a coworker prayed for my fiancé’s death so we didn’t invite her to our wedding … and now there is drama

by Alison Green on September 28, 2021

A reader writes:

My fiancé, “Ted,” has worked for 10 years on a small, very close-knit team, all of whom seem to get along exceptionally well. All the team members and spouses/partners socialize outside of work together as well, and we consider them all to be close friends. We thought they felt the same.

A few months ago, on the way to a work event, Ted and his coworker/best friend “Bob” were involved in a serious car accident and were rushed to the ER. Everyone waited anxiously for hours as they both underwent surgery. Thankfully, they both recovered.

When Ted returned to work, a team member, “Sally,” told him she had a confession to make. She said that while they had been in surgery, she prayed that if God had to let one of them die, she hoped it would be him. (WTF?!?)

Ted was shocked and asked why. He said she gushed on and on about what a “saint” Bob is. (Her examples were that Bob gives her great advice on her struggling marriage and has loaned her money when she was in a tight spot.) She finished by saying, “No disrespect to you, but Bob is in a class by himself. You have to admit you can’t measure up to that” and walked away.

Ted was truly devastated to learn that she felt this way, but he tried to attribute it to the stress of the situation and did his best to put it behind him. He never told anyone else on the team what she said and tried to continue on at work as if nothing had happened, but his relationship with Sally hasn’t recovered. He is still deeply wounded by her comments.

Although Ted appears to be a confident person, underneath he is fairly insecure. He truly thought Sally was a good friend. So in addition to causing him a lot of pain, this has also rattled his confidence. Now he’s wondering if all his team members secretly feel the way she does. Ted and Sally have always seemed to have a warm, cordial relationship and he can’t understand why she would say such a hurtful thing. Ted is now constantly measuring himself against Bob and questioning why he isn’t as “good.”

I suggested that perhaps Sally has a crush on Bob or feels closer to him for reasons that have nothing to do with Ted. But he is convinced that thinks she sees him as a “second tier” man and worries that others do too.

Our wedding is coming up soon and the venue strictly limits the number of guests. When it was time to send out invitations, Ted invited the rest of the team and their spouses but did not invite Sally and her husband. I expressed my concern that this would cause more problems, but he replied that since we could only have a limited numbers of guests, he’d prefer to spend our special day with another pair of close friends who “genuinely love and appreciate” us rather than a woman with whom his relationship is now severely strained.

Two weeks ago, I got a call from another team member, “Alice,” asking me if I had forgotten to send an invitation to Sally. I explained that because the venue is small, we simply couldn’t invite everyone.

Alice then told Ted that if we didn’t invite Sally, she and the other women on the team wouldn’t attend either. Ted told her that since the invitations have already gone out, there is no way to add Sally and her husband now unless we “uninvited” two other guests, which we can not do.

Now all the women on the team, including Sally, are freezing Ted out. They refuse to speak to him except when forced to, which is really starting to adversely impact the collaborative work the team does and hampering Ted’s ability to do his job. The men on the team have sided with Ted, saying they feel we have the right to invite (or not invite) whomever we want to our own wedding. This has caused an even further rift in the team.

Everyone is questioning Ted about why we didn’t invite Sally, but he doesn’t feel it’s his place to explain why he doesn’t want her to attend and just keeps repeating that the decision was due to the venue size limitations.

The manager of the team works at another site, and because the team has previously worked so well together, has historically been fairly hands-off, and is oblivious to what is happening now. But if the work continues to suffer, she’s going to notice and ask what’s going on.

What, if anything, should Ted do? Should he preemptively go to the manger to give her a heads/up, or will that make it even worse to be seen as “tattling”? Is there anything he can do to “fix” this on the team, before it erodes their work product even more?

I did weaken and called the venue, who grudgingly said they would be willing to accommodate one more couple. Should we break down and invite Sally to the wedding for the sake of harmony at work?

What a mess.

I completely understand why you wouldn’t want Sally at your wedding! She prayed your fiancé would die. Maybe not exactly … but pretty close to it. And then for some reason, she felt the need to tell him. Why?! She should have kept it to herself; there was no need to inform Ted and if she hadn’t, presumably life at work would have just gone on as before. So Sally sounds like a bit of a nut.

However.

I’m not a fan of pressuring people into wedding invitations, but you also can’t exclude one person from a tight-knit group and expect that not to send a message and cause drama. You’ve got to either invite the whole group, or invite fewer of them so you’re not leaving out just one person, or leave out the one person and accept that it’s going to be A Thing. You and Ted chose the latter option but are hoping it won’t cause drama, and that’s not realistic.

It’s especially not going to happen when no one knows why Ted is upset with Sally. From what they can see, they had a close, tight-knit group of work friends and now Ted has randomly and hurtfully decided to exclude one person for no reason.

I get that he’s trying to blame it on the venue size, but that doesn’t really work when you’ve excluded one person from a “tier” of wedding guests. It wouldn’t work if he had excluded one uncle or one niece, and it doesn’t work when you exclude one of a very close team of colleagues. People are going to read something into it and be hurt.

The drama that it’s causing is pretty excessive — coworkers freezing him out and refusing to speak to him except when forced, to the point that it’s affecting their work, is a weirdly intense reaction (as well as inappropriate and unprofessional). That’s likely a sign that the boundaries on this team were messed up before any of this happened, and that’s why the wedding invitations are functioning as a bomb rather than more like an exploding soda can.

And again, in theory you should be able to invite whoever you want to your wedding and exclude anyone you don’t want there. And you can! You just can’t do it without consequence, and that’s what you’re seeing now.

As for what to do, if Ted wants to stick to his decision, he’s probably better off just being matter-of-fact about why: “Normally we would have loved to have the whole group, but when Bob and I were in the hospital Sally told me she prayed for me to die if one of us had to. So we’re not asking her to celebrate our wedding with us.” Then at least people would have context. It will probably cause a different kind of drama, but if Ted can stay matter-of-fact about it (“it is what it is and we can still work together fine, but it didn’t make sense to ask her to be at the wedding”) it’s probably a better option than the drama of No One Knows Why Ted Did Such an Unkind Thing.

Frankly, it might also be an opportunity to clear the air with Sally. It sounds like she might have no idea why Ted didn’t invite her. He could sit down with her and say, “I’m sorry this has gotten so out-of-hand. I should have spoken to you earlier. I was really hurt by what you said to me after Bob’s and my accident. I’d thought we were close friends, and I haven’t been able to get past you telling me that you prayed I’d die if one of us had to. It’s why we didn’t ask you to be at our wedding, but I’m realizing that I should have talked with you about it earlier.”

It’s possible that conversation could move things to a much better place. Maybe Sally didn’t realize how her remark came across and maybe she’ll be mortified in hindsight. Maybe it’ll turn out she was addled by painkillers when they talked and this is the latest in her long and embarrassing list of discoveries of things she said that day. Maybe they’ll have the sort of conversation that will make Ted happy to extend a wedding invitation to her. Who knows. But looking at where things stand now, not talking to her about it seems like the worse option. And just giving in and inviting her without having that conversation first doesn’t seem likely to fix things at this point.

Read an update to this letter here.

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{ 1,186 comments }

{ 1,186 comments… read them below }

  1. Jean*

    “I sort of prayed for Ted’s death, better tell him about it in excruciating detail” WHAT IN THE ACTUAL F***

    I swear I never knew such weirdos existed until I started reading this blog.

    1. MysteriousMise*

      I love this blog. It makes my weirdos feelore normal.

      Ted,tell the people what Sally said, and talk to Sally.

      2. Rachel in NYC*

        I think that’s all you can do cuz other wise people aren’t gonna get way Sally wasn’t going to be invited w/o knowing that one day Sally could very well pray for their death.

      3. Expelliarmus*

        Agreed! There’s going to be drama either way, so it’s better to have drama revolving around Sally wishing Ted would die rather than people thinking Ted is randomly being a jerk.

      4. Grey*

        Ted, tell the people what Sally said,
        and talk to Sally since you’re not dead.

        This could be a Dr. Seuss book.

        3. Edwina*

          I do not like what Sally said
          She prayed for me to end up dead
          I do not want her at my spread
          I do not want her when I’m wed

          2. STAT!*

            I don’t want Sally at the venue,
            I don’t want her to read the menu,
            I don’t want her to drink my wine,
            Don’t want her there at wedding time.

            Don’t want her saying “Mazeltov!”,
            Nor wedding cards signed “All my love”,
            Don’t want her near my friends and wife,
            ‘Cause Sally prayed for the end of my life.

            The best we can hope is Alison is onto something and Sally acted like that due to some medical/ drug problem. Otherwise, just yuck.

            1. BabyElephantWalk*

              Maybe Ted should just email the text of these poems to the team … or perhaps link them all to this article.

          3. Despachito*

            Sally, ah you ill-bred Sally,
            You prayed for me not to rally.
            Be assured I keep a tally,
            You are no more down my alley.

      5. MusicWithRocksIn*

        I just cannot imagine someone saying something like that to me, and not immediately turning around and telling other people I was close friends with that it happened. I would be texting everyone I’ve ever met within ten minutes going “OMG, you will not imagine what this weirdo at work just said to me!!!”. I would need to talk about it right away. If someone says something hurtful and thoughtless to you, it is not on you to keep it a secret so other people won’t be upset at them, they said the weird mean thing, the fallout should be on them.

        1. NoNotNan*

          I think Ted kept it in because he was so incredibly embarrassed and disturbed that someone he thought liked him would think so little of him. I had a terrible boss and he said horrible things to me and I couldn’t even bring myself to tell my own husband. I imagine Ted internalized this as part of the trauma from the accident.

          1. Delphine*

            Yes, I can imagine sharing it with people if I thought it was absolutely bonkers, but if it hurt me, I would probably keep it close to my chest. OP says Ted worried that perhaps other coworkers felt the same way, so I can see why he wouldn’t have shared what she said to him.

            1. banoffee pie*

              Ted seemed to start worriyng other people agreed, which is the saddest part. It’s awful how people like Sally can make you think you deserve their bad treatment.

              1. Sue*

                Yes, the idea that he believed her thoughts had merit is very sad. It was life changing for me when I adopted, “consider the source” as an explanation for meanness/insults/bad behavior. It let me let go of so much and stop the over–analyising and doubting myself. It doesn’t mean I’m never introspective, just that I am better at judging where I might do better and where they are a jerk.

                1. RebelwithMouseyHair*

                  Oh yes. My BFF has a tendency to see drama where there is none, so I take everything she says with a pinch of salt, even if I love her dearly.
                  I also wait for confirmation of what she says from other sources, and before believing the other sources, I ask them where they got their info.

          2. Gan Ainm*

            Yeah I think your interpretation of stuff like that really depends on your lens. A confident person will see that sally is being unkind, rude and is probably a little nuts. A person lacking in confidence (which OP says Ted is) will internalize it and take it as a statement about who they are (unlikeable, and not as good as Bob), instead of seeing it as saying something about who sally is (lacking empathy).

          3. doubledeeay*

            This is incredibly insightful. Yes, I agree, and had not thought this until reading NoNotNan’s comment.

        2. Greg*

          I had a far more low-stakes version of this happen to me once, and I can understand Ted’s reaction. I saw a business school classmate, not someone I knew particularly well, and in the course of our brief conversation said something about my girlfriend (now wife). She said, “YOU have a girlfriend?”

          To this day, I’m not sure if she thought I was gay, or simply couldn’t imagine a woman wanting to go out with me, or what. But I was someone who hadn’t historically had lots of relationships (for most of the two years we were in school together, I was single, although I’m not sure she knew that). Point being, when she said that, my immediate reaction wasn’t anger, it was shame. (The anger came later).

          I haven’t seen this woman in more than 15 years. I haven’t forgotten what she said, and think about it from time to time (and regret that I didn’t call her out on it in the moment). But this comment is the first time I’ve told anyone about it. Not even my wife knows. It’s not an insecurity that I really want to revisit with anyone else.

          Point being, when something taps into their deepest fears, people often react by withdrawing inward. So I can totally understand Ted not addressing it with Sally, not wanting to explain it to his coworkers, etc.

          1. Meep*

            From a female perspective, if you talk daily, she was probably amazed you didn’t spill the beans sooner. Doesn’t matter that you don’t know her well. Women want to know everything! If you barely talked, there is a possibility that you didn’t seem like the “type” or that she had a slight crush on you and was dismayed. Go with the latter.

            1. Roller*

              I get that you are trying to be comforting but as someone (female) who has been cornered into being told about my coworkers’ love lives before, I can honestly say I don’t care and I want to leave the conversation. I feel there is pressure on women to take an interest, and stating that women universally care about this stuff just isn’t true.

            2. Greg*

              No, that definitely wasn’t the context. We didn’t know each other particularly well, and this incident happened the year after we graduated, so we weren’t seeing much of each other at all (indeed, as I said, I haven’t seen her since). There’s no way she would have expected to know I was dating someone.

              She could have meant any number of things, and in retrospect, I should have just said, “What is that supposed to mean?” and let her squirm while she tried to explain. But the point of my story was my reaction rather than her intent.

            3. Lunita*

              Let’s not further stereotypes of women as being gossipy busybodies. Some are, and so are some men. So are some gender-neutral people.

          2. Alice906*

            Greg, this is such a thoughtful comment. It really helps shed light on what Ted’s experience might have been, and why he responded the way he did. I’m upset on your behalf!

            1. banoffee pie*

              Thanks for that story, Greg. I know what you mean about the first reaction being shame, then anger later. I’ve felt like that at times and then got mad at myself that I believed the insult, even for a while. The mean people/bullies have such self-confidence that people sometimes believe them, unfortunately.

      6. Mina, The Company Prom Queen*

        Yes, Ted should definitely let everyone know what Sally said. Otherwise, they will think he is being a jerk. Sally is the jerk, not Ted.

    2. L.H. Puttgrass*

      Can we please please please have a “Worst Co-Worker” award category this year? We have a sterling candidate right here.

      1. serenity*

        I don’t know, I also happen to think OP’s husband didn’t handle this well. This is the latest in a long line of letters where people ask what their oblivious spouse/partner should have done/should do at work. This workplace sounds like a hot mess but Ted isn’t doing so great either!

        1. Bluesboy*

          Did he handle it perfectly? Probably not. But let’s be honest, if I have a group of friends/co-workers who I am close with, except one of them prays for me to die, I’m probably not going to want that one at my wedding, and I’m not sure that there is a perfect way to handle that. He might have handled it wrongly, but I think he was classy by not blabbing to his whole group about what Sally told him.

          Sally caused this whole situation, so she should have done the decent thing and when people asked why she wasn’t invited just shut the whole thing down with ‘we get along fine, but we aren’t that close, so no worries’. Unfortunately I suspect that she thinks she just ‘tells it like it is’ and didn’t do anything wrong and is now offended to be excluded from the wedding.

          1. Elle Woods*

            Agree about on both points. Sally strikes me as someone who omits parts of the story that would reflect poorly on her and then tries to play the victim. Or, she’s really that dense and doesn’t understand the consequences of her actions.

            1. Meep*

              Could be possible that it was a passing thought to her and meaningless. I have a coworker who says the most off-putting, mean-spirited things and then completely forgets she said the horrible thing a second later.

              1. RebelwithMouseyHair*

                Yeah, I bet Sally would claim never to have said it – which is why it’s important to bring it up again asap rather than once everything has gone tits up.

              2. LunaLena*

                I find it hard to see how it was a passing thought when she specifically approached Ted with the intent to “confess.” As someone who has blurted out stuff I shouldn’t have because I wasn’t thinking, I can totally empathize over it being a thing, but I don’t think that’s the case here.

                Also just because they forget about it afterwards doesn’t excuse the behavior at all. In fact it makes it even worse, that they’re so careless about saying things that could affect the listener so deeply, and they should be called out on it even more.

          2. serenity*

            You’re right but, from what we’re getting here, this whole team has boundary issues and relationships that are probably not ideal for the workplace. And Ted likely contributes to that – I can’t see any other reason why he would have internalized those comments so much – and to such an unhealthy extent – if normal work boundaries existed.

            And Sally didn’t exactly cause the wedding brouhaha. Ted should have privately had a word with her and made clear that he was – and continues to be – offended by her comment. Or, been more conscious of what excluding only her would do to the larger team. As Alison said – the rest of the team has no idea what happened.

            1. Delphine*

              A team can have healthy boundaries and an individual can still internalize hurtful comments. It could be due to past experience, it could be that he’s just an anxious person or a person who struggles with confidence, or he might just have been extremely shaken from the car accident.

            2. allathian*

              Yeah. I can’t imagine ever wanting to invite my coworkers to a wedding. Coworkers who have become friends outside of work, maybe, if I was having a big wedding, and if I had any such friends. Ours was just for our immediate families, because neither one of us wanted the fuss of a big wedding.

          3. quill*

            I mean, from a quick reread she confronted him with this right after he returned to work from a life threatening hospital stay. It’s theoretically possible for him to have handled it better than “say nothing at the time and then have emotions about letting this person be at his wedding later,” but it’s not realistic to expect that of him.

            Probably Sally has told the rest of the women in the office that Ted has been treating her coldly since the accident and now she is the ONLY person not invited to their wedding. She doesn’t really have to lie for them to draw the wrong conclusion, especially if she’s a person who thinks that by confessing that she prayed for him to die she’s cleared the air and he should forgive her because she confessed. (It’s not that uncommon for that to be an undercurrent in christianity! Just usually not taken to this logical conclusion…)

          4. EPlawyer*

            Sally is waaay too into beinging her issues to the office. Bob loaned her money and advises her about her marriage. Just TMI.

            Ted needs to realize Sally likes Bob better because he indulges her drama not anything work related.

            Yes he needs to tell the office because BOB will probably be mortified at it too and start shutting Sally’s oversharing down. In fact the whoke office needs to take a step back

          5. ArtsyGirl*

            Agreed, honestly I am flabbergasted that Sally does not have the self-awareness to see how her statement from a few months ago that “I prayed you would die” and not receiving an invite to a wedding are connected. Did she really think that by confessing it that it would create instant forgiveness from Ted? After all, he had just lived through a traumatic experience and she somehow made it about her.

            2. hbc*

              I’m not surprised at all. Sally sounds like someone who has zero filter, and I’m sure she thinks it’s obvious that she likes Ted. I mean, objectively, choosing Bob the Money and Advice Giver does not diminish the value of Ted the Very Nice Coworker. He could still be a 9.6 out of 10 while Bob is a 9.97. Since she means well, there’s no harm in saying it, right?

              And to someone with no filter, they often can’t conceive of someone not spurting back whatever they might be thinking. Since Ted didn’t say, “Ouch, Sally, it’s really awful that you were even theoretically Sophie’s Choice-ing us,” nothing important happened in that conversation.

              1. Hekko*

                You can always pray for the survival of both, or if you really think God Almight only has plans to let one of the men survive, pray for the one you like better and not the other one. There’s no need to offer the other one as a sacrifice!

                And there’s no need to tell the one less liked about it at all. Unless you are wrecked with guilt and want to apologise and beg for forgiveness and even then, it’s your job to repair the relationship (and to realise you damaged it!).

                1. Sarah M*

                  Yes. It was already strange that she prayed for one person’s survival over the other vs. praying for both of them, but to go and *blab* about it to Ted the minute he’s back in the office/out of the hospital??? What the everlasting —-?! I seriously hope Ted tells the rest of the crew what she said, and explain that bo, he didn’t invite the person who *actually wished he would die in the hospital* to his wedding.

          6. L.H. Puttgrass*

            It seems like Ted was initially trying to avoid office drama and (unsuccessfully) move past it. The issue came to a head when it was time to decide whether to invite the person who told him that she prayed for his death to his wedding. At that point, he could invite her (ugh), tell the whole class what she said (ugh), not invite any of his co-workers (probably the best option, in retrospect), or just not invite Sally and hope she has the grace to understand why and not make a big deal of it. Choosing the last option shows a bad sense of drama-avoidance and a disastrously poor understanding of Sally, but I don’t understand why Ted made the decision he did.

            1. L.H. Puttgrass*

              That should read “I understand why Ted made the decision he did.”

              A little editing is a dangerous thing.

            2. wittyrepartee*

              Or like… only invite his bestie Bob. Then “it’s a very small wedding, family and a few close friends, blah blah blah” makes sense.

            3. RebelwithMouseyHair*

              Interesting that the other mistake “class” instead of “workgroup” didn’t hit you. Of course it didn’t, the drama level makes them all sound like they are in school still.

              1. ouchiHands*

                I think “tell/share with the whole class” is a highly idiomatic phrase at least in US English where it’s used in many contexts to mean “telling the entire group”, although there is usually the implication that there’s something immature or dramatic about the situation.

          7. Mina, The Company Prom Queen*

            Given how nuts-o Sally sounds, it doesn’t surprise me that she is making A Thing out of not being invited to the wedding. I’ve known people who really freak out whenever they aren’t invited to something, even if it’s an event it wouldn’t make sense for them to expect to be invited to. While we all get our feelings hurt or feel a little left out from time to time if we aren’t invited to something, but most of us don’t make it a big deal. These people really flip out and play the victim if they aren’t invited. Super annoying. And the people I’ve known to be like that were at least a little whack-a-doodle.

          8. RebelwithMouseyHair*

            OK so it’s classy not to blab about other people being nasty just for the sake of gossip. But when it gets to the point of gender war in the workplace (which is what OP is describing, all the women siding with Sally and all the men siding with Ted), you need to drop the classy stance and explain.
            Ted should have talked to Sally long before ever issuing any invitations. Ideally he should have just taken time to regroup and spoken to her within the week of her telling him about praying for him to die “you know Sally it really upset me the other day when you said you prayed for me to die rather than Bob. I don’t mind that you prefer him, after all he has indeed been there for you, but that’s not a reason to ask God to take me. …Unless you have a specific problem with me in which case it would be kind of you to let me know so I can perhaps explain or make amends”.
            Even explaining while issuing the invitations would have seemed tacky.

        2. L.H. Puttgrass*

          Ted’s only mistake was trying to move past an incredibly hurtful thing his co-worker told him, then not being able to move past it.

          On a scale from 1 to cheap-ass rolls, Ted’s actions are maybe a 1. Sally utterly destroyed the scale, scattered its shards to the four winds, and salted the earth anywhere they landed.

          3. Where’s the Orchestra?*

            This. Ted opted to not tell tales out of school, but the problem is coming up now because nobody else knows what in the world is going in here.
            Honestly though – do we really blame Ted given what seems to have been said to him by Sally? It would probably stun most people to “deer in headlights” immobility.

            1. serenity*

              Telling “tall tales out of school” means lying. Who is encouraging Ted to lie here?

              I think Ted is an adult with agency. He could have appropriately been really insulted and hurt by Sally’s comment – as he rightfully was – and handled it in such a way that didn’t cause more drama later. Not sure why this is controversial. This site has been chock full of instances of people behaving inappropriately or hurtfully at work and talking about the best ways to deal with that. This isn’t that.

              1. serenity*

                Actually “tall tales out of school” is more about revealing secret or confidential stuff. My bad. Still, doesn’t apply here. “My co-worker said something really hurtful and offensive” is not that.

              3. Where’s the Orchestra?*

                Where and when I was raised “telling tales out of school” also encompassed gossiping and spreading comments that would stir up drama (which let’s be honest – repeating Sally’s comments to the rest of the team is going to cause drama).
                Have to remember that just because something means something in one area, doesn’t mean it’s the same nationally, which is on me.

            2. Librarian of SHIELD*

              And I totally get why he wouldn’t have told anybody at the time. That’s a really weird thing for someone to tell a recent accident survivor and I don’t blame him for not knowing how to respond in the moment. Of course, in the moment has stretched into a long period of awkwardness and drama, and that’s not ideal. I do think Ted needs to tell at least one person what Sally said to explain why this is happening. Like, they don’t need to have a team meeting about it, but maybe the next time someone brings it up he should just respond honestly and see what happens.

            3. ArtsyGirl*

              Yes in my mind, Ted’s only mistake was not anticipating how excluding a single co-worker was going to play out in a overly friendly, small office. He likely assumed that Sally wouldn’t bring it up and maybe make an excuse about being busy that weekend, but it doesn’t seem like Sally has any filter or dignity. She is either mind-numbingly dense or she is a perpetual victim.

              1. Redd*

                I honestly wonder if Ted thought Sally would *want* to attend. I mean, she took it upon herself to let him know, “I like you and all, but not so much that I want you to live.”

                1. Fran Fine*

                  Yeah, it was probably a little bit of both not wanting her there and thinking she wouldn’t want to attend anyway.

                2. RebelwithMouseyHair*

                  I doubt Sally even remembers that cruel remark and would put money on her denying it were he to mention it now.

          4. Guacamole Bob*

            I think deflecting and saying the lack of invitations was for space reasons was a pretty big mistake. If he’d said something like “Sally said some really hurtful things to me after the accident, so we’re not close anymore” he might have been able to at least clue people in that he wasn’t just excluding her for no reason.

            I get the instinct to not gossip and repeat her exact words to everyone at top volume, but acting as if dropping one of a tight-knit circle from the invitation list is not going to cause any hurt feelings is a bizarrely oblivious move.

            2. serenity*

              acting as if dropping one of a tight-knit circle from the invitation list is not going to cause any hurt feelings is a bizarrely oblivious move.

              Bingo

              1. Aquawoman*

                I would tweak that to “acting as if dropping one of a dysfunctionally enmeshed group from the invitation list is not going to cause any hurt feelings is a bizarrely oblivious move.”

              2. pancakes*

                Yes, and I would say the same of wanting to remain friends with someone who sees the world the way Sally does. I think it’s bizarre for Ted to want the approval of someone who sees him as a prospective human sacrifice to an incredibly cruel, petty, and vindictive deity. I do not see the appeal of wanting the affection or esteem of someone who thinks this is a sensible or captivating view of human mortality.

                1. aebhel*

                  Honestly, it doesn’t even sound like he wants to be friends with her, just that he was hurt and blindsided and now wants nothing to do with her, and is also insecure in such a way that her comments made him second-guess all his other relationships at work (which, frankly, given how they’re acting, was… not unreasonable).

                2. pancakes*

                  Yeah, I agree. It’s hard enough to be recovering from a serious car accident even without insecurities about oneself, or about dealing with over-the-top coworkers.

            3. Rose*

              But it’s obviously not a close knit circle of friends if one is praying another dies. I feel like Ted learned sally was not his friend and reacted accordingly. He gave a polite excuse rather than stir up dram because he was expecting her to keep her side of the social contract and pretend there wasn’t weird crazy drama that she had created. He’s between a near death experience and his wedding so he’s prob really looking for the path of least resistance on things which is understandable.

              1. serenity*

                The problem is this is impossible to do in an office team that has blurred personal and work boundaries like this one seems to have. Anyway, I’m not interested in hearing more excuses about Ted’s not great handling of this situation – regardless of the fact that Sally’s comment was totally out of line – and I’m out.

              2. Despachito*

                “it’s obviously not a close knit circle of friends if one is praying another dies” AND if the rest are confronting Ted about that. I’d absolutely not want them left off the hook because THIS IS NOT DONE, and this is NOT the way friends, let alone coworkers, act.

            4. Quinalla*

              Agreed, if all the coworkers had been excluded, that is a great go-to reason. But when you exclude just one out of a group, folks are going to interpret that as just an excuse and wonder what the real reason is. I know the LW husband is probably thinking it isn’t “fair” to share his reasoning, but as long as you follow Alison’s advice and don’t trash talk – just state what happened – I think it will go much better. Will people still be upset and will drama still commence? Probably, but at least they’ll be upset for the right reasons.

              And agree 100% with all that said this situation is just revealing the messed up dynamics that already existed here – not causing them.

          5. Hannah Lee*

            Yeah, when I read the framing as “and *now* this is causing drama” all I could think of is Ted and LW did not cause the drama.
            Sally is the one who caused drama with 2 incredibly awful moves #1 actively wishing for her co-worker’s death after somehow creating a “deserves to live” workplace ranking and #2 telling Ted about it! WTAF. On both counts.

            Ted’s actions have just pulled back the curtain on drama that’s been there for awhile.
            The best course of action now is to explain why Sally was left off the guest list “she prayed for me to die” is a pretty good reason.
            But, honestly, I think the ship has sailed on this team ever recovering a good vibe. Even if Ted explains his actions, people are already entrenched painting Sally as a victim of Ted’s snub. And Ted now knows they will band together to snub him without addressing it. It may be time for Ted to look for a new job, with a new team that doesn’t have this baggage and “we’re a family … who secretly would sacrifice one of us to save the team saint” vibe.

            1. Mr. Shark*

              I agree. People are blaming Ted, when he was just trying to be polite and nice. Really, forget Sally. She caused all of this. Ted should just come out and tell people the truth, rather than dodging it, at this point.
              Saying that Sally said something hurtful is fine, but I don’t even think that goes far enough. Just tell people the truth, and that Sally is not someone you want around on your special day.

              1. RJ*

                I agree. Ted doesn’t owe Sally anything and he should just tell the truth.

                And then look for a new job because this place sounds bonkers.

              2. Great Grey Owl*

                Ted would probably be a fine addition to a normal, functional workplace. Unfortunately, that is not his current workplace. And, having a coworker describe how “she prayed for you to die instead of your coworker, who helped her and thus deserved to live more than you do” is not found in typical business classes or handbooks.

                I don’t understand why people are faulting him for not perfectly responding to this abnormal workplace.

            2. Florp*

              +1 If people keep asking him, Ted could say “Here’s why I didn’t invite Sally: she prayed for my death because I’m low on her deserves to live workplace ranking, and then she decided to tell me about it as if it was a normal thing. Maybe you should ask her where you stand on her list.” Imagine that being a thing you have to say at work! So bizarre. I’m really hoping for an update on this one!

              2. allathian*

                Yeah, me too. I understand why Ted was blindsided in the moment. But really, I can’t understand what Sally was thinking when she told Ted about the praying.

                1. RebelwithMouseyHair*

                  I would have been blindsided – that’s normal. But I would have mentioned it later once I’d regrouped, and explained to my colleagues that I couldn’t consider Sally a friend after that incident.
                  If it’s such a “tight-knit group” others should have noticed that Ted and Sally were no longer being friendly to each other surely?

          6. The Prettiest Curse*

            I take the view that if my colleagues are praying for my death or burning me in effigy or whatever else, that’s their business. Telling someone you work with that you prayed for them to die (even after an accident) falls squarely into the category “creating unnecessary workplace drama for no good reason.”
            And on the topic of wedding invites … wedding invites and work are a total minefield. If he didn’t want to get into what Sally said to him (which is totally understandable), Ted should have pleaded venue size or Covid restrictions and said it was family only at the wedding.

        3. CBB*

          Ted is not well suited for life in a drama llama zoo.

          He’s not adept at understanding what’s going on: First, in the way he took Sally’s comment to heart without realizing that not everyone thinks like that. Second, in not realizing that inviting everyone but Sally would be an issue.

          I hope he eventually finds himself in a workplace where people don’t get all up in each other’s personal business.

          1. Dr. Honeymaid*

            I am literally a trauma surgeon. If you think everyone *ranks who gets to live* you are sorely mistaken.

            Good lord, I have some dark humor, but that’s unreal.

            2. Lab Boss*

              I don’t know, I could see thinking that way. Not in an intentional “I have created a list of my coworkers in order of survival preference” sort of way, but a lot of people react to trauma by bargaining with God/Karma/their flavor of the greater power. I can see someone landing on that point, of “OK, universe, this is terrifying, PLEASE don’t take Bob, if you have to take someone take Ted” without ever actively deciding that’s how you were going to be thinking.

              Of course actually TELLING EITHER OF THEM is where she crossed a huge, flashing, glowing line.

              1. pancakes*

                I don’t think the question should be “are there indeed people who think this way” so much as “should the rest of us want their friendship or approval?” Answers to that will vary, of course, but it doesn’t seem like Ted has even begun to consider it for himself.

              2. wittyrepartee*

                Yeah man. People under stress think all sorts of crazy things. You don’t tell those horrible things to traumatized people! Comfort in, Dump out. Sally desperately needed to dump out. Way out. Out of the office out.

                2. Blue*

                  Yeah, I’m a firm believer that people are not responsible for 90% of what goes on in our heads, but we are responsible for 100% of what comes out of our mouths!

        4. emmelemm*

          I’m pretty sure wishing someone would die *and telling them that* is so far beyond anything “Ted” might have done that anything else is immaterial.

        5. Great Grey Owl*

          I don’t think that there are many etiquette books that tell you how to politely respond to a coworker who admits praying for your death. And, if he had what he thought was a good relationship with this coworker, I am sure her comments shocked him & shocked people don’t behave perfectly.

          Since I have had violent coworkers in the past, I would not have wanted to take any chances and would have reported her immediately. While it might not be a direct threat, there is no good reason for her to have shared her prayer for his death. My advice to Ted, if he doesn’t think he can report her, is to look for another job away from this toxic workplace.

      2. Sandy Trap*

        +1!

        How on Earth could Sally think that expressing this thought to a man who was in a serious traffic accident was at all acceptable and that she would experience no consequences? Her comments were extremely inappropriate. I am gob-smacked.

        1. Keymaster of Gozer (she/her)*

          I survived a very near fatal car crash some years ago. I’m now wondering how I’d react if someone had said they prayed that I didn’t make it.

          ‘What the actual (redacted) (more redacted) you complete (redacted) tosser?!’ probably with language and volume that would put ME on a warning from the boss for losing it. There’s tears in my eyes just thinking about this.

          1. Thursdaysgeek*

            And if you believe that God can heal people (and I do, usually with the help of medical professionals), he isn’t required to triage his miracles. I would have prayed for you AND Ted AND Bob – why limit to saving just one? I’m glad you survived your accident.

            1. Anonym*

              THIS. Good grief, this! It’s so bizarre! Almost as bizarre as telling someone you prayed for their death…

            3. WiJ*

              Exactly! It’s not like God asked her to rank her coworkers and choose who should live or die – or at least I would hope not…

              1. The Rules are Made Up*

                She just decided that it had to be either/or apparently and that’s so odd to me.

                Sally: “God if you HAVE to take one please let it be Ted”
                God: “Um who said I was taking anybody?”
                Sally: “Okay but if you INSIST then please just take Ted!”
                God: “I really never said one had to ….”
                Sally: “TED”
                God”………”

            4. NotAnotherManager!*

              Yeah, I was never under the impression that prayer was an attempt at negotiating with God or that, if you limited your request to saving one coworker, that one was more likely to survive/be saved by the almighty.

              I think Sally has a lot of issues and not being invited to a wedding is the least of them.

              2. The Prettiest Curse*

                Yeah, the many bizarre ways that people find to misinterpret the religion of their choice never fail to amaze me.

              3. Worldwalker*

                Does Sally actually think that God consults with *her* about what actions He should take?

                “Hm … I think I’ll kill one of these two … better ask Sally which one it should be.”

                The combination of a peasant understanding of God (“I can make prayer magic”) with utter arrogance (“I can make God do what I want”) is staggering.

            5. Thoughts&Prayers*

              When I hear of things like this, I pray that both come through okay but also that they don’t suffer should they die.

              I sure as heck would not ask God to pick and choose – OMG!

          2. Coffee Bean*

            I know. I mean – why would anyone even think that saying anything other than ” I am glad you are okay. I am glad both if you are okay” and instead saying “I prayed for you to die . . .” I just can’t.

        2. KoiFeeder*

          I would have started biting right then and there, honestly. Hopefully not literally, but hearing something like that after a serious accident and a hospital stay would have shunted me solidly into some severe panic behavior… and I don’t have a flight mode.

        3. Roxie*

          Sally appears to be one of those people with no brains and no filter.

          My thoughts are that Ted should go to her, tell her that he was quite disturbed by her remarks after his recovery, and thus felt uncomfortable about inviting her to a momentous event in his life. He could then suggest that he will clear the air and disclose his reason for the snub to the others unless she would prefer to go to eachof the others herself along the lines of “I said something unkind to him and the non-invite is justified.” Ted should put a short deadline on when Sally should accomplish this. This gives her a chance to save some face by owning up to her fault without confessing the full details.

    3. mreasy*

      I started hyperventilating at the headline and this did NOT disappoint. Like. Weird enough to pray for someone’s death? Like that’s how it would work???? But to TELL THE PERSON? I just…wow.

      1. Where’s the Orchestra?*

        Yeah – I get not wanting to out Sally, and I also totally understand why this gave Ted pause and made him yank her off the invite list – but at this point you need to make it clear to Sally “what she said” in the aftermath of the crash is why she is not welcome at the wedding.

      3. Aquawoman*

        Not only tell them but then double down on it like OF COURSE they prayed for him to die because “You have to admit you can’t measure up to [Bob].”

        1. fhqwhgads*

          It’s almost like she was thinking of them as like…characters in a video game rather than actual human beings.

        2. DJ Abbott*

          I saw lot of this growing up in a fundamentalist area. I don’t remember hearing about praying for someone to die, but the fundamentalists were always going around saying they prayed for a person to do this or that and they were completely self-absorbed and unaware.
          The phrase “I prayed for you (to)…” is a common form of communication with them.

      4. Open mouth, insert both (homicidal?) feet!*

        I had a colleague who told another that they had considered killing them. And considered it perfectly fine to say, since supposedly they were no longer homicidal. And was shocked! Shocked! That police were called and investigations performed.

          1. Open mouth, insert both (homicidal?) feet!*

            Yeppers, the homicidal one blamed the potential victim for some work drama and was considering taking her out. Seemed perfectly content with announcing her previous plan since, well, it was now perfectly acceptable since she hadn’t killed the colleague. Self-absorbed, party of one!!!

            2. Meep*

              OMG. That is next-level crazy. I have in passing said “I am going to kill them” when my coworkers do something stupid but never would I actually consider killing them. (None of them are worth jail time. JK. Mostly…)

              1. Artemesia*

                I know a promising chef fired from a position where she had been doing great and been getting promotions when she jokingly said ‘I’m going to kill you’ when a co-worker did something that ruined her preparation of a dish. It was OBVIOUSLY not a serious threat and she did not have a record of threats or violence — but their HR basically took a ‘zero tolerance’ stance and she was out of there.

                2. Despachito*

                  This seems to me VERY exaggerated on the part of their HR.

                  I’d understand if they gave her a warning but to fire a stellar employee after ONE possibly inappropriate but apparently harmless… seems too much for me.

        2. Great Grey Owl*

          Sounds like you worked my former employer I had a colleague who frequently received death threats from our other colleagues. Some of these threats were quite graphic.

          Glad the police were called on your colleague and hope that the potentially homicidal coworker was fired.

          1. mophie*

            Wait you had a coworker who received graphic death threats from your “colleagues”? As in plural? And “frequently?”
            I think maybe it’s the coworker who had the problem…

            1. Despachito*

              I cannot imagine any behaviour deserving graphic death threats.

              I can imagine “oh, you deleted my week’s work, Fergus, I’ll kill you”. I’d assume everyone will know i am NOT going to literally kill him, just that I am angry. People do not get killed at the workplace.

              But if I described in gory details HOW I am going to do that…. I’d be seriously worried for Fergus’s wellbeing. Fergus might be an awful employee but still does not deserve this.

              Unless you meant Fergus is paranoid and making things up (and in this case I agree with you).

    4. Meep*

      My Sally told me that it wouldn’t be such a big deal if /I/ got COVID but if /she/ got it, she could die multiple times last year while frequently exposing me to COVID like it wasn’t a big deal. Ignoring the long-term effects that were already known at that point.

      I believe it. Some people have no filter and what is inside is horrible. I guarantee Sally doesn’t even remember what she said as it par the course with her.

      1. Paulina*

        Sally told Ted about her biased prayers to clear her conscience from having done it. She gave no thought at all as to how the confession would impact Ted, and she wouldn’t have thought about it since, that having been the point of clearing her conscience. Her act to clear her conscience was the actual offensive thing, but that doesn’t cross the mind of people like Sally.

        1. Keymaster of Gozer (she/her)*

          Oh the old ‘it’s okay if I do/say a horrific thing if I confess it afterwards’ trope.

          2. NotAnotherManager!*

            With a side of, “if you don’t immediately forgive me because I was honest, then YOU’RE the terrible person”.

          3. Les Cargot*

            The traditional 12-step programs for recovery from addiction (Alcoholics Anonymous and such) include a “searching and fearless moral inventory” of oneself and following up with admitting “to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.” Later, other steps involve willingness to make amends to the persons they have harmed and then making “direct amends to such people wherever possible, ***except when to do so would injure them or others***.” (emphasis mine).

            If Sally felt guilty about something she prayed for, the proper thing to do would be to talk it out with someone in her faith community, possibly a leader/clergy or a friend who can be trusted to keep confidences, or maybe even a secular counselor. Instead, she added emotional injury to physical injury in dumping all this on poor Ted, then and she compounded it by complaining about not being invited to the wedding instead of recognizing the omission as a natural consequence of her cruelty.

            At this point it would be reasonable for Ted to tell the truth, whether verbatim or softened (as Guacamole Bob suggested, “said some hurtful things to me after the accident”), or raise the issue with his manager, to whom I would suggest telling the whole truth.

            1. Les Cargot*

              ETA: If I were Ted, I would leave Bob entirely out of whatever he needs to say. It’s unfair to Bob, even if he is part of an apparently unhealthy enmeshment culture at work, to involve him. If I were Bob, I would be horrified to hear that someone I had been nice to had prayed for someone else — anyone else — to die instead of me.

              1. zinzarin*

                This is all the more reason to include the relative details about Bob’s ranking when sharing this story. Sally deserves for Bob (assuming he’s a reasonable person) to “wtf?!?” this news and drop Sally to the bottom of his own list.

            2. wittyrepartee*

              Yeah, as a former Catholic, my reaction was: “That’s EXACTLY what a priest is for.”
              Do not confess your unkind thoughts to the subjects of those thoughts. Crikey!

        2. DrSalty*

          Yep this was my take. She felt bad about it and therefore decided to confess to make herself feel better, completely oblivious to how hurtful this would be for Ted. Some people have the emotional intelligence of a toaster.

            1. Crumbledore*

              That last bit really crosses the line into non-apology territory – not that the rest of it was any good, of course.

              1. banoffee pie*

                Yeah she got defensive and tried to make Ted admit the other guy was better. That’s my read anyway, she was sure she was right and why couldn’t Ted see it?!

        3. Falling Diphthong*

          This comes up a lot re confessing affairs: “I told you I lied, so now I feel great! Whew! Now we move on to the part where you forgive me and everything is fine again. …Why is that part taking so long?”

          A very common human impulse.

        4. Meep*

          Exactly. People like Sally only care about themselves. Once they make themselves feel better they forget how they hurt the other person.

      2. pope suburban*

        Ugh, I can relate. I have a colleague who left to work remotely as soon as possible, and didn’t come back until months after everyone else- which is fine, everyone should be able to do what they need for their health. But she kept manufacturing situations where I’d have to come into contact with the public, before the vaccine, when cases here were out of control. We could have set up a pick-up/drop-off table that could be sanitized, but she was aggressive about making me leave the building and have sustained (and unusual for the job) interactions with God knows who. I didn’t feel that I could safely push back and it has permanently damaged our relationship. Some people are really comfortable with thinking of others as disposable, and of course they have no compunction about making that apparent.

        1. Olivia Mansfield*

          Almost as if her security in her own safety was enhanced by seeing evidence of someone else’s diminished safety.

          1. pope suburban*

            You’re not wrong. The part that I found exceptionally frustrating is that this person clearly understood that COVID was a serious threat, and was being scrupulous about following protocols in her own life. If she had been a denier, well, that would also have been terrible, but at least there would have been some internal consistency. As it stood, it was just this stark reminder that *she* matters, where *I* am expendable. As you can imagine, it fit with a larger pattern of behavior, it was just the most egregious example.

        2. Meep*

          People are selfish are they not?

          I ended up jumping on the Moderna vaccine trial when my coworker let me sit in a room with our unmasked boss after he had been exposed to covid. She only told me afterward. Then while she was ranting and raving about irresponsible HE was (while taking off her mask), she drops the line “This is serious. My friend, [Name], is waiting on a COVID test. She is symptomatic right now. Speaking of [Name], we went out to dinner last night and it was so weird how few people were at the restaurant.”

          Yep….

          1. pope suburban*

            Oh my God. That’s completely horrifying and I’m so sorry you were put in that position. I applied for the trials for similar reasons but did not make it in. Fortunately I ended up not being sick or, to the best of my knowledge, ever being exposed, but it was very scary for a while. I’m endlessly grateful that my state included public employees in the second or third wave of eligibility. I don’t think I’m bulletproof now, but being able to get the shot did a lot for my peace of mind for sure.

        3. Mina, The Company Prom Queen*

          I know what you mean. Anyone who tries to pressure me into doing anything like that, that I’m uncomfortable with due to the pandemic is a deal breaker for me. If they ask if I will do something that is non-essential, I decline and say I’m uncomfortable with it due to the pandemic, and they still push back, that is it for them as far as I’m concerned. I will still be civil to them if I have to work with or deal with them in any way. But make no mistake, they mean nothing to me and I will only do the minimum for them and only when I have to. No other person gets to decide that it’s ok for me to contract a potentially deadly or debilitating virus.

    5. Keymaster of Gozer (she/her)*

      I’ve had people in the last year+ actively HOPE that I get Covid instead of their family/friends etc because they’re of more value to society than me. There are some really evil self-centred arseholes out there.

      I’m all in favour of straight up telling Sally ‘you said you prayed for my death, said I wasn’t as good a human as someone else, what exactly was your end goal for telling me that?’

      Because I cannot conceive of any answer that makes even a modicum of sense.

      Eff Sally. Sally sucks.

        1. Keymaster of Gozer (she/her)*

          Yeah. They really can. Harkening back to yesterday’s post on self care I’m gonna go take the iPad offline and read some Pratchett because there’s really nothing more I can read or contribute to on this particular letter. It’s a little too close to home.

          1. Batty Twerp*

            Sounds like a plan, since I’m afraid I’m to incoherent to offer much advice.
            Which book? I’m thinking one of the Witches – Nanny Ogg makes me laugh, and I don’t think I could handle anything too heavy right now.

            /Derail

            1. Keymaster of Gozer (she/her)*

              It was Raising Steam in the end, but it makes reference to my home town and the industry I work in so it’s like a comfort thing. It’s a rough time here, I’m unable to get to the office or anywhere because of the uk fuel crisis (car is empty) and being disabled and so I probably sound like I’ve lost hope. It’ll get better.

              1. Blue*

                It’s a shit time for us right now, especially for us disabled people. It wears you down.
                A bit of Pterry sounds like just the thing, he always makes me feel slightly better about the world.

                2. Keymaster of Gozer (she/her)*

                  Yeah, I used to have a quote from one of his books on my lab coat at university. Ahh well, stuck at home again but I got my ‘anthill inside’ sticker on my laptop so is good :)

          2. LunaLena*

            If you haven’t decided on a book yet, may I suggest Nation. It’s my favorite Pratchett book to read when I’m angry or upset because it’s a book that he wrote when he was full of anger himself, but it also shows that anger can be productive. Plus Mau’s defiant “does not happen!” always reminds me that, even though we live in a world where we have little control over anything, we do have some over the little part that we inhabit.

            Hope you feel better soon, it’s really terrible how easy it is for people to say thoughtless and horrible things like that.

          3. Jules the 3rd*

            yeesh! People can suck. I’ve enjoyed your commenting here, and hope you live long and well and happily. Pratchett is a good path for that! (I have finally got my kid past Guards! Guards!, can’t wait for him to hit The Truth and Going Postal…)

            1. Worldwalker*

              Am I a bad person because I just never liked Going Postal? *worried look*

              My personal favorite is Small Gods. Maybe because I like tortoises.

                1. allathian*

                  I’ve been stuck with Small Gods now for a while… My favorite stories are the one with Rincewind, and especially The Luggage, and the books with the witches, especially Witches Abroad.

              2. Robin Ellacott*

                Small Gods is my favourite. :) I use it as a gateway drug when getting people to try the Discworld books.

                For an angry read I would suggest anything Vimes or Monstrous Regiment, but then all TP’s books are filled with righteous anger coupled with the desire to make things better.

          4. Coffee Bean*

            I am sorry, KeyofG. That must have been awful, and I wish it hadn’t happened to you. From your posts, I really believe you are a great and insightful manager.

      3. Formerly Ella Vader*

        RIGHT??!

        In my belief system, there is no zero-sum scorekeeping power in charge of the universe. Whether or not a stranger dies of Covid does not affect whether someone I care about dies of Covid. Except in situations when someone has to choose who gets the ICU bed and the ventilator, those are independent occurrences.

        Similarly, only in television medical dramas would there be a situation of, two people are in an accident and whether one person dies determines whether the other person lives.

        Probability and statistics doesn’t work that way, physics doesn’t work that way, and as far as I can think of, there aren’t any common teachings of God working that way.

        2. Worldwalker*

          There is an absolutely scary number of people who believe the “Gambler’s Fallacy” — that if you flip a coin and it comes up heads 9 times, the 10th flip is certain to be tails.

          1. nonegiven*

            If I flip a coin and it comes up heads 9 times, I start wondering if I have a two headed coin and might want to check.

      4. Where’s the Orchestra?*

        Yup – Sally strikes me as the person who “is just being honest” without ever considering the impact of that “honesty” on the rest of the world around them.
        Let’s not be too harsh on Ted – Sally’s comments obviously completely threw him for a loop. But now I think Ted needs to be clear that Sally made some incredibly hurtful comments, and now he doesn’t feel able or comfortable with Sally at the wedding.

        1. Cathy Gale*

          Right! The “take me as I am, this is it, and if you don’t like what I have to say, it’s your problem”. AKA “I’m not just oblivious, I’m narcissistic and think everyone should bow down to my personal wisdom.”

          Sally’s creepy comment did not need to be said to anyone, and has destroyed the ability of this team to get things done.

        2. Junimo the Hutt*

          “I’m just being honest.”

          “Well, cool. In your honesty, you also forgot to be kind. Which is HONESTLY more important.”

          1. pope suburban*

            This makes me think of the set of questions from, I think, Dear Abby, that you should ask yourself before you give voice to a thought: Is it true? Is it useful? Is it kind?

            Someone else had a variation on it that I also liked: Does this need to be said? Does this need to be said by me? Does this need to be said by me, right now?

            Sally seems like the kind of person who could benefit from being drilled with both concepts. People who are enamored of brutal honesty tend to care more about the brutality than the honesty, and that’s really no way to go through life.

        3. Artemesia*

          ‘incredibly hurtful’ is too little. At this point he needs to say ‘look I realize by not repeating what Sally said to me it made it hard for everyone not to understand why I didn’t invite her to my wedding. I assumed she knew and would not make a fuss. When Bob and I came back to work after that terrible accident where we both almost died she made a point to seek me out and say she had prayed that I would die if only Bob could live. After that I really can’t be around her or have her at something as important as my wedding. ‘

          Anything vaguer than that just invites more drama.

      6. Snappybackb....*

        Be sure to ask her that question in front at least 3 female co-workers! Yeah I am petty and mean, Sally want drama, me give Sally drama!!!!

      7. Chelle*

        I don’t understand this. It’s not like there are 3 COVIDs to go around and if 3 people get it then no one else does.

      8. Worldwalker*

        In some Jewish traditions, if you see smoke coming up from your neighborhood, it’s considered wrong to hope/pray that your house isn’t the one on fire, because that means you’re actually praying for a neighbor’s house to burn down. I can see how that works.

        A really nice guy I knew slightly died of COVID last week. Anti-vaxxers have a lot to answer for.

          1. Artemesia*

            tell it to the family that has tens of thousands in unnecessary hospital bills for their child’s appendicitis because he couldn’t get treatment till after it had burst because the ER and ICU were filled with unvaccinated COVID patients. Luckily the kid didn’t die; he could have. But a fairly minor event became a major one because he could not get help timely. And of course several adults have died when they couldn’t get treatment timely.

        2. Lady Kelvin*

          I have no intention of making a joke out of a truly awful situation, I am currently high risk for COVID (8 months pregnant) and have literally been housebound for two months because of anti-vaxx idiots (I am vaccinated but am taking no chances), but the first time I read your comment all I could think of was “how does someone slightly die of COVID”. English syntax is weird.

      9. Robin Ellacott*

        More. Value. To. Society????

        Let me at them.

        I’m so sorry. You sound witty and kind, which is more than can be said of most people. More fools them for not seeing it.

      10. Despachito*

        Wh… What…?

        Keymaster, I am so sorry you have such stupid asshats around.

        What a stupid, hurtful, rude, unnecessary thing for them to say. Please do not give them a second thought. There is something seriously wrong with them.

        And now excuse me, I am going downstairs to pick my jaw up from the floor.

      11. CoveredInBees*

        What a revolting thing for them to say. There is also an excessive amount of COVID to go around for everyone.

    6. Artemesia*

      This. Ted erred in not telling people why she wasn’t invited. Only hope in rescuing this now is to share that as Alison suggested. Otherwise HE will always be the nasty unkind one at work.

      1. Keymaster of Gozer (she/her)*

        ‘Sally told me she prayed for my death after the accident. She. Told. Me. So forgive me if I want nothing to do with her’

          1. Carol the happy elf*

            I’d give Ted a “forgiving” script, though. Macchiavelli here, not Saint Francis.
            I put something further down, where Ted gathers all but Sally, and explains to them (and Bob) that Sally said that she prayed that Ted would die instead of Bob, and he’s sorry he gave that blather about a small venue- it IS small, but he knew that Sally would feel such horrible guilt over having said that painful thing to him, that she would feel as thoigh he was rubbing his happiness in her face if he invited her, and it would make her feel such horrible guilt….

            Then, Ted, trail it off RIGHT THERE. SERIOUSLY. Walk away, shoulders slumped. If (when) anyone asks what in the name of all the flying monkeys Sally meant, or said, just say that in times of extreme danger or shock, people say what they mean. Then ask for some privacy.

            1. Thin Mints didn't make me thin*

              damn, you’re good. Like you should be a consultant to evil masterminds or something.

        2. Just Another Zebra*

          “She told me, with no remorse or repentance, that she prayed for my death if it meant saving Bob.”

          1. Hannah Lee*

            I’d leave Bob completely out of it.

            Because that sets up a dynamic of the other team members slipping right past “she told me she wished me dead” and going straight to “Hmmm, Ted or Bob? Who would I want to save if I could only save one? Well, Sally’s got a point, actually! And Ted leaving her off his wedding invite list proves it!”

            “Sally prayed for my death when I was in the hospital after that horrible accident. And SHE TOLD ME about it! I don’t want to spend the happiest day of my life with someone who wished me dead.”

            Let Sally be the one to try to justify her value judgements about her co-workers.

            1. Elizabeth West*

              Yeah, leave Bob out of it. If Sally wants to say that out loud, let her. It will make her look like the shitty one.

            2. Yorick*

              If you’re gonna tell people she prayed you died, you have to explain why. It’s messed up that she did it, but she didn’t just want him to die in general.

              1. Gothic Bee*

                That’s just splitting hairs. It’s not better just because she only wanted him to die in order for Bob to live and there’s no reason for Ted to get into all the details here. She can explain further if she wants to.

                1. Aggretsuko*

                  Literally it doesn’t make sense that either Bob or Ted should die, unless somehow a vital organ transplant was involved. Clearly Sally made that up in her own whackadoodle head.

              2. Just Another Zebra*

                This is what I was thinking. There’s definitely a nuanced awfulness here. And I worry that if he leaves out the “instead of Ted” bit, it will look like he’s hiding something to make Sally appear worse. Which is what I think would happen.

                1. Hannah Lee*

                  Ted: “Sally did this awful thing, she prayed for me to die … and then told me about it. I made me feel awful at an already stressful time. I don’t want someone who wished me dead at my wedding”
                  Team: “Why did she do that?”
                  Ted: “Ask her. BTW Is there any possible reason that would make it ok?

                2. AstralDebris*

                  Here’s the script:
                  “Right when I came back after the accident, Sally came up to me and told me that while I was in the hospital, she prayed that if somebody ‘had to die,’ that it be me.”

                  Possible addendum:
                  “When I expressed hurt and shock, she proceeded to tell me, in excruciating detail, how much better of a human Bob is than me. And then she just walked away. I am trying to move past this and not have it affect our work, but obviously given all of that I am not comfortable having someone who prayed for my death at my wedding.”

              3. Cthulhu’s Librarian*

                No, no they really don’t. Each of us is responsible for explaining our own actions. Sally can explain why she did what she did – it is not on Ted to explain for her.

              4. Pennyworth*

                I suspect if he just says that Sally prayed for his death after the accident and it gets back to she, she will immediately explain that it was only because she likes Bob better.

      2. Falling Diphthong*

        Yes, this is that awkward space where Ted was in the right and Sally in the wrong all the way through… but you can’t give someone the cut direct and expect there to be no resulting drama in the tight knit group. Work group, games group, old college pal group.

        A calm “I didn’t invite Sally because she told me that when I was in the hospital she prayed for me to die” gives the rest of the group the context they need to understand what’s going on. Still drama, but at least people aren’t guessing as to the background of the tension.

    8. NeutralJanet*

      It would be rude enough for her to just tell Ted that she prefers Bob, even though it’s perfectly normal to be better friends with certain members of a group than others…but the fact that she told him she prayed he would die?!

      1. Be kind, rewind*

        Exactly. The underlying message she sent is “here’s all the reasons why Bob deserves to live more than you do”… That is so hurtful and unforgivable that I am in complete shock that she sees nothing wrong with this.

        1. paxfelis*

          I think HR, or someone with power to enforce consequences on Sally who isn’t embroiled in this mess, needs to make sure that all of this aid that Bob has been giving is truly voluntary. I find it likely that Bob doesn’t want Sally to unleash drama, so he helps her to avoid that possibility.

    9. Falling Diphthong*

      I’m surprised how often this comes up–“I’ll only be in difficulty if people find out…. better tell some people.”

      I think it’s sort of like having an intense dream that Bob from Accounts Receivable was killed in a terrible photocopier mishap: To the dreamer it feels real and akin to relating what Bill from Accounts Payable did on the weekend, but to everyone else it’s a bizarre unloading of your subconscious that no one wanted to hear.

    10. Momma Bear*

      I think at this point Ted should 1. consider counseling if his Imposter Syndrome is hampering his work and 2. just be upfront about why you aren’t inviting Sally and 3. if the other women don’t come, that is their choice. Enjoy the people who do. Weddings are such drama and it’s amazing that we don’t all just elope and avoid it all. If the team freezing him out is now causing problems with work, he should document the work related things when he speaks to his boss. He needs to get ahead of the drama vs letting it happen to him.

        1. JJ Bittenbinder*

          Elopement high-fives!

          We mostly avoided drama, but there were literally zero friends or family members invited. I can’t imagine we’d been able to invite 1 or 2 to accompany us without the resounding choruses of “why them and not me?”

          1. KaciHall*

            We planned a very small wedding – my dad was never going to be able to come so we decided to just invite one friend each as a witness, and a mutual friend (who was already ordained) was going to marry us in the park.

            Well then my mother in law got wind of it, started inviting people to our wedding, and asked where she should tell them to park. So when we picked up the license the week before, I jokingly asked if we could just get it officiated right then and there. And we could. So I got married in jeans and a sweater,. We had no witnesses with us so the judge’s secretaries signed.

            I miss my plans a little bit for my tiny wedding, but the drama after eloping was SO much less than it would’ve been if we had tried to go through with the ceremony.

            1. Despachito*

              Oh dear.

              What’s wrong with people thinking that they have ANY say in OTHER people’s ceremony.

              There would be so much drama avoided if everyone was able to understand that I DO NOT HAVE ANY RIGHT TO DECIDE WHATSOEVER about any wedding but my own.

    11. Boof*

      I’m visualizing what went down and it’s a bit worse than a randomly mean thing – it sounds like Ted had just had some serious trauma (I had a car accident a while ago that wasn’t my fault, and fortunately no one was injured, but even just that seriously rattles your sense of well-being), and then Sally STOMPS ON HIM WHEN HE’S DOWN. No support, just “by the way I like bob better than you, I was hoping at least he wold make it”, apparently as soon as Ted is looking to get back to “normal” returning to work.
      It’s so outlandish I have to wonder if Sally knows Ted is insecure and is somehow enjoying watching him be crushed? Or maybe Sally just likes being the center of attention? Maybe there’s some charitable interpretation where Sally is just deeply selfish and thinks her guilt and wishes are the main thing that matters – but in the end, she did a deeply crappy thing and I think most of society would be horrified. Ted is best off just letting the team and Sally know a) what happened and that b) he is just not comfortable inviting Sally to his personal wedding after that, especially with a limited venue.

      It’s actually an incredibly crappy thing to do and I think the best thing to do is for Ted to air it out, if Ted is willing to listen. Ted definitely doesn’t need to protect Sally from her own actions by hiding it.

      1. Sarah M*

        This.

        I don’t understand what would drive someone to do stomp on someone that just experienced a trauma, I really don’t. I had something very similar happen to me, and I have never forgiven that person for mocking me (I was very close to the WTC on 9/11, and was there for the whole thing. He mocked me for having PTSD afterwards, joked that he now “knew an actual psychopath [sic]”.) I did not react with as much poise as Ted did/has in this situation, either. I retaliated verbally against that person later, in a way I’m really not proud of, and I really regret doing that. I fully acknowledge that I deserve it, but guess who the A/H became in our friend group? Yep.

        2. Boof*

          Uck, that’s terrible that someone would mock you for that (and psychopath, how does that even fit?! – rhetorical question).

    12. emmelemm*

      Been reading AAM a long time now, and in the realm of coworker v. coworker issues, this *might* take the cake.

    13. anycat*

      i am also SO THANKFUL that i don’t encounter these weirdos at my current job. in past lives… probably..

    14. feral fairy*

      Stop trying to find excuses for Sally. Frankly, discussions of prayer shouldn’t be part of the workplace at all, but obviously in practice in the US that doesn’t always happen. But when you get to the second paragraph, this comment really becomes fanfiction. While the idea of someone saying this out loud is appalling, it is truly not that far out of the realm of possibility to warrant speculating that the fiance was in a state of psychosis (!!!). And to your other speculation, it doesn’t sound like Sally was apologizing, first of all. Second of all, her specific spiritual beliefs are not really relevant here. Whether someone came up to me and said “When you got in that car crash, I hoped that if someone died it would be you” or “I prayed to God that he would take you and not Bob” I’d be hurt and infuriated by either statement. The second would actually bother me more as a religious minority because God doesn’t belong in a secular workplace. How are they both not examples of workplace bullying?

    15. aebhel*

      I’m fairly sure he wasn’t dealing with post-anesthesia hallucinations by the time he was back at work.

      And why all the bending over backward to assume that Todd was lying, mistaken, or hallucinating (!?). People exactly as awful as Sally exist all over the place.

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      It’s a Shakespearean tragedy. Act I establishes the 10 years close-knit team. Act II is the car crash. Act III is Sally’s confession and the wedding invitations. We’re now in Act IV.

      I just hope at this point that half of Ted’s work team doesn’t jump ship.

      2. Shakespeare*

        ACT I, SCENE iii: Sally’s bedroom

        (Sally, kneeling bedside, deep in prayer.)

        SALLY: God, please if you’re listening, don’t take Bob from me. Bob is a saint! He loans me money. Take Ted if you must.

        GOD: WTF

        GOD: who gave u this number

        5. L.H. Puttgrass*

          Today’s “good reason I’m working at home so people don’t wonder why I’m laughing uncontrollably” award goes to Shakespeare.

          That’s an instant classic, that is.

      4. The New Wanderer*

        I was thinking this is like one of those basic sitcom plots, where the entire half hour could have been avoided with one quick clarifying conversation.

        Ted: “After Bob’s and my horrible accident Sally made a point of telling me she hoped I died rather than Bob, which kind of put a damper on 10 years of friendship and after that I didn’t feel like she should attend my wedding.”
        Sally: “Well I like Bob better and it was only if *someone* had to die.”
        Everyone else: “OMG Sally what?? Yeah don’t invite her.” Boom, done.

      5. MusicWithRocksIn*

        It is very Shakespearean tragedy, because if Ted had just used his words and told people what was happening, it wouldn’t be such a mess.

    2. WellRed*

      Did they really not consider that this might happen? Also, assuming OP is female, love how coworkers just assumed they should contact her about this.

      1. KoiFeeder*

        I would like to think that they asked Ted first and were checking with OP to see if she might give them a different answer, but… probably not.

    3. AY*

      Really makes you understand why so many do not maintain close personal relationships with coworkers. I have had close friendships with former coworkers, but if something like this happened to me, I’d definitely think twice in the future!

    1. What's in a name?*

      After reading further I think the best answer is for Ted to go to therapy. It would help with his insecurity, help him to feel comfortable to tell Sally how he feels, share the information with the team and probably more stuff, since I am guessing the wedding has more drama than just this.*

      It might be that telling Sally and the group how he feels would be awkward, that is not Ted’s awkwardness, it is Sally’s to own.

      *This advise comes from someone that got married less than a month ago and has some stressful in-laws, especially when it comes to the groom’s “duties” (/rights) w.r.t. the wedding.

      1. PT*

        Ted needs to go to therapy because someone else wished he would die?

        That is victim blaming.

        Ted should promptly report this to HR, who ideally should remove Sally from his proximity, and because it is a small company, he should also start looking for a new job ASAP.

        1. Persephone Mongoose*

          What? Therapy is not a punishment and it is certainly not “victim blaming”. He deserves to process what Sally told him with a professional, who can also help address his passivity and insecurities that have made this situations worse than it needed to be.

          1. What's in a name?*

            Treating therapy as a punishment or victim blaming is a major part of the stigmatization of mental health that is all too prevalent.

            1. Falling Diphthong*

              Yeah, I do think therapy might help Ted to deal with life’s slings better going forward. (Specifically trying to choose the above-it-all no drama option, but then not being able to actually get over whatever happened and so there is still awkwardness and drama, just in a different spot.)

              1. Cambridge Comma*

                These aren’t life’s normal slings and arrows, though. Most of us don’t get our co-workers praying for our death and telling us about it. It’s ok not to handle that situation well.

          2. CBB*

            Agreed. I think Ted might find therapy empowering.

            I feel bad for Ted because I can see a younger version of myself being like him. Today I like to think I would be able to recognize Sally for what she is (bonkers and/or a bully) and let her comments roll off my back. And furthermore not feel obligated to invite any coworkers to my wedding unless they’re an actual friend.

            1. Momma Bear*

              If something in your life is holding you back – in this case his overall insecurity – he may benefit from short-term counseling. I’ve gone to therapy to deal with a bad work situation and it really helped. It doesn’t absolve Sally but it may help him deal with the fallout at work.

            2. Butterfly Counter*

              I think this is where my disconnect comes in. I’m guessing the OP, her fiance, and the team are in their 20s and I’m almost twice as old as that. I have been trying to put myself in OP’s fiance’s position and I can’t imagine taking Sally’s comments to heart. First, there is no way I’d be so enmeshed with my coworkers, so that part is foreign to me so I can’t imagine it. Second, I don’t think I could possibly internalize such a crazy confession. My reaction would probably be stunned silence before going home and telling my partner that Sally is koo-koo-bananapants and you’ll never believe what she just told me! And then we’d gossip about how much she probably wants to get into Bob’s pants and that her marriage is doomed (and that would be my own private petty revenge).

              I think this might be something that takes time and perspective, and maybe some therapy, to get over. But really, in the future this is going to make one heck of a story to tell to other (read: better) friends!

              2. pancakes*

                I don’t think age has anything to do with this. In the US we have middle-aged (and up!) politicians who talk about their deities having chosen them to run for office, and lots and lots of middle-aged (and up!) people who take them very seriously when they do.

                1. allathian*

                  Yes, no doubt. But other than that, I agree with Butterfly Counter. In my 20s I was very insecure, and had imposter syndrome, too. And at some jobs, I really wanted to be included, and any hints of my coworkers not liking me would upset me greatly, even if I tried not to show it.

                  Granted, I’m not sure how I would’ve reacted to a comment like Sally’s if I’d returned to work after a potentially fatal accident, but the older I get, the less Fs I have to give, and the less I care about whether or not my coworkers like me. Sure, I doubt anyone wants to be actively disliked, but I’m not looking for friends at work, I just want to have friendly and professional relationships with my coworkers and to avoid any workplace drama.

              3. Former Employee*

                I’d be surprised if they were still in their 20’s since the team has been working together for 10 years.

        2. RabbitRabbit*

          No, Ted needs to go to therapy because he believes that other people also see him as a “second tier” man due to one woman’s prayer for him to die instead of the “superior” Bob.

          That doesn’t mean that Sally isn’t terribly wrong, because she is.

        4. What's in a name?*

          He should go to therapy because he is feeling insecure and like a lower tier man after a serious accident that included surgery all to the point he cannot talk candidly about how someone wished him death. That isn’t victims blaming, that is recommending help to the victim.

        5. Gipsy Danger*

          Therapy isn’t a punishment. It is a tool that can help us deal with all kinds of things, like finding out a person we thought we were close to wished we would die.

        6. Homebody*

          I think the commenter is saying Ted may need to pursue therapy because of existing insecurities worsened by the situation, not the other way around.

          Totally agree that Ted should look for a new job. I have a feeling there is more drama at this workplace due to the lack of boundaries

        7. Hills to Die on*

          It’s about helping Ted to heal and see that he isn’t a bad person. Getting help when needed is not victim blaming. That’s ridiculous.

          1. Lance*

            This. There’s no blaming anyone here, least of all the victim; LW themself stated that he’s suffering from confidence issues. That’s reason enough to at least conside it, especially now when it’s liable to affect his work even more.

        8. KoiFeeder*

          No, Ted needs therapy because his response to someone being senselessly cruel to him was to think she was right.

          Now, yes, he should also go to HR and look for a new job, no arguments there. But just like I would tell someone to go to the doctor if they were physically walking around on a broken leg, he needs to go to the brain doctor because he’s doing the mental/emotional equivalent of that.

        9. Atalanta0jess*

          What? Therapy is just….healthcare. It’s to help you heal.

          Saying that is victim blaming is like saying it’s victim blaming to suggest the victim of a stabbing go to the hospital. It’s patently absurd.

          2. Washi*

            Right, it sounds like Ted’s mental health has really suffered, so he may need mental healthcare. Saying Ted could use help is not the same as saying the situation is actually his fault.

        10. quill*

          No, someone victimized Ted by letting him know that they wished for him to die, casting doubt on many of his long term relationships, hindering his emotional recovery from a serious accident, and down the line damaging his relationships with his workmates.

          The therapy is for Ted to recover from that. It’s working on one end of the problem, while “never have to work with Sally again and give the rest of the team context for why that is” is the other end. Ideally the two solutions will meet in the middle like Lady and the Tramp eating the same spaghetti.

        13. NotAnotherManager!*

          Nope. Therapy is not a sign of a defect, it’s no different than taking a NyQuil when you’re having cold symptoms. Providing appropriate mental health treatment *should* be empowering and therapeutic to victims, and the idea that therapy punishment or blame is, politely, really messed up and inappropriately shaming.

          One of my parents was a horrible person, our best guess is that they had narcissistic personality disorder. Growing up with someone like that can be very damaging, if left unchecked. They were the messed up one, but I still went to therapy to work through how their truly awful behavior affected me. Not because there was something wrong with me but because there was something wrong with THEM that I didn’t want to turn into something wrong with me.

          Should the narcissist have been in therapy? Absolutely, but it wouldn’t have helped because they didn’t think there was anything wrong with them. It’s not my fault they were a narcissist, but it sure was nice to have someone validate my feelings and give me strategies for to deal with someone whose behavior I could not control and who was not motivated to change it themselves.

        14. Owler*

          I think the comment from What’s in a name? is meant out of kindness. If Ted is so conflict adverse that he can’t tell Sally how hurtful her comments were, it’s doubtful that he will be able to go to HR. Suggesting therapy is probably a good idea, as this is probably not the only time that Ted’s wish to avoid negative situations will impact his life.

          I hope the couple can figure out a way to keep this situation from coloring their feelings about their wedding day. I was similarly conflict adverse (especially on my 20s), and it has taken longer than it should have for me to figure out how to approach negative situations head-on. I hope Ted can do better for himself than I have.

        15. Worldwalker*

          If Sally had slammed Ted’s hand in a file drawer, would it be “victim blaming” to suggest Ted should go to the doctor?

          Same difference.

        16. Beth*

          Going to therapy isn’t a punishment, and suggesting that it would be useful isn’t blaming Ted for the incident. A therapist could be a huge help as Ted faces down a really cruel incident that has had a lasting negative impact on his self-perception and confidence. I’d probably need to go to therapy too, if someone I saw as a close friend told me they prayed for my death! That’s not something most people are equipped to handle on our own!

      2. KateM*

        What jumped to my eye was “Now he’s wondering if all his team members secretly feel the way she does” plus “Now all the women on the team, including Sally, are freezing Ted out. They refuse to speak to him except when forced to”. How does Ted even stand this??

    3. Mona-Lisa Saperstein*

      That was my first thought as well. I am going to be on pins and needles until we receive this update.

    7. Lalla*

      Yes, I came to the comments (late) to emphasize the same thing. OP think about us!!!! We are in it too know, and will *need* an update!

          1. Carol the happy elf*

            You can get them in Belgium; they reminded me of Twinkie mates with Oreo, but not as sicky sweet.

            Probably online; they’re good with warm milk, the way it’s sometimes served overseas. Also good with a banana-coconut shake.
            Which is taking my mind away from this horrible train wreck.
            Ted needs to clear the air with his coworkers.
            As in “Sally told me that if Bob or I had to die in that wreck, she hoped it would be me.
            I FELT THAT SHE MIGHT FEEL GUILTY IF I INVITED HER TO A CELEBRATION OF MY HAPPINESS.”
            This must be done with everyone in the room EXCEPT Sally; and Ted must not be ashamed to shed tears.

          2. Worldwalker*

            Possibly more available: Plantain chips. They’re like potato chips, but made from plantain (a sort of starchy banana) instead of potatoes. And they are delicious.

        2. Ally McBeal*

          Well, what about banana chips? You can buy those at almost any grocery store and they’re particularly good when dipped in Nutella…

        3. LunaLena*

          I used to eat some banana-flavored puffed crackers in Korea (think puffy Cheetos, but banana-flavored instead of cheese). They’re called Banana Kick and are really tasty! If you have an H Mart or other Asian grocery store in your area, they probably have them.

      2. Elizabeth West*

        Me too; I actually put it in a book. I’ve been trying to stop saying “that’s crazy” and it’s my favorite substitution.

    2. Putting out fires, Esq*

      Yes, and just because someone is bananacrackers does not obligate you to cover up or join them in their bananacrackers-ness. I get being shocked in the moment and not know what to say in the face of Sally’s death prayer confession, but there’s no reason to keep her confidence.

      1. Where’s the Orchestra?*

        Yeah – honestly I think a conversation needs to happen with Sally where she is explicitly told your comments were unbelievably hurtful – and they are why you were not invited to the wedding. I will now on be telling everyone that you were not invited because of very hurtful comments made in the aftermath of the crash.
        Right now you are protecting Sally from the consequences of her comments – let her feel those consequences.

        1. Hannah Lee*

          I think that conversation should be had in front of the team.

          “Everyone is expressing dismay at why Sally was not on the guest list. To clear the air I’ve decided to explain it. Sally told me she prayed for my death while I was in the hospital … it was an incredibly hurtful thing to hear. And while I’ve put it behind me at work, I wasn’t comfortable with someone who wished me ill being a guest at my wedding. I’m sure you can all understand that.”

          1. Where’s the Orchestra?*

            Oh agreed – I just don’t know if I personally would have the ability/guts to actually do it.

    4. Seeking Second Childhood*

      As long as we’re moving into advice columns food metaphor territory… Sally has earned her bacon pants.

      2. Kate R*

        I’m not sure this is even the high road. Sounds more like he’s trying to avoid more conflict so it will just go away, which of course won’t work. It may be that Ted is worried if he tells the others what Sally said, they’ll agree with her since OP mentions his deep insecurity about this. But I agree, he should tell them because it provides necessary context. Also, I wonder if Ted responds to all conflict this way, and, I know this isn’t a marriage advice column, but if I were OP, I’d want to have a serious discussion with Ted about the importance of talking things through instead of having the kind of guesswork involved here. Given what OP has described about Ted here, it does sound like he’s open with her, but it would make for an exhausting marriage otherwise.

        1. Guacamole Bob*

          Yeah, Ted was put in a bad situation here, but he’s not handling it super well by trying to dodge any sort of conflict and pretending that everything is fine and they just threw darts at a board to pick someone to be left off the list when they hit the venue capacity.

        2. Le Sigh*

          The thing that drives me nuts about this is Ted didn’t want to announce what Sally did and wanted to keep it private — okay, fine. But he made the consequences incredibly public, without giving the people any context. And he’s doubling down and refusing to explain, making it worse. If someone in my friend group was deliberately excluding one of our friends for seemingly no reason, I’d be asking questions, too!

          Should he be able to invite whoever he wants? I mean, yes, but even then there are still certain social conventions and courtesies. How often do we see letters about people pointedly wanting to not invite someone’s spouse? He might not have intended to make a statement, but excluding one person from a group is going to create more attention and drama on this whole thing, especially if people don’t know that there’s a reason behind it.

          1. Cambridge Comma*

            Sally made them public. She should have realised that he was protecting her in front of her co-workers, and pretended to be busy that weekend or whatever. She’s made the drama. Again.

            2. LunaLena*

              Pretty sure she wouldn’t see it that way, though. In my experience, people like this don’t think they did anything wrong, they were just speaking their truth and no one should ever be hurt by that (and if they are, it’s their problem for being “sensitive”). Plus there are a lot of people who think confession absolves everything – see: people who cheat on their significant others and confess, then assume it means they’re forgiven. She definitely would’ve shown up at the wedding, because who wouldn’t want to go to a big fancy party that all their friends are attending?

              1. Where’s the Orchestra?*

                I think this is sadly accurate. But I said the magic words and apologized/confessed. Why is he so upset with me…..

                She probably has such a long list of things she doesn’t understand (including that comments are actions and they have consequences.

            4. Le Sigh*

              I agree, Sally *should* realize it, but she also should have never said what she said in the first place. Someone who tells you they prayed for you to die over another person — because what kind of person does that?????? holy moly — isn’t likely to realize this was her fault. She should, but she won’t. And the coworkers don’t know what’s going on, so to them, Ted made it public and they can only go off what they know. It’s not fair to Ted, but that’s the situation he found himself in — and avoiding the conflict is actually making it worse.

          2. ArtsyGirl*

            Agreed, Ted’s conflict aversion has unintentionally magnified this problem. He should have spoken to Sally privately before the invites went out to say that because of her batshit actions, she was not welcome at the wedding. That way Sally had either the choice to publicly excuse herself or if she made a deal about it, then Ted could have told the rest of the co-workers about her actions. Because he didn’t she was able to get ahead of it and play the victim.

          3. Gothic Bee*

            To be fair, getting into a major life-threatening accident, then being told your coworker and supposed friend prayed that you would die, all while planning a wedding is all a lot to handle. I don’t blame Ted for not making the best decisions here (in a situation where there were no good decisions to begin with).

            1. Redd*

              And more specifically, after my life-threatening medical crises, I spent a lot of time grappling with the fact that I might have died and wondering if I’d have been missed. I cannot imagine how overwhelming it would be to have someone volunteer the information that they’d have been relieved.

        3. quill*

          I mean, I’m sure it’s been emotionally and culturally framed for Ted as the high road. The whole “don’t hit your bullies back and keep sharing with them because you’re a bigger person, nevermind that it helps them get away with it and hurt you again” high road.

          1. Guacamole Bob*

            Yeah, but if that’s the script he was operating from he should have just invited her to the wedding.

            1. quill*

              That script breaks down IMMEDIATELY when it comes to doing emotionally significant things with the person who hurt you in attendance.

              The things you tell yourself to get through ordinary actions are often revealed to not work during unusual actions. That’s just human nature.

        4. LunaLena*

          I agree with this. I get the insecurities, but at this point, what does he have to lose? At worst, he’ll find out his worst fears are confirmed (and he already thinks they are; if they are actually confirmed he is now free to look at next steps like finding a new job), at best he’ll find that he worrying needlessly.

          1. Yup*

            +1000
            He should prepare himself that every one of them thinks and says that they agree with Sally, that Bob is a much better man, and if one of them had to die it would be him.

            If he can sit with that, and get okay with it, it gives him tremendous power in this situation. He can then speak his truth and, chances are, will discover others are on his side.

            However, I would be amazed if he actually does this. Someone this risk averse is unlikely to risk being authentic and vulnerable, even though it could make a significant difference in him overcoming his fear.

            1. STAT!*

              Agreed except … he might not have the emotional bandwidth at this time to mentally prepare himself to learn some awful truths around how people really think about him. And time is not on his side, in terms of organising the wedding reception and explaining to his co-workers the true reason Sally is not invited.

              I think there is a real possibility people will continue to identify as #Team Sally even if he tells them all what happened. Not because they really wish ill on Ted or agree with Sally. It will be because they have all become so emotionally invested in that position that they can’t intellectually and morally pull themselves out of it. Otherwise, they would have to admit to themselves they were wrong, judgmental, and cruel to a person experiencing vulnerabilities, and this will cause a cognitive conflict with their self-identification as “a good person”.

              Reckon Ted will be looking for a new job soon. Hope he finds a great one in a less emotionally fraught environment. Also hope he and the LW have a great wedding day despite all this upset. #Team Ted!!

      3. Where’s the Orchestra?*

        I don’t blame him for trying it at first, but now, yeah the high road of ignoring is past and just say that she made incredibly hurtful comments in the aftermath of the car crash and I now dont feel comfortable with Sally at the wedding.

        1. Le Sigh*

          I don’t even feel like there *is* a high road anymore. The high road could have been ignoring it and just inviting her to the wedding. It could also have been communicating to Sally that what she said was hurtful, and being willing to share that with coworkers or even HR what happened — and then the lack of invite might have at least made sense. None of that would have been fun or really fair for Ted to deal with, but this approach — keeping the reasons to himself but making the punishment public, and seemingly out of nowhere — is really just making things worse.

            1. Le Sigh*

              Well, yes and no — it sounds like she only said it to Ted, not in front of other people (unless I’m misunderstanding). So technically she didn’t make it public. But yes, she certainly *started* this whole mess — but as I said upthread, the coworkers don’t know any of that. To them, everything was fine and then Sally was excluded from the wedding out of nowhere — so to them, Ted made it public. And if Sally is the type to say something that awful to Ted, I doubt she’s made the connection. So to her, she’s the victim.

              None of this is fair to Ted, but regardless, he has a huge perception problem — the coworkers don’t know what’s wrong and think he’s being unfair, and they not surprisingly are making a stink about it (right or wrong that reaction is pretty predictable). I think a lot of this could have been avoided if he’d addressed this with Sally earlier on, but at the very least, if he wants the coworkers to stop attacking him, he’s probably going to just have to come clean about what she said.

              1. Despachito*

                He should above all realize that THE COWORKERS HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO RIGHT TO ATTACK HIM about the organization OF HIS OWN WEDDING.

                They are wayyyy out of line for doing that.

        2. serenity*

          I’d actually push back and say the “high road” isn’t ignoring any of this. And with the caveat that this workplace seems quite dysfunctional which is something Ted likely can’t control at all.

          If a close friend or co-worker that you’re very close with (whether that’s healthy or not) does something hurtful and offensive, freezing them out in public while telling no one why isn’t a “high road” in the definition of that term I would use. It’s a little immature and conflict-avoidant.

          1. Le Sigh*

            I tend to agree with this and you’ve articulated what’s bugging me. What Sally did was really awful and Ted is in a crappy position. And if Sally was just an acquaintance, I could understand pulling back without talking about it. But freezing someone out is a really harsh step — sometimes an understandable one, but I’d hope people would at least try talking to someone you consider a close friend before going down that route. And practically speaking, it’s backfiring on Ted because his coworkers (and it seems, Sally) think he’s freezing her out for seemingly no reason.

            I can be really obtuse sometimes and in high school had a good friend come over one day and end our friendship. She was just frustrated and over me. I was dumbfounded and upset at the time, but in retrospect I do appreciate that she at least explained her feelings so I wasn’t left wondering. It also gave us both space to grow, work through it, and become friends again (perhaps not possible here, but a good argument for not avoiding conflict!).

        3. Typing All The Time*

          Yes, and people might not believe what Sally told him. Sally could deny it, call him a liar and/or totally forgot what she said.

    4. OhNo*

      Exactly. Unless everyone else in the office is as… odd… as she is, they will be horrified at what she said and will completely understand why she was not invited to the wedding. Keeping that conversation under wraps helps no one but Sally. Why is Ted so keen to protect her reputation at this point anyway?

      1. Putting out fires, Esq*

        You don’t ever have to protect the person who hurt you. If she doesn’t want her reputation damaged, she shouldn’t say reputation-damaging things.

        1. Meep*

          Yeah. I used to protect someone like this. Now when she tells me my 101-degree fever is because I am ovulating or asks if I am pregnant because I take ONE sick day (she has done this four times in 4 years), I let people know exactly how horrible she is. She is willing to say these things, she can own them.

          There is a 99.9% chance Sally knew how she sounded and said it in private to hide it. There is also a 99.9% chance she said it to at least one other coworker who will back Ted up once it comes out.

          1. Putting out fires, Esq*

            Like, this is how people get away with some seriously toxic behaviors, ya know? And while it is never the recipient’s fault that the person talking to them is a (fill in the blank) jerk, it also doesn’t mean that the recipient is required to cover for them!

          2. Where’s the Orchestra?*

            Agreed – betting this isn’t the first crazy thing Sally has said – but it is probably the most hurtful. Please let the rest of the team know – betting they wouldn’t support her being this mean to Ted.

          3. Hannah Lee*

            Makes you wonder if Sally is the “missing stair” in that work group – someone toxic that people habitually accommodate and work around.

            Even Ted, though he personally and privately reached his limit with her still covered for her at the office. It wasn’t until the cost was higher than he was willing to pay ie seeing the face of someone who wished you dead on your wedding day that he pushed back in any way, and even then he still covered for her by not explaining her actions.

    5. I Wrote This in the Bathroom*

      Yes, this. Tell them. (Though I don’t know how to tell anything to a group of people that is not talking to you.)

      2. Sharkie*

        Unless I’m reading this wrong most women on the team are the ones icing him out. I have a feeling that the members of the team that are pro Ted have an idea of how Sally can be.

      3. I'm A Little Teapot*

        Oh, that’s easy, assuming they’re all in the office. Just pick a time (towards the end of the day so you don’t disrupt everything), stand up, and just announce to everyone that while you had hoped not to have to do this, their actions in freezing you out have forced you to explain why you didn’t invite Sally to the wedding. Say the one sentence of what Sally said, say the 1 sentence of that’s why you’re not inviting her. Say that you would prefer to move on and not discuss this again in future. Sit down, and ignore the drama (or leave for the day).

        Or send an email to everyone.

        It’s going to be a mess. But it’s already a mess, so you can’t really avoid a mess.

        1. BubbleTea*

          I would really not stand up in the middle of the office or send an email. Nothing says “I am actively courting drama” like making an all-staff announcement. Far better to calmly and matter of factly tell one person if and when the opportunity arises (ideally this would have happened when Alice asked why Sally wasn’t invited but it is too late to change that now), and let the news percolate through the team naturally.

          1. I'm A Little Teapot*

            Eh, maybe. But frankly, between everything that’s happened and is happening, I would uninvite the whole lot, find a new job and leave all these people in the dust. I don’t need to work with someone who wishes me dead, I don’t need to work with people who are willing to stop talking to me because of a wedding invite.

          2. quill*

            Find the Most Gossipy But Not Sally member of the team who you can trust to report accurately, seed the conversation from there.

            Er, maybe give Bob a heads up because you know who else is going to be disturbed by Sally’s comments? Bob.

            1. Hannah Lee*

              “Find the Most Gossipy But Not Sally member of the team who you can trust to report accurately…”

              Hmm, I’m thinking a Venn Diagram of those two things “Most Gossipy” and “Can be Trusted to Report Accurately” will probably not have much of an overlap.

              1. quill*

                In a very small group where nobody is literally anyone else’s grandma? Yeah, on second thought, probably not…

              2. tamarack and fireweed*

                I’d take two or three of the group for tea – a good mix of level-headed / always had an excellent work relationship with, well-regarded + one that is definitely inclined to gossip.

                It’s a shame that Ted is saddled with cleaning this up – he didn’t cause any of this, and at most was naive about how a selective wedding invitation would look like and how public it would be. I also wouldn’t have blamed Sally too much – wishing for something pretty terrible can happen if you think someone you love might be dying, and it was clearly fully irrational (that is, Ted’s and Bob’s chances of survival were entirely independent from each other!).

                The three points Ted should be getting across is a) this happened; b) it was a terrible judgement of Sally’s to unburden herself to Ted of all people; and c) Ted was quite hurt by it and so obviously didn’t think that having Sally share the celebration of private happiness was appropriate any longer.

            2. General von Klinkerhoffen*

              I mean, just as Ted didn’t need to hear it back then, Bob doesn’t need to hear it either. But I agree that if it is going to become common knowledge, Bob deserves a heads-up.

              1. quill*

                There is no way that Ted can protect himself and continue to protect Bob from knowing that this happened. So the least he can do is make sure that Bob isn’t blindsided.

                1. General von Klinkerhoffen*

                  Yes, it would need to be phrased along the lines of, “I wouldn’t have bothered you with this, but…”

            3. Where’s the Orchestra?*

              I wonder if subconsciously Ted was trying to protect Bob (and maybe Bob was still out injured/admitted to the hospital when everything went down initially). But now – stop protecting Sally, but let Bob know.

      4. NeutralJanet*

        Maybe tell the office gossip and assume that it will proliferate from there? And then be ready to explain exactly what happened if anyone comes with questions.

    6. Agitated Gopher*

      My thoughts went to “Sally, why don’t you tell the group what you told me about when I was in the hospital?”

      Probably a bit too vindictive to be actually helpful, but would be pretty satisfying.

      2. Arts Akimbo*

        I would 100% do this. I don’t think it’s vindictive at all, I think it’s justified. Right now, Sally is banking on his silence so she can be cruel and not look bad. Ted has done absolutely nothing wrong, and telling others what she said to him would likewise not be wrong.

        1. Where’s the Orchestra?*

          But this assumes two things:
          1) that Sally will admit in front of the group what she said
          2) that she understands at all why her comments were hurtful

          I’m not hopeful on either front.

      3. Cosmerenaut*

        This is exactly what needs to happen. In this situation I’d probably also ask for all the coworkers having a snit to please return their invites so they can go to people who deserve them more. Because after all, if only one person can go to the wedding, Sally will pray that it goes to the classiest person in the room.

      4. quill*

        Smaller scale, but I made a project partner stand up on presentation day and admit they’d done none of the work… I think it only worked because I was guaranteed to not be in the same class as them in three weeks!

        It would probably not work with Sally given the bias the rest of the office has by now towards what they were first told about the situation, i.e. that Ted has been cold to Sally and pointedly not invited her to his wedding.

    7. turquoisecow*

      Agreed. I don’t know why Sally felt the need to tell Ted, but since she did, he’s not obligated to keep it a secret. Other people should know this.

      1. Ins mom*

        Why not call it what it is? Sally told me she prayed I’d die… I can’t get over it , neither can my fiancée! What’s hard to understand about that?

    9. Use your words*

      Ted should call a meeting with the entire team including sally and say, “I didn’t want to cause problems so I didn’t tell anyone sooner. I see now that I should’ve spoken about this before sending the invites. When bob and I were in the accident, Sally told me she prayed if one of us had to die, it would be me, because she likes Bob more. When she could’ve just prayed for both of us to live, imagine that. Or kept her cruel prayers about my life being worth less than Bob’s to herself instead of saddling me with those painful words. In light of that, I don’t feel close to Sally anymore but hoped I wouldn’t have to tell all of you because the whole situation makes me feel uncomfortable and I didn’t want to drag you into it. Now you know. Come to my wedding or don’t.” Also he should find a new job. These people suck.

      2. Empress Matilda*

        Yeah, this is almost the only way out of it at this point. Short meeting, stick to the facts, do not take questions from the press. No doubt this will cause even more drama, and people will continue to take sides, but at least now they’ll have all the information. Then Ted and OP can GTFO of all this, and enjoy their wedding in peace.

      6. Starbuck*

        Yes. I’d only add “of course, I thought it would be obvious to Sally why she wasn’t invited, so I’m surprised that she seems to be confused about it” or something like that.

      7. Nope*

        Except I suspect there is 0% chance that Sally will go along with this. She is far more likely to deny ever having said that, say he misunderstood her, and then say how hurt she is. She will play the victim, and make things far worse for him if he does a group announcement.

      8. LouAnn*

        Ted could Find a way to be alone with a sympathetic and gossipy coworker, and shake, or look like he’s about to cry, and so on. That way, if he does those things out of nerves, it won’t be as bad, because it will be part of his act. Coworker will ask if he’s OK, or he can say he is sorry he can’t concentrate on work or whatever because of the Sally situation. So sad that she misinterpreted why he didn’t invite her. He only did it because she wished him dead, and so on, as other posters have suggested. This scenario may make it easier for Ted. Or the OP could show up at the office for a little talk with everyone.

    10. Pumpkin215*

      Absolutely. Cowboy-up, Ted.

      I can’t imagine having a so-called-friend/coworker say this. But my reaction would have been equally horrifying. I’d tell EVERYONE what she said.

      Put out a billboard on the route to work. Spell it out on a cake. Spackle mirrors and walls with post-its. Get a stick-on tattoo.

      This is not a hide it under the rug situation. Spill those beans in an epic way and report back please.

    11. kittymommy*

      Yep. I mean, what the what ever loving f*** is wrong with Sally???? And now this little twit has the audacity to be ticked off about the wedding invitation? Are you freaking kidding me?

      I would tell EVERYONE why Sally didn’t get an invite. Hell, I may have it printed on the damn program (okay probably not but I would think about about for a sec).

    12. logicbutton*

      I wonder if Ted hasn’t told them because he worries that if he did, some of them might side with him but others still might not, and he would rather have everyone mad at him for the wrong reason (because then he can just reassure himself that they’re wrong) than have only some of them mad at him for the “right” reason (because maybe then his fears about being a “second tier” man are well founded). But he’s gotta tell them! Right now they’re bewildered by seeing their formerly close-knit office falling apart when they don’t even know why.

    13. Be kind, rewind*

      Yup. Tell them. But talk to Sally first. She needs to hear from you how hurtful and unacceptable what she said was.

      1. Hannah Lee*

        I’d entirely skip that step.

        Sally has shown herself to be someone who is not reasonable about other people’s feelings or well-particularly Ted’s. Saying “your words made me feel bad” probably won’t make much difference to someone who already wished you dead.

      2. AKchic*

        Sally has earned no private talk. She lost all consideration and heartfelt talking when she said what she said.

        Private talks give her power. Take any modicum of power she could ever hope to have away by refusing to discuss anything with her privately.

        1. Be kind, rewind*

          It’s not about what Sally has “earned”; it’s about Ted establishing that this is NOT OK. Coworker relationships 101: if someone has offended you, tell them directly.

      3. Starbuck*

        Nah, if anyone should be spoken to first, it’s the manager, so that they have the context they need to deal with it when the rest of this mess unravels.

      4. Cthulhu’s Librarian*

        Do not talk to Sally, Ted. She is an atavistic skid mark of a human being who has, by her own actions, revoked any consideration you might have owed her, and you’ll only give her a chance to get out in front of the consequences of those actions.

      5. Beth*

        I really wouldn’t suggest that. It’s so obvious that a comment like this is hurtful and unacceptable! If she hasn’t realized that by adulthood, that’s on her; Ted doesn’t need to set aside time and energy a special interaction (and one that’s likely to be painful for him, at that) to tell her something that any kindergartener would know.

    14. ShakenNotStirred*

      That seems like it would have been the best course of action from the beginning. That would have caused its own drama, but what the heck else are you supposed to do with the fact that a coworker told you that your life has less value than your other coworker? What was Sally expecting to happen? What is wrong with Sally is the real question I want to be answered.

    15. MistOrMister*

      Right! What point does keeping this secret serve? I get not saying anything from the beginning, although I’m not sure I would have kept that quiet from a group of supposed good friends. But once it starts causing dissension in the group it makes no sense to keep it secret. Also what the heck is up with Sally acting like she doesn’t know why she wasn’t invited??? I guess maybe someone who is so clueless as to say they prayed for someone’s death could be stupid enough to not realize that person wouldn’t want to be around them going forward but wow….that takes some serious lack of awareness.

    16. HiHello12345*

      Totally agree. I think the workers who have turned on him deserve his explanation, and Sally does not deserve to get off scot free.

    17. AngelicGamer, the Visually Impaired Peep*

      I know we are very do not do things for your spouse in their place of business here, but I would have TOLD the co-worker who called me exactly why Sally wasn’t invited. I would be matter of fact about it but I would say it.

    18. RVA Cat*

      This. The “death prayer confession” was blatant bullying and harassment. Ted needs to report this. Someone like Sally doesn’t just do this once. It sounds like she is running a Mean Girl clique, and Ted’s employer needs to kick her out the door and shut this down.

    19. NotAnotherManager!*

      100%. I really do get not saying anything about the batshit comment she made in the interest of not stirring up drama and feeding the crazy, but, when SALLY starts creating drama and blaming Ted for it, that’s a great time to be very confused that Sally’s surprised by the lack of invitation and saying loudly in a common area, “Well, Sally, you told me you prayed for my death, so I had no idea you’d want to attend my wedding when your prayers weren’t answered.” and then let that one hang.

      The key is to be surprised/confused when people ask why Sally’s not invited – of course, after telling Ted she prayed for his death she’s not invited, why would she be?

    20. Boo Radley*

      Honestly, this was my instinct. No heat, no anger just say, “Oh we didn’t invite Sally because when I returned to the office she told me she prayed that I would die.” I mean it’s such an outrageously inappropriate and callous thing to say there’s no reason to expect him to be close to Sally anymore.

    21. Beth*

      Yeah, I think that’s the only way out at this point. It doesn’t have to be a Big Dramatic Reveal–or, it probably will be dramatic, both because it’s an awful thing to say and because this group seems prone to drama, but Ted doesn’t have to be the one being dramatic about it. If he says something like, “Sally made a really painful comment in the wake of the car accident a few months ago. She told me that she prayed that if God had to let one of us die, she hoped it would be me. I don’t want to make a big deal of it, and I’m trying not to let it impact our work relationship, but I can’t deny it’s impacted our friendship. I’m not comfortable having her at my wedding as a result,” I can’t imagine anyone would argue with that.

  7. Nia*

    If a coworker ever tells me they prayed for my death I’m going straight to by boss and telling him its either them or me, but one of us will not be working here in the morning.

    1. What's in a name?*

      She didn’t pray for his death. She just offered him as a sacrifice to save Bob, if there was to be a death.

        1. Venus*

          Not better at all especially given all the added context, but best to remain factual to what Sally said so that she can’t try to reduce the impact on her when others are told. You don’t want her to be able to say “That’s not what I said!”

        2. Rachel in NYC*

          It would have been better if she presented him as an offering in some sort of sacrificial ceremeony.

          Hmmm…maybe there was a ceremony, she used a picture and it just didn’t work? alas we maybe never know…

        3. TechWorker*

          No, definitely, Sally is an oddball. But it’s not the same sentiment… if the love of your life and someone you knew less well were both in intensive care, it’s not unreasonable to be praying more for one than for the other. But you don’t need to a) tell anyone that or b) tell THE OTHER PERSON that wtf. I’m with OP that this is a weird reaction to Sally realising she has strong feelings for the other guy…

          1. Jenn.*

            She didn’t just pray for one person more than the other, or prayed for one and ignored the other all together. She actively prayed for one to die, like prayers are a zero sum game or something.

            1. tamarack and fireweed*

              Well, yeah, but when I read that title I imagined something more vicious and vindictive. People can go a little loopy when they’re there consumed with fear a loved one might die. There is a context to “Dear $DEITY, if you need to take one of them, please don’t let it be Bob. Take Ted instead”.

              The real problem isn’t that she did this. The real problem is that afterwards she a) didn’t recognize it as craziness born out of naked fear, but instead rationalized it, as if it was ok to idly (once both were ok) think about which of two coworkers is more worthy of saving and b) went to f*cking Ted to unburden herself instead of talking it through with a therapist.

          2. Simply the best*

            Praying more for one than the other is not the same thing as actively praying for one to die over the other.

                1. Working Hypothesis*

                  But neither of those concepts is the one that’s been used to defend her: “she was only praying more for one than the other.”

                  No. She wasn’t. Praying more for one person than the other is saying “Dear Lord, please save Bob. I mean, please save both of them of course! Please save Bob and Ted. Please save Bob and Ted. But oh, please save Bob, save Bob, save Bob.”

                  That is not what happened. “If somebody needs to die, please let it be Ted,” is an explicit statement that Ted is actually someone you’re comfortable with packing off to die, as distinguished from simply not paying as much attention to your desire that he live as you are paying to your desire that Bob live.

                  Frankly, no matter what she actually prayed, it should have stayed firmly in her own head (or between her and her deity), in which case it would have been firmly her own business. Nobody has the right to interfere with our judge someone else’s prayers SO LONG AS THOSE PRAYERS ARE NOT INFLICTED ON YOU. When Sally took the totally bizarre step of going to Ted and telling him what she prayed about, she lost the right not to have her prayers judged — because what she’s really being judged on is not what she said to her god, but what she said to Ted. And what she said to Ted was offensive and outrageous.

              2. Gerry Keay*

                I am legitimately terrified by the amount of people defending this by saying “well she didn’t really pray for him to die, she only prayed for him to die instead of someone else!!” Y’all need help.

          3. Librarian of SHIELD*

            It’s not weird to pray more strongly for the person you’re closer to. But it’s SUPER weird to pray that if anybody has to die from this accident it should be the person you like less. I can’t think of a scenario where that would even occur to me.

            1. TechWorker*

              Whilst I agree (well, I don’t pray, so neither would occur to me), it can’t be *uncommon* for people who’ve lost someone in dreadful accident in which someone else survived to have the (guilty, private) thought of ‘I wish the other person died instead’. It comes from a place of ‘if someone had to die, why did it have to be the person I love’. Sally has taken this 10 steps further over the unacceptable line by thinking this in a situation where no-one ‘had’ to die or did infact die, and then telling the guy.

              1. pancakes*

                What does it matter whether it’s uncommon? It is senselessly weird and brutal mathematics to think that if two or more people are in an accident together, one of them “has to” die.

        4. CG*

          She didn’t pray for his death generally! She prayed for his death specifically if needed to save her favorite coworker!

          2. Working Hypothesis*

            … And then she went and told him, not only that she had prayed for him to be the sacrifice to save Bob if one were needed, but that she’d done it because Bob was sooooo much better a person than he was and he could obviously never measure up.

            This is absolutely loonytunes, and it’s offensive and cruel totally independent from the actual content of her prayer.

      2. Charlotte Lucas*

        Which is even weirder. That’s not how accidents work. Unless you’re in a cheesy “inspirational” movie. The “Christian” kind with a basic misunderstanding of basic principles of the religion.

        1. Portia*

          I doubt very much you can find a Christian movie where it is presented as good or acceptable for someone to pray for another person’s death.

          1. Charlotte Lucas*

            No, but I did see one once where a kid who didn’t pray hard enough ended up with a broken home & all kinds of terrible things happening. I think his little sister ended up either dying or addicted to drugs. It was one of the most bizarre late-night movies I’ve ever seen. And I watched the whole thing, like a slow motion train wreck.

            It was aimed at teens, and I can’t imagine creating something that twisted for kids.

            1. Ally McBeal*

              Yeah, evangelical-Christian media can be really grim and inappropriate. On the other hand, we also got VeggieTales…

              1. Bean Counter Extraordinaire*

                I mean…VeggieTales did provide everyone with a song to sing while looking for their brush….

            2. Hannah Lee*

              There was a nun who taught religious education for kids in my parish. A girl in our class had been in a serious accident and been disabled as a result. The nun explained that God must love the girl very much and that she must be incredibly worthy in His eyes to have been disabled that way. And then went on to tell us that WE SHOULD ALL PRAY that WE could be so worthy have have something horrible happen TO US TOO, because it would me that we had truly earned God’s love.

              Even we fourth graders knew that was a perverse and horrible, evil thing to say to children.
              Some people who think the are “Spreading the Gospel” really should take a few moments to try to understand the key take-aways from that gospel first.

          2. Your Local Password Resetter*

            Oh, I’m pretty sure there are a couple of those around. There are some really screwed up fringe groups under the Christian umbrella.

          3. generic_username*

            You do see a lot with the bargaining for your own life though. Like, “please God take me instead, just let him/her live!” Apparently Sally was following that principle, but wasn’t feel self-sacrificing, lol

            1. NotAnotherManager!*

              Yeah, when I was a kid and my beloved grandma was dying, I totally offered up the other really mean one as an alternative for God. (I mean, he didn’t take me up on it, and the offered one lived to nearly 100 because she was too mean to die, but I bargained.) The difference is that (1) I was a kid and (2) I did not TELL MeanMa that I’d rather Grandma live than her.

          4. Loredena Frisealach*

            Maybe, but the first and only campus crusade for christ session I attended in college had the group praying for sudden openings on the supreme court so…

            2. Hannah Lee*

              Oh, that makes sense … I’m certain “Those infidels must die to free up a government office chair for someone I like better” is straight from the Red Letter Text version of The Gospel according to Luke. /s

            3. generic_username*

              Ughhhh, my sister became enmeshed with that group in college. They’re basically a cult. Took years for her to be normal again and she STILL doesn’t see the issues we had with them. I don’t think the chapter on our campus did anything as abhorrent as praying for the death of a person, but I did get roped into attending a session where someone shared their personal story of “praying the gay away.” It really stuck with me – I didn’t keep up with him, but I hope he’s found his way to self-acceptance and peace.

              1. Loredena Frisealach*

                I’d belonged to it in HS and it was more of a social club than anything. I was pretty shell shocked by the time I left that meeting. The entire agenda was really something.

        2. Paulina*

          Yes, Sally’s “prayer” was some strange bargaining about people that she wasn’t even that close to. Surely if there was bargaining with a divinity to be done on Bob and Ted’s behalf, their close family or themselves would be the ones who would have to do it.

          I mean… the whole thing is bizarre, and no that’s not how it works. But even in fantasy where such bargains are possible, Sally was being extremely self-centered in thinking that it was remotely her call what deal was to be made. Ted, engaged to LW, can’t have his life traded in by a mere coworker. Sally should only pray to sacrifice herself.

        3. ThatGirl*

          Yeah, this isn’t a “one person has to die” situation, life doesn’t work that way and Christianity DEFINITELY doesn’t work that way.

          1. Gracely*

            Well, I mean, technically, Christianity kind of hinges on “one person has to die” just…not you know…someone who *isn’t* Jesus.

            (and if Bob is such a saint, then really he should be making the sacrifice, not LW; that’s kinda how sainthood works, right?)

          2. pancakes*

            I don’t think that’s definite at all. There doesn’t seem to be anything at all that stops it from working that way. It’s not as if Sally’s prayers or broader theology are gong to be audited by an inspector.

            1. ThatGirl*

              Let me put it this way: there is nothing in any mainstream Christian theology that would state that when two people have sustained serious injury, you should pray for one of them to die so the other can live. Nothing is stopping Sally from praying that way, but it’s not something any church I’ve ever heard of would encourage. Prayer doesn’t work that way and medicine certainly doesn’t.*

              *The only thing I can think of that works even remotely close to that way is organ transplants, where most of the time people on the transplant list are unfortunately waiting for someone else’s tragedy. But that wasn’t a thing here.

              1. pancakes*

                It doesn’t seem like a huge departure from prosperity gospel to me, and that’s very, very popular in the US – the idea that the best or most appealing deity to address is one who wants some people to be fabulously wealthy, and is fine with others suffering because they haven’t made a display of asking, or haven’t made the right display.

        4. BluntBunny*

          The film I’m thinking of is final destination but isn’t inspirational lol. In the second film there is a car accident and the basic principle of the film is a life for a life.

      3. Lance*

        But she basically did. In the first place, why would she pray for an eventuality of ‘one person’s probably going to die’, rather than just pray for both of them to come out well?

      4. Artemesia*

        what she prayed is irrelevant — it isn’t as if we have any evidence prayer has any meaning whatsoever beyond the person doing it. WHAT SHE SAID is the point. She can pray all she wants that Ted dies — SAYING it was inexcusable and saying it to Ted beyond inexcusable. She needs to be outed.

        1. Gracely*

          Seriously. It’s one thing to pray for something like that, it’s a WHOLE OTHER THING to actually tell the person. Like, you’re supposed to be ashamed of praying something like that, not proud of it. If you *must* confess your horribleness to someone, find a priest or reverend or someone who isn’t the person you preferred to die. Telling them just compounds the awful.

          1. turquoisecow*

            Yeah if anything I could see her going to Bob and saying oh I prayed for you to live, and not mentioning Ted. That would be at least socially acceptable, although perhaps uncomfortable for Bob especially if he isn’t religious. But to go to Ted and say I didn’t pray for you is just vindictive. There’s no way Ted looks at that and says “thanks.”

        2. allathian*

          Yeah, absolutely. Sally sounds like a horrible person, and I really hope Ted finds the confidence to look for and find another job soon.

      5. NeutralJanet*

        Sure, I suppose that’s a slight difference, but like…first of all, that’s not how prayer works, and second of all, why did she have to tell him?

        1. quill*

          She felt guilty, so she confessed. She figures since she confessed it’s forgiven, because that’s all you need to do to gain the lord’s forgiveness.

          Nevermind that the confession seriously hurt Ted.

          1. MistOrMister*

            Except it doesn’t seem like she felt guilty at all. The way the letter reads, she just randomly told Ted for reasons. It almost seems like she did it on purpose to be cruel because I can’t think of any other reason for bringing that up, ever.

            1. quill*

              I mean, I’m probably ascribing guilt because it makes the most sense out of this entire WTFBBQ situation. But there’s many shallownesses to guilt – from “I really shouldn’t have another brownie, tee hee,” to “for a minute I doubted that I’d done the right thing, so I confessed to you and then rationalized at you that I’d been right all along, now I feel better!”

              1. turquoisecow*

                And Ted didn’t tell her it was wrong so therefore she has no idea that he was hurt or that she didn’t explain herself well.

    2. sofar*

      I’d report to my manager and HR. I know that small companies can be kind of nutty about these things. But, if this happened, I’d run this up the chain like, “I’m sure you’d want to know that one of your employees is saying this stuff. I’ve been here a while, and I’m willing to continue to work professionally with Sally. But I’d hate to think what her lack of discretion could lead her to say to a client or new employee. So I wanted you to be aware.”

      Then, when other employees are like, “But why isn’t Sally invited?” I’d have a script of, “Oh well Sally said something disturbing to me after the car accident [fill in basic details]. I had to report it to HR. So, we thought it best not to include her in our wedding.”

      And then, if the other employees decide to cause drama, at least HR/the company has a paper trail and context, so you’re not coming to them with a whole mess of drama months after the fact that they have to untangle.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        This is a good point and a good script, since the whole thing is affecting the work. The manager needs to know about it in any case.

      2. Recruited Recruiter*

        As an HR Professional – Yes, please tell me before there becomes a mess of drama I have to untangle just to figure out who the psycho is.

  8. Pool Lounger*

    I get why he didn’t, but if my coworker/friend told me she’d prayed that I would die (she could have just prayed that neither of them would die!) I would have immediately told my best friend/coworker, at least. That’s too weird and painful a thing to keep inside, and not communicating also leads to weirdness like this whole situation. I wonder if Sally will lie about it at this point. This reminds me of a novel or movie where I’m yelling at the characters, Just talk to each othet already! I hope your husband can either clear this all up or get out of this “like a dysfunctional family” workplace.

    1. Eldritch Office Worker*

      I know. Clearly this has been REALLY affecting Ted, I can’t believe he didn’t tell anyone in his “close” friend group at work why. I applaud the restraint but I couldn’t keep that to myself and see her every day.

      1. S*

        I mean, it sounds like he’s afraid the rest of the group will nod and think to themselves, “Well, obviously we’d all prefer Ted die if it was between him and Bob.” It may not be rational, but I can see why he’s kept it to himself if he’s worried about that.

        2. Putting out fires, Esq*

          Yeah, I get that, but my message to the Teds of the world is this: what happens if they do nod to themselves and agree? You’re already suffering from worrying that they hate uou, and they’re already not talking to you. If they do turn out to hate you, how has your life changed?

          1. KoiFeeder*

            As someone with Ted-style brain weasels myself, I wouldn’t bring this up to the rest of the group because if the worst case scenario is true and they do already hate me, then it’s just going to be unpleasant to bring it up.

            Except, presumably unlike Ted, I have a therapist so when I go “Sally said she prayed for me to die instead of Bob” the therapist goes “Wow. That is bananacrackers, and it’s even more bananacrackers that she would casually discuss that with you as if it wouldn’t impact you.”

            (Also, I have issues relevant to death and people wishing my death, so if I heard someone say that to me I would be looking for a new job because I would never be able to look at Sally again without panic attacks)

            1. Putting out fires, Esq*

              Therapist for Ted is definitely in order, especially if this is a long-term issue. It’s Sally’s fault, but someone without the anxiety weasel treadmill would have nipped it in the bud earlier. Sally created the problem, and Ted’s insecurity snowballed it. He needs someone he can bounce this stuff off who feels like a neutral party (presumably his weasels discount whatever OP has told him.)

            2. quill*

              Yeah it’s poking the territory of previous death threats directed at me, I’d probably be handling it way worse than Ted. Like, panic attacks or shrieking bad.

              1. KoiFeeder*

                Oh, agreed. I would’ve had a full on fight reaction and a panic attack, potentially even simultaneously. The fact that Ted can work with this woman and not actively hate her or try to avoid her at all costs is incredible to me (maybe even a qualifier for sainthood?).

                1. quill*

                  Yeah, the more I think about it the more I want to stab Sally with a fork.

                  Ted needs out of this place, a therapist, and not to have any of these folks at his wedding.

                2. Kal*

                  As someone with what sounds like similar brain weasels to Ted, I don’t think we should really count this as handling it well.

                  Your reaction to something like this is to panic and possibly fight to defend yourself, even if that specific reaction is overblown for the situation. My and Ted’s type of reaction is to panic and hide all signs of any distress possible, to the point of sometimes even offering yourself up as a punching bag instead of doing anything to protect yourself. When you think that you might actually deserve what happened, its easy to dismiss your feelings as wrong and the other person isn’t actually a bad person so why would you do anything that could hurt them/their career/their social network. So of course you will just quietly try to hide those feelings and outwardly do your best to pretend that everything is fine, because that’s what you feel like you need to do to survive, just like how when you automatically default to fight its because your brain is telling you that’s what you have to do to survive.

                  Neither is a more healthy or positive reaction than the other, and these brain weasels have plenty of tricks to prevent you from seeking the help you need to manage it. Its like a cat that hides its pain until its so sick that treatment is quite serious, instead of showing it sooner when it would be a lot easier to treat.

                  If nothing else, I hope this whole thing can help prove to Ted that he’s not the wrong one here and he does deserve help, and that LW can support him in seeking and accessing that help.

          2. Cataclysm*

            Confirmation. Fearing they hate me is one thing. Finding out that my worst fears are in fact true is another.
            Sometimes, it feels like the only way you can withstand something is the possibility of doubt. Any hope you might have dies in the face of confirmation. As long as they never say it out loud

            1. bookworm*

              This also kind of explains his approach to the invites. Not inviting Sally + inviting rest of team + not telling them what Sally did = team members mad, dislike Ted, side with Sally. There is something perversely satisfying about self sabotaging and proving the brainweasels right, but as a result of something you control rather than something out of your control. A frequent topic with my own therapist!

              1. Solitary squirrel*

                Yeah, I’ve been there. Secretly fear that my colleagues think I’m flaky and disorganised? I obviously can’t prove I’m not (my brain says) so I might as well lean into that…

                It’s a very stupid brain game, but strangely hard to shake. There’s also “They don’t really want to spend time with me, so I will make myself scarce and not reach out to them.”

          3. Cold Fish*

            I know I’m late to the party, but… I think the LW should reach out to Alice and any of the other women refusing to come until Sally gets an invite with a quick “I was under the impression it was only Sally who prayed Ted would die in the car accident several months ago. As it appears you are also harboring ill will toward Ted, could you please return your invite. I only wish true friends at my wedding.” It may not be the most professional but a wedding is a personal event (not a work event).

            I would encourage Ted to bring up the incident to Boss & Bob at the very least. I think Ted would be pleasantly surprised by the outcome should Sally’s words surface but you can’t reason with someone else’s anxiety. It just doesn’t work that way.

            1. Working Hypothesis*

              There’s certainly a visceral sense of satisfaction in doing something like this, but it’s not the most useful approach if what Ted wants is these people’s friendship back.

              At most, I might go to them and ask in a puzzled tone, “I was under the impression that only Sally was praying for Ted’s death. That’s what she said. Are you ill-wishing him too, now?” And then in probable shocked silence to follow, added, “Did you not know? We didn’t feel that we could invite her after she went out of her way to tell Ted that she had prayed for his death while he was recovering from the accident. He’s been absolutely devastated since then — he had thought he had friends here.”

              Attacking them is only going to make them dig their heels in. Guilting them while getting across what actually happened in the process may get somewhere.

              (And yeah, personally I’m not convinced that any of these people are worth keeping. There’s an awful lot of dysfunction here, both as a workplace and as a friend group. But it’s what Ted wants that counts, not what I do.)

        3. jm*

          i really relate to lw’s husband. that kind of thing would have me spiraling as well and i would not have the capacity to deal with it directly either.

          1. Hannah Lee*

            Especially when you consider he’s recently been hospitalized with serious injuries following a traumatic car accident. AND has been out of work for a while, which as anyone with even the *tiniest* bit of imposter syndrome will tell you, can make you really insecure about whether you deserve to have your job and whether you’re capable of doing it.

            (Years ago, I’d get pangs of that just after a long weekend, and have serious self-doubts after an actual 1 week vacation. Being out for weeks, months after being physically injured, hospitalized, medicated, not quite myself would have been really difficult until I got my sea legs again.)

          2. Gerry Keay*

            Yup, the combo of confirming all my worst fears about myself (or at least it feeling that way) + my deep fear of conflict would absolutely have me in a similar paralysis.

        4. irene adler*

          Learning this about Sally would make me (a co-worker) wonder what Sally thinks of me. That would be my first thought. I would not automatically concur with Sally’s sentiments.

          Quite frankly, it would disturb me greatly that someone I work with would have such thoughts.

          We had a situation where a certain manager was badly injured in bad car wreck where a death occurred. Despite some not liking this manager all that much, not one person expressed any sort of wish that he was the one that died in the accident. All were relieved he survived.

          1. Where’s the Orchestra?*

            At the bare minimum I would be wondering really hard about her judgement that she thought it was okay to say this out loud and that it wouldn’t change how the person I told this to thought of me.

      2. ObscureRelic*

        I suspect he was so shocked at the moment, and then hurt, and then plagued with doubts about the feelings of the rest of the team that he just shut down emotionally. No one wants to reveal their vulnerability or the fact that someone was able to hurt them like that. I’m tempted to say “especially men”, but I can see myself (she/her) reacting like that, too.

        This is going to be hard, since the original awful incident is in the past, although the pain isn’t. I agree with him sitting down with Sally and just laying it out. If she possesses the smallest amount of grace, she will acknowledge it and apologize. If she gaslights him, he’s going to have to lay it out for the entire team, with LW supporting him. I can’t imagine Sally and SO being invited to the wedding, but if that’s the way it has to happen to keep the workplace functional, enlist a trusted friend to keep an eye on her (so that it doesn’t appear they are being frozen out) while the bride and groom essentially ignore them as much as possible.

        Jeez, this is painful.

      3. Use your words*

        I *don’t* applaud his restraint. Ted isn’t the bad guy here but his need to protect Sally has made him into the bad guy. This is dumb!

        1. pancakes*

          Or his fear, or anxiety. Keeping quiet about seriously upsetting behavior isn’t necessarily applause-worthy, and I definitely don’t think it is here.

          1. allathian*

            Yeah. I agree with you. I can understand, sort of, why Ted would react the way he has. But mainly I feel sorry for him, because his anxiety and lack of confidence have enabled Sally to walk all over him. It also seems like Sally holds the rest of the office in some sort of thrall, or else the other women wouldn’t have started giving Ted the cold shoulder.

      4. That weird moody one*

        Having worked with people like this, of course she’s going to lie about having said this. But it’s too weird and off-topic for him to make up.

    2. Typing All The Time*

      I can imagine him being shocked in that moment. Maybe he could say that Sally told you a remark that you thought was insulting and out of line and that it changed your views of her as a person and a friend. And that the fact you could have died in/from the accident, puts your feelings in perspective and that you wouldn’t want her there on one of the most important days of your lives.

  9. Justin*

    What in the absolute watermelon.

    Who prays for someone’s death and then tells them!?!?!?1

    Poor Ted, who survived only to deal with this nonsense. I hope he gets all the support he could possibly receive.

    1. Justice*

      And not only that, but she then tried to get the person whose death she prayed for to agree that the other person is just better than him!
      I gotta say, if these are the kind of things that come out of her mouth, I’m not surprised she’s had marital problems. How does someone who says things like this function in the world?

  10. SometimesALurker*

    I happened to click over to the site right at 11:00, so when I finished reading this post there were still 0 comments. I am not sure I’d ever seen that and for a quick second thought that everyone was just too stunned to comment, which would have been a first, but perhaps merited!

      1. CreepyPaper*

        I read this entire thing with my mouth open. I… what in the hecking boiled potatoes is going on? This has stunned me into silence. I have no other useful comment.

    2. Detective Amy Santiago*

      I took a sip of my tea just as I clicked on the site. Read the headline and almost spit it out all over my computer.

  11. Ask a Manager* Post author

    I wanted to add this into the post but it didn’t seem to fit and wasn’t the main point, but I’ll put it here:

    Letter writer, regardless of what happens with the rest of it, please nudge Ted to move past how much he’s been dwelling on Sally’s comment. There’s no reason to wonder if everyone else secretly feels like she does, or to worry he’s a “second tier” man (whatever that is!). Point out to Ted that by saying what she did, Sally demonstrated that her opinion counts for nothing — because a decent person with good judgment would not have said what she said (assuming no excuse like being drunk out of her mind or high on painkillers or so forth). Assuming nothing like that, the fact that she thought that was an okay thing to say is the exact thing that should tell him she’s not someone whose opinion should carry any weight with him.

    1. Pikachu*

      >> the fact that she thought that was an okay thing to say is the exact thing that should tell him she’s not someone whose opinion should carry any weight

      I needed to read this sentence today for so many reasons. You are the best, Alison!

      1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

        She has terrible judgement clearly.
        She thinks a saint because he gives her marriage advice and loans her money.
        Yeah, that is not the thought process of someone I’d worry about.

        1. Threeve*

          And Ted could think of it this way: if what Sally said doesn’t raise his opinion of Bob (and why tf would it?) it should have just as little impact on his confidence in himself.

          1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

            This is brilliant. Simply brilliant.
            How Ted heard “Bob provides emotional and financial support to me that I feel I can’t live without” and think anything other than Sallie is immature and inappropriate is amazing.

          1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

            Yup. I don’t even think it’s about having a physical or platonic relationship with Bob. It’s about having someone who provides her with whatever she feels she needs at the moment, money or attention.

      2. Charlotte Lucas*

        Yes, you can’t let the Sallys of the world get to you. I remember when a co-worker was really yelled at for not doing something that she hadn’t even asked for. This was in front of some outside vendors. The CW told me she was embarrassed. I pointed out that it was the manager who has behaved in an embarrassing way.

    2. Meh*

      Was Sally involved in the accident too? Otherwise her being high seems unlikely. Maybe she’s just an awful person.

    3. Elizabeth*

      I would also urge Ted to get some therapy. He was in an accident that caused injuries severe enough to require surgery. He probably has some level of emotional trauma from that. Sally’s stupidity only compounded that. His pre-existing lack of confidence has complicated that. He needs help to unravel all of the contributing factors.

        1. Use your words*

          The person who said that to you clearly isn’t in therapy and should try it sometime. It’s life enhancing, not punishment.

          1. Spencer Hastings*

            I think some people have a knee-jerk reaction to this because they’ve had their feelings or arguments dismissed or invalidated — as a deliberate insult or not— with a suggestion that they get therapy. (The implication being that it’s not reasonable to feel a certain way or follow a certain logic, but rather that they need to change themselves.)

            1. aebhel*

              Yeah, in certain corners of the internet (and off it), ‘go to therapy’ is not even slightly intended as kindly advice.

        2. Sparkles McFadden*

          I thought your therapy suggestion was good advice because it’s something that would be helpful for Ted.

          I actually think Ted should say “Hey, well, after the accident Sally told me she prayed that I should be the one to die because I’m not a good person” but it doesn’t sound like something Ted would do. He may very well be afraid that everyone else would say “Oh yeah, I can see that because Bob is a great guy.”

          Ted is insecure enough to take Sally’s hurtful (and insane) comment as a reflection on how his coworkers think of him. He’s actually comparing himself to Bob and questioning his own self-worth. He already suffered the trauma of the accident and had Sally’s nonsense on top of it, so therapy could only help.

        4. quill*

          I don’t think that person is feeling much like replying to the people who pointed out that “get therapy after physical and emotional trauma” is lay medical advice, not a dismissive “act normally!”

          Given that there’s at least fifteen of us and one of them.

      2. FYI*

        He also needs to get therapy to learn how to use his words. Everyone will claim that I am victim-blaming, but Ted compounded this problem, a lot, by not speaking up. Inviting everyone except her? And not saying anything at all about WHY? (Hint: everyone knows it’s not because of the size of the venue.) Then being surprised by the ensuing drama?
        It would have been fair to EVERYONE to simply communicate, to just say, “She said something extremely hurtful after the accident.”

        1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

          Not victim blaming, but putting a spotlight on Ted being the victim of Sally’s very unkind words.
          And like many victims, he’s trying to hide it, because HE feels he’s to blame. He doesn’t see it as “jerks are gonna jerk” which is compounding it. Giving the incident power that it should not have. He should take the power, take control of the narrative. State, “she said this to me. It hurt my feelings and I don’t want her at my wedding.”
          And THEN stop the conversation.
          Again, use his words, “no thank you. I am not going to change my mind and I don’t want to discuss it anymore.”
          Which will be so much easier with successful therapy. Which I hope he gets. He deserves to feel better about himself.

        2. Boof*

          Eh, well you kind of are victim blaming with that framing – I wouldn’t say “ted compounded the problem” so much as “ted did not know how to handle this and was feeling deeply rattled”. SALLY is the one at fault, sally is the aggressor. Yes there are better ways for Ted to protect himself but you just have to be careful to keep the stress on the fault being Sally’s / the aggressor’s. (but if the victim is asking for advice, not the aggressor, then the only helpful advice is what the victim can control – but I think it’s still helpful to remind them it’s not fair and not their fault, just this is what they can do)

        3. Me*

          Your framing is pretty victim blaming. I think a nicer way to say this would be Ted needs helps learning how to set boundaries.

          As we can clearly see by the many many many letters, boundary setting and sticking up for ones self are difficult difficult lemon difficult.

          And being told something horrible after an already traumatic experience and then saying well he just made it worse because xyz? Not the nicest thing to say. Many people, myself included would struggle with how to handle that situation.

            1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

              The work day version of hold my beer:
              hold my venti, decaf cappuccino with skim.
              (this is what my mom would order at Starbucks, so it’ burned into my long term memory!)

          1. Former Employee*

            It isn’t victim blaming to acknowledge that because Ted didn’t communicate what happened, it left his coworkers thinking that he was being mean by not inviting Sally to his wedding. Essentially, by not giving them the context, they created their own narrative. While the proximate cause of all this is clearly Sally, the coworkers can’t know that because they weren’t told.

            It reminds me of situations in which a person who is well liked is suddenly let go from their job with no explanation. It leaves a vacuum that is filled by conjecture. If no one likes the manager, it may be assumed the manager was jealous of the well liked former employee. When someone takes the former coworker’s place who appears to be liked by the manager, it may be assumed the manager got rid of the other person because they wanted to bring this one in.

            In truth, the person who was let go was embezzling or inappropriately sharing confidential information or just not doing the job, but had been good at covering it up. How would anyone know if they weren’t told?

    4. ecnaseener*

      Absolutely. Sally is extrapolating who deserves to live based on who she personally has stronger feelings for. She is not the arbiter of morality, she is one person with one limited set of experiences. She cannot know everything Ted has done in his life, and Ted sounds like someone who cares deeply about being a good person so I’m sure he has done a lot of good.

    6. Dust Bunny*

      Sally is an absolute tool who has no right to any further space in Ted’s head. Seriously, this has everything to do with how bizarre and inappropriate her behavior is and nothing, as far as we can tell, to do with anything about Ted.

      1. Not Tom, Just Petty*

        ecnaseener* “Sally is extrapolating who deserves to live based on who she personally has stronger feelings for.”
        translation:
        Dust Bunny* “Sally is an absolute tool who has no right to any further space in Ted’s head.”
        I LOVE THE COMMENTS HERE.

    7. Princess Trachea-Aurelia Belaroth*

      This is it. You cannot control how people feel and the weird emotions people have in extreme situations–often even your own. Bargaining thought processes are a thing.

      It’s the fact that, after the fact, she thought it was in any way acceptable to go up to Ted and tell him this. What was the point? The only non-bananas thing I can think was if she was trying to ease her guilt about having done it by explaining and apologizing? Like when people in AA are supposed to call up people from their past and apologize. But even then, she should know that it was going to cause more harm than good, and would only be for her own self-satisfaction.

      Regardless of why she did it in the first place, telling Ted was an incredibly bad judgment call, hurtful and unnecessary, and Ted should know that anyone who would SAY THAT is completely out of line, regardless.

      1. Empress Matilda*

        Even in AA, the “making amends” step specifically includes the words except when to do so would injure them or others. The whole point is to avoid causing further harm – and you do have to use some judgement to determine if that’s likely to happen. So whatever Sally’s intentions were, it’s clear that she has terrible judgement.

        What a giant mess this is, OP. I hope Ted gets things sorted out at his workplace, and you can both enjoy your wedding drama-free!

        1. Elizabeth West*

          As people have said upthread, perhaps Sally did it in the context of receiving forgiveness from her god through confession. But as I understand confession, at least from a Catholic standpoint, you’re supposed to confess TO THE LORD.

          I’m picturing her as Bev Keane from Midnight Mass and you can’t convince me otherwise. She’s a bully, plain and simple.

      2. Charlotte Lucas*

        And it sounds like she then tried to explain that it was somehow *right* to think Bob’s life was more valuable.

        1. Empress Matilda*

          Not only that, but she tried to explain that TO TED. To the person she had just said his life was worth less than the other person’s. How could she possibly think he could agree with something like that??

    8. Lurkittycat*

      I might be oversensitive, but as someone who has been subject to irrational thoughts, including the idea that everyone hates me or that no one would care if I died/disappeared, I would be careful with the idea of “nudge.” I think it’s very possible this might be something that requires more nuanced support, especially since he might still have some unresolved trauma from the accident–a few months is not a very long time out from a life-threatening experience, tbh. It might be better to gently encourage Ted to get some therapy to work through why he is internalizing/extrapolating from Sally’s comment, rather than trying to rationally argue him out of his feelings.

    9. JB*

      Although I agree that objectively Sally’s comment shouldn’t impact how Ted views himself or his relationship with others at the office, it might not be as easy as not dwelling on it. I expect I would be deeply affected if a coworker said this to me; it’s beyond a careless remark. It feels deeply malicious for Sally to have chosen to say this to Ted directly.

      Obviously, ‘I prayed for you to die’ sounds extra dramatic, but I can’t imagine ANY permutation of what was said that could possibly be interpreted as anything short of extremely aggressive bullying. Even taking prayer out of it, what she expressed is, “If it were in my power, I would choose for you to die so that Bob could live”.

    10. JelloStapler*

      Plus was made clear that Sally felt that way because of things Bob did for HER: lending HER money, listening to HER problems. It seemef like a selfish reason for a really selfish prayer.

    12. Student*

      No reason to give this particular case exemptions for drunkenness, being high on painkillers, or other potential explanations for Sally’s outrageous behavior.

      Ted needs some serious help to move past the cruel comment, regardless of whether the cause is Sally’s a run-of-the-mill jerk, or has a serious addiction, or mental disorder.

      I had to deal with comments of a similar quality from drunk people in my life. It doesn’t automatically help the victim to know they’re doing this out of a state of drunkenness when you’re the one who’s getting hurt by it – it can still be quite difficult to move on from drunken cruelty.

  12. Naomi*

    I wonder why Sally felt the need to tell Ted that she was more invested in Bob’s survival than his… but even more, I wonder why Sally thought she had to choose at all. She wasn’t deciding who to pull from a burning building, and it’s not like there was a quota where someone had to die. Prayers aren’t rationed! She could have prayed for both of them to live!

    1. Threeve*

      Could be that Sally thought Ted’s reaction would be to try to win her over by being more like Bob–“you’ve just been through a horrible experience, let me take advantage of it to get special treatment as you try to ‘measure up’ to Bob.” Negging, basically. (In a sociopath kind of way.)

      1. Jarissa*

        This is exactly what I imagined, Threeve: that Sally was laying groundwork for future grifting — probably not with a specific goal in mind yet, merely as a habit that she uses in every social circle when she spots an opportunity. Maybe she wanted him to defer to her in team decisions. Maybe she wanted him to let her have the last cup of coffee. Maybe she wanted him to try to comfort her over her “marital troubles”.

        Maybe she just wanted him to believe that Bob is her “special” friend, wink wink, nudge nudge, and Bob has no idea.

        1. Van Wilder*

          This didn’t occur to me because, honestly, I don’t associate with many users like this (people-users, not drug users). But this makes sense given the context. Borrowing money from a coworker calls her judgment into question.

      2. justpeachy86*

        The last thing I would want to do as Ted is give this woman marriage advice and money…. if that is Sally’s measure of a “top tier” person. Nah….. hard pass. Count yourself doubly blessed.

    2. HigherEdAdminista*

      The fact that she mentioned Bob has given her money and seemingly attention made me wonder if this wasn’t some kind of weird form of manipulation to get things out of Ted too, to prove he is “worthy” of being prayed for.

      1. Charlotte Lucas*

        But Ted clearly survived without her “help.” So, a logical person (something Sally clearly is not) would think, “Hmmm… Sally’s prayers don’t work. Also, that’s not how it’s supposed to work anyway.”

          1. Charlotte Lucas*

            It’s Sally who’s being illogical to me. I think Ted is right to have hurt feelings about this. (And I understand how he’s projecting this onto the rest of the team.) But if Sally’s trying to get Ted to behave more like Bob & give her money & attention, it seems pretty obvious to me that her behavior would have the opposite effect.

    3. Princess Trachea-Aurelia Belaroth*

      The only thing that would be even a bit reasonable (to have it occur to her, not to actually do) would be if she felt guilty for having done that (sometimes we resort to illogical bargaining in emotionally stressful situations, so maybe she felt bad later) and felt like she needed to apologize? But that’s still not acceptable, because she should also know that it would be hurtful, and doing it would only be for her own self-satisfaction.

      And I really have no reason to think this IS why she did it, I was just looking for explanations that weren’t “Sally is an abject bully and wanted to tell Ted, after the fact, that she liked him less than Bob to the point of actively praying to trade his life.” Like, I wonder if she told this to Bob as well. That would be telling.

      1. Sal*

        This sounds possible to me. Like she kinda sorta meant to seek absolution but forgot to do the regret-and-apology part, and instead just collapsed back on seeking reassurance.

        What an absolute POS, wowee kazowee.

      2. JB*

        It doesn’t even sound like she apologized, though; she justified it by saying Bob is better and Ted ‘can’t compare’.

        1. Princess Trachea-Aurelia Belaroth*

          Some people have a messed up view of what an apology is. Even if she meant to “apologize” here, it was only for her own ego, so I would not be surprised if she considered “explanation=apology.”

          As Sal says above and Paulina below, if you’re not that emotionally intelligent you might just seek reassurance to ease your guilt and call it an apology.

      3. Paulina*

        I see it similarly; Sally felt guilty about her prayer and told Ted in order to clear her conscience. The fact that telling Ted is a hurt she actively chose to make against him doesn’t seem to have crossed her mind. I’ve known others who had similar thinking about apologies, in that they make them to ease themselves and don’t really consider whether what they say is good for the person they’re supposedly apologizing to. Sally even leaned on Ted to agree that she was right to have made the choice she did! That’s extra conscience-clearing.

    4. Beth*

      I can only guess that Sally felt guilty about having prayed for Ted’s death — so, clearly, the “right” thing to do was to confess and be forgiven. How dare Ted not immediately forgive her! She was being so honest!

      The Sallies of the world always know that they’re entitled to forgiveness, ’cause their narrow-minded god of entitlement just luvs them sooooo much.

    5. Artemesia*

      This. WHY did she have to voice this? If my kid and another were in a burning building and I saw a firefighter with one of the kids over his shoulder of course I would hope it was my child — but even then you would not tell the other parent ‘we hoped if only one could live, it would be ours.’ So many things we think we should never say.

      Ted needs to let his co-workers know WHY Sally is not included.

  13. EBStarr*

    Poor Ted! If he were more secure he’d probably be able to see that what happened says so much more about Sally than it does about him. But I suspect part of this is happening because he’s so humiliated by what she said that he doesn’t want to tell anyone. That makes me sad, but I totally sympathize–sometimes the shame takes over even when a person has nothing to be ashamed of.

    I hope you two have a lovely wedding day no matter what happens with the coworkers.

    1. CBB*

      Yes, I really feel for Ted. I suspect Sally targeted him with her mean comment because she knew it would get under his skin.

    2. Van Wilder*

      Ugh this makes me sad.

      My impulse would be to tell the team “Sally said something really unkind to me right after the accident. I don’t want to stir up drama but I don’t feel comfortable having her at the wedding because of her comment. I understand if some of you choose not to come.”

      But as I’m writing this, I feel it opens the door for the team to ask Sally what she said and Sally to spin it her way. The one thing I don’t think is an option is keeping it to himself. I get why he tried, but now it’s time to share.

    1. tangerineRose*

      Maybe she has no filter or just about no filter? I don’t understand that either. Maybe this is why her marriage is struggling – maybe she says every single thing she thinks.

      1. SnappinTerrapin*

        Using the term “thinks” loosely.

        A sentence wandering through someone’s head and out their mouth doesn’t necessarily mean they “thought.”

    2. Threeve*

      What Sally said is absolutely bonkers, but the general opinion that a confession immediately results in a clean slate is a fairly common one. Like, “yes, I cheated on her–but I came clean and apologized! Why is she still leaving me??”

    3. Karo*

      Right?! And it’s not like it’s something that would eventually come out anyway; no one is going around asking what each person prayed for immediately after the accident. This is admitting a transgression because you want to clear your conscience without thinking about how it will impact the other person.

    4. I Wrote This in the Bathroom*

      Yeah, that would’ve been a great time for one of my favorite Midwestern “Why are you telling me this?” (said in an honestly confused, befuddled tone, with a facial expression to match.)

      1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

        I don’t think I could have filtered fast enough to keep from saying “Why on god’s green earth would you think that was something I needed to know?”

          1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

            I probably wouldn’t have chosen to filter it either, but even if I had wanted to ….

        2. quill*

          “Good lord, why are you telling me this?”

          It’s the kind of classic phrase you use when someone wants to dissect their recent bunion surgery, usually not when someone wants to confess that they prayed against you!

    5. Campfire Raccoon*

      Because Sally has to make everything about her, all the time. I have a sister like this. Not being invited to the wedding is the type of drama/misery she can suckle from for years to come.

      1. Former Young Lady*

        Yup. People who say asinine things to the grieving/convalescing person also tend to fly off the handle when they don’t get invited to weddings. You go out of your way to insult and alienate people, and then when you succeed, you play the victim.

        Sally sounds like the type of wedding guest who’d show up in a white gown and a tiara, anyway.

    6. Meep*

      Soooo one of my coworker made some very racist remarks about a Muslim child’s birthday party. She pointed out none of the fathers were present and that they were probably upstairs making bombs. Completely forgoing the fact that if the party had been predominately white then she wouldn’t bat an eye that it was hosted by the mother and her friends (and the kids’ moms). She KNEW she made me uncomfortable as my best friend is Muslim. She even acknowledged it and told me she didn’t want me to see her as a racist before doubling down on her previous comments.

      This isn’t the worst thing she has said. She is kind of an awful person in general, so Sally saying this doesn’t surprise me in the slightest.

      1. Use your words*

        Maybe I’ve just hit the end of my tolerance of racists but I’d make her pay for that. I’d make sure everyone knew exactly how she speaks about Muslims and what kind of person she is and let the natural consequences occur. That’s the kind of comment that should be recorded and shared.

      2. Empress Matilda*

        Pro tip to your coworker: any time you say “I’m not a racist, but…” – it’s an actual guarantee that you’re about to say something super racist. How about starting off by not saying any of that, hmmkay?

        1. Rachel in NYC*

          yeah, I had a new coworker use the n- word at a work event. Maybe 2 people heard him. The next day, he was looking for a new job.

        2. Working Hypothesis*

          It’s a variation on the old maxim that “The correct way to punctuate any statement which begins ‘This is really none of my business, but…’ is to put a period before the ‘but’ and stop there.” The correct way to punctuate any statement which begins “I’m not a racist, but…” is to put a period before the “I’m” and come up with something totally unrelated to say instead. :P

      3. generic_username*

        Uh, you need to report that ish to your HR. If that’s how comfortable your coworker feels voicing objectively racist statements, she’s probably (definitely) acting on biases and racist thoughts in the workplace. If you aren’t responding strongly to her statements in the moment, you risk being lumped in with her if someone overhears as well.

        1. Elizabeth West*

          Definitely. That’s HR-worthy if anything is. I’m still trying to fit my eyeballs back into my head after reading it.

    7. CBB*

      She’s a bully who likes to cause drama. One deviously mean comment targeted at someone who she knew would be badly affected. And look at all the drama that continues to unfold.

      Like an arsonist who sets a building on fire with a single match.

    8. Allegra*

      Given her actions with the prayer and confession after, I think it comes from a particular kind of Christian mindset–I think it’s a leap to say she’s a bully or a toxic drama-stirrer. Among certain streams, people are considered spiritually on the hook for things that they even think about (I’m thinking about accounts I’ve read from folks who grew up LDS and had to avoid certain books because reading about sin was as bad as doing the sin themselves). There’s a lot of pressure in those streams to confess said thoughts/”sins”, and people are equally pressured to forgive people who wronged them as long as they confess.

      I feel like that’s what happened here–she felt bad about her thought-sins and confessed, expecting to be absolved. But for most of us outside of this particular Christian paradigm, forgiveness needs other things, like a meaningful apology and understanding of harm done, so Ted is quite reasonably *hurt* instead of being like “I forgive you because you told me”. There’s clearly a lot of boundary issues in this team and I don’t mean that what she said is okay at all! Just that it makes sense in a certain context.

      1. pancakes*

        So bullying isn’t bullying unless the bully is self-aware that that’s what they’re doing? Nah, that’s not how that works.

        1. Allegra*

          No, I meant people saying “she did this because she’s a narcissistic bully/she gets off on drama” seemed like a leap. People say hurtful things without it being bullying.

  15. S*

    This might be an opportunity for the letter writer to take one for the team, as it were. If there’s nothing Sally can say now that will fix the breach, Ted might be better off telling people that both he and the LW were very distressed by what Sally said, and LW was uncomfortable having her at the wedding. This takes some heat off Ted at work, and it may be something he’s more willing to say publicly. Telling people that someone hurt your feelings puts you in a pretty vulnerable position, and if Ted already feels like maybe all his coworkers prefer Bob to him, he may not be willing to be that honest. If it’s framed as LW’s (understandable!) anger at Sally’s death wish, it explains the substance of the issue without putting him in that spot.

    1. Eldritch Office Worker*

      Yeah that might work. “Sally and I can still work together but my fiance isn’t comfortable with her coming to the wedding”, while not exactly true, might settle things a bit. And it’s not exactly false either, just not the whole picture.

      1. Threeve*

        “You know me, I don’t like to exclude people. But Fiance has this thing about celebrating life events with people who have openly hoped for my death. And marriage is about compromise.”

    2. anonymous73*

      I don’t like this at all. OP states that they were a close knit group who got together outside of work. Assuming it included SOs, the team knows the OP and throwing her under the bus will resolve nothing. Ted needs to speak up and tell the real reason he didn’t invite Sally to the wedding. Maybe even meet with his manager and let them know what happened and how they think best to handle it moving forward. But he needs to stop blaming the venue.

      1. FYI*

        Agreed. He can stop blaming the venue, the fiancée, and simply state the truth. “Sally prayed for me to die, so I don’t want her at the wedding.”

    3. The New Normal*

      I would 1000% take that one for my husband/fiancé. I would even dig shallowly into my frustration and anger at her audacity and act out.

    4. BRice*

      Here’s the thing – all the women in the office are freezing him out which leads me to believe Sally told them she suspects Ted’s fiancé thinks they’re “too close” and that’s why she wasn’t invited. I wouldn’t put anything past her. So I’d worry if he said that it would make things worse. Also I’m not a religious person but do prayers have to be triaged like that?

      1. Gracely*

        No, they do not. Which is also why her even making that prayer to begin with is so bizarre, let alone deciding she needed to tell Ted after the fact.

  16. Les*

    Another in a long line of examples why coworkers should not be invited to life events. Have some kind of office luncheon if one is deemed necessary, but it’s a poor idea to blur the boundaries between friends and those with whom one interacts while drawing a paycheck.

    1. Canadian Valkyrie*

      I think you can do it if it’s generally common known in your office that you’re friends with Ahsoka but you’re just coworkers with Obi Wan, Anakin, and Kanan. For example, it was never a problem in my office that I invited only this 1 coworker because everyone knew we carpooled due to her not having a car and that we had become friends outside of work as a result.

      2. Reba*

        Right, it’s like the rule from elementary school — include the whole class, or less than [half or a third, I’ve heard both].

        I definitely don’t think you can never be “real” friends with work friends! But friend-group dynamics can be tricky. I wouldn’t be surprised if there were other, less dramatic, instances of going along to keep the peace in the group, i.e. with 1-2 difficult group members, here.

        So the invitation thing really was a misstep, both in terms of etiquette and strategy for dealing with this Sally problem. But, I understand how the LW and Ted got to this point, as Ted seems very conflict-avoidant *and* he highly values the team relationships.

        You just can’t exclude one person from a group, refuse to say anything about why, and expect everyone else to… not react or not have questions about it. And Sally is filling that information vacuum.

        Best thing to do now is say your part. And then let go–you can’t control what people think! And try to enjoy your wedding.

    2. Heidi*

      I’ve been in offices where only some people were invited to weddings and it went fine. You just have to do it when everyone is pretty much sane, which…did not happen here.

      1. Smithy*

        With exception to circumstances like a team having one member based remotely out of state/country or a new team member joining in the last few weeks – I think it’s really hard to ever make a case of it being sane to invite everyone but one person from a team. Not that the exclusion of Sally doesn’t make sense, but there was never going to be a way to exclude only her and have it not ultimately cause issues.

        1. Loulou*

          Agreed. I do think that the team’s reaction is weird and extreme though. If this happened on my team everyone would privately think it was rude, gossip a little, and remain polite and collegial with Ted.

          1. Smithy*

            I’ve also worked on teams where this would be handled with the the polite and deranged fire of 1,000 passive aggressive suns. Especially considering how seniority balanced out. If Sally was more senior, this would be seen as a weird slight she’d just have to take – but if Ted is more senior then it would be seen as far more aggressive.

            All to say, there are a number of ways this could go pear shaped and whatever Ted hoped would happen seems preciously naïve to me.

      2. LDN Layabout*

        ‘Some people’ vs. ‘Everyone bar one’ is also very different. Even with a sane office, that’s putting the cat amongst the pigeons and pretty much deliberately trolling for drama.

      3. Becca*

        Well also, as Alison pointed out, inviting everybody except one person sends a very pointed message, just as OP was concerned about. The venue limits isn’t being accepted as an excuse because they managed to find room for the rest of the team, just not Sally. (To be clear, it’s understandable, but only with the context we have that the rest of the team doesn’t. On the other hand, the team picking sides in a way that makes it women vs men is… interesting.) It should be a few close people or the whole team.

      4. DANGER: Gumption Ahead*

        Me too. In functional environments with functional people, it is totally understandable that Yomy, Momy, and Tomy were invited to Stacie’s wedding, but Bony, Tony, and Nony weren’t since they aren’t ac close to her and her wife-to-be. Weddings are expensive for both the couple and the guest (e.g. clothes, gift, losing part of you off-work time), so most people understand that only folks you feel close to will be invited and the ones you are not close to will be fine with it.

        1. doreen*

          There’s a difference between inviting half of your co-workers and inviting everybody except one. And BTW , this doesn’t only apply to co-workers – if you invite all of your cousins/friends/people on your bowling team except one , you’re making a statement about them and will have drama.

          1. Recruited Recruiter*

            Spouse and I found out the hard way that inviting none of the aunts on one side of the family also causes drama. One would think that familial death threats would be enough reason to not invite someone without drama.

    3. Sad public health worker*

      Gotta say my response was also like “this is why you have to be SO careful about becoming actual friends with people at work”

        2. Sad public health worker*

          It’s def a particularly strange case, but for example, I work for a conservative state government in a public service role and I keep the fact that I’m gay not super locked down, but I’m not very open about it. You just never know how someone will react or what will happen so it makes sense to not have coworkers so involved in my life.

      2. allathian*

        Yeah, this. If you’re not friends with your coworkers, nobody will wonder why they didn’t get an invitation to your wedding. I didn’t tell my coworkers about my wedding until after the fact. Long after the fact. Most of them found out on the day I returned from maternity leave, because I took my husband’s name when we got married. I told my manager as soon as we got married, and my new email alias worked on my first day back.

        I had to go on sick leave about 2 months before my due date, because I could neither sit nor stand for long periods, and spent most of my days reclining on the couch, even if I wasn’t on total bed rest. We got married two weeks later.

    4. anonymous73*

      Mature and reasonable adults can have friends at work. Mature and reasonable adults can even be real life friends with their boss (although rare, it IS possible). Clearly this does not involve mature reasonable adults.

    5. CTT*

      Although non-work advice columns would tell us that there can plenty of drama involving non-work friends and family members who make scenes in the lead-up to weddings and the couple ends up in similar situations to this, so the real lesson is to be on alert for the high-drama people in your life.

    6. Adrianne*

      That was my reaction as well, sounds like the professional boundaries were blown away LONG before the car accident – it’s one thing to form friendships at work, but another altogether to have that kind of reaction to a co-worker car accident, wedding, or lack of invitation to life events. I am more focused on the “all women on the team are on Sally’s side, and the men are on Ted’s side” thing – because that throws up a MASSIVE red flag for me as a manager. It makes me think that things were going off the rails for a while, but just hadn’t had the catalyst to make it clear to anyone outside the team until the invite fiasco.

    7. Kate*

      It’s so hard; I remember 16 years ago when there were people I really would have liked to invite from work (at my peer level, I was a manager), but the stakes were raised because the wedding was 4.5 hours away and on a Saturday evening so it was effectively a whole weekend and thus it all felt far more of a big deal as well. I ended up not inviting people I really wanted to come because it if I invited those five and their partners, it meant not inviting two out of seven folks on the same team and that would have been awkward and uncomfortable.

      At the same time it would have been not only weird to invite those two in the spirit of inclusivity (since we weren’t friends, just people who work together) but because our workplace functioned seven days a week I knew that not all of the seven would be able to make it either. I just couldn’t wrap my brain around the fact that I might end up having the two that I wasn’t close to at the wedding, with the others not able to make it because they were covering…and it was all a mess. So my solution was to invite…no one. :(

    1. PolarVortex*

      Right now Sally is looking like the saintly hurt party when this entire fubar’d situation began with her actions. If I was coworkers with Sally I’d want to know what kind of person I’m working with. I don’t wanna be working with someone who prays for a coworker to not live! So tell people Ted!

      (At least tell the manager, who clearly needs to keep an eye on Bob and Sally’s work relationship because I agree Sally’s got some kind of intense emotions about Bob. Which can be problematic for a team, although this situation is not the type of problem I would expect to happen..)

      ((Additionally LW, as someone who spent a lot of time internalizing people’s comments due to some pretty rough social anxiety. I get how this can cycle viciously for years (decades) and I hope Ted can find a way to work past that either by himself or with the help of a professional.))

    3. Jamie Starr*

      Not only that – but why would you even think that??! Like why not pray both of them live? I have the mindset of you don’t wish bad things or harm on people — even those you dislike, or even as a joke.

      1. Ace in the Hole*

        She might have prayed they both live, and then prayed this as a backup. Something along the lines of “please let them both be okay, but if one of them has to die please don’t take Bob.” That’s not even wishing harm on someone… it’s just favoritism. Not great, but not horrible either.

        The horrible part is TELLING him. That has no potential to do anything positive. Basically it seems like Sally knew it was kind of shitty to think what she’d thought, and wanted to tell Tim so he’d absolve her of any guilt. 100% about making herself feel better at Tim’s expense.

        1. Jamie Starr*

          I just don’t understand why you would even pray this as a back up. Admittedly I am not religious and don’t believe in prayer, but based on a childhood of forced Christian church/Sunday school attendance I seem to recall that you’re supposed to leave stuff like that to god’s will… Like that line in the Lord’s Prayer — thy will be done?

          And yes, it’s certainly horrible that she felt the need to tell him about it! I’m fond of this saying, “All truth is good, but not all truth is good to say.” She should keep her prayers between her and whomever she’s praying to.

          1. Ace in the Hole*

            We don’t know what her religion teaches about the power of prayer, God’s will, predestination, etc. We don’t even know what religion Sally follows, much less her denomination. Even if we did know, it’s none of our (or Tim’s) business how well Sally follows the tenets of her faith.

            I’m also not a fan of judging people’s private thoughts… especially in highly stressful crisis situations.

            The key thing is her actions: choosing to tell Tim what she thought. I’d have a very different opinion of the situation if Sally had tried to keep this private but Tim had somehow discovered it anyways – like if he’d seen it in her personal journal somehow, or if he’d seen a message not intended for him where she was seeking advice/help processing her feelings. But she chose to tell him and did so in a particularly cruel way to boot.

            1. Jamie Starr*

              That’s a good point about not knowing her religion or whether she’s following it properly. That being said, I will totally judge someone’s private thoughts when they make them public. It speaks to the type of person they are, and that is useful information to have when dealing with them. When someone shows you who they are, believe them.

              1. Ace in the Hole*

                Yes, that’s my point exactly. The issue is not that she thought it, the issue is that she said those thoughts out loud to Ted.

                I think it’s really important to make that distinction because Sally will probably try to spin the narrative to make it seem like Ted is out to get her for her thoughts/feelings (aka things she can’t control) as opposed to her actions (things she can and should control). If he lets her get control of the story this way, she’ll just use it to gain more sympathy and support. He needs to be prepared to pull the conversation back on track by pointing out that even if she can’t choose how she feels, the choice to tell him about it was deliberate and extremely hurtful.

                1. pancakes*

                  Ah, got it. I think the people who have suggested taking to others in the office, not her, are probably on the right track, for that same reason – to the extent Sally gets a chance to weigh in on this, she is likely to twist it around rather than just apologize.

                2. Working Hypothesis*

                  While I think you’re correct about the strategy, and about the worst part of what she did, I do also think it’s fair to judge somebody for thoughts that they go out of their way to tell, unasked. If Sally hadn’t told anyone about her prayer but someone happened to overhear her whispering to her deity in what she thought was the privacy of her own office, I would feel strongly that what she prayed was her own business and not mine to judge, even if I found out about it because the person who overheard spread it around. But if she goes to Ted and tells him all about it, it’s not *only* true that she’s said something hurtful to Ted and that is a bad thing to do in itself (although all of that is true and it’s the most important piece of the puzzle). It’s *also* true that at that point, she is inviting people to have opinions on what her prayers contained. She obviously expected and hoped that Ted would agree with her that it was a proper and reasonable prayer. She’s offering it up for opinions; she doesn’t get to control who hears it at that point, or what opinions they have.

          2. Ally McBeal*

            I’m with you on this. I was raised Christian and am a different denomination of Christian now (& still actively religious, although deeply concerned about organized religion as a broad concept and my denomination specifically). The WORST part of this scenario was Sally telling Tim, but she really shouldn’t have been praying for one of them to die if it came down to some sort of one-or-the-other scenario.

  20. Canadian Valkyrie*

    Wow, that’s actually mind boggling; why in the hell would you ever tell someone that you kind of sort of prayed for them to die?! I hope OP’s husband tells the team what happened so that the air can be cleared. That’s such a mess.

    Also is it common to invite your whole team to your wedding? I invited 1 person from my current job (at the time) and 2 people from my previous job to my wedding a few years ago and that was it; I didn’t particularly care for the majority of the people I worked with; I was fine with them as coworkers but had 0 desire to see them outside of work.

    1. inaudible*

      I think inviting one or two is more common, but it is a common piece of etiquette advice that if you invite people from work, it should be a minority of a group, or a whole team (because of obvious perception problems as demonstrated here,) so some people must think of inviting more.

      1. Ginger Baker*

        Right I think when you are inviting 1 or 2 people from work who it’s clear [to everyone] you are just closer with, that’s fine. It becomes an issue if you invite 5 of the team of 6 so it looks like that person is The One Loser You Hate And Didn’t Invite (obviously NOT the message you want to be sending…)

        2. Kate*

          This is also the rule of children’s birthday parties: invite the entire class, or PRIVATELY and OUTSIDE OF SCHOOL invite half or less.

  21. President Porpoise*

    My opinion is that Sally is a drama llama and you have absolutely zero obligation to invite her… but for the sake of the team, it’d be best to let someone on the team, or several teammates, know why. The other teammates are picking sides without full context, and the context matters here. Now, I do think Sally should be told why she’s not on the invite list – but I’d be prepared for her to pretend like it wasn’t a big deal and Ted shouldn’t have taken her seriously, blah blah blah. It may just be that she’s lacking in tact/social awareness, but I’m willing to bet that she’s just someone who kind of likes to stir the pot. Her likeliness to be defensive and unapologetic is why I think you need Ted to get some sympathetic support from other teammates.

    If you do go this route, it could create more drama from Sally. If so, Ted should be prepared to loop in his manager.

    1. cmcinnyc*

      Give Sally the drama she so obviously craves and tell everyone at the next staff meeting what Sally said after Ted returned to work after his scary accident. “…and that is why I didn’t invite you, Sally. You prayed for my death. You PRAYED for my DEATH!” And then stalk on out of there.

      I mean, y’all aren’t really getting any work done with this volume of personal nonsense are you? Crank it to eleven!

      2. EggyParm*

        You’ve got that right! I worked on a very dysfunctional drama-fueled team and people *lived* for these types of interpersonal problems. We couldn’t focus on work until things seemed resolved or said out loud.

        As a metric of just how dysfunctional we were we actually hired a consulting firm to help us become better communicators and they encouraged this airing of the grievances by telling us to set aside time for (wait for it) “Level 10 Conversations” so it’s really funny that you pulled out the eleven!

    2. Canadian Valkyrie*

      I wonder if you’re right about the lacking of social tack thing; like maybe she has some kind of belief around honesty to the point of being wildly inappropriate. I think just the signs that this team is dysfunctional would make a case for looping in the manager asap to get a handle on this weirdness.

    3. Smithy*

      I agree with this. From this story alone, Sally seems like someone who, on some level, enjoys or seeks out social drama. Whereas Ted is clearly looking to avoid this.

      For Ted to share the conversation he had with Sally might be very emotionally vulnerable and difficult in a way that this kind of engagement just isn’t for Sally. Therefore, my move would honestly be to first loop in management – say there has been some difficulty due to this situation. Then propose a desire to talk this through with Sally, perhaps with a mediator, in the spirit of wanting to clear the air and return the focus to work.

      My take is a an open interest to take a more professional/formal approach takes away Sally’s comfort level of the informal and social routes. And then if this does ultimately become more public knowledge, management is already looped in.

      1. Rachel in NYC*

        I wonder if another option- less ideal- but since this is apparently such a close office group would be for OP to speak to one- or a couple- of the other spouses, if there are some that they are friendly with. Sorta a- ‘I can’t believe that this became a thing’, ‘Ted- and honestly I- were just so upset with what Sally said that we weren’t comfortable inviting her to the wedding.’

        I imagine it’ll take about 2 days for the story to make it’s way thru the whole group.

        Less ideal but if Ted isn’t comfortable talking to either his workers or management, he may be comfortable if OP speaks to some of the other spouses and loops them in.

    4. Sara without an H*

      This is good advice. Ted needs to pick out someone at the office who is still (reasonably) sane and brief them about this. I know the OP described Ted as insecure, but he really needs to start presenting a little more of what happened.

      I’d be sorely tempted to say that, if God didn’t listen to Sally, Ted shouldn’t either, but that probably wouldn’t help the situation.

  22. The Original K.*

    I am baffled that Sally felt the need to share this with Ted (people need to learn that you do not have to share every thought you have or action you take; it really is OK to keep stuff to yourself) and in Ted’s shoes I wouldn’t protect her. “Sally low-key prayed for my death and as a direct result, I don’t want her at my wedding.” Point blank and period. Then let the chips fall where they may where people’s feelings about Sally are concerned.

  24. Snarkus Aurelius*

    I don’t understand why you two can’t tell the truth. If you think it’s embarrassing, it is. For Sally. Not for either one of you.

    1. KoiFeeder*

      Well, from Ted’s perspective, imagine telling people this and having the rest of the group nod and go “No, that’s reasonable, Bob is a saint and we’d rather you died instead of him.”

      I know that’s not likely (and that if it does happen that says so much more about this work environment than it does about Ted, for that matter!), but if you have brainweasels, they’re going to be parading that scenario in front of your imagination with unholy glee every time you think about discussing it.

      1. kitryan*

        I wrote a comment that I don’t think posted that was a much worse way of saying this. I completely agree that the fear in telling anyone else at the office is that you don’t get, ‘wow, how incredibly callous of Sally’ but ‘yes, I also wished for your death, because apparently there can be only one and Bob is awesome (and you suck)’, because he’s truly shaken by first, the accident and second, finding out that a relationship he felt good about is actually crap. But it’s crap because of Sally, not Ted, no matter what Ted’s fears.

      3. Flower*

        Yup, if my brain demons were slightly differently directed, this is EXACTLY what they’d be telling me. I have the coping skills to recognize that those are brain demons and they’re lying to me, but I had to learn those.

        It makes perfect sense to me why he doesn’t want to talk about it. It also makes perfect sense that he should, and that this whole event only reflects badly on Sally, no one else. But if his brain demons/brain weasels are directed in that direction… It’s damn hard to defy them and tell them they’re wrong and lying and exaggerating unless you’ve had the chance to build those skills and it doesn’t sound like Ted has.

        1. KoiFeeder*

          Yup, exactly. Heck, I have a therapist and have been working on my coping skills and I doubt I would be able to discuss this with the rest of my coworkers. I mean, I also wouldn’t be able to work with Sally either, this hits a lot of my weasel release buttons, but I certainly understand how talking about a horrible experience to an audience you’re afraid will be unsympathetic is a wretched and painful time even if everything goes perfectly.

        2. Kate*

          It’s so terrible!

          Even if Ted doesn’t think that anyone else thinks that, the very idea of bringing it up and INTRODUCING the notion: “well, no that I think about it….if I had to pick one….”

          Why would you want to put that into your coworker’s brains. I feel for Ted, Sally’s the worst.

      4. münchner kindl*

        Why is it not likely? And why do you need brainweasels?

        Ted thought he had a very good friendship with Sally, and then found out it was all lies.

        It’s very likely that the rest of the team is also very skilled at lying-that-they’re-friends (because that’s what children learn from primary school: lying is polite, telling truth is mean); they may not be so blunt to tell Ted that they prefer Bob, but they probably won’t see anything wrong with what Sally said.

    2. JB*

      It sounds like Ted still hasn’t fully processed the comment – he still likes Sally as a friend and wants to protect her from her own bad behavior. It’s normal not to want to repeat things a friend (or even acquaintance or coworker) said in private, or did in moments of poor judgement, that will reflect on them poorly if it’s not necessary.

      But if you’re not going to invite her to the wedding when you did invite everyone else on the team, it has now become necessary to share what she said. Right now, Sally has full control of the narrative.

      1. Ess*

        It does sound like he’s trying to protect her from her bad behaviour/poor judgement – that’s such a sharp observation! And, at this stage, doing so is redundant because now Sally is villainizing him even though it’s completely reasonable for her not to be invited to their wedding. Sally sounds emotionally stunted so possibly may not even understand that what she had said was not only unacceptable but also very callous? Fortunately not everyone is so juvenile so the others are likely to see the situation from Ted’s perspective, and this is exactly why I agree also that Ted ought to just say matter of factly why she wasn’t invited (and hopefully still isn’t invited). Sally’s comment unfortunately gave Ted the chance to view himself from a different lense and, with that benefit, it makes sense that he wouldn’t want her there to celebrate his wedding – it could even be as simple as just saying “after the car wreck Sally had told me that if one of us had to die then she had prayed it would be me and not Bob and I had realised then that Sally likely didn’t consider us as having a particularly close friendship where it would be appropriate to invite her to the wedding”.

  25. It’s all good*

    Wtf. I hope Ted takes the advice and lets people know why the invitation was not extended. I’m 100% in his corner.

  26. cwhf*

    Wow this office seems really dysfunctional emotionally/relationship wise. Sally’s comment and the reaction to the wedding invites are symptoms of that and not the cause for sure. But I completely agree that it was absolutely delusional to think excluding Sally would not result in this drama, given this workplace dynamic (or honestly any—you have room for everyone but her strains credibility).

    Sally is also clearly a drama llama. Just keep it to yourself. He didn’t die, why share this? This is some batshit crazy stuff. Ted needs to matter of factly share what happened. But given this group there will still be mucho drama. I cannot wait for an update.

    1. redflagday701*

      Yeah, I don’t know what it is exactly, but I’m wondering if “small, very close-knit team, all of whom seem to get along exceptionally well” is actually “our work-life balance is out of whack, but we’re all so enmeshed in it that we can’t tell it’s unhealthy.” Maybe that’s not fair of me. But I think the other women telling Ted they won’t come if Sally can’t is giving me a weird vibe; it feels like they’re adding to the drama.

    2. Thin Mints didn't make me thin*

      yeah, I’m sort of thinking at this point that Ted and LW should just both get jobs 1,000 miles away and call it good.

  27. learnedthehardway*

    I’m voting for Ted to announce his reasons in the next staff meeting. I mean – the whole team knows that he didn’t invite Sally but did invite everyone else. Might as well get the whole thing out in the open, so Sally can’t play the “poor me” card any further.

    3. Albeira Dawn*

      A full presentation, that starts with quotes from Sally acting wronged and letting everyone shun Ted, climaxes with the whole “praying for you to die” thing, and ends with pandemonium in the conference room accompanied by our third-party commentary.

  28. Ben*

    Sally has created a set of conditions that require Ted to be honest with the team about what she said to him. It’s deeply unfair to Ted that his reasonable response to her casual cruelty is now causing even more blowback on him. And when he tells people the background, it will very likely cause more factions to develop, with Sally denying or downplaying it and colleagues pressured to pick sides.

    Sorry to say it, but this is why you don’t make your work team your friend group. Every time — EVERY time — it eventually results in some variation of this nightmare.

  29. ecnaseener*

    The weirdest part to me is that Sally called this a “confession” — so she knew that on some level she had wronged Ted — but doesn’t seem to comprehend that he’s hurt by it??? That’s a real person you’re talking to, not a confessional booth!

    1. Reba*

      Right, Sally feels relieved after coming clean! La la la, phew glad I got that off my chest! I think some people really think that an apology (which this wasn’t even!!!!) erases the past.

      She’s mad about not getting an invite because either A) she genuinely believes they “cleared the air” or B) she knows the relationship is over but is covering her tracks by marshaling people against Ted. Or perhaps simplest, she just doesn’t think very deeply about things and is naturally fueled by drama.

      Meanwhile the recipient of this horrible thought has to live with it. I hope that Ted is able to take in Alison’s logic (in her comment above) and banish this woman’s awful opinion from his mind.

      1. Where’s the Orchestra?*

        Yeah – I have been working with Mini Orchestra that you can’t go hurt someone and just say sorry and magically all is better. Yes, you should say sorry – but people may still be hurt even after you said sorry. It’s better not to hit/slap/scratch at all.

        By the way, Mini Orchestra is four, and is starting to understand. Some people seem to have never gotten that lesson ever (why yes Sally I’m glaring daggers at you!).

    2. Anonymous Hippo*

      I don’t know, this seems more like manipulation. As in framing an insult in the form of an apology, so you can hurt the other person, and yet if they try and confront you about your hurt, you can turn it back on them with “it was an apology”

      1. ecnaseener*

        Sure, that’s probably an element of it — I disagree that the two are mutually exclusive.

        A very self-centered person (the value of a life is measured by her feelings alone) feels guilty, so she decides to confess in order to make herself feel better. She doesn’t care if it hurts his feelings, and in fact how dare he be hurt, she was just being honest about this totally good and correct thing she did!

        1. Working Hypothesis*

          I’ve just been reading about how most children don’t have a “theory of mind” before the age of six or seven — basically, they can’t really understand that different people have different minds and thoughts and feelings. One result is that they can’t really grasp that other people feel differently from the way they feel right then… if they’re happy then the whole world is happy and if they’re miserable so is everybody else.

          If somebody leads them step by step to it, (“Judy says she’s upset. Why do you think Judy might be upset? Judy was playing with the toy. Do you think maybe Judy wanted the toy?”) they can eventually form a tentative concept, but otherwise, “I took the toy and now I’m happy, because I have it! Since I’m happy, everybody else must be happy too!” is the automatic assumption.

          Clearly, Sally has never made it past seven. “I told Ted what I had done and now I feel so much better! Obviously, Ted feels better too, so now everything is okay!” is classic pre-theory-of-mind type thinking.

  30. RKMK*

    Yeah, I think a problem here is that Bob isn’t being up front about the situation. He shouldn’t feel bad about it; she’s the one who broke the social norms telling him she was praying that he’d die. This is a natural, understandable consequence to one’s actions, and he need not be defensive about it. Alisons “no big, but this is the situation” script is perfect, and something like that probably should have been said right up front to anyone who asked, instead of hiding behind venue restrictions.

  31. Sara*

    I feel bad for your fiancée, but by attempting to keep Sally’s reputation in tact, he’s effectively torpedoing his own. He needs to tell people why he doesn’t get along with Sally and allow them to make their own choices on whether or not to let that affect his relationships with them. Otherwise he looks like he’s just being mean to Sally for no reason!

    I don’t know why he keeps insisting it ‘isn’t his place’ to tell people what she said. She said it TO HIM, and HE was hurt. That’s absolutely his place. I think he’s terrified other people agreed with her and will say “so what?” to her insane statement, eroding more relationships. But this way isn’t making things better, blaming the venue clearly isn’t working.

    1. Eldritch Office Worker*

      “by attempting to keep Sally’s reputation in tact, he’s effectively torpedoing his own”

      This is great framing

    2. Typing All The Time*

      I agree. I don’t think he should apologize to Sally for being upset that she felt he should have died.

    4. JB*

      This, exactly.

      Under more normal circumstances, quietly ending the personal relationship while continuing the professional relationship without dragging Sally’s dirty laundry out in public would be a good choice, but the wedding invitations and how Sally has responded means it’s not a viable option here.

  32. Roscoe*

    I’m a guy and I’m totally team Ted here.

    Look, sometimes everyone doesn’t get invited to weddings. I’ve been not invited to friends wedding’s because of size limitations, and I didn’t act like a child toward them, nor would I have expected my friends who were invited to freeze them out either. I totally think Ted should just tell everyone exactly what Sally said. If she looks bad, so be it. The fact that all of these people are acting this way shows that they don’t really care about Ted anyway, so I say let them stay home. If Sally’s fake hurt feelings are more important than the wedding of someone else, then they aren’t worth inviting.

    And yeah, you probably should get management involved. This could’ve been merely a social thing, they made it a professional thing.

    1. londonedit*

      Absolutely. I’ve never worked anywhere where people were routinely invited to their co-worker’s weddings, but there have absolutely been friends’ weddings, even a couple of my cousins’ weddings, that I wasn’t invited to (I’m not hugely close to my cousins so it made perfect sense that my parents were invited but I wasn’t). In British wedding etiquette closer family and friends will usually be invited to the whole day – the ceremony and the immediate wedding reception after that, with the ‘wedding breakfast’ meal etc – and then the celebrations carry on into the evening where you’ll have an additional set of guests who will turn up at about 7pm to join in with the dancing and the evening party. I’ve been invited to a few of those – usually because the people getting married couldn’t afford to have absolutely everyone they wanted to invite for the whole day, so it’s a nice way of being able to invite those less-close friends to join in the celebrations without having to pay a fortune for everyone’s three-course meal or try to fit loads of people into a small church/marriage venue. There’s no way I’d be offended by someone not inviting me to their wedding (unless it was my sister or something!)

      I agree with Alison that it’s not great to not invite one colleague when you’ve invited everyone else, but Ted needs to tell people exactly why that is. It’s absolutely his decision and if he doesn’t feel comfortable inviting someone who prayed that if someone had to die, it should be him (and for the love of god why would he feel comfortable about that) then Sally can suck it up and stop acting like a child.

      1. UKDancer*

        Definitely. I’ve been to one co-worker’s wedding and that was because she was also a personal friend. She invited 3 close friends from work. I wouldn’t expect to be invited to co-workers weddings as a rule and as someone who is not hugely fond of weddings that suits me fine.

        1. allathian*

          Yeah, me too. That said, I’ve never been to a wedding where a part of the guests weren’t invited to the whole thing.

          When one of my husband’s much younger cousins got married a few years ago, my MIL and her husband accepted the invitation to the wedding ceremony, but they didn’t attend the reception.

    2. Elizabeth West*

      All of this. They’re freezing him out and it’s affecting the project. The manager does need to know.

      I don’t think he should make a huge announcement; just tell a few people and let it make the rounds. But Ted, if you’re listening, do not do this until you talk to your manager first!!!!!

    3. STG*

      Yea, I’m falling in this area as well. Frankly my next comment to the group who are freezing him out would be along the lines of ‘Well, can I assume that your RSVP will be a No then?” and move on. However, I would speak to the manager so they were aware since it’s now affecting work.

      I just don’t see any good from telling others what Sally said though. Just seems like it will cause even more drama.

  33. Meghan*

    100% put the onus back on Sally. Your fiancé has done nothing wrong. Even if Sally didn’t do anything wrong, it’d be perfectly fine not to invite her, and the rest of the teams needs to recognize that. Its your wedding, and you’re allowed who you want.

  34. NerdyKris*

    This is like the real life equivalent of the movie character yelling “let me explain!” over and over instead of just stating the explanation. I can’t fathom why Ted thinks not explaining would result in less drama. Everything about this from Sally’s confession onward reads like a cliched movie script forcing it’s characters to make the worst possible decision to keep the drama moving.

    Like Alison said, this might even result in him finding out Sally doesn’t even remember making such a terrible comment.

  35. You can call me flower, if you want to*

    Now I’m not religious, but why wouldn’t Sally pray for both of Ted and Bob to recover? I feel like she’s a pot stirrer. She is making the accident and the wedding all about her. Of course your fiancé is hurt and this has rattled him. Your wedding is about you two. Do whatever makes you happy. If just inviting them so you can avoid dealing with all of this makes you happy, then go for it. But if you’d would rather her not be there, because she said something incredibly cruel-stand your ground and tell the others about her comments. I’d be appalled if I heard that one friend had said that to another, but right now it just looks like Sally is the one being “picked on.” Clearing the air might make everyone feel better-but I would keep Sally at arms length if I were you. Congratulations on your wedding! Wishing you a long and happy marriage!

    1. I Wrote This in the Bathroom*

      Right? I’m not religious either, but isn’t god supposed to be omnipotent? Did she think he was going to be like, “sorry, due to the pandemic, I had to lower the occupancy limit on your planet. I would like to keep both Bob and Ted on there, but I have a strict limit of one for this accident.”

      Ted, for the love of dog, tell them. Tell them!

      Also, seconding Alison’s comment above, for the love of dog, do not let this define your value in your eyes as a human. You are loved. You are getting married to someone who loves you. You are not second-rate! Please don’t take any advice on your value from someone who does not know their a s s from a hole in the ground. (Also, don’t take any advice on your value from anyone.)

      1. mreasy*

        Confirmed with my husband who studied theology and is a church-goer that God would have totally been fine with her praying for both of them to live.

    2. Heidi*

      Yes! I also thought it was unusual that she assumed that she could control their fates through prayer, but only to the extent that one would survive. It’s not a reality singing competition where the judges can only save one. And then to explain the rationale for her completely irrelevant decision to Ted? Decent people take that kind of thing to their graves.

      If Ted does decide to explain, I would start with, “I was really hurt by something Sally said to me after my surgery.” That’s kind of the main point, after all. And then people will be at least a little bit prepared for the bizarreness of what she actually said.

    3. mreasy*

      This is what gets me too! Like, was Sally thinking, I can only ask the big guy for so much? It’s praying, can’t you be pretty expansive about it?

    4. Brightwanderer*

      IMO it’s not really about religion, except that that’s how she’s ended up framing it (which may have been why she’s acted the way she has in response).

      When someone you care about is in danger or you think they’re in danger, and there is nothing you can do about it but wait and imagine the worst, this exact bargaining spiral is very, very common. You start off with “no, no, please don’t let this happen”. You move to “I will do literally anything to stop this from happening”. And then you start quantifying what that “anything” looks like, including “if you have to take somebody, take the OTHER person”.

      It’s not rational or well-thought-out. It’s a panic spiral of impending grief and helplessness, and it can get very selfish and very ugly, and many people will feel terribly guilty afterwards (especially if e.g. the other person did die and they feel like they caused it). I expect that guilt is compounded if you are religious, and considered your thoughts to be active prayer, and believe that making those prayers could have impacted the situation in any way.

      So honestly, for that part, I can give Sally the benefit of the doubt. I am assuming that her relationship with Bob, whatever it is, rises to that level of grief, while her relationship with Ted doesn’t.

      However, any potential sympathy for her from me ends at the exact second she decided that a) she should be confessing this _to Ted_, b) the act of confessing was a magic button that made it all go away and would have no impact on Ted, and c) the fact that she JUSTIFIED picking Bob over Ted to his face WHY.

      TL;DR I consider the exact specifics of what she may or may not have prayed for to be a red herring: the cruelty and/or carelessness and/or shit-stirring is entirely about her decision to unburden herself to Ted about it. I guess she wanted him to smile benevolently and say “all is forgiven, my dear friend” or whatever?? I feel so, so bad for Ted.

      1. Ally McBeal*

        Yeah, bargaining is a part of the grieving process, and I think that’s exactly what was going on in Sally’s head. I’m struggling to see where she’s coming from, but I know grief and I know that grief isn’t rational. But when your irrational grief starts to hurt other people, that’s where it becomes a problem (again, been there done that).

    5. JB*

      This is an odd thing to focus on, and very derailing.

      Illogical bargaining like this is a normal response to an extreme situation. (It’s even one of the regular stages of grief.) I think anyone who’s been waiting on news from an accident or had more than one loved one in poor health knows this. I currently have two immediate family members undergoing chemo and I certainly know which one I would prefer to survive, if it’s only going to be one. It’s not logical and reality doesn’t actually work that way, but it’s how the human mind deals with tragedy, and it’s obtuse to act like the fact that Sally expressed it in religious terms somehow makes it confusing.

      The issue is that she chose to express those thoughts out loud to anybody involved, ESPECIALLY the person on the ‘losing’ end of her bargain.

      1. UKDancer*

        Yes quite. When my father had a pretty major health issue I made any number of bargains in my head with a god I don’t believe in for what I’d do if he survived. It’s a fairly normal thing to do.

        Obviously I had the sense to keep the details of this to myself and not go telling everyone.

    6. RagingADHD*

      Sally’s mindset here does not conform to the tenets of any known religion, and directly violates most of the ones I’m familiar with.

      This is a conglomeration of serious boundary issues, magical thinking, emotional immaturity, and self-centeredness. She just picked up some jargon to make it sound respectable.

      1. Blue*

        Yeah, I can understand *having the thought.* That kind of frantic bargaining isn’t an unusual response to something terrible happening – I can easily imagine being like, “Please don’t let anything terrible happen, but okay, okay, if something terrible is going to happen, please let it be the *slightly less terrible* thing.”
        It’s the fact that a) Sally seems to feel really good about having that thought and turning it into a conscious request, and b) to think that not just telling Ted about it but defending it to him instead of apologising, and being like, “Yeah, well, if anyone had to choose between you and Bob, obviously they’d choose Bob, why are you acting hurt?” that’s so wildly bizarre and offensive.

      1. allathian*

        Yeah, absolutely.

        I’m so happy I work for an organization where people are generally professional and friendly with each other. Some people are friends outside of work, to the point of attending each other’s weddings, and that’s great for them. I can’t imagine being happy in a culture like the one at Ted’s employer, though.

  38. Hills to Die on*

    Stuff like this is why I eloped the first time around and also part of why my partner and I aren’t even bothering with a wedding / marriage.

    2. generic_username*

      I got married in late 2020, and I was so happy to stop agonizing over my wedding guest list once I shifted to a virtual ceremony

    3. allathian*

      We didn’t quite elope, but only invited our immediate families. I was also nearly 8 months pregnant at the time, and it was a perfect excuse to skip a big wedding. None of my friends ever questioned our decision, even if I’d been happy to attend their big weddings. Weddings here tend to have a matron of honor (married) and a bridesmaid (unmarried), if the friend/family group makes this possible, so I was never offended not to be chosen for either role when my friends got married, although I did help my bestie (she’s my bestie, but I doubt I’m hers, she’s a lot more extroverted than I am and has lots of close friends, whereas I only have a handful) make some goodie bags for her wedding when she asked us.

  39. generic_username*

    You either pretend it didn’t happen or you don’t. You can’t never tell anyone what happened, but then publicly behave as if it did. I’m honestly shocked anyone is siding with Ted with their lack of knowledge. Start letting people know. As Allison said, you should do it matter-of-factly and as much without drama as you can, but you need to give them context here.

    1. Detective Amy Santiago*

      Yeah, at a very minimum, Ted needs to say “After my accident, Sally said some things to me that I cannot forgive and that is why she’s not invited to the wedding.” I’m a trash person, so I’d blast out exactly what she said, but Ted is clearly classier than me.

      3. allathian*

        Me too. I also don’t particularly care if my coworkers like me or not, as long as they can work with me in a timely manner, and don’t make their dislike so obvious it’s impossible to ignore in other ways. I try to be friendly and professional with everyone, although I’ll reserve coolly polite and professional for those who’ve treated me badly in some way.

    2. Roscoe*

      Why are you surprised anyone is siding with Ted? I fully believe you can invite anyone to your wedding that you want. If he didn’t want to invite her, for whatever reason, that is his choice.

      1. Sleet Feet*

        Because it comes across as bullying to invite everyone but Sally.

        Seriously it’s a classic bully move. You can practically hear the mean kid in the movie announcing in the hall that everyone but dweeb is invited to their party Friday night.

        It’s not what happened here – but without the context we were provided it comes across that way.

        1. Starbuck*

          Right, it looks really bad without context. It’s why he HAS to explain. I imagine the reason there are some people on his side is that clearly someone who would say something so appalling has probably already treated others poorly and they’re wise to her crap.

      2. Littorally*

        You can be fully within your rights and still be an asshole. And absent the very important context involved here, Ted does look like an asshole for inviting everyone except Sally.

        1. Roscoe*

          I don’t even see it as asshole behavior. Again, I’ve not been invited to weddings before. I never thought the people who didn’t invite me were jerks. Just like I’ve had parties and not invited people, even if they were techincally in my friend group.

          I swear, some “adults” really need to stop acting like this is kindergarten where everyone needs to be invited everywhere

          1. allathian*

            Even in kindergarten it’s usually either invite everyone, or invite less than half/a third of the group/class. But it’s not pleasant to be the only one, or only one out of two, who doesn’t get invited.

            1. Despachito*

              But there is a damn good reason for Sally to feel unpleasant. It is not like Ted and OP omitted her on the basis of “I think Sally is much less valuable person than the rest of the team”.

              To omit one member of a group IS a strong statement, and I’d let Sally face the consequences of her behaviour.

      3. generic_username*

        Because he invited everyone from a close-knit group but one person. We know the context, but for everyone else, it looks like he weirdly singled-out and excluded Sally for no reason whatsoever. Obviously you can invite whoever you want to your wedding, but that doesn’t mean people aren’t allowed to feel a certain way about your decisions.

        1. pancakes*

          I fully agree that Ted shouldn’t keep quiet about Sally’s behavior, but I also think it’s a bit much for others in the office to seize upon the idea that he’s being weird or bullying in not inviting her. He’s their friend too. He’s not a stranger. Presumably they know him well enough to know he doesn’t exclude people for no reason, or, worse, because he takes some pleasure in being unkind? This is described as a close-knit group but it seems like people are too reactive to remain close-knit. If I thought a close friend of mine was acting out in some weird way for no apparent reason, I’d talk to them about it.

      4. CBB*

        It is his choice to invite or not invite whomever he wants. But he was slightly naïve not to anticipate that it would greatly amplify the drama already in progress.

        It’s too late now, but I would have advised Ted to invite only 1 or 2 coworkers.

  40. Onion Rings*

    Ted sounds like the class act, honestly. He got slapped with an insanely hurtful revelation after a traumatic accident and still tried to be the bigger person. Who would know what to say in that moment, but I wish he could have had Sally clarify her statement in front of someone else.

    1. FYI*

      I am the lone dissenter here, I guess. Don’t get me wrong — Sally’s comment was unconscionable — but to me it turned into a Faulkner play when Ted persisted in a white lie (venue too small) and refused to just tell the truth. Saying “Sally said X” was the respectful thing to do for everybody.

      1. DrSalty*

        Tbh “blame venue size” is very common advice for couples planning weddings who do not want to invite specific people for whatever reason. It’s bland and hard to argue with.

    2. Casper Lives*

      My comment got eaten. But I don’t see Ted as classy. He’s avoidant of conflict to a fault. That’s more on the cowardly end of the spectrum.

      I feel badly for Ted. Dysfunctional dramatic workplace, badly injured in a car accident, and paralyzed by self-doubt. The guy needs some help.

      I don’t understand why LW isn’t urging him to just tell his supposed friends at work what happened.

      1. JB*

        He’s not avoiding conflict; he’s trying to take on the burden of the broken relationship rather than expose the terrible thing that Sally said.

        It’s not a good choice, but the fault lies in him being compassionate to the point of self-sacrifice, not in cowardice.

        1. Starbuck*

          You’ve just given the definition of avoiding conflict – it’s exactly what he’s doing (or trying to do, since it’s clearly backfired here).

          There’s definitely fear as part of his motivation for avoiding this – “he is convinced that thinks she sees him as a “second tier” man and worries that others do too.” He’s afraid people won’t take his side if they know the truth. It’s a painful thing to think about and expect; I’d be afraid of confronting it if I felt that way.

  41. Former Usher*

    Sally: Thanks for relenting and inviting me to your wedding, Ted. I just wanted to let you know that if the caterer starts to run out of food, I’ll be praying that you go hungry instead of Bob.

    1. Hills to Die on*

      haha I will be praying that if anybody gets sprayed by a skunk while stepping on a lego that day, that it’s you and not Bob. I mean, he IS practically a saint.

    2. Jennifer*

      If the chandelier over the dance floor crashes and has to land on someone, I hope it’s you and not Bob. Amen and Hallelujah!

    3. I Wrote This in the Bathroom*

      At this point, I am kind of worried that Sally would come to the wedding dressed in all black and put a spell on Ted, Sleeping Beauty-like. Don’t take up knitting, Ted.

      1. Jennifer*

        Maybe she can hook up with the lady from the other letter a while back who was putting black magic spells on people. They’d make quite the duo.

    4. I edit everything*

      Sally to husband: Hey, honey, Ted finally invited us to his wedding. You know, I’ve heard that place is very fire prone. Maybe you should up your life insurance. I’m going to warn Bob…

  42. Norco4Lyfe*

    I currently take a lot of painkillers for chronic conditions AND did a lot of illegal drugs in my wild youth AND have the social grace and skills of a feral cat and would never have said such a thing to someone’s face.

    3. Eldritch Office Worker*

      Alison starts a feral cat shelter. Is confused but resigned when commenters show up, steal the blankets, and start whining for free snacks with extra guacamole.

    4. KoiFeeder*

      A fellow! Let us sit in separate boxes six feet apart and stare at each other menacingly. This is bonding.

      1. Empress Matilda*

        I would like a box as well, but I will sit with my back to you both in order to show my disdain for the entire process.

        2. Your Local Password Resetter*

          Do make sure that people are watching you, and paying attention to you not paying attention to them.

  43. Littorally*

    Oh boy. Oh boy.

    In Ted’s position (and yours, OP!) I wouldn’t freakin want Sally at my wedding either. What is wrong with her? That is definitely the kind of thing you keep very, very, very much to yourself. (Frankly, that is the kind of thing you don’t do to start with unless you’re very not okay in some way, but that’s my theological side talking, not my etiquette side.)

    Ted’s reluctance to admit what Sally told him is really putting him in a bad position here. I have to admit, my slightly vengeful instinct is for him to simply say “well, Sally told me she prayed for me to die after that accident” and not admit to the qualification she gave, because — honestly, it doesn’t make things better! But that’s likely to escalate the drama even more, even if it does clear his name.

    Frankly, I don’t see a way out of the drama. You and Ted are right in this situation, albeit you did choose the most dramatic of the options within your rights. The hurt feelings are not going to go away and admitting Sally to your wedding, not because anything is resolved but only because it turned the workplace into a battleground, is only going to make the wedding feel worse for you. “Ah yes, our pictures of our special day, which included the nutball who prayed for Ted to die.”

    Now, I’m a religious person. I take those prayers of Sally’s very seriously; I would refuse to work with someone who admitted such a thing to me, and I would make a very serious stink about it. I don’t know how strongly you and Ted feel with regard to the potential efficacy of those prayers; it sounds like Ted may be taking it more as a commentary on his value as a person and less as an actual attempt to do him harm. In either case, “person who prayed for my death” = “person who is not invited to my wedding” is the most reasonable stance in the world. It’s the pointed snub (inviting everyone else) combined with the refusal to admit why that is causing the drama.

    1. cmcinnyc*

      ““person who prayed for my death” = “person who is not invited to my wedding”
      This goes in an email to the team. Bonus points if her love of Bob is slathered all over it. Sally, you broke it, you bought it.

    3. Sal*

      I love the idea of making her defend herself by saying, “No, no, it was only if God had to choose between him and Bob that I prayed that God chose Bob and let Ted die.” Like those posts I so enjoy reading where the person who wrote in (here or AITA) is the oblivious one.

    4. tangerineRose*

      I’d probably tell them exactly what she said. It’s awful enough all by itself. I can kind of picture someone in a lot of stress thinking some odd things like “at least save Bob” in a prayer, but I can’t understand how that person would ever say so, especially to the other person.

    5. Mona-Lisa Saperstein*

      “It’s the pointed snub (inviting everyone else) combined with the refusal to admit why that is causing the drama.”

      Exactly. What Ted/LW seem to be missing is that, even if it was true that the venue capped them and they had to cut two people from the list because of that, it doesn’t explain why they chose to cut Sally *specifically* instead of any/all of the other coworkers. The only way out is to tell the truth.

    1. American Job Venter*

      BTW, I send sympathy and strength for dealing with the miscreants who inspired your username.

  46. ElizabethJane*

    Ted must be a better person than I am as I’d drag Sally through the mud for this. Why, after she did something horrible, does he feel the need to protect her reputation? “Sally prayed for my death” is a valid reason to not include her in wedding festivities.

  47. MattedTatted*

    I need an update. I’d go to Sally & explain my view. Then I’d ask HER to share with the group. If she refuses, I’d tactfully say to the group that Sally shared something that made me question our friendship/working relationship & they’re free to ask her what she said. Then send them to her. If she still won’t admit it, she looks like TA. And give your manager a heads up. If Sally has other “quirks” (since usually these are people who continually have no filter), it might be time for a sit down anyways. And if she’s really being a jerk, HR may be your next step. Pretty sure wishing someone dead is against the rules….

    1. The New Normal*

      Frankly, if he tells Sally to fess up first, I bet she digs deeper and tells everyone he is lying and making up a story. I think it’s time for HR to be involved.

  48. Detective Amy Santiago*

    My suggestion is that Ted sit down with Sally and tell her that she knows exactly why she wasn’t invited to the wedding and unless she takes responsibility for what she said to the other coworkers (not necessarily in specifics, but acknowledges that she said something she shouldn’t have and rightfully upset Ted and LW) that he’s going to tell them exactly what he said and why she wasn’t invited.

    That being said, I think the best solution would have been not to invite any coworkers, but that ship has sailed.

    1. STG*

      I like this idea. Go to Sally directly, explain why and let her handle the coworkers. I’d be clear though that she needs to clear up the work drama before I got involved. She caused it. Let her fall on the sword to fix it.

      I didn’t invite any coworkers to my wedding either. I don’t want my coworkers to be involved in such a personal life event.

  49. Donna*

    Sally is a real asshole. Setting aside that that’s just not how prayer works AND that there are some thoughts you should keep to yourself, she’s letting the whole office shun Ted KNOWING exactly why she didn’t get invited to the wedding. She should not have been shocked by the lack of invitation and maybe she was embarrassed about it, but the fact that she’s letting this go on makes it that much worse. If she wasn’t going to apologize to Ted for her past behavior, she should have kept it to herself when she didn’t get invited to the wedding.

    1. tangerineRose*

      Someone who is clueless enough to tell someone what she told Ted might not understand that Ted was hurt by this. She sounds like she’s pretty wrapped up in herself.

  50. The New Normal*

    What Sally said was a reflection on her status as banana crackers. Like legitimately banana crackers. There is really no good reason for ANYONE to EVER admit to another person that they prayed for their death. If she was on ambien or drugs or off drugs, that’s still not a good reason, but it is an explanation. Either way, Ted needs to focus more on the fact that Sally is clearly cuckoo for cocoa puffs and this reflects on her, not him. It literally has nothing to do with him. If it had been any other person or female from the team or boss, Sally would still have prayed for Bob to live and the other to die. Ted wasn’t personally chosen. And I hope Ted focuses on that. It seems like he needs some therapy for that.

    But really, Ted needs to clear the air with Sally and the team. He can easily explain that he didn’t want to cause Sally further problems by telling everyone what happened, but he cannot put up with the lies and gossip anymore so he needs to be honest about why she isn’t welcome at his wedding. He still has a professional, cordial relationship because he’s a mature adult, but he also recognizes that she isn’t his friend and actively prayed for his death so no, she can’t come to his wedding.

  51. Jennifer*

    I agree. This is a huge mess. Why did Sally think that one person would have to die? Where is that in the Bible? And then why say something after you did something so horrible?

    I totally get why you wouldn’t want Sally at your wedding. However, Alison is right. You can’t invite the entire office except for one person. That is going to inevitably cause drama, especially if no one knows the reason why. Like many of the problems people write in about, this could have been resolved by having an uncomfortable conversation. I get that Ted was in shock after Sally’s initial remarks, but when he calmed down he could have taken her to the side and told her how hurtful the remark really was. Maybe then the lack of invitation wouldn’t have come as a surprise.

    At this point, I think Ted just has to tell people the reason why Sally was excluded and let the chips fall where they may. But definitely don’t invite this woman to your wedding. You want people there that wish you well and haven’t prayed for you to die. That’s straight from Emily Post.

    It’s also weird that the office is divided by gender on this. I’m sure there’s a story there too.

  52. Pikachu*

    I do wonder, if Ted comes clean, how this will impact Bob’s working relationship with everyone else. I would be mortified to learn that I work with someone who is so dazzled by my presence that she would pray for my best friend’s death and then TELL THEM about it.

    I don’t see a functional team emerging from this.

      1. Boof*

        Eh, I think the context adds something, she didn’t really pray for his death so much as give him a rank order of whose life she values most, for no reason, after he’d been through some serious trauma. And it wasn’t him. Seriously crappy thing to do and I think most people would be aghast, but it’s not quite the same as wanted him to die.

        1. Loulou*

          Right, “prayed for my death” is not really accurate. The truth with full context is more than bad enough!

    2. Your Local Password Resetter*

      I’m not sure if they were a functional team before this, and they definitely aren’t now. So not much to lose in that regard.

      1. quill*

        Ted and Bob both need out.

        I’m guessing that part of Ted’s reasoning (emotionally, if not consciously) was also to protect Bob from the WTF badness. If you can just pretend it never happened, bob doesn’t need to know, ted doesn’t need to validate if the rest of the team *secretly hates him* or deal with Sally’s drama, things can go back to normal!**

        *It’s not at all uncommon for people who have their trust in a relationship yanked out from under them to wonder if it’s going to happen with everyone else
        ** spoiler: it won’t.

  53. Not A Manager*

    @OP – I think this goes much deeper than the drama with the team. Ted’s response to Sally’s “confession” is deeply troubling. In reality, Sally was wildly out of line. Ted could have dismissed her comment, he could have angrily informed the entire office about it, he could have had a calm conversation with his best friend – there are a lot of options when someone behaves like a complete loon to you.

    But internalize their comment to the point that you can’t discuss it with others, *even* when not discussing it makes YOU look like you are seriously misbehaving… this is not safe or good for Ted.

    Sort out the wedding any way you like. You’ve gotten good suggestions on here. But also, for real, encourage Ted to seriously sort out how on earth he got into this pickle. Sally is an ass, but it’s Ted’s reaction that has caused him the most harm.

    1. FYI*

      ^^^^ THIS ^^^^

      Maybe I have dealt with more than my fair share of Sallys in my life, but keeping secrets is NOT the way to handle people like this.

    3. tamarack and fireweed*

      Yeah. I went back to re-read the letter. The whole intro, “All the team members and spouses/partners socialize outside of work together as well, and we consider them all to be close friends” kinda clashes with no one else knowing about this rather big issue. Someone needs to clear the air, probably in an after-work setting.

      Also, I can be terribly insecure, too, and understand the fear of realizing that the whole groups agrees that “if one of them has to die, it should be Ted” is a reasonable, as is offering Ted as a sacrifice to an imaginary god. It would be devastating to realize. However, it wouldn’t make it in any way true – it would just mean that the whole friend group really really sucks.

  54. AnonaLlama*

    I’m not sure I’d open up for discussion or debate this bananas “confession”. It’s so absurd it needs to not be spoken of.
    Instead, I’d do the following:
    First make sure Sally is aware of why you didn’t invite her. “Sally, I’m not sure why you’re not connecting the dots here but after the accident you told me you prayed I would die if one person had to. Not only is that a very strange thought to have, it was cruel of you to share it with me. This is why you are not invited to our wedding.”

    Then, “Team- I have been trying to be respectful of Sally publicly, but Sally is aware of why we did not invite her to our wedding and that is not going to change, nor is it open for discussion. We would still love to see the rest of the team there but understand if you cannot come for whatever reason. Please just RSVP so we can plan. Regardless, can we all move past this and get back to herding these llamas? “

      1. Sal*

        Although I am petty, I am also habitually and historically affirmatively uninterested in seeking out work gossip (even to my detriment), and I nevertheless feel that I might die of curiosity under these circumstances if I were another member of the team. Literally die.

        1. JelloStapler*

          This doesn’t keep Sally for telling everyone whatever story she cooked up. IMO, I’d say she said something very hurtful.

    4. Purely Allegorical*

      I like the respect in this script, but the problem I see is that Sally is going to warp her version of the story when people inevitably approach her about it. If Ted uses this script, he needs to be prepared for that — and prepared that Sally might choose to go on the offensive about it. It could leave him in a quite exposed position at work, where things only continue to escalate and everyone ends up in front of HR.

      If Ted wants to preserve Sally’s privacy/dignity here, then he needs to start job hunting. So long as he looks like the bad guy, his work life will suffer.

  55. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

    I just never understand people who keep truth a secret to protect the guilty, especially at their own expense. The minute the other team members started to think Ted is just being a jerk to Sally, and I’m sure the others noticed something was up even before the wedding, Ted should have said something about Sally’s comment.

    Tell them now, stick to the plan not to invite her, let the other adults decide what they want to do with that information even if they don’t attend the wedding — more room for better friends in my opinion, and address work issues at work — if Sally and the other women are making it difficult for the work to get done, tell the management.

    1. Lacey*

      Yes, that’s such a strange impulse. Usually I see it with people who are in toxic or abusive relationships.

      I do sometimes see it with people who just think any kind of acknowledgement of wrong-doing by someone else is gossip… which often leads to a whole slew of toxic relationships.

      But, I’ve never been burdened by that particular issue myself. I’m much more likely to start an entire youtube channel about the ways in which So & So wronged me than to hide it.

    2. Aggretsuko*

      Well, I kept it a secret that I was being bullied because I was afraid I’d get in worse trouble and piss her off more if it was out in the open. However, she started screaming at me in public and tattling to the boss and well, forced my hand on that one.

      I can understand Ted wanting to try to keep it professional and not blabbing that horrible shit to the entire office. God knows it’s not appropriate and I have no idea how his manager/HR would behave about it. Unfortunately, this wedding thing really forced his hand and I think he has to tell now.

  56. Rusty Shackelford*

    Ted is the victim here, and he needs to wear that proudly. I think he should tell his coworkers “Look, I didn’t want to say anything, because I’ve liked and respected Sally for a long time and didn’t want you to think badly of her. But she told me that when Bob and I were in that wreck, she prayed that if one of us died, it would be me. I don’t think I have to tell you how much that hurt. So yeah, I don’t feel comfortable asking her to celebrate my wedding. And I regret not tell you sooner.”

    6. Susie Q*

      This is it! LW, please suggest this to your finace. It will spell it out very clearly to everyone. Then, if anyone thinks Sally should still be invited, then you know who to stop inviting to other outings.

    7. Former Young Lady*

      Please, God, if I can have just one person script my life, let it be Rusty here?

      Seriously, this is so dang good!

      1. Gumby*

        This is extremely hurtful to all of the other posters for whom scripting your life is key to their survival. I just don’t know why you have to choose favorites and are introducing this drama. You are certainly not invited to MY wedding. /s
        .
        .
        .
        .
        No really, totally kidding here. Pretty sure you were posting the whole “just one person” part on purpose, but now am paranoid.

    8. Casper Lives*

      This is a great response. I’m frustrated that Ted and LW think they’re in a Hallmark movie, where the plot requires no one to communicate. You’re much more levelheaded than me rolling my eyes.

      Sally is awful. Ted is protecting her to the point LW checked to see if she could be invited. Instead of communicating, they’ll invite a woman who wished death on one of the couple to the vows of matrimony.

      How dysfunctional is LW and Ted’s thinking? Yowza, EVERYONE is behaving irrationally.

      1. Insert Clever Name Here*

        That’s pretty harsh to OP and Ted. I generally don’t like going around telling people the hurtful things someone has told me that make me wonder if I’m a lower tier person than others, so it’s pretty understandable why Ted would initially not do that.

    12. HR Ninja*

      100%! Ted owes no favors to Sally, but this is a very respectful way of letting people 1) know why she wasn’t invited to the wedding and 2) what type of person she is.

    13. Allywood*

      This is perfect. Its succinct and straight to the point. If anyone tries to excuse that, then I’d definitely reevaluate my personal relationship with them.

    15. Deanna Troi*

      What Rusty Shackelford wrote is perfect! After the phrase “it would be me,” I would add “She also said that I had to admit that I don’t measure up to Bob as a person.”

    18. Jean (just Jean)*

      Yes indeed! Simple, honest, owns his experience (uses “I” language), and doesn’t add more blame. Maximum dignity for all involved. If people howl in reaction, Ted can calmly say that he has enjoyed working with everyone and looks forward to continuing the collective good work. This will be true whether he stays at this job for another X years or moves on 2 weeks after his wedding.

  57. I edit everything*

    Can you imagine being *Bob* when Ted tells everyone what Sally said? I suspect that will ruin his relationship with Sally, too. Like, WTF, lady?

    1. After 33 years ...*

      Yes.
      I generally have a low opinion of someone who tells me that I’m more valuable than somebody else at my workplace – let alone what I’d feel if anyone except my life partner said “I’d rather they died than you”.
      I’d almost rather Ted spoke to Bob privately, at least first, instead of the group statement.
      Sending love to Ted and LW!

    2. Susie Q*

      That would karma-tic justice. Then everyone will know Sally has marriage issues and needs money. Maybe she will be so embarrassed that she would quit, but then Ted would probably get blamed for that, too!

    3. I've been Ted*

      Nah. In a workplace this dysfunctional, I wouldn’t count on Bob. He’s already shown extremely poor boundaries and may even be glorying in Sally’s hero worship.

  58. SushiRoll*

    OP please don’t invite this nut to your wedding under any circumstance. Tell your fiancé to stop hurting himself and tell everyone at work what happened.

    He must be a much nicer person than me, because I can think of at least four coworkers I would have IMMEDIATELY told if something like that happened to me at work. lol. Like as “omg did you believe wtf Sally just said to me? What is her problem?”

    I hope the update is that Sally quits.

  59. CatCat*

    Just tell Sally, “I prayed that if God had to let one member of the team miss the wedding, I hoped it would be her.”

    I mean don’t do that in reality. BUT DO IT IN YOUR MIND.

    4. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

      Winner! And also go into detail about why the other team members are truly better people on a higher level and she just can’t measure up. I suspect Sally knows exactly why she isn’t invited and she went on the offensive early to preempt anything Ted says to the group. In fact this is probably “proof” in her mind that she made the right call in praying for him to die!!! because Saint Bob would totally be understanding and forgiving — I mean, she DID say NO OFFENSE, and everyone knows you can’t be offended after that! (sarcasm)

  60. Grandma Mazur*

    I have never wanted an update to a letter so badly in all the years I’ve been reading posts on this site.

  62. Junebug*

    I would take this whole thing as a SERIOUS warning about Ted’s mental health. Sally is obviously a nut (or worse), but the fact that Ted didn’t immediately see that and thinks the other team members agree with her (!!!) make me think he’s very vulnerable and needs help.

    1. Former Young Lady*

      Nah, bullies do this, and it’s super normal for it to get inside the target’s head.

      If you’re a normal person who does NOT go out of your way to express every sick, hurtful thought you’ve ever had, it can totally throw you when you meet someone who operates that way. Why would they tell you these things unless you were truly awful, right?

      That’s the thing about manipulative cruelty. It’s effective on kind people because there’s nothing like it in their playbook.

      1. quill*

        Ted trusted Sally. She destroyed that trust with a bazooka right when he was recovering from a serious injury. Frankly, being unsettled and unsure is natural.

  63. morelor*

    Why would someone say that to another person? WE all think things, but that doesn’t mean we need to verbalize them. Especially in this case, to the person they were hoping would die, if it meant the other coworker would live. There is no situation in which this doesn’t become weird. So weird.

  64. flour*

    Was Sally, per chance, an influential person on the team? She could look terrible on paper but still be a queen bee in real life, and one simply doesn’t mess with a queen bee without facing something like this.

    Plus, my experience is someone who’s an oversharer (it was NOT necessary for Sally to tell LW’s husband her confession–get a journal!) just thrives on self-inflicted drama and is determined to come out looking like the one who’s bern wronged instead of doind some serious self-introspection. Unfortunately there’s just no winning in this situation.

    1. Blllllpt*

      This was my thought as well. Yes he can and probably should tell people what happened but people like Sally aren’t stupid, they’re calculating and smart and know how to manipulate people to take their side. Remember odd girl out? Obviously that was an extreme but Sally will find a way to look like the wronged party no matter what Ted says, and she’ll have some loyal followers too.

      I’m not about high school esque work places. Sounds exhausting.

  65. XF1013*

    My favorite little bit of weirdness in this letter, lost amid all of the other all-caps WEIRDNESS: Bob is a “saint” merely because he loaned Sally some cash and gave her some advice. That’s a drastically low bar for sainthood. Maybe Ted just needs to help fix the printer or make a pot of coffee or something so he can edge past Bob in Sally’s sainthood sweepstakes.

  66. Puzzled*

    I would argue no coworkers should be invited to the wedding. This is some weird ass place and everyone is way too invested in everyone’s private business. This is like a dysfunctional family that would benefit from being broken up.

    1. Nia*

      Agreed. I’d take the opportunity to uninvite the rest of them. Does the LW really want these people there reminding her of all this nonsense on her wedding day?

    2. Anonymous Koala*

      Right? Letters like this are why I’m deeply suspicious of any workplace that uses the word “family” to describe the culture. OP, Alison’s advice is spot on, but maybe it’s also time for Ted to take a critical look at his satisfaction with this workplace? One person shouldn’t be able to derail a whole team’s work just because they weren’t invited to a wedding. This isn’t high school.

  67. Naomi*

    It’s not fair to blame religion for this.
    – I doubt Sally’s religion limits the number of people you’re allowed to pray for.
    – Even if it did, she definitely didn’t need to tell Ted that.
    – If you replace the word “prayed” with “hoped” (“I hoped that you and not Bob would be the one to die”), it’s still an awful thing to say, especially to a friend.

    2. Albeira Dawn*

      Starting a new religion that forces you to rank everyone you know even tangentially and depending on the situation there will be a maximum number of people you can wish good things for

  68. AngryOwl*

    Normally I agree about inviting “all/none/etc” in situations like this, but Sally *told him she prayed he’d die*. I mean. No. Normal etiquette rules fly out the window here and have absolutely no place.

    The only thing LW & Ted did “wrong” was not tell people right away what Sally said. Inform them, be clear with her about why she’s not invited, and hold strong. Your wedding is about you, not this whackadoo.

  69. Someone On-Line*

    I volunteer to send an anonymous link to this letter to everyone at the company. I need resolution here. Ted needs vindication. WTF.

  70. Susie Q*

    I am solidly in the camp to tell everyone what Sally said (in a big group with Sally present). She knows why Ted did not invite her. You can’t tell someone you prayed for their death (because another coworker gives better advice and loans money!!!) and then expect to be invited to their wedding!! She has no problem with Ted dying but thinks she’s entitled to his ceremony and hospitality??? This makes me made. Sally needs to check herself.

    2. RandomUser*

      Was starting to wonder if I was the only one who immediately thought “Sally is having an affair with Bob” — especially with the comment that he’s helping her through her marriage troubles.

        1. Junebug*

          Oooooooh that’s possible. Maybe that would explain why the men in the office are standing by Ted? Because she’s been making Bob uncomfortable.

    3. CBB*

      As long as we’re speculating: this affair is occurring entirely in Sally’s imagination. Bob has no idea.

  72. Belle of the Midwest*

    Frankly, I wouldn’t want Sally at my wedding either. No telling what bizarre, inappropriate thing she is liable to say or do in front of your guests or the wedding party.

    She crossed a line with her comment to Ted and with that action comes consequences. I think he needs to tell the rest of the work team what happened and why she is not welcome. Unless they are as bananacrackers as she is, I think they will understand. If they don’t, well, fie on them.

  73. Albeira Dawn*

    Okay, here’s the thing. “Taking the high road,” as Ted might think of himself as doing, only works when people can see the difference in elevation. I know this goes counter to the “you shouldn’t need people to see what you’re doing in order to do good things” but clearly that backfired. I imagine that Ted sees two roads ahead: the high road, which ends in a big ravine that he can’t see but preserves Sally’s reputation, and the low road, which involves a lot of smaller obstacles that are much more obvious from his vantage point.
    What we, the audience, are seeing is Ted climbing into a big ravine instead of stepping over some decent sized but manageable logs.
    The women on his team are seeing Ted shoving Sally into the ravine, and can’t even see any logs.

    We can understand Ted’s perspective a little bit because we at least can see the two options, but his team, again, just sees a giant ravine appear out of nowhere. Ted has to show them the other road (tell them the buckwild thing Sally said).

    I’ve been struggling for 20 minutes to string together my reaction to this letter and have landed on this very complicated metaphor which I don’t think helps. But let it add to the chorus of “OH MY GOD JUST TELL THEM”.

  74. Dr B Crusher*

    Sally is unhinged. Pray for whatever looney thing you want, but why would you ever tell someone something like that?

  75. Alexis Rosay*

    Sadly these ‘social’ decisions do have consequences at work. I didn’t invite any of my coworkers to my wedding, in a workplace that was toxic but thought it had a ‘family’ vibe. Coworkers responded by not ever acknowledging that I was getting married–everyone else got a card/lunch celebrating their life event except for me.

    Oh well. That was worth it. I got to celebrate surrounded by people I loved, who did not remind me of the worse part of my life right then. Ted deserves the same. But he needs to be up front with folks who don’t understand his decision.

    1. datamuse*

      I like my co-workers fine but none of them were guests at my wedding; we don’t have that kind of relationship. While I sometimes wish we were a somewhat tighter-knit department, it is what it is, and at least drama is minimal.

      1. allathian*

        I also like my coworkers just fine, but it’d never occur to me to invite any of them to any of my significant life events, we don’t have that kind of relationship. And I like it just fine, there’s a marked lack of drama, and most especially now that we’re still WFH.

  76. Bex*

    I think there’s a lot of good advice here for Ted, but Ted didn’t write the letter. Letter Writer, I think it was a kind and supportive move for you to contact the venue to find out if adding Sally and her husband to the guest list is an option, but the question of whether to actually invite them should be up to Ted. Parts of your letter sound as though you’re trying to solve this for Ted or on his behalf, and I don’t think that’s the best plan. It’s your wedding, too, of course, and if you weren’t willing to have Sally there you could say that. But otherwise, this is really an issue between Ted and his co-workers, the final decision will primarily affect him and his work relationships, and so he needs to go with what he thinks is the best option. If he leans a lot on you to choose how to handle this, I’d suggest asking questions to help him get at what he actually wants. All the more so because you say he lacks confidence! Whether he’s putting you in the role of his problem solver or you’re taking it on (because you’re used to it, because weddings, whatever), please remember he has both the right and the responsibility to make this choice.

  77. I edit everything*

    I feel for Ted. It’s got to be just stunning to hear that someone doesn’t think you’re as worthy of life as a friend and coworker. And hearing that coming off what sounds like a very serious accident and recovery, when you’re probably already still a little off kilter, makes it extra hard. I kinda want to give him a socially distanced hug.
    I think sharing what Sally said will help with his “does everyone think this?” worry. Their horrified reactions should be reassuring.

  78. Boof*

    “hello coworker! Here is my rank order list of coworkers in order of ‘who I would sacrifice so that the others may live’. I think you’ll agree you belong in the middle here. No hard feelings, this is a totally reasonable thing. Drinks friday?”
    WTF
    At this point I think the only way out is through – tell Sally and tell the team what went down, and decide if it’s worth expanding or contracting your venue based on what YOU want, not what the team wants.

    2. Eldritch Office Worker*

      Seriously. We all know to keep our descending list of sacrificial coworkers taped to the backs of our monitors like normal people.

      1. The Prettiest Curse*

        Ah, so that’s why I keep finding random list of names about the place now that my office is hot-desking…

  79. TiredMama*

    I hope Ted talks to Sally and explains why he didn’t want to invite her to the wedding and then explains it to everyone else. And I really hope we get an update.

  80. B Wayne*

    My two cents are after the honeymoon I suggest Ted look for a job that doesn’t mimic a junior high school girls clique. After the amount of time Ted has spent with the one employer and the one group, perhaps it is time to see what he is worth in the market.

    1. Candi*

      One thing that’s been discussed in the past is the only way to get a good pay raise is to switch companies. If Ted’s been at his current one for 10+ years, and he’s up on the most current whatever for his field, he could probably get a nice pay increase by jumping companies.

      1. Candi*

        Addendum: It’s also been discussed that it’s really rather sad that you can get a bigger pay increase by switching companies then campaigning for a raise at the one you’re currently at.

  81. Lady_Lessa*

    I am one who prays, but would NEVER, ever dream of that kind of prayer. (If I were upset about a situation, I might read some of the nastier Psalms, though). I wouldn’t think of saying anything aloud.

    In Ted’s situation, I would consider talking things over with their manager, do it off site so that no one else knows that they are talking. This assumes that she is a good reasonable person, and one who would take action to help the team start working together better.

    IF she were not, I would be tempted to have Ted spill the beans on what Sally said. It probably couldn’t make things worse.

    1. Regina Phalange*

      And like…if you are the praying kind, why would you not pray for God to save them BOTH?? No one told her she had to choose! She fully made that up! It’s so weird.

      1. Candi*

        Yeah, in the Bible trying to bargain with God or stick conditions on him just ticks him off. Whether God is the only existing God or not (I have questions about that), he’s a powerful being in the Christian context, and across religion and mythology, powerful beings generally don’t like being told what to do, especially where life and death are concerned. Again, in my reading of religion and mythology, wishing bad things on other people tends to only be permitted when the person/people are special to the god in some way -not just anyone can get away with it. (It’s not 100%, though.)

        If God/gods don’t exist, and prayer is mostly a form of mediation or concentrating on sending intense feelings at someone, why the bleeding bloody F would you wish for someone to die?

        Either way, it’s beyond cruel.

  82. Ginger Baker*

    I 100% agree with all the comments that Ted should ASAP tell the team what Sally (shockingly!!!) said to him. I want to address something that maybe will be a helpful reminder: I get that Ted has a ton of brain weasels going “omg maybe I AM a Lesser Man and Not Worthy and Bob is So Much Better” and well, that sucks and it’s difficult to deal with. But I would like to offer a reminder that *even if* Bob is literally a reincarnated SAINT and no human could possibly hope to compete, the takeaway from telling the team will not be “well, yeah, obvs we should get to keep Bob” for the simple reason that they are going to be OVERWHELMED with “OMFG WHAT, why would ANYONE say that?!?!” and well to be brutally honest, once the team hears this one thing they will know for absolute sure is that if there is some weird objective Human Grading System, Ted beats out Sally by light years. Ted: whatever failings you may feel you have in life, however valid those fears might even be, you can take serious comfort in the fact that you NEVER, not even ONCE, told someone you prayed for them to die and btw it’s just because obvs they just don’t win a Best Human Award (which this person who clearly lost touch with reasonable societal norms in every possible way is in NO position to judge but I digress).

    1. librarianmom*

      Not only did Ted not tell someone he prayed for them to die, he kept that information to himself, even in the face of others freezing him out. I think he should look Sally in the eye in front of everyone and say “You KNOW why you weren’t invited to my wedding.” If she doesn’t fess up then spill the beans.

  83. Caroline Bowman*

    ”So what you’re saying Sally, is that if I’d given you money and possibly marriage counselling while at work, you’d have prayed for me to live too?”. Sally is an example of why I cannot with religious ”I’m praying for you” types. It’s the delusional nature of it ”I’ve asked God to sacrifice this one or do that thing and if He does, well, then I’ll eat all my vegetables/ never smoke crack again / WTFE”.

    Sally is a glassbowl. Ted needs, urgently to stop covering for her. The next time any of the women do or say anything that alludes to his having been So Awful Mean to Poor Dear Sally, he should tell them what Sally said, loudly and in short sentences. Then he should go ahead and have the most wonderful wedding, surrounded by sane, decent people who care about him and don’t give a rat’s butt about hateful people like Sally.

  84. CatPerson*

    You do not, and you should not, invite this horrible person to your wedding, whether you invite everyone else or not. This is a day for happiness and celebration. And Ted is well within his rights to tell the entire team why you made this decision. Yes, that may create more drama, but Ted doesn’t deserve the drama that Sally and the others created for him. If the others boycott the wedding anyway, then, well, Ted has learned something about them that he didn’t know before. But this is not Ted’s fault. He shouldn’t lose confidence over this–Sally was wrong to think this, she was wrong to say it to Ted’s face, and she is wrong not to own the outcome.

    I am sincerely sorry for you that this drama has the potential to dampen your day. Please don’t let it. Congratulations to both of you, I wish you many years of happiness together.

  85. Mental Lentil*

    Do NOT invite Sally to the wedding.

    She’s a drama queen. Imagine what she will be like at the wedding, or at the reception after a few drinks.

    1. The Rural Juror*

      “Why are we even celebrating Ted? Let’s have a toast for Bob! Everyone! For he’s a jolly good fellow…”

  86. MinArlington*

    Just me, but I would gather the whole team together plus manager(s) and HR and say “since this has blown up into high school drama, I feel it’s time to stop protecting Sally and let you all know the real reason I did not invite her to my wedding. She, for reasons I’ll never understand, felt the need to pull me aside after I almost died to tell me that she prayed for me to die so Bob could live, and went on to detail all the ways I don’t measure up to Bob. Any of you who feel the same, or feel that her actions were anything other than despicable, can also give my wedding a miss.” She absolutely does not deserve his continued protection via this “the venue’s too small” excuse.

  87. Akcipitrokulo*

    Tell them.

    TELL THEM.

    Seriously. Drama is unavoidable at this point. So make it the true story.

    Also give Bob a preview. He deserves to know. Hey, he may even be able to help handle it.

  88. hmmmmmmmmmmmm*

    This is an occasion where sharing information is in Ted’s favor. Ideally he would’ve done it when the female coworkers first approached him. Now? Ay yay yay.

    I feel like the best, most sane approach here would actually be for Ted to loop in the manager now, not later. Especially since Ted is the *only* one with the entire context, and is easily the most blameless person involved. If he knows his manager is generally a sane human being, he should go to her, perhaps with a tone something like “I need your input on how to fix this situation, since it’s starting to affect our work.” Lay out the whole truth–and Ted should definitely mention that part of why he’s not addressed this before is his interpretation that Sally just had a…unique reaction to the upsetting nature of the accident Ted and Bob were in. Ted probably should’ve been more proactive about this, years ago, but that doesn’t mean he was wrong to choose to let it be, and pick the kindest interpretation of Sally he could. And all that said, he’s *still* completely justified in not inviting her to his wedding. Ted approaching his manager with this before it truly explodes in the manager’s face is going to make Ted come off as well as he ought to, in this situation.

    And, ideally, the manager would respond by calling Sally in, grilling her on the situation, and telling her and the other female coworkers in no uncertain terms to stop taking your wedding guest list so goddamn personally, but to tell Sally in particular that she needs to stop encouraging the others. That might be a lot to ask of a historically hands-off manager, but.

    I think second-best is Alison’s suggestion, but Ted should be careful about how he puts it and how he directs the conversation, since the female coworkers are biased towards Sally, at this point.

    Honestly, I’d also be tempted, if I were body-swapped with Ted, to ask Sally to meet privately and just…tell her why she wasn’t invited. “I don’t know if you remember, but years ago, when I almost died in a car accident, you said x. I know this wasn’t your intent, but you…basically told me you prayed for me to die. It hurt me a lot, at the time. Now–please let me finish [because of course this is when she’ll interrupt]–I believe your actions were caused by stress, and I have chosen to not share my hurt with you because I believe you’re a kind human being at heart, who cares for me. However, you prayed for my death; that is what you said, and that is what I heard. I am getting married. I hope you understand that, as much as I care for you, I simply cannot invite you to my wedding. As I’ve said, our guest list is limited, and we needed it to be full of people who we know whole-heartedly support us. You have shown me that you cannot always support me, and you did it in a way that was hurtful. I hope you understand that it is simply impossible for you to be at my wedding.” And then Ted just repeats “I’m sorry, but it’s impossible to invite you to my wedding” to anything Sally says.

      1. hmmmmmmmmmmmm*

        Ohhhhh my god, I totally misread that.

        I cannot IMAGINE saying what Sally said to someone…well, at all, but doing it and ALSO thinking we’re close enough for me to attend their wedding. Sally made it pretty damn clear that she doesn’t feel close to Ted in some fundamental way, so why would he consider her close enough to *him* to merit being on the guest list?

    2. tangerineRose*

      I wouldn’t give Sally a heads-up on this. Just tell the group when she’s there so she’ll have less time to prepare a story.

      1. hmmmmmmmmmmmm*

        I was actually sorely tempted to suggest he just air it all to the whole team, but I’m a fan of What We Do in the Shadows, and there’s an episode where an “energy vampire” (feeds on emotions) does something similar in her workplace, where she just…announces that she’s broken up with her boyfriend (another coworker) to the entire office, specifically so she can feed off of the awkwardness of the situation.

        Not that a vampire comedy TV show has any bearing on real life, but Ted sounds like he’s really sensitive to the feelings of others. As someone who’s similar, I don’t think I could make myself stand in front of 10 people, explain something as horrible and weird as this, and then have to handle dealing with all of their emotions, all at the same time. It’s one thing to psych yourself up for an awkward one-on-one, a whole other to psych yourself up to drop a bomb on the team.

        Although, if Ted did want to do this, I’d still err towards thinking he should talk to the manager first. Even if the manager doesn’t want to do anything, and he still decides to just tell everyone what’s really happening, it’ll make him come off better in the long run if his boss deals with any fallout already knowing that Ted is the person in the right, here. (I envision a horrible scenario where Ted is brought in and scolded for “making things awkward in the office.” Which, hopefully that would never happen, but Ted doesn’t need extra bullshit piled on top of this.)

  89. Hiring Mgr*

    i’m confused why Ted just doesn’t tell people why Sally wasn’t invited… Does Sally even know? Ted may not want to discuss it, but if he doesn’t he’ll be the fall guy deservedly or not

  90. The Smiling Pug*

    The llamas are running away from Sally as fast they can, because of all the drama she’s causing. O.o
    Please don’t invite her to the wedding.

  91. Hiring Mgr*

    Just wondering – does God ever have to make these types of decisions? If he’s hearing the prayer, at that point couldn’t he just save both?

      2. Hiring Mgr*

        You mean Bob and Ted? Yes i see where you’re going with this.. they may have become so close with the shared trauma, recovery etc..

    2. mreasy*

      Yeah wouldn’t He be like…do you really think I can’t save both of your friends? Have you heard of me before?

    3. Lizy*

      Totally derailing, but technically God doesn’t have to make these decisions at all, because He’s already aware of what will happen and He’s just waiting on whoever to come to Him for help/comfort. We don’t know why he would “allow” one to live and one to die, or both to live – maybe Bob had shards of glass embedded in his lungs and no one knows and it’ll give him problems the rest of his life. Maybe Ted will use this as a learning experience and later testify to how God saved him and he learned about forgiveness when he had to forgive Sally. Maybe they both lived to try to teach Sally a lesson on how not to be a jerk when praying. It’s not up to us to know God’s ways; it’s just up to us to walk in His ways.

      Now to be clear, I think there’s a big difference between praying for the doctors and nurses to have steady hands and for nothing to go wrong during the surgery, and praying for one to die. I mean, the Bible’s all about love and life and you know now that I think about it, there’s a bunch of sacrifice, too. So really, if we’re being particular, Sally SHOULD have been praying for BOB to die, not Ted, because he would have been the better sacrifice since he was a more worthy/upstanding person.

      Of course, all of this is ignoring the fact that Sally is bananacrackers.

      1. pancakes*

        The idea that some people wind up with glass in their lungs or encounter other brutalities in life because a deity is trying to teach them a “lesson” or likes to see human sacrifice is also bananacrackers.

    4. CBB*

      Depends on which god you believe in. For some people, God has been known to let one person die in exchange for saving others.

    5. Pennyworth*

      Some people think God makes decisions – such as for a winning candidate when both have prayed for success.

  92. sofar*

    Ted needs to loop in company leadership (and HR, if it exists) now. This is spinning out of control, and who knows what people are doing/saying.

    Besides, Sally has horrific judgement and no discretion. Imagine what she could say to a new employee, or even a client or vendor. Leadership needs to know before she does something like this again (and she will).

  93. Former Usher*

    Sally, due to limited capacity at the venue, there was room for you or Bob, but not both. No disrespect to you, but Bob is in a class by himself. You have to admit you can’t measure up to that.

  94. gbca*

    What a cluster. I appreciate that Ted wanted to be discreet about the Sally situation, it was the classy move. But unfortunately by choosing not to invite her (which I support!) but with no explanation other than venue space, he’s backed himself into looking like the a-hole to his whole team. The optics to the rest of the team are bad – I would think poorly of someone who obviously excluded one person in a group as well for what seemed like no reason. I wouldn’t create drama around it, but it would make me think less of them. I think at a minimum Ted should have explained to Sally why he wasn’t inviting her, and if she still made a stink about it, then I think he needs to give a heads up to others (not in a team meeting as others have suggested). Otherwise he’s going to tarnish his own professional reputation, even if it’s a personal matter.

    1. I've been Ted*

      I didn’t have to confront for a year– until someone wanted to invite us all to the same dinner party– so I can relate to how Ted is feeling on this schedule. But I used similar wording to what someone suggested above (“I didn’t want this to affect how you all had gotten along…”). Their friendship did remain intact, but they acknowledged to me what their misgivings had been about the Sally in question all along.
      I eventually dumped the whole lot of them and my life has been much more peaceful since.

  95. Ray Gillette*

    My first thought reading all this is the office is full of bees and Ted should try to get a job at a company that isn’t all up in your business. I’m sure this place has many good qualities too, but what the actual fuck is going on here.

    Look, I get that being part of a small, tight-knit team for several years can lead to some boundaries being blurred. I’ve been at a small company for 7 years and consider some of my coworkers to be dear friends. But everything about this letter has my shoulders up around my ears.

    Ted’s “second tier man” thing – what’s up with that? What does this mean? Why is he concerned with Sally’s opinion of him as a man rather than as a person, colleague, or friend?

    The office being divided along gender lines – the women are coordinating so that none of them will attend the wedding, and are also freezing Ted out at work. Meanwhile the men all collectively shrugged and said “well, it’s your wedding, you can invite whoever you want” which isn’t wrong, but the relative mildness seems out of place in this stew of whackadoo.

    Did Sally also tell Bob about her horrible prayers? Did Ted say anything to Bob? How does Bob feel about the whole situation, and for that matter does he know how weirdly invested Sally is in him? Why did he loan money to a coworker?

    1. Aggretsuko*

      I would reasonably assume that the men aren’t involved in the ladies’ room gossip chain. I know that sounds stereotypical, but that is what this whole situation sounds like.

  97. MissDisplaced*

    And so Sally can wait, she knows it’s too late as we’re walking on by
    Her soul slides away, but don’t look back in anger I heard you say

    Do not invite Sally the soul sucker on by. If others won’t come to the wedding because of Sally, then well, I’d have to wonder how good of friends they really are? And if I were your fiance Ted, I would seriously consider looking for another, less drama filled, “we’re all a family” type job. I’m sorry this is ruining your wedding planning. How awful.

    1. Momma Bear*

      Agreed. I would rather fewer people attend than have even one person suck the life out of my wedding as a pity invite.

    2. Just Another Zebra*

      For LW and Ted – Consider every person who declines the invitation as an invite to a B-list friend you would have LOVED to invite, but space constraints prohibited.

    3. Solitary squirrel*

      I have to admire MissDisplaced’s aptly applied Oasis lyric!

      And I too hope it is a lovely wedding. And that Ted manages to soothe his soul. I sympathise greatly with both his desire to keep things on an even keel and his disinclination to open himself up for confirmation that, compared to Bob, he sucks. (Which of course he doesn’t.) But it’s not a good way of thinking.

  98. Ms. Ann Thropy*

    Not to be all technical, but Sally has a screw loose. Ted should use Allison’s script to let everyone know why Sally is not invited. Also, the coworkers are suspect at best, as they obviously believe whatever nonsense Sally is spewing.

    1. Campfire Raccoon*

      I don’t want to armchair diagnose, but Sally is nutterbutters coocoobirds bananacrackers. And a jerk.

  100. Janice*

    As much as I want Ted to tell everyone the truth, this is so out there I am not sure everyone will believe him. Especially if Sally doesn’t admit to it and/or has told the women on the team (as they are siding with her) some lie as a possible explanation for the no-invite. In my experience people believe the first lie…
    Are the men freezing him out or does Ted stay away from them?

    1. Aggretsuko*

      It’s possible the men haven’t been included in the gossip, also.

      But yeah, I can’t say for sure if Ted will be believed either. But what else can he do at this point? I’d say tell the truth. If Sally’s as dumb and blabby as she sounds, she may very well be all “But I just wanted to save Bob!” and dig her own grave.

  101. Former HR Staffer*

    i would clear the air by sending an email to their personal (not work) email addresses, relay the exact conversation you had with her, and simply say “i do not wish to invite anyone to my wedding that wished for me to be dead. if you have a problem with that, please RSVP your decline so i can make adjustments with the caterer.” and leave it at that.

    no one’s presence is that important if the presence of someone who makes you immensely uncomfortable ruins your wedding day.

    1. Aggretsuko*

      I generally would agree with this, except I’m kind of concerned about leaving evidence over email of this crazy. If Ted discloses, it probably needs to be public, open, and in person with no documentation.

        1. pancakes*

          I’m not sure what sort of occasion you and Aggretsuko have in mind with regard to “evidence,” but paper documentation is not the only form of evidence that something happened. Events that people see or things they hear or overhear don’t cease to exist due to not having happened in print.

  102. Empress Matilda*

    OP, I’m on team “Ted should tell everybody what Sally said, and let her deal with the fallout.” I would do it in this order:

    1. Heads up to your manager, Sally’s manager, and HR. Because you *know* this is going to cause even more drama, and they need to be aware of what’s going on.
    2. Private conversation with Sally using AnonaLlama’s “connect the dots” script above.
    3. Private conversation with Bob. You don’t want to blindside him at the team meeting – this is likely going to be weird for him too. Give him a day or so to digest the idea before you talk to everyone else.
    4. Group email rather than a team meeting. Likely more comfortable for Ted than saying it out loud, and it ensures everyone gets the same message.
    5. Relentlessly refuse to answer questions or discuss it any further. Sally said what she said, Ted will have said what he needed to say, and everything else is just feeding the drama machine.

    And 6, take a very long honeymoon away from these people!

    1. Just Another Zebra*

      I absolutely agree that Ted should tell everyone, and that management needs a serious head’s up.

      I am concerned, though, that Ted’s self-esteem issues will take another hit if people actually “choose” Sally.

      “She didn’t mean it like that.”
      “You misunderstood.”
      And of course, “Why would you hurt Sally like that? [insert option 1 or 2 as justification].”

      Sally is unequivocally wrong in this situation. Logical people will agree. That doesn’t mean it won’t cause problems to out her.

      1. Nina*

        so much this.
        been there done that, the only thing worse than my uncle phoning me repeatedly at 3 am with death threats was the rest of my family trying to convince me he didn’t really mean it and he’d never hurt a fly. oh and he was drunk so it wasn’t his fault. oh and he meant well. oh and he probably kind of had a point.

        1. Friends over toxic family!*

          WTH!!!! Nina, hope you are no contact with the whole bunch of your family! Blood ain’t thicker than water is the blood that will be spilled it yours!

          Once my mother passes on, my family and I will mutually ghost and I will further concentrate on my friends. And none of them wished my death!

  103. MissBaudelaire*

    Yikes on bikes.

    Honestly, I would be more inclined to go scorched Earth. “I’m not inviting Sally because I don’t want her there. If you feel that means you can’t go, well, we’ll miss you.” and leave it at that. If someone continued to pry, I would say “I’m not having this discussion. Sally is not invited. We can talk about something else, or I will need to walk away.”

    There’s just too much in-fighting going on here. A whole group deciding “Well, if Sally can’t go *I* obviously can’t go!” What kind of nonsense is this? I would bet Sally is sobbing to anyone she just doesn’t understand wwhhhyyyyy. I would bet she isn’t saying “Well, I kinda maybe did tell him I hoped he would die…” This is worse than my middle school lunch table.

      1. MissBaudelaire*

        Right? Me too.

        “So you’re all RSVP’ing no? Shucks. Well, okay then.” And then see if they show up and be like “Naw, you said you weren’t coming. Get out.”

    1. Joan Clayton*

      Can you imagine!! “You never lent me money, so I wanted you to die” I swear every day humanity creates a new bottom.

  106. Heron*

    Please encourage your fiance to learn how to be more assertive. It will make his life so much more pleasant when he no longer acts like he needs to keep quiet when others insult him. I hope he’s learned from this situation that sometimes, speaking up is the right thing to do.

  107. CatPerson*

    I would hope, as well, that Bob would be horrified that Sally inflicted such unasked for pain on Ted! If I were Bob, I would want to know!!

  109. Joan Clayton*

    Whew…. the lord knows who to put in these positions, cuz I would’ve aired Sally in the moment. But, it would be best for your husband to take Alison’s advice and let everyone know exactly why Sally wasn’t included. Because I KNOW Sally is telling everyone that Ted is singling her out, and she has no idea why he’s being mean to her. And because of this, everyone is treating her like the wronged party.

  110. Purely Allegorical*

    There’s a lot of dysfunction here! Sally’s is obvious — what a nutjob, first to think what she thought AND THEN TO TELL TED ABOUT IT.

    But the description of Ted’s lack of self-confidence is concerning. He sounds like he was truly obsessing about it! That’s not how you should go through the world, constantly believing that people think the worst of you. That’s rough among tight friend-groups, let alone co-workers. If co-workers have gotten to this point, where you’re more worried about how your coworkers think of you as a person than you are about your job performance, then the boundaries have become too blurred.

    I agree that the only way out of this mess is through it. Ted needs to come clean at this point and confess what Sally told him, and why that made him uncomfortable inviting her to the wedding. He should also apologize for letting the situation get a bit out of control, and that people can come to the wedding or not.

    Optional: Ted should get a new job. (Honestly I probably would, this sounds like a pretty broken situation at best and a highly dysfunctional workplace at worst.)
    Not optional: Ted should go to therapy to work on those self-confidence issues, cuz that will follow him all his life.

    1. MissDisplaced*

      I would honestly feel a lot like Ted if someone I knew from work told me that. I mean JEEZ! Someone you never did anything bad to that you worked with, telling you they prayed you’d die? I would have no confidence at that workplace either.

  111. Elm*

    There is NO way Sally doesn’t know why she wasn’t invited. I wonder what she’s telling everyone about “why she thinks it happened.”

    1. Just Another Zebra*

      Having met several Sallys in my life… I actually don’t think she does.

      I imagine her saying this very lightly, as if this is now some joke she and Ted share. I can imagine her also really not remembering saying it, because it was a fleeting comment… to her.

      There’s a saying “the axe forgets, but the tree remembers”. Sally is the axe; she has already forgotten about her comment. Ted is the tree and is still hurting.

      1. irene adler*

        She probably pats herself on the back for being completely open with Ted regarding the sharing of her thoughts comparing him to Bob.

      2. quill*

        Yeah. Most plausible scenario: in her mind the sin was the prayer against him. The confession (to him, not a priest…) grants her automatic absolution.

        In the real world, the prayer did nothing but make her feel guilty, which she then rationalized to Ted. The confession and the rationalization hurt Ted.

      3. Aggretsuko*

        Some people are pros at self-deception and making up crap in their heads and convincingly lying to themselves. I would suspect Sally may be like this.

    2. Joan Clayton*

      I can pretty much guarantee Sally doesn’t think what she said was a big deal. Because Ted didn’t react in the moment, and he didn’t make it known that he was hurt. So, now she has “No idea” why Ted is upset with her “all of a sudden.” People never cease to amaze me with how clueless they are to their own actions/words.

  112. Elizabeth West*

    Okay, wow, what the actual f***, Sally. This is why it’s a good idea not to mix work and your personal life. But that’s not what the OP is asking.

    Re going to the manager: yeah, I would definitely talk to them about the way the team is behaving. The coworkers can’t just stop talking to Ted. I would do it with as little emotion as possible but the manager needs to know what’s going on here since it’s affecting the work.

    And I’m in agreement with Alison and others that he should let it be known WHY she wasn’t invited. Personally, I wouldn’t want Sally at my wedding either. Anyone who sides with her after that revelation can just stay home themselves and go jump in a cold lake full of hungry leeches.

  113. Dona Florinda*

    Oh OP, Ted needs a new job asap. Leaving Sally’s comment aside (seriously, I don’t even wanna think about it), the fact that half of his work friends just froze him out and are refusing to go to the wedding says that something else is going on. Maybe Sally is really manipulative, maybe Ted has had other issues that he chose to keep to himself and people misinterpreted… Either way, this workplace is just not right, at least for Ted.

    Also, I’m really sorry he had to hear those things from someone he thought of as a friend and that this caused him to second guess every friendship. A therapist could help him with that.

  114. Despachito*

    I agree with everyone that what Sally said is beyond the pale.

    But I also think the part of the team who refused to go if Sally doesn’t go is behaving WILDLY inappropriately.

    I’ve seen it before that Guest A tells the host that s/he refuses to come if Guest B comes (or refuses to come if Guest B does not come), and to disinvite/invite Guest B, and I consider it to be a HUGE chutzpah.

    It is absolutely NOT on ANY guest to blackmail the host to influence who gets invited and who doesn’t.

    By refusing to go if Sally doesn’t go the part of the team who did this clearly showed that

    – they do not really care about Ted
    – they were probably raised by wolves, because this IS NOT DONE.

    I would gladly kick them out of my wedding. He does not OWE them that, good Lord! And I’d have a big problem communicating with them beyond strictly professional interaction, no more “close-knit anything” for me.

    1. Amy Farrah Fowler*

      Yeah, I agree for the most part. You don’t get to decide the guest list if you ARE a guest. Now, if there are truly extenuating circumstances, I think it can be a kindness to let the hosts know. For example “I love you both, I think you’re great, but Uncle so-and-so assaulted me x yrs ago, so can you please let me know if you are inviting him because I do not feel safe around him.” But that’s not asking them to change their plans, that’s asking for information, so you can adjust your own plans.

      However, none of that is particularly relevant here.

      1. Despachito*

        I completely agree and I was thinking of this when writing the comment but forgot to add it.

        Although a decent person should be able to behave civilly around someone they do not particularly like, it CAN indeed happen that Uncle Bob had assaulted them in the past and they feel they would not be able to be around him.

        But if it happens to me, it is MY problem, I cannot make it the host’s problem. I should tell them that I will not be attending because I cannot be around Uncle Bob, but I’ d never ask them to disinvite Uncle Bob or create “it’s him or me” situation. It would be unfair to burden the host with what is MY OWN battle.

        1. MissBaudelaire*

          +1. There have been times that people I dislike have been invited to events. I respectfully decline. It is rude for a host to ask why, but if they do, I may say “Because I am not spending my time around Y.” and leave it at that. I’m not asking them to change the guest lists, I’d never dream of it. I’m not creating “me or them”. I’m just saying I choose not to go.

          Can’t choose the guest list, can choose whether or not I am attending. I’ll stick with the choices I have control over and not fret about the ones I don’t.

    2. Dona Florinda*

      Agreed. If the coworkers are blackmailing the couple (!) about the guest list, then none of them should be there.

    3. VanyaH*

      I kind of understand the part of the team refusing to go to the wedding, given their total “we’re a dysfunctional family” vibe, because my extended family has that same vibe.

      My cousin was the first to get married. His mother (my aunt) invited only half of her siblings; the other half, including my mother Jane, were not. Various ridiculous reasons were given, such as “Jane works so much, she won’t take the time off to come.” My mother worked a M-F, 9-5 job in the area, and the wedding was on the weekend. Also, these reasons were stated at the bridal shower, to which my aunt had invited *all* the siblings. My mother was even in attendance at the shower to overhear all this.

      The eldest of the invited siblings declined the invitation, because he felt that my aunt was being rude by excluding half of their siblings, and he didn’t feel right attending.

      Now, to be clear – the freezing out and hampering Ted’s work is absolutely *not* okay. The coworkers should still be professional. But as another commented pointed out, Ted is protecting Sally’s reputation at the expense of his own. All the coworkers see is “Ted is being rude & excluding Sally for no reason and that is rude and I don’t want to attend a rude person’s wedding.” Furthermore, if the coworkers do go, they could feel that they were participating in the rudeness/exclusion.

      Please note: I’m 100% on Ted’s side in this. Sally is a horrible person. But the coworkers are making decisions based on what information they have – or rather, what information they don’t have.

      1. MissBaudelaire*

        Ah, the old “You can come to the shower, but not the wedding.” Good enough to give a present, not good enough to celebrate. My friend did that once and it’s rubbed me the wrong way every since.

      2. Despachito*

        Were it not for the bridal shower, I’d consider it perfectly normal to invite whoever the couple wants, without having to consider “if we invite the nice Aunt Jenny, we must also invite the horrible Uncle John because he is her brother and if we don’t, it will wreak havoc in the entire family”

        I think the world would be a much better place without entitlement. Most of us have limited budgets and I know how difficult it is to draw the line, but it has to be drawn somewhere, and it is up to the bride and the groom as it is on THEIR dime. What is the point in getting angry that Uncle John did not get invited to an event I am not paying for? It seems that I care much more for Uncle John than for the happy couple, and it is also incredibly cheap. Not my money, not my rules. Some people!

      3. pancakes*

        Ok, but what’s stopping them from asking him about the “no reason” part? He’s a close friend of theirs, not a stranger, not a mere acquaintance. They know they don’t have any information about why Sally is apparently being excluded, correct, but they could seek some out.

    4. SnappinTerrapin*

      Quite right.

      Guests have no business asking about the guest list, or “suggesting” that someone be invited.

      The guest has a binary decision to make: Accept or decline the invitation. Negotiation (or extortion) is simply rude.

      If one must think about it at all, one should assume that there is a private reason why the other party is excluded, and assume that the reason is none of one’s business.

      Naturally, if one is offended that another was not invited, one should send their regrets that it will simply not be possible to accept the invitation, along with their best wishes for the couple.

      Period.

      1. SnappinTerrapin*

        Butting into the private issue between the hosts and the uninvited third party is one of the very few valid grounds for withdrawing an invitation.

        I can see why Ted and LW might not choose that option, but it would not be a breach of etiquette to do so, under these circumstances.

  115. Amy Farrah Fowler*

    Someone please enlighten me/correct me as I am not a praying type person… but wouldn’t the prayer be “please let everyone be okay, let them recover fully and have full and fulfilling lives” not “please let this one be okay, but that one… he can die” Who prays like that?

    1. Eldritch Office Worker*

      Stages of grief are not as linear as we simplify them to be in the zeitgeist, and in both panic and grief “bargaining” is a very normal psychological response, so that part seems fine based on just how humans observably act in difficult situations.

      The “tell Ted” part is pretty hard to justify or forgive.

    2. ecnaseener*

      As EOW said, bargaining is pretty normal.

      With the caveat that there are many, MANY different concepts of god/divinity/whatever-you-pray-to — yes, for some people it makes perfect sense that God might be “willing” to save one but not both and you should express a preference if you have it.

    3. Lady_Lessa*

      The first is the way I normally pray, or more simply “God be with them, and include all of the medical people involved.”

      If you want to read some nasty stuff that is in the Bible, look up “Imprecatory Psalms” they are some where enemies are to be destroyed. I’m glad that they are in there, because many of us sometimes want revenge. But there are other Psalms that are more loving, more merciful to pray.

        1. Candi*

          Well, we saw what happened on Bruce Almighty when all prayers were just answered, “Yes.”

          More seriously, considering the number of “I’m better than though”, “please hurt that person for very petty reasons”, and other such selfish, self-centered, arrogant reasons (and that’s without getting into the bigoted glassbowlery), I suspect that God has a LOT of very solid filters that kick those kind of prayers into folders where they can be referenced later. (Same for “thank yous”, since those don’t generally need a reply.) Others get an autoreply. The rest, who knows.

    5. fhqwhgads*

      It does not matter at all what she did or did not pray for. What matters is what she said to Ted, which is heinous.

  116. TennisFan*

    Saying “you have to admit you can’t measure up to that” is the real kicker. That tells me Sally sought to actively harm Ted and predicted she’d get away with it to a certain extent due to his insecurities. I’d guess she’s nursing a pretty significant resentment against him. Or is a sociopath (using that word in the vernacular sense).
    The dysfunction at work could very easily be pinned on Ted. I’d emphasize to him that Sally does not have his best interests at heart, and he needs to protect himself, by setting the record straight and making it clear to management that his focus at work is doing work, not engaging in distracting conflicts with colleagues (as unfair as that characterization would be, that’s what the evidence is pointing to right now).

  117. Just Another Zebra*

    My OldJob was as a wedding coordinator, and I have seen SOME THINGS. Sally, unfortunately, is not an uncommon archetype.

    Here’s the thing. Traditionally, you should invite everyone in a “cluster” to a wedding – all your aunts and uncles, all of these coworkers, etc. The thing is, though, that so rarely happens because of people. My MIL will forever remind me of her “Jewish guilt” (her words) that my husband and I didn’t invite her mother’s brother’s ex-wife’s new husband to our wedding. My husband had never met this person. (She also gave us a guest list of 75 MUST INVITES to a wedding of 100 guest, but that’s another issue).

    As for what Ted should do – I think the high road is hurting him more than helping him. Sally hurt him with a cruel, thoughtless message that has unfortunately resonated with him. I often told my brides “is this someone you would normally treat to a $100 dinner?” when there were questions about who to invite. Is it a perfect formula? No. But Ted wouldn’t treat Sally to a Happy Meal at this point.

    So the next time Ted is asked, or a coworker says something snide, he needs to be matter of fact. “After the wreck Bob and I were in, Sally explained to me she prayed for my death so that Bob might live. As you can imagine, I’m uncomfortable having her celebrate such a joyful occasion with my fiancee and I. And since our venue has a limited capacity, it made sense to cut someone who wished me ill.”

    As for you, LW, my advice is to be strong for your future husband and assure him that he isn’t a “second-tier man” to the people who matter.

    1. Reba*

      in this case, emphasis on the “cluster”!

      In seriousness I love these lines! “It made sense to cut someone who wished me ill.” Yes.

      1. Just Another Zebra*

        One of the brides I worked with had 9 cousins, and wanted to invite all but two. There were some mental gymnastics involved, but there was no cousin “cluster” – these 4 always went to brunch, these 2 had kids that did soccer together. The $100 dinner is good benchmark, IMO.

    2. MissBaudelaire*

      We gave my MIL her portion of people to invite. We very specifically said “Do not invite Brother. We do not like them. They are not kind to us. Brother Wedding. No.” Gueeeessss who rolled on up to our wedding? With 9 other people! My husband and his husband, at that point, had not even spoken for about three or four years.

      He also tried to steal some of my items from the wedding, and when I called him out on it, my MIL then said “Don’t take what she says to heart. She’s just stressed.” It was my wedding day, I was nine months pregnant. But my words were true even now. Don’t touch my crap, dude, I don’t know you.

      On the flip side, she tried to invite us to his wedding two years later and was shocked we turned that one down.

      Your 100 dollar meal is a really good benchmark.

    3. allathian*

      I guess it’s a cultural difference, but none of my friends’ parents or in-laws had any say whatsoever about the guest lists. The bride and groom invited those they wanted to see them married, nobody else. But all of my friends were in their late twenties or early thirties, established professionals, when they got married, and paid for their weddings themselves. Well, except a former friend who got religion in her teens and was determined to be a virgin bride, so she got married a few weeks after she graduated from college. She’s also the only person in my group of friends and former friends who’s divorced (in her case, twice divorced). To be sure, there was no drama in our breakup, it seems like both of us just decided to stop making the effort to stay in touch. There’s something to be said for marrying out of your own home as an established professional, rather than out of your parents’ house, at least you have some pushback if your parents or in-laws try to dictate your guest list.

      LW, I hope you’ll be able to enjoy your wedding with guest you actually want to see you get married.

      1. Just Another Zebra*

        There are many, many differences in wedding planning that are culture – and sometimes family – specific. But as a general rule, I encouraged couples to take ownership of their plans.

        My husband and I actually did the guest list – we wanted 100 people at our wedding, and both find B lists to be a bit distasteful. We each invited 60 guests, which allowed for 10% regrets. Including us, there was 107 people at our wedding. My parents (who paid for the wedding) did not have a guest list, but I insisted they invite at least a few friends. My MIL is the one who wanted to do things differently, and is still a bit salty we did things our way.

    4. Kit*

      I’m still mildly salty that my MIL, upon receiving regrets-RSVPs to our wedding, decided unilaterally to invite friends of hers who I had never met and did not know from a hole in the ground, and who my husband was only barely more familiar with. MILs are a whole-ass thing, for sure. (Both my ILs have some boundary issues, which is why we live an hour and a half away from them.)

      LW and Ted? Seriously, yeah, tell them! Keeping this secret is hurting you and your relationships with these people, which are admittedly a hot mess of boundary-overstepping… but if you value them at all, explaining why Sally isn’t invited might be the only way to start establishing those boundaries. You’re declaring “people who pray for our deaths are not wedding-invite-level friends,” which… duh? That should be entirely obvious.

  118. Jennifer Strange*

    Honestly, while I think isolating one coworker to not invite isn’t great, Sally sounds like a drama llama. First, there was no reason to pray for Ted to die in an effort to “save” Bob. Unless you belong to a specific religion that believes when two people are critically injured one will live and one will die (to my knowledge bo such religion exists but it’s possible) she could have simply prayed that Bob would survive without bringing Ted into it (or, better yet, pray they both survived). Second, even if she had a reason to choose one to die, there was zero reason to tell Ted that. Him knowing does nothing but create drama. If she felt she needed to confess something go to her place of worship and do that.

    So yeah, Ted messed up a little here, but Sally is in a class by herself.

  119. Texas*

    I think it’s wild to tell Ted to just move past Sally’s comments without any redress. If someone told me that they actively hope for my death so that their god would keep a coworker alive, that’s emergency klaxons going off in my brain “This person isn’t safe to be around. This person just said they would prefer I be harmed.” Though I would also immediately make sure everyone knew what Sally had just said.

  120. RagingADHD*

    Sally is a loon.

    Why would you assume that one of them “has” to die at all, or that you even get a say in the matter? Even if you had some strange worldview where God were taking requests on the matter, why would a random coworker get the deciding vote?

    And why tell the person?

    I can understand the other teammates boycotting the wedding if they thought Bob was just picking on Sandy, but it’s surprising that all these people can work with Sally so long and have no idea how screwed up she is.

  121. Mirea*

    OMG Sally is just….awful. Ted, I can understand. He was in a bad car accident and had emergency surgery with all the trauma incident with that. Then when he’s recovered, this woman comes along just to bring it all back up and let him know that she hoped he’d be the one to die if one of ’em was going to?! WTAF is wrong with her?! Now Ted has to grapple with how many other people secretly feel that way about him on top of everything else he’s been through.

    Ted is a bigger person that I would be. What Sally did is beyond hurtful and if I were in his shoes I’d happily say “she went *out of her way* to let me know she prayed for my death after a my traumatic accident. Hell no she’s not invited to my wedding or anything else in my life.”

  122. C in the Hood*

    This is why you should never work for a company that’s “like family”.

    That aside: (1) Sally is a fruitcake; (2) OP says that Ted is really insecure deep down & it’s obvious that he let this rattle him far beyond what it needed to. I personally think he could use some therapy, at the very least to establish boundaries in his head between what people say & who he actually is as a worker. Because that will probably follow him wherever he goes.

  123. Purple Cat*

    Wow.
    this letter needs an update already.
    Ted needs to tell Sally exactly why she’s not invited to the wedding. And then he needs to tell everyone else exactly why Sally’s not invited to the wedding.
    What on earth possessed her to 1) feel that way 2) TELL HIM?!?

  124. Yessica Haircut*

    OP is a way better person and partner than I am, because in her shoes, I 100% would not have been able to restrain myself from blowing up Sally’s spot when the coworkers reached out to ask me directly. I would have been tempted to deflect from Ted entirely and say, “*I* set the boundary that Sally was not permitted at our wedding after the awful things she said to Ted after his accident.”

    But good for OP for respecting Ted’s messaging about this issue and presenting a united front with him.

  125. Fake Old Converse Shoes (not in the US)*

    My hunch is that once the truth is out Ted’s coworkers are going to ask for “receipts”, like a normal YouTube beef.
    Also, Ted should ask for a team transfer and search for a new job. The working relationship is ruined forever.

  126. Mannheim Steamroller*

    It’s essential for Ted to explain everything to the whole group — with Sally present, so that he can control the message.

  127. BlueBelle*

    Ted looks like the jerk in this case, so being direct and matter of fact like Alison stated is the only way to go. I cannot believe someone would pray someone died and then tell them. At this point, I would take her aside and tell her exactly why she isn’t invited and that she needs to stop creating drama with the other women. Her behavior was unprofessional,to begin with and now she is controlling the narrative.

  129. Sara without an H*

    If I were going to pray for something work-related, it would be t0 be preserved from small, close-knit work groups.

    The whole mess also illustrates the inadvisability of inviting coworkers to weddings, but that’s another rant.

    Now…if I were the manager, would I want to know about this? Well, if Ted is being actively frozen-out by coworkers and it’s affecting his ability to get work done, yes, I’d want to know. But the manager here seems conspicuous by their absence, so I suspect they’re hiding in their office, hoping it will all blow over.

  132. Manchmal*

    Here’s how I would play this. Right now, Ted is clearly the victim of his horrible co-worker, but no one at work knows that except him and Sally. To everyone else, the women in the office at least, it looks like he arbitrarily decided to ostracize one of their merry band and the others are pushing back as something they see as unfair and divisive. It also sounds like Ted has taken this deeply to heart, and is still really upset and hurt by it. I get all the advice saying, just tell everyone! But I’m guessing that would actually not be very easy for Ted. He has somehow internalized Sally’s commentary, and I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s worried deep down that others would agree, minimize what Sally said, or just generally take her side. (That wouldn’t happen in a million years, but I’m sure it’s still a fear.)

    So, what I would do is find the woman to whom Ted feels he has the closest relationship or best rapport. Take her aside, ask her if she can grab a coffee, and then I would absolutely spill my guts. If he can tear up a bit, so much the better. If he can get one of the protesting women on his side, she will RUN back to the others and immediately turn them. Ted can even ask her to keep what he’s said in confidence. She will still go back, maybe not tell them details, but absolutely alert the others to the error of their ways.

    I would NOT confront Sally directly but privately. This would just give her an opportunity to get her story straight, and tell a watered-down version that minimizes her harm to the rest of the group.

    Ted is a good guy. He didn’t want Sally’s bomb to impact the rest of the group, but it has. At this point, things are not going to go back to the way they were. It’s Ted or Sally, and I think Ted should not be so polite and deferential to Sally that he protects her to the detriment of his own relationships and career.

    2. Despachito*

      Yes.

      I think Ted is a decent human being, who is doing what would be good to do around another decent person, i.e. avoid their embarassment at the cost of being embarassed himself a bit.

      But the problem is, Sally is NOT acting as a decent person, and what we would assume to be a kindness, she’d possibly assume a weakness. Or is really so clueless she does not realize what she actually said.

      I can perfectly assume that Ted does not want to create unnecessary drama. Many, if not most of us were brought up not to stir the pot, and it is fine around normal people, but there is a line when by being generous you are hurting yourself, and in this case, you should stop being generous and cover your own a…

      But it is easier said than done, and in my case, the relationships with the refusing coworkers would already be down the drain beyond repair at that point. So, if I could afford it in the least, I’d start activelly searching a new job, and as for the wedding it would be: “Sally told me that she’d prefer me to die rather than Bob, and that he’s much more valuable for her. This is just to set things straight and for you to know what actually happened. I did not want to mention it as I did not want to stir up drama but at that point I feel that being overly generous is harming me. Those who said they are not coming to my wedding without knowing what was actually going on, I am taking you for your word, please consider yourselves disinvited”.

      What an awful bunch, and what an inappropriate behaviour. Why do they think they have ANY say as to Ted’s guest list?

    3. pancakes*

      I don’t agree that good guys keep quiet about seriously disturbing behavior on account of it being awkward to talk about. I also don’t think Ted is a bad guy for having a lot of insecurities to grapple with on top of recovering from a serious car accident, or for not handling this well from the start, but it doesn’t follow that his silence about this is admirable. There’s plenty of room for more nuance than that here.

      1. Despachito*

        I think good guys tend to assume that other people mean well, and if in doubt, tend to err on the side least likely to damage the other party. There are some things they just do not have software for.

        It is not admirable that Ted remained silent, and it is not the best choice. But I can see it coming from a good place (Ted possibly does not want to dreate crama, and very likely he just does not know what to do, because it is so wildly inappropriate).

        I think that all Teds should be taught at schools that being assertive does NOT make you a bad guy.

          1. pancakes*

            (When there’s context suggesting they don’t, at least. I’m not trying to say we’d all be better off assuming the worst!)

  133. no phone calls, please*

    Yikes on bikes, and the entire problem is explained by OP right at the beginning: “… and we consider them all to be close friends”.

  134. Toads, Beetles, Bats*

    There’s a nonzero chance that she said the same thing to Bob about Ted (i.e. that she wanted Ted to live if only one of them could, since Ted is a saint). Some people get really really weird when Big Stuff is going down, and they’ll insert themselves into the situation in totally inappropriate ways – because they have to be part of the energy or something. Maybe Sally is one of these people. The train’s left the station on many parts of this mess, but it might help your fiance to reframe at least some of it as “Sally can get really weird and hurtful in a crisis” rather than “Sally doesn’t like me but pretends she does.”

  135. Delta Delta*

    Sally: I hoped you would die.
    Also Sally: wah, I’m not invited to your wedding.

    I want Ted to get a new job and get out of this stew of weirdness.

  136. AthenaC*

    “She said that while they had been in surgery, she prayed that if God had to let one of them die, she hoped it would be him.”

    That is a really toxic twist on “let not my will but Your will be done.”

    So, (probably) not serious advice, but if you invite Sally, make sure one of the speeches specifically thanks Sally for her prayers for Ted’s soul (or for Ted to have a peaceful death, or for whatever your theological tradition allows). Simply gush in appreciation, say that fortunately we don’t need such prayers quiiiite yet, but you’ll be sure to ask for her prayers at such time as those particular prayers are needed.

    If you do something like that, I trust it will be self-evident to everyone there why Sally wasn’t invited initially.

  137. Loredena Frisealach*

    Is everyone working in the same common area? If so, I think Ted could approach it by saying to Sally in front of the rest of the team – “Sally, after that car accident you straight up told me you prayed for my death. Why on earth are surprised that LW and I don’t want you at our wedding?”

  138. Essess*

    I have no idea why Ted is covering for Sally. Sally is deliberately causing drama and hostility in the office. Tell the whole truth and let Sally handle the fallout. There was no reason to lie and blame the venue. You don’t want someone there that blatantly told you that they wished for your death.

  140. CmdrShepard*

    Based on some of the things OP has mentioned Ted feels, and the comment not being in quotes, I wonder if that is how it was actually worded, but rather that is how Ted interpreted it?

    I imagine Sally is closer with Bob. Ted and Bob are in the ER, Sally is praying for both of them to make, but as some point (negotiation is one of the stages of grief) says “Please God save them both, but if only one can survive please let Bob survive.”

    So maybe Sally didn’t exactly pray for Ted to die but rather for Bob to survive. But Ted hears it as Sally prayed/wanted Ted to die. After they both made it Sally felt full of guilt so they had to confess to Ted. I agree this has a mistake to say anything to Ted, Sally should have spoken with a therapist.

    Maybe Sally did say “Dear good please let them both live, but if you have to take one of them can you take Ted and leave Bob.”

    Based on everything else Ted/OP has said about Sally I don’t think she had ill intentions, she was misguided in reveling it to Ted, but I don’t think she was malicious.

    1. Health Insurance Nerd*

      We’re supposed to take LWs at their word. Sally’s intentions are completely irrelevant, she made a comment to a man who just survived a car accident that if only one person could live, it should be Bob. I have no idea how Ted could have misinterpreted that.

      1. CmdrShepard*

        I am taking the LW at their word. I agree no matter how it was said Sally should have kept her mouth shut. But the comment by Sally seems to have really thrown Ted in a tailspin with other co-workers not just Sally and causing them distress.

        Per OP “She said that while they had been in surgery, she prayed that if God had to let one of them die, she hoped it would be him. (WTF?!?)”

        I was not trying to excuse Sally saying that, I agree even in the most charitable interpretation it was a bad comment to say. Looking back I realize I didn’t finish my thought.

        What I was trying to get at is the maybe reframing the sentiment might help Ted with the thoughts of self-doubt regarding the other co-workers. It is not that Sally really wanted you/Ted to die, it is that Sally really wanted Bob to live.

        I am not trying to compare the two situations or think they are the same, but it is the best example I can thin of. It is sort of like when your favorite sports team A makes it to the final/championship against another team Z that you like, you might say I really hope my team A wins they are my favorite, or some people might say I hope team Z loses.

        Ted seems to have interpreted Sally wants team Z to lose it must be because team Z is terrible and the worst, I bet all the other co-workers also want team Z to lose they must also hate team Z.

        But trying to rephrase to Sally is a big fan of Team A she just wants them to win and has nothing against team Z might help Ted in thinking that other coworkers have nothing against team Z either.

        1. Health Insurance Nerd*

          Ok, that’s totally fair, I appreciate you expanding on your original comment. Sally’s words clearly sent Ted into a spiral, and logically it was definitely a jump to go from “Sally wants me to die” to “the whole team thinks I’m garbage”, but the human brain is a mostly illogical organ. Aside from that, I think anyone would struggle with Sally’s confession- in a better world she would have just kept her terrible thoughts to herself and, barring that, Ted would have responded with something along the lines of “wow, what an absolutely horrible thing to tell me” and then not only walked away, but also shared what she said with his coworkers (but, this is also one of this situations where it’s easy to think any of us would know how we’d respond were we in his shoes, but I’m guessing the reality for most of us would be very different).

    2. twocents*

      “Please God save them both, but if only one can survive please let Bob survive.”

      That’s still praying for Ted to die without using the exact words.

    3. Yorick*

      Your second paragraph is pretty much what OP says. Sally prayed that if one of them had to die, let it be Ted. Then she told Ted about it. We all understand that she didn’t just want Ted to die in general. It’s still extremely hurtful to tell someone this.

  141. Fiddlesticks*

    Holy crap. If someone at worked told me they had prayed for my death, you can be sure my next work conversation would be with the HR representative. Sally should have been dealt with a long time ago.

  142. the cat's ass*

    Dang, this is bananacrackers to the nth.
    I’d send a brief explanatory email (and Bcc the boss);
    Do NOT NOT NOT invite her terrible ass to your wedding;
    Get some therapy-Sally hasn’t helped Ted’s post accident PTSD very much;
    Perhaps consider a new job where you can have a fresh start.

    We DEFINITELY need an update on this! Good luck, OP and Ted and i hope you have a beautiful, stress-free wedding celebration!

  143. Our Lady of Trafalmadore*

    Ted should let everyone know the (very good!) reason Sally was not invited, and then uninvite all the rest of the co-workers because this incident has caused him to reassess his work-life boundaries. If my co-workers were being brats because of another co-worker not being invited, I would not feel like I required that energy at my big expensive party.

    1. Despachito*

      Absolutely.

      She is massively overstepping in several ways. Who gave her the right to question the guest list? And posing as the speaker on behalf of an entire group of women is super weird as well. She is behaving like a nosy busybody, and I’d be tempted to say to the whole team: “Alice came to me asking why I did not invite Sally (WTF?) and telling me that if I don’t invite her all of you girls are not coming. I wanted to be a gentleman and not to mention the reason but this sort of forces me to. I am not inviting Sally because she told me X. I have no clue why she would say this, it was super weird and hurtful, and I certainly do not want to share my big day with someone like that. I understand Alice is opting out, as she has told me, but I wanted to check whether she was really speaking for all of you as a group. If anyone else feels that they are not coming if Sally is not there, I will respect this and please tell me to delete you from the guest list.”

  145. AKchic*

    “We chose not to invite Sally after she told me she prayed for my death. If you don’t want to come, let me know now. We’ll miss you, but if supporting Sally is what you want to do, I’m not going to try to change your mind.”

    Seriously. Stop protecting Sally. Tell HR what happened. Don’t try to fight for any of these coworkers. They aren’t your friends if they choose Sally after hearing what she said. I doubt Bob actually knows what’s going on. Frankly, Bob shouldn’t be loaning money to get at all, but that’s his business, not Ted’s.

    Enjoy the wedding without Sally and any of Sally’s supporters. Send out any leftover invites so you don’t have any empty seats.

  146. Communication is Key*

    This reminds me of the letter in which the LW confirmed an interview short-notice through a recruiter that was supposed to be at 4:30 the following day. The next morning they received an email that it was at 10:30. The LW couldn’t do that/didn’t want to change it, so it was set for 3:30. The LW didn’t want to point the finger at the recruiter for getting the time wrong and claimed they, themselves, must have confused the time, which made the LW look bad to the interviewer.

    1. Despachito*

      The problem is that we are brought up that it is polite to give the benefit of the doubt/a way to save the face to the other person, but for that you are assuming that the other person is a decent human being and has been taught the same thing. If there is a messup with a time, and both parties are otherwise well-meaning and decent people, it would probably smooth the awkwardness a bit if both of them say “oh, I might have messed up” rather than “YOU are the one who messed up”. But it assumes the other party is aware that you are, in fact, letting them save face, and will not use it against you.

      But some people mistake kindness for weakness, and we are not always able to recognize them. (And also the interview is possibly a little bit different as you have no history together and there is a risk that you will be considered to be the one in the wrong although you weren’t, which will tank your chances to be hired”.

  147. Ash*

    Ted should now say to Sally, “Thanks for telling me about your prayers for my death. Luckily, I don’t think god has a scorecard of how many people can be saved from an accident. And I also don’t think god listens to prayers from someone as petty as you.”

    1. Gerry Keay*

      I’m praying that if we only get one update between this letter and the other letters published today, we get the update from this letter.

  149. Paloma Pigeon*

    “We’re like a family/We’re all friends” will now always, always make me run from a job opportunity.

  150. Why isn't it Friday?*

    The head of HR at my company once told me she thinks the partners get along very well because they don’t socialize together outside of work. The comment took me aback at first, but then I realized the wisdom of that approach. The partners are all very warm and friendly with each other, of course, but they keep work to work and don’t let personal feelings or snubs or whatever get in the way of their professional relationships. I think this is the best approach. I also think the biggest problem in OP’s office is how intertwined socially all of these coworkers are. It’s fine until it’s not fine – like now, when Ted not inviting Sally to his wedding is causing this huge uproar. I’m sure it’s derailing the actual work these guys have to get done. If I were Ted, I’d consider leaving and making a point of keeping strict work/life boundaries in the future.

  151. Denise C*

    I have been reading AAM for years and, holy crap, this has to be the most jaw-dropping thing I’ve read here!

    From the picture the letter-writer painted, I have a feeling if Ted told others what transpired between him and Sally, she’d just deny it and his team would continue to be icy to him. If it was me, I’d invite Sally + 1 just to help the atmosphere at work, and also let the supervisor know what’s going on since this is so utterly jaw-dropping. I pray this all resolves well.

    1. Gerry Keay*

      Ugh I know there’s value in keeping peace, but I really really don’t think Ted should have to look at someone who told him they’d rather he die on what should be a celebration of a new chapter in his life. Personally, I’d rather some iciness at work than invite someone who clearly thinks so little of me to an event I’ll remember and look back on the rest of my life.

  152. school of hard knowcs*

    Uhm, I am a Christian who actually read the whole bible. Nobody prays like that EVER. Any sacrifice would SELF. Back to the office, Ted, please, don’t take your values from what others say. In whatever manner makes you most comfortable, just explain why you didn’t invite Sally. I would add the kicker, that you understand why the others want to stand by Sally, and what she said, and thank them for being honest and not attending the wedding. Then wrap with you didn’t say anything about what Sally said, even though it hurt, because you wanted the team to work well together. Also tell the whole thing to your manager. (There is no way that this is the first horrible thing Sally has said and it does her and the team no favors to let it continue.)

    1. SnappinTerrapin*

      This is a decent response.

      I appreciate Ted’s choices in this situation. I don’t think I could have kept my peace when Alice tried to negotiate the guest list. Your script is much better than what I probably would have said in the heat of the moment.

  153. I was the one left out*

    This is strangely familiar. My cousin was getting married; it was a small venue and limited budget. He invited my brother, but none of the sisters because he was closer with my brother. Truthfully, none of the sisters were upset about it. However, our grandmother hit the roof and insisted he invite all of us. Except this time, he invited everyone but me. His father and I had words a few years ago, and I guess this was my penitence. I wasn’t thrilled, and it was short-sighted since I live on a different coast and couldn’t attend the wedding, anyway. I was very hurt, however, that 3 of my siblings went (there are 5 of us). Now, my mother wants me to attend a family reunion to be hosted by this family, and I’ve flat-out refused. Ted is right about not wanting Sally at the wedding, but he really created this bomb, not Sally. He needs to speak up.

    1. MissDisplaced*

      No, TED did not create this bomb, Sally did. Sally knows damn well what she said to Ted, and knows that’s why she wasn’t invited. But it is SALLY who is now creating even more office drama by making a “poor me” case because Ted didn’t invite her and influencing others not to go. Sally should’ve sucked it up Ted wouldn’t like her much after telling someone that bombshell. What gall. I hate Sally.

      1. Quinn*

        I doubt she has any idea why he didn’t invite her. He should have used his words like an adult not played these dumb games.

        1. Gerry Keay*

          Oh come on, having someone tell you to your face they literally prayed to god that you died is pretty jarring and can totally cause people to freeze and not know how to respond. Ted isn’t playing games, he’s distressed and hurt and doesn’t know how to navigate this conflict that literally no one should ever have to navigate.

            1. allathian*

              Suspicious how, exactly? I take it that you’ve never had issues with self-confidence, or anxiety, or a feeling of worthlessness…

              I feel very sorry for Ted, it can’t be fun to be him. A group of people he thinks of as his friends has basically rejected him because of a drama llama.

              Sally confronted him when he’d just returned to work after a potentially fatal accident. Even if she had prayed for Bob to be spared, even at the cost of Ted’s life, that should be between her and her deity. If she felt remorse about her uncharitable thoughts, she should’ve talked to her spiritual adviser, not the “victim” of those thoughts. Then she added insult to injury by asking Ted to agree with her assessment about Bob being a much more worthy person than himself. Given his self-esteem issues, it’s entirely possible that Ted might’ve done so.

              That a person Ted considered a friend would do this is utterly beyond the pale. Frankly, Sally is toxic and should be fired for causing drama in the workplace. She probably won’t be, given the toxic culture there. Ted’s worked there for several years, and his ideas of what’s normal in a workplace have probably been skewed as a result.

              1. Despachito*

                This makes me wonder about the tight-knittedness and the friendliness at that place.

                They are working together for years, which means they are very likely not able to hide their true colors all that time. I’d bet there have been interpersonal issues before but Ted and LW are possibly experiencing the effect of a slowly boiling frog. (I actually have experienced a similar situation, and only looking backwards am I able to see the ubiquitous toxicity – I was not able to see it clearly then).

                So I’d bet that in fact they are by far NOT the friends the soon-to-be married couple consider them to be, and there is no friendship whose loss should be mourned.

      1. Boof*

        By not inviting sally but also not saying why… I mean, I understand WHY but it’s kind of obviously going to blow up, even the LW warned him

  154. mlem*

    “Good news, everyone! We’re reworking the guest list! Let’s see who makes it this time. First, raise your hand if you DID NOT tell me that you prayed for me to die! … Not so fast there, Sal.”

  155. banoffee pie*

    This might be the worst letter yet. If I were Ted I’d tell everybody what she said, why should he look like the bad guy? Sounds like he’s got a bit down after the accident and gone down a rabbit hole of thinking everybody agrees with Sally. It’s a shame he’s let her rubbish about ‘second-tier man’ into his head but sometimes the daftest people can get into your head unfortunately. You know you shouldn’t be listening to them, but you do!
    Sounds to me like Sally is in love with Bob (marital advice!). I wouldn’t want anything to do with with her again after this (even as another coworker, not just as Ted).

  156. Quinn*

    If it’s true then Ted should tell the reason and should have from the start. Why is he letting it impact work and still won’t say. But I doubt Sally said that and he doesn’t want to say because she will respond as such.

    I don’t doubt the LW. But I’ve known Teds. She probably told Bob she was praying for him. And talking up how saintly he was and how she didn’t want him to die and didn’t do the same for Ted. He felt bad but knew it was petty and told you she said that for sympathy.

    There is no reason he would have let this impact his work if he had a good reason to share with the team.

    1. Casper Lives*

      I’ve known Teds – people who are conflict avoidant to a fault. So conflict avoidant that they volunteer me for something, or won’t tell me if “no” but will complain I asked for a favor to others afterwords, or stress to the max / agonize about how to avoid something without “being the bad guy” by saying “no.”

      It’s more likely IMO that Ted is passive in general.

    2. Gerry Keay*

      I mean you clearly do doubt the LW seeing as you just made up an entirely different version of events based on your own personal experiences and then responded to your own fan fiction instead of the letter.

    3. Ginger Baker*

      This seems like a weirdly aggressive take. And EVEN IF your interpretation was 100% correct (which I have doubts about, having known some Sallys myself), it would still be a pretty egregious thing to go on and on about how much you prayed for the recovery of [the other person involved in my same accident] to my face, that just super is not appropriate and triply so from a coworker.

      1. Quinn*

        Why isn’t Ted telling anyone at work his perfectly rational reason for not inviting her? Because it didn’t happen that way.

        1. Ask a Manager* Post author

          It’s possible, but this level of certainty isn’t supported by the letter. “Have you considered your husband could be misrepresenting exactly what was said?” is fine; “I am sure your husband is lying” is not, per the commenting rules. So I’m closing this subthread.

    4. Yorick*

      This is ridiculous. Why would Ted lie to his fiance about the conversation? He could have very well told his fiance your version and explained that it made him feel like Sally wished he would die instead. Instead he told her what Sally actually said. It is in no way helpful for you to make up another version of events.

  157. irene adler*

    Aw gee, just indicate that for SALLY’S comfort, she was omitted from the guest list because the last thing Ted & LW want is to ask Sally to celebrate the life event for someone she doesn’t really care for. Certainly folks can understand not making guests feel awkward or uncomfortable.

  158. HannahS*

    I really don’t believe that people need to be endlessly shielded from the consequences of their actions. Ted is under no obligation to shield Sally from the natural consequences of what she said. It was extremely (and possibly excessively) gracious of Ted to not hit the forking roof and tell Sally off and inform HR that she PRAYED FOR HIS DEATH at the time. Now that it’s causing strife and further negatively impacting Ted, he should, as Captain Awkward puts it, “return the awkward to sender.”

    1. Despachito*

      Technically, she did not pray for his death.

      (Not that what she did was fine by any possible manner, but there is still a difference, and if she denied that she prayed for his death, she would be technically right. I’d rather not give her such a weapon to wield – what she DID say is outrageous enough per se).

      1. HannahS*

        Really? You want to rules-lawyer the difference between “I prayed that you would die” and “I prayed that if someone died it would be you,” as if there’s a difference that matters to Ted, the OP, and the HR department?

        1. Despachito*

          I repeat that I think that what Sally INDEED did was wrong enough, and if it gets escalated to the HR, it’d better be accurate.

          But yes, I do see a big difference between actively praying for someone to die (in such a case, I’d possibly be worried that Sally might attempt to kill Ted), and praying that “if someone has to die, let it be Ted rather than Bob (which is still pretty awful but in this case I’d not be worried for Ted’s physical safety).

          I am not sure what HR department could do in that, too. Several topics ago, Allison said what we should and what we should not expect HR to do, and I wonder why should they meddle in someone’s wedding.

          1. Tuesday*

            I see a difference too. What she actually said was bizarre enough, and it’s better in these situations to be very accurate and straightforward than to give people a way to claim that you’re exaggerating.

          2. Working Hypothesis*

            HR shouldn’t be meddling with the wedding, but it — the boss, whose job it really is — should definitely be meddling with the people who won’t speak to Ted to the point where it’s messing up the work. That’s definitely the manager’s job to interfere with.

  159. Blllllpt*

    This is like Odd Girl Out levels of behavior. I think Sally knows exactly what she’s doing and even if Ted does set the record straight she is calculating and manipulative enough to make herself look like the wronged party regardless. I think it’s time for a new job with coworkers who are less enmeshed with each other. You can’t repair anything when the queen bee turns against you, just like in the movie, all you can do is make peace with yourself and move on.

  160. Katherine*

    Wouldn’t Sally’s comments have been worth bringing up with the boss at the time? I can’t imagine surviving a serious accident, then having to work every day with a person who came out and told me, completely unnecessarily, that they prayed for me not to survive. Wouldn’t a manager want to know this information?

  161. Health Insurance Nerd*

    Nothing to add here except for PLEASE, LW, PLEASE SEND AN UPDATE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE!!!!!

    Just, Sally, wow.

  162. Deeny*

    PLEASE tell the rest of the office what Sally said. Even if Sally ends up going to this wedding, it seems as though a lot of damage has already been done and the rest of the office should know that Ted isn’t just being a jerk here. Plus I desperately want an update…

  163. His Grace*

    This is an absolute disaster.

    Sally had no business praying for someone’s death. And she certainly had no business telling your future husband this, especially since he has worked with Sally for so long and genuinely liked her.

    I am not a fan of burning bridges (unless absolutely necessary), but it’s time everyone put their cards on the table. Ted needs to explain to everyone why Sally and her husband were not invited. If this blows up years’ worth of goodwill and professional camaraderie, then so be it. But deliberately freezing out someone in meetings is immature and asinine.

  166. Despachito*

    Or elope.

    You will save a lot of money and nerves.

    You true friends at work will understand, and the rest… can go pound sand.

    (I’d perfectly understand if someone started creating drama for the bride and groom, that they decide to cancel the big ceremony and have a quiet just-family do.

    I’ve seen it happen once, actually. I was invited to a cousin’s wedding, and before the ceremony, the bride’s divorced father and her maternal grandpa argued about who is going to lead her down the isle. It ended in a massive fight (thank God only verbal) and the bride and groom virtually eloped on the spot, and cancelled the planned lunch. They explained it briefly and apologized to us the innocent bystanders, and I did not mind one bit. It was THEIR wedding and whatever they decided to do was good for THEM.

  167. Ann O'Nemity*

    Who else is pessimistic that a good resolution is even possible at this point?

    I can’t think of better advice than what Alison has shared, and I particularly like Rusty’s suggested wording above. BUT, I think at this point it’s all too likely that Sally can deny, twist, or explain away her hurtful comments. Heck, Sally could claim she was out of her mind with grief, had no idea what she said, and can’t imagine why Ted didn’t try resolving it with her months ago. Note, I’m not trying to excuse what she did at all!! I just worry that it’s going to be hard to fix this mess now.

    1. Despachito*

      I agree with you that it is hard to imagine a good outcome.

      However, I’d offer a different angle of view. Sally may deny whatever she wants – this is not a trial, and Ted absolutely does not have to defend himself and justify that there was indeed a valid reason for him not to invite Sally. Nobody is entitled to get an invitation, and the thought that any third person – not paying for the wedding, or even close to the newlyweds – should require an explanation, or even stomp their feet to enforce that non-existing right – is utterly absurd.

      It is true that to invite the entire group but one person is a statement, and a pretty strong one. But as a third-person invitee, I can only assume Ted has his own reasons and that something serious probably happened between him and Sally, but by no means does Ted owe me or the rest of the team any explanation. He might explain if he feels like it but if he doesn’t, I am wildly of my way to try to convince him to change his mind.

  168. Mrs. Hawiggins*

    I don’t think I need to read past, “A coworker prayed for my fiance’s death,” to know this is absolutely outrageous. Does this person go around saying, “You look fat in that dress,” too? If this was my company, and I had the ability, knowing me I would have clapped back with, “I dreamed last night that you were fired.” And thennnnnn….

  169. Tuesday*

    So the Grim Reaper was promised a life, and he’s not leaving until appeased. That’s soooo weird Sally, why didn’t you just hope that both of them would make it? I just got here, but I had to add my WTF.

    And yes, Ted needs to tell people what’s going on, or he’ll continue to look like a jerk for inviting everyone but Sally and supposedly all because they didn’t have the room for two more seats.

  170. Tuesday*

    Invite Sally, and then at the end of the night announce, “If only some of you make it home alive, I hope it’s everyone but Sally. No disrespect to you, Sally, but you’re in a class by yourself.”

  171. Macaroni Penguine*

    ” coworker prayed for my fiancé’s death so we didn’t invite her to our wedding … and now there is drama.”
    Reaction: What?
    *reads the article*
    Reaction: (blinks) (perplexed expression)
    Yeah, just try whatever Alison says OP, ’cause I got nothing.

  172. SnappinTerrapin*

    “We understand and accept your decision to decline our invitation. However, we have no intention of discussing the reasons for inviting or not inviting anyone else. We’re sure you understand that simply is not appropriate.”

  173. Candi*

    First, LW, don’t cave to Sally’s manipulation.

    Second, Ted needs to tell people. Sally’s deliberately pushing this off the rails to embarrass and shame both of you to get her way.

    Third, I hope you update us, with you two happily married, and I hope Ted has work in a healthier environment.

    Best wishes.

  174. MLH*

    Oh my. As an anxious person with adhd related rejection sensitive dysphoria, this scenario is my absolute worst nightmare. I really feel for him.

    2. KS*

      sSe, my RSD-having self would have gone down the opposite road and burned her whole existence down. I’d be telling people what a psycho I worked with, starting with our boss.

  175. Jon*

    I think that it’s important to recognize how Ted is framing Sally’s statement (which many commenters appear to be taking at face value) – Sally’s statement is that if one of the two of the men had to die, she’d rather it be Bill. It seems to be quite a leap to interpet this as Sally praying for Ted’s death. I imagine Ted would not have interpreted Sally’s statement thus, nor become preoccupied with the idea he is inferior, if he didn’t already harbor beliefs that he is inferior/unlovable/incompetent. This is something he’d really benefit from unpacking in therapy, so that he doesn’t continue to lash out passive aggressively in the future in similar fashion as he appears to have done here.

      1. Former Employee*

        “When Ted returned to work, a team member, “Sally,” told him she had a confession to make. She said that while they had been in surgery, she prayed that if God had to let one of them die, she hoped it would be him. (WTF?!?)

        Ted was shocked and asked why. He said she gushed on and on about what a “saint” Bob is. (Her examples were that Bob gives her great advice on her struggling marriage and has loaned her money when she was in a tight spot.) She finished by saying, “No disrespect to you, but Bob is in a class by himself. You have to admit you can’t measure up to that” and walked away.”

        Sally essentially did say that she thought Ted was an inferior human being who can’t measure up to Bob.

        I would have been inclined to talk to my manager because I would have had difficulties working with someone like this going forward. Not because I have an inferiority complex, but because I would be concerned about possible problems resulting from Sally’s attitude. What if she is doing work on two projects, one for me and for the person who “is in a class by himself”? Maybe she’ll work really hard on the other project and do a half a**ed job on mine.

    2. pancakes*

      Eh? I agree he’d benefit from unpacking some of his ideas in therapy, but there’s no suggestion that he lashed out in any way. Not wanting horribly crass Sally at his wedding isn’t lashing out.

    3. KS*

      “Sally’s statement is that if one of the two of the men had to die” She was already batsh*t from the word go. Why would one of them “have” to die at all? This is unhinged across the board.

  176. Rhydian*

    Evil twin would love to see this go to Defcon 1. It would require alternative employment for Ted however.

    Invite all to the wedding.

    Best man’s speech: Thank you all for sharing this special day with the lovely couple. Aunt Mavis, great job on the flowers. A round of applause for Aunt Mavis everyone. And on table 6 there are all of Ted’s colleagues, including Alice (et al) who insisted Sally – stand up Sally – be invited even though Sally prayed for Ted to die from the car crash. Let’s hear it for Sally! Sally yeah! The one person here who wanted this to be a funeral not a wedding. And what about the bridesmaids? Great job on not tripping on the train! etc. etc.

    ( •̀ᴗ•́ )و ̑̑

    2. KS*

      Ted needs alternative employment. Burn it all down. And Sally gets nothing. No invite. Nuke it from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure.

  178. MeowMixers*

    WTF. She prayed that he would die. WTF she thinks her opinion is important enough that she gets to decide who lives and dies?

    LW – Your Fiance and you need to be frank about this. You don’t have to save face in this. It’s okay to say “Sally prayed for Ted’s death and then told him in person.”

    One of the things I’ve learned in my job is to not hide others’ mistreatment. No, he doesn’t have to tell the whole group. But he can tell those who are freezing out about it.

  179. Jan*

    Bloody hell! I’ve read about some outrageous people on here over the years, but Sally’s got to take the crown. As others have said, why couldn’t she have prayed for the recovery of both men? Even if she didn’t like Ted as much as Bob, there’s no need to say it out loud.

    OP, I’m sorry Ted’s going through this. In his shoes, I’d just tell them “Sally said something unforgivably rude that I don’t want to offend anyone by repeating, and that’s why she’s not coming to our wedding.” Not a lie, but it doesn’t cause further drama either. You sound like a very supportive fiancee, and I’m glad he’s got you in his corner.

  180. SwingingAxeWolfie*

    Sally’s inappropriate remarks have been unpicked to death – as has Ted’s right to be upset and the etiquette of inviting everyone-except-Sally to the wedding. However, after a scan of the comments, I can’t see anyone remarking on the problem of how tight-knit this workplace is in general. Normally Alison would be all over this (I guess there’s a lot there), but (e.g.) Bob loaning Sally money and being a confidant for her marital issues is ringing alarm bells to me in isolation to her horrid comment.

    I don’t think these dynamics can change now, but when it’s time for Ted to move on, maybe you should both adjust your expectations for the next workplace and not expect to gain these sorts of relationships from it.

    1. SnappinTerrapin*

      The problems you point out are real. A recurring theme in the comments is that Ted needs a better job, in a better environment.

      I suspect LW has already suggested that Ted look for another job.

    2. pancakes*

      I have seen a few people talking about that. I don’t think the problem here is that this group is tight-knit. It’s not something I seek out in a workplace and I’d be wary of any workplace branding itself as such, but two of my favorite jobs in the past were working with weirdly tight-knit groups. We hung out a lot after work, took some vacations together, had a couple of Thanksgivings together, and mostly had a blast. If the people are well-balanced, smart, and fun it’s not inherently problematic to enjoy spending time together.

      Loaning money to coworkers generally doesn’t fit with any of those characteristics, so I think you have a point there, but even so, people who are well-balanced and reasonably mature can handle it without imploding their relationships, if they want to.

  181. Wasn't me!*

    Ted should tell Sally exactly why she’s not invited. And he should tell her friends that he has a good reason for not inviting her, but because he’s a decent human, he’s not going to talk about it. And if they refuse to come to the wedding, then good bloody riddance.

    1. wow*

      No, no no no. He should have brought this up with all of them, with no mitigation, a long time ago. “She prayed for my death. I cannot forgive that.”

  182. lilsheba*

    Ohhhhhh this is why religious zealots are a poison to everything. They insist on pushing religion on you, and have stupid expectations of everyone they run into. And when you call them out on it they act like children, which this woman is. And if her god is so great, surely that god can give her extra money and make her marriage perfect?

  183. wow*

    About this, you have to tell. You aren’t being the bigger person or the more professional employee by keeping silent. There is no good reason to keep this silent, and there never was.

  184. Anony4663*

    I would tell the entire office what Sally said. what she said was wrong, do pin this on her, so it won’t look bad on you.

  185. Turtle*

    It’s clearly not sustainable (not to mention dishonest) for OP and Ted to stick to the “venue was full” explanation. If they’d rather not recount this very strange and unpleasant conversation with the whole group, it might be best to say something like, “Sally said something very hurtful to Ted after the car crash that made us not wish to have her at our wedding. We’re sorry that this has become such a bone of contention, but that is our final decision, and we hope the rest of you choose to join us on our special day.”

    Strongly second the suggestion of talking with Sally first if they haven’t already.

  186. Morgan*

    Okay, I read through all the comments and can we address Sally’s true motive? To hopefully assuage Ted’s fear of not measuring up.

    Sally prayed for the man she could get more out of, not the saint. Loaning money and giving marital advice for free is her USING him, combined with Bob having poor boundaries and wanting to be helpful. Please note the difference between Bob being more useful, and Bob being more USED. Her greater loyalty has literally been bought — even if that wasn’t his intent.

    I’m curious to know what she ranks Bob vs her spouse she’s having all those issues with and if she’s acknowledged, even to herself, that aforementioned-upthread crush. She’s ranking people by what she can get out of them, even if that’s not her framing.

  190. raida7*

    blech. This is a case of Person-That-Believes-Themself-To-Be-Nice.
    She prayed for a friend to survive even if that means someone else dies, and since tha tdoesn’t align with being nice/good she feels guilty, so to feel better she gets it off her chest *not* to the friend who might judge her but has the most right to tell her he doesn’t ever want her to do that again in his favour, she tells the other person.
    And in the process justifies her position to convince herself that she didn’t really do anythign wrong, she’s not actually a bad person at all, she’s definitely still nice/good.

    Honestly the best bet here would have been for the two guys and LW to sit down and have a conversation about this. If he agrees and says “Yes I am better than you in every way” you know he’s a tool and that lowers him in hubby’s estimation. If he doesn’t agree with prayer-lady, hubby gets to say how it’s made him feel, the other guy gets a chance to point out his own failings and hubby’s strong points, etc.
    All good for hubby’s mental health.
    And then prayer-lady can have an uncomfortable conversation with the great friend she put on a pedestal who probably thinks she was wrong, rude, cruel, and he thinks less of her now.

    Regardless – tell everyone that when someone tells you they prayed for your death and why wouldn’t they since ol’ mate is clearly just so much worth living, that person isn’t invited to your wedding.

  191. Dutch*

    Another red flag is not one member of the, supposedly close-knit, work team noticing the months of change in the relationship between Ted and Sally.

  192. Kim*

    Ted needs to stand up and tell them ALL what happened. I mean, what she did is at LEAST workplace bullying. He SHOULD have said something to begin with but _now_ is the next best time.

    He also needs to look for a new job, there’s now too much trauma associated with this one.

  193. Rui*

    The catalyst is that Sally was being a jerk to tell such an unkind and mean-spirited thing to someone recently recovered from tragedy; but I agree with Alison here, the root cause is messed up work place culture in Ted’s team. It might seem harmonious when nothing serious happened; but professional boundary had been crossed long ago and it’s just a matter of time an event like this will happen and harming productivity.

    Another serious concern is that professional ethics of certain members of Ted’s team is questionable at best, namely the women (not saying this in any gender bias sense; merely stating my observation based on OP’s description). I get that people will read into it when one person is singled out for different treatment; but wedding invitation is a private matter to begin with and it shouldn’t spill over to professional space in a major way. Refusing to speak to a colleague to the point of impacting works is just outright unprofessional and childish; if I were the manager I would give all the women in this team at least a verbal warning.

    I would actually go straight to the manager to discuss the whole matter if I were in Ted’s shoes; and if the manager is competent I would imagine he/she will have individual conversation with each of the women in the team, including Sally. With Sally the manager should address her mean-spirited conversation with Ted; and with the other female members on their professional ethics and conducts. They are equally serious.

  194. Marzipan Shepherdess*

    Of course she shouldn’t have said that she’d prayed for one person to be saved over another – that should go without saying (but it doesn’t, unfortunately!) Still…do you really think that she has the power to actually affect the choices made by her deity if THAT’S what she’s praying for? People pray for all kinds of things all the time and some of those prayer requests are better off NOT granted! This sounds like a bizarre wish that won’t be taken seriously by HER deity (as you see, it wasn’t granted!) and would be better off dropped by both of you.

    1. Katherine*

      I don’t think anyone is worried that her prayer was going to work, and that the fiancé would be killed as a result of this wing nut’s prayers. The far bigger issue is that this woman felt the need to tell the fiancé this information. It was
      – completely unnecessary- seriously, $1,000 to the person who can tell me what purpose it served to tell the fiancé
      – cruel and traumatizing, especially when said to a person who had just survived a serious accident
      – compounding the offense by basically trying to force the fiancé to agree with her assessment that the other guy was more worthy.

      Maybe consider how *you* would feel if you had to work every day with a person who told you to your face she prayed for you to die and hey, no offense, she thought you’d understand, you’re just kind of a zero compared to Bob! Then maybe reconsider telling the fiancé to drop it.

  195. KS*

    Nope. 1. Talk to cray cray Sally on Webex WITH MANAGER, don’t give that scary person the benefit of the doubt 2. be glad if her cray cray friends bail, too 3. look for a new job YESTERDAY.

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