open thread – February 28-29, 2020

by Alison Green on February 28, 2020

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please do not repost it here, as it may be in my queue to answer.

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  1. Another JD*

    Any tips on sharing an office? I’m an attorney, and due to space constraints, I’m going to be sharing an office with our new associate. She’s mostly going to be doing transactional work, while I’ll be doing litigation so I’m more likely to be on the phone. Any ground rules I can set, since I’ll be in the new space first?

    1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      I’m not sure that “I was here first, so these are the rules that I have set for our shared space” is really a great start for space-sharing.

        1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

          I’m not sure what kind of “rules” would be reasonable here. Your questions below are absolutely excellent questions for a shared space, but none of them are rules that should be unilaterally established by one party – they’re discussions to have after both parties are present, with the possible exception of food issues a la “I have a lethal allergy to (eggplants) and absolutely cannot, at the risk of my life, have (eggplant) in this space.”

          Maybe that’s what Another JD meant to ask, what kind of rules should they be making in tandem with the new person, but the way they phrased the question with the “since I’ll be there first” really comes across as wanting to stake claim on the space, which is not really a way to begin a good space-sharing relationship.

      2. FormerFirstTimer*

        Yeah, I get that you’re there first, and you are more senior than the new associate, but you may want to try to be a bit more democratic when it comes to setting ground rules, just so you don’t make her miserable off the bat.

        1. Another JD*

          That probably wasn’t phrased in the most eloquent way. I’m buried in work and thrilled we’re getting some help, just nervous about sharing close quarters with someone I’ve never met. My only true non-negotiables are scented products (they trigger migraines) and background music without headphones (I can’t concentrate).

          1. Elenia*

            Oh yes, music. That did make me sad, as I went without music for a year, but no one had to ask me, I just turned it off immediately. Now I have my own office and don’t have to share and listen to music all day!

          2. Veronica Mars*

            I feel you on the migraines. With that I think you can plainly lay it out day 1.

            For the rest of it, I think you’re going to have much better luck addressing things as they come up. If she starts playing music out loud (which, who the heck does that anyway?) just kindly ask “would you please wear headphones when listening to music?” the very first time. Don’t sit there and deal with things letting your tensions ever-rise. Just ask for what you want. People aren’t mind readers. And, by the way, be prepared for her to ask things of you also. Thats how space sharing works, its a two-way street.

            1. Wired Wolf*

              A lot of my co-irkers have yet to grasp the concept of headphones/earbuds, mainly the cooks or cleaning staff. A lot of telenovelas, bad anime and WWE is streamed in the break room as well, all of this is blaring on crappy cellphone speakers.

          3. A Teacher*

            How are you going to police the scented products though? Fellow migraine sufferer–so I get it–certain scents are bad triggers. really bad triggers. I also teach in a classroom with lots of other bodies in and out. Its pretty hard to regulate the deodorant and face cream one buys–and yes they can have some strong scents. You may have to compromise on this a bit.

            2. WellRed*

              I would assume they don’t mean face cream and deodorant. That would be unreasonable (and also a sign your office might be too small ; ) More like perfume and maybe hand cream.

              1. Veronica Mars*

                I don’t think its unreasonable. Sorry, but my right to live migraine and asthma free outweighs your right to use Axe deodorant when there’s hundreds of less-scented products out there.

                Obviously there’s levels here – I don’t expect people to spend extra money on the super unscented stuff I use in my home. But if I can smell your deodorant a few feet away, really, its probably not a problem for more than just me.

                1. Sleve McDichael*

                  Coming in late here, but as someone who uses unscented deodourant, I can tell you that a majority of low and mid -priced brands stock an unscented option for exactly the same price – and I live in a non-capital city on an island off an island. So it’s not at all unreasonable to ask someone to switch. Even if they can’t switch brands for medical reasons, switching to roll-on rather than spray makes a big difference (and most medical deoderants are roll on anyway, so I would have some serious side-eye for anyone who said the only thing they can wear is Axe body spray).

            3. Another JD*

              I hope my new coworkers would be reasonable, but if it comes down to it, I’ll put in for an ADA accommodation. Scents can give me migraines, hives, nosebleeds, and allergy/asthma attacks which interfere with major life activities such as thinking and breathing.

            4. Veronica Mars*

              My work provided “dedicated fragrance free zone” signage explaining what is prohibited (perfume/cologne, heavily scented shampoo, lotion, and laundry detergent). Not saying everyone follows it, and WAY harder at a school. But for the most part people are respectful. And its way easier when its just a few coworkers you spend every day with.

          4. FormerFirstTimer*

            Those are both really reasonable and pretty common in shared workspaces. If I was the new associated I wouldn’t have an issue with either as long as they were presented in a nice way.

      3. Jessica Fletcher*

        I agree. OP should approach it as an equally shared space. It is both of their office, not OP’s office the new associate is going to use. OP doesn’t get to be the office dictator just because they already work there. That’s a recipe for letters to Alison. I’d say OP should read posts here about shared offices to get an idea of the decisions both of them will need to make together.

        1. Artemesia*

          I think these things go better when hammered out ahead of time. The OP should think about her important issues — scents, noise — and her likely annoying behavior like lots of phone calls and ask her officemate to identify her key issues and then work something out. Shared space and lots of client phone calls are IMHO not compatible — how does the rest of the office deal with the privacy violations as well as the noise involved?

          But hammer out basic rules together and then schedule touching base coffees or whatever through the first couple of months to adjust. Don’t just wait ‘until something bothers you’ — anticipate the obvious and identify a procedure for dealing with things that come up — all with the attitude that of course there will be frictions in sharing space and so we need to be open to adjustments.

    2. Elenia*

      1. What do you want to do about conference calls? Speaker or headphones? Regular calls are just a necessity.
      2. Scents and perfumes?
      3. Storage space?
      4. What to do about sensitive calls?
      5. Do other people report to you or her? Will they be popping in and out of the office all day long? Will there be sensitive conversations? How will those be handled?
      6. Foods? Are there any strong allergies anyone should know about?
      7. Plants or other decorations? Will everyone have their own space?

        1. Elenia*

          I shared an office with a WONDERFUL office mate for a year, and we learned a lot! These are issues that came up when I shared on office with a terrible mate.

        3. Mama Bear*

          Agreed. I think that asking for no perfumes and headphones is reasonable but you should also address your own phone calls and meetings. I think the biggest thing is just to be respectful of one another. I didn’t mind people eating at their desk near me as long as it didn’t smell weird, but some of my former officemates (open office) needed to be asked/told to clean up after themselves. I disliked the configuration which put me back to back with someone and we’d crash into each other if we rolled our chairs back at the same time. I’d also look at the office configuration and see if there’s a better way to use the space that suits you both. Like setting up a dorm room in college.

      3. Guacamole Bob*

        These are great questions, but I wouldn’t necessarily start out with a big conversation or meeting where you go through these kinds of questions up front. We’ve recently been doubled up in our offices, and most of the pairs seem to get along fine without formal rules or negotiations. To be fair, my department is mostly people of good will who are decent human beings who understand social norms around sharing space, which isn’t true everywhere, but I might start from the assumption that your officemate will be a member of the 80% of the population who are reasonable to share space with.

        If it turns out that you have really incompatible styles or that straightforward “hey do you mind using headphones for that?” or “could we split space on the bookshelf?” or “is there a time in the next couple of days when you’ll be out or should I book a conference room for a private call?” type things don’t go smoothly when they come up naturally, that might be a time for a more focused discussion.

        1. Artemesia*

          I find it much less stressful to have the discussion at the outset and hammer out the obvious — and acknowledge things will come up and need to be revisited — objecting for the first time when annoyed creates more resentments and the sense of being nagged. YMMV

          1. Guacamole Bob*

            YMMV for sure. If someone brought a couple of key things up the first day as I was settling in I wouldn’t be phased, especially if it was something health-related like an allergy or perfume/scent issue. But if someone scheduled a meeting with me to talk about how we were going to share space and brought a list of questions I’d find it kind of off-putting and wonder how high-maintenance my new officemate was going to be. If someone suggested we have regular coffee meetings to check in on sharing space, as someone in this thread suggested, I’d be even more braced for things to get weird.

            In the offices I’ve worked in even bringing up music proactively would be unnecessary and seem a little off. The general assumption is that you use headphones anywhere someone else might overhear the music.

      4. Booksnbooks*

        Would you actually change your eating patterns based on this? Just curious, because I have a allergy that makes me cough/sneeze/act like I’ve got a really bad cold when I can just smell the product. But I’ve always thought it unreasonable to ask someone not to eat it or for a group not to go to a restaurant that serves it, even though my chest gets tight when all this is happening. I just bring packs of tissues and deal. It would be heaven if someone in a shared tight quarters didn’t consume it, but I’ve never, ever feel like I could ask.

        1. Another JD*

          Ask. If I can minorly modify my behavior so you don’t get ill, then I will. If it was coffee that would be hard, but anything else and I’d do my best to accommodate. Even with coffee I’d make sure it was in a cup with a tight-fitting lid so the aroma didn’t spread, and try and finish it before sharing space.

        2. Artemesia*

          In sharing an office of course you can ask that a trigger food be avoided. Obviously easier if it is one thing and not something ubiquitous like tea or coffee or bread. I like tuna but could live with not having it in the office if it bothered an officemate.

        3. Tywin*

          I would if I were in those shoes! I come from a family with severe peanut/tree nut allergies and I’m used to accommodating others in that regard. When we dine out, we ask that they put allergen notices on all of our meals in the kitchen so that there’s no fear of someone else at the table flinging an errant walnut and causing a reaction. Plus that way the people with allergies can try a bite of other meals. What food/allergen triggers you?

    3. CTT*

      I don’t know what your firm’s transactional practice is like, but I’m a transactional associate and I am on a LOT of calls (weekly checklist calls for each deal, negotiating docs, etc.). The attorneys running her deals may prefer she join them in their offices for her calls, but I think you should work out some sort of call etiquette early.

    4. Celeste*

      Is there a separate meeting area or conference room? If so make a calendar for it now before you both plan to use it at the same time for a meeting or a just a project that needs to be spread out.

    5. LadyByTheLake*

      Having been both a transactional and litigation attorney, I can assure you that transactional attorneys probably spend as much or more time on the phone, although the fact that she’s junior will reduce that. It will be critical that you both have good phone headsets. Also, I shared an office when I was a summer associate and having clear rules about people coming by and chatting was key. There needed to be a clear option for either person to say “Hey, I’m trying to work here, do you mind moving the conversation elsewhere” without any hard feelings.

      1. Another JD*

        She’s junior, so to start her work will be running through me and the partners. When she’s up to speed she’ll be doing more calls, but I don’t anticipate that for awhile. We’ll probably have to hot desk to the conference room or a partner’s office for longer calls.

    6. Mid*

      Take sick days when you’re ill. There’s no escape if you’re sharing an office, and if you’re more senior, you have more flexibility to do that than your new coworker does.

      1. Another JD*

        I’m excited we’re getting a new person so that I can actually take a day when I’m sick without dropping the ball on work projects.

    7. MCL*

      I’ve shared an office for about 3-4 years with the same person. We partner on many projects, so when we reshuffled space on my floor we moved from two offices to one. We do work really well together overall, but here’s what helps:
      1) Noise cancelling/abating headphones. If she is meeting someone in our office or on the phone, I wear them and put on some music so that I can focus. She does the same.
      2) This is something I’m working on – figure out when office-mate can be interrupted without huge disruptions. If Office-mate is clacking away on her keyboard, I try not to interrupt her as she’s probably working on composing something. I try to be sensitive to her body language and we chat at natural breaks. If I need her input on a work issue, I try not to pepper her with conversation. I think it works out for the most part.
      3) It is helpful to have a shared calendar or some means of kind knowing each other’s schedules. Co-worker has been part-time up till recently and I am often asked if she’s around. Sometimes she’s stepped out, sometimes she’s gone for the day. The other issue is that sometimes someone will ask me a question that only she would know the answer to – people sometimes think we’re interchangeable. Just be cheerful and know that it might happen sometimes!

      1. MCL*

        Oh, and if have to hold private/confidential meetings, I do it in a conference room. If either of you ends up in a role that does a lot of private meetings you may need to lobby for your own space. My need for confidentiality is rare, so it works out for the most part.

    8. RecoveringSWO*

      Take a quick look at whether you or your new associate could face attorney-client privilege issues if their exposure to a phone call would constitute a waiver. It’s probably not an issue, especially if you’re work is connected, but it’s something to address.

    9. Aquawoman*

      Are you worried that the sound of them flipping through the contract pages is going to interrupt your calls? Seems like they got the worse end of that deal.

    10. drivesmenuts*

      I am in a slightly similar situation: I already share an office with four other people. They are excellent office-mates and everyone respects each others’ privacy and workloads. There’s a lot of good conversation that happens but also plenty of quiet work time. I am expected to move offices to share with two new office-mates. These two have already shared an office for a few years. The big problem I am anticipating is that one person is a reactionary pessimist who likes to complain, the other is a over-thinker and over-talker. I tend to absorb the personalities of the people around me and I really don’t want to be in an office with these two. They will ruin my happy groove that I have found. I used to work for both of them and know how terribly defeating they can be. They hate it here, they hate everyone, they have terrible solutions to problems, and they tend to just complain than actually try to change things. I have spent a year trying to get that out of my system since I stopped working for them.

      Can I tell management that I won’t switch offices? What’s a good excuse to use, other than “these people are terrible and I don’t want to be around them”?

      1. New Job So Much Better*

        Tell your manager how much your work habits have improved being in the office of 4, and that you’d like to stay there. No need to complain about the other guys. Good luck!

        1. Ermmm*

          So smart! Totally perfect approach – make it about how well you work in your current environment and it’s made a big difference for you in the past year, you have improved on X, Y and Z due to your ability to concentrate or bounce ideas off like-minded people, etc.

          New Job So Much Better is brilliant!

        2. CM*

          I would complain about the other guys — you could do it as a second step, maybe, but I think it may influence the manager’s decision to know both “drivemenuts likes their current situation” and “drivesmenuts will be unhappy and less productive in the new situation.” So in addition to “I’m more productive where I am” I’d add, “Having worked with [coworkers] before, I know that our work styles can conflict with each other. I would find this to be a stressful and unproductive work environment for me.”

    11. Dust Bunny*

      I share an office with an intern and, until recently, another coworker.

      A lot of it is basic courtesy: No loud music, keep your stuff under control, don’t read things aloud under your breath, etc. Basically, your rights end at each others’ noses/ears/close personal spaces.

      However, unless you have needs that are above and beyond the norm–life-threatening food allergy, frequent conference calls, etc.–I would start out assuming that she’s going to be a reasonable person and address things only if needed. We didn’t have a big meeting amongst ourselves and ended up never mentioning any of this because everybody by default wore headphones/kept her things under her desk/didn’t microwave fish and there was no reason to bring it up.

    12. Seeking Second Childhood*

      Look at the 5S guidelines–they were originally designed for Factory type work spaces, but they can be useful in shared office space as well.

  2. Another JD*

    Any tips for helping onboard a new attorney? I’m currently the only associate, but we’re hiring two junior associates that will be starting in a few weeks. My onboarding was basically filling out the I-9 forms then being given a pile of work to start on. It was less than ideal.

    1. Legally a Vacuum*

      Will they be working with the same clients? I’m in house, but an excel sheet of ongoing projects and 1-2 lines giving a really broad view was helpful when I was getting my feet under me. Naturally I had to do the work to get up to speed, but having a framework made my first few weeks much more productive.

      If they’re going to be on different projects, then I think making yourself available for a couple lunch conversations about workplace culture would be useful.

      2. Veronica Mars*

        Yes, this. When I was in a rotational program (changing jobs every 9 months x 4) we had a ‘job contract’ we built together the first day and used as a tool during weekly check ins, and I liked it a lot.

        It started with big picture learning goals, then what project would support the goals. Over time you added a timeline and status to milestones. This isn’t a huge big thing. It was like 4 goals total and maybe a milestone for every 2-4 weeks, with some project supporting multiple goals.

        It was also a great document for 2 way discussion – because sometimes I’d say “oh, hey, I’m surprised you didn’t list learning TPS reports on here, I was really looking forward to that” and they’d find a TPS project for me to work on.

    2. AttorneyToo*

      You need to set forth expectations for how to handle workload (i.e. what must be done first.). They need to know how you or someone else will be tracking their workload to ensure that they are not missing deadlines or important meetings. They need to be trained on e-filing and your internal filing system as well as how they will be submitting their time sheets for billing. It is also important that you remind them about their ethical obligations. I hope this helps.

      1. Elenia*

        I also talk to them straight up about the culture of the office. Better to give them a little heads up about anything weird (lights, stuff like that) then have them get cursed out or talked about.

    3. Class of 2015*

      Check out her resume and how much experience she has. Someone with no professional experience will need to have way more spelled out for her. For instance, when I was a new attorney I asked my supervisor how to use the fax machine, and she nicely pointed out that I needed to ask our admin assistant instead of her, and that I should be mindful about finding the appropriate person to ask questions of. It was my first office job, so I appreciated guidance like that, and it was said in a tone of “let me help you with this” rather than “You’re dumb and you messed up.”

      If you notice that the new associates aren’t conforming with the dress code, or if they’re taking way longer for lunch than is acceptable in your firm’s culture, say something. If there are tips and tricks (“Bob hates email and gets buried in them, so go talk to him in person”) or “Kevin loves email and doesn’t want to see you in person ever”) be sure to let them know.

    4. Emmie*

      Junior associates may need more guidance on the law. Pointing them to useful sources will speed up their learning curve, and help them be more productive quickly. i.e. If you’re looking at regulations impacting x issue, you’ll want to check these Admin regulations, and this state agency website for the current / archived manual.

    5. Coverage Associate*

      Though it was awful at first, providing sample time entries and templates eventually was really helpful.

      Some explanation of the duties of each support person is also important. Do you ask your secretary or a copy person to make copies? Do lawyers do their own redactions? Who orders supplies? Do lawyers set up all their own documents, or should secretaries first create a template?

    6. Coverage Associate*

      Also, tips for email: What folders to set up immediately, what to save, what can be deleted.

      Also, documents generally. Are you all electronic? Who maintains client files? Like, if something that obviously needs to be saved comes in, does it just go to a file clerk, or do lawyers maintain their own files, etc.?

    7. Contracts Killer*

      I’m an attorney too, but it looks like the other attorneys have the legal stuff covered. Here are my suggestions for on-boarding ANYONE, but in particular attorneys:
      – Explain internal soft and hard deadlines.
      – Explain office culture, in particular, norms about eating at your desk, doors opened or closed, email v phone, popping by v setting meetings, if your office uses Slack, Jabber, or other messaging, etc.
      – Let them know about any building/local discounts, the best places to park, shortcuts and indoor/covered routes to walk in bad weather, closest vending machine, closest restroom. These tips always seem to be appreciated.
      – Sharing an office, it may also be helpful to set a dedicated window each day for the new hire to ask you questions and have work reviewed. That will give her confidence that you will be helpful, and keep you from being constantly interrupted. Maybe dedicated phone call times, too.

      Good luck! The fact you’re even asking for advice tells me you will be a considerate roomie.

    8. AJK*

      Does your firm have paralegals or legal assistants? If so, it might be helpful to have them meet with the people they’ll be working with so they know what everyone’s roles are. I (a paralegal) generally meet with a new attorney to talk about our procedures, mostly the office stuff, but also to let them know what they can delegate as they get more familiar with the way things work. A lot of our very junior attorneys have no idea what a paralegal is or what we do, and since every firm uses their paralegals and support staff a little differently, it helps to lay that stuff out clearly from the beginning.

      1. Black's Law Dictionary*

        +1 Agree! There are so many tasks that attorneys just don’t need to do that paralegals/legal assistants can do for them. Also, give the attorney several choices as to how to record his/her time. On a calendar? On an Excel spread sheet? Enter the time into the system on his/her own? There’s most likely a standard for how the time is input into the system, but every attorney has a different style (comfortable for him/her) of recording daily time so that it can be input into the system. It’s helpful if the attorney is introduced to anyone who will be working for/directly supporting him/her and what that person does/does not do. Clerks, runners, assistants, paralegals … everyone has a different set of tasks.

  3. Combinatorialist*

    What do people do for stress relief during the work day? This is a more general problem of mine that I will probably ask about tomorrow as well, but I’m realizing I don’t have great stress relief techniques.

    1. Elenia*

      I take a walk almost every single day. It gives me peace and quiet and a little downtime. I don’t walk with anyone, since I am strongly introverted and my position is very extroverted, so I walk alone and I think or read on my cell phone or practice my DuoLingo.

      1. Leslie Knope*

        I’m very fortunate to have a public library across the street from my office. I’ve gone over there before when I had a headache and it was a busy, bustling day in the office. I just needed some peace and quiet! I know it’s not always feasible to leave your office to find some peace, so taking a walk is a great idea!

        1. KimberlyR*

          This doesn’t ring true for me. If you were truly Leslie Knope, you would know that you hate the library!

          (Just kidding! I wish I could escape to the library for peace and quiet during my workday.)

      2. Donkey Hotey*

        BIG fan of walking. I’ve been known to come back from break soaked from the rain (wore a coat and hat but the rain will run off the coat and onto the pants) but it’s worth it.

    2. Misty*

      Have you tried deep breathing? It may sound dumb but it’s helped me a lot. Where you breathe in counting to four, hold for five, and then breathe out counting to six (or you can count to whatever works for you). The best part is usually people can’t tell if you’re concentrating on your breathing.

      2. Mockingjay*

        Spotify has quite a few deep breathing, guided meditations. Some are only 3 minutes long and are perfect for a quick recharge.

        I listen to a lot of very mellow focus or yoga-type music playlists these days. Keeps blood pressure low and helps me tune out distractions. Put on headphones and type away…

      3. ...*

        I thought this was cheesy for 30 years and finally tried it a couple times and it WORKS. I breathe in deeply, hold for 3 long seconds and slowly release. I’m sure there are different techniques you could try. Sometimes I will just go into the single stall restroom, deep breathe and wash my hands. It makes me feel better!

      4. Artemesia*

        There are a bunch of on line videos to use for 5 minutes deep breathing exercises; here are a couple I use.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7m4pm12yxQ
        https://www.gaiameditation.com/heart-coherence-exercise-heart-infinity/
        By googling you’ll find many others.
        There are also lots of peaceful videos to focus on to try to get to a calm place like these. I find them useful before bedtime to calm down but should work on a stressful day in the office.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWjmpSD-ph0

    3. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      I like to interrupt my day by taking a walk outside; 5-10 minutes helps me clear my head.

      1. Llama Face!*

        Me too! Getting out of the building seems to be the key thing for me to benefit from the time away; it’s not the same if I just go to the break room.

    4. De Minimis*

      I try to get out and walk at least twice a day, usually at mid-morning and also around lunchtime. I’ve done this for years and it’s really helped.

    5. Bubbles*

      Basic stretches you can do in your chair or just standing up next to your desk really help. Rolling ankles and shoulders, etc. You can YouTube examples.

      1. Librarian of SHIELD*

        Oh yeah, shoulder stretches and ankle rolling can totally help when stress gets your muscles all tense. Try “writing” the letters of the alphabet in the air with your foot. It can get your ankles moving in ways they typically don’t and you can get a pretty good stretch while you’re still at your desk doing work.

    6. ThatGirl*

      Walk around the floor/building. Make a cup of tea. Sit quietly by a window for 10-15 minutes. Eat some chocolate. :)

    7. AppleStan*

      Aside from stress balls and fidget spinners?

      I get up and walk around the office, and if the weather isn’t bad, I’ll walk around outside. Just a quick 5 or 10 minute exposure to outside can boost my spirits and relieve some stress/tension.

      I think there are also some stretches that you can do at your desk – some google-fu might help with that regard.

      1. Aquawoman*

        I was going to suggest toys also. I have a paper yoyo, one of those little wheels on rails flippy things, a squishy cat.

    8. Librarian of SHIELD*

      I think being able to leave my workstation is one of the best stress relievers I’ve found. If your office is in an area where you can step outside for a quick walk around the block, that’s something that’s always helped me.

    9. Zap R.*

      Go for a walk at lunch if you can. If there’s an unused room you can duck into for five minutes to do some stretching/low-key yoga poses, that helps too. Set alarms on your phone or download a browser plug in to remind you to get up and move around every 90 minutes or so.

    10. londonedit*

      I definitely always try to get out of the office for a walk at lunchtime. Even just 10 minutes or so is enough to get some fresh air, or if the weather’s nice and there’s somewhere nice to sit near where you work, you could eat your lunch outside or just sit for a few minutes and do nothing.

      Also this is why tea is so important in British offices – it gives you a natural excuse for a break. You can wander to the kitchen and have a couple of minutes to yourself while you’re making your cup of tea – even longer if you’ve offered to make a round for the other people in your immediate office vicinity. Tea making can also provide a good opportunity to have a quick chat with people, whether that’s work-related or just having a brief conversation about last night’s football or whatever your weekend plans are.

      1. 404UsernameNotFound*

        THIS. I have to get up at least once every hour because I’m out of water again, and at least one of my favourite colleagues is also generally out there making a cuppa – gives us a perfect opportunity to rant about the trains or fanchild about whatever retro games we were playing at the weekend. Or, alternatively, moan about actual programming in a semi-productive fashion since it inevitably leads to “oh, my meeting just got cancelled, I’ll scoot over and have a look if you like”.

        1. londonedit*

          Yep, I don’t know how many times I’ve ended up with a helpful suggestion, or been able to help someone else out, thanks to a quick chat while making a cuppa!

    11. Kenzi Wood*

      I used to listen to meditation music, like, nonstop. Breathing exercises, lunchtime walks, and playing my favorite video game in my car during lunch kept me sane.

      1. Lemon Squeezy*

        100% on the car time during lunch. It’s my recharge period, whether it be for uninterrupted reading or power napping after a very stressful morning.

    12. Jack Be Nimble*

      I get up and go for short walks (my office tower is attached to a mall/convention center, so there’s places to walk even in winter), get coffee from a nicer coffee shop, and work on crossword puzzles during downtime. If things are really tense, I’ll find an open call room and take a few minutes to collect myself.

    13. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      I’ll close my door and do some stretching, take walks and text my feels to my people or tweet. It helps from the pile up issues!

    14. blink14*

      I always take my lunch break, the only exceptions being if an event or very rare meeting falls during lunch. I never take my lunch break at my desk. I almost always read during those breaks, which I find keeps my mind engaged but helps relax it by engaging in something different to my work tasks.

      I also try not to sit for more than hour at a time – I’ll take a quick walk around the floor, use the bathroom, etc.

    15. Muriel Heslop*

      Five minutes in a dark supply closet with deep breathing and occasional zen music with my ear buds. Walk the halls between classes (totally empty). Pretend to be on a call in my office and just doodle. Breathing fresh air!

      None of these are groundbreaking, but I find when I am focused on doing things to manage my stress I *do* them and it really helps. Good luck!

    16. Mid*

      My building has a gym, so I work out in the middle of the day.

      Otherwise, seconding what everyone else has said—deep breathing, grounding exercises, talk a walk, try to go outside if possible.

    17. Holy Moley*

      Stress balls and getting away from my desk even if its just for a shot walk. I work in a very large building so Im able to take a good walk to clear my head if I need to.

    18. Champagne Cocktail*

      I second getting away from your desk even if it’s just for a few minutes. If the weather is too back to go outside, just moving around seems to help a lot.

      I’ll usually make a cup of tea. 3-5 minutes of steeping time is an opportunity to be away from the desk and breathing.

    20. CupcakeCounter*

      A few ideas (several have already been suggested):
      -take a brief walk, ideally away from your area (outside if the weather is good, a different floor of your building if not)
      -stress ball/putty – helps my husband’s anxiety and ADHD
      -Music: I have 2 playlists on my phone – one that is soft, soothing calm music for if I am worked up and want to chill and another that is hark rock/metal for when I am pissed off and need to feed that (seems counter intuitive but really helps…I silently scream along so there is a little bit of a release). Sometimes I will also put on my son’s goofy kids songs like I like to Move it from the Madagascar movies, the bunnies version of Baby Got Back from Sing, etc… or my vacation playlist (all of the songs are about beaches or cocktails).
      -Read – usually a very light romance or something with comic relief
      -Go out to my car, drive to the far back of the parking lot, and SCREAM

    21. Bunny Girl*

      If screaming into the void isn’t an option, deep breathing, stretching, and scheduling breaks is my go to. I’ve found that if I go for a little walk around the building every hour or two I tend to get less stressed out than not. I also use one of my breaks to meditate for just a couple minutes (I use HeadSpace!). I also make sure I leave the office for lunch to get out and reset.

      The Georgia Aquarium also has several live webcams that I’ve found very relaxing.

      1. Poppleton*

        Just wanted to say thank you for the aquarium web cam recommendation- this will be my new down-time viewing on breaks at work!

    22. Viette*

      I move a lot at work so I don’t need more movement to shake off the stress; I like either watching zoo/aquarium webcams or, actually, meditation. I’m not very good at meditating but it’s valuable to me. I also like taking 5 minutes to do part of a crossword or some other mentally engaged but low-stakes task. I would say try whatever is the most different from what you do in the rest of your workday, whether it’s get up and move or sit down and rest, collect your thoughts or make your mind blank.

    23. WineNot*

      Sometimes I will go into our single person bathroom and turn the light off, lean against the wall and just in the dark and breathe for a few minutes. Kind of shuts the rest of the world out for a few minutes. If the sun is out, I will also sometimes go outside and just want in the sun. Seems to help me calm down!

    24. Salsa Your Face*

      I know this sounds dumb, but I have my computer background set to rotate between a folder full of 50 or so beautiful, scenic images. It changes every 15 minutes. When I switch between programs I briefly see the background–I never know which picture it’s going to be–and I take a moment to breath deeply and appreciate it. If scenery isn’t your thing, use puppies or family pictures or whatever floats your boat.

    25. The Great Octopus*

      So there’s a famous personality who’s kind of an odd ball (Andrew WK) and he once posted about how you should stop what you’re doing and “take a deep breath, improve your posture, and visualize yourself riding a dragon with me” and it never fails to make me giggle and relax.

      Super odd thing, but it seriously works. Try it – take a deep breath straighten up and imagine riding a dragon. Without fail (at least for me) it releases the tension I’m holding and distracts me enough to relax and regroup for a few minutes.

    26. Mad Harry Crewe*

      I knit lace, and find it’s a really good mix of attention/inattention. Once I’ve got a repeat memorized, it doesn’t require my whole focus, but it does provide an anchor so I can’t just mentally hamster-wheel myself to death. It’s also a very pleasant tactile sensation, which is kind of grounding. And at the end of 15 or 30 minutes, I’ve made real progress on an actual, physical object that will bring someone joy. It’s portable and doesn’t take up much space, and sometimes it starts conversations (but if I don’t want to chat, I can briefly acknowledge/answer a question and then turn my attention back to my work).

      Obviously other hand crafts will do the same, it doesn’t have to be knitting.

    27. CM*

      I used to meditate at lunch, which worked well until it didn’t. If this is an SOS destress situation, there’s also a song called “weightless” that was proven to cut stress by 60% or something. I don’t really get why, but listening to that feels good. Also, this is hard to explain, but there’s a thing you can do with your arms – cross your wrists, clasp your hands, and then bend your elbows so your crossed clasped hands are under your chin. That also immediately feels soothing.

    28. Working for yarn*

      Something I do at home but that is helping me at work is meditation. The work stresses/brain trolls/family stresses start rolling, and instead of not noticing (or ignoring it) until it’s a massive avalanche of horrible stress, I’ve started to notice it when it’s small and manageable. I can then step back, regroup my thoughts, and get my frontal lobe engaged instead of my amygdala (logic brain instead flight or fight). It has helped me with “some” of my procrastination, which is usually due to stress. I have good days and bad days, but the good days have started to out number the bad days.

      Caveats: I practice at home, not at work. It has taken me 2 months to get to this point (I made a goal of 15 minutes of meditation every day for 2020 and so far I’ve only missed 4 days, which makes me happy). I really had to commit to my goal (have a goal tracker app for that now) because there are days when even 15 minutes seems like too much. I use a mediation app (which is ~$75 Cdn for a year) to help – the app has everything from 2 minute meditations to an hour or more. It also has guided meditations, or just background music/sound for a set period of time. I could see though using some of the less than 5 minutes meditations to help with stress at work, and I may start doing that when I can sit outside during lunch (too much snow at the moment).

    29. Diahann Carroll*

      I do yoga or go to the gym for a half hour to an hour (I work from home). If you don’t work from home and your office doesn’t have a gym onsite, I agree with the others saying you can take a walk, get up from your desk and do stretches, and go take a coffee or tea break.

    33. DaisyJ*

      I make sure that I leave the building or my office for at least a few minutes a day. Some days I am gone my entire hour lunch break just sitting in my car – others its a quick five minute walk around the parking lot. Just need a bit of space and my stress level usually goes down.

    34. Combinatorialist*

      Thanks everyone for the suggestions! This has been really helpful. Many of these things are things I used to do, but haven’t been doing recently. Partly because the logistics of some of them are hard/different in my current office, compared to how I have done things in the past. However, while a few of these logistics are deal-breakers (I absolutely cannot go to my car during lunch, though I would love to go play my favorite video game for a few minutes), I can achieve many of them with a little more forethought and planning and adjusting of habits. And what this has shown me is I need to put that effort in now to figure out how to make more of these things possible.

    35. theletter*

      so this isn’t an immediate fix, but I found that getting a high impact workout (like a crossfit or weightlifting) in the morning can help me feel pleasantly relaxed and focused during the day.

    36. Not So NewReader*

      Oddly, the more worried I am then the more being organized helps me.

      I try to identify the thing(s) that concern me the most. I target those things to see if the task is organized in a logical manner. I tried to estimate what I will need for the task that will take the longest to get and then I start trying to get that hard-to-reach thing.

      When I am stressed, the basics get by me. I make sure I write down deadlines on my calendar. I make a daily to-do list each night before going home. I have a huge glob of keys that I need to do my job. Knowing me, I will absent-mindedly set the keys down and get derailed by something that is actually a very deep dark pit. Then, later, where are the damn keys? Solution, put the keys on a lanyard and not allow myself to put them any where but on my neck after using the keys. This stuff here comes under the heading of “take care of the stresseers you already know about.”

      Stress prevention: A recent example at work there has been a change where keeping track of all X’s is important. It did not used to be important. It’s a royal pain to do, also. [Insert uproar here.] But reality, it’s now part of my job and I can see if I do not have that information organized it WILL bite me in the butt. I took the time (that I do not have) and made myself a spread sheet for tracking X’s. I printed it out and showed my boss. She made the additions or corrections she thought we needed. I now have a spread sheet in each file for all X’s. I feel a lot calmer about the tracking and I see my boss feels very confident that we are totally on top of this change. Nothing like having a happy boss, ya know? We are walking through this uproar like it’s just nothing major for us. I have recouped the time spent many times over by now, because I am not spending hours each day trying to piece together the tracking.

      Oddly, stuff at home can be supportive. Younger me would get up 45 minutes before work and race around trying to get out the door. Boy, that was a bunch of unnecessary stress and it did set a tone for my day.
      I have also done the thing where I keep driving a car that really needs to go to the shop. Don’t do that, the worry from driving an unsafe vehicle is not worth the “savings” in time. Don’t skip meals, eat something even if it’s just a protein bar. Fighting hanger on top of fighting stress is just too much. Work and eat if you have to, but do eat. Days are a lot harder when we have no fuel in us.

      In short, look at the predictable sources of stress and do something to stop or lessen the impact from those sources. There are always unforeseens. But it has been my experience that preparation for predictable problems makes those unforeseens easier to handle.

      1. Combinatorialist*

        This is 100% my usual go to, but apart from the desire to do less of it, I recently discovered an intolerance to ALL my favorite foods so it isn’t even effective for me anymore.

    38. Chronic Overthinker*

      One moment meditation is great. Close your eyes, take three deep breaths while focusing on your breathing and open your eyes. You can try for longer, but if you’re in an office setting sometimes you only have 30 seconds to a minute to de-stress and this works great.

    39. SI*

      Do you like tea? I’m not talking about terrible tea bags that get oversteeped and turn bitter, but good loose tea.

      I hated tea until I started brewing with loose leaves and water at the proper temperature. Now, I find putting water in the electric kettle and making tea in my little gaiwan (Chinese cup with a lid) and drinking it to be rather relaxing. Part of it is the tea tastes really good and the other part is just taking the time to relax.

      At my last job I just put the infuser basket in the mug and would do quick steeps. My friend had co-workers that would happily pull out an electric kettle in the afternoon, brew some tea, and take a small break.

    40. Fake Old Converse Shoes (not in the US)*

      We walk around the office complex after lunch. And sometimes we’re lucky and we play Mario Kart at the playroom. My manager, on the other hand, attended the lunchtime yoga lessons.

    41. The Beagle Has Landed*

      A couple of things, the first two involving leaving my desk as many have suggested:
      (1) go get a cup of tea. I have just acquired the cutest tea infuser that’s a shark who hangs on the side of my teacup and makes me smile every time. Plus the tea is so much better when you make it with loose leaves. A friend of mine brought back an amazing tea assortment from London and I am hooked! The only thing I now have to calibrate is how late in the day I can drink it before it keeps me up at night, as none of it is decaf.
      (2) get up, take your phone, put in headphones, and blast a “mood lifter” or “confidence booster” or “stress relief” or some other playlist like that on Spotify as you walk (fast) around the block. Both the walking and the music get me out of my funk.
      (3) journal your feelings in the moment, or write an email that you will never send to the subject of your stress. No holds barred, let it all hang out. Maybe send it, but I strongly advise at least sleeping on it first. I did that on Monday when I got some bad news about a job I was passed over for (the job I am actually currently doing – full time, specialized, work while also getting my “real” job done) and I just reread it and cringed about how it would have gone over had I sent it. But in the moment, it really helped me get back my perspective to get it out of my system!

    42. Mina, The Company Prom Queen*

      One thing that has worked for me has been to put in my ear buds and listen to motivational speeches and videos I found on YouTube or podcasts. Oprah has some great speeches and there are so many others. Also love Matthew McConaughey’s motivational speech. If you search for those, you’ll find even more. I just listened to a bunch on my phone with my earbuds while working.

      1. allathian*

        Good for you! That wouldn’t work for me, though, as I write for a living and I can’t handle listening to anything other than possibly instrumental music at the same time.

    43. MysteryFan*

      Sadly, when I had a very stressful job, my coping strategy was Twinkies from the canteen in the basement! In my defense, it was 30 years ago when Twinkies were (sorta) good.. lol

    44. Sepia Apama*

      Personally, I get the most stressed at work when I get too invested in a project, and its failure then makes ME feel like a failure, even if it was totally out of my hands. So, to de-stress, I practice non-work-related skills for a minute or two. Sometimes I bring a sketchbook and practice drawing or calligraphy while I wait for a conference call to start, or knit a row of a scarf at the end of my lunch break, or do an exercise on Duolingo while I reheat my coffee. It’s a tangible reminder of my self-worth in a challenging environment, and really cheers me up.

    45. Princesa Zelda*

      If I can get away for a quick 15-minute break, I usually go outside and sit with my eyes closed, taking deep, slow breaths and focusing very hard on something that is Not Work. Not Work could be anything — I often write fanfiction in my head, but sometimes I think very hard about cats or superpowers or what I am going to have for dinner. It’s not meditation, because I absolutely suck at meditation, but I find it calms me down really effectively!

    46. Who Plays Backgammon?*

      Ditto on the walks. TAKE YOUR BREAKS and walk around the block.

      Flowers. There’s a market up the block from my office with a floral dept. so I can take a short walk and extra-treat myself. There’s always something on special for only a few dollars. Look away from the computer/paperwork/evil client and enjoy the blooms.

    47. rhyme and reason*

      I brought in some small nerf guns and put them in our rarely used conference room with a target.

  4. Misty*

    I posted on 1/24 questioning if I should change my major, on 1/31 saying I would stay with social work, on 2/14 that I was thinking of changing to english, and on 2/21 my decision to switch to Geography with a minor in professional writing.

    I am excited about my new major, this summer, and next semester. I signed up for two summer courses, found a summer job, and am happy about my decision regarding my major. All the papers I’ve turned in, I’ve gotten As on.

    I have been struggling with extreme anxiety and depression for the past couple of weeks regarding my current social work classes. (I have a therapist so don’t worry) For example, when I try to write an essay on an assigned and depressing topic, it usually ends with me crying. One essay I wrote by the end I had thrown up, was crying, and couldn’t stop shaking for hours after. Obviously I am not 100% cured of my PTSD but it is much easier to cope when you’re not taking classes daily on abuse and writing essays on the topics such as elder abuse, oppression, racism, discrimination, ect. I think things will be better next semester when studying something that isn’t as painful.

    I’m trying to focus on the positives which is that I picked a major that I’m excited about, I have a summer job lined up, and my grades are good. By the end of this upcoming week, I will be halfway through the semester since there are only 14 weeks of classes total.

    Not the most positive update but I’m still hopeful that things will be better after this semester. At least I know Im making the right choice leaving sw.

    1. Purt's Peas*

      I remember your post about SW. I’m so glad that you have a change in sight and that you’re able to (successfully!) work toward it. Really wonderful job–inertia is a nightmare and it can be so hard to change tack even if something isn’t working, but you’re doing it!

    3. DG*

      If you are studying geography and professional writing – please think about taking some GIS courses. There are not a lot of people who do GIS that have the technical writing skills that go along with it. You’d be a good asset to teams that build GIS products and then need to do white papers/technical specification writing for those tools.

      Best of luck to you! I love geography and its an excellent career path.

      1. CheeryO*

        Misty posted last week too and mentioned GIS specifically. I think that’ll be a really great combination of skills!

      3. Misty*

        Yes! My school has multiple GIS classes and I’m going to take them all :) I’m really excited about it. I also have to do two internships to graduate which I think will be awesome experience also.

    4. ten-four*

      Oh wow, I’m SO proud of you for switching away from Social Work! There is ZERO need for you to put yourself through such a miserable experience, and I’m so happy for you that you made such a healthy and happy choice. I hope you learn a lot from your summer job and your new classes, and start building out a career that you can excel in, make money from, and find contentment with!

    5. Sara*

      You have made a great choice for yourself. Social Work is not for the feint of heart and I know people who went into it and suffered terribly themselves as a result. Geography is a great growing field and coupled with writing skills… you are setting yourself up for success. Congrats!

    6. GeoRunner*

      Fellow geographer, here! Graduated with my degree in GIS in 2016 and have been working in geography since. There’s a fun little trend in geography, and that is almost nobody that ends in geography started out in geography.. it’s often a path people find along their way. I started off college thinking I wanted to work in the medical field, and quickly realized I wasn’t cut out for it mentally/emotionally. I hope you find yourself in good company within geography! Best of luck!

    7. MCL*

      I also had a year of tough sledding in a major that was a bad fit through my first year of college, and I remember how miserable I was. It was such a relief to turn away from it and turn over a new leaf – like a new chance at my academic career. I hope this is also a breath of fresh air for you. Best wishes.

    8. Frankie*

      Just wanted to commiserate! There are a number of careers I had to rule out because I couldn’t detach from the really serious, bad-in-the-world stuff they confronted day-to-day. Even people who go into those professions with really good boundaries can burn out. It sucks to move away from those areas where a lot of help is needed but good for you for being realistic about your current limits and taking care of yourself.

      And just know that if you ever want to change your mind, your major is not do-or-die. You’ll learn, grow and probably change careers multiple times through your life.

    9. Not So NewReader*

      It’s almost a mantra for me: “Just because I understand a problem does not automatically mean I have to help fix it.” You don’t have to do social work because you think you should.
      Put yourself in places where you will flourish, not flounder.

      This sounds like a really cool choice and I am excited for you!

  5. Anongineer*

    Hi all!
    I posted late last Friday about the security guard who said creepy things like “oh you’re so pretty seeing you leave always brightens my day” and followed me to my car. I’ll post a link in a comment.
    First, a huge thanks to those that commented last week – I was frustrated and weirded out but wasn’t sure what I was going to do. I had told some friends over the weekend, and they ALL started with “oh, he likes you and just doesn’t know how to express it” to which I strongly pusehd back. You all pushed me towards reporting to HR, which I had planned to do. I was somewhat concerned about retaliation – I know it’s very unlikely, but I like to consider all possible decisions and be prepared for the outcomes. He knows where I work, my approx. schedule, and what my (somewhat distinctive) car looks like, so I wanted to be prepared in case he were to confront me or become aggressive or violent (again, highly unlikely, wouldn’t have prevented me from reporting, but my brain works in mysterious ways). Also, Criminal Minds makes you paranoid for life!
    She let me know it wasn’t ok and that she’d be emailing building management to let them know (which she did later that day). She also recommended that someone walk me to my car when I leave as a precaution, which I’ve done. Building management replied that they would be addressing it immediately, and also scheduled a meeting with my HR for this afternoon to discuss the incident in further detail. None of my details were shared, but if I was the only one he was creepy to it wouldn’t be hard for him to figure out.
    I haven’t seen him since last week, which has been good and bad. Good in that I’d like to never see him, bad in that it’s almost waiting for the other shoe to drop in where will he appear next? One of the guys that walked me to my car was joking that I had caused this man to lose his job (side note: please don’t do that people! It already sucks that this happened, don’t make me feel bad for reporting someone who was doing creepy ish on the job) and I called him out for it. 
    So…. in summary: Reported security, HR was fantastic, the issue seems to be getting resolved! Thanks again everyone!

      1. tangerineRose*

        For anyone who hasn’t read this link, check it out. The details are much creepier than the summary.

    2. AppleStan*

      Glad things are moving in the right direction.

      Always remember…you didn’t make him lose his job (if he did), his own actions caused him to lose his job.

    3. stitchinthyme*

      It always really makes me angry when people blame someone who has reported another person’s actions for that person experiencing the consequences of those actions. If that guy lost his job, that is NOT your fault! He made the choice to act creepy towards you, and you are not to blame for feeling uncomfortable or for reporting it, any more than a crime victim is for reporting a teenaged criminal, even if the criminal’s life is then “ruined” because they have to experience consequences. They could have avoided those consequences by not committing the crime in the first place, and it’s wrong to blame the victim for reporting them.

    4. FormerFirstTimer*

      If he loses his job, please don’t feel guilty! You did not cause the situation, he did. If he loses his job its because HE was a creeper and didn’t follow basic, adult transactional “rules”.

      1. Muriel Heslop*

        Yes to this! I get kids who say, “you made me fail my class” and I am quick to point that they failed the class on their own despite my desire to help them. This is all on the security guard, OP! You did the right thing, absolutely!

      2. BadWolf*

        And there’s a moderate chance that your report was the “last straw” in a series of reports.

        And/or when they told him, “Hey, don’t follow women and tell them they’re pretty (and others are ugly)” who knows how he responded. If he really was “just awkward”, he’d probably be embarrassed and apologize. If he’s a creepy jerk, he probably dug his own hole to get fired.

        1. Jellyfish*

          Yes, this!
          I was once involved in a kinda similar case where several people put in complaints about one worker. None of the individual complaints merited firing him, but together, they painted a very worrisome picture. When management confronted the person, he reacted really badly. That reaction got him fired.

          Each of the complainers felt bad though, as if they single-handedly ended someone’s career. Nope – the complaints were valid, the worker was given the chance to make things right, and instead he lost himself the job.

        2. CL Cox*

          This! And if it was a case of just being awkward, he probably got moved to a different location, not fired outright.

      3. Anongineer*

        There’s a bit of guilt, but it’s followed by a swift mental reminder that his actions caused this, not mine!

        1. Kat in VA*

          It’s this attitude of “don’t make waves” or “don’t make things hard on other people” or “just suck it up and deal, he probably was just meaning *this* or *that* and you’re going overboard” that allows creepers and, yes, actual predators to keep on creeping and predating.

          The onus is so often on the victim to keep sweet, put up with it, and just tolerate the behavior because ohhh, the fallout is soooo bad, they could lose their job, people will look askance at them, blah blah blah.

          Well, if Mr. Creeper/Predator was concerned about their job/standing/social/status/whatever, maybe they’d do better to look at their own behavior and not rely on the social graces of others to let them keep doing their bad behavior?

          What does it say about their enablers that they’d rather allow a dude to act like a total jackwagon than protect a victim who’s doing nothing wrong other than, you know, just existing out in the world on the day-to-day?

          Even if Mr. Creepy isn’t concerned about how his behavior might affect his livelihood, all those other “concerned” enablers out there who’d rather put the stress on the victim than the aggressor underscore how common it is that women (usually) are expected to just deal with bad behavior rather than speaking up and putting a stop to it.

          (incoherent rant, the Red Bull hasn’t kicked in yet)

    5. nonprofit director*

      Wow, you didn’t cause the man to lose his job, his own behavior did. And it’s entirely possible he was just reassigned and didn’t lose his job. You did the right thing, please don’t feel bad for reporting this creepy and inappropriate behavior.

    6. londonedit*

      Yeah, if he’s lost/ends up losing his job, that’s not your fault. He behaved in a creepy and unprofessional manner and that’s what’ll make someone lose their job, not the fact that someone else has stood up for themselves and reported it.

    7. Librarian of SHIELD*

      I’m glad that your HR and the building management are taking this as seriously as it deserves!

      Good on you for pushing back when your friends and your coworker got weird about it. You’re not the person who did the wrong thing, and it’s sucky for people to make it sound like this guy was just a hapless dude with a crush who couldn’t help being inappropriate about it.

      You did good, and your workplace did good, and I’m happy about all of it.

    8. Bernice Clifton*

      Whatever consequences he faced came from HIS employer. That means they also believed his actions were out of line.

      1. TootsNYC*

        That also means the security company is prioritizing their business-and THEY ARE ALLOWED TO.

        For anyone to think that you should bear any responsibility for his firing is for them to think the security company isn’t allowed to look out for their own best interests. Those people are denying the security company its agency in this regard.

        Especially a security company, LOL! The assignment is to keep the area safe, and to make people feel safe. This guy screwed that up for them, and THEY get to decide whether he continues to work for them. He has damaged their business; firing him would be completely reasonable.

        The security company is entitled to the info that Anongineer had for them, and they are entitled to act on that information in their own best interests.

        1. blackcat*

          Right. It’s also entirely possible that this wasn’t a first complaint. He may have been warned about this behavior before.

    9. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      If he was fired, he lost his own GD job, nobody else did that for him. They train people in that position how to behave and he was being creepy.

      But he probably got his shift changed or relocated most likely, usually one complaint isn’t going to get them fired! If he was fired he had a track record.

      I’m so glad they’re taking good care of you and reacting properly to your unsettling scary situation.

    10. Squirrel!*

      I had told some friends over the weekend, and they ALL started with “oh, he likes you and just doesn’t know how to express it”

      Somewhat off-topic but, I HATE THIS SO MUCH! Why is it acceptable that a person can creep out / harm / whatever another person because they supposedly don’t know how to behave? Why isn’t the onus on that person to learn how to behave better? Why does the person who is experiencing the bad behavior carry the burden of having to deal with it, but only in a very specific nice way that doesn’t hurt anyone’s feelings? I hate the performative aspect of social etiquette that seems to put everything on the aggrieved party, rather than the antagonist.

      It isn’t just dating either, it can be any sort of negative social interaction, where the person who is on the receiving end of the questionable / bad behavior must deal with it, rather than requiring the perpetrator to stop doing The Thing. I hate it so much, and I don’t know where that expectation came from. It isn’t something that we explicitly teach (in American culture/society), as far as I can tell, but we sure as heck implicitly require it.

      1. hbc*

        My main problem with people bringing this up is: so? Like, it’s pretty clear that he thinks Anongineer is pretty because that’s what he said. Thanks for stating the obvious, friends, but how and why is this supposed to change what she does?

        It’s the very rare stalker/creep who is clutching a brandy while stroking a Persian cat and saying, “I know what will make her uncomfortable, mwahaha!” They’re acting creepy because they either can’t see that they’re causing discomfort, or they value their feelings over the discomfort they’re causing. I find neither situation reassuring.

      2. Viette*

        Especially because this isn’t a hormonal teenager, this is a grown adult employed person. “Oh, he likes you and just doesn’t know how to express it”? Well, he apparently doesn’t know a lot of things, because even if he *does* have a crush on you, as a grown adult employed security guard he should know that generally speaking it isn’t appropriate to hit on building patrons at all, much less in a creepy way.

        OP’s friends encouraging them to take it as a compliment is so wrong. It’s not automatically less creepy because he likes you. OP doesn’t have to be flattered that a creepy person likes them.

        1. londonedit*

          Yup. That sort of comment suggests that Anongineer’s feelings are less important than the security guard’s, and she should let it go because he obviously ‘just likes her’. Nope, that doesn’t give him a free pass to act like a creep, and it’s not Anongineer’s responsibility to put up with behaviour she doesn’t like or appreciate, and that makes her feel uncomfortable, just because this guy can’t act in a professional manner.

        2. Marika*

          I don’t care if he’s a hormonal teenager – the behaviour isn’t ok, period. I had a teacher who said that about a classmate of mine – he liked me and was bad about it. That was the teacher’s response to all of his bad behaviour … Including the day he swung a hammer at my head!

          Funny, the cops didn’t see it that way!

        3. Kat in VA*

          Agree. Whether he likes her or not is immaterial and the friends are wrong. His behavior is making her extremely uncomfortable to the point of being concerned for her safety.

          So whose feelings are more important here? Who gets to win this battle for her attentions/affections? She’s not required to accept his compliments, reply positively to them (or reply at all), or give him any more warmth than she would give a dead leaf on a park bench.

          But if she complains that he’s making her feel upset, somehow she’s the bad guy and he should be given the benefit of the doubt because “he likes you” and “he’s just trying to XYZ” or whatever. So what?

          No. This has to stop. Women owe men nothing, whether they took the time to stretch or come out of their shells or master their social awkwardness demons to let us know they find us ornamental, or amusing, or intelligent, or beautiful, or anything else. We owe them the bare minimum of courtesy we would extend to any stranger on the street…and if they’re really obnoxious, not even that.

          I’m so tired of being told I have to contort my mind into 30 kinds of mental gymnastics to discern the true nature of why this dude does this, that, or the other – if I don’t like it, I’m not required to hand him all the grace of the Virgin Mother Mary just because he opted to extend himself in my direction.

          This crap starts in grade school, where a little boy pulls hair or pokes or pinches and the little girl is told, “Oh, he only does that because he likes you” – and by extension, just tolerate it (but nicely!) since he likes you and you should be flattered and his need to interact trumps your need to be left alone.

          This one hits close to home because my 11 year old is being hassled (benignly) by a boy on the bus who, from the sounds of it, does “like” her and is awkward about it, as most 5th graders are.

          However, I did not tell her she has to suffer his attentions politely just because HE likes her and HIS feelings are paramount to hers.

          I told her that if he touches you and you don’t want him to, tell him DON’T TOUCH ME. If he says weird things to you and you don’t want to talk to him, tell him STOP TALKING TO ME. His desire to engage with her due to “liking her” does not override her bodily autonomy and agency. I think the sooner we teach all little girls this lesson, the sooner all little boys will turn into grown men who do not think the entire other half of the population is there for their pleasure.

          Signed, a woman who’s been dealing with this crap her entire life and is glad to finally be almost 50 and invisible…but now has three young daughters who need to be taught that their lives are not to be lived at men’s discretion.

          I feel the need to add a postscript that I am not a man-hater; I’m rather fond of men as a whole and especially fond of my husband and my son and my dad and my brother and my male friends, etcetera. This post happened to spark off the disgust and weariness I feel when I see this man>woman scenario play out time and again, on AAM, Captain Awkward, at work, in my friend group, in the stories my daughters tell…and some days, I just get sick of it. Today was one of those days.

      3. TootsNYC*

        That expectation comes from this:

        The creepy/inappropriate/rude person isn’t the one in front of us, so we can’t “problem solve” through them.

        We also don’t believe that they’d pay a damned bit of attention to what we say.
        So we address the one person who IS in the room and you MIGHT listen to what we say.

        It’s really wrong.

      4. Applications FTL*

        I got this type of response from HR after reporting someone who was making me scared to leave the building at the end of the day because I was worried he’d follow me to my car (he waited for me near the parking lot). He was making super creepy comments, would keep trying to draw me into conversations after I told him I needed to go, kept asking for hugs, and grabbed my arm at one point. They said he just thought I was pretty and he must have liked me. Then they talked to the legal team and told me it was sexual harassment.

        So I guess harassment is only a problem if you can get in legal trouble for it.

      5. stitchinthyme*

        One thing that I haven’t seen mentioned yet is how much gender matters here. It’s specifically women who are socialized to be nice and polite in the face of creepy/unwanted behavior from men. Some of the reason for this is practical: men have been known to become violent when they’re rejected, and so women have learned to do their best to soften the rejection for their own safety, because there’s no way to know whether a stranger is likely to attempt to lash out. Men are still nearly always in positions of power over women, if only because they’re physically bigger and stronger.

      7. Not So NewReader*

        “oh, he likes you and just doesn’t know how to express it”

        What, is he in first grade? That is how we deal with little kids not adults. grrr.

        If the guy actually liked you, he would apologize profusely, realize he totally blew it and just leave you alone. FOREVER. The reason why would be that he thought enough of you to put you first and himself last.

        No, creeper likes himself the best and is only concerned for what he thinks.

      8. Mina, The Company Prom Queen*

        I agree. A while back, there was a guy in my circle of friends who was interested in me. It was very clear that I had no interest in him but he was still very persistent. He would email me all the time and I was expected to reply right away. At parties, he would expect me to spend time with him and when I didn’t he’d complain about it to whoever would listen and would then watch And keep track of me throughout the evening. He would act like a jealous boyfriend if I talked to other guys. This happened at several parties and gatherings. He would also insult me for not being interested in him, telling me I was stuck up, yada, yada, yada. Really creepy. It weirded me out so I talked to a mutual friend about it. The friend actually suggested that I apologize to the creep to smooth things over. WTF?? It wasn’t on me to smooth anything over. I owed him nothing. This guy was a creep and that was on him, not me. A true gentleman will back off and move on when a woman doesn’t like him back. So I agree that people on the receiving end of creepiness or any other bad behavior are not to just take it and make sure everyone else is comfortable with it.

    11. chronicallyIllin*

      I did not see the post last week but I am so happy you reported it! That’s so creepy and upsetting! Honestly, the worst part for me is the calling other women ugly and saying it bummed him out– that’s a really weird reaction to seeing people you think of as ugly, and speaks to some weird entitlement which is…. concerning. To say the least. It raises my personal risk assessment quite a bit without even the other stuff, which is also definitely bad enough to justify reporting.

      Can you ask if he still works there? Or to be notified if he stops working there– regardless of circumstances surrounding that?

      1. Just Another Manic Millie*

        They’re in the fifth grade. OP should make some friends that are closer to her age. But not that co-worker! He’s in the fifth grade, too.

      2. Anongineer*

        They’re good for the most part! I think it’s still part of the kindergarten “oh, Bobby teases you so he must like you” thought process that we’re all taught. Don’t worry – I definitely corrected them about how this was such an inappropriate thing to do.

    13. TootsNYC*

      when I was a total rookie, I was friendly to a security guard at the office once when I was working late (no one else there).
      So he came to the door of my office and suggested that we should have sex. I said I wasn’t interested, and he persisted. I finally said I had a boyfriend, and he said, “he doesn’t have to know.”

      I should have left the office, but I was kind of dumb, so I locked my door and went to the photocopier the longer way to avoid him.

      Months later I was telling some of my peers about this, and the other rookie, a guy who was the assistant to the facilities manager said, quite insistently, “You should have told us. We’d have made sure he never came back. You should feel safe. That was completely not right.”

      You were absolutely right to report this. I’m glad your HR and the security company took it seriously. They should. (The security company especially would be blithering idiots if they didn’t.)

      1. TootsNYC*

        he was actually a little bit mad that I hadn’t reported it, because that meant this guy with totally inappropriate boundaries was around for a while. His boss would have wanted to know–actively WANTED to know, not just been willing to react properly once she found out.

    14. I'm just here for the cats*

      I hate when people say “oh he just Likes you”. That is such a boys-will-be-boys mentality. Yes he may be awkward for whatever reason but he needs to be told that it is inappropriate. especially since he is a security guard. There is a level of trust and authority in that position and he should not be making you feel uncomfortable.

      1. All Hail Queen Sally*

        When I was in the 5th grade (late 1960’s), a boy in my class would come over to me and punch me in the arm, really hard when we would line up to go to recess. I would yell OWW!!–it hurt and left major bruises! I couldn’t complain to the teacher, because that would make me a tattle-tale, so I complained to my mother, who refused to do or say anything. She acted like she was thrilled that I was getting this attention. WTF, mom!

        1. All Hail Queen Sally*

          I meant to say my mother actually used the phrase, “oh that means he likes you!” which is why she was happy he was assauting me.

          1. tangerineRose*

            That kid was a jerk. I wish the teacher had interfered. 5th grade is more than old enough to know not to punch people.

        2. Who Plays Backgammon?*

          Reminds me of the little b—–d who deliberately threw a playground ball (about the size of a basketball) into my face from just a few feet away. It hurt! AND I was wearing my glasses. I told the teacher, who scoffed, “Ohhh! Your face is still there!” The kid’s dad was some kind of honcho at a major employer, and I’ve wondered if the teacher’s husband worked under him or if they knew him socially so she was protecting the kid.

      2. Mina, The Company Prom Queen*

        I implore everyone who has young daughters to please not say “oh it’s because he likes you” when she comes home from school and says a boy was mean to her.

        1. Kat in VA*

          Mine made this distinction by herself about a boy who’s bugging her – benignly, but still bugging her – on the school bus.

          When she said, “I guess that means he likes me”, my response was, “That doesn’t mean you have to put up with it. If he’s bothering you, let him know he’s bothering you and tell him to knock it off.”

          I’m not a fan of telling girls to suck it up and put up with annoying behavior so as not to offend the tender feels of the boys who are annoying them. That’s how social graces work, and that’s how you learn – if you think that showing affection to someone by punching them in the buttocks is cute, you’ll learn quite quickly that most people do not appreciate that form of affection at all, and hopefully correct your behavior.

    15. Buffy*

      Echoing the comments by others that you DID NOT cause this man to lose his job if he did lose it. One thing that creepers rely on is that their victims will be more concerned about not being nice than they will about being creeped on. His bad behavior is his choice and the consequences are his to deal with. The only thing you need to do is to not feel guilty if he did lose his job. Overall, this is something that women need to stop doing. Stop worrying about the creepers feeling the consequences of their choices. Stop feeling guilty for standing up for yourself. Don’t worry about being labels as ‘not nice’. Perpetrators will weaponize that and you will end up dead.

    16. This Old House*

      I had a security guard like that was I was a student worker at one point. He dealt with the public all the time, so I don’t know how there weren’t complaints, but everyone else I worked with seemed to LOVE him. I don’t know if they were just flattered that he did things like propose marriage to 20-year-olds he’d never seen before or if he didn’t do that stuff to everyone, but he made me SO uncomfortable. But I never wanted to be the person who “got” everyone’s favorite guard fired, and other than a few comments, most of it was just his attitude, staring into my eyes for too long while I went through security, etc. I didn’t even know how to bring it up, so instead I just ate lunch at my desk instead of outside most days to minimize the number of times I had to walk past him.

      I’m so glad you reported your creepy security guy, because I’ve always regretted not doing anything about mine.

    17. Fikly*

      Wow, at the guy walking you to your car – if creepy guy lost his job, it was his behavior that was the cause. If he never acted that way, you would have nothing to report.

  6. Manon*

    What should a salary negotiation look like if you had to give salary requirements with an application?

    For instance, if I said I was seeking a salary from $40-50,000 and I’m offered $48-50K, I’m guessing it would be poor form to negotiate more. But if I’m offered $42-44K, would it be appropriate to try to negotiate to the higher end of the range?

    1. J*

      Sure, that’s appropriate. When you give a range you’re leaving room for things like benefits. I accepted my last job at a lower salary under the stipulation that I got an extra week paid time off.

    2. Not a Real Giraffe*

      This is the problem with having to name a salary range before you know the full details of the role. I think in both situations, it’s absolutely fair game for you to negotiate. “After learning more about the role and the responsibilities, I am hoping for a salary closer to X.”

      1. Combinatorialist*

        I think if it is near the high end of the range, you can negotiate on benefits. And then if you don’t get what you want on benefits, negotiate the salary on to make up for that. But I think just negotiating the salary when they gave you the high end is going to come off as bad faith

        1. Not a Real Giraffe*

          I think that so long as you are polite and professional about it, and not asking for something wildly outside your original range, it’s completely fair to negotiate. Most candidates have no idea the full scope of a job, so your salary “requirements” are really just your best guess at what is appropriate. I don’t think it’s bad faith to ask for what your work is actually worth.

          If the offer comes in on the higher end, and you’re legitimately happy with it, you aren’t required to negotiate. But I think most employers make an offer with the assumption that you will probably counter, and I think it’s often worthwhile to ask for a little more. If they say no, and you can still accept the original offer.

      2. Mbarr*

        This. I did the exact same thing – applied, asking for $80K, then when I learned about the job, I realized I undershot and asked for $95k (with the expectation they’d bargain me down $5k). I ended up getting $90k.

        I still wonder if I should have asked for more though – I have no idea what my role is worth because I have the title of one job, but do the work of another… It was still a $20k increase from my previous job though!

      3. CheeryO*

        You have no idea how validating this is for me! I applied for a job right out of grad school and provided a salary range, then had an HR phone interview where the interviewer actually suggested bumping the upper end up my range up and said that she would change my paperwork. After my in-person interview, I was offered the top end of my original range and was absolutely dragged when I tried to negotiate. It still bothers me, years later!

    3. Anonymous Educator*

      I think when you give your expectations, it’s okay to say “Based on what I know about the role so far…”

      But even if you didn’t say that, it’s okay to say “Based on what I now know about the role…”

      1. HM MM*

        This! I’m not someone who will negotiate just for the sake of negotiating, however If I’m forced to give a salary first I’ve trained myself to hedge so that I don’t feel backed into a corner later on. “Based on what I understand so far, I would be hoping for $x-$y, but of course that would depend on the benefits, specifics of the role, etc”. I also always give a range, plus I don’t feel bad about giving a pretty broad range and aiming a bit high. Like if I’m expecting 80-90k, but might be willing to take something as low as 75 or 78, I’ll say 80-110.

      2. CL Cox*

        And if they ask you before you’ve heard any details, you can (and should) say something like, “it depends on the specifics of the position, of course, but I would think $X-Y is reasonable. Because OF COURSE it’s reasonable to wait until you know what your duties are going to be before you decide what a reasonable salary is for that work.

    4. Kuddel Daddeldu*

      You can always negotiate… unless you find yourself in the situation I encountered early in my career. I named my range during the interview; the day after the hiring manager called and offered me the job at a significantly higher salary. Benefits in Germany are pretty standard at entry level to mid-range jobs (and excellent compared to US norms), so there was really nothing to negotiate. I took the offer on the spot and stayed with them for over 6 years and two promotions.

  7. stitchinthyme*

    So those of you who have a visible sign of a disability and have done job interviews, do you mention the elephant in the room to the interviewer, or do you just ignore it? I’ve had a cochlear implant for only about 6 months, so I haven’t had to deal with this, and since I don’t have thick hair I can’t hide the processor. I’m already a little nervous about the prospect of interviewing — I do reasonably well as long as there’s not too much background noise, but I do still sometimes have to ask people to repeat stuff — so I’m just wondering if having such a visible sign of a disability will hurt my chances if I should decide to start job searching. (My hearing does not impact my ability to do my job, however. You don’t really need to hear well to write code.)

    1. Alan*

      I would mention it matter of factly. If they’re in any way judgmental or weird about it then consider it a good way of screening for who would be a nd employer
      And good luck with your job search!

    2. Chronic Overthinker*

      I also have a hearing impairment. Don’t mention it unless you absolutely need to. Focus on the interview questions and your qualifications. After you’ve been hired, you can go over the specifics on how to meet your needs based on your disability. I speak from experience and it only helps to mention it if you are struggling to hear in the interview itself.

      1. BK*

        Worked with someone for a number of years who wore large hearing aids. When talking with HR about accommodations for the phone equipment, the interviewer said she hadn’t even noticed them. Sometimes, it’s more at the forefront of your mind than it is theirs.

        1. stitchinthyme*

          So far, I’ve been lucky enough not to need many accommodations. I had to ask my coworkers to contact me by email or online chat instead of talking to me for a few weeks last summer because I’d just had the implant surgery but it was not activated yet, and meanwhile I suffered another sudden hearing loss in the non-implanted ear, leaving me about a half-step above totally deaf. And then I had to use an external microphone in meetings for the first month or two after I got my CI, but I just put it in the middle of the conference table with a quick explanation of what it was and no one batted an eye. But as my comprehension with the CI got better, I stopped needing to do that. Hopefully I won’t need anything special at my next job, although I will have to pay close attention to the noise level of the work environment, as too much noise can be a problem for me.

    3. BlindChina*

      I mention the elephant, only if I need them to accommodate it up front. So yes, in your case I would mention it because you may have to ask them to repeat them selves. Just say it very matter of factually just as you worded it her ” I do well as long as there’s not a lot of background noise, but I do still sometimes have to ask people to repeat stuff. So if I ask you to repeat a question, that is why. My hearing does not impact my ability to do my job, however. You don’t really need to hear well to write code.” Keep it mater of fact, not apologetic. After saying this immediately change the subject back to the job. Good luck job hunting!

    4. Superstylin*

      I don’t think you need to draw attention to any sign of visible disability. If you have issues interviewing where there’s a lot of background noise, and for some reason the interviewer decides to interview you in a Starbucks, then by all means ask to interview somewhere else. But otherwise, I don’t believe there’s any reason to mention any type of disability until you’re at the offer stage and only then if you need some sort of accommodation.

    5. CupcakeCounter*

      I think it depends…if you happen to notice them looking/staring at it a quick “I see you noticed my processor – I got cochlear implants a few months ago and they have been amazing! Still fine tuning them so in large, crowded rooms I might need you to repeat a question but I’ve discovered that in conference rooms and cubicles they work almost perfectly.”
      Otherwise, there is probably no need to bring it up until after you have the offer (or even later if you don’t need any accommodations).

    6. hbc*

      I would only bring it up if it becomes relevant, and then in a way similar to the way someone with a non-disability-level impairment would mention it. For example, my husband has a hard time picking out voices in a noisy, talkative room (badly timed ear infections as a youngster), so he’ll just say, “Sorry, can you repeat that? It’s a little hard for me with this level of background noise.”

      That’s not to say that no one will discriminate, but naming what the interviewer needs to do for you versus the disability that explains why you need it will make it easier for them to keep moving. Especially if they get nervous because they know they’re not really supposed to be talking about disabilities in interviews.

    7. Tau*

      I have a stutter that is currently impossible to miss. I have a script, which goes roughly like this:

      “As you have probably noticed, I have a speech disorder. It’s usually pretty mild but flares up sometimes. Please let me know if you have any trouble understanding me, I’m happy to repeat myself.”

      Mainly, what I’m trying to do with it is direct people in the way I want them to go. I am signalling:
      – that this is not a big deal, even if it seems like one right now
      – that I’ve got this, I am in control, I know what I’m doing
      – that I’m aware of the problems it can cause and able to compensate for them
      – that this is a topic I am willing to discuss
      – last but not least, I’m telling them how to react and how I expect them to handle it

      This script works wonders, I swear. Reactions to it are generally incredibly positive! My suspicion is that most people are not familiar with speech disorders and thrown when they encounter one, so they’re grateful for me providing guidance and happy to follow it. The flip side of this is that people can come to really weird conclusions regarding appropriate behaviour if left to their own devices, so these days I try to avoid that.

      So yeah! Not 100% sure if the disabilities translate, but from my experience I can only recommend being open about it, and specifically recommend putting it out there in some sort of problem-solution context instead of just “I have this disability. That is all.”

      Oh yeah, for the depressing side of this advice:

      so I’m just wondering if having such a visible sign of a disability will hurt my chances if I should decide to start job searching

      This is honestly something I try not to think about. You know why? Because there is nothing I can do to *not* show visible signs of a disability, and because having seen some of the statistics I think it would be an actual miracle if I was never discriminated against because of it. There’s nothing I can change about that, and thinking about it just gets me either depressed or angry, so I generally try to ignore the possibility completely.

    8. Amethyst*

      It depends, for me, on the interviewer. If I’m getting a great vibe from them, I’ll mention it in passing (“I’ve got a _moderate/severe/profound_ hearing loss so I wear hearing aids & sometimes I might take a minute to work out a word in relation to a sentence’s context/whatever your flavor here.”) if it’s related to a question. Sometimes I’ll use it as a “tell me something about you” answer (other times I use my hobbies for extract-making &/or passion for singing as examples). Sometimes I won’t, either because there’s no need for me to do so, or the vibe says “zip it.” There’s only been one instance where the interviewer knew of my disability & that was because I was interviewing for a position at my own audiologists’ office.

      Keep it light & breezy & move on.

      Mostly people just confuse my earmolds for “really cool piercings; where’d you get that done?” :)

    9. To Lurk, perchance to Post*

      Congrats on your CI! I’m bilaterally deaf but can only get one CI, which I have on my right side. I’ve been implanted for almost 5 years.

      When I interviewed for this company (7.5 years ago) I had a Baha (bone anchored hearing aid) and I did leave my hair down to hide it. I believe the stigma against disabilities (especially hearing loss) would play a role in a hiring decision for me. I’m now an Ops Manager with the same company, in the same department. I have ADA accommodations in place as needed.

      My CI is pretty much common knowledge now. And I wear a bright white CI with multi colored microphones and battery covers… so at this point I’m doing the opposite of hiding it. LOL But I completely understand your desire not to have it become a focus of your interview.

      I would not volunteer. And honestly, they should NOT bring it up. Imagine if you came in using a wheelchair. Would they say, “Hey now!! What’s wrong with those legs you got??” I hope not!

      I recently applied for a promotion that I needed to interview for. When I got to the executive director level interviewer, literally his first question was about my deafness and CART services and his second was about my children. Oh vey. HR NIGHTMARE.

      I’m pretty comfortable with my deafness and CI use and it’s out in the open where I work. But if (when?) I apply and interview for other jobs, I will not volunteer info about my hearing loss unless I needed an accommodation, like CART services. I would only disclose once I had accepted the job.

      I hope things are going well with your CI journey and let me know if you have any questions or need help!

      1. stitchinthyme*

        Heh, I don’t hide mine either – I decorate it with skins and have recently acquired some cute charms (though I wouldn’t wear those to an interview). I figure that anyplace that wouldn’t hire me because I have a CI is probably not someplace I want to work anyway. I just wondered if it was better to just get it out there at the start of an interview. As my understanding gets better, it’s becoming less likely that I’ll have too much trouble during one-on-one conversations.

    10. Jemima Bond*

      If you need/want to mention it, I’d vouch it in terms of, here is a reference to an issue you’re obviously concerned about as a fair and caring employer; that being potential need for adjustments for candidates/employees with disabilities etc. So something like; you may have noticed I wear a hearing aid implant [or whatever you find best to call it] – this means I hear very well now and don’t need any adjustments! Or indeed, this means I hear pretty well but it helps if you face me and don’t cover your mouth when speaking, or whatever.
      Application forms for my dept (and I think this is pretty common) ask of candidates will need any adjustments etc as much for the application process as for the ongoing job if you get it; if I interview someone I’m supposed to spot if they have said they have mobility issues so I know to make sure they are brought via the lift not the stairs, or that they say dyslexia so I know they are entitled to extra time for a written assessment. Etc.
      I’d think of pointing out the implant as just helping them with that process.

    11. Kat in VA*

      I have a rare speech disorder that I refer to as an impediment (sometimes “disorder” can sound a little precious, but an impediment is understood to be something you’re born with, or can’t do anything about – semantics, I know).

      It usually comes up on the phone screen, so I tend to say something like, “I have a speech impediment that can make it difficult to understand me at times. Please feel free to ask me to repeat myself if you don’t understand what I said.” Usually people will do the OH NO I UNDERSTAND YOU JUST FINE and then…ask me to repeat myself several times, which is fine.

    12. Anon for this one*

      I don’t have a visible sign of a disability myself, but I do work with someone who is a highly respected senior/lead ‘llama groomer’ who has… I’m not sure if it’s the same thing you are talking about, but they have a white ‘unit’ on the side of their head (I don’t know how it’s attached and I don’t like to ask!) which is about 3/4 of an inch by 2 inches or so. Sounds like it could be the same/similar thing… In my place, and every other place I’ve worked, someone using a device like this would be treated normally by pretty much everyone they come across (I can’t account for the occasional person with unfounded prejudice) at the interview stage, and during their work at the company.

      In my case the co-worker with hearing problems does speak a little ‘differently’ than ‘normal’ (whatever that is!) which we have to listen out for and actively think about what they are saying, but it is perfectly understandable once you actually listen (something I think we ought to exercise with our non-hearing-impaired colleagues as well… most of us are just hearing “blah blah” and waiting for our turn to talk, and I acknowledge myself as one of the culprits of that).

      I don’t think your device in itself will hurt your chance of interviewing in most reasonable places but if you still feel uncomfortable you could mention it matter-of-factly like “oh, btw I have hearing problems and that’s why I’m wearing this! Just so you know” etc.

      Only anon because I write here and read here including on my work pc!

  8. Queen of Sardines*

    TL;DR: Should I move into the conference room in my (very small) business in order to give staff more space?

    I own and run a small business with 6 employees. We’re currently in a 1500 square foot office suite. There is only one private office (mine), the remaining staff work out of a communal bullpen type area. Yes, the dreaded open concept office. There is also a small break room, a small storage room, and a decent sized conference room.

    Currently I need to hire 2 additional staff members. However, we’re not quite in a financial position to move to a significantly larger space. I’ve tried to come up with the best possible rearrangement of furniture to fit 2 more people, but pretty much everyone hates the proposed arrangement. To solve this, I am now considering working out of the conference room myself, turning my office over to 2 staffers. This would leave everyone else the same or better off than they currently are. However, my own working environment would become much trickier, including, for example, having to clear out of the conference room whenever anyone needs to use it. Some work from home is possible, but not to the extent that it would allow an entire desk to be freed up.

    My question is how this sort of move would be viewed. Would it be seen as being a team player or would it be seen as inappropriate? I don’t want to make it awkward for anyone—for example, people might have fewer meetings because they feel they can’t ask me to leave the conference room. But I also don’t want to make my staff’s working conditions harder than they need to be. Any advice?

    1. Legally a Vacuum*

      How often is the conference room actually used? If it would be a daily disruption to your work, then I don’t think that’s a real solution.

      1. Queen of Sardines*

        The conference room is used at least daily, generally more like 2 to 3 times a day. It would obviously be a significant disruption. But part of me is saying, “Well, everyone has to make sacrifices. So if this is the new normal, then so be it.” Obviously, still unsure about this.

        1. Leslie Knope*

          I share an office with 2 other people. Because we are on the phone often, we had cubicles put in the space that have fabric walls. It helps cut down on the sound transference, but we can still talk over/around the wall to each other when we need to collaborate. We had to really Frankenstein the cubicles to get them to fit into the space, but we all ended up with ample workspace and don’t feel too cramped. Sometimes we all listen to the same music, sometimes all of us have headphones on (I use my earbuds when I’m on the phone anyway).

          Depending on the cubicle system you purchase, you’d be surprised at how efficiently you can use the space without sacrificing too much privacy or causing too much interruption for the people who have to share.

          Does your conference area need to be private? If you can fit 3 people into one of the other rooms maybe you could create a new conference area in the open space with some sort of divider from the main working area.

    2. I edit everything*

      Have you asked your employees for ideas/thoughts? Maybe one of them has a gift for spatial arrangement.

      1. Queen of Sardines*

        I have. The problem here is that they invariably run afoul of dynamics that they are not aware of. For example, they put Jane next to Sally who can’t stand each other. Or they put Fergus right under the AC vent when he is the one always complaining of cold, etc. They mean well, but they just don’t know all the variables at play.

        1. Adric*

          Even if if they don’t get the exact seating plan, if they come up with a workable desk arrangement that’s at least a start. You can always swap a couple people around on the seating plan if all the desks fit.

          How practical would it be to just axe the breakroom and turn it into office space?

          1. I'm just here for the cats*

            Or Maybe turn the conference room into a break room and the break room into office space? We have a conference/break room at my office. although it isn’t ideal it could work until they can move.

            1. valentine*

              Never give up or share your office. You will always need space to talk to staff and to have confidential stuff.

              put Jane next to Sally who can’t stand each other.
              They need to behave professionally enough that no one knows they ever had beef. I hope you’ll tackle this.

              Give them dividers. What about a coworking space?

              Can you adjust schedules so people have different days off? Maybe a weekend rotation or early/afternoon shifts?

    3. Selmarie*

      It depends on how and how often the conference room gets used. A schedule for the conference room would be helpful here, if you do what you propose. That way, claims to the conference room can be made without too much face-to-face displacing of the boss. (I don’t know whether you’d need to put your working times in the calendar; again, it depends.

      And is there a way you can have a “rolling desk” that can be moved elsewhere when the room is needed for conferences? That way, you wouldn’t need to interrupt a meeting to get your stuff. Less ideal I think would be somehow locking it up in a cabinet or drawer when there is a conference, but you could run into needing things while the room is in use for a meeting. Although a rolling desk might also need a locked portion, since you’re the boss.

      1. Queen of Sardines*

        We currently do use an online scheduler. And I would insist that that be used religiously. (i.e., no more on-the-fly dropping into the conference room for a quick pow-wow.) I do like the idea of a rolling desk though. Hadn’t considered that.

        1. Red Fraggle*

          Teachers frequently end up using rolling desks for a variety of reasons, and as long as it has some locking drawers the setup can work pretty well.

        2. Lily in NYC*

          Honestly, it doesn’t sound like there’s an ideal solution. My opinion is that you share your own office, or shove a few people in there and move out into the communal space yourself. We have a completely open floorplan and not even our CEO has his own office. We all share the pain. I think the conference room needs to remain as one (or maybe use your smaller office as the conference room and convert the conf. room into a work area).

    4. WellRed*

      I don’t think taking over the conference room is the way to go. What is it about the rearrangements they don’t like? Can you offer everyone some WFH? Or different work times?

    5. Jimming*

      Can you keep your office and move the 2 new staff into the conference room? You do want to keep a place where people can meet privately with you 1:1.

    6. Nesprin*

      You, the owner/manager who needs the ability to have private conversations and to be able to focus on work seem like the least able to move into the conference room. Is work from home/remote wework type extra desking possible?

      1. Queen of Sardines*

        So a lot of people are asking about WFH. Some amount is certainly possible, but unfortunately not to the point where it would free up an entire station. We work in a intensively hand-off oriented business. So the Rogers file has to go from Jane to Fergus by 10. Then Fergus has to negotiate with Sally as to when she can take it over that afternoon. Then when Sally is done it has to go back to Jane for her approval by 4 so that Jane can get it to my desk for my signature by 4:30 and out to the client before 5. That’s not every single day, but it’s often enough (and unpredictable enough) that someone working out of the office could significantly slow down a key hand-off.

        But having said that, I’m glad people are bringing that up because maybe there are at least parts of the business where that would be feasible. I really appreciate prodding my thinking about this!

        1. Senor Montoya*

          Are there actual pieces of paper or equipment that have to be handed off? Or could you be using some sort of shared documents/drive? Do people have to negotiate face to face about when they have to get to/hand off materials?

          If people are WFH, it’s reasonable to expect them to be reachable within a short period of time — that’s what we have to do. You post your schedule (everyone can see everyone else’s work calendar) and are not expected to be at your “desk” and quickly available during lunch break, phone meetings, whatever would = you would not be available if you were in the office.

          Otherwise, we’re expected to respond to email, phone, and gchat within 30 minutes. (We rarely need to be immediately available — if your business requires faster response, you can of course require it).

          Can you figure out what the expectations and requirements would be for folks WFH? And then put it in writing and make sure everybody knows.

          1. Annony*

            Yeah, it seems like actively using something like slack could have the same result as being there in person so long as people understand the expectation and don’t need to hand off physical items.

        2. RecoveringSWO*

          Since you’re the owner, is your “butt in chair” time more or less important in the office? Perhaps you can work from home through lunch and then finish out the day in the conference room? You can schedule yourself to work/approve docs in the conference room every day from 2-6pm and meetings can happen in there beforehand?

          1. Queen of Sardines*

            This is a really interesting idea. I hadn’t considered the idea of flexing my own schedule to help with the overcrowding. I mean, there are some details that would mean I’d have to arrange it a bit differently, but your overall point is a really intriguing possibility. Thank you!

    8. Ariana Grande's Ponytail*

      It sounds like this is probably not an option, but I’m not 100% certain from your post — is there no way that you could have 2 people WFH each day, and rotate through? Then everyone might have, say, a set of rolling drawers where they can keep their personal things and bring that with them to their desk of the day. Another alternative option for you might be paying for some type of WeWork situation, if that’s possible near you. I don’t have any experience with that, but it would give your folks a dedicated space to report to, at least.

    9. Red Ghost*

      Even if you can’t afford to move to a larger office, would it be possible to rent a small additional office or space in an office somewhere else where you can either put two employees or use yourself?

        2. Mockingjay*

          Or coworking spaces. Cheaper than leasing an entire unit, especially for only one or two employees.

    10. foolofgrace*

      “pretty much everyone hates the proposed arrangement”

      It might have to be that people don’t like the arrangement but they’ll have to live with it. I can see not moving Fergus under the vent, but if Jane and Sally hate each other, they’ll just have to suck it up, it’s not like they have to talk to each other. (Maybe you could add movable partitions.) Often, our work arrangements aren’t the coziest, and many workers just have to deal with it. I wish I had more say about where I sit, but this is the job I have and if I don’t like it, there’s only one alternative — leave. So I sit where the company needs me to sit.

      1. Holy Moley*

        No one has mentioned that the staff not getting the two spots in your office might feel slighted. Would you give it by seniority? Rank? I can see someone getting mad that two new employees get the office while the rest are in the open office area.

        1. Queen of Sardines*

          No, the two new employees to be hired are entry level and no way they would get the semi-private office space. The space would be determined by a combination of rank/seniority and need. So “Jane” would get a spot due to her senior status and “Emily” would be the other because even though she’s roughly equal to a couple of other people, she is the one who more often has to read long documents. I actually think any sort of jealousy would be a fairly minor issue in this case.

    11. Triplestep*

      I design workplaces. Open space is not universally dreaded – it’s often dreaded because designers plan in lots of shared private spaces for focused work or private conversation, and leadership ends up chipping away at it. I can’t think of a single project I’ve done where some of the programmed shared private spaces – or even the ALREADY BUILT shared private spaces – don’t become “owned” by a single person.

      More people translates to more need for shared private spaces (focus room, phone room, collaboration for two or three people) and the scenario you lay out above is taking 100% of your shared private space away. If there’s any way possible to join the open space yourself while adding two more people, I would suggest that. Leave the conference room and make your current office into a small meeting room by changing out the furniture. I know this might seem impossible – you may reject this right away thinking you don’t possibly have the space, but I encourage you to give it some creative thought. Don’t tell your staff you don’t value their need to have some place to leave their desk and go to work in small groups, make a private phone call, take a conference call, etc. by taking away 100% of their shared private space.

      If you really can’t fit everyone including yourself in the open space, consider putting 3 or 4 people in the conference room and make your current office into that small meeting room. Studies clearly show that no matter the size of the conference room, they are most often used for meetings between 2 or 3 people.

      I’m glad you asked this question; it shows you know space is more then just, well … space!

      1. Queen of Sardines*

        Thank you for this really thoughtful response!

        I did not consider the impact on the shared space. I’m glad you brought that up. I also love the idea of a “focus room” or a “phone room”. I can see carving a small one out of our supply cabinet. I mean, you wouldn’t want to be in there all day, but I could definitely see spending half an hour in there to power through some documents.

        You’ve given me lots to think about. Thank you!

        1. Triplestep*

          I’m glad it was helpful! I am forever having people show me articles on Linkedin that somehow “prove” open space is the devil. But if you read beyond the headline, you will typically see that the chief complaint is there’s not enough shared private space. And it’s not for lack of trying on the designer’s part! It’s well-accepted in my industry that the correct ratio of desk seats to “other” seats (collaboration, phone, focus) is 1:1. But most companies won’t plan a private shared seat for every desk seat in the office, because that translates to more square feet, which translates to more expense. And most companies think they are going to save tons of money by going to open space. Well, they’re not. Not if they’re doing it right. Unfortunately, many are OK with doing it wrong. (Stepping off soap box now!)

    12. TootsNYC*

      can you move walls around?

      Is your own office large enough that it could be split in half, and you take one, and put two desks in the other side?

      Can the conference room be partitioned?

      Or if nothing else, can you move four or five people into your office, and create a much smaller office elsewhere in the space?

      Make your office into a much smaller conference room, and move people into cubicles or desks in the conference room, and make yourself a smaller office in a corner of the space?

      I would think moving a door or adding a wall would be the work of two days at most by a general contractor or handyman type person.

      I think you should have a permanent spot. There is serious utility in maintaining some of the architecture of power. It’s not about power; it’s about clarity of authority. You need to maintain yours.

      1. Queen of Sardines*

        Your last paragraph is a little bit what I was getting at with my original question–and why I’m trying to be so careful with the rearrangement. Managing teams is challenging under the best of circumstances. I don’t want to make it harder on myself by looking like a summer intern that ended up there because someone said, “just stick her in the conference room”.

        Everyone is coalescing around some version of “carve out a space for yourself”. So I’m thinking that’s going to be key.

        1. Triplestep*

          I agree that you need space, but I don’t agree that it needs to be different from everyone else’s or enclosed. You are the boss. Everyone knows you’re the boss and that’s not going to change if you sit in open space. When the boss needs the little meeting room, people will defer to her. If the boss needs the conference room, people defer. Even if you sit in the supply closet, no one is going to confuse you with the summer intern!

      2. Triplestep*

        Adding a wall isn’t a big deal. In commercial spaces, adding everything else when you add a wall? Big deal. You’re creating a new room, so think building code, fire code (strobes, smoke/heat detectors) electrical (moving lighting, adding switches) HVAC (ducts above the ceiling, added supply and return). Most clients who simply wanted to add a wall and door changed their minds pretty quickly.

    13. Mad Harry Crewe*

      If the conference room is in use multiple times a day, taking it over is going to make everyone’s lives harder. As other commenters have pointed out, people get unexpected phone calls, or need to have a quick private conversation. It’s not possible to schedule 100% perfectly.

      I second the idea of putting several employees in the conference room and converting your office to a new, smaller, conference room.

      Is the conference room laid out such that you could carve off a chunk and make a smaller office for yourself?

      Could you invest in smaller office furniture? How often do people need to really spread out in paper, versus doing most of their work on the computer? Is the spreading-out something everyone needs to do, or is it more common in certain roles? Would it work to have little folding or rolling surfaces that people could deploy around their desks temporarily?

    14. I'm just here for the cats*

      How large is the conference room? Does it have 2 doors. You could there be a way to section off part of the conference room so that you have your own entrance and the people coming and going won’t disturb you?

    15. Kw10*

      Could you turn the conference room into cubicles or open office space that you would share with a few other employees, and make your old private office into a (smaller) conference room? That way there’s still a private meeting space.

    16. Mr. Shark*

      Can you maybe cut the conference room in half, and use half of it for two senior people for a semi-private shared office, and then use the rest of the conference room as a conference room?
      You said the conference room is decent size, and since you only have 6-8 employees, it sounds like you should have enough room to cut down on the conference room size and still fit people in.
      The other thing is that it does sound like a little too much complaining on the part of your 6 employees. If you’re fitting two more people in, give your employees the option of where they want to sit, and then plunk the two new employees in the least desirable space. It may not be the greatest arrangement, but they’ll live.

  9. Anonymous for This*

    This is just a (very long) rant about firing people.
    My office has two distinct units, I manage one and Fergus manages the other. Fergus (who was hired 6 months ago) has decided to fire one of his secretaries, Jane.
    To be fair, Jane could not do the job, and despite being in the job for 1 ½ years, has never even risen to the minimum requirements, much less been an “average” employee. However, our previous organizational structure had the Jane working for the Fergus’ department, but reporting to Jill, so no disciplinary action could be taken by Fergus, and Jill had consistently refused to do so (the previous unit manager and Jill butted heads constantly, so Jill refused to issue any sort of improvement plan or disciplinary action for Jane, despite the many forms of documentation showing the Jane’s deficiencies, and multiple complaints from people inside and outside the unit about Jane’s deficiencies). So Jane has been led to believe all along that she was doing just fine.
    Fergus was hired in August, and in November, our organizational structure changed such that Jane now reported directly to Fergus. Three weeks ago, Fergus began providing written documentation to Jane outlining the job requirements that she was to accomplish each day, as well as giving “incident reports” anytime Jane made a significant error. To my knowledge, none of the written documentation was ever written as an improvement plan, and Jane was never specifically told either verbally or in writing that her job was in jeopardy. Fergus has shown me most of the documentation and I’ve pointed out that they need to be more specific and it needs to lay out the consequences, but he did not follow my advice.
    Fergus gets permission from HR to fire Jane, and decides that the best way to do this is at 8:00 AM yesterday morning! He wants to ensure that Jane’s co-worker, John (who has been having work problems of his own and sits next to Jane) knows that Fergus is “serious” and will fire you if you don’t improve by making an example of Jane.
    I spoke to Fergus about it for several days, but he adamantly refused to change his mind about when she would be fired. I pointed out that while no one in the office would be surprised that Jane was fired (her work really was that bad), HOW the firing happened would have an impact on morale and how the office viewed Fergus – and it wouldn’t be the way that he thought it would. I also asked him to consider letting it happen next week or allowing Jane to resign on Monday rather than be fired so she would have health insurance for the month, although that was more compassion on my part than anything else – it’s not like she was being fired for stealing or making threats or anything that would warrant being immediately escorted from the premises. (I think in the end, HR did give Jane the choice of resigning on Monday for just that very reason about maintaining health insurance.)
    Unfortunately, in terms of having to walk out with your things, Jane sat in the very worst place in the office – farthest from the door, so she would have to walk past EVERYONE with her items … like Cersei doing the “Walk of Shame” on Game of Thrones. When I couldn’t get Fergus to change his mind, I told him that I couldn’t tell the people in his unit what to do, but I would be telling my people to themselves scarce as soon as HR arrived (think keeping your office door closed or for those who worked in open cubicles working in the file room during that time).

    At the end, for whatever reasons, HR couldn’t come up until the end of the day, so I sent everyone in my unit home at 4:30 and Fergus decided to do so as well (except of course for John – Fergus still wanted John to see the “example”.) But it was an exhausting experience and taught me a lot about how I would want to handle that situation (luckily, I’ve become a fan of this blog so I know I’ve got good resources here).

    1. Oh No She Di'int*

      Sorry you’ve had to go through such an exhausting experience. And I’m also sorry for Jane who’s had to endure what sounds like a dysfunctional situation for a long time.

    2. Librarian of SHIELD*

      Ugh. This sounds so frustrating. Fergus does not come off at all well in this story, and I HIGHLY doubt that this had the effect on John that Fergus thinks it did. If Fergus wants John to improve his performance, he needs to tell him so in unambiguous words. Making himself into the boogeyman who will fire anybody for any reason isn’t going to make his employees want to improve their performance, it’s just going to make them think he’s a jerk who likes to fire people when there’s an audience.

      1. Anonymous for This*

        To be fair to Fergus, he walked into a bad situation, and then when the reorganization happened…inherited the problem. John has a serious attendance issue (this is the FIRST week John has been in the office every work day since BEFORE Fergus was hired 6 – 7 months ago). Some of it was truly legit, some of it was FMLA related, but a lot of it was…I can’t make it in until 10am when we start at 8am or would say he would be late and NEVER SHOW. Jill also supervised John, and I think she actually did make attempts to hold John accountable, but I can’t speak as to what extent.

        Fergus gave a written attendance improvement plan to John last week.

        So anyhoo…we will see what happens with that.

        1. Diahann Carroll*

          Bad situation or not, Fergus is still an ass. Firing someone who ostensibly thought she was doing a good job until he came onboard, and then doing so publicly as some kind of “message” to another employee, is horrible. He needs serious management training.

          1. Patina*

            I disagree. Fergus is the only manager doing his job. You might quibble about the details, but he took decisive action when the rest of the management sat around. Jill should also be fired.

            2. tangerineRose*

              Jane should have been given a real performance improvement plan and notified that she’d lose her job if she didn’t improve her performance. If she didn’t improve her performance, she should have been fired quietly, not with a big audience.

    3. CoffeeLover*

      Yikes Fergus is a bad manager and kind of a rotten human being (at least he behaved like one in this instance). You should treat people with dignity and empathy. He shouldn’t be trying to make an example out of anyone. If he wants to manage John then he should manage him. Not make a show of firing someone and making them do the walk of shame so John “smartens up”. Really gross. And wasn’t it obvious what he was doing? How did he explain why everyone else got to go home but John had to stay? I also wonder if HR showed up late on purpose… in which case good for them but they should tell him outright it’s not cool to fire someone in this way.

      I doubt this is the last time you’ll see bad judgment from Fergus.

      1. Anonymous for This*

        I can’t say this was a one-off when it comes to Fergus’ judgment but I can say it was truly unexpected, given his normal modus operandi in the office and with his direct reports. He’s actually usually very patient.

        Previously, Fergus and I managed only the teapot-designers for our respective units, so even though the secretaries worked for the designers and the managers, they all reported to and were supervised by Jill. All of the teapot-designers have offices, so the only ones who are out in the open are the secretaries. It’s sort of hard to explain our office design, but where Jane and John sit, they would actually only see maybe one or two teapot-designers actually leaving, and those people have alternate work hours so they are scheduled to leave at 4 or 4:15 every day anyway. So unless they specifically got up looking for someone (which doesn’t normally happen at 4:30 because this is a part of the day where their work has them tied to their desks), Jane and John wouldn’t realize that everyone else was gone.

    4. Sunflower Sea Star*

      Oh goodness. Anytime a manager wants to “make an example” out of disciplining someone, that’s bad management. Disciplining someone should never be public or done to manipulate other employees.

    5. Veryanon*

      Ugh. I’m wishing that HR had worked more closely with Fergus on his exit plan for Jane, because that doesn’t sound at all like Jane’s dignity and privacy were preserved. Fergus sounds terrible.

    6. MOAS*

      Yikes, that’s bad. I can understand why Fergus would want to fire her because Jill was not doing a good job of managing. But making someone as an example is..ugh.

      My coworker did this yesterday — there were 2 weak performers, and our boss pushed him to fire one to show the other as an example. He did have many conversations with the fired employee but she didn’t improve; AFAIK he did talk to the other weak performer as well that his performance was not great. It’s just gross that the “fire Jane as an example for John” came from someone really high up. ugh.

    7. Dogs*

      We had something similar last year….someone in a different department but cubicle row next to me was fired at 8AM on a Monday….immediately after they came back from vacation. And in this case, there were no obvious performance issues and no performance plan.

      It certainly sent a message….but not the one anyone wanted! And the effects are still impacting the way people talk to that manager/team this year…

      1. Anonymous for This*

        Firing someone when they come back from vacation is just horrific. I also hate firing someone right before Christmas, but if you have to fire someone (meaning you’ve been given orders to do the firing) I think I would rather fire someone BEFORE Christmas (they might be able to return what they’ve purchased or won’t go overboard on non-returnable things) than AFTER Christmas (by then some of the money they spent is definitely non-refundable and you’re not stuck looking at the people you gave gifts to that you could no longer afford to pay off).

    8. Champagne Cocktail*

      Passive/aggressive as all hell to have John see the firing as an ‘example.’ Fergus is a jerk and a bad manager, and Jill made a bad situation worse. I’m sorry you had to deal with that. I’d be exhausted too!

      The best time to fire someone, in my opinion, is lunchtime on Friday. People will likely be away from their desks anyway.

    9. A Poster Has No Name*

      Ugh, that all sucks. Fergus sucks. Jill sucks. Management above them sucks for not doing anything about any of this months ago.

      This sounds like a well of dysfunction, Anon, and I hope you’re job searching.

      1. Massmatt*

        This. Several comments focused mostly on Fergus (and he was terrible).

        But—Where was Jill’s manager in all this? Why on earth would you have someone work as a secretary to Fergus but reporting to Jill? That makes no sense. Why was Jill allowed to stonewall any corrective action and keep a bad employee in the organization for a year and a half? And all because she had a personal issue with another manager?

        These are signs of widespread dysfunction.

        1. JanetM*

          Sometimes you get weird org charts. For a long time, I was an admin assistant reporting to the manager of a specific group. I was the only admin who worked outside of the IT building, because my group was faculty / student facing and needed to be on the main campus.

          Then we got a new CIO who decreed that all admin assistants would report to the Business Office, including me (because ITIL says all similar functions must be collocated in a single group).

          So for the next several years, I reported to someone in the Business Office, even though I did all my work for a completely different director. I made it a point to attend Business Office staff meeting every week, even though it was a driving / parking hassle, and even though there was rarely anything discussed that affected me, because I felt it was in my best interests for my nominal manager to see me regularly.

        2. Anonymous for This*

          We have several different geographic locations, and in each location, all of the secretaries report to a supervisory secretary, who reports to the manager.

          But in our location (which is the “main” location), the supervisory secretary directly reported to the division director who oversees all of the locations. So in our location, Jill reported to Jack (Fergus, myself, and the managers of the other locations all report to Jack — the only non-manager who was Jack’s direct report was Jill). Not the end of the world if Jack actually, you know, managed his people. But Jack was worse when it came to management than Jill was. Basically, Jack’s version of a status report is “Is everything going well?” “Sure, Jack.” “Great! I’ll mark down that things are going well on the status check.” Jack *hated* conflict and confrontation, so would passive-aggressively write unclear emails to people when he had an issue with them, but would take no steps to improve things.

          Saying all of this to say, Jack would remark…gosh, Jane’s work is bad. But never hold Jill, his direct report, accountable by saying “What are you doing to ensure Jane improves?”

          Within a month after our office was reorganized to put so that the secretaries in Fergus’ and my units reported directly to us, meaning Jill no longer supervised anyone, Jill took another position, so she is no longer here. But the real purpose of the reorganization was because people “bothered” him here. He works out of another location at least a couple of times a week, and no one comes to him for anything there, whereas here, he would get sucked into the drama between Jill and the person that previously occupied Fergus’ position, or if the secretaries were frustrated with Jill, they would go to Jack.

          Honestly, though, with Jill being gone, Jack deciding to remain permanently in the other location, and the reorganization, the office HAS run much smoother and cleaner. Fergus already has a replacement in mind (he had been granted an additional secretary, and while his first choice for that job accepted (and started today), his second choice is interested in doing Jane’s position), and I suspect John is going to be leaving very soon, or he will shape up (he was honestly a model employee prior, but I think having to constantly cover for Jane or pick up her very heavy slack, as well as dealing with some extremely difficult personal circumstances has driven the negative work behavior we’ve seen here). I doubt the latter will happen, because I think John is to the point where he’s burned out and will want to start fresh somewhere else.

          I am very fortunate that my unit is only suffering from being short-staffed, and not the other myriad of issues that Fergus has had to deal with. Having said that though, I know how to deal with those types of issues appropriately should they occur, so within my own bubble, everything is good.

    10. Anonymous for This*

      The ironic part…John actually left (without telling Fergus) pretty much within a couple of minutes after HR arrived…so I don’t think Fergus got what he wanted.

      Apparently around noon yesterday, Fergus told his people to make sure they were gone at 4:30 pm *and told them why*!!! I don’t think he mentioned Jane’s name, but definitely mentioned personnel changes.

      When I told my people to leave, I spoke to each person individually, behind closed doors, explained that they needed to be gone at 4:30 p.m., but that it had nothing to do with them, and we would speak about the reason today (anyone that has been with our organization for a while knows what this means…someone is getting fired…but we have enough new people that I didn’t want them running around asking questions where Jane might overhear…or might ask, “Oh, do I get to go home too? No? Why not?”).

      When it was all said and done, it did all work out, so to speak. She was able to start packing her things a little after 5 and by 5:30 she was done. Fortunately/unfortunately, her ride was able to wait for her and help her with her things (another reason firing her first thing in the morning would have been bad – I have no idea how in the hell she would have gotten home – apparently Fergus didn’t know that she doesn’t always drive to work/have a car)!

  10. MB*

    Hey everyone, hoping to get your perspectives on my situation. I was recently let go from my job at a strategy consulting firm. I had started in February and initially got positive feedback on my first few projects. Then I was unstaffed to any projects between the end of May and beginning of September, a gap that HR later apologized for and assured it had nothing to do with me. Then my performance on my first project since the gap was much more mixed, although my manager began the project review by saying he wanted me to know that he thought the firm had failed me in my professional development. I then had a meeting with HR where they informed me that this most recent project review combined with my unstaffed summer meant I was no longer progressing on track. Ultimately, this culminated in my leaving in November. While unfortunate, the whole experience helped me realize strategy consulting wasn’t for me and I’m seeking opportunities in a completely different space now. The issue I have is that I’m unsure how to talk about the circumstances that led to me leaving my last job. It doesn’t always come up, given I’m only a year and a half from college and shorter stints at jobs are not uncommon for people of my generation and I genuinely feel it wasn’t the right fit to begin with, but I’m still wondering what the best way to address it would be. I’d appreciate any thoughts you have! Also, a potentially relevant detail is that my old manager has agreed to be a reference and if HR at my old firm is contacted directly they will only confirm my salary, dates of employment, and title. Thanks!

    1. I edit everything*

      I think you could say something along the lines of, “It was a mutual decision that the position wasn’t a good fit, but I’m glad to have gained experience in 1, 2, 3. I’m excited about the X, Y, Z aspects of New Job, which were missing at Old Job.”

    2. CoffeeLover*

      You said you realized consulting wasn’t for you – why not talk about that. There’s no reason to get into the nitty gritty details of your firing. Especially since it barely constitutes as a firing (having worked in the industry, I know I don’t considered it one really).
      Interviewer: why did you leave your last job?
      You: I realized consulting wasn’t for me due to x, y, z. I’d like to focus my career on a, b, c things the role/firm you’re interviewing for has.

      Basically, provide an answer but also put the focus on the job you’re applying to.

      For what it’s worth, I left my consulting job after 1 year and 3 months and it’s never surprised anyone. Turnover in those jobs is super high and most people understand why people leave.

      Also, sorry you had the crappy experience of being asked to leave. They pull that move all the time – and it’s rarely due to some major failing of the person being let go. They’d rather let someone go than invest any kind of effort in developing them or looking into their own short comings. Don’t blame yourself for their crappy management of people and resources. Plus they probably did you a favour in the long run.

    3. jen*

      A couple of good phrases that I’ve heard from Alison and others are “I’m looking for more opportunities for professional growth” and “I was exposed to X during my time at Company, and am now looking to transition to that type of work.”

      Definitely check out the archives here, but in general people want to know that a) you can artfully explain why you’re leaving without poo-pooing your previous employer; and b) that you weren’t fired for something that would be a huge red flag to them. You definitely don’t need to get into that much detail, and it would be unusual for an interviewer to ask for it.

    4. Tex*

      I once heard that the average tenure for a consultant is somewhere around a year. That average includes people who have been in consulting for decades, so there is a stunning amount of turnover for people entering the field as new consultants who nope out of it as quick as 6 weeks in.

      While I think you were given a raw deal by your firm since they left you unstaffed for so long, I don’t think your timeline is out of the norm. Your interviewers don’t have to know how long you were staffed on a project, so just talk about what you learned, how you contributed, what kinds of work excited you, what didn’t, and why you want to move on, etc.

    5. Marthooh*

      Keep it short and sweet: “Unfortunately the company didn’t have as much work to assign to me as they had hoped, so I was let go in November.” (Well, okay, keep it short and true.)

  11. ThatGirl*

    Here is my work bummer for the week: My boss was fully on board with me going to the Sweets & Snacks Expo, an annual expo that showcases new trends in confections, snack foods, etc. I was really looking forward to it. I started to register and waited for them to confirm me. And then I got word that instead of the $50 they charge for early-bird registration for distributors (which we are), wholesalers etc. they were now counting my company as a supplier – and suppliers get charged $1950. Not a typo. And not what my company is willing to spend, especially since multiple other people typically attend as well. The expo folks are apparently unwilling to budge and I am seriously disappointed.

    3. Havarti*

      Geez, that sucks. Who are they to reclassify what kind of company you are? Honestly, I’m thinking they did that because they don’t have enough money to actually fund the expo with the $50 registration fees. It’s a balancing act of trying to charge enough to fund your thing but not so much that you scare people away. In my experience, you’re lucky if you break even on these sort of events so they may be trying to wring more money out of attendees.

      1. ThatGirl*

        It’s a HUGE event – I would think that the companies who are exhibiting more than pay for it. But someone at the NCA (National Confectioners Association – they run it) decided we’d been misclassified for years and made a unilateral decision.

    4. DaisyC*

      That is disappointing, but when things like this happen, I try to step back and think about perspective. *What if* you did go to the expo, and something random and terrible happened while you were there? (one of my co-workers out of nowhere broke her ankle during a trip like that, and it was a nightmare for her) People sometimes say “everything happens for a reason” and maybe that’s true. ‘Blessings in disguise’ mindset helps me a lot when it comes to going with the flow.

      1. ThatGirl*

        I appreciate the thought, but it doesn’t help me to catastrophize about what might have happened there. It would’ve been a fun day downtown for me and a fun work opportunity. It’s not the end of the world that I can’t go, and I can look for other work-related conferences and expos, but Sweets & Snacks is a one of a kind event.

        2. AvonLady Barksdale*

          Yeeeeah, I think it’s enough to say “Dang, that sucks!” and sympathize with you. No need to try to make it into a good thing you didn’t go because you might have broken your ankle.

          So: dang, that sucks. Any way to figure out how to be one of the ones who go next year?

          1. ThatGirl*

            Sadly I don’t think anyone from our company is going to get to go if it costs that much per person.

        3. Who Plays Backgammon?*

          That stinks and I’m sorry it happened to you. Any chance you could be included in the future?

    5. Marketing Manager*

      This happens to me all the time. Reach out to an actual person and they’ll likely be able to give you the $50 rate once you explain.

      1. ThatGirl*

        Someone from our product development team already reached out and explained we’d been charged $50 in previous years and were told that we’d been misclassified per their parent org. While I could spend some time arguing, I’m not sure it would be worth it.

        1. Who Plays Backgammon?*

          Start a blog about how sweets and snack foods are bad for you, citing obesity rates, dental problems, etc., and make them a bad guy! :)

    8. kittymommy*

      I just looked it up (possibly to see if I can attend…. or just show up and look pathetic) and 1.) it sounds awesome and 2.) I too am sad because it’s not open to the general public!!!!

      1. Sleepless*

        My first boss’ parents used to go to it as distributors. We looked forward to a bunch of samples afterward in the break room. :-)

    9. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      Is your company a supplier technically speaking? Or a distributor? Why are they “now counting your company as a supplier” — either something has changed in the meantime, or there’s a business relationship you weren’t aware of (doesn’t bode well) or they are trying it on.

      I’m struggling to think of a situation where a company / business unit could be both supplier and distributor of a particular product (as of course it typically goes supplier -> company -> distributor -> possibly other distributors -> end person buying the product/service) which is sort of a linear view of the supply chain admittedly.

      Of course companies could be a supplier and distributors of giant mega-corp companies with different components but I feel that’s not what’s happening here.

      Is it possible the S&S Expo tries this with all/some of their exhibitors every year?

      1. ThatGirl*

        You may not see this – but we are a well-known household brand that distributes and sells bakeware, baking supplies, decorating supplies and confectionary items such as sprinkles, icing, melting chocolate, etc. There are bakeries, restaurants etc that treat us as a supplier, but everything is retail packaged.

  12. Technical Writer*

    Short version: I worked myself into a dying niche, and now I can’t claw my way out.

    Long version: I have 20 years of experience as a technical writer, but in very low-tech applications (mostly old-fashioned industrial products that haven’t changed in decades). I recently finished a master’s degree in Information Systems, and am trying to pivot into a higher-tech specialty like software.

    Of course, experience is wanted even for associate positions. I have no ability to use anything tech-oriented at my current job; the company is a dinosaur serving customers who are also dinosaurs. Requests to do special projects (like build a product catalog app) have been firmly denied. Even if I’m willing to start over at an entry-level software tech writing job, I keep hitting a wall in that I’m either being pigeon-holed as too old to change, or I’m more of a risk than a cheap 22-year-old who will put their nose to the grindstone and not ask questions.

    There is one local company that makes very specialized software that is desperate for a technical writer, but no one is applying because their product is being replaced by a much better competitor’s product, and their market share is down to almost nothing. Taking that job would be a huge pay cut, and would definitely end in a layoff soon.

    Any ideas on how to escape this loop?

    1. irene adler*

      Are you involved with any local chapters of professional organizations in the software industry? Specifically an organization that is attended by folks who hold jobs similar to what you are seeking.

      Maybe networking with folks who attend their events would help with getting tips on how to get the jobs you seek. And to make connections with folks who would know about job openings.

    2. T. Boone Pickens*

      Forgive me for potentially being potentially dense here but does technicial writing have a platform like GitHub/Thumbtack where you can showcase your skills/portfolio by doing some freelance work? Hopefully your employer doesn’t have a policy on moonlighting that they would try and enforce when it comes to this.

    3. Troutwaxer*

      Get involved in an Open Source project, preferably a big one connected to a major Linux supplier such as Red Hat or Canonical. You’ll be working for free, (at least at first) but you’ll have experience working on a piece of major technical infrastructure with a modern idea of technical writing. If you’re in Southern California you should attend SCALE (The Southern California Linux Expo) where there’s usually a track on how to get involved with Open Source projects, often put on by Red Hat.

    4. ET*

      The local company might be a shortcut to some experience, but… huge pay cut is a definite downside.

      You could try contacting TripleByte (triplebyte.com) to see if they are interested or a good fit for helping you out; their explicit mission is to take personal bias out of the software engineering hiring process and allow companies to focus on hiring for actual ability. While I don’t think they cover technical writing at all, they might be interested in talking, since your problem is in that same social category. They are also hiring a remote “Writer and Managing Editor” which might be worth taking a peek at.

    5. Undine*

      Thoughts
      Look at the local listings for writers and programmers and see what technologies they are asking for in jobs. Then do some of the following
      * Take a course at your local community college in Java, JavaScript, or something else you see mentioned. Or an online course but real world interaction can help.
      * Learn an inline documentation tool and make a sample project in it – Javadoc, Swagger, Markdown. You don’t have to understand how to write code, you have to have a program someone else has written and know where to put the documentation tags. This may need someone else who can set up the machinery for building and displaying the documentation you write.
      * Learn what topic based documentation is and apply those principals to everything you do.
      * Get a portfolio website and upload some of your documentation samples to it.
      * Learn HTML and CSS.

    6. Rusty Shackelford*

      Do you have time to take on some contract work, even just on a short-term basis? That desperate local company might be willing to contract out some work, and you’d get experience without having to take the lower-pay and higher-risk job.

    7. LKW*

      What about less tech writer and more procedure writer? QA positions are in every firm, in particular those that have heavy regulation (finance, pharma, chemicals). I’d think you could make a lateral move.

      1. Anonnnnn*

        Technical Communication covers a large range of documentation types, including procedures, so this would make a transition more feasible. I’m not sure how you’re framing your job hunt, OP, but using “document” or “policy” instead of “technical” or “writer” might help you out!

    8. whyamihere*

      Have you thought about UX/UX writing? Looks like the skills are very similar, and at least in my city (DC), there’s a lot of high paying jobs in this field.

    9. Grey Coder*

      I’m not sure what kind of technical writing you’ve been doing, but lots of technical writing for software is marketing in the form of blog posts. (“Here’s how to use our software to do this cool thing!”) I’d echo the suggestion to find an open source project to contribute to, and build up a portfolio on medium or github.

      1. Diahann Carroll*

        Software companies also need technical writers to be proposal writers/managers and content development managers.

    11. Military Prof*

      Have you considered positions that rely upon the same skillset, but are not “technical writer” listings? For example, for every technical writer producing content, there’s a copy editor checking that content (on technicalities, no less) before it is released–perhaps you should look into becoming a copyeditor instead? Depending upon your speed and the breadth of topics you’re willing to copyedit (and to be honest, you don’t need to know much about most subjects in order to copyedit them), you might find that the copyediting route is much more lucrative than content generation.
      You might also be able to apply your personal experience to teaching others how to engage in technical writing, or utilize your skillset in a position that doesn’t immediately sound the same as what you do now–but that in practice, is remarkably similar.

    12. Donkey Hotey*

      First up: tech writer solidarity fist bump. (I’m at 15 years myself, primarily dinosaur industrial, too.)
      I’m sorry your area is drying up. Wish I had a suggestion beyond keeping your eyes peeled for something that could bridge where you are and where you want to be. Also, at least around here, it’s who you know. Look to see if there are professional organizations or even a FB group (we have one in Seattle where tech writers share postings they have or know about).

      Good luck!

    13. Probably Taking This Too Seriously*

      I lead a content team at a health-related brand and a number of the people on my team came from backgrounds in unrelated fields. Finding a writer who can translate technical language into consumer-friendly, engaging prose is not so easy. Look for corporate jobs calling for a copywriter in your area—you may be surprised!

    14. hamsterpants*

      This is kind of a long shot, but where do you live, and, would you consider moving? I live in a city that is generally underserved and let me tell you, the job market is WAY more forgiving on people without experience than in other places.

  13. anon fed*

    I’ve been thinking about this as other posts have brought up coronavirus this week. In a spirit of curiosity and planning, not of panic, I’m wondering how workplaces are handling coronavirus in areas where it’s already an issue, and planning for it in areas where it may soon become one.

    I work in a federal building in the Southern U.S., and the rumor mill is suggesting teleworking for everyone and extensive minimization of in-person meetings. A friend at a major research university on the East Coast says they’re dusting off their old bird flu plan.

    I guess I’m a planner; while the thought of a pandemic is unfamiliar and frightening to me, I feel calmer knowing how to prepare. The post from the boss earlier today was great, but I’m also wondering about more macro planning.

    Best wishes for everyone’s health, especially in the regions already affected.

    1. CheeryO*

      My boyfriend’s company had two people come back from Wuhan right as the news was breaking. The first one returned right before it blew up, and the second was quarantined for a bit and then routed through one of the airports that were testing people. The first one was allowed to stay home for the remainder of the incubation period and the second was given a full two weeks off to self-quarantine, with no charge to his PTO.

      They are able to WFH to an extent, but I believe the second person didn’t have his work laptop with him, and they did not let anyone deliver it to him. It likely had a major impact on their work flow since they’re understaffed and way overworked, but people were panicked and they did the right thing, thankfully.

      1. Rebecca*

        I wonder why they didn’t arrange to deliver the laptop to the door, ring the bell or knock to let the person know they were leaving it, and walk away?

    2. Anon for now*

      My employer has pretty much zero plan as far as I can tell. The word to employees is wash your hands and avoid sick people. The word to supervisors (and I sh*t you not, this is labeled as the org’s “proactive preparation”) is to encourage sick employees to go home. That is the entirety of it.

    3. Bubbles*

      I work in k-12 education so I am in a “butts in the seat” job. Our district sent a letter out to parents (and then two days later decided they should tell employees what the letter said…) regarding the steps they would take. However, they have not addressed the situation with subs or quarantines. The benefits committee met yesterday to discuss options and recommendations.

      What makes this extra fun is that in California, sanitizing wipes and hand sanitizers are classified as pesticides. We cannot provide them to students or have them used in classrooms unless it is after hours with no students present. To purchase, store, or apply them, we have to complete a pesticide training. That was a year ago – all the secretaries had to do that. They don’t allow teachers to have them inside the classroom. Yet the notice that was sent out to us specifically stated that we should be washing our hands frequently, using hand sanitizers and sanitizing wipes between classes to protect students and staff.

      So that’s fun. People are a bit up in arms about the mixed messages. I did discover that you can order hand sanitizers and wipes through our portal but it is all out of stock.

      1. Steve*

        From the science I read a few years ago the hand sanitizers and wipes mostly move viruses around the hands (many aren’t neutralized), so it is much better to wash them.

      2. Diahann Carroll*

        Stock your classrooms with spray bottles full of 91% rubbing alcohol – seriously. It’s way more effective at killing germs than hand sanitizer due to the higher alcohol content and it hasn’t been banned by your school’s insane pesticide policy, so you technically wouldn’t be breaking any rules.

        1. just a random teacher*

          After an incident with some students deciding to light hand sanitizer on fire a few years ago, a lot of schools around here don’t allow alcohol-based hand sanitizer anymore. No idea if that’s being walked back now. (My school allows alcohol-based hand sanitizer, but we’re more laid-back in general and also will do things like leave a knife out so students can cut a piece of cake for themselves. It’s a combination of school size and school culture.)

        2. Red Light Specialist*

          I was fascinated to learn that actually, higher percentage alcohol doesn’t disinfect better. Standard 70% “rubbing alcohol” is considered the most effective. The time it remains wet on the surface is when it’s killing stuff, and evaporation time is so fast with 91% or 99% that it’s dry before it does the job. Makes it good for electronics and things that are damaged by moisture, but for skin, stick with the cheaper-and-easier 70%.

          My favorite hand disinfectant is BZK-based – benzalkonium chloride. Any chance that makes it past the pesticide law? It’s available for both skin and surfaces, and according to my light research, is at least as effective as alcohol-based products (and easier on skin).

    4. Environmental Compliance*

      Midwest region here. Our corporate team emailed us this morning to ask if we had a pandemic response plan.

      We do not. Well, did not. We do have a section now in our emergency response plan that goes over pandemics/widespread illness.

      Weirdly, though, it doesn’t seem like Corporate has one, which is very strange as they oversee a whole bunch of facilities across the country, and we’re just this one facility. You’d think they’d have one they’d roll out to all of us.

    5. RabbitRabbit*

      My employer has a plan but we’re a large hospital/clinic/academic facility, so it makes a lot of sense. Nothing too dramatic yet, mostly focused around patient screening, guidelines on when to use the N-95 masks, etc. Following the local school district’s policy about students who were in mainland China. Basically watching CDC/etc. recommendations and the team updating policy. I’m assuming that if things get scary it’ll be a shift towards ‘non-essential personnel’ (more admin workers, etc.) working from home when applicable, intensified cleaning requirements, probably screening for fever/etc, and that kind of thing.

    6. cmcinnyc*

      NYC here. We will definitely be hit eventually, there’s no way we won’t. City & State on it full time, ignoring the Feds as they are in full chucklehead mode to the point that the state has asked permission to test/process in-state instead of sending to CDC in Atlanta. If they get told no my strong suspicion is they’ll do it anyway and send a second sample to CDC. We’ve been through major disasters before, and have a highly professional environment around that, so I’m not too worried. If schools close, that will be a major disruption (we have over a million school kids, one of them mine), but unless and until that happens, life goes on as normal.

      1. san junipero*

        As a born and raised New Yorker, this doesn’t surprise me at all. NYC is nothing if not resilient.

      2. Nita*

        Yeah. I don’t know what working parents will do if schools close. On the other hand, hygiene in schools is so horrible they’re just disease central. My kid told me they’re not being encouraged to wash hands before lunch – in fact the teachers make sure they don’t go anywhere but straight to the lunchroom. We got him a bottle of sanitizer and blissfully assumed he’s using it as a backup. Nope. Last week it turned out that they’re not given time to do that either. Apparently he just keeps the bottle in his backpack, which is in the closet with his street clothes, and no one’s said a word to him about maybe moving it to his desk and using it *headdesk* (kid is a second grader – he can be pretty mature about other things, but I’ve yet to really get across how important hygiene is)

        1. JohnSnowsPumpHandle*

          The good news here is that because kids are such walkin piles of (adorable) mucus like 50% of the time, and most colds are caused by corona viruses they are likely to have a higher rate of baseline immunity to this particular strain than us adults.

          1. RabbitRabbit*

            That appears to be the case from the latest info I’ve read – low rates of complications/infections in kids so far, but the elderly/immunocompromised/otherwise suffering from other major health problems are not doing well.

    7. Lora*

      Global company with sites in mainland China here.

      -The sites in mainland China have been closed until further notice. No travel to or from mainland China, Iran, Hong Kong, South Korea, Taiwan, Italy or Japan. For people who live there, they may try to work from home if possible.
      -In the Asia-Pacific region, business critical travel only.
      -Site in Singapore, people must have daily temperature checks from the company nurse. Anyone with even a slight fever is sent home and tested for coronavirus over two weeks. They may work from home or take sick days. We did have one employee who tested positive, they are better now though and have been cleared to return.
      -Minimize visitors. Visitors who have recently traveled in the Asia-Pacific region, Iran or Italy are not allowed on site.
      -People departing from the banned travel regions must be quarantined 14 days before return to work regardless of health status.
      -Personal travel to be reviewed on a case by case basis by the company medical staff.
      Other sites are watchfully waiting. We have company nurses at every site who will do temperature checks as needed depending on the local incidence.

      This may seem overreaching, but we make sterile drugs for injection into patients – our employees already submit to a fairly extensive medical check to ensure they aren’t carrying communicable diseases, have appropriate antibody titers and vaccinations, and they are certainly sent home for the common sniffles as well, with company nurse approval required to return to work. Everyone gets a lot of training about proper handwashing and they distribute hand sanitizer like halloween candy.

    8. LKW*

      My company is enforcing greater scrutiny on travel to and from regions including Italy now. However, people are still permitted/expected to travel. Self-quarantine is suggested where possible.

    9. The IT Plebe*

      I work at a high school in Washington, DC; so like the NYC poster above, it is almost inevitable that we’ll get hit.

      A team of admins and the school nurse had a meeting yesterday and a note was emailed to parents today, which our Director of Communications sent to all faculty and staff before it went out. The finer points were that no confirmed cases are in the National Capital Region, all campus buildings are cleaned daily and have lots of hand sanitizer and tissues, and then bullet points on staying healthy (wash hands, stay home when sick, the usual).

      That said, I am not actually employed by the school; they just have a contract with my actual company (IT, if my username wasn’t clear :)) and they haven’t said a word to us about it.

    10. Quill*

      I’m in Chicago and it’s just… not come up beyond that southeast asia business affiliates keep telling us “we’ll get to it at some point, sorry, virus” and we keep going “ABSOLUTELY DO NOT WORRY yikes we’ll just write down ‘pandemic delay’ as the excuse for not meeting this deadline.”

    11. Rexasaurus Tea*

      Tech company in Seattle here, with sales and development offices around the world. We’ve told people to cancel any business travel to, from, or through China, Japan, South Korea, Hong Kong, Singapore, and Italy. People who have recently traveled in those areas are required to self-quarantine for two weeks. Business travel outside those regions continues as usual, but people who are not comfortable doing so are given full support to cancel or reschedule. We have also canceled some customer events that had originally been scheduled to take place in Japan in the next couple weeks.

      Aside from that, we’re business as usual, with reminders to follow the usual recommended processes for hygiene during flu season (wash hands, stay home when sick, etc.).

    12. Rebecca*

      Rural PA here – my company is pretty much butts in seats, but I handle one of our largest customers, and all of a sudden, without asking, I’ve been upgraded to a laptop in case I need to work from home. I might add this happened very quickly, and after the news of the virus started and factory partners in China did not return from CNY. I anticipate if something happens that we have to stay home for any reason, I’ll still be working.

    13. Nita*

      I assume my workplace will default to remote working for anyone who’s able. We’ve test-run the system several times already in major snowstorms, post-hurricane delays etc. Not sure what will be done about our boots-on-the ground commitments, but if things look really bad our field staff do have respirators (the real deal, not face masks). Normally these are used for toxic chemical cleanup, but technically they also have virus filtering capability. But… this is an exception, not the rule. I can’t imagine what people who cannot work from home will do, never mind what will happen to the service industry.

    14. Malory Archer*

      I’m part of a bicoastal company (main offices in SF and NYC). We’re really well equipped to work remotely so we’ll be ok, but they announced this week that they were banning all work travel between the offices for the next month.

      …of course, I happen to be one of the few NYC folks visiting the SF office this week, and we were joking about what we would need to do if the office banned us from going home. (Renegade road trip escape?)

    15. Also a fed*

      My agency (headquartered in the DC area) issued guidance last week. Anyone returning from China should not enter any of our facilities for two weeks. If you have a telework agreement you’ll be expected to WFH and if you don’t you’ll be given two weeks of administrative leave. No word yet on whether this will be expanded to cover other areas with large numbers of infections. And judging by the email address this came from, it is specific to my agency.

    16. I'mBackAfterALongBreak*

      Large company in the Pacific Northwest. We have issued work-related travel restrictions to level 2 & 3 countries and review of travel to level 1 countries. Individuals who take personal travel to level 2 & 3 countries have been asked to notify the company and will be required to work from home for 14 days prior to returning to their office.

    17. A Poster Has No Name*

      Literally just got an email about it.

      Essentially, travel is restricted to affected countries but the offices in those areas are working through what they can to return to work.

      For the rest of us, do the usual not to get sick and here’s an intranet site where updates will be posted as developments warrant.

      We have the ability to WFH, however, and they did some disaster preparedness thing where, at our office, we were all required to log in from home at the same time to test the systems.

      They must have made changes since, though, because people have VPN issues when there’s a snowstorm and maybe a third of people WFH, so I don’t have much faith that if all of us were working from home the VPN would be able to handle it (we have ~7K people in this location). Anyway.

      I’m scheduled to attend a big-ish conference in Vegas at the end of next month. I have heard nothing about any contingency planning from the conference organizers, but it’s obviously a risk. It’s so hard to plan out any distance at all with so much uncertainty about how & when it will spread.

    18. Diahann Carroll*

      My company has sent out a global company-wide notice that business travel will no longer be approved to, from, or within China or any other place that has a significant number of coronavirus cases. Travel to, from, and within other S. East Asian countries have also been severely restricted for employees for the foreseeable future. I feel for my colleagues that work in these countries on long-term projects – some of them are from the U.S. or the U.K., and I don’t think my company is approving their travel to come home either. If they want to return, they’ll have to attempt to fly back on their own dime.

      1. Gatomon*

        That’s awful to leave employees stranded overseas! I hope they are at least continuing to provide lodging and per diem for those employees who can’t get home.

    19. AcademiaNut*

      I live in Taiwan, so it’s been a very active process. Also, the government has been acting quickly, logically and transparently, which is very helpful. Taiwan was hit by SARS, so I get the distinct impression that they had a plan worked out for something like this, and are acting, rather than just reacting.

      One of the parts of recent legislation was job/PTO protection for workers who are quarantined, so that if you’re quarantined by government order, you don’t lose your job, and you don’t lose your PTO on it. They mandated 5 extra days PTO for parents of children under 12, if needed to care for children during school closures (only one parent can stay at home at a time if using this). On a larger scale, a number of international meetings, particularly in Japan, have either been cancelled or moved to remote only, or remote optional. There is an effective mask rationing system, linked to health insurance cards, and people in more at risk professions (like taxi drivers) get more. There is a detailed plan for schools (which are now back in session) regarding what to do if a teacher or student is infected.

      On a smaller scale, we’ve got hand sanitizer everywhere. My job is one where a lot of people can work from home, and they’re not giving people grief for cancelling trips to high risk regions, even if the travel funds are non refundable. We also, fortunately, do not have fully open offices – most people are in offices with three or fewer people.

      My office is also being very quick about forwarding any new regulations and requirements, in both English and Chinese, and explaining how this affects us.

    20. Gatomon*

      Plan? Hah, there is no plan from management. Or if there is one, they’re not communicating it (par for the course – got an email today referencing some meeting that I had 0 knowledge of.). We’re not in an impacted area, but we have tons of people traveling for business and pleasure, so I don’t think we’re as safe as people seem to feel. (We’ve also had a number of illnesses tear through the office this winter, with the latest being a stomach virus. :( I think the last few cubicle additions have pushed us over some critical mass level for infectious disease propagation, and somehow more people are coming.)

      Personally I’m going to start stockpiling food because I have dietary restrictions. I can work from home most days so if it crops up out here, that’s what I’ll do.

    21. Princesa Zelda*

      I (AZ) work for a City, and the only messaging we’ve had so far is the “Don’t panic, wash your hands, stay home when you’re sick.” I am an hourly employee and I have to reserve my sick time for when I am actually unable to come in, rather than “when I feel bad” or “when I have a communicable illness” because that covers, like, multiple months of the year. I get 40 hours/year.

      My sister, who lives in LA metro, works at a restaurant franchise location inside a large multinational entertainment company, and the contrast isn’t as obvious as you’d think! The entertainment company has closed their China and Japan branches and is encouraging people in their France and Florida locations who have recently traveled to Italy to stay home, but they haven’t communicated at all with frontline staff in California as far as she’s aware beyond “wash your hands, stay home if you’re sick, also we don’t offer sick time”. Meanwhile, her restaurant franchise’s main manager recently threatened to fire her if she calls out sick. She also doesn’t get sick time.

      1. fhqwhgads*

        California requires employees get 3 sick days (24 hours) a year (or if you’re not full time, I think it’s prorated with minimums based on how many hours you worked). If they’re really saying “no sick time at all” they may not be compliant.

        1. Princesa Zelda*

          Just asked my sister – the entertainment company does give sick time but not enough to actually stay home if you get sick. The restaurant, her actual employer, says that it does, but if she actually tried to take it she would be fired.

    22. nymitz*

      In the southern US, and pandemic planning is part of our core business. WFH is a normal part of our culture and most people do 1-2 days per week anyway. We’ve got a solid continuity of operations plan in place that is updated annually and gets tested every time there’s an ice storm, and we can all hunker down — 75% of our workforce could do WFH for 2-4 weeks and the only impact would be driving our spouses bananas.

      People fighting over sanitizer in the grocery store though? that’s what we’re not ready for.

    23. tamarack & fireweed*

      My partner’s workplace: https://www.fastly.com/blog/exercising-caution-as-covid-19-evolves . She is already a fully remote employee, as are most in her team, so this is quite an interesting exercise for them to turn temporarily completely remote. My partner will not be going to an industry event that takes place three times a year, but then, she was already skipping the next edition (and has been lobbying for those also to be turning into primarily remote events).

      In my workplace, there is a list of countries (most of East Asia, plus a few others) that we cannot travel to on institution funds. Supervisors also have been instructed to be generous approving work-from-home requests. But given this is academia getting supervisors in line is a bit like herding cats…

  14. Actuarial Octagon*

    Any advice on how to make small talk with people you know in the industry when you are on opposite sides in a meeting?

    I work as a consultant and a lot of my job is helping clients manage and monitor their other service providers. I may work with a specific service provider on a handful of clients so I know them fairly well. I could for example ask how their new puppy is doing, but I’m concerned about appearing too chummy in front of clients given the relationship structure. I’m sure lawyers deal with this all the time but I find myself totally tongue tied and I can only talk about the weather for so long.

    1. LadyByTheLake*

      Lawyer here — most good attorneys make a point of being friends with the other side. I am on one side of a contentious issue (I represent banks) and many of my best lawyer friends are on the other side (representing consumers). The main thing is respect — we respect each other’s work and positions and although we sometimes have spirited discussions we agree that we’re both trying to make things better and run smoother for everyone. We all also like puppies. Having that personal connection makes business run more smoothly — if we are genuinely disagreeing on something it is easier to reach a resolution when we have a personal friendship to fall back on. It is important to make those personal connections and anyone who thinks otherwise or who would look down on you for being too “chummy” is not a business person whose opinion I would respect.

      1. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

        I’ve been curious about this for a long time… can you (or any other lawyers) answer?

        …. how far does “being friends with the other side” go? Are you actually friends IRL (on the level of – you would go out for drinks on Friday night and stuff like that?) or just that you know each other and have a history from your previous… I want to say “matchups”… previous cases where you have been on opposing sides and so you get an idea (mutually) of what the other person is like. So when you go up against this person as ‘the other side’… you are both just doing your jobs to the best of your abilities and respect each other, but don’t feel personally invested in the outcome?

        In my line of work I don’t have ‘adversaries’ or ‘the other side’ as such, but I do have people I fall out with professionally but am actually friends with…

    2. Mid*

      I’m not sure there’s anything wrong with asking about their new puppy. I would hope that clients understand that people on both sides of the table are human beings.

    3. Type 2*

      Ask people about any upcoming travel plans. This often leads to a mention of children – and most parents love to talk about their children!

      Don’t ask people directly if they have children, though – that could get touchy.

      Puppies are always a welcome topic.

    4. Marny*

      As an attorney, I usually pre-warn my clients that I know the opposing party and that I’ve found that being amiable and chatty with them is beneficial to my clients. That way, when they see me being friendly (how are your kids? how’s the new puppy? do anything fun this weekend?) they see it as strategy that is meant to help them so they don’t get weirded out about us all acting like normal nice people.

      1. lurker :)*

        I definitely think this is so important ! When the client expects you to have their back in an adversarial process, it’s important to prepare them for the chit chat so that they don’t get the impression that you are being cavalier about their case/problem, and so that they will still trust you!

      2. This Is Still A Sore Point*

        Yes, please do that. Here is a cautionary tale for y’all:

        One upon a time in the last decade, my lawyer, the prosecutor, and the judge (and the court reporter) carpooled to my hearing.
        (in my country involunatry psychiatric commitment cases are civil cases filed by prosecutors)

        Logistically, it probably made sense to carpool – the hearing was in the psychiatric hospital, not the courthouse. The subject was whether or not my involuntary commitment would be extended.

        My lawyer was crap all around, including saying ‘Anon wants to leave but I think we all know she has to stay here’ (hello, that’s the prosecutor’s job to say and the judge’s job to decide – your job is to argue why I should be allowed to leave!) but it certainly didn’t add to the image that they’d all driven in together, appeared very chummy, and that my private consultation time with the lawyer was limited to the few minutes the judge and prosecutor (and the court reporter) were getting coffee from the hospital break room.

        When a few months later, I got a letter from government legal aid to tell me that the lawyer they had provided was free and I didn’t have to pay, it included the standard line of ‘you can appeal this decision’. I seriously contemplated appealing the statement that they’d provided me with a lawyer.

        My cautionary tale is thus: if you’re involuntarily committed, don’t rely on an assigned lawyer.
        And if you’re a judge/mediator or client representative, and you can’t/won’t/shouldn’t avoid being friendly with a/the other side, please reassure your client that you are there for their interests and no one else’s.

  15. Anonymous Educator*

    If you got a temp-to-perm position, how aggressively would you keep looking for jobs while you’re working it? Or, I guess another related question would be—what indicators would be best (apart from an explicit permanent contract) that you should look less aggressively?

    1. ThatGirl*

      Does the company have a reputation for hiring their temps, or is it a way to get cheap labor? Are people there encouraging? Do you LIKE the work and environment? I was a long-term contractor/permatemp for 4 years, and after the first few months I realized that they might take their sweet time in hiring me for real, but they liked me, liked my work, had a tendency to keep contractors on for long periods and would do their best to keep me. I did keep looking on and off, but that was mostly ’cause I had no benefits or PTO.

    2. Legally a Vacuum*

      I kept looking pretty aggressively. When I received another offer, I went to my current employer and let them know- basically “hey, I like working here, I’d like to come on as an employee, but I do have an option for employment elsewhere, I need to make the decision in the next week.”

      I knew they wanted to keep me, and being transparent about both what I wanted (non-contract employment) made them feel like I was giving them a very straightforward option. If they didn’t want to keep me, this was the chance for them to wish me well as I moved on to another position.

      I did get an offer, and I stayed with the job I had previously temped at.

      1. Alli525*

        Exact same thing happened to me – I was hired as a part-time temp with the expectation that my hours would gradually increase as we got closer to the event I was hired to help with. But that meant I wouldn’t be able to take another PT temp job, so I kept interviewing for FT/perm jobs, and told my manager that I was doing so.

        I didn’t even get an offer from another company before my manager convinced the CEO to hire me FT & perm (in a “we’ll figure out what to do with her after the event” sort of way, which was surprising, but that’s what happens when you make yourself indispensible as quickly as possible).

    3. Colette*

      How long can you survive if they decide to let you go? If the answer is anything other than a few months, I’d keep looking.

      1. foolofgrace*

        I also would keep looking. It’s unfortunately not unusual for companies to dangle the carrot of “permanent employment” in front of a temp, sometimes for a long time, while they have no actual intent of hiring someone on and have to give them health insurance, PTO, etc. I may be jaded but I wouldn’t take them at their word. It doesn’t hurt to look around!

    4. Neosmom*

      As a temp, I got strung along by a supervisor who kept renewing my agency’s contract on me and barked at me in April after about 9 months when I asked about converting to permanent employment. He was devastated when I found a great position four months later and tried to counter offer.

      Said he could offer me a better title and include pension benefits. I had to tell him that pension offerings for new employees had ended on August 1.

      Keep looking and cherry pick for the right organization and role.

    5. we're basically gods*

      My last job was a temp-to-hire, and I think it was mostly because the company would rather pay a contracting company to find people to place in low-training roles than deal with it themselves. (I don’t mean to demean the job I was doing, but it was really truly entry level– as in, it probably didn’t even need a college education. Everything I did was easily trainable on the job, and I only rarely used my other skills.)
      But it was fairly clear from the beginning that it was intended to eventually become permanent. The most obvious sign was that my coworkers and boss mentioned the intent to make me permanent a few times, of course. But they also made a point of integrating me into the team and trying to give me perks that weren’t part of my contract, but were available to permanent employees– the best one was that, even though I was hourly, they paid me for holidays when the office was closed! This made it really clear that their goal was to retain me.
      (I did not end up going permanent at that job, because it wasn’t in my field, but based on conversations during my notice period, I’m fairly certain they were waiting until the year contracting period was up and they could buy me out from the contracting company.)

    6. Cap. Marvel*

      I pretty much keep looking until I received a job offer; but pretty casually until two months before my temp assignment would be up. My position wasn’t supposed to be temp-to-perm, but the person who I was covering for was given a promotion when she came back so they offered her position to me.
      Before the promotion news, my company was actually super supportive and told me that they were trying to keep me on, but understood that I needed to do what was best for me. If they were less transparent or seemingly didn’t care about my status I would have taken that as an indication that I needed to look more aggressively.

      2. Amy Sly*

        The team leaders at my doc review job had a similar attitude, basically “We know you didn’t go to law school to get this job, so give us 40 hours a week and do what’s best for you.”

    7. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      I would keep looking ‘aggressively’. Best case, you get a better offer that you can move to (perm presumably) without having to worry if you will be made permanent at the existing place. Middle case, you get a perm offer from your current place. Worst case (but has to be considered) they don’t keep you at the end of the temp contract, and then you are already well into the search phase.

      Tbh I don’t think there are any indicators other than an explicit permanent contract that should make you call off the search, if you are after a permanent role.

  16. Count Boochie Flagrante*

    Passed my Series 9 licensing exam yesterday! Now on to the series 10, which I have been told is an absolute bear of an exam. But I enjoy learning and take tests well, so I’m feeling pretty confident that I can meet the challenge.

    2. Ann Perkins*

      Congratulations! I have my 9/10 as well. If you passed the 9, you’ll be fine on the 10. It’s horribly boring but not anymore difficult IMO.

      1. Ellie Mayhem*

        Agreed. I found the 7 the most arduous of all of my securities exams. Well, other than the CFP exam, which was its own special wretchedness.

        1. Anon for this*

          The CFP exam was by far the toughest I have taken. I’m not sure if they have changed the format, it used to be over 2 days, A 4 hour session on Friday, then 2 3 hour sessions on Saturday. I am usually among the first people to finish exams and I was STRUGGLING to get done, especially in the 3 hour sessions.

          One thing I didn’t expect was how stressed I was even AFTER the exam. I had to wait several weeks for the results and I was obsessing over it.

          I found the 6 pretty easy, comparatively, and the 66 surprisingly hard. So much minutia about state laws, ugh.

          I took the 7 recently to be able to handle stock and ETFs, not a major focus for me but I have some clients with them so I needed it. I was among the last to take the “old” format, where they ask about everything. It was “only” 6 hours, LOL. After doing the CFP everything else seems easy.

          Now they have a prelim exam and the other exams are more content-specific, which would make more sense.

          2. Dream Jobbed*

            I came out of the CFP exam absolutely convinced I had failed. Other people thought it was really easy. Some of them didn’t pass, I did. I think if you don’t prepare enough, you don’t know how tricky the questions really are.

            Can’t decide if CFP or EA was the more difficult exam. Passed the EA exam on my first try because I didn’t have any real world (practical) experience to get in the way of what the IRS wanted me to parrot. Could never pass it now. :D

      2. Count Boochie Flagrante*

        Glad to hear it! I’ve heard everything from “the series 66 on steroids and doubled” to “eh it’s like the 7 but from a manager’s perspective.”

  17. Foreign Octopus*

    Boundaries as a freelancer: I just wanted to touch base and ask whether this was a normal boundary to have.

    I work as an ESL teacher but I also do proofreading, translating, and writing on the side. Last week I had someone contact me for proofreading at the beginning of the week and I said yes, happy to do it, please get it to me by X day if you want me to do it by Y as I’m busy. They didn’t send it to me until Saturday morning and asked for it to be returned by the end of the weekend.

    Now, I had the time to do it, I wasn’t doing anything that weekend, but I try really hard to create a strict delineation between workdays and the weekend otherwise I’ll get burnt out from always being on. My client was fine when I told her that I was unable to do it, no problem there, but I suppose I’m feeling a little bit of guilt about saying no when I could have done it.

    Is it good to be strict about the work-life balance as a freelancer, or should I make exceptions if I know it’s the only thing I’ll be working on that weekend?

    1. Legally a Vacuum*

      If you don’t hold boundaries, then you create an unrealistic expectations for the future. Maybe this was just for one weekend, but what happens when that client regularly expects you to accommodate them?

    2. ET*

      It seems healthy and reasonable to draw this kind of hard boundary around your weekend. It’s fine to make exceptions, of course, but I think the slippery slope argument does apply here — how do you know what’s a harmless exception, vs. what is a step on the path to burnout? Will you know before you are already halfway down that path?

    3. Goldfinch*

      From someone who freelances: it’s not about the weekend, it’s about the turnaround time.

      This time, you happened to have the ability to turn a project around in two days, but you would have set that as the standard going forward. Instead, you taught them that you need more lead time and cannot drop everything for them. It was the right call.

      1. Shirley Keeldar*

        Another fellow freelancer–exactly right! (For the same reason, I don’t turn things in early as a general rule even if I’ve finished early–I don’t want clients to expect instant turnaround.) I honestly believe they respect our work more if we are protective of our time.

    4. I edit everything*

      Nooo. If someone sends me something on the weekend, I don’t work on it until Monday. Especially if I’ve given them a project window, which you did. I would make an exception for an established client who found themself in a pinch, but not for a new client. I am pretty strict about weekends/workdays. It’s so easy for work to creep in, and I don’t want to give it a foothold if I can avoid it.

    5. Dust Bunny*

      Nah, don’t feel guilty.

      The thing is, you may not always have the time to do it, and it’s a lot easier to deal with clients when you have an established policy of X number of days in advance, or whatever. If you do it on short notice sometimes they don’t take your boundaries as seriously. Even my non-freelance job pushes back when people request (scans, etc. We work with rare books and photographs) on short notice.

    6. londonedit*

      I’ve done freelance work before, and I think having boundaries is really important. On the one hand, it’s nice to develop a reputation as someone who can get things done well and in a timely manner, but there’s definitely a balance between that and the slippery slope of ‘Oh we can send it to Foreign Octopus, they always turn things around no matter how tight a deadline we give them’. There’s also the freelance fear of ‘But if I turn this down, what if I never get another job?’ which is very real and valid, and it can make people take on far too much because they’re scared that if they turn one job down, that client will never contact them again. The problem with that is you’re likely to end up with far too much work and before you know it you’ll be working every weekend to keep up.

      As long as you’re polite about it I don’t think anyone reasonable will have a problem with you saying ‘I’m really sorry but I’m totally booked up at the moment – but please do keep me in mind if you have anything in the pipeline over the next few weeks/months’. Also, do you know any other freelancers in your area who do similar work? One thing I always found helpful was if I could say ‘I’m really sorry but I can’t take this one on – perhaps you could try David Jones, he’s very experienced and may have capacity for this [contact details]. And of course please do keep me in mind for any future projects’. People always seemed really receptive to that and it framed me in their minds as ‘really helpful even when she can’t take on a project herself’.

    8. DarthVelma*

      I think you did the right thing. If you take the last second work this time when you’ve already given them your needed time frame, they’ll expect you to do so every time.

      The only way I would have agreed would have involved charging a pretty steep premium for last minute, quick turnaround, weekend requests.

      1. Blue_eyes*

        Yes to your last sentence. If you have time, but it’s a quick turnaround on a weekend, tell them it’s a higher rate. If they’re willing to pay, you get more $$ and they get their work product in time. Otherwise they can wait or get things to you in a more timely manner. It may also teach them to get things to you sooner so they don’t have to pay the weekend price!

    9. deesse877*

      Hold the line!

      Think of it as a form of solidarity with other freelancers: you’re asking for respect for your time, the same kind of respect that is given to wage and salaried employees. By so doing, you are helping to uphold a professional norm. This principle, of course, doesn’t apply if the money is really needed, or if you have professional reasons for wanting a particular job. But if it’s a normal gig, the person was told your expectations, and they tried to cross the line regardless?

      Hold the line.

    10. Peacemaker*

      Personally, I would probably have done it, but I’ve never been very good about establishing firm boundaries, and I’ve felt the consequences from time to time. That having been said, I would probably have contacted the client and told them I could do it, but that weekend work costs more, and then increased my fee 1.5 or 2 times normal. Doing so would “share my pain” with the client, but also let them know I’m willing to make sacrifices when necessary to help them achieve their goals. Of course, YMMV.

    11. Lady Heather*

      If you have a boilerplate contract, terms/fees on your website, etc, add something like:

      Standard fee. Turnaround time: x weeks.
      Significantly higher fee. Turnaround time: y days. Emergency projects are contingent on Foreign Octopus’ availability and are not guaranteed to be accepted.
      (or something like that.)

      Don’t accept short turnaround time projects without charging for it – by charging more, you’re reinforcing that this is an exception and you’ll avoid this turnaround time becoming the new norm. By charging significantly more, you’re sharing your inconvenience with your clients and making them not want to give you close-deadline projects.
      And remember Alison’s often-repeated advice of that ‘I already have plans’ can be sitting on your couch with Netflix and Ben and Jerry’s. This is to lay out expectations to your clients – not to tie yourself to anything.

    13. Who Plays Backgammon?*

      The one time I gave in to a situation like this, I regretted it and vowed to never freelance again. I had a full time job by then, but a former colleague and client called with an emergency need. For weeks I turned my life inside out for him, drove home every lunch hour to check email and phone messages (gives you an idea how long ago that was), and did the equivalent of another full time job for some weeks to meet his crazy deadline–then he tried to knock me down on my rate, didn’t express a bit of appreciation, AND I had to wait months to get paid.

    14. Mina, The Company Prom Queen*

      Do not feel guilty at all. You told them what needed to happen in order for the job to be done by the Date or time they needed it. They disregarded that and then expected you to work over the weekend. Did they even ask what your weekend availability was? Clients who need something done by a certain date or time, and then disregard what they need to do on their end in order for that to happen but still want to hold you to their timeline need to experience the consequence of that.

  18. Wing Leader*

    I’ve been at my job for four years, and I have a coworker who says the exact same phrases to me every single day.

    In the morning when I come in, she says, “Good morning! I see you’re here bright and early.” (I’m just in at my normal time)

    When she goes to lunch, she says, “I’m going to lunch now. I’ll be gone for one hour. I’ve got my cellphone with me, so feel free to call if you need anything.”

    In the afternoon, she says, “Whew, I’m getting tired. Glad we only have a couple of hours to go!”

    On Fridays she says, “I’m so glad it’s Friday. It’s been a long week.”

    And so on and so on. She literally says the exact same things to me every day, and it’s driving me nuts. I just wish she would change it up or at least vary what she says a little.

          2. Zap R.*

            I don’t think it’s a Bethesda game. If it was a Bethesda game, she’d only say “Need something?”

    2. MeTwoToo*

      You work with an NPC. Obviously you are the main character in this game. The programming only goes so far. Maybe consider a side quest for variety?

    4. Tuckerman*

      Can you beat her to it? You see stand up to leave at noon, say, “have a nice lunch!” Or “Happy Friday!”

      1. Lucky*

        Take it one step further. Say “You’re going to lunch now. You’ll be gone for one hour. You’ve got your cellphone with you and I will call if I need anything.”

          1. valentine*

            No. It’s mean.

            I would let this go. She’s got her pleasantries down to a science and doesn’t fill the space with noise. You know exactly how many words you have to endure, and when. Yay.

        3. Mr. Shark*

          I wish I could “like” comments. I was going to say the same thing, Lucky. Beat her to the punch and say what she was going to say.

    5. I edit everything*

      Try replying with something completely off the wall, and see what happens. Something different every day:
      “I see you’re here bright and early.”
      “Yes, my bananas threw a tantrum at four a.m., so I figured I’d just come on in.”
      “I was afraid I’d be late today–I forgot to steep the rabbit last night.”
      “That’s so odd, because I didn’t leave the house until noon. I wonder if that glowing circle I drove through was actually a dimensional portal.”
      “Oh, I never left. I like to catch the cockroaches when the come out at night and snack on them.” (maybe not this one…)

    6. CastIrony*

      I have “scripts” similar to her. It helps me talk to people in general.

      Me: Hi! How are you?
      You: Good!
      Me (scripted):
      Option1: Well, that’s good.
      Option2: Well, that’s good to hear.

      1. Yarrow*

        I use scripts a lot too. They tend not to stand out as much as this person’s do (I think, I try to mix it up). I have also been referred to as an android.

      2. CM*

        Yeah, it reads to me like somebody who struggles to make conversation and memorized a few stock phrases to be friendly. It’s weird, but they’re probably trying really hard.

    7. Mkt*

      I feel like maybe I’m your coworker, but with different set of scripts. Not Neuro typical and these constants help me out.

      No real advice, but at least the scripts are all benign/positive. I’ve a coworker who is always negative and complainy- different words but effectively the same song on repeat. Doom and gloom and doesn’t do anything to change. Ugh!

    8. FormerFirstTimer*

      I have something similar with one of my coworkers. She won’t knock on a door, but she will say, “knock, knock”. I know its a small thing, but it drives me up a wall.

    9. Phoenix Wright*

      Is your name Truman Burbank, by any chance? You may want to sit down for a moment, there’s something important you need to know…

    10. K*

      It may just be how her conversation brain works. My grandfather is autistic and talks like this–every time we see him, he says the exact same thing in the exact same tone, word for word, until he finishes his “script.” It doesn’t matter if we respond in different ways, he will always say the same thing. We talk to him on the phone every Sunday and he also has a phone “script” where the beginning and the ending of the conversation are always exactly the same, and often most of the middle, although sometimes he varies it. She’s probably just trying to be nice and friendly!

    11. Arts Akimbo*

      There was an episode of The Office where Jim noted that Phyllis says the same 12 phrases every time it rains, and if she said them all before noon, he’d buy everyone hot chocolates. Maybe instead of being driven up the wall by it, you could celebrate by giving yourself a small treat? Make it fun!

    12. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      This is pretty standard BEC stuff. She’s just going through her routine, for whatever reason it may be. It happens. It’s like the one guy that used to come to get his paperwork every morning at one of my jobs and did a complete round of “Good morning” to everyone. And the ones who have the same go to phrases. You ask them how they are and their response, even if they saw a werewolf eating a squirrel right there in front of them their response stays the same. “Just living the dream.” stuff.

      At least all of these things are basic and pleasant. She’s not constantly complaining or anything, just awkward scripted interactions that she feels safe with.

    13. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      Reply with something “frame-challenging” now and then.

      “I see you’re here bright and early!”… ah, not really, I think it’s the usual time but today I’m here early because (invent something banal)… how come you’re here bright and early, huh?

      “Glad we only have a couple of hours to go!” … huh. Do you feel tired? Maybe it’s a bit stuffy in here… I wonder if we can adjust the air con? (or can I get you a cup of coffee? or anything else like that)

      “I’m so glad it’s Friday” … huh, I can’t wait for Monday myself. What about that?

  19. Elenia*

    Two of my staff quit in the last month. I’m starting to wonder if it’s me, hehe. I know it’s not – one of them moved to a position of more responsibility in the company, and another one was unhappy because of other reasons. Still!

    1. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      My experience is that staff turn-over happens in waves, with multiple people leaving for independent reasons. It kind of makes sense, because hiring tends to come in wave as well, so the timing of “Time to move on and up” can line up.

      1. Massmatt*

        Yes, I have experienced this also, sometimes it’s people all reaching a milestone at the same time, or they get poached by another employer. And sometimes it seems as though someone moving on just resets people’s psychological outlook “hmmm, I CAN try something different”.

        It’s a good time to make sure you are paying people what they deserve, and see if there are fixable issues that are frustrating people.

    2. Miss Vaaaanjie*

      You could have been my last boss, an Ex. Director (non-profit) with 8-mos in the position when two very long term staff left: one finally retired and another left due to the new ED and the Dev Director the new ED hired. Two months later, I left and a co-worker left due to the ED and the Dev Director.

      So in this case – it was the new ED and the new DD who influenced all our decisions to leave.

    3. Adric*

      I think part of it is most people expect randomness to be smoother than it is.

      For example if you were doing coin flips, obviously “HTHTHTHTHTHT” is an unreasonable sequence, but a lot of people would expect something like “HTTHTHHTTHHTHTT”. If you actually try it though, you’ll probably get something more like “HHTHHHTTTHTTTTHH”. There’s a lot more strings and clumps than you intuitively think there “should” be.

      As for resignations, you probably figure there’ll be one every year or two, but because they’re basically random you think “OK, sometimes it’ll go 3 years or maybe there’ll be 2 in six months.” What really happens is that you go 5 years without and then have 4 in 3 months.

      1. Chocolate Teapot*

        At one job, there were 4 resignations in 1 day, although 2 were in a couple.

        I had only been there for a few weeks!

  20. MOAS*

    If anyone wants a laugh — harmless practical joke played by coworkers. (I know a lot of ppl here don’t like pranks at the workplace and that’s cool but don’t bash me for posting this or enjoying this).

    A few months ago I moved seats and I changed my desktop background. My favorite aesthetic is a white background with colorful flowers. That was the pic I had up on my desktop.

    About a week went by and my boss burst out laughing. He said why do you have penises on your desktop?

    I….did not know they were penises. I just saw the flowers. I immediately found something else, flowers that were boss-approved.

    Everyone had a good laugh.

    Today I came in the morning and saw that my desktop was changed back to the penis-flowers! I was mystified as to how it happened! Turns out my coworker changed the desktop while I ahd stepped away and not locked the computer.

    I’ve had a rough week personally, so this was a goood way to start my Friday lol.

    1. Jen Mahrtini*

      You might have found this harmless, and it sounds like it was OK in your workplace, but that could easily be considered harassment. If done repeatedly, it could rise to hostile work environment, in the actual legal sense.

      1. T. Boone Pickens*

        Sweet. Buzz Killington popping in right in the first comment. Did you actually read MOAS’ comment?

        1. Librarian of SHIELD*

          Okay, but Jen’s actually right here. It’s one thing to change your coworker’s desktop image to like, My Little Pony or something, but pictures of penises in the workplace do actually count as sexual harassment.

          1. Alan*

            Actually no it doesn’t. I swear some people on here think that any reference to sex of any kind in the workplace is sexual harassment.

            1. MOAS*

              I’m sorry, I didn’t post this to start a discussion about sexual harassment in the workplace, and I am not going to argue whether this is or isn’t. I realize it was my mistake to mention “penis” on this post, but can we all please drop the sexual harassment comments and not gripe at each other? My post was not intended for that. Thank you.

        2. Mellow*

          And the peanut gallery chortles accordingly.

          Time to grow up and keep gallows humor outside the workplace.

          Not that hard to do.

      2. Mrs. Peaches*

        Yeah…changing someone’s background is harmless enough but you lost me at penises. No genitalia at work, please and thank you.

      3. Wing Leader*

        It wasn’t harassment. It was a silly joke, that’s all. How would you explain MOAS putting the background on first, that she was harassing herself?

        1. MOAS*

          Yea I didn’t realize that it was penises and not flowers until someone pointed it out and many others agreed so I removed it right away. It had already been saved on my desktop and I just never got around to tidying the desktop and removing unnecessary items (including that pic!) until today lol.
          It’s now back to the very safe actual flowers.

        2. Librarian of SHIELD*

          MOAS chose the image accidentally. The coworker who played the prank chose it on purpose. That’s the difference. In general, I think changing a person’s desktop image can be a fun and innocent prank. But choosing an image that contains or looks like genitalia on purpose? Not innocent. I’m glad MOAS had a good laugh about it, but I wouldn’t recommend it in general for fun workplace shenanigans.

          1. MOAS*

            Oh I definitely agree w you–in any other office or team, I would never do this. But we’re relaxed here and a lot of us joke around about everything and some (not me) have occasionally played jokes (not genitalia related but other pranks). Working 50-60h a week people need to laugh at stuff.

    2. WellRed*

      A bunch of us once took a group photo and put it as the screensaver of another coworker while he was out to lunch. When he logged back on, there were our smiling faces.

    3. Amy Sly*

      I don’t mind pranks like that. At a finance job I had, the normal “forgot to lock your computer” prank was to flip the orientation of the monitor — only takes a couple of keystrokes if you know the shortcut.

      1. Kat in VA*

        We’re required to lock our screens if we leave our desks (ITAR regulations, federal government stuff, whee).

        So.many.people “forget” to do this that BossMan will lean over and lock their screens for them if he passes by. We’re currently hatching a plan to do something just like MOAS described (minus the penis flowers – probably just a pic of BossMan or me grinning insanely at the owner as their background).

    4. Bubbles*

      I actually really want to see the penis flowers. Not because they are penises but because I wonder how obvious it is!

      One of our administrators is known for being a lowkey prankster. He’s so serious and dedicated that a lot of people don’t realize he is the one doing stuff. Another administrator left her computer unlocked one evening so he went in and changed the background to kittens. He would do this every day for almost a week… she got on the phone with tech support because she thought she had a virus.

      1. Massmatt*

        There was a letter or comment here about a boss who wanted to impress the importance of locking workstations upon employees so whenever he came across one he would open their email, and send an email with “I LOVE YOU!” to a random employee. People quickly got into the habit of locking their workstations.

        2. Windchime*

          In our workgroup, we send a message from the offender’s account saying something like, “Hi, I would love to bring treats for the whole office since I left my computer unlocked. Love, Windchime”. It’s all in good fun and it keeps us in snacks.

    5. Havarti*

      So it was actually penises? Like made into kaleidoscope flowers? Even if they weren’t, people see what they want to see. We used to joke in art class that everything was a phallic symbol. That obelisk? Phallic symbol. That pencil on the desk? Sideways phallic symbol.

      2. Chronic Overthinker*

        must resist urge to google penis flowers at work. OMG, I could get into so much trouble!!! LOL

        1. ampersand*

          I googled it in incognito mode–and the results I found are actually quite pretty (they resemble roses; it’s tasteful for what it is). You can’t tell they’re penises until you look closely; from afar you’d think flowers. I did look this up on my phone, and on a computer monitor they’d obviously be larger…but I can see how the initial design is attractive and if you’re not necessarily *looking* for penises you may miss that that’s what they are.

          And on a related note, that is one paragraph I never thought I would write!

          1. LunaLena*

            I sooooo want to Google this now, but I have a bad feeling it would lead me down a hysterical rabbit hole of penis flowers, and I still have a mound of work to do before the weekend starts…

          2. New Bee*

            Same (though I forgot to go incognito…whoops), and I wouldn’t know they were penises unless someone told me.

    7. Arctic*

      That’s hilarious!

      I love that you didn’t notice they were penises the first time around. That is soooo something I would do.

    10. Close Bracket*

      Oh, is that the blue and white line drawing pattern? That one is subtle.

      I kind of think we need a link, but I guess providing one would be sexual harassment. :)

      1. MOAS*

        lol honestly I forgot what search terms I used originally — i think it was something like colorful flowers on a white background, but it was buried on page 2 or 3. It’s been about a year now so I really can’t remember.

    11. The Other Dawn*

      Haha that’s funny. It sounds like you have a laid-back office and boss, and that this little prank helped lift your spirits a bit.

    12. bunniferous*

      I googled in incognito mode. First, these were definitely discreet, so discreet that I absolutely could see how these could be posted accidentally.

      Second of all: you can get this pattern for a throw pillow. Not even kidding.

      (TBH these were only slightly more offensive than a Georgia OKeefe painting, if you get what I am saying. If there was ever such a thing as a non offensive penis pattern this would be it.)

  21. Samantha Jones*

    I start a new job Monday!!

    When you start a new job, what should you do on the first day, first week and first month for a good impression and to show confidence without overstepping? For example, anything you can do to get proper expectations from your boss, team and other coworkers, setting a routine, how to ask what other departments do, etc.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      Honestly, I feel I’ve overstepped at a lot of jobs, and that’s okay. I think part of being new is learning stuff, and part of being a boss is letting new hires know to correct when that happens. Every company has a different culture and a different way of doing things or making changes. You’ll have to make mistakes and learn.

    2. Legally a Vacuum*

      I find that regularly check-ins about privatizations/time spent was helpful. “I focused on XYZ this week, do you want me to adjust going forward?” It shows initiative but also willingness to learn and adapt.

    3. AppleStan*

      Do a quick search on the site because I feel like Alison *just* addressed this either this week or last week.

      But basically, I would say get a good night’s rest the night before, show up about 10 minutes early, don’t bring anything on the first day to “personalize” your space.

      Allow yourself to slowly get the lay of the land – learning the inner dynamics of an office can be tricky!

      Don’t hesitate to ask questions, and carry a small (think pocket-sized) notebook with you so you can jot down things to yourself…it’s REALLY easy to think you’re going to remember it all…you won’t.

      Feel free to ask your immediate supervisor questions about office-norms. For instance, if you get an hour lunch, great, but is it expected that lunch is 12 – 1 or are they flexible on that? I once worked in a place that had a hearing run very long so I unexpectedly ended up working through lunch and beyond, so I didn’t get to actually go eat until 2 pm. I came back at 3 pm and the “uber” boss was in my office because someone had “complained” that I was gone. Uh, yeah, because I was hungry and I had to work through lunch. I was informed that taking lunch at that time was inappropriate. Yeah…..that one incident taught me quite a bit about that office’s culture very early on.

      Maybe after the first or second week (you’ll have a better understanding of what will work for your office after you’re there) just check in with your supervisor – “Am I going in the direction you want me to go?” or something similar. I guess I’m saying until you’re comfortable enough in the job to judge on your own that if you’re meeting your performance goals, don’t be afraid to step up and ask if you’re on track.

    4. Solar powered*

      Take notes. Concentrate on learning the role and the actual processing for the job. Work friends will come later as you get the feel for place.

    5. new kid*

      Listen. Absorb. Show that you’re committed to understanding the full context of something before you try to suggest any process improvements. True confidence is willingness to hang back at first, imo. People who come in hot without the context to know what they’re talking about actually end up looking either arrogant or insecure, in my experience. May vary by industry, but every job has some amount of learning curve, so no one expects you to come in on day one and blow them away with your brilliant ideas.

      1. Mina, The Company Prom Queen*

        Yes- and if you attend any client meetings, it’s also best to listen and observe. Don’t blurt out an idea the client might love, but is outside the context or scope of what your team does and then messes everything up for your team and causes a lot of grief and tension. (I didn’t do that but have seen that happen.)

    6. Alianora*

      Write things down, and when you have a question try to come up with a solution yourself before you ask.

      I do encourage people to ask lots of questions, but I also want to see that they’re learning. If they ask me the same question over and over, even after I’ve made sure to write the answer down for them, it really makes me lose faith in their problem-solving abilities. Or it makes me think they need hand holding at every step.

    9. introverted af*

      One thing I did when I started a new job last October was explicitly ask – “what are your 30/60/90 day goals for me and what should I be focusing on in those time periods?” We already had a pretty good training schedule to go over stuff like, what’s in our database, different tools we use and how or when to use them, regular tasks I have, so this way I was able to orient myself outside of those trainings or to know what was worth bumping up or not worth pressing on if someone didn’t get back to me about a topic we were supposed to discuss.

      I was also moving to a personal assistant position from having never done that before, so I found it was helpful to have regular check ins to make sure I was on track and discuss what I was learning. If we couldn’t do an actual meeting in my team lead’s office, I would send him an email with everything I wanted to bring up and my questions, and he could respond or send me other things he wanted me to know. I also tried to save up questions I had for particular people – I tried to hit my peer resource once a day or less with questions, same for my supervisors or training staff (unless we were obviously going back and forth on email or something).

      For me, if I can write something down and take notes, I internalize a lot better, and my job has a fair amount of regular processes, so I started an “instructions” section in my notebook that I take everywhere, with the steps for basic tasks I do frequently. I would go through the task once with some help, then try to do it by myself as much as I could the next time but get my work checked, then before I started the 3rd time I would review the steps with someone first, and then generally I knew what I was doing. If I didn’t, I let whoever I was asking know, and asked them to help me go over it so I figured it out and had everything written down correctly and wasn’t going to miss anything else.

  22. Working While Depressed*

    Hi everyone. I was hoping you had some tips for me about starting a new job in the middle of a depressive episode.

    I started a temp-to-hire job in January. I have pretty severe depression and could tell I was declining already, but I was addressing it with my doctors and had it under control. Fast forward to now. I do not actually have it under control. All I want to do is sleep. I can’t motivate myself to do work up to my usual standards. I’m taking advantage of my flexible schedule to leave early (and come in early, since my depression comes with insomnia). When I’m actually at work, I barely do anything. Yes, I am working with my doctors, but it’s a process that takes time, and right now I feel like my job is precarious. No one has said anything to me about my performance, but I’m sure it’s noticeable.

    Any advice for me?

    1. Zap R.*

      Dry shampoo, baby wipes, and (if you are so inclined) tinted lip balm will make you feel at least presentable on days where you’re too tired to shower and put a face on. Go for walks at lunch and set up rituals that you can look forward to each day (eg. making tea at 2:30, reading a good book on the train, having a yap with your favourite coworker)

    2. CheeryO*

      Captain Awkward has an amazing article that I’ve re-read many times over the years – Google “How to tighten up your game at work when you’re depressed.” It’s all easier said than done, of course, and I know it’s harder when you’re at a new job and are trying to prove yourself to people who don’t have a baseline for your quality of work, but I think she gives some really good, practical tips.

      1. Havarti*

        Yes, definitely check CA’s site. Came here to recommend it. I hope things get better for you soon, OP.

    3. Fiona*

      Can you give a generic heads-up to your supervisor that you’re dealing with a health issue that is being addressed with your doctors? Mental health = health. People might be willing to cut you some slack if you proactively come to them and let them know this is a temporary slump and that (most importantly) you are acknowledging the situation. Best of luck and good for you for being so self-aware! This too shall pass.

    4. WineNot*

      Would you consider telling your employer? I know you are new there, but if the amount of work you aren’t doing is noticeable, they are probably concerned. Also, they might turn out to be really accommodating and understanding!

    5. Sled dog mana*

      I was in a similar situation a few years ago. I knew that my 90 day review was going to fall about 5 days after the 1 year anniversary of my daughter’s death. I was totally upfront with my supervisor, partly because I couldn’t take any PTO during those 90 days and because I didn’t want him to think I was slacking off because the 90 day probation was up.
      He was great and cut me a lot of slack, as long as Important Things were done properly and on time then it was ok to let minor things go a little. This also worked in my favor a few months later because he felt comfortable that I would be ok with him approaching me about my mental health (just a quick “hey you ok you seem not yourself”) which prompted a visit to the doctor who needed to adjust my meds.
      I wouldn’t say tell everyone but if you have a supervisor who you can approach and you trust to keep it in confidence then tell them and that you are already seeing a professional.
      Also if you have any seasonal component at all evaluate your workspace, I went from basement office with lots of lightning to ground floor with not so much lighting and will never forget how much of a difference a desk lamp made.

  23. Bend & Snap*

    I posted here that I was laid off at the end of January. This week I accepted an offer for a director level job!

    3. Bunny Girl*

      I am very tired and I read dictator level job and I was like Oh! Well… Do what you do.

      Congratulations!

  24. Pusheen*

    Not sure if this is work or personal but it’s about a coworker so?

    I had a dream about one of them and I can’t shake it off. The dream was really bad, think a violent movie. It was vivid at the time but I couldn’t remember any details as soon as I woke up. 

    This person sits near me, we joke around and I assign work to him occasionally. I have no problems with him and I’ve never gotten bad vibes from him. It’s just…egh. 

    1. Turtlewings*

      Yikes, that’s awkward! Maybe go out of your way to have some pleasant interactions with him in the next few days — jokes, coffee, whatever. Try to overwrite the memory of the dream with better memories from reality.

    2. I edit everything*

      I remember reading somewhere that if you tell someone about your dream, it will stop bothering you. Maybe now that you’ve told us, you’ll be able to move on.

    3. Buni*

      I’ve had the opposite, the luuuurve dream over someone I was not remotely attracted to. Aaaall the awkward, and me spending a whole day muttering to myself “It only happened in your head. It only happened in your head. And I don’t even know why”.

      1. JanetM*

        Oh, gosh — I had the inverse of that. There was someone with whom I did volunteer work to whom I was very attracted; I also knew he was monogamously married. Over a period of a few months, I had repeated dreams about how awful it would be if I made a pass at him, and how it would destroy everyone’s lives. I eventually convinced my subconscious to shut up, that I have better manners than that.

    4. Leslie Knope*

      I had a dream last night that my boss was talking to me through the bathroom stall while I was trying to do my business. And then when I came out of the bathroom they had re-hired the coworker who recently quit (who I was glad to see go). It was not a happy dream. So, I feel your awkward pain.

      I agree with others that you need to have a new pleasant interaction in order to rewrite that weird memory.

    5. Quill*

      I get nightmares all the time that feature a variety of people. One of the things that keeps me from dwelling on them is the anti-anxiety meds, but also actively finding other things to think about: for example, podcasts while doing data entry, etc.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      Okay this is a weird comment, so bear with me.

      Is it possible that you could have transposed someone? Do you have anyone in your life who is giving you a hard time? Or have you had someone in the past who gave you a hard time?

      There is a thing where we can put scary characteristics on to benign people in our dreams. It is easier to face the characteristics without seeing the actual person. So seeing the violence plus seeing the actual person who did this to you or yours would be over the top. But seeing benign coworker doing the same violent thing allows us to address/process an issue where we other wise would not address the issue.

      Because the human mind can come up with all kinds of stuff, you may have another cohort who is worrisome OR this dream could be all about a cohort in the past who was worrisome.

      In yet another odd twist once I have clearly identified who the worrisome person is, many times the dream will just stop. Cold, hard stop. If we don’t deal with stuff in real life sometimes we end up sorting it out in our dreams.

    7. Fake Old Converse Shoes (not in the US)*

      I’m with you. I keep dreaming of someone at work. He’s like a CLAMP character come to life, tall, elegant, with eyelashes so long some people may kill for them… But he’s an asshole that loves trashing one of my work friends. Worse of all, every dream with him is super shojo (sans flower backgrounds and petals in the air), and I’m angry with my brain for choosing such a problematic person to feature them.

  25. Spills*

    I have an update from last week! I was the commenter who had accepted a new job offer but was waiting for my Q4 commission check to be paid before giving notice and worried about the timelines.

    Just wanted to give a quick update that the check was received yesterday (a day earlier than anticipated) and I’ll be giving notice on Monday! My new job was very understanding and I can’t wait to get started. Thanks to everyone for your advice!

      1. Clare*

        Fab! It might be different in the UK, but cheques take a few days to clear here and can be stopped by the issuing party. I’m sure you’re already aware if it’s a thing in the US, but might it be worth asking the bank at what point the cheque can’t be recalled by the issuer? Do hope I’m not raining on your parade? Am so thrilled for you and good luck in your new job.

    6. Stormy Weather*

      That’s fabulous! Best of luck on your new job. I’m glad they were willing to wait for you.

  26. Inga*

    Just needing to vent. I’m leaving this job in a few months, and I think the best thing I can do to cope for now is just tell other people about how insane it is. It’s a small student health clinic and the receptionist put up a red stop sign that reads “STOP. PLEASE WAIT HERE UNTIL CALLED FORWARD.” to block the path from students walking up to the reception desk. I understand the concerns for multiple students and privacy, but she enforces it even when nobody else is in the office. Students have to stand in the hall awkwardly until she decides to pay them any attention.

    2. Amy Sly*

      This kind of behavior by customer service people gets whistling, humming, and “In the Air Tonight”-esque drum solos on the counter. I won’t demand service, but I’m quite happy to return obnoxiousness with obnoxiousness.

      1. Inga*

        I often wish I could coach the students on how to push back against this kind of stuff, but most of them don’t know any better than to accept it since they’ve never visited a medical office on their own before.

    3. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      She may well be a jerk on a power trip, but also, privacy standards in a lot of health care organizations do ask that patients wait at a certain point until called up to the desk because the person working the desk may be working with PHI from other patients, and they have to make sure the workspace is cleared of other people’s protected info before they call a patient up, it’s not JUST that other physical people in the office might hear something.

      1. Senor Montoya*

        Sure, but the sign doesn’t have to be so unfriendly. That’s the kind of thing that makes students go away and not come back, the kind of thing that gives a health center a bad reputation around campus. We had this kind of problem in our counseling center, not helped by big signs that sternly stated that payment was required upfront (in fact, there were so many exceptions to this “rule” that it was inaccurate) and receptionists who were frosty with the students. (Some of that was bad workflow in the office.) New director changed all of it. A much nicer place to send students in need.

        It also sounds like they need to give some thought to where students wait, do they need chairs in the hall, do they need to change how they do intake? do they need to work with the receptionist on communication skills?

        At a minimum, change the sign: For privacy: please wait here. Thank you!

        1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

          True, the sign can definitely be worded better! It didn’t sound like the sign was the point of contention, rather the complaint seemed to be about the fact that the receptionist made people abide by it even when the waiting room was empty, is all. :)

          1. Inga*

            This is just the latest in a long list of bizarre choices in this office, so I focused on one thing. This receptionist has a history of giving students such a hard time that they get into the provider’s room and burst into tears. She’s also routinely stopped talking to other staff members over some perceived slight. Management has turned a blind eye to all of it. It’s definitely more of a control issue than real concern for patient privacy. She leaves papers out on her desk all day and never locks anything away at the end of the day. I could go on all day…. which is a big reason of why I will be gone in a few months.

          2. Megan*

            I’m not seeing what is wrong with the wording. I guess adding a thank you would soften it, but otherwise I really am missing what is wrong with “please wait here”.

    4. NJBi*

      Ugh, that’s so annoying! My university’s health clinic had a sign like that essentially to remind students to stay back past that distance or they’d overhear someone else’s private medical information, but you could walk right up to reception if there wasn’t someone there already! Also there was a nice, small waiting area so that you didn’t have to stand immediately in the path of the hallway if you weren’t called yet. Fingers crossed someone with the authority to tell her to lay off notices and is appropriately befuddled by why she’s having students stand around in the hall if there’s nobody at her desk.

      1. Inga*

        Oh no, it seems like I’m the only one who thinks this is a poor choice. The director embraces it. One of the providers saw it for the first time and enthusiastically called out, “Oh! Nice!!” Our students routinely bash our office on social media and it’s always brushed off. I’ve learned that it’s pointless to voice these concerns.

        1. blackcat*

          My college health center had a similar sign (big red stop sign look), but it was coupled with a few more things, including a mask-wearing emoji and the text:

          “STOP!
          Are you coughing today? If so, mask-up!
          Please wait here to be called to the desk.”

          The sign was perched on a little table that had the masks, tissues, and hand sanitizer. Somehow the first thing being about putting on a mask softens it.

    5. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      The “not paying any attention” part is what needs addressing / thinking about (if you give any brain space to this at all), rather than the sign itself. There are all kinds of places where “please wait to be called forward” (yes, even if there isn’t a queue!) is the standard way to wait.

      If she is deliberately doing ‘whatever’ rather than see people who are waiting to be seen… as I say, that’s the part to be looked into.

      You wouldn’t just walk up into the queue behind someone speaking to a cashier at the bank would you? for example.

  27. Nicole*

    Looking for advice on how picky to be when job searching.

    I’m in a job that gave me some amazing experience, hugely increased responsibilities, and really made me feel ready to take a step forward with my career. I was in fact talking to my boss about moving into a management positions….but through the course of the work I was doing, I saw some serious problems with my organization – all of the managers were seriously overworked, people were going on stress leave left, right and centre, and I was told the expectation would include working weekends and holidays. I also nearly burned out myself – despite being constantly told I was allowed to say “no”, anytime I tried to push back on unreasonable deadlines, I was told no.

    I am now looking elsewhere, because the current environment isn’t sustainable. I know I have the skills and experience to take a step up, but I also know I need to get out of my current company before I really burn out. As a result, I am struggling with my job search. Do I apply for a job that I know I could do, but that I’m not really excited for and would be a step backwards in terms of accountability etc? (It wouldn’t necessarily look like a step backwards on paper because my current company never promoted me). Or do I wait it out to look for a leadership role or something else that gets me excited?

    My partner thinks I should just worry about getting out, and if the next role doesn’t work out, move again. But right now I have stellar references and history of great performance – I’m worried about moving into something I’m only so-so at and potentially making myself look like a less attractive candidate if they move doesn’t work out.

    1. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      My approach has been to apply to anything that’s 50% there for me. A few thoughts that I remind myself when looking at a job:

      -A job application does not guarantee a job interview, much less a job offer
      -A job offer is not a a commitment from you to take the job
      -You can’t learn enough about the job just from the description, so don’t discount a job because it isn’t a 100% fit

      1. Mkt*

        I love this advice. So true, and there are so many intangibles that you can’t see from a job posting that may elevate what the opportunity can mean as well.

        Good luck!

    3. CoffeeLover*

      I don’t apply for a huge number of roles, but I tend to have between a 1/5 to 1/10 success rate when it comes to getting called into an interview (the latter was when I moved to a new country). And so far I’d say I have about a 1/3 offer per interview rate. My max time job hunting was 3 months.

      My rambley point is that I don’t apply to that many jobs, and instead I put more effort in my application to the jobs I’d actually want to do. Applying to more jobs while putting in less effort per application doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll get more interviews. I like to set up weekly notifications of new job postings (posted in the last week) on linkedin for the relevant job titles. Then I look through each one and apply to the ones that I can get excited about. Do it consistently for a month or two and you’ll have an offer.

      I don’t believe you should take a step down, UNLESS there’s something you gain in the process. Ie if you want to change industries, you might need to do a lateral or slightly downward move to do it. Or if you’re really really desperate to move on AND financially in a crunch.

      Of course, there is such a thing as too picky, so you really need to drill down into what’s important for you and where you can be flexible. My rule of thumb was to apply to 3 jobs per week. It feels like a good number for the average role, so if you can’t do that then maybe you need to re-evaluate your requirements.

    4. Artemesia*

      I’d cast my net widely in hopes of options and interviews but be very pick about actually accepting new position until you have something you really want. You have the luxury of not having to jump immediately.

      1. A Person*

        I agree with this totally!

        My experience: I went with a job that didn’t seem like the best fit to me (a bit of a step down, I went from managing 1 person back to Senior) because they lobbied super hard to hire me and my company was closing in a few months. Since I was doing ok financially, I regretted it – it ended up feeling like a year wasted, I didn’t like the person who became my manager (who I didn’t get along with well in the interview), and when I got the next job afterwards it seemed like I could have gotten it without the year of “lower” work.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      Your partner is a very supportive person.

      I think keep looking with the idea that you are looking for reasonable people. Now is not a really great time to be concerned about how the resume looks. I agree with your partner that if your aim is off a little you can correct it later.

      Figure out what warning flags you missed with this place and focus on getting to a safer place to be. This isn’t a waste of time. It’s okay to set a goal of learning what went awry and working to avoid that again. This learning is something that you will use over and over as you go through your career.

      One thing I did that was helpful was to read advice for the INTERVIEWER. I found it instructive to think about what a good company would do to make the best hire. Think about this, we have to watch the interviewer to see how they handle things. Do we even know how they should be handling things?

    3. Inga*

      Maybe you can keep yourself awake by crafting plans to re-design your local roadways to be as frustrating and congested as possible ;)

        1. Jules the 3rd*

          But it only takes a couple of trips to the planning department, and one dark and rainy night, a crucial shift in stakes at the construction site, and the resulting wall of flame is So Cool!

          Right up until two middle-aged bodies with three spirits fly through it on a scooter.

  29. Sarah-tonin*

    Hi All.

    Earlier this week, I made a not-great mistake at work (I work part-time at this library, and this is my second permanent librarian job so I don’t have a ton of experience yet). Basically, we had a patron come in asking for help doing something on the computer. But he didn’t know how to use a computer and he was hard of hearing and also didn’t want to do what I instructed (he just sat there). Our library does not provide one-on-one help. We can get people started but that’s it. (There are ways to deal with this, and other libraries to send them to that do that kind of help, but I didn’t know that at the time and didn’t know how to say no, so I helped him way more than I should have.)

    This lead to me getting really frustrated (I think mostly because he wouldn’t do anything, like I’ve had people who don’t know computers before and they’ve been willing to try). I had to yell so he could hear me, but my tone came out really frustrated, which is a huge, major no. There were about 10 other people on other computers who heard me, one of whom was a board member (which I didn’t know). My boss was also near me checking something unrelated and heard me, and I’m sure other staff and people heard cause sound travels.

    My boss called me into her office and we talked about the situation, why it happened, and how to avoid it in the future. Basically, she knows that frustrations happen but that it wasn’t a great look for me or the library. She was relatively cool about it, like I don’t think I could have asked for a better reaction from a boss, and we’re going to meet once a month to talk about things (I don’t see her a ton due to scheduling). This isn’t going in my file or anything. I’m not glad this happened, but now I have tools to deal with it in the future.

    But I still feel awful and embarrassed. I hope people who overheard know that we’re all human and sometimes mistakes happen (I did help at least one other person on the computers after the incident). My boss (and I hope my coworkers) know me well enough to know that this isn’t how I act all the time, that it was kind of a perfect storm.

    I sent my boss a message soon after our conversation saying that I really appreciated her taking the tine to talk to me, and that I’m grateful to have tools and tips to better handle things like this going forward.

    Is there anything else I can do?

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      The best thing you can do now is forgive yourself for having a human reaction to a frustrating situation and let it go. It sounds like your conversation with your boss went well, and that you responded appropriately to the immediate ramifications. The people who overheard you will have likely already forgotten about it, and so long as you work hard to not let it happen again, you will be fine :)

      1. Turtlewings*

        Agreed, the best thing you can do now is move on and not call more attention to the incident by continuing to bring it up.

        Fwiw, that does sound like an incredibly frustrating situation, exacerbated by you being new and just not knowing you had better options. When I worked in a public library, trying to help people with the computers was by far the worst part of the job. I still remember one woman who seemed to regard it as my own personal fault that she didn’t know how to do things. I’m glad your boss handled it well, and I feel certain you will learn from the mistake. That’s the best anyone can do.

        1. Sarah-tonin*

          honestly sometimes it feels like i went to library school just to help people on computers, or to sit at the desk and watch people on the computers because we don’t get many reference questions. our computers were down earlier this week for at least a few hours and the place was dead, because a lot of people use them. (which was actually really nice for me, a good break.)

          ugh, we get people like the woman you mentioned all the time. they expect that we’ll know how to fix everything, or know all the answers. which is nice, that they think that, but also. there’s only so much we can do, and know, and some stuff really is not in our wheelhouse (i.e.: phone problems).

          i am so glad my boss handled it well, too. i’ve had bosses who would get a lot more upset over a lot less.

          thank you for this.

          1. valentine*

            Decide what you’ll do next time this or something else comes up where your instinct is to go above and beyond when that’s not SOP. So someone has never used a computer. Well, that problem is too big for you. You’ll politely tell them what? Or someone wants you to break a rule or to do things that aren’t your job. Write little scripts so that, when the moment arrives, you’ll recognize it and pull out the stop sign instead of sliding down a bottomless well.

            1. Sarah-tonin*

              oh man, i LOVE scripts and this idea! even if a script won’t help the situation 100% of the time, i think even just planning out what i should say will help.

      2. Sarah-tonin*

        Thank you. :) the only thing that wasn’t great about our convo was that I cried. But I’m the type of person who cries easily and over everything, not just when I’m sad or in trouble.

        But I am working hard to not let this happen again, especially now that I have tools and other resources to help me.

        1. SI*

          I worked in the library on campus during library school. Learned to deal with all sorts of situations, from students crying because they couldn’t find the right section of the library or operate the compact shelving, to members of the public that had severe mental illness. Oh the stories I could tell you.

          You’ll figure it out and sometimes, it’s better to let your supervisor deal with a difficult patron.

          1. Sarah-tonin*

            i wish they gave us more hands-on training on what to do in these difficult situations. i learned way more on the job than i did in library school.

            but going forward, i won’t be afraid to pass someone off to my supervisor if needed (and if she’s here).

    2. Dust Bunny*

      Library employee here, although in a different setting. Mercifully, I mostly work through email or I’d have bitten off more than a few heads by now.

      Forgive yourself, and ask for clarification on procedures for difficult patrons like this so you feel more confident about handling the next one, and so you feel–at least I hope you feel–that you have your boss’ permission to do whatever it is you’re supposed to do when it looks like a patron expects more of your time than you’re supposed to give. I’m in an academic library and some patrons expect us to do actual research for them, which is not my job. I am very specifically not supposed to spend more than (it varies somewhat, depending on the situation) amount of time on a given request; beyond that, they need to hire a proxy researcher or come in and do the work themselves.

      1. Dust Bunny*

        OMG I just remembered: We used to have an older patron who did not use email (this was only a couple of years ago) and insisted on calling when he wanted something, but was hard of hearing. Very hard of hearing. But then he’d get mad at you for shouting into the phone at him instead of enunciating more clearly. But if you enunciated, you couldn’t be loud enough.

        He wasn’t mean but helping him with stuff was exhausting. My boss finally insisted that he [boss] be allowed to take this person’s calls whenever he [boss] was in (boss often has meetings in other parts of the building) so the rest of us didn’t have to deal with him.

        1. Sarah-tonin*

          your patron sounds exhausting. i’m glad your boss was able to field his questions so you all didn’t have to.

          my boss is supportive in us not being superheroes (all i meant by that is she knows we have limits) and also not helping someone for more than a little bit of time (like you, it varies). and if we had a patron who we couldn’t help, we could call her. problem is, that doesn’t help for nights and weekends, when we have limited staff.

    3. Muriel Heslop*

      I am a public school teacher (and a department head) and I do something that I am embarrassed or angry with myself about almost every day. Dealing with people is hard, and when you are learning how to do it it’s even harder. Give yourself some grace and keep growing and learning. You will be great!

    4. Washi*

      Aw, don’t beat yourself up! I used to work in HR at a university that had a computer kiosk set up for people to submit job applications if they don’t have a computer at home. However, our online system required an email address, and the majority of people who needed to use a computer also were folks who did not have emails or really have much in the way of computer skills (one person didn’t even know how to use a mouse.)

      So instead of just pulling up the portal and briefly showing people how to make an account, I was sometimes spending an hour with someone trying to explain what an email is and how the email password is not the same as the job portal password, etc, often with them getting frustrated with me because I wasn’t allowed to accept paper applications. I was definitely not as patient as I would like to have been, and there were a couple times where I cried in the bathroom afterward from the sheer frustration of the position I was in, how hard it was to help people, and how difficult it was for me to be patient.

      I say all this to hopefully illustrate that you are far from alone in your reaction, and probably a lot of people listening understood why you were frustrated. What has helped me move past it is to ask myself “what did I learn about myself and this situation? How can I do better next time” and to try to look at it as an opportunity to work on something I struggle with.

      1. Sarah-tonin*

        thank you for sharing. this is for sure a learning experience. this isn’t the first time i’ve been frustrated, but i can usually keep it in check. not that day, though.

    5. LibGuideMeIntoTheWeekend*

      Another librarian here! It happens. We’re just human after all. And the great news is now you’re empowered with knowledge about how to handle it differently in the future.

      A self-talk check in that has helped me greatly in my feedback loops of feeling bad about things: Is this something that you’ll still be obsessing about and beating yourself up about in a week’s time? A month’s time? Next year? Don’t give this event more emotional weight than it necessitates.

      Public facing librarianship is not quiet nerds reading all day like many people think. It’s a TON of customer service that necessitates a LOT of emotional labor. Make sure you don’t let yourself get bogged down in it or you’ll burn out quickly.

      1. Sarah-tonin*

        thank you for this. i’m glad i posted this, i’ve been getting responses that are so helpful. :)

        but yeah, being a librarian is actually really hard, because it’s so much customer service. and people can be so entitled – like last week was program registration, and our online registration was down. nothing we could do, it was out of our hands and all we could do was wait. but people were so mad, because our programs fill up fast. and one person even said we should get shut down. because they couldn’t register for programs. like, we do a lot of stuff, most of it for free, and i just wish people would appreciate us a bit more? this isn’t related to the post, but lemme tell you, when i was in library school, i did not expect to get screamed at because people couldn’t register for programs that very second.

        1. Librarian of SHIELD*

          I feel you on this. We had a one-day glitch a couple weeks back where our checkout software couldn’t communicate with outside software programs, so nobody could check out eBooks. Most people were fairly understanding about it but to read some of the emails we received, you would have thought we had broken into these peoples homes and stolen their kindles from them!

          I’m going to pass on the best librarianing advice I’ve ever received. When customers thank you or compliment you, write it down. When you’re mentioned positively on a comment card or an online post, make a copy. Put all those compliments in a file folder at your desk. Then, when you have experiences like the one you had this week and everything goes wrong and you feel like the worst librarian ever, pull out your folder. Read through all the nice things customers have had to say about you. Remind yourself of all the people you’ve helped and all the good you’ve done in your community. Having an off day doesn’t make you a failure, it makes you a human. You’ve got this, Sarah-tonin. :)

          2. Sarah-tonin*

            i know what you mean! most people with our issue were understanding. there really wasn’t anything we could do, the issue wasn’t something on our end, but not everyone understood (or wanted to understand) that. like, i do get why they were upset, but things do happen and not everything is going to be perfect 100% of the time.

            but omg i LOVE this idea too! :D even just thinking about all the good interactions i’ve had is so helpful. i know i’m not horrible at my job, and thinking of the good is always a help.

        2. AnotherLibrarian*

          You have to let this one go. I know it’s hard. I know it is. God, I know. But if you let yourself fall into the trap of thinking that you should be appreciated more than you will burn out. I’m sorry you have a rough one. It’s hard. There’s a reason I don’t work in public libraries. Deep Breaths and Librarian of SHIELD’s advice about a folder is a great idea. I print out and keep thank you cards I get from patrons and stick them to my wall in my office. Just a little reminder that you can do this.

          1. Sarah-tonin*

            honestly i’m looking for a full-time librarian job that is not in public libraries and situations like this are why. helping people sign on to computers and print things all day and getting yelled at when something goes wrong (situation in a comment above) isn’t what i went to grad school for.

            thank you. <3

        3. Vote Blue No Matter Who*

          Assuming you work at a public library, many programs may not charge a fee but somebody pays for them. Those “free” programs are likely paid for with mostly or all government funds. And those are only possible because of taxpayers. I pay several hundred dollars a year in property taxes allocated to my local library system, but I haven’t set foot in the library for 20 years. Not trying to pick on you, but wanting to point out there is no free lunch.

          1. BrotherFlounder*

            Yes, that’s true, but that fact gets used as a weapon against librarians by a lot of very entitled people who scream “my taxes pay your salary!” They think it gives them a huge say in how things are run or that it should give them the right to demand anything they want, and they want it all right now. So, just pointing out that this might not be the best thing to say to a librarian. They know.

          2. tangerineRose*

            You’re missing out by not checking out the library. As well as books, they loan DVD’s, CD’s, and sometimes board games.

            1. Blueberry*

              I dunno, do we want to encourage someone who would pull out “my taxes pay your salary!” as a verbal club to beat the librarians with to go there?

              1. Sarah-tonin*

                I also don’t know why people feel the need to tell me that they haven’t been in the library in 10+ years. like, okay? are you bragging or something? libraries (and librarians!0 roles have changed big time.

    6. Public Facing Librarian*

      You are doing fine. You are learning and reflecting.
      One good tool when a patron is frustrating is to look at the clock. Say out loud in a firm but quiet voice. I am trying to help but this might be beyond me (the beyond part is not questioning your own competence, the beyond part is you cannot continue this pattern of behavior) I am going to try for five more minutes. When the time is up, excuse yourself and get a supervisor.
      While the supervisor is working with the patron, stay nearby, observe and take notes. Figure out if you need different strategies to help the person.

    7. Not So NewReader*

      To me this is a training issue and I think that because of this sentence here: “There are ways to deal with this, and other libraries to send them to that do that kind of help, but I didn’t know that at the time and didn’t know how to say no, so I helped him way more than I should have.”

      My friend is a lawyer. And she says there is no way that law school prepares a person for ALL. THE. FORMS. that must be completed. For many professionals, the job is the real training, so understand you are not alone, you are not unusual AT ALL.

      I’d recommend asking the boss for resources where you can read up on how to handle tricky situations, how to know where your limits are so you can say NO earlier and learn just how many resources are out there. You can decide to turn yourself into an encyclopedia of this practical knowledge.

      I sincerely doubt that you will hit a bump in the road this big again. But you will find that things come up and some days can feel like the FIRST day of work all over again. This feeling will stop. (In my case it stopped because I just decided that I will never feel like I have learned my job. I can’t hit a moving target, I can only chase it.)

      My current boss and I have set time limits on problems. We allow ourselves 15 minutes to try to figure something out. If we haven’t reach a conclusion then we call in help. This could be each other or it could be an outside source. Happily with setting a time limit it also helps to keep frustration levels down as well as finding a solution quicker. I don’t know what that would look like in your setting, but perhaps you can find your own version of the time limit thing we do.

      1. tangerineRose*

        I think a lot of colleges don’t cover everything that you will deal with in real life based on your major. Computer science classes rarely even mentioned how often programmers will work with existing, undocumented code and how many changes are made.

  30. Zap R.*

    Anyone else here holding down a full-time job with Tourette Syndrome? I feel like I (mostly) cope pretty well but I’m curious to see how others manage.

    1. partnerthereof*

      Not me but my partner, holds down a full-time desk job that just this week switched to full time work-from-home with mild to moderate Tourette’s (I don’t know exactly how it’s classed, but the vocal tics are noises, not words, and the physical tics do not prevent them from performing the majority of tasks in regular life).

      They’d been in therapy for many years before I met them so they have a lot of behavioral therapy techniques that they swear by in being helpful. Of course there’s only so much “controlling” Tourette’s but theirs is certainly alleviated at least some by stress management.

      I know it’s going to vary a lot by severity of tics, but my partner has done their best to treat it as a “background noise” in their life – ie, they don’t acknowledge or make a big deal of minor tics occurring during conversation, so others around them shouldn’t be either, and they’ve been fortunate enough to find a workplace where everyone has followed suit when they did work in the office setting. I don’t work with them to know how it’s handled in office, but when we’ve had conversations where they’ve gotten worked up (excitement, anger, stress, any strong emotion can aggravate the tics) we both tend to just try to wait longer before interjecting with each other so that they can get out what they’re trying to get out past the tics without being interrupted. This was never something we formally established, it just became natural as we got to know each other.

      They are considering a career change that would increase the necessity for public speaking and interactions with strangers that might be anxiety inducing and I’ve definitely wondered how they plan to handle it, but I’m waiting for them to bring it up because I don’t want it to seem like I think they wouldn’t be able to handle the change (obviously I’m biased, but I think my partner is capable and great and would hate to give any other impression)

    2. partnerthereof*

      Darn! I just typed a decently long reply that disappeared when I hit submit. I’ll try to recreate / summarize.

      Not me but my partner. They’ve held the same job for six years or so with internal promotions and lateral moves and is well liked by all. Used to work entirely in the office, went partial WFH a few years ago, and late last year went full time WFH. Obviously managing it while working from home is pretty easy in comparison to an office, but I know in general from being with them so long that they really try to take a “its background noise, don’t mind me” approach to their tics. That is to say, unless it’s severely interrupting the conversation (Which they are fortunate to not have tics of this nature) they treat them as though they aren’t happening and they’ve been fortunate to have coworkers who follow this cue. Sometimes it takes them a bit longer to get out what they’re trying to say vocally, but most of their work communication occurs via IM or email anyway. This, with a background of years of behavioral therapy and stress management techniques, helps keep the tics pretty manageable.

      They are considering a career change that might put them in a position of needing to do more public speaking / interacting with strangers and occasionally deal with higher emotional situation (happiness, frustration, anger, all this strong emotions trigger tics, as I’m sure you well know) and I do wonder how they plan to deal with it, but I haven’t asked because they haven’t brought it up. They really prefer to treat their Tourette’s as a minor detail of their life and to us, so used to it by now, it really is. That plus I wouldn’t want to bring it up and give off the impression that I think they’re anything less than capable and great and able to tackle the challenge, which is what I believe regardless.

    3. Lx in Canada*

      I have it… I’m on a fair amount of medications right now to experiment with how it calms down the tics. My main tic is blinking and sometimes squeaking so it’s not too bad. A lot of my tics are mild or are right now not very existent (due to meds, but that’s a whole other can of worms – they are kind of rough), so that helps. I don’t think people really notice, and those who do are generally nice enough not to say anything.

  31. PhD Panic*

    Anyone else ruminating about an interview you haven’t heard back from yet? I feel like all I can think about are the ways I could’ve phrased things better :(

    2. Goldfinch*

      I could have written your comment.

      I babbled vaguely about a concept that has a clear two-word name, but I had forgotten the name, and panicked by talking in circles. My job involves being succinct.

    3. Senor Montoya*

      As a person running a search that is dragging out due to circumstances absolutely beyond my control (I am calling it The Search That Refused to Die), please know that you may be one of our top candidates but we cannot get back to you with an offer for all sorts of reasons that have nothing to do with you.

      I want to contact everyone and say, Sorry! So so sorry! We can’t tell you anything! Sorry!

      But I can’t. So very sorry!

    4. Ariana Grande's Ponytail*

      Yes I am having the same thoughts creep in today. I think I pretty much aced the interview, or at least presented myself and my goals in the best light I could, yet now all I can think about is if I was too casual when I like, laughed when my interviewer said something that was admittedly funny. I’m sure it’s fine but I’m supposed to hear back today. Oh god, let me hear back today and not on Monday.

    5. Not really a waitress*

      yes. Interviewed on Tuesday. Did hear back from my recruiter contact that hiring manger is out on PTO (she mentioned Tuesday her Daughter was sick) so maybe early next week

    6. it happens*

      How’s this for fun? I had a great screening interview last week and they immediately scheduled a hiring manager call. Which the hiring manager did not attend and the person I had such a great conversation with has disappeared… oh well, they called me out of the blue and I am probably too senior for the job, but it’s annoying, nonetheless
      I hope you have a much better experience.

    7. Origamist*

      I had a phone screen Wednesday, sent an email with a follow-up question on Thursday and didn’t get a reply back. Trying not to view it as “oh God they hated me and don’t want to waste any more time on me”. Compounding the anxiety, a coworker at current job also applied to this position and said her phone screen went well. Supposed to hear Monday if I get an interview…

  32. ET*

    Argh… I’m not sure if I am having allergies or a contagious virus, and I don’t know what the baseline for “oh, I should stay home to avoid getting other people sick” should be. I’m exhausted, sniffling, and sneezing. I had a nasty cold a couple weeks ago that came with a fever, cough, and sore throat, and this is not that, but also I’ve taken a double dose of Claritin and it’s helped some but not enough.

    No COVID-19 in my state or even this region of the country yet… and I’m almost out of sick days til April. However, my job can be done from home if need be.

    1. Turtlewings*

      Definitely sounds like a work-from-home day, if you can. Even if it’s allergies, which you don’t know at this point, the sounds of your misery are no one’s favorite soundtrack, and you’ll probably be more productive if you’re comfortable at home.

      I hope you feel better soon!

      1. Analytical Tree Hugger*

        Agreed. Even if it’s just a cold, I appreciate my coworkers who stay at home (when they can work from home) so they don’t spread it around.

    3. Quill*

      If you normally have allergies sometimes, I’d work from home a day. If nothing else, not commuting and sleeping more may perk you up. And if you start sneezing gobs you’ll at least be able to do it at home.

    4. Mockingjay*

      I’m in the SwampEast and our pollen season is already in full session.

      Is telework an option for you? “Hey, boss, not sure if it’s my allergies or if I’m catching a cold. In case it’s the latter, to keep everyone healthy, mind if I telework a few days?”

      Hope you feel better quickly!

    5. Nope*

      I stayed home with a cold for (taking a Friday and a Monday off) but am still feeling *something*. It’s just lingering and making me feel tired and cranky. Hoping my upcoming vacation will allow me to finally shake it. It just seems like everyone is sick though, and I’m in IT and we’re in the middle of upgrades so I’m touching a lot of computers though I got smart and started using my own keyboard/mouse so I don’t need to touch the (sometimes REALLY gross) keyboards of the laptop devices I’m working on. I hate this time of year.

  33. Free Meercats*

    Corona virus hysteria, how are you seeing it manifest?

    One of our employees, Goober, is currently in South America, not a hotspot area, not in a country with any signs yet. Another employee, Floyd, has bought into some of the conspiracy theories, lock, stock, and barrel. The CIA developed it along with the Chinese and it’s a combination accidental escape from the lab/test on civilians/Chinese false flag attack on their own people – or something like that. Floyd has stated he’s going to wear a mask when the Goober returns. No problem , right?

    No, Floyd has stated that he’s going to wear his Army NBC (Nuclear, Biological, Chemical attack) mask whenever Goober is onsite. Image here: https://www.fortbraggsurplus.us/v/vspfiles/photos/M50-Gas-Mask-2.jpg

    Luckily, neither one works for me, so I’m just sitting on the sidelines watching.

    1. PX*

      o.O

      We’ve just gotten a lot of emails at work about procedures and steps that are being taken and the usual feedback to practice good hygiene. Looks like working from will be the default for most people if it gets worse.

    2. Blueberry*

      One of my work duties is monitoring our company Facebook group (which I hate, though I know it sounds like “Getting to read Facebook for work would be fun”) and I am so sick of the conspiracy theories/racist advice/general fearmongering people keep posting, which shows up on the timeline. ugh.

      1. The New Wanderer*

        On our work intranet, when the topic came up people have been posting their fear mongering “statistics” on the mortality rate, doomsday prepping suggestions, anti vaxxer stances, and MLM remedies with thinly disguised sales pitches. Of course there are the counter arguments with citations, and counter counter arguments.

    3. Tedious Cat*

      It manifested in me this morning but I think I managed to hide it. A coworker told me she was going on a cruise next week and my immediate impulse was to ask what she was thinking. The cruise isn’t anywhere near areas of infection, but it’s the other cruisers that are the variable. After the spread on the Diamond Princess, I wouldn’t want to be in an enclosed area like that right now. But! None of that is kind to bring up to a coworker, so I stuck with “have fun!”

      1. Moinmoin*

        I was thinking about that today. I’m planning a trip to Las Vegas in a couple months and, while it’s not a hot spot for the virus, it is a tourist destination and would require a flight to get there, so there’s lots of potential to interact with travelers from all over. I just don’t really know how big of a deal that should be.

      2. Merci Dee*

        I have a pretty good feeling that your co-worker has already been thinking about all of this on her own.

        My daughter and I have a cruise to the Bahamas that we booked in November and is scheduled for July. I’m watching the progression of Covid-19 with interest, but hoping that things may have calmed down by the time our trip is scheduled.

        My boss, however, is scheduled for a cruise that’s supposed to be leaving Miami in about 3 weeks. She and her husband planned the cruise to coincide with their granddaughter’s spring break so that they could take her along with them. As of now, her cruise hasn’t been cancelled, but she’s thinking of re-scheduling for some time toward the end of the year anyway.

      2. Lora*

        OK, I used to have to actually wear the whole Class B suit including the full face respirator for work, and it is seriously irresistible to check your mask valves WITHOUT doing the Darth Vader noises…every single time. Even when you have been doing this every day for a week. I’m sorry, it just kinda happens. Even when you’re a grown adult with a mortgage and you’re cleaning up something that could easily kill you if you get a hole in your suit. I don’t know, you’re just standing in a kiddie pool full of disinfectant while someone sprays you with an orchard sprayer as you peel your layers off, and you’re like, “kshshshsh…I find your lack of (whatever)…” etc etc. I know, it gets old really quickly, and I’m sorry to say I was this annoying for many years but at least I don’t do it anymore.

    6. Nicki Name*

      My workplace is thankfully conspiracy-free so far. Everyone’s absorbed the message of “same precautions as for flu, with more vigilance”, although I have one coworker who’s extra anxious because allegedly in their country, “we don’t have flu”.

    7. NJBi*

      A coworker in a different department from mine has been bizarrely changing how they clean the (VERY SMALL) office kitchen. Bizarrely changing as in making changes that don’t seem to make any sense to me–like leaving folks’ dried dishes in a stack next to the drying rack instead of putting them in the cabinet, which they would do every morning before people got in. The putting things away at 8am was annoying in its own right, because then they’d be all high and mighty about putting away other people’s dishes, when in fact, people routinely would do it when they got in a bit later and made a morning coffee–as happened if this one person hadn’t already put away the dishes. Why change from putting away dishes to putting them on the counter, instead of just… leaving them in the drying rack? The world will never know. I’ve started putting away any dry dishes that happen to be in the rack when I wash out my coffee mug, since that tends to be in the afternoon. Usually can manage to put anything that’s there away by the time the water gets hot, because again–everybody basically manages their own stuff, the thing is pretty much never full.

      Oh, and how is this coronavirus related? I wouldn’t have thought it was at all, except I was trapped into an unexpected convo when I ran into the person aggressively Chloroxing the countertops one morning,* and they gradually started on a series of extremely xenophobic comments about coworkers in a third department who are from Asia. What!!! I and the third person squished into this tiny room both did a double-take–it was totally unexpected, never would have connected the dots without this conversation and never would have thought this coworker held such xenophobic views–and I made some comments about Oh, idk, I always see OtherDepartment staff do their dishes as soon as the dirty dishes come into the kitchen, which is so nice that they don’t leave them in the sink for later…

      Wasn’t expecting this at all, and it makes me (a white person) feel like I ought to be more on the lookout for ways that this outbreak might be ramping up baseless, xenophobic, racist prejudices against my coworkers.

      * There are no COVID-19 cases or suspected cases in the state where I work, nor in any bordering state for that matter, but of course especially since it’s flu season, it’s a good idea to clean the countertops with a disinfectant. Just, you know… with mindful flu-and-colds thoughts, please, not xenophobic COVID-19 thoughts.

    8. Policy Wonk*

      My favorite is this news report: people are avoiding Corona beer because of fear of the Corona virus!

      1. Junimo the Hutt*

        Agreed. It was just a poll in which a number of people simply wouldn’t drink Corona beer! At all! Not connected to the virus in any way! It’s frustratingly irresponsible of that major media company. If anybody needs me, I’m going to go find a void to scream into.

    9. Not A Manager*

      I know that we generally frown upon people taking pics of their co-workers and posting them on social media, but could this one be an exception? I hope that Floyd is also planning to wear a Darth Vader cape as well.

    12. Seven hobbits are highly effective, people*

      I’m playing “cold or allergies” with my current set of mild sniffles and sore throat, and debating whether or not I should start wearing a mask to work so I stop touching my gross face all day. However, we are very much not a mask-wearing work culture, and I don’t want hear a bunch of comments about corona virus paranoia from people. (I have a bunch of fabric masks with anime animal noses/smiles on them, which I bought at a con last year with the idea that I’d wear them at future cons to avoid spreading con crud around since I go to at least three cons during cold/flu season most years. They’re something I already own and are reusable, so it’s not like I’d be acquiring and wasting masks that someone else might need more. I suppose I also don’t want a bunch of “why are you wearing an anime cat mask at work, and how did you come to own such a thing to start with” comments from people at work, which is an additional disadvantage to the particular masks I own.)

      1. Nicki Name*

        If you’re dealing with largely reasonable people, you can point them to the latest info on the virus symptoms, which is that they include a dry cough and fever but **not** a runny nose.

    13. Lonely Aussie*

      My co-workers mostly just think the whole thing is funny… but they’re also a bunch of pricks.

      Work as far as I’m aware has no plans for dealing with it. We work with animals and not only is work cheap with the sick leave (for Aus, we get 11 days) there’s this real culture of coming in sick and infecting everyone else. Things still need to be cared for no matter how many people are in so there’s a lot of peer pressure that you only call out if you or your kids are dying. Basically if it comes to my part of the world, I’m pretty sure I’ll pick it up at work.

      95% of my coworkers have kids, as someone child-free, I’d honestly be fine with them getting like another two weeks of carer’s leave or something if it meant they’d stop using all their sick leave staying home with the sprogs and then coming into work infecting everyone else when they’re sick.

    16. Emilitron*

      I would be so tempted to start suggesting new people Floyd should be avoiding (with their permission, to be in on the joke). “Hey, did you hear Vicki coughing?” “Jeff was out yesterday, I hope he’s okay”. Maybe even make up info “Oh yes my neighbor was just in (sketchiest location you dare suggest), but I feel fine so far”

  34. Job Applicant Question*

    When applying for a job, how do I ask about working remotely full-time when it’s not a deal-breaker on my side (as an applicant)? It is just a bad idea?

    I’m applying to jobs and I’m open to moving, there is a part of me that doesn’t want to deal with it. My career/role is generally remote-compatible, but I know working remote is a big deal when one is looking to join a new team/company (especially if crossing state lines). Still, continuing to work from here is intriguing and I’d like to explore if that’s an option. One team I’m interviewing with is spread out across the globe (though they are a relatively small company), if that makes a difference. And I’m currently 100% remote and in a different timezone from my team, with good success/productivity.

    Any advice or perspectives?

    1. ET*

      I think you should be able to just ask, “Hey, is this job compatible with remote work? I am currently 100% remote and it’s working very well for me, so while I’m definitely open to relocating, I’m also interested in continuing to work remotely if it’s an option.”

    2. Lily in NYC*

      If it’s not a dealbreaker, I wouldn’t ask until you have been called back for a second interview (or maybe not until a job offer).

      1. Diahann Carroll*

        I wouldn’t wait until a job offer because the hiring manager may need to get approval for something like that (or clarification as to whether it’s even a possibility) from someone higher up in the company, which could delay the process. If OP asks early on, that gives the company more time to get an answer.

  35. bassclefchick*

    I am rather excited! I work at a major university and just got selected to be on the search and screen committee for a new Associate Vice Chancellor of my division. I have absolutely no idea what I’ll be doing. Anyone in academia have any advice for me? Thanks!

    1. Peacemaker*

      I just got off the dean search committee for another unit at my university, and have served on higher level search committees in the past. Are they using a search consultant? Good ones can really help guide the process and identify potential candidates. Bad ones can slow things down and really disrupt the process.

      As for what you can do, ask questions, get a clear understanding of goals, boundaries, and selection criteria, and if it seems like either are unclear, push for clarification. Independent of those things, you are probably part of the committee as a representative of some part of your area, so represent. You’ll likely need to keep specifics confidential for a time (and some things forever), but you can certainly ask around your unit for others’ insight about what they would like in the ideal candidate. Then bring those thoughts to the committee.

    2. Senor Montoya*

      Typically the committee will have a meeting with the hiring officer to give the committee the charge for the search. Take notes (even if the chair and/or assigned admin is already doing so).

      Get clarity on what you need to be looking for when reviewing applications. Use your notes from teh charge meeting plus the job posting plus anything the committee discusses about this. Sometimes such committees will have a rubric. Make sure you understand it and ask if you have questions — you may not know you have questions til you start reading applications! Ask = ask the search committee chair.

      You will likely get an info session or do an online lesson re fair and equitable searching and/or best practices.

      Keep everything confidential. If someone asks you about the progress of the search, refer them to the chair. If someone wants to put in a plug for a particular candidate, refer them to the chair. (If this is happening over email, forward it to the chair)

      Keep your notes. Be careful with your notes — don’t leave them lying around. Don’t put anything in them that’s not appropriate.

      Don’t be afraid to share your evaluation of the candidates.

      Find out from your home office / constituency what’s important to them re this position. Represent!

      It is going to take longer than you expect or think reasonable. Maybe a lot longer…

    3. Artemesia*

      Find out what the criteria are for top candidates; as a newbie you are in a good position to ask and if they don’t have a rubric or list, then encourage one if you will be screening applications. If a committee is doing that then everyone should have a checklist of the top requirements and what makes a good candidate.

  36. gradschoolanon*

    I’ve been toying with the idea of pursuing a master’s degree in analytics. Some things have gone down at my job that make it clear I’m not valued, no matter now much lip service is paid otherwise, and my potential is being wasted here. I’m angling to get a job at the university for free credits, but the cost is not as much as I thought, so I just might do it even if I don’t get an offer. I’ll take any good vibes!

    1. Inga*

      I’m in a weirdly parallel but opposite situation! I wasn’t sure what I wanted to go to grad school for, but knew I didn’t want to pay for it, so I specifically job-searched with universities. I got a job at one that has an analytics program, which I’m halfway done with. Unfortunately, the job itself is a disaster. They also undervalue me despite telling me otherwise and all their professional standards are bizarre and frustrating. I’ve decided to quit and focus on completing the rest of my degree, even though I’m giving up my tuition benefits. So if you know what you’d like to go for and it seems feasible, just do it. You never know how things might end up

      1. gradschoolanon*

        Well that sounds frustrating! And like a nightmare! I’m always wary of changing jobs and ending up in an even worse situation, but at this point I am out of f**ks. The program I’m looking at is 2-3 semesters, so I think I can stick out anything for at least a decent portion of that time. Do you have to pay any of it back though, since you’re leaving? Or you just pay from here out?

        1. Inga*

          I would only have to pay for credits going forward. Or, if I decided to leave right now in the middle of the semester, the amount I would have to pay would be pro-rated based on how many weeks I was employed during the semester. If you do end up working for the school while you do your degree a couple things from my experience:
          – You might have to wait awhile before the benefit kicks in (in my case, it was a few months), which could affect when you apply to and start the program.
          – It might depend on the state or other factors, but in my case, they could only waive tuition completely up to a certain amount per year. The rest of it would be considered as part of your salary and taxed accordingly. Whether you decided to have that taken out of each paycheck or wait until it’s time to pay taxes would be up to you. (I’m in the US.)
          Whatever you end up doing, good luck!!

    2. Havarti*

      Hope you get that job for some sweet, sweet free credits. Or maybe look at other employers that offer reimbursement programs for education. That’s what I’m doing. Good luck!

      1. gradschoolanon*

        Thanks! I plan to discuss semi-candidly with my boss, although I’m sure there’s a less than 0 chance they would ever offer to reimburse me. Despite data being extremely relevant to what I do now. But you’re right, I can also look into other employers too.

    3. DG*

      You should definitely check out some edX courses – they’re all free (you only have to pay if you want the official certificate). And they might be worth looking into if you’re not totally sure you’d like analytics.

      I’m currently going through a set of courses there and I love that I can work at my own pace and that it lets me test the waters before I ask for tuition reimbursement from my employer.

    4. Snark no more!*

      Are you near Pittsburgh? Our university, named for the city, is hiring. If you’re close. Our benefit is paying 3% of tuition. You have to make it through your provisional, which is 6 months, before you can participate. There are different rules for bachelor and master

  37. Anonymous Educator*

    Has anyone ever had their own complaints about work, heard a friend complain about her work environment, and then think “Oh, God! My problems are so, so small”?

    1. Amber Rose*

      No, because I consistently work in the craziest places. But I have heard that from other people when I complain about my work lol.

      Though I do sometimes read about managers being violent/abusive/generally scary and feel super relieved that the one I had wasn’t as bad as he could have been, towards me anyway.

    2. ThatGirl*

      I had a coworker who complained about our manager All. The. Time. And don’t get me wrong – they clashed a fair amount and our manager is a bit of a control freak who hates to be wrong. But coworker got really dramatic about it sometimes, and seemed to have lost perspective — manager has her flaws, but she’s not a horrible or abusive person. It was just a little bit like, ok, you haven’t seen a truly toxic work environment, you just have a clash of personalities.

    3. Niniel*

      Nope, I usually have the opposite problem. I used to work in a house full of bees, so the problems I hear about at my current job feel like nothing. But for people who did NOT work in a house of bees, the problems I hear about would seem larger.

    6. Tau*

      I regularly feel like this when I read AAM. In fact, last summer I posted on the open thread to get a reality check that it was reasonable to be job searching when I was not working in a pit of toxic dysfunction, really liked my boss and coworkers, had good pay and benefits, and generally was not in one of the “RUN AWAY SCREAMING” situations we see so often on here. (Spoiler alert: it was totally reasonable, and in my new job I also like my boss and coworkers + my pay and benefits and don’t have to deal with the chaos and lack of direction that plagued my old team.)

      1. Bostonian*

        Ooooh I feel you, and you’re exactly where I want to be! I feel like it would be pretty evident from asking about the job and general observations, but do you have any special tips for determining during the interview process that the new job doesn’t have the chaos and lack of direction?

        1. Tau*

          Unfortunately, I feel I more or less stumbled into the current job. I tried to ask about processes and vision in the interview, and also said I was looking for a new job because I wanted something with more structure… but that actually made the hiring manager worry about whether I’d be able to cope with their still-getting-set-up processes or whether I was too rigid :/ they took me in the end but I was definitely going “oops” for a while there. Fact is that the level of chaos and disorganisation at last!job was really unusual, especially the degree to which it affected my role (like, at one point they basically ran out of work for me for two months, this should never happen to a software developer I swear), so I wasn’t actually likely to run into something as bad but asking about it made them think I was really concerned about more normal process problems.

          One thing I did do that worked fairly well was ask whether they had a product live on the market, because having one means:
          – they managed to get their shit together long enough to build something sellable and deliver it (not that I’m looking at my old company here at all)
          – there are now actual users involved, who tend to produce tasks and goals all on their own
          Maybe there’s something similar in your industry?

    8. Quill*

      Last friday my best friend and I spent 20 minutes screaming about the exact same work situation. (We work in sister companies both being affected by the same industry stuff.)

    9. Goldfinch*

      My husband spent over a decade teaching in a violent, impoverished high school. He was stabbed multiple times. I do not ever win “worst day at work”.

    11. Anon for this one*

      Heh, I’ve had the opposite experience… venting about complaints to people whose worst experience was that Jim in accounting mistakenly printed their internal reconciliation reports to the company letterhead tray and now they’ve used all the letterhead and Sue for whatever reason didn’t order any more, and so now we have to print the logo ourselves on the heavywight paper we took from legal when they weren’t looking…
      … meanwhile if we don’t figure out how to resolve this problem in the next 2 hours before the deadline, and no one has any idea how to fix it, we will lose the $2m revenue for that quarter, and the whole division will be in review as to whether it’s viable.

  38. Amber Rose*

    RANT: I’m doing my absolute best to be a neutral party at all times and in all ways but I’m having trouble not getting a little fed up with how oblivious and uncompromising the people around me can be.

    My coworker tried to encourage another coworker to not work through lunch by saying “it’s not like you’re getting paid for it” to which my boss became VERY offended, and then I ended up in a meeting with the two of them trying to be mediator, and both of them were being very frustrating.

    Like on the one hand, that comment was kind of crappy. Yeah, we don’t get paid for lunch. But we also don’t get docked for appointments, taking off early, needing to run out for quick errands, etc. We’re expected to use an honor system for work time that should roughly even out to 40 hours a week and sometimes that means working through lunch or staying late to get your work done.

    But on the other hand, that expectation was never made clear to anyone when we switched to salary last year, and most of us have no idea how salary differs from hourly (in Canada, almost not at all) or how management wanted to treat it, so I feel my boss did overreact a bit, and she was pretty quick to start throwing around threats of making people hourly and accountable for every minute which… really wasn’t helpful!

    And then back to the other coworker, I thought she was getting it that her comment was unhelpful and then she said, “I just didn’t realize we were supposed to take our whole lunch” which was not the friggin point.

    ARGH everyone is so frustrating. And then they all come crying to me, and I just quietly document all our conversations as HR but I have no power to change anything or help anyone and I’m equally sympathetic and frustrated with all of them but don’t want to step on any toes so I just stay… neutral.

    After that meeting I heard, “I thought we were supposed to talk it out with each other” which was, like, the point of the meeting. It’s like people are so used to not communicating they don’t even know what it looks like when it happens.

    1. WellRed*

      I’m not clear on why you needed to be involved in this (are you HR?), but I also don’t see why it turned into such a Big Thing that there needed to be mediation over a pretty innocuous comment. People shouldn’t have to work through lunch.

      1. Amber Rose*

        I’m the closest thing to HR we have, which is silly because I have zero training or experience. I pretty much said “we are growing we should have HR” and was told “cool, go for it.”

        My boss can be kind of a hard ass. She works most nights and weekends to get everything done and gets frustrated when other people seemingly take advantage of the perks of working here while not being willing to compromise. Which I get. If you took off two hours early for a doctor’s appointment, it’s really not unreasonable that you might need to take a short lunch to catch up on work.

        1. Havarti*

          Ah, that explains quite a lot. Sure, you balance out your hours but someone working on evenings and weekends has pretty much ruined any sense of boundaries between work and non-work so while I now understand why she’d be offended, she’s not necessarily in the right. It’s not healthy to sacrifice all for the sake of the work.

      1. Amber Rose*

        She was offended that coworker said “it’s not like you’re getting paid” since yeah, you don’t get paid for lunch, but you also don’t get docked pay for needing an hour or two for an appointment or a kid thing. It’s not really fair that people take it for granted that they get paid to be at the doctor but won’t cut their lunch down sometimes when work needs to get done.

        1. Mellow*

          Curious: are you saying there is no sick leave where you work? That’s what people usually use for medical appointments.

      1. Lily in NYC*

        It sounds like she overreacted but I can understand why she was upset – when you give leeway to your employees and don’t dock them when they leave early, etc, then you expect them not to nickel and dime their hours in return. It probably felt like a punch in the gut to hear what that obnoxious employee said.

  39. An Actual Fennec Fox*

    So, half venting, half asking for advice.

    I have this coworker who is driving me up the metaphoric wall. We work together in a lot of projects that require communication with customers, and this happens nearly every time.

    Coworker: Fennec, can you write the text for X communication and send it to me?
    F: Sure, on it.
    I write the text and send it along.
    Coworker: It’s great, send it along to be posted on (wherever it will be posted – blog, Facebook, main website, etc).

    A while later…

    F: CW, the text is already up.
    Coworker: Ah. See… so, there is this comma you put here, can you take it off? This sentence is too long, can you make it shorter? Can you add this or that?

    Does anyone have this coworker or has had them before? He’s not my boss, we’re in different chains of command, but he’s senior to me (and usually leading these projects) and boss is very hands-off, so going to the boss about it really won’t fix the issue.

    1. Veronica Mars*

      Ugh, that’s so annoying! I think I’d start building in a delay between when he approves and when you put it up since it seems like he’s not giving things a close enough look when he first approves them. Also, I’d just flat out refuse to change things if he’s already given you written permission to post it, and you’ve done so. Especially over comas and nonsense.

      1. An Actual Fennec Fox*

        It is, it drives me crazy, because it happens all the freaking time. Most of the time we’re running late because I always do things when I get the request, but sometimes I get the request right on the day things need to go up or the day before. And yeah, I don’t always have the energy to fight him on that, especially when I’m super busy, so I tell him to email (the person who posted it) himself. Sometimes he will, sometimes he won’t.

    2. PX*

      Whenever they come back with nitpicking I’d just refer them to the earlier email where they said it was fine and say that as they signed off then you proceeded.

      Do you actually need to go back and change/fix what they want or can you just say “sorry, too late please provide this feedback earlier next time”?

      1. An Actual Fennec Fox*

        When the communication falls solely on me (aka, if there is actually a mistake), it’s on me, I just tell him I’ll take whatever consequences (of which there are usually none because it’s not an actual mistake, it’s mostly nitpicky stuff). When it’s under his responsibility, 99% of the time I tell him to email the person himself. Sometimes he does, sometimes it’s suddenly not that important to have the change made.

    3. introverted af*

      I think I would try playing dumb in this situation if it was me. “What do you mean it’s too long? You told me to post it in your previous email.” “Oh, is that comma not what you wanted? But you gave me the green light yesterday.” And give that a couple tries to see how it works. You’re not saying you won’t or can’t make those changes, you’re just pushing back a little bit to try and get them to think about the situation and asking for a reason they want this change now. Once you do reach some kind of conclusion on each little incident (it does make sense to change the wording because… or whatever) then I would follow it with, “how can we make sure we get these edits in the first time?” and propose some ways to do that.

      1. An Actual Fennec Fox*

        The worst is when they go over my head, ask for a change, see that it doesn’t work and then ask me to ask for it changed back. I try not to let the fact that I don’t like CW color my view, but sometimes I wonder if he’s either messing with me or involved in some kind of weird power battle I’m not even aware we’re fighting.

    4. CM*

      This coworker was my boss, when it was me. :( I explained as many ways as I could why I (and the rest of my team) needed to be able to trust that, when something was “final” and “approved,” it actually was final and approved and not a file we were going to re-open and change another 1800 times. She always said she understood, and then she did it anyway because she was a coward.

      1. An Actual Fennec Fox*

        Yeah. When it’s the website or blog, is a minor inconvenience. When it’s an email that goes out to specific customers with the information and then he wants me to recall it and rewrite, ugh. He wasn’t happy when I commented I can’t unsend an email and ended up letting it go. But it’s exhausting to have to stop whatever I’m doing (it’s not a light workload) to write the texts just to then have this BS thrown my way.

    5. Emilitron*

      Hmm… they say “send it along to be posted”, maybe you reply “Great, will do. That should be live in about 45 minutes, so if you see any last minute edits, you’ve got until (time 40 minutes from now). After that we shouldn’t make changes.” And yes if the delay in going live is because you’re giving them a remorse timer, that’s fine too.

      1. An Actual Fennec Fox*

        The sad part is that I’m not the one who actually posts it, that’s our webmaster’s job. If I had it under my control (though it would be one more thing on my plate), this would be a much easier process. I’ll have to brainstorm what I can do to make this less of a hassle, as our webmaster is not too responsive to begin with. Thank you!

  40. PX*

    I’m so over my current job. I have a verbal offer but am waiting for the full set of details before being able to make a final decision but I’m leaning towards taking it anyway based on the info I have (salary and company culture are good enough).

    But the waiting is terrible. And I’m in Europe so my notice period is going to be quite long anyway so just frustrated that I’m going to be stuck here for longer than I want to be.

    Friday vent over!

      1. Darren*

        Typically measured in months. 1 month (4 weeks) for lower level positions often up to 3 or more months for relatively senior individual contributors.

        Australia is pretty similar I’ve got a 3 month notice period at my current place that I work.

  41. Veronica Mars*

    Amusing Story Time:

    I work at the same massive company as my husband, but on opposite sides of campus, and we don’t talk about it much.
    A few weeks back, I happened to be on his side of campus for lunchtime, so we met in his (I thought) very private break area for lunch. When I got up to leave, I kissed him.
    His coworker saw this, and started rumors that he was cheating on his wife with “some work hussie.”

      1. Veronica Mars*

        Luckily one of the first coworkers that received the gossip knew I worked there and put a stop to it, so yes, its just an amusingly delightful story and not something that truly affected his career. Hah

    3. Person from the Resume*

      Veronica Mars. Please change your user name to “some work hussie” since that is what you obviously are. LOL!!!

    5. Wing Leader*

      Oh yeah, I actually remember an AAM letter like this. A woman worked pretty close to her husband and met up with him for lunch. When she got back to work, an intern chastised her for meeting up with a married man and said it wasn’t appropriate. Yeeaahhhh.

    7. Ama*

      My brother and sister in law work in a similar situation. Their last name is very common in the area where they live so when they got married and sis-in-law changed her name, a bunch of people didn’t connect it to brother-in-law. In fact one of their coworkers didn’t figure it out until they had their first kid and she started to see them alternating picking the same little boy up from the employee daycare.

  42. Ted Mosby*

    I am experiencing some heavy temp job burnout.

    I have a master’s degree and about 6 or 7 internships that I worked during grad school under my belt. It’s been about a year and a half now since I graduated and I have worked pretty solidly about 80-90% of my time, but it’s been temporary job after temporary job, most of which were supposed to go full time and fell through. In this year and a half all I’ve wanted more than ANYTHING is a full-time position where it won’t be up in the air after 3 or 4 or 6 months whether they decide to keep me or not. I’ve applied for upwards of 60 or 70 jobs. I hear that my resume is impressive (god knows I have enough positions listed on there to turn heads) and I know I’m a good interviewee because I get every temp job I interview for. But when it comes to the full-time positions, it’s always “we went with someone with more experience” or “we lost an account and aren’t filling the position” or a full-on ghost.

    I am BURNT OUT at this point. I’m applying to positions both in my city and all over the country and I’m baffled as to how my school friends can find these positions seemingly easily. I don’t know how many more cover letters I can write. I’ve gone through recruiters, I’ve talked with people on LinkedIn and my local professional chapter.

    I guess what I’m asking is how to keep hold of my sanity during this search. It’s gotten exhausting hoping that every “contract-to-hire” job I get will actually turn into a hire and I stopped getting my hopes up after one particularly heartbreaking end-of-contract. There has to be an end in sight, right? (Yes, I’m going to therapy throughout all of this)

    1. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      I’ve written about this before: Celebrate milestones on your job search by throwing yourself a party. Make it a joke, but also genuinely celebrate. Also, consider backing off of the job search if you can afford to and spend some of your time/energy on activities that feed your soul and net you more energy than you put in.

      Also, ask your friends (and do some independent analysis) of why they seem to be getting jobs. Email previous supervisors and coworkers at your temp jobs for feedback: What can you improve? Maybe there’s something about how you were as a temp employee that didn’t mesh with these jobs (or maybe not).

      I’ve applied to over 90 jobs in the past year, with no offers, so you’re not alone.

    2. Cap. Marvel*

      I don’t have any advice for you, I just wanted to give you some internet hugs. I hope it gets better, I’m rooting for you!

    3. foolofgrace*

      No suggestions, just commiseration. But given the law of averages, things have to start turning your way soon.

    4. LabTechNoMore*

      Take whatever wins you can get. Anything. Feel proud of an especially well-done cover letter, even if they ghost on you? Doesn’t change that you wrote an awesome cover letter. Feel exhausted after a packed week of job-search related activities? You earned a long weekend (which likely won’t affect job prospects, since no one posts on weekends anyways.).

      When I was long-term unemployed, and had exhausted every single job posting I could conceivably apply at my (early career) level, the only marginally relevant job posting left was as a department head at a top employer in my field, in a position requiring advanced degrees and decades of experience that I didn’t possess. I decided, what the heck, and applied for my own amusement. It was actually a lot of fun writing a streeeeetch cover letter claiming my one year of experience and BS qualified me for a role at the very top of my field. The application was obviously rejected in an instant (and rightly so!), but sometimes you just need to keep your wheels rolling any way possible even after you’ve run out of gas, and your tires are all flat, and there’s fire billowing from the hood, and actually you’re on fire too. Gotta keep on truckin!

      1. LabTechNoMore*

        Oh, also lulls are natural. Constantly remind yourself of that! You didn’t suddenly become radioactive since the last time you heard back, it’s just the natural ebb and flow of job searching. Embracing the time off, or using the time to focus on something else isn’t something to feel bad about.

      2. Jean (just Jean)*

        > sometimes you just need to keep your wheels rolling any way possible even after you’ve run out of gas, and your tires are all flat, and there’s fire billowing from the hood, and actually you’re on fire too. Gotta keep on truckin!

        I hope you’ll see this–but even if not, I just had to tell the universe that your description of being a wreck in motion is wooonderfull> . Permission requested to quote you to my support group!

  43. KC Sunshine*

    There’s a big job fair at a school district I would REALLY like to work for tomorrow. I went last year and I don’t want to say it was a complete waste of time…but I didn’t get any jobs or formal interviews out of going. Really, I just met people and out a face with my name.

    This year, they’ve posted their job openings ahead of time, I’ve applied, and I’ve been in touch with administration at each school. So is there any point in going to the job fair?

    2. Colette*

      I’d say yes. One of the things I like to talk about at job fairs is what it’s like to actually work there – it’s a good chance to get a view of what the organization is like. But in your case, you can actually mention that you’ve applied.

    3. Muriel Heslop*

      Yes! Go! Our school send different administrators every year and we are all looking for different things and have different personalities. Do everything you can – you never know! Good luck! It sounds like you are on the path to success!

      1. KC Sunshine*

        Have you been on the interviewing end at a job fair? What kinds of things are you looking for from a candidate at these things?

    4. Policy Wonk*

      Yes! From a government perspective, some types of job fairs can serve for a couple of the steps in the hiring process, making the process shorter. E.g., there is a requirement that if you want to interview one candidate on your list you have to interview them all. Unless you interviewed your preferred candidate at the job fair. (Oversimplified, but you get the idea.)

  44. Write My Script!*

    I have a conundrum! I’ve won an international trip for high performance at work (yay!) that includes a +1, with RSVP required in a week. When I asked the event planner to give me additional specifics, she said it’s defined as a romantic partner who has “supported [my] successes the past year” but that she “can assure [me I’ll] still have fun traveling solo.” For various reasons that are none of my work’s damn business, I am not interested in bringing my spouse, and I want to bring my best friend. Event planner says no. Am I right that this is both unfair (I’m not receiving the full value of the award that other recipients are) and potentially discriminatory (I have to have a romantic partner or else I must travel solo?)? Event planner told me to take it up with HR, which – sure! But – what do I say? Thank y’all in advance.

    1. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I think that’s really strange. This is a reward trip, not a double date! Do bring it up to HR and say that your spouse cannot go (don’t give details) but you would like to bring your best friend and you were told no. Tell HR that this seems off because it means you’re not able to use the reward the way you want to. You would prefer not to travel solo, but more than that, the trip was offered with a +1 so you find it confusing that you get no option in who the other person is. Good luck.

    2. WellRed*

      Does the event planner work for your company? If not, not sure what taking it up with HR will accomplish? If they DO work for your company, I’d raise polite holy hell for all the reasons you state here.

    3. CTT*

      If you’re in the US it’s not discriminatory since marital status isn’t a protected class, but if it’s purely a social/no other work people there trip, it’s a dumb rule.

    4. Wing Leader*

      That’s…nuts. Why do you specifically have to bring a romantic partner? Are they you’ll get to have sex on this glorious vacation to? Geez. I see no reason why you can’t bring your best friend. Like others said, tell HR your husband is unavailable but you’d love to bring your friend.

      1. Wing Leader*

        My my, did I butcher that sentence. Change to: “Are they hoping you’ll get to have sex on this glorious vacation too?”

      2. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

        Romantic partners (married or not, doesn’t really matter, but part of a long-term relationship) are seen by some as a “unit” in the sense that they each support each other, pool resources, etc… in the way that a bff (and casual date come to think of it) are not.

    5. foolofgrace*

      This is another example of stupid qualifiers, I hope it’s okay to post, I apologize if it isn’t: When I was pregnant, my hospital’s LaMaze classes touted that when we delivered, the new mom and her husband would get a surf-and-turf dinner. Fast-forward to the day after delivery, no surf-and-turf. When I asked about it, I was told that I didn’t qualify because I was a single mom. I went on a hunger strike that nobody noticed except for my new child’s pediatrician, who I didn’t know beforehand. He was floored and said I should write to the head of the hospital, and the newspapers. I did write to the head of the hospital and I was told the rule would be changed, but I don’t know if it ever was.

      1. Muriel Heslop*

        That’s absolutely appalling. I wish I had known you then – I would have brought you a surf and turf myself.

    6. Massive Dynamic*

      I’ve run into something like this before at an old job that threw amazing christmas parties…. they gently asked (BUT did not strictly enforce) that the +1s be spouses or equivalent, because in their eyes, this person holding that level of significance in their employees’ lives is the one who deserves to be wined and dined along with the employee, because any celebration of the employees giving their all for the company is incomplete without acknowledging the role a supportive life partner plays.

      I definitely got where they were coming from, and was also glad that there was no super strict enforcement that would’ve denied coworkers from bringing a friend, a parent, etc. as ultimately it should be up to the employee to decide who “deserves” the honor to be treated along with them. Your work should be reminded that first and foremost, this is a reward to YOU for your hard work, and as such you should be able to choose your accomplice. Congratulations btw!

      1. Librarian of SHIELD*

        I hate when work events restrict +1 invites to romantic partners. Heck, I hate it all the time, but it feels especially egregious when it’s work related. As a perpetually single person, I hate always having to be the odd person out at a table full of couples.

        2. Warm Weighty Wrists*

          Agreed! I brought my brother to my work’s fancy holiday party because he’s fun and was supportive during my job search, and my coworkers luckily were very nice about it and thought it was sweet. Until I read this blog it never occurred to me anyone would look askance at it!

      1. CM*

        I thought this might be it, too. Or maybe they have some kind of deal where they’re getting a discount on a single room and can’t turn it into a double for whatever reason.

        Even if that’s the case, though, the correct thing for the event planner to do is explain the limitations of what they can provide and let the OP make a choice about whether or not to bring someone / whom to bring in light of the limitations. As opposed to assuming that you can’t bring a friend because the trip is set up like X.

        As for what to say to HR, I think you just say that it doesn’t make any sense why you’d need to bring your partner as opposed to anyone else and then see what their explanation is.

    8. Not So NewReader*

      Tell them they can’t tout it as a +1. Because that can be anyone and that is not what they mean, they mean, SO/LTR/spouse so they should say that.
      What if you wanted to bring your (hypothetical?) kid? Then what.

      I dunno maybe you can have some fun with it. “Well, I don’t want to go solo, so can I just have the equivalent in cash?”

      I did this to one of those spammers who call and tried to sell me windows for my house. “You won $1500 that you can apply to your purchase of new windows!!” So I said I just put in new windows but I would like the $1500 that I won. He blabbered on. I interrupted, “But can I have my $1500 in cash? I did win it!” Eventually he muttered something about having to check with his supervisor and he would have to call me back. The spammer hung up on me!
      You may or may not want to push this button, but it’s fun to think about.

    9. What the What*

      You could tell them that your friend is a romantic partner and to stop judging your unconventional love life.

  45. Ruth (UK)*

    I tried busking for the first time last Saturday, playing the violin (I live in a city that allows busking in specified areas without a license, with certain rules about timings, amplification, etc). I’ve performed before, but not busking, and not alone like that.

    I had a better time than I thought I would have – I was received very positively, with people stopping to listen, some people saying nice things about my playing, and thumbs up etc from people passing by who couldn’t/didn’t give me any money.

    I averaged £12 an hour (which is more than I am paid at my regular job).

    I’m definitely planning to do it again and wish I’d tried it sooner. It’s a great thing for me as I could use the extra money, but I’m not reliant on it as a source of income (not planning to quit the day-job over it), so it’s not a problem if I have a bad spot/day with it.

    I’ve even had another person I know [another fiddle player who already busks regularly] ask if I’ll busk together with her as a duo, which I’m excited to do.

    I’m feeling very positive about it this week!

    1. revueller*

      congrats! as a former violin player, it always delights me to see violin buskers, even if i don’t have cash to give them. best of luck going forward and especially with the duo!

    2. OperaArt*

      Interesting. Did you have your music selected in advance? Did you modify what you chose yo play based on people’s reactions?

      1. Ruth (UK)*

        I have played violin since I was a kid (I’m 30) but with a gap in my later teen years. I primarily play folk tunes these days, and I often attend folk sessions etc. So I made a bit of a mental list of some tunes I planned to play, but nothing very set. I mostly just played what I felt like.

        I definitely got more money for slower tunes and waltzes. I said this to a friend of mine who is a melodeon player and used to busk when he was younger (he’s a lot older than me) but doesn’t really anymore. He said, “it’s no good playing marching tunes – people will get in time with it as they walk and march right on past. Play waltzes. It gets them out of step and once they’ve stopped, they might pay you.”

        But mostly, I just played the first tune that came into my head each time I’d finished the previous one. Also, I tend to put/play certain tunes together into sets, so some naturally follow others for me.

    3. Muriel Heslop*

      I am completely untalented in any busking way but I LOVE it so much. I’m raising two kids to love and appreciate it (we have a few places around town with regular busking) so I love to hear that people enjoy doing it. Thank you!

      1. Ruth (UK)*

        This was my first time properly busking by playing violin, and busking alone before, but I have been involved in the folk community and done other forms of street performance (but think more like at a festival/event, sometimes in/through a town, rather than being a lone busker) over the years. I know a lot of people who busk with various levels of frequency. Generally, I think when people choose to perform like that, it’s something they do because they enjoy it. It’s not really a stable income, so the people who do it tend to do it because they love it, not because it’s a great money-maker (though some London-based buskers can make a lot). Like, they wouldn’t do it if they made nothing, but the amount they’re making isn’t the key driver.

    4. Lily Rowan*

      That’s awesome!

      I have definitely seen buskers with a sign that included their venmo/other payment app info, and have heard that they do get real money that way from people who aren’t carrying cash. For what that’s worth.

      1. Ruth (UK)*

        Thank you. I probably would not get one at the moment because of the city I’m in – we’re still quite a cash carrying city. In London, I imagine people have to have them these days, but I’ve seen some comments from buskers online saying that in cities where they’re less common, they tend to receive a negative reception. One person commented they got a bit of a ‘how dare they!’ vibe.

        The main busking spots where I am are near the market, and you need cash for a lot of those stalls, so the people in the area tend to have cash on them – which makes it a great spot.

    5. Warm Weighty Wrists*

      I’m so glad it went well for you! I love to encounter busking when walking around a city, and always try to give something.

    6. Emilitron*

      That’s awesome! I busked occasionally while I was in school, and while I wasn’t doing it specifically to earn money, it was a time in my life when that extra $40 was enough to be a real treat. I haven’t busked since I got a full-time job, but whenever I see buskers I think of that time in my life and how awesome it was to find the occasional $10 bill among the $1s.

  46. D.W.*

    I previously mentioned that my org laid off staff due to the loss of a large grant. My team was affected the most and our team is very small now and even more spread out geographically. We have members in at least 6 states.

    Yesterday, our director asked me and another team member to brainstorm ways that we can bring the team together and build-up morale while still remote. Given that we are operating under major financial loss, free activities or very cheap activities are the aim. Does anyone have ideas on how to team build remotely cheaply or for free?

    2. Veronica Mars*

      One of the things I love to do with my far-off friends is group chat while watching a show/movie. I don’t even like The Bachelor, at all, but I love it with their commentary. Translating that into a work thing, maybe having (obviously during work time, don’t make people stay late for this) a movie watching party could be fun. You could mail little packages of popcorn or something.
      Or, you could get some kind of general not-work-related message board set up.

      But, I mean, I gotta be honest. Sometimes the best team building is just to give people 4 hours extra off on a Friday to go do their own thing with their chosen friends. Because “stress reduction in my personal life / better work life balance” almost always translates to better working relationships.

    3. Moinmoin*

      There’s a name for it that I can’t think of, but taking a free online class together as a group. Or, in a very different direction, DnD sessions.

      1. Putting my nerd hat on*

        D&D and such are really great for team building. People take on different roles, learn to work together to bring out each other’s strengths and support their weaknesses. Common goals are great uniters and slaying monsters is fun.

  47. Anonymous Today*

    I just landed my first job as a manager! I will be starting in 2 weeks and will have 2 direct reports. I’m excited, but pretty nervous. Any advice for me going in?

    1. T. Boone Pickens*

      Congrats! If it’s a sales manager role I highly recommend David Brock’s book, “The Sales Manager Survival Guide”

      1. Anonymous Today*

        I’m in marketing for professional services, so not a sales position, but I appreciate the recommendation!

    2. tab*

      I recommend that in the first few weeks let your reports know that you want to hear from them what they think the challenges aren and if they have ideas for improvements. Then set up a meeting with them to hear their ideas and discuss what you can do to make their jobs easier. It will help you learn about the group, and show them that you value their input.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      When I supervised carrying an attitude of service was key for me. “I am here to serve you.” This branches out in all different directions as time goes on. Serving can be telling a person they need to do X or Y. Keeping people informed of what is necessary so that they can continue being a good employee is critical. Other times serving can be watching/observing long enough to realize that your people need ABC to do their jobs. So you go and purchase each person an ABC.

      It’s also good to keep in mind how little we would get done if they were not there. There is a tendency in management to over look the mundane daily things that need to be done. If the boss had to do all those things PLUS their regular work the boss would never go home at night.

  48. Colette*

    I came in this morning to find 4 of the fluorescent lights above my desk flickering. Yikes! At least now facilities has removed the bulbs.

  49. Nacho*

    I was promoted to quality in the call center I work at at the beginning of the year, and I need a way to tell my boss I think the agents I perform quality checks on take longer than the agents my colleagues perform checks on without it seeming like I’m just making up excuses for missing my numbers.

    Our company has 2 kinds of customers, A and B. Because I’m the only one with any experience with B, I’m the one who evaluates all English B facing agents, plus a few A agents as well. We’re expected to evaluate 10 calls/emails a day, either by sitting with the agent as they take the call/answer the email, or listening to the recorded call/reading the written email. All A calls are recorded and can be reviewed, but only a few B calls are due to different procedures, maybe 1/20 or so. That means a majority of my evaluations are in person, while most of my team mates’ evaluations are done on recorded calls and delivered after the fact.

    It takes longer to review a call in person than it does to pick and listen to a pre-recorded one, and A team leads also seem to ask for less phone evaluations and more emails, which obviously take less time. Also, I can’t prove this, but I feel like B calls are just naturally longer than A calls because they’re more complicated in my experience.

    I believe this is the reason why my numbers are lower than my colleagues: I’m taking longer cases than they are. Is there any way to bring this to my TL’s attention and maybe ask that my expected output be lowered accordingly without seeming lazy? He’s already told me not to worry if I’m not meeting my goal of 50 evaluations a week, but I’d feel a lot better if I had a meetable goal instead of an unmeetable one that people don’t expect me to consistently meet.

    1. Datalie*

      Can you do a time study for a week on the calls you evaluate? Have a paper template where you record the time anything changes– 1. Start of call 2. End of call 3. End of any sort of debrief with the person who took the call. You can also note the complexity of the call. Can one of the quality colleagues on team A do the same thing so you can compare?

      Having data always helps with these conversations!

      Good Luck!

    2. acmx*

      Do you or have any B emails you can evaluate? Can you use A calls/emails to help make your goal when needed?

      Also, since you have to wait for a B call, you will have more lag time than the A calls so maybe you can have your goal adjusted slightly lower and maybe only audit B calls?

    3. Moinmoin*

      Usually call centers keep stats on average handle time by call type, department, employee, etc, so I wouldn’t think it would be that hard to show something like that.

  50. RMNPgirl*

    Question about weekend package workers and PTO.

    How do others in industries with weekend package workers (I’m in healthcare) handle PTO for these employees? We have both full-time (Fri/Sat/Sun or Fri-Mon) and part time (Sat/Sun) weekend workers. They do accrue PTO and we do approve it and work on finding coverage. The issue we’re having is how much PTO is being requested, one weekend multiple months in a row. When one of them is on PTO we have to move around others schedules or pay overtime to cover. Many of them work weekends due to child care or schools so can’t trade shifts with other employees. I understand and am sympathetic that multiple activities happen on weekends, but these employees also agreed to work weekends; that’s the job they accepted with us. What’s a reasonable frequency of PTO? How do I get people to understand that this is what they signed up for?

    1. Person from the Resume*

      I’m confused by your question. If they earn the PTO, they should be able to take it all over the course of the year. Maybe you have to tell someone that someone else or multiple people already requested that weekend off so you can’t approve, but management needs to staff so that employees can take the PTO they earn. That might mean on the rare weekend no one requests off, you’re overstaffed.

      Are you saying that your Fri/Sat/Sun or Fri/Sat/Sun/Mon workers are only taking the weekend days?

    2. Hey There Friday*

      Healthcare here too. Our weekend only folks can only take PTO one weekend/quarter. They also don’t accrue it based on hours worked; they get a lump sum at the beginning of a quarter. They also work whatever holidays fall on the weekend.

    3. Rusty Shackelford*

      Yeah, I’m confused about what the actual problem is. Are they requesting more time off than they have earned? If so, it seems easy to say “sorry, can’t do that.” But if they’ve earned it, they’re going to take it. And if all or most of their work occurs over the weekend, obviously so will all or most of their requests for time off. Do you need to have a pool of substitutes?

      1. RMNPgirl*

        I work in healthcare and weekends are lower volume but still need staff here, so we have fewer staff members than we do during the week. These positions are specifically hired as weekend positions. If someone wants time off we adjust a week-day person’s schedule to cover or have others take on-call time.

        Yes, they have the PTO hours to cover what they’re requesting, but this isn’t an industry where you can just take whatever you want off. We have to be staffed and we’re a non-profit we can’t afford to have more people here just for PTO coverage. We wouldn’t have enough work for people to do, we’d be paying people to sit around and do nothing.

        The issue is that we have people who are asking to basically be gone 25% of the time multiple months in a row. They have the PTO to take it, but we don’t have the coverage to allow someone to be gone that often. So I’m just wondering what other places do that have this situation. How do you tell people that you understand they’re upset about their PTO getting denied, but they agreed to work weekends when they were hired?

        1. Person from the Resume*

          So it sounds like you’re giving them too much PTO if what they earn is allowing them to be off 25% of the time or simply too much of the time you need them to work for. I work a M-F schedule and I don’t have the option to take 1 week off out of every 4 weeks which is what 25% is equal to.

          The other thing to do is implement a policy that for example only a single person on a shift can take PTO at a time and enforce it. You’ll need also need a policy to manage how requests are made. First requested granted might be good for a normal week, but not busy holiday season.

          You can also have rules that a Fri/Sat/Sun worker cannot ONLY take Sat/Sun, and a Fri/Sat/Sun/Mon worker cannot only take only Sat/Sun. This will reduce the number only weekend days those employees take off. It sounds like you can get coverage a lot easier for a Friday or Monday than the weekend.

          1. Half-Caf Latte*

            I didn’t read it like that, I read it more like someone has accrued time and now wants to spend down their bank but OP hasn’t got any coverage options.

        2. Inga*

          I understand where you’re coming from, but I used to work on the other side of this as a weekend employee in a hospital and once weekend employees got denied their requests they just started calling out “sick” instead. If there was a weekend they absolutely knew they didn’t want to chance a denied request, they wouldn’t bother putting one in and instead called out and then it was an unplanned vacancy that everyone had to scramble around versus something where people could schedule over time. I don’t know that there’s a great solution to it other than having more staffing or having a pool of per diem employees you could call on.

        3. HBJ*

          Why are you giving them that much PTO? It’s not a benefit, and it’s incredibly misleading if you give them, say, 15 days of PTO in their offer, but then in practice, you only allow them to take 10.

          I hope at the least you’re paying out what’s accrued when they leave and not allowing it to expire if you’re not going to let them take it!

        4. blaise zamboni*

          Yeah there may be a mismatch in how much PTO you’re offering these employees. I get that they are specifically hired to work weekend hours. But if they’re weekend-only, it’s not like they can use their PTO to take longer chunks of time off — all of their PTO will fall on weekends, and all of their PTO will be inconvenient for the other employees because of your staffing levels.

          It may be time for your org to reassess how much PTO they can realistically offer these employees, assuming that the employees will, in fact, use all of that PTO on days that they are normally scheduled to work. But if you do that, make sure you give advance notice for any looming important holidays and pay out any PTO that is banked. Also consider increasing base salary to offset the reduction of this benefit.

        5. Darren*

          It sounds like you need more weekend employees or to have them better structure their PTO.

          Basically if they get the kind of leave you indicate, you need to have it so you can handle X amount of weekend employees being off on any given day. You then make it clear that only X amount can be off on any given day, and make a system for them to request leave appropriately (maybe a month in advance typically, but for exceptional things they can book further out) such that you will never have more than X people scheduled off on any given day.

          If you could afford larger buffers you can be much more flexible with this, but it has to be legitimately possible for all your employees to use all of their leave per year. If they can’t (i.e. absolutely no slack and they have any leave at all) then you need extra people to cover it. You can run these calculations with the assumption that each day worked is close to equally likely to be taken off, but if your mostly weekend employees only ever want to take weekend days off your system is basically going to have to force them in that case to take on average each day of the week off.

        6. Half-Caf Latte*

          Also in non profit healthcare, but we still budget for nonproductive time for clinical staff, to allow for PTO. Say, 87% of their regular hours are expected to be spent in patient care, and 13% for pto/sick/training/etc.

          It sounds like you don’t budget at all for that 13%?

        7. Half-Caf Latte*

          Do you have a set staffing count per day, or do you flex in real-time to match demand? My inpatient unit regular schedules 7 RNs for predicted census levels, but low census means RNs get sent home and high census means phone calls for OT or borrowing from the float pool.

          Also, in my experience, the weekend program is used as a perk for the rest of the staff to reduce their weekend obligations. So not M-F people and weekend people, but “regular” full time, and weekend program people. Without the weekend program, all full time staff would have needed to cover 3-4 weekend shifts a month. With the weekend program, this could be reduced to 1-2, but it was never zero. Maybe your Monday to Friday staff need to be expected to cover a set number of weekends, and PTO requests need to be in advance of when the schedule is made?

    4. Fikly*

      You need to either have enough staffing in place to cover the PTO you offer, or cut the PTO.

      I worked in healthcare, and because my shift did not have coverage, I basically was not allowed to take my PTO. It made me really angry, because essentially my employer was stealing from me.

      Your employees did not sign up for not being allowed to take the PTO their employer told them they could have.

  51. INeedSomeoneToTellMeWhatToDo*

    My old job that I loved minus the c-suite just asked me what it would take to come back. I left 2.5 years because I felt my integrity was being threatened by some choices the leadership team made (nothing illegal but felt skeezy) but now 2/3 have since left. I like my current job but I’m not as busy nor doing as interesting work as I was before. The culture is great and it’s cushy but a few fiscal issues have risen. I responded with a high dollar, PTO, and title amount that I’m sure they won’t meet. But what if they come close? How do I determine my cutoff? Is it a terrible idea to go back and work for a place you left?

    1. AvonLady Barksdale*

      See what they say. If they come back saying they’ll meet your number, that doesn’t mean you have to take the job. If they can meet your number, can you ask to go in and meet with someone to discuss?

      It’s not a terrible idea to go back to a place you left unless the reasons you left are still there. But it’s also not something you need to jump at.

    2. Bubbles*

      Is there someone you trust who would tell you honestly what the culture is like now that a few of those Cs have left? If so, that would be the starting point for me.

        1. Ama*

          One of my current coworkers basically did this. She left partly due to someone at C-level who she had to work with frequently and had a lot of run-ins with (all caused by C-level’s behavior) and partly to take a job at a higher level that wasn’t available at our org at the time. 18 months later, she really didn’t love the new job (it wasn’t quite what they had made it out to be), the problem C-level at our org had been fired, and our CEO reached out to her because we were creating the higher level position she had wanted. So she came back — and she seems to be very happy with her decision.

    3. SweetestCin*

      How likely is the situation that caused you to leave to recur?

      I’ve been in a similar situation and actually declined to give a “what would it take?” because I saw the situation (that caused me to leave) occur from scratch in less than 8 months of time. There was nothing that I could’ve done in my position to prevent the situation from happening as it did, short of leaving earlier.

      I wouldn’t go back because the cause of the situation was external and truly could happen again, in my case.

    4. Hillary*

      I know someone whose answer to this question was that certain leaders had to be gone for him to return, along with a substantial pay increase. That response (which came from lots of recently departed employees) led to investigations, people getting fired, and finally some of the people who’d left returning.

      If you know the culture has improved and pay etc are worth making a change, go for it.

    5. sparklejaffe*

      I would be hesitant. I have gone back to two jobs three times and another one twice and my sister also returned to a workplace twice (maybe thrice) and on every single one of those occasions we found that nothing had changed (or it had for the worst) and we were quickly reminded why we were so keen to leave previously. Annoying people, unsatisfying work, bad work environment… one example I have is, like you, I left because of terrible management. While I was away that management moved on. I heard who my new boss was and I was really excited, I thought she was terrific and would be great in the role and great as a manager. She was worse. It was a massive let down. Also, it turned out that previous boss wasn’t the only problem, all the other problems still existed and it turned out she actually protected us from a lot, so without her iron fist things really got out of control. I’m not telling you to not do it, just to really think about it.

    7. Not So NewReader*

      You are saying you are not as busy and the work is less interesting in Current Job.
      This is actually separate from the idea of taking back the Old Job.

      If Old Job had not reached out to you would you be looking to change? In other words does what is going on with Current Place stand alone as a reason to change jobs?

      You left for a reason. Will you be able to trust this company to behave now? Are you interested enough to go through the work of reestablishing that lost trust?

  52. Time tracking*

    Does anyone who’s salaried exempt need to track one’s time in minute detail? What are your strategies for doing so accurately?

    My partner’s company just started requiring this of them. (They are not in law and do not have billable hours, this seems like an internal metrics thing). I’ve always had to fill out time sheets despite being salaried but only to the extent of “spent 2 hours grooming red llamas, spent 1 hour in a meeting about blue llamas, spent 3 hours quality controlling the green llama grooming.”

    They are having to track in more detail – think, “it took me x minutes to walk to the pen where llamas are kept, y minutes to bring the llama to the grooming area, z minutes to groom the llama’s face, q minutes to groom the llama’s left front leg…” They’re chafing at this requirement and having a hard time balancing the time tracking with, you know, actually doing their job accurately.

    I know lawyers have to do something similar so I’m wondering what strategies work. A stopwatch? I know there are apps that can track this but my partner isn’t allowed to install anything onto their computer. And, how do you balance that with also keeping all the details of your work in your head and concentrating on it? They find that they get really focused on a task and then realize that they haven’t been noting how many minutes it took to perform each tiny part of the task.

    1. Someone Else*

      I had to do this at one job, we even had to input the amount of time spent filling out the time tracker document. It was crazy, but I found that I did the same types of tasks over and over again, so I kept them listed as a template, and then wrote the start and end time for each task on a notepad.

      1. Time tracking*

        That’s a good idea. Thank you, I will pass that along.
        I too worked somewhere where we had a time code for time spent filling out one’s time log….

    2. Coverage Associate*

      I use a Timeular even though I had to buy it myself and only have the software on my personal phone. I just copy its records into my office’s timekeeping software.

    3. FormerFirstTimer*

      We are actually being asked to do that. It’s so we can track how much money certain parts of the business bring in vs. how much labor cost goes into them. It’s a pain but it makes sense.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        This is why I had to do it for one job.

        Fortunately, I chatted with the boss. He said he felt the numbers would be 75% X and 25% Y.
        Since everyone thought it was pretty much a farce, I did not worry about it too much. Even the boss eye-rolled. At the end of each week I filled the chart out for the whole week, making sure the numbers landed about where my boss said.

    4. andy*

      Honestly, measure twice and then repeat same numbera. Or make up numbers. Chances are, management will forget about this all rather quickly, when they find different area to micromanage. When it happens, start reporting normally again.

  53. Lady Jay*

    Y’ALL. How do you deal with job anxiety around the coronavirus / stock market crash / general sense of doom & gloom in the workforce? I’m currently in the middle of a doc program (which for what it’s worth, I returned to as an adult; I’m not in my 20s anymore and had a real job for a long time before I went back).

    Though I have some strategies built up to ward off anxiety (regular exercise, good hours, self-talk, etc) this week it’s felt as though the world is falling apart around us. I’ve been worried about finding a job after I graduate, now I’m even more worried about finding a job after I graduate, any job, worried about the impact of coronavirus on my (classroom-based) research, worried about my students, just . . . worried.

    I’m not really looking for “buck up” comments so much as I’m curious about how other people are handling the uncertainty and professional disaster which seems to be looming over the horizon for all of us.

    1. blink14*

      I think a huge part of this is not to track the stock market/economy news closely. We’re living in a world of unprecedented, non-stop media coverage, and it is known that this can cause increased anxiety and depression. I’m more focused on the actual details on the coronavirus, as someone with chronic health conditions, and for me personally I find that checking the CNN running coronavirus updates a few times a day keeps my anxiety about it in check. The university I work for is putting contingency plans in place and is communicating regularly with the community.

      I am trying to focus on the present, by preparing myself for potentially being at home for long periods of time, watching my medication stash closely, making sure I’m ready to work from home, etc. This whole thing may end up having a positive effect on the US economy by bringing manufacturing back on home soil. There is much more to the minute coverage and ability to make decisions than during the last recession (this can also be a major negative). I think we all just have to stick to as much normalcy as possible, while preparing for a wider virus outbreak. Focus on what you can do, like buying extra food and water, having cash and extra medications on hand, making sure you can connect to any networks you need off-site, etc.

    2. Admin of Sys*

      Mostly I’m holding onto the ‘this too shall pass’ mindset. Covid19 is running a little bit less than the spanish flu case fatality rate, but not by much. The 1918 outbreak was probably less over-all deadly as a virus than this one because folks with covid19 are dying even with all the antibiotics and care we can offer, vs the mostly untreated results of the 1918s. That said, the spanish flu happened, and then it stopped. Most outbreaks like this run through the population and then stop.
      Similarly, the market is currently in free-fall, but it’s done that before. It may take some time to recover (and I’m rather worried about my folks who are reliant on retirement investments) but the market falls and then it recovers and comes back up. If we can hold on through the (relatively) short-term outbreak and the market flinch, folks will develop an immunity to the virus, the markets will recover, and we’ll continue on.

      1. Count Boochie Flagrante*

        There’s also some thought I’ve seen that the coronavirus mortality is probably lower than is being reported, as people who have the virus but don’t develop the illness are by and large not getting tested or factored into the numbers.

        1. Admin of Sys*

          Very good point. The 2009 H1N1 outbreak originally had like a 10% cfr until they realized how many folks just assumed they had a normal flu or cold and never reported themselves as sick to be tested for that particular virus.

        2. RVA Cat*

          This. Plus the numbers are lower outside Wuhan, where the hospitals were overwhelmed. One thing I’m holding onto is that so far is that children seem more resilient against this virus.

          Meanwhile about the stock market – don’t sell out of your retirement accounts unless you absolutely need the money now. Remember any contributions will grow like crazy in the recovery. (I was in the business during the ’08 downturn and it was…traumatic, but this too shall pass.)

          1. Count Boochie Flagrante*

            ^ THIS

            We’re inundated with clients right now who are panicking and wanting to sell out, and it’s all we can do to keep them calm. Don’t sell when the slide is already in place!

        3. blink14*

          Yes – there are a handful of countries that either border China or have a direct relation to Chinese residents of the Wuhan area, and haven’t reported any known cases of the virus. There is an increasing possibility these countries are either purposely covering up an outbreak or simply do not have the means to test, but it is becoming very unlikely that the virus hasn’t hit those countries yet.

          1. Amy Sly*

            Well, in North Korea they may have shot at least one carrier for breaking quarantine to maintain their official “no cases” status.

            International Business Times has the story.

            1. blink14*

              I am SO fascinated by the North Korea experience in all of this. Is it running rampant and no one knows? Will it wipe out the country? So many questions. It was literally the first thing I thought of when the news in China first broke – what will happen in North Korea and can their infrastructure handle it.

              1. Amy Sly*

                My bet is no, they can’t handle it.
                1) The Chinese-North Korean border leaks like a sieve.
                2) The population is desperately poor and malnourished, to the point of being 2.5″ shorter than their South Korean counterparts.
                3) The elite party members and generals are like feudal lords who think rules are what happen to other people. The guy who allegedly got shot? Not only was he exposed, he was under quarantine but decided to go to a bathhouse. (So I honestly don’t have a lot of sympathy for him; he may well be the vector that infects the whole country and kills thousands.)

    3. Amy Sly*

      Focus on what you can control. For me re: corona, that’s several things: limiting my news diet, stocking the pantry/freezer with enough food to survive a two week quarantine, refilling my prescriptions, cleaning my house so that surfaces I may have to sanitize aren’t cluttered, and minimizing expenses so that we can still pay bills if my husband is sent home from his restaurant job for lack of customers.

      Job/career wise: again, focus on your circle of influence. Use Alison’s guides for crafting your resume and cover letter template. Heck, start job hunting now! Look over job postings and see if there’s something you could do now in your program to make you more competitive, like becoming more proficient with a commonly used software.

      Lifestyle: Housework in particular makes for an excellent anxiety treatment: it’s low mental energy but physically demanding, plus at the end, you have a clean living space which has been clinically proven to lower cortisol levels and other physical indicia of stress. Crafting, particularly a craft with lots of repetitive actions like yarn and needle crafts or coloring or even Diamond Dots mosaics, is one of my go-to anxiety displacement activities. Go through self-care activities, like long baths or painting your nails, that you might not do normally. Just try not to self-medicate with alcohol; that can create new problems.

    4. Count Boochie Flagrante*

      With the stock market, I’m reminding myself of what I already know perfectly well — market fluctuations happen, they are by and large not the end of the world, and sooner or later speculators are going to start buying all the newly-reduced but perfectly functional companies and start driving the market right back up again. (I may have a few trailing buys placed to jump on the inevitable turnaround, too.)

      Granted, I’ve got a certain amount of privilege in saying this, because all my investments are in IRAs and the 401k, which I won’t need (knock on wood) for another three decades and change. I can weather a market correction and treat it as an opportunity.

    5. Anon for the Moment*

      I like to be prepared so that’s what I’m doing.
      * Called elderly relatives to find out if they need anything supply-related. Discussed possibility of them asking their doctors to give them 90 day instead of 30 day prescriptions. Offered to drive them wherever they needed to do these things.
      * Called my doctors to do the same (not sure it’s gonna work for one of my scripts, but I’ll deal with that later)
      * Went to the drug store and loaded up on the stuff I would buy for a cold/flu
      * Went to the supermarket and bought shelf-stable things that I would want for cold/flu (broths, juice, crackers) as well as shelf-stable/items I can freeze for if I’m trying to limit my contact with other people
      * Got some extra cash. I typically don’t have any on hand, but I’m thinking it’s good practice to have some just in case.

      I figure this is all stuff I should have on hand in case of emergencies anyway.

      Also,
      *Trying not to touch my face, but somehow it’s making me want to touch my face?
      *Finding myself singing the ABCs to myself as I wash my hands a lot more than I used to.

      I am now checking multiple public health sites, national and international, as apparently we can no longer entirely rely on the federal government to be accurate or direct regarding public health matters. Something I never thought I would say. But I stop looking about 2 hours before bedtime because otherwise…

      That’s me. I don’t know if this is something that long term is going to be an issue. I’m just trying to plan for the next few weeks/month.

      Rationally, I know I am over anxious on this, but this is how I am.

    6. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      The stock market bounce back is just around the corner IMO. The markets have a short memory.

      From my UK neck of the woods stocks and shares (which I’m heavily invested in) have fallen significant %s these last few days.. due to coronovirus. everyone selling off.

      FTSE 100/250 and Wall Street having their worst week since 2008 [global economic meltdown] …. I have taken the opportunity by the horns and invested more money into certain shares/funds that are currently on a downturn…

      This is not financial advice……… I’m generally a contrarian investor.

      Just know that the world isn’t falling apart, it isn’t the Armageddon it’s made out to be. Yes, there have been some deaths (like from flu every year, and generally the same type of people e.g. very old, immunocompromised, etc) but the “unknown” factor seems to be spooking everyone.

    7. Mameshiba*

      Try to focus on facts and reality as much as possible.
      I’m typing this from Japan, which has just shut down schools and implemented major social distancing measures.
      The good news is that today is my first day ever working from home! I can put in dinner at lunch and don’t have to fight crazy rush hour crowds. I can work in my PJs.
      We are experiencing toilet paper and mask shortages. But Love is Blind on Netflix was very engrossing and made me relieved about my own situation (not giving my dog wine!)
      Also these kinds of catastrophes have happened in the past–think 1918 Spanish flu while WWI (“the war to end all wars”) is coming to an end. If the world didn’t end then it won’t now, it’ll just change.

  54. basicbeotch*

    Has anyone had commentary made to them in an official capacity regrading being flushed? I was told in a check in that sometimes I am red and it makes me look like I am not confident. I am pale skinned and Irish, with some Rosacea. I know I turn red when I am happy, angry, hot, cold, anything can make me flush at any given time. I am looking for some talking points to come back with on this. I know I command a room or a call, and I don’t think that me having skin that reddens sometimes has any impact on my job performance. Any help is apprecaited!

    1. Not a Real Giraffe*

      This happens to my coworker. We have one rather misogynistic male colleague who always comments on how “emotional” my coworker is (aka she is expressing any sort of opinion that is not his exact opinion) and he’ll often say things like, “your face is all red! You’re so emotional!” (yes, he is a problem; no, we cannot seem to get rid of him) and my coworker will respond deadpan with, “this is just my face.” It seems to shut him down in the moment.

      1. JessicaTate*

        Agreed. “No, that’s just what my face looks like” is my go-to response whenever anyone feels the need to comment on what they are reading into my physical appearance — flushed cheeks, furrowed brow, lack of smile, whatever. If it were a boss saying this as a critique, I might follow that with an ask: “Is there anything in what I do indicating to you that I lack confidence?” If there’s an answer, I want to hear it. If not, I kind of want to underscore that you are passing judgement based on my skin.

      2. ...*

        Yup. I get this too “You are SO PALE you MUST BE ILL”. I say “nope this is my face” and people will actually counter with “There is no way you could actually look like that” and I’m like….yet here we are. I just say yup this is my face over and over again.

    2. blink14*

      YES. WELCOME TO MY LIFE. I am also pale skinned, of Irish descent, and have Rosacea. Pretty much any situation can cause redness: angry, happy, sad, crying, hot, cold, wind, sun, humidity, talking in front of multiple people, having someone pay too much attention to me, exercise, feeling like there’s too much attention. This actually often has to do with the fact that in people of Western European descent, the blood vessels can be closer to the skin, and since those of that descent are generally on the pale side, it becomes very obvious.

      Honestly, best thing for me is to say “oh thanks for letting me know! I’m Irish and it just happens all the time!” or “Oh, I was just outside, it’s the cold/wind/heat/humidity/sun!” I keep it light and breezy. Because, the more attention to it, the MORE red I will get!

      Weather and/or temp related redness I can’t do much about except wait for it to go away. Other redness, more emotionally related, I can somewhat control by taking deep calming breaths, putting a cool cloth on my neck, and stepping into a private space for a few minutes.

    3. Someone Else*

      I wear makeup at work every day on my face neck, and upper chest because of this exact issue. I can’t help that my skin turns red, but I have gotten the same comments. Even when I am not feeling the emotion the person is attributing to my flushing.

    4. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Ugh, that stinks. I turn red and am naturally kind of red and when people say something (usually, “Ooh, you got some sun!”) I usually just respond and say no, I’m just naturally red.

      While it kind of sucks to have to do this, I wear scarves when I interview or present so I cover up my reddening chest. Bonus that I love scarves and have a great collection in all kinds of colors and patterns. Measures like that will help you avoid the comments. I know you shouldn’t get them in the first place, though.

      1. Person from the Resume*

        Ha! On Sunday some people told me I was sunburned. I didn’t think I was and as it turned out I was not. It was on one of the lady’s minds because she had gotten sunburned on Saturday.

        But i seem to have developer Rosia and it’s annoying.

    5. Muriel Heslop*

      Same to all of the above. It’s so frustrating! My students often comment on how red/pink I am and it’s a great opportunity to discuss why we don’t comment on or judge people’s skin color (sadly, many adults still need that lesson.) I say: this is just my skin color. And I say nothing else. What is there to say?

      On a recommendation, I started using Dr. Jart+ Cicapair Tiger Grass Color Correcting Treatment SPF30. It neutralizes the redness in my skin and I’ve weaned myself of a heavier foundation (which I have worn to counteract the redness.) I think my skin is healthier without the foundation and the cream really neutralizes the red (though my nice red cheeks still show through a little.) It’s really helped me so I thought I would share.

      Good luck! I really relate so hard to this post.

      1. blink14*

        Clinique Redness Solutions foundation is awesome, I’ve used it for years! Every once and awhile I’ll try a new foundation sample, and that reaffirms how much a difference the Clinique foundation makes in neutralizing the redness.

        1. Mockingjay*

          Second the Clinique Redness Solutions! I haven’t been back to the dermatologist since I started using. The daily cream is my lifesaver.

          Also, identify your Rosacea triggers. Mine are alcohol and caffeine, so I quit drinking alcohol completely, and limit caffeine to two cups of coffee in the morning. (Tea doesn’t seem to trigger it.) Breathable fabrics also help.

          I still have red arms and neck, but I don’t worry about them.

          1. blink14*

            Great idea on the triggers – mine seem to be organic milk (weird but has to do with ultra pasteurization), alcohol, heat, and humidity.

            I also use a prescription topical cream – that really got it under control after about 9 months of dedicated use, and now I use it 1-2 times per day, depending on if I’m having a flare up.

      2. CrookedLily*

        This is exactly what I’d like to think I would do in basicbeotch’s situation – in response to the “official commentary”, say, “I hardly think it’s appropriate to be commenting on my skin color or whether it affects my performance or my credibility at work.” Then see how red they turn.

    7. MommyShark*

      I deal with something similar, though it has improved as I’ve gotten older.

      I typically laugh and tell them I turn red easily and change the subject.

    8. Quiznakit*

      No advice, just solidarity. People like to worry over my red face (which goes red at the barest change in circumstances) because I’m a fat lady and therefore must have high blood pressure and shouldn’t I go see the nurse just in case?

      I do my best to smile serenely and let them know that a) it’s none of their beeswax and b) my doctor is perfectly satisfied with my blood pressure.

    9. Goldfinch*

      I have mild rosacea. I say so, the first time it comes up. If it happens again, I ask the person to “please stop commenting on my medical condition”. It’s polite, but sounds HR-ish enough to get the point across.

    10. Marthooh*

      Ugh, what a jerk. But out loud, just say “I don’t understand why that’s a problem.” Repeat as needed. Maybe change it up with “I don’t understand why that’s a problem for you.”

    11. CM*

      “I guess with my genetics, looking flushed sometimes is just my cross to bear. I’m not sure what you’re expecting me to do about it?”

      “I really hope people can tell I feel confident based on the way I’m talking, but, if they judge me based on whether I look flushed, there’s not much I can do about it. I guess I’ll have a steeper hill to climb to win them over.”

      “You’re right that people can be prejudiced about things like that, but I like the way I look, and I hope the content of what I’m saying and the confidence I say it with make up for whatever judgements they might have about my face. Do you have any feedback about what I was saying?”

    12. Hester Prynne isn't here for it*

      Not any help and not me, but my mom. She’s a pale red head with Rosacea on her nose. She interviewed for a job, didn’t get it. Interviewed for a different job in another department and did. A couple of years later, the boss of the original job walked up to her and said they were sorry they hadn’t hired her but they thought the flush on her nose indicated a drinking problem. Then asked if she was interested in a job opening they had coming up. Mom hard passed on the “opportunity.”

  55. Free Meercats*

    I’ll be going to Nashville for our national workshop in May. It will be, and I’ll be staying in, the Marriott next to Vanderbilt. I’ll have some free time in the evenings, so I’m looking for ideas.

    I haven’t been to Nashville since I was 15, back in the early 70s. I know I’ll wander around the Parthenon, it’s right across the street and has memories from an earlier visit in the late 60s. Any other suggestions?

    1. basicbeotch*

      You definitely need to hit the Broadway area. There’s a bunch of fun things on that strip, and the Country Music Hall of Fame is right there too.

    2. Niniel*

      There are great restaurants in a neighborhood called The Gulch.

      There is also a fantastic coffee shop with a few locations called the Frothy Monkey! I highly recommend it.

    3. CTT*

      Nashville is a really great food city, so I would do some research on where to eat! I especially love Rolf and Daughters and Dozen Bakery (unlike Ninel, I’m neutral on Frothy Monkey – their food is never memorable to me – but the coffee is good and they have a cute location in 12 South).

    4. NDR*

      We have a great little Farmers Market that should be in full swing by May. It has great local vendors/farms in the outside shed and a pretty diverse food court inside. Adjacent to it is my favorite park (Bicentennial Mall State Park), which has an easy walking loop, some installation pieces, and bells that play Tennessee-related songs on the hour. Sharing the parking lot with the Farmers Market is the new State Museum. It’s free and has interesting exhibits. That whole area would be a nice 2-3 hour excursion with food, fresh air, and a little history.

      Not far from that is the old Marathon Motorworks building which houses the American Pickers store, a distillery, a brewery, and assorted shops. It also has displays from the old factory peppered throughout.

      Both of these destinations are on the trolley route. I don’t know a ton about the trolley, but it’s a hop-on/hop-off combo of transportation and local information (and seems super popular). If you won’t have a car, it could be a good way to see a few sights.

    5. Arts Akimbo*

      Yay!! Yes, definitely do the Parthenon! You will not believe how Centennial park has thrived over the years! Also, if you’re in the Vanderbilt area, you’re close to one of my favorite coffee haunts, Fido in Hillsboro Village. Good food, good beer, great coffee! Being near Vandy, it can be super-crowded, though, so try to hit it at an off-hour. Ditto the Pancake Pantry, ditto Biscuit Love.

      If you’re having lunch near Centennial though, I personally recommend Samurai Sushi on Elliston Place. Bypass the flashy gentrified sushi places and go for the family business! :) I’ve known them for, like, ever! There’s also a Krispy Kreme nearby! :)

      Depending where in the Vandy area you’ll be, there’s a San Antonio Taco Company near Scarritt-Bennet, also a Ben & Jerry’s. And a ton of other cool little places.

      I second the recommendations of the restaurants in the Gulch. The Eastern Peak is good, and I love Chauhan Ale & Masala House. There’s a cool ramen place over there as well (can’t remember the name). There’s 16 Bit Beer + Arcade right across the way from Eastern Peak and Chauhan if you like drinking while playing fun arcade games from eras past! But also, barcades are A Thing in Nashville right now and you can find them in many parts of town, just check whatever area you happen to be in!

      If you’re over in that general Broadway/Gulch area you could maybe check out the Frist Art Museum– they’re having a JMW Turner exhibit right now! Maybe stop in to the Flying Saucer if you’re into quirky bars.

      This might be a long shot if you’ve only got one night here, but our favorite thing to do is hit the Schermerhorn! We have a world-class symphony orchestra with a world-class conductor, and we get told by visiting conductors all the time how incredible the acoustics of our symphony hall are. And there is NEVER a bad program! Giancarlo is the best at picking awesome music that goes awesomely together, and there’s often a Q&A session before and/or after! Definitely, definitely do not drive there, though. Take a Lyft or something. Traffic in that area is an absolute beast, and parking is ridiculous. (We have a sneaky free parking lot that we go to, but it’s really hard to describe where it is, and you have to walk a bit from there.)

      Ok, I could talk about this forever, so I will just post this and leave you in peace, LOL!! :) Welcome back!

  56. Gwen*

    Is there such a thing as a third-life crisis? I’ve been frustrated/stressed with my job lately and looking around, but I’m also second-guessing my career in general. I think some part of me has always felt like a “sell out” for getting a Real Job instead of really dedicating myself to making it as a creative. I know that it’s on me to do more creative work in my spare time, but when I write work stuff all day, I feel like I don’t have any energy to write for fun. Anyone have advice for getting over this hump? I know that a new job might just be what I need, but I also worry I’ll always be vaguely dissatisfied

    1. ET*

      Are there things that you could do to raise your energy level in general? (Exercise, sleep, nutrition, assessment for depression, all that jazz.) Have you been in the workforce long enough to adapt to the 40-hour work week? (I’m near the end of my fifth year of full-time work and still haven’t adapted.) Is there anyone around you who you could get into a low-stakes creative partnership with and bounce ideas and enthusiasm off of? (Co-authors, fellow brainstormers, role-playing game partners sometimes?) Is it possible to go into a job that takes a little less of your energy but still pays enough/has good enough health care to live comfortably?

    2. Amy Sly*

      I’d suggest the blog “Mad Genius Club” for writing advice of all kinds: how to balance writing and a paying career, how to turn writing into your primary career, how to publish, how to deal with publishers, etc.

      I would start though by reframing your idea about working a regular job as “selling out.” There are essentially two types of writers: people who take it as seriously as any job and work as hard at it as they would a regular job, and writers who die having minimally published, if at all. If you want writing to be your second or part-time job, treat it like one with regularly scheduled work hours that you put in, whether you feel like it or not.

  57. New Fed Here*

    I am a year into my federal job. I have no idea how to actually DO my job, as while the general skill set is not uncommon, as it applies to the federal government with its proprietary network applications and FARs is something so very specialized, very few people actually know how to do it. There are a small handful of consulting firms in the country who DO the actual work. My boss keeps saying I am doing a great job: I am articulate, bright, easy to get along with, etc etc etc. I imagine I will be able to pick up a lot as I go along, but the training for these applications just. doesn’t. even. exist.

    My question is: is this something that other federal workers experience? Or am I in over my head?

    1. CheeryO*

      Not fed, but state government (in a federally-mandated/authorized program, so semantics, really) – this sounds normal to me. For me, it’s both lack of training/resources and extensive gray areas in our agency regulations and standard practices. You will eventually become the expert, but it’ll take some time to get there. In the meantime, keep doing what you’re doing and try not to let the impostor syndrome get to you. If there are any people you could mine for knowledge or any industry groups that you could get involved with, then do it, but it sounds like that may not be the case for you.

    2. Quiznakit*

      My first position didn’t have any kind of formal documentation of what went into it and no systematic training in place for newbies. I’m the kind of person who writes everything down, so now that role has an unofficial manual that I believe is still in circulation.

      In other words, this is pretty normal. Any documentation you might be able to put together as you learn will surely be appreciated by those who come after.

      Good luck!

    3. Cog in the Machine*

      Does your agency have a mentoring program, either formally or informally? They can really help. If not, find a coworker who is in the same position you are, has been there for several years, and who is a decent employee. It tends to be agency specific, but most people don’t mind answering questions.

  58. Anonsy-non*

    Well, I asked payroll to give me a corrected W-2 that showed my pre-tax HSA contributions in Box 12, with Code W. I got it, and apparently triggered a correction for everyone in the organization who uses that health plan. Now to figure out how to ask to get last year’s W-2 corrected, which has the same problem, as apparently Code W has never been used since the HDHP plan + HSA has been offered… Not looking forward to filing an amendment for 2018, but I’d rather have it done correctly than wait and see if the IRS finds out.

  59. squids*

    This week I talked a teenage relative through the process of quitting her first part-time job. It went really smoothly, and I wouldn’t have had such helpful advice if not for this site. :)

  60. dorothyparker*

    For ppl who work for an organization with actual salary transparency: what does that look like? I’m trying to start pushing for it at my company but I’m not sure what to push for.

    Right now, there’s no published info that I can find about salary ranges. We are non-profit so highest paid is public information but down the ladder, no one knows what the pay is at different levels except through trading salary details with other staff. Our managers also don’t get to have a say in our salaries (or even know them). Our department head has to go to our CEO and head of HR to make our case and then they get to review whether or not we deserve a raise. I learned that, while I’m an ultra-high performing member of my team and next in line to lead the program, I’m at the very bottom of the salary range for my level. I personally will ask for a raise based on a LONG list of contributions, but I think it’s way more critical that our leadership be open about salary.

    1. Admin of Sys*

      I used to work for a state university, so all pay was public. Every year, they published everybody’s salary by name and included their position and I think how long folks had been in said position (possibly it was just how long they’d worked for the university). It got sent to the local newspaper, though I think that was an agreement with the news media because, again, state school. In a corporation, I’d say it make more sense to publish it internally somewhere – similar to how vacation accrual is posted.
      I am very for salary transparency, since it allowed me to ask for a rather large increase when I found out someone with less skills than me was hired in a comparative position for more than I was making after 5+ years in the job.

    2. Lucette Kensack*

      We don’t have full transparency, but the ranges for each role are transparent. They are listed on our organizational intranet.

    3. Mad Harry Crewe*

      We just released salary bands for the first time at my company. The response has been overwhelmingly good, at least as far as I know (not a manager, probably wouldn’t hear about it if someone in a distant department was unhappy). They did an all-hands meeting and talked through how to understand the bands (where they come from, what min/mid/max means, that a lot of the bands overlap so a promotion doesn’t always mean a raise, but it means you’re now lower in the new band and have more space to move up).

      In terms of arguments in favor – As an individual contributor/someone who just joined the industry recently, it gives me a really good perspective on where I may want to go next. It helps people know they are valued (because they’re being paid fairly). It helps ensure that the organization is meeting equal pay requirements and is on the right side of the law.

      TBH, if your company isn’t even doing salary reviews to make sure their high performers are being paid at an appropriate level, they probably are going to be pretty resistant to such a big, transparent shift. You might think about whether you’ll get more traction on baby steps, rather than pushing for a big leap like this.

  61. Mannheim Steamroller*

    My wife has long been a victim of the “too good to be promoted” school of mismanagement. (“We need to keep you where you are so you can help train others to be promoted around you.”)

    At long last, her superiors recently agreed to promote her… then suddenly reneged to accommodate someone else. (“Cindy was going to leave, so we had to give her your promotion as a counter-offer. Keep up the good work!“)

    Of course, she is (very quietly) updating her resume and LinkedIn profile.

    3. Rusty Shackelford*

      “Oh, Cindy threatened to leave? Unless she got a promotion? Thanks for the great idea!” ;-)

    4. misspiggy*

      Oh my goodness. Talk about a lack of foresight (because now they are definitely going to lose your wife and her essential skills).

      It would be very satisfying to have an update when that happens!

    7. Erstewhile lurker*

      That is an extremely low blow by her employer, keep on at her to get her resumes out there.

    8. ..Kat..*

      If she is this essential in her job, I hope she has received pay raises that reflect her importance to the organization.

  62. Freaked Out*

    I have a low-stakes question. What is the best way to say no (and right words to say) to covering a shift/picking up extra hours/coming to work on a day off when the reason is to just want to stay home?

    It doesn’t feel like a good excuse because work is supposed to come first.

    1. Arielle*

      “I have plans.” You DO have plans even if the plan is to watch Netflix in your pajamas. As an introvert I often use this to great success. If they pry further you can say, “Oh, just family stuff.”

    2. littlelizard*

      You don’t need to share your exact plan! Just “I’m busy and won’t be able to, sorry”, and no one should be probing you about what exactly you’ll be doing.

    3. londonedit*

      ‘I’m sorry, I won’t be able to do that’. That’s all you need to say!

      Reasonable people won’t push back on that, but if they do, there’s no need to elaborate and say that you just want to stay at home (which for the record is a perfectly reasonable way to feel! Work shouldn’t ‘come first’ to the detriment of your life and wellbeing!). Just reiterate – ‘Sorry, I can’t do it this time’.

    5. WellRed*

      Work is supposed to come ahead of… your life? Who told you that nonsense? Take the damn day off. “I’m sorry, I’m not available that day.” That’s it.

      1. Freaked Out*

        I was brought up that way, but I’ve been ghosting people who ask lately due to panic and guilt because I work two part-time jobs and am protective of my sometimes one day off.

        1. Mad Harry Crewe*

          You don’t need to panic or be guilty. If you really feel the need to provide a reason (which you don’t), that’s an extremely good one!

          “Oh, sorry, I can’t cover on Saturday.” Why? “I’m not available. Have you asked Fergus?” But what are you doing that’s so important? “Errands. It’s actually my only day off, I’m really not able to cover for you. Good luck finding someone, though!”

          I highly recommend that you practice not providing a reason up front. See how many people even push! (If it’s a lot, your work culture sucks.) But for those that do, your reason is super reasonable.

        2. Not So NewReader*

          Don’t offer explanations. “I am sorry. I can’t make it.”

          Some places run on crisis. They function by going from one fire to another. Try to remember that smoothly run places do not constantly need fill-in people. It is not up to you to solve everyone’s problem. Others can take their turn.

    6. Freaked Out*

      I appreciate all the replies, and hopefully will not feel like I lied about why I can’t come to work. I also plan to share this to my best friend who is always feeling pressured to say yes.

      1. londonedit*

        It’s not lying to just say ‘Sorry, I’m not able to do that’. You’re not able to do it! And it’s irrelevant whether or not that’s because it’s more important to you to stay at home. No need to go into detail about it and no need to make up an excuse – that would be lying, but a simple ‘nope, sorry, I can’t this time’ isn’t lying at all.

      2. Lily Rowan*

        Like they’ve all said, don’t lie, just say, “Sorry, I can’t.” The end! You can’t because you need one day off!

      3. Oak*

        It’s not lying to say you can’t come in on your day off! I would not come in on my day off because it’s my day off. Work is a business transaction, nothing more. They pay you, you do your best when you’re on the clock, but your life is more important than your job. They’d have to be paying me a lot more than they are for me to prioritise coming in on my day off. And even then it would be a sometimes thing.

        So just say ‘sorry, got plans’ and don’t feel guilty.

    7. MarfisaTheLibrarian*

      “I’m sorry, I have a very important prior committment that day!”

      You do. Your commitment is to yourself and your sanity

  63. Golden Lioness*

    Hello everyone! Happy Friday!!

    I am in need of some input. I am not happy in my current situation and have been interviewing with a company that seems like a very cool place to work. I made it to the third and final round and I will be getting an technical assignment and meet the CEO. It looks very promising and have got very warm replies and a very quick follow up (for example, my second interview was yesterday, and they already called me this morning to let me know I am moving on to the last round)

    I do have a few concerns… this s a very small company, almost like a start-up. This worries me because when I asked about back-up they said there will be nobody internally, but they would have some external consultants to assist. I asked about time off and they said it was not a problem but they wanted me to be available for emergencies. That raised a yellow flag for me. I’ve been in places where they only call if a true emergency, and other that call you all the time. That would be a deal-breaker for me. As this company is small I cannot find former employees to ask. The contacts I’ve found on LinkedIn are either high level execs or the people involved in the hiring progress. Any helpful advice? Any anecdotes of your time working on small start-ups? No concern about money, they have been around long enough and have good financial backing. My main concern is about balance and 12+hour work days, which would be a deal breaker for me at this point in my career (I am a very experienced seasoned SME)

    I appreciate all the good advice I always read here!!!

    1. AvonLady Barksdale*

      So… here’s my first thought. If this company is small and on the newer side, can you find any traces of the CEO’s last company? I’m thinking about the company I used to work for that is now defunct and the CEO has started a very similar new company. If anyone ever came to me for advice about working with him, I would be honest and direct them to the Glassdoor reviews for the old company.

      That company was a nightmare, but it was driven by the CEO, so YMMV. However, the “emergency” comment gives me hives. Do you do something that requires emergency response? I would be really wary about joining a company with absolutely no back-up.

      1. Golden Lioness*

        Thank you for your comment. That is an excellent point. There are 2 co-founders (one is the CEO) and they used to work for a huge well-know established company that is still industry dominant. I feel their product is solid, they saw a need and are filling it well. They’re now in expansion mode, which comes with challenges.

        I have felt the same way you do about that comment on emergencies, which is why I am really concerned even though I liked everyone I met. I just didn’t want to feel like I was being picky and overreacting. I am very concerned about their work-like balance. I have also given a range based on their original description, and based on my conversations with them it’s low, so I will have to address that as well. I was really hoping I could talk to former employees, but there aren’t many. On the plus side, everyone there seems to have been working for the company for several years.

        I know they expect me to build and put processes in place, which I’ve done before, but that also means that they need more structure and I am going to have to fight to “sell it”. We discussed this on the last interview and we have a tentative plan that I suggested (because I’ve done this before) and they seemed amenable to.

        I usually have very strong gut feelings that I trust. In this case I feel this could be one of the best opportunities that I have been offered or the worst ones. No in-between. I feel like I need more info. Glassdoor reviews are better than average (every company has both good and bad) but being that it’s a small company, not sure if it’s mostly the execs.

    2. WellRed*

      Do you know how they define “emergency” Did they explain their time off policy (as in, “we offer 4 weeks paid vacation) or did they stay vague?

      1. Golden Lioness*

        They stayed vague because I was speaking with the HR person. I did not think she was the right person to ask and the manager did not give me a good opportunity to bring it up. I was hoping I could bring it up again when I meet the CEO.

    3. Kathenus*

      Given your questions and concerns and that these things are dealbreakers, I’d suggest discussing these topics very openly during your interview – 12 hour days, emergency coverage, etc. Ask directly what the work schedule would look like, what constitutes an emergency, what frequency they expect it would happen, what if you were out of touch (hiking in a remote area or whatever)? Since they are dealbreakers you have absolutely nothing to lose by a very clear conversation about them so you don’t end up in a position where neither of you are happy.

      Either their needs meet your work-life balance goals and you take it if offered, or they don’t and you both realize you’re not the right fit for each other now before either have committed to moving forward.

      1. Golden Lioness*

        Thank you! This is what I would like to do, I just don’t want to come across as presumptuous or entitled, so I am walking a delicate balance here. I think I am going to ask to speak with the hiring manager again when I come in to see the CEO.

        1. Jean (just Jean)*

          It’s neither presumptuous nor entitled to seek a situation that meets *your* needs.
          One can be tactful or tactical without carrying the emotional baggage that often accompanies “walking a delicate balance.”

          People do this all the time in the workplace!

          Forgive me if I’m wrong (I just finished reading a newspaper article on #BelieveWomen) but I think that a lot of us folks raised female are still carrying old-fashioned ideas that assertiveness is not a good look on women. Speaking of delicate balances and all. It stinks but until we ourselves get comfortable with this change we’re not going to persuade anyone else that things need to become different.

  64. Good luck's run dry*

    Part vent, part advice seeking:

    Venting: To sum up my week, on Wednesday evening at 8pm, my spouse and I signed a contract to buy a house and paid the due diligence money directly to the seller. Thursday morning at 9:30, my spouse got laid off as a part of a departmental reorganization. Womp womp. They didn’t see it coming AT ALL.
    So, we terminated the house-buying contract, lost our DD money (have asked for it back because circumstances, but haven’t heard yet), and are now wrapping our heads around losing 60% of our income. For context, my spouse’s last day is 5 weeks away, with ~1 month severance pay.

    Advice seeking: folks who’ve been laid off, and/or their spouses- what are the things you wish you’d done right away when this happened? In the next few weeks? What support would you have wanted from your spouse or other people close to you?

    1. Blueberry*

      I wish I had advice for you from when this happened to my SO. It just sucked and there was no way to ameliorate that. I’m really, really sorry you’re having to go through this, and I send you all strength.

    2. ThatGirl*

      Ugh, I am so sorry about that!

      As the spouse, you should do your best to hold back and just be generally supportive – your spouse probably doesn’t need anyone adding to their anxiety. Be ready and willing to help, of course, but don’t pressure them. Do your best to manage your own anxiety. Your spouse will likely be eligible for unemployment but can’t file until after their last day.

      If I’d had a long notice period when I got laid off, I would have immediately cut back on spending as much as possible to put extra into savings, started polishing my resume, and started reaching out to friends and networking. But you should also let your spouse have some time to process it, and grieve (so to speak) for the lost job.

    3. Marcy*

      Medical insurance – get refills on prescriptions, get those annual doctor appointments in before your deadline. If you have an FSA, make sure you send in those receipts.

      1. Good luck's run dry*

        Luckily, they’re on my insurance plan. Good point about the FSA (and other pre-tax) accounts! I’ll remind them of that.

      1. All Hail Queen Sally*

        Yes. File for unemployment now! In my state, you do not get paid for the week you apply. Also, they do not count severance against you. So if you were in my state, the unemployment would kick in about the time his job ends.

    5. Wine not Whine*

      My late husband was an industrial electrician working out of the union hall. There would be stretches of 2 weeks to 6 months (depending on the economy) when he would be between gigs. We learned a lot.
      While you still have both incomes:
      > Get your car maintenance done, check your tires; if you’re a homeowner, get your furnace inspected, and any other small maintenance chores. Paying for an inspection now beats a large, unexpected repair bill later.
      > Depending on your health-insurance situation, ditto with checkups, dental cleanings, and vaccinations.
      > Set up a budget now, based on your new income, and start living by it instead of by your current income. This gives you time to tweak your assumptions, and allows you to start setting aside the differential as an emergency fund.

      Also, don’t let yourselves hide. Stay in touch with friends; be up-front if your budget is too tight for dinner-and-a-movie (for example) and suggest alternatives like pizza-and-board-games. There’s no shame in having to live within your means!

      Wishing you the best of luck!

      1. Good luck's run dry*

        Thanks for the good advice! We’re already reaching out to a few friends, and aren’t hiding this from anyone- it’s not my spouse’s fault that the company restructured.

    6. Bubbles*

      I am so sorry for you – and I have been in your shoes. The day we closed escrow my husband was laid off – but they had know for WEEKS that it was coming and still assisted us with confirming mortgage information. We were quite bitter, but they did two months severance so that helped.

      The first thing we did was focus on necessities and expectations. What was the job search going to look like? Since he was basically wrapping up his position, he had a lot of free time to job hunt and meet with recruiters. His company was flexible about it. We were locked in to the new house, so our focus shifted to quickly selling the old one for top dollar.

      One thing that made a huge difference for us is that we made it a point to have one year of anticipated expenses in savings before purchasing our new house. We used to keep 6 months, but I was more comfortable with making the move at the higher savings. I’d definitely recommend doing something similar when it comes time for you to purchase again.

    7. That Girl from Quinn's House*

      In my state, you can back out of the sale for any reason during the due diligence period, and get your money back. And I’m in one of those red states with no consumer protections. Can you double- check the law and make sure they are following it correctly?

      1. Good luck's run dry*

        Yes- for our state, due diligence $ is forfeited at termination of contract. It’s framed basically the deposit down to “pay” the seller for the time their house is off the market but before it’s sold. We are lucky to have a fabulous, experienced realtor who is doing her best for us.

      2. bunniferous*

        Due diligence and escrow are two different things. Escrow is refundable during the due diligence period but due diligence money is not-this is basically a fee paid because the seller has the house off market during the time between accepted offer and closing and this is to reimburse them for that. Due diligence money is negotiable-in this market it is part of the escrow deposit but a part that would not be refunded-and the amount varies. All this is how it works in my market, at least. I sell va foreclosures that only ask for escrow and not due diligence funds but regular real estate does it differently.

    8. BRR*

      I was laid off last year and I wish I allowed myself to grieve a little. I had a two-month notice period and I started job hunting right away. I felt like the best thing for me to do was to go full on into job hunting mode and I wish I would have made some days no job hunting days. Thankfully I had a pretty easy job hunt but my last job was pretty toxic and I started my new job not quite recovered from my last job.

    9. tab*

      You and your spouse should let everyone know that s/he’s looking. Also, asking colleagues to be references is a good idea, and make sure that his/her LinkedIn profile and resume are up to date. It’s a good idea to get Allison’s books and start reading. I know it’s scary, but this too shall pass, and you both will be stronger afterwards. Sending you internet hugs.

    10. Mad Harry Crewe*

      My wife was out of work for about six months last year – not a layoff, just leaving an increasingly awful work situation. We weren’t using any kind of budget, and I was super stressed about money the whole time. Since then, we’ve started using You Need A Budget (free trial month, you can email support and get it extended 2-3 weeks, then $85/year) and I so, so wish we’d been using it when she was unemployed.

      I picked it up based on an old comment section here, actually. There’s definitely a steep learning curve, but there’s a good Reddit community and some really good youtube guides for getting started. It gives a lot of visibility about how much money you have earmarked for things, both to spend immediately and to save for future. When something unexpected comes up and you need to pay for it, you’re asked to clearly articulate (to yourself) the choices you’re making about where that money is coming from. It’s been hugely useful to us in communicating about finances and building our savings back up without living like monks.

    11. Mad Harry Crewe*

      Third attempt at posting, I’m going to keep this version shorter –

      I highly recommend the budget software You Need A Budget. My wife was unemployed for about 6 months before we started using YNAB, and I was so, so stressed about money the whole time. Having this much visibility on where our money is going (or earmarked to go) is wonderful, and it really helps us communicate about money as well. Not that we were hesitant to speak about it before, but we didn’t have a lot of specifics. Now, we both have access to the same information and it just makes such a difference.

      It’s not free, but it’s so worth the pricetag. You can email their support team and ask for an extension on the trial month.

      1. Mad Harry Crewe*

        Ok, now that this has posted – the learning curve is steep, but there’s a good Reddit community and some helpful youtube tutorials (both by YNAB and other users).

      2. Mad Harry Crewe*

        Figured it out, I’m guessing a that mentioning a Certain Community that starts with ‘R’ and ends with ‘edit’ sent my other comments to moderation. Many apologies on the duplicates!

  65. June First*

    Hello!
    I’m in nonprofit PR. My job is changing slightly to incorporate more outreach, “friend-making”, development and internal collaborations on grants. I get to pick my new title.

    My current title includes “public relations”. I’d prefer not to be called “development officer” because the role incorporates more than traditional development. Seems like the current front-runner is “engagement manager”. I like using “collaborations” in the title, but others feel that’s too trendy. I also don’t want to have to explain my title when I use it.
    Suggestions?

    PS: I asked HR for input and they jokingly suggested “Entertainment Diva”.

      1. June First*

        Relationships manager could work. One suggestion was “relationship engagement manager”. Thanks for the input!

        1. Diahann Carroll*

          Relationship Engagement Manager is wordy and doesn’t really roll off the tongue – I’d keep it to the point and stick to Relationship Manager.

    2. Ama*

      I’ve seen a lot of jobs along those lines called “Foundation Relations” or “Donor Relations” (or both) depending on whether you are working largely with individual donors or corporate/foundation/government grants.

    3. All the Names*

      I would use “External Relations” and then whatever level you are/want to be. Director, Manager, Officer

  66. Niniel*

    Is it actually possible to have a job where you are paid enough to live comfortably, you have enough vacation time to take real breaks 4 times a year, and you feel excited about your job 70% of the time? What are those jobs? Or are they unicorns and is most of corporate America a hellscape?

    1. CheeryO*

      Can’t speak to corporate America, but I’ve had a good experience at a state government agency that aligns with some of my personal interests/beliefs. The pay and benefits are good, and I feel good about the work that I do. (“Excited” is not really the right word, though – work is work, and it can still feel like a grind on a day-to-day basis).

      1. Niniel*

        That’s ideal! I understand feeling like a grind, that’s inevitable. But hopefully not all of the time.

      2. Joielle*

        Same here! I love working in state government and my agency handles an area I’m personally interested in. Like your job, I don’t know that it’s “exciting,” per se, but I enjoy it. I never dread coming to the office, and my work is interesting 90% of the time. I could probably be making a little more in the private sector, but the pay is pretty good and the benefits are great. I recommend it!

    2. Free Meercats*

      I don’t know about corporate America.

      This has been my situation for almost 40 years across 3 different employers. I’m an environmental regulator and work for municipalities. The work is varied, field and office. I pretty much set my own schedule for what I do during the day, so long as I get the things done that need to be done. The people I work with in the regulated community are almost all great to work with, they want to comply but understand that sometimes things for pear-shaped and I have to be the bad guy.

      I’m reasonably well paid, though we haven’t kept up with inflation recently. I’ve been here long enough that I don’t get any raises beyond the COL raises. Decent benefits, a good pension, and with my seniority, I get 200 hours vacation a year and can accumulate up to 400. As long as you keep flushing toilets and businesses need to be controlled from polluting, I have job security.

      There are downsides. My fieldwork needs to be done rain, snow, or shine. I’m sometimes exposed to chemicals and regularly to raw sewage. Management has no idea what we do, they just know they have to have us to keep the feds happy. Right now we’re short handed and doesn’t look like that’s going to change anytime soon.

      Keep looking, you may find your Nirvana, you may not. But do your best to find the good in where you are each moment.

    3. Faith*

      I feel like in corporate America, you’re going to be doing good to get 2/3 of those. Especially if you’re angling for enough vacation time for *four* real breaks.

    4. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      I meet all of those qualifiers as a team lead for a remote group of medical coders, working for the largest health care organization in my state. My annual raise this year should take me over $80k, I get 33 days of PTO per year that nobody hassles me about taking (I take 3-5 days off probably 4-6 times a year), and I love my job.

    5. AnotherAlison*

      I feel my job meets that criteria, but I also think it might be a unicorn. My company is an F500 company, but it’s privately owned and has a different culture than what I see many places. Honestly, I stumbled into this job and company by accident. What I was looking for and what it’s evolved to after 15 years are on opposite ends of the spectrum, but I’m happy with it.

    6. Pebbles Bishop*

      I realize that I lucked out at my current job, because I am paid well, I enjoy what I do most of the time, and I get generous PTO (which at the moment is 4 weeks + holidays a year, and works well for me – it increases every 5 years).

      I work in property title for post-foreclosure properties. It’s a niche in the real estate industry that I fell into after college and I love it. Of course there are some terrible/busy/boring days, but for the most part I really like the job, my coworkers, and my office. My manager is fantastic and goes to bat for me re raises, workload, etc. We’re encouraged to use our PTO – we can only roll over a week of unused PTO every year, and my company really stresses how important it is that we take time off. I usually take at least two week-long breaks a year and I take at least one day a month off. It works really well for me!

      HOWEVER. I have absolutely worked in hellscape offices – they’re prevalent and terrible. I honestly don’t know how I lucked into this job, but it’s been amazing.

      1. Niniel*

        A day per month plus 2 week-long breaks? Yes please! That sounds like the ideal work/life balance for me.

      1. Niniel*

        That is something I’ve considered. I’m just unsure if I could maintain a steady income while being self-employed.

    8. Time2Travel*

      In my, admittedly small, experience, it’s been more of a “pick 2 of these 3 options” kind of situation. For example, I am paid well for my position (monthly pay-for-performance incentives almost double my annual salary), and I have around 5 weeks of vacation (I take a one week and a two-week vacation abroad each year with no push-back, and the few days between Christmas and New Year’s). Sounds great right? Well, I only like my job approximately 10% of the time. The company is nice, but embodies values which conflict with my own, strongly, my boss is tough and has unrealistic expectations, the job itself can be very draining (HR), and I have absolutely no opportunities for advancement or growth unless my (very young) boss retires, and I cannot seem to find another job elsewhere unless I take a significant pay cut. So definitely not a “feel excited about my job 70% of the time” situation. Still, trying to make the best of it!

    9. Nessun*

      My workplace is a Big Four public accounting firm, and I’d say we hit all those criteria. Of course, I’m biased because my particular team is amazing – but I have been here long enough to have an informed opinion.

      1. Jules the 3rd*

        Wait, big 4 public accounting and you get real vacation? I thought most of them were 2 weeks to start, 3 weeks max. I’d think 4 weeks would be the minimum for ‘3 – 4 real breaks’

    10. Lily Rowan*

      Yes, I have one of those jobs! But it’s not in corporate america — I’m in higher ed, which I realize is a hellscape for a lot of people at a lot of places, so maybe it is a unicorn?

    11. Spreadsheets and Books*

      I have one of these jobs in corporate America. I work in FP&A (financial planning and analysis – a back office corporate finance field) for a large intentionally-known media company. I work around 9-6 most days and have the flexibility to do things like go to appointments or take a late lunch without repercussion. We have adequate PTO and it’s used on an honor system so there’s no need to formally track it. My work is interesting, my company has a positive reputation as a “good” employer and cares about preserving it so it’s a pleasant workplace, and I’m, at minimum, neutral about coming to work. I like what I do, both day to day and in the industry, and was able to break six figures before age 30.

      I have had similar experiences with past employers, but obviously perks and morale are very company-specific. I like my field a lot.

      1. Niniel*

        It’s a shame that parsing numbers is not my skill. It seems that finance is the only way to be really well off at a young age!

    12. Allison*

      I love my job in corporate America. I get 4 weeks of vacation, 2 days work from home, good benefits and a great culture. It is possible!

    13. No Tribble At All*

      I’m an engineer. Job is exciting, challenging, with good people, and I love the mission. Tends to lean heavy on the work side of work/life balance, but we get European levels of vacation (starts at 4 weeks, not including the federal holidays) because we’re owned by a European company. Husband and I bought our first house when I was 25, a year ago. Granted, neither one of us had significant student loans: him $0, me about $7k. My starting salary was above the US Median.

      There are significant differences in the lives of my techy vs non-techy friends. Hate to say it, but it’s true. And techy with heavy student loans is just as bad.

      So, they exist… you just have to get a STEM degree at a state school.

      1. Niniel*

        Yeah, student loans that don’t exceed 4 digits gives you a huge heads up. My field is very niche so the likelihood of working for a European company is pretty much 0. But you’re doing very well for yourselves at your ages! Good job on picking the right field and the right company!

      1. Niniel*

        A real break for me would ideally consist of 4 weeks of vacation, taken in 2 blocks of 2 weeks or 4 blocks of 1 week, plus all 10 federal holidays. Then sick days on top of that.

        As for salary, $75k plus my husband’s pay. That changes if we were to get a windfall that lets us pay off our home completely. Then we could live on our current incomes together.

        1. Senor Montoya*

          So 30 days of vacay plus sick leave. I get 24 days of annual leave, plus some fed holidays plus some days at the end of the year when the university is closed. 12 days of sick leave. It all rolls over.

          I don’t make 75 K but plenty of people at my employer do. And I like my job most of the time, it fits my values, and it’s often very busy but not unbearably so.

    16. spock*

      It probably depends on your definition of “excited about your job”. I do enjoy most of the work as far as work goes, and it’s a good match for my personality, but it’s not like I’d do it if it didn’t pay like it does. I guess I’m more excited about our product than about many others, but it’s still work and not a fun hobby. I’m a software engineer, so jobs in the industry pay very well and there is often reasonable time off.

    18. EnglishisLit*

      I have one! Been here 12 years, regularly promoted, paid very well, get to do some awesome things. I’d say I love 80% of my job, and the remaining is fine (not terrible). There are politics but not enough to make me leave.

      I work for a company you’ve definitely heard of that is child, family, educator-focused, with brands you know and love.

  67. A/E/C but really more English*

    A/E/C industry marketing people: I’m currently working under the E branch the past 3+ years and doing a lot of feasibility technical writing/research and higher-level project coordination. My major is in English, so I’m thinking of pivoting towards a proposal writing or marketing role since it’s a little more creative but I already have knowledge of industry practices and terminology.

    How’s your experience been in that side of the field? Is there consistent room for growth if my degree is in liberal arts? Am I way out of my league applying to entry-level roles if I don’t have any Adobe InDesign experience yet?

    1. AnotherAlison*

      I’m an eng PM, but I’ve worked a lot with proposals and marketing and had a role under the BD umbrella for 6 years.

      Our proposals and marketing team has a mix of people with degrees in business, communications, journalism, engineering, and completely unrelated things (political science, health). I think once you’re in the role, the opportunities for growth are performance-related. I’ve seen people move up into the marketing director or proposal director roles, and some people move out into business development manager roles. Probably consistent with your current role, broader opportunities for non-engineers are limited in A/E/C.

      I think the InDesign piece will be company-specific, but what I’ve seen here is that if you’re a new marketing/comms grad with no industry experience, you’re going to rely on your role-specific education, including things like Adobe suite and it’s a must. If you’re coming from another position in the industry and know the technical side already, that is not going to be as big of an issue. You’ll understand the project that is being proposed, how the work will be executed, what win strategy you’re trying to communicate, and how to coordinate with the technical people contributing to the proposal. That’s more valuable. I can have a junior person do the InDesign, but I can’t explain to them easily why our differentiation is XYZ.

      On the flip side, I’m not sure proposals is particularly creative, and it’s a high pressure job. Definitely talk to people in those roles before you make the leap.

      1. Diahann Carroll*

        Proposal management can be creative if you’re the one actually writing the proposal responses. I did in my last role, and I had to come up with compelling content on the fly; design covers, spines, and tabs for the completed proposals using InDesign (and I even did a full 22 page proposal in that program as well); and design sharp and persuasive PowerPoint presentations and placemats for interviews.

        At my current company, proposal managers don’t do any of that. They literally just run the proposal response team meetings and compile section draft responses from subject matter experts who actually write the proposals. I would never take a job like this – it’s almost entirely administrative.

        Instead, I’m a content creator who writes and edits our reusable content for proposals, reviews and edits complex and high-visibility proposal drafts prior to submittal, works with marketing and communications to craft product sales strategies and value propositions, and generally ensures our corporate messaging is consistent across various platforms (among other things). I’m trying to get more involved in marketing campaigns, so we’ll see how that shakes out as the year unfolds (it looks promising). So content development or content strategy roles may also be something to look into if you can’t find a PM role that actually lets you write and design full-time.

    2. Anonymous Today*

      I am also in AEC marketing. I am currently in the “E” branch, but started my career in the “A” branch. If your major is in English you will have no trouble with the roles you are describing. My major was in music, so not related at all. I did have a family tie advantage to getting in the door, but I think an English degree with technical writing skills is a great background. I would say there is definitely consistent room for growth. My job is proposal heavy, and firms will always need someone to do these. I will say that when I started, my entry level salary was not very high ($48k). I’ve had to change companies a couple of times to get the salary jumps to be making decent money.

      In my experience, almost everyone I know is self-taught in InDesign (including myself). I would highly recommend downloading it and teach yourself a little bit, enough to get the basics down. A good exercise to learn the basic working functions is to recreate your resume in InDesign. By figuring out how to do that, you will have enough background to get started. Then you can at least list familiarity with it on your resume. Every firm I have worked for uses it, so it will help you a lot.

  68. Anon this time*

    Asking for both a coworker and myself – is there a diplomatic way to tell another coworker “Hey, stop asking us how to do your job.” The coworker in question is at a higher level than us and has additional education/qualifications that we do not have, and really has no business asking us how he should do his own job. When he asks my coworker about particular things relating to his job that she has no way of knowing, and she (surprise!) doesn’t know the answer, he gets angry at her. We just want him to stop coming to us and getting angry when we can’t help him. However, because he’s higher up than us, we want to be diplomatic about it. Any suggestions are appreciated!

    1. irene adler*

      Shouldn’t this coworker be checking with your boss before taking up your work time with his questions?
      If so, then maybe say something like, “Let me make sure my boss is okay with my spending [xx amount of time] away from [assigned work task] to assist you.”

      Your female co-worker should report this anger stuff with boss-every time it happens. There’s no reason for the anger over things she doesn’t know. And she doesn’t need to field his emotions over something he ought to know himself. That abusive behavior. Someone needs to put it to a stop.

    2. Not A Manager*

      Sometimes I think it can be helpful to name the situation directly, if you say it in a non-accusatory way. “Bob, sometimes you ask me about things that I really don’t have any background or training in. When I don’t have the answer, I sense that you are upset and frustrated. I want to assure you that I am not withholding information from you. I’d like to encourage you to look into x or y resources [if you know of any], that might provide more reliable information than I can.”

  69. Now in the Job*

    My company just suspended all international travel, and all domestic travel that is not mission-critical because of Covid-19. OK, that’s fine. They’ve also sent an email out saying that all personal international travel has to be reported, along with dates and countries, to HR, who will let you know whether you can come back to the office upon your return stateside or need to stay out of the office.

    Is this an overstep? My job isn’t set up to be worked remotely right now (I was told when I started in October that it wasn’t a thing, and in a casual conversation in December that the CEO Disapproves of teleworking) and I don’t know what it would take to get set up for that. Is this something I need to explore with my manager when she gets back on Monday?

    I leave for my honeymoon to the Caribbean on Saturday, this was not on my list of things to stress over!

    1. Now in the Job*

      Correction–I leave NEXT Saturday, so I have a week between now and then to work things out if needed.

      1. CheeryO*

        I would talk to your manager on Monday. I don’t think asking you to report the trip is an overstep, but if they want you to be able to work from home when you get back, then they need to set you up to do so ASAP.

    2. Grace*

      I don’t think it’s an overstep to request that people work from home if it’s possible to do it. My work asked about all recent holidays by us and people we live with, and about any we plan on taking soon, and two people have been asked to work from home for the next couple of weeks. That being said, those are all roles where that’s not a problem.

      If you’re not set up at all to work from home, I’m not so sure.

    3. blink14*

      Reporting non-work trips that are international seems to be pretty common right now in response to the virus. The university where I work has “strongly” suggested that any faculty and staff record personal trips out of the US on an internal site that is used for international travel.

      It would be a good idea to give your manager a head’s up, and see what she thinks about handling the situation.

    4. AvonLady Barksdale*

      Talk to your manager and get clarification on the policy. If they tell you to stay home for a certain number of days after you return (and you’re going to the Caribbean, I can’t imagine they would quarantine you but I haven’t followed any guidelines very carefully), ask if they’re paid or you’re expected to use PTO. If it’s the latter, I would push back on that.

    5. Sunflower Sea Star*

      I don’t think asking you to tell them where you’ve been is an overstep. If I had an employee who had been to an affected area I would want to know.
      And you might be surprised by how okay they might be of teleworking if they are overly concerned about a virus… smaller things have changed people’s minds.

    6. Notthemomma*

      They are not granting permission to go, but just want to know when and where, correct? If so, with the uncertainty of this virus, that’s perfectly acceptable.

      They may have you work remote for x days to ensure there is no possible transmission. My company is doing the same and I look at it as them trying to keep the whole workforce – and those families safe.

    7. Frankie*

      Not an overstep. They need to keep the safety of their whole staff in mind and people are cancelling trips like the one you’re taking due to valid concerns of pandemic. So it would be in line to ask you to stay home if the level of risk is high enough. It wouldn’t be right to require you to use PTO, though.

    8. Alex*

      My company has also said we need to report any international personal travel. And I work for a major organization with 10k+ employees.

    9. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      It’s not really an overstep IMO. Public health has to take priority over your honeymoon, sorry to say!

      Report it, see what they come back with.

      Btw, my “honeymoon” was a 2-day trip to a local (~15 miles) location. You don’t need the actual honeymoon to be the ‘trip of a lifetime’; you have the rest of your lives for that.

  70. People Confuse Me*

    I spend a lot of my day in meetings, both in-person (typically in conference rooms on other floors), and on Skype Conference calls from my desk. This week, I had a meeting on another floor right before a conference call. I sent out a message saying I might be 2-3 minutes late for the Skype call. I got logged on about 90 seconds after the hour and the Skype call proceeded as planned.

    I was the person who scheduled the Skype call. It was a meeting with a vendor. After the meeting, my boss pulled me into her office telling me, “This is not a big deal, but some people thought it was unprofessional for you to send an email telling us you’d be late. But don’t worry about it.” I managed to get her to admit it wasn’t anyone at my company, but it was the vendor who said so.

    The in-person meeting before the conference call was with a C-Level. Office culture is you work around a C-Level’s schedule because they are so busy.

    Feedback from colleagues is I did the responsible thing. Thoughts? Is it my office culture that’s the issue, or was I truly unprofessional?

    1. WellRed*

      I don’t think it’s horrible, but you are the one who scheduled the call so seems more important for you to be on time because of that.

    2. The New Wanderer*

      I think you made the right call in the moment. I have overlapping meetings sometimes and stuff gets outprioritized depending on who you’re meeting with pretty often, so there are always people joining a few minutes late, including hosts. Best strategy for the future if you are the host is to designate someone else as host if there’s a chance for a delay like this.

      1. People Confuse Me*

        Good point, I hadn’t thought of delegating someone. I mistakenly figured my new boss would step in, because I’d do that for a subordinate. I’ve come to learn this woman does not have her employees’ back.

        1. The New Wanderer*

          I posted before I added the comment that you got a talking to for being 1.5 minutes late to a meeting? IME that’s pretty strict unless you have a perfect company record of no tech problems in setting up meetings. It’s very common here to have the first 3-5 minutes lost to set up issues, call-in issues, delays in even getting into the conference room because the last meeting ran long, and so on. No one would have batted an eye unless you were going on 10 minutes late without a word of explanation.

          But with the added note that your boss was on the line and could have stepped in but chose to wait and then talk to you about it? I think that speaks to culture issues too.

          1. People Confuse Me*

            This isn’t the first incident where it’s obvious division culture is changing towards the worse. The boss sends emails outside of work hours and then will ask her staff why they haven’t responded while they’re still taking their coats off at 8:55. I flipped the switch on LinkedIn to let recruiters know I’m looking.

    3. Fikly*

      Did your boss tell you what they wanted you to do instead? Otherwise that’s not very helpful feedback.

      1. People Confuse Me*

        She didn’t. And the whole, “it’s not a big deal but I have to talk to you about it,” was a bizarre thing.

  71. littlelizard*

    Our loud neighbors were quiet for about a month after our boss got in contact with the building manager, but they’ve been ramping up again. The loud yelling in whatever meetings they have is BACK. It’s awful.

    1. Juneybug*

      Knock on the door when they have a meeting and ask them to please quiet down as you are trying to work.
      Repeat as necessary.
      Document every time you have to ask them to quiet down.
      Right now, your office has a problem. They don’t because you haven’t made it their problem.

    2. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      Can your boss get in contact with them again? Or escalate it?

  72. Grace*

    So I had to call an ambulance to work this week.

    Removing details for privacy, but someone from another company on the floor was prepping and heating a food in the shared kitchenette, my coworker told him they were allergic to it, and he just said “Okay” and carried on. Two minutes later, hives. Five minutes later, they were having difficulty breathing. They don’t have an EpiPen yet because their allergy had always been so mild until this last year, and they haven’t yet finished arranging to get one. That was supposed to happen next week.

    Everyone is fine, they were fully stable pretty quickly and the hospital visit was a precaution, the building is supposedly going to put signs up in the kitchen banning the allergen and send emails around (although I don’t have faith that those measures won’t just make it worse, because people are dicks sometimes), and no surprise, they’ve been pushed to the front of the queue for an EpiPen.

    I called the ambulance, I talked the operator through their symptoms and the anaphylaxis, I explained where our building was (a hell of a job, because some location software that delivery drivers use can’t find us, and apparently the ambulance couldn’t either), I stayed calm all through it… And then broke down the moment the paramedic got there and I could get off the phone. It’s the most terrifying sound I’ve ever heard, and the shock from the adrenaline afterwards was not great.

    And work still has to be done by EoD, so after the office was clear we went right back to work and got everything finished… But I didn’t stop shaking for hours.

    Public service announcement: nuts aren’t the only allergy that can be airborne. If someone tells you they’re allergic to something, take them seriously. I don’t think the other office even realised what was happening, so he probably won’t know until the emails go out that he could have almost killed someone.

    1. Blueberry*

      You did awesomely, and are absolutely right. I send internet hugs from a soft person if you want them.

    2. Environmental Compliance*

      Ooof. Internet hugs. You did everything right. It is a very stressful situation to be in.

    3. Rusty Shackelford*

      Yikes, that’s awful. However, I can’t tell if the victim said “hey, I’m allergic to that,” which is way too subtle, or “hey, I’m allergic to that, and when you cook it, it becomes airborne, so I need you to please stop.”

      2. BadWolf*

        Indeed. Did it sound like small talk? If I’m cooking something and you tell me you’re allergic to it and that’s it, I’m not sure I’d draw the conclusion that I need to stop cooking it and dispose of itsecurely or swiftly move to another location.

        I’d probably check that I hadn’t left bits of it around on the table or microwave when I stirred it.

      3. Grace*

        They didn’t know that they could react to airborne allergens, or that they would go into anaphylaxis. I think it was intended to be a “Hey, wipe the side down” but I’m not sure – I didn’t really get time to ask before everything kicked off. This was the first time anything ever got worse than medium-level hives, and even the hives only really started in the last few months – hence not yet having an EpiPen.

        1. CM*

          To me, this sounds like it wasn’t really anybody’s fault. I’m not sure what anyone should have done differently if this is a new allergy and the OP didn’t even know they would have a reaction to airborne allergens. They obviously weren’t able to communicate that to the cook, and the cook wouldn’t have been able to guess. It just sucks for everyone. :(

    4. CheeryO*

      You did awesome. I’m somewhat side-eyeing your company for not alerting the other companies that share the kitchen that someone has a serious allergy, but hopefully they do better now. I also have some sympathy for the food microwaver, because I could see myself being like, “…and?” (assuming the allergic person didn’t give any explicit instructions or communicate that it was an airborne allergy).

      1. Grace*

        This was the first time they’d ever gone into anaphylaxis – no-one knew it was a severe allergy until yesterday, or that it could be triggered by airborne allergens. Hives that went down after anti-histamines was as bad as it had got before. We don’t share the kitchenette for anything except the sink (we have our own fridge and microwave in the office) so the building management wasn’t alerted just for a hives-and-anti-histamines level allergy.

        1. Rusty Shackelford*

          In that case, I’m not sure what you meant by “If someone tells you they’re allergic to something, take them seriously.” It sounds like the allergy-producer is getting some heat for something they didn’t know they should have done.

          1. Grace*

            I don’t know, if I was cooking and someone – who I’ve never spoken to before, because we don’t really chat to the other offices, so it’s unlikely to be small-talk – said “Hey, I’m allergic to that,” at the very least I would ask if they needed me to stop cooking/chopping it, at least while they were in the vicinity, or if they wanted me to stop bringing that food for lunch. I wouldn’t just shrug, say “Okay” and walk away, leaving the allergen doing its allergen-y things in the kitchenette.

            Of course no-one’s blaming him for having the allergen in the first place, but something beyond utterly non-committal would have been nice.

            1. Diahann Carroll*

              But again, your coworker didn’t know his allergy was now airborne, so how would the cooker know this? If their conversation was brief and in passing, I don’t see anything wrong with the cooker’s equally brief response of “okay,” and going about his business. There was no directive given or a request from your coworker to do something different, just a spoken, declarative fact. You can’t really do much with that.

              1. valentine*

                It makes a difference whether he said it pre-microwave and whether he showed any fear or urgency. If it was already in the microwave, sure, stopping it would be good, but the allergic person would have to say stop, stop it themselves, or leave (possibly even leave the building) and ask someone else to stop it.

            2. Close Bracket*

              Well, but I have even been the person with the food allergies, and I had no idea that airborne food allergies were a thing. I know about contact allergies for peanuts, but that’s it. I was even allergic to peanuts and tree nuts, and I still didn’t know their allergens could cause a reaction from becoming airborne. In fact, in elementary school, a lot of kids thought I was lying about my food allergies bc I didn’t respond just by proximity the way people with pollen allergies do. So I think just walking away non-committally was a reasonable reaction. I’m glad for the PSA bc now I know that airborne food allergens will get someone.

              Allergies can go away over time, which mine did, or they can worsen with time. The fact that your coworker went from a “this food gives me hives” to “this food gives me anaphylactic shock” is well within expected allergic reaction parameters.

    5. CastIrony*

      Allergies can be airborne?! After giving it another thought, I understand pollen would be airborne, but this is a new thing for me.

      My condolences, though.

      1. Grace*

        Pollen/dust/mould allergens are airborne, obviously, but there are also food-related airborne allergens. Peanuts are the ones that are most commonly known (hence no peanuts on planes with recycled air) but apparently any allergen that can be aerosolised can potentially be airborne – milk, fish and shellfish being steamed or boiled, eggs or fish frying, powdered substances being disturbed. (My coworker’s allergen is one of the ones on that list; no specifics.)

      2. JanetM*

        I have a friend who had a roommate who was anaphylaxis-level allergic to peanuts. They banned peanut butter in the house after he had a reaction (while in his room with the door closed) to someone opening a jar in the kitchen, several rooms away.

    6. Lyudie*

      Can I just say that the fact that an EpiPen requires a queue and arrangements is ridiculous??

      Glad your coworker is ok, what a scary situation.

      1. Grace*

        They did already have an appointment with the allergy clinic lined up, arranged literally just this week, to test for other allergens and train them in EpiPen usage – if this had happened a couple of weeks later, it wouldn’t have been nearly so scary, because it would all have been sorted by then. Obviously still scary, but they would at least have had an EpiPen. Said appointment is now going to be happening ASAP within reason, I believe.

        The timing of it all was bizarre. They went from being someone who had never gone into anaphylaxis before and only needed an EpiPen as a precaution all the way to someone who had a reaction to an aerosolised allergen, just in the space of a week or so. It was very scary to witness, and obviously for them to experience as well.

    7. Donkey Hotey*

      It -is- a stressful thing to do. You did great. *internet high five*
      Glad that your company is taking steps to mitigate future problems.

    9. Anonymato*

      You did great, and I can’t believe you had to keep working after such an experience.

      PSA: With my insurance (yes, in the US) EpiPen was $800. However, something called AuviQ – same purpose and meds, just different company – is free. Also, it actually talks you through what you need to do which is priceless in a state of panic or if somebody else – who is not trained on administering – has to give it to you.

  73. Applications FTL*

    How important is it to actually fill in a response when application forms have a section that says something like, “Have you ever applied to any jobs with us before? If so, please list the positions and dates.” I used to fill it out, but I’ve been ignoring it recently.

    It’s annoying that a lot of employers are already asking for you to submit a resume and cover letter, and want you to rewrite your resume in their application system, provide references, and answer a few pages of questions. And they want you to take the time to look through your personal records and give them an application history too?

    Shouldn’t they be able to look in their application system and see if I ever applied before?

    And they don’t say how far back they want you to go. What if you applied to a job a few years ago? How am I supposed to know which matter?

    1. Turtlewings*

      I have no answers for you, but I absolutely share your frustration. It is unbelievably irritating how much time and effort employers want you to expend at the very first step in the process.

      1. Applications FTL*

        Yes! And it seems like prior applications shouldn’t matter, unless you’re applying to tons of random jobs.

        Once I had a recruiter leave me a voicemail saying to call them back ASAP, and it turned out they just wanted to ask if I had ever applied there before because the hiring manager thought I sounded familiar. I’d applied to a job there three years ago, but the recruiter said that job was for a different department so the hiring manager must have been confusing me for someone else. When I reached out to the recruiter a few weeks later, they said the hiring manager was passing on my application because I didn’t have enough experience. Was so angry. If they already thought I didn’t have enough experience, why were they bothering me with a phone call about prior applications?

    2. Just Another Manic Millie*

      I am so glad that I was never asked that, because I doubt if I would remember if I had ever applied to a particular company, especially if I hadn’t been called for an interview, let alone the dates. I can’t even remember the name of the company where I had my first job, maybe because the job lasted only four days, and I never put in on my resume. When I looked for what was my second job, I pretended that I had never had a job before. But I do remember that it was a travel agency.

  74. Alistair*

    Hey all, I could use some advice. BLUF: I’m about to become the only person in my office who regularly comes in to the office itself, and it’s got me worried about my mental health.

    So we’ve always had a small office. Our largest cohort was 7 people. Since then, we lost a few folks due to resignations, and we lost a few others due to them moving out of state and becoming remote workers. One other coworker lives about 2 hours away and I only see them maybe two or three times per month. That leaves me as the only person who actually comes in to the office on a daily basis.

    I’m worried about what being on my own all the time is going to do to my mental health. While I tried not to get all of my social needs met at the office, the fact is that was a large part of my daily social interactions, and I’m worried that being totally alone all the time will really come to bother me. Additionally, being the only one in the office has put a lot of administrative stuff on my shoulders, leading to breaks in concentration and focus when that stuff rears it’s head. I’ve also found I procrastinate a lot more when I’m alone.

    I can’t work at home, as there’s too many distractions there (cats, kid, TV, games!). I’m trying to see friends more, but that social contact seems so minimal compared to the social contact I would get at the office. While I’m fairly good with being alone a lot (only child here), I still worry this situation is really going to wear on me. I can still contact coworkers on the phone or Slack…but that still doesn’t feel the same either.

    So gentle readers, what Ideas and/or Advice can you pass on to me to try and keep my spirits and mental health up now that I’m going to be on my own so much more? And any tips or tricks to help keep focused and limit my procrastination?

    Thanks in advance!

    1. Alianora*

      Can you try scheduling lunch with friends during the workday? I do this, and it really helps to break up the day.

      Also, if you have any other occupants of the building or maybe neighboring businesses, you could try to get to know them too.

    2. anneshirley*

      Maybe occasionally breaking the time up by leaving the office to go work in a coffee shop for an hour or two? My office isn’t quite as drastic as yours, but there’s days where the only other person that’s in is my boss or occasionally no one, and I find working at a coffee shop for a bit, rather than at the distractions of home or the rather lonely office, to be helpful. There’s not exactly in-depth social interactions, but it’s nice to be surrounded by other people working.

    3. emmelemm*

      I hear you. I’m in basically the same situation. I don’t hate it (also an only child, used to it), but I worry about it sometimes.

    4. NaoNao*

      If no one is really coming to the office, is it a consideration to close that office and for you to work out of a coworking space or something similar (rented commercial space, rented office in a larger building) ? That’s immediately where my mind goes! Or if it’s just going to be you, can you work from a coworking space a few days a week or a few hours a day? Or from a coffee shop, or quiet public place?

      If you’re in a shared building, I’d try to get to know the other tenants if possible, or take walks around the office park, neighborhood, or area—maybe try to be a regular at a local deli or coffee shop on your lunch hour.

      1. spock*

        I had the same thought about coworking spaces! I think it would be totally reasonable to ask your company to cover this instead of expecting you to be isolated all day. I’m writing from a coworking space right now that costs $200 for unlimited M-F access, so they can be quite affordable compared to various business expenses.

    5. Quiltrrr*

      In a similar situation…my department was just 3 of us. One just quit and left, and my boss works from home most days. This leaves ME, with a bunch of people around me that have no overlap with what I do. I’m not comfortable talking to people I don’t really know, and I have definitely felt the isolation. The one that quit was a social butterfly, and she wouldn’t let me be isolated for long.

  75. Roscoe*

    This question involves glassdoor.

    Does anyone know, do companies get a notification when a person writes a review of the company, or is it just if they happen to be monitoring their company page?

    1. demosthenes*

      Glassdoor is fairly aggressive in contacting employers to address the comments, pay to “sort the comments” (put ones that are negative lower, etc), pay to manage their page and to have the ability to respond to the comments. But if the business hasn’t subscribed to the management of their page in order to reply, it will take time to be assigned to a selling agent.

    2. William Monk*

      In my past experience, Glassdoor sent a summary info email (including reviews) to the company’s account owners and authorized users, I think on a weekly (maybe monthly?) basis.

  76. Little Beans*

    My office has a space shortage. When I was hired a year and a half ago, my 3-person team was given 2 offices to share. This wasn’t ideal but one office was large enough to share so we figured we could make it work. 6 months ago, I received funding to hire a 4th person and was told to go ahead with recruiting while my bosses worked on finding space for them. The new person started, still no new space. We currently rotate desks and each work from home one day a week. Then, 2 months ago, I was asked to take on supervision of another new person. Because we obviously had no space, this person was temporarily assigned a cubicle in another building about a 10 minute walk away.

    Throughout this process, I’ve regularly asked for updates on the plans and timeline for resolving our space issue (the long-term plan is that we’ll all move to a new building but it hasn’t been built yet so that is years away). Usually I’ve been told they’re working on it, while various plans have been proposed and not happened. Both my boss and grand-boss just recently left, so I’ve been waiting for the new leadership to come in and get settled. This week, my new boss mentioned casually in a staff meeting that they don’t see anything changing in our current building for at least a year. I think this is unacceptable but don’t know what to do! I understand that they can’t magically create space where it doesn’t exist. At the same time, I am responsible for a team that is unhappy and that has been given false promises multiple times now. I have a one-on-one meeting with my boss next week – how much can I push back on this?

    1. Frankie*

      Spell out the negative impacts this is having on work and the team and push for a different solution. Spell out what your ideal situation would be, and ask for suggestions in boosting morale/efficiency if the situation really isn’t going to change.

  77. carrie heffernan*

    I applied for a job back on 12/31 and didn’t hear back – but they have reposted the job so I sent a follow up email to reiterate my interest. Still nothing. The job aligns pretty well with my skills so I must have the worst resume on the planet or something. Super frustrating.

    1. I edit everything*

      Or they’re terrible at writing job descriptions. Or whoever wrote the job posting didn’t talk to the hiring manager. Or, or, or…. So many reasons.

    2. De Minimis*

      This happened to me once, and I reapplied. I then got a letter that said to stop applying. At least I got a response.

    3. PMP*

      this keeps happening to me for a job in another state. High-level, kind of specific role but my frustration is more that they never send the “thanks but no thanks” email…just keep on posting the same job. Even the job req number on their system has the year so I know they arent actually taking it down and reposting…just continually updating it on sites.

    4. beautifully attealing*

      my work is like this: they’ll write a medium-general ad. But they really want expertise in one particular skill, but you just can’t tell from the ad. So, they say they want a,b,c,d,e. But what they really want is b. So if you’ve had great projects in a,c,d, and minor experience in b,e, you think you’re a great candidate, but you’re not what they’re looking for.

  78. Ace in the Hole*

    What should I expect from an informal professional mentoring relationship?

    I kind of fell into this by surprise. I’d interviewed with an agency for a stretch position, and while I was ultimately rejected (didn’t have a required degree) the hiring manager reached out afterwards and invited me to lunch. We work in the same circles and cross paths occasionally but don’t work together per se – different local government departments, but we’ll occasionally be at the same meetings/trainings and such. She’s doing the exact kind of job I would love to do in 10-15 years. I assumed this was going to be a one-off lunch where I might pick her brain about career development and talk shop.

    Instead it seems she wants to take me under her wing and meet regularly to help me build management skills. I’m all for it, but I don’t know what the etiquette is here! Should I offer to buy her lunch/coffee when we meet? Is it okay to email her from my work email, or should I be using my personal accounts for this? She manages the team that does regulatory enforcement for my agency… should I be concerned about a relationship like this coming across as a conflict of interest or otherwise improper?

    I’m sure a lot of this is just me overthinking things, but I’m still new to the career-type-job world and have very little experience with networking or professional relationships outside of coworkers.

  79. OyHiOh*

    On Tuesday, I got a message from a friend. “Hey, are you still looking for work?” Yup! Her work is hiring. I’ve kept a master resume for quite a while so it didn’t take long to put together the page that was most relevant to the job and write a cover letter. Interviewed on Wednesday morning. It’s sales, in an industry I’m familiar with. Company has a unique background that sells well, and ethics I’m passionate about. On our walk through, I spotted numerous opportunities to make a position for myself once I’ve settled in and established my cred as a solid employee. But hiring manager let slip a few words that discreetly suggested the owner may have a raging case of founders syndrome. They’re trying to hire a bunch of people fast but decided to slow this down a little. Meeting with the friend who referred me, tomorrow. Get a sense of how the office functions day to day.

  80. KayEss*

    Travel in the age of Coronavirus: I’m going to Italy in a few weeks, and we will be spending a couple days in the large geographic region of the outbreak there (Milan, Venice, etc.). I’m not canceling or postponing this trip unless the CDC calls for it. I suggested to my boss that I work from home for a period after I return and he’s receptive to that.

    The problem: how do I navigate how long to work from home, without official guidance on that… or preferably, receive official guidance on that? I honestly don’t like working from home (I’m more efficient in the office) and there is a bit of a culture here that WFH is a (grudgingly) earned perk of no more than 2 days per week, and I’d be spending capital with certain people if I insist on a 2-week WFH period that they think is unnecessary. I want to do what’s right here, because I know for a fact there are people in the office with weakened immune systems! What I’d really like is to be able to put it on management to say officially “the responsible, business risk-management thing to do is WFH for X days in this scenario” but I don’t know how to engineer a conversation to reach that. Halp?

    1. Admin of Sys*

      From a covid19 response, the general incubation period is 14 days. If you spend 2 weeks and have 0 symptoms during those 2 weeks, you should be clear. That said, there are some indications that there’s a higher incubation rate for some folks, and WHO is currently suggesting 21 days, I think? But 2 weeks is probably plenty, especially if you don’t interact with folks who are sick or are in a high outbreak location.
      If you are concerned but unwilling to or unable to wfh for the entire 2 or 3 weeks, and you want to be especially careful, you could where a facemask in public until you hit the incubation threshold. (assuming you can find one, since they’re sold out around here. which pisses me off, because damn it, healthy people hoarding masks is going to make the outbreak worse.)

      1. Jules the 3rd*

        um, KayEss is going to a high outbreak location (Milan, Venice). I think 3 weeks makes sense, and KayEss can use the WHO guidance to explain it.

    2. Nicki Name*

      You can start by presenting a fact sheet from a respected authority, such as the CDC or WHO, showing that the incubation period is believed to be up to 2 weeks. (And note that if you do develop any cold-like symptoms during the 2 weeks after you return from your trip, you’ll need to stay home until they clear up.)

    3. KayEss*

      So this ultimately self-resolved, because I was able to naturally bring it up to the person I was worried about having a problem with it (my grandboss). For background, our office has a weird culture of being very WFH-friendly… IF you have earned grandboss’s trust. She doesn’t like the idea of non-specific unknown employees working from home, so the official WFH perks we receive based on seniority are modest and she refuses to hire any new fully-remote people, but in practice established employees are able to WFH as necessary in addition to their scheduled days… but I’ve never seen someone do it for two weeks at a stretch. My boss said already that he supports me in WFH for whatever period of time after my trip I “feel is appropriate” but he is actually at a different location from me whereas grandboss is in the same office and therefore is the one who sees whether or not I’m at my desk. She also does a lot of travel, and just got back from a trip to Australia and came straight back to the office.

      But anyway! I was able to ask her and she said emphatically said to do two weeks WFH or whatever is recommended at that point. Not super looking forward to a full four weeks of missed office face-time and I’ll probably be going crazy after 2 weeks of not leaving the house after, but I’ll survive!

    4. A Frayed Knot*

      I’m glad this was resolved quickly and amicably, but can I just say Thank You for not feeding into the hype that surrounds everything travel related! Be cautious, be safe, be aware, but No.Panic.Allowed. Enjoy your trip!

  81. Jonah*

    My boss put me in a really awkward situation this week when he told me to ignore the company president’s instructions and go rogue with him (for an idea that wasn’t even good!). He also lied to the president twice in the same email thread to make it sound like the president’s instruction wouldn’t work. I told HR via email, and now it’s A Thing because they’re apparently building a case to fire him anyway (according to a trusted C-level source in the know). He’s been with the company for a few years, but he’s only been my boss for a couple months. Now I have to have a meeting with HR so they can “learn more details about this concerning incident.” I’m a nervous babbler, how do I keep it under control and stick to the facts when I sit down with them on Monday?

    1. I edit everything*

      Write out the facts that you want to bring up–a bullet list. That will help you keep them at the front of your mind. Then hold it in your hand (even if you don’t look at it), as a reminder to yourself to stay on topic.

      1. Military Prof*

        Not only should you write up the details and bring them along, you should provide a copy to HR. It will help to make certain that their notes from the meeting actually match what you were trying to convey, that your story is not accidentally convoluted in some fashion, and the HR personnel are likely to thank you for making their job easier. (Unfortunately, I’ve gotten sucked into a handful of HR investigations over the past few years, largely on the basis of seniority–I’ve been here long enough to serve as the institutional memory at this point.)

    2. Rexasaurus Tea*

      +1 for writing things down. Print out any relevant emails too, to give yourself something to refer to in addition to your notes. HR might have those emails on file, but having them in hand can help get you back on track if needed, and let you point out significant parts.

      Take some time this weekend to rehearse out loud what you’re going to say. If there’s someone who can listen to you practice, rope them in. Don’t feel you need to have anything memorized for the meeting, it’s fine to read from your notes!

      During the meeting, if you hear yourself starting to babble, stop and give yourself a few seconds to regroup. You aren’t the first nervous babbler your HR team has worked with, and you won’t be the last. :)

      Good luck! and kudos to you for taking the step to report it. Speaking up about shady stuff is tough sometimes, especially when it’s your boss.

  82. keep me anon*

    I have work trip scheduled to major US city soon (I am also located in the US.) and I have one of the high-risk factors that WHO lists as more likely to have serious complications if I were to contract corona virus 19. (Every other manager where I work is young and/or healthy and doesn’t have any of these specific risk factors listed. I should also add they are more likely to finagle a seat on the corporate jet for any work events while the rest of us fly coach, thus avoiding crowded planes and airports.)

    My presence at this work event is not 100% necessary (which is an ongoing issue at my job but that’s an issue for another day- the waste of money, the waste of time, the carbon emissions) and normally I would just suck it up and go. But I have no wish to risk my *life* or that of my loved ones, especially when the work event could easily go on without me. You would think at the least they would be worried about themselves and the likelihood one of us will bring something back to the office. But I do think a sense of invicibility is at play as well.

    For background, I work at a company that has seemingly limitless resources when it comes to company travel. Many managers have worked here for decades (meaning they’ve been here in the times prior to now when so much work can be done virtually or remotely). I would like to ask management about bowing out of this trip (and I’d have prepared all the things I’d do to ensure things run smoothly remotely) but I’m afraid I’m running up against a culture of- we do whatever the company needs, we go on whatever trip someone comes up with, this is a silly over-reaction to the latest news reports, I’m not worried about my own health, etc.

    What should I say?

    1. Ace in the Hole*

      I would be as bland and factual as possible. “The CDC and WHO recommend people in my situation avoid travel right now, since contracting a respiratory illness could be life threatening. Since it would be unwise for me to go on
      this trip, I’ve prepared [things to run smoothly]. Thanks for your understanding.”

      If they push back, stick with saying “Due to my personal health situation, I can’t risk travel right now. It’s important to me to protect my health, so I’m following the advice of my doctor and the CDC.”

      1. Amy Sly*

        Good script, but I think it would be important to mention “based on the event’s agenda, my presence is not required, though I will available to answer whatever questions/provide whatever background/[whatever business task you would actually accomplish by being there] via phone and email.” Selling always works best when you can frame it as benefitting, or at least being neutral to, the other party.

      2. At risk*

        I just cancelled a work trip to NYC. This IS the language,“The CDC and WHO recommend people in my situation avoid travel right now, since contracting a respiratory illness could be life threatening, therefore I will not be making this trip as planned.”

  83. A librarian*

    I’m a manager at a public library, and got a patron complaint about a librarian’s facial piercing. The librarian is great at their job, we have a loose business casual dress code and are in an area where piercings aren’t uncommon, so I’m not going to ask them to change anything, but I’d love suggested scripts for responding to the complaint!

    1. YouwantmetodoWHAT?!*

      ‘Person’ is excellent at their job, and that is what we care about. And if pushed “Here at (library) we do not judge people on their appearance”. And reiterate how good at their job they are.

      1. Rusty Shackelford*

        I think this implies that if Person wasn’t so good at their job, they could be asked to remove the piercing. I’d go with “Person’s jewelry is actually completely in compliance with our dress code.”

        1. Drago Cucina*

          This. I’ve had it happen with colored hair. I don’t care if someone has blue, purple, or green hair. “They are in compliance with the dress code” is my response to past comments.

    2. littlelizard*

      Other suggestion sounds good. I’ll just add: wow, I can’t imagine what needs to be happening in someone’s head to make a complaint like that. I have a lot of random aesthetic opinions that mean I don’t like a LOT of people’s general clothing and grooming practices, to the point where it’s kind of ridiculous…but I would never, ever, in a million years say anything about it, especially to someone’s workplace (!)

    3. irene adler*

      I think I’d inquire about what problem there was with the service this employee provided.
      “Were they impolite? Did they misdirect you to the wrong place or service? Did they fail to respond in some fashion? ”
      No? No? No?
      “Hmm. I thought there was a problem here. There is not. Thank you for the feedback!”

      2. AnotherLibrarian*

        I think this could come of snarky or overly aggressive if the tone wasn’t really careful. I could imagine myself sounding unkind or sarcastic, so I wouldn’t use this language.

    4. AndersonDarling*

      Thank you for your comment. Our employee appearance policy states [insert policy] and the employee in question is in compliance with this policy. If you would like to protest this policy, the Board of Directors meets on [date] and you can state your concerns at that time.

      1. AnotherLibrarian*

        Yes, I found the most powerful tool for patron complaints when I was working in a public library was the “compliant form” and the times of board meetings. People want to be heard and feel like someone cares about their issue.

    5. CM*

      It depends on how the complaint is worded. If they’re just stating a fact like, “Your employee has a facial piercing” you can say, “I know.” Or, if they’re saying, “I don’t like that your employee has a facial piercing,” you can say, “Okay.”

      If they instead offer some explanation for why they don’t like that your employee has a facial piercing, you can politely disagree or say something like, “Everyone’s entitled to their opinion.”

      What you don’t want to do is apologize, or otherwise give the impression that it’s normal and okay for a library patron to demand that a library employee dress according to the patron’s personal preference. If you really want to dig in and try to turn it into a teachable moment (which I don’t recommend), you can try to Socrates your way through the situation by asking questions like, “What reaction are you looking for from me?” or “Why does this bother you so much?” But, in general, I think the best bet is to just give a neutral acknowledgement that they said words and move on.

  84. Diatryma*

    How much PDA is too much?

    My spouse and I work at the same enormous hospital in two completely different departments. He works nights and I work days, and he’s started clocking out near my work rather than at his own so he can see me before he leaves. We typically do a quick hug, peck on the cheek or lips, very brief conversation (more if he catches me earlier on my way in rather than right at my lab’s door). Some days I pull him into our break room so I can put things away and still talk to him, or if it’s been a rough night, he’ll want more of a supportive hug than a greeting one.

    Is this appropriate? Would it make you uncomfortable?

    1. Blueberry*

      FWIW it wouldn’t make me uncomfortable but I have a high PDA threshold. But maybe keep the kisses to the cheek and not on the lips?

      1. valentine*

        What you’re doing is fine. It’s not like anyone’s leg is wrapped around the other person or you clear off tables and kick doors shut. There’s no making out or winking at colleagues so they can’t not know.

        You’re leading by example. Enjoy!

    2. CheeryO*

      I think any PDA is too much, honestly. Chatting is fine, but if I walked into the break room and saw a couple in a supportive embrace, I would feel awkward, like I was interrupting something private.

      I work with a few married couples, and you would never guess that they were married based on how they interact with each other, unless you overheard them talking about their kids.

      1. Diatryma*

        Do you think the timing makes a difference? With our shifts, this is currently the only time we see each other during the day.

    3. Rusty Shackelford*

      A supportive hug is pretty personal, and could be uncomfortable to witness.

      Also, I’m surprised he can clock out in your completely different department – no one has a problem that he’s basically getting paid to walk closer to where his spouse works?

    4. Cinna bun*

      Yes, it would make me uncomfortable. The chat is fine, but once you are kissing and hugging it’s too much, in my opinion. I don’t think that should be happening in the workplace, at least not anywhere colleagues might have to see it (it could be different if you have a private office, I guess, but I don’t really know anyone who does so…). I’d find it really weird and uncomfortable to have to see that at work, and I’d think less of the professionalism of those involved.

    5. Lucette Kensack*

      I’m going to go against the grain here and say that you’re fine. You’re a person with a life outside of work. It’s not horrifying to kiss your husband in greeting, or to occasionally hug for more than a split second.

        1. Frankie*

          I think a quick hug and a peck are fine, too. I probably wouldn’t do it if I were walking into a meeting, but I’d do it at my desk and don’t think I’d judge a coworker if I saw it.

          Maybe the differentiator is how much overt affection you’re leaning into when doing it. A casual peck as a “see you later” is different from someone being a little more lovey, maybe? Kind of like how on the phone I’d be open to a quick “love you!” in a public space but not one that was more showy or filled with emotion.

          Interesting topic.

          1. smh RN*

            As a night shift worker at a large hospital I’d say you’re fine. There’s plenty of couples who this at my facility. No one bats an eye. It’d probably be different in an office situation. Healthcare is it’s own beast.

      2. Rusty Shackelford*

        I’m envisioning a “supportive” hug as being a lot longer than a split second. Maybe because I’m just so awesome at good long supportive hugs. ;-)

      3. EnglishisLit*

        Yeah, I’m really surprised at people who think a quick hug is problematic. It’s definitely fine.

    6. Donkey Hotey*

      I think it sounds fine but I live in a large, liberal (coastal), American city.
      Your mileage may vary if any of those factors don’t match.

  85. BiblioFeroz*

    My husband and I are having fertility treatment this month. I have 2 big kids from a previous marriage and am pushing 40, so I think most people I work with would be surprised. But here we are.

    The nature of the procedure means that I might need to be out of the office unpredictably and might need to bail on customers at the last minute. What do I say to my boss and colleagues so that they know it’s possible they will have to cover for me? (We do have a culture where this is OK–I cover for them if they’re sick, for instance.)

    1. Turtlewings*

      “I’m about to start a medical treatment that might have X consequences.” Maybe give a timeframe if you can. You don’t have to go into any more detail than that!

    2. Rusty Shackelford*

      When I did this, I was lucky (ha) enough to have bosses who were so checked out, they didn’t notice (or care) that I called the secretary and said “I’ll be a couple of hours late today” on a regular basis.

      In your circumstances, I might say “I’ve got some medical treatment going on – nothing serious, but I’ll have to make last-minute doctor visits that I really can’t schedule ahead of time.” My treatment all happened first thing in the morning, and if that’s how your clinic does things, you’d probably be okay telling them that you’ll always be in the office by X time.

      Good luck!

    3. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      All my friends are having kids “pushing 40” or one had a baby at 42! It’s not as unheard of or miraculous anymore! I just laugh and say “Whatever it’s a Millennial thing, pass the avocado toast.” and move on ;)

      Good luck with treatments.

      Just say that you’re dealing with some medical issues and you have doctor’s appointments, no more information than necessary. They don’t need to know what it’s about, they just need to know that you’re busy with the doctors.

    4. BiblioFeroz*

      Thanks for the tips! LOL, it turns out they needed me to come in today, which I didn’t expect (poor communication) so we’ve already run into “My doctor’s office called and they need me to come in–don’t worry, I’m not sick.” So now I can say that’s on-going and is likely to turn up again in the next couple of weeks.

  86. Just a question*

    I work at a non profit with a history of being a very small, grass roots agency. We are now a substantial size and having growing pains. I have been there more than three decades, so my role is unique. My responsibilities are an eclectic mix of high level duties. How do I find information on how my position should be valued in order to negotiate salary? There is really not a way to find comparable positions in similar markets.

  87. MilenniOwl*

    I don’t know if y’all remember me, but I had posted about how to find a job in a bigger city when I lived a few hours away and of course I can’t find the thread I commented on.
    I did not end up being able to find a job in City B, but I DID (after some shenanigans with current management) find a new job in City A and move to City C, closer to my family and paying less in rent.
    Things turned out okay in the end. I ended up being able to stay in my field more or less, and while I do have to take a small pay cut for this new job, it’s a good move in the longrun.

    1. MilenniOwl*

      I wanted to thank everyone for being so kind when I commented the first time, and the advice I got was perfect, even if I ended up applying it in a different way.

  88. Mx*

    I have just had an interview for a benefit advisor volunteer role in a UK charity. It will involve visiting clients in their home. I am happy doing that.
    However, I am worried that no risk assessments are made before sending a volunteer in the client’s home. Am I over cautious ?

    1. NeverNicky*

      No. There should be at least a solo worker policy and a general risk assessment done if not on a client by client basis

  89. tanya*

    I’m an exempt employee in a company (not a firm) who has been working 4 years and is expected to work 50+ hours per week. My boss (“Barbara”), people above me (including “Isaac”, for whom I do the most work), and grandboss are all “old school.” Barbara says that hours worked equals interest, and that if I don’t have anything to do I can do admin/clerical work like data entry.

    In 2017, Barbara and Isaac said that I needed to do all of the lower-level work that needs to be done before I’m given higher-level work. There is never a shortage of admin/clerical work, partially because we have only one admin assistant who doesn’t know what she’s doing at all, and whom our department is explicitly unwilling to fire, so I am seen as the go-to for tasks that are technically at her level.

    My performance in 2017, when I was given “stretch” tasks, was just okay, partially due to the fact that I had so much other work on my plate that was more immediate, but less substantive. I would work 50-55 hours a week, then get something substantive tacked on at the end, and be burned out/unable to do it quickly/well enough for them. I know that Barbara and Isaac don’t have a high level of confidence in my abilities, but I am also stuck in a loop of not being able to improve and not having said abilities because I don’t have any experience.

    In 2018 and 2019, I repeatedly asked for higher-level work, or to shadow Barbara, Isaac, and others as they do the higher-level work themselves, but that hasn’t happened. In 2019, Barbara noted on my performance review that my subject matter knowledge was lagging behind my four-year experience level.

    My performance review is next Monday. I think that it will be better than the previous one, but I also think that I have done well because I haven’t been given much of substance. I would like to make a real, concerted push toward “stretch” tasks and professional development, but I am now concerned that Barbara and Isaac want someone in this position to essentially support the admin assistant-I’m the most junior person in my department, and I think that it’s easier for them to just leave me at this level so I can continue doing “grunt” work. I would appreciate any advice on how to have this discussion or what to say. The last thing I want to do is sound entitled, or clueless, or like I’m being ignorant and trying to bite off more than I can chew, but I also know that I’m at the point where I have to say something.

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      So they hired you as a Junior Llama Groomer, and are presumably paying you as a Junior Llama Groomer, but they want you to work as the Assistant to the Admin Assistant? If so, I’d point out that this isn’t a good use of their money. And every time they hand you admin work, I’d say “I can do this, but it means I won’t be able to groom llamas, and I know you feel like my llama grooming skills need developing, so wouldn’t it be more productive for me to work on llamas today?”

      Also, find another job. These people are awful.

      1. tanya*

        I agree (and am looking) but it’s very difficult to find Junior Llama Groomer positions. Llama Groomer Firms do not hire laterally, and companies want to hire Senior Llama Groomers, so I have boxed myself into this position for a bit, and am interested in trying to make it work while still looking for other places.

        In terms of the money aspect, they flat-out don’t care about that. The people at the top are so stressed out and overworked (partially their fault, partially not) that they’re not concerned with things like professional development or who is doing what for which dollar amount. If I said “Wouldn’t it be more productive for me to do X,” when given a task that would be seen as borderline insubordinate (and I often can’t point to an X that I could be doing instead). Even if the answer is yes, it would be, again I’m the most junior person. So if it’s something that “admin assistant should be able to do this but she can’t, sorry” or “admin assistant left for the day” then there’s nowhere else for it to go but to me.

        It’s not so much of a problem in the moment as it is stretched out over a long period of time. I’m not going to get all I Need Professional Development if I’m asked to mail one letter, but it’s a bigger deal when Barbara says “I need you to sit in on this call with an employee” and then says “Never mind, Beatrice did it” or just flat-out forgets to schedule or tell me when the call is.

        1. valentine*

          They’re using you most shamefully and they’re lying. They’ve made you the admin. You’d be better off getting a straightforward admin job.

        2. blaise zamboni*

          What does Barbara say when you tell her that you want to focus on your professional growth? You say that opportunities haven’t been passed down to you, but did that not happen after Barbara and Isaac agreed that it *should* happen? Do they brush you off, or do they seem to listen and then get too busy and distracted to follow through? If they are generally receptive, I would emphasize again that you are in your role to develop as a Llama Groomer, your skill set is in Llama Grooming, and while you’ve demonstrated your conviction and work ethic by taking on admin tasks, you are really committed to bringing your subject matter knowledge back up to par this year. (If they aren’t generally receptive, I would still reiterate these points to them but gauge the conversation and bow out if they start being jerks about it. It sounds like you will start being considered for other companies in a year or less, so hang in there and do the best you can with your situation.)

          As far as the commitment to gaining subject matter experience this year part…Are there any recurring events, meetings, tasks that the higher-ups do? Bug them about being included in those. If Barbara mentions that you should sit in on a call, bug her about it until it happens. Don’t let them forget you or pass you over. Are there any other higher-ups that have heavy workloads, other than Isaac? Can you start taking small things off their plates for them, and eventually move up to taking bigger pieces of projects? Are there any professional resources online that you can utilize, whether that’s reading industry news, learning a skill (coding, industry software, etc), or even exploring your company’s past work to get some concept of how things work and can be improved? Start blocking off time for yourself to focus on your own development, if no one else will.

          And as you fill up your own schedule with work-related responsibilities (even if that’s just your responsibility to yourself to research industry norms and practices), give the admin back her tasks. Anything that isn’t time sensitive can wait for her to be back the next day. Anything that she “should be able to do but can’t” – show her how to do it. You’ll have to spend the time working on it anyway, so just take her through it step by step. Do it every time until she can’t complain that she doesn’t know the process. I’m not saying never do admin tasks, because that doesn’t seem possible with the dynamic you have right now, but push back whenever possible.

          Allow the quality of your admin-related work to slip, not to catastrophic levels but enough to make room for the actual work you’re supposed to do. If your company hasn’t hired anybody in 4 years and refuses to fire an incompetent admin, your job is probably not in much danger. Your career is more important than your company’s desire to not staff appropriately. Do what you can to hone your experience and GTFO to something better.

    2. Natalie*

      Just start looking for another job. First of all, if you’re primarily doing administrative tasks, it’s exceptionally unlikely you actually qualify to be an exempt employee. So they’re taking advantage of you by not paying you overtime. Second of all, you’ve been trying to get higher level tasks and stretch assignments for at least three years with no progress and no realistic plan from them. Stop going to that well – there’s no water there.

      1. tanya*

        I’m not going to get into my specific field for anonymity reasons, but I can say that I do qualify as an exempt employee and I’m not concerned with that aspect.

        There may be no water at the well (and I am looking for other positions) but I would at least like to have a more explicit discussion with them before I decide that. A coworker recently remarked that her impression of me is that I’m at times too passive and deferential, which is definitely true, and I don’t feel like I have articulated what I want and need from this place to the point where I can definitively say that there’s no more use in trying.

        I will also add that “just start looking for another job” is easier said than done. Usually people in junior positions are at firms until they have at least 5-10 years of experience, then they are hired by companies. Firms do not hire people who already have the kind of experience I have, so I’ve wedged myself into this corner and have been scouring ads. But I’m a square peg in a round hole, as far as all the job ads I’ve seen.

        1. Natalie*

          Sigh. Nobody can tell that you’re in some particular field with weird norms unless you say that upfront. You might have better luck asking people in your specific field, if you have a professional association or similar.

          Generally speaking, I would not personally put much effort into trying to change this via a conversation at your performance review, when they’ve demonstrated via their actions that they aren’t interested in developing you as an employee. I’m not sure what you’re really expecting to happen here that hasn’t already.

        2. Rusty Shackelford*

          Usually people in junior positions are at firms until they have at least 5-10 years of experience, then they are hired by companies. Firms do not hire people who already have the kind of experience I have

          In that case, you might have to try starting back at the bottom, as if you didn’t already have the kind of experience you have.

          1. tanya*

            I should have articulated this better, but firms don’t hire at the bottom if you already have experience, and companies don’t hire at the bottom either. I didn’t really realize how rare my position was until I got into my current job. Every job opening at companies that I’ve seen wants that 5-10 years of higher level experience.

    3. Juneybug*

      First are some facts I see (which should be called “lies you gotta stop telling yourself”) –
      Barbara and Isaac have a high level of confidence in your abilities, but are using that as an excuse to get you to do the admin assistant’s work. If they doubted you, they wouldn’t have you doing the admin assistant’s work as well as your own work.
      Of course your subject matter knowledge was lagging behind your experience level – your bosses have not set you up for success. However, with a game plan to move forward (listed below are some ideas), it’s going to be harder for them to keep you from advancing.
      Stop thinking of yourself as the most junior person in the room. You might not have the title but you have 4+ years of experience. That’s not junior, that’s being a subject matter expert.
      You are not being entitled, or clueless, or biting off more than you can chew to want your duties to change so you can grow as an employee. In fact, good employers would want you to feel that way.

      Since I am the “take the bulls by the horns” person, please adapt to fit your personality/comfort level –

      Current state –
      List all of your tasks and duties that you currently performing that belong to your position.
      List all of the tasks and duties that you currently performing for the admin assistant.
      This is not “look at what she doesn’t do” but ” look at what I doing to support the company” approach.
      List your accomplishments.
      Make sure to list accomplishments that you share with the admin assistant (since you help her achieve those goals).
      Don’t be shy or modest at your performance review.
      Performance reviews are a time to highlight your accomplishments and take the credit that is due to you.
      Ask for a raise based on the extra duties that you are performing (which is ALL of the duties that belong to the admin assistant).
      Unless it’s the culture for leadership to work 50+ hours, stop working extra hours.
      Read the many, many AAM articles on why it’s bad to give your company the extra hours/your energy.
      Make sure you are taking your breaks and lunches.

      Future state/game plan –
      Figure out where you want to be in your career in the next 6 months, 1 year, and 3 years (position, title, job duties, etc.).
      Design a plan to develop the skills you need to get to your 6 month, 1 year, and 3 year goals (tasks, experience, or training needed to improve your skills).
      Schedule a time to go over this with your bosses.
      Let them know that you want to move forward with the company but need their assistance.
      Schedule follow up monthly meetings so this stays fresh in their minds.
      Do this in advance. Don’t let their “busyness” blow you off.
      When your bosses give you something substantive, especially if something you need to improve your skills, send an email acknowledging the tasks while letting them know that ________ (task) and _________ (task) will not happen.
      Be matter of fact. Don’t apologize or try to fit the low level tasks into your workload.
      Look for training (both in-person and online) to help develop your skills.
      Ask your company to pay for those classes.
      Read business journals or websites to keep up with current knowledge in your field.
      Read leadership books so you will be ready for supervision.

      Exit strategy –
      Give yourself a time frame on when to stop your career with this company if things do not move forward.
      For example, I will leave this company if x years from now, ____________ has not happen.
      Keep your resume updated as you develop new skills and achieve new accomplishments.
      Keep applying for other jobs outside of the company and different positions inside the company.

  90. Art3mis*

    A few weeks ago it was announced that someone in a Lead position would be leaving and I was encouraged by her, my manager, and almost everyone I know here to apply. I wasn’t sure about the job, but due to the encouragement, I did so and had the interview this week. Yesterday my manager told me that they have decided not to hire anyone at this time and to re-evaluate in a month or two. They felt that none of the applicants (there were 4 of us apparently) were “ready” for the role. Specifically she told me that there were “concerns” about my readiness due to an incident that happened last Friday. I was at a meeting and the coworker who I was sitting next to happened to make a comment about her workload. I don’t recall saying anything in response to this but I may have said something sympathetic. I know I didn’t agree with her or tell her she should take up arms or whatever. Still, it got back to management that I was part of this conversation. Am I right to be miffed at this? It seems like management is making hiring decisions based on rumors and I’m being held back because of something I wasn’t even involved in, I was just present for. And who is tattling like this and why? I wasn’t sure about applying in the first place and now I’m really not even sure I want the job even if in a couple of months they decide I’m finally ready.

    1. irene adler*

      Can you have the conversation with manager where you ask her to give you specific feedback regarding what it takes to be “ready” for a promotion to Lead? This would include addressing this conversation with coworker.
      From your narrative, I’m not clear what exactly you did (or didn’t do) that bothers management. Manager needs to give you a concrete explanation regarding what your ‘transgression’ was. You acknowledged statements made by coworker. That doesn’t imply agreement or disagreement. It does indicate that you have manners. Maybe someone embellished your part? Someone who wants to hurt your chances of making Lead at some point? Hate thinking that kind of thing.

  91. Sad Little Rockstar*

    I’m quitting on Monday, but I’m giving 4 weeks notice since I’m attending a major business conference in two weeks. I’ve accepted that they may just cancel my flight, in which case I’ll change my notice to two weeks. I’m the only one who can do my job, and I’ve had nothing but glowing performance reviews, but the last three months have shown me that management is not interested in retaining me. (Example: Last month they gave my youth trainee the same title as me without giving me any notice)
    My question is, how do I ask them to lay me off so I can get employment insurance to tide me over?

    1. CatCat*

      I think it’s a weird ask. What would be the employer’s incentive to do that? If there is some sort of reason they should want to do that, I would focus on that, but I wouldn’t get my hopes up.

    2. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I don’t think you can! There are some letters on this site that may provide guidance, but it would take a lot of chutzpah to quit and then ask the company you’re leaving to agree to make it look like it was their decision.

      As an aside, why not wait until after the conference to give notice? You may need the networking opportunities if you’re leaving with nothing lined up.

      1. Sad Little Rockstar*

        Sorry! Forgot to mention that they just laid off a few people! I was wondering if I could ask to be laid off as well.
        It’s been a really upsetting place to work since Dec and it’s really starting to affect my health.

        1. AvonLady Barksdale*

          If the layoffs are done, I think you’re SOL, especially since they kept you on for a reason. They might be glad to get rid of your salary, but I don’t think there’s an incentive for them to re-categorize your quitting.

          But what about this: if you bring up that you’re unhappy, is it possible they would suggest that you leave before you do? That’s the only way I could see you getting severance or UI.

          1. Sad Little Rockstar*

            That’s a good point. Would it work the same though if I said I wanted to end in 4 weeks and they were like “you have to go today”?

            1. valentine*

              if I said I wanted to end in 4 weeks and they were like “you have to go today”?
              It would still be a resignation. Just like if someone says, “You can’t fire me; I quit,” that doesn’t mean they resigned. They were fired.

              If you’re the only person who can do your job (what about the trainee?), I doubt they’ll want to help you leave. My concern would be that they would’ve liked to have known around layoff time, in case losing you would’ve impacted those decisions.

            2. AnonJ*

              If you gave notice and they terminated your employment because of that you would likely be eligible for unemployment benefits because they ended the employment at that time, not you, and you were not terminated for gross negligence, which is generally the threshold for denying unemployment benefits.

              4 weeks/months/years…doesn’t matter. I’ll be departing this position after big event is over in a month/when my family and I relocate to New City in the summer/when I retire in 2024…if they tell you to take a hike before then they’re terminating your employment on their end and you would most likely be eligible for unemployment benefits short of them being able to prove some serious misconduct that led to that termination.

              And frankly, decent employers don’t spend a lot of time fighting unemployment claims. They state the facts as they are and let the agency make the call. The agency is pretty employee friendly. Good employers don’t expend the time and money to fight UI decisions just to screw over past employees, and the expense of doing so is likely higher than their increased UI premiums so they’d have to be pretty vindictive and petty to go there.

    3. Natalie*

      So, if you don’t have anything lined up, and you need UI to tide you over, why exactly are you quitting? Why not find another job first?

    4. Rose Blue*

      You can’t ask them to do that. That’s just not how it works. If you’re giving notice, you quit. They don’t have any incentive to help you out.

      If you can’t afford to be out of work, don’t quit. Job hunt. Then quit once you have somewhere to go.

    5. Elizabeth Proctor*

      My understanding is that when a former employee gets unemployment, costs for UI can increase for the business. So they don’t have any incentive (emotional or otherwise, which sometimes is the case when they are really firing you but call it laying you off) to lay you off instead of letting you quit.

      1. Elizabeth Proctor*

        (And even then it seems like you can get unemployment even when “fired” in many cases.)

    6. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      Why would they wreck their unemployment ratings for you? They don’t owe you that…that’s there for real situations where they are laid off because of work availability issues or if someone just can’t preform to their standards.

      You can sure ask but they’ll probably say no and think you’re really exiting in a strange way. That’s not what unemployment insurance is for.

    7. Morningstar*

      It would be fraud. Why should you collect benefits when you have the option of being employed? Unemployment is meant for people who are actively trying to work but can’t find an opportunity vs. someone who can work but chooses not to for whatever reason.

    8. Jules the 3rd*

      Hey SLR: At my company, when there are layoffs, it is possible for people to talk to a friendly manager and say, ‘hey, can you put me on the list for the next round?’ People do it quietly, not openly, but I’ve known at least four people who did it (or at least joked that they were going to do it and then got laid off within six months). They were all aiming for a bridge to retirement, so it ended up win-win; the company let go an older, higher paid employee without being afraid they’d join in an age discrimination suit, and the employee got a severance package. 30 years of severance package…

      Can you talk to a manager about whether they’re still considering additional layoffs? Hold off on Monday’s 4-week notice while you check out this option? I’d guess scripts would go something like, ‘hey boss, is the management team still working on layoffs?’ and if yes, ‘while I’ve enjoyed working for you, I am thinking about my next career steps.’ I’d guess that’s got a 20% chance of getting you on a layoff list. Being more explicit with ‘I’m wondering if it there’s really a path forward for me here.’ adds more. It might not play out in the next two weeks, but it might, if they had another round planned.

      The layoffs are really the key – if they don’t have any more planned, then no, they are not going to fire you, let it go. But if they have more planned, they’d rather let you go than anyone else, if they knew you were leaving anyway.

  92. Dezzi*

    Anyone else really stressed about what a coronavirus outbreak would mean to their workplace?

    As awesome as it would be to tell everyone to stay home if they’re sick, our Llama Care Sites have legally mandated staffing ratios, and we….don’t really have a plan for what happens if large numbers of our Llama Watchers all need to be out sick for 2-3 weeks at a time. I asked a member of administration yesterday whether we had any kind of response plan, and the answer was a nervous chuckle and “there have been some emails going around about that.” I’m not in a role where I can do anything about this.

    I am, however, responsible for reams of paperwork if anything drops a Llama Care Site below our mandated staffing ratio. Literally, at least six hours of work for every. single. incident. of this, even “we were out of ratio for ten minutes because a staff went outside to talk to his dying mother’s oncologist.”

    I am NOT looking forward to the next few months…

    1. plp*

      I am assuming this came from a swine flu incident based just on the year it was published, but we have industry guidance (in the form of a white paper) on regulatory relief in case of a pandemic. I took “ownership” of the plan as a joke in December and didn’t expect to actually need it, yet here we are.

      It mostly details what time-sensitive and people-sensitive activities can be postponed, which you can request relief in, and which you get longer for (and which ones are non-negotiable). It’s pretty hefty, but we’re very highly regulated. If it’s more internal for you, then just brainstorming where you’d come up against issues and how you can mitigate might be helpful — eg, can you consolidate populations to lower the number of staff required, can you prepare drafts of the paperwork for when it happens, can legal help you come up with relief requests, etc. In your position that may be outside of your role, but you can at least look at what would affect you, personally, and prepare in whatever ways you can, even if it’s just giving your boss a heads up that this will be an issue.

      1. Dezzi*

        I just read our pandemic influenza plan from 2017. It spans fifteen pages and does not *once* mention what to do if we have a staffing shortage.

        There’s no way to prep the paperwork ahead of time, unfortunately. Each time we drop below ratio (and every time any other Reportable Incident happens), someone from my department has to speak to everyone who was involved/witnessed what happened and write a full report on it. We can get extensions on the final reports, but we’re required to conduct at least one visit to the site where the incident happened, and the Llamas who were the “victims” in the incident have to be interviewed a) in person and b) within 24 hours. Funnily enough, this isn’t in the plan from 2017 either :P

    2. blaise zamboni*

      I’m guessing you’re in some kind of healthcare situation? Can you look into staffing agencies and shortlist a few quality options? It would be expensive, but regulatory violations are expensive-er.

  93. Wendy Darling*

    A sales guy from my company scheduled a call with me 30 minutes before I normally start work, saying it was urgent. The urgent issue turned out to be that he needed to mansplain something I built to me. The actual issue was he didn’t understand my motivations for making something a certain way, but his response to that was to tell me that it didn’t do what I was telling him it did (because he didn’t understand how it accomplished what I was saying) and that I shouldn’t have made it that way.

    I now have a LOT of anger and not a whole lot to do with it.

  94. Minimax*

    I got thrown under the bus hard this week. Anyone have tips for fixing your rep when you are being scapegoated for a major failure?

    1. Minimax*

      So my boss threw me under the bus. Their product failed to sell and they turned to point at me.

      I decided to own it! I took over the product redesign and am now managing the relaunch. So yeah, if your boss throws you under a bus then take over their work. Relaunch is already looking much better. I expect to reap some rewards when it is a success.

      Don’t fix all the problems while taking all the blame and none of the credit.

  95. Dream Jobbed*

    I think February 29th should be a national holiday. (Either that or rename it “Salaried employees work one extra day this year for free.”) If it falls on a Saturday, you get the Friday before it off. On a Sunday, the Monday after.

    Thoughts?

    (And yes, this is a little tongue in cheek, but a little serious too. A morale booster every 4 years. :D)

    1. Drtheliz*

      Except in 2100! (This is an excuse to use my Obscure Leap Year Fact: a leap year is every 4 years except when the year is divisible by 100 except except it is again if it’s divisible by 400. This is the big difference between the Julian and Gregorian calendars.)

      1. Tau*

        Now I feel old – I remember this being fairly common knowledge around the year 2000, for obvious reasons.

      2. Dream Jobbed*

        I did not know that.

        But I won’ t be here in 80 years, so not something I have to store in my mind palace. :)

    2. Marny*

      But then that poor Leap Year birthday employee would really get zero benefit for her birthday. Won’t someone think of the Leap Year birthday employee!?!

    3. Donkey Hotey*

      I can’t say much, I keep holding out hope that one day Veterans will be the only ones who get Veteran’s Day off.

      1. Wild Blue Yonder*

        It’d be great because then we could really enjoy the sales ‘in our honor’ on the day of and not on the weekend with everyone else.

      2. All Hail Queen Sally*

        I only got veteran’s day off while I was in the military. Every job I have had since then didn’t consider it a holiday.

        1. Wild Blue Yonder*

          I don’t remember getting it off probably because we worked in the DFAC and lodging so it was always a day off some other time. Everyone gets Memorial Day and Veterans Day mixed up and Memorial Day is prominent being the first day of summer kick-off.

  96. Nicki Name*

    Etiquette question!

    I’ve gotten the offer to be converted to full-time at the end of my contract period, which I’m definitely taking! Woo-hoo!

    I’ve never been in a W2 contract situation before. I’m wondering, after the contract ends, if it is customary or appropriate to give a small gift to the person who headhunted me and has been my primary contact at the company which has been directly employing me during the contract? Or should it just be a nice thank-you message with a promise to sing his praises if anyone I know is looking for a recruiter to work with?

    It’s not a mangerial relationship, but he would be considered higher-ranking than me.

    2. Now in the Job*

      Nope, don’t give them a gift. The best thing you can do is promise to forward their contact information if you know anyone who is looking for a placement agent. You’ve already given them plenty–there is likely a conversion fee your agency has negotiated with your workplace that is paid out when you’re converted, and that is tied to money in the recruiter’s pocket.

      Congrats! Going perm after being temp is a great feeling.

  97. RemoteToOffice*

    Does anyone have guidance on how to ease the transition from fulltime remote work back to office work?

    I’ve been remote working/teleworking for the past year, and will transition to an office beginning March 30. The office space will be an open office plan, possibly with hotdesking (where you don’t have a set desk, you pick it each morning). Specifically, I’m asking how to mentally prepare myself for: lack of privacy in open office, what are some challenges you’ve experienced/how you overcame them, what helped with ensuring your face/tone are professional in a now public setting, etc. I have gotten used to some non-professional behavior during the yearlong telework routine, and am actively working now to reign in some of those behaviors (nothing shocking, but I’m pretty sure I can’t curse after a frustrating phone call!). For context, everybody in the office will be in the same transition, so my colleagues are not new, we just haven’t interacted in person in about a year.

    1. BadWolf*

      Do you have any coworking spaces nearby where you could pay for a couple days or once a week to go in and “practice” being in an office (and the hot desking -ugh, ugh, ugh)?

      Do you get ready before you start working (dressed, breakfast, etc)? If not, I would start doing a stricter schedule on getting ready, breaking for lunch, ending the day, etc.

      1. RemoteToOffice*

        I try to go to a coffee shop a couple times a month to practice being “on” in front of people. When I started remote working, it was a conscious decision to maintain my morning schedule as though I was going to an office. I’m also scrupulous about making sure I’m in my home office all day and not running errands/doing housework, but it’s super duper easy to take a lot more breaks than usual, get distracted by my home laptop and especially to not wear work appropriate clothes!

    2. Nonny*

      Just know that it might take months to adjust, if not a bit longer. I needed noise blocking headphones very consistently in the first few months of open space work.

      Go easy on each other. The stress of the new space will set off a lot of little grenades and you all might have to make a pact to be very consciously patient and tolerant for a while until everyone adjusts.

      And I would suggest being open about any work or productivity that suffers long term. Ask management what to do about long term impacts, and “just concentrate harder” can’t really be an answer. There’s a lot of research to back this up so you can always come armed with data.

      We moved into an open space and it really took me about 6 months to start feeling close to my old productivity and somewhat “settled.” And my productivity is definitely diminished at least a little bit in an ongoing way. Distraction and feeling of lack of privacy are my biggest issues.

      1. RemoteToOffice*

        Good point to remember for all of us to go easy on each other! It’s been a very intense, quite stressful time for all of us – the remote work is part of an organizational restructuring, and there’s been significant employee turnover, unsustainable workloads, etc. The office opening is supposed to be a sort of light at the end of the tunnel, but I think a year of built up frustration with senior leadership’s decisions is going to come to a head when we’re together again. Honestly, that’s a bigger concern than transitioning back to an office – we’ve held it together for so long, and supported each other from afar, that I’m worried there will be some sort of release of pressure in the first few months.

  98. Washi*

    So I’m in grad school and also doing an internship. One of my classmates is also interning at the same organization and has stated in class that they use they/them pronouns. However, I have heard a few different people at our internship misgendering them when they are not around. (I think because if they’re around, no one is talking about them in the 3rd person.)

    I’m not sure if this is intentional or accidental or if they are not out at the internship at all. Should I correct people? Ask the intern if they would like me to correct pronouns? Just use the correct pronouns and ignore incorrect pronouns that I hear? I am happy to speak up and be supportive but this intern is quite shy and I don’t want to unintentionally put a spotlight on them.

    2. Blueberry*

      Since the intern stated in public, despite their shyness, that they prefer “they/them” pronouns, I think that’s a clear announcement of what they want and that having that double-checked could be stressful. When I’ve run into this I’ve treated it as if someone called them by the wrong name and quickly corrected the person misgendering them.

      1. Blueberry*

        On rereading I need to change my answer — I missed that the announcement was in class and in a separate organization from the internship. In that case check with them — they might not be out at the internship, as you noted.

    3. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      Agreed, you should ask your coworker/fellow student first if they are out at work. Thank you for asking, that’s part of being a good ally.

  99. TechBlender*

    Tech people that have mishmashed jobs: what is your job title?

    My boss and I are trying to figure out what exactly to call my job. I was hired as a business intelligence analyst, but was promoted into an ETL developer role. I do some ETL development…sometimes…but mostly I am responsible for project management within my group (database mgmt and data warehousing) and cloud application infrastructure and security. I dabble in all sorts of things in this role…shell scripting, software installation (Linux), ETL work, technical writing, project mgmt, business process analysis, report development, security implementations, and a fair bit of SQL scripting. I need to have a good understanding of networking, Linux, databases, ETL, database and application security, and project mgmt, but I don’t have to be an expert.

    So what the heck kind of job is this? We’re trying to determine my career path forward, and we’re both at a loss. I like doing all those things. But I’m not super experienced in any of it…not enough to be considered for a more senior level position in any of those areas. I really like doing the business process and PM stuff, but I don’t want to join the PM team…I want to focus on databases/data warehousing. I’m good at getting things done and communication with customers, and then back to the developers. I like strategizing. I’ve asked my boss if he thinks a true manager position would be a good fit, and he agreed that with some coaching/training, I’d probably be really suited for that in a couple of years.

    But what do I do in the meantime? Stick with my current title that is 80% inaccurate? Request a reclassification, but to what? My boss is also trying to figure this out, and he’s trying to do it in a way that won’t results in transferring me off the team or getting my pay cut…part of why I was promoted to my current title was so I could have a really good pay bump (though I was doing more ETL work previously, so it was more relevant). Any advice is appreciated!

    Tl;dnr: My job is a mix of tech and business skills with no clear path for development. What do I call myself and how do I move forward?

    1. AndersonDarling*

      I’d call the role a Data Manager, but that gets messy in a lot of organizations because of the “manager” part. In structured orgs, “Manager” means a jump in pay and having a team to manage. But, that is what you do!

      1. TechBlender*

        Thank you! Yes, it’s sort of like a “data warehouse manager” but then that sometimes means “data architect” and I”m definitely not qualified to be a true “data architect,” which seems to require a lot more math/programming skills. Nor do I want to go there. Ideally I’d be an actual manage of a database/warehouse team…so basically my boss’ job.

        1. AndersonDarling*

          Yep, Data Managers set up the databases for reporting and prep new datasources. It’s incredibly underrated…so many organizations leave this up to the end analyst and then you have dozens of people all modeling their own data for 2/3 of their working hours. In my opinion, all the data should be modeled and prepped so you have consistent reporting and your business analysts can spend their hours doing what they are good at. It’s going to be a very marketable skill once more companies modernize.

    2. Admin of Sys*

      Career path is a harder question, but job title in IT is almost always non-descriptive in my opinion. I’m a sysadmin, and my current title is IT Analyst. That’s also what we call our DBAs and programmers and automation folks and everyone in between. Management positions get ‘Director’ in their title, and otherwise, everyone is some sort of analyst. In fact, I don’t think I’ve had a job in tech since I was a help desk analyst that was in anyway indicative of what I actually do. Most companies I’ve been at tend to stick to naming the job band in as general of a way as possible and then sorting duties based on position, not title. And similarly, most folks I’ve interviewed with recognize that the title is likely meaningless and pay more attention to duties and skills, rather than whatever the position got branded with.

      1. TechBlender*

        Ha, thanks! I think you are right – the titles do tend to be pretty meaningless at a certain level. I think I’m getting hung up on what I read in job descriptions – I feel like no one will ever hire me for anything, including a true manager role, because I just have so little “direct” experience in everything. And during my last round of job searching…that hit me really hard. I had 1 year of “direct” BI analyst work, but I’d been in the workforce for 10 years and had progressively more responsible roles and demonstrated my competence…but tons of rejections because I didn’t have “2 or more years” in a BI analyst role.

        I’m not currently job searching, but it’s always in the back of my mind, and I want to be prepared for that if anything about my job changes so drastically that I would feel the need to leave. Like if my current boss left…I love working for him, and he’s going to retire in a few years, and I’m worried about where my team will end up after that.

        Thanks for your comments!

    3. fhqwhgads*

      I’ve seen mishmash jobs like this called “Product Specialist” before. However, if you want your career path to move in a more developer-esque direction, I’d recommend you try for a title that is more reflective of that, even if you retain the not-development responsibilities also.

  100. Retail not Retail*

    I’ve now reported my partner 3 times for sexism and gross disrespect. The first two times I was pretty much dismissed – “ignore him” “he is of a certain age” “have you thought of transferring departments?” And the winner for horrible – him disrespecting and yelling at our work release crew is a work release problem, not our employer problem.

    He is now telling new work release people not to work with me bc i’ll report them. He refers to me in the third person.

    And of course we’re just partnered together so often.

    Finally, after the second report – all verbal – I was told while yes you should report bullying, you are responsible for your feelings. And if the victim of the bullying doesn’t speak up herself it doesn’t matter.

      1. Retail not Retail*

        My supervisor, manager, and HR director. Supervisor multiple times, manager three times, HR director once as a result of talking with manager, and HR manager one on one after workplace respect meeting. (“My partner is disrespectful to his coworkers and the work release crew on a regular basis. What can be done?”)

        1. valentine*

          Is this the only job in town?

          Why not try another department?

          (You might want to specify work partner or call him something less ambiguous.)

          1. Retail not Retail*

            You mean in this thread or in the reports? In the reports I name names and incidents – I lay it allllllll out.

            In June I said i’m uncomfortable working with him, here is all the sexist and demeaning things he says to me, about women, and about guests. I worked one on one with him almost every single day until August and still continue to be assigned with him. When i’m not (“whole group do this”), the other workers say nope he’s your partner you ride with him. He drives everyone nuts and they vacillate between laughing at him and hating what he does.

            No, it’s not the only game in town. I really enjoy the work I do and the departments I’d love to move to I’m not qualified for. There’s an opening in a grosser department but they have an erratic schedule and I just started a second evening job. The pay is low, but it’s full time, comes with benefits, and qualifies for the PSLF. Aside from him, the job is good for my depression and satisfies my restlessness.

          2. Retail not Retail*

            Also, everyone says there are difficult coworkers at every job! You have to learn to deal with them!

            I worked retail, I still never dealt with someone this odious day after day. We rarely worked one on one or alone away from customers. Here guests see us and may ask us questions, but it’s not a big part of our job description. We talk about everything and nothing because the work can be boring and repetitive and in public, no headphones allowed.

            1. valentine*

              You mean in this thread or in the reports?
              In this thread.

              everyone says there are difficult coworkers at every job!
              This is at the level of “At least he doesn’t hit you.” I think you’ve convinced yourself there’s no greener grass. Maybe you are afraid to look or even to find it. If you’re staying, you’re better off considering him a tax on your job and detaching from all the horrible stuff he does to everyone with less power. If it hasn’t already, continually reporting him will hurt you, with people considering you a troublemaker, or, worse, thinking of it as you harassing him. It could also hurt your coworkers, who may not feel they can tell you to stop white knighting for them and naming them in your reports.

              Your true problem is management, and you deserve to work someplace where TPTB will corral gross people so you can work in peace.

  101. WorkingGirl*

    Does anyone have tips on dealing with a boss with autism?

    Storytime: From the first time I met my boss over 3 years ago when I interviewed here, the guy just seemed… off. Like he made all this eye contact but it felt REALLY forced and he would speak in a way that felt so robotic. As I started working here I discovered he has little to no social awareness – no concept of “oh, I am in this person’s personal space and I should step back / maybe this person doesn’t want to be in my personal space so I shouldn’t force them to stand so damn close”, no capability to understand why other people might think or feel differently from him, and a few super niche interests/obsessions.

    So this week (three years into working here) he told he me he has autism. Okay, that makes a lot of sense. What I’m struggling with is: how do I move forward? He brought it up when I tried to push back on a ridiculous, micromanaging demand (I offered a way to reformat a project list that’d make it SO much easier to update, but wouldn’t actually change how things look or work on his end; he said no, and even when I explained that it wouldn’t change ANYTHING for him but would make my job easier, he said that he “likes it the way it is”- this is a common thing, he’s very bad with technology but refuses to learn or change). He’s honestly kind of jerk sometimes, for example pushing back on raises with “oh my car isn’t working so I’m really stressed and can’t think about this.”

    I’m looking at other jobs, but it might be a while before I find something. I’m in a competitive but not well-paid industry and most jobs are in a city that would cost me like $400/month to commute to.

    What I WANT to say is “Hey, you having autism doesn’t give you the right to be a jerk and an obsessive micromanager, you hired me for a reason so please trust me to do my job and treat me with respect”…. but I feel like there’s got to be a better way to actually approach this.

    1. jen*

      I would phrase things as, “X is seriously affecting my work in Y and Z ways. I would like to do A and B about it.” At the end of the day this really isn’t about his having autism, even if that provides some context and background. If he says “My car isn’t working, now’s not a good time,” then you propose a new time/meeting.

      I suspect that he’s used to people backing off when he plays the autism card. On your end, be sure that you’re bringing up things that really do impact your work, and that you can frame in that way. “Bad with technology” is an annoyance for sure, but that’s different than (for example) “I need a new printer because the old one breaks down every time and costs me half an hour in productivity a day.”

      1. WorkingGirl*

        Thank you! I think you’re right- I got the vibe from his conversation that he expected that, once he mentioned the autism, I’d stop pushing back.

        When he pushed back the raise because “my car isn’t working I’m too stressed” (which…. wtf???? Would he accept me saying “my car isn’t working” as justification for poor performance, absolutely not), I WISH I’d had the gal to say something in the moment about how I didn’t see what that had to do with anything… we rescheduled the meeting for two weeks out, early Feb; at that meeting he told me “business is slow now but let’s touch base in two weeks, if business has picked up we can talk about the raise then”; mid-Feb, I brought up how the past two weeks business had been REALLY good (he’d even said it!), and he said “if it’s still good early March, I’ll give you half the raise ($0.50/hour) first week of March, and then the full amount (the $1/hour I’d asked for) first week of April.” This is all after I’d first brought it up in like, October? He keeps moving the goalposts.

    2. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      I’m glad you’re looking elsewhere because sadly, I see this boiling down to the two of you not being a good fit for each other.

      I would just go towards the “Okay this isn’t working for me, it makes it difficult to do my job when you do X.” and “I can’t think about this right now.” means you say “when is a better time for you? This is an important issue for me and it needs to be addressed soon. I can give it a day or two but we have to revisit it.” you don’t have to take a brush off to be eternal. Take it for the moment. “Okay, not today but then when?” and dig your heels in there.

      But in the end, this is your boss and he doesn’t really have to bend to meet your needs, he’s in the power position. He may not be able to do what you need him to do to be a boss that you need him to be. That’s unfortunate and frustrating but int he end, lots of bosses are like that.

      I say this as someone who had to learn to work without a boss at all when a bosses health deteriorated. Then I had to morph to deal with a self described “control freak”. In reality, you both should compromise but sometimes it’s not possible, so instead of locking horns, you let them win because they’re signing your paychecks.

      1. WorkingGirl*

        Yeah. I’m honestly pretty nervous about the idea of switching- I can’t afford a $400/month commute into the city right now, nor could I afford to move much closer, and I’m really not in a position where I have an obvious “next step.” Ugh. It’s what I need to do though.

        1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

          How much will it take to get to the next step? Can you hang in there and just deal with his annoyances to get the time/experience to launch??

    2. Hi there*

      Looks good! I just moved into a new office on my campus, and your letter helped me rethink the twenty years of personal items I have accumulated at work.

      1. Mbarr*

        It was the hypocrisy of it all:
        1. Incubation period is 2 weeks – he was asked not to come back for 4 (not that he knew the timeline of when they’d ask him back, he was told just “until it blows over”).
        2. There was no company wide decision – this was a single office asking.
        3. Other head honchos (Caucasians) were NOT asked to self-quarantine despite being overseas in a week long all day meetings with a bunch of sick Chinese people.

        1. LGC*

          1: to be fair, COVID-19 is a new disease. Scientists think the incubation period is two weeks, but there’s a chance that it can sometimes be longer.

          2: I think that who made the decision is irrelevant, personally.

          3: DUDE I HAVE SO MANY QUESTIONS RIGHT NOW and this is the real red flag here.

          If your company singled your coworker out because he’s Chinese (I think you said the area he visited was not Wuhan or Hubei in general) and did NOT target non-Chinese employees who did the same thing, that is extremely problematic and something that a halfway decent HR department would love to know about.

          (Speaking of problematic: your last sentence isn’t great! Unless they were actually visibly ill. Actually, even in that case – to me, it reads like you’re implying that because they’re Chinese, they’re infected. Although I’m a bit touchy because I just had to argue with my neighbor that ordering Chinese takeout was fine.)

          1. Diahann Carroll*

            I think the last sentence was supposed to be sarcastic – she’s mocking the hypocrisy of her company for calling out the Asian employee but not the white ones.

  105. I pledge allegiance to the Drag*

    (Vent/Sigh/Annoyance) We’re moving again! My husband is in another state reviewing a position, with the same company, to see if we want to go (95% we’ll go because it’s a better role than what he’s doing now). We want to go to ‘this state’ – especially with this company who will pay for the move – because we want to be close to another city, in ‘this state’, for when a whole different company opens up hiring. If that job doesn’t materialize we’re still between two major cities with amply positions in my husband’s industry. Caveat: the company my husband works for is #1 in its industry and is (not publicly confirmed) selling its North American units so odds are we’ll go through a re-org/layoff again but probably not for a year or so. Hopefully, by then we’ll find something else.

    We moved in 2017 to join this company in a new city. This will be our 4th move post-military retirement in 8 years and our 6th move in 15 years of marriage. While I’ve been able to secure roles, in my industry, they aren’t high-level positions and don’t really use my skills as much as I want to because of the moving. It’s like being a military spouse all over again. I want to work in an office (a good one of course) and make friends with my coworkers and have a life outside my house although I love working from home, too.

    At least we’ll be leaving this city which we’ve never taken to and go back to where we started our lives together (kind- same state, different city)

  106. Triumphant Fox*

    When in the process do you ask about benefits and how do you ask? What do you expect to see at that point? Can you ask about what exactly the insurance looks like? Is it a red flag to ask about maternity and paternity benefits? At my current job, I realize that while I asked about some of them in general, the reality once I got here was a bit different. PTO doesn’t start accruing until 6 months in, if you take maternity leave it doesn’t actually constitute a leave of absence – that’s different and means you need to pay for your benefits out of pocket for that time. Things like that, I didn’t think to ask about ahead of time and I don’t know what I would ask now.

    1. Natalie*

      I’ve typically asked for and received that information once they’re making me an offer, as it isn’t really relevant until then. I wouldn’t worry too much about asking about specifics being a red flag at that point because they’ve already decided they would like to hire you. It would also be a bit questionable, ethically and possibly legally, to pull an offer because someone asked for more details on parental leave or health insurance or what have you.

    2. Diahann Carroll*

      My current company gave me that information when they made me a verbal offer (complete with full, in-depth explanations of each benefit); my last company gave it to me after my initial HR phone screen. I think you can ask the question once you get to an in-person interview (if you want to be on the safe side) without ruffling feathers.

  107. Environmental Compliance*

    I have two in-person interviews scheduled next week back in my home state. Excited!!

    But now of course the second-guess gremlins are out in force and the fear of the unknown is popping up. *sigh*

  108. WineNot*

    I am wondering what your companies typically do for a non-immediate family member’s funeral.

    My company has pretty “average” PTO/time off policies, but these days, the policies are brutal compared to a lot of friends/family I have spoken with and compared to past jobs I have had. Last week, I had to attend the funeral of my parents’ best friend’s mother – people who are more like family to me. Long story short, this day off for the funeral turned dramatic with two of my bosses and HR, and eventually they told me that I would have to take a vacation day to go to this funeral (that was a 4 hour drive one-way, so I couldn’t only take a couple hours off). I thought it was outrageous that they make you take precious and slowly-accrued vacation time to do to a funeral when I can only ever have 10 a year. I asked if I could take it unpaid, because It’s not like I was out having fun all day – they literally compared this to other employees trying to take unpaid days for vacation and said “we have to keep things consistent”. All of my friends/family I have spoken to about this confirmed that it’s strange and that none of their compaies do that.

    Hoping to get your opinions because this community has so much experience and is awesome!

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      My employer would have made you take PTO for this day. Bereavement leave is for family members only (there’s an official list), and the fact that you weren’t having fun would be irrelevant, because you also have to take PTO if you’re out for the day because your toilet overflowed or your dog got hit by a car. And a policy against unpaid time off isn’t unusual either, nor is their insistence that this policy has to be used consistently. I’m sorry for your loss, but none of this seems strange to me.

      2. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

        same – our official list even specifies how many bereavement days you get for what type of relation, and if they aren’t a type of relation that’s on the list, it’s just your own PTO.

        1. Diahann Carroll*

          Yup, same here (and this has been the case for every company I’ve ever worked for). A parent’s friend’s mother is not an immediate family member or a secondary close family member like a niece or nephew, grandparent, aunt or uncle, etc., so it wouldn’t fall under any bereavement leave policy I’ve ever seen.

    2. WellRed*

      This sounds pretty typical, actually. Don’t think of it as a “vacation” day, but a PTO day. And yeah, your company has stingy PTO.

    3. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      Everyone employer I have had would make you take PTO, even if it’s an immediate family member. We have unpaid bereavement leave though. We also have no problem with unpaid time off though, so lots of people opt for that option in that situation.

    4. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      One reason places don’t do “unpaid time off” in these cases though is because you can easily “kill off” fictional people. You of course aren’t like that and neither am I. But believe me when I say it happens.

      File it under “Can’t have anything nice.” [Only we still don’t care, we just keep track of people being gone and if it’s a pattern/problem then they’re donezo, we don’t mess around with it.

      1. WineNot*

        True. I was actually just talking with someone last night about two coworkers. One coworker took a day off for her bachelorette party, and the other took a day off because her grandfather died.

        The girl who said her grandfather died was caught on social media at the bachelorette party! Their boss found out and confronted the girl and planned to fire her if she lied about it. She didn’t, but the boss was like “I would have given you the day off, why did you have to lie”. Now she will never be trusted again. People are so weird.

        1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

          Screaming. Screaming. SCREAMING. I hope her grandfather is already passed because that is baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad vibes man, baaaaaaaaaaad. The things people lie about are gutting. I wouldn’t ever want to put that into the atmosphere but i’m a weirdo like that. Yikes!

    5. CheeryO*

      My government employer is fairly loose with its definitions (we get official bereavement time for “family,” which can include anyone who you live with, regardless of relation by blood or marriage), but I’d have to charge PTO in that situation. Unpaid time off really isn’t a thing, either, except in very unusual situations where newer employees absolutely need more time off than they have accrued. I’m sorry for your loss. :(

    6. stay behind the railing*

      My employer provides 5 days of bereavement leave per fiscal year that we can use however we need. Last year I had a non-immediate family member pass away in an accident while on vacation, and as the only able-bodied adult in the family, I was the only one able to go collect their car/belongings/remains, which ended up taking 9 working days due to some legal stuff. My employer was really generous with not requiring me to use PTO to cover the other 4 working days (I think it helped that what happened was covered on national/international news), which I was fully prepared to do.

      Your employer is being outrageous and if mine had acted like that in my situation, I would have quit.

      1. TheFacelessOldWomanWhoSecretlyLivesinYour House*

        Actually, the employer is acting like a vast majority of employers. Every one I worked for required bereavement leave for certain family members and PTO for the rest.

    7. WineNot*

      Our bereavement is also for immediate family members only, though my boss initially told me to put the request in for bereavement and to let HR know. That’s when the drama began that involved heated conversations behind closed doors without me but that I could hear, that I had to walk away for. It was very awkward. All I wanted was the option to take an unpaid day and not be forced to use PTO when I get so little every year.

      I also hated that they tried to compare me wanting to take an unpaid day for a funeral to a coworker trying to take an unpaid day so they can have a longer vacation. Oh well! Hopefully I don’t have to go to another funeral for a long time, and by then, I’ll be somewhere with more flexibility.

      1. Rusty Shackelford*

        I also hated that they tried to compare me wanting to take an unpaid day for a funeral to a coworker trying to take an unpaid day so they can have a longer vacation.

        But the thing is, from their end, it doesn’t make a difference. An unpaid day for a salaried employee can be a HUGE headache. At my employer, it impacts the amount of leave you earn (we accrue ours monthly), the benefit allowance that pays for your insurance, and who knows what else. It’s not just “oh, la di da, we won’t pay you for Monday.” And even for an hourly employee, unpaid days off mean the workplace isn’t staffed to the level they’ve determined it needs to be staffed. And if you let one person do it, you have to let everyone do it (unless you come up with a policy that limits it to emergencies, which would exclude both vacations and funerals).

    8. ...*

      We probably would have had to take PTO for this. Its tough when a family friend is like family in these situations. Our Hr will approve non immediate family or perhaps your best friend requests on a case by case but otherwise its strictly close family. Pretty sure this would be PTO.

    9. Daughter of Ada and Grace*

      Our bereavement leave policy specifies 3 days for a close relative or 1 day for a more distant relative, plus additional time “at the manager’s discretion”. (The policy also spells out what “close” and “distant” mean.)

      The “manager’s discretion” part implies that someone’s manager might be able to approve bereavement leave in a situation like yours, but that situation hasn’t come up since I’ve worked here, so I couldn’t say. (I do know that my management has never asked for any proof (like an obituary, or a program from the funeral) when I’ve taken bereavement time – 3 different distant relatives, 1 day each.)

    10. fhqwhgads*

      3 days bereavement for immediate family (immediate defined as spouse, sibling, parent, child).
      1 day bereavement for any funeral for anyone other than the above.

      Many years ago the original policy was 1 day for any other family, but in an attempt to be more inclusive (there were some specific examples at the time of not-family but of course we’d give bereavement knowing the circumstances) a kind and thoughtful person on the leadership team decided, you know what? We’re not exactly going to ask for receipts for a funeral. And there are enough outlier cases they felt were the right thing to do to allow that it didn’t make sense to try to iterate every circumstance that’d be approved for a single day bereavement leave. So they changed the policy to just be “any funeral, one day” to avoid having to evaluate on a case-by-cases all the exceptions they realized were reasonable. I don’t know if this is a common policy, but I think it’s a very good one.

  109. MountainTops*

    Anyone got tips on working with paraprofessionals when you yourself are a relatively newbie within your profession. I am 3 months into my new job and work with some paraprofessionals who have been here for 30 years and have tons of knowledge to impart. They are a super great resource and I am able to rely on them a lot, but it is hard to draw a line about decision making etc. when I technically am the lead and need to justify outcomes.

    I think I find it even harder to draw the line, because prior to receiving my qualification, I used to work in a role that was supervised by paraprofessionals in my field. So I naturally slip into a deferential role with some of my colleagues.

    I am not their manager, so this isn’t about learning how to manage. More about learning how to be comfortable in a leadership position when you are relatively real world inexperienced.

    1. Dr. Anonymous*

      I was in this position myself in my librarian days. Think about your role: it may be that you focus on the “what”—the direction of what needs to be done— and you get their valuable input about the “how”—how to do things, how long things take, pitfalls that may not have occurred to you. You also bring an outside perspective of ways to do things they haven’t thought of and may have to ask them to try doing things a new way.

  110. AlltheLibraries*

    Any corporate librarians out there who can tell me what it’s like? I’m thinking of trying to switch from school library to corporate and have previously worked in academia. What are the things you like or don’t like about the job?

  111. Sharkie*

    With all this Coronavirus talk and stuff I can’t help but think of the OP whose employee has hypochondria and is annoying all his coworkers with his medical talk. I really hope “Ronald ” is ok.

  112. Ms. FS*

    My company just went through a restructure that really just meant that most of my team was cut and now my remaining team member and I are expected to absorb the job duties of two additional people that were cut. I was already stressed out before from a micromanagement boss, but now I’m more stressed out and teetering on mental breakdown kind of burn out. After talking through the whole ‘who does what’ now, with my new boss, I asked whether we were going to prioritize what gets done and what needs to potentially drop and my boss said nothing can drop. That we can only find other ways to cover it, like contractors. Contractors can help but they don’t reduce the workload completely, and at times they add workload. To top it all off we are experiencing a total crisis and I’ve been up since 4am working.

    I’m sorry just venting, but honestly I’m just at my wits end. Commiseration would make me feel better! Or even better, tell me stories about your shit job that you got out for a better job!!

    1. Havarti*

      Please, please, please tell me you’re job searching. “Nothing can drop” is such an unreasonable expectation. The sun rises in the east. Rain is wet. Things will drop. You will burn out. Bears poop in the woods. The pope is catholic.

      1. Ms. FS*

        I was job searching, and had a couple of interviews, but my spouse is in the middle of final interviewing for positions in other parts of the country. So we might be moving and so I’ve been looking for remote jobs and/or holding steady until we find out if we are moving. Its a tough spot to be in, and I’m the primary earner by a lot. So its not a great situation I’m in, not easy to figure out what to do. Ugg.

        1. Havarti*

          Hopefully you’ll find out soon about the moving situation. Staying long-term at this job is not going to do you any favors. In the meantime, I suggest mentally disengaging from the work if possible. Show up, do what you reasonably can, and then go home. Your company and boss have created this banana-crackers problem that you cannot single-handedly fix so don’t try.

    2. The New Wanderer*

      My colleague, who is only 3 months into her current role, showed her manager that she has been assigned 4 people’s worth of work and asked how to prioritize. He basically said the same thing about how it all has to get done (they’re staffing up, but slowly, and management has not been good at onboarding or assignments that are reasonable). I’m hoping for her sake that any deadlines are flexible because she’s already working OT just to keep up with the minimum she thinks is needed.

    3. Dr. Anonymous*

      So you ask (or privately decide) what needs to be first, and you do things in that order, and that’s how you find out what’s going to drop. Work as hard as you reasonably can, and then go home and tackle the next thing tomorrow. They can be a certain freedom in knowing your job is impossible. Unless they are truly crazy they won’t fire you while they are this short staffed, but no matter what you do they will be unhappy. That’s okay. Limit how much you give. No reason for everybody to be miserable. Save your own soul.

  113. Jude*

    Help on Understanding ‘Project Management’

    I recently found a job that I am very excited to apply to, and I more than meet all of the requirements, except for one that has me flummoxed. It is a position in higher educaiton that that asks for two years of experience in “project management” in either education or business. I quite honestly can’t picture what project management is in an education setting. It isn’t a term or a job title that’s common in this field. I have 8+ years in higher ed and in that time have managed 60+ student workers per semester, run campus-wide programs and processes, and been in charge of an office on campus. Does any of this count as project management? Can I spin it in a way that shows I have the skills, even though I don’t have the job title?

    Thanks for any advice…

    1. PMP*

      If you are going by the project management industry standard, a project is described as something that is temporary and specific to itself. Tasks that you do that are essential to daily operations of the business would not be considered a project, however if you have something that you do during a semester that is specific to that group of students, has a definite beginning and ending point, a specific deliverable at the end of the semester, that may be considered a project.

    2. Rusty Shackelford*

      A campus-wide program sounds like a project to me. They’re probably looking for experience with budgets, scheduling (ideally using specific project management software), logistics, and that kind of thing.

    3. AnotherAlison*

      I think how you spin your previous experience really depends what this role would be PM’ing. In a university setting, you could be doing any number of things as a PM. I’m a private company employee working on a government funded technical project that has a university as the lead awardee, and they have a PM. The university may also need to build a new building, and they would have a PM for that. Totally different types of projects.

      If you don’t think any of your experience was really project management, I also think it’s important to emphasize that the skills you used in an operational role provide a foundation to execute specific processes in a PM role, but not over-spin that they were the same thing. Procurements (for example) under a project are different than procurements from an operations budget, and it’s just important to acknowledge the difference.

    4. Marion*

      My only experience is in higher ed, so I don’t know what other fields mean by this, but:
      – Have you managed a significant event – a research symposium, student orientation, college-wide staff retreat, etc.?
      – Have you significantly overhauled a system or process? Chosen and implemented a new software, or gathered input and supervised a renovation?
      – Have you conducted any major assessments or participated in accreditation?

      Any of those would probably count as project management in an academic setting.

  114. Fed up or out*

    Need some ideas on how to take a situation, and potentially next steps.
    I’ve been in my current position for approaching 4 years. I’ve been given a standard annual increase (around 3%) and worked with my company to attend training for, test, and obtain a professional certificate for my role. I realized that I am approaching a point in my role that in my opinion should mean moving up. My current title is Analyst but with my current experience including my certification, I believe I am moving towards a manager role. I sat down with my boss to ask how she felt about my performance and ask about the next step. She agreed I have been doing very well, that the next step would in fact be the manager position (its an open one, there is no one else in my department in my role so I am not waiting for anyone to move out or competing for that position) BUT I shouldn’t expect that promotion in the next year. This bothers me for two reasons-
    The first, and the reasoning she gave me behind no promotion at this time is that the great grandboss resigned from the executive role a month ago, so the grandboss was promoted to that executive role, and therefore isn’t in a position to be requesting promotions from the CEO for his departments due to this. I honestly don’t see how all of that has anything to do with employee retention and think it was just lip service to delay promotions in the department.
    The second reason, which I have discussed with my coworkers, is that one of our superstar employees decided mid year last year to take an offer in another city close-by providing them with better pay and a managerial opportunity. My boss was beside themself but was unable to match what the other company offered and so super-star employee left. Fast forward three months, and super-star employee has returned upon finding out the grass isn’t greener on the other side, and what I suspect, he wasn’t treated as quite a superstar in the new role. Employee returns, picks up where they left off, and now about 6 months later, gets a promotion! My other coworker who is in the same role as superstar for the same amount of time, has only been promoted once and was told the same thing about getting a promotion. To be honest, she is feeling quite demotivated due to this. My question is, is it time to start looking for a more advanced role outside of my company? Do I have to have an offer from somewhere else to open managements eyes? I feel that is the example they have set with superstar employee, but also makes me wonder, if they are willing to go to bat for a promotion for someone who leaves, why are they not willing for fight for employees who are remaining faithful (I hate to use that term but thats really the best way to describe maintaining hope that I will eventually get a promotion and continuing to work here)

    1. WellRed*

      You can’t see if from where you are, but from over here, I see a company that isn’t going to be promote you and is giving you some pretty lame reasons. Start searching.

  115. Sparkly Librarian*

    I’ve been so frustrated and down about work recently, but there may be a big change on the horizon! I submitted my interest in potential reassignment to a number of different locations a couple months ago, and one of them (the best one) now has an opening. I spoke with the hiring manager yesterday about it and hope to hear back next week, and if I’m reassigned it will be a very quick transition. I don’t know if anyone else in my classification has submitted interest for that location, but I may well have seniority (which may but not must be considered in these decisions) and I think it would be a good long-term fit. Right now I’m just spinning my wheels in a deathly slow/underattended location, but I’d be hopping into the heavily-trafficked main location just in time to gear up for the busy summer season. Could be 0-60 in 2 weeks!

    What was the best thing you did to transition from one job to another? (I can’t take any vacation in between, but I will make sure my already-approved vacation dates transfer over.) What was the thing done or left behind by your predecessor that was most helpful or appreciated when you moved in?

    1. AnotherLibrarian*

      My predecessor left me a really sweet note on my desk. It talked about the job, advice about the new place I was working and a guide to where important files were on the shared drive. The position have been open for a few months before I came and I was so grateful for the leg up. For me, I have always found trying to schedule my changes on a Monday to be helpful. I know you can’t take time off, but getting a weekend to decompress and relax is super helpful. Also, practice the drive there if you can a few times and sort out where you will park before your first day. Good luck!

  116. Anonadog*

    Would love to hear people’s thoughts/experiences on pregnancy and being newly unemployed.

    I’m currently looking for a new job after being laid off, and we’re trying to conceive. I’m worried about what will happen if I accept a job and then find out I’m 2-3 months pregnant. (We’re not willing to stop trying until I’ve been at a job for long enough to qualify for FMLA – we’re older and time is ticking.)

    Has anyone else been in this situation? I know we’ve had some letters from people who started jobs newly pregnant and would love to hear what others have experienced.

    1. Charlottemousse*

      My sister-in-law was job searching while newly pregnant, and she was able to negotiate after interviewing at the offer stage a 3-month maternity leave that was partially paid despite not technically qualifying for it during her first year at the place of employment. If you’re not pregnant yet by the time you find employment, it’ll be up to you and your employer to negotiate something, especially if you (/employer) don’t qualify for FMLA. Knowing what I know about the time it can take to conceive (long or short), I would try not to worry too much about this until you actually get pregnant…good luck!!!! And if it makes you feel better and you’re able to, do try to save up money as a cushion in case you end up with unpaid leave.

    2. 30ish*

      I think the best thing you can do is to conduct your job search as if a possible pregnancy were not a factor. It took me a year to get pregnant and I only started viewing things like this after maybe 6 months of trying, but it definitely helped me keep my sanity. If you do get pregnant shortly before or after you start a new job, hopefully you can still negotiate something with your employer. It’s just not under your control – the employer could have a bad response, or it could pose no problem at all. I haven’t been in this exact situation but I am soon going to interview for a job at almost 8 months pregnant. It’s different here because there is paid maternity leave and I would start the new job after that, but I hope it won’t be a huge factor in their decision-making.

  117. AcademicBean*

    I have a weird question. I’m about to defend my dissertation (yay) My advisor suggested that I send out my dissertation to the committee no more than 10 days before I defend, with the reasoning that the longer they have to look at it, the more they will want to change. One of the members of my committee wants to have a look at it earlier, this member is notorious for giving lots of feedback and I think it might be good for me as well. Should I ask my advisor before sending it to him?

    1. Anonadog*

      There’s no harm in asking your advisor for their opinion, even though the final decision is yours. They’re probably more familiar with this committee member than you are!

  118. Anonadog*

    And a second question regarding third-party recruiters versus applying directly: What are the pros and cons of applying for a position via a third-party staffing/search firm versus at the company directly? Sometimes the job ads are specific enough that I can tell what company is for. Should I apply through the staffing firm so the company knows my application has been ‘vetted’? Will that increase my chances of getting an interview or a higher salary?

    What have others experienced, both on the candidate and hiring sides?

  119. StartDateandSalary*

    I just had what I thought was a great first-round interview with an advocacy-based nonprofit. They asked me to email the HR person who set up my interview with my start date and preferred salary range. I’m not sure what to say.

    For start date: My current employer requires two weeks notice, and I’d ideally like to take a week off between jobs to decompress and shift gears. Would it be ok to day, “I can start three weeks from accepting an offer”?

    For salary: On their job posting, they said it was a salaried position of $50-75,000, commensurate with experience. I have two years experience in this particular type of work.

    It’s been drilled into me to say, “I’m negotiable on salary, my main concern is finding the right fit.” But would that be considered weaseling out? Should I say, “Because of my experience, I am looking for something in the $70,000 range?” given that they did give a range?

    1. CoffeeLover*

      Go ahead and say 3 weeks from offer. It’s a really normal response and they’ll understand. If there’s an issue they’ll let you know.

      For the salary, I think it would be a mistake to try and act coy at this point. They gave you a range up front, you had the interview to learn about the role, and now they need to know how much money you want to do that role. You have all the information you need to name a number.

      But… 50-75 is a pretty huge salary range for the same role. It would be nice to get some reasoning behind it. Like “you have a very broad salary range for this role, can you please provide some insight into why that is?” But I don’t love that really since it makes it seem like you don’t know your own value. Does anyone have thoughts on this?

      Anyway, if 70k feels right to you, then be upfront about it. Drop the question marks and uncertainty. “Due to my experience with x, y, z, I’m hoping to get 70k for this role.” They’ll probably come back with a lower number and then you meet in the middle.

      1. StartDateandSalary*

        Thank you! I was aiming t $70k because right now I make $60k. I figured if I aimed high, I would at least get something above what I make now.

    2. Lucette Kensack*

      Is there another round of interviews, or would the communication with HR be the last interaction before getting an offer? Both of your answers depend on what happens next.

      For start date, you can say essentially what you’ve proposed, but I’d finesse it a bit more: “A start date would depend on when we finalized an offer, but in general I anticipate needing three weeks to wrap things up with my current employer.”

      If there is another round of interviews coming, I’d say something like this about the salary: “I’m comfortable with the range that Hiring Manager shared with me, but my own salary requirements will depend on the benefits package and other details that I imagine we’ll discuss in a second interview.”

      If you feel like you must say a number, you’ll need to figure out what the right salary range is for you, which depends on the market in your region. In general, I suspect that two years of experience would put you closer to the bottom or middle of the range (rather than at $70k, close to the top of the range), unless they are underpaying in general and you can argue that other organizations would pay someone with two years of experience at that level.

      1. StartDateandSalary*

        Thank you so much for this! This was just the first round– I’ve already been asked to an in-person in two week, before I could email with start date and salary! That seems like a good sign.

        The only issue with that response is that the Hiring Manager didn’t share that with me, the range was just what was on the initial job ad. She just gave me job duty details and basic like, “what drew you to this position,” “what’s your experience with this very specialized task and software,” “tell me about a project you’ve done with this software,” stuff. Since she didn’t share benefits info I didn’t ask, lest I came across as less mission-focused and more money-focused (which is its own separate issue! I care about this nonprofit’s mission but I also care about eating and paying my rent. But if you don’t pretend you’re above paying your bills, in my experience, nonprofits tend not to ask you back for a second interview).

        I was aiming at $70k because right now I make $60k, which is the average salary for my job position in my field, and $50k is really, really underpaying for the kind of specialized work I do, especially in our city. I figured if I aimed high, I would at least get something above what I make now.

        1. blaise zamboni*

          Can you name your own range? “Based on my X and Y experience, I’m looking for 65-70k”? Or even 67-70k? Don’t undersell yourself, obviously, but IMO naming a range implies flexibility based on other benefits.

          Good luck to you!

  120. Blacklist*

    There is a large company in my city that I would really like to work for (or at least have the opportunity to work for!). I feel I am qualified and have applied for multiple roles with this company several times over the past year. Each time I have been rejected without being invited to interview, which is somewhat expected since I imagine they receive hundreds of applications.

    I noticed the response time for my applications has changed and I am wondering if I should be worried. When I first applied last spring, it took this company a few weeks to get back to me with a rejection. Since then I have applied to 3 other very similar positions, and the timing of my rejections has sped up considerably. Most recently I applied for an open position at approximately 6PM on a Friday evening. I received an automatic rejection at 12AM that same night. All rejections are automatic form e-mails sent by a no-reply HR e-mail address.

    This has me wondering if I have made it onto some kind of automatic rejection list – should I throw in the towel and stop applying? Was it inappropriate for me to apply to the same company 4 times over the past year? Just wondering if I should keep trying, or take this as a sign that I will never have a chance to interview for them.

    1. PMP*

      They are using a scanning software to pickup on keywords in your resume. You may need to begin tweaking your resume for specific positions, paying close attention to what they put in the job description and use their words. If the scanning software doesn’t pick up a close enough match, it kicks your application out and you get an automated reject email.

      1. Blacklist*

        Thank you! I have been updating my resume for each application and this last go around, I added all of the keywords they are looking for. I am wondering thought if I am uploading my resume in the wrong format though (I can’t remember if I uploaded a .Word or .PDF, I need to doublecheck).

  121. Nott the Brave*

    I’m getting a promotion! Over the next few months, I’ll be taking on a few large projects and will be promoted once 1-2 of them is complete. As part of my path towards promotion, my supervisor wants me to choose a few books to read to elevate my skills. What are your recommendations? I’m interested in both books about project management as well as managing other people. I already own Managing to Change the World.

  122. Ella Bee Bee*

    Does anyone have advice for writing someone a recommendation letter for grad school? Someone I supervise just asked me to write her one and I am happy to do it, but I’ve never written one before and I’m not really sure how to approach it, especially because the program she’s applying to isn’t really related to the work we currently do. What types of things should I try to include? Thanks!

    1. CoffeeLover*

      I say focus on her transferable skills and traits. Is there any time she went above and beyond? Is there a time she showed off her problem solving skills or her people skills or her positive attitude? Is she diligent and a self starter?

      Basically, why do you think she would be good in her future career path and what has she done to demonstrate those things to you?

    2. AnotherLibrarian*

      Ask her if she’s going to be TAing or GAing? It’s possible she’ll end up working during her studies, so you can think about what skills she has the would translate to teaching or other types of academic work. I would also be concrete. Lots of reference letters are overly vague, but if you can honestly say something concrete like, “I’ve supervised dozens of llama groomers and X is one of the best I’ve worked with. She improved her llama sections approval rate by 20% and was always a pleasure to work with.” It will go a long way.

  123. The Man, Becky Lynch*

    Someone who knows someone found out that one of our crew was actually fired from their last position. It was for not accepting accountability and it’s something they do frequently throughout the time they’ve been here. The good news is that the tidbit of information made us go “Ah..that makes so much sense. Yeah…they’re absolutely terrible at that.” but at the same time, I’m remembering when we interviewed and they totally acted like he was still working, yikes.

    Just a casual reminder to check references or at least remember that this world is very small in the end and things do come out. The winds blow the strangest information around.

    It’s also a real life story of how you can still get hired after being fired! So please anyone out there that’s struggling, remember that it’s not the end of the world, you are employable. They’re fine here, it’s an annoying trait in our world but it was a deal breaker in the previous one [which makes sense, given the differences in the positions/expectations].

  124. No Tribble At All*

    Friend’s work told her she wasn’t allowed to discuss bonuses with anyone — thanks to AAM we knew that was illegal! Thanks!!

  125. Cap. Marvel*

    My boss came back from almost 2 weeks of work travel so it feels like everyone has stopped by my desk to ask if she’s in or busy. The issue is that I can’t actually see her office from my desk, and I don’t have her calendar.
    If she leaves, I can’t see unless she walks right past me and even if she does I STILL may not notice because my desk is very open and I need to block out everything to concentrate on work. Right now I am transcribing a recording of a two hour long meeting (yay.) and that means wearing earphones or moving into the conference room.

    I don’t need advice; I just wish she had an assistant to help with her calendar so people would stop asking me. She doesn’t even tell me or the rest of our team where she is most of the time. But since I sit closest to her, everyone assumes I know even though I’ve told them before that I usually don’t.

    1. valentine*

      What if you say to everyone, “Only one way to find out?” and sweep your arm toward her office? How about a stoplight key and red means email or leave a note and you’ll get back to them when you’re free?

  126. irene adler*

    During an initial interview, why would an HR interviewer ask a candidate, “how is your job search going?”

    What are they trying to suss out?

    And, what’s a good response for this? I don’t want to tell them I’ve been looking for a new job for years. My usual response it to say it’s going well, thank you. Sometimes they follow up by inquiring about specifics -have you been looking for a long time?

    Now, I know that some like to know if I’m interviewing elsewhere and where I stand with those interviews. But this doesn’t feel like that.

    Thank you.

    1. Morningstar*

      One thing would be whether they need to have a sense of urgency in hiring you — if you have another offer or are in a late stage of another hiring process

    2. WellRed*

      I…wouldn’t actually read anything into this. Sounds along the lines of “How are you today?” Conversational filler or a warm up question. I ask the same of potential roommates.

    3. Stormy Weather*

      I’ve never heard, “Have you been looking for a long time?” If I was asked that, I’d say something like, “I’m not just looking for any job, I’m looking for the right job.”

    4. AnotherLibrarian*

      I think this is just conversational filler. I think it’s like asking, “How is your day going?” I wouldn’t read much into it. They might want to know if they need to move fast with you, but I suspect it is more of a fill in the blank space in a convo kinda question.

  127. T. Boone Pickens*

    I don’t think it’s anything nefarious. It’s a combo of a small talk opener plus gauging if you’re interviewing quite a bit. I know that when I talk to candidates I also almost always lead with asking about the job search. If the candidate responds that they are interviewing a ton I’ll dig deeper on how far in the process they are with their other interviews to help me gauge how quickly I need to move if the candidate is a good fit for my opening.

    In your case it may be trying to suss out if you’re getting a lot of response and interviewing a lot but haven’t found a job yet they will try and pry and see why. Things like is there a salary mismatch? Are you under/over qualified? Are you interviewing poorly?

      1. irene adler*

        NO worries! I thank you for responding.
        If I tell them, I’ve been selectively applying to jobs, does that send up a red flag for them?

        1. T. Boone Pickens*

          That personally wouldn’t be a red flag for me as I’m assuming you’re only applying for jobs that appear to be a good fit for you both on a personal and professional level.

          It’s how you tell your ‘story’. If I heard, “Oh, I’ve been looking for a new job for a few years now and I’ve been applying here and there.” I might think that you’re maybe just bored and looking for something to do and that you might not be very committed. If you said, “I’ve been looking for a new job for a few years now and am really focusing on positions that fall within x, y and z because I feel that would fit my strengths the best” that would tell me that you’ve given your job search a good amount of thought and you seem to know really know what you’re looking for.

          1. Lily Rowan*

            I’ve also had a good response to, “Oh, I’m not doing much of an active search — just keeping my eyes open” because it indicates you aren’t desperate to leave your current job (even if that’s not true) and lets you start talking about why this job seems like such an amazing fit for you.

  128. MsChanandlerBong*

    I’ve been waiting for this thread all week! I find myself very annoyed with an employee; part of me feels like I am being unreasonable, and the other part is just mired in annoyance. This person is very helpful, but sometimes it is just TOO much.
    “Do you need me to do anything?”
    “Please do X and Y.”
    “I can also do A, B, C, and D.”
    “No, doing X and Y would be a big help. Please focus on those.”
    “Are you sure? It really won’t be any problem to do A, B, C, X, Y, and maybe D, E, and F, too.”
    Me (to myself): God almighty, will you please just do what I asked instead of asking me 40 questions?!
    Me out loud: I’m sure.

    We give her regular feedback to reassure her, and we’ve come right out and said she doesn’t need to try to take on a million things to impress us or make her think she’s working hard. We know she works hard and does good work, and we’re happy with that. I just want to be able to ask her to do two or three things and have her say “Okay!” instead of having to have a five-minute conversation on Slack about how I don’t need her to do anything other than what I’ve assigned.

    1. CoffeeLover*

      Maybe you can dig into why she wants to take those on. Does she have a lot of free time and is bored? Does she want to learn certain skills and feels those tasks could help her do that? Maybe it is just a workaholic mindset, but it might be interesting to explore other possibilities. Maybe you can get her off your back by giving her some challenging work/side project.

      1. MsChanandlerBong*

        Yes! We are absolutely swamped with work. I wonder if maybe she wants/needs overtime and is trying to take on enough to justify staying late?

    3. AnotherLibrarian*

      I think CoffeeLover and WellRed have both ID’d things you might want to consider. Also, is she asking, because she’s trying to sort out what exactly you mean by X and Y. I worked for a manager once who would ask for parts of a project, but not the entire project. I found that I needed to learn what parts they wanted exactly, because llama toenail trimming was not always easy to separate from llama foot washing.

    4. Close Bracket*

      I just want to be able to ask her to do two or three things and have her say “Okay!” instead of having to have a five-minute conversation on Slack about how I don’t need her to do anything other than what I’ve assigned.

      Have you said this to her? Not in so many words, but have you had a conversation where you flat out ask her to change her behavior?

      1. valentine*

        Have you said this to her?
        This is the next piece. “When I ask you to do things, I need you to do them and not suggest additions.”

        But does she work super fast? You can also ask her why she suggests taking on other things. Maybe she would like to have a long list to get through and to reduce the times she has to ask.

  129. Ferrit44*

    Any thoughts or advice on essay questions on job applications? I’m applying to mid-level city planning type jobs, and many of them require responding to essay questions relevant to the job (“our city has an issue with x, tell us how you would respond” or “please describe your knowledge and experience on x and y, with special attention to where you learned to z”). I don’t remember seeing these five years ago, and was wondering if it’s worth the effort during the initial application process?

    1. San Juan Worm*

      When I’m hiring, I review application materials in this order: 1. Answers to supplemental questions 2. Cover letter (if provided) 3. Resume (if provided) 4. Application. As a potential employer, I see these questions as an opportunity for candidates to demonstrate their interest in the position, relevant expertise and critical thinking skills. I score answers to each question on completeness, relevance and basic written communication skills.

  130. CoffeeLover*

    Office politics – how do you cope when it doesn’t come natural?

    I have a hard time dealing with how ridiculous it feels sometimes and generally navigating the minefield. Especially when it comes who you tell what to. Like when you have to go down the chain of command to inform everyone in the right order. Or when you have to involve absolutely every senior person even though half aren’t really affected and have no opinion to offer. Or when you have to keep people in the loop even though they aren’t interested, but would be upset if they weren’t included.

    Is this a popularity contest or is this work? I always feel like I’m trying to protect people’s sensitive egos or something… and honestly half the time it slips my mind because I don’t function as a human in this way. Then it hits me that I probably messed up.

    Any advice? How do you approach this thorny element of office work? How can I reframe this in my mind? And also stop beating myself up when I know I messed up?

    1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      You reframe it by making it “their problem” and you’re just “playing along” for the sake of their fragility. And then you escape that toxic wastedump of an office. You can dodge your own feelings about the situation for so long, it’ll pile up inside and you’ll just slowly and surely hate the place more and more.

      1. CoffeeLover*

        Be still my heart – do such places exist? I’ve only ever worked at big companies and this stuff is always at play to a lesser or larger extent.

        1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

          Oh sweet baby llamas, yes they do exist.

          But to be fair, I work in small companies and we don’t have the luxury of being that petty and weirdly inside ourselves.

          Also I’m in for profit and a blue collar industry, so really, we’re busy doing stuff and making the money and not feeling our own self importance.

  131. Anon Woman with Breast Cancer*

    I need some ‘interviewing with cancer’ advice please.

    I have an interview in a couple of weeks. I do not know if I will take the role, but I want to interview for practice. I need some confidence building since I have been battling cancer and as you all know, am nearly done with chemo…and today is my official last day at my current role. I applied for this new gig in January to work on my resume and cover letter skills, so an interview is good results!

    Is it bad to go to the interview feeling very much torn as I may not even want to stay in this town longer than autumn (but honestly I cannot predict anything further than May when I will be healed from surgery and I hope thru radiotherapy)? I plan to wear my wig, tho I do have ‘almost Sinead O’Connor’ hair!

    Thanks for any advice you may have. I will search the archives here as well.

    1. irene adler*

      My personal rule is to never turn down an interview.
      I need all the practice I can get (but that’s just me).
      And, I always learn something of use after it’s done. Something that helps with the next interview.
      And, the interviewers (if they are somewhat self-aware) also learn something that helps with their subsequent interviews.
      So it’s not a waste for either side.

      It is absolutely OKAY to interview when you feel torn about whether to even stick around awhile for this job. It’s their job to “sell” you on the merits of the position. Let’s see how well they do this.

      1. Anon Woman with Breast Cancer*

        Thank you for these comments. I agree too – on never turning down interviews. I need practice too! :)

  132. This is NOT the Good Place*

    Throwaway name here.

    I’m a teapot designer in a technical field. My supervisor switched recently from Janet to Michael. Janet and I got along swimmingly, but Janet wanted to take a step back. Michael had worked adjacent to this position, but never quite in this position, so it’s very much drinking from a fire hose I imagine. In the handful of months since Michael has been my supervisor, I’ve not gotten any design assignments. My work is such that I cannot create it from scratch. Michael has to decide the direction of the product. Instead, I’ve either been twiddling my thumbs or doing manufacture QA work.

    An important note. My job title and description have zero mention of manufacture QA. There’s not even a throwaway “other duties as assigned”. I legit am only supposed to be a teapot creator/designer. However, as we were rolling out a massive overhaul of a line of teapot product, what went from me doing little checks that the teapot makers had implemented things correctly turned into my entering all kinds of bugs and finding all kinds of things of wrong with the teapots and cups. I fell into it by accident. And now I’m being told that QA is 90% of my job. When…it’s really not supposed to be.

    Which leads to me going from being under Michael to now having Tehani as my supervisor, who is the actual QA manufacturing manager, not the product owner as before with Michael and Janet (before her reduced role). Tehani has already said she’ll give me non-design related tasks to QA (does the tea pour out of the spout?), whereas before I was just checking the aesthetic items (yes, the teapot is the correct shade of blue).

    I’m feeling like this needs to be better documented in a job description revision with a possible title change as well (and uhhh maybe a compensation change?), but am I offbase? I was thinking of starting this conversation with HR given the oddity of players involved. Tehani is under the impression that I’ll still actually be designing, but I’m not that …naive? idealistic? I’ve not designed anything in a minimum of 4 months at this point, so I doubt it starts now.

    1. Turtlewings*

      I think it’s definitely time to start pushing back and politely pointing out this is NOT the job you were hired for and NOT the job you want to do. Even if you actually don’t mind doing it, it definitely needs to be documented and compensated accordingly. And if you want to continue doing design instead of QA, you may need to start looking elsewhere — it sounds like they simply don’t need you for design anymore, whatever they might say to keep you happy. Remember that promises are nothing but air until they’re backed up by action.

    2. CoffeeLover*

      Isn’t the bigger question whether you want to be doing this new role? Are you happy to transition from a designer to a tester? That’s a pretty significant change in career with no sign of going back to what it was. If you’re not happy with this turn of events, then you should look for a new job. If you’re happy with the change, then I do think you can make a case for changing roles officially and getting a salary bump if the new role typically pays more than the old one.

      You could say something like “I’m really enjoying this work and in the last 4months it’s taken up about 90% of my time. Is there a way we can make this my official role?” If the answer is no, then you can ask what you can do to make it official.

      One thing that could be at play here though is budgets. Maybe they don’t have the budget to bring on a new tester but they do have one for the existing designer. This can create some weirdness.

  133. Small Biz Escapee*

    How soon would you file a complaint or contact an attorney about not being paid an incentive you were promised/was written in your employment contract?

    I resigned from a position in January and got my last paycheck 1/24. It did not contain an incentive for sales I brought in the previous quarter. Historically, it took a lot of nagging when I was employed there to get that bonus, so it’s not that surprising that I did not get paid yet. However, since I am no longer an employee, I really don’t want to have to send repeated emails to my ex-boss (who I can’t stand) asking for this check. He is notorious for not paying people (reimbursements, last paychecks which are mailed and not direct-deposited) and I know that he does need multiple reminders.

    Should I file a complaint now? Wait another few weeks or months?

    1. T. Boone Pickens*

      I think you’re going to have to fight like heck do get this bonus. It sounds like your boss is a notorious slow payer and he might take the stance that you quit before the numbers were finalized or some other nebulous reason. You may need to explore what it’s worth to you financially and emotionally to get this bonus and if it’s even worth it.

    2. blink14*

      In my state, the Attorney General can review complaints related to pay and either validate your case and give you permission to take it small claims or take it up on your behalf. I did this after leaving my last job – I discovered during my 2 weeks notice period that I was never notified of the vacation time increase after X amount of years. Vacation time payout is mandatory in my state. I also had suspicions for awhile that the company was not following state law regarding overtime requests and pay for the maintenance staff. I reported all of this, and they did review it and said I had a case in small claims for my own vacation shortage. I decided not to pursue it, not worth the cost, but it was good to get that validation!

    3. AndersonDarling*

      You should attempt a good faith effort of receiving the bonus. I’d contact payroll directly and give them the amount you are expecting. If you don’t receive a response contact them one more time and state that you will need to contact an attorney if they do not respond. Hopefully, that will get the ball rolling. Payroll doesn’t care about the amount or your boss, they just want to keep the books clean and get people paid, so they will be the best ones to make it happen.

      1. Small Biz Escapee*

        Unfortunately, it’s a very small business and “payroll” is an email address that the boss & a part-time bookkeeper both get copied on. I can email that vs. him directly and see what happens, but she won’t cut checks without his authorization.

    4. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      The good thing is that it was written in your contract, so you have that to fall back on.

      In my experience with wage theft cases, which this would be considered [not paid in full], you have to ask him first. Then after that goes nowhere, there’s paperwork you send to the department of labor to dispute the amount you say is owed. Then they will assist you.

      Sadly even in a blue state, our DOL sucks and won’t do too much other than “try”, the paperwork basically says that’s all they can do. They also say if you contact a lawyer, then you’re stuck with that option. So I’d try the free way first at least.

      File it immediately because of his MO. Then you won’t waste too much time since it’s going to be a fight. Thankfully it’s in writing so you shouldn’t be SOL. If it’s a verbal thing, in the state I fought with the DOL in, they were like “Well it’s not in writing, so bye.”

  134. Me--about to just give the hell up*

    I didn’t get the job. I thought the interview went well, but nope. This is the third time I’ve talked to Fancy Workplace, the second time I’ve interviewed, and clearly they’re just not that into me.

    Back to the drawing board, and the Incredible Shrinking Job Listings. -_-

    1. CheeryO*

      Do you think you could reach out for feedback? Crossing my fingers that your luck turns around soon.

    2. MissGirl*

      They wouldn’t have interviewed you if they weren’t into you. Ask for feedback and move on to the next.

    3. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      Just because you didn’t get the job doesn’t mean it didn’t go well! You could have been fantastic but someone with a minute more of experience or education may have edged you out.

      I say this as someone who’s lost out to education and experience plenty in my life! I’d ask for feedback but of course many won’t give it to you. But that’s how I know it was “by the skin of their teeth” the other person got it

      Also once upon a time, someone beat me out by their education. Fine. I got a call a week later offering me the job because Mx. More Education was not working out [they refused to you know, learn the job and kept getting caught dicking around online instead of answering the GD phone!!!]. I stayed there for a very long time, they are still my dearest job to date and I’ve had a few since.

      1. Me--about to just give the hell up*

        I don’t need to hear “we hired someone more experienced than you,” or whatever happened. What I need to hear is “We want to make you an offer.”

        I know it’s mean to hope the person they hired is a jerkoff and bails on them, but I do hope that. I’m also not going to hold my breath. If the recruiter ever just randomly calls me, or this does happen and they call me back, I’m going to be very skeptical and ask a ton of questions. On the phone. They aren’t getting my ass back up there without good reason.

        1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

          Okay, then def don’t ask for feedback because that’s usually the kind of thing you’re going to hear, it wont’ be much help.

          I’m sorry you’re in this situation but once you’re that jaded, it’s hard to come back. I hope things get better.

          I always have that reaction though when someone passes on me, the whole “I hope whoever you picked failed” but I have a petty streak inside so I totally can’t say you’re wrong thinking that way!

          1. Me--about to just give the hell up*

            I know it’s petty and I shouldn’t be that way but going MLEH :P makes me feel a tiny bit better. As doe imagining them saying, “Oh dear…we’re hosed. We should have picked Me. Whatever shall we do?!”

    4. Small Biz Escapee*

      Hang in there! I didn’t get a Fancy job I applied for, also–but three months later, landed something that ultimately was better for me. If I had gotten the first job, I never would have known about this one, and it’s a better fit for me. Good luck–I bet there’s something great waiting for you.

      1. Me--about to just give the hell up*

        I’ve been looking for more than three years. No one will hire me now because they think I’m unhireable. Three staffing agencies as much as said that to me — two directly, and one that apparently disappeared, as they failed to return any of my check-in attempts.

    5. Lily Rowan*

      External hires above entry level have a really hard time getting into my Fancy Workplace, and it’s a huge bummer. I had a really good candidate I met with, and would have hired under different circumstances, but the internal candidate was just that much stronger, all things considered. I know HR put the candidate forward for a couple of other jobs, and the same thing happened to her again! Which must have been SUPER frustrating for the candidate.

      So maybe seek out less fancy workplaces? I don’t know if that’s helpful.

      1. Me--about to just give the hell up*

        I’ve been doing that for three years. I upheaved my entire life and moved; none of the entry-level places wanted me either because I’m overqualified. No one here wants me and now I’m homeless and probably going to run out of money again, that I can’t replenish because I already sold my only asset.

        NewCity has a shoot-y problem. Perhaps I’ll get lucky and get caught in the crossfire.

        1. Small Biz Escapee*

          I sure hope not, and I am so sorry to hear you’ve been going through this. What about being a contractor or consultant?

          1. Me--about to just give the hell up*

            Looking, but they all want skills / degrees I don’t have. I don’t have time to get a Master’s in Biology or Computer Science to edit reports (nor do I want one). I don’t have a secret clearance. I just signed up for a StackSkills copywriting course; it was on sale for $11 so why not. But yeah, not good enough.

        2. Similar JobHunt Experience*

          Wow, I can tell you are disheartened and feeling low but please do not ever think that about the crossfires! You are a person who has a lot to offer for the right role, its just not happening right now due to some things not in your control. I do want to kindly suggest seeking some help for your stressors, and if you are able to do food delivery for postmates/ubereats/grubhub, heck even the local pizza place it might be a way to earn some cash and show that yes you are in fact hireable. From there, maybe work on utilizing the tips Alison outlines in her book. I’m still waiting on my first paycheck from my new job, but I’d be happy to gift it to you because it helped me in my search.

        4. Sam I Am*

          Please make sure you sign up for any benefits to which you are entitled. It isn’t much in the states, and will vary by location, but you should make sure you get some assistance. If you are in despair, you have to get help. Good luck, you’re in my thoughts.

  135. Baby versus Probationary Period*

    I’m in my early/mid 30s and just finished a job interview with the govt. It has a mandatory (yes mandatory) 2 year probationary period. Assuming I wait that through, I’d be in my late 30s/early 40s by the time I try for kids.

    Has anyone successfully navigated being pregnant during a probationary period?

    My worst fear is getting the job, then getting laid of because pregnant. I mean, I know I could file an EEOC complaint but it is well known people in probationary periods can get let go easier. I’ve talked to others who recommend waiting out 1st 3 months to be FMLA eligible then trying for kids…..I know SO many friends who’re trying for the 1st kid and have had miscarriages or extended infertility (trying later bc we were all in graduate programs/trying to pay student loans off/making enough $ to sustain ourselves let alone other humans).

    1. Charlottemousse*

      I have not, but if you’re interested in having kids and feeling ready to try, I would recommend trying earlier than later. This is a very personal decision, but in my view, one can find another job at worst case scenario, but it can be hard to conceive and you may regret not trying now when you’re still in your 30’s…it’s a tough call though since you’re more aware of other context (job scarcity, financial situation, etc.).

    2. Stornry*

      In my workplace (county gov’t) it’s in our “rules” that if a probationary employee goes out on any leave of absence longer than 15 work days, the probationary period is extended for the same amount of time. so, we have no problem with approving leave for medical reasons whether you are new or not – especially if you do good work while you’re here (’cause if you aren’t, then you wouldn’t pass probation anyway). So, don’t let “probation” deter you.

    3. TheFacelessOldWomanWhoSecretlyLivesinYour House*

      Our probationary period clearly states employee may be let go for any reason or no reason. Which means they can simple send a letter stating “Your services are no longer needed.” State and county have this rule.

  136. Workjuice Murderino*

    My organization is about to change its attendance policy. While we have an “official” policy, in action, each department is setting its own rules. We changed HR and our new (awesome!) HR director is undertaking updating the policy, so that the whole place gets the same rules, and has asked for input from each team about what they’d like to see.

    The problem is that before here, no place I worked had a specific attendance policy. You were expected to be at work on time as defined by your position/department/shift and if there was a pattern of not doing that, it was addressed like any other performance issue would be. I mean, that is a policy, but where I am now, there has been a whole point system around it.

    So could you please share what your organizations do around attendance? Is it different for exempt versus non-exempt?

    1. LunaMei*

      I work at a big state university, and we have an attendance policy in the employee handbook, but I’ve never read it. We operate like your company does – each department just handles it on their own, depending on the nature of the job. I know they are a lot more strict about non-exempt roles, because we don’t have the budget for a lot of overtime. Non-exempt folks usually need to be exactly on time and are not allowed to work overtime, unless authorized. They are also sticklers about taking breaks.

      For exempt roles, they typically just want us to work a standard 40 hours each week with a regular schedule. We can deviate as necessary, for appointments or whatever, but we need to be predictable, and keep our boss informed of any changes. The idea is just that people need to know they can reach us during our normal business hours (which ranges from 6am-6pm, however we set it), and if we deviate from that, we keep people informed.

      For everyone who is full-time, we have a very generous PTO policy, but typically we have to get everything approved a few weeks before we take time off. Except for unexpected illness, of course. I think part-time gets some PTO as well but not sure how it works – they get some benefits like PTO and health insurance, though not at the same level as full-time.

      1. Workjuice Murderino*

        This is really helpful! I think part of the reason it’s tricky here is that my department is one of the few that have both salaried and hourly employees. Almost every other department is one or the other, mostly salaried. So trying to find a cohesive policy is a delicate balance, or at least that’s the perception.

    2. AnotherLibrarian*

      We have an attendance policy. We’re required to evaluate non-exempt staff on their adherence to the policy. It’s absurd. Everyone thinks its absurd. But there you are. It’s just a hoop. People jump through it.

      1. Workjuice Murderino*

        Would you be willing to share what that policy is for your non-exempt staff?

    3. Mad Harry Crewe*

      I worked at a call center, and the non-exempt employees were on a sort-of-point system.
      Grace period up to 8 minutes after start of shift (although if someone was abusing it, we’d talk to them, it was supposed to be an occasional thing)
      Timecard issues (missed timecard punch, missed break/lunch per state requirements) = 1/4 of an Event
      Late (9 minutes late or more) = 1/2 of an Event
      Call out (not using sick pay, or out of sick pay) = 1 Event – consecutive days counted for just 1
      4 Events in a year = verbal warning
      6 Events in a year = written warning
      8 Events in a year = termination

      Supervisors had discretion to not count something – we generally forgave late arrival due to weather, major crashes or public transit outages, or certain kinds of personal emergencies.

      Everything fell off after a year, so if someone was racking up mostly tardies or timecard dings at a slow but steady rate, they could hover just below the warning cutoff for a long time. We were fine with that.

      It was pretty forgiving and the work truly was coverage-based, so we needed people there on time. Exempt employees were not held to any kind of attendance policy, although some of us were also coverage-based and I’m sure my manager would have had Words if someone was really flaky about showing up.

      1. Workjuice Murderino*

        I love the detail of this! It’s a more generous version of what we were doing, so this might be a workable compromise. Thank you!

  137. Miss M*

    I mentioned last week I’m finally quitting and I wasn’t sure how to deal with snarky comments from coworkers. Thanks for the advice! Unfortunatley, I’m not sure how/if to deal with this one situation.

    I came back from a travel trip for work to my office mildly trashed and “pranked” aka covered with sticky notes, some of which had some mean language. The person who fessed up to doing it was a coworker who has openly not liked me, for a mix of reasons: “You make more than me but I’m senior to you.” “You’re too nice.” “You’re XYZ.” This coworker doesn’t really like many people.

    I am black. I am one of two POC in the office. This coworker has made racist remarks to me but I just brushed them off because I don’t feel supported and safe in this office to do anything.

    One sticky note left by her was on a piece of equipment. It said “Property of our company. Don’t even think about taking it with you.”

    I get that she’s mad that I’m leaving after 18 months but this shocked me. The implication is felt even if she may not have actively wanted to imply that. She didn’t do this to our other white coworker who left a few weeks ago.

    Because I am about to leave and have nothing to lose, I want to say “I’m not sure what you’re implying here. But I don’t like it. I’m meeting with HR for my exit anyways and perhaps I will bring this up.” to her. She had asked me not to take her to HR previously.

    I sent it to my family (the picture of the note) and they are angry as well. Am I overreacting?

    1. LunaMei*

      I don’t think you are, considering her history of openly disparaging you. I’m not sure I would even say anything to her – but then I tend to be non-confrontational. However I don’t think you owe her a heads up about mentioning that during the exit interview. If you are comfortable describing all those things to HR, I would. For that one coworker, I would probably just keep interaction to a minimum, but that’s me.

      Good luck at your new position!

    2. MissGirl*

      Go straight to HR. Bring up the racist stuff said to prior. Don’t engage with the coworker; she’ll just make excuses.

    3. WellRed*

      I think you’ve been more than patient with this BS and you have nothing to lose by bringing it up. You are leaving. You are in a better position to try and make a small (or big) difference, if you want to, for the next POC who comes along. And, this was no prank. You don’t have a friendly relationship so this can’t be taken as a joke.

      1. Hound Fan*

        You are nice! This is just wrong. I would take pictures of everything and document all that she has said. She has no right to ask for any favors from you. She needs to own up to her actions.

        Sending you good vibes for a nicer group of coworkers!

    6. Rusty Shackelford*

      I’d say you were overreacting if you had a friendly, jokey relationship with this person. But no, so no.

    7. Miss M*

      Thank you all. I spoke with another coworker (the other POC) and she also said she would be upset at this. She said this coworker likes pushing buttons but can go too far. We are not friendly. Or I will say I am relatively friendly but we are not friends. We are cordial to each other at times. Do I notify my boss first that I’m bringing this up in my exit with HR? (Which is in a few days.) I know she is very close to this coworker and in most cases, takes her side.

        1. Miss M*

          I just thought that was what you are supposed to do, notify your boss and then HR. I haven’t done this before so I imagined that’s how it works. But if I don’t have to, I won’t because it would most likely make things more miserable for my last week.

          1. LunaMei*

            Typically for a job that you are staying in, you would notify your boss first, and then go to HR if it wasn’t resolved – but you’re not staying in this job. Also, since your boss seems to favor your coworker, I would just go straight to HR anyway.

      2. Elizabeth West*

        It doesn’t seem like the boss would listen. I’d just describe it (including the past racist stuff) to HR on the way out the door. Maybe give them some of the worst post-it notes, if you have them.
        I’m glad you’re getting away from that gross person.

    8. AnotherLibrarian*

      You are not over reacting. This is not okay. Ever. I would wait to bring it up with HR without mentioning your boss, if you don’t think your boss would handle it well. No reason to make your last few days miserable. I am so sorry this happened.

      1. Miss M*

        I appreciate the validation, and I think that is what I’m going to do (about the boss.) If me talking to HR about this ruins my relationship with my boss. Well. Oh well. I think I’ve gotten over not getting a reference from here if I “whistleblow” what’s been happening in the office.

  138. Master Bean Counter*

    Thinking about calling in sick on Monday. Former co-irker is getting married this weekend. Dude did nothing but make my job harder while he was here. Took credit for my work even. He left and now I have his position. I played nice at the farewell party, figuring I’d never have to deal with the dude for more than a few minutes at any one time in the future.
    He invited me to his wedding. Most of the office is going and staying overnight in the hotel. Another reason I have no interest in attending. I know all of the wedding talk will likely die down by Tuesday. I’ve already been asked about 1,000 times about going to the wedding.
    So hiding until Tuesday, good plan?

    1. LunaMei*

      Yeah, I think I’d do the same thing. I don’t think I’d have the energy to field a million “Wish you were therrrrreee/it was sooooo fuuuun/why didn’t you cooommmmeeee” comments, which is what I’m assuming will happen.

      Take a day for yourself!

    2. Annie Nymous*

      See, I’d take another day (maybe Wednesday or Thursday) out “sick” rather than your first day assuming the new position. Won’t get you out of the small talk but there is less of a straight line between the wedding and your day off.

  139. ConfusedSoonNewGrad*

    I am graduating in June and looking for my first post-university job. I went to a job fair this week and applied for a position. This position is “rotational”, so from what I understand, one year I’d work with one team on one product, then I would switch teams and products thebext year.

    Last night I received an email from a recruiter about the rotational position, asking to set up a screener interview. This morning I received a second email from a second recruiter, asking to set up a screener – however, this email seemed to be about a more specific position in reference to the rotational one (so one of the divisions I might be worki g with, as part of the rotational program).

    Which recruiter do I reply to?? Do I reply to both and reference the other so that they can smooth things out on their end?

    1. Stormy Weather*

      You need to talk to both recruiters and let them know that you’ve already applied for a position at the company directly. Companies will typically not look at your resume from a recruiter if they already have your application.

      1. Not a Real Giraffe*

        I read this as the recruiters being internal, as in, employees of the company CSNG is applying to.

        In which case, I think you can respond to both of them, but let them know you are also communicating with OtherRecruiter about OtherPosition, in case they need to do anything on their end, internally. I don’t see any reason why you can’t continue to consider both positions; it’s in your best interest to figure out which position is a better fit for you.

        But this only applies if both recruiters are part of that company’s internal hiring team.

        1. ConfusedSoonNewGrad*

          Yes, they are both internal recruiters. What did confuse me was that I applied for just one position (the rotational one) and it seems that the recruiter for the more specific role, is a specific role within the rotational program. I’ll let both of them know what’s going and if I need to do anything else/if this is correct.

    2. Nicki Name*

      Are these recruiters contacting you from the same recruiting company (or both from the hiring company)? If not, you can’t ask them to “smooth things out on their end”– they’re competitors!

      If they’re both from the hiring company, then it’s worth asking if you should just go through one person or not. The company may have different people handling different classes of jobs, or the second recruiter may just not have known you were already talking to someone else.

  140. copier queen*

    Calling K-12 Educators!
    What makes a job fair useful/helpful/worth your time?
    I’m helping to plan a job fair for our school district (100 schools) and we’re hoping to attract current teachers and new grads from our local area and up to 3-4 hours away.
    Would having the event from mid-day to evening on a weekday be a workable time frame?
    One booth for each school, with an administrator present at each booth?
    An HR booth with info about benefits?
    Booths with info about relocating to our area?
    Maybe a kids’ zone for keeping kids busy while parents look into possible job opps with our district?
    What else?

    1. CL Cox*

      Candy. I’m not kidding, every year the AP who’s manning our booth takes little candies (like Hershey’s minis or starburst – I have no idea why but all the teachers here LOVE starbursts). There are no leftovers. Also, if you can get some kind of inexpensive item to personalize and hand out, it’s also popular and helps the candidates remember your school’s name. Think pens, carabiners, keychains, etc. I mean, obviously, if your school has the funds, you can do more expensive things like water bottles or something.

      This year, I suspect little bottles of hand sanitizer will be VERY popular – you could even buy them through Amazon and make your own labels to slap on them.

    2. Teach*

      I would want to know:
      -Instructional philosophy
      -Curriculum models or programs
      -Professional development opportunities
      -Any chances for leadership or advancement
      -Examples of student activities/work/family engagement
      -Classroom management/discipline models
      -Social media hashtags to follow (in my district, we have a district one and each building creates one, so following them can really show you building culture)
      -What Ts like about working there.

      1. copier queen*

        Teach, you rock! I’m coming from a communication background so this kind of thing is exactly what I needed to know. We will have lead teachers on hand to address these areas. Thank you!

  141. Uncomfortable Atheist*

    Our company is for profit and we serve both education and faith based clients. Others too, but our core business is faith and education. We’re moving locations and they’ve announced the new meeting room names. They split them between faith and education names. The education names are rooms you would see in a school (i.e. Gymnasium). The faith names are actual names of buildings or rooms in buildings of Christian faith only.

    We’ve had previous comments in our Department All Hands meetings about inclusivity around Christmas and the Holiday party. So there’s already tension around this in the company.

    I was the one who was who was responsible for bringing those Department All Hands questions to HR. So when this happened I reached out to HR and said, “In light of those other comments, don’t you think this would look not inclusive?”

    They do not see it as a problem. I said they were incorrect about that.

    How do I make this case to our HR department?

    1. Nacho*

      Change your wording from “don’t you think this would look not inclusive” to “I’ve heard talk from people who feed excluded by these names.” You don’t need to give names, but they should know if people on your team are unhappy about this, since that carries more weight than a simple hypothetical.

      1. CL Cox*

        And not just people on the team. Customers of faiths other than Christianity are gonna be pissed if they see a list of conference room names and realize the naming scheme is so exclusive.

  142. Anonymous #94*

    I work in civil service. I took a promotional exam and passed it big time with a 97 score and a 2 ranking (that means I’m #2 on the list). So now
    the canvas letters are coming in, and it looks like I’m going to go on some interviews.

    Here’s the thing. I haven’t gone on any job interviews for years and years and years, because of Reasons. But the time has come for me to take advantage of my high score and rating.

    So I guess I need some up-to-date interview and resume advice.

    I’m wondering how to deal on my resume as far as my time in the courts, because I’ve been transferred to different departments over the years. Currently my format is like this:

    1997-present – State Court System
    2018-present – Courtroom Back Office
    * Task #1
    * Task #2
    2016-2018 – Chief Clerk’s Office
    * Task #1
    2004-2016 – Summons Department
    * Task #1
    * Task #2
    * Task #3

    Should I change it to something like this?

    1997-present – State Court System
    2018-present – Courtroom Back Office
    2016-2018 – Chief Clerk’s Office
    2004-2016 – Summons and Fine Unit
    * Task #1
    * Task #2
    * Task #3
    * Task #4
    * Task #5
    * Task #6

    I know there’s lots of information here at Ask A Manager. But I don’t know how much of the advice applies to my circumstances: a) as mentioned at the beginning of this post, I’m in civil service (I’ve been working for the state court system for over 20 years), and b) this is for a clerical/support position – the actual title is Clerical Assistant. (All of my experience here has been in a clerical/support capacity – “Clerical Assistant” is a step up in both title and pay grade.)

    Thoughts and advice will be most appreciated. Thanks!

    1. CL Cox*

      I think it depends on if the task is specific to that position of it’s something that you did at each position. If it’s specific to the job, then your first format probably makes the most sense. If it’s the same task at all of them, then your second format is good, because it means you’re not just repeating the same tasks for each job. And with clerical work, it’s probably a lot of the same work AFA preparing filings, scheduling, etc. But if there are any special projects you took on, definitely highlight those.

      1. Stormy Weather*

        I agree. It’s important to highlight your accomplishments (which come across better than tasks) when they are related to your current experience and the job you’re applying for.

        Good luck! That’s a fantastic score.

  143. Peaches*

    My coworker WILL NOT stop talking about coronavirus.

    I’m not insensitive to the level of concern people have for it, and know that the uncertainty of it can be worrisome. However, she has literally been talking about it The. Entire. Day. Her cubicle is right next to mine, and she has probably spent at least an hour total throughout the day spewing out stats that she’s read online, talking about how terrified she is that she or a family member will die from it, preventative measures, how it’s way worse than the flu, etc. She keeps repeating the same things over and over and over. I don’t know what to tell her. I’m not super busy today, but I’m still tired of hearing her talk about it. Should I just let it go? For what it’s worth, there aren’t any reported cases even close to where we live. Again, I understand that coronavirus is very much a thing happening and that it could potentially spread quickly, but I think there’s a difference between being aware of something, and letting it completely consume your life, and letting that spill onto people around you.

    2. Kathenus*

      I’d focus on the distraction part of it not the topic. Just let her know that you need to concentrate on some work and could she please allow some quiet time so that you can do so. Nicely and politely, as if it were a more neutral topic.

    3. marina*

      You know what else can completely consume your life, and spill on to people around you? Coronavirus.

      Seriously though, she sounds terribly anxious (is that her nature usually?) and probably just looking for an outlet to vent. Unless she’s talking directly to you about it (in which case you can tell her you need to get on with your work) just let it go.

  144. AtALossOnLinkedIn*

    Can you email a recruiter that looked at your LinkedIn? I recently applied for a position I really want, and a couple days later I noticed a recruiter from that company looked at my LinkedIn profile. Since I know the email handle for the company and now know her name, would it be rude to email her directly? I was thinking I would just write a quick email noting that I saw she looked at my profile, so I wanted to reiterate my enthusiasm for the open position. But is that crossing a line? Have any recruiters encountered this before? Thank you in advance!

    1. we're basically gods*

      It sounds like probably a bad idea. They know you want the job, you applied for it!
      She was checking out your profile because you’re enthusiastic, and she wanted to look at your LinkedIn to see what’s up. I would definitely not email her. At this point, your desire for the job has been expressed to the company, and now it’s the company’s job to decide if your credentials and experience match what they want.

      1. AtALossOnLinkedIn*

        Hmm but have you considered that I’ll probably start my email with “I hope this isn’t too forward” …just kidding! Thank you for your response! I think you’re probably right, I’m just really excited about this position but I’ll hold off.

        1. The New Wanderer*

          I’m kind of surprised LinkedIn doesn’t have a thing where it prompts you to email any recruiters who view your profile. But that would be a clue that it might not be your best move. It’s great that they did check out your profile, but let it play out. Good luck!

  145. we're basically gods*

    Office woes: We do not have enough space.
    I work for a small startup, although we’re well-funded, so there is no concerns about money. There are, in total, six of us. We are in a single room office that’s maybe 100 square feet. When everyone is in here, not only is it relatively cramped, but it makes conversations a nightmare. I have my earbuds in and am desperately trying to drown out the two different conversations that are going on right now, because it’s making my brain hurt.
    We were supposed to move into a bigger office about two weeks ago, but for some reason, the boss has decided he doesn’t want to deal with it or how expensive the space would be. (We’re in a coworking space smack dab in the downtown area of one of the tech hub cities, so…yeah, it’s expensive! Nobody who works here actually lives *in* downtown, though, so there’s absolutely no reason we have to be in the most expensive part of town.) Again, we have funding to the tune of multiple millions; we could afford to move.
    I don’t know why he’s refusing, and I’m worried that when the company forms properly, I’ll wind up trapped working for this guy for the year-ish. I don’t plan to stay here longer than another 18 months in any case, because that’ll give me the magical two years of experience that make me eligible for entry level jobs. But for the time being, I’m a little annoyed by the refusal to move to a space that can actually fit all of us comfortably.
    Bonus: HE KEEPS COMPLAINING ABOUT PEOPLE GETTING TOO MUCH IN HIS SPACE AND THAT IT’S TOO CRAMPED. He’s the one who could fix this problem! Argh.
    Okay. Rant over, feeling better.

  146. Stormy Weather*

    I am now a month into a new job and I’m happy here. :)

    People are nice, the work is interesting, and nobody expected me to drink from a firehose. The person I work most closely with is taking great care that I understand how people and the culture work. The program I’ll be in charge of is a big culture change for the organization, so we’re stepping carefully.

    For a while, my anxiety had me waiting for the other shoe to drop. You know that feeling when things are good and you just know something bad will happen? Now I’m more focused on proving myself.

    1. LunaMei*

      That’s great! I had a few months of waiting for the shoe to drop when I started my current position, but it never did, and it’s been three years. :) My boss is true to his word, and knows how to properly manage his feelings…which is such a difference from my last boss. My last boss was totally hands-off until he dropped the ball on something, and then he would be super reactionary and get upset and micromanage us until his panic was over. I was just in constant stress working for him, basically waiting for the shoe to drop every day!

      Congrats on your job!

  147. Flaxseed*

    My boss will sometimes make comments that it’s “too quiet” in the office. We’re all working, so what exactly are we supposed to be talking about? Does he think silence means we’re not working? I just don’t understand environments where you’re supposed to talk the entire time- I wouldn’t get anything done!

    1. WellRed*

      AN office with people in that is silent often seems louder than an office with a hum of activity. Think about it: If you wanted to open a candy bar EVERYONE will hear the wrapper.

    2. Salty Caramel*

      “We are not dogs. We are not toddlers. If it’s quiet, we are not getting ourselves in trouble.”

      There’s also, “We’re plotting your demise,” but I don’t get the impression your boss has a sense of humor.

    3. we're basically gods*

      My grand-boss (sort of) apparently raised concerns with my actual manager about the fact that I’m very quiet when I work. My manager mentioned this to me in the context of telling me that it wasn’t a problem, because… we’re developers! I’m quiet because I’ve got my head down and I’m working!

    4. Zoey*

      Can you get a louder keyboard or type louder? (A lil bit of sarcasm). The clickety sound of typing is comforting for some.

  148. Great Beyond*

    I work with one other person, “Fergus.” Fergus does have seniority/is in a management position. There are times when I need his help completing something and he expresses that he doesn’t want to do it or gives me a hard time about it. The only thing that works is when I say, “Boss said to give X to you.” or “Boss told me to give this to you.”

    They’re simple tasks that are his responsibility, but It’s like pulling teeth!

    Besides finding a new job, does anyone have any advice? Do I have to mention the boss every time?

    1. Kathenus*

      Could there be a bigger picture plan where your boss sets out who is responsible for which types of tasks and projects, versus having this conversation for each individual one? If Fergus knows that he handles all grooming and training projects, it might be easier when they come up without re-litigating it each time.

      1. Great Beyond*

        Possibly, but he also loves to dump work onto me. The boss caught wind of this once or twice and made him stop, but that was a while back.

  149. Argh!*

    Update from last week’s drama with NewHire…
    (https://www.askamanager.org/2020/02/open-thread-february-21-22-2020.html#comment-2864497)

    On Monday my coworker and I met with NewHire’s attorney that he is supporting (this is a law firm) to let her know that NewHire has been problematic because of his attitude, his misunderstanding of our office’s structure and hierarchy (specifically that yes, my coworker and I are senior to him and we can and will assign him tasks), and his resistance to help me and my coworker with general office administration. The attorney said she’d need to defer to BigBoss, who travels 90% of the time and is generally unaware of what needs to happen to keep the office up and running. I then emailed BigBoss to ask him to set aside some time for me whenever he’s in the office next to discuss my position/progress.

    The next day I spoke with the attorney I support to let him know what’s going on and that I’m very frustrated. I’ve been covering for my coworker on unplanned medical leave for the past 3 months– no title change, no raise, no temporary bump, nothing but extra work while BigBoss plays dumb each time I tell him how overloaded I am. We needed NewHire to help us with the extra work and were explicit about that with BigBoss, but BigBoss apparently told him he’d be working exclusively with the attorney he’s assigned to, doing both admin and paralegal tasks (not what we brought him in to interview for) and neglected to mention the general office management tasks.

    Basically: I think BigBoss intentionally withheld information from me and my coworker so that he wouldn’t need to give us raises or title changes, knowing that this new structure being rolled out would be shortchanging us. He told NewHire the way he *really* intended for things to be without informing us, and now it’s all coming into focus and my coworker and I are steamed.

    On top of all this, the way he’s restructured our office workflow eliminates the job of the coworker who is on unplanned medical leave. She’s been working with BigBoss for 30 years. If he’s willing to do that, I have zero expectations that he would treat me fairly. I’ve applied to two new jobs this week. I’ll take my time to find something I’m actually excited about, but in my mind I’m already gone.

      1. Argh!*

        Thank you, I get so mired in the details and frustration and second-guessing myself when I’m arguing with attorneys… it’s nice to hear someone validate that this situation is insane.

  150. ampersand*

    I googled it in incognito mode–and the results I found are actually quite pretty (they resemble roses; it’s tasteful for what it is). You can’t tell they’re penises until you look closely; from afar you’d think flowers. I did look this up on my phone, and on a computer monitor they’d obviously be larger…but I can see how the initial design is attractive and if you’re not necessarily *looking* for penises you may miss that that’s what they are.

    And on a related note, that is one paragraph I never thought I would write!

    1. ampersand*

      Gah, meant to post this elsewhere!

      Alison, please feel free to delete this! As it makes zero sense as a stand alone comment.

    2. WellRed*

      And since this comment is a nesting fail, it’s hilarious without the context of the comment upthread. ; )

      1. Morning reader*

        Congratulations, we’ve found a way to make women (a few anyway) want to see dick pics. Didn’t think it could be done. The secret is flower camo.

  151. Do I need a hard hat for this?*

    A little bit of a rant here, and I’m sure many of you can relate. I called a coworker who’s out in the field to get a quick answer from them. If I emailed him he wouldn’t have seen it for hours, so I called instead. It went to voicemail, so I left them a message along the lines of, “Did you buy anything from So-and-So Builder Supply in December? We got an invoice from them, but I think it’s a mistake. It says we purchased items 1, 2, and 3. That’s not something we would typically purchase from them, so it seemed odd. You don’t have to call me back, you can just text me yes or no and I’ll take care of it.”

    10 minutes later the coworker calls me back and says, “What’s up?” So I replied, “Well, I guess you didn’t listen to my voicemail.” He snarkily said, “You know I never do. Do you want me to hang up and go listen to it or do you just want to tell me what’s going on?”

    WHAT THE HELL??? I don’t leave voicemails just to practice my speaking skills. If I can fit all the information into a text I’ll just do that, but there was enough information to relay that a phone call/voicemail would be more efficient. I didn’t even request a callback. Next time he calls me back and says something like that I very well may tell him to hang up, listen to the message, and then decide if he needs to call me back.

    What would you guys do? I don’t mean to make a mountain out a molehill, but this is part of a larger pattern of this person being rude and not communicating well. It’s been brought before that his communication skills are sub par.

    1. whistle*

      Ugh, I hate interactions like this. A couple of weeks ago I called a friend with an update on an important matter and left the details in her voicemail. Two hours later I got a text, “Sorry I missed your call. What’s up?” I just texted back “Left you a voicemail…”

      Anyway, yes, if he says that again, you are well within your rights to say, “Yeah, go ahead an listen to my voicemail. Thanks.” and then hang up.

    2. FormerFirstTimer*

      I hate it when people do that! Next time you should point out that he can save himself the hassle of actually having to stop what he’s doing and find somewhere to have a conversation if he just listened to his damn messages. Maybe leave the damn part out though.

      1. Chronic Overthinker*

        My spouse does this all the time. To the point where his voicemail is full. That’s why I actually prefer e-mail/text communication as you read and respond to multiple things without having to repeat yourself.

    3. But I'm too ANXIOUS to be courteous!!!*

      Ugh, I really have no advice…. just sharing that I experience similar things. We’ve gotten in a phase of civilization where people actually get pissed if they get a voice mail. It’s astounding to me. These people ignore texts, ignore emails, don’t answer their phones, then get pissed if someone leaves a voice mail. I actually lost a friendship with a person who would RAGE if I contacted him any other way than Google Chat. He would yell at me YOU KNOW I ONLY USE GOOGLE CHAT!!! So… if someone isn’t on Google Chat, then he just would have no interaction with them. People suck, pretty much…. my team thinks texting constantly (as in never putting the phone down for even a moment) during meetings is OK, and if you gently ask them to pay attention, they roll their eyes and sigh, and then you get the cold shoulder from that day forward. It’s pathetic…. you can’t ask for basic courtesy anymore without getting a lecture on how they are just SO ANXIOUS and you’re MAKING THEM ANXIOUS. I’m dealing with depression and anxiety myself, and seeing this casual usage of “I’m anxious” as an excuse to blow off basic courtesy really riles me…. people can’t even respond to a meeting request because it’s just SO HARD to respond because ANXIOUS. Ugh I think it’s time to look for a new job, but I feel like this is just how it is so moving somewhere else won’t change a thing…. it sucks. Just counting the years till I can retire.

    4. Rusty Shackelford*

      I posted about this recently… when my kid was in a school activity, there was a woman in charge of fundraising for the activity. So she would have been communicating with businesses about donations. I called her and left a short, precise message about some information I needed. She called back, seconds later, and said “I had a call from this number?” I wanted to point out that if that was her normal phone etiquette, potential donors were probably saying “too much work, never mind” rather than give the same information twice. :-P

      So, with this guy, when he calls and says “what’s up,” I’d say “gosh, I don’t remember; it’s probably in the voice mail I left you.” Or, maybe not, since you’re the one needing something from him. Since texting seems to be an option, maybe send him a text that says I just left a voicemail, please listen when you have a chance.

      1. valentine*

        you’re the one needing something from him.
        You did what was easiest for you:
        there was enough information to relay that a phone call/voicemail would be more efficient.
        He did what was easiest for him: Call you and expect you to repeat yourself. To be fair, someone who hasn’t listened doesn’t know your voicemail didn’t consist of “Call me back.”

        I’d stick to text or email with this guy. You could’ve gone with:
        Did you buy 1, 2, and 3 from So-and-So Builder Supply in December? We got an invoice from them, but I think it’s a mistake.

    5. Asenath*

      I probably wouldn’t think fast enough to do it – but I like the idea of “If you’d listened to my voicemail, you’d be calling with the answer, instead of wasting your time and mine by you asking me to repeat the question. But I suppose at this point it would waste even more time for you to find the voicemail again and listen to it, so my question was …..”.

      I’d probably never do it, just stew in annoyance.

    6. Amethyst*

      This reminds me of a phone call I once took.

      Quick background: 15+ years in retail, suffering retail burnout, resulting in current me unable to stand interacting with people 90% of the time, & that includes answering phones. I found a job where I wouldn’t ever have to interact with the public (medical billing office completely off-site from our parent company). The office’s phone number is given out automatically when the offices we do the billing for call to remind patients of appointments or any such miscellaneous calls doctors’ offices make daily.

      This position had me answer phones for a few hours on a designated day + expected me to pitch in when phones went nuts. (There were several others who also had this arrangement, so it didn’t fall solely to me.) I didn’t mind doing it, except one afternoon shortly before we closed, I got the lucky draw: A man called saying he’d received a phone call from this number & asked me to tell him what it was regarding.

      Me: I don’t know. We’re a large company & it could be any number of things. I need more information before I can send you to the right person/office.
      Man: Well, you left me a message but I didn’t listen to it…
      Me: Sir, I really can’t help you unless you listen to your message. I have no way of knowing who called whom.
      Man: But can’t you find out?
      Me: Sir, I have no idea who called you. I just answer phones. We make and receive thousands of calls every day. We have hundreds of thousands of patients, & a lot more employees. Listen to your message. They most likely left you a call back number. Call that.
      Man: But… [reduced to whining about how I should be psychic & magically know who called him & transfer him directly to that person]
      Me: I cannot help you. Listen to your message. The message will tell you who called you. That’s what a voice mail is. Is there anything else I can help you with?
      Man: …No.
      Me: Okay. Have a good afternoon. *end*

      Basically, next time he pulls out that snide response of “should I listen to my voicemail?”, tell the guy yes he should, & follow instructions contained within. Lol. If I have my cranky pants on, I’d also be telling him to quit calling me without listening to voicemails. But, again, this is me at “I Hate People” level.

    7. epi*

      Many people just call back rather than listen to voicemail on their cell phone, it gets discussed here a lot. Especially if they are in the field and assume the issue you called about was urgent.

      Your comment was actually quite snarky itself so I really don’t see where you think you have grounds to be offended. Once someone has called you back, your voicemail is moot, so don’t scold. There is really nothing to gain whether you agree with that decision or not. Neither leaving a voicemail nor explaining the issue you called about sound very difficult or time consuming, so why even comment on it to this person at all? He may have a rudeness issue, but you definitely do.

      1. blaise zamboni*

        What? No, if someone calls you back, your voicemail is not immediately moot. Sometimes people actually listen to their voicemail and that changes the course of the conversation drastically?

        If someone emails you, do you just walk over to that person and ask them to summarize what they just emailed you instead of reading it? That’s ridiculous.

    8. Sam I Am*

      I think this is generational in origin, and adopted by folks who are glad to not listen to voicemail. I don’t think it’s going anywhere, so know your user and send them an email next time, or just call their number and hang up once it goes to VM.
      I too, find it annoying, but this has been my adaptation to it.

  152. Butterfly Counter*

    I am a non-tenure track lecturer at a university. There’s been a few years of budget cuts and this year, my university was quick to volunteer letting go lecturers as the first stop (after letting go part-timers) to meeting these new lower budgets. So wonderful to know how little the university values my work! /s

    While my job is secure for another year, I’m sure these aren’t the last of the budget cuts. If it ever comes down to me losing my job, I’m not sure I’d want to continue teaching at the university level and instead would rather pivot to a new career. I have a Ph.D in a social science and no desire to go back to take any more classes ever. If it came to that, how would I even start to change what I do for work? I cover most of my passions with my volunteer work and hobbies and honestly I would just want a regular job with regular hours that paid comparable to what I make now.

    How would I even begin?

    1. LunaMei*

      I would start with making two lists: things you like doing and things you don’t. Don’t focus on job titles, or industries, or anything other than the specific actions. For example: I like analyzing business processes; I like making processes more efficient; I like writing documentation; I like talking to lots of different people; I don’t like data entry; I don’t like doing lots of math. Etc etc. From them, brainstorm a few jobs that fit your “likes” list. Talk to people about what they do, people who seem to have interesting jobs. Google job titles – even ones you make up yourself using whatever keywords you want. Google jobs that ask for a social science degree. This is to get a feel for what’s out there.

      Then I would start focusing on actual jobs that sound interesting to you, and working on a resume that tailors to those. You could then start applying to things yourself, or find a recruiter or get on LinkedIn. At this point, I would also pick out the industries you are interesting in working in (and those you want to avoid).

      I hope this helps! Good luck!

      1. Butterfly Counter*

        It is very helpful to a point.

        I think my issue is that I’ve been basically going to school for the last 23 years and aside from a few temping jobs (data entry), I don’t even really know what other kind of jobs do or titles they entail. And the people I meet day-to-day are students (with little job experience) or other life-long academics who have the same reference points with work that I do.

        I will probably take to Googling.

        But thank you!

    2. sugarplum*

      I also have a social science PhD and after my postdoc opted not to go back on the academic market. My postdoc was in a health system, not a university, and rather than look for a traditional TT role (or, let’s be honest, more likely some kind of VAP/adjunct purgatory), I took a different role within that organization. Without knowing exactly what your field is, it’s hard to recommend what kinds of jobs to look for, but myself and other acquaintances and colleagues with the same/similar backgrounds are now project/program managers (lots of translatable skills from managing research programs), internal consultants (likewise), work in institutional research (maintaining stats on a university, rather than a specific research area), user experience, data science/analysis (if your numbers game is strong). If you have a good award record, grant writer. If you are good with writing/lecture content and are reasonably tech-savvy, content developer.

      There are a LOT of resources out there right now for post-ac/alt-ac jobs, as more and more people realize that the uphill slog of academic channels is not for them. Have you checked out The Professor Is In? Google it up – they do both academic consulting (accountability for academic products like dissertations, manuscripts, merit packages, and for job searches/T&P) but also publish a lot and support getting out of the academy. You might search also for “post-ac [whatever your specialty is]” or “alt-ac [same]” to see if anybody out there has already expounded on something helpful. Versatile PhD is also a good resource, although I don’t think she updates as often as she used to, but the job listings are good and the local/user boards are also a nice sources of info.

    3. Ama*

      If nonprofit work interests you at all, nonprofits are full of PhDs who left academia for various reasons — some working in areas somewhat related to their studies, and some not. (I had a coworker for a while who was ABD in physics and worked in our fundraising department — we are not an org focused on physics). Maybe poke around on Idealist.org and see if any of the jobs listed there sound appealing to you.

      In my experience non-profits tend to be more flexible when it comes to hiring employees from backgrounds outside of their chosen focus area.

      1. Military Prof*

        A lot of professional academic societies are now providing guidance for PhD and MA holders in their fields who don’t want to go into academia. For example, I’m a historian–the American Historical Association provides a lot of resources for non-academic careers, because every year, the PhD-granting institutions produce more terminally-degreed individuals than the market can bear.
        You might consider spending some time on USAJOBS.gov. You might be surprised to discover that the federal government employs far more PhDs in the social sciences than any other employer. And, as an added bonus, the government tends to pay much better than almost any university employer, with much better benefits and job protection thrown in to boot.
        There are a ton of government jobs where social science PhDs are desired. For example, the CIA hires hundreds of them every year–that’s where most of their analysts come from, because by earning the PhD, you’ve demonstrated that you have the aptitude and skillset for what they do (even if you don’t know the first thing about collecting and analyzing intelligence.) The military employs thousands of PhDs, both in professional military education (what I do) and in an incredible variety of other programs. For example, the Defense Language Institute in Monterrey, CA, trains enormous numbers of personnel in language programs.
        You could also consider the State Department, as they have way more PhDs than you might think working as Foreign Service Officers. You would take the Foreign Service Exam as a preliminary part of going down that track, and then proceed through their system. Potential perks include living oversees as part of an embassy staff. My friends that have gone that route all swear that the best assignments are the ones away from the “most desirable locations,” meaning that if you’re at the embassy in Paris, you’ll have a tiny apartment, but if you’re at the embassy in Khartoum, you’ll have a huge residence.

    4. Fikly*

      My friend’s job is basically helping social science Ph.D’s find jobs that are not in academia/teaching. If you’d like to know more, let me know!

  153. Katrinka*

    I’ve realized that I need to leave this job. When I started here, I had a different boss and we got along great, we made a good team; It was their first year as in this type of position and my first year working for this type of company, so there was a lot of learning, but we had fun. But, after two years, the PTB moved him to a different location and transferred in someone who is an admitted micromanager. The problem is that there’s too much going on and balls are getting dropped and I’m getting blamed. She doesn’t remember approving things, so if it was verbal, I get yelled at for buying the thing when she didn’t approve it. Or she’ll give me a list of things to get for an event, then turn around and pick up some of the items herself. Or tell me to do a project and then decide she doesn’t want to do it after all. It’s chaos and, due to the nature of our business, it’s emotionally draining already. We had a lot of staff leave last year and we’re on track to lose just as many if not more this year.

    My question is, how do I explain leaving this job? I don’t usually have a problem with this, because when I’ve changed jobs it’s been because I was moving to a different area or there wasn’t room for advancement where I was. For those jobs I’m applying to in different industries, it’s easy enough to say, “I decided to return to this field/move to this field/whatever.” But some of them are in the same industry, at the same level or a higher level (think local v. state or federal clients). So I can’t say that I want to leave the industry. Sometimes the jobs are a step up and sometimes they’re at the same level.

    1. Stormy Weather*

      My sympathies for having to deal with the micromanager.

      There are lots of different ways you can spin your leaving without saying, “My manager drove me to distraction.” You’re looking for new challenges. X task in the job description sounded exciting. You’re looking for more opportunity for advancement. X thing about the company is appealing.

      Meanwhile, I think it would do you good to get as much in writing as you can with the micromanager. Best wishes on getting out of there soon.

  154. Happy Where I Am*

    I’m in my mid-forties and have been working for the same very large technology company for almost 20 years (okay, 13 years, after very large company bought the mid-sized company I’d been with for 7 years, but still). I’ve been in the same position now for fifteen years and I love my job! However, two things worry me: three years back I was promoted to the top rank of my individual contributor role, so there’s literally no career advancement path left in my current position; and second, every year my company lays off hundreds if not thousands of people with similar seniority and experience. This hasn’t happened in my particular slice of the business for a good long while, but given the nature of the tech industry, I know I can’t count on job security if and when things change.

    I’m not trying to borrow trouble, but my anxiety is that I’ll be abruptly out of work in ten years time, with a history of 25 years in the same IC role, with the last decade-plus at my current level. I’m afraid this would look like a lack of ambition to hiring managers, but I’m very not interested in moving into management, and I like what I’m doing so much that I don’t want to move into another department or role. How should I be managing my career now that I’m entrenched in a role I enjoy and have no intention of leaving?

    1. (Mr.) Cajun2core*

      Been there. Done that. Nearly literally. I was in IT for 20 years and in a tech support role for 11 years which I enjoyed very much. I specialized in a particular proprietary OS. When HP discontinued this OS I was laid off from my job. Ten years later, I am still working as a secretary making 1/3 of what I was making before.

      You need a plan “B”. Even if it is not management, learn a totally new skill. From what I hear computer security is an up and coming specialty with a very, very low unemployment rate (practically zero). You need to find something else that you enjoy doing and learn it. I wish I had learned Windows Server or Unix or some other specialty when I had the chance.

      1. Happy Where I Am*

        Oooh, yeah. Thank you for the perspective, and that’s great advice! My job isn’t totally niche (I have specific subject-matter expertise but my job is to develop various types of training materials) so if I’m lucky I think a lot of my skills might transfer to other jobs/industries. But that late-life career change paycut is going to hurt if it happens. And it probably will, tech being what it is. I’ll have to start thinking about what skills I want to beef up or learn, just in case. I think you hit it right on the nose — most of my anxiety is coming from not having a Plan B!

        1. (Mr.) Cajun2core*

          Good Luck with it all. I would try and broaden my writing skills. I think there are certifications and classes you can take for technical writing, documentation, editing, etc.

  155. Obv Anon today*

    Anon for salary identification…

    I got a raise and bonus this week. I got a high-end % raise, so I am overall very happy, and rather have a larger raise than bonus anytime.

    Our bonuses are not ever big. In the past two years, mine were 5k and 3k, but my raise percentages have also gone up each year. This year my raise takes me to over 150k and my bonus was 1.5k. I will never be unappreciative of money, but to me this is approaching a low level where maybe it is better not to do it. Kind of like the holiday card from your grandma with 5 bucks when you’re 30 years old. I’m wrestling with this because it is enough to do something with for sure. . .but it’s 1%. On the other hand, I might wonder why I got nothing, if I got nothing. Thoughts? I know other companies where bonuses are like 50% of their comp, but I don’t know others who do it this way.

    1. (Mr.) Cajun2core*

      I don’t know what industry you are in but getting 50% comp in a bonus is something I have never heard of. Granted a bonus of 1.5k is not great but it is better than nothing. The most I ever got was about 30% and that was an extraordinary year.

      1. Obv Anon today*

        What I meant was they get 50% of their comp as a bonus.

        If the market rate for the job would be $100,000 base, their base may be $50k, and their bonus could be $30-70k, for a total of 100k-120k.

        1. (Mr.) Cajun2core*

          I will be honest, I don’t understand what you are saying.

          I thought the person meant that they got 50% of their annual salary as a bonus. For example, if their annual salary was 100,000 the bonus would have been $50,000.

          1. Obv Anon today*

            5,000 did seem good. I am still happy with 1500, but I was wondering if perhaps I am just drinking the company kool-aid and people are getting 5-10% more regularly out there. (Irrelevant to my industry, but I had a friend who worked at Sprint in the heyday and would buy a new SUV cash with their bonus.)

            I definitely don’t count it as my income. Everyone doesn’t get one, and the factors are company, dept, and individual. I do like the chunk for a vacation or something, though. I was going to gift this to someone else, but it’s not quite enough this yr.(major life event gift)

      2. Obv Anon today*

        Sorry I am not explaining it well! What I mean is in a company with no bonuses, the job would be worth $100,000. So that company also pays $100,000 for the job, but they split it as 50 in your weekly salary and 50 at the end of the year. The second 50 isn’t guaranteed and could be more or less. Employees aren’t making 150 for a job that would pay 100 anywhere else, but they have more upside and downside potential.

        1. (Mr.) Cajun2core*

          Whoa, job that is “advertised” as $100,000 but you only get 1/2 of that per week and then you might or might not get the second 50 at the end of the year? I have not heard of such a thing. To me that is a $50,000 job with a $50,000 bonus.

    2. Who the eff is Alice*

      I’ve only worked in one company where we got (occasional) quarterly bonuses. I was making around $40K at the time and the bonus was always below $400.

    3. Sled Dog Mama*

      I’ve never worked somewhere that did bonuses until my current company (only been here 3 months so waiting to see how it works). My annual salary is pretty much in line with yours. To me a 5k bonus would seem like a good bonus. Are you counting on this money as part of your annual salary? To me that seems dangerous, a bonus shouldn’t be something you have to count on to maintain standard of living it should be an extra reward.

      I would ask management how the $ amount for bonuses are derived. Is it some sort of we have X available and allot it based on # of years here or some other metric, or does it have to do with how you contributed this year?
      It’s entirely possible that everyone at the company has gotten smaller bonuses because there’s been less money to go toward bonuses or the workforce is expanding or management is investing in something. There’s also the possibility that management has decided to phase out bonuses and failed to tell anyone.

      1. Sled Dog Mama*

        My kingdom for an edit button, “something you don’t have to count on to maintain standard of living”

    5. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      Since your bonuses are shrinking and shrinking, is your company possibly moving away from them in favor of higher compensation?

      Ours aren’t based on salary, it’s simply a percentage of profit that’s evenly distributed to everyone who isn’t an executive. But we’ve discussed removing bonuses and just giving people more money but everyone loves a big check here and there, we only do annually though, I know other places do quarterly and those quarterly checks are even a bigger deal for a lot of folks.

      It’s all about adjusting your POV in some way. Grandma’s give you $5 because they remember when that bought you a whole lot more than it does now. And also because they’re often not advancing at their ages, so their income is fixed. So is your company staying stable or dipping or are they soaring and just cheap?!

      1. Obv Anon today*

        Our bonus pool is set at the division and parceled out to each biz line based on performance, then the manager of that biz line divvies it up however he wants. So there could be a different amount to go around each year at teo levels (div/dept). Then the manager could decide to give some to everyone eligible, or at the other extreme he could give it to one person. He can pick the amounts. For all I know, our total pool was 1500 and I got it all (unlikely). It’s not handed out by percent, it’s just how I compare it yoy. I do know this was our 2nd best year ever as a division, so I don’t see this as a bad sign for the future.

  156. FormerFirstTimer*

    How common is it for HR to ask current employees for an updated resume? We just got a mass email asking everyone to update their resume and I find it really weird.

    1. GS*

      That’s common in some places–usually they’ll show it to clients or auditors. Basically, your resume is a marketing document that they’ll show to prospective clients to woo them.

    2. AndersonDarling*

      Or they may be updating the pay bands and need to know if employees have obtained new degrees or training that would impact their salaries.

    3. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      I would assume it would be so that they could properly assess everyone. Especially if they have a lot of internal transfers!

      It can help with review and auditing pay structure as noted.

      1. FormerFirstTimer*

        Thanks all! Keeping my finger crossed it’s so they can assess how much we should be paid.

    4. Ama*

      I wonder if it’s a roundabout way of assessing whether everyone’s job descriptions are accurate? We were asked to revisit our job descriptions over the summer because we’ve been doing a lot of shifting of responsibilities over the last few years (mine was hilariously out of date as I’ve been promoted twice and probably do about 10% of what is on my original one).

  157. Cog in the Machine*

    Rant/vent post: I got my new job, in my “for the foreseeable future” location. Yay! It comes with relocation from old location to new location. Yay! I was starting to get a bit worried when I hadn’t heard from the relocation people after two weeks, and was getting ready to call someone when they emailed me all the relocation documents. Yay! I filled out the documents and sent them back the same day. Fast forward two weeks, and I was getting ready to call the person in charge of all this because I hadn’t heard anything. Then, I get an email saying that the relocation case had been closed!
    I had, at that point, two cases open. One was from last year, and one from this year. I emailed the case person with a copy of the (autogenerated) email asking why case B had been closed instead of case A. There hasn’t been any answer, and I’m getting frustrated. Grr!

  158. GS*

    I work for a big tech company who’s stock is getting hit hard by the coronavirus. I also work on part of the business that supports our relatively stable revenue generation. I’m a W2 contractor.

    That’s all a mess, but the important thing is I might get laid off, but I might not. There are so many factors in who they choose to cut that I have no way of knowing.

    I’m going crazy checking our stock price, and I’m sure it’s going to affect my work. I know I should probably be working my hardest to try and avoid being laid off, but realistically, there’s probably not much I can do to avoid that.

    I’ve got a bit of savings, if I really need to I can ask my parents for a loan. I’m just so anxious. I’m young, I was like 13 when the great recession happened, I’ve never been through a major pandemic. I’ve bought Alison’s book and I’ve been thinking through talking points and resume additions, I’ve cut a bunch of unnecessary subscriptions. Reaching feelers out to my network.

    I’m a high-earner in a cheap area, my wife doesn’t work (which I support, she doesn’t want to and has a lot of anxiety issues, and we don’t have a need). She also has issues with her ankles, honestly she’s borderline disabled and when we were dating I hated seeing what working did to her.

    That just adds on the stress…because it’s all on me to preserve our quality of life. I’m just this mix of responsible, calm prep and dread. It just makes it so hard to focus.

    1. T. Boone Pickens*

      This is easy for me to say but you need to stop checking your company’s stock price! The company isn’t going to lay you off just because the stock had a bad week. They would wait until the next quarterly earnings call to even remotely start looking at things like that.

      1. Count Boochie Flagrante*

        This. The entire market is down. Just because your company isn’t one of the very, very rare exceptions that’s still showing okay numbers doesn’t mean there’s a particular crisis where you are.

        It isn’t that stock price has no correlation with how bad business actually is, but short-term price movement really has very little to do with your company’s outlook. Please stop checking the stock ticker.

      2. GS*

        You’re probably right. Revenue was bad our last quarter, and I survived the round of layoffs. The stock has dropped over 10% in the past few days and keeps going down. This also wouldn’t technically be a layoff, they’d just cut the contractor budget (W2 contractor). Even then though, they wouldn’t be likely to do that right away.

        I need to stop checking the stockprice. That’s going to be hard, but yeah…that’s wrecking my emotions.

    2. Nicki Name*

      If you were around for the start of the last recession, you were around for the H1N1 flu pandemic in 2009. Put the fact that you don’t have any horrible memories about that up against the nightmare scenarios you’re picturing.

      As a fellow W2 contractor at the moment, I totally sympathize with the feeling of being the vulnerable one, though! It’s not a bad thing to keep up to date with your network and make sure your resume is ready anyway, because unexpected stuff can always happen to a business.

    3. Lifelong student*

      What is a W2 contractor? As far as I know (tax accountant here) you are either an employee receiving a W-2 or an independent contractor receiving a 1099.

      1. Nicki Name*

        You’re employed by company A, but contracted to company B. So company A pays you, pays your payroll taxes, and so forth, but you work at the office for company B, reporting to a manager at company B.

  159. SF86 details, anyone?*

    Any advice?

    I am reading the US form SF86. I am wondering if, for the listing of foreign nationals and foreign firms…how many pages this might need to be for a person who has worked internationally since 2012 – in my last seven years, I have worked almost exclusively with non US people and for non US firms!

    I wonder if I did have to fill this form out, how I could go about listing all my close friends and colleagues – just say there. are 100-ish? OMG, and yes to going to meetings/conferences in foreign countries… I think maybe 5 of those too…And ….travels outside of the USA? hahaha – I have been to *a lot* of countries in the last 7 years.

    3. Jeffrey Deutsch*

      If you haven’t started already, you need to peruse this site:

      https://news.clearancejobs.com/

      and these books:

      Federal Suitability and Security Clearances Issue Mitigation Handbook

      and

      Security Clearance Manual

      Both by William H. Henderson. (By the way, you should also consider retaining him to advise you on filling out the SF86 and on the rest of the process…especially the interview [not the same as a job interview!]. And tell him I sent you.)

      Another security clearance advisor — an actual lawyer (as in, lawyer-client privilege) — is Sean Bigley. Many others out there. Choose wisely.

      Good luck!

  160. John S*

    Hello, I’ve been having some mental health issues which have caused me to be unemployed for the last 2 years. As you can imagine, a 2 year gap has been making it very difficult to get interviews or callbacks. I’m thinking about lying on my resume and saying that I worked for a defunct company the last 2 years. Is there any way for companies to check and verify that?

    Thank you

    1. Count Boochie Flagrante*

      Yeah there is. Just because the company doesn’t exist anymore doesn’t mean that the people who used to work there stopped existing!

      1. Count Boochie Flagrante*

        Meaning, to clarify, they contact someone who used to work there and go “Hey, did you have a John S working for you? Can you give me a reference on him?” and the person they call goes “Who?”

    2. GS*

      At the very least, they’ll try to google that company or linkedin search it. They’ll ask for paystubs. In many ways, saying you worked for a defunct company is harder to lie about than falsely claiming you work for an existing company. This isn’t even counting that they’re going to ask why the company shut down, what projects you worked on, how you dealt with issues, etc.

      What industry/job do you work in? What’s the latest line item on your resume? You need to have a “projects” or “volunteering” section which says YYYY-Present.

      1. John S*

        I faked some projects and volunteer work, on the newest version of my resume, hopefully that’ll be enough.

        Thank you

        1. Antilles*

          Not to speak for GS here, but I’m fairly certain the intent wasn’t to just fake it, but to actually *do* some volunteering and other projects.
          First off, if it’s the last thing on your resume, you will absolutely be asked about it, in detail. Not because they’re trying to trick you or interrogate you, but because it’s your most recent experience. Also, if it’s an industry specific society, a lot of people have contacts within there who they might ask about (either asking you “oh, how’s Sandy doing? she still runs the local chapter, right?” or by asking Sandy about you). So for these (and other) reasons, you’re really running the risk of getting found out.
          Almost as importantly, volunteering within your industry is a fantastic way to actually make the kind of contacts and network that can get you jobs. And you often don’t even need to be like some long-known presence for years on end; even just reliably showing up for a couple months and helping out can be enough to get you on the inside enough to get referrals and help in your search.

    3. Spreadsheets and Books*

      Yes. I worked for a company that no longer exists. They still have verification in place through The Work Number.

    4. ThatGirl*

      Just as anecdotal evidence, my husband was unemployed (and struggling with depression) for nearly 2 years during the height of the Great Recession, and he has been fully employed for 9 years since then. Do some volunteer work, maybe freelance if you can, work part-time in retail or food service, but don’t lie.

      1. John S*

        How did he get employed after 2 years? I’m guessing he had a family member or friend on the inside get him the job?

        1. ThatGirl*

          Nope. He had the experience they were looking for, to be fair it wasn’t (still isn’t) a great paying job but the only “in” he had is that it was down the street from his high school, so he knew the neighborhood well. He got the job on his own merits.

          1. ThatGirl*

            I should note, he didn’t just sit on his butt for two years – he did volunteer work and had other interviews here and there in the meantime, but it took that long for the right fit and an offer.

        2. Can I get a Wahoo?*

          Hi John,
          It seems like you’re still in a negative place, but that’s no need to bring negativity to people trying to help you. Have you tried temping agencies for short term work to build up your resume? Don’t lie–it’ll just come back to bite you.

    5. Fiona*

      This might work in the short-term but if they find out you lied, it’s going to have way worse repercussions for your job and reputation. Don’t do it.

    6. Quandong*

      Hi John, are you the same poster from this comment in September 2019?
      https://www.askamanager.org/2019/09/open-thread-september-6-7-2019.html#comment-2638168

      Hello, I’m a 27 year old college graduate. I graduated with a degree in biochemistry, but haven’t been able to find a job in my field. I have over 80k in private student loans, so I was forced to take a minimum wage job at a warehouse. Now, it’s 5 years after my graduation and I work for just above minimum wage at a grocery store. I live with my parents due to my low pay and student loan payments.

      Since I’m 5 years out of school and have no relevant experience in my field, is my degree useless at this point? Will I ever get a “real” job? I’ve been severely depressed, I’m completely humiliated, and on the verge of giving up. Can someone please give me some advice? Is it over for me?

      I’m not sure what’s going on for you, but I agree with the other commenters here: don’t lie on your resume, it is easy for people to check facts. Instead, how about starting to volunteer in a low-key way to gain experience and start networking? It may not be in your preferred field but there’s a lot of good that can come from volunteering, not only for you but for others.

      If I recall correctly, you’ve posted on the weekend open threads too, and it seems like you’re under a lot of pressure with your mental health situation. You’ve received some excellent and kind advice from posters and from Alison too. I hope you might consider looking into some of the resources provided in those previous posts. Best wishes.

      1. John S*

        That was me yes. I’ve attempted suicide via inert gas asphyxiation since then and I’m trying to get back on my feet. I’m in the US so I don’t have any access to mental health resources. I’m deteriorating mentally and I’m desperate for help. All my posts have been deleted so far unfortunately.

        How long do I have to volunteer before I can start applying to paid positions?

  161. DecorativeCacti*

    Hi all,

    I’m job searching and wondering where or if I should put that I’m a shop steward on my resume. I know some people have a lot of Very Strong Feelings about unions, and it is hard to tell from the outside if someplace has a union or not.

    Does anyone have any experience?

        1. DecorativeCacti*

          It would be, but I worry that it would also weed out those that are just… uninformed or on the fence. Those that don’t actually have strong feelings, but think they do. Does that make sense?

          1. Jeffrey Deutsch*

            Not really. By definition, a feeling is something you feel you have.

            You may believe it’s not a well-thought-out, evidence-based feeling. Well, many feelings aren’t.

            The question remains: Do you want to consider working for a place where at least some of the management feels opposed to unions?

            (By no means a rhetorical question, of course.)

    2. Union rep*

      I am in higher education. I did not put Union rep on my cv nor did I mention it in any part of the interview process for my present position. I was part of a 3 year long salary negotiating team, the last year was one with threat of strike and a year working without a contract. In the end the workers in my class received a 5 to 10,000 dollar raise in the name of longevity and pay equity. The skills that I learned and put to use would have been great to talk about but for sure I would have been labeled a trouble maker. So no. Shop steward is not something management wants to hire. On the other hand I am sure what I learned helped me obtain the high end of the salary range.

      1. DecorativeCacti*

        We’re at a year and a half of negotiations, our contract expired 1/1/19 (the extension expired 1/1/20), and have voted to seek strike authorization.

        I definitely worry that people will just see troublemaker. I can’t be very picky right now. I don’t want to work someplace like Walmart that is staunchly anti-union, but… I gotta survive so I can’t blanket dismiss a whole lot of places like that.

        1. CL Cox*

          You have absolutely no obligation to report it. But keep in mind that you might get asked about it in the interview, since it’s very likely to come up when the potential employer reaches out for references.

  162. Chronic Overthinker*

    I posted last week about an upcoming review that I was nervous about. Turns out I had no reason to be suspicious. Scheduling can be hazardous, especially across multiple offices. Good news though, I got a raise and am on the track to start picking up more work and take on more tasks. It’s super exciting and has cemented the fact that I no longer have to worry about being unemployed any time soon. I am just an over-thinker. I am smart, capable and ready to turn this job into a career. :)

    1. LunaMei*

      Yay congrats! I feel you on being an overthinker. I am always convinced I’m one step away from being fired, for absolutely no good reason. This year I’m trying to turn it around and be more confident. :)

    2. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      I was wondering about your review, I had a feeling this would be the case. And I know you had some downtime you were worried about filling, so thankfully they’ll be getting you more work to do.

      1. Chronic Overthinker*

        They need the OM to take on more/new tasks and I offered to help if I could. If they choose to put me on that project, that should give me plenty to do to fill my time. Plus, there are plans to have me working on tasks to help the other support staff too. I’m much more optimistic now. Having said that though, our office was slow these past few days as most of the staff was out for a conference. Support staff stayed behind and my tasks slowed to a crawl. But I did my best to update the SOPs and organize my desk and answered the phones dutifully. Hopefully next week will be even more productive.

  163. JLS*

    I have a contractor, PM, who we need to let go. His work quality has been poor, and I’ve been trying to work through this with him, but it all came to a head in a difficult situation this week.

    On Monday, PM notified me that he had been in a pretty bad car accident over the weekend. I told him to take case of himself and not come to work if he needed to go to the doctor/rest/etc. The problem was that we had a Big Meeting on Tuesday and Wednesday that we had been preparing for and PM had been doing the documentation. I went to look at all of PM’s documentation and invites in order to fill in for him at Big Meeting and it was a mess! Nothing updated, full of mistakes and issues I had given feedback on, etc. I was able to get things organized at the last minute and Big Meeting went well without PM in attendance.

    I let my management know about all the issues I found with PM’s work and GrandBoss has now asked that we end our contract with him. But how do I do this without it seeming like it’s because PM had to take time off due to an accident? It’s not the accident that is causing this, but the fact that it brought continued serious issues with his work to light. I’m struggling with finding the right way to be both sensitive and realistic.

    1. GS*

      That sucks. How bad is this accident? Is he hospitalized?

      I think, unavoidably, if you let cancel his contract before he comes back to the office, you’ll be seen as firing him for being in an accident. Other people will read it that way.

      I think it’s worth comparing a week or 2 of sick pay with a potential morale hit. Ultimately I’d talk with GrandBoss though and make sure that’s okay.

      1. JLS*

        PM was in the ER, but never hospitalized overnight. He came back to work the day after Big Meeting. Right now we’re looking at cancelling the contract next week which would have him back at work for ~7 days.

        1. GS*

          Oh yeah, you’re fine. Firing people sucks, but it’s part of your job, and I think you’re more than fine to pull the trigger.

          1. JLS*

            Thanks! I’ve never had this come up so close to an accident or something similar. I appreciate the feedback!

            1. valentine*

              Even if he were still out for the accident, you could simply list the issues with his work, ending with the BM. I think it’s more cruel to make people return to the office to fire them. And I’d fire him now, not next week. Isn’t he just going to make more messes for you to cleanup?

  164. CrookedLily*

    It’s goal setting time, which is really a joke because in my group, our goals are dictated to us and we are just told to copy and paste them into the performance management system.

    Much of our performance is measured against call center metrics, despite the fact that as an IT help desk, our performance should be measured on technical knowledge and ability, not how fast we can push calls through a queue. (Seriously, our current system rewards those who get people off the phone quickly and close their own tickets without escalating, regardless of whether the solutions they give are effective or correct.) In spite of years of requesting reasonable (ADA) accommodation on some of these metrics, primarily the percentage of time ready for calls (due to my needing more time for post-call work, bathroom breaks and other trips away from my desk taking longer), and being assured I would be accommodated, every year I am ultimately evaluated low on my performance reviews due to not meeting these same numbers that never end up being modified. (I used an anonymous username at the time, but I am the person who posted several weeks ago about the highly inaccurate review.)

    So, what I’m trying to figure out is, how firm can I be as we go into this new goal year, that my accommodation requests need to be taken seriously? That saying, “yeah, it’s fine that you take longer to do things that take you off the phones,” but then giving me a poor performance review because of it, does not equal a reasonable accommodation. Or maybe what I’m trying to ask is how can I be clear about this, without coming off as insubordinate?

    1. Legally a Vacuum*

      Who are you asking for accommodations? They’re clearly not responding, so you need to consider escalating. Have you spoken with HR? Pull together any documentation you have and make it clear that ADA accommodations are not being made, which can put the company in legal jeopardy.

    2. HBJ*

      I’m unclear on what you’ve requested. The process to get accommodations isn’t just saying, “hey, this is what I need.” It’s supposed be an interactive process.

      Honestly, this doesn’t really sound like a reasonable accommodation to me. Does the ADA really require that you be allowed to do less work for the same pay/job description as someone else? I would think a reasonable accommodation, for example, would be assigning you to the desk nearest the bathroom so trips take less time, allowing you to have a water bottle at your desk so you don’t have to take a trip to get a drink, allowing you to use voice-to-text to input post-call notes instead of having to write, etc. Is that completely off base?

      1. CM*

        I think you’re right that there are lots of different solutions they could potentially reach if the call centre ever did an actual accommodation process (which it doesn’t sound like they’ve done), but I would argue that saying, “You’re allowed to have a longer average handle time, or take a lower number of calls because your disability makes it take longer to do stuff in between,” IS potentially a fair accommodation.

        I don’t see it as being unfair to anyone else, because no one else has a disability (or, if they do, they’re entitled to their won accommodation process). If the call centre’s expectations are reasonable, and represent a target that everyone should be able to hit, then the only thing holding the OP back is a medical condition, and it would be unethical (and potentially illegal) to penalize them for that. It’s like saying, “Everyone else is six feet tall, and the OP is four feet tall, so they need to stand on a box to be able to see what we’re looking at.” It’s not unfair that they’re the only one who gets a box.

        If, on the other hand, the call centre’s expectations are vastly UNreasonable, and the OP’s disability is allowing them to be the only person who has somewhat reasonable targets that it’s possible to hit, the problem isn’t the OP or the accommodation, it’s the call centre setting bad targets. And that’s a different problem to solve.

        1. HBJ*

          Maybe I’m being unclear. Using your example, accommodations that enable her to do the full job are like giving her a two-foot box to stand on. An accommodation that only requires her to do part of her job is like saying “you only have to see the four feet you can see from your current height.”

          My understanding is that a reasonable accommodation is supposed to enable you to you to do the entire job, not 75%, 85%, whatever percent of it.

    3. CM*

      Allowing that call centres are terrible and the people who run them are usually incompetent, I think the way to try to approach it is to say, “When we talked before about accommodations for my medical condition, my understanding was that we had agreed that I wouldn’t be penalized for taking fewer calls/having a longer handle time/whatever, on account of how it takes me longer to do X. But now I see that I AM being penalized for that, and I’m confused.”

      You’re not actually confused — you’re just saying you’re confused to be diplomatic.

      And then listen to the response, and, if the response doesn’t sound like an accommodation (if it’s something like, “Yeah, but I have to mark you the same way as everyone else,” or whatever) you can say (calmly), “That’s not really what I expected when I asked for accommodation. It sounds to me like I’m still being penalized for having a disability/medical condition.”

      And then depending on the answer, maybe suggest that the two of you could talk to HR and try to go through a more structured accommodation process so that you’re all clear on what’s supposed to happen. Sample dialogue: “Right now, I feel like this is just my opinion vs your opinion, and we’re not going to agree. I think maybe we kind of rushed through the accommodation process earlier and we should talk to HR and do this really carefully to make sure that whatever we come up with is going to work.”

      If your supervisor resists at that point, just go to HR without them, and have some version of the same conversation.

      I think the attitude you want, in either case, is that you are being calmly persistent but not angry. You have a right to be angry, but appropriate displays of anger often get interpreted as insubordination in really authoritarian workplaces, and it could make the HR people want to crack down on you instead of helping. If it helps, think of yourself as a Victorian gentleman or lady — “Terribly sorry, but I must disagree with your interpretation of the facts.” That kind of attitude.

      Good luck.

  165. I need to get out*

    First-time commenter, but I’ve been AAM a lot to deal with my work stress lately, so I figured it was time to jump in.

    How do you put the emotional/etc labour into job hunting while in a job that takes everything out of you?

    I’ve been in my current job for a year and a half and while I was warned ahead of time that my future boss was difficult (micromanaging, controlling, etc) I am at the end of my rope. My days are dominated by being told the ways in which I am inadequate at my job- most recently she basically said that I couldn’t read or write and was “illiterate.” When she isn’t around, I’m constantly anxious that everything I do is wrong. Because of the structure of my workplace, my boss is largely untouchable so the only thing that other people in the organization can do is talk to her about the issues- and I’m afraid to even bring it up with people because I know from experience that she won’t improve and things will likely just get worse.

    I know I need to leave this job, but the problem is that I come home most days too emotionally exhausted to even think about updating my resume/writing cover letters/hunting for jobs- not to mention I’ve been experiencing general fatigue issues the past year. Even on the weekends I just don’t want to think about anything job/career related at all as a break from it all.

    1. Eukomos*

      Oh man, I sympathize with that, I went through something really similar with my last job. Two major things were helpful.

      First, unfortunately, is accepting that you’re not going to be able to work at this job search at top speed. It’s going to be slow, and that’s fine, because slow progress is better than no progress, and you don’t have the energy for fast progress. Set a goal for how long you’re going to work on it each day, and make it a really, really achievable goal, like fifteen minutes. If you have more time than that, great, but if you don’t, you still hit your goal and made progress.

      Second, write things down! When I’m exhausted I can’t keep track of tasks in my head. I made a spreadsheet of everything I needed to do for my job search, all the people I was going to reach out to, books I was going to read, jobs I was going to apply to, classes I was going to take. Also tracked what I’d accomplished, where I’d applied etc. Writing it down takes some of the tasks off of your plate, since you don’t have to remember on your own, or worry about forgetting, or try to figure out what you’re going to work on when you sit down for your fifteen minutes that day.

      1. I need to get out*

        Honestly? 15 minutes is a great suggestion, thanks. I did a walk-in mental health evaluation recently after a particularly horrible day of work and the psych nurse was like “you just have choose one day this weekend and force yourself to get it done- even if it takes 12 hours” which is a pretty bizarre suggestion after I had just explained how exhausted I was.

        And thanks for the reminder to write things down- I’ve been having such brain fog that I am totally losing track of things. I have used spreadsheets while in the applying process, but never in the steps before then, so I’ll start that this weekend!

        1. call centre bee*

          I’m in the same boat! I’m doing about 30 mins a day (I stepped up after a month of 15 mins because while that was great to get my CV up to date and polished, I found cover letters and more involved job applications were taking me a little longer.) Some days what I do isn’t a concentrated job hunt but is a skill improvement – last night I was reading around IT stuff after applying for a stretch position that would be a new field for me. It still counted as my 30 mins. It all adds up!

    2. Nita*

      That sounds rough. I think you have to try being less emotionally invested in your job. It’s easier said then done, but you need to focus on getting out, and there’s only so much emotional energy you have. And it sounds like you’ll be criticized whether you’ll put your everything into work, or a little less than your everything, so… Also, if can anyone help you with the job search – do a first draft of your resume, look up some good openings – that might make it a little easier for you to work on it. And don’t get discouraged if you keep sending out resumes with no response, sometimes this stuff takes time.

      1. I need to get out*

        Sigh, I’ve known that I need to try and be less invested, but it just goes against all of my work-related instincts. My coworker receives much of the same bs from our boss, but it doesn’t bother him nearly as much because he never worries about taking pride in his work or being a perfectionist, so the comments don’t hit him personally (although he is also planning to get out at some point).

        I do thankfully have a best friend with a business degree who is always willing to hold my hand through a job search, I just need to take the leap of really getting her help.

    3. Annony*

      Do you have any PTO you can take? Using a couple of days might be a good idea (especially attached to a weekend). Take the first two days to rest and then use the other days to update your resume and cover letter and apply for some jobs.

      Other than that, start saving up if possible so that you have enough of a buffer to quit even without something lined up. That has helped me cope in the past. Being able to see the progress I was making towards being able to leave made me feel less helpless. I got another job before it came to that, but it really helped me mentally to count down to when I could quit.

    4. Happy Lurker*

      Excellent advice from Eukos and Annony.
      Lists are my lifesaver, but whenever I get too tired it’s the first thing to go, and I begin to feel out of sorts until I remember to make my list.
      PTO is an excellent idea. My guess is with a boss like this they will give you hard time, so take a couple days sick leave if you think you can handle the blowback.
      Cheat, just a little. Spend a few minutes of work time on your phone looking for jobs. Either while on your break or while your boss is in a meeting. It will give you a sense of getting out. Combine a couple of these. Make a list on your phone of the things you have accomplished at this job (while you are doing it!).
      Good luck.

  166. Eukomos*

    How long should I wait before following up on a favor someone promised? I had a really helpful informational interview earlier this week with a woman who works in a field that looks like it could be a good match for my background, and she promised she’d send me a list of several employers in our city in this field. I sent her a thank you note later that day which mentioned the info she said she’d send, and two days later I haven’t heard back. I realize that two days isn’t very long, but it sounded like it would be a thirty second task to send the email. I’m wondering if it slipped her mind and I should follow up, but if she’s just been busy then I don’t want to be pestering her. We connected through the alum organization of a school we both went to, rather than a friend or colleague, if that makes any difference.

      1. Blue Eagle*

        I’d wait a week and recontact – and then if you don’t receive anything, consider that you aren’t going to get anything and let it go. And yes, contact via an alum that you don’t know rather than through a friend or colleague generally does make a difference.

  167. Stumped*

    I work in a government agency with literally no budget beyond bare necessities. Any sort of employee recognition comes out of managements pocket. We are severely understaffed and only stay afloat due to some rockstars on the team.

    We’d like to do something to recognize these rockstars. Usually this involves food as it is something we can put together without a large cost. For several reasons, food is not going to be an option at this time.
    Any ideas for how to recognize them that is meaningful? They know they’re appreciated as they are regularly thanked and told what a great job they do. We’re looking for something public beyond a certificate/acknowledgement to the group. Thanks in advance!

    1. AAM Success Story*

      Can you give them any paid time off? Time off as an incentive can be a great motivator, and it feels like a reward to be able to leave early on a Friday.

      1. Stumped*

        That’d be great, but no. After letting staff leave early on Xmas Eve, we got reprimanded so have to be careful with that. We’re tax funded and complaints happen from the public. Our department has no interface with the publoc, but it’s not allowed.

    2. (Mr.) Cajun2core*

      Ask them what they want….

      Make them feel respected. Ask them for their input on how to run things and if it is at all feasible, implement it, even if it is something as small as updating a form.

      Ask them what you can do to make their job easier. There may be things that don’t cost money, such as updating a form, requiring 2 days notice for a request (and enforce it!), giving them more autonomy (they don’t have to get approval from a manager to do something). Little things like that can go a long way.

  168. AAM Success Story*

    Hello!
    I wanted to share my success story for anyone who is feeling a little discouraged by the job hunt. Just remember it only takes 1 company to see your true worth. I posted under different names here in the past, but the gist of my story is I was VERY burned out in my last job after being with the company for 3 years. My job changed significantly after I accepted what I thought was a promotion and went from strategic advising clients to basically being a customer service rep who listened to customers complain/yell/curse about billing all day. I accepted a contract to hire position at another firm to get out from my job, and possibly move to a different field where I could apply the strategic side of my skill set to a new field. Well that went bust faster than I saw coming-about 5 weeks in, they systemically told all the POC that we weren’t ‘good culture fits’. I directed my attentions to moving to a city where I had family and friends, but after trying both remote positions and applying as a local candidate I didn’t get any offers. After recovering from my burnout and seeing the positives in my current place, I am happy to say that I found a job at a VERY exciting company and will be starting Monday! What I can’t even believe is that they accepted my salary range as the range I was giving in a higher COL. So not only will I have a new job, I’ll be making 20k more than I was at my last role!

    My takeaway is the shift happened when I stopped viewing job interviews as one sided, and went into them with a confident attitude that I have something to bring, if these skills are needed here and for this role then great! If not, then I need to keep looking because I want to find a place I can contribute and grow. I also want to send best wishes to all the seekers out there, AAM is truly such a great resource. I would not have found the confidence if not for the great advice on this site.

    3. Blue Eagle*

      It’s great to read a story where the job-seeker persisted and triumphed in the end! Thanks for sharing.

  169. Well...*

    Question for the academics out there:

    I have a collaboration that has turned downright poisonous with a senior person (I’m a postdoc). Two meetings ago he lost his temper and yelled at me and my other collaborator. When I asked him to be civil he lost it even more and accused us of all sorts of incompetence (it actually really got me down, but after a few days I recovered as it truly is an outlier given my other collaborations. I’m a minority in my field so the imposter syndrome is real and ofc it’s always impossible to know for sure whether I’m actually deserving of what I’ve accomplished). At the end he apologized with something along the lines of no matter how stupid we were nobody should ever yell.

    Last meeting I addressed the behavior and tried to get him to agree going forward that we would all try to be civil and stay productive. I pointed out that I think he misjudged me, and he backtracked and said he never commented on my abilities (he did) but just my commitment to this project (admittedly this project has been on a downward spiral for a while given the rising hostilities). He actually said he’s happy he lost his cool because it means he finally got it out there that we should work harder. Bc a senior person definitely doesn’t have the power in this situation to be direct /s.

    My question: it seems like we’re close to finishing. Should I cut and run now so as not to waste my time on a relationship that will never recover, or should I stay and keep my name on a paper I contributed to. This guy doesn’t work at the same institute as I do and I definitely will never use him for a letter. But I’m t would really sting to see the paper come out without my name on it, because I did a lot of work for it.

    1. Postdoc*

      That’s a really hard one. Unfortunately, you are the only one who can really answer that question. What is the likelihood that the paper will actually be published? If this is likely to go up in flames, I would cut and run. If it is really that close to finishing, can you have your mentor in the meetings as well? If not, is there an option for you to take your work and pursue it independently?

      I’m in STEM so when collaborations don’t work out I can stop working with them without my work being published without me. I had a collaboration that didn’t work out. We stopped working with them but still put them on the paper they had contributed to.

      1. annonny*

        Humanities academic here (and in a somewhat similar situation) and I also want to ask, along with Postdoc, are you submitting this project for publication or is this an accepted paper that you’re revising?

        Because if it’s “we’re almost ready to submit” and you’ve still got peer review ahead of you, consider that if you get a revise/resubmit or even an acceptance, you are likely looking at more collaborative time ahead of you. Do you want that? Can you manage that?

        If it’s been through peer review and you really are at almost all the way done, then you might want to think about if you can stick it out until it’s done and wrapped up.

    2. ampersand*

      I’m prefacing this with: not an academic! But my thoughts are–1. hang on if you can and publish the paper, especially since you’re almost done *and* you said it would sting to see the paper published without your name; and 2. if it were me, my worry would be that if I bailed at this juncture, senior person who obviously isn’t able to keep his cool might drag my name through the mud. If you’re sure that’s NOT going to be an issue if you were to bow out now, and you don’t think you can keep going on this paper, then I would suggest considering bowing out. Caveat to this is, of course, if your mental health is at stake, do what’s best for you/your mental health!

    3. Overeducated*

      Maybe I’m missing nuances, but it sounds like you’ve already contributed to the paper, so shouldn’t your name be on it somewhere regardless, unless they remove ALL the data and analysis you’ve worked on? Maybe further down the author list if you do less work than planned, but it seems unethical to remove you.

  170. Fix the Problem Before it Erupts*

    Any tips on how to convince your boss’s boss plan for the organization of the department?

    I can’t for the life of me figure out how to make this super anonymous, so I’m going to just go for it, lol.

    We are a startup, and sort of operate on a shoestring staff for the most part. Barebones, no extra. This involves a lot of late nights and weekend work, and has been for 3 years now. There really is no end in sight at this point, and we are really starting to get burned out. I manage our two cost accountants, and answer to the controller, who answers to the CAO. One of my accountants is on their way out almost definitely (actively interviewing) the other is brand new, but long term career goals are not in keeping with staying here more than a couple years. We barely make it by at this point with the people we have now, if we are missing one person, it will be a nightmare. We also have an open position for a general accountant which will answer directly to the CAO, rather than fall under the cost accounting structure.

    My suggestion was to not hire a general accountant, but to hire a third cost accountant. This way we have a little redundancy, we can spread out the work more, give people time for cross training, special projects, and basically be able to do more with their jobs then come in and work frantically every single day. This seems to me to be a no-brainer, especially as they are moving forward with getting the general accountant (it has been stated that the entire purpose of this accountant is for special projects). If they are one of the cross trained cost accountants they will have a much deeper understanding of the finance process within the plant and be much better equipped to do special projects as they arrive, plus with three different people to choose from when assigning projects, you can sync up projects with skills (or developing skills) in a much more efficient manner, plus you will have more skills to choose from no one person will have every skill needed for any and all special projects, not to mention what will they be doing when there isn’t a project for them to work on? We already have too many specialized people who only work on their tiny little piece of the puzzle, and it is causing serious morale problems.

    My boss is completely on board with this, and so is the CFO, but the CAO (CAO answers to CFO, so it is a bit confusing I know) is the sticking point. At this point we’ve been given a soft no, but are being given the opportunity to present our case. I’m trying to figure out the best way to go about this. My fear is that these more theoretical issues (which won’t be theoretical shortly, but I digress) won’t hold any weight with him, but it really is the crux of the matter. The answer we have been given so far is that we’ve already added one head count to the mix, why do we need another. But we really haven’t. I was promoted to manager and replaced, but I have been given different work to do, it isn’t like we just promoted me and added a person and the department is still responsible for the same work. This could probably be a two accountant job, if we had the appropriate systems and I.T. support, but we don’t, and no one is willing to go to bat for us and get it sorted out. So if we are going to continue to operate as manual systems, we need more bodies to throw at the problem. Plus there is so much other stuff we could and should be doing to do our jobs better, but we can’t because we are frantically trying to keep up with the day to day.

    I’m having my people pull together lists of their day-to-day, special projects, and projects they never have time to get to, and going to start there, but any help or advice anyone can offer I would be most appreciative.

    1. Happy Lurker*

      After all that you said above and they still have reservations… you may never be able to convince CAO. It is as clear as the nose on my face why you need another body AND more up to date software / systems and help from IT. I get that budgets need to be kept, but burnout is real and the more you try to do with less the worse the work and increase in mistakes.
      I think you are on the right track and hope you can get your extra person.
      The lists of day to day, special, never get to and doG forbid you take a day off is a great place to start. Is there anyway to throw OT figures in there or is everyone exempt?
      Can you think of things your office COULD be doing IF you had the extra body – like a project special to the CAO’s heart?
      Good luck!

  171. baby lawyer*

    I just wanted to pop in and say thank you to everyone! I just finished my law degree and have been busy with bar prep for the past few months. I ended up becoming aware of a full-time opening with the company I worked with during law school. I took some time out of bar prep (I was thrilled to do anything else lol) and did the application process: 2 long interviews and a written assessment. Then this week, after 2 grueling days of taking the bar exam, I found out I got the full-time position! I’m very excited!

    I just wanted to thank everyone for their comments and advice over the years and many posts on this website as I consulted it about every step of the way! I bow down to the Magic Question, as both of my interviewers commented on how much they liked it! There’s also the more general stuff about understanding hiring timelines, etc.

    Thank you all!

  172. CookieCutterT*

    What is the best way to get experience for working remotely? I see many remote/work-from-home jobs that I would like to apply for but most if not all require at least 1 year of experience working remotely.

    1. I edit everything*

      If you’re currently employed, and working from home is a possibility, set up a work-from-home schedule with your manager.
      If you’re not currently employed and could do some kind of contract/gig/freelance work for a while, that’s another avenue. As a freelance editor, everything I do is remote, and no one asks “how long have you been a remote worker.” It’s not an easy road, though, and you’ll want to have a financial cushion. If you don’t have something that works well for freelancing, then consider virtual assistant work or similar.

    2. Tabby Baltimore*

      I haven’t done remote work myself, but many AAMers have. This will go into moderation b/c of the links, but when it emerges you can try the following sites that have been mentioned previously on AAM. Full disclosure: I have not ever done remote or WFH work, and I don’t know if any of the sites below require any kind of experience to apply for any of their jobs:

      We Work Remotely (www.weworkremotely.com)
      Working Nomads (www.workingnomads.co)
      Jobspresso (jobspresso.co/remote-work/)(for programming/design/program mgmt/marketing jobs)
      Amylynn/Annika (www.amylynn.org/home/)
      Dream Home Based Work (www.dreamhomebasedwork.com)
      Rev.com
      National Capital Contracting (www.nccsite.com/remote-transcription-opportunities)

  173. Overeducated*

    Friends, I think I am getting mild shin splints from wearing (low! sensible!) heels at work after extended leave. Truly pathetic.

    I heard a rumor that a job I’ve had my eye on may be open to applications soon. Fingers crossed that it’s true! Guess I’d better pause the house search again….

    1. ACDC*

      If you wear slacks to work, you could try wearing compression calf sleeves under your pants. I did that for about a month when I had shin splints last year.

    2. Arts Akimbo*

      I don’t really understand the biomechanics of this, but the only thing that has ever helped my shin splints is leg stretches. If I start to feel shin splinty, I know that I need to do more stretches. Also works on my plantar fascitis, so… maybe I just have muscles that need stretching, LOL! But maybe it will help you to develop or increase a stretching routine. Probably 3x per day until the shin splints resolve.

    3. MacGillicuddy*

      You probably don’t have enough padding in the heels of your shoes. Get some of those gel heel cushions from the drugstore.
      Another option is those three-quarter length gel insoles for women’s dress shoes. They’re long enough to go under the ball of your foot but don’t crowd your toes.
      I got shin splints when a new job had polished concrete floors instead of carpet ( and that was when wearing very low heels). Gel heel cushions helped a lot.

  174. Fix the Problem Before it Erupts*

    I just wrote up a very long a detailed post, but it isn’t showing in the comments. I’m wondering if original comments are delayed/reviewed, as I usually just comment on already posted comments. This is kind of a test, so I apologize to everyone.

    1. Fix the Problem Before it Erupts*

      This posted immediately, so I guess my comment got lost in the ether. Sigh.

      1. Antilles*

        The auto-flagging also picks up on various wording – most notably curse words, but also a few hot-button political terms, some divisive political figures, a couple insults, etc. Don’t know exactly what words fall into it, but I’ve had at least a couple comments vanish into the ether, only to show up later, so I’m assuming there’s at least a few oddball words that are in the list.

    3. ThatGirl*

      I had a comment disappear earlier; I posted a second time, that one also didn’t show up, but then the first one did later. So I dunno, seems like things might be a little glitchy.

  175. Fix the Problem Before it Erupts*

    I guess I’ll try again, with maybe fewer details.

    Basically, I’m looking for the best way to convince my boss’s boss that we need to hire another person for my team, before we are seriously up a creek when someone leaves. We barely make do as it is (late days, often weekend work), one team mate has at least one foot out the door, and everyone is getting burned out by the expectations. I’ve made the suggestion, it was received favorably by my immediate boss and the CFO, but an intermediate manager is asking for further convincing.

    1. Nita*

      If your work is contract-driven, you might pitch the fact that having more staff means the ability to chase bigger contracts.

        1. MonteCristo85*

          Thanks, I just found it today. It appears to have gone missing for a couple hours, lol.

  176. BirdBrainGirl*

    I hate being late to the party, but here I am.
    I’m an independent contractor, and I write for several different publications.
    I just began writing for a local magazine that is family-oriented, and I’m in charge of their music feature. At the behest of my contact (not the editor, but the person who hired me and gives me direction for my assignments), I attended a concert, interviewed the band members and wrote a 600-word article for the magazine. After I invoiced the magazine for the work, I was told that they weren’t running the piece because it didn’t “fit” with the publication’s readership, and I wasn’t going to get paid.
    My contact was aware of every element of the assignment, and had been given the band’s name. She never once told me that the band was not a fit, or that I shouldn’t pursue the article. I sent her all the text exchanges we had before the concert, and she didn’t dispute them, other than to say that I was supposed to be writing about all-ages concerts. However, she knew the concert wasn’t all-ages when it was assigned to me, so I’m confused by her comment.
    I don’t have a written contract with the publication, and I’m hesitant to do any more work for them given this event.
    Aside from insisting on a signed contract, is there anything I can do to encourage them to pay me for my work?

    1. Morning reader*

      You were told by your contact or by the magazine? I can’t tell which you have a contractual relationship with. If possible, can you push back to say that you expect to be paid for assigned work, whether or not they publish it? It doesn’t sound like you went off on your own to write this and then shopped it around for sale. It was an assignment so you were working for someone.

    2. Nacho*

      Without a contract, there’s not a lot you can do. That’s why you should always insist on a contract before you do any work.

      1. BirdBrainGirl*

        Thanks to you both. I’ve written an email to my contact and copying the editor, letting them know that I’m disappointed in their decision, and requesting that a contract be drawn up for any future work.

        1. Freelance Writer so I know*

          If you have emails querying the article. An okay go ahead from the editor. An amount of money agreed upon- per word or for the whole thing. Standard would be a kill fee and the right to shop it around elsewhere. Lets say they agreed to $600 for the article and then didn’t run it, they might offer a kill-fee of 350.

    3. MissDisplaced*

      Oh dear! And thus you’ve learned a hard truth about freelance creative work and the importance of having a contract. I’m sorry! It sucks. I would push back on them again and insist you be paid for your time, whether they publish or not—it’s still time you spent working for them.

      You MAY be able to take them to small claims court given you have backup of emails documenting the assignment and prior discussions about the scope of work. A judge may side that you wrote it at their direction and with their implicit agreement, and thus you’re due payment for the work you delivered.

      And in NO WAY would I EVER do any work for them again. Even if this was a misunderstanding, they don’t have their shit together and this is a crappy way to treat freelancers.

  177. KoiFeeder*

    No advice, just ranting. I was told that the fellow TAs would grade my section of the class while I was recovering so that I wasn’t grading on norco. Didn’t happen. One of the students ended up emailing me. I am unhappily sober this morning while I grade everyone. :p

      1. KoiFeeder*

        It’s not the students’ fault I had to have emergency surgery, and grading was supposed to happen monday. They’d already been very patient!

  178. Rosy*

    I’m the personnel chair of our cooperative preschool, and our school director (“Cathy”) reached out to me today to ask if I had any ideas or thoughts about how to reassure a current staff member (“Diana”) that she’s doing a great job. We recently had an incident where a parent got upset about something that is extremely common in a group childcare setting (e.g. baby cried for a few minutes while the care provider changed another baby’s diaper; not ideal but not dangerous or unexpected for group care). Diana is trustworthy and good at her job, but she tends to be extremely sensitive to any feedback, and thought she was specifically in trouble because of the upset parent. Cathy has mitigated the situation with the parent (they are now satisfied with the situation), but Diana is still struggling to believe she’s doing a good job, despite Cathy repeatedly reassuring her that she’s doing great. Is there anything else we can or should be doing to assure Diana that her job security is good and we think she’s doing well? While I am not inclined to coddle, I also believe in reassurance and being thoughtful when staff are struggling. Just not sure what else we can do, especially from a parents’ perspective. Advice?

  179. Mary-Kate*

    Does anyone have a fearful/suck-up manager?

    My manager, Donna, was promoted to manager in my department about a year ago. My other co-worker, Adam, was promoted to team lead. Adam leads a team within my department, but I work on Donna’s team and not so much with Adam. Adam and Donna got to where they are by sucking up to management and hogging all the work. While Donna has knowledge and is at a higher level than Adam, they got promoted before they were ready. For instance, Adam has very poor time management skills and doesn’t know how to prioritize. He is also VERY good-looking, tall and charming but is disruptive and has a hard time focusing. NO ONE calls him out on his time management and allows poor behavior like repeatedly missing project deadlines.

    Last week, Paul, emailed our team asking us to do a task. Last month, Donna actually sent out a process document for that exact task telling Paul’s department to directly reach out to Adam. I wrote back letting Paul (copying our team) know that he needed to reach out to Adam, who then completed the task.

    Donna emailed me saying that Adam didn’t have the bandwidth for these tasks at the moment, so the rest of us had to help out. I wrote back asking when that was communicated to us and I didn’t mind helping if he was busy but we need these types of issues communicated out. Her response was that Adam told us this (which I don’t remember) and she’s grown frustrated with how much I’m pushing back on her lately.

    I’m so exhausted at this point. Adam and Donna waste so much time talking and they so are loud. I’m also annoyed that Donna doesn’t mind calling me out, but seems afraid to do the same to Adam.

    Yes, I’m looking for other jobs, but the team dynamic is wearing down my confidence.

    1. MissDisplaced*

      Unfortunately, you’ll run into these types nearly everywhere in Corporate America.

      I actually was told I could not use a very standard word the rest of the word uses (think phone) because a particular High-level manager doesn’t like that word and insists it be called a communications device. Several suckup managers concurred despite all evidence that phone is the correct industry term.

  180. Can I get a Wahoo?*

    How would the math work to turn a regular exempt salary position into a 4 on/3 off? I would love to have something like this, but I’d first want to see if I can afford it.

    1. ThatGirl*

      I think those are typically 4 9-hour days or 4 10-hour days, to work out to a full, compressed workweek. I’ve never seen a 32-hour week, but if that’s what you’re looking for, it’d be 4/5ths the salary, right? so reduce the pay by 20%?

    2. AnotherLibrarian*

      This depends on how your work place calculates pay. My work place calculates pay based on hourly rates, regardless of exempt or non-exempt status. Are you thinking of working 4 days 10 hours a day or working 20% less per week? If you’re thinking of working 20% less, I would assume a 20% pay cut.

    3. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      If you don’t cut hours and do 4 days at 10 hours, no adjustments.

      But if you’re reducing hours, do it on a daily scale to prorate.

      50k annually at an average of 40hrs a week is 192.30 per day. So 192.30×4= 39,998 annual.

  181. Anon In Case Anyone Knows Me*

    I can’t share the details. But.

    I JUST GOT OFFERED A PROMOTION!!!!!!!!!!

    I’ve been here just over a year. And I’m getting a new title and increase in pay. I’m so excited I could burst.

      1. Anon In Case Anyone Knows Me*

        Details should be completely ironed out middle/end-ish of March. So a start date of the beginning of April. (But I work for a BIG corporation so I’ll believe that when I actually see it.)

        1. Whoo hooo!*

          Yea! Sometimes it feels like AAM is the only place where its appropriate to share good and exciting work news. Yea, you!

  182. Fake Old Converse Shoes (not in the US)*

    We’ll have an intern next week. A trans intern. We’re not ready, we’re so not ready for this. I thought we could get HR training for this, but all he had was a short talk with our manager that was basically “watch your mouth, think twice before joking, and be respectful”. I respect his initiative, but I don’t think it’s enough. Any suggestions?

    1. stitchinthyme*

      Be civil and professional, and use their preferred name and pronouns. Treat them like a person. Why is that difficult?

    2. ThatGirl*

      Is there something specific you’re worried about? The short version is “treat the intern like you would anyone else”.

    3. Rusty Shackelford*

      As long as you keep thinking of them as who they are now, and not who they might have been in the past (on the outside, anyway), and don’t make inappropriate jokes or comments (which you should be avoiding no matter what), you should be fine.

    4. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      Be ready to tell people to shut their mouths and report the hell out of anyone who can’t behave themselves.

      Also sometimes we underestimate others. When you’re face to face with someone, they are HUMAN to you and less likely to lash out than when people are talking hypothetical or about people who aren’t “real” to them.

    5. AnotherLibrarian*

      Do you have a reason to be concerned anyone wouldn’t be civil and gracious? Use the right pronouns, be professional, treat them like you would any other intern.

    6. Count Boochie Flagrante*

      So, this may sound really obvious, but somehow a lot of people completely go off their heads the first time they (knowingly) meet someone who is trans:

      Everything that is inappropriate to say to your colleagues is still inappropriate with this intern.

      You don’t immediately ask people about their medical issues, about the state of their genitals, about their relationships with their families. Don’t say weird crap about how much they do/don’t look like their gender. Treat the intern the way you would if you didn’t happen to know they were trans.

      I wish I could wonder why this even has to be an issue, but unfortunately, I know exactly why it does. Alison’s open post from a couple weeks ago about how an office can be supportive for trans colleagues has some good advice in it.

    7. Fake Old Converse Shoes (not in the US)*

      Thanks for your suggestions! My main concern is that this will be the first trans person they see in their lives (even for me), and knowing their sense of humour is childish veering to the inappropriate/crass/vulgar side, I’m worried we could create a hostile environment.

      1. ThatGirl*

        First one you/they know of. Presentations vary. How do you even know this intern is trans? But you and your coworkers should treat everyone with respect. Use their name, use their pronouns, don’t ask idiotic questions. Treat them like a person.

        1. valentine*

          this will be the first trans person they see in their lives (even for me)
          There’s a gross Barnum & Bailey tinge here. If you’re the hall monitor, so to speak, lead by example and shut down all comments that shouldn’t be made about anyone.

      2. TyphoidMary*

        Odds are extremely good that this is not the first trans person you’ve seen. (: People who see me casually on a day to day basis are unlikely to realize I’m trans, for example.

        See if a local trans advocacy group provides professional training (this is actually part of my job–I consult w professionals on how to serve trans clients in an affirming way).

  183. CA Freelance*

    I’m way late to the party today, but am hoping someone’s still reading!
    Are you a California freelancer who’s being affected by California AB 5 (the new “gig workers” law)?
    If so, and if you’re not already an LLC, do you intend to become one?
    Are you hearing any reactions to the legislation from non-California clients?
    I’m a longtime non-LLC freelance who’s trying to decide whether to incorporate or become an on-payroll part-timer for my main client.
    Thanks for any thoughts.

  184. The Man, Becky Lynch*

    Our ownership is outside of the US and so is our executive team. So they were [pleasantly] surprised when they found me in the office of our new executive decorating for their arrival. I guess that’s a cultural thing that they don’t do [not because they aren’t festive, they’re a festive folk but not for this kind of thing.]

    My response was “It’s not necessarily an American thing but yeah, we do this here some places. I’m just over here adjusting our company culture as I see fit ;)”

    Question for everyone, have you worked places that decorate for new colleagues/hires?

    I have heard stories before but not sure exactly how popular it is. I’m not hanging streamers or anything that crazy, just hung a “Welcome” banner and am debating one of those candy arrangements they make now at the store.

    1. acmx*

      Parts of my company does (we are a large employer). Up to that new hire’s team on how much. But we also have a day long orientation that’s kind of like a big welcome.

      1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

        Ah that’s a good point to, I can see where it depends on the size and the departments.

        I’m so used to being just one big ass team. We don’t have orientation or anything like that. It’s all instant training.

    2. Daughter of Ada and Grace*

      We have a chalkboard wall in our office – a welcome message gets written there when we have new hires (and sometimes office visitors, but not all of them).

      1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

        I want a chalkboard wall…

        I’m getting a letter board when we move…so I should be pleased but now I want a chalkboard wall.

  185. Leela*

    Any luck getting people to enter their time? I have timesheet approval duties for a staff of 70+ and it’s always an enormous struggle because people either don’t enter their hours and then everything has to be e-mailed and re-checked after the fact, or they make nonsense entries despite numerous communications not to do so (like adding hours they forgot on their last paycheck, entering one type of work that pays X as a different type of work that pays Y, etc).

    An extra challenge is that where I work, most of these people have this job as a second, “hobby” job because it’s in a cool industry. This means we’re severely hemmed in from doing things a manager could normally do because unfortunately, they could easily bounce and be very hard to replace if we tried to pull anything (and how would we even, when they come in for like 3 hours a week? Am I going to write them up? To what end??) and ontop of that, our company has switched to a payroll software that is truly horrible, I completely understand why the staff is avoiding it. It’s an enormous pain that’s full of show-stopping bugs and we’ve had people refuse to use it all in addition to quit citing the payroll software as their reason.

    Any advice would be much appreciated!

    1. CatCat*

      It sounds like the software is a significant barrier to people doing this correctly or doing it at all. Possible solution, which I recognize is not the most awesome: could most of the staff uses something simple to enter time like a spreadsheet, punch clock, or even just a paper form, and then could 2 or 3 people have the job of entering the time into the troublesome software?

      1. Leela*

        Oh trust me we’ve asked. The system has absolutely tanked and we are constantly bringing problems up to HR. They switched to this without consulting any of the managers until it was too late to reverse and even if it had worked like it was supposed to (it doesn’t), we still would have told them right away that it makes no sense for our teams and would cause significant problems.

        At the moment they have no intention of removing it and seem to think that if I’m just like, SO super awesome at management then obviously everyone will fall in line (keep in mind a good 80-90% of these people I have never met face to face nor will I because of when our shifts are, and even if I stayed late to meet them they have to start working as soon as they get here and the job is not one where they could step away to talk to me nor one where I could talk to them while they are working). The resounding response from everyone above us is a sympathetic smile followed by inaction and avoiding us, it’s incredibly frustrating.

      2. Leela*

        Oh I realize I didn’t answer your question about having 2 or 3 people enter the time into the software and the answer is, not really. They have us at a workload that is based on payroll taking a given amount of time, that we are already currently way, WAY over. This is based on how long the last payroll software processing took. Currently we are only allowed to have one person per team doing the payroll approving (and it’s not something we could go around, I mean literally only one of us actually has access to the system in the first place), and I simply don’t have the bandwidth to drop all of the duties I was actually hired for. Payroll and HR have been telling us to be patient for almost an entire year now, with no improvements in sight, and they also don’t have any plan (or even any way) to deal with the fact that at this point, a lot of the problem is that the end users just won’t use it properly. We can barely even get them to read their e-mails because this isn’t their main job

    2. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      It sounds like you have no teeth to really have consequences here. They do this because they can, they get away with it, they have no reason to pay attention to the details when it wont’ result in being disciplined or anything. Pretty typical for when you have that kind of workforce, where they don’t even need you back!

      So I’d go with “be a pest. be a thorn in their side.” route, but do it with a smile and destroy them with your cheerful pestering.

      Also is there any way to get an incentive program? If you don’t have time card issues for a month or quarter or whatever, you get a Starbucks gift card or something? People love to “earn” things for doing basic duties like time keeping and you know, showing up *sigh*

  186. Bex*

    I passed out at work and had to leave in an ambulance … how do I recover?

    I’d been dealing with a low level migraine since Monday, and I wasn’t eating much of anything – because I get sick to my stomach easily and puking with a migraine is ten times worse than just having a migraine. Well, yesterday I got up from a meeting to make a call, and low blood sugar got me and I passed out.

    My coworkers were great, did basic first aid, called the site’s emergency response team (we’re a fully functioning mine and production facility), but because no one saw me drop – just heard the thump – and I had some bad nausea (okay, I was dry heaving a lot), the decision was made to get me checked out in an ER to rule out concussion, any internal bleeding, etc.

    I’m fine, everything is okay, the ER ran some tests and did scans and came back to “yeah, you passed out because of low blood sugar likely. No issues to worry about but keep an eye on things.”

    Now I go back Monday. I’m so embarrassed. I threw up on my work shirt (which was removed, so coworkers saw me in my camisole), and beyond that I just … ugh. I was weak and had a humiliating moment of weakness in front of everyone.

    How do I recover? How do I not make this an awkward thing? How do I assure them I’m okay? And how do I politely shut down any potential worry going forward about my health?

    I’m also the only woman in the department. And there’s this weird fear that this will somehow be a gendered thing even though I have zero basis for that (just decades of dealing with bizarre stuff due to my gender in predominantly male work spaces).

    1. Anna of Cleveden*

      You were not weak, you were sick, and there’s nothing humiliating about that. No decent human being who saw what happened will think any less of you for it. They’ll be concerned for you, but you can just reassure them that it wasn’t serious, you got checked out and are fine. Thank the people who helped, be matter of fact and straightforward with anyone who brings it up, and try not to worry. It’s not as big a deal to anyone else as it feels to you, I promise.

      1. valentine*

        Treat it like it was an ordinary Tuesday. “I’m fine. Thanks (for helping).”

        A camisole is pretty good. Plenty of coverage.

        The biggest concern is you didn’t go home sick or lie down in the dark until you could.

    2. Diatryma*

      I lean toward thanking the people who helped you and assuring everyone that the procedures they followed were appropriate and you’re fine. Kind of a full-frontal assault of cheerful, “Hey, it worked!” for the emergency response team.

    3. Leela*

      I’m certain that there’s nothing you should be embarrassed about (though I do conceded that if it were me I likely would be!) Your coworkers will either be worried about you (correct) or find it embarrassing (incorrect and I imagine most everyone you work with you think worse of them than of you!).

      Being the only woman here could come in to play but that’s hard to say without a deeper knowledge of your workplace. Hopefully people will mostly ask to make sure you’re okay and then go about business as usual after you say that you are, maybe be prepared for some well-meaning overbearingness though

    4. revueller*

      So sorry this happened to you! But honestly the best thing you can do is to not make it a big deal. Thank the people who helped you out — don’t apologize. If you feel pressed to give an explanation, just say you were dealing with some health symptoms that cascaded into you not eating and as a result, passing out.

      The not-eating detail might draw some weird reactions — out of a place of kindness, but still not always productive. However, I’d recommend including it because that makes clear that it was a normal, one-off thing. Low blood sugar is a common thing to happen, and it’s only going to happen again if you don’t eat again.

      Also, prepare for people sharing their own passing-out stories. Best of luck!

    5. Alianora*

      I haven’t passed out at work, but I did faint once at a public event attended by a lot of people I know (mostly male, as it happens). It was a little embarrassing, but people were fine about it and acted completely normal afterward, once I explained that I was fine and there was no need to worry going forward.

    6. Alex*

      No one thinks of you as weak because you had a medical emergency (and even though you are fine and it wasn’t anything serious, passing out and puking on yourself are medical emergencies, at least in the absence of a certain amount of vodka).

      Unless your coworkers are complete assholes, they’re just glad you’re OK and probably won’t even think about it too much once they know it was nothing to be worried about.

  187. Rachel 2: Electric Boogaloo*

    I’m applying for a job, and the application requires me to list the dates I attended college in the education section. (Worded as from: xx/xxxx to: xx/xxxx) My problem is this: I took a five-year hiatus between the time I started college and the time I returned to school (same institution, no transfer involved) and finished my degree. There is no way to indicate that in this field. When I listed dates on my resume, I would list it as 8/1991-5/1995; 1/2001-12/2001. Putting just one of those date ranges wouldn’t be accurate. I could put from 8/1991 to 12/2001, but I wasn’t there for all 10 years, and if they verify dates with the school, they’ll easily see that and I’ll look like a liar.

    Normally when dates for education are required like this, I won’t even bother filling out the application. However, this is a job I think I have a real shot at, and I have someone on the inside advocating for me, so I can’t just skip applying.

    What do I do here?

    1. CatCat*

      Is there a way to enter more than one college, but just name the same college again then enter the dates that way. Like:

      College X
      1/2001-12/2001

      College X
      8/1991-5/1995

    2. Alianora*

      If catcat’s suggestion doesn’t work, I think you’re probably ok entering 1991-2001, actually. Do you have a resume you can also upload with the correct dates? It seems likely to me that once an actual human looks at it, they’ll most likely look at the resume for that info.

      Another option, could you ask the person who’s advocating for you the best way to approach this?

  188. Aggretsuko*

    Well, last week I was told how horrible I was for over an hour. Then I proceeded to get sick (not coronavirus) and have been out all week. Except for the coughing, it’s been pretty great not to be there. However, according to the news, very bad things are happening at work right now, so that’s a fucking joy. My job is going to be an absolute disaster even more than it usually is.

  189. Anon here for this*

    Any tips for dealing with people with personalities where you have to walk on eggshells? The person that I work directly with runs hot and cold. He can be outright hostile and nasty. I try only talking about work with him, but it seems like my other colleagues have picked up on this and it’s been awkward. (They seem uneasy?) Some days he’s more social than others and he’s fun to talk with, but it doesn’t last long.

    It’s been wearing on me and making me upset because I spend long days/hours at work. (We often work overtime and weekends.)

    Does anyone have any advice on how to not take things so personally? Any options for dealing with it until I find a new position and leave?

    1. revueller*

      Your coworkers acting strange for you limiting your interactions with Eggshells seems odd. Are you an otherwise close team where your treatment of him would be noticeable? Do they not get the same treatment from him?

      I’m sorry you’re going through this. The best advice I can give is to give yourself permission to not care what he thinks of you. It’s perfectly normal to only talk work with your coworkers, and it’s perfectly normal to be closer to some coworkers than others. You’re under no obligation to interact with Eggshells anymore than you need to for work. If it’s not affecting your work or their work, it shouldn’t be your coworkers’ concern.. If you feel the need to engage in polite conversation for survival reasons, it’s perfectly fine to let a conversation trail off if Eggshells starts laying debris again.

      Best of luck!

      1. Anon here for this*

        Thank you for your advice. Maybe I seem nervous or upset, and they can tell? I don’t know. He gives them a little attitude sometimes, but it seems like I get it worse because they would push back/ not take it from him. (They have more seniority than I do, so they can.)

        1. revueller*

          Can you trust them to be discreet and helpful? If so, I’d ask them for advice in how they navigate Eggshells. I’d especially do so if they’ve openly pushed back against him in front of you. Even if they don’t have great advice, the solidarity they’ll likely provide might be helpful.

          If they don’t think he’s acting hostile, then you have a team problem, unfortunately. I doubt that’s the case though if they’ve pushed back against him.

          Regardless, this is very much a “him” problem and not a “you” problem. Remind yourself that. You’re not causing the attitude. Even if it seems like actions and events around him are causing him to react viciously, he can control his reaction. He chooses not to.

          The best thing you can do is to keep yourself frosty around him, even when he’s being Fun Eggshells as opposed to Vicious Eggshells.

  190. Half April Ludgate, Half Leslie Knope*

    I’ve only been at my job for a few months, and I think I discovered a HIPAA compliance issue with a display that honors certain deceased former patients. My boss expressed concern about it, I asked the team that manages it what their family approval process was, and I’m pretty sure it’s lacking.

    The display has been up for over ten years. I’m worried if I point out the issue I’m either going to a. become “that girl” in the hospital, or b. give everyone a giant headache.

    There’s really no world where I don’t tell my boss about this, because…HIPAA, but does anyone have any advice on how to basically be the new person upending a tradition without becoming the fun killer?

    2. revueller*

      If your boss expressed concern about it, bring up your concerns to them and let them be the fun-killer. If they want you to take initiative and bring up the problem to the managing team yourself, express your concern about being so new and cultivating a reputation for being pushy early on. Your boss should understand. If they still insist that you be the fun-killer, well, you may have to be that girl.

      I’d also advise that you run it by your hospital’s legal resources if you can, because they should know best about if and how this violates the law. You also get the bonus of letting them be the fun-killer, and their approach will also be more definitive (and hopefully effective).

      Best of luck from someone who’s definitely navigated this tension before (although not expressly with HIPAA).

    3. Rectilinear Propagation*

      I like revueller’s answer but wanted to add that this doesn’t have to be a fun killer.

      It might require going back to these families for the correct permission, but updating the honors for these patients for the 10 year anniversary of this program could be interesting. Assuming the folks in charge of this would be interested in getting new photos/info for the display, the fun could still be preserved.

      1. Half April Ludgate, Half Leslie Knope*

        Thanks to all! I don’t want to reveal more details about how the display looks, etc. to ensure privacy (irony) but this is all helpful! I have a meeting with my boss tomorrow, I’ll bring the concern up there and hope he runs with it.

  191. revueller*

    I’m writing this from a place of frustration, so bear with me.

    My line of work — let’s call it horse-whispering — requires a lot of concentration and quiet to get things done. I’m lucky to work in a shared office with other horse whisperers (as opposed to people who need to buy the horses we whisper to). Unfortunately, one of those whisperers (“Tom”) is an industrious employee who happens to be very loud with everything he does.

    He snacks constantly. He clears his throat every ten minutes. He giggles when someone sends him a funny Slack message. His voice is very sonorous and audible through my noise canceling headphones. He uses the loudest mechanical keyboard I’ve ever heard. Most recently, he started singing to himself at his desk.

    That’s not including the coworkers he’s friends with, who also have loud, sonorous voices. This only takes up 10% of the day, but horse-whispering requires listening to audio carefully, and my ADHD makes concentration difficult as is.

    I’ve asked twice about the throat clearing as privately and gently as possible. He was very apologetic, and that got the throat clearing down to every 30-60 minutes. I’ve asked in the moment to keep voices down when coworkers visit. They’ve apologized but didn’t reduce their volume at all.

    I’ve resorted to getting my work done with a set of earplugs underneath my over-the-ear headphones with white noise running in the background. The only thing stopping me from moving desks myself is that (a) We have assigned desks to “maximize cross team collaboration” so I can’t move myself without my manager’s permission. (b) Our office is open and used by a mix of horse whisperers and horse acquirers. The horse acquirers have to be both loud and be far away from each other, so they capitalize on all the quiet space we have. Also, I really like my desk! (c) I’ve previously complained about my previous room, where my very nice coworkers spent half their time conversation and then complaining about not getting their work done. My current office is a HUGE improvement on that, and I can’t tell if the next room I’d move into will be any better.

    Is this actually a situation where it’s worth moving again? Or should I suck it up as Typical Corporate Environment Where Everyone Makes Some Amount of Annoying Noise?

    1. Rectilinear Propagation*

      Any chance working from home would work? I’d think even a few days a week would be helpful.

      But I think asking him not to sing and use a quieter keyboard would be reasonable too. (Assume the throat clearing isn’t something he can eliminate entirely. If something is bothering his throat that often then he’s likely trying/tried to do something about it.)

      1. revueller*

        Our company’s WFH policy is notoriously stringent so we only get one day to WFH if we exceed our monthly metrics. I have that benefit thankfully, but achieving it again while working in the office the other four days is difficult — even I can’t do all my work in one day!

        Yeah, the keyboard is probably the biggest irritant at this point, so I’ll inquire about that. It’s provided by the office and absolutely could be replaced by a nicer (and quieter!) model. I’d even be willing to do research to find the best fit. :D

        1. valentine*

          Any reason he’d want to drive you out?

          Ask him to take the visitors elsewhere.

          Is it possible to move the acquirers to a different room?

  192. Z*

    Any recommendations for an online time management class? Or in-person in the DC/MD/VA area. While I appreciate strategies and tips, I think I need the structure of an actual class in order to make sure I go through all the steps (which I think speaks to my need for a time management class in the first place…).

  193. Rectilinear Propagation*

    I had been waiting for Friday to post about something else but then I saw THIS:

    https://workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/154085/someone-on-my-team-is-sending-bigoted-emails-to-another-member-on-my-team

    – It’s been going on for 4 months
    – HR’s response to full blown racial slurs is to do basically nothing
    – IT insists there’s nothing they can do???
    – 4 months!!

    Pro-tip: If you’re going to read the answers then make sure they’re sorted by votes and don’t go below a positive score.

  194. Anony Mouse*

    The thing I hate the most about applying for grad school is having to bother people for recommendation letters. It’s one thing if I have to do extra work as the person choosing to undergo the application process, but I feel guilty creating extra work for/imposing on other people. I can put forth the best application and try to do as well I can on any interviews, but ultimately the final decision lies with the schools (and I know there’s always lots of other applicants). Besides just being rejected by everywhere I apply (which would really suck a lot, but there’s always reapplying the next application cycle), I’d be also ashamed to admit as such to the recommenders after they took the time to fill out a recommendation for me. I’m also afraid that they might feel like doing the recommendation for me was a waste of time and even if I enhance my own credentials, the people who submitted a letter on my behalf this time might not want to do it again.

    I don’t know…am I just overthinking it? I put on a strong face for everyone else (and I’m always courteous when requesting recommendations, make it clear they can say no, and try to make things as easy as possible for them to the extent I can and thank them profusely), but these kinds of thoughts still weigh on me.

    1. revueller*

      A lot of professors and managers consider making references and recommendation letters a part of their job! Not only is it completely normal, it’s absolutely expected to be a part of their workload. You’re not imposing on them at all! And if any of them make you feel guilty about it, that’s because they’re nasty people. It’s not at all a reflection on you.

      Rejection is also extremely normal in your recommenders’ eyes. They have very likely experienced a ton of it in hundreds of ways themselves. They’ll be very excited for you if you get accepted to places, but they certainly won’t feel like it was a waste of time if you don’t.

      Also, do you have access to professional counseling resources? They may be helpful if you regularly feel like you’re a burden for asking for things like this. I only say this because I recognize your thought patterns in myself and in my friends who have anxiety; I do not mean to armchair diagnose and you have no obligation to reveal any medical stuff to a stranger online. But if you haven’t thought of that, it might be beneficial.

    2. Ranon*

      I think you are over thinking it! When I applied to grad school my recommenders actually put in more time than I ever expected them too, one made time to have a phone call with me to discuss where I was applying, what I had been doing and what I was looking for in a grad school and the other took a fair bit of time to review my application materials as she was writing her letter. People want you to do well, and writing about how awesome other people are isn’t a bad gig on the whole and certainly is part of the job for the folks you’re asking.

    3. Tiberia*

      As someone who writes lots of recommendation letters as part of my job, I hereby officially absolve you of worrying about this.

      Seriously, it’s part of my job. I don’t resent doing it, I’m not feeling used or taken advantage of when someone asks, and I don’t feel like I wasted my time if an application is unsuccessful. I know how the system works, and I don’t expect every applicant (or any applicant!) to succeed the first time they apply. As long as they are polite and helpful when asking for the recommendation I am always happy to do it. I expect to do a certain number of these each year as part of my job, so it’s not creating extra work for me.

      Basically yeah, you’re overthinking it ;) Which is understandable – grad school applications are a morass of overthinking so this is completely normal. But try to let it go if you can – this isn’t anything to worry about. We’re here to help.

    4. Delta Delta*

      I like writing recommendation letters for students. I don’t have a lot of students and they don’t all ask, but I like the exercise of saying nice things about the ones who ask.

    5. Reliquary*

      You’re seriously overthinking here.
      Part of my job is writing letters of rec for students who have earned them. Period.
      Most students are not going to be admitted to every grad school to which they apply. Some will not be admitted anywhere. That’s just the way academia works.
      All any recommender would really like to know is where the student ended up — whether it is at University Z, or whether it is taking a year off, with potential to reapply in the future. If you’re going to reapply in the future, be sure to send your recommenders an updated CV to show what you’ve done to make yourself a better applicant at that time.

  195. Delta Delta*

    Is it worth it to reach out to a school’s career services when you get an especially bad resume and cover letter? Background: my spouse is a lawyer. His firm recently advertised a position. He received a resume and cover letter from a young graduate that are SO BAD it is embarrassing. The applicant went to the same law school as my spouse, and he’s concerned that students there are getting next to no guidance. Highlights:

    Cover letter says “cover letter” in the header
    Resume says “Fergus Warblesworth’s Resume” in the header
    The resume includes his hobbies. From high school.
    The cover letter prominently lists his prior experience working for an attorney who was disbarred, and names that person by name. The legal community in our area is fairly small; everyone knows this person got disbarred recently.

    Sigh.

    1. KoiFeeder*

      Honestly, IME, college career services are so bad that actually using them can hamper your ability to get a job. I think it would be kind of your spouse to reach out to the college and say that they pretty heavily failed a graduate who applied for a position at the firm, but I wouldn’t expect it to do anything.

      I’m gonna hunt down the link of an email I posted about in here from my undergrad school’s career services which was just hideously awful to show you what I mean.

    2. Notthemomma*

      Um, yes reach out. Nothing says change course like ‘I’m afraid your placements will go down which will impact alumni donations’. Hopefully this is a one-off, but the schools reputation will always be tied to your husband, so it is also self preservation.

  196. Lauren P.*

    Any tips for improving one’s time management? I’m not sure if I have too much work or if I just fail at getting it all done in the time alotted, but I’d like to make sure I’m taking a proactive approach either way before it becomes an issue.

    1. Taking The Long Way Round*

      I make a list of what I have to do and when it needs to be done for, then prioritise it in that way.

      I plan in my calendar and my diary what I’m going when in quite a lot of detail e.g. instead of writing “office day for admin” in, I’ll write what I’m doing in 1-2hr blocks, then try to stick to it. I include a bit of a buffer with each section because a) stuff sometimes takes longer than I think it will and b) that way, if something urgent comes up I get to deal with it there and then and whatever is on the calendar gets pushed back, but not so much that it goes into the next day (usually).

      I take 15 minutes at the end of the day to sort my next day’s calendar and make sure I’m prepared. I don’t work right up until it’s time to go home, then shut everything down!

      I’m very good at sticking to my hours. If I work extra one week, I’ll take back what I’m owed the next week.
      I take my breaks during the day.

      I also accept that the kind of job I’m in means I’ll never get down to the bottom of the pile. There’s always something to do!
      I’ve also accepted that the job I do is very good, and that’s good enough and that it doesn’t need to be perfect to be effective.

      I balance my life outside of work too with hobbies and rest and exercise and friendships etc.

      I learnt all this after having a nervous breakdown with work stress. Never again. I pay attention to my health now.

  197. Apparent Sabotagee*

    Hey all, so I had a bit of a disturbing thing happen at work today. A supervisor in another department doesn’t like me, which isn’t news to me but I figured we work in different areas so fine. However, one of my coworkers in my department (who is also my direct supervisor’s sister) came into my office, closed the door, and warned me that that supervisor apparently “has it out” for me and to be careful as he is apparently planning on trying to sabotage me including giving a few direct examples of things she thinks he’ll do. So that’s already enough to freak me out a bit, but then after lunch she goes into a meeting with a bunch of supervisors and she now appears to no longer be with the company. What if anything should I do, and how freaked should I be? I’m considering emailing HR with the details of what she thinks he’ll do to have it on record but I’m not certain.

    1. WellRed*

      Your coworker is supervised by her sister?? Anyhow, I’m not sure why you wouldn’t talk your supervisor about this, not HR. Has sister coworker been a problem or shit stirrer or is she reliable and a good worker? This other supervisor in theory has no power over you. Am I missing something?

      1. Apparent Sabotagee*

        The company is really messed up like that, my supervisor directly oversees two of her sisters (one of which is involved in this) and the problem supervisor directly oversees his brother. There’s a lot of “keep business in the family” kind of stuff even though there’s over 100 employees, it’s one of the reasons I’m planning on getting out eventually regardless.

        As far as I know the sister coworker hasn’t been a shit stirrer but she has been criticized for months by problem supervisor for one particular issue, which is says is absolutely not her doing it (and is one of the things she warned problem supervisor will try to set me up with). He’s not my direct supervisor and I’m not in his department, but apparently in this company if one supervisor doesn’t like you then you’re pretty screwed, others have been fired on what they’ve described as basically nothing accusations just to get them out the door.

        1. Maeve*

          I don’t know how to solve this but if you do get lumbered with the problem issue, make sure you document all your work, send follow up emails for tasks ( so there’s a paper trail).

    2. Blue Eagle*

      I wouldn’t send a blind e-mail to HR as the first step. Rather, I would go and talk to someone in HR and see what they think and perhaps send the e-mail as a follow-up to document the conversation with HR. The idea of going to your supervisor first is iffy depending on whether or not you think your supervisor would have your back. Any chance there is someone higher up in your workplace that you could talk to for some guidance on a next step to take? (Which is one reason why I also jumped at the chance to work cross-department to get to know other people who could be mentors for me in this type of situation).

      1. Apparent Sabotagee*

        I’d be pretty uncomfortable bringing this to my direct supervisor since her sister’s involved, and I don’t really know the supervisors in the other departments very well which is why I felt like HR was my best option. They keep the tiers of the company very split off, I’ve had very little interaction with anyone above the supervisor level and don’t know who is directly above them. There’s only one person who works in HR, I’ll see about meeting them in person rather than the blind email though, thanks

        1. valentine*

          If the person who warned you no longer works there, why is it dangerous to tell your supervisor?

          I wouldn’t trust the sister and, if the guy does the stuff, won’t you need your supervisor’s help?

  198. Anon for this*

    Posting solely to rant:
    I have a colleague/friend who has mentioned before how he is frustrated by the fact that career progression goes through management. What he means by this is is that there’s no public ally available document being like ‘For x grade you must have y responsibilities’. To get promoted you have to either be obviously so good it just happens, or to talk to your manager about the progression path. There’s an extra layer of difficulty there in that he’s not got on with some of managers he’s had previously so seems to view it as quite combative (‘why should I have to talk to one person to get promoted?!’). Whilst I do think it would be better for info to be published widely I also think that your manager being broadly responsible for your development is just not that unusual, and said so. In his frustration he ended up basically saying the reason the company makes it hard to get promoted is that they don’t care about white men. I am the only female manager at my site – and yes there are occasional women’s events put on by the company but having been to these I can assure you they are broadly crap and put all responsibility for sexism in tech at the door of the women themselves (‘you just need to be more confident and put yourselves forwards for new roles!!!!’ Type thing). This combined with the strong insinuation I’d been promoted through being female… I had to leave through anger >.<
    We’ve sort of made up through text – but I am honestly still so upset and frustrated that I really was trying to help and ended up feeling personally insulted. Urgh….

    1. Fikly*

      His notion that this is somehow against white men is nonsense, but having clear guidelines for what is needed to be promoted is an excellent standard to have. It shouldn’t be a mystery, and it shouldn’t be at a manager’s discretion – that just leads to favoratism and bias. The manager’s job should be evaluating if an employee has met those guidelines.

    2. Buttons*

      JFC. The privelaged view equality for others as oppression of themselves. the need for clearly defined behavioral indicators and skills for level increases and promotions are the right thing to have, but it is to protect everyone, not to descrimintate against the white man.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Ironic, eh? The very thing that is holding him back is also causing a problem in your friendship.

      In a calmer moment perhaps you can suggest his anger is getting in the way of being promoted. I think it’s okay to say, “I was trying to help and I ended up feeling insulted.”

      Usually when people get angry like this there is no getting them down off the ceiling. You could try saying, “It’s either figure out how to be less angry OR realize that this job just isn’t cutting it for you anymore.”

  199. CC*

    Hey y’all, I’m hoping to get some advice on how to handle a conversation with an employee that didn’t go real well today.

    This employee — call him Bob — owns a project for my team that has been going on for a month and is culminating tomorrow morning. This is a routine project and he’s done five other projects like this in the past six months, which have all gone fine. We’ve been checking in about it regularly, I’ve been asking him questions to get under the skin of how he’s approaching it and issuing minor course-corrections as needed, but he generally seemed to have it under control. Yesterday when we checked in about it he assured me all was well, and gave me good answers when I poked some holes in his approach that made me confident he’d really thought it through.

    Today he let me know, very last-minute, that he wasn’t sure he could meet the main goal of the project because of a hiccup he identified on Monday but didn’t think was a problem until today (which he had earlier assured me was not an issue). I asked him what he wanted to do and he said “you’ll need to figure it out for me, I need to go offline in 10 minutes.” I explained I could help him brainstorm pathways but ultimately he needed to make the decision and execute on it (he knows MUCH more about the specific work than I do).

    His response was ‘I can’t deal with this right now so I need to understand what the consequences are going to be if I abandon this project now, don’t come up with an alternative, and we miss the external deadline.’ I said “that would be a really big deal because of X reasons. It would raise questions for me about your ability to lead future projects like this — we’ll start with a serious conversation on Monday about what happened and I’ll need to think more about where we go from there.”

    He then said I was setting him up to fail, he doesn’t see it as a problem if he abandons it, reiterated that someone else should take this over from him now, said I was “refusing to support him,” but eventually agreed to think it over for 10 minutes and let me know what his decision was.

    He emailed me 10 mins later saying “I think we should proceed as planned since I am not going to come up with an alternative at this point. You insinuated that we might need to have a ‘serious conversation’ on Monday. I hope that doesn’t need to happen.”

    I should add this person is early-career, has been struggling, and I just got approval today to start on a performance improvement pathway next week for him based on other issues in his results. So it’s not like this is an example of ‘high performer panics over a routine project because something else might be going on’ — this is the most extreme example by far (and I’ve created low-stakes accountability on the more minor instances — the “what happened?” conversation), but it’s not uncharacteristic behavior for him. I’m just utterly baffled by his behavior and I have no idea where to go from here.

    I would welcome any feedback on how I handled this conversation (I’ve been told I can be “too harsh” or “too direct”), and any suggestions about how to handle this going forward. Roll this into the PIP? Have a separate conversation about it? Given this was both a results issue (i.e. he didn’t take an early problem seriously until it was too late to fix) and a behavior issue (giving up, asking me to cover for him, and then laying on the snark in his follow up), I’m not sure which pieces to address.

    What a lovely way to end a Friday :).

    1. MissBliss*

      Oooh, I think I would focus on the behavior stuff. Results are serious– ultimately more serious– but when you’re early career, it takes some time to discover what are problems that warrant bringing up and what are problems that aren’t elevated to that level yet. Sometimes, even experienced people still get it wrong. So I would mention it, but I would focus on the behavior issues. Something like “Bob, we all make mistakes sometimes, but it’s important that we learn from those mistakes. From your behavior, I’m seeing an unwillingness to take ownership of the problem and learn from your mistakes, and that’s a serious concern.”

    2. Mad Harry Crewe*

      Definitely this should go in the PIP. You should probably also have a separate conversation about it. My PIP conversations are usually along the lines of “here’s what I’m seeing, here’s what I need, here’s why I think you can do it, here’s the consequences if you can’t” (with space for conversation/questions/rebuttal, obvs). A separate conversation would let you focus on exactly what happened, why it’s not ok to just throw up your hands at a big problem, and how to handle both the roadbump and the late-breaking problems next time.

      If you can, I’d have the separate conversation first, and then follow up with the PIP a day or two later. In terms of flow, it makes sense to start with an isolated event and then move on to the bigger pattern/big picture conversation. It can also help guard against him blowing you off (internally or out loud) with ‘we already talked about this, what more do you want?’

    3. Blue Eagle*

      Oh dear, I can’t imagine a situation of an employee saying “you’ll need to figure it out for me, I need to go offline in 10 minutes . . . . I can’t deal with this now” on a project where there is a tight external deadline and having no consequences. I get that the job isn’t always the #1 thing in your life, but abandoning a deadline project by saying you are up and leaving in 10 minutes without a plan to work tomorrow and get it just and just expect that the boss can bail you out – – – well, don’t expect that raise, don’t expect a promotion, expect that you will get all of the lowest level projects, etc, and maybe even will be let go. Particularly in this case where there are other reasons to put him on a PIP. Sorry that you have to deal with this.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      Oh boy.
      I think we’d still have that conversation on Monday.

      1) Saying “I can’t deal with it right now” and “you need to figure it out for me” are things that cannot be said unless the explanation involves a full body cast or a burning building. If he has an emergency he needs to briefly state what the emergency is. Other than that it’s HIS job to deal with it right now and HE has to figure it out. That is what he is paid for.

      2) Identifying a hiccup on Monday, saying it’s not an issue and waiting to Friday to say it’s a big problem is called falling down on the job. Hiccups need to be identified immediately and an alternate plan needs to be made. So this should have been taken care of on Monday.

      3) Under the heading of things we will never discuss again: It’s not okay to abandon a project. It’s not okay to ignore deadlines. It’s not okay to withhold information from you and then accuse you of setting him up to fail and not supporting him. “If these statements happen again then it will be a write up because this is a failure to do your job.”

      I am harsh. No matter what you say to this guy, he will accuse you of being harsh. I bet you actually want him to work the time he is paid for, too. Gosh you are tough. ;)

      Plan out what you want him to do. Don’t cuss, don’t raise your voice, all that stuff. Be sure to say that you are asking nothing more of him than you do everyone else. Everyone else meets deadlines, everyone else does not abandon their projects, etc.
      Then let him know the PIP has started for other reasons, X, Y and Z.

      He realizes he went too far. If you back off now, he will just try to push harder the next time. He needs boundaries.

      1. CC*

        Thanks everyone for the input, this is all super helpful! I’ve decided to have a conversation with him today specifically about this incident (using many of the talking points y’all armed me with) and then roll out the PIP a bit later this week.

  200. Candy*

    Anyone have any stories of, or tips for, negotiating the pay grade for a union position in an academic institution?

  201. MissBliss*

    I’ve been in my job almost a year, and the person who essentially does the other half of my job was hired a month later, but left after just a few months. We’ve done a few rounds of interviews but never anyone viable. FINALLY we have a batch of multiple- SIX!- qualified candidates and so far, first round interviews have been scheduled with five of them. It will be a huge relief when we get someone into this position. I haven’t had to pick up all the slack, but what I haven’t has been picked up by my boss, with no one to pick up her slack. It is going to be an absolute delight to have a new person in the office. I just hope I don’t scare them away with the number of projects I can’t wait to get started on now!

  202. M2B*

    How should I handle telling my manager that I’m not comfortable traveling to a huge conference (>45k people) due the coronavirus? I am pregnant and haven’t told my managers yet, and the uncertainty regarding the spread and severity of the coronavirus coupled with my increased susceptibility to illness in general has me quite concerned. Many other conferences have been canceled… but this one, which attracts attendees from all over the US and world, has not. I am supposed to staff our booth and give demos (along with about 20 coworkers,) which means interacting with lots of people is inevitable. Help! Any recommendations for how to approach this?

    1. At risk now, not then*

      It is recommended that people “at risk” should not travel and should not be on airplanes or crowds. If you need to get a Dr.note. This is exactly that kind of situation. Years ago during the SARS situation, publishers gave their staff the choice whether to go to the American Library Association conference in Toronto. I subbed for someone who was supposed to speak from the Library of Congress but the U.S. had shut down travel because of SARS.

  203. CatLadyInTraining*

    What do you do about bitter co workers who act like they get treated as the lowest of the low, but they don’t?

      1. CatLadyInTraining*

        Yep! It’s funny they keep saying they’re being treated like peasants and how no one at the company cares about them…ugh, who cares?

    2. Not So NewReader*

      You really can’t do anything about it. If you try to tell them they are not in misery, you will become part of their problem. And they could make it their goal to make you miserable.

      I will say when there are several people who are bitter, I have found that there can be justifiable reasons. So keeping an open mind might be wise.

      For the immediate, when they complain to you, you can just shrug and say, “I gotta eat.” Or “I gotta have a roof over my head.” Your disinterest might cause them to go somewhere else with their complaints.

      I have been in situations where I basically agreed with them but their complaining made the place even worse in my mind. So what I said was, “If I complain too much then the job becomes ten times harder to me. So I am just trying to push through it.”

  204. Video Interview*

    Hi all – any experiences / tips you can share about video interviews? I have one next week, it’s the kind where I record my answers, there isn’t a live interaction. It’s an initial screening, but it’s expected to last over an hour..it’s for a pretty specialized position in STEM. I already got advice from a few friends, but this forum always has such a wealth of knowledge that I thought it’s wise to ask.

  205. Castlemotif*

    We had large-scale layoffs, which I’ve never experienced before, and it was terrible. I am still employed, but I was emotionally unprepared for it to affect people I had known for years but who were in the wrong place at the wrong time. I keep thinking I see them in the office and I have even had some dreams about them. It’s real grief!

  206. Amethyst*

    Late night thoughts: I’ve come to the realization that I really should be further along in my career than I currently am & I’m very uncomfortable with this. I started out in retail, switched to banking, then got laid off right when the recession hit so I was out of work for about 5 years, although I did volunteer jobs here & there in the hopes it’d lead me to a paying job. Then I was caring for my paternal grandmother for 3.5 years & that ended with me suicidal & leaving with PTSD (I’m fine now, but PTSD is a real bear), & finally picked up a retail job that guaranteed no hours except “a minimum of 3 hours/day you’re scheduled to work”, which resulted in $35-50 paychecks (usually scheduled 1-2 4 hour shifts per week outside of holidays & major sales) while caring for the woman. Then it was back to a different retail job, & finally shifted out of retail altogether 4 years ago.

    Considering all this, the only fulltime job I’ve ever had is the bank job. Remembering my salary then & comparing to now, I’m still earning the same as I was back then (just barely over $20k/year). This is ridiculous. Anyone have any advice? I am looking, but I want to be picky for once as I haven’t really been able to be given the above history, & I definitely want to at least double my current salary. Also, why is it so difficult to find a fulltime job? I’ve been having to take whatever’s offered to me, & that’s only ever been parttime.

    1. Colette*

      That sounds hard. Is networking an option for you? If you can, talking with people who have the kind of jobs you want and asking advice about your resume, etc. might be helpful.

      What kinds of jobs are you looking for? Are you writing solid cover letters that explain why you want that job and why you’d be good at it?

      1. Amethyst*

        Not really. I’ve lost touch with everyone I used to work with with the exception of my last job. It’s been over a decade for the rest, & I don’t want my current job knowing I’m searching. They’re a large healthcare network. Comparing my current & last jobs here to others demanding similar skills, they’re underpaying us by at least $5-10/hour–possibly more for other positions. I didn’t know it at the time (I tend to “not my monkeys, not my circus” things at work) but it was recently brought to my attention that my company is very well-known in industry circles for underpaying its employees.

    2. The Other Dawn*

      I’m a longtime banker. What position did you hold when you worked at the bank? Were you a teller or back office? If you’re open to it, I’d try going back into banking and getting into a back office job. If you were a teller, that experience can be really helpful when making the transition into the back office and is often enough to get you into an entry-level back office job like deposit operations, especially if you apply to a small local community bank or credit union; it would likely be more difficult at one of the big banks (Bank of America, Chase, etc.). Unless you’re willing to take part time temporarily, I probably wouldn’t apply for a teller job, as those tend to be part time.

  207. DoctorateStrange*

    I have spoken before here about working as a library assistant in a toxic workplace. I think one of the worst things my workplace has done is make my position completely stagnant. I used to do programming, attend webinars, be allowed in staff meetings, etc. Now, with new leadership, I have been forced into only doing customer service. The other assistants and I are not even allowed to spend time at our personal desks to work on things during our forty hours, except for maybe an hour once a week. Which sucks because we are still doing things like tracking volunteer hours, making prizes for the program competitions the librarians set up, etc.

    I am applying to other jobs at the moment but I want expand my skills. I do not want this job to make me stagnant. I am already planning on learning Publisher and EndNote.

    Is there any skills or certifications any of y’all would recommend for someone that plans to work in either public libraries or academic libraries. I am looking at library associate/assistant positions as I will not be getting my MLS until 2021.

    1. Drago Cucina*

      Yuck. As a library director I hate to hear this. We’re most successful in our mission when we allow all staff to nurture their talents and interests.

      1. DoctorateStrange*

        Thank you for saying this. I have to remind myself that my workplace is not normal. I hope to one day work under a library director such as yourself.

  208. Wine is on my mind*

    Well, this was a roller coaster week. My current blended government-nonprofit job has been sucking because of local politicians who want us to provide all the amazing services in the world, but slashed funding. They were ugly and mean, spreading false stories about our management practices. I love the work, but I want to seriously do it in another place. I interviewed for a position last week that is an exciting chance to do meaningful work with some joy. I was told that a decision would be made by Monday. The job was taken down, but no phone call. Wednesday I finally broke down in tears with my husband. Then bam! Yesterday they asked for me to come in today. I had a great 2nd interview. Met the CEO. They were complimentary about my experience. Even if I don’t get the job I know I was worth a closer look.

  209. anonymoose*

    Do you guys have any advice for dealing with a horribly know-it-all coworker? She’s been in the field for two years and is graduating soon with her masters degree, but is very new to the company- maybe 3 months there now? And has a tendency to leave what she should be doing to go “help” with someone else if she perceives a problem, but usually she has no idea what she’s doing and actually creates the additional problem of ignoring what she should do and messing up with something else. She also can give inappropriate verbal feedback to other staff, and cause confusion and bad practices. She also like refuses to acknowledge or accept feedback in a super bristly way, even if you present it seriously in the nicest most unassuming non confrontational way. Is there anything that can be done to work with her better because I’m slowly growing to hate her and that’s probably not great either?

    1. Anon12*

      I mean, if people aren’t already doing this, the first thing I would do is refuse her help. “Oh no, I’m sure you’re really busy with X. Isn’t the deadline tomorrow?!”

      Regarding the hating her part… She is probably doing this because she’s insecure / eager to prove herself at the new job. She might stop if you give her a little recognition for what she is good at and make it clear that she’s welcome there and doesn’t have to worry about proving herself. Or if that doesn’t work, you could try getting to know her more as a person in conversation so maybe you’ll find you like her as a person, if not as a coworker.

    2. Product Person*

      I would talk to your manager, sticking to the facts and asking for advice since you are out of ideas on how to interact with your coworker.

      I’ve worked with someone like this and it sucks! And unlike other problems when directly addressing the issue with the colleague can be effective, in these scenarios I’m a firm believer in looping in the manager. Good luck!

    1. MissDisplaced*

      It’s difficult to say as it really depends on the company and what the do. I’ve seen companies cut from the top end and keep the worker-bees, and I’ve inexplicably seen other companies cut lots of low-level workers while keeping high-paid managers and executives. I’ve also seen jobs get outsourced overseas or attempts to replace jobs with automation.

    2. Product Person*

      At my current company, knowing how to run win/loss analysis in Salesforce would guarantee you a job until things got really bad.

      Data analytics in general tend to be an area highly valued in my last 3 jobs as well.

  211. Miriam*

    So is now the time to ask my employer, that prides itself on being family friendly and having great benefits but only provides a handful of sick days annually (which can’t be carried over), if they will be changing that policy if there is an epidemic outbreak in our area? (I mean, beside the regular cold/flu/stomach bug epidemics that regularly sweep through and cause parents to use up all their sick days in the first 2 months of the year.)

    Granted, we do get some great benefits in other areas. But I am so salty about the sick time situation. I also have a spouse who 1. is particularly susceptible to getting pneumonia, and 2. works with populations that are particularly susceptible to getting/spreading viruses. I am legit worried because there is actually no way for him to continue working and keep safe from a virus with a 2% mortality rate and no vaccine. HIS employer has amazing (for the US) benefits when it comes to PTO, at least.

    I also have some personal things I need to push on when it comes to salary and flexibility, so feel uncomfortable adding one more thing to my “what are you doing for me” list. I think there will be movement on the other asks I have, but I also don’t want to push it.

    1. Buttons*

      I don’t know what other companies are doing. My company is very flexible and very generous with time off. We just released the official company Cornoavirus policy 2 weeks ago. It states if you have traveled to any of the at-risk regions or in contact with anyone who has you are to self-quarantine for 2 weeks and can work from home.
      I would imagine that if anyone contracted it, and needed more than the regular allotted days off they could apply for short-term disability to cover their time off.

    2. Kelly*

      I work in the public sector in the Midwest in a city where there has been one confirmed Coronavirus case so far. The person, whose employer and identity has not been released, was just given the okay to leave their home-based quarantine a couple days ago. They had been under treatment and in quarantine for almost a month.

      It’s already been a hard flu season and there have been higher than normal call out rates for that. Given that I work on a college campus, it’s getting worrisome that there hasn’t been much communication from both our divisional HR person, whose office is perennially understaffed and overwhelmed, and the central campus HR on how to handle a possible outbreak on campus. Campus leadership has cancelled study abroad programs in Italy and South Korea this past week and the China one was shut down before the semester even started. A decent percentage of employees are in the age bracket that has been hardest hit by the virus abroad, mid 50s and older.

      Reasonable steps for employees could include allowing people who have the ability in their jobs to work from home, especially if their work doesn’t require interacting with the public. It would also be great to get some guidance about how to potentially expedite getting short term disability if one were to come down with the virus or have a family member come down with it.

      The biggest thing that could be done, and most likely the one people will resist the most, is require all permanent staff to get cross trained on all basic functions, both back end and public facing. The public facing training should take priority in order to maintain a minimum of services to the public. Yeah, I know our higher ups, tech bros, and people who think they are too good to work with the public will not be happy, but at least we should be able to maintain public services in the event that we have a lot of people sick between permanent and student staff.

  212. ADA Coordinator Training*

    This might be too late for this week so I might also post again next week but anyway….

    I kind of impulsively signed up for the ADA Coordinator Training Certification Program (adacoordinator.org) last week because I am interested in it and everything. Has anyone else done it as an individual without already being a state/local government employee?? I’m working on figuring out what courses I need and where to take them (I’ve done the prerequisite course already and know where to do some others). One item I’m worried about is the conferences that have more of the foundation courses available — I’m hoping one of them will be within driving distance from me over on the East Coast otherwise I’m not sure I can attend one of them because of the costs involved. But we’ll see.

  213. TheFacelessOldWomanWhoSecretlyLivesinYour House*

    Our probationary period clearly states employee may be let go for any reason or no reason. Which means they can simple send a letter stating “Your services are no longer needed.” State and county have this rule.

    2. Close Bracket*

      lol, when I resign, I’m going to use this wording.

      Dear Employer,
      Your paycheck is no longer needed.
      Yrs,
      CB

  214. AnonEnby*

    Not sure anyone will see this, but I mostly just want to vent anyway. I am AFAB, but over the last few years, I have begun to identify more and more as non-binary. I started a new job about a month ago and they gave me a lunchbox with my name embroidered on it. Embroidered on it in a very girly/childish font. With a an i that had a flower for a dot. I was ok with this at first because I thought that was just the brand of the company, which is supposed to be energetic and fun. And I shouldn’t complain about free stuff, right? Then I saw that my male coworkers’ lunchboxes all had their names in a more bold, “manly” print. Unless they are just generating fonts at random or something… this really feels… sexist? And also… transphobic? And why do lunchboxes have to be gendered?

    I’m not sure if I’m overreacting, but I’m finding myself really annoyed by this. People have also made comments to me that are supposed to be supportive of women in the workplace but I feel actually just put undue focus on my apparent gender and force me into being a certain type of woman. And make me feel more like I need to come out to stop myself from being misgendered all. the. time. but I don’t even really know how I identify yet. Any advice? I believe it’s HR doing this.

    1. MissDisplaced*

      I’d be annoyed at the girly/childish font, unless that’s the company logo or something. But I’d be even more annoyed if the women were all given something different from the men. I mean, why?

    2. Misty*

      Yeah that would annoy me a lot. I dress gender neutral enough that most people can’t seem to tell if I’m male or female and I like it that way so I would be annoyed if HR assumed my gender.

    3. call centre bee*

      I consider myself agender/non-binary, though I appreciate most people I meet just see me as a woman. I can tolerate that but I’d draw the line at a floral pink lunchbox unless people assumed to be male were getting a floral pink lunchbox as well.

  215. Maeve*

    I had an issue with a manager where they were pretty awful; didn’t invite me to meetings, withheld info from me, said things like ” No one cares what you think?”. It was never truly resolved, and after I was temporarily transferred to another dept the manager acted like it was permanent even though I was due back on the project. My complaints got taken down…then ignored. I didn’t go to HR ( I regret it) as I was in dispute about contract terms and was worried about it affecting my contract.
    A move back was never sorted and I ended up with no work for months, despite me constantly asking what was going on. About 6 months after this started ( and no new job offers) a coworker suddenly quit and I took over her project elsewhere.
    After that project wrapped up and I was told by the Supervisor on project #2 we’d both be transferred to project #1 , at the thought I’d be going back to old manager’s project without any protection I burst into tears. Supervisor had no idea i’d even been on the project and took my concerns seriously. A week or so later I saw a senior member of staff walking into a meeting with bad manager who turned and gave me..a death glare when they thought I wasn’t looking.

    I wasn’t told officially anything had happened as a result of my complaints..but luckily I ended up on other projects one of which is a bit of a career goal with a great team. Before I ended up on goal project I admit out of my frustration I have talked to a fair few people about my treatment. many had wondered why i had looked so down, or why none of my work was used.

    Fast forward to this week and I was waiting for a meeting, around the corner I could hear bad manager. it’s a noisy office and a few people were on break so I couldn’t hear clearly but I think bad manager was ranting about me bad mouthing them and asking if I’d gone around the whole company talking about them. I suspect this partly triggered by an exec asking for someone in my field to take a look at bad manager’s project, but it could also be that someone’s told her I’ve been quite vocal about my treatment. I know you’re not supposed to gossip, but if I hadn’t I wouldn’t have learned that I’m not the only person who they have mistreated,
    it’s possible this is anxiety brain, and yes bad manager is also gossiping..but I am worried they are going to retaliate against me. On some way I’d like it out in the open, but in other I guess you’re not really supposed to talk with coworkers about this kind of issue…so I wonder if speaking about it would be seen as a bad action, especially since the leadership team at the company seem to have been ignoring the issues.

    Any advice? I’m not sure bad manager was ranting about me…but it lines up with what I’ve heard. opening up about my treatment allowed me to see I wasn’t the only one affected and gained me some support. Does anyone have any ideas on what to do now?

    1. Not So NewReader*

      Do nothing. Seriously. I mean what is there to do?
      Leadership is not ignoring the issues. You did not end up on her team. I don’t think that was a coincidence. I think someone is helping you and listening to you.
      She is ranting because someone told her she had to be good. Things are going on in the back ground.

      The one thing I can see is that you could go back to Supervisor #2 because this person seems helpful and let her know that you are concerned about retaliation. Try to have an idea of what you think that retaliation could look like. If you honestly don’t know then just say that you don’t know what retaliation could look like.

      Someone has your back here, so far it looks like supervisor #2. But it could be someone else. I suspect several people are working in cooperation with each other to get to the bottom of this.

      As far as your guilt about gossiping- try to just let go of that. If she had good behavior there would be nothing to talk about. I think your concerns for safety and well being take precedent over any rules about gossiping. If I think Bob is starting small fires in the basement during lunch, it’s not gossiping to inquire/talk about it. You did what you had to do to preserve yourself.

      This stuff can be nerve-wracking. I do understand that. Perhaps talking to #2 again would help. Or perhaps you will find out something soon that will be helpful.

  216. DreddPirate*

    Looking for reader opinons:
    When competing the education section of your resume, should you mention honors (e.g., magna cum laude) or leave it off?

    1. Reliquary*

      I think if you’re just a year or two out of school, it’s fine. After you have more substantial experience, it’s not important and should be left off.

      1. fhqwhgads*

        Agree. This info is relevant for the short period of time when a resume probably doesn’t have much on it. Once your career is more established, how well you did in school becomes much less relevant compared to your actual accomplishments in the field.

        1. AThought*

          On the other hand, I think as long as you are listing your education it really doesn’t take up much room to add. I have my college listed all on one line.

          University of XYZ, Underwater Basketweaving, summa cum laude 2015

          So to me there’s a very little cost to include it. The pro is that the interviewer sees it in a positive light. The con is that you look focused on the wrong thing. But given that it’s a few words at the bottom of the resume I honestly don’t think the pro or the con are that big. Most likely they won’t care either way.

  217. Newjobsoon*

    I may be looking for a new job this year. Former contacts have been trying to poach me for my apparently in demand skill set.

    My joy at my once beloved job is declining so it seems like a good chance to look around.

    To make an immediate move I’d need to know the culture of the place is as good as where I am now. E.g. empathetic to mistakes, not punished for sick time etc.

    How can I approach these in interviews, esp if I’m not eager to leave my own job right away?

    1. AThought*

      I think there’s a lot you can learn just by paying attention in the interviews – how do the interviewers treat you and each other. I do think you can ask directly about it in interviews (what’s the culture like here?) but I’ve always found that places with good cultures often bring that up in the interviews – mentioning it as a way to sell themselves!

      I’d especially ask that if you have any interviews with people who would be your peers (who I think are likely to be the most honest in this case) If you don’t get a chance to talk to a peer in the interview, if you get an offer, you could ask to talk with a potential peer or co-worker to get a sense of the team. I think that what they say or don’t say (and they may need to code-speak if its negative) will tell you a lot!

  218. Tabby Baltimore*

    In a previous AAM post, someone asked about this (“Is there any way to ask in an interview how they handle it if you make a mistake or if there is a problem?”) Here’s the URL for it: https://www.askamanager.org/2018/02/open-thread-february-23-24-2018.html#comment-1866220.

    A couple of things readers said to keep in mind after you ask about a supervisor’s communication style:
    – If someone gives a good, detailed explanation of their reasonable communication practices, you can be pretty sure they are a good boss.
    – People who don’t know how to handle coaching and correction in a professional manner will not be able to answer it.

    Here is a short list of questions various readers offered for the poster to address to a supervisor during an interview:
    – How do you handle coaching and correction?
    – How do you deliver criticism?
    – How do you deliver feedback?
    – What types of feedback do you give to your reports?
    – How is [employee] success measured here?

    1. Close Bracket*

      Wow, these are great! I had an interview where every single person asked me how I handle difficult people, which just made me wonder how difficult that group was :) (mind you, this is a common behavioral question, but no shit, *every* person out of like a half dozen asked). I’m going to try to remember these so the next time I get that question, I can ask these in response!

      I don’t know if I would ask them without a lead in, though. Just as people asking me how I handle difficult people made me wonder how difficult people in that group were, I would be concerned that asking my interviewer how *they* handle difficult people would lead them to think *I’m* difficult.

  219. Mary*

    Ask them about their tolerance for background noise. Tell them you are on the phone a lot and ask the office manager if the firm will buy noise cancelling headphones.

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