open thread – September 17-18, 2021

by Alison Green on September 17, 2021

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about (that includes school). If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please do not repost it here, as it may be in my queue to answer.

You may also like:
{ 1,206 comments }

{ 1,206 comments… read them below }

  1. hmmm*

    I know this is more a personal situation than professional, but I don’t want to mess up the professional angle. I feel selfish even thinking this way….. and yes, I am making a mountain out of a molehill.

    My extended family has the opportunity to take a once in a lifetime trip to a popular tourist destination for 10 days. A former coworker, James, lives in the area and works for a company that contracts out to the famous resort we will be staying at. I haven’t seen James in 15 years. The occassional “Facebook Likes and comments” that’s about the extent of our keeping in touch. James is meeting us for drinks one day on our trip.

    When planning this trip I admit I got caught up in the moment of actually going on vacation when I emailed James. We worked with an amazing travel agent who helped us accommodate for needs of our extended family as well as anything to avoid large crowds (covid concerns). As a result, a lot of activities and meals were pre booked.

    After getting our itinerary, I honestly don’t have a minute to breathe on this vacation (that’s ok that’s part of the appeal for where we are going). While we will literally get to do and see everything, we will have very little/ if any, downtime including sleep. Most people don’t visit this area at such an extreme, but for us this trip’s specific events will be difficult to experience all at once again. Geographically we will probably get to visit again sooner than later.

    I was looking at meeting up with James as getting reacquainted with an old coworker who had good taste in music and movies. James’ well known employer has offices in the geographical area where I live. I have NEVER used this as a networking connection but selfishly wanted to keep this filed away. I would never ask James to “go out on a limb” for a business connection but perhaps for a general phone number I could call to make an inquiry. The chances of ever using this as a business connection are slim to none.

    I guess I’m conflicted if I am shooting myself in the foot explaining that my immediate family and I might not be able to meet with James or if we do it will literally only be for a drink for a half hour? Am I selfish for even thinking of the business side, when I’m more interested in saying hi to an old acquaintance? I feel like I’m burning a bridge (professionally and socially) if we have to skip on drinks.

    1. londonedit*

      I don’t think you’d burn any bridges by simply saying ‘I’m so sorry – I’ve just had the full itinerary for our trip and it really is jam packed. I don’t think we’ll have time to fit in drinks after all, but I’ll let you know if I’m ever visiting again!’ You said that it’s not really a business connection you’d be likely to use, so I don’t think you have to worry about somehow damaging your professional reputation, and if James is halfway sensible he’ll realise that you’re on holiday, you’ve got a lot planned and you’re travelling with your family, so it’s not outrageous of you to have realised that actually your schedule is more full than you’d realised and you can’t fit everything in on this trip.

      1. hmmm*

        I’m hoping we will have the opportunity to meet up on another trip. He’s now a “local” to that area so James should realize how packed our itinerary is. I just hate to drag him out to a tourist area (I think he lives maybe 20 minutes from the outskirts of the area) for a 30 minute drink.

    2. NT interpeter needed*

      A half hour for coffee would be apropos, and for drinks, maybe nearly? I feel like meeting for a drink is a drink and 45 minutes of chat?

      2. Yorick*

        I agree. He might even be relieved if you say you need to keep it short. I think it would be perfectly fine to cancel politely, but it would be ok to squeeze it in, too.

        If you really want to keep the meeting with James for the business connection, you could meet him for a drink at the bar of the restaurant where your family is eating dinner, or something like that.

    3. Nannerdoodle*

      If you barely talk to James now, it’s highly unlikely that you’ll burn a bridge socially by saying that you ended up being too busy with all the other vacation activities or only have time for a very short visit. Make sure to solidify what your plans with him are, no matter what they end up being, as soon as possible. You don’t want him to block off hours of his time to catch up only for you to blow him off at the last minute. He’s probably looking at the whole situation of catching up with an old coworker he has enjoyed talking to in the past the same way you are, so it really shouldn’t be a big deal (unless you know James to be someone who took great offense to plans changing in the past, in which case you’d need to handle it more delicately).
      As far as burning the bridge professionally, there’s not really much of a bridge there anymore! You haven’t really worked together in 15 years, so the most that would make sense for him to do at this point is give a phone number, unless your work was absolutely amazing all those years ago. Whether or not you meet up won’t change that.

      1. quill*

        Yeah, unless you have already set a specific time that he’s agreed to, you haven’t really affected his plans. If you have and you cancel because “I didn’t realize we’d need so much travel time between things” with plenty of advance warning, you’re at most a momentary irritation?

        If you just made noises about “we should meet up for drinks” and don’t yet have an appointment, it’s even less of a cost, so long as you politely and honestly tell him that with all the details ironed out you don’t think you’ll be able to fit him in.

        1. hmmm*

          we did option 2 – we should meet up for drinks. He emailed us his schedule but we’re still figuring it all out in the next few days.

          1. quill*

            Then just let him know, sooner rather than later, that you’re booked solid & appreciate him trying to make the time.

      2. hmmm*

        James works for a well known company. I just worry that one time I need to network with him, he’ll remember I had to cancel drinks. But you are right, it’s been 15 years.

        1. Yorick*

          As long as you’re nice about it and you don’t cancel at the last minute, he’s not going to care. Unless he’s so awful that you probably couldn’t count on his help anyway.

          1. Uranus Wars*

            This is basically where I land. This happens to people often – you just think you can fit 14 hours worth of things into 10 hours. If you are nice and truthful, he should be fine! You probably aren’t the first visitor who reached out, then was like “oh, hell!”

    4. pancakes*

      It would be really weird for him to be so vindictive over such a minor thing. It’s not as if you having a packed schedule is any sort of reflection on his personality. You will almost certainly have a better sense of his character than anyone here offering advice, but telling him you can’t meet up after all seems very unlikely to do any damage to your relationship with him.

      I will add that for me personally, it is sometimes a relief when out of town visitors don’t want to meet up while they’re here. I have lived in NYC for a little over 20 years and do not want to spend time visiting, say, Times Square with them! Drinks elsewhere, sure, but if they’re too busy sightseeing that’s not something to be offended by. I think most people who live in popular tourist destinations will have experienced with this.

      1. hmmm*

        We live in the NYC area too – I totally get it! James still seems to be very laid back. With things reopening and the events we’re attending happening, I’m sure he gets that we will be busy.

      2. R*

        I was going to say, as a Millennial introvert who lived in NYC for a while, canceling plans with someone is the greatest gift you can give them. This might work in your favor.

    5. Filosofickle*

      Nah, you’re fine. It’s totally reasonable to say “it turns out my family has booked every second of this trip for family activities, and I won’t be able to get away and meet you after all”. It’s a big family trip. You’re focusing on what matters. Have fun!

      1. hmmm*

        It was nice reconnecting via email. My immediate family has said we would like to go back to the geographic area soon. So I hope it’s something we can meet up again another time.

      2. Seeking Second Childhood*

        ^This. Your family has overbooked you.
        (Which reminds me, I’ve been told to look up the old movie “If It’s Tuesday, This Must Be Belgium”… you might want to show your $FamilyCruiseDirector before you are all committed to a schedule with zero down-time.)

        1. allathian*

          Yeah, this.

          You do you, but I feel exhausted just reading about a trip that’s so jam-packed with activities that there’s no time to wing it.

          I’ve been on a trip like this in my twenties, although I’ll say it was with friends rather than family. We spent so much time rushing from one place to another that I had no time to actually enjoy any of it. On the last two days of the trip, I dropped out of everything except the meals, and I was barely on speaking terms with our “tour director” friend on the flight back.

          I guess I’m lucky in that we have long vacations here, because the following week I was still off work, and I spent it recovering from that trip.

          But yeah, James should understand if you cancel plans early enough for him to plan something else instead.

    6. Teapot Repair Technician*

      I doubt James would be disappointed to discover that “meeting for drinks” means a 45-minute hangout near your hotel (or in the hotel lobby) with just you and not your entire family. That what’s happened most times I’ve agreed to meetup with an old acquaintance traveling through town.

      1. hmmm*

        The resort we’re staying at has easy transportation to things within and outside of the resort. Part of James’ job’s perks is he has free access to all these areas and even uses them a lot socially. While as a tourist this is an easy mode of transportation, I am not sure of how it is for someone driving. I’d hate to drag James out for 30 minutes if it turns into a whole evening for him if he drives. He said he does not want to meet at the hotel bar as that is where he conducts a lot of business for the resort

        2. I should really pick a name*

          Let him decide if he’s okay with that or not. Just make it clear that you won’t be offended if he doesn’t want to make the trip for a short visit.

    7. Purple Cat*

      If I was James I wouldn’t be expecting to meet with you and your family, I would just be expecting “you”.
      I also would never be offended if someone couldn’t carve out time of their busy family vacation to make it after all.
      A quick coffee or very specifically “one drink” before you go off to dinner reservations is also perfectly fine. Someone “famous” recently commented on how specific end times for social events has made them MORE social because they’re not worried about extracting themselves. So James might really appreciate a hard stop time.

      1. hmmm*

        James is aware he is meeting my immediate family – not the whole family reunion. I specifically mentioned in my email that we had time for one drink.

      1. hmmm*

        I think I got caught up in the moment of having my first vacation in 3 years. James seems to have lost touch with our old coworkers so he seemed to be excited when I touched base.

    9. RagingADHD*

      You are not burning a bridge. You’re overthinking it.

      “James, I’m so sorry, but with all the extended family on this trip, my schedule has spiraled out of control. Can I take a raincheck on drinks? We’ll probably be in town again sooner than later without the whole crew, let’s try again then.”

      You sound really overstressed about this trip, because the real-world stakes on this are nonexistent. I hope you can relax and enjoy your vacation!

      1. hmmm*

        Trust me when I say this is a much needed vacation. The company James works for is very well known and very hard to make connections with. Due to how the company is structured geographically I really don’t have any reason to need this connection, it would be nice to keep this connection in mind. As for socially, I feel bad canceling on someone when we are so close and our only obligations are ultra fun things.

        1. Lily Rowan*

          Like others have said, give him notice and it’s no big deal at all. AND you’ve rekindled this nice association for him — he’ll remember that you wanted to get together, which is a net positive, I’d say.

    10. Momma Bear*

      I have had friends I’ve known for 20 years not be able to catch up with me when I was in their area. If it comes up, reiterate simply that it’s a family trip and the schedule is set by the group. IF there is an opportunity, perhaps reach out last-minute, but otherwise don’t sweat it, IMO. Or just be upfront, “I am sorry, but the schedule with the family is so tight I can only catch up for a short drink. Does that work for you?” Let him decide yes/no.

      If you’ll be back in the near future, cite that. “I can’t this time, but we’ll probably be back in November.”

    11. Pyjamas*

      I’ll be the contrarian and say that while James will understand, you are putting a prebooked reservation ahead of a living breathing person. You are saying that the cost of cancelling one of these events is too great to waste. What if you all get tired or the weather is bad on one of the days? Will you drag the family to whatever it is you booked bc you had a reservation?

      Alternatively, can you duck out of a family event and have a 1-1 with James? Are you so joined at the hip to your extended family that this is infeasible? Seems like you might appreciate a change to get away from the crowd.

      1. allathian*

        Yeah, I agree. If you’re with your family for 10 days, surely they can do without you for an hour or so while you catch up with James?

        In James’s shoes, I couldn’t care less about meeting your family, either immediate or extended. If you’re my friend, you’re the person I’d want to meet.

    12. Delta Delta*

      First, this trip sounds like it’s not going to be a vacation at all, with everything so tightly scheduled with a entire extended family. Second, you reached out to a friend to catch up, and it actually does seem flaky to back out. It’s not clear why your whole family would have to meet up with a work friend from 15 years ago. Perhaps we don’t have all the details but it seems like you could explain to the family that you’re seeing an old coworker and you’ll need an hour one evening to do that.

  2. Snorlax*

    I’m giving notice at my job on Monday. I’ve decided to retire. I will offer to stay until the end of October if they want me to. I feel horrible guilt for leaving, because we are terribly busy all the time and this will put a bigger burden on my coworkers. Our team is poorly managed so we are chronically understaffed and overworked. I feel like I’m sort of screwing over my colleagues, but I don’t want to stay anymore. What is the best way for me to mitigate my guilt?

    1. Msnotmrs*

      Honestly, when I’ve been in your position, the guilt sort of washed away from me as I went through the notice period. I started to see it as a “them” problem rather than an “us” problem, and started to gear up to being outside the situation. I don’t know if I DID anything to make that happen, per se, it just kind of worked itself out.

      1. Windchime*

        I think that, when we give notice, we start to kind of detach and look forward to the next stage. It’s almost like we have the ability to see things more clearly from the outside instead of as an insider. I was off yesterday but logged into an “important announcement” kind of meeting and during the whole thing I was, “Meh. I’m gone in 2 weeks.” I’m just……..done.

    2. foolofgrace*

      Well, you could keep in mind that if they needed to let you go for some reason, they wouldn’t hesitate. Your manager might feel a modicum of guilt but the company would do what is best for the company, and you should do what’s best for you.

    3. Panicked*

      The best advice I ever received was that the company was there before you and will be there after you. If it’s not, that is a fault on them, not on you. No one is forcing your coworkers to stay there and and decent person will want what’s best for you. Retire, enjoy it, and don’t think twice!

    4. Liz*

      While its normal to feel guilty, the more important thing is you have to worry about YOU. If retiring is what will make YOU happy, less stressed, etc etc etc., then go ahead and do it. They’ll manage; everyone generally does. And once you go, its not your problem how they get things done.

    5. Sleet Feet*

      A mints notice is generous. No guilt. They will find someone. If they don’t capitalize on your long notice and end up short handed that’s a then problem.

    6. ThatGirl*

      It’s business, not personal. Your coworkers are free to look for new jobs or retire too, and would you fault them if they did?

    7. Dittany*

      You’re not screwing over your colleagues. Whoever is responsible for making your team “poorly managed so we are chronically understaffed and overworked” is screwing over your colleagues. You’re not responsible for giving your organization CPR for the rest of your life.

      1. Aquawoman*

        This. If this was well managed, your retirement would not affect them in the way you’re concerned about.
        This is your life you’re talking about, and not retiring would be giving up your time to enable your employer to continue to mistreat people.

      3. Windchime*

        Giving the organization CPR is such a great way to put this. It shouldn’t be necessary to perform heroics day in and day out at your job; that is why the nurses and other medical staff are so horribly burned out right now. Because it’s way, way too much for people to do and unless you are literally saving lives, there is no need to be chronically understaffed and over-worked. We are sold a bill of goods, at least in the US, that we should put our jobs before everything else and work ourselves to the bone. There is more to life than work and I intend to go live it.

    8. Dust Bunny*

      It’s just . . . not your problem.

      You can’t fix this, so there is no use in feeling guilty about it. You’ve done your work there.

    9. 3DogNight*

      The guilt is normal. It’s probably part of the grieving process you’re going through. Work is almost 1/3 of our lives. You spend a lot of time with the people you work with, and you’re going to miss some of them.
      I would say, to combat the grief, think about a time when someone left unexpectedly. How long did it take your company to replace them or their work? Think about last time you took a REAL vacation (a week or more). How much work was there when you got back? Or was most of it taken care of? My point is, they can handle it. Your co-workers will have a bit more work until you’re replaced, but they’ll be okay.
      Good luck on the retirement! I hope you have some amazing plans!

      1. Annie Moose*

        Was going to say the same thing! Grief and guilt are completely normal emotions to feel, especially when you’ve been at a place a long time and know people well. One chapter in your life is closing, it’s expected that you’ll feel a little adrift, a little sad, a little bit of questioning what would happen if you made a different decision. Over time, these feelings will fade as you get into the next chapter of life.

        I hope you enjoy your retirement!

      2. Been There Seen That*

        I really like this 3Dog. Work is such a huge part of life. I never thought about leaving it in a grieving processing sort of way, but it makes so much sense to me.

    10. Dolly was Right*

      I think you may feel a shift once you put your notice in. I remember I felt similar and then when I put my notice in, it really shocked me how quickly everyone moved on to ‘how to manage without Dolly’. I became invisible to some of the people I supported on a daily basis. I’m not sure what your experience will be but that

      Also consider this- I don’t know what type of job you have or your company but I think you could be doing your colleagues a favor. I am a firm believer that companies need to reap what they sow when they overwork employees and when you stay on to help your colleagues, you’re only reinforcing to the company that what they are doing is OK. Also- don’t be surprised if you notice some colleagues following suite. It hits you VERY quickly when you realize how much your work BFF was the only thing keeping you motivated and your coworkers might realize it’s best for them to jump ship as well. My boss recently left my last job (there was a decent amount of turnover in the position before) and half of my team has exited in the following 3 months.

      1. ProducerNYC*

        Yes to this! I just left a job of 13 years, and once the shock of my leaving (I think they thought I’d be there forever) lifted after a few days, it was ‘let’s fill this position.’ Now it feels almost as if I was never there. Has really got me thinking about how much of ourselves we pour into a job that will get filled in a SECOND under any circumstance. I hope you have an amazing retirement, Snorlax!!!

    11. Cold Fish*

      If you are in the office…. cookies? I am very much in the “baked goods make bad news better” philosophy of life camp. But as everyone is saying, you deserve to retire. Chronically overworking and understaffing the company are not on you.

    12. Teapot Repair Technician*

      What is the best way for me to mitigate my guilt?

      Don’t offer to stay until the end of October. When I resigned my last job I felt guilty, and my guilt persisted throughout the notice period. But the moment I walked out the door for the last time it magically disappeared.

    13. quill*

      Excess stress tends to manifest as guilt when combined with leaving people or a project you care about. If you weren’t already stressed out, you might already be ready to kick back and say that your team has a bright future – on their own.

    14. R O U S*

      I want to encourage you in two ways, as someone who once left a job like that. 1 — I realized that once I was ready to go, I wasn’t as effective at supporting my coworkers or serving our (unbearable) clients as I had been even 6 months prior. Leaving and being replaced was good for me and for others. And 2— my departure from the role was healthy feedback for the organization : they realized it wasn’t a role that could be done by one person. Years later, they have 3 people splitting the job duties between them. It’s still pretty dysfunctional there from what I’ve heard, but the role turnover was unavoidable feedback, and now at least 70% of the job duties are completed each week. Put yourself first obviously, but realize that your departure has the potential to be really good at this time. Maybe you’ll find retirement is right for you, maybe you’ll pick up part time work in a few months, but this organization is no longer a match.

    15. Nicki Name*

      Read the last few paragraphs of this:

      https://issendai.com/psychology/sick-systems.html

      Once you’re out the door, you’ll be able to see that it isn’t you making your coworkers lives miserable. It’s the horrible company with horrible management. You are the only person you can save. Don’t feel guilt about saving yourself.

      Signed, someone who has felt similar guilt about leaving a terrible, understaffed job.

      2. NoLongerYoung*

        Fabulous link. It will be shared with some friends who are still at my (recently departed) old department. So true, so very true….

    16. Belle of the Midwest*

      My daughter’s former workplace had a bunch of people leave in the spring and she started looking for work shortly after her immediate supervisor gave notice. she was quiet until she got another job and put in her notice. She actually had the president of the company try to counter-offer and get her to stay but she knew better than to do that. sometimes it takes one person heading for the exit to give the rest of the crew the courage to follow suit. don’t look back.

    17. London Calling*

      Managing crises is what managers are for. You are doing what’s best for you. You don’t want to stay anymore. All you can do is document your processes as much as you can, train a replacement to the best of your ability and hand over a job that’s in as good a state as you can.

    19. Not So NewReader*

      1) Name a good time in the past that would have been better or even ideal for quitting. (I bet there isn’t one.)

      2)They have had [insert time frame] to correct the overworked and understaffed problem and they chose not to.
      People retiring is not a new thing that just starting happening in our society yesterday. We have all heard of the idea of retirement and companies all know they need to plan what to do if someone retires.

      3) Feeling bad for your coworkers is not the same as feeling bad for the company. You can give well-wishes to individuals and even express regret to individuals.

      4) Feel guilty and retire anyway. If you stay on you still will not fix all that is wrong there.

      5) Remember that retirement is a moment. Life continues after that. Start planning now how you will fill your days in your retirement.

    20. R*

      Go away for a day or two after you leave. I guarantee the moment you’re on a beach drinking something out of a coconut the guilt will reside, and if it doesn’t, then there are also drinks that come in pineapples.

    21. Workerbee*

      Just offer to stay whatever normal notice period it is, not beyond. You can still feel all the feels! You can stay in touch with colleagues! But put all the guilt where it belongs: On the company, on bad management, etc. Who knows, you may be the catalyst for others to take their own work lives back.

    22. Windchime*

      I gave my notice months ago, intending to retire in June. They asked me to stay on part-time to help finish up a project that I have the most knowledge about, so I agreed to stay on until the end of Sept. The project has been a bust because the data person I need to partner with was unavailable during most of my extension.

      I’m done. They asked me to stay another couple of months, but I’m done. Burned out and I just don’t want to work anymore. I realized that this project shouldn’t be a bigger priority for me than it is for the organization. If they can’t free up the data guy, then there is no point in me staying. Also, I’ve only worked here 5 years. They did just fine before I got there and they will be fine after I leave.

      Don’t feel guilty. This is business. We have one life and there is no point spending it doing something you don’t want to do in a job you don’t like. You’re not screwing over your colleagues; management is screwing them over by refusing to staff appropriately. Value your life and your time; if leaving is what you want to do, then you can leave and not feel guilty about it.

    24. Momma Bear*

      You put in your time and it’s all business. Your coworkers have the option to leave or stay after your departure. You do what you need to do for yourself. Setting yourself on fire to keep others warm is not really great for anyone in the long run. ENJOY your retirement!

    26. Night Vale Seems Good By Comparison*

      I haven’t seen anyone else mention this, so: when other co-workers have left (I’m sure there’s been some with such a poorly managed company), did you view them as “abandoning/betraying” you personally, or were you happy for them? Give yourself the same grace you give your colleagues, and realize they will do the same for you. None of you are responsible for poor management.

      Offer to be a reference for co-workers who may also want to escape! And don’t agree to stay longer than you want to. A healthy company would use that notice period wisely, but what will your company do? Pile on my work and make no attempt to hire a replacement probably.

    27. Sara without an H*

      Our team is poorly managed so we are chronically understaffed and overworked. I feel like I’m sort of screwing over my colleagues, but I don’t want to stay anymore.

      Snorlax, someone is definitely screwing over your team, but it isn’t you. To paraphrase Alison, your organization’s management sucks and isn’t going to change.

      I retired at the end of May. I made the decision the previous summer when campus administration (I worked in higher ed) decreed that everybody had to come back to campus for fall term. I masked up and started plotting my exit.

      Instead of “guilt,” think of what you’re feeling as “mourning.” You had a certain role in your organization and developed relationships with your colleagues. The work sounds hard and thankless, but there were probably some satisfactions involved in it, right? Rather than guilt, think of the dislocation you feel now as a natural mourning process for your old role and life.

      You’ve given your employers generous notice. Concentrate on documenting your work as well as you can and brief a colleague or two about where and how you’re leaving any uncompleted projects. (Do NOT let your management talk you into working king hell overtime during your notice period.)

      And take some time to start thinking about how you’ll spend your time in retirement. For the first time in your life, you’ll be in control of your own schedule. This can be both exciting and scary.

    28. Who Plays Backgammon?*

      I say this with all kindness. Your remarks remind me of my predecessor in a previous job. She had a hard time letting go after decades on the job, and (I’m not saying this is you, but it sure was her) accepting that somebody else could come in and do the job, and the workplace would carry on. More than a year after she “retired” she was talking about coming back to volunteer on a big periodic project. Believe me, it went just fine without her.

      Also, now working with a lot of retirees, I see people whose lives were so wrapped up in work that when they retire they don’t know what to do with themselves and don’t take any steps to find purposeful, enjoyable new things to do.

      Relax, tie up loose ends, trust your coworkers and successor to take the reins. Enjoy your retirement. You are NOT screwing someone over by taking the next step in your life.

  3. foolofgrace*

    If you’re a state employee (U.S.) and you’re going for a different state job, does anyone know if they have to consider you over someone who doesn’t work for the state? Someone told me this was the case.

    1. I'm just here for the cats!*

      I think in most cases they still have to post the position and allow others from outside the organization to apply. I think it really depends on your organization and state regulations on this. It might depend on the role. If its a director role or higher leadership then they probably need to open to everyone. If it’s just an admin moving from one department to another, probably not. (I work at a state university but academia is probably different if your in a state agency).

    2. AnonymooseToday*

      I’ve heard/understand for us (state govt), that it helps. I’ve seen that they tend to get interviewed even if they are a little less qualified, and if the manager hires someone outside state employment when there’s an internal candidate I think they have to word the HR hiring decision/justification in a way that makes it clear why they aren’t hiring the internal candidate. But then again I applied to another agency job with several ppl I’ve worked with before and was in line with my specialized career path and didn’t get an interview. So probably pretty much depends on the agency/division unspoken rules and the hiring manager. I think at the very least it will get you through the HR screening.

    3. Charlotte Lucas*

      I think it depends on the state. Where I live, they have to prove that they considered everyone fully & didn’t play favorites. On the other hand, if you work for the state, you can get training on creating resumes for state jobs. (They are very different than most.)

    4. Annika Hansen*

      Not in my state. It used to be that if you were a state employee who had a job that had been eliminated/going to be eliminated and your job was similar that you would get preferential treatment. They no longer do that. However, I think every state has different employment rules.

    5. DarthVelma*

      I am a state employee and I’ve done a ton of hiring – this is certainly not true in the state agencies I’ve worked for (3 agencies in 2 states).

      1. retired2*

        Same here…you may be looking at veteran’s preference or something like that, but not having worked in aother agency, no matter where

    6. Don't Touch My Snacks*

      I think it might depend on stat and situation. I recently transferred from one state job to another and due to my career status I was considered a preferential hire. I still had to put in a full application, be qualified, and interview. It was not guaranteed I would get the position. This was in North Carolina.

    7. Rusty Shackelford*

      I’m sure some states offer preferential treatment in hiring to current employees, but definitely not all of them.

    8. Joielle*

      Not formally, at least in my state. But at least for the positions I’ve hired, we do like to see people with a demonstrated commitment to public service, so prior work for the state could help you get a leg up.

      It’s basically because we want people who understand that the work can be a bit thankless, you’re at the whim of the legislature, the public sometimes hates you, the pay is a bit less than in the private sector, etc. For me, the benefits more than outweigh the drawbacks, but we’ve had people come over from the private sector without really thinking about those differences, and left again in short order.

    9. Cthulhu's Librarian*

      This is highly dependent on the bargaining unit of both jobs, to start with – In many cases, the CBA prioritizes lateral transfers that are within the same bargaining unit, but affords no special consideration to state employees who are part of other bargaining units. So, administrative personnel across a dozen agencies might have priority, but a corrections officer who is part of a different union wouldn’t receive that same consideration.

      The good news is that the CBAs of each bargaining unit are matters of public record, and should be posted with the department of administration for your given state, if you want to find out specifically what it says.

      The second thing that can have a huge impact is whether the position is a civil service exam position or not, and which civil service exam it requires you to have taken – many states have specific regulations about that how previous state positions and civil service exams will weight your score when you are being considered for an opening.

    10. too many too soon*

      In my state it depends on which union covers the classification. Sometimes there are internal postings for 7 days just for union members to apply if qualified. If the candidate meets the required quals they are generally hired without interviewing anyone else.

    11. Esmeralda*

      It depends. Sorry, but every state is different, and even within a single state, it may not be the same for different kinds of positions. Or for the same job at different times or in different departments or agencies.

      I’d just figure it could happen and then not worry about it, since it’s not something you have the least bit of control over.

    12. Neighborhood Catistician*

      Depends on the state.

      Here, the first round of hiring is only open to folks who already work for the state. If the hiring manager doesn’t approve of any of the internal candidates, then it gets posted publicly for external candidates. State employees can still apply in the second round, but there is no preference given over external candidates.

    13. Prefer my pets*

      It depends on the state. There are some that treat it like the federal govt where there are actually 2 different application pools for each vacancy…one open only to current employees & one to anyone, I know at least one state who adds preference points to current employees, and some that there is no preference (beyond that you may already be familiar with specific programs or processes). The relevant state employment website should have the information.

    15. Anon Because Potentially Identifying Info*

      I’m sure this varies across states significantly, so I can only speak to my state (Pennsylvania). In my state, it’s generally a decision made about posting the position. When you as a hiring manager post a position, you can set certain parameters on it around who can apply. Some jobs are posted for the public. Some jobs are posted only for state employees (it’s faster than public postings so people often go with this if they think they can get someone internal). Some jobs get very specific, down to the Department Level (generally done if they except a large pool of applicants and want to limit it somehow) or even Bureau Level (usually means they know who they want to hire).

      Once the job is posted, we have to interview everyone or no one in a certain group (for example all the promotions, all the lateral transfers, all the external candidates, all the reinstatement candidates). It’s not atypical for the hiring panel to just pick one of the candidate group types, because there is no other way to narrow down the pool and who has time for interviewing 50+ people for some positions. I hate that, because on occasion there is one potentially good external candidate for example, but they may not even get an interview because overall the external candidate pool is weak and if they don’t look truly exceptional, a hiring panel might not want to waste the time being forced to interview the 20 other external candidates just to interview the one potential good one if they think another candidate group has good potentials in it.

      Anyway, maybe more background then you wanted, but not always that much government specific stuff available, so always like to try to help where I can.

      1. Anon Because Potentially Identifying Info*

        Adding, because I didn’t answer directly enough, no we don’t have to consider internal hires over external for the vast majority of our positions. There may be some narrow union cases where that is the case, but not as a general rule and not for management positions.

  4. Alldogsarepuppies*

    I have my first interview in about 5 years! The last time I was applying for jobs I was straight out of college. Besides reading Alison’s guide, how else would you prepare

    1. I'm just here for the cats!*

      Try to do a mock interview with a friend or family member where they ask you some typical interview questions. It really helps you practice

      1. Donkey Hotey*

        Seconding this, even if it’s only saying your answers out loud. We all like to “think” answers but having the words come out makes a huge difference.

      1. reject187*

        Yes, absolutely on STAR! It was one of the most helpful methods I used when interviewing in the spring.

        I’d also say, be confident about what you’re looking for in a position, and when/if you get rejected for some positions, be confident in the fact that you would not have been a great fit for them – nothing personal, just business. (That’s pretty much the only reason I kept applying for positions and now I’m loving where I’m at!)

    3. 3DogNight*

      Go find every award and accolade you’ve ever gotten. Remember how you got those! So many people forget about these, and it’s huge to your morale, and looks great on your resume.

    4. cathullu*

      I start a new job on Monday after a few months of job searching! I had interview notes for the behavioral questions. It had some info on projects and situations that I thought might be useful for those kinds of questions. I didn’t really use it during interviews as it turned out, but it was really helpful in mental prep and in organizing my thoughts. I also added to those notes, where appropriate, after interviews. You may end up doing a fair number, so I found this to be a great way to iterate and improve each time. Good luck!

    5. Nannerdoodle*

      Practice interview questions with an actual person. You may have all the information you want to say in your head, but sometimes the delivery sounds weird or unclear. It’s useful to actually say it all.
      Also, make sure all your interview clothes still fit and work for how you want to portray yourself. Some people’s clothing all fits exactly the same after 5 years, and for other people it totally doesn’t. That’s not something you want to find out morning of.

    6. Littorally*

      Look up some common interview questions online, especially the “tell me about a time when….” questions, and give yourself the time sitting and thinking through your career to dredge up those good examples.

    7. cubone*

      Agree with the commenters about STAR. Having been the interviewer dozens of times, the biggest difference between a good and less good answer is specificity, especially for behavioral questions (“tell me about a time when”). You don’t want to get bogged down by details, but vague stuff like “I resolved disagreements with my colleagues using good communication skills” is basically like saying nothing.

      My prep practice now is three-fold:
      1) review the posting line by line and think of specific examples of things I have done similar to each point (and try to think of them in STAR method)
      2) practice some general behavioral type questions, how would you deal with conflict, how would you deal with a disagreement, etc. Again, specific examples in STAR
      3) practice answers to what I think of as basic “admin” questions: why did you leave your last job, where do you see yourself in 5 years, what are you strengths/weaknesses, what are your salary expectations, why do you want to work here.

      1. cubone*

        ++++1. I reminded my partner of this interviewing for a job and when they asked why he was interested in the company, he brought up why he appreciates the charities and causes they’ve chosen to donate to. His interviewer was super impressed and specifically said “oh so you actually read the whole website and not just the homepage, you’d be surprised how many candidates don’t know more than our name” (he got the job, btw).

    9. MeetingLady*

      +1 on practicing your answers OUT LOUD. It just changes things, and it makes things go so much more smoothly when I can work out some phrasing and segue options in advance. Then when I’m nervous in the interview I can kind of “replay” what I thought went well in the practice, rather than trying to make whole new sentences in the moment.

    10. AndersonDarling*

      When interviewing, it’s okay to ask for clarification if you don’t completely understand the question. And it’s a good move to ask “Did I completely answer your question? Or is there something else you would like me to elaborate on?” in cases where the questions are complex or you feel like you may have veered off course.
      I hate to say it, but you only have one shot to answer the interviewer’s questions. May as well confirm that you provided the information the interviewer is looking for, and it also shows that you are dedicated to good communication.
      Good luck!

    11. RagingADHD*

      I have not read Alison’s guide, but I like to ask a lot of questions about the job. It keeps me in the mindset of “we are BOTH trying to find a good fit,” which helps to show up in a relaxed & confident way.

      l make it a practice to research the company and/or the role or the specific team as thoroughly as possible. That includes:

      – Glassdoor reviews and whether or how any of the specific comments might apply to this role.

      -Market rate for the salary range & bennies.

      -What the company says publicly about their culture, values, and long-term plans.

      -How much any press coverage, interviews, or comments from current & former employees match those statements.

      -Whether there have been any big changes recently like merger, acquisition, or leadership, or if they’re anticipated.

      -Projects they are involved with, especially if it’s the kind of thing you might work on in some way.

      I also bring notes on general questions, like why the role is open, what the manager’s style is like, etc.

      Good luck!

    12. Probably carrying my cat in a baby sling*

      I was in the same boat a few weeks ago, first interviews in about 8 years. I spent a LONG time prepping the day before. like 6 hours? I started with a blank google doc, filled in what I knew about the company, why I was a good fit for the position/why I liked the company, went over my full job experience, how my skills translate to the job description, plus all the questions from Allison’s book.

      And then practiced, out loud. The hardest part is actually getting started! It’s not going to suddenly come to you. You’ll feel ridiculous at first, but just start talking to yourself (shut the door if you can, privacy is nice). I turned on a zoom meeting, and casually started speaking the questions/answers out loud, on camera (but not recording). I have ADHD, and my thoughts are always a whirl, but forcing myself to speak things out loud, on camera, made me slow down, listen to myself, and finish my sentence before moving on to my next thought. It also helped me frame my thoughts in natural speaking way — the most eye-opening part was that it helped me get a better sense of my strengths and how best to frame them (much more than writing). I repeated the questions/answers until I wasn’t stumbling quite as much.

      Then I recorded myself answering the questions; I made myself answer as though someone else was actually listening (no stopping mid-sentence or starting over. Just keep going, even if you don’t like the way you said something. Self-correct, and fix it.). Then I watched the recording and noted what worked and what didn’t. I might have recorded myself a second time, if I wanted to try again. And last, I put on my interview outfit and my partner pretended to be my interviewer; she sat on her laptop in a different room, joined my zoom meeting, and she picked random questions to ask. And she made sure we didn’t break character :) It was incredibly helpful.

      All the practice really paid off in all of the interviews — I didn’t have to make things up on the spot because I had already practiced so many variations of the ways of speaking on the topic. I’m so so so glad I prepped.

      (I also got the job!!)

  5. specialk*

    I’m seething and I want to know if I’m overreacting. We moved back full time into the office two weeks ago. During COVID, the company was running out of warehouse space at our location and rented a new facility for us, but the offices are now just a concrete box with no windows, no natural light and forced ventilation. With cubicles. I am an engineer with 25 years experience, and I have never bought into the prestigious corner-office rat race. During a Management Training class exercise a few years ago, I rated having a nice office at $5 per day. Not a significant factor – I don’t really care about the cubicles. But anyway, I wrote to the HR manager, located in another state, who had just visited and touted her “Contact me anytime” policy. I told her that being stuck in the box under harsh fluorescent lights all day was a bit oppressive and would be even worse in the coming winter, when it would be dark when we arrived at work, and dark when we left for home. I expressed dismay that my office worked well for 18 months remotely, but now it’s back full time in the office with no flexibility.
    She replied apologizing that I was having trouble – but that she personally found returning to the office incredibly fulfilling and productive, and she found the value in working at the office with her colleagues “immeasurable”.
    Am I wrong in thinking that this is horribly tone deaf? Commiserate and tell me there is nothing to be done, or even lie to me and tell me management was considering options, but don’t patronize me. I’m on good terms with her boss, the director, so I’m considering writing back, CCing him and my boss, also located out of state, and telling her how happy I am that she is finding returning to the office so wonderful and fulfilling, especially since I am sure her office in the Corporate Center is bright and airy with a great view. OF COURSE she should disregard MY silly concerns and have a great weekend. Too much?

    2. Snorlax*

      I don’t blame you for being annoyed with her reply, but sending back a snarky response isn’t going to help you in any way. It might feel good in the moment but will not give anyone who reads it a good impression of you, even if you have a good relationship with them now.

    3. Dust Bunny*

      . . . send her a picture of your workspace and offer to trade?

      Seriously, though, I would assume this woman hasn’t given any consideration to the difference in working environments and would sing a very different tune if she were parked in a warehouse.

    4. Lady Ann*

      Your proposed response is understandable, but definitely too much. I think it would be reasonable, however, to reply and state that you’re confused because you’re not sure what *her* experience returning to the office has to do with the concerns you brought up in your message.

      2. Green Beans*

        Oh, I like this. Maybe even something like, “I understand there are a variety of experiences. I want to focus on mine.”

    5. Dark Macadamia*

      It is an out-of-touch response, but don’t reply like that! It’s not clear from your post what your goal was beyond expressing a complaint – did you ask to return to remote work?

        1. Dark Macadamia*

          Ugh that’s really annoying. I agree with Sleet Feet below that acting as if she misunderstood and repeating the specific issues and proposed solution would be the best option. The more you can focus on actionable changes and their work impact, the less she can justify responding with her feelings.

    6. Jennifer*

      Yeah, you’d think an HR person would better understand how to handle an upset employee rather than dismissing your concern because it doesn’t affect them.

      I would write back cc’ing your boss only, not going over the HR person’s head. You might even write something like “Your reply to me implies you are dismissing my concern because you aren’t experiencing the same thing I am.”

      And definitely explain how this affects your work (if you haven’t already) – which is why you cc your boss – something like “I’m finding it difficult to focus for more than 15 minutes without a source of natural light. I’d like to talk about how we can come up with a solution so I can be as productive as possible.” or similar.

      1. Green Beans*

        Honestly, our HR and several of our directors/leadership are very much on the “if you pretend it’s not a problem, it won’t be a problem” bandwagon. No matter how many times I say acknowledging and listening is half the battle, the first go-to is always, “well, how do we convince them that it’s actually not a problem?”

    7. I'm A Little Teapot*

      Invite her to visit your location. In the darkest week of the year.

      Also, buy a light box. At least you can get some better lighting in your cube. And put a big print on the wall.

    8. LizB*

      Yeah, your proposed response is too much. Hers was tone deaf and useless, but looping her boss in on a snarky reply won’t do anyone any good, and honestly could make you look like the unreasonable one.

      You would be justified, though, in responding just to her and pointing out that she didn’t actually address any of your concerns, so does she have any actual answers for you on how your working conditions can be improved? I also think that going to your boss with this problem, rather than starting with HR, might be a better route. You know your org best, but office space decisions aren’t really HR’s purview in a lot of organizations, so there may actually not be anything she can do. Your boss, who knows your work and has an interest in keeping you happy, maybe be better placed, or know the right strings to pull, to make some changes.

    9. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Yeah, too much. The snark, specifically.

      Her personality is not your personality. You have no idea how she’d feel if she was in your facility – just as happy as she is in corporate HQ, just as unhappy as you are, somewhere in between.

      She’s also new, so you don’t know if her use of the word “immeasurable” is because she usually speaks with what you probably consider hyperbole. I’m an engineer too; “immeasurable” has a connotation to us in our work that might not be the same for people with a different background.

      I’ve worked in secured DoD IT facilities. No windows, loud, raised floors, fluorescents, always too cold. So I sympathize.

    10. HigherEdAdminista*

      I do think that is too much. It is possible she is tone deaf and truly loves her return to the office, but it is also possible the uppers have told her that only positive comments about return to the office are allowed and that they want to squash any discussion of WFH. This is a good reminder that HR is there to meet the needs of employees, sure, but ultimately they are representing the organization.

      If you see any immediate safety concerns, like the ventilation, I would bring these up to your boss and see if there is anything to be done. I would also start keeping track of any negative impacts the environment is having on your work with a plan to ask about flexibility regarding working from home. I know it is frustrating to have to wait and I don’t agree with it, but I also know that when people bring up an issue before something has even been tried, there is often a reflex for people to dig in their heels. If you are able to show how it isn’t working, it may go better for you.

      A lot of management types think WFH = not working, which we all know isn’t true, but right now you are trying to suss out if this is the mentality there. If so, they are likely to be inflexible, especially if they are financially invested in this space. In which case it would be time to polish up the resume and head out.

    12. Sleet Feet*

      I think the problem is you buried the lead.

      I’d write back and say something like – sorry I wasn’t clear. I was actually talking about how our office has no windows or natural light and poor circulation. Is there a plan with facilities to move onto a more suitable space? If not will there be more flexibility for hybrid work from home in the future?

      2. MeetingLady*

        This nails it. Redirect to the facility itself. She’s probably getting a lot of pressure to positively message return to office. Redirect from the WFH issue to the problems with the facility.

      3. Not So NewReader*

        Yep. And include pictures as mentioned above.

        I often use that “sorry I was not clear” to lead into restating the problem with an entirely different set of words. Don’t forget to restructure your sentences- do not say the exact same thing again as she does not hear that particular set of words.

      4. Velawciraptor*

        I’d do this and put a bit of an emphasis on COVID safety concerns–poor air circulation and ventilation could wind up being OSHA issues. To the extent you can put it in terms that sound like “corporate liability,” you should get a more in-touch response.

    13. cmcinnyc*

      Honestly, this isn’t an HR issue. HR exists to prevent the company from being sued. I would not bother replying to her or involving HR in any way going forward. Talk to you boss about options with the space, whether there’s anything Facilities can do to at least mitigate the crappiness of it.

    14. NACSACJACK*

      I agree with the “Dont make a snarky reply” but I encourage you to write back to her and explain to her that she missed your point – you’re stuck in a box with no windows and no natural light, essentially a factory, and even they have windows. I think she focused more on your comments about how good working remotely worked for you and your team and that’s what she’s turning a deaf ear to. She and Corporate want their employees back in the office. They dont like having their employees working remotely. HR is notorious about working together as a team, rather than individuals so they themselves are not a department to be compared with. I would forward her email to your boss, with whatever relationship you have with him, explaining “I think she missed the point.”

      Sidenote – I wonder if your state labor department has laws regarding working environments.

    15. darlingpants*

      I would also be pissed, but writing a passive aggressive email and cc-ing both her boss and your boss is kind of overreacting (IMHO). Either write back and reiterate what you’re actually asking for (its seems like flexibility to work from home? Or are you asking for better offices?), or accept that her “contact me anytime” policy is a PR stunt and not a real way to get things done.

    16. BRR*

      It’s a pretty bad answer and I would be incredibly irritated as well. You sound like you have a similar view on workspace as I do, you just need the bare minimum. So when office space doesn’t hit that, it’s really bad office space.

      Don’t reply ccing her boss and your boss. If this HR manager is someone who can do something about your situation, I would reply back with something positive about returning, ideally agreeing with something she mentioned (“I also have found it productive to being able to meet in person with colleagues”) and then make an ask for what you want again.

      If this is something that is beyond her control, it’s probably best to not reply (emotionally I want to tell you to reply and let her have it though).

    17. AnonEMoose*

      I agree with those saying a snarky response would be a bad idea, for all of the reasons listed, but oh, boy, am I with you on the feeling!

      I was recently forced back to the office a few days a week (thankfully not all week). With all this chirping about how valuable “in person collaboration” is. Never mind that I am NOT happy about being forced back on to public transit – I’m fully vaccinated, as is my spouse, but that’s not a guarantee. And never mind that crime is up near our offices, so I don’t feel super safe going back and forth, either. On top of that, no more assigned space, so every time I have to be there, I have to book a space in advance…and not every space has a computer. I don’t have a work laptop, and there is no way I’m hauling my personal laptop down there to do what I can do just as productively from home. Nor does our team need to do that much “in person collaboration.” Am I bitter about this?? Oh, just a bit. Nor has everyone been required to return in person yet, so I’m REALLY not clear on why my team, specifically, HAD TO GO BACK NOW.

    18. Mynona*

      If your goal is to work in a less depressing space, ask for accommodations to improve “productivity” instead of communicating your unhappiness to people who frankly don’t care. As others have said: ask for remote work options. Or ask for space accommodations: changes to lighting or equipment or furniture or paint color. Something to compensate for the unpleasantness that can’t be changed.

      It’s the old advice of presenting solutions not problems. But admittedly you are probably still going to be working in a cubicle in a bunker, which just sucks.

    19. Teapot Repair Technician*

      I agree her response was tone deaf, but your proposed response would even more tone deaf.

      “I told someone about something that was bothering me and they didn’t respond the way I wanted” is an age old problem.

      At the risk of sounding snarky myself, you need to find someone else to vent to, but first tell them what kind of response you want.

    20. specialk*

      OP: Thanks very much for your replies. I got her response late yesterday, and penned a VERY snarky reply, but I have learned the hard way over the years that there is very little to lose and possibly much to to gain by going home and sleeping on it before hitting SEND. Cooler head this morning, and then I realized it was Open Thread Friday, and I could ask AAM for advice. I got exactly what I needed here: some sympathy, some admonition, and some helpful suggestions. I’ll reply to her later today with some of the suggested verbiage, understand that Corporate is not considering WFH as an option at this time, and suggesting a light tube skylight or two to provide SOME natural light to the cube farm. Thanx again and have a great weekend!

      1. Observer*

        By the way, I was serious about asking for a change of light bulbs. There is something about fluorescent lights that is hard for a lot of people. LEDs don’t do that. And you can get them (at no extra cost) in a color temperature that’s much easier on the eye.

        1. allathian*

          Yeah, this. After I’d been WFH for about 3 months I suddenly realized that I hadn’t been ending my workdays with a slight headache since I quit going to the office. Our offices were due to be remodeled before the pandemic struck, but those plans have been put on an indefinite hold. The pandemic will probably also mean at least a partial redesign. They were going to do an activity-based office with silent areas, collaborative areas, and work areas where you could use the phone and talk, but not necessarily collaborate, as well as 2-person “phone booths” to use for 1:1s, or when you’re presenting at a meeting. I suspect that the focus will shift to more collaborative areas and more employees will be expected to WFH when they need to focus all day. There’ll be some silent areas for those who don’t have the space to WFH effectively. My employer did a survey on employee preferences post-COVID, and about 10 percent said they’d prefer to WFH full time, 20 percent said they’d prefer to only come in for in-person meetings like development days and when their job required collaboration (that’s me), 30 percent said they’d prefer to come to the office 1 or 2 days a week, 30 percent said 3 or 4 days a week and 10 percent said they’d prefer to come to the office every day. It’s taken as a given that in most jobs at our employer it’s possible to WFH in exceptional circumstances, such as when you’re waiting for the plumber or have to take your kid to the dentist, etc.

    21. Purple Cat*

      I totally commiserate with you that her reply was awful and tone-deaf, but if you want productive change, you’re going to have to dial back the snark on your reply.

      What you *should* do is acknowledge the things you do like about being back in the office (white lie if you have to), but stress that the concern is with the actual office setup…. I can’t believe they’d stick *people* in windowless boxes and think that’s a good idea.

    22. Clearlier*

      Often HR has no power and their role is just to do what they’re told. It certainly sounds like that’s the case in this instance. It really doesn’t sound like it would be worth wasting your time with that HR person or their manager.

      Find out who can make changes.
      Work out what changes you want.
      Work out what problems they would solve.
      The go to the person who can make changes, outline the problems that this will cause from the point of view of the company (low morale, increased sickness absence etc.) and then a list of potential solutions. A different facility sounds like it would be ideal but even if they’re open to it that takes time so other suggestions such as regular wfh, building modifications, live plants, an outdoor break area – maybe even an outdoor meeting space are just a few of the things that could help out.

      It would probably be a good idea to take some soundings from colleagues beforehand to understand how widespread your views are and you may choose to do it as part of a group if the decision maker is unknown to you but I’ve often found that the personal touch can be most effective if you’re comfortable in that situation.

    23. RagingADHD*

      Yes, it’s too much.

      Her remarks were tone deaf, and yes there is a productive conversation to be had about this.

      But you aren’t prepared to have it until you chill out.

    25. Observer*

      I’m on good terms with her boss, the director, so I’m considering writing back, CCing him and my boss, also located out of state, and telling her how happy I am that she is finding returning to the office so wonderful and fulfilling, especially since I am sure her office in the Corporate Center is bright and airy with a great view. OF COURSE she should disregard MY silly concerns and have a great weekend. Too much?

      It depends on what you want to accomplish and what consequences you are willing to bear. But if you actually would like to see SOME change or even a bit of respect, I can’t think a worse response.

      Responding and cc’ing others can be a good move, but you need to skip the snark and sarcasm. Especially since there’s a good chance that she’s NOT in a gorgeous office.

      If you respond, say that you realize the return to the office works well for some people. But that does not change the fact that FOR YOUR SITUATION, things don’t look so good. And then ask for some specific changes. If you can’t get full time WFH back, what would help? Would changing the lighting (LEDs at a better color temperature can make a shocking difference) be useful? Would some schedule flexibility be helpful? Those are the only two that come to my mind, but I’d be willing to be that you could think of some other things that would makes things be less miserable. Or not – it could be that there really is not much that can be done here. In either case, this is going to be a much better approach.

      I’m not saying that you’re going to get a good response, but if you want to put on record that the HR rep was out of line, this is a much more effective way to do it.

    26. Girasol*

      I’m in the minority but I vote “not snarky.” Light matters. I watched 50 people in a cubicle area shouting back and forth at each other and the facilities guy as he complied with the work request to replace a fluorescent bulb. (It’s too bright. It is not. Is so! I get headaches in bright light! Well I can’t read with that bulb out! Studies say dim light is best. I’ll show you studies that say it’s not!) Another time I watched a manager tell his team, “We’re reorganizing the department and it’s going to make big changes: new managers for some of you, new responsibilities for all of you. I know this is hard to accept but Now, what are your thoughts and concerns?” And the first response was, “Whatever. Are we *finally* going to get moved to where there’s a window? I haven’t seen daylight in months!” I don’t see how it’s snarky to say that an office is a windowless box with harsh lighting if it is. HR should know better than to blow off lighting concerns. If they want you to be enthused about the value of working near your colleagues, they need to remediate the issues. You gave them an option – let you work at home – and if they disagree they can come up with other options. You would, if you are an un-snarky person, consider them with an open mind and cooperative intent.

    27. Daisy-dog*

      I haven’t read all of the replies, but Sleet Feet’s script for a reply is excellent. A few things:
      – I doubt she can actually do anything about this. Not because HR has no “power” (which varies based on the organization), but because facilities is usually under the Ops umbrella. I believe the person you should have gone to first is your supervisor or whoever is in charge at your site.
      – I wouldn’t count out that her boss doesn’t know about this. Return-to-office is some organizations is heavily discussed and her boss may want constant updates on feedback received.
      – Combined with my above statement, it’s possible that leadership is pushing a positive message on return-to-office. She did not pick up on the fact that you wanted an actionable response – she just is going with the type of script recommended. Maybe you were the 20th person that day to complain about being on site and she didn’t comprehend what was being asked.

  6. A Simple Narwhal*

    I’m hoping the OP from Monday’s post “ my employee sent me a ‘letter of intent’ to look for another job” gives an update! She had been posting in the comments (which I highly recommend checking out, they’re a real trip) and she mentioned she had a one-on-one with him Tuesday morning, I’m eager to hear how it went!

    3. Elizabeth West*

      OMG me too With every reply, it just got more hilariously bad. I’m dying to know how it turns out.

    4. OP*

      I was going to wait to have a more complete update, but this is where we are right now:

      Brief Intent-to-Flounce Update:

      1. We met. I said something like, “You sound very unhappy here, so if you give me a letter of resignation, we can have you move on in December.” Fergus’ response, “What if I want to stay through spring?” Me: “Well, you have that right, but you seem very unhappy with this program, so I think you should think hard about that decision.” I left it there for right now.
      2. Fergus filed an official grievance with the Faculty Senate, saying that the students are being mean to him, and I’m being insufficiently supportive. The Dean is fielding it. The Dean, “I think I know all I need to at this point.” He (the Dean) specifically chose both my boss and I to run what he considers to be his legacy program. I’m not worried.
      3. Fergus is being extremely polite to me and the students right now.
      4. Fergus claims that he officially changed the schedule before the start of classes. The students claim he did so after they started. I haven’t done the deep dive to figure out who is telling the truth here. He had definitely been in contact with students over the summer and told them something different than what ended up happening.
      5. These particular students WILL push hard for what they want. (Think: pre-meds who will argue for an hour for ½ point.) It takes a strong person to say “no”, mean it, hold the line, and NOT take it personally. Another adjunct is getting similar pressure, but is being calm, consistent, and predictable. The new adjunct having no issues, but instead is earning the respect of his students. I wish I could get Fergus to model his behavior on that adjunct
      6. Fergus keeps changing the modality and time of class meetings with virtually no warning to the students, e.g., “I’m going to this conference on Monday.” Me: “Doesn’t your class meet in-person then?”, Him: “Yeah, I’ll make it asynchronous that day. They’ll cope.” Nothing I say makes the least dent.
      7. Some people asked about the phrasing of the rude email. Heavily paraphrased, “I told you I cannot change the format of the class. You’re planning for another failure later in the semester, just as you did last semester. I repeat I will not change the class format again unless I receive a letter from you specifically directing me to change the format. By doing so you will be undermining my faculty rights and responsibilities, so you need to acknowledge this is your decision in a signed letter and take responsibility for students whose grade [sic] suffers.”
      8. Fergus met with the Dean (outcome of filing the complaint) and walked that back, too, saying to him that, actually, come to think of it, my boss and I are actually supportive. And he wants to stay through spring, or even longer! What?

      I’m sure there’s more to come.

        1. Deanna Troi*

          Thanks for the update! This sounds incredibly frustrating. Didn’t he originally ask if you preferred if he left in December or stayed through the end of the spring semester? I probably would have countered with that when he asked “what if I want to stay through spring?” He clearly thought that when the Dean received the original email, the Dean would jump all over you and tell you to do whatever you had to do to keep this guy. Now he’s try to walk back everything he said because he’s panicked that you might let him go. I’m also concerned that he is straight up ignoring you when you try to give him direction about things like not changing the class time and format at the last minute. If I recall correctly, you’re the Department Head. That kind of insubordination should not be tolerated by your institution. If your legal thinks that you can do it within the confines of the existing contract, I would terminate his contract in December.

          1. After 33 years ...*

            Dear OP:
            Agreed … Fortunately, it does sound as though the Dean has read the situation well and has your back. Students who want to argue “why did I only get 99% on this 2-mark assignment” can be very frustrating, but that is part of the territory, as you and your other adjunct know. A complaint from a faculty member that “students are mean to me” would not be well-received here at any level, and certainly would never make it to any of our Senate sub-committees. Changing class meetings on the fly (as your #6) certainly would be grounds for student grievances here – our (unionized) faculty simply are not permitted to do that.
            Fergus appears to be in the wrong profession, or at least in the wrong environment for his approach at your place. In our “different-but similar” situation, the faculty member was assigned elective courses for non-majors, where they could do the least harm.

  7. Anonymous for this*

    I’m at the end of a job search that’s also coming in the midst of an emotional move (we’re moving for my spouse’s new job after 13 years in our current community) and I just need some good vibes. I applied in July and have had four interviews. The other day the hiring manager reached out to ask if I had time to talk today and I really have no idea what that could mean. I’d really like this job and would be good at it, so I’m trying to have hope, but I don’t have much.

    2. RD*

      Sending you only the best vibes!!! <3 I just heard about a job offer last week, and I started interviewing for that role in July too! Also, moving is so hard especially when you like where you're leaving from.

    3. Murfle*

      I’m sure this will work out! I really doubt a hiring manager would call you back and ask about your availability for another conversation only to say to you “nope, we decided not to go with you” – that just seems needlessly cruel. In my experience, rejections tend to happen over email.

      1. Anonymous for this*

        I hope not! The only thing I can think is that it could be because it’s been such a long (though not arduous—no assignments, etc) process that they feel like they owe a phone rejection instead of an email.

    4. Lunch Ghost*

      I hope it’s good news!

      I’m going to be in that position next year (less time in our current location though) and am already stressed about the job search even though I’m sure it’s too early to look.

  8. PM*

    How does everyone handle performance appraisals of their boss?

    I’ve never worked somewhere where I had to do one. I think my boss is mostly useless and don’t trust the feedback will matter. I need to list positive and negatives. Should I just come up with some generic nonsense?

    1. Nannerdoodle*

      Do you trust that your feedback will be kept anonymous or no? If you trust that it’ll be anonymous, you can work on finding actual positives and negatives, and give specific examples of why.

      If you don’t trust that it’ll be anonymous and that your boss would use it against you, then generic nonsense it is.

    2. Sleet Feet*

      If you don’t trust the feedback will matter the. I would skip it or write generic platitudes.

      Why risk blowback for no gain?

    3. R O U S*

      If this isn’t a context where you trust management or the process, go generic. And then pay close close attention to the outcomes of the process: did other people on your team submit more substantive responses? Was there real change? Was there blowback? Treat this year as a data-gathering exercise. It sounds like perhaps you don’t want to be working there next year, but if you are, you’ll be able to pull data from this experience.

      I work somewhere that I think is generally great & responsive, but I went totally neutral my first year with those things just to figure out the lay of the land, and it was valuable to me.

    4. AnonEMoose*

      I would go with generic nonsense. If you’re questioning whether the feedback would matter or be used against you, it seems like the safer option.

    5. Feral At This Point*

      Generic, positive nonsense for the win! Feedback is never private, no mater what they say and it will come back to bite you or your team. My boss, who is usually nice, got *slightly* negative feedback at the start of a 3 day strategic planning session a couple of yrs ago and sulked, kept demanding to know who said it, and made snarky comments the entire session. Not pleasant for anyone.

    6. Mockingjay*

      Address process, not personality. Find some innocuous thing to praise: “Appreciate how Boss always responds quickly to questions” (even if the answer’s always no). Then ask for some little thing within her purview to improve: “It would be helpful if we could set up a status meeting on Thursdays to review status of Project Critical.”

      Keep it short and sweet. Good luck.

      1. A Teacher*

        I once replied with “I have nothing constructive to add” and left it at that. Apparently a few of my coworkers did the same–we legit didn’t plan it. The levels above my boss cringed and addressed some issues that were obvious and then that boss was on a PIP for a bit before eventually being forced out.

    7. Clearlier*

      I know of one manager whose team were thoroughly fed up with her and who got together and agreed on the feedback that they were going to give to the survey. They all provided the same feedback and shortly afterwards she was no longer with the company. If that’s appropriate for your situation go for it but otherwise I’d be extremely cautious about putting your head above the parapet to criticise.

      Constructive suggestions can work well though e.g. “I value X’s feedback and it would be great if I could have regular 1:1’s” is a good way of trying to solve a problem where you never get time to talk to your manager.

    8. Recruited Recruiter*

      Go with generic if you don’t trust that it will truly be anonymous. I made the mistake a few years ago.

    9. The Real Persephone Mongoose*

      I get those a couple of times a year when we do our review process. I refuse to respond to them. The responses used to be just to the person’s manager who is supposed to aggregate the 360 feedback and speak to it in general as part of the discussion. That didn’t happen really ever. Not with my boss. Now, the comments are shared directly with both manager and employee so it’s an oh, hell NO when it comes to responding. I will not provide even vague feedback on them now. Not for anyone much less my boss. If you are required to respond, keep it vague using some of the wording others have provided.

    10. Been there, been burned by that*

      You don’t. At least not anywhere where it can have blow back. In my department, the person in overall charge demanded that IT trace where the feedback came from…and they did. Another time, the convened a committee to supposedly to make sure that particular thing didn’t happen. However, they put the most gossipy people on the committee so the admin got clues who said what. So, I write my feedback at home in long hand and then burn it. Even so, one of the committee members told me that he didn’t see any feedback that sounded like my voice. I just told him that it was too bad.

    11. MacGillicuddy*

      Describe things in observable terms, and only those behaviors that you actually observed. Use examples and be specific.
      One company where I worked required everybody to give reviews of their managers. Several of us reported to Hannah the Horrible (who thought she was the best boss in the world and that she could do our jobs better than we could).
      We (her reports) got together and decided we’d each list the few sort-of-good things HtH did. For the negatives, each of us listed only the things that we had personally seen, or our own interactions with HtH.

      It took each of us hours to write the review. Everybody was really specific.

    12. Juneybug*

      I had a new boss/job after military retirement and was asked to provide feedback for his 360 review. Spent hours on what important changes he could make to improve his leadership and word-smith the review in a gentle, encouraging manner. I had 20 years of leadership under my belt from the military and he was a brand new supervisor so yeah, there were things he could improve on.
      Few months later, asked him on how his review went for him to say he forgot about it and hadn’t read any of his feedback. A month later, asked again for him to tell me that his feedback was fine and nothing he was going to work on. Seriously?!!
      Next boss, same time (ignored the feedback until asked and then said no improvements were needed). Trust me that this brand new supervisor could also use improvement. So I no longer provide feedback. Got better things to do with my time/energy than manage up new bosses that do not want to change.

  9. Work Lunch*

    I have a sticky situation at work.

    My company has been hiring multiple VPs and EVPs in new invented positions over the past year. It’s caused a lot of disgruntlement in the lower ranks, where people are underpaid and raises do not meet COL. The company’s solution to being so top-heavy is to have skip-level meetings with the new VPs, where groups of 5-10 lower-level employees have a catered lunch with the VP of their department and discuss ideas about the company’s direction. (eye roll)

    I just got my invitation for this lunch, and it will probably fall near the end of my two week’s notice (my background check is taking forever because I attended college in the UK). I can’t decline the lunch without a good reason. Word will definitely get out about my leaving by the date of the lunch, and I’m afraid that I’ll become a target/dumping ground for people’s frustration.

    I’m frantically thinking of ideas…call in sick that day, try to push back my notice somehow, anything. Would appreciate brainstorming from this group.

    1. londonedit*

      Could you not say that since you’re leaving, you don’t think it’s appropriate to attend the lunch? That would seem like a fairly straightforward solution to me – there doesn’t seem to be much point in you going to a lunch that’s meant to be for current employees to discuss the company’s direction if you’re going to be leaving imminently. Some companies even have rules against soon-to-be-ex-employees attending things like that – I’ve worked for companies where I wasn’t allowed to attend editorial meetings during my month’s notice period because they didn’t want me to be part of discussions about their future publishing strategy, and I think that’s fair enough.

      1. Zephy*

        It sounds like they haven’t put in notice yet, they’re waiting for the background check to finish going through.

    2. J.B.*

      I skipped something similar because I had been at the emergency department with my daughter. It was much better to have skipped. Be sick, what will they do about it?

    4. Colette*

      If you’ve given your notice and are almost at the end, I would think it would be fairly easy to skip – just say “since I’m leaving Friday, I need to get everything wrapped up and won’t be able to attend”. What are they going to do, fire you?

      1. Work Lunch*

        Sorry I wasn’t clear, I’m still waiting on the background check clearing in order to give notice. So the timing is still a guessing game, but I think the info will be out by the time the lunch happens. Not 100% sure yet.

        1. Colette*

          I still think that if you’re in your notice period, you can blame that for skipping the meeting. Once you’ve quit, they have no leverage to make you go.

        2. R O U S*

          Say you’re going, and then if you do end up being able to resign & it’s in the notice period, decline for that reason. It sounds like a difficult environment but you don’t need to mind game it until you actually know you’re leaving in that exact time window

        4. I should really pick a name*

          Are you saying the info could be out before you’ve completed the background check?

          If that’s not the case, accept the invitation now, and if you give notice before the event, you can back out.

        5. Engineer Woman*

          Yep, I would also RSVP as a yes now. Once you do give notice, then update with a “I will now decline as I’m leaving shortly”

    5. Free Meerkats*

      Talk/email the VP and suggest that, since it’s the end of your notice period, you feel you’d be a distraction and take the focus of the meeting away from her and the intended purpose of the meeting. Simultaneous ego stroke and good business reason.

    7. Bayta Darrell*

      If you haven’t given notice by that point, can you just get caught up in some work? “Oh no, I was so focused on teapot painting that I totally didn’t realize what time it was!” Or even more general “oh no, I was thinking today was Thursday!”

    8. Rusty Shackelford*

      You don’t have a good reason to decline the lunch now, but if your leaving is public by the time lunch comes around, you’ll definitely have a good reason to decline.

    9. OtterB*

      For now, let yourself be scheduled for lunch the same way you would if you expected to continue working there. If your background check and confirmed offer at the other employer come through and you give notice before the lunch, at that point you can suggest to whoever is managing the lunch that given you’re leaving it doesn’t make sense to join the lunch. A catered lunch is not a big deal to back out of; it’s harder if it would be a big travel thing for some reason.

    10. I'm just here for the cats!*

      So if I understand your situation is that you have applied and are waiting for the final offer to another company but you have not put in your notice so your coworkers and bosses don’t know that you will probably be leaving soon. It sounds like you have to respond to the invite now even though its some time in the future.

      If this is the situation then I would say go ahead and respond to the invite and say that you are attending the lunch. Then if you get the offer from the other company and you put in your notice you can ask if it would be appropriate yet to attend or if you should skip the lunch that day.

      Good luck !

    12. Cold Fish*

      If you don’t want to take up a spot for an employee who is staying. Could you make up a doctor’s appointment? Ask to be rescheduled for a later lunch. It might give you a little more time for that background check to go thru.

    13. Hiring Mgr*

      I’m confused as to why you would be a target for people’s frustration.. aren’t you just one of the peons along with them? Whatever issues people have how are they even remotely tied to you?

    14. Purple Cat*

      Accept the lunch for now and then decline if you’ve given your notice by the time the lunch actually happens.
      I don’t get the concern if you have given your notice though and attend anyway?
      If the other people are venting their complaints why would it be at YOU?

      Go to the lunch and if it comes up that you’re leaving, tactfully let the VP know why….

    15. NotRealAnonForThis*

      So…been there, done that, here’s what I did and what wound up happening:

      All hands quarterly meeting.
      It was literally held on the Wednesday of my last week.
      I RSVP’ed while in the middle of the “background check pending waiting game” that it sounds as though you’re in.

      When my offer came through and I gave my notice to my direct supervisor, I did ask his opinion on how to handle. He straight up wanted me at the all-hands meeting.

      It was fine as far as I was concerned…and the couple of people who’d attempted to make it awkward by pretending to be so so startled by my leaving, well, I returned the awkward in a way where they’d have to make it clear to everyone they knew they were the problem if they carried it further.

    16. Not So NewReader*

      Cutting right to the core- who is going to dump their frustration on you? And what do you think that will look like or sound like?
      I think worst case might be that you end up stuck at a table with someone talking your ear off while you try to eat.
      I would be very surprised that this person could carry on for very long as the group is small and one whinner probably won’t be able to dominate the conversation.

      You could say something like, “I think my actions telegraph my thoughts on this subject. Meanwhile, we are trying to have a meal, so let’s talk about something pleasant. It will help the digestion to talk about pleasant things.”

      If you have never redirected people to talking about something pleasant, it’s interesting. Some people cannot think of one pleasant thing to talk about… and so they stop talking.

    17. Jean*

      You’re overthinking it. Just RSVP yes for now and once you’ve given notice, tell them you had some appointment come up that day and don’t go. The other attendees can share your lunch portion and fight over your dessert.

    18. RagingADHD*

      Um, accept the lunch. If you wind up that it’s in your notice period, then bow out for obvious reasons.

      It’s not a blood oath that magically binds you to attend.

    19. Nesprin*

      I am almost comically prone to bluntness- my approach would be to go, and ask what the VP’s near term plans are and what they bring to the institution when COL adjustments aren’t in the budget.

    20. linger*

      Unless the other attendees are the specific reason you’re leaving, I’d actually attend, cheerfully go “Woot! FREE FOOD!!!” and deflect all attempts at serious communication. Consider the lunch part of your severance package :)

    21. PollyQ*

      If you’re really concerned that people will dump on you if you’re not there, then I would say go to the lunch regardless of whether you’ve given notice or how much longer you’ll be there. People will be less likely to do it right to your face, and there’s value in preserving your reputation, even from a job you’re leaving.

    22. allathian*

      I think you’re overthinking it.

      You could accept the invitation, and after handing in your notice ask either your direct manager or the VP, whichever makes more sense in your organization, if they still want you there or if it would make more sense for you to bow out.

      If you become the dumping ground for other people’s frustration, you could say something about looking forward to working for a less top-heavy organization. I suspect that once you hand in your notice, they’ll be happy for you to cancel your attendance at this lunch.

  10. Dolly was Right*

    My company of 5000+ employees has a system where every week you can optionally complete a survey where you enter your work life balance and can write in specific issues you’re having. HR has the results but keeps them anonymous when delivering feedback to higher ups.

    My boss asked all of us if we’ve been filling them out. I didn’t think too much about it until my coworker mentioned she thinks someone must have filled out a particularly brutal one, HR flagged it to my director and they are now trying to figure out who wrote it. My team is very small and we’re all super busy so I’m guessing HR did a good job at keeping it anonymous. I also found out from coworker that a former coworker who has now left was informally reprimanded for leaving bad feedback as well.

    I’ve never filled these out but have been contemplating it recently. My boss knows we are insanely stretched but it doesn’t seem like relief is on the way and I’m burning out hard. I already am looking for a new job but unfortunately I waited until I was really unhappy and now I’m very resentful whenever I come into work. I don’t know how long it will take me to find a new job but it’s very hard with having a heavy workload and almost zero motivation to get through this stuff.

    If you were in my shoes, would you start filling these out- considering I’m really only looking for impact in the shorter term (next 6 months) and how my boss reacted?

    1. RD*

      I hate non-anonymous “anonymous” surveys! It seems like they want to figure out who wrote itnot to solve any problems but only to get people in trouble :( I guess I would be curious to see the reaction if I was confident that I was starting a new gig soon.

      1. braindump*

        the only time I’ve found it useful is when my employer did one at the height of the pandemic (for us) with questions like “are you food secure” and “do you have childcare”. They were able to reach people that needed help in those specific areas. If it’s to punish workers because of honest workplace answers, then shame on them.

    2. I'm just here for the cats!*

      If you think it’s true someone got fired for leaving bad feedback I wouldn’t complete the survey unless you had something set up. If they could figure out who wrote the feedback they could push you out before you have something lined up.

      1. Dolly was Right*

        The person who left wasn’t fired- she left on her own will. I also suspect part of the reason she was reprimanded was because (Pre-COVID) we had a firm-wide work from home 2 days a week policy (the only reason it wouldn’t be allowed is if you were on a PIP). Her manager almost never let their team work from home despite good performance so I suspect the manager was directly reprimanded herself.

    3. HigherEdAdminista*

      I wouldn’t start filling them out if you haven’t been, but I might be tempted to anonymously get a note to HR and say that your boss is trying to track down someone in the department who filled out a negative survey, so you don’t feel safe responding that way, but that the team is very overworked and the manager doesn’t seem to be acting.

      I know there isn’t a lot of value generally in an anonymous note, but given these particular circumstances it could be worth a shot.

      1. pancakes*

        Sending a note to HR about that on the basis of a coworker speculating that maybe that’s what happened seems premature to me. It seems just as likely that someone higher-up told the director that their department’s participation numbers are low and they should try to encourage more people to fill these out. Either way, it’s not advisable to write something really negative and personally identifying in this sort of survey. Fill them out or not, but it seems unnecessary to point out that it wouldn’t feel safe to be really negative.

    4. BRR*

      I think if a manager is going to do something about your workload, they would act on it whether it comes from their direct report or from HR via a survey. Basically, if you’re hoping for changes, I’m not sure you’ll get them if you do it via the survey if you don’t feel like you can approach your boss directly.

    5. AndersonDarling*

      It’s possible that HR noticed that no one on your team had been doing surveys and they prompted your boss to motivate the team to use the service.
      I’d do a neutral survey with the comment “We were told to start filling out these surveys.”

      1. Dolly was Right*

        Except we weren’t told to fill them out. And at no point was low participation pointed out nor we were encouraged to fill them out in any way – I may not fill mine out but my teammates does and knows others do as well. Here is how the conversation went
        Manager- do you guys fill out the work life balance surveys
        Me- no. I really should but i always forget to!
        Manager- ok what about everyone else
        Other people- various responses like yes, sometimes, etc…
        Manager- oh ok. just wondering

        It was an odd conversation to say the least- combined with knowing that someone else was reprimanded for providing bad feedback- I have a hard time believing this was supposed to be encouragement.

  11. RD*

    I put in notice earlier this week at my job, for a number of reasons, but primarily due to my long commute and inflexible WFH policies.

    I have another job lined up. Today HR met with me and asked if I would stay on if there was more flexibility offered etc. I told them it isn’t only about policy but the culture surrounding the policies.

    I don’t think I will take it, but wondering what your experiences have been with accepting counter offers. I realize it won’t solve all my issues with work, but it is an interesting proposition.

    1. foolofgrace*

      It’s said that most of the things that bother you about your current job will still bother you after you take the deal. How would you feel about that, day in and day out?

    2. J.B.*

      It’s a trap!

      Note that I don’t have any specific experience but my husband’s employer similarly offered him more flexibility to stay and neither of us trusted them to keep their promises.

    3. Panicked*

      I have never seen a counter-offer situation that worked out for the best long-term. I have seen a lot of employees who get termed after their current company found a replacement.

      1. Mental Lentil*

        Agreed. If there are only one or two things that bug you about your job and they address them and fix them, that’s one thing. But most people probably aren’t going to quit over one or two little things.

        If you’re ready to quit, there’s obviously a pretty big reason, or a whole lot of little reasons, or a combination thereof. And companies very rarely can or do address all of those, or even most.

      2. Esmeralda*

        It’s actually pretty common in academia in the US. My husband got a couple of good pay bumps to match offers from other universities.

    4. Liz*

      While I’ve never been in this position, my feeling is, there’s usually one or more GOOD reasons for leaving. And it seems to me, even if a company counteroffers with a great offer, it may only be a band-aid and not a full blown cure.

      Not exactly the same, but I left my last job after someone else left, a new person was hired, and once they came on board, I was going to be moved elsewhere (paralegal in a law firm, moving to a bigger practice group, with my own cases). However, the new hire ended up accepting a counteroffer from her employer, which I guess was too good to pass up. I knew that my moving was contingent on the other position being filled, and who knows how long that might take? I was miserable and started looking. I got a new job quickly, gave notice and never looked back!

    5. Dolly was Right*

      I think a big factor here is if you had previously raised issues with the inflexible WFH policy and asked for more and were told no or if this was a blanket policy you disagreed with and decided to leave over it.

      If it’s the former, then I would be wary. This means this is a company that doesn’t care about your well being until you’ve threatened to leave. And the next time you have an issue come up, it will be the same song and dance until you no longer work there. Also As foolofgrace said below, the other issues will still be there so it’s up to you to decide how to weigh that.

    6. Exif*

      I worked at one company where counter offers were just a way of life. People consistently used them to get raises and promotions. There were seldom any consequences or bitterness, and people stayed for years after the counter.

      I am aware that this is unusual, and sounds better than the usual “countering puts a target on your back” philosophy. But this company consistently underpaid people, who had to scratch and fight for every little raise/title change/general improvement. The atmosphere was a battleground.

      So my take: if countering dosn’t work, you definitely don’t want to be there. If countering does work, you still don’t want to be there.

    7. BRR*

      I’m not a fan of counter offers for all the reasons in Alison’s post on counter offers. One of the biggest points for me, is if a company is only willing to do something for you if they’re worried you’re leaving. I’m asking for a raise soon and I anticipate a no. I think if I had another offer it would be more likely to happen. But if my employer won’t give me a raise unless they’re worried I’m leaving, that’s all of the information I need to know.

    8. Mockingjay*

      I came back once to a job. I left for a lot of reasons (mainly, terrific old manager had left and his replacement was an ass and messed up the entire project). I was contacted by Old Job on the second day after I left. They begged me every day for 4 months to return and “fix” things. So I did (with more money).

      It was a mistake. I couldn’t fix anything. Don’t do it.

    9. Hiring Mgr*

      Despite the conventional wisdom I know at least three people who have had good experiences with counteroffers..

      In these cases though it was basically one issue that was resolved. In your case it sounds like there are a bunch of things so probably less of a likelihood to work out well

    10. Purple Cat*

      For me, once I decide I’m “done” with something, there’s no coming back from that. So if I was at the point of applying interviewing and accepting another job, there’s no counter-offer on earth that would get me to stay.

      1. Windchime*

        This is the way I am, too. Something flips in my brain and makes the decision seem irrevocable. It has happened with jobs and with personal relationships. I can put up with a lot and believe in giving the benefit of the doubt, but at a certain point the switch flips and I am DONE.

    11. Alex*

      Soo…they are saying they are going to change their entire culture for you? Yeah right.

      And if they offered YOU flexibility, how would that really play? Would others be resentful of you? Would your extra flexibility hurt your chances of advancement there?

      And I say this all as a person who accepted a counter-offer with no regrets about it.

      1. RD*

        that’s definitely something I am concerned with, even if they understand that the culture change is much needed. I have been here a long time so making the decision to leave was big and hard, and I kind of feel now that I’ve made it, why would I go back? But I am also surprised they’re bothering to counter offer at all. Not usually the MO.

      2. Autumnheart*

        Or would they promise that you’d have flexibility, but then deny you every time you tried to use it and blame it on situational issues: it’s the busy season, someone else is out, it’d be awkward for the rest of the team, etc. Then after a few months, “You should’ve gotten the hint by now that that offer of flexibility wasn’t real.”

    12. RagingADHD*

      I had a good experience accepting a counter offer, but only because I wasn’t looking to leave in the first place. I got headhunted by a firm that offered me a lot more money for specialist skills, when I’d hired on at fair pay as a generalist.

      I liked the job and the team I already had, so when they matched the money I had no reason to go into a new & unknown situation.

      If I’d been dissatisfied and looking, I don’t think promises to change would be worth staying for.

    13. MissDisplaced*

      If the only issue was salary or PTO, a counter offer might do the trick. But if you have other issues with the policies or culture, you know those really aren’t going to go away.

    14. linger*

      HR may be interested in retaining you specifically, but also just as interested in identifying issues that could lead to a more widespread exodus. So this is at least an opportunity to share your reasons for leaving (though stopping short of naming individual coworkers if that is the case!)

    15. allathian*

      It can work, but only sometimes. When my husband got his Master’s in engineering, he started his career at a company whose head office was in a small town a 5-hour drive away from his family and a regional office in my area. When I met him, he’d been there for 3 years and he still didn’t know anyone in that town except his coworkers, at least partly because he’d travel home nearly every weekend, or else his friends from here would visit him there. When we started dating, he spent most of his free time with me, with only an occasional guys’ weekend there. Pretty soon he started negotiating a move to the regional office, but he didn’t get a transfer until he told his boss that he had another offer from a company here. They didn’t want to let him go, so his manager asked what it would take for him to stay, and he just said he wanted to transfer to the regional office, which he got, as well as a small COL raise, which he was glad to get but I’m not sure if he asked for or not. There have been a couple of reorganizations and a change in ownership, but he’s still working for the same company 13 years later.

      So it can work sometimes, but only if it’s an issue that’s relatively easy to solve and not related to company culture and management, etc. I don’t know why my husband’s then-manager was so fixated on him working at HQ, but once he realized that my husband was ready to quit over it, he changed his tune pretty quickly.

    16. JelloStapler*

      I would be concerned that the flexibility they offer will still be below par and culture won’t change.

  12. Canadian Valkyrie.*

    I need to brush up my marketing skills for career plans I have. I cannot afford a diploma or full time 8 month certificates AND I have a marketing certificate already. I do not need the marketing basics courses that I seem to be able to fnd online. As I already know marketing stuff, I need highly specific courses. I’m not sure if they just don’t offer this in Canada or what’s the problem here but I am looking for ways to update my skills. Getting these skills in my job is not an option. I need to do it on my own time.

    1. cubone*

      free courses: Linkedin learning? Udemy? Coursera? Even just YouTube? It might also help if you mentioned the “highly specific” skills you’re needing, in case people have specific recommendations for those.

      I’m not in marketing but I have a lot of friends who are, and one thing I seem to have noticed is that while the education pieces matter, proof of application (like a portfolio) seems to be just as important, if not more. So what about teaching yourself this stuff through something like YouTube, and then volunteering somewhere to apply them? Then you have a project portfolio or a specific role to add on your resume. I used to work in volunteer management in Canada and I can promise you, there were a ton of places looking for ad hoc marketing volunteers. I get that you’re looking for courses, not volunteering, but hey, it doesn’t cost anything and gives you tangible, concrete examples of different work.

      1. Canadian Valkyrie.*

        I’m in grad school right now so volunteering isn’t really in the cards. My schedule isn’t predictable enough to allow for definite follow through.

        The specific skills I need tend to be more in line with, like, how to take photos for Instagram without hiring a photographer every time you need a picture, how to create a brand strategy, etc without it being overly generic. When I was in college for all of this, a lot of the stuff was very vague like “here’s the high level stuff that goes into a strategy”. Now I’ve barely used my education because I hated corporate marketing and never had a reason to use it until now.

        1. Caboose*

          Based on the ads I see for it, it sounds like SkillShare might be a good fit for you? It seems like there’s a lot of courses focused on creating content and strategizing for stuff like that.

        2. pancakes*

          I don’t know if it’s still there, but Etsy used to have a lot of guidance on those sort of things in the Help section. Some of it was specific to listing things on their site, of course, but there was a lot of more general content about how to take better photos, how to start thinking about branding, etc.

        3. Alex*

          Lots of influencers & bloggers offer classes in this stuff —particularly the photography & social media aspects. Be very very selective about who you pick, and make sure you analyze their online presence, but I do know they cover what you’re talking about. It’s unregulated though: some are experts and genuine, and some are very much a scam.

          1. Dolly was Right*

            I agree with this! The only one I know of is My Life’s a travel movie, a self-made female travel blogger I’ve been following for years and all of her engagement and growth is 100% genuine. I think she has a few courses on her website. I know I’m just a stranger on the internet so feel free to vet for yourself- because HARD agree there are definitely scammer courses out there. Even if you don’t purchase the course, she has tons of tips on how to get great photos on her blog and insta.

    2. MissDisplaced*

      I have my masters in communication but last year took a short certificate course in marketing strategies because I felt I needed more experience on the marketing aspect.
      Check out Cornell University, they have several specific options of certificates. I’ve also found Udemy good for specific skills (such as analytics) or digital marketing or software.

    3. Been There*

      Google offers courses and certificates for its products for free, and I think they’re pretty well regarded.

  13. NT interpeter needed*

    Hi, all, quick question. I am neurodivergent and I have a question about something my reports do that sort of trips me up. They really frequently apologize for things that really need no apology, e.g. “sorry to bother you” when asking a question, or “sorry I didn’t get to this sooner,” or things like that. Should I just take that as a social nicety like “how are you?” or ….what? Sometimes I say “no worries” or something like that, and very occasionally when people say “sorry to bother you,” I say, “that is literally my job, you are keeping me employed” just as a way to say, no need to apologize for asking me questions. What do those mean and how should I respond, if at all?

    1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

      I’m not neurotypical but I tend to apologize when I’m nervous about annoying people or messing things up. .

    2. Anon Designer*

      Hey there! This is a social nicety, and likely also a cultural thing. They’re acknowledging that they’re interupting you and signaling respect for your time and attention. You’re right that it’s in the same spirit as “how are you”, and “no worries” is a fine response.

      1. cubone*

        Agreed. It’s a social nicety and a way of saying “I want you to know I value your time and if I had been able to figure this out on my own, I would’ve”.

        One thing you could also do as a manager is lead by example. Genuine apologies are fine but as you’ve noticed, this can be a hard/confusing cultural thing to pick up on, not to mention it’s well known that it can tend to disproportionately be something women do. I had a manager who was excellent at “thanking” instead of saying sorry really well and I think it’s a really good practice. Instead of “sorry about this” it was “thank you for making the time to help me with this” or “thank you for being so patient, here is the report” (instead of “sorry this is late”). It might help to model this to your direct report and maybe they’ll pick up on being appreciative, rather than apologetic. Obviously it doesn’t sound like you’re the overly apologetic one and maybe you already do this, but thought I’d mention it.

    3. BenAdminGeek*

      It’s definitely just a social nicety. It’s basically them acknowledging that your time is valuable but they have something important to chat about. It’s the work equivalent of the head nod and hand wave people do to a driver who stops so they can cross the street.

    4. Purt’s Peas*

      The responses you mention are both things that I would say in response. I think your instincts are correct. You can also add, “no worries, I’ve got time!” especially if you look like you’re busy.

      In this case, I’d interpret “sorry to bother you” as both a “how are you” kind of social nicety, but also as an invitation to say, “no bother, but can you come back in 15 minutes if it’s not an emergency?” if you don’t have time.

    5. Llellayena*

      It’s a vocal tic for most people, you can safely ignore it or respond with “no problem” or “no worries.” If there’s a specific person who does this much more often or seems anxious about it you can occasionally drop in a “there’s no need to apologize, I’m here to help.” I realize recognizing anxiety might be difficult so you can focus on just frequency as an indicator if you prefer.

    6. ecnaseener*

      Some people do tend to over-apologize. I think the way you’re responding is fine in that case, you could maybe be slightly more direct (“No need to apologize, my job is to answer your questions!”)
      Also, things like “sorry I didn’t get to this sooner” may function less as an apology and more an acknowledgment: “I’m aware that it would’ve been better that I got to this sooner, so you don’t need to tell me. I’m on top of it.”

      However if it’s a pattern among most of your reports, it might be that you’re accidentally sending “displeasure” signals. For example, when someone interrupts your work to ask a question maybe you look or sound a little frustrated at being interrupted (this can happen even if you’re not really frustrated but just taking a second to switch gears).

      You can try to counteract this by smiling / acting cheerful if you remember in the moment (easier said than done I know). Or you can address it: “Oh, did I sound annoyed or something? I didn’t mean to — you have nothing to apologize for.”

    7. Purple Cat*

      I’ve always believed I’m neurotypical, but also feel like I could have written this letter, so maybe I’m not?
      Or maybe (more likely) this isn’t a symptom of your neurodivergence and is just a typical personality variant.

      I have one employee who apologizes for asking me questions and it drives me batty. I also tell him that it is literally my job to answer his questions so to stop apologizing. In my situation, I know it’s that he thinks I’m “too busy” to answer his questions, so I reassure him that I will always have time for his questions.

      For the most part, this is a throw-away comment that people make, but evaluate if you need to schedule standing check-ins with your team where they *know* they’re not bothering you with questions, and/or more check-ins on workloads and tasks so you know exactly why they’re not getting to things in a timely manner…

    8. Esmeralda*

      social convention, they are not actually apologizing.
      Your responses are good! I’m neurotypical and say very similar things. You could say, “It’s no bother at all” or “I’m always happy to help”

    10. RagingADHD*

      I’d say it does carry some minor information on top of being just a social nicety.

      “Sorry to bother you” = Is this a good time, or should I come back later?

      If yes, you can reply with pretty much any positive, reassuring starement, like “It’s no bother,” “Come on in,” “Not at all, what can I help with?” or a jokey, “Please bother me!”

      If it truly was not a good time, you can say, “It’s fine, but can you give me twenty minutes?” Or “Just let me finish this thing,” or whatever the case may be.

      For “Sorry I didn’t get to this sooner,” that could express some concern as to whether they are meeting expectations. So, in the moment it’s totally appropriate to reply with “no worries,” but you might take a look at your overall policies and work schedules.

      Are your reports very clear on when things are due? Maybe they need more structure so they know for sure that they are not late or causing a bottleneck.

      Also, how often do you give feedback on performance? They might need more reassurance that they are doing a good job.

      These phrases could just be verbal habits that they were taught as good manners. Or they could be indicating a bit of hesitancy or uncertainty. It’s hard to tell without seeing/hearing the person.

    11. Seeking Second Childhood*

      Your answers sound very much like answers I’ve given. In fact I make a point of telling new hires that I am a good person to ask questions because I firmly believe that questions are how we learn.

    12. Autumnheart*

      Instead of saying “This is literally my job,” you could say something like, “Happy to help! What can I do for you?” or in the case of “Sorry I didn’t get to this sooner,” maybe something like “You’re good. What can I help you with?”

      A lot of people use “sorry” as a social lubricant, and it doesn’t have to mean more than that.

    13. Possible Interpretation*

      This can also be thought of as a way to temper expectations before the conversation begins.

      It’s a subtle way of saying “I am anticipating that this simple question will either l
      A) lead to the discovery of an underlying problem which is MUCH less simple… because they are directly related
      or
      B) will show my ineptitude with exceptional clarity, and I’m embrarassed about it but the question still needs to be asked.

      1. Crackerjack*

        I think I use it this way. I find my boss hard to read and know she’s very busy so I often feel like I AM bothering her. I use this both as a way of announcing: ‘I am about to bother you’ {i.e. interrupt you} or as an anxious person, in hopes she’ll say ‘no bother!’ with a big smile (which she never does, which annoyingly enough makes me want to say it more the next time because it makes me think every question is a bother but tough luck, I still have questions).

    14. Chaordic One*

      Often these chronic apologizists have a bit of a self-esteem problem that usually goes back to childhood. They may have been blamed for things that they were not responsible for and/or berated for asking questions and/or not doing things as timely as other might want them. And there are a lot of workplaces (and bad managers in otherwise good workplaces) where some people will continue to be blamed for things that they are not responsible for and berated for asking questions.

      Your “no worries” response is perfectly acceptable and fine. In some situations, where you regularly deal with these chronic apologizits, you can certainly explain to them that they do not need to apologize for asking questions. And, hopefully, they’ll stop.

      1. After 33 years ...*

        Or, they are Canadian. As a Department Head, I used this language when speaking with faculty members, staff, direct reports, and students on many occasions. It’s not uncommon for our Dean / Provost / President to begin a request for information or opinion in that way. “Sorry” may be the most common word in Canadian English.

  14. Stuckinacrazyjob*

    I’m considering taking some vacation time, since I’ve been mentally and physically exhausted but what do you guys do with all the work that piles up? I know I shouldn’t care because I’m not getting anything done anyway, but it bothers me.

    My boss wants to think of someway to help me since I’ve not been able to work well for weeks. I’m not sure if resting will help at all to be honest or how long it’ll take me to recover. I can’t think if anything to say although I’m sure she’s worried about me.

    1. ThatGirl*

      If someone else can take part of your workload they should – that’s on your boss. Otherwise maybe ask her how you should handle it? After a rest you may be in better mental shape to catch back up, too.

    2. Nannerdoodle*

      If you need to take vacation time because of burnout, take the time. Don’t keep working to try and get on top of your workload; it’ll just make it worse because you’ll never catch up if you never take a break. As far as what to say to your boss, be straightforward about how much time you have prior to and after vacation and what you think you can get done. Then ask how your boss wants you to prioritize. Something like “With my vacation coming up, I’m wondering how you want me to prioritize getting things done. I have time for two of A, B, and C, but not all three. Who will be working on one of those while I’m out?” And if you know that some of your work will cause issues while you’re out if it’s not completed, you can say “B definitely needs to be done while I’m gone because Fergus needs it for X and Y.” Your boss should be able to figure out who can cover part of your role while you’re gone. And if it’s a general issue that your entire department is swamped/understaffed, then your boss needs to take that up the chain, not push it back on you.

      1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

        Yea, not only is everyone swamped, it seems that every bit of work is important. Like we’re having an audit, and I haven’t been able to get the documents and of course we’ll get in trouble. And we have the monthly documents… When someone is out, only a very small portion of your work is covered, because nobody has the bandwidth to do any of the stuff you’re supposed to be doing on top of their other work. Even worse I’ve been so tired I’ve barely helped anyone for months…

        1. Autumnheart*

          Honestly…that’s when you go on vacation, take your much-needed rest, and let the wheels come off the cart.

          If work is late, if the company gets in trouble, if nobody can get to it? That’s the company’s problem. And they won’t fix it until it hurts them. So let it hurt.

    3. Cold Fish*

      If it has gotten to the point that your boss is worried and trying to troubleshoot, I think you need to take your vacation pronto. Your boss is noticing your burnout and that is not good. Is there any way you’d feel comfortable talking to your boss, explain that you need the rest for your own health but don’t know how restful it will be knowing that each day is just that much more work waiting for you when you get back?

      The only suggestion I have is try to find people to cover before you go, rather than assume someone will help out while your gone. So, talk to John about covering for Project X and Sue about covering for Project Y. Then setting up your email so that any emails that comes in regarding X will be forwarded to John and emails regarding Y will be forwarded to Sue. I don’t know how your office works but it could be that John has time to forward this info on X to third party but doesn’t have time to check your email to know that request is sitting in your inbox while you are out.

    4. Daisy-dog*

      Do take some time off. If you have enough vacation to do longer than a week, that is ideal. Be sure to plan some activities during that time – even if it’s just walk around your favorite park each day or watch a Netflix show. Too little stimulation can lead to fretting about work. You will not “recover” in that time period, but you will hopefully feel less weary.

      To prepare, discuss what will need to be done with your supervisor. I agree, when you’re in a role that no one else does, it can be very stressful to take time off because you need to do a lot of preparation in advance and catch-up when you return. So tell your supervisor that. What can she do to mitigate this stress? Can a project be bumped until there is more support or fewer distractions? Is there a task that she knows how to do that she can manage? Or with that task, can she delegate it and provide the instructions herself? You don’t know what support to ask for, so present the issues and work together for a solution.

    5. twocents*

      I don’t know where you work, but I remind my mom who works at a library and has this struggle with taking time off and worrying about the workload: no one is going to die. If the book takes an extra week to get sorted, then … it takes a week. Don’t kill yourself even for your very nice boss. Any time limits are artificial.

  15. mad scientist*

    I have a name where the shortened version of it is incredibly popular, and I don’t know anyone with this name that doesn’t go by the shortened version. To make it easier I can just say it–my name is Jaclyn. I HATE the name Jackie. My parents didn’t like it, and I have never been called Jackie by anyone. I always introduce myself as Jaclyn. However, at work, fairly often, I introduce myself as Jaclyn and, in the middle of the conversation sometimes, people will switch to calling me Jackie.
    Anyone have anything I can say to people in the moment to stop this? I know it’s stupid but it’s driving me up a wall. It seems rude to just say “actually it’s Jaclyn” constantly.

    1. Littorally*

      They are the ones being rude, not you.

      Think of it this way — if they said a completely different name, you wouldn’t have a problem correcting them. “Hi, my name’s Andrea.” “Nice to meet you, Antoinette.” You’d just assume they misheard or had one of those brains that are swiss cheese for names, right? Treat this like that.

      “Yeah, so Jackie…” “Jaclyn, please.”

      If they get butthurt about being corrected, well, then they should call you by the name you’ve introduced yourself by. They are the problem here, not you.

    2. ThatGirl*

      It’s not rude to correct people on your name, as long as you don’t snarl at them or something :) just say “actually it’s Jaclyn” or “I prefer Jaclyn”, it’s fine!

    3. Pascall*

      A slightly more polite correction should be fine. “Oh, I actually go by Jaclyn! I’m not super fond of the shortened version.” At least until you’re fairly sure everyone at your workplace is familiar.

      If they still refer to you as Jackie at that point – after you’ve already corrected them once or twice, then it’s totally fine to be a little more blunt about it.

      I have the same issue with my pronouns sometimes since I use they/them and we’ve had new people start since an official announcement was made to my department about my pronouns, so the new people struggle with them more. I correct them politely until it seems like they’re purposefully ignoring my request.

      1. They/Them Somewhere*

        Thank you!!! I am going through the same thing right now with pronouns. One seems to be trying but the others arent and its exhuasting.

        1. Pascall*

          Don’t be afraid to talk to your HR or manager if your pronouns are deliberately being ignored. I can generally tell that my department doesn’t misgender me on purpose, so I’m very patient and kind with them, but I don’t doubt that there can be some malicious people out there who do not care and will do it just because they refuse to be respectful.

          Advocate for yourself and be unashamed about it!

    4. I'm just here for the cats!*

      I know a jacklyn that has the same problem you do. Hates to be called Jackie. I think if you are nice about it when correcting someone then you are fine. If you say “actually I go by Jaclyn not jackie” you should be fine.

      DON’T do what the Jacklyn that I knew did and have a huff. When I asked Jaclyn for something she got all huffy and ignored me! Even though she was literally 3 feet in front of me. After me asking her several times she turned around in a huff and said “Don’t call me Jackie ever! I don’t answer to that name!” I was new to the company so I didn’t know her that well and there was another Jacklyn who went by Jackie on another team.

      Now what that Jacklyn did was rude. You politely asking someone to call you Jacklyn is fine.

      1. Sleeping Late Every Day*

        My name has a “shortened” version (in quotes because, like Jac(k)lyn/Jackie, they’re both two simple damn syllables. I will not answer to the nickname because I detest the nickname version and I have never gone by it. There are people who do. I don’t. It’s not my name. People who call me by it are the rude ones. I just want to be called by my own name.

    5. Alice*

      Correct them! As long as you are not snarling, it will be fine with any reasonable person. And with unreasonable people what can you do anyway….
      I will note that, when people let a wrong nickname or pronunciation go for a long time, it makes things awkward when you finally do correct it. I’ve had professional contacts do that and it makes me wonder, “what else is going on that you are not speaking up about?” I mean, their name, they get to decide how to say it and they can change their mind. But this doesn’t have to be a high-stakes emotionally-charged interaction — just tell people when they get it wrong, every time, in a pleasant tone of voice. If someone is *clearly* doing it to be rude, deal with that, but it’s pretty rare IME.

    6. Liz*

      I feel your pain. I go by a nickname for a very popular and common first name. But mine is not common. Think Katherine, and I go by Rina, not Kat, Kathy or Katie. But for “formal” and legal stuff, I go by Katherine. I can’t tell ou how many people will see my full name, and call me by a more common shortened version of it. Grrrr.

      1. Scarlet Magnolias*

        I’ve posted this before but have had many people abbreviate my name (think “Les” instead of “Lesley”) what I do is nickname them (“Bobby instead of “Robert”) and when they correct me, I correct them. Sometimes takes a couple of tries but usually works like a charm.

        1. Alice*

          Honestly, this seems a little adversarial. Plus, what if they are happy for you to abbreviate their name, and they never correct you?

    7. Jshaden*

      It’s not rude to correct people who are rudely calling you the wrong name. I have related problem, with a less common name that sounds similar to more common names, so I get called by the wrong name often. I’ll correct people, but if it becomes persistent, I honestly stop replying when some addresses “Sandra” instead of “Sansa”. There isn’t a “Sandra” in room, and if they want my input, they can address “Sansa”.

    8. Charlotte Lucas*

      I have a name that’s already a nickname, but some people feel compelled to shorten it further. One person I know does that to everyone. Apparently, 2 syllables are too much. I ignore her, but otherwise, there’s nothing wrong with saying, “Oh, it’s Jaclyn. Nobody calls me Jackie.” Tone makes a big difference here: friendly the first time & colder for repeat offenders.

      1. Camelid coordinator*

        Me, too! I always say that I am very fond of the vowel at the end of my name. I hope this makes sense without saying my name.

          1. linger*

            Or Anna with an a.
            (Not making a guess, just pointing out that the problem as described could affect pronunciation rather than only spelling.)

    9. Bean Counter Extraordinaire*

      I have one of these names as well – think Katherine, and people try to shorten it to Kate/Katie.
      I just say something like “Oh, I never use (whatever they’ve just called me), I stick with Katherine” – assuming this is the first time you’ve addressed it with them, and they’re not continuing to call you the wrong name out of jerkiness.

    10. straws*

      Agree with all the above, you just have to keep correcting them. I’m in a similar situation and just dealt with the nickname most of my life, even though I hated it. I’ve finally started taking my name back and it’s hard for people to adjust after knowing me by a different name for many years. So the sooner you can correct someone, the better so they don’t have a habit of calling you the wrong name.

    11. Nick Names suck*

      I have one of these names also. Say Samantha and everyone calls me Sam. I correct people constantly, I introduce myself as Samantha and after the first couple times of correcting people, I just stop responding. Or I wait for them to call me multiple times and then go Oh sorry, I didn’t realize you were taking to me, my name is Samantha not Sam.

    12. AnonEMoose*

      I feel your pain. My first name has a lot of nicknames associated with it, and I hate being called any of them. It’s gotten easier as I’ve gotten older… fewer people try to insist on giving me a nickname.

      Usually, the first time, I try to go with a fairly breezy “Oh, I go by X…call me Y and I won’t even realize you’re talking to me!” I have had to get pretty insistent with people in the past, but not so much in more recent years.

    13. AnotherLibrarian*

      While I agree you can correct people politely without it being rude, I would also strongly advise picking your battles and deciding time and place. People you work with constantly- correct them. People who email you, you only see once a year, or customers you just are never going to see again- it is probably not worth the energy to fix it. I have a name that is a variation of a common name (think Lindy rather than Linda) and I’ve learned that it is just not always worth the mental energy.

      1. AnonEMoose*

        I disagree with this a bit. Only because, even if you only see/work with them rarely, they may still be mentioning you/introducing you to others, and then the disliked nickname spreads. It’s worse than the common cold, really, and in my experience, every time you don’t correct it, it makes it that much harder to eliminate. But…it may depend on just how much you hate the nickname. I really, REALLY hate it when people just decide to rename me at their whim, so it’s worth the energy expenditure to me.

        1. I Don't Go By Liz*

          Yes, this. I have one coworker who is generally who started calling me Liz and I didn’t interact with her much, and she was always friendly about it, and I was new to the work world, and I did used to go by Liz when I was in school, and, and, and… so I didn’t correct her.

          Suddenly more and more people started calling me Liz. And then an Elizabeth who does go by Liz started in our department, and well… suddenly I was Liz a LOT more than I wanted to be.

          So I’d say if it’s someone you know you’re only ever going to interact with once, sure, don’t say anything. But if it’s really going to bother you, you should speak up. Kindly, and maybe with a bit of humor, but speak up.

          1. Also not Liz*

            Yup. I’m an Elizabeth who goes by Elizabeth, and it’s amazing how many people decide I should be Liz when they meet me. Or I’ll introduce myself as Elizabeth and they’ll say, oh, do you go by Liz or Beth? I mean, I know a four-syllable name is a lot to say, but I really love my name!

    14. Cold Fish*

      It’s kind of stupid and corny but when you introduce yourself could you try “I’m Jaclyn, rhymes with win” or something like that. Put the emphasis on the “lyn” that people want to ignore?

    16. Donkey Hotey*

      I empathize, as I am in a similar situation. Bonus, the CFO/IT guy has my same name and prefers the Jackie-equivalent, so he assumes I’m just like him.
      I recently started experimenting with a spin on the verbiage people use to shift from titles to first names.
      “Mr. Hotey is my father, I’m Donkey.” or in this case, “Jackie is my mom, I’m Jaclyn.”
      Good luck!

    17. Not So NewReader*

      I think a lot of people actually do not mind being corrected.

      Personally, I want to be told and told right away. I think that the problem comes in when I have been calling you Jackie for a period of time and you have not told me. (And I am probably calling you Jackie because someone introduced you to me as Jackie. I make it a point to try to get people’s names right.)

      If this is what you have going on now, it’s fine to say, “Ya know, I actually prefer Jaclyn.” If you want you can say, “I am sorry I did not mention it sooner.” Or “I have been trying to let everyone know.”

      It’s your name. I don’t want to start a conversation by irritating anyone with the incorrect name. Using the wrong name is a solid way to let people know “I don’t care!”.

    18. R*

      Maybe you’re thinking about this in the wrong direction. I say you weaponize it and insist that people call you Jax. Sure, it’s worse, but it’s worse on your terms.

      1. PollyQ*

        I don’t get it. How is “Jax” weaponized? How is it “worse”? If someone asked me to call them Jax as a nickname for Jacklyn, or Jackson, or even John, I wouldn’t think twice about it.

    19. Octavia*

      As someone with the same nickname problem and dislikes my shortened version as well, here’s a couple other tips to consider on top of the suggestions others offered already:

      If I’m just having a first conversation with someone with one these names, I’ll ask that person their preference. (“I’m a Samantha, so I have to ask this – are you a Thomas or a Tom?”) Usually leads to some light banter and commiseration as a lot of people have those frequently shortened names. Seems to help folks remember as well.

      Enlist others. As others worked with me and knew I had a preference, they started correcting people either on the side (a good use of Skype!) or live in the call.

      If it’s just a casual 1:1 conversation, though, I’ll usually just casually correct it, the same way I would if someone called me an unrelated name.

    20. RagingADHD*

      It is not rude to correct people.

      Nice people will naturally feel some slight, momentary discomfort to discover that they inadvertently stepped on your toes. That doesn’t make it rude for you to speak up! Their tiny amount of fleeting chagrin is a lot less than your experirnce of being stepped on repeatedly.

      As you rightly observe, this form is so common that most peopke take it for granted. They won’t know unless you tell them.

      And once you have a few people around who have been set right, it will be easier for new people. They will hear others using the correct form and are more likely to understand that you don’t shorten it.

    21. Seeking Second Childhood*

      I’d respond like I do when people use “Mrs” for me. First time’s a joke: “Every time you say Mrs. $LastName, I look for my motherinlaw.” Second time’s more serious: “Ms. $LastName please. I don’t use Mrs.”
      Similarly when my husband “Ferghus” gets abbreviated to his father’s nickname “Gus” , he says “If you want to catch my attention, you’re better off using my name than my father’s.”

    22. PollyQ*

      Nth-ing that it is definitely not rude to correct people and that they’re the ones who are being rude by ignoring your stated preference. You may want to switch up or intensify how you let people know when they repeatedly call you “Jackie.”

      “Actually, it’s Jaclyn” > “Please call me Jaclyn” > “I go by Jaclyn, not Jackie” > “I dislike being called Jackie, PLEASE call me Jaclyn” > “Dude, WTF?! I’ve told you a million times my name is Jaclyn, what is your problem?!?!” (OK, not that last one, but really, what is their problem?)

    23. Not A Manager*

      I’m super late to this, but I think all of these responses use too many words. Just be very bland and boring, and say your correct name Every Time. “So, Jackie,” – “Jaclyn.” – “we need the materials next week.” “As Jackie was saying…” – “Jaclyn.” – “we’re still waiting on the vendor.”

      Every Time. “Jaclyn.” No inflection, no heat.

  16. Anonymous Pygmy Possum*

    I’ve asked about transitioning from software development to something like technical writing here before, so I’m hoping I can get some more information from questions. Is it worth it to get a graduate certificate in something, e.g. technical communication?

    Here’s why I’m thinking about it:
    – It’s less costly/less intensive than a full-on graduate degree, like a Masters, and it would leave me the option to go get a Master’s later, if I really want to.
    – There’s a lot of jobs out there for a Technical Writer that require a portfolio, which is understandable, but all of my writing/editing experience isn’t publicly available yet. Plus, I don’t have that much out there yet, but I really would like to get out of my current job within the next year, and most of the jobs I’m seeing really want writing experience. (I’ve applied to some, but haven’t really started intensively searching – I plan to start that soon.)

    I’m mostly just wondering if anyone here has made the jump from dev work to technical communication work, and if that a graduate certificate is even worth it, or if I should be focusing on something else.

    1. foolofgrace*

      Former tech writer of 20+ years here. I still get emails from recruiters, and all of the tech writer jobs I’ve been seeing are asking for graphics capabilities like Photoshop or some such. Not all companies will demand a lengthy work portfolio, as long has you have *something* to show them, and have the graphics skills. I’d be hard-pressed to go back to tech writing despite my lengthy portfolio because I lack the graphics thing. A tech writing certificate probably wouldn’t hurt, if you could find something.

      1. Anonymous Pygmy Possum*

        Interesting! I have a couple of programs in mind, and they all have some sort of editing/graphics course to take, so that doesn’t surprise me. Thank you so much for your insight!

      2. Donkey Hotey*

        Concur. I use InDesign and Photoshop daily, often composing directly into the layout.
        As to portfolio, having something to show – even a page or two – works.

    2. Teapot Repair Technician*

      I’ve been a tech writer for 15+ years. I transitioned from technical support and don’t have any degrees/certificates related to tech writing. As far as I can tell, that’s true of many (if not most) tech writers.

      My “portfolio” is a manila folder with printouts of things I’ve written over the years. If I had to, I would consolidate them into a flattened PDF (so they couldn’t be easily searched or copied) since some of it isn’t publicly available. I’ve never had an issue providing writing samples on paper with the explanation that I’m not authorized to transmit them electronically. I’ve never had to include writing samples with a job application; I usually bring them to my first interview.

      When I was up for my first tech writing job, my portfolio consisted of things I’d written as part of my tech support job–emails to customers, troubleshooting instructions, training material, internal process documents, etc.

      Rather than pursuing formal training right away, I would recommend these steps:

      Read the “Microsoft Manual of Style.” You don’t have to follow it specifically (unless you’re writing for Microsoft), but it will give you a good idea of how tech writers think.

      Similarly, read the “DITA Style Guide.” Even if you’re not writing DITA content, understanding DITA will help you with general tech writing.

      Learn InDesign, FrameMaker and/or RoboHelp. Again, you won’t necessarily use these tools for every job, but understanding them will help you understand how technical documents are made.

      As another commenter mentioned, learn Photoshop. Also Illustrator. You don’t have to be super talented at them, but competency is useful.

      Take an interest in graphic design, typographic design, and especially page layout design. Again, you don’t have to be talented in those fields, but it helps to know about them.

      1. Anonymous Pygmy Possum*

        That’s good to know, thanks! I’ve already got FrameMaker down – I’ve been using for about a month at my current job, and I have some experience with Photoshop, though it has been a while. If I get any interviews it’s good to know I can print out the documents I already have, even if they’re not publicly available.

    3. it's me*

      You definitely don’t need a graduate certificate just as a prereq for tech writing. A place is going to be more interested if you have experience in either the system or type of system you’re documenting, and/or the type of deliverable you’d end up with, and/or the tools you’d be using to create the deliverable. It’s very possible to get certificates/official records/etc. of learning the tool(s) in question.

      I’ve had success with demonstrating writing skill with writing a sample document for a fake product.

    4. Donkey Hotey*

      OK, one more thing: while a full graduate degree might be overkill, I would strongly advise against just jumping in.
      e.g. My current employer has been around since the 50s and they make industrial machinery. When I started, four years ago, I was the first trained writer they had ever hired. I have been cleaning up what they thought was good writing for four years and it’s a bloody miracle we haven’t been sued. The engineers would say, “What are you talking about? I can totally understand that!” and ignore the fact that the people using the equipment often do not have high school diplomas, let alone engineering degrees.

      1. Teapot Repair Technician*

        Good point. I’ve been there a couple of times–being a company’s first real tech writer and taking over from someone (or a series of people) who didn’t know what they were doing. I wouldn’t recommend that as anyone’s first foray into tech writing.

        Regardless of how much training you’ve had, ideally, your first tech writing job would be working under (or with) another more experienced tech writer.

    5. Fran Fine*

      I wasn’t a software developer, but I work for a software company and enrolled in a graduate certificate program in Technical Writing last year because, like you, I didn’t have a portfolio for when I was going to begin looking for a new job. My program was excellent – I learned the proper way to create training guides, design and help tools like Canva and ClickHelp (we were supposed to learn RoboHelp, but not everyone in my cohort could access that software for free so we went with CH), and I now have an amazing portfolio that got me a new job (an internal promotion with a 13% raise) three weeks after “graduating.”

      I think you can gain a lot of skills in the right program, and if your employer will pay for it (mine did), you should definitely do it. The networking opportunities with instructors who are actually in the field is also a benefit.

  18. kdizzle*

    New-ish manager here (since December). I’ve been within the office for 10+ years and decided to step-in to the management spot when there was an unexpected death of the supervisor. It felt like the right thing to do, although I was a tad reluctant at first. I’ve pretty much had my hair on fire since I took over.

    I think I’ve navigated everything pretty well since then with some obvious manager mistakes as I wade my way through the transition of being a manager instead of a peer.

    I’m hiring my first two people who start this week. It’s all virtual. Help me out here….what kind of things do you wish your manager told you in the first weeks on the job? How can I help make them feel as though they’re part of the team even though we’re all virtual?

    1. Colette*

      Timecards, if necessary – how do they do that? How often? Is there a code they need to use?
      Vacation and sick leave policies, and how to request it
      What about things like getting a computer, office equipment, pens, etc.? What is the policy/how do they do it?
      Have a meeting with the rest of the team and introduce them.
      Set up one-on-ones with them
      Assign someone to go to with questions

      1. Colette*

        Oh, also how do they get their pay or benefits set up/do any required HR paperwork?
        And invite them to recurring meetings for your team.

      2. Annie Moose*

        Yes, all of this!! Good for when you have someone new joining your team even if they’ve already been at your company for awhile, too. Every team and every company has their own way of dealing with stuff like sick time, requisitioning equipment, time logging…

        I’d also introduce them to key people outside your team, especially any support staff they should know. Folks like key HR people, if you have an office manager or relevant admin, the person who handles interoffice mail, whatever. If you have an org chart, sharing that could be helpful too, so they know who the managers are/what the division of teams is/that sort of thing.

    2. Bayta Darrell*

      I just started a new job and it was helpful to have a reference sheet. Important phone numbers, the names and purposes of different systems and my login information for them, that kind of stuff. Also, try to let them know about norms. Are you cameras on or cameras off? Is it okay if a dog or child walks in the room or is that frowned upon? Is it okay to just call over Teams/Zoom/whatever, or should they message first? When people send stuff in messages like Teams, is it okay (or even expected) that they use reactions? Additionally, try to loop them in when unusual situations happen. “Hey, we don’t see it very often that a customer wants a white chocolate teapot instead of a milk chocolate or dark chocolate one, but a request just came in so let me show you how to process that in the system.” Ladtly, check on them frequently. They may feel weird about “bothering” you with a question.

    3. KC*

      I am also a brand new manager. In last month I have onboarded 3 people. Here is what I have done so far:

      1. Detailed training plan – list of tasks, trainings, procedures needing read, people to “meet”, etc. This was something I could give them their first day and they would work on it when I wasn’t training them personally.
      2. Detailed job description – what exactly are their roles
      3. Set up a reoccurring 1-on-1 meeting.
      4. Have all their equipment (computer, extra monitor, mouse, headphones, company swag, email set up, access to drives, etc.) all set up on day one.
      5. Given them tasks they could immediately start to work on. Sometimes it takes a bit to train someone and it is not all going to happen in the first 1, 2, 3+ weeks. And I didn’t want them to be bored reading procedures or watching training videos all day.
      6. Had them create an “About Me” slide to share with others in our company/team. My company is big on having this kind of slide and pretty much a must when introducing yourself to a new group of people.

      Basically, you want to make sure you have your stuff together. I asked my new folks what they have thought of the onboarding process so far and I have been complemented on having all this stuff ready for them when they first started.

      1. Zephy*

        +1 to the detailed training plan!

        During my time at OldJob, my team lead and boss worked to put together a training “timeline”/checklist – basically a list of all of the major responsibilities of the role, broken down into individual tasks and divided up by how long it should take to master them. It got pretty granular, too. There was a list of tasks a new hire should be able to complete with minimal or no errors/supervision at the 10-day, 30-day, 60-day and 90-day marks (they had a 90-day probation period). It helped give everyone a clear idea of (1) where to even start training the new kid, and (2) what is a reasonable amount of time to spend training someone on a given aspect of the job. There were some parts that had one correct prescribed way to do them and did not involve any real skill (counting down the cash drawer, looking up and entering information into our database system, pulling and reconciling reports, etc), which should be mastered relatively quickly; and other parts that did require time and practice to develop necessary skills and confidence to work without supervision or assistance.

    4. JimmyJab*

      My work has hired several folks over the course of the pandemic while everyone is virtual. They assigned each new person a “mentor” (a bit of a misnomer for this role I think) to answer all the random questions you may ask your new colleagues in the office, like who has to approve vacation, is this coworker usually hard to get ahold of? etc. Some people have found it helpful.

      1. Windchime*

        My team does something similar, except that each team member has a role in teaching and mentoring the new employee on certain areas. One person teaches the time clock and ticket system, another familiarizes the new employee on the Sharepoint site, etc. Each current employee knows their area well, and it gives the new employee a chance to meet with each team member for a chat and some instruction on things they will need to know. There is a checklist that the manager gives to the new team member after general company orientation, and the new person is responsible for setting up 1/2 hour meetings with their new teammates, getting that part of the specific department orientation and checking off the list. It’s a great system and it gives the new person a chance to meet all of their new co-workers.

    5. Em*

      If there’s an existing team in place — set up a buddy system, so that there’s at least one name and face who is familiar.
      I’ve found that an active social chat (even if it’s just “good morning” and “good night” messages that people can stick a heart react on or a smiley face emoji) is useful, too. Make sure it’s a separate chat channel from actual work stuff, so that you don’t have signal to noise issues.
      I do onboarding of new employees, and I make a point of saying in our team chat “hey everyone, say hi to _____ and ______! They’ve just started training today.” For the new people, I make a point of having them shadow existing employees and also introducing them personally to people. So, I’ll open up a chat with Stacy and Bob and say “hey, Bob! This is Stacy, she’s going to be working the evening shift as of next week. Stacy, this is Bob — he’s a really great person to ask for help in the evenings when there are fewer team leads around.” Then I leave the chat, but it’s still there and easy to find in their chat history.

      1. Anonymous Koala*

        I second the buddy system, especially if you can pair them with someone who will do a lot of their training. And be sure to tell them how you prefer to be kept up to date on their work- do you want a weekly update email, a meeting, a trellis board?
        And I would encourage the rest of your team to schedule 1:1 calls or chats with the new hires in their first couple of weeks at the job

    6. Been There*

      Are there simple tasks they can do so they feel like they’ve accomplished something even in the first week?

    7. Middle Manager*

      Not terribly substantive, more encouraging, but I wish someone had told me it will take a bit for you to get comfortable and really know what you are doing as manager and that is completely normal. I spent the first year feeling like I was failing constantly. At least for me, managing former peers (two of whom applied for the promotion along side me) was the absolute hardest part. Now that it’s been a few years and those former peers are the minority of my staff, it’s gotten drastically easier.

    8. Elbereth Gilthoniel*

      I haven’t seen these suggestions in earlier comments, so I’ll add them in:
      1. For the first couple of weeks, have a daily check-in or check-out (so a quick beginning of the day or end of day meeting). It can even be for 15 minutes. It’s just time for the new person to ask questions that have come up that they may not feel comfortable bothering you about during the day. And you can make sure that they are settling into the role.
      2. Take the first five minutes of team meetings to be “social” time. It will help the new person to get to know their team mates better.
      3. Either set up meetings to introduce them to people they will work with often or need to know, or give them a list and have them set up their own introductory meetings.

      Hope this helps! Good luck with your new hires. I’ve found that the hardest part of onboarding someone remote is the time it takes – there’s no opportunity to run into them in the break room and have them ask a quick question, or just have them shadow you/ sit next to you as you do something. It takes a lot more time to schedule training meetings, and present your screen as you are working, etc. It just takes a bit more effort.

  19. Jshaden*

    Question on managing my own feelings in my job search. Background – I’m retiring from the US military after 20 years, so this is my first “real” job hunt/interview experience. I know it is perfectly normal to have positive interactions with multiple potential employers and letting them know you are withdrawing because you accepted a different offer shouldn’t be a big deal, but it definitely feels weird. I know I am lucky in that there are several potentials jobs I could be happy with, but I’m nearing my decision point and feel internally awkward having these positive “I’m potentially interested” conversations when I know I can only accept one job. How do folks internally manage what feels like a disconnect to me on this?

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      It’s a business decision, not a personal decision. It’s no different than looking at 5 different apartments or houses when you move. Saying you might be interested in renting unit 143 is just plain fact. You might be interested, you might not, it all depends on how a lot of other things work out.

    2. LTL*

      I used to really dislike it, but you get used to it. It’s not dishonesty to say “I’m interested in this job” if you’re truly interested. It’s just an expression of how you feel. You may be more interested in other jobs, but employers know that. No one expects you to only pursue one positive opportunity at a time.

    3. Mockingjay*

      Truly, businesses are used to it.

      There’s nothing awkward in having conversations – companies are gathering info about you to determine whether to give you an offer and you’re gathering data points for your decision to accept. Every other candidate out there is doing the same thing. If you decline, the company will offer to another candidate.

    4. Wandering*

      It’s not that different from interviewing multiple candidates when you have a single opening. It helps both parties determine whether this is a good fit. They will make the choice that they think is best, as should you. Your job is to find the next role that you want, and part of that process is interviewing to learn more about interesting opportunities.

      Good luck.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      Allow yourself to feel fortunate.

      Express that feeling of being fortunate to the employer(s) whose offers you are declining. “I have been most fortunate to receive a couple wonderful offers. Unfortunately, I have decided to go with another company. I am very grateful for your time and your consideration.”

  20. Justin*

    Quite a few updates, since I’ve made it part of my schedule to write about my return to office.

    1. RTO:

    It got pushed back a week! We had some technical snafus uploading vax proof but it has now been worked out. Unfortunately, we work in a larger office that’s “vax or test” but there are apparently security guards preventing anyone symptomatic from entering the floors. Between that and my mask, it could be worse. It does me no good to stress myself about it. I’ll be back at my desk next tues or weds. And will update accordingly.

    2. Some comments last week:

    I sure did get a few people wagging their fingers at me to be “nice” because it’s part of working in an office. I have no intentions of being cruel or ignoring someone who speaks to me. I am, however, going to set myself more explicit boundaries (and tell people to please let me know before popping over to my desk), and I’m done forcing myself to put on a neurotypical mask re: expected versions of eye contact (I can do it but it’s unnatural and I end up doing it for too long which makes everyone, myself included, feel weird) and so on. Basically, I am going to find a way to respect my authentic self.

    A broader point is that “nice” is subjective and usually upholds hierarchies if we’re all meant to behave the same way. If someone is denying the identity of me or someone I care about, I will be coolly polite to them but never “nice.” There are people in my office who are low-key racist and high-key classist. They will receive politeness not not niceness. Nice is the status quo.

    2: Evaluation

    So, to tie into all this, I’ve been comfortable seeing myself as neurodivergent and don’t really need much to feel good about my identity. But I know the office is a place where I need more codification to get the support I’ll need. So I’m starting the process of getting it official-official via my doctor and a referral. It’ll take a little while but by the time we return full-time sometime in the winter, either at this job or the next one, I’ll be able to ask for the small things I need to feel comfortable (just don’t pop up behind me or seat me facing the corridor, and be understanding of my tendency to stare into the middle distance). My therapist and I know this is true, and the DSM is harmful overall, but for legal reasons, gotta get it written down.

    3: Other stuff

    In the time since I was regularly writing in here… I finished an entire manuscript for an academic book I have a contract for (not that these sorts of books pay much, lol). Gave a lot of invited talks and have really advanced in prominence in my niche scholarship field. Off to begin my dissertation soon once I get through the IRB process. I’ve gotten a lot of work/writing done since I’ve been at home. It’s not easy with the small child, and also because writing about racism is… understandably personal. But I have something to be proud of.

  21. Roja*

    On starting a business–I work multiple jobs and had some extra space in my schedule this year, so I started a small (I think) personal assistant business a couple of weeks ago. I’ve been getting jobs, and I’m really enjoying it, so I think it’ll be a good fit. But I’m really overwhelmed and could use some advice on how to get into the swing of things. Here’s what I have so far:

    –a facebook business page
    –minimal advertising (fb ad running, community groups posts, etc)
    –google voice number and email set up and in use

    What I will need eventually and am not sure how to get:
    –a lowkey website (will probably go through wordpress)
    –some kind of scheduling software to keep track of appointments (advice greatly welcome here!)
    –help figuring out tax stuff and business stuff (insurance, etc)

    I didn’t want to pour a lot of time and money in until there were some clients but now that there are some I need to figure out the rest of the stuff. Where do I start? My boss owns the business I’m a 1099 contractor for and said it took $1500 to set up the business papers, and there’s no way I can justify that for a business this small right now. But I don’t want to leave myself legally liable either. Help?

    1. I'm just here for the cats!*

      Is there a small business association in your city? In my area there’s an association and you might be able to find help. I would also maybe look into some business classes. A local college has online classes for small businesses and I think it would cover some of those questions. Maybe try networking with other small businesses to see what they did and to get help. As for the tax stuff, get a tax person to help you.

      1. foolofgrace*

        This is good advice, and I’d just like to add that in my large metropolitan area, libraries sometimes have a day when people from a small business association come and talk to people for free. Usually I think it’s the Small Business Association or something like that. Ask you friendly neighborhood librarian some of your questions.

      2. Roja*

        This is brilliant! I hadn’t even thought of a small business association. We must have one; I live in a large city.

    2. Just a Fan of Hers*

      You could look up Marie Herman Enterprises – she does courses on working as a PA including all the business set up. I’m not sure when she plans to hold her next course, but I think she also does some one on one stuff or could point you in the right direction. She’s incredibly knowledgeable as she made the switch from admin to business owner herself, and she teaches lots of courses (very well!). I highly recommend her.

    3. Joielle*

      For scheduling software, I really like Calendly. There’s a free version if you want to just poke around and try it out. It lets you set your availability (with lots of options for customization) and then people can go in and book appointments when you’re free. And they can reschedule using a link so you don’t have to do it all by email.

    4. AndersonDarling*

      I found a wordpress developer on Fiverr and they made a simple website for $200. You should have all your text ready to go, and find an example website that they can model. If you are looking for a 3 page website (Business info, About Me, Contact page) then I can recommend going that route.

    5. OyHiOh*

      How much it costs varies state to state but if you have the ability to file documents yourself, it should be considerably cheaper than if you hire a lawyer to file for you.

      For example, in my state (Colorado), it costs under $100 for me to get the forms from the Secretary of State’s website and file a simple LLC. If I go to a local lawyer to file the same forms, it costs upwards of $500.

    6. AndersonDarling*

      You likely won’t need to file as a business until you get big. I took in contractor work and filed my extra income on “Schedule C.” I did all my taxes online and the tax software walked my through all of it. As long as you report your income, then you don’t need to worry about tax liability. AND you can write off your expenses with a Schedule C, so keep those receipts!

    7. RagingADHD*

      Call a local CPA to ask about business setup. It can vary literally by municipality. If I lived five miles to the left of my house, I’d have far more onerous requirements for a business license and taxes to do the same virtual freelance work that I do now as just…myself.

      Don’t take general internet advice about that side of things. It’s hyperlocal.

    8. MissBliss*

      If you do WordPress, you might look into whether there are free plugins that manage scheduling. You might also want to look into Squarespace. It’s more expensive, but if you go for a higher tier option, it can also handle your point of sale and scheduling. It’s also supposed to be user friendly (though I find it a little tricky, but I am used to actually coding websites, so the inflexibility is what trips me up). You can pay month-to-month as well, though annually is cheaper.

      Ask your 1099 boss about their accountant and if they’d recommend them. My husband just started a business and his friend was able to recommend an accountant. The guy is helpful and also advised my husband that it was unnecessary for him to pay someone like him (the accountant) to do the business filing, thereby saving my husband a few thousand. It’s nice to start a business relationship with someone who saves you money!

      As for insurance, shop around. Call multiple places.

      Best of luck! Remember, you don’t have to have everything all at once. I’d figure out the taxes and insurance before the website and scheduling.

      1. Art Sent Me*

        Be careful with free tools. As a personal assistant, you’ll be in confidence with potentially sensitive information. Keeping it in less secure services that are built for data mining could be a liability if they get hacked.

    9. Hola Playa*

      Talk to an accountant, for sure. And check out your secretary of state website to see if you can file an LLC yourself.

      You can keep the books either in a spreadsheet for now or there are some low-cost online accounting subscriptions that are simple and straightforward enough. Keep all your reciepts. Consider a FEIN.

      Open a separate bank account for the PA biz to avoid co-mingling personal and biz.

      Consider liability insurance. Hiscox has historically had great rates for small businesses, though there may be niche policies out there.

      Find a great biz support group. Plenty online. Having awesome, supportive folks who know what you’re going though as a biz owner is everything.

      I vote for Squarespace if you’re doing your own website and Calendly.

      So excited for you! This is a much-needed service.

    10. Roja*

      Thanks, you all! This is super helpful advice and gives me a better idea of where to start. I really would rather not be running a business at all but it’s the only thing that really works with my wacky artist schedule right now… and I’m pregnant too so it’s just a cluster of overwhelm. I appreciate the words of wisdom very much!

  22. GotaPenny*

    Office Coffee Etiquette: I work in a profession where I interact with a lot of people throughout the day. I’ve encountered something that I am unsure how to navigate. I find that as a social/professional “thank you” is to offer coffee. People will say “Oh, thank you very much! Next time I come in I’ll bring you a Starbucks.” Or just a simple “I owe you a coffee… do you like Starbucks?”
    Here’s my question… I do like Starbucks. I do like coffee. But I only like what I like to drink. I like mochas with no whipped cream. but if I say that, I feel weird. Like they were gracious to offer and now I am going to add stipulations to it. I have had people just bring me in random generic coffee. Like I has someone bring me an iced vanilla coffee. It was okay. I drank it to be polite.
    Does anyone else run into this? How do you navigate it?

    1. Pascall*

      I think it’s totally fine to specify that you only drink a certain type of coffee! When someone asks, you can always tell them “I very much like mochas with no whipped cream, but if that’s too much, then _____ is fine!” The blank can be replaced by something else you might enjoy that’s easier to pick up like a small candy bar, or other type of sweets or snacks.

      I don’t drink coffee at all, so I tell people that I love Dr. Pepper. In my office, people usually thank me with Dr. Pepper and plain M&M since I’m allergic to peanuts haha. Definitely don’t be afraid to share your preferences!

      1. DarthVelma*

        This. When someone wants to do something nice for you, they generally want you to actually enjoy that thing.

        Like I don’t do coffee. When people have offered Starbucks, I’m just really straight-forward. I don’t drink coffee, but I like their hot chocolate and I LURVE their hot apple cider with caramel sauce in it. Bring me apple cider and I consider you covered for all work related requests for the next 6 months. :-)

        1. ThatGirl*

          Random fact: the Starbucks caramel apple cider is actually cinnamon dolce syrup + steamed apple juice, plus the whipped cream & caramel on top. There’s no other caramel in it unless you ask for it.

        2. Cold Fish*

          I don’t drink coffee and had no idea Starbucks offered a hot apple cider. I’m gonna have to remember that as it’s getting colder! Thanks

          1. Windchime*

            Its really sweet and really good. I have a coworker whose religion doesn’t allow him to consume caffeine, so the hot apple cider is his drink of choice and we used to make an annual trip down to Starbucks to get it during the fall. So good.

    2. RainbowTribble*

      I think you could potentially make it a joke. “Oh, that’d be great. I have to warn you though I’m super weird about what I drink – I only drink mochas!” Focusing on it as a funny quirk instead of making it a demand. (I understand though – I only like sweet sweet hot caramel drinks)

      1. Mints*

        I would go with something like this too. “That’s so nice of you! I am a toddler, though, and only like one drink: cinnamon dolce latte.”

    3. UKDancer*

      I think as long as it’s not a really complicated order it’s fine to say what you prefer if someone asks if they can get you a coffee. Personally if I’m getting someone a thank you coffee I want to get what they like. Mocha without whipped cream is not a complicated request. So I think.it’s fine to ask.

    4. cubone*

      I know this is not helpful at all, but honestly that’s one of the things that pushed me into black coffee, lol. I had so many times were I was too awkward or nervous as a little baby employee to ask for a complicated latte, or where the milk/sugar was, and after a couple times of drinking a black coffee out of desperation, I suddenly developed a taste for it.

      A side effect is this really funny/bizarre thing that if you drink black coffee, people will COMPLIMENT you on it. The number of times I’ve said “just black, thanks!” and a colleague goes “ooooo good for you!” or “wow!” is hilariously strange. And possibly infantilizing, because I think some of it is about my age, though I’m not 100% sure. Anyways, now I am also addicted to the compliments, in addition to the coffee.

      1. All the words*

        Drinking black coffee gives one coffee connoisseur cred!

        Adding flavored syrup, whipped cream, spices, chocolate, etc. removes it. Sorry lovers of super fancy coffee drinks, that’s just how it is. ;)

      2. Not So NewReader*

        I drink my coffee black no sugar for similar reasons. It’s just easier. Not every place has non-dairy milk, nor do they have stevia or similar. Black no sugar is it.

        I did have to train my brain to enjoy it. So sometimes I had non-dairy milk and sometimes not. Then finally, I just had it black all the time.

        I don’t want people knocking themselves out to get a coffee for me. Conversely I know people who are so fussy they just need to make their own coffee, period.

      3. Joielle*

        Ha, same. When I was in law school and a baby lawyer I consumed a LOT of caffeine but what was readily available was usually just regular old coffee. And maybe like… powdered creamer or something, which, ew. So I just went with it, and now I can’t drink it any other way. Once in a while I’ll order a mocha or even just have a bit of flavored creamer, thinking it sound like a nice treat, and it turns out I just don’t like sweet coffee anymore!

        1. The cat's pajamas*

          I would drink black coffee but my tummy does not agree with it. I could get away with iced black coffee occasionally when I was younger since it waters it down a little if you don’t drink it right away. I need milk or cream to cut the acidity. I was at least able to wean myself off requiring sugar. I still like it occasionally as a treat or for coffee as dessert times.

          I’m impressed with the iron stomachs of black coffee drinkers, and anyone who drinks dark roast or Starbucks, I can’t handle either of those even with dairy added.

    5. Rusty Shackelford*

      It’s not weird to say “Oh, that’s sweet of you. But I’m kind of picky about my coffee – like, there’s only one thing I like at Starbucks. So don’t worry about it.” Either they’ll ask what you like, or they’ll drop it.

    6. BRR*

      If you can stomach it with the whipped cream what about “Oh that’s so kind. I can always go for a mocha/ a mocha is always a nice treat during the work day.” To me, that’s easy enough for someone to remember and is not complicated in the least.

      1. GotaPenny*

        That’s the funny thing… I can’t. Esp when it’s hot. The cream melts into it and it’s disgusting. At least when they’re cold I can scoop it off. I guess it just makes me feel weird since I’m such a picky eater/drinker.

        1. cubone*

          Honestly, if I offered a coffee and someone said “thanks! mocha, no whip” I would not second glance at it at all. So many people are lactose intolerant, avoid dairy, think of whipped cream as a child’s thing (wrong, obviously), etc. that I really don’t think it would strike as bizarre. It would be more unusual if someone said “mocha, but it MUST HAVE WHIPPED CREAM OR I WILL NOT DRINK IT”. I’d be hella impressed lol, but more unlikely for sure.

          1. Windchime*

            This was my thought, too. “Grande mocha, no whip!” said with a laugh will convey your preference just fine and I wouldn’t think a thing about it. If someone is offering to get you a coffee, they would want it to be something you like.

        2. KittyCardigans*

          I think you could say “a plain mocha” and that might get the same information across without coming across as picky? People might occasionally screw it up, but I bet they’d mostly get it right.

    7. RagingADHD*

      You can:

      1) Say, “Thanks, don’t worry about it, I’m not a big coffee drinker.”

      2) Say, “Thanks,” and when they show up with something you don’t like, hold onto it until they’re gone (or leave it somewhere) and throw it out after they go.

      If the same person makes a habit of it, you can tell them your preference. But you don’t have to ear or drink things you don’t like just to be polite.

    8. Possible Interpretation*

      You respond in a self-deprecating way while revealing your preference. Communicating it as a character flaw removes any ability for the other person to view it in a negative way.

      “I’ll have to bring you a starbucks!”
      “Oh, you don’t have to do that; my order would be 20 miles long anyway and not worth the trouble!”
      or
      “You know what, I’ll hold you to that. What do you normally get? I’m kinda picky myself.”

  23. Emi*

    I have an acquaintance whose boss has marked them AWOL, meaning they don’t get paid, for a day that they were actually doing work but not logged into email the whole time. Basically the boss is saying that being offline during regular hours without advance approval constitutes being “absent” from work. This feels illegal to me. They did actually complete work, so they ought to get paid, right? Has anyone else run into something like this? Acquaintance is FLSA exempt and works for the federal government.

    1. J.B.*

      If it’s federal there should be policies governing everything. I think that unless the requirement to be logged into email was communicated in writing he would have plenty of strength for a challenge.

        1. J.B.*

          There’s a difference between being written up (which in state government and a process you could contest) and losing pay. The bar for losing pay should be higher and established in an actual policy.

    2. Moira Rose*

      Federal government? This is not legal. Now, your friend might have been considered AWOL initially for security reasons, which is a whole ‘nother ball of wax, and they need to work that out. But in terms of their timesheet, the boss is committing timesheet fraud, one of the only ways you can get fired as a fed. Kick that ish up the chain.

    3. BRR*

      It is illegal. Your acquaintance needs to be paid for any day they work. Work is more than email (although sometimes it feels like that is debatable haha). Is there anything else that shows they worked that day?

    4. Person from the Resume*

      That’s probably not legal, but it’s not good. Are they normally WFH/virtual or is part of it they couldn’t be found in the office as expected truly absent? Even for someone working from home, it could still appear that they were absent if they worked offline all day long and never signed in and was not in contact with anyone in the office.

      Part of my job requirements is to be online – both email and Teams (reachable by IMs) – when I am on duty. I have to put an OOO email message if I am out for appointments that aren’t a full day (which I think is overkill for email because I do not guarantee an email response within a couple of hours, but OK for IM since I am expected to be available through IM throughout the duty day).

      Frankly, though, it sounds like your friend should be paid for working that day as part of their last paycheck because if your boss thinks you were AWOL for a day even after you explain yourself you are probably going to be fired soon.

    5. Kathenus*

      It’s illegal to not pay them for time worked. But they could impose discipline or consequences for being offline during regular hours.

    6. Teapot Repair Technician*

      That’s outrageous.

      Nonetheless, when I WFH, I make a point of staying logged in and moving my mouse every few minutes to keep my light green just so the “are you there?” question doesn’t come up.

  24. fantomina*

    Question for fellow ace/aros: how did you handle coming out at work?
    Context: I feel like all of the coming out stories I’ve heard are focused on an action– dating someone/people of a particular gender, going to a gay bar, etc. Because my identity is founded on a sexuality that doesn’t involve other people and on a lack of relationships, it really feels like it’s about a lack of action for me. I don’t see the usual easy openings like coming out by naming/gendering your partner. And the last thing I want in my new job is for someone to inevitably ask why I’m single, when I inevitably stutter “because why wouldn’t I be?” uncomfortably and then everyone is both confused AND awkward.

    1. Pascall*

      I feel like it’s not super necessary to come out as ace/aro (and that’s from a fellow ace!). The only time I would mention it is if someone asked me why I’m not dating someone, then I could just say “Oh, I don’t really date!” and lead into the aromantic aspect if the conversation leaned that way.

      But I feel like that’s too many details to share at work LOL, so I would never really mention it, honestly. Though aromanticism is probably more likely to come up than being asexual.

      But for reference, people really shouldn’t be pressing you as to why you are/aren’t seeing someone/dating/etc. That’s kind of boundary crossing and, really, it’s none of their business, particularly in a work setting.

      2. Gipsy Danger*

        This is how I handle it. I am a 42 year old single, childless woman, and occasionally it does come up, and I just say “Oh, I’m asexual,” in a very matter-of-fact way.

        I did come out to friends an family, but didn’t feel the need to do something that formal at work.

    2. ThatGirl*

      I’m neither aro nor ace, but I would still find someone asking me why I was single to be very rude. Some people are just single!

      That said, if you want people to know, maybe be a little more visible about it? Put a flag up at your desk or wear a small pin or just get used to saying it out loud?m

      1. fantomina*

        I’m in the queer affinity group here, so I think most people know that I’m not straight. It’s probably in my head, but I feel like people want to know which queer box I fit into but would never ask, because that’s obviously an overstep. And part of me wants them to know, because ace/aro invisibility sucks and I’d love to do my part in changing that, but I don’t know how to be visibly ace/aro without being weirdly forward about it, I guess?

        1. ThatGirl*

          I understand, I’m bi and in our lgbtq ERG but married to a man so I feel a little invisible sometimes. Within the group it should be no big deal to talk about it? But otherwise if it comes up, don’t be afraid to mention it?

          I still think people asking why anyone is single is rude though.

        2. quill*

          Oh yeah, I get that. My excuse, having been terminally online before most people knew being ace was a thing, is that if I ever get asked why i’m in a queer group I’m the cake catering service.

        3. Cleo*

          It may be more important to you than everyone else, but if it’s important to you to be more visible, it’s worth it. At least in my experience, which I think is similar, even though we have different identities. I’m a queer / bi woman married to a man. I’ve mostly just leaned into the awkwardness and found that it’s slowly gotten less awkward as I get more experience. (And also as I accumulate more pride pins.)

          I’m personally more comfortable mentioning my identity as part of what I’m saying – ie “As a bi woman, something something…” rather than “I am a bi woman.”

      2. twocents*

        This. I’m perpetually single (because dating is a pita, not because of my sexuality) and no one has ever questioned it at work. People just ask how my dog’s doing instead.

    3. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      I was actually just telling my bestie that the notion of “coming out” as ace specifically drives me bonkers, because other parts of the QUILTBAG are relevant outside of sex, but ace is literally “let me tell you about my sex drive.” (Disclaimer: I am entirely ace and almost entirely aro.) So to me, the very idea of telling my coworkers ANYTHING about my sex drive at all gives me the absolute vapors. As far as I am concerned, EVERYBODY at work is ace and any further discussion about it is completely inappropriate. *shrug* (And this is specific to asexuality – you can be in relationships with whoever you want, regardless of gender, sexual identity, race, creed, whatever, and I won’t bat an eyelash as long as everybody is consenting and of legal age, but I do not want to hear a single HINT about what you do or don’t do in bed, regardless of your relationship structure or lack thereof.)

      2. WellRed*

        Thx for this well written response. I’m not interested in what anyone does or does not do sex wise, especially coworkers. I’m also sorry for anyone who gets nagged for being single. Small town by any chance?

        1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

          Unfortunately, it sounds like your awkward questions (why are you single (SERIOUSLY? People, come ON)) are more related to the aro part, which isn’t inappropriate to discuss at work IF you wanted to. I haven’t ever actually had to have that discussion at work – I’m married to a dude, which is a whole separate thing that is weird and works for us despite my ace/aro-ness, and nobody asked me why I was single beforehand, but I’m also SUPER good at setting boundaries about things I don’t intend to discuss.

          For me, the big one is that when people find out I changed my first name in my early 20s, they really like to ask why and what it used to be. My out-loud response is always “Oh, we don’t talk about that. How about that [quick subject change here]?” And there have been exactly two times in my life where someone pushed it after that, and my literal response both times was “We still don’t talk about that. How about that quick and obvious subject change?” And neither of them pushed it after that, but my third round response that I have practiced in case it does ever happen (because I read way too much AAM/Captain Awkward to assume that it won’t ever happen) is “How have you not gotten the hint yet that I don’t want to talk about it?”

          1. Rose*

            Very much agreed with your point about boundary-setting. I think that’s really key. People at work do not have a right to that kind of personal information about you, and there are ways to gently redirect things if they go in a direction you don’t feel comfortable with. We all have a right to do that, and I think that’s important to remember.

            1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

              Also, one more tip: if you don’t want to get into it for whatever reason, the swift subject change is a good one, and a generally-safe ambiguous pivot can go something like this:

              Nosey McGee: “So, Fan (because of course Nosey McGee will also shorten your name uninvited), why are you still single?”
              You: “Oh, I’m good, thanks! Did you get that last set of TPS reports completed, or are we still waiting on something?”

    4. aroace*

      Aroace here and I’m with others that it’s really nobody’s business and don’t ever plan on “coming out” at work.

      Luckily my co-workers aren’t really nosey about why I’m single but in the past I’ve just said, “I prefer being single,” or as Pascall suggested, “I don’t really date.”

      I also work for a small, conservative company that I don’t think would be cool with other LGBTQIA identities and I feel like coming out would just lead to me explaining over and over what it actually means and constantly trying to justify myself and I just don’t have any interest in doing that.

    5. Caboose*

      I think my favorite wording for this is (stolen from a podcast), “Oh, I don’t really do that,” in the same casual tone of voice that you might use if someone asked you if you enjoyed skydiving or any other recreational activity that you just..don’t do. Will people speculate? Sure, but I’ve found that people do that anyway when you come out as ace.

      I also picked up a black ring– I don’t know if people still *do* the ace ring thing, or how widely recognized it is (certainly no straight coworkers seem to be aware of it), but it makes me feel more confident and comfortable overall! (For anyone who doesn’t know, wearing a black ring on the middle finger was proposed as an ace Thing several years back. Mine is tungsten, because most black rings are just plated or chemically treated, and I didn’t want to worry about the metal tarnishing or making my finger turn funny colors.)

    6. quill*

      Well, once in the lab I blurted it out because the nosy nellie on the next bench was going on and on about everyone’s dating life and asked me.

      Other than that, I sort of haven’t? Like. It has never come up beyond “got plans with your parents? friends? partner?”

      Anybody who doesn’t respect a cheerful “nope!” when asking if you’ve got a partner / a date / an OK cupid account is being unprofessional.

      2. fantomina*

        the worst for me was a Big Get type who I was trying to get for work who, after telling me about how thankful he was to have his wife and toddler during COVID lockdown and said something like “what about you?” I can’t remember if he implicitly or explicitly referred to having a partner or kids, but I do remember that it was the most awkward moment of my work life ever.

    7. Esmae*

      Honestly, if people ask why I’m single I just say I’m happier that way right now and leave it at that. Eventually they figure it out, or they don’t. I’ve gotten very comfortable being partnerless without an explanation.

      1. fantomina*

        Maybe I’m just a magnet for nosiness or something! “I’m happier that way right now” tends to be followed by “oh, you’ll find that special someone” in my experiences.

        1. quill*

          It’s also possible that being, I presume, female and under 30 is contributing to this. People no longer ask me certiain things now that I don’t look 24.

          1. Rose*

            Hard same. I’m in my mid-30s now and I think it’s a combination of my own personal confidence about it, the fact that people just condescend more to certain age groups, generally, and the fact that I’m around other 30-somethings (and older) and they just don’t tend to ask those questions as much. It could also be the environment I work in (university). Whatever the reason, I’m thankful for it (even though I feel like I’m much more ready to handle questions like that now than when I was in my early-mid-20s).

        2. allathian*

          Yeah, that’s possible. But I don’t think most people mean anything by that, necessarily. After all, most partnered people have been single at some point, and I suspect that those who say such things have always taken it for granted that most single people would prefer to be partnered, and more or less grudgingly grant that it’s better to be single than to be in a relationship with the wrong person. They don’t see being single as an active, positive choice for you, or see ace/aro as real sexual orientations, and it’s up to you if you want to shrug it off, or to come out to them, and attempt to educate them on this issue.

          I’m so sorry this is happening to you.

          I’m a fairly private person at work, and I want to extend others the same courtesy. So I never ask new coworkers about their family. I’m comfortable talking about mine, so I might bring it up at some point, and if I do, people usually reciprocate. If they change the subject, I know that family is something they aren’t comfortable talking about and leave it at that. If they say they’re single, I’ll take it at face value. If we become actual work friends, and they bring it up, I might ask if they’re single by choice or looking for someone, but only if we’re close enough for that sort of talk. And I never, ever say I’m sorry to hear that someone’s single, unless they make it obvious that they’d rather not be single. So far, though, that has never happened at work, only in my social life.

    8. Rose*

      I get this. I’m ace/aro and, while I understand everyone’s points about not discussing it at work, part of me kind of resents the idea that this part of me has to be more private/hidden than other people’s. Like yes, it’s kind of defined by a lack/absence, but it’s also a part of my life that means something to me. So what I end up doing is usually something like: if I’m genuinely comfortable with the people, around coming out day or pride month I might wear a couple of pins or have pamphlets on my desk or something like that. OTOH, if someone were to ask me why I’m single or otherwise pry into my personal life and I’m not particularly comfortable with them (or even if I am and just don’t think that question is appropriate, which I generally don’t), I’m not going to give them any real information. For ‘why are you single?’ I would just say ‘why not?’ If someone asked me flat out if I preferred not being single or if I was looking (which again, I don’t think is at all appropriate at work) I’d say ‘does it matter?’ Basically I only share about the ace/aro stuff on my own terms, not in response to questions about my dating status.

      1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

        it’s also a part of my life that means something to me

        I think this is the part of the whole ace-coming-out-thing I can’t quite wrap my head around. Not necessarily asking you for clarification or anything, and definitely not trying to start an argument, I just don’t get it – I don’t have sex, just like I don’t eat sushi, drink coffee, or lift weights. All of these things are things that a lot of people have a significant interest in, but to me, the fact that I don’t sex isn’t any more significant to me, my life, my existence than the fact that I don’t go skydiving. It literally doesn’t matter. It’s been an issue in past relationships (before I figured out the aro thing), but only in the sense that it was an insurmountable incompatibility, just like the fact that my ex was raised to believe that Lastname Men Don’t Do Housework was an insurmountable incompatibility. I didn’t feel that mine needed “fixing” and he didn’t feel that his needed “fixing,” so we concluded that we were clearly incompatible and went our separate ways.

        1. Rose*

          I mean, I suppose the easy answer is that people are different and have different experiences and feel differently about these things. Growing up I felt like I was lacking or missing something in a way I couldn’t name. I genuinely felt like there was something wrong with me, that I couldn’t seem to form the relationships I was supposed to (the relationships a big part of me genuinely wanted to have). When I realized I was ace (and then aro), that was a big relief and change in my thinking. It isn’t that way for everyone, but I also know I’m not alone in that thinking. I suppose if I were surrounded growing up by people who told me one day I’d learn to appreciate skydiving, or want to do it myself, and that skydiving was something EVERYONE did, and that it was the most natural and ‘human’ thing in the world, and me not wanting to do that was flat out impossible, I might feel more strongly about something like skydiving, too. A lot of it depends on context.

          1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

            Oh, no, for sure, it’s hardly the first time that something that made perfect sense to a whole lot of other people didn’t click in my head :) I mostly was just thinking out loud about my own viewpoint, and it was you explicitly identifying it as a thing that was important to you that kinda kicked off the train of thought. Like I said, definitely not trying to pick an argument or demand an explanation. :)

            1. Rose*

              Totally get it – and it’s always good to hear other people’s different experiences I think, so I’m really grateful that you shared yours. I will say I definitely wouldn’t share anything about my personal sex life with anyone at work – I see the fact of me being ace/aro as not actually signifying anything specific about my personal behavior, whether others interpret it that way or not.

              1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

                Your comment about “surrounded growing up by people who …” I think is also significant — I wasn’t. Nobody talked about sex around me when I was growing up, I didn’t get the “birds and the bees” talks from my parents, my grandma who was a children’s librarian brought home an assortment of books and I figured it out from there. (I think my folks assumed that if I had questions I couldn’t answer from books that I would ask those, but I don’t think I ever did?) So I think in general, sex has pretty much been a non-thing all my life, and it stands to reason that non-sex would continue to be a non-thing :)

                I did read a totally absurd number of bodice-ripper books when I was a kid and they were totally age-inappropriate, mostly because I ran out of other books in the house [username is accurate] and my mom gave up on trying to keep me out of her books – but they already seemed wildly unrealistic, so mostly I skipped the sex scenes to focus on the rest of the story anyway :)

                1. allathian*

                  I’m glad that there are ace/aro activists in committed relationships who are open about it and happy to say that a sexless marriage/relationship works for them, but at the same time, coming out as ace/aro when you’re married is also involving other people in your marriage in a way that I think is inappropriate at work. I don’t want to know how often my coworkers have sex with their spouses/partners, and that includes never.

                  This is tough, and as you can see, I can’t quite decide how I feel about it. I’m happy if people I don’t know in person are out about their ace/aro relationship, but if I knew that about a coworker, it’d feel like TMI. Am I making any sense?

          2. fantomina*

            Rose, when you say “I genuinely felt like there was something wrong with me, that I couldn’t seem to form the relationships I was supposed to,” that’s I think the heart of my question here; I grew up socialized to think that I was broken, and that partnered is the assumed default irritates to infuriates me, depending on the day. So part of me really wants everyone to know, so that the assumption gets corrected, but on the other hand, I don’t want to broadcast details of my sexuality either. And I worry that if I just say I’m aro, then people make assumptions that I’m a “casual sex” person, thrusting me into the territory of another common assumption that ALSO broadcasts something incorrect about my sexuality. It feels like a Catch-22.

            1. Rose*

              I totally get it; this is actually why I would answer ‘why are you single’ questions with ‘why not?’ or something similar. If anyone were to ask me something like that – which no one has, and I am so sorry if anyone has to you – my goal would be to kind of (gently) throw their assumptions back in their face a little? Not in a rude way, but just like to try to get across ‘why does that matter? why do you assume one option is better than the other?’ Because the crux of it, like you say, is that there IS an assumed default – that if you’re not partnered you WANT to be. That that is the goal, if not now than somewhere down the line. It’s like if someone were to say ‘why don’t you have kids yet? But you want some, right?’ I get that usually it’s an attempt at small talk, but it’s based heavily on assumptions that can make people feel their difference more acutely, in a negative way. At my last job I literally just got pamphlets on asexuality and aromanticism from the student LGBTQ+ group and put them on my desk. The people who I cared about knowing, who I talked with often, figured it out quickly enough through subsequent conversations (but they were also at least marginally familiar with those terms to begin with, and I knew they would be respectful).

              1. Rose*

                I should also say- my situation is probably unique as I worked at a university and could have plausibly had those pamphlets on my desk for another reason. If I were in a regular office it would be trickier, and would really depend on how much I trusted the people I worked with to actually know that. But my reaction to invasive questions would likely be the same.

            2. Farm Girl*

              I don’t want to get into this at work, just my take on it. I understand if others feel differently.
              If someone asked me if I were partnered, my answer is Oh, no – said in a tone of mock horror. Humor helps move it on.

          3. Fact & Fiction*

            This comment resonated with me a lot. So last year I realized I was bi/pan (I tend to say bi but I wouldn’t exclude nonbinary folks) and came out to my husband and online friends, but I don’t feel safe coming out to anyone else. Then this year I realized I was also poly and when I told my husband that, he came out to me as asexual, which explained SO MANY issues in our marriage. We’re deeply in love and best friends, but…There was definitely a disconnect. And there I was terrified he’d want a divorce if I revealed my authentic self and he was terrified _I_ would want a divorce if he revealed his authentic self.

            But my biggest concern was assuring him that I love him and accept him exactly as he is and that he’s PERFECT as he is and not lacking or missing anything. And his biggest concern was assuring me that he loves me and accepts me exactly as I am. In fact, he was actually relieved by my revelation because it alleviated a lot of pressure he’d been feeling/putting on himself. And we’re definitely NOT getting a divorce.

            As far as I know, he doesn’t plan to come out at work as ace, but him just being able to be his true self with me has been freeing. And ditto for me being my true self with him.

            1. fantomina*

              that seems so ideal for you all! I’m glad you were able to tell each other and now can live your lives together as you both prefer!

      2. Cleo*

        I’m a bi woman married to a straight man and that’s pretty much exactly how I handle being out at work for the same reasons. I don’t like people assuming I’m straight so I wear a pride pin on my coat and I have a photo of me with my bi-pride meetup and a giant bi-pride flag included in a little plaque with several photos from my life. Most people don’t pick up on it but it’s been a nice way to find other LGBTQ+ folx.

    9. Aquawoman*

      I think saying “why wouldn’t I be” is actually an excellent returning awkward to sender response. But if you don’t want to say that, just come up with an all-purpose answer, like, “Because that’s how I like it/that’s how I roll.”

    10. Not So NewReader*

      I am single by choice.
      I don’t think that anyone at work, or for that matter anywhere else should be asking anyone why they are single.
      There’s no reason to ask that question. If a person wants me to know they will just tell me on their own. Otherwise it’s not my business.

      How about throwing discomfort back to the sender: “Wow. That’s kind of personal, don’t ya think?”

      Or if you can pull it off, put on a smart a$$ grin and say, “Because I am not partnered up.” (Many people will not be able to figure out that is a non-answer.)

      Or how about: “Life is so mysterious isn’t it? For example, why are you partnered?”
      [Okay, maybe not say that. I am ticked on your behalf.]

      I will say this, I don’t get asked a lot about my singledom. One friend said, “You have said you are not interested in dating. You don’t date. And you seem content with how life is going for you. Your walk and talk match up and people respect that.” Don’t underestimate the power of going about life in a contented manner.

    11. Cleo*

      Not ace/aro but I feel like my experience is a little similar. I’m a bi woman married (for 20 years) to a straight man – so of course everyone assumes I’m straight unless I say something. I’ve also struggled with how to casually come out and even if I should come out. And sometimes when I’m in LGBTQ+ community I feel awkward about blurting out that I am queer and married to a man (this has gotten easier with time – now I mostly just lean into the awkwardness).

      After I got married, I kind of stopped coming out to people – I’m private and it didn’t feel like anyone’s business who I’d dated or attempted to date. And then, after maybe 10 years of marriage, I realized that *everyone* in my life (even people that I’d come out to earlier) assumed that I’m straight and I started to feel really uncomfortable. So I decided that I needed to be at least low key out in my public life.

      I handle coming out / being out at work in two ways – displaying and wearing (low key) pride paraphernalia and during small talk, mentioning that queer things I do (volunteering with Out in Tech, bi meet up events, reading a book for my queer book group, etc).

      Back when I had a desk in an office, I had a little plaque with an assortment of photos and I deliberately included one of me with my bi-pride meetup and a giant bi-pride flag. And I almost always wear a couple pride pins on my coat or purse. One rainbow and one bi pride. When I start a new job I try to remember to wear a rainbow pin to my first couple meetings.

      Most people don’t pick up on the pride pins and photos but it makes me feel better / less invisible and it’s a nice way to connect with other LGBTQ+ folx. Most people, even LGBTQ+ people, don’t recognize the bi pride flag (or the ace or aro flags) but other queer folx will see the rainbow pin and will sometimes ask about my bi pin. And it is a fantastic way to find other bi folx.

      1. Grayce*

        I’m gray ace and not ready to come out. For now, I’m just the buzzkill that shuts down all the sexual humor at work to keep it from being normalized. It’s not ok anyway, but now I know why it bothers me on another level.

        1. fantomina*

          yeah, I’ve thought a lot about whether I’d fall more into the category of ace or grayce, and with the latter it seems even harder for me to talk about except with my absolutely best, most queer theory/community aware friend, because otherwise it feels even more focused on the specifics of my sex life?

    12. Nightengale*

      I don’t usually but I sorta did recently. It’s gotten better as I’ve gotten older (now 45) and people have stopped pestering me about why I don’t date. For a good while, my answer was that I “was an Old Maid Schoolteacher and now am an Old Maid Pediatrician.” Usually then that devolved into people telling me not to call myself Old or an Old Maid. . . I had an actual fight in medical school with a doctor giving us a lecture on caring for patients who are GLB where he said that it was normal to be gay or lesbian but that a kid of 12 who has never thought about sex is abnormal. After the lecture I pointed out that I was then 28 and still wasn’t interested and he said he didn’t believe me, and when I got upset at being told I was lying about my, you know, life, suggested I seek counseling.

      Amusingly though many places I have worked, I have turned into the department expert on gender and sexuality,. I think being asexual makes it sometimes easier to talk to teens about sex and sexuality because I don’t bring as much personal stuff into it? And I’m cis but have a lot of trans friends, probably because I am autistic and have a lot of also autistic friends and autistic people are more likely to be LGBTQIA+. So I end up giving presentations on gender and sexuality and I always explicitly mention asexuality, which otherwise no one ever does. I sometimes wonder if my just doing that is in fact outing myself to the rest of my department.

      But recently our office was going to have a training on caring for patients who are trans/non-binary. The training was mandatory across our whole health system but I was talking it up in our little office because we specialize in autistic kids and so it’s extra relevant in ways people might not expect. So I offered to bring in rainbow cookies for the training and one of our nursing staff said something like “This is interesting for me because I’m one of those other letters, the L” so I said, “So am I, the A.” Then she asked what the A stood for and I told her. And then someone else came in and we changed the subject.

  25. LTL*

    I’m starting a new job on Monday and I’m so anxious! I’ve been feeling like I’m not smart enough to be on the team. Imposter syndrome is really getting along with my anxiety haha.

    1. cubone*

      think of it this way: they wouldn’t have hired you if they didn’t believe you were capable! You’ve already proven you’re smart enough. :)

    2. fantomina*

      I feel that in a major way. My best advice is 1) keep reminding yourself that they hired you for a reason and 2) remind yourself of the reason by keeping and referring to a folder of praise. Any email where someone says you’re the best, or why they like working with you, etc.– put it in the folder. If you already have that folder, today’s a good day to refer to it. If you don’t, putting it together will force you to read through all of those nice emails! :) Also, it helps me to remember that everyone (except narcissists, maybe?) is super anxious about a new job, so my anxiety is normal and expected.

      Best of luck!

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Let that humbleness work for you. Take good notes. Ask thoughtful questions. Accept offers of help. Show appreciation. Keep yourself organized and on top of what you need to do.
      Anxiousness is a bunch of extra energy- so channel that energy into building a nice job for yourself.

      I always say the first day is the worst. It’s so humbling to ask where the bathrooms are and to try to find the fridge. Push through the first day and know that on Tuesday, you will know where the bathroom is and where the fridge is. And Wednesday will be better than Tuesday and so on.

      Come back next weekend and tell us how it went.

  26. RainbowTribble*

    Question on timing medical leave when starting a new job.

    Context: I’m applying for an internal position at my company that I have a decent chance of getting. The hiring manager already knows me and my work. I have a medical condition that is getting worse and will probably require switching medication. Due to my unique situation, this would likely mean that during that switch I would be unable to work, at minimum unable to work in office. This condition impacts my job but I’m currently trying to work through until a better time to make the medication switch.

    My question: How long into the new job (if I get it) should I wait before I take this leave?

      1. RainbowTribble*

        I don’t know yet. I’m on a drug that will need to be weaned off slowly and I don’t know if I can start the one while the other is being taken off. I need it to work, to drive, basically do my life. A few weeks would be my hope.

    2. OtterB*

      I think this is something you’d have to discuss with the hiring manager when you are offered the position. To me, it would depend on how long you would need to be out, if there are fixed-schedule things in the new job (a major meeting or a required training course), and how much impact it has on you to wait. Everything else being equal, in between positions might be good.

    3. BRR*

      I think because it’s an internal position where the hiring manager knows you and your work, it’s not as big of a deal as if you were starting a new job (and obviously it shouldn’t make a difference at all but the reality is people are unreasonable). So take the leave whenever you need to take the leave. Don’t worry about trying to hold out X months.

    4. Holly Dolly*

      I work at a large Corp that had a great leave policy for any short or long term disability. Since I work in that department, I see how long people are tenured. We have very new people that go out on leave for months. It’s normal in our culture.

      You have been with that company for some time and have earned the right to use your leave. Your health is important. Also, it’s up to you how much info you share with your manager. Take the leave. Don’t feel bad! I hope you get it all under control and good luck!

  27. JustAnotherGusto*

    Question: Can someone explain to me what “compliance” work is, and who might be a good candidate for compliance work? I’ve seen tidbits here and there that make it seem like it might be a good fit for me, but don’t know enough about it to draw that conclusion. Thanks!

    1. Pascall*

      It depends on the industry. Compliance can mean a number of things – compliance with internal policies, or compliance with governing laws surrounding the company, etc. It’s mostly making sure that the company and its employees are complying with some set of rules – either internal or external, including legal compliance. From my understanding, anyway.

      1. Charlotte Lucas*

        This is a good general description. I’ve worked for government contractors & in government, & it’s very important. If you like learning rules & research it could be something you’d enjoy. It generally also requires good documentation skills.

        I don’t work in compliance, but much of my work requires me to know the rules, make sure my area is meeting them, & be able to provide documentation.

    2. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      It varies from industry to industry. But it general, it refers to a kind of internal auditing.

      The job involves answering whether Department X is complying with some law or regulation.

      This can be working for a university and doing the legwork to prove to the NCAA that you are complying with the scholarship and recruiting rules, or to the federal government that you are complying with Title IX sexual discrimination law. Or working for a bank and verifying that you are complying with FDIC regulations.

    3. Alexis Rosay*

      I imagine it varies a lot by industry. In nonprofits, my field, it usually means compliance with federal grant requirements or national accreditation standards. I think the person who is best in compliance is able to read a very dry, detailed set of standards and regulations, translate them to language others can understand, and creatively triangulate between the cut and dried on-paper rules and the fluid demands of the real-life work.

    4. CaughtOnCandy*

      I don’t know if this is precisely what you want, but my job involves “compliance” so I can share a bit. I do compliance work in a university setting making sure students complete requirements. You need a good familiarity with Excel to do tracking and have into a routine of doing daily/weekly/monthly checks. I email students a lot, following up, assisting with completion of requirements, etc. It’s not the most interesting (to me) part of my job but I enjoy the routine of it, I can listen to some music as I do my checks, do work on how to improve compliance, check off things on my spreadsheet and get a little endorphin kick, etc. If you want a lot of variety, I don’t think it’s for you.

    5. Amber Rose*

      It’s broad. Basically every function is going to have it’s own version. What I do now is a form of compliance work: I run and regularly audit our safety program, and I assist with the quality program audits. What that looks like is that on a weekly basis I gather documentation, on a monthly basis I inspect the company, and on a yearly basis, I compile a giant list of requirements, then sit down and go over all our documentation to make sure they’re correctly done. Then I interview some percentage of the staff to ensure they understand their roles and duties with regards to compliance with the programs and the laws and legislation.

      I do a metric ton of paperwork. My audit reports are in the hundreds of pages. I spend a lot of time talking to various departments about things that are going wrong or are less efficient than they could be, how we can fix them, and then designing and forcing implementation of action plans to address deficiencies. You’re suited for compliance work if you have patience for forms and legalese, strong problem solving skills, and good interpersonal skills. It takes a politic person to change stuff without alienating everyone.

    6. quill*

      In my industry it’s either 1) a mix of routing documents from government offices to product destinations and checking that internal records are made available for purchasers or exporters, or 2) checking physical plant and laboratory safety and reporting procedures.

      I’d say you want to narrow it down to an industry you already have passing aquaintance with before you seek out more answers.

      1. AdequateAdmin*

        Despite my username, I actually also do archaeology and for us it’s doing work (both field work and paperwork/reports) that makes sure groups with federal funding (even tangentally) are following major governing laws regarding cultural resources. It’s also kind of a specialty area, so some firms or individuals can “specialize” in compliance work.

    7. Aquawoman*

      I would think having really good organizational skills would be a necessity, because you are making sure nothing falls through the cracks.

    8. OyHiOh*

      A friend has a background in financial compliance. Their job involved spot checking all parts of a financial institution’s operations – from check drawers, listening how tellers interact with members, and making sure required signage is visible and correct to auditing loans to hours worth of compliance with federal financial reporting, including running membership lists against Homeland security watchlists every day.

    9. Donkey Hotey*

      As everyone else has said, it varies by industry.
      At my previous job, it was not only “the insert says Egyptian cotton, can we prove that it is Egyptian?” but also “the supplier said it was 300 thread count, is it really?” as well as “this company requires price stickers to be placed on the front, upper right corner of the bag and a upc bar code on the back lower left.”

    10. Ann Perkins*

      This will vary greatly by industry but generally refers to ensuring compliance with either applicable internal policies and/or industry regulations or laws. I work in financial compliance directly with financial advisors, so I have to have both the technical financial background to understand investment products and sales and compensation, but also the soft skills to influence advisors to follow the rules they need to without them all hating me. There are other compliance functions in my company that are primarily project based, or back office based/data interpretation, etc. I have a friend who works in oil and gas compliance and I believe she does a lot of reporting functions and pipeline and safety inspections.

      Personality wise, generally it’s going to be people who are type A, able to read and interpret policies for practical every day use, strong organizational and time management skills, natural rule followers.

    11. RagingADHD*

      When I worked at an investment bank, the compliance department dealt externally with banking regulators and the SEC, and internally with making sure the brokers were up to date on their licensing requirements and renewals.

      A person who would do well in compliance is organized, detail-oriented, follows processes precisely, and doesn’t mind too much if other people think they are nitpicky or a spoilsport. I knew some very charming people in compliance who were good at getting people to finish their paperwork by being funny and friendly. Others got it done by being persistent and no-nonsense. Both ways worked.

    12. Hillary*

      Another area is international compliance – they interpret import/export laws and ensure their employer complies with that interpretation. Customs Broker is one of the titles, international compliance specialist/manager is another common one. It (like a lot of compliance) takes a strong personality and a willingness to be the bad guy. You spend time telling sales and leaders no. But you need to be a good influencer and know how to make yourself liked, because you need them to come to you before there’s a problem.

      You also need to know where the real lines are. A lot of compliance appears very black and white at first, but it’s all shades of gray. There are trade law things required by US law but illegal in Europe, and they may both apply to an international company. Which set of laws do you break?

    13. JustaTech*

      As everyone’ said, it varies by industry, but the big thing is razor-sharp attention to detail. It’s about spotting everything (that matters) that is even a little bit off; which could be a missing doorstop or a missing decimal point.

      Professionally persnickety.

    14. beach read*

      A friend audits bank loan files for compliance with all applicable bank laws etc… lots of reading, good eyes to catch errors and writing reports with findings. She says it can be dull sometimes and tiring sometimes but she has a knack for it and she likes the work.

  28. Penny Hartz (real name Jill)*

    Hi AAM community, I am currently completing a capstone research project for my master’s in Learning and Organizational Change, and am collecting data via a survey.
    If you live in the US and are currently experiencing, or have recently experienced a significant organizational change, I invite you to participate. (Examples of significant organizational change include an organization redesign in which the participants’ role, job responsibilities and/or team or unit changed; a merger and acquisition; a change in organizational culture; and/or a significant technology implementation.)

    I’ll comment with more information and the LinkedIn post.

    My ultimate goal is to make change easier/better for employees. Thank you!

    3. Generic Name*

      Ooh, I’ll fill it out as soon as the link is posted. My manager just left, and they have not advertised her replacement’s position because the company has decided to do a reorganization, so I think that qualifies as a “significant organizational change”. :)

    4. Judge Judy and Executioner*

      I will take your survey! I just did my Capstone for my MS in Organizational Psychology degree last year. :)

      1. Penny Hartz (real name Jill)*

        Thank you, @Judy! And congrats on completing your Capstone. The comment with the link is now posted above.

      2. Penny Hartz (real name Jill)*

        Thank you, @Starchy! The comment with the link to the survey (which is within a LinkedIn post) is now posted above.

      1. Penny Hartz (real name Jill)*

        Hi, @Mr. Cajun2core,
        I think yes, this counts, especially if this affects your duties or even somehow shifts the culture of the org/department? You can also begin the survey and if it doesn’t feel right, you can exit at any time. The
        comment with the link to the survey (which is within a LinkedIn post) is now posted above.

    7. RandomLawyer*

      My org (large governmental unit) just went through a massive re-org so I’ll be happy to fill this out

      1. Penny Hartz (real name Jill)*

        Thanks, @RandomLawyer. The comment with the link to the survey (which is within a LinkedIn post) is now posted above.

    8. Belle of the Midwest*

      I’ll fill it out, too. we have an interim dean, one of our directors is leaving next week (moving to another state to be closer to family following the death of her mother last year), as well as one of our career counseling staff (which leaves two of us for the rest of the semester), and the director who is leaving is the career development director. I actually report to a different director but I work very closely with the departing director. This on top of all the “happy talk” and toxic positivity around bringing students back to campus and being one big happy family. I may put in for retirement myself after I complete your survey.

      1. Penny Hartz (real name Jill)*

        Thanks @Belle! (And I attend Northwestern; hello from a fellow Midwesterner!) The AAM comment with a link to the survey (which is within a LinkedIn post) is now posted above.

  29. PrairieEffingDawn*

    Anyone have thoughts/tips on finding/using a career counselor? I’m 11 years into my career, currently job searching and thinking of speaking with a professional.

    I’m not having trouble getting interviews at all. But I’m currently in a toxic position that has I think warped my norms and has me terrified that I’ll never find a “good” job again. I’d like to speak with an objective person who can help me sort out my situation and focus on confidently making a choice for the future.

    There’s an AAM post on this from ~9 years ago ago but I’m wondering if there are any fresh perspectives out there on coaches or counselors.

    1. cubone*

      not a career coach, but recently saw one and I think what was helpful for me was she was particularly experienced with careers at my “stage”. I am basically just transitioning from that first big post-college job and how I want to adapt and grow from there. She had a ton of experience in colleges and with young people/”early career”, so was really insightful. Also, I was really clear on what I wanted: discussion and insights for how to shape the next phase of my career + a detailed, deep dive on my resume.

      So, I would suggest trying to find someone who maybe references some of the things you’ve talked about: recovering from toxic jobs/burnout, fear, “mid career” (that’s what I would call 10+ years of experience personally, but don’t know your specifics). Also, consider looking around for people who do a free intro call and intentionally plan to do at least 3-5 of those, with questions about how they would advise people on those key points you’ve mentioned. Then pick based on the one you had the best, most comfortable vibe with.

      1. PrairieEffingDawn*

        Thank you for this insight! This is exactly the kind of thing I’m looking for. How did you find the person who worked with? I’ve found a few prospectives on Psychology Today and general Googling but haven’t reached out to anyone yet. I’ve also tried asking around to people I know but haven’t had any luck there.

        1. cubone*

          so, fortunate for me but not helpful for you: there was actually there was a government funded temporary program in the city where I lived offering two free appointments with a career coach for people under 30. I just squeaked in ;) They had a list of the available people and you could rank your preference, and that was why I ranked the person I ended up with as my #1 choice. The bit I said about calling around for free intro calls is a lesson I learned from finding a therapist, haha. I did find my therapist(s) on Psychology Today and I think a lot of countries/states sometimes have career counselling certifications, so there might be like a “find a licensed person” tool on their website?

      2. TheDee*

        I just had a free 1st meeting with a career counselor this morning! I will probably sign up with her. I found her through a Google search but even though she is in my town, it took a few searches before I found her. I found it helpful to really have a good idea of what I wanted before looking. I wanted someone who really was a career counselor/coach as their focus, not a therapist who said they also did career coaching. I have some pretty firm ideas of what I am interested in career wise and have explored them to some extent, but need more professional focus and direction. I didn’t really want too much “woo woo” New Agey stuff: nothing wrong with it but not what I was looking for. I wanted something practical but definitely someone to talk through issues with, so not someone just focused on writing resumes and cover letters. I was hoping for someone in my geographical area too, and this person seems to have a lot of contacts she can suggest that I askto talk with which is great. I am looking forward to the process, although it’s expensive!!!

    2. talkitout*

      Agreeing with cubone about setting up introductory calls and sort of vetting people. Adding that you may want to see a therapist, particularly one who works with trauma, in addition to or instead of a career coach/counselor.

      I was in a similar situation and first saw a career coach. She provided great, practical advice for evaluating job offers and clarifying what I want. She also provided an executive view on some of the things I saw happening.

      What stood out to me about your question is “warped norms,” and in that vein, the career coach wasn’t as helpful. She basically said to ignore the bad behavior, which is easier said than done. When “normal” is skewed, you might take on a “What’s wrong with me?” mindset. The therapist helped me understand my reactions and develop more productive ones so that I didn’t take the “warped norms” into new environments.

  30. NACSACJACK*

    I agree with the “Dont make a snarky reply” but I encourage you to write back to her and explain to her that she missed your point – you’re stuck in a box with no windows and no natural light, essentially a factory, and even they have windows. I think she focused more on your comments about how good working remotely worked for you and your team and that’s what she’s turning a deaf ear to. She and Corporate want their employees back in the office. They dont like having their employees working remotely. HR is notorious about working together as a team, rather than individuals so they themselves are not a department to be compared with. I would forward her email to your boss, with whatever relationship you have with him, explaining “I think she missed the point.”

    Sidenote – I wonder if your state labor department has laws regarding working environments.

  31. Alice*

    People working in-person: has your organization shared information about ventilation for COVID safety?
    If so, was info distributed about your workspaces in general or about specific buildings or even rooms?
    Was the info “all HVAC systems are achieving at least X air changes per hour” or “all HVAC systems are meeting/exceeding the standards set by ASHRAE in document X” or “we checked, it’s fine, don’t worry about it”?
    Thanks for sharing

    1. Pascall*

      I work for a school district and, at the height of COVID-19, they put out a “Safety Plan” which is available on the website and includes HVAC information. Here’s a snippet of what is included in the document (with names taken out):

      Daily Cleaning Practices/HVAC
      “• Classrooms and restrooms will be disinfected regularly.
      • High-touch areas will be disinfected throughout the day.
      • Disinfectant spray will be provided in each classroom.
      • All campuses will have a minimum of one electrostatic applicator to provide rapid disinfection.
      • ____ will purge the school’s HVAC systems two hours before school begins daily and also clear out stagnant air for two hours after school.
      • Each HVAC system will run at the maximum outside air setting and maximum allowable air exchanges all day without compromising comfort levels.
      • Each HVAC filter is the highest rated filter allowed by the system and each is coated with the ZOONO anti microbial spray which lasts 90 days.”

      The document included all kinds of other information about face coverings, testing, isolation protocols, etc.

    3. LizB*

      My organization hasn’t shared anything beyond “our ventilation systems are maintained properly and circulating the maximum possible amount of air”. They seem more than a little stuck in older guidelines – lots of emphasis on 6 feet of distance and sanitizing high touch surfaces. Both of which are important measures, of course… but ventilation and quarantining/contact tracing should be higher priorities.

    5. ThatGirl*

      Nope. Don’t think anyone has asked. We do have a mask mandate back, though, after the state reinstated it.

    6. Dino*

      Nope and management won’t answer any direct questions about it. Say they don’t know, but also don’t want us contacting the building management for the office we rent.

    7. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

      As part of a return-to-campus communication we received an update about all of the changes our Facilities and Environmental Health departments had done including adding HEPA filters and increasing airflow through vents and how often they will be changing/cleaning filters etc. but we have a multi-building campus and so there wasn’t anything for specific locations/offices. Any follow-up questions that people have brought up have sort of been met with “it’s fine, don’t worry about it…” answers. We started to open back up and have most people return and then shut back down-ish due to the Delta variant. But for about 2 weeks, I was back to sharing an office space and had requested a portable HEPA filter unit specifically for our confined space. They said NO, and then the point became moot because my coworker went back home.

    8. sometimeswhy*

      Yes, at the Director level (highest level before you hit executives) but possibly only because a third of the org was all “HEY, this thing that we are professional experts in in a different context is a thing we need to be concerned about in THIS context. Would you like to talk to the building management or would you like a pack of nerds to do it for you? Oh you’d like to? Here are the questions we’d like answered. [dramatically unfurls scroll that goes the length of the hallway].”

      1. Alice*

        How much do I love this image Sometimeswhy…. Thanks to everyone who responded. I’m saddened by many of the answers but it’s good to hear some people’s experiences.

    9. All the words*

      Nope. We’re very much left to fend for ourselves and hope for the best.

      Impressive for one of the largest banks in the country, eh?

    10. JustaTech*

      Nope, but we have labs (of various levels of “cleanness”) so in my department/floor we’re reasonably able to evaluate the air exchange for ourselves.

      But I’m not sure they would provide that information for the people who can’t calculate it for themselves.

    11. Purple Cat*

      I work in a general office environment. My company sent out info that they upgraded the filters in the HVAC system to whatever higher setting. And they also installed air purifiers in each of the conference rooms that fit more than 5 people.

    12. CatMintCat*

      I work in a primary school, and all we have been told is “open windows”. My classroom is a century old and the only way to open a window is to smash the glass. I open the door to the outside but that’s all I can do. Luckily, so far, my town hasn’t seen a case of Covid and the nearest large town saw three in April 2020 with nothing since. We’ve been lucky.

    13. Quidge*

      Really late to this, but you might still see it/appreciate another data point! ~4k in company, spread across continents, ~200 in my UK office, for context.

      Early on (during initial UK lockdown) we got an email saying the UK offices were being Covid-safety-checked, which included HVAC/airflow. So I know we’re meeting some sort of UK HSE recommended minimum, but we weren’t given specifics. In fairness, as a non-expert, what am I going to do with them? Yes, that number is higher than that one, good job everyone!

      When we had all our coming-back meetings this summer, some people asked about CO2 monitors (as a way to double-check airflow at their actual desks), no-one on our Covid committee or higher had considered it and we won’t be. I do actually know a bit about portable gas monitors/sensors, and I think that’s a-OK – even getting an accurate reading out of them can be a whole Thing, let alone extrapolating that reading to whether there’s enough air flow…

      That said, the whole company is fully behind flex/WfH working, and not coming back until/unless you’re comfortable. Fortunately, we can ask for all the info and just not transition yet if we’re not happy with the answers.

  32. llama conservationist*

    I am looking for advice on what to do for my career.

    I have a PhD in (let’s say) biology, but I didn’t like academia. So I worked in biotech for 3 years to pay off my loans, but I didn’t like that either. For the last 2.5 years, I’ve been working in endangered llama conservation. The work really interests me, but there are challenges. For example, the project I started is to build a protected habitat for the llamas so they will be safe and hopefully reproduce. However, the community members I work with will refuse to acknowledge my expertise in llamas, and will insist for example that, since they grew up seeing the llamas eat grass on people’s lawns (due to people building homes on llama territory), therefore grass is an essential part of their natural diet, even though that is not the case. They also refuse to allow any kind of monitoring of the llamas’ reproduction habits, so we don’t know if they’re failing to couple, or failing to get pregnant, or to give birth, or if the offspring die before maturity, or what. We only know there are no new adult llamas in the population. My manager is more interested in awareness raising than actual conservation efforts, so although she thinks my work is good, she’s not interested in using her authority to help get the rest of the team on board with my ideas for monitoring, etc.

    Because this kind of work environment is pretty common in the field, I’ve been thinking I’d like to get into environmental policy analysis or work for an international environmental NGO eventually, since that should be a bit calmer and I could live in a city again, instead of this small, remote town near the llamas. It would be good to stay where I am at least 5 years to get into the kind of international conservation policy work that interests me, but if I don’t have any examples to show where I monitored the effects of our efforts on the llama population, it’s not super good experience for the jobs I want. But 5 years is enough time to finish my llama habitat and collect enough samples for cloning, if that’s an option in the future, and that would be good for the llamas, who mean a lot to me.

    But I’m kind of burnt out here, partly due to work, partly small town life, partly probably general covid-related-despair. And I could probably get a job in policy now if I applied to some. I also recently applied to work for a group doing alpaca conservation on the very outskirts of a big city, and from their job posting and postings for other roles on the team, it sounds like they have similar views to me regarding the importance of monitoring population change and creating authentic protected habitats, so that’s very appealing. But it’s a manager-level position and I’ve never managed before (except projects) so I don’t know if I would like it, or if I’d just burn out again after a few years there. And switching from llamas to alpacas requires a big investment of study time.

    So as I see it, I can (1) stay here a few more years and keep trying to get people to let me monitor llama babies, (2) stay here and focus on doing what I can for the llamas without any help, (3) look for a new job in conservation of a different animal with a group that’s more aligned to my views, (4) go into policy research even if it’s not the kind I want, (5) ???. Suggestions? Or anyone who works in policy who knows what kind of experience is good…? Can I even leave after only a few years here, or do I have to stay to finish my projects to look responsible?

    1. Alice*

      As an internet stranger, I’d vote for the alpaca manager job where their values align with yours. Or, at least, explore that in the interview process. Are the values really aligned? They will know that you are not an experienced manager — do they have a plan to train and support you?
      Big picture I think that changing *yourself* (learning about alpacas and management) is easier than trying to change *other people* (the suburban llama lovers and your current manager).
      Good luck to you and the llamas and the alpacas!

    2. Overeducated*

      Keep applying while doing 1/2? These don’t seem mutually exclusive to me, you have to keep trying and see what sticks. You will learn more about the manager job if you interview for it.

      Signed, someone who applied for an unlikely stretch job this week despite planning to stay a few more years to try to finish some projects and look responsible.

      1. llama conservationist*

        That’s true. That’s kind of what I had in mind, and then if I hit the 3 year mark and things aren’t looking better, I might start looking around at policy jobs.

        Best of luck to you with your stretch job, too!

    3. Camelid coordinator*

      I’d also vote for some networking. It could be that alpacas and llamas are not they only choices (save the wild guanacos!) or that there may be jobs that use your skills in a way you aren’t thinking about now. Networking would help you practice saying out loud to strangers what you like to do and the skills you have, which could eventually help in interviews. Good luck!

  33. ErinWV*

    Not sure if anyone else is feeling this, but this week has been a struggle for me that I did not anticipate. I returned to my office 3 days a week back in July 2020, but my boss and colleagues continued to work almost completely from home and my 3-person office was basically always empty. I got very used to having my full office setup but also having quiet and tranquility around me. Everyone has come back to the office full time as of Sept 1. Two people are now sharing one of the positions in my office (so 3-person has become 4-person) and are coming and going constantly. We also have student workers again, which we haven’t had since the start of the pandemic. The office feels like it’s bustling, and I am crawling out of my skin. It feels almost assaultive. (Yes, I am a severe introvert.)

    It’s just weird that I did not anticipate this. I guess it was always this way before, but it’s been so long since we’ve had business-as-usual that I forgot how exhausting it is to be surrounded and distracted and annoyed. UGH.

    1. Lunch Eating Mid Manager*

      It’s worth a conversation with your boss. Let them know you are feeling overwhelmed by the people traffic in a way you weren’t before (when it wasn’t a pandemic, when that was the environment you started in) and ask for whatever you want that would mitigate it. More remote work for you, more staggered schedules for everyone, separate work space for you… This doesn’t seem like you’re being unreasonable IMHO as long as you don’t make a lot of demands that are hard/impossible to meet.

      1. ErinWV*

        They are emphatically pushing back on anyone doing any more remote work, though that’s not really an issue for me, because I have no interest in continuing to work at home.

        Other office space is just not feasible. Our department is in a space that’s the equivalent of a studio apartment. What I really need is permission to close my office door sometimes. I could probably swing that if I had something specific and important that I was working on, but not any other times. Being interrupted/needed throughout the day is part of my job description. I was just surprised how foreign and overwhelming it felt to have the office be full again. I’m sure I’ll get used to it again.

        1. PollyQ*

          Might it be possible to block off a couple of hours a day for uninterrupted closed-door work? So that you’d be available for immediate questions only 6 hours a day instead of 8? Perhaps a mid-day break would be refreshing? It may be that long-term, this isn’t the job for you, and the COVID WFH break just made that more apparent.

    2. Mental Lentil*

      No help here, but I imagine this is how our cats felt when we were all home all day all of a sudden.

      “‘Get a human’ they said. ‘They’re hardly ever home.’ Ugh.”

    3. Hillary*

      Can you at least recharge at lunch? Take yourself somewhere quiet outside or in the library (it sounds like you’re on an academic campus?)?

      Beyond that, would some kind of white/pink noise help?

    4. mreasy*

      No advice, just sympathy. My few days in the office since lockdown lifted have left me anxious and I’ve had a couple of full blown panic attacks. I was lucky that my boss was willing to lower my number of in-office days.

    5. Business Librarian*

      I’d make a sign for my door that said “Concentrating! Email if you need me!” It would be even better if you had a shared office chat function. If everyone needs you for quick questions, you could change it to knock instead of email. That way you’d get some peace between requests. I wouldn’t ask permission to do this, I’d just do it and if questioned say, I found out I work much better in more quiet circumstances. I’ve been doing this forever to keep heat in my office so I have a different sign for different circumstances.

    6. KoiFeeder*

      You also may be more sensitized now than you were pre-pandemic. I know I’ve developed some sort of agoraphobia? Anthropophobia? I’ve lost most of my ability to handle being around other people, especially large groups of people (well, 3 or more people if I don’t know them) or when I’m in an enclosed space such as an office or bus. I definitely didn’t like interacting with people beforehand, but the idea of public transit was not a panic attack inducing concept!

      1. ErinWV*

        @KoiFeeder, there is definitely some of this in play. I’ve done this job for six years and been pretty stellar at it the whole time. I just have to build those psychic callouses back up.

  34. PrincessButtercup*

    I added this to yesterday’s Glassdoor post but doubt it will get seen, so would love to ask again here: what do you think makes a “good” Glassdoor review?

    I would really like to add one for my old job because they have a huge amount of money + PR into a sunny, caring brand, but it was a nightmare internally across the board. They also recruit a lot of young, inexperienced folks and I heard so much from young employees who were clearly deeply uncomfortable and burnt out, but being told again and again by senior people “this is how just how all jobs are”. My goal would not be to air out my personal grievances, or even to deter future employees, but just to know I have at least put out there some personal experience that might give even one person more encouragement to believe in the red flags, if they notice them.

    So, wondering what you think would make a review actually useful, effective, helpful, etc.? Anything either about stuff to include (or not to include) or practicalities, like length, level of specifity, etc. Thanks!

    1. Moira Rose*

      Honestly I think the more dispassionate you can be, and the more you can focus on harms to others (vs. yourself), the more people will take you seriously, for better or worse.

    2. Internproblems*

      I don’t trust reviews that sound like they have a personal ax to grind, so I’d focus on bigger picture things backed up by factual specifics and keep things dry. E.g., “Management expects everyone to bill at least 50 hours a week. Facetime with leadership is the best way to get recognized. The culture is very focused, and people tend to keep to socializing to a minimum.” vs. “I had to work ridiculously long weeks, which destroyed my personal life, and company leadership never recognized all my sacrifices, and every single one of my coworkers was a jerk.”

      When I read a negative review that doesn’t give much context, I always wonder if it was just left by a poor performer who didn’t like being held accountable. That’s why I prefer reviews name specifics that gives the reader information to decide for themselves. E.g, some people might love not socializing with their coworkers (in the example above), so that’s a lot more useful than just declaring that everyone was “a jerk.”

      1. cubone*

        this is a really helpful way of specifying what “big picture” examples look like! Thank you. I want to avoid being so specific I could be singled out as the author, but there are definitely specifics about the culture I can point out.

        1. cubone*

          oh wow, hahah I realize I wrote my initial post on my computer (instead of phone) which I haven’t done in ages and it seems I had another username I forgot about. Weird.

      3. No Sleep Till Hippo*

        I like this – in my mind it basically mirrors the idea of an accomplishments-focused resume. As many concrete, measurable/observable facts as possible – and let people draw their own conclusions about what that means in a broader sense. :)

    3. quill*

      I know what makes a bad one more than I know what makes a good one, so… definitely don’t overemphasize small details (manager didn’t appreciate my hawaiian rolls, etc.) over big ones (Lack of work life balance, crazy hours, harassment, no medical leave…)

      The more concise you can get your review with the necessary details and not adding too much (as opposed to cutting out identifying info) the better it will be.

    4. BRR*

      I thinking trying to make is a big picture as possible, be professional with your language, and be specific. I feel like most bad reviews say the same things: management doesn’t appreciate lower level employees, no communication, etc. A) those things don’t really tell me anything and b) those are just the general gripes people tend to always have with an office. I find it more helpful as a reader to hear concrete examples.

    5. Coco*

      I think specify. quantitative information could be helpful if your company has problems that are quantifiable.

      Ex. Company’s leave policy allows for 15 days a year but employees are discouraged from taking more than 10.
      Work calls after 10pm when core business hours are 9 to 5 happen on average 4 times a month
      There have been no salary increases for the last 5 years.

      Etc

    6. Girasol*

      My employer’s glassdoor reviews are overflowing with bland oneliners: “Pros: It’s an okay job. Cons: Can’t think of any.” It reads as though a manager said, “Today we will all put a positive review on glassdoor” and looked over each person’s shoulder. Good posts address specific topics that job seekers are likely to have questions about. Not “It’s okay” or “My manager is stupid” but “We’re expected to work 50-60 hour weeks most of the time.”

  35. HRH*

    I have a question on how to phrase some feedback to my boss at my upcoming quarterly review. As background, I’m remote working at a small company in my first long term job after grad school. When I started, I worked pretty closely with my boss, with weekly one on one meetings as well as two or three larger group meetings per week. This summer, my boss and the rest of the top management decided they were overbooked, and adopted a schedule structure that essentially moved my 3-4 meetings per week into one meeting every other week, with a request that the one meeting be only on very high priority issues.

    There are a lot of reasons that this just doesn’t work well for me, but I’d like some advice on (1) what feedback is legitimate, and what is just something I have to learn to deal with, and (2) how to phrase my feedback without coming across as overly needy or defensive. My biggest issue is that the culture of the company went from one in which I was in frequent, casual contact with my boss, could get feedback when I needed it, and had some great mentorship, to one in which I will often go several days without speaking to anyone, and often having to wait weeks for feedback on projects (ironically, someone in management told me this new structure would enhance mentorship, since less frequent meetings would be “more meaningful”). In a similar vein, this new structure has led to frequent miscommunication on who’s working on what, and I’ve often gotten requests to join meetings currently in progress that I wasn’t told about ahead of time (once I was even expected to RUN the meeting). It also seems like management is now making a lot of decisions without talking to the people doing the actual work on projects, leading to unrealistic expectations from clients and scrambling and overtime work on our end. I think they think it’s working for them, because they’re not as over scheduled, but it’s been sort of miserable on my end.

    And, FWIW, I don’t think this is an attempt to box me out, since right before this policy went into effect I received great reviews on my Q2 meeting and even a midyear bonus, but I suppose anything is possible!

    1. Internproblems*

      I would focus on the issues you’re experiencing and less on the reduced quantity of meetings. There’s no reason fewer meetings has to result in these sorts of communication disconnects. I’d suggest naming the broader trend you’re seeing (e.g., I’ve been told about deadlines last minute which has led to extra stress and workload for me), naming a couple specific examples (it happened five times on the X project), and explaining the negative impacts (this resulted in my having to shift deadlines on project Z, resulted in poor client feedback due to an unrealistic deadline I wasn’t able to flag earlier, etc.). I’d focus less on the mentorship concerns because if these other items are addressed, addressing the mentorship may happen organically in the process of resolving the clear business issues.

    2. WellRed*

      I disagree that scheduled meetings is “frequent casual contact.” But if that’s what you are concerned with, is there another way to achieve this? I slack for quick interactions or feedback from boss and coworkers.

  36. Amber Rose*

    We’re gonna redo our inventory and then lock it down, which is so badly needed.

    I can do… whatever I want, in terms of numbering and renaming. That’s an unnerving amount of power. How does one design a new inventory numbering system? How, in fact, does one determine what kind of inventory numbering “makes sense”? Because we have a weird mishmash of our part numbers and borrowed part numbers, and I was just gonna keep ours and change the rest but then I got a complaint that “what does that number even MEAN” like, I dunno, what does any company’s part numbers mean? Is assigning the number 555640 to a part that much worse than the supplier’s number of 324687?

    I’m well aware I’m not going to make everyone happy, but it’d be good to not design a system that makes everyone go WTF the way they do over our existing system.

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Why can’t you keep both numbers?

      You have an internal number, which you can guarantee is unique across your organization.
      And you have a supplier number, which you’re going to need to have whenever you reorder parts.

      It’s pretty simple to build a generic search box and have it look at both fields.

      1. Amber Rose*

        We will, but our internal part number is going to be used when selling to customers and when communicating with each other about what we need for jobs. Our inventory management system will assign one part number, and that’ll be used in all the BOMs and engineering drawings.

    2. foolofgrace*

      I don’t know much about this and should probably stop typing, but don’t inventory numbers begin with a numerical sequence that means something? Like “55xxx”s are all schlomos, and “56xxx”s are modified schlomos, etc. I used to be more familiar than I’d like with part numbers of a large computer manufacturer, and as I recall they handled part numbers like that. Processors started with one alphanumeric, memory cards a different one, etc.

      1. Amber Rose*

        Right, so right now we have teapots. The teapots are all model number 111x and most of the related parts are then 11-xxxx. Which makes sense to me, but then I got some whining about “what does 11 even MEAN?” and I was like… it means teacups??? It makes sense to me, but the confusion of my coworkers is throwing me off.

        1. quill*

          Isn’t it usually “the next sequential number we had available for a product?”

          All my batch codes are like, 42A. Product 42, batch A. 42 means that we developed it immediately after product 41. Literally nothing else about life, the universe, or anything.

        2. Donkey Hotey*

          We use a two part numbering system.
          First, to shift from teapots to llamas, there are different parts of the body: head is 100, left arm is 200, right arm is 300, torso is 400.
          Next, there are different systems: circulation is 10, respiration is 20, digestion is 30.
          Then part numbers 1, 2, 3.
          So, parts relating to the mouth would be 131. Heart would be 410. Lungs would be (heh) 420.

          That was totally by accident by the way.

    3. Colette*

      I would guess that ideally, the numbers would give you the classification.

      So if you carried parts for cars, trucks, and motorcycles, you could assign numbers starting with 1 to parts for cards, 2 for trucks, and 3 to motorcycles. 4 would be the start for parts that could be used for any of them.

      And then you could break it down further = 1 would be steering, 2 is exhaust, 3 is brakes

      So parts for the brakes on a car would start with 13, parts for the exhaust on a motorcycle would start with 32.

      Obviously, at some level you’re just numbering, but you could add meaning in the beginning.

      Look at area codes in North America. The older ones all have a 0 or a 1 in the middle. The ones with a 0 were the only area code in that province or state; the ones with a 1 are in provinces or states with more than one area code when they were created. And no 7-digit phone number has a 0 or 1 in the second position (pre-10-digit dialing and the new area codes, of course.) There is meaning in the system, even though you can use it without knowing or understanding the meaning.

      1. OneTwoThree*

        I was coming to suggest something like this! I am not in charge of inventory numbers in any way. However, I do work with mfg numbers a lot. It is helpful for me when there is some sort of logic like this.

        My additional thoughts:
        -Make sure you leave plenty of room for growth and changes.
        -You may only need to logically label part of the part number. Using Colette’s convention above, you could have 32-####. The first part would tell you that is an exhaust on a motorcycle. The last 4 after the hyphen would just be whatever number comes next in the series (0001, 0002,….).
        -Only standardize on things that won’t change internally – product types, colors, product categories, etc. Don’t use external things where you purchase the products from.

    4. Cthulhu's Librarian*

      usually, when someone asks what a number means, it indicates they’re looking for an organizational system where given sets of digits relate to particular traits. So, when I worked in a lens factor, we had part numbers that were 13 digits long – the first four coded for what type of material had been used to make the lens, the next two coded for polishing process, the two after that for finishing process, and then the remaining five were procedurally generated to keep each type of part unique.

      Most of the factory floor didn’t know how the whole system worked, but they might know there own part of it. So, when I worked in the polishing department, I knew that XXXX-15-ZZ-YYYYY meant the part should be experiencing a particular type of polishing process – if the spec sheet or my supervisor said something different, it meant I needed to verify things all the way back out to sales, to make sure that we were turning out parts that consistently met the needs of our customers.

      Whatever system you use, give yourself plenty of extra space in the digits – if you have 50 finishing processes already, put an extra digit in there so that the business can expand it to 1k possible processes, rather than being capped at 100 (though you can use alpha-numeric codes to work around this, if you’re inheriting a process that you need to expand).

    5. Mockingjay*

      I just did a quick google: “inventory standard codes” and there’s tons of sites, info, and software tools to help design a system. Try a more specific search for your industry; there’s probably something you can leverage and adapt instead of reinventing the entire wheel.

  37. Skippy*

    This may be more of a rant than a question, but has anyone else noticed that the trend of employers ghosting candidates has somehow gotten even worse? I have lost count of the number of times over the past six months when an employer has failed to call me for a scheduled interview, refused to acknowledge the receipt of a written assignment, or simply disappeared off the face of the earth after multiple rounds of interviews.

    Look, I get it: everyone’s super busy, and I’ve been around long enough to know how to take the hint that they’ve decided to go in a different direction. But every time someone tells me I’ll “definitely hear back from them, one way or another,” I put on my best smile and nod politely while thinking, “yeah, right.”

  38. Fall Leaves*

    Today’s 1:1 with my manager took an unexpected turn. He said there’s a reorg coming, meaning he’ll have less time for our team (he’s head of another team as well whose work isn’t much connected to ours). He wants me to take over the people management of our team. I’m absolutely flattered that he thought of me but there’s a lot we need to clarify as this would be a new position. I’m super excited but also somewhat scared.
    In short, I’d be managing my peers, some of whom are much older and much more experienced than I am. I’ve already expressed I’m not comfortable managing my own mentor (senior to me but we have the same manager) and she’ll be moved around.
    Until I get more info about the plans… Do you have (good and bad) stories about taking over the management of the team you’ve been on?

      1. Zephy*

        +100000

        Get ALLLLL of the details of this setup in writing. If you’re going to be managing people, you should have the title and pay to reflect that. If they’re expecting you to continue doing your current job AND ALSO do people managing, you will have a bad time.

        1. Can Can Cannot*

          Also, the promotion needs to be FORMALLY announced, both to the team as well as more broadly. Everyone needs to know that you are now the manager. If that doesn’t happen, you will be perceived as just another worker bee, without authority or need to be included in discussions about your team.

    2. OtterB*

      I think it depends on the field and the organization. You said “people management.” I think you need to clarify how much you’ll be doing task/project management, e.g. assigning work to people, being the tiebreaker if two experts disagree on the right way to go, setting project schedules, etc. Or will those tasks be handled some other way, and your role be to handle things like timesheets and PTO requests, be the communication channel between upper management and your team, etc. If you’re going to be directing the work of older & more experienced peers, that could be rough. If you’re essentially getting them the resources they need to do their jobs, that’s a different matter.

    3. Hotdog not dog*

      Seconding I’m that guy’s question…assuming it’s a legitimate promotion, I went through something similar. It was a little awkward at first, but due to both the company structure and support of the change by upper management, we all adjusted pretty well. What helped was reminding myself to always be professional and fair, and to treat my team with respect. (Also, if you haven’t already, read Allison’s book and go through the old posts!)

    4. Kathenus*

      Make sure that you ask for management training, if it’s not already something your organization does when someone moves to this kind of role. A huge key to success in this type of transition is training since it is such a totally different role than being an individual contributor. Many years ago in a management course an instructor said something I loved – “Management is what you get to do when you’re good at something else entirely”. And without training for the new skills you’ll need, it’s so much harder to be successful. And I second what others are saying about getting the specifics laid out clearly – salary adjustment, level of authority (hire/fire, discipline, or just assigning/monitoring work, etc.), what happens to your current duties, etc. Good luck!

    5. The Dude Abides*

      Piggybacking on this, as I’m about to apply for the manager job in my old unit. Ex-boss took a lower title in a different agency after less than a year, and the new big boss and former co-workers are all practically begging me to come back.

    6. Engineer Woman*

      Congratulations! Absolutely confirm that this is an official promotion with change in title and pay.

      Onto my story: be prepared for difficulty. In my case, my peers and I each had our own projects and I wasn’t aware of how some of them were struggling in some aspects of the job. My job became to coach them and help them improve, along with the goals and vision setting for the team. Some of them had been there even longer than I and were more senior in both tenure and level! It was awkward but my team are professionals. The dynamics of course have to change. I was closer to some then others and you need to pull back on the closer relationships to treat everyone “fairly”, note that not equal as some will require more of your time.

      You may understand once you do take over the team why you were selected to do so. Remember: your manager and their level of leadership selected you for this because they believe you to be the best person for the job.

  39. CharChar*

    Hey AAM community,
    I would like an outside perspective if this situation warrants chat with HR to prevent this in the future or if its me taking things too personal. I recently applied to a role that is a level higher than mine, 3 teammates (same level) applied too. One of my teammates got it because they have more experience in complex project management. It was not shared that this experience was needed and there is full faith I can do that work, I just have not done it yet.
    This project work could have been available to me 4 times in the last year, if the managers had given it to me, all of them went to him. I didn’t know the importance so I didn’t ask for it forcefully, though I did raise it last year that a project went to him that could have gone to me.
    The teammate who got it has been the ‘right hand man’ of a senior manager for long time and has worked an unhealthy amount of overtime. I also suspect the senior manager has some unconscious bias going on when it comes to working with women, in the sense that he thinks the world is equal already while never having promoted women on this team (they do get hired rarely when they apply for roles, I’m talking about the yearly promotion system). He was not involved in hiring for the role, but is involved in who does what project task.
    On paper I understand why the role went to the teammate, but I’m so annoyed that my teammate was set up for success in the long run. Fair working environment should not just be to ensure a balanced hiring pool, but equally setting people up for success, but these are my emotions talking. Is this something I should raise to HR or is it just me being annoyed?

    1. Internproblems*

      I totally get why it seems unfair, but in your place, I wouldn’t raise this to HR without far more damning specifics. I think this sort of favoritism is sadly quite common, and it could be more about personality and the promoted person’s willingness to work an unhealthy amount than genders. (It does sound like gender is a factor, I just think you’d have a hard time getting HR to see it that way/act on it). You could raise to your manager that it’s important to you they support your long term development with project assignments. But you likely have to go to a different firm to get a more supportive/equitable working environment..

      1. The New Wanderer*

        This is exactly why I got a new job. Very similar situation to CharChar but nothing substantive or specific that I felt I could take to HR or the union, so I found something else.

        I’m sorry, it totally sucks to feel passed over like that.

    3. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Before you go have a conversation with HR, ask yourself what you want the outcome to be.

      If you just want somebody to listen and sympathize, then HR is not the place to go.

      If you want advice on how to set yourself up for success in the future, then HR may or may not be the right place to go. I’d start with your managers. Do they know that you want to get this kind of promotion? That you are interested in learning about and doing project management? Etc. Just a one-time “I wish that assignment had gone to me instead of him” isn’t enough. You probably need to proactively ask. You probably need to keep your ears to the grapevine, and when you hear about a new project, go directly to the managers and tell them you’d like the project management task.

      1. foolofgrace*

        You probably need to proactively ask

        And have in your mind a list of the things you’ve accomplished that would indicate your suitability for the role. Facts.

    5. BRR*

      Based on what’s here, I don’t really think there’s enough to raise anything to HR. The thing I’m not seeing is whether or not his work is actually good. Because I’m wondering if he was given these projects because his work is good and the company was setting him up to retain him (but totally not dismissing that he got these projects due to unconscious bias!).

      I agree with Alton Brown’s Evil Twin that you should go to your manager and be very direct in asking for things that will help you grow into whatever role you’re interested in.

      1. WellRed*

        Yes. You can even use not getting the job as a reason for having a conversation about getting these projects in the future.

    6. AnotherAlison*

      Oh, you work for my former company. I was constantly fighting this. My role was more subjective (PM work) where it was harder to say you are qualified or not, but I had some earlier career coworkers in very straightforward situations, like, “You can’t become a structural engineer 3 because you haven’t done steel and only have concrete experience.” Um, y’all are assigning the projects. Why didn’t you give her steel instead of 5 concrete projects in a row, esp. when she’s asking for that experience? What always happened to me was certain men were in the inner circle and were stockholders. They were “due” for a promotion to keep moving up. I was a female and not a stockholder so I got passed over.

      Anyway, I wouldn’t go to HR. I’d go to your functional management and ask for feedback on your candidacy and what you could do to improve to be considered in the future. Then you can also point out how the assignments you need haven’t been made available to you and have them clarify why you aren’t being considered for the assignments. Then when the promotion doesn’t happen, or assignments don’t happen repeatedly, quit. (HR may be a place to go when you get to the point of having nothing left to lose, but I’d work through the management chain first.)

      Sincerely,
      The runner up for department assistant manager in 2016 who was completely shut out from that role, AND a separate director role my departing director had groomed me for, in a backroom deal in 2020.

    7. Aquawoman*

      It’s not just you being annoyed. Giving one person all of the assignments need for a role is giving them the role. That’s hugely problematic, but I don’t know how actionable/probative it is. You may want to focus on that going forward and make sure you get those opportunities.
      What might give you a leg to stand on re bias is the the lack of promotions, but I’m not clear on what kind of promotions you mean–new roles or from assistant llama groomer to senior llama groomer? There could be a pattern there if all of the men with four years experience are senior llama groomers and all of the women with 4 years experience are assistant llama groomers.

      1. CharChar*

        Sorry, I could have been more clear! I meant the yearly compensation cycle with promotions, going from standard llama groomer to senior llama groomer (after already doing senior work for ages). I’m keeping an eye on tenure, that is a good point!

    8. Cold Fish*

      I wish I had a good response for you. The passive aggressive jerk in me would love to see you find a bunch of articles about bias in regards to women in the workplace (bonus if they are specific to your industry) and just randomly emailing the links to HR in a “Oh, this was very interesting…” kind of way. See if anyone gets the hint that perhaps some training and policy revisions may be warranted.

    9. CharChar*

      Thank you all, these are great perspectives! I am getting the project experience in the next few months, I will also add it to my regular 1:1s with my manager that I want more check-ins on long-term development for me.
      Most likely I will also look for a new role in the new year when the project is done, I am tired of the male favoritism in this team and its too subtle.

    10. Engineer Woman*

      It’s frustrating for sure, but what isn’t clear is whether your case is truly “good old boys network” or someone being more aggressive in their career trajectory. You also need to take a firmer hand to say: I want to be promoted (although your application for that higher level position now does signal that). Talk to your manager about how to develop you to be ready for the next such opportunity. You say you mentioned once about a project that went to him that should have gone to you. Did you agree that the next time such a project comes up, you will get it? Ask what else you can do to develop? What are the criteria for getting to the next level? Your manager should be helping to achieve your career goals BUT, he needs to know what they are. And you work together on them.

      All said: it is possible it’s a good ole boys mentality and you need to look elsewhere.

    11. Chaordic One*

      The part about, “It was not shared that this experience was needed and there is full faith I can do that work, I just have not done it yet,” is a kind of passive/aggressive way of setting you up. Not for failure, but to be passed over. It’s not something your employers are likely to acknowledge, but even if they do, the best you can realistically hope for is an empty pro-forma apology. A lot of employers are good at such apologies.

      The other commenters are correct when they tell you it is time for you to start investing in a job search.

  40. Internproblems*

    My boyfriend makes enough money to support himself and contribute to shared expenses. But he’s never asked for a raise, and his compensation reflects that, despite the fact that the company he works for would be at risk of going under if he was to leave. I really want him to ask for a raise or job search, but he just won’t. I’m trying to explain that his company isn’t treating him fairly and that there are better options, but he’s been there for a long time so I guess he’s comfortable there? Does anyone have advice to motivate a partner to job search? Just want to commiserate if you’re in a similar situation? I’ve gotten to the point that I tease him I’ll send out his resume on his behalf (I won’t, of course, and he’d be mad if I did, so it’s not like he’s hoping I’ll do the legwork for him).

    1. Pascall*

      If he’s not driven enough to ask for a raise or look for a better paying job, honestly, I’m not sure there’s much you can do to encourage him to do so. Especially if his finances are fine otherwise. There has to be an internal motivation for him, since you can’t do it for him.

      I would say just keep encouraging him to advocate for himself and perhaps he’ll come around. But if he’s content where he is, there likely isn’t much you can do to push him to look for higher pay.

    2. Colette*

      How is this your problem? He’s supporting himself, so it doesn’t seem like this is a problem that affects you.

      If it does, I think you name the problem (e.g. You’re paying your share of the rent, but I have to save more for emergencies because you won’t be able to cover your share if the car breaks down) and leave it to him as to how to fix it.

      1. Zweisatz*

        Yes, this. Something is bugging you about this situation, but the relevant question is, what is bugging you that is affecting you? Do you think this is somehow leading to an unfair distribution of expenses? Are you planning for a big purchase and believe it could be achieved years earlier, if he asked for fair compensation? Whatever it is, address that.

      2. Internproblems*

        This is very good advice, thank you! Framing it in how it impacts me instead of the raise itself. I know I am late in replying, but wanted to let you know I appreciate your response.

    3. Alexis Rosay*

      Let it go–it’s not your why should he job search if he’s satisfied? My partner could make considerably more money in the private sector and we both know it, but the fact that he’s overall happy with his position is worth any amount of $$$ to me.

    4. BRR*

      If he doesn’t want to, you can’t motivate him. I would ask yourself why do you want him to ask for a raise or job search. Do you just want more money coming into your house hold? Does it bother you that he’s not advocating for himself enough? etc. There is something to be said for stability and being comfortable. If bills weren’t able to be paid or something like that it would be different. But if it’s just that he’s uncomfortable asking for a raise, you can’t motivate someone who is not motivated (speaking from experience).

      Commiserating now. This sounds a bit like my husband. My husband recently got a promotion at work. Just given to him, he wouldn’t ask. Did he try to negotiate salary? Nope. He didn’t want to.

    5. Esmeralda*

      Figure out what is actually bothering you about this situation — and the following questions are NOT judgy, they’re real questions that come out of my own experience:

      do you feel that if he made more money, it would be possible to / easier to accomplish joint goals?
      are you comparing your own attitude toward work and career to his and they are just…different?
      are you resenting doing without/having to work more/having to shape your own career path around his not-moving/not-earning-more?
      are there other things going on in your personal and/or work life that are affecting how you feel about this situation?

      My husband is a tenured professor. He spent a long time as an Associate Prof, is not an ambitious person, and thus did not get the big pay boost that comes with promotion to full until just a couple years ago. Every year it bothered me more, because it meant we didn’t have money for X and Y goals; I have a good job but by comparison his is cushy (independence, flexibility, creativity, and it has always paid more) — it takes additional work to be promoted but he wouldn’t do for a long time it because, additional work and he didn’t want to do it unless it was something he really cared about researching; and other stuff was also going on.

      So I really feel for you. I doubt you can change his mind. You can change yours, either in accepting it or not accepting it, but that probably means not staying together, especially if it makes you very angry or resentful. Therapy is helpful for situations like this, I highly recommend it.

    6. Bex*

      This is a relationship problem, not a work problem. If your boyfriend is happy and financially stable, then you don’t really have any grounds to try to convince him to do what you want instead of doing what he wants.

    7. Mints*

      I think this is a pretty innate trait. People can become more ambitious, especially if they see their peers moving up, but some people aren’t. I don’t think either one is inherently negative. But I do think extreme differences here might be deal breakers. If he never became more ambitious, would you be okay with that? Some people prefer less demanding jobs because they value work life balance. There’s a tradeoff either way

  41. Cold Fish*

    Early this week I saw an article about people “ghosting” potential employers during the job process becoming more prevalent. (Sorry I don’t have a link) Basically it was about getting to the interview stage and then silence when the companies try to contact them again. Based off data from well known job search site, the main reason given the potential employee got a better offer.

    How common is it to get to the interview stage and then not respond at all if that company tried to contact you again? Even if you are interviewing/accepted a job at another company. I can’t imagine not responding with at least a quick email that I found another job. But then again, it seems incredibly common for companies to “ghost” job seekers even after interviews. Is turnabout fair play?

    1. Twisted Lion*

      My experience since last winter shows this is getting more common. For five sets of interviews, half of the people who I tried calling to set up interviews never called/responded to my emails. And of those who did agree to interview I would say half cancelled before the interview and then 40% just ghosted with no word that they were cancelling. I had a week with 6 interviews scheduled and only one person showed up.

      Is it fair play? I dont know. But honestly its at the point where if you get through selection, get called for an interview you might land the job because you are the only person who showed up. Unless you do something crazy in the interview or dont pass the background check.

    2. PollyQ*

      I don’t know if it’s fair play, exactly. I’d certainly recommend that job-hunters be professional & polite and spend the 1 minute it takes to send an email saying they’re withdrawing from the process. But I do suspect that many applicants have been ghosted many times themselves by other employers and am not terribly surprised that they’re saying “f*** it” in return.

    3. ampersand*

      I can see employees/interviewees feeling like this is a fair response given how often they’re on the receiving end of being ghosted. It can feel like the norm, so why not ghost an employer?

      OTOH, I’m fairly certain I wouldn’t ghost a potential employer because I don’t want to burn bridges, and I have to live with myself. I would feel too guilty about it.

  42. UpUpAndAway*

    Asking for advice in leveling up on my contributions to a team/unit/company.

    I am a hard working person with an advance degree. However, I was a first generation college graduate and I carry a lot of “servile” (for lack of a better word) attitudes at work. This usually manifests as excess deference to peers and superiors, a strong work ethic, trying my hardest to solve a problem before I take it up to others, etc. I have been in my position for 5 years now and I recently realized I’ve been pigeon-holed into the “do-er”. My bosses come up with the ideas, I implement them (I fully admit I have contributed to that perception and I have been proud of it in the past). But this now really affects my prospects for advancement because I’ve become essential to a lot of processes at work and I can’t seem to move up from there.

    Recently, an opportunity for advancement came up that I expressed interest in. My grandboss thought it was a great idea and that my background really fit what they were looking for. My direct boss, however, decided that that would be better off contracted out because I’m essential to the other things I currently do, and I’m already overworked. I feel like I’ve gotten further and further away from my advance degree specialization and I’m now just the glue that holds everything together (no disrespect to glue-people but I’m tired of it).

    Combined with other issues that have compounded over the last couple of years, I’m now frustrated and looking for other jobs. What I am looking for now is advice on how to level up my work persona. How do I move from an implementation attitude at work to a strategic thinking, planning and influencing? How do I ensure that other people think of me as an intellectual contributor as opposed to the person that figures out how that thought can be rolled out? More importantly, how do I retrain my brain to question whether something is worth doing versus how something might be accomplished?

    Any books/podcasts/blog resources are welcome. I love a good rabbit hole of research.

    1. HRH*

      I can’t remember specific names, but I would definitely recommend looking at some TedTalks on the subject! There are a lot about rethinking your work persona, how you speak to people, and even your body language during meetings. They’re fairly short too–I’ll often watch a few over my first cup of coffee in the morning.

      Also, it seems cheesy, but try keeping a file or notebook of emails/messages/phone calls you get praising your work or validating an opinion on how to approach a topic. It really does help counteract imposter syndrome when you start taking notice.

      1. UpUpAndAway*

        Thank you, that’s a great idea! I used to watch a lot of TED talks way back in the day but got out of the habit. I just watched one and set a search alert so hopefully I can get back on track!

    2. Ginger Baker*

      You may want to check out VanillaBeans’s post below also as there may be replies there that are relevant for you.

    3. Kathenus*

      Would your direct boss be open if you had a conversation with them about your desire to become more involved in strategic issues and your interest in advancement? Outside of talking about that specific project, having a career development discussion of where you’d like to grow and what steps might help you get there. This way your boss will know that you would like to move up and/or refocus at least some of your time on other aspects than implementation. Best case scenario is she’s open and supportive and you begin a path towards that goal; worst case is you learn that it isn’t likely to happen and you have more facts to help decide if moving on is the best course of action. Best of luck.

      1. UpUpAndAway*

        Yes, sadly, it is the latter. I have brought up the career development conversation many times with my direct boss who is always a pleasant and interested party while we talk about it, but then never follows up. After two years of conversation I finally realized it was either not going to happen or it was going to happen at a snail’s pace. Which I am no longer willing to accept so I’m looking elsewhere.

        I am suspecting that the career growth I am looking for does indeed require some more active mentorship so, hopefully, I can look for that in my next position…

  43. Mannheim Steamroller*

    What is the deal with people including their vaccination status in their resumes and LinkedIn profiles? Is that really necessary?

    1. Pascall*

      I haven’t seen that, but it sounds bizarre. I guess maybe to differentiate themselves from other candidates who might not be vaccinated?? But job searching shouldn’t be about that at all. Might also be a way of posturing and letting people know where on the political spectrum they lie (since, unfortunately, vaccines have been made political).

      Very strange. Definitely not necessary or recommended.

    2. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Plenty of people go out of their way to give information up-front on any number of things in order to remove doubt on the part of their employer. Think US Citizen or green-card holder; security clearance; CPA or CISSP certification date and number; etc. Covid vaccination status just seems kind of weird because it’s medical.

      1. Charlotte Lucas*

        This! But now I want to list all my vaccinations on LinkedIn. C’mon, employers! Don’t you feel better knowing I’m up to date on my tetanus shots? No fear of rusty nails here!

        1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

          If you were a certified Rusty Nail Inspector, you might go ahead and list your last tetanus shot!

          I’d certainly want to know if I was hiring beekeepers if you were allergic to bee stings. I’m pretty sure Alison had a letter where a vet hired somebody who turned out to be allergic to dogs.

          2. Mannheim Steamroller*

            I became allergic to cats several years AFTER adopting two of them. (I kept them anyway, but I won’t replace them now that they’re gone.)

    3. Moira Rose*

      If you’re looking for employment with the federal government or a federal contractor, then it’s going to be a screening characteristic anyway. Not that far from listing citizenship for the government/government-adjacent jobs where being a U.S. cit is required.

    4. Bex*

      Given the increase in vaccine mandates at companies, it seems smart to me. My company has a vaccine mandate in place, so as a hiring manager it’s nice to know that compliance won’t be an issue. And if I was a job seeker, I would definitely be interested in working somewhere where the fact that I’m vaccinated is seen as a plus.

    5. winter*

      I do have to say I was relieved in recent interviews when candidates volunteered that information apropos of nothing because we also have some people with … strange politics who are not vaccinated.

      But I would certainly not expect anybody to add it to a profile or resume (or even expect them to tell me in the interview).

  44. Elli in Cali*

    My boss retired in May. Since then my grandboss has been covering the position. In our team’s virtual meetings, Grandboss likes to express our level of sales business by talking about “hair on fire, but in a good way”. Sometimes while I’m at work sites downwind of this summer’s California forest fires, where smoke can be seen and smelled for days. The incongruity is really getting to me.

    The real problems are probably the fifteen direct reports, ongoing supply chain disruption, and upper management’s covid guidance communications. Those are all out of my control (other than by finding a new job). But, is there a way I can politely ask my grandboss to use a phrase other than “hair on fire” in team meetings? Maybe substitute in “we’re really busy” or another phrase? Any suggestions appreciated.

    1. Moira Rose*

      I think *one time* you could react in the moment. “Hair on fire, you should smell the fire residue where I am!” And hope that that pings something in your grandboss’ brain that says, maybe not a great turn of phrase to use. But I don’t think you can ask directly, and I don’t think you can make that remark more than once.

    2. LizB*

      Since they’re covering for your boss, do you have 1:1s with them? If you have a decent relationship with them, I think it’d be reasonable to, at the end of a regular 1:1, say something like, “I have kind of a nitpicky request – would you mind using a different metaphor than “hair on fire” when you’re talking about our sales? Since I’m in the vicinity of some pretty catastrophic fires, it doesn’t quite land the way I know you mean it.” – once, and then drop it.

      1. Elli in Cali*

        Grandboss has not set up standing 1:1s. A couple of times a month, I text or email him about something I can’t figure out on my own.

        As I said, this small nagging thing is probably not the real problem here!

    3. BRR*

      I think it’s fine to say “I’m close to several large forest fires, can we use a different phrase?” or can we use X?

      1. Chaordic One*

        You don’t even have to be close to the fires to be affected by the smoke and ash. I’m more than 700 miles downwind of several forest fires and several days we’ve had air quality alerts advising people with breathing difficulties to stay indoors and also to limit travel by car in order to help reduce air pollution. There were days when the sky turned gray and dark and you could smell the smoke in the air and it gets in your eyes and makes them feel sore.

  45. Generic Name*

    Does anyone have recommendations for decent fashion blogs or websites that feature reasonable workwear advice? Reasonable as in doesn’t feature teeny 20-year-olds in ripped jeans and a bare midriff plus a blazer (or something equally ridiculous) and calling it “work wear”. I am a woman in my early 40s, and my body shape has changed, and I guess I’m re-evaluating my work wardrobe in a post-covid world. I’ve also noticed that the silhouettes have radically changed recently, so my skinny jeans feel out of date. I like to keep up with fashion, but I also want to honor what looks good on my middle-aged body. Any tips? Commiseration? Thanks in advance!

    1. E*

      Corporette, but it skews pretty high-end and formal, at least pre-COVID. (A lot of the readers are management consultants and big law attorneys).

      1. Paris Geller*

        It always makes me roll my eyes when Corporette publishes a piece on an item of clothing that’s a “steal”/”more-affordable” and it’s still like an $80 blouse. For some people, sure, but for many (I would think most?) not exactly.

        1. quill*

          All magazines think a “steal” is approximately 200% more than what most of the working world can pay for an item of clothing.

          Mostly, if you use a magazine, you gotta be shopping for lookalikes, not the advertised brand.

    3. LadyB*

      I follow midlifechic and have found it very useful, particularly if you dig through the archives. Not everything she suggests works for me, but I like the way she identifies trends and how to adapt them for a middle aged professional

    4. Filosofickle*

      Wardrobe Oxygen has good stuff! She’s the only 40-something fashion blog I’ve found that I like and trust. Not specific to work wear, but she does cover it. She had a not-too-long-ago post on newer denim.

    5. Countess of Upstairs Downstairs*

      Chiming in to commiserate! Glad to see you post, I’m probably in the same boat. I’m a mid-40s woman in NYC. Pre-COVID I was pretty confident in my workwear game. The other day, I wore a pencil skirt with a blouse to the office. It was a perfectly good outfit 1.5 years ago, but now, unexpectedly, it felt strangely out of date. It was just a feeling though – I couldn’t quite put my finger on it. I also hesitate to buy new clothes now because my body is changing, and I feel like I can’t predict as well as before whether things will still fit 6 months from now.
      I’ve been looking on the Ann Taylor, Loft, Banana Republic, H&M websites to get ideas for wardrobe updates. I would also love to hear any ideas and comments to commiserate too!

      1. Generic Name*

        I literally put on a pencil skirt from my closet this AM and thought to myself as I looked in the mirror “What the hell do I wear with this?”. I hate the way I look and feel when I tuck stuff in, so that’s posing another problem. My past “uniform” of skinny jeans/pants plus a slightly unstructured blouse and cardigan with ballet flats feels hopelessly outdated now. My office is very casual, and I see my young coworkers wearing the high-waisted jeans with tops half tucked in or shorter tops (but no bare midriff), but it’s a more casual look. I have no idea how to translate that to something more “office-y”.

        1. Cookie D'oh*

          I carry most of my weight in my belly and I hate tucking in tops. The high-waisted, tucked in top look just doesn’t work with my short, apple shaped body.

          You could switch out the skinny jeans for slim cut dress pants. Keep the blouse and maybe add a blazer instead of a cardigan.

        2. MadisonB*

          A skinny or straight cut pant with a shirt, cardigan, and flats is classic. I don’t wear blouses but I do tend toward something like Cuyana’s slim crew neck t-shirt (very office appropriate as a sort of shell) under a cardigan or org-branded jacket. My go-to right now is Sezane’s Clara Trousers in black with a Cuyana slim crew (or a pricier St John breton that lasts forever) (I do a half-tuck), chunky knit cotton cardigan, and mules/flats/ankle strap sandals. Totally comfortable, classic, and timeless. High-waisted jeans and short/crop-like tops is a trend and will be out of fashion again in about a year, tops. I feel better off being on the classic range of clothing than the trendy range, IMO…but I absolutely hate the crop top/crop cardigan/crop everything trend right now, I left the Jordache jeans in 1991, and I’m done constantly paying $15 for “affordable” polyester blend shirts that don’t fit and fall apart/look like crap after a few wears.

      2. AnotherAlison*

        Same situation here, too. I am still working from home, but I went to a conference and had to get corporate headshots recently. I didn’t know what to wear. I also lost a few pounds since I bought all my clothes 2-10(!) years ago. Nothing fits perfectly so that it has the professional “pop”, but I hate spending money on stuff I will rarely wear. I don’t know what’s too outdated & should be donated and what I can still get away with wearing. I also have like 4 summer shirts bought for the highly advertised return-to-work in June 2020 that my company pushed to late August that have never been worn. I have some older flared pants still that are probably back, but they’re too big. Ugh.

    7. Cookie D'oh*

      I like Putting Me Together, but it does skew a bit more casual. Cap Hill Style is another good resource. Extra Petite, Wardrobe Oxygen and Jo Lynne Shane are other fashion blogs I follow. Jo Lynne is in her 40s and doesn’t necessarily post work clothes, but I’ve found it to be a good resource in general for fashion.

      Another one is outfitposts.com. She doesn’t update any more, but there are still posts up with outfits the blogger actually wore to work.

      YouLookFab has a forum, but I haven’t posted there in ages. I remember people would post pictures of outfits to get feedback and the members were always kind and helpful.

    8. DistantAudacity*

      I’ll offer commiseration!

      I’m in the same boat, and here everything is normcore/re-vitalized ‘80’s style. And I wore bad ‘80s and stonewashed ugly jeans in the ‘80s. I do NOT need to do it again! Even if a lot of it is comfy…

      I’ve been cautiously things, and disregarding that which does not work for me and my body shape.

      So – e.g. high-waisted jeans-type trouser, but not in that fugly stone-washed mid blue that make me look frumpy and wearing mom-jeans, and rather the linen-colour version (Dear Cut trousers from OtherStories, in case anyones interested ;)). Have tried different versions of those vests/sleeveless jumpers/whatever they are called on different sides of the ocean, to find a shape/version that works for me. They are comfy and practical in a cool office!

      Erm – yes. This got a bit ranty here. TLDR: try variations carefully, to se what/if anything works. Watch Korean workplace dramas, as they tend to be more buttoned up, for styling tips!

      1. Generic Name*

        Yeah, I’m struggling with the stuff I wore in high school in the 90s coming back. On one hand I’m enjoying the nostalgic familiarity, but on the other hand my body is SO DIFFERENT than it was when I was 15 (obviously), so it’s the same but different. Ugh.

    9. callmeheavenly*

      if anyone has any idea where to locate boring, “normal,” straight-leg women’s chinos in neutral-type colors with no pre-distressed spots that come in a 34 inseam I would be VERY INTERESTED. I cannot with ankle pants once we’re past sandal season.

      1. Generic Name*

        I’ve had good luck with Eddie Bauer for more “normcore” stuff, including chinos. I think they carry tall/long lengths.

      2. No Sleep Till Hippo*

        You might also look into Betabrand – they have a wide variety of SUPER comfy work-apprioriate pants. I just checked and their longest inseam is 34″.

        Their whole deal is making work pants that feel and behave like yoga pants. I have a couple pairs that look business-formal but wear like pajamas, they’re glorious.

  46. Ms. Hagrid Frizzle*

    Just wanted to chime in and say thank you to everyone who replied to my question last week about preparing for a conference with new/changing mobility limitations (especially Eldritch Office Worker and HR Exec Popping In) . I really, really, appreciated hearing your perspectives and thoughts.

    The conversation not only helped me feel more confident about doing what I need to do to protect my health at the conference, but it gave me the push I needed to start the “reasonable accomodations” conversation with HR. I’m supposed to meet with one of our HR representatives late next week to begin the process. Thanks to the community and Alison for all of the posts about seeking ADA accomodations. I feel prepared with the right language and confident about how the process may unfold.

  47. sapphires and snark*

    A few weeks ago on a Friday, I was pinged by a company about a 100 percent work from home position. (Our company had made everyone come back to the office in June with no more WFH flexibility despite us being incredibly efficient and productive.) I agreed to do a phone interview the following Monday. I am normally a poor sleeper and that is especially true on Sunday nights–and even more especially true on Sunday nights preceding a Monday in which I have a job interview! So, I did the interview having slept only about an hour the night before.

    Anyway, I nailed the interview and received and offer the next day that I accepted the day after that! I was so nervous about telling my boss for lots of reasons–basically, I was worried that I was letting her down (I had worked under her previously a couple of years ago and returned with the mutual idea that I would take over her department after her pending retirement). When I told her, she asked me to not accept the offer or resign until the next morning after we both had time to sleep on it.

    The next morning, she had a proposal for me: We switch positions. I become the department manager with a significant pay increase and she becomes my part-time employee at her current salary (another gripe with the company was that they hadn’t given many of us any raises since taking over our contract 4 years ago). We also decided to demand a permanent hybrid arrangement (some work we do has to be done on site anyway). If management rejected any of our conditions, I accept my offer and she retires.

    The company was actually prepared to accept our proposal, except they wouldn’t budge on teleworking. So, they let a combined 30 years of experience and the department’s two best employees (out of four total) leave over the one thing that wouldn’t have cost them a dime! Honestly, both of us couldn’t be happier. I get a small bump in pay, a negotiated additional week of vacation, and 2.5 to 3 hours of my day back for myself. My now-former boss (and close friend) gets to start the next part of her life. And both of us learned how effective and powerful we in effecting positive change in our lives. I just have no tolerance anymore for jerk employers who talk a great game about caring for their employees’ well being but doing nothing when the rubber actually hits the road.

    The only drawback is that I start my new position on Monday, which I had been planning to take off because my birthday is on Sunday. But I’ll manage :)

    1. Goopy GilsCarbo*

      Congratulations on the new position! It really sounds as though things worked out for the best in this scenario for you both. Many companies seem to be really struggle with accepting remote work as a viable option, but then turn around and wonder why they are losing so many employees.

    3. Neosmom*

      This outcome made me so very happy! Sometimes management has to feel the pain to truly understand. Enjoy your new job and your birthday. You have lots to celebrate.

  48. Lunch Eating Mid Manager*

    Question about the norms for schedules when working remotely for a company based in another time zone. I am thinking about applying for a remote work position for a company based on the East Coast, with offices in Central and Pacific time zones. I am in Pacific. I will ask about the specific company’s policies around this, but in general in this situation, is there an expectation that the Pacific time zone employee must be available for 9 AM EST meetings and calls, as well as available to clients on the West Coast at 5 PM PST? (I’m ok with the occasional 6 AM obligation, but definitely not interested in working 12 hour days routinely, even from home!)

    1. PHDawg*

      I’m in central time and worked remotely for an org based in pacific time, but with staff in all four zones. The rule—and this has been the case with other remote organizations I’ve worked for, too—that everyone had to be available for a chunk of time where there was overlap between all four. I think for the Pacific based org it was 8:30-2 Pacific time with everyone in other time zones starting between 8 and 9 and doing 8 hours from there.

    2. OtterB*

      I think it depends on the organization. My not-for-profit is based on the East Coast. We now have a couple of employees working remotely on the West Coast, but we’ve always had meetings that involved outside west coast people. For us, we try to schedule things in a core window that’s a reasonable time everywhere, while acknowledging that flexibility is sometimes needed. And we definitely don’t expect routine 12 hour days.

    3. Filosofickle*

      It really depends on the company, and if the company has clients, their companies too .

      Right now I’m working remotely with a team that’s mostly central and eastern time zones and I start at 8/8:30 pacific. Personally I’d rather not start til 9 but considering core hours 8 feels more reasonable! We seem to be unofficially observing core hours of 11-5 east / 8-2 west. In the beginning I was scheduled for a few earlier meetings but I let people know I didn’t start til 8 and no more since then. (I’m willing to do 7 am client meetings by exception, but not 6. And not internal meetings.) I’m not positive this will hold over time as we have clients all over the world and while my team is willing to accommodate me I don’t know that our clients will.

      1. Filosofickle*

        OTOH my sibling lives on the west coast and works with an east coast company and is expected to maintain eastern hours. 6-2. That was made clear coming in. Just ask :)

        1. Person from the Resume*

          That’s an early start, but to be done with work at 2pm! Might be worth it even if you definitely can’t stay out even moderately late on a work night.

    4. Person from the Resume*

      Ask, but what you mentioned is clearly a set up for overworking so I’d guess most companies would deny that.

      I find some east coast based companies just assume everyone is on the east coast and expect everyone else to adapt.

      My organization is pretty flexible and doesn’t schedule anything too early (usually) or too late, but it seems like the pacific time zone is the odd one out because the big bosses are mostly east coast based.

    5. Colette*

      How much of the company is on the East coast?

      I used to work (in the Eastern zone) for a company with headquarters on Pacific time, as well as other offices around the world. We had a lot of meetings starting at 8:30 Pacific time, and knew that in general meetings before that wouldn’t work if someone from that time zone had to attend.

      But that was for a company with large employee bases in different time zones. If you’re the only remote employee, you’d probably have to work Eastern time unless you’d be working with clients on Pacific time.

    6. Girasol*

      Depends on the work. In office work I’ve been able to work a normal workday for my timezone. Cross-zone meetings are usually scheduled in the shortened window of time that’s part of everyone’s normal workday, though that does tend to require people to shift a lunch hour rather often. When working as a support tech I had to start at 4:00 am to help the folks who started their day at 6:00 am two zones over. You can ask the expectations and/or ask to be put in touch with a Pacific zone counterpart who could share their experience.

    7. fhqwhgads*

      In my experience you’re expected to work standard business hours in the time zone you’re in – with the possible occasional exception for a meeting or two. Reasonable employers will expect you to bail earlier than usual on a day you have a 6AM – or expect you to take a huge lunch break – not to work 12 hours just because you had to start early for one thing one day.

  49. Vanilla Bean*

    How do I stop getting myself into situations where I am The Only One Who Knows Things? And how do I get my employer to stop expecting me to do that?

    Between six and eight years ago, I was my company’s foremost expert on duck herding. It was a niche area, we had some weird technical solutions we’d developed for it, the expert who developed them left, and I learned everything there was to know about that system, and for a time, I was the person you called if you had a duck herding problem. I left that role due to a terrible manager, but still got called for duck herding emergencies for the next three years, until the technology changed and I couldn’t be a duck expert anymore because I didn’t know the new system. (And I don’t mean consultation calls for emergencies, I mean situations where the duck herding division needed help, and my priorities had to be rearranged so I could spend days or weeks helping clean up a duck herding mess.)

    I still work for the same employer, but in the llama division now. My team includes a small core group of llama experts, but we have an incredibly complex llama breeding system that no one but me really understands. We’re in the middle of a llama breeding crisis right now, and I’m the only one who knows the nuances of a lot of things, so I’m working long hours and disappointing people who need things from me that are not related to the crisis. I narrowly avoided a similar situation last year – the fancy chicken department needed a new egg collection system figure out and my boss had volunteered me to transfer there without talking to me, before I spoke up and explained that I loathe chickens with a passion and would not enjoy coming to work anymore if dealing with chickens became my full time job.

    I’m really good at problem solving and complex process management, and I LOVE doing it, but I keep finding myself in situations where getting involved in that work causes work/life balance issues because things don’t run right when I’m not there. I think it’s a combination of my employer’s work culture and my own personality. I can’t change my employer and don’t anticipate changing jobs for a couple of years (this place works out GREAT for my family for Reasons), but what can I change about myself to discourage this from happening so much?

    1. Rick Tq*

      You need to force work/life balance by refusing to be The Only One Who Knows and declining uncontrolled overtime and work disruptions because another group can’t be troubled to learn their own systems.

      Each program’s managers are responsible for getting enough resources so work doesn’t come to a screeching halt when TOOWK isn’t available. Every expert needs an understudy/backup and the company should have plans to continue operations when you (or any other TOOWK resource) isn’t available. If you come down with Covid and can’t work at all for 2 weeks what will they do?

      Your attitude should be “Lack of planning on your part doesn’t constitute an emergency on my part”. Work your job but at the end of the week you are done. Go home and be with your family. Schedule your vacations to meet YOUR needs, not around the risk of Yet Another Emergency.

    2. OtterB*

      It was some years ago, but I remember it vividly because it was an empowering moment for me. There was a task that needed to be done for a project. I had done it once for a previous project, and that made me the team expert. :-) I really, really, didn’t want to do it, but I jumped into simultaneously doing the task for the new project, and documenting it properly so that someone else could do it next time. My boss was appreciative that I had helped the team out with good grace, and prepared the resource for next time. Can you do that, either documenting or making a point of cross-training someone else?

    3. Ginger Baker*

      You may want to check out UpUpAndAway’s post above also as there may be replies there that are relevant for you.

    4. Cookie D'oh*

      I can relate. I’ve been with my company for a while and due to layoffs and people resigning, I’m one of the few people left with institutional knowledge about some of the systems. I work for the Coffee Maker division now but I still get questions about Teapots. I used to just give people answers to questions, but now I push back a bit and give them instructions on how to find the information themselves. It can be tough sometimes, because I have to document my thought process and it takes time. Short of doing a mind meld with someone, that’s the only way I can get out of being the go-to person.

      Even with my current team, I’ve become a person who handles a lot of trouble tickets. I started documenting resolutions for common issues. If someone has a question, I will direct them first to that document and then they can come back to me if there are still questions.

      1. UpUpAndAway*

        I can very much relate… I went on maternity leave for 3 months last year and did a lot of work to document and prepare the work that had to be done in my absence. I have now gotten into the habit of identifying the things only I (or someone else) can do and then training a colleague or at least documenting the process. Partly, this is because I also am trying to leave.
        But, at the end of the day, the bosses/higher ups sometimes have to feel the pain of a problem not being resolved for them to fix the issue. I hate to watch something go down poorly and often step in to fix it. But that is an impulse that veers close to co-dependency. So I’m trying to retrain myself to realize I didn’t create the problem, so it’s not mine to fix. I now wait to be asked to help and when I’m asked, I make it clear that there are tradeoffs – “Yes, I can do that but I will have to tell this other person I can’t keep the deadline I promised before.” My boss still thinks I can magically stretch time but by pointing out my limits I make it clear more often that I’m human too.

        2. Vanilla Bean*

          Yep agreed on the codependency comment. I have a problem I’ve been band-aiding for months now – system equivalent of the Fonz whacking the jukebox to make it work again, only it’s 10 minutes of whacking 4 times a day. It’s only breaking because of a temporary situation that’ll end in November, so in my mind it wasn’t worth really truly fixing. If I don’t whack the jukebox, it stops playing, and people stop dancing, and I have to deal with the people. Nobody else wants to whack the jukebox. I’ve documented the process thoroughly, and my coworker asked my boss what would happen if I wasn’t there to whack the jukebox anymore. He said he’d probably call a tech to fix it. That was eye opening.

    5. Nicotena*

      Honestly, since this keeps happening to you, I wonder how you are at delegation and cross-training. You shouldn’t need anyone’s permission to create guidance documents, cross-train coworkers, etc. Then when emergencies come up, step back, point to the guidance, and give someone else a chance to shine. Do you find yourself thinking thoughts like, “nobody else could understand this as well as me” or “it will take too long to explain it, I can just do it faster myself” ? This is what I have noted from past bosses with this issue.

    6. Diatryma*

      Do you think it would work to ask for a point-of-contact on the target team to explicitly (or not) train to do the things? Like, “I can do that, as long as I have an assistant to help. Now I will train that assistant, Chicken Little, to handle this.”

  50. Dwight Schrute*

    What do y’all do on bad mental health days when you can’t take the day off? I’m out of my PTO for the time being, I’m switching SSRIs and got a new puppy and everything is just coming to a head today. Luckily, I work from home so I’ve been able to cry and work but man it sucks! What do you do work wise when you feel totally overwhelmed and crappy?

    1. kjolis*

      I’m sorry about your struggles. I sat down to work on Wednesday (I currently still WFH) and couldn’t stop the tears from flowing. Finally, I asked my boss if I could take a half day PTO for mental health.
      On other days though, I just handle the immediate and not work on the longer-term projects. This means answering emails, submitting invoices, attending meetings with my camera off. Can you work on a micro level on those days, and leave the bigger picture to the next day?

    2. Moira Rose*

      Normally I would spend the day blowing through all the brainless crap. Do you have annual compliance training to do? What about sexual harassment prevention training? Just line them all up and take ’em all.

    3. LizB*

      I’m so sorry you’re having such a rough day! Like Moira Rose said, the most brainless stuff you can: delete or sort emails, sit through the annual data privacy training video, shred old files. Or, honestly… do only mission-critical tasks and slack off the rest of the day. I’ll be responsive to email/phone/chat, but I won’t expect myself to do self-directed work or move projects forward much. Some days not a lot of work gets done; it’s okay to let today be one of those days.

      1. Mints*

        Honestly, same, slack off as long as I don’t have any deadlines. On the worst days, I keep my laptop open with email and IM open, and watch Netflix on another device. (These are rare, maybe once a month max.)

    5. Mental Lentil*

      This is the day I clear out my inboxes.

      All those emails I thought I would need? Turns out I didn’t! In the trash they go. (If it’s important enough, they’ll email again, but that never happens. I was just saving them needlessly and building up anxiety over the sheer bulk of them.)

    6. Vanilla Bean*

      I get outside during any break time, if at all possible, even if it’s just for 10 minutes. And I do things to take care of myself…what that is depends on what I feel like I need and how much time I have. Sometimes it’s treating myself, sometimes it’s doing something really healthy for myself, sometimes it’s maintaining something or fixing something or making something. I might have a piece of dark chocolate, or make a smoothie, or decluttering a drawer or countertop, or bake banana bread.

    8. twocents*

      I’m salaried, so: I do the minimum required to get through the day. Attend the meetings I have to attend, send off whatever is due that day, and then just phone it in otherwise.

  51. takes things too personally?*

    I found out last week that my contract won’t be renewed – and neither will the my colleague in the same role (hired at the same time). We aren’t covering maternity leave or anything so there’s no-one else coming back into the roles, and the roles weren’t tied to any particular projects. I also work for an organisation funded by municipal government so the money is still there. I spoke to my direct manager and she says there are no performance issues. S0.

    I’m feeling weirdly devastated about it. I can’t figure out if I’m taking this too personally or not. I knew it was a contract, and contracts end, but I’ve totally lost the ability to focus at work and feel really disengaged… my work is pretty self-directed and can also involve a lot of emotional labor so I need to be engaged. I feel like I worked really hard at this role and it was pretty traumatic during COVID and I guess I wish I felt like that was being acknowledged?

    So, tips for figuring out how to give a fuck for the rest of my contract?

    1. Can Can Cannot*

      Don’t bother trying to give a fuck. Instead, focus all your energy and interest in finding a new job. Focus on the future, not the job today.

      1. linger*

        Seconding this. Organisation has made it clear they don’t give any fx about this role, why should you care more?
        Actually, one important reason might be if it allows you to point to specific completed tasks/ skills gained when updating your CV.

  52. Trixie B*

    Hello!

    WWYD?

    Yesterday I was in my office with my door shut and locked. Due to Covid Mask Mandate. We are required to we’re a mark indoors except in our offices. I have a sign on the door to call my extension or contact me via Teams. I had an appointment in the morning, so wasn’t in my office until the afternoon. I am listening to music and getting a snack from my drawer when I hear my doorknob rattling and the EA opens my door, she was startled that I was there. She said to me I am returning a file, I didn’t think you were here because I drove around the parking lot and didn’t see your car. She then said good thing I didn’t catch you napping. WTF! Since she had been hacking all week and looks like death warmed over. I didn’t say anything just wanted her to get out ASSP. The EA has history of not knocking before entering my office. I have asked her to knock before entering multiple times throughout the years to knock and it sticks for awhile but then the behavior returns. I see her knocking on other doors so this isn’t new to her.

    At this point I am ready to draft an email with a formal notice to not enter my office without knocking and include my boss. She is a friend of my boss but I am willing to escalate the situation since there are other concerning behaviors.

    Thoughts?

    1. Colette*

      “Formal notice” is meaningless.

      Was your door locked when she opened it? Because that would be something to raise. But otherwise the solution is to lock your door.

      2. Colette*

        Then you can raise that. “The other day you unlocked my door when I was working. Please knock a couple of times and wait for an answer before you use your key.”

        Did she give you the file? I wonder if that was her real reason. (If she didn’t give you a file, I’d go to your manager.)

    3. LizB*

      What I would do: put a sign up on the door asking people to knock or message on Teams. Maybe add a reversible “I am IN/OUT of the office” sign, since maybe she would have knocked if she’d known I was there? If I hear the doorknob rattling, call out, “Can I help you?”. (Sounds like in this case she opened the door so quickly you didn’t really have a chance to do this.) Talk to my boss at our next 1:1 about other strategies to try. And, ultimately, resign myself to working with someone I don’t really like very much.

    4. Dark Macadamia*

      A formal notice seems a bit much but maybe just a casual follow-up, like “hey I didn’t want to prolong our in-person contact the other day but please knock and wear a mask next time you need to come by my office, I am taking Covid very seriously and want to make sure we’re following company/state policies”

    5. adminatlarge*

      As an admin who has access to offices, I would ask for a little sympathy. The hardest part of the job is remembering everyone’s preferences. X wants you to leave everything on his chair. Y wants you to leave it in her inbox. Z wants you to put it in is his mailbox etc. It’s just a lot to keep track of, and sometimes I don’t remember how someone wants me to do something until after I did it the wrong way.

      That said, it’s not ok that she isn’t knocking. I don’t think you would be out of line with an email to her boss, but maybe word it that you would prefer the EA not enter your office and to instead leave stuff for you in a different location. You could also get a do not disturb sign for your door.

    6. Rusty Shackelford*

      Options:

      Put a sign on your door that says “please knock before entering.” If/when she comes in anyway, say “Jane, please don’t come in without knocking.” Maybe even “I’ve noticed you always knock on Mike’s door, I’d like you to do that for me too.”

      Get one of those file bins on your door so she can deliver files there, without entering your office at all.

      Get a device that blocks the door even if she unlocks it (I don’t know what they’re called, but they’re for extra security at hotels and the like).

      1. RagingADHD*

        Who knows?

        Allergies? Asthma? Wildfires? The tail end of a cold she tested negative for?

        That’s hardly the point.

    8. BRR*

      If you’re always coming into the office (and not in only some days), I would ask her why she continues to come in without knocking.

      If you’re hybrid, is there a way to differentiate when you’re in or not?

  53. It's Bananas*

    I sit in an area with 2 other women and they are always so overly apologetic. I don’t know if they’re trying to be polite, if this is just how they are, etc. It just seems like they’re always apologizing when they don’t have to and/or it isn’t necessary.

    For example, the one apologized for misunderstanding something and then the other one apologized for not being clear in her delivery. It wasn’t something work related or made an impact on anything.

    Any thoughts? Is this just how some people are in the work place? Others around us don’t act this way. I’m low on the totem pole so I feel like I can’t say anything about it.

    1. Dark Macadamia*

      I wouldn’t say anything unless they apologize to you. I don’t think it’s a workplace thing as much as a socialization thing that is very heavily ingrained for some women.

      However, I’m picturing you as the stork in this comic and you should definitely post a copy of it in your office lol: https://falseknees.com/202.html

    2. adminatlarge*

      I once apologized to a waiter after he spilled a drink on me. It’s not great, it’s just the way some of us are.

    3. RagingADHD*

      It’s a habit, and it has zero impact on you or your work.

      Why would you say something, especially when they weren’t even talking to you?

      There are some interesting potential conversations to be had around gendered communication at work, but the notion that you’d even consider inserting yourself here or offering your totally unsolicited opinion on your coworkers’ communication style is wildly inappropriate.

      1. It's Bananas*

        I would just say that there wasn’t any need to apologize. I don’t want anyone to feel bad- I’m not sure if they do or not. It would be more of a reassurance that they’re not doing or saying anything that warrants an apology.

        1. RagingADHD*

          If they are needlessly apologizing *to you,* that’s a fine thing to say.

          If not, don’t go wading into an overheard conversation and police other people’s apologies.

          The fact that this is gendered behavior doesn’t give you the obligation (or the right) to tell other people they are womaning wrong.

          1. Jammal*

            What is wrong with you? Why do you take such an unnecessarily scolding tone? Bananas said she wouldn’t say anything, and you go on about how she doesn’t have the right to say anything, how it’s “wildly inappropriate” etc. She asked politely for opinions, and people like you in the comments really turn off those of us who want to just get some thoughts on a topic. Sheesh.

            1. RagingADHD*

              OP didn’t say they weren’t going to say anything. They said they “feel like they can’t say anything,” which indicates that they believe they should.

              I am encouraging them to embrace that feeling of can’t, because it is correct and reject the feeling of should, because it is misguided.

              I said it is wildly inappropriate for a bystander to insert themselves in a conversation and correct other people’s harmless conversational habits because that is literally true.

              Those are my thoughts on the topic. As requested.

        2. Student*

          As a person who does this: a decent number of the people who do this know that they aren’t actually at fault. It’s not a literal apology. It is a conversation mechanism.

          The purpose behind doing this varies, but one reason I often do it is to move us all immediately past the blame-flinging that comes up when something goes wrong so we can proceed directly to problem solving.

          If I point out an error flatly and try to get it corrected that way, many of the people I work with will fixate on how the error came to be instead of just fixing the problem. Specifically, they spend a lot of energy (and waste my time) trying to make sure they are not being blamed for the problem, especially if they are the person directly to blame for the problem. I usually already know exactly who is to blame for the problem before I bring it up, and I lack the power to hold them accountable for it. However, I bring up problems because they are blocking me from doing my part in the project, and I really need them fixed so I can complete my portion of the work.

          So, I pre-emptively assume blame for the mistake I need fixed, and make an empty apology to somebody who cannot actually penalize me for the problem or its consequences (and probably knows just as well as I do that I am not actually at fault). Then I ask for the problem to be fixed. It short circuits a ton of useless excuses, justifications, explanations, and arguments and allows us to focus on moving forward most of the time. It does occasionally backfire on me, wherein someone with power then blames me for the thing that isn’t actually my fault.

          1. fueled by coffee*

            I am also an “over-apologizer,” and I’ll add to Student’s points that in the example you’re discussing (A: “Sorry, I think I’m misunderstanding” B: “Oh, I’m so sorry for not being clear”) this doesn’t strike me as a legitimate apology so much as an attempt to be polite. A wants to help B save face by taking responsibility for the misunderstanding (“You didn’t do anything wrong in your attempt to communicate, I’m the one who misunderstood”) and B responds to this subtext (“No, I share responsibility for this miscommunication.”)

            Here and in NT Interpreter Needed’s thread above, I think there’s generally a tendency for people to assume that saying the word ‘sorry’ always = sincere apology, even though it’s often just used as a way of being polite/smoothing over awkward social encounters/helping other people ‘save face.’

    4. mreasy*

      Women are trained to demonstrate being apologetic from a very early age. I’m quite confident and strong-willed but I still have to catch myself in over-apologizing! Though I rarely do it in the workplace, it’s a plague in my personal life.

  54. Garnet, Crystal Gem*

    Hey AAM fam. I need your help

    TLDR: How do I take the reigns on an experience that feels like it’s largely out of my hands?

    Background:

    I started a new role in a new field 3 months ago. This was a temporary apprenticeship position, that has now been extended for another 3 months (yay! I must be doing something right?).

    At the outset of this experience, I was tasked with creating and developing my own project, with minimal direction. I’ve done that and my manager likes the project, but the problem is I’ve been working on this project mostly independently, with occasional help and input from various team members and my manager. Earlier this week I shared the progress I’ve made on my project with my team, and one of my team members had a really great question—what is the timeline for this work?

    I didn’t have an answer and deferred to my manager who suggested we could implement and test as soon as the larger project (that my project is a part of) launches.

    The problem is that I’m no longer interested in taking this project further. This apprenticeship was supposed to serve a very practical need. I learn and work for 3 months and come out with something I could ostensibly put in my portfolio to land a FT job in this field. What has happened instead is that I’ve been taken on an experimental project that doesn’t have a defined implementation date, so I can’t speak to any outcomes or benefits. And due to the proprietary nature of the work, I can’t really add it to my portfolio or speak on it in detail in interviews.

    So not only am I working on something that I no longer see the value in, I might not be able to get another opportunity after this ends, because I won’t be able to speak to any measurable outcomes from the work I did.

    I’ve already talked to my manager about working on other projects, and I was supposed to pitch in on other work when I started this role, but that never happened. What else can I do? What’s missing here and how can I make this an experience that will help me find more work?

    1. twocents*

      I work in a role where my team’s job is to help other departments find efficiencies and solve problems. Say your teapot production process takes two days longer than you’d like; we’d hunt down the contributing causes and recommend solutions.

      What we regularly encounter, though, is that our solutions get shot down, not because they’re bad ideas, but because the manager wants to protect FTE. Like maybe the reason teapots take two days longer than anticipated to produce is because Anne and Bob paint the final gloss on with a Q-tip instead of spraying it on. And if we make everyone use a sprayer, then production will increase so much that we will only need 11 FTE instead of 12. ​Whether the boss chose to take those solutions or defend status quo is ultimately her decision as the manager of the department. But I still found the problem and recommended solutions that saved $X and increased production.

      I think you could do something similar: you independently put together a project plan that was set to meet X important need of the business. The business liked it so much they added it to the slate of implementation, currently planned for QX of 202X. You left them able to implement it by drafting a timeline document, steps for implementation, etc. Whether they did anything with that is ultimately out of your control.

  55. ginkgo*

    This is nothing new around here, but I have to complain about this recruiter. I had a phone interview scheduled last Friday, and two minutes after it was supposed to start (9:32 AM) she emailed me to say she had to reschedule because her wifi wasn’t working. Since then, communication has gone like this:

    Me, 9:36 AM Friday: I totally understand, I’m free all day next Monday and Wednesday. Let me know what time works for you.
    The rest of Friday: Crickets
    Her, 8 AM Monday: I’m booked up Monday and Wednesday, but I could do 11:30 AM Tuesday.
    Me, 8:05 AM Monday: Great, 11:30 AM tomorrow works for me!
    Me, 2:02 PM Monday: Following up to see if we’re on for 11:30 AM tomorrow?
    Me, Thursday: Hi, just following up to see if we can get a call on the calendar…

    The worst part is that the actual hiring manager has gone above and beyond to make things easy for candidates – putting the salary range in the ad, recording a video to talk about the company culture and benefits, even a blog post about what they look for in an application. But at this point I may never get to talk to them. I’m mentally moving on, but grr!

  56. Henry L*

    I’m a new director at an educational institution in a smaller town (25,000 people). I’m finding that it is almost inevitable to run into my direct reports at local events, organizations I may want to get involved with, and most importantly, there are three progressive churches in town and I’d like to attend one of them. If one of my direct reports goes to the same church, how concerned do I need to be about boundaries? While I am keeping boundaries with my staff while at work, what pitfalls do I need to watch out for being in a smaller town? It’s a great job and I think I’m managing the boundaries well, but does anything change when in a smaller environment?

    1. Nethwen*

      TLDR: Commit to not letting it be awkward.

      Yeah, this is tough. I’m the library director in a small town and go to a church there. If I were to join community groups, I’d probably be with library users who don’t like me because I won’t wave the replacement fee for the DVD they returned completely scratched and covered in jam or the Friends of the Library member who I frequently disagree with. At church, I definitely have had to explain to people why I chose a different library action than they think someone of my faith should have done.

      I’ve decided that some community participation isn’t possible for me while I’m in this job. For me, anything that might have high feelings (e.g. social justice work) or make me feel vulnerable (e.g. community choir) is out, unless I can do it online/potentially anonymously.

      For church, I’m careful about what I say (no public “testimonies” or “prayer requests”). I might use knowledge gained from my job (e.g. knowing which community groups give students weekend food), but not influence. I’m careful not to use my position as a community leader to impact church activities. For example, if I’m reaching out to a community group as a church volunteer to ask about a community-church partnership, I introduce myself as from the church and never mention my job until the person makes the connection. Then I say, “Yep, it’s the same person, but I’m not calling related to library work; I’m calling from my church.”

      It does require some delicate communication when I’ve had to talk to church friends about a problem with their library account. I try my best to honor the positive relationship we have while still fulfilling my library duties. So far, there hasn’t been a problem.

      Church is such a tricky place because it should be a place where people can be vulnerable and heal and try new things and change their opinions, but one has to choose wisely when and how to allow themselves that vulnerability. I don’t know that I could do that if my direct reports were in the same church; I’m careful as it is, with everyone being a potential library user. I think the type of church probably makes a difference. It’s probably easier to be in the same church as direct reports if the church is more liturgical than charismatic since the former tends to be more proscribed and less affective than the latter. Over time, I’ve found two people in my church who are trustworthy and I can have private conversations with them, but even then, I’m careful what I say to whom. I did make an intentional decision that what happens in church, stays there. I’m not basing my library decisions around someone based on what they did at church. Over time, I also found a couple people outside my community that share similar values to me and understand what it is to be a leader, but also are far enough removed from my town that I can be a bit more open.

      It’s definitely not clear cut. I had to decide what I was comfortable with, accept that things could always go south quickly and for the most innocent things, set up risk management in accordance with my values, then live my life. I think it’s worked out for the 10 years or so that I’ve been here, but I’m always aware of the risk of public embarrassment over things that wouldn’t have gone public if I had a different job.

      1. AnotherLibrarian*

        This is such a well thought out response. I am also in a library background and while I am not a director, I have a public facing role and people often want me to speak for my institution when I am not at my institution. I think you can be in the same church as long as you respect boundaries in those situations and the church is large enough. I do think there is always some risk of people confusing “Work AnotherLibrarian” with “HomeAnotherLibrarian” so in certain areas, I am careful how I behave and very careful how I speak.

      2. Henry L*

        Thank you! This is a very thoughtful answer. I appreciate the honest assessment and taking the time to respond. I’m in libraries too though at a college. It’s going to be very difficult to find a church where I don’t know anyone (unless I drive an hour away which would not work for me). But, I do hope to find a church without direct reports attending. Thanks again!

  57. Chompers*

    For anyone that’s been pregnant, when did you tell your boss/grandboss that you were? I’m a little over 8 weeks now and have my first scan next week. A couple people at work know just because there are some mornings when I’m extra slow to come in due to nausea, but my grandboss (who would be the one to plan for when I’m gone) doesn’t know yet. Exacerbating the issue is that I’m pretty sure someone in my department is going to be telling her that she’ll be retiring in a couple months, so we’ll also be dealing with filling that.

    I know it’s obviously a personal choice but I would love to hear from anyone who’s had to do it.

    1. Decidedly Me*

      I haven’t been in your place, but I’ve been the manager being told of this. One person told me around the 6-8 week mark I believe it was. She wanted to make sure an open opportunity still made sense (it totally did!). The other folks were the dads, so different situation, but one told me around the same 6-8 week mark and the other was probably closer to 8-12 week mark.

      Also, congrats!

      1. Chompers*

        Thank you so much! I’ve been leaning toward the latter part of the 8-12 week window but I don’t know if a possible retirement announcement will change that. I can just picture my boss being like “and don’t tell me you’re pregnant anytime soon!” while we discuss what we’re going to do with the department.

        1. Decidedly Me*

          You’re welcome! Even if it’s not a convenient time, it’ll all work out one way or another :) It’s not your fault (or problem) that you’re pregnant while someone is retiring.

          All of my direct reports are on almost back to back longer leaves for various reasons (including a few parental leaves), which started a few months ago and will continue beyond beginning of the year. And then, due to last minute circumstances, some of the recent leave overlapped with two of the folks. It’s not the ideal situation, but hasn’t at all changed how I feel about their news :)

    2. Perpetua*

      I was in a bit of a different position since I was an external contractor but still a part of a team with a boss to tell, and I told them when we started telling other people other than our closest ones, which was right around 12 weeks. That felt right to me, and I would’ve done the same even if I was a “regular” employee.

      Even if your boss does tell you “don’t tell me you’re pregnant!”, that’s not really a demand they get to make. So while I can understand that you’re trying to take everything into account and help make things easier with the possible departure of your colleagues, maybe it’ll help you to remind yourself that it’s not actually your problem to solve, and the company won’t implode because of your maternity leave (and if it does, it was a horribly dysfunctional place in any case :P).

      Congrats and I wish you a happy and boring pregnancy!

    3. Maiasaura*

      Congratulations!

      I waited until I was past 12 weeks–the chances of miscarriage drop at that point, and I wanted privacy if I had a loss. I think it’s fine to even wait until 20 weeks. You’re still giving far more notice for a temporary absence than most people give for leaving permanently. It may feel like you’re not telling the full truth, but it’s really, really normal to keep this private until you feel comfortable sharing.

    4. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

      Congrats! I told my boss around 8 weeks because I was worried about needing accommodations for things like travel as it got into the second and third trimesters, and because my office likes LOTS of notice for things. Next time I imagine I’ll tell my boss around 12 weeks, unless I need more flexibility in the first tri.

    5. KittyCardigans*

      I am currently 11 weeks pregnant. I’m not planning on telling work until around 16 weeks. I want to wait until second trimester to cut down the risk of miscarriage, and I also want to be able to tell the important people in my personal life first (and I won’t have the chance to tell my husband’s family until 14 weeks). At work, we will have just finished quarter 1 grades at 16 weeks, so my boss should have a little breather right about then. That feels like a good time.

      I don’t really see why they need to know any earlier, tbh. But then, it’s easy for me to say that—I’ve had a pretty easy first trimester, and I don’t think coverage will be that hard to obtain for my maternity leave. The calculus might be different if I were out sick a lot or if my work were harder to cover.

    6. Rana*

      I told around 12 weeks. It would have been fine to tell earlier or later, my company was really good about the whole process. And at the time my job consisted of being the only person handling about four different areas, so it wasn’t simple to replace me during my leave (not to mention I was the first woman to give birth in the history of the company!). We didn’t actually end up making any plans on maternity leave cover for another couple months, so there was nothing that would have required that early of a notice.

      In general I’d say unless you have some reason to suspect the announcement won’t go over well (or won’t go over well in a way that affects you – it’s fine if it’s stressful for your boss as long as they don’t take it out on you!!), you can wait as long as you feel comfortable or tell as soon as you want.

    7. Ann Perkins*

      Currently pregnant with my third and I wait until at least after the first ultrasound. I was excited and told early with my first, around 8 weeks, but also I worked with a lot of close friends at the time. I waited until closer to 12 weeks this time but had to at that point since I’m showing.

    8. CoffeeIsMyFriend*

      I wanted to wait until 20 but I brought it up around 12 for scheduling reasons. I am in higher ed and around my 12 mark (which was last week) we were starting to plan for the spring schedule, so it was better to have her know for scheduling purposes and it will make my life easier in the spring as well. I did ask her to keep it private except for people who “need to know” so I won’t be telling my colleagues until 20ish.

      Don’t worry about the retiring person. This is part of being a manager. Do what feels right to you.

    9. Mints*

      A friend of mine told as soon as she found out, because she had a few miscarriages, and realistically she wanted flexibility in the worst situation. (Which she needed, unfortunately, but now has a toddler).

    10. Macaroni Penguin*

      I told my boss (An executive director in the company) when I was 12 weeks pregnant. It felt to talk about things then because A Healthy Baby was the Extremely Likely Outcome. By that point, Medical tests indicated that both the baby and I had an uncomplicated future. Plus my workplace is a very supportive and respectful environment. There wasn’t any reason for me to hold off on talking about my future leave of absence with coworkers.

  58. no dogs on the moon*

    i’m struggling to resist the urge to follow up too soon on a job interview! i had a job interview last tuesday that i thought went fairly well and they said they would possibly follow up this week. i know i should wait til next week but i 1. am really excited about this one and 2. they said they want to move quickly (offer by 1 october). plus i’m just having a frustrating week at work which is making me want to check in with all my interviews.

    i’m trying to make myself wait til at least tuesday but i kinda just want to check in today!

    no question i guess, just stressed and hoping for good vibes!

    1. voluptuousfire*

      Why not type up the follow-up email now and schedule it to go out on Tuesday? You get the “I WANNA KNOW!” feeling out of you and it goes out on Tuesday. Worst case if you get a response Monday, you can delete the pending email.

      1. no dogs on the moon*

        i think posting here activated something in the universe — got a rejection shortly after my comment went live unfortunately! i had a couple other interviews that were up front about a slower hiring process so fingers crossed those go better. if i find myself getting impatient again i will definitely use this advice!

  59. Laney Boggs*

    I brought Covid to the office last week :( I alerted my supervisor that my home test was positive(I’d picked it up for peace of mind….), and told her first thing the next morning I was running a fever.

    They continued to have a “breakfast meeting” in our basement conference room with the entire team. I alerted HR about who I had close contact with and HR did nothing. I told them myself on Monday.

    Now, apparently, our manager held an impromptu meeting about Covid, where she snapped “Understand?” After every statement (regarding what “deep cleaning” my desk looks like, FINALLY distancing our desks after 3 months, and several ppl in an adjacent department being out while they wait for tests).

    I’m amazed. And I’m so done. I live in an awful area for jobs -I’ve been searching for 8 months with all of 2 interviews. I just want to quit and move to a nearby city and start over!

    2. Alice*

      I hope you get better without experiencing any symptoms. Thank you for helping protect other people by testing and communicating. I hope you can move and get a great job in your new city!

  60. Recently acquired*

    Has anyone been in the situation where your company was acquired by another and the new company’s benefits are not as good as your original company? How did it turn out? Did you get to keep your better benefits?

    My company was recently acquired. We’re still going through transition and we haven’t been officially told what benefits are changing. Reading Glassdoor reviews it seems like the new company does not contribute to 401(k)s and PTO is not as good. I’m not sure yet about health insurance costs. Not sure I have any recourse besides trying to get additional comp in lieu of benefits. Any suggestions?

    1. Bex*

      This really really depends on the structure of the deal. In one scenario, your company is acquired as a subsidiary and everything pretty much continues as is with new overlords. In this scenario, there is a decent chance that you keep your benefits. In another scenario, they merge your company into their company and you become New Company employees. If this happens, it’s very unlikely that you would get a different benefits package than the existing New Company employees. But you can definitely try to negotiate additional comp, or some benefits that are a bit more fungible like PTO.

    2. Chaordic One*

      When this happened to one of my former employers, the acquiring company was considered a rival and they were after the clients my original employer had. High-level managers got golden parachutes, but fairly shortly after the acquisition and transition the mid-level managers were all fired. Over the next few months almost all of the original employees who had not been fired quit to find other jobs.

      The ones who stayed were the kind of people who found job searching difficult and, while they were competent, they might face some sort of discrimination when looking for other work.

  61. introverted af*

    How do y’all deal with it when you don’t get a job because they went with the more experienced candidate? (this was for an internal position, with only another internal applicant)

    I’m pretty fuckin bummed, and the whole line of “we really value your work and were super impressed by your interview and application,” just isn’t cutting it. In part, because the leadership really views this as a place that you go to stay until retirement, and as a young person I don’t think any job would be able to do that for me. Also, the <$1,000 raise last year doesn't help that I already feel pretty spat on.

    I'm trying really hard not to take it this way, but it would be easy to slide into feeling like this was another seniority decision and not best candidate decision. I think it would be easier to feel ok about it if the job description was written for an experienced candidate, and I literally was surprised that the written requirement was 1-3 years experience. Also, it was literally the most generic thing I have ever read. It was so generic I asked the women who currently has the job and in the interview, why is this so generic, what do you actually want from this job? I understand that if it comes down to two good candidates they have to make a decision, and this happened to be the factor involved here, but like, I could have been less invested if they wrote it that way and I think it's likely that was in their minds as important to them from the get go because that's literally their philosophy, so why not say so?

    Anyway, my therapist gets to hear all this again at our next appointment, but I do appreciate the site's support here and all the advice that enabled me to really crush it in the interview.

    1. Littorally*

      So, something good to remind yourself is that “seniority decision” and “best candidate decision” aren’t mutually exclusive categories. Having more experience does often make for a better candidate! And that’s disheartening, but it isn’t a bad thing. You, after all, will continue to accrue experience.

      And another candidate being better doesn’t mean you aren’t good. If one person is a 97% match to the job and the other person is a 97.5% match to the job, obviously the 97.5% is better but the 97% is hardly chopped liver.

      I know it’s disheartening, but also keep in mind that just because they took the more experienced candidate didn’t mean they weren’t open to less experienced candidates. They interviewed you! They thought you did a good job! Interviewers, even for an internal role, don’t know exactly who’s going to apply before they post the job, in most cases.

    2. Anonya*

      You’re taking this much too personally. “We went with the more experienced candidate” is a pretty good reason for choosing that person! It doesn’t mean that you suck or that you have no future there. They liked you and you were a strong candidate.

    3. PollyQ*

      Another thing to note is that while you work, you’re accruing experience, which is likely to help you eventually. But if you’re working someplace that doesn’t have a lot of turnover and does have bunch of people “in line” ahead of you, you may need to find a job elsewhere to advance.

    4. MadisonB*

      My SO was recently passed over for an internal, out-of-state corporate promotion with a life-changing salary increase. His local management team said he was a shoe-in for it, to plan on getting it, and that the interview was a formality. I was idly job hunting, we stopped plans to adopt, we stopped plans to buy a house in our area, we were planning the best place to house hunt in the new area, and I had even given my boss a heads up that my SO was interviewing for an out-of-state position (no, that’s not recommended, and I would not recommend it) – we didn’t make any huge concrete changes, but we basically stopped advancing in our life for a few months. At the last minute, the position ended up going to another internal employee who had done well at the company until promoting too high up, was failing in their new role, and who was then “demoted” into the position my SO was hoping to promote into, in order to save that failing person’s career. Was it fair? Depends on who you ask. Was it personal? No. Did it hurt? Yep. Take care of yourself.

  62. PerpetuallyAnxious*

    I have two separate but related questions. I applied for a job outside my field and got an offer (yay!). Question #1 is that the offer is contingent upon references, background check, etc. This is reasonable, but how long do these take? It is going on a week now and I am concerned about time needed to move and get settled before the job starts (All my references would say good things about me, I am not a criminal, always pay rent, don’t do drugs, so I assume this is a shoe in).

    A second questions is that I had to tell my current boss I am leaving in order to give as much notice as possible. My manager is awesome so I am focused on documenting everything for the next person who I will likely not meet because of the time it will take to fill my position. But I want to thank my manager for being my first good manager ever and being such an awesome person. What could I do that’s not weird. We are a tiny company and we go out socially a lot as a group and she helped me pick my first apartment and took care of my cats once when I went on vacation so we aren’t friends but also not distant.

    1. Decidedly Me*

      For the reference part, as someone that needed to reach out to references, this has always been one of the slower parts of the hiring process. Even when someone has given their references a head’s up (please do this), it can still be hard to reach them.

      1. PerpetuallyAnxious*

        They sent a questionnaire and I have access to who submitted what, and they all submitted. However, it was mentioned they might call some to verify I didn’t make them up.

    2. WellRed*

      Give them your start date once you have the actual job offer. If you need to give two weeks notice and then need say, four weeks to move and get settled, give them the date that reflects that. Companies can’t expect you to wait and wait and then just Jump in the next day.

  63. MeetingLady*

    I have a worsening issue that I haven’t been able to solve.

    I work with teams in India but I live in the US. This means that my days are VERY front-loaded – think back-to-back meetings (usually double-booked) from 6 am to 11 or 12 every day. (This is the nature of the job. It will not change – I’m not asking for tips on how to reduce morning meetings, because that’s not possible.)

    By the time I get to the afternoon, my brain is scrambled. I have a really hard time sorting out what to do when I do get some non-meeting time, and I am not as productive in the afternoons as I know I could be. I often end up just plowing through email in the afternoon to get to as many things as possible.

    What can I do to reset and make my afternoons more effective and coherent? I know there must be a lot of people in my situation – what works for you?

    1. Caboose*

      Do you have any repeating tasks, or can you break tasks into sections? Having a pre-made to-do list with scheduled items for each day really helps me keep working, because I don’t have to spend time figuring out what to do; I just do it.

    2. LQ*

      Can you take a long lunch and do something else? Like even an hour and a half and then get in your last couple hours of work after that? If you are wfh do house stuff, make lunch your big meal and cook and clean the kitchen, or work out, or the like. I think you’ll be more successful if it’s a physical thing.

    3. OneTwoThree*

      Would it be possible to take a longer lunch and completely decompress? It seems like after 12 pm you aren’t really interacting with people so time isn’t of the essence. What if you came back completely refreshed?

      1. Paris Geller*

        This was going to be my suggestion. If you have the kind of job where you can flex your time (and it sounds like you do for the job itself, depending on company culture/approval), I think a 90 minute or even 2 hour lunch where you can unwind, maybe take a quick nap, etc. would really help.

      2. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

        This. Long lunch with a brisk walk. Even a 20-minute nap if those work for you, and you can swing it in your office environment.

    4. UpUpAndAway*

      I don’t deal with it due to time zones but I schedule most of my meetings in the morning anyway, so I can maximize focus time in the afternoon. One thing that helps is to take a strategic pause – “Ok,I got all those meetings done with, now it’s time to take stalk of what else needs doing.”
      I also usually take the last five minutes at the end of one day to identify one large thing I need to tackle for sure the next day. That helps me feel like I’m being proactive instead of reactive to whatever floods my inbox at the last minute.
      If my brain is too scattered, I do an email sorting burst (I follow a modified version of inbox zero). Each email gets archived, replied withing a minute or two, or into one of four labels: Today, Action (the stuff for tomorrow afternoon or shortly after), Later, and Waiting (these magically show up in my inbox a few days later, when it’s time to do them or when I need to check in with someone in case they haven’t followed up until then).
      Then, depending on my energy levels I choose to tackle either the big thing I identified the day before or I tackle the many little things that inevitably end up in the Today folder.
      Going through the folder system really does help me feel like I am making progress on things, while allowing me to respond to how I might be feeling like doing or not.

    5. Cookie D'oh*

      I’m in the same situation with working with a team in India. After some of my meetings, I usually end up with tasks I need to complete based on what has been discussed. Can you take a moment to draft a to-do list and use that as a guideline for what needs to be accomplished in the afternoon?

      I agree with the other suggestions to try and take a break. If possible, get away from the computer or maybe take a walk. I can definitely relate to feeling scrambled after so may meetings!

    6. Anonymous Koala*

      Is there any way you could break up your day? Like take meetings from 6-12 or what have you, then work for another 2-3 hours in the evening after your mind is fresh? Or if it works for your schedule, could you start super early, get those few hours of work in, and then stop working for the day at 12-1 when your meetings end? Unfortunately I don’t think there’s a solution for this that doesn’t involve giving your mind a break before you ask it to focus again after 5-6 hours of meetings

    7. MeetingLady*

      OP: Thanks all. I see some good suggestions here. I think Koala hit the issue: “Unfortunately I don’t think there’s a solution for this that doesn’t involve giving your mind a break before you ask it to focus again after 5-6 hours of meetings.” I wasn’t thinking of it this way…I was trying to gut it out. My boss also suggested a longer lunch when I raised the topic, so I have buy-in for that and will start Monday.
      Appreciate all the input!

  64. amaira*

    I’m interviewing for a new job today! Wish me luck!

    My question is how to handle resigning from my current job if I get the new one. My manager is on parental leave for the next few weeks at minimum, and grandboss is constantly on the road traveling between locations. I don’t have a company email (emails are shared location-based except for managers, who do get their own), so it will have to be by phone. Do I call grandboss? Do I email HR from the shared email and ask for what steps to take?

    2. Rick T*

      First, why can’t you resign via an email from your personal account to Boss, Grandboss, and HR? As far as phone contact, if you can’t get ahold of Boss or Grandboss keep going up the food chain until you speak to Someone, even if you have to call the CEO’s office. Consider your two weeks notice starting when you accept the new job or soon thereafter. Don’t delay moving on just because you can’t get anyone on the phone.

      Good luck with your interview!!!!

  65. No Tribble At All*

    Gut checks / honeymoon phase of interviews?

    I got a new job in March. Turns out, I hate it. Like, soul crushingly boring and pointless, super bad for my mental health, etc. I’ve been job searching, and I just had a first round interview with a company that’s slightly different type of work and hopefully completely different culture. It *sounds* great, but so did this one. I was so burned out from Previous Old Job that I thought a slower paced environment would be good for me. I underestimated how boring it would be…

    So what gut checks do you do to tell how good something really will be? I asked a lot more questions about the culture. I’m just afraid that if I’m running *from* something again, I’ll run into something equally as bad. I’m fortunate to have options, but I don’t want to take another job that I’ll want to leave within 6 months. It’d look super bad on my resume, and also make me unhappy.

  66. Abigail Chase*

    Any one in comms or social media management /digital design? I’m in my first real job after college and one of my clients is just never happy with the social content I plan for her. My boss tells me my work is good and that she isn’t worried about my content but still it’s become really disheartening to get negative feedback from the client every week (nothing even really specific just “i don’t think this works” or “I don’t like that”) So any tips on how I can improve my social content – both written posts and graphics? I know part of this is definitely she’s just a difficult client but I still want to find ways to improve. I use Canva for graphics btw and am pretty comfortable with it but I’m not a graphic designer by any means and would love to learn some basics of design that I can just always apply.

    1. Maiasaura*

      It sounds like you are already doing excellent work to improve!

      I am a writer/editor and my work is sometimes completely reworked/revised/thrown out by clients–it’s never fun, but a mentor once told me that sometimes the greatest gift you can give a client/requestor is to send them something they don’t like, so they can get clarity on what they actually do want.

      Taking that perspective helps me shift my internal narrative from “Oh no, I failed” to “OK, I did my best, but they want something different–now I can use this feedback to better meet their needs.” Removing some of the stress and pressure from that first draft has made me much more productive, since I don’t hold onto things until they are 100% perfect, because I haven’t invested my sense of self-worth in their reception.

      I find also that reading voraciously in the down times in my job helps me understand what others in the field are doing; spending time on social media to understand the content landscape might be helpful to you as well.

      Good luck!

      1. Toodie*

        Exactly this. If you need to work with a group of people to develop some kind of content, it almost always works better to do a draft (even a bad draft!) so they have something to shoot at, rather than to bring the group together to start drafting on a blank page.

    2. RagingADHD*

      When I’m getting shot down, I try to dig for those specifics.
      Is it an issue around brand personality? Voice and tone? Messaging? Layout? Colors?

      Can you get any examples of things the client does like on other accounts? Can you get any adjectives of what direction they’d like to go?

    3. mreasy*

      Can you get more specifics from the client? Because the way they’re communicating now, they’re not doing THEIR job. If they want something different, they need to explain it. Source: creative director who occasionally critiques my company’s social posts.

  67. Another Allison [with 2 ls]*

    I’ve received a job offer, and I tried to negotiate a slightly higher salary (still in line with market) and some extra vacation and sick time. In response to my negotiating, I was told the salary and number of vacation and sick days are non-negotiable. Apparently this also includes things like schedule/hours of work, no exceptions to the no overtime rule, and how much remote vs. in office work there is and other stuff.

    The job is with the government and there is a union. I’m unemployed currently and I need a job but I am not feeling great about having such rigid rules with no chance to advocate or negotiate on my own. Should I try again or is it a lost cause to negotiate? Has anyone ever had success after not getting anywhere in the beginning?

    1. AnonymooseToday*

      I’m in state government. Yeah unfortunately all this stuff is pretty firm unless you’re really high up. It sucks but if the salary/benefits are good enough it’s probably better than nothing. I’m not sure how the union might come into play and possibly help later on, since my state bars employees from forming one so I’ve never dealt with them. You can always keep searching and applying.

      If it is a job that has an uniform job classification title, like “librarian 1”, “administrative assistant 1” you could look up the classification pay ranges to see where your offer is at. You can also probably find the actual pay rates of current or past employees (within a month or so) online to see where it lines up with others at the same rank.

    2. Filosofickle*

      I would take them at their word — this is not negotiable. That’s not unusual for government / union. It’s reasonable not to want to enter that kind of environment though.

    3. I'm A Little Teapot*

      It’s a union job. That is fundamentally different from what you’re used to it sounds like. There are pros and cons to unions.

      Also, you’re balking at not having to work overtime?

      1. LCH*

        is it because the set salary isn’t good enough so you want to supplement through OT? if so, sounds like this isn’t the job you want.

      2. Mojo021*

        If you are interviewing for a position that is in the union, salary, vacation time, sick day, overtime, sometimes even work schedules are all dictated by the union contract (collective bargaining agreement or CBA) and there is no room for negotiation. The only way to change a union contract is through negotiations that typically start 6 months to a year before the end of the current contract. There are positions that are not in the union but they are typically higher level positions; i.e. directors, vp’s or high level admin.

        1. Mojo021*

          A bonus to being part of the union is more than likely you will automatically get pay raises based on those negotiations. It also allows you a grievance process if management does something that goes against the contract so there are added protections. You should be able view the contract online as well so you can review it before you accept.

    4. Person from the Resume*

      It’s a lost cause to negotiate. Government policy and union contracts rule this; they will not be able to make exceptions for you.

      If you can’t work under rigid rules, do not take the job. But is is nice to have things be very clear and set.

    5. RagingADHD*

      The whole point of having a union is to standardize these things. Upside, it’s fair and transparent for everyone. Nobody gets perks just because they asked for things the others didn’t think were an option.

      Downside is, the plan is what it is, no exceptions.

      If you want a customized work experience that you negotiate for yourself, avoid union jobs.

    6. AnotherLibrarian*

      Yeah, as others have said, this is often dictated by a CBA, basically the contract rules, and so you won’t be able to negotiate changes individually. It sucks sometimes, but the upsides can be that those contract rules are real protection when people need it. So, it is up to you how you feel about it, but I don’t think you’ll have luck trying again.

    7. Paris Geller*

      You will not have luck trying again. These policies are written in stone, on boulders. I work in local government in a notoriously anti-union state (Texas) so I can’t speak to the union side of it, but even without the union, any type of government — local, state, or federal — will have very strict policies surrounding this in order to avoid accusations of nepotism, bribery, & discrimination.

    8. AcademiaNut*

      Basically, the negotiation phase has already happened, and was done by the union. So you won’t be able to self-negotiate a different package than the rest of the employees.

      I’ve worked in this sort of job most of my adult life, in multiple countries, and it has its advantages. It’s transparent – you know exactly what you’re getting, and importantly, you know what everyone else is getting as well. It tends to be difficult for them to randomly take stuff away on a whim, and there’s often a mechanism for grievances that’s not directly controlled by your employer. The disadvantages are that changes can move slowly. Firing people tends to involve a lot of bureaucracy, which has advantages (no getting fired on a whim), and disadvantages (management needs to be willing to put in the effort to get rid of someone).

      If you’re a highly sought after employee, who has the power to negotiate, you can probably get a better deal elsewhere. However, if you’re in a demographic that is more likely to be lowballed, or penalized for trying to negotiate, it can be a big relief.

  68. Thumb-twiddler*

    Hey folks! Does anyone have any suggestions for how to deal psychologically with the possibility of a dream job offer that may or may not happen, with no definitive timeline?

    My current job, which I used to love, has been really impacted negatively by the pandemic, and I don’t think it’s ever going back to how it used to be. I happened to see an advert for a position that was pretty much my dream job duties-wise, and even though it was entry level, I applied anyways. The employer reached out to me, the screening and interviews went extremely well, and they told me that the only reason they’d advertised the position as junior was that they hadn’t realized a candidate with my skill set would exist (it’s a pretty remarkably random hodgepodge of quals that happens to meet several unrelated needs of this employer–imagine that they need a full-time Teapot QA person but are also interested in doing some occasional Llama Groomer corporate wellness work, and I happen to have done both jobs in the past). I get the impression that they are revising the job description and, potentially, the budget, since I am considerably senior to the position as advertised.

    My initial elation has turned to impatience and edginess, and I am finding it hard to stay focused on my current position. I’m also realizing how much I care for my current coworkers, and am having anticipatory sadness. I’m also grappling with fear that they will offer the job, but with a pay cut–basically, I am winding myself up in complete hypotheticals. I’d love some concrete suggestions for how to just let some of this go!

    2. Chaordic One*

      The advice offered by BRR is sound. Assume you didn’t get the job. Continue to work hard in your present job and continue to job search.

  69. Certified Scorpion Trainer*

    not so much asking for advice, more of a rant. But feel free to advise.

    I am pretty much invisible at work. I’m forgotten about and routinely ignored, overlooked, unappreciated, you name it.
    I am front desk personnel who sits in the middle of two other front desk personnel, each of us from different departments.

    During tours, it’s happened multiple times that a colleague will be at the front desk area introducing the staff to our guest and be “this is J, from Department One. They provide teapot painting. *completely bypass me in the middle* This is L, they do teapot repair.” I am always sitting there, i work in the same department as they do (teapot design) and if they’re introducing other staff, why leave me out? Not only that, I’m actually in a unique position and have a certain skillset that i help in all aspects of every department and am the ONE person in this entire building who regularly provides all services (teapot painting, design, and repair). So i do pretty much everything here, i know the ins and outs of everything, everyone always comes to me for everything.

    The other day, our president was giving a tour and i was standing next to her executive assistant while handing her some paperwork and the president says to her guest: “this S, she is my executive assistant and my right hand.” She then looks me in the eye and turns and leaves with said guest, never acknowledging my existence. But she did introduce all the other staff they encountered along the way.

    My own supervisors here have admitted to “forgetting about” me despite the fact that I’ve been here twice as long as both of them combined. They even “forgot” to give me a promotion that I’d been promised months before.

    There’s an online “kudos” system where employees give kudos to one another for helping each other out and going above and beyond. I am the only person in this building who hasn’t received a single kudos from anyone in over two years.

    One of our teapot designers was out on quarantine for two weeks and i went so far as to manually set up our classrooms (tables, chairs, paperwork, presentations, audio/video, etc) and teach the Teapot Design classes on my own to the community for those two weeks. They’re normally taught in pairs or in threes but since i have a few years’ experience i was able to teach several sessions singlehandedly without a hitch and *crickets* not one acknowledgment or even a verbal thank you.

    The only time I’m actually acknowledged is when I’m scolded for random BS. Otherwise i don’t exist.

    1. I'm A Little Teapot*

      To be treated as invisible means that you must allow yourself to be invisible. Why don’t you jump in and introduce yourself?

      Also, if possible, take a nice long vacation. Long enough for what you do to be missed and appreciated. Or just find a new job. But do work on assertiveness.

      1. Certified Scorpion Trainer*

        I have been chastised for introducing myself to guests, stupidly enough.

        One of my main job duties is dancing, believe it or not (i work in the community). During special events, i get up on stage by myself and put on a show (I’m a dancer and it’s very relevant to our non-teapot work). So i always joke to my work friends that with music blasting, me on stage dancing, i don’t know what more i can do to be acknowledged lol. I am a woman, and a minority, and on the spectrum, so take that as you will.

        I was out for six weeks early this year when my family was seriously ill with Covid (all recovered, thankfully) and things at work fell apart. It took me about a month to put out all the fires and mend disasters.

        I think it’s more of a they don’t notice i exist until they need something from me.

        1. I'm A Little Teapot*

          Then find a job somewhere else. If they don’t care about you, then they don’t care about the work you do – so let them deal with the fallout. It sucks, its not your fault, but they’re not going to change.

          1. Certified Scorpion Trainer*

            Oh i know 100% it’s them. And i know they take everything i do (and everything i am, basically) for granted and I’m working on my way out.

            I will really miss this community though. The people i provide services for are what have kept me here so long.

            1. Zweisatz*

              Sounds like the right way to me. It’s not fair that you are being dismissed like that and you deserve some basic human decency from your job. I would not be surprised if your minority status is playing into how you’re being treated.

              Find something new at your own pace and then you can watch with a glass of champaign from the outside.

        1. Littorally*

          +1

          This whole strain of self-help mentality that boils down to “the way other people treat you is 100% your own fault” is BS.

          1. Daffodilly*

            Okay, I will:
            Certified Scorpion Trainer, don’t blame someone going through a hard time for the actions of others again.
            That’s my practical suggestion, stated explicitly, though I think it was implied in my first comment.

    2. SadFern*

      I’m sorry you’re going through this. It’s really hurtful. I’ve been dealing with something similar, not quite as egregious, but nothing I do is acknowledged or seemingly appreciated. It’s demoralizing. It’s easy to say you should just to try to ignore it, but the issue isn’t you, it’s them. Do you have any mobility? I’d try to find a place place appreciated me more honestly.

      1. Certified Scorpion Trainer*

        No mobility here, sadly. I am looking elsewhere since i know things won’t change. I do really love the community i work with, that’s what makes leaving hard. My colleagues may not appreciate me, but I’m very close to the community members and i know once I’m gone, many of them will stop coming.

    3. Colette*

      This is weird.

      The only thing I can think of is making sure you build relationships with people individually. Say hi and smile when you see them, occasionally ask them how it’s going or how their weekend was … make an effort at small talk. It’s far less likely that someone you have a friendly relationship with will ignore you during introductions.

      As far as your manager, do you meet regularly? If not, I’d suggest sending a weekly status report so that you stay on their radar.

      1. Certified Scorpion Trainer*

        I have really close relationships to my “boots on the ground” coworkers (the ones who work closest with the community with me) and they respect me, but unfortunately there’s a big divide between us boots on the ground staff and management.

        You can tell upper management thinks lesser of us (even our grandboss and president will occasionally walk by and look at us with disdain clear on their faces).

        My manager is toxic unfortunately and has poisoned the one good relationship i had with upper management. We used to be a great tight-knit group that respects one another (my first manager here loved me) but unfortunately due to “cost savings” we were “restructured” and a lot of our good management were cut to hire the toxic friends of what was left of our higher ups.

        so yes we are a mess and honestly my being ignored is mostly because I’m not in their clique.

        1. allathian*

          If this clique is based on personal characteristics, and only includes white, neurotypical people, there’s simply no way for you to win.

          I hope you find a new job in an inclusive and supportive environment soon. If this means that some community members will stop coming to the events your employer is organizing, that isn’t your problem anymore.

  70. Unemployment ?*

    Back in January, my boyfriend was temporarily furloughed from his job. He applied for unemployment and they made him jump through hoops to prove he was entitled to it (his workplace furloughs x amount of staff every year and those furloughs are built into those specific positions – all usually apply for and are granted unemployment).

    He never received any payments. The last time he checked it was late spring and it was still caught up somewhere in the approval stages. He had sent in the requested documents back in January and never heard back.

    He has since moved on in his mind with this and more or less forgot about it. I mentioned it last night and he thinks it’s too late now to do anything about it. Is he right or can he still ask for the checks? Is there someone in the state he can contact to advocate on his behalf?

        1. pancakes*

          There might be. My state (NY) has something called the Unemployment Claimant Advocate Office. It’s definitely worth poking around your state’s unemployment website. Logging in to his account if he still can to check the status is a good start, too. I would do that first because that might make clear just what he needs to do next.

          1. Unemployment ?*

            This has been most helpful and I will let him know about this potential option (we’re not in NY but here’s hoping there’s an equivalent). Thank you.

    2. WellRed*

      It’s probably not too late. He should check the status to see where it’s at. They may just be backed up, they may be waiting on documentation from the employer in which case he can nudge them. I like his attitude about the situation but it’s worth giving it another try.

      1. Unemployment ?*

        I should ask him if he can log in to see the status.

        I’m not sure if your last sentence is for real or sarcasm…

  71. Applesauced*

    How do you note the company location for remote work on a resume?
    Say my company is headquartered in Houston, but I work remote for them from Eugene OR.

    I typically include the location of my jobs like this:
    Llamas-4-Mamas; Houston, TX ….. 2019-Present

    For a remote job, I did it like this:
    Llamas-4-Mamas; Houston, TX (Remote) ….. 2019-Present

    Thoughts? Conventions I don’t know about?

    1. Nethwen*

      The second example makes sense to me, although I can’t think of any reason in my industry that I would need to know the location of an applicant’s previous positions, other than to verify that that company actually exists, which I only do if something in the application process gives me pause.

    2. Can Can Cannot*

      List your location, not the location of HQ. But, if you spend a good amount of time traveling to HQ, you might want to list both. When I worked for a UK company (and traveled there about 25% of the time) but was based in Ann Arbor, MI, I listed the location as “Ann Arbor, MI and London, UK.” If I never traveled, I would simply list it as “Ann Arbor, MI.”

      1. ecnaseener*

        If you were at a satellite office or something, I agree. But if you were WFH and the company has no presence in the city you lived in, i think you should list the company’s city – as Nethwen said it might be needed to verify the company is real

        1. Can Can Cannot*

          That’s not the way I went. We did not have a presence in Michigan (I was WFH), and it would have been confusing to say that I was based in the UK. All of my other jobs were in Michigan, so for consistencies sake I listed both Ann Arbor and London. It has never been a problem for me.

            1. Can Can Cannot*

              If I didn’t fly to London every month, I would not have listed London, just Ann Arbor. I wouldn’t list any location I didn’t spend time in.

              1. fhqwhgads*

                Sure but it sounds like your POV is the purpose of listing a location is to indicate where you did the work, whereas the concern above trying to be addressed was indicating where the company exists so it can be verified that it’s real. You listed both so it probably doesn’t matter – but if you’d listed only Ann Arbor and they went looking for that company in Ann Arbor and found it didn’t exist, then you either get ignored or end up having to explain it, which is not the end of the world, but “I would not list any location I didn’t spend time in” doesn’t help identify the company; it only identifies where you personally were/are.

  72. Put the Blame on Edamame*

    Should I buy my boss a thank you gift? She busted ass the day before she went on leave to help me submit a job application for an internal role, even though she doesn’t want me to leave our dept she was v kind and generous in her recommendation. We haven’t had the best relationship in the past and I want to acknowledge how awesome she was, k was thinking a food delivery voucher or department store gift card?

      1. Lunch Eating Mid Manager*

        Agreed. Write out your thanks and it will be very meaningful. Don’t monetize the help she gave.

  73. Keymaster of Gozer (she/her)*

    First off: thank you to all the people who advised me on how to get a stain out of an office chair. Pleased to say it’s no longer visible and I don’t have to explain to the boss what happened!

    Secondly, this is a really minor thing and I hope it doesn’t come off as bragging but I could do with a few ideas how to minimise my height so I’m not intimidating my staff. I’m over 6 foot tall and most of them are barely above 5 foot 4 and I do notice that this can make me seem a bit ‘looming’ (am also fat – so I take up a lot of space).

    Have started to sit down when talking to people so I’m not standing next to their desk but any other advice? I don’t want my staff to fear me.

      1. Keymaster of Gozer (she/her)*

        Oh, true, I do still do that (of course I mask too and got all my vaccines). Maybe that’s all I need to do.

        Basically what started this was someone from HR telling me that I’m ‘sometimes intimidating’.

        1. Chicago Anon*

          Nobody can be intimidated without their consent. HR sounds out of line to me. It’s one thing not to stand too close to someone (stay outside of normal “personal distance,” or in Covid times, observe the 6-feet rule), but you should not have to try to shrink yourself. “Intimidating” is something female (and female-presenting) academics get a lot. In my environment, it translates as “You seem really smart and I’m not sure I can measure up, so I’m projecting my insecurities onto you.”

          2. Colette*

            I mean, people can be intimidating because of their behaviour – e.g. you say something and they snap at you; they stand too close or box you in so you have no way out; you make a suggestion and they hit you with complaints right off the bat.

            Of course I don’t think Keymaster is doing those things, but it’s not true to say that if you’re intimidated, it’s always your fault.

            1. Keymaster of Gozer (she/her)*

              That’s kinda my worry. I’m aware that I don’t have a soft voice, have little tolerance for stupidity, am about twice the size of most people here (in terms of body mass) and I’m the boss so I *do* have power over others.

              I’m just worried that they’re thinking I’m threatening them by being, well, an outspoken WOC who’s really big. Maybe though I’m just being paranoid.

              Which, with me, IS a concern.

              1. Colette*

                The only part of that that concerns me is “have little tolerance for stupidity”, so I’d work on making sure that that’s under control and you are treating your subordinates respectfully even when you’re frustrated.

                It might also be helpful to do casual check-ins if you can – asking how things are going, for example, so that they don’t have to start the conversation if something is going wrong.

                1. Keymaster of Gozer (she/her)*

                  Oh I did not word that right, apologies! Just means people here know that if you’re gonna spout antivaxx/Covid denial BS at me you’re about to have a really, really bad time.

                  Mistakes in work are just part of life – I’d never berate someone for a simple error. But anyone coming out with bigotry for example I don’t count as an error – I count that as stupidity.

                2. Colette*

                  @Keymaster – as long as you’re calm and respectful when there’s a work problem, then it doesn’t sound like the issue is on your end. But I do think proactively checking in with people might help, if you’re not already doing that.

          3. Victoria*

            I agree with Chicago Anon. I am 5’1″ and your size wouldn’t bother me and if it did, it would be *my* problem, not your problem. That’s your natural size! WTH. You aren’t engaging in hand to hand combat, so your size should not be the issue here. In terms of being intimidating, perhaps consider your personal interaction style and if you could be more supportive of others’ input?

          5. Rusty Shackelford*

            So if I’m a foot taller than you, and big and muscular, and you’re a small woman, and I stand in your doorway and berate and threaten you in a loud voice and won’t let you escape… if you’re intimidated, it’s *your* fault, because you “consent?” Sorry, but that’s ridiculous.

            (I’m not describing KoG here, just saying let’s not blame the victim when it comes to intimidation.)

        2. Anonymous Koala*

          I think this really requires more context (possibly from HR). We’re they thinking of your speaking volume, the way you interact in person, your tone in emails…? And if they’re using ‘intimidating’ as a proxy for ‘we’re not used to someone who looks like you’ with regard to the height/weight, then that’s pretty inappropriate and I wouldn’t put much stock in their feedback.

          1. Keymaster of Gozer (she/her)*

            I did ask back, although her accusation was given in a really casual ‘by the way’ style and she just sort of motioned her hand round and said ‘you’re just a big person all round’

            So I took it to mean my physical size because of the motion of her hand if that makes sense?

            1. Anonymous Koala*

              How rude of her. Unless you really see some merit in her criticism (or just really need her to like you) I would let that feedback go in one ear and out the other. No one should comment on their coworkers’ size at work, particularly not HR.

              If you really are concerned that you seem intimidating (despite the terrible way the feedback was given) then I would work on ensuring that you smile when you talk to people, give people a few minutes to talk about themselves / catch up at the beginning and ends of meetings, ensure that your reports and coworkers feel heard at meetings, and make sure you give people 6 feet of social distancing space.

              1. Keymaster of Gozer (she/her)*

                Definitely do the social distancing (I’m probably the most paranoid about viruses person here!) but that’s a good tip on the meetings bit. I think maybe I can be a bit *too* focused on the job sometimes.

            2. Mstr*

              I think you can ignore the height/weight aspect here & ask for specific examples. If she can’t give you behavioral examples, then ask her directly if she is telling you to change your height & weight. Be sure to act astonished & tell her that won’t be possible to change & is not an appropriate metric by which to measure your ability to interact with staff.

              That said, I think you mentioned wearing 5-inch gothic heels whereas everyone else in your workplace is wearing flip-flops — perhaps consider flats if you do think perceived “looming” is a problem.

              1. Keymaster of Gozer (she/her)*

                I do wear heels often but no idea where the flip flops idea is from! My staff wear everything from trainers (sneakers) to heels as well but I’ve never seen sandals or flip flops.

                (Also I can’t walk in flats. Weird I know! But I’m better with my cane if I’m at least wearing a bit of a heel. I will reduce wearing the ridiculously high heels though, I can see where that could cause a looming issue)

                1. American Job Venter*

                  IMO it sounds like the person trying to advise you is scolding you for how you exist, not how you act. As You Know, Bob-Keymaster, you can’t change how you exist. If you’re not leaning over people and using a booming voice I doubt you have anything to worry about.

                  *sends encouragement*

            3. Rusty Shackelford*

              I wonder if she meant “big” meaning not just size, but voice, etc. Do you speak loudly, do you gesture a lot?

              1. Keymaster of Gozer (she/her)*

                I don’t gesture, I used to but after doing teaching (adults how to use computers) I stopped because it was pointed out that was a distraction. My voice *does* carry – it’s not loud but it is on the low end of a female voice scale.

          2. LCH*

            if this was an actual complaint, you really need more context than HR has provided. just being tall or larger is not a problem. but from what you’ve said so far, I also don’t think it has much merit or it’s a them problem. this is coming from a 5ft tall person.

        3. Nethwen*

          I don’t say this to minimize your concern- it’s good that you’re concerned about your staff feeling comfortable. I share this to offer perspective.

          I’m less than 5 feet tall and have a curvaceous female body. Only my husband and doctor get close enough to me to discover that I have muscles. And yet, I’ve had grown men almost twice my height and three times my weight tell me that I’m intimidating. In the cases I remember, it was because I either told the man to take care of his area of expertise and I’ll take care of my area (i.e. stop “advising” me on things you know nothing about) or when I was asking questions in a forum specifically created to ask questions.

    2. Hotdog not dog*

      I say go ahead and keep looming. As a vertically challenged individual, I’m accustomed to literally looking up to others, but feeling intimidated by anyone rarely has anything to do with size. I used to be part of a management team where I was the only woman and also the shortest by more than a foot. Quite a few folks said that I was the most intimidating of the group….seems to be a thing when we girls veer off the “sugar and spice” path.

    3. RagingADHD*

      Are you loud? Do you gesticulate a lot? Do you use a lot of aggressive language in jest that others might not be sure is in jest? I’ve seen you mention wearing 4 or 5 inch heels with zombies on them. I could see how that could present as intimidating.

      Do you frequently express exasperation or annoyance? Do you get the whole story on a situation before you respond, or do you react first and listen later? Are you solutions-focused or blame-focused in addressing problems? Do you escalate the energy in a stressful situation, or defuse it? Do you vent your feelings around your staff, even if not directly at them?

      I’m just throwing out things I remember about managers I’d describe as intimidating. It’s rarely about size IME, and usually about temperament or communication style. Then again, I am also quite tall, so it’s not the same as a petite person’s experience.

      I would never think intimidating your staff was something to brag about, quite the contrary. Why would anyone think that was bragging? Perhaps there’s something useful to unpack there in your own thinking.

      1. Nethwen*

        I read it as not bragging about being tall. In my culture, tall is perceived as better than short, although it gets trickier with women, and physically desired characteristics are often spoken of as if they were a choice intentionally made and worked for by the person, so there’s a tendency to apologize/explain when someone falls outside the average. Of course, I can’t speak for K0G, but that’s why I interpreted the comment to be about height.

      2. Keymaster of Gozer (she/her)*

        Oh, sorry, I meant not implying about bragging about being tall. I really gotta work on my writing.

    4. Student*

      Mainly, don’t block exits or common pathways, and maintain a reasonable inter-personal distance. Inter-personal distance norms vary by country and specific social situations – look at what everyone else in a similar context is doing and try to imitate the average distance between people while speaking).

      I’m a shorty myself, barely over 5′. If you’re in the US, the 5’4″ folks you work with are average height for women. They are probably used to encountering men your height and not particularly intimidated. Since I’m on the shorter end of the scale, let me reassure you – height differences are not all that intimidating to most adults. Almost all the people I encounter are taller than me, often much taller than me. I don’t give it a second thought.

      You may have to deal with some men who are bothered by interacting with a woman who’s taller than they are. It’s not intimidation, though, so much as sexism manifesting as feelings of male insecurity. Feeding their egos is not the right answer to their sexism; try to treat them like everyone else and address any specific instances by showing you won’t tolerate their nonsense. I assure you, they’ve dealt with 6′ and up men without issues; roughly 15ish percent of men are 6′ or taller (in the US).

      1. Keymaster of Gozer (she/her)*

        It’s definitely a statistical outlier my team! Most are men (IT still isn’t equal) and they’re all a lot shorter than me.

    5. Chaordic One*

      I’ve often heard that taller women have an advantage in the workplace in that they are seen as being more of an equal by men. Personally, I haven’t really experienced it, but it’s out there. I’ve certainly had some bad experiences with short men who seem to be unusually insecure and unnecessarily aggressive and it seems (to me) like they’re compensating.

      I don’t know that you need to minimize your height. I appreciate a big tall woman being her big beautiful self, wearing heels if she finds them comfortable and if that’s what she wants to wear (as long as she can walk in them). There is the conventional advice to make yourself appear shorter by not wearing high heals and avoiding pointed shoes. Wear longer tops and jackets and avoid tight tops. Supposedly, baggy tops make your legs look shorter. If you wear skirts, wear them below the knee. Wear tops and bottoms in contrasting colors. If you have longer hair, wear it down. I’ve also heard that large women should carry a larger than usual purse or briefcase.

      This sounds really sexist to say, but you might also consider dressing in more traditionally feminine clothing styles and colors. You still need to dress professionally, but if feel you come off as being intimidating you might consider avoiding dark colors. You can probably get away with wearing pastels and traditional floral prints and not have that detract from your authority. But take my advice with a grain of salt. Try experimenting and see what works and what doesn’t. If, when you dress in more traditionally feminine colors and styles, you feel you are not being taken as seriously, then you might go back to how you usually dress.

  74. This Old House*

    Probably more of a vent than an actionable question, but is there any way to teach people to communicate effectively in writing? I am so fed up with emails where responses that don’t address the questions asked; one word answers to complicated, multi-part questions; and emails and reports that are so vague and poorly-worded as to be unintelligible.

    1. I'm A Little Teapot*

      Do you have authority over them? If yes, then you can send it back for rewrites. If no, then you’re stuck.

      I sympathize. It’s not cute, it’s not ok, and it does reflect negatively on a person.

    2. Cookie D'oh*

      I can relate. I know when I send an email to certain people, it is like pulling teeth to get an appropriate response.

      For the complicated questions, can you schedule a call with them instead? If possible, maybe record the session so you can review their responses.

      I agree that you’re probably stuck if you’re not their manager.

      1. This Old House*

        Nope, not their manager. I personally process information much better when it’s in writing, so getting info via a call is a lot harder for me, but maybe recording it would be helpful.

    3. Kathenus*

      Some people seem unfixable with this, but for those where there’s hope, one strategy that’s helped has been numbered questions:

      Email example
      Hi Soandso,

      I’m putting together the llama report for last month and need some information, would you please send me the following:
      1) number of llamas in our collection as of 1 September 2021
      2) number of llama programs conducted in August 2021
      3) number of people who attended llama programs in August 2021

      It STILL doesn’t always work for everyone, but can help some to give them a lot more framework for what exactly you need.

  75. Newbie*

    Can you negotiate your first job offer? My friend has been working for the same company since January, first as an intern then beginning in May as a full-time but hourly wage Fellow. She has had conservations with her boss and it seems likely that before her contract ends in a couple months that she might get an offer to join the staff and be paid a yearly salary. This would be her first “real” job post college – would it be unwise for her to negotiate the salary? Similar positions in the company have listed salary ranges and she’s hopping to make the higher end of the range if possible. If it’s important, she did negotiate her hourly wage for her fellowship after multiple colleagues told her she should.

    1. MT*

      Yeah, absolutely. It doesn’t hurt to try. As long as her counter offer is not completely outlandish ie demanding at least $150k when the range is $50-80k, the worst they can say is no. Saying no does not make the job offer go away (crazy one-off stories on this site, notwithstanding)

    2. Kathenus*

      I think she can try but within reason. If it’s her first ‘real’ job post college, expecting to be at the higher end of the range is not really realistic in most cases, so asking for it may seem out of touch. So I think trying, for sure, but not sure if high end of the range as an entry level employee is the right expectation.

    3. AnotherLibrarian*

      Yes, she can and should try. Just be realistic (top the range is unlikely for an entry level person) and listen to the cues.

    4. Newbie*

      So the positions she’s seen the company post before have been entry level positions and ask for 1-3 year experience. Before working for this company, she had over 5 relevant internships (mix of part time and full time). If the range they give for the entry level position is 48k-55k what’s a realistic number for her to land on?

    5. star*

      If she’s proved herself through her previous/current experience with the company, it seems reasonable to ask for more than the bottom of the range – they are getting a known quantity, and somebody who already has some knowledge/experience into their entry level role!

  76. MT*

    This is a sorta weird question but how do you go about having a professional relationship with your manager without divulging personal information?

    For some background, I was warned against telling my manager any personal information about me though the reasons why are a little spotty. My guess is she has used it against other people in the past. But how do I keep our relationship surface level without being seen as an extremely private person who is a stick in the mud?

    I have rabbits and can talk a lot about them so that subject seems really neutral but I can only discuss my rabbits so much.

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      There are so many other small-talk things you can address that aren’t personal.

      Books, movies, music, TV, sports – just don’t go on and on about any one thing. If you have a particular niche interest (teen vampire novels, eg) that you really don’t want to discuss, then edit that out of your library for purposes of conversations with your manager.

      But also, turn the tables. When the manager gets a capuccino, ask her if she likes nutmeg or cinnamon. Has she tried non-dairy milks like soy, oat, coconut? What does she like best? etc.

    2. OneTwoThree*

      I’d say you can talk about personal things, but just keep it light. You have rabbits. NOT you love rabbits and dress them up. You went grocery shopping. NOT you only go to a specific grocery store because it’s where your cousin works.

      You can also try to direct the conversation where you speak a little about yourself and more about them. I have rabbits… Oh, that reminds me how is your dog after surgery? What did you say was wrong? Is that common? Do you like your vet?

    3. LQ*

      Having a couple of very neutral or positive things you talk about helps a lot. The way to hide stuff is misdirection. Talk about the rabbits, have like 3 things you proactively talk about and make them boring. I had someone at work after knowing me for about 7 years? Suddenly realize that they didn’t even know if I was married or dating. That was intentional. There were these large chunks of my life that people know nothing about but they feel like they know my sister because I talk about her frequently. They don’t actually know if I have any other siblings, they make assumptions. Same with a lot of things. Pick a few things, just never bring up the things you want to obfuscate.

    4. HigherEdAdminista*

      I think in these instances it can help to act pretty boring. Like if she asks you what you did on the weekend, you can say, “Oh I made a new soup recipe… it was a minestrone, but I don’t like kidney beans so I tried it with black beans and it gave it a sort of Southwestern flair. I think next time I might try it with pink beans and that will be a bit more traditional…” Basically going into detail about something very small gives you a chance to say something, while also appearing kind of uninteresting so she might eventually think you are just kind of dull and don’t have anything she can latch onto.

    5. American Job Venter*

      Another thing to do is to turn conversations around so the other person feels encouraged to tell you about themselves. Using the rabbits you can probably ask them about their experiences with rabbits, etc.

  77. SadFern*

    I have a situational question I’d love advice about from anyone that does hiring or has ever been in my position. My current job of nearly 4 years has really taken a turn lately and it’s not sustainable for me to continue working there for much longer as my mental health is on a very thin wire due to compounded work stress. I haven’t had much luck job hunting until recently, and I have an interview next week for an actual professional job with career potential that would really be amazing for me.

    I’m sure I’m overthinking it, but I would sell my current job for one corn chip, I’m so done. If I get asked when I could start, how can I phrase that it would be polite to give the customary 2 weeks notice to my current boss, but I’d absolutely be willing to start earlier? I’m worried that if I try to push a start date out too far I could miss out on an edge by maybe being the most convenient candidate, but I don’t want it to seem like it’s my personality to screw over my employer by being so eager to leave that I would quit on the spot. I absolutely would, I need out of here more than I care about burning that bridge, but I am worried about how I will come across.

    My current job is impacting me so much that I will likely quit whether or not I get this new job or have anything lined up, which is unfortunate, but I’m trying to ride it out in the hopes of a professional transition. Thanks for any and all advice

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Can you say something like:
      “I would normally give 2 weeks notice, but given the way my current position is going, I can probably start sooner.”

      There aren’t many situations where a difference in 1 week of availability is going to determine who gets a professional job – barring something like a severely short-handed restaurant kitchen, nursing home, etc.

    2. AnotherAlison*

      Honestly, I would stick with the 2 weeks in my response. If they are pushing for you to move faster, I see that as a red flag with the company and wouldn’t want to accommodate that. In a lot of companies, it’s hard to get everything together for a fast hire (laptop, paperwork, onboarding, etc.), other than if they’re doing some sort of mass hire and are set up for it.

      The only potential scenario where I would do otherwise is if your company makes people leave immediately when they give notice. If that’s true for you, you could say it up front, or you could just leave and tell the employer they made you leave so you’re actually now available earlier than you expected after the fact.

      IMO, once you have given notice, it’s a lot easier to ride out the 2 weeks than it is today when it sucks to be there, but definitely no more than 2 weeks notice. When I left my job, people were bugging me up to the last hour, and no one took advantage of the extra week I gave to get someone on board to transition my work (internal person to take on the project).

    3. LizB*

      I’d say if it’s possible, set a start date two weeks out, then quit your current job earlier and take a week off in between for your own health. I don’t think for most jobs that being available a single week earlier will give you an edge. Two-week notice is just so expected in the US that even if you are available immediately, many places won’t be ready to have you start on that timeline.

    4. (Not Usually) Indecisive*

      Hiring manager here! I recommend feeling them out first. If/when asked, you could throw out the standard two weeks answer and then float the question back to them. Something like “I had envisioned I would start two weeks after I give notice at my current job, but is there a different timeline you are looking for?”. Their answer could open the door to a shorter timeline or signal to you that they view two weeks notice very rigidly. That’s one option to let them lead the conversation. If you wanted to drive that a little harder, you could wait until you have an offer and bring it up then.

      1. Kathenus*

        I like this strategy, as it conforms to employment norms (two weeks) but opens the door to them bringing up if they have a different timeline in mind. I’d be concerned about offering less than two weeks outright, because it could be viewed negatively by new employer that you wouldn’t be giving current employer the pretty standard two week notice – so could be seen as a lack of professionalism which you really don’t want.

      2. AnotherLibrarian*

        Yes, I like this. I would be concerned if a candidate wanted less then two weeks, because I know it would mess with their current employer and that would make me uncomfortable. As the person hiring you, I don’t know how toxic your work is.

    5. PollyQ*

      I strongly urge you to give the standard 2 weeks notice for two reasons. First, even if you hate this current job, ending it professionally helps preserve your reputation, whereas leaving without the standard notice can put a real dent in whatever positive view people have of you. Final impressions can be as important as first impressions.

      Second, as you noted, not all employers would be please to hear you’d leave without notice. They’d be a little worried that you might leave them without notice, too, or might have trouble following other professional norms. Also, in most cases, a good empoyer isn’t looking for the “most convenient” applicant or the one that can get started the soonest, they’re looking for the one that will do the job best going forward. And a 2 week wait is not going to be called “too far.”

      That said, if your current job is taking that much of a toll on you, then for your mental health, maybe you should just quit now (although even there, I’d recommend trying to give some notice, even if it’s just a week).

    6. Llellayena*

      I’d say tell them the traditional 2 weeks notice thing because it reassures them that you won’t skip out on THEM with no notice when/if the time comes. However, there’s no reason you have to actually give 2 weeks notice at your current job if you’re not worried about bridge burning and don’t need the one paycheck. Give immediate notice and take a 2 week vacation before starting the next job! :)

  78. (Not Usually) Indecisive*

    Yes! This is my first time commenting after being a reader for 10+ years and the fact that today is open thread day is like manna from Heaven. So, I am hiring for a position and I have tentative management approval to hire for a second position. I have one stellar candidate I know we want to hire and a second candidate I am on the fence about. I am typically very decisive so I am stumped on whether or not to hire this candidate. So, my question is this: Hiring managers, have you hired a candidate you were on the fence about and how did it turn out?

    1. Lunch Eating Mid Manager*

      Obviously a lot depends on the individuals and what about them makes you on the fence. I have done this twice in the last year. The one who was on the bubble due to lack of some technical skills has worked out great. Good people skills and a quick study has gone a long way to make them a valuable employee even though they’re still ramping up on the knowledge piece. The other one who I was on the fence about due to questions about tone/professional norms, despite having relevant experience and technical knowlege, I am still on the fence about 3 months into their tenure. Those deficiencies that we saw in the interview on the soft skills side have persisted in the actual role.
      YMMV.

      1. winter*

        Oh yes, this is a good point as well. If the person shows ability to learn quickly/self-directed, a lack of knowledge is often much less of an issue than social issues/harder to teach skills, like writing concisely.

    2. callmeheavenly*

      I ignored several red flags when hiring someone, because they could all be explained away, she had the right level of experience, I called all her references with positive results, and I thought she needed the job.

      Worst. Decision. Ever. I have been BEC with this girl since day one. If you have any reservations, hold off and advertise again later.

    3. Kathenus*

      I agree with Lunch Eating Mid Manager that someone with good people skills who you have on the fence is generally a much safer bet than the great technician that you have concerns about interpersonally. And can relate to callmeheavenly’s experiences with ignoring red flags at your peril. To add to these great insights, I go to your own description – “I am typically very decisive” Only you can say for sure but to me that says that this candidate might not be right for you.

      The additional advice is a strategy I’ve used in the past, figure out what your concerns are and have a conversation with the candidate directly about this specific topic. If you’re at a point of either letting them go or feeling a lack of confidence if you did hire them, that frank discussion can sometimes lead the information you need to fall on one side or the other.

    4. Rusty Shackelford*

      I’m not a manager, but I want to point out that technical skills can usually be taught. Soft skills are harder. So it depends on why you’re on the fence about this candidate.

    5. PollyQ*

      Do you have the opportunity to keep looking for candidates for the 2nd position? I’d try hard to make that happen before hiring someone I’m only lukewarm about.

    6. winter*

      Bad. It turned out bad. Several people were part of the decision and we all said “Eh, let’s try it I guess”. That was not a good sign. I had to let him go less than 4 months into the job.

      When I’m hiring I am really trying to think about the long term. Better to invest in a longer search and have a rock-solid candidate than take the “Eh, good enough” person. Because even if that person doesn’t become a problem, “good enough” may not really be fun to have in your team.

      On the other hand, if a candidate that looked stellar turns out worse, there is still a good chance they will end up good or at least mediocre. That’s not great, but still better than having to let them go.

  79. SaraV*

    What questions should one ask oneself to determine whether or not it’s time to move on from a job, whether moving within the company or outside the company? I’m feeling a little itchy to move on to something else, but not sure how much credence I should put towards that itchiness.

    Thanks in advance!

    1. The Smiling Pug*

      In terms of “itchiness,” try looking at positions inside and outside your current company. Evaluating “itchiness” by reading through descriptions, availability pay etc. might be one way of addressing this.

    2. Daughter of Ada and Grace*

      I once heard the suggestion to ask yourself these three questions when deciding if it’s time to move on or not: “Do I like what I’m doing? Do I like who I’m working with? Am I learning something?” If you answer NO to two or three of them, it’s probably time to start looking.

    3. Kathenus*

      I’m a big fan of pros and cons lists for big decisions like this, and then ranking the importance of each of these to figure out which way the scales are tipping to help decide.

    4. ecnaseener*

      Following to see what other advice people have :) I’m a little over 2 years into my first post-college job, and I’m reasonably happy but definitely itchy. L

      (Part of the problem is I keep reading all the great job hunting advice on AAM and a little voice in my head goes “oooh job hunting, that sounds fun…”)

  80. Lady Perogie*

    Good Morning, I’m looking for advice from all the calendar managers and EAs in the group.

    I started as the Executive Assistant to the CEO of a software development Start Up in August. I’ve been here for a month and a half and I am just loving it. However, I’ve never worked as an EA before and I was wondering if anyone could offer me some advice, tips, tricks for managing a CEOs very busy calendar, and other things I should be aware of and helping a start up be the best they can be.

    1. Ginger Baker*

      Some random suggestions:

      I’m a big fan of color coding (using categories in Outlook, but I am sure you can do it in other programs as well). BossMan and I have a specific color he can flag YES MUST ATTEND items, which is very useful.

      Make sure the meeting subject line is always clear to all attendees (and for cross-time-zone calls, include the start times in the subject line “5pmET/2pmPT” for ease of reference). (I add this because I have seen people send meeting invites that say, for instance, “Call with BossMan” – which is clear for Alex who sent the invite, but of course not at all clear for other people. I default to “Call – Alex/MossMan” if I don’t know the topic.)

      Try to coordinate with other EAs where possible to avoid swamping folks’ inboxes. I find it best to offer up three available time slots (ideally ones I checked the planner tab and saw are free for all if it’s with internal attendees) and add a line like “if none of these options work, let’s look at times next week”. If the emails start to multiply, I cannot emphasize this enough, PICK UP THE PHONE and just call the admin. So so much easier than 15 emails to set one 30-minute call.

      Make sure to leave time for travel, but also, for calls to run over if you can. Also, if the call is using your exec’s dial-in make sure to NOT have any back to back (ask for someone else’s dial-in to use for one) so you don’t risk overlapping calls on the line. (On the dial-in info, save it to a signature for much easier meeting invite sending!)

      Pull up a list from google of major religious holidays and put them at least on your own calendar so you don’t accidentally try to schedule a call on Yom Kippur. For that matter, make sure you add in any company-wise days off – your CEO may actually work on those days but might need the reminder that others will not be so available. (I generally put my time off on the calendar also, but it depends – for a random single day, I might not bother.)

      I find it very helpful to scan through the calendar at least once a week and look for things like conflicting meetings or items clearly needing some follow-up (like a meeting “Lunch with Client” that does not have a restaurant listed – does this need a reservation?) and then review (via phone or in person if possible, otherwise just major items via email) with your Exec (once a week or every two weeks, whatever you can manage). (And if you see meetings that you know your CEO needs certain reports prepped for etc., definitely get ahead on that! Incl. following up with others who need to provide those reports, etc. as needed.)

      I find worldtimeserver to be helpful for figuring out compatible meeting times across time zones, though there are a number of similar websites.

      If you mark out time on the calendar the exec to work on specific projects, put as much as you can in the appointment body (I usually include whatever email thread is related and then attach any word docs etc. as files) to make it as easy as possible. And don’t forget to also block time off for catch-up meetings/calls with you! (I keep a list of “Things Requiring BossMan Action” [which sometimes includes calls to return] and things stay on that list until I clear them as having been done and review the list with him frequently, often staying on the phone with him for however long it takes him to do [thing].)

      1. Lady Perogie*

        Thank you so much, Ginger. It seems I’m on the right track and have actually already implemented most of these. My Professor LOVES how I colour code things. (Hold times in the calendar when I’ve offered time to someone and Red for in-person meetings because they are such an anomaly with Covid lol) I do need to get better about subject lines. Generally, the Professor just wants the email subject and I add the people.

        I don’t need to worry about time with my Professor. He insists on Morning and Afternoon check-ins everyday. I’m his first EA and prior to my joining the company, he was doing ALL the admin tasks on top of his CEO tasks. He’s definitely a dig in and get it done Boss and is having trouble letting go and delegating. He doesn’t micromanage though. He just wants to make sure he stays available for questions and to be a support. I end up doing a lot of, “I can take care of that for you” and I’m getting a “that’s a load off” sigh and about a a 70% success rate as I take more …so far.

    2. Current EA*

      I agree with Ginger Baker on everything they mentioned! To add on, as an EA I personally view myself as my boss’s business partner. Yes I manage their calendar, but I am also keeping my eyes and ears to the ground to anticipate things before they come up. I frequently meet with my boss’s directs to understand their business, since I don’t have a background in my team’s specialty. When I meet with my boss, I don’t just ask about meeting conflicts, but also their priorities for the next week, month, etc. This is so when I get a meeting request, I am able to schedule accordingly and be able to act completely independently.

    3. Neosmom*

      I had a boss who wanted to focus on the meeting happening now and would not look at a clock to wrap things up for the next item on their calendar. So about 3 minutes before the meeting was scheduled to end, they asked me to tap on their door (if closed) or catch their eye about 3 minutes before the ending time and let them know their time was running short. I don’t work for them any more, but this strategy worked for them.

  81. Bewildered by Boohoos*

    Does anyone have advice for your manager crying and telling you how much they hate their job? I feel like I’m at my wits end and I don’t know how to deal with it without negatively impacting my relationship with her. We share a tiny office so I can’t just leave.

    1. Colette*

      I think you have two choices.
      1) Ask her to keep it down. “Your crying is distracting, do you mind stepping outside?” “I understand that you hate your job, but it’s negatively affecting me to hear you complain about it. Can we cut out that kind of talk?”

      2) Go to her manager and ask for advice. “Manager is often crying and complaining that she hates her job, and it’s distracting for me. Do you have any suggestions on how I should handle it?”

      2. Bewildered by Boohoos*

        I’d do #2 but her manager is the grandboss of the entire organization, so it feels like really escalating the situation.

        As for #1, we’re a public building with a fair amount of foot traffic, so asking her to step into the hall wouldn’t work even if I was able to ask that!

        1. WellRed*

          In the short term, can you say something like “I’m going to step out for five minutes to let you collect yourself (or whatever you’re comfortable with.” Then, take a quick break out if the space. It kind of puts her on notice that she’s being disruptive without you actually having to say it,

          1. ecnaseener*

            Yeah, I think this is the kindest option that doesn’t involve you comforting her (which, don’t do that, keep your boundaries)

          2. Bewildered by Boohoos*

            Sorry for the late reply, it was ttrpg night!
            That’s actually a great idea! It serves the secondary purpose of getting me up and moving to. Thank you!!!

    2. Zweisatz*

      The only other thing that comes to mind other than the mentioned is to carefully suggest EAP, if your company offers it. “that sounds tough, maybe x can help”. And then probably redirect to work/excuse yourself to do work thing.

      1. Bewildered by Boohoos*

        I don’t believe we have an EAP program, sadly.

        I’ll try to be better about redirecting moving forward though! Its just hard when she’s actually sobbing and my instant reaction is to try to comfort her.

        1. Zweisatz*

          Ugh, that does sound tough, as much as it makes sense to have sympathy with her. I like WellRed’s suggestion for that.

  82. MicrobioChic*

    Okay so I just passed my defense and am in the process of wrapping up my time at grad school and trying to get a job. I am in the very lucky position of being in the interview process for 3 places right now. Lucky for me, the job market for what I do is pretty great in my area right now. So based on that, I want to know what kind of red flags I should look out for during the interview process for a place being toxic or not a good fit.

    Thoughts?

    1. Alex*

      Pay attention to how you are treated during the interview process. Are they respectful of your time? Are they aware that you are evaluating them as well as them evaluating you? Are they being transparent or are they trying to play games with you?

      Also pay attention to how they seem to relate to each other. Do people seem happy to be there? I once had an interviewer scream at her direct report right before the interview started. Yeah I noped out of that one!

    3. bookcase*

      Watch out for places that are cagey about basic details like salary, hours, dress code, benefits and so on. These things should be clearly stated early in a discussion

    4. AnotherAlison*

      This is something I’ve been giving a lot of thought to lately as I job search again because I took a job this year that is not a fit. Not a good fit can be a bit subjective, but things at my company that I hate & wish I knew:

      1. Family owned? I work for a company with 3,000 people, but it’s run by the majority owner/CEO and his inner circle. His son has a key role, which I knew. What I didn’t know was his unqualified brother-in-law also runs a division. There are a bunch of other family members, and people in key roles who the son of Dick-the-30-year-retiree. Those people make all the decisions. A lot of them have never worked anywhere else. What happens is every idea they have gets tried even though you could show them a pile of case studies on why that approach isn’t going to work. They will chase anything for 6 months and then it’s onto their next idea. They’ve hired a bunch of expensive people with expertise in certain areas, but they don’t use us.

      2. Don’t be blind to the faults of the person who will be your manager. My manager is a “high ‘I'” on the DISC profile (and yep, had to take the DISC profile), so they are very friendly and I liked them initially. We share a similar background, and I think I didn’t see around that to how they really are.

      3. Read glassdoor and believe it. If it’s “the benefits suck,” but they’re okay for you, fine. If the CEO rating is poor and high turnover is reported, there’s probably some fire to go with the smoke and I’d stay away.

      1. MicrobioChic*

        Yeah, one of the places had Glassdoor reviews mentioning it doesn’t really have a full HR department. The specific complaints were lack of help navigating benefits, as opposed to issues with toxic managers where there is no one to handle it (like we see a lot on this site) but it does make me a little nervous.

        Unfortunately, that is the job I’m most excited about in terms of what I would actually be doing.

    5. AnotherLibrarian*

      Pay attention to the whole interview process. Likely, they will be on their best behavior then, so small things can be telling. See how upfront and straight forward they are. Look at how people seem to interact with each other. Lastly, I would say listen for concrete answers to questions. I once interviewed at a place where they were going to fix all their problems with “innovation and collaboration”, but never gave a concrete example. I still don’t know what that meant.

  83. MissBliss*

    I was hired at the top of my salary range. So was my coworker, same range. My coworker has since left and they have reposted that position. The salary range has changed to something like +5 to +15 what the range was when my and my coworker’s positions were posted. I am anticipating a COLA that would probably take me to the bottom of that range, but the idea of being at the bottom of this range now irritates me as my position, while peer to the currently advertised position, accomplishes more toward our departmental goals. I know that there is some talk about doing more than COLA for some positions but I don’t know which ones. Next year’s budget will be finalized before the end of this month. Should I ask for a raise, or wait to see what happens? My annual review won’t happen until January.

      1. MissBliss*

        I don’t want that position. We’re on the same level and do similar work but with different audiences.

    3. Kathenus*

      I’d definitely broach this during the budgeting process. Might be worth talking to your manager and saying something like – you see from x posting that the salary range for this and your position has changed since you were hired, and that were at the (first quartile/midpoint/last quartile) of the old range so could she please see about including an increase of $y in the upcoming budget to keep you at that point in the new salary range? So you’re asking for a salary adjustment to keep you commensurate with the new range from where you were in the old range, versus a raise (which tends to be either COL or merit). Possible benefits of this approach are trying to illustrate that the salary adjustment should be normal business practice to keep you at the same point in the range (hopefully) and – but without saying it outright – that a salary adjustment shouldn’t preclude you still getting any deserved raises on the normal cycle.

      1. MissBliss*

        That’s an interesting approach, thank you Kathenus! I like how you differentiate between salary adjustment and raises. I would be shocked (and amazed!) if they were willing to adjust my salary to put me in the point in the range, just because I was hired at the very top of my salary band. For them to adjust my salary that much would be a life-changing amount of money for me. I’m really hoping to be at least in the midpoint for the new range (which would still be life improving money!).

  84. Zweisatz*

    How have you found your next job in the past? Especially when you were a little done with your current niche?

    I’m looking to find something that isn’t the same old in the next months while of course still needing to find something that I can do with my current skill set.

    How have y’all landed on jobs where you took your skills with you, but the job title changed or the industry? (I’m in tech and I have the kind of job that might be needed in different industries)

  85. Pinky Sally*

    Is it possible to major in computer science without being good at math? Is there anyone who has majored in CS successfully but maybe struggled a bit in the required math classes?

    1. TM*

      I’m not sure exactly but I got an engineering degree without being particularly good at math. In the real world, you don’t use the math component all that often and when you do, it is so repetitive you memorize it.

    2. Alex*

      Computer science isn’t really about math at all. You sometimes work with math, but more like “write a program to carry out this math task” rather than “figure out this math task.”

      Disclaimer: I don’t have a degree in CS but have taken several graduate level CS classes.

      And I failed math in high school :)

    3. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      What’s the part of math that you had trouble in?

      Things like trig and calculus aren’t much needed in CS unless you go into things like finite element analysis or modeling. Formal logic, on the other hand, is very important.

    4. Colette*

      Math really isn’t a part of computer science, but logic is. As long as you can think logically, you’d be fine at computer science. Computers are entirely logical, so you need to be able to speak their language.

      For the record, I did a double major in Math and Computer Science, so I didn’t struggle with math in general (unless it had the words “abstract” or “analysis” in the course title).

    5. Daughter of Ada and Grace*

      Unless I’m specifically tasked with writing something to solve a math problem, I don’t generally have to use any math beyond formal (boolean) logic. And I know people who learned formal logic from philosophy classes.

      The one exception is sometimes certain pieces of CSS styling will require you to calculate widths/heights/relative positions. Pretty much all arithmetic, so if you struggle with that then front end web development is probably not for you.

      My degree is in Information Technology, and I only had to take Statistics and Discrete Math (formal logic) for the degree. That said, my degree was much more geared towards practical application rather than underlying theory.

    6. Pinky Sally*

      Thank you for the replies! Honestly I’m a little worried about my son. The degree requires math 1210 & 1220 (calc 1 &2) and 2270 (linear algebra). He’s currently taking 1080, a combo of algebra & trig as a 5 credit hour class in one semester to even be eligible for the 1210. He barely has a B- and hasn’t even taken the first exam yet. It’s just funny because he wants to major in CS soooo much, but his strengths are reading & writing & he is a bit weak in math & science. Anyway….. I really appreciate hearing about other’s experiences and was honestly just curious.

      1. Anonymous Koala*

        A lot of schools offer free peer tutoring for students, especially in intro courses like algebra and trig.

      2. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

        Ah. OK, here’s something very important.

        Math, CS, and Engineering are, for the most part, cumulative disciplines. You can’t learn one thing until you’ve learned and mastered another. Literature, history, etc are, in general, not cumulative – you can be perfectly competent in 19th century East Asian history without knowing much at all about medieval European history. Ditto 20th century American literature vs. Beowulf and other early/middle English works. Sure, there are influences and threads, but they aren’t make-or-break the way calculus depends on algebra and trig depends on geometry.

        What I’ve seen in many, many cases – as a classmate, tutor, instructor, and manager – is that the problem people have learning cumulative disciplines is that they don’t truly master one thing before going on to the next. They know arithmetic, but can’t do it quickly and confidently enough to pay attention to the algebra. They know algebra, but can’t do it quickly and confidently enough to pay attention to the calculus. So they end up struggling on timed tests, and there are critical gaps in their knowledge where they were too busy figuring out the algebra steps to learn the subtleties of calculus.

        For CS, if you aren’t fluent at understanding how to do loops and index arrays, then higher-order concepts like iterating through a tree structure, or handling sets of complex objects, are going to be very hard to follow.

        So you and your son need to figure out if his math issues are due to just not liking math, or if they are a matter of mastery, speed, habit, etc. The good news is that you can improve mastery just by devoting time to basic drills. Get him fast, confident, and accurate at arithmetic so he can free up space in his brain to pay attention to the algebra.

        1. AnotherAlison*

          What ABET is saying is VERY important. Degree’ Mech engineer here. I had a hard time with a particular concept in physics, and it bit me in 3 more classes before I finished my degree. If he has a great enough interest, but for whatever reason has a shaky foundation, retake those classes and firm up the foundation before moving on. But also keep in mind sometimes a college B- in the EECS world is not bad. He might be fine.

          All that said, I might try to suss out a little more behind the career interest. We normally don’t like what we aren’t good at. Is he interested for the money and opportunity or really want to be involved in that work day to day, producing those types of outcomes? My 24 y.o. is doing something now that he CLEARLY is not wired for (he’s an electrician, pun intended). He’s following his dad into his business. It’s painful to watch, but he wants to do it. His degree is in business plus one year of electrical training, and he makes a ton of mistakes and doesn’t have that visualization capability of how something is supposed to work. I could see your son getting a degree and ending up there if his way of thinking doesn’t match up with the usual CS person.

          1. Pinky Sally*

            Thank you for this! Yes, his foundation is probably shaky. He is the type of person that can learn the material, pass the test, but then does not retain it! So he always got A’s in math classes, but then didn’t do very well on standardized tests. I think he wants to do computer science for the programming. He was able to take two college concurrent classes in HS and really enjoyed them and loves to code small games. I will share this info. with him & advise as best as I can, but then he’ll just have to figure it out! Which, a whole other problem, learning to parent/not parent an 18yr. old!

            2. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

              Aha! And college math is at a whole different pace than high school.

              Knew a guy in college who thought his HS honors calculus class was really good, and convinced the admissions people to let him skip the first semester of college calculus (a calculus class specifically targeted to engineers). Huge mistake. By the time he realized he was failing the second-semester class, it was too late to get back into the first-semester classes, and he ended up basically losing an entire year, what with missing the prerequisites for physics II, intro engineering classes, etc.

              Tell your son to knuckle down – college is hard – and good luck to him! And take advantage of free tutoring that the student chapters of the professional societies offer (like ACM).

              1. Pinky Sally*

                Thank you, and I will tell him! The college does offer free math tutoring so I will strongly recommend that he takes advantage of it.

                1. fueled by coffee*

                  In addition to tutoring, I’d also recommend that he touch base with the professor or a TA in office hours. Lots of college students don’t really know what office hours are for or feel awkward about meeting one-on-one with a professor, but it’s a great opportunity to stop by to check in on course progress and get feedback on areas to improve (and most professors love talking to students! It also helps to make a more personal connection to a professor that you wouldn’t necessarily get otherwise in large lecture courses). For a math class, you might ask questions like:

                  -Is there a pattern with my wrong answers on this homework assignment, or are there multiple concepts that I seem to be missing?
                  -I keep having trouble with problems like X. Would you be able to explain concepts Y & Z to me again so that I can do better on X?
                  -Do you have any resources or tips for practicing X on my own?

                  More generally, how does he feel about his CS classes? If CS is something he loves, and he just needs to get through these math classes, it’s probably worth it to do tough it out in math so he can pursue his passion. But if he isn’t finding his CS classes as exciting as the ones he took as a high school student, or if he’s struggling there, too, that would be more of a sign to consider a change in major.

                  There are also, I think, other intermediate options: for example, pairing a CS minor with a major that’s more aligned with his writing/reading-focused skillset or looking into adjacent fields like computational social sciences (I’m thinking things like cognitive science) that might require less formal math (though they possibly involve statistics) but can still let him take the computer science classes he enjoys.

                  Oh, and finally — you said he was pulling a B- in his math class. Does he have access to the class average? While that might feel like a low grade to someone who was a high-achieving high schooler, it wouldn’t surprise me if the average in a large intro math course was something around 80%. He could definitely still benefit from tutoring or other help, but I think it’s worth figuring out if he’s struggling or just not excelling.

              2. The Plodder*

                Yeah a lot of my HS classmates tested-for-credit out of Calc 1 and 2, and were placed in honors Calc 3 as Uni freshmen. BIG mistake! They were sooo behind the power curve it wasn’t even funny. I did the bog-standard Calc 1, 2, and 3 sequence, and was just fine, TYVM!

            3. AnotherAlison*

              Re: Parenting. I have found what they figure out on their own is a lot more valuable than what I tell them. My younger one is a HS senior and a real hard head. He told me how it wasn’t worth trying to get As and high test scores because he’s going to be a mechanic and start his own performance shop. I said it is better to have more options. Good grades don’t force you to go to a 4-year college. Something unthinkable happened to his friend, and he was rethinking if he even wanted to build cars and mentioned how he always thought about being a tech teacher. (Internally saying “SEE! More options.” but saying nothing because of the situation.) He has since returned to the car thing, but it’s so frustating to parent a teenager. Good luck to both of us!

        2. Imtheone*

          Very true! I also teach and tutor math, and this comes up all of the time. You can also get a tutor to focus on basic math to go along with a subject matter tutor.

      3. Person from the Resume*

        Computer Science i.e, writing software code (if that’s have you define CS) doesn’t require math. The degree programs do/did. I graduated 30 years ago and sometime after I graduated my school dropped the Calc 3 requirement which would have been helpful to me before I graduated. At least I got to take Linear Algebra rather than differential equations i.e Calc 4 (which the engineers needed to take). Although what I really struggled with is Calc 1.

        So many people write computer code now without a CS degree. I’d look into what he really wants to do with computer science in addition to encouraging him to really learn the math because he needs to get through 3 more math classes.

        What ABET said is true. I like general physics theory but struggled in Physics class because I didn’t have the calc background. You could take the classes simultaneously but I was failing (not studying enough) and dropped Calc1 and then couldn’t do the math for the physics problems.

        Now I think I could learn Calc (even teach myself with my old textbook and online learning) but as a teenage college student I had poor time management and poor study habits especially for least uninteresting math classes. but then I remind myself I do not need to use calculus in my life at all and so other things so it would be a dumb challenge to try to learn it now.

        1. The Plodder*

          For my engineering BS, Calc 1, 2, and 3 were followed by an ordinary DEs class, but ODEs weren’t considered part of the Calc series. Then we were off to partial DEs, matrix maths, the eigens, etc. Ah the good old days!

    7. CanadianUniversityGrad*

      I have a Bachelor’s degree in computer science. I will say that I did take a lot of math, but it depends on the program and where you want to end up. In first year, I did a full year of calculus. In second year, I took calculus and two courses of linear algebra. I also took 2 logic courses. I also took Statistics. I almost had the requirements for a Math Minor ( I was missing one course).

    8. Zweisatz*

      Yes, it’s possible. Make sure to use the learning opportunities provided/study in groups and then it should work out, though maybe not in the first try. But passing the exam in second or third try is still passed…

      In my experience, the compulsory math classes are in the beginning so at least you won’t study for years and then not pass because of math, but know in the beginning if you can do it.

    10. different user name*

      So, I’m about 20 years out of college, but I was definitely behind in math when I tried to go to college in computer science and it kind of worked out and kind of didn’t.

      For various reasons, my k-12 schooling was kind of disaster, and, looking back on it, there wasn’t a single year when I wasn’t pulled out regularly for at least one special program that meant I missed instruction and I also never got to take a “regular” math class with a dedicated period of the day and only that class being taught by that teacher at the time (rather than students in multiple math classes in the room during the same period all trying to learn out of different textbooks) after 6th grade. I have always tested very well on standardized tests, so I saw myself as someone who didn’t like math but generally no one worried about whether I learned any because I always did well on standardized tests and was clearly “smart” in conversation. Plus, it was the 90s, I was “good at computers”, and so everyone assumed I’d computer at things for a living and was clearly on a path to a well-paying job where I’d be the one who could work the mysterious computer.

      Being 16 when picking a college and given little direction by anyone, I ended up at a school where computer science was part of the math department. I didn’t even know what questions to ask or that this was something that might happen. I’d previously planned on not taking any math classes in college because my mother said she’d been able to get out of them by taking philosophy-department logic classes instead back when she was in college. It turned out that (a) this was no longer a thing and (b) even if it had been, it wasn’t a thing that was going to work if your college major had the word “math” in it and was located in the math department.

      After an extremely rocky start that involved withdrawing from pre-calc three times, I eventually really liked math classes once I hit the majors-only proof-based ones like discrete math and abstract algebra. I’d somehow never grasped that the various math rules had logical reasons behind them and fit into a logical system. I taught myself middle/high school algebra by reverse engineering it during abstract algebra, basically.

      I even went to graduate school in computer science after undergrad, but burned out before finishing and realized that I didn’t really want to do research since it didn’t involve enough interaction with other people and talking.

      So, it can be done, but it’s hard and you have to be really persistent. My advisor was constantly baffled by me because he could tell that I was smart but basically feral. (He didn’t originally see the “smart” part, since I was missing a lot of basic building blocks, but he came around after dealing with me in classes.)

    11. TimesChange*

      Yes? I’m a coder and I only use basic math in my day job. Like, figuring out how long something took. Making sure I’m using seconds/milliseconds/etc correctly.

      As far as majoring, I did have to take 2 semesters of calculus, but I was actually taking it for a second time. I did calculus in HS and hated it and barely understood what I was doing. I took it again as my math requirement and…it made so much more sense. I don’t know if it was the second time around or the professor or some combination of both, but it was way less terrible the second time around. Most schools post the classes needed, so review their requirements. My HS calculus class was an AP class, so I can’t remember if that got me out of needing more than 2 semesters of math. But that was 20 years ago, so not sure what students need now.

      If the math is dragging you down too much, absolutely look for a math tutor. Our school paid upperclass students to tutor in their subject. It was free to take the tutoring.

  86. KT*

    I’ve got a question from a friend that I’m not sure how to answer her. So she doesn’t like Christmas. The reasons are varied and she realizes that she cannot ban Christmas talk unless it is Dec 25th every year but her coworkers really love to talk about it from now until, well Christmas. It’s just overwhelming to hear about it for 3+ months.

    How should she go about getting other people to not talk about Christmas? She’s pretty reserved and she’s afraid of being othered if she went directly to each person and told them that it upset her but it’s beginning to be a lot. Can she ask a lead worker to send something out asking people to keep a lid on it until more seasonally appropriate?

    1. Unkempt Flatware*

      No! You cannot walk up to other adults and tell them to stop talking about [random innocuous topic]. You can ask them to speak more quietly because you’re working. You can ask them to wear headphones while listening to music of any season. You can ask them not to bring up offensive conversations. You can ask them not to curse when speaking to you. You CANNOT tell them to stop talking about Christmas.

      1. Pascall*

        Agreed. People have license to talk about whatever topic they want, as long as it’s not inappropriate for the office setting and as long as it’s not disturbing anyone’s work. Now, if they’re talking loudly near her desk to the point where she can’t concentrate, no matter the topic, then she can ask them to politely keep it down. But to just ask them to not talk about Christmas (or any holiday, for that matter), is overstepping.

        Recommend asking her supervisor if she can wear headphones and slip them in whenever the conversation veers towards Christmas.

        1. TM*

          Thanks, I will let her know! Sometimes her anxiety takes over the rational part of her brain. I was thinking no, you can’t really ban christmas talk but yeah, I think if she can do something so she doesn’t have to listen to them, her issue goes away.

    2. LizB*

      I sympathize with your friend as a fellow Christmas-disliker, but there’s really no way to ask people to keep a lid on a generally innocuous topic like this. I just do my best to tune out of or avoid conversations that turn this way, and make a point of starting conversations about other topics if I have to make small talk.

    3. bookcase*

      Why is everyone so precious these days? It’s like a parade of ‘I’m special’

      I say that as a person with a disability.

      People need to get over themselves. I am sorry you can’t hear people chew, don’t like Christmas, are offended by pronouns, want your co worker to never mention their pregnancy and need you time to process a color scheme change because you have colorphobia.

      Try just a little to bend. I managed to find a job that suits me without forcing everyone around me to make massive changes.

      1. Unkempt Flatware*

        Uh…wait a second. The pregnancy thing can be very real. I think people who suffered recent losses (or maybe even not so recent) can reasonably ask their neighbor if they wouldn’t mind curbing baby talk (and I do mean ask, not telling or banning as this OP mentioned). Pronouns? I hope you mean the people who are complaining about having to care about and use the correct pronouns for their coworkers–not the people who are trying to get the basic respect of having their own pronouns honored. Let’s ease off on the Precious and Special labels. This OP wrote in to see if their thought process was reasonable. They don’t need to be labeled.

        1. bookcase*

          Asking someone not to lay it on thick about babies or whatever is fine. But some precious people seem to think they can alter the entire world around them and that everyone needs to change to suit them and their needs.

          People do need to be labeled. People need to be told they are unreasonable. If you live in a Western country then too bad Christmas season happens. I have plenty of things in my country I don’t like but they are common and part of the national fabric and that’s life.

          Part of living in a society is accepting it’s not all about you. People who place their needs on the highest plane often do need to be told to tone it down.

          I am in favour of accommodations, of being kind, or being sensitive. But since maybe the pandemic started some people have gotten out of control with their demands that everyone fit around them and their niche needs.

          1. Bayta Darrell*

            Have you ever stopped to consider that maybe some things *do* need to change in order to show courtesy and respect and basic human dignity to others? After all, it was once considered okay for white people to use the N word, and we have definitely decided that as a society that is no longer acceptable. There are words that refer to people who are disabled or LGBTQ that we also no longer use out of respect. Part of living in a society is realizing that it’s not all about you, and so just because you don’t see a particular word or phrase as disrespectful or dehumanizing doesn’t mean everyone feels the same. It is a minor inconvenience at best to change the pronouns you use about a person or to be mindful that they may have fertility struggles or losses, and it’s something we all can do to help our fellow humans.

      2. TM*

        Yeahhhh, work is stressful enough and she’s looking for a way to avoid *looks at calendar* 3 months of Christmas talk. She’s definitely had times in her life where she practiced avoidance when she should have been more straight forward (she should have asked our neighbors to turn down their techno heavy bass music instead of trying to use earplugs to sleep) so I get why she reached out and asked what to do. I’ll let her know she should check into headphones with supervisor approval.

        2. Tuesday*

          I think I can see where your friend is coming from. When people are trying to get into the habit of speaking up for themselves, it can be hard to know when to say something (like when the neighbor’s music is too loud) and when you have to deal with it yourself (like putting on headphones when the Christmas talk is going on). She might be just trying to figure that out.

    4. Colette*

      I think it would be reasonable for her to say something like “Hey, I’m not ready to think about Christmas yet” or “Do you mind if we move on from the Christmas talk? It sresses me out?”

      But going to a supervisor/lead would be out of line. There are plenty of discussions I don’t want to hear in the office; that doesn’t mean they should be banned. She needs to use her words.

      1. bookcase*

        Is even that reasonable? To tell people Christmas stressed you out so people should change the subject?

        There are plenty of cultural events in my country that are annoying or bother me. It’s just life.

        The solution isn’t to tell people to change the subject on something super normal in society, it is to see a therapist to learn some internal coping techniques. I say that as a person who goes to therapy with a goal of trying to fit in somewhat and cope with the world around me, not bend it to my will. My starting point is I want to hold down my job without being too much of a hassle. Because the next step down for me is a supported role and I don’t want that.

        1. Colette*

          Absolutely it’s reasonable. They can still discuss it, just not around KT’s friend. And it’s September; I don’t want to talk about Christmas, either.

    5. Rusty Shackelford*

      Yeah, she’s definitely asking to be othered.

      I wonder what would happen if she waited until someone brought it up with *her* and she said something like “Oh, I don’t like to think about Christmas, it’s a sad time for me.” I wonder if people would assume she has a Christmas-related tragedy and leave her alone?

      1. bookcase*

        I think it is fine to say in direct conversation that you’re not a huge fan of Christmas, so that people won’t have one on one’s with you. It’s just like saying you’re not into sport if someone mentions the Super Bowl upcoming.

        But you can’t control general chatter or cheer around you. These days we’ve all been through traumas and sometimes we just have cope. I see stuff often that upsets me but I can’t remake the whole world, I can just learn to live in it.

        1. Rusty Shackelford*

          Oh, yes, it’s definitely going to happen around her. But if she gets a reputation as someone with a Tragic Christmas Past, people might be a tiny bit more discreet.

          1. bookcase*

            Saying ‘gee I’m not that into Christmas not a good time for me in the past’ is fine. It’s the same as saying you’re not into sport, or talking about politics or celebrities. People may then tone it down around that person specifically.

            But what was suggested in the OP was unreal. Sending something out via email? That’s bizarre. If someone is so upset by Christmas they want to force the whole office to change this is something better discussed with a qualified professional to learn coping techniques for that time of year.

            2. LizB*

              I agree that sending out an email isn’t reasonable, but when you say “that time of year,” that’s kind of the crux of the issue, isn’t it? It’s mid-September! We’ve still got almost a quarter of the year to go until it’s Christmas! I understand OP’s friend’s gut reaction of “UGH, can we PLEASE keep this to the actual season where it’s relevant???” even though that’s not actually a reasonable request. If my coworkers started nonstop discussions of back-to-school shopping in mid-June, I would find that annoying too, although I’d be equally powerless to stop it except via ignoring it.

    6. Call Me Dr. Dork*

      I really despise the Christmas season so I’m with her. Sometimes distraction works. She could say “Oh, I really enjoy apple picking season and I don’t want to skip ahead to the next season yet!” Substitute in Halloween, Thanksgiving, hunting season, football season, etc. She doesn’t *have* to be into those things particularly, but it might be enough to get the other folks discussing something else for the next couple of months.

    7. RagingADHD*

      The only way I can see this working without being an overstep or making it wierd is if she goes all-in (in a humorous way) on having a capital-O Opinion.

      Like, “Christmas is so commercialized, what is wrong with the world? Are they going to start putting out reindeer in August, now? Why do you all hate Halloween, who hurt you?”

      It’s kind of a way of pre-emptively “othering” yourself, but less awkward because it’s silly.

      It probably won’t make people stop talking about Christmas entirely, but it gives her a way to deflect some of it and engage without just sitting there being upset.

      1. ecnaseener*

        In a similar vein, I was thinking she can lean into the humor a bit: groan theatrically and beg for a respite from the torture of Christmas talk

    8. Jean (just Jean)*

      TL;DR: It’s a good skill to learn how to respond warmly to someone else’s enthusiasm about a subject that is of little or no or actively negative interest to oneself. Why I haven’t learned this sooner is a subject for another time.

      Long version: I wish your friend luck in learning a few good ways to deflect this topic, or bring it down to manageable size (1 or 2 comments per person before the subject gets Changed).

      I’ve struggled with a variation of this problem, as a person who doesn’t celebrate Christmas because it’s not part of my religion or family traditions. I used to try to educate others (“I don’t do Christmas shopping, because I’m Jewish”); then I tried simply saying “well, I don’t celebrate it;” and finally I realized that most people who bring up the subject are not trying to be culturally oblivious but rather are just sharing their enthusiastic anticipation about something that they enjoy! Yes, some of us can be slow learners.

      So this year and in future I plan to reply with a brief personal demurral followed by a positive response to the other person’s interest/happiness/anticipation/enthusiasm. Examples: “I personally don’t celebrate but I enjoy the decorations. Tell me what you do to decorate? (Or, what’s your favorite part of the holiday, how do you and your close ones handle gift shopping, cookie exchanges, etc?)” In other words I’ll try to extend some grace and graciousness, not pour cold water over someone else’s happiness.

      I mean, it’s the year 2021, most people in post-industrialized societies realize that folks can and do choose to follow multiple different religious/ethnic/secular/national/seasonal traditions. I don’t have to hammer home this point in every single casual chat. OF course since I’m still working from home the casual chats are going to be much less abundant.

  87. AnotherAlison*

    Long time reader, sporadic visitor recently.

    I have some developing good news to share. The short version of my current job saga is that I left a 15-yr stint at a company for a job in January, moved to a smaller company, a different (but adjacent) industry, and totally different functional role that I had some background in from an old role. The new role turned out to not really leverage my old experience, the company is a sh*t show, and then we all got $0 on bonuses. The bonus was critical to taking the job and had supposedly been paid without fail for 10 years. (Even a colleague who had a guaranteed bonus and has been there 7 years isn’t getting his, so don’t point fingers at me for not getting it in writing, ha. . .although I would never ever do it again.)

    The GOOD news is after the bonus incident, I cracked open my network, and I have a very hot prospect. I have had multiple HR screens and a virtual meeting with the HM, with two more meetings with other people scheduled. I gave them a salary range that would be 20%-28% more than my base now, and still 10-16% more than with the bonus. They didn’t balk.

    The even better news is it is in a totally different industry, but doing the functional work I did at my previous job and I realized I’m extremely excited about that. It took some time away from my old job to realize the problem was the place, not my type of work, and it took some time doing different work to realize that I am not at all jazzed about this type of work. I’m also remote from my team, and look forward to a hybrid arrangement with people in my location. AND this industry is one I never considered because I have 21 years in something else, but it’s very hot for hiring now, and really takes me back to my roots and closer to I wanted to do when I was a teenager first thinking about careers.

    I’m trying not to get too excited, but keep your fingers crossed for me. (I have a few other prospects out there, too, but this one is furthest along and the most interesting. It is hard to stay focused on my day job, for sure.)

    2. Your Local Cdn*

      Its late but wanted to respond to say you have ALL my best wishes! Was in almost the exact same situation a few months ago (down to a cancelled bonus after it being paid without fail for over a decade…) and am now SO happy at new job back to doing the work I love :)

  88. Am I Qualified?*

    Has anyone applied and been hired for a job that they are only tangentially qualified for the role at best?

    There is a job open near me that an organization has been recruiting for for the last few months. It’s a highly specialized position. Much of the work the position is similar to work I have done and enjoyed, but the industry is so different that it would have a very steep learning curve for me.

    Typically, for this type of job I’d just toss my hat in the ring and see where it lands, but there are other factors related to this organization where I don’t want apply if I am not a reasonably competitive candidate.

    Just as some background information from what I understand from a friend who works for the organization, the person who was in the position was moved into another role. The person who was previously in this role was a newer graduate (I believe only had about a year or so of work experience), and the person who hired her thought she had a lot of potential and that they could teach her how to do the work. It’s not the kind of job that can be taught by sending a person to a few workshops. They have obviously come to the same conclusion, The person in the role prior to that was very well qualified. I would fit somewhere in the middle.

    I’d love to get the hives feedback.

    1. Chaordic One*

      It kind of depends on the support and training you’re going to get in the job. I’ve had a couple of jobs where they knew I was reasonably intelligent, had good communication and social skills and they allowed me to build on those and it was a great job until it ended due to a major reorganization.

      Then there were other jobs where the both the amount of work and skills required were different from what the hiring people had said they were and management refused to recognize this. That didn’t turn out so well, but the problem wasn’t about qualifications.

  89. Llama Wrangler*

    TLDR: I had an anonymous coworker falsely allege I had been on a video conference in my pajamas. My boss is clear it didn’t happen – do I need to do any additional follow up?

    We had a directors meeting earlier this week, which had all the C-suite (which includes my boss), and all the other director level staff. I had my camera on for about half the meeting, and then turned it off for the second half so I could eat. The next day, my boss asked for 10 minutes of my time, and said she wanted to verify what I had been wearing the previous day, because there had been some conversations about dress code and someone told her they thought I was in pajamas. I clarified that of course I wasn’t in pajamas, and she said she hadn’t thought I was but just needed to make totally sure.

    In the call, I asked her if I had done anything that would give anyone any reason to doubt my professionalism, and she said definitely not and she had no concerns about it. I did get a little bit emotional because I have been working very hard, and have been dealing with some low-level health concerns that I’ve worked through to try to hit all the deadlines we’ve been having. She seemed apologetic that she had upset me, and reassured me that she didn’t have any concerns about my work, and I didn’t do anything except apologize for getting a teary and said it had been a long day – we then wrapped up the call.

    I’m wondering if it’s worth following up with her in our next standing meeting about this. I actually already had dress code on my check in list because I have a new team member starting soon. Our office had previously had a strict business dress standard that has relaxed over time to more business causal, and I need guidance about what to tell the new staff member to expect. Obviously, there have also been differences in what has been expected for people working remotely versus in person.

    Part of me wants to push back a bit more on the conversation. Personally, I would like us to keep moving away from the regressive, punitive personnel policies we’ve had in the past, and this is an example of where I feel like the old culture might still be in place. I’m also curious about why she felt a need to raise it with me in the first place (versus just assuring whoever said it that she had no reason to doubt my professionalism) – but the way she phrased it as something that she “needed” to do makes me think it came from someone else in the C-suite? (She did not say who.) But I’m not sure I’m currently in the best position to take up this line of questioning.

    Part of me wants to explain that I was upset because I’ve been pushing through some health stuff to show up for work, but I also don’t necessarily want to get her in my medical business when it is not something I was necessarily going to tell her about.

    Or should I just let it go and just chalk it up as a misunderstanding that talking about more will only bring more attention to?

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      I’m not sure from your post, but are you worried that somebody made a false allegation deliberately, or whether it was just an honest mistake?

      If you think it was an honest mistake, I’d let it go. It’s a small screen, maybe they had glare, who knows. Give people the benefit of the doubt. Because I think that goes hand in hand with what you say about getting away from punitive policies.

      1. Llama Wrangler*

        I don’t think someone deliberately made a false allegation, but I’m worried about what it says about our company culture that someone would feel the need to speak up about anyone’s dress in any case that was a grey area (not, like, someone showing up naked or with swear words visible), or that someone doubts my own professionalism enough that they would assume the worst about my outfit.

        1. bookcase*

          It says bad things about the other person. Being a tattle tale about stuff that is irrelevant is not good.

          It would depend on how good your relationship with your manager is as to if you can take it further.

        2. ecnaseener*

          It might also not have been a Formal Complaint like you’re imagining. It could’ve been a few people chatting after the meeting, maybe complaining about the dress code or whatever, and remarking that your shirt looked comfy and jokingly wondering if it was PJs.

          It’s still weird to have people speculating on your clothes, but I wouldn’t assume anyone was trying to get you in trouble.

    2. HR Exec Popping In*

      As long as your manager has said there isn’t an issue you should generally let it go. The only reason to bring it up would be to ask if she has any feedback on our work dress. Otherwise, let this go. Some made a complaint that isn’t true and the company has said it isn’t true. So this is no longer about you. I know it is disconcerting but it happens.

    3. Rusty Shackelford*

      I’m also curious about why she felt a need to raise it with me in the first place (versus just assuring whoever said it that she had no reason to doubt my professionalism) – but the way she phrased it as something that she “needed” to do makes me think it came from someone else in the C-suite?

      To me it sounds like “someone said something, so I’m obligated to follow through.” Which does make me suspect C-suite. I can see something along the lines of…

      “Was Llama Wrangler wearing pajamas today?”
      “What? No, I didn’t notice any pajamas.”
      “Will you make sure? We need everyone to stick to the dress code.”
      “Fine. {checks all the boxes, grumbling *you could just trust my eyes but OKAY*} Yep, Llama Wrangler was dressed appropriately.”

    4. WellRed*

      I can’t believe someone was that petty! Also it seems like you WFH? If that’s the case, WTAF? A dress code? One your manager felt a need to follow up with you about? I don’t care how apologetic she was.

    5. American Job Venter*

      This is the kind of thing that would make me cry buckets and feel like I had a target on my back. I am so, so sorry someone was petty enough that your manager was Told to Talk to you.

      That said, though, having your manager on your side makes all the difference in a case like this — imagine if your manager hated you and was all too eager to believe that you are the kind of layabout who would wear pajamas to a meeting like that. So in the interests of not annoying your manager I would let it go. Save this discussion in your files just in case this is the start of someone making poky comments about you, but then hope that it’s not, take a deep breath, and remember what a professional and hard worker you are.

    6. RagingADHD*

      I once had a client ask if I was in my bathrobe because I had on a soft jacket over my blouse.

      People are wierd.

      Let it go.

  90. Bilateralrope*

    My employer has been purchased by a larger competitor. The one competitor operating around here that I don’t know much about. First the good news:
    – The law here requires the purchasing company to offer to transfer the employment of everyone working here* to them under my current employment contract. That means transferring any disciplinary history, years employed, outstanding leave, etc. Naturally I accepted the offer.
    – Also, the law here means their only options for firing me are either for cause or to eliminate my position. But I work on a clients site, so eliminating the position means losing the client. So my employment seems safe.
    – The software both my old and new employer are using is the same. So the only changes I expect are a new uniform and maybe some changes in management.
    – While my new employer does own their current office building, and my current employer is renting theirs, it sounds like the plan is for the new employer to move into my current employers offices. My current employers offices are at a more convenient location for me.

    This is my first time going through this, so I worry that there is some question I didn’t know to ask.

    *I’m unclear if the law just applies to the field I’m in or employers in general.

    1. HR Exec Popping In*

      I don’t have any specific questions for your to ask, but I would encourage you to be very curious about your new company. Learn what policies are different, read all communications that come out, look for cultural differences. An acquisition can be very good for the business and for a lot of employees. Assume the best while also working hard to assimilate into the new culture as the company that purchased your organization’s culture will now be the dominate one.

    2. WorkNowPaintLater*

      Make sure to read any and all communications (email or hardcopy) that you receive, as well as attending any meetings that may held while this change is taking place. Really watch for any benefits changes – insurance (if it applies), retirement, personal time, educational, etc.

      And brush up your resume. Not necessarily to look for a new job, but your new owner may need one if your company bids for work (I’ve had to do this before when I worked for a federal contractor).

      And new ownership can be a good thing! I’ve had it improve benefits for me in the past.

    3. WellRed*

      Yes there’s lots more than what’s legal. My retail company was acquired and they kept all of us, mgrs, scheduling everything. But the culture was totally different and most of us from the original company left quickly.

    4. Peter*

      Not sure where you are (and not asking you to reply) but in the UK this is covered under TUPE and doesn’t apply to pension arrangements, so maybe explicitly ask that question?
      What package will new starters be on if they work alongside you? If they start on much less than you, there’s incentive for new management to persuade you leave. If its better, can you get a payrise?

  91. Not Good With Names*

    Torn on what to do.

    For the most part, I don’t mind my job. I don’t love it, but I don’t hate the job itself. What I do love is the flexibility in my schedule. I have toddlers through high school kids. I can walk in a half hour late and say I need to leave at 2 today and it not be an issue as long as I don’t have anything pressing on my schedule. HOWEVER, there is an office bully who has torn the company apart. We no longer work as a team and she has caused issues between our department and many others. Our boss won’t do anything about it. This is a job he lucked into and is his first job – aside from one entry level position he held for 2 years prior. He will agree with whoever is talking to him and say whatever he needs to say to get out of the conversation, but won’t do anything about her. This is not just with me. It’s voiced by many others.

    The only other equal within our company to my boss has started gathering data regarding all the issues with this one person. Several people have quit or moved to other departments because of her. For the past year I have refused to talk to her unless there is a witness to the conversation. About a month ago I was able to get, in writing, proof of her lying, admitting to not caring about the quality of the work her team produces – they will only do what works best for them, and refusing to communicate with me about an issue I was trying to resolve. Boss was copied on all of it. Nothing happened. I gave a copy of all the emails to my bosses equal to assist him in trying to address the issues with her.

    I have a 3rd interview with a company next week. I feel strong I will get an offer, as I am interviewing with the president of the company, who is on the board of the company I work for now.

    My dilemma: The company I’m interviewing with does not have a work from home policy (which I use when possible now) and has said in both interviews they are an 8-5 company. They don’t allow much room for leeway in that. My kids are all active in sports and sometimes I have to leave before 5 in order to get them where they need to be. I have grandparents close by who can help, but what if they are not available?

    I love the flexibility of my current schedule, but cannot deal with the office bully for my mental health. The person I have gone to is trying to talk me into staying. He doesn’t want me to leave (he is aware of my interviews). He is talking with the director and trying to open up a position in his department to move me to. However, I work in government. I will not be able to stay and get that in writing as we have to legally open up any position to the public and higher for the best candidate and not promise anyone a position.

    TLDR: Do I leave the flexibility of my current job for my mental health or risk staying for the schedule flexibility for my kids?

    1. Anon for now*

      That is a tough one. The question I have for you, is how stressful would you find it always having to find someone to run your kids to activities, etc? And do you have a partner who could step-up and share the load?

      The other thing is that you could always talk to the employer about some sort of flex schedule or WFH after being offered the job. See if that is something you can negotiate. I

      1. Not Good With Names*

        I’ve been looking for the past year. I live in a rural area. Most other jobs are few and far between or a large pay cut.

    3. Kathenus*

      I’m not sure if you’ve explicitly told your boss (and/or the person you mention you have tone to, if a different person) that bully is the sole reason you are looking to leave. If not, I’d suggest doing that, and being very clear – that the only reason you are interviewing elsewhere is bully (if true).

      Second, for whether you stay or for the time you have left – can you and coworkers make it more uncomfortable for your boss to NOT act by all (individually and/or as a group) go to him every single time there’s a problem with bully? Make dealing with the bully the easier course of action and you might get some results.

      Lastly, it sounds like schedule flexibility is very important to you. The only thing I’d really caution against is taking new job and then being frustrated if you can’t somehow change them and make them flexible. If you take new job and go into it knowing there isn’t flexibility and you have plans for dealing with it – great; but if you’re hoping to get them to change you may end up just as – or more – unhappy in new job but for a different reason.

      I’m sorry, no easy answer.

    5. Teapot Repair Technician*

      What’s the plan if you do take the 8-5 job? Would you have to pull the kids from afterschool activities? Does the new job pay enough to let you hire an afternoon babysitter/driver?

      Personally I really value having a flexible schedule and wouldn’t give it up to get away from an awful coworker. But I’m probably not fully appreciating just how awful your coworker is.

      1. Person from the Resume*

        This here. I don’t think I appreciate how badly this is affecting your mental health.

        I’d talk to grandparents and find out how much they can commit to helping. I also don’t know if you really know how much flexibility you’ll get until your working there. What happens when you can’t drive your kid and grandparents can’t help? Do you think you’ll leave and potentially take the reputation hit or will the kids just have to drop activities and take the bus home?

    6. Joielle*

      I guess it depends on which thing you would find less stressful – having to schedule rides/care for your kids all the time, or dealing with the bully?

      For me personally, I’d find a lack of flexibility the most stressful. I’d hate having to schedule all appointments and run all errands outside of standard working hours. I think I would always feel unsettled having to rely on favors from others for kid transport and care, and risk needing to find last-minute options if something falls through. And keep in mind that a company as rigid as that may not want you to be spending much time on the phone during the day organizing kid-related stuff. And on the other hand, I’m pretty good at not getting stressed out by other people’s incompetence and not taking that kind of thing personally, so the bully probably would not bug me that much.

      But that’s just me! Think about which type of stress you could more easily bear for the next few years. Or, decide that you don’t want either type of stress and keep looking for a job with good coworker relations AND a flexible schedule. Or, decide that you’ll deal with the bully for a few more years until your oldest kids are out of the house and hopefully your schedule is easier to manage. No decision is permanent!

  92. Blergh*

    I’m struggling to know which jobs to apply for because job titles vary so much across different organizations. For example, I started out as an analyst and am now a manager. Some job postings seem like a lateral move or even a step up for me based on their descriptions/responsibilities, but their titles sound like a step back (analyst or coordinator rather than manager). Will it impede my career progress if my job titles make it seem like I’m not consistently moving up in each new role?

    1. Pascall*

      I don’t think so, as long as your resume specifies your responsibilities clearly in each role (especially going from non-supervisory roles up to supervisory roles, etc.).

      Lots of companies have strange and different job titles. I don’t think it’ll throw up any alerts as long as the evolution of your responsibilities is clear.

    2. HR Exec Popping In*

      Don’t worry too much about titles. They vary significantly from company to company and industry to industry. When applying, pay attention to the qualifications and years of experience required. That is the best way to figure out how comparable jobs are.

  93. Pascall*

    Gonna throw this out there to see if anyone has any suggestions:

    I’m an HRIS Support Tech (one step below an analyst, really), who is being asked to develop training for our HR Specialists – who do the onboarding and entering of data into our system – because lately we’ve been having TONS of data errors that bounce back to us from Payroll/Benefits.

    I want to do training on our processes, as well as data integrity and its importance to us as a company, but I’m not really sure where to start without putting our specialists on the defensive. Their poor data entry IS causing us a lot of issues, but I want them to see this as an opportunity to learn, rather than us accusing them of not doing their job correctly.

    For reference, a few of these employees started at the height of summer hiring (when we hire hundreds of people within the span of a few months), so I know the initial training they received was subpar, at best. So I want to really just give them more pride in their work and know that the stuff they input really matters. I also don’t have much standing to go to their supervisors to ask for any disciplinary action for repeated mistakes. I can only present the mistakes and then see what happens from there.

    Any suggestions are totally welcome- right now I’m just digging around for some articles on HR data integrity to kind of formulate some verbiage as to why it’s important.

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Are there patterns to the mistakes? Date of birth is entered wrong because the system expects a 4-digit year and people are just entering ’87’.

      Those are relatively easy to address, since they point to gaps in training, might be resolved by FAQs for weird terminology, indicate process issues, etc. I’d start looking for those.

      1. Pascall*

        There are- it’s mostly addresses not being formatted correctly (which effects how things are mailed out to the employee/how the address is reported to the retirement system), missing races which are required for accurate EEO reporting, names in improper caps, start dates incorrect…

        For anything that we CAN put validations on (like phone numbers, social security numbers, etc.), we have, so we’re stuck on these last errors that truly rely on being entered correctly.

        A FAQ would be a good idea, I think! I’ll include that in there. Thank you!

    2. OneTwoThree*

      I think you’ve already hit on a few of the key points. 1) You know they started at height of summer hiring without much training. 2) You’re not mad and they aren’t in trouble, but there is a push for better data.

      Could you show them what their errors mean and the effects they have? You’d show them you aren’t just being picky so everything looks pretty… their innocent errors have real consequences.

      1. Pascall*

        We’ve tried to do this view multiple emails and newsletters (our department even has a cute mascot to go with the newsletter that I very much enjoy making!), but it’s getting back to me that they’re not even bothering to read it, which is a whole other issue (and a little bit insulting, really).

        It’s a struggle to get them to understand how the data effects them when they’re not really willing to learn. We really want to have their Directors police them heavier on data integrity, but short of doing that, that’s why I want this training to be very relevant and helpful to them, rather than a lecture.

        It’s a hard situation, but I appreciate your reply! It helps. I’ll definitely be using samples on how the errors effect payroll and benefits particularly, since those are the issues that come back to bite the actual employee that they effect.

        1. OneTwoThree*

          It sounds like you like the emails, newsletters, mascot, etc. Have you asked them how they’d like to receive the information?

          Why are they making the errors? (Don’t know how/ where to put the info? Need a 10-key? Are they rushed?)

          What would motivate them?

          1. Pascall*

            During summer, it was definitely because of their workload and the shift in processes due to COVID. But now that summer is over, I have a feeling it’s just poor attention to detail and going too fast to ensure accuracy.

            Some of the specialists want to be told things in person, but I (and our HRIS department) can’t be responsible for standing over them and holding their hand through processes. Which is why I want to do these trainings in addition to the newsletters/emails we put out. I think it’s a good way to meet them in the middle.

            We just need buy-in from the Directors though. Without the directors holding them accountable, really, this is the most we can do.

        2. Chaordic One*

          Do they have time to actually read the emails?

          In my job every second on the phone or processing cases is documented. We get reported for taking too long. We are supposed to squeeze the email in between calls or while waiting for a fax to come in or something like that, but the calls are pretty much back to back with 8 seconds between them and it just doesn’t happen. We’re supposed to have an hour of “read time” but most people end up using it for housekeeping issues such as processing cases that were returned to us or re-suspending items that we haven’t had time to process (a big time suck).

          So often these kinds of errors result where people are under pressure to perform to a certain standard it means that details get overlooked. Also, these kinds of job are often not considered that important, don’t pay very well and so the people who end up being hired don’t have the skills or ability to do them well in the first place and it comes back to bite the whole organization.

    3. Rick Tq*

      It doesn’t sound like the line HR Specialists have any real incentive to get data entered correctly the first time, try giving them one.

      Can the system report who created each record or made changes? Can you also track how long does it took to expose and correct an error?

      If you know who created a record and quickly know if it is correct try creating an incentive/reward program that tiers on their accuracy rate. I’m thinking one set for Percentage accurate and a second set of rewards for Most Consecutive records without error. Depending on your data cycle you could make awards monthly or quarterly to keep interest up.

      1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

        Yes – sounds like you need some quality metrics. Even if you can’t incentivize it, a role that’s heavy on data entry should have some metrics around the quality of the data entry as part of the job for evaluation purposes.

      2. Pascall*

        I don’t think I have any authority to do incentives BUT having quality metrics is a good idea. We’ve started to document who is responsible for the errors we’re receiving but I think quantifying how long it takes to fix each error will help them see how much repair we’re having to do. We’re under no illusion that data hygiene and auditing is part of our responsibility, but it’s only part. We’re there to audit and fix where necessary but it should definitely not be for things that are so easy and common to get right on the Specialist’s level.

        Thank you for your advice! This helps.

        1. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

          My team doesn’t exactly do data entry, but quality metrics are distributed monthly and they’re actually a measurable part of our annual performance evaluations. On a monthly basis, 95% meets expectations, 98% exceeds, and 93% is lowest acceptable. For the whole year, if you get at least 8 months of meets or better AND two or fewer scores below the lowest acceptable, your annual evaluation quality score is meets. If you get that and also get exceeds at least four out of twelve months, your eval quality score is exceeds. Basically the more metrics we measure, the less arbitrary our evaluations feel, because there’s specific scales that apply to everyone based on measurable data and nobody’s going “well, Sam and Chris do about the same level of work, but I think Sam has more potential that they’re not living up to, so my expectations of them are higher and that means Chris is exceeding and Sam is only meeting.”

  94. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

    I have an interview on Monday for what seems like an ideal role – it’s a natural career progression, all the fun things I enjoy without the pieces I hate, people management, and good work life balance. However, it would require a relocation back to the city where I started my career, met my husband, and where all our friends still live. I would be excited to be back but the idea of moving, especially now that we have two dogs and a toddler, makes me want to throw up. I’m also concerned that the job, while a pay bump, won’t pay enough for me to support my family smoothly through the transition.

    I don’t know what I’m looking for by posting here, maybe just some good vibes? Open to any and all advice!

    1. Pascall*

      Is it possible to ask, when you receive an offer, if the company can provide any relocation assistance? Maybe not even necessary monetarily, but giving you enough time to get everything settled back into that town, and being understanding about the transition.

      That might help ease your mind a little bit to see what they say and if they’re willing to step up and help out, or at least assist in alleviating stress in some way.

      1. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

        Fortunately they are providing a (small) stipend for relo, and I’m hoping to be able to work remotely/in-office once or twice a week until we can get the move sorted out. I’m getting ahead of myself trying to calculate out exactly how much I’ll bring home after taxes (different than my state) and if it will be enough to let my husband stay home with our kiddo while we get settled, instead of him immediately having to look for a job and childcare on top of everything else. I’m also worried about being able to sell our house with enough profit to buy another one, and emotionally struggling with the idea of being possibly priced out of this highly desirable area in the future if we ever want to move back. So many feelings!

    2. HR Exec Popping In*

      Good luck with the interview. A few things to consider if and when you get to the offer stage.

      1) Ask for relocation assistance. Many companies provide this and what that looks like can vary from here is a check for X to just about all expenses covered.
      2) If relocation is not provided, you should negotiate a signing bonus to help cover some of the costs.

      I recently moved and while it is always horrible relocating during the actual experience you quickly get over it and enjoy the new job and location.

      1. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

        Thanks! This would be my third interstate move, but the first one with a kid/dogs/selling a house. It’s a lot easier when you can just end your lease and throw everything you own in a car!

    3. PollyQ*

      Moving is an enormous PITA, BUT you do it and then you’re done. Only you & your H can figure out whether it’s a good idea to move & whether the finances work for you. But I wouldn’t let the fear of the hassle of the move stand in your way. And while it’s true that toddlers are not much help in a practical sense, their lives will be far less affected by a move than older children’s would be.

  95. Temp worker question*

    How much time should be given to a temp to get up to speed on to the task that they need to accomplish? I’ve tried to be clear, and even dialed back the requirements from what is expected of a full time employee to make it easier for them. But they seem to keep asking the same questions, and not taking decent notes, so I’m wondering how long to keep trying. I can do this work in my sleep so I’m trying to be mindful that I’m giving clear instruction and not my own short hand.

    On the other hand, it does take a long time to get temps in at my office because of the red tape, so is it worth keeping them on to just do the super easy back burner stuff? It took so long to get them in that I’m slightly worried that by the time we get a new temp the contract period will be nearly over.

    1. PollyQ*

      Are these temps you’re hiring yourself or through an agency? If it’s an agency, then based on this: “But they seem to keep asking the same questions, and not taking decent notes,” I wouldn’t hesitate to send them back and ask for someone with minimum competency, which this person doesn’t have.

      If you/your company is hiring them yourself, then yes, it’s a harder question. At minimum, you can talk to your temp and give them the feedback that they’re not catching on to the work as well as you’d like, and specifically tell them they need to take better notes so that they’re not asking the same questions over & over. I’d also ask yourself if the amount of hand-holding that they need means that they’re more of a burden than a help. If replacing them is too difficult, then yeah, maybe putting them on the super-easy stuff is the way to at least get some value.

        1. Rick T*

          Bounce the current person and ask for another, they don’t exhibit even a minimal level of competency or care about their work product. You aren’t getting any value for your money to the temp agency now.

          1. Temp worker question*

            Monday morning update – I’ve asked the agency to replace them. They have continued to struggle, after multiple meetings (we’re virtual) covering the task in detail and each time saying they understand but the completed work is still wrong. And we haven’t even given them the hard stuff yet.

      2. Mergatroyd*

        This might be too late for the thread, but here are some suggestions. These are for tasks done on a computer, but the principles apply to training for other tasks.

        Are you providing any written instructions, or is your training just talking to them as they take notes?
        Do you show them what to do while they watch you? Or do you have them “drive”while you tell them which buttons to push? I realize that’s an oversimplification.

        Many people aren’t good note takers. If you provide numbered instruction steps, with room for them to write their own tips, they have something to refer to when they’re on their own.

        Having someone watch you do a task (for example, on a computer) is useful only as an introduction. After that, the trainee needs to be at the keyboard while you “coach”. And having a set of numbered steps to refer to will also help.

        If you’re having trouble with poor note taking it sounds like you need some training materials. They don’t have to be fancy, but they need to be straightforward and easy to follow: numbered steps, direct active language, short sentences, no long paragraphs.

        So you don’t want “the widget should be put on the post” but you do want “put the widget on the post”

        1. Temp worker question*

          Very good points. We’re virtual. On Friday, for one really easy time-filler task in one of our applications, I shared my screen, talked slowly through each step (I even stopped talking when they were taking notes so that they had time to get their thoughts down), I then did a few examples talking through each step with every example. I then had them share their screen with me to do a few while I watched, and they got the first step wrong and struggled with the other steps. This is a pretty easy task and I just don’t have time for this level of hand holding. Very nice person, but this training on Friday reaffirmed that they have to go.

  96. subterranean ed*

    Longtime reader, but I’ve never commented before. I wanted to see what you all thought about whether applying for positions while (appearing to be) gainfully employed is detrimental to finding a new job. I work full- and part-time in order to assemble a living wage. I’ve been actively job-seeking in my field for more than a year (as in, I had begun in earnest prior to the pandemic). I’ve had several interviews over the past year, but no offers; since civil service is involved, it’s hard to get feedback from the hiring committees. But I did notice in more than one interview seeming confusion over whether I would keep my full-time job if I was offered one of these (full-time) positions.

    My full-time job is in higher ed. It might appear to be lucrative or at least a living wage due to that, but it’s not, thus the part-time position. I don’t believe interviewees are really in a position to be honest about why they might be job-seeking while being employed (in my case, poor wages and a toxic environment) I’m beginning to be afraid I’m coming off as… dilettante-y? Job-seeking for fun or because I’m bored? Like I don’t “need” any of these positions because I’m already employed?

    I was more than qualified for all the positions I’ve interviewed for, and in some cases had two interviews. I bring everything I have to every interview. Civil service in my area is such that I’ve started to believe it won’t ever produce anything for me. And I’m starting to be afraid that I’ll have to just straight-up quit my full-time job due to mental health reasons and to, what, appear desperate enough to potential employers, maybe?

    1. Pascall*

      I don’t think it detracts at all. People leave full-time jobs for other full-time work for a variety of reasons: higher pay, better location, flexibility, life circumstances change, etc.

      It’s strange that they asked if you’d be keeping the other full time job (how would you even, unless you plan on working 80 hours a week?) but most companies would assume that you would leave your current job in favor of the new one. It’s fine to job search while you’re employed and shouldn’t take away from your qualifications at all unless the company has really strange perspectives on why people leave their jobs.

    2. HR Exec Popping In*

      Most interviewers would assume you will be resigning from your full time job to accept another full time job. Could it be they are just asking why you are looking to leave your current role OR want to know how much notice you intend to give?

      Anyway, hiring managers do not see it as a negative that candidates are currently employed. In fact, it is generally the opposite. The only possible benefit would be you have more time to apply to jobs which should result in more applications and could increase your odds.

      Good luck.

      1. HR Exec Popping In*

        Oh, and just because your are more than qualified for the job does not mean you are the most qualified applicant. Often candidates look at the job posting and say I should get the job because I meet all the qualifications. They don’t consider that other candidates do as well.

    3. Rusty Shackelford*

      No, it’s actually easier to find a job when you’re already employed. No sane person is going to assume that you won’t be interested in a job because you already have one. That’s not how it works.

    4. PollyQ*

      Conventional wisdom is that it’s very much the other way around. People without jobs are generally perceived to be less attractive job candidates, with the underlying assumption of “If they’re so great, why don’t they have a job right now?”

      I do think you need to have an answer for why you’re job-hunting, although it doesn’t need to be particularly deep. “Looking for new challenges, especially in the areas of [X]” or “No room for advancement at current job.” If your interviewers are genuinely confused about whether you’d be leaving your current job for the new job, then they’re terrible at their jobs. It’s 1000000% normal for people to handle changing jobs that way.

  97. Mainah*

    I’m going into the weekend with the phrase, “cheap ass rolls” stuck in my head like an Eagles song.

  98. Sally Sparrow*

    I feel like I’m getting too emotional (or at least feeling too emotional) with my job. I worry I’m taking small slights (perceived or otherwise) way too strongly. I’m not sure what to do.

    Two main issues. First – I’ve spoken with my boss several times how I want to be able to see my projects through to the end (i.e. present the finished results to staff). She’s doesn’t have an issue with this. Her boss doesn’t have an issue with this. But great-grandboss keeps cutting me out in favor of my more junior coworker – who usually ultimately ends up having to come back to me to get the answers. Thus creating an annoying game of telephone.

    The second issue involves a peer who bounces between being great and seemingly disregarding my opinion and expertise. I handle our system customizations and reporting. This peer has cut me out of meetings and shut down conversations with me if my boss isn’t there. But then the peer does continue to come back to me one-on-one to get the info she needs, but like after the planning/strategy of which I need to be involved on (or I think I need to be involved).

    End result is a lot of feeling hurt and demoralized — like a consultant instead of an actual team member and super unclear what my actual role is. It’s not sexism as we’re all women. All of this has been flagged up to my boss (and she to her boss) before but nothing has really changed. It’s not my work quality because I was promoted 8 months ago and she’s lining up so I can be promoted again probably within the next year or so. I’m contemplating starting to look for a new job. But then I worry I’m just taking things too personally and need let things roll off more.

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      I can commiserate with you on the first part. I got a reputation as a firefighter at my first post-college job, and inevitably got added to a project at the 50% point when it was way behind schedule, struggling mightily to get it back on track, and then taken off at the 95% point, right before it got into the hands of the customers.

      Two things that might help with mental re-framing.
      1) It’s not personal. I highly doubt that your bosses are cackling and rubbing their hands together Mr. Smithers style and doing this to hurt you.
      2) In a way, it’s a compliment. They’re saying that once you get it close to done, they are so confident in your work that they can turn it over to a wet-behind-the-ears beginner to wrap it up. Now, you do have valid business reasons to come back and say “Thanks, but that strategy isn’t actually working, because the last 3 times I did it, I had to deal with 87 long email threads from the people that it was handed off to.

    2. ferrina*

      Have you been clear to your boss what you need her to do? Sometimes it’s not enough to flag an issue for a boss- you have to tell them what you need them to do.

      That said, how much is this worth your political capital? It does sound really frustrating and strange that the great-grandboss and peer are doing these things, but are these just two annoying people in an otherwise wonderful company? If it really is about these two annoying people being disrespectful but not actually damaging your reputation or work, it might be better to let it go. Remind yourself that this reflects more on them than you. You may not see it, but in my experience, others do notice that.

  99. nattie*

    happy friday! y’all I could use some help—a coworker in another unit is currently having a loud convo with another coworker and repeatedly using the r-slur to describe things she doesn’t like. I can hear it clearly from several rows away. I feel like I have to address this, but how? I’m all fired up and ready to email her supervisor, but what should I say? Or should I just put my headphones in and let it go?

      1. HR Exec Popping In*

        Agreed. The best thing to do is to address it in the moment directly to the person using the term.

        1. Kathenus*

          Also agreeing, and if you miss the window, I’d still say something to the person first, not her supervisor. If it happens again after that, totally go over her head, but I think the first time should be to the person doing it if at all possible.

    2. Donkey Hotey*

      The passive “You know I can hear you all the way over here” can occasionally work but I’ve found an equally loud, “REALLY?” to be effective, often punctuated with “ARE WE TWELVE?”

    3. bookcase*

      Saying a slur is awful and unacceptable.

      It is awful and unacceptable to go to someone’s supervisor instead of speaking to them. There are few things ruder than escalating an issue you could talk to someone about without giving them an in person chance.

      Talk to co worker before reporting them

      1. MissBliss*

        I think “awful and unacceptable” is a bit extreme for going to someone’s boss. There are plenty of things that would merit going directly to someone’s supervisor instead of them. I don’t think this is one of them, but I don’t think a blanket statement that you should always go to the supervisor is right, either. What if OP overheard a slur that made them feel unsafe? Going to the person wouldn’t be the right move then. I’m assuming that’s not the case here, because OP said they feel fired up, which is a different scenario.

      2. nattie*

        I didn’t realize people would feel so strongly against talking to their supervisor. The coworker is not someone I work directly with, I doubt they even remember my name, and there is a considerable age gap so I don’t think addressing her directly would be well received. We work for a government agency with very comprehensive anti-discrimination training so there’s no way she’s simply unaware that language is unacceptable.

      3. pancakes*

        The coworker who is fond of the slur has a chance to consider whether it’s acceptable or not every time she uses it. I don’t see why she needs yet another chance to reconsider her frequent usage of it.

    4. TimesChange*

      Are you of a similar age where you did use that term when younger (it was definitely a thing my age used to say and I had to work to actively stop using it)? If you’ve missed it in the moment, you could try pulling them aside later and mention “Hey, I know it was normal to say r- when we were younger, but it’s no longer okay.” They might grumble defensively about it — I wouldn’t keep engaging other than maybe tossing out a “Hey, I just don’t want you to get in trouble” and change the subject. Yes, this is definitely the soft approach and may not be appropriate for all coworkers.

  100. Brett*

    I’ve got an interesting problem I don’t know how to address, and I think I could particular use help from women who have been pregnant on this. For context, I am a middle aged man with no children.

    I have lost a _lot_ of weight during the pandemic (roughly 30% of my body weight in 8 months). It was from radically changing my exercise program and dramatically changing how I eat in a healthy way rather than a health issue. But it was so dramatic, that I have a huge problem with loose skin. I have skin folds on my hands and face as well as folds of several inches on my stomach and back.
    I generally will not turn on my camera on online meetings, but when I do, everyone comments on it and often the loose skin becomes a topic of discussion.

    I feel generally feel comfortable discussing this, but I feel uncomfortable discussing this when there are women on the call who have been recently pregnant. It seems weird to acknowledge my weight loss issues, especially the skin problems, when they dealt with similar issues and worse and no one is asking about that.

    So, what should I do? Just shut down such discussion every time? (But it seems weird not to acknowledge my appearance. Some people don’t even recognize me.) Do some sort of acknowledgement to other people who could be or have been dealing with similar issues? I cannot always keep my camera off, so I am stumped how to deal with this.

    1. bookcase*

      I have a varying body shape depending on how much pizza I am into. And yes varying to the point of unrecognisable.

      People looooove to comment on other people’s weight.

      Just make a brief acknowledgement of their remark and change the subject. You also don’t need to go into bat for pregnant women whose weight is not being acknowledged. I bet they prefer it not to be acknowledged. Weight loss after pregnancy and general weight loss is often seen as different things and that’s fine.

      1. HigherEdAdminista*

        I agree. More people than you think do not want to discuss their weight changes in either direction. In fact, if I were on this call and hearing people discuss yours, I would be pretty uncomfortable with it.

        I think the best thing to do is start shutting these conversations down. People have seen you and had a chance to comment on it, so hopefully people will not keep bringing it up, but if they do, you can say something like, “Yep, I’m adjusted to it now so I don’t even think of it, anyway about blah blah blah…”

        1. Brett*

          I mean… I have not adjusted to it at all and I think about it practically every day and the problem continues to get worse. Unfortunately I have several hundred people I interact with routinely who have not seen me in person since march 2020, so virtually every call where I need to turn on my camera there are multiple people who have not seen me since before my weight loss. It doesn’t help that I have a headshot from 2019 attached to my profile (and can’t change it), so I pretty much have that photo side by side with how I look now too.

          1. allathian*

            Are you sure you can’t change it? Maybe you could look into getting a decent professional photo taken and request a change from HR/IT. I mean, what would your employer do if an employee transitioned? Would they be forced to keep the old profile photo when it no longer matches the way they look or their gender? Radical weight loss isn’t quite on a par with gender realignment, but I bet you no longer identify with the headshot from 2019. Getting the new picture would also stop reminding people of how you used to look, and hopefully they’d get used to your current appearance and stop talking about your weight loss.

            I suggest you own your awkward feelings around this issue and don’t speculate how your pregnant or formerly pregnant coworkers might feel about how pregnancy has changed their bodies.

    2. OneTwoThree*

      I’ve never been pregnant and don’t have loose skin problems. However, my thoughts are….

      I wouldn’t bring up other people who you think may have loose skin. For all you know they have been blessed by the gene gods who gave them skin that bounces back. Or maybe they are really self-conscience about it (while it seems like you may think it’s an odd topic, you are comfortable with it.)

      Awknowledge it, answer questions if you feel comfortable, and move on.

    3. Brett*

      I should add that I don’t mean public acknowledgement of other people, but rather private acknowledgement.

      1. AnotherAlison*

        I think people expect someone will lose weight after pregnancy AND talking about pregnant women’s bodies is (or should be) off-limits, so it’s not something I’d see people congratulating those coworkers about. Or maybe they have pre-pregnancy profile pics and everyone forgot they were 30 lbs heavier for a while.

    4. AnotherAlison*

      Is there a particular woman who was pregnant and has on-camera visible loose skin? This is the most unusual part of your question, IMO. I was pregnant twice, no loose skin. A few stretchmarks in places no one at my work will ever see. I’d keep the focus on people commenting on your body and shut that down!

      FWIW, my former director had at one point been morbidly obese and lost all the weight through gastric bypass and kept it off. He had some loose skin that was obvious in person, but I never once commented on it or his weight loss. We were even pretty good work friends. That’s just not something to ask coworkers about. That was pre-video calls and in person, the weight loss is obvious, so perhaps your coworkers are asking because you look different in the face and they don’t see the whole body weight loss, but it’s still rude.

      1. Rusty Shackelford*

        I’m confused about that too. I don’t know any women who had post-pregnancy issues with loose skin unless it was around their abdomen, which wouldn’t show up on Zoom.

      2. HBJ*

        Ditto. This isn’t really a pregnancy thing that I’m aware of from my own pregnancies or the many, many pregnancies I’ve observed in friends and family. Loose skin, if any, is limited to the belly.

    5. PollyQ*

      I’d shut it down, and I wouldn’t be that nice about it. If people mention your weight loss, a simple, “Yes, thank you,” is fine, and for any more detailed questions/comments about the particulars of your appearance, a slightly chilly, “I prefer not to discuss my body at work” is perfectly appropriate. These people are being rude AF to actually be discussing your appearance that way.

    6. Dark Macadamia*

      It’s weird to discuss it because people shouldn’t be talking about each other’s bodies at work, not because some members of the group have been pregnant. At most you should say something like “yep, I lost a lot of weight” and then move on – absolutely DO NOT start pointing out other people you think might have loose skin!!! Just because you’re comfortable talking about it doesn’t make it okay for others to bring up, especially during work and in a group setting.

    7. RagingADHD*

      I really don’t understand why the analogy to pregnancy. Women don’t normally get loose skin after pregnancy in any areas that would be visible at work.

      You certainly don’t need to be talking about your stomach or back.

      Just shut it down. It’s not a question of whether you mind talking about it. It’s a wierd topic to discuss at work, so just don’t.

    8. Brett*

      Good to have the sanity check that I should just shut down conversation. Thank you everyone.

      Something I assumed was clear that I guess was not… having loose skin visible on my face means that people definitely ask about issues with skin on my stomach and back, especially about my stomach, e.g. do I have loose skin, did I get stretch marks, am I considering surgery, am I going to lose more weight, etc.

      There are women on some of these calls who I personally know were recently pregnant (and also do not turn on their cameras like me), who I have talked to about their pregnancies, and I feel really awkward being the center of a conversation about loose skin, stretch marks, and similar weight related body changes because I worry that it makes a particularly uncomfortable environment for them, even more so than it does for me. I feel like I owe them an apology or an acknowledgement that I created that environment; but I am now more realizing that it is the fault of the people asking the questions rather than my fault for losing weight, even if I have a responsibility to shut down the questions.

      1. Zweisatz*

        Precisely. The people opening up these discussions, in bigger groups with ‘bystanders’ no less, are being rude. You are not being rude for having a body, that’s not possible. As long as you’re making a reasonable effort to end this part of the conversation, you don’t have any responsibility here (and imo, the person asking is still ruder than the person answering – what else are you supposed to do, you probably need to preserve these relationships).

      2. RagingADHD*

        I am truly not trying to harsh on you, because you are obviously trying to be empathetic and considerate. That’s a good thing.

        But your explanation here reveals that you are spending far more time thinking about your female coworker’s bodies than you should do. You appear to be hyper-aware of their weight and appearance, and in a way that is somehow related to you or in comparison to you. I have never encountered a woman who felt that a male co-worker’s weight loss or stretch marks was even tangentially related to her experience of pregnancy. If you did try to apologize in some way they would most likely be bewildered.

        It would behoove you to examine this and see where this is coming from. I know from experience that major weight loss is a mental and emotional journey that can uncover a lot of unhelpful or distorted thinking along the way.

        I believe this is one of those times. You don’t need to speculate or consider what your coworkers look like under their clothes, or how they feel about it, any more than they should be asking about your stomach.

        1. Brett*

          It would take a long explanation that I am not sure I can get right with all the history. Our work environment is biased against women in several ways. I’ve tried to work against this by specifically helping women in our extended team find mentors, get access to networks, by providing feedback when they were not otherwise receiving for it, and generally advocating for better equity in pay and development opportunities. Because of this, i sometimes get alerted to situations of gender discrimination from outside my immediate team, I think because I have been able to get results in the past and because I have built up a level of trust through my actions. This has included failing to accommodate for medical needs during pregnancy, and me pushing to have those needs accommodated without penalizing those people.
          Those are the discussions I have had, and sometimes people over share about their health and well-being in those discussions. What I know from that oversharing is what led to me having an after the fact worry that letting a discussion of the complications of rapid weight loss happen in a meeting might distress others.

      3. Imtheone*

        I agree that you can politely shut down the conversation. People can be annoying, and they love to say intrusive things.

        On a personal note, I’ve seen this issue resolve over a few years on its own for some people. A good dermatologist should have a feel for how likely this is.

  101. First Time Asking for a Raise*

    I discussed asking for an increase in bonus payout in a prior week.

    I’ve decided to start with my boss and not go around him. I’ve got a one-on-one set up for next Friday (he was unexpectedly out of town or I wouldn’t have given us both so much time to stew about this). I plan to just address it head on with the payroll information I have, since everyone knows I have it, so why beat around the bush. I think I have a good amount of data to show that I deserve the bump up.

    Here is my question. The main people I have to compare myself to in this instance are men. IE my boss, who held my roll before I was promoted into it (we were both moved up a rung), who not only made a higher salary than I’m paid in the same roll, but received double the bonus, resulting in me getting roughly 3/4 of what he made in total. We are the same age and have very similar career experiences, although he has been at our particular company a couple years longer than I. And some other managers at my level with roughly the same salary and responsibility, but they receive double the bonus pay. I have been advised by several people, all men, that I should point that out when I have the discussion. They say that it is so ingrained in them to pay women less that unless I specifically point it out to them it won’t be corrected. I tend to feel that’s a nuclear option, that if I play this card I can never take it back and it will set up an adversarial relationship between me and the company forever. Am I being silly, and should I point this out to them?

    If I do, I think I should lead them to it gently, by simply asking why I don’t receive the same bonus, and if they can’t provide an explanation (and I don’t think they can) I could simply point out that it looks bad that I don’t receive it as a woman without going all “you’re sexist.” But I don’t know if it is something that I should broach at all. Thoughts?

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Can you just say “Ben, Fred, and Joe all get 12% bonuses, and I’ve only gotten 6%, even though our titles and performance are the same”? Would that make it feel like you avoided the nuclear option, since you won’t overtly say “MEN get 12% and WOMEN get 6%”? Or would that backfire and leave them room to weasel?

      Just a thought.

      1. First Time Asking for a Raise*

        Well there is a lot of room to weasel because we don’t do performance reviews and a lot of our titles are bizarre, so it isn’t as clear cut as it might be in a more hierarchical company.

        I guess I just don’t know if it’s just me that sees that as a nuclear option, or if the general community would agree. I was just so surprised that all the men I discussed it with volunteered that advice to me, when it almost feels like an unfair advantage I have that option, which I admit is silly because I only have that option because women get the short end of the stick, but I’ve never ever been one to play the woman card, heck I don’t even usually think of myself as one, and neither does my office, evidenced by the fact they pulled every woman into HR one time to discuss if our head of department was sexist and they forgot me entirely LOL.

        1. Rusty Shackelford*

          Suggesting that men and women should be paid equally for equal work is not “playing the woman card.”

          1. First Time Asking for a Raise*

            I think I know that in theory, but I know that a lot of the men at my office go around grousing that they can’t discipline women or minorities because “they’ll sue” (which, I find offensive, and I do point that out) but I think that’s why I’m hesitant to do it. Which is to their benefit so I guess I need to just get over it.

            1. Ginger Baker*

              I think if multiple men have pointed out this discrepancy, it’s not just in your head and there’s not some Super Secret Extra Qualification [that isn’t a body part] that the men have and you don’t. You’re not “playing the woman card”, you’re…asking for equal pay for equal work. Do you…not feel you deserve an equal salary to similarly-skilled-and-experienced men who have previously held your position or are currently in comparable positions?

              I absolutely would flag the gender disparity – and I’d do it using AAM’s excellent way of putting these things (someone else can likely link to some great examples) of “I realized we have a discrepancy that looks highly gender-biased, and since the Company of course is not discriminatory we definitely want to remedy that, especially given the bad optics of it. We wouldn’t want anyone to get the wrong idea about the culture of Company!” I mean, smoother than that but an “OF COURSE, since YOU are NOT sexist, you will want to correct this immediately!” vibe.

            2. Observer*

              If that’s what is actually happening, then it makes it all the more important to raise this. Not just for yourself, but for the fact that your company DOES have a sexist culture.

              Pointing out inequity is not playing the “x” card. Framing it that way is pretty gross, to be honest. Looking at it as some sort of advantage, when the issue is actually that you are pointing out that you are being DISadvantaged, is so illogical that it really sounds like you’ve internalized some really strong prejudices.

              Which is another good reason for calling this out – you need to call it out to help ground yourself back in reality.

    2. Kathenus*

      I actually agree with those advising you that you should definitely point out the discrepancy of pay by gender. BUT, to address your concerns that this is the nuclear option – the key is how you do it. If it’s presented calmly as data – maybe even noting this is an issue in many industries that has been more highlighted recently – it can just be information presented, along with things like your work performance, to show why you should get the increase. If you present it in an accusatory or negative way as the first step, call them sexist, threaten to take EEOC action, etc. (NOT saying you’d do it this way) then it could work against your goals.

      So my advice is definitely point it out, but in a neutral way of giving data to support your request. Good luck!

      1. ferrina*

        I think Alison has some language in the archives. Something like “since there is a discrepancy in men and women’s pay for people doing the same work, I assume the company will want to address it” (sorry, that really isn’t doing to wording justice. Def worth searching the archives)

    3. Observer*

      I have been advised by several people, all men, that I should point that out when I have the discussion. They say that it is so ingrained in them to pay women less that unless I specifically point it out to them it won’t be corrected.

      … snip …

      But I don’t know if it is something that I should broach at all. Thoughts?

      Point it out. Don’t call anyone anything, but point it out. Your line that it “looks bad” is good, I think. If these people are acting in somewhat good faith, and just not thinking things through, you’ll accomplish something. If it becomes adversarial, then you will know that they are, in fact, sexist, and you can take your next moves accordingly.

  102. bookcase*

    Does anyone know what to do about unsolicited input for a small business? As in, people telling you how to run a small business.

    I work for a small business. I am the manager after the owner. We employ around 10 people, 20 in busy season. We are so tired of people telling us how to run the business, often in condescending ways. I’m always open to ideas but almost all of these ideas are wrong for us and one idea today at work from a customer was plain illegal.

    I tend to just brush these remarks off. These people are idiots. But it upsets my boss, the owner. We are a mid sized town, lots of regulars and the owner is just sick of everyone putting their 2 cents in.

    How best to support my boss and deal with people while also keeping their business. And just in general has this happened to you? Maybe not a small business but maybe your brother in law the dentist tells you, a lawyer, how to do your job and is totally wrong.

    1. Rick Tq*

      Say “Thank you for your suggestion” then go on and ignore the advice, then remember to not discuss whatever topic triggered the advice with them again.

      You and your boss should reframe these suggestions as well-meaning advice, not malicious interference so you won’t be upset when someone innocently asks you to violate laws of physics, the Prime Directive, or fundamental employment law in your state.

      1. bookcase*

        My boss doesn’t see it as quite so innocent, they see it as the person thinking the owner doesn’t know how to do their job or be successful. It gets them down that people think they are incompetent somehow. The business has had its up and downs but most of this is due to Covid. And even if we have had some down patches the advice we have been given wouldn’t fix it.

        Given we have been slow sometimes I wouldn’t mind advice if it was good. But this advice has been terrible. Today’s advice might actually injure our customers it’s that bad. And all described in lengthy ‘helpful’ detail!

        1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

          “It gets them down that people think they are incompetent somehow.”

          But these kibitzers don’t know enough about the subject to be able to make that judgement! And they don’t even realize that they don’t know what they don’t know! Why should the opinion of somebody like that affect your boss in the slightest?!

          When somebody makes one of those suggestions, and then it’s just you and your boss, say “Wow, people have a lot of gall to chime in on something that they have no understanding of.” Maybe that’s the kick in the pants your boss needs to realize these comments can just be freely ignored.

        2. Rusty Shackelford*

          Your boss is taking things WAY too personally. No one is saying “George doesn’t know what he’s doing, I should tell him.” (well, no one whose opinion matters.) They’re saying “I know everything! I can help George do better!”

        3. PollyQ*

          It’s probably almost 0% about about him and about 100% about them, though. People are bored, or self-aggrandizing, or wish the world conformed to their desires, and that’s mostly what’s driving them to make these suggestions, not any belief about your boss. Rick Tq’s advice to say “Thank you” and then place the idea in a mental circular file is what’s needed.

          If the same client is continually offering advice, it might possibly be worthwhile to say, “Fergus, you seem to have a lot of suggestions for us. Do you have problems with the service we’ve been providing you?” He may be trying to solve an issue that you don’t know exists, and drawing that out could open the way for you to fix the thing in a practical way.

        4. American Job Venter*

          I say this as someone who takes things personally: most advice, especially uninformed advice, is about the person giving it and their past, not about the person they’re trying to give it to and that person’s future.

          Tell your boss this: “We can thank them and say we’ll put their suggestion in our suggestions file. You and I know by that we mean the Round File.” and snicker together. Turn annoying advice-givers into an injoke between you.

          Good luck with this!

    2. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Oh don’t get me started. I ran a bar & wine retailer for several years for a small partnership of guys. One of the owners suggested illegal things (buying liquor across the state line where it was cheaper). Cheap-ass regulars who suggested complicated themed drinks. Cheap-ass regular who wanted me to get 4 large-screen TVs so they could watch golf all day long, annoy the other customers, and spend maybe $30 each.

      It was actually easier for me to shrug off the comments by the customers, because I could always have the excuse of checking on another patron before responding to them, and then they’d forgotten the suggestion by the next time I came by. When I was pinned down I just said “Hmm, interesting. That’s above my pay grade but I’ll mention it to the owners.” And then “mentioning it” was just telling them at our monthly meeting “Oh yeah, crazy George is still coming in.”

    3. BadWolf*

      This happens at every level, I think. Even amongst friends. I see it in my hobby — there are people who are running a very small business with our hobby supplies and fellow hobby folk like to share all kinds of suggestions. A friend of mine says she just thanks people with a non-committal comment. But she’s pretty laid back. I’m sure it’s harder to brush off the condescending things or when they keep suggesting the same thing over and over. Maybe your boss needs to rechannel this into an absurd bingo card kind of thing. Patron’s going to save the business with illegal idea. Parton suggests something we’re already doing like it’s their original idea. Patron suggests something we’ve tried and flopped. Patron suggests something that will cost more money than it will make.

    4. They were all titans of industry*

      Really helps to develop a thick skin & murmur Um hm. My husband runs a small business where people hang around and talk. I don’t know how he stands it. A bunch of self important jerks who want you to know they were titans of industry (they weren’t) & know quite a bit about this business (they don’t) and indeed all business (they don’t). They tell him he should do this. He should do that. He absolutely can’t take all this personally. He smiles and nods.

  103. HereKittyKitty*

    I started at a new company in June and have really been enjoying the work and the team. We’re in an old-school industry that is trying to modernize and as a result, we’re restructuring the department I’m in to have more collaboration whereas now it’s a little siloed- so that’s a good change. I also found out yesterday that we’re adding some higher-level positions during the restructure and my director asked me to apply to one of them- strongly implying they had me in mind! After being laid off for almost a year, it feels good that they want me to apply for a manager position because they’ve been really impressed with my work. It’s more project management than people management, so I think it would be a great fit for me since I’ve been wanting to work more on the project management side of things. I’m going to throw my hat in and see what happens!

  104. KateM*

    I just sent off an application to a position I’m not really qualified for, and I’m exhausted! First time over about ten years to write a CV, and I agonized a lot because I had to write it in English – all those terms tp translate…
    But it was surprisingly easier to write a cover letter, thanks to what I read on AAM. If that’s any decent cover letter, that is.

    1. ferrina*

      Great job! I always found writing that CV and cover letter to be so stressful. Congrats on getting it done and done well!

  105. Anon for This*

    I have commented a few times about the university I lecture at and the terrible way we lecturers are treated. Three months before the end of our contract, we are ceremoniously (as in, they hand deliver us a registered letter) fired and told we will not be rehired and we should look for other work. In reality, though, all lecturers who want another contract will be offered one 6 months later as the university preps for a new school year. Also, contracts were never for more than 2 years for any lecturer I’ve known, no matter how long they’ve been teaching at my university. It’s just a biyearly reminder we are disposable parts of higher education and as a result, I’ve never really felt all that invested in the changes my department or university has been trying to make. If I’m not going to be here, why should I care about the changing curriculum?

    The good news is that our union has put together a new contract with the university that addresses these issues with lecturers! Those of us who have been here for X years now will get no fewer than 4 year contracts and there are career advancement opportunities as well! Nothing has been agreed to officially yet, but I’m finally feeling heard. I don’t know if this means my attitude will change; a lot of damage with my relationship with this university has already been done. But it feels like a step in the right direction!

    1. bookcase*

      I’m glad you mentioned your union. I don’t know what country you are in but this has been a problem around the Western English speaking world for some time now.

      In my country it is the union that is making progress, in conjunction with laws put in place the last time we had a progressive government. I think in education unions are the best way forward.

  106. Mint Flavor is King*

    I’m curious how others utilize the wall and desk space of their office. This is my first job and six months in, I feel like I’m still trying to find a system that works. I like to keep my space fairly organized but I’ve been feeling lately like my desk space is really cluttered.

    1. quill*

      Reference documents get pinned to the cube walls if they are “look up and see them = able to use them” and they get filed if they’re not. Having one of those desk stands so I can shove my keyboard out of the way to take notes helps too.

    2. PollyQ*

      Do you have the ability to store stuff on your walls? Perhaps with shelving, or those sort of diagonal wall folder holder thingies?

    3. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Take a hard look at the stuff you have on your desk. Eliminate non-functional stuff like tchotchkes and extra coffee mugs. Even putting things like staplers in the desk drawer until you need them frees up your visual field and several square inches of desk space.

    4. Teapot Repair Technician*

      I’m naturally a packrat. But my self-imposed rule is that I must be able to pack my entire office into my shoulder bag at a moment’s notice (in case zombies attack).

      That includes everything on my desk, on the walls, and in the drawers/cabinets. The only exception being my computer and furniture.

      Right now I’ve got 6 folders, 1 book, 4 pens/pencils, 1 page of quick-reference notes, my phone, and a coffee cup. At the end of the day, every piece of paper that doesn’t belong in one of those folders gets shredded, and extra office supplies go back to the supply cabinet.

      Of those 6 folders, there is one for each project I’m currently working on. When my part of the project is done, the entire folder gets shredded.

    5. ferrina*

      I have a calendar on my wall and it is a sanity saver. My position comes with a lot of deadlines, and having a calendar I can easily glance at makes things much, much easier.

  107. I'm just here for the cats!*

    So I just saw this from Dear Abby and I would like to see what others think, and see if Alison could way in. Basically this guy is working from home and he was not on any calls with coworkers or with clients and he cussed and his manager IMs him and tells him off for cussing. Since the LW wasn’t on a call the employer must be listening to him and he wants to know if he was in the wrong. Abby says he was wrong, that if he wouldn’t do it when he’s in the office he shouldnt do it WFH. Here’s the original https://www.uexpress.com/life/dearabby/2021/09/17/1

    I would like to hear Alison’s thoughts (if she has time) and everyone else’s too!

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Well this is clearly a call center type job, if they could listen into everything he was saying, whether he was on a call or not.

      And so I think just for the sake of maintaining work habits, it’s a reasonable thing to chastise him. When you’re back in a call center with 40 other people, you certainly don’t want somebody in the background cursing, no matter how good your hush microphones are.

      Even if this were permanent work-from-home, it’s probably still a good habit to police your language if you do public-facing work like this.

      1. I'm just here for the cats!*

        My biggest thing with Abby’s response was ” If you did something during business hours that you wouldn’t do at the office, you shouldn’t have been doing it at home.” But when people started WFH we all started to do stuff that was ok that we wouldn’t have done in the office. Like not wearing makeup and doing our hair, wearing pj’s instead of real clothes, etc.

        Plus I’m not sure if he had his headset on or not. from my experience working in call centers if we’re not on a call or waiting for a call (pause is what he called it) we don’t have our headset on. To me it sounded like the company has listening software on his computer.

        1. MissDisplaced*

          If this is a call center type job, yes, managers can and do listen in randomly unless you are designated specifically offline for a break or doing other tasks (then your calls get forwarded but you’re still monitored as offline status and they might ask why you’re not taking calls). I would hope that the workers do know about this monitoring with with software and that it’s company policy so they are informed and expect/know they are being monitored though.

          My company does this with the help desk associates. They all know about it as being part of the job and it’s not some evil “big brother” type thing. Our customers pay a lot of money for our help desk services, and we have to report quality and metrics to them.

          1. MissDisplaced*

            If this was not a call center job, I think Dear Abby overreacted to this a bit. I don’t think an occasional frustrated curse word is reprimand worthy, nor should employees be monitored that way. Just saying call centers have different rules when they’re “on.”

      2. Rusty Shackelford*

        It could be an appropriate *reminder,* but I certainly wouldn’t make someone feel like they were in trouble. (Also, if they weren’t aware the manager could be listening, that’s disturbing!)

    2. AnonymooseToday*

      Yeah I couldn’t really tell what the set-up was at first. I don’t think Abby realized they weren’t on an active call with anyone.

      1. TechWorker*

        Yea the response seems to totally miss the point of the question. I certainly don’t think employees should have an expectation that someone is listening in, & if that’s happening without warning that sounds extremely dodgy behaviour from the employer.

  108. Liane*

    Hope this is work related enough.
    My daughter has gotten her first job in her field, Fashion! She is now employed at a bridal store doing alterations. All they needed from me was encouragement to apply. They got the job partly because they didn’t need much training being a student at the local fashion college.
    I hope she doesn’t run into too many bridezillas. But I am sure that after working grocery store customer service since high school that Daughter has the tools to deal with them.

  109. NeutralJanet*

    So I applied for a job that said “proficiency in French, Spanish, and/or Arabic preferred, but not required” and mentioned in the interview that I am fluent in French and can carry on simple conversations in Spanish, though I am not fluent. I asked for feedback when I got rejected and was told that one of the main reasons was my limited Spanish (the interviewer did not actually test me on my language proficiency, but presumably took me at my word). I totally understand that it’s possible that there was a disconnect between the person who wrote the job ad and the actual requirements, or that another candidate had the same qualifications as me but also was fluent in Spanish, but I have to admit, I’m kind of annoyed.

    How do all of you evaluate the “preferred but not required” section on job ads? Would you be willing to apply to a job where you have none of the preferred qualifications, or would you need half of the qualifications, or would you only apply if you had all of them?

    1. Decidedly Me*

      It depends on how much I want that job :) I don’t think there was necessary a disconnect between the interviewer and ad writer, it’s just that the risk is always that, while not required, someone else may have that qualification.

    2. I'm just here for the cats!*

      yeah that really sucks! Prefered but not required is just the extra stuff. Like its nice to have sprinkles on your sundae but it’s not a necessary ingredient. If they wanted someone that has better spanish then they need to make it part of the requirement.

      The best advice I could think of is to ask in the interview how much of X skill is needed or how often it is used.

      You are probably right that there was another candidate who had all of your same qualifications but they had better spanish than you.

    3. ATX*

      I would apply to any job that had a preferred requirement that I didn’t meet, but met most of the rest of the required ones.

      It sounds like they did indeed want someone with additional language skills but they poorly represented it in the job posting.

    4. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      I’d almost definitely apply if I had 50% of them. I might apply if I had none, but I’d either want to know I’d be stellar at the core requirements or that some of the preferred things would be pretty easy to learn.

    5. Littorally*

      Focus on that part about other candidates who were fluent in Spanish and had similar qualifications as yours. I’d say that’s almost certainly what happened — sure, it’s possible that they were never going to hire you if you weren’t fluent in Spanish, but given the limited information, I’d say it’s much more likely that they had another applicant who fit their requirements better than you. And it’s much better for your sanity to not leap immediately to the assumption that they were being duplicitous in their job posting.

    6. AnotherLibrarian*

      I apply even if I have none of the preferred if I think I want the job, but I also know from hard won experience on both sides of the hiring process that there’s always a chance that a stronger candidate will appear. There is one other factor as well, at some places you can’t hire someone if they don’t meet the required items in the formal position description. So, if something might be hard to find or is highly desired, but not critical, it goes under preferred to avoid a failed search.

    7. ecnaseener*

      Yeah, it’s going to come down entirely to the candidate pool. If a bunch of other promising candidates are proficient in Spanish, well…they get preferred over you. No disconnect, that’s what it says on the tin.

  110. different user name*

    I’m running an event that usually includes taking the 3-5 headlining speakers and their plus ones out for a Very Fancy Dinner with the event organizer as one of the “perks” of being the headlining speaker. This is usually a group of less than 10 people. Last year, our event was virtual so there was no Very Fancy Dinner.

    This year, we can’t get out of our pre-pandemic hotel contract so we’re doing our best to hold an in-person event that won’t turn into a superspreading mess. (Masks, vaccine/testing requirements, etc.) We’re going to be requiring masks for all events, and restricting eating/drinking during presentations so people will remain masked, but obviously we can’t have people wearing masks while actively eating so I’m becoming increasingly stressed about the Very Fancy Dinner. This’ll be later in the fall/early winter, and it will probably about 40 degrees F out, dark by dinnertime, raining, and somewhat windy, so outdoor dining options will be limited.

    This dinner is supposed to be a perk for the speakers in that we buy them a nice dinner and, depending on their inclinations, a great deal of booze, and a perk for the organizers in that they get to talk to the speakers in a casual setting. It’s already going to be difficult this year because one of the speakers is a no alcohol in food prep person so we’re probably going to go to a no-alcohol restaurant and disappoint the speakers who were expecting the large bar tab experience.

    Honestly, I want to get them all fancy to-go boxes and eat by myself in my hotel room, but that doesn’t seem “fancy” enough and doesn’t solve the networking/social aspects.

    Any thoughts on how to either pull off this sort of dinner reasonably or on something we could replace it with?

    (This is specific enough that other people with my event might be Googling for info, so I’m using a different name than usual.)

    1. Chompers*

      I know it wouldn’t help with the networking/social aspect but I don’t think fancy takeout is such a bad idea. We’re still in a pandemic and you could certainly use that as the selling point for it. If the open bar tab is a huge selling point, you could also maybe set up a tab at the hotel bar (if everyone is staying in one place) and let them know – possibly even have a more socially distanced cocktail hour where people could spread out a bit with one or two people instead of all of you sitting around one table and breathing on each other.

      1. ferrina*

        I like this idea. A couple 5-star restaurants in my area were offering multi-course take-out menus complete with drinks. I think you’d need to make sure the hotels rooms had a kitchenette, though.

        1. pancakes*

          Or send them to their homes. I’ve been drooling over the Hawksmoor meal boxes but would much rather have someone send me one than buy one myself!

      2. different user name*

        These speakers are flying in for the event and staying in the hotel the conference is taking place in (we’re paying for their rooms and travel). The hotel has discontinued room service “as a COVID-19 safety measure” (but the hotel restaurant/bar, right in the hotel lobby, is still open as COVID-19 spreading measure? I hate everything), but the rooms do have minifridges and microwaves.

        1. pancakes*

          Ah, I skimmed over that bit. I vote for socially distanced cocktails in the lobby for those who feel comfortable coming down for drinks, followed by dinner delivered to their rooms from a local restaurant, assuming the hotel still allows deliveries. (I’d think they’d have to, when room service is not an option?)

      3. WellRed*

        I like the hotel bar tab idea. I’m not the biggest fan if takeout if only because the pandemic, during which I’ve ordered a decent amount, has shown me how uneven it is. Too much or poorly packaged ice cold food that didn’t travel well. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to not have the special dinner by any means, but do something special during the timeframe.

        1. WellRed*

          I also admit to being confused by the need for a no alcohol resttaurant because someone can’t eat food prepared with alcohol. Lot’s of food is not prepared with alcohol, bar or not. It’s

          1. different user name*

            It’s not that we’d have to go to an entirely alcohol-free restaurant for that person, but it would make it easier to accommodate them, so it’s under consideration. There are also a lot of food allergies, dietary restrictions, and such in play. Thankfully no one has declared a need for either Kosher or Halal yet, but we’ve got diabetics, vegetarians, no alcohol in food prep, several specific and weird allergies, and just generally the venn diagram is getting kind of complex, but Lebanese/Middle Eastern/North African food seems to still be in the gooey, delicious center of “nobody absolutely can’t eat that, plus bonus ease in accommodating the no alcohol in food thing”, so we may end up at a Halal restaurant despite that not being an explicit requirement.

    2. Kathenus*

      Could you offer a really nice box dinner or room service option (with beverage option including cocktail choices) at the event, and then give each of them a hefty gift card to a restaurant of their choice, or just a Visa type gift card and saying it’s in place of the Very Fancy dinner so they can get one on their own? Making it clear that you really appreciate them but not having the in-person dinner is for safety? Take the amount it normally costs for fancy dinner/cocktails and use that amount for the boxed meal and gift card?

    3. mreasy*

      What about doing the fancy takeout with a bottle of wine sent to the drinkers, and you dine over zoom? It seems somewhat ridiculous but it’s better than the risk! Plus, it will show your VIPs that you really care about them.

  111. Daughter of Ada and Grace*

    Dear Third Party Recruiter,
    If you think emailing me at my current work email account is a good idea, how can I expect your judgement to be any better when matching candidates with companies?

    (I’m more amused than anything. And I’ve already deleted the emails. Yes, plural – he sent a follow up today. To the work email account.)

    2. pancakes*

      This is extremely common. How would they get hold of your personal address? And why would your present employer penalize you for being on the receiving end of a recruiter email?

      1. Daughter of Ada and Grace*

        From my LinkedIn account, which is presumably where they found my work email address. Or heck, send me a message on LinkedIn, like every other recruiter does.

        I’m not concerned about my employer seeing that I’m receiving these emails. But replying to a recruiter from my work address saying “Yes, tell me more about this other job” sounds to me like I’m job searching from my current account, which does sound like something my employer could penalize me for. (Not necessarily formally, but in the same way as asking your boss to give a reference before you’ve accepted a job offer could penalize me.)

  112. All the cats 4 me*

    So… weird question….you know all those websites, brochures and menus etc that are poorly translated to English? I am thinking tourism (hotel and restaurants, service based business like hair, nail, etc salons) and Aliexpress vendors and so forth.

    Is there an actual job to help the business to spiff up the English when designing the webpages, brochures, menus etc? It just seems like it would be kind of a cool thing to do, and that it would be beneficial to the business.

    I would love to hear from anyone who has done this or knows of this function.

    2. Atx*

      I don’t know much about it, but I have taught English to Spanish speakers in Central and South America (as well as travelled extensively throughout the countries). Learning very good English is a luxury for many people and the English taught in schools is often taught by people who speak the language at a mediocre level.

      It’s also an extra business cost that many business owners don’t have.

      I’m suspecting this isn’t that big of an issue where English is prevalent and spoken often in countries like Sweden or Denmark (they also have more money to spend on things like that).

      If a business in Latin America wants to hire a native English speaker to translate a website, it’s going to be very expensive for them because they would be hiring people from the States/Uk/Australia where cost of living is vastly higher and 10x the cost of a local person who’s speaks “ok English.”

      1. All the cats 4 me*

        Just to be clear, I’m not concerned with the translation – I am asking about the fluency of the english version, as described by Sparkleboots, below.

    3. SparkleBoots*

      I did that type of work freelance, but it was mostly just by networking. I used to do freelance proofreading/editing for college students, and one of my clients was getting a doctorate. He is from Korea, and had taken on several book translation projects for small companies, and one website that sold beauty products. He asked me to help him with all the translation work – he did the initial Korean into English, and I did the more “pragmatic” translations to help things flow better. From there, he put me in touch with other people who needed similar work. It was very fun and I enjoyed it, but it often demanded fast turnaround times.

      I recommend starting with freelancing, if you are able to – make a website for yourself and offer that service. Start advertising in your area and just talking with people. I hope that helps!

      1. All the cats 4 me*

        This is sort of the arrangement I have been thinking of!

        I offered to polish the english brochure for a spa when I was vacationing in Mexico, as I had become friendly with the owners. My Spanish is nearly good enough to get the gist of the Spanish version, and combined with that and the existing english version, I was able to create a more polished english version.

        I enjoyed doing it (as a favor), and they said they were planning to get a new print run done anyway, but I don’t know if they ended up using it.

        I often see bilingual websites that could use some polish in the english phrasing, and think to myself how much a little editing would improve the presentation in english.

        Mostly it is just thinking it would benefit the business, and thinking how much some small changes would add to their presentation.

        Thanks for the reply, I was sure that someone must have found this niche and filled the need!

    4. The New Wanderer*

      I met a guy once while backpacking in Europe about 20 years ago who was trying to make a living doing this in a freelance-barter way. As in, he would go travel around and find a hotel with a website in need of improved English and offer to fix it up for them in exchange for a free room for a couple of nights. I don’t know how successful he was in the long run or if he did this with other business (e.g. fix up restaurants’ menus in exchange for meals).

  113. Questioning*

    Is there advice for negotiating salary when you’re offered a promotion? Most of the posts I’ve found are about negotiating a raise or with a new offer. I recently received an offer from my current company to move into a management role, but the increase in line with what I’ve received in promotions to senior individual contributor roles.

    2. winter*

      When I moved into management, I looked at what people in this role were making in my industry and asked for a raise in accordance with that. I think they were a little surprised I negotiated and didn’t raise the original offer by a lot, but I got more. It was easier for me because I could take or leave the promotion, I would have been happy in my prior role too.

  114. Mints*

    Honestly, same, slack off as long as I don’t have any deadlines. On the worst days, I keep my laptop open with email and IM open, and watch Netflix on another device. (These are rare, maybe once a month max.)

  115. Peoplearepeople*

    My supervisor is constantly talking about people who “just don’t want to work” and it makes me want to stab myself (not literally). She is the only one on salary, makes at least two and a half times what the next highest person paid does, and is a classic example of “not wanting to work.” She is constantly coming in late, leaving early, doing personal business on company time. You name it. But she completely fails to see the hypocrisy. She is blaming company problems on the “people who don’t want to work.” But no, they don’t want to work for the company. All of the problems that are coming up now because they can’t hire people were always there. It is now just that the problems are even more visible than they were before.

    So last Friday and a couple of days ago I read a bunch of posts from people who were talking about their boring (but relaxing!) jobs that don’t actually use up 40 hours a week. I would love some examples of those jobs, not because I want to work a 2nd job, but because I am incredibly burned out (see above) and would like to get some ideas of where to aim while I’m looking. Speaking of which, can anybody share some hope that if you don’t have a network you will still, eventually, get a job anyway? I’ve been seriously looking since around May if not earlier.

    1. ferrina*

      Yes, you will find a job eventually. I won’t promise that it will be easy (you already know that it won’t), but it will happen. This is a really weird job market right now, with certain sectors/skillsets being easier than usual to find jobs in, but a lot of companies are still recovering. When I was searching earlier this year it took me nearly 6 months to find my job, and my industry bounced back in a big way starting in January. Hold in there, and make sure to take good care of yourself.

      For boring jobs- data entry was a nice quiet job for me. I was really good at data entry, so I’d finish my work in way less than the allotted time, then be able to do my homework. At a different time, I worked the night shift in food service- that particular location was really quiet at night, so there wasn’t much to do. Both of those positions were hourly. The one salaried position I had that I worked way less than 40 hours was because my boss was a serious gatekeeper. He didn’t like to work, and he’d set looooong deadlines and claim that we were very busy when we really weren’t. It really can vary based on the company.

    2. Mints*

      In my experience, the main difference between “things are constantly on fire” versus “relaxing” is who I’m supporting. Customer service (anything public facing) or sales has been the worst for expecting people to work all hours. When I’m only supporting internal staff, it’s been much easier. I’m not creating the actual company product, I’m one step removed from the outside world.

      It’s more nuanced than like “marketing” because if you’re at a marketing company where your customers are other companies, you might still be customer facing even though it’s business-to-business. But if you’re in marketing at a like, a real estate company, it’d probably be much more chill.

    3. MissDisplaced*

      I work in B2B marketing and it’s pretty chill.
      My work is project based, so unless there is some kind of urgent fire drill (rare) I mostly set my own schedule. It is a 40 hour week, but there are opportunities to have a “lighter” day if you don’t feel like concentrating as much. That said, I never run out of thing to do! There’s always something that needs updating, or I use slow times to build my stock photo library or do some Photoshopping.

    4. The Dude Abides*

      I work in state gov’t on the finance/accounting side, with some tasks being public-facing.

      With my tasks, I got to a point where I can plot out my day/week based on where it is within the month/quarter. There are some slow days where there just isn’t much to do, but then there are some days that I spend almost all of my working time on a particular task due to volume and time sensitivity.

      At least in my area, you don’t need a network to get into a union job. It takes a lot longer than it should, but given the malfeasance of prior administrations, more due diligence is required.

  116. Rattatat*

    Just need to vent – our organization resumed “normal” in-person operation this week meaning that everyone had to be back in person or have a documented WFH plan filed with HR. They have promised us that they will maintain flexibility for occasional remote work and are committed to allowing people to continue hybrid arrangements where possible. But I just found out that they are throwing a lot of roadblocks at those requesting remote work such as not allowing regular remote work on Fridays or Mondays or on consecutive days. And there is just a general sense that remote work is being subtly discouraged. Everything was going fine! We just had our most successful year in a long time (in an industry where many other organizations are struggling)! Everyone who needed to be in the office, or wanted to be, and who was able to, was already back! We were a little more than half-full on any given day and it was quiet and felt relatively safe. I don’t understand why they are forcing back even the people are who don’t need to be, don’t want to be, and/or are in a situation where returning to the office causes hardship. Lots of people are still facing difficult child and elder care situations! It really ticked me off to find out that a colleague who, years prior to the pandemic, had negotiated and gotten approved to work remotely every Friday is now no longer allowed to do so. Also, there is still a raging pandemic. Our region made national news this week because of our COVID rates! On a selfish note, having a full office makes people who have to be here (like me, my job requires in-person work at least several days each week) less safe. And what did we find out this morning? One of our colleagues just tested positive for covid. And instead of just a couple of people (or even no one!) being close contacts, because it was a full office with normal operations including meetings, lunches and gatherings, a WHOLE BUNCH of us have been exposed. Most are vaccinated and our risk is very low and we don’t need to quarantine unless we have symptoms but it adds a layer of stress and worry which detracts from our ability to focus on doing work. Anyway its been a really really hard week and it feels good to get it all out.

  117. Emily Elizabeth*

    What should you say in a “keeping up” with someone networking email? Allison mentioned in some recent post how roughly a once a year check in is all people mean when they say keeping in touch with old bosses, and I would like to do that, as I have previous bosses I genuinely enjoyed and want to stay connected with. Just…what do you actually say? “Hello long time no see”? Subject line? How much do you up-front update them about your own professional/personal life versus asking about theirs? Do you ask more about how things are going (casually) work wise or family/personal wise? I would love if anyone’s willing to share general guidelines or a general script!

  118. moron5*

    I simply hate my job and have extreme difficulties making myself work (I’m in home office).

    I got an excellent performance review – the first one at this job – just a few months ago. Then I got a new boss. He directed a few accusations (lack of communication skills, arrogance…) towards me and although he withdrew somewhat when I asked for specific examples (and didn’t give any examples), I found each of these situations extremely frustrating. My last job was short so I should stay at this one for at least a year longer.

    1. WellRed*

      I think it’s ok and necessary for you to start looking. Thus may be a personality mismatch or new boss might
      Just be an ass but you’d be wise to be prepared. Also we spend too much time at work to stay at one we hate.

  119. Spessartine*

    Should I tell my boss his job posting is atrocious? And if so, how?

    I work at a very small business and lately we’ve been super busy. My boss (the owner) has been talking about hiring another person for a while now and decided to put up an ad about a week ago. A few days back he told me he hadn’t gotten many responses and was disappointed with the quality of them. Well…I found the ad and I can tell you exactly why! He posted it on Craigslist and nowhere else as far as I can tell, and it’s…not good. Poor grammar/punctuation/sentence structure, no mention of the pay (required here in Colorado), and an ALL CAPS edit at the bottom complaining about something one of the respondees had done! If I were looking for a job right now, I wouldn’t even consider it. The super unfortunate thing is that it’s a great place to work and I really like my boss, both as a boss and just as a person. Normally I’d just wince and not think much more of it, but the position is basically 85% assisting me and 15% other general stuff that needs done around the office, so I feel more concerned about the quality of the applicant pool than I might otherwise. But how on earth do I bring it up with my boss? Should I even? He’s a chill guy but my job has nothing to do with writing job postings or anything close to it. I get serious anxiety about bringing up stuff like this, which doesn’t help!

    1. Mints*

      Could you say “Since the job is mostly supporting me, do you mind if I repost the ad on some more networks? I’d also like to reformat it so it matches other similar job postings.” I think since it’s mostly supporting you, it makes sense that you’d take a lead during hiring

      2. Spessartine*

        He did say he wanted me to be involved in the hiring/interview process, so I think that’s a great way to approach it. Thanks so much!

  120. Mary Anne Spier*

    I’m having some of the same anxiety I had last year.

    I am a high school librarian. I love my job. This is my second year at this school. I before getting this certificate I was a special ed teacher for 13 years and got completely burned out on everything but the kids. The paperwork, the testing, the meetings, the lawyers, the parents… I moved on. Our special ed department is short-staffed by at least one person and last year they were down by two. There was a teacher hinting that since I’m special ed certified I could maybe take on some of their work. Hard no. This year there are two new teachers but they lost one and the numbers are up so they’re feeling the pinch again. That stinks. The district needs to hire.
    One of the new special ed teachers came to the library today and asked if she could borrow a laptop charger and said, “are you sure you don’t want to come back to special ed?” I said “I’m positive.” She said something weird like “considering that you’re talking to me I wouldn’t phrase your answer that way. But we’re just so slammed down there…” I said that last year there was someone hinting at me about taking on work and I said no. She said, “oh, well, yeah, you do have a full-time job here.”

    Nobody better approach me and try to ask me to run meetings or write IEPs or take a caseload. It is so very literally not my job. It is not my job.

    1. Flower necklace*

      They need to respect your boundaries. I’m an EL teacher. I know there are teachers in other departments who have their EL certification, including one who team teaches with a member of our department. I think they got asked if they wanted to teach an EL once, and after that it was dropped.

  121. Confused by recruiters*

    How do you contact recruiters at companies you are interested in and have that actually be productive for all involved?

    I had a job that tends to be a high pay / high stress / high turnover thing, so the major companies that employ us tend to utilize a lot of recruiters looking for people with experience to backfill in their frequent turnover. I used to have recruiters cold contact me regularly looking to see if I would jump ship to their company. A couple years ago I took a step back to deal with a health problem, which came with an equivalent change in title to something related but more on the administrative side. After that the recruiter contacts ended, I’m in better shape now and want to go back to this field, but any time I’ve contacted a recruiter they have been aggressively uninterested before they know anything about me. If it was after they saw my resume I’d assume my job change was putting people off, but it almost never even gets that far. It makes me feel like there is something about the job seeker – recruiter relationship that they know and I don’t, and I’m doing something wrong.

    But also, sometimes I have been referred to these recruiters by a manager at their company and they still do the same thing. What always happens is they generally act like they don’t have anything to do with filling open roles and I should just look at the website and leave them alone. Usually what’s on the website is a few very generic always-open postings that don’t give any details about which areas of specialty they’re looking for at that moment, which is what I’m usually asking about. Sometimes this is after I’ve contacted the recruiter in response to them posting on industry-specific job boards that they’re looking to hear from candidates with experience in this job, but often this is after I have been pointed directly to them by someone at their company that I’ve worked with before. The manager will loop in a recruiter at their company that they know on an email thread with me asking them to see if anything’s moving in my specialty at the moment, and they’ll be like “idk.” and just let the whole thing drop. Occasionally they will schedule a time to talk to me just to say “idk” to me live. I really, truly, do not get it. I don’t think I’m saying anything weird, because the manager will frequently just come right back and start putting me in touch with other managers after the recruiter seems uninterested, and I don’t think they would do that if I was making an ass out of myself in these email threads.

    So like, recruiters of AAM, am I doing something obviously wrong here? I am only ever contacting recruiters who I have either been referred to or who have recently said they are looking to talk to people in [job type] for roles they are recruiting for. How am I supposed to be contacting them in order to not get a stern brushoff?

  122. Cheezmouser*

    This seems like a silly question, but I’m genuinely unsure how to respond: what do you say when someone says, “You’re so smart!” or something along those lines? Usually it’s an off-hand comment someone makes when I’m proposing an idea or providing feedback or whatever, but it makes me flustered and I usually look away and mumble some type of deflection like “Thanks, it’s just an idea I had.” I’m wondering what would be a more gracious way to handle it. Do I just smile and say “thanks”? Do I still deflect but say it confidently with eye contact and a smile? I don’t want to come across as low self-esteem, but I also don’t want to appear arrogant. I guess I wish people would compliment my work instead of me personally. It’s easier for me to say “Thanks!” in response to “That’s a great idea!” compared to “You’re so smart!” although functionally they’re the same, I guess. Am I overthinking this?
    FWIW, I’m a late-30s female individual contributor in a female-dominated field who has been with my company for 15+ years. I’ve climbed my way up the ladder steadily and am now highly respected across my organization. I get these types of comments semi-regularly and would like to respond in a way that fits my standing but doesn’t come across as if I’m full of myself. Thanks in advance!

    1. Lizzie (with the deaf cat)*

      It is ok to say Oh, thanks! And then just leave it there. They are saying it in relation to a work matter, so they are commenting on your work related idea, work related creativity, work related insight etc.
      It is ok to be smart. It is ok to be a woman and be smart. You really don’t need to say any more than ‘Thanks’. If you are absolutely busting to say more, you could sometimes say ‘Thanks, I really enjoy thinking about this stuff’.
      No overthinking required, Cheezmouser!

    3. mreasy*

      I enjoy a slightly self-effacing “thanks, I try” in response. I find it kind of condescending when people say “you’re so smart” – like there is the implication that they’re surprised? – but adding something to the “thanks” makes it feel more comfortable to me.

  123. Claire*

    So I went through two hour long interviews for one job. Didn’t get it but have another, final interview at the same company for a different role.

    Should I expect different questions? If so, any idea what they might be? For a third interview where they already know me and I’ve already answered the standard ones.

  124. Just wondering*

    Once reported to a supervisor, how long should it take to stop harassment? I brought it up to my supervisor and management management a couple of weeks ago, but my coworker hasn’t stopped. He was told to take time off for mental health and to put distance between us, but he comes and goes on his terms and has shown up to work randomly, which I’ve told to my supervisor. Is a few weeks normal for the to continue? To my knowledge, management hasn’t gone to HR because they’re trying to “hear both sides and work things out” between us.

    2. PollyQ*

      What kind of harassment? If you’re in the US, and it’s based on a “protected characteristic”, e.g., race, gender, age, sexuality etc., I’d go to HR now and tell them you’ve reported the harassment to management, but it’s still ongoing. A decent HR department will take that very seriously, because it’s putting the company at legal risk.

    3. Kinna*

      No, it’s not reasonable. It should be stopped immediately! A harasser should not be allowed anywhere near their target while any investigation is carried out, and steps should have been taken to protect you from both the harassment and any retaliation.

      Go to HR now, and tell them everything, including how useless and ineffectual your management has been, and that that harassment is continuing. And if they are anything less than shocked, reassuring, and quickly effective, speak to a lawyer. (You don’t have to do anything legal but knowing your rights and options here will help clarify what you should be doing and saying).

  125. Possible promotion*

    I have a good news, intriguing news, and a question. Also, this is a family owned company, so keep that in mind.

    For the past couple of years, I’ve been wearing many hats for my company. At the moment, I’m doing my job, splitting a job with a coworker, doing the administrative work of a coworker that quit earlier in the year, and am occasionally asked to be backup for another job. I’m not paid well, especially for everything I do, but I stay because I have an amount of flexibility and freedom that I would be unlikely to get elsewhere in the industry.

    Recently, the coworker that I split the job with called in, which led to a long conversation with a person who has the authority to makes changes. The conversation was very productive. This person didn’t realize I had been doing the job of the person who quit earlier, I was asked to train someone in house on the job I split with a coworker, and that I had been creating documents and training materials that were sorely needed.

    Because of this conversation, I received a small raise and there’s talk about creating a position for me to fill, which would mean a promotion and raise. The job would be to create training materials for the company and possibly conducting training for some of the more complex jobs. I’m excited about the prospect, but I have some hesitations.

    My actual job is one that I enjoy, but I’ve done it for so long that it’s incredibly easy. I’m on autopilot most days, which is why I have the time to take on other tasks. I’d like to still be involved in that job, but in a slightly more technical way (think writing the code for a website rather than changing out the images), but I don’t know if that would be possible. I just learned some new processes that would streamline things for the company and I’d hate for that knowledge to go to waste.

    And while I think I’d love this new position, I’m worried I’d be micromanaged by the higher ups and I’d end up transcribing stuff, rather than developing something that would work.

    So, to the questions. I have absolutely no idea how to navigate this situation. Prior to this company, I was a job hopper. I’d work for a place, learn my job very well, ask for more responsibility/knowledge, would become a rock star, but when promotions came up, I’d be passed over, so I’d leave.

    When I started with my company, I was a low level employee who just wanted a job, so I took what they offered. Many years later, I realize I am very underpaid for what I bring to the table. So if and when a discussion happens about a potential promotion and pay, I want to be prepared, but I think they are going to think I’m crazy when I say I want X amount of money.

    I’ve been working on a list of every single thing I have done or can do and documents I’ve created, but I don’t know quite how to say, in a professional way, that I’ve worked my a** off, doing any and all thing that’s been asked of me, and my knowledge is more extensive than pretty much anyone else’s in the company.

    Ideally, I want double my current pay, a title with authority (I have to be able to push back with management types to do my job), and not have the higher ups undermine what I’m trying to do. That’s unlikely, but I have no idea about how to even begin to make that happen.

  126. KR*

    Question for the late crowd:
    I stopped working this spring. We were moving and I couldn’t take my job with me. At the time a contact with my old job (a company we worked with before) asked if he could help me in my job search. I didn’t answer because I have crippling anxiety and difficulty talking to people. I want to close the loop and tell him something to the effect of “I was very busy at the time and have meant to respond to you, so sorry I didn’t. I appreciate you reaching out.” But I don’t know the best way to put it. Help!!

    1. Bayta Darrell*

      I think you’re on the right track already! “Thank you for reaching out to me before. I’m sorry I did not get back to you then, but with everything going on with the move, things were very hectic. I just wanted to follow up with you to say it was very thoughtful of you to think of me and offer to help with my job search.” Then, of you’re not looking for a job, tell him so, but that you appreciated his offer anyway. If you are looking, tell him so, and say that if his offer for assistance is still on the table you’d appreciate any help he can give you.

    2. Nicotene*

      Since this was a kind offer of him, I think I’d use your basic script, but start with “dear (name) you were so kind to make this offer and I feel terrible that I got swamped at the time and failed to respond” – he will probably understand and appreciate that you circled back.

Comments are closed.