open thread – January 15-16, 2021

by Alison Green on January 15, 2021

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about (that includes school). If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please do not repost it here, as it may be in my queue to answer.

You may also like:
{ 1,146 comments }

{ 1,146 comments… read them below }

  1. Should I apply*

    Resume advice needed, how to show increasing responsibility without a title change?

    I have been at my current role for 6 years. While my title hasn’t changed I have had increasing levels of responsibility. I want to show that growth but am not sure the best way to do that. I am sure I am overthinking this but isn’t that half the fun of writing a resume?

    Ways I have considered
    Putting is as a separate accomplishment, with project specific accomplishments underneath. Example:
    Increased responsibility from technical contributor to technical lead to project manager & technical lead.
    Developed new method for drinking coffee, that increased sales revenue by 100%
    Identified key coffee drinker needs that were not being met, developed solutions, and successfully pitched project to business leaders.
    Putting the level of responsibility for each accomplishment
    As Technical lead developed new method for drinking coffee, that increased sales revenue by 100%
    As Project Manager & Technical lead identified key coffee drinker needs that were not being met, developed solutions, and successfully pitched project to business leaders
    Leaving off the level of responsibility
    Developed new method for drinking coffee, that increased sales revenue by 100%
    Identified key coffee drinker needs that were not being met, developed solutions, and successfully pitched project to business leaders.

    Also when listing your accomplishments do you list them chronologically or in order of importance?

    1. Who moved my cheese?*

      What about a line in your cover letter that describes the increasing levels of responsibility? Your resume example also looks good. I list my most impressive and relevant accomplishments first.

    2. AndersonDarling*

      I was at a job for 8 years with a generic title, so I list my top 4 accomplishments on my resume along with a blurb describing my role. As long as your accomplishments are the kind that you would have at a higher level for your role, it should be clear that you grew into the role and made those achievements. I wouldn’t worry about showing the growth, as long as you have strong accomplishments, it will be clear that you are at the top of your game.

    3. Anon for today*

      I’d do this two ways:
      List out the roles:
      Technical Lead, 2015-2018
      Project Manager and Technical Lead, 2018-present

      … and then organize accomplishments by importance, and within that by increasing level of responsibility:
      As Technical lead developed new method for drinking coffee, that increased sales revenue by 100%
      As Project Manager & Technical lead identified key coffee drinker needs that were not being met, developed solutions, and successfully pitched project to business leaders

      1. Anon for today*

        Oh, to be able to edit! I know you said you didn’t have title changes, but if your role has changed it seems reasonable to note that.

        Good luck!

        1. Toxic Workplace Survivor*

          I agree with this; I had a job for many years with increasing responsibilities and although I never had a formal title change, I was able to break it up into 3 chunks with titles that no one I worked with would have argued with (think Teapot QA worker, Bestselling Teapot Model QA worker, Lead Teapot QA worker) – while there wasn’t formally a team lead in that role, if anyone at the company was asked who knew the most about Teapot QA and could problem solve, etc. they would have named me.

          That said, if you feel more comfortable with designated roles only, I’d agree with other commenters that you can list your most impressive and recent accomplishments. It’s normal if you grew in the role to the point where you were doing more senior tasks, and hiring managers will understand that progress.

      2. Momma Bear*

        This is how I did it. Had the overall length of time with the company and then the length of time in each role.

    4. Octopus*

      I think you should list the level of responsibility (Technical Lead, etc.), but perhaps not put it first in the bullet point, and instead incorporate it at the end, so the focus is on your accomplishment. E.g., “Developed new method for drinking coffee…leading/managing/driving,etc. effort as Technical Lead.”

      1. should i apply?*

        I do like this idea, leading with the role seemed a little awkward, as it seemed to be more of a job duty than an accomplishment. However, I am in product development and there is a significant difference between be a contributor and a lead, and now I am an acting project manager even though my title doesn’t reflect any of that.

        1. Glitsy Gus*

          I think you could put a line exactly stating that: “Acted as Project Manager for the Coffee Drinking Improvement Project.This 2-year project with a team of 4 increased client coffee drinking by 35%”

          I’m working on my resume right now and I’m doing something similar. My industry is a bit of a stickler for titles, so I don’t want to misrepresent anything, but I do often take on projects in my current role that are well above what my current title would indicate (hence the reason I’m updating my resume).

    5. Should I apply*

      Also sorry for the bad formatting. I was so excited to be the 1st poster I didn’t look over how post formatted.

    6. Tabby Baltimore*

      I have no advice, only to lament that we can’t put line graphs or charts in resumes, ’cause a picture’s worth a thousand words.

    7. Cedrus Libani*

      I have a relevant “extra stuff that’s not in my job title” on my resume, and I call it out as you do in the first example. It’s the first line, because it puts the other lines in context. “Hired as stable hand; three weeks later, was acting head of IT.”

      But in this case, you might not even need it. It’s not unusual for people to grow towards tech lead and/or project management without getting an official promotion, and you might have enough to just “show not tell” that you’ve reached that level.

      I would also not try to separate the “solution” and the “new method”, as if I understood correctly, those are talking about the same thing. It’s relevant that you identified and proposed this project, and also did the tech lead stuff on it, so I’d put them together in a way that makes it clear. E.g:

      Identified key coffee drinker needs that were not being met, and successfully pitched project to business leaders. Led the development of a [buzzword] coffee delivery system that increased sales by 100%.

      In general, I don’t think you have to go strictly by chronology or by importance. You’re telling a story. Assume limited attention span; put the good stuff up front. But don’t sacrifice context. If you need to mention A so that B makes sense, then A goes first, even if B is objectively more important.

  2. Alternatives to "hi guys"*

    I try to use gender-neutral language where possible but I’m really struggling to find a stand-in for the word “guys” for work emails. “Guys” is the perfect combination of casual&informal-but-not-overally-familiar. I can’t imagine writing “Hi folks” in an email. I stick with writing “Good morning/hi all/everyone” but that sounds weird to say out loud.

    Have you found any satisfying alternatives for “guys” at work?

      1. BubbleTea*

        I say folks, all, or everyone. I’m from the north of England – I know folks and all can sound different coming from different accents/backgrounds.

          1. KaciHall*

            Well, they do if you are from the South but living in Indy. Though I think that’s just because it takes twice as long to say it in a Southern accent.

            1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

              Well, I’m from Michigan, and nobody bats an eyelash when *I* say “y’all.” Though I have gotten a couple of side-eyes when it’s followed in short order by “aboat”.

              “What do y’all think aboat that meeting agenda, hey?”
              “… Where are you from again?”

            2. Anonymous is In the Northeast*

              I happily say y’all in my New York accent. If questioned, I say I’m on the phone with Kentucky a lot. And that it sounds much better than “youse guys.”

        2. Birdie*

          I live in the Midwest but grew up in the south. I tend to use, “Hi all” in email, but in person, it’s “y’all,” and the only people who comment on it are other ex-southerners who want to ask where I’m from.

          1. I'm just here for the cats.*

            I use hi all in emails too but I’m not from south. It stems from working at a company and our chat feature. If you wanted your chat to show to everyone you’d have to put @all. So @all there’s donuts in the break room.

    2. No Tribble At All*

      “Good morning everyone” / “hi everyone” isn’t as weird to say if you picture yourself speaking to a larger audience. If you were giving a speech, you’d start with some variant of “welcome, everyone”. I’ve said “hi all” in emails and out loud for a while.

    3. TheseOldWings*

      I’m not sure what the context is in sending emails, but we typically use “Team” when sending to a group of people at my company.

        1. IndustriousLabRat*

          Same- I personally use these three, and these three only.
          Good morning Team,…
          Hello All,…
          Hi Everyone,…
          A greeting for most every occasion!

      2. Cat on a Keyboard*

        Me too, I like that it sets a collaborative tone for the email contents, even if we’re not a defined “team” working together most of the time. Could be project team, department team, team of people trying to resolve this issue right now, etc. Even when it’s a little hokey it still works.

    4. Orange Crushed*

      I’ve received a few emails that were addressed with “Hi team”. (My colleagues think it’s cringeworthy, but I don’t mind.)

      1. TheseOldWings*

        I thought “team” was cringeworthy when I first started at my current company as well, but basically everyone uses it so it’s pretty normal now.

      2. KayDeeAye*

        I use “Hi, team” a lot. I quite like it.

        I have no problem with “guys” used in a gender-neutral way, and from the frequency with which it is used, I’d say it’s very, very common. But there are people who dislike it a lot, so while I do use it, I wouldn’t start an email that way.

        1. Bopper*

          Some thoughts on using “Guys” as a default term for a group of people:

          https://www.wiley.com/network/instructors-students/education-trends/im-not-your-guy-dude-why-language-really-does-matter

          https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2013/01/30/girls-ladies-folks-heres-a-visual-guide-to-what-you-should-call-that-group-of-individuals/?sh=3adf4d6a6619

          https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2018/08/guys-gender-neutral/568231/

          https://blog.npmjs.org/post/120475872425/this-is-npms-guys-jar-we-didnt-invent-the

          1. I want to be Amy Santiago too*

            That’s good information Bopper. I also really, really like guys, and also am trying to remove it from my language. It’s a work in progress.

    5. Kimmy Schmidt*

      What’s wrong with folks? I use that one and ‘friends’ sometimes.
      I’m in the south and lean heavily on y’all (such a good inclusive and easy word).

            1. Usagi*

              I believe BCE was referring not to “y’all” as in “you all” but “ya’ll” as in “ya/you llama(s)”

              … I’m kidding, of course, but I kind of want it to be a real thing.

      2. SnapCrackleStop*

        I write emails with “Hi, folks” all the time! Internal and customer-facing (though not formal emails.)

      3. Batgirl*

        I wish I could pull off y’all! Scouse accent, so I really can’t. We say “youse” regionally but it’s not seen as appropriate for work…

      4. MarfisaTheLibrarian*

        I’m born and bred in New York, and somehow I’ve ended up using “y’all” a lot at work. Sometimes it’s the best word.

    6. Neosmom*

      How about using “gals” instead of “guys” and see the reaction you get? I’m sure using gender neutral group terms will get more comfortable after that!

    8. londonedit*

      I don’t think there would be anything weird about saying ‘Hi everyone’ out loud. For something even less formal I’d go with ‘Morning all’, but that may be a British thing.

      1. Charlotte Lucas*

        Actually, I find “gals” pretty cringe-worthy, probably because it’s a dialect version of “girls,” which should not be applied to grown women at work.

        I like “everyone” or “all” better.

        2. Mademoiselle Sugar Lump*

          I think the point is that it’s a counterpoint to “guys” and points out that “guys” isn’t gender neutral.

          1. Seeking Second Childhood”*

            I have to remember that all the time. In my little spot on Long Island, guys was gender neutral. I could walk into a Girl Scout meeting and say hi guys and they would all say hello back. It doesn’t work so well now that I’m across time zones with lots of other people. My new neutral is “everyone“. (I do fall into saying y’all sometimes too, but then again I read a lot online so I’m also picking up Britishisms like “brilliant” for a clever AAM comment.)

    9. Midwestern Weegie*

      I have thoroughly embraced y’all, despite not being from a geographic area where it’s used (considering I grew up in the UK, it sounds absolutely absurd, which I think is why I enjoy it so much). It really is a perfect gender neutral collective term.

      1. JustaTech*

        Y’all fills a very specific gap in the English language: a separate and distinct pronoun for the second person plural. When I was learning Spanish in high school and we were having problems with when to use “tu/usted” versus “ustedes” my teacher finally said “ustedes is y’all!” “Ohhh” chorused the class. (Not that we were allowed to use y’all in class, because it isn’t proper English. Sigh.)

    10. miss chevious*

      With my internal team I say “hi peeps” because we are informal like that. (Ironically, my team is all women at the moment, so I have to fight the urge to say “hi ladies” because I don’t want to get into that habit and then have to change it when we get a male team member.) When something more formal is required, I use “all” or “team.”

      2. Fish Microwaver*

        I like “peeps” for a casual (within my team) spoken greeting too. For email I go with “everyone”.

    11. No Tribble At All*

      Worse options: gang, squad.
      So-bad-it’s-good option: starting every meeting with “Avengers Assemble!”

      1. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

        hah. I love the “avengers assemble”
        Similarly over the top silly depending on your audience: “My esteemed colleagues” “My most excellent associates” “My trusted accomplices” “My respected peers”

        2. Grace Poole*

          I love using terms like this, but only in an email to a smaller group of people whom I know would get the joke. It’s not something I’d add to an All Staff email.

        3. Alice Ulf*

          I once entered a room with “Greetings, programs!” but in all fairness it was our IT office. :D

          1. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

            For a non-IT audience you could replace “programs” with “Greetings Humans”

          2. Seven hobbits are highly effective, people*

            I constantly want to do this and do not (I do not work in IT).

    14. Chaordic One*

      Personally, I think “guys” is fine, but some women don’t consider themselves to be “guys” and find the term offensive and exclusionary. My default terms have become “People” and “Everyone”.

        1. Oatmeal*

          It’s only gender neutral because it conveys how men are the default. Ie you can say hi guys and mean everyone, but not hi ladies. That’s the kind of thing gender neutral phrasing combats (as well as just being more inclusive in general).

      2. MNLiz*

        Same – it’s very much a regional thing. Here in Minnesota “guys” is used in a gender neutral way and is basically an equivalent of how “y’all” is is used in the south.

    15. Erika22*

      I use “hi all” or “hi everyone” if it’s a bunch of people, or “hi both” or “hi X and Y” if it’s just to a couple people. I feel like using “hey” instead of “hi” sometimes help keep things casual. In real life I use y’all or just say hi/hello. I’ve thought about this a lot because I was intentionally trying to stop using guys too!

    16. Anon here again*

      I’ve used just a plain “Good morning” or “Good afternoon”, but it’s usually for addressing higher-ups or people that I normally don’t talk to. (I wouldn’t use it for my own team. It might be considered too formal or cold.) I was trying to be funny once and used, “My esteemed colleagues” in an email and that gave them a laugh. Otherwise it’s “Dear all” or “Hello all”.

    17. Jay*

      I say “folks” when speaking and use “people” or “team” in Email. Or nothing at all – “Hello!” “Good morning!” are just fine on their own.

      I use “y’all” in conversation. I’m not from the South but the equivalent term from my hometown is “youse” which just – ugh. I never write it.

    19. 404UsernameNotFound*

      I like “Hi all” in writing, and a very slurred “hey y’all” that comes out more as “heyall” in speech (south of UK).

    20. wordswords*

      I like folks personally, but I think that’s something that depends a lot on your region and style; if it doesn’t come naturally out of your mouth, it can feel really artificially, well, folksy, I gather.

      Seconding “hi all” or “hi everyone/everybody!” On a sufficiently informal team you can do “hi peeps” or “hey gang” too — I’ve gotten both from my team lead and not blinked, but there are definitely workplaces where that wouldn’t fly.

    21. Firecat*

      A lot of people, not everyone, consider guys and dudes gender neutral. So I would say it depends on your audience and what you are hoping to accomplish.

      1. Not playing your game anymore*

        I hate Dude. A dude is Jeff Spicoli, or some rube with a big cowboy hat and no idea how to ride a horse, and I just can’t. But it’s not a word used much around here. (South Dakota)

        I rarely start an email with a greeting. I just start. We used memos at work before email and work emails tend to still follow that style. So no greeting is expected. And that always just carried over to personal stuff for me. I might throw down a “Greeting!” “Hey cuz” or “Howdy stranger” but it’s not at all the norm.

        To: minion@address.edu
        Re: explosion and fire
        What the???

        This form also eliminates the need for Yours, Sincerely, or…

        I might add a closing like “Looking forward to seeing you when the lab decontamination is done” or “when things are sane again”

        but usually not. I blame it on too much time spent communicating with engineers.

    22. Asenath*

      Well, I rarely used a greeting at all. If I was emailing an individual I knew well, I might write “Hi”; to someone I had never met and to whom I was making a formal request (that is, I wasn’t merely adding them to my email lists for information a group might need or find interesting, like upcoming presentations), I’d start with Dear Dr./Ms./Mr. Lastname. Mostly, for anything I was sending to a regular group at work, I’d just dive right in with what I had to say. Sometimes I was emailing to two groups who were usually somewhat separate, and then, to ensure both groups knew I intended to email, I’d start off with “Finishing Team and Preparation Team: The new regulations listed below will affect work on both teams….”

    23. Just a PM*

      I’ll use “Hi everyone” for casual emails to my team. “Good morning/afternoon” or “All” for things that are more business-y or have senior leadership included.

      I do occasionally bust out a “Howdy folks” when I’m feeling particularly folksy but that’s rare.

    24. Anonymous Educator*

      I use folks all the time in emails. Everyone or team (if you’re on the same team) can also work.

    25. Mockingjay*

      Team or All.

      Hey team – for informal stuff
      All, please see attached for the approved document. – tend to use this one for higher-ups.

    27. Colleague’s Dog’s Viking Funeral*

      At my office, folks is the norm.
      I just don’t like that word.
      (and peers. “speak with your peers. meet with your peers. Awkward to me.)
      No reason other than personal preference.
      so I say, “hi all,” whether in email to a group.

    28. Maggie*

      I say everyone, I don’t think it sounds weird out loud or in writing. Or I write Hi Team, Hi All, Hi There. My office is very conscious of these things so I’d rather sound a little cheesy than offend a higher up

    30. RagingADHD*

      I always think “everybody” sounds a bit less formal than “everyone.”

      “Hey, everybody” sounds quite natural.

    31. Bagpuss*

      In email, I usually go for ‘Hi All’ or ‘Dear All’ depending on the e-mail. (I personally tend to use ‘Dear All’ when it is a more formal message, such as when I am circulating a new policy or giving instructions, and ‘Hi All’ ‘Hi’ or ‘Good Morning/Afternoon’

      In person, usually just “Hi” or “Good Morning” (or afternoon, as appropriate) , again, depending on how formal it might be.

      I personally don’t like ‘folks’ but that may just be me, or it may be me being British!

    32. Momma Bear*

      Or just “Good morning!” and then proceed into the email. Dep. on the company I have also seen ALCON (all concerned).

    33. Quinalla*

      Folks and y’all are my two go-to replacements for guys which I agree is a nice mix of casual but not too familiar. Other things I use at work are: Team, everyone, all. I much prefer any of these to folks who try to use “Guys and gals” or “Ladies and Gentlemen” because those leave out non-binary folks and there are weird connotations with pretty much every gendered-female term.

      1. Autumnheart*

        Heh. I’ve been in meetings where there were one or two men present among many more women, and the greeting was “Hi ladies!” If women can be “guys” then men can be “ladies”, right?

        Generally speaking, the team is consistent about using terms that acknowledge the mixed-gender group, it was just funny to see such a common trope gender-flipped for a change.

    34. Zephy*

      I sometimes start emails to my immediate team with “Hey kids,” but it’s a joke because I’m the youngest person in the office.

      “Hi folks,” “hey everybody,” or just “good morning/afternoon” are all perfectly fine.

    35. Sylvan*

      I received an email beginning with “Happy Friday, y’all!” as I read these comments. “Folks” and “y’all” work for me, but this place is both casual and actually in the Southern US. These words aren’t new additions to our vocabulary.

      You could use “team.” Your “everyone” and “all” examples sound fine to me. You could also just start with “hi.”

    36. HR Exec Popping In*

      I’m a fan of “hi folks” or “hi all” in casual communications. For a more professional email I go with “hi colleagues”.

    37. Mary*

      Wow, great ideas here to try out! Some of the ones I use in speech/informal chat that I don’t think have been mentioned yet: heyoo, hiyas, yas, youse.

    38. Choggy*

      I usually put Good morning/afternoon as the salutation, but don’t include anything else. I do use “All” or “Team” depending on the audience as well. I have used “Guys” too but that’s only because the rest of my team is all men.

    40. Scout Finch*

      I use “Colleagues”- some people may be above me in standing, but we are all there to support the same mission.

    41. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

      I have always hated “guys” in a professional (or semi-professional) context, gender issue aside. To me it’s incredibly overfamiliar and inarticulate. Maybe I’m just a stick in the mud but I’ve always preferred all, everyone, colleagues, members of [team], or specific names depending on the context.

    45. TC*

      As someone who’s spent a long time trying to omit “guys” from my vocab, I say “Hey there” a lot at the beginning of meetings. I find there’s really no need in my mind to distinguish saying it to one person or a group. People know it’s a group or not, I don’t need to define that in my greeting.

    47. Natalie*

      My team tends to start emails with, “Hey peeps,” which is short for people…but we’re also pretty informal in emails within the team, so that might not work for your situation.

    49. Generic Name*

      Sometimes I’ll say “peeps” if it’s coworkers I’m close with. You can also say “team”.

    51. Observer*

      Have you found any satisfying alternatives for “guys” at work?

      It depends on where you are. I use guys all the time – including for female only groups. In my neck of the world “guys” is not seen as gendered. On the other hand, if I ever tried to use “y’all” some people would be looking at me like I have two heads and others would be wondering if I’m trying to poke fun at other regions or groups.

      My point is not that you should continue to use guys, but to look around what is used in your circles. Take that as your starting point.

    52. PurplePartridge*

      I’ve used “friends” mostly when talking to other team members at the same level. “Team” is pretty common at my current org.

      Also, thank-you for trying to avoid “guys” in your language! I know plenty of people consider it gender neutral, but as the only woman on my current team, I really notice when I’m addressed with “guys”, “dude”, etc. I’m not annoyed enough to point it out, but it always irks me a little.

    53. Forensic13*

      Anyone else watch Tiger King and become really tempted to start using “Hey all you cool cats and kittens” as a gender-neutral greeting? (I’ve been taping a lot of screencasts for students lately and I’ve been so tempted to start saying that. Because I am basically without the capacity for embarrassment.)

    54. Toothless*

      It’s become somewhat of an inside joke with my work crew of 5 people that our PM uses “ding-dongs” instead of “guys”, usually in the form of “you guys… woops, sorry, I mean you ding-dongs”. The generally accepted substitute in the Seattle area where I live tends to be “folks” though.

    55. Mr. Shark*

      In an e-mail, I would go with Hi Team or Hi All, or Good afternoon/good morning, or specifically to the persons addressed in the e-mail.
      I don’t have a problem eliminating it from my formal speech, but from a normal conversation, guys seems to work a lot better than any of the alternatives, or if I’m referring to a smaller group of people, say, three or four, that do not make up a team.
      “What do you guys think about painting the teapot white?” versus “What do you all…” or anything like that. None of the other options sounds normal/casual enough. And I think using it in this context is gender-nuetral.

  3. Work laptop*

    Which websites are okay to use on your work laptop? Are any of the below?

    Google Calendar – I use it extensively to plan work project stages and relevant dates, but also use it for personally-relevant dates.
    Google Drive
    Advice blogs like AAM, Captain Awkward.
    LinkedIn
    News sites (WaPo, NYT, Slate, local news, etc)
    Forum sites like MetaFilter
    Amazon & other shopping sites

    1. ThatGirl*

      Personally, I think most if not all of those are fine, but I’d read over your company policies to make sure there’s no specific language about any of it.

      Most companies I’ve worked at have basically said “limited personal use” is fine — and most people I know at a minimum do things like check their personal email and visit news sites on work time on occasion. IMHO it’s more about how much time those activities are taking up than where specifically you’re visiting (obviously as long as it’s not, like, adult content or that sort of thing). Plus, I work in marketing — I have legitimate reasons to visit Amazon, Wayfair, YouTube, etc during the workday.

    2. kittymommy*

      Truthfully, depends on where I’m at. Currently I’m at worked and my laptop is plugged into the server but I would still go to all those sites except for the forum site. At home when I’m wireless they’re all fine. Even though I’m in government our IT department is fine with stuff like this as long as where not downloading a bunch of stuff (and we can’t load software or anything ourselves). I currently have the following sites open: FedEx tracking, AAM, NPR live stream, Facebook, and a couple of government sites.

    3. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      I use most of those on my work computer (not sure about Metafilter, but I use safe-for-work reddits and similar things which I guess is comparable).

      Depending on what you do and information security restrictions around it, using Google Calendar and Drive for work stuff are the two that would bother me most although they are innocuous in themselves, due to the possibility of company documents/information leaving the company servers and going up in to ‘the cloud’ somewhere with who knows what security settings. (I do work in fields where info sec is paramount but this could also apply to things like “meeting with John Smith to review financial position” depending on what you do.)

      1. Security for real*

        This. No problem using Google services for personal things but company data stays on company cloud so unless your employer uses Google Suite that would be a big no-no. Same for any apps or services that are not company provided (so no Trello or whatever for company tasks unless its company provided account etc).

    4. Ashley*

      Those sites are generally fine I think, but most of this goes to company cultural and the time you are on them. Being on Amazon during lunch in most places isn’t a big deal, but if you are there constantly I think that could be the issue.
      In some ways it is helpful to know how your company tracks you and if you aren’t sure I tend to default I am being tracked so I will save work passwords on my computer but nothing that would let them into my calendar that could also have personal information on it.

      1. TechWorker*

        +1 – for me, using google calendar for personal events would be totally fine and using it for work ones totally not.

    5. Stuckinacrazyjob*

      I mostly look at work related stuff on my work laptop and use my phone to look at unrelated stuff

    6. Anonymous Educator*

      All of those are fine on my work laptop. The real question is—are they fine on yours? Company policies vary from company to company. They may even vary within a company for different departments.

    7. Might Be Spam*

      I don’t use any websites that need any of my personal information on a work computer or network even if it allowed. The computer system where my daughter works got hacked and many of her coworkers suffered identity theft issues as a result. The company’s IT insurance didn’t cover any of the employee’s losses. Fortunately she used her phone for her personal internet use and didn’t have any trouble.

    8. voyager1*

      Honestly those are all probably fine, it is just going to come down to how often you are frequenting them.

      Personally this is what I do:
      I do AAM on my phone.

      Any news sites on my phone. Anything that can get me tagged for my beliefs I do on my phone.

      I can’t read Capt Awkward.

      I don’t really frequent forums.

      I shop from home, be it Amazon or somewhere else.

      I have the LinkedIn app on my phone.

      I don’t use Google drive or calendar.

    9. Annie Moose*

      I don’t think this is something people on the internet are going to really be able to answer for you! It’s all dependent on the way your company handles laptops and internet usage.

      At my current company, work laptops are basically treated like personal laptops–by which I mean literally no one cares if you use your laptop for personal things off the clock, and we have no internet filtering, logging, or restrictions installed on our laptops. I still wouldn’t do anything questionable like watching porn or pirating movies on it, but otherwise I treat it very similarly to if it were a personal laptop.

      However, there’s other companies that have very strict rules about only using laptops for work-related activities. If I worked in a very strict place like that, I likely would try to avoid doing personal things at all… except maybe stuff like emails that are pretty minor.

      Of course, most companies are going to fall somewhere in the middle, but at the end of the day, you’re the only one who knows where on the spectrum your company is! If you’re unsure, ask a coworker who’s been there longer to get their take.

    10. Quinalla*

      Most companies those would be fine. I tend to keep more personal things on my phone (or right now on my home computer and only do work stuff on my work computer that I remote into), but I don’t worry about it too much as limited personal things is fine on our work computers per company policy. But yeah, I have always been ok with some work/personal overlap – for me that is the best way to manage my work/life to do some personal stuff at work and do some work stuff at home – some really like to keep it separate. But yeah, make sure to check with company policies and/or your manager on anything you aren’t sure about because there are some jobs where only work-related web browsing is allowed and they don’t want you linking anything personal. I have my personal onenote logged in at work because I keep one big “to do” list (GTD style) in my onenote which includes personal and work and I’m not putting that on a work account just in case I leave in the future to go elsewhere. I did verify that was ok with our IT prior to doing it as they are pretty reasonable, but it was one I wasn’t sure about.

    11. Parenthesis Dude*

      I wouldn’t use Google Calendar, Drive or LinkedIn on my work computer. The problem is less that my work would have an issue, and more that anything I do on my work computer gets tracked, and that means they’re tracking my personal e-mail. Not good.

    12. Stephanie*

      Google Drive is blocked on my laptop if I’m on VPN, but all the others are fine. We’re told limited personal use is fine. IT will block some websites as suspicious when they’re not (probably due to some security issue I don’t understand). But with full time WFH…I can just go to an iPad or my personal computer for a lot of that stuff now.

    13. allathian*

      All Google sites are currently blocked on my work computer for information security reasons. They don’t want company data in the Google cloud. Google drive is definitely verboten. Advice blogs are fine, as long as I get my work done nobody cares.

      News sites are fine, although they do frown on excessive video use, so text is preferred.

      Job-related social media sites like LinkedIn would be fine. We have corporate Twitter and IG accounts. We used to have FB as well, but I’m not sure if that’s the case any longer.

      Limited use of shopping sites would be fine, although unless I need to buy something with the company card, I really don’t see any reason to do shopping during working hours. The only time I’ve shopped for something that was’t directly work related was when my favorite band was coming to town and I wanted to book decent seats.

      I use my Outlook calendar for personal (can be flagged personal and private so my coworkers and boss only know that I’m unavailable at that time) and job-related appointments during working hours and my own phone’s Google calendar for personal appointments at the weekend or in the evening. Currently those aren’t really an issue.

  4. WWYD?*

    Colleague “Allen”, while running a Skype meeting, shared his screen and showed a Skype conversation between himself and “Rob”. (Rob was not a part of the meeting.) In the conversation, Rob was talking about looking for another job. That Skype window was up for about 20 seconds, plenty of time to see the entire thing, before Allen clicked away to the meeting agenda.

    At the end of the day this happened, Allen (conveniently) left for a month of field service work on a job site. Now an entire team of people might know that Rob is job searching, including a VP and director, while Allen is out of pocket.

    I have no way of knowing if this was accidental or intentional on Allen’s part. Rob and Allen are fairly equal in rank, but part of different divisions. It’s feasible that they might be competing for some type of promotion, but it seems unlikely given their current jobs, which are specialized and somewhat dead-end positions.

    Rob is stiffly formal and terse when we’ve interacted, but warm towards others during the same conversations. I get the impression from his manner, and from a few comments he’s made, that he feels my department is superficial and less important than his (I’m in marketing, he’s in STEM). This obviously makes me dislike him, which is making it difficult to see the situation impartially.

    Would you approach Rob and tell him what happened, or mind your business and say nothing?

    1. RabbitRabbit*

      I’d MYOB. But I’m petty. If he was terse and cold towards me, he might assume that I had told others as well.

    3. Sherm*

      I would assume that exposing the job search was an accident, especially if Allen seems like a good guy. Besides, you don’t know if Rob is actually go through with a job search, much less get another job. If this or something similar happens again, it’s Allen I would talk to: “Hey Allen, you need to be more careful when you share your screen. There was some information about Rob that I don’t think he would want to disclose.”

    4. Octopus*

      MYOB. The situation doesn’t impact you directly, and it’s not your news to bring to Rob, especially since you don’t have a relationship with him that would warrant it. If you were close friends outside of work, you could give him a head’s up not to discuss job searching on workplatforms. But bringing it up (what might have been purely accidental, or not have been seen by those if they weren’t fully engaged at the time (as is common during the beginnings of meetings, imo)), would just stir up drama. There’s nothing either party (Allen or Rob) can do about it now.

      1. Emilia Bedelia*

        Agreed. What is he going to do about it, anyway? I would only tell someone about an event like that if there was a clear action that they should take, or if there was a foreseeable consequence that they should be aware of (eg, if someone had seen it and commented “We better talk to Rob about this”)

      2. Annie Moose*

        Yeah. It almost certainly was an accident–it’d be quite an elaborate scheme if Allen did this on purpose! And even if Allen did do it on purpose, there’s nothing you can reasonably do about it. You’re not responsible for Rob’s chances at a promotion (which, if he’s job searching, he might not even care about…), and it sounds like you don’t even know him or Allen very well. Stick to your own team and your own job, in my opinion.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      You’re in the clear here. I recommend just staying in the clear and let everyone else sort themselves out.

      The take away here is keep an eye on Allen to see if anything else is going on that DOES impact you. Allen might be a good egg over all and this was a genuine mistake.

    7. Colleague’s Dog’s Viking Funeral*

      My first thought would be to tell Allen that he was not as quick as he thought he was.
      Why tell Rob at all?
      “Hey, Rob, Allen accidently shared your job search conversation during a Zoom meeting.”
      If this needs damage control (and that’s a big if) it is on Allen.

    8. RagingADHD*

      I’d say MYOB.

      I’d also say you’ll have a more pleasant and satisfying work life overall if you stop making up imaginary dramas (like Rob and Allen’s fictional rivalry, and what you think Rob thinks about your department).

      None of that has anything to do with you or your work, and saying something to Rob would just make you a shit-stirrer.

      1. WWYD?*

        The parts you call “making up imaginary dramas” are the parts that this community nitpicks if left out (possible motivations and interpersonal issues). They were included to stave off questions.

        People really can’t win here.

        1. RagingADHD*

          Relevant facts (not speculation) about interpersonal dynamics can be helpful in complicated situations.

          This is not a complicated situation. It’s just none of your business.

          Yeah, there are a lot of people who write fanfiction about the situations in questions, because most readers are just here for their own entertainment.

          I’m just saying don’t write fanfiction on your own life. It’s not good for you.

          1. Cassidy*

            “…most readers are just here for their own entertainment.”

            We are? Speaking for myself, that’s news to me.

    9. Distractinator*

      yeah, say nothing. If you assume it was accidental and everybody in the meeting saw it, make a mental list of who Rob is most likely to hear it from. You’re probably in the lower half of that list. It’s not your problem. It’s probably not even a problem at all (yes, people look for jobs all the time, and it might not even be a secret) and if you are the 4th person to come to Rob with this scandalous gossip about him, he’s going to be really fed up. If it wasn’t accidental it is absolutely drama you’d want to stay out of. Say nothing.

    10. BuildMeUp*

      Oh gosh, I think I disagree the other responses here. I understand the impulse not to get involved, and I definitely understand that Rob’s treatment of you makes it hard to want to be nice to him. But if I were Rob, I would absolutely want to know, whether or not the reveal was intentional on Allen’s part. The kind thing to do, imo, would be to give him a heads up.

      1. Observer*

        Why? What would Rob do about it? Why is this useful for Rob to know? And why should the OP take the effort, which could easily look like they are just trying to make themselves look important or are being a pot stirrer?

        1. BuildMeUp*

          Rob can’t build a time machine and prevent the info from getting out, but he can prepare for the possibility that a manager or coworker might find out and bring it up to him, for example. I would want to know and not be blindsided if my boss decided to bring up the job search I thought was confidential.

          As I said in my comment, I think telling Rob would be the kind thing to do.

            1. BuildMeUp*

              Sorry, I think you must have meant to reply to another comment? I didn’t say anything about OP having a responsibility to alert Rob.

    11. Quinalla*

      Is Allen unreachable or just less available? If just the latter, I’d let him know that he had that up for a while and others may have noticed besides you. Let him handle it with Rob how he wants. If you were close to Rob, I’d say just let him know if Allen is completely unreachable right now, but since you aren’t close, I don’t think you have to feel obligated. I would just because that is how I operate, but not everyone would and I think that is a valid choice.

    12. PollyQ*

      Given that plenty of other people could (and probably will) clue Rob in, I don’t see any necessity for you to be the one to tell him. And -1 for Rob for interacting so differently with colleagues. That’s just rude & unprofessional.

    13. Observer*

      What are you trying / expecting to accomplish? I don’t see anything actionable here and there are just too many unknowns to say that this is genuinely information the Rob needs to have, even if it’s not immediately actionable. And, given what you’ve described, it’s too easy for this to wind up looking like useless pot stirring / trying to make yourself look important.

    14. allathian*

      I would definitely stay out of it, it’s not your responsibility. You don’t owe Rob anything beyond coolly professional treatment, given how unfriendly he is and how dismissive he is of your own work and department. You definitely don’t owe him the sort of heads-up that you might give a coworker you’re friendly with about maybe not talking about job searches in private convos that can be shown by accident (or on purpose) to others.

      What’s your relationship with Allen? It’s a bit unfortunate that he’s at another site for so long. If he had been at your own site you probably could have asked what was up, if you have a good relationship with him. I’m prone to giving people the benefit of the doubt and assume that Allen showed the private convo by accident.

  5. Spillz*

    Would love advice from people who have made a switch from a salaried job to a base + commission role! I currently have an offer on the table, but am not sure if I am crazy for considering it. 

    Here’s my situation: I currently work in a corporate setting, and what I came on do to (events) is almost non-existent with the pandemic, so I have been filling my time other ways, and am truly grateful that I’ve been kept on during this time. However, the organization is to put it nicely, a mess, and even though I haven’t been doing what i”ve been hired to do, I’m not sure I want to stick it out here long term. 

    Enter: the new role. Over the summer, my job cut my pay, so I ended up picking up a PT job working customer service for a startup in the health/fitness space, and it’s been great. I was a customer of the company for about 5 years before I started working here, and I truly have a passion for it. When a full time role came up recently, I tossed my hat in the ring, and ended up getting an offer for the job!! 

    Here’s the problem: I currently make around $85k PLUS the additional side income from my PT role. The new job is offering a $50k base + commission ($80K OTE), so it would be a SIGNIFICANT reduction in base pay, but if I actually hit the OTE would get me close enough that I would be comfortable taking a small cut to work for a company that I truly enjoy/have a passion for.

    Is this a huge mistake? Would love thoughts from anyone who has gone through this previously – good or bad!! 

    1. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I just did this, but I got an increase in base pay. I’ve never been in a sales role before, so it’s important to me to have a “back up” if I don’t make my goals. I’m also selling things that people in my industry need in order to make money, so there’s that.

      I completely get your hesitation, but I will say that unless you’ve done this kind of work before… I would be super hesitant.

    2. T. Boone Pickens*

      I’d be asking a ton of questions when it comes to the variable compensation piece. Just some that pop into my head:

      -What did the top performer on the team earn in terms of variable comp as it pertains to goal? If the top performer isn’t hitting 100% of goal, I think that would be a gigantic red flag.

      -How realistic is their OTE target? What does the average sale do in terms of your revenue goal towards OTE?

      -Are you inheriting any accounts? If so, does those count towards your OTE? I’ve seen some comp plans where inherited accounts fall into a ‘house account’ bucket where you’ll get paid a small amount to manage but they don’t count towards your overall revenue goal.

      1. lapgiraffe*

        Similarly as what the average person hits in terms of goals and OTE, knowing both top performer v regular person can give a better overall outlook.

        I’d be curious how the last year has been and what their continued covid outlook is. Perhaps in normal times this would be a slam dunk of a role but recently has become an impossible task. Or maybe their business is booming, who knows! But you gotta ask.

        Ask about how often they pay out commission, when you could expect to see your first commission, and also ask beyond expanding your own sales what kinds of raise opportunities exist. For instance, last company I worked at didn’t pay commission til they got paid, which was awful. Terms (set by state, controlled substance) were 60 days so you went two months before your first commission check, and planning your life was very tricky because your earnings reflect work from two months ago (fwiw, this is not industry standard, so in my other roles we all got paid our commissions weekly or monthly and there was much less of a struggle in planning that way).

        Know that large commission drops will be taxed more heavily up front. It “works out in the end” but it feels rather painful when you’re expecting a big chunk of money and it taxes you as if you’re making much more money than you are. (If anyone knows how to avoid this please please I’d love to know)

        Unclear from the job but I’m curious if this is a role that will require you to be on call/available outside of traditional hours. What makes it tough in my world is that there’s no standard hours, and so if you’d like to pick up a side gig it makes it that much harder to do so.

        I don’t know – I’ve worked 100% commission and I’ve worked a structure like the one you describe, I’m not totally against it and I liked things about it. But I know right now I’m looking for salary because variable pay during a pandemic is rather volatile and that stress literally will wake me up in the middle of the night.

        1. Atlantian*

          For your taxes question, if your HR/payroll allows it you can adjust your withholdings on your W-4. I would ONLY recommend this if you have the knowledge of exactly when that check will drop, use the IRS calculator to see how it will affect your overall yearly withholdings and ensure that you will not be under-withheld at the end of the year and be penalized for it. Also make sure your HR will let you make the necessary number of changes in such a short time period. Basically, be very cautious, but it can be done to at least get more of your bonus/commission than you would have otherwise and not have to wait for the remainder at the end of the year. People here do it for their bonus every year, but that is the last check of the year, so it’s not so bad if it carries over to the first couple of checks of the new year, since it’s only once a year.

    3. cosmicgorilla*

      How likely are you to ht the OTE? Are there others currently in the role that you can ask about their experiences?
      How much effort would you have to put in to hit the OTE? If you hit the OTE, would they up your quota the next year (making it harder for you to hit)?

      If you don’t hit the OTE, can you manage your expenses? Do you have a cushion if you have some low-commission months?

      Personally, and this is coming from someone with no sales or commission experience, hedging your bets on the perfect future scenario is risky. This feels to me a bit like the folks who got mortgages based on expecting their future salaries to increase, and they were badly bitten in the ass.

      On the other hand, if you think you have a future in this industry, and you wanted to get out of the other one, you might be more accepting of the risk than I would be.

      Other question – if you stayed in your current industry but at a different company, do you think you’d command the same salary?

    4. Weekend Please*

      I would keep looking. Even the best case scenario here involves a salary cut and the minimum take home pay sounds unacceptable to you. If you need to hit the maximum possible commission every month, it really isn’t a good fit.

    5. T. Boone Pickens*

      I’d also want to know how often commissions are paid? If they pay on a quarterly basis (not unheard of) that may screw up your budget.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      Make sure you understand how the commission is structured and just how often that structure changes.

      1. Colleague’s Dog’s Viking Funeral*

        how often that structure changes.
        THIS!
        They can switch from individual, to group commission.
        They can restructure territory (to bring a new person in at a lower base but with a head start in clients.)
        They can decrease the percentages.
        Right now they are selling you POSSIBLE income, not actual income.
        Not to mention, how much of the job is selling and how much of your after hours/weekends will be administrative work to catch up the week?
        Are you ready This is an awesome opportunity for someone starting a sales career, whether a first career or second.
        If you look at this like, “my current field is insecure, and I should start looking at different career paths,” then still do your due diligence, but also think of it as a starting position.

        1. Spillz*

          Thanks! This is somewhat of a pivot for me, and I am trying to frame the question in my mind of am I willing to take this risk in leaving a stable job in order to get a foot in the door/start a sales career, so trying to determine whether it is the right opportunity for me.

          My current field of events IS somewhat insecure at the moment, and I have also been considering for a while a change to something more like this as I think there is more long-term growth in this career path vs events, but just trying to determine how much risk I am willing to take. The one big positive for me is that I have already been working at this company for ~6 months and feel that I have a good grasp of the company culture, and also of the potential for growth.

    7. RC Rascal*

      Experiences sales professional here.

      There are a lot of games companies play with variable sales compensation. The biggest game is to set goals and compensation that isn’t actually attainable. Some companies also have a philosophy that the sales person should never achieve 100% of bonus and deliberately manage the organization do you can only achieve a portion of it. And if you do achieve all of it heaven help you the next year because you are expected to top it.

      Also — be aware annual bonuses are taxed at the top tax bracket. Commission is taxed at income.

      1. Natalie*

        Bonuses and commissions are taxed exactly the same, as earned income. The *withholding* may be higher, depending on how they are actually paid out – supplemental payment or added to your regular paycheck – and if the latter, how large the face value of the check is. But that is a somewhat arcane feature of how withholdings are calculated, it has no impact on your actual tax rate.

        1. RC Rascal*

          I have been receiving supplemental bonuses for close to 20 years. While I’m not an accountant I can tell you the tax rate has always been much higher than my regular paychecks. After health care, 401k, plus the additional tax burden I see slightly over 50% of my bonus. This is not the case with regular paychecks.

          1. anon2*

            You’re talking about withholding on that particular check. Your overall tax rate for the year is not higher for the portion of your income that was a bonus. If your income puts you in, say, the 23% tax bracket, you will pay 23% of your income for the year in taxes, period, no matter how much of that was bonuses.

          2. Karina Lutze*

            Yes, as Natalie said, your withholdings may be higher. But your actual all in tax rate depends on your total income and not whether it was base pay or bonus. When you do your taxes each year you will receive the extra withholdings back as a refund if you paid in too much based on your total annual income.

    8. jph in the heartland*

      I may be reading this wrong, but is this sales position in the health/fitness space selling memberships to a gym? If that is the case, I would NOT do this! I have seen how this works in our local gyms, through both my trainer and my son-in-law, and it is set up so that the corporation makes money and the salespeople don’t.

      1. Partly Cloudy*

        Also, COVID. I’ve hesitated to JOIN a gym in my new-ish town because they’re not open at full capacity and the limit on the limited capacity keeps changing. I want the dust to settle before committing, so I’d definitely feel that way if it was going to be my income.

      2. Spillz*

        It is not! Sorry, busy day but popping on to provide more information. It is completely virtual, not in a gym – without giving too much away, players put down a bet that they will accomplish a certain goal, such as losing x amount of money in a period of time, and whoever meets the goal splits the pot, with the company taking a cut. There has definitely been a spike in users recently with people being home more, but I feel confident that it will continue on after the panemic, as I was a user for ~5 years beforehand – and people always need motivation to lose weight or work out! :)

  6. Flaxseed*

    I work in the administrative part in education. I work with part-time employees from other schools. (They have a different boss than me.) Some of them applied for my position. One part-time woman, “Rose”, will make comments to me when she calls. One time she said, “Oh, you’ve made it 6 months in the position.” The last time our phones were down and Rose tried to call. When they were back up, she said “I thought that you had left because you found a really cool job somewhere else.” (No, Rose, still here.)

    Rose is a good worker and knows her stuff, but has trouble with organization and following a process to and from completion. My boss knows this and has admitted this to me (in private.)

    I ignore Rose’s comments, but it’s grating because I’ve worked with people like her before and maybe I’m naive, but I would never talk to someone or say anything like what she says to me. That and she lacks the skills, yet thinks that she’s entitled to the position because she’s been working in her position for years or thinks that she can do the job/do it better.

    Is there any way to deal with people like this? Is ignoring them the best option, or should one say something? (And what do you say?)

    2. Satisfactory Worker*

      I think being blunt but not nasty is the best thing.

      Rose: “Oh they’re still keeping you around?”
      You: “What an awful comment. Why would you say that?”

      1. Joan Rivers*

        I like THIS — we’re often too reluctant to be candid about what someone says to us. When they go over the line, ask them WHY?
        When someone asks you ANY personal question you can say, “Why do you ask?”

        It changes the direction of the conversation and puts them on the spot. They may be too dense to realize and just answer you that they “want to know” — you don’t owe them a big explanation.
        Just letting them sit there after they whine that they want to know can make the point.
        They’ll either talk more and maybe revealingly, or get worked up, or figure it out.

        1. Vermont Green*

          When you use the “Why Do You Ask?” strategy, you can embarrass and hurt the person to whom you are addressing it. It can be useful with family or friends sometimes, but at work, the idea is not only to maintain your boundaries, but also to keep relationships cordial and productive. If you make a colleague feel bad, there can be repercussions throughout the rest of your working life. The solutions involving cheerful deflecting and changing the subject are the ones that will keep things rolling along smoothly.

          1. WellRed*

            How does asking someone “why do you ask” hurtful or embarrassing? I would also say, even if it is (disagree) someone who asks a question they shouldn’t gets the response they get.

          2. Pop*

            Yes, I think that is partially the point. “Why do you ask?” is useful for questions that are not appropriate for work or uncomfortable for you. It just returns the awkwardness of the situation to sender.

          3. allathian*

            Normally, yes. But if the other person is making you feel uncomfortable and awkward nearly every time they open their mouth, you’re entitled to return the awkward to them. The goal is to stop them asking the sort of questions that make you uncomfortable. If they’re a peer, it’s unlikely they’ll have the ability to damage your career in any way. People like this are also likely to do the same thing to others, and are unlikely to be promoted above you. Of course, if such a person happens to be your boss, it’s a tougher line to draw.

            Aggressive cheerfulness is likely to work better with some people who are trying to make you feel uncomfortable on purpose. If it’s just the sort of verbal klutz who only opens their mouth to change feet, this will go right over their head and they won’t understand that what they’re saying is inappropriate and hurtful unless it’s spelled out very clearly.

    3. No Longer Gig-less Data Analyst*

      Personally, I have always responded with aggressive cheerfulness, because it tends to drive these people nuts when their dig goes completely unacknowledged. They are looking for a reaction that indicates they’ve hurt or wounded you, which I joyfully refuse to give them.

      “Oh, you’ve made it 6 months in the position.”
      “Sure have! I’ve learned so much in such a short time, and have gotten wonderful feedback so far from [boss]. It’s a great feeling to know I’m doing so well this early on.”

      “I thought that you had left because you found a really cool job somewhere else.”
      “What could be cooler than this? I’m so happy in this position and glad that [boss] agrees it was a great fit!”

      I have successfully driven some Negative Nancys absolutely bonkers with this approach.

        2. AGD*

          Seconded. The instigator has to be much more overt this way if it’s meant to be the workplace equivalent of negging. Either they push it out into the open (in which case they are obviously the jerk), or they knock it off (in which case, awesome). One of my colleagues did the former to me last year and soon got hauled into the office of the higher-ups.

        3. Elenia*

          So I always joke about this. I am aggressively cheerful about everything, I joke that I can’t help it because my blood type is literally B+, i.e., Be positive. But half the time I don’t even notice when people are trying to sting.

          2. Engineer Mom*

            That’s great. I’m B+ too and when I did the Gallup strength finder a few years ago Positivity was in my top 5 strengths. The flip side of positivity though is while you excel at looking for the bright side, once you are pushed over the limit it’s like you totally shatter. Which is where I’m at with my current job. :(

        5. Aziraphale*

          Definitely! I’m tempted to put this on a small post-it on my desk as a reminder. It works with colleagues and it works with others (I work with the public). And it can turn things around in a conversation when a person who is expecting a negative response encounters relentless cheerfulness and a happy attitude.

      2. NeonFireworks*

        I do this too. Aggressive cheerfulness, and repetitious aggressive cheerfulness. I have a moody coworker who is now ignoring me rather than trying to take passive-aggressive swipes at me. Much better.

        1. Might Be Spam*

          This works for over-competitive people, too. I didn’t even know until someone else told me, that I really frustrated a competitive coworker because I never even noticed her competitiveness and was cheerfully congratulating her on everything. Apparently she was trying to make me feel bad and I didn’t notice.

          2. The New Wanderer*

            I had someone do this to me in a personal context. She had to *tell* me she was trying to make me feel bad about something, while the entire time I was just mildly surprised that she had been telling me X, Y, Z personal things about her which I would have thought weren’t really my business.

      3. Colleague’s Dog’s Viking Funeral*

        I’m with this.
        True story:
        “Wow, you still working on that project? I thought you’d have given up by now!”
        “hey, thanks for asking. I had some bumps, but I am really loving it. I have some cool ideas for the X part.”
        “Oh, well, yeah, I meant, like it’s hard, I know you can do it. I was just saying, like it’s a tough project.”
        “that’s why I took it!”
        Because of course she meant it in the most positive way.

      4. Batgirl*

        I always find it easy to be cheerful with a Rose because they’re so amusing. If there’s anything funnier than someone who’s wounded by their own ineptitude, I don’t know what it is. I go with something that implies we are clearly talking crazy here: “No Rose, if I was going to run away to a life of leisure, you’d be the first to know!” Just turns the whole thing into a farce and Rose has to either smile at the joke or scatter back to her dark corner.

      5. Free Meerkats*

        Yeah, there are only two effective ways to fight this type of person; aggressive cheerfulness or gray rock. And AC is much more enjoyable.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      hmm. I have said, “You made it 6 months!” but there was surrounding context such as, “The first six months is the hardest, and you made it six months! It’s going to start to get easier now.

      I am going to assume there was no surrounding context.

      I think it is helpful to realize that just as someone may sound odd to me, I also may sound odd to them. And this happens often.

      But hold it in the best possible light:
      “Oh you made it six months.”
      “Thanks for recognizing my 6 month anniversary. I am happy about that.”

      “I thought that you had left because you found a really cool job somewhere else.”
      “Aw, Rose, nope I like it here so far. But thanks for wishing me an even cooler job!”

      I am not sure why this is grating on you. Do you like the job? Do you think the boss is satisfied with your work so far?

      The times I have heard people talk like this is because they themselves are unhappy in the job. I think here we see enough to kind of understand that Rose is not happy. To me it sounds like she likes you and wonders why you are in this awful place.
      Uh, heads up, sometimes the Roses of the World are actually correct. Yeah, I have a story of a woman who eventually told me to get out of the place while I was still young enough to find other opportunities and she was right TIMES TEN. It was the worst job- I cried all the way to work and all the way home.

      So I would continue reacting flatly the way you have been. Or if you like your job it’s okay to say that too.

      My thoughts here would change if there were other things to consider in her conversations with you. I am just saying this on what you have here.

      1. Flaxseed*

        “I am not sure why this is grating on you.”

        I was trying to figure this out as well. I’ve dealt with comments from others in this position and previous positions. Plus, she acts like a know it all and while she is smart and knows some info, she has trouble with basic tasks. (I worked with a woman like her in my last job who was like this, so maybe it’s triggering those memories?)

      2. Momma Bear*

        I’d do this and then quickly switch to whatever she’s calling about. “Yup, sure am! So what was it you were calling about?” While it’s annoying, I think the best “revenge” is to keep doing a good job.

    5. Colleague’s Dog’s Viking Funeral*

      “No. I accepted the full time position and plan to stay. Did you think something else?”
      and let her stutter about the job and whatever other crap she wants to say.
      Then ask why she called.
      And when she brings it up again, remind her you’ve explained and you’re done.

  7. Agnes*

    So my problem is I suck at my job.

    I’m a professor and primarily do research, represented in my field by grants, and some teaching. I’m up to 20 unfunded grants in a row; at this point I am mainly writing them because it’s expected of me and when I get to 56 unfunded I can say my chances are statistically equivalent to 0. My teaching evaluations are also unbelievably bad. My attempts to move to administration have been, understandably, met with the reaction that those jobs are for people who have research and teaching skills.

    I’m not likely to lose my job in the short run, but I won’t be able to keep this up forever. Theoretically consulting is a possibility in my field, but my attempts have found only small potatoes. There are no structural barriers keeping me back and I’ve been encouraged and supported since my birth. I got my job on my advisor’s and my grad school’s reputation, and I suppose this is the chickens coming home to roost (I am also massively overpaid.)

    How can I turn this around? I swear I do try – I seek and incorporate feedback early and often; I’ve been to tons of workshops on both grant-writing and teaching; I revise after every grant and every semester; I do midterm and final evaluations with my students and peer observers. My time management is almost aggressively aligned with my priorities. But none of it seems to help. I work about 40 hrs a week, so not a huge amount, but I’m already putting some time in on the weekends and I think I would struggle to do more – maybe that is the issue?

    This all predates the pandemic and my field is one that is helped by it, anyway. I just hate sucking at the stuff I do all day, every day, even though I don’t mind and even enjoy the individual tasks.

    1. Not Your Average Jo(lene)*

      Just a question for you… how do you engage with the students? Do you actively engage and have good rapport? Some of my favorite professors who made a difference in my career were not the smartest and didn’t go to the best schools. One didn’t even finish his PhD bc of cancer. He was ABD. I can still call on them if needed. I know that admin looks at research and teaching, but there is more to education than that. Connecting, empathy, caring, etc are all important to students. (Obviously, this post comes off as the “fluffy” stuff bc I have a background in counseling, but the fluffy is what helps people stay in jobs and stay in school! Just a couple of my thoughts. Also, keep your head up. I am glad you care. If you are putting in extra work, that is a good sign. I hope it all works out for you!

    2. Forensic13*

      I teach college students, but only as an adjunct, so I can’t speak to the research part. But for the rest: what do you /like/ about your job? Do you enjoy research? Writing in general? Do you like anything about the teaching aspect?
      I won’t add specific teaching feedback because you haven’t given details, but I’d say that’s the first thing to think about. If you pay attention to what aspects you do enjoy and what skills you do have, that gives you something off of which to build.

      1. Forensic13*

        Oh, also, you mention that you incorporate feedback early and often—do you feel that you might be trying to please too many students/types of students and are becoming too “bland” that way? I am a WEIRD, slightly obnoxious teacher, because that’s my thing and I lean into it. (I show it off early so students can bail if they hate it.). It works because I work on making my style, topics, and ideas interesting so that they’re appealing on their own merits, bringing the students to me. I know some teachers who go the opposite direction and try to change their topics to please every student, and from what I’ve heard, it tends to get rather mealy-mouthed. (And then I do still give them lots of flexibility for their own projects.).

    3. Butch in the Office*

      What do the evaluations say? It’s hard to know what you should change without knowing what the students are saying.

      Sounds like getting students to have a more positive experience may be easier than successfully winning grants. Maybe you should start there and focus on adapting to meet the needs of your students.

      You could almost think of it like customer service. Within the rules you have, and the outcomes you need for the students in terms of what they need to learn, you probably have more room to make choices than you think. How can you make the course a positive experience for the students? What do students want? Start there.

      1. Disco Janet*

        Agreed. It’s tough to give advice without hearing more specifics on the feedback you’ve received. I do imagine this is a tough part of being a professor though, in that unlike K-12 educators you typically don’t need formal training on teaching before being hired for the role.

    4. PostalMixup*

      I don’t know what field you’re in, so this may not be relevant to you. I’m in life sciences, and one of the reasons I went into industry was because the funding situation was so terrible, and because I saw how many evenings and weekends my dissertation and post doc advisors put in and had no interest in that life. By the time I defended, a 10% success rate for funding was considered high. My postdoc advisor couldn’t get her work funded, even though she was considered a rising star in her field. My SIL is a professor, and she works all.the.time. I’m not saying it HAS to be that way, but there’s a very real chance that you’re not actually terrible at your job, but that being a professor is just brutal. So maybe think about what it is you really want to do. Is it teaching? Maybe you could step back from research and focus on that (though you may have to change institutions to do so). Is it research? Honestly, I’m doing some really awesome stuff in industry, and work-life balance is real here. Is it truly being a professor? You might have to put in more hours.

      2. Sherm*

        Yeah, I admit my eyebrows rose a little when Agnes said “40 hours,” since the professors I know work far, far more than that. (Not that I like that situation, but that’s the way it is.) I’m sure that most professors don’t work those hours just because they love working and can’t imagine doing anything else with their time, but because that’s what it takes to succeed. Agnes, maybe your field is different and 40 hours or a little more is OK, but one thing to consider is whether longer hours are necessary and whether that’s something you could accept.

        1. KeinName*

          I think some successful tenured professors actually enjoy working a lot. Also, the more senior you are the more committees you are part of and the actual research and publishing is done outside of the standard 40 hours I suppose.
          I would not advise someone to just work longer hours but rather look at what they want out of life in general.

          1. PostalMixup*

            I think some do enjoy it, but I also think that willingness to work a lot was how they became successful. My dissertation advisor was a big name, and he loved to work. Rumor has it that his wife once joked that she knew he’d never have an affair because Science was his mistress and he didn’t have time for another. I routinely got emails from him at 3am and weekends.
            My postdoc advisor and SIL are both pre-tenure. The time commitment doesn’t bother SIL, but Postdoc Advisor was always frazzled and frantic and complaining about the long hours. She definitely would have cut back if she thought she could.

            1. Cedrus Libani*

              There’s definitely a selection process. All else being equal, the people who live and breathe their field will outperform the people who don’t.

              Very early in my career, I took on a volunteer commitment that took over my life for several months. I promised myself that it wouldn’t affect my work. I kept the same hours, and never did any volunteer work on company time. I was SHOCKED at how much less productive I was. As it turned out, I was using my spare time to idly turn over work problems in my head, such that when I was actually working, I knew what to do. But during this time, my brain dropped all thoughts of work the moment I left the office. So I had to do my head scratching on company time, and it really, really showed.

              FWIW, when I was younger, my field was my life. I couldn’t imagine anything I would rather be doing. But even though I genuinely enjoyed the work, my mental health couldn’t take it. Science is hard, things go bad, and when your whole life is science…

              I’m in industry now, paid (well) to nerd about, but I will never be a star. That’s OK. I have a family, and I have hobbies, and I have interesting work.

        2. Esmeralda*

          As an assistant professor, I regularly worked 60 hours/week during the school year. 25 – 40 in the summer when I was not teaching (research, writing, reviewing and revising my class syllabi and preps, attending conferences and workshops, grant writing — less important than in my field, etc)

          My husband is a full professor. In the summer I’d say he works maybe 20 hours a week, depending on whether he has a writing project going, reads for work, some prep for school year administrative tasks ; 50 – 60 during the school year — all the stuff I listed for asst prof plus administrative duties.

          University and college professor is not generally a 40-hour-a-week job.

          TEaching evals: Hard to advise you on this without knowing what the problem is. (I win teaching awards and I still get some crappy teaching evals — almost always well-deserved…) Can you specify what the issues are so that we can make some suggestions.

          And, you may just not be suited for teaching, although I do think that this is an area where effort and good intentions can be helpful, especially if students see it.

      3. Quinalla*

        Yes, have you gotten with your peers and compared notes? Are you really as big an outlier as you think or more average. I know grants can be really tough to get in some areas and a little easier than others. As far as student evaluations, I don’t have much advice here except again, talk to your peers, but evaluations aren’t everything. Are students engaged and learning in your class day-to-day or all barely awake? Use the evaluations as one piece of data to judge with others.

        And yes as others have said, do you like your job? It sounds like you’ve pursued some ways to improved, but have you gotten with peers or mentor(s) to give advice on if there is something more valuable you could be doing?

      4. The New Wanderer*

        I agree. I have a friend from grad school who worked way more than I did, did a post-doc which took up much more of her time than my industry job, and is now a successful professor who started out working 80+ hours/week and probably hasn’t slowed down much. She loves the research, but not the life. She said her student reviews are always a mixed bag but (my guess is) that’s most likely due to the nature of the challenging topics she teaches, not how she teaches or connects with students.

        Speaking of, student reviews are somewhat useful but they’re always going to be skewed by bias. Do you teach a hard subject? Are you a tough grader? Do you enforce less popular policies? All that to say, if you’re continuing to work on your teaching and still not seeing results in the reviews, it might be something you just can’t control or fix.

        OTOH, I had worked in industry before, during, and after grad school and knew that was the life for me. 40 hrs/week is typical for my field, I enjoy what I do, I don’t have to write grants for a living, and my salary is good. Even if you’re in a field that doesn’t have a direct industry equivalent, there are most likely parallel careers that might appeal to you and won’t leave you feeling like you are now.

    5. Stuckinacrazyjob*

      I don’t know but sucking at job solidarity. I’m always missing a form or running out of time to hit the deadline or saying something awkward. It’s been like a year and a half and I *suck*

    6. Alex*

      It could be that the places where you lack skills aren’t things you can just incorporate feedback about and magically fix. They might be things that you need to really invest in improving. Do you have a mentor you could ask about advice on how to improve your specific weaknesses? Have you been able to look at a successful grants and identify why those were successful? From what you write here, it sounds like you’re doing things that check the box of “I tried to improve” like working a certain # of hours or attending workshops, but you might need to just really specifically target your exact weaknesses and identify what improving them would really look like. If you don’t know what success looks like in your work, you can’t move towards it.

    7. Ashley*

      Do you have any former students in your department you could get feedback from? I tended to dislike most professors outside of my major mainly because I didn’t care as much about the subject matter so the bar for a good evaluation was higher.
      It is odd that a good teacher would make a good administrator as I feel like those are very different skill sets and why wouldn’t you want to keep the best teachers in the classroom? Could you translate your field of study into non academics?
      The other option is to rethink this in terms of what are your strengths, what can you do full time and succeed and look for jobs accordingly.

    8. Charlotte Lucas*

      Former adjunct instructor & corporate trainer here. Teaching is hard. And it can be physically, mentally, & emotionally exhausting. Not everyone is great at it, but most people can be good at it with some effort & practice.

      I was required to take a pedagogy class as part of my MA (most grad students were TAs – we taught Comp courses). I found it really useful, along with finding mentors. Do you have any one whose teaching style you admire & would be willing to have regular chats with you? Is there a local group you could join?

      One of the best things about good teachers & trainers is their generosity in sharing their experience with those who are still learning the ropes.

    9. Wondering*

      Do you want to get better at it, or would you be happier pivoting to something you’re already good at or have natural strengths in? To be frank this sounds like the ever-present issue when you obtain positions based on reputation and above one’s current capabilities–you’re always behind and playing catch up.

    10. Sally*

      I can’t speak to the research and funding part because I knew nothing about that side of the business. However, I was one of the highest rated adjuncts on faculty when I taught at a state university and I now work in learning design for an organization that creates training for corporations.

      One of the reasons I got the ratings I got when I was teaching is that I created classes with a clear objective. I knew what my students needed to learn through the semester, as well as on a class by class basis. And I made the classes as interactive as I possibly could.

      That was all instinctive, I did not know until I actually took education classes to get my instructional design certification that those were the strongest teaching methods. But I started out teaching thinking about what my students needed and how to make sure they got that.

      So my recommendation would be for you to look at how you’re teaching.
      What skills are you trying to get your students to develop?
      Are you designing your syllabus and your individual courses in a way that will teach that best?
      Put your focus on the students rather than the content, and I think you’ll find that changes a lot.

    11. Reba*

      That sounds so grinding, I’m sorry.

      Regarding teaching evaluations, those are deeply flawed and your university should not count on them for much (not that that necessarily helps you, of course, but maybe it can lessen the personal sting of harsh evaluations). Evaluations reproduce social biases, i.e. female presenting faculty get worse numbers and sexist feedback. And they tend to measure which courses and subjects are perceived as “easy” vs. “hard,” not teaching effectiveness!

      The line about administrative positions, although it definitely reflects people’s attitudes (e.g. deanships are rewards for high-achieving faculty), I reject that it’s logical or reasonable. Like, isn’t it clear that faculty-ing and administering are different skill sets? Again I know this doesn’t necessarily help you, I just want you to reframe these institutional judgments on yourself as things are are messed up about academia, not you!

      I do know that many early career faculty work a LOT of hours. This is, continuing with my theme, not something that we should think of as good or reasonable. But it does seem to be part of the picture, and something for you to think about as you weigh pathways for staying in the field or moving out.

      1. Batgirl*

        Teaching evals are crazy subjective! Simply moving organisations can have a massive effect on how you’re seen.

        1. AGD*

          I once taught the same class twice, identically, in the same semester. One of the classes was in the late morning, and the other was in the evening. By evening I’m tired, so I thought my evaluations for that session would be lower. The opposite happened. The evening crowd liked me quite a bit more. I now think the reason is that the students were more awake.

          1. Esmeralda*

            Or you were looser.

            Or the dynamics in the two groups was just different.

            I teach three or four sections of the same class now and I like to do them right in a row. The last one I’m *tired* but looser, and also I’ve had the benefit of seeing what worked or didn’t work earlier in the day.

        2. Stephanie*

          Yeah and unless your department/school mandates them, you may only get the students with an axe to grind filling them out. I had perfectly good profs and I just forgot to fill the evaluation out because I didn’t have any real issues with them (mea culpa). My undergrad wouldn’t show you your grades until you filled them out, but even then, I imagine some students might just put in perfunctory answers to get it done.

    12. Tessera Member 042*

      Are you taking advantage of all the university resources? For example, I know the Grants office ran workshops for grad students; might they have examples of successful grants in your field you could look at, like @Alex mentioned? Or someone who could work with you individually to help you revise? And are you sure that your failure rate is unusual, as @PostalMixup mentioned, or is it actually on par with your field?

      What about the Teaching and Learning Center (or whatever department focuses on pedagogy)? Based on the responses in your student evals and peer observations, can you find one area to target and turn to them for resources and help? Would it be possible for you to co-teach a class with someone else? It could be useful to see someone else’s approach to the same class and for an extended period of time.

      For help looking at job opportunities outside academia, most college career centers are trying to do a better job of advertising industry jobs to PhD students and coaching them about how to spin their education and experience for those realms; it might be there are resources on your career center page you can also make use of.

    13. Rachel in NYC*

      On the grants- maybe starts with finding someone you trust, who you know has been successful writing grants and getting them funded. See if they’d be willing to go over one of your grant applications with you.

      Or if your school has someone who writes grants, even if they aren’t in your department, maybe they’d be willing to speak with you one-on-one.

    14. Accounting is fun*

      Judging your teaching just by your student evaluations is hard. It is like grading yourself strictly from YELP! reviews. The reviews have the same biases that students tend to have. Research shows that generally non-white male instructors have 1 point lower student evaluations than white male instructors. Also, peer evaluations tend to have issues as well because you tend to change how you teach when you know you are being observed. Teaching is hard, and unfortunately, college-level faculty get very little training and help in improving teaching and outcomes. So – suggestion 1 is to do observations yourself to see if you can build from their work. How does Prof. J do it? Does that work for you? Another idea is go to your school’s internal education outlets – if they have them.

      One thing to think about. Often, we put new faculty teaching introductory-level courses. This isn’t the best idea. You want your most experienced teachers in the introductory courses, and your new instructors in the higher level courses. I know it seems weird, but it is honestly easier to teach higher level courses than it is to teach introductory courses.

      Finally – grant writing is hard. You don’t know exactly what they want to fund. It’s like constantly getting reviewer #2. So – see if you can get a mentor from your department that is successful in writing grants.

      Academics are often thrown into the deep end with little support of things like teaching and grant writing. It’s assumed because we have succeeded at research and jumping through the hoops of getting that far that we will be able to figure out everything else on our own. Unfortunately, that is NOT true, and often, our colleagues are competitors and aren’t really willing to be mentors.

      I’m sorry I don’t have more help for you, but, it is something to consider. It is also incredibly hard. You have trained for probably 7+ years for a job and now you are not feeling successful in it. The training you get also makes you sometimes “over-educated” for other jobs (depending on your field). It is a catch-22 that isn’t easy to navigate. I’m feeling like I am in a similar position to you, sometimes. So – chin up! Start considering a plan B, and see what you can do about finding some mentors.

    15. College Career Counselor*

      Agreed with the other folks that it’s hard to offer concrete advice when it’s not clear where your (perceived or real) deficits may be. And, it may be that being a professor just sucks. As for moving to administration, is there a particular aspect that you might focus on? Do you LIKE the grantwriting aspect? Many universities have a corporate and foundation relations department that is heavily involved in working with faculty and others to write grant proposals. Talk with those people to see if your skills/experience might match up. (I wouldn’t worry about the unfunded proposal hit rate–if you’re in the sciences, especially, it’s brutal)

      What about working with students? Do you enjoy it? Are you comfortable talking with them outside of lecture/class? Is there a particular population of students that you like to work with? (First generation, athletes, greek life, underrepresented groups, those with learning/accessibility challenges, The Lost Boys*, etc.) Many universities have student affairs/advising roles working with all kinds of student groups on advising, engagement, retention, experiential learning, etc. Perhaps there’s a way to incorporate your research background with working with students interested in pursuing similar kinds of activities.

      Depending on your situation, it may be that you have to move to a different university or college to make the change you want. I don’t if that’s possible given geographic or other constraints you may be operating under.

      *The Lost Boys is what I sometimes call the group of younger undergraduates, mostly male, who are underperforming academically, over-participating in judicial review, and not really sure why the hell they’re in college but they’re supposed to be.

    16. Good Enough for Government Work*

      The fact that you recognize that you’re struggling and want to improve is a great sign! It sounds like you could really benefit from some coaching with a mentor whose judgment you trust. Could your old advisor or head of your Department give you meaningful feedback on the issues with the grants—maybe you need to shift the focus of your research? Are there patterns in the student feedback? Workshops are great, but are you connecting the negative feedback you’re getting with a plan to make specific improvements?

      Also, it is possible your heart just isn’t in the work you’re doing? Why are you in the field you’re in? What do you like about teaching and working with students? Maybe tapping into what excites you about your field could help you refocus? I’ve found the best teachers I had were ones with passion for their subjects—the enthusiasm is infectious. Good luck!

    17. Weekend Please*

      I’m not sure what field you are in, but have you considered transitioning to industry. I’m in academia (biomedical) and a lot of my former classmates went into industry because they didn’t want to teach, write grants or work 60 hours a week. Maybe that would be a good fit for you. I have to say I don’t know many early stage professors who only work 40 hours a week. Academia basically expects your job to be your life and it doesn’t sound like you want that.

      1. Momma Bear*

        I have a friend who did that – pivoted to a non-academic job for a while and re-evaluated after a few years.

    18. STEM Prof*

      I’m also a prof, at an institution where research is approximately 0% of my job. I did my PhD in a STEM field at a university that prioritizes research over teaching, so I do understand some of the struggles in balancing the two.

      I will say that most of the professors that I know of at research-centric universities do work more than 40 hours a week. The workaholics (my PhD advisors for sure, probably others in the department) worked 70-80 hours a week. That’s not healthy or reasonable. I’d say, though, that 40 hours might be on the low side. How many hours do your department colleagues work? Personally, I hate working on weekends, so if I need to I’ll work an extra hour or two a day during the week rather than a few hours on Saturday or Sunday.

      How much time do you spend on the different parts of your job? Are you supervising graduate students or undergraduate students or both? Are you tenure track, and if so, where along the track are you? Are you publishing even if you aren’t getting grants?

      Student evaluations are often biased and unreliable, especially for women and BIPOC folks. (I once had a student say that my class didn’t have a syllabus!) The type of course you teach (what discipline, requirement vs. elective), and the level of the course (freshman level vs senior level), can have an impact on evaluations as well. How much weight evaluations carry varies by institution, though it sounds like your university cares about them to some degree. What does your department chair say? Did your peer observers give you good feedback?

      You are doing so many things right- seeking out feedback and incorporating it, going to workshops, etc. I’m sure you don’t need me to tell you that the current grant funding landscape is a nightmare, and that so many worthy grants aren’t funded. I would bet that many, if not most, of your grants fall into that category. I mean, one of my PhD advisors, who is extremely well known and respected in our field, had a grant that was rated extremely highly and it still wasn’t funded. I’ve also never heard of anyone who only got their job because of their advisor/institution. The hiring committee must have seen something in you that led them to believe that you were the right person for the job.

      The last thing I’ll say is that academia can be extremely stressful and draining. It seems like you are being very hard on yourself as well, especially when you claim that you got your job because of your advisor, that you’re massively overpaid, and that you suck at your job. I know many grad students and professors that struggle with depression, but it isn’t talked about because of the stigma surrounding mental health. There’s no shame in seeking help if you need it.

    19. PhysicsTeacher*

      I don’t have any insight about the research problem (high school teacher here) but teaching is something that I believe anyone can improve at (although I do think there are some people who have slightly more natural aptitude). When you say your teaching evaluations are bad, what things are being evaluated? How is your relationship with your students? What things do your evaluators point out?

    20. OtterB*

      Some institutions have a resource office to help specifically with improving teaching skills. Is yours one of them?

      Do you have a mentor at all? For different purposes it can be helpful to talk to someone in your department, someone at your institution but in an adjacent or different field, or someone in your field at a different institution. Can your old advisor help? It seems like you may need to disentangle a 3-way mix: things that are genuinely problems with your skills or your fit to the job, things that are hard for everyone that you’re taking more personally than you need to, and a generally negative filter you might have developed that makes you paint everything as a failure when some things may actually be okay.

      Where are your successes? Is there something you’ve gotten good feedback on, something you’re happy with?

      Could the problem be a mismatch between you and the institution? Faculty jobs are not uniform and neither are departments. Maybe you’re in the wrong place.

      Funding availability depends a lot on your field, but it’s becoming harder and harder to come by, as PostalMixup says.

      Good luck with it.

    21. Almost Academic*

      What kind of institution are you at? I ask because that will really impact how you spend your time (although you say your time is aligned)

      If it’s an R1 and you’re not getting grants, that’s a problem (even though funding is dismal). How are your publications? Are there collaborations or public datasets you could work on, while still applying for funding? What resources does your grants office have, and are you taking advantage of them?

      It sounds like what you’ve hit is a skills deficit- which is totally normal, because unfortunately academia does a really poor job of providing the teaching and mentorship you need to actually do your job! I would suggest connecting with a mentor and/or tenured faculty member at your institution for suggestions. For building up other skills deficits, I’ve found the following resources helpful:

      1. Research / Grants: There are a lot of great workbooks our there that walk you through the process. I’m not sure what grants you are applying to, but asking around in your field may help. I would also recommend applying for a lot of smaller grants and awards, often these are less popular and needed prior to getting larger funding.

      2. Teaching: There are so many resources for improving teaching, your institution probably has a center for teaching excellence or something along those lines. Make sure your alignment across your course goals, assignments, and metrics is clear (and make them clear to the students through learning objectives). It can be really helpful to record your lecture to see where you can be improved. I would also recommend sitting in on other classes and taking notes of what works well. Your specific discipline may have groups for improving teaching and sharing sample syllabi. Don’t reinvent the wheel, instead ask for resources from other really good teachers. Also, put a lot of effort into showing students that you care – unfortunately this is what many good ratings are based on.

      Overall, sympathies. Academia is brutal, even if you are doing everything “right”.

    22. KeinName*

      I work in university administration, giving support to predocs and postdocs and have a PhD myself. Teaching evaluations have a number of biases (gender for one), and rejection quotas for grants in your field should be available somewhere. You might consider that you are not actually bad at your job.
      To survive in academia you need supportive mentors and a peer group. You could work towards that.
      If you are not enjoying your work anymore there is no shame in moving to industry or research support positions.
      But if you do enjoy your work just do it until someone tells you they don‘t want you there anymore (which might never Happen) and enjoy yourself as much as you can. In work and outside work.

    23. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

      If you want to increase your awarded grants, try working with the development team. There is virtually always a “Corporate and Foundation Relations” (or similar) team who will work with faculty to improve their grant applications.

    24. Millenial Professor*

      In your field, what are the consequences of not getting grants funded? Do you need grants to be able to support your research (in particular, to pay grad student salaries) and get tenure, or is that not expected and it’s more like icing on the cake if you do get one?

      Have you thought about collaborating on a grant as a co-PI with someone with a track record of funding?

      You didn’t mention publishing in your letter, but if you’re doing OK at publishing your research, you probably don’t suck at your job! I’d also consider the possibility that your teaching evaluations aren’t as bad as you think. I know that for me, one negative comment can overshadow 20 positive ones.

      Finally, have you considered trying something like the Faculty Success Program (https://www.facultydiversity.org/fsp-bootcamp)? It’s kind of pricey, but you did mention you were overpaid.

      1. TL -*

        “In particular, to pay grad student salaries” – this is super field dependent; over here in biomed, there’s no research at all without funding and most labs spend easily upward of a hundred thousand a year on consumables and machines alone; the bigger ones get into the millions.

      2. Researcher*

        Re: grad student salaries – if you can’t fund student salaries/stipends for grad students or post docs, engage undergraduates. Most will work for just a good letter of recommendation. Yes, you get what you pay for, but good ones can at least assist you with gathering some preliminary data for your grant applications.

        Make sure you have some help.

    25. anon here*

      1) What is your article-writing like?

      2) who are your friends?

      If we were sitting down to coffee (I left academia for a variety of reasons, but near the end got 2 grants in which I was co-PI), I’d say you should consider writing more grants with other people who have been successful. You need to figure out how you’re different than the “successful” people if you want to be successful — you need to either change to be like them, or go even further in the other direction to be wildly different and distinctive. Collaborating strategically is one way to explore these possibilities (and ideally have fun, too — I liked working with others). Organizing workshops etc with these folks is a way to dip your toe in the water.

      You can also just leave academia for more money in corporate.

      I’ll say that my experience as an academic in a field you’d think would be really ripe for consulting was this: as a young woman, I got nothing in terms of consulting offers. I asked my older male colleagues how they got their lucrative consulting gigs, and it was all “my roommate from college called me… I was at a party and this guy said oh, you must be smart, want to do some consulting?….” I never was able to break through from an academic position. Now that I’m in industry, though, amusingly I am consulting on some academic projects, because the academicians need my experience :)

    26. TL -*

      First of all, I think talking to a therapist might help – figuring out if this is really what you want to do and getting some outside perspective and new strategies for dealing with the constant failure that is research. Look for one that is familiar with the beast of academia, and don’t be afraid to look virtual to find them.

      Breaking this down – what kind of school are you at? At my undergrad, our biggest grantmaker in chemistry (at $900k, which is not huge for the field) was told he wouldn’t get tenure if his student evals didn’t go up, while the institutes I work with now basically only care that you’re not breaking the law (and even then, it’s iffy), but if you’re not publishing in top tier journals and bringing in substantial grant money, you’re not getting tenure. Which is more important for you to succeed at to get to the next step of your career – and is that where you want to end up?

      I’m also going to say that 40 hrs a week isn’t a lot for academia (definitely not in my field and in my country, at least!) and if the thought of working more doesn’t seem palatable, that’s something to consider when you think about your long-term plans. There’s also absolutely nothing wrong with deciding that you want a small, focused research group where you have enough money to get by and do solid research, but you don’t want to be a superstar in your field (but you do need tenure or long-term stability to get there.)

      Finally, seconding looking for co-PI opportunities on grants with successful appliers. And how are your communications skills? Do you write and present well? If not (and there is little training on that in academia) working on those first would help both your grant applications and your teaching.

    27. Cascadia*

      Teacher here! I found it incredibly frustrating that no one teaches professors how to teach well. We have entire college majors for how to teach up to age 18, but nothing beyond that. Being an engaging teacher is really hard work, it is a learned skill that takes a lot of practice, a lot of trial and error, and comes more easily to some than others. I would look at the evaluations certainly, especially for patterns, but I wouldn’t use that as your only evaluation point. Some students give terrible evaluations because you’re a tough grader, or hold them to a high standard. But sometimes they really have a point! It might be super helpful to be observed by some peers or a mentor, who can give you feedback. I’d also highly recommend trying to observe others teaching, especially any rock star professors that students seem to really love. Watch their classes and see how they do things, how they engage with students and the material. It doesn’t need to be in the same subject matter to give you some good tips on how to improve. I’d also highly recommend you really think about whether or not you want to teach. You don’t mention that you like it it at all, so I can’t tell. I’d recommend you do some soul searching to find out if it’s actually something you enjoy. I have no idea how many hours you’re in class, how much homework you give, or anything like that – but most teachers I know work more than 40 hours a week while teaching – with grading, lessons plans, and individual help for students, it takes a lot of time! I’m not saying you should be working more, but if your students are lacking feedback, or your lessons aren’t well planned, that could be an area to devote some more time. Good luck!

  8. Elenia*

    A middle management job opened at my company. I ws speaking to one of my best employees who had expressed interest in it. Lo! An announcement was made within a few days that they had selected another internal candidate without even interviewing.
    Ok, fine, but at least please tell the other middle managers like myself. I don’t understand a culture of secrecy. If you don’t want the rank and file staff to know, just tell us so we don’t share it, but so dumb to just move somebody into the position as a SURPRISE!

    1. WellRed*

      Agreed with every thing you say, but in the interest of combatting secrecy, did you say anything about this to your company?

      1. Elenia*

        Yes, i sent a polite email this morning to a VP asking that middle management at least be given a heads up. it’s embarrassing when we don’t know what is happening!

  9. ThatGirl*

    My new job/company does not have a formal sick-time policy. We have our standard PTO, but sick time is un-tracked and informal — I was told if I’m sick, let my manager know; if it will be more than 2 days they can ask for a doctor’s note. That was pretty much it. I rarely get sick, but I think this is great in theory — however, I’m curious if other people have seen this sort of policy in place and how it played out.

    1. Nessun*

      We’re somewhat similar – we track sick time separate from PTO, in that we have to choose a code for our timesheets that says “sick” instead of “PTO”, but we have an unlimited amount. We also have to speak to a supervisor if we’re off more than 5 days in a row, because that invokes some different liability issues and pushes it to short term disability. I’ve never seen anyone abuse the policy (20 years with the company, several direct reports), and people appreciate that they can take time off when they’re sick so they can feel better, not get others sick, and heal faster. There is a requirement to tell someone, so that work is covered, but it’s never been an issue. I consider the whole policy a plus when hiring.

    2. Bean Counter Extraordinaire*

      My company has this – granted, I’ve only been here for 6 months, so I don’t have a lot of long-term insight to how it plays out, but at least in my department, nobody is abusing the privilege!

    3. Ali G*

      My husband’s company is like this. If you are sick, you are sick. Depending on the issue they may ask for proof (like if you need weeks off for surgery or something). I’m not sure what happens if you need a lot of time off for health reasons, but I know he’s had staff that needed time and it wasn’t an issue.

    4. Ann Perkins*

      Ours is like this too. Small employer, we all accrue PTO at the same rate (half day per month) but vacation accrues based on length of time here. Effectively PTO = sick time but if you don’t use it for sick time you can use it for vacation days. It works well, it’s not an office with micromanaging so that helps.

      1. ThatGirl*

        That doesn’t sound quite the same – I have PTO/vacation time that’s only for days off. Sick time doesn’t accrue and is not counted or tracked anywhere; it’s simply taken as needed.

    5. Malarkey01*

      We switched to this about a decade ago, and then switched back to having allotted earned sick leave 2 years ago. The thing I noticed that caused unexpected problems was that once it was unlimited people got into the habit of judging whether someone “really” needed to take so much time, and others that were sick would rationalize in their heads that maybe they weren’t so sick. When it was earned bank of time no one thought twice about Beth, the migraine sufferer needing a day a month on average, afterwards people wondered if Beth was taking advantage when Jane didn’t take the same number of days.

      There have been a lot of studies on how unlimited PTO actually leads to less time taken so I assume this is similar.

      1. ThatGirl*

        This is sort of what I was wondering about — does it actually discourage people from taking sick time? I don’t know, and obviously it can depend on the company, but that’s why I was curious.

        Not only do I not get sick often, but my sick days are more frequently “I’m blowing my nose a lot so I can work but it’s better if I do it from home” — which, we’re all entirely remote right now anyway, and even when we do go back to the office, I’m told WFH will be available.

      2. JHunz*

        My take on it is that management’s attitude on sick time being taken can drastically change how willing people are to use it. I had to take 2 weeks this year after a surgery (and an additional week when I wasn’t recovering as fast as I’d hoped) and nobody blinked an eye except to do some planning on how to split out the workstreams while I was out.

    6. Rachel in NYC*

      My office has this (without the sick notes)- I’ve been here 7 years. I was really confused at first but they mean it. It’s great because people don’t come in when they are sick and possibly contagious.

      Plus we still have separate PTO and doctor visit days cuz we’re in New York.

    7. JQWADDLE*

      I had this type of policy at a company. My experience was that it was enforced differently by different managers and with unlimited sick days, it seemed like people took FEWER sick days.

      Enforcement – My manager was great. If we were sick, he would say “Stay home, get better.”. Another manager tried to tell a coworker with a long term illness that the coworker had to take vacation for appointments (!).

      Usage – This really boils down to culture. The culture at the company was to work work work. People seemed to wear coming into work sick like a badge of honor. I think there was also a bit of fear that if you used your sick time it would be counted against you come review time even though it was advertised as “Unlimited”.

    8. Anonymous Hippo*

      I’ve only worked at two companies, but this was the policy at both. Works great. Don’t have to burn PTO on being sick, and you don’t have to worry about the number of sick days in case you have an extra sick winter or what have you. So if I’m sick, I just text or email my boss and let him know I won’t be in. I even use it from time to time on a mental health day.

    9. Annie Moose*

      My company used to be like this, then switched to 30 days of sick time before you need to start talking about FMLA (so, basically still “whenever you need to” unless you have a chronic condition of some kind!). I think it’s nice when you have managers who support sick time usage and don’t make a fuss over it because you don’t have to plan out sick days or worry about using too many or anything like that. It’s just, can I reasonably work today? Not really… okay, I’ll take the day I guess. Far as I know I’ve never had a coworker who’s tried to abuse the policy, either.

      On the flip side, I think policies like this can be a problem if you have managers who pressure you to take fewer of them. When you have a set number of sick days, it can be easier to stand firm and go, no, this is fine, I’m still under [amount the company has determined as The Correct Amount of Sick Days]. Whereas when it’s unlimited/a very high number, you can sometimes worry if you’re taking more than you should.

      tl;dr: my work does this, I think it’s great, but if you have a sucky manager it might not work as well

    10. Haha Lala*

      My company works just like this too. I have PTO time (vacation and personal) that we get a set amount of each year, and separate, unlimited sick time. We can use sick time for sick days, mental health days, or other medical reasons– like surgery, sick kids, etc. Our policy states that a Dr.’s note is needed for more than 3 consecutive days, which seems reasonable.

      I make sure to keep track of my sick days on my own to make sure it doesn’t get excessive, but that’s not been an issue over my 5 years here. And from what I’ve seen, my coworkers actually do take off when they’re sick, since they don’t have to choose between loosing a vacation day or infecting the office.

    11. Mr. Shark*

      My team is this way, and it seems like people are rarely ever sick. Once in awhile you might get someone out sick, but it doesn’t seem to happen often.
      I think it’s nice. No one keeps track of sick days, and you can take time off out of the day to go to appointments or the doctor without costing any PTO. PTO is really only if you are taking vacation.
      If you are sick for longer than 3 days than obviously you have already notified your manager, and at that point I think it is considered short term leave or you can take PTO. I can only think of one person on our team that has required that after a serious health condition. I’m not sure how that was handled except we do have the more long-term leave for which you get a % of your salary.
      But for the most part, I like that we don’t have to track every hour or every day that we need to be off due to health issues. As long as no one is abusing it, it works well.

    12. Jemima Bond*

      This sounds very much like the way it works for everyone in the UK and it plays out fine I think. I mean there are rules you can’t just take unlimited time off sick with no effect (where I work, public sector, you can have five days self certified then you need a doctors note, and if you have a long term issue, after six months you go down to half pay) but there isn’t a limited number of days you can take, you can’t ‘run out’ as such, and they aren’t earned or dependent on length of service. Having a certain number if “sick days” or not being able to take time off when you are ill is basically an alien concept here. Leave (=vacation) is totally separate.

  10. No Tribble At All*

    First question: what level of mistakes do you talk about in a job interview? I’ve read AAM’s guide for interviews, and one of the sample questions you’ll be asked is “Tell us about a time you made a mistake at work.” So…. a medium size mistake? Not a small, trivial one (“I put a typo in an internal email”), because then you’re not taking the question seriously, but you don’t want a serious one either, because it reflects really poorly on yourself (“I was tired and told an annoying customer to go f themselves and get out of my face”). On a scale of 1 – 5, where 1 is a trivial mistake and 5 is just shy of career-ending event, you’d talk about a 2 or a 3?

    1. MissGirl*

      I don’t focus on the size of the mistake but how I fixed it and systems I put into place to keep it from happening again.

      What they want to see is the ability to acknowledge error and grow from it. They also want to measure your self-awareness. Pick a mistake that demonstrates this.

      1. Littorally*

        This.

        I’d even be okay going with a near-career-ending mistake if it was a) long enough ago that I can reasonably say that’s no longer how I do things and b) had my best story for recovering from it.

        What they’re asking for is the recovery. This is a classic STAR question, and you shouldn’t be devoting more than a sentence or two to the nature of the mistake itself. They don’t really care about that. They care about the fixing of it.

    2. Kramerica Industries*

      I usually go with 3-4 where I make sure that I showcase that I can take ownership of my mistake, how I corrected it, and/or what I learned.

      So in your “I was tired and told a customer to f off” example, I would go with something like “I was having an off day, which we all have sometimes, and ended up being overly rude to a customer. I didn’t realize it at the time, but once I thought about the situation more, I was mortified. Now, I’m a lot more perceptive of myself and I realize that taking a bit of time to slow down makes a big difference in how I deal with stress, making sure I’m always courteous towards others, regardless of what happened earlier in the day.”

    3. AndersonDarling*

      You’d want a mistake that required some kind of corrections/follow-up. Your interviewer is wondering how you handle mistakes, more than the kind of mistake. You’ll want to describe how you found the mistake, acknowledged that you made the mistake, you informed your manager/customer that you made the mistake, and you took action to make it right.

    4. Who moved my cheese?*

      You want to talk about a level 2-4 mistake that you handled well and fixed well. Maybe you implemented a new checklist or process or automated check. Maybe you smoothed things over with your impeccable people skills, or saved the day by offering your client a special discount. Your response to the mistake is likely more important than how “big” it was, although you’re right to avoid something so small it doesn’t do you any credit (“I fixed my typo”) or so big it creates doubts about your judgment.

    5. irene adler*

      I don’t think it’s the size of mistake so much as how one handles it.
      Of course, don’t give one where you come off badly. And don’t make it something like “the time I set the building on fire and saved my co-workers lives” sort of thing. The typo would work- assuming the typo had some consequence to it (wrong zip code or it led to a misunderstanding).

      Show that you remedied the mistake without causing upset/more work for others (personally went to recipient and gave them the correct info). And that you have something in place that will prevent the mistake from occurring again (for example: always proofread emails before hitting ‘send’).

    6. Sick Of Applying*

      I go with the one you can spin into the most positive outcome. For example, I’ve used one where I tolerated a colleagues mistakes to the point I just did his portion of the work I needed myself. That was my mistake (among everyone else’s in my department). He never learned about the mistake, or learned what he needed to correct it. After this person left for another job, we all realized we were basically doing his job and created more work for ourselves while he was launching a side hustle on company time. After that, I speak up respectfully to let them know that they need to be either more careful or need more training.

      I hope that helps.

    7. Parquet*

      I’ve talked about mistakes that had company-internal impacts (so not affecting client work at all), like one that resulted in my manager delivering very incorrect metrics to our division head or when I accidentally broke part of the team’s data pipelines and had unscheduled downtime for repairing it. Serious enough for the question but nothing unfixable or unforgivable, and I also mention how I pinpointed what went wrong and what I did to fix it (e.g., I explained and presented the accurate results to our division head in the first case).

    8. Disco Janet*

      Like others have said, the focus should be on how you handled the mistake, but yes, I would say medium size. Even better is a common mistake for people in your field. For example, I’m a teacher, so I talk about a time I realized that a lesson I was teaching was too high or low for my student’s ability level, and how I handled it and then worked to prevent it from happening again in the future.

    9. Malarkey01*

      Mistakes that were from a bad assumption, incorrect risk determination, or unanticipated consequence are better than straight errors or unprofessional actions in my opinion.

      Something like I did not fully appreciate the amount of customer angst over this change I was making, or I did not anticipate that making x change would expose us to a higher risk of y happening… and then explaining how that experience has led to improving your decision making process by incorporating this or that into your evaluation process or how you now solicit additional information in x, or how you’ve improved risk mitigation on y process.
      Avoid things about inappropriate conduct like your example of telling off a customer.

    10. Aurélia*

      I think a 2/3 is a good idea, especially if you can share the solution you worked on to fix it and what you’re doing to prevent it in the future.

    11. Rachel in NYC*

      I think of it as- if you have a mistake that you tell people when you train to remind them that mistakes aren’t the end of the world, you take ownership, you correct, you move on.

      That’s the mistake (or mistakes, I’d use)

    12. Not So NewReader*

      Definitely stay down around a 2 or a 3. Think of it this way, we can guestimate how others will handle a large mistake by seeing how they handle smaller mistakes.

      If you are afraid to tell your boss that you dropped your computer mouse into a bucket of water and the lost mouse becomes an epic story as you try to cover up the loss, then what will you do if something actually difficult happens?
      It gives them an idea of how you handle things when the chips are down.

    13. RagingADHD*

      I’d choose one that leads into the line “and that’s how I learned the importance of …”

      With the important thing being a habit, practice, or principle that has made you a better team member overall — good communication, diligent checking, facing issues directly, being proactive to solve things before they become urgent, etc.

    14. Cassidy*

      “(“I was tired and told an annoying customer to go f themselves and get out of my face”).

      My DREAM interview involves saying exactly this!

      I will see myself out…

    15. Esmeralda*

      No zero level mistakes, btw. Yeah, we had a candidate tell us that they did not make any mistakes. “Haha” I said, “No, really, we all make mistakes! Please tell us about…” Candidate would NOT talk about any mistakes. None. Zilch. We really liked them up to that point, but then we started probing hard for lack of self-awareness, inability to take responsibility/ownership, shifting blame to others, communication skills… It was a much less pleasant interview for both the committee and the candidate from that point on. They performed well on the variuos tasks during their time at our office, and the hiring officer liked them — committee strongly recommend probing all those areas with references.
      Was not hired.

      1. allathian*

        Yeah. Everybody makes mistakes. Someone who claims they don’t will be unlikely to take corrective feedback well.

  11. Satisfactory Worker*

    Question: I work in the public sector. We’re all labeled essentials workers and have been back in the office since May. We have plenty of precautions (mask wearing, social distancing, lots of extra cleaning, etc.) and have limited public contact. We have been pretty lucky so far, and have only had one case spread at work, and no one has caught cases from the public.

    We have encouraged employees not to come in sick and follow CDC quarantine and isolation protocols. Our governing agency did not grant us any extra time or make us eligible for FFCRA, but our regular leave accruals are generous.

    There are a handful of individuals who, due to not taking precautions in their non-work lives, are on their 3rd or 4th quarantine period (they have never caught COVID but continue to get exposed outside of work). Other workers have to absorb their workload over and over, and this is our busiest time of year. We have sent guidelines and precautions and kept up our workers up to date on what is going on and how to protect themselves. How do we balance accountability for these workers without being so heavy-handed that people are afraid to report if they have been exposed/are sick?

    1. Dave*

      I think this is basic problem with how COVID is spread. If people don’t take this as seriously they take more risks leading to more potential exposures. To me I take it as people that generally don’t care about others.
      At this point I would say try to hold out hope for the vaccine and that they get the vaccine. I haven’t heard what happens if you have the vaccine and you have a potential exposure at that point though.

      1. Bagpuss*

        I think if you have the vaccine followed by exposure you still need to self isolate as the vaccine doesn’t prevent you getting (or s[reading) Covid, it means you are much less likely to get it severely.
        Presumably as more people have the jab and have a level of immunity that will start to change as the level of risk posed by exposing people falls, but short term I think the position will still be to isolate if you are or might be infectious, because while you may have been vaccinated, the person you interact with may not have been and may still be at risk of a severe case

        1. Natalie*

          One clarification – it’s not that the vaccine definitively doesn’t prevent transmission, we simply don’t know at this time, or how effectively. There is plenty of reason to think vaccinated people will be less likely to transmit covid to others, if nothing else because symptomatic people are more efficient spreaders than non-symptomatic people. But the data hasn’t been been collected. Between that, and the fact that vaccine rollout is slow going, having been vaccinated doesn’t change how anyone should behave quite yet.

    2. Clare*

      I know it is incredibly galling to me when people I know do reckless things (like going on a beach vacation with high school friends!), but I think given the utter lack of social supports you’re better off sticking with your current methods. I’m always at risk of being potentially exposed due to helping care for elderly grandparents, plus having a toddler who can’t skip well child check ups. I’ve heard neighbors without young children complain about how mothers (no mention of fathers) who have their kids in daycare are putting the whole community at risk, with no regard for the fact that most people can’t just quit their jobs. I don’t think there’s a way to shape a policy to strongly discourage risky behavior without impacting people with care responsibilities, second jobs, or spouses/housemates in health care settings.

    3. Malarkey01*

      This is so frustrating about this whole thing. I think a good approach though is to decide what is the preferred outcome between covering workload or getting sick yourself.
      At 10 months in, if people are being reckless (multiple close calls versus someone who took a “reasonable” risk and was exposed) nothing the employer does will stop this. So, as much as it sucks and as much as employers should be taking note of who seems to be using bad judgement, I think the trade off of covering more work to continue to ensure a safe workplace is the better of two evils so to speak.

    4. RagingADHD*

      Can the people who have stepped up to do extra coverage be rewarded with flextime when the busy season is over?

      It’s an acknowledgement that they earned a break, but not such a big incentive that people would be tempted to skip quarantine.

      1. JustaTech*

        Yes, if there’s some way to reward the people who stepped up, that’s the best thing you can do in this situation. This is one of the hardest things about health/medicine: you have to do your best to pull your (very reasonable) moral judgments out of how you respond.
        You can’t just *not* treat Stan for his injuries just because this is the fifth time he’s wrecked his car because he’s a terrible driver. You don’t *not* treat someone’s lung cancer even if they smoked a pack a day for 30 years.
        In order to keep everyone safe you need the people who are exposed and potentially contagious to stay home, no matter if they got exposed at an illegal house party or pulling someone out of a car wreck or from their kid’s teacher.
        It’s hard, but if you can focus on praising and rewarding the people who stepped up (if you can’t give them money or time off, can you give them a formal letter of commendation to go in their employee record and count towards their next review?) you’ll be encouraging good practices.

      2. Anhaga*

        I like this idea of “reward the responsible.” Using a carrot rather than a stick can sometimes prevent the “lying to avoid punishment” problem, and if it’s not officially put out there as a sort of celebration, but is instead meted out fairly to those who have pitched in to cover the work of others as a sort of “this is a normal thing” bonus, it might help to avoid the fussing that could happen if a big deal were made. That way, the ones who contributed to the problem wouldn’t feel they were being reprimanded, and those who contributed to make sure stuff still got done would feel recognized.

    5. SomebodyElse*

      Even the most careful people can be exposed multiple times. Using myself as an example, I have not exactly been a social butterfly since all of this started, and even in my limited activities I come into contact with people and could be exposed through no fault of my own. So it’s one of those things where you (as a manager/employer) just have deal.

      For those wondering here are my potential exposure points for the last 2 months:
      Grocery Store x 4
      Drug Store x1
      Doggy Daycare 6 visits/week (drop off and pick up)
      Senior independent living community x 5 or 6 (I’m a caregiver to a resident)
      Home -Everyday (I live with a high exposure risk professional who has had at least 7 confirmed covid contacts from coworkers in addition to daily frontline covid patient care)

      So is it my fault if I get sick and/or preventively quarantine? You can’t have it both ways… either you let them stay home or they start coming in with all the risk that entails.

  12. Aurélia*

    So, I’m leaving my dysfunctional workplace at the end of the month (yay! HR just needs to be responsive!) and have been letting people know here and there. Been going ok, but one person I’m nervous to let know is my would-be sponsor. He had been trying to get me over to his department but nothing had worked out to date. He’s been less responsive recently and I keep meaning to call him, but can’t seem to figure out the right words. Like, “Hi Jon! Going to be starting at a new position at OtherOrg on 1 February. Your goodwill and guidance has meant a lot to me over the years and I hope we work together again.” But I’m not sure that’s deferential enough? Has anyone let a sponsor know they’re leaving the organization and maintained a positive relationship? Tips?

        1. Firecat*

          I think what you wrote at the bottom is great. Maybe add a few specific things that you felt helped your or will help you in the future.

          I had a former employee write me a thank you card about all the Adobe tricks I taught her. Years later I still have it because it is so nice to see how I helped her.

    3. Toxic Workplace Survivor*

      Your script is quite good. If you’re feeling a bit awkward about it, you can note it in the moment; admitting to a certain awkwardness might put YOU more at ease: “Hi Jon! I have some news to share and it’s a little awkward so I’ll get right to it. I’m moving to OtherOrg on 1 February.” If you want to talk more about your and Jon’s relationship you can add a “I had mixed feelings about leaving, since I have some good relationships here – especially with you – but in the end it’s the right thing to do for me.”

      To be honest though I would suggest less is more and no need to lie if you are glad to get the hell out of there. If you have a bond with Jon I’m sure he’ll be happy for you and be sorry to see you go but as Alison always says, this kind of thing happens in workplaces. It’s less awkward than you think!

    4. Your Local Cdn*

      If you have a specific example to add of how they helped your career/development, I find that’s a really great way to make it more personal!

    5. Zephy*

      Your script is good, honestly – especially that second sentence, that’s very good. If you’re comfortable with him having it, you can offer your personal contact info (phone number/email address) so that he can stay in touch with you after you leave.

    6. Venus*

      I think it would help to acknowledge his help in trying to find a spot in his department.
      “I want to thank you for all your efforts in trying to find me a spot in your department. I would have prefered to work with you as my experiences with you are so positive, yet this opportunity came up and I’m hopeful that it will be the fun new challenge that I have been seeking.”

      I have felt guilty about something similar, where someone had been working to help me and I ended up leaving for something that was an immediate improvement, and I felt badly for what I thoguht would be ‘lost’ work on their part. In the end they made me realise that they thought well of me and it didn’t matter where I went provided that I was out of my dysfunctional situation. I went to them to apologise and never did, as their immediate positive response made me realise that no apology was needed.

    7. Aurélia*

      Super helpful! Thank you everyone. Appreciate the sanity-check and wording suggestions. Feels like one of those situations where I’ve just been stuck and I need to move out to move up and hopefully work with the handful of people, like Jon, who have had my back and made my work-life easier again down the road.

  13. Anon for this question*

    My manager recently did a large data import; I’m ultimately responsible for the accuracy of the data. The batch import was intended to help me. Unfortunately I’ve been finding a lot of errors, everything from entries that duplicate data we already have, to formatting issues that cause problems downstream. As an example—this is not what the database really is–let’ say that I maintain the database for a grocery store’s online presence. I’ve found errors with the item itself (is it peanut butter or almond butter?), size of the item (18 oz vs 28 oz), and some of the keywords associated with the item (customers don’t want to search for peanut butter and get paper plates in their results).

    This all makes it harder for customers to find the correct items, or even cause them to order the wrong one. Some of the errors are things that I can query the database for to fix, but others are things that I only find when I stumble across them. I could pull all the records from the import, but don’t have a reliable way to search within that for some of the errors—I’d have to look at each one to ensure that the description matches the actual, physical item.

    My manager is getting ready to do another large import and I’d like to talk to them about some of the parameters they’re using for the import, in order to prevent the errors from occurring again. I tend to be either too blunt or too vague, and I sometimes have trouble with a matter of fact tone. For something like this, that’s caused me a lot of problems, I’m afraid that I’ll come across as frustrated—which I have been. And for the record, I’ve brought up to them that there are a lot of errors, and listed out some of the specific data issues, but not all of them, and we haven’t discussed ways to mitigate the issues from occurring again.

    It would probably help me to keep a professional tone if I had a checklist of the things I’d like them to keep in mind for the next import: “I found a large number of errors in data points a, b, c, x, y, and z in the first import; could we be more consistent about checking for the correct values for these in the next batch import?”

    Does “we” sound too weird there? Are there better ways to phrase it? Also, there are about 10 areas that are affected. Should I list them all out as in the example above, or would it be better to leave out that part of the sentence? “I found a large number of errors in the first import; could we be more consistent about importing the correct values next time? The errors were in data points a, b, c, x, y, & z.”

    Thanks for any suggestions you have!

    1. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      Are they mistakes made by your manager in generating the data? (It wasn’t clear to me, as you mentioned “parameters they’re using for the import”, but then errors like peanut butter having keywords indicating it is paper plates, so is that wrong in the ‘source’ data as well?)

      As for how to approach it with the manager, I think you can just be matter of fact. I would set aside a time for a discussion to “review the grocery store data import process and results prior to Large Load 2” and then go through the types of errors you found and your suggestions for how ‘we’ can correct them in future. (I think ‘we’ is fine, if it genuinely does mean ‘we collectively’ rather than ‘you’!)

      1. Anon for this question*

        It’s a little of both—some errors are in the source data, & some resulted from the import script created by my manager. Although I’m not really sure how the duplicate entries got in. I’d like to be able to spot-check the raw data before importing it, to cut down on these errors.

        And I had nothing to do with the import, so “we” really means “you”, unfortunately.

        1. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

          From what you’ve said it sounds like eyeballing the data before it gets fully imported is a good suggestion, and reasonable to propose in a discussion with the manager. I would split out things that are errors in the source data from errors in the extract ‘process’ in the discussion.

    2. Parquet*

      Man, it’s always a pain to be responsible for other people’s messy data…are you or your manager actually involved with the import process? You might be able to phrase it such that it comes off as more ‘I’m trying to save us both time down the road’, if that makes sense, and suggest having more checks in those affected areas. “I noticed some issues with the validity of the data in the last batch import, and I have some suggestions to make this go more smoothly”?

      What I’ve done in similar situations is write a quick doc that captures all of the errors (with suggestions for avoiding them in the future, if applicable). Then when I actually talk to whoever’s involved, I pull up one example of the most hard-to-avoid kind (so not something that’s super misformatted since that might be easy to find later) and mention “I’ve seen the same in XYZ other areas; overall about 15% of the data doesn’t have correct values. I summarized the issues here.”

      1. Anon for this question*

        Thanks for this, I don’t want to come across as blaming Manager for the errors so this is helpful.

    3. Anonymous Educator*

      I don’t think you should have to assign a protagonist to thise narrative (“you,” “we”). Just say that you noticed that the last import ended up creating some duplicate and incorrect values, and you’d like to know more about how you can help the data generation / import process. You aren’t saying your manager was responsible for the errors. You’re saying something went wrong, and you’d like to help so it doesn’t happen again.

    4. TL -*

      A better approach might be, “Hey boss, can we talk about the data import process before we do it again? There were a number of errors from last time and I’d like to understand if there’s an easy fix we could use when importing to save time.”

      2. Generic Name*

        THIS. At my company we blame the process and not the person. So instead of “you did this wrong” it would be “using this process/method produced the wrong results.”

      3. M. Albertine*

        This is exactly how I’d go about it. Name the problem, ask for help with deciding on a solution.

      4. Quinalla*

        Agreed, something like this is what I’d use, “Hey boss, before we import data again, can we go through the errors so we can catch as much as possible on this import? There were errors in the data itself such as X and others I’ve captured in this document that we need to address prior to or during import and there were errors likely from the import like Y and others I’ve listed here that we may need to tweak the import code.” Something along those lines adjusted for your workplace and then have a document that lists everything so if he’s going to do it again he can reference that as he’s writing code, etc. And if you already have ideas or solutions to some of it, bring it up and/or put it in the document.

        This would make it easier for me to not come off frustrated. Most of the info is in the document and you can pick the 2 examples (or however many makes sense) to be ones that are less frustrating or just practice talking about them.

    5. Tinker*

      The “we” in the example you give sounds a little passive-aggressive to me, if I’m understanding correcly that the overall structure is a critique of what your manager did. In that case, using “we” instead of “you” to refer to a thing that clearly is not being done by both people has a tone that’s a bit like a parent telling a child that we need to eat our peas when the person who is sitting in front of an uneaten pile of peas is definitely the child. Matter-of-fact tone here is to put the emphasis firmly on the problem and the solution — “what needs to be done and why” over “what someone did, which was wrong” — more so than being vague about who particularly is involved.

      The bit about having just mentioned that there were a lot of errors without discussing mitigation — it seems like maybe you were expecting your manager to make the connection between “there were errors” through “I made errors” to “I should do something different”, which seems reasonable because it’s probably pretty clear to you. If so, this is really failure prone — say for instance, your manager might be doing something that they don’t do frequently and they don’t have the familiarity you do that makes the error obvious, or they could be doing this thing in passing among a lot of other fragmented responsibilities, which can be common for managers. Clarity therefore pays in this case.

      If you’re looking for your manager to do the thing and have a specific thing to do, I’d probably phrase it more like “After the first import, I found that there were errors in a, b, c, x, y, z. It looks like they happen for thus-and-such reason, and it’s easier to correct that before the import by doing this thing rather than trying to correct that afterward.” Given that this is your manager and what you’re asking for seems to be to have them do a task in your domain, I’d then raise the option of you doing it — depending on context something like “is that something you can do, or do you want me to go through the data before you run the import” or “could you check in with me before you import so that I can validate the data”.

      Depending on norms in your organization, if what your manager did was unambiguously a well-known and common type of error — something like “breaking the build” in software — being non-blamingly direct about the error in the same way you would to anyone else may be an option. “It looks like with the last import (you didn’t X/ X didn’t happen / there was a lot of A, which happens when you don’t X before you Y) — could you double check that before the next import?” If the impact isn’t obvious in context, then clarify the impact: “When there’s a lot of A, it causes problem W later on.” Here, the way you keep blame out of the direct “you didn’t X” is by keeping the emphasis on the ‘X’ rather than the ‘you’ — the point is ultimately that X needs to happen.

      If it really is more of a “we” thing — a collaborative activity that your manager did one part of, more so than “they do the import, then you do something else” — and if the specific solution is less clear-cut, rather than “could we be more consistent”, I’d say “can we look at the process so we can keep from having so much A next time” and then really do that.

      Alternatively, if you can make a process improvement without needing your manager’s input (and your manager would likely follow the documentation if it existed) I’d go straight to that — “After last import, I noticed thus and such a problem. I think if we did X we wouldn’t have A, which means it’s a lot easier to W later on. I’ve written this thing on how to do it / I’ve made this tool for doing it / etc, and I put it in thus and such a location.” Then, depending on context, you can close with a solicitation for feedback “let me know if you have anything to add” and something on the spectrum of asking / telling to use the process — “can we” if genuinely “we”, “can you” if it’s the manager alone, “let’s” if taking a “telling” tone to your manager would be contextually appropriate.

    6. BRR*

      In my field, I would probably go with “it looks like some errors happened in the last import.” I’d probably try and blame the database/process to some degree. It’s usually a good scape goat.

    7. KoiFeeder*

      Ironically, the instacart database for me really has been bringing up paper plates with the peanut butter.

    8. Anon for this question*

      Thank you, everyone, for your suggestions. I brought it up today using language similar to “I’m concerned about all the data errors, can we chat about cutting down on them next time?” We’re meeting next week, and I have a doc ready with the most egregious errors listed.

      This whole process is new; up until now I’ve imported new data in small batches. This time, to continue the supermarket analogy, it’s as if we’re updating prices for almost 1/2 of the items in the store instead of the usual 5%. My normal workflow works well for weekly changes but isn’t adequate for such a large number of updates in the time period the headquarters office has given us (and that’s a whole other issue!)

      1. Anon Tech Worker*

        One other thing for the future is to first load the data into a pre-production version of your database (i.e. a test environment). Not sure if this is available to you or not, but I’d strongly recommend it for any major data work. Ideally, your boss would do the upload in test, then you’d run some pre-planned checks, you/she would make any needed fixes to the upload batch, then load it up for real.

  14. No Tribble At All*

    Next question: when do you mention you’re OK with moving because it would align with other (family) priorities? Spouse and I live in Northern Virginia. His job is in Maryland, but it’s been remote since he started because of Covid. I’m interviewing for a job in Maryland (~ 1 hr away with no traffic) which happens to be literally next door from his office. If I got it, we would move (no kids) because it’d be silly for both of us to have a terrible commute. Should I mention his location when I mention willingness to move? It strengthens the case, because we’re not just moving for me, but it also seems like too much information. I don’t want them to think I’m not taking the NoVa to MD commute seriously if I say “yeah I’d just move.”

    1. TeacherCurious*

      I can’t speak for others, but I just interviewed someone where it really wasn’t clear why they were open to this location, or that they’d seriously considered it. I don’t think it would have been TMI, it would have been helpful to hear.

      If you don’t want to mention your spouse, you can just say something like, “I was actually already looking into moving to this area.”

      1. No Tribble At All*

        Yeah, I don’t want to make it seem like I’m only interested because of proximity to spouse’s job. Thanks for the advice, all :)

    2. Snubble*

      My last job move was because I wanted to change locations and I found people didn’t seem to believe me that I wanted to move unless I gave them a reason they liked. “I want to move to City, because it’s a lower cost of living” got me side-eyes. “I have family in City” got satisfied nods, because it fit into a familiar narrative.
      I’d honestly be up-front and say “My partner works in the area and we’d like to be able to move here”.

    3. Ali G*

      In this area, it’s probably a non-issue. If you don’t want to chance it, you could put DC Metro Area as your location, and they will see that you are currently local, since you currently work in NOVA or DC (I assume). If they ask about your commute, you can bring it up as a good thing, since you would move so you would both have better commutes.
      I live in NOVA and used to commute to MD, so I know this drill. If someone applied to my previous company from here I wouldn’t bat an eye about it, unless they were on the outskirts of what I consider “Northern VA”.

      1. Weekend Please*

        I agree. My dad lives in NOVA and works in Maryland. It’s a long commute but not unusual for the area. It doesn’t hurt to mention your husband works next door so that they know you are fully aware of what the commute entails, but from my understanding, NOVA is considered “local”.

      2. Me*

        This. In the DMV It’s not remotely weird to be from WV, VA, PA, MD or DC and applying for a job in anyone of those states.

      3. Stephanie*

        Yeah, I used to live in that area. I feel like long commutes are so de facto there that a NoVA to MD commute wouldn’t raise that many eyebrows. If the job in is Baltimore or Baltimore suburbs, that might be questionable, but I had coworkers commuting to Old Town Alexandra from like Southern MD and WV. I wouldn’t bring it up, unless asked.

    4. Massive Dynamic*

      I did this for a previous job – spouse and I wanted to make a move an hour or so away and he landed a job there first and was commuting while I was searching. In the interview of the place I ended up working for, I did explain our family plan and that it was already in motion with spouse’s job. I only commuted as well for a few months before we bought a house out here.

    5. Usernames are hard*

      I agree with others that in the DC area it’s not a big deal living in VA and working in MD. But if you think they might be concerned I would do the casual “I’m actually looking to move to MD”.

  15. Ali G*

    I’m having a dilemma and hoping to get some insight from the you all.
    We recently had a member of our Development (non-profit) team leave for another position. No bad feels or anything, she had moved back to her parents during the pandemic and got an opportunity she liked better. Anyway, my sister is in the same field as this position, although she probably has a bit more experience than the previous person. My sister has been looking for a new job for over a year. She was very close to getting an offer and the COVID hit and it was put on hold. Probably a blessing in disguise as she might have been out a job altogether if she had taken it. The biggest reason she needs a new job is because her current org does not offer family health insurance. She can only get insurance for herself, so her kids get crappy health exchange insurance because that’s all she can afford (she is recently divorced and her ex is “self employed” so he’s no help there either). We have amazing benefits and god pay, so it maybe would be a good fit for her.
    Anyway, I am trying to decide if I should make her aware of this position. The hiring manager said he would consider remote staff, and since my sister already works from home in a different state, it would be OK.
    The thing is, I have no idea how my sis actually operates in a professional environment. The few times she’s asked my opinion on things, I’ve felt she was either overreacting, or just operating with her rose colored glasses. She has a habit of operating as things should be, rather than they are. For example, when she had her first kid, she decided she wanted to start working from home (This was years ago/different job) and so she put in the paperwork and did everything, but…never actually spoke to her boss about it. Then she was shocked!!!! that it wasn’t approved.
    Also, her skills overlap with an area that I currently run, so we’d likely be working together a little, though not a ton. Would this be weird? I have no idea!
    I’m torn between wanting to help my sister, and also I know she’s actually very good at her job, so she could be an asset to our org, but I worry about her quirks reflecting on me, and also how we would work together on a regular basis.
    I’m considering alerting her to the opening, but maybe not doing anything else. We have different last names, so it’s possible no one would notice until we got to the interview stage. Is that a good idea?
    I’m torn! Help!

    1. 404UsernameNotFound*

      I’d recommend exactly what you said – make her aware of the position, but don’t do anything else. I did the same thing with a relative – he didn’t get the job, but because a stronger candidate did. My relation to him never came up.

    2. WellRed*

      Well, from what you know of your sister, will “making her aware” of the posting be enough for her, or will she then expect you to put in a good word or pester you for hiring updates? (honestly, she sounds like the latter ,but I don’t know her).

    3. Anono-me*

      I would suggest consulting your HR handbook to see what your company policies are regarding hiring close relatives. If there is a policy against it, you may be worrying for nothing.

      Otherwise, I would tell my sister about the opening. I would also briefly mention to my direct supervisor that my sister might be applying for the opan position. I would do so in a FYI way, not a ‘rah rah hire my sister’ way.

      If people specifically you about her prior to her hiring, I think your above explanation that you know she has a good professional reputation, but have never actually worked with her and don’t know her professional side would be a good response.

      If she does decide to apply, it may be helpful to have a brief discussion about working together and boundaries so you both are on the same page.

      I’ve worked in a lot of family businesses and in environments that had lots of family members working together. What I appreciated most were the family members that interacted like friendly colleagues.

      Since you’re on the fence about this, I don’t think you have any huge objections right now to your sister working with you. So I think you should aldo consider how your currently unemployed sister would feel about finding out that you not telling her about this job opening and what that would do to your relationship.

    4. ten-four*

      I might be in the minority here but I wouldn’t make my sister aware of the job. There are a hundred ways for working with a family member to go badly, and basically one way for it to go well. Both jobs and family are too important to cross the streams and potentially blow them both up!

    5. BRR*

      There are a few things I’d do first to see if the decision is being made for me:
      1) I’d check for an HR policy. (I imagine relatives in a nonsupervisory role could be ok).
      2) Is your employer set up to have employees in that state? If they’re not, I would probably leave it.
      3) Will the position require face to face meetings (with coworkers or donors) once the pandemic is over? I imagine while there will be a lot more virtual interaction than before, some development work will go back to being in person.

      Then I’d consider if I wanted to work that close to my sibling. Both one-on-one and being seen by others as family (your answer might be no and that’s perfectly acceptable. I’d say no). So if you get past all that, I’d just let your sister know you have an opening. But since you can’t speak to her work, that would be the end of my involvement.

  16. Dalia*

    Hello! I would love advice from people who might have social anxiety and are not so great at asking critical questions during meetings, but have become better at this. I am trying to get better at it, but I get so nervous about what people are thinking, or what I’m going to say next, that I truly blank on critical questions that will help our program (or at least get more information on what we need to do next.) I have tried writing down things I want to know ahead of time, but then things come up in the moment and I get very nervous about the “right” thing to ask. Sometimes it will come later as an email like “I forgot to ask this but…” But I would love to ask more critical thinking questions in the moment. Is this something I can get better at?

    1. JPVaina*

      Are there “low-hanging” meetings, where you can practice chiming in? Can you offer to lead any smaller meetings (or parts of agendas)? That can help build some confidence and get you used to talking more in general. I also used to suffer from the same thing (I would feel like my heart was going to pound out of my chest while I was waiting to speak). Have you spoken to your manager about this being hard for you? I know that one of my first supervisors really helped me overcome this anxiety. She put a goal for me to ask one question in our weekly team meeting, and encouraged me to lead sessions of the agenda.

      I also tried to pay more attention to questions that other people asked. I started noticing that they were sillier than I had initially imagined, and it helped me be like “oh, ok. Sometimes people just sound silly, so if I sound silly, that’s normal.”

      1. Dalia*

        Yes! I’m already leading some meetings, but I swear to bob, I am just blanking on asking questions, and then my manager pipes up and is like “Dalia, let’s also ask about X.” And I’m like DUH X, WHY DIDN’T I THINK OF X! I have spoke to my manager about it, but her solution is just to keep practicing, it’s just taking me longer to get to her level. It doesn’t help that she’s about to transition out of her role and I’ll be on my own for a while, so I won’t have anyone chiming in if I forget to ask a good question.

        And that’s helpful about paying attention to the questions people ask! In my mind, they sound way more intelligent than me. I’ve started prefacing some of my questions with “Sorry if this has already been considered but…” and am wondering if there’s a more confident way of asking questions, while also acknowledging that I might not get it right…

        1. pancakes*

          I don’t think it’s necessary to acknowledge that you might not be right every time you ask a question. Everyone, no matter how professional or knowledgeable or well-prepared, occasionally makes a mistake, and people who don’t qualify their statements with apologies aren’t trying to signify that they think of themselves as perfect. That said, if you have some reason to believe a particular question has been addressed in the past, I don’t see a downside to looking into the matter before raising it again.

          1. Stephanie*

            Yeah, don’t do that! I work for a car company and I was doing project management of variants of a popular vehicle and confused Variant A and B (and got a confused email back from a contact when I asked about a deadline for the wrong vehicle). I apologized to my boss ad he just laughed like “we have so many variations of that vehicle…everyone’s done that.”

        2. Reba*

          I would definitely scrub out the “sorry!” Whether it has been considered by others or not, you have standing to ask about it. Even if they did, someone may actually welcome the chance to explain their thinking about some issue!

          If you need an on-ramp to your question, you could try “I’m thinking out loud here, what about…”

          But as pancakes said, you don’t need to hedge your questions or downplay your own input! (the point of questions is that you don’t know everything…)

          Good luck! It’s hard to learn to be assertive with questions while also running meetings.

    2. Betty*

      Me! I almost never spoke up in meetings and when I had to, m face would turn bright red. I wasn’t consciously worrying about what people would think of me, but my anxiety would just make my mind blank so I couldn’t think of what to ask or say. It was having a serious impact on me at work. I started a low dose of Zoloft and it has been a really game changer. My mind is no longer totally blank during meetings when I should be asking critical questions and sharing info.

      1. Daphne (UK)*

        Also chiming in with how Zoloft has helped me in the past. It was also a low dose and it took a few months to work, but was like a light switch in certain situations at work where I would just shy away from or take forever to do because I was putting off facing them!

    3. Dave*

      I would say write down your question.
      It also might be helpful to join some community something committee where you can practice and get comfortable talking in meetings in a much lower stake capacity.

    4. Daphne (UK)*

      Just want to say that I’m interested in advice for this too, because I struggle with the same thing!

      I think that noting down potentials questions ahead of time is great, so maybe you have to really push yourself to ask them when the time comes.

      At the end of your meetings, or before moving on to the next topic, does anyone (managers etc) ask “is that everything?” which could give you a chance to pipe up and say “sorry, I have a couple of questions/suggestions”.

    5. Double A*

      For me, I am always impressed when people ask thoughtful questions, or ask about an angle that other people aren’t considering. This is a skill that comes easily to me, so I don’t really have advice about how to get better at it. But it sounds like part of what’s stopping you isn’t that you don’t have the questions, but that you’re afraid of what other people are thinking. So I’m letting you know what at least some other people are thinking, especially regular contributors, is actually, “I’m sure other people here have questions and good ideas, so why is no one saying anything?”

      Maybe if you reframe it to realize that people are grateful and looking for those type of questions (at least in a healthy work environment), it could be easier.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      Not sure if this helps.
      For me, I would spend so much brain space wondering what others were thinking that I lost some of the content of what was being said.

      Work on picturing the things they are talking about. Using a stupid example, let’s say the team decides to buy and plant a tree. What parts am I good at here? Well, I can contribute to both parts.

      Okay so the first thing to do is decide what type of tree the group would like. What is the group doing, are they struggling with this or do they have ideas? What thoughts do I have to offer? Next. Where will we buy the tree from? Okay i know a couple good places, how is the group doing with this part of the discussion? Can I contribute anything? So they have a tree and a store. Let’s say they decide on delivery, rather than picking it up. Now it needs to be planted. I can help plant. Do they need volunteers? Can I bring something into this planting project that makes it easier some how?

      Notice I never once said to myself, “I think Sally doesn’t want me on this project!” or “I know Bob will be mad if we go to the store of MY choice.”

      Stick with facts- force yourself to think about factual matters. It takes time and it takes repetition to re-aim that focus. The good part is that you can work on the switch quietly, no one has to know that you are resetting your focus. This can work into a cool thing. Because at some point you may notice the group struggling with something that is actually very easy for YOU. And you catch yourself chiming right in with, “Oh when that happens to me, I do X and it clears the problem right up!” And the group says, “Wow, why didn’t I think of that!”, etc. Then you have had a successful contribution under your belt. Keep going you will have more successes as you go along.

    7. tray table upright*

      I’m also not at my best “in the moment” — I need time to think things over. Are you getting enough material in advance of meetings so that you can digest the info beforehand? If not, can you ask for it? I find that very helpful personally. I’d also say not to beat yourself up too much! I find that the more familiar I am with the material, the better I can be at spotting those critical questions. It makes sense in your case that your boss is seeing those questions more easily. And finally, you might want to consider your state of mind in meetings. You may need to focus on shifting your brain from a more passive, participatory state to a more inquisitive, curious state. You can practice this at home by doing things like watching informational videos like Ted talks or lectures and trying to come up with questions you’d ask if you were in the audience. Good luck!

    8. Becky*

      Do you know what topics will be covered or what the general content of the meeting will be prior to the meeting? Review what you know and write down questions before hand (sounds like you are already doing this to an extent).
      If you don’t know enough prior to the meeting or you think of/realize something during the meeting then while other people are speaking/presenting, jot down notes of what they are saying and any questions or concerns or consequences you think of that ought to be brought up. Hopefully this can help distract you from your anxiety and focus more on the pertinent question and not the delivery.

    10. Quinalla*

      Like others, I’m much better at coming up with good questions after I’ve had time to process. There is nothing wrong with that! However, with more experience at your job, you will know better what questions to ask.

      What may help for now is making a sort of checklist of info you need on projects/whatever and check off or indicate what option as the meetings goes on. Then it may be easier to see what missing information is left to ask about.

  17. TeacherCurious*

    Hello Canadian teachers! I am an American teacher, pondering a move to Canada with my Canadian spouse. I’d like to more about getting into teaching in Canada. (My credentials can be certified and I’d be authorized to work, so this is more about, just, how do you get a job?)

    It seems really…hard in Canada. Like you spend years and years, starting as a sub and taking like 10 years to get full-time. Is there any way to make this easier? What about private schools? Semi-rural districts? The English districts in Quebec? What should I know?

    Thank you! (P.S. Ottawa area if it helps.)

    2. Asenath*

      I’m in a different province and have been out of the K-12 system for years, but certainly in our city would-be teachers tend to have to start as a substitute for years, with no guarantee that they will eventually work their way into full time permanent work. There is just that much competition for not so many jobs. I knew someone who did that for years in a rural area without ever getting a permanent job – rural depopulation, so schools were getting smaller, and even there there was competition. In spite of rural depopulation, it’s often easier to get a position in a rural area than an urban one, although of course everyone who is an unemployed teacher in an urban area knows this. Still, many of them don’t want the commute from urban to rural, or the move to a more isolated area. Teachers with certain specializations find it a little easier – I don’t have current figures, but education for children with various kinds of special needs comes to mind, and in more rural areas, there may be jobs in science or math since those qualifications are less common than, say, English. French teachers are also in demand, especially for immersion classes, but I expect there are plenty of those in the Ottawa area. Sorry, but I expect you will have a challenge finding something. Check out the official board/district websites for jobs, and if you’re interested in a private school, check them out separately. There aren’t a whole lot of private schools around; the local ones are said to have high standards and to be good places to work, so, more competition, I’d suspect.

    4. Oaktree*

      I tried to leave this comment before, but it didn’t post, possibly because I tried to give you a link to more information.

      Anyway, to reiterate: there was a glut of teachers in Ontario for years, but now there’s a shortage. Google the headline “Ontario teacher shortage grows dramatically”; there should be a result from Canadian HR Reporter.

      1. TeacherCurious*

        Thanks, I found the article! It seems Ontario teachers’ employment statistics have improved lately, but I wonder if they’re actually at full employment, or just more-employed as subs.

    5. Middle School Teacher*

      It depends where you are and what you teach. I got hired right out of university and have been teaching full-time ever since. Apply to education is a good website to check for job postings. Some boards post on indeed, and some mostly post on their own website. Good luck!

    6. Sandi*

      Availability of jobs is very regional, as I think is also the case in the US. It also varies by topic, so someone who can teach math and science is likely to be hired immediately. My info isn’t the most recent, but in my experience high school teachers are more in demand than elementary. All the teachers I know are now experienced, but when they started they mentioned that it took about 3 years of substituting in order to get the seniority to be offered a regular classroom position. Although I do know one young teacher who just qualified to teach english and drama, and was offered a job almost immediately, but that was a city in the maritimes.

      Ontario has a backward system of two school boards, one catholic, so look at both.

      1. Mephyle*

        Ottawa actually has four public school boards: English, English Catholic, French, and French Catholic.

    7. Humble Schoolmarm*

      Canadian teacher, but not in Ontario and that does make a difference as education is run provincially.
      1- Good news: The 10+ years subbing was vanishing quickly before the pandemic. It was really born out of the great recession so it’s hard to know what’s coming. I can see demand going either way depending on how long it takes for people to feel good about crowded rooms with open windows…in Canada…in January as the sole ventilation source.
      2- Bad news: My BEd class of 2009 called high school English and Social Studies the combination of doom because it was really common and the demand was low.
      And now for advice
      – Getting a masters in resource, or other support teacher qualification is much more in demand and likely to get hired faster.
      – The best first step is trying to get a term teaching position. Due to our year-18 month maternity leaves, term jobs are fairly abundant and have all the benefits of a permanent job minus the job security. Most school boards also require some term teaching before you qualify for a permanent opening.
      – While subbing is not fun, subs are pretty hard to come by in rural areas (Ottawa isn’t rural by any stretch, though) so it isn’t hard to become the go-to sub and get fairly regular work. Subs who have done well in these situations are often given a leg up, or a really good reference, for term jobs.
      – Be as flexible in the types of jobs you apply for as HR will allow. A 100% high school history teaching position is rare and a lot of tenured teachers in the district will apply (and seniority usually rules these applications). If you apply for a weird grab bag posting (say low level English, economics and global history) you will probably have less competition.
      – Not sure about the Ontario curriculum, but where I am, History jobs are really Canadian History focussed. It’s probably worth it to start doing some reading about Canadian History if you haven’t already. Understanding Canada’s history with Indigenous peoples and the Truth and Reconciliation process has a growing importance in our schools and is worth studying. Canada absolutely has a lot of bad stuff with historic and current racism, but it doesn’t quite come across the same here as it does in the US. Again, starting to check out Canadian Treaty Education and anti-racism sources now will help you with interviewing and with actual teaching.
      – If you have a secondary licence, you will probably also be qualified to teach jr high (7, 8 and 9, usually). These are also usually less in demand.
      – Private schools are fine, but the pay is far less and I haven’t seen a lot of teachers transition between the two systems if you’d like to go public later (higher pay, better benefits in the public but I think higher stress too).
      – Due to Quebec’s complicated language politics, the provincial government isn’t a huge supporter of the English districts and Gatineau has a high number of very bilingual people who could work in either district. I’m not sure that the competition will be any less stiff in Quebec, particularly near the Ontario border.

  18. Stuckinacrazyjob*

    I have a hard time coming up with something positive that has happened to me in work meetings. I’m a horrible liar and my face when trying to think of some bullshit to say looks “mad”. I eventually stammered something out about Starbucks. How do I answer dumb questions like this first thing in the morning? ( although one girl was like I can go to work every day. Now THAT’S lying)

    1. Just a PM*

      My go-to is “I was craving X for dinner last night and treated myself.” X is usually a restaurant or cuisine. Thai, Cheesecake Factory, pizza, steak. Doesn’t matter if I did or that’s my plan for the weekend. Who’s going to know the difference?

      1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

        Once I was like ” uh… I ate a lot of food” which was lame. I always feel my answers are really dumb compared to everyone else’s

        1. PollyQ*

          It’s a really dumb question, especially in a business environment. But if you know you’re going to be hit with it, it’s probably worth picking something out ahead of time.

    2. Bear Shark*

      Do you have to come up with something positive on a regular basis? I’d come up with a list that you can rotate through that are bland but positive and vague enough they aren’t lies even if they aren’t recent. That way you can have prepared lines that you don’t have to think about.
      “I got a great parking spot when I had to stop at the store, even though it was busy”
      “The line was really short when I had to go in to the Post Office”
      “My neighbor’s kid shoveled my walk for me”
      “I got to play with a cute puppy at the park”
      “(Seasonal flavor) is back at Starbucks”
      ” I got to try the new (food item) at (restaurant) and it was really good”

      1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

        Yea I’ll make up some normie friendly BS. The big problem is I don’t really do anything nowadays so I don’t have a large pool of experiences to pull from. I guess I could research what normies are doing now.

        1. Bear Shark*

          It doesn’t have to be recent or 100% truthful or anything you actually care about. You just have to give a socially passable statement while keeping your face socially acceptable.

        2. Roy G. Biv*

          This one works in my car-culture obsessed Midwestern city: I hit green lights all the way in to work today. Who knew the drive could be so short?

      2. Annie Moose*

        Yeah, if this is a new thing in your early morning meetings, then I’d suggest thinking of something on the way to work or jotting down a list that you can add to when something occurs to you. Honestly, I think you’re overthinking this! I doubt it’s intended to be a deep soul-bearing question (if it is, yikes ;)), so any quick positive thing will do.

    3. Alison*

      Why do you even have to do this in a work meeting? I’d be making a stink face just because of the requirement.

      1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

        I don’t even know. It probably improves the mood of neurotypicals, but Im like it’s cold, I can’t go anywhere good because of COVID and anything I do that is actually good is really niche – like video games nobody has heard of or old ass anime. Normies, an I right?

        1. Weekend Please*

          Not really. Being neurotypical does not make that question any less obnoxious. I think this falls under the category of “toxic positivity.”

          1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

            Yea my boss is probably trying to get us to focus on the positives or have gratitude or whatever but its like, ugh. Nobody cares.

        2. ThatGirl*

          Us “normies” can’t help that we’re neurotypical anymore than you can help being neurodivergent.

          Why not say “I re-played a favorite video game” or “I watched a new series” or something like that? Those are all things “normies” do.

          1. bluephone*

            Yeah, pretty sure most normies (WTF even is that) are fed up with COVID too and are having trouble thinking of positive stuff to share. So step 1 might be to stop framing this honestly-not-unusual, not-that-egregious work activity as “my special, unique snowflake self vs. all those normies UGH lol.”
            There’s nothing wrong with being neurodivergent but it doesn’t give people free reign to be jerks 24/7 (or like, ever).

            1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

              It’s just so much easier for folks to make up stuff and make faces that they might not think about how it’s difficult or uncomfortable for someone else. It’s not job interview level bullshit- that’s so intense everyone has trouble but it is a stumbling block

              1. Eirene*

                Or it could be that there’s so much horrible stuff happening right now that perhaps the people in charge of meetings thought that attendees might like to hear something nice for a change. Granted, it’s a clumsy way of injecting some positivity into things, but I’m 99% certain that this was not conceived of with ill intentions toward you personally. So from one neurodivergent person to another, this “normie” stuff isn’t cute, and your neurotypical coworkers are most assuredly picking up on your overt hostility toward them.

                1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

                  I know she’s not trying to be cruel or mean . I’m not “hostile ” towards neurotypicals I put on a good face mostly, I chat , but they enjoy different things than me socially and at work. Im just glad she’s not talking about how we all love Jesus.

                2. Julie*

                  You’re pretty derogatory towards neurotypical people here.
                  When I’m are put off by another person it’s not because they might be neuroatypical, it’s because they’re dripping with contempt for anyone they don’t relate to.

              2. Stephanie*

                Sure…but this is also part of working with people. It might be good to figure out how to work through this in the same way you’d improve a more technical skill like programming.

              3. Esmeralda*

                You misunderstand what it is like to be neurotypical.

                It is not that easy for many of us to make stuff up and it is not that easy for many of us to make nice faces. I can do it but I’ve been practicing for about 50 years — I’m neurotypical but it took YEARS before I could control sadness/anger/annoyance on my face. And that’s because I worked at it. And I still fail at it when I’m tired or over stressed. Thank god for WFH and turning off the camera.

                I’m sorry you’re having a terrible year. Pick like three or four bland things you can say and practice them. Also, in this Plague Year it is ok to say (as one of your three or four things): “Meh, it’s tough, you know?” or “Ugh, today I can’t even.” Other possibilities: “Oh you know, keeping on keeping on!” “Same old same old” “Can’t complain too much but I probably will” (for a tiny bit of humor).

          2. Stuckinacrazyjob*

            Yea my mind goes blank. I didn’t remember it was the release date of an awesome video game. Im just like uuuuhhhh…

          3. Viette*

            Yeah. Every commenter on this site reliably rips into every boss who’s ever made a LW do something like this. I don’t know if the OP here thinks that every commenter on AAM must be neurodivergent, but this is a universally unpopular act.

            “It probably improves the mood of neurotypicals” very much no thank you, OP, for assuming that all neurotypicals are as obnoxious and annoying as whatever boss is making this happen. It’s just a stupid thing at your job, and a stupid thing at a lot of people’s jobs if the letters on here are anything to go by.

              1. ThatGirl*

                I say this as kindly as possible, but you being neurodivergent doesn’t mean you’re unique. Lots of people across the spectrum of humanity like anime and niche video games and hate Mondays and dumb “morale boosting” questions.

        3. pancakes*

          Your answer doesn’t have to name a particular game or anime or whatnot. “I got a new game I’m really enjoying” or “I caught up on movies I’d been meaning to see” are generally sufficient answers to this sort of thing. If people ask for more details, it’s generally fine to name something that not everyone will be familiar with, so long as it’s not sex-centric or otherwise inappropriate for work. “Neurotypical” doesn’t signify “only interested in mass market culture,” so don’t feel you have to make up an entirely new persona for yourself to blend in at meetings.

          1. Lunch Ghost*

            +1. It looks like part of the problem is you’re trying to give a ‘right/acceptable/normal’ answer, but if this is genuinely supposed to be a casual icebreaker, no one should be seriously judging your answer. I have pretty much no interest in car racing or fancy watches or combat video games, but if someone said “My favorite driver won their race” or “I bought this new fancy watch” or “I’m really enjoying the new Call of Halos,” well, good for them.

        4. PollyQ*

          I doubt it improves anyone’s mood, although I’ve got anxiety/depression, so I can’t speak for neurotypicals either. But I think saying you’ve been enjoying video game [X] or anime [Y] are both fine answers. Even if no one’s familiar with the specific property, those are both fairly mainstream hobbies nowadays.

        5. Mirabel*

          What a weird thing to say. I’m neurodivergent and I don’t particularly mind these things. Sometimes they’re fun. It doesn’t have to be “Us vs. normies”, for pete’s sake.

          I’ve had luck with stating that nothing bad or dramatic happened, therefore I count that as a positive. At my job, a week with no hiccups or issues IS a good thing. No news is good news, type of thing. Try that?

        6. BRR*

          So I think the exercise is dumb but you’re perfectly fine naming video games or anime. I imagine whoever is mandating this has a goal of just trying to put positivity out there. So it doesn’t have to be something others enjoy. Or if you can’t make up a lie on the spot, can you make up a lie ahead of time?

          1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

            Yea I’ll have to write a list of neutral things to say so I don’t get mixed up again

        7. anon here*

          You might be surprised at who has heard of a video game or some old anime! Do I “look like” a person who would know Ranma 1/2? No. Did I read all of it that existed in high school? Yes.

          1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

            Man I used to love Ranma. It’s just that you never know who is old fashioned about that stuff. I do a lot of editing at work like nodding and smiling whenever anyone busts out about Jesus or sororities or sports and kinda mumble something that sounds nice

            1. Esmeralda*

              My neurotypical self also just nods and smiles when Jesus, sororities, and (most) sports are the topic.

              You can turn your lack of knowledge/interest around in a way that makes people think you are nice, a good listener, etc: “I don’t know anything at all about jai alai! What do you like about it, Joe Bob?” “My college didn’t have sororities, so I’m clueless about greeks — do you keep up with the people you met in your sorority, Peggy Sue?” (I stay away from Jesus talk though, because religion is a minefield–also I feel I am All Right With God/Your Favorite Deity and don’t want to argue about it; that’s the right place for “that sounds nice” or “that’s cool”)

        8. Stephanie*

          If it helps, just think of it as a rule you need to follow for work. It’s goofy, but the rules of the job say you need to do it just like you need to send out the TPS reports by 4 pm daily. It’s annoying, but in the grand scheme of things that are annoying at work, it’s minor. Maybe just have a list of stock answers prepared like “Oh, I tried a new coffee flavor today.”

        10. Rainbow*

          Can you expand on this a bit more? I’m reading it as super hostile to all “normal” people and that’s surely not what you’re saying but I think I’m missing the nuance. What do you mean exactly?

    4. Rachel in NYC*

      I’m infamous in my group for coming up with something. (my boss also doesn’t make everyone say something because he knows not everyone will feel they have a positive.) But it’ll be things like stuff I saw on a walk to (this week) my BIL is about to changes military bases which means he can’t be sent to DC.

      That’s my family’s happy thing this January. (and part of December, since it meant he wasn’t getting sent for the inauguration. and so many guys in his job were being sent.)

    5. RagingADHD*

      If you can’t go big, go small.

      I have favorite pens that are hard to find, but when I do it makes my week. I noticed daffodils starting to poke up yesterday. Once I heard a cool story on NPR about how bees detect electric charges to tell which flowers have been recently pollinated. Today I found my favorite fuzzy socks.

      It can be anything.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      “I had a wonderful dream. I dreamed I did not have to answer this question any more!”

      I am sorry you are going through this. I recommend shamelessly borrowing from the lives of people in your personal life. “My neighbor got a pup! It’s so cute.” OR “My niece got an A on her test. I am so proud.” You can also go with something weather related: “I didn’t lose power last night.” OR “We got less snow than expected.”

      I’d even go as far as planning what you will say before you go to bed. This type of thing can keep me awake for an hour laying in bed. Grab on to something/anything say that and be done with it. Probably most of the people in your group feel the same as you do.

    7. KoiFeeder*

      With the face thing, I just blame it on post-wisdom tooth nerve damage. “Oh, is my face doing the thing again? Yeah, when my wisdom teeth came out there was some nerve damage, I can never tell if the tingling means it’s working or not working.”

      It’s actually the autism, and not nerve damage, but I really did get nerve damage from the surgery and people don’t get mad about that as severely/often as they do about autism.

      1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

        That’s a good one! My face is always weird when I’m not charged up for social and its so hard to explain that I need to actively think about my face and how its looking. Although masks now are good.

        1. KoiFeeder*

          Masks are my freaking hero. I go out in a mask and sunglasses and suddenly strangers don’t get pissed off at me for my face! I’m never taking mine off again.

    8. Generic Name*

      During a meeting when a coworker asked how our holiday break went I said that I enjoyed eating a lot of cheese. :)

    9. Zephy*

      I had a job where we started every morning with this kind of thing, sharing a positive thought. “I woke up this morning” is a perfectly cromulent and reasonable contribution, if you have to share something. And, if there is something you are genuinely excited about – maybe you got good news from family, maybe there’s something going on this weekend you’ve been looking forward to, or maybe you just packed a really tasty lunch and can’t wait to eat it – it’s okay to share that, too. You don’t need to go into detail. “My sister shared some good news last night, it was nice to talk to her.” “I have tickets to a virtual comedy show on Saturday night that I’m looking forward to.” “I’ve got homemade chicken soup for lunch today that’s gonna be DELICIOUS! Can’t wait for 12:30!” Nobody cares about any of that, though, you say. That’s fine, the point isn’t to be the Most Interesting Man in the World or to brag about what a cool and interesting life and hobbies you have. The point is to start your day by thinking of something that makes you smile. By sharing it aloud, you can share that feeling with others – they’ll be happy for you, and it might make them in turn think of something that makes them smile. There’s no harm in putting a little bit of joy into the world at the beginning of a workday.

      1. Zephy*

        Also, just to add: I am also neurodivergent. I also like thinking about things that bring me joy, because it feels good. I like the joyful mirroring response I get from other people when I share those things. And I understand that other people like it when I express joy in response to them sharing their own joyful things. You can learn how to emotions even with an autistic brain.

        1. Generic Name*

          I love learning about people’s different perspectives. My son is autistic too, and he’s shared some really neat insights about himself and other people. Thank you for sharing!

      2. Stuckinacrazyjob*

        You seem to genuinely enjoy things! I’m mostly putting on although I do guess that Starbucks WAS enjoyable. Not to the intensity of ” joy” but it was OK.

        1. Generic Name*

          Maybe try not to think of it as “joy”. Maybe if you can share something that made you smile. I find there are tons of those little moments in my daily life. Something as simple at smiling when I pat my dog’s head. If a person struggles to find anything to smile about at all, maybe something medical/mental health wise is up that might be worth checking out.

      3. Generic Name*

        I like this perspective a lot, especially if one is feeling that this question is invasive.

    10. Middle School Teacher*

      You’re calling your coworker a liar for being happy she has a job to come to? I’m ecstatic I still have a job. A lot of us really like our jobs, you know. You might want to dial it back a bit.

  19. Orange Crushed*

    I wrote in a few weeks ago that my boss accused me of moving chairs around in our office. Well, it was the end of the day and she was telling a story of how when she started in the position, each department had their own Teapot System and instead of being the same, it was all different. I made a gasp because we have so many different departments and locations that I couldn’t imagine that.

    My boss stopped talking, looked directly at me and said, “Is something funny? Why are you laughing?”

    I looked up from my cubicle and said that no, I wasn’t laughing. I just couldn’t believe how differently things operated. Later on I asked my coworker if he thought that I was laughing and he said no, that he didn’t even hear me. He wasn’t sure why my boss would say that.

    Now I’m afraid to say or do anything. I feel like I’m walking on eggshells. To make matters worse, her admin assistant seems to have it out for me- (admin and boss basically run the dept.) I’ve been accused of ridiculous things and she’s always running to the boss over stuff.

    Any tips or suggestions on how to survive a place like this until I can find a new job and leave?

    1. Firecat*

      Treat your boss like an alien you are observing. Detach yourself as much as possible. Interesting the Bossus Snarkus seems to purposfully create misunderstandings as an attempt at dominance. etc…

      1. Joan Rivers*

        But LW gave boss the chance to misconstrue — she made some kind of noise. People don’t always realize that they may be setting up someone who may have an attitude and may WANT to misconstrue.

        LW doesn’t have to “gasp” — she can listen calmly. If boss and asst. actually do have it in for her, she can just not hand them any ammunition. It requires self-control. She may or may not be giving them “body language” or “sounds” that convey there’s tension between them.

        A lot of communication is non-verbal and we read it even if we don’t realize we are. We look at a facial expression or hear a “gasp” and interpret it, correctly or not.

        1. sequined histories*

          I mean, on the one hand, sure, she can strive to be as blandly neutral as possible and maybe that would help.

          On the other hand, if someone in authority is relentlessly seeking a justification for reacting negatively to an employee, it’s not the employee’s fault for making sounds and having a body, and it might not be helpful to invest too much energy in believing that supreme self-control will neutralize this reactivity and (seeming) animosity.

          A calm demeanor and an internal emotional detachment from the lack same in other people are probably good ideas. If common sense and experience in other contexts suggests you’re not the problem though—like, for example, if your involuntary gasping has never offended anyone before—it’s probably better not to exhaust yourself in a hyper vigilant effort to monitor your every breath. Save that energy for doing your job and maybe finding a new one.

        2. Not A Manager*

          People who want to pick a fight will pick a fight. OP didn’t do anything with the office chairs, IIRC, but there was a big kerfuffle about it anyway. “Don’t be human” isn’t really very actionable advice, and if OP *were* able to control all of her human facial expressions, sounds, and responses then her boss would probably accuse her of being mean or angry or sulking.

          This is a game OP can’t win.

          My advice is like others’. Detach, try not to be reactive when these things do occur, and keep looking for a new job. Your boss sounds horrible.

          1. pancakes*

            I agree the boss sounds pretty horrible, but don’t at all agree that “try not to audibly react to your boss” is equivalent to “don’t be human.” Regulating one’s own emotions is a pretty standard expectation of most professionals, and good practice in many situations.

            1. sequined histories*

              Self-control is an important part of adulthood, for sure. The ability to regulate the subjective experience and outward manifestations of our emotions is invaluable. Obviously, losing control of yourself at work is a bad in multiple ways.

              However.

              I think if someone in authority is giving an underling a hard time for very subtle (or even entirely imaginary) micro expressions and behaviors, it’s actually a bad idea to suggest that the answer is for subordinate person to police the tiniest nuances of breath and behavior ever more relentlessly.

              If the OP’s description is accurate, it sounds like she’s being bullied. I’m not suggesting she should make a scene or behave incautiously. Certainly not. But, in my experience, bullies actually feed on the sense that their victims are cowed, intimidated, and consumed with self-doubt.

              Operating on the premise that other people’s behavior will improve if you’re just super, super, super careful of your own usually doesn’t work out to well.

              1. pancakes*

                Good point, and I don’t disagree. I can’t tell from the comment whether the gasp was really an audible gasp or the boss over-reacting to (maybe?) an unidentifiable sound, or something else, though. The third party coworker not hearing laughter doesn’t necessarily mean anything, depending on where they were in relation to OP and boss, and on whether they’re just trying to stay out of any conflict between others.

          2. Orange Crushed*

            “if OP *were* able to control all of her human facial expressions, sounds, and responses then her boss would probably accuse her of being mean or angry or sulking.”

            THIS. I’m quiet and the Admin Assistant (AA) thought that I was mad at her. I went up to go get coffee and went to the bathroom and AA was upset because I was gone “too long”. (A whopping 7 minutes. My job doesn’t require me to be chained at my desk, but apparently AA thinks I should be.) I went to go talk to my Assistant Manager and AA accused me of talking about her. It’s nuts! I’m finally getting feedback from other departments about AA and some of them have had problems with her, so I’m glad that I’m not the only one!

        3. Observer*

          OK. So what is Orange Crshed supposed to do? Turn into a robot? Someone who turns a gasp – a one so quiet that not everyone even heard it – into WHY ARE YOU LAUGHING AT ME will find something to pick on no matter how the OP behaves. If they are too bland “why are you not paying attention?!” etc.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Be transparent and be sincere in all you say and do.

      I worked in a place where someone would report me for almost anything. (It was a large group of people and there was a culture of whining. Everyone reported everyone, yeah, it was chaos.) The rebuttal to that is cross all your i’s and dot all your t’s. Make sure everything is on the up-and-up. This can mean labeling things, tracking things and so on. Make your work as neat as a pin.

      Yeah, I worked this way. And the reason is because this did not hurt me. Our work should be neat and our actions should be transparent. And we can always beef up something we are doing. Let them sharpen you. Let them make you into an even better employee for your next employer.
      I even went as far as watching what I was saying, if I could not say a certain thing to everyone there, then I could not say it, period.
      This did work. And I think somehow it did make me a better employee….for the next employer.

      Keep in the back of your mind that when people make ridiculous accusations against us, that is because they are doing that very thing themselves. So AA is actually telling you A LOT about what she is doing.

    3. Caterpie*

      I had a bit of a similar situation in my work-study position in undergrad. My advice: if she’s accusing you of anything, even if its really mild and/or strange, document, document, document. Even if its just your written account, you will have something recorded if your boss escalates things.

      My situation was a little different because I was a student, but I understand the feeling of being accused by a boss when you didn’t do it, and how powerless it makes you feel. My supervisor was in her mid 50s and I was about 19 or 20. Our relationship started out really nicely, she would share a lot of information about herself and home country and seemed to be very generous and open.

      However, she later started accusing me of doing things I didn’t do, such as stealing printer paper and lying on my timesheet. I started taking photos of myself with the clock when I arrived and left, and wrote down accounts of some of her other accusations. When I had to ask the work-study office for a new position after I heard her say some disturbing things on a 2 hour personal call during work hours, it was really easy to switch my assignment because I had everything documented and ready to hand over. They quit placing students with her, so it helped out future students as well.

      I hope you get out of this situation soon! Your boss and the admin sound awful, and it might be worthwhile to read up on the topic of gaslighting. I’m only just learning about it so I’m not sure if its 100% what is going on, but I wish I had known more about it when I was dealing with my undergrad situation.

  20. Pinkie Pie*

    Acoustic management question. My husband is currently sitting at the opposite end of open floor plan from where my two kids are homeschooled. Both kids and mother have adhd. Is there a way anyway to carve a him a quite area?

    1. Just a PM*

      Could you get room dividers to block off your husband’s space? It probably won’t help with most of the noise, but it might help minimize distractions if he/you aren’t visible to each other. By him not being able to see you, it could be easier for him to tune your conversations and activities out as background noise.

      Other than that, could he commandeer a desk in your bedroom? Many of my coworkers have done this. They work in their bedroom while their partner and kids are homeschooling elsewhere in their house/apartment.

      1. Anono-me*

        If you can do the room dividers, if you throw a comforter or blanket over it, it will help to absorb/muffle the sound

        1. Firecat*

          Yes yes and more yes to blankets. However you really have to engineer a room to be quite. Our bedroom was loud, and we had basically put out bed in an area where all the noise from the roads/businesses would funnel straight to our bed. Even though it was the most aesthetically logical place to put it.

          I recommend thinking about how you might be able to move the desk. can you flip the desk so his back to is to the wall and put a desk divder with books on top (books are amazing at muffling sound)? It may look weird but these sorts of things make a huge difference in sound.

          For our bedroom we moved our bed 4 ft in front of the door. The headboard now faces the door and we draped blankets over the headboard. We lined the walls and windows with bookshelves and quilts. The room is so much quieter now it’s crazy.

    2. New Mom*

      I’ll assume that there is not a different space that he can go to. So if he has to stay in the same room, I’d recommend:
      Noise-canceling headphones
      Partition/divider that can be moved away at night
      Noise-machine that he can put in his area to limit background noise during meetings
      Set quiet times (if possible)

  21. Just a PM*

    It is performance review time at my agency and I am procrastinating my self-assessment.

    Does anyone else hate writing self-assessments? How do you procrastinate your performance review inputs? I cleaned my home office and organized my department’s file archives. Then I went on YouTube and pulled up my history to make a list of all the tutorials and webinars I watched for my work even though our performance reviews don’t consider professional development. Now I am on AAM.

    1. Quest*

      This is not immediately actionable advice — I’m sorry! — but will help for next year. I learned from a former manager and mentor to keep a running list of all my accomplishments, seminars attended, etc through the year. When the time comes to do a self-assessment, this will make it much easier. Every time someone compliments your work in an email, save the email. You can include those as well.

      1. Not A Manager*

        I am very good at keeping logs and lists for other people, and very bad at doing it for myself. I have good intentions but inevitably it falls by the wayside.

        What works for me personally is to take screen shots of whatever I *should* be logging, and just pop them all into a folder. I know this is sub-optimal in many ways, but it’s MUCH better than nothing. When I need the information I can just look at the screen shots and make my list at that time.

    2. Seashells*

      We have to do this in the first quarter of the year and I hate it. Oh and it’s 9 PAGES LONG. We do not get merit or performance-based raises so it feels more like a box someone thinks they have to check. I talked to my boss about it a couple of years ago and he said “just copy and paste”, and even though I thought that was…not smart, I did. No one noticed. I’ve done it for a couple of years now and still no one has noticed. He knows of course and he’s fine with it.

      I do pretty much the same thing year after year and I’m totally ok with that. There is just enough new things to keep me from being bored. There’s only so many way to say “I keep all the office machines running, order all the supplies, keep the calendar in order, do paperwork for new hires, do paperwork for event A and B”, etc.

      1. Unemployed Forever*

        Lost my last job due to COVID and worked for myself for the previous 20 years prior to finding the best job I ever had. I so hate the corporate self evaluations and my manager’s reaction to it that I started the cut and paste thing. Worked even better when I moved into the manager position. Nobody ever noticed.

    3. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      Our self-assessments are normally full-on essays, but this year they decided to do away with them because COVID and I’m stoked about not having to write it for a change. (We’re instead doing informal discussions with our management, and my manager basically thinks I hung the moon.)

    4. Annie Moose*

      Ahhhh I hate them too! Also not looking forward to my subsequent one on one with my manager. I’m switching managers (or, more precisely, one of my coworkers is moving up to be project lead/manager and our old manager is shifting to a different project team), but the review is going to be with my old manager, and I’m not sure if that will be a good thing or bad. He almost certainly has no clue what I’ve been doing, due to a lot of project and subproject weirdness, which means all his info will come secondhand. And my midyear review wasn’t fantastic (WFH and I are not friends) and he’s a known grump. So this review will either be ten seconds of “I have no clue what you did in the past six months, bye I guess” or a half-hour of “did you do a bad job, actually” (which is probably true lol)

    5. The New Wanderer*

      I hate having to use our system to do self-assessments/listing of all my accomplishments. But, at its core, I love listing out the accomplishments because I Want Credit for all the stuff I’ve done. Part of the reason this is motivating is because my work generally isn’t very visible to my manager so if I don’t make a point of highlighting all of it, it doesn’t count. One of my past managers still has a diminished idea of the scope of my work or skillset because I inadvertently sold myself short during that year’s review.

      Doesn’t mean I didn’t still procrastinate :-) Just be very sure you include everything you can!

    6. Stephanie*

      Oh man, I am the worst about this. I think I kept cleaning (because it’s always a mess here since I started 100% WFH). It was even worse this year because I got objectives that were written for my boss’ boss, so I had things like “Develop career paths for managers” as an IC. So I just avoided it until like the last possible minute.

    7. Generic Name*

      I procrastinate on long term projects by saying yes to a bunch of quick turnaround projects so I’m running in panic mode by the time the project is due.

    8. Hater of work self assessments*

      I procrastinate the living daylights out of mine every time. Work, AMA, reddit, dishes, vacuuming, dusting, any daily chore, any monthly/seasonally/yearly chore, exercise, have done it all. Eventually I force myself to write *something* before going to bed. I usually end up doing/finishing them up very late at night. If you do this, don’t submit it immediately. I got a email from my boss asking if I had been up all night since they know I’m not a morning person and they got an auto-email about my submission at 4 or 5 am. Oops? Now I still finish it late but I proof-read and submit at a more normal hour the next day.

    9. Wheee!*

      I’ve been working on mine all day! My process went something like this:
      1. Flip through task tracking notebook to remember what happened
      2. Find important thing that needs to be logged in the task tracker!
      3. Open task tracker, remember that there were additional related things that need to be added
      4. Flip through notebook to find that list
      5. Create multiple tickets to cover all of those issues
      6. Remember that there was a weird permissions issue that might cause an issue for the new hires
      7. Open the permissions
      8. Wonder about what the difference is between project roles and groups.
      9. Hunt down the answer
      10. Update the permissions
      11. Wonder about the external user permissions
      12. Look into that and realize that groups we don’t even work with anymore from outside the company might still have access to all of the projects.
      13. Remove their access from all 10 of the projects
      14. Report the issue to IT to make sure their permission is revoked from the system as a whole.
      15. Ask around about one of them because you’ve never even heard of them.
      16. Turn back to notebook to continue work
      17. Find the page with the issue that started it all and realize that ticket wasn’t entered.
      18. Create that ticket
      19. Go back to flipping through the notebook

      As I write this all out, I realize that there were a few other digressions just part of this section that I skipped over. So yes, I can relate!

  22. lifesempossible*

    Looking for the best questions to ask in an interview next week and/or delicate ways of asking them.

    Some background: I recently graduated with an accounting degree, and I pursued that degree because I’m interested in financial advising. I found a position with a respected company for that role! It has both has a local office and allows remote work. I am talking further with them about their “Financial Advising Training Program” versus jumping into an open “Financial Advisor” role. (I qualify for both, according to the minimum requirements.)

    I plan to ask about that remote/office balance, especially as Covid restrictions lift (whenever they do). I like the idea of access to the office, but my husband and I are talking about being snowbirds for part of the year, so the ability to work remotely is important.

    My other concern is that the salary range is quite large, and I think it’s from commissions. The information that the recruiter sent to me talked about being your “own business” in a sense. (You are employed by the company and have their benefit programs, but also are expected to hold clientele.) How can I phrase a question about making sure there is no dropping below a minimum income? Does anyone know if there is a base pay, and then commissions on top of that?

    What other questions do you recommend asking? (Are there some AAM posts somewhere to point me to?) Thanks!

    1. T. Boone Pickens*

      I’m most familiar with Edward Jones and the way they run their comp is you’re given a salary (whatever you negotiate) for I believe 12 months which at that time, the salary will go away or will reduce to a much smaller figure. The understanding is you’ll be offsetting that loss in salary with an increase in commission from the business you bring in. Turnover as you can imagine, is quite high.

      I’d ask in granular detail about what the compensation looks like and if there is a ‘training wage’ and then I’d dive into the nitty gritty about what that looks like in terms of a time frame, how long it lasts, etc. I’d also dive heavily into what types of support you’ll be getting and if any back office help would come out of your pocket or if the company would pay for it.

    2. Bernice Clifton*

      I used to be an administrative assistant for financial advisors. I can only speak for the firm where I worked, but working in a different state for a few months each year would not have been feasible due to licensing and client expectations.

    3. Chestnut Mare*

      OK, I have a lot of thoughts, as I am retired from this field. My first question would be to ask you what type of financial advisor you’d like to be? What types of products to you want to sell? There are many of them.

      Will you have to take any series exams? Any kind of investment product requires at least a Series 6, unless you are only planning to sell insurance products/fixed annuities, in which case you’ll need insurances licenses only.

      If you need to be licensed, how much time will your firm give you to take the exam? Will they give you time to study? Will they pay you a salary until you can generate commissions? Will you be fired if you don’t pass on the first try? Will they pay for the exam(s)?

      How will you get clients? Are you going to be supporting another agent, will you have to cold-call, will you be the representative for a 401(k) plan? Will you have to generate a certain amount of business within a set amount of time, or risk being let go?

      The phrasing of your “own business” makes me think of Edward Jones, as a previous poster mentioned. Unless you are buying out a book of business from a retiring agent, this is likely going to involve many years of hitting up friends and families, hounding them for referrals, and lots and lots of meetings around kitchen tables, all to hopefully clear your expenses. These types of agencies are very much “churn and burn” shops; they cast a wide net and hire a lot of people in hopes that some are great salespeople and become rainmakers. It happens, but it’s rare.

      As far as guaranteed minimum income, it’s not something that typically happens in this industry unless you’re in a salaried support role. You might have that arrangement for a few months, maybe even a year, but at some point you will be expected to generate enough commissions to cover your draw.

      That being said, if you’re passionate about customer service and sales, it can be a great career. I loved it; I enjoy people and really liked putting together financial tools to help them reach their goals. It’s been a good gig for me, but it’s been a lot of work and some very lean times. I’ve also seen it be a predatory business, both in terms of unsophisticated investors being coerced into inappropriate products, as well as people being recruited into firms with promises of easy money. Nothing about this business is easy for very long.

    4. Hotdog not dog*

      I’ve been in that line of work for over 25 years…a good place to start if you’re looking for a steady income might be as registered support or as a junior member of a team of advisors. The salary isn’t fabulous, but you often qualify for additional comp or bonuses, and it’s a good way to learn the business and develop a network. You will probably also be able to add licenses on the company’s dime without a short deadline. (For new advisors they usually give you anywhere from 30 to 90 days, but support staff typically gets longer.) Most investment companies will change their commission payouts annually, so even if they’re generous now that might not always be the case. That said, when it goes well it’s a great business, very challenging and rewarding! But when it doesn’t go well it will grind you to a pulp. Best of luck to you!

    5. lifesmpossible*

      Thank you to all four of these replies!
      I will say that it isn’t Edward Jones, but it is just as large and well-known, so I’m taking the leap and assuming they operate similarly. The comment of “churn and burn” seems accurate, as these job openings list “Hiring for 5-10 people.” I was suspicious when the hiring salary was fairly high for the region, but barely requires anything other being a “self starter.”

      Honestly, even though I have wanted to do financial advising, this avenue seems like it isn’t quite right for me. I envisioned something more along the lines of income taxes + general planning, where taxes serve as a minimum check-in, and then consulting/appointments the rest of the year. I am also interested in the overlap of psychology and money, like financial therapy.

      When talking to my husband about it, I struggled to separate the characteristics you all have listed from an MLM, which I avoid like the plague. The only marker difference between this company and the MLM seemed to be that you qualify for corporate benefits. (An important thing, definitely. But I feel strongly that there should be a livable minimum income.)

      Thank you again for taking the time to write your replies! I appreciate it!

  23. Free to Freelance*

    Good morning (from the west coast), are there folks who work full time and freelance or have a side business? I really want to start my business, but I don’t think I’m ready to quit my job and dive in (I’ve barely even started setting it up because I’m just so tired after work.)

    If anyone is successfully doing both, how do you find/make the time? If you have a particularly demanding full time job, do you have any tips with starting slow without burning out? Do you basically work on the weekends or nights after work? When do you find time to rest?

    1. Kiko*

      I don’t do this, but my sister does. She is a full-time marketer and runs a photography business on the side. I’ll be honest, it’s really tricky for her. In fact, I think one of the reasons she was dismissed from her last job was because she was letting her side business trickle into her full-time job hours. I think you should start with fewer projects than you think you can manage and work up from there. Also, assign “active” job tasks to the weekend and “passive” job tasks during the workweek when you’re less focused. My sister typically takes portraits during the weekend and then spends the weekday evenings editing. She’s been doing it for so long she just does it while watching TV. Good luck!

    2. Pascall*

      I do freelancing currently, but really just to supplement the small pay cut I took when taking my current job which was purposefully less demanding so I could actually have time/energy to freelance.

      What I recommend is having a set amount of hours or a schedule to start with that you provide clients when you tell them your rates. For me, when starting, I usually relegated my freelancing to weekends so I could have weeknights to just chill; play video games; whatever. But then gradually, as you find time to balance, you can increase that amount of hours you spend to 1 or 2 weeknights in addition to the weekends. You basically have to start small and work your way up and never exceed what you know you can reasonably handle.

      When you start pressing yourself past your limits, your work will suffer. So you have to be very strict about your hours and how much time and effort you spend on freelancing. A lot of the freelancing/entrepreneur culture will convince you that you have to PUSH and work yourself to death, but it’s honestly not worth it when your health and sanity suffers. It’s much better to take your time, build your skills and portfolio (depending on what your business/freelancing skillset is), and work when you’re able to. Then you can be sure that the work you’re producing isn’t rushed or isn’t the result of you on the verge of burnout.

      I hope that helps! On a slow year I’ll earn about $8k-$10k from freelancing and in a busy year, I can earn between $20k-$25k. It’s not a standalone business yet, but I’ve only been doing it for about 4 years now. So I imagine once you’re able to really diversify your skillset and build a client-base, you can eventually branch out on your own.

  24. wantaJobNow*

    How to interpret bad job search advice?

    Since the beginning of the year, I’ve sought job search advice from local nonprofits, government groups, even the “Career Coach” program offered by the public library system.

    I explain at the start of each conversation that I’m looking for specific information about how to rework my resume and cover letter package to make it more appealing for marketing positions. Rather than acknowledging their knowledge is limited/non-existent and they cannot offer guidance, I instead end up with general information more useful for office assistant positions or applying to government jobs (neither of which I’m interested in).

    To provide context, see below for just a few nuggets of horrible suggestions I’ve heard this week:

    Remove 2 years’ worth of work because it involves voter registration and that might alienate prospective employers. When asked what to replace it with, I was told to just leave a sizeable unemployment gap rather than include my non-partisan work.

    Include every job you’ve had since graduating from high school (so, nearly 20 years of employment history on a two-page resume with skills, affiliations, achievements and education) with four or five bullet points each, no matter how long ago you held the position.

    Bold every job position and italicize every numeric achievement on my resume. Seriously, wouldn’t that overwhelm a reader’s eyes quickly?

    When discussing one organization’s preferred resume structure, the woman assisting me showed me a real person’s resume. This person didn’t work in marketing but was a public school teacher helping students on the autism spectrum (a wonderful field of work worthy of more money and respect).

    Based on what I’m being told, I feel that disregarding most of the advice is my best course of action. I am willing to make some alterations to my resume and cover letter as a sort of A/B test to see if there are any differences.

    Do you have any other suggestions or commiserations to share?

    Thanks for taking time to read!

    1. Littorally*

      Bolding the job position makes sense to me — that makes it easier to parse out each position’s section. But italicizing numbers seems excessive; from my experience, italics don’t do nearly as much to organize information as bolding does.

    2. irene adler*

      It might help to seek out persons in the field/industry you wish to work in. Something like a professional organization with a local chapter. They would be able to give you industry-specific suggestions on what employers in the industry like to see on the resume. And what not to put on the resume.

      Remember that a resume is a marketing document designed to display you/your skills/knowledge/experience in their best light. It is not an all – inclusive history. Refer to your LinkedIn page for the chronological rendering of your work history.

      When I review resumes, I want to see information that answers “what can you do for me?” So align your resume skills and accomplishments with the job description that I’m trying to fill. That helps me to see that you are a fit for the position.
      Don’t muck up the resume with things that do not pertain to the job. Otherwise, there’s distractions that won’t let me see how you fit the position.
      If you are worried about gaps via leaving something out, then include the job. But just make it a very brief entry.

      1. AnotherLibrarian*

        Yes, this is all solid advice and I agree that you need to find someone who works in the field to give field specific advice. I work in libraries, but I’ve hired for museums, higher ed, and government jobs. I can give general advice, but only someone in the field knows the best options. The resume I expect from a librarian is not the resume I expect from a professor and is not the resume for a computer programmer. You need to find some marketeers to talk to. Good luck!

    3. Joan Rivers*

      “their knowledge is limited/non-existent and they cannot offer guidance, I instead end up with general information . . .” —

      Sounds like you need to seek guidance from better sources. You can see that these aren’t helpful.

      If you consult the Public Library “Career Coach” you get what you pay for, I assume. Not that it couldn’t be helpful, but maybe not for you.

      These sources sound “free” or “cheap” so maybe you have to ask the question, “What is a good source of help in my situation?

  25. A*

    Advice on not being crushed by a workload coming in over email? I’m leaving a job where we had a huge workload that was hard to quantify for the benefit of our supervisors (and going to a new job next week, which is why this is on my mind).

    In the job I’m leaving, actual job assignments were sent to us on a portal where the clients were supposed to centralize all communication with us. In actual practice, the clients only wanted to email us. Our supervisors only looked at the portal and not at our email inboxes, so a supervisor could say, “Hmm, why is it taking you so long to complete one simple request on the portal?” and the answer would be that I’d spent all that time answering the client’s many angry emails because they refused to communicate in any other way than by email. It was like an unending hot-dog-eating contest.

    My main reason for leaving is that I can’t stand working as fast as I can all day while also being sent snippy “Please try to keep up” messages by my supervisor. But of course, I’m afraid that I will end up in a similar position at the job I’m starting, where I have a hard time proving to my supervisor that my huge workload really is a huge workload. The new place looks better, but of course any employer can talk a good game and then not live up to its promises.

    Advice on how to protect myself from this situation in the future? How does one advocate for oneself when there’s an invisible huge work-stream coming in that doesn’t show up on workplace metrics?

    1. I'm A Little Teapot*

      Make the invisible, visible. Put those emails into the system yourself if you can. Hit forward to the manager with a “fyi, got this email, am on top of it but wanted to keep you in the loop”. Ask for assistance training clients to use the portal/redirect them to the portal, etc.

      1. pancakes*

        +1, and quantify the emails in an email summarizing the problem as well. Something along the lines of, “FYI, I added 17 requests that came in via email to the portal this week.” And if a dozen of those came from one particular client, that’s worth flagging as well.

    2. Rachel in NYC*

      Or respond to the emails and cc: your supervisor/boss. My supervisor and I had an early policy that I cc: him on everything, now I do it on most things. He skims those emails but include him so if someone gets mad or an issue comes up when I’m not around, he’ll have a background.

      In your case, it would let your supervisor know how much stuff is coming in by email.

    3. Satisfactory Worker*

      Were you allowed to push back on how client’s using email?

      “Sorry, I can’t respond to this. Corporate says everything has to go through the portal so it is tracked. Can you please submit this on the portal and I will right back to you?”

    4. Not A Manager*

      This might not be the best real-world advice, but after a few of those exchanges with my supervisor I would cc them on every. damn. email.

    5. ana_h*

      I’m in a job like this. I set up a folder in my inbox for emails I’ve actioned every month and click ‘show total number of items’ so I can see how many I’ve dealt with each month. It’s really useful as data to bring to meetings/respond to mgmt with.

  26. Just Peachy*

    So, I have a terrible manager. She was promoted to her current position about 3 years ago when our previous (great) manager resigned.

    Our office hours are 7:30 A.M.-4:30 P.M., but we’re generally dead on fridays after about 2:30 P.M. Our previous manager let us leave between 3:30-4:00 every Friday, and would cover the phones for the last 30 minutes-hour of the day (which would rarely actually ring).

    The current, terrible manager is the definition of “on a power trip”, and has never once let us leave even a minute before 4:30 (she once gave an employee grief for leaving at 4:28!) Ironically, she shows up 30+ minutes late every day and often leaves early herself, despite the nature of her job being a position where she’s often needed at 7:30 A.M. Our customers often complain about her lack of reliability and responsiveness.

    Anyway, yesterday, she calls myself and my the other two employees she manages into her office yesterday. All excitedly, she says “Hey! I just had a great idea! To show my appreciation, I wanted to give you guys a treat! Starting tomorrow, you can all alternate Fridays leaving at 4:00 P.M.! Just make sure to cut your lunch breaks in half (our lunch breaks are generally an hour), and you each will get to leave at 4:00 every third Friday!” I almost couldn’t keep a straight face. Not sure how this is considered a “treat” when we’re all still working 40 hours a week – one person will just be shortening their lunch to leave a half hour early, lol. We’re all salaried employees, btw. Yet, we all work at least 40 hours a week to avoid my boss’s wrath, while my boss herself works about 35 hours a week on average. It’s just comical seeing her act like she’s giving us this huge perk of leaving early once every three weeks by 30 minutes (but still having to make up the time over lunch!), when she consistently works so few of hours.

    In other news – I gave my notice today, as I’m planning on being a stay at home mom when my baby is born next month, so all of the nonsense here will soon be a thing of the past. :)

    1. Firecat*

      But in seats managers are bad enough, but when they are hypocrits and subscribe to the HR nonsense of “Presenting a negative things as if it’s a benefit will definitely make people not furious at you…” is just way worse. Glad you are done soon. Good luck with SAHS!

    2. voyager1*

      What was she like before she was promoted? Honestly this sounds like someone who is trying too hard while at the same time doesn’t have the maturity to be a manager.

      1. Just Peachy*

        She wasn’t as bad, but I feel like she always had that tendency in her. So, I’m not surprised that she is the way she is as a manager. Unfortunately, at the time she was promoted, it was kind of a, “well, there’s no one else” kind of thing (myself and my coworkers were both fairly new at the time, while the current manager had been here for 8 years), and my company likes to hire from within. We would have been better off hiring an external candidate!

        1. Joan Rivers*

          If she leaves early as often as you say, why can’t everyone else too? She won’t know, will she?

          And if she sees you leaving behind her, you can say, “Oh, isn’t it 4:30 yet? I saw you leaving and just packed up.”

    3. Double A*

      I don’t know if you could change this, but do you qualify for FMLA? Because otherwise I wouldn’t quit before going on maternity leave, even if I didn’t intend to come back. Those skimpy benefits are benefits you earned.

      1. Just Peachy*

        I do have those benefits available. I initially intended on using them, but after many discussions and prayers with my husband (and a multitude of other factors), we decided that it was ultimately the best decision for our family for me to resign at 37 weeks. Thankfully, my husband has a great job, we have no debt, have invested a ton in our 401k, etc. I’m at peace with the decision. :)

    4. Annie Moose*

      No advice, just sympathy. I had an old boss who used to come in early in the morning and he was constantly suspicious of those of us who came in later. Like he’d show up at 7 AM and I’d start at 8:30 AM, so obviously I would be around much later in the day than he was. He was always making passive-aggressive comments about us leaving early, if we were working through our lunches and counting that as billable hours, etc. etc. I always figured that it was because he wasn’t trustworthy himself so he just assumed everyone else was trying to short the company too.

      1. Just Peachy*

        Thank you for your sympathy!

        I feel the exact same way about my manager – she is untrustworthy, and assumes the rest of us are, too!

  27. MMM*

    My roommate has been working with a recruiter to try and find a new job, and apparently she had to provide her SAT scores. The recruiter said something about the company really valuing SAT scores and Dean’s List in college (which I can understand a little more than SAT scores but still) We both took the SAT over a decade ago, so she had to contact College Board to even get access to her scores again. I think it’s beyond bizarre, but I don’t really want to insert myself into her job search. If it were me, I’d consider it a red flag that they put so much emphasis on standardized testing success from high school….right?

    2. JohannaCabal*

      It’s also a way for the company to determine age because the scoring system has changed over the years. Right after I took the SAT, College Board added a writing portion which raised the scoring range.

      (I wish the writing portion had been in play when I took it–would have pushed my score higher!)

      2. Firecat*

        Eh don’t count on it. I frequently had A’s in writing, but I got middling scores on the writing portion. I was in the first year it was implemented. A friend of mine got a perfect score and I asked her how – it turns out she had an essay in mind about MLK that she was going to write no matter the prompt. She had refined the essay over months, memorized it, and all of her “writing prep” had been practicing ways to pivot any prompt. I

        So she used the measly 30 minutes of prep to outline your entire essay to just focus how she was going to use to the first paragraph to pivot to her prepared essay.

        I don’t remember the prompt – it was something like explain in your own words what education means to you – or something like that. She said she spend the first paragraph talking about how education is empowering and with that empowerment and learning you get people like MLK and the rest of the essay was about how amazing MLK is and why. It worked she got a perfect score.

        1. TL -*

          The #1 feature of a top score is length. And if you follow the essay structure you’re taught in school & use a lot of big vocabulary words, you’ll do really well, regardless of your ability to actually write.

          1. Stephanie*

            I had a roommate who would write long, rambling Medium essays full of GRE words and they were the most tedious things to read.

          2. Generic Name*

            It really is amazing how far this will get you. I worked with a guy who sounded great but actually didn’t know what he was doing. He could string a series of big words together in a grammatically correct way that actually said nothing of substance, but sounded good to a lay reader.

            1. TL -*

              Yup. I’ve edited someone like that (and I mean, a full line-by-line, 10+ hrs, identifying the reference point of every “it” in the paper edit) and he was outright shocked by the amount of feedback he got.

              Really nice person, smart as a whip and great at his job, but a terrible writer who thought he was good because nobody had ever taken the time to interrogate his big word/complex sentence BS before. (which he had probably been taught at his excellent high school, in his AP classes.)

      3. Stephanie*

        I do pretty well on standardized writing tests, but doing well of them usually doesn’t reflect good writing (or more accurately, it reflects a very narrow interpretation of good writing). Often times, there’s a direct positive correlation between length and score. And they very much like the standard five-paragraph essay format. On the GRE, too, I suspect they wanted you to use GRE-level vocabulary. I knew it, but if I wrote a work email in GRE words, I would sound so strange!

        1. TL -*

          Once I took the GRE twice, about a year apart, and brought my writing score up from the 50% to the 90+% percentile by taking ten minutes to review the second essay and replacing every word I can with a multsyllabic syllable.

          I did nothing else to prepare – I didn’t study, I didn’t read any tips, I didn’t look up strategies, I didn’t do a lot of writing in the intervening year – I just used my (rather impressive) vocabulary to its fullest and I went from average to a top scorer.

          Now I’m actually paid to write professionally and a LOT of what I do is change out multisyllabic SAT words and jargon for simpler language…

    3. Bear Shark*

      I’d consider it a red flag, especially if they wanted proof of her scores. If they take SAT scores that seriously I wouldn’t be surprised if they asked for proof of the score, which would have the date of testing on it and roughly correlate to her age.

      At this point her SAT score has about as much relevance to her qualifications as her high school GPA and her high school summer jobs.

      1. Rachel 2: Electric Boogaloo*

        This. I took the SAT over 30 years ago. (Yikes!) I would be shocked if the College Board still had my score on file!

      2. MMM*

        Yes she absolutely had to send proof, she was able to call CB and get them sent. Honestly her scores aren’t all that impressive, but since I know her as a whole person I hope for her sake that her previous experience and interview weighs much more heavily

    4. Firecat*

      To me it’s a huge red flag of – we only want to hire rich people who are connected regardless of their work performance.

      The SAT has been proven time and time again to increase with wealth, not correlate with IQ, and frequently limit gifted minorities and poor from education opportunities. SAT doesn’t strongly correlate with college GPAs at all.

      I’d assume the company is stuffed with nepotism and obsessed with breeding. Pass.

    5. Kiko*

      I would not be interested in working for an organization that values test scores and grades. I would be worried that they attach importance to other superficial forms of measurement like how many hours worked rather than the end product.

      1. The New Wanderer*

        Excellent point! Arbitrary quantification with minimal relevance to performance isn’t limited to aptitude tests.

    6. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      … I didn’t even TAKE the SAT, I took the ACT instead. But yeah, that’s nonsense, because it was over 20 years ago. :P

      1. Reba*

        As universities are moving away from requiring SAT in admissions (not all that many yet, but it’s definitely a trend), I’m hoping this test will finally die.

    7. Stephanie*

      Ugh, consulting firms love test scores. It’s a red flag for me as it’s a firm that overemphasizes a narrow form of academic achievement and (probably) will be not particularly diverse.

  28. No Hablo*

    I need a gut check here.

    A friend (Bobbi) is a personal assistance for the owner of a company. When a job opened at the company as a Teapot Manager, she thought of me as it’d be the next relevant step up from my teapot coordinator position currently. The job description seemed perfect. The only problem – Spanish was listed as a requirement. I applied anyway since it was such a good fit in other ways that I thought why not, particularly if the friendly connection might help get an interview. And I heard from Bobbi that this position has 1 direct report who is fluent in Spanish so maybe it’s not as necessary for both of us to be.

    Bobbi mentioned my application to her boss. Her boss told her to tell me to put Spanish on my resume and resubmit my application. I said I’m not comfortable lying on my resume like that. I figured if interviewed, I’d talk about a willingness to learn but I can’t pretend I can say much more than Hola now.

    My husband and Bobbi are both acting like I’m insane for not wanting to lie. I know I could in the future be fired if lying on the resume got me the job. I’m employed currently and while I’m feeling ready to move on, I’m in a secure enough situation to make sure the next move is the best move. This encouragement to lie on resume from the business owner to get an interview just seems… sketchy? red-flaggy?

    Idk, is it just me?

    1. Who moved my cheese?*

      Have you asked your husband and Bobbi how they expect it to go on Day 1 when you’re supposed to start speaking fluent Spanish for the job? Seriously, what’s up with them?

      1. No Hablo*

        Bobbi shrugged and said if the company owner’s the one saying it it shouldn’t be a problem.

        My husband thinks it would be a foot in the door and then I could explain it in the interview. I’ve done hiring and interviewing before – I can’t imagine I would’ve reacted well to someone admitting they lied on the resume to get an interview. That’d be so much worse to me than just applying without a listed requirement; that I would consider for a hard to fill role but lying? Nah…

        1. pancakes*

          If it’s not required for the position they shouldn’t be using it to screen resumes and encouraging candidates to lie to get through screening. The idea that the owner of the business doesn’t think the position requires Spanish but can’t or won’t get the listing changed to reflect that is very strange. It seems more likely that your contact is lying about the owner’s position on this vs. the owner of the business being powerless to change it.

    2. Llama face!*

      That is sketchy! It isn’t just you. And a falsified document like that could end up biting you in the backside in the future. Frankly, if it were me I would start wondering what other ethical corners they were okay with cutting at that business if the boss goes straight to suggesting you lie on your resume.

      1. No Hablo*

        That’s why it feels like a red flag to me too. If that’s how all hiring happens there, do I want to join this staff?

    3. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      There’s a lot of resumes out there with falsehoods on them, but you are in the right!

      I can sort of understand (but not agree with) this advice from people like your spouse, friends or family… I’m giving more of a side-eye to the grand-boss proposing that!

      Do you have any knowledge of basic Spanish at all (i.e is it truly just ‘hola’)? If so, you could perhaps mention it (being honest about your actual level) in a cover letter, or even on a resume if you are very clear that it is “rudimentary” (or whatever applies to you) Spanish.

      1. No Hablo*

        If anything, I’d update my cover letter. I worked in a Teapot Manufacturer before as an Admin. 50% of the production staff spoke english as a second language or not at all. I would reference that I found myself able to get by with basics and asking if the person I spoke with was comfortable with so-and-so acting as a translator. I thought about doing that before all this but decided I’d rather focus on my strengths than the one weakness. Putting on a resume feels like a stretch though.

    4. Fiona*

      Extremely weird. It would be one thing if you were proficient but not fluent and you could ramp up your skills if you got the job. It’s another thing to just completely lie. And if your interviewer decides to conduct your interview in Spanish, what happens then?

    5. Asenath*

      I would absolutely not lie on a resume – aside from the moral issues, this is one that will come back to bite you fast. Probably, if you are hired, when you first meet your Spanish-speaking direct report, who will start to chat with you in Spanish. I actually did something like this by mistake when I was a student. I was applying for a student-type job in a foreign country, so of course had to list the languages I spoke. I put down the ones I had studied, including German which I had had about a semester of study in. I honestly thought that was the right thing to do, but it was interpreted as meaning I could actually speak German, which I couldn’t except for common greetings and very short sentences about common situations. They were very nice about it when they discovered this, but it was a lesson to me to be specific and accurate about describing my linguistic abilities – “Studied for a while” does not mean “Fluent”.

    6. Malarkey01*

      Yeah, you’re right and they are very wrong. It would be one thing if they were suggesting you beef up the experience a little or overly highlight a role (still not great). To straight up lie when you can’t even find a bathroom in Spanish would really show you were dishonest and lacked judgement.

    7. RagingADHD*

      Okay, lying aside, there is something really skeevy going on here.

      If the *owner* doesn’t think that the Spanish qualification is important, why not just say, “Oh, it’s irrelevant, don’t worry about it.”

      Who are they lying to? Why are they trying to trick the hiring manager instead of just having a normal conversation with them about what qualifications are actually necessary for the job?

      There is some kind of weird dynamic in that company, and if you play along you are going to wind up being a pawn in someone else’s game that you don’t even understand.

      1. The New Wanderer*

        “Who are they lying to?” Good question! (Also don’t do it because whatever the answer, it’s not great that they want you to effectively lie on record)

        My immediate thought was that it’s like when you attach Principal Investigator profiles/CVs to a grant proposal, to demonstrate that you have people who are qualified to do the work you’re proposing. They seem to want this qualification on file via OP’s resume for Some Reason, so what is it?

    8. The Gollux, Not a Mere Device*

      It’s not just you.

      Ages ago, my mother advised me that I put skills I had on my resume even if I didn’t have experience with them at work–that nobody was going to ask my previous employers, or school, whether I’d groomed llamas for them, if I did in fact know how to groom llamas because I’d done it at home for three years, or as a volunteer for the local llama stables.

      But that was only for skills I in fact had, where I could walk into a job and start grooming llamas. You’re not being told to claim work experience in a skill you learned as a hobby–they’re urging you to say things you can’t back. Bobbi and her boss aren’t going to say “we knew she doesn’t speak Spanish, we told her to list that to get past the automatic screening” if you get hired and then draw a blank when asked to use the language.

      1. Metadata minion*

        Yeah, I think skills acquired outside of work can be extremely relevant, especially if they’re on the more quantifiable side (i.e., “I can do X, Y, and Z in Excel” or “I have designed websites for some volunteer organizations; here they are so you can see my skill level” is more reasonable than claiming you have “event planning” because you helped a few friends plan their weddings)

    9. ThePear8*

      Do not lie on your resume. If reading AAM has taught me anything, it’s that it can severely undermine your credibility. If it ends up being important for the job, you might find yourself in a job you’re not able to perform well in without the necessary language skills.
      Plus, when it comes to language especially, there’s a chance the interviewer might even try to speak it with you. It might not be very likely depending on the situation, but for example I helped my sister’s fiancee with his resume when he was searching for a job and told him to list that he knew Spanish because he actually did grow up in a Spanish-speaking family and is quite proficient in the language, so it could be an advantage to have a second language skill on his resume. He said the interviewer at the job he later got noticed it on his resume and spoke some Spanish with him in the interview. Obviously, if you do NOT actually know Spanish, this would be quite a tight situation to be in! It might not happen, but I think it’s best if you don’t have to explain in the interview why your resume includes a blatant lie.
      And as other replies have said, it’s very sketchy that the boss wants you to lie on your resume? That does raise a lot of alarm bells in my head. If you get an interview, I would say it’s a good chance to feel things out and confirm if it’s as much of a red flag as it sounds like…but yeah, you really shouldn’t need to lie on your resume and it’s extremely weird the company is telling you to.

    10. Cambridge Comma*

      In your position I’d put on that I was learning Spanish and start an intensive course asap. I like learning languages, though, so it’s probably not a solution for everyone.

  29. Tbubui*

    So yesterday (Thursday) afternoon I had a huge mess dumped on my desk by another department. They told me, surprise!, instead of a project deadline being the end of February as they said in mid-December, the deadline is now Monday at 9:00am. This is not physically possible. If I worked 24 hours per day until Monday I could not complete this task. And I am the only person that can complete this task in the entire organization, so it’s not like my coworkers can jump in and help.

    My boss is furious with the other department as they have no idea what our work involves (we’re a non-profit educational organization and they’re the finance department of our parent organization, if that makes sense). This requirement was something they have never asked us for before, so it was quite a shock to find out about it before the business closed for 2 weeks over Christmas. And then being told on Thursday the project needed to be finished by the start of the day on Monday is insane.

    I guess my question is: Does anyone have any tips for navigating this issue? My boss and I want to escalate it with the grandboss in our parent organization but I’m wondering if anyone has experience telling a higher-up that a task they have set is literally impossible? It’s a complex and industry-specific task that I would not expect anyone in finance to have experience with, so how do I communicate its complexity without the explanation being overwhelming?

    1. Lunch Philosopher*

      This might not be helpful but I am so sorry that you are dealing with this. It is absolutely and impossibly insane for this team to do this to you.

      The amount of miscommunication between orgs/departments/teams can be STAGGERING. Is there a paper trail for this work? Did they mention the deadline in that paper trail before christmas? If not, that obviously should be flagged to your Grandboss. I also love the language of “working hours,” ie. if you give me something on friday at 3 pm and follow up Monday at 9:30, I’ve really only had 2.5 working hours to look at and complete the task. That could be helpful framing with your Grandboss?

      1. Tbubui*

        Thank you! There is a paper trail since we’re all at home and communicating via Teams or email. I’m also only a part time worker (15 hours a week) and am not allowed overtime, so that’s important to bring up (thank you for flagging that because I thought they would know, but they probably don’t). I’ll make sure to bring both of those points up with Grandboss.

    2. cosmicgorilla*

      You don’t need to go into specifics. You could say that if you focused on nothing else but this task, ignoring xyz tasks that you’re currently responsible for, you could have it done by x date. Conservatively by x date if no issues cropped up, but realistically, by y date.

      If you think the grandboss will want more specifics, do your best to summarize. Maybe have your boss review the summary – they may be able to summarize even more efficiently, as you’re too close to the details. I am this way, so I totally understand. It’s hard to get out of the weeds. Example – “It isn’t as simple as just filling out some paperwork. Each entry has to be researched to ensure we’re complying with local regulations. Each country has their own regulations. We’re looking at 50 entries per form, and 10 different countries. When we find things out of compliance, we have to go back to the teapot designer to have them re-do the form, then we re-validate their new entry. It’s pain-staking and time-consuming.” You don’t need to go into how the regulations are different or what the regulations cover, just keep it as high-level as possible.

      1. Tbubui*

        Thank you! It’s helpful to remember that I should talk broadly because I do get bogged down in the weeds. I’ll definitely make sure to give a conservative timeline, especially because I’m part-time and have many other responsibilities.

        As for what I do, does this explanation make sense: “Finding [required information for the project] is difficult, as there is no centralized database or record-keeping in our industry. I have to search individual organizational records going back up to 20 years and not all organizations keep records for more than 5 years. Sometimes I need to reach out to these organizations and wait for their response before I can move forward. Therefore I cannot finish this project by the Monday deadline.” And then I would give my timeline.

        1. Hillary*

          Start with your timeline, then say why in the passive voice. Take out anything that could be remotely construed as blame or negative – you’re giving a positive update about the project. Your boss should mention over voice that the Feb 1 date is impossible and maybe give more context, but don’t put that in writing. Assume your email will be forwarded to whoever made the request. I’d say:

          I anticipate completion around February 15. To produce this work I’ll be searching individual records in our paper files going back 20 years, sometimes requiring assistance from our partner organizations. If we go all hands on deck I can train colleagues and aim for Feb 1 (or whatever).

          1. Tbubui*

            Thank you so much! I really appreciate the help. The January 18 date is impossible so I really appreciate the advice on emphasizing the mid-February deadline. Unfortunately this isn’t something I can train colleagues on since they have their own, extremely important (and visible) projects for our organization. But I can say that I can prioritize this project over projects x, y, and z, since those have later deadlines and this is the priority.

            1. Hillary*

              Just remember getting bodies to help isn’t your problem – it’s your boss’s or grandboss’s problem. Basically put the ball in their court – if they can get you people, can you train them?

              1. Tbubui*

                Unfortunately this is a highly specialized discipline (I can’t specify as it will probably out me; it’s that specialized). You need at least 2-3 years of training to get to the point where you can do the task I have to do. And due to the pandemic, we don’t have a hope of hiring someone else to do that because we have no room in our budget. My boss can technically do it as she spent 5 years in my role before her promotions, but she already has a million obligations as the director of our organization, like applying for grants so we can keep running. So unfortunately it’s all on my shoulders and it means to reach the original deadline I have to drop every other project I was working on.

        2. cosmicgorilla*

          I wouldn’t add the “therefore” to your explanation. That just hits me in a negative way.

          I like Hillary’s response, but honestly, as a detailed person, I do like the point about organizations not having records past 5 years, so I’m inclined to keep that in. Otherwise, it might sound like all you have to do is reach out, and all the information is available at your fingertips.

          1. Hillary*

            Can you tell I work in a very political role? As a detail person I like the point about record retention, but to a senior manager it’s going to read like deflection. Just saying you have to work with partner orgs will make the point. They’re used to unresponsive partners.

          2. Tbubui*

            The information is definitely not at my fingertips. I can’t go into details but many organizations take weeks to get back to us with the information if they even have records going back 5 years (which many don’t for this particular specialization). And this project involves reaching out hundreds of times to many different organizations to get that information.

        3. Jennifer @unchartedworlds*

          I might add a “for example” timeline from past experience. “For example, when I did the entry for [organisation], I sent the request mid-November and received the information from them last week [so the total time elapsed to complete that entry was X].” Or something similar, including any main time-chunks of your own work, to give more of a concrete sense of a typical one.

    3. Buni*

      Usually if you can supply some sort of answer / solution *while* explaining why the initial thing isn’t going to happen, that goes some way towards ameliorating the bad news. In terms of explaining, I’m a big fan of actual bullet points (even if they’re only in you’re brain); think of 3 reasons why it can’t happen, condense them into single sentences and if necessary tick them off as you speak.

      On the other hand just yesterday I had to look my boss in the eye and literally use the phrase “[Boss], that’s not how linear time works.” so you have my sympathies.

      1. Tbubui*

        Thanks! Haha, I said something about linear time to my own boss when I explained to her that finance had moved up the timeline. You’re also right that I want to explain why this can’t happen but keep the news positive by emphasizing my solutions.

  30. Cruciatus*

    How do you make a decision about applying for a job when you’re relatively content at your current job but another job internally would pay more (and would probably be just fine)?
    I work for a university, at a smaller campus than main campus, but I work for the university libraries system. I am not a librarian, but I really enjoy my coworkers, student workers, I enjoy working in the library, and I like being part of the university libraries system because I get to meet more people from all the campuses. However, there is no ability for me to move up (unless my supervisor leaves–doubtful), and library duties don’t really change (except sometimes during a global pandemic–though this will eventually end. Probably).
    A job was just posted that is a grade higher than mine. I know the people in the department and I like them just fine. The duties seem like things I can handle. The department is actually upstairs in the library (though is not a library position–I’d be back to being “just” a local campus employee). But then once I take that job there is no movement in that department either so in a few more years I’d probably be back to looking for another higher grade position on campus. This is just a guess, but if I even got the position it would probably take me from a mid-$30thousandaire to a $40thousandaire, which isn’t a lot to most people, but would be to me.

    If I didn’t get the job I wouldn’t be upset to stay where I am. But the practical side of me is saying I should try to get more money. I know money is not “everything” but my pay is low enough that getting a few more thousand a year is a huge increase–potentially 10% or more (assuming they aren’t being stingy, which I admit they could be).

    I realize none of you can make this decision for me, but has anyone been in a similar position–did you regret it? I’d probably be just fine in that department so I don’t think it’d be a nightmare or anything, but I would be a little sad to see the library staff all the time and not be “one of them” anymore. It might almost be easier if the position were across campus (but I’m not sure that’s a good enough reason to not try for the position).

    1. Anono-me*

      That is a huge jump in pay. If you think that you would be happy and secure in the new position; if I were you, I would go for it.

      Soc. Sec. and most employer retirement programs are based on your earning history . The higher pay is a cumulative advantage beyond your salary.

      The thing is if you have a comfortable financial life now, you can take 1/2 of your raise and sock it away for retirement, the other half I would divide up further into three sections, emergency fund, big ticket (car, house, etc.) and fun money.

      You are talking about what sounds like a 30% raise. That to me is huge.

      Good luck

    2. Not a Real Giraffe*

      Why don’t you apply and see what happens? You don’t need to make a decision until an actual offer is presented to you, right? And you might learn stuff about the new role/department that may sway you more to one side than the other.

      FWIW, I used to work at a college career center and loved my colleagues, the environment, etc. but eventually moved to another role across campus that was a step up for me. I missed my old team! I missed being included in their staff get-togethers, I hated knowing they had new team experiences without me, etc. What I realized, though, is that I still saw them often enough in cross-departmental events, I could still keep in touch with them on a social basis, and once I had a new team to get to know and bond with, it wasn’t so hard to leave my old team behind.

    3. AnotherLibrarian*

      I think you might be “cart-horsing” a little. I’d do my due diligence. You know- ask around about the dept, check the Uni pay rules, develop a plan to apply, and then I would apply if you’re still interested. Until you have an offer in hand, there’s really no decision to be made. No reasonable boss will be surprised you left for a 10% pay bump. I know it’s hard to leave a team you enjoy (I had to do it fairly recently), but you will meet new people and develop new relationships and you can keep in touch.

    4. Anon for This*

      A few years ago I got a promotion over a peer because I had moved around a bit and broadened my experience while she had stayed in the same job for that same period. I was rather surprised to be elevated over her – she is a great employee, worker, and manager. But my broader scope and experience made the difference. (And the extra money from each job change didn’t hurt either.) Look at it from the perspective of whether the change is an investment in yourself and see if that changes your decision.

      1. College Career Counselor*

        Agreed with the comments from Anon, Anon for this, Another Librarian and not a real Giraffe. I started my career in academic program administration, and I really liked it and enjoyed working with students and faculty. Made a switch (because of no advancement opportunities) after several years to student affairs and gained a new appreciation (higher salary as well) of the structure and function of the university. Sounds like moving up (if you do) will give you the opportunity to learn new things, stay in touch (same building!) with former colleagues, make more money and potentially be more knowledgeable and experienced and therefore a good candidate for a wider range of future positions. Sounds like a good thing to me, and if you got it, you don’t even have to change institutions or move house to do it.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      I am leaning toward no, don’t move, stay put.

      The first thing I’d look at is how much is of the 5k or more goes toward taxes. It might not be as sweet a deal as it seems.

      You mention something that is probably of high value to you, but not monetary value, and that is leaving your group and the sad pup in the window feeling of being on the outside of the group and looking in. Something like this would weigh heavy with me. I would have to have something really special to make me leave the nest. I would need something that made the job really stand out. That could be pay or career path or it could be that I wanted to put some time in working on life goals with the extra money.

      I’d recommend looking around and seeing what other options might appeal to you. It’s really easy to get locked into, “I have to decide between job A and job B.” Very seldom is this statement actually true. Perhaps you could find a part time job. Perhaps you can find a way to change your budget. (I know, that can be super hard.)

      I guess unless I could get all “on fire” about taking this new job and accomplishing X, Y and Z for my career or for my home then I don’t think I’d apply.

  31. Kalongdia*

    Do you guys have any tips for doing well in graduate school interviews? I just got an email inviting me to interview (yay!) , but I don’t really know what to expect!

    1. Kimmy Schmidt*

      Congratulations!
      What field are you studying? Is the interview virtual or in-person?

      Just like a job interview, I’d invest some time in researching the school, department, and any professors you hope to work with. Poke around the website a bit. You may also want to look at the library resources to see what kinds of publications/databases they get in your field (I’m a librarian so this is partly a selfish idea). For many fields, you’ll be asked about your research interests, previous research experience, or any publications or presentations you’ve already done.

        1. AGD*

          Congratulations! In many psychology departments, as I understand it, the process of picking applicants is heavily decentralized: you’re in if a particular faculty member really wants to add you to their lab, basically. That doesn’t mean you need to know everything or have a set path already, of course, since graduate training is still school. But it does mean that it goes a long way if you make a straightforward, self-assured case for which labs you’d fit in well with (and/or which opportunities/resources specific to the program).

          There’s always a temptation for an applicant to say, “I want to attend your program because it’s highly rated and has amazing people,” but anyone could say that. :) They want to know about you: what makes you a good fit for them and them a good fit for you.

          1. College Career Counselor*

            Yup. I assume you’ve already done this to some extent, but figure out the specifics of research areas/courses you’re interested in and the specific faculty who work there doing that. If they admit you, they want you to be successful. Make sure that there would be a mentor (preferably multiple) mentors for you to engage with. I once saw an *outstanding* candidate rejected for admission into a prestigious program. The reason was his focus was not something any of the faculty would have been able to support. They want people who will do well, get through in a timely fashion, and reflect positively on the program.

            Good Luck!

    2. Tessera Member 042*

      In addition to the research @Kimmy Schmidt mentioned, it helps to have a specific research project in mind that you would like to work on, and some sense of how this particular grad school can help you with that project (professors/centers/labs you can work with; library resources you can use; etc). This is not to say that you can’t change your research interests once you’re enrolled or that you have to know the topic of your thesis/dissertation now, but since most grad programs are downsizing due to COVID/financial restrictions, they want to see that you can be successful in their program.

    3. Just a PM*

      Congratulations!

      Think about why you applied to the program. Why did you choose them? What’s your interest? What’s your plan with the degree? What kind of exposure have you had to the program/requirements/school before?

      Also look at the school’s social media too, in addition to their website like Kimmy recommended. I looked up the professors on LinkedIn so I could have a better idea of their expertise and publications, especially if it aligned to my areas of interest or future plans. (Though this might be a crapshoot…most of the professors I know don’t keep LinkedIn updated very well.)

    4. AnotherLibrarian*

      Specificity over general. Why this program? Why this school? Know about the program, the people teaching and what they do and be able to explain why those things align with what you want to do. Also, be yourself and try not to be too nervous. You’ll be okay.

    5. AcademiaNut*

      One thing you want to indicate is a deep interest in the program. Why psychology, why research, why grad school, why this department? Show that you’ve thought about it, have practical career ambitions that make grad school a necessary step and have a decent idea about what graduate studies and future career paths actually look like.

      ie, you want to distinguish yourself from applicants who have finished undergrad, realized the job market is crap, and figure “eh, why not grad school?”, applicants who are enthusiastic, but in a very shallow way that’s likely to burn off soon, and applicants who have no idea what they’re getting into.

    6. Stephanie*

      Congrats! Be prepared to answer why this program and this professor’s lab. And more broadly, as another commenter mentioned, why grad school and why now (beyond the economy sucks and you like school). Looking around the school’s and department’s website should be a good start. I’d be prepared to talk about what subfields you’re interested in. If you’re interviewing with a particular PI, I would go to Google Scholar (or similar) and get an idea of what they’ve published.

      Also, come prepared with your own questions about what students do after the program, the professor’s advising style, etc.

  32. DAMitsDevon*

    I’m wondering if anyone has advice for what to do if your supervisor is making you feel guilty or at the very least seems a bit unhappy that you’re planning on taking the day off for an agency holiday, particular if you work for an organization that has flexible holiday PTO. In previous years, our organization observed 12 holidays, so the office was closed and everyone had the day off. However, in efforts to be more culturally/religiously inclusive, we switched over to having “flexible holiday hours” this year, which means that while we are still technically closed for business on those 12 holidays that we observed in previous years, employees can choose to work on a certain holiday and then use that PTO for a holiday they celebrate in their culture (so a Jewish employee could choose to work on Christmas and then use those holiday hours to take off from work on Yom Kippur, for instance without having to use their vacation or personal hours). Also, now, if you want to take off for a holiday, you have to put in the PTO request (our system used to automatically put holidays on our calendars).

    While I’m happy about the inclusivity, my department has a tendency to encourage overworking and when I first heard about the flexible holiday hours, I feared this would lead to people being pressured to work on minor holidays that we traditionally did not work on, like MLK Day. To get ahead of that, when discussing the new holiday hours with my supervisor last month, I let him know that to keep things simple for myself, I would just be taking holiday PTO on the same days that the offices are closed and that everybody used to have off for. However, because things are a bit busy this week with a bunch of applications we are processing, my boss and another coworker are working on Monday and he seems to have forgotten that I had already sent in my PTO request for MLK Day. When I reminded him, he seemed stressed that I won’t be working on Monday. I’m worried that now I don’t seem like a team player, but I also told him I would be out of the office well in advance, and I thought that the point of flexible holiday hours was to use them to observe the holidays in the manner that you want to? Is this something I should bring up in our next one on one meeting?

    1. Jay*

      If he says something to you directly, then you might bring it up in your 1:1 as a question about planning for the future: “You were concerned that took PTO for MLK day. I thought I’d arranged that far enough in advance. Would you like me to do something differently next time?”

      If he seems upset or is otherwise giving you indirect messages, I’d try to ignore them. You’ve done nothing wrong, you’re totally entitled to that day off, you requested it appropriately.

      Is in the habit of expecting you to guess what he wants without direct communication?

    2. Satisfactory Worker*

      My boss always forgets when I request time off, which I always do via email so there is a record, and gets salty about it every time. I’ve pretty much learned to ignore it. If your boss doesn’t want you to take time off, they should deny your request.

      1. Neosmom*

        Once I receive paid leave approval, I place it on my calendar AND on my supervisors’ calendars. If I had a boss like yours, I would also include in that calendar appointment their email transmission approving the time off.

    3. PollyQ*

      If he hasn’t actually asked you to work on Monday or said anything generally about your PTO use, then I’d just ignore it. Just because he seems stressed doesn’t mean he’s thinking anything negative about you. He may just be stressed about the work.

    4. AnotherLibrarian*

      As someone who occasionally forgets when her staff have requested PTO (especially if it’s months out), I wouldn’t take it personally. It’s probably just that they forgot. I’d follow up if it comes up again, but this doesn’t sound like an issue unless you think they’ll be punitive about it. Maybe a shared calendar would help clear up any confusion in the future if this is a new policy.

  33. Anti anti-tattoo Carol*

    TLDR: helping an isolated new employee

    I have a new employee who is (like we all are!) isolated due to COVID-19. They moved to the area from a different state. They have mentioned that they are alone and don’t have friends up here because the traditional avenues are closed. I *don’t* think bosses should play social directors. I’ve already helped them form professional connections both in the office and in the area, and found a few virtual, work-sponsored affinity groups that they might like. Is there anything else I should be doing to make them feel at home? I don’t want to cross any boundaries, but I do want them to feel good about their environment.

    1. Firecat*

      I think you should be looking for ways to increase socialization amongst the team. Schedule a paid social hour every once in an while, etc. That helps this employee without you oddly getting into their personal life.

    2. OtterB*

      Are there any resources they might not be aware of, say a county recreation department or a local arts center, or something? It’s not your job to line up activities for them, but introducing them to possibilities seems like an introduction to the area, a substitute for the water cooler discussions about what people did over the weekend or what cool activity is coming up.

    3. Toxic Workplace Survivor*

      I try to let newer employees know some go-to people they can ask. I’m happy to be available but no one wants to ask their boss every single time. So I will say “Fergus is great at connecting you with others in the company because he has worked in a few different departments, and Jane is always good for a chat if you need to blow off steam.” You can also suggest to some of the other people on your team that THEY reach out to the new employees, especially after the first month or two when it’s easy to assume the new employee has a lot of their initial stuff figured out. If they are chatting more often with their colleagues it helps them to feel part of the team and also lets them have some more casual interactions.

      I try to remember that relationships are best when they are a bit organic and no matter how much help I can give, it’s the multiple points of contact that will help most. So definitely encourage more social team members to check in. Or a weekly “meeting” where there’s 20 minutes to discuss what people have been watching, listening to, etc.? You could delegate that too if you didn’t want to join yourself.

    4. Stephanie*

      A work friend introduced me to a coworker of his who was in a similar boat (he asked first before he did the intro) and lived nearby. May be a little different as they were peers and he wasn’t her boss. We also were able to meet up to walk when the weather was a bit more pleasant.

      I think what you’re doing is fine. It’s tough right now, unfortunately. Everyone’s Zoomed out, but you could schedule some happy hour or get together (might help to have an activity, so it’s not just everyone staring at each other on the screen). Might help your employee establish more rapport with the team (and I’d be a little more comfortable asking my peer rather than my boss for ideas).

  34. lapgiraffe*

    Has anyone here used Lunchclub? Any thoughts on it? A professional acquaintance gave me a login a few months back and I did it once, but the actual meeting was a lot for me and I haven’t had the nerve to do it again. I’m not usually afraid to talk to new people, quite the contrary in fact and I miss meeting strangers at bars and coffee shops and receptions, and coming away having learned something interesting about someone or even make a new connection in the process.

    But my one call was with someone who was in a very different place career-wise, and I think also looking for very different things than me (genuine curiosity for me v new startups to invest in/someone who could help him in some way for him) and he was so passive and awkward that my cruise director side went into full effect trying to steer the conversation and keep it going, it was exhausting! He gave me one useful bit of information but not so useful that I’d say the call was a success. I haven’t done another one because it just seems like the world’s worst blind date after that initial experience.

    1. AwkwardTurtle*

      I’ve used it a few times and it’s hit or miss. I luckily matched with a very helpful person my second time who was also very friendly and drove most of the conversation. The third time the other person didn’t even show up :/
      I may try again once my schedule frees up but at this point it’s a pretty low investment commitment for me.

    2. SnapCrackleStop*

      I’ve never heard of it before, but am now very intrigued. I’m terrible at texting, so some of the other networking apps haven’t gone well for me, but video chat would be lower stress for me. I’m keeping an eye out on this thread for those who have tried it.

    1. Joan Rivers*

      Congratulations. It’s interesting to speculate if toxic boss will find the next job less conducive to them being toxic. What happens when a toxic boss meets a MORE TOXIC BOSS?

  36. Anonymous for this one*

    Has anyone else seen that Progressive Insurance commercial where the life coach is helping people to not turn into their parents when they buy a house by teaching them, among other things, how to correctly pronounce quinoa. One woman pronounces it “Wakeen,” and I think of this group every time I hear it.

    3. Chicken Gumbo Soup*

      Love those commercials. “The waiter doesn’t need to know your name.” “Your couch has too many throw pillows.”

      1. NotQuiteAnonForThis*

        My husband looks at me deadpan during that one and says “see?”.

        We both wind up cackling every single time!

      1. Anonymous for this one*

        Yeah, my husband didn’t understand why I cracked up at “Wakeen.” It was hard to explain it to him.

    8. Choggy*

      My husband has adopted the term “we all see it, we all see it” from this commercial when I have done something he wants me to address (all in good fun, I do the same back!). :)

    10. Bea*

      I laughed so hard when I heard that! Made me wonder if the writer reads this blog.

      I like the blue hair one too.

  37. Tacocat*

    I started a new job this week. Training and onboarding has been a complete cluster. It’s a huge raise and promotion from my old job but I have enormous buyers remorse right now. I miss the familiarity at my old job where I was always the go to. Even more I miss my old coworkers terribly and feel really sad. I’ll be permanently remote in this role and while I like remote work, I feel a sense of loss at not going back to an office post Covid.

    I know this is normal. It just feels so supremely
    sad right now. Does anyone have any works of wisdom? How long did it take you to adapt to a new role? I was at former job for six years, and it was at that time a new industry to me so I’m familiar with not knowing which way is up, but this feels worse somehow because I know enough to feel overwhelmed!

    1. Enigma Alpaca*

      I have been through this a couple of times: once was leaving a small, close-knit office for a big organization and then about 2 years ago I left a midlevel position at a big organization where I was well-liked to be a Senior person at a tiny company. It’s ok to be sad–change is hard, especially during a pandemic. I usually find it takes about 6 months to adjust to a new role/org. You can still be friends with your old coworkers, though you may want to take a bit of a break from contacting them while the transition is still so new.

    2. AnotherLibrarian*

      I’ve been struggling with this. I was less then a year into my new job when the pandemic struck. I still feel lost a lot, but I try to remind myself that it took 3 years to feel comfortable in my old job and so it will likely take the same time here. It’s hard though! I feel you.

  38. Anonollama*

    Reposting since I posted too late last weekend.

    Tl;dr- How do I best update my resume to reflect my current job if I am on a medical leave?

    So I wrote in a while back about requesting accommodation to work from home from my workplace who was being COVID-unsafe. I was struggling with mental health repercussions of trying to work in this hazardous and gaslighting environment. Earlier in the year we had been sent an all office email that said any requests to work from home would be evaluated on an individual basis, but they implied they would try to be flexible (things like needing to wfh because of no childcare were mentioned). However when I submitted a doctor’s note, the response from top management was to immediately respond by claiming my position cannot currently be completed remotely because we are an essential service (logic fail). This is the exact same position that I did remotely- and successfully- for 3 months earlier this year. Since I do about 90% of my work electronically, either via database or email, where I sit to do the work makes negligible difference in output. We are networked and have remote connectivity so I can print something on the office printers from my home work station. So basically they just don’t care enough to do the minimal arrangements necessary to make it work. I might be able to request the decision be appealed but I don’t have much confidence in my employer suddenly having a crisis of conscience. So now I’m looking at a future of being on unpaid leave, getting some government support, and, once I’m a bit recovered, starting the job search process.

    Okay, long update, but I do have an actual question: When I update my resume how would I write this current job’s duration? If I end up being on leave for a few months, do I still show it as currently employed (since technically I haven’t left the job yet)? Do I indicate the leave somehow? Thanks.

    1. Reba*

      I think if you are on leave, you are still employed. Once your leave ends and your employment ends, put the end date. Changing jobs during the pandemic is not really going to require much explanation!

      I don’t think you need to indicate leave on your resume but it might make sense to share at some point in the interview process, in case they go to verify employment dates with your current company, you want to make sure that the information is aligned.

      Good luck!

  39. No Longer Gig-less Data Analyst*

    Personally, I have always responded with aggressive cheerfulness, because it tends to drive these people nuts when their dig goes completely unacknowledged. They are looking for a reaction that indicates they’ve hurt or wounded you, which I joyfully refuse to give them.

    “Oh, you’ve made it 6 months in the position.”
    “Sure have! I’ve learned so much in such a short time, and have gotten wonderful feedback so far from [boss]. It’s a great feeling to know I’m doing so well this early on.”

    “I thought that you had left because you found a really cool job somewhere else.”
    “What could be cooler than this? I’m so happy in this position and glad that [boss] agrees it was a great fit!”

    I have successfully driven some Negative Nancys absolutely bonkers with this approach.

  40. Lunch Philosopher*

    Context: I work/live in DC, for a nonprofit that is progressive politics-adjacent, we have multiple offices across the country but are predominantly located in DC.

    Have y’all heard anything from your organizations about … well, everything that has happened over the last few weeks and how it has affected morale?

    My organization has said nothing, has expected work as usual, and it’s really adding to my anxiety about my already excessive workload.

    1. Jay*

      I work for a national organization and we provide services in the home, so we’re always on the road. The state capital is in our territory. National leadership sent out an Email yesterday urging everyone to do telephonic visits on Inauguration Day and in our team meeting this morning our boss made that a requirement. He didn’t say anything about his own opinions – quoted the FBI risk assessment.

      We are in the midst of a long-planned series of DEI trainings, some of which focus on trauma-informed practice, so we’ve had space to discuss our personal responses if we want to.

      I can’t imagine being in DC and not even acknowledging what was going on, especially in an org that is identifiably progressive. My sympathy and gentle hugs if you want them.

      1. Lunch Philosopher*

        Thanks–I realized that many of our partners issued statements to their employees and also, at minimum, didn’t expect business as usual, or at maximum, shut down operations.

        I could write a dissertation on the toxicity of my workplace. I’ve been having daily crying sessions for about a week now.

        1. Agatha Harkness*

          I also work for a self-proclaimed “progressive” nonprofit. Said nothing day of, except to confirm our DC colleagues were all safe and accounted for. Didn’t condemn the actions until two days later and called it “an appalling assault,” but said nothing in regards to racism displayed (while ironically last summer taking a stance on racism and doing several D&I talks since). Also should note that while all of this was happening on the 6th, I was getting emails and calls like it was a normal day.

          I had to take that Thursday (1/7) off because it became very clear to me that they would never take a stance (even internally) because none of this affects them, and they will never understand. Anything they would say or do would be performative.

          I’m sorry your workplace isn’t being supportive. I hope you’re taking care of yourself!

    2. Firecat*

      My work sent out a weird email, that missed most of the American employees ironnically, inviting us to an open mic gripe fest. I passed. I’m not in a headspace to speak about this at work. I’m too mad about it all.

      Today we got an alert, which I thought was nice, about situational awareness and the importance of staying home when in doubt. I liked that they basically spelled out that if you feel unsafe it’s best to stay home. How that will shake out in practice though … who knows.

    3. Lyudie*

      I work in a software company, we have been getting weekly emails from the CEO for the last several months and there was a statement in last week’s about the riot in DC…he’s a pretty reserved guy for the most part and it was not an impassioned statement, but he was pretty clearly upset by it and called it shameful. It was nice to hear that from him. Otherwise I have not heard or seen anything officially about it.

      1. Lyudie*

        Oh, and facilities are sending messages to the larger sites that there will be extra security on site in the event of any protests/riots during inauguration.

        1. Lunch Philosopher*

          Good to hear that they are taking security seriously–i would say 80% of employees at my job live in DC or in the suburbs in Virginia and Maryland. We were just expected to continue work as usual–I had calls with people across the country in the days after the riot at the capital and they expressed more concern for me being on the call/living in DC during this insanity than management at my org did.

          all of this is just… *cue “this is fine” dog meme*

          1. Lyudie*

            Ugh that’s so frustrating. :( I was a bit surprised my site got the message about security…we are in a state capital, but not close to the downtown area so it seems unlikely anything would happen around the building anyway.

    4. Susie*

      I work in a large urban school district and have heard something from every level of the organization. Teachers stayed up most of the night planning lessons and teachers who typically don’t allow space for world events in their classes (ie. math) did in this case. We’re teachers so we’re a pretty demoralized bunch in general, and especially right now. However, I think the teachers felt really good about being able to provide a space for reflection and discussion. The discussions I saw at the middle and high school level were amazing and give me so much hope.

      While I’m not near DC, I’m in my state’s capitol. I do not think it would be unreasonable to ask (demand?) your supervisor for about safety plans for next week or even if you could take the day off, especially if you are going into an office.

      1. Lunch Philosopher*

        Thanks for this–our office finally let us know that we will be closed on wednesday next week. Luckily we all work from home but there hasn’t been any recognition internally of the absolute chaos going on.

        It’s good to hear that you have hope about how middle and high schoolers are talking about the riots and everything else. I can’t imagine having to work with kids through all of 2020 (and now 2021’s) turns and tumbles. Much props to you!

    5. JustaTech*

      I work in biotech, with a couple of sites around the country and our CEO/management has said *nothing*. I happened to be on a semi-social call with the CEO the day after and nope, nothing.

      Heck, two of my coworkers were sent to Baltimore to troubleshoot a vendor (bad enough in COVID) and ended up flying both ways with rioters and none of the more senior people have said anything, formally or informally about how that must have been scary or anything.

      Like, when I was in the lab my boss and I talked about it, but as peers, not as anything from on high.

      But honestly I wouldn’t have expected anything from this set of management.

    6. M_Lynn*

      I live/work in DC but for the gov in a office doing work related to democracy, so the Wed events are kind of a direct assault on our values and priorities. My office has sent our multiple emails affirming that our priority is staff safety and wellbeing, and encouraging all supervisors to be understanding if we’re distracted or less productive than normal, especially given the pandemic that is already affecting us. My own supervisor has been incredibly supportive of our emotional reactions to this. I’m really lucky.

    7. Mimmy*

      I work for a state government agency. Our physical facility isn’t near the state capital and we’ve been entirely remote anyway due to COVID, so our direct supervisor hasn’t discussed it. However, many state offices are in the state capital; thus, they sent out an alert to all state employees today saying that all offices in the capital are closed this weekend and on Inauguration Day. Um…what about Monday and Tuesday?? (not that it matters to me; I just thought it was strange).

    8. Stephanie*

      I work for a large automaker and we got a milquetoast statement from the CEO and Board Chair condemning the attacks and reaffirming the election results. They also promised to review their political donations and suspend all donations for the time being. They put the statement on the internal homepage and some of the comments…wow.

      At the working level, not really. One boss and I talked about it, but not at length. Everyone else has just not talked about it.

  41. Forget What Name I Used Before*

    So this week my Large State University assigned everyone* a training on Managing Bias, which included as an example ‘a company cuts a public transit subsidy primarily used by low-income employees and employees of color’ and clarified that even though the rationale for the change was solely cost-cutting, it’s still an instance of bias because of its disproportionate effect…

    …after spending months pushing for mandatory furloughs and salary reductions that disproportionately affect low-income employees and employees of color.

    I know the Board of Trustees doesn’t write the HR trainings, but I am FUMING.

    *It turned out it wasn’t intended to be mandatory and there was some kind of mixup in switching the external hosting provider, but that email didn’t go out until a few days later.

    1. JustaTech*

      Ah, the old talk-the-talk but can’t walk-the-walk.

      This came up in a “culture” meeting we had at my work last week, one senior guy kept saying “you have to show you mean it for the culture to be real” and the CEO kept nodding and saying “yes, exactly”. We haven’t had bias training. Heck, we haven’t had sexual harassment training in like 5 years.

      Do they know we can see how little they care?

    2. Pippa K*

      Coincidentally, I just did my university’s bias and harassment training. It emphasised repeatedly that “we all have biases, but that doesn’t make us bad people,” which I’m sure will be comforting news to some of the bigots I’ve had to work with. It also instructed that when our colleagues engage in bias or harassment, we should respond with gentleness and empathy. We should ask them questions, but apparently only questions like “gosh, isn’t that something that was covered in our anti-bias training?” and not “so, Bob, when are you going to stop asking sexist questions in hiring meetings?”

      I’d say it was a waste of time but I’m sure it accomplished the real goal of helping the university defend itself against lawsuits.

      1. Pippa K*

        Sorry, Forget What Name, meant to say I share my experience in sympathy – the empty rhetoric at odds with actual policy really does get old. Good luck with the furloughs etc.

  42. Alison*

    Short Version: I’m a middle manager. My direct support told me he is planning on moving across the country and is looking for a new job but has no real time line yet. His position has been grant funded and we are starting fundraising again to keep him/the position. I feel bad keeping my manager and executive director in the dark about this as we try to fundraise and figure out staffing for the field season (may-nov). I feel like my direct report has put me in a really akward place. Should I do anything?

    Longer version: my direct report moved here from across the country in July 2019 for a 2 year grant funded position with the expectation that through additional fundraising efforts the position would continue past the two years. He was living here for 8 months before the pandemic started. He lives alone far away from anyone he knows except coworkers.

    He has been a good employee, better at some parts of his job than others. He’s very young and has had to learn a lot of office norms in this position since most other jobs were in the field and were short terms 1 year or less than 1 year contracts.

    My supervisor told me back in Aug we didn’t recieve anther grant for his position and said she wasn’t supposed to tell me but wanted me to know. Said the executive director (ED) would bring it up with us soon to discuss the position and fundraising. It still hasn’t happened. I have been increasingly talking to my manager about how we need to address this asap and she says she has talked to the ED a few times and ED keeps putting it off but she does want to fundraise to keep the position for “some length of time” and definitely through the field season (which would mean finding funding only for july -nov since current funding runs out at the end of june).

    I recently asked direct report how he was feeling about the job during a routine check in and we got to talking about how the 2 years is coming to an end. He was comfortable talking about it and was kind of like I know the two years is almost over, I know you want to fundraise for it to keep the position, but if there wasn’t funding I would be ok (definite paraphrase here). He also mentioned his gf who has been long distance for 1.5 years is moving back to the state they lived in together before he came here. He told me he had no immediate plans to leave. That was a week ago.

    Yesterday I woke up to an email asking if I would be a reference on jobs he’s applying to and apartments he’s renting (they’re trying to varify employment and income…which he wouldn’t have from us if he moved). Without much explaination. After talking with him yesterday it seems within the last few days he has decided he definitely wants to leave and move back to this other state with his girlfriend. She is moving asap, hence the ask about apartments.

    I feel I’m now in an akward position of knowing he’s looking for other jobs but he has no definite timeline for leaving. I feel like knowing his situation might change my ED’s desire to fundraise for the project. We might decide we wanted to make it a seasonal position rather than full time, or change the work duties, or not have a position at all if this person isn’t in it. It’s a pandemic, budgets are tight, hiring takes awhile and we are a non-profit. I can just see this information rapidly changing the outcome.

    However direct report has asked me to keep quiet about it for now. I think he hopes to find a job soon but we all know the job market is bad now. The worst outcome would be that we put a load of effort into fundraising because ED wants to keep direct report in this position (because he has been so good at it) and then direct report leaves mid-season and we have to hire someone for only 4 months to finish it out, or are just left with no one to fill the position and the work is shifted to others who are already over worked (direct report runs a specific program so it is possible to decide not to do it before the beginning of the season, more difficult if we are in the middle of it).

    I don’t want to give my direct report away since he asked me not to. Honestly I wish he hadn’t told me so I wouldn’t be in this position. I’m disappointed in our ED that we haven’t already had the conversation about the future of the program (I suspect she has talked with other senior leadership, but not me yet). I’m concerned what is going to happen with staffing. Basically I want to know if there is anything I should do or if I should just let it ride and hope direct report gets a new job quickly so this can be addressed before the start of the field season.

    Anyone have any thoughts? Am I right to just keep quiet?

    1. Weekend Please*

      Can you talk to your direct report again and ask him if he would even want the position if you get funding for it or if he definitely wants to move back? It sounds like he wants to move but isn’t sure of the timing. That is definitely something that you can clarify with him. Is there any possibility of hiring him into another position temporarily after the two years are up that would be less disruptive when he leaves?

      1. Alison*

        He definitely wants to move. I think he hopes to move soon but wants to find a job first. We talked about how it would be really disruptive for him to leave in June vs earlier and he fully acknowledges that. But the job market is what it is so who knows how long it will take for him to find something. He did mention maybe he should just pick a date to be done at our company and move with or without a job. I told him I wasn’t going to make him do that (like force him out) and that moving without a job lined up was his decision to make (personally, I don’t think it’s a bad idea since he will be paying rent on two apartments (!!!) until he moves and I think it would be easier to get a job if you’re already in the state but I don’t want to tell him what to do in regards to these personal decisions).

        I highly doubt that we could move him to another position because our budget is so tight but even if we could I wouldn’t know that unless he tells the higher ups what his situation is.

        Basically I feel like he included me in this conversation at the wrong time based on his previous experiences with jobs that have a firm end date. This is the first time he has had a job without a hard end date and I don’t think he knows that telling me puts both of us in a weird position.

        1. The teapots are on fire*

          But this is a job with an indenture end date. It’s not at all a secure job and it’s not weird for him to be done with it. Having people look for and find another job when you might still get funding for them and decide they don’t want this job or this tenuous situation anymore is one of the drawbacks of operating with grant-funded positions. You have a little heads-up so you can quietly make sure you’re ready for a decent turnover, and that’s maybe decent of him, because he didn’t have to trust you with that information.

    2. Rachel in NYC*

      I think there are 2 options here

      (1) Direct Report is job hunting because as far as he knows his two years are almost up so he needs a job and they don’t grow on trees so this is normal behavior and you ignore it

      or

      (2) suggest to your boss that Direct Report is going to need to start making plans for after his term shortly so it would be wise to speak to him about possibly extending his term; what it would look like; when Direct Report would need to know; etc…

      1. Alison*

        Yup, I have told my manager suggestion two. Our ED is dragging her feet and I don’t know why (could be anything form being busy/overwhelmed to knowing we aren’t going to fund. I don’t know). At this point Direct Report has made the decision not to stay before they were able to offer him a longer term but they don’t know that.

        As for one, I agree this is normal behavior and in fact I think our ED has acted badly by not addressing if she wants to extend his term yet and how we will fund it. It has always been her intention to keep the position open as far as I know from what she has said to me so I don’t think she is looking at it like a 2 year job and is likely not thinking about it from Direct Reports perspective.

        I just wish he hadn’t told me that he’s looking at the beginning of his job search so that I wouldn’t have to stew about our staffing concerns for potentially months.

  43. LQ*

    I’d like to take a minute to write a little ode to people who respond and say they are done with something they’ve been asked to do. I know not everyone likes the “clutter” in the email, but it is so nice when I’m trying to review outstanding items to know that this person saw this message, addressed the issue, finished it. When I go through to clean up my own emails I’ll often find that I assigned a task out, someone responded as done, so I can close it. If I assigned it out and I haven’t heard back I have to check and follow up to see if it was completed or not. Most of the time I just go dig into the issue to see if it was done because otherwise I’d have to wait for that person to respond. So having that “Done!” is such a nice thing. Closed and put away. This is especially helpful if there is another step in the process, it has to be given to someone else, or passed along. I see 3 dones, well now I only have to check with the 4th person to ask them why it’s been 3 months and the thing hasn’t been done yet. So thank you, all of you who send “Done!” so that I can hunt down the real culprit who decided to not do their job because the pandemic is over and we don’t need support anymore.

  44. merp*

    Oof, I need some advice/clarity about a bad manager.

    Backstory: I work at a library which has partially reopened to the public for Immutable Reasons. I’m on the public service team and we have tried many times and many ways to advocate for changes for our safety and there are 2 roadblocks: a library director who defers to our division director (lower than her, in charge of our specific area) and a division director who is defensive, insulted that we are concerned, and seems to think that because she feels safe (in her private office, not working with the public) we should feel safe as well. Another piece of this is that we are very close to a state capitol building. We’re all pretty on edge about next week, and while most of the week has been blocked off from having patrons, we are still expected to come in (despite working quite effectively from home!) and there are patrons scheduled to come in the day before the inauguration.

    So the specific piece that I am seeking clarity on is this: we sent an email to our division director, asking that since all Tuesday patrons are coming in the morning, we can block off appts for the afternoon and potentially work from home instead. We got back a reply that just said “No.” This person has gotten on a bit of a soapbox before about how managers don’t need to explain anything to their staff and actually we should have some sympathy for them as the people expected to make decisions, but this response still blew my mind a bit. It’s just not how anyone communicates in our office.

    I suppose I’m asking if I’m seeing things clearly that this is a pretty unacceptable way to communicate? Our library director has seen her defensive behavior in action during the safety meetings and the whispered gossip says she has already been through extra comms training in the past, so I guess there is nothing significant they are willing to do, really, but how do I handle this? Is it worth expressing concern in a different direction at all? We have been asked to take extra precautions about materials (making sure they are safe in the stacks, etc) in case Something Bad happens next week but our concerns about our personal safety were completely dismissed.

    1. Student Affairs Sally*

      Yeah that’s ridiculous. If there are valid reasons that your suggestions isn’t workable, she should share those with you, not just dismiss your concerns.

      I don’t know if this information will help or hurt, but based on what I’m reading on CNN and other reputable sources, it sounds like the 17th (this Sunday) and inauguration day itself is when there’s the most “chatter” about other events happening, so Tuesday will hopefully be uneventful. Are you open on Sundays and Wednesdays? If so, I would try to work from home those days (and if WFH is not possible, I would use PTO) if you’re near the capitol building. I live in the capital city of my state and will be completely avoiding downtown until after the inauguration.

      Good luck!

    2. Reba*

      Not knowing the context and your relationship with the director, I feel that this is definitely something to take to her — especially if you can convey that you and you colleagues as a group are unsettled by the lack of clear communication about a safety plan from your leadership, as well as the sense that division head is not open to your input about safety (forwarding the “no” seems aggressive, but idk). You can point out what you did here, that there was planning for the collections handling but not for physical safety for the staff. This is serious! Best wishes.

    3. AnotherLibrarian*

      If I were the director, I would want to know this was happening. People think directors “see all”, but one of the reasons they differ to department heads is that those people know their people and their work. However, it also means issues like this can slip by without being noticed. IF you trust your director and IF you feel confident that they would be supportive, I would try it. But only you know the situation and only you can assess the politcal risk vs reward.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      Board member here.

      Your library should have policies on file for all to read. Check you work place violence policy, a well written policy includes instructions on what to do if you need to report something. In this case you want to know what is the plan to keep employees safe next week. A well written plan should include how to contact the designated safety officer for your library. Here the contact people are board members. If you can find contact information in writing then I think you should go ahead contact that person and ask what the safety plan is here.

      As an employee I believe NO job is worth dying for OR being injured for. If I sincerely believe my life and well-being are at stake, I am no longer worried about losing my job. I’ll worry about keeping the job once the crisis has passed.

      As a board member I would be outraged that this crap is going on. I have been an employee for too long, as a board member, I would push for this library director to move on to her next job.

    5. Anono-me*

      Has anyone contacted the state Capitol security team to see what they recommend? They may not want you open.

      I would be surprised if you many patrons Tuesday afternoon. Has anyone brought up the point that staying open Tuesday afternoon is probably not an effective use of library resources?

      I hope that you are able to feel and be safe during this chaotic time.

  45. Can't Sit Still*

    Is there a good solution for a cat that wants to be in my small workspace in the kitchen? I don’t think there’s room for a cat bed and apparently the cat tree a foot and a half away isn’t close enough. He’s very cute, but he’s started shoving his face into the camera as well, which is hilarious but disruptive. He doesn’t want to sit on my lap or be held, either. I might be able to wedge some kind of shelf over…something? Help?

    1. Buni*

      If you have room for smth as small as a shoebox (and presuming he fits in a shoebox…) wedge a shoebox in with a blanket / cushion as close to you as possible. I’ve yet to meet a cat could resist a box.

    2. I'm A Little Teapot*

      Just put him down, then don’t provide extra attention. Any attention is better than no attention. Do make sure you’re providing love and play time at other times though. He’ll eventually figure out the expectations.

    3. Lyudie*

      If you’re near a window, there are cat beds that attach with suction cups (note that if your kitty is a chonk, this might not work, I am not sure how much weight those support!)

    4. JustaTech*

      If it’s cold where you live I have found that a cat heating pad (doesn’t get nearly as hot as a heating pad for humans) is an amazing cat trap. My cat hardly ever leaves her heated pad (unless I am in a meeting and then she wants to know why I am talking but not to her).

      1. AnotherLibrarian*

        I use a heated blanket for a similar purpose. A little spray on cat nip, a little warmth and my cat is happy to be on the floor next to my chair rather than sitting on my computer keyboard.

    6. Another JD*

      No. Move whatever you have to to make a designated spot next to you. A non-working laptop is a great decoy. My husband has a blanket bed for our boy, who his office has name Chairman Meow.

    7. Delta Delta*

      I sit very far forward in my chair, which leaves a gap between my back and the chair back. The gap is the perfect size for one of my cats, who frequently hangs out there while I’m working.

  46. Student Affairs Sally*

    I’m still getting acclimated in a new role (it’s been about a month of actually working there since we had two weeks off for the holidays) and for the most part I’m happy with the switch from my last job. But this week I have found myself missing something unexpected from the old job (unexpected because I didn’t expect to miss it, but also because I didn’t expect to be in this situation) – my former boss and colleagues were all very politically-minded and active, and although we didn’t discuss politics exhaustively, I know my former boss would have made space in at least one meeting over the past week for all of us to discuss our reactions and fears and anxieties after the riot, as well as how we can support students in their fears and anxieties. We certainly did over the summer during the BLM protests. I don’t mean this in the obsessive, unhealthy way that we sometimes read about on AAM, and with the freedom for anyone to bow out of that conversation if they aren’t comfortable with it. Since I work in education & student support, these types of events have ramifications for the work we do since it can have a major impact on our students.

    My new colleagues seem like they’re generally left-leaning but don’t really talk about politics at all. I had a check in with my new boss on the 7th and when she asked how I was, I mentioned that I was emotionally exhausted from the day before and she said “oh no, why, what happened?” Being the newbie, especially with everyone remote, is already pretty isolating – not being able to engage with my colleagues over this incredibly stressful and scary time makes me feel even more isolated.

    1. AnotherLibrarian*

      I imagine this is rough and I am sorry. I think every-time we switch work, if we liked our team, there are surprising things we miss. These are scary times and it is odd that your boss was surprised that you might have been impacted, but I also think there can be a really strict no politics rule at many work places. I would never have felt comfortable with the sort of conversations you’re describing at your old job. It’s okay to miss it. It’s okay to feel weird about it, but it just might be the way your new job is. Is there a friend or someone else you can reach out to right now to relieve some of that isolation? I would look for that.

      1. academic librarian too*

        Chalk it up to corporate culture. I have experienced exactly this. I have learned to call up my former colleagues to engage and reflect. Your present environmental climate isn’t wrong, it is just different.

  47. cncx*

    i got catfished by an in house recruiter, and i didn’t immediately get wary because he was in house. You know how external recruiters will dangle a job carrot in front of you when it’s really just a touch base let me have your resume so i can say i cold called x people today?
    Last week i had for what was all intents and purposes a phone screen for about an hour with this in house dude, and he asked me to apply for a specific job up to and including advice on how to prepare my materials (cover letter, cv etc). I spend about six hours doing everything to his spec, send it to him directly, get a response from some girl in the same office and i was like ok fine, she might be running the show for this position, it’s fine. we go back and forth on salary where i quoted the salary i had discussed in the phone screen that he said was definitely within the low margin of their range for that position. It was a position whose clearly stated requirements were native fluency in two languages, and professional fluency in a third (which i have). This was discussed in the phone screen, the man knew my level in language three because we spoke in that language.
    Two days later i get a form rejection, without any further ado, because i didn’t have a native level in the third language. I would NEVER have applied for a job with native for that language clearly stated. so either it was a catfish OR she was making something up to soften the blow of rejection or whatever, but it doesn’t soften the blow getting rejected for something that i thought had already been made clear with the first call i had.

    I thought about going back to the first dude and saying “wow it was really nice talking to you. if further positions come up in your company, how can i assess what the dealbreakers are if they aren’t in the ad?” but like that’s petty. My gut says just leave it and never apply for anything at the company again and tell my network why, but part of me wonders if there is any use in going back to him. I am only casually looking and would not have put the work i put into that application to tick the monthly quota box of someone in HR and i feel really used. Is there any use in saying anything at all if i won’t work there in a million years now?

    1. Asenath*

      I’d be strongly tempted to reply with something like “Thank you for considering my application. I would like to give you some feedback on your processes – perhaps you should be more careful in checking the language requirements in your job listings, since you initially requested “professional fluency” in language 3, when you actually required “native level”. This would reduce the inefficiencies for both you and your applicants in your process.”

      And then, I probably wouldn’t send the email. I’d just make a mental note to distrust any future information received from the in house recruiter, and tell myself that it’s not worth even more of my time to tell him how to do his job.

        1. pancakes*

          I think you could write something not-snarky and send it, considering how big the miscommunication seems to have been and how much of your time they wasted. Maybe something along the lines of, “I’m glad we connected about the such-and-such position, but a bit frustrated to have learned that native-level fluency in ______ is a must. Putting an application together took a significant amount of time, and I would not have done so had I known that. Was the listing changed after we spoke?”

          1. cncx*

            i like that wording a lot. I do think if it was a real posting for a real job and not a catfish that something must have changed after i spoke with the first dude. I slept on it and feel a lot better (thanks to a lot of the comments here) and think it was probably just a poor communication situation, and my application dossier was probably a practice dossier for the second woman, and a teaching moment gone bad for everyone involved.

    2. Joan Rivers*

      “get a response from some girl” —

      this is the second or third time today I’ve seen the word “GIRL” used, so far.
      WTH?

      And why is no one mentioning this? Is gender even relevant here?

    3. AspiringGardener*

      Yea, that’s not what catfishing means.

      It’s a recruiter being unclear in the job description/requirements.

      1. BuildMeUp*

        Yeah, I sympathize because this sounds really annoying, but cncx, I honestly think you are assuming negative motivation on the recruiter’s part that probably wasn’t there. This doesn’t even seem like a bait and switch, just a miscommunication that unfortunately wasted your time.

      2. cncx*

        i said that because i’m still not convinced an actual position was available. And if an actual job was available, an unstated requirement that would have made me self-select out of applying in the first place was a stupid reason to reject me.

    4. JustaTech*

      There probably isn’t any use in saying anything, but it’s super reasonable for you to be annoyed at the recruiter.

      I know why they hide some pieces of information from you, but really important and basic requirements shouldn’t be one of them. I had a recruiter contact me about an a job, I sent them my resume and got a very snippy email back saying I shouldn’t be applying to these kinds of jobs if I don’t have a nursing degree. Uh, I never said I did, and *you* contacted *me* and never said anything about any kind of licensing requirement.

      I don’t know why they’re so excited to waste everyone’s time.

      1. cncx*

        that was me! he contacted me! “so excited to waste everyone’s time” is IT.
        And following up with me after he encouraged me to waste my time, or at least having his colleague follow up , would have gone a long way in my opinion of their company. Heck had I a gotten a second interview and not got the job i would have liked the company more. But the way this played out…what is going on over there…

    5. PollyQ*

      It’s possible the recruiter wasn’t actually lying to you, though. 1a) He may have been working off what the hiring manager told him, and the qualifications changed. 1b) They found other candidates who did have native fluency in the language, and that’s why you were cut. If they hadn’t found those people, you might still have been in the running. It does sound like there was at minimum some poor communication in there.

      1. Annony*

        My guess is that it wasn’t a requirement but was considered preferable and they got enough applicants with it that they made it a requirement.

      2. cncx*

        i think that’s a really good explanation with the caveat…triple “native” fluency in three langauges is rare, and rare at jobs at this pay grade. People with that kind of fluency self select out in to law, teaching, linguistics, etc. and aren’t really in service jobs.

        Because people with multiple advanced language fluency are usually managers or professionals, usually what companies in these mid and lower level positions do is along the lines of what the HR dude made clear in the first call- for jobs like these, there is a language where native fluency is the dealbreaker and then where the other languages have to be good enough. Which is the only reason i applied.

        So having slept on it and being charitable my best guess is what you said is what really happened if a job was in fact available, and what Annony said below: if this was a real job, the qualifications changed, or the pool changed, or someone not him/other HR lady decided that the third language was the dealbreaker and the other two needed to be good enough, instead. It really should have been communicated better though, and a follow-up from the first dude would have gone a long way in my goodwill towards the company.

  48. Figgie*

    My spouse negotiated to be able to work remotely from a foreign country for 6 months of the year as a prelude to his retiring after a large, technical project is completed sometime in the last quarter of this year. He is the primary person who manages that kind of technical project and has the depth and breadth of information necessary to make it possible without having to pay an enormous amount of money to a different company, who while they could do it, wouldn’t know the company well enough to make it work well.

    So, most of my spouse’s time is taken up both preparing for this project and doing regular job stuff (most of which will disappear when the project is completed). It is enough to keep him as busy as he normally would be. However, his boss has been trying to push (technical) parts of his bosses job off onto my spouse, significantly increasing his workload and also forcing him to learn technological stuff that he has very little interest in.

    Also, his boss has been expecting my spouse to be available 24/7/365 to the point of demanding my cell phone number (which they didn’t get) to “improve access.” This has never been a job requirement and has more to do with his bosses anxiety issues then any real need to have continual access.

    What are the best ways to push back? I know that one option is that my spouse could just move up his retirement to 30 days from now, but that kind of feels like a nuclear option and he trusts all of your judgement here (people here helped him negotiate the remote work from another country) and so he wanted me to ask for some interim ways to push back and only invoking the “I’m out of here” if those don’t work.

    Thanks in advance!

    1. Monty & Millie's Mom*

      Can he just tell his boss that he cannot do those things the boss is trying to push on him, and also let him know he will not be available at certain times? Like, no work calls/emails/texts/etc will be responded to between the hours of x and y, because there’s no need for it. If boss continues to push and your husband stands firm and just does his job within the usual hours, what else can the boss do? I understand wanting to maintain a good relationship during the last months of a job, but it also sounds like your husband is willing to, if necessary, do the nuclear option of quitting, so if that’s the case, all he really needs to do is hold firm, do his job, refuse to do additional work that is not his responsibility, and that’s it. (It’s really simple, but I know it’s not EASY! Wishing him all the luck with this!)

    2. Not A Manager*

      If he’s willing to retire now if necessary, then he’s in the driver’s seat. I think he should just politely refuse to do unreasonable things. He can even cite his upcoming retirement as the reason. “I’m in this role primarily to complete Big Project. I’m happy to continue my usual duties in the meantime, but I can’t take on additional responsibilities.”

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Ooooow- this sounds like the Golden Handshake. Big Famous Household Name is well-know for its Golden Handshakes. This is where they make you miserable until you agree to retire early.

      I think he should get his retirement notification work all in order and ready to send. Then he should go into his boss and say, “I am not available 24/7/365. I can work on X and do my regular tasks. And that is plenty of work right there. If I am expected to learn new tech Y plus do all this extra work it is my preference to submit my retirement notification to HR. What can be done to reconfigure my workload so that it is manageable for me as just one person?”

      One of three things will happen:
      The boss will step back from his stance entirely and allow your husband to continue on. (no problem)

      The boss will lie and say that he will lighten your husband’s load and then not do it. (In which case, just submit the retirement notification once your hubs has tangible proof the boss lied. This would look like a return to the old 24/7/365 thing.)

      The boss will flat out say no he cannot adjust your husband’s work load. (your husband can submit his paper work immediately.)

      For your husband, I’d have to say, “Don’t fall into the trap of thinking this project is your baby and you would like to bring it to fruition. If you are thinking like this you probably have MORE commitment to the project than your company has to you. This will only lead to heartache and upset. Figure out what is the most important thing to you and let the other thing go.”

      If your husband is shaking his head at everything I have said so far, then my last idea is to find a neutral and trustworthy third party, preferably above his boss, and talk it over with them.

  49. Amber Rose*

    After being extremely upset last week, I did manage to get my job title changed. I’m not an assistant anymore (or at all, I don’t assist anyone, it was a ridiculous title). Our C level is more understanding of that kind of thing than my manager apparently.

    I’m trying to update my resume and although my title has changed umpteen times, particularly in the last year, I can divide the change of responsibilities into three distinct chunks, so I’m thinking I’ll just use the first two titles I had and then this most recent one and backdate it to when my job duties actually changed which was last April-ish. Does that sound reasonable? Or should I only date the title to last week and list the title I’ve been using since then as a fourth chunk even though the changes in my job are mostly cosmetic?

    1. Ali G*

      I have a former job where I also had a kazillion different titles. I used the current one and then 2 previous one’s that made the most sense/were most intuitive for others. I don’t use dates on the different titles, just for the job overall, since it’s impossible to check that anyway. Then I list the accomplishments under each one so it shows progression. It’s probably no where near 100% chronologically accurate, but it does accurately portray my time at that job.

  50. La La La La Lola*

    How long is it common to wait to hear back after a phone screen?

    I know things take time but it’s hard for me to stay excited when I’m told that they will schedule with me the following week and two weeks go by and crickets…

    It makes me feel like the role really isn’t a priority and coming from an environment now where I feel unvalued, I’m excited to move on, meet new people and tackle new challenges… radio silence dampens the enthusiasm… *sigh*

    Par for the course I guess? I am still looking of course but it’s hard when you feel like maybe you have found something that’s a good fit and it’s taking weeks and weeks to hear back at every step (it was the same to schedule the phone screen: I’ll reach out to people the week of ___ and it was 3 weeks later than that).

    1. Kimmy Schmidt*

      It might depend on your field, but two weeks isn’t all that long to me, especially in these crazy times. Someone could have been unexpectedly out sick for a week, the company had an urgent issue came up, or someone had the email waiting for their signature and just overlooked it.

    2. Can't Sit Still*

      Two weeks can go by really quickly when no one has time to interview because they’re putting out fires because they’re short staffed…but yes, it is frustrating.

    3. PollyQ*

      I think Alison’s standard advice on this is excellent: Assume you didn’t get the job and continue with your job search. Then if they do get back to you, it’ll be a pleasant surprise. I also think 2 weeks, especially when it’s right after holidays and when … certain events … have transpired, is not that long.

  51. Origami Crane*

    How do you stay motivated at work when you feel disillusioned with your job and there’s no room for growth?

    I’ve been at my current job for almost a year and a half and I’m struggling to bring myself to care about my work beyond doing the bare minimum to meet deadlines and keep my boss content. The work isn’t super challenging for me and there isn’t much room for growth in salary or responsibility for someone in my position. I haven’t learned anything new in almost a year and the work has started to feel monotonous. I’m also hoping to pivot to a related but different kind of work for my next job and I’m not sure how much the experience at this job will be valued by hiring managers in that subfield.

    On top of that, I’ve also come to believe that my department, especially the projects I’m involved in, aren’t effectively advancing the department’s mission. Despite this, my grandboss and other senior people in the department seem to be coasting along without any ambition to innovate or experiment (my immediate boss is actually very competent but he’s the exception that proved the rule).

    All this had made me feel very demotivated. I’m not concerned I’ll get the point where I’m failing to meet deadlines, but I just have no desire to go above and beyond and spend half the day on distractions (because I’ve gotten pretty efficient at my current tasks). Part of me worries I’ll be setting my career back by taking this attitude, or worse that I’ll carry it on to my next job but on the other hand caring less has made my situation less depressing.

    (Yes, I do want to find a new job eventually, but for various reasons it’ll probably be a 6 months to a year before I can start job searching.)

    1. Kiko*

      Think about what you can do in the meantime at work to buff up your resume. And work towards those things. That’s what helped me when I went through the same thing!

    2. lifesempossible*

      I feel this exact way in my current role. I’m on the way out from it, but if I could change things… I’d probably discuss with my boss methods to gain more skills, or see if I could get some kind of approval for more project(s). My small projects have been reorganizing employee files and reformat documents. I gained some skills the more efficient I got. Maybe think of what kind of role you’d like to see yourself in next, brainstorm what some essential tasks are for that new direction, and find ways to gain those skills. It could make a better cover letter/resume if you can give examples of “I’m tech-savvy enough to reformat our employee files.” Otherwise, I’d look into additional certification programs/courses you could take.

      Depends on your role and what you can afford, but sometimes cutting hours at the office or taking time off can alleviate the boredom.

      Good luck!

  52. Ask About Masks*

    What would you do if you suspected your coworkers’ use of face masks is putting themselves and others at risk?

    I have two coworkers who wear the masks when and how they are supposed to. The problem is that since the start of the pandemic, they’ve each worn the same cloth face mask Every. Single. Day. Both of the masks look like they haven’t been washed in months either.

    We all have well-paying jobs so being able to afford multiple masks isn’t an issue. One coworker thinks Covid is somewhat of a hoax, that it’s “just a flu” and that the media is inflating numbers to scare us. The other is just extremely cheap and doesn’t want to spend money on more than one mask.

    A third coworker has been wearing the same dirty, worn-out disposable mask for months and is constantly touching to adjust because it slides down her nose.

    Is it unreasonable that I’m bothered by these masks habits? Do I keep my mouth shut and just be glad they’re wearing a mask?

    1. Freaking Out*

      I had a similar problem at my office and asked my boss for a “mask stipend” for the office staff(about 30 people). She agreed that spending the money for the masks cost less than losing someone to a mild case of COVID for two weeks, and we bought the masks. Most people have their own cloth masks, and so do not use these, but they are handy to have available if some (a) forgets their mask, (b) ruins or otherwise damages or loses their mask, (c) cannot afford to replace them often, or (d) wants a cute new design free of charge! We even ordered them with designs on them (Christmas themed for last month, some cute floral prints or American flag designs, etc.) to make them more cute-sy. And on the box is a stick note saying, “Please do not re-wear disposable masks; take another! :)”

    2. Bear Shark*

      Not unreasonable that you’re bothered, but I don’t have any advice. I have coworkers who also wear the same cloth mask every day and have talked about how they only wash their mask every few weeks. It’s reflective in how seriously they’re taking other Covid precautions. At least one of those coworkers has been out with Covid now as well.

    3. RagingADHD*

      The primary risk is to themselves.

      It’s not unreasonable for this to gross you out, just like it’s reasonable to be disgusted by coworkers who don’t wash their hands after using the toilet.

      However, the poopy-hand people have always been with us. They are around us all the time, everywhere we go. And there is certainly a contingent of dirty-mask wearers everywhere we go.

      This is one of those things where you can only be in charge of yourself. You might ask your manager to require the person with the worn-out disposable to replace it. But there’s no way to enforce whether people do laundry at home.

      They may not wash their underwear, either, for all you know. As long as they don’t stink there’s not much your manager can do about it.

      1. tangerineRose*

        I thought the masks are more to protect others than ourselves, although there is some evidence that they’re somewhat helpful to protect ourselves.

        1. RagingADHD*

          A dirty mask is still going to keep their germs in, and do its job of protecting others.

          By not washing it, they are increasing their own risk of contracting it off the mask surface.

    4. JustaTech*

      There’s not much you can do directly, but you can always go the semi-passive direction of breathlessly sharing a story of a guy who got a fungal lung infection because he didn’t ever wash his mask, can you believe that anyone would be that dumb?! (A story I heard from my coworker, who heard it at her allergy clinic, utterly unverified.)

      The only other thing I can think is to just offer a fresh mask to the person who’s cheap and the one with the disposable mask. But they might take it badly, so know your audience.

    5. LGC*

      That is…horrifying. For both you and for your coworkers (like, can you imagine the SMELL?!)

      I’d just offer them new masks to start. At the most. And I’d also steer clear of them as much as possible. Although, because of the issues in not washing something that goes directly over your face for MONTHS, I…cannot imagine wearing the same face mask for months without washing it.

      It sucks. But it’s a little like having a smelly coworker (but yes, a lot higher stakes, and yes, you could DIE).

  53. Freaking Out*

    I was having a particularly difficult time last Friday, anticipating putting in my two weeks’ notice with a manipulative and hurtful boss who I knew would not take it well. I came to the Open Thread looking for advice, scripts, support, etc. The support that I received brought me to tears and empowered me to recognize that this whole situation was a large part of the reason I was leaving. So I took the step and put in my notice. It’s swung between bad and okay depending on the day, and the inital conversation was more of a berating and belittling session, but …I’m officially halfway through my notice period now and looking forward to starting my new job in 2 weeks! Thank you for the kind words and support!

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Good for you.
      My wise friend used to say we can see how much impact we have on others by how much reaction we get from them.

      So it looks like she feels you punched her in the gut? If it did not matter to her then she would not react. We don’t react to things that are of no never-mind to us.

      Get yourself a small instant reward. It could be an ice cream cone each day or a nice take home meal on Friday or something else. Think about a little treat for yourself to help pull yourself through this.

  54. Batgirl*

    Have any teachers had any success in making it easy for tech challenged students to submit work?
    The majority of students can join me in online lessons via Microsoft Teams, but genuinely struggle to get even small snatches of work back to me. Even when I say to write it on paper and email me a picture they’ve taken with their phone they get puzzled. Some are swinging the lead but others look like genuine queries.
    I’m not expecting essays. I just think that unless I sort this situation out, it’s going to demotivate them because no one sees their work. I’m close to dispensing with written tasks all together and just going with chat responses and Kahoots. I haven’t tried the latter yet but I already know they love Kahoot.

    1. Em*

      Have you tried PearDeck or NearPod? You can post a link in the chat and the kids can automatically get in.

      Both are interactive slide decks. On the teacher platform, you can see each student’s work as they are working (or not).

      I’ve also had kids hold work up to the computer camera and I take a screen shot. When I do that, it is more a compliance measure than getting data on whether or not they did the work accurately as the resolution is so bad.

    2. Claire (Scotland)*

      I’ve started setting Microsoft Forms as a way for them to write in their responses – create a form with the questions as prompts, with open text boxes for responses (or do multiple choice or whatever works best), then set that Form as the assignment. Then all they need to do is click on the Form to open it, fill it in as they work through the tasks, and then submit. I can share my screen on the Teams call and walk them through how to do that. It’s increased engagement significantly over asking them to write their work up in Word and submit it to the assignment.

    3. Flower necklace*

      I second Microsoft Forms. I work with a lot of tech-challenged students, and they can all figure out Microsoft Forms (the ones that are paying attention, anyways).

      I would also suggest Desmos. There’s a bit of a learning curve to learn how to use it, but I’ve found it’s handier than Nearpod. Nearpod will occasionally freeze up on my students, but that never happens with Desmos.

    4. Batgirl*

      All these ideas are great! I can’t wait to try peardeck and nearpod as I’ve never heard of them but the word “automatically” has me sold!
      Can Microsoft forms be used by students who only have mobile phones? It’s definitely true they’d rather fill in blanks than create a document from scratch…

      1. Flower necklace*

        Yes, for Microsoft Forms, there’s a way to preview what it looks like on a cell phone.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      Oh boy.
      Rural America here.
      Cells don’t work more often than not. Doing something quickly with a cell here can go into hours of work. It can take three days to get a voice mail and that’s IF we ever get it. (It’s a real friendship killer, I tell ya.)

      Same deal with internet connection. The cable company has already informed us that they have NO intention of ever giving everyone internet here. There’s no money in it.

      I know at my job I spend more time fighting with technology than I do working. I guess I would ask them what problems they are encountering.

      1. Batgirl*

        We have kids that can’t afford data or Wi-Fi or have no way to get an internet connection as well. We send them work packs out and call them on the phone when we get a minute. What could go wrong with that plan?!

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Ha!
          The mail runs late.
          Phone service sucks.
          Parents don’t support the kid.
          The roof is leaking.
          The dog had pups.
          omg.

    6. CatMintCat*

      We were only online briefly (six weeks) thank the good Lord, but I found I was willing to accept just about anything that indicated the child was alive and thinking. Bear in mind I teach first grade, so the kids are six and seven years old.
      1. Submitted on Google Classroom? Fine.
      2. Written on paper and photographed on Mum’s phone and emailed to me? Great.
      3. Written on paper and delivered to the school? Cool.
      4. Written in Mum’s handwriting and submitted any of the above ways? Not so cool, but whatevs.
      5. Photo of child dressed in nothing but underpants holding up the work? Woah, Mum, what were you thinking?

      I was very glad to go back to school.

  55. oof*

    When is it okay to leave a permanent FT job for a contract position?

    I currently work in non profit event planning, but would like to switch to digital marketing.

    I started my non profit event planning job in 2019, which was full time and had great benefits. However, due to COVID, I was furloughed for 6 months and then recently brought back on the team on a part time status. There might be a chance they will furlough me again, but I really don’t know. Given the instability of the hospitality and event planning sector, I decided to do a career switch and took a bootcamp course in digital marketing and completed a marketing internship during my furlough period.

    I am now interviewing for 2 marketing positions:
    1) permanent FT entry level position at a marketing agency with terribly low pay (even lower than my current entry level non profit job) and many many hours of overtime (not a lot of work life balance), but I would learn TONS about all sorts of things within marketing.
    2) FT 1 year contract with a large corporate company that pays more than the marketing agency and my current non profit role, but I would only learn about a very specific and niche marketing skill. But also, good work life balance.

    People always say “Don’t leave a permanent job for a contract role” but is it worth it to make the jump in my case, given that I am career switching and that my current job may not have stability?

    1. cosmicgorilla*

      I think it can make sense in your current situation. I wouldn’t advise it if you were staying in the same industry, but it makes more sense when career-switching. The contract role can help you springboard into other digital marketing roles. While I was at this contract job, I would join every employee organization I could and take advantage of every opportunity possible to participate on any special taskforces or teams to get my name out there. I’d do informational interviews where I could with folks inside the company. I’d also continue my education, do self-study on software packages or other bootcamps that might help me in other marketing roles.

    2. oof*

      I guess I’ll provide the salary info too:
      – current non profit job: 50K (when it was FT). ~30K (if the PT status continues for the whole year)
      – marketing agency job: 40K base + OT + potential bonus = $45K
      – 1 year contract job: 55K

      1. Firecat*

        Don’t forget as a contractor you won’t usually get benefits. I’d be sure to factor in the out of pocket cost. I know my insurance for work I pay only 180 month in premiums but the company pays 800 per month for me. I’d look at health insurance costs on the exchanges etc. to get a sense of what you will be paying for insurance before choosing to go contract over 10K

        1. Rachel in NYC*

          and I’d check the taxes. if as a contract, you will be 1099 and responsible for your own taxes that 55k is gonna be a lot different.

          1. oof*

            it’s actually a w-2 position – I would be considered an employee of the external recruiting agency, but working for the big corporate company. so, it’s not a 1099 independent contractor role where I’d have to pay taxes on my own.

    3. JAR*

      A job where you can get a broad knowledge of marketing is probably a better starting point for your new career (unless you are already sure you want to be in the niche that the other job is in), and it is permanent so hopefully you could get a solid two years in and then move onto something better. But it depends on whether you’re prepared to sacrifice income and work-life balance in the short term for longer term benefits.

  56. Allypopx*

    I have a performance review coming up on Tuesday, and as is routine my boss wants me to prepare accomplishments, challenges, and goals. I don’t want to go into it with a cloud of negativity over my head, but honestly this year has just been awful. Work from home was a really tough adjustment for me, I’ve been less than satisfied with my work in just about every area, my motivation has been in the toilet, as has my mental health…I really don’t feel like I’ve done anything noteworthy. My boss has been supportive and understanding of everyone this year, but I’m high up on a small staff and I know if I’m not thriving it affects everyone. Plus it’s my first year in a new role and I wish I could say I really flourished, but my most generous assessment is that I’ve done fine.

    I’m sure I’m not the only one dealing with this. Does anyone have any advice or encouragement on how to approach this review?

    1. Firecat*

      I’d dedicate 3 sentences to acknowledging the challenges of this year then talk about your accomplishments.

      Example:
      This was an extremely challenging year with civil unrest, a pandemic, switching to WFH suddenly, and Childcare/sharing an office with spouse/whatever was a specific challenge for you.

      Despite all that I was able to accomplish A, B, and C.
      Accomplishment details.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Accomplishments:
        I set up and grew a home base for continuing my work here at Widgets R Us.
        This included a new dedicated phone line/computer/workspace/other things.
        I over came X, Y and Z challenges with setting up and running the tech necessary for my work.
        My goal in WFH was to maintain a regular work schedule [despite other issues] and I did [or I mostly did, or I tried and am continuing to improve.]
        I was able to help [cohort/boss/other person] resolve some on-going challenges with X and Y.
        I completed A, B and C on time.
        I have made plans to improve my efforts on D, E and F. [Say this only if TRUE.]

  57. lifesempossible*

    I just need to rant about this, and feel free to tell me if I’m right to be upset or if I’m being too sensitive.

    I’ve been working as a receptionist for almost three years now. The actual duties are more akin to an admin assistant, as I help our AP, AR, HR, and purchasing departments. It’s pretty mindless, but I’m effective and I finish everything on time. I admit that I go on the internet during work, but it doesn’t prevent me from finishing everything in a timely manner. And if I legitimately finish everything, the only reward I get is to pick up more work from other people (who, every time I walk into their offices, are on their cell phones).

    As I was finishing my accounting degree in August, my boss and I went out to lunch and she asked about my career plans. I had asked if they would consider creating an accounting assistant role, and she said no. She was generally supportive and said they are flexible if I go do interviews. Just please not to leave in Feb-May when another team member goes out on maternity leave.

    I went through a depressive streak in the fall and failed to apply elsewhere. In early November, my boss sent an email saying that she intends to hire an admin/accounting assistant. She doesn’t ask me about it or mention that I asked about that exact role. That person has been hired and is in training. Being cross-trained for my role, too. She is less qualified for accounting assistance AND makes more than I do for things I already know how to do.

    I chose not to bring it up or apply because… well, honestly, I was upset that she was so willing to let me leave earlier in the year. They have made some judgement calls against me in the past (denying a referral bonus, I see the other hourly employees getting raises every 4-6 months, but I have to wait a year, even when I asked and offered to take on more responsibility). If they had wanted to me stay, I thought they could have created a role. There certainly is the work for it.

    Anyway, am I wrong to be salty? I know I have to admit some element of fault. But I do feel a bit wronged. I’m applying elsewhere now, and I don’t feel the slightest bit guilty.

    3. Firecat*

      I actually think you are being too sensitive unless there is context that is missing.

      From what’s written, in August you talked to your boss about a position that wasn’t posted and he didn’t plan to hire for. He offered to support you finding it elsewhere. You took that as him “being eager for you to leave” and that’s just not how I see it. I don’t offer this kind of support for employees I don’t see value in mentoring.

      Then in November things changed, and the role is posted. But you decided not to apply and didn’t even remind the boss you would be interested. From the prior conversation I see no reason that the boss wouldn’t have supported you in applying for the role. It’s most likely the boss forgot a conversation from 3 months prior during the craziest year most of us have lived through.

      Now it’s January and they hired someone who isn’t as good at you at that role. However you didn’t apply. Them getting paid more is neither here nor there because you are in different roles. Why would you be paid higher then the accounting assistant? If you had gotten the role and someone was hired into your old role making more then you did now in the accounting assistant role I could see being salty but that didn’t happen. Also if anything cross training should open you up to take on more responsibilities like you asked too, so I don’t see a problem with that either.

      1. MissGirl*

        This was my take as well. I wouldn’t have expected your boss to remember your interest. Plus when he brought it up you didn’t say anything, which would tell him you’re no longer interested.

      2. LadyByTheLake*

        Add me as well. It is understandable that a manager would be willing to help you to the next step in your career (even if it is outside the company) if the road for advancement doesn’t appear to be there within the company. That’s actually a good manager. Then when the position that you might want came open, you didn’t apply for it or even say anything — believe me when I say that they will not remember that you had expressed an interest.

    4. RagingADHD*

      Feelings aren’t right or wrong, they just are. It makes sense that you would like your boss to reach out to you.

      However, I don’t think they did anything objectively wrong. If I were in the boss’s position, I’d assume you didn’t want the new job and were actively looking to leave. Because if you wanted it, you would have applied, right?

      It sounds like your conflicted feelings have created a bind for you – wanting the job but not wanting to apply because you were mad. Now you’re even more mad because someone else got the job you chose not to apply for.

      I totally understand how frustrating it is! I think this is one of those situations where you just have to get really clear about what you want, so your shifting feelings don’t mess you up.

    5. Ins mom*

      And remember they don’t own you! If you get an opportunity that maternity leave isn’t your problem

    6. Not So NewReader*

      I tend to agree with what Firecat has outlined here.

      But I would like to add that the job probably was actually over for you BEFORE any of this story started. You talk about the job is mindless. A person can have these types of thoughts when they privately know that they know they can do better than what they are doing. In an odd turn around this idea morphs into “my job is mindless” instead of “I can do more with my self than this!” Disappointment in one’s own self can be a real killer.

      Caught in this quagmire, the self-defeating stuff kicks in. Such as taking the boss’ supportive words and turning the words into knives that cut you. Then you don’t apply for the job for [reasons]. Now you have bullet holes in your feet, from where you shot yourself in the foot, as well as those d@mn knives.

      This place may feel suffocating but to be fair you are pretty harsh on yourself. What I think is going on here is that you are more angry at your own self than you are at the company. Ease up on you, let you have some air here.

      Eh, I have done my own share of self-defeating actions. And I have done my own share of misreading what is said into a disfavorable thing. You have the right to feel whatever emotion comes to the surface. Take care in focusing on new place and new start. At your next place ASK for what you want. They may say NO. But as circumstances change and you see an opening for whatever ASK again. No answer is set in stone, everything flexes.

      Most importantly, don’t undersell yourself. When we undersell ourselves that anger can go inward and really eat at us, as you see first hand. Ask a friend to help you talk about what skills you have and what work you have done. This is practice for your interviews that you will have.

      Read AAM daily or as often as possible, so you never get caught like this again. Decide that in the future you will be handling this type of thing differently AND effectively. Because Alison can get you there. Just keep reading.

    7. lifesmpossible*

      Thank you to all the replies!

      With people laying out from a boss’s perspective, I agree that I read into it too much. And to the ones who gave the statement, “Yes, I’d be salty too” – thank you, because I feel a bit validated by that.

      Perhaps the missing context is stuff that Not So New Reader nailed… that there is underlying anger. Things like… at the interview, I undersold myself and said “$X amount is the lowest I’d go,” and I SAW the manager cross out a higher wage on the sheet of paper. I asked, “What do you offer for sick time?” They gave me 9 hours. Which was 9 hours of PTO, to last me April – December. When they hired someone my age later in the year, she got a full week. I was pissed, and I know that was my fault for not negotiating more.

      I knew the girl who had my position before me. She was constantly late and leaving early, and then threatened to leave if they didn’t offer her a raise. They gave it to her. Whereas when I ask for a raise, I’m told no, and there is very little flexibility. When it came to a judgement call of a referral meeting their 1-year of employment, they fired him on the exact 1-year anniversary, and then chose not to give me a bonus. I see the other hourly employees getting raises every 4-6 months, but I’m once a year. (And the company pays shares to its employee-shareholders every quarter; people owning one share make more money in dividends than I do all year. So it’s not that they’re tight on budget.)

      I think the final straw was last week when I asked manager, “With these two tasks, should I train [NewHire] in both?” And the response was, “Just this one. She won’t be doing [boring task].” It seemed like a statement of, “Your job is data entry robot. Anything remotely interesting or skill-based might be reassigned.”

      Again – totally is me being sensitive, but if my attitude is that bad, I’m better off moving on and learning to negotiate better at the next job.

  58. Affordable (!) professional headshots*

    I would like a professional-looking, semi-formal headshot to use on LinkedIn and Zoom. I can’t afford to spend much.
    If you have gotten professional headshots taken on your own initiative (not because your organization or company had it done for you), how did you go about it?

    Has anyone ever tried doing it themselves, say, with a good camera phone and tripod? I don’t intend to discount the talent, hard work, and experience of photographers, but I truly cannot afford one right now, and would settle for a less-good photo!

    1. Grace Less*

      If you’re a member of any professional organizations, check to see if they have a relationship with a photographer. When I was on a meeting planning committee, I found out that our org had the photographer come to the annual awards ceremony an hour early and offered (no cost) headshot photos for anyone who wanted them! It turns out that the event wasn’t long enough to meet his minimum event time, so this was the (beneficial to all) compromise plan!

    2. Roci*

      I’ve recently been watching some videos on YouTube (by Indy Mogul, but I’m sure there are others) aimed at amateur filmmakers and they had great tips on low-budget lighting, camera placement, etc. I think the most important thing is probably lighting. If you can macgyver some good lighting, your amateur makeup/backdrop and camera phone will look pretty good.

  59. JustaTech*

    Can anyone recommend a website or book of HR basics for small businesses in California?
    My in-laws have been running a small business for years, but are realizing that maybe some of their sick leave/vacation stuff might not be quite right/optimal and the office manager seems to have some weird ideas (“salaried people don’t have to use sick time”, uh, no, you just have to use it in whole-day chunks).

    A resource with both the laws *and* best practices would be super helpful (I keep trying to nudge them to separate buckets of sick time and vacation so that people are more likely to use their sick time and not come in and get my high-risk in-laws sick).
    Thanks!

    1. irene adler*

      If your in-laws are located near -or in- San Diego, they might look into joining SDEA (San Diego Employer’s Association). This group offers small employers HR resources like access to specialized professional advice (including legal), reference materials, updates on current HR laws/best practices, educational seminars in some form or another.
      It costs money. But it’s a “one-stop shop” for HR resources for the small employer that might find getting this info on their own a bit overwhelming.

      1. JustaTech*

        Ooh, that’s excellent. Who knows if they’ll take it, but they’re always more interested in services you buy than free things.

    2. hbc*

      As a side-note, you can have your salaried workers use sick time in 10 minute increments, if you want. It’s incredibly jerky, and you run into a problem of enforcement when they run out of sick leave (since you can’t dock pay for a partial day), but I’m not aware of any US or state laws that would prevent it.

      1. JustaTech*

        When I looked up California sick leave laws yesterday it looked like salaried employees can only be asked to take sick leave in whole day increments. This is why I’d like to find something solid for them, because California laws are pretty different from the rest of the country (this came up when I needed to compare work-break-frequency between California and Georgia, which are basically two different planets).

        I’d also like some “best practice” stuff because things like re-setting everyone’s sick time to zero in January is stupid.

  60. ManagerX*

    Hi all I’d love your input on this manager issue/question I have. My workplace gives fairly generous PTO and a newer employee of mine has requested three day weekends for a large chunk of the year. We work in a customer facing capacity, so there are certain hours where I must staff the team, but we are a little flexible. I want to approve the time off because I’m a huge believer in PTO as part of a compensation package and I am very loathe to decline any requests. That being said, it will definitely put a lot of pressure on the rest of the team to have one team member with 4 day workweeks for literally half the year. Any advice on how to navigate this?

    1. I'm A Little Teapot*

      Tell her that! Tell her that you sympathize, but it would be a huge strain on the team, so you’re having a hard time approving all the requests. If they’re for medical appointments, then yeah, approve them and figure it out. but if she just wants a bunch of 4 day weeks, that’s not fair to anyone else so need to moderate it.

      1. LDF*

        What? This is her wanting to work a full-time job for full-time pay and benefits which includes her full PTO allotment. If the schedule is the problem then the schedule is a problem, but taking her allotted PTO is not angling for “part-time work”.

      2. PollyQ*

        No, no more than people who take their vacation time in full-week increments are wanting to get paid for doing nothing.

      3. The Vulture*

        Uh, no. She is working all the hours she is being paid for, and taking her paid time off, which is part of her compensation, in the manner that works best for her. You have a very bad take here.

        1. MissGirl*

          I can’t speak for anyone else but if I wanted to work four days a week for months on end, my employer would reclassify me and change my pay grade.

          1. Sandi*

            Your employer would penalise you for taking vacation time? I’m guessing that you work for a place that doesn’t have much leave, because there is no other reasonable explanation for why you think that taking vacation equates to part-time work. How is taking three weeks in a row of vacation different from working 4 days a week for 3 months?

            1. MissGirl*

              Nope. I have extremely generous vacation time. This is a customer facing role that needs coverage. And it’s not three months; it’s six months. That’s 5.2 weeks of vacation in six months. And that’s if the employee doesn’t take additional days. That’s part time work.

              1. Deanna Troi*

                MissGirl, at my last job, I had 6 weeks of vacation. I’m sure there were some years where I used them all in a 6 month period. If there are 2,080 work hours in a year, and someone is given 240 of vacation by their employer, you consider that person to be only working part time if they take all their vacation?

            1. MissGirl*

              Wow! That was not called for. Are you allowed five weeks vacation every six months? Because going by the question that’s what she’s asking for. I don’t think her coworkers are going to be okay with covering her for that unless they get the same time off.

              1. PollyQ*

                has requested three day weekends for a large chunk of the year (emphasis mine)

                There’s no indication that the employee is trying to take more vacation days than she’s been allotted. Say she gets 15/year. That would be 15 4-day weeks, which I think most people would call a pretty large chunk.

          3. Batgirl*

            Presumably they’d check that with you first! If you put in for more time than you can have most places would just turn it down..

        2. Clisby*

          Right. Now, if the problem is that she’s sucking up all the 3-day weekends so no one else gets them, management can certainly deny some of that. But if her benefits include X number of PTO days, then management has to accommodate her taking it off sometime. Maybe she mostly gets Wednesdays off instead of 3-day weekends, but obviously she’s entitled to the time off. That’s what PTO is.

    3. lobsterbot*

      if it’s harder to accommodate the same number of days as long weekends than it is to do so for whole weeks or multiple weeks let this employee know and explain how. For coverage-based jobs she may be making it so nobody else can take a whole week off or a long weekend ever and that isn’t fair. But for plenty of jobs, it’s easier on everyone to take time off like this, so be sure it actually matters. If you are close enough to this employee to know or ask why she wants to do it this way, that might be helpful to know in steering her to make choices that you can approve and that will work with everyone else’s schedule.

    5. WellRed*

      We have a coworker who got her hours reduced to part time ( not by choice) so she doesn’t work Fridays. I don’t blame her at all but man it can be a pain sometimes knowing she’s out that day.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      So she has 26 Fridays off?

      Perhaps tell her that is not doable for [list reasons].
      Suggest that she could have 16 Fridays off but not around x time or y time when business is up. The the balance of the time she can take 1 week at a time.

      The thing is, don’t tell her something different from what you tell others. Set a rule of thumb and everyone goes by that rule of thumb, unless there is a personal emergency.

      I don’t know how many people you have or how much PTO they have. I worked one place where a team of six people had SO MUCH PTO that a seventh person had to be hired because we were literally down a person EVERY week ALL year. If this is making sense to you, perhaps you have a big picture problem and not a One Employee problem.

      1. Retired worker bee*

        That company must have been very generous with PTO. Because if the employees were each given eight weeks (40 days) off per year, there would have been four years each year when everyone was at work.

        I don’t see why it’s a bigger problem for employees when a co-worker is out one day in a week than when the co-worker is out for the entire week.

  61. Not a Real Giraffe*

    Similar to another question upthread, but slightly different. I’m grappling with writing my performance review. I don’t understand what my long-term career path look like at this company. I’m at a director level and am the only person in the company doing this work, and I don’t know where I go from here. There is no clear career path — other sides of the business have very obvious career trajectories but mine doesn’t. Honestly, there’s nowhere to go once you hit Director — but I am, I believe, only midway through my career. I don’t want to keep getting 5% salary increases for the next eternity. I want something to work towards! I just don’t know what that could be and I doubt my boss does either. I don’t want to leave the company — for the most part, I like working here — but I don’t want to be stuck.

    How do I approach this conversation? Have others navigated this same scenario?

    1. Betty*

      I have the same problem and am struggling with whether I should move on or try to grow my position. I’m thinking it could be possible to create a new position that I would manage and could take on some of the projects I’m not too fond of. But I think it would be three years (or even longer due to Covid) before I could get approval for that. Otherwise, I don’t see room for growth in my position if I stay. Do you think there’s room for hiring subordinates for you which might free you up to develop higher level work for yourself and maybe bump up your salary?

    2. BlueBelle*

      The higher up you within an organization the more important is to know the whole business and all departments. You may consider looking a lateral move within a different department. You can say “i want to leverage my knowledge of X to help Y do Z. BBy doing this I will b challenged to learn their part of the business as well as gain a greater understanding of the company as a whole, which will benefit me now and the company later as opportunities become available.”
      This signals that not only are you interested in continued learning and development, you are dedicated to helping the business, and you understand there isn’t a pre laid out career path- and that you do not need one.

  62. Generic Pseudonym*

    I’m a freelance editor, and I like to get as much work as I can. I also have a tendency to overdo it, and last year took on so much work (largely because my husband went on disability and we had to fight with insurance for over a year to get his benefits) that at one point I was having heart palpitations.

    A former coworker recommended me to a relative’s company to write materials for them. They’re a great company and I like what they do, but: I’m out of practice with business writing, particularly marketing-oriented writing, which I haven’t done in over five years; I’m not familiar with the company’s services, so there’s significant learning curve; and the company needs stuff they can then put into social media, which is not in my skill set. The person I spoke with also came on weirdly strong, basically wanting to put me to work based on a resume and one phone call, and they also wanted to pay me in advance (like a couple grand), which I’ve never done as a freelancer (for large manuscript projects I ask for half up front and half on completion) and to which I said no, let’s just do an invoice for hours worked.

    I did one project for them, but the whole thing felt out of my wheelhouse and was rather stressful. My gut is saying this isn’t a good fit, and while I’ve regretted nearly every instance in which I didn’t listen to my gut, it could be general anxiety and imposter syndrome talking. I let them know that I’ll finish up the project but won’t continue on as I don’t have the skill set they need.

    There’s no absence of work on my horizon – I’ve got some large projects incoming and one of my biggest clients informed me that they hired on more people and will have more work for me. I know I’m passing up an opportunity here, but at the same time just feel it’s not a good fit and will not be worth the stress I’m already under (disabled husband, online schooling for high-anxiety kid). Can someone reassure me that I made the right decision?

    1. I'm A Little Teapot*

      It’s ok to turn down work that isn’t a good fit! Especially since you’ve got plenty of other work.

    2. Joan Rivers*

      And it’s OK to hire a helper who wants experience. You’d be “editing her editing” maybe but I would think there may be someone who could work for you.

      You don’t have a problem getting the work it seems so can you expand to being an “agency”? If you’re a good mentor you can help her grow. Publishing has always had “editorial assts.” who can learn and advance.

    3. PollyQ*

      You’ve listed a number of solid reasons why you don’t think you’re a good fit for this, as well as reasons why now isn’t a good time to make a big change in your life. Sounds like you made a good choice for yourself & your family right now. And I doubt this is somehow your last or only chance to transition into writing, if that’s something you’re interested in doing in the future.

    4. Pip*

      There comes a point in every successful freelancer’s life where they need to transition from taking on all the jobs to only take on the jobs that they’re convinced that they can do really well. You’re at that point now, so well done for getting there!

      One thing you can do when you reject a job is to recommend them another freelancer who you think would be a better fit for that job. That way you still get the satisfaction of helping the prospective client get the job done, and you also help a peer get some business.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      I am not comfy with how aggressive that company was in hiring you. I’d pass just on that. They sound desperate, desperation rarely makes a good relationship.

  63. Resume Confusion*

    What would be the best way to list my last few positions on my resume?

    The situation: I had 1 job w/ a large organization for 4 1/2 years. Last year, I took a 1-year leave of absence for another position with a different organization. That position was temporary for 1-year. The job has ended now and I’m back working at the previous organization (same role but a different location, if that matters). I’m looking for another position, similar to the one I took temporarily. That position is more relevant to positions I’m applying to than my current role.

    I haven’t updated my resume to reflect my return to that organization yet, because I’m not sure how to include it. I want to highlight the more relevant position.

    Bear with me, my resume has it listed like this for now…

    Organization 2 — Temporary Teapot Designer — December 2019 — November 2020 (Contract)
    Organization 1 — Teapot Design Technician — January 2015 — November 2019

    Should I just do something like this? I’m not sure if it would make sense, because the duties for my position with Organization 1 are EXACTLY the same.

    Organization 1 — Teapot Design Technician — December 2020 — Present
    Organization 2 — Temporary Teapot Designer — December 2019 — November 2020 (Contract)
    Organization 1 — Teapot Design Technician — January 2015 — November 2019

    Or should it be

    Organization 2 — Temporary Teapot Designer — December 2019 — November 2020 (Contract)
    Organization 1 — Teapot Design Technician — January 2015 — November 2019, December 2020 — Present

    Gah, I can’t figure it out. I want to highlight that Position 2 with Org 2 is way more relevant than Position 1… but I’m currently employed in position 1 with org 1!!!

    Any advice? I have no idea why I am so confused!!

    1. Firecat*

      I find the first one easiest to understand. It shows your most recent work there and is chronological.

    2. LadyByTheLake*

      The problem with all of these is that it doesn’t list your most recent job experience at the top and #1 makes it look like you are currently unemployed. I would do it:

      Organization 1 — Teapot Design Technician — January 2015 — November 2019, December 2020 — Present
      Organization 2 — Temporary Teapot Designer — December 2019 — November 2020 (Contract)

  64. Carpel Tunnel*

    Would it be wise to explain to my future-ex boss about my short summer stint and that I’ll be looking for FT work afterwards?

    I graduated from college recently and was lucky to find a job but not really in a field I wanted to pursue as a career. After working here for 8 months, my experience has been decent to good yet I can’t help but see that the grass is green on the other side for the career path I actually want to pursue.

    So when I applied to temp summer positions for fun, I was surprised to actually get a job offer. The pay is way higher and would give me great experience but it’s strictly for summer only.

    My plan is to give my 2 weeks in my current job near summer and go for the summer temp opportunity. And if the summer temp job is as great as I think it’ll be, I’d like to go back to school and pursue a second bachelors degree (part-time, online) to help me fully pivot into this career field.

    But while I’m pursuing a second bachelors, I’ll need to find FT work. Thus, is there any way of me basically asking for my old job back after quiting it for the summer gig? I have been a great team member and have significantly improved my boss’s life with all the stuff I do (like I’ve prevented our department from making huge mistakes multiple times), with my boss even planning to make me into a manager in the future. And with hiring taking forever here, I have a good hunch the position will still be open once I’m back from summer. Any thoughts?

    1. PollyQ*

      You can try, I guess, but I’d be very, very surprised if they took you up on it. People do quit jobs and then decide to come back, but if they find out you deliberately left for the summer with the plan to slide back in, they may feel somewhat used.

      It sounds like you’d want to come back to the company, for a while at least, whether you decided to pursue the new career or not? If that’s the case, you might have better luck asking for an unpaid break for however long the summer job lasts, and call it an internship, perhaps?

      (And you didn’t ask, but are you sure you need a whole new bachelor’s degree? I suspect you’d get the same benefit from taking some relevant courses and trying to find an entry-level job based on those & your summer experience.)

    2. Zephy*

      I don’t think you can do this after just 8 months in what is almost assuredly an entry-level position. I’ve known of a few people who have left a company and then come back after a brief stint elsewhere, but they were Director-level employees that had been at the company for multiple years before leaving originally. I also think you’d have a hard time making a case to re-hire you if you reapply for your old job after the contract ends if this is your reasoning.

  65. Alex*

    I’m toying with the idea of quitting my job with nothing lined up. I’m SO burned out. I hate my job so much. Every time I try to job search, though, I feel dread. I can’t envision any job that would not feel like this. I’m hoping this is just my frustration with my current job and general burnout talking. I’ve had the same job for ten years and I HATE it. I hate everything about it. I hate my boss, I hate my immediate colleagues, I find the work pointless and uninteresting. I feel like I’m about to lose it on someone any minute. I’m always taken advantage of, and there is so much dysfunction it is ridiculous.

    On the other hand, I have great benefits, and know that all jobs pretty much suck and that I shouldn’t seek out happiness in a career. I don’t have very strong skills in in-demand fields. I’ve applied for jobs in the past and haven’t had much luck. I’m considered a superstar in my current workplace, but it has been hard to translate that into a strong resume. I’m worried about draining my life savings and starting at the bottom.

    (I also have a personal situation in which I’m really in love with someone who is dating someone else, and it might just do me good to get out of town and leave this behind, because I keep just getting more emotionally involved in the situation and I’m worried someone or everyone is going to get hurt. But this goes in parentheses because it is not work-related.)

    I really don’t know what to do and I feel so stuck. I really want to quit but I’m so terrified of not having a job but I don’t have it in me to get another job!

    I know no one here can make a decision for me, but any tips on how to get over your fears of…becoming homeless and staving and cold? I don’t know how to get unstuck.

    1. Joan Rivers*

      After 10 years, maybe you could use some counseling. Job-seeking or personal. That can buy you some time, improve your morale.
      Because you say you don’t have it in you to go for a new job — so it’s not just about being burned out on this job.
      Not diagnosing but don’t see any positives in what you said.
      Although, in a great economy, when life is good, a person might find that once they quit, they remember who they are and their motivation comes back. But in a bad economy w/a Pandemic, that could be less likely.

    2. LadyByTheLake*

      The thing about toxic jobs is they mess with your head and sense of norms so that you end up in a place where you are thinking things like “all jobs pretty much suck.” While I agree that you shouldn’t place your happiness on a career, the flipside conclusion that all jobs are miserable does not follow. It sounds like you’re in a bad place both personally and professionally and I second the suggestion that seeking out counseling might help. Here’s hoping for the best for you!

    3. Betty*

      Is your company big enough to fall under FMLA (50+employees)? If so, you could explain to your doctor what’s going on and how you’re feeling. They might recommend (and do the paperwork for) a leave of absence for stress/burnout. I think that would be legit and could allow you take up to 12 weeks off to reset. It would likely be unpaid, but would seemingly me better than being unemployed.

      1. Not A Manager*

        +1 to the idea of taking a leave, no matter what your path into that might be. Being unpaid while on leave is a million times better than being unpaid while you’re unemployed, and it will give you time to reset and get the ball rolling on your apps.

    4. Alex*

      Thanks for the replies all. I am already seeing a therapist and am being treated (with medication) for depression.

      My therapist thinks I should quit and leave town, lol.

      I don’t think I’m in a bad enough place to warrant a medical leave, though. I would feel like I was taking advantage of the system.

      1. Not A Manager*

        Every time I try to job search I feel dread.
        I can’t envision any job that would not feel like this.
        I feel like I’m about to lose it on someone any minute.
        I also have a personal situation in which I’m really in love with someone who is dating someone else, and it might just do me good to get out of town and leave this behind, because I keep just getting more emotionally involved in the situation and I’m worried someone or everyone is going to get hurt.
        I really don’t know what to do and I feel so stuck.

        This sounds like a crisis to me. I don’t think you’d be gaming the system if you got a short-term, UNPAID(!) medical leave. I really think you need some time and space right now, just to breathe.

        1. Alex*

          Thanks. I’ll think about it. To be clear, when I said “I’m about to lose it on someone” I mean, tell them what I really think of them (not much), not hurt them physically, and same with “someone is going to get hurt.” I mean, hurt feelings/relationships, not physical harm. I know sometimes over the internet that can be misunderstood!

      2. Natalie*

        I would maybe talk to your therapist about that feeling about taking leave. FMLA is hardly a sparkling social welfare system, it’s a few months of unpaid time off during which you can’t be fired or booted off your health insurance.

    5. Princess Flying Hedgehog*

      If your company offers an EAP, take advantage of it! Especially if they offer something like a few free counseling sessions. It can be super helpful to have that other person to give you some short-term coping strategies and to get some help in developing a long-term plan.

    6. Not So NewReader*

      My pitch is to keep reading here. This is a very positive environment. People are encouraging.
      You have a lot of negative going on. Not the least of which is that you are stuck in fear of the unknown and that can be an absolute terrorist on its own.

      Did you get Alison’s books on resumes and interviewing? If not please start there. Take some baby steps, change what you are doing with your applications, see where that puts you. Let’s say you knew for a fact you would only be at this job a short time longer, can you do a sprint? This would be finding the time/energy to write a good resume and cover letter and send it to well chosen employers. No grasping at straws, everything is deliberate and has a good reason behind the choice.

    7. Batgirl*

      Getting out of dodge might be a really good idea since the personal situation is taking up bandwidth without paying you any money. That’s an easy cut.
      When I had no mental energy to job hunt, I took on agency work that would keep the wolves from the door no matter what and which also let me relocate easily and check out opportunities in my own time. I was really leery of going from the frying pan into the fire. It turned out to be super easy to find sonething great.
      When you work for a place that sucks, it makes you feel like everywhere probably does and true: you are in danger of picking somewhere bad in desperation, but you don’t have to!
      Medical leave is an awesome idea and a chance to recharge and check out ideas.
      You’re not doing anyone any favours by refusing rest when you need it, even if your current workplace does favour a zombie workforce.

  66. Need a Long Rest*

    I’m at a company I admire but in a role I can’t take anymore. I’m done with patient-facing telephone calls at call center emporiums. I’ve been working at them for two decades (different companies). I’m in my early 50s and thought this was it for me but I’m tired. I wish I could retire tomorrow. I’ve talked to my boss and grand boss in a meeting and there is no available openings I can transfer into now. No internal transfers. I don’t want to look for another company to start over again. Health wise I’m in good shape could probably use more sleep. There is no other job I would like to do. I just want to sleep, rest, exercise, and volunteer at hospice 2 days a week like I’ve been doing for the past 5 years. Their openings are only for nurses and other certified roles. The owners daughter is the receptionist and his family members cover all the other noncertified roles. This is just venting I guess but any suggestions I’m open to .

    1. Firecat*

      Could you look into other hospices?

      That said, I will warn you that the back office work of larger hospices can very much burn you out too. I was on call 24/7/365 as tech support for a hospice so YMMV as far as finding that work rewarding. I love Hospice as a service, but I didn’t get to interact with that part of it as a back office employee. Instead I dealt with super rude and overburdened nurses taking all their frustrations with their workload, patient families, unresolved guilt/mourning out on me and everyone else who wasn’t an RN or PT.

  67. TurtleMom*

    I need advice about what type of job I should be looking for. I am a middle school teacher in the US, which means that I need a summer job to help fill out my income. I usually work in retail as a seasonal employee during my summer breaks, but I have some health issues that make me extra uncomfortable with the idea of working in retail during a pandemic. Ideally, I’m looking for a job that is WFH or in-person but with the same group of co-workers each day, not face to face contact with the general public. Most of the positions I’ve seen that fit those criteria are looking for a long-term employee, not someone who will only work there June-August. Is there something out there that I’m not thinking of?

      1. Firecat*

        I worked for an online tutoring company back in the day. This was before Gig took off so things may have changed. As a new person you pretty much got bottom thrift so you only had guaranteed pay for like maybe 1 hour during the week. You got paid more if people needed tutoring but that was rare in the summer.

        Also if your schedule had less then 5 scheduled hours per week (or at least 1 if no other’s were available) then you were dropped back down to the bottom of the list. I’m not sure it will be enough to help with much of anything. It was better then being unemployed but I made about $135 every 2 weeks and that was 1099 income so highly taxed once I made over $500.

      2. TurtleMom*

        I have thought about it in the past. Like Firecat said though, I suspected that there isn’t enough demand during the summer to make it worth the time.

    2. Emily Elizabeth*

      If you’re not burnt out on kids a lot of summer camps are still looking for staff, even/especially ones running virtual programming or small pod type day camp groups.

      1. TurtleMom*

        Summer camps are fun! It’s all the fun parts of teaching without most of the headaches (like grading… Or answering emails about grading). I didn’t realize there were camps doing virtual programming – I’ll have to see what’s in my area!

        1. Emily Elizabeth*

          Yes! And the nice thing is that just like with a lot of other jobs that are now WFH/virtual, camps are hiring people from all over the country because it doesn’t matter where you live to Zoom in with your campers. And unlike a lot of other industries, summer camps, at least overnight/larger camps, are already set up to employ people living out of state.

    3. Rachel in NYC*

      It wouldn’t necessarily be WFH or with the same group of people every day but what temping?

      It’s how I got my first jobs after college. A lot of places were looking for someone for a few weeks. You could make it clear that you were looking for something for no more then 2 months, temp only, office.

      That might work…

    4. Laura H.*

      This isn’t what you wanted, but as someone who just came off of a seasonal retail stint for the holidays, the precautions vary from company to company and store to store. I too was a bit nervous working retail in a pandemic.

      And while I caught Covid during my season (after Christmas thankfully) I feel it’s unlikely I caught it directly from work, and I also feel that because I got asked “Are you showing these symptoms?” Every single shift per protocol, I had a better frame of mind what to watch out for. As far as I’m aware, no one else at my job got sick aside from me. But I also didn’t go into work unwell (day I called in, I had a televisit with my doc and a precautionary flu test and Covid test), and that not going in unwell likely played a part too.

      And the company was good about informing the other staff about the confirmed Covid case (without my name attached, but I did tell one or two coworkers who I could text (and I did so further into my recovery)) and they also made sure I was okay and expressed well-wishes.

      If you don’t have a recurring/ repeating summer gig, I’d definitely put more weight to look for a different avenue. However, if it’s somewhere you’ve worked before, ask about the precautions that are in place, and factor that in to your decision.

  68. Too Old For This*

    Personally I would get 4 new cloth masks in something that relates to the season or your job or is just “fun” and give everyone a surprise “gift” in the guise of team building. I know, you shouldn’t have to but since they obviously don’t care or don’t want to wash/purchase new masks this might help in the short term.
    And… I’m sorry you work with such gross people!

  69. memyselfandi*

    I have a question about transcripts. I am applying for an academic position and they have asked for transcripts from both my graduate and undergraduate institutions. Problem is, the undergraduate transcript has my social security number (which was my student number at the time) as well as my birthdate, high school attended and home address. Maybe you can guess that my undergraduate years were a while ago. The graduate transcript has much less information. In either case it is pretty easy to tell what age I am , because someone who was taking courses in the Fall of ’77 is no youth and my CV has dates. That is not my concern. My concern is that I don’t know where these documents are going. I am to create a single pdf file with all required documents that is sent to an e-mail address that references the position. It may be that the document is retrieved by Human Resources and the transcripts are stripped out to be used for verification purposes only. I would still want to remove some of the identifying information. Is it OK to call the Human Resources contact at the institution and verify what happens to these documents? Also, any suggestions on how to redact information? I only have a pdf reader. I could print it, black out the information and scan it, but the print quality is already not great. So, after all that, is a call to HR in order?

    1. Firecat*

      I’d just redact the info on a printed PDF with paper (pen can leak through and still show the info a piece of paper usually blocks it) and then scan it all into one PDF with a cover pages. In the Cover page I would put something like Memyselandi’s transcripts included documents are: graduate transcript from X school and undergraduate from y school. Please note the undergraduate transcript has certain identifying information removed for privacy and cybersecurity.

    2. Anne H*

      Often for academic positions in the initial stages an unofficial transcript is fine, so probably blacking out the sensitive information in Acrobat would be okay. If you get a job offer, they’ll need the full official transcripts for verification, but those will only go to HR.

      1. memyselfandi*

        Yes, they asked for unofficial, but both are official transcripts obtained through Parchment. I couldn’t see that getting an unofficial transcript for undergrad was an option. Honestly, the undergrad transcript is a photocopy of our grade sheets which used to come on a for with carbon paper. (And my home address is shown as RFD #2, which stands for Rural Free Delivery, in case you don’t remember the time before every house had a number for the purposes of emergency services.) By the time I graduated everything was computerized. There was a tremendous amount of change in a short period of time. Looking at that transcript brought back a ton of memories!

  70. Chris*

    I had an interview earlier this week for what would be my first full-on management role, though I’ve had team lead type roles in the past. I was able to answer some of the management-related interview questions based on my team lead experience. However, dealing with an underperforming employee isn’t something I’ve had any experience with. I do read AAM though, so when they asked about it I answered using Alison’s usual advice about clearly communicating expectations, not sugar-coating things, making consequences of failing to address the issue clear, and that if it came down to it, not letting an underperforming person go would be doing a disservice to the rest of the team. This all seemed to go over quite well with my interviewers. We’ll see what happens, but if I end up getting an offer some of the credit definitely has to go to AAM.

    Thanks Alison!

  71. just a small town girl*

    How can I deal with essentially moving on from something that happened early in my professional (ish) life when I have to confront it rather often?

    When I was 17 I was attending CC and managed to land a job at the college as a non-student worker part time position in one of the non-academic departments of the school. It went great for several months, though there were some issues occasionally because I lived nearly 3 miles from the school and relied on walking or getting rides in order to get to campus. Usually I could get rides to class with classmates, but I did walk plenty of times in the 9 months I worked there.

    I had to have outpatient surgery on my upper thigh and walking tore my stitches open and I essentially became unable to walk very far, certainly not the 3 miles to work. I missed a lot of work in the first month when I couldn’t get rides, but due to my schedule I still would end up on campus sometimes in the afternoon when a classmate gave me a ride to our shared class. One day when I’d missed work in the morning my boss’s boss(the VP of the department) showed up in my afternoon class(my boss knew my schedule but not necessarily the details of what class, just Math class 1:40-3:10 or whatever) to grill me, during the class, in front of all of my classmates, about why I’d missed work that morning but could come to class that afternoon. I got fired the next day. I had never submitted any doctor’s notes or anything besides verbally telling my boss about my surgery and stitches situation, and I was so shattered and naive when he fired me that I never went to the exit interview and basically just…left.

    Nearly a decade later I still live in the same town, still take classes at that school, and have a professional job that puts me into occasional contact with that same VP who berated me and then fired me. It’s so uncomfortable to know this guy somehow found my class schedule details, came to my class and did what he did in front of everyone, even though it’s so far in the past. I’m not so bothered by being fired, because, well, I certainly deserved to be let go because of my absences, though I was probably a few days from being fully healed. But the finding my schedule and coming to interrupt my class still sits wrong with me and makes it difficult to have impartial interactions with him. I don’t think he thinks he did anything wrong, if he even remembers it, but I definitely do.

    How can I get over it? Should I just chalk it up to the very well known….weirdness…of academia? I have glowing reviews from every job since, have risen through the ranks in this field, and have nothing to fear(I’ll be starting a new career in a different field when I finally have my degree) in the future. But I still struggle to let go of how it made me feel.

    1. memyselfandi*

      I heard a discussion of the word forgiveness in the context of how we treat former prisoners that helped clarify the terms for me. They spoke of “the release of justifiable resentment” as the meaning of forgiveness. It does not mean what they did is right, and you are justified in your resentment, but you don’t hold onto it. I don’t know if you think it applies to your situation, but I have found it helpful.

      1. just a small town girl*

        I do like the theory of that. I have lots of trauma from an abusive childhood and one of the only ways to heal from that(or to start the healing, since I don’t know I’ll ever be able to say past tense healed) was to know that I was hurt, that it’s okay to live the rest of my life knowing I didn’t deserve it and I have a right to feel a certain way about it, but then let go of the attached feelings and live my life. But that was really necessary and…a long time ago. I gotta remember how I did it! Ha.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          So you had LOTS going on at that time in your life.
          Sometimes we can latch on to one person or one event that happened but that is not the person or event that is the most traumatic. My suggestion is to look at all the other things that were going on at that time and put them on equal footing with your anger toward this person. Give each of those things equal time and see what you conclude. You had some serious life changing stuff going on and then this dipstick pulls his crap. One last straw, right? Life didn’t suck enough, he had to add to it.

          FWIW and this is just my opinion and nothing further, I have been looking on YouTube at “The Crappy Childhood Fairy”. She has lots of videos for free online and I have found her perspective quite helpful and refreshing. I gone through a number of her videos and find that she is still making sense to me. Maybe you’d find some interesting thoughts there? not sure.

    2. Batgirl*

      I would not even try to get over this. What he did was completely beyond the pale and I bet your classmates were all sitting there thinking what a colossal jerk he was being! I don’t know what professional interactions you have with him, but having an insight into his flaws can only help (you’ll always be ready with “Gary, I really think it would be more professional if we have this conversation in private” or “I don’t think this is a topic for public discussion, actually” whereas an unknowing person would be too shocked).
      In other words, why try to be impartial? You have good intel on him; use it. It’s only one piece of intelligence, so I wouldn’t assume he’s always overbearing like that, or that he overreacts in every situation, but knowing that he can, or might, is fine.
      I’d probably take great delight in being as professional and civil as possible while continuing to add to my internal notes on him.

      1. Firecat*

        I agree with Batgirl. Everyone in that class thought the VP was a jerk. You know the VP is a jerk and crosses boundaries and now can advocate for yourself and others when needed in a professional context. It’s fine to always remember what VP did to you – I have a couple of professional contacts who I will always remember too (a former boss who I found out was holding team meetings excluding only me prior to the real team meeting to essentially coax the other team members into bullying me during the next meeting for example.) I think you are taking on way too much blame because you were young when it happened.

        Your only mistake was to not get an ADA accommodation or have a hard conversation with your boss about if you could work through this without reliable transportation. That’s a very understandable mistake at that age – really nothing to be ashamed of. Frankly the boss you spoke too should have initiated those conversations and bears way more responsibility for how this all shook out. He should have helped you apply for and understand FMLA and potential ADA accomodations instead it seems like he was like “OK just try to find a ride I guess” and then essentially blew up and fired you while throwing you under the bus to the VP once the thing you said was likely to happen happened.

        1. Joan Rivers*

          Good on you for rising above and doing so well in your career.

          BUT this is why communication is so important. You were young and didn’t realize you needed to EXPLAIN to your boss and get a medical report to back it up. And maybe put out the word to people that you needed a ride.

          You were fired based on the communication they had, and it could have been different.
          Now you know. It’s a hard lesson but you’ve come a long way. Don’t be mad at them or at yourself, move forward.

        2. just a small town girl*

          I think part of the reason I’m so hard on myself is because yeah, as you say, if I had known better I could have changed the outcome, but I knew nothing about professional life (stay-at-home mom who had just died, and blue-collar dad) and just assumed that “the adults” would tell me what to do. I did learn a lot from the situation though and am much better at advocating for myself (I had to go on FMLA a couple years ago and I got on that EARLY because I knew I didn’t wanna do this song and dance again).

          My immediate boss was really just very passive and kind of a rug. She didn’t really see herself as my “boss” as much as coworker, but I did report to her and she did give me my assignments and such so…yeah. I don’t know. She was a nice enough person and told me after-the-fact that she didn’t want me to have lost my job, but also wasn’t willing to do what was needed to be clear how thin the ice was that I was on and/or figure out a different solution.

          1. Firecat*

            Nice people can be terrible managers. It sounds like overall you have been able to use this experience to advocate for yourself so I think overall you can just think of it as the best learning experience out there.

            I feel you re: blue collar. A lot of people walked into office work seeming to know what to do and getting really irritated that I didn’t just know this stuff. Sorry folks my 5 years at McDonald’s hasn’t helped me figure out that I’m supposed to “read a room” before asking a question about a presentation. :)

          2. Batgirl*

            I don’t think you could have changed the outcome! Nothing could prepare you for this guy. Certainly not professionalism as he doesn’t operate within it. He would take *me* by surprise today, make me gape like a fish, and I’m a gnarly old hard arse. You can only be prepared for this individual by prior experience with him – you have that now.
            So, you’re totally right in that he doesn’t think he did anything wrong; he’s a buffoon whose opinion doesn’t matter. You say downthread you “don’t even get the pleasure of being professional and civil and him knowing he doesn’t deserve it”. He’s
            not the place to look for intelligent
            realisations; you get the pleasure from *you* knowing he doesn’t.

      2. just a small town girl*

        I do remember at the time my classmates being kind of shell-shocked and trying to comfort me but…it was rough.

        He’s a weird guy, for sure, and I learned a lot about his weirdness when I worked in his department from second-hand talk. He was apparently very socially inept and part of a religious cult…on top of just “normal” academia-related eccentricities. Continuing to associate with the school and have contact with him has shown none of those weird bits have changed much, and he’s oddly warm to me so I really wonder if he thinks he did nothing wrong/strange…so I don’t even get the pleasure of being professional and civil and him knowing he doesn’t deserve it. But I do appreciate the support that I do have a right to not be happy with it/him.

    3. LadyByTheLake*

      The part about berating you in front of your classmates is not okay, but if I had a young student working for me who did not show up, I would be worried. And if I knew that they also took classes, I would definitely go see if they were in class to see if maybe something was really wrong and I should be calling their emergency contact. And if I saw them there in class, I would be livid.
      So I don’t think that what the VP did was that big a deal (except for the berating in front of your classmates), and it is pretty much what I would expect. Where you went wrong was not clearly communicating with your employer about the problem, so there are mistakes to go around here. I would let it go.

      1. just a small town girl*

        To be clear, I never no-called/no-showed, I always made sure they knew I couldn’t make it in and why(lack of transportation), so it wasn’t like I dropped off the face of the earth. Plus, it had been happening not infrequently where I couldn’t make it in to work for an AM shift because I couldn’t get any rides until the PM classes, so it wasn’t a surprise that day, either. I was just shocked that he would be able to(with student privacy stuff) track down exactly what class I’d be in, come all the way across campus, and confront me by wednesday. Now I know better about how things work in the real world, but I still think he handled it poorly. I’d like to let it go but…the how is getting me.

      2. Batgirl*

        She did communicate, but verbally like most people would. If they wanted a doctor’s note or more detail it was on them to request it (privately)!

    4. JohannaCabal*

      Look at it this way, you have a professional job. He’s probably thinking you would never get this far.

      I’m the type, I would be subtly bragging about any awards, recognitions, etc. I’d received during my interactions with him. And I’d be making hard eye contact with him. But that’s just me. I have a quiet vindictive side when it comes to personal injustices.

      1. Batgirl*

        I’m a bit like you. I am so polite like 99.9 percent of the time but I do drop a bit of eye contact and “the best revenge is living well” amongst old enemies if I think I can do it smoothly.

  72. Here we go again*

    Update from last week:
    My company filed for chapter 11 last week. We’ve been dealing with irate customers for months and I was shorted on my pay last week. I did contact a lawyer and I’ll probably be paid what I’m owed this up coming Friday, two weeks late, This week the liquidators came in and I’m still employed by my employer and we’re all waiting on our pink slips because if we hold until then we’ll have our health insurance until January 31st. My position was axed, and the liquidator wants us to work 6 11 hour shifts until may as a 1099, 100% commission employee during our slow season. It was my best poker face not to laugh at him.
    Well on Tuesday I received a job offer that starts on the 25th and I gladly took it. It’s close to home, better benefits and I’ll work 4 10 hour shifts a week! Which is what I wanted. Today I’m waiting on the call that they’re passing out pink slips to turn in my keys to run up there and collect unemployment for a week until I start my new job. I’m just happy to put this place behind me. Even though I’m sad because I love my coworkers and I’ll miss them. But we’re all sick of how our company treats us and our customers.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      Congrats on getting out of there and getting into a new place!
      I wish you the very best at your new job!

  73. Manders*

    An update about a question I asked last week: I was struggling with a difficult site design project I wasn’t really qualified to do, and feeling like I needed to lower the management team’s expectations. This week I talked to the company’s web developer, and he pointed me in the direction of some Bootstrap snippets I could use and showed me where to put them.

    I built a page that looks pretty great compared to what we had before! I think I was way overestimating what I was being expected to do on a technical level. The marketing manager seemed impressed that I was able to do very basic things like embedding a Youtube video–not exactly the kind of advanced web development I was worried about!

    I’ve also moved my schedule a bit to have more overlap with the overseas team. Communication will still be a challenge during lockdown but I think it will help to ask the team for help and feedback more frequently instead of getting spun up thinking my work isn’t good enough. This is an industry I’ve wanted to get into for a long time and I think I set my own expectations higher than what everyone else actually needs me to do.

    1. ACHR*

      Anybody also have experience of being saddled with “non-work” work?
      A month or so ago, I got voluntold to be a part of the office “staff happiness” committee. Basically, this committee would organise the all office parties, buy snacks in the kitchen, put up decorations and send greeting cards for special occasions.
      Problem is… I never asked for ANY of this extra work, which I have to do on top of my regular work. Is there any benefits in doing these things? Would bosses be impressed in the long run? Or would it just create an impression of “Oh she seems to have a lot of free time and interest, let’s give her more of this sort of work”?
      I am also saddled with the project management aspect of it, so I often end up doing majority of the work (organising meetings, updating the bosses, paying for the items, submitting the claims…etc) Frankly I loathe how much anxiety its giving me. Now I am just counting the days when my boss can tell me that my sentence is up and some other hapless newcomer can do it.

  74. ACHR*

    Anybody also have experience of being saddled with “non-work” work?
    A month or so ago, I got voluntold to be a part of the office “staff happiness” committee. Basically, this committee would organise the all office parties, buy snacks in the kitchen, put up decorations and send greeting cards for special occasions.
    Problem is… I never asked for ANY of this extra work, which I have to do on top of my regular work. Is there any benefits in doing these things? Would bosses be impressed in the long run? Or would it just create an impression of “Oh she seems to have a lot of free time and interest, let’s give her more of this sort of work”?
    I am also saddled with the project management aspect of it, so I often end up doing majority of the work (organising meetings, updating the bosses, paying for the items, submitting the claims…etc) Frankly I loathe how much anxiety its giving me. Now I am just counting the days when my boss can tell me that my sentence is up and some other hapless newcomer can do it.

    1. Batgirl*

      I thought you were probably a woman before you even said “she”. Are there any men on this committee? Any who were voluntold rather than expressing an interest?
      Alison’s written a lot about this stuff taking your energies away from actual work that could get you promotions and pay rises. https://www.askamanager.org/2019/09/my-office-sticks-women-with-all-the-party-planning.html
      I would probably start with indicating to my boss that I’m really bad at it because I’ve never been interested in hospitality roles and “I was always taught that it was outdated to assign women caretaking jobs; also are we sure this won’t cause a legal issue?”

    2. Distractinator*

      There’s a thin line between complaint/refusal (and being labeled problematic, not a team player, etc) vs agreeing (and being stuck with this indefinitely). The bosses will not be impressed in the long run, but they can be in the short run – especially if you tell them to be! Actually, it’s great that there’s a committee and not just one hapless individual; but suggest that it’s in everybody’s best interests if there’s a rotating roster. “This is something that I’m happy to do because I can tell it’s important (to you) to have those activities as something our team does; on the other hand, it’s definitely not my favorite aspect of my role (as llama IT specialist), so I’m looking forward to when my time on the committee rolls over”
      Keep track of your best estimates how much time these tasks take, and at your regular meetings when you’re saying how you’re spending your time, slip that number in there. “And let’s see what else this month… the cards for Fergus and Jane probably took about 5 hours between the cat-wrangling to get them signed by everybody, and that issue with the gift card form…”

  75. Anon librarian*

    About a month ago, I applied for a job at a government agency I once had a student internship at. The job requires non-partisanship and the application required me to disclose whether I was a member of or had ever made a donation to a political party. I had, so I disclosed it, and noted that if my getting the job was contingent on my severing any ties with the party, I’d do it happily.

    I also emailed my former supervisor who still works in the same department at that agency, just to tell her I was applying and that I hoped she was well. I didn’t ask for a recommendation or anything.

    I never heard back about the job, and I never heard back from my former supervisor. I’m wondering if my disclosure was the cause of this… the job posting closed ages ago, so I figure if I was going to hear from them, I would have by now. I’m less surprised by the fact that I haven’t been asked to interview (it’s a competitive field with few job opportunities) than I am by the fact that my contact never bothered to reply.

    Has anyone had experience with this? I’ve tried to be vague about the field, but because the field is quite specific that may make a difference… it’s a librarian job in a provincial Canadian government organization.

    1. RagingADHD*

      It would be very strange for the disclosure itself to be disqualifying, as making political donations of one kind or another is such a normal, widespread thing to do.

      It is a bit odd to hear nothing back from your personal contact, but possibly they are behind on returning emails from before the winter holidays, or are overloaded due to the pandemic, etc. A month can go by in a flash if you’re constantly triaging emails.

      1. Oaktree*

        That makes sense. I guess it’s also possible my email got lost in her inbox what with how much email people get these days…

  76. Kilo*

    I work at a gov/non-profit organization. Here’s my dilemma: I have an interim assistant director who has been in the role for approximately 9 months. We need this person to decide if they want the permanent position. We have made it clear from months on end that we want this person in this role, but their resistance and forestalling tactics (we needed an answer over a month ago) are now making me and my boss second guess this internal promotion. Also, their indecision is making extra work for me. I’ve been tasked with creating a spreadsheet of all my division’s duties per position because this person claims they find the position description too confusing. In addition, they keep asking more questions that are along the lines of “why is work being shifted to me”, “what is your job (mine) going to be”, “my domestic partner thinks you should be doing X with documents”, “why isn’t person X doing this instead”, and so on.

    Is it unethical at this point to rescind the offer? It feels so slimy to me, but this needs to end and I need to have the position advertised and filled. I also feel like I am being set up to be the bad guy so that they can spread lies around the org that we misled them. In this person’s defense, this has been a highly dysfunctional workplace and we almost lost our funding. They have been with the organization a long time and they have some excellent skills, but I am now very uncertain about this person being my second in charge.

    1. Firecat*

      I think rather then rescinding the thing that would probably feel the best is something like.

      Interim Assistant – we need your answer that you will take X role as described in Y document attached by Tuesday. If we don’t here back from you we will assume that is a no and the transition will look like A, B, C.

      If interim assistant meets with you prior to Tuesday and basically continues with I think it should be Y you can simply reiterate “I know you do, but this is the role. So are you interested or should we move forward with the transition?” Repeat as needed then if he doesn’t give an answer move forward with the transition.

      1. Kilo*

        Thank you, Firecat! This is perfect. We are meeting later next week and I will give this a shot. I am also concerned because I have made it clear this position requires skills in X and not once has this person asked me how to start learning or asked me since you are working on X, can you start teaching me? Nothing that shows curiosity beyond their comfort zone.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      I’d rescind.
      Tell her that you have decided to go in a different direction.
      OR
      Tell her that you needed an answer x weeks ago and she has yet to answer. So her lack of an answer forced your hand you cannot wait any longer.
      OR
      Tell her that the questions she asks telegraphs that the job is probably not a good fit for her. (It sounds like she does not even understand the job. I’d have very little patience for those questions especially if done in a whiny voice.)

      My rule in work life and in my personal life is to WATCH OUT for people who cannot make decisions. Avoid, avoid, avoid. If you are not happy now, in a couple years you will want to run away and hide.

  77. Daisy-dog*

    Hello! Looking for advice on the aerospace industry in the US. My husband recently graduated with a degree in aerospace engineering. We are currently in DFW, but are open to relocating. He is noting in cover letter that relocation reimbursement is not expexted. He has been applying to jobs since October without much response and no interviews. I work in HR, so I am familiar with many aspects of recruiting and annoying ATS things. I am looking for input from anyone in the industry. I have heard from other HR pros that it is suffering because of Covid, but it is still possible to find jobs. Any advice for him in this job search? Thanks so much & happy Friday!!!!

    1. Orbital93*

      Definitely look into jobs in Colorado! Not many people know, but the Aerospace & Defense industry is huge here! I’d recommend specifically Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, Boeing, L3Harris, Infinity Systems Engineering, Leidos, SAIC, Booz-Allen Hamilton, and The Aerospace Corporation.

        1. Daisy-dog*

          Yes, I have heard about Huntsville as well as nearby Tullahoma, TN as growing areas. He’ll definitely need to bookmark that search.

        2. RagingADHD*

          Huntsville just got named as the new headquarters of Space Command, so there’s bound to be a jump in activity there soon.

    2. pancakes*

      I don’t have any experience in the aerospace industry, but it doesn’t seem like a good idea to reject relocation reimbursement in every cover letter, because at some companies it’s a standard benefit. Rejecting it preemptively in those situations could come across as a lack of research on the company and/or an odd effort to undercut other candidates.

      1. Daisy-dog*

        He is saying that it isn’t *expected* as a way to place himself on equal footing with local candidates. But it could be better to remove from some higher profile companies or locations that might regularly get transplant applicants.

        1. The New Wanderer*

          I would also recommend taking that out of the cover letter. It’s just not necessary and IME would not make someone appear more, less, or equally attractive as a candidate. The bigger aerospace industries almost always cover relocation (or they make it clear when it isn’t covered). I’ve worked for two of the giants and relocation was part of the deal.

          Northrup Grumman is aggressively hiring all over the country. In addition to the locations already mentioned, Utah, southern California, Seattle, Houston, and Florida have a lot going on in the field (space and aviation) too.

        2. acmx*

          Completely agree with The New Wanderer.
          Also, I tend to think that mentioning expenses wouldn’t belong in a cover letter. However, I have never needed a cover letter for any of my jobs.

    3. Rowan*

      Think about looking at startups in addition to the big companies – they can be great places to get a lot of experience quickly. I know there are some in Colorado (esp. Boulder area), San Francisco area, and LA and San Diego. The area around DC is also big for aerospace, not sure if there are startups there but likely. Depending on the type of engineer he is remote might also be a possibility!

      Plug for my own company, which is a great place to work! We have offices in Boulder and SF and some positions are open to remote: https://www.capellaspace.com/about-us/careers/

    4. Stephanie*

      If he’s open to it, automotive will sometimes hire aerospace engineering folks for systems jobs, aerodynamics, etc. Jobs will mostly be in Midwest (Metro Detroit, in particular) or the Deep South (a lot of the German and Japanese companies have offices and plants in MS, AL, GA, SC). Either Honda or Toyota’s US office is based in Plano, actually.

      Phoenix (where I used to live) has a fair amount of aerospace/defense jobs. Other big areas are Seattle, SoCal, Huntsville, and DC.

      1. Headachey*

        Boeing is pulling more and more operations out of the Seattle area – I wouldn’t plan on finding a long-term aerospace career here

  78. Captain Hot*

    Want to ask managers and more experienced people, when you become assigned “not really work” (e.g. your boss asks you to organise the corporate funfair stall, set up staff farewell party…etc), is it counted as “work”? Like, is it okay to work on these items during the working hours? Should we make an effort to spend as little time as possible on them?

    I just got appointed a lot of such work recently, and while they might be fun, I also feel very anxious and don’t want my boss to get the impression I am spending all my time on these.

    1. Alex*

      That is 100%, unequivocally, work, and you should be paid for all the time you spend on it (if you are nonexempt).

      1. PollyQ*

        And if you are exempt, it shouldn’t add much, if any, time to your workweek. My bias is that this stuff isn’t that important though, so yes, I would make an effort to spend the minimum amount of time on them that it takes to do a decent job.

    2. Daisy-dog*

      Ask! If it’s not super obvious what your priorities are, say something like, “Hey, with this farewell party on top of my XYZ tasks, what should I be prioritizing? Is it okay if I spend 2-4 making phone calls to vendors for the party and then get my reports submitted tomorrow?”

      Though as Alex said, you should totally be doing this during work hours. Just confirm with your boss the priority levels and how much time is acceptable. They may think that you wouldn’t spend more than 1.5 hours on the party when you’d like to spend much more.

    3. Firecat*

      You should definitely work on this during work.

      If you are not sure how much time to spend on it ask your boss about your plans and about how much time you think it will take. They may reassign some if its taking on more time then they thought.

      But you should absolutely not work off the clock on this stuff.

    4. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      Was your boss ‘in the loop’ on you being appointed to do this stuff? Who assigned it to you?
      They are definitely work activities and so should be carried out in work time, but I share your boss’s hypothetical reaction to this – I’ve got to admit that I wouldn’t be very happy losing people’s time and focus from the actual work on to ‘unrelated’ activities (I’m assuming that you are normally a Llama Groomer or such like rather than something related to corporate stalls such as marketing).

  79. Lemon Cake*

    (Delayed) happy update: I’m quite early in my career and had to leave my previous job under difficult circumstances during the pandemic. I had posted on the open threads a couple of times during my job search and everyone responded with very kind and practical answers. I also religiously referred to the archives on here for advice. Not only did I get the job I most wanted, I got a pay raise and awesome colleagues to boot :)

    I found out recently that the big differentiator between me and the other candidates (probably the reason that tipped things in my favor) was that I sent tailored thank you notes to my intervewers, which is something I learnt from this blog. Thank you Alison and the AAM community!

  80. Dominica*

    At my new job, at least two coworkers (and possibly my boss) are job hunting because the work environment is toxic. I’m job hunting too, and I’m worried about what to tell my boss when I finally get to leave.

    My boss claims that the last few people in my position were horrendous employees, and everyone keeps telling my boss that she finally made a great hire with me. She seems really happy and proud of it, but…she goes on tirades about various situations from her professional and personal life where she’s always the victim, and she stirs up a lot of drama and negativity (she even complains about my coworkers when they’re not there). I worry that when I quit, she’s going to see it as a huge personal betrayal and be livid and demand to know how long I’ve been job hunting. I don’t know if she’ll fire me when I give two weeks notice.

    Any advice on how to handle quitting when that day comes? It seems like the logical thing to do would be to say I’m leaving for the same reasons everyone else wants to leave, but I don’t know if I should make up a story about a job offer I couldn’t refuse falling into my lap so it doesn’t seem like I was actively trying to betray my boss.

    1. BlueBelle*

      You do not have to give any reason for leaving and don’t lie. When asked “This is a great opportunity and feels like a great fit!” If you have an exit interview with HR or with a third party hired to do them you can be more honest about the culture.

    2. Daisy-dog*

      If you’re fired, you may qualify for unemployment for those 2 weeks. Overall, you cannot control her reaction. Just go in, say you’re leaving and when – no reason is needed. If pressed, just say you found another opportunity that you’re excited about. You don’t have to invent a story.

    3. PollyQ*

      No matter what you say, she’s going to take it as a betrayal, and she’s going to badmouth you to whoever comes next. This is not something you can prevent. Don’t worry about making up a story, just give a bland reason (I like BlueBelle’s script) and move on.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      It used to be in NY, I dunno if it still is, that you couldn’t fire someone who gave notice. I think they had to get severance at least. You might feel some support if you google and find out where your state is at on this question.

      Going the other way, you could decide to say, “Talk nicely to me or I will leave NOW.”

      One thing I know about victimhood, is that if you try to explain to these folks that they are people first and victims second they will go into meltdown. Victimhood is their identity if you take that away from them they can’t function.
      So if you want to show her how she is wrong, you probably WON’T. She won’t let you.

      I’d put the whole conversation under the heading of “too little and too late” and try to get out as peacefully as possible. It’s too late to fix or explain any of this.

  81. Leslie Knope 2.0*

    An update to my comment last week!
    If you missed it, my mom suddenly (and very happily) retired early last week! It occurred because she rage quit once she discovered the president/owner of the 20ish person company she worked at gave himself a $1.3 million bonus, his laughably incompetent and unqualified daughter, the VP of the company, a $300,000 bonus, and all other employees $50 gift cards.
    Like.
    Woah.
    He could have given every employee a $10,000 bonus and still made it out of there with a 7 figure bonus.
    I still can’t wrap my head around it.
    My mom found out because she handles most of the financials for the company, so while she wasn’t supposed to “know” per se, she knew.
    Once she discovered this information, she put in a personal day and said she would be unreachable (she even screened all their calls! I’m so proud of her) and stewed at home, fueled by a bottle of Chardonnay. She stayed up all night, keeping my dad up in the process to rebound ideas off of him and vent, and then sent an email to her boss (the president/owner) in the AM saying that as of that day, she would no longer be employed there and he could pay her as a contract employee (at double her pay) if she needed to come transition any of her duties.
    He never responded.
    Never called.
    I have a pocketbook full of phrases and curses I’d like to fling at this man.
    However, she received multiple calls from her coworkers with well wishes, and others even called saying that they were going to quit now too with her gone.
    Personally, since she’ll never need a reference from this man or anyone at that company,
    I think she should have burned the place down and trotted away with their only fire extinguisher (figuratively….mostly). This was the one moment of life every disgruntled employee DREAMS of where she could have told her boss exactly what she thought of him and exposed his greed to all the other employees!
    But alas.
    She took the high road.
    My sweet mother.
    She is now enjoying her retirement by helping my dad with the business he owns, visiting her grandkids, and helping me fix up this camper project my husband insisted we needed.
    I will always have a fantasy life where she poured gasoline on that business, struck a match, and danced away, but I’m just happy that now she’s happy.

    2. Hi there*

      Thank you for this update, I am so impressed by your mom. The additional details about the conduct of the boss are somehow even more infuriating.

    3. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

      Your mom is my new hero! I hope I would have the integrity to leave and the class to take the high road if I were ever faced with such a situation.

    4. tangerineRose*

      Your mom sounds cool. Remember “The best revenge is to live well.” It sounds like she’s living well!

  82. Keliza*

    Does anyone have an example of meeting with an employee for a written warning, and changing it based on the employee’s comments? New manager trying to figure out if I should stand my ground, but my employee does have a good point…

    1. BlueBelle*

      Do the results wanted/outcomes or actions change? If so then I think you should modify those and always include the employee’s comments. Can you ask them what they need to be successful in what you are asking them to do and together develop a plan? there may be things they need you to do- bridge gaps in knowledge, advocate for them in some way, help them build a relationship with another team member or department.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      Write up: Employee has failed to do A.

      Employee comment: I lack B necessary to do A.

      Write up amended by Boss: From here forward when missing Critical Item/Info, employee will notify boss immediately as opposed to just not doing the work.

      Write up scenario #2: Employee did Bad Thing C.

      Employee Comment: I did C because I thought [whatever good point they had]. So I did C.

      Write up amended by boss: Employee has been instructed that when they are no longer to do Bad Thing C under any circumstances. Employee has also been instructed on who to touch base with when they are uncertain what they should be doing. (Myself as boss or Jane as senior staff member will be contact points for Employee.)

      Is there some reason that you HAVE to write up this person?
      Can you check in with your boss or HR before proceeding?

  83. CopyCat*

    I would love some advice on how to help my 27 yr old offspring (Chris).

    They graduated with honors from a top college, needing some therapy and medication to do it, but finishing in 4 years and seeming very happy while there, coming home only during vacations.

    They stayed with us for a year, working very part time at several jobs at once while figuring out what was next. Then there was a year serving in what we can call US-a-corp, which they applied to without our help. That year was really rough for them and is extremely intense for anyone. I think that caused or increased anxiety related to anything involving employment or seeking employment.

    A few years later: Other than working very part-time in a local business that is work aligned with their interests, there has been no other employment. And that job came about because someone who works there knew them already and is great about mentoring young people on the job. It is giving them a mixture of retail directly with customers, computer work, and grunt work moving stuff around. So that’s good. Chris lives with us, is getting counseling, and is seeing a doctor to continue medication for anxiety and depression.

    There’s a lot of free time in Chris’s days, which they spend happily pursuing serious hobbies. Chris also has some chores around the house, but not a huge number. I get frustrated that Chris has energy and enthusiasm for non-work but is convinced they are too depressed/anxious to get more of a job. The thought of writing a resume or applying for a job causes a lot of anxiety. I can’t tell whether it is mostly the anxiety we all feel during the difficult process of getting a job. Are they psyching themself out? Maybe it’s true that this illness is serious enough to prevent full-time work, but I can’t tell.

    I don’t know how much to push, and when I’ve met with the counselor to ask (with Chris’s permission), I haven’t gotten any clear answers or what to expect in the future.

    Eventually I’d like for Chris to live independently (maybe in a nearby apartment), but employment is the priority right now. Luckily, finances aren’t an issue, although health insurance is certainly expensive and is a concern for the future. Currently we’re buying that through the ACA for them.

    And also, even if they are able to work sometime soon, how does someone with their work history move on to something better?

    Thanks for listening. I look forward to reading your words of wisdom.

    1. Manders*

      This is a very weird year to be looking for work, especially with a spotty resume! I do think some of the advice that might apply in normal years has gone completely out the window. It’s hard to set firm deadlines when you have no idea what the economy is going to look like in 6 months. The world is also full of anxiety-producing things right now, to the point that very normal work activities (going into an office, meeting with interviewers in person, working in an open office) actually might be as high-risk as they feel to someone with severe anxiety.

      Is Chris aware of the fact that your ability to financially support them is not unlimited? Are they capable of doing web-based work like online tutoring? If you did hand-hold them through the process of applying for some boring but stable admin jobs, would they be able to do those jobs, or is their anxiety to the point that it’s preventing them from being capable of working at all? It sounds like you’re not really sure what Chris is capable of, and you may need to figure that out before you start planning for the future.

      One thing I’d advise against is pushing Chris to monetize their hobbies. I’ve seen a lot of parents who think that creative hobbies can be turned into careers, but in my experience young adults without much work experience tend to crash and burn when they try to jump straight into starting a business.

      1. Joan Rivers*

        Chris finished college in 4 years so it doesn’t sound like there’s so much anxiety there can’t be a job and independence. But that’s not clear. The counselor isn’t clear. And Chris is now 27 —
        maybe consult someone else?
        What LW needs, I’d think, is to consult about how “enmeshed” or “enabling” the parental role is here — or not.

        1. Manders*

          Anxiety disorders can get worse over time (especially once avoidance becomes a habit) and sometimes people who do all right with the structure of college flounder when they don’t have that anymore. I do think a new counselor could help since Chris has stalled out on progress with the one they have, but sometimes people do fine for a while mentally and then take a turn for the worse.

          As Firecat pointed out below, Chris is trying to enter a very rough job market after an experience that may have given them a bad impression of what the working world is like. I do think there are things CopyCat can do to set expectations more clearly, but letting your kid live with you during a difficult time in their life isn’t necessarily enabling. Under other circumstances I think it would be easier to set a timeline for Chris to find a job and move out, but in the current economy it may not be possible to do that.

    2. T. Boone Pickens*

      I mean…Chris has zero reason to look for another job as you’re covering all their expenses. I would imagine that if you put a transition plan in place where in ‘x’ amount of months you’ll be transitioning the burden of paying for their insurance onto Chris and then in ‘y’ months you’d like to see them make the transition to living on their own Chris will miraculously figure out their job situation.

      1. Joan Rivers*

        My comment is “awaiting moderation” but I thought it was less judgmental than this one is that printed. I just brought up the idea of examining whether or not parents are involved in a way that needs to be looked at. Probably key words triggered something.

        1. Firecat*

          Yeah that can happen. If there is a link, or a key word, etc. then it will get moderated regardless of “harshness”. In fact harshness isn’t really screened here at least not from an instant moderation side it may be removed manually by Alison if she sees it.

        2. CopyCat*

          Absolutely. I’m looking at whether we are involved in a way that should change. I guess I’m saying that this is why I wrote in.

      2. CopyCat*

        I agree with this for someone who is reasonably healthy. Some people really can’t work full time due to depression and anxiety. I wish I could tell where on that continuum Chris is.
        Getting only vague, useless non-answers from the counselor is really annoying.

    3. Firecat*

      It’s extremely difficult to transition from part time to full time work.
      If Chris worked in Americorps, especially VISTA, for a year that can also be a huge s**** show. My spouse’s self esteem was wrecked in that program.
      It’s extremely difficult to get a job this year and is very overwhelming.
      So I really get Chris not having much energy to peruse the same job boards that are empty (not sure if you knew but US lost over 120,000 jobs in December alone with news of new strains)

      I had a rock solid resume with 10 years full time increasing responsibility work. I was still employed full time (so instant boost to my chances). Prior to 2020 I had a 50% return rate on resumes to interviews. I usually got an offer 33% of the time when interviewed.

      During 2020?
      I had a 10% return on interviews. I had a 20% offer rate when interviewed. It was miserable. There were many times I thought I was never going to get another job. I had to take months long breaks without thinking or talking about applying during the slog that was me trying to get a job while furloughed and I have a lot more experience then Chris. It’s just really, really hard out there. Unprecedently hard right now.

    4. Littorally*

      So, a couple thoughts. I was in a similar situation to Chris, back during the last major crisis — I graduated college with depression and ADHD in the middle of the housing market crash, and spent two years working a min-wage, part-time job and crashing with members of my family.

      So, a couple things to consider:

      “Energy for hobbies but not energy for job-hunting” is a really understandable but kind of fallacious way to look at things. Hobbies are an anxiety soother, while job-hunting is an anxiety exacerbator. So comparing the two isn’t really as helpful as it seems like it ought to be. “Chris can do things that calm their anxiety but not things that make their anxiety worse” seems… pretty normal, tbh.

      You say “Eventually I’d like for Chris to live independently […] but employment is the priority right now.” Is that Chris’ priority or yours? Would Chris like Chris to live independently? If they are really struggling with psychological issues, and it sounds like they are, they may not feel that living independently is something they can put on their current mental goal scheme. And they may be right about that! Someone who struggles with staying motivated because of mental issues may not be able to maintain an apartment up to the standards to keep a lease, or be able to take enough care of themself to live independently. And how strongly does Chris prioritize employment right now?

      To best help Chris continue to job-hunt, your goal should really be to make job hunting minimally anxiety-producing. What that looks like, in practical terms, depends a lot on Chris. What help do they want from you? What would make the task easier, rather than harder, for them? This may not always be intuitive.

      It can be very tempting to say, “My house, my rules!” But if your goal is really to help Chris get on their feet, that’s not necessarily going to be a great approach, especially when you’re dealing with mental illness. Putting more emphasis on getting it done can be counterproductive.

  84. Allura Vysoren*

    I need a reality check.

    A few months ago, I made the not-at-all-difficult decision to start job hunting so that I could move on from my incredibly toxic company. My wife wants me to find a job that pays well enough that we can support both of us on my salary indefinitely. My current position chronically underpays everyone so this is difficult but not impossible.

    Last month I received a job offer. Everything was perfect except for the cost of insurance–more than double what I’m currently paying for myself and my wife, for the exact same insurance, to the point where I could essentially be looking at a pay cut. I made the difficult decision to turn it down without negotiating because the salary I would need to make up the difference was outside of their range. I was up-front about my reasons in the hope that if my assumption was false, they would come back and ask what I was looking for. They didn’t, but they graciously said if my circumstances changed to reach back out.

    Circumstances have changed. My toxic job is getting worse by the day and today I received a rejection from what would’ve been my dream job. I’m constantly filled with regret, wondering if we should’ve tried harder to make the job work. If my wife and I determine that we *can* do this after all–should I reach out to the hiring manager? I understand that the position might be filled and there are no other openings, and I would mention that in my letter. I probably wouldn’t even be thinking about it, but the listing showed up in my job search again a few days ago.

    1. hbc*

      I think there’s very little to be lost by reaching out, especially with mentioning that you saw the job listing again.

      Maybe the biggest thing, though, is that you’ll be further away from the goal of supporting your family on your salary. Reading between the lines, is this only a goal because your wife wants it? If you’ve got solid reasons for preferring it too, then you’ve just got to weigh the downside of staying in your current place for more money versus the downside of needing to stick out a lower paying, less toxic job for the next couple of years.

      1. Allura Vysoren*

        It was originally my idea, but that was before my workplace went from bad to worse. There’s also the fact that she works for the same employer and it’s even harder on her mental health than it is mine and she can’t drive for health reasons so if she continues to work, any job I take would have to have a schedule flexible enough for me to drive her to and from work.

    2. saf*

      It’s worth talking to them – if it’s been re-listed, perhaps they were unable to fill it at the previous salary and might be open to negotiation

    3. Not A Manager*

      You imply that you’d be reaching out via a text-based medium, because you say “letter,” but I would call the hiring manager first. You were offered the job, AND offered an opportunity to reach out if your circumstances changed, so I think a phone call is warranted.

      Say that you had been very excited about everything about the job except for the insurance cost, that you have now found a way to make that work for you, and that you’d like to be considered for any similar roles.

      But whether you say that in a letter or in a phone call, I don’t think you need to tell them that the position might be filled, etc. They know that, and they know you know it. You’re not being rude or presumptuous to let them know of your renewed interest, and you don’t have to apologize or explain it.

  85. Msnotmrs*

    I’m the lone person in my job class in a large state agency–imagine I was an archivist with the state troopers. Because it’s a one-person department, I have essentially complete autonomy over my area, and I feel like I’ve learned so much about advocating for myself and about serving the public, especially people who are historically underserved. The big downsides are that the environment is high-risk, and that I feel kind of isolated and misunderstood in my work. A lot of people who work basically cheek-by-jowl with me don’t really understand what I do (including my direct supervisor), and it’s not at all uncommon to hear colleagues say something to the effect of “what is the point of your job?” I feel like I’m always at square one with trying to implement ideas, because a lot of people even sorta forget I’m here.

    Previously I worked as a paraprofessional at a different agency, say the city’s museum. A former colleague alerted me to the fact that a full-time paraprofessional job will be opening up at the museum, and she thinks I should apply.

    Although it would be slightly more money to move back to the museum (even as a para), it would be a step down in responsibility. And besides that point, I feel like I’m just kind of through the looking glass on our industry in general–the museum talks a good game about DEI, access, all that jazz, but working with the state troopers has opened my eyes to the fact that there’s a whole nother level of serving citizens that the museum turns a blind eye to. Which actually goes against their mission statutorily–they should be resource-sharing with me, but they don’t, and they say it’s due to the budget but I think it’s due to apathy and the sort of perceived ickiness of my service base. I think I’m feeling something akin to a grudge against the museum. And frankly the thought of returning to an environment where I have less power and am extremely sioled doesn’t really appeal to me in a way that it used to. It’s hard to imagine sitting through meetings and listening to “we’re so important, we serve the public!!!!!” knowing what I know, and not having the sway to change anything. But I miss the team, I miss the agency culture, and I know it would give my spouse a lot of peace of mind if I moved out of my high-risk job.

    Has anyone else been in a situation where they moved back to a lower-responsibility, less-political position?

    1. Firecat*

      I don’t have direct experience, but a friend of mine did and they basically kept all the worst part of the promotion jobs tasks on her while paying her way less. She eventually left.

      Just be wary of that. YMMV depending on your org but I’ve seen that move pulled enough times – oh you want to step back down because you don’t like the promotion??? Well pay cut is now and tasks are still yours .. then months later a “reorg” means they are stuck with those tasks permanently.

      1. Msnotmrs*

        I would be moving to a different agency, so the tasks fortunately would be about as different as possible while still remaining in the same profession.

    2. RagingADHD*

      Does either job offer a path to advance into a position where you could make substantive changes to the problems you see, or at least have some influence or input?

      1. Msnotmrs*

        No promotions per se (gov’t jobs) but there are chances to move up at the museum, especially if I continue on the educational track. It’s extremely competitive, but there’s definitely the chance to become a full archivist at the museum. But that could be years away, if ever.

        With the state troopers, no, not really. unless I wanted to stop being an archivist and move into middle management, which I don’t want to. I’m an archival person, not a police person, if that makes sense, so I’m not particularly interested in other police roles at this agency. I think as I grow in this role, there’s a chance I could come to have more influence over time, though.

    3. Hi there*

      It sounds to me like you don’t really want to move back to the museum and are considering it more for your partner’s sake than your own. Can you use the freedom you have in your job to make it more to your liking? I ran a 1-woman show for a very long time and felt very trapped in the role. At some point I decided that no one else knew my work well enough to offer a roadmap for change, and that I could shape the program as I saw fit. I started talking about my vision and taking baby steps to change how the program operates. It sounds like to miss being part of a team—can you create a committee to have more of a team feel, get more people invested in your work, and start a conversation about the issues you care about?

  86. Pascall*

    Is it wrong to be a little bit pleased that one of your coworkers is getting demoted (for reasons I do not know, whether it was requested or as a consequence) because it took forever to get completed tasks from them?

    I’m hoping that the person who replaces them will be much better at getting stuff back to me in a timely manner, but I can’t help but feel guilty that I’m excited to get someone new in that position. <_<

    2. RagingADHD*

      It would be meanspirited if you were just glad they got demoted because it hurt them.

      But it sounds like you’re looking forward to your job getting a bit easier and things working more smoothly. Nothing wrong with that at all!

    3. Not A Manager*

      Perhaps you’re not “pleased that your coworker is getting demoted,” but rather you are pleased at a *consequence* of that, which is that you will get a better coworker.

      If your coworker won the lottery and quit tomorrow, would that make you equally pleased? If so, it’s not about the demotion, it’s about your own work experience.

  87. Orbital93*

    I applied to a job a few months ago when I was feeling frustrated at my current job. A hiring manager from that company just emailed me yesterday that they were in a hiring freeze, but are now opening reqs again and asked if I’d still be interested in the position. I have obligations that would be very difficult to get out of that would make taking this new job a near impossibility right now. However, I am very interested in the job and this company down the line. I told my husband that I’m going to graciously say no, but to please keep me in mind in the future. He says I should continue down the application path just to see where it takes me and to practice for when I am able to change jobs. Thoughts?

    1. Free Meerkats*

      Are the obligations job or personal?

      If they’re job, take the offer and move on – you’re old job will survive. If personal, you need to evaluate which is more important now and in the future. Are you OK with staying where you are for an indeterminate time until another opportunity comes along? Will you resent the source of the obligation if the job you’re stuck in because you put their needs ahead of yours and the job gets more frustrating?

    2. Workerbee*

      Since you are interested despite obligations, I also say to continue down the path. You’ll get far more information about the position and company than you would if you decline now, you’ll help keep yourself and your skills in their radar, and you really just never know what can happen.

    3. Jenn*

      I would ask the new job about the hiring timeline before I made a decision. You could even explain it as you are still very interested in job, but you are in the midst of a large project at current job that you would like to/need to see through and you hope that new job’s timeline could accommodate that responsibility.

    4. voluptuousfire*

      I agree with your husband. You can always bow out of the process if needed. It’s interview practice and always good to know you’re a viable candidate. You can always use those obligations once you learn enough. Interviews are pretty much information expeditions, finding out if this is a business partnership to start.

    5. Annabeth Nass*

      My recommendation is to tell them you are still interested and accept an interview if offered. It’s always good to get interview experience and make contacts, especially because you are interested in both the job and the company. If it gets to the point where they make you an offer, you can decide then if you want to accept or decline. You never know how long a process will take, or how things could change between now and then.

    6. Orbital93*

      Thanks, everyone! I took your advice and emailed her back that I am still interested. Also, just to satisfy your possible curiosities, the two main obligations are having to pay my company back for my grad school tuition if I leave before August 2021 and breaking the lease on the house my husband and I rent if we leave before January 2022 (we just signed a 1 year agreement at the end of December). I guess I could say I would need those finances covered as part of my employment agreement (if it even gets that far!). I’ve read enough AAM to know that Alison says there’s never a “good” time to leave a job, so just leave whenever you have to. Even though my team would miss me for our big project deadlines in July and December this year (if our timelines hold), I know it wouldn’t be the end of the world. If the job the hiring manager was talking about is the one I think it is (which is unclear because she just said “the position” but I applied to two different but similar positions), this would be a pretty big step to get the visibility I want with a certain other company in the mid- to long-term. It would also move me and my husband to the area of the country we want to live in.

  88. JobSearcher*

    Update on my comment from last week: I thought I had been ghosted by a company I had interviewed with twice and taken a multi day written assessment for. Well I was wrong! I heard back from them Monday and was offered a full time paid internship, yay! They wanted me to start the 19th but using some of Alison’s language I told them I would need to give my current part time internship at least 2 weeks notice and they agreed to move my start date! Does anyone have any tips for starting a new job remotely? I really want to make a good impression as this company often hires their interns.

    2. Tabby Baltimore*

      AAM covered this in an Oct 2020 post titled “starting a new job when you’re working remotely.” You can find it by going to the AAM site and type in the “Search this Site” box: “new job” remote 2020 start* and when it retrieves your results, it should be the first item in the list (you’ll have to scroll down past a couple of ads). I’ve submitted the link, which will have to go into moderation, so you can try to find it this way, first, if you don’t want to wait for the link.

  89. Sled Dog Mama*

    Just had my 1 year work anniversary and annual review at work this week.
    My Boss only does Satisfactory/Unsatisfactory as a rating and I got Satisfactory on everything. The comments were the really great part though. All my coworkers (my supervisor is on site 1 day a month so my review involves a lot of him chatting with the staff that we provide service to) said they were really pleased to have me and “were pleased with how pleasant [I] am to work with”!!!!!! This is a huge deal since the last guy here almost lost us the contract by being a general Donkey’s rear end.
    One segment of our business was hit really hard by the COVID travel restrictions so no bonuses for anyone this year but the company has managed to avoid having to lay anyone off and is managing to give us all small increases! The company is only 25 people so I was worried that they wouldn’t even be able to do COL this year.

    1. Firecat*

      They apparently do some screening of scams but some still get through. I never used it since it was paid though.

    2. TextHead*

      I know a few that have used it successfully. It’s a legit posting site. WeWorkRemotely is another, but has far fewer postings.

  91. Green*

    With a lot of turnover happening recently, the manager position for my team is open. I’m thinking of trying for it, but I am newer, 29, and sometimes feel like I’m not the smartest person in the room (and I’m definitely not the most experienced) but my boss believes in me, and I want to see this program do well. Are there successful, “green” managers out there? Any advice, especially for those who managed people older than them? My first MO (if it works out) is to ask each person that would be managed about what worked well, what didn’t work well, what can I look to improve on.

    1. Allypopx*

      I was much younger than you in my first management position – the key is really to just not consider age a factor. Everyone in the situation is a professional, and you treat them all with individual dignity and respect. I’m not even sure everyone knew my age (which, if you can manage, is a great idea). It’s only an issue if you call attention to it.

      1. Green*

        That’s really helpful to hear. I try not to bring attention to it, unless someone starts bringing up age related banter and then I find it hard to avoid. I think though that my timidness/lower confidence at times can be telling of my age. How did you find the confidence to manage at that age?

        1. Allypopx*

          I don’t think confidence is inherently age-related, I think it has to do with experience. By the time I was managing I felt comfortable with my job and I knew what had to be done and how, and so I was comfortable directing others to do so. In terms of individual *management skills* (giving feedback, not micromanaging, helping the people under me develop, etc) this blog helped a ton. I made reading AAM part of my morning routine while I was having coffee and getting settled. If that’s the area you feel timid, it will get better with time and experience.

          But you say you lack self-confidence in your current position, right? Why is that? Have you gotten decent feedback? Do you understand the program and its goals? Do you come to work every day with a decent idea of what you’re supposed to do and how to do it? If the answer to any of those questions is “no”, then I’d work with your boss on what you need to do to feel more solid in that area. Otherwise…I know “believe in yourself, you got this!” doesn’t feel like helpful advice, but maybe you need to get out of your own way. Sometimes we get so stuck in our heads we create problems that aren’t there and inadvertently self-sabotage.

          And remember – first time managers ALWAYS make mistakes. You’re never perfect at anything the first time you do it, and no one expects you to be. The important thing is to be prepared for how you’ll respond to those mistakes. Take responsibility, learn from them, do better, and don’t let a few missteps derail a body of otherwise good work.

          1. Green*

            I gotcha. I’ve been in my role for less than a year, so I feel like I still have a lot to learn. I’m getting down the regulations right now. I think I do have experience, but your comment about self-sabotaging really resonates. It’s also a combo of me being one of the very few women in the office as well, which has been eating at my self esteem weirdly. I have received good feedback, but I don’t think I fully understand some of the program goals (or how those are set by my boss.) I’m getting a run down before he leaves.

            But yes, thank you for the reminder about making mistakes! I need to remember that I cannot and will not be perfect. Making mistakes are really hard (internally) for me and I’m working through this in therapy. Thanks again!

    2. Littorally*

      Not me, but my last manager was a green manager at 26 and he was phenomenal. It was less about being very smart (although he was) and much more about his temperament. He was very calm, very unflappable; you could come screaming to him with an emergency and he would absorb zero of your fluster, although he would handle urgent situations with an appropriate level of alacrity.

      Of what you’ve laid out, I think the only thing I would do differently is that in your shoes, I wouldn’t ask people what you could improve on — that sounds a little too much like asking for personal feedback. Instead, I’d ask them what they need from their manager to do their jobs optimally. You might also provide them these questions ahead of time, so they can spend some time thinking about it before you have your 1x1s.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      If you can recognize that you are not always the smartest person in the room and you can realize that you have more to learn then you have more on the ball than half the bosses out there.

      I was 30 something and supervising a few 50 something y/o people. One thing they said is that I always made sure they had enough info to do the job and not embarrass themselves.
      But you know, I think anyone of any age would say that was important to them.

  92. Workerbee*

    Mandatory “Read & Discuss” meetings—how to survive them?

    My org has periodic all-staff, internal events wherein we’re given a sizable sheaf of book excerpts, video and article links around a theme, told to read/watch them, and then are expected to discuss them within a framework of deep thinking questions. The meeting itself takes most of a day and is segmented into full group and breakout group discussions.

    The stated purpose is to see what the world needs done, within context of whatever theme was chosen, and how we in our org can come up with notions and ideas toward that.

    My trouble is, it all seems so pointless. We don’t actually ever DO anything with our newfound knowledge and idea sharing. We’re a bunch of privileged people taking a work day to sit around and listen to each other talk at length about shoulds and coulds and what ifs. We’re patting ourselves on the back without actually going into the community, or following up on an idea, or doing anything but talk.

    I hate it. But leadership expects participation. I do try to say something each time, but have heard I need to say more. Sure, I’m glad my thoughts are being solicited, but when I don’t have any thoughts because IT’S ALL SO FUTILE, I just…don’t say anything. In the meantime, we sit through people who talk at length but who also aren’t actually saying anything.

    How do you fake being this much of an engaged person when you abhor the wasted time and entitlement?

    1. Uhtcaere*

      Sounds like someone running these things misses university… I can’t tell the size of your org, or how frequent these meetings are, but is there a local volunteering / community outreach group or any willingness towards one? Could you start one or suggest redirecting the conference energy towards it? Could you find resources with a more practical or local bent and supply those to the group?

      Also, are they still doing these full-day in light of COVID? If not, or if they’re virtual, they might be easier to bear.

      I’d suggest having urgent work commitments, but if this is everyone and if this is coming down from the top, that might not fly. As a last resort, is it possible to have a stomach bug or a pressure headache or something on the day? Or accidentally schedule a medical appointment that’s hard to move? Not every time, but 1 time out of 4 or 1 out of 5…

      Short of that, nod while other people are talking, say “that’s a good point” as much as is practical, find someone to vent at, and remember what’s keeping you at this job (which hopefully outweighs the futility of all this–if it doesn’t, maybe that’s a sign to look around)

      1. Workerbee*

        These did indeed used to be in-person, but thankfully have moved to virtual.

        They are, alas, considered so important that we are just short of forced to schedule medical appointments around those days.

        This is a tiny org and that makes it harder to hide in these big meetings.

        That’s a good idea to try to redirect efforts outward! I’d like to think I’d honestly try to do that, but in thinking of this and other aspects of the job and company, it really just may come down to that despite the salary, most of my role, and a few people, this is not a good fit long-term.

        Especially as, in mulling further, any suggestion like that would be thrown straight into a committee. Committees here tend to do a lot of charts, revisions, and of course, talking.

        I will keep on with my I’m Paying Attention and Wow What a Good Point body language, and vent to the underground of equally dissatisfied folks as you suggest.

    2. The New Wanderer*

      May I recommend Sarah Cooper’s “100 Tricks to Appear Smart in Meetings”?

      Seriously though, I’ve had a number of meetings recently where I was getting really frustrated at the circular discussions and lack of forward progress and I basically asked various forms of “Okay but what are we doing about it?” And that helped in one of two ways – either a few people got focused on next steps and proposals for action, or the endless discussions continued and every once in a while, someone would refer back to me/my question so I appeared to have an outsized presence despite not saying anything else.

      Then again, it sounds like if you suggest that some action should be taken you risk being assigned “Come up with a list of actions to be discussed to death in committee.” I might still choose that option if the alternative is to listen to more empty blather…

  93. Free Meerkats*

    Our local health district, who is doing the vaccine rollout, has finally realized that our society really needs drinking water and wastewater treatment to function. So they moved us up to top tier for receiving vaccinations. My first dose is this afternoon!

    I’m holding out hope for growing tentacles as a side effect, but I’ll probably just feel crappy for a couple of days. C’Mon, Tentacles!!

    1. Lyudie*

      LOL someone on Twitter was part of the Pfizer trial and was hoping for tentacles, alas they did not get them (perhaps we follow the same person haha). From what I’ve heard, you might feel yucky for about a day and then be fine. Hope it all goes well for you :)

    2. Free Meerkats*

      I’m home from the shot at the drive-through event. Since I have a history of anaphylaxis, I had to sit there for 30 minutes instead of 15. No effect noted.

      Now, go, go gadget antibodies!

    3. anon24*

      I was hoping for super rage strength, or preferably my much longed for super power of weather control. Alas, all I got was a night of chills, aches, sore throat, and fever dreams.

      I am holding out much hope for round 2 though. I want to cast down lightning bolts on mine enemies. Cmon Pfizer!

  94. Emily Elizabeth*

    Happy Friday everyone! I wanted to know if anyone had any tips, starting points, or success stories of asking for benefits at a job that didn’t offer any previously. I am a preschool teacher, and I want to be prepared when contract negotiations for next school year occur to ask for a benefits package. We are paid very well comparatively for the field of early childhood education, but don’t currently have benefits, though I believe if presented correctly my director could be open to it. I’ve been lucky enough to stay on my parents’ insurance until now but next year I age out. I want to ask for what amounts to good coverage but have no idea what that would entail or where to start researching! My director would definitely be more receptive if I came to her with specifics. I’d appreciate any insight – thanks!

    1. Sleepy*

      When you say you don’t get any benefits, do you mean you don’t get any paid leave or sick time? If so, that’s outrageous and you should definitely receive it.

      Does your employer offer health insurance to any employee? If so, that should be your starting point, to find out what other employees are getting. Your boss isn’t going to go out looking for the perfect insurance package for you–you’ll be given a menu of options to choose from that your employer has already approved. As a business they should already have policies about insurance coverage and that should be in your employee handbook.

      If your boss doesn’t offer insurance to any employees, I think it’s unlikely they’ll offer it just to you. You could try looking on your local insurance exchange, see how much coverage would cost for you, and see if your employer would cover a portion.

      1. Emily Elizabeth*

        Thank you! Right now none of our 4 teachers get insurance; not sure about our administrative director. My co teacher and I are both planning on asking for it, so I wanted to prep us both early to at least make a case for it. We both have been praised this year a lot for our response to teaching this year and agreed we’d both rather get insurance than angle for a raise. We’re a very small and relatively young school, so I don’t think insurance is something my director has thought about much yet either way, but may now that the school’s been open 5 years.

    2. WellRed*

      If they have an insurance plan you’ll have to take what’s available on offer. If they don’t offer insurance, I can’t imagine you’ll be able to research it enough on your own to present options. It’s very complicated stuff. However, you’d need to start by seeing what insurers are available in your area. Deductibles, premiums. How much should they your contribution be? Will there be HSA or FSA? Drug coverage? Does your state have a robust health care exchange? Maybe that will give you some ideas?

    3. Annony*

      Insurance is expensive and small group plans can be tricky. You don’t get the same level of savings as large companies do and if people have different health needs and can be really hard to find a plan everyone is happy with. Negotiating for the plan you want is going to be difficult. It may come down to what you are offered. I do think you should take a look at the exchange in your state and get a feel for what plans cost and what coverage you get at bronze, silver, gold and platinum levels.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        This. We tried getting small group health and it was off the charts crazy expensive. There is NO argument that would sway us, we don’t have that kind of money period.

        I think a good counter point would be to offer a group or collection of small work places who have gotten insurance as a group.

  95. Sleepy*

    I work at a small nonprofit that has a slightly tricky situation with a good employee…

    “Sally” moved to another state during the pandemic, initially framed as temporary. Now she says it’ll be permanent. She’s a good employee and working remotely isn’t a concern; furthermore, she disclosed personal reasons that living in Other State is important to her. However, we aren’t set up to have an employee in Other State–we don’t have a business license, insurance, etc there…and Other State’s income tax rate is higher, meaning that Sally would be taking home less money.

    My boss is open to exploring ways to keep her on–she definitely adds value. However, I’m concerned about how much time, energy, and money it will consume for the organization to set up in Other State. I’m also concerned that Sally will grow dissatisfied when her salary goes down due to the tax situation and end up leaving anyway. I’ve definitely heard of similar situations where the person was converted to contractor status, but in my opinion that would be illegal here.

    Has anyone dealt with a similar situation? How hard was it to set up in the new state, and did you keep the employee in the long run?

    1. hbc*

      Honestly, the way I’d explore keeping her on is to see if you can adjust her work/contribution/independence to make her legally and ethically a contractor. My small company had to have people in other states, and it was always a logistical problem. The (national, well-regarded, does-this-all-the-time) payroll company never managed to put everything in place in the timeline they said, and always messed something up with a new state being added.

      When you’ve got the effective pay cut, it’s not worth the headache.

    2. Lifelong student*

      Not addressing your big question about how hard it is to register in a new state because that varies from state to state. However, it can be a big deal not just to do, but also the continuing reporting obligations.

      I do want to address the issue of Sally’s take home. That is all on her- she will owe taxes on her income as a resident of the new state without regard to the fact that her employer is in another state. If that makes her dissatisfied, she bears the responsibility.

      It is possible for someone to be transitioned to a contractor role- but then the contractor pays not only the employee contribution to social security and medicare- the contractor also pays what the employer was paying. So that would be even more taken from the gross pay which was in your budget!

    3. Rupruct Vandesnatch*

      “However, we aren’t set up to have an employee in Other State …”

      Sorry to break this to you but you already have an employee in Other State. Once she moved there, you needed to take care of all the appropriate paperwork and bureaucracy. Your company needs to take care of this immediately, and they need to look into whether failing to file earlier imposes any penalties or fines.

      As for Sally, she needs to find an accountant that can walk her through any tax issues associated with her working remote. For some states this can be complicated.

  96. Ms. Geedub*

    Hello! I’m needing help. I currently work as a manager at a smallish non-profit and I’m wanting to get into Project Management. I’ve reached out to a few friends in the field and they assure me I don’t need a PM degree but I also don’t have direct PM experience. I’m happy to start at something entry level and work my way up but it seems like every PM position on LinkedIn requires a fair amount of experience. I’ve been looking for assistant PM jobs or even internships but I’m not having any luck. I’m taking some free PM courses online to get myself more comfortable with the lingo and I’m considering taking the CSM (certified scrum master) course but does anyone else have advice for how I can break into this field? I’d appreciate any suggestions, thanks!

    1. BlueBelle*

      I would look for a position within a project management group. So maybe PM Coordinator, Product management, process management within IT or HR. You might also examine what about Project Management interests you and see if there is a different title or career path that matches that interest. Good luck!

    2. AnonPi*

      Do a little reading about types of project management, and you may want to decide if you are more interested in traditional/waterfall PM, or in agile (which includes scrum). They’re very different, and different fields use different styles. Construction for instance typically uses traditional/waterfall, IT agile (scrum in particular). If you are looking for jobs in an area that uses one or the other, that’s the type of PM you want to study for.

      If you think you may want to do traditional (or aren’t sure and want to learn a bit of both), then look into the PMI CAPM. It’s an entry level certification that doesn’t require experience. The PMP is the higher level cert that does require experience, which just changed this month to include more agile/hybrid methodology, so it’s becoming a bit of a more well rounded certification (IMHO).

      For scrum, there is the CSM or PSM I. For general agile (includes scrum, kanban, XP, etc) I’d recommend PMI’s ACP (agile cert. practioner), although it does require some experience.

      Typically a coordinator or assistant PM are entry level roles. If you are interested in traditional, also look for entry level project controls jobs. A lot of people frankly get experience without formal PM designations. They take on projects that already exist in their job to get experience. You may have more experience than you realize as a manager for a non-profit. If you worked on more than just managing operations, but creating unique products/services, then those are projects. If you haven’t already, read through PMI’s website and some of the numerous blogs online about entering PM. They have a lot of great advice about deciding if you have the right/enough experience.

  97. WestVirginiaLady*

    I am getting ready to be evaluated for adult ADHD. It would explain a lot if that is the case, but I’m wondering if I’m in the right job.

    I work for a Worker’s compensation insurance company as a claims intake rep. We get calls all the time as well as faxes, emails and IMs. I also answer basic medical billing questions as well, so I get interrupted a lot.

    I’ve been told by my current boss I’m impulsive. I have trouble remembering the correct processes at times and trouble focusing. I am not organized and have trouble prioritizing. I know that my boss is very frustrated with me. She knows I’m getting evaluated but I don’t think this position is able to accommodate me.

    If I do get a diagnosis of ADHD, I’m wondering if anyone has suggestions for an industry or position someone like me would excel in? I have trouble learning IT and I’m 51, so I don’t mind taking a certification but no more college.

    2. Allypopx*

      As someone who got diagnosed with ADHD as an adult, I feel you. For me it’s been less a question of “is this a good job for me” and more a question of “how do I make this job work for me”. If I get distracted can I take two seconds to jot a note to remind myself where I left off. I have lists of what I need to get done, and I keep them in my direct line of sight. Organization is a HUGE issue for me as well, but trial and error (not the most helpful advice I know) has helped me figure out what works best for my brain. I know a lot of people with ADHD really like the Pomodoro technique, which could be worth looking into. ADHD groups on Facebook (ADHD and Chill is my personal favorite) are good for finding people who understand your brain and can give advice or commisseration. Medication/therapy/whatever treatment or management plan you decide on can also make a big difference. I wouldn’t make any big life choices right now – and recognize if you’re itching to rework your life around this diagnosis, part of that is you being impulsive. As hard as it is, waiting and seeing where the chips fall is your best bet.

      1. Allypopx*

        As an aside, getting a formal diagnosis as an adult woman can be incredibly difficult. If you’re feeling this way, I’d look into ADHD support regardless of what a doctor says. Misdiagnosis and underdiagnosis is a huge issue in the community, and even if you really don’t have ADHD if you have ADHD-like-symptoms some of the same methods and resources may be helpful.

    3. RagingADHD*

      Some ADHDers thrive in positions with a lot of personal interaction and multitasking. Others prefer a quiet environment that allows deep focus. Some are concrete thinkers that do best with physical tasks, others are highly abstract and excel at spinning ideas.

      There are always personal idiosyncrasies and temperament — there’s no single profile of ADHD.

      Getting diagnosed and discovering how ADHD affects you, and how to work with it, is a process that takes up a lot of mental & emotional energy. Unless your job is in imminent danger, it’s not a great time to job hunt. For the time being, it will behoove you to stay in a known environment and experiment with different approaches – that way you can really tell what’s working!

      Meds can make a big difference with impulsiveness, focus, and working memory (which is what allows you to return to a task after an interruption instead of getting lost in the weeds).

      More complex stuff like checking procedures, organization and setting priorities require systems and tools. Most of the time, we have to assemble those systems and tools ourselves because they are so personalized.

      Meds also help you think through creating those systems, and remember to use them consistently.

      Post-it notes, checklists, and recurring reminders are your friends. I also found the ideas in the books “Getting Things Done” and “Work Clean” very helpful for thinking about how to work effectively.

      “Smart but Scattered” also has a really useful assessment of which executive functions are your strengths & which are weaknesses, along with ideas for leveraging the strengths to overcome the weaknesses.

      The best job for you will be one that you find interesting and rewarding, and where you feel like your skills are valued. So maybe think about the things within this job that feel that way – do you like helping people and answering questions? Do you like learning new things? Whatever you liked & got excited about this job or prior ones is going to lead you toward your next job.

  98. hbc*

    Looking for opinions on how common/normal it is to be given all your PTO/vacation at the beginning of the year without any restrictions on usage or payout.

    Context: We apparently have a set up where you get no (or very little vacation) your first year but then your full amount on Jan 1. As long as you give two week’s notice, you’re entitled to the full payout if you work at all in January. I found that out when we had a guy resign 12/15 before going on vacation, then come in for about 6 hours on 1/4 and get 15 days of vacation paid out. I thought that was crazy, but our parent company has the same set up, with completely different origins. Seems to me like it’s encouraging lousy behavior on both sides–the guy wasn’t reasonably trying to work in 2021, and the company would have been much better off firing him when he gave notice.

    Anyway, I’d be grateful to get opinion, because I’m trying to figure out how much capital to spend on changing it. Especially interested if anyone prefers it for reasons other than the fact that it makes PTO administration super easy.

    1. Reba*

      In my world, you can schedule and even use/”advance” PTO before you have accrued it. So, I can take a 2 week vacation in February even though I don’t have all those days technically in my bucket yet. (I don’t know what would happen if I then quit and would owe, so to speak, the days I had had advanced to me.)

      It sounds to me like this one dude definitely took advantage of the system, but unless that’s happening a lot I’m not sure it’s something that needs to change. With almost any system, a certain amount of rule bending is going to occur, and correcting it might not be worth the morale cost of making things a little harder for everyone else.

    2. Malarkey01*

      I don’t think I’d even consider what he did as taking advantage. If you don’t get any leave the first year, I would consider the Jan 1st bucket as my previous year’s earned leave (especially if their idea is that they don’t want you taking time off the first year while training- which isn’t unheard of).

      For only 2.5 weeks of vacation I wouldn’t spend time changing this. I would not give notice in December though just to be safe.

    3. PollyQ*

      I worked for a company where you got all your vacation as a “lump sum” on 1/1, although I don’t remember the rules about what happened if you left mid-year but had already used your vacation.

      Before you expend any effort in changing it, I’d try to find out how much it’s actually costing your company to do it this way. Sure, it’s not “fair” in some sense that this person got a year’s worth of vacation pay for 1 week’s work, but how much is this really affecting the company’s bottom line? Also note that changing it (without implementing a way people can get an “advance” on future vacation days) is guaranteed to be a drag on morale. So, possibly a “cure is worse than the disease” situation.

    4. Annony*

      I wouldn’t spend any capital on changing it unless you are going to address the lack of vacation time in the first year. They way it is set up now, you work for a year to earn the vacation days for next year. It is essentially back pay. Therefore it is only really encouraging lousy behavior from the company if they start firing people in December to avoid vacation pay out.

    5. Stephanie*

      I’m not sure about payout (I think they just cap a payout to two weeks, iirc), but my MegaCorp basically has an honor system for vacation where you just put your days on your manager’s calendar and can take all the days starting from January 1. So far, I haven’t heard any major issues…I think it does make PTO administration easy and gives employees flexibility so they don’t have to wait to take a day until they “earn” it.

    6. hbc*

      Thanks to all who replied. To be clear, I would be changing the whole “vacation in arrears” structure, including the first year without vacation. That’s the worst part to me–someone who starts in a November and leaves in a February gets a much better deal than someone who starts in February and leaves in November.

  99. AutolycusinExile*

    Payroll question!

    I’m an hourly employee, non-exempt (but part time, so that isn’t often relevant). I work a coverage-based job which we’ve been doing remotely since Covid started spreading here in the US. In order to do our job, we have to use a VPN and remotely access an on-site computer via the computer we have at home. Yesterday the technology my company uses to facilitate that failed. I’m not sure exactly what happened, but it stopped about half of us from being able to log in to anything at all, which meant that we were completely unable to do any aspect of our jobs. I immediately got in touch with our IT guy, who was aware of the problem but did not have a fix for it. Long story short, he basically told me to wait for his phone call, as he’d reach out once he had a solution he could implement. I kept trying to log in to the system every thirty minutes or so just in case it cleared up on its own, but the system never worked and he hasn’t found a solution yet. There’s a non-zero chance I’ll be unable to work my Friday shift as well, at this point, and potentially also my Saturday shift – essentially missing a full week of work.

    Should I expect to be paid for this time? I feel like I was essentially engaged to wait, since I couldn’t go do anything significant during my shift (given that he could theoretically call at any moment and get me logged in), and also because I kept checking in intermittently – though in fairness they did not ask me to do that. If the system had gone down while we were working in person, we’d have just been sitting in the office doing the same amount of nothing, but I know we would have been paid for our time then since we would have been quite literally ‘at work’. Does the remote nature of the current situation change things? Or the fact that it was the whole 8-hour shift, as opposed to a shorter period of time?

    I’d really appreciate having some understanding of the payroll/labor laws involved in case they don’t pay me for these hours. Would I have any standing to object? Googling things didn’t offer much clarity, and I know I’m obviously biased in favor of getting paid so I’m not confident in my interpretation of the law. I’m not in California, if that matters! :P

    1. Firecat*

      You should be paid for the time. You were engaged to wait, as it is sometimes called. Basically, although you couldn’t work on the things you wanted, you weren’t off work you had to wait for their call and keep checking in to see if you could work. That’s work.

      If they had said – it’s going to be down for 4 hours, take the afternoon for yourselves, and then let you have that time even if it suddenly opened up 30 minutes later, then maybe they could not pay you.

    2. PollyQ*

      You should absolutely be paid for that time, and you’re right, it’s exactly the same as if you’d been in the office with a tech or power failure.

      1. Anono-me*

        Sorry, early post.

        If your manager said to wait for a call and to be ready to go right away. Then I think the paid to wait is in effect.

        If your manager judt said that they would call you when the system was up. It starts to get murky and I would recommend following up with your manager before you hover around your computer all day tomorrow .

        1. AutolycusinExile*

          Fortunately, he got me back in about 20 minutes after my Friday shift was scheduled to start, so I should get paid for Friday and Saturday as usual! Worst case scenario, I can live without one day’s pay, though obviously I’d rather not.

          Unfortunately, my company sucks at communication. I never had any contact with a manager because neither of us could get into the system, which is the only way to communicate. No, we have neither work email nor work phones. It’s a hassle.
          The IT guy tried a few things while we were on the phone together, couldn’t fix it, and said he’d call me back. No specification of his timeline or plans, which was why I kept trying to log in intermittently. I’d have asked him for more detail, but from experience he wouldn’t have given any clarification anyway. No one explicitly asked me to keep trying to get in but management is aware that I did so, and that is what the standard procedure usually is if you can’t get in. However, we have literally no policies about anything that isn’t attendance and dress code (can you tell we’re a small family-owned business? *sigh*).

          I guess we’ll just see what happens :/ Fingers crossed!

  100. Rhymetime*

    I’ve been in my job for a few years. From the beginning, it’s been difficult for me. In my previous positions, I was a top performer with glowing performance reviews. Despite my best efforts, I’m in the mediocre zone where I am and haven’t been happy there pretty much since the beginning. (Of course the two are interconnected in a negative feedback loop.) It took me a while to get to the decision that it’s not a good fit for me and that I need to leave, because I have the best salary I’ve ever had and as I near retirement age, that has been a big consideration. It was freeing to finally make the decision and I’ve started applying for other jobs. I know that in the big picture when so many people are out of work, I’m lucky to have a well-paying job that I can do remotely, and I’m thankful for that. Nonetheless, it’s a slog right now and I’m feeling burned out. It’s going to be a while before I find a new position, and I could use advice about how to stay motivated and on target in my current role until then.

    1. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      Ouch, that is tough. I’m sorry you’re stuck in that type of a position. Hopefully some of this advice/perspective will be helpful:

      1) Let go of trying to go beyond “mediocre.” The execerpt AAM posted earlier this week on “How to be a Slacker” applies here.
      2) Focus on the parts of your job that you can do well, in terms of your thoughts, time, and energy.
      3) Focus on being a good *colleague/employee* (e.g. respond to requests in a timely manner, show up to meetings prepared, turn assignments in on time and complete even if they aren’t stellar in quality).

      Consider if the above could help you get to retirement with this nice salary. It’s hypocritical of me to say that, since I tie a lot of my self-worth/identity to my job performance; it’s something that may be healthier if I learned to disentangle. Maybe that identity thing also applies to you and it might be helpful to try to disentangle it as well?

      1. Rhymetime*

        I unfortunately can’t afford to retire for some years yet. I didn’t see the AAM post earlier this week and I’ll definitely check it out. Your suggestions are helpful, and I really appreciate your comment.

  101. Jules the Goblin*

    This is a really low-stakes question so I’ll chuck it into the open thread and see if anyone has any thoughts.

    I recently changed to a different position in my company and it’s much better for my sanity! I have a much more caring boss and a cool new team.

    There’s just this one little thing that annoys me whenever I hear it — multiple people on the team referring to team members as “the girls” and “the boys”. It’s very bizarre and I don’t know why anyone does it. Our projects are not divided by gender, my work doesn’t feel like “work typically delegated to women”, etc. We all do very similar work, just divided by different types of partner companies.

    So my question is: do I bring it up? My boss really does seem like he cares and would listen to me. But is it worth addressing? I am queer, very active in queer circles and my wife is trans. I don’t like people being grouped by perceived gender when it’s irrelevant. I don’t like my team of 4 being described as “the girls”, which is infantilizing, even if people conversely call another part of the team “the boys”. I would like it much better if people just said “the X partners team” and “the Y partners team”.

    Is it worth asking my boss to ask a team of a dozen people to try to rethink their verbiage? Or should I just deal with it?

    1. Littorally*

      I don’t think it’s a good thing to spend capital with your boss on when you’re new. For the time being, I would use the “Y Partners” and “X Partners” phrasing myself, and take some time to figure out the vibe of the team, see how people are in general ways, and learn the lay of the land and build up credit and capital with the rest of the team(s) before advocating for a change.

      (And I am, btw, trans. This would be an excruciating situation to find myself in. So you have my profound sympathy!)

      1. Reba*

        I agree with this. I think once you know the team better, you’ll have a better idea of how to proceed, somewhere between “boss intervention” and “do nothing.” You may be able to effect this change in a casual, person to person way rather than involving your boss (unless your boss is one of the offenders!). To be clear, it is very annoying! You are right to be annoyed!

      2. Malarkey01*

        I agree on the capital, but that said sometimes being new to a team gives some leeway to point out that something everyone is used to is odd or uncomfortable. If the boss really does seem open I think there’s a chance to raise it and to do so in a non confrontational way as something I’ve noticed and wondered (although if you wanted to make a bigger deal this is an issue that would justify it).

    2. Analyst Editor*

      I’d say let it go. I think it is often forgotten that these norms forbidding all gendered language and mining words for oppression is something that’s been sort of artificially brought into corporate speak from the top down, or from the side down via HR or the internet. Regular people, especially those not online, don’t bother with that stuff, think it’s nonsense and bristle when you try to nitpick things they say.

      1. D3*

        Soooo “regular people” shouldn’t have to care about using terms that are sexist, demeaning and sometimes hurtful? And we shouldn’t try to improve things?
        Wow.

      3. PollyQ*

        Avoiding overly or needlessly gendered language in the workplace has been going on for about 50 years in the US, so it’s not at all an “internet” thing. And many adults dislike being referred to as children.

      4. Homo neanderthalensis*

        Yes bigots often bristle when asked to stop using bigoted language. That doesn’t mean you allow it.

        1. Maggie*

          While I don’t agree with what the above commenter wrote, its a stretch to refer to calling people a boy or girl at “bigoted” language. If it bothers OP just bring it up politely.

          1. Homo neanderthalensis*

            ” it is often forgotten that these norms forbidding all gendered language and mining words for oppression” ” Regular people” “think it’s nonsense and bristle when you try to nitpick things they say.” that original commenter is hardly talking about just calling folks boy or girl. And frankly- even if the intent is not bigoted, to a trans person it very well is. Of course I’m currently in this dilemma myself and doing nothing about it myself as a non-out Non Binary person so I suppose something about not being included in “regular people” got my hackles up.

      6. Tinker*

        Everything else aside, when something is brought into an organization from the top down, i.e. management has identified the thing as a priority, don’t people usually favor doing, or at least acting favorably disposed to, the thing?

        Also, nowadays the Internet is a bit of a thing that people use, even lots of regular people, and you are on it right now.

      7. Tania J*

        Wow. What an ignorant, out of touch, rude, thoughtless, cruel thing to say. I hope you are not in any position of authority, and that you are not placed, now or indeed ever, to affect others with this appallingly stupid thinking.

        I genuinely hope you never have to experience how painful these words can be, but I also very much hope you learn to be a decent human being at some point. For the sake of the people in your life who deserve so much better than the current you.

      8. Jules the Goblin*

        If you think that “forbidding all gendered language” is nonsense, I don’t think you’ve been reading Alison’s website very closely. This is something a lot of us *regular people* care about very much.

        I’m days late on this which in ~internet time~ is forever, so I’m not going to debate you. I just want you to know that your comment is rude, implying that my concerns are nitpicky and nonsensical is rude, and I hope you live long enough to rethink your opinion that unnecessarily gendered language is something only “internet people” care about.

    3. Mockingjay*

      Try with the team members before going to the boss.

      Next time someone uses the phrase “girls,” you can say something like: “hey, we’re all adults here, not kids. Could you please call us by name instead? Thanks!”

      Is there an org or flow chart designating the teams? Use that to say, “hey, we’re the software team, not kids!” Mention the teams frequently. In a meeting, recap things: “so the software team will work on getting the bugs fixed in the next week, then the document team updates the user guide.”

      Alison has lots of threads on name and title preference. The most successful fix is to matter-of-factly mention what you or your team want to be called, then correct going forward. Most times people get the message. If that doesn’t work, then talk to the boss.

  102. Cake Anon*

    Tldr; how do you escalate a crisis due to staffing shortage? When is it okay to go over the head of the boss who doesn’t seem to care enough?

    Let’s say I work at a chain of cake shops. Usually a cake shop has 3-6 cake decorators depending on the traffic they get based on popularity/location. I co-ordinate different things between the shops so while my work is mainly independent, I sometimes pitch in with cake decorating if there’s a cake decorator shortage, it’s a job I have familiarity with.

    One cake shop is in Sugarville, and the main cake decorator Jane has really been overworked for about as long as I can remember. The Sugarville boss had hired two other decorators but only Jane did big cakes, the other two just did cupcakes, even though Jane tried to teach bigger cakes to both of them. Anyway, long story short, one of them left for a different job and one of them got re-assigned to a different cake shop for reasons still unclear. So now Jane is alone, and she has an intern/trainee, but the intern is not paid, she’s part time, and she’s been missing shifts due to varied reasons, so there’s no way they hire her once the internship wraps.

    I’ve been helping out and both my boss and another cake coordinator have talked to Sugarville boss about this situation. Nothing has been done about it. I can’t help out all the time so for the most part Jane has been alone, dealing with the Christmas cake rush season and all the rest of it. The intern is there maybe about 60% of the time but obviously that’s not enough – there need to be 3 full-time employees to run a smooth ship.

    Should I encourage my boss to go over the head of Sugarville boss to regional manager about this? This situation is going to lead to a lot of customer loss – people don’t want undecorated cakes, or cakes that go undecorated simply because Jane cannot handle the workload on her own, and now she’s also refusing to do OT because she’s got so many hours of OT it’s no longer viable (OT is paid in days off, which she cannot go on because she’s the only decorator). I just took some phone calls for their shop today and got yelled at by many customers, understandably so, but there’s really nothing more me or Jane can do. I can only help out so much. I’m getting stressed just thinking about it.

    1. Firecat*

      what do you mean “OT is paid in days off”. Are you saying that flex her OT hours in the same week with days off? Because if they are flexing her hours over a week to prevent paying her OT then that is illegal. In fact even flexing the days OT in california is illegal.

      It sounds like you are working for a terrible company from the OT situation and being so severely understaffed.

      1. Cake Anon*

        I’m not in the US, in our country it works a bit differently but I’m no expert on it. Based on my understanding if you work OT you can take it as paid time off if your boss agrees to it. You can also “bank it” and use it alongside seasonal time off. Like work some OT during rush season around Xmas and use it as extra paid days off during summer.

        However, you might be right about “terrible company”. Because it’s a chain and I know many of the shops are doing excellently, run by really good managers, I tend to rationalize it as Sugarville being one bad apple but maybe there is something about the company itself that allows this kind of bad situation to develop.

      2. Construction Safety*

        Re. “Terrible company”, not to mention that unpaid interns can’t do real work.

    2. Littorally*

      It sounds like you’re in a position where you have a good knowledge of how things between different stores, so I think you’re well-positioned to push for more. Going over the Sugarville boss to the regional boss is a reasonable step at this point.

      Also, if you’re in the US and not the government (and it sounds like you aren’t), paying in comp time is generally not legal.

    3. Reba*

      I think you can mention it to your boss or ask her if there is anything she’s considering doing about Sugarville. Or you could tell her about the angry customer calls and ask if you can report them up somewhere. But it’s really not your circus. It may be that that location will fail before the parent company notices.

      Is the unpaid internship legal where you are?

      1. Cake Anon*

        Yes, it’s legal.

        I will talk to my boss about the angry customer calls and situations I witnessed and ask her to talk to regional manager about it. I also agree it’s not really my circus. I witnessed a similar situation at a different company a few years back and in that situation there were heavy repercussions, like the location manager getting fired and them losing about 30% of their customer traffic due to bad service.

    4. Rachel in NYC*

      If you are getting phone calls from angry customers then yes, it’s time to move this up the ladder and focus on figuring out what the problem is.

  103. Sylvan*

    My editor wanted me to simplify my writing. Okay. I did it. She wanted me to use an eighth-grade vocabular and grammar. Okay. I did it. I used Hemingway to make sure that I was on the right track.

    Now, she has declared war on commas. She has certain words I’m not supposed to use, but sometimes she changes her mind about them and starts adding them to my work. And then, she chooses new words that I can’t use. Now, I’m just memorizing her preferences and regurgitating variations on the same editor-approved page over and over, which she still doesn’t like. She just doesn’t hate it.

    Other editors like my work when it ends up on their desks instead of hers. Other editors allow the other copywriters to use words, phrases, and sentence structures that mine doesn’t allow. The hell? Is she trying to manage me out or something?

    1. Allypopx*

      I doubt she’s trying to edit you out, she just sounds really particular and high strung. I’m sorry, that would drive me up a wall.

      1. Sylvan*

        Yeah, you’re right that she’s not trying to edit me out. I think I’ve been successfully driven up the wall lol.

    2. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      I’m not a writer, so take this with a grain of salt: It sounds like she’s just terrible at editing and would be better suited as a writer, because it sounds like she’s trying to write the piece INSTEAD of you.

      My understanding is that a good editor helps bring out a writer’s voice (within the general boundaries of the company’s style guide), which isn’t what your editor is doing at all.

      1. Sylvan*

        Oh, something just clicked. Yes, it is like she’s writing the piece instead of me. And she’s a much better writer than I am, so if I were her, I might want to do the same thing!

    3. Girasol*

      Some managers feel that they haven’t done their job if they can’t show an employee where there’s room for improvement, even if they can’t really find any. I’ve had managers that said, “This isn’t that bad, but you did A when I really wanted B. Do it over,” and when I changed it, “Why did you do B when A is better? Go change it,” and then, “This is okay but have you heard of application C? Download it now and redo this.” I had a good relationship and got good reviews from these people so it wasn’t that I was under-performing. It was just their way of filling a gap in real management skills with a bit of hand-wavy micromanagement.

  104. AnonPi*

    So almost a month after I was supposed to be notified if I got a job I’d applied for (and thus presumed I hadn’t gotten it), I got a surprise email this week with an offer. The kicker – they offered no pay increase (and technically when I did the math, it came out to $4 less a year!) This is an internal position, so they justified it by stating that even though the new position was in a different job category, the pay band is the same, and after all they had to take into consideration the other employees and be fair to them?! Uh, no, I’m not taking a job that would have more responsibility, more hours including evenings/weekends w/ no overtime (it’s exempt), and cut my sick leave in half (their belief is exempt people have a month to make up the time, unlike weekly/nonexempt), without a pay increase! I’m flabbergasted. I suspected they wouldn’t offer what I wanted, but still to offer no increase (and technically less!) has taken me aback.

    Admittedly after I thought I hadn’t gotten it, and got to thinking about it, I feel like I may have dodged a bullet – they had posted this job along with another similar job several times in the last 3-4 years, I had some concerns about demands on my time (ie could’ve been hard to take off for appts, vacation), etc. But now I’m concerned my options for any position at this company may be rather limited if this is the response I get for a job that should have definitely paid more. And unless I move, options in this area are rather limited due to overall low pay for this region. I’ve been searching for over two years now, and the only two offers I’ve had offered no pay increase. So my job prospects just suck. I’m so frustrated.

    1. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      Argh, I’m frustrated for you. I’m sorry :/

      And, yes, I totally agree with you: Their “reasoning” is terrible!! The translation is in my head is: “We are just trying to squeeze as much out of our employees as we can until they burn out, then we’ll kick them out for ‘under-performing’ and then hire someone else who doesn’t know better.”

      …I’m not bitter, nope, not at all.

  105. So tired*

    Going on my 4th week at my new job and for the last 2, the person that was supposed to train me has been out and quarantined. My first two weeks were 1/2 holidays, so we weren’t at work for most of them. I’ve been working extra hours and I am exhausted. My boss has been great and pitching in and my coworker has been doing what they can from home, but OMG it’s a lot. I cannot even comprehend how one person was ever able to do this job and keep up. Please keep your fingers crossed that coworker doesn’t come down with covid symptoms between now and Tues.

    1. Lizzie*

      Dear So Tired – the last person doing your job LEFT- maybe is ISN’T possible for one person to do the job and keep up!
      Whenever someone does extra unpaid hours to meet a job’s requirements it creates a false impression of how many hours the job requires. Sometimes management exploits this knowledge, and sometimes they are unaware of it and genuinely believe it can be done in a certain time. Jobs can also expand well beyond their original parameters without extra hours ever being allocated, and so the poor worker runs faster and faster but can never actually keep up.
      I have seen this happen many, many times in all sorts of work environments. So please keep in mind that even when you have had appropriate training, the job’s requirements may be unrealistic. It’s too soon for you to tell yet. Eventually you will be familiar enough with the role to be able to look at your job description, and look at the actual work required and the time accounted for each aspect, and see if it is workable. Maybe one day you will be putting a good case to the boss for splitting the job or adding another worker.
      In brief- it is natural to be overwhelmed at the start of a job when it is all new to you. Don’t freak out, do lots of self care, switch to emergency survival mode and minimise household tasks if you can, simplify your home routines for a month, eat your vegetables, early to bed – it will all look different in a month’s time. Good luck to you, and I hope you start to feel more relaxed about the job very soon.

  106. MyEggoIsPreggo*

    Does anyone know the “normal” time to tell a manager that one is pregnant? I’m in Germany, so I can’t just assume that the US norm holds.

    Thanks :)

    1. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

      Congratulations/Gratuliere! I think you might have more luck finding German-specific norms on a German-focused site, but (at least in my experience) many women choose to wait to announce until after the 12 week mark as the risk of miscarriage is much lower after that point. Some women in the US choose to wait a pretty long time to tell their boss for fear of being pushed out, but Germany has much stronger worker protections and a much longer maternity leave so perhaps the norm is to inform one’s manager earlier.

      Herzliche Glueckwuensche!

      1. MyEggoIsPreggo*

        Danke :) I’m also going to ask my friend (who is a German native and has children) but having more than one source of info is reassuring.

        1. IchKriegDieKrise*

          I’m based in Germany. I waited till I was three months pregnant to officially announce (I had to tell the person I shared an office with earlier since I was experiencing some noticeable symptoms and I was afraid she would think I was terminally ill). Anyway, my employer seemed surprised I waited so long…. My feeling is that if you work somewhere where there might be dangers (with kids, with chemicals, lifting, etc.) you let them know so tthey can remove you from those tasks or have you not work during pregnancy (you still get paid). So it seems overall waiting is longer than three months is not done. Finally, since maternity leave is more generous, it gives your employer time to hire cover if needed. Final caveate- I work in German public sector, where they’re excellent at following not just letter of law, but also its spirit. So private sector may not be as perfect.

  107. Analytical Tree Hugger*

    Mostly a rant, but I would appreciate any advice on how to improve:

    Ugh, I’m terrible at writing exercises for interviews. I’m realizing a big part of what made me a “strong” writer at my last job was:
    1) Most of my immediate colleagues weren’t strong writers, so I was only “strong” by comparison, rather than objectively.
    2) I knew the company I worked for really well and had a deep understanding of what they did, but I’m terrible at writing more ad hoc on subjects that are a stretch for me.

    Sigh…looking for a new job is lame. Oh well, I’m used to rejections by now.

    1. Reluctantly Jobhunting*

      Have you considered a writing class? Writing and communicating efficiently and clearly well valued skills in most industries, so it would not only help you in the hiring process but would add to your skill set

    2. PollyQ*

      Are you sure you’re bad at it, or is this possibly a matter of unreasonably high standards/unreasonable self-critical ideas?

      I wonder if this is something you could practice on your own. E.g., turn on a random TV station, and take whatever they’re talking about as your assigned subject, then write some number of words or amount of time.

  108. ThePear8*

    Discussion question! In group/team projects, which do you think is worse: a team member who never does their work, or someone who does it but so poorly someone else has to pretty much completely redo it anyway?

    Came up with the question after taking an online class that had a group project (not an awesome idea for an online class), and was frustrated that one of my group members clearly had no clue what she was doing and was just BS-ing her way through it (despite things being easily google-able or clearly laid out in assignment instructions) and I had to pretty much redo all of her work to make it even begin to make sense. Another person I know who’s in the class was complaining their entire group stood them up for meetings and didn’t do any work! So I thought it’d be interesting to discuss with others…which is worse?

    1. D3*

      I recently took an online class with a group project, and in the live session where the professor was going over the requirements and how it all would work, someone asked her “If someone in our group is not carrying their fair share or is submitting subpar work, how would you like us to handle it?”
      It led to a really good discussion with the 20 or so students in the class and the instructor. And I didn’t hear of any groups that had any slackers this time around, which has NEVER happened in any class I’ve ever taken that had group work.
      I honestly don’t know which is worse, but I hate school group work because there never is any individual accountability like there often is in the work place.

      1. ThePear8*

        Wow! That’s awesome that discussion happened. In this case, part of the assignment did include having to do an individual peer evaluation at the end where we submitted a report on how we felt our group members contributed, and my understanding is that it would have an affect on their grade, but that unfortunately doesn’t seem to have stopped people from slacking off :/

  109. Reluctantly Jobhunting*

    I am starting to look for a new job after my current one basically changed my description without notice, and while they claim it’s temporary, I’m getting the feeling that they are in no rush to hire someone for these activities. I know a change in responsibilities is usual, and I don’t really mind doing the new activities once in a while, but I don’t want them to become 50% of my tasks, so I want to reach out to a few contacts and let them know I’m staring to look (I don’t want to start strong, in case my company does take my new activities off my plate sometime soon). One of my clients is in an industry I’ve been trying to get into for years, should I include her in the list of people I reach out? She’s the only person I know in that industry.

    1. Always Late to the Party*

      This seems a little risky, unless you have the closest relationship with the client out of anyone else in your org. Even then, I would approach it really gingerly AND only if you have a strong professional relationship. I wouldn’t cold-email this person saying “Hi I’m looking for a job in this industry can you keep me in mind?” but maybe ask if she would be open to having “virtual coffee” or something – she could probably give you insights into the industry.

      Ultimately, if you have any doubts, or think your org would freak out about it, err on the side of caution and leave her off your list.

  110. Job Applicant anony-mouse*

    I applied to hundreds of USAgov jobs over the past few years, and over time, went in for six different job interviews. Eight, if one includes one job’s round 1 and 2, and the job I interviewed for some weeks ago–also rounds 1 and 2, though remotely. I’ve got multiple degrees, the skillset, and people have told me I have a nice personality.

    Still, though, after round two (recovering from a cold), and losing my voice a day later because their promised forty-five minute call turned into twice the allotted time frame, I am TIRED. Of ALL of this.

    I know a position in the federal government isn’t a guarantee, but Jesus Christ, I really worked hard. Invested hours of time preparing. Years, even.

    And like the sap I know I am, I’ll still keep applying, because that’s how badly I want to be of service in that particular arena. Can anyone relate?

    1. Reluctantly Jobhunting*

      I can! I have a lot of friends that go the USAJobs route and all I can say is that it seems soul crushing…some of them have tried as government contractors and moving to their cities of interest to try to network, with mixed results…as for me? I’ve been trying to get in policy roles in a the private sector (because, I’m going the “change from within route”!!) and it’s been as soul crushing as what I’ve seen my friends go through… sorry I don’t have any more advise, just know that you’re not alone in wanting to use your education and background to make a positive impact! Hang in there!!!

    2. NeonDreams*

      I’ve applied to several gigs through USA Jobs(13 or 14). I had 1 interview in 2019 with another one coming next week. This is in the span of 2.5 years. I get the frustration. Because I’m right there with you.

  111. Legal Leslie Knope*

    I just found out that I made a big error at work–think consistently referring to someone by the wrong name throughout an entire document–and only found out about it when my boss called me to ask what was going on with the document. Of course, as he was telling me about the problems in the document, the fire alarm went off in my apartment (just some burnt toast) and he had to hang up because it was so loud. Be right back, going to hide for the rest of the day….

  112. IWannaFlyAway*

    I am planning on leaving my job in the near future. I actually already have another offer, although it is not yet official and it seems a bit uncertain. So, I could be leaving my current job anytime from a month or two from now if this offer comes through, to 6 months (or who knows, maybe more – after all, pandemic).

    My dilemma is that we have just hired a new person who will be reporting to me. If/when I leave, they’ll be on their own in our function, likely for quite some time, as we’re a very small team, and hiring takes a long time at our organization. I am confident that the new person would be able to handle this transition well, as they are coming from a similar job within the same larger organization and had a wide variety of responsibilities. It could even be a great opportunity for them to advance more quickly. However, I feel some guilt about leaving them on their own so early in this new role.

    Should I do anything particular to prepare them for my eventual departure? Is there anything I can do without giving my plans away? (Since my plans are so uncertain, I don’t think it wise to announce my intention to leave right now).

    1. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      Ha, I was in a similar position (well, except I didn’t have a job lined up). What I did that my direct report seemed to appreciate:

      1) Had them network with others in related teams/departments via informational interviews. I also encouraged them to reach out to others with questions so they knew who to talk to about different things (i.e. “Oh yeah, talk to Sam in the Otter Dept about that).
      2) Had them up write a first draft of the annual goals document, then worked with them to refine it into a workplan.
      3) Created an list of common on-boarding resources (e.g. accounting procedures, tech how to’s, org chart, etc.). Oddly, my org didn’t have one of these already…
      4) Asked them what they needed to be successful in their first 90 days and had weekly check-ins for them to throw any and all questions at me.
      5) Identified skill areas that they needed training on, then gave them assignments/mentoring to develop those skills.

    2. Choggy*

      You don’t necessary need to say anything yet since you don’t have a specific date in mind, just make sure you are focusing on covering every possible aspect of the job so they are prepared for your departure. That’s really all you can do without giving too much away, you don’t want them to panic (yet!).

  113. Marian the Librarian*

    I have an interview next week for a cataloging librarian position in a public library. Any advice on what to prepare for/ask them/possible questions or topics? Thank you in advance.

    1. A Cataloger*

      I loved cataloging at a public library, I was there for almost 11 years before moving supervising cataloging academics.

      If I were to move back to public library I would ask questions around what other duties they anticipate you doing (reference, selection, etc.) and how much time they expect those to be each week. Personally, I loved doing selection, because it was more flexible and I could fit it around my workflow. I would also ask about their ILS (what they like or don’t like about it), professional development opportunities, whether or not they outsource any of their cataloging/processing (or plan to), and their general volume of materials going through cataloging in an average month and if they have a large backlog.

      I would probably be prepared to talk generally about RDA (maybe AACR2) and show that you are at least generally aware of the RDA-LRM changes. I would at least think about a your cataloging philosophy, it doesn’t have to be super deep or detailed, but when I’m hiring I’m looking for catalogers who put the user first not the rules.

      One thing to think about, depending on your library background/experience, is the quality vs quantity. Public libraries in general are going to weight quantity higher than quality (they still want quality, but they really want items to get out to patrons quickly). Just as an example at the public library I was at I averaged 2,000+ items a month, at my academic library we average at most 500 items a month. To be fair, a lot of times we were adding a lot of multiple copies at the public library, that we don’t do at the academic library, but the volume is still there.

      I’m sure there are other things that I’m not thinking of, but hopefully this will give you a start.

  114. KoiFeeder*

    A teacher is trying to get me to commit to 100% face-to-face time in a class that really, really does not require physical presence at all. I have an accommodation from student services because I don’t have an immune system, and I don’t intend to back down until I and everyone else in the class are vaccinated, I just would like some good vibes.

    1. Grafik*

      Don’t back down, your life is worth fighting for! That means making decisions in the best interest of YOU. Others are not going to do that because they are making decisions that suit them, like in the case of this teacher. But it really won’t work for you because of your immune system. In that case be ok with the disagreement because you are advocating for yourself. It’s ok to disappoint others. I am glad to hear you are advocating for yourself. It is a life long struggle we all have to do, pandemic or not.

    2. Enby*

      So glad you’re sticking up for yourself! There is no world where a job is more important than your life.

    3. PollyQ*

      ~~~~Good Vibes~~~~ and stick to your guns! This is a matter of life & death for you, and in fact, no one should be pushing for any adult to be face-to-face in class right now. It’s especially wrong given that you have a formal accomodation. You may even want to escalate this if she doesn’t quit pestering you; it might fall under the description of disability harassment. (You also may not want to open that can of worms, and it’s 100% fine if you don’t.)

    4. WoodswomanWrites*

      Adding to the good vibes in support! This teacher is way out of line, and it’s great that you’re sticking up for what’s right for your health no matter what the teacher says. You are completely in the right, you have a documented accommodation, you’re already doing all your coursework remotely, and you’re prioritizing the most important thing–your life. Go you!

    6. tangerineRose*

      Good vibes your way! Even people with immune systems should be careful when they can; you are being smart to be remote.

      Would it help to ask the teacher why they want you to do face-to-face time? Sometimes asking can help them figure out they don’t need it or help you figure out a workaround.

      1. KoiFeeder*

        The teacher’s words are that distance learning is an oxymoron because no one “actually” learns anything over zoom, and that this is a class that is impractical for distance learning anyways, and that I shouldn’t be concerned because don’t I trust the school and my classmates?

        What I get from these words is that 1) the teacher doesn’t actually think I’m doing the work and 2) the teacher does not consider my life to be more important than faculty convenience which is not auspicious.

        1. KoiFeeder*

          (And, as stated above- this is a lecture class. It’s not like I’m taking a teapot making course, this is History of Llama Grooming. There is absolutely no reason this has to be face-to-face.)

  115. Data Nerd*

    I have good news! I have been playing Alison for a year or so with my friend group, using her advice to help rewrite resumes and get through interviews. First one, friend who’d been looking for work for several months-new job and raise; second one, friend who’d just started looking for work-new job and 33% raise! Third and fourth ones are in progress, hopefully helping my sister-in-law get a job where she finally gets weekends off . . .

  116. Enby*

    I am quite burned out in my current position and have been keeping an eye out for the next thing. I applied for a job a week ago – not my dream job, but one I was interested enough in to want to learn more about whether it would be good fit.

    A couple of days ago I got an email from the program manager who is doing the hiring, saying that they had gotten tons of applications but mine had made it through the first round of review. For more in-depth consideration, they are asking all candidates to complete a writing assignment – 500 words on how we would vision XYZ program, and two 300-word summaries of how A and B relate to C and D topic (with data and citations). This would take at least a couple of hours and potentially much longer depending on how easy it was to find the citations, etc. This is after already answering 3 100-word questions within the application itself.

    I have a full-time job and a family, and am so frustrated to be asked to complete a large task like that without any idea if I’ll even get an interview. It feels lazy for them to require that a large number of applicants do that before they’ve put any significant time into the process! Am I off base here?

    The email pretty much said – if you don’t respond, we’ll assume you’re not interested. However, I kind of want to respond and politely let them know that this is not a reasonable request, etc. I looked through AAM to try and find some ideas for how to word that in the brilliantly boundaried and professional way that is typically suggested, but came up short.

    Given my current work situation, my primary requirement going forward is an excellent organizational culture that values work/life balance and clear communication, so it seems clear that this is not the job for me (they also mentioned the job, which was listed as fully remote, would not be very remote at all). I guess I dodged a bullet, as there was a couple of words in the job description that made me wonder “must deliver high quality work under time pressure” and “needs to be high performing”. Ugh.

    1. Enby*

      I just confirmed – it says the job is FULLY remote on the listing! The email said it would be 2-3 days of site visits and 1-2 days in the office. I can see site visits as still being considered remote, but not a requirement for 2 office days/week. I’m so frustrated!

      1. BlueBelle*

        Corporate culture is less of a consideration if it is fully remote. If you are interested in the job, don’t worry about the word count. If you can answer the questions and meet the assignment with less, then go for it. If they knock you out for word count they are jerks.

    2. Choggy*

      Yeah, this to me, is the type of job where they want to find out how many hoops you are willing to jump through to even get the job. That hoop jumping probably won’t stop once you’ve been hired, and will probably only get worse.

      1. Reluctantly Jobhunting*

        That happened to me last time I was job hunting. I had a full time job and one of the places that I interviewed with required an extensively researched writing assignment. I could have done it had it been send during the weekend, but I it was due during the week, so I worked on it after work for a few hours a couple of days that week and sent the best product I could with the limited time I was willing to put on top of my regular day to day activities. I didn’t get the job, but it helped me realize I didn’t want to work for a that place if they expected me to turn in the same quality of work as if I was job hunting full time.
        Good luck!

      2. Enby*

        Thanks to all of you! Yes… I could technically do it, but I am already exhausted and burned out. I’m happy to work hard if I get a job, but I can’t handle jumping through hoops to get there… or working for people who want to see if I’ll jump through hoops first.

        I have lots of great writing samples that could accomplish the same purpose (given them a sense of the quality of my writing and understanding of the topic), in a fraction of the time.

  117. WizardofLoneliness*

    Today was my last day at the company I worked for, for almost five years. It was my very first professional role out of school. I resigned for a better opportunity with more growth, but am still feeling bittersweet over it. I went back one last time to clean out my desk and return my laptop. I yelled ‘Bye everyone’ to the empty floor. Feeling very nostalgic today, but also extremely excited for the new opportunity! Cheers to my old workplace, and on to the next!

    1. NeonDreams*

      Good for you! 5 years is a long time to commit tp a place. I hope to be in your same position soon.

  118. Un Peu Dépaysé*

    Newish around here, and really seriously thinking about a career change.

    Basically, I’m a French teacher in a major city that has spent the last year being used and abused by my school system. I don’t want to get into all the details, but it started with a certain school administrator under-scheduling my course load 2 years in a row so that I could be asked to do parts of her job she doesn’t want to do, then I got drafted into a job that someone with counseling education is supposed to do and that I’m wholly unqualified for (plus I’m having to be a student caseworker in addition to teaching my own classes). Then the district has continued to appease parents who are upset that we’re virtual by telling us we’re going back to the school buildings and stressing out teachers and staff only to back off when it becomes obvious that that is a crazy bad idea, but only a day or 2 before we were asked to return. My mentor, another teacher in my department who has been doing this for 20+ years, told me in no uncertain terms that I needed to get out. That I was smart and talented and other people would love to have me, but that this wasn’t going to improve and I needed to save myself from 20 years of this shit.

    So I guess I’m looking for ideas or thoughts on how to rebrand myself and get a new job in a career with advancement opportunities in the fall. About me:
    -I did a year as a communications AmeriCorps VISTA about 5 years ago in a non-profit. I’m not opposed to going into non-profit work, but the organization I worked with then was toxic and kinda soured me on small non-profits. I did design a website for them that they’re still using, and got a lot of good graphic design/media experience there though.
    -I have a bachelors degree in both French and History, with a minor in Gender Studies.
    -I have masters level coursework in curriculum design, educational research practices, learning theory, child development, and adolescent psychology.
    -I studied in France for 2 academic years at the Sorbonne, while also teaching English and French to refugees and immigrants in Paris.
    -my spouse and I cannot afford for me to be out of work for longer than a couple of months; I’m the breadwinner, and she doesn’t really have the sort of career that could support us both long-term.
    -I’m gay, so we need to be in an area and a field where I wouldn’t be forced into the closet.
    -dream job would be something engaging and project-based that doesn’t involve any sales or cold-calling. I’m pretty introverted and would rather not spend my days talking to strangers. I’m good when working on a team with people I know, however. I’d also love something where I can use my fluent French skills to help people.

    So… any thoughts on jobs I should look into? Any ideas on how to re-brand my classroom experience so that it works for something in a more traditional office setting?

    1. Noem is a Nope*

      Instructional Design, corporate Training/facilitating. Your skills should be able to relate well into areas where you are designing a class, delivering, or developing the materials. I work at a company which is completing a huge initiative on creating virtual trainings and making them ADA compliant. Think hospitals, financial services, insurance companies, banks. Look at the major employers in your area, National companies with a presence in your area, and anything with any teaching/training type keywords.
      Good luck!!

    2. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      My first (somewhat random) thought was work in museums, though I imagine that’s a tough space to break into, especially now.

      In addition to @Noem’s great suggestions, maybe a company like Lynda.com or LinkedIn Learning? I’m not really sure what instructional design includes.

      1. Un Peu Dépaysé*

        Thanks! Museum work has always been an interest, and I have experience in it, but the pay is notoriously low for museum educators. It’s definitely on the list if I can find a position that pays at least 40k.

  119. Cheezed To Meet You*

    Has anyone been successful at changing their hours from FT to PT due to going back to school?

    SinceI graduated college a few years ago, I’ve been doing admin related jobs and trying to figure out what I wanted to do long-term career wise. At my last job, I decided to enrolled for a post-bacc degree in a different field part-time (love online learning) and found I really enjoyed this new program. My plan was to continue working FT and school PT.

    Got laid off due to covid and now I’m in a new position that’s nice, but still not related to my new degree major. I was going to keep doing school PT and work FT but now I really want to dedicate more time to my studies and finish off this degree since I’m halfway done. I never told any of my bosses about my schooling and they just assume I’m here for a paycheck.

    So would it be a decent idea to ask my boss if I could be moved from FT to PT hours? We finished up our huge projects so I don’t see things picking up until fall. Not sure how to approach the subject, especially given that I’m already in school (so I can’t say I’m starting my degree) and its in a field not related to my current job (STEM vs. Liberal Arts). Would it be best just to resign and look for a PT job elsewhere? My current job is done remotely and doesn’t require communicating with clients.

    1. NF123*

      I moved from FT to PT early in my career in order to attend graduate school. The job was in my field, and the degree was related. I did, though, leave the job after a semester of being PT because I was offered a PT job on campus.

      It seems like there’s no harm in asking in your situation: (1) It doesn’t sound like you expect to stay anyways. (2) It doesn’t sound like the employer expects you to stay (“assume I’m here for a paycheck”). (3) You are considering resigning, so it sounds like you’re fine with losing the job.

      If your job won’t let you go PT, then you can look for another PT job, maybe even one in your field.

  120. SufjanFan*

    Not so much of an advice question, but is anyone else just…… exhausted and burnt out? I’ve been lucky to stay employed throughout the pandemic but I haven’t really been able to take a break due to picking up other team members’ responsibilities after they were let go. I feel like since the start of the new year, my brain has been blank and I can’t concentrate anymore. Someone please tell me I’m not alone!

    1. Lyudie*

      Oh you are so far from alone. I was struggling before all this started and it certainly has not gotten better, even with taking a long break at Christmas. A LOT of people are struggling and have been for a while.

    2. AwkwardTurtle*

      You’re not alone! I’m feeling burnt out too and on top of that have a find a new job because my current one is ending. I’m also really bored with my job as there’s not as much to do during closeout.

    3. NeonDreams*

      I’m in the same place. Working with the public is tiresome in good times. But this year has been brutal. I was burnt out before the pandemic but now it’s triple that.

    4. Llama face!*

      Yep, I am employed but not working atm (it’s complicated) and struggling to get through a bunch of things I need to do to be able to pay my bills and keep body & soul alive. It seems like life is on an extra high difficulty level these days. And then just today we got a surprise water shut off on my street. It was possibly construction-related but they gave us very little warning. It was only off for about half an hour but now I have to boil my water for two freakin’ days (because that is how long the testing takes to make sure there was no contamination). Really did not need this on top of everything else!

    5. Hotdog not dog*

      Not even a tiny bit alone! Nearly everyone I know is in the same pickle. It seems to help me if I just plan for one day at a time and try to ignore tomorrow until it gets here.

  121. Argye*

    Is anyone else getting fed up with people scheduling meetings on holidays? The University was closed the week between Christmas and New Year’s. I still had people scheduling meetings, since “everyone’s at home anyway, we may as well get this done.” There’s no way they could do that in the beforetimes, because no one would come to campus.

    I just has someone schedule a meeting for Monday, when again, the University is closed because of the Holiday.

    It’s beginning to really irritate me!

    1. WellRed*

      Simply respond that it’s an official holiday and the university is closed. Rinse and repeat. (Also, I think this is more a reflection on your coworkers than a wide wfh trend)
      I’d be irritated too!

  123. CreepyPaper*

    How do I politely tell the sales team I support to back off with hassling me to do stuff and let me get on with my job? We’re all working remotely and I get at least one call an hour from someone in the team chasing me for an update on something I haven’t done yet because I haven’t had time because all the other sales people are chasing me too.

    I honestly spend more time fielding calls and emails chasing me for updates than I do doing my job. I’m lucky enough to be in an industry that’s thrived during the pandemic but as a result we’re all run off our feet and we were all already behind on work by the end of our second day back in the office after New Year.

    We use Teams to communicate and setting myself to ‘do not disturb’ doesn’t help, they leave voicemails (and one in particular will call about four times on the trot until I get back to him) or bombard me with chat.

    Worse, I’m dealing with some health issues right now so I’m a little slower than usual – I have a chronic illness that’s flaring at the moment and my steroids are making me a bit dopey, so I have to focus on what I’m doing and the constant tsunami of ‘have you done this? Have you done that? Did you go back to Fergus?’ is not helping.

    I have spoken to my manager and my manager’s manager about this but I was told ‘this is the job’. I really enjoy the actual work but the people I’m support staff for are driving me crackers…

    1. Always Late to the Party*

      Ooof, I’m sorry. Is it possible to quickly communicate a reasonable timeline when you get request? For example:

      On Monday
      SalesPerson: can you prepare the sales reports for me?
      You: Sure – I will get them to you ASAP, but no later than Friday.

      On Wednesday
      SalesPerson: are you done with the sales reports yet?
      You: Still working on them but as I mentioned I’ll get to you by Friday.

      Unfortunately you may have to do this A LOT with EVERYONE for it to start to stick that they shouldn’t bother you, because it sounds like people are used to this being the norm and no one else is going to make moves to change it.

      With the guy who calls four times in a row, answer as soon as he calls but same thing – set a timeline and be firm about it.

    2. Hotdog not dog*

      I have been known to pointedly tell people that we can either discuss the work or they can go away and let me do the work, but not both.

    3. RagingADHD*

      Can you set specific times to check voicemail, and state that in your outbound message?

      “Hi, I’m currently working on multiple deadlines, and can’t answer the phone at the moment. If you need a status update on your project, I will return those calls once a day between X and Y. ”

      You might not be able to get away with that. But…maybe you can!

      It’s certainly worth it.

    4. Juneybug*

      Could you have a task listing that the sale folks can see so they know where they fall in the queue?
      Can you ignore the phone calls and chats while you are working?
      Can your boss allow you to have dedicated time for work where you don’t answer phone calls/emails/chats?
      This sounds no fun.

  124. Crazy Always Happens Friday Afternoon*

    I am very early in the interview process with sort of my goal company. I have a very good relationship with the external recruiter that I”m working with. Today, I just got called by my current employer with a really nice 2 year retention program (3 figures). IDK what to do now. I don’t want to sign a non-compete (same industry) to get the bonus, if I don’t that throws a bomb into my current job, and I’m way too early in the interview process to bring this up. I don’t know what to do. I’ve been having second thoughts about the new job, only because it is a big change (moving around several times, out of my home town, probable pay cut), and this almost seems like a sign (and I kind of dig signs). But I’ve been so unhappy at the upper management of my current job although I like everything else about it (WFH, flexible, good vacation, decent benefits, etc). It’s just that they annoy me so much with not being team players or being good at management at all. I just don’t know what to do. I don’t want to ruin my chances with the other company by backing out. Would it be monumentally weird to talk to the recruiter about this?

    1. WellRed*

      Three figures? Unless I’m missing something, that’s not a lot of money to stay at a job you’re unhappy at.

      1. Crazy Always Happens Friday Afternoon*

        Sorry, said that wrong. 6 figures (I usually only think salary in thousands).

    2. Reba*

      No, I think you can ask what their timeline is and explain you are being offered a retention package at your current job. Probably they won’t be able/willing to wildly accelerate the process for you, but it’s worth a conversation, I think.

      Knowing that the extra money doesn’t change the management problems….maybe time to go. But taking a pay cut in These Times doesn’t seem like the move to me, either.

      Non competes stink!

      1. Crazy Always Happens Friday Afternoon*

        I’m at the very beginning of the interview process, probably another 2 months to finish it out (they have an involved process). I have to answer by Tuesday, and Tuesday is the next step of the process. If I’m backing out, I want to decide before them because I don’t want to waste their time any further (I really really really don’t want to burn this bridge).

  125. I Wrote This in the Bathroom*

    I’ve got a question about something that happened a few hours ago. I had a (scheduled a couple of weeks in advance) call with a corporate recruiter from a BIG name company. They found me. I would not have applied myself as I would’ve thought I wasn’t their kind of employee. I thought it went well. They offered to continue with the interview process and I said I was interested in doing so. They then said to add them on LinkedIn and to email them my resume, and that they’d send me several emails in the next ten minutes; one to schedule the next interview and the rest with links to information to help me prepare for the interview. That was five hours ago and I have not heard from that person since, nor did they accept my LinkedIn invitation. I’m guessing either life happened and they’ll get back to me later, or something in my resume threw them off. There is however one other possible reason I am wondering about. They asked how long I’d been working in (my field) and since they already knew that my degree was in (field), I reluctantly told them my graduation year (a VERY long time ago and makes it easy to figure out my age). I don’t list my graduation year on my resume or on any of the job search sites or LinkedIn, and only list the last 20 years of my work history. I figured it’s pointless to keep hiding your age when you’re already talking to the company, but could it be that they turned me down because of it? Should I have made up a number like 20 and given it to them? I plan on actively looking later this year and, if this was a mistake on my end, I’d rather not make it again — how long into the interview process are you supposed to be hiding your age?

    1. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

      I think it’s too early to assume they’ve written you off (though I know how easy it is to jump to conclusions while interviewing!). I have a meeting and follow-up heavy job and I can’t tell you how many times I told someone I’d send something as soon as we got off the phone and then just forgot to hit send. If you sent them your resume today, I’d wait until at least Tuesday (since Monday is a holiday) before following up about the items they promised to send you. Don’t give up hope and definitely don’t lie about your college graduation year since that might turn up on a pre-offer verification. I very much hope they’re not reconsidering your candidacy on the basis of age, but if that is the case just imagine what it would be like to work there and consider it a bullet dodged!

      Good luck!

    2. tangerineRose*

      I wouldn’t worry too much about the LinkedIn invitation not being accepted yet. They might not go on LinkedIn till the end of the day (or less often). I use my personal e-mail address for LinkedIn, so I don’t see it at work. Good luck!

  126. Lifelong student*

    It is late so this probably won’t be seen- but I feel the need to tell those who complain about their bosses that not all are evil. I had a telephone call from the woman, a Benedictine sister, who I worked with for 11 years yesterday. She, and all the sisters at the monastery are currently in quarantine. She is almost 90 years old.

    The phone call was a highlight I will cherish- as I cherish the years I spent with her.

    1. Sleepless*

      I still see my first professional boss at meetings and speak to him here and there. He was really not a good boss in some ways but he meant well, and I love him like a family member. I hope your former boss stays safe.

    2. Cedrus Libani*

      Indeed. I’ve had around a dozen bosses in my life. There’s one I would never work for again, not if that was the last paycheck on Earth and there were no dumpsters left to scrounge in. There are two I would go well out of my way to work for again. Most were fine people and fine colleagues who happened to be senior to me. Most people aren’t so bad; if you find yourself working for a jerk, know that you can do better.

    3. tangerineRose*

      There are some really good bosses out there. I think it’s just easier to complain about the bad ones :)

  127. MoralConfusion*

    I have made the decision to leave my job due to the toxic work environment but am still unsure about the exact timing of my departure. Part of my responsibility is partnering with other organizations and securing contracts for our services. One organization we’re exploring a partnership with is a place I care deeply about both personally and professionally. My current company has historically failed at the kind of contract they’re seeking and is misrepresenting its ability to perform well. I am concerned that if this contract is formalized it would hurt this organization’s chances of success. However, since I am still employed with them, I feel a responsibility to my job to not paint them in a bad light. Is it appropriate to warn this other organization? If so, how can I do that?

    1. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      Hmmm…this is a tricky one. It’d be great to get Alison’s take on it.

      My initial thought is, can you be subtly honest while you’re discussing it with the external org? Like, bring up times when there have been challenges and barriers in similar situations in the past while discussing the workplan/contract?

  128. New Grad*

    I applied for a role in Oct. 2020 and had a phone screening with an in-house recruiter. I was later informed (11/2020) that the position was on hold but to keep in touch as the company wanted to continue talking once (not if) the role reopens. I sent an email today asking about the status of the position as it had been two months since we last emailed and was informed that there are no open roles available. I used the same email thread so I’m unsure why the recruiter is treating me like a random person emailing out of the blue when she herself told me to follow up. Should I have followed up sooner? Did I do something wrong that soured them to me?

    1. WellRed*

      Stop overthinking it. The job probably no longer exists due to covid or something else that has nothing to do with you.

    2. Reba*

      So, the role has not reopened. Or their plans changed and it’s not going to reopen. Or they decided to fill it internally.

      It would have been nice for the recruiter to be warmer to you, and to indicate if you should keep thinking about this/follow up again. That is totally true. But she hasn’t really done anything wrong here.

      And most importantly, neither have you!

      I think it would be ok to ask (scrupulously politely and with no hint of being put out) if you should get in touch about the role again based on your conversations in the fall. But I wouldn’t count on a fully transparent answer after this. Sorry!

    3. Always Late to the Party*

      I think that means the position is still on hold, or they decided to put it on hold permanently. Unfortunately this kind of thing is not uncommon. Even though they indicated in November the role would re-open, they could have changed their mind and it’s impossible to know from the outside why. Also, two months is not very long for a role to be on hold, especially in November/December when there are significantly fewer working days because of the holidays (assuming you’re somewhere that has holidays around that time :)).

      However, it sounds very unlikely it’s because of anything you did personally – much more likely there’s an internal reason why they aren’t hiring for that role anymore or why it’s still on hold. So DON’T take this personally or feel like there’s anything you should have done differently.

      Remember, recruiters talk to job candidates all day every day, and may be extremely busy. So don’t take it personally if she acts like she doesn’t know you – think about how many phone screenings someone whose job is to do phone screenings may have done in 2 months. She may see it as a kindness that she let you know (the same day you emailed!) that she can’t help you right now.

      If you really wanted to you could reply with something like “Thanks for letting me know! When we spoke in November, you mentioned this role was on hold and would be re-opening. Do you have a sense for when that might be?” Unless you get a concrete response to that question, i think you’re better off mentally moving on from this role and focusing your energy on new opportunities. I’m sorry, I know that probably sucks to hear, especially if it was a job you were excited about.

      Best of luck in your search!

  129. Still Employed Event Planner*

    What is the general thought of putting certification graphics on a resume. I.e. I have a bunch of industry certifications and each has a symbol / logo. I have them on my 2 column resume on the top right side about my professional experience. I’m torn if it helps draw attention to my expertise thru a stand out visual or gimmicky. I’m an event planner.

    1. Always Late to the Party*

      I cannot speak as someone who hires event planners but if I saw this on a resume I would think it was tacky. I’m much more interested in your past job accomplishments/responsibilities, but maybe that’s more the roles I personally hire for. This may vary by industry, and hiring manager, of course, but I think the safer plan is to leave them off.

    2. WellRed*

      I don’t think it will. help, it will look cluttered and busy, and it might mess up things if someone is trying to scan the document into their system. you’ll stand out by sharing your stand out experience and accomplishments

    3. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      Agree with the others, this stands out in a negative way.

      My other thought was maybe on a business card…?

      1. Analytical Tree Hugger*

        Oh, but probably do list the certifications themselves as simple bulleted text in your resume. The logos are what seem off to me.

  130. Anonymous for this*

    Anyone have experience reporting a coworker in a childcare setting that emotionally abuses young children? Not comfortable giving more context because I’m in the middle of a $hi#show. Director of setting doesn’t want to “get it’ despite multiple reports from me and other witnesses.

    1. KoiFeeder*

      As a former child who had an emotionally abusive teacher, I just want you to know that you are my personal hero for trying to protect your charges from your coworker. I wish you the best of luck.

      1. tangerineRose*

        I had a mean, terrifying teacher in elementary school (fortunately my parents pulled me out of that class). Please report this coworker. Thank you for being concerned about this! (Sorry, I don’t know what avenues you should use.)

    2. TX Lizard*

      Can you get in touch with whatever organization regulates/licenses your childcare facility? Or make a report to whatever child welfare organization you would report abuse to in any other context? You may have to go over the director’s head (and you should if they are not taking abuse seriously). Many places allow you to make anonymous reports.

    3. Bea*

      I have no advice, but I want to encourage you to keep trying to report this person. I truly cannot remember *anything* from my 5th grade year in elementary school. I had a mean, mean teacher and was traumatized by her. I have blocked the memories. My mother says that my wonderful 6th grade saved me. Thank you for trying to protect children.

    4. Mourning Reader*

      Not for emotional abuse but yes, do call, especially if you are a mandatory reporter. I have called (as a librarian who saw something but librarians are strangely enough not mandatory reporters) and I don’t believe they identify who called when they investigate. At least I never heard anything as a result of my report, other than noticing that teacher was no longer employed.

    5. DeepDarkBlue*

      Thank you each for commenting. Koi Feeder, tangerine rose, and Bea – I’m so sorry you suffered this way. I understand and will see this through.

  131. WalkLeft*

    With the new year I’ve realized I want to change industries. I’m so burnt out on lab work, the culture around it, and the constant exposure to toxins. Beyond that I’ve realized that as I try to move away from perfectionism in my personal life, that my work life is holding me back… Because perfectionism is what drove me into lab work in the first place.
    I’m almost certain I want to switch to counseling, which will of course mean going back to school and getting a license and so on. The only hesitation is that I won’t have the same earning power as a counselor, which is a problem because I have an expensive and undiagnosed health issue, which I can currently afford to take care of.
    I guess I’m just hoping for advice on what to expect when drastically changing career and industry, and perhaps any insight into how to do so while struggling with health problems.

  132. Formerly Ella Vader*

    Progressive discipline policy: verbal warning / written warning / suspension / gone? or performance improvement plan (PIP)?

    Any experience with PIP being used outside the USA, or is it mainly an American thing?

    Any reason not to include that option in our new policy?

  133. Health Policy Wonk*

    Hi y’all!! I recently found out I got into my dream grad school program!! I’ve worked for 3 years before applying because I wanted some work experience, I wanted to really figure out my path, and I wanted to see what skills I could learn on the job and what I needed to learn in grad school.

    I want to work in health policy, and so far my grad school curriculum covers all of the important things needed to be a policy analyst (e.g. policy analysis, knowledge of microeconomics, stats, etc.). I’m also adding media advocacy courses as an elective. Anyone who works in the field, do you have any advice on what I should supplement my curriculum with? Or any general advice what skills I should master in grad school to make myself more marketable after graduation?

  134. Courageous cat*

    I hope I’m not too late! I never post in these.

    I am likely going to get a job offer soon. One of the people I interviewed with (a payroll person) asked if I had any obligations outside of work that would cause problems, then divulged that the current person in my position has a mother with dementia and as such, is not able to do his work as required.

    I have a few conditions that need checkups/physical therapy (inner ear issues, eczema/skin issues, psych, etc). This means, at my current position, I can have doctor appointments between 1-3 times a month.

    At what point should I disclose this to my potential employer (that I have to take an hour or two off here and there for appointments)? Should I wait until I have an offer (and then worry I feel I’ve baited and switched them)? Or should I just not bring it up and simply ask about their sick leave/dr appt policy?

    1. Alex*

      I don’t think 1-3 doctor appointments a month is something that is that unusual to accommodate that you’d need to get permission for it, unless perhaps this is a very strict coverage-type job. But it would be good idea regardless to ask how they handle sick leave, both officially and the culture around it. Especially now in Pandemic times!

      1. Courageous cat*

        I guess I should specify just for clarity that it tends to be *most* months. Not just 1-3 in a month once in a while. So I guess that’s part of my concern. But you are absolutely right, sick leave is something I should ask after in my final interview.

    2. Tabby Baltimore*

      Suggestion from an AAM occasional poster who’s read this blog daily for several years: wait for the offer, ask for [X days] to consider, then ask for a copy of the employee handbook and the company’s “benefits package” that they send to all prospective employees “to help you with your decision.” With luck, the employee handbook will contain your potential employer’s sick leave/time-off policies, and the benefits package will include information on its insurance plan–which you can check to see if it covers your conditions reasonably well. Good luck!

    3. RagingADHD*

      Do not say anything about health conditions or needing time for doctor appointments until you start work there.

      That interviewer was out of line. As long as you can work the hours required, that’s all they need to know.

      I’m really giving sideye to that interviewer. What a crappy thing to say.

  135. Analytical Tree Hugger*

    After the offer. I’m not sure if you’re in the U.S., but that may be covered by the ADA. And other countries have similar protections.

    But that amount of appointments also doesn’t seem abnormal to me, if this company offers sick leave. (Rhetorical question: Why is sick leave not universal?? )

    Also, it seems inappropriate that the payroll person shared that personal info with you, at all or at least to that level of detail. Yellow flag?

    2. Courageous cat*

      Good point about the ADA. Some of my conditions (much to my surprise, actually) might be technically covered.

      That said – I agree. I interviewed with 4 people and she’s the only one that gave me a couple yellow flags actually (also something about needing to have “thick skin” which is honestly pretty much a red flag). Everyone else seemed extremely rational and sane, but I’m keeping my eyes wide open on this one.

  136. NightHawk*

    I don’t know who will see this but my crappy manager of the past few years… The condescending, micromanaging, neglectful, barrier to any progress, know it all who knows nothing, absent-minded professor, defends everyone else when you bring her an issue with a co-worker… Finally management had decided to let her go!

    I have been looking but it’s pretty bleak out there and I never thought this day would come, she’s pretty high up but never got along with the other execs either and with Covid and a new manager of her own I guess some things came to light and they finally tired of her difficult behavior. She made it clear I’m the last to know (typical) and while there’s a small part of me that feels for her she’s one of the biggest as holes I have ever met and while I’m a little anxious about what’s to come I’m excited to see what it will be like for the team to be able to work without being under her thumb. And for me to work with someone who doesn’t behave the way she does.

    I’m kinda in shock in a small way but can’t wait until she’s finally gone… I almost can’t believe it! Woohoo and buh bye!

  137. Anony-mouse for now*

    I’m late to the site today, so I know I might not get answers. This is a vent a bit too. This happened just the other day and I’m still a little tivked.
    Anyone have any suggestions on how to deal with someone who schedules their PTO way out? Like it’s December and they ask about September? And have expectations that you will always cover for them. I work in Multiples department areas and one has to have front desk coverage. But I actually don’t know if I could cover for a certain day or not. Most likely yes but one of the other departments deals with events on campus so I don’t know what’s happening next fall, especially with COVID.
    They planned out stuff for most of the year already so I can’ttake good friday off because they requested it first.
    When they ask for coverage I feel like I have to answer right that moment.
    There’s been other times where I feel like my coworker thinks I need to drop all of my responsibilities for my other departments to cover this area.
    Like the other day they were sick (not COVID) and when they returned the next day asked me about why I did x and I said I didn’t that other co-worker did. Then they interested me asking why I didn’t cover the entire day, what do I do when they are out, etc. I said I wasn’t asked, that it was covered by others. And honestly I don’t really know how to do x task because it is as not taught to me. I could get help but it’s a task that can only be done at closing and I didn’t work until close.

    also there’s part of the year where I have a short work break and they wanted me to cover.so they could take vacation. They know I’m not working that time and they got all huffy when I said I can’t because I don’t work that time. They acted like they weren’t able to take vacation at all and said Well what AM I supposed to then?. Like it’s my idea to be only for the accademia year. I would love to have 12 months!
    I asked what they did last year and they said it was different because everyone was WFH and office was closed. (We both started roughly the same time so they are only senior by 1 month.) I said that I believe what they used to do before we were both hired was that the others in the office took care of the desk between appointments.amd shared the responsibilities.

    I said they will need to reach out to bosses to find out who can cover that time.
    I just feel like I have to plan out all of my time off now because they do. I mean I understand if you have like a wedding to go to or a consert or something.

    So basically how can I nicely say I think I can cover it now but plans may change and we’d have to work with bosses and others for coverage.

    1. Enough*

      Don’t commit to anything that you can’t guarantee but also why do you have to agree to cover for them at all? It appears that your employer doesn’t require that you get your own coverage. How about a noncommittal I’m sure everything will get covered but if they have concerns they should talk to their boss. I would love to see what kind of response they give if they complain that annoy-mouse won’t commit to covering for them 9 weeks from now let alone 9 months from now.

      1. Anony-mouse for now*

        Actually we do have to find coverage for the front desk. The coworker is primary front desk person and I come in part of the day to cover for lunch and the really busy time of day. So if they are go they do have to cover. The only time they don’t have to find own coverage is when they call in sick.

        1. Rick Tq*

          You are coverage on your work days and that is enough. Start declining all the future vacation requests and let them deal with the situation directly with management. You don’t have to arrange your life for someone else’s convenience.

    2. TL -*

      “I’m not sure yet; my work schedule doesn’t let me commit to anything more than a month out. Check back [about a month beforehand] and I’ll let you know then.”

      Also, just because someone else is upset doesn’t mean you have to do anything about it. Just let them be upset. It’s fine. They’ll get over it.

  138. New Customer Service Rep*

    I have a job where I need to do costumer service. My job is overwhelming and there are times when I can’t get back to the customer for more than a week. I think going awol on my customers is a bit rude. But yet it is awkward to follow up with a customer for so long and not sure if they have figure it out or will they ask me additional questions that I cannot answer and I have to awkwardly say to them that they have to wait for me to get back to them again.

    What is the best way to re-approach customers who I kept waiting for so long?

    1. CreepyPaper*

      We have an auto-reply that goes out to customers which says something like:

      ‘Thank you for contacting Nandor Inc. We endeavour to reply to all queries within 72 hours, however due to a high volume of enquiries and orders there may be a delay in response. If your query is urgent please call (number).’

      Can you set an auto reply like that? It fields angry people wonderfully.

      And when you do go back to them, start your email with ‘apologies for the delay in response’ or somesuch.

    2. Nest*

      “Hey Debra, sorry for the delay! So I spoke with marketing, and those llama billboards are going to be approved under Project Purple. We’ll be issuing payment via ACH this week. I hope that helps, and if you have any other questions let me know and I can get with my manager and find the answer for you. Have a great rest of your week!”

      Something like that. You’re not calling undue attention to the delay, but acknowledging it and moving on. And then kind of letting them know if there are any other questions, that you’ll have to research that too. Plus if you had a delay in responding to them to begin with, they won’t really be expecting you to answer back right away the second time around either, you know?

  139. nonresponsive*

    Does being non-responsive to an employer’s job application follow-up phone call blacklist you for that company forever?

    I recently started on my new job at a good company, and then an employer from my previous job searches left a message on my phone. I want to stay at the job I have now and I don’t want to pursue that other company’s job, even though that company is also very good. So I ignored the phone message for a week now.

    I don’t feel like following up with the phone message, since it has been so long. Yet I don’t want to be blacklisted from this other company, just in case I need to job search again in the future.

  140. Video Conference Help*

    I’m taking a chance that people are still paying attention to this thread. I’m looking for video conferencing tips. I’m reasonably competent in using the software, but I think I struggle with seeing/hearing and responding to social cues with this type of meeting. I think I also talk to my own image too much of the time and I’m wondering how I can arrange my set-up so that the video aspect is less distracting and yet useful. The ideas I’ve had so far: use earbuds or headphones so the sound is in my ear, like a phone call, vs in the room. I can also turn off my video where possible. I have dual monitors, so I could put the video window on my second monitor. Any other ideas?

    1. Sam Foster*

      Headphones will help but be careful with the video on 2nd monitor because one can screw up their ergonomics by constantly turning to look at it.
      Otherwise it is practice practice practice

  141. Nest*

    I know this will be stuck way at the bottom, but I have to type this up.

    So.. I’m miserable at my job. I’ve been stuck here as a temp for a full year now. They keep telling me they’re going to hire me, and it’s “in the works,” but it never happens. Meanwhile, I get no paid holidays, no PTO, and no insurance (the temp agency offers even worse insurance than what I was able to afford in my own search, so basically I don’t have insurance since it’s such a high deductible and worthless).

    On top of that, I have lost all confidence in my abilities. I used to have praise, recognition, and raises heaped on me. I have a great resume. I’m great at what I do. But.. in 2018, I left my job to focus on some mental health issues. I resumed my search in a few months when I felt better, and took the first thing that was offered to me. That was a temp-to-hire spot that I naively took because I didn’t realize that it meant I was just a temp – I thought it was like.. I have no idea. I think I thought it was just a formality to being hired at that particular company. The recruiter threw money at me and talked me into it and I went in blind.

    That job didn’t go well. It was bizarre – I was constantly being criticized for entry level things. It really baffled me. They ended up letting me go when I called in sick for two days (note: I was sick).

    I moved on, and very immediately after was offered a permanent spot at one of the top companies in my city. Yay! Then I got laid off after six months when they sent my spot overseas. That was okay with me, honestly, because that job also shook my confidence. Although my direct manager liked my work, my overseas manager found fault with everything I did, and then she ousted my manager and took over.

    So then last February I came to this new temp spot, agreeing to temp again because I was hesitant to jump back into any one spot without testing it out first. It went great until late summer last year, when we merged with another company. Now I’m being strung along, have had little training for how they do things, and am constantly being hounded for any mistake I make. Which, fine, I make mistakes. I would expect that. But the attitude and rudeness I get as I’m struggling to learn is crushing me. I went from having a great career to feeling like a failure.
    One lady chastised me for changing the name of an attachment she sent me, when I uploaded it into the system. She even copied my manager on it, and condescendingly offered to schedule a Zoom meeting with me to show me how to save a file that she sends me via email. Yes, I know how to right click save. It was so insulting. Since then, she’s gone out of her way to reject all of my work and make really snide comments on everything I do. Everyone acts like this is fine. She is just one example of the way people there act.

    To be clear, I don’t make a lot of mistakes – just a normal amount for someone starting out. I’ve tried to get extra training, but that’s harder over the phone and we have so many “exceptions” to everything.

    I guess I’m just really questioning my abilities at this point. I loved what I do, and I always had confidence that I did a great job. But these last three jobs have really chipped away at that. I think it’s hitting me harder this week because I found out I need major oral surgery, and can’t afford it due to my insurance sucking so badly. I can’t do Care Credit either, because I actually need other procedures later this year that I was going to use CC for. So it’s like.. I need a permanent job for insurance for a painful health issue, but once I’m permanent I won’t have any PTO accrued since my year as a temp won’t “count,” so I wouldn’t be able to take time off anyway, but, but, but…

    Plus just feeling like everyone someone there is snotty to me or tells me yet another thing that I couldn’t have possibly known to do, I’m going to get fired. And I don’t know why on earth this all is happening.

    Don’t temp, boys and girls.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      The strongest prisons ever made are the ones inside our minds.

      When you get a new job offer you can negotiate for time off to get your dental stuff done. Do this as part of your hiring package.

      Your current company is using you. And they have no respect for you. Did you go through a temp agency? If yes, go back to the agency and let them know what is going on. If no, perhaps find an agency to help you get to a new place. Maybe as an employee of the temp agency you’d have insurance? I am not clear on this, but others here will know.

      When others treat us like crap, one thing we can do to counterbalance all that crap is to beef up our own self care. And self-care is what ever that means to you. Extra rest, regular walks, good foods, hydration, good books or movies- whatever you do to recharge yourself put more time in to those recharging activities.

      1. Nest*

        Thank you for the response! You’re right, a lot of this is me letting myself be stuck inside my own mind – but I’ve been temping knowing that I eventually need multiple surgeries (sadly – I have a lot of health issues that I’m diligently working on taming).

        I did go through a temp agency, the same place for both crappy temp jobs. They are very aware of what’s going on, and are part of the reason I keep getting strung along – some weeks I get phone calls asking me what salary I want, but most of the time they just brush me off with “All I know is it’s moving forward and still in the works!” I was told after the merger that New Company wanted to do a “trial period” of three weeks for me… but I’ve been there since February and the merger was in October. So it’s been, just, way more than enough time. I do qualify for insurance through the agency, but it’s somehow a worse plan than what I found myself searching for plans on my own. All in all, it just puts me in a crappy spot in just about every way.

        You’re right that they’re using me. I think I’ve been dealing with several things over the last two years and am just now able to focus my attention to this and start to dwell on how to get out of it. Just seems like a big task at the moment. But the reminder of self-care is a great one. I’ll reflect on what you’ve said. I think at this point even if I went and temped just somewhere else, I’d be happier. Temping will allow me a bit more freedom to work around big dates of time for recoveries and stuff like that, but this particular company is probably a bad fit right now.

  142. sally*

    How can I stop my parents from arranging interviews for me?

    Context: I am 26 and just started a new job last month and came home yesterday to find out they have arranged an interview for me in a leading company in my field (through a mutual friend). I am perfectly okay with my current job and had no prior knowledge of this interview being arranged. I have dealt with unemployment in the past and this has caused a lot of stress for them. I understand this but am tired of my parents interfering in my work life after repeatedly requesting them not to. This latest incident now puts me in the awkward spot of having to reject an interview from a place i really would like to apply to in the future. I admit I lost my cool and might have gotten emotional. My parents are kind, well meaning people but I can’t take this any more. How can I stop them doing this ever again, and remain calm at the same time? Please help.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      While your parents may be kind people in general this particular habit of theirs is NOT kind at all. It undermines you, steals your autonomy, invades your privacy, devalues your choices and a whole list of other things.

      My thought here is that we cannot control what others do. We can only control what we do. I would calmly and clearly tell my parents that I will take the contact information they give me. I will contact that person. And I will let them know that my parents spoke out of turn. I did not ask them to job hunt for me. I am not looking for a new job. I do appreciate [contact person’s] willingness to help but I prefer to make my career on my own reputation for my good and quality work.

      Just as you cannot control what your parents are doing they in the end cannot control how you respond to it. And you are allowed to respond in whatever way suits your needs. You can look into the job opening or you can chose not to and they need to accept that.

      I’d land on telling my parents that they are way over the line and this is NOT COOL at all.

      1. Sally*

        I have had this conversation multiple times so now, honestly, I don’t know what to do. Thank you for validating my frustration that this is not cool. I think I might have to repeatedly tell them. Initially, I was calmly explaining when such incidents happened but now, I feel like I have lost the ability to be calm.

    2. Nest*

      This is awful of them to do, and I’m sorry. My MIL did this to me once (before she was even my MIL), at a random doctor’s office she happened to have an appointment at. Guess who doesn’t even work in medical offices? *raises hand* Anyway, I never followed up or answered any unknown numbers for the next few weeks, and avoided it. Your issue is a bit harder because she’s setting up interviews at places you actually may apply to in the future. What did you tell the person who called you about the job? I could see some places possibly calling them to tell them not to apply at the company on your behalf again, but I suppose many wouldn’t bother with that. This has the opportunity to make you look really bad. I hope someone has some good script to use, because I don’t know how your parents are going to really and truly understand how bad this is.

      1. Sally*

        They told me this over the weekend and I am expecting a call tomorrow. My plan is to apologize profusely when they call. I reacted angrier than usual this time so i dont know if my parents went back to their contact to cancel the interview. To be honest, I feel like a puppet and I hate that them treating me like a child is causing me to react like a child. I am working on being more calm but it is so hard when something like this happens repeatedly. They don’t understand how bad this can look; especially when hiring managers are forced to interview candidates they otherwise wouldn’t have. I wish companies/HR are more direct about their opinion to them but most of the times they don’t bother (I don’t blame them).

        1. Nest*

          Well you got upset because it’s upsetting! I think a lot of people would struggle to receive this news calmly and with good grace. Did your parents seem to “get it” when you got angry, or did they act like you were being unreasonable?

    3. Juneybug*

      I would suggest reading the book Boundaries: When to Say Yes, How to Say No To Take Control of Your Life by Henry Cloud. This book is useful in helping set boundaries, what to say for those who push those boundaries, and I think the most helpful part – the realization that it’s their issue, not your flaws/decisions/personality.
      For the job, I am going to suggest you take the interview. Yes, you are happy where you are at but this is for an opening in a leading company in your field. You might not get that chance later. No one would disagree with you about your parents are controlling, but don’t let this opportunity get away from you cause of that. Besides, if you get the job and it comes with a raise, you can use the money to move out of their house. :)

      1. Sally*

        Thank you for the book recommendation :) I will check it out.

        I have just started a new job this last month and would consider leaving this soon (without any valid reason) unprofessional . Also, the interview is for a position which needs the expertise of a specific software which I do not have. I wish they had asked me before applying so that I could have explained all this.

  143. Sally*

    I really don’t think they get it; otherwise they wouldn’t do it again and again. They apologize and keep on saying that they mean well. This frustrates me
    to no end becausee it results in us going in circles. I tell them I understand they mean well but they CANNOT do this because of reasons x,y, z etc and they respond by saying how I can react like this to a generous act. This went on for more than an hour and I eventually left the room.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      Wow. This is amazing.

      You can tell them their apologies are meaningless because they keep doing this. Tell them you don’t want to hear apologies any more because you know the apologies are fake. If the apologies were real then they would have stopped after the first time.

      Well, if I could financially afford it, I’d seriously consider setting up a video appointment with a counselor for the two of them so they can go over their impulsive out-of-control behavior in regard to something that is none of their business. And the counselor can also cover why they think it is okay to apologize and do it again, so basically LIE to your face. I say, “You keep making appointments for me without asking my permission so now I made an appointment for you. Since you are UNable to stop this behavior on your own, I think we need to drag in some mental health professionals.”

      This is a serious problem. Maybe you can just shut down contact temporarily with them. Or maybe you can find a peer of theirs who will be able to say, “Cut the crap!” and they will listen.

      I do think that it is time to develop an action plan because they are not even being logical. They may mean well but they are actually doing harm here. I do think at this point your solution involves bringing in other people in some manner. It could be a relative or friend they really respect, it could be a clergy person or maybe it is actually a counseling session. Eh, maybe they both need a full physical check up by the doc to see if this is some underlying health issue driving the behavior. I dunno.

      I really super feel for you though. I hope you find the answer very soon.

      1. Sally*

        You are right about the fact that counselling will help and there are impulse control issues. I even brought it up and my mother got emotional about it. She suffers from anxiety and has also taken medication for it in the past. So, this issue is not just about my job; she has anxiety about virtually every area of my life. I will think about potential third parties who can help; I think that is the only way forward if I have to retain some sanity.

        Thank you for clearly stating multiple times in your replies why this is so damaging to my mental health. It weirdly enough gives me some comfort. Each time this happens, my brain is a confused mess of anger and then guilt about the anger.

        1. Not So NewReader*

          I have been watching “The Crappy Childhood Fairy” on YouTube. So far her style suits me well. But she is drawing out things so I can see clearly how things in my life impacted me and sent me in the wrong direction.

          Some of her videos are free and those are the only ones I have watched so far. If I keep seeing what I am seeing and I am going to be thinking of her as The Alison of soured parent-child relationships. And this is where I learned more about clearly stating impacts to mental health. CCF really made me pay attention when she listed off all the ways our physical health gets ruined by the crappy stuff families can do to us. I have thought for a long time that we suffer physical damage in our brains/bodies and she talks about this and how to heal our own selves.

      2. MacGillicuddy*

        Alison has many entries about how parents doing this kind of thing actually undermines the job candidate. Why don’t you show some of these to your parents?

Comments are closed.