can I put running my household on my resume?

by Alison Green on February 25, 2020

A reader writes:

I’m looking to move out of arts/media, where I’m currently director of a small department, and into business operations, probably looking for director of operations and similar jobs. I’m part of a three-adult-one-child family and act as family CFO/COO/HR, and I’d like to reference that experience when I’m applying for jobs. We have a combined income of about $250,000/year and really do run our household like a business, complete with Slack, an intranet, and regular staff meetings.

On the fiscal side, I create a detailed annual budget, send out monthly income/spending/asset reports, pay bills and payroll (each household member has a personal bank account separate from the household accounts and gets a weekly allowance), and approve large expenses. I’ve both reduced our debt load and taken out loans when we needed them for specific purposes; I’m meticulous with on-time payments and raised the other family members’ credit scores from the low 400s to the high 700s. I negotiate with banks for fee reimbursement and lower APRs. I ensure every eligible bill is reimbursed by our health insurers and/or FSAs. My spreadsheets are mighty.

We have a part-time employee on the books (an after-school sitter working 20 hours a week). As HR/accounting, I’ve set up a separate payroll bank account, pre-funded it to ensure paychecks never bounce, and hired a payroll company to ensure tax compliance. I arranged worker’s comp insurance, familiarized myself with employment laws, and drafted our employment contract. I handle interviewing, hiring, negotiating terms, reimbursing expenses, addressing concerns, and terminations. I also find, hire, and am the primary point of contact for contractors (maintenance, cleaning, one-time sitters) and professionals (accountant, attorneys).

On the facilities side, I found our home and negotiate lease renewals with our landlord. I use professional architectural software to plan our interior design and am in charge of purchasing, arranging, and maintaining our furniture and appliances. I supervise services for regular and as-needed cleaning and maintenance, and do a lot of the housework and DIY myself.

(At this point you may be asking what the other adult members of the household so — they also work full-time and handle the majority of childcare, pet care, shopping, and cooking. And they remind me to sit down and take a break every once in a while, which is a valuable service.)

I’m really proud of the work I’ve done to keep our family home and finances in excellent shape and to be a good employer, all on top of my full-time day job. Is any of this something I can put on my résumé, or at least talk about in interviews? Doing this at home is what’s making me want to do similar things for businesses, and it’s much more relevant to the types of jobs I’d like to have than most of my recent “real” work experience would be.

I’m nonbinary (they/them pronouns) and fairly masculine in both dress and demeanor, but I have a feminine name and someone looking at my résumé would probably assume that I’m female. I hate that that’s relevant, but it probably is.

You can’t list it on your resume.

Mostly that’s because this is work that a ton of people do just as part of managing their lives, so it doesn’t really rise to the level of resume-worthy — even if you’re doing it better or more intensively than most people do. In most households, someone is creating a budget, paying bills, managing the money, dealing with health care reimbursements, managing mortgages or leases, purchasing and maintaining appliances, arranging furniture, and hiring contractors! I don’t mean to minimize what you’re doing — you sound like you’re managing a lot on your own and doing it well — but this is work that most people end up doing in one way or another and just doesn’t belong on a resume.

I think you’re thinking that what might be different in your case is that you’re taking such an organized, fastidious approach to this work — and indeed, that does set you apart from a lot of people. But not enough to justify putting it on your resume. It’s the same reason you can’t put that you planned your wedding or complicated family trip on your resume, even if it was amazing and massive and work-intensive — it’s still more “common life activity” than “resume-worthy achievement.”

Including it on your resume would also risk looking like you’re inflating the work or misunderstanding the ways in which doing these things for a household differ from doing them in a professional context.

On top of that, with work you do for your household or family, you’re not accountable in the same way you would be at a paid job. If you dropped the ball a bunch, aggravated your household members, paid bills late, went way over your house budget, and hired a bad babysitter, a prospective employer would have no way of knowing that. Your family members can’t be references, and they’re also far less likely to demote or fire you than an employer would be.

There is more leeway to bring up things from the personal realm when you’re early in your career and don’t have much professional experience to reference. I’ve talked previously here about the recent grad I once hired for an assistant job whose cover letter mentioned — as a way of demonstrating obsessive organization — that she color-coded her closet and used a spreadsheet to organize her music. But once you have a fair amount of professional experience, you’re expected to stick mostly to that.

That’s not to say you couldn’t use one particularly compelling detail (something that’s truly above and beyond what most people do at home) in your cover letter to illustrate your orientation toward details and organization — you might be able to work that in. You could even reference an especially compelling component in an interview if it came up in an organic way. But that’s more about fleshing out who you are as a person, rather than citing it as work experience.

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  2. SomebodyElse*

    You will be much better served finding examples of your operational skills within your current profession. Listing the your personal household experience will do more to tank your credibility than you can imagine.

    1. Legal Beagle*

      +100. This reads like a stay-at-home parent putting “CEO of my family” on a resume, and it goes over like a lead balloon. You have a high-level job supervising a department! Dig into that to find transferrable skills. In an in-person interview, where you can convey more with your tone and gauge the other person’s receptiveness, you might be able to bring in some personal details about your organizational skills and interest in Operations, but even then it should be very minimal.

        1. Fiona the Baby Hippo*

          i hate nothing more than the people I went to HS with calling themselves “girl boss” on their profile because they have an MLM job. We all have jobs! It’s like bragging about showering!

          1. AnotherAlison*

            Glad I’m not alone on this. I mean, kudos to that one percent that is really crushing it in MLM and has a large sales army under them, but that’s not most of them. I know a couple people who were CPAs and RNs doing this. Their husbands have great incomes and they have 4-5 kids and can do whatever they want, but I’m not sure I’d get much professional fulfillment from selling stuff to my friends. I know I’d be embarrassed to wear a bedazzled Girl Boss ball cap.

            1. bottomless pit*

              I can’t even give props to those that are crushing it with MLMs. They’re doing so by brainwashing their downline. Such a sad industry.

              1. Skyto*

                I know someone crushing it in MLM that doesn’t have a downline (or maybe like one or two people under her, but she was successful before they joined). She just hustles her ass off and works 18 hours a day. But I will openly admit that she is in the .000001% that can do it.

                1. Eukomos*

                  I know someone who had a good experience in an MLM, but it was a pretty niche set of circumstances. She was just out of high school and not looking to make huge amounts of money, was an attractive and personable young woman selling products that were overpriced but reasonably useful, and had a fair number of friends and family that wanted to help her out. Outside of those circumstances I can’t see how it’d work.

                2. soon to be former fed really*

                  If there is no downline, then by definition itis not an MLM. Could be real direct sales, but not MLM. And the MLM definition of crushing it is different than mine. I clear way over six figures annually working 8 hours a day. And if there was overtime, I would get paid for it.

                3. Anonymous Poster*

                  She’s not the “.000001% that can do it.” The problem isn’t that people in MLMs don’t work hard enough, it’s that the business model is designed for their failure. She’s in the roughly one in a hundred, according to the Federal Trade Commission, who’s not losing money.

                  Also, someone who’s working so much they can’t get a typical amount of sleep isn’t crushing it.

                  When you post things like this, people who are desperate enough to join MLMs think it is a sign that they could be the special person who’s up to the challenge. But no matter how special they are, they’re being set up for trouble. I hope your friend and/or you move on soon.

                4. Lyra Silvertongue*

                  Honestly I don’t think it’s really very responsible to claim people who are “crushing it” in an MLM unless you are very, very intimately aware of their financial circumstances, are 100% sure that it’s an MLM, know that nobody else is being exploited by that particular MLM, and feel personally comfortable with the company itself. Hiding debt and failure is a huge part of MLM culture. If there is no downline, it’s not really an MLM. If there is a downline but she’s making money, your friend is most likely exploiting others into an inherently unsustainable business structure. That’s not even getting into the issues with the quality of products pushed by MLMs, the often dubious nature of their founders, and their deliberate targeting of low-income women.

                6. selena81*

                  @Lyra Silvertongue
                  Exactly: if this girl is just a neighbor or friend-of-a-friend it is highly likely she was overstating her succes because she bought into the whole fake-it-till-you-make-it ethos.

                  It is possible she also inflated her work hours in order to look like a hard worker. Or it is possible that what started out as a fun little side-hustle for just a few hours a week spiraled into an all-consuming search for new business-opportunities.

                  As to MLM’s in general: i suppose they do make a good enough ‘career’ for bored housewives who like to sell some make-up or sex-toys to their rich friends and don’t care about money or downlines.

                1. AnnaBananna*

                  They totally are…until they’re introduced to the concept of allowance. Muahahahaha! Hang in there parents!

              3. Rainy*

                I’ve leveraged my dachshund’s proficiency at fetching to prevent him from consuming the used tissues he steals from the bin, and if that isn’t management I don’t know what is.

              4. Seeking Second Childhood*

                Q: Tell me about a time when you found your child drawing on skin, either their own or someone else’s. How did you manage the situation?
                A: (…)
                Q: And if it were a Sharpie?
                A: (…)
                Q: Interesting. What would you do if a teenager proposed skin markers as a compromise?

                [why yes I’m feeling a bit punchy this afternoon!]

                2. Falling Diphthong*

                  If you move the furniture there are still little messages from my son on the wall. “Why I like her.” “Why I hate her.” (I deduced he was working through some stuff vis a vis his older sister, and a ballpoint became involved.)

                  Umm… by staying out of it until they both grew up I demonstrated my hands-off management style?

              5. You Guys Are Harsh*

                Honestly I think you guys are being a little harsh of OP; at the very least I think there are some positives in what OP has mentioned and maybe some context framing that would be useful here. I do agree that it doesn’t really belong on the resume (or shouldn’t) but I can see some context where OP might feel compelled to, OP isn’t nuts for wanting to convey what might be some very relevant skills that would benefit an organization in a professional setting.

                As in, why does OP feel it’s necessary or beneficial to list it, versus just touch on some of the skills/experiences in the interview?

                For example one legit reason I can think of is companies/organizations (typically very large ones or the gov’t) that have very VERY strict/rigid requirements for the job. They basically require you in one way or another to check a Box or otherwise extract information directly from the resume to answer a question such as “Do you have at least 3 years of experience painting teapots?” And anything but a “yes” response would be automatic rejection. So, if OP had this experience at home but not at work I could see this being beneficial (and in this situation you or application scenario, putting it right on the resume/questions/etc would be the only “hope” OP would have if progressing to the interview in that scenario.

                That said I would try to use restraint and find an alternative approach if that’s the situation. I would not make it “CEO of the household” or stretch claims too far but if they asked “Do you have experience doing X I think it would be fine to say yes provided you are honest about it.

                Also as someone who has a lot of professional experience doing the kind of things OP has listed from their life at home, (but seriously like does not go that far with those things AT all at home as I don’t particularly enjoy those things and find it overwhelming I think OP’s energy and approach to running a household is promising and very well could translate into being a good foundation for developing those skills and qualities professionally

                1. Perpal*

                  I hope OP doesn’t take the jokes harshly but rather in a good natured way… and understand that’s what people may be thinking if they put that on a resume.

                2. selena81*

                  It’s a delicate balancing act: i think there are definitely things in there that show she/he is way more organized than most people. But as soon as someone admits ‘i only did this in my own household’ a lot of people will dismiss the entire application as ‘clueless housewife not understanding how real jobs work’.
                  If they are to use it as proof they should really focus on hard succes (such as improving credit score) rather than making a huge deal out of hiring a baby-sitter.

                  Running a household simply should not be the focal point of a resume: no matter how great you are at it, most people will just roll their eyes. It’s like recent grads trying to re-frame taking classes as work-experience: it’s not cutesy, it’s not orginal, it will make you look stupid instead of merely inexperienced.
                  Sneaking in some tidbits about rocking household finances seems okay to me, but LW should really really try to mine relevant anecdotes from their paid job instead.

            2. MillersSpring*

              e.g. Amway, Mary Kay, Pampered Chef, Cabi, tons of other stuff including phone and electricity service

      2. WellRed*

        Yeah, this went off the rails for me when they mentioned HR/accounting. And then it got worse.
        Frankly a well run household of 3 adults/1 child and $250K is less impressive then a well-run household with more than one kid and $80K.

        1. Rusty Shackelford*

          No offense meant to the OP, but “together we make $250K and I’ve managed to reduce our debt and pay all the bills on time” did kind of make me think “well, I should hope so!” ;-)

          1. AKchic*

            Right?
            So many of us struggle doing to make ends meet at $40k-60k and 5-6 people (2 adults/3-4 children) in the home every year (and we’re considered “middle class”) that I’m trying really hard not to side-eye this one here.
            I mean, I don’t really know what to say, because “sorry your SAH person experience can’t be used and rewritten in any way to sound professional to your advantage” sounds really… petty? No. Petty isn’t the word I’m looking for. Sarcastic. And I don’t want to sound sarcastic. I know that being a SAHP is hard on a person and a person’s career, and that we need to be supportive and help SAHP work to transition back into the workforce, but depending on their length of time away, their industry and industry norms and advances, sometimes a lot has changed while they’ve been away, and jumping right back in isn’t always feasible. Or, if they never did anything but low-level work and are looking to make serious money (i.e., they only made $30-40k a year and now would like to make 2-3x that money because “I have kids to support” or “my partner(s) bring in twice that and I need to keep up”) then obviously, there is another level of disconnect, but that’s a hypothetical that may not even be realistic (I only bring it up because it’s an issue my own husband continually deals with when he is looking for work).

            1. Rusty Shackelford*

              They’re not actually a SAHP, though. Which means it makes even less sense to focus on household-running skills instead of work skills.

            2. fposte*

              While I still think it’s a mistake for a SAHP to do this, the OP isn’t even a SAHP–they have a job. That’s why people are saying it’ll look weird for them to 1) skirt their actual paid job when they’re talking about their achievements and 2) make their household management sound like a workload so massive that they’d need to give up when they take on a new job.

              1. AKchic*

                And that’s really part of the issue.
                This person has really made the importance of their at-home “CEO” role that their actual paid work is hardly a blip on the radar.

                How much of the home-life work is done at the office when they should be doing paid work? How many hours a week are they spending on all of these spreadsheets and tasks in general? The way it’s written, it sounds like they are spending a *lot* of time on it, but I bet you it’s maybe 5 hours a week on the majority of the spreadsheet/computer tasks (calendaring, budgeting, bill-paying, etc) just like everyone else and it just sounds like a lot more because of the way it’s written out. However, not everyone is going to think of that. If they look at the list of what was written, they will think “who has time for all of that *and* a day job?” and question anyone’s time commitment to any job outside the house.

                1. fposte*

                  Yeah, they have a nice comment downthread that frames things a lot more realistically. I think writing in served a very useful purpose to the OP in seeing how framing matters on this; it’s good to see a situation where somebody really is asking the question and taking the answers on board.

                2. Helena1*

                  Five hours? How is anyone spending five hours a week on their household spreadsheets?

                  I agree this makes it sound like OP is making a massive meal out of paying the cleaner and setting up some bill autopays. If that is OP’s hobby and they enjoy it, good for them. But if I was interviewing, I’d be worried about how big a drama OP would make out of doing other routine tasks.

                2. Elizabeth Proctor*

                  I think it’s Stay At Home Person in this instance. Usually you see SAHM for Stay At Home Mom.

            4. mcr-red*

              Yeah really! I have 5 person home (2 adults, 1 disabled adult, 2 kids) under $40K and am really struggling. So if someone like me is interviewing OP…that’s not going to go over well.

          2. Observer*

            So much so, that I’d be worrying about their sense of finance and frugality.

            The only way I could see using that would be in a conversation about getting people to change their perspective, by getting former spend-thrifts to recognize that just because they are high earners, doesn’t mean they can spend with abandon or thinking about costs.

            I get that you are thinking “managed significant sized budgets”, but that’s only relevant if you managed them well. Keeping a 4 person household with $250K annual income out of debt is barely passing. Thinking that this is remarkable would make me wonder if you can manage anything like the typical challenges a business or non-profit encounters.

            1. Perpal*

              As someone who earns a bit more than your average american family (though a bit less than LW), and who thinks about this a lot (how can I be making so much money and still feel so tight for cash?) a lot depends on what they mean by debt etc; if there were large student loans to get to that level, a mortgage or car (“good debt”), and if aggressively saving for retirement and kids college is considered, money doesn’t go nearly as far as you think it should and it’s easy to constantly see red despite a high income. And taxes (state and fed) can take off another 30%; suddenly $250k is actually 175K then trying to save 15% for retirement, max out a 529 plan at 10K a year, maybe aggressively pay off a mortgage and student loans… you get the deal. And when my pay doubled my employer health insurance deduction also doubled and is around $10k/year!
              To stay at the same income in retirement, social security (in the US) will keep up with someone earning 40k/year, but if you are earning 100k/year and want to keep that up after retired, have to start saving a lot extra.
              Not trying to say $250K/year is as hard to live on as $40K/year at all, just saying it doesn’t usually end up being $210K extra liquid cash a year.

              1. Observer*

                Sure, but even with the explanation that the OP provides later on, staying out of debt is not that remarkable. And for anyone who doesn’t know what the OP’s specific situation is, it’s going to look even less remarkable, even in a HCOL area.

                1. MissaPie*

                  Employers (or anyone) shouldn’t even be questioning OP’s debt and how they spend money, but they are making it relevant by pretending that running their life is a business.

        2. Traffic_Spiral*

          Yeah, I was kinda like “your home life sounds great – high five – but I’m not sure it’s resume-worthy.” You might as well add that you live with a good cook while you can’t cook but love to do dishes.

          1. Doralee Rhodes*

            I think the household sounds kind of creepy. Or at least it doesn’t sound like much fun. Payroll? HR? Staff meetings? I get enough of that stuff at work, thank you very much.

            And on another note, successfully managing a household (of 4) budget of $250K doesn’t take a lot of creativity.

            1. mcr-red*

              Considering I cried yesterday about where to cut back more on our $40K budget, I’m dreaming of all the lovely things I could do with $250K!

            2. Electric sheep*

              In the LW’s defence, I would enjoy living in a similarly well organised household and wouldn’t find it creepy – it is just a preference thing that wouldn’t be for everyone.

            3. Curmudgeon in California*

              I manage a household of five adults on less that $150K in a HCOL area. The others are either on disability or self employed. It still doesn’t go on my resume.

        3. Triumphant Fox*

          Oh yes. Or a well-run household with one adult. I can see some of this coming up jokingly as “I really like my department to run smoothly and get processes in place so I can be confident in my team. I use project management technique X, which I’ve found really effective in managing people at all levels, from Kate, my entry-level llama groomer to Phil, my Director of Llama Grooming Design, and even at home with my nanny or contractors.”

          That’s the only way I could see that working, and even so the nanny and the contractor just isn’t very compelling. So many of us deal with childcare or have renovated a bathroom. But OP isn’t applying to be a house manager for the wealthy, so it really isn’t relevant.

          1. Yorick*

            Yeah, I could see something like, “well, I haven’t used that program/technique in my jobs because it wasn’t part of my role, but I do have experience with it since I use it at home for payroll for my nanny” IF they asked about something very specific during an interview

            1. Blushingflower*

              yeah, if there’s a specific software that they list on their resume and they know it from household stuff and the question is “talk to me more about this software and your experience with it” sure, “oh, I use it for this household purpose” might be appropriate

          2. snoopythedog*

            Haha. I have actively used project management techniques for household tasks/issues/items with my spouse. Great place to practice, would never list on resume.

        4. Jules the 3rd*

          Well, the larger income does provide opportunities that other households may not have (eg, the payroll company). I even get why they’d want to include that, it’s not something most households deal with – I’ve only done it as part of managing a small company. They are managing the household more stringently than most, and are spending more time on it than most.

          But without accountability, it’s not something you can use on a resume.

          1. Marthooh*

            No, really, managing to live on a large income is not that impressive. And $250,000 doesn’t require greater stringency, it just buys the OP the time and bandwidth to focus details.

            1. Jules the 3rd*

              We’re agreeing: I didn’t say they *needed* greater stringency, just that they were managing more stringently, which (to me) is the same as using their ‘time and bandwidth to focus [on] details’.

              I also agree it’s not impressive or non-impressive, but: I don’t know many sub-$100K households in the US that can afford a 20hr/week nanny, so that’s an experience that lower income households probably won’t have.

              1. Observer*

                Plenty of sub-$100k income households DO have in home help, though, whether it’s a baby sitter or cleaning help and they are not necessarily using a service, though. It happens because that’s often the only way 2 parents working full time is feasible.

                Managing THAT kind of budget *might* be something worth bringing up in a discussion (NOT on your resume) in the context of balancing priorities or making challenging budget decisions.

          2. Disco Janet*

            The payroll company thing seems like over the top phrasing that would turn off a potential employer, though. My kids go to daycare while I’m at work. That’s basically a given as a parent and a FT employee in an industry that doesn’t pay enough to afford a nanny. But I’m going to phrase that as, “yeah, it was tough to choose the best daycare when I went back to work and fit it into the budget,” not, “I interviewed, screened, and now manage the payroll finances for employees completing duties for our household.” And I’m definitely not going to put it on my resume!

            1. Yorick*

              “I negotiate the renewal of my apartment lease” also sounds way over the top. Did you actually do more than sign the renewal paper they give you as your lease comes to an end? And even if it involved more “negotation” than that, it’s not really impressive or akin to “facilities management.”

              1. sunny-dee*

                Yeah, this very very much. I have also had apartments, I’ve sold a house and bought a house (more than once). Like … they don’t give out awards for managing basic aspects of being an independent adult. As other people have said, it makes me seriously doubt the OP’s professional (and, frankly, personal) judgment.

                I’m guessing that maybe the OP wants to make a career change, not just a job change, and that their professional experience doesn’t align perfectly with being a director of operations and they’re hoping that this supplements their experience. Except, I do all of those things (and the childcare, shopping, cleaning, and cooking) in my household. My industry is technical writing for software; my husband is actually a director of operations for food retail. The stuff I do to maintain the home is absolutely nothing like his day to day job. If I tried to compare the two, I would look nuts, because these are not the same things and you can’t hyperbole your way into that kind of experience.

              2. Madame Negotiatrix*

                I, too, have “negotiate[d] the renewal of my apartment lease,” by which I mean the leasing office sent me a renewal notice with a new rent amount and I said “lolno” and they sent me another renewal notice with a lower rent amount and I said “closer” and then they offered me an amount I could live with and I signed my new lease.

                The effort on my part was maybe 5 minutes total.

              3. pentamom*

                I haven’t done a lease renewal in a really long time since we’ve owned our own homes for over 20 years, but I can’t imagine how negotiating a lease renewal could really be any more involved than negotiating over a used car. And who is going to put THAT on a resume?

        6. Gazebo Slayer*

          Yeah, speaking as someone who makes $30-some-k, lives in a teeny efficiency apartment in a HCOL metro, and will probably never be able to buy property – the nanny and the contractors are making me roll my eyes.

          1. Helena1*

            Some of that may be location-specific – the waiting list for a daycare place near me is over two years, so lots of people where I live use a nanny or nanny-share.

            I work in healthcare, and a lot of my colleagues use nannies because nannies will work more flexible hours to fit in with nursing shifts, while nurseries close at 6pm. In many cases one spouse’s entire salary is taken up by childcare costs – we do have a nursery place, and I still spend over 70% of my take home salary on fees. You accept it because it is worth the financial sacrifice to still have your career and pension five years later when the children are in school.

            The contractor thing… if you own a house, and your heating breaks, you have to hire somebody to fix it. We fix easy things ourselves too (my husband has soldered the circuits on our washing machine before now). But some things need a pro. It’s part and parcel of owning a house. Which again, is very location-specific. In some places house prices are so high that home ownership is out of reach, in some places houses are very cheap and there is no rental stock available (because there’s no market for it).

      3. Amy*

        Yeah – I have three kids under the age of 4, I’m currently overseeing a home renovation of a historic home while acting as an estate executor and working full-time. I would roll my eyes so hard if I saw this.

        1. Jules the 3rd*

          holy – wow. That’s an impressive list. (no sarcasm, I’ve done the overseeing a home renovation with one kid / full time job, the historic / executor / 3 kids is… wow)

        2. Caliente*

          This is an excellent point – LW you have no idea what the folks receiving the resume do and they could easily be like, um yeah I do all this AT HOME too, so what…?
          That said sounds like LW is rocking it out, but that’s your personal life.

        2. Lee*

          no, you’re not an investment banker. that job requires a completely different skill set than being a mom, even if both are challenging, etc., etc.

        3. Observer*

          Apparently not everyone recognizes a joke / sarcasm when they see it. That’s why we have the /sarc and /jk tags.

          1. nonegiven*

            I thought it was possible that True Story is an actual investment banker who is taking time off to be a SAHM.

      5. Sparrow*

        And if OP is this meticulous and operations-focused in their personal life, I’d be surprised if there weren’t also reflections of it in their current professional life! I agree that there is more room in an interview to throw in this kind of thing to round out their understanding of you as an individual, but in a resume/cover letter, I’d definitely focus on emphasizing professional examples.

        1. Observerette*

          ^ This exactly; OP probably displays these tendencies everywhere, including work and I bet they have great examples, or could pick up some volunteering duties. Everyone has already piled on why they shouldn’t list home information on their resume, but I think a second layer is showing value/impact. This feels very much like a list of responsibilities, and even if it were professional experience it would need more finessing to draw out impact, as Alison has taught us. Reducing debt and increasing credit scores was a decent example, but things like “negotiating lease renewals” or “using architectural software to plan purchases” are not accomplishments, they are duties.

      6. CeeKee*

        Yeah, I could see a few 0f these things maaaaaybe working as secondary talking points in the interview–e.g., “in working with the payroll services company that I contract with to manage my household employee, I’ve found that a common payroll issue…” or “oh yes, I’m such a believer in Excel that I even use it to run my own household” or something like that. But there’s no way to say “by the way, I arrange my own furniture” and have that come off well.

        1. Curmudgeon in California*

          Maybe “I wanted to see how well XXXX software worked so I tested it by using it to lay out my furniture. While the UI was simple, a lot of the drawing templates weren’t flexible enough for what I was doing.” Essentially, using a non-critical project to familiarize with a new piece of software. This comes under the heading on self-development and continuous learning, not actual management.

      7. LunaLena*

        Ha, that reminds me of the I Love Lucy episode where Lucy had a bet with Ricky that she could only tell the truth for 24 hours, but she also wanted to audition for a part and needed to lie about her experience to get it. So she tried to turn her SAHM credentials into experience, saying she’d had an 11-year stint with the Ricardos (she was auditioning under her maiden name), which was a “three-ring circus,” and had worked in 3D (their apartment number).

      8. Imaginary Number*

        There are mommy blogs out there literally encouraging people to do exactly this. It’s awful.

    2. Artemesia*

      If I saw that on a resume it would immediately go in the reject pile because, yeah we all have to manage our personal lives and because it suggests poor judgment. Volunteer work outside the household can be resume worthy particularly for someone who has been out of the workforce but ‘domestic engineer’ stuff leaves you open to ridicule and is likely to literally immediately tank an otherwise possible consideration.

      1. Annony*

        They might want to use the personal experience to take on a volunteer position as treasurer of a club or group if they can find it. That would be less cringy on a resume because there is more external accountability. A club would more likely remove someone from the position if they do a bad job than a family would.

      2. No name this time*

        I was a SAHM for 14 years when I re-entered the work force. I wanted to go back into the same field and my former boss was ready and willing to give a good reference. During those 14 years, there was an upheaval in the way work was done due to the rise of the internet and the use of Microsoft Office.
        I showed on my resume that my time doing parent personal things was relevant to working in an office. I wrote,edited, and published a monthly newsletter for small group. I created a data base of scout information that I used to print pre-filled permission slips. I was a regular volunteer counselor with a non-profit helping women and children. At my child’s school, I was a weekly volunteer in the computer lab and I co-chaired a very large PTA event for several years. There were other things I did that did not make it onto the resume. I only used the resume once — I got a good job that let me re-enter the field and get to to speed and then let me grow.

          1. KayDeeAye*

            Exactly. The thing about home stuff is…there’s no accountability. I mean, not really. You presumably won’t get fired if you miss paying a couple of bills, and you definitely don’t have a supervisor, so no matter how difficult it may be (and it can be very difficult), it’s just not a job.

            In contrast, volunteer work does have accountability – usually not as much as a paid job, but still it definitely has some. As a way of bridging the gap between when one leaves the workforce and when one reenters it, it can be very effective, as it was in your case, No name this time. But the reason it worked is that you were able to demonstrate real-world results, e.g., “I did this thing and that thing, and in the process, I became proficient in Office,” and so on.

            And anyway, the OP doesn’t have a gap that needs bridging. She has an employment history, and she’s still working right now, so there’s no reason to include non-professional experience.

            1. Pronoun Police*

              Just want to remind everyone the LW identified their pronouns at the end of the letter, let’s all be careful to refer to them using the appropriate “their/them/they” pronouns :)

              1. KayDeeAye*

                Thank you for the reminder. I forgot that they’d specified and so I went for the AAM-standard “she.” My apologies.

      3. Perfectly Cromulent Name*

        Yeah, we recently ditched a resume on a hiring committee I was on for basically this reason. We needed someone with a specific type of budget experience. In their cover letter, they talked about how they did not have the specific thing that we were looking for, but they *did* manage their own personal fiances, and went on about how it was very much like running a business. Nope. Next!

      4. Green*

        I agree. I would look at it for two seconds and be amused. Then I would forget about it when the next candidate with relevant work experience comes in.

    3. EventPlannerGal*

      Yes, I am really very confused why OP has landed on this – of all things – when they obviously have workplace experience at quite a senior level. This type of “family CEO” stuff is the sort of thing you mostly see from people who have nothing else they can reasonably put on a CV, and I would be baffled to see it coming from someone who actually does have relevant, current work experience. I mean… why? Do they not use spreadsheets, budget, oversee employees etc in their actual job? What kind of job do they have that they believe that pretty ordinary household tasks are equally worthy of inclusion on a CV?

  3. Count Boochie Flagrante*

    OP, you’re a director of a department! With the kind of skills and habits you’re listing as part of your household management — how could you not have similar accomplishments and metrics for your actual work functions? Lean on those if you have them, and if you don’t, look for ways to incorporate them so you can move these (fantastic) skills into the resume-worthy realm.

    1. StellaBella*

      This.

      I fully agree here. If you use these skills in your directorship, they can go on your resume with acheivements and metrics.

    2. Goliath Corp.*

      Seriously. I might understand this question if the OP was returning to the workforce after a long absence and had no work experience. Even if it’s a small arts organization that the OP thinks won’t be recognizable enough to be valuable, they clearly have management experience outside of the home. And that seems infinitely more valuable.

      Their home isn’t a business just because they have one more adult than most households?

      1. TootsNYC*

        a small arts organization that the OP thinks won’t be recognizable enough to be valuable

        Having worked for, and hired for, name-brand organizations for most of my career, I can tell you:

        most of the time, that lack of name recognition doesn’t matter.
        I worked at a startup nobody recognized–I got hired at a household name.
        Three of my best hires were coming from places that had to be explained.

        The work is the work.

        1. Joe-lean*

          When the work is leadership, though, the size and scale of the organization may be relevant. Leading a boutique marketing firm that is effectively 1.5 FTEs, for example, is not the same as leading a marketing team in a larger organization, even if the latter person appears to be relatively low on the org chart.

          1. Veronica Mars*

            Sure, but I don’t care if the startup is 2 people 5 hours a week in a coffee shop… leadership there is still far, far more relevant than “leadership” of even the largest household.

          2. Marthooh*

            This is no doubt true, but it’s irrelevant to the OP; it’s not like their family is a megacorp.

            Unless you’re a Kardashian, OP?

        2. Count Boochie Flagrante*

          Agreed. My career-launcher was in credit card payment processing — something that people even in other financial areas don’t really think about as a thing that takes whole companies’ worth of work. While this means I sometimes have to do a certain amount of education about my previous roles, it’s done just fine for my career.

        3. Stephanie*

          Yeah, I agree that’s fine. I work at a Household Name MegaCorp now, but was able to get this job with interview examples from my somewhat niche job at a smallish no-name place. You may have to throw in a sentence explaining what your current org does, but I don’t think a reasonable interviewer will care about the prominence of your org.

        4. DarnTheMan*

          +1 – I went from my last workplace (tiny, never heard of organization with 6 full time staff) to my current workplace (country office for large international organization with 75+ full time staff) because the hiring team really liked that I’d been a one-person communications and marketing department. I have about 1/3 the responsibilities now but I was able to demonstrate how having to be a jack of all trades made me well-suited for, in particular, managing relationships with several different teams at once.

        5. Seeking Second Childhood*

          The phrase “places that had to be explained” can be read in many ways.
          (Said while looking around a corporate office that’s had some odd situations of late.)

      2. Extroverted Bean Counter*

        I honestly sat back in my chair a bit when I read the opening paragraph. I was assuming was going to be “I’ve been a stay-at-home parent for the last 5 years, how can I prove I’m a capable human to employers?” and was baffled by the actual circumstances.

        OP – you’re a director. You don’t need to show you can run payroll (which please be honest, you do not) in order to move into a different field of director-ing. You’re clearly organized and driven – if you think you can apply that to an as-yet-unheld job then you can apply those things to your current job and have something you can actually point to on a resume.

    3. Lilo*

      This also raises the question of “why are you not applying these skills at work then” or “are you so busy at home you aren’t devoting to your job”.

      I could understand this from someone returning to the workforce but I might consider this a red flag on a resume. Maybe not as a *single* response to an interview question, but a high focus? Absolutely.

      1. Artemesia*

        I think you can draw on home management in the interview — but only as a sort of anecdotal aside but never in the cover letter or resume IMHO.

        1. Annony*

          Yeah. If asked about familiarity with a software program or something, it would be fine to say “I haven’t used it professionally but I do use it at home to do x,y and z.” I wouldn’t bring up something like the “regular staff meetings” though.

          2. Yorick*

            I forgot about the regular staff meetings. No, OP, you and your roommates/family members do not have staff meetings.

        2. Count Boochie Flagrante*

          Yeah, exactly. One or two of the things in the letter could get mentioned anecdotally during an interview, but more than that really seems out of touch. They don’t care about how you are at home; they care about how you are in the office.

        3. MsM*

          Yeah, I mean if you want to say that you’re so interested in employment and contract law that you’ve been studying it on your own, cool. Maybe you can even get away with saying that you’ve dealt with hiring vendors in a personal capacity if you’re really pressed on the subject in an interview. It’s still not going to compensate for professional experience.

      3. Goldfinch*

        Agreed, I would assume the job title is inflated if the LW needs to emphasize home life in lieu of professional achievements.

  4. Lena Clare*

    I think it might be ok to use some examples in the cover letter, to reference that you’re organised and can manage a simple budget, but yeah – this is not professional experience!

    1. Lil Fidget*

      Yeah, this sounds like fodder for that line I commonly see that’s like, “I love organizing and get made fun of by my friends for being so fastidious,” or whatever. As a heavy Type B person maybe I roll my eyes a little but it is definitely a Thing for the cover letter.

    2. Creed Bratton*

      I read the first several paragraphs and thought “this is adulting.” Everyone does it (granted, OP might do it better than some) but it does not distinguish you as a job candidate. Being able to multitask, take on new projects, follow up with paperwork – all of those things WILL make you a better employee but as qualitative descriptors it just won’t play well on a resume of your professional accomplishments.

      1. Mia*

        I had the same thought. Virtually everyone over like, 22 does this stuff to some extent. OP definitely sounds especially organized, but it’s still not the same thing as being an actual executive.

      3. Not a Blossom*

        I agree completely. If I saw this on a resume, I would roll my eyes hard and pass because it would seem like the OP had no idea of professional norms. They are better off finding examples of this in their current work and if there aren’t any, finding ways to incorporate them.

    1. annewithanE*

      right? the parent jacking here is really uncomfortable.

      i wouldn’t want to work with someone who thinks managing their own home somehow makes them better qualified than other candidates. despite the fact that OP seems to have a robust system, everyone manages their own household. it’s not special.

      1. Veronica Mars*

        In fact, I’d argue that putting this much effort/detail into something this mundane shows signs of not being practical or efficient, with hints of control freak thrown in.
        At work we often discuss “maximizing” (the best possible solution EVER) vs “satisficing” (the one that will meet customer requirements without blowing the budget or schedule). The way the OP described their home systems, I feel like they’re alllll the way on the maximizer setting, and would not be a good fit for our culture.

        And OP, I truly do not mean offense. But I was cringing the entire time I read the letter because of the tone you used. It felt incredibly self important, and the way you discussed your partners felt very infantilizing.
        The key to pulling off a ‘humble’ brag about how much ‘better’ you are at life things than everyone else on the planet… is to do it in a self-depreciating way. I actually have referenced my house in interviews to highlight my organized nature (which is highly relevant to my job). But I do it by laughing at myself – “hardehar, you should ask my husband how he feels about the kitchen organization system and the way I FIFO my soup bowls.” Not by implying “you DON’T fifo your soup bowls? Peasant! How do you live with yourself!?”

        1. Antennapedia*

          I just spent a week working on a high school curriculum for lean manufacturing and I LEGIT laughed out loud at the idea of FIFO-ing the cereal bowls. It’s a great idea! Otherwise they’ll wear unevenly!

          1. Extroverted Bean Counter*

            My husband makes fun of me for always putting dishes away at the bottom of the pile, but we’re still using the dish set I got myself in college while half of his early-adulthood set have broken due to uneven use. I bask in my rightness daily.

            1. 867-5309*

              I need to find a way to use “I bask in my rightness daily,” in my regular conversations, Extroverted Bean Counter. hahahahaha

            2. Liz*

              I thought I was the only one who did this! I live alone and while my dishes doesn’t really wear out, and are pretty indestructible, i still feel like I need to do this. I also rotate my sheets and towels in the linen closet. so they get used and washed evenly.

              1. Glitsy Gus*

                I don’t always do it, but I do more often than not. Part of it is to keep things rotating, part of it does go back to being a little kid and not wanting the dishes on the bottom or the towel int he back to feel left out. I don’t think they feel ‘left out’ anymore, but the habit kind of formed back then.

                1. Environmental Compliance*

                  I’m just happy I now have a better excuse when my husband teases me for rotating things. Even wear is much better than childhood thought of inanimate objects feeling left out that just hasn’t left Adult EC’s brain.

                2. HQetc*

                  Nesting has run out, but Environmental Compliance, you are my people. I must rotate my glassware, or the ones in the back would never fulfill their purpose!

              2. Lady Heather*

                I LIFO my bedsheets.. they just go from the washer to the dryer to the bed.
                Saves on folding time!

            3. CleverGirl*

              I get around this by putting off doing dishes until they are ALL dirty. Same with towels, socks, etc. You people and your organization skills are most impressive. :)

            2. curly sue*

              This fascinates me. How many pairs of identical-use socks do you have, that this is a thing? And how do you remember which ones were used last?

              1. Autumnheart*

                Different responder, but I have about a dozen pairs of identical socks, and I have 4 hampers for separate loads of laundry in my bedroom closet. Strip down, throw whites in one basket, colors in a second, towels in a third, etc. When the basket gets full, do the laundry.

                It’s not a perfect system (I don’t wait until I’m entirely out of socks to do laundry) but close enough for government work.

                1. curly sue*

                  I guess my question is more along the lines of once they’re back in the drawer.

                  If they’re identical, how do you know which pairs were used most recently, to put them last in line? And if they’re not identical, how do they stay in tidy lines in the drawer? And if, like me, you have mostly different socks for different pairs of shoes / moods / activities, and can tell them apart, then doesn’t the system immediately fail because they can’t be used evenly?

                  (Because you might be wearing the supportive sport socks with Docs three days in a row and the dress socks that go with the Nice But Tight Boots only once that week, and then the next week have a bunch of stay-at-home days which require the fuzzy at-home socks instead…?)

                2. Autumnheart*

                  If all the socks are identical, you don’t have separate socks for differing footwear. For that matter, I don’t have very differing footwear either, so my sock needs don’t change according to my shoes.

                  I will inevitably wear some socks out before others. If i find one with a hole, the pair gets tossed. After a couple years when they’re all looking a little worn and I’m down a few pairs due to holes, the whole lot gets tossed and I start again with a new batch.

                3. Veronica Mars*

                  I have roughly 4 categories of sock – bootie socks, athletic socks, cute socks to wear with sneakers, and socks to wear with flats. I draw an imaginary quadrant in my sock drawer. Freshly washed socks get divided up into categories, and then placed at the back half of their quandrant. I always pull from the front.
                  Its not perfect. I’ve considered getting organizers. But it works pretty well. Socks don’t just…. fly around of their own accord at night. Lol.

                4. Seeking Second Childhood*

                  >”Socks don’t just…. fly around of their own accord at night.”
                  I don’t have cats anymore but let me tell ya…the results of having open shelving for clothes in a home with cats? That’s pretty close to socks flying around of their own at night.
                  Teen-adjacent kids tall enough to wear their parents’ clothing is more flying around in the morning than at night.

              2. Pilcrow*

                Probably more info than you want/need … :)

                I have 12 pairs of identical socks. The system is not perfect; some socks are going to get a few extra wears on them. Over the life of the sock it should come out even enough that I don’t have 3 worn-out pairs and 2 pairs where the elastic got brittle from non-use.

                2 ways to track which socks are used:
                1) The socks progress from left to right in the drawer as they are worn. Freshly washed socks go on the left, unused socks get shoved over to the right. I only take socks out from the right side.

                2) I put the newly washed socks so the folded tops are to the back of the drawer. After every wash I flip any unused socks so the folded tops are to the front of the drawer (to me, having the top to the front looks like they are ready to grab).

                1. curly sue*

                  That actually does let me picture it, thank you! XD I am very much not an identical-sock-life person, but I can see how it would be useful for those who are.

                2. The Gollux, Not a Mere Device*

                  Thanks, I think I can use this–right now I just try to shove the just-washed socks to the back (complicated by having three different kinds of socks, and them having to share a drawer with the underwear).

            3. ampersand*

              Y’all would get along SO WELL with my husband!

              Among other things, he rotates the drinking glasses in the cabinet so the ones that are clean/taken out of the dishwasher get moved to the back of the shelf, and the older ones get moved up front to be used. I…do not do this.

              2. 'Tis Me*

                I can see myself trying to do this and accidentally knocking half a row of glasses out of the cupboard…

        2. Extroverted Bean Counter*

          Yes – the over-inflating of responsibility has the hallmarks of the colleague who loudly proclaims how much work they have to do and how busy they are, despite having a smaller workload than others on the team.

          If “arranging childcare, paying bills, texting with my housemates, sometimes replacing a couch, going house hunting that one time, and generally being fiscally savvy” can be turned into a letter like this, then I can easily imagine what a standard office morning might end up sounding like.

          “I have to contact the vendor to inquire about a delinquent report, run the ad hoc analysis of the sales for the entire business segment from yesterday (factoring in returns and warranty work, credit notes, and other adjustments), investigate, analyze, and compile the payment information on last year’s administrative fees” sounds like a lot of work. That was my morning, which actually went like “I had to send a quick, one-sentence email, download a report and copy/paste it into Excel to then send to a distribution, and then check the general ledger to see if payments were made.” It took 15 minutes.

        3. Jules the 3rd*

          Have you figured out how to get him to buy in? I have gotten my husband on board with FIFOing the soup, but I can not get him to remember to FIFO the cereal. Probably something to do with him not being a morning person, and cereal coming before the coffee hits the bloodstream.

          We do not FIFO dishes, though, we run too lean. We often use the last clean bowls or plates as the dishwasher runs.

          1. Veronica Mars*

            Haha, this question made my day so forgive me for answering it in way too much detail. A tenant of lean is to make the “right” option the easiest one.
            So the open box of cereal goes in one of those handy plastic pour-top Tupperware, with the unopened boxes stacked behind it in the cupboard. He reaches for the Tupperware because its way easier than the bag-clipped cardboard-slot-inserted-into-other-flap cereal box hassle. Plus, it was like $5 for the Tupperware, has lasted years, and really does speed things up in the morning.

            1. Jules the 3rd*

              The open boxes of cereal go on a lower shelf where the kid can reach them, we’re good there.

              The problem is when he unloads the car from the grocery run, he puts the new cereal wherever he feels like, instead of in the ‘new cereal’ slot. I’ve got the cereal in 1 layer, old -> new, right -> left (left is closest to the door). He’s even shoved old cereal back to the right after I’d cleared ‘new cereal’ space. The soup’s in the same pantry, same system (older is closer to the door for easier consumption), and he’s fine with putting new soup towards the back. He’s also fine with the pasta / pasta sauce, same system.

              Actually, I can’t even blame lack of caffeine, he drinks his coffee before the grocery runs. hmm….

              This is of course a joke, I’m pretty lucky overall. This and the laundry bottleneck are our only household chore frictions, and he cooks way better than I do.

              1. Veronica Mars*

                hahaha oh, well, in that case “if you want it done right, do it yourself.” No one is allowed to put groceries away except me… lol.

                I do think working “back to front” is more intuitive than “left to right” so maybe thats why soup is easier for him.

                1. Jules the 3rd*

                  They’re both oriented the same way on the shelf, the only difference is the cereal’s two shelves up.

                  hmm – irkedness at cereal being out of order vs not having to unload the groceries…. I’m going with not having to unload groceries, and counting my blessings.

              2. Seeking Second Childhood*

                I came close to buying a house once that had two doors into the pantry shelving … load directly from the attached garage, so it’s always taken out from the other side. Not sure how they kept things from being pushed out into the pantry by overenergetic loaders ready to be done with their task but it still seemed neat.

              3. Jaydee*

                Is it the same type of cereal or a different type? If the latter, he might be getting tired of eating the same cereal over and over, so he subconsciously wants to move the new, ”exciting” cereal up in front of the old, “boring” cereal. Maybe buying fewer boxes of one type at a time to allow more frequent rotation would alleviate this.

                1. Jules the 3rd*

                  what?!?! Go lean instead of carrying inventory?! Not when I can buy 4 boxes at 1/2 off!

                  More seriously, I do actually go leaner most of the time, letting them eat down the inventory, I only care when we’re at 4+ boxes (2 week supply).

            2. iglwif*

              This is a great idea! I keep all the dry goods we use frequently–flours, sugars, oatmeal, various kinds of pasta–in those OXO allegedly-airtight canisters for the same reason, because they are easy to scoop and pour from and it minimizes the number of times anyone actually has to deal with a flour bag.

              At the same time, though … every time I hear someone describe a system like this, I can’t help wondering how they have room to store two boxes of the same cereal (or whatever) at the same time XD

              1. Jules the 3rd*

                We overbought on the house… our pantry runs most of the length of the kitchen, and I love it so much. The pantry, windows, and MIL suite were *the* selling points for our house.

                1. iglwif*

                  YOU HAVE A PANTRY. I want a pantry! Or like … at least some shelves to get some of the stuff off my very limited worktop space.

              2. Veronica Mars*

                haha we have on tiny tiny stand alone pantry cupboard thing we bought that sticks out the end of the kitchen. Part of the reason that I need the fancy containers for the frontmost-face, is because behind the nice polished front, there be dragons. Stuff crammed in like crazy in 3-4 tiers held together with rubber bands, haha.

            3. AnotherAlison*

              I just felt this was the right place to add that my husband only eats his two boxes of Marshmallow Fruit Loops for breakfast each week, so this isn’t an issue at my house. I can rotate my cereal however I want. I don’t know who the psycho was that opened the new butter before the old one was gone, though.

              3. Former Admin turned Project Manager*

                I opened the fridge this morning to see that someone, once again, opened a new bottle of juice while there is still some left in the current bottle (which, admittedly, was hiding behind the gallon of milk. But still- move the milk and look before assuming we need to open new!) I was finally able to stop loading the milk gallons in the spare fridge from back to front; the kids now look at the expiration dates themselves to decide which gallon to open.

          2. JessicaTate*

            Love this. I *might* have given my s.o. a Valentine’s Day card that said, “I love you even though you load the dishwasher all wrong.” They didn’t make one that said, “I love you even though you forget to FIFO the cereal boxes in the pantry.”

            1. Jules the 3rd*

              Honestly, I may love him more *because* he does not FIFO the cereal. I need the chaos for balance.

        4. Archaeopteryx*

          Without the humble, humblebragging is just bragging – but bragging about stuff like paying bills on time is pretty confusing. I understand the sense of accomplishment but this would make me wary of your norms.

        5. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

          > “satisficing”

          I don’t know if that’s a real word or if you guys came up with it but thank you! I use this concept a lot but didn’t have a good word for it (more like being a perfectionist vs knowing what’s “good enough” and then not putting any more effort in!)

          1. Veronica Mars*

            It is a real word! I know this because we have to google it to prove it to new hires all the time, haha. “Satisficing is a decision-making strategy or cognitive heuristic that entails searching through the available alternatives until an acceptability threshold is met. The term satisficing, a portmanteau of satisfy and suffice, was introduced by Herbert A. Simon in 1956”

            We also refer to this cartoon a lot:
            https://xkcd.com/309/

          3. Lady Heather*

            It’s from ‘The Paradox Of Choice’ by Barry Schwartz. The book is absolutely brilliant and one I recommend. He also has a TED talk by the same name (and two TED talks by other names).

            1. Lady Heather*

              Okay – Veronica Mars tells me it’s not actually coined by Barry Schwartz.

              I still recommend the book. And the TED talk(s).

          1. ampersand*

            Okay, so I truly did not know anyone other than my husband did this until about five minutes ago when I started reading this particular thread.

        7. Hillary*

          my boyfriend and I are still contemplating a kanban system for the pantry. it may happen if one of us has a week staycation. Although we would have to borrow a laminater…

    2. Celeste*

      Right. Did you hire the child? Will you fire him or her?

      Please, just don’t follow this line of thinking any further.

      1. Eeyore's Missing Tail*

        I would love to see that meeting.
        Sits down across the table from 7 month old
        LO, we need to have a talk about your performance. If we don’t see some improvement nn teething soon, we’re going to need to discuss your future at Eeyore’s Household.

        1. JokeyJules*

          “you have not been meeting our expectations, particularly the cheerio consumption quota we agreed on”

        2. scarlet magnolias*

          This is like how for seven years I’ve been encouraging my cats to take up light household chores. So far it hasn’t happened

          1. MsM*

            My parents just reorganized their job duties to make them COO of Napping and Treat Acquisition, respectively.

          2. Salsa Your Face*

            You simply have to find the right role for them. My cat, for example, is Executive Director of Destruction and Meowing, and his performance has been excellent all year. I’m considering enhancing the bonus structure to include unlimited belly rubs and tuna treats.

            1. Anne Elliot*

              Part of my cat’s duties are “Treat the Dog With Respect” and “Refrain From Walking Across The CEO ‘s Face At Night” and despite repeated meetings, she is failing her Performance Improvement Plan. But she has lifetime tenure so management options are limited.

              1. CatHerder*

                One of our cats had the duty of “Wake the CEO so He Can Go to His Very Early Job on Time.” Unfortunately, the business has taken a different direction and this longstanding employee is struggling in the new role of “Not Screaming at 4:30 AM.”

          3. Nephron*

            My mom legit had an inspirational management talk with the cat when she had a mouse problem the cat was not dealing with. Not sure if it worked or the cat got offended by the mice getting close to her.

          4. Eukomos*

            LOL! Sometimes if you throw toys they like to chase into those hard-t0-reach spaces behind furniture, they’ll help you dust.

          5. Glitsy Gus*

            My dad used to say the cat was Manager of Vermin Control. A couple times he saw signs of a mouse or something, so he picked her up, brought her over and reminded her of her responsibilities within the family unit. It must have worked, she was an excellent mouser and ratter.

            1. Lady Heather*

              Larry, the Chief Mouser to the Cabinet Office, apparently had to do a jobshare a few years ago because of lack of hunting instinct.. He’s still there, so proof that not all PIPs lead to firing!

        3. Quill*

          “I’m going to put down your yearly personal improvement goal as ‘communicate to supervisors’ since the fact that you can only say goo and ga is hampering our efficiency.”

        4. Super Duper*

          LOL! I’m going to have to put my toddler on probation – she is not meeting her KPIs for listening, eating the dinner that is served, or refraining from throwing toys across the room.

          1. Veronica Mars*

            Psshhh, the leading indicator of “food options available for dinner” clearly shows that you are the root cause for the “eating dinner served” KPI miss, since we both know she only likes mac and cheese.

            1. Super Duper*

              Haha she would definitely agree with this! If it’s not cheese or a carb, why is it even on the table?

              1. 2 Cents*

                And if it’s green, why is it even in the house? Clearly, I’m trying to poison my toddler through broccoli.

                1. 'Tis Me*

                  I’m guessing because the toddler took it off the plate and put it there. And is now arguing they can’t eat it because it’s not on their plate… If you question this it will be put on somebody else’s plate/thrown.

                  My 2 year old is just about hitting a big language acquisition phase but she has always been remarkably good at making herself understood…

  6. Alex*

    Some advice to the LW, be careful to not come off as a micromanager or someone who cannot work with a team without taking over or double checking their entire work. Most of the things you list sound like you took them off the plate of your housemates despite some of them being joint decisions in most households (such as baby sitter selection).

    1. TwoCents*

      I agree. This list of skills/accomplishments sounds very much like that of a micromanager. I’d honestly be reluctant to hire someone who presented themselves this way. It sounds as if they would work poorly with other people and possibly try to steamroll over colleagues with education and experience in a given field or fields.

      1. Pretend Scientist*

        Yeah, this really rubbed me the wrong way. Staff meetings? What does this even mean? Do you make your babysitter and dog walker and house painter come to a meeting with the adults in the house?

        If all of this works for your family, that’s great, but it seems way overboard for a resume and interview.

          1. Annony*

            Honestly, having someone actually do the taxes and other things correctly sounds great for a babysitter working 20 hours a week.

            1. Cat*

              I mean, it sounds like a payroll service. Everyone I know who hired a nanny above board used one. They’re set up specifically for nannies. It’s not that hard.

              1. Aquawoman*

                Yeah, I did that back in the day when I hired a summer babysitter, and it’s of so little import that it took me a minute to remember even after I read this comment.

              2. sunny-dee*

                I was about to say the same thing. If you look for a nanny (or other household help) through sittercity or care.com, they offer payroll services as part of the website. It’s not even a big deal.

      2. RC Rascal*

        I agree. This list makes you sound like you aren’t so much fun to be around. Believe it or not, managers are also looking for people who know how to be about work at work, and not about work when appropriate.

        One time a hiring manager told me part of his litmus test for hiring was this:

        Do I think this person will annoy me all the way to China?

        Part of the job was traveling frequently to Asia to meet with suppliers. Long hours on planes, in airports, not always under the best conditions. He was looking for someone who could interact appropriately with the team and management both inside and outside the office.

        1. Annony*

          Yeah I would say that they run the risk of coming across as very rigid and formal. I can see how organization can be a good thing to make the household run smoothly, especially a three adult household, but emphasizing how you run your house like a business could make it seem like you are not flexible and would not be happy in a more informal work place.

        2. Lora*

          “Do I think this person will annoy me all the way to China?”

          I love this. Love it. Have also done the halfway-around-the-world flight for work and yes, this is a good test.

      3. Traffic_Spiral*

        Well, for someone I lived with and raised a kid with, this level of full involvement would be fine. You share a life with someone, you divvy up a lot of basic adulting. But coworkers aren’t life partners, yanno?
        In an office, that level would have me like ‘whaaaat the feck, you are way too far up my butt here.’

    2. Dust Bunny*

      Yes, this. I appreciate a well-run household but I would orange-flag this as somebody who might be pushy about their methods and stubborn about adopting institutional procedures, even when those procedures were necessary, if the logic weren’t obvious.

    4. T2*

      I would like to comment that it was really funny to refer to ones self as handling HR in a family setting.

      “Johnny, I am afraid I am going to have to write you up for harassing behavior towards your fellow sibling, Sarah. Specifically chasing her with your boogers. I am going to put you on a 30 day PIP. If this behavior continues, there will further consequences up to and including termination. Please sign here to document that you have received notice and are committed to improving”

      Or, “Sarah, I wanted to document in writing my verbal warning confirming that you are not Johnny’s supervisor, and have no managerial authority. Frankly I am concerned that you continue to give him directives as if you were. Please see me so we can more throughly go through your objectives.”

      Or, “I like Holly as a person, but clearly she hasn’t learned to meet the basic needs of her job. I am afraid she isn’t going to make it past her 90 day probationary period”

  7. Muriel Heslop*

    As someone who semi-regularly receives a resume like this, PLEASE do not do it. Volunteer and community events – yes. Running your household – no. Please focus on your professional skills at work and in the community. When I receive a resume highlighting household skills (no matter how professional) I don’t seriously consider it because I question the applicant’s ability to differentiate the personal from the professional.

    Good luck with your job search! You sound very organized and productive and your future employer will be lucky to have you!

    1. AndersonDarling*

      Yeah, it’s the blurring of professional and personal that is the key. I was considering if at any point it would be acceptable to include running a household. If the OP ran a multi-million dollar income with an estate and they managed an army of housekeepers, cooks, gardeners and assistants, and they arranged multiple major events at the estate then I think it is acceptable.

      1. Agreed*

        Still no (unless that is literally OP’s job — to run someone else’s household and they are searching for a new job to replace it).

        1. Rusty Shackelford*

          Right. Because no matter how complicated it is, if it’s your own household, you’re still not in the position where anyone will fire you if you do it poorly.

      2. Dust Bunny*

        No, I have a friend who works as a sort of combined nanny and personal assistant and it literally is her job to do this, but she’s not a family member. She’s not doing this for her own spouse/housemates/kids/household–she’s doing it for an actual employer. THAT would go on a resume.

        1. The Original K.*

          Right. I read about a celebrity who has a house manager who does that – she runs her boss’s household. She puts that on a resume; her boss would not, should she ever have the need for a traditional resume.

        2. Lilo*

          I actually did a year as an assistant for two conductors. It required a lot of work. Some days it was getting coffee and scheduling meetings, other times it was a major event and I had to coordinate with a ton of people and make sure they had their dry cleaning picked up and the visiting scholar was shuttled between his appointments. One time I had to locate and transport a rare percussion instrument. Not at all like taking care of your own stuff.

          1. Casual Fribsday*

            I was waiting with bated breath to find out if these were train conductors or orchestra conductors right up until you mentioned the percussion instrument. I mean, depending on what train conductors do in their spare time.

          1. Malarkey01*

            Sorry I just had snorted and had to heart the Carson/Cora comparison.
            Also to quote Violet “what is a resume?”

      3. RC Rascal*

        This risk of this, provided it’s your own family, is you sound like you don’t need to work. Now if a wealthy family is employing you to do these things, by all means, put it on a resume.

      4. Mockingjay*

        For an estate, you’d probably set up an LLC or something, which then becomes a legitimate business. Most of us will never meet that threshold.

        I was a SAHM. When I re-entered the workforce, my resume focused on my prior jobs and skills, and volunteer work that demonstrated continued use of those skills during those years. Sure, managing my household used a lot of business skills, which gave me confidence in seeking employment, but I could not count any of that as work experience on my resume.

        1. Smithy*

          This is what I was thinking of – if you’re at that level with multiple properties/house staff – then a LLC likely comes into play. In that case, at least it functions more so as a family business that is somewhat more understandable in the professional context.

    2. MK*

      I actually had the opposite strike me: that the OP has a hard time differentiating the professional from the personal. The letter makes it sound as if they have decided to think of their private life as a bussiness and manage it as such, which is …unusual, as many of the comments can show. That is not a bad thing (though I think a lot of people would be put off by this level of professionalism at home, where many go to relax after spending their day being professionals, no matter the financial and practical advantages), and if it works for the OP and their family, it’s no one else’s bussiness. But, to be frank, and I am not proud of admitting this, the first thing I would think of, if I got a resume like this, is “Some people live like that? I guess it takes all kinds to make a world”. And even if a perspective employer is suitably impressed by the OP’s management of their household, do they really want to give out so much information about your private life? To have them think of them as “the candidate who has regular staff meetings with their family members”?

      1. breamworthy*

        Yup. I don’t know, maybe this is more about me and I need to open my mind to other people’s ways of living – but my immediate reaction was that this is someone who wants to define every situation/relationship by quantifiable metrics, and might therefore run into trouble in the workplace through not picking up on social cues.

      2. SarahTheEntwife*

        The most generous interpretation I can get from the letter is that this is a very type-A person who is also trying to play up the business analogs to their housekeeping duties. Family/household meetings are a thing plenty of people do, some households have more specifically delineated chore duties than others, and lots of people get satisfaction out of having all their bills and schedules neatly filed and color-coded (I am…not one of them). But if the LW actually runs their household as a business I *really* hope the other two adults are similarly oriented or it sounds just really annoying.

        1. nonegiven*

          If they managed to raise the other members credit scores by that much, probably by paying bills on time, managing credit card utilization, and disputing bad tradelines off their credit files, then the other family members weren’t doing those things before. Usually people who weren’t doing those things, themselves, just aren’t that organized.

    3. Quickbeam*

      Years ago I was hiring for a pediatric RN for my busy unit. I got a resume from someone who graduated with her degree but never worked professionally. She was trying to substitute raising her 3 children for floor nurse experience. And was playing cutesy games with that, like trying to make her family an LLC. I think she thought she was clever but she’d literally never worked as a professional nurse and we’d have had to essentially train her in everything. So ti was a no go at the first resume reduction stage.

  8. LadyL*

    Wow LW, although I agree with Allison I do have to say you are doing sooo much more than it would even occur to me to do to manage my household, let alone what I’m even capable of, and I completely see why you want to list it. I wish I could hire you to run my house!

    But yeah, I get why Allison is saying it won’t fly on your resume. Good luck LW, with your organization and tenacity I’m sure you’ll have no problem finding jobs, even without this on your resume.

    1. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I would bet, though, that you are doing many of these things! I mean, maybe not, of course, you know your own life. But what strikes me about the LW’s descriptions is that I do a lot of that too and I think many people do, perhaps with different methods, so this isn’t all that exceptional at the end of the day. I don’t have a babysitter, and the extent the LW has gone to as an employer is certainly impressive, but everything else is just… life, for a lot of us, just perhaps managed in a different way. The LW has an intranet for home? Well, the whiteboard calendar in the kitchen serves a similar function, as does the shopping list app I share with my partner and the texts reminders we send each other. Maybe I wouldn’t purchase expensive software to decorate my home, but I’m the person in my household who buys the decor and appliances and that’s just a normal part of life for some people, as is negotiating a lease (done it a few times), hiring contractors for cleaning or repairs, and keeping on top of bills and budgets.

      I don’t want to minimize the effort the LW puts in, because again, that’s impressive in its organization. I think by suggesting these things should go on a resume, the LW actually risks minimizing everyone else’s efforts, as if their way to manage a household is the ne plus ultra and deserves accolades and everyone else is just phoning in their household management.

      1. LadyL*

        Eh, three years ago I got my water shut off because I just sorta forgot to pay the bill for too many months in a row (for the record, you can skip paying for two months, it’s the third month they get ya ;) ).I am not organized or detail oriented in any way (and also I suffer from executive dysfunction) so LW’s commitment to that level of organization truly does impress me, and I can honestly say that I could never/would never be able to attain that.

        But I completely agree with both you and Allison that regardless if it’s more than the average person does it can’t go on a resume. And I also agree with your point that there are definitely ways to describe everyday tasks that make them sound extra when in reality they really are just everyday.

        1. Rusty Shackelford*

          Eh, three years ago I got my water shut off because I just sorta forgot to pay the bill for too many months in a row (for the record, you can skip paying for two months, it’s the third month they get ya ;)

          As a broke college student, I learned that you could put it off until you got the red bill. :D

          1. LadyL*

            So glad to hear I’m not the only one who has er, a lot of familiarity with the ins and outs of their local power company’s billing policies, haha!

            1. Sleepless*

              Oh, I’ve totally forgotten to pay the power bill until they shut it off. More than once. I’m a pretty organized, mature adult, but stuff does fall through the cracks once in awhile. In all seriousness, I’ve thought about getting Quickbooks for my household stuff, and I’ve been idly curious to know if anybody does.

              1. Clisby*

                No, but signing up for online banking was great for this kind of thing. I don’t have any bills set to be paid automatically – I have to put the date-t0-pay on each one; but still, all the regular accounts are listed, along with the last time I paid, so it’s easy to see what still needs to be paid.

              2. Helena1*

                Autopay/direct debit/whatever they call it locally.

                I have literally not paid a bill directly myself since I was about 18 and living in a house-share. Set up autopay when you sign up for the service, and the bills come out automatically on the same day every month. You just need to add up how much they all cost each month, and make sure that much is in the account the day before (or make sure your overdraft will cover it).

                Obviously if you are short of money and can’t pay your bills, that is a different issue. But if it is just forgetfulness about the date a bill falls due, autopay eliminates all that.

                1. NotAnotherManager!*

                  +1

                  We run our house of YNAB (bought in before the subscription price doubled), and it’s so easy and makes sure everyone’s in the loop on the budget and spending. We used Mint before, and it’s backward-looking, not forward-looking like YNAB.

                  I’m in charge of the budget and taxes at our house, and I can and have done it in Excel, Mint, MS Money – YNAB beats them all.

              4. HarvestKaleSlaw*

                I did this for over a year, but I am quitting. The software is just too expensive, and there are too many tiny transactions that you have to book. I keep falling behind by months and then spend my weekend trying to reconcile the petty cash from three months ago based on crinkled up bodega receipts.

                It was helpful for seeing some spending patterns, though.

                I’ve idly investigated Quicken and Mint and other personal finance applications, but I like to think of things in double-entry bookkeeping terms, and those apps are too idiot-proof for me. I’m the idiot who has a depreciation schedule for my kid’s iPad.

          2. Ellie*

            I once got a gas bill addressed to the resident, saying that it had come to their attention that I’d been using gas at the address for several years and never received a bill for it… I don’t know what happened, something fell through the cracks when we moved in I guess. Legally, they could only charge me up to a certain amount, which I paid, was not disconnected and all was fine. I just didn’t notice that I hadn’t been receiving any bills…

        2. Oof*

          I guess the bigger point here is – was your performance review at work tied to your water bill? I’m incredibly organized at work. My spreadsheets are things of beauty. I do none of that at home! :-D

          1. LadyL*

            I will say that my fellow housemates were definitely unhappy with my performance That quarter, that’s for damn sure ;)

          2. AnotherAlison*

            I find that interesting. My home behavior is a lot like my work behavior only I have no competent staff to do anything at home. I’ve made my college student sign a contract, I monitor everyone’s bank accounts, I make my own amortization spreadsheets, etc.

            I wouldn’t mind hearing about it from the OP in a lunch interview convo because I find many of the people in my line of work are over the top at home, but it would be weird on your resume. It might be a red flag if I found someone was only nerdy at work, ha!

              1. Helena1*

                I am not actually sure what people are even putting in these spreadsheets – I have online banking though, so maybe that replicates whatever other people are doing in excel.

                Household and personal finances are objectively very well run, but I don’t need a spreadsheet. I keep a notebook file to remind me of tax stuff, but that would make for a very small and rather pointless two-column excel file.

                1. AnotherAlison*

                  There are a lot of online calculators to do the stuff I do, but I like to make my own spreadsheets. I use online banking and have online access to all financial accounts, too.

                  An example is that I have my own spreadsheet to play with how quickly I could pay off my house based on my own assumptions of paying X more per month, and I can vary X. I also built my own spreadsheet to forecast my net worth at retirement. The commercial tools don’t let you play with all the variables.

                  I don’t actually look at budgeting much because I’m less interested in day-to-day vs. long-term.

                2. NotAnotherManager!*

                  We used to use Excel to manage our household budget, and that financial information exists across multiple online platforms and has to be aggregated somewhere. Every August/September (which my husband does jokingly call the “start of [my] fiscal year”), we’d sit down with an Excel of the prior year’s spending by category and figure out what to budget and what to cut in a spreadsheet that showed prior years’ spending and money available to be budgeted. I use YNAB as an aggregator and budget for this now with categories for home/utilities, cars/travel, kids, pets, consumables, savings goals (emergency, household, college, retirement), and for-fun stuff (gifts, entertainment, eating out).

                  I also use a spreadsheet to manage “reserve fund” planning for our house. I basically keep a running list of the major items in our home, their expected lifespan, the cost to replace, and how much needs to be saved each month to ensure, if the furnace dies tomorrow, that we won’t be freezing. This may not be necessary for newer homes, but a newer home in my area is $1M+, which I can’t afford, so I have to keep tabs on what in my mid-20th century home is going to need to be replaced and when. The roof was new when we moved in and has a very long projected lifespan; the HVAC is from the late 1990s and is already on borrowed time (though running well with fairly minor maintenance). It doesn’t predict everything (see dead fridge last year three years before projected replacement), but it’s helpful for long-term planning.

          3. SarahTheEntwife*

            Same here! I am a library cataloger; my job is literally organizing things. I can make absurdly-detailed shelf space analyses in Excel with conditional formatting so I can see at a glance where the tight spots are. But my personal life doesn’t neatly fall into LCSH subject headings, and my own personal books are organized based on mostly-subconscious categories of “when am I going to want this”.

            1. Mme Pince*

              Oh, gosh. This is me! I can catalog and organize materials, I have multiple budget and statistics spreadsheets, and I am prompt and finish my work on time, but my house usually looks like a tornado has just gone through it.

        3. Yorick*

          Yeah, but nowadays most utilities have an autopay feature, so it may not be any organization at all that allows someone to pay the bills on time.

      2. Count Boochie Flagrante*

        Yep. When I lived with two roommates, I was the one who did the monthly accounting of who paid what and who owes what to whom for all three of us. I’m a money person and I like numbers. That isn’t something I’d use on my resume when I could point to being the one tracking departmental reconciliation exceptions and getting those resolved. Similar skillset (frankly less complicated) but with a boss looking over my shoulder and metrics I needed to meet.

      3. MCMonkeyBean*

        Yeah some of this is way more organized than I could ever be, but some of it seems like overstating just normal life things which I understand when you’re in resume-writing mode. But like “buying, arranging and managing furniture and appliances” doesn’t really seem like an ongoing task? We all buy those things, and arrange them (though maybe with not as much thought as OP)… and what exactly does “managing” furniture and appliances mean?

    2. Mediamaven*

      It’s also possible this person is an incredible wordsmith in terms of articulating typical household activities. I do admire the skill.

      1. Legal Beagle*

        Seriously, they should apply for a copywriting job! This sounds very impressive (and it is admirable!) but when you dig into it, it’s essentially 1) paying bills, 2) arranging childcare, and 3) maintaining a house. These are things that almost all working parents have to do, and most do it with fewer adults and less money. The LW seems extremely organized and diligent, which is great, but a lot of it reads like puffing up the typical responsibilities of being a person.

      2. Extroverted Bean Counter*

        Yeah, I read it and was like “oh wow, the annoying, never-ending list of tasks that I have to do for my family sounds cool and impressive if you try to act like it’s a job.” But pooling incomes and allocating it to your partners’ individual accounts does not “doing payroll” make.

        1. Jules the 3rd*

          Mostly agree with you, but the ‘doing payroll’ is about their 20hr/week babysitter (aka part-time nanny), and hiring a payroll company to manage the babysitter’s withholdings, which is a step beyond most households. It’s still not professional HR, but it’s closer than most.

          1. Extroverted Bean Counter*

            It was actually very specifically not about the babysitter – the parenthetical was:

            “pay bills and payroll (each household member has a personal bank account separate from the household accounts and gets a weekly allowance)”

            They later mention the babysitter, and the fact that they hired a payroll company. Which means they are not doing payroll.

            2. SarahTheEntwife*

              Yep. That is more bank accounts to keep track of than some people, but unless they’re carefully analyzing the budget each week and allocating personal allowances accordingly, I do the same splitting up of percentages between my checking and savings account with each paycheck.

          3. Jules the 3rd*

            oh, wow, yeah, I missed that part. That’s… um. Suddenly the vitriol towards OP is making more sense. I would be livid if my partner used these terms about our financial system.

            1. Extroverted Bean Counter*

              I’m sympathetic to OP, I really am even if my other comments in this thread might not demonstrate that. I think they’re feeling like their current position isn’t good enough for where they want to transition to, but know they’d be a knockout in a different field because of their Type-A tendencies and demonstrated organization and skills in their personal life, if only potential employers could know about those. I was in a similar position several years ago trying to transition out of a recession-necessitated bartending career into something more stable and with more potential (I chose accounting, aka bean counting). I knew I was smart and capable, savvy and good at that kind of detailed and principles-based work, but I had no tangible experience to point to on a resume.

              But the entire letter is just so tone-deaf. Inflating “transferring money between accounts” to doing payroll, finding a rental house and talking to the landlord every year about not raising rent to be some kind of negotiating skills or facilities management… it’s too much. It’s just daily life, not a resume builder as much as we all wish they could be.

        2. Observer*

          Seriously. If you think that allocating allowances, which this essentially is, is like doing payroll, you obviously don’t know anything about running payroll.

          I do NOT do payroll at my job, but I know enough about what’s involved that if I saw that on a resume, I’d probably chuck the resume. This goes beyond misunderstanding workplace norms or not having external accountability. This is about completely not understanding the job.

      3. Veronica Mars*

        Yes, exactly. What struck me about this is how HARD they managed to make some relatively easy tasks sound. I was downright shocked when I got to the part about how all of the hiring of maintenance and such was for a rented home. I thought for sure, the way they’d led up to it, they’d coordinated a million dollar remodel.

        And that’s my big issue here. There’s two ways to interpret this list 1) LW takes even the simplest, easiest mole-hill tasks and makes them into giant mountains which require significant investment and effort (really not a positive personality trait for an employee). Or 2) LW is spending far too much time wordsmithing to cover up for a fundamental lack of applicable skills, and now I have to spend time reverse-engineering the words to understand what they actually do.
        …neither option makes me want to hire them.

        1. Dezzi*

          Came here to say this. Someone who sent me a resume like this most likely wouldn’t even get an interview, because they sound incredibly dramatic and pedantic, and I don’t want that in my department. They “use professional architectural software to plan our interior design and am in charge of purchasing, arranging, and maintaining our furniture and appliances”? None of that needs professional software! None of the tasks you’re talking about need the level of intensive work you’re telling me you apply to them, and that tells me that you’re probably a giant pain to work with.

          1. Temperance*

            I felt uncomfortable with a lot of their descriptions of their work. Being “in charge of furniture and appliances” … yikes. The part about lease negotiations was cringe, too.

          2. AKchic*

            Right?
            Sims allows you to create your own floorplans and furniture so you can rearrange and organize to figure out your actual house via Sims before you do it in real life (I learned that over the weekend).

            The majority of people do not have access to “professional architectural software”, nor do they have the money for it. On top of that, most people aren’t rearranging their furniture, changing up their interior decorating and all that stuff to actually *need* professional-grade software. Some of us are lucky if we manage to get matching pillow cases on the bed some weeks because we’re just too dang tired to care after changing the bedding, and hey, at least the teenager put a pillowcase *on* his pillows for once, so we’re not going to quibble over the fact that he took some from your matched sheet/comforter set. Picking our battles means not worrying about matching bed sets.

            1. Julia*

              I was wondering if someone would bring up the Sims. Maybe I can put “architectural and interior design skills” on my resume now – been playing since the Sims 2 after all!
              I actually had a sort of semi-professional home building software once in the days of Windows 1995, and used that to build houses for my story characters, but since I’m not a trained architect, I had no idea about load-bearing walls and proportions – and I think the same goes for a lot of the Sims community.

        2. Observerette*

          I think this is how most people approach most resumes, so I wouldn’t read too much into their personality based on the wordsmithing. Resume talk is real and I’ve caught myself doing it from time to time. I think it just shows the OP put a little thought into this before writing in. Actually, I think this list shows they should but in for a performance bonus (in the form of presents from their housemates…)

          1. LadyL*

            Depends on the city ordinances. I lived in a city where rentals weren’t required to have a lot of the usually standard major appliances (stoves! fridges! washers and dryers!) so it was totally normal for renters to buy their own stoves and washers and such and then take them with them when they moved.

          2. nonegiven*

            I’ve never rented a house that had appliances included, besides the water heater and furnace, and one didn’t have the furnace.

          3. Wren*

            In Australia it’s fairly standard to have to buy your washer, drier, and fridge in a rental home. Stoves are included, and a dishwasher if that’s already there, but that’s about it.

        4. Helena1*

          I had missed that it was a rental too. So the “coordinating contractors” is… staying home one morning to let the plumber in? Um.

      4. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

        Yes! I was ‘wowed’ (no joke) by the way the OP had worded all of this! (Have they considered a switch to PR or similar?!)

      5. Atalanta0jess*

        This is my main thought. My partner does a kick butt job managing our bills, with incredible detail, and has us doing really well financially (and we definitely don’t make 250K) and I’m sure you could describe it this way, but….

        I will say I’m glad he doesn’t think he’s my CEO. That’s not really the relationship I signed up for.

        1. nonegiven*

          The $250k sounds impressive, but they have 3 adults working, so that is an average of a little over $83k each. They may have more disparate earnings among them with one or two making 6 figures. The average is a good income but one or more of them may or may not necessarily be highly compensated.

          OP is “looking to move out of arts/media, where I’m currently director of a small department, and into business operations.” They may not make a lot of money, themselves, or manage more than one employee at work and so not have a lot of business operations experience to put on a resume.

    3. ele4phant*

      I had somewhat of an opposite reaction. I thought the LW was doing so much more than they needed to be.

      In my opinion, some of what they say their doing is overkill for what needs to get accomplished. The amount of effort they say they are putting in for some of these things doesn’t justify the outcome. You can get to the same place with less work on some of these.

      I guess what that’s really saying is that running a household is subjective and what you want to do at home might not be what I would do.

      But if I were looking at someone’s resume and they were telling me about all these things they did at home that struck me as unnecessary, I’d go “Whoa – some of this strikes me as unnecessary for the task at hand. Do they have a regular tendency to over-complicated *everything*? At work, are they going to have the right judgement to know what the most efficient, right solution is for simple problems, or are they going to try to redesign the mousetrap for every gosh darn thing?”

  9. Harvey 6-3.5*

    While Alison is almost certainly correct, and I wouldn’t include this material on a resume, I think the potential employer might slightly impact the relevance. If you are applying to a really small company, where the owner is one of a very few employees, maybe you could work in how organized you are or the debt reduction into the interview, if those seem useful or relevant skills. But if you are applying to any company of any size, don’t do it.

    1. Joielle*

      Yeah, the only time it could MAYBE be slightly relevant is if the job is a wears-all-the-hats position at a very small business. I still wouldn’t put it on a resume, but I might mention it in an interview if there’s a question specifically about managing lots of different tasks or taking on new tasks when needed. And even then, I wouldn’t use it as the only example!

      1. londonedit*

        I agree. I think if an interviewer asked a ‘Tell me about a time when you implemented a new system, and how that worked’ sort of question, OP could feasibly first mention something concrete to do with work, and then as an aside, add on a lighthearted ‘In fact, I have to admit that I’m so obsessed with spreadsheets that I even use them in my personal life – I’ve got a system for everything and it’s totally revolutionised my family’s lives’. But no more than that.

    2. Mayflower*

      So, I *am* the owner of that small company, and while I am duly impressed with OP’s organizational skills, I am not convinced that it’s applicable to me as an employer. As a company owner I am always conscious of not becoming the cliche family business where the lines between personal and professional are blurred. My 5 employees and I have developed a level of personal closeness that naturally flows from being a tiny company, and yet I am careful to remember that at the end of the day they are employees, not friends, and their motivations are ultimately centered around themselves and their families. So with OP, I would be simultaneously impressed with how they handle their personal projects *and* think that it has very little to do with how inclined they would be to apply these same skills in a job.

      (I am a generally conscientious and capable person and yet I remember several times when I ended up applying very little of myself while working for certain sh*tty companies or bosses).

    3. Temperance*

      I don’t think so. From the description of their work, it sounds like they’re inflating routine household tasks and doing far more than is actually necessary for basic life management things. Like, “supervising household staff” and “running household staff meetings” just sounds so pretentious. I would assume that this person was going to make everything a huge, complex process.

    4. It's a Yes From Me*

      I agree. I’m about to hire a personal assistant / household manager for someone in the entertainment industry, and the OP’s summary sounds exactly like the type of person I want to hire!

    1. pope suburban*

      Yeah, I was a bit nonplussed by all this, simply because it struck me as fairly routine life maintenance for an adult. I do the same things, minus hiring a babysitter (and, having run payroll at several companies, I would not consider paying the sitter to be “payroll;” I worry that couching it that way would undermine OP’s credibility and skills), and it’s never occurred to me to put any of it on a resume.

      1. EventPlannerGal*

        I think it really would undermine their other experience. I get that OP is doing a cutesy spin on ordinary tasks, but if I saw this on a CV alongside their actual work history it would really cast the whole thing into doubt – like, if I see that OP describes paying their babysitter and distributing allowances as “payroll”, and then they also say that at Actual Job they did “payroll”, what does that mean? Have they ever actually done anything that our accounts department would recognise as payroll, or are they talking about, idk, keeping track of the tea kitty or something? If they’re spinning very ordinary household management this hard, what else are they spinning?

    2. Laura H.*

      … I’m gonna argue some of them are resume skills, but the context is NOT a resume context. It’s the context, not the skills themselves.

      Also heck, there are adults who can’t do this stuff to that degree (or any degree) and these aren’t skills that are granted by myosis at age 18.

      1. Laura H.*

        It’s also the jobseeker’s task to prune their resume, and while LW may have been hoping for the answer opposite of what was given, at least it was asked!

        (I get somewhat off topic here, if deleted, I’ll just repost the first para and the following question.)

        Who hasn’t wondered if skills are transferable and how far one can reasonably argue it??! Tone is hard to gauge correctly in comments, but I feel sorta insulted and belittled. (Not personally but as a general read on some of this post’s comments.) We’ve all had questions like this one and while a little bluntness is fine, there is a line.

        1. Jules the 3rd*

          I don’t like a lot of the tone here today, yeah (the OP deserves better than they’re getting), but: none of it is transferable to most jobs, professional household manager / housekeeper excepted.
          – No accountability / assessment of how effective their work was (ie, did they get a good repairperson? Who knows!)
          – The accomplishments are at best on par with what you’d expect for that income level
          – The level of rigor needed for doing this at home is not the same as doing it for work.

          I get it, I use spreadsheets for my house (though I’ve cut down on it a lot with automated bill pay), but it’s just not the same. Even 3mo of detailed grocery lists is not the same as 3mo department spend.

      2. Quill*

        Or by 25, when I learned the hard way that you had to purchase a sticker for your car every year and it wasn’t like… posted anywhere? A thing people talked about like they talk about tax season? Something that the DMV would automatically mail you a bill for?

        Anyway not having current registration (6 months out of date and counting) will get you a ticket because the sheriff will refuse to believe that you wouldn’t have known that was a thing that people have to do when they own a car.

        1. RobotWithHumanHair*

          Ha, that reminds me of when I moved from Michigan to New Jersey and knew nothing of vehicle inspections. My inspection sticker ended up a year out of date and I only found out about it when the guy replacing my tires let me know.

          Oops.

        2. Heather*

          Where do you live that the DMV doesn’t mail you a registration bill every year? I honestly thought that was universal.

          1. Quill*

            It’s possible that the letter was mailed but didn’t make it to me, due to moving around & the fact that there was some wonky information I got when I bought it that it wouldn’t need an “emissions registration” because it was new, which I thought was the same thing.

          2. Chinookwind*

            In Alberta, they stopped mailing the annual reminder notice out a couple of years ago but didn’t bother to let anyone know. No press release, no email blast to anyone outside of Registries, nothing. I only learned about this because DH, a cop, mentioned how he was suddenly pulling over people with out of date tags who were mortified to find out they were lapsed and said they never got a reminder (Which is a different response then he usually got).

          3. Clisby*

            I was wondering that too – I’m in SC, but of course it could be different in other states. For one thing, I can’t renew my registration until I pay the personal property tax on my car, so the county has a vested interest in making sure I get that bill/notice.

        3. MCMonkeyBean*

          Your DMV doesn’t automatically mail you a bill? In NC they merged the tax and registration process a while ago and now we get one thing in the mail reminding us about both. I think that happened before I ever became responsible for that stuff myself so I’m really not sure how it worked before. But it does seem pretty weird if the DMV doesn’t remind you to update your registration!

          1. Elitist Semicolon*

            In my state, the renewal postcards apparently get lost in the mail all the time. The DMV knows this – I asked the year I didn’t realize I hadn’t gotten my card and ended up driving with plates that were 11 months expired, and the rep said something like 25% of them get lost on the way. Despite knowing that a good portion of vehicle owners don’t get their card, the DMV doesn’t send a second reminder or a warning; they just assume drivers will remember every year that they need to renew their plates. After ~$300 ($100 retroactive registration for the year the plates were expired, $100 for the current year, and $100 fine for driving with expired plates), I set up a yearly calendar alert and keep a close eye on the mail that month.

            1. Quill*

              That could also be the issue. Also, that was the year of the mailbox hooligans so my poscard might have ended up in the litter woods with all their other misdeeds.

        5. Gumby*

          Mechanic to me when I was getting an oil change: The tires need replacing. You didn’t rotate them.
          Me (in my head)(thank goodness): Don’t they rotate when you drive? That is the whole way that they work!
          Me (out loud): Okay.
          Me (to my dad later on): What’s the deal about rotating tires?

          I mean, it seems obvious now, but no one told me this was a thing.

        6. Brock*

          At 26 I had no idea how licence plates really worked. I sold a car for scrap, and when they gave me back the licence plates I had no idea why, or what to do with them. I was leaving the country, so I just threw them away. A few years later, although I was still out of the country, I thought it would be good to keep my old-country licence current, but when I tried to renew by mail, I was shocked to get a response saying, “sorry, you have still have a car/plates registered without insurance and the fines are $$$$$$.”

    3. mayfly*

      Yes. By way of comparison, my husband and I both work, have three kids and manage to run a household, so one less adult and two more minor kids than the LW. I would not be impressed seeing this on a resume.
      Imagine that the hiring manger is a single parent of small kids.

    4. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      I’m impressed with the way it’s been worded but in plain language it boils down to something like:

      Create budget and track it
      Pay bills on time and transfer money between housemates’ accounts
      Keep track of health insurance paperwork to make sure they submit all of it in order to get reimbursed
      Created a bank account and put money in it for paying the babysitter
      Haggle with customer service rep at bank about fee terms etc
      Basic “employee management” tasks of babysitter
      Find and select tradespeople and advisers
      Searched property sites for available rentals (probably) and haggled over the rent
      Plan out interior decor etc, buy and move around appliances etc
      Oversee work of contractors when they work in the house (hmmm, I wonder if the OP closely supervises them and what that must be like!)

      As others have said – this is mostly basic stuff you do when you have a household! Maybe not the interior design software (I’m a doofus with stuff like that so I just draw them out on paper when it’s needed) and I have never had to hire/employ a babysitter, but the rest of the stuff…

      1. Extroverted Bean Counter*

        My husband and I co-own an actual business and are required to have annual shareholder meetings, as written into our bylaws. They happen on the third Sunday of January and involve one of us saying “good year, eh?” and the other one yelling from the kitchen to stop burning eggs onto the bottom of our good pans.

        1. Rusty Shackelford*

          I knew someone who was a shareholder in the small business her husband owned. I think her daughter and son-in-law were shareholders too. I do know that their annual shareholders meeting was held in conjunction with a college bowl game, which means the entire trip was probably tax-deductible. :-/

        2. Koala dreams*

          At least you are two people. I sometimes write meeting minutes for clients where one person owns the company and still need to have a shareholder “meeting”. It feels so pointless to me.

      2. CA in CA*

        Yeeaah, I mean I get that every family dynamic is different but I can’t imagine my child living in a house like this and it not making for some interesting conversations with teachers.

      3. DarnTheMan*

        I apparently told several teachers in all earnestness that my parents were benevolent dictators when I was about 5 (in my own defence, that was what they always referred to their parenting strategy as.)

          1. Working for yarn*

            Good thing I wasn’t drinking anything while reading this … that was awesome! I could totally see my (almost) 5 year old doing this. Makes me almost want to start referring to my husband and mine parenting strategy as benevolent dictators (way better than benign)!

            1. SamKD*

              We told the kids at various times “…you seem to have the mistaken idea this house is a democracy. It’s a benevolent dictatorship and you’re starting to piss off the dictator.”

                1. Julia*

                  That sounds damaging. I always hated when my parents pulled the “this is my house, so your room isn’t yours” card and didn’t allow me to close or lock the door for privacy.

            2. DarnTheMan*

              I have no idea how they came up with it but my mom always used it to sum up her parenting attitude of “you have every right to question our decisions, but as the parents we also have every right to tell you yes it’s unfair but the answer’s still no.”

        1. Former Admin turned Project Manager*

          I once sent a text to a colleague while I was working from home with a picture of the contended dogs and an explanation of how the canine leadership had expressed their approval of my work on the Pumpkin Kong project.

    2. Personal Best In Consecutive Days Lived*

      Family meeting. “What does everyone want for dinner this week?” “Anyone struggling with something?” Maybe the sitter’s input is included too.
      My parents did this every Sunday, mainly for menu planning purposes. Great way to have a family check in..

      1. Aquawoman*

        Yep, I’m a fan of family meetings. Or sometimes meetings with just my husband and me that we refer to as “executive committee” meetings, but only jokingly, I swear! If my kids were staff, I’d have had to fire them all.

        1. 'Tis Me*

          Considering your children as staff only works if you treat e.g. “Throwing things on the floor” as part of a toddler’s regular duties, and “Extensive procrastination” as a task the 5 year old needs to complete every morning before school…

          These things are age appropriate behaviours even though they’re also frustrating and counterproductive and not things you would choose to pay somebody to do were you paying your family as if they were staff and trying to run your home efficiently… But that’s children!

    3. Lilo*

      It’s not great phrasing either because it invites the question of whether you know how to differentiate between professional and personal meetings too.

    4. Heidi*

      This part of the description also struck a negative chord with me. Talking with your family is not comparable to staff meetings unless performance is being judged and loss of employment is a possible outcome of failing to meet goals. Plus, I think referring to your family as your staff and might come across as either oddly formal (I mean, who calls their kids and partners their “staff?”) or cutesy (like how someone would call their toddler an artist-in-residence).

    5. CL Cox*

      Probably all sit down once a week to go over schedules and make sure everything’s covered, the child is being transported where they need to go, etc.

    6. kittymommy*

      I can imagine it referring everything from actual staff meeting (??) to Sunday night dinner with the family.

      1. Heidi*

        My dad called two family meetings ever – one to show everyone how to use the new microwave and one to decide on a name for our sister. Not sure why we never had another one. Maybe he figured we’d covered all the important business.

        1. Veronica Mars*

          hahaha love this.

          Yes, we had regular family meetings. That’s not the issue. Referring to them as staff meetings is.

    7. Mystery Bookworm*

      My partner and I have a regular “family meeting” on Tuesdays. We eat something easy (or delivery) and look over the calender, coordinate stuff for the kid and the pet and household needs. That sort of thing.

      I think most families do that stuff ad hoc, but I know others that do it the way we do!

    8. Senor Montoya*

      My mom and dad used to have a monthly budget meeting. And a family meeting is a Thing, although maybe it’s just a 1970s Thing — where you talk about expectations, discuss issues, solve problems. Obviously family members are not “staff”, but the topics can be similar to those in a work staff meeting.

      I do agree that the context (family/home) is not appropriate for a work resume or cover letter..

      In a way, it’s a shame that it’s not appropriate, because after all they are important skills (just because many people have/use them does not make them un-noteworthy) and many people are NOT competent at them. And I imagine that stay-at-home parents (which generally means women) may not have other contexts in which they have demonstrated these skills and accomplishments.

      1. Observer*

        The thing is that the whole dynamic is totally different. When I’m in a staff meeting with my boss, they can pull rank on me – my spouse can’t (at least not in a healthy relationship.) I can talk to my children and spouse in different ways that I can talk to my staff and colleagues and vice versa. The history and and (presumed) endpoints are different. My coworker and I may not care about each other’s interest – probably don’t to the extent that one expects of spouses, parents and children. (eg I’m going to take a promotion without worrying about the career progression of my coworker, even if I like them, but I am going to think about how it might affect my spouse’s career. etc.)

        That’s one of the things that makes this seem so very odd. And the failure to see the very real differences really do raise significant questions.

    9. CatCat*

      So the “staff” are the members of the family? I kept re-reading the letter trying to figure out if there were more employees than the sitter or something else I was missing here.

      I would find it shocking if someone talking to me in *any* context, let alone on a job interview or communicating something on a resume, referred to their family as “staff.” I mean, at work, are your staff also your “family”? So odd.

      1. Heidi*

        I assumed that the staff referred to the family. I mean, if there were a valet and a scullery maid or whoever, wouldn’t they be in the section with the sitter?

      2. Grace*

        I was assuming she meant the nanny, housekeeper, cook, and maybe the lawn person. Surely she doesn’t mean her family, that would be awful.

        1. Yorick*

          But I think the only “staff” is the nanny. So maybe they mean a meeting with her? But even then, it’s silly.

      3. TechWorker*

        Honestly, I read it as LW basically going as far as possible to compare their home life to a professional setting (so there’s an implicit ‘we have (something like) a staff meeting’ rather than they actually refer to their family as staff.

        But who knows :)

    10. Librarian1*

      Even if a family meeting is similar to a staff meeting in terms of what gets discussed, it’s not a staff meeting because people are family members, so the relationships and power relations are totally different.

      1. Jaydee*

        Right. I want to have family meetings, and some of it wouldn’t be totally different from a team meeting at work. Planning dinners from the week, coordinating schedules, assigning chores and errands, checking on the status of homework or tasks from the previous week.

        A key difference is that I can’t put my husband on a PIP if he makes insufficient progress on cleaning out the garage, and I can’t fire my kid if he whines about having tacos for dinner on Tuesday even though HE AGREED TO IT ON SUNDAY!!!

    11. snoopythedog*

      Gosh. Technically we have them too, then.

      Our weekly ‘what has to get done, what do we have on’ check in and our monthly ‘how did we do on our budget’ meeting. The first is usually on Sunday, the second happens with a bottle of wine.

      LW does have an amazing skill of writing things at a business or high level, I’ll give them that!

    12. ThisColumnMakesMeGratefulForMyBoss*

      This letter confused me. They mention a job, but everything described pertains to the household. So are they referring to their running of the household as their job, or do they also work outside of the home for a small company? Everything described is stuff my husband and I do in addition to both having full time jobs outside of the home, so I’m unsure of how this is a bigger deal than what most adults with kids handle every day life, whether they work outside the home or not.

  12. Secret Squirrel*

    “Running a household” is what adults do so our families aren’t homeless or starving. It’s not a work accomplishment. If your resume came across my desk it would go into my “NO” pile as soon as I regained control over my eyes rolling back into my head.

    What aspects of “running a household” can you translate to your current job? That’s how I would fit those skills into my resume.

      1. Daisy*

        Yeah, I’m single, much poorer and I do most of this stuff. If I had *two* extra people cooking and shopping for me and $250,000 a year to play with, sure, I’ll use architectural design software on the living room, why the hell not?

          1. kittymommy*

            Thank you for putting this into words. I couldn’t figure out why this letter was leaving me with such a bad taste in my mouth (and trying to re-wrap it in my head) but this is it. 3 adults, 1 child, and a quarter of a million dollars in yearly income. Wow.

            2. remizidae*

              I’m sensing a lot of class rage here! $250k for 3 people is only about $80k each. Yes, that’s more than some people make, but…what’s wrong with that? People who make more money than you are not doing anything wrong.

              1. MissGirl*

                It’s not wrong at all! It’s that running a single household on 250k is not impressive. Most people are doing it on less. A resume needs to impress and what the OP is doing is what an average adult is already doing.

              2. Cat*

                That’s not how economies of scale work. Four oriole living on $250k are much better off than one person living on a quarter of that (though that person is likely also doing ok). It’s not wrong to make a good income but it’s also not a complication in you life ot manage it. It’s a privilege.

              3. anonymous 5*

                Making more money is not doing anything wrong. Claiming that the things that they’re able to do by virtue of having that level of income are instead by virtue of some unusual degree of talent or skill is definitely doing something wrong.

                2. Hiring Mgr*

                  I think it’s a stretch to say the OP did that. Compared to the world, 95%+ of commenters here are beyond wealthy so…

              4. Gazebo Slayer*

                But OP is pointing to it as if it makes them so much better and more capable than everyone else, at the same time that they’re acting as if living on $250k and paying all the bills on it is soooo hard. That combination makes it really offputting.

                1. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

                  Aside from discussions about privilege (which are real) I got the sense the OP referenced the $250k in the spirit of “managing a departmental budget in the order of $250k” rather than that it’s difficult to live on that amount and needs careful coordination.

                  Maybe I’m the only one who read it that way, hmm.

                2. Observer*

                  @Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)

                  I read it that way too. But it’s just wrong. And the comparison is off-putting for the very fundamental reason that running a household of 4 (including 3 adults) on that kind of budget is far simpler than running an department with that kind of budget. In a household, the extra money generally bring more help than complication, whereas in a work environment the extra money comes with extra complexity and responsibility.

                3. EventPlannerGal*

                  @Observer – I agree. And when you say “I manage a departmental budget in the order of $250k” what that actually means is that you have to account for and responsibly manage $250k that *is not yours*. Managing it well might lead to bonuses or raises for you down the line, but it’s not your money, it’s the company’s money, and the size of the budget that you manage doesn’t necessarily reflect anything about your personal life. The OP talking about their family income will inevitably come across differently because a) it’s their own personal money, b) it’s a lot of money and c) they’re choosing to bring up the money in a context where it really has no place.

                4. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

                  Oh I agree that it’s a wrong analogy! I was just saying this in contrast to a few people who seemed to think that “managing $250k is difficult and requires special household management skills” is a show of relative wealth, rather than an attempt to translate it into business language.

              5. Anonymous Poster*

                Making money isn’t doing something wrong. Managing fairly normal responsibilities for people at that income level, though, isn’t something you put on your resume.

              6. TechWorker*

                Other than laughing at the phrase ‘class rage’ I don’t think jealousy is what’s going on here.

                The ‘household budget’ is included sort of as a point to impress – and yeah, in a professional capacity being responsible for a larger budget generally means ‘having more responsibility’ and ‘having higher expectations on outcomes’. In terms of a family though, your level of responsibility* or amount of stuff you have to pay for doesn’t go up with a higher budget, your life just gets easier. So it comes across as a bizarre detail to include.

                *okay, there is probably a level of extreme rich where you feel some responsibility for spending your money the ‘right’ way, but 250k is not it anyway.

                1. Willis*

                  Yeah, this. Managing a household budget is not really the same as a business budget, so it doesn’t really get more impressive if it’s $50K or $250K. (And actually seems like it would be more difficult with less, but still not the same as running a business and doesn’t go on a resume.)

                  Sorry but some of this stuff would just be so silly to try and pass off as resume worthy. Buying and arranging furniture?

              7. The amount is important*

                There’s nothing wrong with it per se but citing that you manage a budget and “paid down debt” with a collective income of a quarter million dollars a year isn’t what I’d call particularly noteworthy.

                Also, 80k/year is more than *a lot* of people make…times 3. All this says to me is ‘I pay my bills’ which…we all do.

                1. Mia*

                  Yeah, my household income is under $80k and we manage to do everything the OP does, minus the babysitter. A lot of people handle the minutiae of life/household maintenance without the benefit of extra funds.

              8. Mia*

                It’s less “class rage” — which, lol — and more about the fact that virtually any task is easier when you have more resources to allocate to it. Like, paying bills on time, getting out of debt, and boosting your/your partner(s) credit score aren’t really that impressive when you have a great deal of money to do all those things with.

                1. Ethyl*

                  Right?! And like….. Being in a position to even worry about your credit score is already immensely privileged!

                2. Falling Diphthong*

                  Not bouncing the check to the nanny. That’s just… not an accomplishment worthy of note.

              9. Observer*

                Noting is wrong with having that much money. Nor with using it well, being detail oriented etc.

                What’s really off base here is that managing to “reduce debt” (after getting into debt and blowing up the credit scores of 2 out or 3 adults in the household) is not exactly a major accomplishment, given that lots of people manage to stay pout of debt with a far, far lower income. And that running a household with three presumably competent adults and one child is generally far, far easier than if you changed the ratios or added children, etc. ESPECIALLY when you have this much money.

                It’s kind of like the kid who is discovering their hands and feet. In a one year old, it’s adorable and part of their normal development. In an adult, it raises the question of just how insulated one is to not realize that what they are doing is really, really not remarkable. Like affluenza levels of privilege.

          2. GothicBee*

            True. It reminds me of those “I paid off $150k in debt in 3 years” articles where they never actually mention that their combined salary is something like $250k per year. At which point it’s like, and it still took you 3 years??? I always want to invite these people to try implementing these skills while only making like $35k per year (which is more than I make right now). Or try running a household of 2 adults, 3 kids on only $40k per year which is what my parents did throughout the early to mid 2000s.

            1. Lilo*

              Or those articles about people who bought houses in their 20s and you can and should do it too! (Except for the minor fact that their parents paid the down payment).

            2. Middle Child*

              And you can’t have Netflix, cable, a cell phone or go out to eat ever because you’re in debt and don’t deserve anything nice! /s

              (Single person making under $40,000 a year here. I am trying to get out of debt but it is not as easy as it’s made out to be on those pretty Instagram photos with letter signs.)

              1. Veronica Mars*

                If I had a dollar for everyone who ever suggested I just simply cut back on Starbucks to pay off my $200k in student loans faster (and a bonus dollar for everyone who texted such advise to me via their latest generation iPhone while clad head to toe in Lululemon)…. I might actually have paid off my student loans by now.
                POOR PEOPLE DESERVE CAFFEINE TOO
                /rant

                1. Aquawoman*

                  Just because this is the sort of Thing I Do ™, I calculated that at $5 per drink, 2 drinks a day, it would take you 55 years to pay off the $200k, not accounting for interest. So at one per day, 110 years.

                2. Middle Child*

                  Right? The last time I had Starbucks was last month. It is not an every week or every day trip for me. My old boss gave me a Starbucks card because he doesn’t drink coffee and I load it up every so often.

                  I am considering a debt consolidation loan for my credit cards. I am aware of the downsides but for me there are some positive (most of the cards I don’t use anymore, credit score in the 680s, I do use YNAB) sides. It would be nice to feel like I got a fresh start and not have my stupidity and years where I could only land $10-$13 an hour jobs hanging over for me forever.

                3. Veronica Mars*

                  Haha Aquawoman, can we be friends?

                  Middle Child – as someone who’s been on this journey a while, I’ve found that the thing you can actually achieve is always better than the theoretically-perfect-maximum-money-saving-thing. I ended up paying off a lower interest loan before a higher interest one. The higher interest one is going to take a few years, but I was able to pay off the lower interest one after after 6 months of hard work, and it felt really really good to get to stop writing that fourth check every month. Do what makes this thing suck less for you.

                  Which gets back to my Starbucks thing. One $5 drink a day is the difference between “absolutely loath everything for the next 15 years” and “loathe things a little less for the next 16”. I’ll take the extra year to get some life enjoyment before I’m retirement age.

              2. Anon for the moment*

                I did this. It took me 5 years to pay it all off, but I was you. Same income level too. It can be done, but it is brutal.

          3. Anonymous Poster*

            It seemed like they were considering standard upper-middle-class responsibilities to be a job. And no, hon, hiring people to work within your home isn’t a job; it’s just an everyday adult task that takes some effort to do right. I’ve been the worker in that scenario.

            You have real responsibilities and achievements at your real job. Stick to those.

          4. Lucette Kensack*

            This is a genuine question, not a snarky one: Why? Are you put off by the existence of someone with a household income of $250k? Or is there something else that’s bothering you about this?

            1. Cat*

              Honestly, we’re living in an increasingly stratified society where huge numbers of people are living paycheck to paycheck and being driven into bankruptcy by things like medical bills. It shouldn’t be surprising that someone who mentions a top 5% income in such a way as to suggest it makes their life MORE complicated, not less, is going to receive resentment. That’s quite natural.

            2. Yorick*

              It’s not about the money. It’s that managing a household with that amount is easy. They pretty much don’t have to worry about the bills – not living paycheck to paycheck, so can pay it any time. Hell, they can afford the late fee if they forget this month! They’ve got plenty of money to pay down the debt, so there’s no real urgency about making a plan for it. They can afford to prepay the bank account that you pay the nanny from – not much organization needed to figure out how to always pay her on time. Et cetera. But they talk like they’ve made a huge accomplishment by paying the bills on time, reducing the debt, paying the nanny, etc.

            3. Leela*

              I think the issue is when those people write articles or talk down to people making far less, acting like if they’d only do what *I* did, you’d be out of debt! But the reason they’re out of debt (or have a house, or get to travel all the time, or whatever), is because of the extra money that one usually has access to for reasons like good connections through your parents or other factors and not because you have good advice that would ever work for the people you’re giving it too. It’s very insulting having someone act like the reason they’re better off is that you’re just too stupid to do what they did without them telling you when income inequality and everything that goes along with it are the real reason

              1. Middle Child*

                This is exactly it for me. Yes, I just cut my Netflix. Yes I made a budget (and got YNAB to extend my free trial). Yes I cut a couple other costs and yes I want to pay down debt and even have a seasonal side job. But the fact remains that I can’t accomplish everything on less than $40,000 a year while still doing everything in my apartment by myself and having to save up for filling an oil heat tank. (My landlord does pay the bill but I have to pay her back, and she is flexible but it still sucks!) And oh yeah, I do also want to switch to a career with better earning potential and prospects but that won’t happen tomorrow either! It sucks being talked down to about everything you’re doing wrong when we’re just all trying our best.

            4. Mia*

              The issue isn’t that OP makes good money, but that they seem to think the things they’re “accomplishing” come naturally to them by sheer virtue of their skills, rather than recognizing that having a bigger budget than most folks gives them an inherent advantage, which it 1000% does. If anything, I think pulling off all this stuff would be really impressive for like, a single parent making $50k a year, because at least then it would demonstrate some critical thinking and problem solving skills.

            5. DyneinWalking*

              Speaking as someone who IS privileged – not rich, but definitely better off – the financial buffer I got from having been raised by solid middle-class parents means that I can be kinda lazy about money. Not that I can spend frivolously, but I never really needed a budget because if I ever spent a bit more than I got per month, I could buffer that with savings. Didn’t open my letters for a while and missed a late bill? Sucks, and I’ll spend some time being mad at myself, but it’s not a huge problem and I can pay it right away. Laptop’s broken and I need a new one? Eh, so long as that doesn’t happen every year I can afford it.

              Having worked yourself up to a point where you earn a lot of money IS an accomplishment (at least in many cases), but making you private budget with a comfortable amount of money is not. If you make only very little money, correct budgeting, thrifty spending and smart saving of what little you’ve got left over (if at all) is vital and you’re in serious trouble if you mess up. But when you have enough money left over, you can afford mistakes and are spared tough decisions where you have to take care of two urgent problems but only have the money to solve one. I reckon there’s a number of people here who had to decide between getting prescription medicine or getting their car repaired which they need to get to work to make money……. so I get why OP is getting a lot of flack for this. The stakes of OP’s budgeting and organization are a lot lower than for many other people, and they don’t really seem to realize that in their letter.

              1. DyneinWalking*

                I’d like to add that I’m in no way saying that OP is that lazy and inefficient with money – just that they could AFFORD it. So without seeing all the numbers, there’s no way for people to gauge whether OP is really amazing with their budgeting, or whether occasional bad financial decisions are simply being covered by their combined income.

              3. Anonymous at a University*

                This is a really good point, yes. If they do sometimes make mistakes with spreadsheets (not saying they do), then probably the other adults in the household are not going to make a huge fuss about it. If they were running payroll for a business and were late or made a mistake, you better bet there would be lots of pissed-off people. It’s not just the lack of skills in a professional vs. personal setting that would be a problem, but the relationship they’d have with the people affected and the impact on them.

                I know the OP really, really wants to be a director of operations, but aiming for something more in line with their current skills and then trying to work their way up to that with more experience is a wiser idea.

              4. Harper the Other One*

                This describes it perfectly. I have cushion so when I grab the impulse purchase, oops but oh well. Meanwhile I have a friend where her daughter needing new shoes borks the monthly budget. There’s no such thing as impulse buying in her world, and you’d better believe she’s better at sticking to a budget than me.

        2. Dragoning*

          Two and a half–they also have a babysitter 20 hours a week.

          The things I could do with that kind of time!

          1. ThatGirl*

            Actually it sounds like three adults, one kid, one babysitter – unless I’m misreading that and they consider the babysitter part of the family.

            1. Dragoning*

              It was two “extra” people in the thread I was responding to–but it’s two and a half “extra” people.

        3. AvonLady Barksdale*

          When my partner first moved in, he told me he was amazed at how I got everything done on my own. He didn’t work full-time at that stage, so he took on errands like grocery shopping, picking up the dry cleaning, all that good stuff. Which was nice, but my response to him was that of course I got everything done, because I lived alone and I was an adult and I had limited money and… stuff has to get done!

          1. Extroverted Bean Counter*

            “I don’t know how you do it!”
            A: Well, I have to, and honestly it’s not that fun.

          2. AnotherAlison*

            Things just expand to fill time available. A SAHP or part-timer goes to 3 different grocery stores and makes it more work. I have a system in which I get up early and run through the grocery store like I’m on a game show.

            Last weekend, I dropped off my dry cleaning with my fresh-from-anesthesia dog sitting in the back of my car. (Dog had emergency stitches while I was at the gym, and my husband had dropped her off. I didn’t know it had even happened until she was already there. The dry cleaner isn’t open on Sunday–you do what you gotta do.)

            1. madge*

              “I have a system in which I get up early and run through the grocery store like I’m on a game show.”

              Yep! We’re lucky to have a couple of stores with free online ordering where they bring it to the car, but when I do have to go inside, I have a diagram I’ve made of the aisles. My husband finds it “efficient and worrisome”.
              I hope your dog is doing well!

              1. AnotherAlison*

                Thanks – She seems to be fine. Had a run-in with a barbed wire fence. It only cost $380 to fix her up-sheesh.

              2. Skyto*

                Haha, I write out my grocery list in order of how things are arranged in the store so that I never have to backtrack.

              3. introverted af*

                There is a free app you can get for iPhones called Grocery, and it learns the grocery store you shop at as you use it and puts things in your list in order of when you should pick them up. You put everything on the list, and keep the app open as you go through the store, and it records the location of where you pick things up and when you cross them off your list. It gets smarter the more you use it and will put all your groceries in the order you pick them up in for the quickest run through.

                It works by connecting to the notes app on your phone, so you can share the note with others and have the same grocery list in the app. It has minimal ads if you don’t want to pay for the premium version, and I get some people don’t like the location tracking, but we found it very helpful in my house before I switched to an Android.

                1. madge*

                  Between this tip and your name, I’m pretty sure that I love you. I will check out Grocery, thank you, fellow introvert!

                2. Veronica Mars*

                  Holy bananas, I could save a solid 30 seconds per grocery trip that I current spend rearranging my grocery list from ‘order in which I plan to eat it’ to ‘order in which I need to pick it up at the store’.
                  (not being sarcastic, genuinely excited about this efficiency improvement)

                3. DefCon 10*

                  I’ve been looking for the perfect grocery list app for awhile now. I’m downloading Grocery as I’m typing this comment. Thank you!

        4. Extroverted Bean Counter*

          Yes, this kind of “household management” is honestly made much less impressive given the extra adult presence. Managing the finances and bills for a 3x income household is no harder than doing it for a 2x income household, but you have ~twice as much time to do it assuming the other adults are equal contributors to the daily mundanities like cooking, cleaning, and playing with your kid.

          1. madge*

            “contributors to the daily mundanities like cooking, cleaning, and playing with your kid”

            Yes, I believe OP said the other adults did the majority of cooking and cleaning. I do all of what OP lists plus the majority of cooking and cleaning (plus work FT and volunteer with two organizations). My husband and I also co-own a business with multiple locations and it’s *still* not okay for me to list the things in OP’s letter because I’m accountable to no one for those outcomes. I could list the small business experience but it’s not weighty since it’s quantified by me.

            1. Extroverted Bean Counter*

              My life looks a lot like yours (including the working FT and also co-owning a business with my husband), and we have two young children, so my personal reaction to this letter was one fantastically arched eyebrow. This is just… life. What seems to be a nicely organized life, but trying to turn “I took the lead on finding and buying our home” into “facilities management” is really pushing the limits of credulity.

                1. DarnTheMan*

                  For me, as a renter, house management becomes one step removed because all the stuff that my friends and family who own properties have to do (book the plumber, book the electrician, etc etc) my landlord is responsible for. Granted this can vary from rental property to rental property but outside of cleaning and any maintenance I choose to do, everything else is my landlord’s responsibility and it’s just my responsibility to notify him when something breaks.

                2. Rusty Shackelford*

                  Yeah, renting means there are so many things you don’t have to do (thinks fondly of the time/money I would have saved over the past year if I could just call my landlord and say “this is broken.”)

                4. Yorick*

                  @Gazebo Slayer: True, but if the landlord isn’t fixing things, that means LW hasn’t done a good job of selecting the home or negotiating with the landlord, so that would be a mark against “facilities management.”

                5. Extroverted Bean Counter*

                  Even if part of your lease agreement is that you handle repairs and such, “finding a place to rent” is dramatically less work than “finding and buying a home” because there is no mortgage song and dance to work through. You don’t have to get a lawyer, various inspectors, broker etc…

                  It takes time, effort, organization and research to find a place to live, but even buying a home isn’t something that makes you particularly qualified over anyone else – and OP’s situation isn’t even that! The vast majority of adults at some point have to find a place to live using their own discretion and efforts. It’s as useful as “I get up each day and get myself to work.” Generally, that’s expected, and it’s no more or less impressive if you hop in a car service or if you jog there.

                6. Veronica Mars*

                  @ Gazebo Slayer, true. Although, I USED to be all ‘woe is me’ about inattentive landlords, then I bought my own house. I’d much rather have to threaten/beg/coerce a landlord into fixing an appliance, than make emergency decisions about appliance replacements (and come up with the cash to do it with).

                  And I guess that’s probably what irritated me so much about that particular part of the letter: I know from experience with the worst of Boston slumlords, that no matter how hard it is to rent, buying is more work. But LW advertised ‘rent negotiation’ as a supreme accomplishment.

                7. Observer*

                  True – because renting is much easier in many ways. Not that I regret buying our house (it was the best investment we’ve ever made). But yes, there are a LOT of things we didn’t have to think about when we rented.

                8. Observer*

                  Yeah, bad landlords can be the pits. But even with our worst landlord, we weren’t the ones with a list of tradespeople etc. to make stuff happen. And when you have the kinds of options that the OP has, you can either force your landlord to do what they need to with not THAT much effort, or you can move out pretty easily. And it’s not THAT hard to avoid the really bad landlords if you have money.

        5. Bee*

          Yeah, like “I found the place where we live” – so did pretty much everyone who lives in a place? And finding an apartment on a household income of $250k is, frankly, much less impressive than the fact that I found an actually nice 1BR apartment in NYC on an income of $45k (AND convinced the landlord to rent it to me).

          2. Julia*

            I found a super nice apartment close to two stations in Tokyo when my husband made like 30k$ a year and I was in grad school. Top floor, no neighbors on either side, brand new. It was a bit over budget, but considering that moving here is very expensive (you pay at least 3x your rent in non-refundable “key money” and other fees), it was worth it and we’ve been here three years.

        6. Happy Pineapple*

          You can find that kind of software for free online, and a a child or other mammal with opposable thumbs could use it.

          If things like keeping track of bills, assigning chores, and paying a babysitter make someone a CEO/payroll/HR, then I must be Steve Jobs.

    2. Jedi Squirrel*

      From one squirrel to another…all of this. You can’t list adulting as a job skill. No, no, no, no, no.

  13. Generalistless*

    Maybe I’m reading this wrong, but are you trying to inflate your resume above what you’re currently doing (I.e. Small art department director) to director of business operations? With or without the mommy jacked resume, that may be a hard jump. If this is your ultimate goal, you may want to consider some enrichment that will get you there; a certification, degree, etc. I’m not trying to be a jerk, but I’m seeing a lot of people in my personal and business life trying to convince themselves and others that they can make this jump, but the offers aren’t following.

    1. fposte*

      I think in their minds they’re making the case for fitness and aptitude, but I think you’re right that this will read like resume inflation to the recipient.

    2. Smirkette*

      This was my thought as well. An Ops Director would require more direct work experience. If I were in ops myself and reading this, I’d be offended. (Although maybe because so also work in a profession that people think anyone can do but actually requires quite a bit of education and experience.)

      1. Generalistless*

        Yes, 1,000% to the potential of offending people actually in ops, being told ‘well I’m in charge of ops AT HOME, same thing ammirite??”
        I’m actually dealing with a former associate that has consulted for some small businesses and is now making the argument that she is qualified for CFO positions as she ‘did it all’ at a couple of fledgling small nonprofits. As an accountant working on my masters in finance, when she tries to talk shop to me, I am grinding my teeth!

        1. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

          Ah, you can have so much fun with this person if you feel so inclined. Throw out the occasional controversial (‘wrong’) tidbit of information or assertion. Ask her opinion about such-and-such finance topic (sorry can’t give an example as I am not in finance myself). Share a “hilarious” anecdote that she will pretend to get, etc.

          Am I mean? Maybe?! On a more practical note have you actually made that point to her if you are ‘friends’ in some sense?

    3. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      Something was bothering me about this letter and I think you’ve identified it.

      It seems that ‘Director of X’ can mean so many different things at different levels, any thing from “head of a department” up to “divisional head of a company sub-structure with 200 direct and indirect reports”. OP didn’t mention how many people they are a director of, but I get the sense it’s about 5-10 max.

      I wonder if OP has a realistic idea of what (e.g.) Operations Director at a larger company with a massive number of teams/departments/reports actually involves?

      As far as I know Operations Directors don’t do stuff personally like setting up bank accounts, carrying out payroll, sourcing suppliers of furniture, cleaning contracts etc anyway. In most large-ish companies Accounts/Purchasing/Facilities teams respectively would take care of those things. Maybe in some setups an Operations Director might have facilities (and possibly purchasing, probably not accounting although they would of course have to manage budgets etc) under their general purview on an org chart but wouldn’t be expected to carry out those individual duties themselves on a day to day basis.

      What I’m saying is Operations Director etc is generally a much more strategic and high level tactical role rather than just “carrying out”.

      All of the stuff OP listed, even if it is couched in appropriate ‘business language’, is at the carrying out rather than strategic and leadership level.

      I’m not sure if the OP mentioned it is an “art department” but assuming it’s that or something similar — it could very well be that they are the ‘art dept director’ and their reports are (e.g.) copywriters, marketing people, layout editors or something similar.

      1. HM MM*

        I’ve been the assistant to employees high ups in operations (one COO, others at Director or Managing Director levels) – this is all the stuff that I did. As their admin assistant. Maybe I presented them with a couple of options from which they selected, but their roles were – just as you put it – were much more tactical and strategic. I was the one carried out a lot of the logistics and created/maintained the beautiful spreadsheets.

  14. Dragoning*

    Honestly, OP, reading “Slack” and “regular staff meetings” for your household made me cringe. Don’t put it on a resume, please.

    1. Yorick*

      Why would you use Slack at home instead of having a regular group text thread, like pretty much everybody has with family households? This goes into the comments above that say it’s cringey that this person has made their home so much like a formal business.

      1. introverted af*

        I’ve gotta be honest, I could see how Slack could be really useful if you have more than 3 people that need to stay up to date. It would make looking back through conversations a lot simpler. We use Discord with friends for communication and planning almost 95% of the time, and this is just a less geeky way to do that.

        With just 3 people though, just use a dang text thread.

        1. Alexandra Lynch*

          We just go out to dinner on Sunday night and talk it all over. (shrug)

          I do my organizational system old-school, on index cards, but that means that if I fell down the stairs tomorrow Girlfriend and Boyfriend could get the card file and work out who was doing what to keep things going, and life would go on around my broken leg. That’s important to me.

    2. Leela*

      I’m going to say that using slack isn’t all that much different from just facebooking, especially for home use. I don’t know if they call that out because slack is thought to be more professional?

      I had questions about regular staff meetings too, it’s just not the same as when you do them at work, even if you hit some of the same points. There’s no grandboss for anyone under you to complain to if you’re not doing it well and you don’t have the same consequences you’d have at work. If you’re rude or demoralizing (not at all saying this is you OP, just saying what I think someone reading your resume would wonder about someone who applied), you don’t run the same risks of costing the company hundreds of thousands of dollars by losing top employees who left because of it, you aren’t responsible for retention in the same way, no one is reviewing you when you have promotions, raises, or layoffs at stake depending on your performance.

      I’m not saying it doesn’t have its own set of valid challenges, they just aren’t the same thing. It’d be like if I tried to claim buying monthly bus passes on time as “constantly hitting deadlines before the target” on my resume. I mean, there is a deadline with consequences for me not hitting it but it’s just not in the same sphere

      1. Dragoning*

        “Grandma, you didn’t teach Parent how to hold meetings well, I really don’t feel we’re covering my mac ‘n’ cheese needs enough.”

  15. AndersonDarling*

    And if the OP portrays their job as Home CFO/COO/HR then how will they be able to work another job? If the homelife is really that intensive and time consuming, then the OP will be devoting the bulk of their time to running their household instead of the job they are applying for. If I went along with the description, then I’d assume the OP would have multiple emergencies that they would need to leave work for, have many meetings and commitments to handle during office hours, or their household would fall apart in their absence.
    This isn’t the same as describing a job you are leaving, it is describing your primary job. Whatever you would be applying for would be the secondary job.

    2. Granger Chase*

      Exactly! If I saw this on a resume that showed they were also employed at the time, I’d wonder how much time they were actually spending on their paying job with everything they take care of at home. I’d be worried they’d be working on all their family budgets and contract negotiations while they’re supposed to be working on stuff for our clients. This alone would put them in my “Don’t Hire” pile.

    3. Close Bracket*

      how will they be able to work another job?

      The same way they work another job now? The same way everybody who is the primary runner of the household and also holds a full time job does?

      1. Observer*

        Which means that what they are doing is no different than any other functional adult. It’s not a resume worthy accomplishment.

  16. TootsNYC*

    You could demonstrate your Excel skills by pointing out how you taught yourself so you could track your family’s budget, and how it helped you spot some of the spending waste.

    1. That Girl from Quinn's House*

      I sort of agree with this: I think the software applications used in managing the home, if used in a professionally equivalent manner, can go on their resume if they have a section for software. It doesn’t matter where you learned how to use the software, as long as you know how to use it.

    2. Jules the 3rd*

      No, they really can’t. They need to find a project at work that addresses this.

      I mean, yes, they’ve done a great job of tying their work for the household to business buzzwords (and oh yeah that household structure seems awesome, I’d love to hand off some more pet care). But:
      – Debt reduction (hopefully) happens naturally over time, as student loans and mortgages get paid down.
      – Lots of people budget, and a household budget in Excel is basic. I mean, ok, my household budget has pivot tables, but I have work-related projects that demonstrate my skills and impact better (pivot, vlookup, and vbasic; saving $Ms, not $Ks).
      – Credit scoring is a game anyone can play as long as their income exceeds their spend.
      – Paying bills on time is easy with most banks’ autopay systems. 80% of my bills are automatic. 10% I have to adjust the specific $$s, 10% I enter into the bank system as they come in.

      (OP, if you’re spending time every night on this when you don’t have major projects in the works [ie, renovation or move], you’re spending too much time on it. Automate! I’m down to 8 hrs/mo except at tax / insurance picking times.)

      I don’t have the HR part, but I could put everything else on there in the process of managing my under $100K income household. But I have *much* better projects from work.

      1. fposte*

        I think you might be mistaking Toots’ point a little there, though; I read her as saying not that the OP can put her household running on her resume but that a specific software skill is something that you might still be able to claim even if you taught yourself for private reasons.

        And I would agree with that, generally. However, I think its risk/benefit ratio depends a lot on what position you’re looking for. Early career/entry level? I have a lot of time for those candidates who taught themselves Excel and are comfortable with pivot tables and vlookup; my jobs aren’t quant work but office stuff that’s pretty much on a par with a lot of personal use. For a director of operations job, though, I would expect a candidate to have paid work experience with what the OP describes, including Excel.

        1. Jules the 3rd*

          I don’t think you can put it on the resume without either an external accreditation or work/ class experience. You can talk to it in an interview, but need some kind of external use to put it on a resume.

          I’m learning Python right now, using a project at home with Mr. Jules. It doesn’t go on a resume until I’ve found a project to do at work, or complete the 20+ hr course & project my work offers.

          1. fposte*

            This may just be a “we differ” thing; I get applications that mention this level of Excel and I’m glad they let me know. I don’t put a ton of weight on it because I’m not hiring for genuine expertise in it, but I don’t put a ton of weight on what *anybody* says about their Excel work.

        2. TootsNYC*

          This is kind of my point.
          And that you don’t put it on your resumé; it might come out during your interview.
          I grabbed Excel as an example, but the point is not that your household budget is so complicated that you need Excel, but that you are the sort of person who looks to learn the ways to automate stuff, etc.

          Maybe most of that household stuff doesn’t lend itself to that, but something might. And that’s how you’d use it–it would be an example of the thought processes or attitude.

    3. Extroverted Bean Counter*

      Yes, this is really the only type of thing I think can be used.

      “While I don’t use Excel in my day-to-day in my role as Director of the Arts Department, I am self-taught and use it in my personal life to manage my household. I use PowerPivot to _whatever_ and have written macros that essentially mimic Mint to analyze monthly spending trends. I would consider myself a moderately advanced user, despite it not being required at Arts Inc.”

      1. TootsNYC*

        “…and I will reach out to teach myself whatever it is that I need to know.”

        Or you say, “I found that automating things with a relatively simple Excel thing can really speed my decision making. I did it at home, and it was pretty powerful. I haven’t needed it at work, but it was eye-opening to me, so I’m always alert to those sorts of approaches.”

      2. Argye*

        I kind of agree with this. I taught myself FileMaker Pro to manage a recipe collection. Yes, seriously. It’s now a collection of 19 related tables, and one table has well over 18,000 records. It’s massively over-engineered, but I learned a massive amount of FileMaker Pro and data management from putting the thing together. I now have many other databases that I use to run my life.

        I have sometimes considered looking into a job in data management, using my self-taught abilities, but I never have, largely because, while I’ve used it to some extent professionally, most of my experience is in my household. If something is broken – whatever! I can just work around it until I get it figured out. I couldn’t do that professionally.

        1. Jules the 3rd*

          hahahha Yes you could. “I can just work around it until I get it figured out” is, like, half of all tech work. And then the workarounds get baked in to the processes but never documented, and then you move on to another job and then things get amusing.

  17. AThought*

    I think that your way of describing what you do for your household is really compelling! So even if you are talking about your professional experience rather than your personal experience, I bet your cover letter will be great.

    I also think that you can probably mine your current professional experience for examples – you are a director of a department so I’d guess a lot of this (hiring/firing/budgeting) is there too and would be more compelling. Also even though you originally became interested in operations due to your household, you could say that the operational aspects of your job are the most exciting to you and that is motivating the change!

  18. Youth*

    Is there any reason why the person couldn’t include some of these skills in the Skills section of their resume? Like negotiating contracts or budgeting or whatever?

      1. Legal Beagle*

        Agreed, and the interviewer is likely to dig into it and ask where they acquired those skills if not from any past work experience. Once you tell them that it’s from managing household budgets and babysitter hiring, it’s going to look like you misrepresented yourself on your resume.

          1. Oxford Comma*

            I think it depends on the field. A skills section with languages or specific software or databases listed would be perfectly fine in mine, especially for entry level applicants.

      3. Professional Confusion*

        This depends on the industry. I’ve been advised by professionals in my field to include a “technical skills” section of my resume, which has been noticed and complimented often. I was also advised to add a “soft skills” section, which gets commented on about 50/50 but I literally just copy/paste buzzword phrases from the job ad to get past application filters so it’s really meaningless. Granted, YMMV, but this is my experience in the technical sciences.

    2. CTT*

      Being knowledgeable about payroll and tax rules for an independent contractor might be useful depending on the organization, but that’s something I’d discuss if it came up in the interview rather than put it on my resume.

    3. Lilo*

      Personal and professional negotiating and budgeting can be very different to the point that listing these as professional skills on a resume could be arguably deceptive. It would likely not go over well if an interviewer asked about your contract negotiating skills and your own experience was negotiating with your plumber. It’s a different ball game on a company level.

      2. The New Wanderer*

        One version of my resume has a skills section, but it’s a summary of the skills I demonstrate with my professional achievements in the Experience section (it’s like a TL:DR section up front). None of the things the OP lists as skills can be quantified in a way that makes sense for a job. Your personal budget is very different from managing things at a company level. Negotiating with a contractor, particularly for one-off things like a plumbing job or renovation? Not the same as managing long term relationships with vendors and suppliers again at a company level.

        Putting that you have budget management and contract negotiation skills without the context that those are for personal/home services is misleading.

      3. NotAnotherManager!*

        Yep. I negotiate both enterprise-level business contracts and the contracts for personal things. They are not remotely the same thing, and I’m looking for much different things and have many, many more considerations when negotiating on behalf of my employer.

    4. AndersonDarling*

      They’d be great talking points during the interview. But negotiating a kitchen remodel is still a lot different from negotiating the addition of a new department.

    5. CheeryO*

      Pretty much the same reasons that Alison listed – it’s not really that unique, because everyone does these things to an extent, and it won’t have any teeth because there’s no accountability.

    6. Youth*

      Interesting replies. I guess my thinking is that they must have learned these skills outside of running a household and transferred them over, because it seems weird to approach your household like a “business” if you’ve never been involved in running a business. But I guess there isn’t enough in the letter to directly support that.

      1. Allypopx*

        Nah some people are just high maintenance or overly organized. I’d worry about the former if I got a resume like this.

      2. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

        I’m not sure that they actually do run their household like a business, though.

        They have basically rewritten a load of (mostly universal, a few specific) household management tasks into “business-type language” e.g. “negotiate lease renewals” is probably something like ‘when the lease comes up for renewal I asked the landlord if we could arrange a rent of $20 a month less if we agree to stay for 12 months instead of 6″ or whatever the standard is in the OPs locale).

        Unlike some of the other commenters here I don’t necessarily think the OP is a micromanaging control freak (I’m paraphrasing) who takes care of all the household admin and dictates to the others.

        They said other tasks like cooking and cleaning are taken care of by the other adults in the house — so I sort of infer that OP primarily takes care of the finances and ‘admin’, Housemate 1 primarily takes care of the cooking, grocery shopping etc and Housemate 2 primarily takes care of the cleaning / putting out the trash / ‘manual’ tasks like that. It seems like quite an efficient way of splitting up the work, in that if there are 3 of you and responsibilities can be divided neatly it makes sense that each person has primary responsibility for whatever is in their area.

        > “that they must have learned these skills outside of running a household and transferred them over”

        The thing is there aren’t many skills here that anyone running a household doesn’t already have, when you unpick it. Maybe the stuff about employing someone, but OP said they “familiarized themself with employment law” etc which seems clear that this area was new to them.

    7. Anonymous Poster*

      Someone applying for jobs at the level OP is already has achievements demonstrating these skills.

    8. Yorick*

      I think “Skills” would be for specific things you know (like “Excel” or “Agile” or whatever), not broad categories that you could be good at like “budgeting” or “negotiating contracts.”

    9. Leela*

      “negotiating contracts” on a resume implies something that isn’t really what happens when you’ve negotiated the contracts for domestic help. You’re not hemmed in by a company’s policies, you don’t have the same things at stake, and I’d be pretty irritated to bring in someone who had “negotiating contracts” in their skills section only to bring them in and find out that this is what they meant!

    10. Observer*

      Mostly because the level of budgeting or negotiating in a household is not the same as in a business context.

  19. londonedit*

    These are definitely things that most adults need to do. My income is a fraction of yours, but I still have to do the housework, negotiate lease renewals with my landlord, keep an eye on my utility bills to make sure I’m getting the best deals, manage my bank accounts, organise appointments, do the food shopping, etc etc. I live by myself so there is no one else to do it – OK, I don’t have vast spreadsheets, but I’m still keeping my life in order. It’s not a huge deal to be doing that sort of general life admin and suggesting otherwise would come across as quite out-of-touch.

    In addition to that, I’d be wary of coming across like you’re so invested in your life outside work that your attention wouldn’t be wholly focused on your job. Of course, we all have lives outside work, but if I was an employer looking at your cover letter/CV and you’d listed this stuff in the sort of detail you have in your letter here, I’d probably be concerned that you’d be more interested in keeping your personal spreadsheets up to date than actually focusing on the job during office hours.

    1. Agreed*

      That’s a very good point. (And I say that as someone who has detailed personal spreadsheets that are constantly beckoning me to update them at any time of day…)

  20. Sunflower*

    I wish those things *can* be put on a resume. If you’re paid as to be someone else’s housekeeper, child/elder care, accounting, cook, etc., it’s normal to put on a resume. But sadly, you shouldn’t do that when it’s for your own household.

    1. Jedi Squirrel*

      Because there’s a difference between doing it for somebody else, where you have to meet an external level of quality, and doing it for yourself, where you determine the level of quality.

      If I’m late picking up my kid from soccer practice? No big deal, he can sit there and wait for 15 minutes.

      If I’m late picking up a kid that I’m being paid to pick up from soccer practice? That’s a whole other matter.

      1. CL Cox*

        Having worked as a housekeeper, THIS. If I had picked up fast food for the kids instead of the dinner I was supposed to prepare? That’s a big problem. If I pick up fast food for my own kids, no one cares.

    2. TootsNYC*

      but you would put those things on a resume for work AS a household worker.

      If that were the job they were going for—applying to be someone who manages the care for an elderly or disabled person; being a housekeeper for someone–absolutely, that should go on their resume.

      but that’s not the job they’re going for.

      1. SpatulaCity*

        what if you took a break from your “regular” career in order to be a caretaker for an ill or elderly family member? You would need to put something in to explain the gap in your work history, and some of those caretaking skills may be transferrable.

        1. Count Boochie Flagrante*

          That becomes one of those desirability tiering things. If you took time off work, caretaking fills in so that your resume isn’t “did nothing.” But if you’re a working professional, your resume needs to reflect that you’re a working professional.

        2. hbc*

          You can explain a gap without trying to claim that you gained resume-worthy skills. I mean, sure, if I’m hiring for an entry-level home caregiver, I’ll probably hire the person who says he took care of his mom for two years versus the person who’s never done a bit of caretaking. But I won’t hire the guy who puts his mom’s caretaking on his resume as if it’s equivalent to a job versus, say, a side mention in his cover letter that his personal experience taught him that he wants to shift towards a helping profession.

      2. Clisby*

        Yes. If this is the job OP likes to do, apply for jobs as an executive housekeeper. Even 20 years ago in Atlanta, we’d occasionally see those jobs listed at $50,000+ annually. No idea what it would pay now.

      3. Clisby*

        Yes. If this is the job OP likes to do, apply for jobs as an executive housekeeper. Even 20 years ago in Atlanta, we’d occasionally see those jobs listed at $50,000+ annually. No idea what it would pay now.

  21. Antilles*

    We have a combined income of about $250,000/year and really do run our household like a business
    Okay, so I’m trying to phrase this as nicely as possible.
    I understand this is meant to emphasize that you’re dealing with a lot of items far beyond just any other household…but to me, this comes across as a laughable thing to brag about in a “well, yeah, your finances are solid – making quadruple the median household income is a pretty good starting place!”

    1. Temperance*

      Eeew, I totally missed that. No, your household is not “run like a business”, and if you think it is, it shows that you have no business experience.

      1. Dark Angel*

        I found that comparing her “household” to a business pretty cringe worthy. I’m not sure if this person did so in order to inflate the importance of their work or if it is done in order to draw parallels between how their family is like a business, but at the end of the day, a household, regardless if this is siblings or cousins or a parent/children situation just doesn’t sit right with me. The people you live with are usually personal relationships NOT business relationships and it’s honestly kind of weird to make it seem like they’re one and the same. Like who runs “business” meetings with family/roommates? Maybe the OP wants to call it that in order to convey how it’s similar to business meetings, but it seems out of touch to seriously act like a family/roommate meeting = staff meeting.

    3. Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves*

      Yeah, I don’t think “I run our fairly wealthy household” is exactly resume worthy and definitely isn’t more impressive than someone doing it near the poverty line. The latter generally doesn’t get to brag about this.

    4. PiggyStardust*

      I had the same thought — it’s the reason you’re even able to do all of this “household management” like buying furniture and appliances and hiring contractors.

    5. Goliath Corp.*

      Yeahhhhhhhh I imagine it’s not that hard to pay your bills on time and improve your credit score when you’ve got this kind of income.

    6. tinybutfierce*

      Yeah, if I was hiring and a resume listing just general adulting came across my desk, I’d just assume it was tone-deaf or an attempt at inflating their skills, at best.

      1. Threeve*

        I would also think “oh, this person does not need this job, and is possibly going to give managing their wealthy household priority over their work for me.”

      1. Allypopx*

        Yeah with all these details this really doesn’t come off as a household that needs above-normal levels of management.

        1. Diamond*

          Right?? There’s ONE kid and THREE adults to share the load. OP mentions that the other adults handle the childcare, shopping and cooking, and they get cleaning services in. That pretty much covers all the daily tasks. OP’s description of their chores sounds wildly dramatic.

    8. Lora*

      Oof. OP, definitely do not even whisper this anywhere either on your resume or in your cover letter or in interviews at all in any way whatsoever.

      Without going into too much detail, there are a LOT of people who would find this attitude downright offensive – including people who can buy and sell your family several times over. The first words that would leap to my mind would involve NPV of your children vs spouse…trying to pick a non-political example, basically it’s better to do like Elizabeth Taylor and collect a series of wealthy ex-spouses, than it is to have any children which usually have negative NPV.

    9. Goldfinch*

      Yup. Every aspect of home life management is easier when you can throw money at it. Get back to me when you’ve made these types of accomplishments near the poverty line.

      1. Rusty Shackelford*

        And when you also have to cook and do the grocery shopping and the majority of the childcare, which the LW says are mostly handled by the other two adults.

    10. hbc*

      Yeah, my household income is around that with 2 adults, 2 kids, and 2 pets, and we get away with a heck of a lot of balls being dropped, probably lots that we don’t even know about. I would say that OP has me beat as Household COO based on their description, but from the outside it probably looks pretty much the same: doing better than most, no immediate danger of destitution.

  22. You can call me flower, if you want to*

    Too be honest, I would really question your judgement if you mentioned this on your resume. You’re the director of a department. Why would you show off your home management skills when you can show off your organizational and management skills under your actual work experience? It would make you stand out and not in a good way.

      1. Yvette*

        It all just smacks of gilding the lily. Like an episode of a sit-com where people trying to make entry level job skills sound important. ‘Answered the phone’ becomes ‘managed communications’ , ‘unlocking the door every morning and locking it at night’ becomes ‘responsible for site security’ etc. As others have pointed out, your current job is nothing to sneeze at, you should be able to lean on that. You did not mention your total experience, has this been your only professional job? (I never know how to phrase that without it sounding condescending, so my apologies.)

    3. CL Cox*

      YES! I would think that (1) your home life is apparently more important to you than anything else and/or (2) your work isn’t very good, so you want to shore it up.

      1. Allypopx*

        More 2, for me. I would think “what an odd thing to put on their resume, I wonder what about their professional work is so concerning that they are focusing on this?”

  23. Personal Best In Consecutive Days Lived*

    On a personal note I’m really impressed. No one runs our household, we take care of individual tasks like paying bills but there’s no overarching organizational structure.
    … Can my family move in with yours?

    1. epi*

      Yeah, my reaction to this letter was that I need a family member like the OP.

      I strongly disagree with the other comments that this is just adulting stuff. Paying your bills and trying to keep to a budget is something everyone has to do; optimizing every aspect of the financial lives of everyone in your household absolutely is not. Part of the reason the OP really cannot put this on their resume is that no one would ever assume this is what is meant by running a household. The OP sounds like they are doing this to a level of quality and rigor that most people just don’t apply, or have to apply, to their personal life– the accountability factor that Alison mentions in her response. But the OP can’t really prove in a resume or cover letter that, no really, they are doing this stuff in a fastidious and special way. There’s not much benefit to them mentioning it, unfortunately.

    2. I Wrote This in the Bathroom*

      I’ll admit, I had to step up the amount of household-running after I left my husband, was forced by circumstances to buy a house, and became a single-income provider with two teenage kids, a dog, and a brand-new mortgage. (And nothing in savings, because the 10% downpayment and the divorce lawyer retention fee ate my emergency savings account. Also my income was pretty damn far from 250K. This was one job change and ten years of merit raises and COL adjustments ago, and it is still far from 250K and will always be.) Tracking every single expense, excel sheets and whatnot. When I was married, the household did run itself and we did spend time paying the bills. Now the household runs itself again and the bills are all on autopay, so they also pay themselves. But for a while I had to really keep track of where my time and money went. (Kids graduating, applying to colleges, etc took some time and effort.)

      So, when I read the headline, I was like “oh, wow, just like I was ten years ago!” (starts reading) “oh, no, wait” :)

  24. Temperance*

    LW, I don’t think this will have the desired impact if you include it, and you’ll come off looking at best tone-deaf. It sounds like you’re elevating regular life activities – finding an apartment, signing a lease, paying your bills – to make it seem as if you’re running a business. It would be like if I tried to call myself a manager because I will make the household phone calls, since I have my own office and my husband does not.

    1. Artemesia*

      It sounds like the young person who wanted to write about her college life this way i.e. attending classes and turning in the work etc but drafting it as if it were business skills and work. As if EVERY single person who went to school didn’t have this experience.

      2. I Wrote This in the Bathroom*

        Reminds me of the college essays my sons had to write. “Tell me about a time when you overcame difficulties.” One wrote “my mother left my father and suddenly, a spacious house was replaced with a dingy apartment.” The “dingy apartment” was a huge three-bedroom that cost me as much as my monthly house payment does now, so I had mixed feelings about that sentence, but hope the college appreciated!

        1. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

          It’s a bit of a sidebar but I wonder if it’s legit to use those personal experiences (either in general household management, or extraordinary situations like divorce) in an interview for those type of “Tell us about a time when….?” questions (if you don’t have anything work-relevant to draw on, of course).

          Does anyone know?

          1. Ask a Manager* Post author

            If you’re new to the world world, there’s more leeway to draw on household stuff; after that, I’d avoid it. Never, ever use your divorce in an interview.

          2. Rusty Shackelford*

            When I’ve been the interviewer in that situation, we accepted non-work experiences, but they were related to school or volunteer positions. A personal experience would have to be pretty extraordinary. (“No, I’ve never planned travel in my job, but every year I plan a multi-country, three-week long trip for a dozen family members, so I’m very familiar with arranging for hotels, airline tickets, and local transportation for a group on a strict budget.”) If the question is about getting along with difficult coworkers, trying to make it about getting along with your difficult ex-spouse isn’t going to fly. (Even though it’s probably a bigger accomplishment!)

  25. Not Australian*

    IMHO the only way this may be at all relevant is if you’re able to throw it into the mix casually at some stage, e.g. “Yes, I keep current on the software because I happen to use it at home,” or “Luckily budgets are something I have plenty of experience of in my private life”. You may get an extra half brownie-point for that, but otherwise employers are going to want to know about your work history – not how awesome you are at home.

      1. CL Cox*

        I used to run a small business out of my home. It’s been very handy for that sort of thing. “Yes, I am quite proficient in QuickBooks, I used QB Pro in my business.”

  26. uncivil servant*

    I will say that the OP has really impressive cover letter-writing skills, and if they applied them to their work achievements I have no doubt they’d end up with a great application. I don’t mean to come off as snarky – I’m really not surprised this person works in media because they have great writing skills. But when you go through it with a cynical eye, there just isn’t much there that is not a part of most people’s daily life.

  27. Blue_eyes*

    OP, have you considered looking for jobs as a Household Manager? Everything that you described is what I do for my job – I’m the House Manager and Chief of Staff for a family. I basically do all the things that most adults do for themselves, but do it at a higher level for people who are too busy to do it themselves and wealthy enough to pay someone else to. Job titles to look for in this field include Household Manager, Family Manager, Family Assistant.

      1. AvonLady Barksdale*

        YES. I think that is super cool. I recently met someone who is married to a personal chef, and I had to hold myself back from asking her ALL the questions. From what she told me, it was so much more than making dinner– he did meal prep, party planning, supply ordering, etc. and it was full-time with set hours, not like, “Jeeves, I am hungry, make me a sandwich!”

        1. emmelemm*

          Having known someone who was a professional chef for a couple of very wealthy people whose names you definitely know, the one thing that marvelled me was that their fancy houses were SO fancy that they had the “show kitchen”, with the huge, gleaming appliances and acres of counterspace, and then they had the “back kitchen”, which was probably about as cramped as your kitchen and had regular appliances. No food was ever cooked or consumed in the show kitchen; it existed to be photographed only. The poor chef had to cook all her gourmet meals in a tiny, cluttered space.

          1. Julia*

            The one I knew (I worked for an embassy and sometimes dealt with the ambassador residence staff) had a really big kitchen and freezer etc. in the basement, and a regular sized family kitchen. No guests ever saw either kitchen. The chef lived in the attic, which must have been awkward because he had to go past the family quarters to enter and leave, and did all the shopping with the help of the maids, who helped him do meal prep as well.

      3. Super Duper*

        +1 for an interview! I also enjoy organization and task management so I’ve idly dreamed about taking this type of job, but I don’t know if I have the personality for it.

      4. RedBrickDream*

        These jobs can be very, very stressful. I have a friend who has been the personal assistant for An Actor Whose Name You Have Heard Frequently for the last 25 years, and the work is incredibly demanding—particularly because, in many cases, you’re managing on multiple coasts (and in multiple countries!) and in essentially every aspect of a family’s life. I’m amazed by my friend’s organizational skills (as well as her ability to problem solve at an unbelievably high level!).

      1. Mystery Bookworm*

        I saw that! But frankly, depending on the salary, there are professional nannies who wouldn’t necessarily balk at that ad.

        I used to work for a household that had two nannies (live in weekday one and part-time weekend one). The full-time nanny had a degree in education and had formerly been a teacher, but switched to nannying for wealthy families because the pay and benefits was better (!)

        1. Goliath Corp.*

          I think the missing context was the salary range, because I had imagined that it wouldn’t be nearly enough to compensate for the requirements of the job. But it sounds like I’m wrong about that!

          1. cheeky*

            I live in Silicon Valley, and this woman planned to offer about $90k for the job, with the possibility of living on the property in a guest house worth $3k a month in rent. That’s a good deal, except that the skills the woman was asking for of the house manager/nanny would be worth so much more than that. I make more money and work much less than that job entails.

    3. Rollergirl09*

      I’ve met people who work as house managers and it is a really well paying career depending on the family you’re working for. I think it is a really cool job for people who have skills like the LW.

      1. Sleepless*

        I’m a veterinarian and I used to work in a wealthy neighborhood. I had a few clients who had house managers, and they would bring the pets to their vet appointments. It was kind of annoying because either the manager would have to call the owner and I’d have to say everything again to the owner on the phone, or they would consent to anything and everything and I never knew if the real owner was ok with it. I did draw the line at a manager who matter-of-factly tried to give permission for a somewhat risky surgery without so much as calling the owner.

  28. Purt's Peas*

    Here’s the big issue for me. The details of how you run your life generally should not be relevant to a hiring manager unless the logistics will directly affect your work. I don’t think they should be relevant in a positive way–“wow, this candidate belonged to a frat, and they golf every weekend at some country club!”–and they REALLY shouldn’t be relevant in a negative way–“staff meetings at home? _I_ wouldn’t like that in _my_ personal life.”

    You’re hoping that you’ll get some positive relevance, or even that it rises above personal life to second job. I think you shouldn’t hope for the positive relevance, because you may get negativity in response; and I think that as Alison describes, it’s an unsung form of labor that still doesn’t count as a second job.

  29. AThought*

    Can we not call this “mommy jacking” (happening in the comments)? It has some problematic gendered notions baked in that I think is unhelpful to women and parents in general. Plus, in this case the LW has specified they are non-binary so this is potentially mis-gendering.

    1. Legally a Vacuum*

      I agree- and this issue is not about having children/reentering the workforce, it’s about conflating personal and professional roles.

      1. ThatGirl*

        Nitpicking is mentioning minor grammatical errors or saying “I think you mean x instead of y” when the meaning is clear – pointing out potential sexism or problematic wording is not the same thing.

      2. Rosemary*

        Or you could use common courtesy and not misgender the LW, regardless of what you think of their resume-building practices.

      3. AThought*

        I did genuinely consider if this was nitpicking. I honestly don’t think it is. (I didn’t put the original comment as a reply to anyone in particular because I didn’t want to be word policing their points). BUT, I’ve been helped many times when others have thoughtfully pointed out to me that some of my language is problematic (racist, sexist, misgendering etc). I personally have a lot of work to do on these issues too – I don’t think its a nit to point out and call each other to thoughtfulness.

  30. Buttons*

    I don’t understand how a director of a department doesn’t utilize all those same skills in their career? That is more worrisome than someone thinking all of what is listed isn’t what all of us do every day.

    2. SomebodyElse*

      That is exactly the question that any hiring manager worth their salt would be asking. Operations skills can be found and applied to almost every position I can think of. If someone at a director level couldn’t come up with some examples or anything to show me their experience, I would absolutely take a hard pass.

    3. I Wrote This in the Bathroom*

      +1000, as someone who has run an organized household, but could not manage their way out of a paper bag, I’d have liked to see more about the department director experience and job duties if I were a hiring manager.

  32. Not So Super-visor*

    nope — as someone who regularly receives these, I can tell you that they make you look incredibly unqualified and unless you have other solid work experience, your resume will end up in the trash.
    Also (just to put it out there), if you’re selling MLM products and list yourself as a CEO/owner of your “business,” you have a high chance of ending up in the junk pile unless you’ve got other strong work experience.

    1. Jedi Squirrel*

      Also (just to put it out there), if you’re selling MLM products and list yourself as a CEO/owner of your “business,” you have a high chance of ending up in the junk pile unless you’ve got other strong work experience.

      Yeah, these aren’t really businesses. You have no external standards to meet, no external sales quotas, etc. It’s more of a hobby than anything else.

      And to be honest, if you were that good at running an MLM, you wouldn’t be looking for a job. Most of those things are fairly scammy in their recruiting practices.

      1. Not So Super-visor*

        precisely — and your double diamond superstar level promotion means exactly squat within the business world

          1. Gazebo Slayer*

            Or “actively scamming other, more vulnerable people in their downline and will probably try to sell crap to or recruit coworkers, do not hire.”

            1. Quill*

              “About to become that employee panhandling betwixt cubes when they discover that most MLM associates loose money overall”

      2. Antilles*

        Also, if you think an MLM is worthy of putting on your resume upfront and bragging about your “ownership”, I’m immediately assuming that you’re mentally bought-in enough that hiring you would mean having to deal with the sales pitch after you join. Hard pass.

    2. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      I’m amazed (but I do believe you!) that people receive resumes like this ‘regularly’… Once upon a time I was a hiring manager involved with reviewing resumes etc but I don’t recall ever seeing something like this (we weren’t recruiting people to be Directors of X, it was much further down the org chart, but still required skills in organizing / prioritizing / ‘managing stakeholders’ etc etc)

      Is this a common experience I wonder?

      I’ve never come across a resume with MLM on it either, although I do have people in my personal life who have got involved in the whole CEO/owner/mompreneur/girlboss/hit-me-up-for-opportunities-to-make-money/I’m-hosting-a-product-party …. I’m afraid to say it has made me lose any credibility they might have had with me and I mostly give no weight to anything they say.

      I think if I were still a hiring manager and received a resume with MLM on it but the person was otherwise qualified and might be a good fit… I most likely would interview them, but with a strong sense of skepticism especially as my field is quite scientific and ‘rational’. (e.g. Lab Technician and Girlboss of MLM)

      1. WS*

        Not the person who posted before, but yes, I have come across a small but increasing number of resumes with MLM nonsense on them. My workplace tends to hire a lot of women, so there probably is something there about trying to make child-rearing time out of the workforce look more impressive or business-focused, but it really doesn’t. That said, we have also had women married to farmers who do actually run a million dollar plus budget for the farm, with a household budget as a small part of that.

  33. CTT*

    OP, what is really sticking out to me is how much you are doing and how a lot of it would likely not be relevant to the roles you’re looking for. Like drafting the contract for your nanny; in most organizations I’ve been with, that’s going to be handled by counsel, not the director. Or overseeing maintenance would be handled by someone else or a property management company. You are clearly doing a lot and doing it well! But I don’t think the Venn diagram of your household and your job overlaps so much.

    1. LawLady*

      My response to that “drafting the employment contract” was EGADS. Non-lawyers should not draft employment contracts; they’re just such a trap for the unwary. Honestly, even as a contract lawyer (in banking), I wouldn’t feel comfortable drafting an employment contract, because employment law has so many traps.

      1. CTT*

        Oh, hard same. Although I’m sure Legal Zoom or similar has a basic “employing a teenager/college student to watch my kid” form that’s probably fine and which I very much hope is what was used here.

      2. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

        (With my cynical hat on…..) I expect “drafting the employment contract” actually means something more like getting hold of a basically ‘ready to go, fill-in-the-blanks’ contract (I don’t know how it is in the States (?) but here in the UK there are so many people who employ someone like a babysitter, personal carer etc and need to be basically an employer of 1 person, but need to have those contracts etc…. so there are companies that produce these “boilerplate” contracts that the person can customise) and then putting in that the assistant gets ‘X’ days of vacation, hourly wage is is ‘$Y per hour’, they have ‘Z’ paid sick days, their line manager is ‘Person P’ (the OP in this case) etc.

        1. Not Australian*

          The basis of law in the UK and US is different. In the UK it’s largely ‘common law’, i.e. law made by individuals, so there is nothing whatever to stop anyone drawing up a contract and getting someone else to sign it; whether it is enforceable by law is another matter, but a contract is usually just a note of the terms and conditions the parties have agreed on and is useful to refer to in cases of disagreement. In the USA, law tends to start with the statute and everything is more closely regulated – including who can write a contract and what it must include. That’s not to say that there’s no blurring of boundaries, but in the UK an individual can effectively be their own lawyer in a way that isn’t possible in the USA. There are still plenty of boilerplate contracts available online, though, presumably for the use of law students.

          1. LawLady*

            None of this is true, in my experience. Both the US and the UK are common-law jurisdictions (and they are really very, very similar– we read some seminal British cases in American law school!). There are some things that are more tightly regulated here than in the UK, but some that are less. And the UK actually has more employee protections than the US.

            Why do you think a more common law approach means you can more easily be your own lawyer? Frankly, I’d think it goes the other direction. In a civil jurisdiction, you just have to read and interpret the law, whereas in a common law jurisdiction, you have to do case research, which is more specialized and therefore more likely to require an expert.

    2. hbc*

      Yeah, I think that may be the biggest problem with this approach. Not only shouldn’t personal and professional streams cross in this way, but thinking “I priced out these contractors” is relevant to a COO job (versus something in purchasing) actually comes across as *less* knowledgable about the role.

  34. Coco*

    This sounds similar to the letter writer who wanted to compare going to university to having a job. That OP’s update was nice.

    On a personal note, I wonder what you use slack for? Like is it easier than group texts/ WhatsApp/ line/ emails?

    1. Dragoning*

      I have slack for personal friend groups, and I can see the value of having channels with the babysitter, without the babysitter, with and without the kid, etc.

      1. we're basically gods*

        I’d say Discord is way better for this, because it saves message history forever, even if you aren’t paying. Slack has a significant downside in that the free version has some serious limits on how long messages will be saved. And if someone is paying for Slack for running a household, I’d be…so baffled.

        1. Coco*

          Yeah. I guess I’m not seeing what functions Slack adds? I mean if you prefer Slack to say WhatsApp, sure. but I wouldn’t mention messaging people in general in a resume so wasn’t sure if there was something that makes Slack more resume worthy?

    2. Lilo*

      Well for instance, I actually was a paid note taker in college and grad school (I worked for the disability office, I never knew who got my notes). I never ended up putting that on a resume but I probably could have. It did require additional focus and work that regular note taking didn’t require and my notes were audited to make sure they were clear and thorough.

      From a personal standpoint it helped me focus and so was terrific.

      Whereas just taking your own notes isn’t the same. No one’s auditing them.

      1. Misty*

        Hey I’m a paid note taker in my classes right now! It’s also through the disability office. I love it. I feel like I’m concentrating more because I have to make sure not to miss anything for the others’ notes.

    3. General von Klinkerhoffen*

      Spouse wanted me and EldestChild to use a Slack channel for messages (family things like “Grandma is coming for lunch on Sunday – what time is your training?”) because he uses Slack extensively at work. It made perfect sense for him.

      It made zero sense for me or EldestChild who both live on WhatsApp all day long. We ignored the Slack request and continue to use WhatsApp for messaging. There’s even a separate group with Grandma and Auntie in it too.

    4. pamplemousse*

      I use Slack all day at work and I can see see the appeal. It offers a lot of features a text thread doesn’t — it’s also a place to easily keep/bookmark important documents (you could pin a link to the budget, for example). Plus it works the same no matter what phone/device you’re using (everyone can see who’s typing when, reactions are visible even if you’ve got an Android and iPhone user combined). And if you’re in the program all day, it’s actually easier for you to swap between Work Slack and Home Slack rather than Work Slack and Home iMessages/Whatsapp/etc.

      It seems a little extra to me, as most of this does, but it’s not crazy if the 3 adults involved all use Slack at work.

  35. drpuma*

    OP, what would it look like if you took some of the household skills you describe here and turned them into a side hustle? That would be resume-worthy. Maybe there are other families where your kid goes to school who also hire a nanny or au pair and would pay you to ensure that gets tracked and paid out appropriately. Maybe you could do financial coaching around debt reduction and credit score improvement. Maybe you could look to transition to an organization that does that kind of work. It’s awesome that you are so passionate about your family, but I have to agree with the other commenters who suggest that all the mental bandwidth you can devote to your household implies you’re either not being fully engaged by or not fully engaging with your current job. Life is long and it’s amazing how many opportunities are out there for someone as motivated as you.

    1. Dark Angel*

      I actually think that this would be a fabulous solution; it would make those skills marketable if the OP made their household organizing skills into a side hustle

  36. De Minimis*

    I had a coworker get hired despite doing this, but it’s not a good practice. That workplace in particular seemed to have Bizarro-world hiring practices [they once hired a candidate who didn’t have any questions at the end of the interview], though I guess it wasn’t too bad since they hired me!

    1. Mill Miker*

      they once hired a candidate who didn’t have any questions at the end of the interview

      Is that really that odd? I’ve been in a number of interviews where the interviewer was really thorough and pre-empted all my questions. Is one supposed to just come up with more questions just for the sake of asking something?

      1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

        Basically every I’ve hired haven’t had any questions at the end of an interview. But I also don’t hire for very complex roles so there’s that.

        I also rarely have any questions as well, I ask my questions as they come up and if that’s an issue with the interviewer, we’re not going to work well together anyways. I don’t need to wait until the end to raise my questions *shrug*.

        1. De Minimis*

          This was a case where the person really should have had questions, as they hadn’t had the opportunity to ask anything. We also hired people where the interview ended up being more of a conversation where they’d asked questions throughout, and that was different.

          The person who didn’t ask questions was a temp that was trying to get the same position full-time, and I guess she assumed she didn’t need to ask anything. She was fortunate that she got the job. I brought up the lack of questions, and was told that we shouldn’t hold it against candidates because they might have a different background where they didn’t necessarily know how to prepare for an interview. Her responses to the “tell me about a time when….” questions were not so great either, and the person who was her manager said the interview did not really make it a stronger case to hire her [ultimately they did so anyway.]

          1. ElizabethJane*

            I mean – people don’t really **need** to ask questions. If I’m asking questions it’s because there’s information I want to know. If I don’t ask questions it’s because those answers aren’t going to make a difference in my decision to take the job. If you need more information from me as the interviewer ask questions that will give you that info. Don’t decide that because I didn’t ask you to describe a typical day in the office I must be a bad candidate.

          2. Julia*

            What? If the temp was already doing the job, why do you think she had to ask questions?

            I’ve also had interviews that were more of a conversation, and we asked each other questions throughout, so I didn’t have any left at the end.

            1. De Minimis*

              If I’m going to commit to working somewhere and spending at least 40 hours of my week there for an indefinite amount of time, I am going to have questions and if someone did not I would be skeptical of their seriousness about the job.

              Honestly, someone who has actually been working there before I would expect to have even more questions–about how the role might be different as a full time employee versus a temp [it did, considerably as far as responsibility.]

  37. surprisecanuk*

    At first I was impressed by all the stuff you do. Then the more I think about it the less impressed I am with some of it. I am impressed with the formality of your arrangement with your babysitter. I assume most people pay them under the table. However, I am less impressed with other things negotiating a lease with landlord and getting reimbursed from health insurance. These are very normal things. It also feels like you are really good at making small things seem like big important tasks. I would try to find a way to see if you can expand your current job, maybe take on additional roles at work to get more relevant experience.

    1. Jedi Squirrel*

      It also feels like you are really good at making small things seem like big important tasks.

      Yep, I got that impression, as well. Honestly, if I received a resume like this, it would seem that this is a person who likes a lot of drama. We don’t need that.

    2. Extroverted Bean Counter*

      It also feels like you are really good at making small things seem like big important tasks. I would try to find a way to see if you can expand your current job, maybe take on additional roles at work to get more relevant experience.

      This was my impression. OP’s life doesn’t sound substantially different that my typical 2 adult/2 child household other than having an additional adult and one less child, but it certainly made me feel better about all the mundane crap I do for my family.

      Use this optimistic, business-speak revision skill on your actual business skills OP! If you can make “being a fiscally savvy adult” sound like you’re running a business (which you emphatically do not) imagine what you can say about your paid employment as a director. A director! That’s great experience.

    3. Third or Nothing!*

      I feel you on that. First read-through was “HOLY GUACAMOLE,” second read-through was “wait a minute my husband and I do all that too, just without the spreadsheets and the Slack channel.”

      Currently creating the meal plan for next week in my Evernote shared notebook, cross-referencing my mental list of supplies available at home, budgeting how many snacks I’m going to need to bribe my toddler long enough to run a 5k, and creating a grocery list that I will reference when I put in the Instacart order tomorrow. Sounds impressive when I type it all out, but really it’s pretty ordinary.

      1. fposte*

        I’m wondering if the OP is putting more importance on it because they consider their enjoyment of running a household like this to indicate an aptitude, or even because they chose those particular methods with an eye to their being useful experience for workplace ambitions. And they’re not necessarily wrong about the inclination being useful–I know plenty of people who flourish in jobs that allow them to scratch their major personal itches–but that’s not enough to make it job-application significant for a position at this level.

        1. Third or Nothing!*

          Agreed. I happen to be very, very good at logistics, networking, and planning in my personal life. I would make a good volunteer coordinator I think. But I can’t point to all the stuff I do to plan reunions for my group of old college friends as relevant work experience…because it’s not.

          What OP (and I, perhaps) needs to do is find a volunteer position that would employ those skills in the same way that the target job would. THEN they would have relevant experience to add to a resume, plus some references who could speak to their work. Or they could look for avenues to utilize the skills in their current job.

          1. General von Klinkerhoffen*

            In an interview, or possibly in a cover letter, you could say, “When we built our house I found I really enjoyed coordinating contractors and managing the budget, so I moved into a junior PM position at work and gained my [relevant national or international qualification]. I’m now excited to move into a more senior/advanced/complex role.” The personal experience is context for a skill rather than evidence of the skill.

      2. Allypopx*

        “wait a minute my husband and I do all that too, just without the spreadsheets and the Slack channel.”

        Which are pretty optional, it seems. The slack channel in particular. And there’s nothing wrong with wanting to run your household this way, but using business jargon does not a business make.

  38. BRR*

    I have to say this is probably the best I’ve seen for portraying your household like a business, both in what you do and how you framed it. No matter how you talk about it or how well you do it, it still just sounds like being an adult. Maybe if you were applying for a house manager position but I really don’t think this would strengthen your candidacy.

    If anything it starts to drift into the territory of giving the impression that you would be someone who makes everything a big deal. Someone who is “always busy” even when they’re not.

    Given your letter, I think you’ll be able to frame things from your current job in your resume and cover letter that will strengthen your candidacy, while running a home isn’t something that makes you a stronger candidate.

    1. londonedit*

      Yes! I said above that I’d be concerned about looking like you’re too focused on your personal spreadsheets to actually do the job you’re being paid to do, but your point about coming off as someone who’s ‘always busy’ is totally also what I wanted to get at. Like…the vast majority of us have to ‘run our households’ and we don’t go around telling everyone how busy we are because we’ve been speaking to a landlord or keeping our finances in check.

  39. Yep s'me*

    I say don’t do it in a resume or cover letter, where you don’t know who you’re talking to and won’t be able to judge how it lands. There might be ways to bring some of it up in an interview situation, once you have a better read on your interviewers.

    Some things to be careful of, though. If they ask how you’ve done at managing a budget, you could answer first about your accomplishments at work, and maybe say that you were able to incorporate some of the things learned when managing household expenses … but you probably don’t want to tell them your household income is >$250K/year, since they will first divide by 2 or by 1, and make wrong conclusions about your salary expectations or about how you will value the job. Also, I’ve been part of a three-adults-plus-kids household myself, so that mention in your letter stuck up some kind of flag to me. I’d be inappropriately curious about whether you were in a polyamorous household or a different kind of communal-living situation, personal-me would be thinking you would be a breath of fresh air in a corporate environment, but corporate-lackey-me would be thinking inappropriate thoughts for a hiring situation (not that kind of inappropriate!) but thoughts like, do they have the kind of personal life that will go kaboom and distract them or cause a scene at work, are they maybe a little naive about how much to be telling in an interview, are they actually trying to be in-your-face about this to figure out whether we are going to be jerks about gender and sexuality, and do I need to alert my higher-ups to something about how this person might not fit in well …

    I do think that “Doing this at home is what’s making me want to do similar things for businesses” is something you could probably work into an interview.

    1. Autistic Farm Girl*

      That’s interesting, i understood the “3 adults” parts as “2 parents and one adult child” or “1 parent and 2 adult children”, especially when they talked about “staff meetings”, it felt very patronising within a household (maybe that’s just me), didn’t think about anything else. I’m going to go and re-read the letter now!

      1. Quill*

        Yeah, three adult household – I’m assuming your recent grad child is living with you, or a parent, or even a sibling. (Or it’s a household that’s all siblings, or we’ve got three roommates, or whatever…)

      2. One of the Sarahs*

        I read it as a throuple + child, but if it’s couple + high schooler/college kid + middle schooler, or couple + kid + friend-who-sublets-a-room, it would make me roll my eyes even more than I was already doing, because of the power imbalances in OP’s favour.

        2. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

          TIL the word “throuple” although of course I was aware of it as a concept (it’s out of my area of experience though). That’s what I assumed this was as well.

      3. Clisby*

        I thought the same. Or possibly one couple and one of their parents (i.e., the kid’s grandparent.) Polyamory didn’t even occur to me.

        1. Ray Gillette*

          My first thought was polyamory, but that’s because I’m familiar with the polyamory community and there are several things in the letter that I associate with that community even though they could technically apply to any household. There’s an in-group joke that polyamorous people introduce themselves by sharing their Google calendars, and that’s the general feeling that I got from this letter.

    2. Allison (not AAM)*

      True, very true. Explaining that doing the work at home and enjoying it more than your other tasks inspired you to pursue doing it professionally is valid. Trying to act like you’ve already been doing it at a quasi-professional level is not going to look good.

      1. Jules the 3rd*

        yeah, this – you can talk to it in the ‘why do you want to do this’ part of an interview, but you can’t write it down (in resume or cover letter) as if you already do it at a professional level.

  40. Autistic Farm Girl*

    Not going to lie, if i received a CV bragging about their income level and how they faff about with an interior architecture software i’d laugh, roll my eyes and then put it in the “no” pile. All it screams to me is “i’m completely disconnected from reality and believe that i’m somewhat special because i earn a lot of money” and it’s not a great look.

    The same way that when i received a cover letter saying that they wanted the job because they “need cash” it went into the no pile. We all do it, doesn’t mean I should give you a job based on that. (I also have a spreadsheet for budget, expenses and i monitor things, it’s a fairly normal thing to do, and it doesn’t make you a business).

      1. ThatGirl*

        Alison, not to be the gender police, and you can remove my comment, but the OP did specify they/them pronouns. :)

      2. madge*

        Agree. I assume they mentioned it because there would be more assets to manage in a $250k household than in a $30k household.

    2. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      I’d probably roll my eyes at this resume/CV as well but I don’t think OP is “bragging about their income level” (as I mentioned somewhere in a comment above) but probably more that they are trying to translate a $250k household income into “managing a $250k departmental budget” (which is an order of magnitude lower at least than an ‘Operations Director’ would typically manage, but I don’t think OP has the experience/insight to know that).

  41. Rollergirl09*

    Nothing grates on me more than a parent conflating their household duties with being a CFO/COO/HR whatever. I’ve seen SAHMs refer to themselves as the equivalent of a laundry list of different occupational positions from taxi driver to CEO to doctor (for managing boo boos). While being detail oriented and a proven multi-tasker are important skills, that does not in any way qualify you to actually DO any of those positions in the professional space. Does coaching your kid’s little league team qualify you to coach MLB? That’s how ridiculous the other claims sound.

    2. NotAnotherManager!*

      Not to mention that many of us who are not SAHPs also do all those things on top of the full-time job(s). My spouse and I work, and we still have to get the kids to school/activities, make and keep medical/dental appointments (which are more frequent for us due to having a kid with special needs), and maintain our home/cars/finances. Because of time constraints, I have to be very organized and proactive to get all this done. It doesn’t happen by magic, just because I happen to have a job outside the home.

  42. Allison (not AAM)*

    I work in talent acquisition as a candidate researcher – basically, I deal mostly with resumes and LinkedIn profiles of people who haven’t applied to the role but might be a good fit. Seeing people list being a parent as one of their “jobs” in their employment sections always makes me roll my eyes. I won’t necessarily pass on someone because of it, if they’re otherwise a good match for a job we’re struggling to fill, I realize they’re trying to explain an employment gap or make themselves marketable if they’re re-entering the workforce and I get it, but running a household isn’t the same as running a company, or being employed at one. It is work, it is a job, and it’s a respectable role in the household, but please don’t make it include it in your work history and format it the way you’d format employment, don’t list your “duties” or name yourself as the CEO of your family. It’s hokey and cringey.

    1. Jedi Squirrel*

      I realize they’re trying to explain an employment gap or make themselves marketable if they’re re-entering the workforce and I get it

      I honestly am not bothered by these things at all. The days when you got out of school and worked for the same company until retirement are long gone.

      People have lives. They take time off from work to care for parents, kids, go back to school, whatever. As long as they have a reasonable explanation for it, it’s never a problem for me. But please tell me what value you can bring as a professional to our organization. That’s what we’re hiring for.

      1. Allison (not AAM)*

        I didn’t say it bothered me. If anything, I was trying to communicate that I understood why people did this, even though I don’t agree with it. The intention is good, the execution is poor. Does that make sense? Or do you still think I’m a judgmental buttface?

        1. Jedi Squirrel*

          No, no, no judgmental buttface. I’m sorry if that came across wrong.

          I’m in total agreement with you. It’s better to be upfront about those gaps, rather than do something weird like OP wants to.

    2. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      (I’m genuinely asking:) as a ‘candidate researcher’ (I’ve never heard this term before, but it’s clear what you do! Thanks for adding to my lexicon!) you will no doubt come across people with a gap in their history whether that’s due to being a parent, being laid off and didn’t find a role right away, taking time out to ‘find themselves’ or whatever it may be.

      What do you look more favorably on, or do you not make a judgement at that point? e.g. 2 years “maternity leave and stay-at-home-parent” (hopefully not listing responsibilities as being Nutrition Outreach Manager i.e. breastfeeding, etc, though..) vs just listing the factual dates of employment like 2011-2013 then 2015-2019 (or whatever) with no explanation for the gap?

    3. Julia*

      As a woman, I’d be too scared to put children on my resume. I don’t even have any and still have interviewers ask about my plans to have them because I am of childbearing age.

  43. Chili*

    I want to echo that this could be nice to mention in an interview, but from a “this is how I am as a person” standpoint rather than a “I am listing this as past job experience” perspective. I wouldn’t necessarily dive deep into all of the details of your family members’ credit scores, but saying “I am a really organized person and am especially meticulous financially. My family members even refer to me as the CFO/COO” would probably get the point across.

    But if you were a director of a department, it will always be more important to mention that and financial things you did there more than anything you have done in your personal life.

    1. annie o moous*

      I was wondering if hobbies were brought up in an interview, they could mention something like this. I enjoy managing my family’s finances and helping my family members find ways to save money and pay off debt?

      1. DarthVelma*

        I do something similar when discussing my Excel skills. I focus on all the ways I’ve used it at work and on having written and presented both basic and intermediate Excel training for a large state agency. But I also give them some insight into who I am as a person by mentioning I’m the only person I know whose holiday shopping list is a 4 tab Excel document with a pivot table. :-)

    2. LawLady*

      Yeah, the interview is an okay place to mention this, if it comes up organically. When I was interviewing, I was simultaneously wedding planning. My fiance came up in almost every interview, because every employer wanted to know why I wanted to move to that city. In a few interviews, we briefly discussed wedding planning, and I was able to note that I had everything planned in a pretty intense spreadsheet. That showed organization as a facet of my personality, but I wouldn’t have included it on my resume.

  44. nnn*

    In addition to what everyone else has said, this could also backfire if your interviewer perceives running their own household to be more difficult than running your household.

    For example, many households have fewer than 3 adults, and less than $250,000 to work with. Many households have more children than adults. Many households have only one adult, who is doing everything you’re doing plus all the childcare plus earning 100% of the income.

    Some people keep track of all this stuff in their head and are wondering why you need spreadsheets.

    Some people have lower debt tolerance, and may be wondering how responsible you really are if you need to carry debt and take out loans and had low credit scores with a household income of $250,000.

    I say this not to cast aspersions on how you manage your life and your home – I’m sure you’re doing what’s right for your family! – but rather to point out that to some audiences, this all might not be received positively.

    1. LawLady*

      I agree, and I think it also might invite people to judge OP’s lifestyle. Part of the reason that private life things aren’t appropriate for resumes is that you don’t want your life choices to be part of the assessment of you as a candidate. (I get that some things will come up regardless, because you’re wearing a wedding ring or because you mention your kids in passing or whatever, but I wouldn’t want it to be a focus.)
      Things like childcare (nanny v. daycare v. a parent staying home), how large of a mortgage to take out, living in a 3-adult household, whether any members of the household are married, etc. are all SUCH private choices, and most people have opinions about them (because they’re life choices we all have to make ourselves).

      1. pamplemousse*

        Yeah, this seems like an underrated facet of this. Especially if the 3rd adult is not someone who’s connected to you through your families of origin, this may be something that you want to be careful of disclosing. (“My mother-in-law/sister/brother lives with us and helps take care of our son” is relatively common; “we have an unrelated adult living with us as a roommate” is less so; “we’re a thruple and share custody of our child” is less common still.)

    3. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      I hadn’t considered this aspect but you are absolutely right.

      I get the sense OP is part of a (for want of a better word) “non-conventional” arrangement in their household… (which I learned a new word, earlier in this thread could be a “throuple”) I don’t make any judgement about that but also I see that the majority of households with more than 1 ‘parent’/analogue parent have 2 adults and some number (0 to whatever) of children. And I don’t know how it is in the States but translating it to UK currency where I am… the vast majority of households here have way less than the equivalent of $250k (or even if you “normalized” it and I use the word in both senses… to $170k).

      You didn’t mention the households where there is 1 earner and 1 stay-at-home-parent, or housewife/husband, or “freeloader” (I’m not conflating these, just saying they are possibilities)

      What’s a more impressive achievement? To “manage the budget” of a $250k income household with spreadsheets and stuff? Or to hold it together yet again, somehow, earning minimum wage at some dead-end job you all could get laid off from at any point, and somehow make the money work out…. calling in favours, ‘negotiating’ with food pantries, and so on … I just really don’t think “managing the budget” of a very comfortably off household is equivalent in any way to being a COO.

      I had to do all this stuff (minus the babysitter) years ago when I left home, lived by myself and earned the UK exchange equivalent of $940 per month and had to pay rent of $380 per month… in a full time professional job (that I still put on my resume/cv because it is still career relevant believe it or not).

      Perhaps I could parlay my experience in “living in a minimalist expenditure way” to a Director job?: Implemented cost control initiatives. Closely tracked budgets and assessed projected expenditure vs budgetary balances. Made priority calls in emergent and unforeseen situations. Allocated resources as necessary dependent on upcoming project priorities.

    1. Tinker*

      That.

      I relate to the feeling that I have skills that come from my personal life that (currently) are not strongly reflected in things that make good resume items. I am the same person in and out of work, so it’s not as if I don’t have these skills because of the building I’m in when I used them.

      However, if I am the same person in and out of work, then if I work at it surely I will have work accomplishments that point to these same traits, and then I can speak to them without having very weird interview conversations about my household management / medical diagnoses / interactive theater characters / etc.

      OP is employed and in a job of notable seniority (like, ok, if “director” means the same thing there as here, they’re senior to me), so I’d think if they looked a bit they could find a venue for many of these skills at work.

  46. One of the Sarahs*

    I’m guessing OP might be thinking the fact their household is three adults and one child makes a difference, but there are tons of people out there working full time and running complicated households (single mother living with 2 teens, a young adult in college and a working adult child with a baby; blended families with kids of different ages being coordinated across different households; multi-generational households; 5 young adults living together; people with caring responsibilities etc etc) and chances are, lots of people reading the resume will have their own complications that would make them question why OP sees their household as more note-worthy.

    Personally, a lot of the way OP describes this work rubs me up the wrong way, and my head is full of questions: why does OP do such a disproportionate amount of work? Why do they have such a high turnover of babysitters (including ones they’ve terminated) that they think dealing with recruitment etc is equivalent to an HR role? Plus, as others have said, the “staff meetings” when OP paints themself as the only responsible one? And none of these are things anyone wants a hiring manager to think!

    I completely get that OP is excited to explore new avenues, and a lot of this seems like hyperbole (I’m the same – in the right mood, *everything* is a transferable skill). But including things like the home decorating really does give off the wrong impression – and as mentioned upthread, the comment about saving the other adults’ credit scores reads like a red flag for a micromanager, and could be read as passive aggressive digs at the family members.

    I’m sure you don’t mean any of this, OP, but if you feel you have to include these things, or you won’t get a job, maybe you should work on getting outside experience first: as a treasurer for a community organisation, or board member of a non-profit etc etc, where you can prove the skills in an environment where you’re accountable to people without the cushion of love/friendship/family to soften any conflict.

    1. Joielle*

      Agreed! The way a lot of this stuff is described… well, at best, it invites a lot of questions. Most interviewers aren’t going to probe on personal topics (“Wait, how many babysitters for your one kid have you had to fire? Especially with three adults around to help with childcare?”) so it’s just sort of a weird negative impression hanging out there.

      Like you, I got the impression that OP thinks a household with three adults and three incomes is more complicated, but I don’t think that’s necessarily the case and that assumption could really rub people the wrong way. There’s no benefit to bringing any of this up and a lot of potential harm, so I’d just stay away from it altogether.

    2. Jules the 3rd*

      I think OP’s just translated their work into business-speak, as many people have done, but was able to take it one step further than most because of the household structure / size, and because they were able to point to measurable accomplishments (debt reduction, credit scores), which most people don’t.

      I’m not uncomfortable with the description or workload (though it’s not how I choose to spend my time; automation is my friend…), with that kind of income you could easily get distracted with retirement account balancing or other financial things. I know I sometimes use ‘tweaking my net worth tracker’ to distract me from ‘have to go rake the yard.’

    3. Oh So Anon*

      lots of people reading the resume will have their own complications that would make them question why OP sees their household as more note-worthy

      OMG, this, this, this exactly. There’s something about all of this that, probably unintentionally, sends a weird message that their family status inherently makes them a more responsible person or something, and this may leak into their interactions with people who have different types of households. There’s also an element of privilege that will make it difficult for OP to avoid giving that impression as a relatively affluent, married (I’m assuming they are married or common-law with one of the other adults) parent.

    4. Diamond*

      I don’t think OP does a disproportionate amount of work… they mention the other adults do most of the childcare, shopping and cooking. They also mention cleaning services. Those are the big-ticket items to me! OP seems to do the more occasional/one-off tasks (I mean… how often do you have to negotiate a lease? Buy furniture? Fire and hire babysitters??)

  47. CJ*

    When she first mentioned payroll I thought it was a really overblown way of saying each family members spending money. But later she actually mentions hiring a payroll tax compliance company to take care of this. WTF?

    1. AvonLady Barksdale*

      The payroll tax compliance company is to cover the salary for the babysitter. It strikes me as one of those things that’s great for covering your bases but not absolutely necessary. But it does ensure that the babysitter gets paid properly and that the taxes are handled appropriately.

      1. Extroverted Bean Counter*

        Well in the sentence about payroll, they only specify allocating each household members’ spending allowance.

        “pay bills and payroll (each household member has a personal bank account separate from the household accounts and gets a weekly allowance)”

        Which I also thought was confusing, given they have actual payroll of sorts that they perform. There’s no need to inflate “we have a shared account and I’m the designated person to move $X/month into the other adults’ personal accounts” into something it is not.

        1. AvonLady Barksdale*

          And now that you point that out… if someone came to me bragging about doling out a weekly allowance as “payroll”, I would be really curious about their way of behaving at home, and not in a positive way. One of those situations where behavior that might be very helpful for an individual household and budget can also come across as super controlling.

    3. Jules the 3rd*

      A payroll tax co to ensure that the 20hr/week baby sitter is paid correctly is *totally* reasonable.

      The rules are arcane, and failing to follow them can lead to fines or even derail your career. They (not she) are quite smart to outsource that piece. The documentation alone is valuable, the not having to learn tax codes is priceless.

      1. Count Boochie Flagrante*

        Yeah. Normally you don’t think a babysitter merits that, but 20hr/week is regular domestic help, not the teenager you pay so you and your spouse(s) can go have dinner once a month. If anything, I think the OP may have undersold themselves slightly on that one, referencing a babysitter rather than a nanny (ironic, compared with the rest of the letter).

        1. madge*

          Yes. I love numbers and interpreting regulations but we have an accountant for our small business employees. I have zero interest in playing the tax game as the stakes are way too high.

        2. Antilles*

          Sure, but I would have assumed that you’d hire a company to handle all that for you. Effectively the same as hiring a weekly lawn care service or a housekeeping company or whatever – pay Dana’s Childcare Company $400 a week, DCC subcontracts to Nancy the Nanny, and DCC is responsible for complying with labor laws, payroll taxes, business registration, etc.

          1. Ann Perkins*

            I’m sure that sort of setup exists, but that’s not the norm for nannies. I’m in a city of 500K and we definitely do not have a nanny service like that. There’s full time and part time daycare centers and in-home centers, drop-in centers where you pay on an hourly basis, and nannies. Typically a family is going to interview nannies themselves to pick one. Sometimes a couple families can even go in on a nanny share to make it more cost effective for the families and help raise the nanny’s pay rate.

          2. The Man, Becky Lynch*

            These exist.

            But also people who are just piecing together side-gigs exist just as much.

            Why rely on absolute strangers working at Dana’s Daycare when you know Julie from Church and Julie from Church is happy to be your employee?

            The employment laws for having a single part time employee on your payroll is minimal and doesn’t require much at all. And those small businesses have their own set of issues that come along with it, including the person being able to be fired by Dana’s when you want to keep them on…

      2. Cat*

        Companies exist that specifically do this service for people hiring nannies. I’m not saying they’re always super simple to use – there can be complications. But it’s not like using corporate payroll software.

    4. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      It’s the legal way to do things for someone you hire to work in your home on that kind of level.

      If you’re paying someone say $15 an hour for babysitting 20hrs a week, that’s $300 a week. That’s $15600 a year. That’s taxable income and they are not actually a 1099 contractor so you shouldn’t send them that. Unless this person is a business/has their own insurance, licensing for care giving and has their own LLC and does billing, then they are charging even MORE for overhead. But really, they should be on a W2 most often.

    5. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      OP mentions it in 2 contexts. They are paying the babysitter (probably actual payroll on a small scale), but OP also says that they pay amounts into the bank accounts of the ‘housemates’ and also describes that as payroll, which muddies it.

      1. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

        “payroll (each household member has a personal bank account separate from the household accounts and gets a weekly allowance)”

  48. Paper Jam*

    I absolutely buy that you have stellar project management abilities that allow you to run a household extremely effectively. But I would think about how that skill, which has allowed you to run your household as it has, has been used in your professional life and what accomplishments were achieved because of that. This is a case where using home examples like this would be out of touch because everyone manages their household to some degree. The value here is your organizational skill, so think about how you can show that off via your professional achievements!

  49. Quill*

    Work experience is from work (paid or volunteer) so save the household organization for when you don’t have a work related story for the interview question “can you give an example of how you’ve managed to reduce costs without compromising on efficiency” or something like that.

  50. goducks*

    Reads title..”No.”
    Reads first few sentences…”Oh no, definitely no”.
    Reads further.. “oh no, no, no, no, no!”

  51. Annastasia von Beaverhausen*

    Yah, Alison is 100% correct here.

    I received a resume/cover letter where the person had listed their home duties in the way you describe. Honestly, it was cringe worthy. In that case it was someone wanting to re-enter the workforce after being a stay at home parent and I wish they would have focused on that. It would be fine to mention that you were the Registrar of your child’s soccer league in the hobbies section (for instance) but treating your house work – i.e. being an adult – as a separate job from your actual job isn’t going to hit well.

    Because that’s the thing – everyone has to manage their home work to a certain extent. It sounds like you’re very efficient at it, and I hope your partners and child appreciate it, but an employer is going to think its weird at best, or horribly out of touch at worst.

    Focus on your actual job accomplishments.

  52. goducks*

    As a person whose career has been the executive overseeing of Finance/HR/IT/Facilities (VP Administrative Services), and as a human being who does those tasks in my own household, I can assure OP that they are in no way comparable.

    1. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      I’ve no experience of this in a professional context (I’m a tech nerd and individual contributor) but it’s obvious even to me that they are 2 totally separate things and not in any way on the same level.

  53. Zeee*

    I have typed a response a few times but it just gets long and rambly. I work in corporate operations and there are a lot of misconceptions about what some of us actually do. Do you know anyone that has a job like you’re aiming for? If so, have you spoken to them about what their job actually entails and what their day-to-day looks like? It can vary company to company and so much based on what the company does, their size, and so many factors!

    All that to say… Please do not use this on your resume! You will look so out of touch, especially for the level of position you are applying for. If you can’t get that job with your current work experience, you may need to aim for a lower level position and work your way up. So many people do what you do at home – you sound great about it but, I’m sorry, so are a lot of people! And at the companies I’ve worked for, it wouldn’t be relevant for the COO, Director/VP of Operations, or equvialnt! You might oversee staff that does that, but that is not what your days would look like.

  54. Bernice Clifton*

    Sometimes people treat single people with no kids like they haven’t met some life benchmark. This has happened to me much more often in my personal life, but it has happened in the workplace. If I got a resume with this much emphasis on a candidate’s family, I would be concerned that you might be one of those people who would treat me and other colleagues accordingly.

    2. Extroverted Bean Counter*

      You manage your own finances and pay your own bills, but are you even a competent adult if you aren’t doing it for someone else, too?

      /s

    4. Mediamaven*

      This. I had a SAHM mom friend explain to me that it’s hard running a household. While children certainly adds a level of complexity I don’t have, I still have to run a household. It felt a bit insulting. I’m also running a company, which is also hard. We really need to stop making things a competition.

      1. AnotherAlison*

        Some SAHMs also explain this to women with kids and jobs outside the home. Umm, all households require the same basic stuff to be done by someone.

        1. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

          I think there are 2 tiers of things to be done in households, though.
          1) Paying bills, basic maintenance (things that will get worse if you don’t do them), putting the trash out, doing the laundry so that people will have something to wear for the next week, dealing with repair people when you don’t have any hot water, etc.
          2) more optional stuff like vacuuming regularly, lawn maintenance, repairs and improvements that are longer-term in nature, general cleaning (windows etc), house decoration and maintenance that isn’t strictly necessary but now you have a 4 foot coke stain up your wall, etc.

          Maintaining the house can take up pretty much as long as you let it take up, but there are incremental returns.

          If I were the “other partner” to the SAHP I’d be thinking about whether it adds so much to stay at home vs what they could contribute if going back to work, though.

          1. Alexandra Lynch*

            At least in my case, in my triad, they work and I stay home. (Well, currently one works and one is in school. She will work soon.) In our case it is because they both have some pretty severe mental health challenges, and sometimes getting through the day without a meltdown, a personality switch, or a manic episode is all they can manage, and they genuinely need someone to put dinner in front of them, make sure their bedroom is cleaned and their clothes get washed, and tell them to go have a shower and go to bed on time. Having to call the plumber about that slow shower drain is one thing too many for them. They will not remember to pick up their meds. I do all that. They are almost embarrassingly grateful.

      2. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

        I’m not disagreeing with you! But as a happily childless person… what I hear from my friends and colleagues who do have children it does seem much more complex and regimented (and they aren’t generally “drama queen/king” types… they just get bogged down in practicalities) and my own life without children does seem so much simpler in comparison. Pretty much every day there’s something to organise for school. Some injury or
        incident. You have to do their homework for them (yeah, I don’t know what that is about).. etc.

        Of course, I have had the conversation with them many times where it turns out I’m “less of a person”, or “not fulfilled” or my life is “frivolous” or “lacks real meaning” and so on. I know the value of these people’s comments, and I do respect that we each live our own way but I resent the implication that I’m somehow “less”, even so.

    5. madge*

      I’m a parent but on behalf of my childfree brother and sister-in-law, thank you for this reminder. It’s amazing how many people assume no kids equals party life.

    6. Arctic*

      I think that would be a huge overreach and you shouldn’t make an effort to find the least kind interpretation on people you are hiring.

      1. Oh So Anon*

        It’s a bit of an overreach, but in my experience the relatively few people who make a remarkably big deal of their role as parents are almost always the ones who will have trouble relating to single adults without children as adult peers. It’s never something I would make a firm determination on just from a resume, or even from an interview, though.

  55. Health Insurance Nerd*

    So, you have in-home childcare, pay your bills on time, renegotiate the lease for your home every year or so, periodically rearrange the furniture, and buy new appliances when the old ones break? You’re a fully functioning adult, congratulations! Do not list any of this on your resume, millions of people are doing what you do every day, because that’s what being a grown up entails.

    1. Joielle*

      And not only are the tasks themselves pretty mundane, the OP overinflating them would make me wonder about other things listed on their resume. Like, if their resume says they managed departmental communications, does that actually mean they just sent out a weekly update email? Does “ensured site security” just mean “locked the office door at night”? Etc. There’s no good reason to use any of this stuff, so best to avoid any potential issues and leave it out altogether.

      1. One of the Sarahs*

        This is really important! If they’re describing distributing money to their family members as “payroll” and family meetings as “staff meetings” etc, I would take the least charitable view of their work. Especially because a lot of the achievements seem like they’re rare, or one-and-done, whether it’s using the architectural software to place the furniture, or managing the regular bills/”payroll” (I set up the joint account and the standing orders/direct debits about 13 years ago, and it’s maybe 30 mins every couple of years to update bills etc, especially with online/phone banking.)

  56. Rusty Shackelford*

    I can see using some of this to explain why you’re looking to change directions in your career. “In my personal life, I manage our family’s budget/did these payroll things/etc. I enjoy it and I’m good at it, which made me realize I’d like to do this on a professional level.” But don’t call it experience. It’s no more relevant than me saying “I love to shop at Target, so I think I have the skills to be an employee.”

    2. Extroverted Bean Counter*

      This was approximately what I did in my application for grad school for the “personal statement” portion, as I was applying for a business degree when I had a BA in the humanities and a decade of work experience in the service industry. I just spun my personal interest in finances and business management into the reason I was looking to do something so drastically outside my experience.

    4. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      OP seems to want to jump from a relatively junior “manager of small department” (even if it did have ‘Director’ in the title) to a ‘Director of Operations at a Big Company’ and doesn’t have work accomplishments to back it up so seeks to parlay their own experience managing a household (with a $250k budget! They oversaw procurement, day-to-day ops, selection of contractors, contract negotiations…!) into experience they can use to secure a Ops Director job at $BigCompany.

      I wish OP had elaborated more about what their actual responsibilities are as the current “X Director”.

  57. Amethystmoon*

    I would say if resumes are still supposed to have skill sections, you could list organization and time-management as skills, but running a household isn’t really a paid job unless one is doing something like being a professional Butler or such. Can you find a volunteer position doing things like this for an organization when not working? That at least could get you a job reference, and you can list it as a volunteer job.

  58. Ginger*

    OP – we don’t get credit for #adulting

    To be honest, if I saw those items on a resume, I would seriously question your judgement and professional acumen. It comes off as bragging about doing things that most of us do as well, except without the fanfare and without the lofty self imposed titles. I think you thought you were being creative but it really misses the mark. Sorry if that sounds harsh.

  59. Kristinyc*

    OP – You do sound like you’re going above and beyond with how you’re managing your household. Since that’s what you seem to enjoy and have a knack for doing – maybe you could find a way to productize/monetize that? Like, a “household management consultant” where you help families get their finances in order and give them spreadsheet templates and other resources to do this. Maybe write a blog or do a Youtube channel or something.

    It is a valuable skillset for sure, but employers won’t necessarily see it that way.

    1. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      I thought of suggesting that, but OP seems convinced they are on track to be Director of Operations and just need to find the wording to catapult them into that position.

  60. SerialFreelancer*

    Agree to just highlight this in a cover letter. Depending on the job or company, something like this may be appropriate: “My passion for organization, administration, and even HR has spilled over into my home life, where I’m meticulous about X, Y, and Z.”

    1. Jules the 3rd*

      no. Really, don’t write it down. Maybe mention in an interview that you’ve done X at home and enjoyed it enough that you want to go that direction professionally, but *only* if you can’t find an equivalent task / experience from work. And not HR at all, because hiring babysitters, even long-term or multiple ones and finding a payroll company, is not the same as HR.

  61. Formerly Known As*

    Wow. I’m sure the LW means well, but this comes across as grandiose and out of touch. I would toss this resume if I saw it.

    LW–please, please, focus your resume on the accomplishments you’ve made at your arts/media job.

    1. Grace*

      I agree, this letter feels like the OP is saying regular moms don’t negotiate, pay home employees, use spreadsheets for home expenses.

      1. Formerly Known As*

        Or how about those of us who aren’t parents at all? I’m single and wholly responsible for the bills and household maintenance. And it may be just me I’m responsible for, but I don’t have a housekeeper or other help. If I don’t do it or pay a service provider for maintenance/repairs, it doesn’t get done.

  62. Mystery Bookworm*

    Another detail you may not have considered, OP, is that putting all this on a resume effectively implies that the running of your household is your potential employer’s business. It opens the door to them asking all sorts of probing questions and feeling entitled to the answer and it puts it all under their purview for judgement.

    An employer who would hire you with this on your resume may not have the sort of boundaries that you’d like, and others might be turned off because they worry about your boundaries.

    1. Oh No She Di'int*

      This is a really good point. If it’s on the resume, then yes, you would then have to be willing to answer all sorts of questions about it and how you did the job–just as you would for any other position, including for example, what was your worst “customer” complaint or what didn’t you get right?

  63. Small Biz Escapee*

    The only POSSIBLE way I would ever weave this in would be if she had a personal line on her resume. I’m an editor and on my resume early in my career, I had a “personal” line that read, “Hobbies: Reading, writing and finding typos in the newspaper.” My boss later told me that one line was why he brought me in for an interview.

    Maybe she’d want to put in the personal part of her resume that she’s an excellent planner and enjoys balancing budgets?

    But other than that, I would avoid conflating her personal organizational skills with anything work-related. It screams of being a #girlboss (ick.)

  64. Ms. Green Jeans*

    A potential employer could not check references on this type of work in an appropriate way. And when you do drop the ball, how do you document the error and track improvement?

      1. Crivens!*

        I want to tell myself that it’s the perceived level of privilege but I can’t help but think that the LWs perceived gender and stated gender identity are playing a large part in the snarky, borderline cruel response from the commentors.

          1. Crivens!*

            The thing is you wouldn’t be able to tell. It could just be that the response would be less harsh and less based on some gross assumptions about “mommy-jacking” and such if the LW was assumed to be a man.

            1. Anonymous Poster*

              I’ve wondered if I was being oversensitive (same gender ID, same perception) but got a little of the same vibe.

            2. Extroverted Bean Counter*

              The “mommy jacking” comments are out of line, but I will admit to having a pretty big negative personal reaction due to my personal circumstances. Mostly I’m just jealous that I only have one other adult in my home (my husband) and we have two little kids and not just the one because I do everything the OP does and more (like cooking, cleaning, and childcare) but with just slightly less organization.

              I don’t think people would be talking of “mommy jacking” if they perceived OP to be a man, no. I do think we’d be getting flooded with unkind comments about how “you’re turning a very average woman’s life [given that women tend to be the ‘household managers’ in most relationships] into something businessy, it’s not any more special because you’re using Slack, my dude.”

            3. Ask a Manager* Post author

              In my experience running the site, I don’t think so! If the OP were perceived to be a man, they’d also be getting a lot of “wake up, dude, women do this all the time and none of us put it on our resumes.”

              I think people are reacting to what feels like a lack of appreciation for the fact that most people do this kind of routine life maintenance (and some people may be reading a tone of misplaced superiority into the letter) and how much harder it is for people in circumstances different from the OP’s.

              I’ll put a note at the top reminding people to be kind and constructive, though.

              1. Crivens!*

                Thanks, Alison! Your good and kind moderation is, as always, appreciated!

                (I don’t know why that feels like it sounds sarcastic, but I absolutely mean it)

              2. Allison (not AAM)*

                I’ve seen resumes and LI profiles of men who took time away from their careers to be stay-at-home dads, or care for chronically ill children or elderly family members, and while I see nothing wrong with doing it, I want that person to be able to reenter the workforce if they are indeed ready to do so, I’m equally annoyed when they try to spin it as a “job” instead of just mentioning it to explain an employment gap.

              3. Oh So Anon*

                Y’know, I wonder if part of the challenge with interpreting the OP’s tone is not one of actual superiority, but just a degree of social awkwardness that makes them not recognize how this comes across. When I think about it, most of the few people I’ve come across who seem like the OP show up that way because of some combination of over-explaining or, well, obliviousness.

                1. Yorick*

                  That could be, but I think this seems like the Geek Social Fallacy I’ve read Captain Awkward talk about.

            4. Jules the 3rd*

              hunh – while I know OP’s non-binary, I read the tone of the letter as much more masculine than feminine. If I were going to misgender them, I’d have used male pronouns.

              Based on that context, I thought much of the vitriol was due to feeling like OP was claiming extraordinary virtue for stuff other people do all the time. It felt… like a reaction to the way many men expect praise for ‘babysitting’ their own kids, or for doing the dishes when asked.

              I’m not saying that OP was truly claiming extra virtue, just saying that I can see where people are getting that vibe from the question and social context.

              1. Extroverted Bean Counter*

                That’s largely where my negative reaction is coming from. Not even from a gendered perspective, for me I think it was a backlash against what seems to be awfully privileged circumstances. The household income aside (idk where they live, Manhattan for all I know) the privilege of having the time and energy to do all that household management by virtue of having two other adults around who do the majority of childcare, cleaning, shopping, and cooking is substantial. That’s truly the vast majority of household labor, you know?

                So my gut reaction, informed by what is honestly envy at the situation, was a bitter “you aren’t a qualified business person because you bought a new fridge, sheesh.” The elevating of the responsibilities reads (to me) to be a sort of tone-deaf overreach rather than an earnest pride in the household work they do.

                1. Yorick*

                  Right, and I got a sense that they think all this work they do is *so much and so impressive.* There was a part with the vibe of “with all that I do around here, you must be thinking the other 2 adults who live here don’t do anything, amirite? But don’t worry, they actually most of the important household work.”

                  But actually these things they’ve listed are things we all do, and most of us do it with significantly less money, and most of us also have to do significantly more household labor at the same time.

        2. Rusty Shackelford*

          I can’t help but think that the LWs perceived gender and stated gender identity are playing a large part

          I disagree, based on the response to previous LWs with similar questions.

        3. Observerette*

          I do think this letter is hitting a nerve with people on a few layers. In addition to what you stated (and possibly the polycule/third adult), I also think people are reacting subconsciously to the income and the pride in the letter. Sometimes people are really put off by another person feeling proud, which is a shame. Also, people seem to be confused that the OP did not actually write a resume, and people are judging the letter as if it came across their desks verbatim.

          1. DarnTheMan*

            Disagree. I don’t think anyone is being off that OP takes pride in their home. That’s great, OP should be proud! But the disconnect that a lot of people seem to be picking up on is being awesome at home stuff has a completely different set of “success” criteria from being awesome at work (especially when, as many commenters pointed out, there’s usually no one holding you accountable for “success” at home) so while you may be awesome and successful in your home life, this may not transfer to your work life and it seems like a reach to suggest that managing family finances would somehow translate to managing a company payroll.

          2. Lora*

            The income and the situation of having other adults who share maintenance tasks stings because it’s REALLY privileged. The vast majority of people have far, far less household income, and many many have more dependents and fewer adults to share tasks with. The vast majority of people are trying to make all the same things somehow work out – bills, childcare, home maintenance – with a lot less resources and help. We’ve all been through some sh!t, as the song goes, and most people have managed through far more grueling situations.

          3. The Gollux, Not a Mere Device*

            I also thought polycule–and I know two different people who are the stay-at-home spouse for their polycules. They don’t use business terminology, unless you count the one whose wife described her role as “chatelaine.” I can see my friend referring to that if she was trying to re-enter the workforce–if only because they might be asked “what have you been doing since 2013?”–but not trying to put it on her resume as “business manager,” because her partners are not her employer.

        5. Mia*

          I think it has *significantly* more to do with the whopping amount of privilege and stark lack of self-awareness than their gender, and I’m saying that as a member of the broader trans community. Misgendering comments are shitty for sure, but a vast majority of the comments I’m seeing don’t do that and are more along the lines of “please don’t put this on your resume, lest you make yourself look like an out-of-touch micromanager.”

        6. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

          I may be stoopid about these things but I didn’t take into account OPs gender/[identity] (other than that I saw they wanted to be referred to as they/them and so I used those accordingly) in any of my comments.

          I don’t think OPs gender (/gender identity) plays in to this in any significant way, but perhaps there are still stereotypes about that.

          Why do you think it is about gender / gender identity? I am genuinely asking for my own knowledge, as I got the impression that regardless of what you think about privilege, income, ability to hire babysitters etc… these are issues that apply regardless of gender. Please do tell me where I’ve gone wrong here if I have.

        7. Anon right now*

          I had a strong feeling about this letter as I was reading it, before even seeing that the OP is non binary. I’d feel the same way about anyone writing this type of letter regardless of gender.

      2. Chili*

        Yeah, I think a lot of commenters could have been kinder with their responses. I really hope LW is able to ignore some of the less charitable commentary.
        I do think knowing that this sort of statement has the capacity to rub people the wrong way is valuable to the LW. This applies to a lot of things, but especially finances, household management, and childrearing: if you assert that you do something really well and give details, you are opening yourself up to a lot of judgement and criticism. People get defensive and will look for ways to claim you’re wrong. It’s generally better to not bring that sort of stuff up with people you don’t know well, especially not in the workplace.

        1. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

          At the risk of being deemed “unkind” myself… I think the OP could probably benefit overall from many of the responses that you deem ‘could have been kinder’ and ‘less charitable’.

    2. Heidi*

      I’m finding most of the comments by themselves express disapproval of OP’s approach but are not excessively unkind. The volume of negative feedback is a lot, though. It’s like if you show an outfit to 5 people and 4 of them say it looks bad, it’s still only 4 people. Here, it’s like showing an outfit to a thousand people and having 800 of them tell you it looks bad. The distribution of opinion is the same, but the number of comments is a lot to handle.

      1. Crivens!*

        The number of comments plus the frequent misgendering. And yeah, perhaps people just didn’t read that far, but I’d still feel awful if I was the LW and I got this kind of pushback AND got misgendered consistently in the comments.

        1. Cat*

          Fair enough but this site has long used female pronouns as the default so I think it’s a lot less suspect here than it would be elsewhere. It’s a long letter and it’s not surprising not everyone picked up on the pronouns at the end.

          1. Count Boochie Flagrante*

            No, it’s not less suspect. It’s right there in the letter and there’s no excuse for missing it any more than there would be for commenters missing a letter writer saying “I am male” or “I am female.” Which rarely, if ever, happens.

            1. Cat*

              It’s not the convention for letter writers to state pronouns here though so it’s not surprising that people weren’t looking for it. And it is th convention to use female pronouns. Semi regularly Allison says “actually that letter writer is a man” in response to comments using default female pronouns.

              1. fposte*

                Yes, we misgender people even when they’re explicitly indicated as male with relative frequency. I’m willing to consider that we should rethink the default female tendency, but I don’t think the examples of misgendering today have unique significance.

                1. Myrin*

                  And also, commenters on here miss stuff that is clearly spelled out in letters all the time. I get that this feels more personal because gender identity is more personal but structurally, this is no different from commenters talking about an OP’s problematic coworker when the person OP has a problem with is actually the coworker’s spouse who just shows up every day.

        2. Myrin*

          There are literally four out of, as I’m writing this, 376 comments misgendering OP, and three of those have the very first reply correcting them. I get that even once can feel discouraging and aggravating when you’ve gone so far as to explicitly state your pronouns, but it’s not “consistent” or widespread in any way.

          1. Crivens!*

            Believe me, misgendering feels pretty damn frequent when it keeps popping up, even if it’s “only” four times.

            1. Myrin*

              Which I acknowledged by saying “I get that even once can feel discouraging and aggravating”.
              But it’s still factually untrue, and I don’t think it helps discussion to present anything – and I really do mean “anything”, we’ve talked about this here before regarding a wide array of topics – as “consistent” or “a majority of comments” or even “everyone” when that is demonstrably not the case.
              An environment where 320 of 376 comments (willfully and uncontestedly) misgender a person is a very different one from one where 4 out of 376 misgender someone and immediately get corrected, and I don’t think it’s very practical to treat both as one and the same.

              1. The Gollux, Not a Mere Device*

                Four times in one day very much is, though, and if the LW is reading the comments, that’s how it’s more likely to feel to them. That “only” a small percentage of people misgender the LW isn’t going to make those four incidents harmless. Very few cis people would call it “infrequent” if one in every hundred people we talked to misgendered us–and few cis people are misgendered as much as one percent of the time.

                1. Avasarala*

                  But anonymously/online? On a forum that has a strong cultural convention of using female pronouns as default?

                  My impression based on my experience reading the site is that male LWs are misgendered quite often as well. And that commenters often assume female pronouns based on convention/details in the story and don’t read the letter carefully to check whether or not pronouns were stated.

                  It may very well be a further level of pushback because OP is non-binary. But I suspect that even if OP explicitly stated they were male, they would be misgendered as female a few times because of the nature of their letter.

                2. Yorick*

                  Even if male, they’d probably get misgendered as female because it’s the default pronoun on this site for when we don’t know (or remember, I guess) someone’s gender.

        3. Eirene*

          Almost every LW who writes in gets a ton of pushback. I saw far nastier pushback on the letter from the LW who was exasperated with her male colleagues not putting down the toilet seat, for example. The misgendering isn’t a good look, but I’m not overly concerned with this LW’s feelings getting hurt because their (very privileged) presentation of their question is itself being questioned.

      2. Lucette Kensack*

        No, there’s a lot of really snarky, unpleasant comments — “control freak,” “I bet the babysitter hates her life,” “This list makes you sound like you aren’t so much fun to be around,” “my eyes rolling back into my head,” “faff about with an interior architecture software i’d laugh, roll my eyes,” etc.

        Be better, folks.

        1. Observerette*

          I mean would anyone want to hang out with anyone based on their resumes? I think people are determined to knock the letterwriter down a peg, and people should push past that instinct to try to be more helpful.

          1. Annony*

            I agree. There are constructive ways to point out the way the phrasing comes across could hurt their chances of getting the job and then there are just rude comments. I see both in the comments section today.

      3. One of the Sarahs*

        The volume is accidental, though. I read the post, saw there were 8 comments and no one had said what I was thinking, and by the time I’d posted, there were something like 150-200 comments. That’s partly because of the timing, as this post went up in N American E & W coast and European “awake” timezones. If I’d read it 10-15 mins later, when it was 200ish comments, I wouldn’t have commented at all, and then wouldn’t have read all the comments, replied to some etc etc.

    3. Anon77*

      Agreed. I agree with Alison that this info shouldn’t be mentioned, but I’m cringing a little imagining the OP reading these comments. I think the income struck a nerve. I’m assuming OP lives in a high-cost of living bubble like I do. It’s still not defensible to act like 250k is an average income, but when everything is expensive, it skews your perspective. In my town, complaining about our high property taxes is a favorite pastime. (We pay literally 10-15x more in taxes than my in laws do for their much bigger house in the Midwest). I don’t do it, because I’m aware of how privileged & ridiculous it sounds, but I can see how easy it is to fall into that trap. Maybe the comments will provide some perspective for OP?

      OP I do think you are a good writer & can probably translate these skills into some great work accomplishments to share with a potential employer.

    4. Reginaldina*

      I’m not seein unkindness. Incredulity, confusion, a definite bluntness (which I think the question calls for), but nothing malicious or unkind. Am I missing something or are you employing hyperbole/overly sensitive?

      1. Crivens!*

        As Lucette said:

        “control freak,” “I bet the babysitter hates her life,” “This list makes you sound like you aren’t so much fun to be around,” “my eyes rolling back into my head,” “faff about with an interior architecture software i’d laugh, roll my eyes,” etc.

        Also, wow.

      2. Arctic*

        Does it require bluntness? Why this question specifically?

        Lots of people have asked questions of this nature without the level of vitriol.

        1. Anon right now*

          And tons of people have. We should be aware of being kind to all letter writers, but I don’t think this OP is being treated that much worse than others. Whenever someone writes something where a large portion of the commenters disagree with them you see these types of comments.
          I’m not sure why people are acting like this has never happened before.

          1. Avasarala*

            I agree. Kindness is important but the commenting section doesn’t seem blunter or ruder than usual to me.

    5. Arctic*

      It’s amazing how many people here seem to take it as an attack on them.

      Like, yeah, it doesn’t belong on their resume. But them being proud of their accomplishments isn’t a slight on you. It literally has nothing to do with you.

      1. Yorick*

        But the whole point is that these aren’t really accomplishments. You can be proud of doing stuff well, but we want LW to understand that they’re not doing anything that most other people don’t also do.

    6. Nita*

      I think it’s OP’s tone that’s getting people’s back up. Personally, I’m a little tickled by how OP goes “oh, the others handle the cooking and shopping and child care and pet care, and they have to remind me to sit down because I’m working harder than the whole lot of them!” And also, imagine if all of us here started describing how well we adult in business terms. I think we’d all have a lot to say! Most people don’t, though, it just doesn’t fly in the work world. (Signed, someone who had a moment of temptation to brag about my adulting in a job interview.)

  66. Hazwa*

    OP must have been AMAZING at highschool reports. This is a level of spin that would never have occurred to me.

  67. CaliCali*

    OP, I think you’re conflating your level of organization with your level of responsibility. You are very organized, but your tasks and budget are not completely outside the realm of normal familial and adult responsibilities. Also: are the other two adults your children? Because if not, while you may have decided kind of division of labor as beneficial to your household, it also makes it look like you are asserting authority over the other two (and taking credit for their accomplishments), which also comes across strangely. If I said that I helped raise my partner’s/spouse’s/parent’s/roommate’s credit score by running their finances, I feel like the first question from an employer would be “why was that your job?”

  68. MousePrincess*

    I feel like giving OP a little credit for asking. People in more privileged situations don’t always think to question their mindset or seek other viewpoints, but OP did.

    2. Lilo*

      True, good to get it out of your system to an advice columnist and not an actual interviewer.

      I suddenly had this flash where I remembered I have a really on point story for this post: a guy talked extensively about “succeeding in his divorce” in his cover letter. It was not good. Even if his wife was as unreasonable as he said, it showed really poor judgment to be airing out his personal history like that in a cover letter. He went on the no pile.

      2. Count Boochie Flagrante*

        Yikes.

        I guess it’s better than him having successfully concealed that kind of personality until he was hired?

  69. Vivien*

    The only skills from all that you can put on a resume is specific programs (Slack, Excel, etc) that you have presumably mastered in this.

  70. JustKnope*

    An… an intranet? A family intranet? As someone who managed a corporate intranet in a past job… I can’t get over that detail.

    1. goducks*

      I wonder what’s actually meant by intranet here, given that OP describes part of their payroll duties as transferring funds from the family shared account to individual accounts, which is most decidedly not payroll.

      1. Jedi Squirrel*

        I believe that was for paying the babysitter, not transferring funds.

        But still…an intranet? For four people? I just don’t get why this is necessary, or why someone would be impressed by it. I would think they’re just making something simple way too complicated.

        1. Annony*

          I think that might be what is rubbing people the wrong way. Either the tasks are being made much more complicated than they need to be or a simple task is being dressed up as if it were a bigger one. It would be like putting that you file your taxes on your resume to apply for an accounting job. Not everyone files their own taxes and yours may be more complicated than average, but it is going to make the person reading it feel like you are trivializing their job or really don’t understand what they do.

      3. introverted af*

        Do they mean some kind of family server/drive of relevant documents? That’s the only thing I can think of that makes sense, but again, like so many other comments have mentioned, that’s mostly just adulting

      4. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

        Probably either subscribed to the most basic edition of Office 365 that includes Sharepoint and then setup a few team areas etc… or just plain set up documents on the shared storage and called it an intranet.,

        I’d bet a large sum of money it’s not comparable in any way to a ‘corporate’ intranet.

    2. LawLady*

      Maybe it’s just like Google docs? My husband and I have a bunch of those (wedding planning, restaurants to go to, contact information for certain people).

    3. MCMonkeyBean*

      I am very curious about that part myself. Do you need a password to log in? Do they each have their own password?

  71. anon4this*

    On a professional level, this won’t feel right. I don’t think I’ve seen a resume actively compare managing their home life to running a business. Given the non-binary status and throuple relationship, it may weaken your candidacy I’m afraid. I’d leave all of that out.
    On a personal level, you may want to consider the social ramifications of this on your child (e.g. “Sorry friends, can’t hang out tonight because my family requires me to submit an monthly expense report, and I will need to directly reimburse Parent#3 through my direct deposit allowance. I also need to update the running asset excel sheet of all our family’s furniture, as the tread on my bike tires has diminished, depreciating the overall value of my bike . I’d put in an HR complaint, but it usually just gets annotated in my personnel file.”). This sort of running-a-family-like-a-business almost feels like a sitcom to me, but it could have other implications, especially socially.
    Of course, everything may been fine but it may be worth considering why other households don’t model corporate behaviors into familial life like this.

      2. Lucette Kensack*

        Apologies for another misgendering the OP again here. They did not ask for advice on raising their child.

  72. Lucette Kensack*

    Ok, wow. Folks here are being pretty mean to the OP. I think she sounds amazing — I’d hire her to run my household!

    That doesn’t mean any of this belongs on your resume or cover letter. But it’s not a bad thing, in the way that some commenters here are suggesting (micromanaging, overinflating her role, etc.).

      1. Lucette Kensack*

        Yes — I remembered that and posted an apology right as you were posting here. Thanks for the reminder!

    2. Lucette Kensack*

      My apologies for misgendering you here! I used the site’s standard “she as default” rule without remembering that you had specified your pronouns as they/them.

    3. DarnTheMan*

      Well but it is overinflating *their* (LW specified they/them pronouns) role. Like yes LW does sound amazingly organized and kudos to them for that but at the end of the day, they’re running a household. Which lots of adults do, to varying degrees of organization and success. So LW should be proud of themselves but should also realized that a lot of the business-y jargon they put in their letter makes them sound a little out of touch with how businesses work (payroll = allowance? staff meetings for… family?)

  73. PLM*

    A resume like this would go directly into my No pile. Everyone has to handle their own lives / household and the OP is not only over-inflating the tasks, but doing a bit too much of patting themselves on the back too. Admittedly it sounds like a good job of managing the normal household duties is being done, however using the term HR to cover hiring a teenage babysitter really put it over the top for me.

  74. Delta Delta*

    I think it’s one thing to be really organized and able to multitask at home. Those skills are transferrable to work, but OP may find that the family #laundrysorting slack channel is very different than how it works in an office setting.

    Just… no.

  75. Lucette Kensack*

    With no snark at all, I would genuinely love to hear about how the OP uses Slack at home. My own household is just two adults, so we just text each other. But as a process person myself I love the idea of all the systemitizing the OP is doing.

    OP, if you’re willing to share more details about how you do all of this (maybe on the weekend open thread), I’d love to hear it.

    1. Mystery Bookworm*

      I’m not especially familiar with Slack (isn’t it just a messaging app?) But my partner and I seem to mirror OP a little in that we have weekly family meetings, have a shared Asana, and have a shared e-mail / calendar.

      Basically we just have a regular time to review our spending for the week, look at what’s coming up, and coordinate things for our pet and child. We set up the household e-mail account and the Asana during my pregnancy, when it became increasingly clear that the division of labor was starting to fall more along gendered lines than we wanted it to (like, we would both contact a nursery school, and as the e-mail chain grew, my partner would get dropped and they would just end up e-mailing me).

      When we have our family meeting, we tend to update different ‘projects’ in Asana with necessary tasks. So like, we have a project for planning our family trip, for writing up our will, for replacing the boiler and getting some necessary plumbing work done.

      I’m naturally not a very organized person (I forget stuff if it’s not written down) so this helps us keep on the ball. Otherwise I would for sure be forgetting….like, everything. I need stuff recorded! And we’ve found this helps a lot with the division of labor.

      But I can hear why other people think it’s too corporate feeling. I’m super impressed with people who can stay so organized with ad hoc methods, but I need a system.

      1. Third or Nothing!*

        I’ve never heard of Asana, but it looks really cool! I too need things written down and organized. I use Evernote, though. I have entire trip itineraries listed out in there, complete with packing lists. :D

    2. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      Slack is just a group-text option.

      That way you can break it down into different categories.

      “Budgeting”
      “Meal Planning”
      “Vacation”
      “Maintenance and Repairs”

      Then you aren’t searching through a text chain that includes “butt itchy, do we have any bengay?” and “Cat puked again…” to find the note about the number for the carpet cleaners when the time comes.

        1. Third or Nothing!*

          HAHAHA I was wondering about that! You’d probably fix the itch, but at what cost? What cost!?

          Oh Becky Lynch (The Man?), your comments never fail to bring a smile to my face.

    3. Lucette Kensack*

      To be clear, I know what Slack is.

      I’m curious about how the OP uses it. Like, do they have slack channels for different topics? How is that helpful for their family? Why did they decide that it’s more useful than my own (casual) system of just texting my husband? etc.

      1. Arielle*

        My husband and I actually have a Slack, but we don’t even use the channels and just direct message each other. It’s easier than texting when we’re at work because we are both on Slack for work anyway and we prefer typing on a keyboard to being on our phones.

      2. Third or Nothing!*

        I’m thinking maybe as a more sophisticated way to differentiate group messages. Perhaps different threads for general household announcements, one for meal requests and planning, one for discussing maintenance and cleaning responsibilities and needs, etc. Then different ones for different relationship dynamics, like adults only or mom-daughter, etc.

        I imagine it like how I use a shared Evernote folder with my husband combined with our text message threads.

      3. Count Boochie Flagrante*

        Friends of mine keep a household Discord server, which sounds like it fulfills essentially the same function as Slack. Different topics can go in different channels for efficiency’s sake. One channel is for everyone to record what they’ve spent on household purchases, different channel is for scheduling concerns, third channel for shopping lists, etc…

    4. SarahTheEntwife*

      I could see it being especially useful if all three adults work long hours or are otherwise outside of the home a lot. You could have different channels for shopping lists, kid stuff, upcoming trip planning, funny internet things, that sort of thing. Not *necessary* compared to just having a group text, but it would organize things neatly and you wouldn’t have to scroll up endlessly to find that one text where Jo said what time we’re meeting friends for dinner on Sunday.

      1. SarahTheEntwife*

        Actually the more I think about it, the more I kind of want to do this for my tiny little disorganized two-person household. It makes sense for someone with the LW’s attitude toward household management, but it would be just as useful a place for me to put this weekend’s “ok seriously the next person to put on pants needs to go buy toilet paper!” fridge note. I have executive functioning issues and need things written down to remember them.

  76. LilPinkSock*

    OP, I have to believe that this level of organization and efficiency manifests itself at work, too. What examples can you write about that are from the professional side of things?

    Side note: My mother was a SAHP for 15 years, and she was darn good at it. When she was re-entering the workforce, her resume included her education, the last two positions she’d held, skills (employers were fascinated to find a person who’s equally adept at shorthand and Instagram), and a separate “volunteer section” that listed her ten-year stints as Girl Scout troop leader, PTA officer, and community organizer. There are ways to craft a resume that showcase your skills AND demonstrate to an employer that you’re able to separate the personal from the professional.

    1. AvonLady Barksdale*

      The volunteering is key, here, though. Doing these things when you’re accountable to an organization is a very different beast than managing your household. One doesn’t have to be paid to be considered “working”, but one does have to be doing work outside the home in order to demonstrate skills in a non-personal environment.

      1. AnotherAlison*

        Even volunteering is a gray zone. You have to use what experience you have available, but volunteering still does not have the same level of accountability as a paid position*. OP has paid work–they should maximize that experience!

        *There’s also a reverse aspect to that. If I’m managing my work team members, they want to continue to be employed, so they do what they need to do. Managing volunteers who can decide to show up or not with little you can do about that is my nightmare.

        1. Julia*

          To be fair, I’ve worked for orgs that did not hold anyone accountable, so cashing in a paycheck is not a 100% guarantee of being a responsible worker.

        2. Meepmeep*

          Well, and there you go – if you ever leave the workforce to take care of family needs, how will you get back into the workforce if all you can show for the past 15 years is “Nothing”? And guess which gender is disproportionately likely to leave the workforce to take care of family needs?

  77. Rollergirl09*

    I also wouldn’t want to air my familial status to potential employers. It opens the door for discrimination if they presume your family life is as complex as OP is describing.

  78. Nea*

    I think you can do something with the mighty spreadsheets, though. Not necessarily on the resume, but in the cover letter. If it’s the kind of job that requires a lot of manipulation of data, I think there’s room to say “I love creating spreadsheets and have experience designing ones that (list a few unusual or particularly complex things).

    Note that you shouldn’t say what the spreadsheets were FOR, just that they handled bulk data/resulted in multiple different graph types/whatever made them unique.

    (Due to confidentiality agreements I can never talk about what the stuff I do is, but I can address the mechanics of understanding the job requirements and how those skills relate to needs a new employer has. That seems to satisfy folks.)

  79. Lucette Kensack*

    To be clear, I know what Slack is.

    I’m curious about how the OP uses it. Like, do they have slack channels for different topics? How is that helpful for their family? Why did they decide that it’s more useful than my own (casual) system of just texting my husband? etc.

    1. Lucette Kensack*

      Huh, not sure why this double posted. It was meant as a response upthread (where it also posted).

    2. Ele4phant*

      Yeah. I’m curious, but I think if I saw this on a resume, that someone uses slack at home to manage their household, it might make me worry this was a person that was going to over complicate and over engineer every gosh darn thing they did. Just because you *can* use a fancy solution does not mean it’s the best one for any given task, and not knowing how to tell the difference isn’t always a strength.

    3. pamplemousse*

      I said this upthread but not sure it posted. I can see some advantages to using Slack, which can also be a repository of documents and shared resources. (I’ve been on Slack at work since it was first released to the public so I am pretty fluent in Slack.) For example, if my partner and I had a Slack, I’d pin links to our shared calendar, expense sharing system, a document with important contact info for each of us, etc. in our default channel, so they were always easy to find (as opposed to the usual system which is “do you have that Google Doc or I do? Hm, can’t find it, can you send again?”).

      You can also set automated reminders (Every Tuesday at 8:30 am: “Remember that the Roomba is running today, so pick up your charging cables!”). You can see who’s online and typing at any given point. You DON’T get notifications for everything, so if Partner 2 and 3 are hashing something out, Partner 1 can scroll through the conversation at their leisure as opposed to having to get a billion notifications about it.

      If all partners are on Slack at work (and something about this Q makes me think OP might live in the Bay Area, so it’s quite possible) it’s actually not a crazy idea.

  80. Ele4phant*

    You may be extraordinarily organized, but honestly your spin on all these kind of rubbed me the wrong way.

    You run your household, and sounds like you do a great job at it, but I couldn’t shake the feeling that in building up yourself in this arena you are implicitly saying others that are less formal about it are doing a bad job, which raised my hackles a bit. Virtually all adults have to find places to live, manage their budget, pay bills on time, and on occasion, hire and manage outside help. Somehow most of us manage to get it done one way or the other.

    Your home life, while perhaps a little less traditional than the average household, doesn’t sound that much more insanely difficult in structure or in overall “revenue” that what you have to do is all that unique or impressive. If anything, that you are high income makes it less impressive – of course you can manage to pay off the bills on time, have funds to hire contractors, and improve credit scores if you have that level of income for one household.

    Surely if you are so excellently organized at home, you are in your current job as well, even if it’s not currently your core competency, right? Play up how you use this skills in your current job instead.

    1. anon4this*

      It also implies if a single person on a limited budget can manage 1 child and pay their bills on time, they are 3 times more effective than the OP, whose managing a household of 4 on a $250k annual budget….not exactly impossible.

      1. Nita*

        To be fair, sometimes doing things yourself is so much easier than paying someone else to do it. That takes good management skills and good people skills.

  81. Kira*

    I gotta say – Letter Writer’s home setup sounds really neat! It’s cool to hear how they view their role in the family and the amount of conscientiousness they put into it.

  82. So Silly*

    I will try to be as kind as possible. It sounds like you do everything that the rest of us do, with a little more attention to detail. Asking for the bank to remove fees and hiring a babysitter should not be something you add to your resume. You are not an employer at home – you are just an adult, with adult bills and adult duties that need to be taken of; the same as the rest of us.

    1. Sleve McDichael*

      The thing is, because most people find this sort of thing a pain, just something they have to do, they don’t talk about it much. Even if they are also doing it really efficiently. So it seems rarer than it actually is, which is probably why you thought your extra-efficient methods were resumé-worthy. I can totally see that. Unfortunately you’ve accidentally struck a nerve with a lot of people by implying we don’t all do most of this, hence the pile-on. Even if you’re truly running your household just like a business, you really don’t want to strike the same nerve with your interviewers. I wish you luck finding a way to tell of your work achievements just as eloquently!

  83. Leela*

    OP I’ve received many resumes like this in my day and I’d ask you not to do it! For one, it kind of reads like when people say that they’ve got good attention to detail or that they’re a self-started. I mean, maybe, but most people think this about themselves whether it’s true or not and saying it doesn’t tell an employer anything more than you’ve said it about yourself (which is why Alison’s always pushing for people to list out things that prove those skills)

    But also, employers want to know if you can complete tasks that are laid out BY AN EMPLOYER, how you take constructive feedback on your work, do you hit targets set by other people, what happens when you can’t hit those targets, etc. What happens when you have to wait on a chain of ten people in different departments who aren’t getting you what you need? How are you at working with someone you truly hate but can’t get out of your life because they stay at the job (hopefully this is not the case with your family!) They won’t really learn any of that based on your assessment of how you manage your household, even if it isn’t true! As far as listing yourself as HR/Accounting because you made sure your domestic employee was paid, you simply didn’t have the same challenges as someone in HR who was juggling multiple staff issues at the same time, you haven’t dealt with the issues an accountant who is doing accounting for an actual business that they don’t run deals with, you don’t build those same skills even if the ones you build at home intersect in some ways.

  84. Anonymous at a University*

    Please don’t! As others have said, there is no one holding you to a certain standard for your household management tasks other than the parts that relate to paying the babysitter. (And even then, there’s no one looking over your shoulder to absolutely make sure you hire an objectively good babysitter; you’ve probably hired at least one who didn’t work out, so it’s not clear that you actually have experience hiring people who are required to have a certain set of skills). The other adults probably don’t get mad at you if you’re sometimes late doing something or have to recalculate, if you miss a deadline for bill payment the impact is only on a few people, “staff meetings” can be as short and as informal as you want, and so on. There is simply too much that you’re giving yourself a lot of credit for that other people wouldn’t know how to judge. It sounds like you have work experience, so use that.

    /once sat on an academic search committee that got a CV where the applicant said they had “seven years’ experience of full-time teaching,” and it turned out what they meant was teaching various children games like patty-cake and their colors and numbers- not even home-schooling, just regular things adults often encourage their children to learn at home. Don’t look this out of touch, OP.

  85. Old Cynic*

    Apart from the issue of whether this “job”* should be on your resume, what’s listed seems like duties and day to day responsibilities. And shouldn’t resumes should really list accomplishments?

    *no snarkiness intended, just wasn’t sure how else to make a reference.

  86. HannahS*

    Things you do outside of work that demonstrate transferable skills can be a part of a resume, but the thing that links them together is accountability. In a volunteering section, you can put things like charity work, coaching a team, youth-group leadership–they all involve someone who isn’t your partner ensuring that the stuff you’re saying is actually true, and that you actually do the task well. Things that you do that might imply something positive about you as a person but don’t involve external accountability, like playing sports, being an avid reader, or cooking elaborate meals, belong in a hobbies section–if they catch an interviewer’s eye, they’ll ask and you can spin them.

    Household management is tricky, because
    a) Everyone does it; it’s not volunteer work, and it’s not a hobby, either.
    b) There’s a lot of moral judgement wrapped up in how households are run, so what a well-run household looks like to everyone will be different.
    c) There’s classism involved, too.
    d) There’s complicated gender stuff, which can cut you badly regardless of your gender and the interviewer’s.

    There’s a lot of criticism of you on this thread, and I hope you won’t take it to mean that what you’re doing isn’t a great contribution to your family life. It’s just that when you talk about it, you need to show an interviewer that you understand that the way a family household is run is not like running a business. It’s true on a fundamental level–despite saying that you run it like a business, I think what you mean is that you’ve borrowed from business practices to make your home efficient. You don’t run your home like a business, because I don’t think your primary focus is on the bottom line.

    2. Coco*

      It kinda reminds me of the New York Post’s article:

      How Snoop Dogg’s joint-rolling skills made him a sushi master

  87. ele4phant*

    Some of what you do also seems to be over-complicated, which might actually give me pause.

    You use slack, at home, to manage and track normal household duties with just two other adults? To me, that seems like trying to crack a nut with a sledgehammer, and I would be worried that if I hired you you’d waste a lot of time trying to over-engineer every gosh darn thing. Great that you know how to use it, I guess, but poor judgement that you decided it’s the right tool for something so simple.

    1. Extroverted Bean Counter*

      This is something that stood out to me too.

      I personally have a “magnificent spreadsheet” at home for tracking our finances and projected retirement, with various analysis options to tinker with when the spirit moves me (“what if college costs $800k a year by the time the kids are ready, could we afford to help them? What would need to change?”). It is overly complicated and fussy, and if my husband tries to touch it he will surely break it.

      Mint and the “planning” tab on our investment company’s website do pretty much the exact same thing with prettier graphs. This does not make me a master at budgeting – it just says that I spent a lot of time making a less-good version of free things that exist.

      But it’s fun for me, and the manual process of getting all the information into my spreadsheet really helps me feel like I have a solid grasp of our finances, where looking at the Mint homepage feels much more disconnected.

  88. 867-5309*

    OP, I think if you have a specific software or technology skill (Excel, Slack, etc.) then you can put that on your resume as part of a broader list, but beyond that I wouldn’t apply any of the other items.

  89. Anne Elliot*

    One thing others have touched on but I want to independently reinforce, because I honestly don’t think the OP’er has thought of it: Another reason this strikes people in a really negative way is that it sounds like a humble-brag, if not straight-out bragging. $250K annual household income? Three adults to share the work? A pre-funded dedicated payroll account for the babysitter? Architectural software for interior design?

    Without busting the OP’er chops, I feel like they are personally focused on their skills — which in fact sound mighty! — and have overlooked how much this sounds like “I meticulously organize my extensive collection of diamonds and schedule maintenance for our jet.” This really turns a lot of people off — as, quite frankly, does the obliviousness to how extremely privileged all this sounds. Again, not smacking the OP’er around, but I don’t think they’ve considered this.

    1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      I don’t see it as a humble brag. 250K may sound like a lot but it really isn’t, not when that’s 3 people working, that’s 83k a year each if they are all around the same salary band. That’s good money but it’s not rich money.

      This is near diamonds and jets level of living!

      1. Rusty Shackelford*

        It’s still $250K covering the expenses of four people. Whether those people are three adults and one child, two adults and two children, or one adult and three children, it’s still all available to the people in that household, and it’s four times the income of the average U.S. household.

        1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

          I grew up in a trailer park with an average income of one person, with a four person family. I get it.

          This is still middle class living. Depending on the dynamics, one or all three are also paying taxes at the “Single” rate. So they’re not getting many tax breaks either. They’re middle class and nitpicking the final number is only pulling the already divided middle class apart.

          1. fposte*

            I also think looking at it by household is misleading in this case (and in others, for that matter); that measurement lumps together single-income families with multiple dependents and DINKs, and it’s possible that the OP’s household is one with three full-time earning adults. OP indicates they live in an HCOL area; per capita medians tend to be pretty high in places like that, so you wouldn’t need to be much above median for a household of three adult incomes to bring in $250k. (SF per capita median is $75k, for instance.)

            1. Yorick*

              But it doesn’t make sense to look at the 3 people’s single incomes, either. If I make $83k in a HCOL area, it’s not as impressive an income. But if my $83k only needs to pay for 1/3 of my household bills, I’ve got a lot of money to play with.

          2. Rusty Shackelford*

            According to many definitions (including Pew), it’s upper class. The top 10%, in fact, according to the U.S. Census. I know if they live in a high COL area, it may not feel that way. {shrugs} But that’s a moot point. I still think it’s valuable input for the LW to know that many people will look at their life and see privileged humblebragging, not hard work. People who can’t afford new furniture at all won’t be terribly impressed by someone who manages to buy it on three people’s combined six-digit income.

            1. Extroverted Bean Counter*

              Yes, I think OP intended it as “I manage and direct a sizable sum of money” which, if it were truly a small business it is a bit more of a credential to say “I managed the budget of a company with annual revenue of $6M” as opposed to a company with revenue of $100k. So in terms of “look at the level of responsibility I carry” I can see why they specified.

              But you are very correct in that is not how it sounds at all.

      2. Yorick*

        Sure, each individual person isn’t making a huge amount of money, but overall, they have a lot of money for their household. Way more than the average family of 4. It fits in the upper-middle class range, but is very much not what we mean when we say “middle class families.”

  90. Hana*

    I must say I slightly disagree with the response on this one. While I agree you can’t list “running a household” on your resume, perhaps there are skills involved that can go on the resume somewhere? Alison is wrong when she says that everyone does these tasks. I’m about to get very heteronormative here, bear with me: in many families, there is a stay-at-home mom running the whole household in the background while her husband works a professional job. Husband collects professional, resume-worthy skills while his wife acts as a household manager, but apparently nothing she does in the background is worthy of a resume?

    So-called “women’s work” is already devalued enough in our society. Childcare, laundry, household budget, keeping schedules for the whole family, you name it, none of it seems to rise to the level of putting on a professional resume. So yeah, maybe you can’t put “running a household” on your resume but this person definitely has transferable skills for a professional workplace.

    Don’t assume everyone does these tasks. There is a lot of unpaid labor behind that well-run household. At the very least you should be able to list a few relevant skills on a resume.

    1. Jedi Squirrel*

      So you’re saying that men can’t do childcare, laundry, household budget, keeping schedules for the whole family.

      Single guy here who’s done all that. And it doesn’t go on my resume. This is not about men’s work/women’s work, this is about normal work for adults that all of us do. Assuming that this is “women’s work” is frankly, sexist.

      Also, I was raised by a single working mother, so your assumption that “in many families, there is a stay-at-home mom running the whole household in the background while her husband works a professional job” is off-putting. It’s also just wrong.

      1. Cat*

        Thank you. Single mom with a full time job here (and I’m lucky it’s a flexible and well-paid one so I’m not complaining). Lots of us don’t really have someone running our lives.

      2. Oh No She Di'int*

        “So you’re saying that men can’t do childcare, laundry, household budget, keeping schedules for the whole family.”

        Well, I’m not sure that’s what Hana is saying. I think what she means is that such tasks have historically been largely carried by women in our society. That’s just historically true. And because of that they’ve historically been devalued. Does that mean there has never, ever, ever been a man in the history of the world who did the laundry? That is obviously not true. It’s just that these kinds of tasks have disproportionately gone to women, and for that reason have been looked upon as less important than, say, jobs done outside the household.

        I think that pointing out the sexism inherent in this fact, is not itself sexist.

      3. DarnTheMan*

        +100. My mom was a director when growing up so while certain tasks were more evenly split (she did the cooking, my dad did the laundry), my dad’s schedule was a lot more flexible so he was the one responsible for lunches, school drop-offs and pickups (up to a certain age) and usually staying home when someone got sick.

      4. I Wrote This in the Bathroom*

        Hana’s comment jumped out at me too as, how would I say, not matching my personal experiences. In my ten years as a newly-single person, I tried to limit my dating/relationship experience to the men who have done some combination of all of those things; because to me it was a sign of shared values and priorities, and an indication that I would not have to explain things that are an obvious part of my life to my romantic partner. Most of my past dates and exes had been single fathers at some point in their lives. Last time I heard a man talk about “women’s work”, it was the father of my children and even he stopped saying that decades ago. This separation of duties really isn’t as common in 2020 as it may have been in 1950.

    2. Blueberry*

      Leaving aside the question of how common the family pattern you describe actually is — I don’t think the point is that tasks listed should not be on a resume because they are ‘women’s work’ and thus devalued, but because they are not workplace tasks subject to workplace oversight. If someone were building a resume as a housekeeper they *could* list all these tasks on their resume because they would have performed them in the context of a workplace and with the oversight of a workplace even though their workplace is another person’s house.

      1. Ask a Manager* Post author

        Yes. You also can’t list what historically was thought of as men’s household work — managing the home finances, buying and maintaining the cars, caring for the yard, etc.

    3. Koala dreams*

      I agree with you that it’s not true that everyone does these tasks. I also get annoyed by the assumption that everybody is the same and live the same life. However, I don’t think the problem with putting them on a resume is the tasks themselves, or their being under-valued in society, but the fact that it’s personal tasks. If you work as a babysitter or a cook, or volunteers at a charity doing household budgets for clients, of course you could put it on the resume.

      1. Falling Diphthong*

        For example, OP has fired babysitters for poor job performance. But a parent isn’t held to those standards and doesn’t risk being fired. You don’t fire yourself for doing a poor job managing the laundry and just buying new underwear some weeks.

    4. Yorick*

      But OP isn’t doing the most undervalued “women’s work” – they say the other 2 adults do the majority of child care, cleaning, cooking, etc.

  91. The Man, Becky Lynch*

    Here’s my POV on this and why it won’t give you any favors and will hinder you more than help in most situations. This resume would go in the “no thank you” auto reject pile in many offices.

    Being really familiar with COO/CFO and HR on an actual business level, not this kind of micro level stuff will read as very out of touch. You are not a CFO when you plan a budget for a family.

    There’s a world of difference between what we do on a personal level and what we do on a business level. So I know you can call contractors and hire a landscaper. That’s different than when you’re a corporate sized account working with these kinds of entities. Commercial and Residential accounts are a world apart. That’s why they have entire divisions in many companies that deal with the accounts separately.

    Your personal banking is a world apart from a business banking situation as well. Budgeting even for a micro business isn’t 250k a year of annual income, I have done deals for more than 250k in a single setting.

    The scope is so skewed here. You have some decent skills to cross reference but really, the blind spot here is comparing apples to oranges. You do a damn good job with your family and should be proud, you are awesome. But it’s not business related in the end.

    1. J.B.*

      I would also worry that putting all this stuff on a resume leads to more rejections. Many of us who are married with children have an uneven distribution of responsibilities. As third shift queen, my life runs on ruthless time management. I might use such a phrase in an interview but with clarity that my potential employer expects work to happen at work. So the fact that I can plan and schedule different things is great, but I don’t want to emphasize how MUCH time the kid stuff takes.

      1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

        Yes, bringing family into it really does bring up that subconscious bais as well. “Oh you’re responsible for a family.” sometimes transforms into “this person is stale and reliable.” but often it is more on the “This person won’t be available after hours, will take more sick time because of the kiddo and perhaps won’t be fully involved with the process because they have their concentration split so many different ways.” along with the issue if they provide full family healthcare, argh. I hate that this creeps into minds, even though it’s illegal practice, people don’t write it down or use it to fully justify not hiring someone. They use it to nitpick the ef outta someone and pick someone else who doesn’t send any “flags” up in the back of their prejudice mind.

  92. Home CFO LW*

    Thanks for the thoughtful reply, Alison, and the thoughtful comments, everyone!

    I really wish my job gave me opportunities to use these skills. I mean, that’s why I’m looking for a job that does. Of course my resume focuses on my professional accomplishments. I just was wondering whether this was worth including in some way, at least as an explanation of why I’m looking to move into operations, and it sounds like the answer is a clear NOPE, so it’s nice to have that established and move on.

    As for relative incomes and resources, I live in an extremely expensive metro area, and all four members of our family are disabled (including me) and have expenses that aren’t covered by insurance or social services. We hire cleaners because we aren’t physically able to do regular house cleaning; we order in more often than budget-conscious people “should” because we can’t always safely cook; we’re paying a lawyer to sue our school district for failing to provide legally required services to our disabled child, and we’re also paying a therapist out of pocket for those services in the meantime. We live in a relatively inexpensive neighborhood, take one brief family vacation a year by train or car, shop at Goodwill, and basically make ends meet. I promise I’m not polishing diamonds here! But since obviously I don’t want to go into that during a job interview, I definitely take the point that an interviewer might land on “Gee, must be nice!” or “What’s to boast about?” It seems clear that if I can’t share the whole picture, it’s best to bring up individual skills organically during interviews or not at all.

    1. Crivens!*

      I’m sorry for some of the crueler feedback you got here, LW. It sounds like you have a wonderful family, and you deserve to be proud of your accomplishments with them! Glad you internalized the feedback about not using that on your resume, though.

        1. Third or Nothing!*

          Sometimes that is the best method.

          I’m sure you missed one of my comments, but I suggested you find a way to use those skills in a volunteer role. I think that would give you a good base to show you can use your organizational ability in a professional setting, plus give you some references you can use in the job search.

    2. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      You in now way need to justify your spending or your needs.

      Considering how much operations management can pay in a high cost of living area, no way does anyone flinch at an annual income of 250k with 3 workers and think it’s extravagant.

      1. Home CFO LW*

        Yes, around here people in their 40s making an average of $75k/yr is really not considered rolling in dough! And I’m the least well paid of the three of us, another reason I want to get out of the arts field.

        1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

          I’m coming from the greater Seattle area, so wages are extra inflated as well. If you want to live in something other than a rented room or micro apartment, you’re looking at almost 16K a year just in rent for a single person, twice that for a family your size.

    3. Count Boochie Flagrante*

      I’m glad you’re taking the (sometimes harsh) feedback so well, OP! That speaks pretty highly of you as a person.

      For what it’s worth, it does suck that you can’t use this stuff on your resume. Unfortunately, there are a lot of things that fall into that camp — the letter linked under “You may also like” about World of Warcraft leadership experience is a great read. Like managing your household to a high degree, running a raid requires a lot of skills and there are absolutely social/personal consequences to doing a bad job of it, but it just doesn’t equal out the same way that doing stuff on the clock for cash dollars does. I help run a LARP, which involves a lot of collaboration, creativity, and people management skills — but I don’t put that on my resume, either.

      1. Annony*

        Yes! I hope you realize that the fact that you can’t put it on a resume in no way diminishes your accomplishments!

      2. Home CFO LW*

        Yeah, I do really extensive volunteer work for a couple of nonprofit organizations and I’m struggling to figure out how/whether to represent that as well. Someone pointed out that “Look at all this stuff I do in my spare time!” could come across as “Look at all this stuff that could take me away from being dedicated to my job!” and that was a really crucial point. But one of the industries I’m looking at is hospitality/events, and I want to be able to talk about how I’ve helped our local soup kitchen stretch a very tight budget to feed thousands of people in addition to getting ServSafe certified and ensuring our menus accommodate a wide variety of dietary restrictions.

        It’s just ironic that I’ve handled more disciplinary matters as a home employer of afterschool sitters than as a department head.

        1. Third or Nothing!*

          Oh look, you already DO volunteer! Hon, that kind of stuff is exactly what belongs on a resume! Put it in its own section (volunteering, community involvement, etc) and list out what you do in the same way you would if it were a paying job.

          Side note: bless you for accommodating different diets. It’s far too rare, especially in situations where society expects people to just be grateful for what they’re given.

          1. Home CFO LW*

            Thank you for the encouragement!

            When the job is to feed people, you have to feed people food that isn’t poison to them. That’s a pretty basic principle. I have a lot of dietary restrictions and socially came of age in a local culture of potlucks where every person provided an ingredient list with their dish, so it’s second nature to me.

            1. Third or Nothing!*

              I didn’t get diagnosed until I was 25, and I grew up in rural West Texas where food allergies are Not A Thing. Even now that I live in a large metro area, I’m still expected to do everything myself. If I want food I can eat at a potluck or catered event, I’d better bring it myself. I don’t even bother getting tickets for events where food is the main draw because it’s just a giant waste of money for me. Alas, I shall never run the Hot Chocolate 15K. And they have such good jackets.

        2. learnedthehardway*

          It’s completely legitimate to talk about your volunteer experience, and how you have used skills there that you haven’t yet had the opportunity to use in your actual career.

          The way to avoid looking like you’re over-committed to your personal life / volunteer efforts is to point out that you engaged in the volunteer efforts both because you enjoyed them / wanted to give back AND because you were getting the experience you wanted to support your career growth. That will make it clear to the interviewer that your career is indeed your primary focus.

          2. Falling Diphthong*

            I think “I’m involved in my community through a couple of local charities” lands much better than “I’m involved with my family.” And talking about how you successfully improved things at those charities could go on a resume, while any family anecdotes to demonstrate a skill should be 1 aside in the interview.

        3. Blueberry*

          I think there are quite a few examples amidst the comments about how people successfully cited their volunteering experiences on their resumes.

        4. Observer*

          Well, talking about how you managed (and stretched) the budget, certifications(s) and menus of what is essentially a commercial kitchen, when looking at hospitality type jobs actually DOES make sense. TONS of sense. Feeding people on a commercial scale is generally part of the hospitality industry, and any kitchen that feeds thousands of people is a commercial kitchen, even if they don’t make any money.

          This is something that I think you could put on your resume – Yes someone might not like that you are not going to be dedicated heart and soul to the job, but that’s not a terrific place to work anyway. On the other hand a smart employer will see that and realize that maybe you can run a commercial kitchen or a facility that contains a commercial kitchen.

        5. The Man, Becky Lynch*

          Yes yes yes, use your volunteer experiences speak.

          That’s a different scale.

          Think about it this way, you are in far more control over your family in most people’s perceptions. So it’s just “survival” technique in the end and we should all have that in a strangers [employers] mind. But work/volunteer efforts include a different scope, different populations.

          You work with vulnerable populations with working in soup kitchens. That shows a lot to a potential employer more so than having to discipline or fire a babysitter [which still is difficult work but again very different from an employers perspective.]

          1. Falling Diphthong*

            I think this point about “survival” is really important. I know people who have had to fight for accommodations for their kid–it’s exhausting and complicated and really helps if at least one parent is a lawyer. But it doesn’t translate–if I would do X for my beloved children or husband of 30 years, it doesn’t mean I would do X for an employer.

        6. Ella Bee Bee*

          Those things you did for the soup kitchen sound like great accomplishments you could share with an employer! Definitely relevant to working in events/hospitality. I would include that on the resume for sure.

        7. Yorick*

          I think these things could be ok in an interview, if they come up. For example, you could maybe talk about a disciplinary issue with your sitter if it really fit a “tell me about a time when…” question.

    4. Mystery Bookworm*

      Thanks for replying! I’m impressed with you for reading through these comments and giving such a thorough response. It can be really hard to take in so much feedback all at once.

      1. Home CFO LW*

        Thanks. I don’t really understand people who write in to advice columnists (especially ones with very active comment sections) without being prepared to hear “Nope, you’re wrong.” If I were certain I was right, I’d just go about my day!

    5. Observerette*

      I think you’ve made an excellent case as to why you have the personality to thrive in the kind of role you are looking for. Best of luck! Also I can see you having your own business someday if you choose to.

      1. Home CFO LW*

        Thanks! I ran my own freelance consulting business for 18 years. (I didn’t need to ask whether that goes on the resume.) I also frequently get ideas for businesses that I wish SOMEONE would start so I can just enjoy them and don’t have to run them. I genuinely prefer working for other people, as long as the organization is functional—given the circumstances I outlined above, you can see why we need the financial security of steady paychecks.

        1. AnotherSarah*

          I feel like the freelance consulting business probably uses many of the same skills you bring to your (very organized, it sounds like!) household–is it possible to emphasize that experience? And of course if someone asks about a particular program, you can mention that you’ve used it at home but not at work. It sounds like you do have a ton of transferable skills from home, but that you’d need to do quite a lot to not sound naive thinking they can be transferred directly to a job. My partner and I do a lot of what you all seem to do, but for example last night we ran our meeting a little tipsy and made it shorter because I wanted to watch some TV in bed…which is NOT how I run work meetings.

          1. Home CFO LW*

            Running the household is a lot harder and more complicated than running my consulting business was, but I get that it doesn’t look that way from the outside.

    6. Veronica Mars*

      It makes a lot more sense now, hearing that you’re trying to use this experience to explain why you want a job in Operations.
      But the truth is, you don’t need to go into this much detail to justify that to someone. Most will just take you at face value if you say “I love organizing things, and want a job that takes advantage of that skill set.” And if they don’t look immediately satisfied, a quick, relatable, example will do “Haha, I even set up elaborate home budget tracking spreadsheets in my free time because it brings me joy, aren’t I a geek?”

      PS – have you ever considered project management? That actually sounds much better aligned to your interests, to me. At least at my company, ops is very delivery-at-the-expense-of-everything focused, but looking around at project managers who all need their cubes arranged just so and have incredibly specific spreadsheet color coding preferences… I have this feeling of “these are my people.”

      1. DarnTheMan*

        +100. When I moved to my current job, I actually was looking for less work but in the interest of not seeming like a slacker, I framed it as “I’ve had a great learning experience in [areas U,V,W,X,Y and Z] but found my interests were really with [Y and Z] so am looking for a position where I can build on those particular skills.”

      2. Home CFO LW*

        Thanks, that’s a great point about not needing to justify this change nearly as much as I think I do. Maybe I need to justify it to myself… it’s hard to switch careers after so long doing one thing.

        I have looked into project management too, and I’m definitely not ruling it out. I appreciate the advice.

        1. Oh So Anon*

          Yeah, I also don’t know if this is an overstep, but knowing that part of the context of your household management situation involves disabilities, I’m not sure how much of that you want to disclose in an interview, particularly if your disability/disabilities are invisible.

        2. Oof*

          You’re in the arts – trust me, your fellow arts folks will need no big explanation! (I mean you can make a living, but not necessarily the standard of living you’re looking for, hahaha) Thank you for your follow-up, that makes SO much more sense! You may also check into for-profits for the type of work you are currently in, if you enjoy it. While there are not as many like positions, they often pay better, and have much better benefits. Because you live in a high cost of living area, I think you may find something in your current field, or arts related, that can bridge the gap between your current role and an operations manager. Which I know sounds rather broad, but it’s hard to explain more without specific examples!

      3. Glitsy Gus*

        Agreed, OP, look into Project Management! The best ones I work with have Amy Santiago levels of organization and love for spreadsheets and logical systems. Everything you do at home fit very nicely into what the PMs do at my office. I really think that could be a good option for you, and it does pay well, especially if you get a PPM certification (get your company to pay for that after you get your first PM job ;) ).

        Not only that, Project Management isn’t a industry-specific skill, so not only would you have a bigger job pool to draw from, a lot of what you do in your current job would probably apply.

        I wish you a lot of luck, OP. Moving from the arts to something else is tricky, I’ve done it myself. I totally understand wanting to show your skills in any arena you have them. You don’t need to justify your spending or anything else to us. Though I do wish you the best on dealing with your kiddo’s education and the suit. That can be so hard, and no kid should have to fight for a decent education.

    7. Jedi Squirrel*

      This is the information that should have been in your original post.

      No, you still can’t include this on your resume, but if you have all these great skills, is it is possible to write some blog posts about these that you could include on your resume, or at least in your cover letter? You have a lot of skills that I think other people would be interested in, and would find relevant.

      Your letter to Allison is focused on the “what”. But really, you’re interested in doing the “how”. FWIW, I’ve seen a lot of terrible spreadsheets, so if you have “mighty” spreadsheets, I’m interested. Especially if there are tutorials involved. I’d love you to show me how to make spreadsheets better!

      Best of luck to you!

      1. Allypopx*

        Oh I like this! Write some “home management” blog posts and reference those in your cover letter, that would be perfectly appropriate.

      2. Home CFO LW*

        Thinking of this as “how” rather than “what” is really helpful, thank you! And the idea of making a blog for it is great, I’m definitely going to chew on that idea.

        I can’t share my spreadsheets here without de-anoning myself, but my top tip for making a lot of spreadsheets better is formatting, especially conditional formatting. There are lots of tutorials out there on how to write formulas that do various things, but your formulas can be super hacky and still make a good spreadsheet. User interface and data display are what will turn a mess of numbers into a valuable tool.

        It doesn’t have to be fancy. When I was freelancing more, I used a time management spreadsheet that showed me the minimum number of hours I needed to work every day to get my projects done on deadline. All numbers were displayed using one | character per hour. At a glance I could see that on Tuesday I was || behind (in red) but by Friday I could be ||| ahead (in black). It was extremely Edward Tufte (and if you’re interested in data display and haven’t read Tufte, you really should; his advice on PowerPoint presentations and handouts is life-changing). A daily-use spreadsheet should be considered a piece of software and designed starting from the desired user experience.

        Hire me. :D

        1. Jedi Squirrel*

          A daily-use spreadsheet should be considered a piece of software and designed starting from the desired user experience.

          THIS!!!!!

          I’m a big fan of conditional formatting, so I love what you’re outlining here. I will definitely look into Edward Tufte!

          Yes, if you do a blog about this, like Bono, I Will Follow!

    8. I Wrote This in the Bathroom*

      Oof, OP, I agree with everyone else saying that your letter makes a lot more sense now.

    9. Lucette Kensack*

      I’m really sorry about the rude, unpleasant responses that made up stories about you and your family — and that the comments made you feel like you had to justify your choices to us here.

      Best of luck finding a job that suits you!

      1. Home CFO LW*

        Thanks, very kind of you. I’m not taking it to heart; I’ve been on the internet long enough to know how comment sections go, and everyone’s bringing their own experiences to their reactions.

    10. Anne Elliot*

      Just because many of us do not think this goes on the resume doesn’t mean you owe anyone (including us) an explanation for any of it. Much less do you owe anyone an apology. But the fact that people will not have enough context to fairly evaluate your situation, is exactly why it’s problematic to try to incorporate it into your resume. You sound awesome and the work you do for your family sounds important. It just may not land the way you hope it will if it’s a total stranger reading it.

      1. Home CFO LW*

        Yes, that’s my takeaway from all of this discussion—if I mention it at all, do it in an interview where I can contextualize it and tailor it to the person I’m talking with.

    11. Observer*

      The fact that you felt the need to post some of these details in this response is a perfect example of one of the problems of using your personal life on your resume. You REALLY don’t want to have to explain your spending or other personal choices to your (prospective) employer! Even if you were doing truly stupid stuff, which I get your not.

    12. Home CFO LW*

      Also, to the doubters about Slack for households, I genuinely have no idea how we lived without it. It’s executive function in a box, and it’s free (though we pay for it so we can add our after-school sitter as a restricted user). A very partial list of things it lets us do:

      – Communicate with our sitter in a non-emergency way. “The library’s closed so we’re heading to the park.” “Don’t forget there’s no speech therapy tomorrow.”
      – Integrate with our child’s Google calendar so we get alerts four hours before that birthday party starts or when a regular appointment is changed or canceled.
      – Have non-urgent household discussions in the background while at work, since all our jobs use Slack. “Which one of us is picking up the cat from the vet?” in Slack is much less work-intrusive than it would be in a text message, but more likely to be seen in time than an email.
      – Share links while pricing out larger household purchases, and discuss pros and cons of various options.
      – Track medication doses with timestamps. It’s mostly used for our pets at the moment, but vital when Smol has a fever and we need to space out the Tyenol.
      – Keep a grocery list that our sitters can contribute to.
      – Share cute photos of child and pets. VERY IMPORTANT USE CASE.
      – Store useful information. Picking up someone else’s meds? Type ‘dob’ to get a list of all the household members’ birthdays. Want to get bath soap while you’re there? Search the #pharmacy-requests channel for the household’s preferred brand.
      – Pop up reminders for trash night. Or for monthly humidifier filter changes. Or for annual holiday planning and vacation scheduling.
      – Use a custom ‘martyr’ emoji to tease the person who always leaps in to do all the housework.

      I guess we could do most of this with texting, email, Remember the Milk, BabyConnect, Google Calendar, etc. but having it all in one place is so great. I really think Slack could do itself a favor by marketing itself to families as well as businesses. Don’t knock it until you’ve tried it.

      1. Third or Nothing!*

        So much more sophisticated than my Evernote + texts method. But I’m also only communicating with one person, my husband.

        Also I 100% agree that sharing cute pictures is A VERY IMPORTANT USE. In fact I request that we can see some pics of pets please.

  93. Rusty Shackelford*

    I hate to pile on, but I have to add this, because it didn’t occur to me until later. LW, you’re not even doing all the things that a typical household-runner does. The other two adults do the majority of the shopping, cooking, pet care, and childcare. I don’t know how much time I spend on meal planning, grocery shopping, and cooking, but if that task were removed from my plate (no pun intended), I’d have a lot more time to do spreadsheets and call the bank and ask to have fees removed. So you’re not even doing “things every adult does,” as many people here have pointed out. You’re actually sharing a huge chunk of typical household management with two other adults. Yes, you are probably doing a very good job at the things you do. But there’s a pretty good chance you’re doing fewer things than the person reading your resume. You’re just doing them with a lot more flourish.

    1. Observerette*

      This absolutely is piling on, and isn’t even remotely related to job advice. The LW did not ask anyone to provide input to their family setup/chore distribution.

      1. DarnTheMan*

        Except that’s Alison’s place to say something, not yours. Rusty literally included some advice in their last line “But there’s a pretty good chance you’re doing fewer things than the person reading your resume.” which other commenters have also pointed out above may result in possible negative outcomes for the LW if they were to include all their points in a cover letter or resume, only for the hiring manager to think “you think that makes you qualified? well I deal with [x, y, z] at home and you don’t see me complaining.”

        1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

          Except Alison has no rules about disagreeing or countering other commenters, so bringing her up isn’t necessary.

          1. DarnTheMan*

            Apologies all around; I get that some people are feeling rubbed at little raw by the response to the letter but I come to AAM because it’s one of the nicest commentariats I’ve encountered on the web (even at its snarkiest) and I get frustrated by the comments policing other commenters or lambasting them for being “mean” to LWs when more often than not it’s just a matter of disagreeing opinions and lived experience.

      2. Rusty Shackelford*

        Not sure why you think I’m providing input on their chore distribution. I don’t think it’s bad, at all, that the LW is able to concentrate on certain tasks. (I’d love to have a third adult in the house taking over a lot of those chores.) I’m just saying that their perception may be a little skewed, because yes, you have more time available obsess over spreadsheets if you don’t have to shop or cook.

        On the other hand, if you’re applying for a job using spreadsheets, they’re probably not going to ask if you can also cook dinner, so maybe this isn’t as relevant as it felt. :-/

    2. AnotherAlison*

      I think your comment misses the point that they’re proving out operations-director-job-related household management skills they have, not that they are a household superhero. The restaurant manager doesn’t need to prove they’re a good chef to show they have good restaurant management skills, right?

      1. Rusty Shackelford*

        What I’m saying is, if the only thing I had to do at home was (for example) pay the bills on time, I’d be pretty darn good at it. It doesn’t mean I’m extraordinarily skilled at paying the bills. It means I get time to focus on it. I don’t know how well that’s going to translate into a job where I do lots of other things as well.

        1. AnotherAlison*

          I guess I would still disagree. My spouse would never be good at budgeting and paying bills. He doesn’t have very skills for looking ahead or managing money. He still seems surprised by his quarterly business taxes and year-end taxes every time. If you only have the household chore that you’re suited to to focus on, agreed you’d be a rockstar at it. Lack of time detracts from success, but probably not true in reverse. (I could have infinite time to cook dinners and I’d still shove a pizza in the oven 20 minutes before I wanted to eat at least 2x a week.)

      2. sunny-dee*

        Here’s the thing though — household management is absolutely nothing like operations director. At all. I do 90+% of the household management (including cooking, cleaning, and childcare). My husband is an actual director of operations, for a multi-location food retailer. There is virtually nothing about doing household management that carries over into his job. Nothing. It’s like dropping a shoebox of receipts at HR Block and claiming that totally like being a CPA. I am very good at my job (software technical writing), but my household management experience would do absolutely nothing to prepare me for trying to do my husband’s job and I would suck at it, or at least suffer at it.

  94. Aheahe*

    OP, based on your current “workload,” would you have the capacity to manage the full operations of 20+ more humans that aren’t family so you have zero control over in all reality, and that will not necessarily always comply with your method/modes of operation? Could you keep work and home life entirely compartmentalized from each other? My guess would be you could handle it during onboarding, but the moment the honeymoon hiring period is over, you’d feel a deep deep imbalance on what you were expecting to get out of the position vs. the value you feel managing your home in such an airtight way.

    1. Close Bracket*

      OP demonstrates their capacity to hold a full time job on top of running a household by currently holding a full time job, just like a large number of people who run households.

  95. Jdc*

    This is something, not all of it, that you could mention in an interview. If the work was detailed and spreadsheet heavy you might mention you even do them at home extensively and have successfully used that data to reduce debt. But not in a resume.

  96. Alanna*

    I think this is the kind of think you can mention as an anecdote in an interview when you’re talking about spreadsheets or something. For example, I write documentation professionally, so I’ve mentioned in interviews that I use wikis and documentation software to manage all sorts of things in my life, from all of my health and doctor information to setting up a documentation site for local cat rescue resources. You could find a segue in about how you love to organize and stay on top of things.

  97. ldierke*

    Oh boy.

    Running a household is a lot of work, but it’s work everyone does and many people do on top of professional careers. They sound like they are an intensely organized and meticulous person and while that is a helpful personality trait for an employee, that still doesn’t make “running a household” an okay thing to put on your resume. I cannot imagine how hard I would cringe if an applicant wrote that and equated it to a job.

    If they are skilled with Slack, Excel, or another relevant software they could probably list that in the skills section of their resume, and mentioning these things in a cover letter might work okay too.

    1. CleverGirl*

      How “skilled” can one really be in Slack, though? It’s not exactly high-level software. It’s for chatting. I would mention experience with Slack, but even putting that you have Slack “skills” comes off as a bit lacking in awareness to me.

  98. ynotlot*

    OP, are you a Virgo? I gotta say, to me, this is more than #adulting. This is like, next-level luxury household management with a level of organization and accuracy that I literally can’t even dream of. I’m almost 30 and hold a Director title, but I have to have four ultra-loud alarm clocks hidden throughout the house to even have a shot at getting out of bed in the morning, I keep protein powder on hand so I have something to eat when I neglect myself until I’m so hungry I get nauseous and start dry heaving, and my car registration once got suspended because I don’t open my mail and thus didn’t see I had an unpaid parking ticket. Don’t tell my coworkers!!
    My life is slightly more functional since my gf moved in. We have a chore chart for dishes, vacuuming, taking out trash. Sometimes we cook dinner. Sometimes I open my mail.
    My point being, this stuff doesn’t belong on a resume, but own it! You are a VERY high functioning household manager and that can and should build your confidence! As others have said, the skills you demonstrate in managing the household can give you ideas for which of your job skills you highlight. What we do on our personal time can often be more reflective of what we truly enjoy doing and comes naturally to us, so it can be helpful to distill/drill down on which job skills you are going to list. Like if you love doing X, Y, and Z but hate doing A on your personal time, and you currently do X, Y, and A in your job, you could highlight skills X and Y in the context of your current job, downplay A, and make it clear you’re interested in expanding into Z (whatever the professional equivalent is).

    1. ynotlot*

      Also, I have had someone list “partying” as a skill on their resume. I have had someone else list “video gaming.” I probably wouldn’t take the home management stuff into account if I was reviewing your application, but it wouldn’t be like an instant “into the shredder!” The only applications that go straight into the shredder, for me, are those where the job we’re hiring for is a manufacturing role and your resume objective states you’re looking for a job as a medical assistant .

  99. cheeky*

    This also opens the door to your nontraditional home structure, which is probably not ideal to raise in an interview.

  100. StressedButOkay*

    OP, regardless of how well you do non-work things, even couched in work terms, it’s almost impossible to include them on a resume because of the differences in accountability or standards. This reminds me of the questions that Alison has received asking if it’s okay to put running a D&D campaign on their resume.

    I would mentally put those more towards skills that don’t go on the resume and put only what’s directly related to work on your resume as much as possible.

  101. Snarkaeologist*

    I understand why this looks weird in a professional context. But I kind of understand the letter writer’s impulse – it seems logical to get credited for things you’ve demonstrated you’re good at doing! I’ve been underemployed the past few years because I’ve been taking care of a family member, and honestly I’m sure I’d make a better employee now then before – I’ve had to develop a lot more organization, and practice more planning and coordinating, then I did as someone who lived alone and had a mostly independent job.

    That said, I wouldn’t claim this to an employer unless I was applying to some sort of caretaking or home-assistant work – partly because it would look bad, and partly because it’s not the way I want a company to think about me.

    And I think you need to be especially careful about this, OP, as someone who might be perceived as female. If the main impression your resume gives someone is that you’re really good at managing your home and family life, that can actually take away from them thinking of you as a potentially high-performing employee. It’s not fair, but you can’t risk it on a first impression.

  102. Observer*

    OP I read most, but not all of the comments. I see that you have gotten tons of comments about how your attempt to translate your adulting activities into work skills is going to backfire. Take them to heart – 99% of them are totally on the mark.

    What I saw less of is how some of this is going to make you look on a personal level. But you can be sure that it is not going to be positive.

    For example:

    I’m not going to be impressed that you use slack in your household, but although I might think it odd, it probably would not come off as that strange. But communicating and coordinating with your household via slack does NOT make is business communications and planning. So you come off as either clueless about this, or very, very strange in your personal life because who communicates with their housemates (especially the kid!) like they do with co-workers?! Not that it’s really is any of my business, or that of anyone else on the hiring committee, but the reality is that it is weirdness is going to jump out at us. And having some really strange interpersonal habits is not the thing you want potential employers to notice you for.

    As others have noted, if you need to dig for transferable skills, look to your art department. Unless you are a department of one. In which case you REALLY need to be more realistic in what you can think about as a starting point.

  104. Ellie May*

    Taking this approach will not strengthen your resume because it doesn’t communicate anything uniquely distinguishing. You are forgetting that the ‘business’ you are running lacks the pressures of the competitive environment, making it not real world. This isn’t a means to launching into an Ops career.

  105. Kate*

    While I wouldn’t put this ON the resume, maybe this person should seek employment AS A RESUME WRITER? Even though all that stuff are things we all do, they made it sounds way more impressive here!

    1. Galahad*

      Yep, I was thinking that too. The way that they write, their organization and attention to detail, professional apprach will certainly be self-evident in the cover letter, even if they do not mention a lot of these specific tasks. I mean, wow.

  106. SS Express*

    I treat everything like a business because it’s so much easier! I’m meeting friends for brunch on Saturday and have reminded them to forward me their items for discussion by Friday so I can distribute the agenda beforehand. I use spreadsheets for everything – I’m house hunting and built a loan-to-value ratio calculator in Excel so I can work out the finances down to the dollar; I keep addresses and contact details in a colour-coded spreadsheet instead of an address book in case I want to do a mail merge.

    None of this is on my resume because everyone hangs out with their friends and moves house and sends cards! I just approach these things in very organised manner – but honestly, lots and lots of people probably do the same. If I was telling an interviewer how organised I am or how comfortable I am using Excel I might mention these things, but I wouldn’t put much weight on them. I’d lead with all the times I’ve used these skills in my actual job.

    2. CleverGirl*

      Sounds like the worst brunch ever but that’s just me. When I’m not at work, I don’t want to feel like I’m still at work. Honestly, I couldn’t tell if you were being sarcastic until halfway through this post. What does the agenda for a Friends Brunch look like, exactly? I’m very curious about this.

  107. Jedi Squirrel*

    FWIW, your family situation and identity wouldn’t matter in the least to me. How you live your life is not my business as your employer. As long as you do the work you were hired to do and do it well, I’ll be happy as your employer.

    Sadly, in more conservative industries or more conservative organizations, the same may not hold true.

    I truly wish you the best, OP!

  108. Scarrie Fisher*

    This was so cringe-y. I, too, have an astounding credit score–brought on by the trauma of watching my mom struggle after my dad committed financial abuse for years–but I’m not going to bring that up in an interview…

    Everything in this letter highlighted what I hate about writing resumes and cover letters. I just see it as doing my job and I hate having to make everything sound so elaborate when I am literally just fulfilling all of my duties and doing it efficiently.

  109. Julia K.*

    Other commenters have raised good criticisms, but I want to take a different approach.

    The main reason that personal life skills don’t belong on resumes (but volunteer skills might) is because they’re unverifiable, right? That seems fair.

    But OP wants to pivot their career precisely because they have enjoyed developing these personal life skills and wants a job doing them in more depth.

    What if OP said “I want to work as a line cook at your restaurant because I’ve always enjoyed cooking at home, including for large parties?”

    Or “I want to work at this daycare because I raised six kids and loved the toddler stage?”

    Or the same for a landscaping service, housecleaning service, or interior decorating firm – all skills that most homeowners have to at least a minimal degree.

    These are common adulting skills, it’s true. And again, I agree that they don’t look strong on a resume because of the lack of professional accountability. But they still seem highly relevant. A skill is a skill: many workplace skills transfer to home use, and many homemaking skills transfer to work use, depending on the job.

    If OP wants a job doing essentially a more involved version of what they do at home, and they do it better than most adults do, that seems like a relevant and respectable thing to bring up in an interview.

    If we still find even that idea somehow disreputable, I think we should ask ourselves whether sexist ideas about “women’s work” being inferior to traditionally male-dominated professional norms are influencing our expectations. A skill is a skill, whether at home or at work.

    1. Anonymous at a University*

      “Or “I want to work at this daycare because I raised six kids and loved the toddler stage?””

      As someone who has a family member who worked in daycare and listened to her rant about people like this, um. Daycare workers need a LOT more than just “I love kids!” to succeed at their job. Among other things, they have to deal with a lot more kids at once; they have to enforce rules that parents can let slide; they have to spend a lot of time dealing with body-fluids accidents, often from multiple kids on the same day; they’ll be mediating conflicts between many kids of the same age, while a parent is unlikely to have that unless they have multiple sets of twins; and they’re often paid shit. It’s a physically exhausting job in many respects, as well. A SAHP doesn’t automatically qualify for a daycare worker because they’ve raised kids, particularly because of the same thing we’ve been bringing up here: no accountability. No one is judging the things you did with your kids in the privacy of your own home the way daycare workers get judged, hard, for the things they do with strangers’ kids. Maybe you raised kids, but successfully? Well? With every single skill daycare workers need? There’s no way to tell that.

      I agree that “women’s work” is often devalued, but we’re not going to cure the devaluation by deciding that someone who has been a parent/a cook/a lawn cutter automatically knows how to do a daycare worker’s/chef’s/gardener’s job. That’s basically going to the opposite extreme and saying that it’s a skill so easy that no one needs training to do it, anyone can! It only continues the devaluation.

      1. Me*

        “I agree that “women’s work” is often devalued, but we’re not going to cure the devaluation by deciding that someone who has been a parent/a cook/a lawn cutter automatically knows how to do a daycare worker’s/chef’s/gardener’s job. That’s basically going to the opposite extreme and saying that it’s a skill so easy that no one needs training to do it, anyone can! It only continues the devaluation.”

        Well said! I think that’s an important piece of this and what I was trying to get at in my comment below.

    2. Avasarala*

      You’re still not answering the question you yourself raise though: “The main reason that personal life skills don’t belong on resumes (but volunteer skills might) is because they’re unverifiable, right?” Yes, if by verifiable you mean there’s no boss to check if you really have that skill or not.

      “I want to work as a line cook at your restaurant because I’ve always enjoyed cooking at home, including for large parties”…well was your food good? Did it come out on time? Did your guests like it, or did you just have fun doing it?

      “I want to work at this daycare because I raised six kids and loved the toddler stage”… that’s great but did you ever leave them unattended? Did you order fast food instead of cooking a nutritious meal? Snap at them when you were tired or angry? Plop them in front of the TV instead of more interactive, age-appropriate content? These are things that are OK as a parent but you don’t want in a daycare worker.

      This has nothing to do with “women’s work”. It’s that your toddler can’t fire you for poor performance as a mom. Your guests aren’t demoting you if your food is bad. You could rewrite this with “traditionally male” domestic chores (yard work, house maintenance…) and it’s the same thing: there’s no accountability for how well you did, no boss checking that you actually have that skill.

      If OP wants to use this as evidence of their interests and motivation, that is fine, but it’s not evidence of their skills.

    3. Falling Diphthong*

      “I’m 19 and I like kids” might be enough to get you the job as assistant at the preschool. (Or they may want an early childhood education degree, and “I have been around kids, at least my own” is going to get your application laughed at.)

      “I’m 40 and I like organizing stuff, like my furniture” is not going to get you a job as Operations Officer.

    4. Me*

      But they’re not comparable skill sets.

      Say I’m looking for a line cook. Being a line cook during the lunch time rush isn’t the same as making dinner for your family. I have no idea if you’d be able to handle the pressure. I’d be more interested in someone who had been a dishwasher in a busy kitchen and demonstrated they could handle the rush.

      It’s not that they aren’t valuable skills. it’s that they aren’t generally comparable to the business world.

  110. Overagekid*

    I think elements of this (Being so fastidious with finances or the hiring of a babysitter) could help in an interview or cover letter so show attention-to-detail, experience working with finances or learned people skills.
    However I agree that it shouldn’t be on the CV/Resume and will stand out as irrelevant to a hiring manager.

  111. Me*

    I firmly believe this idea has become so prevalent is came about by the “salary” that periodically comes out about what it costs to be a stay at home parent if you’d be paid with some crazy amount of salary because you are doing the equivalent of xyz careers.

    I despise it because no, driving my kid around doesn’t make me a chauffeur and cooking meals doesn’t make me a chef. Homemaking absolutely has value but claiming it has some absurd inflated value comparing skills and tasks to careers people studied, went to school and worked their way up in is a disservice to those who stay home full time, work full time and everything in between. There’s nothing wrong with appreciating things on their own merit and not comparing them to something else to give it value.

  112. Galahad*

    I think that some of this can translate well into a “skills” section in your COVER — e.g. hiring a part time household staff person and setting up the payroll, deductions, and software to manage it, under a tax business entity / number, issuing end of year tax statements.

    Well, it could be, unless that is what you pay the payroll contractor for, and aren’t doing these things yourself.
    Otherwise, your cover would call out your organization, efficiency, and spreadsheet skills, and your “can do” approach to work that is new to you.

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