open thread – April 3-4, 2020

by Alison Green on April 3, 2020

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about. If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please do not repost it here, as it may be in my queue to answer.

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  1. Ask a Manager* Post author

    A reminder that even in these weird times, this is still the work thread! Please keep comments focused on work, specifically. (Work and coronavirus — fine. Coronavirus on its own — please save that for the weekend free-for-all; I will remove them here.) Thank you.

  2. Green Goose*

    Hi all. My sister has been actively job hunting for over a year and a half and has not had any luck, she’s had a couple of “almosts” and more devastatingly, two different hiring managers at different companies unofficially told her she had the job and then in the end it didn’t work out. She also went through a long and vigorous interview process at a friend’s company only to find out about six weeks in that there was no job available (I still don’t know why a company would do that to someone, it seems cruel). She was never officially told this, only found out through her friend who heard through the grapevine.

    This has taken a huge toll on her happiness and overall well-being. She lives in a different country than me and the rest of our family, and she’s in a completely different industry than me or anyone I know so there isn’t really anything I can do to help in terms of connections or advice.

    Now with Covid happening the landscape looks even more grim for her to get a job and I am starting to worry about her mental health. She’s a very social person so the isolation is getting to her a lot more, and now she not only does not have work but she can’t really leave her small apartment with her husband. Does anyone have any advice? Is anyone in my sister’s situation and can provide feedback for how you’d like to be supported during this time?

    I feel like whenever we talk I inadvertently end up striking a nerve with her, even though I feel like I’m walking on eggshells so advice is very much appreciated.

    1. Grits McGee*

      I would recommend putting a moratorium on advice, pep talks, “you’ll survive this…”, etc and focus on being there as someone who can express things to without judgement. Are there non-work, non-leaving the house subjects you can talk about? Stories from your childhood that made you proud of your sister or made people admire her? Funny things that you’ve seen from your window? Is there anything you can do for her from a distance (pay for a streaming service/take out/etc)?

    2. Nita*

      That sounds terrible, I’m sorry she is going through this. Since you’re so far away, maybe the occasional care package will lift her mood? I’m only suggesting this because when I’m far away from my loved ones, this is the thing that makes me feel a little closer to them. Phone calls, not so much – there are only so many times I can say “We’re all well, but xyz situation is still terrible, and it still hasn’t changed, so that’s my news for the day.” I wish her luck!

    3. OtterB*

      If there’s not already some non-work, non-COVID topic you share, can you find one? Stream the same show and talk about it?

      1. WellRed*

        I do this with a friend, I usually watch a certain TV show with. We have a phone call to catch up and then watch teh show and text each other during it with comments.

          1. Green Goose*

            Do you know if this works for different countries Netflix? If I’m in Country A (with Country A Netflix) can I link up with someone in Country B (with Country B Netflix)?

            1. Rabbit*

              It seems to work as long as the show is available in both countries as normal – at least i’ve used it with people in the US (im in the UK)

            2. Lizzo*

              I don’t know, but what Rabbit has said makes sense. If you’re a Twitter user you might try tweeting at Netflix and see if they can help you out? I’m sure this isn’t the first time this question has come up. :-D

    4. Kali*

      I speak with a lot of people going through trauma, and almost universally, they hate being coddled. Feelings are valid and should not be suppressed or ignored but acknowledged – that doesn’t mean you should wallow in pity with her, but let her talk and listen to her. Don’t tell her things will get better, because they may not for a long time. Don’t tell her that you know how it feels, because you probably don’t. If she doesn’t want advice, respect that. “I hear you.” “I’m here if you want to talk.” “That sounds really difficult, and I’m sorry.” are all good lines. And number one thing, “What can I do to help?” Let her decide what she needs or wants, but be clear that you’re available.

      Btw, I’m not saying that you are or aren’t doing anything of these things, but they’re the things that I hear people complain about when they’re going through difficult times.

      That all said, some distraction is good, provided that’s what she wants. Watch a movie together or have some coffee in the morning or tea in the afternoon, or whatever you normally did when she was closer by. Create a two person book club. Learn to draw a horse together and laugh at the inevitable, terrible results.

      It sucks feeling helpless when you’re far away. I’m on your end of this right now, and as someone who “fixes” problems, it’s hard. But acknowledging that elephant in the room rather than tiptoeing around it is the best way to avoid walking on eggshells. (Additional comment that helps – “I’m here for you, but I know I’m going to make mistakes and say unhelpful things from time to time. Don’t hesitate to tell me if I’m crossing a line that you don’t want me to.”) If you listen to her, she’ll let you know what she needs though – that’s the bottom line. Good luck to both you and your sister!

      1. Iron Chef Boyardee*

        “Don’t tell her that you know how it feels, because you probably don’t.”

        It may not be applicable in this specific scenario, but on the same level as “I know how you feel,” I can tell you that “if I can do it, you can do it” doesn’t carry much weight with me as a motivator. Your circumstances may be completely different from mine – you may have a better social support system than I do; the life path that brought you to this moment in time and enabled you to be able to do “it” may have been an easier one than the one I had to take; you may be better equipped to do “it” for Reasons.

    5. Jules the 3rd*

      Can you ask her? ‘Hey, sis, I want to support you in the way you want to be supported. What would that look like to you?’

      Because all we’re doing is guessing, she’s the only person who might know.

    7. Snow*

      When I was out of a job after graduation I got rejected 250 times, and it was a black pit of despair for a while. I remember feeling really happy when I tried things out of my daily routine – once I went with my friend to one of her lectures which had nothing to do with my career. Visiting stuff might be hard right now, but I recently taught myself to tie knots and create bracelets out of paracord to get out of another mental health slump. Basically, hobbies are good and starting a new one is really fun because you a see a lot of progress in a short amount of time = confidence boost!

    8. Elizabeth West*

      This is my situation (except for the husband). There’s a lot of good advice in this thread. My recommendations:

      If you’re close to your sister, it’s okay to check in with her. But stay away from work topics; don’t ask about applications, don’t ask “How’s the job search going?” If she has something to tell you, she’ll tell you. It’s very tiresome to have to answer that question all the time, especially when it’s not going well.

      If she wants to vent about the job situation, listen without offering any advice. Sometimes people just want to unload. They don’t need or want to be told what to do.

    9. Koala dreams*

      If talking is difficult, maybe you can focus on sending photos, or other non-talk things? Play a game over skype, take photos from your gardens, share songs and youtube videos, a tea break over skype, sending postcards if that’s possible.

      You can also ask your sister directly what kind of support she would like.

      As for her health, that’s not something you can talk to her about. If she gets ill, she will need support from you, and not have to bear your worries on top of her own. You’ll need to talk to someone else about those worries. Your diary, another friend, a therapist.

    10. Gatomon*

      My instinct is to not even go there on job hunting/isolation unless she brings it up first. Often what’s really painful about long-term job hunting is not having any good news to report but constantly being asked. I’m sure she’ll let you know if things change for her.

      I would try directly engaging her in something to combat the isolation. Maybe there’s a show you can both stream and discuss regularly during/afterwards via a messaging platform, or just have a regular call about afterwards? Back in the dark ages before Netflix and DVR we used to get together to watch them live and talk. We can still do that with modern technology. I remember my friends and I had weekly gatherings for Heroes, ANTM, Project Runway and Survivor during college.

    11. cleo*

      You might just ask her what would be most helpful. Maybe offer a couple things you could do and ask what she’d prefere

      I know that when I was laid off a few years ago and having a really hard time (it reactivated my PTSD from childhood trauma) every well meaning thing that everyone told me really just upset me.

      I finally just gave my husband and best friend a couple scripts – I think it was “that sounds hard” and “you’re doing really well”

    13. Pommette!*

      I’ve been in a similar situation before, at least in that I faced with long-term unemployment and isolation (because I had no friends or family locally, and no money to travel to see my people or to join new activities). It did not take long for me to become severely depressed.

      I’ll be forever grateful to the good friend who made a point of calling regularly. She made it clear that she was happy to help however she could, and to listen to me, but there was no clear way for her to help with my problems, and I really didn’t have anything to talk about (depression and isolation KILLED my ability to hold even a basic conversation). So on some days she talked at me while I made occasional sounds. And on some days we talked about banal things. And on some days, we talked about her problems, at length, and tried to think up solutions. It made me feel useful and human at a time when not a lot of things did.

      1. Caroline Bowman*

        that’s a good friend. I hope she’s in your life for a very long time because that is the kind of friend worth more than gold.

  3. No Tribble At All*

    My workplace announced a WFH photo competition. I have 2 matching cats. I’m going to win this!

    3. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      Oooooh double trouble *_*

      I like that for a fun WFH competition to keep engagement up.

      1. pnw dweller*

        Since this is a thread about cats and WFH; my new feline coworker was supervising the reading of this and was mesmerized by your photo. Got up from my lap and zeroed in on it, stepped on my keyboard to get a close view. And then walked away. I don’t know if fame is fleeting or if a mouse was calling her name, but for a brief moment your avatar was everything to her.

        1. Jedi Squirrel*

          One thing we are learning from all this WFH stuff is that our pets can be really weird.

          We already knew our kids were weird.

      2. Girl with the yellow umbrella*

        Just wanna say that I love your username here! Becky lynch is my hero :D (sorry – not work related!)

    4. Art3mis*

      Sweet! Mine did this, then announced that everyone that participated was getting a $50 Door Dash Gift Card! Good Luck!

    5. Admin of sys*

      nice! we had a best virtual desktop for zoom competition – someone had an animated cat that looked like it was kneading his head, it was awesome.

    7. plp*

      I made a video spoofing the opening credits of Full House with just me and my two pets for our work competition. Highly recommend, it was a ton of fun.

    8. Seeking Second Childhood*

      My daughter’s school is asking for e-learning pictures for the yearbook. Best picture so far is of legs sticking out from under blanket fort. Send it or no?

  4. ThatGirl*

    My department has always been a little … discombobulated about communication, and man is that getting worse with everyone working from home. A project I was told was relatively straightforward has now gotten more and less and more complicated again in the course of 72 hours, which is what happens when no one person is taking ownership of everything. Happy Friday, y’all.

    1. James*

      I feel your pain! I joke that I’m the only person who really knows everything going on at my job site, which sucks when I’m not at the job site.

      On the plus side, if you’re the one holding the projects together it’s really hard to fire you, lay you off, or otherwise stop paying you. So, silver lining! :)

    2. Fake Old Converse Shoes (not in the US)*

      We’re on the same boat. We were great with two WFH days a week, but now… it’s not so much. I suggested we have two checkpoints per day, because all the issues that could be solved in a ten minutes brainstorming session are snowballing. I wrote about something that happened this week.

    3. Observer*

      Can you get people using some sort of communications tool other than email? There are a lot of free options – maybe not the best and not great for long term documentation, but you don’t have long term documentation now anyway.

      If you have Office 365, Teams might be part of your package. Slack and Trello have free versions. Those are the first ones that come to my mind, but I’m sure there are others. Each one is very different from the others, but one of them might wind up working well for your team’s style.

  5. Job searcher*

    Hi. I need suggestions on how I can push back on something without losing a job opportunity. I have never negotiated but given current climate I need to tread very carefully.

    The position seems great and they were very enthusiastic about moving forward with me. I had the second interview with him today and told him that while I can still start May 5th, it would have to be remote for the 1st two weeks. The interviewer said he’d have to think about it.

    He got back to me fairly quickly and said that he’s interested in moving forward but they really need someone to come in 3 days a week until this blows over because it’s an “essential business” and he needs someone to meet clients in the office. Not sure if this is relevant but during the interview I asked about the culture and he said that as long as work is done, he’s not strict about PTO (unlimited PTO) and that also he’d want to move to 1x a week remotely. It’s a young company but he seems like he’d trust his employees…after time. 

    I know the easy answer is “forget it and keep looking” and I really wish I was in a position to flat out refuse but I really need a job and I don’t feel that I can afford to be picky. But I absolutely cannot compromise on anyones health, so I plan to push back and be able to WFH as long as I can. 

    I am willing to go in 1x a week (as I am going out 1x every other week for medical appointments) until it’s safe to commute fully. It’s a young company so I don’t mind working extra hard (from home) to prove that remote work can be done well but I truly can’t go in the office as often as he wants. I am willing to turn down the offer if he won’t compromise but I want to at least try. I know this doesn’t sound great but I don’t have a lot of options at this point with so many being laid off/fired. I have nearly a decade of work experience and I hate that i find myself in this position of being desperate again (first time around being fresh out of college in the 2008-2009 recession).

    1. ThatGirl*

      Does your state or county/city have guidance that would support this? Do you or someone you live with have underlying health conditions? I feel like both of those could give you more leverage to say “I understand that under normal circumstances, I’d need to be in the office, but this is an extraordinary time and given (fill in the blank) I don’t feel comfortable coming in that frequently” or something along those lines.

      1. Diahann Carroll*

        Yup, and to add on to this, you could offer to FaceTime clients so you don’t have to meet them face to face. It would be terrible for business if you are an asymptomatic carrier of this virus and then met one of your clients and got them sick.

      2. Job searcher*

        I didn’t think of city/state guidance. One of my friends said that I can report the company for this but I’m not sure where.

        I did mention to him in a conversation that I would need to be remote for now as I live with my elderly mother (I also have a few health conditions but I didn’t relay those to him). Under normal circumstances I’d be ready for 5 days in office. He “slept on it” and came back with 3 days a week.

          1. valentine*

            I live with my elderly mother (I also have a few health conditions
            Going in even once a week is too great a risk, even if you were willing to insist the clients keep their distance or to properly use gloves and a face shield around them. You’re going to risk death to be polite and stay employed.

            Either don’t take the job or say you simply can’t go in.

          2. Job searcher*

            I don’t have an offer yet. I think we’re still in the negotiation stages if I’m understanding correctly.

            1. Mad Harry Crewe*

              Same as with house-buying, typically negotiation happens after the initial offer. Obviously, right now you are in a negotiation with this guy about what the job might entail, but when people say “oh, I negotiated my last job offer” this is more what it looks like:

              Company (making an offer): Hello, we would like to pay you $X plus Y benefits, for you to do A, B, and C work on our behalf.
              You (negotiating): I’m very interested in working for you, but I was hoping I could also get Z benefit (or $X+5000, or not do task C, etc). Can you make that happen?
              Company either updates their offer to include your request, offers a compromise, or tells you that they can’t do it and the original offer is firm.

              You might also go back and forth a bit – maybe you asked for more money, but they can’t do that so they offer more PTO, so you come back with more PTO + a guaranteed wage increase at 6 months if certain metrics are met… and so forth.

        2. ThatGirl*

          Local dept of health, probably. But I would start with “given our local guidance, and the fact that I live with my elderly mother, who is in a high-risk group…” and modify as needed.

        3. Jules the 3rd*

          You really need to hold firm on the ‘wfh for 2 weeks’, but maybe suggest / ask about ‘meet with clients’ options, like phone calls / slack / etc. I know you need a job, but this is your mom’s life he wants to risk. Is that worth a job?

        4. Batgirl*

          “I looked into how flexible this is but the health guidance for my mother is that the entire household have to x,y,z -and finding somewhere else to live right now is nearly impossible”

        5. Spero*

          Did you ask about any specific accommodations they have in place? Ex I’m working from office 5 days a week due to my work being essential, but we’ve ordered extensive sanitizing supplies, redirected from in person to online/Zoom screenings, different desk setups with more distance, and relying on docusign for things that previously required multiple drop bys our office. I’m also allowing staff flexibility in alternate schedules, changed duties to more protected roles, and they are all here less than myself to reduce their exposure. Some of that info could make you more secure.

          I’m sympathetic to him because if he’s truly essential he isn’t doing anything wrong or reportable by staying open. He should but isn’t technically required to offer enhanced protection to staff in most places. It may not be a good fit for your situation, but that doesn’t mean he is doing anything wrong.

          1. Job searcher*

            His business is considered essential by state guidelines BUT I know firsthand that many of the same line of work can easily be done from home, including client meetings. That’s why i’m a little bit iffy on it – he seems like a nice reasonable person and if circumstances were normal, there’d be no issue. And the pay is really great.

            I could ask him about specific accommodations – what would be a good way to approach that? I haven’t received hte offer yet.

            1. snoopythedog*

              I’d start with, ‘under normal circumstances, I’d expect to be in the office 4-5 days a week to meet clients. Given that this is an unprecidented time I’m wondering if some accomodations can be made. I currently live with high-risk individuals and cannot risk their safety by interacting with the public more than absolutely necessary. I’ve heard from business colleagues that clients are open to being more accommodating to these trying times and I’m willing to work hard and creatively find solutions to meet or exceed client solutions without being face to face. Unfortunately, it is not just my health, but that of those that I live with and who depend on me that I’m putting at risk here. I’d love to see what short term/temporary measures we could put in place to get us through the pandemic. [reiterate here all your skills and some solutions’]. I’d be willing to come up with some metrics and accountabilities to ensure that I’m meeting and exceeding the expectations of this position.”

              1. snoopythedog*

                The key points here are:
                – short term changes in business as usual due to pandemic
                -risking health and safety of others you live with (aka you could kill your mom)
                – willing to be creative and show initiative to come up with solutions
                – willing to go overboard in the beginning to ensure accountability and set up metrics to ensure you are meeting job requirements (aka- showing you are working)
                -you are willing to compromise on what WFH looks like, but not the WFH piece.

        6. Caroline Bowman*

          This is a weird one. Obviously you want the job – and it sounds like a great job under normal circumstances – but he’s treating the whole ”isolation” thing as a negotiating chip. It’s not really, surely? I realise that in the US it varies by state but surely you really do need to work remotely at least for a few weeks, going on the proposed start date?

          It might be worth going back and asking him to clarify ”so what you’re saying is that despite the lock down you’d need me to meet clients / carry on in-person as normal 3 days a week from X date?” If he says yes, then you have to say ”I just don’t think that’s a possibility for me. I would hate to unknowingly infect anyone or bring home infection to my family / myself. I’d be so happy to work remotely for X time, and then phase into in-person, but ethically I cannot do what you have outlined”. Then forget about it. It’s not worth it. Either he will listen to what you’ve said and be reasonable or he won’t, but this is a big red flag.

    2. Kali*

      I feel like there are a lot of red flags all over this. If you’re putting essential business in quotation marks, I think you know he’s full of it too. Obviously, this is not a situation where you’re dispatching ambulances or something truly essential. I’m both concerned and suspicious about these clients that are supposedly coming to the office.

      1. Paulina*

        Yes, and “unlimited PTO as long as the job gets done” is another red flag. Especially if meeting clients in the office is seen as such an essential part of the job, so will this boss (who doesn’t seem to be restructuring the work sufficiently in the current public health crisis) ever structure the work to allow for any reasonable time off?

        1. Job searcher*

          @Paulina, would unlimited PTO be a red flag outside of the pandemic? I’ve only heard of it here but not actually put in to practice at any companies. He did say specifically “I dont’ care if you take an extra few days off here and there.” if that matters. If I’m right, it seems like that he’d be flexible with good workers, but wants them to prove themselves first.

          1. Unlimited*

            “Unlimited PTO” is almost always offered by companies that greatly discourage using PTO. It’s a huge red flag for me. Every company I know of personally or through friends and colleagues that has offered defined PTO allowed employees to take all of it (i.e., if they offer 2 weeks vacation, they have no problem with you actually taking 2 weeks off during the year), but every company that has unlimited PTO discourages taking more than a day off here and there.
            It’s a lot like “unlimited growth potential”, a red flag for MLMs. I’m sure you could think of others.

              1. Wheezy Weasel*

                I’ve been following the unlimited PTO for the last few years here on AAM and in my own workplaces, and it has the potential to go either way. Some companies allow you to use it as it’s intended – not having to earn vacation as a new employee, not having to ration your time off – but others are like commenter Unlimited mentions: it’s truly at the mercy of the manager to whether they approve it. I would personally be very wary of working for a small company as you describe with an owner who doesn’t seem to be negotiating with you in good faith, from your description.

                1. Mad Harry Crewe*

                  Agreed. My current job has unlimited PTO and it’s solid, but I also checked during the interview when I was meeting with people at my same level. I asked something like “So, is the vacation truly flexible, or is it more like ‘weeeeell, you took a week off last year, so I don’t know about this current request…’?” – they both said they’ve never had trouble getting time off, they fully expected that if there was a conflict the managers would work with them to find a good time, and that the head of our department had told one of them he’d never had to deny someone’s vacation request. I have found that report to be accurate, but I’m also really glad I checked first.

      2. Job searcher*

        You’re right, I do find the “essential” part to be BS. Under normal circumstances, I wouldn’t hesitate on accepting the job.

    3. KayDeeAye*

      I’ve been told by my regular doctor that reducing the number of days you work in the office from 5 to, say, 3 does not change the risk equation. So long as you go in there multiple days/week, you may as well go in there five days per week because you are putting yourself just as much at risk.

      And you’re going to be meeting with clients!

      Oh, this just doesn’t sound right. If you need the job, well, you need the job, but this sounds sketchy as heck. This is a guy who has decided he knows better than the CDC or your local health department.

    4. M*

      If you’re going out for medical appointments you shouldn’t be going into ANY office. People still seem not to be calling ahead when they have symptoms and going to doctors offices, fleeing to the Hamptons, etc. I also think there are red flags as I don’t think it’s essential to meet clients right now unless it’s the medical field. I’m also sure clients don’t want to meet unless it’s remote. I would push back and see what the owner says but I personally would look for something else. I feel like this kind of stuff is going to keep us in this situation longer. There needs to be more strict rules for “essential business.” It’s not worth putting your health And your elderly mothers health at risk if you don’t have to. Do you currently have a job you can stay at? If not look into the new unemployment scheme or some states pay you to stay home and take care of elderly family members. I’m sorry this sucks.

      1. Job searcher*

        I agree, I don’t think it’s essential to meet clients face to face in a time like this. I know with firsthand experience that is 100% possible to meet clients virtually–but I’ve known companies that have clients who are stubborn and still want to meet in person. At that point it’s up to the business owner to keep them as a client.

        I don’t have a job right now, I was let go at the start of this crisis. I applied for unemployment, but until I receive the funds I am not counting on that to sustain me permanently or even temporarily. I need something to hold me until the end of the year.

    5. LoSquared*

      I wonder if some of the pushback from the manager is that May 5th (proposed start date) is currently after any state/national guidelines for social distancing/shelter in place/stay at home. Could you discuss that you would be happy to start on May 5th, but if there is new guidance put out by your state or local jurisdiction, then you may have to reconsider a WFH option?

      1. Job searcher*

        That’s what I’m considering asking. I asked someone and he suggested that I put the ball in the company’s court and ask him what would be the plan if state/national guidelines change?

        I’m truly and honestly hoping that things are better by then for everyone but the way things are going right now, things change literally every day so I need to be prepared for that.

        1. Caroline Bowman*

          that’s a good idea. Ask specifically about if the department of health / CDC / whoever is applicable changes the guidelines. If he prevaricates, you have your answer. If he says ”oh well of course in that case then you work from home for as long as necessary”, then that’s a good sign.

    6. ynotlot*

      If they’re an essential business, there’s nothing to report to anyone. Essential businesses are allowed to stay open, even if you have a stay in place order.
      This isn’t advice, but lots of us are still going to work. Like maybe half of us or more? (Truly, I have no idea what the breakdown is and I’m VERY curious) I see tons of social media posts about ‘quarantine’ (which I think people are confusing with isolation, which is what they’re doing), but nearly everyone I know works for an essential business and goes into work daily.
      So, you’d be taking a risk if you decide to take the job and go in, but 1. it wouldn’t be against the rules if it’s an essential business, 2. you’ll be in good company with restaurant workers, grocery store workers, healthcare workers, pharmacists, etc etc.
      Sorry if I’m misunderstanding your question – was there a separate reason outside pandemic stuff that coming in 3x a week wouldn’t work?

      1. Job searcher*

        @ynotlot – outside of the pandemic, I would have no issue coming in a regular 5 days a week. I wouldn’t even be posting here as I would accept it.

        I didn’t want to be specific, but it is a small accounting company. I know many accounting firms that are working 100% remotely and some are willing to make the decision to fire clients who insist on face to face meetings during this time hence putting “essential” in quotes.

        1. nonegiven*

          Financial services is essential.

          It does absolutely fall under the ‘possible to do remotely’ and should be remote.

  6. Holo Friends*

    My boss is pushing himself way too hard during this time. For reference, I work for a trade association that represents healthcare facilities so obviously COVID-19 has been a nightmare at work. He keeps talking about how he is working 19 hour days and by the end of the traditional work day he is absolutely incoherent. He genuinely sounds like he is drunk. He is my boss and to be honest, I really don’t like him as a leader or as a person. We really don’t have a great relationship. But I obviously don’t want him to drive himself to an early grave. Can I say something?

    1. Sharkie*

      I would just lay low. If it is that bad someone else will speak up.

      Also love the user name

      1. Holo Friends*

        The entire staff is talking amongst ourselves about it. We have a Chief Medical Officer on staff who is a former nurse on staff and she is expressing a lot of concern both to us and to him.

        1. HerGirlFriday*

          The CMO needs to be reminded that she has the authority, by position and professional experience, to talk to him about his stress levels. For his benefit and the benefit of the organization. Even she reports to him, it should be part of her duties as a medical professional to speak up.
          (I’m reminded of how a ship’s doctor can order a captain to go off duty for medical reasons)

    2. Diahann Carroll*

      I don’t see why not, though you can’t tell him to stop working since it doesn’t sound like you two have the kind of relationship where that would go over well. But the next time you guys speak, if he sounds incoherent, you can ask him if he’s okay because he sounds overwhelmed and you’re concerned. And it’s important that you do in fact sound concerned because if you sound remotely annoyed, that will cause problems as well.

    3. WantonSeedStitch*

      I think the best thing you could do is to let him know if you have some space on your plate to take on additional work (obviously, only if it won’t cause YOU to burn out), and to ask if there’s anything you can take on if that’s the case. Or, failing that, just saying something like, “hey boss, I know you’re unbelievably swamped right now. Is there anything I can do to make your job a little easier?” could go a long way. It might be that the stuff that’s overwhelming him is stuff only he can do, and that you’re already doing as much as you can, but I’m sure he’ll appreciate the offer. And hey, it might go some ways towards helping to improve the relationship somewhat, even if it never gets great.

    4. Holo Friends*

      I have been trying to go above and beyond to the best of my ability (i.e. he was talking about making an easy list in Outlook so he could just send the meeting invites to a “Public Affairs” list rather than typing out everyone’s email) so I just did that really quick for him. The problem is that he is a micromanager so he is butting in all of our jobs in areas where he really doesn’t need to be involved. That is part of a larger problem that probably won’t be fixed while we are all working remotely, but still.

      I do communications and public affairs so I have been trying to anticipate what he is going to have me work on, like drafting press releases and media toolkits for our healthcare facility members.

      1. NotAPirate*

        Start linking news articles about the importance of taking regular breaks when working remote? I read one on reduced productivity due to stress right now.

    5. Fikly*

      Say something to who?

      If he’s that far gone, he’s not going to listen, or rather, he’s not going to hear you and change his behavior. The only way he’s going to stop is if he collapses, or if someone above him makes him stop.

      1. Holo Friends*

        Well he did call yesterday at 4:00 and said that he had been drinking and that I should start. I told him I was enjoying my virgin screwdriver (orange juice)

    7. JustKnope*

      Following this thread! While I do like my boss, he has NEVER been a good delegator. He’s a bottle neck, and even thought at his senior level he should be doing more strategic work, he ends up executing so much tactical work that could be handed off to the team. (I also work in communications.) My team is talking amongst ourselves about how to support him, because he’s starting to get snappy with us and now that we’re remote he’s even LESS likely to delegate. Before, sometimes when we saw him getting stressed we could gently take things off his plate, now we don’t have line of sight to do that. It’s frustrating. He’s clearly overworked and is pulling crazy hours, but he really doesn’t need to be!

          1. Meyla*

            I got Cosmic and it has been detrimental to my productivity. Time goes by so fast when staring at your mesmerizing nails.

            1. Jaid*

              Awesome. Those nails look like opals, one of my favorite stones. I love seeing her Twitter featuring everyone’s nails, so pretty.

    9. Koala dreams*

      I think you can say something once, if you think you can keep your tone caring and not annoyed. Burn out is a serious problem in the health care field even in normal circumstances. That being said, I don’t expect it to be very effective, both because it’s your boss and because you don’t have a good relationship before this.

    10. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      > by the end of the traditional work day he is absolutely incoherent. He genuinely sounds like he is drunk.

      Is it possible that he is actually drinking during the work day to somehow get through this?

      I say this after a bit of consideration, and I could well be wrong (I frequently am!) but I’ve inferred that it gets progressively worse during the day and then seems to be ‘reset’ somehow the next day (after 5 hours sleep)?

      2. Holo Friends*

        That is a fair point since he does kind of slur his words and he is just incoherent (like can’t put his thoughts into sentences) and unable to comprehend things.

        1. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

          Regarding a comment you made upthread: “Well he did call yesterday at 4:00 and said that he had been drinking and that I should start. I told him I was enjoying my virgin screwdriver (orange juice)”… I expect it sounded more like e.g. haha yeahI’vebeendrinkingbutImstilltooooootallyintheroom.. amirite?…you shhhould shhhtart drinking becausesssh we’re all dealing with thissssshhh.. what was I saying?”

          I think the occam’s razor explanation here is that when he sounds drunk.. he is actually drunk.

            1. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

              Well, I think if this guy continues this way.. it’s not going to end well, lets just say.

              The question is does OP of the thread have any obligation to do something? Do you want to, OP?

              I am leaning towards reporting it to this guy’s manager, if at all possible. It’s a concern for this guy’s health, not just a “manager-employee dispute” or similar. Or could you go directly to HR.

              I’m sorry to say that if you take this course of action it may be that this guy will be fired, rather than the company working with him to find a way forward.

    11. LazySock*

      I have nothing to add to your comment, just wanted to say hi to a fellow Simply-Fan. Hope you’re well, stay holo!

  7. Bunny Girl*

    Does anyone else feel guilty that they are enjoying working from home? I’m not enjoying the situation, just want to make that clear. But I have really been thriving these last couple weeks. My work keeps sending out check-ins and offers of support for people working from home, but I love it so much. My work related anxiety is almost non-existent, I am noticeably happier, my coworkers are overall really awful people and I don’t have to see them at all… It’s just been nice, but I feel guilty that I’m enjoying it when a lot of them obviously aren’t.

    1. Lauren*

      As an introvert, I am also wicked enjoying the time at home. This feels like a retreat from my anxiety as long as I wipe everything down from outside coming in. I feel better than I have in years like real rest is happening and I’m not obligated to run around for everyone in my life. I still feel like something is wrong with me cause I’m going stir crazy. Its nice to just sot and not run around.

      1. Bunny Girl*

        Same! I am extremely introverted and I’m even really picky about what social situations I put myself in. This doesn’t go over super well with my social group so I feel like I’m constantly making up excuses on why I can’t go instead of just saying Sorry I’m not in a great headspace right now and don’t want to come. Now I don’t have to worry about that and I feel like I’m getting real rest, as you’ve said.

        1. valentine*

          my coworkers are overall really awful people […] I feel guilty that I’m enjoying it when a lot of them obviously aren’t.
          You’re too kind. Embrace this as a righteous reprieve from the wicked.

          1. Mina, The Company Prom Queen*

            This. There is no reason to feel guilty about enjoying being away from people who are awful.

            1. Mina, The Company Prom Queen*

              And since they are awful, who cares that they aren’t enjoying it. Not your problem. :)

    2. MicroManagered*

      I share your enjoyment of WFH but without the guilt. I actually think it’s really important to focus on the positives in this situation, whether that’s enjoying WFH or a particularly sunny day.

      1. Bunny Girl*

        I think the only reason I feel guilty is other people in my department are really, really struggling with it. LoL

    3. my laptop is sitting on a cardboard box*

      I’m loving it even though I’m not an “introvert” and the majority of my dept (who, to be fair, usually have much less virtual tasks than me) are very vocal about hating it and wanting to be allowed back at the office ASAP. I know there’s been murmuring that some managers in the ranks are planning to use this after everything settles down to try to win over the very Butts in Seats Big Boss that occasional WFH is A) doable B) not just people trying to slack off C) increasingly more common and D) will make us more attractive as an employer. I hope it works.

      1. Bunny Girl*

        Our boss is very butts in seats also. After this is all over, I know we won’t be able to work from home, but honestly after this is over I’m going to start job hunting again so I really don’t care.

        1. my laptop is sitting on a cardboard box*

          I see you below refer to faculty… hello from another (non-teaching) academic ;)

          The reality of my job would probably never allow for full time WFH as there are some tasks I need to be onsite for and meetings that I’d rather have in person. But I’d love the freedom to do it at least a few times a month and for me and the majority of my colleagues, there’s absolutely no reason we couldn’t. Our Big Boss has no faith in us, obviously. they felt the need to send an email on the first day WFH telling us that this is NOT to be seen as a vacation and they EXPECT us to work as much as able …. we’re a dept that doesn’t teach directly but heavily facilitates instruction and study so I don’t think anyone wasn’t scrambling to make indefinite online learning work as painlessly as possible… it felt tone deaf and detached from the reality that most of us DO care and AREN’T slacking off/having fun in the midst of a global pandemic.

          1. Bunny Girl*

            Yes I know that they want us to be available to support the faculty and be in the office. I’m only working in higher education until I graduate with my own degree and then I am out of here. I’ve worked in higher ed for three years and I hate it.

      2. Mina, The Company Prom Queen*

        I wonder if a lot of the people who are very vocal about preferring to work on the office are just B.S. brown nosing.

    4. DarthVelma*

      I normally really enjoy working from home and there are many things I’m enjoying about it now. I don’t feel guilty about that.

      What I’m having a hard time with is reacting to all the people telling me how much I should be loving it since I’m an introvert. My issue is that I’m actually having to interact MORE with my co-workers every day right now than I usually do when I’m in the office, and a LOT MORE than when I work from home under normal circumstances. I’m trying not to feel guilty about wanting to have Just. One. Day. without endless conference calls.

      End of rant. I’m hoping writing it down here means I won’t end up yelling about it in a really inappropriate setting. :-)

      1. Bluesboy*

        I am also interacting more with my colleagues! I sit in a different office from the rest of my team (Chinese wall) and we are often out visiting clients anyway. Now we have a ‘catch up’ phone call every day at 10am, plus other catch ups throughout the day. Looking forward to being back in the office so as to spend less time with colleagues…

    5. Third or Nothing!*

      I also love working from home. I roll out of bed 30 minutes before I log on to my computer and get to take a nice long walk during my lunch break. And I get to run for an hour every single afternoon after I log off.

      I do have a toddler running around the house though so it’s not the ideal setup. I’m constantly having to take breaks to go get her a snack, clean up a mess, set up an independent activity, etc.

        2. Third or Nothing!*

          I’d love to be able to do that but I’ve got that toddler to deal with. She always has a poopy Pull-Up waiting for me in the mornings so that takes a while to clean up. Then I’ve got to get her settled in with breakfast and Elsa and get my cup of coffee…

          Sometimes I wake up extra early just so I can drink my coffee in peace and watch the sunrise.

    6. Daffy Duck*

      I am a full-time WFH. I absolutely love it. I know lots of people don’t enjoy WFH, and many others have problems focusing, but I wouldn’t go back to site work for a 50% increase in pay.

      1. Bunny Girl*

        I know my current job will never let us work from home after this is over. They value a “presence in the department” too much. And if I was at home, who would the faculty scream at for tiny misconceived slights?

      2. Diahann Carroll*

        I’d go in-house for a 50% increase, lol. That would be life changing money for me. Then once I was finished paying off what I needed to pay off (ugh, student loans), I’d quit and find another full-time remote position.

    7. The Real Lady Marmalade*

      100% second this. Had I been in the office these past few weeks, my stress would have been through the roof – so many interruptions, running between meetings, no natural opportunities to take breaks. I am able to stay more organized at home because I can build in breathers. As an introvert and someone who enjoys deep thinking, I am honestly delighted and feel a little bad when my coworkers talk about how much they hate it. I am definitely going to ask for a WFH day 1x/week when this is all over!

      1. Bunny Girl*

        Yeah we have a department meeting over video conference this afternoon. I’m not looking forward to hear an hour plus of everyone complaining about how much they hate working from home. Especially since it’s much harder for the faculty to push all their work off onto support staff since we don’t have the ability to help them as much with their online classes.

    8. Anon Anon*

      A little bit. I have a 3 month at home, and I came back from my maternity leave to work from home full-time. As horrible as this current situation is for the country and the world, working from home full-time has been a huge blessing as I adjust to a new baby and working. And I much prefer working from home. It’s far less stressful and I feel far more productive. But, I do feel horribly guilty about that.

      1. Artemesia*

        Good timing on the baby. A toddler is a nightmare for work from home, but a baby typically has a lot of sleep time and with any luck can be scheduled so you can get serious work time in. I worked at home when my oldest was a baby and it went very smoothly that first year — I had to get day care after that.

        1. Cat*

          I have a four-month-old and came back from maternity leave Wednesday. I guess it’s better than a toddler but it’s still an absolute nightmare.

          1. TyphoidMary (...my username seems in bad taste now)*

            same, Cat. Trying to get work done when the baby is napping in 30min-1hr intervals is rough (especially since I’m exhausted from not sleeping through the night; SOMEbody decided to have a sleep regression…)

            Solidarity to all the baby parents out there…whether this time has been a blessing or a strain!

          2. Extroverted Bean Counter*

            It’s SO dependent upon your baby. My first would have been a nightmare to try to work with (and I studied for most of the CPA exams with her at home it was… trying). She constantly needed to be held or entertained by an actual person, she was a crap sleeper, a never-napper, and always needed to be on the move in order to be happy. My second would have been a perfect WFH companion. He slept great at night from a very early age, took great and regular naps, and by and large was really happy to just hang out on a playmat or in a bouncer and look around at the world during his waking hours.

            Any time I see people talking about infants being “easy” (or at least “really not bad”) to work with, I assume they have a baby like #2 and have never experienced a baby like #1. It’s a folly to try and talk about babies/children in a general way.

          3. Lucy*

            I don’t think it’s that much better! The naps are less predictable, the feeds take a long time and you are probably feeling sleep deprived.

    9. Mangofan*

      I am on the cusp between introvert and extrovert but if you forced me to choose I’d definitely identify as an introvert — all of which to say, I wasn’t sure if the upsides of working from home would outweigh the downsides for me. Turns out they pretty definitively outweigh the downsides, even though I generally really like my co-workers — I am getting a little more sleep due to no commute, so I am generally happier and more energetic, and the small amount of persistent stress from working in an open office where people are always talking around me and someone could interrupt me at any moment is gone. And I get enough social interaction from virtual meetings. (If I had a role that was very light on meetings, this might be different.)

      My girlfriend (who lives separately from me) really needs a lot more social interaction, though, so I try not to exult about how happy I am to be working from home, because it’s a lot harder for her. Glad to have a place to bask in the glory of working from home :-)

      1. Bunny Girl*

        I live with my boyfriend and I have to say even though we are kind of stuck in the house together, our relationship has just been flourishing. I’m not anywhere near as stressed out from work so I’m happier. I can squeeze in more workout time so I’ve been energetic. And I need so little social interaction that by the time Thursday hits I’m exhausted and in a poor mood when I’m working in the office. None of that is happening now and there has been a lot of joy in our house, despite the circumstances.

      2. Roy G. Biv*

        I get you, MangoFan. I can ambivert as needed, but must be a true introvert, because I need the quiet downtime away from people to recharge. I have pinpointed my main problem with WFH — it means work has infringed upon my personal sanctuary. Aside from that, I’m still getting all the things done, and I think my newest team members are becoming more self sufficient, by finding answers to common work questions for themselves, instead of always asking the senior members. We’ll see if that newfound skill remains or evaporates once we’re back in the office.

        1. Bunny Girl*

          I get what you’re saying. That’s why I’ve kept my working hours even though a lot of other people in my department seem to be flexing their hours. I get a lot of emails late into the evening when I load everything up the next morning. I think a lot of people think if you’re working from home you should be available all the time, but I’ve still managed to keep the two very separate.

          1. Cloudy with sunny breaks*

            Very smart! I don’t have a separate office but I do close my laptop to signal end of workday. Although for your coworkers, it may not be that they expect you to be available so much as evenings are the times when they can work uninterrupted.

      3. Tau*

        Ambivert high-five! Although honestly, I might actually be a true extrovert beneath everything, but there are so many confounding factors that I don’t consider it a particularly useful distinction for me. WFH has been pretty awful so far and I dream of being able to be back in the office… but honestly, I’m glad some people are getting something positive out of it! Like, you all feeling guilty and trying to make yourself unhappy will not make this any better for me, you know?

    10. Anonymous Educator*

      The actual work-from-home experience I’ve been enjoying, but even though I’m an introvert, I still like being able to go places after work (the movies, a restaurant, a museum, etc.), and not being able to do that is a bummer.

      1. I Wrote This in the Bathroom*

        Not work-related, but I actually do like it that so many events I used to go to after work have now moved online. I hated hated hated having to leave work at 5 to drive across the metro area in any weather and in rush-hour traffic to make it to a 7 PM lecture on time.

      2. Bunny Girl*

        I’m a little ashamed to say that my day to day social life really hasn’t changed much. I’m a huge homebody. A freaking night to me was taking my puppy to the store to sniff something.

    11. AnotherAlison*

      I’m not particularly enjoying it, but I hold no ill will toward you for enjoying it!

      I have an extroverted 15 year old boy with ADHD doing school from home, a 22 yo college student back home, and a husband who can’t work from home but is only busy and out of the house about a quarter time. The work part is fine, it’s the rest.

      1. Not that Leia*

        Agreed! The WFH would be great if we we didn’t also have to provide full time childcare.

        1. Extroverted Bean Counter*

          Yes! I’m hopefully accepting an internal move soon and think I’m going to see if I can negotiate 1-2 WFH days when we go back to “normal” because the few hours I do get to concentrate on actually working are really great.

          Trying to take care of a 1 and 3 year old at the same time is nigh impossible, so this is an otherwise really stressful time for us. But if I could send the kids to daycare and WFH? Amazing.

      2. Myrin*

        Off-topic to this thread but I didn’t know you had a second child, Alison! I was fully aware of your older child but have absolutely no recollection of their brother, and I’m usually really good with details regulars post on sites I frequent. There are still surprises in this world!

    12. Corky's wife Bonnie*

      I don’t feel guilty at all and I’m enjoying working from home. I never thought I would, the first week was an adjustment period, I’m missing my second monitor, but now, I’m loving it! My husband is downstairs and I’m in an open loft. In the morning we stream our favorite radio station (the DJ’s are doing an AWESOME job keeping everyone’s spirits lifted), and the afternoon we do “playlists of the day.” We stream anything from Broadway Show tunes to Steely Dan to Adele. We have lunch together every day and at 5:01 it’s cocktail hour!

      1. Bunny Girl*

        I will admit I’m missing my 2nd monitor. We were allowed to take ours home but mine is on a dual set up and weighed an ungodly amount so I just decided against it.

    13. My boss made me walk across coals for a promotion*

      I don’t feel guilty per se, but I am impressed if that’s the right word? I was one of the “I will never WFH, I hate it so much, I enjoy working in the office.” I ended up having to WFH for about 2 weeks before getting laid off and to be honest, I did enjoy some of the minor perks. I’d still prefer to be in office around people, but now I realized that i can WFH and not have a rough time with it.

      1. The Rural Juror*

        I’m right there with you. Usually, I can’t work from home. I had to go pack up my desktop to bring to my house so I could have a workspace. I’ve been doing ok, performance-wise, but I actually prefer going to the office. I like my job, I like my coworkers, and I’m missing the routine of going in and seeing people.

    14. wfh*

      I understand where you’re coming from. There is dysfunction where I work, too. The derailers still derail, but at least now, once the meeting’s over, I don’t have a day of derailment ahead of me. Without the dumpster fire surrounding me, I’m so much happier in my work and a lot more productive.

    15. I Wrote This in the Bathroom*

      (raises hand) we had several people in the leadership, who are no longer with the company but the culture they’d created still lives on, who had an irrational aversion to WFH and were cracking down on it the entire time they were at the company. Given that the team itself is spread out across the country, and we’ve historically had people on our teams that are/were 100% remote, it made no sense. But the fact remained that we were expected to very very rarely ask for wfh, and when we did, we had to send an email to our manager(s) with a valid reason why we want to wfh on this day, and then literally ask permission. (You couldn’t say “I have a mid-day doctor’s appointment and will wfh the rest of the day”, your email had to have the words “May I work from home today because I have a mid-day dr appointment?”) We hardly ever had in-person meetings because again, half the attendees were halfway across country, and/or our small meeting rooms could not hold everyone invited. I honestly do not know why it was so important for us to come into work every morning! WFH changed nothing in our day-to-day work, it is much quieter with fewer distractions (don’t know why so many people in the office liked to park in front of random coworkers’ desks or in front of open office doors in hallways, to have loud impromptu hallway meetings). I’m saving on the commute, gas, wear, and tear on my car. I have my own office with a door and windows that open… It is glorious. I just wish it was for a better reason. It actually would be really nice if, after this is all over, the acceptance of people being fully or mostly wfh remains.

      1. Coffee Bean*

        Your company has such an archaic and asinine stance on working from home. Your company’s leadership should realize that a largely WFH employee population will cut overhead costs.

    16. The Original K.*

      I like it and I don’t feel guilty about it. There are a lot of things about the state of the world right now, including social distancing/isolation, that I really don’t like, but working at home isn’t one of them. I’m saving money and time by not commuting and I can get chores done during the day. (I don’t have kids or a spouse so I don’t have the “everyone is here ALL THE TIME” feeling of frustration my parent friends describe.) The only thing is that I wish I had a home office so there was more of a separation of home and work (I typically work at my desk in the corner of my living room), but other than that I’m good as far as working from home goes.

      1. Bunny Girl*

        I work at a University and on the first floor of our building is a visitors center. It’s in another department and I have nothing to do with it. I’m on an upper floor of our building but I still had people from the visitors center wander up through the other offices and interrupt me all. the. time. Now I just get interruptions from my animals, who are infinitely cuter and much more well mannered.

    18. ToodleOodleWhordleOrdle*

      Aside from the existential nightmare of WORK being INSIDE MY HOUSE now, I can’t deny that my house is a much pleasanter place to be than my office. My nearest office neighbor is very irritating and I was deep into into Bitch Eating Crackers territory with him, but now I haven’t seen or spoken to him in 2 weeks! It’s fantastic! Also my cat had surgery recently, and being home means I can keep an eye on him. I’m very anxious for This All To Be Over, but for relationship/personal sanity/humanity’s well being reasons, not work ones. I’m in no hurry to return to my office.
      The whole situation is so horrible that any joy we can find feels weird, but enjoying a break from unpleasant coworkers is perfectly reasonable, and the information that your “work anxiety” might be mostly “environmental/Those People anxiety” is valuable.

      1. Bunny Girl*

        On another note I was seeing a therapist for work related stress a few months back and I tried to explain to her that I had Bitch Eating Crackers syndrome with about everyone I worked with and she was like ….What???

      2. I Wrote This in the Bathroom*

        Work’s been on and off inside my house since 20 years and three jobs ago. (One of the reasons why I always try to designate a space in my home as a home office, as much as the living space allows.) It might sound odd that the same leadership would be dead set against WFH and all in favor of being able to contact you at all hours in case they needed you to get some work done, but that’s the way things have been at most of my workplaces.

        I’m very anxious for This All To Be Over, but for relationship/personal sanity/humanity’s well being reasons, not work ones. I’m in no hurry to return to my office.

        Same, same.

    19. !*

      I am also an introvert as others have posted here and so have no issues working from home and not being constantly interrupted by my boss yelling my name or calling my phone, or people stopping by my cubicle to give me something to do. I have the ability to concentrate on one issue at a time (for the most part). While we do have Lync, I am redirecting people to the normal channels for assistance, and not answering my cell phone and sending emails redirecting people to the normal channels for assistance. All the normal channels for support are there, not sure why people think it’s any different now. We are definitely a butts in seats organization, but we also had a technophobe for a CEO, the new CEO is far more accepting and is amazed by how well the transition has gone. We have almost 100% of our office folks working from home, our field personnel is only taking emergencies. Unfortunately, the powers that be could still do better, we had a temp working in the office who was diagnosed with Covid-19, she works in the same area as a woman having chemo (who was also coming into the office, but not on the same days as the temp). So now she and others in that location are quarantined and working from home. They should have been home from the GET go.

    20. Aggretsuko*

      I enjoy it, except for all the meetings because we HAVE TO HAVE TO HAVE TO COMMUNICATE COMMUNICATE COMMUNICATE!!!!! Those are exhausting and I have to have a bare minimum of 3 Zoom meetings/phone calls a day.

      Literally I just had 3 Zoom meeting scheduled on me within the last 5 minutes.

      1. Bunny Girl*

        We just had our first department Zoom meeting scheduled for this afternoon. I’m really hoping we don’t have a million more.

      2. Djuna*

        I had four solid hours with 6 back to back Zoom meetings the other day. It was horrible.
        People just seem to be setting meetings for everything because they’re bored, because at least half those meetings really could have been emails. I literally had people who were in a few of those meetings with me pinging me on Slack to say “OMG WHY ALL THE MEETINGS?!” so I know it wasn’t just me being grumpy.

      3. Tau*

        The meetings, oh god. /o\ My company just took all our meetings to video conference, and I find them sooo exhausting and half the time I can’t focus on what anyone is saying. In desperation I started secretly knitting during a call where I wasn’t going to speak last week in hopes it would help me not zone out after half a sentence. (Worked fairly well, actually, or at least it took longer until I lost the thread completely.) I’m not sure if this is just a me thing or not – I also have a lot of difficulty with podcasts and audiobooks, and don’t watch movies or TV – but it suuuucks.

        Especially annoying because I do miss the social interaction from the office and we have some chitchat meetings on the schedule, but by the time they roll around I am usually like “if you try to put me in front of one more camera I will begin gnawing off my own limbs to escape.”

      4. Seeking Second Childhood*

        Look up the ArsTechnica coverage on Zoom security flaws… my IT guy husband has banned it from the house for now. It’s got problems on all operating systems.
        Which stinks because I was using it with two social groups already.

    21. Please Exit Through The Rear Door*

      I am. Right before COVID hit, I was actually thinking about approaching my HR department about taking a leave of absence to work on my writing for a few months and clear my head. My anxiety had risen to a dangerous level. My job becoming remote solved the problem.

      I really, really don’t want to return to work. To make matters worse, I work in a position where I will be directly working with people trying to find jobs and when the world eventually re-starts, it looks like we’re going to have a situation that will make the Great Recession look like a piece of cake. I can’t imagine how stressful it’s going to be. I really, really am dreading it.

      But for now, there’s not much remote work and I have downtime. I’ve banged out tens of thousands of words for my novel in the past three weeks. And I’m positively wracked with guilt that I’m benefiting from a global pandemic that is killing people by the thousands and turning others’ lives totally upside down. But that’s basically the situation for me.

      1. Bunny Girl*

        This is my situation too. My direct supervisor is an angel and when I started this job she told me she is perfectly fine with me working on my own homework as long as I was available to help with anything. I’ve got quite a bit of downtime too, but I immediately drop my own work when I get an email in.

      2. Batgirl*

        You’re not benefiting at anyone’s expense; you are keeping calm and carrying on. That’s what you’re supposed to do!

    22. RabbitRabbit*

      I feel bad that I’m not feeling bad. Sort of. Not really.

      A colleague used to complain when we would use the group text too much (sharing pet pics and such). Now that we’re all WFH he added extra people in the office to the texting, started doing a daily round of good mornings/etc. and after about a week of that found he was getting autoresponses that someone had blocked him!

      1. Bunny Girl*

        I’ve directed my coworkers to my Google Voice number, so there is no texting. I’ve maintained my office hours because I do well on that schedule, but a lot of my coworkers have started working later and I didn’t want phone calls and texts on my personal cell phone at 9 or 10 at night.

    23. submerged tenths*

      Unfortunately, my job is a) not do-able anywhere but AT work and b) in an “essential” business. Much as i’m grateful to still be earning a paycheck, i would *love* to be at home during the day!

    24. Quiltrrr*

      I am in the same situation. I LOVE working from home (although it’s a little different than I envisioned with my teens not in school). I’m an introvert, my boss was not in the office that much anyway, and it was just the 2 of us on my team. So, I love working from home, but obviously don’t like the overall reason why. I have done some strong hinting to my boss that we should push for staying home even after this is all done. It would be of great benefit to him as well with his medical conditions.

      1. Windchime*

        We recently got a new CIO and I think he is going to make some serious changes. Most of our very large IT department has been WFH for 4 weeks now and we are getting stuff done at an amazing rate, especially in light of the virus (we are a hospital system). The other day, he mentioned in a staff meeting that, when this is over, they will be re-evaluating how much office space we will actually need for staff because of WFH. The way he said it made me think that it might be possible for some people to become full time WFH. I am very optimistic.

        Oh, and I’m loving WFH. I feel like I’m living a real schedule, like a real person. I don’t have to go to bed at 8:30 and wake up at 4:30. I’m not filling my car up every week and pouring money into parking. Not sitting in traffic 2 hours a day. It’s awesome.

        1. No Going Back*

          A lot of businesses are going to be reevaluating. Our IT support company is going to permanently move half of their support people to WFH and rent smaller offices. Another company I talked to is discussing moving all their phone tech support to WFH. My own employer was very resistant to WFH (law office). They only had the setup so people could WFH on nights and weekends, as an addition to being in the office. The younger associates had been asking for WFH days for years, but the older partners just couldn’t get past “lawyers work in offices in office buildings” Now we’re 100% WFH and billing 25% more hours. I think it’s that all the random socializing around the office was taking up that much time, lol.

          Government offices are getting into it, too, although time will tell if the current changes will remain after the pandemic passes. For now, states and federal agencies are allowing applications to be filed electronically that had to be paper before. Some states already allowed virtual annual meetings, others are rushing to pass legislation to allow it. (The average age of people who actually show up to annual stockholder meetings is probably 75, so both the companies and the regulators are desperate to come up with alternatives.) Other states are simply putting business on hold, refusing to allow mergers and acquisitions, but that seems to have been the answer when they thought it would all be over with by Easter. The longer the pandemic continues, the more states will have to come up with electronic solutions to their problems, and once they allow it, why go back?

        2. Seeking Second Childhood*

          My office could cut my department’s space by 50% if they let us each WFH 2 days/week. Get us used to no paper, and we’d have no reason not to share a space one day a week–much of which would be doing in-house planning sessions with other departments anyway!

    25. BlackBelt Jones*

      Guilty?!?

      So many jobs can be done BETTER from home with much less stress, traffic, expense…the list goes on and on!
      To me, it’s company management that should feel guilty!

    26. KayDeeAye*

      I am also kind of enjoying it – not all of it (oh, for my in-office, high-speed internet! oh, for the ability to met with people I actually want to meet with!), but an awful lot of it, and this despite the fact that I like and get along with almost all my coworkers. But I love having a 20-second commute, I love the flexibility, I love wearing sweatpants to work, I love oh, so many things, and yeah, I’m going to miss quite a few aspects when this is all over. I have often thought to myself how much I’d like to work from home a couple of days a week, and dang it, I was right. I hope to use the proof that this can indeed work as leverage later one when I open the “Can I work from home fairly often?” conversation.

    27. Miranda Priestly's Assistant*

      Yep. I don’t feel so much guilty about enjoying it as the fact that I get to WFH when so many people are losing jobs right and left. Also, while I like teleworking, I’m not immune to the general anxiety and mourning of the shit our country/world is going through. It’s not like I get to work at home and then go to happy hour. It’s not normal times right now.

    28. AwsomeRandGMom*

      I am crazy enjoying the time work from home, saving much time & money not commuting and don’t feel exhausted at the end of every work day.

      1. Bunny Girl*

        Yes! I’m loving not having a commute. Mine wasn’t horrible but it was 15-20 minutes of stop and go traffic, which uses up your gas more than you imagine. Plus I went home every day over lunch to let me dog out.

    29. Dee Dee*

      Yeah… I am already starting to think about if, when the office opens up again, I can just keep on doing it. Not 100% of the time, but most of the time? That would be nice. I’m eating better, I’m exercising more, I have more time with my family… My main stressor is that with my son at home, my wife (who always works from home anyway) and I are now also educators, but if I didn’t have that additional responsibility on my plate I’d probably quite enjoy this.

    30. Not So NewReader*

      If it were me, I’d go with this is a sink or swim situation and I have decided to swim. It’s okay not to feel guilty that you are enjoying it.

      Perhaps they are not enjoying it because there is no one around to treat like crap.

      Try to think of it as you are adaptable person who manages adversity. Years ago I read employees who flex will make out the best over the long run. This, combined with the fact that there are people who need to maliciously gossip and generally be nasty in order to get through their workday and they are not getting their daily “fix” of that. Those people will not make out as well as you and that is on them, not you. You do not need to feel guilty for having good survival skills. You get your energy from positive settings and you adapt/flex well under stressful events. Chin up, keep going.

      1. Bunny Girl*

        Good advice! And yes I think part of the issue is half the people are like What the heck I don’t have anyone to verbally abuse anymore :( and the other half are just mad that they can’t push every single duty off on us since we don’t have the same permissions to take care of their online classes.

      2. Lisa*

        “Perhaps they are not enjoying it because there is no one around to treat like crap.”

        What the heck does this sentence mean? I agree that its of course good to be adaptable, flexible, etc. But I hope that you have positive interactions with people in your life.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Some people cannot get through their work day without drama. It’s how they energize themselves so they can make it to quitting time. If there is not any naturally occurring upheaval they will try to generate some. They stand out like sore thumbs to the rest of us, as we call them drama llamas or crisis mongers, etc.

      3. Tau*

        Perhaps they are not enjoying it because there is no one around to treat like crap.

        I hope I’m misreading this? Not everyone who doesn’t like WFH and prefers to be in the office is a malicious bully. Or terribly inflexible and doomed to failure. Can we just go with “people are different, what works for some doesn’t work for others, let’s hope that once this is over as many people as possible can work in their preferred way”?

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Yep, this is just about OP’s situation.
          At the very top of this thread OP says, ” my coworkers are overall really awful people and I don’t have to see them at all…”
          Righ,t this would not apply to the average person who is stressed/tired/etc and works at home. OP has indicated her cohorts carried a lot of discord before all this happened.

          1. Bunny Girl*

            You are unfortunately correct. We have one faculty member who is a serial sexual harasser, and a lot of the other ones are what I would probably call verbally abusive or otherwise just unpleasant in generaly.

          2. Tau*

            Understood! Sorry for overreacting – I’ve been sensitive about this and should have remembered OP’s context.

      4. Mina, The Company Prom Queen*

        I agree. I’ve worked with people like this throughout my career. They are awful. It’s nice when you don’t have to deal with them daily.

    31. Niniel*

      No, you’re definitely not alone. I also love it!! I’m not looking forward to going back to the office. Most of my anxiety is definitely social anxiety, and it’s great to not have to deal with people all. the. time. And I don’t have to endure the hour plus commute time every day, and I get to take a long walk after lunch!! It’s all so glorious, and I wish we could carry some semblance of this into the After-COVID time.

    32. weird of hermiston*

      Yes! I have more energy and less stress due to fewer sensory overloads and having to be ready for anyone who walks up to my cube. Just not having to be on and in uncomfortable clothes is a relief. Being able to practice my guitar and take walks during lunch is wonderful. We live in a rural area and there was a full 5 minutes I stood outside this morning and didn’t hear any cars. I am definitely interacting more with coworkers, though- our IMs are almost constantly busy so I feel like I’m communicating even more than usual. But that’s less pressure too because I don’t have to figure out what facial expressions mean and what I’m doing. I also have multiple cats and people in the house, so I’m not really lonely.

    33. NoviceManagerGuy*

      My six-year-old said to me the other day “I’m having a great time, but I wish it were for a different reason.”

      Don’t feel any guilt! I’ve been WFH for almost 8 years so this is nothing different for me but WFH is really great for many people!

    34. Snow*

      I put off working from home because I needed access to the company wifi, so I’ve been working from home a week less than the rest of my colleagues. Some say they miss work and talking to people but I am genuinely thriving. I AM SO HAPPY. And I just got out of a stressful slump where I would have anxiety from work, but it’s all gone now. No one is interrupting me, I don’t have to sit in on stuffy meetings in rooms with no air. I might have to change my stance on freelance work after this.

    35. Academic Librarian*

      Absolutely! I feel great, but I keep thinking, why is everyone so worked up about this work from home thing? I think I’m having no trouble because I live alone and am used to being solitary, so it doesn’t bother me. I can get much more work done. Plus I don’t have to worry about packing a lunch!

      Oh yes, I decided to go ahead and dye my hair lavender as I mentioned a couple of weeks ago. The color is nice, but it’s semi permanent so I will have to re-dye every week or so. It doesn’t seem to show up in a picture or on Zoom, so no one at work has commented on it yet.

      1. Bunny Girl*

        Haha! I was thinking the same thing. My hair is currently platinum blonde but I’ve had pink hair in the past and I missed it. But since I’ve been working from home I’ve been thinking about bringing it back!

    36. Sleepy*

      Yes, I am actually enjoying it. Weirdly, what I miss most about working from the office is…my commute! I’m a bike commuter and getting that fresh air before and after work was great for my mental health.

      What I love the most is getting to see my husband in the morning. He has a 1.5 hr commute each way so he usually would leave before I was even awake, now we get to have coffee together.

    37. Debbie Downer*

      No, I don’t feel guilty and I’m not even working from home. I’m on “Safety Leave Due to Emergency Conditions” so I’m not working, but still getting paid. That said, I’m too anxious to enjoy the time off.

      If anything, I’m annoyed with my employer. I really think they should just shut down altogether for a couple of more weeks to allow the pandemic to peak before they call us back to work. They’ve done pathetically little to protect employees from the virus. (There was a hand sanitizing dispenser placed near the elevator, although most employees use the stairs located far away from the elevator, and they seemed to be cleaning the restrooms more often as the smell of cleaning chemicals was noticeable before I left.)

      I swear that they won’t be happy until there’s an outbreak in our local office and then they are forced to shut down. To make matters worse, I’ve been called back to work on Monday, even though I have several issues that make me considered to be at high-risk.

    38. AnonEMoose*

      I’m not enjoying the situation, but I am enjoying the time at home. And my company is being very proactive and supportive of the employees and their families, so I feel very fortunate in that respect, especially seeing how some other companies are responding to all of this.

    39. Elle*

      WFH is the bit I’m not enjoying, but professionally, this situation is fantastic for me, and yeah, I feel a bit guilty!

    40. ellex42*

      I am LOVING working from home, and said so on a work-wide platform when a general question was sent out about how we were coping with it.

      The office I work in is open – ridiculously so – and we on longer have cubicles, just desks, and the amount of noise is absolutely ridiculous. You would think that everyone being able to see/hear everyone else’s business would keep people quiet and at least pretending to work, but no – it’s even worse than it used to be.

      Now I can actually hear myself think! And while I still sometimes put off a particularly difficult assignment for tomorrow (or next week), I feel much more able to do the research and am able to concentrate. And while I know that a lot of my coworkers prefer face-to-face instructions, I learn much better by reading, so it’s much easier to learn something new or get instructions on a problem when my manager has to write it down.

      My coworkers are nice people, but they talk – a lot – and I do very poorly in noisy environments.

      My family has also noticed, unasked and unprompted, that my stress levels are much lower. I also find that I’m stress-eating less, and far more likely to have the energy to exercise.

      I’m trying to get a bit of extra work done and desperately hoping that when we can go back to the office, our formerly WFH-resistant management sees that some of us, at least, really do better that way, and they allow more freedom to WFH.

    41. Saffie Girl*

      I have also really been enjoying working from home and am getting further on a lot of my projects than I have in a long time. I know some of my co-workers are having a much harder time, but I’ve realized that a significant amount of my time in the office is spent getting pulled into others problems that aren’t truly mine to solve.

      I think some of their struggle is that they are having to learn parts of their job that they never really figured out, and my boss has been great turning their requests for assistance back on themselves (previously I would get a lot of random requests in the halls, not in the proper meetings). So now, I’m far less stressed as I can focus on my work, but some of my co-workers are more stressed as they now have to fix their own problems.

    42. Observer*

      No reason to feel guilty. They say that misery loves company, but I don’t buy it. Now,if you enjoyed the fact that they don’t like it, that would be ugly. But the ability to adapt, enjoy things that others don’t as long as you are not hurting them, and find silver linings are all GOOD things.

      Just don’t gloat and shove this in people’s faces.

    43. Tau*

      Don’t feel guilty! I am pretty much miserable at WFH myself – it basically takes all my really carefully built up coping mechanisms for keeping my disability from affecting my work which were working very well thank you, sets them on fire and then stomps on the ashes – but, y’know, you feeling guilty will not improve anything for me, and it’s nice to know that people are gaining something positive from this! Like, how terrible would it be if *all* of us were miserable.

    44. Mad Harry Crewe*

      My therapist pointed out that it can be really helpful to acknowledge nice things, even when the situation overall sucks – like “yes there’s a pandemic, but I’m having a really nice day” is not a contradiction. This is not the suffering olympics.

    45. Sparrow*

      Same – I always thought I’d hate working from home full time, but I kind of love it now that I have an actual desk set up. My job was always very independent anyway, and I get at least as much done at home as I did in the office. If I could just do stuff in the evenings, it would be great! Honestly I’m already dreading having to commute again, because getting that 90 minutes a day back has made way more of a difference than I ever imagined. And I have way more social energy in the evenings to video chat with friends who are struggling a lot more with the isolation, so I’m trying to pay it forward a bit.

    46. Mina, The Company Prom Queen*

      There is absolutely no reason to feel guilty for enjoying working from home. I work from home and prefer it over having to go to an office everyday. I don’t know why some people try to make monsters of people who prefer to WFH. I like my coworkers just fine (well, most of them anyway), but prefer the distance working from home provides. If you’re communicating and are available as reasonably needed, that should be fine. Don’t let socially needy people shame you into feeling guilty about enjoying WFH.

      1. Mina, The Company Prom Queen*

        To clarify, it’s totally okay to prefer working in the office. Just don’t make monsters of people who prefer to WFH. :)

  8. Sharkie*

    Hey guys. So some of you my remember that my company banned work from home during all of this…. well instead of letting us work from home they decided to lay 80% of us off. It was honestly a textbook what not to do when you lay people off. It was so disorganized that they didn’t ask for my keys to the building or my company credit card. It’s been a week and I’m ok but numb you know. At least they are going to have to tell future candidates that instead of working from home during this crisis they just laid people off to save money on laptops.

    1. Sharkie*

      OH AND I FORGOT THE KICKER. 90% of my fellow lay-off employees didn’t get any type of severance, which ok whatever, but there are about 5 people who got severance that weren’t supposed to!

      1. Diahann Carroll*

        OMG, this is awful. I’m sorry you lost your job – I hope you land on your feet with something better like OP #6 in this morning’s post.

        1. Sharkie*

          Thanks, I already had an interview for a position I am somewhat excited about this morning and am moving to the second round. :)

        2. A New Level of Anon*

          OP#6 is a unicorn. As happy as I was for them, it’s not something I wanted to see because it’s such an unrealistic outcome for the rest of us.

    2. Mama Bear*

      I agree that it was a really bad misstep. I’m sorry you got laid off at this time.

      And I agree that anyone looking for a job should absolutely ask how they handled this crisis.

    3. Anono-me*

      That sounds like a very horrible experience for you and your coworkers. I hope you are able to take good care of yourself and your loved ones.

      Actually, with a 80% +/- layoff it may have made more sense and been cheaper to cancel any company credit cards and to rekey the locks than to pay to have everyone turn them in and do the paperwork. It certainly should be better from a virus prevention standpoint. (Although given what you said this reasoning for doing so may not apply to your company.)

      1. Sharkie*

        Thankfully I am in a great spot (mid 20’s, single, no kids) and I have safety nets/ got severance so if I am very careful I can be jobless for a bit. And my company just forgot to ask for it back lol. They actually thanked me for being honest about it and not putting bills on it. I don’t think canceling the cards and changing the electronic locks ever occurred to them. They just decided to lay us off 30 minutes before it started apparently

        1. Mad Harry Crewe*

          Wow, I’m really glad they put a lot of thought and strategic planning into how and why they were going to upend a ton of people’s lives for the long-term survival of their organization.

          Alternatively: What, if your fellow CEOs jumped off a bridge, would you jump too?

    4. I'm A Little Teapot*

      Um, is that business even going to survive? And thank goodness for unemployment, so at least everyone will have some money coming in.

      2. Sharkie*

        I have no clue. This week was supposed to be our big sales meeting where everyone from all the international locations got together to talk about how last year was our best year ever by tens of millions, get the large christmas/ easter bonus we all earned and talk about raises (I was only one of 2 women in the department and we were both underpaid by a lot). I don’t get how they can go from that to “OMG WE HAVE 2 WEEKS OF SLOW SALES WE ARE GOING UNDER!!!!!” so quickly.

        1. Anono-me*

          Please see your above comment about everyone (large group and good bonuses) about to get bonuses. I suspect the timing it was not that accidental and that everyone still with the company will still get bonuses (small group and fantastic bonuses).

          Also, I am glad that you are in a strong position to get through this and move forward.

    5. Parenthetically*

      “At least they are going to have to tell future candidates that instead of working from home during this crisis they just laid people off to save money on laptops.”

      I pray all the time for a MAJOR RECKONING to come out of this. Honestly, we are so due.

      1. Fikly*

        I dunno, I feel like companies who are fine with acting this way are the same companies who would not disclose that they acted this way in the future.

        They’re not going to tell anyone unless forced. Thus the importance of Glassdoor and other sources of information for what really happened.

    6. Mazzy*

      At least they are going to have to tell future candidates that instead of working from home during this crisis they just laid people off to save money on laptops.

      Exactly, this really hits me, and one day them, in the gut

    7. Fake Old Converse Shoes (not in the US)*

      Oh nooooo. I’m sorry about your job. And I wish this hits them hard.

      1. Sharkie*

        Don’t worry clients are raising hell. Apparently my email is still on so there is no out of office messages letting clients know I am no longer there. My land line is still up too so clients think I am ignoring them, so they are starting to call me on my personal phone. My clients love me so they are giving my bosses grief.

        1. Picard*

          If you still have access to your emails, put an out of office auto responder saying you were laid off and to contact (I dunno) your CEO for any needs. hahahaha

        2. Observer*

          That’s just mind blowing.

          They are idiots. But at least it looks like it’s going to bite them in a big way.

    9. Iron Chef Boyardee*

      Sharkie wrote: “At least they are going to have to tell future candidates that instead of working from home during this crisis they just laid people off to save money on laptops.”

      Fikly responded: “I feel like companies who are fine with acting this way are the same companies who would not disclose that they acted this way in the future.”

      I agree with Fikly. People have been saying that one of the questions they’re going to ask employers in future job interviews is, ‘how did you deal with the coronavirus situation?’ But I’m thinking that unless the way they handled things is already a matter of public record, no company is going to honestly say anything to indicate they acted in a manner that put their own interests first.

      And if you find out after you start working for them that they lied, what then?

    10. Thankful for AAM*

      So sorry!
      I feel like there should be a special part of glassdoor to “out” employers who handled this badly, not those who were tryi g and got it wrong but this kind of terrible move.

    11. MissDisplaced*

      “At least they are going to have to tell future candidates that instead of working from home during this crisis they just laid people off to save money on laptops.”

      Oh you KNOW they will lie about that!
      Post your reviews on Glassdoor and Indeed and get others to do the same.

  9. Oh No She Di'int*

    Ahhhh… stretching out in an office all alone! (We’re an essential business with a policy of one person in the office at a time.) Just found the Office Manager’s secret stash of office Cheez-Its, and she is powerless to stop me!! Enjoy your Fridays everyone!

          1. Oh No She Di'int*

            Yep. Individual little packets. There’s usually a supply of them in the break room, but because no one’s been in much, she hadn’t replenished them in a while.

    2. Western Rover*

      Our break room tripped a breaker when everyone was working from home and it might have been up to two days before it was reset. I had forgotten to take my food home from the fridge and I hope for the thief’s sake nobody steals it.

      1. RabbitRabbit*

        I haven’t been at my workplace since the 12th and am sincerely hoping that someone chucked the entire contents of the fridge into the garbage before we all abandoned ship. Because, yikes.

        1. WellRed*

          I did this at my office as I was one of the last there. I also like cleaning out the office fridge, though.

          1. RabbitRabbit*

            I mean, we do it weekly on a rotating schedule. But our fridge was undersized for our office and we would get people who’d store a few days’ worth of lunches or similar, so it was usually packed pretty full even when clean.

    3. New Job So Much Better*

      Yay for secret Cheez-its! My boss and I came back after a conference once to find the employee “watching the store” had searched, found and devoured every food item in the office. Hilarious.

  10. C.J.*

    I work in food service. We can’t work from home and my work is still open for carry out, drive-through and delivery orders. An employee got coronavirus. Everyone who works here was immediately sent home and the entire restaurant had to be cleaned within an inch of its life by a special cleaning company. We were all in self-isolation as were any of our family members or friends we had been in contact with. It turns out she lied. She doesn’t have coronavirus and the note was a forgery. All of us worried about ourselves and our families for nothing. She got arrested by police over it and the provincial public health unit is also investigating her. My work is open again but everyone is still really nervous and on edge now. I know there is probably nothing I can do, but is there anything that I can do to try and make the other employees feel better?
    I hope everyone here at AAM is taking care during these times.

      1. C.J.*

        I’m not sure how she was caught. Something happened to get the police involved but I was at home in self-isolation so I have no clue how it went down.

    2. Also an Elizabeth*

      I get why she would be fired, but why would the police get involved or care about this? I can’t believe they would arrest someone for this.

      1. ina garten's giant cocktail*

        yeahhh i can see how she’d be civilly liable for cleaning costs, etc. but that’s a huge overstep on the cops’ part (not that that’s anything unusual in the US). it’s like how the cops in rhode island are going door to door looking for new yorkers who left the state. this stuff just CANNOT be criminalized or else the most vulnerable populations will suffer more than they are already.

        1. ina garten's giant cocktail*

          i want to stress that what she did was absolutely terrible though, and i wish you and your coworkers the best, CJ

          1. ina garten's giant cocktail*

            you’re totally right, but unfortunately, over-policing is a problem worldwide

        4. Not So NewReader*

          Too late for that, I think. I suspect more than a few people will find they are up on charges if they fiddly-fart around with stuff too much.

          We have precedents: Someone mentioned yelling “fire” in a theater. Also, don’t say the word “bomb” at an airport.

          People are being held accountable for that they say, you know, like real adults. If there is no fire/bomb/covid then don’t say there IS.

        5. AnonForReasons*

          New Yorkers “riding it out” in Rhode Island are not exactly the most marginalized people out there. It’s not as though a housing project got together and went to Providence. It’s rich idiots who want to continue to live their rich lives the same way they do in the city, with total disregard for anyone else.

          1. Not So NewReader*

            They are cleaning off our grocery store shelves for us up here. Those of us who can only buy one roll of TP per week are SOL.

        6. LJay*

          I’m guessing since they said the provincial police department that C.J. is not in the US.

        7. Observer*

          There is a huge difference between trying to criminalize people going from one state to another (in the US), and lying about exposure to a pandemic illness. The latter IS something that can (and should, imo) be criminalized as we treat fraud and endangering public safety as crimes.

      3. Jedi Squirrel*

        Forging medical records is pretty serious business.

        But seriously, if she is brazen enough to do this, she probably pulled some other crap that got her arrested. Who knows?

          1. pnw dweller*

            exactly. The doctor, who’s name she forged, could be the one driving this. It is very not okay to forge a doctor’s note- which I think would be a universal issued, not just a US one. I can also think of the health department (however the local equivalent is named) , they might have been trying to locate everyone the employee came in contact with. Such a waste of resources. Hope OP’s restaurant is able to recover. the public may be unwilling to trust that it’s safe to eat from there.

      4. Sunflower*

        They are taking this stuff extremely seriously- I’m sure they could make the charges stick somehow no matter how ridiculous given the economy and people’s state are fragile enough as is. This is probably a bigger deal but they did arrest a woman in NJ for saying she had COVID and coughing on produce in a grocery store even though they aren’t sure if the woman actually had it. The store had to throw out $35,000 worth of food.

        1. My boss made me walk across coals for a promotion*

          And rightfully they should.

          A guy went around walmart licking items, and said he had COVID. One of those stupid viral things (like teens licking ice cream last summer). Last I read he was arrested and charged with terrorism. Doubt it’ll stick but at least good for law enforcement for taking it seriously.

          1. Junimo the Hutt*

            Not far from our Wal-Mart licker, another person coughed on others and wrote “COVID” in a fogged glass door at a dollar store. He was also charged with “making terroristic threats” (which my law school pal tells me is not the same thing as being charged with terrorism). I would like people in my state to stop making the news in this manner, but I’m glad the police are taking measures to protect essential workers.

            1. Artemesia*

              Saw a video of some jerk opening bottle after bottle of juice, taking a sip and then capping and putting back on the shelves. Yeah put this guy and those like this in jail and let them run the risks there.

          2. Sunflower*

            I totally agree. I think normally issues and citations that wouldn’t stick are getting taken seriously. I hadn’t thought or made the connection before but I think police can and should be able to treat some COVID claims and actions as terrorist threats.

          3. Elizabeth West*

            That happened in my state, which is also where the guy took the AR-15 to Walmart to make a point, and the gun thing happened in OldCity where I used to live. Way to make employees feel even less safe.

            This place seems determined to win the trophy for State Containing the Most Stupid Idiots.

            1. Junimo the Hutt*

              My favorite part of the story was that his mother and girlfriend both told him explicitly NOT to do this and he still made Surprised Pikachu Face when arrested.

        2. MsChanandlerBong*

          That was in Pennsylvania. :) It was my home county. Now you can see why I moved 2,000 miles away, lol!

      5. Anonymous Canadian*

        I am really going to hope this is the same case as my town (because I’m really hoping 2 people haven’t done the same thing). In that case the person was charged with mischief over $5,000, fraud under $5,000, using a forged document and making a forged document. I guess they want to set an example to discourage others?

        1. Diahann Carroll*

          Yup – and I’m in full support of this. Now is not the time for assholes to be doing “pranks” like this.

        2. Anon in Ontario*

          This sounds exactly like a case that happened in my town… and like you, I am really hoping that it’s the only one of its kind out there right now!

          This case took a huge tool on the mental health of many people (it was a very busy restaurant, with a lot of staff), and cost many (already low-waged and often precariously employed) workers a lot of lost income.

          C.J.: I’m sorry that that happened to you. Things were already stressful enough as-is. I have no useful advice, but I wish you and your coworkers luck.

      6. Humble Schoolmarm*

        My province has been posting lists of public gatherings with possible exposures so that anyone who was there at that time and is showing symptoms can get tested. Lying about a co-vid exposure means that many people (depending on how busy the business is) could be lining up (with other infected people) for unnecessary tests.

        1. Diahann Carroll*

          I didn’t even think about that angle – she definitely deserves to be arrested in that case.

      7. Sara without an H*

        I think C.J. is writing from Canada (“provincial”), and I know nothing about local laws there. This may, indeed, be a jailable offense there.

        Here in the Lower 48, laws vary, depending on the situation and how panicked the authorities are.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          We have seen this with AIDS people would spit at others then announce they had AIDS- which may or may not have been true.
          But back then it was decided that this is clearly a threat. The intent is to do harm either by scaring people or actually infecting them.
          Spit guards are used on defendants who have a history of using spit as a weapon.

            2. Not So NewReader*

              At that time society was not certain about that. I was reaching back decades for that example, I should have said that. We did land on recognizing spit being used like a weapon. It’s to the point that authorities have spit guards for difficult defendants.

          2. Penny Parker*

            To give a touch of history here, although I am coming in late. The government first dealt with a spitting case being declared “assault and battery” when Ben Masel, R.I.P. (cannabis activist; Yippie; and one of my best friends and my old mentor) was prosecuted by the U.S. government because he spit in Sen Henry (Scoop) Jackson’s face during a demonstration. This was taken through the appellate level at the 7th Circuit. The government’s case was supported by the fact that sex offenses can occur without injury yet still be a form of battery. The incident happened in 1976 and the appellate court ruled in 1977. You can read it here, if this link is allowed through. Since then spitting at someone has been considered an assault and battery case in U.S. law.
            https://books.google.com/books?id=jUHgttOMUIoC&pg=PA3&lpg=PA3&dq=ben+masel+spit&source=bl&ots=qDGbFUHJKP&sig=ACfU3U2dfNW5W5VRvvvx5uYlvGg24xmT1Q&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjv8Jutu9HoAhWUbc0KHULcAOAQ6AEwBnoECAsQKQ#v=onepage&q=ben%20masel%20spit&f=false

      9. Jules the 3rd*

        It’s easy to find this, and according to the news story:

        “There has been a significant impact on the restaurant, local customers and employees which instigated the need for police involvement,” the department added.

        Officials said they received information about the fraudulent note from [the local] Public Health Services.”

        My bet is there’s an element of example to this, so that others don’t do it.

      10. HappySnoopy*

        It would depend on jurisdiction or even the way the local emergency declarations are written, but have you ever heard you can’t yell fire in a crowded theater? Its along those lines, I would bet. Inciting panic. This is a place that serves the public and this stunt wasted not just the business time and money, but likely authorities who would test Andorra notify every customer.

      11. Maddy*

        Canadian and all provinces have issued states of emergency. Provinces have also started to impose high fines for these kinds of issues (not social isolating, no quarantineing, not social distances properly) so I’m not surprised that the police would be involved in this. Whether or not this person could be charged I don’t know.

    3. LGC*

      …that’s monstrous. (And I thought it was only the US that was acting terribly here. Which…we are, but I digress.)

      I’m so sorry that you had to go through that, and I hope your coworker faces consequences for her actions.

      1. leapingLemur*

        Are you saying you think only people in the US act terribly sometimes? That seems unfair. Also, some people and companies in the US have been doing good things.

        1. Kiwi with laser beams*

          LGC said “we”, so I read this as “LGC is an American who is unhappy with how their country is handling it, and this story made them realise that people in countries outside the US are doing awful things re: the evil virus too”.

    5. Minocho*

      As far as making people feel better, I would focus on what we know and what we can do to minimize risk going forward. The big thing is, soap and water is really the best defense against this. Everyone is going for bleach, hand sanitizer and the like, but soap really is best. There are plenty of articles on it now, so feel free to search for the info, but the basic reason it works so well is that the virus holds itself together with a lipid wall (a wall made of fat or oil), and soap and water is the best defense against this. You can all minimize the risk to yourselves by cleaning surfaces and skin with soap and water regularly. If anyone does have the virus, wearing anything over your mouth will minimize the chance a cough or sneeze will transfer the virus to someone else.

      This won’t be 100% protection, but it’s something anyone can do to minimize the risk to themselves and others. I always feel better if there’s something I can do, personally.

      Stay safe! Thank you for working hard to keep people fed!

      1. Artemesia*

        hand face transfer is a minor part of contagion. This stuff primarily transmits through the air and talking is enough to share the virus. Yes, washing hands is wise, but most people get it through breaking the air breathed or coughed out by those carrying the virus.

      2. PollyQ*

        Hand-washing is NOT the best defense — staying away from other people entirely is the best defense.

    6. Lyudie*

      Can you point out that management clearly took this very seriously, with sending folks home immediately and paying for a special cleaning, and that they clearly have worker’s interests at heart? I mean, that sounds like a pretty reasonable and proactive reaction and I would be glad to see my employer take something like this seriously, even if it did turn out to be unnecessary.

      1. All monkeys are French*

        I agree. The woman lying about having it is terrible, but a business closing for cleaning and sending people home for safety are good things. This is my qualm with many “essential” businesses. Many of them are only essential because the workers need the income and the owners don’t want to lose money. So many people are out there risking their safety for bs capitalist reasons.

    7. Free Meercats*

      If any of the coworkers or their family member or friends lost a single Loonie (guessing Canada) to this, they have a cause for action in Small Claims Court. Each employee should file and make sure the cases don’t get consolidated. Make this weasel’s life as hellish as humanly (but legally) possible. Each case will cost her not only the damages, but all court costs as well.

      And you’ll be able to use the police files to prove her actions caused the damage, all you have to do it prove your damages, so start documenting now.

      1. Anon in Ontario*

        Sadly, the person involved in this case (assuming it’s the one that’s been in the news around here… I’m hoping that there aren’t many others like it out there) is a broke teenager. It’s unlikely that the coworkers will be able to regain a meaningful portion of their lost wages.

        1. Free Meercats*

          A dependent minor? So the parents are responsible for any damages. They raised the entitled {words I won’t use here}. Drag them all into court, over and over.

  11. Western Rover*

    The L.A. council passed some COVID-19 provisions, most of which I can see how they would benefit workers, e.g. paid sick leave, but a tabled provision that has me scratching my head is the requirement to lay off and rehire workers in seniority order. Can someone explain to me how this benefits workers generally (other than obviously those with seniority, but so would an alphabetical requirement benefit Arya and Bran at the expense of Wakeen and Ygritte)? I’m in a profession where we tend to move around every few years, so seniority doesn’t correlate much with experience, but even in professions where people tend to stay with one employer I imagine they do change jobs occasionally (e.g. to accompany a spouse to a better opportunity in a new city).

      1. Jules the 3rd*

        Usually ‘in seniority order’ means ‘least seniority first’.

        I’m with Policy Wonk on the ‘prevent discrimination’, though I think it applies to more than just age – if you’ve got an objective rule for firing that’s at least somewhat related to work, that reduces the chances of managers firing all the people who don’t look like them. Doesn’t eliminate, just reduces.

      2. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

        I think they are proposing to lay off the most junior people first, though… (OP said she wonders “how this benefits workers generally (other than obviously those with seniority)”

    2. Policy Wonk*

      Possibly to prevent age discrimination in layoffs and rehiring. Older workers who have been there longer tend to cost more.

      1. Western Rover*

        At least one of the proposals I read was explicit about seniority meaning length of service with the company, not overall length in the workforce, so seniority would be only very loosely correlated with age or salary. I would think that even a decent non-evil employer would oppose it since they would want to be able to retain or rehire the best workers regardless of whether they’ve been there for only one year, but my question is: why should workers be in favor of this? Cui bono?

        1. Rachel in NYC*

          Yes- but it keeps companies from keeping the least expensive employees. That at least would be the idea of it. Presumably they were imagining low-skill job scenarios were all employees are equally capable of doing the job- an employer would prefer to keep on the employees they pay the least per hour, which is probably the ones who have been most recently hired.

        2. TheFacelessOldWomanWhoSecretlyLivesinYour House*

          Why is it shitty? It’s nice that seniority/years at the company and hard work is recognized.Many unions have this and it works really well.

          1. Diahann Carroll*

            It’s shitty because there are plenty of people who get into a position, get complacent, and don’t actually do shit at work – I worked with many such people when I was an insurance claims adjuster. These people had been there 20 some odd years and were just collecting a paycheck until they could retire while newer employees did the brunt of the work.

    4. Koala dreams*

      The purpose of these kind of rules is that there is an objective standard for who to layoff, so that the layoffs should be based on how many workers the company needs, and not based on personal reasons (conflicts, working style, illegal discrimination). I don’t know why they don’t choose alphabetical order instead, but I’d assume alphabetical order is more likely to discriminate against ethnic groups?

      I think the seniority rule would be good for stopping employers to layoff those with the highest pay (since often you start at the lowest pay in the pay band and work your way up), and give some protection to the oldest workers.

      1. Princess Zelda*

        I would wager that, in addition to disparate impact, you’d also get a weird distribution around the organization. Clusters happen, and if you’ve got a department with an Alex, Ashley, Allison, and Adrienne, and another department with Zeynab, Jean, Khloe, and Wakeen, Department 1 is going to be gutted and Department 2 isn’t going to lose anyone.

      2. Jeffrey Deutsch*

        Hear, hear.

        Otherwise, if there’s any room for selecting just who goes, layoff becomes a soft firing. Prospective employers know the laid-off person was specifically judged to be less capable, or less well-behaved, or less conscientious or less ethical than those who remained.

    5. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      It benefits (as far as that goes…) workers because it’s an objective and measurable way to ‘sort’ people, rather than relying on stuff like personal friendships with the big boss because their spouses go golfing together, someone has a PIP in their past, or whatever.

    6. ynotlot*

      This is considered the method of doing layoffs that is best for workers. In addition to avoiding age discrimination problems, it is also the preferred method by unions. Many unions require that companies do layoffs this way. First in, first out. The labor union philosophy is that all workers are equally valuable, so seniority order is fairest. An adequate worker who has been there 50 years would keep their job over a high-performing prodigy who has been there 2 years. Loyalty to workers over loyalty to productivity/profit.
      I could see many arguments as to which layoff method is most fair, and I actually don’t have an opinion myself (layoffs suck) but this is the union interpretation of fairness.

      1. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

        > The labor union philosophy is that all workers are equally valuable, so seniority order is fairest. An adequate worker who has been there 50 years would keep their job over a high-performing prodigy who has been there 2 years. Loyalty to workers over loyalty to productivity/profit.

        I don’t agree with this by any stretch of the imagination, but I can respect it as a way of prioritizing layoffs in any case when you can’t quantify *actual* value of individual people.

    7. union rep*

      I negotiate union contracts that typically have this type of provision. It’s seen as the fairest way to be non-discriminatory/anti-favoritism, and to protect people who have stuck it out through thick and thin with the company. It also specifically protects retirements – someone could be only a few months away from being able to retire with full benefits, and it would be cruel to lay them off before they made it there, plus it’s difficult for a retirement-age worker to go out and find a new job in many fields.

    8. Western Rover*

      Thanks for answering my question, everyone. I may not agree but at least now I understand, when before it was a mystery to me.

    9. LGC*

      …I can’t believe you went for Wakeen instead of Walder (and it’s been years since I’ve read ASoIaF, and I’m literally the only person who hasn’t watched GoT)!

      Anyway – I think that you’re right in that it doesn’t much benefit workers in a general sense. But I think that it means that if Arya and Bran have lower salaries than Jon and Ygritte because Jon and Ygritte have been there longer, you don’t want a situation where everyone gets laid off but whoops Arya and Bran are the only ones to get called back if this thing ends. It’s not the solution I’d have chosen, but I can see the reasoning, kind of.

  12. My boss made me walk across coals for a promotion*

    If anyone wants a laugh at my expense, feel free. Hopefully this will brighten up someone’s day for a moment:

    I worked on my resume all last week. A friend send me hers and I used the formatting but all the content was 100% my own, including my old resume.

    I spent all day on the content, and formatting (going from Google doc for 5-6 years back to Word was…..). In the end, once I had the info, I made sure to change the email address as well as the hyperlink because I know that’s a common item to easily overlook.

    Sent it out to about half a dozen people.

    Opened it up 3 days later, and….I forgot to change the phone number.

    I quickly texted my friend freaking out about it and we had a good laugh. Fortunately the resume was only sent to friends to look over, not to actual employers.

    2. Heat's Kitchen*

      You could still use Google docs and save as a PDF to send out. I always send my resume as PDF.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        Me too, and if they ask for a Word doc specifically, I back out to avoid having my resume changed by a recruiter.

        1. XxXxX*

          Unfortunately, many people, myself included, can make changes to pdf’s although using pdf’s does make it hard for the user to change the document inadvertently.

          And recruiters that want to change your resume will just retype it :$

    3. Mama Bear*

      I once made a typo in my email address on a resume. Fortunately it was a free account and I just made a new account with that typo in it since the resume was already out in the wild.

  13. Anonydoglover*

    Hello! I have realized that my company is still paying for health insurance premium but forgot to take it out of my paycheck since January, and I just now noticed on my paystubs. Can they retroactively make me pay it even though it was their fault? I really can’t afford it right now, but I don’t want to make it worse for myself by not saying anything. I’m in Georgia. Thanks!

      1. Sunflower*

        Correct. They can make you pay but usually will do it in waves- like you pay $20 more every month until it’s adjusted.

    2. Triumphant Fox*

      They can definitely retroactively make you pay for it. When I took maternity leave – also in GA – they neglected to mention that I don’t get benefits during a short term disability period, so I would need to pay for those out of pocket. They told me this 4 weeks into my leave. I negotiated with them to pay it over a six month period.

      It really depends on your company. I would immediately talk to HR/accounting/whoever makes sense and tell them your financial situation. It’s completely reasonable you’re not able to pay this back immediately and haven’t budgeted for it. I would hope they’d be understanding.

      1. Mama Bear*

        I similarly had to pay extra for my insurance at the end of my maternity leave. They paid it as long as I got a check under short term disability, but my 4 weeks unpaid were not covered. It’s their fault it’s gone unpaid. I’d definitely ask for a payment plan if you pay up at all. I’d also double triple verify that there was no lapse in your insurance.

    3. RobotWithHumanHair*

      I remember having something like this happen at my old job (in New Jersey), though it wasn’t that they were completely forgetting to take the premium out, but not taking enough. In my case, they DID make us pay it back over the course of a few months.

    4. ...*

      Yup they can and will- this happened to me when I was making about $800 every two weeks and I went a full month with no paycheck when the error was “realized”. I pointed it out every single check for months but the Hr person denied it and then finally “found It”. Its extremely annoying but yes you do owe the money.

      1. Beatrice*

        Making you go a full month with no paycheck is not legal. They have to pay you at least minimum wage in actual money any time they’re making a correction like that.

    5. Person from the Resume*

      Yes, they can.

      You should tell them now because if you wait you’ll just owe a larger lump sum when they discover it. Not that they will make you pay it in a lump sum because I hope they don’t.

      One thing the military used to tell people who it happened to is to put that “extra” money you owe them somewhere where you don’t spend it so when they come to take it back you haven’t already spent the money that they erroneously overpaid you.

    6. A Poster Has No Name*

      They can and they will.

      When I had a baby, despite calling within a week of his birth, my company’s incompetent HR services center couldn’t get him added to my insurance properly, so I was underbilled for MONTHS before they figured it out and sent a nastygram that if I didn’t come up with hundreds of dollars with in days of receiving the letter my insurance would be cancelled.

      I was…not pleased, to say the least.

  14. Job Seeking*

    Where do all of you think the job market is headed? How do you think your industry will fare? I’ve been searching for a new job, but the couple interviews I’ve had lined up have either been indefinitely postponed or canceled. I’m fairly sure this will be a rough year for my industry, but not crippling. I think for us it will be long and reasonable painful, but not business ending (I work in a healthcare related field).

    1. Construction Safety*

      Well, for us, we were turning away outage jobs this spring because of lack of manpower, but now, a lot of it is spread out thru the late spring/summer. So we may actually be able it increase our business this year.

    2. ThatGirl*

      I have no idea how the job market will fare – I think some companies beyond the obvious (especially grocery, jan/san, paper goods, delivery services, etc) will do pretty well, but many others will suffer.

      I work at a CPG company and I really could see things going either way for us — we’re baking-related, and it seems like everyone’s at home baking! Which could be great! But if people don’t have extra money to buy baking pans or sprinkles or decorating supplies, then our business will take a big hit.

    3. Anonymous Educator*

      I think the job market is general is going to be horrible for at least the next six months. But there may be a few niche industries that actually grow during this time.

    4. Going Anon*

      I’m going anon for this one because it will be pretty clear that I work for one of two companies that fits the description I’m going to give.

      Hard to say. I work for an absolutely mammoth company that is experiencing all kinds of covid-related challenges. Theme parks are closed. Movies and shows stopped production weeks ago. More people are watching what we do have on TV/digital platforms, but advertisers are falling out in droves because either they’re in a poorly-positioned industry (travel, dining) or they’re in holding off on launching new products and services. With no sports scheduled, we’re now scrambling to find something to put on the air in the hours and hours that were supposed to be dedicated to athletic endeavors. It’s a cluster. I have no doubt my job is safe until this draws to an end and we can assess how things are once the dust settles but for now, the company is in a weird place.

    5. Nita*

      I’m in one of the big outbreak areas. Our statistics are terrible but starting to look a little more hopeful, but only because everyone that can stay home, does. If things slowly start to reopen within the month, the people that go back to working in person may well be putting their life on the line. If they don’t start to reopen… I don’t know. I’ve never seen a state run out of unemployment money before, but this situation is so unprecedented that it might happen. I suspect the state government will lean toward a very gradual re-opening so people don’t begin to starve. My industry is semi-essential – our business has been cut to maybe 50% of the usual, but so far we still have jobs, and if we can get through the next month, we may be back on our feet (and paying taxes) soon.

    6. CatCat*

      I’m in government so I’m secure for now. But I think the sh*t will hit the fan with next year’s budget.

    7. WantonSeedStitch*

      I’m in nonprofit fundraising (higher education), and I think the industry is overall in for a rough patch. A lot of wealthy people are losing a lot of money right now. It doesn’t faze me personally as much as the NON-wealthy people losing jobs and livelihood right now, but it poses a problem for my work. I don’t solicit donors myself, but our fundraisers had already been having a hard time this year (especially at the highest gift levels) due to other issues, and this is just going to make it harder for them. So far there’s no whisper of layoffs–we’re in the middle of a campaign and they need to make sure we keep raising money–but I expect we’re going to have to do a lot of belt-tightening over the next few months/year/whatever. Meanwhile, I feel like the stress is fraying the relationships between various offices in my organization, and some people are frustrated and worried and looking for someone to blame, while we’re really all trying as hard as we can to make things work.

      1. Should I stay or should I go?*

        Aye, my company has talked about a hiring freeze even if we don’t end up firing anyone.

    8. My boss made me walk across coals for a promotion*

      I’m in accounting and I’m not sure tbh. My company laid me off due to cuts but they had issues before it. But I feel like because tax deadline was extended and the new loans etc coming out, more businesses will need professional help. I’m hoping that my (previous) company is an outlier in this.

    9. pope suburban*

      I’m concerned that this will be a replay of 2008, and a lot of those jobs won’t come back, either because companies are pulling the same “more work for fewer people/less pay” shenanigans, or because businesses will have folded/suffered enough losses that they cannot afford to bring back full staff. I hope that this will not affect me, as I’m in municipal government and we have a 40-year strategic plan that gives me more security than I had in the private sector. We’ve had to cancel all our spring programming, though, and if we lose summer, we’re going to be hurt badly. I believe that we will weather this and come out the other side looking more or less the same as we do now, but the road to that point might be long and treacherous.

    10. Mimmy*

      I’m wondering the same thing. My target is higher education disability services / accessibility, but I don’t know if anyone is really hiring right now, especially for part-time (full time plus school would be too much for me).

    11. Overeducated*

      I think my public sector job is safe based on how it is funded, but I’d guess hiring freezes are on the horizon if the rest of the economy is down.

      I sometimes regret not staying in the nonprofit cultural sector, but I’m watching in horror and sadness as closures and layoffs mount. I think a lot of institutions will not make it out of this, and the already precarious job market in that sector is going to be like the hunger games for a while.

    12. Aggretsuko*

      We’ll lose a fair chunk of clients but I think we’ll go on. My office is so short staffed as is that they really can’t cut any more, and our CEO has said nobody will be laid off until the end of June (how generous!) but will try to figure out how to keep people whose jobs have been shut down due to virus after that.

    13. Alternative Person*

      Hard to say, my industry and locality always needs bodies, but without a regular influx of new people if layoffs happen there might be jobs enough for those already here to wait out the worst.

    14. !*

      While usually not a popular choice for job-seekers, I actually work for a utility company, a water utility specifically. All of our departments are still up and functioning without a layoff in sight. We have Customer Service, Accounting, IT, and Operations folks who usually work in the office all working from home, and our field service personnel only providing emergency services. As water is what literally sustains life, we are an essential business regardless what is happening!

      1. Skeeder Jones*

        I worked at a water district back in 2015-2017 working in water efficiency (water conservation) during the worst years of the CA drought. I really enjoyed it and loved learning about a new industry. Water would definitely be an essential business!

    15. Anonymouse*

      I am in the software industry which has seen less of an impact than many other industries and as the sector of the industry I am in is insurance related (we make software for insurance companies) and we have multi-year multi million dollar contracts with insurance companies you would recognize the names of, my company specifically is likely going to be ok.

      As an entire company we were fairly easily able to transition to work from home for the vast majority of the workforce.

      In fact, last I heard we were still planning on opening some new positions soon (I’ll get an update from my boss next week hopefully-we’ve been shorthanded for a while)

    16. Elizabeth West*

      I just filled out an app on a large cable company’s website and the page was so incredibly slow I literally had to go away and come back. What’s funny is that I actually used this company’s internet to apply to it. (The internet is working fine; it was just their careers page.)

      I also applied to a job with a Big Pharma company today. Yes, I know, but it’s a job I want to get experience in. Pretty sure these two industries aren’t going anywhere.

      1. nonegiven*

        I wonder if they are prioritizing other types of traffic, or if the careers page is overloaded with the number of applications they are getting.

        1. Elizabeth West*

          I would assume it’s the former. I’m betting a TON of them are working from home.

    17. Legally a Vacuum*

      I’m at a consumer goods company and I’m worried about how long it will take for people to feel comfortable making $200+ purchases again.

    18. LJay*

      My industry (airlines) things are going to be bad for awhile. Prominent CEOs are saying that the effect on the industry is going to be worse than 9/11 was.

      I’m thinking that once the social distancing requirements are lifted, people are still going to want to go on vacations, see family, etc. So I do think that leisure travel will pick back up relatively quickly. How many airlines survive until the social distancing ends remains something to be seen, though.

      I also think that we’ll see less business travel as more and more companies will see that trainings, meetings, etc, can be done without everyone being in the same place. Of course there are some things that need to be done face-to-face still, but I think businesses will be more selective about what those things are because it’s much cheaper to have someone teleconference than it is to fly someone business class halfway around the world.

      My particular company I believe is in good shape due to the nature of our business. But we still have furloughed some people and are in a hiring freeze.

      Other places I see with a large portion of their fleet on the ground and it really makes me wonder, even with the bailouts, how they’re going to manage to not lay off people. And I know a ton of adjacent people probably have already lost their jobs or will before this is over (a lot of workers that people think are airline employees, like rampers and baggage agents and even some customer service agents are not – they’re contractors who work for companies like Swissport and so as far as I know are not covered by the no-layoff clause.)

      My husband will have his job at least until the end of the time period specified by the bailout, but we’re still not optimistic about after that.

      I’ll likely have my job unless my company parks all of their planes. But you never know.

      1. TheFacelessOldWomanWhoSecretlyLivesinYour House*

        I would love to know why the airlines need bailouts. The airlines have been making huge profits–even with low oil prices, they charged passengers huge prices and claimed they could because they had the demand. Shouldn’t they be using their rainy day funds and mega profits? I mean, Amazon can be jerks but they aren’t whining for a bailout yet.

        1. Another anon*

          Yeah, it seems like they were always squeezing more people onto planes and making you pay a surcharge for everything, so they should be raking in the cash, right?

          There’s a really interesting youtube video that talks about the economics of airline class:
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzB5xtGGsTc

        2. Princess Zelda*

          They “need” bailouts because they used all their profits on stock buybacks, so they have no reserves. I somehow am having trouble feeling sorry for them.

      2. Diahann Carroll*

        I also think that we’ll see less business travel as more and more companies will see that trainings, meetings, etc, can be done without everyone being in the same place. Of course there are some things that need to be done face-to-face still, but I think businesses will be more selective about what those things are because it’s much cheaper to have someone teleconference than it is to fly someone business class halfway around the world.

        My company’s CEO (in the software industry) was just saying this. I expect most of the travel that’s not truly business critical moving forward will be denied.

    19. bdg*

      i work in a highly regulated industry. for the most part, it won’t matter (we have a lot of staffing requirements, everything moves very slowly, people always need what we do) BUT i do think it may help us save money in the future. we’re managing to keep on doing all of our stuff but either 1. less frequently or 2. remotely. we have a lot of travel costs associated with regulators coming to do things, so being forced to do those things remotely now could mean we can keep doing them remotely in the future (not all of them, but definitely some).

      i honestly think it’s a good shove into modern (digital) society for our very analog industry.

    20. Tau*

      My company is not likely to see any impacts for this for another year, since we have our budget set. I’m also uncertain how big said impacts will be, because the stuff we work on is 100% needed and also direly in need of development. (Not healthcare, but it involves a focus on service provision for the public rather than profit.) Overall, I think I’m about as cushioned as I can be.

      I’m more worried about my overall industry. I’m a software developer, and in an area of the industry where it’s common to switch jobs every 1-2 years jumping from startup to startup. Somehow, I don’t think the startup scene is going to be what it was before. Here’s hoping I continue to like this company and it’s successful, because I think I might be here for a while.

    21. LizzE*

      As another commentator noted, big gift fundraising will go down, which will affect what my industry (philanthropy). But, my organization does have a lot of healthy long-term revenue sources and our reserves are good enough to keep us afloat for awhile.

    22. PseudoMona*

      I’m in biotech, and in general I think the industry will be fine. Smaller, newer start-ups are probably the most vulnerable, since they have short runways and need data to attract investors. Companies working on treatments and/or vaccines related to coronavirus might actually do better than they otherwise would have. My company is actually full steam ahead with hiring right now, to expand our business.

    23. Rhymetime*

      I work a nonprofit that is currently financially stable based on our funding model with a lot of government contracts that will likely continue. It will be interesting to see how our donations from individuals shift because our area of focus is not social services or health, and understandably that’s where people are committing their philanthropic gifts.

      I’m lucky that my job is in fundraising. When the economy faces a downturn, people want to hire me. It’s a weird thing to be more in demand when there’s a lot of suffering around me others are losing their jobs. For example, I knowa lot of people in the outdoor education field–residential overnight programs for schoolkids doing experiential science–and the entire field has been decimated across the country with layoffs everywhere. But they’re keeping their fundraisers.

    24. Retail not Retail*

      I think while travel related things (hotels, airlines, cruises) will see a hit beyond this, I believe that tourist sites will rebound – theme parks, museums, zoos, and obviously parks/monuments under government control.

      We had to like beat/chase the people away and our last official day it was raining and all our indoor stuff was closed and they were still there! Go away! People are eager to come back.

      Maybe tourism will be more locally oriented which will be cool. (My degree is historic preservation and my motivation was love of tourism and so this is all very fascinating.)

  15. On that Academic Job Market Grind*

    I’ve had to implement a lot of structure, because although I can largely do my job from anywhere, I’ve never been good at writing at home and I’m in the final push of my dissertation (plus teaching three classes). So I’ve been staying in my home office 9-5 every day this week and then actually leaving my laptop on my desk and disconnecting in the evening. I’ve been so productive! But today I just feel exhausted. I have to teach in a couple of hours, but I’m scrolling through twitter and not writing right now like I should be.

    Any tips on how to sustain focus in a 9-5 schedule? I miss my old lack-of-routine, but it’s just not healthy or possible amidst *waves arms* all of this.

    1. Almost Academic*

      Getting social accountability has been a godsend for me. I’ve teamed up with a few other friends who are also at writing stages, other members of my lab, and even random strangers on the internet (google Focusmate). I really dislike writing from home, and so I’ve really needed that extra push of social accountability with setting goals and checking in to make it happen on my end.

      Good luck! It’s really hard writing at the moment, especially with so much else going on. Sounds like you’ve had a productive few days, so maybe it’s also your brain just needing a quick break.

    2. Did you read the syllabus?*

      Some days you will just be worn out. That happened to me when I was writing my dissertation and happened earlier this week with this current crisis. On Monday / Tuesday I powered through and recorded two lectures and did a bunch of grading. Then Wednesday I was where you are today.
      At least for me, it’s best to embrace it, so on Wednesday I turned off the computer and read a book and went for a walk. (I still had Zoom class, so I did that too of course). I’ve learned that if I try to power through when I am like that, the tiredness actually lasts longer so it takes longer to get back to being really productive. By embracing it on Wednesday I was better on Thursday. Granted, I also put in a few hours over the weekend to make up for Wednesday, but that is typical for me.
      Some of it right now is that adjusting to a new “normal” IS tiring. So hopefully next week you won’t hit the same slump.
      Also – in regards to keeping a schedule. I find having rewards for myself and scheduled breaks really helps. So I work till lunch and I get to read during lunch. Then I work till 5 or 6, and then the computer is OFF for the night.

    3. Person from the Resume*

      When I experience that feeling, I just say 40 per hours a week is too much to expect.

      Lots of time I have a very productive start of the week but burn out on Thursday or Friday.

      You did great. Is there something easier than writing that you can work on so you’re still accomplishing something even if it’s not the intellectually hard stuff?

    4. Another PhD student*

      I finished my dissertation and defended right before all of this started (literally defended two days before my university shut down) – I was actually disappointed that I couldn’t be working on dissertation now that I’m not allowed to be in the lab (although I am working on publications). Seeing your post is a good reminder that this whole situation is mentally and emotionally exhausting and not great for concentrating on writing – and I don’t even have to teach!

      I don’t know how helpful this will be because you’ve probably already thought of a lot of this, but the ways I stayed focused during my dissertation-writing period included: making a ton of to-do lists and highly specific outlines that divided my writing and editing into really small, manageable chunks; setting timers for a manageable amount of focused time (e.g. 30 minutes), then taking a short break to do something (refill my tea/coffee/water, use the bathroom, do body weight squats, whatever) and resetting the timer; turning the internet off if I’m doing a task that doesn’t actually require the use of the internet so I can’t get stuck in a reddit/wikipedia hole. You may also find it useful to allow yourself a slightly longer workday or some evening work hours, but with more built-in breaks throughout the day. I also fully agree with the importance of social accountability mentioned by Almost Academic – I had regular meetings with my adviser where I told him what specific tasks I had done every week and what tasks I was planning to do that week, and I also would tell my partner every day what I had done as a part of our evening chats.

      Good luck, and try not to be too hard on yourself – I think many (or even most) people often find it difficult to focus on dissertation writing even when you don’t have a global pandemic and sudden shift to a completely different mode of teaching to deal with! And I’m sure you realize this, but you will have some off days even on a schedule that works well for you, and that is completely normal.

    5. Reba*

      The advice here is good! I would say, use the pomodoro method, forgive yourself when you slack off, and it’s ok to have dud days. I recall that the process of writing my dissertation did include a fair amount of noodling around on the internet. And I still got it done in the end.

      1. SophieChotek*

        Thanks for this!

        I was just wondering along these lines but wasn’t sure I wanted to start a whole new thread. I’ve talked to my boss and he feels like it’s okay if my productivity is not the best at least right now, though I told him I’m hoping I can get my stride.
        I’m trying not to slack off or obssessively check the news or just chat with friends (who are all, suddenly online all the time).
        To be fair, I already did WFH, but the mental stress/etc. still is hitting more than I thought it would.

      2. Avasarala*

        Yes, I find that Mon-Tue are my least productive days of the week. Also tired and miserable and distracted. Thu-Fri I’m usually more focused, more cheerful, more productive, and work later. I figure it balances out.

    6. Mynona*

      My FT job is to research and write a book, and I’ve been having to do it from home without library access for 3 weeks, so I sympathize. It’s cheesy, but the Pomodoro timer thing (25 minutes work/5 minutes break) helps me on bad days. And identifying easy tasks (like bibliography clean up or revising existing text) that have to be done and that I can do when I’m unfocused. When I was dissertating, I would turn off my wifi to avoid the internet as a writing distraction. Good luck!

  16. Mrs Teacher*

    Question from an elementary school teacher-

    I’m required to contact parents of students who aren’t doing work every 3 days. They all tell me “oh yes, we’ll start this afternoon.” When I offer to walk them through logging in, they say they’re all good. I’m running out of appropriate ways to say, I’ve seen your kid isn’t logged in yet, how can I help?

    Any good scripts I can use as I continue to hound them twice weekly for the foreseeable future?

    2. Matilda Jefferies*

      You’re required to *contact* them, but are you required to make them do the work? Could you just keep checking in to see how they’re doing, without putting pressure on them to achieve anything in particular?

      I’m asking partly to make it easier for you, and partly to make it easier for myself as the parent of two elementary school children. Their last day of school was March 13, and we’re expected to start some form of “teacher guided learning” on Monday. They’ve been off for a long time, and I’m not sure how easy it’s going to be to get them doing schoolwork again. Not to mention I’m still working full time, so I don’t really have the time to sit with them and make sure they do it. Working plus parenting is a lot under the best of circumstances, and these are hardly the best of circumstances – it’s going to be hard for a lot of parents to also suddenly become teachers as well.

      I know it’s not your decision, Mrs Teacher – I’m not ranting at you specifically! Obviously you have to do whatever your board requires. But as a parent, I’m just not sure I can make it happen. So I’d be happy to have you check in if you need to, but I certainly can’t guarantee we’ll be accomplishing anything from day to day. Hopefully there’s some way that schools and parents can meet in the middle on this. (Which is also something that you and I are not going to sort out over the internet! Best of luck to you, and thanks so much for trying.)

      1. Mrs Teacher*

        That’s a good point! I am supposed to provide materials and contact parents, but I guess it is ultimately up to them what they can accomplish at home. I am 100% in agreement about how hard it is for working parents- I’m trying to teach my own children through all of this and it is hard!

        I love the idea of changing my focus to “how are you holding up” and letting admin handle the tough stuff if and when they want to!

        Thank you!

        1. WantonSeedStitch*

          I think that’s a great idea. Maybe even come at it from an angle of “I’ve been trying to make sure my own kids are getting an education at home while I work, and it’s been tough. I’m sure you’re experiencing a lot of challenges of your own. Is there anything I can do to help?” A little empathy can go a long way!

        2. Buni*

          My colleague did the full class ring-round yesterday and got everything from,
          “Oh yes, he’s online every day, lots of work getting done!”
          “I can see his data log, he hasn’t logged on to [learning site] once in this fortnight…”
          “But he’s online all the….[silence]….I’ll call you back.”

          to the parent who basically said,
          “I’m not responsible for his education, that’s what I send him to school for [click] ”

          I’m only an at-home tutor, so frankly if any of my students are looking at a book at all I’ll take it…

        3. just a random teacher*

          If your elementary school is like it is in my state where students all move on to the next grade the next year even if they fail, I definitely recommend making these conversations about support and a friendly check-in like this rather than about trying to come up with consequences. Particularly as this wears on, having a friendly rather than adversarial relationship with the people you’re calling all the time will be much less stressful for everyone involved.

          If your school district also has ways to connect families with additional resources (meals, laptops, wifi hotspots, anything), then you can also focus on making sure that families know about those resources and how to access them if they need them as those things come up in those check-in conversations. (For example, our district is providing free lunches along our bus routes to all kids 1-18 regardless of whether or not they usually would qualify for free lunch or are enrolled in school with us. If a parent just got laid off, knowing school will give all of their kids 5 free meals a week with no special paperwork needed may be a relief.)

          If there will be meaningful consequences if the kid does no work, be sure to remind the parents about them, of course, but you can frame even those kinds of conversations as showing concern. Scripts like: “I’m concerned that Fergus hasn’t gotten any work done for two weeks, and that may affect his placement next year. We’re talking about putting the 3rd graders who aren’t getting much done this spring into a 3/4 split next year in case they need to repeat third grade [or whatever, I’m making this up for the purposes of this example and have no idea what plans your district will actually come up with], and, if possible, I think it would be better for him to get more academic time now so that we’re not worrying about next year’s placement.”

          1. SweetestCin*

            What I’ve noticed (not a teacher, goodness no. But I am a WFH Mom currently, with two older elementary school aged kids) as helpful with group participation here is moving meetups and such to “lunchtime” or “after work”. Our household was lucky in that we were able to scramble and obtain extra devices. Not everyone can. The first bit, we had my work laptop – which meant it was a “no” for us during my work hours.

      2. Mama Bear*

        What’s the flip side? How are administrators backing you up? Is there any current version of an unexcused absence?

        For my kid, it feels like things will be monitored via work received, so maybe focus on that? Do they understand that the child will not be able to receive appropriate grades for the year if they don’t log in? So many districts started out with very lax “you can do this, but it’s not graded/required” and I think some parents think that’s still the case. If this is not optional, then clarify. Are school counselors still working? If so, could someone else reach out and see if there’s a blocker keeping this kid offline?

        There are also a lot of memes going around about how the focus shouldn’t be academics and while I’m all for good mental health, it’s not helpful to the student if they never log in ever.

        1. Mrs Teacher*

          You make a bunch of good points. Mental health right now is top priority, but for so many kids that will be improved by routine.

          Admin is vague about what the next steps are for this type of kid, I don’t think they have established a plan yet. But it’s hard to follow through when there isn’t a plan to relay to parents. We’re not counting absences now at all.

          1. just a random teacher*

            I am also in the “hard to follow through when there isn’t a plan to relay to parents” boat. Our state hasn’t given us any guidance about seniors/graduation yet. They said they’d have it to us by the end of March, and are now saying mid April. Um. I really can’t wait 2 more weeks without touching base with senior parents, and I need to know if there’s going to be any flexibility in the graduation requirements. I also need to know if seniors are still supposed to be done on time even though the state shut down schools completely for a week and half before switching to remote learning, or if make-up days will be added.

    3. General von Klinkerhoffen*

      I have children of that age. Our school has offered work for the children to do but stresses that it’s completely optional, and also suggests informal activities such as Lego or colouring.

      Where is the pressure coming from? Are you worried about particular students because of their personalities or circumstances or abilities, or just about the box ticking? Could you check the box for “made contact with family, child is well and enjoying age-appropriate activities”?

      1. Mrs Teacher*

        Expectations are constantly changing. Since our closure looks like it’s going to be extended again, we were told by admin to make regular contact. I think they’re trying to cover themselves if/when the state asks for how we’ve provided educational opportunities from home.

    4. Heidi*

      What happens if the kid never logs in? Other than not learning anything, of course. Is there a point at which they will they be held back a grade (or something else equally undesirable)?

      1. Mrs Teacher*

        No idea. I don’t think anyone knows at this point, everything is changing moment by moment.

      2. Not So NewReader*

        When I was in school we had online stuff we had to do. Our grade was based in part on our participation on line. I remember one class in particular because the teacher said point blank that if he could not see where we had logged in our grade would go down a full letter grade automatically. Additionally, he could see how much time we spent once we logged in so we could not fake the system. Logging in and immediately logging out would be treated the same as NO login.

        Sometimes these things have to be said out loud.

        On the positive side, the online activity was interesting and the teacher would discuss how the program itself worked. The tips helped to keep us moving along. I think the teacher’s interest in our experiences online helped.

        FWIW. This was in college which is a very different audience.

    5. Mockingjay*

      “Your kid will receive a failing grade for each assignment not turned in on time.”

      Seriously, remind them of whatever your school’s policy is for missed/late assignments. Emphasize that the policy remains in effect, even in the current distance learning environment. For repeat offenders, don’t spend a lot time with help offers. Give them the instructions or point to online tools once. After that, they’re on their own. Don’t parent the parents!

      1. Matilda Jefferies*

        Ouch, that’s pretty heavy-handed! I think now is the time to be relaxing standards as much as possible – maybe not to zero, but rigidly enforcing policies like this isn’t doing anyone any favours right now.

        1. Mama Bear*

          I think there needs to be a balance. My kid’s school is only allowing 2 more graded assignments to close the marking period to accommodate kids who got a late start due to not having a device or internet at home. They are also providing printed materials by request/as needed, but those assignments are graded assignments. If the school is going to the effort of being online vs just having optional work packets, then there needs to be *some* accountability.

          1. MsChanandlerBong*

            In my home state, the Dept. of Education told teachers they’re not allowed to teach anything new because they wouldn’t be able to meet various IEP requirements if they did so, AND the teachers aren’t allowed to grade anything. So they can give out review work, but it doesn’t count for anything, so I’m sure it’s difficult to keep kids (and parents) motivated to do it.

        2. Nita*

          Yes. My very organized, straight-A student is struggling to stay focused on his work, and to complete it at all. He needs tech support every 20 minutes because, well, I’d never anticipated that he needs to be a pro at MS Office and Adobe by second grade. And tech support is slow to show up, because I’m working and my husband is busy watching an extremely destructive toddler. We’re making it work, but I can’t even imagine how stressful this must be for families with less organized kids and only one parent/both parents working.

          I understand the reasoning behind the teachers assigning all of this, and really appreciate their hard work, but honestly, this feels like yet another source of torture in an already stressful time.

      2. Mrs Teacher*

        The problem is that, to date, we’re not taking grades. I’ve assigned a bunch of review lessons, but the ones choosing not to do school right now are the ones who really need the review. To my knowledge, we’re not holding anyone back based on this time. Especially since some families will get sick and they won’t be able to do school.

        1. Mama Bear*

          Ah.
          Let me guess – these are also the parents that are uninvolved the rest of the year? That would be so frustrating.

          1. Mrs Teacher*

            Yes, they’re the families that we’ve been struggling to engage for years. Now it’s ride or die time, and they don’t know how to ride.

        2. just a random teacher*

          I’m seeing something similar – my students who were ahead of the game to start with have been getting a lot done, but the senior who was already 3-ish weeks behind because her mom took on vacation for a week near the start of the term and then she was “too tired from her big trip” to work on school when she came back (note: this kid does NOT have something like cancer where it would make sense to take a week off of school and take One Last Trip to Disney) didn’t even log in to my class the whole time we were doing “closed, but here’s what you can do to catch up” time.

          That’s usually been the case when I’ve assigned additional review without a pandemic too, of course. Students are not good at figuring out if optional should include them, and the ones with other things going on in their lives are usually the ones who are both struggling with school and can’t find the extra time for optional work..

        3. Sunflower*

          Just wanna say kudos to you- this situation is tough and my friends who are teachers are also faced with a lot of confusion over being able to grade or not grade at this time. This is definitely tougher than other people’s transition to WFH and given you don’t have any guidelines is brutal.

          I can’t imagine how grading will go this semester- I’ve heard some college course are going Pass/Fail. I would not want to deal with any crazy parents at this time.

      3. J.B.*

        And parents who need to work will be working. Eating comes before kids grade. With the stuff my kid is doing I try do get her to do a few things a day. I won’t drive myself insane to do it.

      4. Alice*

        Wow. “The policy remains in effect.” “Repeat offenders.” Is the goal to get the family to completely disengage, or is that just a side effect?

    6. Malarkey01*

      How old are the students? If they are more independent (5th grade) you could make suggestions about providing a little structure to their logging on or which tasks are critical- if we’re talking younger kids I think you go with support and suggest that they try to at least read together every day or something.

      I think we need a lot of grace right now, and as absolutely important as education is, educating a 5 year old while also holding down WFH isn’t feasible. My sons in middle school and we have a toddler at home. His school was very understanding when we said there may be times during the day he has to step away and watch the toddler if both parents have conference calls. We’re in a situation where work (and paying the mortgage) trumps class time.

    8. Number 1*

      Another teacher here. I’ve also had a lot of parents tell me they know what they’re doing and will be starting soon but I have yet to see work from them or I get something like one half done assignment then nothing. We just started our spring break so I spent a good chunk of yesterday saying to parents, “Just checking in to see how things are going. I’ve only received one out five assignments from [child]. He has all spring break to work on them but I wanted to make sure there were no technical issues before the break starts.” I have a few parents who are working from home or who are prioritizing their older children’s work (I teach students who are not really old enough to log in or do much work on their own) and so they’re doing what they can on evenings and weekends. I’ve been giving them a lot of time and understanding as long as they’re responsive but I think there are some parents who don’t know that the assignments are mandatory or, honestly, don’t prioritize school.

      1. Lana Kane*

        I think this is also showing that some parents have either limited tools to keep watch over stuff they didn’t have to watch before (classwork), or have limited coping mechanisms to juggle everything coming their way. This is not an indictment of them, at all – I work from home full time, with a set shift that coincides with my son’s schoolwork time. It is very hard to manage it all. Some people react, some people freeze.

      2. 'Tis Me*

        My kiddo’s in her first year of school; reading to her “counts” as schoolwork but is offline. I do need to write an update for her teacher… There are also about 6 online platforms the school is using currently.

        I also have a 2 year old (who is a force of nature but loves books) and a 2 week old (who is a lovely little lamb but tried to come out sideways, elbow first, necessitating an extended C section). I also spiked a temperature today (pretty certain it’s a bacterial upper respiratory infection, doctor agreed and prescribed antibiotics over the phone) so she got 8 episodes of The Magic School Bus Rides Again because I just needed to be in bed for a chunk of time, and the husband was needed at work (high dependency healthcare).

        She needs a lot of directed support although she’s keen to learn, but e.g. practising reading phonics flash cards whilst the 2 year old commandeers the mouse, turning it into a speed reading exercise, is not amazingly productive… Toddler loves her big sister and wants to do what she’s doing.

        We’ve done some maths, she’s done more with the husband, she’s mainly been drawing/playing online when trying to do self-directed learning but it’s all good mouse control/fine motor skills work… Some days are going to be way more productive than others.

    9. Batgirl*

      Are you sure they’re able to? I’ve had parents who can’t afford a computer or tablet and their phones aren’t up to the job but they stalled in admitting that out of embarrassment. If they’d “rather not log in” there are “alternative activities” like dioramas you could suggest. Then once they’ve completed the offline activity, trill with excitement and ask for a photo :).
      But yeah, some parents are just not interested sadly…..

      1. Mama Bear*

        In some areas this is definitely a problem. Even if they have a device, the wifi isn’t up to the job. Here the schools gave out chromebooks to the extent possible, and helped people get set up on internet access or gave out a limited number of hotspots. My child’s school is also offering offline work, but you’d still need to request and fetch it.

    10. Koala dreams*

      I don’t have any advice for you, just sympathy. These times are hard for children. It’s a great that you keep in touch with the parents. It might feel pointless, but it’s still important. Could you ask to speak to the children now and then, or is that not done? Maybe the children will feel better if they know school still cares about them, even if the children can’t/won’t do school work.

    11. Anononline Teacher*

      I teach at an online school so this is my life! Even when people have opted into online schooling and signed an agreement about all the things they are going to do to support their kid, it’s like pulling teeth with 50% of them. Here are some tips, you’ll have to apply the appropriate ones to your age group/set up:

      -Try to set up appointments as opposed to cold-calling. There is a website called YouCanBookMe where you can set up account and they can pick a time to schedule appointments with you.
      -Set up recurring appointments where you will work directly with the kid (or maybe a 10 minute check in with parent at the beginning, then you’ll work with the kid).
      -Ask, “Is there a time I can call where I could walk you through logging in?”
      -Talk to the kid directly and walk them through the process

      Our school under normal circumstances can threaten to withdraw a kid for noncompliance, but right now we are not doing that either, so we are in a consequence-free zone. So here’s a potential message: “We’re not expecting kids to complete work at the same level/rate as when they’re in school. However, routine and structure are helpful to them. How can I support you in helping create that?”

    12. Observer*

      I think that being straightforward and using this exact language is the way to go.

      Also, document the contacts and exactly what the parents have said to you. You don’t want to be blamed later for the kid not having done the work.

    13. CatMintCat*

      I’m also a teacher, and dealing with this as well. Once we got over the “I am not making any calls to parents on my private phone” issue (it’s a breach of Code of Conduct to give parents our private contact details), contact began. We are a “middle class to wealthy” school on paper, but realistically at the moment, that isn’t the case. Nobody is going out and buying extra laptops to keep their kids online through the school day. They’re busy trying to maintain their own employment remotely or keep farms going in a long-lasting drought.

      My kids are 6 years old. They can’t do this independently. Only two have the reading skills to read and follow instructions. They need their parents help, and their parents can’t give it to them right now.

      Long term, I’m not worried about them academically. When we get back to school (looking like July at the earliest) we’ll work that out. My check ins are friendly, do you need anything, type chats, not draconian, you must do the work.

      It’s hard. And I think it’s going to get harder, not easier.

  17. Matilda Jefferies*

    Any recommendations for a decent desk chair? I’ve been using a basic dining room chair from Ikea, which is…not terrible, but certainly not great, especially if I’m going to be sitting in it for another 12 weeks.

    Specs: it needs to be smallish (or at least, no larger than “standard” size), and it will be sitting on the carpet. Comfortable, of course. And most important, it has to be available in Canada! Ikea is fine if that’s where your favourite chair comes from – it doesn’t need to be the Fanciest Chair Ever, just something that will not wreck my back for the next little while.

    1. Meg*

      If you have the container store, I really like their bungee chair. My mom has one at work and at home, and I got one to get me through this work from home time.

    2. Mill Miker*

      I’ve been using a “Staples Hyken Technical Mesh Task Chair” (from, well, Staples) for a couple of years, and my work bought a bunch in bulk not too long ago. They’re a nice balance between having some of the features of the high-end desk chairs, but not being priced like one (especially when they go on sale). The build quality of the newer ones at the office also seem nicer than my older one.

      If you’re at all on the taller side, I’d recommend not attaching the head rest, but the rest of the chair is pretty good.

      If you’re on carpet and don’t want to get a mat for under the chair, you can buy replacement wheels that fit most office chairs, and are more like rollerblade wheels. They tend to roll more effortlessly over more types of surface, and add an extra few centimetres to the height of the chair. I imagine they probably put more wear and tear on the carpet though.

      1. whocanpickone*

        This is the chair that I have, as well. It’s definitely better for a smaller person than some of the other options (which I am). It’s not as wide or tall as my spouses chair, which works for me.

    3. Daffy Duck*

      I have a eurostyle bungee chair that I really love; not too big and good seat support. You can get them with and without arms. I call it the “ugly office chair” as it REALLY take getting used to the look, but my hip and back love it.

    4. WantonSeedStitch*

      I’ve found that adding an ergonomic seat cushion and a lumbar support pillow to the chair I already have has made a huge difference! If you can’t find a chair you like, those might be options to improve the situation.

    5. MicroManagered*

      I brought my balance ball home from the office and find it’s a great alternative when I get sick of sitting in my office chair!

      1. MicroManagered*

        Forgot to add: It’s deflatable, so when you are done with it, it’s not like it has to continue taking up space in your home.

      2. SweetestCin*

        I’m going to give this a whirl. I’ve been sitting in a (coincidentally also Ikea) dining room chair for work for roughly the last three weeks and my back is okay, but hips are shrieking obscenities at me, and I have a vague bruise-like pain across the middle of my hamstrings where the chair hits them. I have a yoga ball downstairs though, and I think I’m going to haul it back upstairs after lunch.

    6. DistantAudacity*

      No clue on budgets-

      I use an ergonomic office chair (stool) from Backapp, which I am very pleased with. I can sit on it cross-legged during calls! The base may be a little too wide, though.

      Looking at their website, it seems they have a 30-day free trial period (i am not at all connected to the company!)

    7. YouwantmetodoWHAT?!*

      Not sure if Costco is available to you, but they have a 2 Piece Set: 1 Arctic Flow Seat Cushion and 1 Lumbar Cushion for about $30.

      1. A Poster Has No Name*

        I got an office chair delivered this week from Costco. It’s a HON HVL721 and is quite comfy.

        Not sure if the same model is available, but if you have a Coscto membership, I’d check them out. I figured if it turns out not to be comfy I can easily return it, unlike other online sources.

    8. Lyudie*

      I have a HON chair I got from Office Depot a couple of years ago that I like quite a bit. It’s a basic task chair, so not too big. Mine doesn’t have arms but they have a model that does. I can’t remember for sure how much it was but I don’t think it was more than $75 USD.

    9. Atlantian*

      I used to have to put in a full day at the office and then do more from home in the evenings while working on some strict deadlines. The absolute best WAH setup I ever had was just my lazy boy with a piece of extra laminate flooring placed across the armrests to put the laptop on a hard surface and work the mouse on a hard surface. When I needed to use a keyboard other than the one connected to the laptop, I would just add a second piece of flooring. It’s not ideal for all day every day, but it’s great for a change of scenery or sitting situation for part of the day! It’s easy and doesn’t require a ton of extra purchasing, especially if you have a leftover piece of flooring or something similar from a project.

    10. Drago Cucina*

      Just read this recommendation this morning and immediately tried it. Take a pillow in a pillow case and slip it over the back of the chair. I had a memory foam pillow I didn’t use and it has upped the comfort of my desk chair 100%. This really only works with armless chairs.

    11. Mad Harry Crewe*

      Have a look if there are any office liquidators in your area. I got a standing desk (hand crank) and decent chair delivered for $500, and their chair scheme was really clever – I gave them my budget, they sent four options out with the delivery, and I picked the one I liked best after a quick sit on the sidewalk. I don’t recall the name, but it’s a lower-end version of a chair I used for years at my last job.

  18. Not bingeing any shows*

    My partner and I are juggling full-time jobs and full-time care of a baby. NewJob makes a lot of noises that make it seem like they’re being supportive in this crazy time, but in practice, the expectation is try to keep it business as usual or even ramping up! 5 hours a day is all I can realistically and sustainably commit to. Also salty I was pressured to go in once a week for something that easily could have been put off (company really stretching the “essential business” loophole our local govt put in place). It’s only been a few weeks, and I know I should be grateful to have a job and one that can mostly be done at home, but I’m sooo burnt out and soon over this job I started less than 6 months ago. Everyone else in my department, including my boss, are in the “so much extra time on my hands so I should do more work” camp of social distancing. I’m in the “lucky if I have time for a shower” end of the spectrum. I am very grateful to spend this extra time with the baby (our first and long awaited) and my partner (even if we only see each other during shift change), but this situation is to the point of making me re-evaluate my until now successful and lucrative career. This was supposed to be the ideal job for the work-life balance of career development/new parenting. Any advice ?

    1. Not that Leia*

      No advice but in the same boat. No matter the field, or job, providing full time childcare on top of work is NOT sustainable and can’t possibly be balanced. We’re just trying to hold out until stuff recalibrated. Good luck! And you’re doing great no matter what!

      1. Quaremie*

        No advice, just sympathy. I am in the same boat. Luckily, I have a few bosses, and some of them completely understand the challenges that we are facing, while others don’t. Since my output is not measured on a daily basis, I’m trying to make sure that I complete my goals on a weekly basis and I’m relatively responsive to emails and slack messages during the day. That’s really all I can do!

    2. Jules the 3rd*

      What’s the cost if you push back on their ‘so much extra time’ script with ‘no child care, I need less work’? If you ask to go to part-time (3/4? 1/2?) during this and take a pay cut, would it relieve enough pressure on you, and not impact your job after this is over and you want to go back to full-steam-ahead? And if it did impact you with this company, would you care or just head to the next job?

      A lot of time, we have to get explicit about the ‘life’ requirements and how we’re going to limit work, or people just assume you’re up for the same thing they are. But with companies that talk the balance talk, my experience has been that they are responsive to explicit requests.

    3. Mama Bear*

      It’s not normal. I have WFH before and what we are dealing with is working from home BECAUSE there is a crisis, not simply WFH. People who are caregivers in any way are struggling. I’d be upset if they made me go to work for something unnecessary. Is that thing at all possible to do remotely? Could it be done biweekly? I’d also keep to standard hours and not reply to non-urgent emails after the end of your tour of duty. If you can only really do 5 hrs, are you using PTO or other leave for the rest? What’s the company policy?

    4. Malarkey01*

      I know my job has said they will be more flexible on when you work, so if you need to log off to take care of kids at noon and log back on at 8 that’s okay. Would they be willing to do that if the alternative is you leaving in the middle of this?

    5. Triumphant Fox*

      Are you able to take some leave because you don’t have childcare? You should be able to get 2/3 pay.

      1. Not bingeing any shows*

        I was hopeful when I heard about the leave policy, but this is where they were not walking the walk. The off the record response was that it was intended for those whose jobs can’t be work from home (and working from home and not having childcare doesn’t cut it) and that if I submitted the request, it would be denied.

        The in-person work has to be done in person now that it’s started, but the start could have been delayed with little consequence.

    6. valentine*

      Stop going in. Tell them you don’t want to harm your family.

      Maybe contact the journalist Alison has mentioned.

      Seems like FMLA should have a category for this. Someone, somewhere, has thought of it. I want to read that book.

  19. Myrin*

    When applying for a job right now, should you acknowledge the current situation in some way? In the email you send which has your documents attached, I mean, not in the CV itself.

    At this moment, I’m still biding my time – I have two part-time jobs which I can stay in as long as I want, so it’s not dire, but I actually started job hunting in “my” field right before the outbreak – but I’m still looking at postings. I found one where I’m thinking of applying but it doesn’t say anywhere if there’s been any changes to their hiring rhythm or similar. We’re on state-mandated lockdown so business literally can’t be as usual but I’m torn on whether I should just send in my materials like nothing’s changed, send them in and mention that I’m aware they might not be making any decisions right now, or put it off entirely for several weeks.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I don’t think you have to acknowledge it in a cover letter, but I’m sure it’d come up in a phone screen or interview naturally. Just apply as you would normally apply, I say.

    2. Hanging with the furry freeloaders*

      Not sure if this would apply to you or the jobs you’re applying to –
      I would highlight my prior experience of working from home full time and then going from full time WFH to a mixture of in the office and from home. Also, I’d highlight anything that makes me seem flexible and adaptable to changing situations. I’d also highlight things where I took initiative, problems that I solved or structures I put in place without needing to bother higher-ups.

      In an interview I would ask what unexpected challenges have they faced since the pandemic started.

      1. Myrin*

        Ah, I might have been unclear (or you didn’t mean to reply to me, could be both!), but I didn’t mean in my résumé but in the email I send with my application materials. Like, the one that usually just says “Please find attached my application for XY position”. I was wondering if I should add something along the lines of “I understand if your hiring process is frozen because of the current situation but I wanted to send in my application regardless blabla” (in a more professional manner, of course).

        1. Analytical Tree Hugger*

          Hm…I don’t think it’s necessary to include that in your email. It doesn’t add anything to helping the hiring team understand your qualifications for the job. And saying it doesn’t change anything about the situation for them (i.e. maybe their hiring process hasn’t been changed, maybe they’re normally slow, etc.).

    3. Elizabeth West*

      I’ve been including “If employees are required to telework during the pandemic, I have considerable experience with it” in my cover letters, if the job lends itself to WFH. I figure it will let them know upfront that it wouldn’t be totally new to me.

  20. Sled dog mana*

    To all the IT professionals out there who do their jobs well, and put up with higher ups who make stupid decisions for them, Thank you!
    To those higher ups you suck!
    The company I provide services to (not my actual employer) was hit by a ransom ware attack last week. We’re at day 8 now, on day 5 we learned that the company had no offline backups.
    Company has decided not to pay and has hired a 3rd party to decrypt the data. We’ve been told weeks before we get anything back. My service line has been shut down for the last 8 days and we are on day 3 of a massive project to basically restart from nothing. We’re hoping that we’ll get historical records back but not counting on getting anything. Life sucks right now.
    But our rank and file IT has been amazing getting most service lines running under 24 hours. They took a little longer to get us setup with the remote connection to my company but they have all been working tirelessly and have been awesome.

    1. Minocho*

      As an IT person, sending a thank you email where their supervisor is copied can be a really thing!

      1. Sled dog mana*

        I wish I could, email is down right now. We’ve got word processing and that’s about it.

    2. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      Not exactly the same situation as yours, but we have had enforced WFH for the last couple of weeks, which as you can imagine is quite IT-intensive for our infrastructure and support team. (I’m in the broader field of IT/Development, but not an “IT professional” in this sense.) Our IT-people have been amazing, pulled out all the stops, thought up solutions to problems they’ve never come across before, kept everyone happy and productive all with a helpful and cheerful demeanour even though they must be feeling the strain – 10/10 to our IT people!!

  21. Sunflower*

    Checking in on those who were unhappy in your job and searching before this pandemic hit- how are you doing now?

    I’m struggling more than I was before. My company has said our jobs are secure but I’ve been paranoid about my job performance since I started- I get mixed feedback and feel like I can’t do anything right so I keep waiting for the axe to drop. The anxiety is truly awful and has been keeping me up at night. I was happy to continue along at meeting expectations, job searching until something better came along but now I feel a need to over-perform to prove my job. And it’s so hard to care- knowing I had job options and there was light at the end of the tunnel and now there’s no telling when I’ll be able to flee. 

    I feel guilty feeling this which only further compels the anxiety- the weird times we’re in find things being true that we’ve been telling ourselves not to think- I’m finding myself feeling guilty about being unhappy and being lucky to have a job at all.

    Just thinking about everyone in this position and wishing them well

    1. Beancat*

      I am decidedly not good.

      I am one of two people required to stay on site at my job and have no work to do. None. I’ve been working on my digital art and some language work, but I feel like it’s only a matter of time before they decide I’m not worth keeping on now that they’ve seen our site’s volume. The issue is also with how listless I feel, it makes it very difficult to search for a job. I’ve tried but nothing seems good right now.

      I’m feeling the same guilt you described, so you are decidedly not alone.

      Hang in there.

    2. Mimmy*

      I’m struggling too. As I mention in my own post below, I am temporarily not working (they haven’t said “you’re laid off / furloughed” – just basing it off of an email sent to the entire agency plus confirmation from my supervisor). A part of me really does not want to go back when this is all over. My students love me but I don’t love the administration (except my lovely supervisor) and the politics.

      What I’m hoping to get into will probably have its own set of headaches but it will be more interesting than what I’m doing now.

      I’m in school now as a way to enter this new field but that is giving me some grief too as one of my classes is so disorganized it’s not even funny. Our professor has been impacted by the pandemic (I don’t know if they have it or a family member) so they’ve been MIA so I get it, but if they can’t manage the class due to the situation, they really need to be upfront about it. (going gender-neutral in case anything I say is identifiable).

    3. Aggretsuko*

      I’m giving up on job hunting. I’m never, ever, ever going to be able to find another job after this (not that I could for the last bunch of years either). Also I’d be an asshole taking a job from someone who’s unemployed, right, even if I was offered one? Which I won’t be, because well, nobody’s wanted me in years of searching.

      1. Analytical Tree Hugger*

        Also I’d be an asshole taking a job from someone who’s unemployed, right, even if I was offered one?

        Well, it’s likely that your current job would then be posted, so it would be a net zero change in jobs available.

        Sorry your job search hasn’t made progress. That really sucks :/

    4. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I am definitely struggling. I was about to interview for a huge new position before this all hit, then it got cancelled, and with that, all of my optimism went out the window. I haven’t heard back from anyone at that company even though I sent a follow-up email last week. I actually got negative feedback for some work I did today and that rarely happens– not to this extent, anyway. My job is supposedly safe but the company is exploring furloughs and lay-offs and I cannot really afford that (technically I can, but I would need another job quickly) so I am trying SO HARD to do better. It’s been hugely demoralizing. I set a goal with my career coach to apply to two jobs a week and so far I have– and I had a phone screen for one of them– but my feelings of hopelessness are stronger than they were in February (and they were pretty bad).

      While I am glad I have a job, I am not feeling guilty for looking. I am being pretty directed about my search and most places have stalled or frozen hiring anyway.

    5. MamaLlama*

      My interview process started before all this but I accepted a new position and gave notice last week. Everything is on track to start NewJob in 2 weeks and OldJob seems to taking my feedback to heart. I want to leave things better than I found them

    6. anon for this*

      I was so ready to leave my current job right before this all hit. I had an interview in mid-Feb with a big tech company, but they rejected me right away. I was ok with that, since they are known for being a bit difficult for work life balance. But then they called me back after a few weeks, right before everything went really crazy in the U.S. and offered me a different role. I took it and today is my last day at my soul-sucking job. There was a period there right after I accepted but before I put in my notice that I was seriously depressed because I thought the new job would rescind the offer but after asking them confirming how solid the position was amongst all this, I felt the most relaxed I have felt in honestly years. So my recommendation is to keep looking for the next job – it could come unexpectedly!

    7. EnfysNest*

      It’s really strange. I currently work for a hospital, but on the facility/administrative side – we’re still required to come in to the office, but for now we’re still working on our regular tasks, while knowing that soon we will probably be taking over positions for more direct support staff within the hospital once other employees start to get sick. I was already utterly uninterested in the work I’m doing and I was just starting my job search, and now I have to drag myself along working on things like plans for restroom renovations while I can hear my boss in the next office over working on the logistics of getting our facility prepped for the onslaught that we know is coming. So it’s harder to focus than ever for me.

      Meanwhile, in a section of 8 people, there are only two of us who aren’t in any of the high-risk groups – one coworker has already gone on extended leave so he can stay home and another will probably be following suit after today. And my boss is very high risk and really should have already stopped coming in for his own sake, but he’s still determined to keep working as long as he can to get things ready. So as much as I wanted to get away before before all this, there’s a distinct possibility that now I might end up as one of the last ones standing as this gets worse and worse, so even if I could get a new position now, I would feel like I was running away when I might be able to still help. So I’m here for now, but still feeling useless for the time being while having this huge thing looming in the near future.

      At the same time, one of the two (huge, seemingly indestructible) companies I was about to submit applications for before all this has just announced furloughs of the majority of their employees, and the other will almost certainly follow suit any time now, so I know it’s for the best that I hadn’t gotten anywhere with those applications yet, but I find that almost more frightening than comforting. If I had been more aggressive with my job search, I could have gotten what seemed like a dream job (I know, I know) just to lose it within a matter of weeks. I’m very glad that my income is stable, that I know my job is safe. But I wanted out of this job and I wanted out of this city and now… yeah, it’s just super surreal and I have a lot of conflicting emotions about all of it.

    8. WFHHalloweenCat*

      It’s really rough. Honestly, this whole situation is just shining a huge spotlight on all the reasons I was wanting to leave (detached/absent HR department, ineffective manager, toxic “we’re a family” culture). But I also don’t feel like I can leave/job search for the foreseeable future. I had given up the idea of changing jobs when I got engaged because I didn’t want to start at zero PTO somewhere new. We are in our slow period so there isn’t enough work for me to do to fill 40 hours a week so I’m feeling a lot of guilt for browsing the internet/”slacking off” while being paid my full salary when I know so many people aren’t as fortunate. I know I am very lucky! But I am also anxious and stir crazy and I miss my mom.

    9. miho*

      wow, are we the same person?

      I was itching to start job searching within the first two months of starting my current position, because I knew right away that the job was not a good fit for me, but I told myself to stick it out for one year and casually look for opportunities on the side. I am kicking myself now for not taking my job search more seriously/starting my job search earlier. I am grateful to still be employed in light of the circumstances, but boy have I reached my breaking point with this job. My company has also promised job security for now, but I know that layoffs will definitely happen if this continues, and I am certain that I will be the first to go given my low performance and overall ill-fit for this position.

    10. lemon*

      I empathize

      I’ve been unhappy in my job for a while. I’m trying to switch my career focus a bit, and am enrolled in a master’s program to help with this. I was saving money so I could quit my job, get a paid internship to help me get experience in the new field, and then focus on school full-time, while working on campus to gain further experience. There isn’t anything really terrible about my current job. The people I work with are nice enough, the company’s response to coronavirus has been really great, and our team has been assured that we’re probably not in danger of being laid off.

      The problem is: I have nothing to do. Every once in a while, my boss sends me a task that takes 20-30 minutes to complete, but then I have nothing else to do for the rest of the day (this was how it was pre-coronavirus, so it’s not due to shifting to WFH). I’m bored out of mind, have told both my boss and grandboss frequently that I have bandwidth to take on more work but they just smile and say “that’s nice,” and nothing changes. I’ve tried pitching my own projects and there’s been no interest. So, I think they’re perfectly fine with paying me to just sit around twiddling my thumbs all day. I’ve thought about taking some online courses to up-skill, but I’m already in school full-time and feel like part of the problem is that the more I learn, the more my skill set exceeds what is required for this job, which increases the boredom and frustration.

      I feel incredibly guilty for hating my job right now, given that 10 million people are now unemployed and don’t know how they’re going to pay their bills, and I’m financially secure (for now). It’s a weird form of survivor’s guilt. But I also do feel trapped for the foreseeable future, as it doesn’t seem like a really smart move to quit my job and give up my health insurance during a global pandemic. I keep trying to focus on the positive (being able to pay my bills and buy food, having health insurance), but it’s still been tough. :(

    11. LosingFaith*

      Yes, I am in this exact situation- my boss is taking out all of his stress and frustration on me, and I went from being a top performer to feeling like I can’t do anything right. I recently spent 24 hours crying on and off and feeling too sick to eat because the way he spoke to me left me very concerned about my job and feeling like all of the good work I’ve done since I joined the company went out the window when I made one (very small) mistake while trying to put out a huge fire. I was really enjoying working from home and being away from the office culture, but this week it all caught up to me.

      I, too, feel very guilty for complaining at all when I have a job, and recently got a huge raise that hasn’t been cut. But I also can’t just be ok with being bullied like this. There is no one above my boss, we don’t have HR, and my industry has all but shut down (so I do feel very lucky to still have a job, but no one is hiring). I just keep reminding myself that I can’t control the way he speaks to me, I can only control my reaction. I know my worth, and I will continue to pay my bills for now and find another job where I’m valued later. I just wish I wasn’t having to work 12 hour days to try to stay afloat right now; it’s really taking a toll on my mental fortitude when he does explode on me.

      1. Jambon-Beurre*

        I’m sorry this is happening to you. I want you to know employers are hiring now and will be when this is all over. Dry those tears, go through this sites old posts on resumes, cover letters, and job searching, and work on your job search and goal plans. Hang in there!

    12. Daisy Avalin*

      OH is/was looking, and WFH has just solidified his need to get out of the industry/company he’s in. He’s been in this industry for half his life (not just half his working life, half his life!) and he just needs to move on. He had an interview just before lockdown went into effect (UK here) but hasn’t heard back from the company, understandably.

    13. All monkeys are French*

      I have been half-heartedly searching for a long time because while my current job is low stress and has nice people, it’s really boring. The current crisis has made me annoyed and resentful when I know I should be grateful for having any employment at all. I’ve been wanting to shift into something more adjacent to my current role, but I haven’t had any success yet, and now it seems practically impossible. I may try to do some distance learning to improve my skills, but it’s hard to know if that will make much of a difference.

    14. LizzE*

      I am likely the outlier here, but the COVID-19 pandemic has made my job more bearable, at least temporarily.

      Background: My job went through a restructure last year and I was eventually meant to move into a role that was more hands on and embedded in my org’s strategic priorities. While we were still building out a team, I was carrying a portfolio of work that was originally managed by my previous supervisor (director-level), who got laid off during the restructure. I always knew this work would be temporary as we were going to build out a new team, but I came to love doing it. However, the supposed new stream of work my new role was earmarked for also seemed promising. But, none of this came into fruition after our new VP was hired. For one, I lost the temporary work I was managing — understandable, as it was meant for a director level staffer. However, I ended up not moving into my new role, except in title. VP basically lame ducked me because she restructured the roles at the director level; I ended up getting screwed over. Additionally, although one of the directors will eventually be my supervisor, new VP decides they need time acclimating to their roles (2 out of 3 were recently) and she would continue managing me for the foreseeable future. And she gave me very little work to do, especially as she doesn’t know how to or should even be managing someone at my level.

      So I have been job hunting since fall 2019. Had a few phone interviews, but have not moved past the phone screener. Was starting to get demoralized, especially after my colleague (the only director who was not new) left for another job. And her departure was just a month before the pandemic hit, so her role had not been filled.

      But now, since we are understaffed and both the VP and her two directors need to be part of a crisis management team + a COVID-19 response efforts (we are in philanthropy), a lot of projects outside of the response work are going to me. And I have been loving it, especially getting to work cross-collaboratively with other teams (even if just through video conference and email). Additionally, being in the office exacerbated anxieties and insecurities I had about not fitting in with this new team dynamic (I cried a lot over this). But, I don’t feel that way anymore since I don’t see my team very often outside of our department check-ins.

      That said, I am still looking for a new job and I am worried about the tough road, given the economic devastation the pandemic is causing.

    15. Sunflower*

      Just wanted to thank everyone for sharing their feelings. I feel better knowing I’m not alone in my feelings of guilt and anxiety and I hope others do as well. I’m reminding myself more often of a saying I often go back to – ‘Constant positivity is a form of avoidance. Sometimes things suck and the healthiest thing you can do is admit it’.

      Another saying I saw last week that has helped ‘You’re not working from home, You are at home during a crisis trying to work’. Try to stay balanced everyone and I’m thinking of all of you :)

  22. Grits McGee*

    My agency is telling us that they’re going to be purchasing laptops for all 3,000+ employees. Tellingly, they haven’t mentioned whether they’re going to be paying for internet/mobile hotspot access for all the employees that don’t have it also….

    1. Ann O'Nemity*

      I came here to ask a similar question.

      Are many employers paying for home internet for their employees?

      1. Working with professionals*

        Can’t speak for all companies, but mine is providing hotspots and internet for employees who don’t normally have access at home and under usual circumstances never work from home.

      2. Putting the "pro" in "procrastinate"*

        My company has provided loaner laptops for anyone who needs one and subsidized the purchase of monitors for everyone. Everyone on my team already had sufficient internet access in their homes, but if they had not, I would have felt comfortable asking the company about it and I wouldn’t have been surprised if they had subsidized the cost for the duration of the stay-at-home order.

        To be clear, I think my company is doing extremely well in supporting us in our work from home efforts. They’re not just saying “we expect you maintain productivity; the rest is up to you. Have a nice day.” Management understands that people’s productivity will be affected, in individual and different ways.

      3. Rachel in NYC*

        Mine provided all of us laptops- many of us had them but they got them for everyone who didn’t have them. And for those who need them, they covered the cost of a second monitor (w/n a price limit).

      4. Eng*

        My employer updated policy to reimburse for up to $40 a month for internet, but the $40 has to be from a prorated rate of work days/total days of your bill. Which is not ideal if you have to bump up your plan for working, you can’t only but internet on weekdays, but I haven’t changed anything about my internet so I’ll take it.

    2. Jules the 3rd*

      My employer paid for a home phone line and supplemented home broadband, back when I started wfh 12 years ago. They cut the broadband support around 2010, and the phones around 2012, though they have negotiated discounts with vendors if we go through their programs. I get 10% off normal residential phone rates, for example. But this employer has >50K US employees, so some negotiating leverage.

      The reasoning was that cell phones and broadband were becoming ‘common’ enough that the work traffic was not extra cost. If your work traffic is extra costs, can you ask your mgr about it?

    3. Generic Name*

      It is a valid question to ask. My company has a teleworking policy and it explicitly states that while the company provides laptops, it does not provide or pay for internet service or any other items (like desks or monitors) required to work from home.

      1. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

        But I inferred (I realize it wasn’t stated) that OPs agency is initiating this because of the “work at home if you can” edict, rather than in response to people wanting to work from home. I think the normal rules could be changed here, since it’s presumably for the benefit of the agency that people can continue to do their normal work at home, rather than have to be laid off/furloughed and all the consequences of that.

        As an example, my company wouldn’t normally provide “item X” (which I am leaving out as it’s too identifiable) to people wanting to work at home, they would expect people to have/acquire their own X when requesting to WFH. But now it’s been enforced, they have acquired and shipped out some Xs to people at home who don’t have their own X already.

      2. A Poster Has No Name*

        I agree with Captain. It’s one thing to have a telework policy as a perk that says you need to provide your own stuff vs. potentially forcing people to spend hundreds of dollars of their own money to maintain business continuity in the face of shutdowns.

        For the shutdown my company allowed us to take home spare monitors if we needed. Not sure about internet access, as I have good internet (with an ISP suspending data caps) and a nice monitor so I didn’t need to.

        My company has said that we should be thinking about cutting costs where we can, but specified those should not be costs related to head count, so I figure I’ll do my part and not request additional hardware or whatever that I don’t actually NEED to do my job.

    4. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      You say “tellingly”… is there a history with the agency that makes you think they won’t provide it, or just keep their mouth shut about things that are an issue? Maybe it just hasn’t occurred to the person writing that policy that everybody might not have broadband level access?

      The cost of an internet/mobile hotspot (at least here in the UK) is a small-ish percentage of the cost of a laptop, I realize it’s all additional cost but small in the scheme of things. You could ask the question directly about internet access, or no doubt someone out of the 3000 (!) will have spotty internet access and be willing to ask.

      The cost is obviously dependent on how data-intensive the work is. For most workloads you wouldn’t be streaming or downloading huge things so perhaps 30GB a month? which could be had for about £20 a month so if a business laptop is perhaps £1000 then an additional 25% to the cost of the laptop over a year.

      And I really hope this doesn’t last for a year… I’d go out of my mind!

      1. Ina Lummick*

        As far as I’m aware (as I’m also based in the UK) is that broadband and mobile phone plans in the US are much more expensive – quick Google search says an average of $60 a month (~£50) for broadband alone.

        (As far as I’m aware too my broadband doesn’t have monthly data limit like mobile data does…the price depends on the speed (to the box) that you want)

  23. CallMeTired*

    Work chats on Google Hangouts is driving me nuts – it’s unorganized and I’m looped into conversations that I don’t want/need to be part of. I’m trying to convince my team (with my boss’s help) to switch to Microsoft Teams but they’re a bit resistant. Anyone use Teams and have selling points of it to share?

    Also: Anyone use it and have tips? I’m new to Teams myself! I just want to escape the hell of Hangouts.

    1. noahwynn*

      The biggest selling point for me is how easy and quick it is to create new teams and channels in Teams. We frequently work on projects across departments and keeping all conversation and files in a single place that everyone can access is very nice. Once the project is done, the files can be moved to a network share for archive and the team or channel deleted.

    2. Tuckerman*

      I’m in a Teams meeting right now :-) Overall, I like it. One really nice feature is that meeting participants are put in a virtual “waiting room” until the moderator lets them in. One thing I do not like is that there is no way to share audio when you screen share, unless you’re on a Windows device (not a Windows operating system, but an actual Windows device).

    3. Anonymous Educator*

      Why is Hangouts hell exactly? I think just use whatever ecosystem you’re in. If your company is a 365 company, use Teams. If your company is a G-Suite company, use Hangouts.

      1. CallMeTired*

        We have both G-Suite and 365 available to us, so it’s available for us to make the switch. The main reason I have an issue with Hangouts is that there is no organization, the chats just organize by latest conversation like any other social media messenger. I think it would easier to push my team toward a system where we put conversations in topic and team focused channels if we start from a blank slate. Also, I want the @mentions, tagging and file storage of Teams. Hangouts is too stripped down for what I want it to be.

      1. Ann O'Nemity*

        Based on your recent comment, I see you mean the messaging. Yes, it’s terrible. My company uses G Suite, but we adopted Slack for messaging. So much better.

    5. ...*

      Ugh I hate teams. Its not user friendly at all and the video sucks. I would recommend slack highly over teams.

      1. CallMeTired*

        My uni won’t allow Slack and says we can’t talk about FERPA protected things on it. :( I’d prefer Slack too, I’m familiar with it.

    6. NW Mossy*

      My company introduced Teams about 6 weeks before this all hit, which is so fortuitous – it’s much better than what we had before (Skype for Business).

      My favorite thing about it so far is using it as a tool to replace more than just chat functions. The file-sharing capabilities work MUCH better than shared network drives, the channels are a major improvement over email aliases, and the video experience is (in my opinion) superior. I’m really pushing my team to use it as a hub, with some success.

      1. Ann O'Nemity*

        Isn’t Microsoft phasing out Skype for Biz and replacing it was Teams? Actually, I thought this had already happened.

        1. Lyudie*

          I think Skype for Biz goes away at the end of the year. My company is planning to transition to Teams in May and we have a bunch of folks on it now as a pilot.

        2. ThatGirl*

          First I’ve heard of it! We’re still using Skype for Business, but I know other departments have opened up Teams. They serve somewhat different functions, though…

    7. Sam*

      You want Google Chat, not Hangouts. I hate that they still provision Hangouts for G Suite customers.

      Chat is more fully-featured, with named rooms w/ subthreads, etc.

    8. Generic Name*

      Teams is much better than Skype in terms of call quality. I also think the chat function is laid out better than Skype in that it’s easier to see your chat history with someone. Honestly though, my favorite things about Teams is the meme generator and gifs. :D

    9. lemon*

      We have Teams, but I’m the only person who uses it. My boss uses only the chat feature.

      The main selling point of Teams is that it’s way more than chat or video. It’s meant to be a full collaboration platform. It’s basically Slack, but for orgs already using Microsoft products. I like the file management features (it uses Sharepoint so your files are in the cloud, could replace using a shared drive that requires VPN or remoting in, which is more convenient). It integrates nicely with all the Office products (Word, Excel, OneNote)– you can pin a Word or Excel document to a Team space, so it’s easy to find and easy to have multiple people working on the same doc. I like using a Microsoft Planner tab to keep track of tasks (it uses Kanban boards, like Trello, which I’m a fan of). It also integrates nicely with other services like Trello and Mailchimp.

      It just has way more power than apps that are only for chat, like Hangouts.

    10. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      If you have Office 365 I would urge you to advocate for using Teams ahead of google hangouts.

    11. Snark no more!*

      It is indeed much easier to work with. Screen sharing, chat features, you can upload files directly to a meeting and pop in and out of meetings if something else needs your attention. AND it seems more secure than Zoom…

    12. SparkleJaffe*

      I love Teams! I’d never heard of it before I returned to an old role about 7 weeks ago, but now I’m my teams go to girl on it. It went from recommended to ridiculously essential in no time at all. We’re constantly video calling, it’s great to have the chat function and the file uploads all in one place, it’s how we’re getting through working from home. I can’t speak of it highly enough. I think it’s easy to use and nice to look at

  24. Roscoe*

    Not a question or anything, just a funny anectdote.

    I’m in a big city. Last fall I left a stable job, albeit one I wasn’t happy at, for a new one. 3 months later that company did a round of layoffs and I was let go. The layoffs were basically due to bad financial planning, but of course the people involved in that planning kept their jobs, and it was many new people who were let go. Well, before everything went down, I got a new job. At the time they were in a coworking space, but I knew they were looking to get their own office space. As it turns out, I’m going to be in the same building as my old job. And it is NOT a big building. There is one elevator, so I’m sure I’ll be running into some of my old co-workers. I have some pent up dirty looks for some of those people. I don’t even know if I can fake politeness to them if they do try to pretend its nice to see me.

    1. I'm A Little Teapot*

      I get it – but don’t. Be pleasant. Petty stuff like this is not worth the potential impact to your professional reputation. And you really need to figure out how to let go of your resentment towards old company. It’s not worth it.

        1. valentine*

          Living well is the best revenge.
          Yes. Kill them with kindness and pretend it feels like a million years ago to you. Let them feel they are specks in your rearview.

      2. Roscoe*

        Eh, I was there 3 months. Now that I have a new job, its not even going to be on my resume again. Letting someone go after they left a good job to come there, and them not being financially prepared isn’t petty, its messing with people’s lives. I’m not saying I’m going to go trash the office, but I have 0 kind words for some of those people there

        1. PollyQ*

          You never know when one of those people may have influence over hiring for your dream job. You don’t need to kiss up or be buddy-buddy, just be polite & pleasant.

    2. Roy G. Biv*

      Practice a mildly surprised, “Oh, you still have a job?” look, and dole that out repeatedly, as needed. It rolls silent snark & passive aggressiveness into one. Kind of like performance art, but just for your own benefit.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Keep telling yourself that you are free of them. I’d be thinking, “You poor slob, you still have to work for That Company.”

      It is rich that you are in the same building as them. Congrats on saving your situation and finding a new place.

  25. sad & confused*

    This is going to be my last post about this because I’ve mostly moved forward but some things just keep playing in my mind.

    One thing that just doesn’t make sense is that right before this all happened, they were hiring like mad. Our office staff doubled and our remote staff quadrupled. Every other day on our company website there were a dozen or so people starting. 1 week into this crisis and 56% needs to be cut? Why was so much time and energy spent on building my department up when they were just going to tear it down again? I mean at the end of the day none of that matters.

    Last week, they removed my access to everything, and I immediately deleted all the chat and phone apps from my phone. Yesterday, I accidentally opened the desktop chat app and saw I still had access and was able to read all the chats I’d received in the past week. In addition to me, 3 of my remote staff was laid off in a scheduled call on Friday. It was done apparently on a conference call led by the head of the remote team (was a peer but not someone I reported to). One of my people was devastated, and one had no idea why she didn’t have access so safe to assume she never got the call. My managers group chat was active and my very incompetent, poor communicator coworker said something about the roles and everyone was like… HUH? They were like, how TF did she get to stay?

    Anyway, I quickly closed the app and deleted the shortcut from my computer b/c it’s not going to help me move forward.

    And this is the kicker — the first round of in office staff was customer service, interns and admins. All lower level staff. I’m the only manager to be let go. My former team is now being managed by the supervisor who reported to me as my role was essentially a duplicate. So why me vs him? Because I was going to go on maternity leave.

    I know in my heart and gut my pregnancy was 100% the reason upper management let me go first. No other manager was let go or will be let go. I thought about talking to a lawyer, but Im convinced nothing will come of it because I have no way of proving it other than my gut feeling. and optics. And idk if this is misguided but I don’t want to burn this bridge – I don’t want to ever go back but turnover is high so I could easily come across these decision makers at future jobs.

    With that said…I’m applying for jobs now. I’m not sure what to say to a prospective interviewer who asks why i’m looking. I’m a little worried that if I say RIF, they’d find it fishy. I just feel angry, sad and confused.

    1. Jules the 3rd*

      No one is going to find RIF fishy in March or April. A lot of companies didn’t have this on their radar, and certainly didn’t expect the social shutdown. I wouldn’t emphasize ‘only manager let go’, just ‘RIF’.

      The ‘only manager and I happen to be pregnant’ is super suspicious, you are 100% right on that. And you can’t even Glassdoor because it would be too easy to identify you. Your employer sucks, I hope you find someplace new and better soon.

      1. sad & confused*

        an RIF in accounting though? I put on my resume that I was a manager. From what I’ve read, managers are rarely let go in layoffs, except in my case so I’m a little apprehensive about that.

        I considered putting a Glassdoor review but later on, when I move on to a new place eventually. At that point I feel like I’d sound less angry and bitter. Right now I’m on “furlough” and trying to remain “positive” so I can “come back” when “things get better.”

        1. Mama Bear*

          I’d keep it direct and simple. Sometimes departments get combined and managers are let go. If you get laid off vs fired, I’d just hold onto that, even if their choice was smarmy and horrible. If you are furloughed and might go back, then maybe let this time be for them to figure out their poor staffing choices. I hope you enjoy your leave and everything goes well for you and your expanding family.

        2. Diahann Carroll*

          I’ve seen manager laid off in previous companies, so it’s not unheard of. I think you’re overthinking this because of how (rightfully) angry you are. No one is going to be side-eyeing you when you job search for being laid off right now – it’s happening across all industries and at all levels.

        3. PollyQ*

          I’ve known plenty of managers who were laid off. Literally millions of people have been laid off, or furloughed, in the last two weeks. You really, really don’t need to worry about how this will look to future employers.

    2. ina garten's giant cocktail*

      so they were building up the department before a global pandemic and now, during the global pandemic, they’re shutting it down? that makes sense to me

      1. ina garten's giant cocktail*

        also just tell the prospective employers you were laid off because of the global pandemic. 701,000 jobs were eliminated in march, it’s not like everyone else isn’t in the same boat as you

        1. Mazzy*

          For the most part, but I bet there are some companies out there getting rid of people too preemptively, maybe OP works for one of them.

      2. sad & confused*

        true. This was the 3rd time in the company’s history they tried to bring the department up and running, and it finally was successful after I joined it.

      3. The Other Dawn*

        Exactly. Up until the pandemic, we were hiring, making all sorts of plans for my own department, just made an internal hire, etc. But now everything is on hold. It’s happening everywhere–building up a department and then laying off people when the pandemic hit doesn’t seem odd to me at all.

    3. I'm A Little Teapot*

      “Due to the COVID-19 impacts, I was laidoff like many others both at that company and others.” You’re over thinking this. There have literally been millions of people laid off, furloughed, or otherwise out of a job. Any hiring managers who don’t understand this are really too dumb to be a hiring manager.

      It doesn’t matter right now if they laid you off because you’re pregnant. You can’t prove it. Let it go. Move on, interview, find a new job.

      1. sad & confused*

        I’m doing the best I can to move on. looking for jobs, created my resume, applied, waiting to hear back. 6 years can’t be forgotten in 6 days. Just wanted to vent. I know eventually things will be better, but it just feels crappy for the moment.

    4. sad & confused*

      Thanks all for the reality check. I am overthinking it. They explained it to me as a layoff/furlough but I get to keep my insurance indefinitely.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Your situation sucks, I am so sorry. I hope you find a company that respects and takes care of good people like you.

      2. That'll happen*

        Furloughs are temporary layoffs. When people are laid off they might get a severance that includes some insurance coverage, but you are still an employee of the company which is why you get to keep your insurance. The idea is to rehire you when business picks up again. I wouldn’t say you were laid off when you are interviewing as that is not entirely accurate. Just say you are one of the people at your company furloughed because of the pandemic. Employers will understand.

        1. Jeffrey Deutsch*

          How many of us remember when “temporary layoff” was a redundancy? Good times.

          …but you are still an employee of the company which is why you get to keep your insurance. The idea is to rehire you when business picks up again.

          My understanding is that sad & confused was indeed permanently laid off. The company may just be paying her insurance indefinitely as an act of compassion (and possibly guilt in this case). It’s not uncommon for employers to do this for at least some time for people they permanently discharge.

          So unless I’m missing something, it would be both unethical and risky to say you were furloughed instead of laid off.

        2. sad & confused*

          I’m not entirely sure, I just know that I”m considered to be “active” so I can keep my health insurance. But even if things “do pick up” I have reason to believe htey will not want to bring me back (being pregnant/maternity and all).

  26. Insert witty name here*

    In my current and previous jobs, I’ve worked with people who are easy to get along with and social, yet tend to slack off when it comes to doing actual work. (You have to light a fire in order to get them to do anything or involve the boss.)

    When I interviewed for my current position, the person that I’m working with was not in the interview. I have to say something is coming from the boss if I want something done.

    This happened in a previous position as well, but the coworker was in the interview process. (The person was a totally different person in front of the boss, so it wouldn’t have mattered anyways.)

    Is there any way to tell what your coworkers are like before you take the job? Or do you just have to find out once you’re in the job?

    1. Sunflower*

      I’m assuming these people aren’t your reports- if you are able to assign them work, have they gotten guidance from your boss that you are able to do so? For example, sometimes I’d assign work to assistants but it was very clear from the boss that this was part of their job.

      If you’re able to assign work and they know they are supposed to be doing it and they just aren’t doing it, I’d bring it up with your boss.

    2. Alianora*

      In interviews, I usually ask who I would be working with. But it’s not a great indicator of personality and culture – people will usually only say positive things about their coworkers. Still, it’s something.

      1. Filosofickle*

        It’s true that people will mostly only say nice things, but I did once have an interview where one of them broke ranks and told me outright that management was terrible and it was a frustrating place to work!

        Assuming they don’t do that, how they answer can still be telling. What they don’t say and careful word choices reveal a lot. It’s usually pretty easy to spot enthusiastic, warm descriptions versus generic or guarded statements.

        In my jobs, it’s been reasonable ask to meet to meet the team or set up a conversation with key coworkers as part of the interview process.

    3. Choggy*

      The *one* interview where I was not included (must have been on vacation or something) they hired my current coworker who is the biggest slacker I’ve ever known in a work environment. I knew it after the first couple of weeks, and when I Googled his name, it just confirmed that nobody wanted this guy, and he’s just been passed around like a hot potato. There really is no good way to know who you are dealing with sometimes, until they know they’ve cemented themselves into their job and they show their true colors. This guy has been here 5 years, and has a chronic illness, when he all of a sudden needs treatment, he calls out the night before he is supposed to be the primary for the next day…every. single. time. He never offers to take anyone else’s day, we are all just expected to eat it. He does not have my sympathy.

    4. NicoleK*

      Unless you have an inside connection who can give you the scoop, you’ll just have to find out once you’re in the job.

  27. MissGirl*

    What are everyone’s best tips to make yourself as lay-off proof as possible? I know there’s no guarantee ever, but I want to make myself as useful as possible. In other roles I’ve gotten to the point I was indispensable and confident it would take most of the company going down to result in a lay-off. However, I just started a new job in October and my role isn’t super necessary in the new climate.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I wish there were ways to make yourself lay-off proof, but I don’t know if you can really do that. Sometimes, entire departments are laid off at once, so even if you’re the “best” employee in that department, it may not matter.

      1. The Original K.*

        Yeah, I agree. I think there are industries and vocations that are less susceptible to layoffs than others, but when it comes down to it we’re all replaceable.

        1. Rachel in NYC*

          That was really my thought. My mother’s comment the other day was that was grateful for my job and my BIL’s (he’s military and I work in administration at a university- both pretty recession proof jobs.)

      2. MissGirl*

        There’s no 100 percent guarantee but I would like to focus on what I can control versus I can’t.

    2. SomebodyElse*

      A couple of things in general come to mind, which may or may not be applicable in your situation.

      1. Be the person that people want to work with. Be easy to collaborate with, be the one who’s willing and able to jump in and help. Get things done when they need done. All of those things that make you one of those people who others want to be a part of the team. Graciously take on the ‘not fun’ jobs and tasks (don’t go overboard with this, make sure it’s relevant to your position and not pouring coffee)
      2. Keep learning. Get to know other functions of your company. Offer to help on projects, keep an eye out for interesting opportunities.
      3. Be flexible, within reason. Accept changes outside of your control, do your best to help others with them as well.
      4. Be good at your job.

      2. A New Level of Anon*

        So, in the layoff I just went through, a whole bunch of people who exemplified 1-4 got laid off mostly because they were relatively inexpensive to give severance packages to. On the other hand, I know someone who is the exact opposite of 1-3 who has survived basically every layoff because (a) they were hired at a time when the salary range for their position was a lot higher than it would be now and (b) their severance package would cost an arm and a leg.

        1. Jeffrey Deutsch*

          Interesting.

          The conventional wisdom has been (and former HR VP and current career/business consultant Cynthia Shapiro continues to teach) that it’s the most highly compensated who are the first to go.

          Maybe things are changing?

    3. Miranda Priestly's Assistant*

      One thing that might help is to work in companies with diverse revenue streams. Like consulting companies with clients from a wide variety of industries. That way, if there is a recession that impacts one or two industries, your entire company won’t go down.

      Stay away from start-ups – too much risk. A lot of start-ups tend to overhire in the beginning and then lay people off when the money does not materialize. (I discontinued interviewing for a start up right before I got my current job. Last I heard, the person they hired for the position got laid off. I thank my lucky stars for listening to my gut.)

      This should be obvious, but be a pleasant person to work with. Be reliable, polite, etc. If you’re a pain to work with, your manager will snip you off the minute they find an excuse.

      Again, non of these are foolproof, but they might decrease the chances.

      1. Miranda Priestly's Assistant*

        Also, try not to work in anything that could become automated. This is hard to predict, but it helps to think about it.

      2. voluptuousfire*

        ^^This. My smaller company was acquired by a much larger company in tech and while my job is kinda boring, at least I know I have one. I’m here until I get a better role elsewhere.

    4. Diahann Carroll*

      Get in good with the decision-makers at your company. Having someone higher up that can advocate for you in the room during lay-off conversations is incredibly helpful.

        1. Diahann Carroll*

          No one is advocating brown nosing. What this means is, you need to make yourself visible to the people who make the top-level decisions in your company. A lot of times that’s by doing consistently good work, coming up with new processes and/or procedures that make everyone’s lives easier, becoming the subject matter expert that people come to with questions in whatever section of your company you work in, being flexible and willing to help others, etc. Those types who manage to do these things are rarely first in mind to get rid of because they’ve made their contributions to the company clear and they exhibit tangible value.

          1. Miranda Priestly's Assistant*

            If you can accomplish it. In my last company, my jealous managers gatekept like crazy and made it a point to undermine high performers to their bosses by taking credit for work, keeping their accomplishments hidden, etc. It depends on the structure of the company, but it would have been impossible in my last job to get “in” with upper management because it was difficult to get around your direct manager.

            1. Diahann Carroll*

              Oh, I had a boss like that – she was so annoying. Anytime her boss, the VP of our division, would ask me to do something for him or the department without asking her first, she would lose her mind. It was unreal. My current manager is great – he gives me public credit to higher-level execs and decision-makers on things I didn’t even do or only had a minor hand in! LOL. I appreciate that because I’m fully remote outside of this pandemic situation, so don’t see a lot of these people often, and it would be all too easy for them to forget I’m on the team. This is what I mean by finding an advocate in your company (my boss has quite a bit of influence at our company as does grandboss, who also loves me).

      2. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

        Any hints on approaches to “get in good” with these people? Do you mean on a work level (producing good stuff that is visible to them) or an interpersonal one?

        1. Diahann Carroll*

          See above, although it doesn’t hurt to also try to find something on a personal level that you have in common with your decision-makers and use that to your advantage. For example, current grandboss is an indie music junkie, as am I, so he and I regularly talk about new bands or old music we like. Because he’s comfortable talking to me, he approaches me to get my opinion and feedback on documentation that he sends to his boss, our division’s VP while giving me credit for it.

      3. MissGirl*

        This is where I’m struggling. In previous roles, I had to time to work my way into notice by the decision makers by having high visual projects. At this new job, I haven’t had time. My current position is sort of off on its own, which is making me feel adrift.

        1. Diahann Carroll*

          Can you come up with some projects on your own? Maybe something that could save your company money or gain new clients? That’s typically what I’ve done in the past, and I was only laid off once early in my career (before I knew to do this).

      4. LizzE*

        Yup, I was about to suggest this. Perhaps I am cynical, but I have seen people who either were top-performing, innovative, well-liked, had incredible institutional knowledge, or a combo of these traits still be let go because they were not liked by the decision-makers. Not advocating for someone to not focus on skills, knowledge, or the ability to work with well with peers, but perceptions from above really can help or hinder your career.

        1. Diahann Carroll*

          Yup – whether we like it or not, likability matters as does the ability to form alliances and get sponsors who have immense political capital and are willing to use it for you.

    5. purple otter*

      Have a skillset that brings in revenue and be really really good at it. Or be crosstrained/flexible enough to work on a variety of roles. My team just let someone go – she was the second most junior member, and the least skilled so she was costing us money instead of making money. She only had experience in one type of work (which is fair, she’s only a year out of college), and other junior members of our team had experience in other types of work already. She was already put on PIP earlier this year and now with work being completely unpredictable at the moment… she was the first to go.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      Never underestimate the power of being personable/likable. It may not save your job but it MIGHT bring you to your next job if you need to move elsewhere. It’s an investment in your future and it’s a sleeper, you won’t know what ground work you have laid.

      1. Amy Sly*

        Yeah, being the person people want to work with will put you higher on the list of “people to keep” and will get you on the list of “people to network about to help them find something else” in case of a layoff.

    7. Alan*

      No one is indispensable but being seen as adaptable has got to be high on the your list. Any job you have has the potential to be eliminated but if you’re seen as someone who can take on new tasks at the drop of a hat it will be much easier to find a new role for you rather than get rid of you

      1. Miranda Priestly's Assistant*

        I second this. Intangibles may be what saves you. You can train anyone to type, do data entry/programming, etc. You can’t necessarily train people to be quick learners or critical thinkers. If you prove yourself as versatile people will be less willing to lose you.

    8. Mediamaven*

      Be overcommunicative and proactive if you are now working from home. Jump to take on something new, support your supervisors. Bring new ideas to the table.

  28. Dr Useless*

    I’m feeling slightly energised by having submitted a job application this morning. I was afraid the current situation might mean there wouldn’t be any job postings, but this one is very promising! I’m currently only on a fixed term contract, so I need to find something by the end of the year and I’d love for it to be permanent. Fingers crossed!

    How’s are other job searchers doing?

    2. BabyCarrot*

      Right now the market is not really good where I am. I still keep my eyes open for opportunities and postings and I send my resume when I find something that fits. I still have a job right now so no stress there, although working from home with two preschool age kids is kinda stressful.!
      Good luck to you!

  29. Steggy Saurus*

    I manage the staff of a small library that’s working from home right now. Should I have a meeting with my staff? Under normal circumstances I’m not a big meeting person – we meet once a month just for updates and to bring everyone together for the occasional group decision that warrants in-person discussion.

    We don’t have anything specific to discuss, it’s just we’re all so scattered that I thought maybe a check-in would be appreciated. Personally, I loathe video/conference calls, but I don’t want that to get in the way of what my team needs. Maybe I should just ask everyone if they want a group conference call?

    1. MissGirl*

      Yes, do it. I loathe meetings for the sake of meetings but my anxiety runs rampant in the absence of information. No news doesn’t necessarily mean good news. I appreciate my company has started weekly ask anything meetings.

    2. Dr Useless*

      I’d say go for it, but specifically schedule it to be brief. I also loathe video calls and especially group conference calls, but as someone currently working in a library I’ve been feeling pretty lonely and detached from my team while working from home.

    3. Matilda Jefferies*

      Yes, absolutely! I try to avoid meetings for the sake of meetings as well, but this is a different situation. I manage a team of four – we’ve been doing weekly “coffee break” meetings over Webex – no set agenda, but just a place and a time where we can all see each other and say hi. I’m also checking in with each of them individually, either by phone/email/chat, a couple of times a week. I wouldn’t normally do this much checking in, but informal chit chat is so important in lot of jobs, and lots of people are really missing it right now.

    4. ET*

      I’ve definitely been appreciating the departmental and informal check-ins my bosses and coworkers have been setting up. Ask your team what they want and how you can help everyone stay connected! :)

    5. Sara without an H*

      It’s probably a good idea. People who aren’t used to working from home may find themselves feeling isolated. Just set it up to be brief and, if people find it helpful, schedule a follow-up.

    6. Policy Wonk*

      We still hold regularly scheduled staff meetings by conference call, but send an agenda around first, which lists the order in which people will be called on to talk about what is going on in their portfolios. Cuts down on everyone talking over each other and stopping at the same time. There is still discussion, calls for questions, etc. and we’ve actually had some decent discussions. It used to take an hour but on the phone now takes 10-15 min, but it is important as it helps everyone feel connected.

    7. Steggy Saurus*

      Thank you all for your advice! I’m a loner, so I am totally loving the isolation right now. But it is important to remember that I’m weird. :)

    8. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      A virtual meeting with “Check in to see how we are all doing in these strange times”, job done.

    9. Drago Cucina*

      I agree. My new library consortium is doing this and it’s a nice weekly check-in.

    10. Windchime*

      Another vote for doing it. I also don’t like appearing on video calls, but I’m just making myself get over it because I do find it helpful to see the faces of my coworkers. We are having a touch-base twice a week. We spend a few minutes just chatting, then the manager asks for a quick update from everyone (no details, just giving everyone a chance to give a couple of sentences about what they’re working on).

      I find it helps just to stay in contact.

  30. Lovecraft Beauty*

    I feel like I’m running an enormous scam. Even before The Virus, my mental health was taking a nasty dive, and I was doing what I consider the bare minimum at work — showing up on time, doing the work assigned to me, that kind of thing — and my boss was weirdly impressed. Now, my mental health is trash and I am basically showing up at my Zoom meetings and focusing on the low-effort tasks in the backlog of work instead of more complex project work. And ….my boss thinks I’m being incredibly productive. Either this says something incredibly awful about my predecessors/coworkers or my standards need some adjusting.

    1. General von Klinkerhoffen*

      … or both.

      I don’t think it’s a problem you’re only dealing with low level stuff. Other people will be getting their motivation from more substantial project work. Everything will get done. You can get back to normal when you have the bandwidth to do so.

      I hope you feel better soon.

      1. Mama Bear*

        If you are getting done what needs to be done, then you are doing fine, IMO. Obviously don’t ignore the big things but sometimes a little paper pushing is just what we need to regroup.

      2. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

        +1, as someone who works vaguely in the ‘development’ sphere (I inferred, but it wasn’t quite stated, that there is a ‘shared’ backlog and so OP may be part of a Scrum/Agile team)… just because things are perceived as “low-effort”, doesn’t mean they are not valuable!

        Often it’s the contrary.

        I have come across many developers in Agile teams who shun the “easy”, “routine” stuff… wanting to work on the latest complex/sexy thing they can get their teeth into — if they have the bandwidth for it. And as a result the “low-effort” stuff gets neglected, even if it has a high impact for the end user!

    2. Mill Miker*

      It’s sounds like you’re being reliable, predictable, present. Your boss is probably dealing with people who are struggling with the remote work, or going above-and-beyond in some places but letting other things slip in unpredictable ways, maybe due to stress or technical issues or taking advantage of being at home (for good or bad reasons). And then there you are. Work gets assigned, work gets done. Work doesn’t get assigned? Things still keep ticking off the backlog.

      If you’re being that consistent you’re probably the one person your boss just doesn’t have to worry about right now.

    3. Reba*

      “basically showing up at my Zoom meetings and focusing on the low-effort tasks in the backlog of work” seems like a pretty healthy approach that a lot of managers would appreciate.

      It sounds like you push yourself hard and have internal pressure to achieve (that doesn’t align with the external expectations of productivity). This is really common with imposter syndrome, imposter syndrome is itself very common, and fortunately it can be helped with therapy! Even if therapy is off the table right now, as I imagine it is for many folks, basic CBT techniques for recognizing and challenging your negative self-talk can be learned online with free resources.

      Sorry to jump straight to “therapy!” because I know that often feels unhelpful. But the point I’m trying to make is that, at least to this stranger, it sounds like the adjustment that’s needed right now is not to your work output, but rather to the way you are thinking about it and about yourself by extension.

      Maybe ultimately this job won’t be for you, because it doesn’t challenge you in the best ways or doesn’t feel like the achievements you want to be making. But for now, try to remind yourself that in a truly wild time, you are doing good steady work and that’s worthy of feeling good about.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        So agree.

        Your boss is happy with you. He gives you nice compliments. Allow yourself to say “thank you” without saying “but-but-but”. Just graciously say, “hey, thanks.” I am talking about your internal dialog, not what you say to your boss.

        Sometimes we just have to put the brakes on our runaway train of thoughts and simply accept the fact that the boss said, “Good job!”

        This is a very smart boss. He knows everyone is struggling with something. Decide to think of his words as encouragement in these difficult times WITHOUT inserting your own judgement of your own work. Breathe.

      2. Lovecraft Beauty*

        Guess whose therapist is in the hospital with corona, oh yeah. Which is definitely part of why my mental health is trash right now!

        Yeah, I have been a very high achiever previously, so this “keeping my head above water” approach is setting all sorts of internal alarms.

    4. DAMitsDevon*

      I’m in a very similar boat, tbh. On top of that, I feel like my ability to concentrate has decreased since things with COVID started getting worse, so my ability to multi-task is pretty nonexistent right now.

      1. Jambon-Beurre*

        I think this is normal think right (less concentration) and most people are just doing the best they can with the new circumstances.

    5. Mad Harry Crewe*

      Depending on your boss, you might also say “I’m struggling with focus on complex/project work right now, but I find the backlog stuff to be very soothing. Are you ok if I keep focusing on that while we all get used to our new normal?”

      I have a 1:1 with my manager every two weeks, and in the last one I was totally up front that I was struggling with focus on longer/more complex tickets (stuff that I would normally have done in an hour, no problem), but I was aware of it and had some ideas for how to manage. She was very understanding, had some suggestions for other things I could try, and didn’t give me any grief over it. Now it’s out in the open, so I don’t feel like I’m sneaking around or need to hide how much I’m doing/not doing. I can honestly celebrate the stuff I get done and set realistic priorities and goals for my work.

    6. Jambon-Beurre*

      Sounds like you’re being incredibly hard on yourself. From your description, seems like you’re doing what is required right now, and it is appreciated.

  31. Manon*

    Does anyone have advice on how to use connections when applying to jobs, or scripts to use?

    I’m graduating in May and either know someone or work with people who know people at a few of the places I’m applying, but I’m not sure how to use these connections or what I should even be asking for. The idea of asking someone to “put a good word in with the hiring manager” just seems kind of slimy and self-serving.

    1. Jules the 3rd*

      Most employers won’t pay any attention to data from this route anyway. Recommendations carry weight if it’s people who worked with you directly, but people who just know you socially or know someone you’ve worked with won’t be effective at all. What you can do to use those connections is to check the company culture and working environment, though only with people you know, not ‘people who know people’.

      The exceptions are:
      1) Small companies. You can call someone you know there and ask if they are hiring. Scripts might be, ‘I’ve heard X and Y about the company. I’ve been interested in X, and have done A, B, C related to it, and I’d love to learn more about Y. Do you know if the company is hiring in X?’ This won’t work in a company that’s more than maybe 500 people – anything bigger, and they’re going to be doing manager-specific hiring. Do not pretend to call to catch up and then segue into employment, be straight-forward and clear so that you’re not wasting their time.
      2) The people you know are professors who have built a relationship with the company. I had one grad professor (supply chain) who would identify his top students to specific companies. I think 4 of the 5 that he recommended got offers. But my memory is that was done through the standard recommendation letters and application process, not any special ‘hey can you call your contact’ stuff.

      1. Manon*

        To clarify, these are all people I’ve worked with and not people I know socially, and all for fairly small foundations/nonprofits with specific open positions.

        That script is helpful though, thanks!

    2. Emma Woodhouse*

      I often have students from my college reach out to me asking for insight into our hiring process. While I can submit a resume on their behalf (and get a referral bonus if they’re hired) I can’t influence the process. It never hurts to reach out, especially if there are referral bonuses involved. I think asking for advice or about a career path is a helpful way to go about it. It’s human nature to enjoy talking about yourself.

      I always take the time to get on the phone with students reaching out to me to talk about my company and our niche industry.

    3. Nicki Name*

      You can ask them about the team that’s hiring, what it’s like, and what they might be looking for specifically (often at medium-to-large businesses, there’s a stock description for a job title but different teams might have different priorities about which of the standard list of skills would be most useful to them).

      In addition, if you have a contact at a company which doesn’t have any openings listed that you feel qualified for, you can ask, “Hey, do you know about anything coming up that I might be a good fit for?”. There might be a job that’s been listed internally but not externally yet, or they might know that the junior llama groomer on Team X just gave their notice and the company is likely to be looking for a replacement.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      I am a big fan of using the third party approach. “If you know of anyone who is hiring, would you let me know?”
      This takes the weight off the person you are speaking to, and makes it more about general scuttlebutt.

      If they do notify you of a job opening, you can ask for a reference or a good word or whatever fits with their connection to you. In doing this, I like to offer an easy out. I assume that they can’t. “I am not sure if you are allowed, but if you could put in a good word for me, I sure would appreciate it.” This allows people to cover up the fact that they may not know you well enough to feel comfy putting in a good word. They can simply respond with, “I don’t have access to the decision makers here.” Just thank them profusely for the lead and go forward on your own.

    5. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      Unpopular opinion alert: apply as if you didn’t have these connections. Otherwise you are perpetuating the elitist “who-kn0ws-who”-ocracy.

    6. Gumby*

      I’m sure there are people who use their networks more efficiently than I do, but when I have gotten jobs in the past via “connections” it has been as simple as letting people know I am job searching. That’s it.

      My first real internship? My uncle was chatting with his neighbor, her company hired summer interns, I gave him my resume and he gave it to her and I got an interview. From there it was all on me, but I never would have *heard* of the job w/o that chat on the sidewalk. (I didn’t meet the neighbor in person until half way through my internship; she worked on an entirely different product line than I ended up working on.)

      Current job? Basically all of my friends knew I was job searching. At one point one said, “hey, my company has an opening that you might be a fit for” so I applied – not even through that friend – and got an interview.

      For the most part people *want* to help.

  32. jack*

    watching the person who is supposed to be our plant’s COVID point person sitting right next to someone for an hour with MAYBE a foot between them made my blood start boiling yesterday

  33. Jules the 3rd*

    Covid19 – Company reaction
    A friend of mine is a mechanic at a dealer, one that’s got several dealerships across our area and over 1k employees. They told the mechanics, ‘you’ll be working 3 days / week at 80% pay so that we can stay distant and keep you employed. We want you to want to work for us during and after.’

    I don’t know what they’re doing for sales / office people, but I thought that was a decent way to balance all the competing needs.

    1. TiffIf*

      As long as they are also sanitizing shared spaces and tools (say, person A works a particular repair bay Monday and Wednesday and person B works it Tuesday and Thursday so even though they are not in the space at the same time it still needs to be sanitized between people) then that is a pretty good solution.

  34. Dazzler*

    I have a trainee in the llama dazzle department (9 workers). Our job is to put on bows, glitter, and the fancy halter before they go to the parade. It takes about 6 months to learn all the details, and is important all the llamas match when they get to the parade. I will be training her for 6 months (we are in month 1) and checking her work for 6-12 months. It is very important to have an eye for detail and we mostly work independently but need to put out a cohesive line of llamas.
    Trainee is an older woman who has had a lot of independent gigs in the past but no experience in this particular area (she was an independent hoof trimmer and we are finishing details for the company parade). She has a good eye and can pay attention to detail, I expect she could be a really good dazzler eventually. But…she keeps getting sidetracked in the way she thinks things should be and can’t let stuff go. Like, we all use the same type of ribbon box and the area that holds the gold bows is labeled yellow. There are no chiffon, lemon, goldenrod, or any other variety of ribbons in that hue. She is upset the label is “wrong” and wants the fence and barn building department (which is overwhelmed fixing fences) to make new ribbon boxes. Today she derailed a meeting for over 30 minutes while more experienced dazzlers acknowledged it is labeled yellow and gave her options from “Oh yeah, I just ignore it” to how to make a label to stick over the top (all of which I had told her last week). But she is stuck on wanting fence and buildings to make new ribbon boxes even tho they are busy rebuilding fences so the llamas don’t escape.
    She also wants to change the bows from one on every second braid to every 7th llama have a bow on every third braid. She wants to do it that way because she thinks the llama breeders who sold the crias would like it better and is very sure the CEO (who she hasn’t even met) will like it too – but it isn’t our call to make, we need to follow the guidelines and it is important every person on the team does the 7th llama the same way. She is willing to do every second bow for now but won’t drop talking about changing it.
    I have told her consistency is important between the dazzlers, and it is important our llamas not only match each other but are cohesive across the whole parade. Some of the decoration decisions are because the zebras, horses, or sheep have specific constraints and our llamas follow along so everyone knows we are part of the same parade. How we apply and the type of decorations tends to change frequently as better ribbons are made.
    I think she is either: trying to prove her worth by coming up with “”new and improved” when she hasn’t learned the basics of the job yet, has problems ceding control of decisions, or is trying to get transferred to the fencing crew. Really, we just need another hand in dazzling the llamas. This is what she was hired for and she will probably be very good at. The big bosses are not looking for additions to the fencing crew and she does not have the proper qualifications for it; company has spent quite a bit of effort the past three years making the parade more cohesive. This is definitely not a company that doesn’t want employees to speak out or find better ways to do things but it sure doesn’t look good (to me at least) for her to be asking for these (major) changes this early in training and not being able to drop it when told we have reasons. I’m not sure if this is something I am just touch about as I feel she is trying to go around me during training or if this is something I bring up to my boss.

    1. Sara without an H*

      Hi, Dazzler — Before you take it up with your boss, you really need to have a frank and explicit conversation with your Trainee. “I hear that you have lots of ideas about the work. But right now, you’re not at the level of experience where you can gauge realistically what ideas will work and what won’t. For the rest of your training period, and for several months after that, I really need you to focus on learning the system and procedures we have in place now. Can you commit to that going forward?” (You can find better scripts in the AAM archives.)

      Then see what happens. If she can absorb this kind of feedback and apply it, well and good. If she can’t, DON’T recommend that she be kept on after her training period ends.

      You should probably give your boss a heads-up, describing what you’ve seen and what you’ve done to address it with the employee. But have that conversation first, and don’t soften your language. You can be polite and professional, but you also have to be really clear.

      1. valentine*

        Great script. First, be clear that these things are not going to change. I, too, want to improve things and think I have great ideas, and would benefit from someone telling me what areas I’d be wasting my time doing that for.

        And don’t let her derail meetings. You could have said, “That’s just what I explained the other day. We can circle back after the meeting. I’m interested in the next agenda item.”

    2. SomebodyElse*

      My standard script for this one (can be repeated as many times as needed)

      “Eager Elinor, you have some good suggestions and I encourage you to ask questions about why we do some of the things they way we do them. But I’m going to ask that you and I discuss them in our training so that I can explain the background and context that you don’t have yet. In some cases I’m going to have to pull the ‘That’s just the way we do things’ and you’ll have to trust that we have our reasons. Once you’ve been here awhile you’ll understand why we don’t worry about things like the boxes being labeled yellow”

      1. Mad Harry Crewe*

        This is really good – especially providing the history. I am kind of a weird-details sponge, and I was at my last job for a long time, so I would frequently do the “yes, it seems like you would want to do it this way, but actually that messes up the fence team’s work in ways you aren’t aware of” or “yeah, I know that seems random, but here’s how it came about [backstory]” spiel with my trainees – giving people context helps them understand that it’s not just a random decision, there really is a reason behind it – even if it’s just “and by then, we were all so frustrated that we agreed that this was good enough and we will never to speak of it again.”

    3. Llellayena*

      No real advice, but now I’m picturing an entire New Orleans Mardi Gras parade made of llamas, zebras and sheep! With all the decorative trimmings! And choreographed dancing! Thank you!

      1. Nessun*

        YEssssss. Thank you Dazzler for your fantastic choice of analogy, and Llellayena for adding dancing to my mental image!!

    4. Jostling*

      I think you’re right that’s she’s just insecure in her new role (especially since it sounds like a dramatic workflow, not just content, shift from what she was previously doing). I have nothing to add to the other comments here except to be patient with her as she settles in, but I did want to commend you on the depth of your metaphor. Cracked me up! Onward, llama dazzlers!

    5. My boss made me walk across coals for a promotion*

      Don’t have any advice to give, but I have to say I’m super impressed by the attention to detail about llamas.

    6. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      > I think she is either: trying to prove her worth by coming up with “new and improved” when she hasn’t learned the basics of the job yet, has problems ceding control of decisions, or is trying to get transferred to the fencing crew.

      Another possibility to consider (that I could well be wrong about)… that she has been hired by your mutual boss to change things up about the way you work, and it’s not been communicated to you somehow.

      I thought about this for a while before writing it, because it seemed unlikely. She is recruited as “just a llama decorator”. She doesn’t have experience in this specific area.

      > This is definitely not a company that doesn’t want employees to speak out or find better ways to do things but it sure doesn’t look good (to me at least) for her to be asking for these (major) changes this early in training

      It seems to me almost that there could be a conflict averse culture when people speak out and where they bring in someone “external” to try to initiate those changes. (Which in my experience never works, but I digress…)

      If that’s the case (and I could be wrong) I’m afraid she’s been set up for failure.

      1. valentine*

        she has been hired by your mutual boss to change things up
        If so, she’s terrible at it, because she wants other people to waste time changing a clear label she could change herself, if it were really such a pain, and she would be causing chaos and confusion by changing the bow scheme x people do well.

    7. Colleen*

      This was so fun to read. Really. I have no suggestions, but I wanted to tell you this because it is obvious that you put a lot of work into it. Thank you.

    8. Not So NewReader*

      I think the overarching concepts are:

      a) This is how we do it and no, we will not be making changes on our own. Other Person/Department makes changes and they let us know what changes they want.

      b)Yes, you will find things around here that are mislabeled and so on. No, we will not ask another department to fix it. If you see something of concern, ask Immediate Boss. They will decide whether or not to move ahead on the concern. You must follow proper channels.

      This is a problem with not understanding the scope of the job and the limits of authorization.
      With both a and b you can offer examples of things that should be reported and will get changed.
      I would assume the best of intents until I found proof otherwise. I might consider a sit down meeting to go over these points and give examples.

      When I supervised I found common things that can and should be reported to the boss.
      Safety issues. Immediate dangers need to be reported right away.
      Injuries
      Illnesses that need immediate medical help
      Shortages of materials/equipment.
      Theft
      Unusual events such as earthquake, violent weather, unauthorized people, etc.
      I am sure I have forgotten something.

      Then there is a group of things particular to your arena and workplace.
      The llamas eating the bows.
      The fence got trampled by the buffalo next door.
      Sun fade on the glitter.
      Here you are narrowing down the range of what she is expected to actually keep an eye on.

      If you have this longer conversation and the problem continues then you may want to speak to your boss. The problem with independent gigs is that the one person is responsible for everything around them. If something does not work then it is up to that one person to bring in people to fix it. So this is a different mindset where she needs to report things to her boss and that is the end of her responsibility for some matters. She probably needs to hear this out loud. No, it’s not rude to say this. You are simply explaining how to handle things and what is expected of her.

    9. Skeeder Jones*

      This is absolutely the best post I’ve ever read about a llama company. You just, man, really went for it with your analogy. Thank you for entertaining me on this fine Friday evening

    10. identifying remarks removed*

      No advice to to add to other comments apart from the fact that I now want a bedazzled llama :0)

      1. Windchime*

        I want to be the person who bedazzled your llama! How fun does that sound? I wonder if OP’s company has openings.

  35. NotSureWhatToDo*

    I finally got a new job! I’m leaving my old one because of a badly handled sexual harassment case. What’s my moral obligation to make the sexual harasser known, and how do I do it if so? I’ve never talked to a reporter before and I don’t know how I’d go about contacting one and I’m also frightened of retaliation if it’s known I talked to the press. They fired the victim and hushed up the case. The sexual harasser wasn’t punished.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      If you make this public, you’ll certainly face retaliation, even if it’s “just” a PR war, in which they try to smear your reputation. But you may still want to do it anyway. I would be careful about which reporter you approach. Maybe find a news story about sexual harassment that you thought was reported on particularly well and thoughtfully, and approach the reporter who wrote that story?

      1. valentine*

        you’ll certainly face retaliation, even if it’s “just” a PR war
        First, consult a lawyer or lawyers, as you may require input from several specialties.

        And consider the impact on your (especially work) future.

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      You might also want to talk with some of the other harasser’s victims. It’s theoretically possible for someone who sexually harasses to do so to only one person, but in most cases it’s (disgustingly) a lifestyle and pattern. So chances are this person has harassed others (maybe even before you worked at that place). There can be power in solidarity. And also that could potentially give you some measure of anonymity, should this go public.

    3. WellRed*

      reporters are incredibly easy to contact. Look at your newspaper and pick a name from the business section. Send them an email, not from your regular account, explain the situation and ask if you’d have to be named. if you are uncomfortable with anything, don’t move forward. However, I’m not sure what you’d get out of this, and you have no moral obligation to make this known, but I applaud for you for considering it.

    4. Aggretsuko*

      I agree that you shouldn’t say anything because it will probably hurt you a lot worse than it will the harasser.

    5. Wulfwen*

      Please consider that if you “out” the harasser, you may also “out” the victim. The victim may not want to have all of this go public, especially by having it reported in a news source.

      1. Batgirl*

        I’m not saying don’t do it at all. You can tip a reporter off quite safely anonymously.

    6. Anono-me*

      I am glad you are be able to move on from a place that is been so horrible for you and others.

      I think you may find it helpful to first talk to someone who can educate you about the likly consequences both legal and practical for whatever actions you are considering. (If I were in your shoes I would probably consult an employment lawyer specializing in this area. ) An expert may also be able to suggest options in addition to or other than talking to the Press.

    7. Batgirl*

      I used to be contacted about sexual harrassment as a reporter and it’s a tough one to prove well enough to go to print.
      You’ll be asked to give your name and go on the record. I’m not sure how valuable that will be to the reporter unless you have direct evidence or witnessed the harrassment. So that risk could be for naught.
      The reporter will probably want to speak to the victim as their quotes would be more compelling and they may have more direct evidence. Also, you need to consider that this is mainly their story to tell; they should be the ones directing it.
      In your shoes I would be more inclined to either contact the victim offering support or reporting your workplace to the relevant authority for the illegal activity.

    8. AnonToday*

      As someone who was the victim in a somewhat badly handled harassment case, I truly appreciate you being willing to take this on. I think I agree that you may consider reaching out to the victim to see how they would like it handled – however, I also think you have every right to be outraged at this on your own behalf.

      I never did end up doing anything about what happened to me, but I did do a lot of research when I was thinking about it. So I wanted to point out some other options you can consider. If you’re in the US, there are government organizations at the municipal, state, and federal level that handle complaints like this (EEOC comes to mind). You should be able to call an officer, talk through the situation, and see if there’s enough evidence to move forward with an investigation. I think there is a cap on how long you can wait before reporting after you have knowledge of discrimination having happened – something like 6 months. I also think it might be good to contact activist organizations for advice – your local ACLU affiliate might be able to provide free advice or perhaps there is an organization specific to your industry.

      1. AnonTodayToo*

        Wanted to add that if you’re able to check back in at a later time without compromising your anonymity, I would be interested to hear what you decide to do and how it goes. I’m rooting for you.

    9. anonymouse for this*

      I applaud what you want to do to the harasser but please consider how this will affect the victim. Are you in touch with them – do you know what they want to do? Are they going to want to be involved in this either by choice or not if the reporter finds out their name and contacts them out of the blue.

  36. Hey There Friday*

    How do you tell your boss she sucks at managing your now working from home team? It’s been 2 weeks and everything seems disjointed. No one knows what anyone else is doing, we get haphazard emails where she shifts our entire focus to something else and she’s unresponsive on key things.

    To be fair, we are a foundation for a hospital system, so we are trying to track down PPE, hand sewn masks, donations and still trying to shift our largest event to virtual. We have a lot going on – but she’s got me feeling like I’m spinning and I’m not the only one. She was so opposed to us working from home in the first place, and now I’m wondering if it’s because she doesn’t have the first clue how to manage a remote team. How do I politely tell her this isn’t working for anyone on our team?

    1. Nonprofit DBA*

      I wish I knew how! My manager keeps insisting we can video call or email him at any time, but he’s completely unresponsive and threw a whole appeal into chaos last week after ignoring the entire email chain planning it. The hard part is it seems to be working fine for the half of us who want to be left alone to focus on pet projects but terribly for the half of us who want to get things done.

      1. Hey There Friday*

        OMG that’s pretty much where we are too. We have a whole chain of communications for our now virtual event and she hasn’t signed off on ANY of them, and we can’t get her to respond on it. I’m just waiting for these to go out and she’ll be like. “WHOA what is this?!?!”

        I also just got a call from a new co-worker who started today. I didn’t know this person was starting today. None of us did. #facepalm

    2. SomebodyElse*

      Can you try to take the lead on some of the things she’s not doing?

      “Boss, I’ve noticed there’s a been a little confusion on our daily priorities… Would it help if I posted a priority list of things we should all be working on?”

      “Boss, I’m a little confused about X… I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one. Would you mind if we started up a daily 15 min morning check in so you can tell us what you’d like to see us working on that day? I can set it up”

      Or whatever you are thinking would help.

      1. Amy Sly*

        Yeah, I’d go with this basic strategy.
        I might start by contacting your colleagues to get their perspective on what they think they’re supposed to be doing and what needs doing. Try to suss out what they need the boss to help them with without degenerating it into a backstabbing gripe session. Then, put together an email for your boss that provides a useful sketch of where all the projects are, what your coworkers think needs to be with each project*, which ones you think are supposed to be prioritized, and a list of action items that you and your coworkers need from the boss. Sure, this is something that your manager ought to be doing, but whether she’s just always been an incompetent manager and this crisis is revealing it, or she’s overwhelmed with her own situation, it needs doing by someone. Presenting it to her as a completed plan she can either agree to or add her corrections to allows her to put a lot less thought into it, and once she makes any necessary corrections, get it out to the rest of the team.

        *Present this as this is not you assigning work to your coworkers, but just collating their understanding of their own projects.

    3. Mazzy*

      I wouldn’t! I am a manager and very distracted at home and also don’t want to be the “I’m micromanaging because I can’t see you” type.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      It’s tough when people can’t see each other. You can’t see what she is going through either.

      Perhaps you can ask her how she wants you to proceed when she is too busy to give you answers on a specific questions.
      Or perhaps you can just email the request again.
      Or maybe you can switch to phone.

    5. SparkleJaffe*

      Very different situation/job, but my boss has been driving me CRAZY. She’s hard enough to deal with usually (I don’t know what she actually does but she’s always late on things and confuses processes and take over little things that should be my role, as some examples) and trying to decipher what she wants and who is responsible when I can’t just swing my chair around and be like, “What?!” has been really hard. The other day these emails were going around in circles so I just video chatted her to stop the nonsense. But it didn’t stop the nonsense. Oh no.

  37. Cobblestone*

    Can my employer determine whether I can work from home in a different city or not?

    I am currently 100% remote due to the pandemic, but normally in the office before this. I’ve been working from home in the same city where my office is. However, I am in a long distance relationship with my partner who works in a different city a few hours’ drive away. We’ve been making plans for me to drive down and spend the rest of my time there, until the work from home policy is lifted. (We’re both healthy, not at risk, there is no lockdown in either of our cities.) When I mentioned this to my boss, she said I would need approval to do this. My boss is not in the same city as me, either.

    I asked if there was a reason I would need to go into the office in the next few weeks, and was told no. Maybe I shouldn’t have mentioned it, as I don’t think they would ever know if I had left my office’s city or not. But is that being deceptive? I’m still waiting on permission, but would I need it in the first place?

    1. Jedi Squirrel*

      Is your state under a lock-down order? Because if they are, this is a bad move.

      If not, I don’t see what the issue work-wise is.

      But I still think this is a bad move nonetheless. This is what gets pandemics going and keeps them going. You are both healthy, but you could be carrying the virus. Also, everyone is at risk. To say you are not at risk is simply foolish. This kind of thinking is getting people killed.

      Don’t be selfish. Stay home.

      1. Cobblestone*

        I’m not in the U.S., but no, neither of our state equivalents are in lockdown.

        Of course, everyone is at risk, and I have been staying at home as much as possible – I meant not at a higher risk due to other factors.

      1. Bear Shark*

        Agreed, if it’s in a different state there can be potential tax implications for working from a different state. I know we have to handle the state tax set up if we have employees working from a new state we don’t already have employees in.

      2. Cobblestone*

        I’m not in the U.S., but we do live in different state equivalents. Although my tax form actually says I work in my partner’s state (I used to work in that state, got a recent transfer to my current state, form still says old state – whole other story!). But I didn’t consider that, so thanks!

        1. Bostonian*

          IANAL, but I doubt the tax liability is even applicable here since you’re not planning on working there permanently. Doesn’t seem much different from going to an out-of-state conference for a week and continuing to do work while there (or taking a vacation where you do some days of remote work), except in your case it will be a bit longer than a week or 2.

    4. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      Are the two cities in the same state? Having you working remotely for a while in a different state could potentially be problematic.

      1. Cobblestone*

        We are in different state equivalents (I’m not in the U.S.). But that’s interesting to consider, thanks! When I spoke to my boss, she implied it would be just verbal permission (or email at most) so I don’t think taxes come into play, but of course I’m not sure so I guess I’ll have to wait for more information. Thanks!

    5. Mad Harry Crewe*

      I would probably revisit it with your boss. “Hey, last time we talked about my joining Partner in City, you sounded unsure about it. I’ve been thinking and I would really like to do this. It won’t create problems for my work – I’ll still have reliable internet, I’ll be able to focus on work rather than worrying about my partner being so far away, and it’s not like I have to worry about the commute, eh? Right now, I’m planning to drive down on (date), but if there’s something I haven’t considered, I’m open to talking about it.”

  38. LQ*

    My job has blown up in the last week. My boss maybe quit maybe took grudge FMLA then maybe back then maybe not now acting like nothing is happening except taking away work and behaving entirely like a weird petty tyrant. And it wouldn’t matter except my job and my work is actually critical work right now. And I’m so damn angry and bitter myself and it’s a bit/lot of exhaustion and being overworked for a very long time and now being told that the work doesn’t matter and letting him get under my skin. I’m lying about when I’m working so he and his damn ego won’t get hurt that I’m working more than him because he refuses to let me have any help.

    And I’m desperately trying to protect my staff and I know I’m not doing enough. And I’m trying to not hurt anyone else. But I’m so damn angry and tired and I hate all of this.

    And no. I can’t just quit. And no I can’t just pretend like my job doesn’t matter. And no I can’t just work half as much.

    1. Sally Cat*

      I’m there with you. This experience has taught me that those I work for don’t care about the people who work for them. I’m trying to keep the operation going and take care of my staff while those above me haven’t even asked if everyone is doing okay.

      1. LQ*

        The worst is I would have said before this that my boss cared about people. Like in the past people who have had medical issues, lost a family member, just going through difficult times, he’s been incredibly kind and patient. He’s bent the rules to make sure that people have the space they need to take care of things (I mean as far as you can bend them in a place like this, but still been really flexible). But now it’s just all this giant ego trip and it makes me wonder if all the rest of it was too.

        I am watching a lot of the people who are my colleagues at the same level being incredibly kind and compassionate, but this ego contest above us is really hard and it’s a lot of attacks to absorb without any outlet.

  39. Book Pony*

    For anyone wanting updates on that job I applied to (this was the one with the 2hr interview and it getting reposted because HR shenanigans): Just got fingerprinted yesterday, so hopefully I’ll get a job offer soon.

    My current job finally let us work from home this week, and now we’re doing that indefinitely since yesterday. WFH has been great for my autism and anxiety. Nice, dark, quiet, free to stim, etc.

    Small question: how do y’all fight the boredom? There wasn’t much work to do when I was at the office and now that there’s no one spying on me, I can just stare out into space freely. I’d do online training, but the LinkedIn courses aren’t really relevant to our jobs, and they’re boring.

    1. Third or Nothing!*

      Listening to nonfiction audio books or podcasts really helps me. It can be hard for me to focus on something if I find it boring, and having something interesting to listen to helps me get the boring parts of my job done.

    2. Policy Wonk*

      I have been stocking up on books related to my job. Some management, some on the substance (e.g., history of llama grooming, best practices in llama breeding). When the work slows down I read a chapter or two.

  40. HR Lady*

    I am lucky to still have a job that if anything is even busier. I am fortunate I can work from home. I always knew I was in a job that was high-stress during bad times. I know this. I really do.

    But dear god, my work is currently trying to kill me. My boss is mega-stressed and keeps taking it out on me; my Very Occasional anxiety is so bad that I am currently having frequent crying jags and working on breathing deeply to deal with chest pains caused by impossible deadlines and the fact I just can’t really switch off because I have to support my team (i.e. those who I am the HR person for) and get us through this transition, and furloughing, and everything else. I’m doing yoga every morning and ensuring I go out on my government mandated one trip outdoors a day (I’m a keen jogger thank goodness) and all the stuff you’re meant to do and I know that One Day These Things Will Pass but dear god. This all exploded in the UK literally the week after we’d gone through the annual worst month of the business in terms of HR processes so there just hasn’t been any downtime since February.

    Not really a question, more a sort of anonymous cry on the internet. I know I’m not the only one!

    (Finally – please do look at my first line again, I acknowledge I am so so so lucky to be in a job that I can work from home.)

    (Also: it’s Easter next weekend and in the UK that means a 4 day weekend. Even though I think I’ll end up working a bit to get caught up I will be able to get offline from work for at least a couple of days. THANK GOODNESS.)

    1. El Camino*

      I just posted a similar vent below! I empathize fully, it’s so hard to balance because you want to be thankful that you have a job and that you can work from home…but also work is still go-go-go and you feel like you can’t catch your breath. I know so many of us must be feeling the same.

      1. HR Lady*

        It’s hard for everyone. I have very close family members who work for the NHS (UK health service) on the frontline so all things considered life could be a lot worse but ooooh it’s going to be a hell of a rocky few months for everyone going forward. I hope things improve for you soon!

    2. Third or Nothing!*

      You know what? You can acknowledge that things are hard and it sucks without having to caveat that other people have it worse. Your feelings and experiences are totally valid.

      Enjoy your break next week! I hope it gives you the reset/recharge you need before diving back in to the fray.

      Oh also I love running too and it’s the one thing that’s keeping me from losing my ever loving mind from being cooped up inside the house all day. My soul needs the fresh air and sunshine!

    3. My boss made me walk across coals for a promotion*

      I’m so sorry you’re going through that. I was laid off this month, but when I was working during tax season in previous years, I had many of the same feelings – stressed and high anxiety constant crying and an awful leadership. My coworkers that are remaining now are having to pick up the extra work so no doubt they’re burned too.

      No one here will make you feel terrible for being stressed out by a job – we’re nicer than that!

      I hope that the next weekend and the daily runs can help alleviate your anxiety and things get better.

  41. El Camino*

    How are you all handling wfh? This is my first time being fully remote (as I imagine a lot of us are) and I’ve been trying my best to follow conventional wisdom of keeping my normal wakeup times, or as close to it as I can, having a separate space for work, etc. But my struggle is with knowing when to shut down in the evening. Every night this week, I’ve gotten urgent last-minute requests from one senior exec who tends to be a night owl and it means I’ve been doing 12 hour days and I’m…exhausted. And of course, they were all URGENT NEED THIS ASAP so I couldn’t even put it off til the next morning.

    And because of those requests, I’m not getting through all my routine/ongoing work projects which mean I’ll most likely be working this weekend too. It speaks to the culture of my job, and I’ve been here about 8 months and it’s been pretty consistent that I’m working nights and weekends. And if we’re showing no signs of slowing down during the midst of a *global pandemic*, then it’s safe to assume this is what I can expect as my normal for…however long I’m here.

    The thought of doing this for several more months is so overwhelming to me. I’m already stressed out because of all the projects and deadlines I juggle, we’re down a team member due to their retirement and while we’re interviewing for someone to replace her, I don’t know how long that will take given everything that’s happening currently.

    It doesn’t help that my boss used to have my role before her promotion and her work style is very…martyr-like. People are used to her never saying no and that’s now being projected onto me, and there’s consistent pressure from the CEO down to be answering and checking emails at all hours – it’s very noticed if you don’t.

    I want to do well in this role but can’t help but feel the stress on top of stress about the current situation, not being able to see my family who are scattered all over the place, feeling bitter that my video calls with friends/family in the evening to check in get interrupted because someone needs something from me again and it “can’t wait”, etc. I know the burnout is coming for me like a freight train. I need to start standing up for myself and setting more firm boundaries but still feel like, since I haven’t been here a year yet, I don’t have the capital to do so. Plus, given the record unemployment in the US, I feel incredibly guilty for complaining about work when so many people are struggling.

    Any recommendations?

    Hope everyone’s doing well and feeling healthy.

    1. Mazzy*

      Ergonomics is an issue and I keep taking long breaks so I don’t hurt. Also I had a team meeting and don’t see any of the stuff getting done but don’t want to micromanage and piss people off “managing” more than I do in the office. And I started dressing up today because I’m bloated from eating so much and not noticing it. I look bad in my slim fit clothes but I need to go through this and force myself to eat alot less when WFH. It’s not easy.

      1. El Camino*

        Ugh I am SO bad about the snacking. I went to the store for the first time in 3+ weeks to restock and am trying so hard to ration all my good snacks but damn, sometimes I just need a Reeses…

        1. valentine*

          Wear clothes that fit, that you feel good (or at least better) in. Stop punishing yourself.

          Set an 8-hour schedule and stick to it. Maybe add them to your email signature. Include that anything that arrives after x:00, you’ll see/hear after x+9. Turn off devices or set do not disturb for work.

          Are you sure you have to be the one to do what senior exec says, when he says? Is he pressuring you or are you? Maybe he doesn’t expect you to be on call. No one you can hand off to? Is your manager okay with it? Make a list of the stuff you want to do and prospective deadlines. Add in what you’ve been told to do and how that shifted the deadlines. Send it to your manager if they’ll give good direction.

    2. Mad Harry Crewe*

      Do you have any kind of company Slack or other chat rooms, where you could say “Signing off for the night!” and then… do so?

      I was going to suggest talking to your boss until I got to the part where your boss is part of the problem. I still think you could try something on like “Hey, I’m finding that, more than ever, I really need to be able to disconnect from work right now. I’m planning to start signing off at (time) and turning my computer and phone off. I know Night Owl sometimes puts in requests very late, and of course I’ll handle those first thing in the morning. If you’d rather than I adjust my hours so that I start later and work into the evening, I’d also be open to that.* Can you help communicate this to [whoever needs to know, likely including Night Owl] so nobody’s surprised?”

      * Only if you’re open to shifting your hours, of course.

      Allison has several letters in the archives about carving out evenings or weekends from always-on type jobs, and I know she’s got some good scripts. Obviously you can’t say you’ll be going camping right now (sadly), but you could still say “I’m taking a Self-Care Weekend, I’m going to drink wine, watch romcoms, and not think about anything until Monday morning. My phone and computer will be off.” What are they going to do, come to your house?

      Best of luck, this is a really shitty environment to work in at the best of times, and right now sucks. I don’t know if it helps to know that not everywhere is like this, but truly – not everywhere is like this.

    3. SparkleJaffe*

      I was doing really well with it. Pre-COVID, even though my job rarely called for it, I would often find myself checking work emails or Teams on the weekend/out of hours. But now my office is in my back room, I don’t touch it. I get up and make myself go through the same morning routine (including hair and makeup), I get fully dressed (proper shoes, not slippers) and I try to avoid my bedroom and loungeroom during the day and then when it’s time to finish for the day, I close the door of the “office”, change my clothes, take off my makeup and go hang out in the living room. And work apps on my phone are not checked. I really have a mental break between work time and home time. It had been working well. Until Monday, when I change jobs and go into a team which expects 24/7 availability… so I guess we’ll see how good I am and how long I last with my processes then!!

  42. Grace*

    My department (well, half the company is involved in one way or another, but mostly my department) is working on a big super-important coronavirus-related data project that will hopefully be incredibly beneficial to companies in this country once it’s been sent around government bodies. There’s a scarily close deadline, but we’ve got a dozen temps on board (including former interns and furloughed family and friends) and all sorts of bonuses for contributions for everyone involved, and we’ll hopefully get everything neat and tidy by the time we’re done.

    It’s getting pretty tedious, but it’s good to know that I’m doing something to help – even though everyone who is staying indoors right now is helping just by virtue of staying the hell indoors (looking at you, woman in this morning’s post – not that we’re restarting that debate again here).

    On a lighter note, we’re doing a “Meet the pets” Zoom meeting soon, which is going to the best thing ever and a welcome break.

    1. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      Keep on keeping on — and thank you for helping in the fight against this virus!! Go get those bonuses!!

  43. I Didn’t Sign Up For This*

    If I wanted to spend my time writing test plans, I would have gone into QA or project management. Just sayin’.

    Upper management has decreed that if only the developers would test their code better, QA wouldn’t find so many bugs. So I’m writing a test plan for developers to use on my current project (I’m the lead dev). Once it’s finished, we’re going to have to meet up and re-estimate how long it will take us to finish our work, now that we have to do an additional layer of testing. In multiple web browsers.

    But, that’s the new project requirement, so we will comply with the new project requirement.

    1. Purt's Peas*

      Ugh. That both really stinks–test plans are hard, and not your job–but also…reasonable. In my opinion developers should run through a minimal round of testing, whether that’s unit tests or manual cross-browser tests. If QA is routinely receiving PRs that create regressions or blockers or don’t work in browsers you’re supposed to support…that is in fact a problem.

      Of course upper management has a talent for not putting this kind of thing in a reasonable way, and a talent for requiring way more than needs to be required. And creating test plans really sucks (that’s why I’m not in QA). So you do have my sympathy.

      1. I Didn’t Sign Up For This*

        Yeah, the thing is, that’s not what’s happening. I’ll grant the cross-browser styling issues are on the devs, but the minimal round of happy path testing plus unit tests on the back end code are already part of the standard process. We can’t merge code into the Master branch unless it compiles and passes all the unit tests (literally can’t – we’ve got our build server and code repository configured to enforce this).

        Aside from the cross-browser styling issues, most of what QA is finding are edge/corner cases, or mis-configured data, not broken systems or blockers. But if the devs do the testing instead, then apparently QA won’t need so much time for their testing, and we can release our code sooner after our code-complete date. Which will be later, because of the extra testing load that has been moved on to people who are not trained for it.

        1. Anonymouse QA*

          That does change the situation! The team I work with is working to ramp up unit testing and integration testing but for a long time those were minimal so it was QA (and still is in some cases) catching major breaking issues. We have Build Verification automation that will run automatically in a feature branch build but that is (obviously) just a bare minimum and might not directly interact with whatever new feature the dev is implementing.

          The QA team that I am on has been making improvements in the past few years to our turnaround time, largely by beefing up end to end automation (and apparently we’ve automated a lot of stuff that SHOULD be covered in unit or integration testing but because that was lacking all QA could do to make sure it was tested is to put it into our automation. When I first started 7 years ago we had NO automation at all–everything was manually tested. Our “code complete” manual test plans took weeks to fully complete. Now it takes a day and a half for the items that couldn’t be easily automated.

          What’s your ratio of Dev:QA? There isn’t one “ideal” but in my division my boss said ideal for us would be 3:1–we’re currently at 4.5:1 and QA has been begging to hire at least one more person for a year or more. We often get backed up. Something gets put on the back burner because a client finds an issue that needs to be fixed NOW so I have to put down the thing the dev has ready for me to test but isn’t going out until next release, so it just sits there on our board aging. (We’re in this messy hybrid of waterfall, kanban and CI/CD–our on prem server environments where most of our clients are have a quarterly release cycle but we’re also developing our cloud environments which are CI/CD.)

          1. I Didn’t Sign Up For This*

            We’re somewhere in the 3:1 or 4:1 range, depending on how you count the people whose jobs keep them mostly in the database. We’ve been refining our process over the past few years such that on any given project, one QA person will work on it from start to finish, with others jumping in as needed.

            Since I’ve been here, I’ve seen QA really improve their processes. Some of them mean a little more work for developers (for instance, making HTML elements have ids that are both unique and meaningful), but it’s been worth it in the long run since they’ve been able to automate a whole bunch of regression testing, which (in theory) frees them up to manually test new code, automate the tests for the new code, and do general exploratory testing.

            I like our QA team. They make us look good. I’d really like them to have the opportunity to do their job.

      2. Anonymouse QA*

        ” In my opinion developers should run through a minimal round of testing, whether that’s unit tests or manual cross-browser tests. If QA is routinely receiving PRs that create regressions or blockers or don’t work in browsers you’re supposed to support…that is in fact a problem.”

        This! We have a scrum Master who keeps asking QA how dev can help move tasks along when they are in the testing phase (QA is shorthanded) except the dev’s only just recently agreed to see if Build Verification automation will pass on their feature branch before turning it over to QA (its in the automated pipeline, it sends you a chat notification if it fails to build–I shouldn’t have to hound you to figure out why the deploy failed–its still in your hands!) so…you want to help? Take a look at the automation that automatically runs!

    2. PX*

      Sad laugh of agreement. I’m not a developer but I work closely with them and I’ve seen these kind of requests come down and they very often seem (and are!) a bit shortsighted.

      1. I Didn’t Sign Up For This*

        Yeah, apparently my boss pushed back on this and got nowhere. So I’m not going to push back. I’m just going to take the same thorough approach I take with the rest of my work. It is quite likely that my boss is counting on this…

  44. Another Sarah*

    Happy Friday all. Not related to COVID-19, but my old boss had an affair with one of my coworkers [he reported to her]. She was married and he was single. Her husband found out and there is drama around the divorce and their continued affair. She got an internal promotion before this so she doesn’t manage my coworker any more but I started job hunting because HR didn’t care that she was in a relationship with a subordinate and the internal promotion was not related to the affair. I wish COVID-19 was the only drama we were dealing with here.

  45. Americandyce*

    I developed a crush on a married colleague. It was only ever in my head, nothing ever happened or will ever happen, I wouldn’t do that to someone’s family, even if I thought the feelings went both ways. I have accepted a new role in a different team, in part to get away from him, and I am making myself move on and forget about it. But I guess I want someone to commiserate with and hear what other people did to get over their inappropriate and unavailable work crushes. This is actually the second time something like this has happened to me, so clearly I have some issues to work through!

    1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      Crushes happen, they’re natural reactions to the chemicals inside our brains.

      I hear people talk about looking for gross things they do that are a turnoff can help. Imagine them picking wedgies and flicking their boogies!

      1. SheLooksFamiliar*

        I second this! When you develop a crush on someone at work, you’re usually seeing a specific, possibly idealized version of that person. You find that you don’t just enjoy the carbonated hormones, you also think, ‘He’s not like everyone else…’ Except he is.

        I had a crush on a guy at work years ago, also a totally one-sided situation that could have happened because I was not in a good place with my now-ex. Americandyce, could that be part of the draw to this person?

        Anyway, my crush was smart and easy to work with, friendly, and he actually listened to me. He also didn’t leave wet bath towels on the floor, or complain if I was late getting home after work, or gripe about loading the dishwasher, or watch TV in his underwear, digging and scratching…well, not with me, he didn’t. I met his wife at an employee picnic, who was also a lovely person, and heard about some of Mr. Crush’s habits at home. Once I could see him as just another guy with the same behaviors and shortcomings as literally everyone else, my crush all but disappeared.

        I had moments here and there because Mr. Crush really was fun to be around at work, but I could stop thinking beyond that. If I found myself backsliding, I conjured up that mental image of Mr. Crush watching TV in his underwear. Problem solved.

        Americandyce, I hope this helps.

    2. Diahann Carroll*

      I too left both times I developed inappropriate feelings for a coworker, lol. Luckily, I was planning on leaving both places long before the crush feelings intensified, but still – it sucked.

      1. Americandyce*

        Yeah, I’ve left in a sideways move to a crappier team both times, but it seems like it was the only option before I hurt myself or did something really stupid

    3. My boss made me walk across coals for a promotion*

      Imagine them having skidmarks on their underwear

    4. My boss made me walk across coals for a promotion*

      I had a two second crush on someone I’m close with. But married so that was never ever on the table, I realized myself that it’d pass. What did help was actually being friendly with his wife who’s an awesome person and those feelings went away. I still think coworker is a cool person but I wouldn’t say its a crush.

      1. Americandyce*

        I have no reason to meet his wife, but I just need to keep reminding myself that she exists and she must be amazing and doesn’t deserve my crap. Thank you

    5. crushed*

      Oof. Been there. Lucky for me (or not), I can’t maintain a crush for very long because even in my rich fantasy life, my dreamboat turns out to have annoying traits or unappealing physical qualities that ultimately keep us apart. Fortunately, my imaginary lover Hrothgar always welcomes me back with open arms.

    6. Batgirl*

      I think the first main move is what you’ve already done: distancing yourself. The second is not unduly guilting over it. It can actually make you focus on it more. When it’s on your mind just acknowledge the thought as human, shrug, move on.
      As to you having issues, I really doubt it; people get crushes. If there’s a pattern to the type of interactions you were having like: challenging debates, shared interests, affectionate gestures of friendship or knowing a lot about each other then perhaps you can discover and control what the key to attractiveness is to you. But just as likely, what you find attractive is not as controllable. Sometimes you just catch it like a cold.

    7. Anonymosity*

      I can relate to this. It happened to me twice, too.

      I met an ex whom I ended up living with at work, when I was employed with a company that provided onsite services to his company. We started dating while working at the same location.

      At the beginning of our relationship, I met another employee who was quite handsome in a very different way from my ex. We hit it off really well. There was a definite attraction between us, but he was married and people were beginning to notice us chatting even though our conversations were completely innocuous. So he just stayed away from my area. Due to the risk of gossip, we could not even cool it and just be friends. :(

      If Hot Employee Guy had been single, I might have broken it off with my ex and started dating him. In hindsight, since we were far more compatible, it might have turned out better!

      It happened again later when the European company who manufactured certain equipment my ex’s workplace had purchased sent two techs from abroad to train people on its use. One of them was very cute and clearly liked me*, but again, married. Nothing happened there either, other than some very light flirting. He never made a move and neither did I.

      You have little control over who you like. But you can control what you do about it. Since both my workplace interests were married, I wouldn’t consider it. That helped keep it in check. It sounds like you’re handling it well, and yes, it will pass.

      *To be fair, I was quite hot myself at the time.

      1. Americandyce*

        Thank you. Interestingly, I don’t consider myself attractive or at least not as attractive as him, but his wife (from photos) is short like me and not a stick either so maybe it wasn’t completely ridiculous to think there might be something there on his side. But there wasn’t, it’s just his personality, he’s nice to everyone and I know there was nothing more to it.

    8. Amy Sly*

      I’m married. I tend to deal with work crushes through both distancing and substitution. That is, whenever my thoughts are getting relationship-inappropriate, I work to remind myself of how I could do those same things with my husband — which tends to make me more interested in doing things with my husband, which improves our relationship and weakens the crush at the same time.

      Don’t kick yourself too hard for it. Everyone has stray thoughts and randomly strong emotional reactions to other people. (Crushes and quickly-onset BEC feelings are just two sides of the same coin.) Focus on controlling your behavior and redirecting thoughts to avoid ruminating; there’s not much else you can do.

      1. Americandyce*

        There was a lot of that happening! I think letting myself fantasize made it worse, because I’d be disappointed when I got to work and what I’d imagined that morning didn’t happen.

    10. Alex*

      My sympathies–I’ve got a pretty intense work crush too!

      I’m….not really trying to get over it though. I try to just use it to inspire myself to be my best at work.

      And it worked, because I got a promotion and an award for excellence! (Never would have happened if I hadn’t been trying to impress my crush…)

      1. Americandyce*

        Well done!! I’m glad it turned into something good for you and it a better, career defining way. I’m not sure if it helped my work, but I certainly dropped some weight… whether that was crush stress or Coronavirus end of the world stress, who can say!

    11. Caroline Bowman*

      It’s actually very normal. You’re with work colleagues a lot, some of them, by law of averages, are bound to be attractive to you. I’m assuming that you are single and possibly would like to be in a good relationship (also, totally normal, nothing wrong with that). Someone who clearly is in a stable relationship, who is really nice and your type and also you spend quite a lot of time together… yes, a crush often can develop.

      If this keeps happening, that your crushes must necessarily go unrequieted, with no possibility of anything ever happening for whatever reason, then yes, maybe have a think about why unavailable is an attractor for you, but it’s bound to happen from time to time, just in the course of life!

      Kudos to you for drawing a firm line and getting out of the orbit, even though it must be really hard and sad sometimes. You’ve done the right thing.

  46. anon today*

    I’m a news reporter very near Shreveport. Our tiny town had it’s first COVID-19 death Wednesday. A local professor, and former co-worker of my Dad. If you had told me in February I’d be covering the story of our lifetime right now, I’d have said you’re nuts. My mental health is not great at the moment, but I’m in contact with my psychiatrist. It’s just so much bad news. I can’t imagine being a health care worker. I have a whole new level of respect.

    1. Jennifer Strange*

      I’m originally from Louisiana and my family still lives there (even nearer to New Orleans) and I’m definitely concerned. I’m grateful that they seem to be taking the stay at home directive seriously. Sending you good vibes!

    2. Atchafalaya*

      I grew up in Berwick, LA; moved to Lafayette, then to West Monroe. I’ve got friends and family there and I’m praying for my homeland. I’m so sorry for y’all’s loss. Here’s to better days, soon. ❤️

  47. AnotherAlison*

    I hope this is school/work related enough. Some major relief here that my son is going to graduate college this summer. Son had 3 classes to take this summer to finish his BA, and the pre-COVID plan was to do that. When the NAIA gave spring sport athletes back a year of eligibility, he wanted to go back to school for another full year. Even with his scholarships, that costs me $10k/yr out of pocket for room and board.

    He changed his mind and announced last night he will finish up by August 2020. This is esp. beneficial since my husband’s small biz income is affected by COVID. We’re fine, but we’re trying to conserve cash like everyone else.

    I had also asked in an earlier thread if schools were reimbursing housing, etc. I found out they are, so his meal plan money will get credited back.

    I donated some money for relief this earlier week, and I believe in karma. : )

    2. Pam*

      My university offers completion Grants to pay fees for students graduating in Summer. You might see if his does something similar.

  48. =(*

    With all the video chats we’ve been having, I find I’m really hating seeing myself on camera all the time and I’m really starting to hate the way I look.

    1. ThatGirl*

      Laptop cameras are generally not too flattering. You can usually hide viewing yourself, so that you don’t get hung up on it.

      1. JustaTech*

        Exactly. Normally we don’t spend all day staring into a mirror, so suddenly seeing our own faces all day long is fundamentally weird.

    2. Seven hobbits are highly effective, people*

      This may not be possible with your set-up, but I have my laptop back a bit further so I’m smaller in the frame. (I have it plugged into an external keyboard and an extra monitor, so I don’t need it close to my face to do actual work.) This means that I’m still on camera, but it feels like a more comfortable conversational distance of “the other side of my desk” rather than “right up in my face”, so it helps me.

      1. Amy Sly*

        Related to camera placement — try to get your camera at eye level or higher. It’s certainly harder with a laptop, but you’ll look better by not maximizing the view of your chin or having the camera pointed up your nose.

        An acquaintance noted that he didn’t expect to discover that most of his colleagues needed nose hair trimmers.

    4. Warm Weighty Wrists*

      Hard empathize! Do remember though that webcams are quite unflattering, so that’s not really how you look. It’s marginally helpful to me to remember that. :-)

    5. My boss made me walk across coals for a promotion*

      only cam girls look good on webcam and even that involves special equipment I assume.

      My favorite meme right now is a picture of Matthew Mccoughnahey joining a Zoom meeting as special guest speaker, and the caption says – this is how he looks. now imagine how the rest of us look in our calls. While most can agree he is a handsome man, he does not look very flattering in the zoom meeting.

      Or you can turn yourself in to a potato!

    6. Alianora*

      Agreeing with everyone else that webcams are notoriously unflattering, but also, your coworkers probably aren’t putting much thought into how you look. I’m certainly not judging anyone else.

      I have found it helpful (to calm my own anxieties about not looking good) to sit by a window, sit up straight, and use powder on my face to reduce shininess (oily skin here, and my camera really picks it up).

      1. Avasarala*

        Yes! Raise the camera closer to eye level, get better lighting (window is a good suggestion, natural light is kinder and more lighting is better than eerie laptop lighting from below). A little makeup if you can stand it at home, haha!

    7. Blue Eagle*

      Here’s the thing. Everyone (well almost everyone) hates the way they look. Not many people would want to spend hours looking at themselves in a mirror. When I see myself on camera I block out that portion of the screen with a post it so I can’t see myself. Other than that, I accept myself for how I look and that is that. Sending positive thoughts and energy to you!

    8. SparkleJaffe*

      I understand how you feel. Everyone else in my team looks normal and then I come in with 14 extra chins. I have no idea how we all have the same tablets but everyone else looks like a god and I look like a toad. It’s all about angles. I have started to rest my chin on my hand to try and cover my huge chin. One day I even wrapped a scarf all the way up!

  49. Anonymous Educator*

    Lots of layoff-related stories in the news, but there are two that stood out to me in particular—one was Bird laying off hundreds of employees by Zoom call that some employees couldn’t even join, and the other was Gravity Payments doing massive salary cuts to make sure no one gets laid off.

    These are tough times.

    2. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      Gravity Payments is doing paycuts?!

      But are they going down below their precious 75k level that they swear they pay absolutely everyone at very minimum?

      Knowing how much we pay them annually, I can’t help but roll my eyes at a credit card processing company feeling a pinch over this. Everyone is still using their cards. More so than usual probably because they’re waiting on checks. Bless their hearts.

      1. Performance eval*

        Well, yes, but they decided this as a company, with all 200 employees making the decision, not coming down from above.

        Research can be so enlightening.

        1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

          Yeah. I totally believe that they got all 200 people to jump on board with that. Don’t believe what you read in the media, it’s spin for a major corporation who is a blood sucker on small businesses. Merchant services are a leech on society.

          And CEOs taking zero is funny since they still get bonuses and payouts. Oh no, one less ivory back scratcher.

          1. Fikly*

            Since when has this been a soceity where you have to get 100% agreement to move forward on any decision?

          2. Detective Right-All-The-Time*

            You sound weirdly invested in Dan Price being a bad guy, or this being a bad thing for his employees.

            1. Anonymous Educator*

              He may, in fact, be a bad guy, but many CEOs get their bonuses and payouts while also taking no pay cuts themselves and also laying off employees. Were employees thrilled to have to take pay cuts to not be laid off? Probably not. But lots of people do not get a choice. The link I posted earlier hasn’t been approved yet, but if you search for “COVID, Bird Scooters, Layoffs, and Relationships”, you can read more about it.

              1. Detective Right-All-The-Time*

                I agree with you 100% – I don’t know if he’s an angel or not, people in general just kind of have a weird grudge against the guy that I don’t quite understand.

                I have many friends who have been given the option between being laid off with no guarantee that they’ll be rehired when this is all over but full UI benefits, or taking temporary reduction in hours/pay to try and get them over this hump with a job at the end. I am under no illusion that these are easy decisions to make, for employers or employees.

          3. WinStark*

            Someone has to process payments. A “leech on society” is a bit much.

            /in payment processing myself.

      2. Anonymous Educator*

        Yes, probably below the original 70K minimum wage they had before, but the CEO and COO are basically taking $0 salary at this point, too. They’ve still got a lot of revenue, but it seems their business has been cut in half recently.

    3. My boss made me walk across coals for a promotion*

      My previous company held a conference call to lay off remote staff. Some weren’t able to make it because it was outside of their normal working schedule so they never got the invite. A few days later, one of them came online and asked why they didn’t have access. 20 people, they could have had a personal phone call. Foul.

  50. To union or not to union?*

    Hey y’all, I just started a new job for state government. We have the option to join a union (I think it is for all state employees, including public universities.) But I am not sure if it’s the right option to do. I’ve been doing some reading and come across a lot of pros and cons–I read the Askamanager thread. I also hear a lot of anti-union stuff too (it’s like a mafia, you can’t fire anyone, it’s only benefiting old white men, etc.)

    I am nearly hounded by the union now because I said I might be interested, and they want to answer any questions I have. What would be some questions you’d want to find out about your union?

    I don’t think there are “union wages” but I do know the union is lobbying to get higher raises for state employees. It’s 1.5% of your monthly salary for dues. I don’t think there is retirement or health insurance through it either. I think it’s just an advocacy body from what I can tell?

    Any advice?

    1. Sara without an H*

      Public employee unions vary a lot in what they’ll do for members. I once belonged to one that mostly did salary negotiation, but was useless when it came to things like discrimination, sexual harassment, etc. Others are quite active on their members’ behalf.

      My suggestion would be to get as much information from them as you can, then talk with co-workers about their experiences as to whether it’s worthwhile. Can you try it for a year or so, then drop the membership if you don’t feel it’s helpful?

      1. Aggretsuko*

        That’s been my experience with mine. The salary raises are great, but they literally left me hanging on when someone was trying to get me fired. If I hadn’t known a shop steward personally, I would have been SOL.

        I cannot at all tell you if it’s worth it or not. I wasn’t allowed to choose, though.

    2. CheeryO*

      You could ask for a copy of the current contract and ask how long it typically takes to negotiate a new contract. You could also ask for a general track record of the union’s ability to negotiate raises and improve or maintain benefits.

      I’m sure this is very state and union-dependent, but my union has been pretty instrumental in keeping pay and benefits competitive with the private sector. You don’t have to be a dues-paying member to benefit from the union’s negotiations post-Janus decision, but most people in my union have remained members anyway.

      Just personally, it doesn’t feel right to me to benefit from the union’s existence and not contribute to it financially. That’s not to say that there aren’t drawbacks to the union environment – it’s hard to fire poor performers, and some of our dues go to an annual convention that is by all accounts just a fancy party for the local representatives, which, gross – but the positives outweigh the negatives for me, and I can easily afford the dues.

    3. YouwantmetodoWHAT?!*

      Being in our union has had more benefits than not. The union fees that my hubs pays is very low and comes back more, in medical & vacation pay, among other things.
      But not all unions are the same – Definitely do your research!

    4. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      When I worked in a union-covered position, anyone who opted not to join the union still had to pay a (non-association? I forget what they called it) fee. Basically, we were paying into the union for the perks they negotiated, but were not full members who were able to vote or required to strike if so voted. (I actually switched from union to non-union-associated, in that workplace, after the fourth time in a year that they called a vote to strike over the dress code. None of them passed, but they kept getting closer, and I didn’t care enough about the dress code to be willing to go on strike over it.) So might check and see if you have to pay either way, and figure that into your decision-making.

    5. LQ*

      There are likely union dues of some kind.

      Depends on the state, but a lot of times the management will follow the plan for all employees, regardless of if they join or not. So the salary, retirement, insurance (while the state pays for all of it) is based on the negotiations.

      What union does in a lot of these states is essentially an advocate in disputes with management. This is kind of an interesting problem. When it was union or fair share, unions would occasionally look at something and tell the person claiming whatever that they should shape up/knock it off/etc. Now that it’s union or nothing unions are basically all-in on fighting every single fight. Punch your boss in the face? The union will entirely back you and say you did nothing wrong. Harass a coworker who isn’t in the union? Union will back you entirely and say that you were bullied and that you grabbed your coworker’s genitals in self-defense.

      This can be really useful if you are in a real dispute/have a petty boss AND you have a good union rep in your area. (to be fair, one of the situations I listed above was pre-Janus and was just because that union guy was a jerk) They are decent at advocating for big changes on a broad scale or helping out on a small one if you have a petty boss and a good union rep.

      All that said. I still pay my union dues.

    6. Koala dreams*

      Ask them what the benefits of joining the union are, and if they do anything to combat discrimination. Ask who decides which policies they are advocating. Do they members vote, it is decided by leadership, do they have any policy documents you can read? Also, ask what happens if you want to leave the union. Do you have to stay a certain number of months until you can leave?

    7. Not So NewReader*

      I am not sure about elsewhere. Here in NY they take the money out of your check anyway. If you are not union, it goes into a special account.
      I worked in two union places. One place the union was a sham. It probably should have been investigated by authorities. The other place the union was pretty well supported internally, but externally it had gotten a huge smack down in court. This meant it was a lame duck type entity. Eventually it was absorbed into another union.

      The last union I was so impressed that I yawned. They were going to teach us to read. They sent us a flyer telling us all about that. My head hurt.

      Read their literature that they pass out. Go online look at their website and look at their reputation around the net. If you can get a copy of the union handbook that would be very informative also.

      Talk to your coworkers. Try not to be overheard talking union business. Or talk to them off the clock.
      There maybe something about talking union stuff on company time, so be aware.

      In The-Most-Toxic-Job-of-My-Life, all my coworkers said the same thing: The union is a sham. They all agreed. I did not join that union even though some of them did.

      In the second instance people could find good things about the union, not much, but some. Some of the people thought they were saying good things but content is important. Saying something like “the union helps us” is too vague to be informative. Other people were in love with the concept of unions but thought of how unions used to be and had not adjusted to current times. Then there were people who flat out would not join and people would would not work withOUT a union. So the second place was a mixed bag. I decided to try the union in the second place.

      We were a company of several hundred people. When it came time to vote less than 3 dozen people voted in a union vote. Less than 10% of the employees voted. You may find it helpful to find out how many are in the union and how many are active members, how many vote.

      Recognize peer pressure when you hear it. “No one will be your friend if you are not in the union!” Uh, no one was friends with anyone anyway, not sure what the point was there.

      Good to know: Union reps have to say things and say it a certain way. I have a horrible example, because it was the area my husband had a degree in he let me know what was going on. Union reps MUST advocate to join the new union, whether or not they think it is a good idea. So the rep advocated that we join this new union and he personally voted against it. His hands were tied. The new union was a nightmare. This is why it’s best to talk with your cohorts to see how things are playing out in real life. You have no idea when they are playing a role or when they actually mean something. Cohorts will be more inclined to give you the real scoop.

      I stayed in the union. It made my stomach churn. I took the dues (almost a day’s pay each month) as a tax deduction. That would have been taken out of my check anyway. Finally I left. It was too much. We got COLA raises because we made so little. I just kept saying, “what is the point here?”.

    8. Chaordic One*

      In my current job, I’ve seen the union act helpfully when employees have had problems with FMLA and maternity leave and also when a number of employees were sent home because of a power outage. (One of the managers refused to sign the time cards of the people who showed up, but only worked a short while and were then sent home.) Currently they’ve been advocating (ineffectively) for a shutdown because of the Corona-Virus situation, as well as for more sanitation equipment.

      There might well be some union members who are goof-offs who don’t deserve to still be in their current jobs and don’t deserve their union support, but it has been a positive for the members I know.

  51. CupcakeCounter*

    Well the governor just closed schools which means I am now working from home until summer since my son is too young to stay home alone (but old enough to be mostly self sufficient). I just started this job in January so I was starting to freak since my employer just implemented a 10% pay reduction and a few other measures to try to avoid permanent HC reductions but warned that those are the next step if this goes on too much longer and we cannot get additional healthcare sector business (as well as raw materials from our suppliers).
    Before I could even say anything, my boss called me and said he heard about the school and said he realized that meant I would be WFH indefinitely and he was fine with that. He also assured me that since my team is already short 2 people the chances of me losing my job are low. Obviously he can’t make any guarantees but his department head has identified other areas that can survive cuts first.

    Also, since people were commenting on JoAnn Fabrics the other day, my state’s AG just shut them down and threatened their business license if they reopened before the shelter in place order was lifted. Current reporting is that over 100 businesses have been reported to the AG and several letters have already gone out to cease business operations immediately as they are non-essential businesses. If I read it correctly, in addition there will be fines levied for violating the original order later this year.

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      The JoAnn in my town, and I guess my entire state, have decreed themselves “essential.” Just like liquor stores!

      1. CupcakeCounter*

        They did that here too but the Governor and Attorney General shut them down (I think yesterday)
        From what I understand, the thought process behind the liquor stores was that there could be a lot of alcoholics going into withdrawal clogging up the hospitals if those were closed.

        1. Parenthetically*

          Yep. DTs can kill you. Not what we need taking up healthcare resources when we’re in the midst of a major crisis.

        2. Ali G*

          Yeah you can’t deem yourself as essential! Here the liquor stores are open because it’s the only place where bars and restaurants (that are doing carry out and delivery only) can restock. But it works for us too ;)

          1. Aggretsuko*

            And also, Joann’s is sadly lying on the whole face mask thing, according to Buzzfeed.

            Like other businesses, should be online-only.

            1. Rusty Shackelford*

              Lying about which part?

              I do know that the free pattern they’re supplying isn’t sufficient – it only uses two layers of fabric. Our hospital won’t take masks made using the Joann’s pattern.

              1. nonegiven*

                Anyone know what is a good pattern and what kind of fabric to use? DH wants to sew some for us to wear when we need to go to the store.

      3. juliebulie*

        HOW DARE YOU TAKE MY YARN AWAY lol, jk
        I have plenty of yarn. I buy it, but then I never use it. Who knew I was stockpiling for a pandemic?
        I’d knit a mask, but I’m pretty sure it’d be miserable to breathe through.

        1. Mad Harry Crewe*

          The holes wouldn’t be small enough to do you any good. Use heavy t-shirt fabric.

  52. LGC*

    I read the big blue announcement at top.

    So, I’m working remotely, but due to a request from our customer (which is a state department), the team that normally reports to me is still working. (They cannot work remotely.) I’m trying to barnstorm ways to show my appreciation – I’m normally an evil donut bringer (to paraphrase Gretchen Rubin and Elizabeth Craft), but for very obvious reasons, this is not a great idea.

    Also, I’m a fairly low-level supervisor. (I also have several administrative duties, which is what I’m doing from home mostly.) So I don’t have that much sway in adjusting pay and such.

      1. LGC*

        Well…I could, but the thing is I want to avoid any communal situations! Like, normally I would order a bunch of pizzas for everyone.

        I could order individual sandwiches, I guess, but that would get really expensive really quickly.

        1. Third or Nothing!*

          Do you have Instacart available in your area? You could order individually wrapped treats from a local grocery store and have it delivered, assuming they can deliver to your office.

        2. Rusty Shackelford*

          Ah, okay, I pictured them all working together. What about packages of individually wrapped snacks? Big box stores are still delivering, so you could surprise them with a shipment of chips and Twinkies, with instructions to stagger their trips to the goodies!

        3. MsSolo*

          What about something pre-packaged, like boxes of chocolates or sweets, so they can collect them individually and eat at home (having washed their hands after opening the box)?

        4. LGC*

          Hm – I’ll look to see what individually packaged snacks I could get! I think I could order some sort of packaged treat for everyone.

          To clarify the setup, what we do is process files for a local government agency (which is still in operation, which means we’re still in operation, apparently). The setup is that employees are at least two desks (or roughly ten feet) apart from each other at all times. This is a lot easier now, but my last week in the office (two weeks ago), it was pretty tough. (I nearly lost composure multiple times and…kind of did once.)

        5. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

          I started to answer as if they were all remote too, glad I reread! Can you maybe order in a bunch of box lunches that they can come get one at a time and take to their wherever? I know Qdoba does those, if you wanted something other than the standard sandwich, with burritos.

          You could also, if DoorDash or something similar delivers to the site where they’re working, create a group order and send the link to all of them – you can set a per-person maximum, then they can each add their own order to the cart, and you can pay and have it delivered (you’d want to make sure someone on their end was prepared to bring back in the delivery). Red Robin, maybe, or some such?

        6. AvonLady Barksdale*

          Individual gift cards for takeout and set up a “virtual” lunch. As in, send everyone a gift certificate 10 bucks, tell them to get takeout or delivery on Wednesday and eat at their desks but log into an online meeting.

          I really wanted to suggest that my company do something like this because we’re all spread out, but they’ve halted all unnecessary spending.

  53. Myrin*

    Regarding my two part-time jobs, I got (comparatively, in light of this whole mess) good news on Wednesday:

    To recap: I work as a shelf stocker at a drugstore twice/three times a week and in the kitchen of a local inn on Sundays and holidays.

    There’s no problem with the stocking job – we are “systemrelevant” (“essential” in the common English term, I think?) and won’t close unless there’s a confirmed case with one of our employees (although they’re shortening hours and pay for all the fulltime people, my sister being one of them; it’s not like this chain belongs to one of the richest Germans or something).

    However, the inn, of course had to close. And I was really unsure and even a little desperate because I get about 350€ a month from my stocking job, which isn’t even my part of the rent let alone groceries. I don’t make a ton at the inn but it’s exactly as much as I need, usually, and while all three of my household members have enough savings and we’re financially savvy anyway we could’ve figured something out but man, the uncertainty.

    (The following is Very German but I’ll do my best to make it clear in English.) In any case, my bosses at the inn (a married couple) filed for short-time work (that’s the translation I found, IDK if it’s technically correct). That’s a procedure usually “reserved” for seasonal workers who literally can’t work during certain times because of outside circumstances (the weather, more often than not). The inn got approved and they told me on Wednesday and I’m just so, so relieved. It means I won’t work there for the foreseeable future but I’ll still get paid. 60% of my average pay, mind you, but that’s better than nothing (especially since I work very irregular hours there, with very little to do during the winter and A LOT to do in the summer, so the final sum is actually likely to be a bit more than what I’d usually make during this this time of year, but none of us are 100% sure of that yet). I almost started crying in relief when I went there to sign the relevant papers.

    Also, they’re doing delivery now, starting this weekend, and my family is going to get our lunch there on Sunday because we want to support each other regardless of the times.

    1. LGC*

      I appreciate that you used a compound word in English! (I’m in the United States, but yeah, the term we’ve used for “systemrelevant” is “essential”. And we usually just say “seasonal” in general for situations like you described near the end, where employees are furloughed during the off-season but usually rehired in season.)

      Anyway, I’m so glad that things worked out for you! Wishing you the best of luck, and that you get through everything all right.

      1. Myrin*

        Thanks a lot, friend!

        (And if you’re talking about “systemrelevant”, that’s just the German word for it! It just so happens to consist of two words which exist in the same form in English, too.)

        1. Third or Nothing!*

          There’s so much overlap in German and English! I love it. Also one thing I really appreciate about the German language is how literal everything is. Y’all just name things by describing them and sometimes the words get really long but if you know the vocabulary you can usually figure out what’s being communicated. I think that’s neat.

          1. Amy Sly*

            Have you ever heard of Anglish? The conceit is that it’s English if you take out all the words that aren’t Germanic and use the Old English derived terms instead. e.g. “I swear steadfastness to the flag of the Bonded Landhoods of America, and to the edfolkness for which it stands, one folk, under God, unsundersome, with freedom and righteousness for all.”

          2. Amy Sly*

            I don’t know … pretty sure I wouldn’t get that a “shield toad” is a turtle. :)

  54. Exhausted Frontline Worker*

    Alison, can I make a request for next Thursday’s COVID-19 open thread to be dedicated for anyone working on the frontlines (medical or not–literally anyone whose job makes it possible/easier for others to stay at home) and how they’ve been handling things? All I see on the news and social media are things like “8 tips for being productive when working from home!” or “EVERYONE STAY THE FFFF INSIDE NOW YOU SELFISH IDIOTS!!!1!1”

    This pandemic is hard on all of us in different ways, and I don’t want to minimize that–suffering is not a competition. I absolutely want anyone who can stay ay home right now to be doing so, and I know that comes with its own challenges. But I’ve been feeling really disconnected with friends and family lately who are at home, while I’m still going into to work and making hard decisions about how to help keep others safe with far too few resources, all while potentially putting my own health on the line. I could really use a space to connect with other frontline workers right now who aren’t my coworkers, even though my coworkers have been great, and I’ve had a hard time finding that.

    1. Amber Rose*

      Jedi fist bumps (the safest kind!) from someone else who is having a rough time while watching everything around me get steadily emptier while still trying to keep everything together and go to work every day to keep the doors open and keep people safe.

      We need a list of 8 Things to Do to Stay Sane While Sitting in a Creepily Empty Office and Possible Being Endangered.

      But that’s too long of a headline I guess.

      1. Seven hobbits are highly effective, people*

        Or a list of 8 Ways To Not Start Screaming At People Who Bring 2 Adults and 5 Kids Through Your Checkout Line.

        1. Parenthetically*

          Holy shit.

          Lots of stores in my city — even big-box ones like Home Depot and Costco — are implementing limits on this kind of stuff. One or two shoppers per cart, and a limit of X people in the store at a time.

          1. Amber Rose*

            Our grocery stores all have bouncers now. They stand outside and let people in in groups.

      2. Exhausted Frontline Worker*

        I would totally share that article on every social media platform! Even MySpace and Google+! My “office” is mainly my coworker’s car at the moment as our job has become super mobile, but I’m sure some of those tips would still apply ;)

        Jedi fist bump to you too. Hang in there.

    2. Ranon*

      Death Sex and Money did an episode this week with folks in situations similar to yours, if you have time for a podcast it might be worth a listen.

      1. Exhausted Frontline Worker*

        Ooooh thanks. I’ll give it a listen on my walk tonight! Things like that are really helpful right now.

    3. Third or Nothing!*

      Oh gosh I absolutely hate those posts about staying inside! So many of them mean straight up lockdown where you only leave your house to go get groceries or medicine. Sorry y’all, for the sake of my own mental health I have to go for a run outside every day or go for a drive. The last time I was trapped at home for an extended period of time I got sent to the hospital for an emergency psych eval by my midwife. Pretty sure that’s an even worse exposure risk than seeing the occasional other runner on the far side of the street. /endrant

      Good luck and godspeed. May all the germs and stupid people stay far far away from you.

      Oh as a side note, Mirna Valerio has been setting up threads where people in her Facebook running group can dedicate miles to a specific frontline worker who is also in the group. If you want I can dedicate some miles to you some time this week.. It’s not much but it’s all I can do…well besides self isolating which I’ve already been doing for 3 weeks now.

      1. My boss made me walk across coals for a promotion*

        From what I’ve been reading (and honestly advice here and from my Dr) walking/running outside isn’t forbidden. At least in NY where I am. I’m not sure about other states or countries. My friends who have back/front yards are

        My husband and I went to a pharmacy the other day (they weren’t delivering) and we saw people standing in small groups just chatting and hanging out. Normally its NBD but it left a bad taste for me. We saw lines outside of drugstores but some grocery stores aren’t adopting the social distance rule.

        1. Third or Nothing!*

          There has been a lot of discussion in some of my running groups and city-centered groups about how people need to stay the heck inside and not even leave the house at all unless they absolutely 100% HAVE to. I think they’re all scared since our area is one of the hot spots in the US right now. We have so much open space and deserted hiking trails though that I could spend an entire day outside and not see another soul.

          1. Exhausted Frontline Worker*

            It’s definitely okay to go on walks or runs or bike rides as long as you’re avoiding main roads and maintaining six feet from all people not in your household. Even though I’m out in the community a lot for work at least 3 days a week, I’m still trying to make sure I go outside every day for my own sanity.

            In my city, some of the hiking trails have been REALLY crowded when I’ve driven past during work, as well as parks and main roads, particularly ones with lots of restaurants. I want people to support the local economy, but too many people are congregating to wait outside for takeout and not at a good social distance! My city implemented stay at home orders this week, and police started breaking up groups of people who are congregating outside, but it’s not 100% effective. Outdoor exercise is important for mental health, but if people don’t take this more seriously, we’ll probably lose this freedom soon as well!

          2. Gumby*

            My county put a ‘you can’t drive more than 5 miles to exercise’ restriction in place. Nearby counties did not. Because of where I live every single hiking path with shade and changes in elevation is more than 5 miles from my house. I am miffed. Before this went into effect, I went to my favorite hiking path at 10 a.m. on a Tuesday and saw maybe 6 or so people in 2 hours. It was safer from a prevention standpoint than even the shortest trip to a grocery store. But no. I now get to walk on sidewalks where I pass 6 people or so every 5 minutes. Granted, people are being great about veering into the street or lawns to keep the 6 ft distance, but still seems counter-productive.

            To bring this back to work – I do work at an essential business but mostly at home because I can (some co-workers cannot because labs). Work is in a different county. Currently mulling over whether it would make sense to take a noon-time hike on the rare day when I drive to the office.

    4. juliebulie*

      Thank you so much for what you’re doing. When all the social distancing is over, you deserve a parade.

    5. dinoweeds*

      I feel you so hard on this. I manage a recreational dispensary in CO and I am really struggling to continue being the leading power for my staff because I am just as stressed out and scared as they are. I have had employees break down in front of me because they are so scared of exposure, but they need the income and have to keep risking themselves every day at work. I see so many posts about thanking your grocery and sanitation workers, etc – but those of us in liquor stores and dispensaries need an equal shout out.

      Like you said, this is hard on everyone in different ways and I certainly don’t want to diminish that – but I want to freaking yell and pull my hair out when my regulars insist on COMING IN TO MY STORE EVERY SINGLE DAY FOR A JOINT. Just buy enough at least for the week and stay home! Damn.

    6. CSR by Day*

      I think this is a good idea. Before I was sent home for safety-related leave, the last few days at work were hellacious. Many of my co-workers were working voluntary overtime. The customers were generally very polite, but I could tell they were more stressed and upset than usual. Sometimes I couldn’t help them, usually I’d transfer them to a different department, but the different department was completely shut down and there was no where to transfer them, so I told them they’d have to call back. They didn’t like that.

  55. Mimmy*

    Looking while temporarily unemployed

    I’m temporarily not working due to coronavirus and am collecting unemployment. I do expect to be back at my job once this is all over, but I am still itching to move on and have my eyes and ears peeled for new opportunities. Just want to make sure that it is okay to continue looking. I’d hate to blindside them in the (very minuscule) chance that I’ll land something before going back to my current job.

    1. Performance eval*

      It’s 100% ok! You never have any obligation not to look, regardless of whether you are currently working, or temporarily not working due to something like this. Looking does not mean you are obliged to take anything.

      If this wasn’t a crisis, and you happened to come across an opportunity that was better for whatever reason, it wouldn’t be wrong for you to take that opportunity. It’s not wrong to look out for your own long term interests – your company certainly isn’t going to do that for you, they look out for theirs (which is reasonable). No job is a marriage.

  56. Emma Woodhouse*

    My company recently announced promotions. I was promoted but a close work friend was not. She’s very upset and has been venting to me – and on occasion implying the promotion process was rigged and that I didn’t deserve to be promoted. I’m letting her vent and giving advice the best I can, but there is nothing else I can do and I’m tired of the venting. It appears her manager didn’t give a concrete reason why she wasn’t promoted. I’ve worked enough with her that I am 98% sure I know exactly why she wasn’t promoted but I’ve said nothing and will say nothing on this topic.

    I should have put a stop to it immediately but I thought it would be helpful for her to get it out of her system. Because I’ve allowed it, I am not sure how to stop it now. I’ve tried changing the subject but it’s not working. I’d like to avoid being blunt but I’m not sure there is a way around it. Any tips?

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      and on occasion implying the promotion process was rigged and that I didn’t deserve to be promoted.

      Er, I think that makes it okay to be blunt.

      “Look, I understand why you’re disappointed. But it upsets me when you suggest that I didn’t deserve my promotion. I think you need to find someone else to vent to.”

      1. YouwantmetodoWHAT?!*

        I ageee with Rusty, she’s being rude – and mean! Shut that down.
        Being a supportive friend/coworker does NOT mean taking abuse!

        1. valentine*

          Yep. You are way, way too kind. The bluntness would actually be a kindness as well, because maybe she will be able to hear herself. I mean, wow. Is this a one-sided friendship? Any reason you can’t be too busy? Even if you have a lot of downtime and this is over chat or something (assuming this is happening during work hours), fill the time with literally anything other than her rude, wild complaints.

      2. Diahann Carroll*

        Perfect script. If she doesn’t realize she’s doing it or what she’s insinuating, she’ll be thankful you pointed this out to her so she can stop doing it (assuming she is genuinely a friend and actually cares about your feelings). I know I tend to be very blunt and say things that sound callous to others, but I don’t mean them that way, and I feel grateful when people point out the optics of what I’ve said so that I don’t say something rude sounding to someone else who may not take it that well! Lol.

      3. tangerineRose*

        Would it also help to tell her why you think she didn’t get the promotion? I’m guessing maybe because she lacks tact and says whatever she feels like and/or doesn’t have much of a filter?

      4. Clisby*

        +100. Venting to a close friend because I think it wasn’t fair that I didn’t get a promotion is fine. Implying that my friend didn’t deserve her promotion is not.

    2. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      Cut her off: ‘Sorry, I’m dealing with my own s**t so I can’t take on any more right now, but I’d suggest you direct this to your manager?’

    3. Not So NewReader*

      I’d go with redirects. “I can’t fix this, I have no say. It be best to talk it over with the boss.” or “I am not sure how I can help you with this.” or “I can’t keep talking about this every day. I do feel sympathetic toward your situation, if it were reverse, I know I’d feel pretty lousy too.But if we both don’t focus on our work we could both end up without a job.”

      Matter of fact, I think that is what I would go toward- a theme of “let’s not get distracted so much that our work quality tanks.”

      I have seen people in this situation inch their way toward the door. I understand, even if it’s the correct decision for the company it still can be painful on the receiving end. She may be working her way out the door, please know this is NOT your fault and in the end there is not much you can do about it. It’s tough, though.

  57. Performance eval*

    I had my first performance eval at my current job. It also happened to be my company’s first round of performance evals after they revamped the whole system they were using before (well, really, they took nothing from the old process and made something entirely new, from what I understand).

    I absolutely loved pretty much everything about the way they handled it. I found it thoughtful, respectful, genuinely aimed at helping people grow (for example, in our self reflections, one question asked about what we didn’t achieve that we wanted to, and what prevented that from happening, as opposed to “what did you screw up?”)

    Our company has a small HR department, and I know who spearheaded the whole process of creating the new performance eval system. Would it be weird/inappropriate to send him an email/note saying how much I appreciate his hard work on this and how great I thought the end result was? For context, he has been in his role for less than a year, and I know this was a huge project for him.

    Also, I was just so happy to get confirmation that I am doing really well, but also have things to work on that are actionable! I am the type of person who would be unhappy doing just ok in a job but having job security (not judging if you are not this person, it’s just not satisfying to me) so I’m really thrilled that I got such positive feedback, but also really concrete useful feedback on things to work on.

    1. LPUK*

      I absolutely feel it would be appropriate to tell the person responsible what a good job he did. It’s so hard to put all the effort into improving a process people can often be cynical about, and i’m Certain he would be delighted to receive your positive feedback! Also credit to your LM for implementing it in a positive way!

    2. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      It’s definitely appropriate and would be helpful for both the individual and the company. If possible, list specifics of what you thought went well, especially if they’re not about how you got high scores (or whatever the equivalent is) and *are* about the process.

      Congratulations on a receiving confirmation you’re doing well at work!

  58. Amber Rose*

    It’s started. We’ve laid off three people. -_-

    My boss says I’m not on the layoffs list, but that we might all end up taking pay cuts as we’ve run out of work and government help doesn’t kick in until you can prove a 30% loss. I’m scared to death. It would be still more money to take a 20% cut than to be unemployed, so I’m planning on sticking it out, but I’m scared the company won’t survive.

    My stomach hurts. It hurts all the time. I’m gonna end up in the hospital anyway at this rate. How the heck are people… like, living. Right now. With all this stress and uncertainty.

    2. Third or Nothing!*

      I deal with it by running. Physical activity helps keep the dementors at bay.

      2. Third or Nothing!*

        Currently enjoying a nice bock from a local brewery. Unfortunately they don’t ship cans outside the local area or I’d recommend it.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      Please take something to coat your stomach. Routine care may be of some help.

      Does your boss think the company will tank?
      If I remember you are not in the US. Here in my state they are starting low interest loans for small businesses, with interest only to start. Do you think that there might be a loan or grant funding that you could point out to your boss?

  59. WorkingGirl*

    So, I feel very lucky right now: I’m in an industry that’s been hit pretty hard as a whole, but the niche I work in, is actually doing pretty well (well enough that I got a planned raise – which had been held off as we were waiting to see how things were going well before all this! – two weeks earlier than anticipated). And it’s been pretty busy (working remotely) and my boss is pleased with my work.

    That being said: oof, I really don’t want to stay in this job forever. I’ve been looking at job postings every now and then but there obviously aren’t a whole lot right now!

  60. Justme, The OG*

    I’m in my third week working from home and I’m finding that I want/need to nap during the day. It’s never more than 30 minutes and I’m making sure I’m working my 40 hours a week but it still feels strange.

    1. Mbarr*

      Oh man, yesterday was the first day I caved and laid down. I’m a weekend napper and have it down to a science:
      – Never more than 30 minutes
      – Never after 4PM
      But it’s getting rougher… Especially since I don’t have a lot to do right now and am mostly pretending to work.

      1. valentine*

        For both of you: Can you build a longer nap or a proper siesta into your day? Work 8-12 and 4-8? (Three-hour siesta with a comfy cushion for meals or wind-down/ramp-up.) Feeling guilty or fighting it may reduce its effect, leaving you worse off.

    2. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      I’m very much in favor of companies providing private spaces for their employees to take naps during the day. It would make us so much more productive…

    3. Recreational Moderation*

      Strong agreement with Tree Hugger. I’m a big fan of 20-minute naps; they’re amazingly re-energizing. Doesn’t even have to be horizontal—sometimes I just sit in my big chair or under a tree in the yard, set the timer, and close my eyes.
      Of course, if I want the chair then I have to factor in time to persuade the cat to relocate, but that’s do-able.

    4. MissDisplaced*

      I don’t understand why this is bad because you still should get a lunch break. So Nap at lunch.

      I keep my regular 8-5 hours and take lunch from noon to one. If you need a wee nap, take one.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      I had one job where every. single. day. I needed a nap at 1 pm. omg, I couldn’t stand it. I think a half hour lunch is too short and unhealthy. I really do.

  61. Lucette Kensack*

    On Monday we learned that my division would have immediate furloughs and reduced hours. Bad news, of course, but we’re figuring it out. But later this week we learned that it is only our division. I’m surprised at how crappy it feels — turns out we’re not all in this together.

  62. Mid*

    How do I keep working when I don’t care?

    I like my job a lot, but I’m on week 3 of quarantine and it’s killing me. I’m exercising, taking my meds, talking to friends and family daily, and being as healthy as possible, but I live alone in a small apartment and it’s really wearing me down. I have ADD and being trapped in this tiny box day after day after day is just…painful now. I was already struggling to keep my depression in check, and it’s just hard right now. Exacerbated by the fact we’re having a lot of snow so I can’t run outside like I normally do.

    And I know that I’m lucky because I still have a job and pay and all these other things, and I feel terrible that I’m struggling so much while a lot people have it worse, etc.

    I’m seeing a therapist and doing my best. But I’m working so incredibly slow. Sometimes I realize that I’ve been sitting and staring at my screen for three hours without doing any actual work.

    Honestly, I’m pretty sure that this isn’t something anyone here can help with. I know I have depression and it’s being treated and the weird circumstances are making everything worse and I just need to ride it out. Somehow. I think I’m mostly looking for sympathy I guess. I tried to talk to my parents about it and they don’t really understand—especially since they live in a more rural area and my dad already WFH and my mom is essential so nothing has really changed for them. I’ve told my boss I’m struggling too, but this is going on almost three straight months of struggling and I’m worried that patience is going to run out soon. I was getting better before quarantine but being shut in my apartment for almost a month has completely killed any motivation and energy I had.

    1. Aggretsuko*

      You have my sympathy, at least, as I am in a similar situation. I am trying to not let on to my job how much distress I am in (at least I am able to actually do work, but I have frequent crying jags and am sick of all of the meetings) because they won’t have any sympathy and will penalize me. But there is literally nothing anyone else can do for me, so what’s the point?

      1. Mid*

        Yup. I get it.

        We got this—we will both make it through. One day at a time. If a day is too much, take it one hour at a time. But we will make it through this.

    2. Koala dreams*

      I have a lot of sympathy for you. It’s hard being isolated at home. Youtube exercise videos are somehow a poor substitution for a walk outside or a gym class. My mental health issues are also getting worse during this time, even though I don’t have the same issues as you have of course.

      Illness doesn’t care about if you have a job or if other people have it worse. Take care, and be kind to yourself. Do you have any sick leave you can take?

      1. Mid*

        That’s a good idea. I’ll look into taking some sick time. Though it seems like my coworker might have Covid so it might not be super possible to take sick leave right now unless I 1,000% must.

        1. Koala dreams*

          Yeah, I understand that. Right now people need their sick leave for covid illness. It’s a hard time.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      How’s your vitamin D doing?

      My doc said 20 minutes of pure sun every day (or as close to every day as possible). It sounds like you might not be getting any real sunlight?

      1. Mid*

        Ooh that’s a good point. I tend towards low levels naturally. I’ll try and get some supplements going for a bit to see if it helps. It can’t really hurt regardless.

  63. 90 WPM*

    Could I get some help in how I could describe my ex-job on my resume? I worked for a finance company’s operations department which sounds fancy but my job pretty much revolved around data entry. Enter data from clients’ document into our database, make sure the data matched, update old data, contacted clients about any missing documents/data, etc. Even though I was pretty much a data-entering monkey, I feel that I learned a lot about patience, keeping an eye on detail (any mistake = possible 5 digit profit loss), and multitasking. Yet I’m having a hard time putting this into my resume without making it read as if I didn’t really do much, if that makes sense? I’ve always had a hard time with writing resume bullet points so I’d really appreciate any help :)

    1. Long Time Lurker*

      Did they/do they give you any statistics about what you did. Like:
      Entered x pieces of data per hour/day/week/month with low y% error rate. Resolved customer issues within x hours/z days. Handled # of customers with fewer than # of issues/complaints per time period?

    2. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      Some ideas:
      -Managed client data in database: Entered new data, updated records, and performed QA/QC on existing data. High accuracy of data entered annually prevented $9,000 in losses.
      -Communicated with clients to ensure client files were complete, key to (something about why this was important)

      Focus on the impacts of what you did when you think about how to frame what you did, as @Long Time Lurker suggests.

    3. CSR by Day*

      Maybe you could stick in the word, “compliance” in there somewhere. Like:
      Ran compliance checks.
      Verified that client data complied with financial standards.

  64. ainnnymouse*

    I’m having trouble at my job. First there were a lot of red flags. The place pretty much hired me on the spot and kept saying that the new manager was a big selling point. I really didn’t want it. But my family convinced me to take this opportunity since I hadn’t had a job offer in over a year and needed the money.
    I keep getting in trouble there. I got in trouble for not showing up to a shift nobody told me to show up to. The next day I got a very angry phone call from someone in authority yelling at me for not showing up to work.
    I get told by my manager Fergus that I talked back to a manager, Teresa. If Teresa had a problem with me, she never told me that to my face. Fergus just happened to spring this on me right before I’m ready to leave. What happened with Teresa was that I asked a question because my coworkers messed up and put something in the wrong place. I asked if Teresa had put in the order but apparently that is “talking back”.
    This place has a lot of managers in relation to crew members. All these managers are jockeying for promotions and such. They seem like they are on a power trip and very cliquish. I’m pretty much getting the minimum amount of hours working there which is 4 a week. I used to get 5 but because I’m a “troublemaker” they cut it down to 4. We were told at orientation that reduced hours is a form of punishment.
    I’d quit right now but it’s hard to find work due to the virus. I was looking for another job right before it hit and closed everything down. I mean I know they are subtly or not so subtly trying to get me so frustrated I’ll quit.

    1. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      Not sure how much advice I have to offer. Some thoughts:
      -Recognize that this is a toxic workplace and be conscious about NOT incorporating these work habits into your life.
      -See this job as a stepping stone (i.e. it’s easier to find a new job when you’re employed)
      -Keep applying for other jobs
      -Note what sets people off (like your example with Teresa) and try to modify your behavior to avoid it; the goal is to survive this job long enough to get one that’s less toxic. See the first point about not incorporating this into your sense of normal.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Are you working 4 hours or 4 days?
      If it’s 4 hours, then why not consider just quitting?

      2. That Girl from Quinn's House*

        Yeah, if it’s 4 hours a week, just apply somewhere else and start picking up hours there. Then once you’re on their schedule, stop going to this job.

        Some grocery stores which are hiring like crazy right now are union, too.

    3. smh RN*

      If you want to stay there for now and don’t want to burn any bridges may I recommend “malicious politeness”? Basically always be the polite one, helpful with any requests they make. If they chew you out for something ridiculous go with “I’m sorry you (thought I was aware I had shift yesterday, were upset by my question etc)” ask how you can help them going forward to avoid this happening again. Use the phrase “so what I’m hearing” and “just to clarify”Thank them for their patience, even if they aren’t patient (it encourages people to try to be). BUT and this is key, you’re doing this all so you look like the reasonable one at all times. When they yell at you, you sit back and enjoy how unhinged it’s making them look. Consider it a game you win by not letting them break your composure. maintain your dignity at all times. I’ve used this in past with difficult coworkers and it drives them CRAZY. They want to freak out at you, but doing so only gets them calm polite responses and makes them look unreasonable. It can feel galling at the time but remember your goal- to be the nice, helpful, reasonable, calm one. Then they look ridiculous. It’s kind of like pretending your an anthropologist studying this strange new culture. Gives you some detachment. Because ultimately this a reflection on them as people, not on you.

  65. Jedi Squirrel*

    Just venting:

    WFH kind of sucks. But that’s because my work sucks in general. Unfortunately, I am the one employee who always has too much on their plate, and while most of my coworkers are at home checking their email twice a day, I am still working 8-9 hours a day.

    I was ready to move on a year ago, but decided to stick it out another year in case a recession hit. Now I really want out, and we have the current crisis. Still gonna work on my resume and put it out there. Other people are getting jobs. I know I can, too. I’m not too sure about the optics of quitting during this crisis, but I don’t quite care at this point.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      Consolation perhaps? If you read along here you will see other people moving to new jobs. I would not worry about quitting right now. You have to take care of you first.

  66. Wing Leader*

    I’m coming here to rant about having to watch soap operas all week at work.

    I work in an office, and we are not working from home (my company has pretty much dug its heels in and insisted that we’re not closing or working from home). But what they did do is change where we eat lunch. Instead of the kitchen, which is kind of small, we now eat in our media conference room. It’s used for presentations and stuff, so there’s a TV and other electronic equipment in there.

    As such, my boss has now decided that she can use lunch time as her personal time to watch TV. So, every single day for the past two weeks, she has come in with her lunch, flipped on the TV, and sat down to watch while the rest of just try to eat and stare at our phones. She’s mostly been putting on soap operas, though she sometimes puts on the news and yesterday she put on some celebrity gossip show (I don’t know what it was).

    I absolutely hate it because my lunch hour used to be my most relaxing time of the day. I would normally eat and read a book. Now, it’s just annoying. I can’t go anywhere else to eat because of rules about where we can be. No one has asked her to stop because she’s the department head and I don’t think anyone feels like they can. Ugh. I know this is a very small grievance compared to other things people are dealing with, but it’s driving me nuts all the same. If I can’t work from home, I AT LEAST want my peaceful lunch hour back.

        1. valentine*

          Ask for an alternative quiet room. Letting one (you!) or two people use the kitchen at a time would help you disperse. Do you all have to have lunch at the same time?

          All the soaps closed down.

    2. Rusty Shackelford*

      That sounds awful. Can you bring headphones and at least listen to soothing ocean sounds? Can you turn on the TV before she gets there, and put it on something less annoying?

      1. Wing Leader*

        I did put my headphones in yesterday, but I could still hear the TV because she has it on so loud.

        1. Rusty Shackelford*

          Do you think she’d accept a polite “do you think you could turn that down a little bit, I can still hear it through my headphones?”

    3. Koala dreams*

      Can you go together with some coworkers and ask her as a group? Can you come up with an alternative channel that would be more acceptable, such as nature documentaries?

    4. Sleepless*

      I feel you! So annoying. I worked at a tiny family-run company with all of the usual family-company problems. We were not allowed to leave for lunch. Everybody ate together in the break room, and the extended family of bosses turned on the TV every day. The local news and then whatever trash TV was on in the next slot. Every single work day, in a tiny break room, watching TV with this family. Who didn’t hesitate to express their highly conservative opinions at every story on the news (fortunately, it was the 90s when at least the news wasn’t quite as polarizing as it is now). At every job interview I’ve had since then, I’ve politely asked about the setup for lunch.

    5. Retail not Retail*

      I remember there was some annoying show that would be on in grocery store breakroom and I’d try to arrange my schedule best I could so I wouldn’t be in there. But now I can’t recall!

      Our lunches haven’t changed and since no one can come to our park and we have a park full of pokestops, I eat and charge my phone, and then get to walking and taking pictures.

  67. Lily G.*

    I have a kind of meta question about FFCRA/CARES. Does anyone know the rationale behind excluding companies with greater than 500 employees, other than they have better lobbyists? It seems not only absurd but downright criminal to me.

    1. Bear Shark*

      Supposedly larger companies are expected to have the resources to be able to provide benefits to employees without needing the government assistance but really it comes down they have better lobbyists.

    2. My boss made me walk across coals for a promotion*

      I feel like bigger companies have the resources to take care of employees. And big companies get govt bailouts all the time.

  68. A terrible manager*

    How do you manage people during WFH who have no initiative?

    More info: normally our jobs are not wfh but thanks to the pandemic we’ve all been reassigned. My industry has been hit hard and we’re lucky to not be laid off. Ive been given extra tasks to just figure out how to bring in revenue and Im getting emails from the people I manage like “nothing happens when I click this button”….. okay? What troubleshooting have you done? “None. What troubleshooting should I do?”
    What can I do to get them not to email me over these kinds of things? We’ve already talked about how I don’t need to know their every move and that I’m not concerned about productivity. It’s literally that they aren’t trying to solve any problems themselves.
    I will admit that I was fully burnt out before this whole thing started and it has not gotten better. I’ve also never had to manage wfh before and it’s clearly a struggle. My boss is literally emailing me asking where we can find money to pay people and I just don’t have bandwith to explain this stuff.

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      Can you have a conversation with them about it? To some extent, it may just be they need a kick in the rear to show some initiative and troubleshoot on their own. But some of this may be coming from anxiety or stress from the whole situation.

    2. just a random teacher*

      You might try making it clear what you expect them to do before asking you for help. There’s a lot of this in teaching – we get students who will sit there and “not know what to do” on an assignment. I generally tell them I expect them to have checked their notes and looked at the relevant section of the textbook before asking me, and they should be showing me the closest relevant thing they can find from either their notes or the textbook while they’re asking. While not completely similar, you may be able to set up similar expectations about what they should have tried first.

      A lot of it comes down to is to make it easier and faster for them to try things rather than getting help from you. Have conversations like this:
      Them: “Nothing happens when I click the button”
      You: “Ok, what have you tried so far to fix it?”
      Them: “Nothing.”
      You: “Ok, please come up with a list of three different things you can try on your own, and let me know whether or not any of them worked so we can add any working strategies for this to the group troubleshooting list. If none of them work we can try to troubleshoot further together.” (This basically makes them go back and do the step they skipped before getting help from you.)

    3. Jules the 3rd*

      Can you delegate? Is there anyone on the team who’s pretty tech savvy, who’d be willing to take on the tech support?

    4. Lana Kane*

      Hi, I manage 13 remote workers. I feel your pain.

      Do yo have a team lead who can take these questions? If so, make it Very Clear what they Will and Will Not be handling. Give your lead the authority to tell staff to use their resources, as well.

      If not, I’d suggest a conference call (we call them huddles) to discuss this issue. Set up an appointment for everyone to call in to catch up on how WFH is going and address issues. (It’s a good thing to do that anyway, even if you’re slammed). Let people know that the expectation is that they use their resources prior to reaching out. Make this an agenda item. If you’ve already has a conversation about their current challenges, it’s a good segue into why they need to not reach out for every question, because everyone is slammed. (Do make sure those resources exist).

      Then follow up with an email to recap what was covered in the huddle.

      This works on two fronts: talking to each other can make information easier to digest and retain, rather than a bunch of emails. But putting it in writing serves as a way for you to bounce things back if someone “forgets” and reaches out to you.

  69. Don't Want to Be Identifiable for This One*

    Okay, I messed up. Months ago, I started working on a new kind of project that requires a new skill set. The material I was given to work on was way too complicated for a beginner but I did my best. (There was and is nobody to check my work.)

    Now, I have a lot more experience at this kind of project and am one of two people at our company with this skill set, and yesterday I discovered a rather medium-to-major mistake I made back in late 2019. A client comment tipped me off that I should go back and look. I let my project manager know the moment I realized there was a problem and that I will need time to make it good. He doesn’t seem to be mad and says we’ll get it worked out.

    Today, I have touch-base meeting with my supervisor. Do I raise this issue if he doesn’t?

    1. Long Time Lurker*

      I would put together a plan on how to fix the problem and just mention the first or first couple of steps you plan to go through whether he brings it up or not. Have the plan in case he asks what you think needs to happen, mention the plan in case he doesn’t to make sure you are on the same page.

      1. Don't Want to Be Identifiable for This One*

        Thank you! The plan is ready and includes training the next person so they don’t get overwhelmed.

      2. Not So NewReader*

        Excellent advice. Yes, OP, just drag this out into the light of day and be shed of it. It will probably go okay for you.

    2. Mockingjay*

      I view things like this as “if only I knew then, what I know now.” Lessons Learned! I think it happens to all of us.

      I’m three and half years into a project. Looking back at the first 18 months, I wonder what the heck were we thinking when we decided to do Y (which turned out to be massively wrong) instead of X. But the decisions we made were based on early, incomplete research, no training on the new widget, and design approvals by overworked senior managers. We’ve course-corrected, fought for more funding and staff, held two classes, and are making progress.

      Just yesterday I found an old email in which I heartily endorsed Solution Y. *smacks forehead*

  70. Performance review and merit increase*

    We had our performance appraisals a few months ago and the merit increases are being discussed this week with the actual paycheck increase happening next week.

    I had a good review and a small increase. But with so many people getting laid off in my company and in the US in general I feel… guilty? Weird about it? I’m worried that I’m getting paid too much now and will be an easy target for the next round of layoffs to hit my department. We haven’t had one in a year or so but we have quite a bit of attrition in general due to losing and gaining clients. In the past they’ve happened regularly yearly. We are also getting bought out by a much much much larger company.

    I think my question is, do you ever feel like you’re undeserving of your salary? (not imposter syndrome – I’ve been at my job for 5 years, the company for 15. Have received positive comments from various teams). But more like I can’t believe $## is what they pay people to do my job?

    1. Dasein9*

      Yes, because I went from an industry of very high respect and expertise but low pay to an entry-level job in a different industry. Current job is unchallenging, but pays just as well and leaves me with enough energy for a second job as well.

  71. NerdyKris*

    I need to vent on behalf of IT guys everywhere. Can everyone on the general internet stop remarking how easy working from home is and how it proves this should be the norm going forward? We’ve been busting our butts just to get this working at all, and there’s still so many issues most people aren’t aware of.
    -Our old VPN would not have survived this load. Not every company has a VPN network designed to handle the entire company at once.
    -We just sent tens of thousands of dollars in equipment home with users that we might never get back if they quit or are fired. A person with company equipment at home is that much more complicated when separating, even by choice.
    -We can’t control your home wifi. Our office has a much different Service Level Agreement with Comcast than your house, and we can control everything on the network. Not so when your nephew set up the router to throttle certain applications.
    -If you’re not on the VPN, you might not get critical updates. Especially if you’re only connecting for a few minutes at a time.
    -Security: We have no idea who is in your home accessing your laptop. It might be you. It might be your kid. It might be your kid’s friend who has nefarious intentions. It’s why temps in finance aren’t allowed to take their laptops home normally at my company.
    -I can’t access your computer the way I can at the office. I can’t do upgrades while you get a cup of coffee. I can’t use our network to transfer data. I have to walk you through setting up your home office over the phone.

    Just please, give your friendly neighborhood IT guys a social distance air high five, it’s a miracle most companies moved to work from home as well as they did, and we just make it look simple.

    2. Anonymous Educator*

      -I can’t access your computer the way I can at the office. I can’t do upgrades while you get a cup of coffee. I can’t use our network to transfer data. I have to walk you through setting up your home office over the phone.

      I’d also add to this that if anything goes wrong with your laptop that requires a factory reset or some kind of booting into recovery mode, that becomes a lot more difficult to support remotely.

    3. Nita*

      Thank you for your hard work. If it wasn’t for IT, we’d have no economy left, and we’d have a lot more people putting themselves in harm’s way because they can’t work from home.

    6. Mazzy*

      Can everyone on the general internet stop remarking how easy working from home is and how it proves this should be the norm going forward?

      Yes this. These comments boggle my mind. So much stuff is on hold because things are impractical to do from home because we’re cut off from random systems and they’re trying to figure out how we can access some stuff remotely. One person got access to everything by having a remote computer, but then it went to sleep and someone who lived near that site had to get their password and turn it back on. And no one is overhearing what other people are asking or doing to know if problems are going unaddressed or we’re duplicating efforts.

    7. Nicki Name*

      This is an excellent time to mention Sysadmin Day, which is July 31 this year! If your company likes to do special events and has an IT department, make a suggestion now that the IT people should be honored in some way.

      https://sysadminday.com/

    8. Ali G*

      The IT team at my org has really been the sole reason our WFH transition went so well. They are rockstars and we tell them every chance we get!

    9. My boss made me walk across coals for a promotion*

      At my last company, they made everyone sign a release saying if they keep the equipment, the amount will be deducted from the final paycheck.

    11. LQ*

      Agreed! The security piece is absolutely stressing me out beyond reason. I feel like I’ve become the token BUT WHAT ABOUT SECURITY person, which is not my role but apparently I’m the one who cares right now about it?

      When you just decide to not care about security, about ergonomics, about equipment and resources and privacy and support and the work getting done, it’s totally easy to WFH. But if you care about any one of those things and try to do it in a structured manner it is much harder. So yeah. I’m not feeling great about it right now.

      And yes, if everyone was perfect in every way then it would be fine, but turns out most of us are human. (Weirdly people keep holding me up as like “why we should wfh forever” model employee and I’m like NOOOO I want space away from the office to not work.)

    12. Jules the First*

      I have been singing our IT department’s praises every time I speak to higher ups…many centuries ago I used to do network admin and business continuity planning so I know exactly how hard they’ve all been working for the month of March and I am in awe of their achievement: seven offices around the globe with 1,500 staff taken 100% remote overnight with nary a hiccup, after just ten days of prep work AND the decision to go remote happened suddenly and after-hours. I am lobbying for a “We Love Our IT” parade once this is all over.

    13. Robin Ellacott*

      Hear, hear! I have been watching a team member here set up a small number of staff to work from home and the mix of real issues and “oh I guess I didn’t read the 5-step instructions you sent” issues (all presented as this doesn’t work” of course) is insane. Huge props to the IT folks!

    14. Pam*

      Our IT folks worked miracles when our university flipped to work from home/ all classes online. I do still need to switch to the new VPN.

  72. KC Sunshine*

    There’s a job I really want, I’m very qualified for it, and according to people already in the same position and the person who does the training, I’d be great at it. Why can’t I get the guy in charge of hiring and supervising the position to email me back?!

    1. Cleo*

      Possibilities:
      1. They’ve got plenty better qualified or better fit candidates already
      2. They’ve stopped the hiring process due to the current situation
      3. Your application materials weren’t strong enough
      4. The hiring manager already knows who they’re gonna hire and it’s not you
      5. You’re coming across as desperate and it’s off-putting
      6. Your reputation preceded you, and it wasn’t good
      7. They’ve had a lot of candidates apply and they’re still working through applications
      8. It’s been three* days and you’re already fretting – you need to chill (*adjust number as needed)
      9. The hiring manager is busy with other stuff and this post isn’t a priority right now
      ……

      Pick whichever answer will let you move on from this, and go with it.

    2. Mazzy*

      I was in this boat six years ago. I didn’t get it. Then I saw the person who got it. He had done the same exact job at three companies, including big scary famous name company. He had so much experience that he should’ve been bored doing it. Then I saw that I was still good but the second choice

    3. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      Also, if you haven’t been interviewed, contacting the hiring manager is just annoying. If you have gone through an interview, two emails (spaced *at least* three weeks apart) is the limit.

      As @Cleo says, you need to move on. It’s disappointing, but you’re only hurting your chances of future positions by bothering the hiring manager.

    4. PollyQ*

      Have you actually applied for the job? If not, apply for the job using the company’s stated procedure. If yes, see Cleo’s list, above. Either way, quit emailing the manager. It’s very likely that all you’re doing is annoying him.

  73. em_eye*

    Anyone have any tips for updating your resume in the time of coronavirus? Specifically these points:

    What if you have an accomplishment that would have looked really good, but never materialized because it was suddenly cancelled? Is it appropriate to put Did X, Y, and Z for event A which would have had blah blah blah results (cancelled due to covid-19). Or does that have the feeling of cheating a little bit, because when push comes to shove the thing didn’t actually happen so if you’re looking at it strictly from the perspective of the impact it had, it didn’t?

    Conversely, what about accomplishments that only exist or are made more impressive by the coronavirus? Ie, having to completely replan that cancelled event with basically no notice, putting in intensive work to transition in-person programming online in one week during a time of intense personal and professional stress, and have it go off without a hitch? Is it necessary to add that this was necessitated by covid-19 to provide context for why this even happened, or is it a little tacky to have a global crisis on a document that’s meant to promote your own skills?

    I don’t really expect anyone to have a ton of advice but I’ve been surprised about how difficult it is to find anything online about this at all. I realize I’m in a weird position, because most people looking for jobs right now lost them as a result of coronavirus, and people who do have a lot of additional responsibilities at the moment probably aren’t in a hurry to leave. I need to update my resume for a planned internal transfer, and I’m sure more and more people will be in this position eventually.

    1. AdAgencyChick*

      I would just pretend you’re your boss: What have you done lately that really impressed you? Even if a conference didn’t happen, did you plan it on two months’ notice when you usually have six? I think you can still then list “Planned 3,000-attendee conference in 8 weeks,” even if you don’t have any metrics to show that the conference was a success because it didn’t happen. Similarly, any work that you did on an abbreviated timeline to respond to COVID-19 is definitely worth noting. I know the next time I update my resume, I’ll be talking about how we had our clients’ responses to the crisis ready and operational within XX timeframe.

  74. Respectfully, Pumat Sol*

    Yesterday my company laid off 40 people from corporate, 8 from my own team. I was one of the lucky people that kept my job and I am reeling. I am so grateful I have a job – one that I like! but my heart aches for the people they let go. For others that have been through this – how do you move forward? I didn’t get to say goodbye and I have worked with some of these people for 7 years. It’s going to be so hard today and Monday especially when they aren’t in the Monday morning status meetings. It’s going to be an absolute punch to the gut when they don’t come back when the office reopens.

    2. Ronda*

      when i was laid off and out of the office the same day, i did appreciate my co-worker emailing me to say she was sorry about it. I knew she was , but it was really nice of her to say it.
      If you have an email, linkedin or text for them send them that goodbye that way.

      At the other job that was not so abrupt about leaving, I set up lunches 1 or 2 times a year to keep in touch with some of the folks. Some were folks who had been laid off at same time, others were still at old work place.

  75. AdAgencyChick*

    Managers of AAM: How do you deal when you’ve worked with a unicorn, and you have to go back to…well, not?

    I have an open position on my team currently being filled by a temp worker. The previous staff person in that position performed way above her job title. After less than a year in the job, she got herself another offer. Good for her, not great for me. TPTB tell me I need to fill the position at the same job title as before.

    The temp is doing a great job, but she’s very expensive and so of course my company wants me to fill the job as soon as possible. (Temp isn’t interested in joining us as a staff member anyway.) My problem is that it’s not like I’m flooded with resumes of people applying, and those I’m getting, it’s very clear that I’m going to have to do a lot more active supervision of whoever I hire.

    I will take any good suggestions on how to work well with a mere mortal when you’ve had the same job done by a rock star before. Stuff like how to get the work done at a high level without having to do too much of it myself, how to manage other team members’ expectations in the likely event the work *can’t* be done at as high a level, etc.

    1. LGC*

      I’m kind of in a similar situation right now – I think part of it is…just setting expectations lower. You guys know that you have a rockstar, and you might not be able to get another one. At least for a while. Figure out what the minimum you need for that person is – or maybe those persons, since you might need two people to fill those shoes – and then go from there.

      And you might be surprised – some of your prospective hires might not have impressive resumes, but they’ll have skills that might not show up initially. Plus, I think rockstars are less born (or hired) than made, or at least that’s been my experience.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        This last bit especially. I would look for someone with the best skills but also potential–you might end up making another unicorn.

    2. NicoleK*

      Please assess and hire for skill and aptitude. My boss tends to hire people she likes. One of her direct reports is incompetent and one doesn’t live up to expectations.

  76. Lucette Kensack*

    In anticipation of the likelihood of getting laid off later this year, I could use some advice on working in learning & development and/or instructional design.

    My current work is designing, managing, and facilitating leadership development programming. My focus is on long-term, cohort-based programming (as opposed to shorter, skills-based trainings, although I do have that experience as well). I’ve worked in the nonprofit sector, and am thinking about making a shift to the for-profit/corporate world. I’m skilled at this work, but have no formal background in it — I learned as I went, with (ironically), not much training along the way.

    Is there any coursework or are there any certifications that folks would recommend?

  77. Mark B*

    Can we use PPP funds to pay hourly employees that are not working (can’t come in for safety reasons and there is no work to do anyway)? We would like to get them back on payroll and off of unemployment, but we would typically not pay for hours not worked!

  78. Ariana Grande's Ponytail*

    I don’t need any advice, but this is completely annoying and hilarious in equal measures to me.

    The chair of the department I work under at my university has started hosting virtual group meditation seminars 2 times a day, and emails the listserv 1-2x for each of those meetings. One is at 2pm, and the other is at 9:30pm. Who wants to
    a) attend group meditation with their coworkers
    b) do so virtually
    c) at 9:30pm ?!?

    This is the same man who, at the beginning of this crisis, sent out an email expounding on how now is a great time to evaluate our comfort with dying. I’m in my mid 20s and defiinitely not cool with dying any time soon, but thanks bud.

    2. Nessun*

      There is no ascii/emoji/gif sufficient for the face I just made when I read this. So. Horrifying.

    3. Mbarr*

      I… what? What was he expecting with the “comfort of dying” email? Is he suggesting you can alleviate your concerns someway???

    4. juliebulie*

      wut
      I don’t want to do it at 9:30pm. I don’t want to do it at 2pm.
      I have evaluated my comfort with dying: I don’t have any.
      I’m a little worried these goofy emails from him will escalate in the coming weeks…

    5. Koala dreams*

      Not everybody is a morning bird. This wouldn’t be so bad if it wasn’t led by the man who wants you to evalueate your comfort with dying.

    8. TheFacelessOldWomanWhoSecretlyLivesinYour House*

      The comfort with dying really isn’t so bad. People have become so disconnected, they don’t realize everyone dies. Dying should be seen simply as part of life–fight to live but accept that death is there, will come for all of us

      1. That Girl from Quinn's House*

        People have become so disconnected from death, that hospital workers are running to the media to complain about temporary morgue facilities being inhumane, without realizing that the alternative could be way worse.

  79. Bear Shark*

    Co-worker sent out a “coronavirus bingo” card to over 200 people asking them to fill it out and return to enter to win a prize. I would just roll my eyes and ignore it if it didn’t include squares like “had a panic attack.” I’m debating pointing out that some of the squares are kind of invasive for coworkers to be asking about but maybe I’m too sensitive. I got verbally attacked by a previous coworker in the past for asking if she could please leave me off her kid’s sports fundraiser emails (no judgement or complaints to anyone else, just “hey can you please take me off your fundraiser list?”) so I’m hesitant to even just ask to be taken off this coworker’s distribution list must less say I think it’s inappropriate.

    1. MicroManagered*

      I can see this both ways… I can see how being able to laugh about the situation might be therapeutic to some people, but I can also see squares like “had a panic attack” as making light of people who actually do have panic attacks?

      I think whether to pursue it or let it go depends on how many squares there are like that. And if you do say something, it could go like this “Hey I’m sure you didn’t mean it this way, but people who are struggling with mental health could take this as making fun of them. Could you find something else to put in the “panic attack” and X and Y squares?”

      I think that script does 2 things: It uses the AAM-recommended “of course you didn’t mean it this way” to let them save face and asking them to “find something else” says you are not asking them to stop the game, but to have less sensitive topics in the squares.

      As for your former coworker, that sounds like a her-problem. I probably would’ve just kept with deleting the fundraising requests? But if someone politely says “hey can you please not send me these” the correct response is “sure!”

      1. Bear Shark*

        I’m thinking I need to let it go. Thanks for the input, I think I just needed to vent somewhere about it. I have anxiety and working from home while school/childcare is closed here and my spouse is out in public working an essential role is wearing on me.

    2. ToodleOodleWhordleOrdle*

      “Hey, coronavirus bingo is a fun idea, but some of the items on the card we’re using relate to private health info that people shouldn’t feel pressured to reveal at work. It’s probably best to change those items if we’re using it as a work activity!”

    3. Jules the 3rd*

      I would be livid. This goes beyond the COO’s daily jokes. Any reasonable person would accept, ‘hey, this is not my thing, please leave me off future emails about it.’ The co-worker who attacked you before was not reasonable, so don’t let that influence you.

      If lots of your co-workers are unreasonable about this, that’s a red flag for the company.

    4. Teacher Lady*

      I agree that rubs me the wrong way as a thing to send out to a large number of people. A coworker/friend and I have been texting back and forth about a hypothetical COVID-19 drinking game, but we both know that the other one finds it humorous and is okay with it. It’s definitely not a joke I’d initiate with anyone else, or advise anyone else to initiate with others without knowing how it’ll be received!

  80. COVIDworker*

    I’m glad that my company is being generous and flexible with WFH arrangements. What sticks out at me though are the emphasis on the temporary nature of WFH and following “business as usual” processes.

    It seems like management doesn’t understand that things can’t go back to the way they were. This lockdown may last for a while longer, and COVID has a good chance of flaring up again. Some managers are just going to have to get over their micromanaging tendencies, or move over for those more able to lead a remote workforce.

    1. AnotherAlison*

      I will say I think my company is doing a GREAT job with all this, but the “business as usual” comments chafe a little, for slightly different reasons than you say. I def. agree with what you say and a new normal will exist, but I also think it’s pretty difficult to have business as usual when life is so weird. Work is fine–life is nuts. My company is big, so I think a lot of the direction is coming from executive management who have a lot of resources and SAHW to support them while they WFH. I have a lot more resources than the average American, but I’m working in a t.p.-rationing household and can’t get a haircut. Allow that employees will do their jobs, but our focus is not our usual level.

    2. Bear Shark*

      I’ve noticed that my company’s management is gradually loosening the emphasis on “business as usual”
      They started with a strict reminder that WFH can’t replace childcare even in this situation, I notice there haven’t been reminders like that now that all the managers with small kids are home with them because many of the area daycares are shut down.

    3. Oh No She Di'int*

      We’re working from the assumption that we will likely have progressive waves of restriction and opening, restriction and opening, possibly for up to 2 years. This was one of the scenarios modeled in the major Imperial College London paper mapping out different possible courses for the pandemic.

      So we are essentially developing 2 different work protocols: a housebound, distributed protocol and an on-site, centralized protocol. The plan is that we will be able to switch as needed between the two protocols. We’re assuming we’re going to be dealing with this for quite a while.

    4. My boss made me walk across coals for a promotion*

      The leadership at my last company – decided to lay off 50% of staff and is now demanding that everyone left work even harder to pick up the slack. Based on what work friends are telling me she wants to hold meetings with them all the time about being more productive – but her meetings are hours long…..hours that could be spent actually doing the productivity work. She’s a micromanager and awful and I won’t be surprised if the company tanks due to her.

  81. jackers*

    Help! About 4 months ago I became the grand-boss of a casual work acquaintance, J, who’ve I known at the office for over 10 years. He has maintained the casualness too much, in my opinion (IMs me with mundane non-work related stuff all the time), but I honestly haven’t addressed it with him yet. I passive aggressively ignore any non-work related IMs and only respond to work-related ones. He hasn’t caught on. In addition, he has horrible tact and lacks self-awareness and says really stupid things sometimes with no understanding that it might upset the person hearing it (for example, a few years ago, literally five minutes after I told him my father-in-law passed away while I was still crying in my office from the news, he tried to start up an IM conversation about the new car he just bought and how I needed to check it out sometime).
    We are all working remote currently and he just IM’d me to tell me that his buddy who works at XYZ company, that is currently on a two week shutdown, just found out they are taking paycuts and cutting all bonuses and raises. My husband also works for company XYZ ,which J knows. My husband has not been informed of this information. I find it horribly inappropriate, both personally and professionally, that J chose to share this “gossip” with me. I’m brain dead from all the other crap going on currently and working 12 hour days. Help on how to address?!? I want to IM him back and just tell him it’s inappropriate and then ignore him, but I know this requires me calling him and actually telling him that so he can appreciate the tone of my voice. But I’m also so p!ssed that I don’t know if I can handle it at the moment. I need outside rational help.

    1. jackers*

      For the record, I know I should have addressed the mundane IMs, I just haven’t. Was low on the priority list.

    2. Anono-me*

      Specifically I do want to suggest that J sharing the information about the layoffs in bonus cuts at your husband’s company may have been well-intentioned. How would you feel if your husband had gone out to buy a new expensive WFH laptop or other big ticket item after J knew about the cuts but before your husband did?

      1. That Girl from Quinn's House*

        Yeah, this…it might have been well-intentioned.

        I’ve noticed that men are often allowed to keep their jobs despite having generally poor social skills. It gets tedious having to mentor them on top of everything else, but it does make it easier to not take it personally that Fergus is a tactless lout when he’s a tactless lout to everyone.

    3. Jules the 3rd*

      Can you block him on IM for a week, and set up a reminder on your calendar to revisit this when you’ve got some distance? Yeah, you do need to call, but I wouldn’t get into that particular one. I’d just aim for ‘Work-related IMs only, please.’

  82. RemoteHealthWorker*

    Anyone else experiencing furloughs that arent being called furloughs? My company just announced mandatory pto will be coming up with those who are out going unpaid. Thats essentially a furlough but I am not sure if they will fight that classification if I apply for unemployment.

    1. PollyQ*

      I believe that any time your hours are cut, even if it’s temporary, you’re generally eligible for unemployment.

    2. Chaordic One*

      Go ahead and apply anyway, they might not fight it. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

  83. Everything's Coming Up Milhouse!*

    I wanted to share some job hunting good news! I just accepted an offer for a great promotion making almost double my current salary, doing something that better aligns with my experience and interests. I’m really excited! I hadn’t expected this role to move forward once the pandemic hit, but it did, it just took longer. (Right after that, I got offered a dog who needs a new home. Bonus!) For those of you still looking, don’t give up hope!

  84. Kimmy Schmidt*

    I feel like I am doing relatively okay with working from home, but there is one issue that is really wearing on me.

    A few of my colleagues have taken to complaining about their lack of technical knowledge in every interaction. I get that this transition is difficult, but I am so sick of hearing about how they hate technology and think they’re so stupid for not getting it or how everything must be so easy for me because I’m younger.

    Is there anything I can do besides telling them to call the IT help desk?

    1. Jedi Squirrel*

      There is a wonderful site called “Let Me Google That For You” at lmgtfy dot com. Once you learn how to use it, it’s great for making a point.

      1. Alianora*

        Ha, I wish I could be that blunt with some of my coworkers (asking me to send them a link that was in an email we were both copied on, how to edit an outlook meeting series instead of just a single meeting, and so on).

    2. Joielle*

      Ugh, I feel you. I have one coworker who’s planning to retire over the summer and is just sort of… refusing to figure out any of the tech that’s allowing us all to work from home. Despite the fact that joining a webex meeting literally requires clicking a link in your calendar, she “never uses the calendar” and therefore just… doesn’t join meetings? It’s not really my issue since I don’t work directly with her on anything, but… come on. You can’t just not do your job for several months before you retire. We also used to do a lot of editing on paper, but now we’re doing everything with tracked changes and comments in Word, and she can’t figure that out despite it being one button, so she just types all over the document in red, which is a godawful mess.

      I’m not volunteering to become tech support, so I just sort of go “huh” or “yeah, it can be confusing” or some other vague but sympathetic noises. I seem to be getting less of the complaining now because I’m not a satisfying audience. I think these people know where they could go for answers – they’re not stupid! – but it requires a modicum of effort, and complaining about how they couldn’t POSSIBLY is much easier. If TPTB don’t care enough to do anything about it, then I don’t either.

    3. PollyQ*

      Sometimes being overly chipper (e.g., “This is a great learning opportunity for you then!”) will at least get them to quit complaining to you, if not change their underlying attitudes.

  85. Kiitemso*

    Colleague and I are a team of two. There was a minor re-organization at the start of April, where our boss changed teams so she is no longer our boss, the our new boss hasn’t really been in touch because we’re all wfh right now. I feel weird because I feel like my new boss doesn’t know half of what I do in detail and my new-ish colleague can’t ask her anything because she doesn’t know the stuff we do, so I am the only place my team member can go for advice, unless she wants to bother our boss.

    Just feeling pretty weird. What are your horror or success stories of changing managers?

    1. Sparkly Librarian*

      In a similar limbo right now. My first day at the new location (post-transfer) would have been the beginning of this week. My new boss, who was leaning in hard with long helpful emails and other communication during the transition, went on maternity leave last Friday. HER boss (my acting supervisor in most respects through mid-September, and the department supervisor) started the week before that and has been dealing with COVID-19 operations ever since.

      I feel like we’ve gotten off on the wrong foot (although I did manage to introduce myself face-to-face in her first week, before we closed all locations). [details are too long, boring, and specific] With the previous person who had the grandboss spot, I had a great working relationship, mutual respect, and a lot of capital. She knows that I am good at my job, that I seek solutions, that I am clear about what I can do (and follow through with it) and what I can’t do (for good reasons). I don’t have any of this history or capital with the new grandboss, and I’m only able to do a very small part of my usual job under current conditions so it’s hard to prove that I am good at it.

  86. Should I stay or should I go?*

    Question about retainment offers.

    Has anyone ever successfully taken one and stayed? I think I might end up leaving anyway, even if the retainment offer my current company proposes is as expected. The new position would just be such a great step up the ladder, but I know my current position has no openings like that.

    The only reason I’m thinking of staying is that if I do the current company would pay for my degree at an Ivy school (my current place), but the new company wouldn’t. So is it worth having a degree from a big name place, or leaving for a more interesting and challenging job?

    1. Anono-me*

      If you already are looking at leaving, how do you think you will feel knowing that you’ll have to stay until the degree is finished and then probably an additional number of years due to claw back provisions?

    2. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      I don’t have experience with a retainment, so this is probably useless.

      Most of us go to school to get further in our careers, so it makes more sense to me to go for the new job. You were looking for a reason (no room for growth) and it doesn’t sound like that is going to change. Also, it turns out that which school you go to doesn’t matter for the most part.

      1. should i stay or should i go*

        aye but in higher education I think the rules push it closer to equal

        1. Analytical Tree Hugger*

          Hm, that does change things a bit. In my experience (I worked in an academia, research side for a handful of years), folks who worked outside of academia for a while are more effective because they have a wider range of experience, etc. I don’t mean they advance faster or further, just that I enjoyed working with them more because they were more effective and efficient.

          1. Should I stay or should I go?*

            That makes sense to me! A few of my mentors have agreed that I’d get more interview opportunities with a big name degree, but I’m not sure how to balance that in the long run as the ultimate good. Anyway, thank you for your response! I appreciate it!

  87. Some Internet Rando*

    My husband and I are both working from home for the first time due to COVID-19. This is short term and we anticipate doing this for about 2 months or maybe a little longer before we can be back face to face. For those of you who have experience working from home, can we deduct expenses on our taxes next year? Is there a period of time we need to do this before its deductible? If so, what kinds of things should we be keeping track of? We had to buy an additional laptop (work wouldn’t pay) and obviously cover internet expenses (although we pay for that anyway), cost of heating the house during the day, and we utilize a home office (and other space). Any tips?

    1. Rusty Shackelford*

      First, find out what percentage of your income the business expenses have to be in order to be deductible. IIRC, it’s high enough that causal costs, even buying a new laptop, aren’t going to get you there. Especially with the new, higher standard deduction.

    2. Jules the 3rd*

      I did this through turbo-tax for several years, and my memory of how it worked through 2018 was:
      ‘Capital’ expenses, like laptop / chair, or remodel for just office space: track separately
      (ie, we paid an electrician to upgrade outlets, it was deductable)
      Variable / operating expenses, like electricity, rent, internet, I needed to know:
      – Total annual or average monthly amount
      – Size of the *dedicated office space*
      – Size of the total residence
      Turbotax calculated the % of total costs that could be allocated to the dedicated office space. I’ve not been audited, but I keep one bill per year for electricity / internet to use as backup in case I ever am.

      1. Jules the 3rd*

        But yeah, per Rusty’s point, this only applied to an itemized deduction, when they increased the standard deduction in the US a couple of years ago, itemized was no longer worth it.

      2. Enough*

        And dedicated office space must not be something you use for other things. So your dining room is not a dedicated office space if you clear off the table to eat.

    3. My boss made me walk across coals for a promotion*

      Up until recently (I believe 2018) employees who incurred expenses due to work, could file a form 2106, unreimbursed employee expenses. But that was only worth it if you itemized on your taxes. Since the standard deduction was increased, not as many people qualified for itemized deductions. And the 2106 was phased out as well. This is all if you’re a W2 employee, if you’re a contractor or self employed and get paid on 1099, you could possibly deduct it on a schedule C but that’s a little trickier – best bet is to talk to a tax pro.

    4. Margaret*

      Through 2017, before the tax reform changes, you could potentially deduct supplies you bought and a percentage of housing expenses allocable to your home office. However, not many people benefited even then, because it was in the “misc itemized deductions” bucket that had to exceed 2% of your income before becoming deductible.

      And then that went away with the tax reform for 2018 and later. Actual self-employed/small businesses can still deduct those types of expenses as business expenses, but unfortunately it’s no longer a thing for employees.

  88. my_employees_are_messy*

    So, I mentioned a craptastic former direct report drinking wine and openly smoking weed in a meeting in the “things you’ve seen while working remotely” thread, and someone told me I should post the whole story here, so:

    “Gertrude” was a contract worker who we brought on board in December. At first, she was super-conscientious (to the point of being kind of annoying!) and on the ball, but after about a month, she slipped straight into DGAF territory. Her work, which had always been acceptable, became completely bonkers. The phrase “word salad” came up a lot. She also started treating her peers as if they worked for her and pulling weird power plays like asking me a question in front of my boss, then loudly questioning my answer. Nevertheless, she was very passionate about the project still, and a fast worker, so we let her stay on, especially once the virus panic started.

    The meeting in question where I caught her smoking and drinking was about three weeks ago, and she’s since been fired! Here’s what happened:

    My boss heard about the substances-in-a-meeting incident and undertook a review of Gertrude’s portfolio. There were, to be honest, few examples of good work. She and I agreed to set up a retraining program for Gertrude to mitigate these problems. I went off to have a conversation about it with Gertrude in which she yelled, cried, apologized, blamed everyone else, and denied there was an issue. Sometimes simultaneously!

    THE VERY NEXT DAY, one of my junior editors brought a piece of Gertrude’s work to my attention- it was copied wholesale from The Guardian. We did a bit more digging in that same pile and found a ripped-off Wikipedia article. Finding out that she had been plagiarising in addition to the shoddy work, combative attitude, and general disrespect she had shown, my boss decided to lay her off until the project reached a more customer-focused phase and we would be able to use her more constructively. YES, SHE SHOULD HAVE BEEN FIRED, STRAIGHT-UP! But my boss is very conscious of the pandemic and its effects on employment, so she decided it would be kinder to suspend her and then reassign her.

    After one night of her saying it was okay and that she WANTED to come back (she said, and I quote, “please please please don’t forget me when you hire for that role! I love this project and I want to be involved no matter what!” …well, she did a full 180. We discovered many missing files which had already been billed for, but apparently never submitted, so another employee contacted her to ask for a file they needed. The response was a cold “I’ve deleted everything. Sorry. Xx” Yes, she really did write “Xx.”

    The next five days, including the weekend, were a total write-off. We had to freeze all development and pore through every single database, folder, and USB we had to try and find her missing files. The final count was something like 25.

    My boss contacted her to tell her that her final paycheck would be adjusted accordingly, as the missing work total roughly totaled 150 hours. SUDDENLY, ALL OF HER FILES REAPPEARED AND SHE WAS ABLE TO SEND THEM!!!! Wow, what a mystery!

    The employee who’d originally asked her for a missing file (who was a close friend of hers) texted her and asked, “You never really deleted those files, did you?”

    Gertrude’s response? “No, I’m sorry. I just moved them off my computer. I’m sorry. Xxx”

    Well, she’s f-ing fired for real now. And I have a hell of a mess to clean up! But I reckon the story of her incredibly lame attempt at screwing the company will make me laugh for a while yet…

    (she also apparently thought the phrase “for safety’s sake” was “for safety-sake,” but I won’t even go there.)

      1. valentine*

        I hope your employer gets better about evaluating work and knowing when to cut people loose.

    3. GoryDetails*

      Thanks for the update; I’d been wondering about that. Serious WTF going on there!

  89. Scorbunny*

    Long time lurker, first time poster, and I really just need some reassurance that I did the right thing with regard to boundaries. I just went remote a couple of weeks ago, and part of my job involves taking calls and emails from clients and providing assistance. I was not at all comfortable with having the work phone forwarded to my personal number, as if I needed to call anyone back, they’d get that call from my personal number. Plus, the people calling occasionally have zero to no concept of normal business hours, and I did not want to be getting constant calls outside of work hours. I drew a hard boundary at that possibility and even offered some suggestions (Google Voice number, prepaid phone from Walmart I was willing to pay for if push came to shove, other VoIP call solutions, etc) that were all shot down. I maintained my boundary, and the job was shifted to running that end of things email-only, with callers directed to send me an email instead. Everything has been going smoothly so far (knock on wood), and as a bonus, it’s much easier to keep track of everything with it all in writing all in one place. My response times have improved dramatically, too, because I’m not constantly having to stop what I’m doing with the phone ringing and people have been far more likely to just send me pictures of their issues instead of trying to describe it to me over the phone.

    Problem is, I’ve been stupidly anxious over whether or not I did the right thing in setting that boundary. Other people in my organization have forwarded calls to their personal numbers, though their roles do not hinge quite so much on dealing with the general public as manning this phone line would. They build rapports with individuals. They know the people who will be calling them. I sort of tell everyone where to go or help them with their problems and then send them on their way. My supervisor prefers using the phone and tried to talk me into forwarding calls to mine, but I still refused. (He has my number so he can call me for work matters, which is perfectly fine! I just don’t want to use my personal number for dealing with the general public.) After a discussion with him yesterday, I do have to wonder if he even remembers I’ve gone email only with the public, and I made no effort to remind him. The big boss, who headhunted me for this job from another department, seems fine with this arrangement, which I have to keep reminding myself. I keep worrying over whether or not not using my personal phone is going to reflect poorly on me, but I am pretty sure I’m just jumping to the worst possible outcome. Did I do the right thing in refusing to use my personal number for this? It’s an unprecedented sort of emergency situation and I guess I worry I’m not stepping up enough for that, but I really value having a work-life balance and being able to fully disconnect once I’ve terminated my remote connection and gotten off the VPN.

    1. Should I stay or should I go?*

      It sounds fine, going email only is perfectly reasonable. I would never give out my personal cell for general public calls. You made the right choice.

      1. Scorbunny*

        Thanks! I feel good about my decision, but sometimes you need a little reassurance from someone removed from the situation, you know?

          1. valentine*

            As a security blanket, you could get a Google Voice number and tell them it’s your new number. I’d be willing to change my number over this, because it takes just one person “forgetting” or not caring about security to give out your number.

            It’s really weird they insisted it had to be your current phone number and no other.

            1. Scorbunny*

              The person who was refusing to let me use the Google Voice number was concerned about Google’s security and what Google would do with the call data, which is why that got shot down. I’m kind of rolling with “crisis, everyone’s freaking out about everything” to explain a lot of the weirdness here, because otherwise, I got nothin’.

    2. submerged tenths*

      YAY, boundaries!! YAY, YOU!!! Yes, you absolutely did the right thing, please don’t worry about it. Plus, when everything returns to normal you have the evidence (quicker response times, better tracking) that email is a better way to go.

      1. Scorbunny*

        Thank you! And I don’t even mind going back to calls when things go back to normal, but right now it’s extremely nice to have everything in one place and only coming from one source.

    3. Kiitemso*

      Your work should provide you with a work phone if you are required to take work calls remotely. Simple as that.

      1. Diahann Carroll*

        This. Or set you up with a Teams account that has a phone number attached that will ring your computer.

        1. Scorbunny*

          We have Teams but I haven’t needed to use it yet–and I didn’t realize it could do that. Thanks for saying that, because now I have another card to play if I need it!

    4. JustaTech*

      I mean, your response times have improved dramatically, so if your boss does try to fuss you had hard numbers to *prove* that this is working.

      You offered plenty of other solutions, so it’s not like you just said “no”. And I have to wonder, is your company paying for the phone bills of everyone who is using their personal phones?

      1. Scorbunny*

        I can pretty much guarantee they’re not paying anyone else’s phone bills for this. Shocking, right? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  90. JustaTech*

    Quick gut check request: My company is asking us to use our vacation time now to help us deal with the fact that we’ve got way fewer patients coming in for the next while. I think this is totally reasonable, but some of my coworkers were pissed.
    First, it’s a request, not a demand, and HR was super clear that if you use vacation time you need to actually *use* it, meaning absolutely no working if you’re using vacation time. Second, while they said that people would be *allowed* to go negative, no one would be expected to.

    I think this is perfectly reasonable, as vacation time shows up as debt on the company books, but I also acknowledge that 1) I’ve maxed out my vacation (again), and 2) my specific work is not so busy that I can’t take, say every Friday in April off (which I have, so I’m on my personal computer today). My department director had a meeting about this yesterday and he was super clear that this is voluntary, and he’s walking the talk and taking Wednesdays for at least the next month.

    Is there something nefarious or obnoxious about this that I’m missing? My coworker who was the most upset does have a tendency to get upset about weird things until they’re explained (and then she’s OK).

    1. Diahann Carroll*

      Well, if she had a trip planned for later in the year that she wanted to save days for, I could see her being annoyed – if it was an order. But since you said it was merely a suggestion and people are free to decline, yeah, she’s overreacting.

      1. JustaTech*

        She did, but if the trip was going forward (which it isn’t) it would have fallen in the time frame that they’ve asked us to use our vacation (between now and July 5th), so that trip *would* have counted towards the “please take vacation”.

        Thinking about it, that might have been why she was really upset, because it drove home that she’s not getting to go on this big, extra special trip she’s been planning for more than a year.

  91. Laney Boggs*

    My job just laid off two people from now to June 4. One was my department, one an adjacent one under the same supervisors. I’ve only worked there since July (both laid off were 15+ years), and I’m getting a tad nervous

    1. Jambon-Beurre*

      There are often reasons people are the first to be laid off despite their seniority. So try your best not to worry. Easier said than done I know.

  92. Mazzy*

    On a lighter note, this is something that I’m still noticing and it bothers me, I don’t know why! My coworkers must’ve read a book on communications last year, because at some point, he really took the advice of using someone’s name in conversation to make them like you advice to heart. He’s doing it all the time now. If you’re going to change your behavior for such obvious self-interest, then be subtle about. Not every conversation needs to be:
    Him: Hell Donna, what can I do for you Donna
    Donna: yadda yadda yadda
    Him: We can do that Donna
    Donna: thanks
    Him: Your welcome Donna

    She knows her name!

    1. GoryDetails*

      That would irk me, too. I mean, the technique of using a person’s name can be handy in remembering it in the first place (I’m bad with names unless I can see them written down; spent my entire working life looking at people’s nametags, door-signs, or names-on-computer-printout), but in regular conversation with someone who isn’t new to me I don’t think I *ever* use their names, at least not to address them directly. (I may be an outlier there; the folks who write the communication books apparently think everybody LOVES to hear their own names, so presumably the authors and some percentage of the public really do.)

      Also, now I’ve got the lyrics to Richie Valens’ “Donna” running through my head.

      1. Mazzy*

        the folks who write the communication books apparently think everybody LOVES to hear their own names

        HA ha so true. And yeah, I thought of Dion – Donna The Prima Donna

        When he does this and says your name three times in a short chat it reminds of a someone who’s kind of sleazy and winks at you with on one after they something they think is cute. I’m not sure why, maybe because it just seems so fake. Like you’re trying too hard to be seen a certain way, instead of just being it.

      1. MacGillicuddy*

        I find it close to smarmy. Reminds me of salesmen who say your name in every sentence in an attempt to be “friendly” so they can sell you stuff.
        Gets my hackles up, and puts my bulls#!t meter on high alert!

    3. CSR by Day*

      I’ve run into situations where, if you call someone by their first name, they think you’re being too familiar and/or disrespectful, but when you call them by Mr. or Ms. they think you’re being too formal and/or patronizing. You can’t win.

      I try to avoid using names after I’ve asked the person to identify themselves early in the call.

  93. Feeling Terrible*

    I’ve done something awful that I’m deeply ashamed about. A coworker had been on medical leave, and I was her primary backup person. Because she was going to be out for a while and possibly have to go out again after her return, IT gave me full access to her e-mail indefinitely until her situation stabilizes.

    Here is where I feel like the scum of the earth. Every year, we get a letter from HR letting us know about our raise and bonus (if applicable). I snooped in her e-mail and found this letter. So I now know her salary, raise, and bonus amounts.

    I feel so guilty and ashamed I did this. And other than making a firm promise to myself that I’ll never snoop like this again, I can’t think of anything else I can do. I can’t believe I did this. Any suggestions for how to ease my guilty conscience?

    1. ...*

      You didn’t cause any actual harm to a person in a significant way so there’s really nothing to feel overly guilty about. Sure it wasn’t the ideal thing morally but really was anyone harmed? No.

      1. valentine*

        How do you feel about the actual information? If you felt differently, what might you do?

        Why did you do it? What was it supposed to give you? Find that out and find another way to get it.

        Any reason IT can’t set an OOO on her account saying to contact you instead?

    2. MicroManagered*

      Two things:

      1) Realize that salaries shouldn’t be the big secret that they are. I work for a public employer, so our names and salaries are published all over the web, so maybe I have a different perspective. You can easily google my salary, my raise, and the exact amounts of any bonuses I received. You will find that AAM is an outspoken advocate of not keeping salaries secret. Did you snoop? Yes. Does that suck? Yes, you suck for snooping. BUT the actual information you looked at should not be as secretive as it is.

      2) Forgive yourself and move on, make amends by never doing it again. When the guilt comes up, acknowledge it so you remember that the guilt wasn’t worth the snoop (because, again, salaries aren’t some dirty dirty secret). Then say “I forgive myself for doing that and I will never do it again.”

    3. EnfysNest*

      Would it help you if you could find a way to forget the exact numbers you saw? I’ve found that it’s basically impossible in life to intentionally forget something, but I can replace it with something similar or different. Sort of like focusing on a different song to get rid of one that’s stuck in your head.

      So, what if you pick a new set of numbers to memorize each week. Maybe Google the pay range for that type of position, come up with a bunch of different specific numbers within that range and then a random bonus/raise number, and every week, you memorize a new set of numbers. Every time you start to think of the email you saw, you think of the numbers you’re memorizing for your current week. And then, after time, you’ll have all these new numbers in your head and hopefully you won’t even be able to remember which ones are the original ones. You could adjust the timeline for when you switch numbers to whatever works best for you, or just focus on one new set of numbers forever, just whatever you can do to make it so that your first thought when you think of your coworker is something inaccurate. And then over time you can hopefully get to a point where all that you know about your coworker’s salary is that you don’t have the right number, so you stop even trying to think of it.

  94. Weird Work Things You Miss*

    Anything from work you didn’t expect to miss while WFH?

    I realized that mine has been low-stakes complaining. I’m working on a deal and one of the client’s employees is not great at her job: asks for things with some urgency, but then asks for the same thing two days later and doesn’t seem super-knowledgeable about the field (for all my transactional attorneys: she conflated certificates of good standing with UCC/lien searches). If I were in the office, I’d see someone else on the project and say “ugh, she is so frustrating!” and feel better about it, but now, calling or emailing specifically about this feels so petty and formal and I can’t let off steam about it

    1. MahoganyTan*

      Actually making an instant decision about anything where a colleague is involved. At work we just meet up in person and hit decisions out of the park, now it’s a constant email stream back and forth because invariably someone is having technical problems with their computer and can’t conference. I’ll never dread someone dropping by my cubicle again!

    2. Rusty Shackelford*

      Walking! The bathroom, the kitchen, my coworker’s offices, meeting rooms… I’m barely moving now.

      1. Scorbunny*

        I walked laps all over the house yesterday for about fifteen minutes to try to get some movement going; I totally know this feeling.

  95. Diluted Tortoiseshell*

    Let’s talk private company furloughs. What’s the deal? What can we do? My company announced today we are all to take mandatory PTO or go unpaid for those of us with no PTO in the bank. I would think I could apply for unemployment as a furloughed employee but I am not sure.

    2. My boss made me walk across coals for a promotion*

      Under furlough you can apply for unemployment.

      If you do unemployment, that might not be as much as what you’re currently making. Unemployment is always a fraction of what you make. The federal flat amount is $600 but every state has a max benefit.

      If you have PTO, I would advise you to take it, especially if your company doesn’t pay out PTO. That’s time off that you’re paid for and it would be higher than what you’d get through unemploymetn.

  96. Disco Janet*

    I’m having an awful time being a good teacher through all this. I was really sick and out a few days before all this started, and right before that my students turned in essays. So I’ve been working through a giant grading backlog (ten essays left) while constantly getting parent and student emails asking why they’re not done yet. My husband is an essential worker who is keeping his distance when he is home since he’s out there being exposed every day. I’m taking care of and teaching my own small children, one who has special needs. I’m worried sick over my high risk father who was exposed thanks to a stupid employee who just had to go to Florida last week for her birthday because flight prices were so low.

    It has been highly suggested that we post work for our students and host Zoom meetings. But we can’t grade the work. I can’t discuss the book we were reading before all this started on Zoom, because the topics are wayyyyy too dark for my small children. But technically school isn’t requiring anything – they’re still battling the union over those details.

    I feel like I’m failing my students, but am so overwhelmed I’m at the point where I want to just shut down and not respond to any of their emails asking me to do more and faster.

    1. Kimmy Schmidt*

      No real advice, but I’m very sorry your dealing with all this.
      Take care of yourself, and know that most of your students and parents are understanding and supportive (they just may not be the most vocal).

    2. just a random teacher*

      This really isn’t a time when any of us are going to be award-winning teachers. It’s ok that it’s not going well.

      For the book discussion, could you do it message-board-style rather than over Zoom? That would both make it easier for your students who may not be able to get online at a specific time and mean that you don’t have to worry about little ears hearing things they shouldn’t. (I don’t know if reading over your shoulder is also an issue for your kids, or if they’re too young for that to be as much of a concern.)

    3. Anono-me*

      Can you just tak the body of one of the email replies about the essay and copy and paste it into any remaining inquiries?

      I also think until the school board has an actual plan, that making some resources available on a board is probably the most practical approach. Is there another books that is free online that your students could read now? If you don’t already have some suggestion questions written out, there are probably tens available online.

    4. J.B.*

      I’m sorry. Since you say essays you probably teach middle or high schoolers? Can you assign some kind of project based work, something that would interest the kids? Then have web meetings to guide and discuss but let the kids take the lead. And maybe you could record a few videos ahead of time and have your class watch and then respond with some kind of blog post.

      I have no idea what the parents are thinking demanding grades. Who cares this point, as long as the kid learns something? I’m so sorry about your dad, I hope very much he is ok.

    5. PollyQ*

      First off, you are not “failing” your students. You’re doing the best you can under difficult circumstances, as are they, and presumably their parents. Will your students learn less this spring than they would have otherwise? Maybe, but they’ll be fine overall anyway.

      It’s your call whether you think the parents would be more reassured hearing about what you’re dealing with or not. A reminder that you’re a human being with a family of her own to be dealing with could help people remember that you’re not just a teaching robot. You also don’t necessarily respond to each email — a group email, or a canned response, would suffice.

      Good luck!

  97. Rebecca*

    My company is doing furlough vs layoffs to keep health insurance intact – grateful for that.

    My question is – can I even ask to take a few hours off each week? Should I ask? I’m exhausted and stressed over the virus issue, but my actual work is easier since I’m at home. I’m non-exempt, there’s no overtime, and I’m struggling to keep up. I would like to ask to take a half day vacation every so often if it’s sunny and nice and things are relatively caught up (no emergency things).

    1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      If you aren’t behind in work and have the PTO available, I don’t know why they’d be fussed about you asking to take half a day off!

      It’s okay to need time off right now. I’ve got people still asking for days and time off for their various reasons.

      Hell, I just saw someone the store calling off a shift a few weeks ago. Just because we’re working and essential doesn’t mean that we don’t need to take time for ourselves. You’re at high risk of burnout and if a half day will help combat that, you should do it.

      1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

        Same – my boss flat out told our team last week that if they have PTO and want to use it, it will 100% be approved, no questions asked and no limitations except that she’d prefer people not take more than two weeks off in a row.

    2. My boss made me walk across coals for a promotion*

      I’m confused if you’re on furlough, doesn’t that mean you can’t work at all?

      1. Rebecca*

        I’m still working but covering for people who are furloughed, which has increased my workload. I’m struggling with wanting to ask for time off or not, part of me feels like yes, I earned my paid time off , but the reality is now sinking in that if those of us who are left do that, things just won’t get done.

  98. Python On The Side*

    Should I put information about my online school degree on my resume if I’m job hunting in this environment?

    While I was working full-time the past 6 months, I started attending an online school in an unrelated field part=time so that I could eventually graduate and change into a different career (office work to CS). But now I got laid off and am looking for a new job and have to update my resume.

    Now I’m wondering whether I should put on my resume that I’m currently pursuing this new CS degree? I know intermediate python now so I’m thinking it could be a possible positive for some positions? Yet I am also thinking this would be bad because possible hiring managers may think that I’m not going to be able to fully commit myself to the new job due to my schooling and/or my python skills aren’t really applicable for the position?

    1. Respectfully, Pumat Sol*

      Tailor your resume to the job you’re applying for. If your CS degree work isn’t relevant to the job, leave it off. If it is, include it!

  99. MissMia*

    Hi everyone! This is a little long, I’m sorry.

    So I have a situation and I’m not sure what to do.
    I worked for a temp agency and was placed in a manufacturing job that made medical tubing. When I went to the on site interview, the woman that interviewed me said I’d be running a machine that stretches and bakes the tubing. She was excited I had quality experience and I agreed to try the job.

    On my first day after orientation where they spent a significant amount of time on the fact that you cannot come in with coughs or fevers as per company policy and that as temp agency workers we would just not get the PTO, so fever = stay home nothing bad will happen, I was brought to the department but put in a different job. Basically in the job I would be taking a teflon/isopar mixture and molding it. I observed for the last hour of the day and figured I’d try it.

    My first day in we go over gowning procedures and its just a hairnet, goggles, gown, gloves and booties if you wish. They start having me work the job and its apparent that my 4’9″ self is too small for this position. The tubs of material are over 95 lbs. They are huge. I have to lean inside of these tubs in order to properly scoop it out, and when it gets low I have to pick up the tub so that I can scoop out the remaining material. Needless to say I’m breathing a lot of this in/fumes in. I’m not offered a mask or respirator. The next night I’m doing it again.
    My trainer at this point feels that this is unsafe as I’m also having to stand on a small platform in order to even reach in the tubs and pour into the molds. She and I go to the night manager and tell him its unsafe, citing lifting of the tubs, being too small for the set up, etc. He responds with a shrug and saying all jobs require lifting. He comes by later and takes away one of the double platforms I’m standing on (which to be fair I agree it was not safe) and questions if I should be standing on anything at all. The other senior operators say almost all the women stand on the platforms. He shrugs and leaves. At the end of the night my trainer informs me the material mixture can lead to connective tissue issues, can give first degree burns if on skin, and some operators prefer to wear masks or respirators when doing the job.

    The next night I have to call out. My throat and lungs are on fire. I can’t swallow. I wait a few days to see if it gets better and it doesn’t. I go to urgent care and they agree probably irritation from the fumes and tell me it should clear up in a few days. I email my temp agency and explain I would have never accepted this position if I had been told that was where I was working but that if there was nothing that could be done I’d at minimum would need to see about accommodations for my safety and they get HR to move me.

    The next weekend my shifts come up again and I’m still feeling like my throat is on fire. Still can’t breathe. I manage to work another 2 days before I can’t. It hurts to talk, to breathe, and I have a fever at this point. I call out. Go to the doctor, and get antibiotics and an inhaler to help my lungs. I email the temp agency again letting them know the fever was the deciding factor on calling out and my doctors visit. I get a phone call saying I am no longer employed but that the agency agrees that I can’t work with a fever per company guidelines and because that was the beginning of the CDC saying to stay home if you have a cough and fever. I speak to them some more about the exposure. They again apologise for me being put in the position. I don’t know if this was ever discussed with the company I was working at.

    So now it’s a month later, I still can’t breathe. Two rounds of antibiotics, inhaler use 1-3 times a day, and we’re now doing a 5 day course of steroids that will further complicate my diabetes. Because of this virus the doctors don’t want me even thinking about looking for work. I’m not allowed to go in for an interview. They said to also assume I have Covid-19 on top of this and to stay indoors. They won’t consider another in person visit for another week, and they said if I get worse to go to the ER.

    Everyone’s saying I need to talk to someone with legal knowledge on what to do next. The doctors are even saying I shouldn’t have been allowed to work on that first position without some sort of mask. But they moved me to a different department so they did something right? Is this find a lawyer case? I’m not sure what to do. I’m not allowed to work, DHHS said to try to reopen my SSDI since I left my job to take this job to accommodate medical appointments all week (all of which are now cancelled because of Covid-19). I also can’t claim Unemployment because of that I understand. I understand I was let go because I called out twice in two weeks when I was brand new. And that’s fair. I just don’t think I have a case and my friends/family are pushing me to talk to someone.

    I just don’t see what going to see a lawyer would accomplish. Is there something I’m not seeing?

    1. Red Flags Abound*

      Omg! So many red flags here! If you’re in the USA, you definitely have a law suit against the company that had you working in an unsafe environment. Please report that company to OSHA, please.

      Red flag#1: No mask for a job that gives off fumes that cause connective tissue damage!

      Red flag#2 you’re standing on a platform!

      Red flag#3 you’re handling a machine too big for you to handle safely.

      Red flag#4 being made to life stuff way over your lifting limit.

      Red flag#5 you get sick from the fumes and they fire you!

      Red flag#6 you’re still SICK!

      Get a lawyer and sue them. They will have to cover your medical costs and the fact you can no longer work. Go to a medical specialist PLEASE!

      https://www.osha.gov/

      1. MissMia*

        Wow. Okay. I’m an abuse survivor so I’m always questioning if I’m justness overreacting when I perceive something is wrong. Or that I don’t have enough proof.

        The lady that did my orientation brought up each OSHA violation they had and said that the employee was bitter and retaliating and pretty much ridiculed each person. So I was a little afraid to become her next story. I’ll look and see if I can make contact with a lawyer.

        1. valentine*

          Does workers’ comp not apply to you? You were severely and possibly permanently injured on the job.

          There should be documents (that an attorney will adore) saying that, to do the job safely, the employee needs to wear xyz PPE, be able to reach the bottom of the tub either unassisted or with Q device, etc., plus the risks, including respiratory and reproductive. All this should’ve been provided to you and they should’ve given you a consent form saying you understood the requirements and risks.

    2. MsSolo*

      I hope someone with the relevant expertise sees this, but my first thought is there must be some kind of safety board you could approach. It’s very unlikely that a chemical which could do that kind of damage to you doesn’t have regulations around its usage and what the appropriate safety precautions are. Moving you to another position doesn’t change the fact nobody should have been working the way your were, and the business may well have just done exactly the same to the next temp. I don’t think they’re suggesting you see a lawyer because you were unfairly dismissed, I think they’re talking about seeing a lawyer because the business failed to meet whatever safety requirements are in place and you might be able to sue for damages / health costs etc (and force them to treat future employees better).

    3. submerged tenths*

      I think it would be worthwhile to lay all this out to an employment attorney. If for no other reason than to have backup on reopening your SSDI. Also, your being required to stand on something, and to work with fume-y stuff without being at least *offered* a mask, is possibly something the company should be held liable for.

    4. Hydrangea*

      Call a worker’s compensation attorney – slightly different focus than employment lawyers but it’s exactly the focus you need. Your state bar association can put you in touch with some lawyers. And – that lawyer can help with your SSDI if you need it.

      The company’s actions put you in grave danger – and there is a entire body of study around the fact that this primarily happens to temp workers.

      This article https://progressivereform.org/cpr-blog/a-day-s-work-safety-training-for-temp-workers-would-prevent-many-injuries-and-deaths/ gets into some of the ways that industries like the one you’re describing take advantage of temp workers. (It’s a bit old 2015 but none of the things happening there have stopped in the last five years)

    5. Hydrangea*

      One other thing (my first post is in moderation) and I realized I didn’t adress your actual question because I was so alarmed.

      A lawyer can help you with lots of things – for starters, a worker’s compensation lawyer can help you determine whether you have grounds to sue the company (either one – some states have better protection than others) to cover the cost of all of these medical bills – not just for now but for the long term.
      They can help with the SSDI if you need it (though you sound pretty well versed in that) and they can help make sure that if the company tries to offer you something to make you go away, it’s actually worth the paper it’s printed on.

      You should not deal with a company behaving this way or a temp agency that allowed them to do so without backup. A lawyer is that back up.

      They should also be able to point you towards more resources if/when you fight the company (and I hope you do!)
      Good luck!

      1. Reba*

        To add, many attorneys will offer a free consultation of 30 minutes. They won’t give detailed advice but will listen to your problem and tell you if they think it’s a case to pursue. You can also use this to get a feel for the attorney and whether you would like to work with them.

        I point this out to say that there is really no risk or downside to just talking to a specialist. Talking to the lawyer does not mean you’re automatically going to court or need to lay out a lot of money.

        And I wouldn’t have further conversations with the agency until you’ve talked with that lawyer.

        MissMia, I’m so sorry this happened to. Whatever the legality, it was really shitty. I hope you are on the mend soon.

      2. MissMia*

        Okay I’m definitely going to look into this. It won’t her talking to a lawyer and seeing about it. I’m so bad off I can’t even do housework without being winded. My voice sounds off. I think it was more than irritation.

        I’m afraid to be one of those people to cause trouble but I think I need to pursue this.

        1. Hydrangea*

          I’m glad you’re going to talk to someone!
          You are not causing trouble – you haven’t done anything wrong.
          That woman pretending their osha violations were a disgruntled ex employee sucks.

          Good luck! You deserve to have proper (Long term if necessary) medical care and the support and access you need – and demanding it can be hard and scary but this is their fault not yours.

    6. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      I’m terrified reading this. There’s so many safety violations.

      They’re using TEMPS so that they can take advantage of a vulnerable population, you have less likelihood to know your rights and the safety issues at hand. They didn’t even give you a respirator?! They should have sent you for a respirator fit test the day you started as part of orientation to first let them know you were capable of wearing one, per OSHA guidelines. Then they should have given you the proper frigging PPE.

      They KNEW the consequences and just let you breathe in those fumes and they’ve caused possibly perma damage.

      Talk to an attorney. And talk to the state OSHA leg, don’t bother with the feds side. It may not be called OSHA in your state, ours is through the Labor and Industries division. You will also want to contact your state Worker’s Comp if that exists [Ours is through L&I but others have different entities. Oregon uses SAIF for example. Some places will not have state wide workers comp, you should be able to find out their workers comp through the state labor and industries or security of state registry if necessary.]

      Ring all the bells. Take these people down. They are disgusting.

  100. Boba Feta*

    OMG YOU GUYS. Where to begin:
    1. Got a job (!!!!) (am keeping the one I’ve already been doing, just permanently and with ability to count this past year toward future promotion, thus shortening the promotion clock by 1 year. SCORE!). Thus I join a sub-group of 1.5 FT people within a dept. of 12.
    2. Just learned my colleague, head of our sub-program, WON’T BE COMING BACK NEXT YEAR. (!) Their assigned projects must now be redistributed, but they are outside my Subject Matter Expertise and the other .5 person has a FT job running another sub-program and can’t survive picking up more projects without gaining an assistant to help offset the ongoing administrative drudgery of their own area.
    3. ALSO: the departing member’s assigned administrative duties must also get reassigned, and neither my nor my remaining colleague’s contracts are built for that: We neither have the time nor the salary to just absorb everything this departing person had on their plate.

    My question:
    My remaining colleague and I think this qualifies for “substantial change in job/ responsibilities” and thus warrants a salary conversation for me, and definitely a salary AND job description conversation for them, as well as a formal request for at least a PT assistant for them to offload the more menial and recurring project management stuff so they can turn their attention to taking over the subject matter projects.

    I’ve already found Alison’s advice on how to talk to a boss when job responsibilities have changed, but it was only one page and the vast majority of advice seems to be about how to ask for a raise after one has already been doing the work for a while. My colleague and I can definitely keep this program running between the two of us for the next few years while we engage in top-to-bottom reassessment and redesign, but NOT at our current workloads or job definitions. We’re too Type A and Overambitious we will certainly burn out for taking on too much.

    Advice?

  101. MahoganyTan*

    About a year ago my employer did a benchmarking exercise on salaries and hired an external HR professional to do it (we are pretty small so no HR at such). Every recommendation in the final document was taken on board and implemented which resulted in salary hikes for all employees (yay!)….except the recommendation for my role which was disregarded. For context I work in a standalone role where it would be expected I would encounter this report in full at some point so it did seem strange that it was being withheld from me. It now transpires that my grandboss was trying to ensure I didn’t see it because the recommendation in relation to my role was that it be upgraded in seniority/salary due to the fact I am much more qualified than the job requires and over the few years I’ve been here I’ve taken on a lot of extra tasks/responsibilities beyond what the job was initially designed to entail. I’m mad at the way this was handled and feel pretty down about the fact that the recommendation was the only one not implemented. This has caused some awkwardness among myself/boss/grandboss but I am livid at the same time. Is there any constructive discussion to be had or do I just have to suck it up and hope I can overcome it?

    1. Mill Miker*

      You just got written confirmation from a third party who’s supposed to be an expert in these kind of things that a year ago you were qualified and experienced enough for a higher-level, higher-paying job! Go find it! This place doesn’t deserve you.

    2. Pumpa Rumpa*

      It doesn’t seem like there is much room for a constructive discussion if they were trying to hide this information from you in the first place. They want you to continue to be a high performer while underpaying you. You know what you are worth and what you are capable of. Don’t “suck it up” or “overcome it.” Find a new job that pays you fairly.

    3. MahoganyTan*

      I guess I’m trying to overcome it because my field is pretty specialised and I live in a small city so finding another job will be difficult. When I discovered the content of the report during a meeting with boss and grandboss (they circulated it in error!) they took me aside to try and discredit the person who had compiled the report saying that they didn’t really understand our business/my role and that if I wanted to talk about it at a later date we could but their decision not to implement the recommendation stood…!

      1. Pumpa Rumpa*

        I understand it’s easier said than done to find a new job, but I think it is your best option. If the consultant didn’t truly understand the business then the company wouldn’t have implemented the changes for everyone else. I don’t think you will ever be treated with respect you deserve if you stay there.

      2. Reba*

        Well, they can’t even own their decision so I’m not sure this talking about it at a later date will do anything. But I don’t think you have to just go on in silence on this topic either. Let it be awkward for a while.

        How infuriating!

        Did the report give you any good ideas for your resume, at least?

      3. Bear Shark*

        There’s no harm in looking at what’s out there though. You might even set a limit for yourself that if you don’t see other possibilities for jobs out there within x months, then you might want to overcome it for your own peace of mind staying there.

  102. Fake Old Converse Shoes (not in the US)*

    How do you deal with friction in a (forced) remove team in the current situation?
    This week we had a demo with the client side. The task I was assigned to do relied on other collegue, let’s call him Max, to finish his. It was made clear back when we planned the demo that my task was high risk and that any delay Max could have will impact me, so we decided I would do as much as I could and then he would complete it. As I feared, he was swamped with extra work and my task stayed in the “done” stage for about two precious days. When it was his turn to “merge” his work with mine, he IM’ed me and told me very bluntly nothing I did was usable and that I should’ve work harder, despite the fact there was very little I could do while I was waiting for him to finish. I offered to set up a call to solve it together, he agreed but never suggested a time. I’m still hurt about it, but I try not to get too angry with him since we’re not our best selves considering we’re under quarantine. How would you react if you were wearing my shoes?

    1. juliebulie*

      I would be really mad, and I would tell our boss.

      That’s not very helpful, sorry. But I don’t see why you shouldn’t be angry with him. Max doesn’t seem to understand how “teamwork” works.

      Next time you want to do a call or meeting with someone, though, don’t wait for them to suggest a time. YOU suggest the time. If they don’t agree, tell your manager that Max seems to be too busy to help with this high-risk client demo, perhaps Max’s manager can review Max’s priorities?

  103. RMNPgirl*

    Just found out that everyone who cannot work from home at my company (we’re essential and some people have no choice but to be at work in person) is going to be giving those people extra pay for the month of April. I knew I worked at a pretty good place, but this was a nice unexpected surprise. The extra pay is in the hundreds of dollars so it’s definitely not minor!

    1. Anon Anon*

      That’s great. I think this crisis is definitely going to emphasize and highlight the good employers from the shitty ones.

  104. Anon Pay Day*

    I hope that I’m worried for nothing, but I’m afraid my boss won’t run/make payroll for this pay period due in a few days. I worked for a small business with maybe 20 people total. Any scripts for reaching out if that happens? I don’t believe it would be legal? Located in TX.

    Context: I was told I was being temporarily moved to a 0-hour schedule, since the business couldn’t afford to remain open (major struggles before this hit). I filed for UI, and when my claim came back, it said I had actually been laid off and would be eligible for full benefits. I haven’t heard a word from the owner since before I left on the day I was told I didn’t need to report back until further notice. I’d assume that means the owner told UI I had been laid off? I’m a key-holder (I was the one to lock everything up on the last day, so my boss certainly knows this!), so I would’ve assumed I would’ve been asked to return those if so… Oddly enough, my job could have been done from home (I have worked remotely previously) but someone else is doing my job at the moment.
    I had plenty of other reasons to believe this job & owner was toxic, and I’m really hesitant to rock the boat by reaching out about any of this until I’m (maybe) told to return. I’m just horribly confused and a bit hurt, I think. It’s a small relief because I was looking, but I had a lot of reasons to stick it out at that job for a small stretch of time, so I was conflicted. Not having the option would certainly make that choice.

    1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      Laid off is a very broad term in unemployment terms. This is most likely what they will say as a “Temporary Layoff”, since the company is going to hopefully re-open and take back available employees.

      To ease your fears, I’d reach out and ask them about this coming paycheck. I would assume they’d hopefully have laid everyone off because they knew they’d only have enough for this pay period! Since not paying people won’t fly, even in this pandemic. They can get a small business loan if necessary, that was part of the package that came with the stimulus checks.

      YOu have to be in touch with them to keep your UI claim active if you’re not readily looking for work. So you will need to remember that.

  105. Commuter*

    Re: recognition at work.

    I work on a small team of 3 and I’m struggling with the fact that my specialty area of work just isn’t as visible as my coworkers and this leads to them getting lots of public recognition where me, not so much. I’ll get one on one recognition from people I’m helping, but it does kind of sting for my immediate coworkers to get regular shout-outs while I don’t get the same level of appreciation. I feel torn about this (and a little bratty, honestly) but it feels crappy.

    Are any of you in a similar work situation? How do you cope or reframe this for yourselves? It honestly makes me feel like I’m not doing a good job and even worried about my job security which is ridiculous.

    1. Hazy Days*

      We have this at work – we try to be really open about the fact that team isn’t big profile, to recognise the crucial role they do, and to put forward as many compliments as possible.

  106. Hazy Days*

    Just want to get this mini-rant off my chest!

    One of the senior managers asked in the All Mamagers Meeting what my department (of one person, I.e. me) has done to respond strategically to the coronavirus situation and why we haven’t done X, Y and Z. I was there thinking “I’ve had bloody coronavirus, that’s what my department has been doing.”

    And breathe…

    2. Jules the 3rd*

      “I was conducting in-depth research on the situation, including systemic responses, and then implementing best practices.”

      Your sr mgr sucks. I hope you are feeling much better.

  107. Future Shaper of Minds*

    Before the pandemic, I applied for a degree program to be a teacher. It’s a great program and I’m super excited to start, and everything. The program places you with a school and even guarantees you a job after graduation.

    It’s my dream job! The only thing that worries me is the part of the program where you have to do your practicum (internships or work placement).

    I’m somewhat tech savvy but I worry about how will I participate with students online? How can I make sure to help my future students succeed?

    1. PollyQ*

      When’s the start date for the program? And how long after that would the interactive part be? The situation we’re in now sucks, no doubt, but it’s definitely not going to be permanent. If you don’t start school until next fall, I’d suspect your practicum wouldn’t be any different than normal.

  108. New Fed Here*

    To whomever recommended “Yes Minister” yesterday: I am a fairly new government and have learned so much from watching this.

    1. Brownie*

      Thanks for the reminder, I need to dig that and “Yes Prime Minister” out for a rewatch, especially since my work is doing a re-org and I may need to be a Sir Humphrey Appleby with the new-to-this-workflow management for the first few months until they get past their initial “Let’s change everything!” impulses.

  109. FullTimeEmployee*

    Hi! I’m starting my first post college job in June and just started prepping budget, wardrobe etc…. but I was wondering if anyone has some advice they wish they knew starting their first job?? I want to make a good first impression.

    1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      Ask questions. Don’t just try to fight through figuring it out without asking questions.

      I’ve always been a “listen” and “watch” person, so I didn’t need to be told that. But listen, watch and ask questions to make sure you understand how to do things correctly the first time. But don’t question their processes until you understand them completely. You may think it’s tedious or could be done easier but there’s most likely an end result you haven’t seen yet that requires those steps.

      1. Policy Wonk*

        This. And bring a notebook/pen with you everywhere. Write down assignments and instructions. At the beginning there is way too much information coming in, and without notes it’s easy to forget, particularly detailed instructions.

      2. topscallop*

        This, but also – try to find the answer yourself (in your copious notes) before asking how to do something. I interned in a fast-paced campaign office in college and once got reamed out for asking a clarifying question that it turned out I did have the answer to in my notebook. The supervisor was a bit of a jerk about it, but it was a useful lesson for me. I’ve found in all my subsequent jobs that people respond well when you come to them with not just a question or a challenge, but some ideas for how you might tackle it.

      3. tangerineRose*

        If you have ideas for how to do things better when you’re new, write them down. When you know more about this, some of them may be great ideas (and at least a few won’t be). The perspective you get from being new can give you some good ideas, and this way you let them sit until you can tell if they’d be good.

    2. Zona the Great*

      Take almost nothing personally as almost nothing is at work. Keep notes in meetings and keep a file folder of topics that seem to come up again and again so that when a meeting about said topic is called, you can bring in your file folder and look like a GD champion of organization. Read those notes before the end of each day and take small notes in order to drill it into your memory.

      Know that understanding things at work generally take one full year. Allow yourself to develop understandings without beating yourself up for not being able to make sense of it right away.

    4. Koala dreams*

      1.If you won’t be able to do all your tasks, tell your manager as soon as you know, don’t wait for the deadline.
      2.If you don’t understand something, ask. As a new employee, it’s expected that you will have questions. Some things will take time to understand, so just listen to the answer and do your best.
      3. Everybody makes mistakes, the important thing is to fix them and do better next time.

    5. Jambon-Beurre*

      Don’t take feedback and constructive criticism as personal attacks. It is professional feedback on how to fulfill the duties of your role. Accept it graciously. Unfortunately, I made this mistake early in my career.

  110. Snarflepants*

    I’m updating my resume! Unfortunately, my contract at work changed from a full time role to a part time position. Instead of herding 30 cats, I’m herding 20 cats. The company and duties remain the same. I’m just not sure how I should record the updated contract.

    1. the rain in spain*

      just list both positions under the same heading

      company a
      part time cat herder April 2020-present
      full time cat herder xxx- April 2020

      list accomplishments/etc per usual

  111. ToodleOodleWhordleOrdle*

    Low stakes question:
    My grandboss, who is a very kind and delightful person, created a “Morale Committee” group on Teams so we can all share memes, photos, and positive things from our lives. So far, nobody has posted anything, and I have a hunch that none of my coworkers will really participate because they’re all kind of allergic to enthusiasm. I’d like to post stuff, because I don’t want to see Grandboss left hanging like that. But I don’t actually want to post personal stuff, and my usual taste in memes etc is probably in all the wrong niches– we don’t really have any non-work interests in common, and I don’t want to share anything they would find too weird.
    Does anyone have a good source for, like, bland and wholesome work-appropriate Internet Content for an office crowd that likes football and other normal people stuff?

    1. Amber Rose*

      We have that too. And nobody posts in ours either. xD

      There’s a website called Pleated Jeans that posts wholesome memes every Wednesday. You can probably go back about two or three months worth of Wednesdays and pull some of those.

      They also do daily meme dumps which may or may not have anything you can use, but it’s not a terrible way to kill time to scroll through them.

      1. valentine*

        The people have spoken. Don’t go against the grain unless you want to post for yourself.

    2. Rusty Shackelford*

      Mr. S is a big fan of Sad and Useless (dot com, I guess), and they seem to have some work-appropriate humor.

    4. Coverage Associate*

      I don’t like photography, but I have been trying to take random impersonal pretty pictures to share: a rainbow, a flower, neighborhood kids’ chalk art.

      Though usually a very verbal person, I have failed at some colleagues’ attempt to start a chain email of encouragement. (I think the instigator is too young to remember early chain emails.)

  112. two questions*

    1. My project lead is nice and generally supportive. However, when she makes a mistake she refuses to admit it, and this has caused more tensions between our group and other groups than if she just said, “I’m sorry, I will fix this.” How do I deal, if I can’t directly contradict her?

    2. In general, the people I’ve worked with seem to take offense really easily. For example, one coworker I knew got mad because her boss proofread her report and made some changes, which wouldn’t have bothered me at all. Is this normal? Do I just not understand office politics enough?

    1. PollyQ*

      1. Probably nothing, if she’s above you on the chain of command. Just internally roll your eyes.

      2. Not uncommon, because humans, but no, not normal either. Sounds like you understand things fine.

  113. Anonadog*

    I could use some help with figuring out my next step.
    I was laid off late last year and had some promising leads that dried up when the coronavirus hit. I’m also pregnant and due in November, so I’m just not sure what to do. My field is very competitive, and I doubt that I’ll find work (even temporary) work before I deliver, and I won’t be in fighting shape for some time after. That means I may not work again until spring 2021 at the earliest.
    What should I be doing now to get ready for the other side? I thought about getting my MBA, but application deadlines are already closed and even if they weren’t, I’d be delivering right at the start of the term.

    1. Anon Anon*

      Is there a good professional certification in your industry that you don’t already have? That might be cheaper and more worthwhile than an MBA (which to me only makes sense if you are going to a top 20 business school). Plus, you would probably have more flexibility in studying and testing, and I think it does strengthen your application.

      1. Anonadog*

        That’s a good idea, although I’m not even sure if I want to stay in this field. (I also see “MBA preferred” at my level now, so I think it might help regardless of the school.)

        I’m looking at the next 12 months as an opportunity for me to perhaps pivot or rebrand myself, but I don’t even know how or what I would want to do different.

        Maybe I need a career counselor. Do good ones of those even exist?

      2. Jules the 3rd*

        I found an MBA to be very useful in a career change, though it was not a top 20 school…

        But yeah, certifications or skills are the way to go right now. I took accounting some years before the MBA, and it helped both in talking to Finance people and in the actual MBA accounting class.

  114. bunniferous*

    I have always worked from my home office pretty much so that has not changed-but a couple of nights ago my work computer (a PC) decided that was a great time to have a major malfunction. Called and talked thru the problem with a tech and the money to fix it is not money I have right now, of course. Good news, I have a MacBook Pro I can work from. Bad news, Apple and PC are like from different planets. Good thing my real estate job is slow right now….(I am in my early sixties. I joke I will never get Alzheimers since my poor brain has to keep up with all this tech stuff that comes easy to you young folks. )

  115. Count Boochie Flagrante*

    So, anyone else out there not working from home?

    I’m not a healthcare person, but my industry is considered essential and so I’m still going into the office all day every day as usual, albeit with a heaping helping of social distancing precautions.

    It feels weird being so surrounded by talk about working from home, about major life disruptions, about how different things are, when my day-to-day feels… well, almost unchanged. I’m not grousing, and I know I’m incredibly lucky to be in this position, but it just feel strange and alienating to not be having an experience that seems to be so common for the rest of the community.

    1. Amber Rose*

      Yeah, I can’t really work from home so I’m not. I technically do get one day a week to “work at home” but in reality I just keep an eye on my emails and play video games.

    2. Middle School Teacher*

      I won’t be. I’m on spring break right now, but I’ll be teaching remotely from my school starting next Monday. I have the option of working from home but I’d rather be in my classroom.

    3. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      I am working from home, but I have been for the last six years, so my day-to-day is largely unchanged. My also-WFH housemate is still WFH, my working-outside-the-home husband is still going to work. We don’t have kids. Literally the only thing in the day-to-day that is notably different for me is that I’m actually more likely to have to leave my house now when I have to run errands, just because the delivery services I would normally use are constantly booked fully as far out as they are able to schedule.

    4. Daisy Avalin*

      Yeah, I work at a petrol station, so it’s business as usual for me! Since I work weekend nights, I’m at home during the week to point and laugh at DH’s stoopid clients, and deal with his irritated grumbling when things don’t go well.

      On the other hand, listening to him do his job, I could do that type of job from home so easily!! May try after the pandemic is over to see if I can get a WFH role, as cashiering (especially night shift) is starting to wear on me after 6 years!

    5. Construction Safety*

      At work. Essential industry (you want TP next month. We gotta work.). I could do nearly all my job from home right now, but we’re all getting “need to know what you’re doing” push back from someone who has no idea what I’m doing now.

    6. Jules the First*

      I am working from home, but the location is pretty much the only thing that’s changed (and to be honest, 80% of my meetings already had someone remote in them, it’s just that now that someone is likely to be me). My boss was moaning this morning in our 1:1 that her boss is insisting she get a new project off the ground six weeks faster than planned because “everyone is sitting around twiddling their thumbs” and she and I shared a rare bonding moment of quasi-hysterical laughter when I asked who these thumb-twiddlers were and could we join them…

    7. RobotWithHumanHair*

      I can’t, as I have a production floor/warehouse gig. And we’ve been supplying items to hospitals as of late, so our team of 7 back here is essential. Meanwhile, everyone up in the front office is cozy at home. At least it’s a little quieter, I suppose.

    8. BeeJiddy*

      My job is in food production which means I’m an essential worker so I still work outside the house 40 hours a week. Given I work with food, hygiene measures were already very thorough with the WHO handwash process standard procedure but now we’re just sanitising frequent touch points constantly. We’ve all been getting this weird dry throat symptom which we think is related to constantly inhaling alcohol based sanitiser.

      We try to practice distancing but it’s extremely difficult and sometimes impossible. We now also work in dedicated teams in very specific areas in the factory whereas we used to be frequently moved to avoid RSI and boredom. So now if someone gets sick, we know they only had contact with x people in y area. I haven’t seen 95% of my coworkers in weeks, it’s a bit weird! Luckily I really like the other two people on my team and we work well together. Someone got fired because they weren’t taking current precautions seriously enough, and while I feel bad for them losing income at this time, they gave the company no choice. Our company has been really great with this whole situation and I appreciate it.

      People like that really need to understand the pressure essential workers are under right now. We have a lot of responsibility on our shoulders, to our coworkers, to the families etc we come home to, to the consumers we make products for. I bike commute and am constantly observing people who are very obviously socialising in ways they shouldn’t right now according to my country’s lockdown rules (NZ) and it honestly makes me so angry.

      So yeah, normal, but very not normal at the same time.

    9. Retail not Retail*

      You know it!

      And I don’t know about other regions, but my commute traffic hasn’t lessened at all. (But I work 7-3 so maybe people with that type of schedule are in “essential” jobs?)

      Today I dumped sand in a hole that turtles will dig up in a couple months.

  116. AnotherFrustratedJobSeeker*

    Discouraged by my job search. A few years ago I was about halfway through my accounting degree (as a mid-life career change) and trying to get a Staff Accountant role. I got consistent feedback that I needed to complete my degree before I was likely to be hired as a Staff Accountant, but I was hired into an entry level accounting role (AR) and I’ve done really well. I’ve been there almost 3 years and I completed my degree last fall, so I’ve started looking for a Staff Accounting role again. Now I’m getting feedback that my salary expectations are too high because I don’t have enough general ledger accounting experience, I only have AR experience, and I’m unlikely to be hired as a staff account unless I am willing to take a $5K to $10K pay cut (which I’m not, though a lateral move is fine). There are a LOT of Staff Accounting roles in my area that advertise salaries I’d be perfectly happy with – but they also want people who have 1 to 2 years of general ledger and month end close experience and/or public accounting experience.

    If you work in accounting and have been engaged in the hiring process, I’m open to advice on how to strengthen my candidacy. Otherwise, I mostly needed to vent. I went back to school with the goal of “become a staff accountant.” That was 5 years ago and I feel like it’s still out of reach despite finishing my degree and getting 2+ years of entry level experience in accounting and having 10+ years of professional work experience in general. I feel like I did everything I’m “supposed” to do, and the universe is still telling me it wasn’t enough. I think I might also be disadvantaged because I have an Associate’s in Accounting. I do have a BA in a completely unrelated liberal arts field, which I do include on my resume.

    Note: I have made my goals known to my current manager in unmistakable terms, so I am not seeking advice on how to deal with gaining more knowledge within my current role. I am, again, doing the right things (making my goals clear, receiving mentoring, volunteering for additional work, etc).

    1. AnotherAlison*

      Ugh, that does sound frustrating. I’m not an accountant, but I’m familiar with the field because my mom worked in it for 30 years, and I’ve worked fairly closely with our accountants at my job.

      I do think it’s more challenging to move up the ranks when you have a non-traditional background. My mom did the accountant work you talk about (gen ledger, month-end closes) for the second half of her career and was the accountant at her site when her location was acquired and her boss moved up to controller at the parent site. She never had the title, though. She didn’t have a degree at all. Can you get a CPA with the degree you have? Even if you don’t need it, I think a lot of companies like to hire people who could theoretically get it. I work for a F500 company, and the accounting staff for my division have bachelors in accounting or finance, and the controller has a masters in accounting.

      The good news is you DO have options. Would it be possible to take a pay cut and do some other work on the side short term? It seems like the pay cut would likely be short-lived, and you would make more after a few years in the staff acct role than if you did nothing and stayed where you are. I would also do that before I looked at more accounting education. Can you find a different company who will legitimately let you advance to staff accountant, if you hire into the same role you have now?

      What is your unrelated degree in? Sometimes that can be a foot in the door. Like, if your bachelors was in hospitality, that plus your associates might make you a more attractive option for a hotel chain staff accountant than a manufacturing company staff accountant.

    2. Melody Pond*

      I feel like I did everything I’m “supposed” to do, and the universe is still telling me it wasn’t enough.

      Frankly… I don’t think what you’ve done is enough, given the goals you’ve described.

      An associate’s in accounting doesn’t sound like the right education for a staff accountant position like you’re describing. I would expect that an associate’s degree would be comprised of mostly lower-level classes (100 and 200 level courses) whereas a staff accountant position would require a bachelor’s degree in accounting/business administration – which would come with more advanced classes (300 and 400 level) that likely dive more in depth into more advanced business and accounting topics.

      This higher level education would definitely be required for an entry level (straight out of school) public accounting position – so if you’re applying for positions that want public accounting experience, I’m not surprised that you’re not having luck.

      I did the same thing you did, going back for a mid-life career change, and I also had an unrelated liberal arts degree. But a local university in my area had a “post-bac accounting certificate” program available. It was made up of about 50-60 credits worth of 300 and 400 level accounting classes and it required me to already have a bachelor’s degree. It was essentially like going back and doing a different major – and at the end of everything, it ensured that I had enough credits to sit for the CPA exam. I was able to gain a staff accountant position in a public accounting firm at the end of it.

      I’d recommend either:
      1) Take one of the staff accountant roles that would involve a pay cut and try to work up from there, or
      2) Pursue additional schooling, like in a post-bac accounting program that would give you a higher level of accounting education

      1. AnotherFrustratedJobSeeker*

        I am not applying for Staff Accounting roles that want public accounting experience; I don’t have that because my current company isn’t public. I am applying to jobs where my experience matches what the job description is advertising: Degree in Accounting, 1 to 2 years of accounting experience, expert level Excel, etc.

  117. Batgirl*

    You could be arrested for that here too. One of the first things the UK did when we went into lockdown was to give police powers to enforce. If you gather publicly here you’ll get moved on. This is way worse.

  118. Emphibian*

    At the beginning of March I had an on-site, all-day interview for my dream job. I still have not heard anything back from my prospective employer and understand that things are very uncertain right now. When is the best time to follow up (if at all) and what is the best way to word my message? I want to check in but I don’t want to seem like a nag or insensitive jerk. I completely understand why things cannot operate normally right now but would really like to know where they are in the process even if the answer is that everything is on hold or if I have been taken out of the running.

    1. Friday afternoon fever*

      Alison posted a script for following up a day or so ago. It’s the third under “Recent posts” in the sidebar. Timing – now is fine.

    2. fhqwhgads*

      I’m pretty sure Alison literally posted scripts for this yesterday as a standalone post. Use those.

  119. Anonymous for this*

    My partner was laid off this week and my hours and pay have been reduced. It’s been a rough week.

    His company was very toxic and he’s been looking for work for literally years with no luck. So, given the current state of the world, I really fear that he is going to find nothing. He didn’t finish college and this seems to have been a real impediment for him (we also do not have the funds for him to finish college, though since now he has nothing but time we did consider it.)

    We’re fortunate to have some savings, and I’m grateful for the extra unemployment because of the stimulus, and that he was able to get his application through on the website when many people here cannot. But this is still terrifying and I wanted to say that out loud somewhere.

    And, a question: He does have an associates degree, which he earned probably 30 years ago from a small rural community college that no longer exists and closed down many years ago. How on earth would we begin to get a transcript or any sort of records so that he can see whether anything he took would be able to be put toward a bachelor’s? It seems to us like he would just need to start from scratch if the school cannot be contacted? It’s been so long I am not even certain he, like, still has his diploma. What do people in this situation do?

    1. Jules the 3rd*

      The state community college office may have the records or be able to provide guidance, but the classes from a 30yo degree are probably not transferable.

    2. Bear Shark*

      It may be worth checking with the state dept of higher education in the state the college was located in to see if they have the records. Sometimes when colleges close they transfer records to the state or another institution.

      Even if the classes aren’t directly transferable he might still be able to get credit for electives, you won’t know until you can get a transcript and talk with the enrollment office at schools he’s considering.

    3. MissBliss*

      If he completed his Associate Degree, that state *may* have a transfer program that guarantees access to a state school upon completion of the degree. That program may be time sensitive (for graduate after Dec. 1, 2017, for example) but it may not. Depending on how it is set up, that may allow a transfer of just a bulk number of credits, with skills testing to determine placement in classes at the 4-year state school, but it may require a transcript. However, they might be able to work with you. Good luck!

    4. Melody Pond*

      If he completed the associate’s degree, it is likely transferable, no matter how old it is. I used to work for a college, and if students with transfer credits had those credits in the form of a degree, we could take it no matter how old it was. But if it was just classes without a degree, those couldn’t be older than, I think, 7 or 8 years. I think @Bear Shark’s ideas for how to go about obtaining transcripts are solid.

  120. bubbleon*

    I’m over working from home, but I appreciate what our new HR team is doing to help everyone out. The old team was a little disconnected and didn’t do much to consider the “human” side of things, but I sat in on a nearly hour long discussion this week about how to make sure our *people* are okay, not just how to keep the worker bees working. It made me feel better than most of the other news this week, I hope others are seeing similar.

  121. Drtheliz*

    I’ve had *such* an unproductive week :/

    I think I need to put my Site-Blocker extensions from work onto my home computer. This absolutely will be annoying for “leisure laptop” but I think it’s necessary for now. I do not want to go back to my PhD days, when I was drifting and unproductive and miserable, but I didn’t even get three weeks to set in good habits at NewJob – it seems that a decent rate of work lasted about a week and a half :(

    Next week has maybe three work video meetings, so that might help me to be a bit more “accountable”? Here’s hoping, anyway.

    1. Reba*

      I hope the meetings help. I had a few check in meetings and good work sessions over video this week, and I actually felt really good after each. Like, oh! we are actually doing something! and not alone!

    2. tangerineRose*

      When I’m working, I think maybe the company can tell what websites I’m using. That helps a lot.

      1. tangerineRose*

        The stuff I read online isn’t embarrassing, but I don’t want to be on facebook when I should be working.

  122. Dr. Lovman*

    Hey good afternoon. I’ve been in my current job for a professional services firm for about 3 years after finishing my undergrad, doing mainly data and analytics projects for various clients.

    I’ve learned what I like about the job-solving data problems, coaching and guiding less experienced team members; and what I detest about the job—managers and clients who swarm like vultures demanding to know when work will be done and what’s taking so long to do it, colleagues who fill up team meetings debating trivial points, etc, as well as the looming responsibilities that await me if I am up for promotion to manager over the next couple of years—mainly being the person who explains work and work progress to those ever-curious clients. I’d say the balance is about 50-50 between the good and the bad.

    I’m curious to hear some success stories from those in the community about how you dealt with being in a job with some good parts and some distressing parts, but didn’t really feel like they had found their calling. Did you find something you could change within your current job to enjoy it more? Did you switch to a similar role with a different company? Did you switch fields entirely? Did you go back to school as a means of changing fields?

    1. Thany*

      My previous job was like this. On paper it was a great job, great pay and benefits, and got me out of a really toxic job before that. I loved the work with clients, but I realized I did not like the office culture and my supervisor was a workaholic who wanted me to have the same work ethic as her. As well as my role wasn’t what I expected it to be. It took me 9 months to realize that this wasn’t the right fit for me. I transitioned to a different company that works with a population of people I’m passionate about working with and an office with a better work/life balance.
      You have to decide what your deal breakers are. I realized that the office culture and work/life balance was something I needed to thrive. You have to decide what that looks like for you.

  123. Dee Dee*

    I had naively hoped that when everyone transitioned to working from home, we’d quickly realize how many of our meetings are unnecessary and could be resolved without assembling a massive group for a half hour or an hour and instead could be dealt with with a quick email or Slack message.

    In this belief, I was incorrect.

    2. Alex*

      Right? How many meetings are being called now “just so we can connect” AGGHHH.

      So. Many. More. Useless. Meetings.

    3. tangerineRose*

      Sometimes it’s possible to be listening to the meeting (mostly) while doing some work. Or maybe get a small weight (or a can of soup or something) that you can use for weight lifting a little while it’s going on.

  124. weird of hermiston*

    How do you adapt to a new boss whose management style is opposed to your preferred style? I had a great rapport with my previous boss, very collaborative, open, honest and collegial. Oldboss got promoted and they hired Newboss but Newboss likes to direct people on how to do things and tell her decisions instead of asking for input. Like this morning they finally decided to make all staff work from home when she informed me of a process my team was going to do. That is the process I’d been pushing for the past 2-3 weeks trying to get us all working from home. Yeah, I know that’s the process I suggested because our team has been making sure we’re prepared for when this happens.

    I am chafing a bit at this for a few reasons but overall I think it’s a management style mismatch. I like a collaborative relationship with my manager and she likes to delegate and dictate. What can I do to make this easier?

    1. Your Cousin is a Wet Sandwich*

      If you like a collaborative relationship, then react as if you are in one.
      NB: We are going to be implementing process. Here’s how it will work, explains thing you know.
      You: Great! that is exactly what I was hoping last week when I discussed this with you! I’m glad you were able to get company on board and the directions seem perfect to get our group up and running while we WFH.

      Keep in mind new boss might be less collaborative because she is new. Lots of new bosses are less collaborative because they are afraid it seen as dependence or weakness on their part (just like a lot of new bosses don’t know how to manage successful performers, they only know how to identify and try to eradicate ‘areas of weakness’.)

      Maybe make and effort to praise your teammates for their collaborative and supportive work – then she might recognize that the culture of the team is collaborative and supportive.

      1. weird of hermiston*

        That is super helpful! I think I have been approaching it like this but we tend to run into each other’s sentences and I could be more complimentary. I don’t try to interrupt, but I am much more direct and she very indirect. So I sometimes step in with enthusiasm to talk and accidentally interrupt her. I also realize often that I’m not sure what she’s hinting at and guessing doesn’t help.

        Newboss does have a lot of people to tend to and is definitely an eradicator type. She is very quick to assume something’s done in bad faith, it seems. Some of her comments have been shocking in their assumptions about people. I have been trying to praise my teammates, but will do that more so she sees how we cooperate and that’s how the group works best.

  125. WorkLifeBalanceTryYouWill*

    My New Years resolution was to take a serious look at my stress (as diagnosed by medical professionals) and my work/life balance. The unbalance being all of my own doing except that I was on tenure track and there is NO work/life balance while on that for me. I thought I could do more life but then there was going up for Full. And then I would get a balance. Good news I go the promotion.
    Man plans God Laughs. Now I am WFH and the first two weeks of this- no work life balance. classes are on-line, supporting graduate students finishing their degrees, seemingly endless zoom meetings and public service responsibilities. Blood pressure high, anxiety high, self-care etc super low. I’m in three at-risk population groups.
    So for the past 3 days.
    Prioritizing exercise, online and stationary bike. Will have a once a week on-line trainer.
    Setting aside daily time for household chores and blocking my work schedule.
    Eating a real sit-down lunch everyday with non-work related materials- AAM
    Setting realistic expectations. Working with graduate students so that they can graduate this semester, yes. Zoom committee meeting- decline.
    Going off-line at a scheduled time everyday.
    Taking total off-line one 1/2 day a week.
    Shutting off my computer and walking away from it at a scheduled time everyday.
    Taking the whole weekend off of work. (wish me luck, I will check in tomorrow)

    1. Overwhelmed*

      Ugh yes I can relate. I am WFH also. I actually called out sick today mostly for my mental health but I was also asked to come in physically for a brief project and I was just like no. I am getting calls and texts on my cell and I am like ugh do I answer or not? I am taking sick time but there is so much pressure to be available and feel like you can’t even take a sick day when you are feel awful mentally and physically.

    2. Reba*

      Sounds like you have a good plan!

      If you are teaching undergrads, consider scaling way back on the expectations for work and for contact, going asych if possible. Students will appreciate it.

        1. WorkLifeBalanceTryYouWill*

          Thank you. Good new bad news. Promotion yea! Probably no raise given the circumstances.

    3. WorkLifeBalanceTryYouWill*

      The other thing I am doing is putting blocks of time on my calendar, then if I do not do that thing, I moved it immediately to next week instead of pressuring myself to complete today.

  126. anon for this*

    I’m leaving my job today and my company hasn’t sent out a notification to stakeholders that I’m leaving. The company is going through a lot of turmoil, separate from/ in addition to the coronavirus stuff, and some of the turmoil was on a project that I used to manage. None of the turmoil is my fault, but I’m concerned that if the company doesn’t send out a nice notification saying I got another position elsewhere, that it will look like I got fired. We also just underwent a restructure where a bunch of people got laid off, so that’s another factor making it look like I was fired. Its important to me that everybody knows I left on good terms as these people are my future professional network. I also want to say goodbye personally to a few trusted stakeholders. Should I just send an email to some of the more trusted people? Or just suck it up and put out an announcement on my LinkedIn and not worry about what my company says or doesn’t say (and when)?

    1. Friday afternoon fever*

      Use your out-of-office reply to explain you’ve left and provide info for who to contact instead. And sure, unless you think it would be really poorly received, give some of your closest contacts a heads-up especially if otherwise they’ll expect to be able to reach out to you at your company

  127. just a random teacher*

    I am so sick of how my state and my district are handling this. It’s a weird hybrid “everything is business as usual” and “nothing is going to work for everyone, so we not really going to try to figure out a plan that will mostly work”.

    So, for example, we’re still supposed to turn in quarter 3 grades next week, even though students haven’t had a week of “real school” since the first half of March, and we weren’t told to resume graded activities with them until next week or even the week after. Um. That’s about 1/3 of the quarter that we just missed with no warning, and I’m not really sure how I’m supposed to give kids a meaningful letter grade at this point since my class really wasn’t structured to output meaningful grades at any random point but rather with a mix of formative and summative assignments designed to assess what they knew so far at specific checkpoints based on the curriculum and the school calendar (think something like 2/3rds of the groups have presented their summative projects so far and we’re still figuring out what the remaining groups should do, and that was the biggest project of the quarter, although that’s not my actual specific problem). We still have no guidance on whether time will be made up at the end of the year, or if we’re going to adjust any of the regular rules for seniors, or any of the things I need to know to make some sort of plan for the rest of the term and communicate it to parents and students.

    Bleh. I really wish we’d just go self-paced and pass/fail for the term, but it sounds like they’re not even considering that as an option.

  128. Alex*

    Anyone else’s company talking out of both sides of their mouth at the same time?

    Messages from leadership:
    Take care of yourselves! Make sure to step away, take breaks. Here’s a yoga video!
    We expect you to adhere to deadlines as usual, and in fact it is extra important that you do.
    Be extra gentle with yourself. Here’s an article about slowing down! Don’t expect to be at your best!
    We’re slashing our budget for X, Y, and Z, so we can no longer use those shortcutting services. Do it yourself/ do without.
    What books are everyone reading in all your extra time? Everyone gather for a Zoom coffee break to discuss and connect!
    Here’s a bunch of extra COVID19-related projects. Please fit them in on top of your increased workload.
    But remember, don’t work too much!

    UGH.

    2. !*

      LOL! This is my company to a T. They are all rah-rah regarding Health and Safety but then have people still working out of the office and construction going on! During that time, a temp working in the building tested positive for Corona virus. So now they are having the floor she worked on cleaned and the people who were working there quarantined and working from home. This NEVER should have happened in the first place. They could have delayed some processes for 14 days so no one was on that floor, but nope, they did not.

    3. James*

      I’ve been a safety lead on projects of various sizes for ten years now. This is exactly how safety programs work. “We want you to do what you need to be safe! But don’t actually do it because that costs money.” The cynic in me says that the reason they do this is so that when something bad happens they can point to the lip service they’ve paid to safety and say “See, we have procedures in place, Jake just chose not to follow them. It’s therefore HIS fault and we don’t owe him a cent.”

    4. Overwhlemed*

      Yes all day everyday.
      I work in health care. I am in a nonpatient care role fulltime now but still work prn in the ED on weekends and this is how it always is even outside a pandemic which makes current events even more troubling.

  129. Person from the Resume*

    Stupid local business. I love snoballs and loved (past tense) my local snoball stand, but they are still open because they claim to be an essential business.

    Yesterday they posted a photo of 5 boy (don’t look like brothers) all around 10-13 smiling, holding snoballs, and standing next to their bikes basically within a 6 foot radius so totally violating social distancing rules. They posted the photo with the hashtags #staysafe, #staydistanced, #quarantinetreats.

    Sigh! Stupid criminals/lawbreakers. If you’re going to break the rules, don’t post a photo on facebook with the rules being violated. And they haven’t taken the post down, but they deleted my comment and at least one other person’s calling out the obvious violation of social distancing they’re encouraging.

    Also where the heck are these 10-13 year old’s parents? If your kid is going to violate social distancing rules while playing with his friends, you need to supervise him even if normally you can let him roam the neighborhood without worry.

    1. Jedi Squirrel*

      Is it possible for you to report them? This is ridiculous.

      We have the same problem here. Apparently every doctor or nurse out there might suddenly find tacos or vinyl signs completely necessary. It’s ridiculous.

      1. Person from the Resume*

        I’m trying to figure that out. We can call 3-1-1 to report gatherings, but I don’t know when people are gathering there. I do think, though, a dessert shop should not even be allowed to call itself essential. It isn’t a restaurant serving real food.

  130. MyCorona*

    So my firm is all WFH (we have been for the past couple of weeks). It has been an adjustment for all and the technology is wonky (at least it seems like my programs each choose one day a week where they misbehave and then the next day it’s another one). That’s mostly been going okay.
    But things are taking a little longer to do, (see: technology issues) and bosses will send things that need doing out very late in the day sometimes, and then get miffed when we can’t finish what they need before we have to clock off (they cut our OT last week). Then this week, they cut our pay 10% – indefinitely.
    I’m trying to train a new hire remotely as well as keep up with my regular role (she started days before the WFH mandate went down). She was doing great at first but is now making some minor (but several) errors and a few major ones. I’m not sure if it is because she is rushing, or if she is nervous. What is a delicate way to have that conversation with her? It’s hard to train this way – we’re in difficult times right now.

  131. FormerFirstTimer*

    Hi All, I was just wondering how everyone’s company is handling check-ins? I know it’s important to stay connected with everyone working from home, but we’ve been doing conference calls every day. While I’m not strictly opposed to them, they generally turn into 1 1/2 conversations that really only 2 or 3 people need to discuss. Prior to the pandemic, we would have bi-weekly staff meetings that were more likely than not canceled. I’m losing so much time to these!

    1. Jedi Squirrel*

      We’re not doing check-ins and I am so much more productive. I work with really chatty people.

      Mostly we keep track of things over email and that seems to be working.

    3. Ranon*

      I’m checking in once a week with my boss and less often with the whole team (two so far, mainly to do team check ins regarding logistics and regulatory updates). Daily is a lot!

    4. James*

      My official manager is also working under me on….6 projects? 7? I forget exactly. The joys of matrix management grafted into a more rigid system. Another of my managers has always had the rule “No news is good news”. I have project managers, but we communicate so much that scheduling time to chat is superfluous. Frankly I’m communicating more with people now than I did before all this insanity!

    5. Nessun*

      We have two weekly checkins (Monday and Thursday) and they are strictly No Business, so it’s just a roundtable of how people are (if they want to talk) and general chat. It’s capped at half an hour (we could go longer if someone needed it, but if anyone appeared to be in crisis, that would prompt a separate 1:1 call, not be brought up in the checkin itself).

    6. Bear Shark*

      That’s basically what my company is doing. In the office we had bi-weekly staff meetings when they weren’t cancelled. Now we have a conference call every day and most of it could be an email.

  132. Thany*

    Just like everyone else during the pandemic, I am now starting to WFH. Our company does NOT allow WFH before this so this is definitely a unique situation, so I’m trying to make the most out of it. My work has slowed down considerably because my role is similar to a job coach for a special population, and so many businesses being closed prevents my clients from being hired. So far, I stay dedicated to my work space and keep myself available for emails and calls. I don’t have any children, so my focus can be purely on work. But with being home, is it okay to do a chore here and there? Like putting in laundry or a load of dishes? And where is the line of doing too much and acceptable to do at home? TIA!

    1. NGL*

      It is absolutely okay to do some chores around the house while WFH! I wouldn’t paint a room, but what you describe is quick to do, and easy to interrupt should there actually be a pressing phone call. I still have a steady stream of work and get up to do similar things (and I have a kid so I’m also taking breaks to have lunch with him, read a story before naptime, etc – my husband is the usual full-time stay-at-home caregiver so luckily I can focus on work when necessary). If I’m going to be away from my computer for more than 15 minutes or so I’ll make sure to have my phone on me to keep an eye on emails, but that’s it.

    2. James*

      Think of it this way: How often in the office did you stop by someone’s cube just to chat? Or get caught up in a conversation at the water cooler/coffee pot with a colleague? How often do you re-arrange your work space? It’s human nature; we can focus for about 90 minutes before our brains need a break. If the chore’s not any more intensive than a chat with a colleague, go for it. Maybe use the time to mull over some problems if you want, but really, it’s a mental break. I’ve found that many of my best ideas come from this sort of thing.

      Secondly, it’s important to stand up and move around during the day. At the office it’s easier, as there are people around. At home it’s super-easy for some folks to fall into the “I must be at my computer at all times” mentality. Pretty much every medical study says that’s pretty much the third worst thing to do to your body (behind smoking and overeating to the point of morbid obesity).

      1. CatMintCat*

        We have been told we must be at our computer and responsive at all times through our normal working day, even though our normal job is not sedentary in any way. We’re all going crazy!

  133. Rain*

    I work in community mental health, our workers have a certain amount of billable productivity they are required to meet, however they are hourly employees, not fee-for-service. Since we are all WFH now and all services are delivered via telehealth, the agency has decided that it will not pay people their full hours if they do not meet their full productivity. So for example you are normally required to have 30 billable hours out of a 40 hour week, if you only manage to bill 15 hours you will only get paid for 20 hours and have to use PTO or take unpaid time to cover the rest. They are also telling people in this situation they are not eligible for unemployment because technically their hours have not been cut. I am….just at a loss for words and wondering if this can possibly be legal?

    1. PollyQ*

      IANAL or any kind of expert, but my understanding is that if your paid hours have been cut and you’re a regular employee (i.e., not a contractor), then yes, you’re eligible for unemployment. IDK what your employers are talking about by saying that ‘technically’ your hours haven’t been cut. If you’re working fewer hours, and only getting paid for that smaller number of hours, then what could it possibly mean that they haven’t been cut?

  134. MeguminDoppel*

    Avatars in chat apps

    What kinds of avatars have you seen in the chat/email/etc apps at your organization? Do you judge anyone for what they use? I just changed mine in Microsoft Teams to an anime girl – it’s just her face, and it’s pretty tame (she’s smiling and has short brown hair like mine, I picked it because it was the best “cartoon” rendering of myself that I could find), but I’m feeling…self-conscious about it. And this is after I had a ferret wearing a hat. So everyone is used to me using funny animal pics as my avatar, and it’s extremely common to have cartoon renderings of people as their avatars. I just hadn’t seen “anime” style before. For reference, I work in the IT dept of a state university, and we’re pretty casual on a whole. It’s unusual for someone to actually use real picture of themselves as their avatar.

    1. LilPinkSock*

      At my company, most people either have their real pictures or one of those bitmoji versions of themselves. One or two have a pet. I’m also at a pretty casual tech company! I don’t think your avatar would stand out as strange.

    2. Mill Miker*

      I think anime avatars have a bad reputation on social media because they tend to be used by new, anonymous-ish accounts that are just out to harass people. Or by people who think liking anime makes them smarter and more cultured than everyone else. Or any number of other things that are really “first impression” issues.

      If you’re using one with a group of people who already know you, I’d imagine it would be a non-issue. Especially when the image resembles you.

    3. Grace*

      Our Slack has a lot of cartoon or anime characters (including my HoD), photos of people (but not headshots) people’s pets, random meme images, and a lot of people have just kept the auto-given coloured head. I use the cartoon anthropomorphised tram that my city uses in public transport status updates. (They update the picture based on the situation – he says “beep beep” when the update is that the tram is stuck in traffic, and put him in a scarf when there’s snow on the line. It’s adorable. I hope no-one is judging me for it.)

    4. MeguminDoppel*

      Thanks everyone! I’m a big anime fan myself, which is one reason I chose this particular character…and also probably why I’m self-conscious about all the possible perceptions of using an anime girl picture. It’s likely that no one really gives a crap, and no one is really thinking about all those associations that I might be thinking of.

    5. Nicki Name*

      If funny animal pics are fine, I don’t see why there would be a problem with anime characters.

  135. LilPinkSock*

    Hello! I am fairly new in my first-ever EA/Office Manager role, and my manager has asked me to consider some KPIs for my position. Do you all have any suggestions? Thank you!

      1. LilPinkSock*

        Yes, we talked through a few but I wanted to provide some more. I work for a small tech company, support two executives directly and indirectly work with several others, coordinate travel for all employees, assist HR with recruitment, and complete logistical tasks for four trade shows a year. I also have office manager responsibilities but do not oversee my own budget.

        1. SomethingCleverHere*

          One of the KPIs I set for all my secretaries is recording high-quality minutes for all my meetings and having them to me within 24 hours. That’s essential in your role.

          1. LilPinkSock*

            Thank you! My position is not a secretarial one, though, and recording minutes isn’t a responsibility. I agree that this would be an excellent KPI for a person whose role does include it!

    2. Zona the Great*

      Please give me more info on the firm if you can without giving up too much info. First thoughts include customer service KPIs but I need to know more about who your customers are even if just internal customers.

      1. LilPinkSock*

        Hm, we are a small tech company that provides web services and other solutions to manufacturers and retailers in a specific industry (it’s really niche, so forgive me if I’m explaining poorly–more than that and I would probably identify my company!). As noted above, I primarily support my CEO and EVP and also work very closely with our marketing and sales teams on a variety of projects. My role isn’t directly customer-facing, but I support those who are!

    3. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      I had to google what “KPI” even means…

      Sadly I’d have to literally be within your position to start to think about what those would be for you. I googled about them and your position and theres some chats about it online that may be helpful for you.

      I don’t come from that kind of corporate world so it all seems like hogwash that this is a thing that’s happening to you tbh.

      1. LilPinkSock*

        Oh no, I’m actually glad my manager and I had the conversation! I’m the kind of person who thrives within even the loosest of structures, and because I’m new to the corporate world (spent 12 years in non-profits), new to the industry, and new as an EA, these guidelines I’m setting up for myself with her oversight will be extremely useful.

        Thank you so much for taking the time to hit the Google-fu for me! :-)

  136. AnonyNurse*

    Experienced public health nurse. Have responded to (much smaller, obviously) outbreaks and disasters before. Done all of this professionally. In and out of workforce for the last 9 months for a variety of reasons, but was full time in the field less than a year ago, and then moved. Ready to get in the game for real. With expert level experience.

    Cannot find a job. Everyone is so damn overwhelmed they can’t even ask for help. I am frustrated. I have all these useful skills and I’m sitting on the couch with my cat and my crocheting. Putting in literally dozens of applications in multiple areas (mine, neighboring states, the feds). No rejections. Just crickets.

    1. Alex*

      That is so frustrating!

      I’ve heard of healthcare workers getting laid off around here, due to the hospitals cancelling all the things they make the most money on. And it’s not like I’m in a place with not a lot of coronavirus–one of the worst places in the country, actually. It’s so crazy.

      I did see in my area that one of the sites where they set up a field hospital, they were looking for health care volunteers. If you want to get in and help, that might be a good way to do it and also bolster your resume? Not sure where you are, but the call for volunteers was I think in Worcester, MA, where they built a makeshift hospital. If they are building one near you that might be a place to look, as those are going to have to be staffed from scratch I would assume.

  137. Chronic Overthinker*

    I’m considered essential in my line of work so I am the “only” person in the office. I’ve been told by my direct report to work half-days to make sure the mail gets picked up, sorted, scanned and emailed to the appropriate staff. I also do administrative tasks for other staff on occasion. However, I still am getting paid for full time hours. How do I adjust my workload when everyone else is working “full-time” from home? I want to make sure I am there for other staff, but also want to respect my supervisor’s request of only working half-days. I do stay in the office until all my work is complete and because of the nature of my work, I cannot work from home either. Advice?

    1. Fiona*

      If I understand you correctly, you feel guilty that you’re being paid full time to work half time? This is the kind of situation where I really wouldn’t worry about it. You’re doing a huge service to the people you work with and taking on the risk of going to work. Consider it hazard pay and just focus on getting stuff done and staying safe.

      2. Chronic Overthinker*

        Yeah, I guess I do feel guilty. I don’t want to be knocked for not being as productive as everyone else. I do see your point about hazard pay, though. I am putting myself at risk actually going to work. Thanks for that.

  138. Majestic Space Whale*

    I had my Very Important video interview i asked about last week and it went… slightly strange. The interviewers very very pleasant, but they, like, didn’t ask me much? They asked about my job history (nothing about specific positions or experience), why I found the role interesting and why I felt it was the right move for me, and what was my timeline for leaving my current job, but that was literally it and the rest of the time they just encouraged me to ask questions. I did, but I still can’t quite figure out whether the talk actually went good (they felt they knew about my experience enough already from my previous interview with a recruiter and that I was qualified) or very very bad (they did not feel it was worth it going deep with me). This was my first time interviewing internationally, so possibly this can be a cultural difference in interviewing as well. So I guess I’m asking… is this a regular way things go with interviewers from the USA? Is it actually weird? Am I just freaking out?

    1. Jambon-Beurre*

      Like many of us, they may have been thinking about this pandemic and its effects. I wouldn’t take it personally but would continue to follow up as usual (thank you email or card, etc.).

  139. dinoweeds*

    I manage an essential business and holy cow is it STRESSFUL.

    My team is doing ok for the most part, but the constant stress of exposing ourselves every day is wearing on all of us. All of my staff are coming to me for reassurance or just to vent about their mental health, but I’m reaching the point where I don’t have the capacity for it. I need to take care of myself and my family, and I am just as worried as everyone else so how on Earth can I juggle everyone else’s emotions right now?

    For those of you in a similar situation, do you have any advice about how to be a positive leader when the world has been turned upside down?

    1. Graciosa*

      I have a scheduled team call (we’re all WFH, but there are other options for getting together) which is nominally to touch base on work but really to vent and keep our spirits up. Puppy pictures have been in vogue lately.

      The point is that they are – with some initial nudging on my part – treating this as a chance to support each other, so the entire emotional weight is not falling on me. I still get some of it, but not nearly as much. Also, it’s a dedicated time slot, so I can leave at the scheduled end time without offense even if they still want to keep going.

      For individual calls when someone just wants to vent or be supported, I admit that I might possibly be doing other (quiet) things while we’re on speaker phone. If I try to multitask for work or even let myself think “When will Chris be done so I can finish the report?” I just get frustrated.

      If I accept that part of my job is listening and making soothing noises for a while and let myself knit / color / puzzle while I do it, it seems easier to manage. I suspect that having a simple distraction gets me mentally and emotionally far enough away to keep providing support without it feeling quite so draining.

      Boundaries are another big one. I am strictly limiting my media intake, and I’m also reserving the right to limit my time listening to the complaints of others if I can’t take any more. Letting someone know you have to leave for [business reason] in a few minutes and want to find out if there’s anything more that you can do before bringing this to a close should work perfectly well (I’ve not used it for Covid-19 yet, but have for other reasons in the past).

      This is going to be a marathon, and I am going to forgive myself for getting through it without an unlimited ability to relieve everyone else’s stress as long as I do what I can.

      Good luck –

    2. Jambon-Beurre*

      Is EAP offered through your employer? If so, I would recommend it to my employees or send out an email reminding everyone of this invaluable service especially during this time.

  140. Maika*

    Anyone have any idea on which jobs / careers / disciplines that will be on the other side of this pandemic? Asking for a friend.

    1. Retail not Retail*

      This sounds stupid but if they can make it, tourism institutions will probably bounce right back.

      My park? I have no doubt we’ll see double attendance when we do reopen – people actually wanted to come on Easter. No! It’s not happening!

      1. tangerineRose*

        There are multiple zoos I want to visit once this is over! I think a lot of businesses are going to have eager customers who have missed them. I just hope the businesses will be there.

    4. Chronic Overthinker*

      Law firms in general, but sadly Bankruptcy firms will most likely be getting some new clients. An unfortunate side effect of this pandemic, but a necessary evil I guess.

  141. ALM2019*

    My entire company has been WFH for 3 weeks now and based on our location and size we’ve got at least another 6 weeks of this. I’m really struggling to focus. I live alone so I don’t have any big distractions but I can’t seem to put my mind to working on anything that isn’t time sensitive. Anyone have any suggestions? I do know my mental state is a factor. I’ve always had severe anxiety which has been worse than usual with the pandemic.

    1. Utoh!*

      Can you try simulating the things you do in the office to keep yourself focused on the items that aren’t time-sensitive? I generally don’t listen to music in the office but find it a companion when I’m home alone (when hubby is at work, no kids). I try to get out and either take a walk or do a walking DVD. I can also keep in touch with my coworkers over chat.

  142. Lizabeth*

    I am totally gobsmacked at the moment. Recently learned that the owners totally behaved in an unprofessional manner to an ex-employee. The Office Squawker piled on as well. AND they had no leg to stand on to do it! Legally, ethically or morally. BUT they chose to view it as a “how dare you…blah, blah, blah”. What did Jane do that was so horrible? She reach out to an artist that was no longer under contract to the company and the company had no intention of working with again to see if the artist would be interested in working with her at her new job. Jane has been gone from my company for over two years now and had started at her latest job in the fall. Head hitting keyboard…if they do this to someone who doesn’t work for them any more it doesn’t bode well for the employees that actually do their jobs and keep them in the manner they have become accustomed. Sigh…

  143. AnonForThis*

    Hi, I am wondering, does anyone know or currently work with the FBI or similar agency.
    I know many gov/military agencies have jobs that are more research/intelligence oriented.
    Do you know if those positions have physically fit requirements also?
    I was looking for instance at the FBI site, and it said if one is accepted to be an FBI Intelligence Analyst one still has to attend basic training, but some of it looked like it was more academic, but I honestly couldn’t tell for sure.
    Even before COVID I’d been thinking about trying to apply to such gov. positions, but if there are really strict physical requirements I doubt I’d ever pass, even with training, just due to my own physical limitations.

    2. Policy Wonk*

      Yes. There are lots of intelligence analyst jobs throughout the government that are office-based and do not have the kind of physical requirements you mention. Commerce, Defense, Energy, Justice, State, all of the Intelligence Community, and possibly other agencies. Look at USA Jobs, put in search parameters, sign up for alerts and start applying. These kinds of jobs require security clearances which can take a long time so hiring won’t be quick. Good luck!

  144. CC*

    Ugggg working at a non-essential company that doesn’t take covid seriously. Normal conversational distance is still the norm. I know they know what everybody is supposed to do, because there was a memo repeating prevention recommendations circulated, and I saw a manager complaining to my supervisor that his wife had told him he had to keep his distance from people at work. Only… the distancing is neither enforced nor, in many cases, possible, and the next time I saw the complaining manager, he was back to normal conversational distance.

    And now I have a cough (and called in sick). I hope it’s not covid.

    (I have started the process of reporting them; in my jurisdiction, enforcement and fines were announced recently.)

    1. General von Klinkerhoffen*

      I hope it’s just a coincidence. There are other coughs.

      But the isolation will protect you, so I’m glad you can escape that environment while they’re slow to get a clue.

      Very best wishes.

      1. CC*

        Yeah. I haven’t got a fever or anything, just a cough, so I’m really hoping it’s nothing serious.

      2. Enough*

        Yea, I have a cough but it’s allergies and have had it to one degree or another since November.

        1. CC*

          Ugh, allergies. That would make it hard to figure out if you got covid on top of your allergic cough.

          I don’t have allergies and this cough came on suddenly, so I figured better safe.

  145. Mary mary quite contrary*

    Does anyone else hate working from home, or am I the only one? I purposely applied for jobs at companies that didn’t have the work from home option. I liked the separation that work was at work and home was no work, the two never meeting. Of course once the pandemic hit the company set up so everyone could work from home and completely shut down our office. I hate this so much. My home was where I went to get away from work and now there are seemingly never ending calls, video calls and emails to attend to. My coworkers all love it and want to make it permanent. I seem to be the only outlier. I’ve never had to work from home before and I don’t like it. I’ve decided that once this is over I will be leaving this industry and applying in an adjacent one (where my experience will be relevant) where it is impossible to work from outside the company due to logistics and laws. In this industry work happens during business hours only and not on holidays or weekends. If I was in it now I would be sent home with pay but my home would not be invaded with work. That’s my rant. *I do recognize this is a first world problem and how fortunate I am to still have work. Does anyone else here on AAM have the same problem as me?

    1. Chronic Overthinker*

      I am the exact same way. Working from home never appealed to me. When I am at work I can focus more on the tasks that need to be completed. If I were working from home, there would be too many distractions from my pets, to the temptation of having the television on, et cetera. I am totally with you and understand the need for having a place to go to to complete work.

    2. Seven hobbits are highly effective, people*

      I hate working from home too. It reminds me of college, when my life was a miserable blur of mixed work and social time so I never really could relax. I also tend to put things off until the middle of the night since there’s no “have to get it done so I can go home” clock, and it’s just really not how I work best.

      In college, I solved this problem by forming study groups and working on homework from the library or the computer lab, and by strategic selection of which classes to take. Those solutions are not open to me right now, and I have never worked well all alone.

      It almost makes me want to get a roommate who also works from home so I can have that feeling of other people working around me, but that’s not the most reasonable course of action right now either. (I don’t financially need a roommate, and my home isn’t really set up to have one.)

  146. Amber Rose*

    Dear AAM,

    My new supervisor was hovering over my shoulder and when I turned to ask him to give me a little room, he licked my face from chin to eye and then stuck his nose in my ear. He’s never done this before, so I was too surprised to call him out on it. Later I tried to talk to him about it but he ignored me to go yell out a window. What should I do?

    Sincerely,

    My Cat is Losing His Mind Too

    1. LilPinkSock*

      My supervisor is demanding extra ear scratchies and more time spent with the laser toy.

    2. MeguminDoppel*

      I really thought this was real for a second, considering some of the letters we’ve gotten here. :) I mean, some managers have gotten so close to employees they pretty much were licking them.

      1. Amber Rose*

        May this never really be real. It’s cute and endearing when my cat does it, although very strange for him. It’s horribly creepy and upsetting to imagine a grown man doing it.

    3. Bibliovore*

      Dear AAM,
      My WFH supervisor disappears every time I log in to zoom. My co-workers have all introduced their very engaged colleagues. I suspect they are just humoring me when I say she was here just a minute ago.

      1. KristinaL*

        One of my feline co-workers has sometimes cried loudly (she sounds sad, but she really just wants to show off a toy) while I’m on the phone. Another feline co-worker sometimes knocks my phone off the desk and occasionally sits on my notepaper.

    4. Retail not Retail*

      Dear AAM,

      My manager is on exposure quarantine and today is his usual day off! Most managers are off, but we had these new supervisors that flew right over the line.

      They hovered at our shoulders, zigzagged wildly around the space, fought, and hit the walls and our tools. We know they have no disciplinary power, but is there a way to communicate with them?

      Signed,
      A busy bee hounded by carpenter bees

  147. Flaxseed*

    I never thought I’d be saying this, but I hate working from home. There are multiple google meets for different meetings, so it’s hard to know which one to go to. My boss is a micromanager, which seems worse now. I’ll get these random text messages to jump on the google meet or she’ll call me. (I’m sitting here working like I’m supposed to, but she’ll contact me when I’m eating lunch or in the bathroom….) Plus, if we’re in a meeting, if there is any noise whatsoever, she throws a hissy fit. “What’s that noise?!” One time it was just someone moving in their chair. We have daily meetings, plus a form where we have to record what we’re doing daily.

    Plus, she’s very impatient so when she wants something, she wants it *now*.

    Is there any way to deal with a boss like this? When she is impatient, is there anything to say so that she chills? I usually tell her I’m working on it, but I’m not sure if there is something better to say.

  148. matcha123*

    When you start working at a new company, do you ask your coworkers to fill you in about office politics, or do you wait and see?
    I’ve been at my job for three years and I have committed some huge faux pax by not being overly friendly with a senior coworker. I have always thought that when you are new, you should be quiet and wait for senior staff/coworkers who’ve been there longer to reach out to you. If they don’t, it means they don’t want anything to do with you.
    It seems that this senior staff member expected new staff to reach out to her and seek her advice and mentorship. Since I didn’t do that, she assumed the worst of me.

    How do you balance wanting to get in good with your teammates without coming off as some kind of gossipy busybody?

    1. Lovecraft Beauty*

      I think that person who’s mad at you is weird. That said, ” If they don’t, it means they don’t want anything to do with you” is reading way too much into it; they’re busy, they probably don’t have time to personally welcome every new hire.

      In terms of “politics,” I prefer to observe interactions in meetings, read back through email threads I get added to for interpersonal context, that kind of thing, so to draw my own conclusions about who I want to be allied with and trust. In terms of making connections with coworkers, I often reach out to the people I’ll be working with on other teams and ask them to give me an overview of their work, their process, what their pain points are that I can help solve, what they’re hoping for from the person in my position. Senior leadership are often so busy that reaching out directly is intrusive, and I’ll get to know them when I’m working on projects they care about.

    2. Count Boochie Flagrante*

      I wait and listen about politics — and I’m careful about what I’m directly told. I’ve been burnt before on getting the supposed lowdown on the office politics from someone who actually turned out to be not only wrong but herself an office pariah for bad behavior.

      But on the other hand, I do try to proactively engage with my coworkers in non-gossipy ways. Talk to them, get to know them, be interactive and you’ll get the vibe much faster.

    3. Flaxseed*

      I’ve tried “schmoozing” (not sure of the technical term) with senior/more established coworkers, and it did absolutely nothing. For the new people that fit in, I think it was either luck, connections, and/or longevity. I worked there for 2 years and still can’t figure it out. Being social was a HUGE part of it- I’m quiet and have RBF, but I’m not going to pretend to be something I’m not.

      Regarding “Since I didn’t do that, she assumed the worst of me”- Did someone tell you this? Have you made attempts to reach out to her and she was unresponsive? Can you try a “Hey, I think we got off on the wrong foot. Can you please help me with X task/report?” (Someone else might have better wording.)

      1. matcha123*

        Feedback I got from my old supervisor assumed that I disliked this person and that I needed to make right with her. I was very confused because I tried to show the person in question that I was attentive to feedback, actively listening to work related topics, and tried to look friendly when she was chit-chatting.
        I am pretty quiet until I get to know someone, and my guess is she may have taken that as me assuming I was too good to talk to her or something. Things have improved somewhat over the past two months, but only time will tell.

    4. Jedi Squirrel*

      Good workers will not talk about politics, so you’re probably going to get all the juicy stuff from people with an axe to grind. I never ask. It will become apparent soon enough.

    5. Jeffrey Deutsch*

      Be wary of people* who reach out to you your first few days and weeks. Folks who do that tend to not be the kind of people you want as long-term allies.

      [*] With obvious exceptions like your manager, any assigned mentor/trainer, your immediate co-workers, HR to explain benefits and policies and the like.

  149. Editor*

    How many people actually touch type at work? I thought teaching typing was standard now in elementary or middle school.

    I am curious because I know someone working in a customer service call center (a fairly decent one, not toxic) who said basically that touch typing had gotten them their high performance numbers in answering calls and chats and that being able to type documentation fast was a real advantage. Before they went to WFH, they noticed most co-workers either could not or would not touch type. Apparently a lot of the staff there are two-finger typists or folks who can’t type without watching the keyboard, which slows them down.

    And… I don’t think the employer gives applicants typing tests, but maybe they should.

    1. cmcinnyc*

      This is probably an age thing. I learned to touch-type in high school–everybody did. We had a class during the regular school day! I’m trying to make my daughter learn using a tutorial (Mavis Beacon). I type 90 words a minute, effortlessly. Yeah, it can make a difference.

      1. Editor*

        The customer service person I know is mid-30s in age and learned touch typing some time in elementary school. A teacher I asked about this says the school district where their family is provides computers (Chromebooks, maybe?) but has no specific program for when the students learn particular computer skills, so who learns what when is hit or miss.

        A friend tells me he learned to touch type *fast* by playing online text-based computer games. I guess he learned the basics at school.

          1. Diahann Carroll*

            Hit submit too soon – we had mandatory typing classes when I was in fifth grade. My brother, who was four years behind me, didn’t have the mandatory classes – I guess they were phased out at some point.

        2. Princess Zelda*

          I’m 24 and learned touch typing in elementary and middle school. The kids from the school near my work don’t learn touch typing formally; most of them are hunt-and-pecking.

    2. !*

      I too took touch-typing back in the olden days but it was only when I was introduced to the world of chat (anyone remember Argus?) that my typing skills became what they are today. People in my department (IT) are always amazed by how fast I type and that I don’t need to look at the keys. It’s a skill, like any other, you just have to practice it.

    3. Third or Nothing!*

      I only look at the keyboard to position my hands or find a key I don’t normally use. Same goes for the number pad (I work with numerical data).

    4. KayDeeAye*

      I think it’s very useful and often important to be able to type quickly without looking at the keyboard all the time.

      But I have known some really fast two- and three-fingered typists. I don’t know how they manage it, but some people do.

    5. Koala dreams*

      I had touch typing in school, because we had computers with keyboards. Computers were a novelty and fun, so even the boring typing exercises seemed great. (Students had to take turns practising.) Nowadays many schools use Ipads, and some people only use smart phones (not computers), so touch typing is getting rarer. Also voice chat is taking over from text chat, so there’s that.

    6. SophieChotek*

      Yes like cmciinyc said – probably an age thing.
      I remember learning typing in 6th grade (way back when!)
      It was the last class of the day for me and we all wanted to finish our exercises…
      so we could play Oregon Trail (and die of dysentary).
      Unless I start seeing errors, I don’t need to look at my keyboard.

    7. Amber Rose*

      It was taught in school but I’m sloooooow at touch typing. The worst. Just using my index and middle fingers, I’m as fast as anyone I’ve ever met and for the most part I still don’t need to look at my hands.

    8. Buni*

      I went to a fairly exclusive girls’ boarding school where they said “ ~Of course~ you’re going to go on to be doctors and lawyers and Leaders of Industry…but the meanwhile, *just in case*, we’re going to teach you to type.”

      And I’m *so glad*, because when I first moved to Big City all I could do was type and play the piano, and I kept myself for the first 4 years just by office temping and giving music lessons.

    9. just a random teacher*

      I had a typing class in 6th grade as a one-quarter elective, but what really taught me how to type quickly was when all of my friends got on ICQ in the 90s. We’d stay up entirely too late at night chatting for hours, and you had to be fast to get a word in edgewise when more than 3-ish people were in the chat. After a few years of that as my main way of socializing with people, I was a very fast and reasonably accurate typist.

      During my teaching career, typing has never been a required subject in terms of state or district requirements. I’ve taught it as part of a class a few different times, but never with much emphasis. When I taught a middle school computer elective, it’s something we’d do for a day here or there when I needed some breathing room to plan the next actual unit if the previous one wrapped up before I had my ducks in a row. I’d also usually leave typing practice days for sub plans since even technophobic subs were generally comfortable with being asked to circulate the room and make sure students were using the typing program rather than other things.

    10. PollyQ*

      Oddly enough, I think kids these days are not learning touch typing as much as you’d think. Yes, they’re on keyboards all day long, but at least for my nieblings (aged 19 & 15), they’ve never had formal instruction on the skill. They just use the typing speed they’ve naturally picked up. I do think it’s a pity — my sister & I both learned to touch-type in school, and it’s a very useful skill if you’re working at a keyboard.

    11. Woman of a Certain Age*

      I learned touch typing in high school on a state-of-the-art IBM Selectric typewriter. My high school was considered very “progressive” and forward-thinking because it was one of the few high schools in the state where typing was a mandatory course for everyone. Even boys.

      It was shocking!

  150. "Lucky" I guess*

    Hi, I was hoping to get advice about a couple things:

    1) What do you say to someone who’s just been laid off? I want to offer a couple words of…sympathy, but I just don’t know what to say. For context, this was 2 days ago and very sudden. I was completely shocked. My coworker had the same position as me but a daytime shift (vs. my evening shift) with some moderately different duties. I’ve been only working here for a little over a year and she was here for at least 5 years. We weren’t exactly friends but she was always so kind and helpful and I considered her my job mentor. The only reason I can think for her being laid off instead of me is an inter-department skillset I have that she didn’t (and it transfers fairly easily remotely). If she thought this unfair I honestly can’t disagree. I’m glad to not be laid off right now (especially since my job is not really a remote position but we’re working with it), but I feel guilty and horrible. What can I even say that won’t come off as rubbing salt in the wound? And it would have to be through text because I don’thave her email and a phone call seems too much. (I know I can’t control how others perceive me but never saying anything to her again also feels bad.)

    2) Is there any way to ask why I wasn’t laid off? I saw my dept boss in person yesterday for the last time in what will at least be a month if not longer. I don’t know if that’s accidentally poking a hornet nest or planting doubt about myself but I’m genuinely confused. Maybe this is a weird way to try to assuage my guilt but it’s tugging at me.

    1. Friday afternoon fever*

      1) in your text maybe focus on telling her specifically what you appreciated about working with her — just be genuine and kind and don’t lay on the sympathy
      2) i suppose you could ask something like ‘can you share the rationale behind deciding who to lay off?’

    2. My boss made me walk across coals for a promotion*

      1. I guarantee you, please reach out to her. If she’s anything like I was, any contact would be appreciated.

      This is what I wish would’ve been done for me —

      Sympathize, explain that you were surprised and sorry to see her go. Tell her the good things about herself that you enjoyed working with her. Rubbing salt in the wound would be to say “omg Im swamped, you’re so lucky you’re out fo there!” (legit had someone say that to me after a layoff many years ago).

      I understand that you feel guilty and horrible, and I would too — but I think anyone who lost their job is in a worse position than someone who is still there. I have a close friend who was in the 2nd or 3rd round and definitely felt survivor guilt but she won’t be the one to vent to.

      2. I know this is not a good way to think of it, but if you see layoffs are coming, I’d polish up your resume, save up as much $$ as you can and work until you can.

  151. Aarrrrggghhh*

    We took a 20% paycut today and people are being furloughed. I am so scared. I have student loans and mortgages as well as credit card bills to pay.
    Am I alone? How do others handle this?

    1. Amber Rose*

      I was there in 2016 and I’m about to be there again next month. Now is a good time to sit down with a calculator and a spreadsheet and a list of all your income plus all your payments, and see where you can cut back or cut down.

    2. Count Boochie Flagrante*

      Contact your credit card issuers & student loan servicers ASAP. You will probably be on hold for approximately a million years, but there are forbearances and financial assistance plans and other resources available to you, but they are not likely to be proactively offered. Call and ask. It can make a huge difference.

    3. Anonycat*

      You are not alone. My company has cut pay and hours across the board. It varies by department, but mine is the worst at 40%, so my team is down to 3 days a week. (We do keep our health insurance.) The hope is that these temporary measures will prevent layoffs until things get back to normal. I’ll be honest, I am concerned that we won’t ever approach normal. I’m trying to conserve money — cutting back on all extras — and plan to get through the next few months paying the minimums. I know mortgage and credit card companies will work you, as will student loans (federal only, I think?), but you’ll have to call them up individually.

    4. Aaaaarrrgghhhh*

      I read a report from the recession in 2008 saying that companies who need to cut salaries eventually need to lay off people anyway, this is just a measure to postpone the inevitable. And that companies who cut salaries also are more likely to go bankrupt and have to close down, than others.

      On a more positive note: you gave me hope and 8’ll talk to the banks and credit card issuers and hope for the best!

    5. Jeffrey Deutsch*

      First off, prioritize your bills.

      (The above article says student loans should be a low priority. But if you default on federal student loans, the government can garnish your paycheck and also your tax refund, Social Security payments and any other federal payments administratively — without so much as talking to a lawyer or stepping into a courtroom. Right now all federal student loan collections — including on defaults — are suspended through September 30, 2020.)

      Here’s some options in case you’re fired, laid off or furloughed.

      And finally, some things you can do to raise money now. (Spoiler: Only take a cash advance on your credit card, or a payday loan, as a last resort.)

      Good luck!

  152. rubyrose*

    Just need to vent.
    Recruiters: learn the time zones! When someone tells you they are available at a certain time in a time zone, do not call them outside of that time and then be surprised when they don’t answer.

    Also, do not just send someone an invite for a day/time you have not negotiated with them and expect them to drop everything to meet with you.

    You are not special.

    End of vent. Thanks for listening.

  153. topscallop*

    Hi all,

    Those of you who have taken parental leave, when did you tell your work? I’m almost 13 weeks pregnant and was thinking of waiting until 20 weeks, since I’m not seeing any colleagues in person any time soon and they won’t notice through Zoom calls. But these are weird times. I don’t think there will be any risk to my leave or PTO if I tell them sooner, and it might be a nice thing for people to know. Thoughts?

    1. My boss made me walk across coals for a promotion*

      I told my boss who I’m close to at 6 weeks. VP and my subordinate – at 13 weeks, and slowly came out to others.

      IME it worked against me but I assume this is just my own crappy company, and not how good employers operate.

    2. Third or Nothing!*

      I told my boss and coworkers as soon as I knew I was pregnant. But I was also supposed to be unable to have children so I was WAY too excited to keep it bottled up inside. Also I had terrible nausea starting pretty early so it was super obvious anyway.

    3. Policy Wonk*

      These are not normal times. I’d hold off until you know if there is a chance of layoffs or cut-backs. While it would be illegal for pregnancy to be taken into account when making such decisions, that doesn’t mean it won’t happen. (I advised my boss early on, way back in normal times, and he started treating me differently right away.)

      1. topscallop*

        Thanks, I think I will hold off for a while. My company is doing a good job of protecting staff who get sick or need accommodations to take care of family or kids, and I work with lots of women who have kids of their own, so hopefully the environment will remain supportive. But you never know.

        Not having told work yet was my ace in the hole for convincing my family not to put anything about my pregnancy on social media, so there’s a little bit of pressure there, but nothing I can’t handle. Maybe I will tell work at the end of the month, when we were supposed to all get together for a big meeting that’s now been canceled/postponed. That’s when most people would have found out if the pandemic hadn’t happened, as I imagine I’ll be showing by then.

    4. Carlottamousse*

      I waited until about 3 and a half months, a couple weeks after the holidays (during normal times pre-Covid), and it was well received. I think this is a very much know-your-office decision, however. I think if your office would take it well, they may appreciate getting good news during this time of turmoil.

  154. Watry*

    My employer suddenly approved work from home for everyone on my team, with only one person going in per day to do things that have to be hands on. I’ve done WFH before, so I’m good with that, but I have never been so happy to work for the government. Our workload is maybe 10 percent of the normal, but while I’m getting super twitchy because I feel like I have to be “at work”, at least I don’t have to worry about getting laid off.

    Buuuut for some reason one of my coworkers and I don’t have to take our turn in the office and we don’t know why. Our supervisor is aware but doesn’t seem to want to change it. We’re a touch afraid our coworkers will be resentful.

    Anyone have tips for coping with a drastically lowered workload or the coworkers if that turns out to be a problem?

    1. my eyes hurt*

      Are there any side projects you could be working on? Not sure what industry you’re in but for us, one of our employees who has a lighter workload from home is creating some user manuals/FAQs, rewriting some email templates we use, organizing our Dropbox, etc things that all of us will benefit from.

  155. Chocolate Teapot*

    After the recent transfer to a new department, with a new boss, said boss has just informed us he is resigning. I have no idea how things are going to work out.

  156. CoffeeLover*

    Massive reorg in the middle of a global pandemic – yay or nay?

    So my company is going through a HUGE reorg – think 3000 people all getting new teams, new roles and new ways of working. It’s a once in a lifetime kind of reorg.

    Before COVID, I was all for it. The changes make a lot of sense and are much overdue. But now, we’re all working from home and over half the workforce is on reduced hours (aka partial unemployment). Not to mention the impending recession which will make it extremely difficult to find work for the people who laid off as part of this reorg.

    My company has explicitly communicated that they plan to continue the reorg on the same timeline. Am I the only one who thinks this is completely bonkers? Things are chaotic enough just trying to keep business going – how in the world do they expect to execute a successful reorg? I really don’t get what they’re thinking…

    1. MissDisplaced*

      Hm. Well you could argue that this may also be the kindest time to let people go. Because there seem to be some additional safety nets in place for those laid off during the pandemic. I believe unemployment will be extended.

      What I’d find more difficult is trying to form the new teams and have them be productive when people are WFH or off or possibly sick. But they may be thinking at least all the pieces will be in place now for when it eventually picks back up.

  157. Anonymous Hippopotamus*

    If you have issues you need to address head on with an employee, do you let your boss know first, or do you have the conversation with the report first and only tell your own boss if that doesn’t fix it? IE only tell him if I need back-up, or keep him informed?

    1. LilPinkSock*

      I think that depends on what the issues are and the relationship between me and the other employee. I decided to speak to my manager first about an issue I had because it was pretty major–we talked through my game plan and we determined that because the issue was regarding something I oversee, I was the best person to have a conversation with the coworker.

      1. ruh roh*

        I think your relationship with your boss also matters, although it sounds like you both have enough of one to want to involve them. I’m about to go into something with one of my reports, and I don’t plan to tell my boss yet because he has a history of thoughtlessly overreacting. If the situation doesn’t improve after this, I probably have to tell him, but at that point it will be serious enough to warrant it.

        1. Anonymous Hippopotamus*

          I’m not necessarily worried about my boss overreacting, more like I feel like he should know (I pretty much keep him informed of anything I know about), but he does tend to take action on things that I just want to inform him about, even if I’m explicit about not wanting him to take action.

      2. Anonymous Hippopotamus*

        The report is new, the conversation is going to be part of a 90 day review sort of thing. Nothing hideously major, more about attitude and handling things on a day-to-day basis. I have a very good relationship with my boss, but I also don’t want to color his attitude against this employee if this is something we can turn around quickly.

  158. lazy librarian?*

    I’m very fortunate to be working, for now. I’m under the impression that I’ll be working from home in the near future and I am having MAJOR, MAJOR anxiety about it. I know that some people are loooving working from home. However, I am a naturally lazy person and without EXPLICIT quotas or guidelines… I legitimately see myself falling behind/not doing anything of value/etc. if I work from home. I do fine physically at work because other people are there, I’m more able to hold myself accountable, I work harder, etc., but left to my own devices, I am legitimately lazy. I also procrastinate a ton, at work I can’t procrastinate because I have to get stuff done! I just don’t understand how I’m supposed to legitimately re-create the 7hr/5 day workweek at home and it’s giving me so much anxiety.

    1. Robin Ellacott*

      I totally get having anxiety about this!

      Can you buddy up with someone and each exchange goals at the start of every workday and check in at the end about how it went? Or commit to updating your supervisor regularly as to what you did that day/week?

      Everyone says this but personally if I do the thing I desperately WANT to procrastinate on first, I proceed with the next tasks with more energy. As in “eat the frog.” An Outlook calendar with tasks as well as appointments helps me too – the reminders drive me batty if I don’t feel like I am keeping up. But YMMV of course. Good luck!

    2. KayDeeAye*

      My first WFH week, I was so busy that I didn’t need anything to keep me motivated – just keeping up with what had to be done was enough. Since then, it’s been a little harder, but my advice to you is to remember that lists of tasks can be your friends here. I always kept a sort of informal list in my head, but for some reason that’s harder to do at home, so now I make an actual list.

      And you might figure out a way to hold yourself accountable. For example: My boss is fairly OK with WFH – she’s got control-freak tendencies, but she knows they’re useless (particularly now), she tries really hard to keep them tamped down, and she’s being pretty successful – but her boss is a total control freak. So my boss asked her team to keep her really well-informed about what we’re doing most days, so that if Grandboss says “What is Kay working on?” Boss has an answer. So what I started doing was sending Boss a very short email every morning, saying “This is what I’m planning to work on today.” It’s really helped keep me on track.

    3. Jambon-Beurre*

      I understand the anxiety about this. Some of my coworkers are struggling with WFH and mentioned procrastination, anxieties, and missing our coworkers. If you don’t think it would make you more anxious, when you want to procrastinate or feel yourself getting lazy, intentionally think about the unfortunate alternative to working at home or office. I don’t think most employers expect 100% productivity anyway so allow yourself some grace there.

  159. Joielle*

    Does anyone have a recommendation for a folding office chair? I’ve been working alternately from the couch and dining room table, and neither is great for my back. I should probably buy an actual office chair but would like to be able to fold it and move it out of the way in my small house. There are a lot of options online but if anyone here has ever used one and can recommend/not recommend it, that would be awesome.

  160. Mediamaven*

    I hoping the excitement over video meetings starts to wane. I’ve had people wanting to get on video that have been fine with a regular call previously. It’s so unproductive. Many of us do other things while on conference calls and now we can only remain fixated in place for an hour. Many of us don’t want to see ourselves on video. And while it may seem shallow, many of us, especially women, are having to cancel maintenance appointments like hair and things. I don’t really want people to see me in the condition. Let’s not force video calls.

    1. NicoleK*

      Today, my boss insisted that our daily team meetings be video calls. I am so not excited about it.

  161. Robin Ellacott*

    Hi everyone! Happy Friday.

    My dear friend manages a store which is considered an essential service, and is still open with lots of precautions in place – customers need to wait at the door while staff gather their purchases, and so on. She has been sending me increasingly distressed messages about all the abuse she and her staff are suffering from customers who are screaming at them over the inconveniences and filing official complaints – which her corporate head office makes her respond to with an apology call even if they are ridiculous.

    At this point she is afraid to take a day off as she wants to shelter her (mainly young) staff from the abuse, but she is feeling sick at the prospect of going to work. She’s a tough cookie but this is all just too much.

    I just don’t know how to help her, or if anything I say or do COULD help her. We aren’t able to see each other. All I could think of is checking in daily, asking what she needs, and maybe sending a care package. I’m working too but don’t have any of these stressors, just some overtime, so I am petty much fine and have energy I would happily give to listen to her. But I think she is past the stage of wanting to vent and is just wilting.

    Is anyone in her situation? Or can anyone think of anything I or she could do to help mitigate all the nastiness? It just breaks my heart to see (some) people being so ugly when we’d hope to pull together.

    1. MicroManagered*

      Oh that’s awful! I cannot imagine being rude to someone working in a store right now!

      I don’t have any suggestions beyond what you suggested. Maybe you can schedule time to talk on the phone or video chat after work a couple times a week so she has something to look forward to?

    2. MechanicalPencil*

      Honestly, people suck.

      Is there already some sort of notice posted on the door about how this tactic is to keep staff/customers as safe as possible from exposure? I’ve received emails from various stores about how they’re managing COVID and have switched to XYZ shopping methods, so if there’s a mailing list available, perhaps that’s an option?

      1. Robin Ellacott*

        Thanks both! This is an affluent suburb and it seems that this situation is either bringing out people’s super entitled attitudes or their kind, community minded attitudes, with little visible in between.

        They do have a sign on the door – it’s a really nice one too with a lot about how they are really happy to help you figure out what you need, please ask, here to help, etc. I’ll ask her about the mailing list though.

        And Thanks to MicroManagered too – I didn’t want to clutter this up with multiple “thanks” replies – I’ll see if a video chat would appeal to her. Or maybe watching a movie “together” and just chatting about that.

      2. Jambon-Beurre*

        I was thinking maybe add to their notice something about please be patient with them and if it is more convenient for them they can return at another time. Don’t know how corporate may feel about that though since they already have her apologizing unnecessarily. Shame on them and those offensive customers for their bad behavior.

    3. Reba*

      I wonder if there is an online message board like Nextdoor or Facebook group that is actively used in your area. Maybe you could post in defense of essential retail workers and encourage your neighbors to be patient, civil and kind (while not naming your friend or possibly even her business).

      I’d like to say that you should take the corporate office to task for making their employees grovel, but I’m not sure that’s practical without involving your friend.

      On the personal level, I think the emotional support you’re offering is invaluable.

  162. ruh roh*

    Layoffs are starting at my company. I’m reasonably confident in my position (or at least that I can’t be *easily* replaced)… but I also thought my work friend was in high standing and it turns out she might be one of the first to go. I’m not very happy here anyway, so it seems like a good time to do a resume update and start looking around.

    Here’s the problem: part of the reason I can’t be easily replaced is that my job description is super nebulous and I do a lot of very different things, half of which I have no idea how to describe in resume-speak (like: I head up the Llama Groomer team, but I’ve also spent a lot of time on Teapot Design’s new llama-shaped teapot, and my boss has been getting me more involved in Camelidae Sales, while I’ve also been trying to dig out a little space in Pottery Testing).

    Are there people out there who can talk me through something like that? Are job coaches actually helpful?

    1. Still working from work*

      I’m going through something similar – I’m not actively looking for another job, but in our downtime I’ve been working on a procedure manual and there is a LOT about my job that just comes from experience and the ability to know all of the players and how things fit together.
      I’ve started just taking notes as I finish a project and trying to outline what I did. Then I go back later and cull it down to the essential information.
      So – for instance – if the police show up looking for a specific person – my job might be to track down leads to find where that person might be, pull together information that they need about the person in question, work with other staff to locate the person and keep the police in the loop as I do this and give them information to do what they need to do. All of that might take 20 minutes or three hours – but by listing the actual steps of what I’m doing, I can ultimately break that down to: Manage staff and resources to assist local police.

  163. StretchBreak!*

    I’m really confused about salary pay and paid vacation hours and would appreciate some help understanding.

    At my company, we’re expected to work 80 hours in our 2-week pay period, regardless of whether we’re paid hourly or salary. We have to complete time sheets at the end of each pay period to show the hours we worked.

    I’m paid salary. I often work over 40 hours a week. I do have weeks where I work a bit under (maybe 3-4 hours under) but I’ll just work over 40 the next week within the pay period or I use Earned Time Off (paid vacation hours) to ensure I reach 40 hours. Is this necessary? Can I just work under 40 hours a week and call it good? If so, when must I use vacation hours? Do I have to use them if I go to a scheduled doctor’s appointment or want a planned afternoon off?

    A manager told me that it’s fine to work under 40 if you’re getting your work done, but I work in a position where I don’t ever anticipate completing all my tasks. There’s always something to work on. Any guidance will help! I don’t think people at my company understand salary either.

    1. ThatGirl*

      This might be a question for your manager. I know at my company, I am salaried and exempt (whether you are exempt or non-exempt is more important than salaried vs hourly). We are still expected to work roughly 40 hours each week, but an hour or two here or there is not a big deal to my manager. And if I were regularly working, say, 45 hours a week I would likely get told to cut my hours back the next week — without using PTO.

      TL;DR: in my opinion if you usually work over 40 hours a week, I don’t think you should have to use PTO/Earned Time Off to leave a few hours early. But if your manager/company wants to nickle and dime you, you should consider working no more than exactly 40 hours each week.

    2. Jedi Squirrel*

      At my company, we’re expected to work 80 hours in our 2-week pay period, regardless of whether we’re paid hourly or salary.

      No, your company doesn’t understand how salary works. Whoever put this policy in place is very much a “butts in seats” kind of person.

      Hourly workers have to be paid for every hour they work, and must be paid overtime for anything over and above regular hours.

      Salaried workers get the same rate of weekly pay regardless of how many hours they work. But many companies like to put people on salary just so that they can get extra hours (anything over 40) of them without having to pay them more, and then get their nose out of joint if they put in less than 40.

      Your manager has it right. It’s quite possible your company has assigned too many duties to you if you can’t get everything done in a forty hour week.

  164. my eyes hurt*

    My company shut down our office and took the lockbox key we all used to get in. Because of the shutdown happening so suddenly, I didn’t have a chance to grab my glasses I wear all day. I’ve been managing without it but staring at a screen all day is starting to give me headaches, my eyes are hurting and my eyesight is blurred at times. When I log off for the day I can’t even watch tv because my eyes hurt. When I wrote my employer asking if there was any way I could go get my glasses, his response was “Don’t you have a spare set a home?” What?? Oh, of course I do, why didn’t I think of that? Duh. What should I do? I can’t even go get a new pair because everything is shut down and I’d need a new prescription. What do you advise? (Our company doesn’t have an HR department.)

    1. Ciela*

      Try writing back and explain that, no, you do not have extra glasses. Make sure your employer realizes how much you need them to effectively do your job.

      You might try seeing if you can get a hold of computer / blue light blocking glasses. I just saw some on Amazon that would be there in 3 days. Obviously not prescription, but might help with the eye strain?

    2. Utoh!*

      Did you tell your employer that no, you do not have a spare pair and cannot get a prescription to get another pair? Or could you use your old prescription for now to get a new pair (Zenni.com is perfect for this!)

      Good luck, I know how it feels to have to rely on your glasses!

    3. ThatGirl*

      in theory opticians are still open, but even so – new glasses are expensive! tell your employer you really need to get inside to get your glasses, it’s urgent, nobody is going to arrest you for going in to get critical equipment.

      1. Utoh!*

        Yes, they are expensive that’s why I get all my glasses from Zenni.com. Not more than $50 a pair including single-vision lenses. But I’m sure OP needs them now, and employer is being an ass.

    4. Ranon*

      If you can afford the cost, I’d call your optometrist and see if they’ll help you extend your prescription/ order a spare pair, it is likely to be faster than dealing with your irrational employer.

      With your employer I’d try calling your glasses a “necessary medical device” and see if that gets through their clearly dense heads.

      1. WellRed*

        I agree to phrase it as medically necessary and maybe stop working because you can’t see properly. Also, don’t write, pick up the phone and call.

    5. Anono-me*

      It might be that your boss doesn’t understand average income people not having multiple pairs of glasses and only is thinking of the risk of virus spread. So you will probably have to explain but the glasses are a necessary medical device and that you don’t have spares lying around the house. It might also be helpful if you have a plan to reclaim them.

      If there’s somebody still going into the office,(IT, maintenance, security, somebody doing a weekly mail pickup and walk around to make sure that no pipes burst etcetera) maybe you can coordinate with that person to do a curbside pickup.

      If no one’s going into the office, maybe you can make arrangements to have your nearest key holder either go in and get them and drop them at your door or you can go do a key curbside pickup at the nearest key holders location and go get the glasses yourself.

      (If the transportation risks are not insurmountable.)

  165. TechWorker*

    Asking here cos details maybe a bit too specific to share in a main post!

    This happened a while back – we were on a work weekend away. (Partners invited, line a little blurred between ‘work’ and ‘socialising’, but still work.)

    A very new female colleague got pretty drunk and started calling the CEO ‘Papa’ repeatedly, in a kinda screaming voice. She found it hilarious, the CEO found it clearly awkward but didn’t shut it down and I found it SO INCREDIBLY WEIRD that I basically just sat there giving extreme side eye.

    If it helps with context, male dominated industry, I am the only female manager at my site but wasn’t a manager at the time this happened. I just remember thinking ‘ok well the CEO doesn’t care that much, but if this was someone more junior or less confident this is verging on harassment – with all the weird sexual overtones that come from coming an older man ‘Papa’ – and it should have been shut down real quick.

    I think if something similar happened again I would speak up vs just extreme side eye – but what Dyou guys think? Am I overreacting? This is weird right?? What would you have done?

    2. MicroManagered*

      Yeah ew. I think the best way to handle stuff like this is to make them explain the joke–a tactic that works well with casual racism/homophobia too.

      You give a quizzical look, and say “Papa? Sarah why are you calling *the CEO* Papa?” and then…let her explain! If she said something vague like “Oh well you know…” you say (with genuine confusion) “No… I don’t. Why would you call the CEO Papa?”

    3. MechanicalPencil*

      I’d have issues with that. If I were being called Mama or…whatever, I would have shut it down. The CEO had that option and didn’t take it, for whatever reason. The other possibility is for her direct supervisor to say something to her about appropriate workplace socializing.

    4. Still working from work*

      Yeah – weird. But she was drunk and it sounds like it doesn’t happen all the time. It would be weirder if she kept it up later – when everyone was sober.
      I’d probably laugh about it and let it go – it’s up to the CEO to bring it up with her if it’s an issue.

      1. TechWorker*

        Actually this person has a pattern of potentially inappropriate behaviour when drunk and I think honestly gets away with more of it because there’s not many women in the company… but yes, I take the point.

        1. valentine*

          If you mean you would’ve said something to Nicole, never confront a drunk person. You can report the pattern to HR.

          1. TechWorker*

            Interesting – what I was actually most bothered by was not the incident itself (the CEO is, unsurprisingly, pretty confident) but the idea that it could have been happening to someone much less confident who wasn’t comfortable standing up for themselves. And that the new grads might think our company doesn’t care about this sort of behaviour because there was no reaction to it. (The same woman has been known to get a bit too keen on hugging people who are clearly not into it whilst drunk).

            So whilst I totally agree any actual ‘please stop doing this’ conversation needs to do be had with a drunk person, that doesn’t help the other people watching, or, in the example with hugging, help the person feeling uncomfortable get out of the situation.

            (FWIW we don’t have HR on site, let alone present at parties…)

    5. MissDisplaced*

      Weird. Inappropriate. What I call Drunk Mouth.
      If they’re not normally like this, I think it can be sort of chocked up to the booze… once.

      But someone ought to have a talk with her about watching the alcohol intake at work gatherings ‘cause it’s not a good look.

  166. crushed*

    Dumb problem…
    I am still working full time (from home). We’ve been offered the option to work 32 hours a week (with corresponding temporary pay cut) for the next few months. I’m considering taking it because honestly? If I’m going to be stuck at home full time, I’d like some time to enjoy it.

    My boss thinks I’m crazy to take a pay cut, but then he has two kids in college.

    My understanding is that this might help save money and preserve the jobs of colleagues who can’t work from home. I am extremely lucky to be able to afford this option, but I am wondering if there might be some negative long-term effects to doing this, like an implied message to management that I don’t have enough work for a 40-hour week.

    Thoughts?

    1. Ranon*

      I can’t speak to how it will be perceived at your company, but 32 hour weeks are awesome, I worked a 32 hour week for about 3 years and loved it- it’s plenty of time to keep up with 40 hour per week folks but it really is a lot of extra free time too

    2. Robin Ellacott*

      How nice! I would take it and tell your boss outright that you are really committed to your job and if he thinks it will cause any work issues to please let you know, but you would appreciate the extra time right now and want to be supportive of the company’s ability to keep staff working.

    3. crushed*

      Thanks both! I’ve found that we are getting very mixed messages: The money people want us to cut expenses, but the project people aren’t willing to move out the deadlines. Wish our leadership would all get on the same page.

      1. valentine*

        Don’t assume that it will save jobs or anything else that makes good sense.

        I’d be concerned they like the savings too much to surrender them.

    4. Seven hobbits are highly effective, people*

      Find out if this would have any implication for benefits as well as pay. Part-timers don’t always get the same health insurance and such as full-timers, so make sure you factor in those added expenses or lost benefits as well as the reduced pay. If your company has anything judged by length of service (pension, changes in how much vacation you get, seniority protection for layoffs, etc.) find out how reduced hours will impact your years credited for those things as well.

  167. Ciela*

    So, still working at work. WFH is so not an option. A week ago I would have said that we were not an essential business, but now we’re pretty much making just plastic face guards, and nothing else. At least 2 of the local hospitals were out, and very happy to get the ones that we made. So, sure, we’re essential now. The thing is, we can only go as fast as the machine that’s cutting out parts, so 2 people at a time is full production capacity. And yet there are 6 of us in the office at a time. I almost want my husband and I to be furloughed. He does not need to leaving the house. “Not uncommon in patients with major organ failure” is a phrase we often hear at his doctor appointments. Yes, both the bosses are aware of his medical conditions. A week ago we were told no paid time off, even with a positive COVD-19 test (if we got one). We’d have to take the time unpaid. Not to mention that we each have 4+ weeks of PTO banked. I hope we get the new SBA loan, then maybe there will be paid time off, or furloughing, and my husband and I can stay home until all this is over?

    1. Still working from work*

      Is that legal? I thought there had to be paid time off for COVID. I’ll be honest, there’s so much information I’m not doing a very good job of keeping up with the latest news.

      1. Ciela*

        yes, we’re supposed to get 2 weeks paid time of, reimbursed by the feds to the employer on their 2020 tax returns (to be filed in 2021). This is on top of anything else. But apparently work had no capital reserves. so we might not even be in business by the end of the month? Unless we get the SBA 7a loan, then we might be okay?

  168. Still working from work*

    I am part of a 3 person office and one of our people has opted to work from home. She is in regular contact and working just as efficiently as ever. My job doesn’t lend itself to working off site, as a large part of my job is day to day crisis management. People assume that I’m upset that she gets to work from home and I don’t. Others think she’s working from home because she’s been ‘exposed’ and those rumors are running rampant as well.
    It’s sort of become a joke because no matter how many times I say that she is fine, we talk regularly and I’m actually happy to be here because I wouldn’t like being home all day – people don’t believe me and give me regular pity.
    Is there anyone else out there still working from work and happy about it?

    1. Retail not Retail*

      We have a lot of freedom with no crowds and minimal manager presence (a department manager tested positive so all the managers are on quarantine) – like wearing headphones, parking vehicles in the park, leaving tools in a worksite, and it’s more relaxed.

      Also, it’s been stupidly nice and spring-like and the animals are out and i don’t have to fight crowds for a glimpse of any of the crowd pleasers.

    2. whistle*

      Me! My company has taken many precautions (see comment below), and I am very grateful to be coming into work instead of WFHing.

      It is such a nice day outside today, I don’t see any way I would not be in my garden if I was supposed to be working at home right now.

    3. Zona the Great*

      no but I wish I were. I thought I would love this. I LOVE home. I love home more than anywhere else. My main concern when looking for a new job is, “will this get me home by 5pm every night?”. But, man, I just don’t have the same joy of being at home when I”m here all day. I need something to remind me that I love going home.

  169. NeonDreams*

    Hi all! I’ve been transitioned to work from home for the time being. I’m getting used to it. Even has some nice perks. But the restlessness and uneasiness I’ve dealt with for over a year is still there. I still desperately want to change. I feel incredibly selfish for thinking that because I have one stable job. Not all of my friends are so lucky. So, it looks like I have to stick around a bit longer. I’m sad about that, though. Because the longer I stay here, the more discouraged I get. The virus is making me wonder if I can ever find something different. Or am I doomed to be stuck here?

    At least my therapy appointment is next week. We’ll have a lot to talk about.

    1. MissDisplaced*

      You are never “doomed” to be stuck anywhere!
      Only delayed.

      I got stuck for a year at a horrible agency because of 9/11. It sucked, but I kept on looking and I DID get out in a few months. Nothing is forever my dear! You’re only doomed if you make yourself paralyzed by inaction and fear. Don’t let yourself go there.

  170. Anon Anon Anon*

    Is there language I could keep in mind for indicating that while my company does something related to a public awareness campaign I am not participating because I don’t agree with the organization that promotes that particular campaign? I know I can’t stop my company from doing it for a number of reasons so I quietly ignore it when it happens don’t retweet any of the posts onto my own social media accounts or the accouts that I have that are more directly connected to the company to it.

    My actual personal twitter does have the alternate campaign though so it should be obvious that I disagree if anyone is looking at my personal account but I don’t say anything against my company for doing what they do… Should I just keep quiet and let things be and my own account stands as my own feelings on the subject without getting into a debate about it? Company does what they want I do what I want and we leave it alone?

    1. Still working from work*

      I’d leave it alone.
      As long as your company isn’t pressuring you to promote their cause on your personal social media, I’d say you’re in the clear to just let it go.

  171. Phryne Fisher*

    For those who are unable to work from home (i.e. required to go into the office), what has your employer done to minimize your risk of getting sick?

    My workplace has implemented a mandatory temperature screen at the entrance. Any employee with an elevated temperature is not let in. This, surprisingly to me, is being received very well by employees.

    1. Ciela*

      We’ve gone to split shifts, no more than 6 people in building at the same time. Each shift Lysol’s everything when they leave, and I Lysol again when I come in. 2 people who were exposed have not been in for a while. There is very much handwashing, and I yell at people for standing too close together.

    2. Retail not Retail*

      Well we closed to the public, we fired our work release crew (dorm/prison style living with roommates and group meals/meetings), and supplied more cleaning stuff.

      This pay period (until next saturday) everyone is getting their typical 80 hour check no matter what they work, so that kind of encourages you to stay home.

      Some office people are working from home but I don’t interact with them. We’re watering the office plants.

    3. whistle*

      We have sent everyone home we can and dispersed the rest. Our main building normally has about 40 employees, and I think there are 6 employees working there now. I am working in a smaller building next to the main building, and there are only 2 other employees in this building. I have an entire floor to myself, with my own bathroom and printer. They are monitoring who is allowed to use which entrance so that only two people at most are using the same entrance door. They are also monitoring who can use which printer. There are cleaners and gloves available pretty much everywhere. We have signs throughout the building stating expectations for social distancing. (We are in medical staffing.)

    4. Spessartine*

      Absolutely nothing. I’m training a few people and they were crowded around me all day so I could explain and demonstrate things. I was the only one wearing a mask and gloves. While I was at lunch–the only time I had my mask off–the office manager was walking around the office coughing repeatedly and not making the slightest effort to cover it. One of the bosses was wearing an N95, but it didn’t look like he had it fit properly.

      We are, I *think*, technically allowed to be open under our state’s stay-at-home order. Personally I don’t think there’s anything even a little essential about what I do. But honestly, what makes me the sourest of all was my boss’ response when I asked–after our governor *begged* people for PPE–if he was going to donate our excess gloves and masks. He just laughed and said “(Expletive), no!”

      That was a week or two ago. I hope he’s changed his mind, but I kind of doubt it.

    5. Chaordic One*

      They’ve posted notices and sent out e-mails. Supposedly they’ve added hand sanitizers. I’ve found a single dispenser located near the main elevator in the center of the building, although most employees don’t use the elevator and instead use the stairs at either end of the building. The restrooms are noticeably reeking of the smell of chemicals.

      Our office doesn’t have regular trash cans for workers. We do have them for “classified waste” which is any paperwork that might have information with someone’s personal information on it. If you want a trash can by your desk, you have to bring it yourself and empty it yourself. Most people empty their personal trash cans in the large trash can in the break room. Anyway, for the first time in memory, they’ve actually had the janitorial staff empty our personal trash cans.

      That’s about it. People are wiping down their work areas including keyboards and mice and phones, but they’re doing it with cleaners they’ve brought from home.

  172. Krabby*

    My partner got laid off from his new job after just two months due to covid. He has remote contract employment to fall back on from his PhD advisor, so this isn’t a huge financial crisis for us. However, this was his first job outside of academia and his first job in our new city (we moved across the country last year).

    I would normally tell him to keep this job off of his resume, but it was a foot in the door in a new industry, as well as in a city that is famous for prioritizing local hires. His manager is also willing to give him a good reference. Is this a case where it’s worth it to keep a 2 month job on his resume?

    1. Kimmy Schmidt*

      I think this is one instance where leaving the job on might make sense. It’s not performance related at all, and there will be a lot of people in similar situations because of all the layoffs.

    2. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      Being laid off is not the same as being fired, therefore he should continue to keep this on his resume and can mention why his time there was so short. Everyone is going to understand the “cuts” due to COVID-19 for awhile.

      I’d also encourage him to remember that the supervisor may be able to hire him back when things get back on track even. So he should most certainly keep them in that network and on the resume!

        1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

          The OP of the comment did say their manager was willing to give a good reference :)
          And they may be networked elsewhere where they can help even more, if job openings their colleagues have and they think the OP’s SO would be a good choice for that position.

    3. MissDisplaced*

      In this unusual circumstance, leave it on and take the reference for it. Hiring managers are going to understand careers being disrupted.

      Far in the future it can be removed once he’s got more time established in that area.

    4. Krabby*

      Thanks for everyone’s advice! I’m so used to cutting jobs on my resume if they lasted less than 6 months, I really wasn’t sure if this was a special case.

  173. Not a Rich B***h*

    I just got off a department meeting that’s normally faculty only, but they decided to allow to staff to join this time. I think one of the faculty members forgot we were there because he started talking about how “none of us need the stimulus checks.” Jeez. Staff don’t make close to three figures like y’all do. We barely make over minimum wage and our health insurance is really expensive. It was very “let them eat cake” and I’m disappointed he wasn’t more aware.

    1. MeguminDoppel*

      That’s annoying. If he doesn’t need it, he can donate it! If he gets it at all, most of the profs in our STEM schools won’t qualify for it…but everyone over here in Liberal Arts, Education, and Social Work probably will. :)

    2. Pam*

      I sat in on a couple of meetings when we went to online classes/virtual advising. The faculty have done a lot more whining than the students

  174. Jessen*

    So I’m supposed to be recording what I do every day while I’m working from home. The trouble is I’m mostly doing a whole lot of nothing. I don’t think this is actually a surprise to anyone – I’m in a helpdesk role. Everyone who can work from home has been sent to work from home; everyone who can’t work from home and isn’t providing a critical service has been sent home. Most (but not all) of the people who would be generating work for me are in the latter category, and I don’t have a job that has long term projects to work on. So I need a nicer way to say “did about 15min worth of actual work and then remained in the vicinity of the screen for 8h in case someone actually needed me.”

    I’m going to start using work time to take more classes next week. Which aren’t strictly related to my job either but should help my own career future.

    2. Overwhelmed*

      Yeah I hate this. Like making yourself available should be enough if that is basically your job and that is not your fault if things are slow due to this current moment.

      1. Jessen*

        To be fair, I don’t really forsee any penalty to me. I think this is more a case of writing one policy to cover everyone and relying on management to have common sense when reviewing the results. Most people covered by this policy will actually have long-term projects and it’s already common to require time tracking of which project an employee is working on at any given time.

  175. Trixie*

    My former boss text me this week. She’s taking a new role (big move from our organization) and looking to bring me on as well. Since we parted ways, she’s asked me back twice and this will make third time. Safe to say, I think she likes me on her time. (Positive vibes here.) She also knows I’m looking to move closer to family and have been for a while. Sounds like she is willing to have me work as long as I can until I find new job.

    Not thrilled about changing jobs in this climate, but this new position in healthcare may offer more security than my current one does. I’m not looking to leave higher education but this new title/experience may make it easier to transition back at a later date.

    I’m grateful to be employed, every day. Since my boss left six months ago, it’s been a struggle. But even if I’m not “happy” in new role, I’ll be in a better place than I am now. So if this works out and she commits to an offer, that will be just one more surprise I didn’t see coming for 2020.

  176. Deirdre*

    I know this seems like ‘first world problems’ during this horrible crisis but I’m so stressed despondent. I work in an essential sector. I am an admin officer in a team of 6 and we all work for different managers. I’m so tired that for some reason I end up getting all the jobs to do and although I can keep up I’m feeling so resentful that it seems to be ‘me’ that ends up getting all the meetings to organise, all the equipment required and if something goes wrong (which is happening as other departments send staff to WFH) I’m getting it in the neck. My manager says it’s because they know I’ll ‘get it done’ but this happened in the latter part of last year and I became REALLY overwhelmed with the amount of work I had and ended up crying at work. I had a meltdown at work today with my manager and feel completely unsupported by her but what I want to do now is forget it all and put it out of my mind. Any tips anyone – basically I want to enjoy my chill out weekend before I go back to work on Monday. Thanks if you’ve got tips please.

    1. The Man, Becky Lynch*

      I hope it’s a little relief for you to at least have this out in the “open” by venting here at least! That’s part of what makes me feel better, so I can only hope it helps others.

      Just because the world is in a whirlwind here right now doesn’t mean that you can’t be stressed with your direct situation. It’s okay to feel this way and it’s okay to be frustrated over your circumstances!

      I think the best way to detach is to try to do something you enjoy. Binge watch something you enjoy this weekend. Make a dinner you really enjoy an veg out, you deserve it.

    2. 1idea*

      That sounds really frustrating! My suggestion is to put it on your list of accomplishments for your review and/or future job search/resume notes. Go-to person for x, y, z. Also, why is it always you who will ‘get it done’? Maybe you are the best at follow-through, most efficient, committed to always getting excellent results, a great problem-solver, etc. You can make note of these good qualities for the same purposes. Not only will you then have the info ready when you need it, you can use it to help reframe the situation: maybe it is evidence of what a great employee you are, and you can enjoy that feeling and displace the frustration a little. And if you make notes, it can help get it out of your head for the weekend. I also agree with the person who suggested doing something you enjoy or feel is relaxing, or spoil yourself a little bit.

    3. valentine*

      Cut back to a reasonable amount. Tell your manager she needs to push back. A manager posted this in a work thread here. I think the employee’s pseudonym was Marie. They really did not want to go to bat for Marie, even though, if she left, no one would know how to do stuff.

    4. username required*

      I’ve been in a somewhat similar position when I moved out of admin work into supply management but the team still kept coming to me because it was easier for them to send me stuff knowing I’d complete the task, rather than my replacement who does bare minimum and has to be sent multiple emails to do even that.

      I know its easier said than done and I felt horrible doing it but I redirected everything back to the replacement, every single time. I copied their manager and my manager – new admin is handling that now, please follow up with them. No doing something “just this once” as it would never end. Can you do that with the admin team?

      And when I got home at the end of the week I mentally closed the door to my office as I walked in to the house, blasted music and danced around like a loon. I baked bread or tried a new recipe – anything to keep my mind off work.

      Hope you have a wonderful restful weekend.

  177. Seeking Second Childhood*

    Ending the day with a whimper: Internet’s been glitchy all day. I shut down, clocked out, and THEN found that my last document isn’t shutting down. It’s going to LOOK like I’m working late & unpaid when really it’s just the computer glitching out over the internet.

  178. "Helpful" Sister*

    Hello everyone! If anyone has laboratory experience, looking for advice for my younger brother. He graduated last May with a bachelor’s degree in Microbiology and has not found a job in his field yet (applications but no interviews yet, and I’ve directed him here to learn how to write a strong resume and cover letter). He has minimal lab experience (worked in one of the campus labs at his University, one semester paid and one as a volunteer, doing PCR, serial dilutions, optical density measurements, antibiotic overlay assay, making stocks of reagents, things like that).

    ANYWAY – he is open to help with his job search but I’m in a different field. Any suggestions of what types of jobs to look for, different avenues within this field, etc. would be greatly appreciated! I feel like there’s probably a need for lab workers right now but I don’t know of specific companies to look for, or niche job boards, etc. Would love to hear anything that anyone has to say. Thanks so much!

    1. Zona the Great*

      Depending on the state, Marijuana control labs are necessary for safety reporting. Most states require them.

    2. Free Meercats*

      Has he looked into wastewater labs? The only reason that sewage treatment plants have people is to keep the microbes happy, they do all the work. And the larger plants all have microbiology people on staff. They are usually called Lab Techs or something similar and usually do other lab analyses as well.

      Plus it’s secure; as long as we have sewers, we’ll have treatment plants.

      1. Anonny*

        I can’t speak to the job market right now, but it may be hard to get into anything without more hands-on lab experience. A few avenues to explore if he hasn’t:
        – networking with microbiology/biology alumni from his university
        -even though it often gets bashed here, his university career center if it is targeted for science/biology and not all majors as a whole
        -professional associations for microbiologists
        -signing up with temping agencies who specifically cater to science/healthcare clients. Eons ago in the U.S., sometimes Kelly Scientific or Adecco. Honestly, in my industry a bachelor’s degree like that + a school year of glorified dishwashing (not knocking it, just a rite of passage for everyone) would only qualify you for a temp job.

        (source: I’m in a related field that uses the same techniques in the lab. Microbiology majors sometimes work in it, but that would be considered a very generic degree for the work)

    3. Em*

      Very late to this but look into anything that involves animals. Go to a medical research facility’s job page, like a large University, and search the word animal. Lab animal research can’t/won’t stop right now. Or search animal on any university’s job board near you, even if you don’t think they’re doing biomedical research.

  179. Lucy P*

    Has anyone started filling out the PPP application? Even though credit history is not supposed to be a part of this, several local banks are still asking for 3 years of tax returns. One of the banks said they didn’t have any answers today so call back on Monday.

    Then the app form itself doesn’t make sense. It asks for the average monthly payroll, then the 2.5x amount. Under that are check boxes that signify what you’re using it for (payroll, rent, mortgage, utilities). It never asks for the mortgage, rent and utility amounts. Are we supposed to pay those based on average payroll wages?
    Also, average payroll would be less for last year because we had several hourly people who had to take extended leave without pay due to illness (they had exhausted all of their leave and advanced leave).

    1. Sally Cat*

      Did one yesterday. You get the money based on the payroll amount. You can use it for payroll, rent, mortgage and utilities. However, if you use it to pay other things in addition to payroll any portion that exceeds 25% of the loan won’t be forgiven. My bank’s site kept freezing so it took forever.

  180. Retail not Retail*

    HR people! Priority help!

    I work at a non-profit and apparently not many people are taking advantage of that for the PSLF, because it was hard work getting the paperwork signed last spring. Well it’s somehow spring again (???!!!!??? how does this keep happening, time moving forward) and I need to get a form signed.

    What is the etiquette for this? Also I probably should call my loan company but how are HR/whoever departments handling more routine issues in the midst of all this?

    1. Anonymous ball of anxiety*

      What form do you need signed? If I remember correctly, it’s recommended that you submit the employer certification each year but not mandatory. You do have to update your income annually, but I don’t think you need anything from your employer for that – pay stubs or tax returns should do. And after all this COVID chaos calms down, you might want to talk with someone in HR about sharing info about PSLF more widely in your organization so other employees can take advantage of it. Our HR team regularly sends out updates about student loan stuff and is generally really supportive because they see it as a benefit to staff that the organization doesn’t have to pay anything for.

      1. Retail not Retail*

        Ah DANGIT you’re right!

        I waited like ten minutes after posting this to email her the one from last year I sent her that didn’t have any dates on it.

        Yeah, it’s really weird – there aren’t many people here with degrees above a BA/BS I guess? Who’ve graduated since 2007? I know in my operations area no one has a degree in this topic if they have one. I certainly don’t.

        1. Anonymous ball of anxiety*

          Lol. Well, even if the employer certification isn’t mandatory, I think you’re smart to get it each year. Early in my husband’s PSLF journey, he wasn’t really thinking about it and I think vaguely planned to certify everything at the very end. Then he found himself without a way to contact anyone from one of his earlier jobs – it had been a small nonprofit with a lot of turnover, and the new leadership didn’t know him or care much about following up on his request. He eventually got someone to sign a form for him, but now he’s religious about annual certification. And it’s so nice to see those certified months pile up. :)

  181. Cap*

    I’m a freelance translator, and I just got my first book project! I’ve mostly done (fairly short) articles up until now. Does anyone have any tips, warnings about mistakes to avoid, etc.? The book is a non-fiction social science work, if that matters.

    1. Jules the First*

      Do yourself a vocabulary list – read the whole thing before you start translating and make a list of terms that repeat across multiple chapters and decide NOW how you’re going to translate them so that you are consistent across all the chapters. Have fun!

      1. valentine*

        If it’s a series, consider what the future titles will be. In Spanish, Die Hard is La jungla de cristal, though it’s only relevant to the original.

  182. CatMintCat*

    I am a teacher in a primary (K-6) school. We are currently almost entirely working offsite planning for distance learning for the kids starting next term (late April) and experimenting with platforms and willing kids this last two weeks of this term. Two people per day are at school to deal with the two children who still come to school, because our government refuses to close the schools.

    My Principal is, at best, a bit of a micro-manager, but he’s basically a nice guy and cares for his school, staff and students very much, so we put up with it. But, now that we are at home, he’s gone into overdrive. He has mandated we complete each day a diary of everything we do. He has set out our break times, and we have a (minimum) one hour staff meeting by Skype or Adobe Connect at least once, sometimes twice, per day and is constantly on email (last email on Thursday night was actually 2.50am Friday morning. First email Friday morning was 7.23am). He’s driving us all nuts.

    Our union has actually said we don’t have to do the diaries and, if he pushes back, to do them with our complete hours worked (the diary officially finishes at 3pm; I’ve worked until at least 7pm every day, so have most of my colleagues). That feels passive-aggressive to me.

    I am really disliking working from home anyway, and find this is just an added burden that makes me feel less trusted than the six year olds I teach. Any ideas on how to back him off a bit and get him to treat us like the professionals we are? Because, we are all in this seriously and working hard to find ways to make teaching little kids by computer work out.

  183. The Dread Pirate Buttercup*

    My work is making me join a Facebook group to keep track of the furlough. I kind of hate that I have to start a Facebook account. Any tips on how to avoid the drama that made me leave Facebook (in 2013) in the first place?

    1. WellRed*

      Create the account just for work, lock it down to anyone else and then don’t log on any more then the bare minimum required. Not sure how company plans to use this.

      1. MissDisplaced*

        Agreed! Just do the minimum asked for during furlough (such as a quick check-in). Avoid all drama. If anyone asks, say you’re Not Into Facebook.

        1. The Dread Pirate Buttercup*

          Thank you both! I’m thinking I’m only adding people in my (small) department and then accepting requests from anyone outside the department, putting a disclaimer to the effect of “This is so I can check the work Facebook page. You guys know I’m not the Facebooking type,” limiting my check-ins to once per day, and browsing incognito in a different browser than I use for everything else.

    2. MissDisplaced*

      Can you join under your work email / work name?
      Like: Buttercup@PirateCo
      When this is over you can delete the account or suspend it.

      I do that on Twitter for my work because I need to do the social media for my group. And my personal Twitter is not for prying eyes.

      1. The Dread Pirate Buttercup*

        I joined under my phone number. No other social media are attached to that, as far as I can tell. Good advice!

  184. 1idea*

    Question for supply chain people! I worked for several years in an administrative role in which I spent a lot of money on behalf of the company daily. I was given budgets to work with, empowered to make decisions, maintained/started/ended vendor relationships, updated the financial records for tracking the money for the finance department (at first in a spreadsheet, then in their system when they upgraded). It was all internal – office/event/travel type buying. Does this count as purchasing experience? I did not issue POs and I had no knowledge of the procedures for the buyers there. My feeling is that it does count as purchasing experience, because of the responsibility and skills needed, even without those last two things, however not as supply chain experience. Later I had a job which started out as purchasing for manufacturing (with POs and the whole deal) and turned into supply chain management, and that one I feel like should be both purchasing and supply chain experience, since I was buying directly for the products being manufactured and worked based on knowledge related to that. However I never went to school for this or joined an org and did networking about it, so I’m not sure if there are norms around counting experience that may go against my gut inclinations here. I’m applying to new jobs now and want to correctly represent my experience and target appropriate roles to apply for. Thanks for any insight!

  185. Don’t Stand Too Close To Me*

    Was just laid off yesterday, had a feeling it would come it the execution was so cold and sloppy and really showed me how they view not only myself but hundreds of other where I work.

    Anyway, my question is how should I go about job hunting during a bloody pandemic?! I know there’s grocery work that I could apply to, but I know I’d just be in panic-mode everyday and it wouldn’t do well for my mental health.

    What remote work positions or industries would I be able to look into as someone with mostly retail customer service experience.

    2. Diahann Carroll*

      Online customer service jobs may be available for retailers – I know Amazon was recently hiring remote CSRs to handle all of the questions about Whole Foods deliveries and Prime shipments.

    3. Overwhelmed*

      Ugh I am so sorry to hear about your situation. Many employers are showing their true colors it seems.

  186. Free Meercats*

    I normally (always) keep my personal cell on vibrate. But that’s the number my grandboss will use to contact me while I’m WFH, so I turned on the ringer. Dang, this thing makes So. Many. Noises! And since I don’t normally hear them, I don’t know what they each mean.

    Not a huge problem, I know.

    1. The Dread Pirate Buttercup*

      No advice but so mympathy! My phone turns on noises whenever I use a certain app that I have to use every so often, and it’s mind-blowingly irritating when I forget to turn them off.

    2. CW*

      For me, it’s not a huge deal but I am easily startled. So if I hear a text tone “ding” or my phone suddenly blasts the ringtone, I jump. Yes, it’s not pleasant.

    3. Retail not Retail*

      I switched from being your typical “my phone has a ringer? what’s that?” millennial to “my ringer is silent when i’m at the movie theater. With you.” worried hen of a daughter so I quickly recognized emails (meh) vs texts (a peek) vs ringing (!!!!!!!) even though all 3 vibrate.

      I have the kind of job where we take personal phone calls if we need to. And I told everyone when my mom was told she was high-risk. It’s a great cover for my anxiety – no I’m not tense because of me, i’m just worried about my mom.

  187. RUKiddingMe*

    Husband’s day job went from “reducing hours by 5 per week,” to “half time,“ to “but you are the most valuable (true) so we will split you between two locations, 20 at one 20 at another so you, and only you will stay on and at full time,” “to eight week layoff starting immediately..” all within a week.

    ::eyeroll emoji::

    It hurts. Not as bad as a lot of people, but damn what a ride in only seven days.

  188. Me*

    Has anyone started job searching with the intention of working while finishing their degree? I’m supposed to graduate in December 2021, but all my core classes (including my capstone project) will be finished by May of ’21, and the few classes I need to finish up I will probably be able to take online. Is it unrealistic to start looking for entry-level jobs before the fall? If it isn’t, how should I explain that I’m basically done, just finishing up online?

    1. Chaordic One*

      I did this during the depths of the dark 2008 recession. At that time I had no luck finding clerical work and so I was mostly looking for retail jobs and I could not find any employer who would consider hiring me (when I told them I was going to school) because they wanted me to be on call 24/7. I ended up purposely omitting that I was going to school on weekends. It turned out that I was not ever scheduled to work during the same time as I was in class for the first 6 months of the job. When there was finally a conflict, I called in sick at work. I figured if they fired me, so be it. But they didn’t and I worked there for several months more before I quit to move onto something better.

  189. LW1*

    I know I’m way late and at the very bottom of the thread. I’m letter writer one from Thursday’s pay, accused of abusing PTO. Wanted to post that HR was incredibly supportive after I contacted them. Luckily, my test results finally came in negative and I’m cleared to go to work Monday!

    And in other good news, we’ve been in this huge battle and had an equity study done for our entire departments’ employees who aren’t upper management (remember 80 percent turn over at a University/hospital). Anyway! It finally happened and was completed and I got around a 12 percent raise, which unsurprisingly to me, is the figure I asked for the last time I was promoted.

    2. Jedi Squirrel*

      Congratulations! Glad you’re healthy.

      Also, it’s good to know you have a decent HR department.

    4. LGC*

      I’m so glad that you tested negative!

      (And also that you have an awesome HR and that you got a raise!)

  190. Hexiva*

    Uuuugh my mom’s still working Outside because she’s a caregiver and thus essential – but she’s over 60 so she’s At Risk – and we just got news that her client’s parents want to visit over the weekend, during my mom’s shift, increasing the number of people she’s exposed to at work to 6. And I know those parents aren’t social distancing or in quarantine, augh.

    Both the company and the parents have the power to limit the risk here, but they’re not doing anything to take precautions. Why can’t the parents stay home? Better yet, why can’t the company temporarily designate one or two workers to go into quarantine with the client, instead of making that house an ensemble cast of vectors?

    1. KristinaL*

      What is wrong with her client’s parents? Do they not know how to use zoom? Do they think they’re impervious to Covid-19? Do they not care about their health or anyone elses?

    2. Drama Llama*

      It is an issue of trust. The reality is that families of disabled and elderly relatives have found out the hard way that you need to stay heavily involved in their care because not not all carers are competent or trustworthy. Look to the Royal Commissions to see the really horrific examples of the abuse and/or neglect that can occur. On a lessor scale, my sister-in-law is mentally disabled and has carers visit her at home to assist her with day-to-day activities such as laundry, meal preparation, grocery shopping etc. There have been times when carers have not shown up (but put in timesheets to say the work was done), shown up but not completed important activities such as picking up medication, or ensuring SIL is staying on top of cleaning/has healthy meals sorted etc. Once, a carer was caught by a family friend putting personal purchases onto their disabled child’s credit card. Obviously there many amazing people working as carers who are dedicated and great with their clients, such as your mother. However, SIL is unable to advocate for herself if something is wrong and if my in-laws were not as involved in her ongoing care, many neglects would not be noticed. I am completely sympathetic to the parents of vulnerable people making sure that they are healthy and well cared for. The risks are too great not to. Unfortunately this may be a case where your mother needs to assess the risks of her job to determine if it is safe for her to continue in the current pandemic.

      1. Hexiva*

        That’s valid – I am a disabled person too and my mother is also MY caregiver. With that said, I still think that given that they live in the next town over, there had to be a better way to handle this than dropping in to expose everyone to some extra virus.

        I’m not sure how involved they ARE in her care. I guess that’s not really something I can even assess, as a third party who’s never even met her.

  191. Girl with the yellow umbrella*

    Not really a question but an anecdote I hope you’ll all find amusing…

    I work for the the government (not in USA) and the team I work on tends to deal with people changing their names and not declaring it where they should and what have you. We don’t normally speak to members of the public directly (more their representatives) but given the current situation have had to start to do so to speed things up.

    I got a call the other day from young woman (early 20s, new to workforce) because she had an initial in her name but hadn’t told us what it stood for (I know some people just have initials in their name but in our country it tends to be rare) – so she gets on the phone, passes security, and then is all “I AM GOING TO GIVE PERMISSION FOR MY FATHER TO TALK TO YOU ON MY BEHALF” so I’m like okay… then the dad gets on the phone, and it turns out that a few years ago, his family had a really bad run of things, like just loads of bad luck, and his way of coping was to become invested into numerology (where letters correlate with numbers and your Name has a core value and things – I didn’t completely understand) so he’d worked out the value of all of his family’s names, and then had their names changed by deed poll (and made them sign forms by telling them it was for insurance and things, so that’s shady) to add random letters in to improve the value of their names. His daughter never got over all the madness and refused to acknowledge this random letter in her name therefore made him do all the talking.

    That whole interaction brightened my week up in all this, and I hope it does for someone else too! Take care everybody x

  192. Retail not Retail*

    Does anyone else have workplace issues that have vanished or shrunk?

    Here’s a question I had – asked and answered by my supervisor who I knew would take it the right way – that is now poof! Irrelevant. And not one y’all could handle anyway.

    We’ve kinda had a higher turnover of work release guys than usual and had subs come in on the weekend including one guy who came one day (and will probably never return alas). And enough of these new and passing through guys say things like “oh i’ve got it” when it’s really not necessary. Sometimes I’d finish carrying/throwing whatever, sometimes I’d be like aight this is awkward/heavy and you’re volunteering.

    But it got me wondering their reasons. I had 3 explanations and I asked the guy who came one time and assured him there was no wrong answer. 1 – most of them are small town southern guys and they’ll help a woman out. 2 – they’re offering to help ME in particular bc they think i’m weak, clumsy, or incompetent. 3 – they’re interpreting the work release or my manager’s instructions in a certain way.

    The answer is one. And like I said, I’d take them up on it if it was hard or I was feeling lazy, but with the guys who stuck around they figured out pretty quickly who’d do the work with them and who wouldn’t so it was just early awkwardness.

    And if my pain in the butt partner whose sexism i objected to saw these interactions, i’m sure it’d make his head spin. “Why do women like it when you compliment them?” he asked my supervisor one day. “Because I’m not a jerk!” he didn’t say.

    Anyway… the guys are gone. Things are much quieter and we’re proving generally incompetent at their tasks ha but I’m having fun mucking and mowing and getting dirty.

  193. Oof*

    Since working from home, I have discovered something is living in the walls of my office. I can hear the scratching, I can hear the squeaks – I hope they will let me work in my empty building, as I prefer corona to rabies!

    1. Jaid*

      This sounds like the start of a Lovecraft story. Let us know when the proportions of your office start to change!

    2. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      Ohhh no I’ve just recently discovered an unwanted visitor too. I’ve been hearing sounds in the wall for a month or so (but NOW my partner chooses to share that he heard that a year or so ago).. an intermittent scratching and scraping. I don’t see any way an animal could get in…

      Today (we have 3 cats) I found a dead mouse in the room where the noise was. I’m hoping they somehow resolved it for me!

  194. RadManCF*

    So, a little bright spot of sorts. In one of the recent short answer posts, a commenter had responded to one of the answers by asking who is still hiring. I had mentioned that in Minnesota, the Department of Corrections is hiring, and that as the crisis was ramping up, was one of few state agencies that did not have funding redirected from it in preparation for the crisis. I’m currently in what should have been my last semester of law school (thanks COVID-19), and due to my wife’s health issues and the general difficulty of the job market for attorneys, I had decided that practicing law isn’t going to be the best career path for me. I had been giving some thought to public safety as a career path for the past year, particularly DNR and corrections. MN DOC in particular has been doing a great deal of hiring since the end of 2018, when they had the first two line-of-duty deaths in the department’s history. My time in law school has included a number of externships, from which I’ve gained a skillset that seems to me would be transferrable to public safety fields, things like investigation, people-watching, and interacting with offenders. To cut to the chase, about a month ago, I applied at MN DOC, then attended a hiring fair at MCF-Oak Park Heights on the 10th, passed the civil service exam and interview that day, and this past Tuesday, I was informed that I have passed my background checks, and now I’m just waiting for the next academy to be organized.

  195. Daji*

    Had a stressful week at work last week and went on a much-needed staycation, only to be pulled into a Zoom meeting yesterday where I got laid off. (This is the third time I’ve been laid off in my career, but the other two were contract roles and the layoff was an early/unexpected end).

    Applied to about ~30 positions over the last two days, was reached out by one company for my interview availability (scheduling TBD). I really liked my coworkers and my old job so I’m disappointed at the turn of events and I had also been hoping to stay for quite a while, as my resume looks a bit hoppy (contract roles, 1 horrible job I walked out on that’s no longer on my resume, and 1 job I left to get a step up). I graduated <5 years ago so I think I should be alright.

    I'm still anxious about leaving my home as I worry about being attacked in a hate crime but I can't really do much about it as I still need to visit the pharmacy every so often. Trying to stay positive and looking forward to getting a new job and learning new things, I guess.

    1. Girl with the yellow umbrella*

      My anxiety is massively spiking at the moment too. I wish you the best of luck and my support, I hope it helps to know someone is thinking of you x

  196. NicoleK*

    Just need to vent. Since the team began working from home about two weeks ago, Boss has insisted on holding two stand up meetings. One in the morning and one in the afternoon. Per Boss, two options were provided for flexibility. Note: Boss is extremely ineffective as a manager and terrible at communication. The issues with the two stand up meetings: 1. The morning meeting is poorly attended 2. Boss typically gives more updates during the afternoon meeting and 3. Some updates are shared in one meeting, but not the other. Earlier this week, at the urging of my colleagues, I suggested to Boss that we only hold one meeting and notes be distributed afterwards. Boss agreed and stated the one meeting a day schedule would start next week. Today, during the afternoon meeting, Boss reversed her decision, made a halfassed attempt at addressing the issues around the two meetings, and again cited that she liked the flexibility. Ugh. It’s going to be more of the same thing; terrible communication and people not getting the info to do their jobs efficiently. My boss sucks and that’s not going to change.

    1. MissDisplaced*

      I would maybe try suggesting again that she try holding just the one meeting at the most optimum time (sounds like mid-afternoon) and send out a bullet list immediately after.

      And ugh! I don’t know why some executives simply refuse to listen to the excellent suggestions from their workers. This is not for the convenience of the manager, but for everyone else.

  197. Unemployed & Thinking*

    Hi everyone,
    I have lost my job to Covid-19 last month. It was a job I love to do, but the industry was badly impacted by the pandemic.

    Now as I think about job search after the pandemic is over, I am thinking of choosing more stable organizations and companies to apply to jobs to. One of those entities would be government jobs.

    I heard that government jobs are hard to get into and that they involved panel interviews. I wanted to ask what are government jobs panel interviews like? And are there any social etiquette in government job interviews that are different from corporate job interviews? Do you ask the government panel for their business cards after the interview?

    Then there is the possibility that I will fail the government interview, and would have to go back to searching for corporate or nonprofit jobs. What additional approaches should I take in job searching after this pandemic experience? I am aiming for a stable industry that won’t be too harshly affected if we experience another pandemic again.

    1. RUKiddingMe*

      If you’re in the US…

      I heard the other day that the post office is hiring right now.

      Despite their protests to the contrary they are a government job, and one that is traditionally hard to break into unless you hit it st just the right time…like now.

      1. Chaordic One*

        Protests to the contrary? What you talkin’ ’bout?

        Aside from some rural carriers hired as independent contractors I don’t think that the post office has ever claimed that their employees were not federal employees.

    2. LQ*

      So some government jobs things (state experience here, not fed). Everyone gets asked the exact same questions (some managers will deviate from this, but here at least they aren’t supposed to), often multi-part and you need to answer all the parts. People get scored and get jobs based on the scores.

      Some government jobs are hard to get, others are not. My experience with government is there is a strong promote from within going on. (Ever single person on the leadership team for my department started in an entry-level position, like the most entry-level jobs you can imagine, call center, desk clerk, etc.) This isn’t exclusively true, but if you really want in then consider what the entry-level in your area/field looks like and if you could handle that. Every time we’ve interviewed entry-level folks there is always a “could this person be promoted to something else” kind of hum about things.

      There are a lot of government jobs where the thing that everyone hates happens. Everyone already knows who they want to get the job but they are required to go through the interview process (I think this is part of why people think jobs are hard to get because promotions don’t happen the way they do elsewhere so it is a false appearance of job openings). I have seen folks who were the shoe in not get it if they really flubbed or if someone else was really extraordinary, but it’s got to be a big cut above.

    3. Two-Time Fed*

      It’s going to vary from agency to agency. When I worked for the Post Office I was first summoned to take a test. I must have passed, because a couple of weeks later I was summoned to a group interview with other applicants, followed by 2 very brief individual interviews that didn’t ask any tough questions, then told to show up for new employee orientation and training.

      Later I was hired by the IRS and there wasn’t any interview at all. Months after applying I received an offer by email, which I accepted, and told to show up for finger-printing and an I.D. photo one day and then an orientation a few days after that.

    4. Brooklyn Nine-Niner*

      I work for my State Legislature. The interview really wasn’t that difficult. They called me in, 2 people interviewed me, asked a few questions, and that was pretty much it. Obviously different governments may do it differently, but that wad my experience.

  199. Brooklyn Nine-Niner*

    So has anyone had experience with an MLM trying to recruit you? The other day, one of my friends tried to get me to apply for an MLM he worked for. Thankfully, I did my research and found out it’s an MLM before I interviewed.

  200. Hiding behind the curtain*

    My company recently started using some new software for certain key functions (to prevent ratting myself out, I’m describing the situation but not the software). The rollout started about a year ago. Some units have been using it from the beginning. My unit hasn’t needed it yet, but we’ve moving in that direction.

    The training has all been by recorded videos and webinars presented by different company employees, ranging from managers to admins. The videos are mostly quickies on different features of the software, and Schoolhouse Rock they ain’t. I don’t know who’s choosing the trainers or on what criteria, but some of them plain suck. One spent most of their session telling everybody what a great trainer they were, leaving little time to cover their topic. Recently someone who’s used the software for months presented a webinar for our unit. They talked a mile a minute and made remarks about us as if we didn’t know the software yet because we’re technophobes (they KNOW our unit hasn’t needed the software till now). As my coworkers asked questions, it struck me that we also need written guidelines for the software.

    Since then, I’ve been wondering why, since the software is so important, management opted for do-it-yourself training. We’re a big company that can well afford professional trainers as well as documentation so everyone can have the same comprehensive information source. Instead, everyone has to take their own notes, and if you need help you have to find and replay a video, or else contact one of the designated “subject matter experts” like the brilliant trainer and the motormouth.

    Is this this how training is conducted everywhere now? Am I hopelessly behind the times?

  201. Cimorene*

    This is mostly a vent to a safe space…with all the usual caveats about recognizing how lucky i am to still be healthy and that everyone in my house still has jobs. With that framing up front…I am losing my mind ;) I have a 2 year old. My husband cannot do his job remotely and his work is considered “essential” (although highly debatable IMO) so he is still going to work every single day in an office with very little precautions. My job can be done fully remotely, but I am on the executive team. So while i work for a super flexible, family friendly, supportive org, i am in a critical role that is responsible for making many of the decisions during this super stressful time. I manage 3 different departments of people that need support, answers and feedback. And I am trying to do all this by myself while trying to manage/entertain a toddler who wants constant attention. To make things more challenging, quarantine and the disruption to the week one routine also seems to have triggered the terrible twos, a major sleep regression (i.e. my perfect sleeper has stopped sleeping and cries all night), and kiddo also has four teeth coming in. I have no idea how to mentally and emotionally handle the stress of what seems like a situation that is not ending any time soon. Anyway, just needed to get that off my chest, thanks y’all.

    1. Jambon-Beurre*

      Are you able to switch a bull of your work to the hours when your little one is in bed? Check and emails at different times throughout the day like before he/she awakes and when they nap?

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