy still rears its head sometimes.

    8. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain*

      Yes, and it doesn’t just warp your sense of sick days or vacation days but also not clock watching that your aren’t taking a 37.35 minute lunch instead of a 30 minute lunch, or arriving 7 minutes past 8 am because you got stopped at the world’s longest train crossing then behind a caravan of school buses and hit every red light in the state. It took about 2-3 years into my salary job before I relaxed enough to stop counting my time “on the clock” because there is no clock.

    9. Red*

      At my last job, it was my first ever job with PTO. My boss had to force me to take some of it, because I wasn’t using it – I was still in that fast food mentality of “if you want money, show up”. She had to tell me, “Red, pick a week. You will take that week off. You have PTO, and you need to use it”. It still didn’t “click” in my head that PTO was a real thing until I got my check for that week, and it had no less money than if I had worked.

    10. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      Meh. I was happy with salary until they got to work me 60hrs. Even when I was sick or on vacation. For the same rate. Now I get paid for every minute I spend here and it’s fantastic. So being exempt is a huge double edge sword and depends on your company culture.

    11. wafflesfriendswork*

      I think I’ve told this story before, but I had an accident once and went to my temp job a couple of days later with some pretty gnarly stitches in my upper lip–after seeing the damage they sent me home for the rest of the week, but I was working hourly and my insurance hadn’t kicked in (so I had living expenses on top of some pricey upcoming hospital bills). Was fully prepared to tough it out even though I knew I needed to rest and heal.

    12. TootsNYC*

      I relished the day I could say to the guy I’d recently converted from hourly to salary: “You don’t have to make up the hours you’re missing because you’re sick–you get sick days now!”

    13. TimeClockSlave*

      I’m confused, are salary employees not required to use PTO when out of the office? I’ve only ever been hourly.

      1. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

        There is some variation but first, no hourly job I’ve ever had gave paid sick time off: no work = no pay, therefore if I couldn’t afford to take time unpaid, I’d have to make it up by working additional hours. And all time was closely monitored so that I was paid only for what I worked — so take a longer lunch, not paid, in late, not paid… On salary, if I show up at all, and then go home sick, leave for an appointment, arrive late, take a longer lunch, I get paid for the full day; I never track any hours, and I don’t have to use any sick or vacation time for partial days. If I’m just out for the whole day, I use PTO.

      2. Windchime*

        I know that people say that salary and exempt employees get paid for the whole week if you work any part of it, but what they don’t say is that you have to use vacation or sick time if you miss days. At least, that’s always been true in the salary jobs I’ve had. I’ve never been able to just not show up for a day or two, not use vacation/sick, and still get paid for the whole week.

        But I’ve never had a boss make me use vacation or sick time if I’m a little bit late getting to the office or if I leave early for a doc appointment or something.

    14. Luisa*

      Oh yes. I was actually talking to a colleague about this today! My first 2 years teaching, I took zero sick days and only used 1 personal day each year. Now, 8 years in, I take all my personal days (all 4 of them in a 180-day school year, LOL) and while I don’t go crazy taking sick days, I’m much more likely to think critically about whether my health will really allow me to do my best that day.

      1. Indie*

        Oh my goodness do American educators get term-time personal days? I love that! It would revolutionise stress management.

  18. (Mr.) Cajun2core*

    Not so much of a problem but I had an interview earlier this week. The first question out of the interviewer’s mouth was “How old are you?”. I answered it (51) because I really want this job and I didn’t want to tick him off. Also, the man is ex-military (Colonel) and he may not be used to having his authority questioned. He also has not yet learned what he can ask and what he can’t in the real world (I have a friend who works for him).

    They are supposed to make a decision today.

    2. fposte*

      As you may know, it’s not illegal to ask; it’s just that they’re not supposed to use the information in hiring, which means asking is pretty pointless. I think you did the right thing; good luck!

      1. (Mr.) Cajun2core*

        Yes, I know it is not illegal to ask but that it can’t be used in the hiring process. Thanks on both items!

    3. I'm A Little Teapot*

      You are politer than me. I may have replied with “old enough to know not to ask that question in an interview”

      2. Not Me*

        This! When I first started in my career I was generally the youngest person in the room and almost always the only female. I quickly learned to respond to “how old are you?” with “old enough to know not to answer that”. Which generally got a laugh and I think helped to earn some respect.

    4. Jadelyn*

      Good luck! If you run across something like that again, I might suggest a mildly curious “Why do you ask?” before you answer. Often that’s enough to nudge someone into realizing they really shouldn’t be asking that.

      1. (Mr.) Cajun2core*

        That is a thought. However, in this case, I so want the job that I don’t want to cause any waves.

    5. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      Ah I’ve had that kind of boss. I had to be the one hushing him over a lot of the bad questions spilling out of his mouth.

    6. TootsNYC*

      It’s not illegal to ask.

      it’s just risky

      It IS illegal to factor it into the decision–and of course, not asking is the best way to keep from being accused. That said, just by looking at you, he has to know roughly how old you are. You’d think, anyway.

  19. grace*

    Do any of you have an MPP? What have you done with it, if so? Has it helped you? Have you felt stuck in policy or have you applied it elsewhere?

    I’m considering grad school in the next 3 years or so, and that’s the only one that’s caught my eye – ideally, with a focus in healthcare, but we’ll see. That said, I don’t want to make policy, really – I’m leaning more towards opinion polling as a more or less career path – so I’m wondering if it’s easy to leverage that degree elsewhere or if you really are expected to be in policy.

    1. OtterB*

      Not an MPP, and not doing policy work, but my job includes a lot of surveys and some program evaluation. You might look at “Applied Sociology” as a field, which would give you some flexibility. For example, the description of the MA at University of Maryland Baltimore Campus says “The degree program in Applied Sociology emphasizes the “practical side” of sociology and the acquisition of analytic skills to prepare students for employment in many professional settings, including public and private organizations involved in social research, social policy, and program development.”
      (apologize if this turns out to be a duplicate comment)

    2. Middle Manager*

      I don’t, but I’m actually looking at an MPA program right now. I debated MPP and MHP as well. I work in health care policy for the government. I’d be curious to hear more from others in this area.

    3. G*

      I’ve got an MPP and survey experience and I’d say that it could be right for you but I’d be pretty careful about where and the specifics of what you’re looking for in terms of skills and network.

      1. No policy, no problem. Most people I know haven’t gone into policy
      2. Health—be careful about where you go and joint coursework
      3. Opinion polling—depending on exactly what you want to do this could be great or useless. Think about if you’re interested in the quant aspects or something qualititative because those suggest really different ed paths.

      Generally I think MPPs are good if you don’t know exactly what you want to do and do a good job of exposing you to lots of different types of thinking and analysis. It’s really helped frame my thought process on a lot of subjects. They aren’t, and this might be a controversy opinion, much good for hard skills.

    4. TheOtherLiz*

      I have an MPP and even though I had a full scholarship so it was free tuition, it was expensive – it took two years during which I could only do part time work in my field, and everyone else got a Master’s too so it didn’t separate me from the pack. I learned more in one 6 month long internship on Capitol Hill than the policy side of the MPP program. The quant stuff was useful – stats, econ, econometrics – but that’s it. You could get a master’s in statistics if you’re interested in polling, or sociology, or just go work for a polling firm or on some campaigns. I feel it was a waste of my time to get that MPP, and I’m 8 years removed from the experience.

      1. Tacocat*

        Same. Have an MPP and loved the coursework but 10 years later never really got a job in the field and am still paying off that degree.

        OP, do a lot of research about the program, where the graduates work, where they intern, what professional development they have etc. I went to a tiny program at a huge state school in a small area with not a whole lot of career contacts. If I could do it over I’d aim higher and go to DC or somewhere with a lot more opportunity.

    5. Iza*

      I have an MPP and work in policy research and while we don’t do opinion polling, we do run surveys for multi mode studies. Some MPPs are more quantitatively focused and others less so, so if you’re interested in opinion polling I would make sure that the program offers coursework in surveys and opinion polling and the like. It also depends on whether you want to be the person writing the surveys or the programmer analyzing the data as those are different skillsets. In some cases it more important to have the quant skills needed for polling than the background in health care.

  20. Dame Judi Brunch*

    Any advice? I’m struggling with my open plan office, which includes my know-it-all coworker. She is an expert on all subjects no matter what. She’s also better than everyone. She butts into every conversation and half-listens.
    For the times I’m trying to think, headphones plus loud music have done nothing to cancel out the noise.
    Thank you!

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      In some cases you can legitimately ask someone to butt out. Especially if they’re not really correct in their assessment. “Sorry Lizzie, that’s not actually what we’re talking about, I think we’ve got this.” Or I’m passive aggressive so I’ll say, “oh sorry, we should take this conversation away from you since it’s probably distracting you.” A few corrections usually tones it down.

      1. Dame Judi Brunch*

        Thanks! I will try that.
        It seems no one has ever challenged her on work items, but once I did call her out on victim blaming. (We were having a non-work discussion about a natural disaster). She was cold to me for a day or so. Not sure if she was mad about being called out, or ashamed of herself.
        Pushing back should be interesting, I’ll have to be as calm as possible.

        1. Sloan Kittering*

          Yep, just calm, pleasant and upbeat. It’s okay if she’s sore for a few days – you already don’t like his person, so your goal is just to get her to stop doing things that are disruptive.

          1. TootsNYC*

            also, her feelings are not your responsibility. She can get over her mad all by herself; you don’t have to help her.

            You’re not supposed to make it worse, but you don’t have any responsibility to make sure she’s happy. That’s on her.

            (It’s actually sort of disrespectful to try to manage other people’s emotions.)

      2. Jules the 3rd*

        As the person regularly hearing conversations as I’m working, I would love this response, because, yes, yes it is distracting to hear conversations about whose team is going to win the SportsBall game, from people three + cubes away from each other, or standing in the aisle next to my cube.

        It’s often very hard *not* to hear other people’s conversations in cube farms.

        1. Jules the 3rd*

          No excuse for her giving wrong info / victim blaming, but ‘we’ll take this elsewhere, we seem to be distracting’ in a casual tone shouldn’t raise her hackles at all.

        2. Traffic_Spiral*

          Yeah, if this is going on a lot, maybe LW should consider just how often it is she’s holding conversations right in front of this person – maybe less time talking and more time working – also more time discussing work issues in a meeting room, if they need discussing.

          2. Dame Judi Brunch*

            That’s a fair point but I don’t think it’s the issue. Generally, Know-It-All is initiating all the non-work conversations, not only with me, but with everyone in our area. I do my best not to engage, but sometimes you do want to participate for fun and the group spirit. I don’t want to be the stick in the mud, plus I like most of my coworkers.
            She will interrupt anyone at anytime, non-work or work-related. It’s not always practical to take our conversation elsewhere, for example, I was training a new employee and we were working on their computer. She just walks up, looks over our shoulders, and started talking about what she thought we were doing. We don’t have laptops either. But I will take the advice and move out of the common area as much as I can.
            And, I forgot. She always reads memos and emails out loud. Long, drawn out messages- and she’s reading them out loud. It’s maddening! We just had to do a bunch of annual training courses, and she sat there and read it all. Loudly. These are self-paced, so it’s not like we were all working on them at the same time.
            All that said, she does have some valuable knowledge, and she is a good resource on things, and I will ask her questions because I would be dumb not to use a resource available to me. But it’s her way of going about things combined with the open office that I find exhausting.
            You all are great, thank you for the food for thought!

            1. Traffic_Spiral*

              “She always reads memos and emails out loud.”

              Oh, I would definitely be having words with her about that.

  21. Rosie The Rager*

    No snark, legitimate question

    How do you work with a boss who may have an undisclosed learning disorder that’s negatively affecting your job?

    I keeping finding myself in situations where my boss’ reading/comprehension issues are causing delays in the writing/editing timelines and causing the team to come dangerously close to missing deadlines. For example, Missy’s preference to only listen instead of reading press releases means that she declines to take a copy of my draft for her records and to confirm name spellings are correct. Instead, I must read the releases aloud and repeatedly answer questions addressed in the release. The reading and limited feedback have left me feeling very confused. Is this style common?

    More alarming is that this week I spent nearly three hours line editing a 14-page proposal in which she misspelled the prospective client’s name at least six times and wrote incomplete sentences that lacked a subject, verb and/or punctuation. She refused to let me edit the document electronically using the track changes, and I had so many grammatical corrections that after doing them on paper I had to list them in email for her. Basically, I both hand wrote and typed up edits for her, which took away time from my other duties.

    The other issue may be attributed more to her busy schedule. As I wind up my day and ask if she needs anything else, a laundry list of low-priority issues suddenly become absolute musts in the moment. This has caused me to leave upward of 30 minutes later than I intended. It also means that I’ve driven under the speed limit in the dark through heavy rain, snow and fog and crossed my fingers and toes to avoid hitting a deer on the way home.
    Can anyone share with me some ideas on how to work with Missy and also address concerns and assert my right to leave at a reasonable time?

    Thanks for your time.

    1. DMouse*

      No advice on the first part but lots of sympathy! I worked with a grand-boss that wasted a lot of my time giving me assignments from his higher-up with wrong instructions, due to his own comprehension issues combined with his phobia about asking for clarification because he thought it made him look stupid. On the second part, I would either stop asking if she has anything else for you to do (unless you’ve been told to ask that) – just say you’re heading out, see her tomorrow! Or if you have to ask, I would ask an hour earlier since you know she’ll suddenly some up with something. Good luck with this situation!

      1. valentine*

        If she hasn’t told you to ask her for last-minute stuff, you’re volunteering your preferred commute time. If she has, consider the last hour of your day hers and have a backup for when she’s not in or doesn’t have anything. (If she always has something, maybe she feels like can’t say no.) So your day is: stuff/last-minute BS/leave on time or stuff/no BS/bits/leave on time. If it’s not a butt-in-seat job, maybe you can leave even earlier for wintry weather and, if you’re non-exempt, make up the time elsewhere.

        Reading to her is useless because your brain may just fill in what’s supposed to be there. I am picturing you standing, but even sitting and, should you happen to catch an error, handwriting corrections, seems like a ’50s/’60s nightmare. If she refuses all the fine help suggested in this thread, ask if she’ll let you choose someone to proofread your stuff.

    2. WellRed*

      I have never in my life heard of having to stand there and read a draft or whatever to the boss. What a colossal waste of time. Are you sure she can actually read, or maybe she has dyslexia or something?

    3. BetsCounts*

      For the error tracking- would it be possible to bring this up with her? Something along the lines of ‘I know you prefer to listen to the release, but I’ve found that sometimes typos and misspellings aren’t noticed that way- can you try reading a copy as well?’

      In my former position, I did a **ton** of copyediting, and what worked for me was marking up a copy in red pencil and scanning it and sending it to the recipient. That way they had an electronic record of the changes and I wasn’t typing out
      page 3 line 15 client name misspelled
      page 3 line 20 column does not sum correctly
      etc.

      Re track changes- would you be able to talk about how it would save time for you to incorporate the comments instead of her doing it?

      I agree with DMouse’s suggestion to ask about other tasks little earlier in the day- if you usually ask around 330 move it up an hour and say you’ll be done with your other tasks soon. Then when she comes back with a half dozen time consuming things, you can ask if what is more important than what you are currently working on and what can wait until the morning.

      Good luck!

    4. Reba*

      Have you had a frank conversation with her where you lay out these issues? For example, a chat about the editing problems: “I’d like to see if we can work out a better process for doing these edits. When we did X release, we nearly missed the deadline because it took you so long to [respond, go through it, whatever]. On the Client proposal Y, I basically did the same work three times, which is inefficient in general and cost me important time on Z. I would like to propose we try [New Process]”

      As for what that process should be, are there ways you can get information from her efficiently, like a checklist? Would she be willing to give you more authority over these documents so that she doesn’t have to closely read everything? Like, instead of reporting her errors to her, you could just fix them and send it back for her to sign off on.

      Finally, can you take this concern to someone else — do you have a good rapport with boss’s boss so you could speak with them–this would be a step to take if things are really dire. Is there someone discreet who has been at the organization longer than you that you could ask for tips or additional perspective?

      As for the end of day stuff… don’t ask for more work at the end of the day? Sorry that sounds flip. I mean, if you regularly do end of day check-ins, try framing it as “I’m leaving at 5:30. What should I get on first thing tomorrow” — or even have this kind of meeting at the start of the day or start of the week, rather than the end.

      1. valentine*

        it took you so long
        Diplomacy and passive voice are needed here. Missy getting defensive won’t get Rosie The Rager what she needs.

        Rosie The Rager, look out for how this is impacting your performance evaluations and your reputation. Do people, like Missy’s manager, know you’re not the cause of the errors and delays?

    5. Yorick*

      I would probably stop asking her for tasks at the end of the day, unless she requires that before you leave.

    6. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      Woah…I was ready to jump in because I’ve worked with a few dyslexic bosses and ESL as well in my time. So their unable to edit to be frank but that’s why they had me do their correspondence work. It sounds like her issues are actually making it impossible for her to do her job which is outrageous to say the least.

    7. Miss Displaced*

      Regarding the last part, with some busy bosses that does happen. They’re traveling or on calls all day, and then at 4:30 EVERYTHING suddenly becomes urgent. There are ways to manage upward, such as checking at say 10am, 12pm and 3pm so tasks don’t pile up at the end of the day.

      For the first part: No, this is not normal! Basically, you’re saying your boss doesn’t know how to use Word and review or track changes. Worse, they refuse to READ? Seriously? And while I do recommend reading a press release or a letter out loud, it is as a last final step, because sometimes you just catch things that sound weird that way.

      If your boss is that bad, I might suggest they recored the content and have you transcribe it? It seems like that might work better than all this back and forth where she won’t look at a Word draft. As for the spellings of names, I’m not sure what to say about that. That aspect can be tricky even for seasoned PR people (is it Ricky or Ritchie? AtEssoteric or at Eso Terek, Limited? you get the drift), and you have to know how to confirm it, either by the Internet or by in-house means, such as contacts or a database, etc. I run in to that all the time too, especially with tech companies. I had that just this week with a three letter company, listed only as TSP. When I Googled it, there were at least 10 possibilities! I finally had to ask someone which TSP it was.

      1. Not Me*

        Can you suggest to her using some kind of software to read the copy to her? As opposed to you reading it to her? I’ve used google translate before on documents I’ve spent so much time on I know I’m just reading what I think it says and might miss a typo. It can be very helpful for editing.

        Otherwise, it sounds like she’s incapable of doing her job. Can you talk to her manager about it? This isn’t really something a direct report can handle, it’s about managing her and that’s not really something you’re capable of in your role.

        1. valentine*

          A screenreader is a great idea! But I am thinking she just does not want assistive devices. There’s font and graded blue/red for dyslexia, screen magnifiers if it’s her eyesight, so much help to be had, yet she’s sabotaging the copyediting.

        2. Indie*

          Audio features are what I use to help struggling readers. So not only will it help in the moment, it will improve boss’s literacy….it would only take a year or two to reach basic comprehension and sentencing levels even if she has all the undiagnosed acronyms.

          But I am honestly amazed she is in her position at all. The level of literacy the OP describes means she would not be able to pass even primary school exams. If she graduated high school with assistance (readers or scribes in exams) then she would be diagnosed and aware of the tools and aids she needs to be independent.

          I would look into going to HR and saying ‘This is awkward, but my role is turning into an accommodation for …..something and I don’t think it is a reasonable one”. They would know how she was hired and if she lied about qualifications or had someone else write the materials.

        4. CurrentlyBill*

          Word can read out loud by default. You don’t have to position it as an accessibility thing either.

          I use use the function when I want to proof read something important, and I don’t have time to let it bake. If I read i read what is supposed to be there. If Word reads out loud, I hear what’s actually there.

    8. Not So NewReader*

      “Boss, I am concerned about the amount of time I spend editing. I worry that there are other things slipping through the cracks. I do however have a couple of ideas that I have heard of people using [insert ideas here].”

      And I will be one of those people giving you ideas.

      My boss’ vision is dimming. Unlike your setting, my boss tells me exactly what is going on. This is great! I have been able to find stuff to help her do her job. [She gets so excited when I show her something.] The latest thing is the read out loud function for MS Word and for pdfs. I had to fish around to find it on each.
      You can set the speed for the reader- the reader can talk faster or slower which ever the listener prefers. There are some glitches such as the abbreviation for Doctor would be read out loud as “drrr”, such as “Drrr Smith” instead of “Doctor Smith”.

      Using the read out loud function as an example, maybe you can say to your boss something like, “You know, Boss, when I am reading this you are losing my time elsewhere. I could be doing things that are of even more value to you. I just found this read out loud function, I would like to show it to you. The computer can read it to you. Best part, it’s available when you want it, you don’t have to wait for me.”
      See, as you introduce this idea to her, you sprinkle in reasons why it is to her advantage to take a look at this.

      The mistakes you talk about here are sounding VERY familiar to me. My boss does a lot of this stuff. The difference in our settings is that my boss knows and talks about it. The reason for the missed words and incomplete sentences is that she can only see part of the screen at all times. She is unable to see the whole screen. So basically she is memorizing what she wrote as she is going along. Back tracking is a nightmare as she can lose her place easily.
      And yes, she wants to see her mistakes. Well, in our work if I make a correction it could make a substantial difference in the process and it is very possible that I would not understand the implication of my mistaken word choice.

      Depending on what is going on with her eyes at the moment my boss sometimes enjoys a very large font- size 24 or a very small font say like 8 or 10. I prefer 12. However, my very cool boss knows what font size she needs this week and tells me “size 24, okay?” It’s not a problem to get her what she needs.

      Instead of talking about a health issue you can refer to things as “you might like this” or “might find this useful”. If you have little helper things you use, you can share what you do to help yourself along. I have been trying to show my boss more and more keyboard short cuts. (She can’t just google them, because it takes too long to read the screen and she can’t be sure if she has read the whole screen sometimes.)

      But this could be a vision problem with a huge side dish of fear/concern. Yeah, I’d be afraid, also, that makes sense. It might be with one or two attempts to help your boss like this she will finally tell you what will work for her. I have a good boss. At one point the doc pulled her DL because of cataracts. So technically speaking she was considered blind. She came into work and told me exactly what was going on. We bounced around several ideas and she picked about three. I implemented those ideas immediately. Bad situation. but we both ended up pretty happy with the new setup. Within a few months she had her cataracts removed and things got better for a bit for her.

  22. Rach*

    I think this is work related enough to be in this thread!

    I’ve just agreed to go to a conference that my boyfriend is doing a poster presentation at. It’s an academic conference (he’s a PhD student) and it’s in Hawaii! The conference is 4 days and then we’re having 2 and a half week’s holiday too.

    I’m super excited for the holiday part of the trip but wondered if anyone here had any experience with being the ‘tag-along partner’ on these kind of trips and had any tips they could share with me?

    1. Dr. Doll*

      Amuse and take care of yourself and let him go to his entire conference without making him feel bad that he can’t play with you.

      Hawaii’s a super nice place to do that. :-)

      1. AvonLady Barksdale*

        Exactly this. I’ve gone on a few conference trips with my partner (also a PhD student), including one where he swore up and down he would have time to join me for dinner and it turned out he didn’t so I was totally on my own (with the dog for some of them). Be flexible. Enjoy your own company. Don’t expect him to come with you but consider it a bonus if he can. Plan your day however you like– beach, museums, shopping, lounging, whatever. Personally, I enjoy eating alone (probably more than most people), so when I’ve been solo for meals I’ve made it an event.

        Pack something you would be ok wearing just in case he calls you up and invites you to join him and his colleagues for a drink (or a meal). This doesn’t have to be business formal; a pair of slacks or dark jeans and a top should be fine, or a dress. Have fun!

    2. Minerva McGonagall*

      I’m tagging along on my husband’s conference trip in a few months (although not to as an exciting location as Hawaii!). I’ve been doing research into some good solo stuff to do in the area – spas, museums, lunch spots, etc. Depending on his schedule if you meet up in the evenings, he’ll likely be tired from being “on” all day, so we’ll do something low-key at night or grab dinner at the hotel restaurant or get room service.

      1. TootsNYC*

        also, try to focus on things that matter more to you than to him. Or that are easy to do twice without feeling like you’ve lost the newness.

    3. LadyByTheLake*

      Pretend like he’s still on the mainland for the days he’s at the conference. He’ll be super-busy and needs to concentrate on that. Find things to do for those days that amuse you but he wouldn’t find as interesting.

    4. Even Steven*

      Also don’t assume if he has any team conference dinners that you can attend them – check or have him check with the organizer. You don’t want that awkward moment where his colleagues wonder why you’re there and the organizer is annoyed that they now have to buy dinner for you too. Always have a nice fallback dinner plan (room service!) just in case.

      And I second the idea to look into local area attractions to enjoy during the day. It’s a great opportunity to go see something new and make the most of the trip. Have a great time! Hawaii is wonderful.

    5. The Cosmic Avenger*

      I’d suggest making up a list of things you want to see and do, and let your BF check off the ones he really wants to do also, so you can plan which to do while he’s at the conference, and which to do in the off-hours with him. Maybe this is just me and my partner, but we do a lot of our travel planning around restaurants! If I were going to HI, I’d be looking for the best poke and puka dogs and musubi and wahoo….you get the idea. I would try to plan my daytime activities (assuming he’s mostly attending the conference during the day) so I could be back at the conference center to spend time with him in the evening. It’s OK to want to do things separately sometimes, but after not seeing you all day he’ll probably really be looking forward to spending time with you. Although he might need 10-30 minutes to change clothes or just sit/lay down for a few minutes, especially if he has to stand at a board at a poster session all day!

      Enjoy your trip!

    6. ursula*

      I’ve done this multiple times! And Hawaii rules. I more or less agree w Dr Doll, but I would say just talk to your partner first to establish very clear expectations about what his time will be like, where (if anywhere) he would actually *like* you to join them, etc. There’s often lots of informal, social-but-still-important activity that goes on in the evening/breakfast/surrounding the official conference – I would sometimes join my partner if he was going for drinks with old colleagues who I was also friendly with, but that was rare and I’m glad we agreed in advance on how we wanted all of that to work. Mostly I think you should consider the conference your solo vacation time and plan accordingly. Other than that, I think the same rules apply as any other time you are making an appearance in your partner’s professional circles, which I’m sure you know very well: don’t drink too much, be a little bit on your best behaviour, etc etc. I hope you have a great time!! I LOVE getting a free hotel room out of my partner’s business travel.

    7. BuffySpecialist*

      You could plan some activities to do solo, particularly ones where your partner maybe isn’t super interested in. (Like if you enjoy hiking and he’s kind of meh, take one on your own! Hawaii is incredible for that.)

    8. Hi there*

      I agree with everyone else on planning that you basically won’t see your BF during the conference. Whenever I tag along at dear one’s math conference I end up frustrated when we plan to meet for dinner. Either we meet much later or several mathematicians decide to join us. We once had about a dozen mathematicians follow us to a restaurant like a bunch of ducklings. In retrospect that was pretty funny.

    9. Camellia*

      We spent our honeymoon in Hawaii and they have ‘tourist experience’ down to an art, which makes it so easy! We asked at the hotel desk how to arrange to get to X place for the horse rides. She picked up a phone and in about two minutes had us the date, time, AND the shuttle to get us to and from. Everything is like that. One time we misjudged how long the morning aquarium/swim with dolphins experience would take and we had booked another excursion (of some kind, can’t remember what) in the afternoon. When we went to Guest Services at the aquarium they picked up the phone and had a shuttle there in about 15 minutes, just for us!

      Thanks for giving me the chance to remember this; our 15 year anniversary is this month! :)

    10. Cheesesteak in Paradise*

      I assume you will be on Honolulu at the conference center there. I went to a meeting there a year and a half ago.

      I second do your own thing.

      Couple location specific tips:
      * conference center is close to Waikiki beach
      * conference center is close to a huge mall (blanking on the name) with an attached Foodland supermarket and an Asian food court – Foodland has an excellent poke bar and the Asian food court is good too for lunch
      * good nearby WWII museum
      * Pearl Harbor is NOT nearby but worth taking a taxi too – you need tix in advance
      * you also need tix in advance to Doris Dukes Shangri La house

      1. Lady Kelvin*

        The mall is the Ala Moana Center, but the International Marketplace (in Waikiki) also has good restaurant options. You only need tickets for the Arizona Memorial if you want to go on the boat ride. You can’t actually visit the USS Arizona, they take you on a ride around the harbor instead because the Memorial itself is closed due to repairs. You’d have to pay for the tickets if you get them ahead of time, but if you go on a weekday morning you will most likely be able to get free tickets. The museum, etc. that’s there is worth a look and is all free.

        But I’m going to chime in with the rest of the group. Assume you won’t see your boyfriend except when he comes back to the hotel to sleep, and enjoy 4 days of quiet in Hawaii.

    11. Gloucesterina*

      Fun–revel in your freedom! My husband and son tagged along a lot with me to academic conferences (back when my son was under the age of 2 and didn’t need a separate airfare). They generally did some research as to kid-friendly local attractions and kept themselves busy as I scrambled to finish up the paper and freaked out about presenting, lol. So there was not so much a “tag along” situation, as separate activities with intermittent meeting points, generally meeting for meals or short walks.

    12. CupcakeCounter*

      Lots of conferences have a section on their website for the +1’s. Its usually some organized day trips and interesting sites to check out within walking distances of the main location. Bring a few nice outfits in case you are invited for cocktails or dinner and don’t get uber drunk.

    13. Mephyle*

      My husband travels several times a year to academic workshops and conferences in his field. I just research what’s interesting to do and to eat in the area, and how to get there, and go do my own thing.
      ‘Even Steven’ mentioned checking to see if you are allowed to join him for any of the conference social events.
      I have the opposite problem. I have to ask him explicitly when and where the social events (dinners, excursions) are – the events where the ‘others’ have the opportunity or are even expected to attend. Otherwise he forgets to tell me until a few hours before.

    14. Rach*

      Thanks for all the advice everyone! I’d already assumed i’d be on my own a lot but it’s definitely good to have it confirmed that it will be for the majority of the time! We’re staying with 2 other friends in an airbnb so I’ll have my own space to chill out rather than being stuck in a hotel room all the time, and i’m going to plan some activities for myself, along with taking plenty of books to read on the beach.

      Thanks for all the recommendations too, i’ll check them out!

  23. Caputo*

    Can anyone else relate? I gave up toxic and stressful high paying job to take a pay cut and a lower level job. Current job pays the bills (OK but not spectacular wages and benefits). But a very sane, healthy workplace. Good management, great rapport with team and boss. Excellent work life balance. I am very happy where I am now.

    I worry though, if being in a position for long a step down in title and responsibilities from my previous jobs would be harmful for my career in the long run. I’d like to get back to my previous level at some point and earn more money. Is this a realistic fear?

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      Could depend on your industry, but I’ve done that several times, and I haven’t regretted a single one. The best way to get a pay bump later is to switch jobs. Hopefully you live in a place where it’s illegal for potential employers to ask candidates abotu salary history. Even if you don’t, you can still opt not to disclose (because they really shouldn’t be basing your new salary on your current salary).

    2. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      It’s a risk but not an outrageous one.

      I’ve taken a step back and went into an EA role from an exhausting decade in business operations. I was easily able to slide back into higher titles when I moved. I explained my stepping back as a detoxing from the stress from the previous role given specifics of my job that weren’t viewable as “talking poorly” about my employer.

      You just need to be able to articulate your decisions. Don’t be too vague or else they’ll assume you stepping back wasn’t your choice but you were wrongly placed too high and got chopped back.

    3. only acting normal*

      My husband and I have each taken paycuts to improve our work situation (each left toxic situations, he took a career change, I didn’t). Best decisions ever, didn’t miss the money compared to the vast improvement in life generally. Long term our careers haven’t suffered from those moves either.

    4. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

      Im about to potentially move into a new career and I was worried about a potential pay cut and taking a step back in title too and the long term impact. Glad to see it doesn’t sound all bad and, frankly, to have work I actually enjoy doing would probably make up a lot of the gap.

    5. Basia, also a fed*

      In my experience, it hasn’t. I went from being an assistant VP making 6 figures with a dozen direct reports to being just another non-supervisory technical person. I took a 22% pay cut and it was SUCH a relief. But my bosses keep asking me to apply for supervisory jobs and wanting me to go to leadership trainings to stage myself for when opportunities arise. I just laugh maniacally…

    6. Indie*

      Only with the kind of employers who are soooooo interested in the ‘what’s your current salary’ question. You don’t want to work for those guys anyway.

      There’s another kind of employer who doesn’t want burned out employees and who would be impressed by your self care. This group will also want to know what other effects it has had on your skills, hard and soft so I would consider if you have good examples of that.

        1. Forkeater*

          When I’m falling asleep I like to start by reviewing all the little failures I made during the day, then look for evidence that these failures are actually a pattern throughout my life and any successes have been the outliers.

          With some mild seasonal affective disorder, I sometimes take breaks during the day to go through this process too.

    2. PB*

      Oooh this is tricky. It’s sometimes inspiring to see “Failure Resumes” from very successful people, as a reminder that we all struggle sometimes, and no one will ever be successful 100% of the time. On the other hand, we had a candidate apply once. His application materials included a URL to his personal website, which included a resume of failure. It did not come across well. He included, for instance, a section for jobs for which he’d had a final interview but been rejected. As a hiring committee, we looked at this and imagined getting added to that section. No thanks. And, honestly, if you’re in the middle of a job search that isn’t going well, maybe keeping a list of your failures isn’t the best thing for your psyche.

      1. CatCat*

        Nooooooooooooooo! I would never give such a thing to a prospective employer, just keep it for personal use (though it could come in handy for interview prep for “Tell me about a time…” type questions like “Tell me about a time you mistake at work….”)

      2. SavannahMiranda*

        “He included, for instance, a section for jobs for which he’d had a final interview but been rejected.”

        Well that’s just a humble brag right there. But I guess the whole thing is.

        I think that’s what is so cloying about failure resumes. They’re bro-speak humble brags dressed up in a suit and tie.

    3. 653-CXK*

      I keep a spreadsheet of all of the jobs I applied for, and categorize any I didn’t get as “Declined,” “Withdrawn,” and “Not Considered.” I also keep a list of jobs I didn’t hear from (“Ghosted”) in case they do call back or decide not to consider me.

      First, it helps me keep track. Second, anything that goes into the “Out” pile I make comments on so I can improve (e.g. “Archie the hiring manager was late and told me they wouldn’t be making decisions until April.” “Per Gloria at the hiring agency, I was not selected.”)

    4. Frozen Ginger*

      I think it depends on what kind of person you are.

      In general, great idea. But you have to be able to keep the mindset of “this is so I can acknowledge how much I’ve grown and so I can continue to grow”. For me, I already get that sense from my list of accomplishments. Writing down a list of my failures would be disheartening. Instead of seeing how much I’ve grown and persevered, I’d see “Look at how often you fork up! You’re probably going to continue to fork up. Forever. You suck.”

    5. Yorick*

      I don’t have one, but when my grad students are nervous about submitting papers for publication, I open up my cv and tell them how many times each article was rejected before it was accepted.

  25. Bunny Girl*

    We have a lot of committees in our department and one of them is a social committee. I kind of feel bad for the guy running it because we’re just not a very social department. We have two events throughout the year that the committee was set up to help plan, but the new committee head wants to make it more of a monthly thing. We have a huge divide between our staff and our faculty and none of the staff members will go to anything that’s off of work hours. Not only does everyone on staff have other things going on besides just work (school, kids, other commitments), but whenever we go to anything “social” we’re expected to do all the cleaning up and working of the event. Which is totally fine if I’m on the clock and getting paid for it, but I’m not going to do it off the clock. There’s been some scuttle about the staff not going to any of the off hours social events but honestly none of us even remotely want to. It’s interesting.

    1. Jules the 3rd*

      Do you think the new committee head would also find it interesting? as in, ‘Hey NCH, staff participation will be higher if events are during their normal working hours’

      1. Bunny Girl*

        They want to have alcohol at some of the events and we can’t have alcohol in our office. Honestly annual events are pretty balanced between off working hours and during business hours. He’s just wanting to add a lot of extra ones. I’m not really jazzed about him wanting a ton of extra events because then we (the staff) have to do more work and set up and clean up. As I said, our social events are never social for the staff. It’s just more work.

        1. ..Kat..*

          Has anyone told him that the staff are not up to do free labor of setting up and cleaning up? He and other faculty may just be oblivious to this.

          Also, I would say that if I am doing work (setting up and cleaning up), I expect to be paid for my time. If you are non-exempt, it is illegal not to pay you for your labor. And, if the faculty don’t see this as labor, faculty can set up and clean up.

    2. Joielle*

      Ugh, yes. Not the same situation exactly, but a new hire in my department has sort of appointed herself as the social committee and we, too, are not a super social bunch. I’d go out for a post-work happy hour once in a while, but she’s started organizing monthly potlucks, and it’s just too much. I don’t want her to be discouraged or offended when people don’t participate, but I’m also not making a themed potluck dish every month so idk.

    3. Armchair Analyst*

      Maybe try quarterly events first.
      I feel like monthly events slide into every 6 weeks pretty quickly, anyway.

      1. Bunny Girl*

        Honestly even if they were quarterly, I wouldn’t go to them if they were after work hours. For one, I’m a student and I work full time and have a time consuming hobby and after I get off work I’m beat. I’m also just not social by nature. Like at all.

    4. TootsNYC*

      we’re expected to do all the cleaning up and working of the event.

      Has this ever been explicitly said out loud? I always wonder if this sort of understandable resentment ever gets specifically stated.

      1. TootsNYC*

        and, even if it IS working hours, I would resent the idea that somehow “mom” chores, “maid” chores, or “custodial” chores are mine.

        We sometimes have lunches, or drinks after work for the holidays, and our department head ALWAYS does clean-up, as do I (section leader). There is NO WAY I would ever allow the lower-paid folks to do that work. Ever.

        1. TootsNYC*

          OK, sometimes they help, and I’m not going to make it awkward, but I’m proactive about getting the cleanup off their plate.

      2. Bunny Girl*

        Yes. When I interviewed they said some of my job would be to help set up our socials, just like the rest of the staff. Which is fine, but I assumed that it meant the ones I was actually getting paid for, and our other staff did too. One of our staff went to one off hour thing one time and she was told to help set up and clean up even though she wasn’t on the clock.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      Eh, tell him what you said here or not.
      I can understand feeling bad for the guy but in the end he will probably have to figure it out for himself. I had a situation where a very nice person was trying to build the social side of our department at Dysfunction Are Us, Inc. It was too bad as this person was very nice and did not deserve the backlash. Not much anyone could do about that. And the project got abandoned after a few months.

    6. Kay*

      Suggest that future events be catered and offsite (namely, in a staffed venue). If they don’t want to pay someone else to clean up, and they don’t want to pay y’all to clean up, then it seems they cannot afford to host an event after all.

      Not quite the same but I worked in a hotel restaurant for many years. Monthly “appreciation” events were held over the lunch hour, and catered by us. So after adding “appreciation” prep onto our normal workload, assuming we could get away for 5 lunch-rush minutes to partake, we got to see management don aprons and accept all the credit. But at least we were on the clock!

      After many years of dissatisfaction, they finally brought in a food truck. Just like that, we started to feel a little more appreciated. ;)

  26. Tris Prior*

    I know there have been a ton of questions about this but I can’t seem to find any of them in search for some reason – can someone point me to how you list a job on your resume when your job title and responsibilities stay the same, but the company’s been bought several times and thus has changed names repeatedly?

      1. No Tribble At All*

        Yup. Mine is:
        Global Llamas, Inc. (formerly Llamas R Us, LlamaStartUp)
        Senior Llama Groomer 2014 – present

        Also, if there were a /bunch /of intermediary companies that each were only in charge for a few months, you might start at the earliest and skip to the most recent. Or factor in name recognition. I keep LlamaStartUp because it was newsworthy and has different connotations than Global Llamas.

    2. Lena Clare*

      I put down the name that the organisation had when they employed me and then in brackets afterwards I just put what it’s now known as.

      E.g.
      1999-2005
      Dead sea scrolls scribe at Tranlators R Us (now Translations A Go-Go).
      You wouldn’t have to put its various incarnations in between either, that will be fine I think.

      I also wonder if you can just put the name it’s known as now? They can Google.

  27. CBH*

    I started working in a new office. Everyone has private work areas, but due to the nature of the business, everyone is in and out of each other’s offices. Your allowed to play music softly, but the company prefers one not using headphones. I love listening to audio books, but wonder if that is ok. I like detective series, I’m not listening to anything that might be offensive, but I imagine someone walking into my area while a fictional detective describes his theories of deduction is quite different than walking into an office where a song everyone knows is playing. I find listening to music distracts me – I like music a lot but find it frustrating when I can’t find what songs I want to listen to. The audio books just become background noise to me.

    1. StressedButOkay*

      Oohh, that’s a tough one. I think the problem might be that since it’s background noise to you, you might not catch something that’s a bit…I don’t want to say NSFW but maybe off for an office? Like, discussion of a murder, curse words, an unexpected adult scene?

      If you find music frustrating because it’s random/you can’t find songs you want to listen to, have you tried Spotify? You can save songs to your Library and create different playlists – things that you’ve cultivated specifically.

    2. Even Steven*

      But the audio books might not come across as background noise to your colleagues. It could come across as annoying as someone putting a call on speakerphone. Talking voices can really distract. If I were you I wouldn’t do this.

    3. Diatryma*

      I worry that focusing on a book would take away from your work. If what you want it background noise with words, you could find a podcast (maybe one of the droning put-you-to-sleep ones) or coffeeshop white noise site.

      1. BetsCounts*

        This is an excellent suggestion. I really like Noisli for the white noise. Then for podcasts, maybe the Shipping Forecast, or In Our Time? If you get pushback from supervisors about ‘listening to podcasts instead of working’ you can explain you are using it as a white noise generator. I used to listen to In Our Time when I was getting eyelash extensions and it put me RIGHT OUT.

      2. TW*

        “Sleep With Me” would be good for this – he is SUPER conscientious about anything that might startle or offend. Like, he’s friends with the gals from My Favorite Murder, but he won’t say “murder” on his show, so it’s always “MFM podcast.”

        Also: https://www.ambient-mixer.com lets you blend recorded sounds into an ambient noise setup – up to eight tracks. You can save your own, and listen to ones other people have saved. I mostly use nature sounds in mine, but there’s all kinds of stuff, including a wide variety of cafe noises. This might be a good way to have voices in the background without having to worry about content. There are a TON of Harry Potter ones, like “Gryffindor Common Room” and whatnot. It’s fun.

      3. TootsNYC*

        I know it becomes background music to you, but as an observer, I would not believe this.

        I mean, if you were filing, or cleaning, or something somewhat mindless. But if you were doing anything that took creativity, thinking, or attention to detail, I think you might make a bad impression.

    4. Coffee Bean*

      Hmm… okay long debate short, I think audio books are fine.

      See on one hand, you may be zoning it out, but (especially in crime/detective novels) there are themes that are not normal in a workplace. Murder and violence tends to be driven by acts that just aren’t talked about in the workplace, and someone overhearing that may be a bit taken-aback for just a minute.

      But, even if they were taken-aback I don’t think it would be for long, nor would it be a big deal. Also, people listen to podcasts at work all the time, which range in a wide variety of appropriateness. I think the audio books fall into the same category as podcasts, which (I believe) is a completely acceptable thing to listen to throughout the workday. Some people drown out stories better than music.

      The best teller here though may just be thinking about your office culture. Would your colleges feel comfortable enough to say something if they were uncomfortable? Would you feel shame/worry every time someone came into your office, forcing you to quickly turn it off so they may not overhear?

    5. curious*

      Thank you all for your feedback. I listen to audio books at a very low volume, so low that when you are passing by my office most people don’t realize I have something on. (of course I posted my question for the few people who have supersonic hearing and canhear the audio book). We all have a friendly relationship with each other and our boss where if someone is playing something too loud/ not appropriate there are no hard feelings being told to turn it off. I always turn the book off when the phone rings or when someone is in my actual office. I did ask my boss if audio books were ok, and did mention I like detective series. We even talked about our favorite authors. Same with my coworkers. I guess I’m just concerned that I covered all bases incase someone outside of my work group over hears something out of context. On a side note, while I am concerned that something like a descriptive crime scene might be overheard, I belong to an online book club where we compare books and the club even has a page titled “can I listen to this at work”. I also try to save the beach read/ “hallmark movie” type reads for work. As for potentially being distracted I’ve been listening to audio books most of my life and it has become second nature to me to follow the story and work.

        1. valentine*

          I think it’s fine. I was going to say pause it when people enter, but you’re already doing that. People with supersonic hearing can deal.

    6. Fellow Traveler*

      Would your company be ok if you listen with just one earbud in? I work in an open office where we need to talk to each other a lot, so when I listen to podcasts or audiobooks, I just listen on one side.

  28. Ihmmy*

    The earlier post about “young lady” got me thinking about this a bit more concretely. I’ve never much liked my coworker and myself being referred as “girls” or “ladies” and I’m realizing some of it comes from gender fluid / non binary sides to myself. I’m not at a point where I necessarily want/need people to be using they/them pronouns for me, but how do I tell coworkers to stop with referring to the two of us as ‘girls’ (both over 30) or ‘ladies’ when I know they have good intentions? I don’t want to make it a Big Deal but I also want to it happen less.

      1. valentine*

        Pick a word you won’t mind (or just your names, if you think your coworker would insist she wants to be called lady or vote it’s not sexist) and say, “X (or Ihmmy and Stevie) is fine.”

    2. BugSwallowersAnonymous*

      I struggle with this, too, for some reason “ladies” especially annoys me. I’m not sure how to raise it at work in a way that feels casual and low-key, though.

      1. Frozen Ginger*

        For me the annoyance comes from the formality of “ladies”, and how it feels like a remnant of misguided “chivalry”. I’m not a delicate “lady”. I don’t mind variations of “ladies and gents”, but when it’s just “ladies” it grates on my nerves.
        I prefer to use “guys” in a gender-neutral manner, but I’m trying to find something else because I know others don’t like it.

        1. BugSwallowersAnonymous*

          I think that’s what bugs me about it too. I don’t personally mind “guys” as a gender neutral term but I also try to steer clear of it because I know others do. Sometimes I say “Hi all,” or “you all”? But that can feel awkward, especially if I’m only addressing two people.

    3. Canonical23*

      You can always make a joke, “oh, I’d never refer to myself as a lady/girl/etc.” and follow it up with “I don’t want to make a big deal about it, but could you use [whatever term you prefer – dudes/guys/homies/person-of-interest] instead?”

      Nice people will probably shrug and try their best to use what you prefer. Mean people won’t, but they’re mean and that makes them look bad.

      1. Frozen Ginger*

        I think joking is a good bet (if you it’s okay to joke in the context). ” ‘Girl’? Excuse you, I am a grown adult.” said in a mock-offended way. My favorite response to being called a lady is “Pfft. I ain’t no lady.”

      2. Alice*

        What I like about this is it doesn’t just say what you want them to stop doing; it also says what you want them to do instead. More likely to get success, too, I think. “I shouldn’t say ladies, I should say X” is easier than “I shouldn’t say ladies, what should I say?”

    4. Baby Fishmouth*

      I absolutely HATE when people refer to me and my coworkers as ‘girls’ or ‘ladies’ – and I’m cisgender. It just somehow feels so patronizing. I have several coworkers who will walk past and say “Hello Ladies!” and it makes me cringe internally. I know they aren’t doing it out of malice, so I don’t say anything, but I wish I had a standing to do so. I much prefer the gender-neutral “hey guys” or just “hello!”.

      1. CastIrony*

        I’m like this, too! I, along with my best friend, are about to ask to be addressed by Mx. because I want to be known for what I can do, not my marriage status! Shame we don’t know how to go about it!

        1. Alice*

          I’ve been known to say “hello ladies” and “hello gentlemen,” but if you told me you didn’t like it I’d make a point of not saying that to or about you. Ideally you’d tell me another word that you prefer.
          Your standing to ask coworkers to use a different word doesn’t depend on their motivation. Think of it this way — if someone calls “Amanda” instead of “Alice” I’m going to correct them; it doesn’t matter _why_ they were calling me “Amanda.”

        2. Jasnah*

          You could certainly ask to be addressed by Ms., which was created to have one feminine title not tied to marriage status (unlike Mrs. and Miss) and has been around for a very long time. Mx. is gender-neutral in addition to marriage-neutral.

    5. Joielle*

      A couple years ago there was a new staff member who would email me and a few female colleagues with “Hi ladies” or similar, and after a couple of these emails (and confirming with the others that they also hated it), I just emailed him back and asked him not to refer to us as “ladies” in a professional environment. I’m sure he thinks I’m ridiculous but he apologized and stopped doing it. There’s never a reason to address coworkers by (assumed) gender and this IS a hill I’m willing to die on.

    6. Blue Eagle*

      I liked one of the answers from yesterday that suggested that you determine what you would like to be called. Then, rather than telling people what you don’t want, tell them what you would prefer to be called. Good luck!

    7. jack*

      I said this to a report the other day. He said goodbye to me and another co-worker and said girls. I followed him out and just politely said, “Hey, I really don’t like being called ‘girl'” and he hasn’t done it since. No drama or Big Deal but he’s a good guy so I wasn’t expecting anything.

    8. Queen of Cans and Jars*

      The only time “Hey ladies,” is acceptable is if it’s coming from the Beastie Boys.

    9. Jules the 3rd*

      My framework is
      Public: Start with a joking correction and a smile: “Girls?” (looking around) “Nope, we’re all grownups here.” or “Girls? I do not think that word means what you think it means since we’re all adults…” (Inconceivable!)
      Repeat 2 – 3 times, with variations, still smiling.
      Maybe public, maybe not: Lose smile, but still pleasant. “Girls? No, just co-workers. Try ‘team’ or ‘everyone’ for the group.” (I consciously tried to remove gender references a couple of years ago; it’s a harder habit to break than I realized when I started, and non-gendered suggestions were / are still appreciated).
      Not public: Earnest discussion: “Please stop calling grown women ‘girls’, that’s unprofessional, and is likely to have some impact if customers / bosses overhear it. The world is changing fast, and you’ll be in a better position if you stay aware of those changes. One tactic that will put you way ahead is if you take gender out of the conversation entirely – use ‘team’, or ‘everyone’; ‘how can I help you [stop]’ instead of ‘How can I help you ladies’.
      Sometimes, framing it as an advantage to them really helps.

      After joking, pleasant comment, earnest conversation, I’m not aware of ways to deal that don’t turn into Big Deal.

      1. Considered Secularist*

        “people”, “team”, “colleagues”, “folks” — all non-gendered. And thanks, I have removed a lot of gendered references in my vocabulary but this is an excellent reminder that I have more work to do.

    11. BottleBlonde*

      I am cisgender but this absolutely drives me nuts. My org is almost 100% female and people are always referring to each other as “ladies,” “girls,” and (my least favorite) “girlies.” Also, “you’re just the girl for the job” is a common phrase when assigning people projects. I would feel weird saying something because I’m the youngest on the team and the only one who seems at all bothered by it, but I wish I could make it stop!

      1. LadyGrey*

        If you’re the youngest in the office, you might be able to use that to stop it- maybe try asking them to stop because you feel like it’s pointing out you’re the youngest there?

    12. Elaine*

      The problem with “ladies” at work is that ladies is a social term. That makes it unsuitable for a professional environment. “Girls” when applied to adults is just gross, in my opinion.

    13. n*

      I think it’s okay to be direct about it (but, I’m a pretty direct person, in general).

      I think just asking, “Could you not refer to me as a girl? I’m an adult,” can work. Decent people will respect the request.

      Jerks will try to push back, so you may have to constantly correct them if they continue to do it. In my experience, calling them out in public (like during a meeting where the boss is present) can embarrass them enough to make them stop, if only out of fear of looking bad.

    14. a good mouse*

      This is one of my pet peeves.

      For men, boy is someone 14 and under, guy is anyone up to a little beyond your age, and man is anyone like +10.

      For women, there’s no middle word. I also use guys as gender neutral, but it isn’t natural, and women feels too formal sometimes. I make myself say it though, I think we just need to hear it more.

  29. JanetM*

    Thoughts on what I think will be a harmless joke at work?

    Background: Several weeks ago, one of my coworkers bounced into my cube, announced, “HI! I’m the worst thing that’s going to happen to you all day!” and bounced out. To be clear, I was more amused than anything else (I’d say 85% amused, 10% confused, and 5% mildly startled); I wasn’t, and am not, upset or distressed in any way. However, I do think it only fair that I return the oddity.

    What I’m thinking of: Getting a bag of those flat-sided glass discs that you put in aquariums or vases, and leaving one or two on his desk at more or less random intervals when he’s not there. Nothing harmful, nothing destructive, nothing that’s really going to get in his way (I’m not interested in, for example, wrapping his entire office in foil or filling his desk drawers with packing peanuts). Just something to puzzle him.

    1. Canonical23*

      If you have a good relationship with him, I think it would be funny! (provided that if he demonstrates frustration or concern at any point in the magically appearing discs, you tell him what’s happening, rather than leaving him in the dark.)

    2. Shark Whisperer*

      If you are certain that he would be amused, I would go for it. I worked in an office once where we had a culture of very innocuous pranks (and if you vocalized that you didn’t like pranks, you 100% did not have pranks pulled on you). I started slowly adding weird little mermaid toys one by one to my coworker’s desk. She had a lot of knick knacks so she didn’t notice immediately. It was great! She was confused but delighted. She ended up keeping all the mermaids.

    3. Drax*

      This is an excellent prank. But if it starts making him a little squirrelly, then stop.

      I would say the finale should be a little fish bowl with some beads in it and a small plastic fish.

      2. Drax*

        rethinking this, it should only have like 2 or 3 beads in it, so there’s a place for all the beads you’ve been leaving over the course of a few weeks.

    4. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      Like squished marbles?

      I have to admit I don’t get it.

      I think if you’re going for odd… how about getting a bunch of random rubber ducks… Start with one… then the next day another…and another until he has a duck army. If not ducks, maybe some other random small toy that you can buy in bulk.

      2. No Tribble At All*

        My only concern is the disks could break, leaving shattered glass everywhere? Is the goal to slowly move his stuff, and that’s why you want (clear) glass?

        1. JanetM*

          No, no intent to move his stuff at all — he’s in a different cube, and his space is his space.

          But I’ll think about something other than glass.

      3. Drax*

        those things do not break if they’re what I’m thinking of (google aquarium beads)

        and this seems like the type of prank you aren’t supposed to get, which is the prank. It’s meant to confuse.

        But I am into the ducks. I’d be tempted to just hide them everywhere, one more a day. Sometimes 2 to keep them on their toes.

      4. Joielle*

        I don’t get it either. I feel like the coworker was just saying something odd, which isn’t really a “prank,” per se? So doing a prank in return is confusing… but this sounds harmless at least!

      5. ElspethGC*

        If anyone here hasn’t seen the rubber duck video from James Veich, please do yourselves all a huge favour and go watch it. That is how you do duck pranks successfully.

      7. Environmental Compliance*

        I may have once put nearly 50 mini rubber ducks all over my roommate’s stuff over the space of about 3 months in college. The confusion was great. The fact that she immediately assumed that someone was breaking into our room and leaving them rather than blaming the person that lived in there with her (me)….very entertaining.

        I had those randomly taped to a ceiling tile, under sinks, in shoes, etc. I think the whole bag of them cost me like $5 too. Kept us mildly sane through writing multiple theses, as then we just started trading ducks back and forth.

    6. Nervous Accountant*

      Last year I would get those kinder eggs with the toys in them and leave the toy on my coworkers desk. He couldn’t figure out who left them until someone finally told him it was me. Slowly a little army of small plastic toys was on his desk.
      We had a good laugh about it.
      This guy also had his entire desk covered in gift wrapping paper and drawer filled with those tab thinggys from soda cans while he was away on vacation. For xmas, someone once bought him a gag gift of slippers.

      This s really highly dependeont on your relationship with the person. and the people involved too. While I can totally joke around w/ my manager I wouldn’t play a joke on him in the office just cz it might make him look bad. but that’s me.

    7. ..Kat..*

      Have you considered what you will do if he escalates? Sometimes these things can get way out of hand.

    4. ChemMoose*

      This sounds like my typical Friday! Thankfully the meeting gods are on hiatus here and 3 hours were cancelled today! Only 3 hours for me!

      1. yams*

        Darn, how do you live like this?!
        My first three hour morphed into a four hour meeting and bumped into the second one. I will survive on vending machine snacks!

  31. Nervous Accountant*

    In other news….

    Kevin had another tantrum last night, lol. He is so ridiculous that now instead of getting mad I just go straight to laughing about it.

    He also did something else, which wasn’t that big of a deal, given everything else, but I had thoughts. Lol

    Intern comes by and says “are you busy?”
    “Yes”
    Still stands there and goes ahead and asks the question lol.
    Same intern, second day. just stands there for god knows how long until I finally notice him and I get startled.

    Finally, my very straightlaced boss broke and made a joke in our group chat that could be considered a dirty joke but we’re scratching our heads trying to figure this out.

    More happened with Kevin, but on that later….

      1. Nervous Accountant*

        Kevin is someone who reports to me on my team. He started in August and was meh but we gave him a shot b/c HR siad he had good references (which since then turned out to be inaccurate). Since then he’s been really rude and disrespectful to me, my manager, other peers, departments, clients etc. We finally started the process of letting him go.

        https://www.askamanager.org/2019/02/open-thread-february-1-2-2019.html#comment-2328411
        https://www.askamanager.org/2019/01/open-thread-january-4-5-2019.html#comment-2289668
        https://www.askamanager.org/2018/11/open-thread-november-2-3-2018.html#comment-2213056
        https://www.askamanager.org/2018/10/open-thread-october-26-27-2018.html#comment-2202314

        1. CheeseNurse*

          Thanks! Kevin sounds frustrating.
          (I haven’t been here for months, and I often can’t read all of the posts in the Friday threads, let alone remember everything that was said :) )

        2. soupmonger*

          You know, if I reported to someone at work and I found out that my supervisor had been snarking about me every week for ages on an online site, I’d feel pretty wretched about it. Do you really think you’re being fair by carrying on the way you do? Because I think it’s pretty unprofessional.

          1. Kevin*

            This! While I understand your frustration, spilling all these details on someone you manage seems unkind and inappropriate, especially on a website dedicated to empathetic and ethical management.

          2. SavannahMiranda*

            Meh. People shouldn’t be wretched. “If people wanted you to write warmly about them, they should have behaved better.” Anne Lamott.

            You assume that Kevin is someone like you with compunction, conscience, and self-awareness, who would feel mortified at recognizing themselves. Many people are not wired that way. And it would be a compliment to Kevin to assume he has the capacity to recognize himself in Accountant’s threads.

            More importantly, Accountant is not trolling up pointless quibbles, they are dealing with substantive (if hilarious or galling) managing issues. Accountant is not talking about wearing Hawaiian shirts on Friday or being a general goober. But disrespect, disregard, carelessness, and rudeness to clients. The issues Accountant is dealing with are meaningful for the content of this website.

            Finally, Accountant is anonymizing their workplace, the work performed, and people’s names. In addition, they take potshots at themselves and are honest about their own growth throughout their posts. This is not a self-aggrandizing set of stories by installment.

            1. soupmonger*

              You’re justifying someone creating an ongoing series of ‘stories’ which describe someone they manage. If it was a one-off rant, fine. This isn’t. This is storytelling on a weekly basis and it’s a demeaning way to treat someone you have authority over.

      3. Nervous Accountant*

        My post is in moderation b/c I posted links, but he is a person who reports to me on my team. He has been very rude and disrespectful to clients, coworkers, myself, even my boss.

        Ok so here’s the latest.

        He had a tantrum last night, and my boss gave him one final warning. One more outburst (to clients or us) and he’s gone. I wasn’t in this meeting but apparently instead of a 5 minute quick convo, it was 30 minutes. Teh guy apparently refuses to quit b/c he LIKES IT HERE FOR SOME REASON? And kept bringing up how me and ohters are setting him up for failure.

        SMH

        2. Even Steven*

          “One final warning’ sounds promising! I hope that your boss really means it, and that you are soon freed from living in The Chronicles of Kevin. Kevin’s gotta go! Keep us posted. I have been cheering for you for months!

  32. Punk Ass Book Jockey*

    I have an interview on Monday for a municipal department head position. This particular municipality has been in the news frequently because its school district is in a horrible financial situation–so bad that the state opened a grand jury investigation because it’s been so mismanaged. On top of that, the municipality had to raise taxes this year to cover a $1.4 million deficit.

    So, my concern with the position I’m interviewing for is whether the department’s funding will remain stable. Is it too soon to ask if the department’s budget will or could be affected by these financial woes? This is a first-round, pretty casual interview. The municipal manager didn’t even call it an interview when we scheduled. He just asked me to come over and “talk” about the position.

    Right now the department’s budget is a healthy number compared to others in the county and region. That’s one of the reasons why I applied for the job, and a significant budget reduction would make me reconsider accepting the position, if offered.

    1. fposte*

      I think that’s a reasonable time, actually. I wouldn’t go with “Will the budget be affected” but “What impact do you anticipate?” That opens up discussions about things like retention and hiring generally and not just through the budgetary lens, and you can do a budget question as a followup if they say “No, no impact at all!” (If you’re au fait with how the municipality handles its budgets, you might be able to ask about the nature of the department’s protections and explore it on their own. If they get to keep their budget only as long as Fergus is on the city council, what happens when Fergus gets indicted?)

    2. Kittymommy*

      See if their budget calendar is absurdness yet. Our FY begins in October so we are already working on budgets now. Depending on where to are at you may be able to find this online in meeting minutes (we approve our budget calendars in December or January). Also find out how the municipality budget and the school district budget interact: dues the municipality fund them, is it pulled out of property taxes, or are they cunningly seperate?
      Where in at the schools are fund seperate than us. The other county agencies come through or budget, but schools are completely seperate funds/taxes.
      Also see what their five year plans are if you can. Again, while I’m working on our budget for the upcoming year now, we still project out for five years.

        1. Punk Ass Book Jockey*

          Thank you, this was very helpful! And, I’m in Pennsylvania where local government absurdness is the norm, so I didn’t even realize that was a typo :)

      2. Not So NewReader*

        Great point. Here the school budget and the town budget are two different animals unrelated to each other. And that is because of the funding stream. There is a school tax and a separate town tax.

        The town and school may have some mutual concerns such as snow removal, water, sewer, etc. And they do have to work together on some of these specific things.

    3. ..Kat..*

      If you accept an offer, keep in mind that with crap finances, you may never get a raise. I.e., don’t accept a low salary to deal with a high level of dysfunction and then expect it to improve later.

  33. PX*

    Conducting my leisurely job search ala the LW who didnt have much to do at their job, and I had my first interview today! Was a bit of a pain to get to location-wise, and had to be creative about flexing my time to not have to take a day off for this.

    Think it went okay but have some serious qualms about the salary range stated, and whether long term it would be a good move now that I’ve gotten a better sense for the role. Also dont think I have quite the technical skills they want.

    The hiring manager seems decent though. However, the other team member who was also in the interview referred to the (quite large) company as ‘like a family’ several times and in my head I was just like… Oh darling, that is not the compliment you think it is! Which did emphasize some other aspects of the culture that I’m just not sure about.

    Lots to ponder on if I do get an offer anyway!

    1. Garland not Andrews*

      People don’t seem to realize that “like a family” has two sides. We love like a family . . . but . . . we also fight like a family!

      1. PX*

        Oh yeah. The company tries to brand itself as being quite young and fun. And this particular person was on the younger side so probably enjoys that aspect of informality that appears to be present. Me? I’m a bit like – I don’t know if I want to be that friendly with my coworkers! I like to maintain separation! I don’t want you to be my family!

        1. Decima Dewey*

          Or the families in Compton-Burnett novels, where uncles cuckold nephews, sons cuckold fathers, sweet ladies are convinced their entire family despises them, inconvenient infants are left in rooms with faulty gas jets, and wills leaving the estate to someone else get hidden or thrown into the fire…

        2. LittleMissCrankyPants*

          The Lannisters? The Donners? The Sopranos? Ya gotta be careful what kinda family yer joinin!

  34. Funny Cide*

    For those who gave me input on a potential relocation and subsequent commute, which I posted about a month ago, I thought I’d provide an update. We’re not moving! Partner doesn’t mind his hour & change commute, at least for now. However, he hates the new job and is already looking for something else. So we’ll see what the future holds… anyway, thanks for all the advice!

  35. ThatGirl*

    Last week or the week before I posted about having an overdue talk with my boss about how I’d slipped into a different role than I’d been hired for, was unhappy about that, etc. and it went well. Feeling like things are on the right track to get back to what I want to be doing and was hired to be doing.

    On Tuesday I had a surprise performance review – I knew they were coming but it was scheduled very last minute. I had an awesome review, glowing, manager realized they can’t live without me, and I got a raise above what the HR guidelines called for. Yay!

    One thing I’m now struggling with a little – she wants me to sort of sideways-manage my two teammates and one of them is not quite up to par. I have to figure out ways to praise and develop a good relationship with her so that my not-as-positive feedback lands well.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      Yeah, she needs to tell Teammate to check in with you. I would say something like, “Boss, I really have no ground for telling Sue what to do. I really need you to tell Sue that her work needs beefing up and she will need to be checking in with me.”

      If your boss refuses to do this for you, then say, “In fairness to Sue, she may reject my offers of help because she does not realize I am following your instructions and you have decided that she needs to improve. If she does not improve, in spite of my efforts, I am not sure we are being fair with her.”

  36. TotesMaGoats*

    My sister posted a screen shot of an email signature file this morning. The email was closed with:

    Most resentfully,

    It was a group email.

    Oh the autocorrect shame and misery. At least my sister and everyone got a good laugh out of it. And then you are like, there are emails I want to end that way. The poor person apologized to the large group of people. Happy Friday.

    2. the_scientist*

      HAHAHAHA I love this. I have also definitely wanted to sign off on some emails like this in my time…

      1. fposte*

        Yeah, I think that was at best a mental slip, and possibly a Freudian one. Fortunately, autocorrect doesn’t complain about being blamed.

    6. Art3mis*

      I worked at a company that used Lotus Notes and I could not spell inconvenient for the life of me. Still can’t, just got it wrong typing it here. Anyway, Notes would never suggest the correct spelling, instead offering up incontinent. Luckily, I always caught it, but I got several emails from other people saying “Sorry for the incontinence.” And I always thought, “Yeah, you better be!”

      1. LGC*

        Anyway, Notes would never suggest the correct spelling, instead offering up incontinent.

        …you know, I have so many questions about this, and all of them are directed at Lotus.

    7. Lena Clare*

      This is absolutely HILARIOUS!

      Here’s my autocorrect fail-
      My full name (not Lena, and unusual enough I can’t tell you what it is coz I’m searchable with my first name alone)
      autocorrected to “whatever” at the bottom of an email to my boss AFTER she’d had a conversation about me softening some of my language in written form.
      I was absolutely mortified, I had to go into her office and explain what had happened. She weirdly wasn’t bothered and it made me wonder if she ever believed me.
      I blush to this day.

      1. TotesMaGoats*

        I had a colleague (which is a stretch of that word for this particular person) whose names autocorrected to Hell. I kid you not. I think it was more that my phone knew the soul of this person that it being a mistake.

  37. Sabrina*

    I love my job and feel very lucky that is my biggest complaint… but one of my coworkers is so gross. She is a grown adult woman and is a pretty sophisticated person (ie has manners and hygiene) but we had bagels yesterday and I had to excuse myself because she sat next to me and was eating with her mouth open, talking with her mouth full, and sucking cream cheese off her fingers! I can hear her in her cube smacking away on baby carrots and dip and yup, licking her fingers! How does someone with otherwise good sense and decorum completely miss this part of polite society?

    1. Foreign Octopus*

      Oh god. That’s a huge pet peeve of mind. I lose my appetite when I’m around people who eat like that. I had a housemate who did it once (huge smacking sounds that turned my stomach) but thankfully her boyfriend told her she needed to stop.

    2. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      Table manners are a whole different beast. I’m rather uptight with mine but I’ve ran into people who have gross habits like described. They’ve rarely been raised in a barn, they’re just stunted AF when it comes to unnecessary noises and putting hands in their mouths.

    3. Joielle*

      GROSS. My dad is the absolute WORST offender with those kinds of noises and it’s honestly one of the reasons I can’t visit my parents for more than a day or two. Somehow you can hear the man eating an orange from two rooms down. It’s truly disgusting.

      1. Sammie*

        I had an ex who ate toast using, it seemed like, every single muscle in his jaw. With his mouth closed, he worked on that bit of toasted bread as if he had bit off more than a mere mortal could possibly be expected to chew and the result was these hideous and loud ‘smacking’ noises. I often checked to see if his mouth was still closed because it really sounded as if it wasn’t. In the end, I had to say something (that was hopefully nicer than ‘I think this might be what makes me end this relationship…’). Sometimes I felt bad reminding him so I would just leave the room – as discreetly as I could, but actually, this is what helped him get the message the best!

    4. Clever Name*

      OMG I have a coworker who also eats really grossly. Talks with her mouth full, chews mouth open. Really gross.

    5. Sprechen Sie Talk?*

      I had an old boss who LOVED to use the power play of smacking his lips while eating his (daily) soup and roll – and this was in a very open office – just to annoy people around him. If he REALLY didn’t like the person he was meeting with, he would bring a fruit cup to the meeting and then proceeding to eat the bits of fruit with his hands and then blatantly LICK his hands/fingers for a good two minutes, all while the other person (usually someone senior) would try and make a point. Which he would then shoot down because while he may have appeared insane, he was actually extremely intelligent. Other alternative to Fruit Cup was to just fart in the meeting while the other person was talking.

      I know he can eat normally, I saw him at a dinner hosted by a mutual friend at Christmas and he ate like a civilized human being, I’ve had lunch with him plenty of times with cutlery, gone to his house for dinner parties, gone out to the bar and other restaurants too. Once I figured out what he was doing it never really bothered me much, mostly because I enjoyed seeing if a fruit cup was ever going to appear at certain meetings.

      The guy was/is nuts but if he liked you he would move everything to help you out/protect you. We actually got on really well and in some weird way he was one of the best bosses Ive had. That and I have stories for YEARS on this guy.

  38. revueller*

    So I made the rookiest of mistakes this week.

    Our company sent out an anonymous survey through a third party “to assess the best workplaces in CITY” and encouraged us to fill it out. I answered… way too honestly. With written comments. And identified the department I work with (which consists of ten people).

    I don’t want to go into what I said, but it was (a) truthful and (b) things I would never, ever, ever want my boss to know I said. But other managers have confirmed that our company is paying a fee to see the results of the feedback survey and that the URL used to fill it out includes a unique identifying code. Soooo it’s pretty likely they’ll figure out authorship. What’s worse: management is the main source of the problems I identified in feedback, and they have historically responded poorly to any sort of negative feedback. (Think public snarking over negative Glassdoor reviews that most employees privately agree with). I don’t think they’ve fired anyone for telling the company off, but several people have definitely resigned after vehemently disagreeing with the company’s direction.

    If (when) they figure out I’m the author of Mean Feedback Response, what should I do?

    If I own it and apologize for it (“It was an off-day for me and I took out my frustrations in the least constructive way possible. My tone was rude, and I apologize.”), I may lose my job for not being a team player. I need this job. I genuinely do want this job. There are just easily fixable things that I get frustrated about.

    I could also lie and say I didn’t write it. My concerns aren’t that unique in my team, thankfully. But I don’t know if this would come out worse if they figure out the unique URL ID came from my account.

    Do I just start looking for a new job now? Any advice would be appreciated.

    1. StressedButOkay*

      A lot of companies pay to see the results of an anonymous survey and, generally speaking, what that third party company does is compile the data and strip it of anything like the unique ID code. I’d honestly be shocked if a company that does this as a service, that was touted as anonymous, would supply the ID code along with a way to identify who that code was assigned to.

      I mean, I’ve seen weirder things and could be wrong!

        1. Quackeen*

          Yes, I managed the employee surveys for 6 years in a previous job, and we worked with 2 different 3rd party vendors over those 6 years. Neither of them would ever have even considered giving out the identifying code that was associated with any responses.

          I know it’s very common for people to claim that the surveys are not anonymous at all, but I just don’t have that experience when working with reputable companies.

          Now, if they read any written narrative you gave and try to figure it out (which I have seen bad managers do), that’s a different story and a situation in which denying that those are your comments are your best strategy. In fact, I would both deny it and add, “I thought the surveys were anonymous, though. Why do you ask?” Make the asker feel a little bit of shame in trying to go around the process.

    2. Coffee Bean*

      If it does come back to bite you – which it may not, if the survey is supposed to be anonymous they should respect that. But if it does, do not lie. I would stick with your script, it is good. Apologize you didn’t air your concerns in a constructive way, and that you will work towards being more professional and bringing concerns and solutions to your boss in the future.

      1. revueller*

        thank you, i appreciate that. i definitely have taken this from a mishmash of alison’s replies to people, but fingers crossed that i won’t have to use it!

        1. Coffee Bean*

          haha I do the same. Everything I say at work is just a mash-up of different things Alison recommends.

          Best of luck! Fingers crossed you don’t have to use any script.

      2. ..Kat..*

        Instead of admitting it was me (and TBH, if other people complained as well, they could be asking you about someone else’s comments), I would ask what they are going to do to address the concerns that they received from an anonymous survey. Sort of a “I can see someone writing that. What is management going to do to improve on this. Wait, how do you know the results of an anonymous survey?” I don’t see anything good coming from admitting what you wrote. If this is their response to an anonymous survey (as opposed to “what can we do to fix problems?”), I do not expect them to deal well with further honesty.

        Also, can you call the survey company and ask them how they release the results of an anonymous survey to an employer? Can you complain anonymously on the survey company’s web site? Or a yelp review of the company?

        I am really irked that this was presented as anonymous when it actually is not. But, not surprised based on my experience.

        Does not hurt to update your resume and apply for new jobs. If nothing else, if you are worried about being let go, you will have a head start on looking for a new job. You might even find something better.

    3. HM*

      I conduct these surveys for clients as a third party and we remove identifying information so that respondents can’t be identified. If you included really identifying info they may be able to figure it out, but usually the third party does its best to maintain the anonymity of the respondents. I wouldn’t worry too much about it, also you are likely not the only person who provided similar responses. Typically if there are these type of internal issues, many people will indicate that.

      1. revueller*

        the people most dissatisfied with the company said they did not leave written responses because they were afraid of being identified, so i can only hope that more people did what i did.

        but it’s good to know that the companies in charge of the survey care about my anonymity, even if my managers do not!

    4. Kittymommy*

      We do these surveys about once a year or so and the only time I’ve seen identifying stuff left on is when people respond “this is Jerry, call me if you want more info. 123-4567”.

        1. valentine*

          If you have to mention things you wrote in the survey, use different wording. Maybe you have stock phrases or constructions. Try to avoid them for a while.

    5. JudyInDisguise*

      These third party survey companies get paid to do what they do, so don’t worry. Your anonymity is safe or they’d be out of the “anonymous” survey biz! Besides, it doesn’t sound like you’re the only employee having a negative experience and the overall rating/result is going to be calculated from all of the responses. Your company is only going to receive those results – not who-said-what.

    6. Data Person*

      I agree with others that, if they stated it is anonymous, it should be stripped of your identifying data before it goes to the company. However, to deal with the off-chance that this survey company is not fully ethical about data (and/or they didn’t actually promise anonymity, it was just assumed), I would think about contacting the survey company to inquire. Find the invite email, was their some kind of contact email?

      You could say that you’ve become aware that the results of survey X will be reported back to the sponsoring companies, and you wanted to re-confirm that the data shared back will be anonymous (i.e., no names or identifying information attached). If they can’t assure you of that, you could try asking if you could have your response removed or have the opportunity to re-take the survey (it’s usually possible in advanced systems) because they did not inform you that your response would be seen by your employer prior to you consenting to take the survey. Use that informed consent language. This study isn’t likely under an IRB to protect subjects’ rights, but let’s assume the company’s staff has had research ethics training, so this language should raise flags to be responsive to you because it’s not great to be associated with unethical research practices.

      1. revueller*

        Thank you for suggesting these options! I didn’t even think of reaching out to the company and ask for a retraction. I’m tempted to take my chances. But I’ll definitely consider it if it sounds like I’d literally be the ONLY one dumb enough to fill out the written responses.

    7. anon24*

      Right before my husband started very toxic job the employees were asked to fill out an anonymous third party survey for a best places to work competition. They were assured that the company wouldn’t see any of their answers. Not only did the company get the answers, there was no anonymity about them. In his first few weeks working there he got to see all the employees individually pulled into the office and yelled at for the specific comments they made. No one was fired though and I think it all blew over in a few weeks after management found something new to complain about.

      1. revueller*

        Yikes! I’m glad no one was fired, but that’s terrifying! My office hasn’t gotten to quite that level of toxicity yet, as far as I know. Hope your husband has found a better place to work since!

    8. I'm A Little Teapot*

      Well, if there’s that many issues anyway, you might want to be looking for a new job in general. Not just because of this!

      1. Deb Morgan*

        This. I did the same thing two jobs ago (really harshly complained to my boss, when I absolutely should have moderated my tone and language), and it made me realize that I needed to get gone.

      2. revueller*

        So this is the classic AAM response, but I probably am overstating how bad it is in my office. I’m really happy with my job compared to where I’ve been. I have good benefits, stable hours, flexible vacation, and normal acting coworkers. I do what I love for a living and I’m no longer customer-facing, which has been an extremely important and stressful part of my prior jobs. *cue happy tap dance*

        The problems are mostly with the inflexibility of management. The company as a whole has officially grown beyond its startup label in terms of its age, size, and internal bureaucracy, and it’s definitely starting to show. My team is less than a year old so that startup agility would be really helpful to us while we figure out the best way to do our jobs. But the company no longer really has that culture. Reasonable changes we as a team request are side-stepped or ignored. We’re told we have to meet certain KPIs before we’re really taken seriously. We get paid substantially less than our coworkers who are nominally our equals, and we spend our company-wide meeting apologizing for not meeting what is a clearly ridiculous standard for our success, given that we have never perfectly met it. The workplace is not 100% toxic, but it’s disheartening to our team to run into these barriers regularly.

        That’s the reasonable version of what I wrote in my review. XD I want to stay, but my regular workday could be a lot easier if we had more reactive managers and more recognition for our work. I still have hope that things might get better. I”m just hoping that my feedback was taken as that (feedback) rather than another internal attack from a dissatisfied employee.

    9. Arjay*

      I think our surveys are described as confidential, but not anonymous. The way it was explained to us is that comments that required investigation may have the respondent identified. So if you said you were being sexually harassed or if you made a violent threat, your identifying information would be shared. For general “normal” feedback, it would not.

      1. Not Me*

        While I agree with others that the survey company removes identifying information (like URL ID) they *do not* remove the information you wrote in the free form text box that can be used to identify you.

        I’ve worked with employee surveys for 10+ years and it is incredibly easy to figure out who wrote what by the info they give, writing style, etc. Be prepared to respond if someone in your organization does realize it’s you and wants to talk about what you wrote. Your script is good, don’t pretend it wasn’t you though.

        1. revueller*

          Eep. *gulp*

          Thank you for your honesty. Hoping it doesn’t come to that. I’ve only worked here a few months, and I’d rather wait out a full year before finding a new position.

    10. Not So NewReader*

      Maybe you can google the survey company and find out their rep online?

      It’s a tight spot right now, I get it. In the past, I have said, “I am sorry for the WAY I handled [or said] what I did but I am not able to change my opinion that I wrote/told. I could have delivered the same message in a different manner however.”

      People are amazing. Sometimes when we show a willingness to stand by what we said with some limited regrets they tend to back down. Especially in a face-to-face conversation. I have had a few heart pounding conversations. The ending was never as bad as I thought it would be. Part of it is the capital we build as employees. There are other factors, too.

      1. revueller*

        Yeah, I’m realizing now that I’d rather have that conversation in a more professional way and setting. I stand by the general gist of what I said, but the tone may (a) make my managers likely to take it seriously and (b) make my job harder going forward, even if I don’t get directly called out and/or penalized.

        Thank you for your advice though! I really appreciate it.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          My wise friend used to say, when we speak up we should expect fallout. What I liked about this is I could weigh out the value of the Thing before I said it. I probably would have spoken up in your setting. There are times when something is big enough or recurs often enough that it’s worth the battle. Just be on your toes, do your work, be polite etc. The storm will pass. Next week someone will step in a bigger pile and your story will be old news.

  39. verbal clumsiness*

    Hello. I could use some advice. I can’t stop kicking myself because I’m old enough to know better, I’ve been burned by this before, and still it has happened again. A work friendship is over. It’s nothing either one of us did, it was definitely more a grow apart thing. The closeness started to fade when I began trying to work out at lunch. For two years everything was still friendly and warm when we did connect.
    Then it seems like all of sudden a wave of animosity crashed down on me. It feels out of the blue, and I honestly believe that it’s not from a Thing That Happened. But for me, I am not very quick on my feet, and I don’t always feel confident in my ability stand up for myself. All of my interactions with her make me feel awkward and weird at the moment, and later, as I have thought about it for a while, I realize she was actually really mean, and then I feel like a fool for just taking it.
    I don’t want to have it out, or get into a huge conversation or whatever… I just want to be professional and cordial going forward. But if any of you kind people have some words or phrases I could use in those times when it’s weird, but my brain hasn’t fully comprehended why it was weird, it would be very appreciated. Just some nuggets I can store in my brain and use when I have to interact with her.
    Sorry this got so long, thanks for letting me vent here. It helps.

    1. revueller*

      I’ve found myself using Alison’s phraseology for dealing with online bullies of all things.

      “What a weird thing to say,” is one that I’ve adopted for things that are less obvious (but still rude) slights that she might do. “It’s weird that you think that’s appropriate to say,” is another.

      It’s easy to come up with comebacks before and after the moment they’re needed. I’d default to being coolly polite myself. That way, you don’t have to invest time in being friendly to her and no one can fault you for causing a scene at work.

      Hope this helps and best of luck!

      1. ..Kat..*

        Also,

        “Wow”
        “What do you mean by that?”
        “That sounds very hostile.”

        All followed by silence.

        You don’t have to have something witty to say. You just want to call it out as bad behaviour/words.

    2. fposte*

      It sounds like you’re feeling this as a pretty heavy weight–I’m sorry.

      Can you think about what you’re trying to achieve here?You’re never a fool for not rising to the bait of somebody being mean; you in fact did an excellent job of ignoring it. I would advise you to largely continue to do so. A puzzled “…okay. Anyway” can be a bridge to getting back to work discussions if somebody’s gone off on a deliberately personal direction. “Huh. You don’t sound very happy” can also be a possibility if you’re feeling really together and it’s true. If you can walk away, that’s an option; if you can’t, you can say, “I’d really like to focus on work.”

      1. Not So NewReader*

        So much this.
        It’s her embarrassment to wear, not yours. Please don’t look around for reasons to be embarrassed. You have done nothing wrong here.

        “I am sorry to hear that.”
        “Oh, that’s too bad.”
        “Hope things go better soon.”

        “Oh, gosh, look at the time, I gotta run.”
        “Whoops, I have a call, talk to you later!”

        For your own peace of mind, remind yourself that you want to be surrounded by people who sincerely like you. If she does not sincerely like you, that is okay. Being mean is not okay therefore she is not an actual friend to you. You don’t need her.

        It took me a while to decide that I just wanted people around me who were kind most of the time. I want people in my life who are considerate of others. If you can set similar goals for yourself you may find some assurance there also.

    3. Gumby*

      Something that you can store in your brain and not necessarily use, but that I found helps me let go when a friendship… isn’t anymore is “friendships have a lifespan” (a variation on the whole reason/season/lifetime thing that I picked up from Sars of tomatonation fame). I used to have the unreaslistic idea that once you were friends with someone you were obligated to keep trying to be friends on some level. So if something like that is holding you back or making you give her more chances than you should – give yourself permission to not be friends any longer. It sounds like you have, but I want to reinforce the idea. It’s not a fault or a weakness to give up the friendship.

    4. Lilysparrow*

      “Huh. I’m not sure how to take that.” (Or “I’m not sure how to respond to that.”

      “What are you hoping will happen here?”

      “Uh, is everything okay? It seems like something’s bothering you.”

  40. Not Maeby But Surely*

    So, I have been having problems getting things done at work. A recent post here made suggestions for dealing with that sort of thing, and making lists was a solution that spoke to me. I’ve been using lists this week and it has made a world of difference! I used to always make lists, jot down ideas for later, etc., years ago when I first started this job. I’m not sure why I ever stopped, but I am absolutely making it a thing again! It is so helpful to refer to and even more satisfying to cross things off the list when I complete them. I can look back through this week and see actual accomplishments again. Woo-hoo!

    1. Folkie*

      Sometimes I put a thing I’ve already done on my list, just so I can cross it off. On days when you’re feeling super-unproductive, putting very easy things that you do every day on your list is good, too. Then you can look back at all the things you did with pride!

      make list = tiny mission accomplished

    2. TootsNYC*

      I’m not sure why I ever stopped,

      On a recent comment thread, someone said they have ADHD and will switch from one coping strategy to another as the first wears out.

      That resonated so hard with me! And the idea that it’s OK to switch tactics was really encouraging.

  41. curious*

    I have a few very trustworthy teenagers that help out with a few things at home here and there- walk the dog if we have to work late, babysit once a month, collect the mail or water the plants when we’re on vacation etc. This might seem silly to ask…. How do you present the idea that if they do something extra, you’ll pay more money. I don’t want the teenager to feel obligated when they were hired for something totally different. For instant when they babysit, if you clean the dishes in the sink or take the dog out to do it’s business, we’ll pay extra. These are little things that overall help us a lot, but are little things we can manage on our own. Do we wait and see if they take the initiative on their own; or do we have a conversation hey if you want to earn a few extra dollars when bringing in the mail, can you do this for us?

    1. CTT*

      For things like taking the dog out, since it is something that the dog needs to do, I would frame it as “Please also take the dog out X number of times while you’re babysitting; of course we’ll pay you extra.”

      For things like dishes, getting the mail, etc.; when I was a babysitter, I would do that if I had time but couldn’t always get to it (depending on number of kids, how long I was there, if I was there after kids had gone to bed, etc.). I think you’re right not to want them to feel obligated to do something extra. Could you maybe recognize it quarterly? Either pay them extra in recognition of the past work, or get them a Starbucks/wherever they like to go giftcard as a thank you. It’s recognizing the work without building in an expectation that they must always do it.

      1. curious*

        We always recognize when something extra is done plus we always recognize our sitters on special occasions – Christmas, birthdays, prom, school trip. We’ve been told by our “helpers” one of the reasons they are so loyal to us is because we are fair and go above & beyond with compensation. They’ve earned it. I like your phrasing of “of course we’ll pay your extra”. I have one sitter who doesn’t want to deal with dogs (fair enough), but another who will make a babysitting activity of taking a walk and bring the dog. I feel that second sitter deserves a little extra.

      2. The Cosmic Avenger*

        Yeah, our petsitters have always taken in the mail and moved the garbage and recycling cans to the curb and back when applicable as part of their job. For smaller tasks, I would just give them a bonus or gift card for “going the extra mile” once a year, or even smaller ones every month or two. For tasks you normally pay for separately, I’d gently insist on paying them, because they shouldn’t devalue their work.

        1. curious*

          Usually what we do is when we pay them, we will include extra money and tell them they did more than we were expecting, we pay for doing double duty, here is your total pay. Our sitters do not usually carry change around with them, so it almost “forces” them to be compensated for two separate tasks.

    2. TooTiredToThink*

      They are teenagers and most teenagers want money. You said they are also responsible. But they are also teenagers. For most of them you’d need to be really explicit and say – hey we are paying you x for this job but if you do job y as well you can earn more money.

      Quite frankly; as not a teenager – if I was being paid to walk the dog – I would not then put away the dishes unless we had previously agreed that I was to do light house keeping chores. Even if I saw it as something that needed to be done; I wouldn’t do it.

      1. curious*

        I totally agree. Please know we are not trying to take advantage of anyone. I should clarify that something like putting the dishes away, is more that when babysitting they had a snack… instead of leaving the plate in the sink, please put it in the dishwasher or rinse it off. I guess I have to be pretty clear with how we present it.

        1. TooTiredToThink*

          Oh! Yes! A babysitter should always clean up after themselves. I thought you were talking about them putting your dishes away (like after they dried). But yeah; that’s just common decency in any work place and should be expected.

      2. BottleBlonde*

        Yes, I was frequent babysitter as a teen, and I’d say pretty responsible. It wouldn’t have occurred to me to do any housework other than cleaning up after whatever I was doing with the kids. Probably because my mom was so particular about cleaning, if a babysitter ever did any housekeeping at our house she probably would have considered it kind but a nuisance!

        1. valentine*

          They may be afraid of getting in trouble for doing things you’ve not asked for. Send them an email listing bonus tasks and their pay rate and invite them to suggest more. Be explicit about how and what they’re allowed to do and what you want them to do.

    3. BugSwallowersAnonymous*

      I think you can just ask! I would have loved any opportunity to make a few extra bucks as a teenager. I think you just have to be prepared that they might say no.

      1. curious*

        We’re fine with whatever they decide. We want their main focus to be what we’re hiring them for. It’s more for example, while babysitting if you want to take the dog out of the crate he’s been in for the past few hours you can. If you do take him out, he is crate trained hence might have an accident outside the crate having been cooped up, but my child and the dog love to play together. I’m fine if they say no, the teenager was hired to babysit, not dog sit.

    4. Canonical23*

      Just frame it as “X is the base rate. If you have time to do [dishes, sweeping, etc] we’ll pay Y instead, but don’t feel obligated if things are busy.”

      2. Où est la bibliothèque?*

        I would establish their interest in the additional work upfront. “Do you think you’d be interested in also doing [X]? We would change your pay to [$X]. I wouldn’t have them decide whether or not to do the additional work while they’re doing the main job.

        1. curious*

          Agree. We also try to make it their choice. For example if you are watering the plants, if you want to let the dog out to stretch his legs that’s fine but please clean up after him if there is an accident. If you want to leave him in the crate, where he is crate trained, we have a relative coming over in an hour to let him out. It’s your choice how you want the afternoon to go. We try to present it as all angles are covered.

    5. Overeducated*

      I’d just ask them outright. When you’re working in someone’s home people have different ideas of what’s ok – for example, when I babysat as a teenager, some people liked having dishes in the sink and other such minor cleaning done, and some people didn’t because they wanted 100% focus on their kids and thought clean up took away from that. (I learned that the hard way by taking initiative.) It has to be helpful to set those expectations clearly instead of hoping teenagers will guess correctly.

      1. curious*

        Agreed. We’ve always told the teenagers we’re hiring you for x but do whatever you feel comfortable with. We just never really said we’d pay extra (reading that, it sounds unprofessional). We’ve always compensated. I guess I just don’t want anyone to think we are asking for something for free but don’t want them to feel obligated either.

  42. Ms. Meow*

    TL;DR: Is there any reasonable way to get more/different people to volunteer for events and committees?

    My work site has ~500 employees in varying roles. We have long running committees on site (events, new employees, etc) and smaller one-off committees for special events. I got started on this path when I was volun-told to help with an event committee, but I really enjoyed it and now I’m on one long standing committee and help out with several of the one-off committees throughout the year.

    The thing is that it tends to be the same roughly 20 people who are on all the committees. I would love to have new blood, and we’ve had a lot of new hires and transfers so there are plenty of people who may want to help. What is the best way to go about this? Recruitment meetings? Ask functional managers to bring it up during group meetings? Asking the new employee committee to give a list of groups/events/activities that they can join? Any other suggestions?

    1. CBH*

      I’d definitely have as many of the commitments that can be done during the day, done then. I find that people don’t mind the 1-2 times a year helping outside of their normal business hours, but expecting organizational meeting upon meeting done on their own time really had a negative affect. Can you company make it a requirement? All employees must volunteer for one event a year or so many hours per year? Also how receptive are managers too these committees? If someone stays late to help at an event, is the manager upset they didn’t stay late for their own department another day? Is there a way to offer an incentive to join? Maybe a signup list on an internal signup board? Good luck!

      1. Ms. Meow*

        Thanks for the suggestions!

        None of the committees meet outside of business hours. The only thing that happens on evenings or weekends are planned happy hours or family activities with lots of notice, advanced sign ups, and voluntary participation. The company definitely won’t make it a requirement, but I was thinking of asking managers to bring it up during 1:1 goal setting meetings that are going on during February. It’s a great development and networking opportunity, so I think that might be my best angle.

      2. CBH*

        Do you have newsletter or company email where you can give specifics… on sunday we are looking for 3 volunteers for 1 hour to do XYZ? People may be nervous that volunteering means for every event and every task.

    2. DolphinFeels*

      I’m interested in feedback on this as I see the same trend where I work (and I’m one of those 20 who is sitting on about 8 committees right now)!

    3. londonedit*

      Argh, I think this is an issue with just about every group/club/etc! We have the same with my running club. Hundreds of members, yet we struggle to fill committee positions every year and it’s always the same 20 people who volunteer to help lead sessions, run with our beginners’ group, or anything else we need occasional help with. I ended up being on the committee for three years because I’m an ‘Oh for heaven’s sake, I’ll just do it myself if no one else will step up’ sort of person, and I’ve had to consciously step back!

      We’ve tried having ‘volunteer drives’ as part of our monthly social night – encouraging people to chat to existing volunteers and committee members about what different roles involve (as a lot of people are worried about getting roped into something that will take up a ton of time) and generally trying to get people a bit more enthused about volunteering. We also have to remind people on a regular basis that the club is staffed entirely by volunteers, as sometimes people don’t actually realise that and have extremely high expectations.

      I think having a list of things that people can sign up to do is a really good idea – people can get overwhelmed by ‘Hey, sign up to volunteer!’ and seem less so by ‘We’re looking for 5 people to make cakes for after Sunday’s race; please sign up’. We also issue regular reminders about things we need volunteers for – it might seem like you’re always banging on about it but sometimes people do just need that constant reminder so it doesn’t slip into ‘Oh…yeah, I’ll get round to that…’ territory.

      1. Philosophia*

        TL;DR: Whether in the workplace or outside it (although this screed has turned out to be more about volunteering in the world than in the workplace), is your group perennially asking too much of its volunteer pool?

        As one with experience on both sides of the recruiting table, as it were, I endorse several of londonedit’s suggestions. Explaining what different roles involve—and offering, say, a deputy position to start—is a very good way to help people realize that yes, they could fill those shoes, or no, they won’t have the time during the coming year to do the position justice, but check back with them the next time it opens up. It’s also valuable for an organization to be open to splitting a role or reallocating responsibilities. And breaking out specific and time-limited tasks is more productive than demanding ill-defined and open-ended commitments.

        It’s a problem, though, when leaders fail to recognize that they are asking for more than the volunteer pool can provide. Their ambition and enthusiasm can blind them to the reality of the group’s resources—time and money and energy and skill—and the extent of the group’s interest. They become disappointed and even resentful when the response is insufficient to carry out plans they have unilaterally made, and the overly dedicated members of the group who take on too much in an effort to please them eventually burn out.

        So my advice is that before asking whether there’s any reasonable way to get more/different people to volunteer for events and committees, determine whether they care about all those events and the work of all those committees. If so, are there enough people with enough resources to produce all the events and fill all the committees? If not, which events and which committees matter to them most, and who can and will volunteer for them? Do few things thoroughly rather than many things skimpily, and build from there.

    4. AMA Long-time Lurker*

      I appreciate you asking this question! I’ve been voluntold for several committees myself, and it has been a huge turnoff to see the same people organizing these events and resources that everyone else takes advantage of. If this is useful, I’m no longer on these committees for the following reason: I was always told that committee work would reflect well in my performance review – demonstrating competencies like team-work, collaboration, forward-thinking, etc. – but all in all, they turned out to just be a good way to meet people and to be heaped with a lot more administrative responsibility that doesn’t result in raises/promotions. I have put in so much work outside of my core job function (I had the bandwidth) hoping it would reflect well in my reviews, but it really didn’t play a role. So, IMO, the best way to make these committees attractive is to make them have REAL professional development and career advancement opportunities. Don’t make the activities fluffy – let them be real opportunities for project management and interfacing with upper management so the people putting in the work will be rewarded down the road.

    5. Pescadero*

      Make it somehow beneficial to volunteer.

      You’re asking people to do extra work – for what benefit?

    6. writelhd*

      go directly to the newer blood you’d like to recruit and pitch it to them. The personal touch can help.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Yes, this works in rural communities, too. The direct personal invite is effective. The bonus here is you can pick people who seem to have the skill sets the committee needs.

    7. Gumby*

      Ask directly. People might think “that sounds like it might be fun” but not take action to volunteer, but just saying “sure” when directly asked is easy. But, obviously, ask in such a way that no one is pressured.

      Give specifics. Let people know the time commitment and days/times of meeting (or if it’s flexible).

      Let some balls drop. If the monthly social outing looks to be in danger of not happening, more people might find the time to join a planning group. (Also, your current volunteers should get a rest. So if some balls drop and no one picks them up, maybe they didn’t need to be in the air to start with.)

  43. Mbarr*

    Any advice about not getting your hopes up about a job interview? I have an interview on Monday that I’m SUPER excited for, and have multiple referrals for. Now I keep catching myself zoning out at my current job, mentally disengaging, already assuming I’m getting the job. I need to be realistic that there’s a chance I might not get the job… But it’s just so hard to keep getting work assignments and being all, “Nyah, nyah! I’m not going to have to deal with this!”

    1. CastIrony*

      Allison’s free interview guide has tips on that*. I have some of my own:
      1) Imagine your “new job” being the one worse job than your current one (This happened to me once.)
      2) You don’t want that job.*
      3) Start planning on what you will do once you get rejected.
      4) Accept the warmth of temporary hope and use it to be extra productive (easier said than done) and warm at your current job so that they can say you left in good terms if you get the job.
      5) No interview means that you will get the job. You can do everything right, but a better candidate or their favorite one can get the job you hope for so much.
      6) It’s okay to be bitter over a job rejection. However, you still have to be courteous at work.

      I hope this helps a little. I apologize for the tone of this comment. Good luck at your interview!

      Sincerely,
      A Job Search Pessimist in Disguise

    2. writelhd*

      Let it be over the fact that you’re job searching and it’s likely to eventually succeed so you don’t have to deal with this anymore, but not about “this particular” job. Look at it like a distance race, not a sprint, where this is progress and preparing is valuable work you can be doing to move on, but it’s not a guarantee or a sure thing yet, and it’s better to not think of it like it is. Think of it as a productive thing to be doing to help get you out without fixating it as THE ONLY THING that can get you out. Just be excited it’s something that *could*, but if it doesn’t, it’s productive practice for whenever the something that could does actually come, and it will! You just can’t know when at this point in the race.

  44. Diatryma*

    What tips do you have for when you’re new at a job and there’s nothing to do?

    I’ve just started a new job and am being trained on the various tasks. But between the weather and a few unrelated things, we just don’t have work– people left early, but I didn’t have personal time accrued yet, and I wasn’t supposed to do personal things like write this question or read or play Pokémon. For the most part, I ignored that, because a couple hours to myself with one or two people dropping in, sometimes with a quick task, is kind of unbearable… but optics, and I want to be visibly ready to work (while not springing up like a golden retriever every time someone entered in hopes they’d have something for me to do). What else could I have done? I read and reread training materials, but when your job is cataloguing llamas and the haven’t come in yet, there’s not much to do.

    1. merp*

      In this situation I’ve done things like work-related (ish) research. Industry or academic papers about what others are doing in my area, designing fake projects based on the work those people were doing and what would look like at my organization. If there’s any new systems in this job for you (for me, it’s been a data viz software), you could improve on that and do practice projects.

      Hard situation to be in though! Hope you get to be busier soon!

      1. Diatryma*

        Thanks for the ideas– that’s a lot of what I’ve been doing, but I’ve been limited by not having the capacity for practice in our system. It’s real or nothing, basically. My scope widens each week in terms of what I’ve been trained to do, but it’s hard to be trained when there’s nothing to train on.

    2. Admin of Sys*

      Related research, as stated – industry articles and such. But if there’s not much published or relatable specific to your job, then try any sort of ‘better employee’ type training or studying. Read tips on how to be a better presenter, try out a new project management technique, get better at excel or other tools used for the job, write a wish list of the type of employee you want to be and how you think you can get there, etc. Basically, do things that count as making you better at being a good employee, even if they’re not specifically ‘your job is to sort llamas.’ Heck, if there’s any chance being bilingual is useful in your job, language studies work too.

      1. Diatryma*

        Oh, that’s a good plan. It’s also one that justifies me checking this site so often (I try not to, but there really isn’t enough work, and I get really stressed after a certain point.) Thanks!

        1. ..Kat..*

          Do you use any software for your job? Training in that software could be helpful. And anything related: llama foot care, llama lullabyes, famous llama herders, etc.

          1. Diatryma*

            For the first week, I didn’t have access to it fully, and what I do with it is so specialized that there aren’t a lot of useful guides– I needed hands-on practice to really see what I was doing. I did end up on a subreddit related to one aspect of it, so that worked. Thanks!

    3. MonteCristo85*

      Can you just start poking around in what will be your job? Don’t know how to translate into llamas (lol), but when I started my accounting job I just basically spent a few weeks looking at every single account and all the transactions and reports in the system. Just to familiarize myself with the goings on. It really helped once things got going.

      2. Southern Yankee*

        This! In the only job I ever had with nothing much to do for about 3 months, I traced every GL account into the cost statements so that I knew how all the detail information rolled up. It was extremely helpful down the road when I need it and didn’t have to take the time to trace it all. I also took over all the testing of our part of the system (mainframe at the time) and I soon knew a lot about how that worked.

        So, if you can translate accounting into the equivalent in llama, maybe that would work. You said your system is real only, no practice, but there might be a “test” system even if there isn’t a training version. Good Luck!

        1. Diatryma*

          Well, the weather’s getting better, so maybe the llamas will come in from the moors. Only in less ridiculous analogies. *Everyone* has been remarking on how slow it is, and how little work, and how they wish there were more for me to do. Maybe we’ll be swamped next week and I’ll feel great. Thanks!

  45. AnonEmu*

    One week till I move to Australia! Thanks all for your advice re leaving the last job, and re interviewing at this one. Does anyone have tips re culture moving from US to Australia? FWIW I am going to be working at a university and there’s a lot of expats from different countries in the department.

    Very excited for this new journey, and for all the exciting science I will be doing there! Thanks so much to everyone who advised me to leave my old job and helped me find this one.

    1. Foreign Octopus*

      I’m so excited for you!

      No advice except to have a great time and don’t be freaked out by a Golden Gaytime (Tagline: it’s hard to have a gaytime on your own). They’re a type of ice cream but I didn’t know that when I was offered one by someone asking “fancy a gaytime, mate?”. So maybe actually Google Australian food first, just so you don’t have a near on heart attack when they ask you if you fancy something to eat.

      1. AnonEmu*

        Any time I’m having is a gaytime ^^ but now I have a fantastic pun to use! XD I snickered like mad the first time I saw one of those tbh. Thanks!

    2. It's Business Time*

      Which city are you moving to and from which US City? I moved from Melb to the Bay Area and while it has not been too difficult, there are always things that pop up, I always use the wrong words to describe things and the accent sometimes gets in the way. I believe there are some groups on facebook for US expats in Australia, we have the same for over here and I find it very helpful to connect to fellow Aussies here in the US as we have similar experiences.

      I hope you love it there and have a good experience!

      1. AnonEmu*

        I’m moving from the Bay Area to a rural area to do some research on livestock. It’s not going to be a very big town, but I’ve lived all over the US before, I’m from Miami originally but I went to college in the Midwest. Thanks for the suggestion of Facebook!

        1. It's Business Time*

          Ahh ok, there may be some adjustments for you just with not having so many conveniences (and internet may not be the best either, as I hear alot of complaints even from the capital cities as well) but you will probably be able to get the best coffees anywhere you go! People are pretty friendly and it if you are an outdoors person you will probably enjoy it alot more too! Hope it all goes well for you and make sure you bring alot of sunscreen and a good hat!

          1. AnonEmu*

            Yeah it looks like the town goes dead on Sundays except for grocery stores, so I may make that my day to do cooking, watch TV, etc. There’s a lot of NBN providers in town, so I just need to find which ones service my place (which will happen once I find an apartment). I am amazed at how cheap cell phone data is! I pay way more for less with Verizon atm. Looking forward to having weekends off for the first time in forever, too, so I will have -time- to cook.

            Definitely an outdoors person, looking forward to biking everywhere ^^

    3. Electric sheep*

      I am Australian! Let me know if you have any questions. *tries to think of useful info* Apparently Australians are way more chill about swearing than most countries, fyi. Also tipping isn’t really a thing here, the service is part of the bill. Oh and the tax is in the bill too, so what you see listed as the price is almost always what you’ll actually pay.
      I hope you enjoy your stay!

      1. Approval is optional*

        Australian here too, I live in the city now but lived in a rural area for many years. Don’t forget to drive on the ‘correct’ side of the road! Keep in mind that when confronted with a risky situation while driving, we tend to react before we think, and we tend to steer to the side of the road our instincts tell us we should be on. And watch out for kangaroos on the road – they can do an incredible amount of damage to your car. I second the sunscreen and hat. It’s summer here at the moment – and the hottest on record in some(most?) areas, so brace yourself for heat.
        We are definitely more chill about swearing – you’ll probably hear the ‘c’ word more than you are used to.
        And don’t say ‘fanny’ for backside – different thing here. :)

        1. Electric Sheep*

          Oh yeah! And we don’t ‘root’ for our sports teams (it also means something different!). Try support or barrack instead.

          1. AnonEmu*

            Good to know re driving/instincts – I’m kind of a nervous driver here in the US anyways so I’m actually planning on biking everywhere I can and taking public transit the rest of the time, but I will be careful of drivers and kangaroos. Is it best to bike facing traffic or with traffic?

            Totally used to heat – from Miami originally but currently experiencing Snowmageddon here in the Midwest. Heat will be a relief, and hopefully I can find a nice tower fan for wherever I wind up living.

            Noted re rooting – I am not the biggest sports person (unless Eurovision counts), but good to know.

            If I’m in northish NSW, what do I need to be on the lookout for re snakes/spiders? I got some new hiking sneakers that come up over my ankles, but I admit I’m used to US snakes and even the ones back home in FL tended to be not very aggressive, and my reaction to black widows out in CA was “immobilize with hair spray and then kill it by throwing something heavy at it”.

            1. Approval is optional*

              If Miami is humid then the heat in NSW might actually be more bearable.
              I’m pretty sure bike riders have to follow road rules in NSW(not my home state), so ride with traffic. Helmets are compulsory which I gather isn’t always the case in the US.
              Most Australian snakes are ‘timid’ and will avoid you, and I don’t think the more aggressive ones are common where you’re going – if you stay out of long grass and stop moving when you see one so it can move away, you should be fine: they rarely want to waste venom on a non-threatening non-food object. I currently have a big eastern brown living in my garden – we give each other space while I wait for someone to relocate it for me, and it hasn’t been a problem.
              Funnel web spiders I don’t know about so perhaps a NSW person could give you tips on those – red backs are like black widows I think with regard to places they like to live and so on.

            2. Electric Sheep*

              Not sure about biking in the country, but be prepared for aggressive drivers (some Australians are impatient towards cyclists, sorry to say) and think about wearing high vis. Legally you are a road vehicle and must follow most of the same rules as cars including riding on the left with the other traffic, but how that applies to local roads I’m not sure. You also must legally wear a helmet, not sure if it’s compusory or not in the US.
              Note also that we stick to the left on footpaths and when standing on escalators, btw!

              Eurovision! Australia is competing this year again. Hopefully you can find some fellow enthusiasts.

              Snakes, mostly just keep an eye out and give them space. Very few people get bitten and they tend to be handling the snake at the the time.
              Spiders, be more wary of them hiding the the garden. Here’s some info from the NSW state govt, although again your overall risk is low. Your local colleagues can give you some region specific info! https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/environment/factsheets/Pages/avoiding-tick-spider-bites.aspx
              We also have huntsmen spiders, which are harmless but quite large and black.

              Total subject change, but one thing that some non-Australians don’t realize is that Canberra is our capital, where the federal govt sits, not Sydney. ‘Those idiots in Canberra’ are always politicians. Also our conservative/right wing party is called the Liberals. (Lower l liberals are left wing though!)

              Both regional areas and more northern areas of Australia tend to be more right wing, and are more likely to be white. People may try to tell you Australia has no class system, but they are wrong, we just have one and try to pretend we don’t. As you would expect, it’s a bit of a conversational minefield.

              1. AnonEmu*

                US it’s compulsory or not depending on where you live – I’m paranoid about wearing mine regardless. I admit I am hoping that living in a town where there’s a research center people will be a bit more liberal, but from what I’ve gathered even Australian conservatives are more liberal than the right wing of American politics? In the US scheme of things I’m a flaming liberal but idk where that’d map in Australia.

                What are some mines to dodge re class? I admit I am unsure how to map US to Australian socioeconomic views, etc, and money and such is something I’d discuss with close friends but would feel very uncomfortable discussing with people my parents’ age or older, or even casual acquaintances. I also admit I don’t tend to discuss religion or politics at work, either (for the most part).

                1. Approval is optional*

                  University towns do tend to liberal compared to the rural areas that surround them I’ve found. And I think you’re right – a flaming liberal there won’t be at an extreme here (I was so far left when I was in the US they didn’t really have a word for me (well, some people did but they weren’t polite words), and I’m not at the extreme here (close of course).
                  I think social classes in Australia are mostly built around jobs, (and by extension income, location of residence, education etc). You will be ‘defaulted’ into a class because of your employment (simplification but mostly works). The difference from the UK (and thus why we tend to think we’re classless as a society) is that one can move through the classes and it is (largely) unrelated to ‘caste’ -eg in the UK you can be an unemployed drifter and still stay upper-class if your father is the Earl of X. The minefield is actually saying we have classes – do as we do, and pretend they don’t exist, and should be cool.
                  Australians rarely discuss religion in my experience, because we’re not a particularly religious society (even those who identify as religious are often not regular church goers for example) so we’re not that interested in it. Politics we do talk about – but more to say how ‘crap’ all politicians are :) – at work though, it’s generally not discussed much with people who are ‘only’ coworkers. I think, sadly, you might run into some anti-American sentiment from some people – unlikely to be coworkers though. It has always existed, but post-Trump it’s probably more noticeable (according to my friends who still have ‘American’ accents.) And conversely, some right wing ‘yay, we want to make Australia great again too’, folks.
                  Australian by and large aren’t big sharers of personal information, so you won’t be seen as strange if you don’t discuss religion, politics, money etc.
                  Oh – watch out for magpies when you’re out and about – we fear them more than any snake or spider.

                2. AnonEmu*

                  Thanks for all the advice! I have been warned near magpies – is bribing them preemptively a good idea or was that more of a joking suggestion? Because if tossing them hotdog slices before swooping season buys me protection, I will totally do that – I’ll be biking to work daily and I am fine with bribing the local wildlife.

    4. Quandong*

      Not a culture tip, but a health & safety one: take sunsafe recommendations seriously, especially if you’re going to be doing fieldwork.

      I hope you really enjoy your new job! And lots of excellent coffee!

      1. Quandong*

        I’m also Australian and happy to answer questions.

        Don’t say ‘rooting’ when you mean ‘barracking’, the meaning here is different!

      2. AnonEmu*

        Weird question, but know of any gluten-free high SPF sunscreens? In the US I buy target store brand, but idk re Australian brands, and at least in the US, gluten tends to pop up in skin stuff a lot bc of using wheat as a vitamin E source. I lost a grandfather to skin cancer complications and I’m paranoid about protection in the sun.

        Not a coffee person but I am addicted to tea and have been assured by my new boss there is a lot of good tea to be found in stores. Are Australians really that horrified by microwaving water for tea, btw? I saw an electric kettle in the office canteen, at least. And I am excited to try all the new kinds of honey!

        Very excited re the new job, it will certainly be an adventure!

        1. Electric Sheep*

          Microwaving to heat water is unusual here! I understand that kettles in the us aren’t very common due to the low voltage, so you might be pleasantly surprised by the faster boil time here.

          On that note, we have 240 volt power, so check to make sure any electronics are compatible/ what adaptors you need.

          There is lots of nice tea and tasty local honeys. I like yellow gum, if you see any.

          You might find that there are fewer brands in general than in the US, and that shipping takes longer and is more expensive – Australia has a much lower population and is a big country so the market isn’t as large and postage costs are higher. Free returns are rare, too.

          But ultimately it’s still a British heritage, English speaking, western country! So not that different.

        2. Quandong*

          I use Moogoo Natural Sunscreen SPF40 – it’s zinc based. The complete ingredients list is available on the Moogoo website, it seems to contain no gluten.

        3. TL -*

          not sure about gf sunscreen, but keep in mind same brands have different ingredients down under, so don’t assume you can eat brands you can in the states – wheat often replaces corn in Aus/NZ manufacturing.

          Some of the weirder stuff for me (in NZ, spent last summer in Aus): talking politics here is much more socially acceptable and generally less heated. People will often want to talk/criticize American politics to you; they will generally assume you agree with them/think American politics should look more like Western European politics, and they generally know very little about American politics beyond major headlines and specific policy decisions that affect their country. (But someone who is well-informed generally makes for fascinating conversations.) This may or may not bother you, depending on your political outlook and sense of nuance. Also, people tend towards a Hollywoodized view of American culture – we export a lot of our media and people’s take aways from it vary a lot.

          Americans are highly self-critical and have (thankfully) very prominent minority voices that consistently call attention to the issues they face in our country – some of that is numbers, as 10% of our country is more than the entire population of Australia – which is not the culture down under as much. My experience has been that while lots of people are quite comfortable talking about American issues, there is not the same level of comfort talking about the issues within their own country. There are exceptions (and those are again fascinating conversations to have) and it is much more pronounced in NZ than Aus, but it’s a bit of a weird thing to see in action.

          Also, the Australians call difficult subjects “confronting” as in “Many people find this exhibit on the AIDS crisis quite confronting.”
          Flip flops are sometimes called jandals, which is a shortened version of Japanese sandals – you can decide your own comfort level with that. People use the c word a lot. It does not have the same significance it has in the USA but literally everyone I have asked not to use that word in conversation with me has been really respectful and understood why I didn’t like hearing that word. Also, that is the C in “they’re a good C” or “GC.”

          The health system in Australia is great; I had a massive drug resistant kidney infection in Sydney (literally for 1.75 of the two months I was there) and got really excellent, reasonably-priced care. It might be a little different in a rural town, but I felt really secure even though I was very sick and on my own. All 5 doctors I ended up seeing (it was A Thing) were great.

          Work/life balance is really important and encouraged. Health and safety regulations seem a little extreme at times, but nothing that prevents you from doing things, just can be frustrating in the moment.

          Travel if you can! Australia is full of lots of cool things you can’t see anywhere else and there is a love of experiencing life in their culture that is amazing. And try a flat white – their coffee is so much better/different than ours that you may like it.

          1. TL -*

            Oh! Do not miss flights – you have to buy a whole new ticket, no matter the reason. And if you miss the first leg of an international flight, you will have been booted from the return flight as well. They are often not clear about that when rebooking and it can be a really unpleasant surprise at the end of an international trip.

          2. AnonEmu*

            My new job seems like they take work/life balance very seriously which is great – I am looking forward to actually having a life for once. There’s a lot of nice bike trails near where I’ll be and I am looking forward to biking more.

            My mom is worried that if I discuss politics at work I’ll suddenly become a lightning rod for any anti-american sentiment, but also that I’ll be viewed as disloyal because I’m willing to say negative things about US politics – is that a legit thing to worry about? FWIW I’m pretty vocal with my friends here in the US re my views on current politics, but I wouldn’t dare make comments about Australian politics as I don’t really know much about them. I’m not usually a discuss politics at work sort of person, but at the same time, idk the best way to respond if I am directly asked?

            Also looking forward to traveling once I get settled – I’ve been to Sydney before, but I’d love to see more of the country (and see wombats again, they are my favorite Australian mammal and I love the little tank bears).

            Thanks for all the advice!

            1. Quandong*

              I think if you gauge the tone of your workplace, and get to know people there before you engage in discussions of politics, that you will be okay. My guess is that you’ll be more likely to encounter people outside of work who will want to talk about politics with you!

              It’s extremely unlikely that you will be viewed as disloyal if you say negative things about US politics. In Australia we tend to be cynical, we have a low level of trust in politicians, and you will notice a Lot of negative sentiments expressed about our government and Prime Minister.

              1. AlsoAussie*

                I agree – most of the Americans i know here want to vent about US politics, and most Australians would be sympathetic to that I think. Universities here also tend to employ quite a few Americans, and we have so much of your TV that Aussies won’t be fazed by accent, word choices etc. If you’re interested in learning about people and places, you shouldn’t have any trouble.

                I’m in Brisbane, and if you’re in the university town in northern NSW that I think you’re talking about, it’s got a reputation for being a leftie hippie area – especially Nimbin and Byron Bay. Also pretty gay-friendly I’d say. Apparently the Northern Rivers Rail Trail is very good for cycling, and the coastline of NNSW is gorgeous.

                1. AnonEmu*

                  Noted for vacations! Hoping to travel to Brisbane at some point as I have a colleague there I’d like to visit. I admit I am so excited to see all the new wildlife – at some point I want to go further south so I can see a wombat in its natural habitat, rather than in the “pay $20 and take a wombat in a doggie harness for a walk and pat it gently” I did at the zoo on my first trip to Australia (which was totally worth it, wombats are blessed little tank bears and my favorite marsupial). Looking forward to seeing all the new birds as well!

                  I am definitely interested in learning more about Australia and its people – very excited to take the new job and not only do exciting research but to explore a new continent ^^

            2. TL -*

              You won’t be viewed as disloyal. Most people I’ve met have assumed that I am 100% for changing American policies to look more like Western European socialist policies without asking me what I think at all.

          3. AlsoAussie*

            we don’t call flip flops jandals in Australia – that’s a kiwi thing – we call them thongs. And yes, we’re aware that they are also skimpy underwear. Somehow we cope with the double meaning!

  46. TooTiredToThink*

    This week my supervisor comes up to me and says “Hey Tired, you doing anything? Can you come with me to this interview?”

    What. Just what. I was like – um, ok. I suddenly became so thankful for this site. Cause I’d never been on that side of the interview process before.

    1. TootsNYC*

      tell us more! Did you come away with any interesting insights? Did you learn anything?

      Did you contribute to the questioning?

      1. TooTiredToThink*

        I actually did have a question that I ended up asking. Mainly I ended up keeping most of my thoughts to myself because this wasn’t a first interview and I wasn’t sure what they had already answered previously. But my main takeaway was because of this site I was able to not just panic and knew how to stay calm and more professional (I tend to have a lot of anxiety when something is new). Also, my hiring process was MUCH different than what they were hiring for so I actually didn’t know the process at all. So I didn’t want to step in it either.

        Mainly I was there to have a second person more than I was anticipated to contribute.

    1. Anonysand*

      My husband is a 1099 contractor and we just put his 1099 details into our software- without inputting expenses, mileage, or my W2s, our owed tax is just over $9k. I know that we can get it down to a more manageable number (like we do every year), but it’s enough to keep me awake at night until then.

    2. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      I kept track of all my payments received with a spreadsheet while doing my contract work and put the taxes away in a separate account. It saved me from any hell come tax time.

      But I’m an accountant and make spreadsheets for everything.

  48. Middle Manager*

    Update on my low performer who wanted new projects (https://www.askamanager.org/2018/08/bad-morale-points-of-no-return-my-office-book-club-is-always-late-and-more.html).

    I completed a very honest annual performance review and gave it to my boss and his boss at the very start of the review period. They were still very resistant to going forward with it and made us run it by HR. Luckily, I found an ally in HR who very much supported me in holding my employee accountable. She was given a poor annual performance review and put on a performance improvement plan.

    On the down side, my two bosses are never going to support me in letting her go if she doesn’t improve. They made that pretty abundantly clear in the days after we started her PIP and they immediately started trying to cave to her demands to lower the expectations of her. But on the positive, she is taking the PIP very seriously. I don’t think she’s going to be a great employee, because she fundamentally lacks some critical skills that are beyond my supervision to provide her (think she is a bus driver who is can barely drive). But if she at the very least gets the minimal work down that she is capable of on time and with any improvement, I think that’s the win I have to take out of this.

    Also, I’m looking for a new job. I like my bosses personally, but their refusal to manage and to let their managers manage is really contributing to a poor culture and this experience made that really clear.

    1. Shark Whisperer*

      Thanks for the update! I love updates!

      It sucks that your bosses won’t let you actually do your job, but you should be proud that you tried to actually do a good job, even if your were hamstrung.

    2. Binky*

      Have you asked them why they won’t support you, when they clearly see the issues in her performance? This is purely for my curiosity, I’m fascinated as to why some bosses are so resistant to managing.

      1. Middle Manager*

        I really struggle to understand their reasoning. My immediate boss just doesn’t seem to want the hassle of firing her and is really worried about her accusing us of racism. My opinion on that is she is an incredible hassle to have on staff already and let her accuse me, everything is incredibly well documented, she’s going to lose that fight. His boss seems to just want to be seen as “the nice one” by everyone to the extreme. Both of them appear to have fully bought into the “you can’t fire anyone here” myth. Honestly though, my employee is just not a problem for them, they get me as a buffer.

        It’s a great case study on why managing is important. They are bending over backwards to keep an incompetent employee happy and that will result in her staying until she retires. In doing so though, they’ve so frustrated me, an outstanding employee according to my performance review, that I’ve got a foot out the door now.

      2. TootsNYC*

        some people just don’t like firing anyone. It yanks the person’s income out from under their feet; it feels mean sometimes.

        1. Middle Manager*

          True. I don’t like the idea of firing someone. And the idea makes me feel terrible for anyone personally. But at the day, the work is the point at work. If someone can’t do the job, even with additional training and support, aren’t we responsible as managers to the company (or in my case to the tax payers).

  49. Où est la bibliothèque?*

    My office is so wasteful, and it drives me nuts.

    Plastic straws in the kitchens (in a city that’s working to ban them). Disposable cups, plates, cutlery. We barely recycle paper, and recycle nothing else. A Keurig, of course. The norm is that anytime someone prints a chart or a memo for herself, she prints one for everyone on her team, whether or not they need it. They’re constantly ordering new little bits of unnecessary branded plastic junk (pencil holders, keychains, stress balls, etc). And people throw batteries in the trash! We’re a lefty educational nonprofit, so it all feels hypocritical.

    Do I try to swim against the tide and object to all the waste?

      1. valentine*

        Even if they are problems, they’re not yours to fix.

        My understanding is disabled people need plastic straws.

        1. SavannahMiranda*

          The plastic straws thing is utterly mystifying to me.

          Well not utterly. I know about microplastics and the oceans and food chains and all that. Save me the sermon for the love of all that is environmental and holy.

          But seriously, straws? It’s a bizarre and precise fixation. It’s so narrow and blinkered. It’s a little bit like the tired old edict to turn off the water when brushing your teeth. Which yeah, sure. Why not.

          But that’s not where our national water waste is coming from. It’s just not. It’s a nice value add. But it’s not actually going to change the world. And plastic straws are not the utter height of deviltry.

          We have more important issues people.

    2. Bunny Girl*

      I feel like a lot of offices are sort of wasteful and use a bunch of disposable stuff because there’s a lot of people who won’t work to keep the kitchen clean and will let dishes and mugs pile up in the sink if that’s the option. I think it depends on your office whether or not you want to start that war. Maybe look into recyclable stuff instead?

      1. angrywithnumbers*

        My office got rid of the disposable stuff and it has been awful. We have a dishwasher but most people ignore it and it does a terrible job of cleaning stuff. The office has broken down into three groups, people like me who bring their own stuff in and take care of cleaning it. People who individually or as groups bought their own disposable stuff and the people who use the stuff provided and make a huge mess in the kitchen.

      2. MattKnifeNinja*

        My breakroom went from marginally livable to room size petri dish when disposable utensils/plates/cups were banned.

        Our dishwasher is beyond gross (unusable?) because a certain jerk loaded up the dishes with food on them into the washer. Didn’t run the machine. The smell is ungodly. I thinks it’s going on week 2 that the dirty dishes are still there.

        Remember everyone will say they care about that sea turtles are not strangled by plastic rings, doesn’t mean they’ll do a damn thing to clean up an breakroom.

        You know your less tidy coworkers. If it’s a semi pit with disposable, it will be full dumpster with kicking it old school.

    3. Folkie*

      I would find this annoying AF too. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with raising it but you may not get very far. I would still try, though, especially if I could align it with the mission of the nonprofit in a way that wasn’t too tenuous.

    4. fromscratch*

      With Earth Day in April, maybe start a discussion about some things you could do and use Earth Day as an “excuse” – educational campaigns, recycling efforts, etc

    5. Shark Whisperer*

      I am biased in that I work with marine debris, but I think you can do something. I wouldn’t try to tackle all the waste at once. Here are my suggestion for first steps:
      – Can you form a sustainability committee for your office? That might help get the ball rolling on thinking about disposables when having events or not ordering plastic junk
      – Are the disposable plates and cutlery for people in the office to use? If you want to incur a cost yourself, buy some plates and cutlery from a thrift store and put them in the kitchen and let everyone know that they are there for everyone to use
      – If you want to take on the responsibility, set up a bin to collect batteries. Either just a cardboard box and transport them to a collection site yourself. Or get a bin through Call2Recycle or similar service
      – Is someone in the office supplying the plastic straws? If so, talk to them about the ban and make sure they don’t stock any more

      1. Où est la bibliothèque?*

        We actually have real dishes and cutlery, people just don’t use them. (And if they do, it seems like they always leave them sitting in the sink, and then there’s a cycle of indignant your-mother-doesn’t-work-here emails).

        I will actually put out a box for dead batteries, that’s probably the easiest step to start with.

        1. WellRed*

          we have this at my work. One of my coworkers then occassionally takes it when she goes to the local wherever she goes to dispose of them.

        2. TootsNYC*

          I just started washing everything that was in the sink while I waited for my coffee to brew, or my lunch to microwave.

    6. Foreign Octopus*

      Instead of objecting to all waste, why don’t you choose one thing and work on that? I’d go with the straws first because that’s the easiest win and then, hopefully, you can ride the wave into other change.

      1. CastIrony*

        No, not the straws! Straws are necessary for people who can’t hold a cup properly for whatever reason. One that comes in mind is people with Parkinson’s Disease or someone whose dominant hand is broken!

        1. Shark Whisperer*

          Fair point, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable for an office to not stock plastic straws. I don’t think Foreign Octopus is suggesting banning straws from the workplace, just not actively providing them. I have actually never worked in an office where straws were actively stocked.

          I totally understand that straws are necessary for people with certain disabilities, but if no one has specifically requested them, I don’t think the office has an obligation to provide them.

        2. TootsNYC*

          this is also an office, with a predictable set of people. If someone really needs a straw, they can probably (a) provide their own; (b) request an accommodation.

        3. Observer*

          As others pointed out, you don’t need to stock plastic straws for the entire office because someone with a relevant disability might be hired.

        4. NoLongerYoungButLotsWiser*

          They make biodegradable, eco friendly straws. Ask them to be stocked. And wooden stirrer sticks. Also, SF Bay coffee company (and possibly others) make a biodegradable coffee pod.

          Those are good places to start.

    7. WellRed*

      I would at least push back on getting hard copies of every thing. “Please don’t print me a copy.” repeat. Recycle when they hand it to you.
      Also, since you are a nonprofit, can you push back on the plastic junk? What a waste of $.

      1. Common Welsh Green*

        Most people in my company have some sort of reminder – Be kind to your Mother; don’t print what you don’t need, that sort of wording – incorporated into their signature line. We also have fairly draconian rules governing how long various types of printed documents have to be tracked and stored, and at what level of security: locked desk, locked filing cabinet, locked filing cabinet in a locked office, locked strongbox in a secret vault under a mountain in Colorado (okay, maybe not the last one). No one wants the trouble of tracking anything more than we have to, and it really reduces the amount of paper we waste.

    8. Garbage People Living on Garbage Island*

      My office has recently undergone a green initiative! They invested in getting anyone who wanted his/her own reusable utensils, plate, bowl, lunch bag, mug, etc. They also posted instructions on how to recycle a K-cup (peel foil lid off, compost contents, recycle the rest). Perhaps you can print out the instructions and post near the Keurig? I believe you can also collect used K-cups and mail them to be recycled (https://www.groundstogrowon.com/keurig/home.html;jsessionid=02AC1BF9E2BBB2ED0DC7B6C73BA94775.worker1).

    9. Garland not Andrews*

      One thing you could do is put out a bin for “GOOSE” (good on one side) paper. Then people can dump unneeded paper in there and everyone can pull some out for scratch paper.

      1. Où est la bibliothèque?*

        I already do that, and people make fun me for it in some less-than-PC language.

        1. Zweisatz*

          Wow, what a crap bunch. This won’t change who you have to work with, but I for one want to express my appreciation to you for trying.

    10. Kittyfish 76*

      My office is similar. The best I can do is take home whatever does not have sensitive information on it and put it in my own personal recycle bins. It may not make a big impact, but it makes me feel better.

    11. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      Why aren’t you recycling?! Most places it’s free service.

      I would push against the grain in terms of asking to head up a crusade to get recycling bins. Get a bin for batteries and set up a pickup if that’s possible or whatever.

      Ask about paper straws. Ask about stocking cheap washable dishes…but without a dishwasher you’re probably not going to get far there.

      Suggestions and offering to help is huge. Don’t ask to fix it without a plan of action to share. Otherwise you’re not doing it right and are easier to tune out as a nuisance.

      I wouldn’t die on the hill but try fighting it to a reasonable extent.

      1. ThursdaysGeek*

        We used to have recycling, but then it was no longer offered. Not that the company didn’t want to use it – there isn’t anyone who will pick up recycling anymore. I’ve been recycling cans on my own, but there’s no money in anything else, and not really enough in cans to make it worth my gas.

      2. Observer*

        Recycling is actually NOT free in many places. In NYC, for instance, businesses have to pay for trash colleciton, including recycling. Also, sometimes the rules are such that it becomes impractical, especially if the organization doesn’t want to invest a lot of effort.

    12. Lena Clare*

      I take it home with me to recycle, and turn of lights when not in use etc.

      More people in work have noticed and try to make an effort too, and several will ask me if I want to take rubbish home to recycle – before they would have automatically thrown it away.

      So it is worth trying to change people’s habits :)

    13. Anono-me*

      People are lazy, people are gross, and companies care about the bottom line. You’re probably not going to change that. You have a much better chance of getting changes made, if the changes are easy and don’t cost money.

      I would suggest researching cheaper and more eco-friendly alternatives to the straws and disposable products that are currently being offered for your co-workers. Using shared real dishes would be the most ecofriendly, but it sounds like your office won’t do that.

      Can you investigate what it would take to set up some recycling bins for other materials in your workspace and the cost of having your hauler pick those up? Many haulers will do it for free due to local incentives or the aluminium recycling.

      Can you find out what having an energy audit of your building would entail? This is often a big money saver both at work and at the office.

    14. welcome to friday*

      There is nothing wrong with plastic straws and banning them is an overreaction that hurts more people than it ever helps.

      1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

        Riiiiiiight, human made waste is bad for the environment we share with other creatures. You sound like someone who also refuses to believe in global warming as well.

        1. Yet another Kat*

          It’s possible to acknowledge that plastic waste is harmful to the environment, and especially to marine wildlife, while also being aware that plastic straw bans are not some sort of environmental back-patting panacea and that they have an overwhelmingly negative impact on accessibility.

      2. Shark Whisperer*

        There are people that need straws. That is true. But over 600,000 straws were picked up at the International Coastal Cleanup last year. I don’t think the vast majority of those straws were used by people that need them. It is not unreasonable to suggest that people who don’t need them stop using them.

      3. Où est la bibliothèque?*

        Getting rid of plastic straws isn’t exactly about helping people. It’s about helping the planet. And none of the bans, even in super progressive cities, mean that restaurants don’t have them if they’re requested. They just aren’t freely available or automatically delivered with your drink.

        Also this stupid office stocks plastic coffee-stirrers too, is there nothing wrong with those either?

    15. Alfonzo Mango*

      Do your personal best and work toward changes in small ways. Have you been working there long?

    16. Clever Name*

      So I’m really curious. What do you do with your batteries at home? Like the duracell AA batteries and not Li ion batteries from hand tools etc. I have never seen any way to recycle/dispose of AA/AAA/C/D batteries. I know of people who collect them in giant bins, but I don’t know where one would take them.

      1. Shark Whisperer*

        I used to work in an office that had a collection bin, so I took all of my household batteries to work. Now I take mine to the local home depot. There are also grocery store around me that have collection bins. If you go to the Earth911 website, they have a handy recycling locator tool that you can use to find battery recycling near you.

        1. nonegiven*

          alkaline batteries
          2 places, 75 & 80 miles away, both state for residents of that city, only.
          a bunch of mail in programs.

          office paper
          the closest place that isn’t residents only is 68 miles.

    17. Observer*

      Before you start going to war you need to figure out what the alternatives are.

      eg “Ban disposables” sounds good, but who is going to make sure that the dishes get washed? (This site contains some really good discussions about the difficulty of keeping shared facilities clean.)

      1. Où est la bibliothèque?*

        My dream would be to give everyone a plate, a cup, and a set of utensils. You write your name on them. You use them, you wash them. If you leave them on the counter/in the sink, someone else is free to move them as-is to your desk. If only I was in charge of everything…

        1. Observer*

          I hear you. Do you want to be right or effective :)?

          Realistically speaking, you’ve gotten some good suggestions. On the dishes thing, I’d suggest suggesting paper rather than plastic plate and / or going to lighter weight dishes. Still disposable, but paper is at least technically biodegradable, which is a good thing if it winds up in the environment. Also, lighter weight means less of whatever it is.

          From what you said about the paper thing, it sounds like you have a bit of a culture problem as well. You’re going to need to navigate this a bit carefully, for your own sanity.

          One winner is finding things that actually save the organization money and mentioning it up front. For instance, if there is a lot of use for the scrap paper pile, you could point out that this reduces the paper cost for the org by x%, where X is a significant amount. Unless someone believes that we should “eat teh rich” or some such, that’s kind of hard to mock as being “too PC” or “eco crazy” or whatever.

    18. Koala dreams*

      You can try bringing up the upcoming plastic straw ban in the break room and see if you can find some allies. It’s easier to bring things up as a group. If that doesn’t work, you can still be a good role model by using non-disposable things, refusing plastic junk and saying “no, thanks” to the memos.
      If you want recycling set up at the company, it usually takes some effort for the set up (the bins, new waste collection schedule and so on), but sometimes even disposable cups and such can be recycled (depending on where your live).

      The amount of trash would multiply if we used disposable everything at my small company, so I understand how you feel.

    19. Approval is optional*

      Depends on your office culture: in some offices you might as well just hit your head against a wall as try to implement change!! But if you decide to swim, I’d suggest a business case: pick one or more areas that savings can be made in and present numbers – cost of implementing, dollar savings – short and long term etc-, ‘PR’ impact, if relevant – can the business attract new customers/grants/donations by promoting their ‘greenness’ etc-, how it relates to business mission. Most important will be, in my experience, savings, business owners/boards like to save money!

    20. Even Steven*

      Yikes! That sounds frustrating, but I agree with the folks that it may not be a hill worth dying on. That said you might be able to suggest to marketing that if they are ordering branded swag, that they order sturdy plastic lidded tumber cups that come with a permanent straw. One suggestion a hill does not make! We did this in my office and stopped buying disposable ones entirely.

      Also, HR sent an email suggesting that we all keep real cutlery and a plastic plate/bowl or two in our desks. They took too long to order them, so I brought in my own. I had a whale of a time in the Japanese dollar store picking out fun office lunch dishes. We still go through bales of paper napkins and paper coffee cups, and that dang Keurig! – but one fight at a time.

      1. Even Steven*

        And should add – my company strongly encourages people to speak up about things to improve. We actually have a Suggestion Box on our intranet home page, and people are rewarded with recognition and gift card points for ideas that are implemented. In this environment, this would not be a hill to die on, or even a slope. Depends on company culture, I think.

  50. Sally Sparrow*

    I am so excited; I got called last week and offered the job for which I had been interviewing. It is a huge step up for me in just about every aspect. The new organization is much larger, well-known, the pay is better, and it is in the geographic location I had been hoping to eventually end up in. And on the smaller scale of the job duties itself, it is exactly what I would like to pivot and focus on in my career.

  51. merp*

    This might cross a border between work and non-work open threads but there’s a lot going on in my personal life and I find it’s really distracting me at work. Any tips (other than therapy, currently doing that) for not letting thoughts about whatever difficult personal thing is going on drag you away from work? Kind of wondering what works in the moment for other people.

    1. Bunny Girl*

      Do you have some PTO built up? Take a couple days. Have a long weekend. It won’t distract you from work thoughts but it will give you a recharge so when you go back to work, you should have more energy to get back into the swing of things.
      Also, maybe try listening to podcasts. Having other people’s thoughts in your head might be distracting enough to help.

    2. Justin*

      I (also in therapy) make a lot of lists and allow myself to briefly celebrate each time an item is crossed off.

      So, like.

      1. Thing
      (short break to appreciate)
      2. Thing

      etc

      Good luck

    3. Cartographical*

      Worry can be reduced, in my experience, by reassurance that you’ll cope no matter what happens. Journaling is great for that — as a chronic ruminator it’s helped me stay on track. If you set aside a little time at the start of the day to list your ongoing concerns and jot down how you’re dealing with them, or if you have to wait or whatever is the case or even “I don’t know but I’ll figure it out ask a friend, etc.”, then write out a reassurance like a little contract with yourself that you will deal with it and take care of yourself, your brain may be willing to let you off the hook.

      I really recommend writing by hand in a dedicated journal for this. Once I’ve acknowledged it, and it’s recorded, I find my brain settles down and trusts me to get on with my work. If necessary, scribble worries down on something convenient and tuck it away to put in your journal later. I find there’s a bit of a backlog when I start after a hiatus, then it settles down to where it’s a quick check in every morning. And make sure you note what you have resolved: letters sent, tests done, arrangements made so you can concretely acknowledge that you are taking care of it and your worry brain can go have a nap from 9 to 5.

      Hope your personal situation improves!

    4. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      I don’t think it’s possible to 100% compartmentalize personal things from work. But one thing that helps me (and it’s advice I’ve given others) is to reframe your time at work in your mind.

      Sometimes it’s enough to allow yourself to leave the personal at the door and use work as the escape from it. Just like it’s fine to leave work stressers in the office to keep it from affecting the personal time.

      What works in the moment… find a nice juicy project that takes a lot of thought. Or a rote task that gives you mental time to wander. Otherwise I’ll acknowledge the personal thought… but mentally redirect myself back to work.

    5. WomanOfMystery*

      I find that physically interrupting myself when I get in a worry spiral helps. I make a point of forcing my shoulders down, taking a deep, slow breath, and relaxing my hands gets me to be able to put worry down and focus on what I need to do right then.

    6. Combinatorialist*

      For me what is helpful is to get really organized at work. If I have very clear direction of my goals for each day and what I plan to accomplish, then it is easier to not get caught up in my personal stuff. Also trying to get as much sleep as possible, and being nice to myself. But specifically the work stuff is the more rigid I can make my structure the better I do with it.

    7. Clever Name*

      I’m not sure I’ve got great tips on being more focused, but I’ve been through some super distracting personal stuff lately, and I’ve been letting my manager and my mentor know what’s going on. Being like this is uncharacteristic of me, and I think it helps that they understand why. I should probably take more mental health days too.

  52. Seifer*

    My boss wants me to meet with him and his boss about adding another role to my job. My boss used to be my coworker and we used to kvetch about our salaries together. So I told him if he’s going to be having me cover two positions, I’d like my pay to reflect that. We both… like, squirmed a little, since salary talk is awkward, but he promised he’d talk to his boss about it, since he agrees with me.

    But now, I know what I want to ask for, but at the same time, I’m in a weird position. I have more experience than another guy we hired last year that gets paid more than I do, but he has a Bachelor’s degree and I do not. The guy that was doing the position they want to add for me was also paid more than me. He was terrible at it, but he had a mechanical engineering degree. I do not. I was hired at a rate that was much higher than I had at my last company but now with shifting responsibilities and an expanded role… I definitely want more money. I just have no idea how to ask for it because I don’t feel like I’m going to get a positive answer. Ugh, anxiety!

    1. NACSACJACK*

      There is a point in everyone’s career where experience and ability matter more than having a degree. However, not having a degree will always be a drawback. That said, ask for what you feel you deserve, not what you think you can get. The result will be a dialog and maybe you and mgmt can meet somewhere between. You may not get all you want, but they will get a dedicated employee, if they can meet you part way. All you can do is ask.

    2. irene adler*

      Just a suggestion: its what you can do for the company that counts.

      I’m sorry, just having a college degree shouldn’t be the sole arbiter of your salary. There’s plenty of educated, inept people out there. And there’s a can-do person, YOU!, who can carry out the tasks needed. I’d say the can-do person is worth more than the degree-holding person.

      So if they think the degree-holding persons can do the tasks you are being asked to do, then give the extra work to them. Otherwise, let’s see some respect for your abilities via a beefed up pay check.

      1. Seifer*

        Thank you for the kind response! And yes, that’s what my original boss decided when he hired me. I was actually pre-med when I started college, but I just… did not want. Like, any of it–being a doctor, student loans, college in general. So I dropped out and started working. When my original boss interviewed me, I had frantically googled what exactly the position I was interviewing for about two hours before I left to go to the interview. I was able to relate my life and work experience to the job requirements and got hired and have been impressing him ever since with my can-do attitude.

        Thankfully, they didn’t debate between me and those that hold degrees. Rather, my current boss said, Seifer will be able to do it. My grandboss agreed and said, yes, she’s fantastic, let’s talk. And that’s so flattering, but my worry is that they will forget those things that they said once I say that I want my level of compensation to reflect my expanded role, because of my lack of credentials. It happened to me before at my last job, and even though my boss in my last job was a completely different person from my current boss and grandboss, I’m still nervous! It’s hard to walk it off, you know? But your response was just the pep talk I needed!

        1. ..Kat..*

          If you can find market rates for the job you do for your area, it is easier to back up your salary request. Good luck.

    3. Finally Back In A 'Proper Job'*

      Have you read ‘Feminist Fight Club’? It’s geared towards women (obvs) but the chapter on salary negotiations is definitely relevant for all.

      One bit of advice is not to be nervous. After all, the worst they can say is ‘no’ to the figure you want. You can then make the decision whether you’re willing to take on the additional duties at the salary increase they do offer. You are in control here.

      Another tip: since it is pretty normal for the boss to negotiate down from whatever figure you state, you’re better off starting at an even higher figure (as long as it’s not insane). So if you want a £10k increase, ask for a £12k or £15k one to start with so you have some room to ‘come down to look like a willing team player’ but you actually got what you wanted from the get-go.

      Come prepared with a script, backed up by research:

      ‘I’ve always been an enthusiastic employee as evidenced by X and am keen to continue to perform whilst expanding my skill set by taking on these additional duties.’

      ‘My performance in my current role has been consistently strong as evidenced by X, Y and Z and I know I can continue to perform well.

      ‘I am suited to the new role as evidenced by A, B and C’

      ‘I am keen to learn and develop but balancing two roles will likely mean additional hours as well as [training, learning, more business travel, whatever else] so I want to be compensated accordingly.’

      ‘Market value for the new role is [range]. I feel I fit at X along that scale because [evidence] so that is the salary I feel is appropriate’

      Finally, your lack of a degree is completely irrelevant so don’t let any doubts or insecurities you have about that creep in to the negotiations. The other guy’s knowledge, experience, qualifications and therefore salary negotiations are between him and the company. This is all about you, what you bring to the table and what that is worth.

      Good luck!!!

  53. DaffyDuck*

    DH got a job offer in his field, the contract has a 1-year non-compete clause that basically covers the whole USA and no severance pay (both for him leaving and if he gets laid off). This seems pretty extreme to me, and I think it is definitely a section to negotiate. It is a pretty specialized field and companies get bought out fairly often. But not being able to work for a year (and no compensation if they lay you off). Anyone else in markets or know of places that do this?

    1. BelleMorte*

      IANAL but non-competes that limit your ability to work at all generally aren’t enforceable in most jurisdictions. Your husband my want to do a quick free consult with an employment lawyer to see if this would actually be enforceable.

      1. DaffyDuck*

        Thanks! This company has a headquarters in one state, offices in another, and we live in a third (all a plane flight away from each other). These pages look boilerplate and tacked onto the end of the contract, he is finding an employment lawyer to check it out.

    3. Anono-me*

      I would worry that even if the attorney says the non-compete is probably unenforceable, the company may try to enforce it anyway, which would be expensive to litigate. Also, I would worry that the noncompete and possible attendant drama may scare off other employers who just don’t want the hassle.

      1. DaffyDuck*

        Yes, this is why it is something he wants to negotiate down/away. A long-past job had something similar, under the original owner it wasn’t a problem (and the guy said go ahead and have HR change the contract – but DH never followed up on it), but when old owner retired and partner decided to sell out DH got screwed. Drove home that what your contract says matters, no matter how well you get along with the boss.

    4. Rick Tq*

      Non-compete agreements are unenforceable in California, they can only apply to principals in a company.

      That is black-letter law in the Business code, and the employment lawyer I talked to said the courts in CA have held the clause non-severable and fatal to the entire contract as a matter of public policy.

    5. Audrey*

      Wow, I’ve see non-poaching clauses for a year, but never a whole year of non-compete. That doesn’t seem tenable at all!

    6. DCR*

      It’s highly unlikely it’s enforceable, but most companies wouldn’t want to take the litigation risk unless your husband is very senior. Best advice is to negotiate it away

  54. Snark*

    My coworker is a kindly elderly man who I have no personal beef with, aside from his tendency to ramble really pressing my buttons. But after having most of his workload redistributed to the rest of the team, he still is so perpetually overwhelmed and shut down that he…doesn’t….do…..shit. He had to prepare a continuity binder for his program, which I am now taking over, and he delivered it to me fully assembled with all the appropriate sections…but zero content. None. I have to do it all.

    I understand that he has severe anxiety, to the point of occasional panic attacks, but the amount of his work I am already doing is insane, and I am finding myself intensely pissed off at having to do yet more that he’d already agreed to do.

    1. fposte*

      Oooh. Is he hanging on until retirement with management’s blessing, or is this changeable via management?

          1. valentine*

            Do whatever you would do if he didn’t retire, in case he doesn’t and so you don’t feel helpless.

        3. Queen of Cans and Jars*

          Not sure if my link will reappear sometime, but my only suggestion is google “countdown calendar.”

  55. Winifred*

    Wondering how to reframe for management the fact that staff get cost of living adjustments only, that are referred to as “salary increases” in the annual salary letter we all get. I work in a religious nonprofit and almost no one ever gets a raise. (Having said that, I am the de-facto HR person and do know some of the staff *have* received real raises over the past few years.) I used AAM’s script last year (after 5 years of employment) to advocate for a raise, and was denied (“not in the budget”, no explanation of what I could do to merit a raise).

    I thought of saying casually, when the letters come (usually the volunteer board president comes to the office to sign them), “thanks, but this is actually a cost of living adjustment, not a salary increase,” just to see where that lands.

    We are part of a larger religious order with salary “guidelines” that do not need to be followed, and most of us are underpaid. I’ve been here 5 years so my salary has been flat this whole time. However, there are many perks such as an easygoing environment, I work part-time in summer, and get 4 weeks of vacation. So I have plenty of time to pursue my outside interests but am just irked at a COLA being framed as a salary increase. TGIF!

    2. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      Does it matter what it’s called if the end result is the same?

      We get merit increases, HR is adamant that we don’t get COLA. Call it whatever you want as long as it means more money I don’t really care.

    3. Someone Else*

      Where I’ve worked the distinction is between “cost of living increase” and “merit raise” (or just “raise”). The phrase “salary increase” covers both of those things. They’re two different kinds of, or reasons for, a salary increase. Your irritation with the phrasing might be due to the norm/use at your specific place of work, but in general, unless these are one-time bonuses and not a permanent increase, I don’t see a problem with referring to a COLA as a “salary increase”. It is one, just based on COL, not merit. If they’re calling it a “raise” I’d probably push back on instead calling it a COLA, but just calling it an increase is vague but not wrong or misleading, to me.

  56. Phone interview*

    I have a phone interview today for an e-learning analyst position. The scariest question would be what are your salary expectations? I’ve done some research and I think I have a good range in mind. I was wondering if anyone here would have an idea what they would think this position would pay?

    My background – currently 5 years as an LMS administrator, intermediate level Lecotra user, video and graphics editing experience, formerly in tech support/help desk, bachelor’s degree

      1. Phone interview*

        I’ve checked Glassdoor, Payscale and Salary websites. It seems like a good median salary is 25% more then I currently make.

  57. fromscratch*

    This week in “I think I made a mistake taking this job” – my boss told me not to talk to HR if I have concerns in the future. I only talked to HR b/c he was on vacation and I needed an answer to an urgent $$$ related question.

    Also, thanks to everyone who provided feedback on my expenses related question last week. I spoke to HR about my financial concerns and they are working on a solution for future work travel. Still haven’t been reimbursed for my last trip though.

    1. valentine*

      If you’re the one who had to wait for a hardcopy check, this is outrageous. Can you take PTO until they pay you?

    2. ..Kat..*

      For your first paragraph, your boss is being ridiculous.

      For the second, with this much travel, I don’t understand why they are not using a company credit card or a cash advance. Next time you are up for travel, can you say, “I haven’t been reimbursed for my last trip.” and/or “I don’t have the cash to be able to go. I can’t afford the interest charged on a credit card until I am repaid.” Technically, your company is forcing you to give them a short term, interest-free loan.

  58. Preggo but leggo my job*

    I left a great but underpaid job at a financially unstable, small company to take the next step up in pay and responsibilities at a more stable, slightly larger company. It’s been a hot mess since I’ve joined less than a year ago, deteriorating to the point where global is shutting down the company in our region. I will be laid off next month. I am and have been actively looking for a while now with no luck so far, and by the time I lose my job, will be obviously pregnant in a male-dominated industry. We won’t be thrown out of our home, but it’s going to be a struggle living on an income we had circa 10 years ago. While I am still excited to become a parent, and will be grateful for some time off with the baby, I wanted ultimately to go back to work and am concerned that my promising-and-engaging career has just gotten effectively mommy-tracked. Any advice from folks who’ve been in similar situations?

    1. Kaitlyn Westlet*

      A very similar situation happened to me when I was pregnant with my first child in 2009. My best advice is just don’t worry about looking pregnant in job interviews. Wear clothes that deemphasize it if you can, but since they aren’t allowed to ask, you don’t have to volunteer the info. The thing that I did helped me most was work with a temp agency. They were able to pre-screen me for jobs that I actually was interested in and would excell at. Most of them were temp to hire positions and I wound up getting a great job that I liked starting from temping there. The temp agency was able to get me back to work right away so even if I was just doing admin work for a short term assignment, I still had money coming in. Congrats on the baby and good luck!!

    2. CupcakeCounter*

      I second temp work – it will keep money coming in until the baby is born and will get you back out there pretty quick. Plus maybe you’ll get placed at a great company that loves you so much they’ll offer you a permanent position either before or after the baby is born.

    3. Grace Less*

      For anyone who has had a career gap due to family (or other reasons), I’m seeing a promising trend (in industries that need to encourage diversity and are facing worker shortages) of companies offering “re-entry” programs for people who want to resume their careers after time away.

  59. EnfysNest*

    I had training this week, and while the training itself was actually pretty interesting, I was super done with a few of my fellow trainees by the third day (it lasted 4 days). A few of the most notable ones:

    -The Jokester, who had to make a witty (or not so witty) joke every time the instructor paused long enough to take a breath. (The trainer was already including a sufficient amount of humor in his presentation – The Jokester just kept taking things too far or derailing with his own jokes or comments.)
    -The Storyteller, who had a personal life story for every topic. Always started by saying it was a *quick* story. It never was. Usually only barely related.
    -The Expounder, who had to elaborate on every point and explain the things that he felt the instructor missed. “Well, actually, I read recently that…” or “Isn’t actually more important to…” or “Shouldn’t you talk about how…”
    -The Challenger, who didn’t think this training was necessary and thought that his way was best and was quick to say that the instructor’s method was excessive and unneeded. “Why should I…” and “I’ve never been hurt doing it that way before.”
    -The Whisperers, who were not nearly as quiet as they thought they were. (Annoying, but not as bad as the couple of other guys who weren’t even trying to whisper.)

    Bonus: Not annoying, but still memorable – The Water Dude, who brought in a full plastic gallon container of water and drank nearly all the way through it every day, drinking straight from the jug throughout the day.

    Like I said, the training itself was really good, but after 4 full days locked in a small conference room with 20 other people, this introvert is definitely very happy to be back behind her own office door again. :P

    1. No Tribble At All*

      Enjoy your quiet office! My (least) favorite is the But What About Me Guy, who always asks questions about how changes will affect him, even when they clearly won’t. It’s become a running joke. Such as “We’ll be introducing process X to replace methods A, B, and C,” “I use method D. Should I use process Y now?” It’s like he never learned to only ask questions if they benefit the group.

      1. valentine*

        In future, you can ask the trainer to rein them in and interrupt with “Why don’t we get back on track” to the trainer, if necessary. This came up here recently and I think the person gave feedback at the end of the day and the trainer shut down the nuisance the next.

    2. Folkie*

      I go to quite a few music workshops, and my favourite is the person who asks the really technical or niche question, in a way that is obviously trying to catch the teacher/leader out. Like, why did you come if you think you know better than the person running it?!

    3. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain*

      The Sky Is Falling Person or What If? Person who acts as though all changes are the end of the world as we know it or they need to go through all of the disaster scenarios? I just sat through a meeting with several of them yesterday because there will be some changes to the parking lot for our building and the “what if” scenarios were getting c.r.a.z.y. The different speakers had to reiterate over and over and over that there was enough parking for everyone who currently has a parking pass, no one was losing their parking pass, there has been and continues to be security in the parking lot, etc. etc. “What if I’m here until midnight?” You can remain parked in the parking lot until midnight and security has a 24hr escort; “What if (a business adjacent to us) has an event…on a weekend?” Parking in our lot is by permit and we have security to patrol…even on the weekend. “What do we do if there’s trash in our lot from the other businesses?” So again, the lots are patrolled…and we do regular groundskeeping. Honestly it’s like they’ve never been out in the big bad world before.

    4. froodle*

      Maybe Water Dude was making his own drinking challenge, chugging whenever one of the other trainees after out? “Oh good An unrelated personal story,” : :swig::

      Seriously though as.an introvert with some extremely loud and boisterous co-workers who think they’re a whole lot more entertaining than they are, allllll the sympathy

    5. ..Kat..*

      A good instructor will learn how to shut at least some of these down. Can you put this info into a course evaluation?

  60. Returning from Medical Leave*

    Looking for assistance with scripts!
    I am currently on extended medical leave. My coworkers know this but (with the exception of one person who is a close family friend and was before we worked together) they don’t know why. I’ve been very appreciative of my company’s respect for my privacy. So no concerns about boundary steppers at the moment. However I’m anticipating when I go back I will likely get a lot of “how are you doing/feeling” etc type small talk, either out of genuine concern or perfunctory human social contract.
    I don’t want to say “ok” because I’m concern it’ll be too brief and/or sound evasive, even if “ok thanks for asking”. But I also don’t want to say “well” (which is what I might normally if this were a normal human acknowledgement”how are you”) because at that point I will not actually be well. I’ll be well enough to work per my doctor, but not 100%. I don’t want to extend the conversation beyond what’s necessary but also don’t want to give the impression I’m completely back to normal when I am not, for practical reasons.
    So….what’s a short, reasonable, breezy-ish response that doesn’t get into details, acknowledges the social contract of someone asking after my well being, but doesn’t mislead?
    Keep in mind they pretty much all know I’ve been unwell, so this is definitely not the normal “they’re not really asking how you are; it’s just a greeting” situation. I’m looking for help responding to those who know I was gone for health reasons and are asking how I am in that context. Thanks.

      1. Parenthetically*

        Yeah, I like a breezy, “Headed in the right direction/recovering as expected/trucking along, thanks! How’s (work project) coming along?”

    2. fposte*

      It’s not that far removed from “just a greeting,” though–it’s a check-in, not an interview question. So I’m with Lilith in that you can say “I’m a lot better now, thanks” and that’s likely to cover it just fine.

    3. Grandma Mazur*

      I always say “not too bad thanks” (where you can change the intonation as applicable depending on how much “truth” you want to convey – sounding cheery, resigned, surprised, weary, etc) and quickly follow up with “how are you?” and, if I think they might want more detail, I have a specific question ready for them – eg: “not too bad thanks, how are you? How did that presentation to company X go?”

    4. DaffyDuck*

      How about a quick acknowledgement and then change of subject “Happy to be back at work, how is project X coming along?”

    5. Lavender Menace*

      I’ve been in this situation before and I go for honest but upbeat:

      “Not so great, but we’re working on it” *smile smile* “How are you?”
      “I’ll be better soon, thank you so much for asking.”
      “Rebounding quickly, I hope! Thanks for asking!”

      I use the “thanks for asking” or “how about you?” to signal that I am done talking about me and ready to move onto something else.

    6. Sleepytime Tea*

      There is nothing wrong with “ok, thanks for asking.” We feel a sort of obligation to give people information when they ask, but there isn’t really any need for your to expound on your situation. When I came back from medical leave, I said things like:
      Doing better, thank you. (You are better than you were, so not implying everything is perfect now)
      Things have improved, thanks for asking!
      Still getting back to normal, but almost there.
      Feeling better than I was, for sure.

      And in those occasions where people seemed to be truly concerned I was getting the care I needed, I would say something like “I have great doctors and we’re still working everything out, but it’s definitely getting better.”

    8. Daughter of Ada and Grace*

      I like “Oh, as well as can be expected.” Pleasant, accurate, vague, and useful in a variety of situations where you’re expected to not be well, but no one actually wants to discuss the details.

    9. Natalie*

      I really like “Oh, you know” for this kind of question because it’s so vague as to be meaningless. “Oh you know. [beat] Happy to be back! How are you?”

    10. Cartographical*

      “Improving, thanks! Glad to be back.”
      “Better and looking forward to getting back to normal, thanks.” (hint, hint)
      “Happy to be back to work, how have things been?”
      “Getting there, thanks! What did I miss?”

      I have extended absences for something that won’t kill me but won’t ever get better and people really struggle to understand that last part — not everyone appreciates the “I’ll be better when I’m dead!” joke.

      If you know people well enough to remember what projects they were on, classes they were taking, what their kids were doing, asking something specific is a fast way to catch up AND deflect. If you have an office ally, at least get some updates on the very nosy types so you can put the questions back on them. “I hear you’re a grandma now, how’s it going?”

  61. Zona the Great*

    I’m looking for advice on how I can, or if I can, respond to a frequent issue I come across which is other people wasting my time at work with meaningless meetings, collaborations, etc. So often, someone calls a meeting with me or the whole team, and I walk in to find the host hasn’t prepared for the meeting so we are all waiting and watching as they boot up and gather themselves. I would understand if we ran from meeting to meeting but that is rarely the case.

    Other times, and more annoyingly, someone calls a meeting with the team to discuss a task, challenge, review work, etc. So so so often, these meetings are just us watching one person brainstorm ideas out loud, proofread and edit work on the big screen while we all watch, or its just something that didn’t require interrupting our work for a meeting, like to discuss what bullet points should be included on a powerpoint slide we will present soon. All of that can be done on email.

    I have one coworker that has a bad habit of turning away from me with her finger raised (like, “hold on while I look”) while she spends 10 minutes googling the question I came to ask her. I did that myself before I asked her which I always tell her but she still expects that I have the time or desire to sit and watch her google things. Can I just say, “I’ll be in my office when you’re done?” That seems rude considering I came to her to ask the question.

    How do you all advocate for your time and respond to these types of things?

    1. Susie Q*

      For your last one, maybe email people a question instead of wasting time by asking it in person, then they could respond in their own time. Especially since you seem so concerned about your time being wasted.

      2. ..Kat..*

        Also, tell them, “I could not find the answer on Google, in Work Manual X, (and whatever else you tried).

    2. Lavender Menace*

      Hoo boy. I feel you, Zona.

      As for the first situation – I don’t know, I kind of allow that some leeway. As long as the booting up and gathering oneself doesn’t take more than 2-3 minutes, I figure that’s just part of the meeting – you’ve got to project, pull up your slides or whatever, etc. However, I am in a culture where we *do* run from meeting to meeting, so maybe that’s just part of our culture.

      For the second thing, are you in a culture where you can ask for an agenda ahead of time? It doesn’t have to be ‘please complete this agenda template in advance’; it can be a sort of ‘hey Jane, can you let me know what you’d like to discuss in this meeting?’ with a touch of ‘I’d like to make sure that I’m prepared for it.’ Jane’s response can help you decide whether or not it’s really something that could be done in a email or it’s going to be people brainstorming at you, and then you can decide what to do. I have some stock phrases I use to decline meetings – “Sorry, I don’t have the bandwidth for this today; I’ll touch base with you later to catch up” (in which ‘touch base’ is ‘I will send you a mail with thoughts’). Or “I have a conflict, so I’ll follow up with you afterwards.’ (Doesn’t matter if the conflict is that I want to eat lunch quietly by myself.)

      I’m introverted, so it took me a while to understand, but I have also recognized and accepted that some of the extroverts on my team really need to do that out loud brainstorming and proofreading and editing in meetings for them to get their thoughts together. I allow for a certain amount of it to be a good team player, but I bring my laptop and get light tasks done. (I always have hundreds of emails I could be responding to!)

      As for that coworker in the last, I don’t think it’s rude, just depends on the delivery. I usually wait about 2 minutes or so until it’s clear she’s going to be deep in it, then say something like “Thanks so much for looking into it Cassie! Looks like it’ll be a little more complex than I thought, so I can circle back around with you later” and then back away.

      If you’re on the kind of team where people just throw meetings on your calendar, block off some chunks of time for you to get focused work done. Make sure that you do leave some open times when you’re willing to meet. I’ve found that this helps me control my meeting calendar more, and I can decide to set aside certain days for meetings only or I can spread them out across the week as I please. People with non-essential asks usually think twice about whether they really need me if they have to wait 2 weeks to meet with me. People with non-urgent asks usually just find the time on the calendar in the week or so, and people with actually urgent asks (or who think they have them) will ping me to ask if I have some time – but that means they are forced to explain what they want to meet with me about first! Win-win-win.

    3. Sleepytime Tea*

      At one point I shamelessly started declining meetings with a particularly egregious coworker, but before you get to that point, what I started doing was before accepting a meeting asking what the agenda was or even asking for a copy of it. If they couldn’t provide this and said it was a brainstorming meeting or “oh I just wanted to chat about xyz” then I would use that information to determine whether or not it sounded like my presence was actually necessary or valuable. If I didn’t think that was the case, I would decline the meeting and say something like “it sounds like you still have a few things that need to be worked out before I will have any action items, so how about after the meeting you update me on the status and we can go from there.”

      I recall a particular situation where when I asked what the meeting was to be about it was that they wanted to hash out how something used to be done because they wanted to create a new process. Well… how it used to be done in this situation was really irrelevant. I told them that when they had plans for a new process and wanted to discuss, to go ahead to invite me to that meeting, but my workload didn’t afford me time for this one.

      Sometimes we feel obligated to accept every meeting just because it’s sent to us. Use the decline option with the “edit response before sending” option in Outlook (if that’s what you’re using) and just write a note that says “it doesn’t look like I will have much value to add on this subject and my current workload is pretty high so I’m afraid I won’t have the time to attend” or whatever, and leave it at that. If the person has a good reason for you being there, this is their opportunity to spell that out for you.

      But really, ask for agendas. And don’t be afraid to step in and take the bull by the horns. If people start getting into the minutia of something and it isn’t productive to your meeting, then pipe up and say “how about you guys discuss this offline.” If someone is taking 10 minutes to look up an answer, say “it sounds like maybe we don’t have everything we need to continue the discussion right now. How about you find out xyz and set up a new meeting when all the information is available.”

      You are not a hostage!

    4. Quinalla*

      We have a culture of no agenda, you aren’t required to attend the meeting. Now the agenda doesn’t have to be all formal for quick meetings, but I have zero problem pushing back a bit when invited to something that I’m not sure is something I am really needed for. So I will ask for an agenda or at least the purpose of the meeting and if it doesn’t sound like something I’m really needed for, I have no issue declining.

      I agree with others that you do need to give some leeway to folks that need the verbal/group processing of ideas, but they need to give you the same leeway to decline things as well when it isn’t going to be worth your time and you aren’t going to contribute.

      I too would mostly let the 2-3 minute technical difficulty at the beginning of the meeting go. Bring something to do while that is going on or catch up on something with others in the group. If it is longer than 2-3, I’d speak up to someone about it as that isn’t acceptable.

  63. it_guy*

    Got a problem with my W2 and wondered if are any options.
    In mid year, my office moved from one state to the other. It was only 15 miles, moves happens a lot, so now I live in one state and work in another.

    The problem is that my company changed payroll companies around the same time. Bottom line is they screwed the pooch and have totally messed it up for all of the folks who moved with me. It was a group of about 10 IT folks who were shifting locations to be closer to the new server room.

    In my W2, it only shows one state, which is the second state I worked in that year. But 3/4’s of that money was actually sent to the first state in their quarterly payments.

    Any suggestions on what to do on this? I’ve already talked to HR and they swore they would get me a revised W2 in 8 to 12 weeks. But I really don’t want to wait that long. I would like to just use the numbers for my last pay stub of the year, but I really don’t want to get audited.

    Any suggestions?

    2. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      Use your paystub.

      You won’t be audited, your company is playing fast and loose by giving themselves 8-12 weeks to fix their nonsense. They’re going to be audited, not you.

      Did you move to the new state??? You only pay taxes to the state you live in…not work in.

      1. tax hell*

        Be careful assuming that not paying taxes means not filing tax returns though – I live in DC and this is a pretty common scenario here. I work in MD and have to file a tax return in MD saying I don’t owe them money. Not pay them but confirm the income was earned.
        It’s possible the two states in it_guy’s scenario have similar rules.

        1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

          Right, you do need to fill out non-resident forms. I should have mentioned that. Which means you still means you use your pay-stub for all the information needed.

          Because your SSN is being reported to the state as you’re working there and they don’t have your home address liked to it often. They need you to tell them that.

      2. Natalie*

        Really, really unlikely they would audited for this. IRS & SSA don’t start comparing notes until August, so as long as they submit correct W2s between now and then they just have to pay a penalty per correction.

      3. it_guy*

        The federal numbers are correct, but I live in MO and _now_ work in KS, and even though they’ve paid 3 quarters of the state money to MO, they are reporting it as all going to KS. So if I file a return with KS saying they have to pay all this money, it won’t be all there.

        I have to actually fill out two state returns and an additional form telling KS to pay MO.

        1. valentine*

          Email the MO state tax office saying you’d like to avoid late fees and asking what they suggest.

  64. Dorothy Parka*

    Does anyone have any advice on negotiating family leave at a job you already have? (Full disclosure, I am not pregnant but I am a Planner(tm).
    I work at a very small institution in the US–way too small for FMLA to be a factor–and I’m hoping to start a family with my partner in the near future. Management is very invested in keeping me here and after some recent turnover (3 people left which is about half our staff), I have the most institutional knowledge aside from our ED at a whopping 3 years and change and it would be difficult to keep the doors open if one more person were to leave.
    At the very least, a guarantee that I could keep my job after a normal 12 weeks leave would be essential to keep me from finding something else in the near future.

    So my question is how do I broach this conversation? When do I broach this conversation? If they agree to give me the leave, is there anything that could keep them from replacing me if it became more convenient?

    As an aside, my industry is heavily female, but after the recent turnover, I’m the only woman on staff aside from our ED who is retiring within the year. Things are starting to feel a bit like a boys club and no one else is in a similar life stage as me which I think has me more anxious than I would be otherwise.

    1. WellRed*

      Twelve weeks leave (unpaid) is pretty normal. Do you have reason to suspect it might be an issue at your job.
      PS. Love your user name.

      1. Dorothy Parka*

        Mostly that they’re small enough that there’s no legal obligation to provide it and there aren’t any policies in place. I don’t think it’s been applicable to anyone who’s worked here in the last 10 years

        1. WellRed*

          No legal obligation, but if they want to hire and retain good employees, and are otherwise a good company, they should work with you on this. We have had several maternity leaves in the past few years. We are fewer than 20 people. Good luck!

    2. fposte*

      Another lover of the username!

      I would bring it up during your next serious discussion about retention/you or year-end review, unless you thought it might be relevant earlier. “Leave possibilities are important to me. Since we’re not covered by FMLA, would the org be willing to extend equivalent leave to employees?”

  65. The Other Dawn*

    I’m going for an interview on Monday. It turns out that the person I’d report to, if I get the job, is someone who is very friendly with my ex-boss. Ex-boss was a Type A personality, a micromanager, could be very condescending to most people and was just really tough to work for. I liked her as a person, but could NEVER work for her, or someone like her, again. Aside from having her as a boss, the job wasn’t the right fit, most employees seemed miserable, and I just didn’t care for the culture. After being in another job for almost 20 years, I was at this particular job for 10 months and finally got out. I’ve been at my current job for four years, but the company was acquired and my job was made redundant.

    My question is: how do I explain why I left that 10-month job? Given that the person I’m interviewing with knows ex-boss well, at least professionally, I have to assume the interviewer will call ex-boss. I was honest with ex-boss that the job wasn’t the right fit at all, so it’s not as though I lied to her; she knew I was miserable. Also, I moved further away seven months into the job, so I wanted something closer. But the main reason I left was her and the type of job it was. And I don’t know if my interviewer would have picked up on ex-boss’s less desirable traits (some people in the industry have definitely picked up on it, while others haven’t).

    1. The Other Dawn*

      Also, how do I feel out my potential new manager for the same kinds of traits I disliked so much in my ex-boss?

      1. Wishing You Well*

        For finding out your potential boss’s style, ask her, “How would your employees describe your management style?”
        (It might help to know that even though she’s friendly with your ex-boss, that doesn’t mean she knows or approves of your ex-boss’s management style. She might, but it’s not a given.)

        1. The Other Dawn*

          Another good question, thanks! Yes, there are lots of people who are friendly with her, but tell me “I could NEVER work with her!”

      2. leya*

        oof, that’s really tough! in terms of explaining the gap: you mention that there were other reasons, besides the boss, why the job wasn’t a fit so i would focus on that. even if this interviewer didn’t know your boss, it may not reflect well on you to focus only on your manager being the reason you left (even if it would be totally warranted, it’s generally not a good look). and i believe alison has discussed good ways to suss out what kind of a manager someone is. i don’t remember verbatim, but i would say good questions would be asking what their expectations are in for the role, how they see the role working within the organization as a whole, and how they would measure success. good questions in general, but i think that would get to the heart of what you’re trying to find out. if i find any of alison’s relevant posts i’ll come back with links.

        good luck on monday and in your search in general!

        1. The Other Dawn*

          Oh, no, I’d definitely never talk about her being a micromanager, etc.! It’s just tough because they know each other so I don’t want to even hint at anything having to do with the fact that I couldn’t stand her as a boss. She’s very well known in the industry within our state, and I do think that lots of people that know her can tell what she’s really like just by how she interacts at seminars and other events, on boards, etc., but that’s definitely not a given that this person sees her that way.

  66. Works in IT*

    Just learned that my workplace gives bonuses to people who don’t use sick leave, in the form of converting the sick leave into pto at the end of the year.

    Apparently none of the higher ups at the organization were aware of this fact until my manager pointed it out to them. I tried pointing out that this disincentivizes people from calling out sick when they really should call out sick (nurses should be allowed to stay home if they are sick!) but my coworkers/manager dismissed this as “it’s not punishing the people who call out sick it’s rewarding the people who don’t call out at the last minute and make managers call other people in to work overtime covering their shift”. And now apparently the ceo thinks this is a great idea and we should “advertize this perk”

    I have no control over whether this very much not a perk gets advertised to outsiders, but… is there anything I can do about my team members’ wrong headedness? I don’t understand why my otherwise bright coworkers are failing to grasp the concept of “why would I take a sick day when I could work that day AND get vacation time next year?”.

    1. Utoh!*

      Ha! At my company, if you have “perfect attendance” you are invited to a breakfast and are presented with a check! I work with a guy has probably been to this breakfast since he started here over 10 years ago, he barely takes vacation (1/2 days only) and never any sick days, even when he is clearly sick. You can bet I will NEVER be invited to that breakfast, at this point in my career, my time is worth far more than a few pancakes and a check!

    2. fposte*

      I don’t think I’d push it as a perk, but the ability to translate unused sick leave into something beneficial is pretty common, and I don’t think I’d choose this as a battle to fight.

    3. Beth Jacobs*

      It’s basically a spin on a shared vacation & sick leave bucket, which is not terribly uncommon, although I understand your concerns.

  67. Justin*

    I know I’m weird, but does it strike anyone else as… self-explanatory that my neighbor coworkers loudly talk about how little they want to be at work… and that they are also the lowest performers?

    The man next to me is always saying that we should have a three-day work week (which, let’s not get into a discussion about overworked Americans, please), despite sitting close to the managers, and is one of the very outspoken “it’s quittin’ time” folks. I judge no one for prioritizing other things over work (I would much rather be a full-time student than this current job!), but… this is the same guy who was mad that I got promoted despite being there a shorter time than him, and the other people he sits near are… bringing up the relative rear, as well.

    I don’t really have a question, just wondering how they aren’t noticing this.

    This is hardly a whip cracking place. We are very flexibile on time off and leave and so forth. You need to go to the doctor, you just go. Etc etc. It’s not perfect and it can be kinda boring. But I just wonder how you might think openly complaining about being present will reflect positively upon you.

    1. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      They notice.

      Unless it is disruptive though, there’s not really much to do about it. Nor, as a manager, am I going to spend much effort on it. Here’s where it does come into play though. Just like you were promoted in a shorter time than him, you will likely also be given better and more opportunities. Your performance appraisals are likely to be better.

      The above not only goes for ‘Mr. Quit’n Time Guy’ but also for ‘Ms. Debby Downer’, ‘Mr. Not My Job’, and ‘Ms. Slacks-a-lot’

        1. valentine*

          I would be looking to leave if my manager were happy for me to listen to morale-plummeting crap all day.

    2. ..Kat..*

      Some people get into a complaining habit at work (or other places). This is how they bond/interact with coworkers and it becomes a habit. I have fallen into this habit myself in the past. What I found for me personally (and later read about in research summaries) is that frequent complaining makes me LESS happy.

  68. Doc in a Box*

    How to convince my division chief that medical education is important?

    I am a physician in a large academic medical center, first faculty job out of training, and I envision my career developing principally as an educator. In addition to the MD I have a masters degree in medical humanities and have done a lot of work developing curricula along the lines of doctor-patient relationship, empathy, communication skills. One of my “hats” at this university is to develop a certificate/masters level program in medical humanities here. Huge interest from the medical and graduate students.

    However at my mid-year review yesterday with my new division chief, it turns out she thinks this is all a “hobby” and that I need to see more patients/generate more revenue. I’m trying to figure out how to reduce the number of no-shows and short term cancellations so that the bean counters are happy, but some of this is out of my hands. (For instance, at the beginning of the week, today was a full clinic of 10 patients; however by this morning 6 had cancelled and my first one today no-showed.) Her suggestion was to double-book, which I had doing because it just means all your patients have to wait interminably.

    During the meeting, when she made the “hobby” comment, I was like, “well no this is not just a hobby, I came to this university specifically because of what was on offer in terms of teaching and the humanities” and pointed out all my publications in that area since August when I was hired (6 peer reviewed articles + 2 more submitted + 3 abstracts and 4 invited talks at conferences this spring and summer) but she was dismissive saying that it must be leftover stuff from my previous institution (one of them was leftover, but the rest were all written up since starting here). I did get the humanities stuff written into the offer letter I signed (and very glad now that I did!) but my contract is up for renegotiation in 2020…..

    1. Lavender Menace*

      First of all, hooray for you for doing this! I have a PhD in a medical social sciences field and studied patient-provider relationships as part of my research and what you’re doing was, for a short period of time, a sort of a dream job for me. (Short because I realized that without an MD and/or significant biomedical research I was really, really unlikely to do it, lol.)

      With that said, how receptive is your division chief to research? Not just you doing research, but research findings. There is quite a bit of literature out there from researchers across medicine and the humanities showing that the kinds of things you want to develop in the med students at your university actually help patients and could lead to greater retention of patients in the long run. Things like long wait times due to patient overbooking, poor patient-provider communication, and tenuous relationships with providers mean patients discontinue care and stop showing up.

      I mean, I know I’m probably preaching to the choir here and given that you develop these curricula you probably already know all of this, so do you think your division chief would be receptive to seeing this research laid out factually and you stating that you’re simply trying to help your center provide better care and retain patients?

      1. Doc in a Box*

        Honestly, I think she is just interested in the finances. I get that she has to deal with a balance sheet or funds flow or whatever. I hear what she is saying, that teaching is unfunded — although seriously, students are paying through the nose in tuition, I have no clue what happens to that money which ought to be earmarked academic? She essentially presented my options as (1) Getting an NIH grant or similar award — which then comes with caveats about how your time can be used — or (2) see more patients. (#3, unstated, would be to take a 40-50% paycut.)

        I think if we get the certificate/masters program approved by the provost (highly likely, per the grapevine) and I have a leadership role like program director, that would keep me “safe” at least a couple days a week, especially if there is a transfer of funds from the University side to the Medical side to account for that portion of my salary. But there’s a fair amount of uncertainty regarding how that funds transfer would work, so I want to figure out a way to pre-emptively convince her that this is worth funding. The suggestion to look at metrics about patient satisfaction and going to our competitors is a good one — thank you!

        1. AnonAcademic*

          I’ve been in a similar position except in my case I’m a non-clinician researcher at a med school who was being pushed to spend more time on patient recruitment for studies and less on my own research. My best answer is that money talks – if you can get a small grant, or a consultant role on someone else’s grant, that will cover even 10% of your salary that will give you protected time to work on research. Otherwise, I think you’ll find it continues to be an uphill battle if the institutional pressure is for you to be 100% clinical.

    2. Savannnah*

      Does your institution have a Simulation/standardized pt program? I am a assistant director of a hospital based Sim program and would kill for someone like you at our network. We have a few faculty who are sympathetic to your ‘hobby’ but who also get caught up in revenue stats. The best long term goal would be for you to get your manager to see that pt communication, dr-pt relationships are key to the very problem of pt call outs, continuity of care and revenue. (Not to mention burn out, team dev, functional rounding etc) If she’s suggesting double booking…that’s 3 steps back from where she needs to be. A good sim program should provide CME credits to your team on these issues, partner with you on your objectives, maybe help you carve out some protected teaching time.

  69. Time to get that arranged marriage my parents want*

    So I’m VERY underpaid as an assistant at an arts center. I make $10/hr. A bunch of stuff is happening in the organization and I’m about to get more responsibility. (Basically, two of the three most involved people in the organization other than me – my boss and the board president – are leaving.)

    I’m going to ask for a raise, but the question is, how much? Other than what I ‘deserve’, I need to keep in mind that it’s an art center – they don’t have much money to give. On the other hand, I would never apply for a job that pays so little as I make now. Is 13/hr too much? (It’s a 30% raise, but I feel like that hardly means anything when I’m making so little.)

    1. KR*

      I think depending on your location and responsibilities 13-15 is a very fair raise to ask for. Start with 15-17 and be prepared to go down to 13 or 14 if you think that’s the most realistic number for your budgets and industry. But if you ask for 17 you might get it.

      1. Time to get that arranged marriage my parents want*

        I’m pretty sure my boss right now makes less than $25 an hour, so I feel like I should keep my number low. I’ll ask for $15 to start with and accept anything they give me lol.

        1. KR*

          Yass good idea. Then after you kick butt with your new responsibilities you can ask for even more money next year :P

    2. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      I need to know more before I can weigh in.

      Who does the jobs or similar tasks and how much do they make?

      What are compatibles for other non profit companies in the area?

      What’s the wage budget?

      $3 an hour for full time is $6240 just in wages a year. Then your taxes are on top of that. And insurances they carry that are based on wages (workers comp, unemployment etc).

      $3 an hour is easily asking for almost another 10k out of the budget.

      You’re grossly underpaid but I come from the land of $15 minimum wage…

      1. Time to get that arranged marriage my parents want*

        No one does jobs or similar tasks – the only two positions in this organization are director (my boss) and assistant (me – note, I’m not necessarily an assistant to the director, but to the whole organization).

        I don’t know what the wage budget is. I live in a relatively high COL area (northeast, but not in a city) where other places would pay 30K – 35K for the type of work I do. Keep in mind, I don’t work full-time – with all these changes, I’m hoping to just get up to a steady 20 hours a week.

        2. ..Kat..*

          Well, 30K per year = $14.42 per hour.

          35K per year = $16.82 per hour.

          It sounds fair to ask for $20 per hour if you are taking on additional duties.

          Good luck.

  70. Still Standing (yeah yeah yeah)*

    I am so burnt out.

    –My mentor and one of my favorite bosses ever just retired last week.
    –Overall turnover has doubled in the last six months…feels like everyone is leaving.
    –My favorite aunt (and the last of my mother’s siblings) passed away last week after a horrific fight with Lewy Body Dementia. I’m struggling to make it through the days without bursting into tears, yet my boss wants me to suss out why my “problem employee” can’t seem to show up to work on time and leaves early.
    –I feel like no one is working towards the mission of our nonprofit anymore.
    –I had what I thought was a great interview last month, but I haven’t heard back yet.
    –I just found out who is going to our annual conference–a group of people who aren’t going to bring back anything useful and will treat it like an extended vacation.
    –I’m stuck in another meeting that’s probably going to last until this afternoon about….nothing.

    I’m in therapy and I’m trying to be kind to myself but…sheesh. I’ll take e-hugs if you’ve got ’em.

    1. DC*

      I’m sending you SO MANY e-hugs and sympathy. It’s okay to take extra leave at a time like this, make yourself your priority.

    2. Harriet J*

      Sending e-hugs, Jedi-hugs, virtual hot chocolate and anything else you need.
      Please post next week, even if your update is that you are still burned out.

        1. JaneB*

          Yup! Internet strangers are sending you internet cooties so you have to call out! You need some time! And virtual hugs from me too…

  71. Anonandanon*

    Just venting…I’m at the end of my rope with a particular coworker. He’s a nice guy, and works hard, but just can’t seem to grasp (or ignores?) certain job responsibilities. We all have one day a week where we are the primary person on the phones, so we answer the phones, try to initially assist the user but if it goes over about 10 minutes, we take the information and create a ticket and get back to the user. Additionally, you should also be able to pick up the (one) other line if it rings, putting the original caller on hold temporarily. If you need to step away from your desk, you need us know, so we can cover the phones during that time. He a) cannot answer more than one call at a time, b) spends an inordinate amount of time with the caller instead of taking the information and getting back to them, c) never tells anyone where he’s going, he just disappears and the phones go unanswered, unless someone happens to think to pick it up. I have no idea how to talk to him about this because I feel no matter what I say (or our supervisor says, and reiterates) there is no change. He does other things and just gets away with them (he is never in on time, except his phone day, and is always disappearing). He does not communicate with us what is going on as far as changes to hardware for users (that’s his primary area of expertise) so I am at the BEC stage with him, but really I just want out of this team. I’ve been with the company for 15 years, and will be semi-retiring in 3-4 years (moving to another state and expect to get another job there), and there just aren’t any other internal opportunities here (very limited career path due to company size). I also have a pension (and 401K w/6% match) so wanted to stay as long as possible to get the most of that benefit. Just sucking it up for now, but I’m thinking I might get some headphones so I am not so hyper-focused on things like this! I do enjoy most of my job, as it’s interesting (IT), but the day to day stuff that a trained monkey could do is eating away at me…

    1. Not So NewReader*

      1) Tell your boss there is no change. Keep saying it.
      2) If you have any PTO, take some time off. Let them deal with each other and you can take a break from it.
      3) Figure out where you would go if you could get off this team.
      4) The repetition is a killer, I do know that. How are your personal goals? I would suggest beefing up your personal short term goals. Create something in your life that you look forward to. This can be anything. As the day drags on you can tell yourself, “Tonight I will work on goal x some more. I almost got this and then I can move to goal y.”

      1. valentine*

        If he finds task switching, ending conversations, and leaving things undone extremely difficult, I can see where he just cannot break his focus or maybe thinks putting person 1 on hold is rude, and doesn’t stop and ticket because he thinks he’ll be done any second now or that ticketing is a strike against him.

        But this is a management problem. Go to them when he impacts your work. Learn not to care about what he’s getting away with. Stick to your sphere of influence. Is there a simpler job you can switch you for the remainder of your time?

        1. Anonandanon*

          Yes, he has a hard time with multi-tasking, even when we are in a meeting, and we’ve just had a discussion, he’ll ask a question that was literally just answered. And when I ask him a question, his responses are very off-base (and it’s not just me, others have the same experience). He’s a smart guy, and is very customer-focused, but just really scattered or something…can’t quite put my finger on it. He also refuses help with projects, so they take much longer than necessary, and we are out of the loop, until he’s so far behind we have to step in. I’m good at that as I can see the whole picture and understand what needs to be done but it’s frustrating to be pulled into yet another project.

      2. Anonandanon*

        Hi NSNR, thanks for the tips, very good to have goals, even personal ones which I need to really start focusing on. I will be taking a 2 week vacation in March, and thankfully can fully disconnect as I don’t check my emails and everyone knows not to call me (though I’m sure there will be plenty for me to do when I return). There is another team in the same department I’d love to join, I really like the manager and the work is interesting but unless someone leaves, there is no place for me. I have been putting my toe more into the type of work they do so who knows… It helped to vent and with my review coming up in the next two weeks, I’ll make sure to mention this situation to my manager. She told me that she had a 20 minute conversation with him, but it has not changed much if at all.

  72. Leslie Knope*

    I just had an experience with a vendor that left me feeling pretty meh. This vendor supplies printing services and I decided to try her out to order business cards. She was pretty pushy but seemed nice, and she promised a quick turnaround and reasonable prices (compared to some of the other vendors I was considering). Based on how everything went with the business cards, I was considering using her to print some items for my upcoming wedding next month.

    It took her a while to get the business card proofs to me… I honestly was not in a huge rush, so at the time I didn’t see it as a red flag. She emailed me about 1.5 weeks after I sent her the artwork and said something along the lines of “Oops I didn’t realize you hadn’t seen the proofs yet!” I approved the proofs, and then about a week later she sent me an invoice and asked if I could pay with credit card. I opened the invoice and noted the terms said “Net 30” at the bottom. I let her know we preferred to issue a check because we are using our company credit card for expenses related to a big upcoming event.

    After I emailed her regarding payment, another couple days pass and she responds basically saying “since this is the first time can you please just pay with a credit card?” Admittedly she emailed me at the worst possible time – I was stressed out dealing with some other things at work. The issue with the credit card is that we are a start-up and it doesn’t have a very high limit, and I was planning on using it for other more time sensitive expenses. I was frustrated with this vendor and replied and let her know I would need to check with accounting as I had not anticipated needing to use a credit card for this project. It ended up being fine and I just paid the invoice with our card today.

    I am annoyed that this vendor did not discuss payment terms up front. I have worked with several printing companies over the years (and we work with a different one for other projects right now), and every other company has had similar net 30 terms. I don’t like that this vendor didn’t explain her expectations about payment to me until after the project had nearly been completed, however I could have been more proactive and brought it up.

    Am I blowing this whole thing out of proportion? I don’t really want to work with her again, and I anticipate (due to her pushy nature) I will hear from her asking if there is anything else she can “help us with.” Is it appropriate for me to convey that I wasn’t really happy with this experience, particularly due to poor communication about payment?

      1. valentine*

        Just tell her you were unhappy with the delay and won’t be using her again. When she insisted on a credit card (I hope you didn’t tell her the reason), you could’ve said no and insisted on a check.

        In future, sign a contract upfront with benchmarks that allow you to cancel and part ways, if desired. Be proactive about what’s important to you. Don’t assume the vendor is on the same page about anything.

    2. Susie Q*

      I think you both made mistakes. She could have made payment terms clear but at the same time you could have made your payment terms clear.

      Honestly I would let this one go.

    3. Drax*

      Yes and no. The blindsiding you with it, and not correcting you within 24 hours of you requesting a cheque is very annoying but depending on the industry (and occasionally company / economy based) it’s actually fairly normal that your first 1-5 orders are cash sales until you are extended credit.

      But at the same time, I’d be annoyed with someone being pushy after promising quick turn around and not delivering, and then on top of that pulling the payment thing. I personally would be annoyed enough to avoid doing business with her unless she offered a significant discount to other companies.

    4. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain*

      I wonder if the exceptionally long turn around time is part of the reason why she was pushing for CC payment. You were probably thinking “30 days from date of invoice received or delivery” (which to be clear is a reasonable expectation — you did receive the cards before she invoiced, right?) and she’s operating under “30 days from job start/artwork received” so that 1.5 weeks for proof + 1 week for invoice + another couple days between email and response and at this point it’s been about 3 weeks and they’re itching to get paid.

      But aside from the invoicing issue…I would be fuming on 1.5 weeks for a proof! Most of my proofs — even on a magazine let alone business cards! — are max 48 hours. For that reason alone, I would never do business with this printer again — but you also dropped the ball a bit for not following up.

  73. Moths*

    I recently received a significant bonus at work, which is standard for most employees. The cleaning crew who works in our building is a contract company and so is not eligible for the bonuses that we receive. However, they always go above and beyond in their work (and I would hope that they are fairly compensated). I would like to give thank you cards to the cleaning crew that works in our area, with a gift card or some cash inside, to thank them personally for all that they do. I intended to do this around the holidays, but ran out of time to make it happen. I don’t always see all of the crew each day and there are often several people who rotate through. I’m not sure how many are in the crew throughout the entire building. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to do this and avoid missing any employees in the crew? Should I make enough cards for everyone that works on the cleaning crew (even if that’s many more than the handful who usually seem to be in our department)? Or should I not do this at all because I might miss someone or it would be inappropriate? I don’t want to cause bad feelings or insult anyone, but I would also like to take some of benefits that I have received and share them with others!

    1. Susie Q*

      Honestly, I would not do this. First the contractors might not be allowed to accept gifts for work done. Second, there is a hazy blurred line that could be confused as your company doing this, not you. Third, again as you mentioned you might miss people, etc especially since you do not have access to employee lists, etc. Overall, its very generous of you to think of this but it is not your place and I think this could complicated things with these contractors. If you want to do something good with your extra money, make donations to charitable organizations.

      1. valentine*

        I wouldn’t do this, and Susie Q’s reasons are all great ones I hadn’t thought of, especially the first two. You’d be acting as an agent of your company, even if this is from you personally.

    2. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      Admirable, but don’t do it.

      At the absolute most (but still weird and I wouldn’t advise it), you could try to work something out with whoever supervises the crew, and try to coordinate some type of group food thing (donuts/bagels/etc). The other thing you can do is to let the supervisor know when someone does go above and beyond specifically with details and names.

    3. Anonforthis*

      I think instead, you should check with whoever oversees the cleaning crew and ask if there is something you can do for them as a group. They may not be allowed to accept gifts/cash from clients.

    4. Kathenus*

      Kudos for wanting to do this, and for thinking of them. I agree with Anonforthis that checking with someone from the contractor as to how to achieve this is a good idea. Depending on the culture of your job and your position, you might want to also check first to see if it’s OK for you to reach out to them. Maybe whoever at your organization is the liaison for the contractors could help you get the information you need. Hopefully there is some way you can get each of them some type of gift, but if for some reason you can’t I think a heartfelt note of thanks would also go a long way to show your appreciation.

    5. Natalie*

      Check with the supervisor. It’s possible they can’t accept gifts but it’s also totally possible they can, or that there are rules like “only gift cards” or “only around holidays”. And the supervisor can tell you how many people and make sure they all get their gift card or whatever.

  74. SadMidwesterner*

    I went to get lunch out of the office yesterday (second time I’ve done so in the nine months I’ve worked here) and while I was gone, my boss apparently asked my coworkers “if I was in today.” We had MULTIPLE one-on-one conversations before I left to eat, and she sits IN EYESIGHT OF MY DESK. I am actually invisible to her.

    1. Susie Q*

      My boss has done this. I literally went to the bathroom and he acted like I had been gone for half the morning. I had been gone for five minutes (at the most).

    2. IEL*

      Last Friday my boss asked me if I knew what had happened to our intern who had been absent all week. I had to remind her that the intern had worked Monday to Thursday, that on Thursday the three of us (me, intern, boss) had a meeting all afternoon, and after our meeting the intern had asked and received permission to take a day off for a medical thing. Boss said “okay then” but I don’t think she remembered a single thing I was talking about.

    3. pleaset*

      If she does this to people in general it’s no big deal. Some people don’t keep simple stuff like this in memory, either intentionally (to clear space in the mind) and/or due to weak memories.

      And given the fact that you almost never go out of the office to lunch, her question makes even more sense.

      If she only does stuff like this in relation to you, it’s concerning.

      1. SadMidwesterner*

        It’s definitely mostly me. And I’m out of my desk/the office a lot- on site visits, in meetings, or even when I book a room to work in quiet. She’s just extremely self-centered and scatterbrained, and she only notices someone when they fuck up, so days go by without her noticing me :(

    4. I See Real People*

      This has happened to me before too. Some years ago, had a boss who would send me on an errand in another building on the hospital campus, and then go talk with one of our department directors and ask if I had come in that day. He was an older gentleman and I couldn’t figure out if he had forgotten he sent me, was testing the director on her daily awareness of office happenings, or just dissing me. It was weird.
      I haven’t thought about this in years, so I’ll be curious to hear what others have to say about this as well.

  75. londonedit*

    Not a question, really, more of a vent, but I hope you’ll indulge me! I’m on a temporary contract, covering for someone, and people are starting to talk about when the person I’m covering for might come back. Could be two months, could be maximum three.

    Of course I knew this when I took the job – it was always a temporary contract. But the trouble is that I work on a very small team, and my colleagues and I have formed a really fantastic working relationship. We’re all quite new and the department was a bit of a mess when the person I’m covering for left, but since then we’ve all worked together and turned things around and we’re doing great work. The bosses love our attitude, our teamwork and the work we’re producing. Everyone wants to keep me on, but unfortunately the budget doesn’t allow for an extra person, and the person I’m covering for is legally entitled to come back to the job they had before. I’ve just been keeping the seat warm (although I don’t think it’s blowing my own trumpet too much to say I’ve done more than that!)

    So basically…everyone is really sad that I’m leaving, including me! There is talk of trying to find room for me in a different part of the company, until such time as budget allows for an extra person or until someone else in the department leaves and I can move across again, but realistically I also need to be looking out for other jobs. And there isn’t much out there at the moment!

    In other news, I thought you’d all like to know that upmarket UK supermarket Waitrose is offering actual chocolate teapots as part of its Easter range.

    1. JaneB*

      …and now I need to go to Waitrose and buy a chocolate teapot. And possibly mail one to Alison…

      1. Hamburke*

        too bad there’s no Waitrose stateside – there’d be run on it much like the Aldi wine Advent calendar…

  76. Fuzzy pink*

    Thoughts on job searching when I’ve been recently promoted? I was promoted 2 months ago, but the raise I received was negligible and my salary just wont be financially doable for me for long-term. My company only allows raises with promotions and otherwise does a flat less than COL increase each year, so over time my purchasing power will go down. I’m planning on selectively job searching (I love what I do and the work environment, except for this compensation nonsense so I’m not in a huge rush). Will it seem weird or hard to explain that I’m job searching a few months after a promotion? How should I handle it?

    1. EmilyG*

      I don’t think it will seem weird. I think it will look like you’re undervalued and the company knows it but isn’t able/willing to do much about it, and you know it too.

  77. directionless*

    I emailed a version of this to Alison three weeks ago and haven’t gotten a reply, so I’m assuming that it’s safe to post here…
    Basically, I’m wondering how to find work/a career path when I don’t have a serious passion or notable talent and I’m mostly concerned with quality of life. I’m in my early 30s, graduated from undergrad with an architecture degree that I’ve never used and don’t want to, and have spent a decade mostly bouncing around in the service industry. I’m ready to get out, to have a stable income, and work in a better environment. But there are certain things about my current work and lifestyle that I don’t totally want to give up, or at least want to feel like they’re worth losing. I enjoy having a flexible schedule, being up on my feet and active/outdoors, and having a lot of variety in my day-to-day. Other priorities for me are: not being in a front/customer-facing role, being able to work in a small team setting, and having a decent amount of structure. Things I know I don’t want in a job include: working with children, in government, doing medical care, self-employment, manual labor, and boys clubs.
    But what does all this add up to? I’m reasonably smart and feel capable of learning a wide range of skills. I am open to going back to school or something. But I don’t have any idea of where or how to start exploring options that might fit these criteria. Where do I start? Are there resources that I should know about?

    1. Even Steven*

      Happy Friday! I might have an idea for you. It’s a pretty huge rabbit hole to go down, but this government website listed below has a bajillion job descriptions for you to browse and explore to narrow down what to do next. It is not a listing of government jobs, but is a general info clearing house about all kinds of jobs, and is hosted by the Dept of Labor. Especially check out the “I want to be a…” box on the right side of the screen. That’s a great rabbit hole of ideas!

      The O*Net Online:
      https://www.onetonline.org/

      And my goodness, you are in no way directionless! Look at all the great things you know about yourself – your strengths & your preferences! Knowing what you don’t want is just as valuable as knowing what you do. You are on your way!

      1. directionless*

        Thanks, this was a very kind response! I’ll dig through that database. I think where it feels difficult is that job descriptions don’t necessarily tell you what the realities of daily work will be… that’s what happened with the architecture path for me. But hopefully it can get me started looking!

    3. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      My heart froze a minute when I read that you’re trying to transition from service into a stable setup. Most places won’t look at you favorably unless you cut your teeth on some kind of admin or intern kind of gig. You don’t have the fresh schooling on your side and sadly most hiring managers are too conservative to take chances on what can be seen as transferable skills.

      You could learn operations management or production management if you want to work up but without being open to manual labor, that’s difficult to cut in at the management level.

      Records management and clerical work can be easy to live in a back-office no customers world but you’re not out and about like you are thinking about.

      Again it all requires to be looking for entry level positions within hiring companies.

      1. directionless*

        Like I said, I’m open to going back to school, as well as internships, volunteer work, etc. I don’t think it’ll be a simple transition, but thankfully I’m not in a huge rush and my livings costs are low so I can be flexible with the kinds of work I take.

    4. Grace Less*

      Look st ENR magazine’s Top Design Firms (top 400 nationally, but preferably find the smaller regional list for your area). Check the job boards for those firms to see what peaks your interest. Maybe technical writing, maybe forensic work, maybe historic preservation? Tons of options that would be primarily internal (non-public-facing), and could build off of elements of your education that you might have enjoyed.

      1. Finally Back In A 'Proper Job'*

        It sounds like the culture of the place you work is more important to you than the role itself (within reason of course), so that you have guidance and structure but also autonomy and some flexibility in your hours.

        I have a friend who was in a very similar situation to you recently. He had been in one industry for 20 years and really wanted a big change but didn’t really know where to start.

        Instead of looking for roles, we researched companies local to him which looked like they would be a good culture fit for him, and then looked through/kept an eye on the roles they were recruiting for. It took a bit of time for the right company and role to come up, but he got there.

        I don’t know where you are based but in the UK, The Times publish ‘best places to work’ lists (split out by size of company, but you can also search geographically). We started there.

        The good thing about great companies to work for is they tend to have great recruitment practices so they look at transferable skills as well as direct role experience so making the move from service to another industry that little bit easier too.

  78. Ms. Taylor Sailor*

    This is more to vent than needing actual advice, but I’m about to lose my mind.

    I’m an admin in a very specialized department at a state institution. Due to the nature of my office, there is a lot of downtime. Often, two of my coworkers, Wednesday and Thursday, who have different jobs from me, are alone in the office with me and are INSUFFERABLE. They bitch and moan endlessly about everything (their jobs, most of the people who work here, etc.) and have no qualms about doing it in front of me. I hate it, but I have zero interest in rocking the boat and I’m about to leave (hopefully soon, but that’s a totally separate issue).

    However, I nearly lost it today. They started talking about how unattractive they think the head of our organization is and that she likes Friday, our grandboss, and favors her because she’s “easy on the eyes.” (The head of our organization is openly gay and married.)

    I’m absolutely disgusted by this. I’m not crazy for hating this right?

      1. valentine*

        Rock the boat. Make it onerous enough they’ll stop or leave. Don’t be their captive audience. They can always turn it around on you and say you said those things (gross regardless of anyone’s sexuality or marital status) or that you agreed. That’ll be tougher to do if you cultivate a reputation of not tolerating this.

  79. Lavender Menace*

    Hey y’all!

    I’m a new manager – like really really new, like within the last month new. Yay! It’s something that I’ve wanted for a while so I’m happy about the promotion and about working with my new team of directs. My job is also really great about training up people for new roles, so I’ve had various leadership positions and pseudo-management type roles for the past year and a half or so to ramp up to this moment. And my team has a lot of caring, experienced senior managers from whom I can seek out mentorship and support. Hooray! I’m confident that I can handle it…in the long term.

    But right now, I am really stressed out and terrified! I’m transitioning into new work while transitioning off the old work and I just feel really overwhelmed. Is this normal???! I just need reassurance that this is normal.

    1. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      It’s normal :)

      Add in the flashes of “OMG… what were they thinking letting me make decisions like this” and “Oh shit…they’re asking me questions and expecting me to know what I’m doing” and you pretty much described everyone’s first management role.

      When in doubt… think of the manager or boss that you thought would handle the situation or question and say what they would say. Pretty soon the role will feel comfortable and you will have found and trust your own voice.

      1. Lavender Menace*

        All of that! All of it. Especially the “omg why are you asking me oh yeah that’s right I’m a manager now.”

        Thanks for the advice and reassurance, I appreciate it!

    2. Sleepytime Tea*

      Very normal! And honestly it’s good that you worry, because it means that you care, and you’re not just going to walk in and be a crazy dictator.

    3. Amavelle*

      I’m in the same boat, down to the timeline, and I’m definitely in the same overwhelmed position. At my organization I’m mostly realizing how much stuff I’ve done that right now no one else knows how to do, and so I’m focusing on training to get some of those smaller things off my plate. This is normal, because transitions are overwhelming. We’ve got this!

  80. incompetemp's colleague*

    I shared earlier this week my adventures with the incompetemp at work. Since then, I discreetly spoke to my team lead and it turns out he’d just talked to her about needing to speed up. He’d assigned a task of putting 3 animal cracker boxes online, which takes roughly 40-50 mins each but if you do more than one at a time, it’s easy to streamline the process and get it done in about half the time, even less. I know this, because I single-handedly put up about 70 of those animal cracker boxes online in the span of 2-3 days. She’d been at it for a whole week. And wasn’t done.

    One thing I didn’t mention was that we’re all very friendly at work (it’s seriously a lovely place, and even with incompetemp, I’m still SUPER happy), and so, we all go out to lunch together every couple of months. No matter how much I try to avoid her, she always winds up sitting next to me. I’ve tried squeezing my way into the end of the booth, I’ve tried waiting to be the last to sit, I’ve tried sitting in the middle. Nada. She’s always next to me and oversharing. So far, she’s told me:

    – She was in a love triangle with a young 20-something rock singer and an older 60-something man.
    – The 60-something man had come down with leukemia and she was going to have to break up with him. (Said with teary eyes.)
    – The 20-something rocker cheated on her again.
    – Just, like, way too much information about her ex husband.
    – She used to sneak into the men’s barracks back in her days in the army to…uh…”cuddle” with a handsome soldier.

    And, look, it’s not that I’m socially inept or anything, but I never know how to respond to this kind of stuff. I just kind of smile and nod and don’t answer hoping she’ll take the hint, but I know my face can be expressive and I wonder if my annoyance is showing. Even IF I didn’t think these were all lies, I’d still have no clue how to respond to that kind of conversation.

    1. Murphy*

      I think this is one of those times to follow Alison’s advice of using it as entertainment. Because, wow.

        1. valentine*

          No. Gross.

          Her: Disgusting dregs.
          You: TMI. *changes the subject*

          Also: speak to literally anyone else, about literally anything else, so you at least have a competing conversation going. You can also break up the group into different tables/booths or not go.

      2. incompetemp's colleague*

        Yeah!

        To be fair, our workload isn’t such that I’m a heap of stress rocking in the corner. I’m perfectly fine where I am, it’s just…gosh, want an oddball.

    2. Seifer*

      That is… so weird. I can usually get away with a, ‘oh, I don’t really talk about that with my coworkers.’ and then immediately turning to someone else and asking about literally anything else. How are your tacos. Wasn’t your car in the shop. Do you think black is a color. Something Anything.

    4. revueller*

      First of all, glad to see you at the Friday free-for-all!

      Second of all, she’s definitely imprinted on you. Try being as disengaged as possible, responding only with “Wow,” “Crazy,” “Huh,” “How about that?” etc., and then immediately look away and duck into another conversation with anyone else. If she tries to interrupt and get your attention again, hold up your hand and say, “Sorry, XYZ was finishing her story and I was listening to her,” and then look away. Or bring someone else into your conversation. Talk about anything else. Find a lunch buddy who will rescue you whenever Incompetemp goes into weird territory. What you need to do basically is kindly bowl Incompetemp over. Sure, it’s not the most polite thing you can do to a bore, but it’s perfectly reasonable.

      1. incompetemp's colleague*

        Glad to be here with all you lovely ducks! :>

        I pretty much do that already since I don’t know what to say to her and am desperate to switch conversations, but I haven’t tried to tell her I’m talking to someone else. OH HO HO, I’ll try that next time!

        BTW every single one of these work lunches results in her saying, “You know…you know they say brandy makes you horny and gin makes you grin!” like it’s the cleverest joke ever.

    5. AnonAndOn Original*

      (Adding “Original” to my user name since I saw another person use it recently.)

      I’m sorry that you’re dealing with this incompetemp (I love that name for her). She sounds like a pain in the behind. And it seems as if these people are magnets to those who don’t want to be bothered with nonsense.

      I’d reiterate what people said above by acting bored/weirded out by what she says. I’m an introvert who constantly deals with chatty folks (people looking for a captive audience), and while they don’t say anything over the top like incompetemp does, they’ll prattle on. Because I can’t tell them to stop talking, I’ll give a polite smile and nod. I’ll throw in an “mm-hmm” too. Most of the time this type of polite indifference gets them to stop.

    6. Gumby*

      She’s clearly sitting next to you on purpose, so she’s getting something from you that she’s not getting from other people. Can you observe the behavior of people she avoids and, if it’s not outright rude, copy that? Basically, become less attractive as an audience.

      Also, can you involve other co-workers to give you a break every once in a while? It works for them if she follows you around because they don’t have to deal but it’s not really fair to you. Grab two friends who extra special promise to sit on either side of you and not budge.

  81. TryingToSuckItUp*

    I have a coworker who just doesn’t like me for some reason. I really don’t know why and I’ve never been able to figure out what I might have done. I’m perfectly fine with her ignoring me and I don’t go out of my way to talk to her, but I treat her like I do every other coworker. We aren’t anywhere near each other most of the time and we barely have to interact in our job. However, she frequently makes snide comments and talks about me to other coworkers. It isn’t high school bullying levels, but it does make me feel, well, shitty.

    I’ve talked to HR about this, she’s been talked to about not being a gossip, but HR is giving me the “be the bigger person and suck it up” speech. I get that she isn’t doing anything harmful and her negativity reflects mostly on her, but how on Earth do I deal with it? I hate the thought of her saying untrue things to other coworkers (most of which I also don’t interact with) and having them assume she’s right.

    I am I just being petty in having to be the bigger person here?

    1. Ms. Taylor Sailor*

      Ugh, I’m sorry you’re dealing with that. I can’t stand negativity either, but it’s awful if she is truly saying untrue things! I think that’s something reasonable to bring up to HR if you hear that she’s saying anything inflammatory and truly untruthful. That’s beyond “being the bigger person” and can be harmful and toxic. You can state it as a valid concern that you don’t want your professional relationships impacted by this, particularly if you ever hear it from someone you do interact with and may have to work with in the future. On the one bright side, if she has been talked to before, there’s hope that this message could also be delivered to her. However, if possible, wait until you hear something concrete that you can use as an example to bring to them.

      1. OP*

        Thank you! I told HR that I was going to continue to document things, but I highly doubt they will take action. There have been a few times where something has directly impacted my work and I was told not to worry, that they know I’m doing my job correctly. I guess that’s why it’s so frustrating, HR (and my boss) are assuring me that her attitude does not reflect on my job or me personally. But it’s really hard to just pretend that I don’t know what she’s saying about me.

    2. Sloan Kittering*

      TBH I’m not sure “being the bigger person” means going to HR. If she’s just chilly to you and vice versa, that sounds pretty typical and normal – not everybody is going to be friends at work. You’ve got her number if she’s the type to gossip, you should just be civil but cold back. Your revenge is that you don’t care about this person liking you and you think she’s a jerk. Not sure what HR would do, unless the thing she’s saying are like, straight libel or gender / race based or something?

      1. OP*

        It’s sort of hard to explain, it’s not that she’s making fun of me or anything. Some of the gossip and talk is directly impacting part of my job, as it relates to other coworkers. She’ll tell someone specifically NOT to come to me if they need something (that it’s my job to do). That coworker won’t and when the thing doesn’t get done, it looks as if I’m not doing part of my job. When I went to HR, they said they knew I was doing my job and not to worry about it, I wouldn’t get in trouble if things aren’t done.

        I just hate that it reflects on me anyway and that other people might believe her and assume I’m either careless or don’t do my job properly.

        1. Sloan Kittering*

          Ahh, thank you for explaining. Yes, in this case I think it makes perfect sense to raise it to higher ups, since it’s have a clear impact on the work.

        2. LQ*

          I had a coworker like this for a little while (she’s been demoted and moved elsewhere (to the wastelands)) I tried hard to be extremely polite and pleasant to her. But I also spent a bunch of time (and energy, so much energy) developing relationships with the other coworkers. It was a tremendous amount of work, but it paid off really well. I’m not good at being loud about my accomplishments (I suspect that would have helped with this problem and may help you if you can toot your own horn well) but I am good at being excited about a challenge, never ever backing down, and never saying I couldn’t do something. Which made all of her “LQ can’t do _” or “LQ won’t do _” sound incredibly hollow. Of course I could or would tackle something, anything. Give me a thing, heck don’t even give it to me but put it in front of me and I’ll do it/fix it/find a way.

          I would also get in front of it whenever possible. Over hear her say LQ won’t…Pop up and hey, I’ve been totally thinking about Thing and I could totally get that done by the end of the day! Slowly other people started to come to me in the first place or after she’d said a lie. Ok, lie. Go for it. I’ll prove you wrong every single time. Watch me.

          Also if HR/boss IS actually addressing it with her, the appropriate thing for them is not to actually tell you, but rather to fix the problem. So you can keep your fingers crossed that they are just slow.

      1. OP*

        (Reposting this from above)
        It’s sort of hard to explain, it’s not that she’s making fun of me or anything. Some of the gossip and talk is directly impacting part of my job, as it relates to other coworkers. She’ll tell someone specifically NOT to come to me if they need something (that it’s my job to do). That coworker won’t and when the thing doesn’t get done, it looks as if I’m not doing part of my job. When I went to HR, they said they knew I was doing my job and not to worry about it, I wouldn’t get in trouble if things aren’t done.

        I just hate that it reflects on me anyway and that other people might believe her and assume I’m either careless or don’t do my job properly.

        1. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

          I’d still tell her to knock it off. If she’s telling people not to go to you, and things aren’t getting done that’s on the person that’s listening to her.

          If it comes back on you, that’s when you shrug your shoulders and say “I’m not sure why glazing step wasn’t done, Bob knows to come to me and I’ll get it in the schedule. Can you find out when Bob requested that from me, because I don’t have any record of it. ”

          Yes, I would caution you from going to HR over this. This is one of those interpersonal relationship things that you should be handling on your own. From your own description it’s not affecting your work, it’s affecting the work of the people who should be coming to you.

          In the instances where you find out that she told Bob not to come to you, then ask her. “Sally, I’m confused why you’d tell Bob not to come to me for the teapot glazing. You know that it’s my job to schedule that?”

          Or you can try the cards on the table discussion… “Sally, not sure how we ended up where we are and I don’t need to be your best friend or vice verse, but we do need to work together. I hope that what ever differences we have can be set aside and we can at least be professional. I heard that you told Bob not to come to me, he actually does if he needs to get his stuff in the schedule, so I’ve told him from now on that the requests need to be made to me.”

        2. Asenath*

          You can deal with her more directly yourself. When you discover that Bob didn’t do something, ask him why. When he says Sara told him not to go to you, tell him straight out to come to you directly. Do it publicly and, if possible, confirm in writing. Repeat with Sara. I don’t think HR even needs to be involved. I’ve sent emails saying things like “Would you please forward all requests for information on widgets to me directly? I have just been informed that some people are not getting widget information reports, and it is impossible for me to provide them if I don’t have those requests. And Sara has no excuse to tell Bob not to approach me when he needs information from me. Naturally, you also reassure Bob that he’s doing the right thing to ask you, and suggest that if anyone suggests anything else, he should confirm with you.

      2. Zena*

        I work in HR and every company I have worked for has a procedure where you go to HR to deal with workplace bullying, so yeah, they can do something, it just seems that this particular HR department don’t want to. They should be talking to the mean colleague and if she doesn’t improve within a reasonable amount of time, then HR would liaise with her manager to start a disciplinary procedure.

        1. Sloan Kittering*

          I guess I’m not sure what bullying really is, if it’s just not liking someone or even a little talking about them behind their back. (Depends on the topic of the gossip and the type, I suppose, and how egregious?). Not being friends with someone / not liking them, even visibly, doesn’t seem to fall into HR category to me – as long as they’re reasonably civil in person and the workflow isn’t impacted. It’s only when OP followed up with clarification that this person was mucking in her workflow that I felt like it was a case for HR.

  82. CS Rep By Day, Writer By Night*

    We all found out on Monday this week that our facility is being sold to a competitor. Although we are all being kept on initially, there is a very good chance that I could be made redundant in the next few months. Looks like it’s time to ramp up my job search again after all. *cries*

    1. Reba*

      Sorry CS Rep Writer! That’s tough news. I’m glad you have a bit of a runway into your next gig, if you do need to move on. Good luck!

  83. Free Meerkats*

    Second snow hit in a week is due in the Seattle area today – hitting most heavily just before afternoon commute time. Our superintendent has said if we need to take time off, take the time. I was off Monday to shovel my driveway and put the snow tires on my car, I could have managed the predicted snowfall on the all-seasons, but 8 inches was too much for them.

    They blew the forecast last weekend, it was significantly heavier than predicted; let’s see how they do with this one, which is forecast to be worse than Sunday’s.

    1. Even Steven*

      I’m in the area and the snow has already begun. I had two PTO days already this week! In Seattle! In February! I will work at home today, and next week looks like a rerun – more snow expected Mon & Tues. It was fun for a day, but this is getting old. Be safe, Free Meerkats! Get home before noon like they are saying on the news!

      1. Free Meerkats*

        I’m north of Seattle and am considering it, even though working from home isn’t allowed. I work at the lowest point in the city and live within a block of the highest point, so it’s all uphill going home.

        Be careful out there!

    2. loons with gumption*

      This snow and ice is getting so incredibly old!! I remembering being stranded at school in the storm of 1990 that hit around midday — I really hope workplaces and schools are smart about this. My work is closing at 12:30. Stay safe everyone!

      1. Free Meerkats*

        The ’90 storm… I got caught in the Sammamish River valley near the Chateau Ste Michelle Winery in a full size, long bed, crewcab, 2 wheel drive pickup with highway tires. I didn’t get back to Everett until after midnight. No cell phone, no communication radio; my wife was frantic because I was out sampling creeks that day, all she imagined was me face down in a shallow creek, being covered by snow. And then got written up for not letting my supervisor know I was stuck. I started job hunting the next week.

    3. SignalLost*

      Also in Seattle. I am just not going to be in the office until Wednesday at best, I think; I’m in west Seattle so basically I have a giant hill (up or down; generally both) no matter which way I go. I have been vocal about the fact I’m not risking my car (that I have made one payment on) or my life to the hills. And I work in Tukwila, and the bus that goes to my workplace stops right outside my door … unless it’s on snow routing. So they can all just cope with the fact I’m WFH.

    4. Brownie*

      I used to work in downtown Seattle and take the bus about 20 miles south to get home. See one snowflake outside the office window? Catch the next bus out because the I-5 hills would ice up so fast since there were never enough plows and de-icing equipment. One memorable winter about 6-7 years ago I lucked out and caught a bus that was stuck for only 4 hours on I-5 at the I-405 hill. The next bus that left 30 min behind me was stuck for over 12 hours on I-5 as the snow piled up around it. I still remember the massive snowfalls in downtown Seattle and having to wade for days through the slush and ice before they finally decided that maybe it was actually okay to use salt on the streets.

    5. ..Kat..*

      DH and I cancelled our long weekend trip to Seattle this morning due to weather forecasts being increasingly bad for Seattle. Since then, I have heard that flights from Portland, OR to Seattle have been cancelled.

      Stay warm and safe!

  84. IamMrsDeWinterNow*

    I work in a non-profit organization where gifts from employees to supervisors are explicitly prohibited. Grand Boss has a birthday is coming up. The office manager, Tom, is planning a dinner celebration in a nearby restaurant, inviting all the departments that answer to Grand Boss. It’s not clear if we are expected to pay for Grand Boss’ share, but even so, the implicit pressure to participate makes me uncomfortable. A lot of the employees are part-timers making minimum wage, so even if they pay only for their share, it could be a financial burden. The dinner is scheduled in the late afternoon, starting during our official office hours and extending an hour after.

    That’s not all. Tom wants to order a gift (a mug or something – I don’t really know) which will be emblazoned with words that we were asked to contribute – words that describe why Grand Boss is so great.

    Tom means well. He is an enthusiastic team spirit builder and Grand Boss is a nice person, but this feels like enforced revelry and bootlicking, to be honest.

    Am I wrong to be bothered by this?

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      just pull Tim aside and tell him that your org has a rule against gifts for higher ups, and that you think people might be uncomfortable being asked to chip in. Send him Alison’s article about it. Suggest free things, like a potluck if that appeals to your office culture or just passing around a card.

      1. pleaset*

        Yeah. And for all the OP knows, they are not being asked to chip in for the dinner. Ask/clarify.

    2. WellRed*

      That’s because it is enforced revelry. This is inappropriate on every level. Honestly, Grand Boss should shut it down. Or some other boss.

    3. Susie Q*

      No, I would explain to Tom that your org prohibits gifts flowing upward. You should recommend that he purchase a card and have people sign it at most.

    4. DAMitsDevon*

      One of the receptionists at my office almost did something similar for the CEO. It didn’t go quite as far as taking the CEO out to dinner, but she was thinking of having everyone chip in to get the CEO a cake and then some chocolates and maybe a bottle of wine. Someone else who overheard the plan shut it down because of the not having gifts flow upward rule, but instead suggested we get a birthday cake to celebrate everyone who was having a birthday that month, not just the CEO, and to leave out the extra gifts.

      Even though it would end up being more than one a time thing, if Tom is as enthusiastic about building team spirit as you say, maybe he’d open to having a small, in office celebration with some snacks to celebrate every employee who has a birthday during the month/quarter?

      1. valentine*

        No, don’t start celebrating birthdays. And even if this were a big milestone, you don’t want to set a dangerous precedent. I wonder why Tom thinks several departments can just leave work early. Tell him it’s not done and maybe loop in your supervisor. If it goes forward, raise your concern about the lower-paid people and tell Tom or your supervisor to be explicit about whether it counts as work time for anyone, it not being mandatory, and what they expect employees to pay.

        1. IamMrsDeWinterNow*

          Funny you should mention milestone birthday, because it is.
          Good point about several departments leaving work early. I didn’t even think about that.

          Thank you everyone for your comments and suggestions. They confirm that I’m not just a grinch.

  85. Cheesesteak in Paradise*

    TL:DR Microsoft Access courses on LinkedIn?

    Hi all, I found an online recommendation for the Microsoft Access tutorial on LinkedIn by Adam Wilbert. It’s 6 hours long and looks like LinkedIn tutorials have a one month free trial.

    I want to use it to setup a database of clinical data and I have next to no Access experience.

    Has anyone used it and would recommend it? Or another online Access course preferably free or cheap?

    1. CheeseNurse*

      Does your local library allow you to use Lynda.com for free? That’s how I learned the basics of Access.

    2. Mimmy*

      I think Lynda merged with LinkedIn Learning because my husband’s work just started providing LIL and all the courses are from Lynda.

  86. anon for always*

    I need some advice. January hasn’t been great for me at work. The TL:DR version of events if that we have a temp who is supposed to be shared between two offices. I am not her manager, but do direct some of her workflow. I didn’t realize she was feeling overwhelmed (she says she said something to me, and I responded by telling her to get faster. This does sound like something I would say as a joke, but I have no recollection of this. I question what it was she said to me, as had I realized she was serious I would’ve 100% sat down with her to figure things out and help) and it turned into a whole Thing that has, I think, since quieted down.

    Anyway, as a result of this my manager approached me and told me that I can come off as brusque and sarcastic and that not everyone understands my sense of humor. Which is fair criticism, I think, because I’ve been told this before, and I feel like I don’t always read tone as well as I should – making jokes is how I connect with people, by making them laugh. How the whole situation went down meant I was struggling with my mental health for about a week straight.

    During this time, another coworker told me I’m mean (I think she was joking?). And another coworker told me I can be harsh. And another coworker called me a bitch. And then another coworker told me that a third coworker told her that the third coworker thought I was mad at her, because apparently when she came in to talk to me a couple times during this week, I sighed and it seemed like I rolled my eyes at her (again, no memory of this, but I suspect it was when I seriously felt like I was walking around under a very deep, dark cloud and I spoke to basically no one). I wish the third coworker had said something because I would’ve apologized on the spot, but she didn’t and still hasn’t.

    Anyway, needless to say I’ve spent the past two weeks feeling like I’m a complete garbage human who should just stay in my house at all times to avoid inflicting myself on the general public. Since I need a paycheck to live, I can’t do that. I’ve tried to be quieter at work and talk less, but I think that makes people think I’m mad at them so I just can’t win! I know AAM says you shouldn’t take work criticism personally, but I’ve actually cried a few times over this.

    Does anyone have any resources for me? Helpful books to read? Suggestions? Should I just tape my mouth shut? I’m at a bit of a loss.

    1. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Do you have a therapist? If not, find one; it sounds like you have bouts of depression and they’re blocking you from being fully present (they have a tendency to do that). If you do have one, focus your next few sessions on ways to manage so you don’t go through times where you have no memory of conversations. That’s where I would start.

      You don’t need to shut yourself off from the world. In fact, I think it’s better in situations like this to engage more– try to be more aware of your conversations with other people, try to be more present in work situations. I’m not saying these people are all correct, but if there are some incidents where you think it’s likely things happened the way they said and you may not remember, then it’s worth it to work on being more aware in the moment. For me, sometimes that means taking a beat to take in what someone is saying, or remembering that I can say, “It’s a rough day, sorry– what were you saying, again?” if I’m interrupted while working.

      Also, if your workload can handle it and you have the days, remember that it’s ok to take a day off when the dark cloud descends. For myself, I look at it like a contagious illness; I’m better off staying home for my own well-being and so I don’t inflict my worst mood on my co-workers.

      1. valentine*

        Sounds like you’re a woman surrounded by sexist colleagues. Everyone is too invested in their status in other people’s feelings and someone has poisoned the well, so everyone’s piling on you. If the admin expresses concern, respond as though she’s serious. If you want to stay, maybe you need to change your worksona to smiley, friendly, and/or chatty.

        If the alleged eyeroll was about work, that’s something to ponder. If your coworker was habitually wasting your time, you don’t need to indulge her, but these people are obsessed with your face, so, you may need to do some acting to keep them off your back.

    2. CatCat*

      Could you talk to your manager and coworkers individually to enlist their help (and just kind of get it out in the open that yeah, there’s a problem, but I am working on it)? It’s going to be challenging to correct the behaviors since it’s hard for *you* to see them in the moment because you think something is coming across a different way than it actually is (like the joke to the temp.) “Hey, I recognize that there is an issue in how I come across sometimes. I am working on that. If I am coming across as mean or overly harsh when we’re talking, please let me know in the moment. I want to have good working relationships with you and it is not my intention to be mean to you.”

      Also, you can pause before you respond to someone. Count for three seconds in your head before you respond to someone. This will give you an extra moment to process what you are going to say before you say.

      The coworker who called you a bitch was way out of line, by the way, because that sort of language is not okay in the workplace. Just acknowledge that for yourself (though I don’t think you need to raise it with anyone if it was a one off and you’re goal is to smooth things with respect to your own behavior right now.)

    3. Q without U*

      There’s a podcast called “Unf*ck Your Brain” which you might find helpful (the asterisk is in the title, so make sure to include it when searching). It won’t necessarily help you immediately with your relationships with your coworkers, but it does provide some tools for reprogramming your brain, and some of the episodes should help you control or prevent the self-critical spiral.

    4. Kathenus*

      I’m sorry, I know this is hard. I’ve gone through a similar thing in my past where there’s a convergence like this. I can say that for me, as hard as it was at the time, it was a catalyst for me to work on myself and become a better person and employee.

      A key for me was a very supportive manager, along with being at a place in my life where I was willing to truly hear the feedback and commit to working on things. I met with someone who helped me with some strategies to improve certain areas of my behavior, was honest with my teams that I was working on things and that I wanted their help of open communication and feedback to help, and it ended up being a pivotal time in my professional life.

      So you are NOT a garbage human, you are simply a human. We all have areas of strength, and things we can improve. I’m sure you have both of these as well like we all do. Taking the feedback seriously doesn’t make you a bad person, it makes you someone who is strong enough to be self aware and to be willing open to continuing to improve. The fact that you wrote this, and are open to asking for feedback from us, shows that you are a person who wants to keep growing. I have faith in you. If I could do it, so can you. Best of luck.

    5. That Girl From Quinn's House*

      It sounds like you’re not a good culture fit at your office, because with the exception of your boss who’s allowed to be giving feedback, your coworkers should not be insulting you to your face. Calling someone “mean,” a “bitch,” and gossiping/tone policing you when you’re having what obviously sounds like a bad week is not something coworkers should be doing.

      This is not a healthy environment. Start looking before it destroys you further.

      1. T. Boone Pickens*

        OP’s coworkers don’t know OP is having a bad week though. They aren’t psychic. I do agree that the ‘bi***’ comment is entirely out of line and has no place in the office.

    6. LGC*

      So, it sounds like a couple of things are going on – and it’s not all you. (Or not even mostly you.)

      On your direct question, you probably do need to be a bit more mindful of your interactions. (Hi, I’m the same way. I actually had the exact same feedback a couple of months back, although thankfully it was phrased appropriately to me.) In my case – when I feel comfortable with people, my tongue gets a bit looser, which gets me in trouble sometimes. (Both in and out of work.) So I need to actually be conscious of what I’m saying all the time (which is difficult and crazy making – basically, I need to listen to myself in real time every time I open my mouth), and immediately catch myself when I do slip up because I’m human.

      So that’s your part.

      But also…dude, you are so not a garbage person! It just sounds like you’re a bit awkward and don’t have the most elegant coping mechanisms – you use humor as a shield for your emotional vulnerability. (I might be projecting a little, but also…you did basically say that.) And it’s really hard to realize that you were actually hurting people it seems like…you cared about. But also, you sound like you’d be fun to hang out with in real life. You sound like you really do care about others. And I hope you realize that.

      Finally, I’m appalled by your coworkers. I mean, Heather said that Heather thought you were mad at her? Heather literally called you the b-word to your face?! (I imagine your coworkers are all named Heather, even the men. Apologies to anyone reading this who is actually named Heather.) I feel like they’re all specifically picking on you, which is…awful. (And juvenile.) I saved this for last, but I was almost going to lead with it – I don’t care about how “abrasive” you are, those comments are not okay. You all are (I’m guessing) adult professionals, not high schoolers.

      1. ..Kat..*

        As for being more conscious of what I am saying, I have found taking one deep breath in and out before I reply to be helpful for me.

    7. Fellow Bitch*

      I have a lot of empathy for you here, because I also have received similar feedback from people who don’t really connect with me at work. So I totally understand the emotional reaction in the wake of all this. But, well, I think framing it as a you being a “garbage person” is frankly counter productive, because it takes the heat off the fact that you are making choices every day in your actions. You claim not to remember any of these moments, but with this amount of feedback the truth is clear: you are regularly mean to your coworkers. And that’s not some innate quality you can’t change because you’re just “garbage,” those are choices you make when interacting with them.

      So you say you would have apologized immediately if Coworker 3 had said something–perfect, so go apologize now. Practice saying “I’m sorry if I’m being sharp today, it’s just been a terrible week.” Practice actively listening to your coworkers, and leading with an attitude of helpfulness–instead of assuming something is a joke, go with “Oh, that sounds difficult, did you want to talk through that some more and see what we can do about it?” or something similar. Thank them a lot more. Recognize when someone has been helpful even in a small way or has made your workload easier or better and give a specific thanks or compliment in the moment. Seem happy to see them when you get to work. Ask warm, genial questions about their day or lives once in a while. When you say “Sorry, it’s rough day today,” follow up with “But how are things over on your end?” Actually listen when they answer and offer sympathy even if you can’t offer a solution.

      Basically, think of the warmest, loveliest person you know and try to mimic them as much as possible. Once you have more “credit” where people know you’re not mad at them and have a good relationship, you’ll have more wiggle room for jokes or grumpiness. And in my experience, sometimes mimicking that behavior helps brings your mood up when depression takes hold. It can sort of reroute your thought patterns a bit, at least when at work and staying busy. I hope you take care of yourself and get the mental health care that you need, which will also help. Remember that we can make bad choices without being bad people.

  87. LGC*

    Please help me with stuff I should know how to do by now.

    I supervise people with varying disabilities, mostly. (Some don’t have any disability AFAIK.) The impression I get is that most of them aren’t developmentally disabled and are able to understand regular instructions.

    I find myself having to repeat things to my team five or six times before it sets in. And sometimes, directions are missed entirely – like, for example, I asked an employee to do something for me after break (I said explicitly to do it after break) and he did it immediately. (During his break. Which…I should have called him out on that because I didn’t want him to work through his break, but he would have taken it personally. Long story.)

    I’ve asked my managers and my peers if I’m clear and they say that I generally am. So I’m at a loss for where I’m making mistakes.

    1. LQ*

      Make them say it back, or respond or write it down or whatever is appropriate. Saying clear direction is entirely different than someone receiving, understanding, and executing. So if people are struggling with that push part of that work onto them and make them expose it (by demonstrating that they’ve received and understand it). Right now you see the execution, but if you can stop it earlier that could be helpful.

      (FWIW I work with some very very high paid people who are supposedly experts who do the exact same thing. Tear down this environment by Friday. Next Tuesday, and the environment is torn down? Oh…you actually wanted me to do that?…um yeah.)

      1. LGC*

        Thanks so much! I do this sometimes, but mostly in training. I’ll try to do this a little bit more often.

    2. OtterB*

      There is such a thing as “auditory processing” issues, which means that someone may take extra time comprehending spoken instructions. In cases where it’s feasible, it might help to provide written instructions or checklists. My daughter (who is developmentally disabled, which I know you said your employees aren’t, but still) will nod when she’s given oral instructions and sometimes comply and sometimes get distracted or miss a piece, but she’s a demon with a checklist.

      Generally speaking, I’d say err in the direction of being overly clear about the general parameters of what you want people to do – things like “don’t work through your break unless I specifically say it’s necessary”.

      1. LGC*

        I actually have some auditory issues myself! (Relevant information: I have ASD.)

        I’ll definitely try to create checklists. That might help a lot.

      2. Kuododi*

        I’m going to talk about my Dad again….(turning into the theme of the evening!). He’s absolutely brilliant as an engineer and can fix/trouble shoot things which leave the rest of us shaking our heads in amazement. Dad has, however always struggled with being able to focus when he’s receiving lots of data all at once. ( He’s all over the issues if they are presented to him in terms of ….” Hear is the problem as defined by Issue A…Issue B and so on.). He additionally finds it helpful if he’s informed about potential solutions already tried and either accepted or rejected. If I or anyone else came to him word vomiting all hundred or so reasons, back story and/or emotional responses connected to the dilemma, his mind goes to vapor lock. He’s discovered over time that checklists are invaluable to keep him focused. He also has developed a skill at talking through the problem so he can break it down to manageable chunks. Hope that’s helpful. Have a great weekend.

    3. LGC*

      More information: I usually don’t get ANY information on how to deal with employees at first (usually it’ll be like, “Here’s Fergus, train him on llama shampooing”). So I kind of have to figure it out, ask if they need it explained a different way, try new things. I’ve also created documentation that I hand out, which I’ve had other people review for clarity (and they’ve said it is very thorough and clear).

      1. irene adler*

        I had a tech who could not follow requests given in compound sentences. Such things confused him. No, he is not mentally challenged. So I can understand the employee doing the task right away instead of after break. That’s two things employee is asked to do, although it might not seem to be the case to you and me.

        But, when there were lots of things he need to accomplish, I could write out simple sentences – like a check list- and he was fine with that.

        1. finish your break
        2. wash the teapots
        3.clean the teapot brushes
        etc.
        I would add that it isn’t about clarity of instruction. I’m sure your instructions are just fine. It’s about not being able to keep too many things in mind at the same time. Again, it’s just how he is; not a disability or failing on his part.

        1. LGC*

          I actually never thought of it like that! (We have standardized breaks, so I just assume Bob knows that I’m not expecting him to work over break unless I specifically say so.)

          That’s actually something really actionable since I often give “compound” instructions. I’ll keep an eye out for that.

          1. Quandong*

            This approach will also help people who have Central Auditory Processing Disorder, or executive dysfunction, or poor working memory.

            I have students with CAPD and it was useful for me to pay attention to how I delivered verbal instructions – because they would often remember the instructions, but mix up the order.

            I suggest using both visual and verbal instructions, broken down into simple steps, as a way of helping people to reliably perform what you are asking them to do. Perhaps you might like to research how to make accessible checklists and charts, for people with varying visual processing abilities.

            Other things that may impact the people you are supervising:
            – Background noise may affect the ability to focus on your verbal instructions, or may mean they don’t hear some of your words. If you can give verbal instructions in a quiet environment this is worth trying.
            – Wanting to appear competent may mean people are hesitant to ask clarifying questions or admit they don’t know what to do in front of their peers. Can you give instructions in a way that people may feel less exposed if they need to ask questions?
            – Daydreaming or thinking about something else while you are giving verbal instructions. Before you start giving verbal instructions, say the person’s name to get their attention, and alert them that you need them to focus on what you are about to say.

            It’s worth asking your employer to provide you with ongoing support and training in how to most effectively work with the people you are supervising. You deserve to have a comprehensive list of strategies at hand for your work!

            1. LGC*

              …I am printing this thread out and framing it by my desk because this is all amazing advice. Thank you so much!

              So, you’ve nailed a lot of the challenges I face: We’re in an “open office” (and by that, I mean – it used to be a storage room before we set it up as a workspace) where there’s a fair amount of background noise. I don’t have my own private space, and for quick requests (routine things), it’s a bit of an ordeal to pull someone into the hallway to say, “hey, I need you to do this at x time.” I’ll usually say the person’s name to get their attention, so I’ll continue doing that.

              I think the biggest thing is the clarifying questions. On one hand, I’m aware that some people are shy about it. On the other hand…I really don’t want to reinforce being shy about it, because needing things explained doesn’t mean you’re stupid, and I want people to see that. (I mean, I try to ask for clarification on things when I need to, just so people see me doing it.) You’re right that some people do feel like it’s a big deal, but…I just want to show them that it’s really not a big deal and they shouldn’t be embarrassed.

      2. LQ*

        I also wonder a bit if the people who have reviewed the document know the thing/process/etc well enough that they themselves aren’t good judges?

        I’m notorious for skipping the first 10 steps, in fact if I see them listed I feel condescended to. Sometimes they are things like, turn on your computer, sign in, open your browser, go to the console. To me those are all just obvious so I jump to “In the console…” Until I gave it to someone who is literal to the extreme and she was ok with skipping the first 2 steps, but I had to start with, Open Internet Explorer (the one that looks like an e). It made me rethink a lot of instructions I’d written.
        So having someone who is a total outsider, or if you have one of those extremely literal people they are a treasure (a frustrating treasure, but a treasure) try the instructions with them.

      3. Quandong*

        LGC, it’s really difficult to have to work out the best way of communicating instructions to people without enough information. I think your situation is very challenging because there will always be a trial-and-error aspect unless you can get more information before you meet new employees.

        If I were in your position I’d bring this up with your boss or manager, and request more background information about your employees so you can tailor your communication style to what they need. This is something that will help everyone who does your job in future, too.

      4. winter*

        I love documenting things for clarity, but working with (non-developmentally disabled) colleagues has showed me that only about 30 % of them love them too. At minimum I have to redirect people verbally when they ask me about stuff that has been documented.
        Others never start using them and I have been mostly successful (though annoyed) calling them out in the moment whenever an issue arises.

    4. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      Sometimes you have to change how you say otherwise clear directions.

      For example you might be saying “Bob, after your break I need you polish the paperclips”
      Instead try saying “Bob, take your break. When that is done start polishing paperclips” or depending on the person you can break it down even further. “I want you do two things in order. Take your break. After your break, polish the paperclips.”

    5. Kathenus*

      It might be helpful to engage the people you supervise in devising solutions. Ask them how they would like instructions – written, verbal, both. If you have things you want in a certain sequence, ask what works best for them to communicate this – a list in number order, etc. Let them know the goal you are trying to achieve – sharing information and instructions effectively in a way that works for them; and that they need to participate in this process with the goal being they do the tasks correctly without constant repetition of the instructions. Partner together with them on the solution, and be clear that they need to work with you on this so that they are performing the needed jobs correctly.

      1. LGC*

        I’ve tried, but…the problem is, sometimes it’s hard to get answers as to what helps. Some employees just don’t feel comfortable advocating for themselves (which is a whole other post)! Or they don’t know how to.

        I think part of it might be the way I ask, or just my general approach. (I’ve been told I can be intimidating even if I’m not trying – sometimes I’ve accidentally startled employees when I’m just walking around for something else.)

        1. valentine*

          It could be he didn’t miss the instruction, but wanted to get the thing done so it wouldn’t be hanging over his head or he thought he’d forget or any number of reasons.

          It sounds like TPTB throw you in the deep end and you feel like you need to brainstorm and nail down the perfect way to do your job so each person responds the way you need. That’s physically impossible, not sustainable, and not the gig (or it shouldn’t be, and certainly not for everyone). There should be a step where someone has made sure everyone can do their job. Maybe, like your instruction list, they need to dial back and see if people can follow verbal instructions and, if so, what kind and, if not, what tool would help them. But that’s a lot, like an assessment for an IEP, and beyond your scope, no?

  88. Canonical23*

    Does anyone have any experience to share on how to handle being part of a “management team” where you’re still technically an employee to the manager? I’m an assistant director of a non-profit and above me, there’s the director. That’s it in terms of management apart from the board, but the board is more focused on other things like politics, broad policies, developing relationships with stakeholders, etc. We work together as a “team” on a lot of stuff in regards to our shared staff (I’m the direct supervisor, but obviously, she gets input and final calls on tough decisions) and some strategic planning but in other areas it seems like there’s more of an employee/boss relationship between us.

    I’m 6 months in and I still feel a little wiggly navigating this arrangement, i.e. many times I’m unsure if I can make the call on a decision or if they should. Or if they’re explaining something to me, if I can weigh in with my opinion or if it’s more of them instructing me.

    1. revueller*

      Is there another assistant director role to a different director? I would ask them what they do and how they navigate that. Failing that, ask your boss. It’s a matter of finding out the full extent of your job description, so it’s definitely a valid question. Given that you’re 6 months in, maybe ease into it with, “I’m sorry for not asking this sooner but I’m still unclear about—” Maybe try a specific situation (“When you said ABC earlier today, I’m not quite sure if that’s a situation where you want X or Y from me.”) and then make it a broader rule for the future (“Okay, so going forward, in this type of situation, I will/can do XYZ, right?”)

      Hope that helps. Best of luck to you navigating this.

    2. it happens*

      You’re six months in so it’s probably a good time to sit down with the boss for a good big picture discussion.
      Make a list of the decisions you’ve been a part of since you started – put them into some buckets. Figure out which ones you’d feel comfortable with making yourself, which you would make recommendations on and which you really feel out of your depth with. You’ve just made a draft table of authorities. Go over this with your boss for her input. And a commitment to revisit it in another six months or so.
      And there is nothing wrong with things still being unclear six months in, especially at a small org.

  89. DC*

    So last week I talked about some of my current work concerns, and this week I’ve really just felt very frustrated and taken advantage of. I was given a very small merit bonus for pulling off a huge, wildly successful project singlehandedly, so while that takes the edge off, I’ve been getting more frustrated at watching other people’s lack of planning become my emergencies, and as such my priorities which are important to the departments growth get pushed off. Meanwhile, another person is leaving, this time voluntarily, at least.

    I recently graduated with a graduate degree in a tangentially related field to what I do now, and I’m really starting to feel like it’s time to look at moving into my degree field full-time. I’m just not sure how to do that when I’m just at a year in my current place, and it will look like a short hop.

    1. Anonym*

      As Alison says, one short stint isn’t a problem, a pattern of them is. Don’t let this hold you back.

      1. ..Kat..*

        Plus, you have earned a degree – the perfect time to job search. In fact, Alison has cautioned people not to wait very long before searching for a job in their degree field once they graduate.

    2. Another event person*

      You can start looking and by the time you leave it would be a year plus so it’s not really job hopping. You can also explain it as “left Current Job for Grad Degree Job because this is what I ultimately want to do/this job is a better fit.” I highly doubt someone would fault you for doing that.

  90. Raia*

    How do I learn how to present data in a way thats looks clean and simple enough for an overview/higher management? Is this just a sign that I need to hunker down into some data/visualization books, and if so, what titles have helped you present in a better way?

    For some context, I used a Pivottable and it was called “overengineered.” I have the data in a table, top pane frozen, columns highlighted by color of what ive worked on (a gentle golden color) and what was provided to me (dark grey). I was told to make my file cleaner, but to me it is clean and i don’t know how to make it better. Send help lol

    1. merp*

      I guess the answer to this depends on what they specifically looking for, which isn’t super helpful. What question do they want the answer to? Sometimes in my experience, higher ups really just want one number or one chart instead of a table, but that may not be your situation. I’ve done plain executive summaries for some audiences, almost very simple infographics with a few numbers highlighted, but if they need the full context and to see all the data, there’s just not much cleaner than a pivot table usually.. so you might just work with weirdos. :)

      1. valentine*

        Your table sounds lovely, Raia.

        Is it possible someone’s colorblind and they’d rather it be black and white?

    2. LQ*

      Different people want different amounts of data so I have been trying to think of it as something where you can get more and more and more if you want but that initially you only get a very small slice. Edward Tufte has some really pretty (and expensive) books that may be useful.

      What is the smallest data that you can give that can prove your point. Then expand on that.

      (I have a boss, higher level of management, who LOVES data, so I often start with something I want to see and he makes me add more and more and more data to it until it feels cluttered and like it’s missing the point to me.)

    3. Karen from Finance*

      Show only the data that you need to show. Consider experimenting with graphs and charts to not show every single number in the table. If you must show the table and they don’t like the color coding, consider adding a new column like “data owner” (your own name or the name of whoever provided it to you). Maybe even the same color coding could work but would look cleaner if following a same color scheme in the palette.

      A lot of it is trial and error, and intuition. Try playing with it a little bit. Sometimes I find a way to ask: “I found this new format to show you the data, does this work for you or would you rather we go back to the old one?” And have two versions ready, that way they can point you towards the right direction.

      I don’t think there’s a rule as most of it is personal preference of the person you’re presenting it to.

      1. Raia*

        I keep the dark grey as leftover from the file I was provided and worked off of, so I didnt want to change that so I picked gold which is pretty light. Our main color is danger red so I almost never align with that. I made the rest of the data devoid of color, no fill, black font, calibri etc. I deleted all sheets/columns that didnt directly relate to the general idea of money. The idea about having two different files sounds good, thank you Karen! I just didnt think of that in time. Thank you all for the book suggestions and visualization techniques.

        My manager couldn’t really describe what he wanted, but has mentioned multiples times that pivot tables “overengineer” the stats. Im not great at infering what is supposed to make it less engineered/more clear, as the pivot table is one of the best tools in Excel of presenting data cleanly. However I know I have to become better at figuring this out if I want to be a data analyst in the future, so please keep the suggestions coming!

        1. Friday*

          That was probably his way of saying (admitting) that he’s not comfortable using pivots. So hard-coding a table would be the way to go.

          1. LGC*

            Or…do what I do and turn it into a PDF with relevant values selected. In my case, I run nightly project status updates (because I’m a gigantic nerd), and while the raw data is pivots, I’ll just export a PDF and send that out to everyone. This also has the advantage of making the data static and unable to be altered.

            (Also, I love Raia for posting this question, although now my entire weekend will be taken up by reading all the suggestions in the replies.)

            1. Raia*

              LGC, thank you for the internet love and glad I could post a question that other people can glean from too! Maybe I’ll create a one page PDF of the research and see what critique it gets.

              Friday and ..Kat.., good call. I think the table was 8 rows 3 columns, but I can try to pare it down.

        2. ..Kat..*

          Since your boss can’t really explain what he wants, ask him for names of coworkers whose work on this he likes. These coworkers may be able to help.

          If no coworkers, can he point you to examples of data presentations that he likes? Can he tell you what info he thinks is unnecessary in the table you provided? What data is essential? What data is nice to have?

          While you may like pivot tables for yourself, they may be too complicated for most people (or at least your boss). Is there a way to break a pivot table into two to four simpler tables (or graphs or charts or whatever)?

    4. Grandma Mazur*

      Random thought but I’ve found tables and charts sometimes get a better reception from higher ups if I’ve subtly used colours that more or less match the organization’s logo/colour scheme…

      1. Jerry Vandesic*

        Tufte is great, especially his first two book on visualization (“The Visual Display of Quantitative Information” and “Envisioning Information”). After the first two he went a bit off the rails, and while pretty, the other books are not all the useful.

        I’d also suggest books by Stephen Few (“Signal”), William Cleveland (“Visualizing Data”), and Howard Wainer (“Graphic Discovery”).

    6. LGC*

      That is…very unhelpful feedback!

      My usual approach is to show the minimum amount of information necessary. So, my first response is to ask what your upper management needs and to only show that.

      Sometimes, or rather OFTEN (*cough*), they won’t (or can’t) specify what they want. (Or they’ll go back and forth about it until an hour before the report is due. I’m not bitter AT ALL.) In that case, you kind of have to infer. From what it sounds like, you might just want to show the number of items you worked on, the number of items left to work on, and the percentage worked on. (I don’t know your project specs, but that’s a possible way.

      Alternately, get rid of the gray for pending. It sounds like you have a lot of conditional formatting going on. (Or it might be the table layout, in which case…use one that’s more black and white.)

      Hope this helps!

      1. LGC*

        Just because I’m not sure that came across clearly: what upper management said was very unhelpful. You, on the other hand, are doing fine.

    7. CheeseNurse*

      I suggest you read up on some design basics! The Non-Designer’s Design Book by Robin Williams is a good place to start.

      Here are some quick tips off the top of my head for spreadsheets:
      – Don’t highlight with dark, saturated, or bright colours – it makes text very hard to read and is visually overwhelming. Use pastels. Ditch the dark grey and go for pale blue or green instead. If the gold you used is more “harvest gold” than “pale butter yellow,” lighten that up, too.
      – Keep your text black or very dark grey. Stick to one, non-decorative font.
      – Consider enlarging your cells so your text has more room. Whitespace is important, and it’s usually the key to making something look “clean.” (Google “whitespace” for more info on this.)
      – Bolded and/or larger text in row and column headers can help with visual categorization.
      – I don’t know if you’re presenting large blocks of text, but if you are, shorten them up as much as you can.

    8. OtterB*

      Tufte is great but may get into more detail / look at more possibilities than you need.

      I like Show Me The Numbers by Stephen Few. It’s helpful for design of tables as well as graphics.

    9. Forkeater*

      This is pretty much my job – and I’m guessing they didn’t want colors, maybe just a plain data table. The pivot functionality is essential for you doing the analysis but if you’re just presenting the results and not expecting them to interact with the document just clean black/white text might be your best bet.

    10. Data Person*

      I think the first step is to be clear yourself about what is the main message you’re trying to get across with that data table/visual? Then, which of the data tell that story (and which don’t)? And then, what format for visualizing / presenting would highlight that message?

      Those of us who are comfortable with data can see a complex data table or graph that is showing SO MUCH data, and the meaning of it all just jumps out at us and we see the story. But if that’s not your main job… you just see SO MUCH data. It’s just noise. When I hear “overengineered” about a pivottable… I wonder if the boss just wanted you to tell you the “finding”, rather than show your work?

      Anyway, the data viz work I really like is from Stephanie Evergreen. She has a website and a really useful book. It’s good from both a data side and an aesthetic side. Ann Emery is another data viz person that I follow.

      1. Raia*

        Yes, your second paragraph is gold and it perfectly describes me vs. most other people in my office! And I just borrowed ‘Effective Data Visualization’ by Evergreen from the library, is this the book you were referring to?

    11. Try a dashboard course*

      It really depends on what you are trying to present, but I would suggest taking an online course on creating scorecards/dashboards in Excel. I was asked to do a scorecard and I’ve never done that before, I started with PivotCharts (I pivot everything) but the file was too cumbersome. I researched and purchased and online course because I didn’t know what I was doing and I needed it. My boss reimbursed my cost even though I bought it and started it before I even talked to him about the course.
      I learned SumProduct; it made everything much easier and the files much smaller. I’ve got a one-pager w/ three histogram charts, a small donut chart and line chart together, all controlled by drop down boxes. Our corporate overlords are holding this up as “best practices” to our sister companies.
      The hardest part was that I am not creative, and I over-explain and try to give them everything, so it took a lot of trial and error to get it down to what they wanted to see/was most helpful.
      The course I took is TrumpExcel, I also bought the regular Excel course from them, even though I’ve actually taught Excel before, you never know, you can always learn something new.

    12. it happens*

      Good suggestions above- I’m partial to Tufte, but I studied with him. His books are probably overkill for what you’re trying to do- there are a lot free sites that you can look at for ideas (search for visual display of data.)
      The most basic recommendation is to think of the presentation from the perspective of the audience- what are they going to do with the information? What decision is it going to influence? What is the minimum you can give them that will enable that decision? If you don’t know the answers, then that is the first thing to ask your boss, which may allow for a more robust discussion than ‘over-engineered.’
      You want to have all of your supporting data available for in-depth questions, so keep it in your back pocket.
      Data presentation can be so powerful and fun- enjoy the process!

  91. Pink Diamond*

    Ok, I am sure this has been addressed before but I can’t find it so forgive me!

    I’ve seen on AAM that if you have a short term stay (less than 4 months) to leave it off your resume while job hunting.

    What if that short term stay is your current job? I’m desperately seeking a new job due to this one being an terrible, terrible fit. I have been in it for 3 months. I listed it on my LinkedIn because I gave up hope but then a new spark has emerged, and I’m determined to find another job.

    Should I leave it off my resume even though it explains what I’ve been doing for 3 months? And then the online application asks for “list current job” and I don’t want to list unemployed. The only good thing about this job is that it’s giving me higher level experience and pay that I could possibly mention, but it’s also been 3 months. I’ve accomplished 2-3 solid things here but also I’m still new-ish in the job. I also would have to explain why I’m looking again so soon.

    What should I do?

    1. Countess Boochie Flagrante*

      I would leave it off. Three months isn’t going to create a compelling narrative that you have solidly achieved these higher-level skills, and looking so soon after starting a new job isn’t a great first impression.

    2. Murphy*

      As long as you don’t have other short stays that would make you look like a job-hopper, I think it’s fine to list this job and be prepared with an explanation as to why it’s a bad fit.

    3. lurkette*

      I feel like there is some good advice on this blog if you search for “quit new job”. I can’t remember all of it, but I know it was helpful to me when I was in your position once. When that happened, I left the short-term job off my resume but showed it on employment apps and spoke about it in interviews when asked what I’d been up to since my last job–and when I did, I just said, “I didn’t show this on my resume since I haven’t accomplished much while there, but I have been working for Teapots Unlimited, Ltd., which isn’t panning out because when I accepted the position they told me the work would be focused on teapot design but it’s become clear that the role is focused a lot more on teapot coding, which doesn’t fit into my career path.” Up to you how to handle it, though, depending on the details of your situation.

    4. LadyByTheLake*

      I would put it on — it always looks better to be employed. But that is such a short stay that you are going to have some rock solid explanation of why you are looking so soon.

      1. Pink Diamond*

        Ah ok, I understand. Thanks! I think I have a pretty diplomatic answer as to why I’m looking at leaving (bad cultural fit = in reality, coworkers and boss are calling each other and I names, being cursed out the first week, threats, etc. just…very unstable work environment.)

  92. Post-It Culprit*

    I work in PA, at a large company (technically non-profit… it’s a hospital) in an admin role in a dept consisting of about 60-100 people.
    A lot of people who work here have Bachelors degrees, working in positions that only require a HS diploma, so when there is opportunity for advancement, a lot of us apply! The job preferences include a Bachelors degree with 2+ years experience as a qualification. If you don’t have a degree, your application is usually rejected very quickly. However, these also tend to go to the manager favorites who do not met the qualifications and spend more time chatting in the office than they do at their desks. Most recently a 19 yr old with a high school diploma and significantly less work history (up against relevant bachelor degrees and multiple years of experience)
    Is this legal? How can we push back on this?

    1. WellRed*

      What is it that you think would be illegal about any of this?
      I wonder if you can reach out to HR to express concerns with, oh, transparency in the hiring process or something. If there IS something untoward going on, HR will be more attuned (and alarmed) then your garden variety manager.

    4. Colette*

      Experience is important, but it’s not all that counts. Meet with your manager, say you’d like to be considered for a promotion the next time, and ask what skills you need to work on.

  93. lurkette*

    I accepted a job offer over the phone yesterday. Today, after reviewing the benefit packet and details, I realize that I’d like them to go up on the salary a bit because of the high parking cost near the office. I haven’t signed anything yet–did I already commit to the salary when I verbally accepted or is the door open to ask for more? And should I e-mail with my request, e-mail with a request for a phone call, or just call? Signed, first time negotiator.

    1. Sleepytime Tea*

      Eh… I wouldn’t. They put together the paperwork on good faith that you’d accepted the offer, even if it was “only” verbally. Think about how you would feel if it were the other way around. You accepted and then when they sent the paperwork over they said “actually, after reviewing benefit costs we need the salary to be a little lower.” That would be pretty crappy. It’s kind of on you to have done your research before you negotiate to know about things like what the parking cost by the office is, if you wanted to take that into account. Even though nothing is signed, you pretty much did commit to the salary when you agreed verbally and the negotiation door is closed.

      You were probably already expecting to pay for parking, if it’s a bit more than you expected then it’s not the company’s job to make up the difference.

      1. lurkette*

        I see…I guess I should elaborate: The benefits outlined that they provide a parking pass, but employees are still responsible for the cost, which I hadn’t been clear on. Still, I see your point.

        1. Sleepytime Tea*

          Well… if they told you ahead of time that they provided a parking pass, and failed to mention that it wouldn’t actually cover the cost of parking, then you do have a *little* room here. You could say “I see in the offer you sent over that the parking pass is not actually paid for. I’m sorry if I misunderstood, but when you said that it was provided, I assumed at company expense (which by the way, is a reasonable assumption). I didn’t take into account the parking expenses in my salary, and so I would actually feel more comfortable with $x instead of $y. Is that something you think we could do?”

          That said, unless that’s a big chunk of change, eh… I still don’t know if I would say anything. It’s just not going to look great if they think you’re nickle and dime-ing them. Another alternative is you find cheaper parking in that area, if it exists?

    2. KarenT*

      I would go back and ask about the parking pass. Just say you were told the position came with one and you’re wondering if the cost could be covered.

  95. Minocho*

    I came into work this Monday and found out a coworker had died suddenly of a heart attack Sunday morning.

    He celebrated his 30 year anniversary with the company this past summer. He was only 56.

    The entire department was shocked and stunned and heartbroken. He was the kind of person that could get along with anyone. He always had a joke or kind word, he knew how to get past any frustration and calm troubled waters. He loved to barbeque and had a successful side business with it. It was heaven those days he brought in a little something for the office. He was our chief chef for our yearly Thanksgiving / Diwali potluck. And he was exceptional at the technical aspects of his job as well.

    Hug your loved ones. Appreciate the great people around you. Live your life to its fullest.

    :(

    1. Rebecca*

      I just turned 56. Your story touched me. I’ve had a ton of personal life upheaval in the past few years. Your advice to hug your loved ones, appreciate the people around you, and live your life to the fullest is spot on. I’d add – tell people how you feel, if you care for them, etc. as you never know if this will be your last day, or their last day…this especially hit home when a dear friend of mine nearly died from a medical issue right out of the blue, this person has recovered but it was a huge wake up call for both of us.

    3. Harriet J*

      So sorry for your loss.
      I’m sure your office will come up with some wonderful ways to honor his memory. Our office baker died of pancreatic cancer a year ago. We are having a bake-off using her favorite whiskey cake recipe on St. Patrick’s Day.

    5. Mimmy*

      Oh how I can relate to this as we had a coworker pass away suddenly last May, also from a heart attack. It was a huge, huge shock to both staff and students. He was so full of life and our students all loved him. Oh man, this is really bringing back memories from that week :(

      Very sorry for your loss.

    6. Kittyfish 76*

      So sorry for your loss. My husband lost 2 coworkers in 2018 (both under 50). One to cardiac arrest and one to an apartment fire (the victim’s 2 year old son also passed from the fire several days later). It’s sad and heartbreaking. Your coworker sounds like he was a wonderful person. Take care.

    7. NACSACJACK*

      Several years ago I lost a person I considered a mentor who was also very popular in the home office. He was either just under or just over 40. A few months ago, we lost another co-worker who had to retire unexpectedly sooner than she planned due to cancer and that was tough for the home office. Eventually, life goes on. Good or bad.

  96. Amber Rose*

    My boss emailed my manager, who forwarded to me: Wakeen at LlamaCo needs some bottles, he’ll pick them up this afternoon.

    Bottles… of what? How many? Which legal billing entity for LlamaCo, we have four? What’s Wakeen’s contact info?

    Then when he showed up, I was asked why I didn’t have three bottles and a part built up and I had to scramble and I nearly cried because my anxiety is set off by feelings of being judged and found lacking.

    I don’t understand how they can be so incompetent at communication.

    1. LadyByTheLake*

      Is there some reason why you couldn’t follow up immediately with your manager to get clarification?

    2. INeedANap*

      Is there any way you can follow up with the customers directly?

      If I were you, I’d be cheerful but forthright about why you needed to follow up. “Hi Wakeen! Boss let me know that you needed bottles, but didn’t have any other info for me. Can I get that from you now?”

      The makes it clear that 1) your boss is doing a bad job taking orders, and 2) just come to you in the first place.

      1. Amber Rose*

        Usually I can. In this case, boss only gave me the dude’s name. I didn’t have his number, email or location, and boss did not provide them when I asked.

        1. INeedANap*

          It’s a bad spot!

          Are you honest about why you don’t have things ready? Again, a cheerful: “Boss did not give me any information about the sale so it was impossible to have ready. Can I get that info from you now?”

          1. valentine*

            This is a great script.

            Put the responsibility and blame where it belongs. You don’t have to scramble. It’s not your fault and you can proceed as though there’s a bank robber hiding in the room and you have to appear calm in order for everything to go well. When I worked customer service, I kept this quote nearby: Poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.

            Ask your manager not to send you BS. Give him a form, if necessary, of the minimum info you need to fulfill a request.

    3. Asenath*

      Take a deep breath, remember it’s not your fault if they expect you to make bricks without straw, and mentally practice polite ways to point out “In order to fulfil your request, I need X, Y and Z” . Give yourself bonus points if you don’t add “as you know perfectly well” or “your carelessness isn’t my emergency.” Count down to retirement (if it isn’t too far away).

  97. Birch*

    Just shouting into the void here. I think I’ve finally accepted that my manager refusing to manage is not a commentary on or a reflection of my own competence at my job. I’ve stopped spending time and energy trying to be warm and friendly to people who don’t respect my skills or time, and making the decision that stepping in as de facto manager on the team, while Not My Job and Unfair and Way Above My Pay Grade, is actually worth it because it will allow the rest of the team to keep afloat. Applying a realistic but gung-ho attitude, staying businesslike, and detaching all emotion from the job is actually having a positive impact on how people treat me. Plus, one day when I actually reach that pay grade, I’m going to be an awesome manager, mostly due to AAM community keeping me sane. Thanks, y’all.

    1. Need to think of a name*

      I occasionally do little things to p*ss my manager off such as wear shoes I know he hates. Makes me feel better to have little victories once in a while.

      1. Birch*

        I wish I had 1% of the emotional impact on her that she has (had?) on me. I’m starting to think she’s a robot whose AI is malfunctioning. I’m just storing up WTF stories for later in life. This week it was her complaining that two interns hadn’t gotten back to her with a task from last week, how terrible is that, they’re so irresponsible, we can’t trust them to do work, etc. etc. I asked if she had given them a deadline. Nope! *headdesk*

  98. Need to think of a name*

    Things have been frustrating at work for a while, my manager doesn’t really manage. We are a remote team of 8 and are manager is managed by someone who visits maybe once a month.

    Over the last two years my manager has got increasingly difficult, I use to be the aim of his wroth but he’s spreading out and at the moment he is targeting the other manager onsite. (Although historically it will come back to me it usually does). He’s erratic behaviour is getting worse and his memory could be compared to a goldfish and completely paranoid.

    I was off with stress this time last year and am at the end of my tether with it my circumstances have changed so I’m at the devil may care attitude at taking his sh*t. Which resulted in my having a conversation with his boss, to which I said your not the only one that hasn’t managed him (it has been years most people just off loaded him) and although it’s tempting to ignore it’s different this time as if you ignore it you will have no staff left, five are currently looking for work). Problem is my manager has a history of retaliation so nobody really wants to say anything they just want to keep the head down and get out. Manager doesn’t actually do a lot in that if you ask me what he does that takes the time I couldn’t answer and have worked with him for years.

    So question is what should his boss do to manage him?

  99. AudreyHorne*

    Long time reader/lurker and first time commenting. I wanted to reach out to this thoughtful and intelligent commentariat to see if anyone has any suggestions for what I’ve been feeling since I started a new job in October 2018.

    Last July, I was laid off. I was employed with that company for almost five years. The company and the job became extremely toxic to my mental health so this was in fact the proverbial blessing in disguise. I received a nice severance, unemployment and because I was the “jack of all trades” at that job, I had no trouble landing other offers and have been working with a company since early October. This new job pays well and the benefits are great. I even enjoy the work I do and really adore my two bosses! The thing is.. I can’t seem to shake the feeling that I’m going to be laid off again. This is a really low-praise, highly critical and sarcastic type of culture which doesn’t really make me feel comfortable. People are often teased and gossiped about for mistakes they’ve made or for even taking a sick day. I’ve checked in with my main supervisor right after New Year’s and he said I’m doing a great job. You’d think that would have quieted any worries I had but nope! I’m just constantly worried that they might think they no longer need my role (I’m an Executive Assistant and most days I’m pretty busy) because that’s the reason I was given when I was laid off in July.

    How my lay off went down was incredibly messed up. After I was diagnosed with depression and anxiety in January 2018, I was cut out of meetings, new opportunities for advancement and everyone’s salary increased but mine. I processed payroll so I knew this first hand. All throughout the year, I was given more and more responsibility with no promise of a raise or promotion to compensate. My performance reviews all year were scored at 100%. I was denied taking unpaid leave to take care of my mental health and then when I found out I was being let go, the reason I was initially given was that it was clear to the two co-owners that “I’ve been very sad all year and the kindest thing they could do was to let me go.” Then after they spoke to a lawyer it changed to “oh your role is being eliminated.”

    Does anyone have any suggestions or thoughts on how to “let go” of the lay off? Or better yet, how to let go of the past? I feel like I was in a very very very bad relationship for five years and am having trouble adjusting to life outside of it.

    Much appreciated :)

    1. Karen from Finance*

      You have said that your firing in the past turned out to be a blessing in disguise. I would try to focus on that as hard as I can. They definitely did treat you in a very ugly and unjust way, but then it was for the best that they let you go.

      For my anxiety, and I realise this does not work for all people with anxiety, I tried to talk myself through it by reminding myself that things (good or bad) will happen regardless, so just focus on things that are true and things that you can control.

      Things that are true:
      – you were in a bad situation in the past
      – you left that situation
      – you are in a new situation now
      – your supervisor has said that you are doing a great job.
      Things you can control:
      – the job you are doing right now, so do the best damn job you can do.

      Try to set the “what if’s” aside as there is a whole universe of those. And yes I know this is incredibly hard, but a lot of this is talking yourself through things and forcing your focus back to present time. After that… Whatever happens, will happen, and you can deal with it as it does. You can totally do it.

      1. AudreyHorne*

        Thank you so much, what you say makes so much sense! I think my anxiety makes it really hard to see the things that are true/what I can control but in the end, that’s all that matters.

        Focusing on these points instead of the what/ifs will be my weekend project. Thank you again :)

        1. ..Kat..*

          Are you able to see a therapist to help you with this stuff? It seems like a lot to deal with on your own. Good luck.

      2. Kathenus*

        I’ve been laid off so I know that stress and paranoia waiting for the floor to fall out again. Part of it gets better with time, as others have mentioned. One thing that has helped me at various times in my career when this type of worry comes up is to have an open conversation with my boss about wanting to make sure they give me constructive feedback if needed. I’ve done that recently with my current boss due to some challenging coworkers who can tend to stir the pot. He isn’t the type to give a lot of detailed feedback, so sometimes my paranoia would rear up and make me worry what he was thinking about my performance. Now that we’ve discussed my desire for feedback openly, and I know that he will let me know if he has any concerns or issues, it’s reduced my stress level worrying about it.

    2. Minocho*

      I would suggest one thing that might help is to try to find a less sarcastic and negative sub culture. You can also push back gently against the culture by modeling a kinder and more professional and supportive attitude. Be the subversive positive person. I feel better after I give a real compliment to someone else, so it can be a mood raiser for me.

      also, use your outside of work network for venting. It sounds like the culture would welcome it into the morass of sarcasm already there, so it might be easy to fall into the habit of continuing it, but I think it would be better for you to work on keeping your support network as separate as possible from your work environment until things stabilize.

      don’t be hard on yourself over this. It took me months to get over toxic work environments, every time.

      1. AudreyHorne*

        I think this is a great idea! If I feel like I can be the positive person, that might make me feel like I have some control in my work environment. And thank you for reminding me that it takes some time to get over toxic work environments. I needed to be reminded of that!

    3. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      It’s only been a few months into the new job. It took me a year to get over a cruddy ending to a job (no layoff but essentially forced out by a mega hosebeast bully boss) it shook me to the core and left scars to my usual badass professional self esteem.

      You are a rockstar. You weren’t the reason they let you go. You worked for jerkbags. It’s easy to take these things so personal but each job is fresh and a new chance to work with a different path set in front of you.

      Be kind to yourself. Give yourself time to process the new surroundings.

      1. AudreyHorne*

        I’m sorry to hear that happened to you but I must admit it’s therapeutic to read that others understand where I am coming from! It’s also therapeutic to know that I’m not alone in thinking I worked for jerkbags haha!!

        Thank you for your kind words :)

  100. Anon for this*

    Any advice for folks caught up in the BB&T / SunTrust merger?
    My mid-sized city has a major corporate presence but apparently everything is moving out of state, and relocating is not an option for my family. So it looks like everyone here will be laid off sometime next year.
    Meanwhile, here I am trying to buy a house. We’ve put it off but kiddo is going to kindergarten in the fall and our school district is Not Good. Spouse’s employment is stable. TBH I am looking at this as an opportunity to change industries but I can’t until we get the mortgage. What to do?

    1. ..Kat..*

      If you cannot afford the mortgage and taxes on just your spouse’s job, it might be better to rent an apartment or house in the area where you are house hunting. Personally, I would make finding a new job a higher priority than buying a house. But, I realize your situation may be different. Good luck – I hope your next job and your new home are wonderful.

  101. AnonyMouse*

    TL;DR- Is paying for a subscription to flexjobs.com worth it?

    I’m starting to think more seriously about pursuing 100% remote positions. The bulk of my work experience is in customer service and data related projects (management, entry, etc), and with everything I’m reading it sounds like these are common WAH positions. But I’m having trouble finding these positions through traditional means. I’ve heard about flexjobs.com, but I’m hesitant about paying for the subscription fee. Has anyone on here done it? Was it worth it?

    I’m also open to recommendations for companies to look into!

    1. Oaktree*

      It depends on your field and your experience. I tried it for a couple of months and didn’t have great success, but that’s because there are seriously limited remote and contract options for my field. But for customer service and data management projects, I think you’d be in good shape, because from what I remember, there were hundreds of those on there. If you’re in the US (I’m not), it will be even better for you. Also, you can use many of their features for free before paying, so it never hurts to just poke around. But yeah, I’d go for it- you can do a three-month subscription to start and I don’t remember it being very pricey.

    2. AudreyParker*

      I concur with Oaktree. You can check out the positions for free, just not see the company details, but it will give you an idea of what they have to offer. I have paid for subscription off and on and it’s been a mixed bag: really depends on what you’re looking for. CS and data-related work you will definitely have more success than I have finding suitable opportunities, though, and I think they have some “exclusive” relationships with certain companies that mean you won’t find the opportunity posted elsewhere. They also have pretty regular discount promotions, so if you can’t find anything just via Google right now, I can guarantee they’ll offer some kind of President’s Day promo for a % off. But even just one month at the regular price is not particularly expensive if you want to give it a try and just set it not to auto-renew, and they offer a lot of resources and webinars for members that you might find helpful as well.

  102. ThatGirl*

    OH I almost forgot. I asked for advice last week about the VP who’s agreed to watch my dog for me in early March – and how to bring up pay. When I confirmed with him when to bring the pup for the meet and greet, I casually said “how does $50 sound?” and he politely said “no money please! it’s only for a night and we’re glad to do it!” so I thanked him and said we may be able to watch their dog in the future. Problem solved.

    2. Bluebell*

      Great news! If the place you are going happens to have any awesome dog treats, maybe bring some back for his dog, in addition to a low key treat for his family (or bottle of wine if that is appropriate)

  103. CopperPenny*

    Does anyone do off site interviews and have location suggestions? I work for a staffing company and we need to do offsite hiring, but we are having problems with location.
    We’ve used our states Department of Labor locations, but the no show rate is abysmal there and we can’t drug screen* We’ve done hotel meeting rooms as well, but it difficult to do drug screens*. We’ve also tried Goodwill Career centers, but we only get general labor there. Does anyone have suggestions?
    *We have to do drug screens, it’s not optional. We specialize in the construction

    1. Anonforthis*

      What about partnering with local trade/vocational schools, if you are targeting the construction industry? I’m sure they have onsite recruiting events.

    2. Quickbeam*

      What about partnering with companies that do commercial long haul trucking? They know the drill on the drug screens. And similar candidate pool.

    3. LGC*

      So I’m just curious – do you have to get the sample DURING the interview? How much more expensive would it be to send the promising candidates to a lab?

      (The last time I had to drug test – holiday season at Target – I got sent to a lab across town before I started.)

  104. Karen from Finance*

    My partner and I are on vacation. We’ve been struggling with keeping work off our minds. For my partner, he manages a team in a high-pressure job, so he brought his work computer with him and has been working from the hotel. He says if he doesn’t do these things, he’s screwing g over his team because they are in a tough situation. I have been trying to talk him through it, I even showed him Alison’s very relevant post from two days ago. He’s been trying to get better at it, looking at his phone less and such.

    Then as we were discussing this I started to get frantic messages from my own grandboss asking me for help, and I had to troubleshoot his problems via text message throughout half of our fancy restaurant lunch. And then, the urgent problem grandboss had was, it turned out, that he wasn’t following the instructions I left for him.

    It’s been two days and I’m still angry at my grandboss for making such a hypocrite out of me, which in turn makes me a bigger hypocrite because I’m still thinking about work in out vacation, the thing I was trying to talk my partner out of.

    Anyone have any advice about.. any of this?

    1. LQ*

      Part of the problem is thinking about work and being a hypocrite and all the rest you mentioned…but part of it is letting bad moments go.

      So you ended up troubleshooting through a lunch. Laugh, say you’re sorry, and focus on the next thing.
      Try to focus on the moments where you aren’t thinking about work and it will make it easier to have them. If you have to spend an hour at the hotel working, do it. But don’t let that hour haunt you for the vacation. Let that hour go and go out and do Thing You Both Love. You had to spend lunch with boss. Make sure that you do Fancy Dinner.

      Forgiveness for yourself and each other is what you need to get through vacation. Deal with the long term problems when you get home. But for now, do your best to just let it go.

    2. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      My advice is to chill on yourself and partner.

      There are tines the advice we try to live by here doesn’t work. The higher you are in a company, the less true off time you get in the end. It’s a trade off situation usually.

      You both should leave devices in the room for lunch or if you’re going on an excursion! You are away, they should be able to live an hour or two between glances for emergencies.

    3. WellRed*

      Your partner is screwing over you if you wanted to have fun and plan things on your vacation and he’s more worried about the team.
      Both of you need to learn to relax, to not be available to work. If you must check in (even if only in your minds), do it at a set time once or twice a day. I personally find that the longer I am on vacation the less likely I am to check in. When I do, I usually regret it.

    4. Kathenus*

      It’s all well and good to say just enjoy your vacation and don’t work. But the reality is that for some people, or in some situations, it’s not that cut and dried and it can be more stressful to completely disconnect – right or wrong. So if for your or your partner’s personal situation, one or both of you chooses to (or has to) work, maybe instead of fighting it or letting it overtake the trip, carve out a period of time each day to check in at work/catch up on needed tasks. That way it’s not seeping into the whole trip, instead work has it’s scheduled period(s) each day, which might let you relax and enjoy the rest of the time and shut off work thoughts for the rest of the day.

    5. ..Kat..*

      If the restaurant issue were to arise again, I would just not reply to grandboss until my meal was over. In fact, could you have turned off your phone for the meal?

      Also, just admit to your husband that you were wrong, did not take your own advice, and that it ruined your lunch. And, it was not a true emergency, grandboss just did not follow your instructions that you left behind.

  105. Over the Bullying*

    I am four months into a job, that I like doing, but am having difficulty with due to management. Its a small mom and pop. This week, I realized there is a lot of workplace bullying in the office, and this week the bullying was directed toward me. Think, ambushed cross examination with public shaming in front of the entire office and a fair amount of psychological manipulation. There have also been many other instances of bullying directed toward my co-workers that make my skin crawl.

    I have decided very proactively that I need to exit. Any advice? Tales of success?

    1. irene adler*

      Work up a good, believable response to “Why are you leaving your current position?” that does not in any way trash your current employer.

      Practice some good self-care to counter the bullying.
      Good luck!

      1. Over the Bullying*

        Thanks you, I’ve been playing the question over and over in my head so many times trying to decide which direction to go.

  106. Atlanta?*

    I’ve been persuaded to apply for a job with a small nonprofit in Atlanta. I’ve never lived or worked south of D.C. What should a potential transplant to Atlanta know about the local work culture? What has surprised you moving there or after moving away? What should a candidate be keeping in mind while evaluating a role & potentially an offer there?

    1. I live in Atlanta*

      Traffic is hellish, and our public transit is not good. Unless you live and work in the city, you’ll need a car. You’ll hear people refer to OTP (Outside the Perimeter) and ITP (inside the Perimeter). Atlanta has an interstate called I-285 that’s basically a large circle. OTP and ITP refer to being located outside or inside 285.

      Are you comfortable sharing what part of town the new job is located in? If you end up relocating, your life will be easier if you can live reasonably close to where you work.

      The north side of 285 is considered more desirable by many people and is priced accordingly. The property taxes in Fulton and DeKalb Counties are high, and their county governments have had various corruption issues over the years. You don’t mention kids, but different areas have better schools than others.

      The cost of living is lower overall than some other metro areas, but if you want to live ITP expect higher housing prices. Gas is generally cheaper in Georgia. Property taxes are lower here than in other parts of the country. The weather is generally good, but understand that when we get ice and snow, the city shuts down. Don’t mock us for it. The state doesn’t have the resources and equipment to treat roads and bridges to the same degree that northern cities do. And we’re much more likely to experience black ice than snow. Summers will be hot and humid. Spring and fall are lovely times of the year, and even in the winter there are many days you won’t need a coat.

      I’ve lived in Georgia all my life and in the Atlanta area over 20 years, so feel free to ask other questions.

      1. Construction Safety*

        Yeah, ditto to all that. And FWIW, the two main N/S drags thru Hotlanta and 75 and 85. Those aren’t the interstate numbers, those are the minimum speeds required when you aren’t at a standstill.

        I live in N. Fulton and drive north to S. Forsyth in the morning. 12 miles about 20 minutes. Evenings stretch it to about 25 minutes. Location, Location, Location.

    2. urban teacher*

      I’ve been here 3 years. I agree about the traffic. I really like the politeness of people here except when they drive. Then they become crazy.The humidity and heat are brutal. The mosquitoes are horrible in summer. I was expecting hot summers but not how brutal it can be.

      The work culture seems more formal than west coast. I teach so I don’t know about other industries.

      1. I live in Atlanta*

        I’ve spent my career in education, not-for-profit, and nonprofit settings in Atlanta, and everywhere has been business casual with casual Fridays.

        The humidity is what will kill you. It’s different than the dry heat you find out west.

        We’re not kidding about the traffic. If you can map routes (yes–you’ll need multiple routes for the inevitable wrecks that close down roads/interstates) that take you the back way or through town so you don’t have to venture on the interstates, you’ll be lucky. Interstate driving here is awful because of the volume and craziness of drivers. Our interstates are in good shape compared to other states (smooth roads for the most part), but there’s constant construction on nights and weekends.

        I eventually found it was going to be cheaper to buy a home than continue renting an apartment, but I live in the suburbs. My mortgage on a 3 bed, 2 bath single family home is less than the cost of a decent 1 bedroom apartment in the Atlanta area (suburb or city).

      2. Lilysparrow*

        I was a child in the South but spent most of my adult life elsewhere. moving back, I was shocked at the way people drive. Not offensive, not defensive, just… kamikaze.

        I have come to believe it’s endemic to the Bible Belt. There are too many people who just aren’t scared to die.

    3. nym*

      When you say “south of DC”, have you been working in DC for much of your career?

      You’ll likely find ATL much more casual in dress and speaking style, with a less frenetic pace overall.

  107. Aspieamy*

    Hi all, new commentor here.
    The internship question from this morning made me think of something. I didn’t do an internship when I was at college because it wasn’t required for graduation for my major. I also didn’t see any internships available and didn’t hear about any of my classmates getting any internships. I haven’t gotten a job in a field related to my major(food science)and I wonder if it might be because I didn’t get an internship.

    1. irene adler*

      Can you find a local chapter of a professional organization in the food science industry? If so, that would be the place to go and ask about how to get a job. They can tell you what you need to do to get a job in the industry.

    2. Anonysand*

      I’m in the same boat as you. We had a choice: you could do a traditional internship, or you could spend those months working on a capstone project related to your area of study. I already worked full time and had bills to pay, so I went with the project and didn’t think much of it until after graduation when I started job hunting. I couldn’t even get an interview for a position in my field until I spent several months volunteering in the same role so I could have something to show for real-world/hands-on experience. But still, it took almost a full year of volunteer work to get to the position I am now (which I’m incredibly thankful for). I often wonder how much easier my life would have been if I could have done the traditional internship.

    3. Sleepytime Tea*

      If internships were really an expectation of the field of work you were going into, they would have been heavily promoted by your university. Your professors would talk about it. Your fellow students would be applying for them. You’d really have to be living under a rock to have not noticed.

      There may be people in your field who did have an internship, and that would be a leg up for them simply because they would have some experience where you don’t have any, but while I don’t know much about food science I’m guessing it isn’t something that is really considered a requirement. I work as an analyst and I have coworkers who had internships and coworkers who didn’t. I didn’t and it has never once come up in a job interview or anything else.

      Do you have any experience in your field that you can put on a resume? It’s a tough employment market right now, with unemployment being so low.

      1. Clisby Williams*

        I have no insight into food science jobs, but I don’t see how low unemployment = tough employment market. Seems to me it would be exactly the opposite.

        1. Sleepytime Tea*

          Well, I guess I meant that low unemployment means fewer candidates. It presents different challenges than a high unemployment market when there are tons of people vying for one position. When people are all employed, they are less likely to be making a change to another job unless they are moving up. Which means that you can have only a few candidates but they are all well qualified. People aren’t making as many lateral moves.

    4. Nice Going Angelica*

      Welcome!

      I’m inferring that you’re a recent graduate? If you’ve been out of school for a few years, it’s probably irrelevant. But for recent graduates, there is definitely an association between doing one or more internships related to your field and being employed upon or soon after graduation. This is true even if an internship is not strictly required for entry into the field. I used to work at a university (large, public, prestigious) where about three quarters of students typically did at least one internship while in undergrad. That being said, it’s definitely not totally determinative; lots of students who did internships didn’t find jobs quickly, and lots who didn’t do internships found jobs just fine.

      So, it could be part of the story, but since (it sounds like) you’ve already graduated and can’t go back in time, I wouldn’t worry about it too much and would focus on ways to beef up your candidacy that you can control, like networking in your field, gaining relevant skills, improving your resume and interview skills, etc.

    5. ..Kat..*

      Does your university have a job center that employers contact looking for new graduates? Is there an Association of Food Science professional association that you can join that can provide job leads?

  108. Mashed potato*

    I got my current job mid year in 2018 and now I found out the techcnical manager im working with is not continuing the contract and I’m applying for jobs to get out because it’s gonna turn to sewage here. I’ve been reading articles and YouTube videos about toxic workplace and I’m pretty sure mine is. Problem is I just started my career and I feel like my experience is not long enough or relevant enough. Welp wish me luck

  109. The Other Dawn*

    I connected with a recruiter on LinkedIn at the suggestion of a former coworker. We haven’t exchanged any messages or pleasantries at all. He messages me today with one sentence that says for me to send my resume in Word. And that’s it. Isn’t PDF the typical format? It makes me feel like he’s going to heavily edit it and shop it around. I have zero experience with a recruiter. Is this standard?

    1. irene adler*

      An ethical recruiter is most likely going to remove your contact info and put his company logo on it. Maybe even put his contact info on it as well. This is so the client can only get in touch with him and not you. No end runs.

      If he does any resume “polishing”, he will share this with you before he submits your resume to the client. And by polishing I mean what a good proofreader might do. Nothing should be changed like job titles, added skills, added degrees, etc.

      He will contact you about a job or client before he submits your resume. He wants to make sure you are on-board with the job opportunity and/or the company. So he’ll share the polished resume with you at that time. You can object to the changes if you don’t like them. But understand, he knows what the client is looking for and will try to align your resume with their wants.

      I’ll tell you this- I really liked the polishing one recruiter did for me. It got me into an interview with a company that I applied to before but was rejected.

    2. Sleepytime Tea*

      Recruiters generally need your resume in Word because they put it on their own company letter head and such. This is a normal request. That said, theoretically they could make changes to it, but that would mean they are sleezy and not doing their job. If you get bad vibes from a recruiter, don’t work with them, but otherwise I wouldn’t worry.

    3. The Other Dawn*

      Thanks to both of you! I’ve never worked with one before so wasn’t sure. Also, I only added him on LinkedIn and didn’t actually message him or anything like that. It just seemed strange to get a one-liner asking for my resume in Word and not even a “hello” or anything at all. Just “Thx, John.”

  110. Careful with my paycheck*

    Sort of a work issue but I’ll be happy to repost tomorrow if you disagree Alison.
    One of my coworkers complains a lot about how expensive things are, I mostly just ignore her. Last week she started in on this during a conversation we were having. This particular tirade was about how the bank is expecting her to put 15% down for a construction loan on the house she and her husband want to build after purchasing the lot. She finally ended her tirade with “Who has that kind of money?!” This really hit me differently than her other tirades because I’m one of those people who does have that kind of money. Through a combination of careful management and good luck (my grandparents made significant gifts to me prior to their deaths) I have a fairly substantial amount in the bank. I have been judged for this several times over my life and I’m afraid that my coworkers will judge me if they find out. Hubby and I try hard to live within the income from my job and not touch most of what we have.
    We recently moved and wanted to have a house warming party. I was thinking of just issuing an open invitation to my office (probably just hang up an invite in the break room), the office is pretty small (20 or so) and I don’t think more than a few would show. Our house is a little nicer than we could typically afford because we were able to increase our downpayment.
    Because of coworker’s comment I’m now very afraid of inviting anyone. I’m right back in the position I’ve been in before, of feeling guilty that my grandparents were careful enough to be able to give me a generous gift and even more guilty that I’ve tried to be careful with my money.
    How do I help myself not feel like this is some terrible secret. Like I have to keep hidden from coworkers that I don’t live paycheck to paycheck.
    I should probably also say that I and the coworkers who made this comment are in a generally well paid industry, our company doesn’t under pay we live in a pretty low cost of living area and her husband is employed in the same industry (mine is a stay at home dad). So neither of us should need to live paycheck to paycheck.

    1. KR*

      There are people who will make tons of money and still live paycheck-to-paycheck – either because they can’t manage their money very well, they have debts or limitations we don’t know about, or bad luck. please have your housewarming party if you want to and show off what you worked hard to purchase. You deserve it and if your coworker is going to judge you and actually let you know she’s judging you she is rude, full stop. Congratulations on your home. I’m dreaming of buying a house lately.

      1. Susie Q*

        This! We have a couple “friends” who constantly complain to us about money. They are very open about their salaries and make $50k more than my husband and I. But they still complain to us nonstop about being broke and how we are so lucky. It’s exhausting because my husband and I work hard and follow a really strict budget to save money and consider ourselves to be fortunate whereas these people are blowing money on a fancy car and crying broke. We are trying to slowly ghost/end this friendship.

        1. pleaset*

          I don’t know what they want from me
          It’s like the more money we come across
          The more problems we see

          I don’t know what they want from me
          It’s like the more money we come across
          The more problems we see

    3. Overeducated*

      If anyone makes comments about your house, say “yes, we love it” or “yes, we’re so fortunate” and leave it at that. Lots of people buy houses that are more than their salary appears to support due to inheritances, lucky investments, high-earning spouses…who even knows. Not knowing the details of other people’s financial situation is something adults have to get used to.

      But living “paycheck to paycheck” and having enough money for a down payment on new construction are not the same thing, so it’s odd to say that because your coworker doesn’t have a certain amount saved, she lives paycheck to paycheck. I have 6 month emergency fund, save for retirement every month, and was fine missing two paychecks last month, so I would say I don’t. At the same time, a 15% down payment in my neighborhood would be almost 2 years’ salary, so no, I definitely can’t afford that! (For that reason, I appreciate it when friends who do buy really expensive real estate mention if they have family help – I don’t judge them at all, it makes me feel like they’re gracious about their good fortune, and they’re doing the kindness of relieving me from wondering if I screwed up somehow by not being able to do the same.)

      1. Careful with my paycheck*

        Sorry I did not mean to imply that my coworker is living paycheck to paycheck, that statement was meant to ward off any speculation that she was complaining about money because she was underpaid for her position or our area (I know that starting salary for her position is well above the average in this area). I guess I didn’t phrase it very well.

        1. Overeducated*

          Ah, I gotcha. Well, you never know what’s going on underneath, nothing to do but nod and smile and not reveal the details of your own finances.

      2. Natalie*

        For that matter, plenty of people are in houses that are bigger than they can seemingly afford because they didn’t put 20% down. The details of your mortgage aren’t public, nobody knows if you scrimped and saved and bought cash, or if you put 3% down and will be paying PMI for ten years after you die.

        1. Overeducated*

          Yup. And then there are the other factors that tie into housing prices and payments – I live in an area where school districts make the difference between whether the same type of house will sell for $300k or $600k, so you can’t necessarily guess how much someone is spending from the appearance of the house.

        2. Clisby Williams*

          The details of your mortgage may very well be public. They were for us, in both GA and SC. Anyone who wants to see the size of our mortgage (when we bought our house – paid off now) just has to go online to the county website, and look it up. Just like they can find out what we paid for our house. They can find out how much we owe in property taxes. None of that is private information.

    4. Ladylike*

      I think your bank accounts and the price of your home fall squarely into “not your coworkers’ business” territory. I would invite the people who genuinely care about you, who are your friends, and who will not take one look at your home and gossip about how much money you have, or how you got it. As a side note, I don’t think a housewarming party is something you for which you want to issue a blanket invitation to your whole office. I think it should be a select number of friends.

    5. Koala dreams*

      Here in Sweden, it’s the law that a mortgage can only be up to 85 % of the price of a house, people need to come up with the 15 % themselves. Some people need to borrow those 15% from family and friends, but a lot of people save up.

      No need to feel guilty over your finances. If you’re afraid of being questioned about morgages and stuff, prepare some phrases before hand, such as “Oh, that’s so boring, let’s look at the kitchen instead” or whatever.

      Also, maybe try taking comments like that less serious? For a lot of people, complaining about things is a way of making small talk, it’s not really about having a serious discussion about the topics.

  111. KR*

    Knock on wood here but I think…. I may actually …. be catching up. I have a few things I am behind on – long-standing projects that always end up on the back burner – but I am actually getting through my shopping list and taking things off the list that have been there for a while (a main function of my job is purchasing) and I have a record low amount of catch up database cleanup, unaddressed emails, and admin to do right now. *KNOCKS VIGOROUSLY ON DESK* I credit this to my New year’s resolution of acting on emails immediately instead of reading them, getting overwhelmed, and putting them off for weeks and weeks.

  112. OfficeOracle*

    I’ve been having a real issue this week with being asked an excessive amount of questions at work. Most of the time I manage it well, since this is an all the time thing, but this week has just been really difficult for some reason. It feels like many, many stakeholders continually rely on asking me questions instead of investigating options on their own, and this gets really frustrating. If I have to do something that I don’t know how to do, I will google for information or experiment a little; if I need to ask someone a question after that, I feel like I at least am able to let them know where I got to on my own, like I am not relying on them to take me 100% of the way.

    I have been trying techniques to deal with it, redirecting people, fighting off the urge to answer implied but not explicitly asked questions, etc., but it is really difficult to implement. There is someone here who is a master at this and whom has successfully distanced themselves from responsibility for inquires from most of our stakeholders. Folks are so well trained that recently someone asking a general question to this person stopped mid sentence when I entered the room to ask me instead; they had looked for me first, but when I wasn’t there turned to my colleague. It wasn’t an area I specialize in; it was a general office operation question. How do I refuse to answer it? I can’t pretend I don’t know, nor would I want to. But it was something the person could have a) tried to figure out on their own easily, with no negative consequences (for example, which switch turns a particular light on and off) and b) could have certainly asked anyone else.

    I feel like I am stuck being Human Google because isn’t one person asking me repeated questions, who I could correct, it is sort of a culture of people who have needs that need to be met and see me as the ticket to meeting them. Meeting them is part of my job, so it isn’t as though I don’t want to do it, but it… it makes me feel like a machine or something. It’s constant issues and needs, and so many of them cross my desk because people see me in that role of problem solver, or they are tossed here by people who don’t want to deal with it themselves. On its own, I wouldn’t have cared about the light switch question; I want people to be comfortable and I am happy to share what I know. There is no way that person could know how many questions like that I get every single day.

    I don’t know that there is a solution to this… maybe I’m just venting. But I appreciate anyone who read this and wants to comisserate or offer wisdom!

    1. coffeeforone*

      This is SO hard and I think something many people deal with, you’re definitely not alone or doing anything wrong.

      I think you should decide first how willing you are to be flexible or not. I struggled with this at work, but being helpful, collaborative and kind are really, really important values to me (professionally and personally) so I’ve decided that I *do* want to help when I can…. but recognize that true “helping” for me means:
      -providing support, but not always the solution
      -setting personal boundaries so that I can continue to support others without burning myself out

      If you feel, either personally or professionally or both, that helping isn’t something that brings you joy (ha!), you might want to take a different approach. For me, my approach is “Explaining How/Where I Would Find the Answer” (or how I would address the problem) and leaving it at that.

      For ex.:
      Q: “Hey Amazing Colleague, I need help! What’s the Office Operations Policy?”
      A: “Happy to help! All the office operations policies are on the company wiki. You’ll definitely be able to find it there and if it’s not posted there, email the operations manager to let him know. Good luck!”

      The key I’ve found isn’t just the “where to find the answer”, but what ELSE they can do if they can’t find the answer. It really traps them :) But if you want to refuse entirely, maybe someone else has a good approach for that.

      1. OfficeOracle*

        Thank you so much for this comment. I think you are right that I need to do a better job of setting boundaries and also resisting the urge to provide solutions. Sometimes it is faster to just do a thing myself, and so I do it to get it over with, which just reinforces people asking. I need to withstand that urge and also learn some way to manage the pressure and guilt feelings for not being everything everyone wants me to be all the time, especially when that they want isn’t the most reasonable thing. I also value being helpful, kind, and collaborative at work and in life, but I think that because I haven’t been good with my boundaries, this becomes a bit of a one way street.

    2. Colette*

      Can you treat it as if they are asking you how they can find the answer? I.e. “I’m not sure, what have you tried?”

      Are you truly expected to answer questions about light switches, or should you be spending your time on more work-related questions?

      1. OfficeOracle*

        That is a good question to ask as well!

        In some ways, I am expected to answer those questions, but I don’t know that our systems were set up to handle the volume of them. We have all noticed an uptick in people not reading communications they are sent that can answer their questions and also people who seemingly need endless amounts of confirmation. So someone may need help with a routine task or question, but those same folks also seem to come back frequently because they have forgotten what to do or don’t feel comfortable doing it without confirming the details. Maybe this is a common thing and the problem is I have been answering them for too long instead of telling them to try it without me.

    3. Quickbeam*

      I feel your pain. I am at the end of my career and have 2 very unique skill sets that are unusual for my industry. I am a consultant but get hammered with basic/off topic/”you already know this” questions that are completely unrelated to my job functions. I am twice the age of my co-workers yet I’ve mastered search functions so I don’t know why they have not. I think you hit on it; it is so much easier to get someone else to do it for you.

      Being so near retirement I kind of blow it off but If I had the opportunity to work from home I’d run at it. Most of my “drive by questioning” happens because it’s an open office plan.

      I feel your pain!

      1. OfficeOracle*

        I am so sorry you are going through this too! I see it from folks who are younger than I am, close in age, or much older, and I also see capable colleagues fall into every age group as well. In the times I’ve had to think about it… it almost seems like a form of procrastination in many instances. Many times these questions that could be solved with common sense/googling/trying a couple of things often seem to be an excuse to stop dead on a task or drop it altogether.

        I would also love a chance to work from home, even half-time, but it is impossible for my type of work. I’m most productive when I’m allowed to be in my own space/on my own time.

    4. Mockingjay*

      “I can’t pretend I don’t know, nor would I want to.”

      Sure you can. It’s fine to set boundaries. A simple negation, “sorry, don’t remember” or redirect, “not sure, have you looked at the office wiki?” All delivered in a pleasant tone with a puzzled look.

      People get lazy about the mundane tasks which are aside from their main focus. On top of that, you’ve conditioned them to expect you to do the research. Just keep deflecting politely; they’ll eventually learn to figure it out on their own.

    5. Kathenus*

      Not sure if this would work for your situation, but could you have an a.m. and p.m. ‘office hours-type’ period where people could ask questions? Send out some sort of general announcement that you get lots of questions and are happy to help when you can, but the frequent disruptions are making it hard to get other work done, so you are asking people to please hold their questions for one of those two times of day so that you can concentrate on other tasks the rest of the time?

      If this would fly at your organization, it might both give you time to concentrate, and might gently nudge people to work on finding their own answers if they don’t want to wait a few hours for the next Q&A session on your schedule.

      1. ..Kat..*

        This is a wonderful suggestion. When pagers first came out, I was constantly paged to answer questions that people could of answered themselves if they thought for a few minutes. It was as if the pager took the place of thinking. I found that if I waited an hour to call back, they had answered the question themselves. So, anything to delay them asking you will (hopefully) encourage/empower them to think for themselves.

  113. Going Anonymous*

    I have a time sensitive question Alison suggested I post here. Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated.

    I’ve been with my company nearly 10 years and plan Teapot Events. The company has great benefits, and I have a decent salary. We have a casual dress code, and my commute is easy. I get to travel occasionally. But I’m burned out. The workload is crushing with no sign of easing up. My team is expected to do more and more with fewer people, and I don’t feel I can safely ask for help or push back on the workload or extra assignments without retaliation from my manager in some way, like a negative performance review or not getting a raise and/or bonus. Still, this is the best job I’ve ever had and I’m terrified to leave. What if the next job is worse? What if I get laid off and lose my house?

    I just saw 2 job postings at a university. One is Teapot Event Manager, the other Senior Teapot Event Manager. The Event Manager position sounds similar to what I do now (exempt, mid-level, non-management). The Senior Manager position would oversee the department of 3 Teapot Event Managers and direct policy of Teapot Events. I have no management experience. Neither posting lists the salary range. The job requirements are also vague, even the Senior Manager position. Based on the limited information contained in the postings, I qualify for either one. I have a certification in my field that’s desirable and often required for senior positions, although these postings don’t mention it as preferred or required.

    I worked at this university on a different campus over 10 years ago but left after 2 years because I hated the department I was in (different division and totally unrelated to Teapot Events). But my last manager still works at the other campus, and I don’t think she would speak well of me, if she even remembers me. I was unhappy and didn’t do my best work. I’m afraid when I have to disclose that I previously worked at the other campus, they’ll talk to her and reject me based on her opinion of me from over a decade ago and when she managed me less than 1 year.

    But my biggest question is, which position do I apply for? Do I stretch and apply for the management position, even though I have no management experience? Do I play it safe and make what’s likely a lateral move? I know from working there before that the university offers generous benefits, and the commute would be similar to what I have now. But there wouldn’t be any travel, and I like the occasional travel I do now. I also love planning events. I’m not sure I’d be happy with a managerial role where I set policy rather than actually got to plan events.

    From LinkedIn sleuthing, I found that the 2 current Event Managers are likely younger than me, based on their work history and graduation dates. That leads me to think the Event Manager position would be a lateral move or possibly a reduction in salary (which I wouldn’t accept) and that maybe I should go for the management position.

    1. Minerva McGonagall*

      In my area, universities pay lower than corporate for similar positions mostly because of the additional benefits. So the Event Manager position could likely be a reduction in salary. Higher ed is pretty notorious for not sharing the salary range-either it’s coded and you can only access the chart if you have a log in, or it’s unlisted. Sometimes they’ll mention it in a first email or interview, but sometimes it’s the last thing they bring up. However, bringing in the experiences that you already have outside of higher ed, the certification, the travel, and the event history, I think you should go for the Senior Event Manager position. Check Glassdoor to see if there are any other Manager/Senior Manager positions listed to maybe get an idea of potential ranges.

      1. ..Kat..*

        If it is a state university (i.e., government paid), I think the salaries are supposed to be in the public domain. Not sure how to access this info however.

    2. Colette*

      I’d say you should apply for the management position, except for this: “I also love planning events. I’m not sure I’d be happy with a managerial role where I set policy rather than actually got to plan events.”

      You should apply for the event manager position, since it’s the work you want to do.

    3. Oaktree*

      If you’re worried it would look bad to apply for both, I’d go for the senior one. It’s always possible that if they’re worried you’re not totally qualified for the senior position, they may offer you the regular one instead, in which case you have an offer to consider either way.

    4. Not a Real Giraffe*

      Can you tell if these two positions are on the same team or in the same department? If they are, it’s possible they’ll consider you for both roles if you apply for the higher-level one — or you could apply for the higher-level one and indicate in your cover letter that you are open to the other role if they deem it a better fit.

      As a former university event planner, I can say that you will probably still be involved in the actual event planning in the senior role.

      Regarding your former manager’s reference – yes, this is a possible outcome. But it’s also likely that she won’t be contacted until you’re at the reference stage, at which point you will have had the opportunity to explain why she would not be a good reference.

      Good luck!

    5. Another event person*

      I wanted to say that I SO sympathize with you in regards to the workload in this industry. One of the reasons I no longer do it FT is not having work-life balance. I really hope that you find it in your next role, either at this university or somewhere else but I hate to say that from experience, it’s not likely to happen. It’s unfortunately the nature of the industry. It’s a shame because, like you, I love the actual planning process.

      Also, are you sure that management would only be setting policy? In my past job, the managers had a lot of responsibility overseeing the actual planning but less of the “talking to the vendors and ordering things on Amazon” They were more of the “What are the big ideas for Event Z? Perhaps we can consider Photo Vendor P.”

    6. Blue Eagle*

      My experience has been that if you apply for the higher position and don’t have the experience they want but they like your resume, you may be considered for the lower position. On the other hand if you apply for the lower position and have more experience than needed, it is unlikely that they will consider you for the higher position.

      This has been my experience and my colleagues experience, but as always YMMV.

    7. Sleepytime Tea*

      Well I would think about what you REALLY want to do. Are you truly interested in going into management? If you sit down and think about it and decide that you don’t want to give up the actual planning part of your job because that’s what makes you happy, then don’t go for the senior position. (Personally, I have determined I am uninterested in management. Partly because I love the work I do and don’t want to give it up, but partly because I don’t want to deal with the bureaucracy and frankly dealing with people’s interpersonal issues is not something I want to live with.)

      If you are thinking it’s time to advance your career and you really want to give management a shot, then apply for the senior position. In your cover letter you can explain that you are also interested in the lower position. I can’t say I’m 100% sure of the best way to word this because you don’t want to come off as not being confident that you could handle the management position and you wouldn’t want to say “just in case I’m not qualified” and make it seem like you’re not confident in your qualification. There’s some word play you’ll have to go through on that. But if it’s 100% for sure on the same team, then your resume will be going to the same hiring manager most likely, and that increases the chances that if they like what they see for the lower level position they may just automatically consider you for it.

      As far as your old manager, don’t mention it unless they bring it up. If they have a recruitment system, which they probably do, then you will probably already exist in it as a former employee and so they will know that you worked there previously. Will they ask your manager from a decade ago what they thought? Maybe. But a good hiring manager isn’t going to be super interested in a 10 year old reference. They will care much more about current references. Things change so much in that amount of time.

      And remember, you’re just applying. If it doesn’t work out it’s not some horrid black mark against you until the end of time. If you don’t get it it’s not like you’ve already given up your current job.

      Good luck!

    8. LadyGrey*

      Are there any contact details on the job openings? Call and ask for more details, then use that information to decide.

      You said you’d worked there before- is there anyone you could talk to who might know more about the positions?

  114. Not My Money*

    My current assistant is having a lot of trouble with the details of the work and in our talk yesterday he told me I needed to tell him every time I found an issue. Fine, ok. But I tried that a couple of weeks ago and it seemed like our only conversations were me telling him what I’d found wrong. It was uncomfortable for both of us but he doesn’t seem to realize that. How do I balance “these things are all wrong” with “here’s the 2 or 3 things that aren’t”?

    1. this?*

      If you say “these things aren’t wrong,” will he still hear “this is what you need to fix?”

      If so, say something like “It seems like you are getting the hang of the FML report in ways X and Y. Now, on the WTF report, here are some changes I’d like you to make….”

    2. ..Kat..*

      Is this a job where having detailed lists of steps for doing his job will help him improve? If so, I would tell him to make lists of steps for certain frequent tasks. Then, you see if you can improve the lists for him. Improving the lists can be an ongoing thing as you realize that if he included Step X, he would be making fewer errors.

      Can you notice when he improves on something that was previously corrected?

  115. Camellia*

    My daughter is awesome.

    In December she accepted a position of Teapots Manager, with an appropriate salary, and when she got there her first day they told her that they had restructured the job and it was now Teapots Admin at SIGNIFICANTLY less money (which ended up being only about $100 a week over what she was receiving from unemployment) and did she still want the job?

    No, she didn’t scream, cry, or assault anyone. Since it was $100 more a week than unemployment, she took the job and of course continued her job search. She called me earlier this week to share horror stories from this job and to tell me about some interviews she had had. One interviewer, she said, asked some really great questions, and she has a follow-up interview scheduled for next week. I said, oh, so nothing along the lines of “What kind of tree are you?” She said no, but when she interviewed for a prior job the interviewer did ask her what kind of flower she was.

    Her reply? “I’m not a flower, I’m a prickly cactus that can thrive on anything!”

    He said, “I like that reply!” She worked there for four years, ending up as a director over personnel and accounts in five states.

    Awesome.

  116. KatieKate*

    Everyone always says look for a mentor, but how have you all found a mentorship relationship to be beneficial? I have the opportunity to be paired with a mentor in my field, but I don’t know what I would get out of it. I have no set long term career goals, and I have other non-mentor people in my life I trust for random career advice (peers, my parents, this website.) What am I missing?

    1. joboffer*

      Mentors can be helpful if they have connections in your field or industry. They may also have more knowledgable or field-centric guidance.

    2. No Tribble At All*

      First, I’m glad you have other mentor-y figures in your life. Industry-specific mentors can be helpful because they know your field! Something like, if you get Masters degree X that can lead to A, B, C, but Masters degree Y only leads to Z. Or, we’re looking for a lot of people with backgrounds in this right now, so you should go for that. They can tell you if a company has a good reputation, both technically and for personnel. I’ve never had a formal mentoring program work out for me, but my former boss is still very much a mentor to me, and he’s been invaluable as I’ve moved from my first role to another role at the company.

  117. coffeeforone*

    Am I supposed to tell my boss about my employee’s mental health issue disclosure?

    My workplace doesn’t have a ton of training in this regard and I’m a new manager, but I have worked in mental health service orgs so I felt overall confident about responding to employee’s disclosure. We talked about what it meant for her, if she needed accommodations, etc. She said it wasn’t in a place where she felt she needed a “formal” accommodation (ie. let’s meet with HR), but there are little things like occasionally leaving early to make a therapy appointment or working from home while adjusting to meds.

    Scheduling freedom is very accepted in my company culture, so I wouldn’t normally inform my boss she’s working from home (boss can see this info herself in Slack), but I should be telling my boss about this conversation, so she understands the context of employee’s work at the moment? Or is that an invasion of her privacy? My employee and my boss also have a pretty meh relationship (just them talking to each other reads a bit awkward and stunted, like they just don’t jive as people). I feel like as a manager, I should already know the answer to this, but I’m finding my way in the dark and any help would be appreciated :(

    1. She's One Crazy Diamond*

      Just say your employee has a medical condition and leave it at that. It gets the message across while protecting her privacy.

    2. Ihmmy*

      I wouldn’t bring it up if your company culture is already quite flexible about time. If your boss inquires you could say the employee has some medical appointments and leave it at that. It doesn’t sound like there’s any need for your boss to know more detail than that.

    3. Sleepytime Tea*

      No. Your employee disclosed to YOU, that is not permission to disclose to anyone else, including your boss. If you normally wouldn’t tell your boss that someone is working from home, don’t start making a point of it now. If your boss asks you specifically about why this employee is working from home more often or something like that, then you can say that they are handling some things at the moment and are letting them take advantage of the scheduling freedom normally afforded to everyone else. If the employee’s work becomes a concern, then it might be a bit of a different story, but otherwise, keep the conversation you had confidential.

      1. ..Kat..*

        This. Your employee disclosed to YOU, not anyone else. Keep these issues private. If you ever feel like you need to disclose to your manager in order to assist your employee, get her permission first.

    4. Cartographical*

      You might, if you follow up with your employee, clarify that you will NOT be bringing this to your boss unless whatever specific conditions apply such as the employee gives you permission to do so — in the event that she has that sudden jolt of “oh, what if Boss-boss knows?” or she assumes that it will be passed up the chain or something changes and she’s dreading having the disclosure conversation yet again. If you’re a new manager, you might be able to ask someone senior how they handle those things before checking in with her?

      I only mention the matter of clarification as the person once in the employee’s shoes who assumed that once my manager knew everyone else further up the organization would be informed by default. I went around feeling a bit like I had a scarlet letter on me until my manager followed up in this manner — likely because she’d been reminded (by one of my numerous errors) that it was my first time in a real workplace.

  118. joboffer*

    I just received a job offer and have until next Tuesday to inform company A. I asked company B if I was still in consideration and their timeline earlier this week, and they just asked for references (on Friday AM) and said next steps would be available on Monday. I’m not entirely sure I would take company B’s offer, but it’s right up there with company A. Can I still alert company B and inform them of my timeline? Thanks!

  119. She's One Crazy Diamond*

    Just got engaged and definitely taking my husband’s name in a few months (please no comments about how I’m not being a strong feminist, I have a last name that is two words, extremely difficult to spell, and associated with an ethnic group that is hugely discriminated against in my home country, so I have my reasons). Can anyone who has been there let me know what to expect in terms of professional implications? I am in my mid 20s and in a somewhat entry level role so I don’t have a ton of publications under my maiden name or anything, but I’m sure there are things I’m not expecting and I don’t love surprises.

    1. Susie Q*

      I just got married and changed my last name in fall 2018. The big thing that I’ve done is changed my signature on my email to First Name (Maiden Name) Married Last Name and I’ve also done this on Linkedin as well. I also reached out to key customers to let them know that I changed my name and what my new last name is (they were expecting this because they all knew I was getting married and planning on changing my name). Where I have had the most issues is the work I do with a federal agency because they still haven’t changed my name everywhere which is limiting my work. So it’s more of a red tape annoyance that will go away shortly (and one of the reasons why I left working as a govie).

    2. Temperance*

      The vast majority of women in straight marriages take their husband’s last name. You’ll be fine.

      It depends on your individual workplace and career goals. Some other women attorneys I know do the Firstname OriginalLast HusbandLast thing for a while.

    3. BugSwallowersAnonymous*

      Congratz on your engagement! I think if you present it to your coworkers/bosses like it’s not a big deal, in a tone of “Just wanted to give you a heads up that after June my name will be X” they’ll probably see it as no big deal. And if they do give you pushback, that’s very weird of them and you don’t have to explain or justify.

    4. Daisy Avalin*

      Certainly in the UK, there would be no professional implications or repercussions, whether you take his name or keep your own! Just remember to note on your cv/resume that your name in your previous job was your maiden name maybe, so they don’t get confused?

    5. LQ*

      I think you’ll be fine. I would say though don’t be surprised if someone (HR, IT) gets annoyed or snippy or even says it’s not possible to change your name in their systems. (They shouldn’t, but sometimes they do.) I’m just bringing it up so that you can have a way you want to approach it if they do get that way. (It’s the thing I as a hates surprises person would want to know, they may push back, if they do how do I want to approach that.)

    6. Lilysparrow*

      Keep an eye on benefits things, like health insurance and retirement plans. Your HR department will usually put in the name-change request, but sometimes the provider doesn’t process it in a timely way (or at all). I encountered multiple layers of bureaucracy and had to re-submit support documents several times trying to get this done.

  120. Dotty*

    Does anyone have any experience or advice applying for a high level internal role? Like how to handle questions from colleagues and direct reports on whether you’re applying? And how to stand out in an interview without getting distracted by knowing your competitors..?

  122. anon worker*

    We are in the middle of switching a system and several departments use different parts of the system but what they do can affect the other departments. This switch has brought out a lot of animosity and accusations, and no listening to each other at all, and coming into any issues already accusing the other department. I am tasked to get us all on the same page and talking to each other…any suggestions how to do that? I’ll take books/articles suggestions as well.

  123. licoricepencil*

    Hi all, hoping this isn’t already buried.

    TL;DR version: My (soon-to-be old) manager just got promoted to a senior position, and she’s encouraging me to apply to her old role. However, I’ve never held a management position before. What’s the best way to frame my resume/cover letter to show I could do the role even if I haven’t had the most direct experience?

    Longer version: I’ve been working in my role for about 7 months, and my manager was recently promoted to a senior position. When I asked about backfilling the role in our one-on-one, because we’ve had some turnover recently and we’re still trying to fill some lower-level positions too so I was wondering about coverage, she immediately enthusiastically asked if I was interested in applying. Since she was so upbeat about it, I’ve kind of rolled with it and asked her questions about the position, what she liked about it, and signed up for project management and leadership classes our company offers that she recommended as being helpful to her.
    However, I haven’t really done this type of work before, and the team she has now is about 6 direct reports (including me), so I’m wondering if this is way too big a leap to apply for. My manager has told me that she’s interviewing all internal applicants, and she thinks that it’ll be good experience for me to get in front of leadership and “see what happens.” I’m not sure if what I’m feeling is Imposter Syndrome (I had a really great midyear review and, hey, my manager has been really enthusiastic about me applying to this so who knows), or a gut reaction that’s closer to the mark (I haven’t been doing this work for long so all I’ll get is the courtesy interview where I’ll flounder a bit from not having the needed experience).

    Any advice would be great! Thanks commentariat!

    1. Dotty*

      Some questions to consider:
      Do you think you would enjoy the work?
      If her job had been posted without her saying anything, would you have wanted to go for it?
      Is there anyone – a peer outside the main team – you trust to ask about your potential fit for the role (that depends how well they know you and the role of course)?
      Would she still be your boss in the new position?
      If so, I’d take it as a good sign that’s she’s encouraging you, it’s not in her interest to encourage someone she didn’t think was the right fit. If she wouldn’t be managing or otherwise working with you in the new role then maybe consider what you know about your manager otherwise – is she normally considered in her feedback or does she tend to be a people pleaser? You could also ask her what it took to be successful in the role, what was the hardest part, etc.
      A little imposter syndrome is natural – the main thing to think about is whether you would want the job, if you do then go for it. It could be a good move and if someone else gets it then you’ve nonetheless shown you’re interested to progress and given yourself some valuable experience in interviewing.

      1. licoricepencil*

        Thanks for the questions to consider! Very helpful ways to frame it. :)

        Some answers:
        – I probably would have considered it as it’s the next level up from this position, it’s just the people managing rather than data managing track. I probably wouldn’t have applied though since I haven’t been here a year, and the company strongly prefers that employees are there a year before they’re considered for promotion.
        – She would be my direct manager in the new position. If I stayed in my current position, she’d be two roles up the chain. We’ve actually discussed some of the things that you mentioned re: success in the role, what she found challenging, etc.

        1. ..Kat..*

          Ask about training for the new role.
          Also, ask about the new salary for the new role.

          Are you really interested? It sounds as if most of the enthusiasm is coming from your old boss.

    2. Susie Q*

      Every manager is a first time manager at some point.

      When I made the move, in my resume I highlighted projects and work where I had been the unofficial leader/organizer. So even though I didn’t officially manage anyone, I had been an unofficial project manager which required similar skills as a manager. I highlighted those experiences and in my cover letter, I emphasized what I had learned from them.

      If your “old” manager is encouraging you to apply, I would take that as a good sign that you should apply!

  124. Jane Smith*

    This may be a weird question but how much sleep do you need to function at a fulltime job? I’ve just started a fulltime job (160 h/m) last month from previous parttime job (130 h/m) and I am just so tired. At first I chalked it up to getting used to the new job but it can’t still be that. It is just hard mentally going to bed earlier when I am a night owl.

    1. Birch*

      Totally depends on you and also what kind of strain your job puts on you. Is your new job in a different field or a higher position? Do you use your brain a lot? YMMV, but in my experience mentally or emotionally challenging jobs are just flipping exhausting. Several years ago I had a fulltime job that started at 6.30am but it used precisely half a brain cell so I had tons of mental energy left over to work on my PhD in the evenings and got up at 5am with no problem. I’m also a night owl! Right now I’m working 160-170 hours a week as a postdoc with zero other commitments and a flexible start time and I can’t get enough sleep. Like 10 hours is not enough. Same thing happened when I was teaching.

      It may take a while but you’ll get used to it, and be nice to yourself in the meantime. A month is really not that long to get used to a whole new schedule, and onboarding can be exhausting too if there are a lot of new things to keep track of!

      1. valentine*

        Can you move your work hours later?

        Either way, if you’re sleeping 8 hours, go up to 10 or 12 for three to four weeks. If you feel good, go down to 11 for another three weeks, if still good, 10. Maybe you will find you do need 9 or 10 hours, or you just need more until you adjust to working the new hours. If this doesn’t work and you never feel refreshed or are struggling to stay awake at or after work, take a sleep disorder quiz and see about getting assessed.

    2. blink14*

      Is your start time at the new full time job earlier than your old one? My natural sleep cycle is 1 am – 10 am, which is isn’t conducive to most job hours. I get up at 6:45 am during the week, and I sleep heavily from about 5 am to 8 am, which means I’m waking up during my heaviest sleep period. It’s brutal and by the end of the week I’m exhausted, even if I go to bed early (meaning like 10 pm vs 11 or 11:30 pm).

      I also have some chronic health issues that make me more tired anyway, so I always plan to have one totally free weekend day at least every few weeks to rest and sleep in. This kind of maintains my exhaustion level, but honestly, I don’t really feel truly rested unless I’ve been on vacation for about a week (and by the end I’ve reverted to my natural sleep cycle, just in time to head back to work, of course).

    3. WomanOfMystery*

      I went part-time to full-time two years ago and it honestly took me, like, 3 months to adjust! Take a nap if you need to, make sure your iron levels are okay, and you’ll be fine!

    4. Lilysparrow*

      I need a minimum of 7 hours to feel right, just in normal life. When I was doing FT work in an office setting, it was closer to 8.

  125. Anonish*

    I am very newly pregnant and going back and forth on when to tell my team. Ordinarily I’d wait the normal 10-12 weeks but we’re all going on a week-long international business trip together at the end of the month (my doctor is fine with me going) and explaining not drinking for that length of time is going to be weird. Plus (on a more serious note) if something goes wrong medically it would be good to feel like I’m not totally on my own in a foreign country. On the OTHER hand, if nothing goes wrong and I can fall back on the old “I’m on antibiotics” for the length of the trip, my preference would be not to have to tell them for at least another couple of weeks. Thoughts? Have you ever been in this situation and what did you do?

    1. Owlish*

      Is there one person on your team you can trust to not tell everyone? That way you have the emotional back up in case of a medical emergency? Preferably a woman. Alternatively, a problem is unlikely, and if it does happen, it will be just as easy to ping your team, tell them you need to see a doctor, or go to your hotel room, or what not, and explain at the time.

      As far as the drinking goes, you could also say that you aren’t drinking because you have other medications than an antibiotic, or blood tests, or even just trying to get pregnant, and don’t want to risk it. I drank a soda with lemon last night at an event, and of course everyone asked me if I was pregnant. But, I, A, didn’t want to drink, and B, have given up drinking on weekdays. I hate that its such a big deal. Ugh.

      1. Anonish*

        My team is ALL men except for me and one other woman, but I like her a lot and I had thought of just telling her. To be honest, I think they will suspect something seeing me not drinking no matter what I say, because we’re all people who enjoy a drink or two normally, especially on trips, but two of them have kids themselves and will probably have the tact not to say anything.

        1. ..Kat..*

          As a nurse, I can tell you that in all medical emergencies (at least in the USA) all women of child bearing age are tested for pregnancy. It is just a basic lab test that is done on these women.

          Also, congratulations.

          Also, if you tell someone, expect it to leak out to others.

    2. Susie Q*

      I ended up telling my boss around 6 weeks because I was sick multiple times day. Most of my coworkers guessed but didn’t say anything until I officially announced it around week 14.

      I personally would not tell someone until I was further long without reason.

      If you’re Christian, you could always say you’re giving up drinking for Lent and want to get a head start since Lent starts at the beginning of March. I’ve had several friends use Lent as an excuse.

      1. Anonish*

        Hah, that’s a good thought but I’m Jewish so giving something up for Lent would be even stranger to my coworkers than not drinking! At the moment I’m leaning towards just telling my one female coworker. I have my first ultrasound a few days before we leave, so if that looks good I’ll feel better about telling someone.

    3. Cambridge Comma*

      I told people I’d picked up a parasite that was giving me nausea etc. It’s weird enough that people believe you. And it feels a bit true in the first trimester.
      If you go with the antibiotics story you may as well walk in with a big sign say ‘bun in this oven’.
      If you can, fake drink, so get a tonic water served like a G&T. Doesn’t work if you do rounds, though.

    4. Cheesesteak in Paradise*

      I read somewhere about a madmen era sales guy who would chat up potential clients at happy hours while drinking water in a martini glass with olives.

      So you could probably fake drinking especially cocktails. Say wine gives you a migraine.

    5. Jasnah*

      You could say that you don’t want alcohol to upset your traveler’s stomach, or it’s part of a temporary diet to keep you regular while you’re traveling, or that you’re jet lagged and it’ll make you fall asleep/mess with your sleep, or that you’re just not feeling it and want to focus on the trip and having a good time… basically any version of “my body is being weird and I don’t feel like alcohol will help. But let’s have fun anyway!”

      I’ve used some version of this at many events for a variety of reasons (none of them pregnancy though) and if anyone urges you, just double down on “eh, not feeling it” or “looks good, but my body says no”. Shouldn’t be weird!

  126. Mid-size municipal worker*

    Mostly due to the state changing allocation of tax revenue a few years ago, the city I work for has money problems. One way of reducing costs was an Early Separation Program that council passed late last year. To qualify, one had to be working for the city for at least 10 years; the payouts were actually pretty good for a city. One had to apply by January 31, leave by March 31, and the positions won’t be backfilled for at least 4 months (the cost saving part.)

    Enter the law of unintended consequences. Certain workgroups are being gutted. Our telecommunication group of 3 will be down to one – and he only has a couple of years’ experience. Our water and sewer laboratory is losing 40% of the analysts; farming out what they do is going to cost us $14,000/month. After March 31, our Public Works purchasing group will only have an admin person, all the buyers will be gone. Public Works has positions that are general city funded and those that are completely funded by user fees – the utilities are in good financial shape because they are completely funded by user fees. Of the 13 people in PW leaving, zero are general fund, so no anticipated saving.

    Even though all three of us in my group are eligible, none of us are taking the offer. So we get to sit back and watch the world burn.

  127. Awkward Exit Interviews*

    How do you handle confrontational exit interviews?

    I do the exit interviews for my agency. It’s a mostly informal process – we gather some tracking data, but I’m asking questions about their experiences in leadership, training, and other general areas with the goal of improving processes, retention, etc. I recently had one go strangely…The departing employee was spot-on with some issues, but she was also so far off on a few specific items (for example, airing a disagreement with a recent agency purchase because of the price – which she had inflated by at least 100%) that I provided her with the correct information. It was all professional – no yelling or screaming – but when I considered it later, I think that she came in with the intention of telling me off (as an agency rep, not me personally). It didn’t go that way when I was able to show her some information that she’d not had prior…so it all ended…weirdly. Maybe I shouldn’t have bothered? There’s still value in what she said – we need to improve some communication! – so should I have just let her talk anyway?

    Any advice on how to handle these things in the future?

    1. Sleepytime Tea*

      I don’t think there’s value in trying to correct an exiting employee. In an exit interview, which my HR rep wanted my director to be included in, left an extremely bad taste in my mouth when it turned into my director trying to correct everything I said. It just gives you the feeling that no one really cares what your thoughts are and that you’ve wasted your time. I happen to believe in the whole “feedback is a gift” thing. So take any feedback that someone gives you. If what you’re learning is that employees are wildly misinformed about something, that is valuable feedback. There is nothing to be gained by correcting them, and instead you could end up alienating someone who was leaving on good terms and now has less pleasant things to say about your company than if they just felt listened to and appreciated.

      2. Gumby*

        I would completely agree about anything even remotely subjective, but I don’t think it’s off base to correct factual things like the price of something. Not in a confrontational way, but a gentle, “I’m pretty sure the doohickey actually cost $x. Is there anything other than the expense that worried you? Is there something in the purchasing process that should be improved?” feels ok to me.

  128. I work on a Hellmouth*

    Hell-o from the Hellmouth! Before I get to the update, I wanted to take a minute to thank everyone for all of the comments and emails filled with advice and encouragement. They’ve kind of been a life raft for me. Even if I didn’t get to respond to as many comments as I would have liked, please know that I read and internalize them all. Thank you. Because so many people have suggested it, I’ve gone ahead and started setting up a blog, where I can tell more detailed Hellmouth stories (and also because so many have suggested it, I will probably link it to a Patreon account and/or put a tip jar button on it to help fund Hellmouth escape-age, but content will be available to everyone regardless). I don’t have enough content written yet to link to it, but I should hopefully have stuff for anyone who wants to read it by next week (I’ll link to it then). And hey, if anyone has any Story Time requests, let me know!

    And now, on to the Hellmouthing. So, this week has been jam packed with the usual. If you’ve been reading these updates for a bit, you may remember that a few weeks back I was raked over the coals for not depositing checks that I did not know about. I was written up for it yesterday. There also has been a marked uptick this week in residents and just-moved-out former residents coming in to yell at me, sending their moms in to yell at me, psycho calling me, tricking me into three way calls with collection agents, and in general stalking me like I’m the last mouse on Cat Island. The War on Children seems to have morphed into The War on Residents in the Business Center, with my boss turning the heat in the BC up to 85 degrees whenever she notices anyone using it. The person who followed me to the red light that time and had the guns and DUFFLE BAG FILLED WITH HUNTING KNIVES stolen? Their car was stolen this week. My boss is now setting elaborate traps “for criminals” and has actually chastised sherif deputies for not being more grateful for her help. Actual words she said: “Do you not realize that I am your partner in fighting crime?”

    I could not make this stuff up if I wanted to.

    There was a terrible shooting at a property just down the road from us this week, which my boss seems to think is fodder for many “hilarious” jokes. But the new leasing consultant, McGruff, has been giving her stiff competition in who can say the most horrible things. It’s like a Racist/Homophobic/Horrible Person Olympics up in here. Some examples: My boss started talking about “Dot Indians vs Feather Indians,” McGruff countered by insisting on referring to a resident whose name she didn’t know as “Flava Flav.” My boss mused out loud about whether she should name some videos that she was going to give to the police of guys walking around the property “Jackboys 1 & 2” or “Thug 1 & Thug 2,” and McGruff mused out loud that she would need to stay away from certain openly gay residents because “women always hit on her.” I could go on, but… I’m sure you get the picture. It’s bad. I’m pushing back when they say this stuff, but they seem to be oblivious to it.

    And that’s the week in a nutshell. Drama, crime, and terrible people being terrible. Again.

    1. Danger: GUMPTION AHEAD*

      On the plus side, no squirrels (living or dead), bees (of the non-human form), or wasps. In fact, an alomost tame week by Hellmouth standards. Hopefully it isn’t gearing up to be double fun next week!

      Can’t wait to read your blog and fingers crossed on GTFO of there

        1. Move Over Thrawn - Florian Munteanu is BIGGER than you!*

          Oh, now you KNOW those ebil ba******** are plotting something big. PS: I had to scroll through a lot of posts to get here. Been waiting all week for my next installment of weird.

    3. Karen from Finance*

      Yay at you setting up the blog, hopefully it leads to better things.

      And I agree that this almost sounds tame by Hellmouth standards, but I’m getting a chuckle out of your boss fancying herself the local Batgirl (Squirrelgirl?)

    4. Deranged Cubicle Owl*

      I do hope you find another job soon. While I am always looking for your updates, I do wish you a nice quiet and calm job asap, better for your health (both mentally as phisically). Because yeah, you do work on a Hellmout. o_O

      1. I work on a Hellmouth*

        I have to say, I’m looking forward to the day where a week like the past one wouldn’t register as being a relatively calm one. :)

    5. Bee's Knees*

      I have a deep and burning desire to hear some of this from your boss’s perspective. The lockdown of the business center, what I’m assuming are home alone esque but less effective traps, all of it. So many questions.

      If you have a copy of your write up, you could frame it, and whenever your next job gets a normal level of crazy, you can look at that and be grateful.

      1. I work on a Hellmouth*

        My boss actually narrates her actions, sometimes! The general gist is “I’m gonna crack down on these fools and jackboys and they won’t know what hit them!” Every time she sets a new trap, we get to hear about how the kids/residents/criminals will never see it coming.

        She also has schemes. For example, she suspects one particular resident of being unsavory, so every time someone from law enforcement visits us she asks them for an extra business card. Then leaves it by the resident’s door in hopes of scaring him.

        1. Solidus Pilcrow*

          Your boss sounds like a cartoon villain. I’m imagining Snidely Whiplash.

          The business card thing, wow, that’s some next-level passive aggression there.

              1. CubeKitteh*

                I think it’s standard practice for all bumbling villains to monologue about their great plans for wor-I mean, business center take over. I really hope you make it out soon!

        2. Shark Whisperer*

          haha, does she just place it on the ground near the resident’s door? Business cards are so small. Does the resident even notice? I can’t imagine anyone, even a known criminal, being intimidated by that.

          1. I work on a Hellmouth*

            That’s exactly what she does, although she’s been talking about actually sticking them IN the door next to see if that will get more of a “response.”

    6. revueller*

      i’m so sorry per usual for your woes at work but “stalking me like i’m the last mouse on Cat Island” drove me to tears.

      “Do you not realize that I am your partner in fighting crime?” BOY HOWDY
      “McGruff countered by insisting on referring to a resident whose name she didn’t know as ‘Flava Flav.'” AAAAAA

      Wishing you luck in your job search so you can eventually GTFOT.

      1. I work on a Hellmouth*

        McGruff also likes to demand stuff be lent or flat out gifted to her. I’ve known her for less than two weeks. My boss is horrible, but McGruff is unsettling.

    7. Jules the 3rd*

      1) I come to Fridays looking for your updates, so yay on the blog/patreon! Srsly, you should write a book.
      2) It took me four minutes to understand the ‘dot vs feather’ , and I had to google jackboys. wow. WOW.

      Don’t kill yourself on the pushing back, tho – they don’t respect you enough to think about their behavior. Do it when it makes you feel better, but be safe. Your mgr / coworker are not safe people.

      2. Hallowflame*

        This!
        Do not feel obligated to push back on these people’s racism when there is a less than zero chance of improving their behavior and a greater than zero chance of them deciding that you’re ruining their fun, thus encouraging them to step up their efforts to get rid of you. They are saying these things out of racism and prejudice, not ignorance, so your push-back won’t do much good here.

    8. The Tin Man*

      I always look forward to your updates, though the one I look forward to the most is the I ESCAPED update. It will come!

      No wonder Boss and McGruff are such good friends though, they can bond over being awful! And is cranking the heat in the business center so nobody uses it? I picture a room with a computer or two and a desk where people can get work done that seems like a perk to residents that Boss doesn’t want them to use, is that right?

      1. I work on a Hellmouth*

        Yep, basically! She doesn’t crank the heat until someone goes in to use it, though–she wants it at a normal temperature when we’re touring prospective residents.

        1. Gumby*

          Presumably the business center contains computers. Cranking up the heat is… not the recommended course of caring for your electronics.

          1. I work on a Hellmouth*

            It is not. Also, the gym and the bathrooms are on the same system, so… it does not smell so great when she does this. Nor is it pleasant when you have to go pee.

    9. Weegie*

      Just wanted to let you know that I scroll down all the Friday posts to read yours first before scrolling back up & reading all the others! It’s awful that you have such a terrible job, but I hope you can take something good from your ability to articulate the sheer horror of it so amazingly. Hope you get a WAY better job soon, but in the meantime I’m looking forward to reading the blog. And the novel. Then seeing the movie.

    10. Anonforthis*

      OMG…I have no words! Flava Fav?! Dot Indians v. Feather Indians? WTAF?
      I’m thinking maybe you could pull together all your past posts to get your blog started? Just a thought.
      I’m keeping you in my thoughts and sending good vibes your way that you will soon land a wonderful new job (or even just a less terrible new job).

      1. Cotton Headed Ninny Muggins*

        Agreed! I would re-read past entries if they were reposted to the official Hellmouth blog.

      2. I work on a Hellmouth*

        I was thinking that I might give some of the stories that have only been briefly mentioned more in depth treatments. Maybe the Revenge Pooper, or methhead who held the office hostage for an hour. I definitely could do a profile on my boss and/or McGruff…

        1. revueller*

          oh my God, have a cast page.

          Name: The Boss
          Gender: Demon
          Years Working at Hellmouth: 10,000 Years
          Occupation: Director of Terror and Mayhem
          Pastimes: “crime” “fighting”, hiding cameras, using a dartboard to decide her employees’ expectations for the week
          Dislikes: ethics, joy, doing her job, children

    11. Anonforthis*

      Also, I literally laughed out loud at your boss’s comment. Who does she think she is, Wonder Woman?

    12. Antilles*

      My boss is now setting elaborate traps “for criminals” and has actually chastised sherif deputies for not being more grateful for her help. Actual words she said: “Do you not realize that I am your partner in fighting crime?”
      Based on this, I’m really doubting her ability to be a successful vigilante.
      1.) It doesn’t seem like she was wearing a cape and a mask. You can’t fight crime properly without a proper costume.
      2.) She’s letting the police know her secret crime fighting identity. Always a bad idea that comes back to haunt you.
      3.) Chastising the police for a lack of gratitude. Regular police not approving of your methods is pretty standard, so she needs to practice coolly and calmly accepting that “I’m dangerous, maybe too dangerous for your procedures and policies, but I get results” (feel free to borrow that line).
      4.) Lack of a cool nickname. No criminal is going to take her seriously until she comes up with a good moniker.
      Seriously, this is like Superhero 101 stuff!

      1. Wishing You Well*

        There was a guy who thought he was Batman on Dr. Phil’s show yesterday. Maybe your boss and “Batman” are related.

      2. Kendra*

        It’s not “hawking wares” if the rest of the commentariat have been asking for it for weeks!

        1. zaracat*

          Yeah, this. I wanna hear more! I’m hoping you’ve copied all your previous AAM comments and made them into posts on your own blog so latecomers like me can catch up from the beginning …

        2. Move Over Thrawn - Florian Munteanu is BIGGER than you!*

          Exactly! Plus, we can read for free, this is more of a tip situation, not a selling thing.

      3. Indie*

        It doesn’t sound like you’re familiar with the requests people have been making of a reluctant hellmouth fo ages..

        You also might want to check the definition of ‘wares’.

    14. Nerdy Library Clerk*

      Your boss and McGruff are so far around the bend it’s a spiral. O_o
      Next week, your boss is probably going to replace the computers in the business center with boxes painted to *look* like computers.
      You’re the last sane person at the apartment complex on the hellmouth. May you get out soon, before it sinks into hell!

  129. Aggretsuko*

    Does anyone have any advice on this situation?

    I’ve been moved back to the public service team, which has to deal with the front counter and phones. I am really, really terrible at answering a general phone line. It stresses me out. I get horribly stressed out at a lot of phone calls (more than 5 in a day and I am losing it). I suck at problem solving over a phone. You hear the stress in my voice and I can’t “fake it” so well either. I am really really NOT OKAY with being yelled at. And I got myself in whopping trouble and was skating the edge of getting fired for years purely due to my sucking at public service. Everyone has complained about me. Everyone. I’ve taken all kinds of classes and tried to improve and spent $ on private coaching and still, nobody likes how I do it. I got transferred out of there before I got fired, basically. And now we have new management and I’m back here again. I absolutely cannot get transferred out again.

    I just don’t think I will ever hate it/not suck at it, but every single job requires phone answering now so I can’t get another job.

    New boss is aware of the situation and so far isn’t putting me back on phones until I’m … not so bad, uncomfortable, etc. Unfortunately of course the # of staff who answer the phones is dropping like flies and I think I’m going to get forced to go back on very soon. And yeah, even I agree it’s “not fair” to have me be the only one who doesn’t answer phones all day. I would be mad at me if I were my coworkers.

    But I suck at it. I hate it. It makes me wish I was dead. I will do anything else they want to help out, but that isn’t enough when there is only one person around to answer a phone and then that one calls in sick, or whatever.

    I don’t know what to do about this.

    1. Colette*

      I don’t think it’s true that every single job requires answering the phone. Have you considered looking around to see what’s out there?

      1. Reba*

        Right! This
        “every single job requires phone answering now so I can’t get another job.”

        is just self-defeating and not true.

        It might be the case that every job has you using the phone sometimes, but certainly not every job is focused on phone use or requires you to take cold incoming calls. I talk on the phone on scheduled calls but literally almost never take incoming calls or make calls without planning them. I go days without using the phone.

        Sorry you’re struggling. Good luck.

    2. WellRed*

      Look for a job at another company before you do, indeed get fired. Meanwhile, start answering the damn phones. The more you avoid it, the larger it will loom in your head (it’s already taking up too much space). Lots of people don’t like answering phones or dealing with the public, you are not alone in that.

      1. valentine*

        Meanwhile, start answering the damn phones.
        Way harsh, Tai.

        Aggretsuko, I hope you mean every job at your current employer requires one to answer phones. If not, know that for most jobs it’s just to forward calls, you won’t usually have to answer customer service questions in the moment, and you have more leeway to, say, always put the call on hold if you need a moment before you do what they’re asking or to figure out where to direct them.

        No one should be yelling at you. Do you not have support around that? Have you asked about an accommodation whereby you don’t have to answer phones?

        If your primary care doctor’s useful, discuss it with them. Maybe they can recommend a therapist. This is only if you’re determined to stay at this workplace or if you do want to tackle the issue.

    3. Tired*

      I, too, have a fear of answering phones. What has helped me is therapy and delving into why I get so anxious about answering phones. Coaching may not be the answer when it comes down to genuine fear, but therapy might. It also might also help with compartmentalizing the being yelled at. Also, I always take a big deep breath and and let it out slowly before picking up the phone. I notice my fear levels spike when I hear the ringer and so taking that breath helps a lot.

    4. blink14*

      Please do not say it makes you wish you were dead. It’s not that important! I don’t particularly like talking on the phone, but after 6-7 years at a job where that was one of my main responsibilities, I did get better at it.

      If you truly have a major issue with it (that time and practice can’t help with) start looking for something else, either internally or at another company. There are truly some people who are terrible on the phone, but building it up in your mind as the worst thing in the world isn’t helping either.

    5. ..Kat..*

      Can you shadow someone who is calmly good at answering the phones? This could give you some helpful techniques/phrases for starting the calls on a calm basis (and also for resetting the crazy calls to a calmer level). This has helped me in the past.

    6. Red Ghost*

      You sound a lot like me actually.[1] With me it’s not phones but other stuff that I completely suck at that most people take for granted (also people-related). It took me ages to accept that some things cannot be forced. You’re trying so hard to learn how to answer a phone like other people, so it’s clearly not lack of motivation or any other sort of “just do it”-thing and it has nothing to do with not liking it. Fake it till you make it is not enough in this case. You have to accept that this is something that is way way harder for you than it is for most people. Don’t be hard on yourself for it. You may never be comfortable answering a phone; certainly not when people jell at you (these people are jerks!). Accept yourself the way you are and go from there. You’ve done all the training you can do and maybe it’s time to stop trying to adapt to your circumstances and start adapting your circumstances to you. Over the years you might get better at this kind of thing, but that will be more due to a general shift in attitude towards the world and particularly yourself, than training.

      Actual advice:
      Short term: Is it possible to put people on hold while you’re trying to solve their problem? Can you come up with a mantra / short sentence that will give you a boost before answering the phone? Like, a reminder that the people who call want something from you, your help, so if they are rude or impatient that’s on them and not your problem.
      Long term: If you don’t have a psychiatrist or psycho-therapist yet, find one (one you click with, this is important). Then you may be able to get a diagnosis which may give you the right to reasonable accomodations at work, like not having to answer phones all the time.[2] Or/And find another job that is better suited to you. There are definiteley jobs that don’t require you to solve problems via phone while beeing yelled at.

      I wish you all the best. Don’t give up on finding your niche where you can be happily yourself. You deserve it.

      [1] Disclaimer: Obviously I don’t know you, so ultimatly you have to decide how much my comment is relevant / on spot for your situation.
      [2] Btw. it totally is fair for you not to answer phones while others have to. Others are not burdened with your anxiety and just not liking it is absolutely not comparable to stressing out. Other people have their blind spots and inabilities too, even if these are less obvious. They too expect to be able to get through life without being constantly forced to do the one thing they suck at. Occasionally yes, but not all the time.

  130. Arctic*

    Earlier this year I was passed over for a more senior position in my department. Disheartening but whatever. The woman they chose put in her notice a couple of days ago to spend more time with her kids (no health or major problem facing them but, understandably, wants more time) but then decided to just take a few months leave of absence to decide if she wants to quit or not.
    So, I’ll have to take over her responsibilities without the pay.
    I like her. I feel bad for being so upset. But it’s just infuriating. I have to do some of a job I really wanted while this person gets a few months off to mull over whether she’ll quit or not.

    1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      That’s unfair and bewildering. Not on her part, she needs to live her best life and adjust. But the business should not be taking on hardship by accommodating her so much. She can mull over all she wants but they need to be paying you properly for being tasked with duties while she’s doing so.

      If a lead or manager did that here, we would tell them we had to promote someone into that role but could hold the previous lower role for awhile perhaps…depending on if it’s reasonable!

      1. Arctic*

        Right, I don’t blame her at all. If they are letting her do that why wouldn’t she? It’s 100% management that I’m frustrated with.

    2. Kittymommy*

      Earlier this year as in 2019?? Because he’ll no. We’re only what 40 days in and this place is letting her take a couple of months of to see if she wants to stay??!! Wtf!

      1. Arctic*

        Sorry! No. It was in May 2018. So, less than a year out but not in 2019. Sorry that was needlessly confusing.

    3. THAT girl*

      The frustration is real, I was faced with a similar -ish situation. My suggestion is to put your head down and do a really great job. In addition, choose at least one project or process that you’ve taken on and really hit it out of the park. Make sure your boss and other managers see what you are doing. Even it she comes back to her position you have used this opportunity to prove yourself for some unforeseen opportunity in the future. Worst case if you ever decide to leave and they can ask why, you can say hey I offered to step up, then I actually stepped up when Jane was out on leave and now I’m leaving in part because that wasn’t recognized.

      1. Arctic*

        Thanks. They do recognize my work all of the time. And all the projects I take on. It just doesn’t lead to anything tangible.

        1. THAT girl*

          Gotcha. It can be rough to “go above and beyond” as you hear everyone wants their employees to do, but not feel like it’s paying off. I right there with you.

        2. Combinatorialist*

          Then that isn’t really recognizing you. I mean, nice words are nice but if they aren’t willing to turn them into something tangible at least some of the time I think you should look around for other options.

  131. The Man, Becky Lynch*

    We’re trying to set up a phone call with someone we want to offer a position to but it’s radio silence. This is gnawing at my nerves.

    He sent a thank you email. Then two hours later we responded to him asking what a good time for a short call would be. He’s fully employed at another company so we’re not wanting to ring someone up without advance notice.

    Patience is actually one of my best traits…except in this setup. And I’m internalizing it all so my boss is all “daaaaang u so chill tho” and I’m smiling while my mind is screaming “Poker poker poker faaaaaaaace.”

    1. Camellia*

      Sounds like all of AAM’s advice for job seekers on how often you should check in, what if you don’t hear for a while, etc., would also apply here. You don’t mention how long it’s been since you sent the email, but if it’s been less than a week you probably need to keep waiting before trying to follow up again. He may be in meetings, tied up with work or personal stuff, had to put some things on hold for a while…

      1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

        Yeah…we’re not waiting a week for someone to respond to an email asking for a 5 minute phone call.

        I am pro “jobs are a two way street” but once you make a decision to extend an offer, there’s a lot less shelf life than status updates.

        1. StarHunter*

          Maybe he didn’t get your email. Can you text him or leave a voice mail? I’ve replied to people who sent me an email and I ended up in their spam folder. I would reach out with an alternative way to contact, and then if you get radio silence you did your due diligence and then you can move on.

  132. Slawpolo*

    A year ago I was doing a heavy job search to get away from my toxic boss. Luckily she was removed and I have a new boss who is wonderful and a position that is basically perfect.

    That being said my company is going through a lot of change right now and, well I’ve been assured my job is safe you never really know.

    While job searching I came upon a company that I liked a great deal. I met with some people, including the CEO who said that I would be a good fit in the future as the company grew.

    My question is- how do I keep that contact/possibility open in case something changes in the future? I have been keeping myself visible on the CEOs LinkedIn, but am not sure if I should be doing more?

    1. irene adler*

      Touch base with that CEO and/or the people you met there every 3-6 months or so. Just to see what’s developing over there (not simply to see if there’s an opening.). After all, you are interested in them, and it can be fun for them to tell an interested party about all the positive developments going on.

  133. Manders*

    Marketers, how do you manage expectations when you’re volunteering your work to family and friends?

    I work in a field of digital marketing a lot of small businesses owners desperately need, but find very confusing. I’m happy to help people I like out, but I’m running into some issues with friends seeming upset about the work or money that they’ll have to put into marketing. I genuinely do want to help out, but I also want to make sure my friends have a realistic understanding of what I can reasonably do for them. How can I politely but firmly convey the fact that successful marketing almost always takes a lot of time or a lot of money, and I can steer them in the right direction but there’s no magic shortcut?

    I don’t want to stop volunteering altogether–I’ve had some friends who took my advice and it was a huge help for their businesses. That feels great (and while I’m not charging for my advice, I do barter for their services sometimes, so it’s a nice tradeoff for some services I otherwise couldn’t afford). I just want to manage expectations at the outset.

    1. Allypopx*

      I think you word it really well here. “I’m happy to advise and help steer you in the right direction, but successful marketing is going to take a significant amount of time and, unfortunately, money. There’s no magic shortcut. It’s a normal cost of doing business.”

      You could drop the “unfortunately” if you wanted. People really think it’s as easy as making a couple Facebook posts and don’t take it into account when they make their business plans. You’ll probably keep getting pushback, but be clear and consistent – and sympathetic! It’s not an easy thing for people who aren’t experienced in it. But don’t let yourself get taken advantage of.

      1. OtterB*

        Second this. In addition to dropping “unfortunately” you might also say “I’m happy to advise and help steer you in the right direction, but I should warn you…” and continue with the rest of what you said.

      2. ..Kat..*

        This is good advice. I would be more specific. Significant means different things to different people. I would be more specific and give them time and money estimates.

    2. Wishing You Well*

      Put what you want to say IN WRITING for friends and family. Text it or whatever to get it into their hands. It’s very important to clearly define what you can and can’t do for them in advance. Blurring the boundaries between personal relationships/business/free help is really tricky.
      I hope things go well.

  134. THAT girl*

    Any advice on how to deal with the firing/resignation of a long time manager. Our department lost a manager overnight, no details given and have been asked to respect his privacy. His position is such that it isn’t a leap to suspect fraud or some other breach of trust. At best maybe gross incompetence. The whole thing is unsettling, and with the lack of any information one is apt to speculate the worst. How much do companies usually tell employees about this kind of dismissal? He was an employee for several decades and left a large whole behind. I also worry a bit that with no other details “whatever he did” will reflect on all of us in the department.

    1. could not resist*

      As opposed to a half behind? So sorry, I’m still in a goofy mindset from the chocolate driver story…

    2. Lemon Zinger*

      This happened not long after I started at my current employer. We received an email saying:

      “As of this morning, Ryan Smith is no longer with Teapots Incorporated. Susan Jones will be handling the position’s duties while we search for a new Teapot Director. Please direct any questions you may have to Susan.”

      You’re right that it’s probably due to gross negligence/fraud. I wouldn’t worry about your department looking bad as a whole. The relevant person was terminated, and you would have been too if you’d been to blame!

      1. That Girl From Quinn's House*

        I had a boss fired for being a generally awful person (racial/gender harassment, refusing to do any work and stonewalling other people from doing their work, stalking) and the letter went out that said,

        “Please be advised that, effective today, Mergatroid Meteor has stepped down from the role of Lion Zookeeper to pursue other opportunities. Please direct all questions for the Lion Zookeeper to Karen Ferguson, Head of Zookeeping. We wish Mergatroid the best of luck in her future endeavors!”

    3. Asenath*

      In my limited experience, nothing. At one job I had, someone just vanished. The office grapevine claimed financial wrongdoing, but no one ever knew for sure. She just wasn’t there one morning.

    4. Wishing You Well*

      Companies can and often should be very tight-lipped about why someone is gone. (litigation, etc.) So, you might never know. Try to be at peace with not knowing.
      Side note: not knowing can protect YOU from being drawn into legal proceedings/testifying, etc.

  135. urban teacher*

    Meeting with principal today. I plan to tell him about my para’s lack of effort and the fact I do not get a break the entire day due to her refusal to take the kids to general education. I teach 8 boys with autism who are mostly low functioning. I have been talking to the lead teacher whose response was to tell the para that if she stepped up, she could have the job next year since I’m leaving. Wish me luck.

    1. Luisa*

      That…seems like a big promise to make to the para. (At least where I work, I feel like that would be a big promise to make.)

      I’m also not generally in favor of motivating low-performing employees with promises of future promotion, but I’m not a manager, so maybe I’m off-base there.

  136. arthuya*

    Does anyone know of ways to find out what insurance coverage a potential new employer has? I’m considering job hunting, but I have a family member with significant mental health issues that usually result in inpatient care at least once a year. I would prefer if possible to focus my search on companies that would cover our current providers and not have enormous deductibles. I realize this may be impossible, but I’m hopeful someone has some tips.

    (note: I usually post under a different name, but going more anonymous for this question).

    1. Admin of Sys*

      A lot of larger companies have their insurance / hr details online and not behind a log in/intranet. So you might be able to google for it?

    2. Sleepytime Tea*

      I mean you can try to google it, but really that information is not published publicly. You really won’t get details until you get to something like a second round interview where you can ask questions about benefits.

      1. arthuya*

        I think you are right, I was hoping to avoid that, it sucks to find out the benefits aren’t a match after taking a couple days off of work.

      2. Admin of Sys*

        It really depends on the company size. IBM has there stuff downloadable to anyone, as do a lot of other big corporations. But glassdoor also includes that as part of their reviews sometimes.

    3. Coverage Associate*

      If I am not working with a recruiter, I usually ask for the information at the time of the offer. Usually there’s a summary employers have for the situation, and they allow me to contact HR with detailed questions. If you have good relationships with the providers, you can use the summary to ask the providers, rather than going through a potential employer’ HR.

      If I am working with a recruiter, sometimes I can ask the recruiter about benefits around the time the recruiter asks about salary range, before I even interview.

    4. LQ*

      Can you ask around in your industry with colleagues what kind of coverage? Also any companies with unions you’ll likely find their information online or could contact the union.

      Do beware of “Oh we have BCBS” though (I assume you know this, but not everyone does). A friend left government work for a nonprofit and thought all BCBS plans were the same. OH. That was a very rough few bills for her. (She’s looking back for government work entirely because of the health insurance.)

      1. arthuya*

        Definitely true. Insurance companies create “designer health plans” for different companies.

  137. Rhiiiiiiannnnnnnon*

    Hey all! Any advice for office managers / admin on how to handle complaints that you can’t fix?

    For instance, I often get complaints that its too hot or too cold. I can call the building maintenance, but they really can’t make changes specific to our floor – so temps remain the same. Building maintenance is sick of hearing from me about the issue, and the staff is upset that I can’t do anything. I’ve tried just listening, and giving an ear to these complaints, and managing their expectations: “I know its chilly, I’m sorry. Its a building issue – and I can call them to check, but but since the temperature outside is fluctuating there’s not much they can do for us today.” etc.

    I’m a happy problem solver, but I don’t know what to tell people when there’s nothing that can be solved!

    1. how about this?*

      This only applies to your one example, but are you in a position to approve purchasing individual space heaters and/or fans? That shows your peeps you’re trying to look out for them. Plus people can use them as they see fit, versus trying to please everyone with one floor-wide temperature.

      1. Rhiiiiiiannnnnnnon*

        I like where your head is at about looking out for people, but honestly we can’t. We have a few in the office already, but adding more is an issue. I once tried to plug in a space heater and shut down power to my entire work area, which maintenance had to come and fix because we don’t have access to the circuit box. Its not something we can encourage folks to try.

        1. Gumby*

          I once went to IKEA and bought about 10 inexpensive fleece throws because one conference room was so cold. ($2 each IIRC.) Facilities eventually figured out the climate control in that room but in the meantime no one shivered to death. They have gradually disappeared from that room – I think there are maybe 3 or 4 in there now. But we’re fairly casual and so sitting in a meeting wrapped in a fleece was okay. Also, it makes a good story for when customers are on site and ask about the blankets in the corner. (Customer visits are basically the only time the majority of us dress up. And by dress up I mean in something nicer than jeans. Like, say, khakis. Those are totally dressy.)

    2. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      You’ll never make every person happy, they need to grow up and put on a sweater. You’re told them it’s not as simple as turning the dial somewhere.

      Say “I’ve let the facilities management know we are chilly up here but they’ve said there’s nothing more they can do.”

      Draw a line. Do not continue to call them when you know the response!! You’re becoming a pest and they’ll ignore your legit issues later out of spite or habit of shrugging at all the other requests. You don’t want to get to that point.

      1. Hooray College Football*

        We all had individual thermostats in our offices at my old job. We quickly learned that they were just for our amusement, as they did nothing to control the actual temperature in the offices. Space heaters were not permitted – they would be confiscated if found by the fire inspectors. Fortunately, we usually had a day’s notice before the inspection, so we could hide them. They actually took our toaster during one inspection.

        1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

          That’s some intense inspections that I’ve never seen that kind of nonsense before but we’re usually in buildings we own and they’re focused on much more than what’s going on in the office. We all have space heaters and the rule is that you have to unplug them and store them when you’re not in the office.

          Were the toasters not in a kitchen environment?! I can see how they’d snag those if someone is setting up a kitchenette in their office. I’ve heard tales of people with hot plates in offices because they essentially live there given their jobs.

          1. Hooray College Football*

            Government agency. Toaster in the “kitchen” area, which is two mini refrigerators, two microwaves, and one coffee maker (no sink or kitchen counter/table). It is actually in our central office area, along with the fax machine, one of the printers, and the in/out boxes.
            They even inspect our power cords/strips to make sure we haven’t daisy chained them. We each have one spot on the floor where all the outlets are, so power strips with really long cords are a necessity.

            1. ..Kat..*

              Well, most fire inspectors are just trying to keep you safe by preventing fires. The toaster could have: not been rated for heavy use, been one too many appliance in an appliance heavy room, or something else like this. The things you cite are common fire safety hazards. Of course, the trip hazards from power strips with really long cords are an entirely different category!

    3. WellRed*

      *IS* the office unreasonably cold? I work in a building that’s too hot or too cold, no in between, but mostly deal.

      1. Rhiiiiiiannnnnnnon*

        Unreasonably cold? No, I honestly wouldn’t say so. I run cold, but because ~f~a~s~h~i~o~n~ I wear sleeveless dresses to work almost everyday. I’m not shivering when people complain.

    4. KR*

      I totally get where you’re coming from. The heat in our office doesn’t work very well (the HVAC company the landlord called recommended we just replace the whole unit but of course that didn’t happen), the hot water heater sucks and doesn’t work very well (the handyman landlord called recommended they replace the whole unit and that took months for them to actually do), ECT ECT. They tell me about it because I in the contact for the landlord, but after bringing up the issues again and again I just have to accept that our office kind of sucks but it’s one of the better options in our town. I usually just tell my co-workers that I brought it up with the landlord and here is what she said, sorry I wish I could help.

    5. fposte*

      I would change my response so it looks less like there’s an external solution. “I’m afraid we have no control over the heat; unless the HVAC is outright broken, the temperature we have is one we need to adjust to.” No comments about calling to check, nothing about the weather today.

      1. LadyByTheLake*

        This. I think your current wording is leaving the door open to the idea that you CAN do something about it. You need to be clear with them that you can’t.

        1. valentine*

          With your current wording and offer to keep calling, I would assume you were being too soft or weren’t explaining the problem properly. Be explicit: “Building maintenance can’t make changes specific to our floor.” Create an FAQ that’s clear about how there’s nothing to be done and you’re not going to uselessly harass them.

          If there are temperatures that would make your employer seek a better building, it’s worth getting temperature readings around the office throughout several days.

  138. bookartist*

    I’m not sure action is required but I really want to vent somewhere about this. My team is in early-stage onboarding of a work management tool; my current task is to outline process steps for our various types of projects. In the template the vendor provided, one piece of guidance is to think about how I would describe what I do to my grandmother or hairdresser. Well, my grandmother was a shop steward who at one point oversaw and represented several hundred people, so I’d sit at her knee and learn a thing or two about how to run a production shop of any kind, digital or tactile. And my *hairdresser*? I could learn a lot about processes for managing a small business from him.

    Unless this rep shows other signs of insensitivity I’m choosing to say nothing, but I wanted to both vent and compare this to yesterday’s letter from a woman who objected to being called “young lady.” (For what it’s worth, I’m totally on her side, with some sympathy for the retail worker and real antipathy toward the management / professional culture that expects we all have the same point of view.

    1. Colette*

      I … don’t think that’s really outrageous. It sounds like the idea is to explain what you do in terms someone who is not in your industry will understand.

      1. Allypopx*

        I agree with you, but those are traditionally gendered examples to choose. Not outrageous, but another microaggression to add to the daily pile – I get the frustration.

        1. bookartist*

          Thanks to you both. I want to react appropriately and proportionally; your responses are both useful.

          1. valentine*

            It’s also gendered in that “hairdresser” is addressing only women and makes the speech gossip. Even if hairdressers were a likely client, you visit your hairdresser for her work, not yours.

    2. Camellia*

      Honestly I think I would say exactly what you wrote about your grandmother and your “hairdresser”, then smile, and politely suggest they may want to update their material to be more reflective of current culture, as a way to appeal to a broader audience. Who knows when that was written and they may not even notice it any more. If we don’t call these things out then they won’t get changed.

    3. LadyByTheLake*

      I use “explain it to a teenager” when I want someone to make it simple. My grandmother was a noted theologian and author.

      2. ..Kat..*

        Whenever I need help with an Xbox or smart television at work, I wish I had a teenager that I could ask. Sigh….

  139. Comms Girl*

    Sooooo it’s been a rollercoaster of a week as we are preparing for the kick-off of a new project, and in the meantime I had my appraisal and I had quite the (good) shock of my life as my bosses told me I’m being promoted to Communications Manager!

    I’m obviously thrilled, and I already run most of the Comms so there’s not much difference there, but it’s my first ‘de facto’ managerial position and so I wanna ask the AAM community for tips :) what can I do to ensure I hit the ground running?

    1. Coffee Bean*

      YAY! Congratulations. You will be great, you are already thinking and looking into how to be a good manager, which is awesome.

      Alison just did a podcast on this. Last week, it is called “How can I be a good manager?” on her Ask A Manager podcast.

      1. Comms Girl*

        Thanks so much :) I somehow missed last week’s podcast, but listened to it after reading your message. Valuable insights, indeed!

  140. halfwolf*

    Has anyone ever seen an entry-level job listing written like a contract? I came across one last night and am still scratching my head. There’s not spiel whatsoever about how the role fits into the organization; it literally starts “Under general supervision, News Assistants are responsible for a variety of clerical tasks across all platforms. Management will inform News Assistants which job function(s) listed herein are their primary responsibility(ies). Management will provide all necessary training for any employee assigned to job function(s) for which he or she does not have the necessary skills or abilities.” Any ideas/thoughts/reactions?

    1. Allypopx*

      That’s super off-putting. I wouldn’t want to work somewhere that thinks that’s an appropriate or attractive way to communicate.

      1. halfwolf*

        Okay, nice to hear that from someone else! It’s SO weird that I honestly thought someone made a mistake when posting the listing. And this is an extremely well known, mainstream company! (I’m a regular AAM reader but basically never comment, so not sure of the norms – if it’s kosher to post the link to the listing I will so you can see in context.)

    2. KR*

      I work near a military base and all of the federal jobs I see read like a piece of legislature. There’s so much in there that you wouldn’t understand unless you worked at a government job before and very few actual duties listed. It’s such a pet peeve of mine.

      1. halfwolf*

        Interesting! This isn’t a federal job, where I can at least see the logic. And their other open listings (including a listing for a very similar position in a different department) aren’t written like this (which is probably valuable context I left out, oops).

    3. AudreyParker*

      I think some organizations just copy/paste the official language they have on record without trying to craft a compelling job post for external consumption. I’d usually say it probably indicates something about the culture that either no one made an effort to rewrite or they are required to post that way, but just saw your last comment about it being an outlier so now I’m guessing it may have just accidentally gotten posted before being rewritten. In which case, I’d probably give them the benefit of the doubt and pretend the similar position is more along the lines of what they intended to post (assuming the salient details are the same).

      1. halfwolf*

        Yeah, that’s kind of where I’m landing on this – someone goofed up somewhere. I should probably know better than to be shocked that this happened at such a Prestigious Organization (and they are), because even the most Prestigious employers are still made up of humans! I would still like to apply as I’m trying to switch fields, so probably I’ll tailor my cover letter on what is there and check the similar listing to see if I can extrapolate any relevant context.

        I showed the listing to my partner and he agreed that it was very weird but also said that he kind of wished more listings were this straightforward with what they wanted out of you!

    4. That Girl From Quinn's House*

      Yes, my work used to do it that way. It was laziness. Instead of writing a concise job ad, HR required that we post the full, formal job description that the employee would have to sign and acknowledge upon hire. They also would not update the job description regularly, so it often contained out of date or wildly incorrect information based on which Word file the hiring manager had saved to their desktop.

  141. Allypopx*

    I woke up from a stress dream at 6am adamant that I needed a software experience section on my resume. I looked. I have one. Also no intention of showing my resume to anyone in the near future. But now I’m INCREDIBLY stressed about my resume and I don’t know why. ACK.

  142. Lemanaman*

    I’m worried that I’ll never advance! I’ve been at my new job about 6 months, which is the next step in my career. I’d gone as far as I could at my old job, and if I’d ever want more money or advancement I’d have to leave. Thing is, I tried this about 6 years ago and I really wasn’t ready, having to go back to Old Job when previously new job fired me. But I thought I was ready — I’d worked so hard! But at my reviewe new job bosses said they aren’t confident of my skills the way they said they should be, and the culture is not at all as friendly as my last job. No one has mentioned PIP yet but I am so paranoid that one’s right around the corner. I’m trying harder, but what do I do if I’m not meant to advance in this career I love? Am I stuck working Support with dead end pay forever?

    1. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      Ok there was a whole lot in that paragraph. Let me see if I can break it out:

      You are at a New Job and have been there for 6 months- advancement from Old Job
      You left Old Job for advancement
      6 years ago you left Old Job for OldNew Job, where you fired for performance because you weren’t ready.
      After being fired you returned to Old Job.
      At your review at New Job your boss(s) indicated they aren’t confident in your skills

      Did I get that all right? Will comment more once I know that I read your situation correctly

    2. DaffyDuck*

      I just wanna say – 6 months isn’t all that long in a new job. I’d say keep it up and pay attention to all suggestions on what they want. Maybe you could ask them what specific improvements they would like? I have no idea what are the issues but I am a BIG believer in making “How to Do##” notes or having checklists to refer to. Making them myself both solidifies what I need to do and shows some initiative.

    3. Electric sheep*

      Do you have weekly one on ones to check in with your manager? Is that something you could set up to get regular day to day guidance?

  143. chi chan*

    I was wondering how to approach Alison to look over my resume and cover letter? Do I send them as advice wanted emails?

    1. ArtK*

      I don’t believe that she will do that for unsolicited resumes. Every once in a while (once per year?) she’ll announce that she’s doing a limited number of reviews.

    2. Sleepytime Tea*

      Yeah… no. She has a job and a life and if she reviewed random people’s resumes then she would be inundated with that all day long. If she ever offers, take her up on it, but otherwise do not send a stranger an unsolicited request to do you a favor.

      1. Someone Else*

        She used to occasionally do a special offer of this service for a fee, but my recollection it was time-limited and quantity limited (like she’d accept X number of requests this week only, or something). However she hasn’t done it in, I think, a few years, and when asked has indicated she’s too busy and is unlikely to offer that anymore, and instead points people at this:
        https://www.askamanager.org/2018/06/how-to-write-a-resume-that-doesnt-suck.html

  144. Penny*

    I was so grateful for the recent letter and question regarding being bored at work but being paid well to be there. I’m in that exact situation right now and am feeling the pinch to move on and be challenged in spite of a likely paycut, or stay and be bored and ultimately angry about it. I keep asking my manager during our monthly touchbases and casual chats if she has work for me, she says no and to hang in there, check with someone else who might (she never does either), rinse, repeat. It’s been really frustrating lately. Especially since I left the previous job for the exact same situation: Position created for me resulted in a change in scope and no work, I left, took THIS job where the same thing is happening all over again.

    Have any of you all been in this situation and what did you do about it?

    1. Anon for this response*

      I once had a job that had 6 hours of work to do in an 8 hour day. Despite asking for more work, there wasn’t any more available. At the time I was a leader of a Girl Scout troop. So I wrote up the weekly plans for my troop, wrote long e-mails to my Mom (which she loved – she wasn’t really a phone person), read the journal and articles for my profession, etc. The one thing I was careful not to do was fill the time by gossiping with co-workers.

      Although my work was interesting and a very satisfying job, at the time I was bored. On my next job I had 10 hours of work to do in an 8 hour day and I often longed for the good pay and easy work of the prior job. All I have to say is – be careful what you wish for.

    2. Coffee Bean*

      Absolutely in that same boat.

      Suggestions I do that help some weeks (not all as I still find myself bored from time to time).
      1. Make up projects. For example I saw a reporting gap on llamas bought, so I just created a report about it, sent it to my boss and said “What do you think about this llama bought report? We frequently get questions on what llamas we bought but no one has had a consistent tracking method.. would this be helpful?”
      2. Sit down and think about the processes you do, is there anything that can improve? Are you spending a ton of time chasing your tail on one type of thing, and if so is there anything that would streamline it?
      3. Just go talk to other people. Your boss is not being your advocate (and that sucks!), so you go meet other people, ask if you can help them with anything. Most will take you up on it. And as you get to know more people and they get to know you, their requests may start funneling to you instead of your boss, which will give you work.
      4. If you have any systems/programs, learn them. Inside and out. Know how the system works, the ways that cause the system to break, try and break the systems and become a subject matter expert. Once you do then people will start coming to you with help on the system, “Hey I deleted this on accident, is there any way to undo?”. Things like that.
      5. Read Ask A Manager (I kid… kind of)

    4. AnyoneAnywhere*

      I tried a few things, but ultimately I couldn’t take it and left.

      There are some online volunteer things you can do-like transcription and whatnot- that I used to take up some time. I read some online books-like classics- that I never would have read if I had anything else to do.
      I organized things excessively well. I made myself responsible for things like making more coffee to take up more time, and restocking the printer.
      Ultimately there are ways to make it less terrible, but that situation is awful, in my opinion.

  145. anon24*

    Advice on FMLA?

    I’ve just passed one year at my job. I suffer from migraines that have been getting worse with weird neurological symptoms where I can’t really safely do my job. I work in healthcare so we have a very strict callout policy. I took a day off im January and then had to leave early this week from a migraine and so now if I call off again before summertime I will be written up and any further callouts will get me fired.

    My co-worker suggested applying for intermittent FMLA leave to protect my job. I don’t know why this has never occurred to me in previous jobs where I suffered through many a migraine. I checked and migraines are covered under FMLA.

    Yesterday I privately mentioned this to a co-worker I trust and she warned me to be very careful. Apparently our HR person has a history of shutting down people who apply for FMLA by claiming they are not covered and then refusing to communicate with them. One person had to go to the head of the company to get their FMLA approved.

    I am trying to set up an appointment with my doctor to discuss better treatment options and then I will need to contact HR to determine what paperwork my doctor needs to fill out but I’ve never done this before. Anyone who’s done this or had issues with getting FMLA have any advice for me? I’m very worried about losing my job.

    1. Susie Q*

      Honestly, I would immediately start looking for a new job. You don’t want to work for a company that punishes people for getting sick. This will only get worse, not better.

      1. anon24*

        I really like my job in every other way. I’ve been here a year and this is the first wtf moment. My benefits are great and honestly this is the policy industry wide, so anywhere else I’ll go it’s the same thing. I’m hoping to change careers at some point in the next 3-5 years but I’m not ready yet.

        1. valentine*

          As your job’s already in jeopardy, requesting FMLA can only help. Email HR, your manager, and the company head* that you’re requesting intermittent FMLA and to please provide or direct you to the paperwork (it’s online, but HR may want to enter their portion first).

          *If it’s not considered a nuclear escalation. You can say you wanted to cover all bases and avoid unnecessary delays.

          1. YourFriendlyUnionRep*

            If they refuse to provide it, Youcan get the forms you need if they refuse to give it to you at https://www.dol.gov/whd/fmla/forms.htm
            Your doctor will know how to fill the medical part out if you take them the form. Echoing other commenters… FMLA can help you. Oversight agencies do not look kindly on employers who violate federal law by messing with people’s ability to take legit FMLA.

    2. irene adler*

      Does this co-worker know the specifics about the HR person “shutting down people who apply for FMLA”? Is the co-worker sure the conditions/situations employees were shut down for actually covered by FMLA?

      Going to the head of the company might have been because of the HR person inappropriately denying the FMLA. Or, the HR person was unsure and sent the employee to the head of the company to make the decision.

      You should read up on the FMLA guidelines:
      https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/benefits-leave/fmla

      Then, if the HR person tries to deny FMLA approval or says anything that doesn’t jive with the website, you can ask for a written explanation as to why. Then contact your local Bar Association. Ask for a free consultation with an attorney to see if the HR person is in the right. And then ask what legal steps you can take to get FMLA.

      1. anon24*

        Yes, I don’t want to share details here but she told me why this co-worker needed FMLA and it was absolutely covered. He had to contact the head of the company because the HR person refused to answer any of his emails and basically ignored him. After contacting this person HR immediately approved his FMLA.

    3. Willow*

      You might be protected under ADA. Migraines don’t automatically qualify, but they can. And I think ADA would protect you more against evil HR people than FMLA.

      1. anon24*

        Would the ADA allow me to take time off when needed? I don’t need accommodation in my job aka changed duties, I just need to be able to go home and sleep when needed!

        1. Natalie*

          Potentially. “Accommodation” just refers to anything that could help the disabled person do the job, it’s not restricted to just changing duties. Unpaid time off can be considered a disability accommodation.

    4. LQ*

      Is your boss willing to go to bat for you on this? Either with FMLA or with being more lax on the rules for firing?

    5. Dr. Anonymous*

      Just see your doctor, get the forms, and be grateful that you know to go over the HR person’s head if it comes to that. It’s also possible the HR person’s attitude has been “adjusted” since the previous incident. Get started and protect yourself. There are several people in intermittent FMLA I where I work.

  146. What would Grace Hopper do?*

    IT person here soon to be interviewing for a position one step up but not a MGMT position. Our dress code is causual, jeans and polos. Should I dress up at least to business casual for the interviews? If it matters I’m a 45 year old woman and we are about a 70/30 percent mix of men to women.

    1. Susie Q*

      I would just to be on the safe side. But I would wear dress pants/blouse or skirt/blouse not a full suit.

    2. wingmaster*

      I think you’ll be fine with business casual. I interviewed for a casual work environment, and my outfit was a button down and slacks. As long as you look well-dressed and put together! Good luck!

    3. Daughter of Ada and Grace*

      I’d go for polished business casual. It sounds like this is an internal interview, so stepping up your presentation for the interview can signal you’re taking it seriously. Slacks and a button down is always good for anyone of either gender, and this time of year a sweater could also work instead of/in addition to the button down. (Depending on the temperature in the office and your personal comfort level, of course.)

    4. Audrey*

      I work in casual tech, but I always go for slacks / blouse for interviews. I’ve never felt out of place, especially since even here there are generally a few people who wear button up shirts on the regular.

    5. ..Kat..*

      A blazer can make almost anything look a touch more professional.

      I think upping your game for the interview is a good idea. But, not too much – don’t come in looking as if you were a lawyer at a conservative firm.

      Good luck.

  147. Anon for this*

    Okay, so I work in academia as faculty and am salaried, as is almost everyone here. We also have wildly different schedules. One of my colleagues, though, has taken to tracking the hours I’m here and making snarky, passive-aggressive comments because I don’t stay as late into the evening as she does. The other day I also canceled some classes although the school was still open because the weather meant I wasn’t able to get to work, and she had a loud conversation right in front of my office door the next day about how “I was here, some people got scared and decided not to come and serve our students.”

    So far I’ve been ignoring her, because she wants an audience and to be able to act like a martyr, and I take pleasure in depriving her of both. Is there something else I should be doing? I know I’m not in trouble with my supervisor over this as I’ve always talked to him right away about things like weather-related absences and he always understands, so it’s not something I feel the need to take to him.

      1. irene adler*

        Yes. She’s trying to get a rise out of you. Ignore her as best you can.
        As you wrote, she’s playing the martyr, trying to call attention to herself.

    2. blink14*

      Does your institution have a policy about weather related cancellations? When I was in college, one of my teachers lived in the next state (the school is about 30 minutes from the state line), and she would cancel class if weather was severe but the university hadn’t cancelled class. This was also an unofficial policy of a few other teachers. As long as your following the school policy and your supervisor is fine with it, this woman is trying to make a big deal out of herself being there in any kind of weather, late at night, etc. People like that rarely are actually efficient workers and do it this kind of thing to look good.

      1. Anon for this*

        The only real policies are “Let your students know” (and that applies to cancellations for sickness and conference travel, too, not just weather) and “Obey the official policy if the school does have a delay or cancellation” (so that professors aren’t telling students to come to campus if the university is closed because the professor believes they could make it and wants to have class, and/or professors aren’t telling students all their classes will be canceled when it was actually just that one course). I had already e-mailed my students, and my supervisor said that was all I needed to do.

    3. That Girl From Quinn's House*

      My husband’s a professor and his department has one of these too. The department chair has to go around after faculty meetings apologizing for Fergus’s nasty remarks.

      “I know Fergus said we should cut funding to the entire Llama Gene Sequencing subgroup because he thinks the Llamasutra is the future of Llama Breeding, but I want to reassure you that the College of Llama Studies and the Department of Llama Breeding both heartily support the Llama Gene Sequencing research cluster AND the Llamasutra workgroup equally. Fergus is a cranky old blowhard who should just retire already but we’re stuck with him because tenure, so if he says anything rude to you again just ignore it because the rest of us have been tuning him out for the last 30 years.”

      1. Anon for this*

        Ugh, being stuck in the same department with her for that long definitely does not appeal. But then again, there are a lot of perks for me here at this particular school and no guarantee that there won’t be someone like her or even worse if I do go elsewhere. (Plus she’s a decade older than I am, so there’s always the chance she’ll retire before I do).

    4. Kathenus*

      Ignoring is perfect – externally ignore her; internally revel in and enjoy her ranting and the fact that she’s allowing your schedule so much space in her head. The unprofessional part of me would want to respond snarkily right back – if she mentions you leaving while she’s still working – saying something like, ‘yeah it’s great, I love having a life outside of work’. Or ‘yup, sucks to be you tonight, huh?’

      I wouldn’t actually say these, but I’d definitely want to.

    5. Reba*

      Will this person be on your tenure review committee? If so, consider doing… something. If not, ignore and be comforted that everyone else likely knows how ridiculous they are.

  148. Mrs. Carmen Sandiego JD*

    The good: boss and upper boss love my 2 written products on new teapot steps.

    The not so fun: Semi-open floor plan means I can’t adjust lighting of the office, which means my eyes get eyestrain easily. For past 2 days have had to sleep early in a dark room/not watch movies b/c of migraines–possibly also b/c of the temperature going from 5F to 59F in 72 hrs….yeesh. Also, my eyesight seems to have gotten more blurry–methinks it’s Computer Vision Syndrome :S Any remedies? I’ve already tried the 20 sec looking away at object 20 ft away and my eyes are normal otherwise b/c I’d gone to the opthalmologist back in December….

    2. KR*

      Can you wear a baseball cap in your office? I found this reduces my eye strain due to unsheilded fluorescent lights.

    3. ColorfulAnon*

      I bought some blue light reduction glasses on Amazon and went from having ~1 migraine/month to having not had one in the past 6, so definitely something to try!

    5. it happens*

      Ouch. Also dry eyes if the humidity is too low. I use gel eye drops in the winter only- it makes a tremendous difference in my vision.

  149. hello*

    I got a new job! It came through a referral from the person who was in the position, and wanted to find a good replacement for when she left.

    I’d love to do the same for someone else, my question is, how do I know if this would actually make sense for the person in question? I don’t know how much people make, and I don’t want to come across as naive if taking this job would actually come as a big pay cut for them. What is the more appropriate way to recommend someone for a job you are leaving (or identify people you can encourage to apply)?

  150. AwkwardTurtle*

    So the good news in my work life is that I got a 10% raise! Now, if I can only get my personal life back on track :'(

  151. The Fruit Reducer*

    Hey all, new poster and love the site! Thought I would share a funny but not so fun announcement I will be posting in our cafeteria. A little background: We provide a weekly fruit delivery as part of our wellness program. The title of the announcement is “Fruit Reduction Notice” which gives me a chuckle every time I read it. Here’s a snippet:

    “Beginning February 18th, the quantity of fruit delivered will be reduced, very slightly though. Each location will receive the same amount of bananas but apples, oranges, and misc fruit will be reduced. The deliveries are so small that the reduction is small, like 2-4 pieces less of apples, oranges, etc. We don’t order by case at these locations, but by quantity.”

    … Just waiting until I have to post the announcement of the Mandatory Vegetable Program!

    Have a great weekend!

    1. Tired*

      When I was in college, the university posted an announcement that students could only take one piece of fruit from our dining hall. The outrage it incited actually forced them to rescind the announcement. All of this to say, good luck!

      1. ..Kat..*

        I remember smuggling apples out of the college cafeteria so that I would have something to eat when I had classes during meals! Also, those small boxes of cereal.

  152. BigSigh*

    I’m so frustrated!

    I received a call from a bank last week offering me an interview. But I never applied for a job at any bank. They said they saw my resume on CareerBuilder. Head over there and what do you know, my resume from 2009 says “posted yesterday.” I took it down but the damage is done because now I’m being hounded with job offers for package delivery and scab positions.

    Contacting CareerBuilder did nothing. They just said, “Oh, well there’s no resume associated with your account anymore.” Right, because I deleted it. But why was it re-posted IN THE FIRST PLACE? I feel like this is a dating site thing, like instead of fake accounts for women resumes get re-posted to look fresh and active.

    Not cool!

    1. writelhd*

      Arg that sucks. I wonder how common this is? I recently got an email from some recruiting group telling me I should apply for this (hopelessly vague on details) job. I responded back (silly me) with a “can you tell me a little more about this, what industry is this in, what’s the salary?” because it actually seemed like something I might want to do if it were in my industry, but was just described as ” a Client wants somebody who does Vague Thing That Could Mean A Lot of Different Things Depending on the Specific Industry Context, but Not Such Context is Given” and they did not respond, but immediately started spamming me every day to go to their website and “update my profile” ( I’d never even made a profile there) and spamming me with job postings that have nothing to do with me or my industry at all.

      IT IS such a strangely weird and useless world, now.

  153. Mellow cello*

    I’m trying to figure out if I’m a clueless (and terrible?) mentee. I had a good, strictly professional relationship with my supervisor in grad school – as in we literally never talked about anything except work and study.

    About 5 years after graduating, I made a career change directly into his field of work and I reached out and asked if he would be interested in being my mentor – no pressure and I would’ve completely understood if he declined. He accepted though and has been my mentor for about 5 years since, officially and unofficially. I’ll email him with an update or a question every few months and he always answers helpfully and promptly. We only talk about work.

    I realised that we’ve been colleagues one way or another for almost 20 years. I can literally count the personal facts I know about my mentor on one hand. I don’t want a more closer or more personal relationship with him. Is that weird / unfriendly / standoffish?

    1. CBH*

      It sounds like your mentor wants to keep things professional, where as you are looking at this as more of a professional peer situation. Personally I would want it as a peer situation and would think after so long you would know (at least a little) about one another personally. On the other hand, if your mentor wants to keep that boundary up, all you can do is respect his decision. Maybe try ONCE, to initiate a more personal conversation – hey I’m getting coffee do you want anything; if something in his office catches your eye (a photo) your kids are cute; if you send an email in the winter can you say PS stay warm in this crazy weather; etc – something to see if the boundary can be bent a little. Maybe mentor doesn’t know how to move from professional to professional peer situation. Either way, you need to respect how your mentor is guiding you.

      1. Mellow cello*

        Thanks, CBH. I’d actually prefer to keep it a professional mentoring relationship too – the thought of trying to shoehorn a more personal, friend-like dimension to things actually makes my shoulders go up around my ears!

        I just wanted to make sure that *I* wasn’t being inadvertently off-putting by not trying to be more friendly.

        1. CBH*

          I don’t think it’s off putting to keep things professional. This is not someone who are having happy hour with; it’s a professional relationship. In addition your mentor has probably had similar mentor/ mentee relationships prior to yours. In other words he has earned his status and might want to keep it as him being higher up. I hope that makes sense. I would think if the dynamic of the relationship was to change, it would primarily be up to him to do so. Your looking to him for guidance and how to move about in a professional world. If a social relationship is appropriate I would think by now he would have done so. In the meantime you too can keep the relationship as you want. Aside from doing something neighborly, like grabbing a cup of coffee on your way into his office, it sounds like your relationship is just as it should be. PS sorry if I misinterpreted things in that I thought you were looking for a more peer relationship.

          1. Mellow cello*

            No worries, thank you for the insights! I think this is definitely a case of ‘don’t fix something that isn’t broken’ and I should stop second-guessing myself about the mentoring relationship.

  154. Calendar Fail. I'm mortified.*

    So long story short, I am involved in a professional networking organization and am co-chair for planning events. Several back and forth emails later, the date is picked and invites sent, etc. I was on all of these emails and was the one that originally suggested the date. If it matters, the date is over 30 days away from now and the invite/social media posts just went out this week.

    Problem: I’m not actually available. When I sent the email with the date, I’m guessing I just had a typo. In my head I suggested TUESDAY March 12, but I really typed “March 11”. On March 11, I’m going to be flying back to my hometown from overseas.

    So what do I do now? Send a message to the committee and say I messed up and apologize profusely? Say my flight schedule changed and now I don’t land until too late to attend? Pay $400 to take an earlier flight that will mean getting there will be tight but doable?

    I’m mortified at my error and want to handle it the best way. Especially as this is my first time working with the org so I don’t have goodwill with the org yet.

    1. fposte*

      Well, B is out. You either fix it or admit you blew it. Honestly, since you’re a co-chair, I’m afraid I’d lean toward rescheduling the flight back; an absence on this the first time out is likely to leave a dent.

      1. Calendar Fail OP*

        That is what I was leaning towards – paying to fix it. Annoying, but I made a mistake and I need to fix it and this inconveniences the least number of people (i.e. just me).

        My concern with that is only if for some reason that flight has issues, then people may wonder why I said I could do an event on a day I was traveling? So in that case is it better to own it now, apologize profusely, and try to change the date?

        Fortunately everyone knows that I am taking this trip, so the fact that I’m traveling isn’t a surprise. I just can’t believe I did this and am so upset with myself.

        1. fposte*

          This is going to depend on the field and who’s invited, but I wouldn’t want to change the date of the event. If people wonder why you said you could do an event on the day you’re traveling, you tell them you screwed up.

          But I also am not hearing about the possibility of changing the return flight to one where it isn’t a tight squeeze. I know that might be a real bite into a planned vacation, but I might still consider doing it.

          1. Calendar Fail OP*

            In a normal circumstance, I’d 100% change my flight and come back a day early. Agree – annoying, but again I made a mistake so now I suffer the consequences. Unfortunately this trip is a 13 day cruise in New Zealand/Australia and then flying back to the USA and I literally can’t change those dates (unless I didn’t go at all). So if I change the flight, the earlier one in the same day is sadly my only option.

            The event is a happy hour networking thing where we are trying to recruit additional people to join the org. So it’s not a set presentation or anything and since we’re over 30 days away, honestly probably not a huge deal to move. It’s more the impression I give to fellow committee members that I’m unorganized or unreliable. I’m usually very organized, but in this case just didn’t notice my typo and so here we are, sadly.

            (thank you for your thoughts – it helps to “talk” about it before I discuss with the people who are actually affected)

            1. Blue Eagle*

              I would discuss it with the top people who are affected and admit the mistake and ask their input on the best way to rectify it. But the key thing is – don’t do this via yet another e-mail. Get on the phone and talk to the appropriate person/people directly.

              If the invites just went out this week, it is unlikely that you will inconvenience everyone (i.e. it is unlikely that many will have made plans that depend on this particular date) and that the date will be able to be changed. The key thing is – address this immediately by phone!

              1. Calendar Fail OP*

                Absolutely. I plan to call my co-chair, apologize, and discuss with her and lay out some options and we can move forward. It was a very stupid mistake on my part, but unintentional and hopefully fixable with limited pain to everyone. Oh well.

                1. valentine*

                  You don’t have to fall on your sword here. The sky won’t fall if you simply say: “Correction: March 12.” If you included the weekday, that helps you. If not, don’t include it now, so there’s only one piece for people to potentially get wrong.

  155. Rick*

    So, update on the new guy at my job, who’s constantly on his phone, walks out of meetings without a word, and is generally extremely disengaged. His boss spoke to him, and he’s gotten better…but he’s still pretty bad. He has stopped taking his out during meetings, but he treats me like tech support; he’s even taken phone calls and walked out of the office while I’m trying to show him how to do certain things for the job. I’m suspecting he took this job for relocation rather than anything else.

    I’m trying to be balanced in my assessment of him, and distinguishing my personal issues with him from his actual work, but it’s hard. As far as I can tell, he doesn’t have the leadership or communication skills that I’d expect of a senior or lead. It’s frustrating…

    1. ..Kat..*

      I would tell him that if he wants your assistance, he puts his phone away for the duration of your assistance. If he can’t, he can refer to the manual or google it or whatever. I hope you are able to do something like this. If you are not tech support, can you refer him to tech support or a manual or something?

      I sympathize – being treated like this is frustrating.

      1. Rick*

        Thank you. The situation is a bit nuts, because the first time I tell him “we’re working, put your phone away,” he’ll just leave it face-up on his lap. I shouldn’t have to tell a 27 year old man that. Matter of fact, I’m 30, and the other people I work with in their twenties do not do that. There’s often lulls in work. No one really cares if you check your texts while waiting for a simulation to run. But there’s a world of difference between that and going on FB or Twitter during a meeting, or while someone’s teaching you something you need to know for the job.

        When he leaves to take a phone call, I’m done with him for the day. We try to make it clear that we are lenient about that; I told my boss once that there was a family emergency (no further detail) and I might need to duck out. His response was literally “that’s okay, family comes first, and thank you for telling me.” This guy just gets a call and runs out of the office without a word, because … ?

        All evidence indicates that this guy Just Doesn’t Care and it’ll be reflected in his evaluation at the end of his probation period.

        1. valentine*

          Hopefully, he is job-searching.

          As a last-ditch effort, you could say, “When I ask you to put your phone away and you don’t, it comes across as disrespectful and you appear less engaged in this training. Going forward, would you mind putting away your phone prior to our sessions?”

          1. Rick*

            Oof yeah, I know I should do that stuff, but I haven’t. The idea of speaking to an adult man like he’s one of my kid cousins just feels wrong. Like a failure on his part. I’m trying to work, not discipline someone with no common sense.

            TBH, I’m fairly sure he took this job for the relocation. He could claim a fairly impressive set of achievements at his last company, which was a very big name place. But then again, I’ve also worked at megacorps, and it’s definitely easy to slip through the cracks there if the management of your department isn’t motivated enough to make you improve. We’ll see, the review for the probation period is on Friday.

  156. Labradoodle Daddy*

    It never fails to astound me how incompetent employees luck out due to having a lazy manager. Kill meeeeee!!!

  157. Balderdash*

    I work in a business that’s split broadly into 2 functions. Function A is a contact centre, and Function B does the behind the scenes work that keeps everything running. Both functions occupy the same office.

    I used to work in Function A, answering calls from the public. It was pretty fast-paced and could get stressful sometimes, but management did what they could to ease it – they were given a budget for incentives and they often used it to get staff involved in games and activities away from their phones and computers, to help energise and motivate the staff. Areas where Function A work are often loud and buzzing, full of chatter and laughter.

    Now, I work on Function B. My work now is much more project based and specific to me. Work comes in peaks and troughs – hours of manic activity interspersed with hours of careful monitoring, acting only when something goes wrong. I have to liaise with people at all levels throughout the business, I am responsible for delivering work to a high quality within strict deadlines, and to a certain extent am held accountable if it goes wrong. It’s very high-pressured. I earn more than I used to in Function A, but less than almost everyone in Function B, and less than low-level management in Function A.

    I do the job because I like it, and am good at it. My team is small and talented and committed, and it’s very common to see us working longer than our contracted hours, skipping allotted breaks and still thinking about work even at home. We learn work skills in our spare time, and spend hours each week teaching each other how to do things that help in our job. We’ve never received any training specific to our role. Several members of the team have suffered from work-related mental health issues. We get an enormous amount of work done, sometimes at the cost of our own wellbeing.

    We are the go-to people when staff from Function A have technical queries, and will regularly drop our own work to help solve their problems. Sometimes staff from Function A help us temporarily – we teach them things, take managerial responsibility for them, and are flexible enough to allow them to take time away from our projects when they have to go and have their go on whatever activity or game is ongoing for their department.

    A couple of weeks ago, the business announced it was closing the office, and everyone in it will be made redundant in different stages across the next 18 months. My team has 6 months left. Incoming work has already slowed down a little so we’ve spent some of our extra time learning more transferable skills and making plans for the future.

    Today, one of my colleagues brought in a boardgame. We took a break from our projects and played for half an hour, until our manager told us to stop.

    Later, we were told that someone had made a complaint up several levels of management about us wasting our time. Now, when our manager’s not around, someone from management is going to come and sit and observe us to make sure we’re working.

    I know they own our time while we’re there, and we have no right to complain about being told not to do activities that aren’t our jobs. But the blatant hypocrisy and micro-management makes me furious. I can’t help but feel they’re looking for an excuse to fire us to avoid paying out redundancy money.

    I know I just need to keep my head down. But the total lack of respect for what the team has done for the business and its impact on us feels like a kick in the teeth.

    1. winter*

      Yeah, I’d say they don’t value you and were taking it for granted that you and your peers are going above and beyond.
      Honestly when I hear there were mental health issues due to high stress, stuff is not good.

  158. fri-yay!*

    Maybe too late in the day for this but – what does your job do for OT?

    I’m exempt, but end up working late about 6 days a month, plus a few hours a weekend about every other month. Probably equal at least one full business day a month. I asked to flex these hours (to use as PTO later, or even come in late the same week) and was told no. “You work your set 40 hours, and if you work more, well, you are lucky to have a job. Consider it being part of the team.”

    Every other place I’ve ever worked has been reasonable about this, but maybe I was just lucky. Am I wrong to expect more flexibility? BTW, I am in an admin role.

      1. Wishing You Well*

        That’s true.
        There can be accommodations, though, depending on the company. My facilities guy had to spend an entire shutdown week at work due to an equipment emergency. He was given a week’s worth of unofficial comp time, but warned to take it very promptly. Upper management had a short memory and would likely not okay it if he delayed.
        On the other hand, a friend amassed huge amounts of overtime on a high priority/crunch time project. He planned to use the 3 months of comp time he accrued for a summer vacation. As soon as the project was finished, he was laid off.
        Be careful out there.

    2. Justme, The OG*

      If I work late one day, it’s expected that I can leave early or come in late another day. I’m exempt so no overtime pay.

    3. Never*

      I can flex time within a two-week time period, so long as I still get my work done and don’t just disappear during the middle of the day when I’m expected to be there.

      Any place that has the attitude of “you are lucky to have a job” is not somewhere I want to work.

    4. Nonni*

      We don’t have any official policy, and generally do not take any comp time. We do have flexibility otherwise (e.g., only have to take PTO for full day absences, appointments or “I’m running late” or “I have to step out early” situations are all fine.) Sometimes if it gets especially crazy your supervisor will give you a comp day (we’re matrix managed, so this isn’t I get a day and other teams don’t. It’s more if you put in 80 hours a week on Partner X’s project he’ll give you a day or two off when it wraps up, but Partner Y won’t.)

    5. Lemon Zinger*

      I’m salaried exempt, and we have a very loose flex time policy. It has to be cleared by management at least two weeks in advance, and is not at a 1:1 ratio.

      I’ve accepted that my job sometimes takes more than 40 hours in a week, and that I can’t always flex my time. It is what it is.

    6. Sleepytime Tea*

      While this was a douchey response to your request (lucky to have a job), as a salaried employee you do not get OT benefits. No extra pay and it’s up to the company as to whether or not they want to offer you flex time. I’ve held a number of salaried positions at different companies, and not a single one did flex time. The true idea behind salary is that you are being paid to do a job, not for a number of hours. If the job takes more than 40 hours a week, then that’s just the way it is.

      I did have a manager once who was flexible about taking a day off here or there without using PTO if we had been putting in long hours, but it was not an actual policy.

    8. Jules the First*

      Says the woman who worked six weeks instead of five in January and hit 40 hours on Wednesday this week (and yet somehow is still working)…we just deal. I try to be good about preventing my team from havig to do overtime, and a couple of times a year I’ll tell my boss I’m leaving early and not using holiday because overtime, but generally it’s seen as a fact of life.

    9. WellRed*

      Well, they’ve certainly shown you what a terrible company are, both the policy but ESPECIALLY that comment.
      Can you not work the OT? Companies that are that rigid deserve to have employees that are rigid.

    10. Kathenus*

      The tone of their response is ridiculous, but most exempt positions I’ve had get no regular comp time for working past 40 hours. I never consider it OT, since as an exempt manager I don’t consider my workweek a strict 40 hours, the occasional late nights or meetings on days off come with the package.

      My current boss has a sensitivity on requests like this due to someone in the past trying to do a one-for one request for all extra time worked. Because of this one past situation, we can’t even switch days off if we have to work a whole day off due to a mandatory training or activity – we just work the extra day. In fact he’s actually quite flexible with things if it’s presented a certain way. Saying – can I leave at 3 on Friday to take care of something at home? – the answer is almost always yes, if we have enough coverage. But saying – can I leave at 3 on Friday because I worked late yesterday – completely pushes his buttons.

      You learn your manager’s style and quirks and work within them. My bosses sensitivity on this seems to be an overreaction to the past employee’s issues to be sure, but in general not working a strict 40 hour week isn’t unusual for an exempt position, in my opinion. Your boss might not be resistant to some flexibility to leave early or come in late occasionally, it could be the presentation of counting hours past 40 and wanting to get comp time for all of them that’s setting off the defenses.

    11. fri-yay!*

      thanks for the responses. They helped me realize I’ve sort of merged two things into one: the OT issue, and the company culture. It appears the way my company does the OT is fair (or at least common) and certainly appropriate for an exempt role.

      I think it rankles me because the culture is just not a good fit for me. I’ve really tried, but the overall situation is the role is not what I thought it would be (think hired as Teapot Marketer, but the role is really Teapot Co Admin who does a little Marketing) and I just don’t agree with management on a lot of things. This OT situation in particular sticks with me for some reason.

  159. Advice on Becoming an Expat Please (ABEP)*

    I could use some advice about being an expat working in Mexico.

    I am looking for web sites and other resources about what job skills, certifications and/or degrees would make an American trailing spouse a highly desirable employee to employers in Mexico. (Most of the expat in Mexico websites are more about the day to day or social aspects of life.)

    I currently live in the US and have an exceedingly unique position(think Amur Leopard Care Expert), but am eventually planning to relocate to Mexico in the next 10 years with my spouse.

    So in addition to practicing my Spanish as much as possible, I will be going back to school for training or a degree. However, I want that degree that suits me and to be something that will give me an significant advantage in finding a job as an American expat in Mexico.

    If anyone has any specific suggestions about potential career directions for me I would also really appreciate that. I am really good with numbers, but not anything beyond calculus. I usually write well, (at least when I have a keyboard and full screen). I’ve worked with financial records, taught classes, run a restuarant, edited and written technical material and done more physical jobs.(I’m actually leaning a little bit towards IT, and have some informational interviews soon.)

    Thank you for your time.

    1. Figgie*

      No idea if you will see this, but here is a link to a blog where there are multiple links to various jobs in Mexico:

      http://qroo.us/2018/12/10/useful-apps-to-look-for-jobs-in-mexico/

      Here’s another link (same blog) that lists the amount of money some jobs pay in Mexico:

      http://qroo.us/2018/11/21/a-look-at-the-salaries-of-20-occupations-in-mexico/

      If you poke around on the blog, there is also a post on jobs that you can only get if you are a Mexican national.

      Hope this helps!

  160. Avocado Toast*

    Apologies if this has been brought up before…I probably ignored it because I’m chronically single haha.

    What is the best way to bring up the fact that you’re dating someone at work? I’m a private person but I don’t mind sharing if it comes up in conversation. Like if someone asks me what I did over the weekend I don’t mind telling them that I babysat my nephew or had a potluck at church or whatever, but I probably wouldn’t walk into someone’s office to show them pictures of my nephew or brag about the great casserole I made.

    So basically I’m heading on a promising date this weekend, and I don’t want to run around announcing it because then if it doesn’t work out I’ll look silly….but I can also 100% seeing it getting to be a year into our relationship and never having brought him up and then not knowing how to bring it up in conversation.

    Whether or not this goes well, what’s a non-annoying way to bring up a semi-important life thing like this?

    (Also, send me good vibes for my date!!)

    1. Avocado Toast*

      to clarify: the best way to bring it up at work, not that I’m dating someone I work with.

    2. Anonysand*

      First, I would figure out how open you want to be about it. It’s okay to keep it under wraps until you’re certain it’s going to work out, but if you’re fine talking about it now and dealing with the potential that you’ll have to share that it didn’t go so well later that’s cool too. Second, let it come up naturally during conversations. If someone asks you if you’ve got big plans this weekend/how your weekend was, that’s when I would mention it (again, if you’re comfortable at that point). If not, you can easily say that you just hung out with some friends/went out to dinner at a cool place/etc. It’s not a lie, but you’re just not disclosing it.

    3. Holly*

      I can’t stress this enough – there is absolutely no reason to share you’re going on a date for a general announcement unless you have that kind of friendly/sharing relationship with someone else. Like if there’s someone at work you’re really close with you just talk about it, like you’d discuss it with any friend. But there’s no reason to turn into a thing where you’re talking about your dating life to every coworker that comes around. I think it’s way too premature to be concerned that you’re not talking about someone you’re in a relationship with.

    4. Sleepytime Tea*

      Just mention it the same way you would anything else. What did you do this weekend? “Oh, I went on a date at xyz restaurant.” Got any plans tonight? “Yeah, I’m seeing this new guy and we’re going bowling.” You don’t have to make an announcement out of it. Bring it up the same way you would that you babysat your nephew.

    5. Gumby*

      I have had more than one co-worker leave on Friday single and come back Monday married. I wasn’t close enough to them to know much about their personal lives, obviously! In 2 cases I didn’t even know they were dating anyone much less engaged. I assume other people at work knew… And this is a sub-100 employee company where I know everyone not some huge conglomerate where you recognize 1/10th of the people you run into on any given day.

      All of which is to say you don’t have to mention it or announce it or converse about it at work if you don’t want to. For people that you are friendly with, mention it in passing if it’s relevant to the conversation. Basically don’t contort yourself to avoid mentioning it. Don’t contort yourself to ensure you mention it.

  161. It's me*

    this is just a vent. I left public accounting for a job in private. I am very happy with the work I’m doing, but we are overworked. When I interviewed, they said 40 hour weeks. I am working 10-12 hour days and weekends and my two colleagues have both been promoted due to someone on the team leaving which is fine and dandy but they’ve experienced raises due to that and me….. well I’m making the same amount but I’m working my butt off and it’s really hard to stay motivated when I feel no reward or recognition. I’ve been here almost a year and the only feedback I’ve received was an email that said I do great work. And while that gave me the fuzzies, I find it hard to believe there is nothing I can improve upon. ok end rant, back to work

    1. Combinatorialist*

      Have you asked for a raise? It sounds like you have been there almost a year and have taken on significantly more responsibility, and have been doing it well.

      Also is the schedule sustainable for you? Have you talked to your boss about getting your workload back down to something that can be done in closer to a 40 hour week? Is everyone working crazy hours or just you?

      1. It's me*

        My boss is working the most, what seems like 16 hours a day even on the weekends (based on skype, I have no idea how she does it). I did talk to my colleague who was promoted one level above me and she mentioned she cannot handle the workload and planned to talk to people higher up if this continues much longer. We are implementing new software and my boss seems to think that this is the light at the end of the tunnel…. but implementation will take months and I don’t think I can handle this for many more months. I was planning to ask for a raise on my anniversary, which is not too far off. But maybe I should be asking sooner than that

  162. Banana Pancakes, II*

    I’ve ended up a complete failure to launch despite my best efforts and I don’t know what to do next.
    I’ll be 30 this year and I’m still making poverty level wages. Last year I made $14,000. It’s the most money I’ve ever made. I have two degrees, am reasonably intelligent, and have been a top performer at every place I’ve worked, but I keep ending up on sinking ships. Case in point: my current job. It was fantastic at first, but then they abruptly switched us from hourly to commission only. I made it work and, for a while, was actually making more money than I had while being paid hourly. Then the work dried up and despite promises that it would come back, it hasn’t so far.
    I have $50K in student loan debt. I can’t pay it. I owe the IRS $2K in back taxes for last year. I can’t pay it. I’m disabled (enough to affect my QoL, not enough to receive assistance) and have no health insurance, no savings, and no family except for my SO, who was laid off in November.
    I’m looking for a new job, but I’m not getting responses. I’ve read all of Alison’s advice on cover letters and resumes, but I must be doing something wrong there. Interviews are another kettle of fish entirely. I suspect that I make a poor first impression due to my flat affect. Even when everything else is a good fit, I have a feeling that interviewers struggle to like me and can’t imagine having to work with me, or they think that I’m being disingenuous when I express enthusiasm for the work.
    I’ve done some acting workshops to try and improve my inflection, but even when it sounds cartoonishly exaggerated to my ears, if I listen to it played back, I sound like a bored robot. My first time through college, I was screened for autism spectrum disorders but was not diagnosed, as I don’t have any issues understanding other people’s inflection, sarcasm, or body language. I have no idea why I talk this way.
    I’ve been through a lot of really hard things and survived. Homelessness, abuse, addiction, mental illness. I had a stroke at 20 that, thankfully, did relatively minor damage. I’ve been sober almost seven years.
    With everything that’s happened, you’d think this would be the easy part, but it’s just not and I don’t know what to do.

    1. Waffles*

      What field are you looking to get into? What types of interviews have you been getting? This would help us out a bit more, if you don’t mind sharing.

      1. Banana Pancakes*

        I’m in architecture. My current job is related. I would say I get an interview maybe one time out of twenty. About half of those move past the first round.

    2. Hooray College Football*

      Michelle Singletary (WP) recommended this for debt: Go to debtadvice.org to find a nonprofit consumer credit counseling agency that can help you set up a debt repayment plan.
      Perhaps you can qualify for assistance from your state vocational rehab agency. I know the one in Ohio helped my sister when she could no longer perform certain tasks due to restrictions after several surgeries. They paid for retraining her for office work (a 2 year associate degree) and job placement. http://www.askearn.org/state-vocational-rehabilitation-agencies/

    3. Ihmmy*

      can you practice interviews with a friend and see if they can give you some feedback? I know it’s not the same intensity as with a stranger and for a real job but it may still help out!

    4. MaureenC*

      Does your state offer programs to help people with disabilities find jobs? If the disability does affect your QoL or mean that a position might have to offer accommodations, then you might be able to get job coaching through the state. Because of your stroke and mental illness, I would think that you’d qualify.

      Also, are there any free or low-cost theatre/performance classes nearby, or any community theater groups? Even if you can’t get a role onstage and are just a volunteer selling tickets or painting sets, you might become friendly with some of the actors and ask them for advice. (People love giving advice. Look at how many reply comments there are on this thread.)

      1. Banana Pancakes*

        That’s a really good idea to look into state programs. I do need accomodations at work, so thank you for mentioning that.

        1. MaureenC*

          Oh! And with regards to the flat affect thing: I hadn’t realized that it was linked with various illnesses, so it might be something that the state could give you advice on how/when to disclose it to employers, and if you should try to be more emotive during interviews or not.

  163. anonforthis*

    Where do I go to have someone look at my resume & cover letter?

    I’ve been applying for jobs for several months & I haven’t been contacted for an interview once. I’m following Alison’s blog posts fairly well & the advice on the open threads, but something isn’t clicking & I don’t know what. Should I also begin contacting the HR departments of the jobs I’ve been applying to & ask for feedback?

    For context, I’ve been applying to entry level office jobs mostly & I currently work in an entry level office job.

    1. Miss Displaced*

      The unemployment office usually has people who will look over your application materials for free. Most local community colleges also have career centers where you can make an appointment to review your materials and even videotape mock interviews. Sometimes also places like local community centers, churches, and even the YMCA may have career counseling services for free or low-cost.
      There are paid resume services of course, but I would avoid unless you truly don’t have anything else. They’re not always great for what they charge.

      Do you have any friends working at higher-levels, such as in management, who could review and give their opinion? I’m not sure I would call any of the HR departments unless you actually had some contact with them, such as a phone screen, where someone really did look more closely at your resume.

    2. irene adler*

      Is there a professional organization located in your area that supports the industry you wish to work in? By “office jobs” you mean admin support? IF so, there are lots of admin and exec support professional organizations around. Take some time to google, research the ones that would best fit your interests.

      When you find a professional org that seems to work for you, contact them. As for some job search and resume help. They might have folks willing to review your resume, offer suggestions- at no charge. They might even have suggestions on what you might do to increase your chances at scoring a job.

      You can try to contact HR depts. for feedback. But don’t expect much. They usually don’t spend their time on communicating with applicants unless they are interested in hiring them. Don’t spend the bulk of your time doing this; there’s better ways to spend your job-hunting energies.

    3. Sleepytime Tea*

      Professional services and career centers can offer a lot of very outdated advice, unfortunately. My recommendation is if you have a former manager or someone who you use as a reference, ask them if they might mind reviewing it. Especially if it’s someone who hired you before! Also, if you have friends who are in the type of position that you want to get, ask them to take a look. Their resume got them an interview, so they probably are on the right track.

      I have a friend who is a resume and cover letter guru. Every time she job hunts, no matter the job market, she gets multiple job offers. We all ask her to review our stuff before we send it out.

      You can try contacting HR for the jobs you’ve applied for, but honestly they have enough work to do, and volunteering to help someone with their resume isn’t going to be something they likely have time or inclination to do.

    4. AudreyParker*

      Thanks to everyone who replied to my post last week about temping & temp-to-perm positions. I have been trying really hard to internalize the “you don’t owe them anything” philosophy, although of course I have not gotten another call from them this week.

      I did however get a lead that puts me in a similar situation: the opportunity is actually interesting, however the initial pay is not just below what I was looking for but below my previous salary (which was below the salary before THAT…). I had been resolved to not keep going backwards in my career, but after being unemployed for an extended period of time I feel like I have once again entered beggars can’t be choosers territory and need to pursue it anyway. It makes me physically ill to do this, both because I know I can’t commit to this long term if I get it and will need to continue looking for something paying a livable wage and then feel incredibly guilty if I leave soon, and because all the job search advice I read assumes that you are going to be continually increasing your salary (often by significant amounts) and finding jobs that advance your skills so I feel like an even bigger loser for continuing to go backwards.

      I know I’m supposed to focus on “taking care of me” and being mercenary, and any job is better than no job if you need income, it is just incredibly difficult for me to be ok with this. Any suggestions on how not to feel like a horrible person all the time when you are in this situation are welcomed!

  164. My Spidey-Sense Was Tingling*

    I was asked by another internal department to provide some financial data. I didn’t really understand why (I get the why, but not the context and timing). Nevertheless, I prepared it, and got my manager’s blessing and confirmation the data was what she wanted to share, so we were on the same page. I sent it off to the requestor. Then I got bushwacked on a call with the requesting department head because the information wasn’t exactly what they wanted. They began pushing me to commit to stating data I wasn’t sure of. I suggested they contact my manager directly as I wasn’t comfortable stating something she hadn’t approved. But doing this seemed to exacerbate the issue, and they began asking about whether another person in my group could provide the data (thereby circumventing my manager, like WTF!).
    It was a frustrating call. Somehow my Spidey-Sense said I was being setup or manipulated.
    It would not be the first time from this department. What’s the take of the community?

    1. OtterB*

      I suggest going to email with your manager looped in to pin down exactly what they want.

      It doesn’t have to be bad faith. It could be just a time crunch and they are afraid that looping in your manager will slow down getting the answer they want. But, yeah, I also would be hesitant to hand out numbers that your manager hasn’t approved.

      As it happens, I was just on the phone with a reporter who’d asked about some data in an annual report I produce. This is not a routine thing for me, but it’s not unheard of. I calculated a number for him that was more specific to what he wanted than the full report table (include this subgroup, not that subgroup). It’s my job to answer questions about this data, so I didn’t need to get approval ahead of time, but I emailed my boss afterward to tell him what I had given the reporter, because (a) it was an interesting take on what we usually report, and (b) my rule of thumb when answering questions from reporters or from our board members that Thou Shalt Not Let Thy Boss Be Surprised.

      1. Miss Displaced*

        IDK, the past interactions with this department have been somewhat adversarial. I can’t go into detail, but it runs along the lines of things circling back months later blaming me because something didn’t get done that department was supposed to doing.
        Things improved with a change of staff, but I’m still wary. And it wasn’t anything time-sensitive.

    2. Catsaber*

      This sounds like just another day in the world of Data Reporting at my university. I got crap like that all the time, which is why I switched jobs and am slowly making my way towards the IT back-end, where I just deal with infrastructure.

      I was excited about data analysis/reporting when I first started, and now I absolutely hate it. Everyone has a different version of the truth; when you try to enforce data governance and standards, everyone bitches about it; no one gives you the full set of requirements for a report – they just expect mind reading. I sound pretty cynical – there are a lot of people out there who are great to work with, and understand and respect the whole data analysis animal. But in my experience, those that did not – the pushy, manipulative ones – were usually the upper management.

      I get that sometimes the requestor doesn’t know exactly what they need before seeing the first draft of the report – that’s typical! it’s the validation process! But when they get pushy or try to go around you, that’s when I get suspicious. So I’d just hold the line that it’s your manager’s call.

    3. Sleepytime Tea*

      So I have been on both sides of this – providing data and requesting data. It really doesn’t matter what it is, there is no excuse for attacking someone.

      All that said, if you have questions about the context/timing/whatever for the data you’re being asked to provide, then ask those questions. It helps to make sure that the client (internal or otherwise) is getting what they actually need. The people who don’t have access to the data may not really understand the sources and things, whereas you do. So when they make a request, you can ask some probing/clarifying questions to make sure that what they are saying they want is what they really need. Those two things are just not always the same.

      I’m an analyst. This is basically my entire life. If they push on you when you ask questions, just explain that you want to make sure that you are getting them what they need.

  165. MsChanandlerBong*

    After getting more involved in hiring/firing, I am amazed at how some people behave. I had to fire someone the other day. He emailed me 12 times within the span of three hours asking me to reconsider. Every email got more and more desperate. I told him the decision was final and asked him not to email regarding his account termination again. I received four more emails after that, two of which said they were his last emails on the matter. Finally, I was like, “This matter is closed” and explained that emailing the HR manager 16 times after you’ve been asked not to does not show a good ability to follow instructions or accept feedback.

    I felt a little bad after the first three emails (not bad enough to reinstate him, as he missed multiple deadlines and didn’t follow instructions on some of his freelance assignments), but by the fifth or sixth email, I was aggravated. By email #16, I was like WTH?

    1. fposte*

      But from his standpoint, what did he have to lose? It wasn’t like you were going to fire him again. I understand his behavior there more than when it comes from job seekers.

      1. MsChanandlerBong*

        True, but he had nothing to gain, either. I can see emailing once or twice, but when someone gives you a firm no, you should respect that.

        1. fposte*

          You should, but there are people without the wherewithal to do that, and I bet there’s considerable overlap between them and people who get fired. So I commend you on not just saying “This is why you got fired, Fergus.”

  166. BulletDodged*

    I was going to fly out for an all day interview. In my first response to logistics questions (a week ago), I noted I’m a nursing mom and need one pumping break in an 8 hour day. Maybe it was a flag that they didn’t respond to that part of my email, but I assumed they’d put it in my schedule.

    Schedule shows up 5 (business) days before interview: no pumping break.
    I respond, saying I need the break for health reasons and to please adjust the schedule.
    T-minus 5 days: crickets in response to the email I sent immediately upon receiving theirs (it was last Friday, so ok)
    T-minus 4 days: crickets in response to calls and voice messages left with the hiring manager. (Monday)
    T-minus 3 days: crickets in response to “Are we sill on?” voice messages left with three people.
    T-minus 2 days: crickets in response to “If I don’t hear from you, I’m not getting on the plane tomorrow.”
    Me, yesterday: Well, I’m not getting on that plane.

    I am still at home. Why is this a bullet dodged? Well, in that first logistics email, I asked if they could book my travel instead of me. They did so. Thank goodness I am 1) not interviewing at a place that doesn’t want moms as employees and 2) seeking reimbursements from ghosts.

    2. fposte*

      That is weird and slightly sinister, with a tinge of possible discrimination; it’s less obvious to ghost somebody than to audibly freak out that they’re requesting accommodation.

  167. Jaid*

    50,000 government employees still haven’t been paid, including people in a unit near me. They worked the whole time, processing forms that came with fees. I figure that their payroll was screwed up because the system assumed they would get paid out of the fees, instead of getting the back pay like everyone else.
    *insert cussing here*

  168. jessica*

    I heard from my dream job company asking if i was interested in a casual position in their company. i replied yes and gave my current availability and have now heard nothing back. its been two days and i am unsure what my next step should be? do i call, do i email back again inquiring? what is the reasonable amount of time to wait to hear back from this guy?

    Thanks in advance:)

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      I guess it depends on what availability you gave – were they times for next week? If so, I would reply to the thread to confirm they received your message and reiterate that you’d love to connect with them. If they were times for later in the month, I’d wait til next week to follow up.

      1. jessica*

        He stated that the position starts Feb 18th. i let him know what days and times work around my current full time job. i also let him know i was willing to drop shifts at my current job to work with them. trying not to sound too desperate… lol! but also want to show how committed i am to getting my foot in the door at this company.

    2. Sleepytime Tea*

      You’re in the waiting game. 2 days is not that long. Give it a week, then send a new e-mail saying that you weren’t sure if your previous e-mail got lost or something (it happens, and this is just polite), and say that you wanted to confirm that you’re interested and here’s your updated availability.

      After that, you’ll probably just need to leave the ball in their court.

    3. Someone Else*

      Wait a week before following up. 2 days is too soon to worry, even though I understand why your brain might go on overdrive.

  169. Cute Li'l UFO*

    I had my in-person with the place yesterday! I was so excited to present my material and meeting the cofounder was great. My thank-you reiterates my interest, my schedule as I transition out at my current company, and what I would bring. All that great stuff.

    I found out the company I’m in the process of leaving is doing some really underhanded stuff. Things are getting put into place–hours getting cut since I called out the CEO (not to his face) on yelling at me and insulting me. My coworker contacted me at 9:30 last night to let me know some of the things happening, and I’m incredibly angry right now. I know I’m transitioning out but work is going over my head, I got the Kubrick stare from CEO over lunch my last in-office day (been told to WFH for the next couple weeks… with no work), and I heard from my trustworthy coworker that Manager (remote, TX, coming off of pat leave) admitted he didn’t know what was going to continue with my contract and the CEO asked coworker if he needed to remote wipe and/or revoke access to systems. Coworker says no, don’t do that.

    I’m pretty disgusted.

    But I’m also keeping my fingers crossed for the job I interviewed!

  170. Banana Fana*

    How do you stay motivated at your job when you hate the work and aren’t being treated with enough respect? Not outright abuse, just low pay, being held to strict butt-in-seats schedules when it’s not necessary, limited WFH ability.

    I admit I’ve sunk into laziness in my current job, because I can’t make myself care about how many llamas I brush in a week when I’m treated poorly and in the middle of a job search. But two of my teammates were recently promoted because of their high llama totals. I feel above the work I’m currently doing, but I need to do it well in order to do something else. I know intellectually that being a star llama brusher and putting all my energy into better brushing is the best way to get a llama training job, but it’s so hard to find the emotional desire to overcome the slump.

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      Ugh been there. The whole start of my career was spending years doing things I didn’t care about / hated in order to get ahead and not have to do those things any more. It was really tough. It sounds like you’re emotionally done at this job and would be better served to find a new job you can work your way up in, versus suddenly trying to up your productivity at a job you already dislike.

    2. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      This will probably read a little blunt… but here goes.

      I think you need to get over what you think you should have and focus on what you do have. You may feel above the work, but obviously you are not, otherwise you would have been promoted along with or instead of your other teammates.

      I don’t know how you need to reframe this, because, I’ve never felt above a job. Every job I’ve ever had (including the crappy ones) I have learned from and done my best at. I can’t really get my head around doing otherwise. I can say that I haven’t thrived in some of my jobs, but all that meant was I either didn’t have the temperament or in some cases the right skill set. It doesn’t mean that it was the job’s fault. I still managed to learn from it.

      1. valentine*

        If the training or other jobs pay well, why didn’t you set your sights on them and improve?

        If they also don’t pay well or the employer has only low pay to offer, it makes sense you wouldn’t exert yourself when it won’t properly improve your conditions, and leaving is the thing to do.

  171. NotaPirate*

    What are your thoughts on being asked to track a problem employee s hours? Same level as you at the company, sits near you.

    Unrelated question, I know you dont normally goft bosses but in academia, should you gift your advisor when you graduate phd?

    1. Lemon Zinger*

      When you’re asked to do something at work, you generally have to do it.

      Don’t give advisors gifts– a nice thank-you note will suffice. I think the same no-gifting-up policy applies in academia. My grad advisor was very explicit that he cannot and will not accept gifts.

      1. Reba*

        Re: gifts, some people are more firm on this than others. Some committees wouldn’t accept cookies after your defense because BRIBERY! While others are happy to share treats or whatever. I gave my committee members chocolates after the fact. But I really really like them :) A sincere card is probably the best gift.

    2. Miss Displaced*

      I think that is really a job for their manager.

      I’ve never had an academic advisor, so I’m not sure of the etiquette on gifting. They’re not your manager, so I see this as being more of a personal relationship. IDK? I suppose if you want to? I would imagine it would be something of fairly low monetary value, such as taking them to lunch or coffee, or perhaps a small personal gift they’d enjoy. A thoughtful card might also be perfectly fine. I guess it depends on how well you know them and how closely you worked with them.

    3. That Girl From Quinn's House*

      For a situation like this- being asked to track the hours of a peer- I think it’s very important to get confirmation on why you’ve been asked and what’s going to be done with the result.

      I have worked for bosses who ask for that feedback on another employee because they trust me and my judgment and discretion in their absence. I have also worked for bosses who are toxic and ask for feedback on other employees so they can say, “That Girl says you’re not doing your job, what do you have to say about that” and create drama and rifts between employees, constantly rotating in and out who’s in the the “in crowd” and who’s in the “out crowd” every few weeks, creating a hostile work environment.

      Before you agree to track a peer, make sure you are not in the latter environment.

    4. Birch*

      Your 2nd question–depends a bit on the culture. You should definitely ask around and see what others have done. A card is 100% a must, but if you do want to express more, and it’s something that’s done in your field and area, what I did for my 2 PhD advisers was give each a book relevant to their personal interests and that are some of my favorite books. But they were like €10 each books, and I was really close with both of them. If you don’t have a lot of contact with advisers or didn’t get super close, a card is definitely enough.

    5. Sleepytime Tea*

      Personally, I would not want to be asked to be responsible for something like tracking another employee’s performance in any way. I am not a manager. I would probably say something like “I’m really not comfortable tracking a co-workers performance in any way, including their adherence to their schedule. I am happy to provide you with any general observations I have or answer any questions, but taking responsibility for tracking them makes me uncomfortable since I am not their manager.”

    6. ..Kat..*

      When my husband graduated with his PhD, his advisor took him out to dinner to celebrate (along with the people on his graduate degree committee (sorry, I do not know the precise wording here for the people who were on the committee critiquing his dissertation)). One of the people on his committee gifted him with a bottle of wine from his winery. All of this is to say, no, do not gift your advisor. A nice note detailing appreciation is good. Gifts, no. FWIW, this is in the USA.

      PS. I was only the girlfriend at the time (and a broke student), but the advisor made sure that I was invited to the dinner and that I would not be paying for my dinner. And, the advisor spent at least 20 minutes during the dinner telling me how proud he was of my boyfriend completing his PhD and other words of praise.

  172. writelhd*

    There was a post recently about what percentage of listed qualifications one should have to reasonably apply for a job, and I’ve run into a related one: many job postings list “required” qualifications and “preferred qualifications” and I’ve come across one where I meet 100% of the required qualifications but only a few of the the “preferred” ones.

    Of the 7 “preferred” qualifications, I have 1 for sure, some experience with 4 more of them but I think it’s clear they’re describing someone with deeper experience than I currently have with those things, and the other two are certifications that I would not be eligible to get without a lot* more experience hours or going back to school. However, my industry is so niche that while I’m sure there *are* people in it who have that whole list or at least more of it than I do, I don’t think there are very many of them. I do think I’m pretty good at what I do and could quickly grow into the 3 on the preferred list that I have some experience with already.

    Would others consider it worth applying with that kind of a match/mismatch?

    1. Sloan Kittering*

      I would apply. You’ve got 100% required, and some element of 5/7 preferred. Sure you might get beat out but unless the application is arduous you might as well throw your hat in the ring, you’re obviously not going to get laughed out of the room.

      1. writelhd*

        Yes, that was my real question here, gut check on “would applying for this get me laughed out of the room”

        2. Sloan Kittering*

          You are clearly way too hard on yourself! If you’ve ever been involved in hiring, you see CRAZY applications that have literally zero requirements and are not even in the field, so it’s unlikely you’re going to offend the hiring manager by applying if you meet 100% of the requirements.

  173. EddieSherbert*

    Anyone have advice for a doing your desk/computer job when your dominant hand is injured?

    I sprained my wrist earlier this week and it’s been awful! Navigating my computer mouse and typing are soooo slowwwww. It gets painful after an hour, 2 tops. I’ve been trying to take hourly 5-10 min breaks to ice my wrist, and then a couple longer breaks to just rest it (think two 30 min breaks instead of 1 hour lunch break).

    But I’m SO frustrated, and just in a sour mood about the whole situation! My work is pretty flexible and understanding, which is awesome, but I have a huge to-do list right now and can’t afford to fall behind. Getting some help from coworkers, but still.

    1. BadWolf*

      About 3 years ago, due to a lot of stiffness/sorenes in my right arm/shoulder/neck, I actually swapped to mousing left handed. It was pretty awkward for 2-3 weeks, but now it’s natural. You can swap the right/left button orientation on the mouse buttons so it’s mirrored for the left hand.

      That transition might be longer term than you are planning on!

      1. Bostonian*

        Yup. Me too. I got tendonitis in both hands, but dominant hand was worse. I was able to learn to mouse with my non dominant hand pretty quickly. Also, if you can work off a laptop, I found those track pads easier to use with my non dominant hand and caused less stress on the injured hand.

        Also, reset expectations that you’re not going to be as productive.

        Hope you heal soon!

    2. Admin of Sys*

      I had to switch mouse hands due to repetitive stress, and it was surprising how quickly I picked it up – a few days and I was nearly as smooth. But the typing is harder – Any chance you can get a dictation system setup?

    3. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      For mousing – would a trackball help? I can’t stand the kind with the ball in the middle, but I’ve been using a Logitech trackball with the ball under the right thumb (I don’t think it’s ambidextrous, unfortunately) for about five years now and it’s been much easier on my wrist than the regular mouse. Also requires far less desk space!

    4. NoLongerYoungButLotsWiser*

      Broke my wrist 1.5 years ago. Dictated all my emails via text message, sent the text to my work email, and then copied and pasted it into whatever document I needed.
      I fixed returns/punctuation (if needed) with the other hand / mouse.
      I briefly became a lot more succinct.
      I also picked up the phone a lot more.

    5. winter*

      When I injured my hand I got a doctor’s notice and was out for at least a week because I work a desk job. I don’t know if that’s in the cards with your job.
      I also switched the mouse to the other hand for a while and my company was fortunately flexible on equipment that was healthier for my wrists once I was back in office.

    6. NACSACJACK*

      At the risk of outing myself, I learned to type one-handed. The home keys for one-handers on a QWERTY keyboard are FGHJ. The middle two got straight up and down. The other two go left or right up to four keys over. Just had to learn where on my keyboard it felt natural to rest my hand over my home keys. Your thumb is used to space/spacebar. For caps, I use the other hand for that only.

      For the mouse, I put it on the left, but i dont switch the buttons for left-handed. I recently bought a vertical mouse to alleviate wrist strain and for the first time, had to switch the buttons for left handedness.

      It’s been recommended to me to switch my keyboard to Dvorak style, which was the dominant keyboarding method before WWII. Dvorak style can be set to Left Hand or Right Hand which QWERTY can’t be. To help adapt, you can buy keyboard maps to lay over a standard keyboard. Dvorak style concentrates on hitting the more popular keys first and then ranges out from there.

    7. HappySnoopy*

      May be late to comment, but I just went through this. Definitely switch mouse hands and if can, get ergonomic mouse and keyboard. I cant believe the difference it makes using the ergonomic one.

      Also dictate as much as you can if possible. I was using voice to text on work phone and emailing myself draft docs that way.

      Definitely keep ice handy and see about those brace pressure bandage things for swelling too. Also something I learned too late. There is a difference between regular physical therapy and hand occupational therapy, but worth looking into if fits in your health plan.

      Good luck!

  174. Crylo Ren*

    Just had to tell a salesperson to eff off after they emailed my personal email address twice – and called my personal cell phone twice – to try to sell a software platform to me. The interesting thing is that the salesperson claimed that they were reaching out because “we’re connected on LinkedIn”, but they weren’t connected to me at all. I checked my LinkedIn privacy settings to make sure that my email and phone weren’t displayed to anyone besides recruiters (because I am open to opportunities)…but the guy doesn’t seem to be a recruiter profile type.

    So either this guy somehow got my details from another lead capture form that I filled out eons ago (and is only now reaching out even after I’ve long unsubscribed from this company’s messages)…or he’s fudging their profile type on LinkedIn so that they can get access to more details for selling, which seems shady AF.

    Has this happened to anyone else? I’m totally soured on the company, which sucks because I’m a member of an industry group with one of their employees,; their platform does seem cool and I’d be happy to check it out another time, but now I’ve blacklisted them mentally because I despise aggressive sales guys. I’m wondering if I should reach out to that employee to let them know about this.

    1. irene adler*

      You might let the sales dept. know that someone there is using some boundary-crossing sales practices that really put their company in a bad light.

      Not sure what your employee connection would be able to do in this circumstance- unless they also work in the sale dept.

  175. Anon Anon*

    Today I found out that starting next fiscal year (in a few months):

    – Our “market rate adjustments” (raises) will be required to average 1% across the organization. Sooooo…. not actually a market rate adjustment. BTW we don’t get performance raises.
    – Our performance bonuses will be required to average 3% (they currently average 4%).
    – We will no longer be getting an annual 5% contribution to our 401k.

    2. Jerry Vandesic*

      Not a competitive compensation package. It might be worth looking around to see if another employer has a better offer. Since you are not in a hurry, you can wait until you find something that better rewards your effort.

  176. Never*

    Any advice for making “what do you do for a living?” chitchat when you hate your job but other people think it’s cool and/or impressive?

    I came across the suggestion in Your Money or Your Life to answer with “I’m a [passion], currently working as a [job] to make money.” but it’s so far out of the normal response that I’ve yet to successfully implement it.

    1. fposte*

      I think it’s fine to say you do what you do. I think one possibility is to be okay with other people being more excited about it than you are. Another is to point them. “I’m an astronaut, but I’m looking to get into something with more office space because of my claustrophobia.”

    2. Admin of Sys*

      Can you be honest? That, combined with a quick turn around, might be enough for anyone decent at small talk enough to follow the turn. “I’m a SHEILD agent, but it’s actually really boring and the uniforms chafe, and I hate talking about superheroes. Have you seen the last episode of The Good Place yet?”
      But if it’s not a good idea for you to express unhappiness with your job, you could try the old standard of “But I do superhero wrangling all the time, and I get tired of talking about Stark’s sentient toaster. What’s it like working at AIM?” Most people will be willing to talk about themselves, even if what you do is theoretically more interesting.

      1. Never*

        I just don’t want to be a downer, and I’m not sure where the line between “honest” and “negative” is.

      2. Wishing You Well*

        I work in Tahiti. It’s a magical place.

        I agree with Admin of Sys. Reply with a question.

  177. Paint by Numbers*

    To decorate or not to decorate?

    I have a new job, with an office. I haven’t decorate it yet because I’m only there part-time (don’t office share) and I don’t want to spend the money. However, I’m getting comments from my co-workers who think it’s time I ‘moved in’. I brought two lamps to add light to my work space. They think I’m not decorating because I’m not going to stay. I’m not doing it because I’m not interested in buying or bringing in personal items.

    1. I don't decorate my office either*

      I hate this whole aspect of “having to decorate.” Like no, I don’t want to bring in photos of my travels, my family members or my friends to the office.

      However, if they are being pushy, is there anything that the office gets mailed that you can use as “decoration”? i.e. cool postcards. Do they give you a birthday card on your birthday? Is there something at home that is just “taking up space?” Have it take up space at your office. *shrugs*

      1. Paint by Numbers*

        Good idea! “Is there something at home that is just “taking up space?” I’m gonna rummage like it’s a 1980’s yard sale. I might buy some more funky coffee cups and use those for pen holders. I have one item on my desk: a round egg plate that my niece painted for me at one of those painting pottery shops. It’s garish and I love it. Not sure why she chose an egg plate but it’s turned out to be a great holder for pushpins, paper and binder clips.

        Thank you for the brainstorming!

      2. Coffee Bean*

        Ugh those darn comments annoy the crap out of me.

        Got to agree here, if you have stuff at home you can bring in to just sit there then do that. Otherwise see if you can either hijack a sad office plant, or you can bring one in. But in time you will most likely acquire company “stuff” (hats, rubber duckies, whatever) that you can leave out which should stop those comments.

      3. ANon.*

        Seconding free office stuff. Any paraphernalia from working in my office (water bottles, cards, etc.) is now part of my office decor. On the walls around my computer, I have quick/handy guides for work (phone numbers, upcoming deadlines, etc.). It’s not personal decor, but it may appease your coworkers and make your office look a little more lived in.

        I also had an extra vase that I brought in. I filled it with seashells that I’ve collected from various vacations. Could also do the same with nice stones/pebbles. Easy, a talking point, (“Oh, I got that when I went to Hawaii!”) and, best of all, free.

        1. Paint by Numbers*

          “On the walls around my computer, I have quick/handy guides for work (phone numbers, upcoming deadlines, etc.)”

          Yes! I could frame those or at least put them on nice scrapbook paper and liven them up a bit. As I said to another comment, our national branded non-profit has educational posters that I can put hand, and it’ll help me become more familiar with the programs.

      4. Antilles*

        Another way to do this is just to go online and grab a few photos to print from the office printer (presuming your company isn’t ridiculous about “business use only only only”). Even something as simple as taping a photo of your college logo or a nature scene or some other fairly generic thing makes the place look more ‘occupied’.

    2. writelhd*

      I save old calendars so I can rip out the nice pictures and put them on my office wall as decoration, since I have the calendars anyway. I really like having the pictures of things that I like in my office . But really, everyone’s tastes are different so if other people decorate and you don’t feel the need to, who cares.

    3. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I avoided a lot of decorating because my last job left me feeling like everything was temporary. So I brought in things that are easy to move. I have two plants, a photo, a couple of framed prints that I lean against things (rather than hanging them), and a calendar. Then things just started piling up, like trade magazines and Post-Its. Small things can help make the space look more lively.

    4. Admin of Sys*

      Plants help immensely, if you can keep one alive. A mostly empty office with a pothos on the desk will come across as minimalist on purpose, rather than ‘undecorated’. And if you have the desk space or shelves for it, grab a couple of book ends and put out books. (they can be industry books) You don’t have to have family photos to make a space look claimed, you just need it to not look abandoned.

      The other option is to thrift store decorate, assuming you appreciate that aesthetic. Grab a mug you don’t love from home and drop the pens and pencils into it. Grab a small jam jar with the label washed off and fill it with pretty rocks or shells. Old wall calendar pictures, as writelhd mentioned. Think of it more as a collection of props that accurately portray you as someone who wants to stay at the job, rather than an attempt to actually ‘personalize’ things.

      1. Paint by Numbers*

        Love it! “Think of it more as a collection of props that accurately portray you as someone who wants to stay at the job”

        I’m with a national branded non-profit and they have posters and stuff that I should download and put up to help me gain knowledge of our programs. Perhaps that will keep me motivated (but I like the job so I don’t need it)

    5. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      Give me your office address and I’ll send you some of my junk :)

      I currently have two full moving size boxes under my desk of crap that I’ve accumulated for the past 2o years + 2 drawers full of other stuff.

    7. Wishing You Well*

      Free or thrift-shop, just make sure you wouldn’t care if your items “walked off”.

  178. Anon Anon*

    I manage a program at a nonprofit. My colleague also manages a program, of similar size and budget. The one difference in our responsibilities is that he manages one part-time person. I don’t manage any employees (my program is staffed with existing staff members who allocate a portion of their time to my program, including the person that he manages). We have about the same number of years of relevant experience (I have slightly more overall, although he has been at this organization for several more years than I have), and we both have graduate degrees. He is paid 40% more than me.

    The structural reason for the pay inequity is the salary bands that we’re classified in. In my understanding of the requirements for each band, he’s one or two levels overclassified, and I’m one or two levels underclassified.

    I’ve been fighting this (and bigger picture pay equity stuff) for years, and I’m just boiling over with frustration.

    … really just here to complain

    1. ..Kat..*

      If you are a female, that gives you gender equality to push back against. This is illegal in many states. If it is in your state, you could use the Alison phrasing of “I don’t want us to get in trouble for violating the law. This could cost us fines and penalties.” Note the use of ‘we’ and ‘us.’

      Unfortunately, you may have to job hunt to find fair pay.

  179. Anonathon*

    I work in a very client-oriented industry, and my company just laid off almost 10% of our workforce, including some client-facing individuals. In our location, one of the two admins was let go. Laid-off Admin was at the company for 17 years and had deep connections with many clients. Remaining Admin has only been here for 2 years and there is limited overlap in who works with what clients, so she isn’t familiar with the clients Laid-Off Admin worked with.

    Our branch wanted to proactively send out an email to clients saying that Laid-Off Admin is no longer with the company, but that Remaining Admin is here and can help with anything the clients might need. We wouldn’t have included any details about the circumstances behind Laid-Off Admins departure. But we wanted to proactively let clients know that Laid-Off Admin was gone and to empower the Remaining Admin to deal with their issues without things being awkward. We got push-back from HR saying that we absolutely cannot send out this email because it will expose us to undue liability. I’m honestly not sure how, so I wanted to ask the open thread: does this make sense? Is my HR being overly cautious or is this standard practice when someone is let go?

    1. V*

      FWIW: My company doesn’t do this either whenever someone leaves a public facing role like that. What we do instead is send an email introducing their new contact, and that they’ll be handling everything going forward, that they’ve been with the company for x years, etc talking them up about how wonderful they are. Nothing about what happened with the past person, and if it’s asked, they just say they’ve shifted to another role/are no longer with the company.

    2. writelhd*

      I’m not an HR person, so I do not know why they would say that, but I do know we have been in a similar situation. In our case one person was laid off and their established clients were re-distributed among the two remaining client-facing people. The two remaining client-facing people sent the emails/phone calls themselves to their new clients, simply saying so and so was no longer with the company (no reason why) but I’m your new point of contact, let’s talk for a minute about where you are at, etc. I do think it makes more sense coming from the new point of contact (so the new contact can start to build rapport), rather than just from the company at large, but I don’t know about the liability part.

    3. AnotherAlison*

      That’s essentially what we do. Generally, the person taking over the clients or the manager a level up who may have a relationship with clients’ boss will send an email to let them know who the new contact person is. We’re a big company and I doubt HR even knows what we’re doing, but seriously, how would they like it to be handled? You’re controlling the message this way. Where’s the liability?

  180. nonprofitnancy*

    I posted on an open thread a few months ago about the problems I’ve been having with my boss (inappropriate comments, lack of boundaries, etc.) and since then things have escalated.

    I decided to take my concerns to HR and ask them for talking points to address the situation myself – mainly I wanted to cover myself in the event that anything went wrong. Which it did, spectacularly.

    Though the feedback conversation itself was fine, albeit tense and stressful, my boss proceeded to be noticeably cold to me for the next two weeks – going so far as to bring food to everyone in the department but me on one occasion. She then asked me if we could have a follow-up conversation about my feedback. When I asked her over IM if she could please let me know in advance what it was she wanted to talk about, she stonewalled me and got increasingly petty, saying “you didn’t give me any heads-up on your feedback so why should I.”

    She ended up getting frustrated by me pushing back on that sentiment, called me into her office, and verbally harangued me (almost yelling) in a rapid-fire manner for about 10 minutes, saying why do I think I have the right to violate her time and space by asking for a heads-up on the conversation; how dare I think she had bad intentions and how could I not realize that she only meant well with her actions; why was I so mad at her; and what did she do to make her feel like I hated her.

    She obviously didn’t hear I said when I was giving feedback – like I said above, I had vetted my talking points with HR and made sure to emphasize several times that I didn’t think she had bad intentions, that I understand that feedback conversations are difficult, and I appreciated her hearing my concerns.

    I pushed back respectfully on the things she said during the rant in the interest of deescalating her intense anger. We ended the conversation on an okay note.

    Those conversations were in December. Since then, she has continued to be noticeably cold, although at times she seems to be making an effort to be cordial. Our working relationship is still not great, though – she’s not good at the core responsibilities at her job, does not have good listening skills, and has continued to make ageist comments about me on several occasions (I’m much younger than her).

    Also since then, she has been playing blatant favorites, spending most of her time with one member of our team (she manages five people). We recently went to an out-of-town conference, and not only did she spend literally the entire time with this one member of the team, but sent group texts to all of our coworkers to make plans on several occasions while leaving me, and another coworker who is the only other one on the team to have given her negative feedback, out of the discussion.

    I’ve been retaliated against at a past job after giving negative feedback to a boss and this is exactly how it started. I know that I might be bringing my past experience to this a little bit too much, but my current boss has clearly demonstrated that she is petty and unstable.

    Our reviews are coming up in a few months and I know I should raise my concerns before then, but I’m not sure how. Should I file a complaint with HR? Ask them for advice on talking points again? Talk to my grandboss (who is my former manager)? Any advice would be appreciated.

    For what it’s worth, I’m committed to staying here for at least the next four years, if possible, and my boss passed her probation review for some reason beyond me (she has had many issues outside of our working relationship), so she is my manager for the foreseeable future.

    Apologies for the long post and thanks in advance for replies.

    1. WellRed*

      I don’t think HR should have given you talking points in the first place. If you have a good relationship with your former manager you could maybe talk to him? Or, if you are being left out of things, especially if that impacts your job, it’s probably time to email HR with “Complaint of possible retaliation” as the subject line.

      1. nonprofitnancy*

        Genuinely curious, why shouldn’t HR have given me talking points? For background, I went to them and specifically said that I didn’t want to make a formal complaint and wanted to address the issues myself but needed help.

        1. WellRed*

          I guess it just doesn’t seem like an HR function to me. I might have asked a friend or therapist or something. If it was helpful for you, that’s great. Unfortunately, your boss is unreasonable and you’ll have to judge how far you want to press this. And, I do think it may be worth pressing.

          1. valentine*

            It can be an HR function.

            nonprofitnancy, email HR about the retaliation and make a formal charge, if that means letting HR talk to her. It’s horrifying that you plan to stay with this abuser for another four years. (I wonder who can adapt Heather Corinna’s intimate-relationship guidance on that for the workplace.) When your manager next harangues you, can you tell her it’s not productive, suggest rescheduling, and leave the room? She can’t hear feedback because she experiences critique (And possibly any difference of opinion?) as a personal attack. Your second-best hope (leaving being the first) is for her to see someone else agrees with you, be that HR or a higher-up.

    2. Wishing You Well*

      Yup, go back to HR and talk about the retaliation. Start documenting your interactions with your boss.
      4 years is a very long time in this environment. Please consider any options you might have.

    3. Kathenus*

      I don’t know if this is a possibility with your organization, but if the goal is to improve the working relationship between the two of you, a mediated/facilitated conversation can be really beneficial. Whether there’s someone on staff who can do this (such as HR, grandboss), or someone from the outside. While it’s not common, it’s been done at several places I’ve worked and having someone with no skin in the game to help work through the problems can be really beneficial.

      1. valentine*

        That could be disastrous with this person, but it does seem like the manager thinks this is between nonprofitnancy and her, so I do wonder whether, once she knows HR knows, she would dial the abuse way back or just be sneaky about it

  181. Vortex*

    Corporate world, and the company I work at has issues with favoring men over women. (All you need to do is look at the exec level to see it, but even straight down into the trenches it’s pretty prevalent.) While they’ve tried to fix it a little bit over the years, it’s still pretty obvious that sexism is thriving in my company. That being said, HR today is advancing 3 people to an interview and is making the women follow their required process but then one man doesn’t have to, he goes straight to the interview with the VP. (Both women have more education, and much more experience, and are in equivalent positions to the man.)

    If at this point in time HR is condoning it and going against their own set down processes, is there anything I can do anymore? My manager doesn’t see it, my manager’s manager is a part of the boys club, and now HR… is there anything left?

    1. WellRed*

      What is your role in all of this? If you are part of the hiring process, could you point out how this looks?

      1. Vortex*

        Sadly I am not apart of the hiring process for this, as I have the tendency to call people out bluntly when I see the sexism that pops up in my dept, so we have less issues here. Mostly I actually know everyone involved in this whole mess and am trying to offer some help.

        1. LNLN*

          Since you know people involved in the process, maybe remind them if the 2 women ever found out about this situation, they might make a complaint to the EEOC and the company would have a big headache on their hands.

  182. writelhd*

    Another gut check question here while I’m at it. How normal is it to be in the kind of position where your role and the structure of your company and quite possibly your entire industry leaves you the potential to make major mistakes that don’t end up becoming evident to you or others for at least 6 months, usually more like 10-15 months later, but when do they come up they are usually pretty much not fixable, or are else hugely expensive to fix? When your supervisor offers very little direction when you ask him how to do something, so you do and no one questions you on it, until you learn waaaaaay later that you missed something major while trying to act, and now your supervisor is just angry? When there seems no other way to come to learn everything you’ll have to anticipate except by failing and seeing the consequences?

    1. Rick Tq*

      I’m in large computer system sales on the technical side so errors I make can show up long after the sale. We have a saying: “Every question on a sales call has a war story on what happened when it wasn’t asked.”

      Talk to your peers about what they have seen and how they avoid it. My personal rule is to determine how the error was made and then slipped through the layers of checking we do on orders (which includes line-item reviews with the customer). I check one-shot errors but go much deeper and are more concerned if the same problem crops up multiple times. We recently had to start asking how deep customers computer racks are, newer systems need much more depth than older ones.

      Employee errors are a cost of doing business, and one-shot/blind-sided errors are usually due to a lack of information or an unstated assumption that wasn’t true. If you haven’t been trained properly then your supervisor has some responsibility too.

  183. Anon Anon*

    Ok, I did my complaining in a couple of separate posts above. But here’s where I need advice:

    For a lot of reasons (see above posts for some of them), I’m profoundly frustrated with my organization. Maybe I’m burned out. What I know is that I’m angry about my work at the moment, and I’m reacting more strongly to ordinary job frustrations than I want to be (and it’s noticeable to colleagues). (I’m a woman, and a Midwesterner, and my “strong reactions” look like expressing exasperation in public meetings when I should instead by bringing well-thought-out concerns to one-on-ones, not, like, punching the wall or something.)

    What it feels like is this: I’m frustrated with an ongoing situation (pay/title equity), and whenever something reminds me of that — even in a tiny way, like noticing that everyone else on an email about a task that we all have to do is classified one or more levels above me — it takes me over my frustration limit and I feel like crying/can’t focus on my work and instead sit at my computer and marinate in my anger for an hour.

    I have a great but mostly powerless direct manager, and although I have a very strong relationship with the head of our division (my manager’s manager), he is not going to get involved.

    Burnout doesn’t feel like the right description. I’ve been seriously burned out before — I had a breakdown and left that job because I couldn’t resolve the situation that was causing it. This isn’t like that. I’m not overworked. I don’t have difficulty unplugging. I keep sane hours, get and take plenty of vacation, and have a lot of flexibility in my work.

    So what advice do you have? I think I mostly mean how I can help myself get over/live through this feeling (although if anyone has any recommendations for to how to try to change my situation I guess I’d take those too). Do I need to take a vacation?

    2. Wishing You Well*

      You might be a highly sensitive person. Nothing wrong with that – people are born that way.
      If you’re interested, consider researching in-the-moment de-stressing techniques: breathing, etc. It’s best to short-circuit a spike of emotion, but it takes knowledge and practice.
      Whatever the issue is, looking for answers is a really good sign. I hope a better future is in store for you.

    3. Reba*

      I agree with both of the above — feeling you have options can be powerful, as can reminding yourself that, at least for the moment, you are choosing to be there.

      And it sounds like you could use help retraining your brain/thoughts from these spirals. Can you practice compartmentalizing, like “this anger is legitimate, but I’m going to think about that later because now I have to write the whatevers before 2 pm” ? I actually visualize things like setting the thoughts in a box, floating them off in a river… cheesy but helps me in the process of resetting.

  184. totesanon*

    Drama at the office today! One of my coworkers quit without notice. He’s very intelligent, but I know deals with mental health issues and could no longer handle the frustration of the work. He literally did what most of us dream of doing, and I’m kind of getting secondhand glee from the frustration it is causing our managers. My boss is pissed though.

  185. Gaia*

    Hey….could use some advise.

    I’ve been in my new role 2 months and one of my coworkers (a Sr teapot specialist vs the rest of the team which are teapot specialists) has a really bad relationship with our manager. Literally everyday brings a new reason to rant for upwards of 30 minutes about his (real or perceived) failures in his role. For what it is worth, some do have merit but nothing is egregious and absolutely nothing warrants this behavior.

    The thing is he clearly recognizes they have communication issues and I’ve witnessed his efforts to adjust but she won’t as she views it as entirely his fault. I don’t think he knows she complains to the rest of the team.

    It literally makes me dread working with her and that’s terrible because she is someone I could learn a great deal from. I make a conscious effort not to engage (as does one other team member, the third splits about 50/50) but it’s exhausting and distracting. Worse, we work closely with other departments and I worry she’s doing this with them, too.

    What can I do here? As a manager, I’d want to know this is happening but I happen to know one of his real faults is a lack of discretion sometimes and I worry discussing it would damage my working relationship with the Sr teapot specialist – someone I literally work 10 ft from and work closely with all the time.

    She has not picked up on my cues that I’m not interested in engaging, not on my direct statements of “I don’t really have an opinion/I don’t see it that way…let’s get back to x” and I don’t see it changing on its own.

    What would you do?

    1. fposte*

      I would ramp up the directness. “I don’t want to talk about our manager with you. Could you talk about something else, please?” “If we can’t focus on the work, I’m going to go work over there on my own for a while.”

      1. Gaia*

        That’s good. Sadly “work(ing) over there” isn’t an option because we currently work in a meeting room while the remodel finishes and there’s nowhere else to go.

        I have specifically said “I’m not interested in talking about this” but she usually then proceeds to talk loudly to other people and I still have to hear it.

        1. fposte*

          Yeah, you can’t stop her conversation with other people if they want to listen. Sorry you’re stuck in a room with that, though.

    2. Miss Displaced*

      I think AAM had a post about something like this a while back, where the OP was sympathetic to the complaints, but found it exhausting. Basically, the advice was along the lines of.

      “I’m sorry you’re having difficulty with this. I understand it makes you unhappy, but if you can’t resolve things with X, perhaps you should evaluate if you can continue here.” If they truly are that miserable, it might give them the push they need either way, or at least shut them up.

  186. Gobsmacked*

    My SO attended a “town hall” meeting last week, where the CFO said that the company had posted record breaking profits and had x billion in cash reserves (yes, that’s a B), but that they’d missed goal by 0.1%, so no bonuses. And anyone who asked about when bonuses were getting paid wasn’t the kind of person they wanted working here.

    1. Bob*

      SO MUCH SIDE-EYE.

      Wow. Mind if I ask what industry? A bit scared with those numbers it might be mine and I’d hate for that to be my company!

    2. Miss Displaced*

      What the CFO REALLY MEANT was: “There will only be bonuses for us executives, so don’t ask about it.”

    3. Antilles*

      “the CFO said that the company had posted record breaking profits and had x billion in cash reserves (yes, that’s a B), but that they’d missed goal by 0.1%, so no bonusesfor the regular employees.”
      Fixed that for you.
      If the fiscal numbers really are that good, I refuse to believe the execs aren’t all getting a large bonus this year.

    4. DietCokeHead*

      Wow, yeah I also have a hard time believing that execs aren’t getting bonuses. Ugh. That’s crap.

    5. Miss Displaced*

      It’s one thing to make an announcement like that. Companies don’t give bonuses for many reasons (mergers, purchases, reinvestment, etc., etc.). But the comment: “Anyone who asked about when bonuses were getting paid wasn’t the kind of person they wanted working here,” screams RUN! It’s rude and entitled and dismissive of hard work. Employees have a stake in the company, they deserve to know WHY there aren’t any bonuses.

  187. Jayess*

    Shoot. Might be too late in the day for this to get any traction.

    I’m looking for some insight into what sort of careers I could make a more or less lateral move into from library science. I have a diploma in Library and Information science, and have been at a public system for two years. It’s okay, but I’m finding that there are some ways it’s not a great fit for me. I’m back in school to finish an undergrad, and possibly an MLIS so that I can move into management (which would be a better fit for me), but I’m worried about getting stuck on one track that I may not flourish in long-term. I know there’s a lot of librarians around AAM; any insights into what other paths I should be investigating, or doors that I should be keeping open? Some of the things that make me good at public library work are: excellent customer service, flexibility and openness to change, outcome focused (programs meet library goals), good emergency management (lol I work in a rough neighborhood). Some of the things that I am good at that I’m not using: management skills, risk and liability assessment, writing skills… and I’m just kind of bored at work unfortunately. It’s not high enough pace, nor are there enough tangible outputs for me to feel like I’m accomplishing things. Before library science I was working in Outdoor Tourism (which was great for me but did not pay the bills).

    What sort of opportunities/careers should I be keeping an eye out for?

    1. anita*

      I wish I had gotten an undergraduate degree in business and tried aggressively to get into consulting when I was younger. I think it helps if you are at a big school where there is on-campus recruiting from larger firms. I also wish I had worked harder and gone to a really top-notch college where there are on-campus recruiters. But I think another possibility is to get internships in big companies while in school. There are tons of good jobs in the corporate world if you can get your foot in the door.

      1. Jayess*

        Ha, I’m not *that* young any more. The school I’m attending is pretty flooded with business students; it’s a bit of a local joke. Consulting has always kind of scared me, I don’t know that I have a solid idea of what a consultant might do. It’s one of those vague words to me that if someone says “I’m a consultant” to me I just kind of sagely nod my head and hope that they offer up more information without any prompting.

    2. AnotherAlison*

      You sound like you should be a general manager at a gym, like a YMCA. IDK, that’s what popped in my head when I read your post. I guess I wouldn’t spend more time in school if I were you and didn’t know what career path I wanted, unless it were simply to finish an undergrad degree to “check a box”.

      I know a few MLIS degree holders who work in corporate strategy and market research, so that’s another option.

      1. Jayess*

        I’m moving towards the MLIS so that I can feel a sense of forward motion in my career. In two years I already maxed out the earning and growth potential in my field in the geographic area that I live in. I’m not opposed to getting the Master’s; I would be a competent manager. I’m also open to using my undergrad to jumping off into teaching, and becoming a teacher-librarian. My undergrad will be in geography, so I’m keeping an eye open to things like GIS work as well, or potentially getting more into physical geography and branching back into the outdoor sphere. I am just weary to the bone after a scant two years in the public library service of the bloated bureaucracy that can take place there. Gym management would probably require a degree in kinesiology, or business with a strong kinesiology background. While I’m outdoorsy, it was the tourism, interpretation, area management and trip planning that I thrived in, not the physicality.

    3. Anon Anon Anon*

      Look into the tech side of information science. There’s a lot out there. A lot of MLIS programs offer courses in those areas. Those course are a solid investment. Even if you don’t plan to go into one of those fields, it’s a good thing to have available as an extra option.

  188. Here Goes Nothing!*

    Please keep your fingers crossed for me. I have just put the wheels in motion to formally dispute my salary and terms and conditions with the backing of my union.

    I think there are going to be some difficult days ahead for me, but I’m ready to fight to get what I deserve. Good vibes will be greatly appreciated and very much welcomed.

  189. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

    I read the letter about unhinging one’s jaw to eat chocolate and…yeah. I’m in New Orleans and totally did that with a beignet. To catch all the powdered sugar. Totally.

    1. revueller*

      it’s the only way to do it. hope it’s as delicious as im jealously imagining it right now.

  190. Book Badger, Attorney-at-Claw*

    I’m a little over two weeks into my new job, and I love it! I’m taking it slow and getting to know my job, everyone in the office is very friendly, and I’m also getting to know the bigger legal community here, which is great! And tonight I’m going out with some of those attorneys, and then tomorrow I’m spending the day with a work friend. I’m excited!

  191. Can’t Wake Up*

    So I’m really struggling with getting up and getting to work on time. It started about a year ago, when we had a bunch of turnover and I got extra burnt out.

    I don’t really know how to fix it. There’s stuff in the morning that are excuses (house is freezing cold, for instance—not something I can change, but also wasn’t true last summer). I am trying to get better at getting to bed at night (sometimes a struggle thanks to roommates who don’t have a schedule to follow and the fact that I can’t close my door most nights). I saw a doctor last year and while she thought I might have depression, she was useless beyond saying it wasn’t a thyroid issue. I’m also a night owl and the bedtime/wake time are earlier than what my body actually wants, so it’s a constant struggle. My official hours are as late as can be allowed.

    I do also have multiple alarms. I can’t make them louder—roommate complained about them a few years ago so I had to turn the volume down.

    Any other suggestions??

      1. Can’t Wake Up*

        I like parts of it and the idea of it, but there’s been a bunch of turnover and managers being not-great that adds a lot of stress. And talking with coworkers about the turnover opened my eyes to the fact that I’m being paid below company standard for my position, and that our company is paying below local industry standard. That was definitely a blow to morale. And the constant tardiness weakens my position to ask for a raise, as does some other things.

        Trying to get another job is a tall order, especially since all potential references are at this company and the culture here means that they WOULD tell my bosses that I’m looking.

    2. Jayess*

      I have a hard time getting out of bed when the house is cold. I pile a housecoat or super warm hoodie right next to the bed that I can immediately throw on when I get up, and I find wearing socks to bed helps. I’m not generally a fan of that, but in the winter, you do what you have to I guess. I also bought myself one of those alarms that mimics the sunrise. It gets bright in my room over half an hour before the alarm goes off. I have two alarms: the sunrise alarm, that sits right next to my bed. And my cell phone, that sits plugged in on the other side of the room. Sunrise alarm goes off first. I sit up and groggily sit on the edge of my bed shrugging into slouchy warm things. Five minutes later, cell phone alarm goes off. I *should* be upright by then, and I *have* to actually move across the room to even hit the snooze button on the alarm.

    3. KR*

      I also have a hard time waking up in the morning and literally the only two things that work for me are A)going to bed within a set time frame every day that I know allows me to wake up on time and B) tracking my arrival time every day in my work planner. I have a time window when I like to be at work. 7:30-7:40 is on time and anything before that is early and good. 7:45-7:50 is not ideal but ok, I won’t beat myself up about it. 8 is the absolute latest I can acceptably be at work in my mind and anything later than that is BAD. These are all limits and guidelines I set for myself. As long as I’m in before 8 most days & mostly consistent in my work hours my manager is happy. I have a habit tracker on my work planner and I mark what time am I get to work everyday and either do green, yellow, or red around the time to mark how good or bad it was, like a stop light. Then I allow myself to celebrate when I have a week where the majority of the time I get to work on time or early. It has the added benefit of me being able to look back through the week and identify reasons why I was late that day and how I can avoid it in the future. By tracking it, it really helped me identify how serious my problem was and how much I needed to improve and be accountable to myself.

      1. KR*

        Also wanted to note that I give myself allowances for times when my dogs might get sick or make a mess or I might feel sick which slows me down in the morning, ect. Instead of putting the time that I arrived that day I will usually put SICK or whatever circumstance out of my control made me late. It’s my way of being kind to myself and differentiating between days where I was late because I couldn’t get myself together and days where I was late because of circumstances outside of my control.

    4. Sabrina*

      I used to be a bad sleeper and now I am an excellent sleeper. Is it falling asleep that’s a problem or just waking up? Beyond the normal “no screens after 8, go to bed at the same time every night” advice, I would recommend getting a wrist alarm, a sunrise alarm clock and a heated mattress pad (truly the greatest purchase I have ever made). I also will give myself a reward for getting up on time – maybe it means you have time to enjoy a cup of coffee or watch a little bit of tv.

      But honestly, having a quiet and private room is the main thing. If you can move your bed to a different side of the room, that might be helpful but if you are getting woken up throughout the night, you’re not going to get good sleep. I’d recommend a sleep app for your phone that can tell you how much uninterrupted sleep you are truly getting every night.

      1. Tired*

        I second the heated mattress pad. I don’t sleep well if I’m cold and cranking it up in the winter = lots of restful and cozy sleep.

      2. Southern Yankee*

        I second the sunrise alarm clock. Made a huge difference to me in ease of getting up in the morning, especially in the winter when it’s still dark when I get up.

    5. Folkie*

      If a doctor has suggested you might have depression, it might be worth seeing a different doctor/therapist to see if they can help. Otherwise, I find that having a set routine at bedtime means I sleep better. I also try to mentally set the time I need to leave the house 10 minutes earlier than I have to leave so that I’m always ready on time.

    6. Manders*

      For the short-term practical stuff: Is there anything you can do to control the temperature of your room? You’ve got a lot of alarms, but have you tried adding a wake light? Since you can’t make your alarms louder, have you tried unconventional alarms (like: alarms that make you solve a math problem before they turn off, or move across the floor so you have to chase them, or even just an alarm you can’t reach from your bed) to make sure you’re fully awake when you turn them off? Is it possible that you’re using your phone/computer too close to bed, or starting your bedtime routine too late, or doing something else at night that’s causing your body to get stuck in that night owl cycle? Is there any other part of the morning routine you could streamline, like choosing an outfit the night before?

      For the long-term stuff: Are you still feeling burnt out? Do you think you could get over that with rest and mental health treatment, or is it time to move to a new job? Do you feel like this in the summer, and if you don’t, have you spoken to your doctor about the possibility of SAD or vitamin D deficiency? Do you need to change your living situation so you don’t have roommates, or you’re with roommates who keep the same schedule?

      Much sympathy, I also REALLY struggle to get out of bed when it’s cold and I haven’t slept well.

    7. Sleepytime Tea*

      One thing that can help is changing the noise/song/whatever your alarm makes. Your body gets used to it and starts to tune it out. If you change it up, sometimes it’s more “startling” to your brain to hear an unexpected noise and you will wake up to it. I’m a night person for sure, and have a horrible time getting out of bed, but changing up the alarm every once in awhile does help.

      If quality of sleep or falling asleep is part of it, I take melatonin and find that it does help me get to sleep. You can get it at the drug store.

      If it’s a motivation issue… it’s a little different. Obviously feeling rested when you wake up helps remove some barriers, but if the issue is that you just don’t want to go to work, then sometimes that can mean finding a new job. It definitely takes time to come back from burn out, but sometimes it just isn’t possible when you’re in the same job and dealing with a lot of the same things.

      Do you have any vacation time? Could you take a week off just to rest up and refresh?

      1. Can’t Wake Up*

        I think motivation is a huuuuge issue, and not just with getting up for work. Most mornings I’m actually awake and mentally yelling at myself to get up, and I just…don’t.

        I have a ton of PTO and I’m struggling to find days to take off. I’m taking two days off next week to turn the holiday weekend into a 5-day break (I would have taken the holiday week off, but there was a scheduling conflict with my coworker that’s my backup and it was easier for me to do my thing without taking time off than for her to reschedule). Even when I take vacations, they’re not helping much.

    8. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      Vitamin D. In previous winters (like, all of them) I struggled massively to get up with less than like six alarms. This winter I’ve been taking 5000 IU of vitamin D daily and while I still have two alarms set, one is the wake up and the next is the “stop reading the news and Facebook and the morning AAM post and get out of bed.” The difference is just amazing. My husband tried it too, and while it wasn’t QUITE as drastic a change for him, it still made a big improvement.

    9. LQ*

      I’m not sure that this will work for you because roommate but here’s what helps me (I would sleep 20 hours a day in the winter if I didn’t work).

      Lights on timers. And ideally dimable lights on timers. My goal is being in bed by 9, sleeping by 9:30, and awake at 6, I have until 6:30 to slow wake, check email, fuss on my phone whatever before I’m up up. (I’m always up for at least an hour in the middle of the night so I’m still not getting a full 8, but close.) They turn down from 7:30-8:30 or so. I have another set that lingers but is fairly soft until 8:40. I try VERY hard to not alter this pattern. (Turn them back on after they’ve dimmed/off.) They start to slowly come on from 5:45-6, the very soft one first, then the over head one. I’m at Full Light by 6:15. I have a watch that measures heart rate and will do a wake when my sleep is lightest any time between 5:45 and 6 am. At 6 an alarm goes off no matter what. At 6:15 another slightly more aggressive one goes off. The 6:30 alarm is elsewhere (bathroom) and basically no longer needed, I’m nearly always up and have it off before 6:30 which is success to me.

      The point for me is absolutely the staged lighting. If you can manage it at all I cannot recommend it enough. I went from barely able to get to work at all to being able to mostly function like a person in the winter. Staged down and staged up. It helps the wind down and wind up be gentle. Going, Now it’s 10 pm and I must go to bed and be asleep immediately for I shall awaken in 8 hours fully refreshed thing did not work for me. It was never, ever 8 hours of sleep. It was never restful and always panicked and exhausted.

      I also hold it as an absolute on weekends too. But I nap. When I want more sleep on the weekends I can nap as much as I want (3 naps on a saturday is really my happy place). But I have to go to bed on time and get up on time. Anything else makes Mondays impossible.

      I hope some of that helps.

    10. Gumby*

      Wait, is the roommate who made you turn your alarm down the same one who keeps you up late at night? Because it sounds like you are doing all of the compromising there. She can *either* be quiet at night so you can sleep which will allow you to get up with your quiet alarms *or* deal with loud alarms in the morning (and, frankly, I wouldn’t be tiptoeing around getting ready either). Obviously the first is the ideal.

      1. Can't Wake Up*

        Sometimes she’s the one keeping me up (grrrr starting movies at midnight on the surround sound system when that’s literallly the other side of the wall from my bed), but more often than not it’s the other one who’s keeping me up. Or their cat, who likes to steal my cat’s food but can’t digest it. But yeah, they suck and aren’t going to change.

        Unfortunately, I’m not in a position where I can move out (and won’t be for years), and I have even less standing to try to get them to move out.

        1. valentine*

          Why can’t you close your door? Can you switch rooms?

          Find an online sleep disorder quiz. If it rings true, see if you can get a sleep study.

    11. Erika22*

      I do a combination of the sunrise alarm and SAD lamps.

      First the sunrise alarm: it starts turning on half an hour before the alarm part goes off, so by the time the alarm actually jingles your body has already started registering the light and that it’s time to wake up. (I do have my backup phone alarm set but rarely need it.)

      Second, the SAD lamp: my partner uses it more, but I use it when applying my makeup as that’s the only time I’m in one place for 15 mins to get some effect from using the lamp. Even if it’s just placebo, at least the bright light wakes me up more.

      My only other suggestion is to have something you’re looking forward to in the morning. Your favorite pastry for breakfast? Wearing that new blouse it’s been too cold for so far this winter? Trying a hair tutorial you saw online? Just something small like that also helps get me out of bed because I have something in the immediate future that I’m excited about.

      Signed, not a morning person who struggles in the winter

      1. ..Kat..*

        I bought a sunrise alarm, but the directions are so confusing (even googled for better directions) that I cannot get it to work. What brand do you have? Is it easy to set?

        1. Erika22*

          The brand is Fitfort? It’s from Amazon – it was fairly priced (under £30) and easy to set up. I like it enough that we got a second one for my partner’s side of the bed!

    12. Book Badger, Attorney-at-Claw*

      Have you tried apps like Pillow or Sleep Cycle? Those apps “listen” to things like your breathing or how much you’re moving around at night and calculate when you’re in the lightest point of sleep, then play a gentle tube to wake you up gradually. It’s been so helpful for me to wake up with that instead of a blaring alarm (which I now only use for special occasions).

    13. strike*

      I use alarmclock xtreme, i set it up so i have to enter a captcha to shut it off. Forces me to be awake. I’ve had days where i tried 3 times before being awake enough to actually make sense of the daedric runes on my phone, suddenly realizing they were in fact normal letters as i finally gained consciousness.

      As for roomates pushing back on your alarm volume, I’d remind them that getting up for work is how you pay rent and if they would like to see continued rent payments putting up with it is probably in their best interest.

  192. Hopeful*

    My current workplace is dysfunctional (to say the least) and I’ve recently started my job search. I applied for a job last week, using Alison’s resume/cover letter advice and I got a call on Monday to schedule an interview! Fingers crossed that it works out. This job is in a field that is much closer to what I want to do career-wise than my current position, so I’m very excited.

  193. Ops manager*

    I’ve been my job for 2 years, it’s my boss and another coworker in my same role.

    I recently moved to a new office close to he coworker, and I can’t help but notice how much closer she is to my boss. Our work doesn’t overlap – but my coworker is always taking to my boss, or going to lunch with her. my boss and I have never really had that type of a relationship. I’ve also worked here long we than my coworker. I’ve always gotten good reviews, and I’m sure it’s a personality thing, but I can’t help feeling a little badly about it.

    I guess I worry she would favor her in a promotion, but I think I mostly just feel badly about it. Am I being childish?

    1. WellRed*

      I don’t think it’s childish at all. No one likes to be the one left out, even at work. And your concerns about favoritism are valid. Honestly, even if the coworker deserved a promotion more than you, you will never be quite sure it wasn’t because they are buddies.

  194. OG Karyn*

    Need advice on catching up on work after having a 4-day flu.

    If I worked in a traditional office, obviously I would be asking coworkers to help, or my boss would have farmed my work out. But I work for myself. I had a combo of flu and strep that knocked me on my ass (literally, slept for four days) and I was physically unable to work. Now, I’m so behind on all my clients’ work and of course they all think it’s “urgent,” and I have NO idea how to catch up on all of it. I find myself so overwhelmed that I’m doing that thing where I don’t do anything because I’m paralyzed by it. I’ve never actually been in this situation, despite having this business for four years (I’ve never been as sick as I was). Add to that the hypothyroidism I just got diagnosed with, and I’m *still* trying to bounce back from the sick.

    Any thoughts/advice/encouragement would be much appreciated.

    1. Crystalline*

      That really sucks. I feel you on the thyroid thing. And on the freezing! I tend to do the same thing. Apparently I seem to be under the impression that if I don’t move, nobody will be mad and it’ll all go away. LOL.

      I’d just be honest with people. If you haven’t, let them know you’re getting back on track after being ill. Most times people appreciate knowing they aren’t being ignored, and we all know life just conspires against us sometimes. I don’t know how hard and fast your deadlines for client work are, but perhaps it’s reasonable to adjust expectations for the next few weeks? Let them know they aren’t forgotten, and work may just take a little longer than it usually would. I’d hope, even if it is ‘SUPER URGENT,’ they’d understand. If it IS really super-duper-extra-urgent, they’ll need to know so they can get someone else if it’s that bad.

      Other than that, I would break down work into manageable chunks. Some people find help in to-do lists and that kind of thing so nothing is forgotten and it starts feeling less like a giant spaghetti-esque wad of *STUFF* and more like little jobs you already know you can do, that don’t have to be done all at once.

      I hope you feel a lot better. You can do it. <3

    2. LNLN*

      Communicate with your clients! Let them know their work will be delayed. Give them your estimated timeline. Just acknowledge this may inconvenience them. Since this has not happened before, any reasonable person would cut you some slack. Hope you are feeling better soon!

    3. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      Step 1: Re-prioritize the work as needed
      Step 2: Based on priorities establish a reasonable schedule. Keep in mind you may need to pad since I’m sure you are not 100%.
      Step 3: Communicate new deadlines to clients
      Step 4: Return to step 1 as needed if you learn something new from your clients.

      At most you are 4 days overdue. So this could be as simple as pushing everything you have by a week.

  195. Emily*

    I’ve been invited to intern at a national lab that has some pre-existing relationships with my department. It seems like the “hiring” process is pretty informal – as long as I can work out an agreement regarding my project and start/end dates with the person who reached out to me, I’m in.

    The only thing that’s throwing me off is how much freedom I seemingly have in negotiating my project. I assumed that he would suggest some possible projects to me (things that they’re already working on), but instead he gave me a pretty long list of research areas and asked me to send some more concrete ideas that interest me. Not only am I trying to figure out how specific he means (like where on the spectrum of “teapot design” to “how does the width of the teapot spout affect the quality of the tea”), I’m also trying to think about if I’d like to do something pretty similar to my current research (I’m a graduate student in the sciences) or if I’d like to use the opportunity to try out something new.

    All good problems to have, and tbh I’m pretty excited – I’ve never been sought-after or in-demand before! But if anyone else has experience with something similar, please feel free to weigh in.

  196. Potential Llama Farmer*

    I work as an admin in the teapot department, but due to various skills I’ve been doing some part-time one-on-one work for the llama department. I like the teapot department, and I’ve got some nice designs approved, but it’s not my passion. Llamas are definitely my passion.

    I had a meeting this week with the Head of Llamas, and she asked, “If an opportunity was to come up in the llama department, would you be interested?” Yes! She is the head of hiring and budgets, so I am really interested and excited.

    I’m not going to say anything to my Teapot Manager until I get a firm offer, naturally, but I’m just so delighted!

  197. Queenie*

    Question for anyone who has a remote/work from home position. How did you find your job? Job hunting has been painful, the constant rejection letters are depressing and the area I live has rather limited options. My partners job is our priority, and at any time he can be uprooted and moved anywhere in our home country (Canada) so I am thinking of looking for something I can do remotely! That way I don’t have to constantly look for new jobs or appear as a job hopper. Any advice? Or how do you even like working remotely? Thank you!

    1. BelleMorte*

      I hear good things about flexjobs.com apparently it’s a membership site, but only posts legit jobs.

    2. n*

      Remote.co seems to have some good, legit-looking jobs.

      I don’t work remote anymore, but I used to. It felt really liberating at first– I could work from a coffee shop! I could work in pajamas! But after a while, it felt kind of isolating. It was really easy to just never leave the house, never put on pants, never eat anything that isn’t cereal for dinner. And the result of working anytime I wanted to was that it was hard to feel like there was a separation between work life and home life.

      I’ve found that working on-site and being part of a team helps me stay more disciplined. I put on work clothes. I go into the office. I work 9 to 5. I go home and don’t think about work or do work, so my home life feels like my home life.

      But it really depends on your personality. If you’re very disciplined, you can make it work. I think working from a coworking space would also help a lot, because then you still get to go into the office… just with a little bit more flexibility than a regular job. I think that would have made a huge difference in the enjoyability of my remote position– I just couldn’t afford it at the time.

      1. DaffyDuck*

        I work 100% remote. I heard about this job thru a relative who has a friend at the same company. I love working remote but it isn’t for everyone. I have a separate room for a home office that I always work at. I get dressed and work during “normal business hours” (OK – dressed is old sweats and no make-up but it isn’t what I slept in). I am an hourly employee, so I clock in and out of work and can only do overtime with supervisor approval which helps cut down working all the time/weird hours. I have always held jobs with little/no oversight from supervisors and have no problem organizing/motivating myself. Everyone on my team is very conscious of being polite when communicating online as we do not have tone of voice/body language to cue off of. I have hobbies and volunteer work where I socialize with other people on a regular basis, and make a point to connect with friends for activities (meet up for lunch or go to the movies).
        IMO remote work isn’t for people who think they will be able to work full time at the same time they are taking care of children/running a home business (during the same hours)/hanging out at the coffee shop. It isn’t for folks who are not able to separate work time from non-work time. It is really not for people who need face-to-face contact with with coworkers on a daily basis.

  198. Crystalline*

    I was laid off in December. Since then, I’ve been trying to get the ducks in a row to start my own business. Problem is, there’s something holding me back. I know the ‘something’ is me, but what I don’t know is how to get over myself. I’ve tried to launch a business before and it didn’t work. The things I’ve learned from that are very valuable, and I’m confident that I can be successful at what I want to do, this time.

    Except…I’m struggling. I know my ideas/designs are good, I know I can do this, if I could just commit 100%. So why can’t I? Scrolling through job-postings reminds me over and over again how much I dislike working for other people (most of the time), yet I still feel like there’s something missing. So much of the advice I’ve been reading boils down to ‘just do it!’ If it were that easy, everyone would, wouldn’t they? I feel like there’s something wrong with me. Don’t want to work for someone else, can’t seem to get my own train on the tracks, yet very aware I can’t be trapped here in limbo forever.

    Help. Does anyone else know what I’m talking about, and if so, how did *you* ‘just do it?’

    1. Anon Anon Anon*

      One step at a time. Every day, do at least one thing to move your business forward. And find an additional source of income. A lot of people work for someone else, at least part time, while launching a business. If you want autonomy, you can try gig economy work, dog walking, stuff like that.

      Starting small is actually a good business strategy. Meaning that if things are going slowly, that’s not necessarily a bad thing. It pays to be cautious and to test your product with a small customer base before investing in a bigger roll-out. So if you can start it as a part time thing with a small percentage of the people you hope to eventually reach, you’ll educate yourself about what’s working and what’s not working before sinking more money into it or getting other investors on board. That’s not just useful for the development of the product itself; it also gives you data that you can present to lenders and investors when and if you decide to pursue those sources of funding.

      Just don’t fall behind on your quarterly taxes! Whatever you do, and whatever it takes, pay the quarterly taxes on time!

      1. Crystalline*

        Thank you <3 Those are great suggestions. Particularly since I've been telling myself over and over that I can get a part-time job, just to make things work, and that doing so doesn't mean I failed already. I guess I HAVE been feeling like everything has to go all at once. But you're so right. It doesn't!

        Yes! Always good advice–I found a tax guy a few years ago and have been stuck to him ever since. Navigating regular taxes hurts my brain, let alone the business kind.

        Thanks so much for taking the time to reply. I really appreciate it, more than I can say.

        1. T. Boone Pickens*

          I can sympathize with you OP. It took me a bit of time to launch my own business despite knowing full well that I was going to do it. I think spent a month of telling myself, “Oh, tomorrow will be the day I’ll get around to starting.” Finally, I sat down and made a list of everything I thought I’d need to do to at least get myself up and running and be able to accept payment for my services and then I set out and get 1-2 things checked off the list each day. Once you start to get in the groove, it’ll get a lot easier. I also don’t hate the thought of a part-time job if nothing else to reinforce the desire to get your business up and running. Trust me, once you get things going you’ll never want to work for anyone else ever again. The past 6ish months for me have been the literal best. No more workplace drama, no more meaningless meetings, no more side-eye from coworkers for bouncing a little early despite being the top salesperson and being directly responsible for their holiday bonuses…it’s just been the best.

  199. Middle School Teacher*

    Super excited! I got accepted into an overseas program that works with teachers in developing countries. I’m off to the Caribbean for July!!

      1. Middle School Teacher*

        I had to google RPCV, that’s not a thing we have in Canada.

        It’s a thing called Project Overseas, and I applied through my teaching association, and they picked me! They send teachers to parts of Africa and the Caribbean, to work with teachers, help set up schools for girls, and generally work to improve education!

  200. Mimmy*

    Entering BEC stage with the management at my job, especially the director! It almost feels like I don’t matter to them. He ignores scheduling-related requests and schedules staff meetings on days I’m not there! Also, they schedule case conferences for days I’m not there! This just a few months after saying the conferences would be on certain days going forward. Now, they’ve changed to a different day.

    My direct supervisor has been great in hearing me out but I don’t know that she’s able to sway anything. I want to stress to her that this is all making me a little crazy (not in those words, obviously). I’m getting tired of feeling ignored or shut out.

  201. HigherEd Person*

    Posting this question on behalf of a former student that I’m still in touch with (I have their permission to post)

    They identify as non-binary, and use “they/them/theirs” pronouns. They have also changed their name to be more reflective of their NB identity. The pronouns are readily identified on their resume AND they use them upon introducing themselves. “Hi, I’m Name. Yadda yadda yadda, and I go by they/them/theirs pronouns.”

    Where they find themselves challenged now is that they are in their first job search out of grad school, and are constantly misgendered, either in person on on the phone, in interviews. For example, the interviewer will be bringing them around to introduce them to others in the office, and the interviewer will say “This is Name. She is interviewing for Teapot Design”, when Name has already said “I got by they/them/theirs.” Or “this is Ms. LastName. She is interviewing today” – or some other variety of this.

    They are frustrated, discouraged, and at a bit of a loss. How can they balance wanting to assert their identity and pronouns, while knowing that they NEED a job and aren’t privileged enough to be all “Well, if they can’t use my pronouns at all, I just won’t work here” because, well, bills and loans and benefits and paycheck.

    Any advice? Anyone been through this?

    1. Lemon Zinger*

      Full disclosure– I am not non-binary myself.

      I think the student should become comfortable correcting people who misgender them and/or use inappropriate pronouns. A quick “I’m non-binary so please refer to me as they, or by my name” is going to be necessary.

      If that’s a problem in a workplace… well, your student doesn’t want to work in that place anyway. The interview would be a good place to figure out how an employer would handle this.

      1. Sloan Kittering*

        I’ve seen pronouns listed on resumes and email signatures – any chance this could help? Also, this is a new enough arena that they will honestly have the most luck in fields that are young, innovative and liberal – art, design, hair styling maybe? – and will be an ongoing struggle in more staid/conservative fields like law, real estate or similar (except maybe at specific firms?). Not at all to say they shouldn’t pursue law or their passions, but a firm that doesn’t let women wear peep toe heels is NOT going to be great about this.

        1. Temperance*

          Not to be all “well actually”, but many major law firms and legal nonprofits are LGBTQ positive. My firm has had interns and attorneys who are trans and NB and use they/them pronouns. Hilariously, though, peep toe heels would be considered gauche, but we don’t expect people to kowtow to gender norms.

          1. Sloan Kittering*

            Oooh, interesting. I don’t work in law, I’ve just always heard it referred to as a place where the dress code is still very conservative. It seems to me that there’s a correlation between a strict gender based dress code and strong gender norms generally.

    2. Sleepytime Tea*

      It’s tough because this kind of thing is “new” in the sense that it’s only relatively recently that it’s really become a topic of public consideration and things people really started even recognizing in the work place. I am cisgender, so I personally don’t have this experience, but as an example my best friend’s child is non-binary. They asked to go by specific pronouns and I really try. I do! I REALLY do. But it’s a very hard adjustment to make and takes time when your speaking patterns of 35 years (in my case) need to be adjusted. Your very first meeting with someone they are likely to slip up, especially when they are in a specific routine that they have gone through a million times and always used gender specific pronouns.

      I think that Lemon Zinger has it right here, that the best they can do is simply politely step in and say “oh actually, I’m non-binary, so please refer to me as they or just use my name” and smile and shake hands. My name has a frequently used nickname that I strongly dislike and so people will say, for example, “this is Steph, she’s interviewing today” and I’ll smile, shake hands and say “actually, I prefer Stephanie.” Obviously this is not the exact same issue, but if they were to say that they are non-binary and prefer a different pronoun in that tone, then it’s not going to come off as privileged or something like that.

      And if they do that, and the people at the interview act like jerks about it, then yes, this is not a place that they want to work, or they have to decide that they are willing to put up with it because bills and loans and benefits and paycheck. It’s a big enough issue that I can’t say what the right call is, because I don’t know their situation, and my abhorrence for the nickname people call me does not rise to this level of importance.

      1. Lily Rowan*

        It should totally be the same issue, though — I feel like most people agree that if you don’t like to be called Steph, people who call you Steph are rude! But not all of those people feel the same way about non-cis name/pronoun stuff.

        1. Sleepytime Tea*

          The topic of gender is more sensitive than nicknames. There’s no political debates taking place about it or human rights violations taking place because of it. While it may be rude for someone to call me by a familiar nickname even though I’ve expressed my preference that they don’t, it certainly doesn’t rise to the same level as gender identity. It’s not just rude to purposefully ignore a person’s choice of pronoun, it’s refusing to accept their gender identity

          But in this case it doesn’t sound like the problem is that people aren’t purposefully using the right pronoun, it’s more likely they are just not used to it and very quickly forgetting because it’s out of their normal.

    3. OtterB*

      Not NB myself, but sympathetic to those who are. I think that awareness of this is increasing but still not as widespread as people who are deeply engaged in the issue think it is. An awful lot of people will still go “non-binary, what the heck is that?” but be able to adapt with practice. I would suggest that, in the absence of other evidence of discriminatory intent, they try to assume ignorance or lack of practice in applying knowledge of preferred pronouns rather than malice to the misgendering. To get a better feel for what they’re getting into, they might want to ask the interviewer whether using nonbinary pronouns will be a problem within the office culture. Quite probably they shouldn’t have to do this, but realistically the future arrives unevenly and some industries/ organizations/ locations will be more aware than others.

    4. Temperance*

      I’m not NB, but my office has had a few NB folks work here. My advice would be to tell your former student to concentrate their job search on either large orgs or nonprofits, which tend to be more liberal/on the forefront of pronoun-sharing. They should also check into HRC top companies.

    5. HigherEd Person*

      Thank you everyone! They are looking in the helping profession (counseling-ish), so you’d think that this would be a field who understands. But I do get it – “non-binary” and “they/them/theirs” isn’t yet common nomenclature for everyone.
      I’m sharing your responses with them.

      1. Lilith*

        English needs a few new singular words. A singular form of her/him that is non-gendered. Same with s/he. They/them/their as singular is a bit, well, clunky, I guess.

        1. Natalie*

          There are already a number of new gender neutral pronouns (ze/zir, zie/hir). But it seems pretty clear to me that expanding the already common use of the singular “they” is a much easier task.

    6. Muffinlicious*

      My kid asked to be referred to by they/them less than a year ago. Although I have tried, it has been phenomenally difficult to go against 40+ years of daily training and twist my brain into pretzels in order to do it correctly. Although I try, I still get it wrong on a regular basis, especially when I’m talking about my kid in the past back when “they” were a “she”! I love my kid and I try for their sake, but I still make mistakes every day.

      My brain just didn’t have that folder structure set up — everything to do with humans was already assigned to either the male folder or the female folder. I didn’t have a third folder in my concept of the universe. It is like asking people to imagine a third direction beyond in or out.

      My point is that even with the best intentions, it’s probably not going to be possible for people who don’t have that “third folder” in their brain structure to get the pronoun right every time… so don’t

      1. Muffinlicious*

        Sorry, my phone posted that too soon! I was trying to convey “don’t assume that if anyone slips up, it’s a deliberate slight.” It could be they’re trying but messing it up.

  202. Goodbye Toby*

    I work in a professional office and we recently got a new receptionist because her old co-worker who came to work with us recommended her. She is supposed to work 8-4:30 so she can answer phones, greet people, and leave early to get her kid. Except she comes in at 9:30ish, every single day. She still leaves at 4:30 and takes an hour or so for lunch, plus is on Facebook or talking with her kid on the phone all the time. She also wears leggings and tennis shoes every day. Our office is business casual, but that is way out of line for us. The bosses are in and out a lot, but they’ve all seen these issues. Another co-worker and I are frustrated because we get yelled at for being a minute late or early, even though our jobs are not on set times. We also get sideways glances if our boss doesn’t like our clothes. I want to say something, partially because it’s ridiculous and part because it’s unfair. On the other hand, mgmt kind of knows what’s going on and haven’t done anything – but this is how they are even if something bothers them, they won’t directly address anything, and I don’t want to get in trouble for being a tattle. Should I speak up?

    1. Lemon Zinger*

      It doesn’t seem like this is actually affecting your ability to do your job, so I would stay out of it.

      1. WellRed*

        If there is any part of this that impacts your work in any way, bring it up. Do you have to greet customers thereby cannot do your work? Are you missing calls? I might also ask my manager if the dress code has been relaxed. That may or may not be considered passive aggressive ; )

    2. FancyNancy*

      I’d stick to any ways in which she is directly impacting your ability to do your job. The other stuff is frustrating, but is likely to come off poorly, since you aren’t getting similar leniency.

      1. Goodbye Toby*

        Somewhat. She is kind of my direct report (as in I can ask her to do assistant-y type things). I do answer phones and greet people, clean up or prepare meetings, etc. when she’s not there, not because it’s my job but because it needs done. I agree, it’s not a day to day directly affecting my work thing which is why I’m inclined to stay quiet unless directly asked, it’s more annoying and why did we hire this person (and pay her for FT work) if she isn’t doing it?

        1. Temperance*

          Stop answering the phone and doing her tasks, and then the rest of the management team will see that she’s not doing it.

          1. valentine*

            Yes, stop doing her work (and anyone else’s) and see what happens. If it’s your meetings that need setting up, ask if they’re going to hire someone for 8-9:30.

    4. Sleepytime Tea*

      Unfortunately this falls in the category of “not my circus, not my monkeys.” Management has decided for whatever reason to ignore this issue, or they’ve decided that for her position, it’s not an issue. You don’t work in the same position. Management may feel that since she’s sitting behind the desk they don’t care about her leggings and tennis shoes, or that she’s in a “lower level” position and doesn’t need to be held to the same dress standard. Or maybe they have an agreement with her about what she can wear because of god knows what reason. These are all things you simply don’t know.

      The only thing I would even consider bringing up is that she isn’t there at her appointed time to answer the phones/greet people/etc. if and ONLY if this is causing a disruption because someone else has to cover or something like that. Otherwise, it’s best to stay out of it and accept that Life Is Not Fair.

  203. Paranoid*

    I took the last year off from work because I was burnt out from dealing with multiple life-threatening illnesses in my family. I was one of them and fortunately we are all recovered. I am ready to go back to work now but am unsure what to do about not working the last year. Everyone is telling me that it’s harder to get a job if you are not working and I have read it on here as well. I did do volunteering and can put that on my resume but it makes it look like I was ready to retire and changed my mind, which is not the case. I can explain it in an interview but what I am wondering how much of an issue will it really be if I only show volunteering for last year on Linkedin and my resume. I am an older female tech in the SF area going for a Director-level position and unfortunately, there is quite a bit of age discrimination. I have had friends do employee referrals for me for jobs but I am not hearing anything back and am wondering if this is the issue. I could show nothing for last year up to present but I don’t think that looks good either. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

    1. irene adler*

      Address this head-on in the cover letter.
      You are not trying to hide the year. Just had to take a sabbatical to recover your health. And the health issue is resolved, so a potential employer should have no worries about that.

      A year off in tech would mean you’ve lost out on quite a bit of cutting edge industry knowledge -yes? Can you address this somehow? And show that you are ‘up’ on things? What about connecting and networking with the local chapter of the professional organization for your industry?

      Yeah, age discrimination is real, unfortunately. Dealing with that myself.

  204. Where were you in your mid/late twenties?*

    I think I’m having one of those quarter life crises. I am a 26 year old woman. A lot of my friends and colleagues are doing amazing things with their careers or starting businesses, and also a lot of them are not doing much with their careers but are focusing on building their personal lives. I think I’m fixated on the career folk. I feel like I’m having a tough time seeing myself as worthy or experienced at 26, does anyone else feel that way? I know imposter syndrome gets talked about a lot, but I just wanted to know how to…market (?) think of (?) myself in the working world. My life has looked like:
    2010-2014: undergrad
    2014-2016: grad school, work part time at same job, complete fellowship and internships/residency
    2016: gain important credential for career after sitting for exam and finishing “residency”
    2016-2018: work at first post-grad jobs
    2018-present: working at third post grad job but feeling like a complete infant compared to coworkers who went from undergrad to the working world

    I feel like this is still early career, so it’s ok to not exactly feel like the most confident woman, but…it sucks. I feel like I don’t feel as experienced because I didn’t hold a 9-5 working career for those years between undergrad and now. I do have experiences but I tend to brush mine off because…well, I didn’t always get paid for them or they were during graduate school so they weren’t full time. anyone else feel the same?

    1. Goodbye Toby*

      Yaaasss. I am same age, similar trajectory. I feel dumb and in over my head all the time (even when I’m told the opposite). Therapy has helped a lot, honestly. But also knowing your experiences are valid, even if they were unpaid or part-time. You learned something from them right? I also keep an “I don’t suck” folder with nice emails or comments. Regularly updating your resume even when not job searching to see all the things you know how to do and all the major experiences you’ve had, which can be easy to look past as they’re happening, is also validating.

      1. Where were you in your mid/late twenties?*

        Yas hello fellow trajectory person! I also am told the opposite but nothing will convince my dumb brain otherwise. I did learn something from it! I guess I just have to keep convincing myself that they’re valid experiences and go from there. I like the idea of the “I don’t suck” folder!! I’m going to start one of those right now. I’m currently in therapy but this hasn’t really come up yet but I hope to bring it up soon.

    2. Sloan Kittering*

      Speaking with a few more years under my belt, this will totally smooth over soon. I remember feeling the same way as a recent grad – but after a job or two under my belt I was comparable to anyone else whether they went straight through school or stopped after undergrad. Your career is sooo long, you’ll have several decades to be midlevel, it won’t matter if you start even five years behind.

      A quarter life crisis is totally a real and healthy thing, though. It’s good to check in with yourself, ask if you’re on the trajectory you want for yourself (not are you where you want to be / thought you’d be, mind you, but are you on the path that will lead you towards what you want?) and make changes if you realize you’re not there.

      1. Where were you in your mid/late twenties?*

        This is good to hear! I wish I could fast forward my life and see if I’m doing better in the future. I think because I have no super long term jobs that I feel like nothing I’ve done measures up to much, even though I know that’s not true. I think hat’s a good question though, seeing if I’m on the path that leads me towards what I want because it’s a little less more pressure than “Is everything as perfect as you’d imagine it to be at 26?”

        1. Sloan Kittering*

          Aww, just remember that a 16 year old feels the same way … but being 18 (or 20, or 25) isn’t really “better” and the best thing you can do is be open to what you’re experiencing now. Have you ever read “Ask Polly” over at NYMag? She has a great existential advice column that answers similar questions: https://www.thecut.com/2019/01/ask-polly-how-do-i-decide-what-to-do-with-my-life.html or https://www.thecut.com/2018/12/ask-polly-i-will-never-be-who-i-want-to-be.html

    3. Sleepytime Tea*

      Yes I sometimes feel I’m behind the curve. I had to take a break from undergrad and work for several years, so while my same-age friends were several years into their career I felt like I was just starting. When they were established I felt like I was still paying my dues. They finally reached stable points at work and started having a family and I’m just now reaching that spot and considering it.

      You took a different path, it doesn’t mean that it wasn’t as good as someone else’s. You have credentials they don’t, experience from your fellowship and internships that they don’t, and then the advanced education. I’m not saying either one is better. There’s a lot to be gained by work experience, but there’s a lot to be gained by education as well. Don’t consider one better than the other in a black and white way.

    4. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      As someone who started earlier than any of my friends because they all went to college while I went directly to work, I can tell you from my heart to be kind to yourself and stop comparing yourself to others with different career tracks! That is easier said than done but your accomplishments are not to be compared to those of others. We all have different lives and different paths to our greatness.

      I was running a business at your age but I was thrown into a situation where it just happened. I didn’t have a choice. Okay, I had a choice, I had a choice to run but I don’t flea most situations unless the people involved are vile. I had a boss I adored and coworkers who were…my misfit toys to say the least, we got along as well as we could for being a bunch of rascals. But then things took a sharp turn, my boss was too ill to run the place and I slid into it. It got me farther in life than I expected, needless to say. My tragedies spun into gold and my circumstances are not yours to compare to though! You are finding your way just fine and will have time to grow.

      I only finally started working with people my own age! That’s how young I was when I started out, everyone was 40+ and I was over there like a child feverishly learning about all the ins and outs of what makes a business tick. No we’re all 30 somethings and it felt so weird having reports my first time and they were only a few years younger than I am, looking up at me with these wide fresh eyes and in awe of my “knowledge”. It still shakes me TBH.

      You’re going to do great things. We all age a lot slower in this day and age. Twenty-five years ago, people our age were supposed to have 2 kids and a house by now. Now we’re not even reproducing enough to keep the population at the current numbers going forward [good, we’re over-populated, leave it up to our generation to go ahead and finally fix that issue…/side rant].

    5. LadeeDa*

      Come from someone almost 20 years older than you- I felt the SAME way at 26. I didn’t really hit my stride and focus with work until 32-35.
      When I look at your timeline- nothing unusual or lacking stands out to me (my job is talent development-so I look at people’s histories/path all the time!!)
      I was in that middle of the career phase for a long time. At the time it felt like I wasn’t as great or as successful as other people– but at 26, you still have FORTY YEARS of working!!
      When I look at my career- I finished grad school at 24, it wasn’t until about 32 that I really knew which path I wanted, and I didn’t start to take off until about 35, and I didn’t start to reach the levels I had defined as successful until 40.
      At 26 40 seems like a long way off, and it is… but that just means you have a lot of time to find the area within your chosen path that you are most passionate about. Also, try to remember that just because someone has a fancy title, doesn’t mean they have passion. I’ll take work I love over a fancy title any day.
      One last point– lateral moves are not bad. In fact, I love to see someone who has done varying types of work within their chosen career. Lateral moves, into different organizations, different business units, different teams gives you a broader view of your industry- and as you continue to move up (either in skill/level, or into leadership) that is invaluable and makes for a higher performer.
      Don’t be so hard on yourself!! :)

      1. NotIT*

        I mean frankly, would it matter if something stood out as unusual or “lacking”? It’s not like there’s one correct way to go through your 20s…

        1. NotIT*

          I don’t mean to be harsh! I just mean there’s nothing catastrophic regardless of how you spend your 20s, its just one period of life!

    6. Handwavy Things with Databases*

      I was in a fairly similar place, and I will say that in my experience, after a few weird years in the post-grad-school career trenches, I found my footing and some of the most abstract stuff I learned in grad school melded with my work experience and started to be a concrete advantage. Some of it didn’t, but hey, not every single thing in life has to be Of Benefit To Your Career. tl;dr–you are not the only one, and it’s very possible to be in your place at your age and continue to a solid, successful career.

    7. Weegie*

      Literally on my 25th birthday I was suffering from a bout of dysentery while working in an Asian country. The job was well-paid but temporary and it was sandwiched between a 10-month stint at a job I hated from day 1 and a year or so of temping. All my friends seemed to be getting married and/or settling down into responsible accountancy jobs, but that was ok – I just thought they were boring and I was a heck of a lot more interesting :-) It was another 10 years almost before I found what I should have been doing all along – I’m still doing it. You’ll get there in the end! Plus, you’ll be a heck of a lot of interesting than everyone else you know.

    8. Where were you in your mid/late twenties?*

      Thank you all for sharing your stories! They’ve really made me feel better about myself and my path (and a reminder to stop playing the comparison game.) Y’all are right, life is long and one day I’ll hopefully get my footing. It feels so far away and like the slowest process in the world, but I will keep trying.

    9. Elira*

      Mid to late twenties I was recovering from a serious health condition. I then worked some terrible retail jobs for a few years, and now in my early thirties I’m finally starting to move into more interesting positions.

      Everyone is different. Everyone’s ‘normal’ is different. My perspective is that life will just happen, in any order it chooses, and you just kind of have to roll with it. YMMV, but I hope this helps!

    10. NotIT*

      I think the mid to end of our 20s is the first time a lot of us have the chance to be “out of sync” with everyone else… particularly if you have the sorts of friends who went to college, then got jobs afterwards (obviously, some people go straight to work!). After graduating college is the first time some people start really forking off. But there’s so many ways to live life in your 20s… travel, work, school, kids… and there is no right way to do it.

      But one thing is true – no matter what you do, you will be behind someone else who did something differently! I spend a lot of my 20s traveling between jobs, and correspondingly am slightly behind career-wise. But friends of mine who have traveled less are jealous of how I spent my time. You can’t put 100% of your time into all the things at once. We all only get the time we get, and we have to be happy with what we did.

      Side-note, therapy is awesome for self-esteem and confidence, I totally recommend it! I think it’s less of a problem that you’re inexperienced, as lots of people consider grad school experience, as much as you just have a bit of imposter syndrome. Good luck!

  205. AnotherAlison*

    I get a lot of spam email from graduate programs. I opened one today that was for a data analytics MS from Prestigious State School. The cost per credit hour was about $1300. I’m just curious if anyone here is doing these kinds of programs. I have thought about it at various points in my career, but when I total up what it’s going to cost me, it doesn’t seem worth it. I looked at a local program that was a lot less per hour (~$500) a couple years ago, and the program advisor said the average starting salary was about half of what I was making. . .and about half of what the salary figures bounced around on the interwebs for this career are. I have an undergrad in engineering and an MBA, so I guess I feel like I’ve invested enough in formal education already when it comes down to committing to doing another degree, but I’m still curious if people are getting a good ROI on these things.

    1. MootWoot*

      ROI is, I think, very relative. Going back for another degree in a field you aren’t excited about might not be worthwhile; ROI does not necessarily = higher salary but I’d want there to be a good reason for going back for another degree: dissatisfaction/unhappiness with current career; shifting to another career; updating a skill set (e.g.: husband’s undergrad minor was CS, completed more than 20 years ago; only within the past couple years started doing IT/programming, realized there were gaps in his knowledge, started taking classes with the POSSIBLE intention of getting a second bachelor’s; theoretical new career wouldn’t be significantly more or less than what he’s earning now; job safety that he doesn’t quite have at the moment; etc.).

      OTOH, I’ve also known folks who got a second degree (either bachelor’s or master’s) in education, earning significantly less than what they’d been previously earned, but they were unhappy in their previous career, wanted something different, etc.

      1. AnotherAlison*

        I think my situation is probably closest to your husband’s. My technical skills will no longer apply soon. I’m not super interested in becoming a mechanical engineer in a new field, so if I had to pick something that would give me job security, what would I do? That’s what I’m wrestling with–how to keep a marketable skill set in something I like, whether I need more education to do it, and what education is the right education.

    2. Sloan Kittering*

      Totally field dependent, IMO. I’ve had friends go back to school that I thought were making a huge mistake because they were already *in* the kind of jobs that the degrees were supposed to help you *get.* In my own personal experience, my advanced degree helped me beat out other applicants for a job, but they didn’t get me more salary over what they would have offered somebody else. So if you’re deeply in debt, that probably didn’t pay off for you, it’s kind of a wash. There ARE some fields where you really can’t advance beyond a certain level without a degree, but it’s not universal (and typically you want to be in the specific program recognized in your field for those, not some random one that crosses your desk in spam). A mentor can help you sort out what applies to your field.

      1. AnotherAlison*

        I think you make a fair point that if you’re entering a competitive field the degree is going to help you in comparison to other applicants. I think if you truly want to make a hard run at a specific career, perhaps the cost is not an issue. I guess most others are in a different professional position than me, so there are probably many, many circumstances that it does make sense. I’m not particularly unhappy or doing something that’s a bad fit. My thought is that if I had to get reskilled in something, that’s what I would do, but I’m already doing things that use those types of brain circuits and wouldn’t make a change if I could stay gainfully employed otherwise.

        1. Sloan Kittering*

          I do think if you’re switching fields entirely, a grad program can be a great “reset” and hopefully you’d get some networking / job placement assistance from the program.

    3. AnotherAlison*

      Thanks for the responses. . .for some more color, I’m 40. The specific industry I’ve worked in for almost 20 years has shifted a lot. I don’t see any issues with my job for the next 5 years because of how my company is positioned in the market and our current backlog, but competitors have downsized, suppliers have shrunk, etc.

      I’m moving to a new role that is a good fit that will give me skills to work across industries (my company is in more than one, I’m just personally not). My role will be more managerial and analytical and less technology dependent. Right now, my big personal selling point is experience in project development of Specific Megaproject, then project management. The Specific Megaproject market is going off a cliff soon.

      My natural strength is analytics and I’ve had other roles as an analyst in the past, but it’s difficult to figure out how to play out the rest of my career. My kids are actually near-grown, and my house will be paid off in the next 5 years, so there’s no crisis, but I want to do something that is professionally challenging and and not be a marginalized middle-aged woman 10 years from now.

    4. NotIT*

      I’ve gotten a lot of spam email from Data Analytics/Data Science programs… frankly, it’s currently a buzzword, and MS programs make schools money. That doesn’t mean it won’t be helpful, but it doesn’t really exist to help students get jobs as much as make the school money… so getting a job isn’t guaranteed.

      Not to mention, a lot of these tech careers are based in places I don’t feel like living, and the high salaries they cite are for places like San Francisco (and I live where it is WAY WAY cheaper, so I’d keep that into account too.

  206. 653-CXK*

    Update on the post from last week’s open thread (https://www.askamanager.org/2019/02/open-thread-february-1-2-2019.html#comment-2331169)…

    I had the interview on Tuesday and it went very well. The interviewers were friendly, in-depth, and impressed with what I did. (Where it was also warm and sunny helped my disposition also ;-) ) The next day, one of the hiring managers asked me for references, and I sent them along to my list. I took Alison’s advice and held back on sending an immediate thank you note – I think that was why in the past, when I send a thank you note about an hour after I was interviewed, I was rejected from further consideration.

    One aspect of the job will involve troubleshooting in another part of the company south of Boston – it will only be two to three times per month, but as I have no car and no license, I would have to take a bus that goes back and forth, and; I can also take Uber or Lyft to get there or hitch a ride.

    I don’t know who else they’re interviewing, but I should hear in a short time. I’ll keep you all posted.

  207. Michelle*

    Just heard from the next row of cubes: “She will stab you”. I don’t know what someone did/was attempting to do, but it sounds serious.

      1. Luisa*

        SAME. Luckily the situation resolved itself (after way too many emails, an outstanding deliverable was delivered at the eleventh hour), but I was ready to let heads roll.

    2. Sleepytime Tea*

      “They can die in a fire” may or may not have been heard uttered from my cubicle on occasion at TerribleJob…

  208. Introvert girl*

    Job searching can be really frustrating sometimes. So I saw this posting from a well known Teapot company looking for many People with Teapot designing skills. I wanted to mail them and ask what kind of job offers they had but there is no way to contact the company, only through a specific form on their website. So I tried twice and gave up. Firstly I couldn’t pass to the second part because they needed a mandatory stationary phone and a mandatory cell phone number. I don’t have a stationary phone! You could surpass it by filling in your cell phone number twice. Ok, done that. Then they needed my grades from college which their system wouldn’t recognize as my college was in another EU country and has a different grading system. The funny thing is that the country in question is quite known for her Teapot designing skills. Pffff Why do caompanies have such rigid hiring methods?

    1. MootWoot*

      I worked (briefly) as a teaching assistant. The minimum qualifications for that job included a high school diploma, which I didn’t have because had been out of high school for about 15 years at that point, had two college degrees and almost a third. I kept being asked for a copy of my high school diploma, kept offering a copy of a college diploma, and the line of questioning only stopped when I pointed out that if I had a college diploma, I had probably graduated from high school. When things go off script, people don’t know how to respond.

      (I wound up being paid 75 cents more an hour – $8/hr. – because I had an associate’s degree, a bachelor’s degree, and most of a graduate degree completed.)

  209. D.W.*

    Since my pregnancy is now past the point of concealment, one of my coworkers has taken to greeting me with, “Hi, mom! How are you feeling?” every time she sees me.

    Suggestions on verbiage to get her to stop?

    2. Colette*

      Ignore her – she obviously isn’t talking to you, since you’re not her mom.

      Alternatively, “I’m not your mom. Please call me D.W.” might get the job done.

    3. Crystalline*

      “One kid is enough, thanks.”

      Look behind you, then, “Oh, I thought your mother had come to visit.”

      Side note: I had a co-worker constantly wanting to ‘mother’ me (and the rest of the team). She finally made a comment like “Oh, I just like to mother you” and I said ‘Yes, I’ve noticed, but I already have one of those.’ She pouted and gave me the silent treatment for a while, but it worked, at least!

    4. Electric sheep*

      “Hi (name), I’m good thanks! Btw, I’d really like it if you would call me by (name), rather than ‘mom’.” Like, present it as being matter of fact and no big deal to ask, but be clear.

    5. Maya Elena*

      If it is someone you actually work with on a daily basis and have a relationship, you can do some kind of polite request to stop.

      If it’s just a person working in the next cube farm over across the hall, then a polite and positive response is all that is warranted. ESPECIALLY if you are in any way more privileged in the company than that person – e.g. they’re from customer service or admins, and you’re an analyst or manager.

      1. Electric Sheep*

        I really disagree with this! Being polite, yes, but it’s not an imposition to ask people not to refe r to you in a way that you don’t like! It’s a reasonable request, not one that someone would only comply with for hierarchical reasons.

        1. valentine*

          You’re not obliged to be positive to someone who’s being gross.
          “Don’t call me that” is fine for any perpetrator.

  210. Rainy days*

    I just want to have a short rant: coworkers who won’t download Microsoft Office products “on principle”, use Google docs, and delegate to others task that Google docs isn’t capable of are really, really annoying.

      1. Dr. Anonymous*

        Clearly the principle is that they deserve to have servants to do their Microsoft-related tasks.

  211. AnnoyedAF*

    Can someone please reassure me that everything will be OK as I haven’t heard back on a job in three weeks since my last interview? The process has been admittedly slow (first correspondence occurred mid-November) and the holiday’s messed things up but I’m getting really annoyed and just want someone to talk me off the ledge a little lol

    1. The Doctor is In*

      Seems this happens a lot. Hope you hear good news soon! And if not, hope something even better turns up.

  212. leaky teapots*

    My manager let me know she felt disrespected by an email I sent to her last week and I feel incredibly guilty about it. The email genuinely wasn’t about her or her leadership. My manager doesn’t really work in my area- think Tea Pot Director while I’m a Spout Enthusiast, I meet regularly with other Spout Enthusiasts from different Tea Pots). I did not think she was involved with the issue at hand (i.e. the same Spout Enthusiasts are awarded all the opportunities). As she does is not involved with Spouts, I honestly did not believe she had anything to do with the selection. Furthermore, the only reason I even mentioned it to her was because another Spout Enthusiast felt similarly, sent and email to her manager, and their Tea Pot Director was looking into it.
    I’m at a loss as to what to do because like… I know I need to apologize (never my intention to disrespect her), but I’m struggling how to frame it. Any ideas?

    1. Reba*

      It sounds like you need to explain yourself? I don’t really follow the plot as you described it here, but it sounds like maybe you said something that was critical of her decision, without realizing it was her decision. To me it doesn’t sound like you did anything that egregious and honestly, the “disrespect” language sounds kind of, overly emotional or rigid? Idk. So something along the lines of, “I’m sorry about that, I didn’t realize [situation]. We had discussed [situation] among the Spout folks, so that’s where that was coming from.”

      1. valentine*

        Don’t apologize. She’s derailing your legitimate concern with, and moving the goalposts to, her feelings. She wants you to feel bad so you’ll drop it. Ignore the disrespect BS, but if she said anything about looking into the issue, follow up or say, “It was just FYI, but now I know you’re involved in spout opportunity distribution, can we discuss how to direct more my way?”

  213. Milksnake*

    My job title doesn’t match my responsibilities, what should I do?!

    I was originally hired on at a small office as an Administrative Assistant but after some college-level courses and working 1-on-1 with the bookkeeper here I started taking over bookkeeping clients. I currently manage multiple accounts on my own. I was given a raise to bring me closer to “industry standard” but I was well below the industry standard for an Admin Assistant, so I still don’t believe I’m at industry standard for the work that I do, and my title has never changed, so I don’t know how to reflect my actual job on my resume.

    There’s other matters complicating things that make me feel like maybe I should stick it out a little longer and hope things get better here (the bookkeeper going to start semi-retirement/part-time in two months.) I really want to take on those accounts, but I can’t do that and my current Admin Assistance work (which is already falling behind as it is) and they’ve mentioned bringing someone in to help me for a week during the busy season, but no one has actually addressed how we’re going to handle the bookkeeper cutting back on hours, or who’s going to pick up the extra work. So I feel like maybe I should just start job hunting instead…. I don’t know how to navigate this situation because I feel like I don’t have all the information and it’s stressing me out!

    2. Dr. Anonymous*

      What it you look to see what’s out there? No need to stay if you find something really nice, and if you don’t, the decision to stay is made for you. You can treat the decision to look and the decision to leave as two separate things.

  214. SKJ*

    I may be too late for this week’s open thread but I’ll try anyway…

    A coworker and I had a tense conversation where he let me know that he hates working with me for a litany of reasons, one of which was that I am “moody.” I replied that I have depression, and he spit back “yeah and I have to deal with it.”

    This indicates to me that this person doesn’t have any understanding of nor sympathy for people with this disease. My HR department is aware of my struggles and have offered reasonable accommodations. My question is, is it a “reasonable accommodation” to ask that I never have to work with this guy? We are peers without much overlap, but occasionally our manager will ask us to collaborate. The thought of working with him causes me some serious negative feelings.

    1. fposte*

      Unfortunately, it’s not likely to be a reasonable accommodation that you never work with any particular individual. You can ask your manager, if there’s flexibility, to assign you to work with somebody else instead; it sounds like there’s some interpersonal friction that might make that a good idea in general.

    2. Zona the Great*

      My first thought was, “I wonder if this guy has someone in his personal life has significant depression”. While it’s not okay to be mean and rude to anyone at work, I also don’t really agree that what you have describes shows lack of sympathy or understanding on his part. Rather, he could just be all full-up on helping navigate other people’s feelings.

      My father is the person in my life with pretty severe depression. It has gotten to the point where, when he says he’s depressed, my first thought is, “yeah and I’m suffering by default”. And then when a colleague expresses similar emotions as my father, I’m running in the opposite direction.

      So I would just reflect on if you put your feelings on other people too much. Just knowing someone at work is depressed is different from working with someone who cries, yells, panics, etc. If it’s the latter, I would bet he feels the same way you do about working together.

      1. Rusty Shackelford*

        Yeah, this is a real thing. Having depression sucks. Having to deal with the person who has depression also sucks. If you’re dealing with someone else’s depression in your personal life AND at work, it might just be too much.

        And if that’s not it, it might be that you’re just expecting too much from him anyway. Reasonable accommodations means you can’t be fired for needing time off to deal with your illness. It means they have to figure out ways to let you do your job. It doesn’t mean everyone has to be nice to you. It doesn’t mean everyone has to respect your feelings. It doesn’t mean everyone has to accept whatever level of depression you’re expressing that day and have absolutely no feelings of their own about it. That’s all just too much to ask.

    3. Anon Anon Anon*

      He lashed out at you and insulted you for having depression. So if you choose to do something about that, he should be held responsible and have to face the consequences. What he did was mean and unprofessional, and it probably also counts as harassing someone for having a disability. Yes, working with someone who is depressed can present challenges for some people, but that is absolutely not the right way to handle it. At this point, you could either tell HR or your boss about the conversation and let them decide how to proceed, or just document it and be ready to do something about it if anything else happens.

    4. Parenthetically*

      I dunno, this may get me jumped on, but I think if you have a decent relationship with your manager (and she knows about your depression and accommodations), you may be able to explain that Fergus has made it very clear that he resents and looks down on you, and hates working with you, and that his inability to control those feelings has made doing projects together extremely unproductive.

      I think if you can frame it as “this dude hates my guts and thus is not going to work well with me; for the sake of the productivity of the office let’s maybe not?” you might be able to get somewhere. But you’d really have to be able to keep your personal feelings completely out of it, and focus on the impact to the projects. There’s the possibility Fergus could get thumped for it, and hate you even more, but that doesn’t seem like much of a loss, honestly.

      And I wish you the best of luck in managing all this. As a person who has dealt with depression and who is married to someone who currently deals with depression, I have a lot of sympathy.

      1. fposte*

        I think you can, in some circumstances, ask to be teamed with somebody else; it’s not likely to be something that could be considered a reasonable accommodation, though.

        I think a lot of this will depend on what else went on in this exchange, and what was meant by “moody.” I agree with Zona and Rusty that the understanding of co-workers isn’t something to hold out for; most of us don’t really understand what our co-workers struggle with, and honestly we’re probably a little dicey on that even with friends and family. I think essentially listing “10 Reasons I Hate Working with You” to somebody’s face is a pretty questionable move, but if you think those frustrations might be legitimate, that’s something to consider working on, perhaps with the help of your manager.

        1. Parenthetically*

          Yeah, not framed as an accommodation for depression, for sure, but as a benefit to the project/to preempt this unproductive dynamic.

          I think it’s also worth exploring in therapy, SKJ — making it a goal to work with your therapist toward being less emotionally involved at work or something similar? Not as a concession to your dickbag coworker, because holy crap that’s an uncool way to go about addressing even the most legitimate concern, but just as a way to thrive at something that constitutes a pretty major chunk of your waking hours.

    5. AnonAcademic*

      Can you give an example of the moody behavior in question? Is it possibly affecting your work in other ways or just your relationship with this one coworker? To be honest it’s a lot to expect a coworker to understand how mental illness might impact behaviors like being “moody,” which I take to mean unpredictably irritable. If the behavior is unprofessional and hindering work, that’s an issue regardless of whether it’s due to mental illness or just having a bad day. If it’s more like, some days you are less smiley and jokey than others, then yeah this coworker should be more understanding. But without more information it’s very hard to tell, and escalating to asking to not work with him ever is a big step that I wouldn’t take lightly.

  215. Stop Touching Me!*

    I commented last week that my coworker was very touch-y and called me things like her “good girl”. I wanted to report that while I haven’t gotten the chance/courage to address the touching thing, I did ask her today to please stop calling me things like “honey” and other cutesy names. She pouted and asked why, and I explained that while I know she doesn’t mean harm, I’m trying to be taken as a professional adult. She replied “I know, I’m just a mom”, I said “I know, but you’re not MY mom,” and she apologized and promised to stop. Then we changed topics to the thing I actually came to ask her about, and it was all good! Thank you to all who gave me the push that I needed to say something about it. Here’s hoping it sticks!

      1. valentine*

        You can use the name thing to pivot to the womanhandling.

        Her: *accosts you*
        You: *shrugs off her trespassing hand* Just like you stopped calling me pet names, you need to stop touching me. (Or “The touching needs to stop.”)
        Her: *pouts* But why? I’m a mom. (WTH? Does she burp colleagues, or hold their hands as they cross the street?)
        You: Nevertheless, you need to stop touching me.

  216. Anonymous Community Teapot Director*

    at what point do you go over your bosses head?

    My boss is incredibly unresponsive. We’re supposed to have 1:1 meetings 2xmonth. They are frequently cancelled at the last minute. My last one was 2 months ago, and the next isn’t scheduled until the end of the month. I’ve emailed. I’ve called and left messages. I’ve sent things I’d like to have a conversation about in email requesting a yes/no answer. I’ve tried to stop into her office without an appointment (hard because we work in different locations).
    I’ve started a communication log and looking at the documentation, I realized the only time I get a response is when I’m sharing good news (my team exceeded goals, we won an award, etc.) It’s gotten to the point where I’m planning to quit without another job lined up. I want to give a longish notice and work on a transition plan. I’m the only one in my org who does this kind of work – which is highly visible externally. I know this falls under your boss sucks and isn’t going to change – but do I even attempt to go to grandboss (C-level)?

    1. WellRed*

      What is the purpose of the 1:1s? Does not having them impact your ability to do your job? Is your boss unresponsive in other ways?

      1. valentine*

        Last-ditch efforts: Asking who to go to when she’s unavailable and “Unless you say otherwise by x:00, I’m going to qrs.” (As you don’t mention going to her office, I assume you don’t share space or she’s out most of the time.)

        This doesn’t seem worthy of burning the bridge, especially if you’re isolated. Her manager should know what’s going on, so this is also on them. Get a new job, sure, but don’t give a long notice or otherwise go overboard for them.

    2. Reba*

      I think it’s worth escalating it before you quit over it! If there are concrete impacts you can point to as areas of concern, take that up the line. Good luck.

  217. OneoftheDevs*

    So my department is going to be reviewing/clarifying job descriptions, and I was chosen as the “subject matter expert” for my particular position. There are 2 other people in my position. My position is a data warehouse developer, but I don’t actually do any real data warehouse development…the other 2 guys do, but because we are woefully understaffed and over-loaded, I do a ton of other random stuff that sort of fits in – like managing the infrastructure/servers, security, web apps development, etc – it’s all for the data warehouses we own, but it’s not like the programming work the other devs do. Right now my job is only about 15-20% data warehouse development, whereas the other 2 people are like 80-90%.

    So my question is…..what on earth do I say during my interview about my job? I guess I can only really be honest about it. I just don’t feel like an accurate representation…and my worry is that upper mgmt will then ask why I’m in this position at all, and I’ll get reclassified, which might come with a salary change. I definitely do NOT want my salary to be lower. I guess they could make it higher, and that would be fine (ha ha!), but I’m afraid they are going to think, “Well, she’s not really doing higher-level development work, so she doesn’t need the higher pay.” However I did receive a hefty raise last fall as part of a “industry standards” review (they wanted to make sure people were being compensated according to market rates), so maybe they already know all this about me? Am I worrying about nothing?

    1. HR from way back*

      You’re most likely worrying about nothing, but you should ask about the policies related to job assessments–your HR team should be able to explain. Be honest about your duties. In my experience, your job will be graded in a way that includes EVERYTHING you do, even if that means combining comparable industry jobs and pro-rating the pay range. I’m not sure this applies, but it may ease your mind–in my current company, even if a job is downgraded based on new information, we keep the employee at the same pay rate–the downgraded pay rate would only apply to new hires. I hope that makes sense!

      1. OneoftheDevs*

        Thank you! I think if they did downgrade the pay they probably would only do it for new hires, but I’m just a paranoid/imposter syndrome person at heart so that’s where my mind goes.

    2. LCL*

      I believe based on your post that you were chosen as the SME precisely because you are doing many tasks. This is a good thing. Basically you tell them what you wrote in your first paragraph. Emphasize how this fits in with your department’s mission, and how the data warehouses couldn’t function without someone doing this work, and you are doing it because you have the background. It is legitimate for higher management to ask why questions about your function-why are you doing this work. You should counter with how answers-I’m doing this work because mgmt. needed someone with warehouse knowledge to do it. Don’t throw shade at how the company is organized, but do talk about how much of this work is needed for your group to function.

      1. OneoftheDevs*

        Thank you! I’m also trying not to let my emotions get mixed up into this…part of the reason why I’m doing all the non-development work is – I think – because I’m not a very good developer. I’m rather insecure about that and just myself in general, so I’m kind of scared they’re going to be like, oh hey, you’re not actually necessary after all.

  218. Jeremy Tassoff*

    I was doing a search through my email, and came across the following message string from a few years ago. It made me laugh, so I thought I’d share.

    Me to Office Manager: I’ve changed my opinion about our new temp.
    OM: That’s a surprise. You were pretty dissatisfied at the 4-week mark.
    Me: Yeah, I’ve downgraded him from ‘inefficient worker’ to ‘poor use of carbon’.
    OM: Ah. I guess I’ll reach out to the agency and ask them for new candidates…

    1. RandomusernamebecauseIwasboredwiththelastone*

      Sounds like incomptemp from the other poster used to work for you.

  219. AudreyParker*

    (reposting my mis-posted comment on it’s own!)
    Thanks to everyone who replied to my post last week about temping & temp-to-perm positions. I have been trying really hard to internalize the “you don’t owe them anything” philosophy, although of course I have not gotten another call from them this week.

    I did however get a lead that puts me in a similar situation: the opportunity is actually interesting, however the initial pay is not just below what I was looking for but below my previous salary (which was below the salary before THAT…). I had been resolved to not keep going backwards in my career, but after being unemployed for an extended period of time I feel like I have once again entered beggars can’t be choosers territory and need to pursue it anyway. It makes me physically ill to do this, both because I know I can’t commit to this long term if I get it and will need to continue looking for something paying a livable wage and then feel incredibly guilty if I leave soon, and because all the job search advice I read assumes that you are going to be continually increasing your salary (often by significant amounts) and finding jobs that advance your skills so I feel like an even bigger loser for continuing to go backwards.

    I know I’m supposed to focus on “taking care of me” and being mercenary, and any job is better than no job if you need income, it is just incredibly difficult for me to be ok with this. Any suggestions on how not to feel like a horrible person all the time when you are in this situation are welcomed!

    1. LoneWanderer*

      I try to remind myself that it’s business and not personal. They would let you go in a minute if it would benefit the business. It’s ok to feel comfortable about these things sometimes but you really need to keep repeating to yourself that focusing on “taking care of me” is your number one priority in the job search. It’s not immoral to take a position and leave if something better comes to you (especially if the first position isn’t paying competitive/fair wages). At the end of the day, it’s about a fair day’s wage for a fair day’s work and nothing more.

  220. Notquiteasbitter Librarian*

    I just started a class on “How to create a positive work environment” and am already finding it interesting and helpful.

    It is also very helpful that earlier this week, one of my colleagues was fired — and this was someone who was basically very difficult to work with, rubbed almost everyone in my building (and organization) the wrong way, and created an unpleasant work environment for many of us. While I can empathize that it was certainly upsetting for him and his family to be let go, many of us here have given a sigh of relief.

    So, just sharing something that has already made my work environment so much better. Happy Friday!!

  221. LoneWanderer*

    I need some reassurance that it’s ok to put my resignation in to my current job when the background check for my new job hasn’t completed. I don’t have anything in my past to be worried about and I’ve passed background checks before but I am feeling weirdly anxious about this. This is my first time resigning from a professional job and I am moving on to my dream job and the stakes just feel so high right now.

    I guess the bigger question is how do you handle the timing of transitioning to new positions? I accepted new employer’s offer yesterday and I am to start in two weeks which leaves me strictly two weeks to give notice to current employer. The timing feels really tight.

    1. ..Kat..*

      The correct start date is two weeks from completing the background check. I recommend letting the new company know that you will give your two weeks notice when you have a non-conditional job offer – i.e., your job offer is no longer contingent on a background check. It is ridiculous for them to expect otherwise.

    2. Jerry Vandesic*

      Do NOT resign until ALL contingencies with your new job offer are completed. Then put in your two weeks notice. Your new employer will need to wait until they complete your background check, plus two weeks. Go back to them and let them know this timeline.

  222. Data Fledgling*

    My coworker and I perform similar data-related tasks in our respective departments. She is more experienced at it and it’s explicitly part of her job whereas mine is part of my jack-of-all-trades job duties. On a recent project, an improvement task was set for both of our sets of data. She and I agreed to do our own data, using her method. Because of the nature of my data, I had to slowly check through things and was taking more time. However, she apparently didn’t like the speed of my work and decided to do part of my data without telling me until three weeks later since she thought she knew how that part of my data worked. It turns out that since she didn’t fully know the nature of my data problems, she did some of the task wrong, leaving me with considerably more work to do now. I am absolutely infuriated that a) she did this without asking me, b) told me weeks later and messed up some of the work I did in that interim because I had no idea that my data changed, and c) has not really apologized for either of these things. The even more complicating factor is that I was a candidate for her position and there’s a certain amount of tension about this, although neither of us acknowledge it openly. I also do like her on a personal level. How can I approach this issue diplomatically?

    1. VictorianCowgirl*

      What if you said something like “can we talk about our last project, and how you reviewed my data? It takes me a long time to do so because of X and Y, and since I didn’t know you were reviewing, I couldn’t give you a heads up about them. This made it so that the work you reviewed wasn’t complete in that manner and subsequent tasks were more difficult as I had incorrect data, which took time to fix. Will you come to me for this information prior to processing my data on the next project, so I can point these out to you?”

      I feel like that’s pretty good language, and not blaming or angry, but getting the point across.

      And since I’m a chicken, I’d probably send it in an email. Do you think she’d respond well to that?

      1. Data Fledgling*

        I don’t think an email would go over well–in the past when we spoke about projects, it was almost always in person. I like your script and I will use it! Thank you!

        1. Reba*

          I think it’s a great script but I’d actually make it a little stronger! Be calm of course but be more specific about how it made it harder for you (X hours of additional work, felt blindsided).

  223. VictorianCowgirl*

    Hi all, can I crowd-source some advice on how to handle my client? For all intents and purposes, this is my favorite and a perfect client, run by 2 married men similar in age to me (I am a woman). However, recently they have discovered that I am newly single, and the dynamic is changing. Only one is actually changing, by dropping very small sexual innuendos in the conversation then apologizing and laughing, e.g. while asking me to send multiple people a memo: “Do me first. Oh! haha, look what I said, that sounded sexual, I meant send it to me first, haha, we are laughing over here”.

    How do I SHUT THIS DOWN since this is a very very common and irritating problem in my life? Do I pretend I don’t get the joke? Do I very seriously say let’s not veer off course? Do I completely ignore and wait for the moment to pass? Do I get very direct and say let’s keep the inuendos out of our dealings (I have to admit that would be hard for me to say). What I did this time, which wasn’t great, was call them cowboys, and much laughing ensued by them.

    How would you all handle this? Every time a situation like this comes up it gets worse until I ned up firing the client. But otherwise this account is excellent in every way and this is very new behavior. I know I’m late to the party today so thanks to any answers!!
    Have a great Friday.

    1. LoneWanderer*

      I like your option of very seriously saying ‘let’s not veer off course’ and then change the subject back to the work at hand if you are dealing face to face. If it’s via email, it may be good to just ignore it entirely.

      1. VictorianCowgirl*

        This was over phone, so yes I could say something about staying on course! I just never know what to say in the moment so I’m planning ahead. Thanks!!

        1. Zona the Great*

          I think it was on AAM where Alison once suggested stopping and very pointedly saying, “I thought this was a business call” and waiting for a response. Do this in person too.

    2. JessicaTate*

      I also really like “let’s not veer off course.” I think it conveys a seriousness of purpose, without having to directly call out the sexual innuendo. I like adding a pinch of reproach in my tone, not full on “Mom telling you to behave, one warning before you’re really in trouble,” but in that vein. It conveys that this is utter nonsense, and I’m not having it, and I should only have to warn you once. But that might just be me. But be wary of it from now on and be ready with your response, whatever you decide to do.

      I don’t love just ignoring it, although that CAN work if they’re only doing it to get a rise out of you; but ignore it coldly with zero reaction. If you ignore it and are a little flustered, they got the reaction. But definitely don’t encourage in any way — fight the ingrained impulse to be “nice” and smile/laugh and not hurt feelings.

      And if it keeps up… I’d think about having a chat with the Offending Client to be like, “Hey, I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but you’ve started to throw a lot of sexual innuendo into our conversations. It’s kind of creepy and uncomfortable, so I’d like you to knock it off.” Wording and tone depend on your relationship, but it sounds like you’re fairly friendly. If you fear he’ll be a big baby about it, maybe chat with the other half of the duo, who’s not pulling this crap, and see if he can have an intervention with the Offender and get him to cool it.

      Good luck.

      1. VictorianCowgirl*

        You are right that we are friendly, it is a sort of forced friendliness on my part, and also right that the other part of the duo would be a great resource if this should continue. In all honesty I will have to practice the let’s not veer off course tone, it is very hard for me to even think about calling someone out and them being embarrassed, but that has brought me nothing but grief in this life and I strive to be more assertive, so I will role-play with a friend and be ready next time. So thank you for voting for that wording and for reminding me not to smile and nod. That way lies madness. And bees.

    3. Lilysparrow*

      Have you tried the Pointed Silence? Where you just let the non-funny pseudo-joke hang in the air until everyone gets slightly squirmy, and then briskly move onto the next topic with an “Okay, then,” or “Moving on…”

      It’s a similar dynamic to the “I thought this was a business meeting,” but a shade less confrontational because you aren’t saying it out loud. The key part is to not gloss it over, but really let the silence get heavy before you break it.

      Basically decent people will realize that they screwed up. And since you’re usually friendly, they will recognize and appreciate that you are deliberately moving past it.

      Whichever way you go, I hope this gets sorted! It’s a shame for good clients to go bad.

  224. mango tango*

    Can anyone give me tips on how to smoothly end 1-on-1 meetings?

    I always try to wrap up by summarizing what we went over, what actions I will take, and when they can expect to hear back from me. Then I try and say something like “Alright, have a great day. You’ll hear from me soon!” but the other person instead of saying something to end the conversation as well will start another conversation.
    It always ends with me feeling awkward and I feel like this nervous energy rubs off on the other person. Help!

    1. VictorianCowgirl*

      Geez you are so clearly wrapping it up that it’s bizarre that they’re doing that. What if you said, “I’m glad you brought that up, let’s add that to the agenda for our next talk, since unfortunately I am on a time constraint and have to go now, so I’ll talk to you soon, goodbye.”

    3. Rhymes with Mitochondria*

      Maybe try adding a “Do you have any last things for me?” right before you wrap it up.

  225. Anon Anon Anon*

    I’m happy to report that things are looking up for me. But today, it’s freezing cold and the space heaters aren’t cutting it so I’m hiding under a blanket and feeling like a useless blob. It’s ok to have one of those days every once in a while, right? I have been very productive. Just not today.

  226. May*

    I got an email from a recruiter asking me if I would be interested in a new position at 90k + 9%. What does that % stand for? Bonus?? 401k match? Just wondering if this is a standard way of stating comp, obviously I can clarify. I just didn’t want to seem totally naive.

    1. Anon Anon Anon*

      I would assume that means a 9% annual bonus. But I wouldn’t say anything accepting of the salary in my reply. I would say that the position sounds interesting and I would like to talk further if there is room to negotiate. Don’t sell yourself short! Always negotiate! (Unless this is a government job where salaries are not flexible, in which case, I would ask for the full list of compensation – salary and benefits – since they would probably have that on hand).

  227. Amy*

    A person in a separate department from mine (I’ll call Lisa) seems to be trying to get me fired. I have to work pretty closely with Lisa (collaborate), but we have different supervisors and different duties. On my first day working with Lisa, she was pretty rude to me, so I made the decision to interact as little as possible with her outside of what we need to do for work. That seemed to be working pretty well, but my manager then told me Lisa was complaining about me to them! I find this very weird because we don’t even interact that much. (What would she have to complain about??)

    Now, I was hired from the outside. But my manager was promoted from the position I now have. So…. My manager actually knows Lisa quite well and understands Lisa is hard to work with. My manager then told me not to worry about Lisa and that she is doing this as a power play–or to show who is dominant or whatever.

    So I don’t take things too seriously. But I notice that she still talks privately with my manager–when there is no need for her to since she has a different manager. You could say I’m being paranoid, but my manager made it obvious that she is complaining quite a bit about me. Other people I work with have not complained about me at all and my manager has let me know I’m doing well at my job. I don’t think my manager takes her complaints very seriously at all, but it’s getting very irritating how she is acting.

    Is there something I can actually do? I document problematic interactions she and I have. She is quite good about not putting things in writing and talking to people face to face.

    1. fposte*

      I think lots of people talk privately with lots of other people and it’s not necessarily about you. If it *is* about you, then your manager either has more concern about you than they’re letting on or is showing some worrying weakness on something they should have shut down ages ago (and why did they tell you about Lisa’s complaints in the first place?).

      I’d therefore let go of the focus on Lisa and work on making sure you and your manager are on the same page and that you’re meeting expectations there.

      1. Amy*

        Yeah, I know her telling me is a bit off, but she didn’t go into specifics to me. She seems to be annoyed more than anything about Lisa complaining.

    2. WellRed*

      If your boss says this again, maybe you should say just that, “That’s weird, we barely interact.”

    3. Anon Anon Anon*

      It sounds like your manager has your back. She’s being upfront with you about the situation. And it sounds like she’s giving you only positive feedback about your performance. So you don’t have to worry. However, if you are worried, you can always channel that energy into increasing your job security. How can you make yourself more valuable to the company? Or more valuable to employers in general? Can you take on any extra projects? Learn new skills? And definitely keep staying out of Lisa’s way! She sounds like trouble. She might be spending that time complaining about you, but she could be coming across as the one with the problem and the company might get tired of dealing with it.

    4. Kathenus*

      I mentioned this in a thread above, but I deal with something similar, but I have two ‘Lisa’s’. I also feel the nervousness when I wonder if they are complaining to my boss. My peace of mind came after a frank conversation with my boss about wanting to make sure he gave me constructive feedback when needed, basically that I needed to know that he would tell me if he had any concerns with my performance. Ideally your boss would shut it down if these comments didn’t have merit, because continuing to listen to them from Lisa is reinforcing the behavior, but since you can’t control your manager’s actions you can only work with her to have open communication to get rid of the paranoia. Good luck, it sucks, I know.

      1. Argh!*

        I have two Lisas, and one of them is actually named Lisa! At my one-on-one’s I never know when my boss will suddenly decide to tell me that the pretty girls who sit at the popular table say I’m ugly and my mother dresses me funny. I have started to ignore the Lisas, which is not good for teamwork, but neither is playing seventh-grade cafeteria drama games.

  228. Electric sheep*

    One of my coworkers has taken to calling meetings ‘a meet’, as in ‘I’m in a meet rn’. Nooooooooo.

    1. Approval is optional*

      ‘I can’t condone fox-hunting’, or, if you want to be less ‘British’, ‘ Which event are you competing in?’

      1. Electric sheep*

        Ha ha ha. ‘Oh, isthe ‘most annoying business jargon competition today?’ (Tbf, he’d be losing. There is much worse!)

    3. A Paralegal*

      OMG, my first thought is where’s the water since my daughter swims. I’m annoyed just thinking of that shorthand.

  229. Claire*

    Last November I quit my dayjob. It’s been seriously stressful, especially since most of my co-workers decided to treat me like a leper. Luckily, I do have a second career as a novelist. And even more luckily, one co-worker has agreed to provide me with a reference, once I start job hunting in May. But I’m still working through the emotional fallout from PreviousJob. I’m not exactly asking for advice–I understand in the abstract what’s going on with my former co-workers–but I’d like some…reassurance? That I’m not a terrible person? Virtual hugs? I dunno.

    2. name-of-the-day*

      If you can afford therapy, it’s well worth it. I worked through the feelings that caused me to need to leave my old job before applying for new jobs. I really needed to let go of it all in order to move on.

      1. Claire*

        I was in therapy for other reasons, but yes, I do need to find a new therapist. Thank you for the reminder. In the meantime, I’m writing scenes where I imagine co-workers undergoing terrible fates. Petty, but it helps.

    3. LNLN*

      Virtual hugs from me, as well. Hang in there. Distance from that situation will help. Take care of yourself!

      1. Claire*

        Thank you. And I think you’re right about distance. There was so much I loved about that job, but the environment did have…issues.

  230. Anon anony*

    I’m late, but hopefully someone is still reading. I was out sick and had no more PTO, so I had to come back. I’m not contagious and am on antibiotics, but I still have a deep cough. My coworkers asked how I was doing, but after two days of coughing I think that their patience level has gone. One made a comment like, “Wow, that sounds bad. Are you okay?” as she was making snarky faces with her friend. (These two are known mean girls.)

    I feel bad- I’m popping cough drops and cough medicine, but what else can I do? I try and leave the area when a coughing attack starts. Is there something else that I should be doing? I feel bad, but can’t help it.

    1. Friday afternoon fevers*

      1) for the future, you could see if there’s the potential for unpaid sick time if you’re so sick you can’t come in
      2) for the present and your mean girl’s comments: f ’em. “Thanks, I’m fine, just a residual cough.” If anyone specifically brings up whether you’re contagious, or similar concerns, you can say you’re on antibiotics and not contagious. But from your description it sounds like your coworker is a jerk and you’re not obligated to cater to jerks.

      1. Friday afternoon fevers*

        Also there are some amazing cough drops that have honey in the center — and when I’m reallllllly struggling and have coughed myself awake and can’t stop coughing, sometimes I’ll just take a spoonful of straight honey — but those are for you and not your jerk coworkers.

    2. A Paralegal*

      I feel you so much. I had a cough for 3 straight months and it’s beginning to come back. It’s a sinus thing for me, not an infection, so like you I’m not contagious, just coughy. I tried several things until I found something that helped the coughing but that took several weeks. But mine’s in the sinuses, not the chest, so there is less you can do about that.

      I think what you are doing is fine. Leave to the bathroom or whatever if the cough is crazy, otherwise cover it up as best you can to keep the sound down and ignore the mean girls . As I’m sure you’ve found, if it’s not a cough it something else. Take care, I hope you get over it soon.

      1. Anon anony*

        Can I ask what helped you? My Dr. said that my sinuses are out of sorts and to also use sinus rinse and nasal spray.

    3. name-of-the-day*

      I don’t usually get to the open thread until late in the day, and I scan from the bottom upwards, so no apology needed!

      I am prone to asthmatic bronchitis, which flares up after a cold and really has nothing to do with germs (I take steroids for it). It can linger for three weeks before I give up hope of shaking it on my own and go to the doctor. There are also some bugs that seem to linger.

      Can you find a temporary desk or work from home? Otherwise, you could just explain it’s a lingering thing and not to worry. The upside to this is that if you’re wrong, they’ll wind up sick at home and you won’t have to worry about their snide remarks!

  231. Kit-Kat*

    The other day I had a nightmare that all my childhood bullies applied to my job with some ulterior motive to harass me. Yikes! Once I woke up though I started wondering what if that really happened. I generally feel that middle/high school is tough and people change and grow up, so I would not want to assume they’re going to act the same way as they did 10+ years ago. I might bow out of, say, interviewing them if I REALLY thought I couldn’t be objective. But is there a point where it might be worth mentioning? I’m thinking of something involving a protected class, like this person seriously bullied you for being LGBTQ and now they’re applying to work at a nonprofit that focuses on LGBTQ services. I’m still not sure if this isn’t a recent event because again, people do grow and change. Anyone else have any thoughts on this hypothetical?

    1. Forking Great Username*

      There was actually a post about something like this! It did not end well for the former bully (who ended up doing some bullying-type behaviors in the aftermath too…not a good update. The letter writer was the bully. I’ll search for it and post the link below, but it’ll probably take a bit for it to get out of moderation.

    2. Lilysparrow*

      Specifically to your example: a guy I knew in high school who was so extremely, loudly homophobic that it made a bunch of ultra conservative, prep-school Republican teenagers cringe…is now married to a man.

      People don’t just grow and change from high school. Sometimes, they act badly as teens because they are struggling with major stuff in their own lives.

      Obviously bullying situations differ, and I think violence, sex crimes, or hate crimes should certainly be brought up for discussion.

      I don’t think things like taunting, social exclusion, or garden-variety assholery disqualify someone from being a decent adult.

      But of course, if you have input on a hiring decision, a comment like, “I knew her in school. She wasn’t easy to get along with, but hopefully she’s changed,” could give the interviewer useful information to watch out for. Or a basis to ask you follow up questions if they see some yellow flags in the interview.

  232. Grand Mouse*

    Hello! I hope I don’t seem too greedy but I was considering asking for a raise at my job since I’ve been here over a year now and gotten lots of praise. The thing is, I am very well paid for my position. I earn more than some of white collar professionals with a degree, and I am a custodian. The tradeoff is that I can only work part time because of my disabilities. So in favor of asking for a raise- well, my expenses have increased this year so it would be nice to have some breathing room. But a business reason is that I’ve doubled my productivity since I started and I am constantly taking on and juggling new tasks.

    My biggest fear is that I’ll just look greedy and ungrateful for my current pay. Also, I have no idea the culture or process around asking for raises here. It’s another situation where my company contracts us out to job sites, and I work alone.

    Another wrinkle is that it’s a non-profit and part of their business contracts out to the government (where I am). So I have no ideas how raises work both in non-profits and in the government. Thanks!

    1. WellRed*

      I can’t help with the culture of asking for a raise where you work but it’s not greedy or ungrateful to want a raise! Mention the accomplishments ( doubled productivity, taking on new tasks, etc). Maybe write it out first and practice asking.

  233. LQ*

    I love it when my favorite developer swears. She doesn’t do it often and she always looks a bit like ooo I shouldn’t have said that. (It’s always in my office when my door is closed.) But some things are swear worthy. A lot of things are around here! Also I love working with her, it’s so nice to have someone else who is excited about what we can get done.

    It’s been a long really crummy week so when she stopped by at the end of the day to ask a few questions and it included swearing it definitely made the week better and sometimes you have to celebrate the little things.

  234. Pinky Pie*

    I took a contractor position for it’s flexibility and professional challenge. However, my husband has been informed that his company will charge him 1000 a month for spousal health insurance. How do I explain that I’m looking for a new job less than a year after taking one?

    2. dawbs*

      I honestly think “I need insurance”i’s a widely accepted and reasonable answer in our world.

    3. LadyByTheLake*

      Before you quit your job, look on the exchanges. You should be able to get insurance for yourself for less than that. I’m a contractor and insurance is a real challenge, but $1000 is truly outrageous.

  235. That Girl From Quinn's House*

    Go over this with an HR rep and have them in the room when you have the conversation, because having such a delicate conversation with a narcissistic and entitled person who is easily offended is not going to go well.

  236. Pinky Pie*

    I’d turn it over to HR so they can approach it in a discrete manner. A conversation from a person who can’t use their boss’s pronouns correctly isn’t going to go well.

  237. Rhymes with Mitochondria*

    No need for quotation marks. Maybe the same attitude that led you to use quotation marks is what’s got her hackles up and makes her “sensitive”
    She’s changed her name and her pronouns, that IS transitioning.

    1. Argh!*

      No, they have been sensitive for years and easily offended since long before changing. (And they do not want to be called “her” and prefer to be called “they” which is why I put “trans” in quotation marks, since I’m not referring to it generically as a catchall term)

      1. Rhymes with Mitochondria*

        The quotes are still offensive and clearly you do not respect them and their identity. (New name, new pronouns, new boobs and STILL you think it’s not transitioned?!?!? Anything else is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS and you need to respect that they are trans. Just trans, no quotes) Seriously, do some hard self reflection about your own contributions to the difficult relationship. Just from what you’ve displayed here, I’d bet money you have contributed to the problems.

        1. name-of-the-day*

          You can’t read that much into a blog post. I need advice about clothing, not shaming for my punctuation.

      2. designbot*

        Using trans in quotes is something most typically done by people who are denying that trans is a thing, or denying that a certain person is trans… it implies you’re questioning something about their trans-ness. Which, I’d encourage you not to do! And if that’s not your motivation in putting trans in quotes, I’d want you to know the context for why that choice is causing people to question your sensitivity and motivations here. I would drop the quotes, call them trans, and continue to use their preferred pronouns, so that you’re seen as supportive of them generally.

        1. Argh!*

          I have no idea what other people do when discussing people since I don’t frequent the same internet as you do, apparently.

          1. Rhymes with Mitochondria*

            Now who’s sensitive? Seriously, we are telling you that you are doing something wrong and that it seems to indicate an attitude that is a problem. You asked for advice on communicating with this person, we’re giving it to you, stop being so sensitive (or could I say “entitled and narcissistic”) and listen and learn. It might just help.

              1. Forking Great Username*

                Maybe think about how you would want someone to tell you to dress better. You seem to also have trouble accepting any criticism or unsolicited advice, so perhaps whatever would work for you would work for your employee.

      3. The Gollux (Not a Mere Device)*

        Non-binary trans people are trans. Your coworker’s gender is different from what they were assigned at birth.

        Putting a word in quote because you’re using it for a specific one of its meanings is, at least, unusual: other than for literal quotes (Aargh said “I’m not using it generically”), the common uses include emphasis on signs (non-standard and often made fun of) and to indicate that you don’t think the thing really deserves that label. That’s part of *why* things like a sign saying “try our ‘blueberry’ pie” are mocked–because they’re trying to say “Wow, Blueberry!” and it can come across as meaning the thing isn’t really blueberry.

        And lots of people *do* put quotes around “trans” to indicate that they don’t think transgender is a real thing, or occasionally that they don’t think a specific person meets their arbitrary “qualifications” for being called trans. So, if you really don’t mean that, best to drop the quotes.

  238. Cheesesteak in Paradise*

    I am almost positive that this is the anti-trans trill who posts here all the time but I’ll bite…

    This has nothing to do with trans. Just discuss the dress code with the employee (eg, no exposed skin below the neck and above the knee or something), preferably with an HR person present if applicable. If you don’t have a dress code, come up with a gender neutral one for all employees.

      1. Cheesesteak in Paradise*

        I meant troll. There’s a troll who brings up trans issues every week – maybe you, maybe not, I don’t know or especially care.

        For the butt crack issue…

        Just tell your employee that clothes have to cover from neck to knees and theirs are too revealing. If they persist, send them home for the day. Have a dress code.

        I worked in a lab where you got sent home the first time you wore sandals and fired the second (safety issue with chemicals). I don’t think anyone got to the second time. Same thing. You have to dress appropriately for your job.

        It’ll be an awkward conversation to have, but it’s nothing to do with being trans.

      2. Jenny*

        Then why did you put the word trans in quotes as if this is a questionable thing? I mean, if a person is dressing inappropriately for work, you address it. What does her being trans have to even do with her inappropriate dress??

  239. Broomball fracture*

    Help! I broke my (non-dominant) hand! Any tips on how to navigate work-related tasks? My boss has offered to purchase speech-to-text dictation software, but I don’t have tons of typing to do right now other than replying to emails. (I’m a scientific researcher and finished fellowship applications in December/January.) Has anyone been in a similar situation and have suggestions on anything from completing daily tasks to getting ready for work/doing hair?

    1. I'm A Little Teapot*

      In general, if you’ve got a cast on you, people are going to cut you some slack in the grooming department. Just make sure you’re clean and relatively neat – they will understand the same simple hairstyle, etc. Luckily, this won’t last forever!

  240. Argh!*

    If you can type with one hand, a touchpad to replace the mouse may help. If you can move your hand enough to use the touchpad for navigation, you’ll feel more productive.

  241. Emily*

    It sounds like this is a dress code issue rather than a gender issue; your employee’s trans status only seems relevant in that maybe the changes in their body have changed the fit of their clothes. I think that it would be reasonable to tell an employee of any gender that while they’re on the job, they’re expected to meet [reasonable, gender-neutral dress requirements here]. (For example, clothing that covers the midriff at all times.)

    2. Argh!*

      Thank you. They have been through many varieties of clothing experiments, some of which were very close to being immodest (our only dress code standard is to be “modest”). This is someone who really likes to attract attention, so I’m conflicted because 1) it could be temporary and 2) it could be intentional. So that’s the particulars of the trans issue — it comes with a sensitive personality that’s quick to anger and take offense. They seem particularly sensitive about anything related to appearance (though any constructive criticism is really difficult for them to hear).

      On my part, there’s the ick factor — I don’t want to see anyone’s butt crack. I’ve supervised many people over the years and I’ve never had to deal with this issue. In the “old” days, women were expected never to bend over, but to bend at the knees and squat to pick something up. That doesn’t seem to be true anymore, but yet I can’t remember a time when I’ve seen a woman’s butt crack! Men could bend at the waist, but they had long shirt tails (in an office) so butt cracks weren’t an issue.

      FYI, this person is not wearing old clothes in a new body. All these clothes are new.

  242. Keladry*

    What do you do when someone on your team isn’t responding to your Slack messages?

    One guy on my team hasn’t replied to a couple messages this week… One time I was responding to him asking the team for a favor, and the other time I reached out to him to offer to help with a project. So, I’m confused…

    1. Crystalline*

      You could ask him–something like “hey, I noticed a couple times this week I messaged you and didn’t get a response. Is there a better way to reach out to you/do you prefer an email instead?” Or, he didn’t think the message warranted a response (though it’d be polite to say ‘thanks but no’ for help on a project, at least). Either way, won’t know ’till you ask.

  243. Too Open Comms?*

    I handed in my notice at my job. I would like to say I could not be happier but I would feel better/lighter if I could have a direct conversation with my boss and teammate.

    There are two of us with the same title and job description reporting to one manager. Last year, our boss left the majority of a massive project to me because I had the more technical skills to complete the work. My coworker felt underutilized to have been left with coordinating the meetings for Big Project, and spoke to myself and our boss about it. It was helpful to me to know that she wanted to plug in for more of a project management role, something she’d brought up for a least a year, rather than to do the scheduling/people wrangling/etc. aspects she was given during Big Project.

    At annual review time, my boss told me there was nothing he would change about my performance in the past year. He also said he would change nothing about my role/job description to make space to take on additional responsibilities in line with my long-term career goals – because everything for Big Project was perfect and he needed me to do it again on a bigger scale.

    Shortly after this, my boss became unresponsive to any request I made for vacation time. I would follow up multiple times by phone, email, chat (he is remote 100% of the time), and when he would respond, he would tell me I needed to provide verbal or written confirmation that teammate was in the office to cover our desks/seats while I was out. During the same time frame, teammate was able to take several long weekends without getting verbal or written confirmation from me that I would be in the office that day to cover her seat. I began to get frustrated and document everything for HR – they were helpful in getting my boss to respond to give me one day off (not my bday, because there was a major deadline, but a day shortly thereafter to call my bday day off).

    While the vacation fiasco was happening, I asked my boss twice to follow up to my annual review because I felt some of my questions on opportunities for growth and taking on additional projects were not answered. Between emails one and two, my boss appointed Teammate as project manager for Big Project 2: Bigger Project. After email two, he called me to say I was only asking for another review because I was insecure about teammate being PM. He then explained that teammate applied for a job in another department, and he wanted to make sure our team didn’t lose her. I didn’t want our team to lose her either – she’s an amazing colleague – but I wasn’t clear why letting her be project manager was mutually exclusive from allowing me to do more predicative analysis and data visualization.

    Come holiday time, boss tells me I can’t put in my Thanksgiving or Christmas vacation requests until we coordinate coverage for our desks as a team. For two weeks, I bring up holiday coverage in our weekly team check ins and he defers to the next week. When I tell him it is now or never for me in terms of booking flights, he says it is too late because coworker already has the dates off and I need to be in the office to cover.

    All of this is important because when I handed in my notice, my boss wanted me to tell him why I was leaving. I kept redirecting the conversation to what I wanted to do for a transition plan because I could not think of a good way to capture the information above without giving him another reason to say I am insecure or gaslight me in some other way.

    Now that I am only a few days away from gone, I would like to discuss all the incidents above with my boss. Not knowing why he can’t invest in both of our growth at the same time, or why we aren’t both entitled to take vacation as we need it, has been eating at me, like I did something to cause what happened. It seems silly to think this is all he result of coworker applied for a different job, but I also wan to leave on a good note and not drudge up something to give my boss ammunition to say good riddance I left.

    1. WellRed*

      Move on. You had your chance when he asked. There’s nothing to be accomplished by dredging it all up now.

    2. Nancie*

      If your boss has half a brain, he knows he’s completely screwed up.

      Try not to blame your teammate — it’s possible that they had no idea how the boss was mishandling things. For instance, they might have been told there was some particular deadline reason that meant you couldn’t take vacation over Thanksgiving and Christmas.

  244. Lilysparrow*

    I’ve been concerned about my freelance revenue lately. I fired a client about six months ago and was having trouble finding a steady replacement.

    This week, the ED of a nonprofit I volunteer with asked me to submit a proposal for a long-term project with ongoing management. They’ve been here over 20 years. They’re well connected and well funded. I love their mission. The ED and core staff are intelligent, thoughtful, kind, and good at their jobs.

    The ED told me to name my price, and accepted my proposal the same day.

    It’s a good week.

    1. NoLongerYoungButLotsWiser*

      Congratulations!! So glad you found not only a replacement client, but one you LIKE!

  245. HiddenPixels*

    So, I posted a few weeks back about resigning for a new position in IT and how a good part of the reason for my leaving was due to my deadbeat coworker (DBC) disappearing for hours during the day, generally doubling my workload, and generally being of little use. I also mentioned that I found out DBC had been let go from his previous job for stealing equipment and selling it online, resulting in criminal charges. Part of my/our job was to maintain inventory, and I didn’t trust him, especially after catching him taking home an expensive piece of hardware (I found out about his old job after this). I did mention this to my manager when I turned in my notice. This week, I got a text from DBC that he was let go but wasn’t given a reason why. I also got some notifications from LinkedIn that he had snooped my profile, so I did the same and saw that he had copy/pasted my job description and used it as his own (*eye roll*). This guy, I have no words. Oh, and I also found out that the reason for his disappearing during the day was likely because he was driving still for Uber during work hours. “Still” because he was doing this while he was a contractor prior to his hire. I was told that it was the worst kept secret in the company, and the person who told me about it couldn’t believe the company hired DBC. Apparently, Ubering on company time had been going on for quite a while. They said “like clockwork, my team would see him go to his car at about 9/10am and not come back until around 2pm.”

    I’m a little irked that DBC straight up copy/pasted my job description. I guess this falls under “work smarter not harder,” so he gets points for resourcefulness. I’ve been at the new job for a few weeks now, and so far I really like it. I’m being challenged and have been assigned some really interesting projects. My team is fantastic, and everyone is on the same page as far as work ethic goes. I’m going through a small bout of impostor syndrome right now, but I think it’s because what I’ve been doing for the past year has not challenged me (at least not in good ways). I think it will pass quickly because people do seem to really value my contributions so far. I’m pretty excited to see what the future holds with this job. It’s been a good few weeks!

  246. Fed up and apparently over the hill*

    Hi
    This is more vent than anything else. Have been told that at 55 my supervisor thinks I am too old to learn anything new and didn’t want to put me up for training. I’m limited in my response because I was told in confidence so if I say anything it will be very clear where the knowledge came from. Also there is no form of age protection etc here. But I also question the motives of the person who told me. He’d be the team lead of the project – mid 30s and he’s internally hired 25-30 yr olds for this team and has complained to me about an older direct report that was already on the team when he joined. So am now thinking maybe he only told me so I wouldn’t make a formal request to his team. It’s made me question my worth here and I was thinking of leaving but now wonder if I’m going to have the same response elsewhere and why not just plod along in my current dept for another 5 years until I can retire.

    1. New Job Description*

      Does “no form of age protection” mean they are allowed to discriminate and/or even fire you for your age or is it not that sinister?

      If not, and the worst that can happen is your supervisor says no and you “plod along” until you retire, I would say put in the training request anyway. Prove him/her wrong!

      1. Fed up and apparently over the hill*

        Thanks – am an expat abroad so limited protection. Lots of internal politics at work. It’s not as bad as you will be fired – more like you’re not deemed worth the effort. I can afford to do the training independently so think will do that if I’m blocked internally.

    2. London Calling*

      Find a few studies that talk about neuroplasticity in the older brain – essentially that the brain continues to rewire and make new neural connections when given new things to learn whatever your age. Mind you, I wouldn’t want to work for someone ignorant enough to think that 55 is old. If you think they might be slightly open minded about it, point out a few older achievers as well – Nelson Mandela who became president of South Africa at 76, Ray Croc started MacDonalds when he was 52, the Queen’s still going strong at 92….pitch it to their self-interest. Train and nurture you and they’ll get years more work from a committed employee who thinks they are valued.

      1. Fed up and apparently over the hill*

        Thanks – I found it so demoralizing when I was told. Now I’m just annoyed. I’ll take the training if I have to pay for it myself. Will channel my inner Lillibet – she just keeps on going no matter what.

        I did think it was some weird reverse psychology – he tells me I’m not good enough so I would go all out to prove him wrong. Errmm no thanks – don’t want to play that game

        1. London Calling*

          Use that annoyance as fuel to go for it and prove them wrong. And I’m pinching inner Lillibet because I need one right now as well.

  247. New Job Description*

    A bit late to the chat, but came into work to find our employer has updated our job descriptions and wants us all to sign them? Is this standard or common? I work for emergency management at the local government level (USA), if that might be relevant. The wording of the email had a sort of ‘sign or else’ feeling to it that has me a bit worried. Thank you in advance for any insights!

    1. ..Kat..*

      Do you agree with your job description? If not, how do you feel about emailing your manager with changes?

    2. That Girl From Quinn's House*

      We’ve done it at my work, usually it has nothing to do with you per se. Often it’s because some people are improperly trained and skipping parts of their job, or there’s been an incident and they added something minor to explicitly counteract that, or HR realizes they haven’t updated job descriptions in awhile or that some managers were using old and out of date ones and they want all of the descriptions across a title to be uniform. Sometimes it’s a precursor to corrective action for some employees, if your HR department believes in collective warnings as a defense against “that’s not fair no one told me you’re picking on me!” during corrective action meetings.

  248. matcha123*

    I’m late to this and maybe no one will see it, but my question is about how someone from a smaller town can survive in a larger city’s workplace. Especially as a minority.
    Should I be talking about my accomplishments throughout the day as a senior colleague does? This person has made assumptions about me that are untrue, and seem to be based on her impression that I am a lot younger and with a lot less experience than she has. I’m not interested in running through my life’s work in the office to prove a point.
    Some people in my area have suggested that I speak up more and push back on things because people in larger cities expect that.

    For those who have moved to a large city, say NYC or Chicago, from a smaller town, how did you have to change to get ahead?
    For those in large cities, what is it about the communication style of people from smaller cities that you dislike?

    1. PBJnocrusts*

      Hi matcha123
      My first job was in the big city and I came from a small town. It depends on the culture of the company but I think talking about how awesome you are all day is arrogant and off putting. My advice would be show how great you are in your work. Show you r proactive, efficient etc that’s how I got appreciation in my first big city job.

      1. matcha123*

        That’s what I was hoping to do, but it hasn’t worked out that way…sadly. But the consensus about the bragging is something I will keep in mind. Not really looking to copy that.

    2. MissDisplaced*

      Depends on the city, but in a lot of big cities the people can seem brusque, and it’s faster paced. Don’t let them intimidate you.

      The best way is to proactively ask for goals and metrics from your manager. And then meet them!
      Do good solid work. Do extra when you can, but keep personal work/life boundaries too.

      1. matcha123*

        Maybe that’s where I was wrong. My supervisor only talks to me once a year about my work and I don’t think she has the skills to judge my work and is basing her review of my work on what another coworker says.

    3. Indie*

      I don’t think this is a regional style of communication so much as it is a defensive jerk style of showing off. I wouldn’t copy it. It’s hard to know how insulting she is, but if it is appropriate, just being quietly amused at a person’s self importance is very powerful. It isn’t rude but it drives them nuts and lets the world know you have both the confidence to keep your bragging count low and to know a faker when you see one.

      Another option, is to just keep giving her rope by letting her make whatever assumptions she wants. At some point the truth will trip her; you can finally pipe up or other people will correct her and you can just shrug and say that you don’t know why she makes such assumptions. As a minority, people will know why. A good look for her, huh?

      It’s also not bragging to correct an insulting person in mid-flight with an ‘Actually that’s not correct…’ You’ll know when the best time to do this is upon you.

      Good luck!

      1. matcha123*

        Totally agree with your advice and I’ve been keeping quiet myself.
        Unfortunately, it’s not really helping me. Or maybe it is and I don’t know it.
        But, I am glad to hear that bragging is unnecessary!

  249. PBJnocrusts*

    Bit late to the party here but going to try anyway. I’ve been in the Teapot Lid industry 9 years. Just got my Teapot Lid degree/qualification last year. Lost my job after 8 years in March 2018 then worked a contract Teapot Lid role until November 2018. Unemployed since then. I get interviews,about one per month but no offers. Almost no jobs advertised in Teapot Lid field for the last few months.
    Now I have an interview for a job outside my field of Teapot Lid but skill set I have will suit this job – let’s say it’s Teapot Trays. Should I go for interview for outside field role? I’m worried I will not like the role Teapot Trays and want to leave and blacklist myself from that company. (Company also has Teapot Lid section).
    Also 6 Jobs have been advertised at various Teapot Lid companies in the last week. Should I hold out for one of these roles and give up on Teapot Trays totally? Any advice very welcome thanks all :) Alison you are awesome:)

    1. anonymouse for this*

      I’d say take the interview just to see what’s out there. It may give you a different viewpoint on the job’s potential.

  250. Exhausted*

    How do you move on from a bad work environment – either by sucking it up and changing how you deal with a situation or by leaving and putting it behind you without the destruction of you from the place destroying you long term?

    The questions
    How do you know when to just deal with it and when to walk?

    How do you know when you actually move from target on your back to legitimately believed in?
    How do you deal with a workplace that seems to have one expectation for you and one for everyone else?
    How do you shut out the regular focus and talk about you?
    How do you not let the chatter change you?

    How do you dust all the negative off in an attempt to be able to sell yourself in a job interview?

    The information
    I started a job at the same time as another person. There was a lot of attention on me from the start in this role, which was not meant to faze me. I knew I had a strong work history and I had always well and truly surpassed any targets set by a company. However, the chatter going on behind my back but within easy ear shot of not only me but everyone else in the team that sits between me and the chatter, has literally destroyed me. I honestly never even knew this feeling lately was even possible at the hands of a workplace/people at a workplace. My co-worker who started at the same time never gets mentioned despite the fact of a really high error rate especially in the first few months. At that same time my quality sat at 100% (which actually is my standard in my employment history.)

    I know I started with a target on my back and that the attention somehow lead me to extreme self-doubt in my ability which has now seen my quality and speed jumping all over the place (although I still actually always meet quality targets.) I question my knowledge virtually multiple times a day and sometimes just feel like I know absolutely nothing (which is not me historically and is not fun dealing with virtually 5 days a week).

    Here is where my real issue is though – I know I had a target on my back in those early days but maybe, just maybe, those early days (before the negativity consumed me) of my 100% quality may have turned the person who had the biggest target on my back into a supporter. Recent company changes means we now see where we track in comparison to everyone else in the team and my quality/speed is literally right in there with the majority of the team(there is a huge bunch of us grouped together on the charts) Most of the people in the team have been doing this work for between 4-10+ years. Somebody is way quicker than everyone else but has much lower quality and two others have much lower quality and the speed is around the same or lower as well. Considering all that I am clearly not actually doing all that bad in less than a year. However, I seem to make one mistake and the reaction and chatter (why the chatter has to occur in public and not behind meeting room doors is completely lost on me) starts all over again, you would almost think the world just caved in.

    The job in question is no longer a issue as I have resigned as I could not validate the mental and emotional toll it was having on me any longer unfortunately, so clearly my priority right this second is dusting off the damage from this job in order to sell myself to a new job. However, I know I never want to be in this situation again and my handling of the situation could have been better probably but how exactly is lost on me at the moment so looking for any words of wisdom I can get.

    Thanks

    1. MissDisplaced*

      My sympathy. It’s hard to be in that situation and sometimes there is no solution but to leave. Try to know it wasn’t you. Clear your mind and headspace and then begin looking again.
      Unfortunately, I haven’t found a solution as to how to ascertain these environments during interviews. I try, and I’m usually right. But what I find is that a job is fine at first, 6 months, a year or even more, but then something changes within the company (new management, merger/divestiture, moving, financial issues, etc.) and it goes from being great to a hellmouth within a short time. It’s happened to me 3 times now.

    2. PBJnocrusts*

      My sympathies also OP – a workplace like this really takes its toll – especially if u r sensitive like me and the toxic chatter was not deserved, which it sounds to like this was the case. You’ve taken the first positive step which is to get out of the place. I wish I would have done that as this kind of workplace is detrimental to your mental and physical health . As for moving on it can be hard – when I left a toxic workplace it took me a bit to adjust to a non toxic place. I was used to negative things happening and not used to ‘normal’ place. Try to remember that you are/we’re not the problem, that you have a track record of awesome, and that this place you have just left is not a reflection of you, it’s the place that is the problem. When you are applying for new roles at new places say to yourself this is a new place new start, new people new everything and I have left that toxic stuff behind. Best of luck !

  251. Fake Old Converse Shoes (not in the US)*

    I had a disastrous week with our chaotic client.
    At Monday I started working at Tiny Feature no. 2456, asked last December. Then, as soon as I came back from lunch, my team leader told me to focus in some other task because the client is no longer interested in it. On Wednesday, they changed their mind and said Tiny Feature no. 2456 is now Big Feature no.2456 and label it as crucial for the next version. Team leader and Boss have a discussion and managed to change its priority to moderate. Thursday afternoon started with a Parks&Rec Coffeemaker situation, until we found out someone at Operations revoked our VPN access entirely (and making me unable to go on with Tiny Feature no.2456). Finally, on Friday the Team Leader got a reply from Operations: instead of disabling our former Lead Engineer account, someone deleted all the accounts that had his name on it (which, considering he was the former Lead… were all of them). They slowly came back to life, but most of the day was lost and I couldn’t hand in Tiny Feature no. 2456.
    Phew!

  252. Rob*

    So I posted last week about a weird older guy at my new job who antagonizes all the younger people. He’s apparently about a year from retirement, so he just walks around the office all day chatting with people. When the people are millennials, he starts cracking mean spirited jokes. They’re not really jokes — I’m a fan of some comedians which people could definitely be offended by — just him saying how much he hates millennials. If you say “that’s nice Ted, I have to get this done” he’ll start going off on how millennials hate older people and don’t want to work. He has to support his adult son, which is apparently the source of his bitterness.

    Nothing’s changed over the last week. I emailed Ted’s manager, and the manager didn’t reply. I spoke to my boss, whose office is on a different floor, and he said he’d try to get in touch with the guy. Most of the millennials on my floor are resigned to it, and they just go “that’s how Ted is.”

    In my state (New York), age discrimination is defined as being for people over 40. So this just falls into the broader category of being a jerk, and IMO someone should still talk to him about it.

    He also tried to corner me in the bathroom and start giving me a hard time about my weight. While my BMI is overweight (I’m 6’1″ and 210 lbs), I also go to the gym 3-4 times a week, run an 8 minute mile, and can squat my body weight, so I’m definitely healthy.

    To be honest, I kind of hate coming into work knowing I will have to deal with this guy. It makes me want to call up my old job…

    1. LNLN*

      Wow, Ted is being really rude. How comfortable are you being rude back to him? Rolling your eyes, saying the same stock phrase (“Aaand here we go again…”), getting up and walking away without responding, making a tally mark on a piece of paper, saying to another millennial, “Ha, I win! That’s the fourth time Ted criticized me today…beat you!” Whatever works for you. I mean, Ted has forfeited the right to be treated politely. Band together with your coworkers (and not just the millennials, I am a boomer and I would support you) and complain as a group. I am so sorry you have to face such a jerk every day at work. I recently retired and the last year in my job I worked closer than ever with the millennials on my team and I totally loved their energy, intelligence and skills. Ted is missing out!

      1. T. Boone Pickens*

        I’m sorry you’re going through this. Ted sounds like a total dick. I echo what LNLN said in that I would clapback at him. Ted cracks on millennials, you ask him what it was like before electricity/cars/television was invented. As for the weight comment, now that’s completely out of bounds, you can safely tell him to fu** off if that comes up again.

        1. Rob*

          Thanks for your kind words, both of you! IME people of every generation have their own ways of being good and bad at work, if you get what I mean. I’ve worked with millennials who just give up at the slightest difficulty or complication that comes out of left field and I’ve worked with millennials who are great because they’re very unorthodox in their backgrounds and approaches to things. Same with boomers; some people have just mentally checked out of work, and others are great at getting to know everyone in the entire office and developing a communal office spirit.

          I haven’t pushed back, because Ted is in HR. Rational or not, that gives me a worry that if I say something like “millennials don’t work? So is this work for you, Ted? You’re just standing over me ranting at me. Cut it out.” he’ll be able to pull strings to get me in worse trouble than I could ever get him. I’m just documenting everything and sending it up the chain. My frustration is because no one seems like they can or are motivated enough to get him to cut the crap.

      2. jolene*

        Next time Ted corners you in the bathroom and discusses your weight, smile flirtatiously, lick your lips and say: “Oh, Ted, how you *love* to talk about my body, you sexy thing, you! Want to take this into a cubicle?”

        He will never bother you again.

    2. Friday afternoon fever*

      “Sorry Ted, I don’t have time for this.” (Starting now, you never have time for Ted.) “I said I don’t have time for this.” At you desk: “I need you to let me work.” “Ted, you need to leave me alone and let me work.” “Ted, why are you not letting me work like I asked?”

      In the bathroom: “Excuse me, I have to go.” “Excuse me.” “Please let me by.” “Ted, why are you preventing me from leaving the bathroom? This makes me extremely uncomfortable.”

      Basically: you officially have zero time to speak to Ted about anything not work related. Your voice is completely neutral, but firm. You can cut him off when he ignores you. If he persists, name his behavior and ask what is up with him (this is Alison’s advice)—sometimes that’s effective.

      For your managers, probably the most productive framing would be that Ted is preventing you from doing work/ wasting x amount of your time and you’ve asked him to stop repeatedly and he’s ignored you.

      Do you have HR? Are you in the US?

      By cornering you in the bathroom and commenting on your physical attributes Ted is exhibiting textbook workplace harassment via a hostile work environment. Do not be afraid to use the words “harassment” and “hostile work environment” if nothing else is working, especially in tandem with “he cornered me in the bathroom.”

      BEST of luck with your Ted problem

      1. Rob*

        Oh boy, Ted is in HR. That’s why I’ve been a little wary of really talking back to him, outside of “Ted, I’m trying to work right now.” It’s also why I contacted his boss over going to HR — his boss is HR. AFAIK he doesn’t do anything related to investigating disciplinary claims or the like, but something related to benefits.

        I work for a state government agency, which has me pessimistic on any disciplinary action happening to Ted. I’d bet $100 that he’s antagonizing people because he has some power here because of that, and that he’s a complete doormat outside of work.

        I’m in New York State, so if you’re antagonizing someone because they’re young, that’s not age discrimination. Age discrimination here is being targeted because you are over 40.

        Here’s my updated plan: I’m going to send another email to my boss and Ted’s boss listing out what happened over the past week (bathroom incident was Thursday) and look into other avenues for making a formal complaint, like an anonymous hotline for our organization or the like. I’m going to make a huge paper trail of every time this guy has been antagonistic to me or any other younger person on our floor. To be honest, I kind of want to see him get fired, because he’s an enormous jerk. I’m fine trading rude jokes with my friends, but this guy has a very malicious attitude of “I’m saying I’m joking, but I’m just trying my hardest to get under your skin because you can’t do anything about it.”

          1. Rob*

            TBH I am not a lawyer so I am a little reticent to start dropping terms like harassment and hostile work environment. It hasn’t yet escalated to the point where I think it makes sense to get a lawyer involved. It’s possible that the weight comments were him ramping it up, because he saw he’s getting under my skin and he wants to twist the screws, and it’s possible he’ll make up something to get me fired as I start pushing back (including saying that I threatened him or made comments on his race or age). I don’t think it’s impossible but I also don’t want to fantasize about nightmare scenarios; there is no use for that.

            He is antagonizing me on a daily basis, though, and I think in a competently run organization, his boss and HR would sit down with him and tell him to start behaving like a normal human being, so it’s possible it’ll get much worse, but we’ll see.

  253. Confused recent grad*

    TLDR: would you accept a job at a place that tried to trick you to accept a lower salary, after you found out that they advertised the position with a higher salary?

    I got an interview last week for a translator position at Agency X. I found the job ad on a site. The thing is, the site requires you to state your expected salary ; you can’t even give a range, you really have to give a number. So I put mine as, let’s say, 4,000 a month.

    So I was asked to come for interview, did a test that took two hours, and after the interview was told that the decision would be announced around next week (so this week).

    On Monday this week I was called and asked to come for another interview on Wednesday. I said okay. An hour later I was called again and told that the hiring manager had a meeting on Wednesday, could I comeon Thursday instead? I said fine.

    So on Thursday, I came to the office expecting a second interview for the translator position. Instead I was offered another position that’s still related. I ended up taking another test that took 2 hours. They were obviously unprepared ; I had to wait for around 15 minutes while they put it together. After I finished the test, they took only like 10 minutes to evaluate and offered me the job on the spot, right there and then. I asked for a few days to make a decision, and they seemed to get caught off guard by this, but said yes. (throughout the day they kept acting like obviously I would take the job, going so far as assuring me that they wouldn’t try to negotiate the 4K I asked for).

    When I checked the site, I saw that they had posted the ad for the position… But that the salary they offered is quite higher than what they offered me (they offered 6K on the ad). It immediately turned me off. I feel like they’re trying to trick me in the hope of getting a cheaper employee.

    So the question is, should I take the offer? From what I’ve seen during the interviews the place is quite disorganised. Reviews in Glassdoor-like sites also talk about bad management and horrible work life balance. But I’m on my first professional job hunt and I’m just not sure whether this is a legitimate red flag or not.

    Any thoughts and advice will be very appreciated!

    2. Jerry Vandesic*

      Go back to them and say that you have researched the compensation for the new position, and that you would like 6K. They changed the job, so your original expected salary doesn’t apply. You should feel free to negotiate, and decline the job if it doesn’t match your new, adjusted expectations.

    3. Colette*

      They aren’t trying to trick you, really; they’re giving you the salary you asked for. What are other companies paying for the job you’ve been offered? Where does your experience fall?

      If you believe they are trying to underpay you, why not ask? “I see that you were planning to pay 6K for this job. Can you explain why you’re offering me 4K?”

  254. Decima Dewey*

    It’s been an interesting week and a half at my library branch.

    First, one of the branch managers in my cluster decided he’d stop sending us help each week. No emails to my boss or Grandboss saying this, so I discovered this on a day when I was in charge, the head of circulation was out and my other full time circulation assistant called out and there was no sign of the additional circulation assistant I was supposed to have. So I called the other branch manager and he agreed to send Diva, who used to work at this branch. Now Diva is proudly intransigent. She openly says she won’t change her behavior for anyone. I have no doubt that previous branch manager remembers the day when Branch Manager was asking Diva a question just before closing and Diva, seeing closing time show up on the public computers, shouted her usual “Six Oh Oh, Gotta Go!” and ran out of the branch as Branch Manager was speaking to her. Diva also hates homeless people, which is not a good thing when you’re working at a library branch in a low income area. Her principal objection to the homeless appears to be their very existence. Rather than tell Fergus (our guard) that some people were eating in the library, she took pictures on her phone and the next day sent an email headed “Library or Gathering Place for the Homeless?” to all our staff, Grandboss, and several others. We do get some homeless people in our branch, and our staff is compassionate towards them. The homeless get kicked out of the shelter early in the morning and aren’t allowed back until dinner time. The library is the safest place they can be until then. As long as they don’t break library rules, we let them stay. This is policy throughout the system, although Diva doesn’t seem to realize it.

    Next came the rat problem. After months of no rodents, we found several dead rats in the branch. Grandboss ordered us closed and the person subbing for her while Grandboss is out sick told us to wait for the exterminator. That was last Friday, and exterminator never showed. Late Sunday night, my boss, Mr. Lastname, called and said that the branch would be closed on Monday and that, except for him and the guard, we’d all be redeployed to other branches. It turned out that the rats likely came from the dumpster used by the apartment building behind us. The rats had been poisoned and essentially came into the branch to die. We had a cold snap, and I guess if dying rats have a choice they want to die in a warm library and not a cold alley. Mr. Lastname called me at Other Branch on Monday and said he’d recommended the branch be reopened the next day, but that it wasn’t his decision to make.

    I waited, didn’t hear anything, so headed back to Other Branch on Tuesday. I got inside, opened my email, and learned that my branch was opening that day. So I ran out to catch the trolley and traveled from 70th and Redacted to 34th and Also Redacted. As it happens, I was en route to other branch when the email saying we were opening that day was sent (it takes a long time to get from my apartment to Other Branch).

    Later that week, I cursed what my late father used to call the family Mennonite work ethic. The family hasn’t been Mennonite since my great-grandmother’s day, but her feeling that the Almighty didn’t put us here to enjoy ourselves stays with us. Also the implicit feeling that if you are enjoying yourself, you should stop doing so posthaste. Anyway, late in the day when Mr. Lastname had gone home early, Great Grandboss sent an email saying that the exterminator would be back to actually do stuff in the branch. Great Grandboss blithely said that staff (meaning Fergus the guard) would be in by 9:30 the next morning. Except I knew that Fergus had training that morning and it was too late for Mr. Lastname to have seen the email. So I arranged to get to the branch by 9:30 (my official start time was 9:45), came in, did some stuff, opened my email, and learned the exterminator was coming between noon and 2. I should have know better. Not my swamp, not my ratties.

    There was additional drama involving Mafalda and Sophie (part-timer) thinking that the rat problem was Fergus’s fault because Fergus cooks at the branch. FWIW Fergus is also the one who urges staff to throw out leftover food in a trash can with a lid, and most of the rats we found were in an area where nobody sane would eat.

  255. Indie*

    Scripts for shutting down someone with a litany of relationship complaints at work?

    Coworker has no issue letting everyone know firstly that her partner is a good-for-nothing, secondly and more problematically, comments that ‘All men are useless. Present company excepted!’ Lastly she has a way of fixing you with an expectant gaze, in the full expectation that you’ll reciprocate and reassure her that your relationship is shite too. She is indulged by some women with that last one.

    We are scheduled to go on lunch together in our small break room and I don’t want to have to find somewhere else to eat. I’m good with rude people, but this seems more clueless and pathetic. Giving her the ‘I am watching paint dry’ look and saying ‘I don’t believe that about men actually’ usually works with this kind of thing, but isn’t here. I suppose I feel too much sympathy when she’s in complaint mode, then she tends to ignore me in favour of having men reassure her that they haven’t taken offence when she belatedly realises she is in misandrist mode.

    As for the last mode, would it be too evil to say I am deliriously happy in my relationship and that my fiance could a write a book entitled ‘How to be a Wonderful Partner’? I used to so hate smugly happy people when I was unhappy in love but I don’t think I ever assumed that unhappiness was just the default for everyone.

    1. Lissa*

      I never found a good way to deal with this, to be honest. I used to work in an environment where every other person would constantly complain about their partners – I never did and a coworker once earnestly said to me “oh, Lissa, you’re the only person who actually likes her boyfriend!” I think some people are just used to believing single is worse than unhappy, and a couple of those people end up drawing everyone else into it.

      I wouldn’t make it a gender thing. I don’t think that will end well. I’ve seen both men and women do this. By the same token I wouldn’t deliberately go on about how happy you are, but I also wouldn’t shy away from saying “Sarah and I had an awesome time at the theatre last night” or whatever when not in response to her comments.

      I would stick with bland politeness and changing the subject, or ignoring when multiple people get in on it. I wish I had better advice but from personal experience, this kind of thing is very hard to break people out of.

      1. Indie*

        The commiseration itself is very helpful! You’re right that it’s not a gender thing – just something she tells herself about men to excuse staying.

        I’ve had similar comments to your one in past jobs and I think I just said: “Oh I take my complains to the source”.

    2. Friday afternoon fevers*

      Short fix is to tell her you’re not up for talking on your lunch break because you want to recharge by listening to music/podcasts. Then keep headphones in whether you’re listening to anything or not.

      1. Friday afternoon fevers*

        You don’t have to address or fix her mindset, you just have to make yourself unavailable as an emotional outlet.

      1. Indie*

        Oh she’s had this question believe it or not! She just sees it as normal commiseration/furtherance of the conversation: “Well what can I do?” or “I’m used to blokes and their ways by now” or “If I was younger or had money, I’d probably leave. You know how it is”.

  256. Tabby Baltimore*

    I suspect you have a manager problem disguised as a gossipy workplace problem. I gave it some thought, and looked at my archive of things I’ve saved from AAM, and found a post from Alison that appeared 11 years ago (https://www.askamanager.org/2008/08/how-to-find-out-if-your-prospective.html), but still might be relevant to your situation. I realize that you’re more concerned with how to present yourself in an interview, but you might want to also consider addressing some questions to your potential future manager to help you discern how effective your potential manager is likely to be.

    A couple of additional interview questions/answers I got from another post (https://www.thecut.com/article/questions-to-ask-in-a-job-interview.html) that might be helpful to you are:
    (1) Q: “How would you describe the culture here? What type of people tend to really thrive here, and what type don’t do as well?”
    A. If the culture is very formal with lots of hierarchy and you’re happiest in a more relaxed environment, this might not be the right match for you. Similarly, if it’s a really competitive environment and you’re more low-key, or if they describe themselves as entrepreneurial and you prefer structure, it might not be an ideal workplace for you. If you don’t have a lot of other options, you still might decide to take the job anyway — but you’ll usually be happier if you know what you’re signing up for, and aren’t unpleasantly surprised after you start.

    (2) Q. “What are some of the challenges you expect the person in this position to face?”
    A. This can get at information you’d never get from the job description — like that you’ll have to deal with messy interdepartmental politics, or that the person you’ll be working with most closely is difficult to get along with, or that you’ll need to work within draconian budget restrictions on your program.
    It can also create an opening for you to talk about how you’ve approached similar challenges in the past, which can be reassuring to your interviewer. I don’t recommend asking questions just so you can follow up with a sales pitch for yourself — that’s annoying and usually pretty transparent — but if asking about challenges leads to a real discussion of how you’d approach them, it can be genuinely useful for you both.

    I’m so sorry you feel so bad right now, but with time I’m sure your prior level of self-assurance will return. You have a great attitude about going back into the ring, and I have every confidence that you will handle yourself credibly at future interviews. All the best.

  257. Spunky Sarah*

    Hi,
    I am looking for work right now as my company got bought out a month after I began working there. A year later, they finally dissolved my position as well as many, many others. Anyway, I’ve run into some strange things while job hunting. One employer sent me a “thanks, but no thanks. We’ll keep you in our files,” email. However, over the course of the email, he stated who he had actually hired and began to list all her skills and how excited they were to have her on board and how she was just perfect for the position. I wasn’t sure how to take that. Then I applied to another position where they asked for a photo (I am not a model, nor am I an actor). I recently went on an interview and the employer asks ME what I think a person in my field should be getting paid because they didn’t know. Then he asked if he could call me after his next interview, go over the applicant’s experience points and then I could decide what scale he or she should be on. He also asked if I’d be willing to let them know how a typical day in that position (it has to deal with social media) should go. I told him I would be happy to for a fee as I also work as a business consultant and would be glad to advise him on any number of things.

    Lastly, I had a potential employer interview me over the phone and then that she just hated how millenials expected things like a salary, bonuses, career advancement and *gasp* respect at the job. I did not accept their offer. One employer I interviewed with was angry that I came to the job interview fifteen minutes early. Is this just my experience and not a picture of how it is right now? I feel like I’ve been dropped into the Twilight Zone. Perhaps it’s just me.

    1. Darren*

      It could be the nature of the jobs you are applying for. It sounds like they are social media/PR type roles. Given I’m in IT I know nearly nothing about those roles and it sounds like at least one of those companies is in the same boat (I need someone for social media/PR but what do they do? How much should I pay?) and he revealed that during the interview. I imagine there are better ways to phrase it “We are a growing company, and have realised we need someone to handle our social media/PR side of the business. Given this is going to be a new role we are going to rely heavily on the candidate that we hire to structure the role and build it out from scratch.” and then move on to questions about how you as a candidate would think it should be structured, and using that as part of the evaluation criteria for the position (i.e. looking for something that sounds like it would work), and renumeration would be something like “Given this is a new role we haven’t fully fleshed out the details of the compensation package, could you let us know what you’d be looking for.” perhaps mentioning like having approval for the budget, or even given it’s a must-have position having agreement at a high level that they’ll pay what they have to for the right person.

      For the photo I wonder if it’s a company that’s looking to use you in a combined model/social media role where you would be the face of the company, have an instagram for the companies products, or do live streams or whatever. It would depend on the nature of the company but I imagine there are some social media roles that do drift into the model/actor territory. Given you aren’t looking for that though I think you could take the request for the photo as indicating it’s not the kind of role you are looking for.

    2. Colette*

      1. Run from the company that asked for a picture.
      2. It’s weird that the company didn’t do their own research into the market rate for the position. That’s strange, but not necessarily disqualifying. But asking you to evaluate other candidates is very odd.
      3. 15 minutes early is pretty early. It’s not disqualifying on its own, but it would be annoying, depending on the office setup. (Your interviewer is doing something else before you get there, and can’t necessarily let you sit unattended until the time of your interview.)

  258. Bruiser Woods*

    My coworker made a mistake and blamed the subcontractor he was supervising. Somehow he got away with it and our client might be willing to pay $1000s for it but I think he acted dishonestly in the way he deflected responsibility when reporting the mistake to our supervisors and the client. Should I still inform my managers or will I look like I’m tattling or trying to dig up dirt as I don’t like this guy and I think he’s about to be promoted over me?

      1. Bruiser Woods*

        I only overheard him blame the mistake on the subcontactor to our manager. I wasn’t there on site when the mistake happened but I do the same job and I was taught its our job to supervise the subcontactor and give them clear instructions. Well our client pays us $800 a day for our expertise so if something goes wrong while we are supervising I see it as ultimately its on us. But my coworker blamed the subcontractor even though he was supervising them. He let them make a decision about how to build something that was wrong. But he was on site the whole time and we are the experts who are supposed to make those decisions and oversee the work! My manager didn’t understand the job and so when my coworker said was the subcontactor screwed up he believed him then I think they they somehow managed to get the client to pay for the job to be redone. My relationship with my managers isn’t that great even though I do good work. They favour this guy over me. He’s complained about me behind my back too I guess that’s why and I’m sick of him getting ahead at the expense of reputation of others.

        1. Darren*

          It sounds to me like you are saying he accurately indicated that the subcontractor made the decision and it was wrong. Whether he should have been the one to make the decision is a separate matter (and if you boss cared he would likely have question that at the time) but your coworker merely indicated what the subcontractor actually did.

          Unless there is more detail here you are missing he didn’t lie or obviously misrepresent anything.

          1. Bruiser Woods*

            He was supervising them as they did the work i.e right there watching what they were doing. He was there on site being paid $800 per day to do nothing but direct and supervise their work. Shouldn’t he be the one to make the final call? Not our profession but I will provide an analogy so you get the picture. An electrician is doing some wiring, an electrical engineer supposedly has specialised knowledge about how it should be done and was hired to supervise the work. The electrical engineer has a degree but no site experience and doesn’t actually know how it should be done. The electrician says I think it should be done this way. The electrical engineer agrees. The wiring blows and it costs the client $2000. Who is at fault?

          2. Bruiser Woods*

            He represented his degree of responsibilty by coming back to the office blaming the electrician and refusing to take any responsibility himself.

  259. Delta Delta*

    I left an incredibly toxic workplace about 2 years ago. I have gotten word that the toxicity has ramped up to previously unknown levels of hellishness. This week half the employees gave notice and are leaving or have left. (It’s a small place so half is 4 people)

    Question: do I celebrate this horror show’s continued collapse with champagne or should I save that for when it inevitably completely shuts down?

    1. Bruiser Woods*

      I only overheard him blame the mistake on the subcontactor to our manager. I wasn’t there on site when the mistake happened but I do the same job and I was taught its our job to supervise the subcontactor and give them clear instructions. Well our client pays us $800 a day anyway for our expertise so if something goes wrong while we are supervising I see it as ultimately on us. But my coworker blamed the subcontractor even though he was supervising them. He let them make a decision about how to build something that was wrong but it was his job to make the decision. Its not like the subcontractor disobeyed his instructions or anything. My manager didn’t understand the job and so when my coworker said was the subcontactor who screwed up he believed him then I think they they somehow managed to get the client to pay for the job to be redone. My relationship with my managers isn’t that great even though I do good work. They favour this guy over me. He’s complained about me behind my back too I guess that’s why and I’m sick of him getting ahead at the expense of reputation of others.

      1. Bruiser Woods*

        Sorry posted above in wrong place. For now take out the popcorn, save the champagne for when it does collapse. Most importantly just be thankful you left two years ago. I hope you are much happier now.

        1. Delta Delta*

          Thanks! Sometimes when I get news like this I picture myself like the Michael Jackson popcorn gif sitting back and watching things unfold.

  260. SaffyTaffy*

    I just really wanted to share with everyone that I got kicked out of a Facebook group for replying to someone comment with “not everyone can have sandwiches” because that’s ableism and according to the mod, this blog is hella ableist af. So that was funny.

    1. Mrs. Fenris*

      Oh, good lord. This place is one of the least ableist places I know. I’m kind of amused that they recognized it.

      1. SaffyTaffy*

        That’s how I felt! Like, you’re familiar enough with AAM to recognize the fairly obscure joke, but they think, what, exactly? That A’s defense and clear explanations of the ADA and FLMA is ableist??

  261. Old dog*

    I am job seeking and concerned about references as I have spent about 10 years self employed prior to
    My current job where I have been for two jobs. Who can I use for references in my current search? I don’t want
    My
    Current employer to know I am job hunting at this time. For context it may be helpful to know that I am in healthcare and clients would not be appropriate references as they might in other industries.

    1. Moonbeam Malone*

      Oh, I was hoping I’d see some answers pop up on this as I’m curious as well. How were your clients coming to you? Were they being referred to you by someone? Did you have professional contact with other healthcare professionals while serving your clients?

  262. A Reader*

    Long story short – I am currently a contractor who may have to get back into the job market in the next few months, and I am not sure how to present my freelancing work.

    I started freelancing in 2009 while working a 9-to-5 job. I eventually left the day job to freelance while staying home with my children. I eventually went back to work outside the home in 2016, got laid off last year, and am now in my contract job. How can I convey that I have been working since I graduated college in the early 00s, and that I don’t have gaps? This is the current outline of my resume.

    Contract work 2018-Present
    Company that laid me off 2016-18
    Freelance Work 2009-Present
    Old Company 200X-2009

    1. Moonbeam Malone*

      Honestly this looks fine? You don’t really have gaps here, and by its nature it’s not too unusual for freelance work to shift between full-time and part-time. I don’t think this is going to raise eyebrows.

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