open thread – September 24-25, 2021

by Alison Green on September 24, 2021

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about (that includes school). If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please do not repost it here, as it may be in my queue to answer.

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  1. Collie*

    Last year I reached out (cold email) to someone in an area where I might like to work hoping to make a connection by way of asking about professional networks in the area and never got a response. I’m thinking of this area again and wondering, especially in light of the pandemic, if it’s reasonable to reach out again or if I should just take it as a loss. Thoughts?

    2. Tara*

      It’s hard to answer without more context.

      Are they in a very busy job?

      Did you actually ask to talk to them or just ask them a random question about professional networks?

      Did you give any info about yourself?

      1. Collie*

        – At the time, it’s possible they were closed (library). Workflow has varied a lot according to what admins expect from their libraries during the pandemic, so it’s hard to say whether this particular person was more or less busy than usual.

        – I can’t seem to find the original email I sent so I’m no 100% sure, but I recall asking fairly specifically about what options were available in the area (and possibly also specifics about their current programming) that would have led to further conversation. I probably included an option of phone or email.

        – Yes; definitely shared some about myself as part of the introduction.

        1. Tara*

          “that would have led to further conversation”

          Well, yes and no. If you just asked for that info and didn’t also express any interest in talking to that actual specific person, I can see why they didn’t reply.

    3. Yorick*

      I wouldn’t. It’s possible they just overlooked the message and would be responsive now, but it’s also (much more likely?) possible that you’d annoy them too much by sending a second message. I don’t think it’s worth the risk.

    4. MamaSarah*

      What about a quick call or stopping by for another purpose just to catch the vibes? At different points in SIP, I found email to be so annoying (it was totally me). FYI, in my profession, it’s typical to encourage persons who want to join the field.

      2. Tara*

        And I say that as someone who is not averse to phone calls and happy to help newcomers.

        It sounds like you kind of treated them like a human Google and forgot to actually express a wish to connect.

      3. Emma2*

        I have to say I would find this pretty aggressive and intrusive. Cold calling someone to try to get a networking discussion is essentially trying to corner them or force the conversation on them. While people may be willing to try to encourage others who want to enter their field, they also may not be able to assist or encourage everyone. I think it is appropriate to email someone to ask if you can arrange a call or a meeting, but they may not agree (and they may not respond) and that is their choice. We don’t have a right to other people’s time.

    5. Teapot Repair Technician*

      Are you trying to get into an organized network that you heard about, or are you trying to find out if such a network exists?

      1. Collie*

        The latter. I did some searching myself and expressed that in the email but wondered if there were more local/casual things that might not show up on an internet search.

        1. Teapot Repair Technician*

          I wouldn’t contact him again. Your first shot-in-the-dark was worth a try, but considering the network you’re looking for may not exist, it’s probably not worth pursuing further.

    7. Elle*

      If you had been reaching out to me, I wouldn’t mind you reaching out again. I am forgetful with a lot of things, and if I truly were not interested I would just ignore your email the second time too. No big deal.

    8. Hiring Mgr*

      I don’t think it’s a big deal to reach out to someone again after nearly a year, but i would think there are also plenty of others in that area you could try

    9. MissDisplaced*

      I think it’s worth one other try as long as you’re not being super pushy. I’d mention you tried to contact them back in X month. I say this because it is possible people didn’t see or forgot. But only do one more time and move on.

    10. Job Seeker*

      One of the keys to networking – in my opinion – is volume. Whether or not you reach out to this person again, try to reach out to several others as well. That way you increase your chances of getting a response, and you don’t put so much weight on trying to get a response from any one particular person.

      That said, I might reach out to this person again, too. I’d carefully write the message to ensure that it didn’t sound like I was annoyed that they didn’t reply in the past. People do get busy and emails get lost in inboxes.

      Make your ask easy to respond to and be clear that you don’t want to take up a lot of their time. Meeting by phone or Zoom are popular these days, so I wouldn’t ask to meet in person.

    11. Purple Cat*

      I feel like your approach may have been a little *off*.
      If someone randomly contacted me asking if I knew of any llama grooming organizations, and I didn’t, then I would ignore them and move on.
      If someone wanted to talk to me specifically about my experiences and expertise, then I might respond (although I don’t respond to obviously canned emails).
      I think a second attempt after a year isn’t egregious, but really think about why you thought this person was a good contact and what you would want personally from them that a google search can’t provide, and try again.

  2. Tiny company?*

    I’ve been interviewing at a company that has only 25 people. While the work looks right up my alley, and the three people I’ve met so far are nice, what are some questions I should ask about their operations because they’re so small? I’m in the USA.

    I know I need to ask about their medical leave policy because they’re not covered by FMLA. I’m not sure what salary to ask for either because there’s no salary information about this specific company online.

    1. Taryn*

      I’d probably ask what hats they’re expecting this role to wear…if it’s a teeny company, there’s a good chance that everyone pitches in with things outside of the scope of what you’d expect from their job title.

      1. Teapot Repair Technician*

        Agreed. At tiny companies, there’s often the expectation that everyone does everything. That can be fun, but also frustrating.

        As a tech writer working for a 30-person company, I enjoyed occasionally driving the forklift, but getting dragooned into counting nuts and bolts for “inventory week” was a real drag.

        1. Purple Cat*

          In fairness, I work for a large company and we drag EVERYBODY from Finance into helping with inventory. That’s the only way to get it done in the quick time frame required. If our company was only 30-people we’d grab people from all backgrounds…

          1. Vanilla Bean*

            Yes, but if you’re literally individually counting nuts and bolts rather than weigh counting them, you’re doing it wrong, unless they’re thousand-dollar spaceship nuts and bolts.

    2. Aquawoman*

      If it’s an owner-operator at the top, I’d ask what their management style is and listen for code words and obfuscating.

      1. Elle*

        this this this

        Every time I’ve worked at a small company you need to make very sure you vibe with the top dog AND that you aren’t getting any code-words from the staff (especially staff that recently left). Small places can get very dysfunctional very fast if there is one person with not-so-great attitudes at the top.

    3. Ex-Dog Coor*

      -company structure (like who reports to who, or if there’s a real structure at all, who you can refer to for support)
      -expectations for emergency work (if that applies; so something like what happens if there’s an urgent situation during off hours)
      -ask about ALL benefits, (including things like if a company computer is provided, if they expect you to use your personal phone, mileage/general reimbursement, stipends for computer/phone if not provided, plus the normal things like medical and retirement)
      -what duties are yours, and what duties you may be asked to help with (as Taryn pointed out, you may be asked to “pitch in” to help with other duties you wouldn’t have thought you would have to do)
      -work/life balance (in my experience, the smaller the company, the more of a “family” they claim to be, and the more they intrude on your off-the-clock time, or expect you to give of your off time)

      1. Analytical Tree Hugger*

        The work-life balance is a good area to check. Asking about “work-life” balance will probably just get you a flurry of vague buzzwords, so try asking about “typical work hours”, “busy seasons”, or “how often do staff work late/work after hours from home/work weekends.”

        1. Clara*

          I straight up ask a usually more junior person “how many days in the last week did you work after 6pm?” or whatever is appropriate in your role. They may say “oh last week was busier than normal” but at least you get a more concrete answer

        2. voluptuousfire*

          I ask about expected work hours. That usually nets a better explanation than “work-life” balance.

        3. Joielle*

          Once I asked about work-life balance and someone went “wellll….” and there was a long pause while the panel gave each other nervous looks, and then they sort of broke out into awkward laughter. They hurriedly tried to assure me that the work-life balance was ok, it was getting better, there are just a few big projects right now… but the message was pretty clear. I did not take that job, lol.

      2. Recruited Recruiter*

        Agreed with this one. I now work for a small, family owned company. As part of the management team, I get asked to take part in community charity events. I enjoy them, but make sure you know what kind of stuff you can expect outside of work hours.

    4. No Longer Gig-less Data Analyst*

      I previously worked for a company about that size and during the interview process was in much the same situation – the work was exactly what I wanted and I felt comfortable with the people I interviewed with. Unfortunately the place was a disastrous hotbed of dysfunction, which I might have been able to suss out if I had asked the following:

      – What does the company org chart look like? In my case, there were a whole lot of Directors and VPs for such a tiny org. These titles were handed out as ego boosts to favored employees with hardly any of the experience I normally associated with those roles.
      – What does HR look like? Is there a professional, qualified HR person in the chain of command, or is there just an office manager with no real HR training who can do payroll but not much else?
      – What is turnover like in a given year, and at what level? If the managers stay forever but lower level employees are a revolving door, RUN. The company I worked for had an average of 11 people quit or get fired per year in a 24 person company.
      – How many employees are related to the owner/CEO? My place was a mess of nepotism.

      1. Weisarom*

        Huge agreement with that last point. At my last company about that size, all mgmt positions were given to friends of the owner. Competence wasn’t required. Due to this kind of thing, there was a huge double standard and 2nd class citizenship in how rank and file and those mgrs were treated.

        Also, if it’s a small company, there may be no growth path. You may be stuck forever in whatever role you get hired into. A fun twist on this: your job functions may expand dramatically based on what skills you bring to the table, but since TPTB are used to seeing this role as it was beforehand, there may be much unwillingness to pay you fairly for the new expanded value you bring to the job.

    5. Brave Little Roaster*

      Definitely ask about PTO and what coverage is available for the position in order to be able to actually take PTO. See if this is a new role or if you’re replacing someone. For a small company, you might end up doing different work than the person you’d be replacing because of your relative difference in skills/interests.

    6. Lizy*

      If you’ve only ever worked in larger companies, ask how work is distributed, especially during busy times. For example, if you know one of the staff is marketing, and there’s a big annual conference, ask what help others are/will be expected to provide. It’ll be important to know how much time is actually spent on “your” job verses “other job duties as assigned” (meaning, help others with their job).

      Personally, I LOVE smaller companies like this (or at least, I love the ones I’ve worked with lol). I always felt welcome to talk with grand-boss and that my voice/opinion was heard, even if the company ended up doing something else. If I had too much work, it was easy for me to go to my boss and/or coworkers and ask for help. On the flipside, if there was a big event (or project or whatever), I definitely helped out and felt like my help was valued. I still spent the majority of the time doing “my” job – it was a pretty rare thing to help someone else do their job. However, we definitely had the culture where we all understood we were helping each other when needed. Where I’m at now, I’m still on the same “level”, but I feel a lot less… valued. I know my direct boss/supervisor values me, but on the company-level, I definitely feel more like a random minion rather than a valued voice/employee.

    7. Marie*

      – Advancement opportunities if you hope to grow your career there.
      – Are they planning to grow the company, and if so at what rate. I’ve been at a couple companies or teams that doubled in under a year and it was a wild ride that resulted in people who weren’t good managers getting promoted into high level management positions.
      – If it is relevant to the industry you can ask about things like on-call, answering phones, working evenings/weekends. Every small company I’ve been at has expected on-call or phone answering or both.
      – Performance reviews if that is important to you. I did two (small < 100 person) companies in a row and didn't get a performance review, and therefore a raise or a bonus, for 8 years. Not getting feedback on my skills also really annoyed me after a while.

      1. Amy Farrah Fowler*

        Definitely agree about advancement opportunities. In a small company it can go either way – if they grow quickly, it could mean that you get more advancement opportunities as they grow, but if they stay roughly the same size and don’t have much turnover or are a relatively flat hierarchy, there may not be room to grow after a few years.

    8. Vesuvius*

      One red flag I didn’t notice at old job was “tell us about the company culture” DURING the interview process (yes, seriously, wtf was this doing in there?). If you get any weird questions that give you a bad vibe, pay attention to them. For any role, get it in writing what kind of work you’re actually signing on to do. I worked at a small to medium sized firm, in a relatively small office, and there was a really bad ratio of middle managers to staff-level employees. If that is the case here, RUN. That is a very bad sign for any office. Usually staff are not promoted for skill if you have so many mid-level managers. If the firm pays more “in experience,” do a lot of research before signing on. If any of your interviewers gives you strange vibes, like mine did? At least an orange flag if not a red one.

      With regard to salary: if your field is lucrative enough, they should be offering something close to competitive. If they are not in a field where they really SHOULD be, that’s a big red flag. If you work in say, publishing, I would expect different salary norms than in my field (environmental). Smaller places still have to pay you somewhat competitively to keep you. If the pay doesn’t fit the industry norms I’d be very cautious about accepting a job with them. Even if it is a tiny company, they need to pay you enough for you to be willing to work for them. If it doesn’t fit the otherwise-accepted norms for your field and doesn’t have some comparable thing (i.e. really good benefits), then I would be cautious accepting that offer. Also, be wary of a place that has you just above the cutoff for Exempt work for a small firm, because in that instance you’re likely expected to do between 12h-16h days regularly, and work weekends. “Consistent bonuses” do not in any way make up for this and usually do not compare to CoL-adjusted wages or salary.

      With regard to general culture: In my field, there are a few companies that are known for scandals and enormous screwups. Because Environmental is a field that directly affects where people live (i.e. drinking water — yes, really!) these make the news. If there is a similar focus or political-undercurrent in your field, this is where you do due diligence. Even if not, there are some things you can do to check in on it. What kind of projects does the company do? Look at who interviewed you and the way the interviewers talk to each other. Does one person control the interviewing process? Do they ever admit that the company failed? Do they all seem to be looking at you as a person or have they immediately judged your cues and don’t care what you say?

      (My litmus test is currently: can an interviewer respond with patience, or do they get impatient when I have difficulty with a question or need a minute? If the interviewer responds sharply or is mean about it, I don’t want the job. If they are patient with me, that’s generally a good sign, especially if I have questions about their company and company culture.)

      And at any point, if your BS-o-meter is beeping, pay attention to it. Your gut feelings are very often correct!

    9. Nicotena*

      Ha sorry this doesn’t answer your question but in my segment of nonprofit, 25 would be considered quite a large organization. I would really like to work for one that large! I keep getting jobs with orgs that have 4-6 staff, depending on who quit recently, and it’s quite stressful. It’s always “all hands on deck.”

    10. Retired(but not really)*

      Most of my work experience has been with small companies. It is very common for a person to have a particular title reflecting why they do the core part of their job but for the job to expand randomly to include many other short term tasks that may be for only a couple hours up to a day or two. It can be totally fine or it can be annoying if it coincides with another task that is also time sensitive. Usually it’s pretty easy to determine which task has priority but sometimes it’s a toss up.
      That being said, I actually prefer the variety that this brings to the job plus the opportunity to learn all sorts of random skills that you never thought you’d ever use again but end up needing at a later date at another job.

      As far as questions to ask, for me an important one was the possibility of flexibility in coming in early and then leaving early for events my kids were involved in like band and sports or awards ceremonies at the end of school that were scheduled during the day.
      Also sick/vacation policy, what/how many holidays are paid.
      Good luck!

  3. should i apply?*

    Favorite work from home office upgrade? Since our going back to the office has been pushed off indefinitely, and even then it is supposed to be hybrid I am looking at making my office set up more permanent and less makeshift. What has been your best upgrade to make your work from home set up more comfortable and / or nice looking?

      2. bumbleblue*

        I cosign the magnetic whiteboard. I also have small whiteboard attachments for my monitors. It’s good for reminders to myself but is sooooooooooooo helpful when I have to give presentations and share my screen. I have a lot of training experience but I was not prepared for how often my mind would just go completely BLANK during virtual presentations. I never had that issue with in-person training.

    2. Yorick*

      I got some monitor risers that make it easier to look at my screens all day and gave me more space on my desk.

      1. Windchime*

        I got a clamp-on shelf for this purpose. It raises my monitors to the correct height and gives me room for things underneath. I also turned my desk so it faces the window; that gives me good light for being on camera and also allows me to see my rose bushes right outside. My router and modem were sitting on a cabinet behind me in plain sight and they looked untidy, so I bought a basket with a loose pattern and stuck my equipment in there. It looks so much better. Finally, I put a small side chair in the office so the cat has a place to nap near me if he wants to.

    3. DarthVelma*

      An HDMI splitter that lets me convert one of my monitors back and forth between being the 2nd screen for my home computer setup and a 2nd screen for my work laptop at the push of a button.

      1. KitKat2000*

        Someone in a previous thread suggested to me a KVM switch, which does that but for keyboard and mouse as well. It’s really handy!

    4. Elle Woods*

      About this time last year I bought myself a new desk and chair. The desk I had didn’t have enough flat space for me and my chair was at least 15 years old. Really glad I upgraded.

      1. New Commenter*

        Co-sign the chair–I bought Wirecutter’s recommended one and have not regretted the truly outrageous cost for a second.

      3. AVP*

        co sign on both of these! They’re really the only two things I’ve bought since starting to work from home (in 2019) and they’re essential. If you’re still just working at the kitchen table, do what you need to do to create a real “work only” area with a good chair and desk. It really, really helps that you won’t have to clean it off each night for other uses.

      4. A*

        Ugh, this is going to be me in the near future. When I bought my beautiful antique writers desk I was WFH one day a week – I’ve been able to get by thus far with just my work laptop to avoid having to find tiny monitors that fit the limited flat space, but need to upgrade for the long term. I’m still holding out hope of finding a second monitor with a small enough foot print to fit, but an slowly coming to accept I may need to switch to a modern boring, but functional, flat desk :(

        1. No Sleep Till Hippo*

          You might try looking into portable monitors – I have a 14″ one that matches my laptop screen size and it’s super useful in my limited space! A lot of them work over USB-C instead of HDMI, which I’ve also found useful.

          YMMV, of course, but I love my little two-screen setup and now when I’m using a full size monitor I get a little agoraphobic… Too much space, lol.

      1. Nessun*

        Same! Finally reclaiming my dining table instead of shoving all the work stuff to one side each Friday evening.

    6. Opaque_Chatterbug*

      Standing/sitting convertible desk (+ fatigue mat). Flexispot’s been having some regular sales, this helps me immensely when presenting. I speak way better when standing, but sit when tasking.

      1. cubone*

        fatigue mat was key! I got one that has like a lip on the edge, so I can rest my foot or stretch out my calf (the way you might by placing the ball of your foot against a wall) and I love it.

          1. cubone*

            oh, it’s at the back (front?) of the mat. Like when I stand it is on the edge that my toes point towards, so no tripping risk (though I have seem some on 3 sides, which seems like it would be hazardous)

        2. Opaque_Chatterbug*

          aa, mine goes the other way, the middle is raised up and it’s beveled down around the edges. I’ve tried a co-worker’s bumpy fatigue mat (before we were all sent home) but it was a bit too weird for me.

          I think mine’s a kitchen-style I got that fits perfect under my desk. I just push it back under when I don’t need it.

      3. Totalanon*

        Second the sit-stand desk. Only upgrade I’ve bothered with, so worthwhile. I got a ~$250 one from Walmart. It’s manual to raise (as opposed to mechanized/motorized), but that is fine with me.

      4. Clisby*

        My husband has this, and loves it (also has the risers for monitors). He also would co-sign “get a real office chair.”

    7. Lizzie*

      Mine aren’t much as I don’t have space I can dedicate to an actual office, and work from my dining room table, but I got a larger, ergonomic keyboard, a laptop stand so it kind of sits like a desktop, and a full size monitor. I also got a mesh metal double drawer stand to put my monitor on. its not the best, but it works well enough for me as moving isn’t an option.

    8. cubone*

      my office is switching to permanent remote so I kinda went all out, but a motorized sit/stand desk was super worth it in my opinion. If that’s too much for you, proper monitor/computer risers, or a sit/stand coverter (the kind that go one top of an existing desk).

      Quality chair was also key. I got the Secret Lab chair (which is a gamer one, but it’s black and pretty simple and my gosh, it is incredible and was so worth it)

    9. AnonEMoose*

      I got two 27-inch monitors fairly inexpensively at Costco, plus a pair of very adjustable monitor mounts that make it easy to move the monitors exactly where I want them.

    10. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      A keyboard with physical (mechanical?) switches that’s split in two pieces (a cord connects them).

    11. Three Seagrass*

      I redid my entire work from home setup when my work announced we are going hybrid permanently. I bought a used desk (actually a workbench) that can go up and down, a laptop stand, an arm for my new ultrawide monitor so I can move it around and it isn’t sitting on my desk, and made a keyboard tray. There are no cords in sight (I wrapped them all up and stored them in a basket under the desk) and I can use the top of my desk for note taking, rather than having a keyboard take up all the room. It is dreamy.

    12. a tester, not a developer*

      An old fashioned corkboard that I covered with fancy patterned cardstock. It can be swapped out if I feel like a change. I’m left handed so whiteboards are just a fancy way to cover myself in markers.

    13. TooManyCooks*

      A good desk chair. Like for real, a good chair. I bought a used Herman Miller Aeron chair on craigslist for about $350. A new one sells for $1k. Best investment I ever made.

    14. Thin Mints didn't make me thin*

      37″ monitor. If I’ve got to experience the world through a screen, it might as well be an AWESOME screen.

    15. Ama*

      Honestly one of the best adjustments I made was rearranging my space so I have a designated place in my closet to put away all of my workstation items (laptop/keyboard/mouse/paper notebook) in my closet when I am not working. Since I work in a tiny room that also serves as my crafting/sewing space and my wardrobe, it was stressing me out that on weekends/days off I couldn’t even get dressed without seeing my work stuff — and if I wanted to get out my sewing machine I had to pile everything onto the floor and then move it back when I was done. Having a place where I can put the work stuff where I don’t have to look at it but that only takes me about five minutes to get back out on Monday morning/first day after vacation has really helped me put a clearer line between work and nonwork.

      1. Totalanon*

        I went a step further and arranged my closet so I could work in it as a separate workspace. I feel like a pleb working in my closet compared to my coworkers with lovely WFH backgrounds, but I just use a fake background.

      2. Lizzie*

        I actually do this as well. While my “spot” isn’t out of sight, its off my dining room table, and on a small chest that’s at the end of the table, right under my window. that to me says i’m done with work, and while I can still see it, its not as visible as when its covering most of my DR table. I put it back Sunday nights right before I go to bed, and its wokred well for me.

    16. TechWriter*

      Second monitor and laptop stand. The second monitor has always been necessary, but the laptop stand brings the laptop screen up to a comfortable viewing height and also makes it a bit more seamless to extend the desktop to use two programs side by side. If you’re working from a desktop, just a second monitor in general!

      ‘Docking station’ AKA USB hub that plugs as many of your peripherals in as possible. A must with two of us working from home. We switch who gets the “good” office weekly (the one with more windows and plants; both have an external montior and good chair!)

      Also a really good chair, if you don’t have one already.

    19. Put the Blame on Edamame*

      A heated electric throw blanket to wrap around the non-zoom visible bits of ne when it was cold, or I had cramps, or when I needed a cuddle. Best pandemic purchase, hands down.

    20. Let me be dark and twisty*

      Desk edge protector! It’s 18 inches of padded rubber that I stuck on the edge of my desk. It keeps the desk’s sharp edges from digging into my arms and causing strain in my wrists and hands while working on my computer. It’s a little ergonomic and has been really helpful. (I have an Ikea desk/table so the edges are pretty severe. Bought the desk edge protector from Amazon. Both are in black so it kinda blends together from a distance.)

      I also liberated an old ottoman from my parents’ garage sale pile that I use as a footrest under my desk.

      1. Seven If You Count Bad John*

        Cosign the ottoman! I finally pulled the one from the living room that was just in the way unused (because of the way we have it laid out) and put it under the desk, now I can put my feet up and lean back further in my chair.

    21. Delta Delta*

      I bought a very nice desk. Mr. Delta also has been WFH and bought himself one (similar but different) as well.

      I’m also a huge fan of my AirPods, which aren’t necessarily an ‘upgrade’ per se, but I was able to get them as part of a WFH upgrade grant and they’ve become my new best friends.

    22. Student*

      Room divider screen. Helps cut my office area from my apartment, since I don’t have the space to dedicate a whole room to work-from-home. Also provides a good backdrop for video calls.

      1. Birdie*

        Yes, I got a bookshelf that I use to divvy my work corner off from the rest of the living room! It’s backless and a stair-step style (so not quite as wide up top), which keeps it from feeling too cramped and lets the light from the windows reach the whole room. But it’s enough that I can’t see my work space out of the corner of my eye when I’m sitting on or standing by the couch, or vice versa, and that really makes a huge difference for me, mentally. Before I got the shelf, I basically gave up using the living room for anything leisure-oriented and spent any non-work time in the bedroom or kitchen. It’s definitely been the best addition to my WFH space.

      2. Might Be Spam*

        I bought a room divider too. It’s two vertical tension poles with a crossbar. I’ve been hanging holiday tablecloths like curtains.

    23. Cute Li'l UFO*

      I bought a secondhand barely used Aeron chair in 2019 for $300 after a lot of stalking on Craigslist and earlier this year I bought a nicer desk that’s vintage from FB Marketplace. It has drawers and it’s a much more reasonable size.

      I also bought some color-changing LED strip lights from IKEA because more lights = more fun. I worked from home on and off for 7 years but in the last year I’ve really made my desk a work-centric space.

    24. Xenia*

      Multiple monitors! I got a decent 27” at Costco to supplement the one my work supplies me with and wow, what an absolute game changer. No more flipping between 5 different apps on my laptop screen

    25. MissDisplaced*

      When our trip got cancelled in March 2020, and it looked like this was going to be around for a while, I took the money and redid our home office. I bought 2 big L-shaped corner desks, 2 rolling drawer units, a new rug and pull down shades, and a big office lateral file cabinet I lucked out on and got used for $40. I had some nice chairs “rescued” from a former job, but if you don’t have a good chair it’s worth spending the money on one. In all, I spent perhaps $1200.

      The big L desks made a HUGE difference in my WFH quality. Previously, I had an antique teacher’s desk for my Mac+ a cheap side table I used for my work computer/monitor. It was the wrong height, so it was killing my back! If you work on multiple monitors it’s a must. I love being able to turn to each easily. If I had room though, I would also add a standing desk, but alas my office is too small.

    26. Fernie*

      Houseplants. I never had them in my office cubicle because I had no natural light. The fact that I am with them every day means it’s much easier to keep them alive and healthy.

    27. Retired(but not really)*

      Had the option to upgrade internet to fiber optic instead of my phone’s hotspot. Actually decreased my overall cost as well as dramatically increased WiFi capability.
      Other best thing is a truly comfortable chair that adjusts properly to fit my long legs and tweaky back.

  4. curly sue*

    CV length for higher ed administration?

    I had a number of different non-academic jobs in my life before going back to school, had regular adjunct positions since, but now I’m applying for a position on the admin side (grant administration). I’ve got a reasonable cover letter worked up, but the CV is throwing me off. I know that academic CVs and non-academic ones are different, but is the rule still two pages max for non-academic resumes? Is that the same for admin positions in higher ed?

    I was so pleased when I finally had enough conferences and publications on my academic cv as a fairly recent grad to get it to a respectable five pages, and the two-page ‘professional highlights’ version just looks so inadequate by comparison!

    1. Wordnerd*

      I work in the Learning Support/Retention areas in higher ed – so not grant admin but also not academic, and I would say you do want to swing back to shorter. Folks with really long academic CVs stand out as just being not what the rest of the applicants are submitting. Plus I would also say that the other folks working in grant administration are less likely to have come from teaching and might not really understand what academic CVs look like.
      If the info is online, you could look at the backgrounds of the people who already work in grant admin at this university (or maybe nearby universities if the info is hard to come by) and feel out if they’re all previous academics or not.
      Good luck!

      1. curly sue*

        Thank you! There isn’t a lot of information about backgrounds available but I can see that most of the upper-level staff have PhDs. including the person currently holding the posted position. So that’s encouraging!

        I took all my academic work off the CV when shortening it, under the assumption that they really wouldn’t be interested in my publications or ‘invited talks’ lists. Should I make some reference to those, do you think, or will they ask if they’re interested?

        1. fueled by coffee*

          When I’ve applied to academic-adjacent non-academic jobs, I’ve either listed an abbreviated list of “selected publications” or tried to mention it elsewhere in the resume (I usually list a general ‘Doctoral researcher’ or whatever position and add a line saying “published X number of peer reviewed papers and presented at Y conferences,” without specifying all the details, since it’s not really relevant.

          For grants admin, I could see maybe including this when talking about grants that you’ve received? Something like “Secured research funding from Grant Organization which resulted in a publication in the Journal of Llama Wrangling” or whatever.

        2. Wordnerd*

          Definitely agree with Lisa B – refer to it in cover letters in a way that shows how it strengthens your candidacy for this job, and highlight the most outstanding accomplishments on the resume.

          We have folks in our assessment and retention departments with PhDs but who didn’t spend much time in the classroom or the conference/publications arena.

        3. Nesprin*

          Am an academic, but when I shorten I do this:

          Selected publications (from ###, full list on googlescholar)
          Pub 1
          Pub2

      2. Birdie*

        I agree. I work in higher ed administration (specifically academic affairs), and I prefer candidates for non-academic positions to submit a more standard resume over an academic CV. As documents, they have a different purpose and focus, and I generally find a CV less useful for these kinds of jobs. My recommendation would be a two page resume, but do reference the additional aspects of your career, perhaps in the cover letter. If you have your full CV online, you might also include a link with your contact information so someone can seek it out if they are particularly interested in the academic extras.

        That said…is this grant administration related to your particular field of study or a more centralized office? If the former, do a lot of the current employees in that office have directly relevant PhDs? If so, they might be more interested in seeing the details of your academic pedigree, but a shorter resume + linking the full CV would probably still cover your bases.

    2. Lisa B*

      Higher ed administration here! For a non-academic position I would keep to the 2 pages. In your case I would highlight in your cover letter that your extensive experience on the academic side with publications and conference presentations makes you appreciate what faculty and researchers go through and how that will help you make their role as painless as possible. You could pull in just a few to your resume that were particularly noteworthy, esp if they won an award or were a top selection by your peers, and make a note that a complete listing of your conferences and publications is available upon request. If you put too many I would wonder if you really understood the admin side of the house.

    3. Tequila & Oxford Commas*

      Higher ed adminstration here too, but on the non-academic side of the operation — I’d expect a resume (not a CV, which is how you can tell I’m not an academic!) to be no more than two pages. I’ve been in the field for almost 20 years and when I changed schools last year, my resume was one page, single-sided.

    4. Abax*

      Hiring manager in a university central grants office. We don’t care how many pages your resume is, although 5 pages would be way too much. What we care about is your experience and skills in shepherding a grant through the application and award processes. I would bullet point that at the top of the resume. I will say that we sometimes get applications from investigators whose funding has dried up, and their experience as an investigator isn’t always applicable to the actual grants admin processes.

      2. curly sue*

        This is all great information – thank you! It’s tricky because there are so many people jumping off the adjunct treadmill these days, but I really don’t want to give the impression that this is some kind of second-choice option. I’m not chasing TT lines, even if they start becoming more available.

    5. CCC*

      Also in higher ed. Are they asking for a resume or a CV? If they want a resume that’s what you should give them, and I’d say any more than 2 pages is overkill.
      When we have an opening, we always get adjuncts applying. We always ask for a resume, never a CV. It’s not helpful for us to read through all the publications, conferences attended, etc. Usually anyone who turned in a CV gets cut right away; it just feels like they couldn’t follow the directions, take the time to research resumes vs. CVs, or take the time to think about what is useful/relevant. Turning in an academic CV for a nonacademic role kind of says “I’d rather be full-time faculty but that’s not working, so now I’m applying to staff jobs.”
      (Note: this is US based advice, I think resume/CV are more interchangeable in some countries)

      1. curly sue*

        It actually asks for both, in a way: “Résumé / Curriculum Vitae (CV)” It’s a bit more interchangeable up here, and I believe the ‘tell me about your work history’ document is always called a CV in Quebec, whatever the format. Because it’s admin, I’m assuming the usual definition of non-academic resume.

        2. CCC*

          I’d go with something more non-academic than academic in that case, but sections that you typically see in a CV and not often in resumes like publication history and speaking engagements would be okay to include if they are relevant. I do think there’s good hybrid ideas out there– like listing publications CV style, and bulleting out specific accomplishments beneath the publications resume style. It’s likely that whatever the topic of the paper was isn’t important for this job, but how you got the funding, what the reporting requirements were, etc. probably are.

          1. curly sue*

            That makes sense – thank you! I’ve got a little bit of space to include a couple of grant-supported things, and then use LisaB’s suggestion to add a line about making my full list available on request.

    6. Lemon Zinger*

      I work in university admissions. It should be a resume, not a CV. No more than two pages, please! (This is just my experience in this particular functional area)

    7. Eukomos*

      You want a normal two-page resume for higher ed staff jobs. Remember resumes are different, it’s not a comprehensive reference document like a CV, it’s a quick summary to explain why your background is a good match for the job.

      1. Bon voyage*

        Just seconding this as someone who recently was in a similar position to the LW! About a fifth of my 2-page resume was about my research, and only as it related to the direct responsibilities of the job. My cover letter emphasized why I wanted the job and how my professional experiences–especially non-CV-worthy work!–directly applied to the role. (A pet peeve of mine is academics who think that their narrow research experiences automatically qualify them for “alt ac” jobs of all stripe, so if you have direct professional experience to draw on, make sure to include it!)

  5. General Organa*

    I applied and am a finalist for a job with a posted salary range that was listed as “New York, DC, or remote.” I’m located in a large city that is neither of those, and they just told me months into the process that if I want to stay remote, the salary will be lower than the range due to cost of living. It doesn’t sound like they had a pre-existing system for this, which would have been annoying but fine, but are working it out on the fly. Does anyone have any ideas on how best to negotiate? I think I will still take the job if they offer me near the bottom of the posted range, but probably not below it, and I’m now feeling a little sour on the process. Thanks!

    1. Reba*

      It is annoying that this is coming up later in the process, but it’s a really common and pretty reasonable policy so I don’t think you should let this alone sour you on the company! (If this is just one more flag about processes that aren’t thought out, or how they treat employees, that might be a different matter.)

      I would say, do your own research on the cost of living in your city, compared to NYC/DC, and ask them to tell you how they are calculating COL differences. I also think it would be fine to say, in the course of that convo, “I understand cost of living adjustments to the pay range, but I want to be candid with you that I would not be excited about this role if it came in below the posted range.”

      Good luck!

    2. Ann Perkins*

      I think we’ll see more and more companies that hire remotely factor in cost of living. It doesn’t make sense to pay NY salary to someone who lives in Kansas. In addition to what Reba said, I would also ask if there’s a system in place to factor in adjustments if you were to ever relocate to a different city.

      1. Lizzie*

        I think you’re right. My company, whose HQ where I work, is in a higher COL area already has a salary differential for our office vs. the few others we have in different, much lower COL states.

      2. Aquawoman*

        I agree it makes sense not to pay someone in Topeka DC rates, but it also doesn’t make sense to pay someone in Boston the same rate as someone in Topeka.

      3. New Mom*

        I’m curious about that though, what if the applicant is living in a higher COL area or similar? I wonder if the companies will still try to pay lower if the person is not in their general area.

        For example, job is based in DC but the applicants are from NYC or SF.

        1. AcademiaNut*

          Basically, they’re paying a premium for in person presence (full or part time) in high COL areas. If the position is fully remote, the don’t pay the premium. From the employer’s perspective, the fact that the prospective employee has chosen to live in SF or NYC isn’t their issue – with a fully remote job, they could, theoretically, live wherever they wanted.

          It sucks for people who are already in high COL areas, who aren’t able to easily relocate, but it’s the inverse of the previous problem. In the past, big cities produced a lot more and better career opportunities in some fields (finance, tech, government, for example), and people who weren’t in a position to relocate were locked out. Now those people have a much better chance at the jobs.

          1. Working Hypothesis*

            Honestly, I would feel more comfortable with this if they left the whole COL thing out of it and just said openly, “We feel that people who work in person in the office provide more value than those who work remotely, so we pay them more. We’re still happy to hire remote employees because they do plenty to make us enthusiastic about having them, but in-person staff offers a little extra, so we compensate them a little extra.” Pay should be about what value you provide to the company; where you live has nothing to do with it. But I can understand if people who do the little things that come from being at the office but nobody thinks about until they happen, from informally mentoring the new employee fresh out of college to opening the mail, get paid more than people who do their official jobs but nothing else.

    3. Aquawoman*

      I’d suggest looking up your area’s cost of living versus DC and NY and “rest of the country” (the fed government has locality pay for basically every part of the country, so you could check that). You may be able to convert DC-pay to your-city pay and ask for that.

      1. Grits McGee*

        Yes, the GS pay scales are super helpful for this- I think the OPM website includes the percentage higher each locality is from the base pay.

    4. Hawkeye is in the details*

      I disagree with the above commenters. The only reason it should pay less is if being remote causes you to not be able to do some duties that can only be done on-site, like go into the office once a month or so.

      The value of the work you do for the company does not change based on where you live, if your duties would be the same as someone living in NY. After all, if you base it on things like that, then people with dependents and bigger mortgages/rent should get paid more, even within one city. Also, if your landlord raises your rent, can you submit your new lease to your bosses for a raise?

      I don’t think this argument will sway many companies, but it should.

      I would ask if not being in one of those cities causes a reduction in responsibilities, and if they reply it does not, gently say something along the lines of, “I believe salary should be based on value brought to the company, not my personal costs, such as rent.” And then stop talking and see what they say.

      1. cmcinnyc*

        I get your point, but if I was told “we won’t pay you a NY salary because we believe the work is the work” I would end my candidacy. Because I live in NY and getting that $ is essential. So this basically argues for what amounts to a big pay boost for everyone in Topeka and scrape-by pay rate in NYC. If I was hiring I’d expect my Topeka-person-making-NY-bank to be an absolute rock star. As in: life isn’t fair.

      2. Purple Cat*

        I agree with this “in theory” HOWEVER, cost of living is a real thing, and market rates are a real thing. The real-life experiment we’re living in, is will enough employees move OUT of the current high COL areas to bring down the rent and start evening out COL around the country. The drawback to that is that “cheap” places to live now become more expensive and that will hurt employees who have to stick with local companies and can’t leverage a higher pay that remote-based company might offer.

      3. Ann Perkins*

        The value by dollar amounts is different though as it relates to candidates in different cities, since the value of a dollar is literally different by location. A job can still be, let’s say an 8/10 on the difficult to find candidate and seniority scale, but what 8/10 translates to in dollars is different across the country.

      4. _wirving_*

        There should be equity in pay (equal value for equal work), but the value of a dollar is unequivocally different in Topeka vs. NYC. Companies should strike a balance by paying comparable, but not necessarily equal, wages, so everyone gets the same value for their salary.

    5. MissDisplaced*

      If they were planning to pay a NYC city for an NYC worker.. I get it.
      I think you have to do the research on what this role pays in YOUR city and go from there. Who knows, their offer might still be higher than similar roles in your area despite the lower expectations for NYC or DC.

      It’s funny though, I have never noticed that DC based companies actually paid any higher salaries than say Philly or Boston or Baltimore. The two cities you most notice this with is San Francisco and NYC. I can attest that Los Angeles salaries were crap when I lived there.

  6. The Limit Does Not Exist*

    Yesterday I was filling out a job application and it had a required question for “maximum salary requirement” (in addition to minimum salary requirement) and I wasn’t quite sure what to do with that. What’s the point of asking that? I put the largest amount (this is an executive-level position requiring a lot of experience), but… are there really people who would say no to more money than they asked for? “Oh no, I couldn’t possibly!”

    1. Yorick*

      It’s silly if you think of it as a maximum they’d take the job for. But if you think of it as the top of the range they’re looking for now, it does make more sense.

      1. Analytical Tree Hugger*

        Agreed. As I’ve designed mini-databases, I could see myself designing one with that phrasing and not realizing that’s terrible phrasing in this context.

      2. MissDisplaced*

        RightO: I think it is just the system form has no way to accommodate a “range” thus the Min and Max.

    3. Lady Lynn Waterton of Bellashire*

      What the heck?! Can you put in $0 or X or something like that? So weird. This is a lose-lose for you and I honestly think that’s a red flag.

      1. The Limit Does Not Exist*

        No it was a drop-down menu… My minimum is fairly high so it wasn’t TOO outrageous, but it was still pretty ridiculous. They are trying to recruit me so we will see what happens.

      1. RobotBee*

        I put in the number 10. What does it mean? I don’t know, but I hope it suggests We can discuss it later. For reference I’m more motivated by the work and culture than the salary. It varies greatly in engineering since work weeks can be 40- 80 hours.

    6. Bean Counter Extraordinaire*

      “I will take this job for $257,534.26 and not a penny more, do you hear me??” *shakes fist*

    8. Purple Cat*

      This just makes absolutely no sense. No employee has a maximum they’re willing to work for.

      How high did the drop-down go??

      1. The Limit Does Not Exist*

        The highest level was “over $300,ooo”. My minimum is already in the six figures but not that high. I selected it anyway – if they want to pay me over $300k, I’ll take it!

    10. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

      are there really people who would say no to more money than they asked for? “Oh no, I couldn’t possibly!”

      I’ve walked away from recruitment where the salary has been beyond my skills. An employment situation has to be win/win to be stable; I have to be bringing more value to the table than I’m being paid. If I’m being paid more than that, I become attractive ballast to cut if things get tight or even if I make a small mistake. It’s a bad position to be in if the employment offer is based on an implausibly quick growing into the role.

      It’s rare and my being crazy is a running joke, so YMMV.

      1. Product Person*

        And that’s a good consideration. The minute a layoff happened in my previous employer, the director, product management making $195K a year doing similar work of a peer with a more compatible salary of $158K was the first to be let go…

  7. Scoffrio*

    I’m really struggling with how to word my discontent to my boss. I’ve been working there six months and he’s walked back a bunch of the promises that were made when he hired me — I stressed how important having a team member was and he assured me that there was someone else on my team and then promptly fired them and only told me when I showed up for my first day, told me I could work from home one day a week and then took it away after three months, told me my job would be supervising but won’t relegate any authority to me for me to do so (and fired the team member I would have been supervising). I’m obviously considering leaving the job but would like to give him an opportunity to realize what he’s been doing just in case it’s not really in bad faith (though I think it is at this point). Any advice on how to phrase things? Every time I try it comes out…angry.

    1. ThatGirl*

      I think practicing saying it out loud a few (dozen) times might help you say it more dispassionately, but it’s also totally legit to be frustrated by this! “Boss, I’m frustrated by how things are going. You told me I’d have a team member, but you let Philomena go, which means I can’t get the butterfly report done on time and have nobody to cross-check my work; you told me I could work from home and then changed your mind… can you tell me what’s going on?”

      That said, as I’m writing this out I’m thinking your boss might just suck and isn’t going to change, so you have to decide if it’s even worth raising.

      1. Scoffrio*

        Thanks for the validation, I didn’t realize that that’s what I was looking for a little, and it really helped to see you write that I’m not crazy for being super frustrated and wanting to quit over this.

    2. 867-5309*

      Before saying anything, given it seems like he has very recently fired two other people, make sure this will not put your job at risk. It might not be worth it.

      If you decide to have the conversation, you could approach it as a 6-month conversation. “Thanks for having a six-month check-in with me. I wanted to talk with you about a few things we discussed prior to my starting that seem to have changed and see if you have specific feedback for me. Originally, my role was going to be part of a bigger team and have supervisory responsibilities, along with being able to work from home one day a week. Those things seem to have changed and I was hoping to get some insight into what to expect going-forward?”

      2. Scoffrio*

        They were the same person, but yes, I am worried about that too. I have already started looking, and am experiencing a lot of burnout so have decided that I’d be okay if I did leave immediately (though being fired scares me), I would just take some time to recover from burnout and search for jobs. That isn’t my first plan of action though because this job pays me very well.

        Thanks so much for the language (both of you)!

      3. Mockingjay*

        If you do have the 6-month convo, suggest you pick just a few items to address with Boss. What top things do you really want/need to resolve? You’re more likely to get a positive response with one or two ‘reasonable’ requests than a laundry list.

      1. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

        Agreed. This sounds like it’s going to accelerate the deterioration rather than reverse course.

    4. I'm that guy*

      You should be applying for other jobs. Your boss lied to you a bunch and talking to him isn’t going to make it better. In fact, based on his willingness to fire people, talking to him may lead to your being fired as soon as he can find a replacement.

    5. cubone*

      “would like to give him an opportunity to realize what he’s been doing just in case it’s not really in bad faith.”

      Maybe I’m just cynical at this point, but so many times I have wanted to “give someone an opportunity tor realize what they’ve been doing” and you know… I think most people either already know what they’re doing, or don’t care (and sometimes both). I think 867 below has the best possible script, but do you have any evidence otherwise of this person taking available opportunities to change their behavior? I get that it’s good to give someone a chance to explain themselves (see the response to the letter about the employee “manual” today), but rarely have I ever seen that work in an upward direction at work (and if it does, it’s usually with the kind of boss who wouldn’t get themselves into this situation to begin with).

      Usually when I practice saying something and it only comes out angry (aka all my glassdoor review drafts for my last job), I can see that what I really want is retribution, acknowledgement, closure, etc… and I don’t think I’ve ever gotten it. I’d say you already have your answers and it’s time to move on.

    6. Princess Flying Hedgehog*

      The alternative to the boss not operating in “bad faith” would be, I think, a boss who is ignorant and obtuse. Occasionally you need to walk back promises, but when you do, you should be transparent and treat it seriously (it’s not something you should do lightly).
      Trying to figure out if your boss is operating in bad faith or not is a red herring. Clearly, for whatever reason, your boss does not value you, nor is your boss is any way committed to being a decent manager.
      This is not a problem you can fix. Start searching!

    7. Anonymous Koala*

      nth-ing the advice to start searching…but if you do decide to have a conversation, I’d approach it as a general conversation where you gauge your boss’s overall happiness with your performance and your future at the org as well as voice your concerns about your boss’s flakiness. At my org, work from home is only taken away if people’s performance indicates that they are not capable of working from home, and that coupled with the dragging feet on supervisory responsibilities makes me worried that this is part of a larger concern on your boss’s part about your readiness for increased responsibility. Maybe I’m way off base, but I’d try and gauge how happy your boss is with your performance before you advocate to get those things, even though you were promised them and your boss should tell you directly if they have concerns about your work. And def start searching, there’s a lot of hiring right now and you might find a better fit somewhere else.

    8. Girasol*

      Could you remind Boss of the specific items that were promised, note that there obviously were some short term issues, but how soon would you be able to go back to the job as promised? You could take the attitude and tone of someone who thinks that of course they always meant to give you what they promised, and maybe not sound so angry.

    9. learnedthehardway*

      I’d be starting to look for a new role. I could understand firing someone and that just not being something the hiring manager could avoid, but it doesn’t sound like the person is being replaced, meaning YOU are the replacement (and the promise of a team to work with and someone to supervise was a lie). Also, unless you have real performance issues (which would perhaps require closer supervision), then it looks like he waited until you were embedded in the role and then took away a perk that was important to you. I would be concerned that any future promises from this manager – eg. about career growth, pay raises, etc. etc. – would simply be lies designed to keep you in the role.

      In your shoes, I’d start my job search, and take your time to find a great company and manager. Don’t rush or accept the first thing that comes along, but make sure to do your own due diligence. Then, make your move when you’re ready.

    10. Cold Fish*

      I see in the comments that the team mate & supervisee was to be the same person. Could you address that part of the conversation. Something like “Hey boss, it’s been 6 months since Philomena was let go. Is that position going to be filled any time soon? And if they are reporting to me, would it be possible for me to take the lead in the job search?”

      Take it one issue at a time. Save the entire “You know, you walked back a bunch of the promises that were made when I took the job. This position turned out to be much different that what I was led to believe.” conversation to the exit interview. Then if they are just oblivious they can work on it for the next hire.

      1. Lady_Lessa*

        At my previous job, I was responsible for the lab tech, and I was NEVER part of the interviewing process. I was always just given one that management thought would be a good fit.

        They sent me to management classes, but I have the responsibility but not any authority. Like I couldn’t do anything about attendance.

        Eventually, I was let go by a new supervisor, but toward the foreseen end, she was trying to get me to get evidence to terminate one that she had encouraged to come to us. (after we bought their company)

    11. Purple Cat*

      Type out bullet points for yourself of the things you want to address. Read and re-read them to make sure they are “factual” and not “Feelings”.
      Then you can either send them to your boss and schedule a meeting to discuss. Or print the list to have it as a reference point in front of you. For me, having something to physically hold on to helps to manage my emotions during difficult discussions. It also gives you something to “look away” at.

      Good luck!

    12. Karlee*

      I like the 6 month check-in idea. You can also note that the position has changed since he originally hired you and you’re wondering if he has thought about how the position might evolve over the next year and whether or not he expects it to include a team, supervision, or remote work (or anything else you want, even if it wasn’t part of the original job). If you need to soften it, you can say that you’d like to be sure you’re focusing on your own professional development in a way that’s aligned with how he thinks the position might grow.

  8. Jellyman Kelly*

    I’m a (relatively) new manager and facing some insecurities both in terms of being a good manager and being a good employee to my manager. Definitely feeling some moments when I’m being pulled in different directions and thought it might be helpful to ask the commentariat…

    What are some skills/tips/tricks you wish you had known when you first started managing people?

    1. 867-5309*

      Take LinkedIn learning or other leadership training. Many people become managers due to their “technical” work capabilities but most organizations do very little in terms of training for leaders. It is a big miss. Look up things around situational leadership, be open to giving and receiving feedback, etc. I also think Alison has several articles you can read that would be helpful.

    2. Lisa B*

      So many REALLY uncomfortable conversations could have been avoided with one minorly uncomfortable conversation taking place early on.

    3. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      These are pretty basic:

      *Include a standing item in 1:1’s with my manager to discuss how things are going with my direct report(s). Not every time, but maybe once a month
      *Setup a handoff meeting (I hate that phrase) when a direct report transfers to a different manager
      *Have a priority list, so I am clear on what my manager needs, what my direct report(s) need, and where they are relative to one another in priority.

    4. I'm Going Down to the Library*

      The advice that has been most helpful to me is to give yourself time–time to learn the role and your team as a whole but also time in specific situations. As a new manager, I often felt pressured to have or know answers immediately, and that’s not what people necessarily expect! I make much better decisions (especially about stressful situations) by letting the person know I need time before answering or deciding. This can go for things with my direct reports and things as an employee for my own manager. The other thing seems basic, but true communication and transparency go such a long way. I always tell people that I err on the side of over-communicating, but 9 times of out of 10, I find that people are lacking context to decisions being made that directly affect them! Any context you’re able to share will go a long way with getting people on board for decisions and new things. Finally, if you’re worried about it at all–you’re probably already doing a great job! :-) We can all improve on things until forever, but if you’re seeking out advice and evaluating yourself and how things are going, I think that’s a great sign.

    5. Decidedly Me*

      – Don’t be afraid to ask your manager for help – I have learned so much from mine by asking for tips, tricks, and advice on different situations I’ve run into
      – Don’t forget that some things DO need to be escalated to your manager and if they step in on some things, it doesn’t mean you’re doing something wrong
      – Learn how your team likes to receives feedback – some need it/want it more frequently than you may think
      – Address issues in the moment
      – Be open to feedback and ideas

    6. cubone*

      I feel like i’ve said this in a few open threads and I just want to swear that I am not a paid shill! … but I regularly recommend the book Radical Candor by Kim Scott to new managers, as I think it gives some really practical tools and principles on how to give good feedback. Personally, it changed my mindset a lot and I have found that it’s always been a good recommendation when anyone says they’re worried about “being a good manager”.

      My other advice after years of management is just to know that people are grown ups, they can tell when you’re lying, and no one likes feeling manipulated (or gaslit). There will be times you have to communicate things that you disagree with, or are frustrated with someone else, or don’t have the answer. This DOESN’T mean you should say: “this decision is stupid/Jane is a jerk and holding up this project/I have no clue what to do and am panicked about it” and dump all your innermost thoughts and worries on your direct report. But don’t try to lie or convince people that what’s happening in front of them isn’t real.
      Some of the things I have said that my direct reports have told me they appreciate (or a boss has said to me, and I appreciated!) sounded like:
      “to be honest, this isn’t the decision I wanted the company to make, but I understand the reasons for it and I can see how it will improve XYZ.”
      “I can’t promise to know exactly how we should handle this, but I can promise to be transparent with you and I always want to hear what you’re struggling with, and what you need from me to keep going.”
      “I think we can both tell that the delays with this project are bottlenecked with another team. It’s okay to be frustrated, but I don’t want those frustrations to impact your professional relationships, so let’s figure out some ideas for how we can work around this” (and “I can promise that if this continues to affect our ability to deliver, I will raise it at a higher level”)

    7. AnonAnon*

      Sometimes your direct reports just need to vent or talk something through. Don’t always feel like you need to fix every problem. Instead, listen and at the right time ask if they would like you to take any action. Many times they just needed to get something off their chest.

    8. RosyGlasses*

      Some things you just learn on the job. I’ve felt that most of my first year last year as my first time managing a significant group of people – but I fall back on learning and reading and trying to implement what I see as the best practices.

      LifeLabs Learning has amazing a la carte classes (I recommend Effective Feedback, Productivity & Prioritization, Coaching, and Effective 1:1s as a core starting point). They are $250 each and 2 hours packed with actionable tools that you practice in small groups (virtual).

      I also have learned quite a bit from these books : Developing the Leader Within You (and the workbook) by John Maxwell, The First 90 Days, 5 Languages of Appreciation, The Coaching Habit, and Leadership & Self Deception.

      The biggest thing is mindshift in my opinion. When you are an individual contributor, you are used to success and productivity being based on what you complete and how well you do. When you move to manager, your success is how well you coach your team, support them in reaching company goals, help boost their engagement, and removing obstacles so they can get their work done. It takes time to *feel* like you are working and being effective.

    9. Not So NewReader*

      It really helped me to think more clearly on the fly if I kept in mind that my job is to serve. I serve the people and I serve the boss.

      This led me to questions such as, “how can I help this person/situation?” It’s really good to remember that we can’t always help a person or situation. Always remember that everyone, including yourself, has limits. There is a difference between serving and trying to be all things to all people. Do not do the latter.

      It takes longer to hand out fishing poles than it does to hand out fish. Hand out the fishing poles, anyway. Spend the time helping people to do their best and serve their full function at their jobs. You will end up with a happier group because they know what their jobs are and what is expected out of them.

  9. bassclefchick*

    Can anyone else in higher ed give me some tips for being successful on a search committee for an Associate Vice Chancellor? I’ve never hired before and feel like I’m in way over my head. I had no idea how to narrow down the candidates and feel like all the comments I’ve made so far have been really….unhelpful? Naïve? It may just be imposter syndrome, but I could use some help.

    1. LCH*

      how will the associate vice chancellor affect your dept and your position/work? I’d probably focus on questions related to that since there is a reason you were selected to be on the committee.

      1. bassclefchick*

        The Associate vice chancellor is about 5 levels above me. So, they’ll be more big picture and I’m more “boots on the ground”. I don’t get to ask specific questions of the candidates. We’ll be asking them all the same questions.

        1. Nesprin*

          Hmm if they’re 5 levels above you, that’s about equivalent to an undergrad on a usual faculty committee- so things like are they jerks to the little people? Are they only good when pointed up or do they work well both up and down the heirarchy? How do they handle talking strategy to someone who doesn’t do strategy?

    2. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      “Associate Vice Chancellor” sounds like a really squishy title.

      Figure out what specifically this person is going to be doing, and then concentrate on this. If the role is mostly about faculty management and development, then ask questions about that. If the role is mostly about alumni fund-raising or corporate partnerships, then ask questions about those.

      1. tamarack and fireweed*

        My guess is that this is an Associate Vice Chancellor for *something specific*. At least they should be. My institution has vice chancellors for research, student affairs, community education, administration … These all have extremely distinct roles: the first sets overall research development direction and talks a lot with governmental funders; the second oversees students’s academic, on-campus and discipline matters; the third is basically the chancellor of the community college; etc. Any Associate VC who would assist them also would be a specialist or at least credentialed in these various disciplines.

        I think that the angle that comes out in the comments is useful: The OP could clarify what they expect from their particular perspective, and they can focus on how they expect the candidates would interact with (and be able to work effectively / be respected by) the types of staff they have experience with.

    3. bassclefchick*

      I won’t be getting to ask questions during the interviews. All candidates will be asked the same set of questions. This position is higher up than I’ve ever (or will ever) be. I guess I just don’t know how someone at my level could possibly contribute anything helpful when I’ve never hired anyone at all, much less someone who will report directly to the Chancellor.

    4. OtterB*

      My not-for-profit in the higher ed space is currently hiring a new Executive Director. The hiring committee includes two staff members. Decision authority rests with the Board chair and there’s also a search firm involved. What they want from the staff on the committee is a view of how the new hire would affect the staff and what the staff wants to see. To the extent that you have ideas on what matters to the organization as a whole, fine, but especially contribute your view on the things that you think matter to people in your role/at your level that others on the committee might not think about.

      If the search committee chair is reasonably approachable, ask them how you can best contribute. There’s probably a reason you were put on the committee. It may be that “our policy is that someone in Role X participates in these committees” but the policy exists for a reason. Possibly a CYA reason, but also quite possibly a desire to have a broader view of the needs and the candidates than a more insular hiring group might have.

      1. bassclefchick*

        Yes! We have a Committee chair and a search firm. I did provide some insight that was helpful because I work closely with the tradespeople and they talk to me. So I hear about what THEY are unhappy with. And, I was here for the last person who had this position and he sucked. I’m sure he was fine with the Chancellor, but he sucked with the people he considered “lower” than him.

        1. Reba*

          Ok, these are really good reasons why you are on the committee! (aside from, somebody’s got to do this thankless task, let’s get bassclefchick on it :) ) So I would focus on those things you know that others don’t, rather than on “how to hire” or whatever. Continue to reflect on what perspective you have that people “higher up” or in different departments, reporting lines will not have. That’s what you have to offer, along with your general perceptions.

          Also, because of your comments about feeling like a lightweight in the meetings, I want to put out there that it may be the case that your voice/position does not carry as much weight or have as much impact on the decision as others, who may work with the person more closely or have more understanding/authority over the direction the institution is going in. That’s okay and makes sense! I’m not trying to say “stay in your lane,” but just that it doesn’t reflect on you AT ALL if other people are more experienced with hiring and have more command over strategic direction of the university, and if therefore their sense of priorities has greater influence on the process. Those people are on the committee for those reasons and you are on the committee because of the things you know about. Like, you don’t have to “perform” at the same “level” as these admins to be contributing!

          All that being said, if people are being snooty with you in the meetings, they suck.

      2. Countess of Upstairs Downstairs*

        OP: listen to OtterB’s advice. Find a way to ask the search comm chair, or an approachable committee member, or your boss. Since it’s your first time, and presumably the chair and other members know this too, they aren’t expecting you to contribute at the same level as the more experienced people.

        For now, don’t focus on being able to make helpful comments. Focus on the being present in the search process instead: 1) attend the committee meetings, 2) keep reviewing the CVs and interview questions/rubric, and 3). listen to other members comments and learn from them.

    5. tamarack and fireweed*

      Are you the search committee chair or a member?

      Anyhow, your institutions HR org may have a talent acquisition team that has tips/guidelines. I’d never heard of them, but on a completely different committee (not hiring, but to do with diversity/inclusion) we contacted them to get some input about something and were surprised to find quite a solid set of principles and resources.

      Also, you should have a rubric for evaluating candidates. You should be able to ask your fellow committee members to have a discussion to put together a preliminary list of qualities you’re looking for. Obviously everyone will have different perspectives (that’s GOOD) and some may even disagree (that’s NOT BAD either), but it’s going to make the committee more effective (that’s at least how you can sell it to them).

      You could also talk to a senior member of your own organization who you trust or a mentor (are you academic or staff or a student?) to give you some *confidential* input to inform your thinking. Be careful not to pick someone who’s cynical about the exercise.

  10. a small frog*

    I feel lost. I need to get out of my current job because management just isn’t functional but I feel like I just hit dead ends whenever i comb the boards. I’m just spinning my wheels in place with no further potential than perpetually leeching off my family.
    I’m so scared. I’m scared of what comes next, I’m scared of my own inability to do things, I’m scared to reach out to past mentors or colleagues because I don’t want them to know what a failure I’ve become.
    I’d kind of like to go back to grad school because i’m desperately searching for some familiarity and most of the jobs and internships in my field require either a grad degree or current enrollment in school. But I don’t know the first thing about choosing and applying to grad school programs, and where am I supposed to get the money from?

    1. Yorick*

      In some fields, you shouldn’t go to grad school unless they pay for it with scholarships or assistantships or something (or at least half). I’m in a social science and that’s definitely true, and a professor in the humanities gave me that advice too. Unless you KNOW you will get a specific job or a specific promotion if you have it, a Master’s that you paid for or took out loans for is probably going to be a waste.

    2. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      “I’m scared to reach out to past mentors or colleagues because I don’t want them to know what a failure I’ve become”

      YOU HAVE NOT BECOME A FAILURE.

      Your employer has failed, not you. Even if you take the attitude “well, I should have known this was going to happen” (which you shouldn’t!!!), everyone makes mistakes. And past mentors want you to do well, and want to help you overcome obstacles.

      Go hit your network.

      1. Analytical Tree Hugger*

        Agreed!

        @a small frog, imagine if someone you had mentored or worked with contacted you in a similar situation. I’d guess you wouldn’t think, “Wow, why did you do that to yourself?” Rather I’m guessing you’d be thinking, “Hey, how can I help?”

        Give yourself some of the compassion you would give others in a similar situation.

        Also agree with others, avoid grad school unless you can get it paid for *and* you know that what you’ll do with the degree afterwards needs that degree.

      2. Sue*

        You sound like you’re really down on yourself right now. Is this only career related or has it seeped into your personal life as well? And how long have you been feeling this way? I just detect a bit of looking at school as an escape and please don’t do that. It’s too expensive and time consuming if it doesn’t lead to pretty direct benefits. Maybe career counseling would be helpful or just talking to someone for more generalized help. Many of us have been there! I hope you are able to sort it out.

      3. Chauncy Gardener*

        This a million times, OP!! It sounds like you’re just in the wrong job/culture for you to succeed in. You are SO not a failure! Please reach out to your network! Please reach out to supportive friends and family and try to take care of YOU as you navigate this transition. One day you will be posted in the Good News Fridays, I am sure of it!

      4. Your Local Password Resetter*

        All of this.
        And honestly? Even if they do think you’re a failure, that’s not actually a big problem.

        If you kept close contact with them, they probably already know you’re not doing well.
        If you mostly use them as professional contacts/references, then they would have to be terrible people to refuse to help you just because they’re dissappointed in your career.
        And if they do somehow cut contact with you or refuse to help, then you’re no worse off than if you never asked at all. Besides the pain of social rejection, which you’re already inflicting on yourself anyway.

    3. MamaSarah*

      Can you do a class or do workshop in your preferred area? What about a side gig like bartending or taking a crack at being a barista? Cash tips can create a nice sense of autonomy.
      Also…there is great line from an MC Yogi song “when you’re separate, that’s when you service”. I see the doubt and fear in your post. Those feelings are real and fair, but finding opportunities to be of service helps us shake it off.

    4. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      First thing: Know for sure about whether you NEED grad school for the jobs. It looks like in this case you do.
      I talk to a lot of career changers who talk themselves into needing schooling when really what they need is confidence in themselves and a new resume.

      Second thing: Find out what programs your colleagues attended and what programs are familiar to your potential employers. The last thing you want to do is get talked into an inappropriate program by a recruiter and promises on a website.
      Ask around within your network about the programs that people chose, and whether they are happy they made those choices.
      If you are too shy to ask, or don’t have contacts in the industry, you can look up people who have your target job on LinkedIn and check out their education/credential sections to see where people have gone. Peeping in on strangers you might never contact is a totally underrated research tool for all career exploration.
      If you get really brave, reach out to a couple of people about a program you’re considering and ask them how it was. (You could also ask the school for graduates to talk to, or you could reach out to instructors for brief questions.)
      And look closely at the job descriptions for your target jobs after school. Make sure the program you’re considering meets the education requirements for the places you’re hoping to work for.

      Third thing: Look HARD at the descriptions of costs, and then talk to the financial aid office at the school. Go ahead and fill out the FAFSA to see what sort of grants/loans you qualify for. If you are working and making ok money, you might not get a lot as a grant, but could qualify for loans. Avoid taking loans for living expenses. (Folks who are NOT working, and thus have bigger incomes on their relevant tax returns than they’re currently getting should click the YES box for where it asks if you’re a dislocated worker. That helps the financial aid people adjust their expectations about what you’ll have available to you to pay out of pocket.) There may also be grants/scholarships that the school knows about — e.g., a local scholarship for students in a program that are in a particular category, like first generation scholars, etc.
      Also, if employers in your field are open to people who are currently enrolled in a relevant program, they may have tuition reimbursement benefits. Ask at your current employer if they’ll help with tuition. If they don’t, and you can’t bear to stay, then focus your “for now” job search on employers that do have generous tuition reimbursement, whether or not you’d stay with them until the end of time.
      Also, ask if your field qualifies for any loan forgiveness programs and make sure that you pay attention to any requirements/timelines about how that can happen.

      Fourth thing: Consider whether a PT program while working is doable for you, or whether you’ll have to go to school FT. Some graduate programs expect students to have FT jobs and have most or all of their classes in the evenings. Some expect students to be attending school full time during the day. Look at the current class schedule to see when/where classes are offered for the program you want to attend.

      Fifth thing: Start cutting expenses NOW and saving up. The act of budgeting will remind you every day of your next new goal. Imagine every purchase that you skip as an investment in your awesome new future. It will take some time to research and apply and get started at school. How much of your costs can you save up in the meantime?

    5. Turd Furd*

      I totally can relate to how you’re feeling. I realized earlier this year after over 6 years that it’s time to move on. I’ve been fearful, worried, anxious, stressed, etc. If I can offer you some encouragement… you are strong, capable and you WILL find something good! It can take months to a year to find a good next step. It’s an endurance trial. Take small steps, one foot in front of the other. Find someone(s) who can support and encourage you each time you feel down. Look back at how far you’ve come!

      Some steps I’ve been taking that is helping me overcome my fears:
      – I set up zoom chats with two of my old directors. I asked about their career trajectories and shared some of how I’m feeling in my current role. The meetings were very encouraging, and one of them asked me to come join her team. I’m meeting with her again today to talk more about the role! It’s not set in stone but it feels good to know it’s a possibility.
      – I researched how to optimize my linkedin, resume, and portfolio, and spent countless hours working on it. It’s not necessarily fun, but I’ve seen an uptick in response from potential employers. Have someone you trust check out your materials and give you feedback. It will only make you stronger!
      – I’ve gotten strategic with my job searching. That meant becoming aware of what it is I’m actually looking for, and not allowing myself to settle for less than ideal situations.

      I believe in you!! You got this!

    6. mreasy*

      Hi! It sounds like you’re really spiraling about this, which I understand. You definitely aren’t a failure, and you have enough skills to keep your current job, which means you could get a job elsewhere. Past mentors and colleagues will NOT look at you as a failure! I say that as a past mentor and supervisors to folks who range from unemployed to beyond me in their careers. If it’s someone you got along with, it’s likely they’ll be happy to help. Maybe expanding your search a bit will help with those “dead ends” – do you have a friend or a relative you trust that you could think out loud with about other roles that could use your skills that you would be interested in? Even if not directly in your field, you could expand complementary skill sets and gain experience for future, more senior opportunities. You are by no means a failure! The world is a difficult place, especially now, and you are doing your best. You will find something that works. We’re here for you!

      1. Mimi*

        This!

        Think through your network for people who, if they messaged you saying, “I just got laid off and I have no idea what I’m doing next,” your reaction would be, “That’s awful, but it’s really nice to hear from you!” Those are the people who are most likely to be equally happy to hear from YOU, no matter what your career is doing. Reach out to them! You don’t have to tell them how much you hate your current job, you can just say that you’re looking for a change and interested in XYZ, do they have any ideas of where you should look?

        If you aren’t sure what XYZ you’re interested in, think about things you’ve liked in jobs you’ve had. What was satisfying? If there’s someone you know who’s good at helping you figure stuff out, or is even just a good listener, it’s probably worthwhile to talk to them about what you want in a job/to be doing.

        You aren’t a failure. You’ll get through this. I believe that you will be emailing Alison your Friday Good News someday.

    7. Diatryma*

      You have not failed.

      When I was in your position, I tried so hard to make a story out of it. There had to be a narrative, right? But there wasn’t. Sometimes there isn’t. Sometimes it’s just That Really Sucky Time in your life story, and you can’t find a reason or someone to blame. That’s okay. You have not failed.

      Jobsearching makes you hate yourself. That’s a known side effect. As long as you are jobsearching (and possibly as long as you’re in a dysfunctional job) you should not trust your self-evaluation. You feel bad and like you’re a failure, but that doesn’t mean you are bad or a failure, just that you’re jobsearching. You have not failed. You will be okay.

      You have not failed. You are not a failure.

    9. tamarack and fireweed*

      I could have written a similar letter ~15 years ago. I was stuck and in a financially unsustainable situation, and obsessed about not daring to ask anyone for help or advice, because they must think of me as a failure.

      In retrospect, this was a huge and painful waste of emotional energy. Please, please: try to get away from this mindset as fast as you can, as it’s not constructive and almost certainly a way darker picture than the reality of your situation warrants. And you are absolutely certainly more scared than you should be, and it’s not doing you any good.

      There are some good pieces of advice in the comments already. I’d second the idea that if you *do* decide to go the grad school route, make it conditional on having the financial side hammered out – and depending on the field, absolutely only do it if you get some form of grad assistant support. In addition, what comes to mind:

      – Are you first generation to go to college in your family? I’m asking because you say that you feel unsure about how to go about grad school. There’s recently been a rise in resources that target people who are new to the whole academic pathfinding thing. You could call up / email 2-3 universities in your area that have master’s programs that might theoretically fit, introduce yourself, say what professional field you’re in and that you are considering grad school. Then ask if they have any first-gen resources/advisers that might help. (Or look on their web site. Often people from departments don’t even know about these resources for prospective students.)
      – Whether you seek formal or informal further qualification, it is *really* common to do this while being employed. Can you talk with anyone in your field who’s doing what you’d like to do and figure out how they got there?
      – Professional organizations – again how useful they are really depends on the field. But if you see paid (!!) internships that people are getting into to get a foot into the kind of career you’d like to have, it might be worth checking them out. Do they have career / networking / early career sections on their website? Maybe a mentorship program?
      – The way I got out of my own personal funk. I put my dreams on hold for a while, because they were clearly not happening, and I felt they were slipping away. Instead, I clarified for myself a) what kind of company I wanted to work for (not picky – just a recognizable real company in roughly the industry I thought I’d have a chance in – not a staffing company/subcontractor though) and b) what skills I could put forward *right now*, including any extras I could offer (rebranding circuitous paths as “special skills”). The company I ended up with for a few years had a crappy product, and management of varying quality (at least an excellent local managing director, though) and required me to work in a mediocre place for a while. But I got my personal finances on track, and started to learn additional skills that went right back on my CV, and I could bootstrap from there into a sustainable career.

      Don’t give up!

      PS: If you have the means, it would likely help to talk with a therapist. I didn’t, but wish I had.

  11. Neon Dreams*

    Has anyone had experience finding work on Flexjobs? I paid for a year’s subscription at half price and some of the jobs look really promising. Was curious if anyone else had used the site. It looks reputable, having be featured in many media outlets.

    1. DivineMissL*

      I used it to find a part-time job for nights and/or weekends. It was a little difficult because most of the jobs were full-time, it was hard to pull out just the PT ones, and even most of the PT ones wanted work hours during the day. But I found them to be reputable and reliable. They show the name of the companies, so I guess theoretically you could apply directly through the corporate website rather than through Flexjobs.

      That being said, I thought their search function was a little confusing and not user-friendly, but this was a few years ago; it’s possible they have improved it since. Overall, I’d say they are a good value for the price, especially if you got it at a discount rate.

    2. voluptuousfire*

      It’s pretty good but I didn’t see many jobs there that I didn’t see on other mainstream boards/other remote job websites. IMO, it’s worth it if you pay the discounted price, not the full price.

    3. MisgenderedAndSickOfIt*

      I didn’t personally have great luck with it, but I didn’t spend a ton of time there. However, they have a lot of great job postings, and I think if someone was doing a more targeted search it would be a good investment.

    4. anonymous73*

      I signed up for 3 months and I wasn’t a fan. Very few jobs I found (for my profession) were not full time remote and I rarely found anything locally. Or they advertised as full time remote, but when you opened the description and read the whole thing, it was only remote until COVID restrictions were lifted. I felt it was a waste of time.

      1. voluptuousfire*

        They did update that! They have an option for “remote for the pandemic” as one of the remote options.

    5. Spice for this*

      I am looking for part time remote work and signed up for a year’s subscription a couple of months ago (during a 50% off special price) based on recommendations from my friend who has found contract type jobs on Flexjobs.
      I do like the emails, reminders, new job notifications, etc.

    6. MissDisplaced*

      I did purchase and use FlexJobs for 3 moths during my last serious job search. I never got any super great or unique job leads from it, but I did take advantage of a resume service for $99 that surprisingly was well worth it (I asked them to revise/write it for stretch jobs).

      I did notice some of the job were focused on those who have disabilities and/or need to WFH, so it might be worth it depending on what you’re looking for.

  12. The Other Dawn*

    Does anyone have recommendations for books on learning SQL? I’m currently learning Crystal Reports and part of that is understanding SQL and databases. My company assigned some training videos, which was fine for Crystal; however, I think I’d do better with books or just something I can read in general when it comes to SQL. (Yes, I can Google, but I’m hoping someone can point me to something specific and of decent quality.)

    1. Forkeater*

      I have a book on my shelf called “Teach yourself SQL in ten minutes” which is actually pretty good. I used SQL with Tableau, I really don’t know much but I learned enough to really help my dashboards work more efficiently.

      1. AndersonDarling*

        Yep, I’d recommend watching video tutorials and there are some sites that have practice SQL databases. It’s something that you have to practice along with rather than read about. It’s like learning to play an instrument, some code you have to type again and again to get it drilled into your memory and then it becomes natural.

    3. Excel Jedi*

      You really just have to write queries to understand query writing. There’s something about the syntax that just starts to click as you do it. (I’m learning that R is the same way for me now.)

      W3Schools is one of the best free resources I’ve found, both for the ability to look up different syntax, and because they give you space to try writing things yourself.

      1. AndersonDarling*

        Yep, I ordered giant books on SQL and R and it was a waste of money. Although they look snazzy on a bookshelf.
        I learned everything by practice. And it’s so easy to reference questions through google, I couldn’t imagine flipping through those books looking for answers.

    4. LC*

      Not a book, but way better than either a book or a video, imo – I really enjoyed W3Schools dot com. I knew a bit about SQL when I started this job mostly from teaching myself (+ google) VBA for Excel, and I thought their SQL tutorial was excellent. Good mix of reading (so you understand the why) and doing (so you can start building some muscle memory of the how), and easy to use as a reference after you finish it.

      I just did the free course, which was way more extensive than I expected, but at some point I’m going to ask my employer to get me the paid one.

      I also started working with Crystal Reports at the same time, and yeah, I thinking having at least some understanding of databases helped. There were several things I learned that I would have been able to do, just by memorizing the steps, but at first I had no idea of why they worked and definitely wouldn’t be able to troubleshoot if something went wrong or to do anything new or make improvements.

      Other thing that’s helped me a lot is to try and write my own scripts for stuff I’m asked to do, even when we have a whole library of ones that are either exactly what I’m looking for or really easy to modify to be what I want. It’s not at all a particularly quick way to get things done, but I learn soooo much more that way. I try to make something that works, then I’ll compare it to one we already have and usually go over it with someone to see how they’re different, how mine could be more efficient or even just more the style that my work uses, etc.

      There was even once that my way was a little better! That was very exciting. And just yesterday, I went over what I’d done so far with an assignment that I felt was a huge stretch for me with my grandboss (who is actually incredibly technical and hands on for a boss, even more so considering he’s an SVP/the CIO) and got all warm and fuzzy when he said it was great so far and my idea of the next steps was what he’d have done, that even though I have no idea how to do it, I was thinking about it right (and he’s going to teach me how to do it).

      Anyway. All that to say, I thought W3Schools was super helpful and it gave me enough of a foundation to start actually doing things myself, which is invaluable.

    5. Thursdaysgeek*

      When you do have specific Crystal or SQL questions, StackOverflow is my preferred resource. My current company prefers we have our procedures in the database, rather than in Crystal – it is way easier to maintain, to see how it changes when it needs to change. Crystal is a Piece of Software at times, and can get cranky, so having the code separate makes it easier when you decide you have to start a report fresh.

    7. FridaysImInLove*

      The SQL Murder Mystery is pretty basic but a surprisingly fun way to practice your skills. I’ve used it to brush up on the fundamentals before

      1. Thursdaysgeek*

        I use SQL every day, so perhaps don’t need to brush up, but that sounds interesting anyway. …heads to google…

    8. Bob Howard*

      I found SQL for Dummies very helpful. As well as SQL syntax, it covered a lot about how databases are setup, which is really helpful for writing effecient queries.

      Obviously you need to be comfortable with the documentation for whatever dialect of SQL you will be using, e.g. Microsoft or Oracle. Also your development envionment documentation: Reporting tools, software languages and spreadsheets will have different ways of doing whatever you want with SQL.

  13. BayCay*

    Just wanted to share that for the first time since I’ve started reading this blog, I have no complaints this Friday!

    For the first time in my professional career, I have a job I enjoy, a great boss that is flexible, and friendly coworkers. And when annoyances do come up, they’re fairly minor and temporary. Before this job, I worked the job from hell, with a micromanaging boss who yelled at me and stuck up for the office bully, who often made me her target. I was so stressed at that job that I ended up having to quit for health reasons. On my last day, nobody took me out for a goodbye lunch and my boss wasn’t even there to say goodbye. Ironically, the only thing anybody did was, one person bought me a bagel…and yup, it was the bully.

    So yeah, just feeling grateful today.

    3. Butwhy*

      This makes me feel hopeful. Funny that the office bullies so often need the boss to defend them. My office bully would go to the boss’s office after nearly every meeting to ‘fill him in’ on anything that didn’t go their way. Glad you are in a better place now. Life is so much better when work doesn’t suck.

      1. BayCay*

        Oh yeah, she was infamous for “tattling” to the boss if somebody made a mistake or didn’t do things her way. He only defended her because she was actually good at the job and got us some high numbers. So he was willing to put up with her being a crap person for the results.

        But in the end, her behavior caused me and a few other team members to leave so the lesson I learned was, it’s not good management to let bullies slide. Even if they get results, it’s not worth the damage they’ll do overall.

  14. Not an orge, really!*

    How to manage household help? I hired a team of 2 sisters to come clean twice a month. They are so shy and compliant, apologizing and thanking too often for things no one else would. No one else acts like that around me so I don’t think it’s me. One sister does not speak English, the other is fluent.
    There are things i need to communicate, like please come closer to the time you say you’ll be here (they give approximate times which is usually ok) or please use this cleaner on the toilet or whatever, but I’ve been holding back for fear of mortifying them.
    Any suggestions appreciated.

    1. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      This might be cold of me, but could you approach it in a warm, but matter of fact way?

      “Please arrive at 9:00am. I’m not mad, but a I need you to be on time. Thank you.” Natural expression on your face that you’d have when asking a question about the weather or any other reasonable request.

      They’re emotions aren’t yours to manage.

      And it may help to think of their use of “thank you” as a conversational filler, like many of us use “um”, “I’m not sure” or nervous-kindof-laughter. So, reframe it as less about constantly expressing gratitude and more just about moving the conversation forward while they think of a response.

      1. Not an orge, really!*

        Thank you. They do a good job but seem beaten down, I guess. And are very concerned that I am happy with their work which is always excellent. If be happier if we could have some back and forth.
        Like “plz arrive at 9”, “I have to drop off my child, is 9:30 ok?” , “Sure!”
        But every time I say something they seem crushed and I’m trying to be gentle.
        But you are correct and not cold.

    2. Not an orge, really!*

      I directly hired then bc there are a lot of upper class women running cleaning services where they charge high prices but only pay those who work for them min wage which is low here and no benefits. So I never use the cleaning companies.
      Instead of tipping, I always make sure to pay at least $30/hr each for the time they work, they always try to give me the extra back, they have a flat rate but if they stay longer, I pay more.

    3. WellRed*

      How long have they been working for you? If they’re new, maybe need time to adjust? Have you been clear on expectations! It sounds like you think you have but your comment says otherwise. ( do you need them to come at a certain time or not?)

      1. Not an orge, really!*

        Not very long. They’ve cleaned for me 3 times. I hope they get more comfortable. I do tend to be an introvert so communication is tough for me too. I worked years on making proper eye contact, so I get it. But it’s tough to see them apparently crushed at my every request.

        1. WellRed*

          I’m not disbelieveing you here, but are you sure they are “crushed?” More practically, can you just set a time? And pay the flat rate? It sounds like There are still language and cultural communication issues here. I get you’re trying to be flexible but…

          1. londonedit*

            This is what I was thinking – they might just come from a culture that’s naturally more deferential than you’re used to.

          2. Not an orge, really!*

            Well they apologize a lot. Like on the times when I’ve made simple requests, like here please use this cleaner, they apologize profusely for not doing it the last time or not knowing. Or I came out of my office and they were having some water (I had told them where the cups were & to help themselves to whatever beverages they wanted) and they panicked, like I was going to harm them for stopping long enough to take a drink. I told them I just wanted a drink to and then they thanked me. Ummmm

            1. fueled by coffee*

              This anecdote in particular is making me wonder whether they might have had negative experiences with other employers who react extremely critically for taking breaks or making small mistakes. I’d suggest being straightforward with your requests, but keeping your tone warm/friendly. Eventually they’ll learn that you aren’t going to be mad about a water break or using the wrong cleaner.

              1. Not an orge, really!*

                Thank you, I hope they learn soon. I feel like I’m being thanked for treating them like I would any other human and apologized to for things that don’t matter. Always makes me feel like I’ve done something wrong.

              2. mreasy*

                I bet this is the case. I can only imagine they’ve dealt with terrible other employers who want that level of deference. I hate that for them and I’m glad you’re trying to do right and pay well.

                1. Not an orge, really!*

                  I’m stunned at how rude and people are. Decades ago when I was dating, someone advised me to watch how my dates treated the wait staff. While being young & stupid in many ways, I did pay attention to that. I watched how my dates treated everyone who wasn’t me. That was enlightening and depressing. I keep waiting for humans to evolve.

    4. Sunflower*

      How long have they been coming to you? Can you approach it like a ‘3 month check in’ and frame the things you need not as ‘you’re doing this wrong and it’s annoying me’ but as ‘now that we’re 2 months in, I’ve realized there’s some things I didn’t tell you upfront that would be helpful now’

      I would just say ‘Ladies, I love the work you do and I’m so happy to have you around. I just realized there are a few things I should have told you from the get go that I never did- sorry about that! Here’s a list of some things that would be super helpful’

      I don’t know where they are from but it’s very possible the shyness, thanking, apologizing, etc is a culture thing and I’d let it go if they otherwise do good work and you trust them.

      1. Not an orge, really!*

        I like that – thank you! That gives me a good way to let them know how happy I am with their work as well!

    5. Not So NewReader*

      I think I would go instance by instance. Just tackle one thing at a time. I also think that as YOU relax they may relax a little. They may be reading any tension as “I must act in a formal manner with OP!”

      You’ve really got a tough mix here, one person does not speak English, two people are shy and compliant and you are walking on egg shells. Since you pay them decently, they may have an additional layer of worry that the pay could go away (you’d fire them) at any time. It might be helpful for you to point blank say that you would like them to work for you for as many years as they want to so when you ask them to use a certain cleaner for the toilet- it’s not a big deal. You will not fire them over the wrong cleaner because you really like their work and you like them.

      I assume you give time for the one sister to translate to the other sister so she can follow the conversation? Maybe try to learn a few words in their language such as please, thank you, have a good day etc.

      1. Not an orge, really!*

        These are valid points. I do tend to be awkward with new people. I do with for them to translate and discuss. While I understand a tiny bit of what they say and know a few phrases, it’s nothing more than yes/no/hello, I’m not good with languages. My husband is near fluent but usually must work away from our house so they haven’t gotten to meet him yet.
        I have been making a point of saying how I appreciate their work every time so I hope they don’t think I’d just fire them.

    6. I can never decide on a lasting name*

      Since you seem genuinely interested in their welfare, I’d suggest reading about life and working conditions for people doing cleaning jobs in private houses; maybe a reddit forum, maybe fiction or non-fiction.

      But! You also sound somewhat anxious, so I’d only recommend doing that if you think you will not start blaming yourself for other people’s errors.

      Something else: especially when younger, I was extremely uncomfortable when visiting people who had paid help in the house – friends who worked in developing countries, where it is important to supply jobs if you can. As a white middle-class woman from an egalitarian society, I felt sooo uncomfortable that someone was washing my clothes or making me coffee. Is that relevant to you?

  15. Analytical Tree Hugger*

    Regarding Alison’s “magic question” and the aftermath: Any advice on what to do if you get hired and realize you aren’t going to be able to live up to their expectations of an exceptional employee?

    I was recently hired to a new job in a new-to-me company (yay) but it’s becoming clear to me that I just don’t have what it takes to go beyond adequate (boo).

    The hiring manager was looking for somone to handle logistics/project management (adequate candidate, e.g. me). And bonus if the hire could become their right hand, someone who could keep up with them on technical knowledge as well (an exceptional candidate). That’s not me, as I lack the deep technical knowledge in this field; I can kindof follow along, since I come from an adjacent field. And this isn’t the type of field you can develop expertise on the job without a strong foundation from (literal) PhD training, at least for me; I know the field and myself well enough to know that.

    Any advice on what I should do? Is there anything to do? Or do I just learn to accept not being what the hiring manager wanted, but just do what I can to the best of my ability?

    2. High Score!*

      Do your best. Sometimes you have to grow into a job. When you have one on ones, ask your manager for feedback. That way you’ll know what they like and what you can improve on.
      Sometimes roles evolve to the strengths of the person in them. Maybe this will. Try to stick it out long enough to find out.

    3. ecnaseener*

      If you’re truly doing adequate work, by definition that’s not a problem. You’re under no obligation to be exceptional.

      If you WANT to find another job where you can really thrive, that’s up to you. But please toss out this idea that you owe it to your employer to be a rock star. Do your best, within reasonable bounds.

    4. Observer*

      The boss hired you because he needs what you have to offer enough that he can’t afford to wait for an “exceptional” candidate. So, I think that if you do your job well, you could be ok.

      I’d be willing to bet that you could wind up making him VERY glad he hired you by be EXCELLENT at what you can do. The first piece of this is relatively obvious – ie be an awesome PM / Logistics manager. When your boss tells you “We need X done by next week” he should be able to forget he told you about it, and just KNOW it’s going to be done. Pay attention to things like patterns of usage so that you can plan. Manage vendor relationships so you boss doesn’t need to think about it. That kind of thing. This kind of thing is incredibly valuable.

      The other thing is try to learn the pragmatic technicalities of the work. To take a wildly over-simplified example of what I mean. Say your boss does studies and always uses students from one local college for his study participants. If you can find out why your boss always uses students from this school, you might find out that you could get participants from other places without too much trouble, thus widening your pool of participants. Or you might find out that actually the reason that this is the primary pool is because of Reasons, which make it much harder to get appropriate participants elsewhere. In which case, you’re going to want to keep an eye on what goes on at the school and if any changes that might affect your potential participant pool look like they might happen, you would talk to your boss proactively about how to develop a new pool.

    5. Not So NewReader*

      There’s a difference between being a right hand and being a “mini me”. Focus on that. A right hand picks up the dropped pieces. A “mini me” generates original ideas/goods/etc on the par with the boss.

      Start by following up on dropped pieces and see where that puts you. Directly ask the boss for interim reviews of how you are doing. Do not decide FOR THE BOSS that you are doing a job that is less than. That’s the boss’ decision not yours.

      How long have you been at the job?

    6. RagingADHD*

      Do you think they hired you by accident?

      Unless you lied that you had a PhD, I’d assume that they chose you because they realized that your unique skills and growth potential were more important than whatever imaginary list they made up on the spot.

      I once asked a ghostwriting client the standard question in the planning/positioning phase, “What’s your ideal outcome for the book?” She answered that ideally she’d want to have her book featured on Oprah.

      Oprah had already been off the air for YEARS. This statement had nothing to do with my work. It was just a glimpse of the inside of her head.

      Don’t let the random shit that comes out of people’s mouths mess with your reality.

    7. Purple Cat*

      But you ARE what they wanted! You’re just not the unicorn they were *dreaming* is out there.
      My boss always likes to remind us at review time that “Meets Expectations” isn’t a bad score. You’re doing the job as expected. Not receiving “Exceeding” marks is not the same as receiving “Needs Improvement”.
      Be kind to yourself.

    8. Nesprin*

      Meh, you may be overestimating PhDs- they take 5 years but only 1-2 of that is actual coursework, the rest is just developing a skillset in a given discipline- I have known many PhDs who could not tie their own shoes.

    9. The New Wanderer*

      You’re not “adequate” here, you’re what the HM needed for the role! As others have said too, what you offered at the start was plenty good enough to do the job the HM has in mind. It’s very likely that, given your skills in general, they think you might be capable of gaining more knowledge on technical side over the years. If you do, that’s the bonus. If you don’t, the HM still has the PM they wanted in the first place.

      I’ve seen this happen to varying degrees at my (now former) job. PMs who work long term on a project learn a pretty solid amount about the work itself just by being around the technical experts and hearing and absorbing things. They still wouldn’t claim to be experts themselves, but they have a better understanding and appreciation for aspects of the project and that can make them better PMs.

      In other cases, PMs aren’t on a project long enough to really pick things up or it’s not their kind of thing, and they still do just fine and provide the support needed. When it comes down to it, it’s always the specific skills the PM brings that makes them invaluable, not whether they absorbed technical knowledge or not.

  16. Daffodilly*

    Contract/freelance workers with multiple clients. I need a better system for tracking hours to bill to different clients. Been using a spreadsheet and it’s cumbersome.
    Would love to hear what works for you.

    1. LadyByTheLake*

      I use Bill4Time. Relatively cheap, has an easy to use desktop widget, invoice creation etc. It works great for me.

    2. OtterB*

      I use Toggl to keep track of what projects/tasks I spend my time on. It has the ability to assign a client to each task – I haven’t used it but I’m pleased with the system in general.

  17. Ana Banana*

    I was sitting at my desk, eating a small donut, and was checking over emails. My coworker, “Steve”, suddenly appeared in front of me and started to pretend like he was also eating something. He was just standing there doing that- mimicking me chewing and I couldn’t speak because I still had my mouth full. I stopped chewing and looked at him funny and he made some remark like, “Just a little morning humor”.

    We’re allowed to eat in the office at our desks and other people do the same thing. I don’t know if he mocks them the way he did to me, but it was just awkward and I felt uncomfortable.

    I’m going through some stuff in my personal life, so maybe I’m being sensitive, but was Steve being a jerk?

    1. ThatGirl*

      I mean… it’s weird. But I don’t know if it rises to the level of being a jerk without knowing more about Steve. He definitely sounds like he has jerk potential, though.

      1. Empress Matilda*

        This is where I land as well. It’s weird and annoying, but if it’s just a one-off weirdness it’s probably best just to ignore it.

        Hope things settle down in your personal life soon.

    3. londonedit*

      Mocking people isn’t ‘humour’, Steve, it’s rude. I don’t know whether Steve is an overall jerk, but that was a jerky thing to do.

    4. 867-5309*

      Unless he is regularly an odd duck or rude, I would chalk this up to an attempt at humor that did not land.

      3. PollyQ*

        +1. I would bet in his head the joke was, “Look, we’re both eating! Only mine is imaginary! Ha ha ha!” If he isn’t otherwise mocking or derisive to you, I’d let this one go.

    6. NotMy(Fancy)RealName*

      If he does something like that again, try saying “Huh. I thought humor meant something was funny. Learn something new everyday.”

    9. Sea Anemone*

      Definitely weird humor, but I would not have jumped from “mirroring your actions” to “mocking you.” I think you have already given it more head space than it deserves. Practice a raised eyebrow in case he does it again.

      1. londonedit*

        Really? If someone stood in front of me and imitated me chewing something, I’d assume they were taking the piss.

        1. Elizabeth West*

          I would too, to be honest.
          If OP wasn’t smacking loudly and Steve doesn’t do it again, I’d just chalk it up to momentary weirdness.

    10. Rayray*

      Sounds like he’s just the type who thinks he’s hilarious and cute but isn’t actually. It sounds annoying but I personally would just forget it and let it go.

    11. cubone*

      some people are really weird. One of my colleagues does stuff like this, or will like, repeat parts of your email/words in a a jokey or laughing way. I was certain it was really callous/mocking, but as time has gone on, I honestly do think it’s a VERY misguided attempt to “connect” and show you he’s listening.

    12. Put the Blame on Edamame*

      This would make me MURDEROUS with rage, so your response was professional and muted in my book, but what a jerk.

    13. Generic Name*

      He was mocking you. Unless you have an especially warm relationship with him where you tease each other back and forth and both find it enjoyable and funny, I would say that he’s being a jerk. I don’t think you’re being too sensitive at all. If Steve really was innocently trying to make you laugh, he will understand from your reaction that you did not find it funny and he won’t do it again. Bonus points to him if he apologizes.

    14. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

      If he doesn’t do this all the time to you, you might be a little sensitive; but also he was being…immature. The less of a reaction he receives from his little “joke” (good or bad) the less likely it will happen again. Blank stare is the way to go.

    16. Jean*

      Sounds like Steve’s definition of “humor” might be a little loose. I wouldn’t worry about it if I were you. He’s just one of those zillions of dudes who’s not funny but thinks he is.

    17. learnedthehardway*

      I wouldn’t even attempt to interpret his behaviour based on one incident like this – could be he’s a jerk, could be he’s trying and failing to joke with you. Look at the entirety of his behaviour towards you and others, and see what the patterns are. Base your assessment of him on that.

    18. Not So NewReader*

      I assume you are a woman?
      I have seen a lot of this crap from men to other women. Making fun of them for rather mundane thing such as eating a donut.

      I think I would have replied, “And very little at that.” Then returned to my work.

    19. RagingADHD*

      Could be an attempt at playfulness. There are folks who share this kind of silly humor. But if it isn’t something you’d naturally fall in with, it was misplaced.

      Whether he was being awkward or jerkish, you handled it just right by letting it fall flat.

    20. Emma2*

      Steve was being a jerk.
      If he was being “funny,” what was the joke? He was trying to suggest that the way you chew is odd? He was trying to make you feel self conscious for eating? Hilarious.

  18. Anonynon*

    I have a meeting later today with my grand boss where I need to bring up some concerns about my boss, but I’m struggling with not over explaining or getting emotional. Basically, whenever my boss goes out of office, everything falls apart because I wasn’t looped into things and my grand boss is so disconnected from the day to day. I like both my boss and grand boss but am struggling with how to come at this.

    1. Tara*

      Can you not just say that you need more information to stay on top of things when boss is out? What’s the emotional part for you?

      1. Anonynon*

        I think the emotional part is frustration from being asked to make decisions above my pay grade. I feel like I’m over performing, but also stuck in my position due to how my company does promotions.

        2. Tara*

          Let me put it another way. Don’t confuse a conversation about what you need to help you succeed in your role with a conversation about why you’re frustrated.

          2. Ashley*

            And if the decision is to give you a lot more responsibility you could then ask about making those things part of your pay grade. This of course can depend on how often your boss is out — is this an annual issue or monthly.
            Good luck today! Removing the emotion can be tough but necessary.

    2. Decidedly Me*

      What about writing down a list? That way, you have someone to read or just use as a guide. You know you don’t want to over explain or get emotional, so make sure your list sticks to that.

    3. cubone*

      google “DBT Dearman” skills. It’s a therapeutic tool for interpersonal relationships, but I refer back to it all the time for challenging/icky/upsetting work conversations.

    4. Not really a Waitress*

      I had to have a similar conversation with my boss’ boss a few weeks ago. I approached it from a this is why this should concern you. My boss and I work on site, but his boss is based elsewhere. He was not realizing how much my boss is not on site. I approached it as I didn’t want to say anything but now its a running joke in the office about he is never here. Which is a perception issue which does concern the grandboss.

      1. Anonynon*

        This is also one of my concerns. I’ve had a couple cross-functional people complain about how hard my boss is to work with or apologizing that I have to pick up the pieces while he’s out.

    5. Princess Flying Hedgehog*

      Think of it this way: you are flagging an issue for your grandboss that needs to be addressed. Ultimately, your grandboss will decide how to address it (and you can certainly make some suggestions). But start with simply bringing up the issue you’re observing.

    6. The Other Dawn*

      Did you talk to your boss first by asking them to make sure you’re looped in, and what happens when you’re not? Your grand boss will likely ask if you’ve tried to remedy it yourself first. If you haven’t talked to your boss yet, do that first. If you don’t make any headway, then go to the grand boss.

    7. Policy Wonk*

      Do you have some solutions to propose? Focus on what you need rather than what the boss is doing or not doing. By keeping the focus on what you need going forward, you may be able to avoid the emotional response.

      Good luck!

    8. LizB*

      Write down what you’re going to say beforehand (bullet points), focusing very strictly on the facts, then stick to what you wrote unless grandboss asks for more details. “The last few times Jane has been out of the office, I’ve learned once she’s already on leave that I didn’t have all the information I needed to cover things in her absence. For example, last week, I learned that she had promised someone would go to X meeting on the Jones case, but I was never informed, so I missed the meeting. I also had this issue with the Smith case, where I ended up having to make Y decision, which would normally be her responsibility. Something in our process needs to change so we don’t keep running into these problems.”

      Also agreed that it will be better if you can come to the meeting with some suggestions of solutions. If you don’t already have regular check-ins with your boss, can you get those on the calendar and be sure to ask about project status, or can you do a pre-PTO check in to cover that? Can your boss do a handover email before she leaves that goes to both you and grandboss? Are you empowered to either make decisions in your boss’s absence or hand them up to grandboss? Is there a central database where notes can be left so you or grandboss can quickly get up to speed if an urgent issue comes in while boss is out? It sounds like the issue could boil down to “Boss needs to do her job properly and not leave her team high and dry!” but she’s not going to just magically be better about this, you’ll need some kind of system, process, or tool to make it as easy as possible for her to do what you need her to do. Those are the kinds of solutions you can propose.

      1. Anonynon*

        This is perfect as your first example is exactly what happened last week. We had a conversation on Thursday and then everything blew up on Friday.

        We do have regular check-ins but there is also a lot of stuff I don’t have visibility too and that tends to be what comes up when boss goes out. I think I’m going to frame it as a question of what the expectation is for me and my current role. I really appreciate your response, this has been hugely helpful!!

        1. LizB*

          I’m so glad! Yes, clarify what the expectation is – if it’s stuff you really don’t have visibility on, then if your boss wants you involved in her stead, she needs to do a way better job of preparing you ahead of time. In most places I’ve worked, the options in this kind of situation would be a) the issue waits until boss is back or b) the issue gets escalated to a higher level person, even if they don’t actually know the background. If nothing else, the client might take “this will have to wait until Jane returns” better from Jane’s boss than from Jane’s direct report.

    9. Girasol*

      You could give Grand Boss the sort of actionable feedback that subordinates want from managers: exactly what categories of information that you need to be given and why you need to know, with examples. “First, when Boss cancels a llama grooming contract with a customer, I need to know. Last month the acme contract was cancelled and I was not told, so I groomed all their llamas, which put me a day behind on the big project. Second, I need to know …” and so on. If you ask to be informed about things in general, Grand Boss may not understand what you need and how badly you need it, and you’ll be tempted to substitute anger for details. If you give Grand Boss the bullet points, then Grand Boss will understand why a talk with the boss is needed and be all set up to have it.

    10. PollyQ*

      Just checking, have you talked to your boss about these issues yet, maybe even a couple times? I think it would be a big mistake to escalate before you’ve done that.

    11. Not So NewReader*

      I agree with the folks who created specific sample questions for problem areas. Target the recurring problems. When will he be back? Did he remember his appointment today? Did he find the answer for [specific person/department]?

      My boss stays in touch by email. I think she checks it once an hour because I do not go long after an email- then I see her answer. Ask for a way to contact him with questions that pop up.
      If he is not sharing his calendar ask if he will share.

      I get feeling emotional because probably you feel like you are not doing a great job. Turn that emotional aspect around by figuring out what types of things you DO need to do a great job. And then ask for those things.

      You won’t think of every single thing in one meeting- you will have more questions over time. So get a plan of what to do when those questions pop up.

  19. Ali G*

    Can y’all help me out with a script?
    CW: skin condition (I am keeping it as vague as possible so not gross)
    I had been going to the office 2 days a week and I really enjoyed the hybrid schedule. I get my in-person fix, but I can still WFH and have a flexible schedule.
    A few weeks ago I found out I have a skin condition and am treating it. It’s the top of my head, and the medicine is working. The problem is there is a lot of cell turnover going on and it’s clearly visible and kind of gross to look at. So I have been staying home so as to not subject my co-workers to it.
    I have purchased a faux turban to cover my head so I can return to the office and hide my scalp until this is done. Since it’s never something I’ve work before, I’d rather proactively email my coworkers to let them know so they don’t inquire about it when I show up. But I also don’t want to go into the gory details. They know I have been staying home to treat a skin condition. How does this sound for an email:
    “As I mentioned previously I have been staying home to treat a skin condition. While it’s not entirely corrected, I would like to return to the office 2 days a week. I wanted to give you a head’s up I will be wearing a head covering until I am fully healed. I am just letting you know in advance so you don’t worry there is something more serious going on. See you Tuesday!”
    Too much? What do you think?

    1. Valancy Snaith*

      I don’t think I would blink twice at an email like that, and it would probably forestall some (not all) of the comments about “hey, what’s with the turban?” or whatever.

      Good luck healing!

      1. Blue Eagle*

        Looks good to me. I would totally appreciate receiving an email like this in advance so I wouldn’t put my foot in my mouth asking a question about it when you were back in the office.

    2. lily*

      IMO it’s a bit too much. I wouldn’t send an email, just go into the office and if someone comments on the turban, you can just say “Yep, it’s while I’m treating a skin condition, nothing serious. Should be back to normal soon. How bout that [team]?” The email kind of makes it more dramatic than it needs to be.

    3. GigglyPuff*

      I think too much and I’m friends with several coworkers outside work. If you’re friendly like that, telling them individually seems fine. But for anyone else, this seems a little weird. I just wouldn’t mention the turban. If anyone comments, just a “yeah I’m trying something new” seems like it would be fine.

    4. The Smiling Pug*

      Personally, I think this is a great script to use. Decent people will accept this without many thoughts.

      May your journey to healing be swift! :)

    5. Lizzie*

      Honestly, I wouldn’t say anything. IF someone mentions it, you could simply say its because of the skin condition you have, and then change the subject. Chances are, many won’t even mention it! I know if i saw someone wearing a faux turban, i’d just assume there was a reason for it, which is none of my business, and act like it wasn’t a big deal, aka not mention it.
      While some people are nosy and would have no qualms asking about it, you don’t owe anyone any explanation, esp. since its health related.

      1. ThatGirl*

        I agree, but I also know that some people (I am one of them) prefer to get out in front of something perceived as unusual because it makes them (me) anxious to NOT address it. If Ali G wants to preempt their anxiety by saying something up front, I don’t see a problem with that.

        1. Recruited Recruiter*

          ThatGirl, I am one of these people too. I will preemptively notify my co-workers if I am especially stressed, that I am not rude or antisocial, just busy.

        2. Ali G*

          Yeah I probably should have added: they WILL ask about it or maybe even compliment me on it, which I just want to avoid. I’d rather it not be a topic of conversation.

    7. Jules the First*

      Too much! If you feel like you need to mention the hat in advance (which you absolutely don’t!) I’d go with something like “I’ve missed you all while I’ve been working from home. Now that my skin condition is on the mend, my new hat and I will be in a few days a week starting Tuesday. Can’t wait to see you”.

      1. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

        I like this approach. It’s more about “hooray, I’m coming back to the office now that my scalp crud is under control” and the scalp disguise technique can be an aside. It can be delivered as casually as you can manage, depending on the relationships you’ve got with those folks.

        But I also might not mention the specifics until I get there, and then when I get the comment about the headgear, just say “yeah, scalp crud … I didn’t think you’d want to look at that” and just move on.

      2. Rayray*

        I like this too. It addresses it so you hopefully don’t have too many questions or rude stares, but it’s also not too serious.

      3. Analytical Tree Hugger*

        I think either the original script or this one are fine, just depends on whether the office tends to be more formal (original script) or more casual (Jules’ script).

        1. Not So NewReader*

          Yep. Agreed. OP just go with what fits your office and your personality. Some times certain wording just fits with who we are and our over all approach to many things- so that the wording to use here, also.

    8. DivineMissL*

      I had had a small skin cancer removed, it was sort of on my chin just under the corner of my mouth. I went back to work with a bandage over it for about two weeks to cover the scary-looking sutures. A lot of people would come in and make “Oh, did someone punch you in the face? Haha” comments, to which I would say matter-of-factly, “Nope, skin cancer removed, just covering the stitches. What can I help you with today?” After a day or two, folks got used to the bandage (or at least ignored it) and that was the end of it.

    9. JP in the heartland*

      If it’s true, as a coworker who now knows you have a skin condition you’re covering up, I’d like to know it’s not contagious.

      1. Sparkles McFadden*

        I agree with this. Skin conditions tend to freak people out so throwing “non-contagious” into the script would be a good thing.

        I once had to show up at work with the remains of a shingles outbreak on my forehead. I wore a hat and sent a similar note to coworkers in advance (just to avoid answering the question of “What’s with the hat?”). I remember including “Shingles is not contagious” in the note.

          1. Sparkles McFadden*

            Yes…true, but I didn’t return to the office until everything was at the closed over and healing stage..

            But you are right that it would have been best to include the “you can get chicken pox” clarification .

    10. Dark Macadamia*

      If they already know about the skin condition I think an email would be unnecessary. If someone comments you can just be like “yeah, that skin thing is still healing”

    11. Camellia*

      I say no email, and if someone does remark on it, just say, “Yeah, that’s my new look”, and go on with normal conversation. Then when you stop wearing it, if someone remarks, say, “Yup, got tired of it.” No one needs to know your personal stuff.

    12. snorgled*

      I think just addressing any comments/questions that come up in person would be better than sending this email – especially if you’ve mentioned that you’ve been home for treatment, people will be able to put two and two together (and what more serious issue would the turban point to – are you worried they’ll think you have a dark wizard on the back of your head?).

      1. Ali G*

        Definitely Dark Wizard! Haha! A lot of the similar items that I purchased are called chemo-caps or the like, as they are for covering bald heads and/or keeping bald heads warm during chemo.

    13. Mockingjay*

      I know a lot of people who wear turbans. I never wonder whether they were concealing anything. I just admire how they pull off such a cool look!

      If someone does ask, there’s no obligation to provide medical detail. “Oh, just trying a new look.” “Quicker than doing my hair in the morning!” “Bad hair day.” etc.

      1. Ginger Baker*

        I legit did actually wear a Very Colorful Scarf turban-style on two separate occasions when I was so swamped and overwhelmed dealing with Family Medial Stuff that my hair was beyond any ability to even just throw into a decent looking bun, so I covered the whole mess (and then spent, what I will shamefully admit here, was close to an HOUR detangling that night…on, again, two different occasions…sigh). No one commented at all and I even took a few selfies because it was a pretty cute look.

    14. Virginia Plain*

      I think it’s a good idea to say something and your script seems fine. Frankly if you don’t say anything there will be a rumour you have cancer round the office before you’ve hung your coat up, because people. Easier to say up front and preempt that than to try to get the truth round the office, especially when people aren’t normally so rude (although they may jump to conclusions!) as to say “hey have you got cancer” so you probably wouldn’t get chance to put them straight.

  20. lily*

    I manage a small team who strongly wants our company to go 100% remote. My CEO is about to announce a hybrid model. Anyone have any thoughts on how to handle this with them? I want to send the message that I’ll still give our team as much flexibility as possible within the new policy, and hope they will give it a chance, but if it’s not working for them I hope they will come to me (and not just quit).

      1. Lizzie*

        I agree with this; because you can’t change it, but you CAN work with them if it’s really an issue. Just because people want something, doesn’t mean they’ll always get it.

    2. Not My Usual Name*

      So…my company imposed a hybrid model on a lot of us earlier this month. I’m very not happy about this. I guess I would suggest being as honest and straightforward as possible with your team about it.

      Maybe something like “The CEO has decided that we’ll be going hybrid for now; I know that’s disappointing for some/many of you. Here’s what we’ll be doing (insert relevant info here), and I’ll work with you individually to give you as much flexibility as possible within the new policy. I hope you’ll all give it a chance – as always, please talk to me about things with this that aren’t working for you.”

      And don’t expect people to perform feelings about how GREAT it is to be BACK IN THE OFFICE!

      1. Pocket Mouse*

        I’d suggest acknowledging that for some people, a hybrid option is the best fit, and ask them to keep an open mind to see if the hybrid model works well, or works well enough, for them. At the same time, commit to continuing to push for the CEO to consider 100% remote options in the future.

    3. NoviceManagerGuy*

      How much latitude do you have administering the “hybrid” model? “Oh yeah my team comes in for special events, it’s hybrid”

    5. ecnaseener*

      I would be careful with the “come to me first, don’t just quit” messaging unless you really have the ability to help make this work for them. If less than 100% remote work is a total dealbreaker for people, and hybrid work is completely mandatory…

    6. Daffodilly*

      So CEO has announced a policy
      You say you’ll “work with them” – but how much, if any latitude do you actually have within the policy?
      And if you cannot make it work for them, why exactly should they come to you? What will you be able to do?
      If my boss tried to work with me, but ultimately the policy was too restrictive, I would not go to my boss again. I’d bounce as soon as possible and the company doesn’t get to know about my job search until I’m set up with another position.
      People who want remote work – and have a job where they can do it remotely – should be allowed to work remotely if that’s what works best for them. Time to get rid of the “Butts must be in the seats I can see” mentality.
      People who want to work hybrid or 100% in person should also have that option.

    7. allathian*

      How much leeway do you actually have in implementing the policy? If you’re only passing on the CEO’s decision, what exactly are you hoping to accomplish by telling them to come to you rather than just quit?

      I do think that it’s out of line for your team to want your whole company to go 100 remote, it’s completely unrealistic. But could you negotiate for your team to be fully remote, even if the rest of the company goes hybrid?

      Whatever you do, I expect that you’re going to lose some people. But that’s just business, and I highly doubt that all of your team will quit, simply because the number of fully remote jobs is limited.

      Please tell your team that they don’t have to pretend to you that they’re happy about the change. Let them gripe. Once they get that off their chest, they’ll be more likely to shrug their shoulders and get on with doing their jobs in spite of a change they’re unhappy with.

    8. Laney Boggs*

      Yeah tbh there isn’t anyone on our team that’s happy about “hybrid” and no one actually cares that it’s the CEO’s opinion and not our manager’s

      Unfortunately, people will start looking to leave if it’s important to them.

      1. Iced Mocha Latte*

        Speaking as a manager who has this same situation (CEO will allow hybrid only, whole team wants 100% remote) and is stuck enforcing the requirements around hybrid, you’re right in that none of them care that it’s the CEO’s decision and not mine. It truly sucks and I hate it. It’s incredibly frustrating to be blamed for making sure we comply with what senior management expects. I admit it’s a bit rigid and I’m not thrilled either, but the company has never had hybrid before so I think they’re erring on the side of caution, which of course is causing frustration. And if we don’t show we’re complying, they’ll take it away. I don’t want that to happen. We’ve already had one person leave for a 100% remote job, and I’m guessing we might lose one or two more; it’s a small department of less than 10 people.

  21. avocadotacos*

    How far in advance can you ask for a sick day? Do people get weird about you knowing you’re going to be sick that far in advance?

    1. CTT*

      Is the sick day related to a treatment or something that you know will flare up at a specific time? Like, I knew based on my reaction to my first COVID vaccine dose I would probably feel cruddy after the second one, so I let people know about a week ahead of time (which is the standard head’s up on my team if you are taking time off). Since I explained it as “second COVID jab, probably going to take the next day off,” no one questioned it, but if it was just “I will be sick next Friday” I think it would have come off as really odd, and possibly like I think I’m psychic.

    2. Lisa B*

      Depends on your company and how they expect sick time to be used. Here it’s also what you use for doctor’s appointments, so nobody would bat an eye at scheduling a sick day.

      1. Lizzie*

        Same here. As I mentioned below, I’ll put it down as being off on a certain day, and maybe mention to my immediate boss why Im off, and that maybe, if I’m having a procedure etc., i may be out the following day, depending on how I feel, or I’ll be out in the afternoon for a dr. appt, which is allowed too, but if I’m just sick, no notice, as I agree that seems kind of odd

      2. Sunflower*

        Correct- but also check your local laws! In NY, you are legally allowed to use sick leave for pre-scheduled appointments, to care for sick relatives or even for safe leave. Many major cities have similar rules. My manager was not aware you could do this (but HR was) so it was a bit awkward when I asked for a day off for an appointment. It all ended fine but do not let an uninformed manager discourage you from taking your legally entitled time off.

        1. Lizzie*

          Haha. my state too and my boss can be kind of “suspicious” about stuff like this, if HE isn’t aware of how things work. Which most of the time he can’t be bothered finding out either! But now that he’s had to take time for both he and his wife for “health stuff” i’d be willing to bet he’s more aware of what is allowed and what isn’t

    3. Lizzie*

      I am lucky in that I don’t have to “ask” for time off, sick, vacation or any other. I just look at the calendar, make sure no one else in my group is going to be out, and mark down I’m taking PTO. As its a shared calendar for a few groups, i don’t specify whether its sick or vacation, I put that on my timesheet where only my boss can see.
      I can see asking in advance if you are having surgery, or a procedure, etc., and if I had to do that, I’d ask as soon as I knew the dates for it.

      1. Rayray*

        I agree. We’re all adults and should be able to use our pto as we see fit without permission so long as we follow the correct protocol. I don’t understand work places where people have to justify their pto usage.

        1. Lizzie*

          I get it if only so many can be off, certain times are more desirable than others, and coverage is a must. But where you just have to make sure that you aren’t off when someone else is, i really appreciate the fact that we don’t have to request it off, we can just put it down and that’s that.

    4. londonedit*

      Well, in my working culture, sick days are for when you’re unexpectedly ill. So it would be very strange for someone to say ‘I’m going to take a sick day on October 15th’. But if you’re talking about taking leave for a medical issue that you know is coming up, like a hospital procedure that involves taking a day off, or an operation or whatever, then I think it’s absolutely fine to let your manager know about that as soon as you have the date(s).

    5. LadyByTheLake*

      Some people do get weird. I think if you ask for a sick day in advance, you may have to explain why you know you will be sick “I’m going to have a vaccine/procedure and I have been warned that I will be ill/need recovery time” whatever it is.

    6. Teapot Repair Technician*

      Boss will probably assume that you have a medical appointment. They’re not going to think that you somehow magically know that you’re going to catch a cold that day.

    7. Sunflower*

      Whether I’m emailing my boss to ask/give her the heads up or just telling coworkers, I usually just say ‘I’m going to be out for an appointment/procedure, etc) instead of saying ‘I am taking a sick day that day’- just say that regardless of why you’ll taking a sick day. It’s not really anyone’s business and as far as I’m concerned, it only matters when it comes to internal coding to ensure I’m not going over my allotted PTO. I very rarely get any further questions.

    8. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      If it’s a medical appointment, scheduling sick time as soon as your appointment is booked makes sense to me with a note, “I have a medical appointment (and will need __ days to recover if applicable).” No further details needed.

      If it’s a recurring flare up, maybe a big picture conversation with your manager once, then a week in advance if you’re quite sure it’ll happen: “I think my medical condition may flare up, so blocking time out in case.” Again, no need too go into details. This may differ if taking FMLA or equivalent outside of the U.S.

    9. AnotherLibrarian*

      If you know you are going to be out for a doctors appointment or something, then just give people a heads up and don’t worry about it. That’s assuming your sick leave is used that way.

  22. Persephone Mongoose*

    I’m struggling with a bit of imposter syndrome this week.

    I started six months ago at my current job doing in-house IT for an education non-profit. I do not have a background in IT or any certifications, but do have three years’ experience at an MSP and know how to Google.

    For the most part, things have been going well, but recently our org’s intranet went belly-up due to a bitcoin mining virus. It took weeks of troubleshooting and finally hiring an external consultant when I realized how much coding/SQL/Linus knowledge is required to even run the damn thing. My experience with the intranet is all front-end admin work.

    The consultant got it back up and running almost immediately, so now I’m just kicking myself more for not knowing what I’m doing with this platform and also not acknowledging to myself sooner that no, I’m not going to learn how to navigate AWS and Linux in a day, so we need to get outside help pronto.

    Now I’m being asked about creating developer keys for the new LMS we’re building and I don’t know how to do that either. I’m just so frustrated by my own knowledge gaps as well as the lack of knowledge transfer before I came on. Nothing in the job description listed anything about needing to know any of these things and to top it all off, my predecessor has a PhD in this field. How am I supposed to follow that?

    I don’t even know if I’m looking for advice or just ranting, but thanks for reading anyway.

    1. IT Kat*

      I can say, from over a decade working in IT, that you’re always going to run into things you don’t know. You probably already know that, but I still get questions like that occasionally and have to struggle with my own imposter syndrome even though I have coworkers who think I’m knowledgeable, I don’t feel like it.

      The thing to do is just the best you can, be up front if you don’t know anything and offer to learn it (or ask if it makes sense to learn it). But don’t try to hide if you don’t know something, it just leads to more issues down the line.

      1. Persephone Mongoose*

        Absolutely. That’s pretty much what I’ve been doing and it’s definitely lessened the amount of imposter syndrome than what I would have felt in the past. To be clear, I am *always* up front when I don’t know something and made that abundantly clear in this case. People were understanding, which is great.

        I think in this instance, it was the amount of time between “okay, I know nothing about this, let me see what I can figure out” and “okay, I am absolutely in way over my head and need outside help” that really bit me in the butt. I needed to let go of the idea that I could eventually figure it out much sooner.

    2. Choggy*

      Is there an option for you to engage the consultant to not only train you, but become a resource for changes or issues? It’s not what you know coming in, but the actions you take to get the knowledge (once you realize you need it) which will stand out. I have been relying more and more on our consultants/vendors because we are bringing in new technology that no one knows, so we need all the help we can get now and moving forward. I have no qualms about saying I don’t know something, and asking for help.

    3. Gloucesterina*

      What is your relationship with your boss like? Would there be an opening to ask for explicit agreements and understandings you need to be effective within the bounds of your role (e.g., make an explicit agreement that if system encounters a problem that you cannot fix within XYZ time frame and level of reasonable effort, call this specialist? That is, depending on the scale of problem, does it make sense to invest in training for you or have a standing plan to activate the specialist?)

    4. BadCultureFit*

      So I’m coming from the angle of running/owning intranets on the editorial side, but yeah, if my intranet goes down and my IT person doesn’t know how to fix it, I’d be deeply concerned.

      Maybe have some discussions about what is expected in this role? Now that you know intranet maintenance is needed, you can put a plan around who/when to contact outside help next time, so you feel better prepared?

      Regardless, sorry you had a bad week!

  23. WT*

    My job is to “pre-review” my department’s plans/reports and point out discrepancies and other problems before the documents get out to other departments, and my manager seems to be unusually defensive when I go over what I think the departments will have questions about with him.

    Is the defensiveness normal?? I don’t know if he perceives it as normal discussion and it’s also my job to argue why I think so-and-so should be fixed, but I have no strong feelings about the success of the project and my view is I’m only relaying my observations and whatever he says is the final decision. In any case, I don’t find these meetings enjoyable and I will gladly be less thorough next time just to make the meetings shorter and less stressful than they are. (And no, switching to emails isn’t an option. I’ve tried.)

    1. Tara*

      “ and I will gladly be less thorough next time just to make the meetings shorter and less stressful than they are”

      Don’t do this!

      Is defensiveness normal? It’s certainly not uncommon. It’s worth remembering in jobs like this – where you need to tell people to change things – that this IS the job, or part of it, rather than something that gets in the way of doing your job. It can be easy to think of reviewing the documents as the job, and the people bits as an inconvenience. When in fact what you are doing is stakeholder management, which is evidently a part of your duties.

      I would consider how you are conveying the changes and whether you could do it differently. How are you introducing / framing them? Are you doing it in a very critical or personal way? You can say the same thing in different ways and get very different results.

      I do a lot of this kind of thing (pointing out issues, persuading people to change things) and I always try to make people feel like we are a team approaching things together. So I might say things like “I’ve got some thoughts to run past you” or “OK so a few things for you to consider”. I use “see what you think” a lot to give people a sense of ownership over any changes. I focus on what we need to do and not how they have made a mistake.

      Change up your communication. Experiment. Some people are more defensive, but dealing with that is part of your job.

    2. Sparkles McFadden*

      Yep…that’s just what some people are like. I liked writing things out in bullet point format and giving that list to the boss in advance so he could manage his reactions before we had a meeting, but it sounds as if that won’t work for you. I am sorry, because it’s hard to be doing your best to do a good job and have people take it personally.

      Part of one of my jobs was software testing. When I would present my boss and the vendor rep with a bug list/wish list, the response I often got was “It’s like you’re trying to make the software fail!” I’d have to answer “Well…yeah. That’s my job here.”

    3. Elle*

      I really like the bullet-point idea. I can absolutely get defensive in person when given corrections, just because my anxiety level is high and difficult to control. If there’s any way you can deliver the brunt of things some other way besides face-to-face, that might be ideal.

    4. Ali G*

      Is he defensive but still act appropriately on the advice you give him? If so I would say you just chalk it up to his working style. Some people just react negatively to everything right at first. As long as he isn’t blatantly ignoring all your suggestions and you can still reasonably do your job, I’d just try to muscle through the meetings.

    5. Mockingjay*

      Can the problems be categorized? That might make things easier and quicker for review. For instance, you and Manager can agree that you’ll handle typos and grammar errors, no need for Manager to review low-level stuff. Content errors and questions will be flagged for the review session.

      Always address the error, not the person. Provide context, maybe the solution. “Paragraph 3 discusses teapot sales for the current quarter, but the data table is for the previous quarter. I can download the current numbers and paste them in.”

    6. Not So NewReader*

      Ask him if he’d like you to do something differently.

      Or add more words to what you are saying.
      EX:
      Current method: I was looking at x report and noticed it was off by 20% from Y report.
      Adding more words: I think that the ABC department will ask about the 20% difference between the x report and the Y report.

      Avoid the word “you”.
      EX:
      Current method: You show x report as being 20% less than Y report.
      Avoiding the word “you” and adding more words: I think that the ABC department will ask about the 20% difference between the x report and the Y report.

    7. Cold Fish*

      Just something to think about…. but could any of the defensiveness be coming from your delivery?

      I like straightforwardness but when my anxiety is high, it can come off as more confrontational than I would have liked. Some softening language may go over better.

      Ex. 1: Paragraph 2 is confusing and too technical. Department Z won’t understand what you’re going for. I think it needs re-written.
      Ex. 2: I could follow paragraph 2 but think those with less technical knowledge, like Department Z, may have a hard time. Is there a way to make this a little more user-friendly?

  24. OkapiFeels*

    I’d like a gut check and advice if anyone has it. Tl;dr: I had to ask to be taken off a task because of my ptsd and my grandboss got really involved and is telling me i need to disclose my ptsd to hr.

    Long version: I am on a committee for an important but nonetheless voluntary taak that’s not part of my normal job duties. Think: writing the monthly community newsletter. There was a recent shift from everyone in x semi-creative position being able to contribute if they want (with very mixed results), to a hand-picked team in a more “magazine editorial” style setup.

    This new setup means we can suggest topics but the “editorial team” decides and assigns what we do–so we no longer get to pick and choose what we do, it gets assigned to us. Last month, i was assigned to cover a local community that my abusive ex was/is heavily involved with. I knew that covering this not only would trigger my ptsd, but could potentially draw the attention of my ex and be unsafe. I tried asking to withdraw “for personal reasons;” the topic is spiritual in nature so i figured I’d get misinterpreted, but that my request would be granted, especially considering the relative importance of it.

    In reality, the person running the “newsletter” committee reported me to my grandboss for “refusing to work” and turned down my request. I figured i had been too vague, so i had a coworker help me draft an email where i, without going into many details, revealed that i was asking to withdraw because of an ADA covered condition and encouraged the person running the committee to call me if she needed details.

    My grandboss ended up meeting with me over all of this, even though the committee leader and i had sorted things out by then. She asked me a lot of pointes questions that rang a bell, and which i later confirmed she had pulled her phrasing directly from the ADA website. She asked a lot of questions about my ability to do other parts of my job and kept questioning why, exactly, i couldn’t do this, and why it was a big deal. (My answer was in short that i have enough autonomy in my work that i can mitigate triggers myself, but i wasn’t given a choice in being assigned this and wasn’t given any other outlet to say so. And no, it won’t affect my work, because I’ve had both thw job and the ptsd for almost a decade and this is the first time it’s come up.) She repeatedly questioned whether i was secretly not doing my job in other ways due to this, if it was hampering me (at this point using the phrasing from the part of the ada website about the circumstances under which you CAN punish/fire ada covered employees…) She then explained ptsd to me (which: ….), and told me i really, really ought to disclose my ptsd to hr, to “avoid misunderstandings” going forward.

    So…advice would be helpful. Should i tell HR? How do i strategize to protect myself going forward? I do have a union but i want outside opinions.

    1. Meghan*

      Ugh. That person reporting you is an ass, #1.
      #2, how is the HR at your work? Do you have a good report with them? I think your answer hinges on that. But also, I WOULD get the union involved with this, because grilling you over an ADA condition over something that is technically voluntary is kinda weird.

    2. 867-5309*

      Throwing out the ADA piece very likely threw them off, since it was the first mention of it and until then you had not requested accommodations. It does not help you now but I probably would not have thrown that out there, and instead gone to grand boss in private. (Also, do you have diagnosed PTSD that is covered under ADA or are you self-diagnosed?) Please know that I am NOT suggesting what you would through is not traumatic or that you do not have PTSD, but ADA requires doctor verification, normally, when requesting accommodations so that could be throwing off your boss.

      As for what to do now…

      I would start with a conversation with grand boss to clear the air: I want to be clear that the PTSD is related to a very specific circumstance that never comes up during the course of the regular work and was related to this small, volunteer piece of writing I was asked to do and could not have foreseen. Should I need any further accommodations or something in the future, I will be sure to communicate that clearly so the necessary steps can be taken but right now, I do not anticipate that.

      If they continue, then I think you do need to engage HR because it begins to veer into harassment.

      1. Sea Anemone*

        “ADA requires doctor verification”

        The ADA requires doctor’s support for the need for the accommodation requested. Employers are very specifically prevented from asking for a diagnosis, however.

    3. Sea Anemone*

      And no, it won’t affect my work, because I’ve had both thw job and the ptsd for almost a decade and this is the first time it’s come up.

      I see where you are going with this, but it just did impact your work. You had to ask to be removed from an assignment. And, you have a new set up where you are assigned work, so it could happen again. I advise disclosing.

      Btw, there is no such thing as an ADA covered condition. The ADA covers requesting and granting accommodations. This might seem like splitting hairs, but the law is quite hairy. You can’t just announce that you have an “ADA covered condition” on the fly and expect to be granted what you ask for. You have to request accommodations in anticipation of a need, and you might not get the specific accommodation that you ask for. In addition, you still have to be able to complete the core job duties.

      1. Observer*

        I see where you are going with this, but it just did impact your work. You had to ask to be removed from an assignment. And, you have a new set up where you are assigned work, so it could happen again. I advise disclosing.

        Except that this committee is supposed to be voluntary. And it is clearly not part of the core parts of the job. And, even outside of the ADA, when someone asks to be relieved of an assignment that can be covered by other people without disruption, it’s a jerk move to not only refuse but to report it as refusing to do their job.

        My suggestion would be to drop out of this voluntary gig. Yes, it’s important, but if the people managing this are going to be this inflexible, then you need to not be stuck with it.

        1. cmcinnyc*

          Seconded. This “voluntary” part of your job just kicked up a serious cloud of dust. I especially think the person doing the assigning was out of line reporting you for “refusing to work.” Is this *not* voluntary? I’d drop the newsletter business and get your union involved stat. I do *not* recommend disclosing the details of your ptsd if you can avoid it. The misconceptions around domestic violence, ptsd, the ADA, all of it… you want to keep explaining this to your jerk of a grandboss for his/her “approval?” It sounds like this person thinks they can sit in judgement of whether it “really” is that bad and if you deserve accommodation. (for a volunteer thing????)

    4. Panicked*

      HR is typically the coordinator for all things ADA. If you’re asking for ADA coverage, then yes, HR should be looped in. That being said, your grandboss should back off. There are no “misunderstandings;” you have a covered medical reason for not wanting to be assigned a project that triggers your PTSD. Full stop.

      Hopefully you won’t have to deal with this again (and if you’ve been doing this for a decade and this is the first time it’s come up, it seems as though chances are slim), but if you do, you can absolutely ask for reasonable accommodations under the ADA through HR. Assigning you to another task for the newsletter is easy and appears to require little to no effort/cost/hardship to the company.

      1. OkapiFeels*

        I requested a different task in my original request, and I ended up being given one, so you’re dead on, that’s how easy it was to resolve.

      2. quill*

        Speaking of “misunderstandings” when you go to HR maybe mention that grandboss is really pushing you to disclose more than you’re comfortable with.

      3. AcademiaNut*

        Yeah, that’s what it comes down to. If you’ve formally requested accommodation under the ADA, HR really does need to be looped in – you’ve moved into the realm of employment law, and things are going to need to be official. You can’t really say that you want formal accommodation as required by the law, but you also want it to be informal and off the record.

    6. Double A*

      Hm. So it sounds like your invoked the ADA but you don’t actually have your condition on file so you don’t formally have accommodations (correct me if I’m wrong). And this makes sense as you generally don’t need them!

      I think what maybe went a bit sideways here was you possibly didn’t need to invoke the ADA in your first conversation. I get why you did, in order to convey the seriousness of the request. But I think your first conversation could have been, “I can’t cover this topic because there is a safety risk to me. Can I be assigned a different topic?”

      I think it wouldn’t hurt to have a conversation with HR at this point? Otherwise, you should avoid using language about the ADA going forward because you do need to disclose your disability in order to have the protection.

    7. CCC*

      It sounds like your condition has affected your work, and you need accommodations. Following the process for accommodations is really the only way that you can protect yourself moving forward. ADA isn’t a magic word that you can say to make problems go away. You, your employer, and your doctor work together to find a way for you to be able to engage fully in your work and workplace. So yes, you should go to HR and tell them you require accommodations.

      1. Observer*

        It sounds like your condition has affected your work, and you need accommodations.

        Not really. This is a side, voluntary task. And it could have been dealt with with no disruption. Someone chose to make an issue out of something that should not have been an issue. That’s not something that is actually affecting their ACTUAL job.

        The Grandboss trying to turn that into a digging expedition to claim that it’s actually IS affecting their actual job that they are doing is out of line. Nor is pressuring the OP to disclose information. If there is any evidence that the OP is actually not doing their job, then ALL the Grandboss can ask for is medical documentation of what accommodations would work. And at that point they would have to decide whether those accommodations make sense and are doable. But there is no way that allowing someone to take a different task on a VOLUNTARY work project that is not even part of an employees job would be considered anything close to an undue burden.

        1. CCC*

          If you get paid to do it, it’s part of your work, even if it’s optional or usually not your job. Grandboss is absolutely out of line. But the only way for Okapi to protect themselves in the future from Grandboss or a jerk colleague is to get the accommodations on file. If Okapi goes through the process with HR, they can say to Grandboss, “If you have any more questions about this, HR Susie can fill you in on my accommodations.”

          I absolutely agree this won’t be an undue burden. I’m familiar with the process. It could be that HR says “Hey, it looks like this accommodation you’ve asked for isn’t necessary because it’s outside of your duties, but we’ll document it anyway.” It sounds like Okapi is in a situation where their work isn’t normally triggering, but it is adjacent to their trigger. Personally, that would be close enough that I’d want to avail myself of the legal protections that I am due. But of course everyone is different.

          1. OkapiFeels*

            I work in a public sphere, where my work is adjacent to anything and everything. Honestly, that’s a big part of why I’m struggling so hard to picture the conversation with HR; do i just….give them a list of all of my known triggers and then e-mail them any time i find a new one?

            1. Sea Anemone*

              Do you still have a health care provider? I saw that you have a diagnosis, but I don’t know if you can still see that person. I would talk to your health care provider about how to word the request. In a nutshell, you want to be able to request a new topic if something triggers your ptsd. Between askjan and your healthcare provider, try to work up something sort of general that doesn’t get to personal about what the triggers are. Make that a first request, and assume HR will have more questions for you. Since your grandboss was sympathetic to the request and you did get a different assignment, assume that they are acting in good faith and want to give you things to do that won’t trigger PTSD. However, they have to mind their ps and qs legally, so they might need things from you. A good HR will have an ongoing conversation.

          2. Dolly was Right*

            This is a very good point. I think you’re a bit confused- understandably- of how these things work. Generally, HR will not have a list of things that people can not approach you with. HR can’t and won’t make sure you are never given a task that is covered- it will be up to you to determine if it’s something you can’t do based on your covered condition, bring it to HR and they will work with you to determine if it’s covered or not.

            I think some of your concerns comes from that you don’t seem to trust almost anyone you work with- the guy who reported you to grandboss(jerk IMO so deserved) grandboss(you seem to think she is trying to trip you up and say you’re incapable of doing your job) and HR(you say they are literal-minded). It generally makes for not good feelings in the work place if you feel you can’t trust anyone so I would just mentally flag that as something to consider and if this is worth potentially finding a new job over.

            HR deals with several avenues of things and an employee dispute is not in the same camp of a legal accommodation. I don’t know much about your interactions with HR but IME there is a pretty clear line about where and who handles certain issues- things that aren’t covered by law are better handled by your manager (ie that the guy went above your head in the first place) and legal issues are best handled by HR(the ADA accommodation) so your situation has put you directly in the middle of 2 very separate things.

        2. OkapiFeels*

          You’ve reminded me of a key context here that I probably should have mentioned–I was recently officially reprimanded for “purposefully not doing work on work time.” The full context is complicated–in short, my work keylogs every work computer and they caught out me and several others complaining about work via discord. the choice to reprimand us was unusually severe for our org, and seems likely motivated by the fact that we were complaining about work. (Yes, i was being stupid as all get out. I’m never doing anything even slightly like this again. The fact that it felt perfectly justified at the time doesn’t change the fact that it was stupid to do at work. And for other reasons, i can’t really fight the reprimand.)

          I myself am undecided on how unnecessary this conversation was. I mean, i think it was bullshit, but more because i think society should work differently, not because i expected to go unquestioned. I knew the situation was weird and awkward, and i knew I’d have to explain myself, but the larger sociopolitical context of my workplace and my relationship to my grandboss made me give a lot of internal side-eye to the way she approached this.

          1. AvonLady Barksdale*

            That context is pretty important, I think! Sounds a bit like you were reprimanded, you were sort of mildly reprimanded again, you brought up the ADA. If I were your boss I’d be asking super pointed questions too, because it sounds like a legal issue is about to pop up. In the future, if something like this comes up, you have to start with a conversation about your refusal. You don’t have to give details, but you have to be pretty up-front– you have a conflict of interest and will be unable to do this task, how can we resolve this.

          2. Observer*

            That does change things. The person who reported you is still a jerk, but it’s not surprising for the GrandBoss to be looking to see if you are using the ADA to cover for other issues.

            Still out of line, but you probably need a slightly different approach here.

        3. PollyQ*

          There’s no such thing as a completely voluntary task at work, and the fact that it was easy to accomodate because of its being a side task doesn’t mean that it wasn’t an accomodation at all.

    8. Observer*

      I think you may have made a mistake in invoking the ADA here. But in any case, you should loop your HR in.

      Explain that you have never brought up ADA because your condition is highly unlikely to affect your ACTUAL job, but now that the GrandBoss knows that you might have an ADA covered condition, she seems to be concerned about your job performance. Also, talk to the person running the committee leader and HR about whether it might be a good idea to drop out of this newsletter project.

    9. Dolly was Right*

      So..it sounds like the original person is a jerk but I’m also putting myself in your bosses shoes and I’m guessing your boss went to HR and asked them what to do because if my direct report brought up an ADA accommodation to me, then yes, that is what I would need to do. I understand this wasn’t your intention but I think you unknowingly opened up a big can of legal stuff when you said you had an ADA covered condition and your company needs to be sure they are not violating any sort of ADA or legal laws right now. I get why you may be taking your bosses questions personally but they sound like textbook, CYA legal things they might need to say to someone who has not disclosed an ADA accommodation. IIRC- and I could be wrong!- HR can not come to you and ask if you need an ADA accommodation, you need to approach them. So that could be why your boss is asking you to disclose to them.

      I totally understand where you’re coming from and why you said what you said (because the original person IS a huge jerk and I’d probably panic too) but agree that throwing out the ADA thing probably threw everyone for a loop and caused some confusion.

      I would go back to your grandboss and explain the situation. If she is a reasonable person, she will understand and hopefully can make this go away. I wouldn’t go to HR right away until I spoke with my boss. I totally understand your reaction and I’m not trying to fault you but looking at it from the other side, I don’t think anyone is trying to undermine you.

      1. OkapiFeels*

        So you’ve hit on a related issue–if I go to HR, i actually don’t have a specific accommodation I think I wohld reasonably need or ask for related to my ptsd. So I’m at a loss as to…what hr can do and how it would help, i guess?

        I mean, i know what’s triggered me before, but i literally couldn’t have envisioned this scenario if i tried, so it’s not like i could’ve requested a specific accommodation for this ahead of time. Is there such a thing as an accommodation for “if employee says they can’t do it and it’s not a core job duty we grant that request?” Because…that’s how i thought workplaces were supposed to work to begin with.

        I guess i need to talk to my psych about what ptsd accommodations look like, but I’m just…struggling to understand how to have that conversation in a way thar has constructive results. My workplace hr is also known to be very literal-minded, so “i have ptsd and can’t tell you how it’ll affect my work but it might” won’t be good enough.

        1. RagingADHD*

          That’s not just your work HR, though. That’s the way accommodations work.

          Accommodations are based on impact. They can’t plan or document accommodations without some kind of scope or specificity.

        2. PollyQ*

          “if employee says they can’t do it and it’s not a core job duty we grant that request?” Because…that’s how i thought workplaces were supposed to work to begin with.

          It isn’t, though. The employer gets to define what the tasks for a job are and also gets to change them any time they want. Unless you’re in a union or have a legally regulated job, then your boss can tell you to do just about anything, and if you decline, they can fire you. But if it’s something you can’t do because for a medical reason and it’s not considered a core duty, then ADA might protect you.

          It might be worth talking with your therapist about why this particular task was a problem and try to predict what other things might be an issue in the future. Then you could bring that info to HR, although I would say you can still emphasize that you’re not sure exactly what might or might not be a problem specifically.

    10. RosyGlasses*

      Lots of great advice in this thread. I would also offer the resource askjan (dot) org – it is the ADA compliance website that is run for free and helps employers and employees navigate the law and how to ask/give accommodations and support. They have live advisors you can reach out to and they may be able to help you understand what your responsibility is to your company in terms of what information to provide and when.

    11. Dino*

      I think this would have been a good time to state this as a conflict of interest, rather than as a “personal” problem. ADA definitely added an element you didn’t want. In the future if something similar happens, I’d state that it wouldn’t be appropriate for me to handle X due to a conflict of interest.

    12. RagingADHD*

      The other commenters have made great points about how ADA works and the mechanics of what happens when you invoke it.

      I know the horse is out of the barn now, but perhaps in future it would be more useful to find a middle ground between totally unspecified “personal reasons” and going full “formal accommodations.”

      Like, “Can I swap assignments with someone? I have a bad personal history with [community] and not only would I not be able to do an unbiased article, I have reason to believe my involvement could lead to retaliation against me or against the company.”

      So you aren’t disclosing any details about your history of abuse or your ex, or your PTSD. You also aren’t making it sound like you just are anti-religion or anti-[community] for no reason. But you are giving them some very clear and logical reasons why it just makes sense to swap.

      1. WellRed*

        I second this. Also op, you asked above if you need to keep indentifuing triggers but what you need to do is identify the accommodation/s. I get why it’s stumping you in this situation but if the only thing that you can’t do is write about things that trigger you, the accommodation in theory would be to not do writing assignments. Or be able to choose the assignment.

    13. Cold Fish*

      I don’t know all the in’s and out’s of HR or ADA but my first instinct is to say… go to HR, not to disclose your PTSD but about Committee Lead. Something like,
      “I wanted to report an incident that made me incredibly uncomfortable. I have volunteered for the community newsletter for a while now, and have enjoyed it since I could write articles of interest to me. However, now that has changed and I was assigned an article I did not feel comfortable writing about. I emailed the committee lead and asked to be taken off article for personal reasons but she pushed back to the point I felt I had no recourse but to disclose a very personal information and a medical issue. Even after disclosure she kept interrogating me and implying that I was unfit for my job and has taken this to Grandboss who is now questioning me. I would like advise on how to move forward.”

    14. Portia*

      Talk to an employment lawyer. This is far beyond the abilities of an Internet forum. Most plaintiff side employment lawyers will work with you on payment plans, so if you are (understandably!) concerned about cost, don’t let that be an insurmountable obstacle.

      1. RagingADHD*

        I am really curious as to what employment law issues you believe might be at play here.

        OP invoked ADA without any prior request or documentation of accommodations.

        The boss asked clarifying questions drawn from official ADA public guidance, and then encouraged OP to get their accommodations formally documented in order to make sure everything was done properly.

        Grandboss also asked questions about whether there were impacts on other parts of OPs job, since there was at least one prior situation when OP was (justifiably) reprimanded for avoiding work.

        Why does OP need a lawyer, do you think?

  25. LadyByTheLake*

    I’m torn — I’ve been working on a temporary basis at a job that I have often hated with every fibre of my being. Some of the work and people are great, but most of it has been a constant exercise in frustration. Most of the time I’ve been there I’ve been counting the minutes until I can leave. I found out on Monday that my contract will end at the end of this month and strangely, I’m a little salty about it. I think I’m peeved because I can’t do a warm handover to the person taking over the role and I’m worried that it will look like I just dropped everything. The problem is that my boss has zero understanding of what the role actually entails (a large source of my frustration) and so he thinks there is no handoff needed, when in truth an overlap of at least a week would be in order. Any suggestions on how to either let it go, or give people a heads up that the new person will be starting from scratch?

    1. WellRed*

      This is so not your problem. A warm handover? Not your problem or even realistic. Be glad to be shot of a job you hate.

    2. Put the Blame on Edamame*

      Not your circus, not your monkeys – if the new person is starting from scratch that is on your manager, not you.

    3. Sparkles McFadden*

      Document as much as you can and then wash your hands of everything. Keep telling yourself that this is not your problem to solve. The lack of understanding is probably one of the major reasons you hate the place, so be glad you’re leaving.

    4. PollyQ*

      Given that 2 weeks notice is almost never enough time to hire a new person, it’s actually really common for a new employee to not have access to the previous employee in a role for training or handover. Document what you do as best you can, and then remind yourself that your boss has made his choice, and whatever happens next is entirely on him.

      1. LadyByTheLake*

        Part of the issue is that they didn’t give me enough warning so I won’t have time to document anything — I had been expecting two weeks warning, but it is turning out to be more like 5 days (given some already planned PTO). But you’re right, I just need to let it go. It’s hard.

        1. Windchime*

          I’m kind of in this situation. I told my team months ago that I was planning to leave, but nobody was ever chosen to take over my tasks until this week. So she’s getting a couple of meetings and a giant one-note file, and that’s about it. It’s not going to be my problem in a few days, and it’s not my fault that they didn’t backfill me in the months that they had.

    5. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      Boss has shown that they don’t care; you don’t need to care about it more than your boss does. As others have suggested, write up a sheet of notes (if it lends itself to that) with current status etc, the rest is up to the boss.

  26. contract negotiations*

    Have you ever walked away from a job offer due to the contract/agreement terms? I’m in limbo because I pushed back on line items in the non-compete that are excessively onerous. Days later, it is unresolved. The humans in this organization have been great, but their employment contracts and policies are hostile. There are reasons this is a good opportunity and an expedient means to an end, and I’m still hoping for a positive resolution. It would feel a little silly to walk due to what’s likely an unenforceable document. But it’s not wild to think how they handle policies and negotiations indicates what they will be like to work for.

    1. 867-5309*

      I do not know companies that are willing to change a non-compete unless you are incredibly senior and usually at that point in your career, they become more and not less restrictive.

      1. Cthulhu's Librarian*

        Technically, everything about your employment should be open to negotiation, so it never hurts to ask for changes to these things if you dislike them. But that doesn’t mean your employer has to be willing to negotiate on the topic – if they still have other candidates they’ve been interviewing, their best alternative position to negotiating on the topic you dislike may be “we go with our second choice, who is really just as good.”

        But, if there are particularly onerous restrictions on their non-compete, it’s also very possible that it is not a legally enforceable agreement. Might not be a bad thing to take to a lawyer to get an opinion on.

    2. Elle Woods*

      I did once. This particular company had a non-compete clause that said you couldn’t work in say llama grooming or llama grooming adjacent fields for a period of five years after ending your employment with the company. I pushed back on it because it was so onerous. The company refused to budge at all so I walked. I’ve since learned that I dodged a bullet by not taking the job.

    3. Reba*

      My spouse recently went through this, and ultimately had to fold/not walk away after noting his concerns to HR and sending it to legal who said, “nah [various weasel words].” There were some other shenanigans with the offer terms too. It particularly sucked because everything was presented just a couple days before his start date, i.e. after quitting other job, as if a mere formality! It’s likely unenforceable but like, it’s not good to sign things that you intend not to abide by?

      And yeah, it has absolutely colored how he views the company and his intention to stay.

    4. Glomarization, Esq.*

      Just because it’s ultimately unenforceable doesn’t mean that you won’t have to respond to a lawsuit if they choose to sue you. Even if you win in the end, you’ll be spending time and money and stress fighting the lawsuit. The other side of that coin is that you can’t be sued over the noncompetes that you never signed.

    5. Some shady contracts out there*

      I walked away from a consulting job bc contract said they could fire me at will but I could not leave before the end of the 1 year contract. For any reason. I tried 30 then 60 days notice. They said no. I said, “What if I get in a car accident and can’t work?” They told me don’t be ridiculous that of course that would be ok. I said I needed the contract to reflect such instances. No. I walked away.

  27. Courtney*

    I’m struggling waiting for a new remote work policy that has been “in the works” for over a year. Every time they push back our return to the office (planned for July, then beginning of October, now back to “indefinite”), they push back the new policy too. I want to move across the country, so I’m stuck in limbo. Not just me, either. We don’t even have anything in writing on what the telework policy will be once we return to the office. 1 day per week or 3 days makes a difference in where people can/will live. How long can they leave us hanging without expecting a lot of anger? I’m guessing everyone making these decisions has a mortgage and not a lease, so maybe they don’t realize people need this info now, not later.

    We have a meeting in 2 hours where it’s going to come up and I want to ask a question that communicates my frustration without being rude. “Can you explain why the release of the new policy keeps being pushed back?” is what I’ve got so far, but it doesn’t really express how frustrating and demotivating I’ve found this extended waiting period. Anyone else have any thoughts?

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      My read — they don’t want to write a policy, and they don’t want to have a staff that does work from home. They’re hoping it all goes away and they can go back to what they are comfortable with. I’d wager you a week’s worth of lunches that they haven’t even started writing a policy beyond the most vague outline.

      My sympathies. I’d go ahead and call out the elephant in the room during this meeting. “A lot of us are stuck needing to make decisions about leases while we wait for this policy. If we are not going to be able to do permanent remote work – with occasional short trips to HQ – then we’d like to know now, rather than just waiting and hoping.”

      And asking them why the policy hasn’t been issued yet probably isn’t the right thing to do. The answer they give you won’t really help you make your decision, and they’ll probably interpret it as you trying to embarrass them.

      1. Courtney*

        I fear you’re right. At first, they were very enthusiastic and transparent about expanding remote work. Told us how they were making decisions and what the hurdles were before the new policy could be finalized. It all sounded so likely that at least 3 people from my office moved to the West Coast! Lately though, they’ve been cagey/vague and every update seems to make it less likely that remote work will be a viable option. But they simply cannot hope everyone will forget, because at least those 3 people absolutely need to know the new policy before any return to the office happens.

    2. Lucille B.*

      I would say/ask something along the lines of “Is there an updated ETA of the new policy being released? I have put a few life decisions on hold waiting to make sure my plans line up with the company’s and that is getting difficult for me to do month after month.”

    3. Girasol*

      This is a risky move. My old boss got permission to work remotely. She did very well at it. She moved to a new place because why not? Then there was a shift in senior management and someone way up the chain made a new policy that no one would be allowed to work remotely. Anyone currently working remotely had a month to start coming daily to the nearest office. My boss’s new house wasn’t anywhere near an office. Her “choice” not to show up was taken as a resignation, so she lost her job with no unemployment and no severance. Bear in mind that if you do get the go-ahead for remote work and you moved across the country, you could lose your job if remote work permission was then rescinded.

    4. Skeeder Jones*

      Oh my god, I am living this too!!!!! It’s making me crazy. I have been waiting since last April. Current policy allows for me to move to another state where we have offices and I already telecommute (since November 2017) but because they are creating a new and so they won’t approve me. I’ve got most of my belongings in storage, my lease ended last June so I’m paying more since it’s month to month now and they don’t seem to be in a hurry to finish this policy since the temporary remote work policy keeps getting extended. And it doesn’t even apply to me since I was already remote. It’s got my whole life on hold and it is emotionally draining. The logic behind this is baffling. They’ve already said they are expanding the number of positions that are fully remote and I was already fully remote so why the hell are they unable to authorize a move? I’ll still be close enough to an office if I needed to go in and my team are located throughout this state and a few in another state so it’s not like I need to be near a specific office. So I totally feel you! This is 100% descriptive of my situation too, I wonder if we work for the same company.

  28. TheAccountant*

    What’s a ‘normal’ amount of sick/vacation days to have for entry level positions? My current job gives 5 sick and 5 vacation days for the first year (but since I started in July I only have 2 1/2 of each..) which I feel like is ridiculous but also I don’t have anything to compare it to.

    1. Lizzie*

      I think it really depends on where you work, the size of the company, etc. Every company is different in terms of how much time they give for vacation and sick time.
      My company is medium sized, maybe 120 employees. New employees, up to to director level, I believe get two weeks PTO, plus 7 floaters and personal days and 40 hours sick time annualy, the last two everyone gets regardless of your level. 5 yaers = 3 weeks vacation, 10 = 4, 20 = 5, and that’s it. And depending on when you start, its pro-rated.

      My last job was with a medium size law firm. I got 3 weeks vacation off the top, and I don’t recall the rest, although we got every federal holiday; if the courts were closed, so were we.

      another job, was with a big pharma co. I believe there too, i started with 3 weeks. But I’ve also had friends who started with much smaller companies, and got ONE week of vacation and no personal days, and sick time was as you needed it, but not really.

    2. T. Boone Pickens*

      The 5 sick days at least to me, seems pretty standard. The 5 days of vacation feels a bit light, 10 days would be much better.

      Your pro-rated amount of time off at least to me makes sense if your organization gives you all of your time off in one ‘block’ on January 1st. Since you joined the team halfway through the year, getting 50% of the time off seems spot on.

      I don’t think your position being entry level should really have any factor on your time off, some organizations are more generous with time off than others. What does paid holiday/retirement plan + match/benefit plan cost look like?

      I have a couple clients that are stingier on time off (their plans are similar to yours) but pay for 90%+ of their employee health insurance premiums which is a terrific perk. As with most things, it just depends on what is most important to you. Plus, your salary is also a huge part of the equation.

      1. TheAccountant*

        Gotcha, thanks! It does make me feel better that the pro-rated thing is common. I took this job because it was a job but I don’t really know what to look for in the future so this is really helpful.

        1. Cold Fish*

          My experience, the pro-rated thing is not common. More common would be no sick or vacation leave until your anniversary in July.

    3. Red*

      In my experienced position where I’ve been with my company 2 years, I get 3 days of sick front loaded on my anniversary date and can accrue up to 5 days a year until I hit 5 years where I start to accrue 14 days.

      The prorating thing is super common by the way. So I wouldn’t feel too put out by that.

    4. ThatGirl*

      5 sick days seems pretty standard, but only 5 vacation days is ridiculous. Even at my very first job out of college, which paid peanuts, I got 10 PTO days. At my first non-newspaper job I got 18 PTO days – and that was standard for new hires.

      1. Coenobita*

        Same, I think my first office job had 5 sick days and 10 vacation days, plus paid federal holidays. You could also get 5 additional sick days, but you needed some sort of approval. The approval part was a little weird (who knows how equitably those approvals were granted…!) but at least there was a recognition that sometimes you have a bad year and need extra sick days.

    5. 867-5309*

      I thought – for salaried, hq kind of roles, anyway – it was 15 days of PTO to be used how you wanted as an average.

      I am in the fortunate position and level that I do not need to accept a job with at least four weeks of vacation with sick time usually either unlimited or two weeks.

      You are correct that 5 and 5 is absurd. Two vacations time is definitely standard.

    6. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

      To me that sounds a bit low but unfortunately not that far from the norm. In my first job I was given 15 days combined PTO, which sounded good until I learned it included sick, vacation, and PAID HOLIDAYS. The office was closed 8 days a year, and if I wanted to get paid I had to use a PTO day. That left 7 whopping days a year for sick AND vacation.

      My next job offered more time, but it accrued monthly and you only got access to it in July (beginning of the fiscal year). So I started in September and didn’t have access to any paid time for 10 months, at which point I got the days I accrued over those 10 months but not a full years’ worth.

      So, there are lots of ways employers can be jerks about accessing time off!

    7. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      Our PTO bucket (which includes undifferentiated sick and vacation time, plus six official holidays) varies based on hourly vs salaried and how long you’ve been with the org, but the smallest PTO bucket for a first-year hourly employee is 23 days per year, accrued on two-week pay periods. (The holidays are included in the PTO bucket because we’re a 35,000 employee medical system and have some departments that run on banker’s hours and nominally close for the holidays and some departments that are 24-365 come hell or high water and everything in between, so people can choose in most areas to work the official holiday and save their 8 hours of PTO for a different holiday or treat it like regular PTO.)

    8. Teapot Repair Technician*

      In my experience (in the US) that’s bottom-of-the-barrel, but not unheard of. I would not accept a job there unless I could negotiate at least 10 vacation days.

    9. Generic Name*

      My last job had 10 days of PTO (combined sick and vacation). I think it’s super stingy. My current job had 2 weeks of vacation, plus sick time for years 1-5, 5-10 you get 3 weeks vacation, and 10+ is 4 weeks vacation. I think anything less than 2 weeks vacation to start is stingy as hell.

      1. Elizabeth West*

        I’ve had office jobs where you had to wait a whole year to get any at all, but it was usually 10 days once it came around. You also got paid holidays the first year and if you were really sick, you stayed home but you didn’t get paid.

        A decent job will offer 10 days after the 30 or 90-day probation period. A really good one gives you full benefits upon hire and accrued PTO or a bigger bucket with rollover. (I’m hoping for one of these last two.)

        I would just catch five cases of “flu” because that’s ridiculous.

    10. Zephy*

      It really depends. For a point of comparison, my job has one PTO bucket (no separate sick/vacation/etc), new hires get 10 days/80 hours PTO right from the jump, +5 days/40 hours after 2 years, +5 more days/40 more hours after 4 years, maximum 20 days/160 hours. Unused PTO used to expire on your hire anniversary each year; now it rolls over into an FMLA bank on your hire date, whereupon you get your allotment of PTO for the year based on your seniority. So for example, this year on my hire date I still had 4 days PTO that I hadn’t used. That rolled over into the FMLA bank, so if I need to take FMLA leave, I can get paid for some of that time at my full rate, rather than taking short-term disability and getting a fraction of my normal pay. It’s better than just losing that money (like, we didn’t even have the option to get it paid out before, and even now they’ll only pay out 40 hours upon leaving the company even if you have more available), but I’m pretty sure the company made the change to discourage us from using PTO even more than they already do. We already need authorization from God, Jesus, and all of His angels to use more than one week/40 hours of PTO at a time – like, I’m pretty sure that’s something I can only get approved once, if ever, and I’m going to spend that capital on the honeymoon I still haven’t been able to take since getting married last year (thanks, COVID)…once international travel is a sensible, sane thing to do again. I got an 8-day vacation approved in 2019 by doing it Wednesday-to-Wednesday and agreeing to work the Saturday after I got back, so three of the eight days weren’t working days and thus didn’t have to be charged to PTO, and that took a lot of finagling and three separate managers to sign off on it.

    11. Policy Wonk*

      In the federal government it’s an earn as you go system. At any level a new employee will earn 4 hours of annual, 4 hours of sick leave per two-week pay period. As you gain seniority you will accrue more annual leave (6 then 8 hours), but sick leave stays at 4 hours. You can accrue a certain amount before some of it becomes “use-or-lose.”

      If you need leave and don’t have any in the bank there are systems to advance you leave up to the amount you will earn that year.

      1. Joielle*

        State government here but very similar. I accrue 4 hrs of sick and 5 hrs of vacation time every pay period. Vacation accrual increases with seniority. We have 26 pay periods per year, so (just did the math) I get 13 sick days and just over 16 vacation days per year (plus 10 paid holidays). Sick days have unlimited accrual and I think vacation we can accrue up to 275 hours?

        The pay isn’t amazing, but it’s worth it because of the benefits (like, my family insurance plan has a $300 deductible. Wild). I’m such an evangelist for government employment for this exact reason.

    12. fueled by coffee*

      My first post-college job was in a school-based non-profit. I had a bucket of ten personal days (sick and vacation were lumped together), in addition to all school vacations (federal holidays, winter/spring break, etc.).

      So I would say that 10 days is not necessarily unprecedented, but do you also get, for example, a week off between Christmas and New Years that’s not counted towards those days? Or is it really just 10 days total?

    13. Maggie*

      My previous company we got 10 combined and no paid holidays. My current company we get 15 combined (one bucket sick and vacation) plus 5 paid holidays. I’ve heard of places giving more or less. I would call it adequate though I’d like a couple more days off, who wouldn’t ha! Oh we also offer bereavement time, so when my grandpa died, I took 3 paid days off to attend his funeral that did not count against my 15 combined. However my aunt also died this year and she didn’t ‘qualify’ for this policy so I used reg PTO.

    14. LC*

      For my entry level job, I accrued PTO and sick time per hour I worked, and it was added to my balance with each paycheck. My hours were pretty steady, so it was roughly the same each paycheck, but could definitely vary.

      Sick time – almost 9 days a year (1 hour of sick time per 30 hours worked)
      This was due to a city ordinance though, I know that for people who worked in a location that didn’t have a Sick & Safe type ordinance, it was less. This was consistent for all hourly employees, regardless of tenure (changed to essentially unlimited sick time if you moved to a salaried position).

      PTO – about 13 days a year (1 hour accrued per 20 hours worked)
      This went up a teeny bit every year, usually worked out to an increase of about a day to a day and a half each year. This was how it worked for everyone, hourly or salaried.

      For reference, this was a large retailer with locations across the country and multiple tens of thousands of employees. I wasn’t in a store, but it was pretty much the same system for all hourly employees.

    15. anonymous73*

      Most of my more recent jobs have combined PTO, but when they used to split vacation and sick time, I never started with less than 2 weeks of vacation.

    16. BB2*

      I work for a local government:
      First year I got zero vacation days but I was able to accrue one sick day every month.
      After a year I got 6 vacation days, 3 personal days and 9 sick days
      after 2 years I got 10 vacation days, 3 personal days and 9 sick days

    17. Purple Cat*

      My company, everyone gets 40 hours sick time, and entry level would get 2 weeks, increasing up to 5 weeks with seniority.
      We accrue hours monthly, but if you needed to take extra time (sick OR vacation) you can borrow up to 40 hours of each, signing a form that you promise to immediately pay it back if you leave before you’ve re-accrued the balance.
      We also get 2 Floating Holidays, unless you start halfway through the year, then you only get one.

    19. Bayta Darrell*

      My last job had a combined 10 days PTO (vacation and sick time), and the option to take time unpaid and make it up on other days. There were 7 paid holidays and sometimes we’d get a few extras at Christmas time. There was no increase ever, unless you negotiated for it with a promotion or something, and even then I only knew one person who had done that and he got 15 total days.
      I left that job and now I get 25 days PTO (again, all one bucket) and 10 holidays.

    20. Chauncy Gardener*

      I think two weeks of vacation is way more standard, although I personally think it’s too little. I always try to give folks more because we’re all human.

  29. Lizy*

    Anyone know of good remote or work-from-home gigs? FT or PT, at this point… I’d prefer NOT a bunch of phone-time, mainly because I’m hard-of-hearing and the phone just makes it worse.

    I’ve reached the point where “my organization’s organization and communication sucks and is not going to change”, and at this point, I’m just over it.

    1. anonymous73*

      I’ve tried to find WFH gigs many times in the past, and unfortunately the only ones that exist (as far as I could find) were customer service rep positions, and I have no desire to spend all day on the phone talking to angry people. If others exist, they must be in some magic portal with a pass code because I’ve never been able to find one.

      1. Redaktorin*

        I am an editor. There are many, many WFH positions for writers and editors. The hitch is that few are entry level, and virtually all require a portfolio to apply.

  30. overcaffeinatedandqueer*

    Dear AAM,
    This morning, I sat on my coworker! I had gotten up to use the bathroom, and he stole my chair while I was gone. He reacted by yelling and attacking me in a delicate area.

    Who is at fault? Are both of our injuries eligible for worker’s comp? Does this matter come into sexual harassment territory? Do I steal his toy mice in retaliation?

    1. LadyByTheLake*

      I have a similar coworker who frequently settles in when I get up. Oh, how he yowls when I sit on him. Pouting, hurt looks. A gift of catnip sometimes soothes.

    2. Dark Macadamia*

      That’s your coworker’s chair that he sometimes graciously allows you to use. Apologize with treats immediately!

    6. mlem*

      It sounds like your coworker has been relying on an informal accommodation for his conditions of “being smol” and “owning all furniture in the office by natural right”. Provide treats as your apology and then enter accommodation negotiations to prevent future occurrences.

    7. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      I feel you; I regularly have to grab my seat-stealing coworker’s backside and shift her whole back half over to the right so I can have the part of the chair I need because she likes to take her half out of the middle.

    8. NotMy(Fancy)RealName*

      Rule 1 in our house: Don’t sit on the cat. Rule 1 dates back to when eldest cat was the office cat.

    9. Teapot Repair Technician*

      I know we’re supposed to take LWs at their word, but I suspect we’re dealing with an unreliable narrator here. LW’s “coworker” is clearly actually their boss.

    10. Ali G*

      Yesterday my coworker fell asleep behind my chair and then freaked out on me when I got up and it slid into him!

      1. Purple Cat*

        OMG, I needed to read the replies before it really sunk in.
        No, the toy mice wasn’t a big enough clue, and I HAVE cats! :)

        OP, your coworkers is the boss, the sooner you can accept that, the better.

    14. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      My coworker keeps trying to steal the spotlight in video calls. Any time I start to say something he talks over me, his input isn’t useful (though typically not the worst contribution I’ve heard that day in a meeting…), he leaves crumbs all over my desk, doesn’t seem to respect when I am focusing and have headphones on. I’m also having problems with my cat when I work from home :-)

  31. Escaped a Work Cult*

    Should I hold out on changing jobs until end of year? We’re adding profit share end of year bonuses but mine would be somewhere between 1500-2000 because it’s five percent of annual gross net salary. It feels like a pittance but crap, it’s the most money my boss has offered for bonuses.

    1. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      Start the job search now. It may take awhile. Then once you have an offer, you can decide whether it covers the bonus amount, or whether you want to try to negotiate a Jan 2 start date. (Or start at the new job while you’re spending out vacation days from the old one.)

    2. should i apply?*

      For me it would be based on 1) how much I want a new job 2) what the pay & bonus if offered would look at the new job. Higher salary is almost always better than a bonus since it is (mostly) guaranteed.

      1. LC*

        Higher salary is almost always better than a bonus since it is (mostly) guaranteed

        And builds on itself, since raises are so often a percentage of your salary, not including bonuses.

    3. JustMyImagination*

      My last company did bonuses based on how the company did that year. But they waited until the books were pretty solid so you’d get your 2020 bonus in March 2021. And if you left before March, you walked away from the bonus.

      When I left that job and started at my current job, I mentioned that I was walking away from an anticipated bonus of X, and used that to negotiate a signing bonus.

    4. Purple Cat*

      Start your job search now because you don’t know how long it’ll take.
      My company bonuses are ~20% and you have to work until 12/31 to receive them, although they’re not paid out until March. Even then, some people do leave in Q4 but it’s exceedingly rare. Those that leave do so for significant promotions where the new salary/responsibilities were too good to pass up, and/or they negotiated some part of the foregone bonus as a signing bonus with the new company.

    5. Stoppin' by to chat*

      Agreed with the advice to start a job search. While it’s not impossible to start a job in say December, there are often more people out of the office around in the November/December holidays (at least in the US), so you may not even get an offer for a few months. Or you might, and then you can ask if the bonus could be added to your office since you would be leaving before it was paid out. But definitely start the job search.

  32. Ann Perkins*

    I would love some advice or if there’s anything I haven’t thought of with a decision I might need to make between two potential job offers, particularly from other working parents. Spouse is hands-on but his office is inconveniently located so most day to day dropoff/pickup falls on me. I suspect the salary offers will be similar.

    Job A: Traditional 8-5 downtown (near my kids’ daycare and school), some flexibility is fine if needing to arrive late or leave early but probably not as an every day thing. A little bit more of a stretch job with some additional licensing required and lots of responsibility. Potentially better overall career and salary trajectory since I would be in-person, but would also be a good job to potentially have the rest of my career.

    Job B: Fulltime remote with a company out of state but with some travel involved, 6-9 trips per year of 3-4 days each. Very flex time so it’s not a big deal to block off 30 minutes at 3 pm to go pick up kids from school, and it’s likely they could be home during the summers once they’re more tween/teen age and don’t need active childcare. More comparable in skill level to my current job but would be better pay for it. Less room for advancement since I would be remote, but again, might be the last job of my career anyway. We’d actually spend a bit more on commute though to do kid dropoff and pickup. The travel part would stink while my kids are so young though. Spouse does get lots of PTO at least and can flex some as well.

    Also a twist, I’m pregnant and neither company knows. Job A, I think they would react supportively but I’m really not sure, and it would be unpaid leave (though I have short term disability at least). Smaller team so it’s harder to cover. Job B, I’m already familiar with the company and people and it wouldn’t be an issue, and they offer 12 weeks fully paid parental leave with no minimum requirement for how long you’ve been there.

    If I get both offers and the salary is similar, I’m leaning towards B since I think I would save a lot on afterschool care and summer care over the years once my kids are a bit older (currently have 2 kids under 5). It feels kind of lazy though, like I’m going for the easier job because it’s easier… but then I think, why shouldn’t I go for a lot of flexibility and good job for comparable pay?

    1. jane's nemesis*

      I would be leaning towards B. I don’t like the idea of no parental leave and having to rely on short term disability. I would probably be inclined towards remote/flexible over traditional 8-5/inflexible no matter what, though.

    2. T. Boone Pickens*

      Hmmm, an interesting dilemma Ann Perkins. Congrats on the two offers!

      The only thing I didn’t see if what do the respective retirement plans look like? With the 3rd kiddo on the way (I hope it goes smoothly!),

      I’d lean towards Job B. It sounds like you’ll have quite a bit of uncertainty in your personal life with the 3rd kid. While I don’t have kids, my friends that do have mentioned the jump from 2 to 3 kids was much bigger than they anticipated.

      How do both jobs fit in with your long-term career goals? Are you still interested in climbing the ladder or are you in a ‘work to live’ type scenario? Good luck with your decision!

      1. Ann Perkins*

        A has a very good 401k match once you’ve been there a long time. Depending on years of service, it goes from 50% match, to 100% match, then 150%, then 200%. B has a 2/3 match on 401k but also a true pension so it’s harder to evaluate what that pension payout will eventually look like since it’s a points system.

        Both jobs are similar in nature though A is a smaller company so my job would touch more areas. Either way, I’m senior enough that the job could be the last of my career, so I’m not overly concerned about not being able to continue the climb the chain if I go remote.

        1. T. Boone Pickens*

          Hmmm, ok, I follow you. That is a really solid 401(k) match w/ company A. I’d want to know what the vesting schedule looks like and how much they’re willing to match. Another nice to know would be the specifics of the plan and if there was a Roth component. Agreed that with company B, would need some more information on the points systems.

          It might be worth doing some different simulations with job A on the retirement piece. Getting a 200% match is pretty powerful and depending on your savings rate, might allow you to shave off a few years for retirement purposes.

    3. NoThanksRiskyBusiness*

      I don’t think it’s lazy at all to do job B if that’s what you’re leaning towards. I think something that feels comfortable might be a nice change if you’re feeling overwhelmed in your current role, especially with a life change on the way!
      I’m not a mom so I’m not speaking from direct experience, but I think parents deserve as much of a break as they can possibly manage during the pandemic and in general. I think paid leave is a good enough reason to choose one job over the other too.
      For the travel for school runs and the WFH part, maybe practice what the route would look like on a weekend if you can and see what it feels like. I’d also think about if you need to be in person with other adults during the day or if virtual interaction will be enough of a balance between kid time and adult time.
      If your instinct says Job B would be a better fit, trust it.

      1. Analytical Tree Hugger*

        So, so agreeing with the “not lazy” part!

        @Ann Perkins, you’re raising two humans and are literally growing a third inside of you! Lazy does not enter this equation at any point.

    4. Scoffrio*

      I’d also be leaning towards Job B, but I prioritize flexibility and making my home life as un-stressful as possible – so I’d just remind you to think about what would be best for your mental health. Are you and Spouse in a good enough financial position that spending on childcare wouldn’t stress you out? Because if not, then its possible you’d be pretty stressed out about your home life in Job A. Also worth thinking about if you do actually want to take on the extra licensing and stuff to perform Job A, and what the timeline for that would be in relation to your pregnancy – if it sounds exhausting to you now, it’s probably going to be overwhelmingly so when the job starts.

      Are there ways to ask job B about taking on more responsibility that you’re excited about? Or perhaps you could negotiate for a review of your work in a year to talk about added responsibility and/or promotion? This way you can decide in a year whether that’s something you want but Job B will be prepared for you to ask so you won’t be starting from zero?

    5. ferrina*

      Fellow FT working parent here! I’m seeing trade-offs at both jobs. Here’s my thoughts:

      -What are the OT expectations for each job? Not just what they want, but what you want. If you are doing pick-up and drop-off, you won’t be able to come in early or stay late to do work. With remote work, sometimes that comes with more flexible hours, but you need to have childcare (including a very on-board spouse). I had a year where I was working remotely, my spouse would theoretically be caring for the kids so I could work in the evenings, but lo and behold, it was time for me to work and the kids were crying and the spouse was yelling for cooking instructions…. 30 minute tasks then take almost 90 minutes

      -How on-board is your spouse? What are their expectations? Are they excited for the travel time, or are they dreading it? How will they cover the childcare pick-up/drop-off aspect? Seriously, talk this through with your spouse and leave no detail unturned. If it’s going to be tough, it’s better to go in knowing that.

      -Don’t count on the afterschool/summer care to balance things out until the kids are 8-10. 5/6yos are much better than 2/3 yos, but “better” means “they give me 20 minutes to work without interuption instead of 5”. Make sure that the tasks of the job align to what your kids can reasonably give you.

      -Job B has sweet maternity leave (for the U.S.). I’d count that as a point toward Job B, but not a point against Job A.

      -Lastly, it’s not lazy to “go for the easier job” because you are about to have 3 small children!! Nothing is easy with small kids! Listen to yourself and what you want. Good luck!

      2. Ann Perkins*

        Oh, these are great questions! I would say neither has OT expectations, they’re standard 40 hour workweeks. B would give some more flexibility if I did want to flex a bit into the evening because I started late or took off a couple hours in the afternoon, which could be nice once my kids are in after school activities, though in general I wouldn’t want to work into the evenings. I could see myself starting super early in the day though.

        B would be tougher for my spouse because of the travel, and because I would want him to pitch in for dropoff and pickup. But, he also gets a TON of PTO and is laid back, so he’s on board with whatever I do. Another perk though would be if we ever wanted to move for his job, B would make that way easier.

        That’s what I was thinking on the 8-10 year old thing. My kids are 2 and 4 so even in summers I would have childcare. But I could see once they’re 8, 11 and 13, that I wouldn’t want to leave them home alone all summer but also would feel like I wouldn’t want to spend money on a nanny at those ages.

        And thank you for the kind comments (ferrina and everyone); I’ve been working in an environment where I’m the only parent with young kids and while I don’t ask for special expectations, it would be so refreshing to be in an environment where I’m not the odd one out to have different family priorities.

    6. ThatGirl*

      It’s not lazy to prioritize your family when making a career choice. Especially if you think you would enjoy the job itself. But don’t forget about the actual job while making a decision!

    7. Lizy*

      Unfortunately I think this is really one that you have to answer for yourself. I’d personally go for job B, because the flexibility is huge for me, and I (personally) am not terribly worried with climbing the corporate ladder. I’d like being remote, but being around my kids all the time would … be interesting, so the travel would, for me, be a welcome break!

      Going for an “easier” job isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Do what works best for you and your family.

    8. Teapot Repair Technician*

      That’s a tough choice. For me it would be job A for now and maybe look for a job like job B when the kids are in middle school.

      The childcare cost savings of B won’t happen until years from now. In the meantime, you’ll be paying just as much and making two roundtrips every day for dropoff/pickup.

      How does your spouse feel about the travel? As much as I love being a parent, I found being the only parent at home with an infant and a toddler for days at a time was a real challenge.

      If I took job B, I would want it to pay well enough to hire a fulltime nanny (who can drive).

      1. Ann Perkins*

        I might be too much of a natural pessimist, but unfortunately it’d be difficult to get another job like Job B later on. My industry is generally very averse to remote work and that company is the only one of comparable companies that offer it, so it wouldn’t be possible to get a job at a competitor, for example, unless things change between now and then. My role is also pretty specialized so not a lot of opportunities come up; I’ve been looking for about a year and this is the first time there have been relevant openings for me.

        Spouse is on board, he’s present with the kids and this would make it easier for him too if we wanted to move for his job (which he has wanted but was held back by my job only typically being in major metros). It’ll be hard on him though for sure. We already outsource our cleaning but could probably bump that up or even also hire a mother’s helper to help him with the dinner/bath/bedtime evening for while I’m gone.

    9. Stoppin' by to chat*

      I don’t think a job that includes several weeks of travel each year is a lazy choice! But I also wouldn’t plan to save money on childcare in the near future. I wouldn’t expect to benefit from kids being able to be home in the summer while also leaving you alone until at least middle school. If it helps, the way you describe Job B in your post comes across like that’s the way you’re leaning.

  33. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

    Any advice for moving forward after accepting a counter-offer?

    All the advice I see out there is how to and why reject one.

    1. Free Meerkats*

      Get everything promised in writing in the form of a legal contract. As we’ve seen time and again here, they promise you a raise and a title and a corner office and then start recruiting for your replacement while you end up in Milton’s “office” in the basement with your red stapler while your new office “is being prepared.”

      The next time you see daylight during the workday is when you’re being walked out.

      1. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

        Getting escorted out could happen anyway; at will and everything. I’m not worried about the counter-offer being honored; it was given to me formally, in writing, on letterhead, and the CEO signed it for me in my presence. My job security has always been in tomorrow’s workload.

        I like my employer, I’m mostly in good esteem, and I really am happy staying.

        At this point, I’m trying to come back from having to look outside the company for more, harder work, and reaffirm that I’m a loyal employee, which I know will take time.

        1. Analytical Tree Hugger*

          I think you already have your answer, that it will take time. Of course, that’s time where you continue to do good work, which shows you are a valuable employee.

          I will say, though, I don’t like the sentiment of having to be “loyal.” I’m guessing that was just a turn of phrase though and not a culture of expecting employees to perform gratitude for their jobs?

          1. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

            I will say, though, I don’t like the sentiment of having to be “loyal.” I’m guessing that was just a turn of phrase though and not a culture of expecting employees to perform gratitude for their jobs?

            It’s not an expectation. They’ve been objectively very good to me over the years. It was really the fact that I’m at least one skill short on paper of being able to secure another gig to support my family should I find myself needing a new job tomorrow that led me to listen, the work to hone that skill was the offer that was countered, and the centerpiece of the counter-offer is the work to hone that skill. The feeling is genuine; it’s not an act.

    2. learnedthehardway*

      Make sure that the counter-offer is in writing, is clear and specific, and has buy-in not just from your immediate manager, but also from your grand-boss.

      You want a clear position description and job duties list spelled out, if your role is going to change.

      Personally, I would not accept a counter-offer unless it included a promotion in title, duties and responsibilities, as well as an increase in compensation. That would indicate to me that the company has some interest in retaining me beyond the time it would take to find a replacement for me.

      1. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

        I got what I wanted in the counter-offer. It was actually more than I wanted and I negotiated it down to where I’m comfortable.

        I’m also lucky in that grand-boss of the team I’m joining is also my current supervisor on the team I’m not leaving. To use the Teapot Analogy, I’ve been a Glazer and I’ve had Glazing mastered for a while. The supervisor for the Painting team reports to the Glazing supervisor; going forward I’m going to continue to Glaze and start Painting as well.

  34. Free Meerkats*

    This is a semi-question for Alison. This week has been a series of posts from the past so you could enjoy some time off. I’m curious if there are one or two that you would answer completely differently now?

    4. ecnaseener*

      In case Alison doesn’t get to this, she did a similar post in 2016 – search “here are things I’ve changed my advice on over time”

        1. Elizabeth West*

          I’m glad the cell phone thing has changed since that’s all I have. And it took me longer than most to ditch my landline, too.

  35. NoThanksRiskyBusiness*

    My boss says in writing that I don’t have to come into the office and can be fully remote if I’m not comfortable with the Covid risk (I’m not, they refuse to wear masks or take any precautions) but since I’ve accepted this option and been working from home he’s been pressuring me into writing out what indicators would make me feel comfortable going back. When I did my best research and put together numbers, he said he doesn’t like them and wants me to reconsider in two weeks. They don’t take the pandemic or personal boundaries seriously. Do folks have any tips for what to say to hold this boundary?

    1. Dark Macadamia*

      I’d be tempted to just submit the same indicators again, with any current data updated, and say these are the circumstances you’re comfortable with based on CDC recommendations. Pandemic precautions aren’t determined by how much he LIKES them!

      1. ferrina*

        A spin on this- you can say that this is what you are comfortable with based on current CDC guidance. New data is being gathered all the time, and when the CDC updates the guidance, you’ll be happy to revisit.

    2. Anonymous Koala*

      Your boss “doesn’t like” the metrics your comfortable with? What…? I’d be job searching, honestly, but in the short term I second resubmitting the same metrics and citing CDC data as justification. You can also turn this on him and ask if he has specific concerns about your not being in the office, and try and come up with strategies to mitigate those concerns or explain why they’re not likely to be issues. Like if he’s worried that your not being in the office means you won’t be able to write the llama grooming report with Jane, you can explain that you and Jane have worked out an effective collaboration using google docs and zoom to collaborate on the report in real time.

  36. tiny_strawberries*

    Question. Some coworkers and I started meeting with others who do a similar job across our company. However, most of us are quite social, and I’m worried one person is feeling left out. How can we help them feel comfortable talking or going to Happy hours with us?

    1. ferrina*

      Be friendly when you see them, and it’s okay if you’re not friends. Invite them (“hey, we’re heading out if you want to join us!”) but they may be happier not going to Happy Hours, and that’s okay.

      1. ecnaseener*

        I would add that if happy hour is planned in advance, let this person know early. Some people (me) want to socialize more in theory, but need to gear up for it. A same-day invite can be very daunting if you’re not in the right mood.

        2. allathian*

          Yeah, me too. I can sometimes make exceptions, but I very rarely attend any after work events unless I get the invitation at least two days before, preferably longer. This was true even when I was single and had only myself to please, at least now I can blame my lack of flexibility on my family, even if they wouldn’t object if I accepted an invite on short notice if they had nothing else planned.

          This applies only to after work stuff, I’m happy to go to lunch with no notice.

    2. Damn it, Hardison!*

      Make them know they are always welcome, but that it’s totally okay if they skip too. They may be worried about repercussions if they don’t go, or that you all will think they are rude, snobby, etc.

    3. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      You could also make an effort to have social-like experiences IN the office to make sure it’s clear that you want to include the not-so-social coworker in your friend bubble. Even if it’s just a few casual moments at the end of the team meeting or whatever, or plan a lunch date with all of you at the table.

      At these moments, you can mention that sometimes you like to get together outside the office, and what would Quieter Friend be into for fun? Maybe happy hour isn’t for them, but going for ice cream is.

    4. Not So NewReader*

      I am not into alcoholic beverages. Perhaps this person would appreciate the group rotating off with a place that offered other things? Or maybe it’s the hour, perhaps they prefer to get home by a certain time. I know when I worked full time, I had to be in bed by a given time, maybe set an end time for your night out?

      1. beach read*

        This. Speaking as someone who has never been comfortable in the bar, I’d say change it up once in a while and sit at a restaurant for a meal instead.

      2. Bayta Darrell*

        As a fellow non-drinker, I agree that it shouldn’t always be happy hours. Go to lunch, go to dinner, grab a coffee, switch it up every now and again.

  37. GoingAnonToday*

    I’m having some issues wrapping my mind around an issue that is pretty visible today (pandemic related).

    I have a co worker who lives and works in Texas. She had Covid last year before she joined my team. Apparently she had it bad then. She lives in a state with a lot of anti current administration sentiments, as well as a lot of anti-masking and anti-vax. Her son came down with Delta last week and now she has it again. She is very very sick, and may be going to be admitted because she has Asthma as well. She did not get the vaccine when it was offered to her because despite having a bad case of covid in 2020, most people in her area still feel like it is a hoax.

    I know that this is an entirely its own subject, but her situation is really impacting me at work. During the busiest time of the year she is now unavailable for an undetermined amount of time. Has anyone else had an issue like this? Directly related to the pandemic only. I’m just so frustrated and am having a problem not judging her and being angry. I don’t think I would have felt this way before the pandemic and may just be pandemic fatigue.

      2. Mental Lentil*

        This is my feeling as well. I mean…the science is there. If they chose to ignore it and they were the only ones impacted by that choice, it would be one thing, but that is not how respiratory viruses work.

    2. Princess Flying Hedgehog*

      So … judge her and be angry. Vent to a trusted friend (not someone at work or who knows this person). Write a letter on paper and burn it. Go for a run, or smash a plate, or find some other safe way to express your anger. If your employer has an EAP, you may be able to get a few therapy sessions for free.
      Your feelings are valid, and it’s ok to judge and feel angry, so long as you are not acting out in an inappropriate way.

      And then make it your bosses problem to solve the issues with your work. Have your boss get involved with prioritizing work or pushing back deadlines or whatever you need to better deal with this issue.

    3. ferrina*

      How much can you send the problem upwards? You are down a person for an extended period of time, so that’s on your boss to manage the workload so you aren’t burning out.

      And yeah, I’d be a little iffy about her judgement after this.

    4. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      I’m so sorry. The anger and frustration are real.

      It may be helpful to keep reminding yourself that she’s ill, and you’d have compassion for anyone who was ill for any reason. Rename her being out sick as anything but the Big Words Of Controversy and Scariness. Maybe just Jane is in the Hospital.

      Then calmly make sure that you are not unnecessarily impacted by her being out. Plot out a judgement-free list of impacts, identify which things you can manage, and which things you’ll need to either postpone or get help with. Go to your manager with the list and see what can be arranged – can someone from another team be borrowed? can a temp help at all? Having a plan for dealing with the busy season will at least mitigate some of the anger stuff.

      Then give yourself permission to go home and vent really hard for a specific amount of time about the STUPIDITY that caused it, possibly with the venting beverage of choice, and then stop because anger doesn’t fix stuff and will just hurt your soul, which doesn’t need that right now.

      We’ll all hope that she and her son get better, and that she’ll make some other choices going forward.

      1. Chantel*

        My hope is that the non-Covid patient from who the willfully obstinate ill friend is stealing a hospital bed is able to get necessary treatment.

    5. Mockingjay*

      Why coworker is in the hospital is not relevant. What is relevant is the effect her absence has on your workload. Make a list of your tasks, her tasks, due dates and other info. Then meet with your Boss and pull out Alison’s trusty script.

      “Boss, if I pick up Tasks A and B for coworker, I won’t be able to complete my own Tasks X, Y, and Z. What should I prioritize?” Ask for help: “Boss, can we borrow someone from the other department. A couple of people have similar experience/duties as Coworker.”

      As frustrating and tiring as the pandemic is (dear heavens, will it EVER end?), the root problem is how to cover an absent coworker’s tasks. Focus on that.

    7. learnedthehardway*

      I’m judging, and I’m not even you! This is kind of along the lines of a non-swimmer having gone out in a boat without a lifejacket, almost drowning, and then doing the same thing the next weekend – terminally stupid.

      I think the Darwin Awards are going to have to come up with a new COVID category – I’m nominating your co-irker.

      1. Gipsy Danger*

        There’s a whole community on Reddit called the Herman Cain awards, and that’s all I’m going to say about that because it’s not nice but is in the vein of the Darwin Awards.

    8. Teapot Repair Technician*

      Be as judge-y as you want, but for some perspective, consider this type of situation isn’t unique to COVID. I would apply the same judginess I would to someone who got injured in a car accident because they weren’t wearing a seat belt, or someone who smoked and got lung cancer.

      1. pancakes*

        Bad analogy. A person who chooses not to wear a seatbelt is only potentially causing injury to themselves, and there isn’t a safe, effective, and free vaccine against car accidents.

        1. Chantel*

          A person choosing to not wear seatbelts can be a projectile through the windshield of another car, and wastes valuable emergency resources.

          Not wearing seatbelts does affect others directly.

          1. pancakes*

            That could happen, sure, but it doesn’t happen often.

            I don’t agree that providing emergency services to injured people is wasted on account of them having caused their own injuries. I wouldn’t want to live in a world where emergency services are provided only to people deemed worthy, and I hope no one else here would either.

      2. Glomarization, Esq.*

        someone who smoked and got lung cancer

        This is incredibly insensitive, and I sincerely hope that you never in your life lose a loved one to a smoking-related disease.

        1. Autism Dad*

          I think that’s the point — when a lifetime smoker gets lung cancer, we don’t go on message boards and rant about their “STUPIDITY,” or that they should be eligible for a Darwin Award, or writing how appropriate it is judge them because “it’s September 2021 and the science is there” (because, duh, the best way to show you’re a good person is to make fun of someone for being sick and act like everyone who disagrees with you is a moron, amirite?)

    9. allathian*

      You can judge her all you want, but even if she’d been out for some other reason, it would have affected your workload just as much. It would be more constructive to talk to your manager about the untenable situation and ask for help in prioritizing your tasks, and maybe get some of them reassigned to someone else.

    10. anonymous73*

      I have zero empathy for the deniers, but it’s not your co-workers fault that the work is falling solely on YOU. That’s on your manager. The reason WHY she’s unavailable to do her job is irrelevant (see: the old got hit by a bus analogy). If someone is out for an extended period of time unexpectedly, it’s up to your manager to have a plan B. And that Plan B shouldn’t be to make someone else do 2 people’s jobs for a month because it’s not sustainable.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        Hard agree. Often times cohorts can be upset with each other and the actual problem is management. But the upset with a cohort allows the angry person to avoid dealing with the real issue. I have seen cohorts actually fighting/arguing with each other because management was asleep at the switch.

        Usually when something gets under my skin and festers, it is because it’s one thing in a long chain of things that have happened at that company. I’d suggest you mull over your history with this place and see if this holds true for you. Your anger might be misdirected and looking at a bigger picture may help you to arrive at a new conclusion.

      2. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

        By the sound of it a month (I know that was just an example) is probably an underestimate. It seems to me that the co-worker is likely to be out much longer than that, and that OP doesn’t see an end in sight to the overwork situation.

        I won’t go into anti-vax etc specifically, but would say that covering for people on an extended basis (with the attendant overwork situation) does hit differently if it’s on account of something perceived as “reasonably avoidable” or “self inflicted” as opposed to truly unanticipated. For example, being swamped with extra work due to the co-worker being injured doing mountain climbing compared to in a car accident.

    11. PollyQ*

      How much of your emotion is about the workload, and how much is about the fact that there’s a decent chance this is going to kill her? You have a right to feel angry and frustrated about both, but it would probably be helpful for you to dig into your feelings a little bit before you tackle the problem of how you can get your workload balanced while she’s out.

    12. RagingADHD*

      If she broke her leg, or got cancer, who would you be angry at? If she had a 10 year old kid who wasnt’ eligible and got Covid, who would you be angry at?

      Yes, antivax disinformation is infuriating. People with high-risk medical conditions deliberately putting themselves at dire risk is horrifying and disturbing. Pandemic fatigue is real.

      But the workload issue is completely separate and that part is not, in fact, your coworker’s fault. That’s management’s fault. Why haven’t they hired more coverage for the busiest part of the year, when they know there is a huge surge going on, and even fully vaccinated people may get sick, or have small children who might get very sick?

    13. Lorine*

      So, compassion fatigue is real, but you have to remember that it’s compassion fatigue. At the end of the day, this is a human with other people who love them that is in a bad way.

      I would focus on working with your manager to make your workload more reasonable.

    14. Vesuvius*

      I’d be very upset in your shoes. You are now overworking because your coworker refused to get vaccinated. That’s very bad! Antimasking and anti-vax sentiment is just…yikes. I’m lucky I’m in an area where that’s not an issue, but even where it has been I am conveniently deaf. (I’ve had to deal with contractors who wanted to moan at me about how this is Murica and you don’t have to wear one bc freedom, when county mandates required it. I’ve never seen grown men turn into toddlers so quickly!)

      A few people in my family are immunocompromised and will probably Actually Die from COVID so I am…very judgey, because all I can think of is the personal effects of that choice. I’m with you — judge away, it’s September of 2021. The science is there.

      Are you able to ask for some help while your coworker recovers? If this has doubled your workload, definitely bring it to your supervisor’s attention. You sound really frustrated by this and, while that is valid, please don’t burn yourself out to cover for your coworker!

      1. Vesuvius*

        To add on to my previous response, as I hit enter too early: I’ve actually had the very conservative antivaxxers ALL up in my business. This has wrecked my ability to sympathize with them. (I have nearly been punched out by a man I was in charge of over him refusing to wear a mask. Yes, really, and yes, this happened several times.)

        That does not mean be rude/cruel/nasty to her during her time off or even when she returns. You can judge her all you like OUTSIDE work, and that doesn’t mean that her family isn’t frustrated and upset and sad about possibly losing a loved one. It is really sad, and it is always hard having someone in the hospital. Don’t make this about her work judgment, though, if you can. If this is the latest in a string of poor judgment calls, that’s not the same thing as “coworker made a very costly mistake.” She’s going to be paying those hospital bills for the rest of her life if she survives this.

    15. bunniferous*

      You asked for help with the anger-so look at it this way-she might have felt that having Covid previously would have protected her from an additional infection. I haven’t heard locally of someone getting it again after having it the first time-so this news shocks me a bit- but a local news figure was hospitalized over a week with Covid and he had been previously fully vaccinated. Probably if your coworker had been vaccinated she would be ok now but we don’t really know for certain. In any case %#&$ Covid and the horse it rode in on….

      1. linger*

        Thinking “I’ve had it so I’m immune” comes from the same wilful ignorance that characterises anti-mask, anti-vax, Covid-denying freedumb fighters.
        Antibody protection wanes over time.
        Proven cases of second Covid infections (not relapses, because different genetic variants were known to be responsible) were already being reported a year ago, within as little as 3 months from the patients’ initial infection.
        It turns out, very similarly, that vaccination only offers about 6 months of protection on average (less for more susceptible individuals) before a booster shot will be needed.

      2. pancakes*

        People who are making decisions about covid based on what they “have felt,” or on what they’ve heard anecdotally, are very bad at decision-making. They might nonetheless be lucky, but choosing to make healthcare-related decisions based on feelings or anecdotes rather than guidance from professionals is indefensibly silly. Someone who feels that having had covid in the past offers just as much protection as getting vaccinated, for example, is simply uninformed, or misinformed.

    16. Autism Dad*

      We have a person who is “very, very sick,” to the point where she has to miss work amd might be admitted to the hospital.

      The OP (and others) show no compassion whatsoever for this person’s well-being — and what’s more, they insist they are justified in having no compassion for this person, entirely because she may have different feelings about the vaccine than others (we don’t actually know that she does, just that she didn’t get the vaccine). For all we (aside from the OP) know, she could be a Black person who grew up hearing about the Tuskegee Experiment and is scared of vaccines because of it.

      There are people who have entirely preventable health problems because they are obese, or because they play a lot of sports and had to miss time from work for surgery. Or they have mental health issues caused by stress because they over-focused on work instead of taking care of themselves.

      I understand why people in this thread are upset about others not taking the vaccine. I can’t understand why the OP and others have lost any sense of compassion for those who are sick. It’s pretty sad to read.

  38. GarlicMicrowaver*

    Who else is having a bad day?

    1. My daughter is battling bronchitis and an ear infection.
    2. I spilled her amoxicillin all over the counter top.
    3. My colleague (of 6 years, who was formerly my boss up until 2 years ago) quit.
    4. I injured my knee at barre class and now I’m limping.

    2. Anon for this*

      Horrible, frustrating two days. I feel you.
      1 Hired someone to work on yard Wednesday. Numerous texts and FB messages later, I was told it would be done Thursday AM. I ask where he is at noon Thursday, he texts back he is busy and to be patient. Partner shows up at 3:30, leaves job half done at 5:30, states he’ll be back in the AM. Hasn’t shown up yet.
      2. 1 1/2 day fight with UPS and Amazon on a package
      3. Need to run ad in local newspaper. Contacted a week ago with info and they will design it. I need a proof. Still hasn’t started.
      4. Spouse crabby all day.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      Tonight might be a good night to head to bed early. Get some extra rest and maybe tomorrow will be better even if it’s only in small ways.

  39. Dino*

    Software People: Can anyone explain what “deploy” means in your context? I’m an interpreter/translator and I’ve tried to grok it myself through research but I don’t understand the nuances. Anyone down to explain it to me like I’m a college freshman?

    1. Toodie*

      Our software isn’t given to customers on CDs or diskettes like in the old days. Instead, the software lives up in the “cloud,” and our customers access it there. Deploying our software means putting a new version of our software up in the cloud.

      1. Dino*

        Toodie, thank you so much! I was getting more abstracted definitions/explanations when researching but this makes so much more sense! I appreciate you helping me out.

    2. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      These days, for most kinds of software, “deploy” and “release” are pretty synonymous. Deploy is the verb, deployment is the noun; release can be either a verb or noun.

      “We are going to deploy version 2.4 of the product to our North American customers on Monday, and to the rest of the world on Wednesday.” Or “The developers are going to deploy the new version to the test server next week.”

      You might even say this informally as “We are going to push version 2.4 …” or “Push the new version to the test server…”

    3. Brownie*

      “Deploy” means putting any change to coding, user interfaces, any aspect of a piece of software, website, or application into a place where it currently isn’t. It could also be called “release” or “update” depending on what common terminology or context the specific person is used to using. “Deploy” can also apply to IT hardware or people as well, which is something to watch out for when trying to figure out which word to use in a given situation. The simplest translation I can come up with is “to move.”

      Examples:
      -Someone makes a code change in development, then “deploys” it to beta by copy/pasting the changed code into beta’s file.
      -A new website is “deployed” to production by moving all configuration and coding files to the production web server.
      -A software update for Windows is “deployed” by the Windows Update program.
      -A new computer is “deployed” to an employee by the helpdesk removing the old one and plugging the new one in.
      -An IT person is “deployed” to another physical location because the other location had too many people out sick and needed more people to help out with “deploying” computers to their employees.

      1. Dino*

        Yessss, that’s fantastic! Thank you, Brownie! Because of confidentiality I can’t elaborate on the context, but I appreciate this thorough and broad breakdown. I owe you one!

    4. Daughter of Ada and Grace*

      Some off the top of my head definitions:

      Code – what a software person writes. (There are various nuances that don’t really affect the rest of this answer)
      Environment – the place where the code “lives”, or “runs”. In web development (what I do), this is a web server
      Server – a computer that runs code. Web servers, which run code that give you web pages, are extremely common. If you get to the thing in a web browser (Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer, Edge, Safari, various others), there’s a web server involved somewhere.
      Deploy – putting a specific version of code on/in a specific environment so it can run there. There are a couple of different ways to do this, but the end result is before the code is deployed, you have version 1.0 running in that environment, and after the code is deployed you have version 1.1 running in that environment. (Numbers picked at random, but they will generally increment.)
      Rollback – putting a previous version of code on a specific environment. If version 1.1 doesn’t work, deploying version 1.0 is called a rollback.

      In my case, we have four environments. “Local” is the computer at my desk. I write the code here, and I can run it here. Since the code is starting here, I don’t have to deploy anything. Next environment up is “Dev”. This is an actual web server that we use so the developers can verify that the code works the same way on a web server as it does on our individual machines. We deploy multiple times a day to this environment. After Dev, we have “Test” – same concept, except we only deploy to it twice a week. QA does their testing in this environment, so it’s helpful to them if it doesn’t change as often. Final environment is “Production”. This is the web server our customers access. By the time code is deployed to Production, we expect the code to have been fully tested and any problems fixed. We deploy anywhere from 2x a week to once every 2 weeks.

      Clear as mud?

      1. Dino*

        I’m seriously going to print this out and keep it at my desk/make a flowchart based on this for me to understand the process. Thank you Ada and Grace’s Daughter!

    5. TechWriter*

      In my world (telecom) it’s the last step before the software/component can be used in an online/networked system.

      Usually you download, install, and configure a thing, then you deploy it to various servers, saying “put this software package on this server”, and it goes into live use. Often you’ve got an existing system or network set up, and a new component/feature/customization to add. So you do the configuration work offline or in test mode, then when it’s ready to use, you deploy it to the existing network.

      1. Dino*

        Thank you TechWriter for explaining! I wasn’t sure if deploying meant pushing it out to users or simply making it available on the server so this helped a lot. Thank you!

        1. TechWriter*

          Ha, well I might not have helped! I think it could really mean either one, depending on the context. Like Daughter of Ada and Grace said, you can deploy to an internal-only server or a customer-accessible one.

  40. a tester, not a developer*

    Any suggestions for interview questions to see if a candidate is a ‘big picture/two-step’ thinker? My team is posting for a role where you’re expected to think about the impact of something like a process change to our immediate team AND a much larger group. Let’s say I’m in cat herding, but if we’re changing the dates of the cat stampede you need to consider if that’s going to mess up the dog rodeo and the lama races.

    We’ve got a couple of candidates that I’ve worked with on things in the past, but I’ve never seen them show that kind of … initiative? Creative thinking? I don’t want them to be ruled out just because of the work I’ve seen them do, but I don’t want the team to be stuck with someone who can’t think outside their own role.

    Thanks!

    1. T. Boone Pickens*

      You could ask them to tell you about a time where they were responsible for building something up from scratch maybe? Or, if they’ve ever led a project rollout that had a long timeframe and how they kept things moving.

      One of the positions I recruit for are enterprise software sales reps, how I dig out their problem solving skills is to ask them to describe a project where it took 12+ months to close the sale and how they navigated the process.

      1. a tester, not a developer*

        That’s a great idea! Our average project is about 18 months, so that would be a good thing to ask about.

    2. cubone*

      I’ve never heard the term two-step thinking, but could you ask some behavioral questions? Like:

      “tell me about a time when you had to think strategically about possible impacts of a change..”
      “tell me about a time you had to evaluate the risk vs reward of a proposed change..”
      “tell me about a time you had to evaluate the impacts of a change on a variety of stakeholders..”

      I would look in their answers for evidence of awareness of both positive and negative impacts, and what they based their decision on, how they mitigated or communicated any negative impacts, etc.

      Alternatively, this is one of the few areas I might think an “in interview” test could be appropriate. Like give them a SWOT analysis of a proposed change and ask them to choose how to proceed and communicate why. I would be paying more attention to how they “show their work” than if they made the “correct” choice.

      1. ferrina*

        Agree, combination of behavioral questions and in-interview tests is a good way to suss this out.

        I’d also add:
        “Tell me about a time when you had to change your approach or revisit the approach you thought you were going to take because you needed to get a certain outcome.”
        Or after they give a different examples, say “We have a similar situation except [DIFFERENCE]. Do you think that approach would work for us, or would you recommend something different?”

        Listen carefully throughout the interview and probe in to their thought process. You want someone that asks questions, talks through ramifications, and is interested in problem solving. You do not want someone that seems to be parroting your words or looking to you for approval for what they said, or changing their answer just to make you happy (as opposed to changing their answer based on the scenario details, which is a good thing).

      2. a tester, not a developer*

        Thank you vey much! I’m terrible with coming up with behavioral questions, so these are a great starting point.

        1. cubone*

          This is more a general rule for behavioral questions, but I think in this situation, definitely look/push for SPECIFICS. Like if they just say “we had a project that impacted everyone but we worked it out and communicated in advance” that wouldn’t give me the kind of specific understanding I think you’re looking for. Personally, I’d (ideally) want to hear some awareness of having made the wrong decision, why, and how that changed their process, or making a decision but having to deal with conflict or challenges around it and how they managed.

          1. Llama Wrangler*

            Yes – I agree – really look for specifics – if they’re not giving you what you want – either in focus or level of detail, ask probing questions. Sometimes people will be off-base in an initial answer, but when you follow up will really hit the points you’re looking for; sometimes an initial answer will sound good and when you probe you’ll realize the approach is very different than what you want.

    3. JustMyImagination*

      If they have experience with project management: “Tell me about a project you completed but that had unintended consequences. Looking back, what would you have changed to make sure that didn’t happen?”

      1. a tester, not a developer*

        Nice! Our company has a really bad habit of passing blame around. If their response is “It wasn’t my job to figure that out”, then we know they won’t be a good fit.

    4. Nynaeve*

      I am interested in this topic, but from the opposite side.

      I feel like this is one of my absolute strengths, and a perspective I could bring to a team. Caveat being: a team that wants it. I often feel like working through this sort of big picture thinking is looped upon as just wasting everyone’s time and it’s quite frustrating. Especially when, time after time, you end up being correct about the impact on thing 3 steps and 2 departments removed from the original scope of the thing and no one even remembers that you brought it up 6 months ago when we first talked about this.

      Any tips for finding positions where this sort of perspective would be welcomed, and how to emphasize it in interviews, would be awesome.

      1. Ginger Baker*

        How about something like “one thing I pride myself on is my ability to think ahead and consider the potential impact of a change across other departments outside of my own. For example, I once worked on [your example here]”

      2. Bayta Darrell*

        Maybe try looking for positions with Coordinator in them? Then check the posting for things like “coordinates with several teams to accomplish X.” In interviews, you can give a specific instance of a time you caught that kind of thing in advance or looped in someone no one else thought to include. If you managed to get a process changed that encourages collaboration/looping others in, definitely highlight that.

  41. CSR MGR*

    Very low stakes question here…I manage a small group of customer service reps and every so often, I will see an e-mail that says “your welcome” vs. “you’re welcome.” What are your thoughts on correcting it when I see it? To date, I have not pointed it out because I don’t want to be nitpicky, but on the other hand, I feel it might reflect badly on them and/or the company. If I were to point it out, what’s a good way to do it without sounding like a scolding school marm? Thanks!

    1. cubone*

      I’m usually not a fan of correcting people’s grammar, but it sounds like this is a role where communication and proper grammar matter. If it really is just that particular phrase (“your welcome”), you could give a 1:1 FYI. I also wonder though if you have a style or communications guide, or any type of training documentation where you could go over proper grammar and give some examples of common mistakes.

    2. Blue Eagle*

      On this one I would just leave it alone. Technically “you’re welcome” is correct (i.e. you are welcome) but I have seen “your welcome” in writing so often that it seems that both are accepted.

      1. ThatGirl*

        Sorry, no, your welcome is never going to be correct, no matter how many times you see it. I cannot accept that, and I think if you see it constantly in a managerial role it’s worth mentioning.

        (The only exception is a sentence like “you’re overstaying your welcome”.)

        1. Charlotte Lucas*

          Agreed. And when I worked in CS, all written communication was reviewed by QA before it went out the door. If you see it a lot (and other typos), maybe require some basic grammar training?

          But be glad it’s not “ur welcome.”

          1. LC*

            Oof, all written communication? That sounds … exhausting.

            When I was in CS, we probably each did something like 50 emails a day, and iirc QA would pull 6? I think? random ones per month to score. The ratio of CS to QA would have had to have been nuts to have to approve each one ahead of time.

            If I (as a team supervisor, not as QA) had someone that I thought might be struggling a bit, or if they were just new, I’d keep an eye on them more myself, either just a quick scan for big issues or pulling a few to go over more fully. Sometimes I’d go through everyone’s just to get a feel for common themes of why customers were contacting us, or if there was a particular issue, I’d go in and look for emails related to that.

            @CSR MGR Personally, I’d probably say something if I’d seen it from one person more than once. I wouldn’t make a big deal out of it, just a quick “oh hey, I noticed this a couple of times, make sure you’re using the right one” and then drop it.

            I second the other comments about style guides and training too. It’s sooooo much better to have your people sound like actual individual people, rather than the same copy/paste job for everything, but you gotta make sure they’re set up for success.

            1. Charlotte Lucas*

              These were letters. No emails went out, because it was a federal contract, & we had to send on official letterhead, etc. But you could send quite a few letters on a busy day. (We did both phones & written inquiries.)

              A lot of it was from letters, but you had to make changes. And once you proved yourself, you only got random audits of about 25% of your work.

          1. WellRed*

            Sorry, poorly worded in response to a comment above saying both are accepted. One is accepted, the other is wrong.

    3. 867-5309*

      If it’s a one-off, let it go.

      If it’s a repeat pattern, mention it like it is an unintentional mistake during a touch base. “I wanted to mention, the last few emails that have gone out said “your welcome” instead of “you’re welcome.” It happens to all of us and just wanted to mention it since I’m sure you didn’t even realize it!” Then, move on to another topic so it doesn’t become a big deal…

    4. Princess Flying Hedgehog*

      Unless it’s the same person every time, I’d let it go. Even the best of us makes the occasional typo.

    5. Meghan*

      If it seems to be just a one off mistake happening randomly, I’d let it go. Everyone has off days. If it appears to be the same person from time to time, I’d bring it up in a one on one.

    6. SPAG*

      Is that the only error you see in their emails? I understand not sending group emails for individual issues, but if there are other SPAG issues, you could mention it in a team meeting. “Hey, let’s talk about the importance of correct spelling and grammar in our emails to the customers. Of course typos happen, but making sure we use “you’re welcome” instead of “your welcome” and taking a moment to re-read our emails before sending to make sure everything makes sense is important.”

    7. ecnaseener*

      In general it wouldn’t be a bad idea to circulate a reference sheet of common misspellings / grammar mistakes, framed as “I came across this and thought it would be a helpful resource, it covers some of the really easy mistakes to make like ‘you’re welcome’ vs ‘your welcome'”

    8. Policy Wonk*

      I would blame it on autocorrect and tell them to fix it, with appropriate apologies for the vagaries of the software.

    9. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      I agree with the others, if it’s not a pattern, probably let it go. While it’s incorrect (and will be forever, we can’t replace a contraction with a homonym #Grammar and syntax rant), it wouldn’t really help.

      If it *is* a pattern, one solution would be to have the reps who make te mistake regularly create a signature that has the “You’re welcome” message inside and they can manually select it instead of typing it out.

    10. CSR MGR*

      Thanks all, these suggestions are very helpful. To clarify, it’s two people in particular, and it’s every single time they use the phrase.

      1. ecnaseener*

        Ok then yeah just tell those two people. It doesn’t have to be a big Performance Critique but it’s annoying enough to the reader that you should let them know.

    11. Teapot Repair Technician*

      Can you install a grammar checker?

      When I worked in tech support/customer service, being able to dash off helpful and courteous responses quickly was more important that perfect writing. Stopping to proofread every email (especially loop-closing “you’re welcome” emails) would probably not have had a net benefit.

      1. LC*

        This is one reason I was always a big fan of everyone having their own templates. Not company ones! But their own that they can adjust to fit the situation. That way it would still be in their voice but they wouldn’t have to retype the common stuff (which cuts waaaay back on typos/grammar/spelling stuff) and they’d have a leg up on the complicated ones where they would have had to take a lot more time with wording.

        1. linger*

          This can’t be made a global correction because there are constructions in which the sequence “your welcome” is correct and which may realistically come up in business communication: your welcome contribution to our meeting last week.
          Do these writers only have a problem with the one phrase “you’re welcome”, or do they show a more general confusion of contractions vs possessive forms (your/you’re in other phrases; its/it’s; their/they’re; whose/who’s)?

    12. Their, there, they’re*

      I’d correct the 2 people who are doing this. But, in my experience people who use improper grammar never seem to change. They either don’t care or they just can’t wrap their head around what phrase to use or why and it’s all a big mystery and not worth the effort to fix. But. You could try.

  42. Cold Fish*

    Due to some health issues, I get a lot of really bad headaches. I think this can often lead to a misimpression of me as being slow, cold, and humorless. I also have some social anxiety so I am very quiet in general and not really great at small talk. When I have a headache, I find it much harder to push thru the social anxiety.

    I worry about this causing problems with customers or coworkers I don’t work closely with, though I try really hard for it not to. And I hope this doesn’t come across arrogant but I think I’m pretty smart. However, I’m not “quick on my feet” and I need a little bit of time to process info (especially when the info is auditory and even more so when I have a headache).

    I believe the customers and coworkers I typically work with see me as warm, kind, and trustworthy. And I have lost count of the times people have made comments like “you know… your really smart” in a very surprised kind of way.

    Anyone have advise or experience with something similar? I’ve been stuck for a while and really need to start job searching. But I know I often don’t make the best first impression.

    1. ferrina*

      Know how you come across and own it! “I need a minute to think. That’s just how my brain processes things- I’m not quick on my feet, but if you give me a problem and 15 minutes [or however long is appropriate for your industry/thought process], I can give you a strong solution.” (be prepared with examples)

      “I’m just a quiet person. I know it can seem strange to some people, but I haven’t found it an issue. I build strong relationships with my clients and coworkers…” (segue into story, bonus points if it’s the “client no one could reach that you were able to build a great relationship.

      I’d draw a distinction between “cold” and “quiet”. You can be quiet and perfectly polite (and ask for some space so you can focus while being polite), but cold sounds like you are deliberately ignoring people or being rude.

      1. Cold Fish*

        I think there is a distinction between “cold” and “quiet” too but based on my experience there are a LOT of people out there that don’t :(

        I once met someone in a personal setting, total experience lasting two hours or so. Exchanged greetings, I went back to what I was doing, X went on to visit with brother (who X was there to see). Brother later told me X thought I was “scary” because I didn’t talk. I wasn’t part of the conversation because I wasn’t in on the conversation, I was in an adjacent room for the most part.

        I like your suggestions for interviews. I think they will really help.

    2. Actual Vampire*

      I have similar issues. One thing I’ve found really helpful is to make sure I’m setting appropriate expectations and boundaries for myself when I’m not feeling my best. For example, in the past if I was about to run into a coworker in the hall and thought they might invite me to lunch, I’d duck into an empty room or just brush them off to avoid the situation, or I’d accept and end up being cranky at this miserable lunch. But if I set a rule for myself of “no long conversations when I have a headache”- and practice ways to gracefully end a conversation- I find it a lot easier to be friendly.

    3. tangerineRose*

      Do you have former co-workers, managers, etc. who work somewhere that you’d like to work? Networking with them might be helpful – they can vouch for you.

  43. Justin*

    So I went back to the office. I was very prepared to be on guard and needing to really set up boundaries to protect my neurodivergence etc (and yes, I’m getting my adult ADHD evaluation next week, in fact) but…

    The first day was mostly just setting up my computer etc. And it wasn’t so bad.

    And the second day (we’re in the office 2x/week) I was the only one from my team there. That won’t happen every week, but mostly the return was so incredibly boring and pointless, lol. In a covid world, boring is not the worst thing it can be though.

    I also am making serious headway on a professor job (like, a good one). Fingers crossed.

    1. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      There’s a reason why, “May you live in interesting times” is considered a curse :p

      I’m glad the shift has been boring for you!

    2. Parakeet*

      Best wishes on your upcoming eval! I had mine a few months ago (I am autistic + ADHD). The mail is being slow and I am so impatient to get the hard copy of my full results (which I know the basics of because the neuropsychologist discussed them with me over the course of two hour-long sessions) because I am enough of a geek to want to know as much detail about how my brain functions as possible.

  44. All het up about it*

    Thoughts on calling to ask salary bands prior to applying? I’ve been thinking about this recently and one of the retro post’s comments had people very adamant about not calling prior to applying unless there is a technical issue. But I’m wondering if any of that advice has changed in 2021. If I’m not fully job hunting right now, it is effort to write a cover letter, update the resume and send it off only to discover that they pay this role 25% less than I make now. But maybe it’s still really seen as a bad idea?

    1. 867-5309*

      It would still be a bad idea. People do not want candidates to call ahead of being engaged in the interview process.

      I make sure to address salary in the first call, usually with a recruiter, though it does still mean applying and such.

    2. ferrina*

      Eh, it depends. Ideally you know your industry well enough that you can tell from the job description what the salary band should be.
      If you are working with a recruiter, asking salary is definitely something you can do. If you’re not, I’m not sure if I would do this.

      Instead, is there a way to cut down the effort it takes to apply? I found that having templates for my resume and cover letter helped. I have a four-page “Template” resume that has all my bullets for all my jobs, then I just delete that down to the two pages that have the most relevant info for the job I’m applying for (10 minutes). I do something similar for my cover letter- 5 paragraphs with info and anecdotes for 5 different core skills, then I pick the two most relevant for that application. Update the intro paragraph, update a few details for the job, and I’m done in 30-60 minutes. It’s faster to re-write than write from scratch. It takes some time up front to build the templates, but I got my job apps down to 45-90 minutes (with filling out the long online application form).

    3. mreasy*

      I wish this was doable, but anyone who is not listing the range in the ad is unlikely to answer a call from someone who hasn’t yet applied.

      1. mreasy*

        The exception would be if you were asked directly to apply, in which case you could ask the person who invited you.

  45. Dwight Schrute*

    How do you mentally move on from critical feedback? I’ve been at my job for almost a year and I got my first piece of pretty critical feedback (totally warranted). I sent something to my boss and it definitely wasn’t my best work and now I need to re do it. I’m putting more thought and time into it this go around. I thanked my boss for the feedback but I’m having such a hard time moving on! I keep worrying that I’m going to be fired and that I’ve really disappointed my boss.

    1. Eldritch Office Worker*

      My best tool for letting things go is acknowledging when it’s out of my hands. You can’t change what you sent, or how they reacted to it. All you can control is the quality of work going forward.

      Also, as a reassurance – first critical feedback in a year? You’re not getting fired.

    2. cubone*

      not armchair diagnosing, but I recently heard the term “rejection sensitive dysphoria” and I think it can be a really helpful thing to understand. A lot of people feel really affected by perceived rejection, negative experiences, criticism, etc. I think it’s okay to be a little thrown and even sad! But honestly, try to remember that the biggest thing that matters to a boss isn’t never making mistakes, but being able to acknowledge and improve on them. It really sounds like that’s what you’re doing! Everyone makes mistakes and you deserve to forgive yourself for making one too, you’re a human person!

      (caveat: unless your mistake was say, intentionally starting a fire in your office, cutting the face off a CPR dummy, or trapping someone’s head in a bag with a bat)

    3. Panicked*

      I am a very sensitive person who does not react well (internally) to criticism or even less than stellar feedback. The thing that I have had to tell myself is that feedback is not personal- it’s business. They value me enough to know that I can do better. If they didn’t, I’d be fired. I make it my mission to correct the errors and do better next time.

    4. OtterB*

      Remember that it’s a criticism of the work, not of you as a person. (Not true with some jerk bosses, but true of ones providing reasonable feedback, which it sounds like this one is.) You accept it, as you did, you learn from it, and you move on.

      Easier said than done, of course.

    5. Anonymous Koala*

      Make a detailed plan with specific metrics for getting it right this time, and build in review time. You can also ask a trusted coworker to look over the final product before you submit it to your boss if your org allows for this – I’ve been in some orgs where this is a normal thing and others where this is not done ever.
      In my experience the best way to feel better after criticism is to put my energy into making sure my work is excellent next time.

    6. Ginger Baker*

      I think sometimes it is worth asking yourself whether you have been on the other side and how did you feel. Have you ever given some constructive feedback to someone whose work has up to that point been pretty good and this is the first time you’ve had to say “hold on a sec, I need you to go back and redo this”? Did you…hate them and think their work was total shit and want to never work with them again? I am going to guess…probably not :) and it’s worth remembering that it is OVERWHELMING LIKELY your boss, likewise, does not suddenly feel that you are hopeless as an employee because you needed some corrective feedback one (1) time in the period of one year.

    7. I heart Paul Buchman*

      I find it helpful to identify when I’m processing something in a positive way vs when I’m having an anxiety response and ruminating. For rumination I practice acceptance (identify the thought, recognise that it is anxiety speaking, push the thought away, distract myself). DBT skills are really helpful for rumination.
      Try as best as you can not to make the situation worse by seeking reassurance from your boss or coworkers repeatedly. This is an anxiety driven impulse not a professional one.
      Be kind to yourself, we all make mistakes.

    9. Not So NewReader*

      Let your boss up for air. Seriously. Decide to take him at his word, he meant what he said to the extent that he said it and there are no hidden threats involved.

      See, it’s in deciding to trust other people at their word, that we can begin to let go of our own fears about their next move. If you trust your boss to mean “fix this” when he says “fix this”, your mind does not wander around and picture you fired the next day.

      At this point in the story he is trusting you to fix this and you can trust him not to fire you over it, if you fix it.

  46. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

    Last week I wrote in about a potential great new job that would require a move back to a large metro area where my husband and I met and lived when we were young and broke. My interview went great and I’m meeting with leadership next week, and strongly believe an offer will be forthcoming in the next couple of weeks. I’ve been crunching the numbers like mad, trying to determine exactly what my take-home pay will be based on the salary range and tax calculators. It’s a slightly more expensive area, so my husband will need to find a job with at least the same pay he has now (which shouldn’t be a problem, he’s vastly underpaid).

    The problem is that he is a TERRIBLE job seeker. He gets so much anxiety at the thought of finding a job to apply to and then going through the application and interview process that he has a tendency to stay in subpar jobs until they’re unbearable. He’s not reflective about what his job actually entails so if a job description doesn’t perfectly match exactly what he’s doing now, he freaks out and says he’s underqualified. On top of that, I think he has some PTSD about job searching in this particular metro area because of how hard it was for him to find a job the last time we lived there. I keep trying to remind him that it’s been a long time, he’s a different person and has a much more competitive resume now (he’s been a manager for the past 4 years, for pete’s sake), but he just keeps spiraling about how he’ll get stuck in another dead end minimum wage job like last time.

    Any advice on how he can pull himself out of this bad place to mentally prepare for a job search? Ideally we won’t be rushing for him to take the first job that comes along, but his income will be needed once we move. I’d also appreciate any tips or resources on figuring out how to categorize your job duties to know what kind of jobs to look for? He currently manages a small chain of successful cafes but wants to get out of food service, so I’ve suggested looking into operations management roles but would be open to other ideas!

    1. 867-5309*

      This feels a little above what we can offer… If your partner has this degree of anxiety, I am not sure how you combat that without encouraging him to see a career coach or therapist. I would cautious about applying to jobs in this new city if he is this adamant, because is there a chance he would either not move with you or you would down to one income?

      In terms of career adjacent roles… GM for retail. Office manager. Operations management will be dependent on the industry (in many cases where I’ve worked, it requires deep supply and demand chain knowledge but I’m sure that’s not the case for all roles).

      1. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

        I’m overstating how severe his anxiety is. I would classify it as “normal” nerves/dislike of the job search, not clinical-level anxiety. We’ve had a very open dialog about making the move and he’ll be on board if we do move, or if he decides he wants to stay we’ll stay.

        Thanks for the advice!

        1. Joielle*

          Even if he doesn’t meet the criteria for an anxiety disorder, it sounds like he’s doing some textbook catastrophizing (“spiraling about how he’ll get stuck in another dead end minimum wage job like last time”). A few sessions with a therapist could really help him navigate the transition. Therapy is great even if you don’t have a diagnosed mental health issue!

      2. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

        Yeah, I’ve got a feeling this will end up in a “sole breadwinner” situation.

    2. ferrina*

      A couple ideas for helping apply to jobs:

      – A rewards system. I used to buy a lottery ticket for every application I turned in. Hey, I’m going to win something someday, right?

      – Scheduled time. I set aside 2 hours three days a week. The first day, I would just look at job postings and find the two that I was going to apply for that week. Then the other two days, I would apply for one each day. Having a scheduled day/time meant that I wasn’t freaking out all the time, just during my scheduled times.

      -Loud rock music. Or any kind of music etc. that makes you feel empowered. I like music that is either Devil-May-Care or I’m-Awesome to help remind myself that I am awesome, and if companies don’t see that, that’s not my problem! (yes, I know that that can be my problem, but it helps me depersonalize the job search).

      -Accept that the first 3-5 applications are going to suck. Your cover letter won’t be well-written, your resume will have tyops….and that’s okay. These are practice applications, because applying (like everything else) takes practice. Take the pressure off for those first few applications. Yes, you’ll hit submit, but it’s really so you can get used to the process again, not because you expect it to go anywhere.
      This can also help take the fear out of that first application. The more you do it, the less scary it will get.

      -Send him to AAM :) We’re happy to commiserate, celebrate and answer whatever we can!

      1. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

        These are such great tips, thank you! I think he’d definitely respond to setting a specific time and goal for that time (like find 3 good postings, then submit two applications or whatever). I have a specific career path so it’s easy for me to find any apply for jobs because they’re pretty much all the same, so I’m out of practice with managing a general job search.

        Thank you!

    3. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      I don’t know if this is feasible or affordable for you and your husband: It sounds like he could use a therapist who specializes in career stuff *or* a career coach (not the same thing).

      On finding job types, here are some ideas:
      *Build a generic resume to distill out all of his transferable skills
      *Brainstorm about allied/adjacent industries (e.g., suppliers, grocery chains, food non-profits, farmer co-ops) and poke around their job boards for titles/roles

      1. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

        Are career coaches helpful? I’d love for him to speak with one but I’ve always gotten the impression they’re not generally helpful.

        1. mreasy*

          My best friend who had her whole life changed forever the better by a career coach, and I had a very positive experience also. But I can absolutely see how they could vary in quality.

    5. Reba*

      Therapy, great time to start before the search must begin!

      Also, it seems like working with a recruiter would be beneficial. If your spouse is in a field where recruiting firms are common (maybe the case for operations?), this could be a great option because the recruiter will handle looking for suitable positions and help him prep for interviews. Looking on Linked In and asking people you know in the target city for contacts could be good places to start.

    6. Anonymous Koala*

      The spiraling stuff is hard to get over without therapy. One thing that might help him is getting better at recognizing when he‘a spiraling, and coming up with some language to use to remind himself that the spiraling and feelings of doom are not real or predictive of what will happen, no matter what his past experience has been. It takes practice and doesn’t always work, but consistently talking yourself down can help in the long term with anxiety.

      The job search stuff – I would make it as easy as possible for him to apply. Go through job ads with him and his resume and make a list of keywords that jobs he’s qualified for use, and make a deal that if he has 50% of the keywords listed in the job (or whatever metric you like) he’ll apply, no questions asked. Help him come up with a few versions of his resume for different jobs that he’s interested in. Help him write a few versions of cover letters that he can lightly edit and submit to each position. And figure out what workflow is best for him – I keep all my resumes and cover letters on the cloud, and I use the word processing program on my phone to lightly edit and submit applications. That works for me because I’m always on my phone and can submit applications whenever I have a few minutes between tasks (I love LinkedIn EasyApply for this reason). My husband, on the other hand, liked to schedule big chunks of time in the evening to submit applications.

    7. RagingADHD*

      As the spouse of someone who hates/is anxious about jobseeking, and copes with that by avoidance and halfassing the process, there is one absolutely vital piece of information missing here:

      Is HE ready to change his mindset and be proactive about managing the process better? Is he the one looking for advice and tips?

      Because I can tell you from many years of experience, you collecting tips and trying to get him to implement them is not going to work. At all. Not even a little.

      Best case scenario, he’ll say “thanks” and ignore it. Worst case scenarios would be that it prompts stress an arguments between you, and/or he will hear it as criticism, which will cause him to feel even more pressured, anxious, and avoidant.

      I have found it a much better use of my time (and much better for our relationship) to put my learning to use in my own careerbuilding, maximize my income, and let him sort himself out.

      Seeing me make substantial progress has done more to help my spouse become optimistic and take action, than all the hours (and weeks, and years) of breath I wasted trying to encourage or “help” him directly.

    8. Not So NewReader*

      Anxiousness. worry, fear can all be coming from lack of knowledge.
      Get him Alison’s job hunting book. Tell him knowledge is power. Read the book.
      My guess (and it is a guess) is that he sees job hunting as some mysterious process that luck, whim of fate, other unknown force begets him a job. Lessen the mystery of the process.

      Help him to write a general resume that he can tailor to each job he sees. Tell him to keep that as his master resume so he does not have to reinvent the wheel each time.
      Have him create files with the job description and the tailored resume paired together so he has those things together when he gets a call/interview.
      It’s all these little steps that make a difference.

    9. Hillary*

      My bff made the transition out of food service management. It took a couple years and what felt like a step back in responsibility, but it was worth it. Your husband has a lot of transferable people skills that he probably doesn’t think about because they’re fundamental to his job. He knows how to manage people who have low internal motivation, he knows how to defuse difficult customers, he knows how to motivate his people under difficult circumstances.

      When she was switching we did her resume together. I didn’t write it for her, but we spent a day translating her food service experience into more general skills. I asked a lot of questions that helped her reframe into accomplishments. We also practiced behavioral interviewing with more corporate-oriented questions.

      Does the city have a tech hub? I can see him being excellent as an entry-level implementation analyst or support person. Here those roles love to hire people with food service experience (for the reasons above) and they pay about as much as a food service manager from day one. They know they’re training on the tech skills regardless because they get a lot of new grads.

  47. ShipwreckSarah*

    Hooray, I sent out an application and someone got back to me! But this company asked me to do a one-way video interview and I’ve never had to do something like this before. I just bought a webcam and will record some test video in advance, but what are some common mistakes/pitfalls I should be aware of?

    I won’t know the questions ahead of time. All I know is that there are 3 or 4.

    1. irene adler*

      Ahead of time: Check your lighting. Might need to bring in a lamp or other lighting to make you look right on the camera (no dark shadows, that sort of thing). Be aware of the sunlight in the room at the time of day the interview will take place. One time I had the late day sun stream in about halfway through the interview. It gave me a background glow effect – like the heavens were opening up around me. Cute, but distracting for the viewer.

      De-clutter the background view or otherwise disguise it.
      Make sure there will be no/minimal noise occurring during the interview.

      For the interview:
      have ready your resume, the job description, paper and pen for taking notes, any notes or info about the company itself. Set these up outside of camera view but within your view. Organize so that there is a minimum of paper rustling during the video recording.

      I’ve done these one-way videos before about half a dozen times (HireVue). Their format is to give you a couple of practice questions to get used to the format. Then, for the actual interview, they give you a question on your screen, and give you a couple of minutes to formulate a response. THEN they turn on the camera to record your response. There are timers to let you know when you are getting close to the end of the allowed prep and recording times.

      So, use that prep time to jot down a quick outline of your response. Use this to work from when delivering your recorded response. Don’t write a script to read from. You want to glance at this outline as you continue to face the camera. That’s all. Use all of your prep time – don’t cut it short because you want this interview to be over.

      1. ShipwreckSarah*

        Thank you, Irene! I didn’t think that they’d give me practice time so that’s a huge relief. You’re awesome for writing all of that out! :)

  48. Lauren*

    Promotion feels anticlimatic AND I’m still livid over all the waiting and BS reasons why I was waiting – and still got no real bump.

    I’ve been waiting 5.5 years since my last promotion. I have been very vocal the last 3 years that I wanted the title even if without money. My boss told me to never take a promotion without a good money bump. So 3 years ago I got a 6.5% raise to keep me happy. This year I got the title and a 6% raise. I’m pissed. I could have had the title for 3 years and they basically just promoted everyone so we won’t quit during the great resignation. I asked if they would backdate my title to 3 years ago since I was doing the level of work since then after they laid off the director. They said no even though it would have made me happy AND cost them nothing but goodwill. Every year there was this excuse and that excuse – lost client, bad revenue, covid, another lost client, great revenue — then still bad timing cause leadership turned over 3x. I finally get the title and I’m so still so angry about all the years I could have had it since I never got the promotion bump (20-30k usually) to go with it for all the waiting I did. I am still looking and plan on telling them when I leave why I left – too little too late.

    1. Lauren*

      And my 2 friends confirmed that they each got 20K bumps for their promotions last year. I’m getting screwed because everyone needs to be promoted so that the agency doesn’t collapse from all the resignations.

    2. ferrina*

      Why are you still at that company? I’m really hoping they are an absolute dream outside of pay and title. I’ve found (the hard way) that once you’ve been doing the job for a year without the title, they aren’t going to actually bump you up in a meaningful way, no matter what niceties they say.

      This company is showing you who they are, so believe them.

      1. Lauren*

        I basically could not move on without a director title even with 15+ years of experience in my industry. Now I have it so it should be easier. Lots of companies are telling my peers/women in my industry that they are hiring someone with more director-level experience even though all the experience and real-world examples they want are there. Then they hire some penis barely out of college with his own dev shop. I’ve seen 4 men get jobs I’ve applied to (I’ve gotten to the 1 of 2 people stage) where they are basically using WordPress themes incorrectly. Dev is barely anything to do with my specialty. So that is why I stayed for 7.5 years. Now to move on; hopefully, not get the same rejections though with ‘not enough director experience’.

  49. SnowWhiteClaw*

    I think I’ve reached a point where I need to take a month of medical leave to deal with an issue. Haven’t discussed this with my medical team, but I think they might agree with me.

    How do I approach this with my manager? I’ve never done something like this before and I’m scared. I would qualify for FMLA, and I also have 2 months vacation time + 2 weeks sick time I can use.

    1. OtterB*

      I would discuss it with your medical team first.

      Since it sounds like there’s some flexibility (i.e. it’s not an immediately urgent medical issue) I would approach your boss that you have a medical issue to resolve that will require a month off, that it’s FMLA-eligible, and that it’s something you need to do within [timeframe – 3 months, 6 months, whatever] and what’s the best way to arrange it?

    2. Reba*

      Does your workplace offer short term disability insurance? If so, check the terms, that may be an option for you as well.

      I agree with OtterB to raise it with manager when it’s more of a sure thing. Best wishes for your recovery!

    3. Sparkles McFadden*

      Does your company have a benefits counselor or an HR rep who handles Family Leave? It’s best to discuss everything with a company benefits counselor first in order to understand what is possible/allowable. You need to know your options first because it may be that your boss is unfamiliar with that particular company policy or what the options are.

      Which route you choose depends on whether or not your medical team is on board and where your company is located. FMLA needs to be substantiated. In some places, FMLA is unpaid. My company allowed a certain amount of time where you’d be paid (4 weeks), and the remaining time would be unpaid. FMLA has more flexibility that one would think and allows days (or hours) off here and there. This worked out well for an employee who needed regular batteries of tests. He wouldn’t have to burn up all of his vacation time/sick time.

      Once you know what you need to do, talk to your manager as dispassionately as you can. State what you need and, hopefully, your manager will work with you on this.

    4. anonymous73*

      I would definitely discuss it with your medical team first so you have all of the facts, and then figure out what your options are as far as leave is concerned. with all the info in hand, have a talk with your manager. Provide the facts and decide together what’s best for you (if you have options). Unless your manager is a tyrant, there’s really nothing scary about it.

      1. Windchime*

        I would be wary about providing too many facts to your manager. I once had to take a leave of absence for anxiety, and when I told my manager why I was taking a leave, I could see the change on his face. Anger, disbelief, and annoyance. It was the beginning of the end of my career at that place. Were I to do it again, I would just keep it vague (“health problem”) and leave it at that.

  50. ferrina*

    Fellow FT working parent here! I’m seeing trade-offs at both jobs. Here’s my thoughts:

    -What are the OT expectations for each job? Not just what they want, but what you want. If you are doing pick-up and drop-off, you won’t be able to come in early or stay late to do work. With remote work, sometimes that comes with more flexible hours, but you need to have childcare (including a very on-board spouse). I had a year where I was working remotely, my spouse would theoretically be caring for the kids so I could work in the evenings, but lo and behold, it was time for me to work and the kids were crying and the spouse was yelling for cooking instructions…. 30 minute tasks then take almost 90 minutes

    -How on-board is your spouse? What are their expectations? Are they excited for the travel time, or are they dreading it? How will they cover the childcare pick-up/drop-off aspect? Seriously, talk this through with your spouse and leave no detail unturned. If it’s going to be tough, it’s better to go in knowing that.

    -Don’t count on the afterschool/summer care to balance things out until the kids are 8-10. 5/6yos are much better than 2/3 yos, but “better” means “they give me 20 minutes to work without interuption instead of 5”. Make sure that the tasks of the job align to what your kids can reasonably give you.

    -Job B has sweet maternity leave (for the U.S.). I’d count that as a point toward Job B, but not a point against Job A.

    -Lastly, it’s not lazy to “go for the easier job” because you are about to have 3 small children!! Nothing is easy with small kids! Listen to yourself and what you want. Good luck!

  51. Brave Little Roaster*

    I finally got around to updating my gravatar, so this is a test post plus a question- is your industry having in-person conferences or events yet? There is a big coffee industry event coming up soon in New Orleans (of all places) and it’s been very controversial. I’d love to get back to in-person networking and professional development classes/events but it doesn’t seem like the right thing to do yet :(

    2. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      There’s at least one big international event that’s going to be in-person…or maybe hybrid? Some of my colleagues are planning on going, it’s a pretty big and important event.

    4. TiffIf*

      I would agree that it would not be the right thing to do yet. I certainly would not attend an event like that–maybe I would if there was a testing/vaccine enforcement for attendees, but absent that, no way.

    5. Seven hobbits are highly effective, people*

      One of the issues with these events (as someone who is stuck running one soon) is that venue contracts are signed far in advance, so many events are dealing with pre-pandemic contracts they can’t cancel without hefty penalties. Last year, since state and local governments often had actual rules preventing events over x size from happening, organizers could get out of events by triggering force majure clauses. This year, even in my state with relatively strict rules last year, it’s all “recommendations” rather than requirements and events are stuck with 2019 contracts in a 2021 situation.

      Almost no one just woke up this month and decided it would be fun to have a big conference this year, we’re all just trying to limit losses from plans made before the pandemic. (Our cancellation penalty would be more money than we would make from the event if we held it in a normal year, so we couldn’t afford to pay it even if we kept registrants’ money rather than offering refunds. It’s basically all of the money we’d usually pay to rent the space, plus all of the money the hotel planned to make from renting hotel rooms that weekend.)

      It’s a mess.

  52. Anon librarian*

    Advice wanted
    I am interviewing for an academic librarian position at a small university. I am currently a public librarian (5 years) and worked as an intern at an academic library during my MLS degree.

    I know there are a lot of librarians out there. Any advice on making the leap? What should I focus on in my interview?

    I know you need more info to be specific but I don’t want to give specifics about my experiences or the position. The job includes the basics of reference librarian tasks and information instruction and I do both at my public library and I am involved in our state library association. And I’m very “academic” in my approach to things, I’d be best in a hybrid library.

    Any and all suggestions welcome from clothing (I don’t have a suit!) to tips on shifting from public to academic.

    Thanks!

    1. kjolis*

      I jumped from public to academic librarianship. Be sure you know what the student population is like – what are the popular majors? Are they more career-oriented or research-based?
      Be able to discuss how you would provide database/reference instruction to different types of learners.
      Also know what trends in librarianship are happening that are relevant to higher education. Can you find out if they are being implemented where you’re interviewing?

    2. GigglyPuff*

      Sounds like a good fit so far! I haven’t interviewed for reference positions so I don’t know what those questions would be like. But I could see talking about students who have never used a library or done research, which would probably work well with your public library work. Same with working with strong personalities (possibly faculty)=dealing with the public. Other topics I could image: technology, online instruction, curriculum work (maybe?), virtual reference.

      If it’s in person, I would go with a suit. I usually go with black jacket and pants, with a single color or light striped shirt, and black flat boots, cause you’ll probably do a lot of walking. Bring a water bottle and maybe even a snack or cash/card for the vending (even if they’re providing lunch, the all day interviews are super draining).

      If it’s virtual, personally I wouldn’t go with a jacket but probably a really nice sweater, but that’s because I tend to pull on my jacket in the chair I have at home.

      Remember, if you’re meeting with different people you can totally ask them the same questions. Also if you’re doing a presentation, there will be a chance for you to ask people questions at the end. I try not to get overly specific and pretty much stick to one.

      I’ve also started asking about budget/library outlook especially in this academic climate. Good luck!

    3. pinyata*

      I work at a large university library in the Midwest and I rarely see people wear suits for their interview here – I think you would be fine with (not knowing your personal clothing norms) a dress shirt/dress pants (maybe a tie if applicable though I don’t think it’s required) or a business casual dress or top/skirt combo.

    4. AnotherLibrarian*

      I have recommended hiring public library people for academic jobs. The candidates that most impressed me had a few things in common:
      – They could teach. They gave a solid presentation. A huge amount of academic reference work these days is instruction, especially at small academic institutions. I care less about what someone says during the presentation as how well you say it and also how well you respond to questions afterwards. Bare in mind, there maybe non-librarian folks at the presentation, so don’t assume people will know library jargon.
      – They asked smart well-thought out questions that were tailored to the people they were speaking with.
      – They seemed to genuinely understand the job. They said something during the interview that convinced me they really had a grasp of the nuances of what we were looking for. This is a hard thing to give advice on, because it is subtle. (Like porn, I can’t define it, but I know it when I see it.)

      Lastly, I would second all the advice on comfortable shoes, bring a snack, be prepared for walking around, and be authentic. I can tell when someone is telling me what they think I want to hear vs what they actually believe. Also, don’t be afraid to ask about budgets and finances.

    5. Academic Librarian*

      It really depends on the academic library, since unfortunately there are still some “my type of library is the best” attitudes. At my academic library, we have had mixed results from having people come over from public libraries to academic. The one that did not work out (who went back to a public library) refused to adapt to academia and tried to change the library to a public library. The one that did work out was willing to learn a different type of skills and focused on some under served areas such as the athletes.

      I would say for your interview, concentrate on the transferable skills of reference and instruction. Also, any jargon that you can pick up related to academic librarianship can be good to make sure that you can converse easily.

      Be aware that there are a fair number of failed academics in academic librarianship, so they may be…verbose. Don’t get intimidated and realize that if you are a librarian, you have a better grasp on what is required rather than someone who couldn’t hack the tenure track. One of my colleagues eventually told me in confidence that he knew that I was a better librarian. I told him that I was more of a librarian, since it was my calling versus his wish to be a professor and settling for librarianship.

      Break an OPAC!

      1. Anon Librarian*

        LOL, break an OPAC. We got a new one at the public library and we are enjoying trying to break it!

  53. HalloweenCat*

    This week there was an infographic that went around on Twitter about passive-aggressive phrases to avoid in emails. I felt that a lot of the “better” alternatives were… really bad. The suggested language seemed like classic softening that feels more passive and less likely to get results. The article that accompanied the graphic came from CNBC and I’ll add a link in a nested comment.

    I’m interested to hear everyone’s thoughts about it!

    2. Amtelope*

      The replacement phrases don’t seem relevant to the intent behind the original ones. “Per my last email” means “I have already answered this question, please read back in this very same email thread.” The infographic suggests “I’m following up on the below, ” but you aren’t “following up,” you’re the one who’s being asked the same question again. “Going forward” means “you don’t have to backtrack to fix existing work, but do it this way from now on.” “How about we try doing” sounds like brainstorming about how to improve our process; I don’t think it adequately conveys “here’s what you need to do in future.”

    6. Valancy Snaith*

      Honestly, those alternatives are not better. If my email says “Going forward, execute X in Y manner,” it just means…even though we’ve done it another way in the past, we’re going to do it in Y fashion now. If I’m emailing someone because I need them to do something, I am using the imperative form because I’m not requesting that they do it, I am telling them they need to do it.

    7. ecnaseener*

      “For future reference…”

      What it actually means: “Let me correct your blatant ‘mistake’ that you already knew was wrong.”

      Huh???? Since f-ing when?! What about this phrase implies that you think the reader made the mistake on purpose??

      Yeah, crap article.

    8. Mr. Cajun2core*

      I don’t even see the alternative phrases…..
      If you are going to give alternative phrases they need to be right after nor at least near the original phrase.

      2. HalloweenCat*

        Yes for some reason the infographic they used to promote the article on social media does not actually appear in the article. I wish I could post the picture

    9. Girasol*

      I always thought that “Going forward” meant, “Look, I don’t want to hear your excuses about why you did it some other way or how mistakes were made or whose fault it was. We are not going to discuss what happened. Starting NOW we’re going to…”

    10. Nesprin*

      I thought it was very silly.
      “per my last email” sounds aggressive and annoyed because that’s what I’m trying to convey.

    11. pancakes*

      I’ve seen that making the rounds, and I haven’t seen a single person who liked the suggested alternatives.

    12. RagingADHD*

      The whole thing was ridiculous and pointless for the reader, because it’s nonsense.

      It was very useful for the author, because it got a bunch of people to react, click, and share, generating a lot of attention.

    13. Not So NewReader*

      The style of writing displayed in this article here is exactly why I only read AAM now.
      It’s a bunch of cow manure. It does not clearly say what a person should do and it does create unease over pretty standard phrases.

      “Going forward” to me indicates, “Let’s create a new plan’/SOP so we don’t go through all these hurdles again. Let’s make it easier for everyone.”

      It’s very annoying how everything is labeled passive-aggressive now. It used to be called “polite”- now it’s PA. The phrases this writer uses almost sound like bullying.

      If someone sent me an email saying “I need you to do X”, I’d tell them, “In that case, you need to tell my boss so she can decide where it fits into my workload.” It’s a shame because if they just said, “Would you do X?” I would have had it done by now.

  54. EmployedButStruggling*

    Anyone have some suggestions for light virtual “co-working” (or body -doubling in ADHD speak) spaces?
    Anything with an active “work together” feel.

    I’m ADHD and was doing really well with regular routine separation/driving and all. I do have an online group therapy typically once a week (and we tend to meet unofficially once a week in addition b/c we’re all struggling) and unfortunately have been allergic to meds.
    Was doing really well until my spouse’s office called him in/doesn’t allow continuing WFH. And many of the rest of my social group is in offices and cannot have their chats that we were using to support each other up anymore.
    Now it’s a struggle between not being able to stand the quiet and being burned out of every audio channel I was using to keep myself on task/energized. I’m an introvert, but the absolute isolation is just eating me.

    For all intents and purposes, I’m a team of one, my office intends to bring us back so they’re not providing any extra work-from-home support – but it’s also not an option right now (they decided to start construction, so – not safe), and I’m unable to go out to a coffee shop/etc due to the nature of the data I manage. Due to joining at the start of the pandemic and turnover, I really don’t have much for social connections at my job. I do love the company and the work itself though, and really need a few years of this to be able to move up in my field.

    I’ve tried suggesting when HR was checking in on the WFH situations over the last few months, but the rest of IT (my dept) reacted very negatively to the suggestion of open virtual co-working/social spaces that they decided against it.

    1. Elle*

      I have the exact same issues you’re describing and to be totally honest, the thing that has saved me is TikTok Lives. That sounds ridiculous but it’s true. There are even channels specifically for body-doubling. You can fairly easily find channels that are the level of interaction you thrive in — very active, low activity or literally silently sitting together.

    2. Ginger Baker*

      You could try out FocusMate (.com) and CaveDay (.org I think). I think there’s something specific like “ADHD BodyDoubles .com” also – try googling for that too maybe. I have used both FM and CD and like both for different purposes (for CD, with Super Mario music playing!) Good luck!!

    3. ecnaseener*

      If you can do a $1/month Patreon charge, there is a discord server for patrons of the How to ADHD YouTube channel, and it has body doubling channels.

  55. CreepyPaper*

    Folks, what logos or graphics on a t-shirt would you consider ‘offensive’ for wearing to work on casual Fridays? I mean there are some which are obviously offensive (profanity, nakie anime girls etc) but like… where would you consider a t-shirt with a heavy metal band logo to fall on the ‘offensive’ scale?

    Asking because today we had an email from HR stating that someone had complained about a t-shirt that someone was wearing so from now on we aren’t allowed to wear ANY logo or graphic tees on Casual Fridays. A bit of asking around revealed that the offending t-shirt was a Pantera t-shirt with literally just the band’s name on it.

    Opinions? All I can think is that someone got offended by the word ‘pant’. Or they really dislike heavy metal.

    1. Decidedly Me*

      Wow…. I wish I had so much time on my hands that complaining about a band name on a tshirt was a reasonable use of time.

      Also, no, a heavy metal band logo (assuming the logo itself isn’t offensive) wouldn’t be a problem to me at all.

      1. Charlotte Lucas*

        Now I imagine complaining about all the bands/singers I don’t like. How dare you wear a Hall & Oates shirt? I still can’t forgive them for “Family Man”! (And pretty much all their music, TBH.)

    2. Daughter of Ada and Grace*

      I’m guessing someone really dislikes heavy metal.

      I had a high school teacher who was convinced that heavy metal was inherently satanic. She couldn’t get the administration to ban heavy metal band tshirts, but she definitely made some classmates’ lives harder for wearing their favorite bands’ shirts.

    3. cubone*

      I would guess someone might’ve googled Pantera and just saw the words “murder”, “overdose”, etc. and had a moral panic without reading anything. Like I’m imaging the kind of person who also rants that all video games are warping the minds of the children into murderous zombies. This is obviously a big assumption, but people make some LEAPS around hardcore/heavy music.

    4. Dark Macadamia*

      I’d only find a band logo offensive if it was graphic (sexual, gory, etc). I googled Pantera logos and the only thing I saw that would be remotely objectionable is like… a not-scary skull or the word hell.

      Worst example I’ve ever seen: a sixth grader wearing a shirt that said “I left my lunch money on your mom’s nightstand”. He was in my class after lunch, which means at least 4 or 5 other adults would’ve seen him before me. I was the only one to object, the solution was for him to turn it inside out, and I saw him with it facing out again right after my class.

      1. Observer*

        a sixth grader wearing a shirt that said “I left my lunch money on your mom’s nightstand”.

        That’s a gross joke all on its own. But a lot of adults are gross. But what parent allows a *kid* to wear that?! How does a school ad ministration think it’s ok?!

        1. Dark Macadamia*

          I couldn’t believe it. It was a school that usually has uniforms but occasionally has free dress days so I sent him to the office assuming they’d give him a spare uniform shirt for the rest of the day! People made the biggest deal about kids having their uniforms untucked and pulled girls out of class to write them up for having skinny pants (“but I have skinny LEGS”) but that shirt was apparently fine.

          1. Observer*

            So a bunch of misogynistic school administrators and “educators”. I shudder to think about the kinds of attitudes they are inculcating.

        2. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

          Not only that the parent allowed them to wear it – but presumably bought it in the first place!

    5. Observer*

      I just Googled Pantera, and if I found the correct band, I could see why someone might be offended. The logo has the name with the phrase “Cowboys from Hell”on the bottom. Would I go complaining about that? Probably not. Does that push the boundaries in a lot of workplaces? Yes.

      1. CreepyPaper*

        From what my oh so gossipy but reliable source told me, it is literally just the band name, nothing else. No tagline or anything. Just says ‘Pantera’ in white on a black t-shirt.

    6. Bernice Clifton*

      The only thing I can guess is that historically the Pantera logo included a pot leaf and someone thought it was on that t-shirt when it wasn’t?

    8. Policy Wonk*

      Thus my preference for Aloha shirts, or my favorite (local) sports team. I avoid logos completely. Some people get offended by the strangest things!

      1. CreepyPaper*

        Ah see now we aren’t allowed to wear sports team tops and there’s a Story behind that involving the two Premier League Manchester-based teams (United and City). Apparently a civil conversation about an upcoming game descended into a full on argument and both parties had to be separated and football/any sport tops were banned.

      2. Elizabeth West*

        At Exjob, we were only supposed to wear company logos on t-shirts, except for Sportsball Shirt Fridays. I asked the powers that be why we couldn’t wear shirts with Marvel or Star Wars characters on Friday since not everyone was a rabid sports fan. They did ONE Nerd Shirt Friday. One.

        I started wearing nerd shirts to work every day. Nobody noticed. I worried a little bit that I’d get in trouble until I saw the HR director wearing a shirt depicting a character from The Big Bang Theory TV show.

    9. Teapot Repair Technician*

      Anywhere I’ve worked, almost any graphic t-shirt would be too casual for casual Friday, unless it company swag.

      Solid color t-shirts were acceptable.

    10. PollyQ*

      While I wouldn’t find that shirt remotely offensive, I would say that t-shirts with logos are generally too casual for business casual, if that’s what was intended for Casual Friday.

      1. CreepyPaper*

        Our office is business casual on the daily, Fridays are jeans and a t-shirt. We’re not customer facing at all so we don’t need to be suited and booted. Only sales does that!

        1. PollyQ*

          Then whoever complained about the t-shirt was being silly, for sure. HR is probably just taking the position that they don’t want to have to adjudidate which designs are OK and which aren’t, and I can’t really blame them for that.

      2. RussianInTeaxs*

        Boyfriend’s “business casual” is jeans, polo, tennis shoes. Casual Friday is a jeans, regular tshirt with a punny saying or a funny logo on it, tennis shoes.
        But he is a programmer. Their requirements are pretty low.

    11. RussianInTeaxs*

      Whoa. I can’t imagine complaining about something like that.
      Unless the band is Creed. Never go full Creed.

        1. RussianInTeaxs*

          Or Barenaked Ladies.
          Or the band that had the song “Pepper” in 1996. I won’t type out the name of the band.

          1. CreepyPaper*

            Oh yes. Them.

            My husband reminded me after I posted this that I own a Ghost t-shirt and he’d be interested to know if that would be considered ‘offensive’ given the nature of the band and the logo, specifically the ‘T’. I can’t now anyway but I am wondering how it would have gone down at work.

    12. Not So NewReader*

      I can’t argue if it’s right or wrong but my rule of thumb has been NO clothing with writing on it and no clothing with advertising on it. And this rule has served me well. Perhaps conservative, yes, but I really don’t want a long, protracted discussion about what I am wearing. The pickiness drives me nuts. So yeah, no bands, either.

    13. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      I wouldn’t be surprised if there was no complaint as such, someone has just decided this and “softened”(?) it by blaming it on a complainer, rather than just state this is the new policy. (Could be a good opportunity to think of some practice you don’t like and get it banned though because you found it offensive, just saying…)

  56. BecomingSAHM*

    Sharing my story here to maybe help others going through a similar decision! Note: I recognize I am in a very fortunate place to be able to make this decision so my choice to do so is in no way a judgment on others choosing or forced into a different path. Just that if someone is struggling with a similar decision, I’m sharing that it is OK to pull back from your career for a time!

    tl;dr – I chose to leave a 6-figure job to be a stay at home mom due to insane work stress and bipolar disorder and I am so glad I did.

    I’ve been a relatively high earning tech professional in Talent Acquisition for a while, but working in startup land in TA has meant a lot of stress and long hours (50-60 every week). While my career was going really well (I have been the breadwinner for a bit now), I was CONSTANTLY in swings between uber stressed and crying and feeling-over-the-moon excited for whatever I was working on.

    We planned to get pregnant, but once I did become pregnant suddenly my priorities shifted massively. I had to go off my Bipolar medication for the pregnancy and now the idea of having long hours and intense emotional swings while pregnant and unmedicated was just NOT what I wanted out of this pregnancy. So I made the decision to leave my job to be a SAHM for the next 1-2 years. It’s meant cutting back on expenses, figuring out a plan to make some small income here and there (paid resume review, working a few short-term 10-20 hour contracts) BUT I am so so so glad I made this decision. I have never felt this happy and healthy in almost 5 years. Thankful as well I have a super supportive partner who would have championed my decision whether I kept working or went SAHM.

    Even if you are in a job that is theoretically “the best career move,” if it is causing you intense anxiety, stress, and harm AND you have the means to change your situation, please do it. Climbing the career ladder is not worth the toll on your health.

    And if you are afraid that becoming a SAHM means that you are no longer a feminist or are moving us backwards in the fight for women’s right, ALSO DON’T. The whole point in equality is the equal right to choose what works for us and our situation.

    Anyway, hope this story sheds some light on why some women may choose to become SAHMs and how it’s ok to put your own mental health first.

    1. Right on*

      Right on sister! I also wish women would all stand in solidarity: SAHM, working full time, working part time. There’s very few wrong decisions.

  57. Eldritch Office Worker*

    A friend of mine has been job searching for awhile, and she’s getting really frustrated with screening tests and I don’t know what advice to give her.
    She’s running into a lot of applications that use questions she doesn’t know how to answer. I forget what the kind of assessment is called but they give her unrelated negative questions to choose between?

    “Which is more accurate to you?:

    I overreact to stressful situations or I am unliked
    I would lie on my resume or I don’t mind doing things outside my job description
    I’m not the most ambitious person or I sometimes lose focus finishing all my work”

    They’re radio buttons not a spectrum so she needs to pick one. She’s running into these a LOT. What’s the strategy for gaming these assessments? They seem like a terrible tool to me.

    California, if that matters.

      1. Eldritch Office Worker*

        Yes, and I honestly might just nope away from a place that used them but she’s been struggling to find a job and I don’t think that would be helpful for her to hear.

        1. ThatGirl*

          Yeah, it was just a gut reaction. But it is terrible. I would probably choose one that had a statement that felt “less bad” to me, but not that involved lying on my resume. I don’t know how those tests are used in hiring decisions, though.

    2. OtterB*

      Speaking wearing my hat as someone who has done some psychological assessment development …

      If those instruments are being used properly (big if) then what matters is not individual question answers but patterns.

      Giving two negative options to choose from reduces the chance that people will respond by picking the “good” option whether or not they think it’s characteristic of them. It’s supposed to mean that it’s harder to game the assessment. :-)

      1. Eldritch Office Worker*

        Sure but the options are so oddly matche. When they’re long lists of questions where neither option is remotely applicable have they really gleaned anything?

      2. Amtelope*

        There’s no incentive to answer these things honestly when the answers might be used to screen you out. People just want to know what answers the company is looking for, since many of these with two negative options are things that no one with any sense would ever say in an interview. What are they supposed to say?

      3. Not So NewReader*

        What on this green earth could possibly be the pattern here? Serious, actual question. I just don’t understand this stuff.

    3. ferrina*

      Time for science! She should track which of these she answers honestly, which ones she tries to game the system (by guessing the answer they are looking for), and which ones she answers like Batman would answer.

      See if there is a difference in which applications get continued with, and adjust accordingly.

      Oh, and this is super annoying and terrible.

      1. Eldritch Office Worker*

        This is probably correct – though I really wish job seekers didn’t have to play these games.

      1. Eldritch Office Worker*

        Sorry I might not have written it clear enough – those are three separate questions and you have to choose one for each.

  58. Junebug*

    Is there a reasonable way to ask my boss to replace meetings with emails? I have a sensory processing issue that makes it difficult to absorb information from conference calls. I’m remote and my boss regularly has meetings to go over what I’m working on. They usually last an hour with him talking nonstop, with little opportunity for me to ask questions without straight up interrupting him. The result is I spend an hour struggling to make sense of what he’s talking about and come away without a clear sense of what he needs from me. I’ve gotten better at asking the right questions, admitting when I’m not following, and even interrupting him occasionally if I think it’s important enough, but this still isn’t working well. I’m usually so exhausted after the meeting that I have to take a break, and then I remember even less. I can’t write and listen at the same time, so taking notes doesn’t help. Company policy doesn’t allow the transcription feature to be enabled. What I really think would work is him writing me an email instead. He did that once a few weeks ago and I told him how helpful that was, but he hasn’t done it again. Is there any way to ask that without sounding completely out of touch?

    1. Elle*

      Are these meetings with many people, or just with you and your boss? If it’s with many people, it’s unlikely that the meeting would be replaced entirely. This is a situation in which people are just going to have conflicting needs and wants — I’ve worked with people who have dyslexia or other reading/writing issues who find typed-out emails much more difficult than phone calls. However, I bet there are multiple people on the meeting who would do better if a written summary or outline were sent out after the meeting. That’s something you could easily request – someone might already be taking notes for their own personal purposes that they might be willing to share with the group.

    2. Mr. Cajun2core*

      If possible I would go for an ADA accommodation? Talk to your doctor and then talk to HR.
      Now, having said that, did you remind him that one time? You may need to just remind him each time until he catches on since it sounds like he may be willing to do it since he did it once.

    3. OtterB*

      You said policy doesn’t allow the transcription feature to be enabled. Would you be allowed to record the meeting? If so, that might help.

      1. Junebug*

        It would be a time suck, but better than nothing. I’ll ask. Only the host can record, but he might be willing if I remind him.

    4. Anonymous Koala*

      Could you talk to your boss and explain what you’re experiencing, and ask them to assign someone to take minutes during meetings? That might benefit everyone, not just you. Alternatively could you record the meeting?

    5. Distractinator*

      Asking the boss to write an email instead of ramble on free-form for an hour puts the burden of organizing his thoughts onto him. Which in a fair world is exactly where it should be, but in reality bosses time is very valuable, and if he’s spending more effort writing than he would talking, it’s not going to be a system he’ll adopt. Instead, I’d request that he pause occasionally to get your feedback. (I’m assuming her ethis is a 1-on-1 check-in not a big meeting) It sounds like some of the overwhelming part is needing to parse this endless flow of words real-time. Explain to him that you’re having trouble retaining information from the start of the meeting by the end, and that it would help to recap in short intervals. Request that he “give you a chance to ask questions” and since you feel so awkward interrupting and you’re having trouble judging a good time to cut in, suggest that he proactively stop every 10 minutes, or notice the gaps between topics. Then the first question you ask is “to be sure I’ve got this right, you’re saying (two-sentence paraphrase of the last 10 minutes)”
      Another approach is to tell him you’re missing important stuff and ask if you can record the call, that’s often allowable by policy, when everyone on the call agrees. Or if this is a diagnosed thing you could go full ADA and see if you can get an exception to use the transcription software.

      1. Junebug*

        This is exactly why I haven’t asked. I’ll talk to him about recapping and recording for now. I’m still working on the diagnosis, so an ADA accommodation is a longer-range solution.

    6. WellRed*

      Is there any way for the meetings to be shorter and with an agenda? And time throughout for clarification and note taking and questions? Or ask to have it record? I’m sorry but it’s not reasonable to ask mgr to conduct meetings by email.

    7. Ginger Baker*

      As these are 1:1s, I would HIGHLY recommend you start getting wayyyy more comfortable interrupting him (I also think trying to get an agenda ahead of time is great, or at the start of the meeting go “I have x, y, and z on the plate for us to cover today, am I missing anything?”). I think it can be a tough transition for a lot of folks because they are brought up to believe that Interrupting Is Rude and while that is 100% accurate in 95% of social situations, it’s very much NOT the situation with these 1:1s. Think of it this way: Presumably, the goal of these meetings is NOT for you to watch Boss TV, Episode 23 for entertainment value…they are for you and Boss to review work status, set priorities, and discuss any issues that may have come up or might predictably come up soon. Therefore, anything you do to make these work meetings function according to those desired outcomes is by definition Helpful And Not Rude.

      I recommend practicing the following phrases *out loud* (so they become easy to say in the moment, when we can otherwise get flustered):
      “Wait, hold on. I need a minute to get down a note about Project X….[write your notes]…ok! What’s next?”
      “Sorry, back up, I am not following…are you saying you WANT me to use bleach when washing the llamas?”
      [after Boss finishes A Point] “So, to clarify, I have that you want me to a) call Gary about the alpacas and the b) submit a report into the alpaca department regarding Gary’s feedback and incorporating the numbers from the Alpaca Grooming Society’s latest survey, is that correct?”
      “Wait! Hold on…I can’t write that fast :)”
      [at end of meeting] “OK I think I have everything. Project X needs Next Step Y, we went over the llama bathing requirements, I’m going to follow up with Gary on the alpacas and get that report done, and I need to book travel for April’s Llama Grooming Convention. I think we are all set, unless you need to add anything else?” [this is also where you can say “Oh, one last thing, I realize we spoke last week about the zebra marketing team, and I did follow up with them and have an email response but I am not clear on what the next step here is…”]

      To sum up: Interrupting in 1:1s when you need to do so in order to properly follow all of the items Boss is covering is not something you need to only do “for the most important items” – interrupting to gain clarity on the asks your Boss is giving you (and/or to get time to take your notes) IS part of your job and part of how you can then be successful in achieving your work objectives.

  59. Not My Usual Name*

    I’ve been with my company for over 15 years. I’m currently considering a job search, because they recently imposed a hybrid schedule on some of us in what feels like a really draconian and tone-deaf way. Which isn’t the only reason, but it was kind of a last straw situation.

    And if I’m honest, I’ve got some longstanding frustrations that are boiling over, and I’m coming to the conclusion that these things aren’t going to change.

    So, one of my questions is – when I’m asked why I’m job searching now, what do I say without sounding like I’m bad mouthing my current employer? I’m thinking about going with the usual “I’m seeking new opportunities/more growth.” Which is true. But I’m thinking any decent interviewer is going to want more. Is it ok to say that I stayed so long partly because, up until recently, I’ve felt like I was learning and growing, and that I liked being one of the “go to” people for institutional knowledge. But more recently I’m thinking I’ve kind of “topped out,” and I think it’s time for me to find a new opportunity. Something like that, anyway.

    And if I’m being honest…I think I can do better salary-wise, and that’s always useful.

    1. ThatGirl*

      Sticking to the general facts is not going to make it sound like you’re badmouthing your employer — you just say “I’ve realized there isn’t much more room to grow at my current company, and I’m looking for more flexibility” or something along those lines.

    2. Elle*

      I think it will come across as totally normal if you say, “I’m seeking new opportunities and I love that this position would give me the chance to work in llama sculpting!” — basically switching/keeping the focus on why you want their job/would be a good fit for their job and less on why you dislike your current job. Almost everyone is leaving their current job because something about it sucks, hiring managers know this and they also know you’re going to be trying not to badmouth your old employer either.

    3. Decidedly Me*

      If I got that answer, I would wonder (and ask) more about what growth meant to you, not about the situation in your current job.

    4. Not My Usual Name*

      Thanks to all of you! I really appreciate it, and will definitely do some thinking about what growth means to me. Learning new things, or new applications of things, is definitely part of it, and is a big motivating factor for me, too.

    5. Stoppin' by to chat*

      You’ve been there for 15 years…interviewers will understand you’re looking for a new opportunity.

  60. Elle*

    During annual goal-setting, I asked my boss if the company would pay for grad school. She said yes, enthusiastically so — however she wanted a strict career goal and for me to talk to the manager of that team before approving the course of action. I reached out to the manager of that team via email over three weeks ago and haven’t heard back. What now? Do I continue bothering that manager? I’m so disheartened that she ignored me and I only reached out because my boss told me it needed to be done. I am terrified of bothering this woman who leads my “dream job” team.

    1. ThatGirl*

      It’s probably nothing personal! Your email may have just fallen through the cracks! But in your situation I’d check with your boss – “I haven’t heard from Wanda yet, do you think I should reach back out to her?” – your boss may offer to do that herself, depending.

      1. Elle*

        My boss had never heard of her or her team (we have over 150,000 employees in hundreds of countries, and by boss does not work in the same state as this person) so I am feeling like that wouldn’t go anywhere either. I work in the same geographical region as dream-boss, but my boss works half a country away.

        And I’m afraid it would just sound scolding — “my employee reached out and said I sent them, you ignored them so now I have to follow up directly.” You know?

        1. ThatGirl*

          I would hope your boss has a little more tact than that! Though it would help if your boss actually knew this person.

          I still think checking with your boss is a good idea, but I also think you can’t take the lack of response personally – I would forward this other person your original email and VERY nicely say hey, I realized I hadn’t heard back from you yet, I was hoping we could connect/to get some answers/whatever you need from her and go from there.

          1. Elle*

            Ha, well my boss is not rude but she is young and very new to management so if anything she is too nice and not blunt enough. I’ll have to talk to her about it and we’ll see. I’m just terrified of either bothering dream-boss OR having my education held up because dream-boss is ignoring us. I am absolutely wilting under the daily grind over here and I need something to feel like progress is possible (my company is not bad, I’ve only been in this job 15 months, I’m just a very quick-moving person and also very disengaged by being forced to work fully remote).

            1. ThatGirl*

              I have never worked anywhere that sending one reminder email three weeks later would be considered “bothering” someone. It’s a very normal part of business and in your shoes I would have sent a reminder after a week.

    3. RagingADHD*

      Does the other manager have an admin assistant? That would be my next move to request time on her calendar.

      If not, a polite follow up shouldn’t be a problem. Make sure you’re really specific with the goal of the meeting when you ask.

    4. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      If it’s a huge company do you have something like a HR or ‘talent management’ function? It might be better facilitated through them.

      If it’s a generally “desirable” (to a lot of people, not just you specifically) function, I bet that manager gets a ton of approaches from people who would love to work in the Rice Sculpting or whatever function…

  61. Rayray*

    Office birthdays and kicking in your own money…

    My team and neighboring team do birthdays together. There’s now an official Birthday Committee and we’re being asked (not forced though) to chip in towards treats.

    I don’t know if I like this. I don’t want to be a poor sport so I sent over $2 for the upcoming birthday but at the same time, I don’t know if I like doing it this way. We’re not really paid a lot and if I kick in $2 every time, it does add up. I don’t think the company is obligated to pay for it either, but when I suggest we just skip the birthday ordeal cause honestly most people don’t care for it, I’m seen as a Scrooge.

    What would you say or do in this situation?

    1. Dark Macadamia*

      I think if they’re going to do something like this it should be an annual contribution, not by the event. Ask everyone to donate what they can and the total divided by the number of people is your budget per birthday for the year. That way you’re not having the first couple people get a huge cake and the last ones get a muffin because people got sick of being asked to donate over and over.

      1. PollyQ*

        I worked in a department that did this, and it was great! You paid once at the beginning of the year, and then you didn’t have to think about it again. It was also entirely optional — no pressure to join.

        Another way that worked well was the “pay it forward” method, where the current birthday cake was provided by the most recent previous recipient.

    2. Goose*

      We’re asked up to $20 for birthdays. I’ve been chipping in $5 per, but it is adding up. Meanwhile, I got a $120 gift card for my bday recently, so am I being cheap?? I also don’t make much and would prefer to get rid of gifts like this entirely.

    3. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      “Gee, with doing birthdays for 30 people, those $2 donations seem like a lot over the course of the year. Is there a way we could streamline it by month so it’ll be more manageable for the organizers and for folks who want to participate and donate to the fund?”

    4. Policy Wonk*

      Recommend a day each month to celebrate everyone who has a birthday that month so you only have to buy one cake, etc. per month. Anything more than that gets to be a problem. (Though I have worked in many office that will look for any excuse to have cake…)

    5. anonymous73*

      When I was in a larger office, I only contributed money to a gift if I was close to the person. Otherwise I said no. It’s okay to say no if you’re not feeling it, and you don’t need a reason. And depending on how many people are in this group, celebrating each individual birthday is excessive and obnoxious. I used to bake cakes for my teammate’s birthdays because we were a small group. When I moved to a larger group, I told them I was only baking once a month and they had to share. Set boundaries and stick to them.

    6. AnotherLibrarian*

      One thing my old job did very successfully was have a “silent auction” to raise funds for these events. People brought in nice, but slightly used items and we sold them to raise money. I gained a very nice casserole dish for four dollars and a coworker got a working toaster that she promptly donated back to the lounge for everyone to use. It was fun, casual, and no one was forced or expected to participate. Any items that didn’t “sell” were offered free to our student assistants and then taken to good will.

      You certainly shouldn’t feel obligated to contribute, but I would also be surprised that people don’t enjoy the events if they’ve formed a committee about it. Monthly parties is also a good solution and what we did at one office where I worked.

    7. Humble Schoolmarm*

      I once worked at a job where anyone who wanted their birthday celebrated was paired with a “Birthday Buddy” who had to pay for the card and the cake. It was a bigger outlay (and probably only practical because the staff was small enough that a grocery store cake was more than sufficient), but worked out to be cheaper than $2 every few weeks.

  62. TooManyCooks*

    I’ve been with a new job for about 4 months and it’s a dream in many ways. But I’m coming out of a difficult work and personal situation (lots of location moves, dangerous work environment, etc.) that’s resulted in some significant challenges to my mental health. I’m seeing a professional (multiple, actually) but it means that I’ve not been at my best in these very crucial first months. I interviewed before some of these transitionary issues cropped up so the person I interviewed as is not the employee I’m turning out to be. I’m getting better – I’m starting medication – but I can’t help but feel like my boss is disappointed with me (despite her assurances that I’m doing well). Any advice for ways to either combat feeling like a bad employee and/or discussing with my boss what I’m going through and how I’m dealing with it?

    1. Elle*

      If your boss swears you are doing fine, believe her! I, too, struggle with the same feelings so I know it’s not that easy. This is likely something you are going to half to work through in therapy (which it sounds like you already are! good job!). Try to remember that lots of employees go through various periods of not-being-focused-on-work, not performing at 100%, and some just don’t care that much or aren’t that good at their job. It’s actually very likely, if you think about it, that you are performing perfectly adequately despite your challenges when you consider that.

      1. ferrina*

        This!

        It’s worth taking time to see where these feelings are coming from- are you picking up on non-verbal cues from your boss, or is it something internal? I’m recently off a bad job, and I still here “can we chat?” and think I’m about to be fired (ironically, it’s usually that my boss needs an update on my projects that she hasn’t been closely involved because I’m good enough to manage it all without her)

        Remember that you are so new to the job that your boss doesn’t know you either. A LOT of people struggle in their first few months- most jobs it takes 3-6 months before you are fully up to speed. You are still in the learning period.

    2. PollyQ*

      Almost no one is at their best in the first months (or even full year) of a job. You’re expected to still be learning the ropes during that time. If at all possible, can you tell your brain to quit trying to judge how good you are overall by whatever standard, but to focus on the task at hand and how best to tackle that. Self-evalution is a good thing, but only sometimes and only in moderation.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      I have trained a lot of people. I mean a lot. And almost all of them had some level of nervousness, worry and disbelief going on. The two who did not were the two who failed at the job entirely. People who do not care do not evolve.

      People who want to do a good job tend to be painfully aware of how they are not doing a good job. No one does a good job (in ideal terms) the first day/week/month and maybe even longer. People grow into jobs.

      The job I have now was a big shift in work for me. I found myself in a predicament where I had to totally rely on my boss saying I was doing well because I had No Clue.

      I know first hand from training, the people who accepted my statement that they were doing well, were the people who were the easiest to train. The people who second guessed me were the ones who needed to review everything a few times before they got it. They were their own worst enemy.

      With this in mind, I decided to accept my new boss’ statement that I was doing a good job and I just kept building on the good parts and correcting the bad parts.
      See, just because the boss says you are doing well, does not mean we stop growing and developing. It means “You are heading in the right direction keep doing things as you are doing now.” You can accept the fact that you are doing well so far and just continue to grow yourself at the job.

      I can train people. I can tell them they are doing well, if they are indeed doing well. BUT, I cannot make them accept the fact that they are doing well. That is something they have to decide on their own.

      Ask the boss how she thinks you are progressing. Be prepared to mention one or two areas that you are working on or would like to work on. And most importantly stop deciding what the boss thinks FOR her. Insist to yourself that you deal with facts not some sinister, vauge image that pops up in your thoughts.

  63. chicken fried steak*

    Can anyone advise on rates or standard procedures for small consulting jobs? I’ve never done it before, but was recently contacted to help solve a few problems for a company in generating some reports.

    They’ve got a handful of pain points that I’ve got some ideas about, and in theory I could create like a proof of concept that resolves all of em, except that they’re problems I haven’t actually encountered before, and in some cases the solution might turn out to be “there isn’t one.”

    Any ideas on how to approach something like this? Basically taking on a job to look into a handful of software microchallenges with no guarantee they can actually be solved.

    1. Not So NewReader*

      Not a real answer but perhaps food for thought.

      My friend does carpentry work freelance style. His goal was to offer lower labor rates than his competitors and reach people who may not get help any other way. He checked around to see what other people were charging. He came in at a much lower rate.
      Time went on and his competition really raised their prices a LOT. At the same time, he realized his cost of living was going up and up and he needed more income. And so he started with increases. He went up about $5 per hour every couple years. (He was very underpriced when he started.)
      He also realized that his target market group of people did not always pay him. As his prices went up he started getting paid with more reliability and his target market group changed. He started taking customers on basis of referrals because he realized that current customers would try to protect him from people who do not pay. (He refers to it as, “Don’t send me AHs who do not pay.”)

      Punchlines:
      See what others are doing.
      Do not set your rates so low that people forget to respect you and forget to pay you.
      Think of the rate you set as a starting point and that you will probably increase it in the future if you stay with it.
      And most importantly, actually do increase your rates later. The first time I told my friend he wasn’t charging enough and that was why people weren’t respecting him, my friend and I had words. We actually argued. Don’t be like this- be willing to increase your rates on regular intervals. My friend is still at least $30 below going rates and that is after all these increases. Sigh.

  64. cubone*

    any people who are in full-time facilitation roles with advice for how to develop your skills/move into this work?

    I’ve posted before and got great advice about transitioning into learning and development, training, etc. but I would really like to work towards becoming a professional facilitator. I do deliver trainings in my current job, plan to explore some more formal education (I would like more understanding of theoretical stuff), and I’ve done a lot of one-off trainings, webinars, read books about facilitation practices… but I still feel like I am missing “something”. I’ve talked to my current boss and my boss at my previous job about practicing these skills at work (like leading a decision making discussion, brainstorming, debriefs, etc) and I get these really weird “no’s” that are articulated as “we would need an outside person to do that, it’s important to have a neutral 3rd party for those things”. Which.. I understand to SOME degree, but I feel like I am collecting knowledge and have no avenues to actually practice these skills!

    This kind of became more of a rant, lol but any experiences in how you became a stronger, more experienced or professional facilitator would be appreciated!

    1. ferrina*

      What you are talking about is the soft skills, which luckily can be practiced in a lot of places!

      Do you do tabletop gaming? Dungeons and Dragons (and particularly DMing) has a LOT of crossover with facilitating (having a plan yet being able to roll with surprises, making sure everyone has space to say their piece, being authoritative yet approachable). See also: leading guilds on mmorpgs
      Volunteering roles, particularly with kids, can help hone these skills as well. The bar can also be lower for entry- I got my first facilitation experience volunteering.

      For the “Nos” you are getting at work, ask yourself: Would you want a coworker facilitating this event? It’s nice that you want the experience, but sometimes the company does need an outsider, particularly for sensitive stuff. Look at how you lead other meetings that you are a part of- are you getting feedback about your skills there? Ask your boss about your soft skills in general and what you can focus on developing. If you haven’t yet, talk to your boss about your interest in facilitating and getting experience. They may be able to find good opportunities, but then again, sometimes there just isn’t a good place and you’ll need to get that experience elsewhere.
      Good luck!

      1. cubone*

        this was really helpful, thank you! I think I thought there was some secret sauce I was missing that would make my skills “official”. I’m not a huge D&D person (less about the facilitation part, more that my only experiences with it have been with people who are REALLY into the roleplay part, and I’m just not a great actor), but this is a great example. I’ve actually done a lot volunteering wise and with kids/teens in the realm of facilitation and training, so I think I’m actually downplaying my skills because they weren’t in a formal “work” context.

        And you make a great point about the coworker piece! This helped a lot to reframe how I’m looking at it. I definitely don’t want to organize and facilitate, say, strategic planning for the whole org, but even just a debrief or brainstorm. But I completely see your point! I think part of the problem I’m having is I already get a lot of very positive feedback on my soft skills (I am not trying to brag, but truly every boss I’ve ever had has brought it up unprompted and done the “there’s nothing for you to improve on, you’re great at communicating/navigating conflict/teamwork/leading meetings/problem solving” thing). My current boss is okay but I don’t think is comfortable at all with development or feedback conversations (they’re .. not a great boss. Lol). They just kind of tell me I’m doing incredible, no complaints, keep going, etc. I don’t want to give up on getting some more experience within this role, but I think I need to look elsewhere. But still, super helpful.

    2. Camellia*

      So, thirty years ago there was this thing call “Total Quality Management”, or TQM for short. You know, one of the phases that companies go through, trying to make things better – at least, my company was. The reason I mention it was because one of the components/personas of this movement was ‘facilitator’, and I was able to take specific training to become a facilitator. I facilitated meetings for several different teams, helping them to improve their processes and so forth. I was good enough that the VP of our department asked me to facilitate a series of meetings of him and his direct reports, for a specific thing they wanted to accomplish.

      Perhaps you can research TQM and find facilitator training/info that way. I think that specific techniques wouldn’t change much, and it really was good, targeted, specific training.

      1. Camellia*

        And it did focus on being a ‘neutral third-party’ facilitator, very different from being a trainer or simply conducting meetings.

        1. cubone*

          oh cool, thank you! I haven’t heard of this. There seem to be A LOT of different programs and if I had all the money in the world, I’d take everything.

          I really get the “neutral 3rd party” part, it’s clearly a key element of effective facilitation. But I guess I’m confused how anyone gets to that point if they can’t practice it in their current job? Like what programs, certifications, experiences do you have that someone will hire you to BE the neutral 3rd party? I have quite a bit of experience (I am actually a certified trainer for mental health first aid), but I don’t feel like that makes me qualified to become a facilitator-for-hire. Maybe I’m overthinking it.

  65. Crystal Stair*

    Hey y’all, sorry for the long post, but I wanted to share another bananas story from my old, awful job. Here’s my previous post: https://www.askamanager.org/2021/09/open-thread-september-3-4-2021.html#comment-3536950

    ** On the 12th Day of Holiday Cheer, My Worst Boss Gave to Me… **

    A detail I forgot to mention last time is that the 12 Days of Holiday Cheer ultimately culminated in holiday presents. This is a nice gesture in theory. However, it’s pretty unusual for the work culture in government — American separation of church and state and all that notwithstanding, we don’t actually make that much money. I’ve been in various levels of government for a few years now, and the most any manager typically does is bring in a thing of baked goods or chocolates for everyone to share.

    What makes it much, much, weirder is that the Director (and/or the Deputy Director and other managers) purchased individually-picked presents for each employee in the office. They mailed the presents to our homes that December without telling us that we’d be receiving presents or asking if we wanted to opt in or out. They didn’t see fit to mention this until like the 6th or 7th Day of Holiday Cheer either, after many presents had already been ordered and delivered to the recipients.

    A few people accidentally opened theirs early and got admonished by the Director for opening a present that they didn’t know they were getting, which showed up in regular Amazon packaging. Okay, cool. Mine came early, so I accidentally opened it because I thought it was something I’d actually ordered and had a WTF moment before learning about the presents. I ended up just taping the package shut again because I didn’t want to get yelled at for opening my own damn mail.

    We then had to open all of our presents on camera over video call, and act appropriately surprised and grateful. I’m a terrible actor, but hey, that’s why I went into law instead. I got a milk frother, which I promptly regifted. Other people got a range of stuff roughly in the $15-$25 ballpark, except for one person who got an echo dot. I’d only been there for like a month at that point, so I wasn’t very up on the interpersonal dynamics of the office, but I had an inkling they might’ve liked that person more than they liked the rest of us. It very much had the energy of The Office episode where Michael Scott brings in an iPod for the white elephant gift exchange.

    2. GoryDetails*

      That’s… very weird indeed! Not least the “how dare you open packages with your name on them that we chose not to tell you were coming, Special Rules And All”. Would love to have been a fly on the wall at whatever meeting decided that plan!

      As for the milk frother, I’d have been tempted to post a cheery video of me using it to froth some milk for the cat. [Note: I don’t give milk to my cats, it’s not really good for them, but it’d be tempting to let the Givers Of Mystery Gifts think that little Bootsie adored the frothy milk.]

  66. Gobsmacked*

    This morning, a coworker replied all to a vaccine/weekly testing mandate email from HR (the choice is either/or). Coworker is vaccine averse, testing averse, AND said they wouldn’t even sign the paper saying they’d received the memo. What is an appropriate reprimand for this type of behavior? What does this say about my organization if they don’t respond to this disrespectful email? I’m astounded by the lack of respect for coworkers.

    1. Anonymous Hippo*

      What would be the steps taken if an employee responded like this to any other company policy? I’d assume the general view would be “abide by the policies, or discipline action up to and including termination will occur”. And then go from there.

        1. Gobsmacked*

          This is my feeling as well. Just a bit stunned as it’s been the better part of the day and … crickets. I feel like the reply all warrants addressing so as not to embolden other anti-vaxxers.

          1. Justin*

            Well, you never know. Maybe they are crafting something for everyone to read and speaking to her alone. IDK.

            Hope you’re free of this person’s nonsense.

          2. Analytical Tree Hugger*

            I agree with @Justin, in a reasonably functional company, any reprimands would be handled privately, so the fact that you’re not hearing anything is a good thing (assuming you aren’t this persons manager, in which case you could be the one initiating the private conversation).

          3. cubone*

            would it be appropriate for you to reply to the original email sender (or HR, someone in leadership – not the coworker) and say “this was an uncomfortable message to receive, and I’m wondering if it has or will be addressed?” ?

            1. pancakes*

              I don’t think so. I agree with Analytical Tree Hugger than any reasonably-functional company would follow up with this person privately, not in another reply-all, and it’s not as if they’re going to change the vaccine or testing policy just because one person acted out about it.

    2. TooManyCooks*

      I’d imagine they should start looking for a new job. If this is company policy, employees are required to follow company policy. If they don’t, they can’t work there. Pure and simple.

    3. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      Well, I wouldn’t assume that you would be party to any sort of response they do give anyway, since disciplinary actions should remain between them and their powers-that-be.

    4. Observer*

      What does this say about my organization if they don’t respond to this disrespectful email?

      How would you know if they responded?

      The only thing your HR and the CW’a manager should be doing is holding the line on the mandate. And letting them know that whether they sign the memo or not, they need to confirm one or the other or they will be placed on indefinite unpaid leave or fired. And none of that needs to be public.

    5. Sparkles McFadden*

      To be fair, it’s not as if HR is going to Reply All and tell the employee “You’re on warning and you are also an ass.” I would hope it would be dealt with quickly and quietly. If this doesn’t happen, I am sure the Angry Employee Who Will Make His Feelings Known to All will blow himself up in some other way. People like that always do.

    6. Brownie*

      Similar situation this week at my office. My company has a professional behavior performance management goal which applies to all employees so it’s being handled through that. Anyone who took part in the (virtual) screaming match gets a Failed on that goal at end of year reviews (means normal taken-for-granted raises are at stake) and is being referred for disciplinary measures, such as temporary work suspension without pay, if the behavior was considered egregious or threatening towards other employees. The whole thing caught management completely off-guard so they’re scrambling to figure out how to handle this in a way that doesn’t escalate the behavior.

      I’d bet if you haven’t seen any replies to that Reply-All that the initial reaction was to immediately lock the email thread so no one could reply to it at all. If they’re like my company’s management they’ll wait until Monday to issue something about respectful professional behavior that’s signed by the CEO/owner instead of having a lower management person respond on a Friday.

    7. PollyQ*

      You skip right past “reprimand” and fire their ass. And in fact, your company may be working on doing that right now.

    9. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd (ENTP)*

      Do you think they “accidentally on purpose” replied all (which I presumed) or was it a genuine mistake, or come to that just a deliberate reply to all!

      You won’t see anything stated publicly about this, but I think there’s a chance your coworker will be ‘mysteriously’ gone (fired or suspended) shortly. I am curious for you to report back on how this plays out!

    10. Pocket Mouse*

      1. If I were HR, I’d reply with a brief message that any questions and clarifications can be discussed with HR, here’s how to contact them.

      2. Everyone should have been BCC’d to begin with.

    11. SnappinTerrapin*

      Well, If I have to write a disciplinary action, there is a space for the employee to sign. If the employee doesn’t want to sign, I simply write “Refused to sign” in that blank.

      It really doesn’t matter whether this employee acknowledges the policy in any way (other than the email she already sent.)

      If the company is well run, the policy will be followed. If it isn’t well run, publishing the policy was a waste of time.

  67. Elizabeth Bennett*

    tl;dr: I’m looking for Practical Advice on getting started and organizing myself to write a dissertation.

    I’m in a professional doctoral program (so not a PhD, but a practical degree for working professionals). The coursework has been good, and the program is reputable, but the department is…disorganized at best. Writing a dissertation is required for graduation (and expected to take two years) but there is almost no guidance. Like, none. Like, here’s a book on writing a dissertation, now go find yourself an advisor. I don’t want to approach any of our fairly well known scholar professors without some more specificity – I mean, in order to even choose the right professor to approach, I need to have a more specific idea of what I will be researching and writing about. I like the work that I am doing in the classes (and professionally) but it is piecemeal by nature (I’m in a profession that is very generalist – I cover a lot of varied ground in my work – which is part of why I love it). I enjoyed research and writing shorter academic papers in my grad programs (and I write a lot for work, but not super academically), but I have no idea how to take a vague collection of interests and ideas that I have in my head and turn them into something with a “spine” that I could spend two years writing about.

    Side note in case it helps: I chose the program because I had some fellowship money there connected with my master’s degree, and I have professional development funds from work that cover most of the tuition (and the school is fine, a real department in a real university), so while it’s not ideal from the perspective of guidance and organization, it’s fine for what it is. I’m getting a decent degree for very little out of pocket cost. And earning the title of Dr. matters a little bit for women in terms of garnering respect in my particular profession. Also, I work full time and have two children, along with the school work, so getting organized is of the utmost importance if I’m actually going to finish this thing.

    For those of you who have been through this: Any advice on how to get started? On writing a dissertation in general? On approaching a potential advisor? Or stuff I haven’t even thought of? Thank you!!

    1. Yorick*

      On choosing a dissertation topic: What was your favorite class? What was your favorite material from that class? Were you really into one of the smaller research papers you wrote?

      You don’t have to have a firm idea of what your dissertation will be in order to find an advisor. You just have to know the general topic that you will work on so you can pick the faculty member who specializes in that. You could also go backwards: Was there a particular faculty member whose class you really enjoyed, and you think it would be nice to work with that person? If so, think of your favorite material from their best class – that could be the broad topic of your dissertation.

    2. Princess Flying Hedgehog*

      Does your university have a good writing center? The university I work at has a really good writing center that actively serves grad students (in addition to undergrads), and they can provide a lot of help and guidance with writing a thesis or dissertation — where to start, how to structure, help with staying on track with the writing, etc.

      You may also want to look around to see if your university has grad student writing support or writing accountability groups.

    3. Justin*

      Woof, that sucks. I’m in an EdD program but there’s a lot more support than your non-support.

      Do you know any scholars in your field? Anyone whose work compels you? Can you reach out to them just to talk? Talk to other students who have finished the program and see what they did. Really just set up a few hours a week to focus on gathering this info about possible commitees, etc.

      As for a topic, what else have you been working on? There will be something in your prior coursework or any talks/writing/etc you might have done that you can build on.

    4. Name Goes Here*

      A couple thoughts, in no particular order:

      It’s partly your advisor’s/committee’s job to help you locate a topic of the appropriate scope for a dissertation. You don’t need to roll up with a perfect diss idea. So, start w/ the advisor. Is there a faculty member that you get along well with? That you feel you can go to with questions and be open with? (You’ll do all of this during the dissertating process.) Ask them; if they say no, ask them who they’d suggest (you don’t have to pick your committee on your own either.) Also, for what it’s worth, don’t feel that what you pick for your dissertation has to somehow line up perfectly with your advisor, especially since your subject of inquiry is likely to change during the process of writing the dissertation.

      While your best advice will come from an advisor/committee, there are a number of good books out there about dissertating: Destination Dissertation; Writing Your Dissertation in 15 Minutes a Day; Reason and Rigor; How to Write a Lot. These will have advice on subjects such as the various parts of a dissertation, how to conduct analyses, and how to block out time to actually work on it.

      You might also try to connect with other people, whether in your program or not, who are also working on a dissertation. Fellow doc students can often provide insight and support that your faculty may not be able to.

      (Source: Currently working on a dissertation for a non-STEM PhD)

    5. NotMy(Fancy)RealName*

      Can you talk to students who are ahead of you in the program? They will know who’s good and who is awful as an advisor.

    6. Anonymous Koala*

      Start by reading other dissertations from past students in your program – the library should have them, and it’ll give you a sense of project themes, scopes, and what kind of evidentiary support you need – do you need to collect data? Come up with a new theory? These past dissertations will help you determine what the committee will look for.
      Then take a couple of your favorite ideas and write a 2-3 page scope for 1-2 of them identifying your research question, 2-3 aims that you will investigate to answer your question, and some basic foundation explaining why your question is worth investigating.
      Now go to your faculty and identify some people who might be able to advise you on your project. Ask their students what they’re like as advisors – you want someone who isn’t too busy but is experienced, who is responsive, and someone who communicates really well. When you’ve identified a few reach out to them, explain that you’re looking for an advisor, and include 2-3 sentences about your possible thesis topic, and ask for a meeting. Turn up at that meeting well prepared to talk about your topic (read lots of literature about it) and how it relates to your professor’s field. Once you get a professor to take you on, they should be able to help you refine your ideas and turn it into a thesis. The most important thing to focus on is reading those past dissertations and reading all the literature you can find about your chosen topic.

    7. CorgisAndCats*

      What kinds of questions are you interested in answering? Are you wanting to work with qualitative, quantitative or mixed methods data? When I was in my doctoral program I had a small notebook that I carried around and anytime something struck my interest I would write down a research question related to it. I ended up reducing and refining these questions as I went through my coursework but the process really helped me refine my interests. Ultimately, a dissertation is kind of like a big final project, lots of people place so much importance on it, but for most of us it’s just another hurdle to show that you can competently research/write at a professional level. Don’t let perfection be the enemy of completion and let go of the idea of finding the perfect question. Pick something you are interested in and start pulling the research. Good luck!

    8. AnonyAnony*

      Everyone above gave very good advice. I finished my PhD in 2019. I’m adding a couple more thoughts:

      – Getting started: I agree with comments above to start by reading dissertations of recent graduated students from your program to get an idea of what topics and methods were used by the successful students.

      – Keep in mind that there is no need to completely reinvent the wheel with your dissertation. It’s normal to build your dissertation work on the work of previous scholarly studies.

      – It’s normal (unfortunately) to read multiple articles or book chapters for an hour or more just to write one sentence for your dissertation.

      – In the type of work I do (a healthcare field), many people find it helpful to use a reference management software (Zotero, Mendeley). I find it to be a huge lifesaver! Don’t know if it’s relevant in your field at all, but sharing just in case.

      -Potential advisor – seconding the idea for talking with students ahead of you to find out who are the more supportive and responsive faculty. When you read previous students’ dissertations, look at the name of the advisor and committee members. Knowing which faculty advised on the dissertations that resonated with you can help inform who you want to approach.

    9. fueled by coffee*

      Other people here have given some great advice re: finding an advisor, and I agree that should be your first step, and then your advisor should help you refine your interests into a manageable dissertation.

      As to your concern about jumping from class projects to “something with a spine,” in many social science and natural science fields (and so I’d assume professional fields, too), it’s relatively common to have a dissertation really be 3-4 research papers ‘stapled together’ with an introduction and conclusion. This way, you just need a uniting topic, and then you can approach it like multiple smaller (but connected) projects. It makes it feel less overwhelming!

      For example:
      Overarching topic: Hiring practices in the warm beverage industry
      Ch. 1: Hiring practices among teapot manufacturers
      Ch. 2: Hiring practices among coffee-maker manufacturers
      Ch. 3: Hiring practices among electric kettle manufacturers

      Or:
      Overarching topic: Hiring practices in the warm beverage industry
      Ch. 1: Interviews with hiring managers in the teapot manufacturing industry
      Ch. 2: A historical look at teapot hiring practices: 1920-Today
      Ch. 3: Interviews with recent hires in the teapot manufacturing industry
      Ch. 4: Hiring managers and recent hires disagree about the most important skills in making teapots

      You just need to approach an advisor with an overarching topic — they’ll work with you on figuring out how to find a manageable project. Also, the best dissertation is a *finished* dissertation – you just need to identify an area where you can build off of existing research. You don’t need to win a Nobel Prize (although it would be cool if you did).

  68. LegallyRed*

    Does anyone have experience with accepting a job offer and then receiving a second, much more appealing job offer a few days later? What did you do?

    This is happening to my partner right now. He’s fresh out of grad school in a field where it’s typically expected that you’ll have had a job lined up before graduation, but these aren’t typical times. The first job is not what he wants to do long term but does offer some experience that the second job does not. The second job is in his preferred field and pays significantly more (like, more than 2x as much). It’s also remote, whereas the first job is in-person. This would be a big help to our family as we have young children and I’m a cancer patient, so I have a lot of medical appointments and such where I need his help (either emotionally or with childcare).

    The other wrinkle is that he doesn’t yet have a formal offer from the second job but has been told, “We want to hire you, we’re checking your references but only HR can send a formal offer.” So I don’t think he should rescind the first offer just yet, in case something wonky happens with the second offer. (If it does, it won’t be because of his references.)

    These are both government agencies, fwiw. (The first is local, the second is federal.)

    1. TooManyCooks*

      I agree, don’t rescind the first until the second has not only offered but the offer has been accepted. Sometimes things come up in the negotiation that might mean he doesn’t accept the 2nd offer. But I think it’s reasonable for him to approach the first job once he’s accepted the second and let them know honestly what happened. No job should expect that they’re the only job someone is applying to and these things might happen. He can explain that he was excited about working there, but that he received another offer after he’d accepted theirs that was too good to pass up. If they’re reasonable, they’ll understand.

    2. Analytical Tree Hugger*

      Well, he doesn’t really have an offer yet. Hopefully this doesn’t sound harsh: Until he has an offer letter, with a start date and no conditionals (including background and reference checks), he doesn’t have an offer. For example, the “we want to hire you, but…”, it’s the “but…” that’s important.

      So, he’s borrowing trouble. Right now, all you can do is wait to see how this plays out. If offer 1 comes in before offer 2, see if offer 2 can speed things up. They may not be able to because of regulations, but that’s when you two can decide what to do.

      1. Amtelope*

        I agree to wait until he has an actual solid offer with a start date to do anything. This is a situation where even if he has to accept offer 1 before offer 2 comes in, it’s probably worth burning the bridge with company 1 by saying “I know I accepted, but now I’m backing out;” twice as much money + in his field + remote (when he wants remote) is a lot. But don’t do anything for “we want to hire you,” that means nothing.

    3. Anonymous Koala*

      This exact thing happened to me last year (and my second offer was federal too, and yes, they take forever to give you official letters). My advice is to do the crappy thing and go along with the first offer until he gets a real offer from the second. He’ll burn a bridge with the first org, but if he wants to stay in federal government it shouldn’t matter (and people stay here forever). It’s very unlikely that the second offer will get pulled, but it could happen (Fed HR is weird) and he has to look out for his interests first.

  69. Galadriel's Garden*

    I have someone on my team – who doesn’t report directly to me, but whom I do project manage and have been training – who is, to put it bluntly, apparently not very smart. They were hired into a technical position that they claimed they had previous experience in (that is a whole ‘nother can of worms) and have been with the company for over ten months now, and it feels like the first month more often than not with the sorts of questions they ask and demonstrated lack of understanding of our systems and procedures. I’ve spent the past few weeks trying to train them to take over a task I own, and it’s honestly been one of the most frustrating experiences in my professional career: I have explained things multiple different ways, I have watched them take ample notes and screenshots on Zoom, I have confirmed their understanding of the tasks both broadly and in detail, I have answered (literally) the same questions over and over, but nothing seems to actually stick. It’s like Groundhog Day. Our team’s director recently asked me if I had difficulties with this person not understanding how to do basic tasks and asking repetitive questions, so it’s apparently not just me (which is somewhat reassuring, but also does not help).

    What do I do with this person?! The remainder of our team are high performers – and on whom falls much of the work that is too complex for this person, which does not do much for team morale given that they was hired to help the team. With that in mind, how do I manage working with them? Is this a PIP situation from their manager, or something else? Are we doomed to give them the least-complex tasks forever?

    (Note that while I’m not in a “manager of people” role, that’s the ultimately trajectory for my position…so while this is not directly my problem now in a performance management sense, it may be in the future, with this person or someone else)

    1. Galadriel's Garden*

      Replying to add – I do realize it sounds very unkind to call someone “apparently not very smart” professionally, but there really is no other way to phrase it. This person is like Teflon, and information just slides right off. No amount of workflow charts, written explanation, on-the-fly Teams messages, video chats, walk-throughs where I do the thing, walk-throughs where she does the thing and I watch/explain have gotten her to a point where she fully understands this thing end-to-end, after almost a month, even broadly. I’m at my wits’ end trying to teach her, and I come from a background of teaching…!

    2. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Have you asked this person directly what’s going on?
      “Nancy, we’ve gone over the teapot polishing process 10 times, in three different ways, and I’ve watched you do it successfully. So why do you keep coming back and asking me how to polish a teapot?”

    3. Sparkles McFadden*

      Document, document, document. Outline the training you’ve done with this person, training you’ve had to repeat, what tasks have had to be reassigned to others etc. Then go to your manager because this is taking up far too much of your time.

      This is definitely a PIP situation, but you’re not this person’s manager so you can’t really make that happen. All you can do it report how much of a drain on your team’s resources the constant retraining is and how this person’s tasks have to be completed by others. I hope the person’s manager pays attention to the situation. Some managers don’t handle low performers very well and what ends up happening is that some of the high performers get irritated and move on. I hope this all works out.

    4. anonymous73*

      Are these processes documented? If not, that would be my first goal. I’ve been a Business Analyst, a Knowledge Base Article writer and worked in IT support. If you have something documented, you can point them to said document.

    5. PollyQ*

      I hear two questions: (1) how should this person be handled right now and (2) how should you specifically handle this kind of thing if & when you’re a “real” manager in the future.

      For (1), it is up to her actual boss, which sounds like your director. I would definitely go to her and be very clear about the kinds of problems you’re seeing, what you’ve already tried to do to help, and ask her what she’d like you to do going forward.

      For (2), if your company requires a PIP, then I would say that’s the next step, although it sounds to me like she simply doesn’t have the skills/talents required for the position, and it might be reasonable just to let her go. (Keeping her around forever is ridiculous unless there’s a genuine need for a full-time person to handle low-level tasks. And even there, you’re probably overpaying her for that kind of work.) Perhaps offer some severance if it seems like she’s been doing her best, partly out of generosity, partly because your company bears some responsibility since it should have been able to figure out that she wasn’t right for the role before hiring her.

    6. MissDisplaced*

      Well, I mean you need to document and put them on a PIP. Or have a discussion with their manager who will put them on a PIP and/or manage them out.

      I don’t know what the normal learning curve is with this job, but 10 months is a long time if they had previous experience as they claim. Sometimes jobs are simply not a good fit, or maybe there is something else going on with the person. Who knows? But at some point it needs to end for the sake of both parties.

  70. August*

    Good news — I’ve got an official job offer! Less good news – I have to give notice to my current manager. I’m really struggling with not feeling like this is a betrayal.

    This is my manager’s first managerial position, which she’s had for less than 2 years. She’s had a bad time managing our little team. The remaining team members, my three coworkers, had no manager for years before she came on, and have pushed back on every single thing she’s proposed or set out. I won’t get too far into it, but they’ve been awful to work with and their behavior is a huge reason I began job searching in the first place.

    The constant arguing has made her constantly stressed, anxious to the point of paranoia, and latching onto me as the one friendly presence on our team. I’ve been tasked with ghostwriting emails to our team on her behalf because she thinks my language choices are least likely to offend the others. While trying to curb our coworkers’ behavior with HR and management, she repeatedly made remarks like “every day, I worry that this mess will end up with me losing [August].” Which, flattering? But also a lot of pressure.

    To compound that, we’re anticipating getting hit with a new flood of funding and assignments in the next couple of months, so her stress has quadrupled. It’s very clear that she’s prepping me for the increased workload this will eventually bring.

    Any scripts that I can use when giving notice? I don’t necessarily think she’ll get angry with me, but I wouldn’t be surprised if she starts stressing during our call. I’d like to prepare some language so I don’t panic and go “well, you know [team members] are terrible. I hate working with them. You hate working with them. I deserve better and you should leave too because your health has clearly been impacted.”

    1. Jean*

      You can have empathy for someone else without making their problems into your problems. Your manager’s unpleasant current situation is on her to cope with and isn’t your responsibility. Just keep it direct and neutral, and make sure to tell your manager how much you appreciate her efforts with your team over the last few years, and how much you’ve enjoyed working with her. Best of luck in the new gig.

    2. Observer*

      I don’t have a script. But I think that you should prepare TWO scripts. One to tell her you are leaving. And second one to shut down the conversation.

      To be honest, it doesn’t sound like she’s a good manager. I get that she’s managing difficult people. But her way of handling it, including offloading so much on you and making you her shadow manager without the rewards or authority of a manager, is just not good. So, I’m glad you’re getting out of there.

    3. cubone*

      I feel for her but……… I have a hard time having sympathy because it sounds like she’s dug the hole deeper, intentionally or not. You should NEVER have been asked to ghostwrite her team emails! That’s a pretty shocking and inappropriate request to me, even though I can completely understand her thinking and goal, but it’s just Not Okay. She’s uncomfortable and struggling in the position, but there are about a million other choices and ways to handle that that aren’t “lean on an employee to do the hard parts of my job.”

      I’m not saying managers can’t have feelings, but placing the burden of dealing with YOUR stress on someone who reports to you is just a really unacceptable abuse of power dynamics. I have been there – I had a manager who sobbed during my performance review about her marital stresses (lol). I would give yourself a bit of a mantra: “her stress is not my responsibility to manage” and keep that at the forefront of your mind as you prepare (heck, even right it down and stick it to the wall if the conversation is virtual).

      Re: scripting – I think this is often the inverse of the “why did you leave your last job ” interview question. Have a neutral-ish answer that is appreciative, polite, and nonconfrontational (“I really appreciate how you’ve supported me here, but it was time for me to make a change” or something similarly vague and uninteresting). If you do really want to be honest (which you don’t have to be!), I would phrase it like a known factor more than a come-to-jesus reckoning. Something like: “I think we both know there have been some challenges , and I’ll be frank that the dynamic of our team is not working for me any longer. This isn’t a criticism of your management, but this was just one of many factors that impacted my decision to move on.”

    4. PollyQ*

      How is it any kind of betrayal? Did you swear an oath to be loyal and true to her or the employer for the rest of your days? Did she or they swear an oath to you? I’m guessing not, so all you’re doing is committing the basic, ordinary act of leaving a job that’s not working out.

    5. April*

      I’m in a similar boat! About to accept an offer and feeling very guilty about leaving my manager in the shit. She has been super nice to me but the team and org setup have just been frustrating.

      I love one of the answers that gives specific language, have copied that to my notes. I really, really need to find a way to not spill all the beans when resigning; right now whatever I rehearse to say sounds as having a million criticisms (which I have! But it will not be a good convo if I tell them all of it).

      So I’ll be following this thread and hope you get some more good answers.

      And just because it’s easier to advise someone else than yourself: your boss will be sad you’re leaving but also happy for you that you’re going somewhere better!

    6. Stoppin' by to chat*

      Honestly, I think it’s good you are leaving this job. The way the manager has latched on to you does not sound professional. I get feeling guilty, but that manager has crossed a line with how much they confide in you/use you as a support person. That you know how stressed they are isn’t great. Hopefully they will be happy for your new job, but either way, I bet once you get some distance from this job, you will feel so much better!

  71. Ann O'Nemity*

    I got a new job in a university career center. I know these places can have a terrible reputation and I’m coming in hoping to make a real difference. So hit me with all your suggestions for transforming academic career services!

    1. Princess Flying Hedgehog*

      Meet with some academic representatives to find out more about what their students want/need! Some programs/colleges do a better job than others with preparing their students for a future career, so knowledge gaps really vary. Also, engage with student leadership to get feedback and suggestions directly from students. And don’t forget grad students! They need help, too.

      1. cubone*

        Yes! Student engagement is key. If you don’t have youth or community engagement experience, there are tons of tips and models if you google search either of those terms. At minimum, get feedback and communicate to those who provided it what changes you’re making as a result; if you can get there, co-developing programs or resources with students is both a great way to validate your work AND gives them valuable experiences. Also, make connections with colleagues in general student affairs and services, student experience, academic advising, etc. They may have knowledge, resources or experience you can lean on or work together on.

        Lastly, my experience with my university career centres was not good and it seemed to mostly come down to them being quite behind the times in terms of current research, best practices etc (like I got the “call to find out the hiring manager’s name” advice. That + the STAR method was really all they could offer me in terms of advice, and when they saw my resume was pretty much STAR already, they literally shrugged and said “I think you’re good then). All of this to say: practice what you preach and pursue your own continuing education/prof development/ways of staying on top of things! If you’re in a leadership role, prioritize this for your staff as well.

    2. Anonymous Koala*

      Help your students get more on the job training! Inform them about co-ops, research and create lists of paid internships for as many majors as possible, coach them to write real cover letters, and try and work with local employers to create programs and work-study opportunities in the community

    3. fueled by coffee*

      Congrats on the job! From my experience as a student who has since entered the workforce:

      *Make sure there is advice somewhere on when to remove high school achievements from a resume, and explaining the difference between, for example, your high school summer camp counselor job (keep it on until it becomes irrelevant due to your other work experience!) and playing on the high school basketball team (take it off after sophomore year of college or so). Same with SAT scores and other things that college students typically need to remove from their resumes at some point
      *Advice on *when* to apply for full-time employment following graduation! As a college senior, I had no idea that most entry-level jobs are not hiring in January for jobs that start in June. I watched all my friends who were business majors get recruited in the fall-winter, so I was freaking out about not getting any interviews — until April, when suddenly companies started being interested in me. Having some kind of resource with industry-specific hiring timelines would have been SO HELPFUL!

    4. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

      I work at a university where our career center does a great job connecting with employers and successful alumni. They partner with our alumni office and development team to make connections for students to learn what employers are really looking for in candidates, and to hear from alumni what their career paths looked like (which are often far from what you’d expect). They host a job board for summer jobs, have a bunch of really amazing structured internship programs, host career exploration days, and bring companies in to speak to groups of students interested in particular industry.

    5. ecnaseener*

      Steer clear of arbitrary requirements on the students, like making them make a website to “market themselves” or withholding resources until they’ve taken your resume advice. (I realize you’re not going to be running the place, but push back on those if you can!)

  72. Treats!*

    Has anyone ever done Halloween treat bags for coworkers?

    I’m a newish employee (2.5 months as of right now) and was thinking of making small treat bags with a couple snack foods, like individual packs of cookies, Pringles, pretzel sticks, etc. for my team. (My teammates sometimes skip lunch because they don’t have time between work and meetings, so I thought snacks might be more appreciated than candy). I have 12 teammates, and figure it would cost about $25 to do it, so pretty cheap.

    Me and my boss are in the office every day, but everyone else only comes in one or two days a week. I only get to interact with about half the team since they usually aren’t in the office and I mostly talk to the people that sit near me when they are in. I thought the treat bags would be a fun way to be friendly. (I’m shy and quiet, not bubbly and outgoing.)

    My friend thinks it’s a horrible idea, but couldn’t articulate why, except that if I do it this year I’ll have to do it every year. That doesn’t make sense, but I’m having doubts now. Maybe it would be childish or weird? This is my first job with a non-toxic/dysfunctional company, so I’m not sure what’s normal.

    1. Warrant Officer Georgiana Breakspear-Goldfinch*

      I love Halloween too, but no, I would not initiate doing this as a new employee, especially if you’re in a support role and/or a woman.

      1. Treats!*

        The whole team is actually women. But I am in a support role (I’m basically the lowest paid position), so I guess it might be weird in that way.

        1. Rusty Shackelford*

          It would be weird, and if I were paid more than you it would actually make me feel uncomfortable. Please don’t.

    2. Princess Flying Hedgehog*

      This really depends on office culture! In some places, this would be very welcome and appreciated. In other places, it would come off as weird and/or childish. I think only 2.5 months in is not enough time to assess how this would land.

      1. GigglyPuff*

        ^ I would wait a year, see how your office handles all the holidays and if you want to, do something next year. (But not if you’re the only woman like Warrant Officer says).

      2. Be kind, rewind*

        Agreed. At my last job, we worked nightshift, were a casual bunch, and were very food-motivated, so treat bags for Halloween would go over real well. My current job is a more typical office, and it would definitely have the chance of seeming childish.

    3. Actual Vampire*

      Why not put a bowl of candy on your desk? People might come to you to get some, or you could carry it to their desk and offer some. I think it’d be more low-key and less pressure on people who aren’t into treats.

      3. Paris Geller*

        +1. I wouldn’t do something as involved as making treat bags for your coworkers. I also love doing stuff like that, but especially when you’re new and in a support role, it can be a risky choice. However, I think having a candy dish or just bringing in some snacks (like those individual pretzel bags in halloween print or something like that) and having them available at your desk would be fine. It’s a little more lowkey but can be a friendly gesture and a conversation starter.

      4. Sparkles McFadden*

        Yes! Get a candy dish! I always had a candy dish and I used it all year long. There’s a fascinating dynamic around the candy dish. You can learn a lot by observing people around the candy dish. You get to see:

        …who is a stealth snacker (the person who hovers and waits until you walk away because he doesn’t want to be seen taking the candy)
        …who will bring in replenishment for the dish
        …who mocks people for their candy choices (I have found people who like dark chocolate try to shame the people who prefer milk chocolate)
        …who comes by just to take a break and say hello
        …who is the overly entitled office sociopath who complains when the candy dish is empty (“What? No candy? Why not?” I once answered “Because I saw you coming and emptied it.”)

        I am not terribly outgoing and I met lots of people just from having a bowl of chocolate or some Twizzlers or whatever. I had one boss whom I might never have spoken more than four words to except he’d come by every day for candy. It was worth a few dollars to learn as much as I did about everyone.

    4. Dark Macadamia*

      I think it’s a little… cutesy? It’s a very nice idea but more like something a boss would do for their reports, and depends on the work culture which you haven’t had time to become familiar with. And unfortunately, if you’re young and/or female it could undermine you by making people see you as The Snack Kid/Lady rather than a professional peer.

    5. Graciosa*

      Not a horrible idea, but a bad one and definitely not something you should be doing.

      Snacks for the office or as appreciation for the members are the team properly come from what I will loosely call higher-ups. Also, they have expense accounts to handle the cost which is properly borne by the company.

      Whether you’re thinking about it or not, you are now developing your professional reputation. Professionals are not spending their brainpower (or their money) putting together treat bags for the guests as if work was your birthday party and everyone there was under ten. You will develop a reputation for not understanding this, which does not bode well for your chances of promotion.

      Professionals who hit the managerial level should worry about morale of the team they manage, but the goal is never to create an environment where everyone is “friends.” Now that you are out of school, you are expected to (and would be wiser to) develop a private life separate from your professional life. There is nothing wrong with being friendly in the office and there is occasionally some crossover, but the goals of work should be more focused on getting the work done – preferably as efficiently as possible so everyone involved can go home to their families and actual friends. That is part of the reason socializing at work focuses on lunches and the occasional “happy hour” instead.

      This isn’t meant to be bleak – it is incredibly comforting to be able to vent about Chris-in-Accounting or Lee-the-Ridiculous-Temp to someone who is entirely on your side and will never wonder about your professionalism after getting promoted above you.

      I’d like to re-target your thinking to focus on two goals – the more you can think of them as separate and distinct, the better off you will be.

      Goal 1: Establish yourself with a positive reputation in your office. If you want to get promoted, kick ass on the work side. You should be helpful and friendly (which again, is not the same thing as being friends) to everyone, reserving the right to be merely professional with those who have caused you offense.

      Work versions of being friendly include asking SAFE questions of your co-workers without prying or embarrassing them, and then listening to the answers. “Did you have a good weekend / Do you have any interesting plans for the weekend?” is fine. “Did you finally score with that hot X you were chasing?” is not something that should ever be heard in the office.

      When someone tells you something in response, pay attention. “It was great – my son played his first varsity game” can lead to many future conversations. If the other person shares about their favorite sports team, you can ask how they’ve been doing or if that person is excited about the upcoming season without knowing (or caring) anything about the sport. Listening, making sympathetic noises, and remembering key interests will get you far. You get a lot of credit for being friendly from basic good manners.

      Do not ever share anything embarrassing or sensitive about another person (“The face lift looks great! Aren’t you glad you did it now that it’s all over?” is not something you share to bolster another staff member who just returned from what others may think was a vacation).

      A good listener with good boundaries who does her own job well and helps others is a gem. That’s the kind of a reputation that will help you.

      Goal 2: Develop friendships outside of work. It was common during our school years that our “work” environment was also the primary (or sole) source of our friendships. That’s no longer the case. There are lots of ways to develop friendships outside of work (adding friends of friends to our own circles, clubs or meet-ups with common interests, joining teams for informal play of a favorite sport, etc.). I won’t list them all, but again, if you reframe “shy and quiet” as “a great listener” you will go far.

      I hope this wasn’t too harsh, but I didn’t want you to make a significant faux pas so early on in a new job.

      Best wishes (from an experienced manager who was once “shy and quiet”),
      Graciosa

    6. Jean*

      I wouldn’t call it a HORRIBLE idea, but it is kind of try-hard. I get that you want your new coworkers to like you, but I would hold off on doing any big gifting type gestures like this until you have a better lay of the land, as far as office culture.

    7. anonymous73*

      Please don’t do this. I had a former co-worker who would give everyone homemade (something, I don’t remember) at Christmas, and I felt it was over the top. Put a bowl of candy on your desk or in a common area, and let everyone know it’s there for them to share.

    8. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

      Personally, I wouldn’t. I’ve had coworkers do this kind of thing and I don’t appreciate it (not that it bothers me, I just feel neutral about it) because I have food allergies and try to avoid sugar, so I usually have to throw away whatever they give me. As others have said, it does give off a “cutesy” vibe and makes the employee seem young. It also reminds me of the kind of forced bonding that I endured in college, so again, reads young. The exception is that I’ve had managers who will do these little gift bags for holidays or work celebrations, and that feels different because it’s coming from above, not peer/below.

      I would say sit this one out and see how your office handles holidays. You might be able to do a little something around the winter holidays, or you’ll have a better idea (and have a more established reputation) if you want to do something next Halloween.

    9. MissDisplaced*

      Some places do this all the time, some never, and some fall somewhere in between with people doing this on occasion. I don’t really see it as a right or wrong thing, either way but if you do so, I wouldn’t make a habit to do it for every single holiday.

      Plus: It is a fun and thoughtful thing to have snacks. Halloween is a fun holiday. It’s not a huge expense (though this depends if you can afford it). It can be fun to treat people you work with with the occasional box o’donuts or similar inexpensive treat.
      Minus: Some may feel obligated. Some may find Halloween childish. Some may still be wary to eat snacks from others because of Covid. Some very weird offices may not appreciate goodies because of feeling too tempted.

      If you do decide to do this, keep it simple! Maybe it’s something you could just bring in and put in the kitchen, at the reception desk, or some communal place with a little sign or decoration saying help yourself?

      Generally, I think it’s a nice gesture… but you know people have been much weirder about this stuff since Covid.

    10. aiya*

      yeah, agree with everyone else. it feels a little bit too cutesy and child-like. when you’ve only been there for less than 3 months, I don’t think this is the impression that you want to give. it’s possible that this is the kind of office where this is very commonplace, but wait it out. i also think it feels a bit strange when you’re not a manager, particularly if you’re in a low-level support role. if you do this as a manager, you’re showing a token of gratitude for the great work that your employees do for you. but when you do it as the lowest person on the totem pole (and the newest employee), it feels almost like you’re bribing* your new coworkers to like you?

      *bribe probably isn’t the most accurate word here, but nothing else comes to mind

    11. Treats!*

      Thank you for all the helpful replies! I’m glad I posted.

      I guess I thought it was a good idea because I’ve known people who did little gift bags of chocolate candies or homemade cookies for their teams around Christmas, so I was thinking it was equivalent to doing that. But I can see now that Halloween is considered a more childish holiday, and people might think it’s weird/uncomfortable/try-hard coming from someone who’s new and “under” them in the hierarchy. I will definitely not do any individual treat bags for the whole team. (I need to be able to spread out piles of documents on my desk, so I’m just not going to do the bowl of treats either, although I see why you guys suggested it.)

      1. A*

        As someone once said, what would a mediocre white man do?

        And that is, no treat bags, no candy dish, dress and act like your next role
        With all kindness,
        I have been the office admin and floor ‘mom’

      2. AcademiaNut*

        It really depends on whether it’s the culture of the office, and who is doing it. In some places, bringing in treats for coworkers is totally normal. In others, it’s something the boss might do. Watch over the course of a year – if it’s normal for your coworkers to give out individual gifts, then you can take your turn. If it’s not something that’s done, then as the most junior person it’s not something you should start.

        There’s also a big difference between bringing in a bowl of candy or a plate of cookies to share, and handing out individually wrapped presents. The first is not necessarily something you want to do as the most junior or newest employee (or as a woman in a male dominated field). The second is much more intense, and runs into a couple of problems. People who can’t use the present – diets, food restriction and the like – and will feel awkward about throwing it out. The expectation of reciprocity – feeling pressured to bring you a gift later. And the religious angle – some religions don’t celebrate Hallowe’en (Jehovah’s Witness, for example) – so giving a gift for a religious or religious adjacent holiday might not be received well.

    12. Miss Pantalones En Fuego*

      No. No offense intended but to me it comes across as a bit childish. There’s also the risk that this sets up an expectation that you will prepare or supply food to people for the rest of your time there.

  73. Using an alias today*

    When I gave my notice at my previous toxic higher ed employer, I didn’t address the toxicity in the exit interview with HR (no point), but I did implore them to do a salary review, as my position was underpaid by a HUGE amount, even by higher ed standards. My position’s finally been posted, and of course it’s at the same crappy salary. It took them a year to fill the position last time (I literally only ended up there because my previous position was eliminated and I was desperate), and I expect the same again. Not sure if I feel schadenfreude that they still suck, or bad because there are still good folks there, and it’s clear their lives aren’t getting any easier. But definitely feel good about not being there.

  74. Tom Servo's Sister*

    I’m having an issue with my job search, and I wondered if anyone has any advice. I’ve been applying to jobs where I have 75%-100% of the qualifications, but I tend to get interviews for the 75% jobs. I’m an ok interviewer, but in the end I don’t get an offer, and I figure they’ve got someone with more qualifications. For example, the last job I probably had 90% of what they listed, but at the interview it turned out there are some sticky management issues for this position. It came up in a question and when I asked about the biggest challenge for the position. So, I suspect they picked someone with more management experience, which is certainly what I would have done in their place.
    Do anyone have any thoughts on why the jobs I have every qualification for don’t call? Do I look over-qualified? I wonder if I’m not being as persuasive in my cover letter because I figure it’s clear from my resume that I can do the job.

    1. First Time Asking for a Raise*

      I don’t know if this is at all helpful, but I’m pretty sure 75% interview rate is quite good and not something you necessarily need to breakdown any further.

      2. PollyQ*

        I don’t think that’s what she’s saying, though — it sounds to me like she’s getting interviews for the roles where she meets 75% of the requirements more often than when she meets 90%+ of the requirements. Not that she’s getting interviews for 75% of the jobs she applies for.

    2. Princess Flying Hedgehog*

      IS it clear from your resume that you can do the job? Are you sure that the people reviewing your resume have the necessary knowledge to assess that you’re qualified? Are you expecting people to spend more time reading and analyzing your resume than people generally do?
      It could also be that your resume and cover letter are fine, but if a ton of people are applying for the same jobs you are, you may be facing stiffer competition than normal.

      1. Tom Servo's Sister*

        I customize the resume for each application so that I’m matching their keywords, and move things around to better match what they say they’re looking for. So, I think my resume is clear, but, of course, I’ll never know. I’m in a field with a lot of people, so you might be right about the competition.

    4. aiya*

      I think that’s a pretty black and white way of looking at job searching. Just because you match the desired experienced and qualities of the job description doesn’t mean you’ll get the job. If you’re a match, and your resume/cover letter demonstrates that, then you’ll probably get an interview. It’s during the interview where they’ll assess not only if you have the right qualifications that your resume claims you have, but also if your communication style and working style fit in with the office. There’s always going to be multiple great candidates in a job search, and sometimes all of you are qualified, but only one will be slightly more aligned with what the employer is looking for. It’s not like a test in school, where if you do well on 90/100 of the questions or check 9/10 required boxes, then you’re considered an A student. In this case, there really is only one A student, even if all the people who applied are capable of getting that A.

    5. RagingADHD*

      I would guess that the jobs you’re 75% qualified for are a bit more senior or more specialized, and they have a narrower candidate pool. So just mathmatically you have less competition.

  75. First Time Asking for a Raise*

    My one-on-one with my boss was delayed, so time for one more round of questions. I’ve decided to combine my performance/review asking for a raise with a second albeit very closely related issue of feeling disrespected and undervalued by my direct line of management. As an examples, my department has basically 5 different managers it it, but the other 4 have meetings on a regular basis and don’t include me. They tell me to my face that they appreciate my work, but they tend to forget I’m even around. When we all came back to the office after the initial lockdown our grandboss announced that he’d be coming around to say hello to everyone, and then he visited and spoke to everyone but me. The other day I wrote him to ask him a specific question about the 2022 budget that I’m working on, and I just found out today that he answered it, but he sent it to the other managers and didn’t include me, even though I’m the one that actually asked the question, and in fact needed the information since I’m the one that does the budget. I also just found out that he would be on vacation the rest of the month…I spoke to him twice a day this entire week, and I only found out yesterday he was gone when I got an out of office. It feels like they value me as a work horse, and not as a member of management. The assignments come, and I’ve basically got complete autonomy, but I’m left out of every discussion and decision until after the fact.

    This is important to me two main ways. First, I feel completely disrespected and taken advantage of, and that feeling is creating a great deal of anger and resentment that I’d like to dissipate. Secondly, career growth. There is little to no chance of me being able to move up at my current plant because we already redundant layer of management between me, my boss, and my grandboss, based on the structure of our new parent company, and my boss is my age, so he is highly unlikely to go anywhere, even if grandboss will be retiring in the next few years. I need to be involved in the broader scope of the department both so I know what’s going on and can manage my team affectively, but I need to have the opportunity to build relationships with our parent company counter parts for future career progression.

    The above two paragraphs is basically what I want to say to my boss. To spell out the problem as I see it, and how it is affecting me, and then offer as a solution including me in these regular meetings that I’m excluded from, and asking for regular one-on-ones with my boss and grandboss, and for more facetime with our counterparts. Is there anything particularly problematic about this approach?

    1. Sea Anemone*

      For the problem as you see it and how it affects you, I would focus on the work aspects. That is, the problem is that you are not included in work conversations. The way it impacts you is that you don’t receive crucial information and are therefore less effective in your job. Approach with a collaborative, problem-solving mindset, even if you don’t think they are acting in good faith. They might not be, but focussing on that will not get you where you want to go. Approach as though there is some minor oversight that is the barrier to including you in the regular meetings, and make your asks with the tone of “Of course we are all going to rectify these incredibly minor hiccups so we can all work together and sing kumbaya going forward!” You may have to practice your sincerity, but that tone will probably get you farther than letting the resentment you have built up leak through.

      1. First Time Asking for a Raise*

        That’s the plan, to try and cover the resentment, because I do really think a large portion of this is unintentional on their parts, that’s why I want to have the conversation. If I thought it was malicious I likely wouldn’t even try and discuss it. But I also partially do think it has to do with the new parent company, the redundancy of a management layer, and trying to hoard responsibilities. My basic plan is to start this off as a performance review, that way if they give me some feedback that indicates this behavior is due to a performance issue I can reassess exactly how I want to present the issue. So kind of based on how that discussion goes, I’ll move into this issue, followed at the end with my raise request, assuming everything goes down as I think it will.

  76. RosyGlasses*

    4 Day WorkWeek Study

    I’m currently researching what it would look like (and the pros/cons) of moving to a 4 day workweek for our small (under 50 EEs) company. I have quite a bit of research accumulated, but I’m curious about logistics for those folks that have had companies move to that from a traditional 5 day week. What worked best? What were pain points? If you were an employee – did you like it/see it as a perk? If you were in HR or management – what would you do differently?

    I’ll be pitching this to our partners shortly, and any data or anecdotal stories would be great!

    (please note, I am not proposing a compressed workweek (4/10s), but moving to 32-36 hours)

    1. introverted af*

      So this isn’t exactly the same, but last summer my non-profit forced everyone to take Friday off and either use PTO or go unpaid to cut down PTO balances. Given that context it wasn’t received amazingly, but I think people were mostly understanding. We were also operating pretty slowly (we’re in fundraising so with both no in-person visits and putting a hold on a lot of activity to try to be sensitive, it really was slow) and given the overall pressures of the pandemic I think some people appreciated not having to put on a front like they worked an additional day. Obviously though, can’t really fault anyone for the grumbles they did have about going unpaid.

      Personally, I had the PTO that I was able to be fully paid and I really enjoyed it. I continued that reduced schedule for about 3 months after with a cut in pay, and it made my life so much easier. I definitely did see it as a perk overall and would be ecstatic to hear about it in a new job. I only went back to a full 40 hours because we had some staffing shortages and I picked up additional duties to help cover things while we had a hiring freeze. I also would be really interested in having the flexibility to float that day off and either work five 6hr days or move it around occasionally as needed for other obligations. That would also allow you to have coverage for any external contact you need, but not put anyone out.

      Best of luck – hope this works out for you!

    2. Ali G*

      There was a really great program about this on NPR a few weeks back. It provided some great resources – I would look that up. We considered it, but already work a 35 hour work week so decided to leave it for now. We now are allowed to flex our schedules so we Fridays are permanently half days, which is nice!

    3. Mr. Cajun2core*

      Not quite exactly the same but one place I worked we worked 9 hour days and had every other Friday off. Half the the team had one Friday off and the rest of the team had the other Friday off.

      Pros:
      Could get doctor and other appointments done on those Fridays. Could take less annual leave. I was getting married, moving cross country, and job searching at the time, so that was very helpful with the wedding planning, moving planning, and job searching.

      Cons:
      At first it was very hard to get used to working 9 hours on a regular basis. Often that last hour was very rough. I was probably not the best employee during that last hour, especially on the Fridays I worked. However, I did get accustomed to it.

      Sometimes, just like taking any leave coming back after a 3 day weekend, my inbox and tasks list may have been longer than if I had just a regular weekend when our customers were also not working.

      I had church events in the evening. Those days were rushed as I had to leave work, grab a bite to eat quickly, and then make it to church.

      I only worked this schedule for a few months so I am sure there are some other pros and cons that I didn’t experience.

    4. Sparkles McFadden*

      I worked a three- or four-day work week (35 hours/week) for years and loved it. It saved some commuting costs and I got so much more done with three (or four) days away from the workplace. I think how your employees feel about it will likely depend on things like this:

      – Whether they are still considered full time with benefits.
      – Whether they are exempt or non exempt and how OT is calculated for non-exempt people (and do they get any kind of differential pay of they work past a certain hour?)
      – How the days worked are chosen. (As in, who gets Monday off, who gets Friday off, does anyone have a split schedule where they get mid-week days off, do you rotate etc.)
      – How vacation is accrued and how vacation requests are handled. This gets sticky when people are normally off on Mondays and then Monday is a company holiday. Do those people get a day to use at another time or not? Someone is always unhappy about this either way.

    5. Gracely*

      I would absolutely love that. I work faster than a lot of my peers, and if I could just not come in for one day a week, I would still get all of my work finished, and I’d be able to use that extra day to schedule doctor appointments, etc. without using up my sick leave. It would be a huge perk for me.

      If I were in management, the main concern I’d have would be if coverage is needed; if that’s not a concern, then the other thing I could see someone worrying about is if every employee really is able to get their work done in that reduced time. If that’s a deep concern, it might be worth easing into it with a half day for like a month to see how slower employees cope, and then go to a full day.

    7. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

      I’m glad to see you clarified that you’re looking at reducing a day’s worth of hours, not just consolidating 40 hours into 4 days. As a working parent, working longer hours to have one day off wouldn’t work at all for my schedule or childcare, so that would be a huge drawback for me. Something my current org does is allow people to flex their hours as they see fit, so I have colleagues that work 4/10, 4/9s and a half day on Friday, and a normal 5 day schedule. That might be an alternative if the 4 day workweek doesn’t work out?

    8. pancakes*

      I feel like I’ve been seeing a lot about this lately, so I suggest looking closely at the hits for “four day work week” in the Google News tab. I see there’s a BBC article that looks helpful, and that links to something about the big study that came out of Iceland. It’s titled “The case for a shorter workweek.” A paragraph from it about that study:

      “One high-profile study in Iceland, conducted from 2015 to 2019, followed more than 2,500 government workers across diverse workplaces that went from 40-hour weeks to either 35 or 36-hour weeks with the same pay. The researchers found that the majority of offices saw productivity either remained the same, or even improved. For example, in the Reykjavík accountancy department, workers processed 6.5% more invoices once they started working fewer hours; at a police station, meanwhile, the shorter workweek didn’t negatively affect the number of investigative cases closed.”

      It looks like there is a study in Scotland as well, and several articles about particular companies that have experimented with it.

    9. Worker bee*

      This isn’t quite the same thing, but due to covid, my work made schedule adjustment to limit the number of people in the building, with some success. We have around 30 people in the office and we expanded the hours the office was open during that time. At one point, they said they’d be willing to keep the office open on the weekends, if people were interested.

      When we were told we’d have to make adjustments, there were a fair amount of angry people. Several people refused to make any changes and insisted on working 8-5, M-F and were furious when they thought they’d have to change in any way. A couple liked coming in at 6-7 am and leaving early. One coworker started out WFH, hated it, so she would come in at 7, worked 10 hour days, and took Fridays off.

      I had the most varied schedule. I was only in the office two days a week, but would come in late in order to stay late. Even though management said the office would be open until 7-8 pm, I was the only one who was taking them up on that, so they ended up giving me a key.

      Earlier this year, we transitioned back to everyone being back in the office, with regular 8-5 hours. The people who were coming in early and leaving late were annoyed, but didn’t make much of a fuss. The woman who came in early and took off Fridays was, and still is, livid.

      I can see you getting pushback from people who want their M-F routine. If people regularly fill up a 40 hour week, they may get very stressed to get their hours cut. One of my coworkers is constantly complaining that she can’t get her work done in 40 hours. I should mention that most of my office are hourly employees, even those in management positions, so people who are hourly would be justifiably upset to have a reduction in pay.

      This particular coworker would lose her mind if her hours were reduced and would either demand a raise to match what she had been making or likely look for another job. That said, this particular coworker is not very computer savvy and refuses to learn any tricks to be more efficient, so she would see a reduction in hours as more stress and setting her up for failure.

      For me personally, what we did last year reinforced that I work best with a flexible schedule. 8-5 doesn’t work for me at all. 9-6 or 10-7 is when I’m in the zone in the workplace. If I had the option to WFH one day a week, I’d have the perfect schedule. Just to illustrate that point, I was in the middle of something yesterday at 5, but I had something going on after work, so I couldn’t stay late.

      Since I’m not allowed to WFH anymore, I had to leave things at a terrible stopping point and that’s going to bug me all weekend. If I were allowed to WFH, I would have brought the stuff home, finished it up and would have been able to relax, since I’d be able to hit the ground running on Monday.

  77. Queen of the Winter Fae*

    I’m beyond frustrated with work right now. Lots of changes going on in my small department, all of which negatively effect me and provide no benefits. I can get no information from management other than this is how it is for the foreseeable future. These changes are things that absolutely will cause me to look elsewhere, but it’s a niche industry. I threw my hat into the ring for a position in another department and hoping that pans out. Please send me good vibes.

  78. Rey*

    My boss told me yesterday that I did not get the promotion. They hired an external candidate instead who already does the same work. I took the rest of the day off, but I’m back at work today and just trying to show everyone that I can be professional/not weird or awkward about the whole thing. These positions only come up every 3-5 years, so it’s probably time for me to start looking at outside jobs and see what I can find.

    1. Elle*

      Dang, that sucks. Props to you for handling it so professionally though. I think anyone in your shoes would be pretty disappointed, but you’re doing the right thing. Sometimes we need to look externally for our next step.

    2. WellRed*

      That sucks. If they hire from outside, fine but they do risk losing employees. Go forth and search for better!

  79. RandomUser (UK)*

    Grateful for any advice – I have an interview next week where I need to give a presentation on why I’m the “most suitable person” for the job, Have never done this so would love to hear if anyone has done and any tips

    1. Princess Flying Hedgehog*

      Say what? Practically speaking, you can’t possible know if you’re the most suitable person for the job, since you don’t know who the other candidates are! It’s the hiring manager and hiring committee’s job to assess the candidates and decide who is the most suitable — and some of that assessment requires inside knowledge of the culture, office structure, and the roles and responsibilities of the job.
      However, you can present on why you’re an excellent fit for the job.
      But TBH I think this is stupid, and maybe an orange flag. If everything else you’ve seen and found out looks good, I would perhaps chalk this off as a one-off lapse in judgement, but if you’ve seen other signs of laziness, inexperience, or a desire to latch onto trendy/newfangled ideas without critical thought, then I think you need to do some serious thinking as to whether this job is the “most suitable” for you.

      1. RandomUser (UK)*

        Thanks for the wise words – I agree it does sound silly on surface, but I’ve seen a few green flags from this team in the past, so I’m not too worried, and they’ve given me the job spec, so I have something to go off!

        1. irene adler*

          Are you allowed to contact the hiring manager – prior to this presentation- and ask a few questions?
          If so, might ask hiring manager what they are looking for in a candidate.
          Or, a few other open-ended questions about what things the prior employee did that they’d like to see the new candidate continue? And, what things separate the good from the great in performing this job?
          Get ’em talking and glean some insights on how to focus this presentation.
          Otherwise, this seems like a fruitless endeavor. You guess what they want to know about you, and they decide if you hit the mark.

    2. ecnaseener*

      I would just ignore the word “most” and present on what makes you a very suitable candidate. Similar to what you would say in a cover letter.

      (No advice from me on the presentational aspect, luckily I haven’t had to do that)

  80. SurlyGirl*

    Does anyone have strategies or suggestions for disentangling self-esteem from work performance? I’m having a hard time not internalizing negative (even if it’s constructive!) feedback. I’m in therapy, but would be interested in hearing others’ thoughts.

    For context, I’m in my mid-late 20s and have a Master’s degree, but still consider myself fairly new to the working world. I’ve been out of school (and working) for at non-profits for 4 years and this is my second job.

    Thanks!

    1. Actual Vampire*

      What’s your life like outside of work? Some good self-esteem advice I’ve gotten is that it’s important to have “multiple identities”: work, hobbies, relationships, etc. The more you identify with one aspect of your life, the more your self esteem will suffer when you (inevitably) struggle in that arena.

    2. Nethwen*

      I like to say “I work as a X” not “I am a X.”

      That reinforces the truth that I have roles and interests outside of work; work is not my full identity or purpose for existence.

    3. anonymous73*

      Honestly you ARE new to the working world. Maybe not brand new, but 4 years is not that long to have been working. Take your negative feedback as a learning experience. And give yourself a break – we’re human, we mess up (even when we’re experienced) and that’s how we learn to do better.

    5. RagingADHD*

      The best advice I ever got about self-esteem is that self-esteem flows out of self-efficacy. If you try to deal with self-esteem directly, it rarely makes much difference because your cognitive dissonance gets in the way.

      You get more gains by working on self-efficacy. You can build self-efficacy directly by looking at things you have accomplished and acknowledging that they were difficult or required change and growth; by setting yourself challenging (but not impossible) short-term tasks and goals that will give you a sense of accomplishment, and so forth.

      So in the situation of uncomfortable or distressing constructive feedback, maybe you can play a game with yourself where (just for a day, or an hour) you don’t actually try to change how you feel about the feedback or about yourself. Instead, you’ll only focus on coming up with, say, 5 practical ways to put that feedback to use. Nothing about what you think or feel goes on the list. You can write out all your thoughts and feelings on a separate paper if you want to, but the list must only contain actions.

      And then reward yourself for making that list.

      And reward yourself again every time you actually do one of the things on the list.

      And periodically, look back to see the cumulative difference those changes made. And reward yourself.

      So you’re creating a little positive loop for yourself. Does that make sense?

    6. Worker bee*

      For me, I internalize negative feedback more harshly based on who it’s coming from. There are some people within my company that, when I receive negative feedback or corrections, I can’t let it go and I’ve realized that’s because I have a negative view of that person; I don’t like their management style or just don’t care for them as a person.

      Anyway, for me, if I respect the person and it’s a casual conversation, I know that the reason for the conversation is to address an issue so I can grow as an employee, rather than it just be to discipline me. If you’re getting constructive criticism from someone you respect, don’t stay silent. Walk them through what you did and then ask them what they’d do.

      Most of my career has been working with the public and most of my corrections have been related to customers who weren’t happy that I wasn’t authorized to do something. So, during the correction, I’ll ask if I am allowed to do X and if I’m not, who is.

      Asking those questions has helped me so much. You still get that “I screwed up” feeling, but you also have a plan for the future, which is empowering and makes it less personal. There are few things more anxiety causing in the workplace than being stuck on X and having no one to ask about X.

      I would also recommend cultivating working relationships with people at all levels. When I first started at my job, I made plenty of mistakes and it caused me so much anxiety. I’d have to alert someone else to my mistake and it would be on me to fix it. I felt like such a moron and sometimes it would ruin my day or weekend.

      Seven years later, I still make mistakes. The difference is that I have the knowledge and confidence to correct those mistakes and I also know that making a mistake isn’t going to cost me my job. I also know who to call if I have questions and I have no anxiety about calling.

  81. baroncorbin*

    Got a new job that is really horrible. Low pay, broken equipment, and bad product. The place is dead we won’t get customers to come and eat for hours. Or any kind of orders. My boss keeps saying this weird phrase. “I don’t set you up for failure” Does it mean he is?

    2. Jean*

      Sounds like he’s trying (probably in vain) to convince himself that his business isn’t failing. Start looking for another job now.

      1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

        Yeah, my thought exactly. When he tells you “I don’t set you up for failure”, he’s really talking to himself.

    3. Generic Name*

      “Great! Tell me how you’re setting me up for success!” Ok, maybe not, but I’d start job searching.

  82. KoiFeeder*

    Here’s a doozy!

    I TA a class, as part of my scholarship requirements. While grading papers, one of the students discussed his personal reasons for his interest in writing an essay about Wallaby Gardening and, well, he’s definitely not tethered to reality. Think “aliens are leaving crop circles to direct us to the hollow earth entrances and I know this because my aunt who went missing was abducted by them and is sending me this information via a special dowsing rod” except an entire paragraph of completely sincere explanation of this subject.

    What the hell do I do with this? I can’t suggest that he seek counseling, that would be an incredible overstep. I can’t tell the counseling center to reach out to him either, because he doesn’t seem like he’s going to hurt himself or others. And honestly, if it had just been “aliens exist and abducted my aunt” or “dowsing is real and it works” I wouldn’t really care that much. But all of this is setting off alarm bells.

    (Also, a lot of these theories end up getting really antisemetic. I don’t think anything he’s said hit that line yet, but what if he starts getting into that sort of stuff? I think I could probably get away with going to the dean over “hilary clinton is harvesting adenochrome from mole children in the new york sewer system,” but does talking about lizard people qualify?)

    1. Princess Flying Hedgehog*

      Can you take this to the professor of record? Do you trust the professor to handle this in an appropriate manner, without under- or over-reacting? Is there another professor you could talk to for advice and guidance?

      1. KoiFeeder*

        The professor of record is the one handling a full load of the classes in the department that would’ve gone to adjuncts this semester. I can and already have flagged it, but she’s putting out so many fires that I don’t know if she’ll ever read my email, much less check in with me about it. I get the impression that I would be directed to ask the professor of record about how to deal with the situation if I reached out to others in the department (though I’m autistic so it’s anyone’s guess if I’m picking up on the social cues correctly).

    2. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      I’d first eliminate the possibility that he’s yanking your chain. This sounds exactly like the kind of thing a bored or belligerent college student would pull, especially if he thinks he can intimidate you.

      1. KoiFeeder*

        It wasn’t intimidating. Assuming everything he wrote was sincere, it’s really just sad. And deeply concerning, but not because I think he’s particularly dangerous or anything.

        1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

          Oh, I don’t mean that the paper was intimidating. I mean that the student thinks he can con you into a long-running prank, and you’ll be too timid to recognize it or to call him out on it. And given that you said above that you’re autistic, I am really worried that this is the case.

          In some ways, it’s just as concerning as a student who honestly believes in the alien abduction mole people.

          1. KoiFeeder*

            That seems like a really weird prank to pull. “Haha, you believed me when I told you that I sincerely believed in the mole people!” I don’t think anyone would gain anything by that.

            1. RagingADHD*

              You underestimate the lengths some people will go to (especially college-age guys) to pull a prank.

              And/or the lengths a budding fiction writer will go to in order to try out some material and see how “the audience” reacts.

              This Venn diagram has a large overlap.

              1. KoiFeeder*

                I guess I am, but I’m not sure what he would gain from this, especially since my essay feedback just politely ignored the mole aliens. If his life is so unfulfilling that me asking bemused questions of the undergraduate Marsupial Arts advisors makes him feel like he gained something, I think I’d pity him more than anything else!

                1. pancakes*

                  People do all sorts of things they don’t necessarily gain anything by, even people in perfectly fine mental health.

            2. SnappinTerrapin*

              I think it was John Q. Adams who seriously considered opening diplomatic relations with the mole people. I don’t remember all the details, though.

          2. Observer*

            I was wondering about that. But the thing is that if he DOES get called on it, he’s going to have a really bad time explaining it. “I was just trying to prank the TA” is not likely to be an explanation that either the professor or record or anyone in the administration is going to take to, I think.

            Even if they are awful people. Because they need the TA’s to be able to handle these papers. When a student does stuff like this, it makes it impossible.

            1. KoiFeeder*

              Well, also, we haven’t had adjuncts since last spring semester so the TAs are doing a lot of extra work so that the teachers aren’t trying to formulate lectures, teach class, hold office hours, and grade for 5+ classes all at once. It is nice to feel valued.

    4. Charlotte Lucas*

      You might look into your school’s rules. When I was a TA, we definitely could discuss the counseling center & suggest (as kindly as possible) that a student might want to talk to someone. A lot of schools will have some info about how to have the conversation. And if a referral came from faculty (including TAs), the student would get priority to be seen.

      1. KoiFeeder*

        I may loop in the counseling center regarding a student if they are a danger to themselves or others, or if I have reason to believe they are in danger (suicidal ideation in an essay or discussion of a current abusive situation were two scenarios listed, but it’s basically the godzilla threshold of “is someone going to be hurt or die”), and I am allowed to refer the student to the counseling center (or the disability office) if they are at risk of failing the class due to mental health problems. This does not qualify for either scenario- if the student starts being racist/antisemetic I’m going to the dean rather than flunking him, and as previously stated he doesn’t come across as dangerous.

    5. Anonymous Koala*

      When I was a TA we had a TA coordinator who’s job it was to help us deal with stuff like this and determine whether something needs to be flagged for counseling. If you have someone like that, I would go to them. Otherwise does your university counseling services have walk in or office hours? You could go to them and explain the situation.
      If those aren’t options and your professor isn’t doing anything, I would let it go. It’s sad but this is 1000000% above your pay grade and there’s a limit to what you can do at your level.

      1. Actual Vampire*

        This is a good point. When I was in graduate school I went to my university counseling center for help dealing with a classmate who seemed untethered to reality. Their response was that it was ultimately none of my business, which wasn’t the advice I was looking for, but was correct.

    6. Tom Servo's Sister*

      If you can’t go to the professor, what about the department chair? The other person I would talk to is the department secretary. When I was an adjunct and TA, I found them to be very helpful. They know tend to know more about the working of a university than the faculty do, and they might have heard of something similar happening before.

      1. Reba*

        Agree that asking the admin who to ask might be a great way to go (if they are competent, kind, and long-tenured, they will have seen it all).

        Director of Undergraduate Studies was the person I took teaching issues to when I was a TA and instructor of record, i.e. there was no professor directly supervising me. And this issue strikes me as one to take to the DGS, undergraduate advisor in the department, or similar role outside of the grading chain, because it isn’t exactly about their course performance. And more to the point it sounds like the prof here won’t step in.

        KoiFeeder, this is a tough spot and you are kind to care about this student.

        I haven’t seen your campus rules ofc but I do feel that “paranoid-conspiracy-tinged total break from reality” counts as danger.

    7. just a random teacher*

      Do you think it’ll interfere with his ability to understand the material and pass the course? That’s kind of the first question for “academic problem” versus “student support services problem”. If a student was super excited to be learning about writing proofs because they think that secret societies dating back to the ancient Greeks exist and use them for evaluating new members, that’s untethered from conventional reality but shouldn’t interfere with their ability to turn in valid proofs on the assigned theorems in the course and understand the key points of proof writing. (It will probably interfere with their ability to make friends in the math department, but that’s not seen as an issue to be addressed by instructors at the college level like it would be in k-12.)

      It kind of comes down to if it won’t impact his ability to pass the course, and it isn’t the kind of mental health issue that you can refer elsewhere, it’s not your job to reconnect students to reality so there are limits to how much you can do since he’s an adult. (Alerting the professor is a solid move, but if they don’t do anything I don’t know that you need to come up with things to try on your own.)

      If his beliefs will make it difficult to pass the course because they will cause him to give incorrect answers (creationist taking a course on evolution would be the classic example here), you need to make it clear that he can hold any opinions he wants, but he needs to show that he understands the course content, so he needs to be able to answer questions and complete assignments with responses that show that understanding even if he disagrees with it.

      If his beliefs will cause him to give answers you will find deeply offensive while grading, that’s another problem but much trickier. I have no good advice there. I chose subjects with a lack of those kinds of issues on purpose because I didn’t want to deal with it.

      1. KoiFeeder*

        No, not really. So far nothing has been offensive, just kind of alarming (in a harmless sort of way- again, I’m not concerned that anyone’s in any danger, but it’s definitely A Lot). Your example of a student excited to be learning about something because they think it’s relevant to ancient secret societies is close to what seems to be going on here (wallaby gardening is only tangentially related to crop circles, but they both involve crops).

        I do know that I’m going right up the chain if he starts being deeply offensive. He can explain things to the higher power of the college if he wants to be like that.

      2. Miss Pantalones En Fuego*

        When I was doing my MA in archaeology I had a guy in my cohort who was a firm believer in ancient aliens etc. and would frequently bring it up in class. However, when it came to doing a class presentation he did it on the normal subject matter with only a hint of “some people say that it’s really aliens”. Later on I worked with him in the field and he was at least as competent as anyone else, although he did like to regale us all with his extensive knowledge of Von Däniken and friends while we were working.

        So I guess I’d agree that if they can demonstrate that they know the actual material then I’m not sure there’s a whole lot you can do. It’s alarming that some people are completely invested in conspiracy theories but it’s also far more common than many of us would like to think.

    8. fueled by coffee*

      Does this student have an academic advisor (at my university, freshmen are assigned one by the school, and then when they select a major they get a different in-major advisor)? They probably have the ability to loop in the student’s instructors in other courses and see whether they might have observed similar strange behavior. That might be a way of putting this on the radar of someone who can actually do something about it, without necessarily getting counseling services involved. (For example, I was once contacted by a student’s advisor because the student had been chronically absent from a different course — I noted that the student had been present in my class, which turns this from a ‘is this student in crisis?’ question into a ‘this student is skipping math class’ question).

      Like you’ve said, if it’s just this one harmless but strange belief, you (meaning the university collectively) can probably just shrug it off as a ‘weird thing that happened in class once’ thing, and possibly a ‘this student is trying to play a prank’ thing. If other instructors also have concerns about this student, though, that might be a sign that more serious intervention is needed, but otherwise I think it’s above your pay grade.

      1. KoiFeeder*

        They almost certainly do, but due to the nature of this class it may not be one of the Marsupial Arts advisors, who are the only ones I know how to contact offhand.

    9. pancakes*

      I’m not sure I agree that you shouldn’t ask the counseling center to reach out to him just because he doesn’t seem like a physical danger to himself or others. It sounds like he might be having a psychotic break with reality, which is a good enough reason to try to get him some support by my standards.

    10. At a University Where Pieces Were NOT put together*

      Can you go to the Dean of Students? Or does your university have a Threat Assessment organization? I know you said that it was not threatening, but you do not necessarily have the expertise to know that. Either the Dean of Students or Threat Assessment will hopefully have a broader picture of how this student is acting in other classes and in other settings.

      1. At a University Where Pieces Were NOT put together*

        And this is dancing all over my triggers, since a TA approached me about a student writing disturbing things in an undergraduate sociology class. I told her to report it to the professor of record and nothing was done.

        I have always felt a personal stain of inaction with some of the resulting blood and death. No one else knows aside from me and the TA, but I know that I was one of the pieces of information that were not put together to prevent the resultant tragedy.

  83. Mr. Cajun2core*

    Not quite exactly the same but one place I worked we worked 9 hour days and had every other Friday off. Half the the team had one Friday off and the rest of the team had the other Friday off.

    Pros:
    Could get doctor and other appointments done on those Fridays. Could take less annual leave. I was getting married, moving cross country, and job searching at the time, so that was very helpful with the wedding planning, moving planning, and job searching.

    Cons:
    At first it was very hard to get used to working 9 hours on a regular basis. Often that last hour was very rough. I was probably not the best employee during that last hour, especially on the Fridays I worked. However, I did get accustomed to it.

    Sometimes, just like taking any leave coming back after a 3 day weekend, my inbox and tasks list may have been longer than if I had just a regular weekend when our customers were also not working.

    I had church events in the evening. Those days were rushed as I had to leave work, grab a bite to eat quickly, and then make it to church.

    I only worked this schedule for a few months so I am sure there are some other pros and cons that I didn’t experience.

    1. Mr. Cajun2core*

      Was a question deleted? This was supposed to be in response to a question but I can’t find it anymore.

  84. Lady Lynn Waterton of Bellashire*

    How easy is it for teachers to move into other careers?

    I’ve taught science for a few years now and while it’s not my dream, I like it and am good at it. I’m not burnt out and could envision myself doing it for another 5-10…but not forever. I always wanted to really work in science directly (worked with museums, zoos, etc) or in academia but didn’t find a specific path that made sense with where my husband would be working and I didn’t feel like I was very good at research as an undergrad. I worry that when I am finally done teaching, I will just look like a teacher to any other company. Yes, there are transferable skills, but we all know a school is not a normal workplace. I’d rather not have an entry-level job when I’m 35 and I’d rather not go back to school that far down the line (just personal preference). So I kind of feel like I need to change careers sooner rather than later, but I don’t really know what I’d rather do.

    What do I do with myself?! Sorry, vague, I know. Happy to answer any clarifying questions if anyone is so inclined to give me advice. Thank you!

    1. MisgenderedAndSickOfIt*

      I think it’s possible to be able to move into another career, it just may take some work. I went from customer service to recruiting and that was doable; it took me about 3 months of applying. I think learning new skills and customizing your cover letter(s) are the best way to go. Good luck!

    2. Paris Geller*

      Considering how many people I know who use to be teachers and are now in a variety of jobs, I don’t think it’s by any means an impossible task!

    3. Elle*

      Keep in mind that zoos and museums are both incredibly competitive and also have a reputation for low pay. You probably already know that. Perhaps a volunteer capacity would scratch your itch while also possibly getting your foot in the door when the time comes?

      1. Lady Lynn Waterton of Bellashire*

        Yes, so that’s part of the reason why I left that work. I’m not necessarily trying to go back to that. Really, I’d rather something more technical but I have no idea what that would be :(

        1. Elle*

          Well, if I could be so bold…..my field of animal nutrition has a number of people that came from the zoo world and it’s very technical. We have research people, technical experts, formulation people (technical but doesn’t require an advanced degree), marketing people, etc. We do pet, some exotic, livestock, backyard chickens, etc, etc. The most helpful degree for getting into this field would be a Masters in Animal Nutrition, which are very commonly paid through research/assistantships so they shouldn’t cost much if you can afford to do school full-time.

          1. Lady Lynn Waterton of Bellashire*

            That’s very interesting. The issue (to add to the others) is I can’t easily move to a new place unless it is specifically for a job – so not for school necessarily. Maybe I could do something online.

            I don’t need to know your personal information, but to help me understand this field a little more, what are some companies other than like the standard pet food (Purina, etc)?

            1. Elle*

              Well, the brand Purina is owned by three different companies: Cargill, Land O’Lakes and Nestle depending on what country you are in and what specie the food is for — I’ve worked for two of them. Cargill and Land O’Lakes are definitely the two biggest players in the USA that have the broadest specie reach. I’m definitely more in the livestock side than the pet food side personally so I’m sure there are players in Pet that I don’t know. Mars is big in pet food. Alltech and ADM are more big players on the livestock side. There is a really expanding marketplace right now for the “hobby farm” feed business, which is my current focus. Horses, backyard chickens, goats, beef cows, llamas, etc. Land O’Lakes has the Mazuri brand which is specifically catered to exotics.

    4. Unkempt Flatware*

      Former teacher here. I easily moved into the nonprofit world then slid into state government work handling funding for human service orgs. I love it. Check out your state’s dept of education jobs. You’d be surprised at what you find.

    6. Lady Lynn Waterton of Bellashire*

      To add on, I really don’t want to stay in education. I like teaching, but what I like about it is that I get to talk science. I love the kids for sure, but I’m really not interested in other parts of education. I just get tired of talking about science when I’d rather *do* it.

      I know it’s not often the case and is a very reductive saying, but for me, it was true “If you can’t do, teach.”

      1. Unkempt Flatware*

        Oh good to know! I hope there’s more funding for the sciences in this administration. My partner is an alternative energy researcher and engineer. He has contracts around the region. One is working for a major University and one is for an energy non-profit. It helps to ask these questions to open your mind to the possibilities. Don’t discount internships either. That’s how I made my big move with success. I hated teaching so so deeply that I cringe when anyone says “…can’t do, teach”. I’d rather be a dishwasher for the rest of my life than a teacher. But I’m glad you don’t hate it as deeply.

      2. Imtheone*

        If you have an undergraduate major in a science, you could look into lab assistant jobs at a university. Then, if you like it, you might need to (gradually) get a master’s

  85. MisgenderedAndSickOfIt*

    I’m constantly being misgendered at work. I use they/them pronouns. One coworker has flat-out refused to use them (not verbally) and is just not using any pronouns at all after being spoken to by either her boss or HR (I took it to my boss, who moved it to HR). Another one actually does try pretty hard – no complaints about her. I finally told the last coworker today, and her response was simply to ask what that meant, then ‘why’… that was not fun. A fourth coworker seems to be trying but I can’t tell. Any suggestions? I’m trying to be patient since I know it’s not common – but I know they’d put up a huge stink if I started using he/him pronouns instead of they/them….

    1. Reba*

      I’m so sorry that they are being this way.

      And, sorry if you have already done a search — there have been a few recent letters on this issue, mostly from managers’ perspectives i.e. not the person directly affected, but you might glean some ideas from the responses and discussions on those. There’s also an ask-the-readers post, “how do I change to “they” pronouns at work?” There was one letter from a coworker who got their boss to schedule an in-service training on it.

      Was your boss receptive and helpful when you had this discussion (good on you for raising it with them). Like, do you think you could go back to the boss and say “I appreciate the steps you took after I raised the issue about Lucinda, but I’m still not being treated politely by her. Are there further steps that could be taken to get the whole team on the same page here?”

    2. Zephy*

      Treating your coworkers respectfully is part of the job, and that means referring to people the way they want to be referred to. Just like it wouldn’t be OK to give a coworker a nickname apropos of nothing, it’s not OK to misgender people. You’ve told people how you want to be addressed, you can’t make it any easier for them. Is it awkward at first if you aren’t used to it? Yes, but you know what, you’re all adults and I think you’ll survive. If the refusing coworker just has to use your name all the time when referring to you, okay, that’s the hill that person has chosen to die on, that’s no skin off your nose.

    3. Elle*

      Hello! Fellow they/them here. I mostly gave up on correcting people. The only advice I have is, find a link with an explanation of they/them pronouns that you can hyperlink in your signature or just keep it so you can direct anyone with questions to it.

      1. HonestQ*

        I just sat through an online pronoun training session for work. While it did a great job with definitions and why this is so important, it did not offer any practical advice for how to verbally address a coworker who goes by other than the traditional pronouns. I’m sorry if I sound dense. When I talk directly to a coworker, I say “name” or “you”

        1. LizB*

          Can you give some examples of sentences or dialogues where you’re having trouble figuring out how to use the correct pronouns? I’m happy to give practical advice.

        2. Elle*

          Yep, that’s correct! Pronouns such as they/them are replacing he/him or she/her. They aren’t replacing names or second person pronouns like “you”. Whenever you would say “This is Elle, [he] works in animal nutrition” you say “they” instead of “he”.

          “Elle just arrived. I wonder why they’re early today?”

          “Hi Elle, I saw you got here early today. What’s up?”

          “Elle told me they got dropped off by their husband because their car is at the shop, that’s why they were so early.”

        3. Hlao-roo*

          Yes, when talking directly to a coworker in one-on-one situations, “[name]” or “you” are great. But if you’re in a meeting with more than two people, situations come up where I could reasonably say “yes, HonestQ sent me their [or “her” or “his”] project files” while you’re sitting in the room.

          Another situation (that happened to me recently) is I was working with a coworker on a project and we were documenting action items. On of the items on the list was “Hlao-roo to complete her action items.” If you were having the meeting with MisgenderedAndSickOfIt, the correct way to write that would be “MisgenderedAndSickOfIt to complete their action items.”

    4. Haha Lala*

      Do you have any understanding coworkers that would stick up for you? You could ask them directly to make a point of correcting the awful coworkers, so that you don’t have to deal with the confrontation or any follow up questions…

      It sucks that you have to deal with this, and I hope you’re surrounding by much more supportive people outside of work!

  86. Not My Money*

    Does anyone know how to create an anonymous spreadsheet/survey for people to share salary information?

    1. ecnaseener*

      Make a google sheet (under a throwaway google account if you don’t want people to know you’re the organizer) and make it publicly editable so people won’t have to log in to edit it.

      Or, make a google form (again set it so you don’t have to log in to respond). The responses will get saved in a google sheet, and you make that publicly viewable (but not editable so no one can mess with it).

  87. Toasty Bacon and Eggs**

    Has anyone noticed, or has heard from someone else, an uptick in employees accepting jobs, filling out the paper work, and not showing up to work on the first day? I have heard of people going to the first day and not coming back the next, but not to show up at all the first day and to not tell someone seems really gutsy. Unless it something where the employee got a different job or medical issue happened, I could understand, but I would at least say something to either the manager or HR that you don’t want to work with them.

    1. k*

      I work in recruiting and it’s very common. I’ve had 3 people ghost me on interviews today and there’s about to be a forth ghost. :(

    2. Red Reader the Adulting Fairy*

      We apparently get it a lot, especially in entry level positions, and it’s actually one of the improvement goals on our org’s dashboard along with reducing first year turnover. It’s not something I’ve seen impact my department though, we can’t even get qualified applicants. Heh. (It’s a role that requires specific credentialing and a minimum number of years experience.)

    3. Elle*

      I’ve seen that a lot, for many years in low-paying jobs. It isn’t new, but it does seem to be increasing. There are people who get better offers/have other things come up, and then there’s the fact that to be frank the most hireable employees are already working somewhere in this tight job market.

    4. Toasty Bacon and Eggs**

      I ask because at the company I currently at, there are issues even with some of the higher level jobs that people aren’t showing up to interviews, or the first day. Corporate thinks this is a recent development due to COVID and more unemployment money, but current employees have been unhappy with the company for years and people have been talking outside of work about it for years. Lots of reshuffling, no training, poor management etc. We are in a what I would call a “big, small city” where gossip travels fast. I think the company did it to themselves.

  88. Anonymousaurus Rex*

    Okay so I’m in a weird position. I’m deciding between two internal promotions, but I’m being ghosted by HR. I applied for an internal promotional role in my company but for in a very different division (Title “manager” five direct reports). I had to disclose to my manager that I was applying. She doesn’t want to lose me from my current division, and worked with our division’s leadership to offer me a new role within my current division (Title “program manager” no direct reports). I then received an offer for the manager role as well, but the salary is $6k lower than the offer from my current division.

    In all honesty, I think I’d rather take the manager role, as I think that having direct reports will help me in getting to a director-level position, which I’d like to be at in a few years. However, I am not really in the position to turn down an extra $6k/year right now for personal reasons. And honestly, the program manager position would be a whole lot easier for for significantly more money.

    I explained that I had another internal offer to the HR person who gave me the offer for the “manager” role and disclosed the salary they offered, though I reiterated my excitement about the role. He said he’d check to see if they could match the other offer but “our company can’t bid against itself”. That was last Friday. I have yet to hear back from the HR person, even after sending a follow up email yesterday. I’m wondering if I made some kind of a misstep here? Is this offer still even on the table? I need to make a decision, but I feel like I’ve just been ghosted!

    1. Elle*

      Try a phone call to HR?

      It’s honestly strange that they said “they can’t bid against themselves” because they literally are? By definition? Any time you are making an internal hire? Strange.

      1. Rusty Shackelford*

        I guess what they meant was that they won’t raise one offer to meet another offer, when both offers come from them.

  89. Junior Dev*

    Hey everyone. I know I haven’t posted as actively as I used to.

    I got a job at a startup, I’ve been here about 5 months. My last job was 3.5 years at a corporation, I left because I got transferred to a new boss who was really checked out from his job and got angry (yelling and insulting me) when I asked him to help with a problem that was stopping me from doing my work.

    The startup is theoretically a dream job in that I’m getting paid well to do work that’s interesting and personally meaningful. However, they don’t have HR, disability/medical leave or paid disability insurance. I have been really depressed, to the point where fatigue and executive dysfunction are impacting my ability to get stuff done at work. My mental health has taken a turn for the worse in the last 3 weeks or so. I am having trouble keeping up with work, and my manager is unsympathetic.

    My therapist is encouraging me to get a note from my primary care provider saying that I need a few weeks unpaid off to do intensive outpatient treatment. But it might come to a point where I either have to quit to get treatment, or get fired or pushed out in retaliation for taking it. I don’t know. Even if technically any retaliation is illegal, I don’t think I have the capacity right now to really be fighting for myself in that way.

    It’s looking like these downward turns in my mental health might just be a thing that happens every few years, and lasts for a month or a few months, and I am thinking about what sort of job would be conducive to staying employed when I can’t always work at full capacity. My therapist suggested looking into part-time work, but I don’t think that’s common in the industry I work in (web developer, some experience focusing on information security, know a little data science, but mostly I write code for websites and mobile apps other people have designed). Freelance seems like it’d be even harder on my mental health. The other thought I have is trying to work in government, at a university, or a big corporation, that would be more likely to allow for medical leave when I need it (I took leave a few years ago for something similar).

    What do people do when their health means they periodically can’t work at their full capacity? I’ve been scared of being unemployable.

    1. Reba*

      Actually, I think your field is a good one for your situation, in that generous leave and “unlimited” leave are increasingly common — *if* what you are feeling you need is to take time away more often or in bigger chunks. I think it’s more about the particular company/environment than field in that area. I know people who have taken unpaid “sabbaticals” from their jobs and this was just something they worked out with their employers, outside of any particular policy.

      The other sectors you mention do tend to have good medical benefits, but also tend to be more rigid about them. OTOH likely there would be less pressure to work long hours or overwork in those sectors, so if what you are feeling you need is an environment that respects 9-5, and doesn’t do crunch time and late night deployments and so on, maybe that makes more sense.

      From what you wrote I’m not clear what you have said to your manager about what’s going on with you, or what they were unsympathetic about. If you don’t think they or your next up the chain boss would be a good/safe audience for discussing your needs in terms of mental health, do you think you could take some vacation and talk about preventing burnout (keeping it kinda vague)?

    2. Graciosa*

      I would look specifically for another job at a commercial employer large enough to have a good HR team.

      I occasionally get annoyed about the persistent existence of start-ups large enough to be subject to key statutes who have a cavalier attitude about HR compliance and a you-can-die-when-we-finish-the-deliverable attitude about everything else, but I do not expect you to fight that battle at the expense of your mental health. Your primary concern should be protecting yourself.

      The tweak I would add is that you might consider (assuming you qualify) working for a large defense contractor. They often are accustomed to ensuring everything they do complies not only with general law, but also the additional regulations (usually “FARS/DFARS”) that apply to government contracting. These tend to be heavily audited by the government, and any non-compliance has multiple safe avenues for reporting and redress. I can’t think of any off hand that may help you (not my strong suit) but the overall very strong compliance culture tends to bleed over.

      I’d be cautious about assuming all government entities and universities (especially state ones) offer all the protections you’re looking for (some elements I lump into HR compliance don’t apply to some of these entities; it varies, depending on exactly what statute it is, so it may be worth checking before changing jobs).

      Best wishes –

    3. Daughter of Ada and Grace*

      The lack of HR/benefits/FMLA is one of the big reasons I stay away from startups, no matter how cool their product or technology stack is. I tend to stick to big employers in boring industries (think finance or insurance). These days every company has a website, many of them have an app, and all of them need infosec (but don’t necessarily have it). I’ve been reasonably lucky in having good managers who understood that no one can work at 100% all the time, but “be lucky” isn’t really something you can plan on.

      As far as “part time”, what about working as a W2 contractor through an agency? I wonder if you could find one where you could go on a 3-12 month contract to a client, then take an extended (probably unpaid) break before moving on to the next client.

      (For those of you not in the software industry – this sort of W2 contracting is pretty common. The client company hires an agency to do a limited scope of work. The agency then assigns one of its employees to do the work the client needs to be done. This can be either a short term “do this project”/”show us how to set this thing up” sort of thing, or an ongoing consulting arrangement. The client pays the agency, and the agency employs the developer/handles withholding/issues the W2.)

    4. snorgled*

      I completely agree with your assessment that government or university could be a good fit here – of course be thoughtful in assessing their exact benefit structure and policy, but they will be experienced in making legally required accommodations, and (imo) more averse to the potential risks of violating them.

    5. Gipsy Danger*

      I’m in Canada, so my situation might be a little different than yours, but I have Atypical Depression, which is basically chronic depression that gets better sometimes and gets (really) worse sometimes. I deliberately got a job in a unionized environment that has long-term disability coverage (short-term disability is covered by Employment Insurance in Canada).

      If I have to take a leave, my job will be protected by the collective agreement and if I have problems, the union will fight for me so I don’t have to – I hear you on maybe not having the energy to fight for yourself when things are bad. If I need an accommodation, or reduction in hours, the union will back me, and it’s a very large organization so I would likely be able to move to another job if that became necessary. In the past, I have been “laid off” (read: fired for being mentally ill) or just up and quit jobs because I became incapable of working, and all that uncertainty took a toll. I have only been at this new, unionized job a few months but I feel much more secure in the idea of taking a leave when it inevitably becomes necessary.

      It’s a tradeoff for sure – the work isn’t as interesting and I’m not paid as much as I would like. But it’s enough to live on and it has a pension, which is key for me because saving while employment is up and down is difficult – I end up using my savings to top me up when on short-term disability leave.

      With your skills, you are not unemployable, you just have to do a bit of work to decide what you need out of a job, and that might be different than it is for a lot of other people.

    6. RagingADHD*

      Hi, I have a couple of different chronic health conditions which impact my ability to work effectively when they flare up.

      I wouldn’t be able to perform at top capacity consistently enough, long enough, to keep a FT employee position. And I wouldn’t earn enough to meet my needs in a position that only required my minimum capacity.

      I found a freelance niche in my industry where I can do projects with long lead times and a certain amount of flexibility, and I work with an agency that is very good about renegotiating deadlines or trading projects with other freelancers to accommodate personal life stuff.

      When things are going well, I can take on a bunch of work and earn a lot. If I get in a bad way, I can flex my deadlines or just not take on something new right away.

      IDK your industry well enough to know where those type of projects might be, but it’s a different career track that can work for folks like us.

  90. FD*

    This is my first job search in the professional world after moving out of fairly entry-level customer service jobs and it’s brutal. I got offered this job, my first office job, five years ago due to meeting someone on a previous job. I’m lucky in that I’m employed, but the job is slowly draining the life out of me. Not so slowly, really–having some fairly bad health effects.

    I’ve read on this site that professional job searches take a long time but hoo boy I was not prepared for it. It’s so hard to be patient when you’re drowning at work, and I’m into my second continuous month of searching.

    1. Elle*

      Oh, I’m so sorry. When I was at my lowest it took me over 6 months. Good luck on your search, and hopefully in this economy you will have a particularly expedient search!

      1. FD*

        Thank you. I hope so too! It’s just hard to resist the normal rejections of hiring when you’re already coping with really bad anxiety, stress-induced depression, and insomnia.

    2. Neon Dreams*

      I feel you! I’m trying to get out of customer service into a not as public facing profession and it’s hard. It’s hard when you’re not happy at work but efforts to change the situation are not panning out. No advice, only solidarity.

      1. FD*

        Funny thing is, I *like* customer service. It’s this management job that’s killing me.

        But in the past, I worked food service, then hotels, then a call center, and the apply to finding a job turnaround was generally pretty fast, because the job market’s pretty good for those sorts of jobs.

  91. Alice*

    A few weeks ago I asked for advice after my company’s fitness program started measuring miles instead of minutes of activity. I’ve a bit of a disappointing update. I was all set to talk to some coworkers and make a group effort to address the change in the program, but I had some personal issues and had to take a couple of weeks off work. Part of the problem was that my ankle developed tendonitis and my doctor strongly advised me to stay off of it and stop running until I’m better. I’ve been unable to run for several weeks now, and I’m quite disheartened.

    Because of this, I didn’t check the fitness program for a while. However I saw that at some point they decided to lower all the targets. Now even I have enough miles to qualify for the “bronze tier” company t-shirt, thanks to my efforts in July and early August. Yay… I’m posting today because the people in charge of the program sent a newsletter today, with a bit of an “interview” with the person who’s currently leading on the miles leaderboard. He is, of course, a cyclist! Because of course cycling lets you log more miles than other sports!

    I’m not even mad about it, honestly, I just find the situation ridiculous. My coworkers agree, and we all hope that the program will revert to the usual activity based method for the next quarter. For myself, I’m just hoping my ankle will get better soon. If not, I might have to see a specialist. Either way, thanks for the advice and I’m sorry I don’t have a more satisfactory update, but I hope you all can get a chuckle out of this absurd situation.

  92. Mona Lisa Vito*

    I feel really silly asking this, but any ideas on how to deal with feeling under appreciated at work? I’m back office and between COVID preparations, my boss out on mat leave, and our team short-staffed in general, I absolutely dread work every day. My interim boss can see that I’m down and has been asking what’s wrong, but it feels very juvenile to actually tell her that (I’m in my 30s, she’s in her 50s). So I end up saying something about having a lot on my plate for a long time and her response is more or less “yeah, that’s the way it is.” I feel like if I just got some acknowledgement like, “I see you stepping up and appreciate it,” it would make such a difference. Have tried to take some vacation time but end up being called in on “emergencies.” Planning on taking some sick time next week, but am really struggling with how to get through this – or do I just need a new job?

    1. MisgenderedAndSickOfIt*

      When I did this the first thing I did was just started looking elsewhere. Some people just won’t change for that sort of thing… as dumb as it is.

    2. Elle*

      I don’t think it would be juvenile at all to say you are feeling unappreciated. At my very large corporation that was a huge piece of feedback we recently got from our team and immediately started to work on. A culture of recognition is really important and not at all juvenile. If you can muster the energy, see if you can start a little bit yourself with enthusiastic thank-yous or public call-outs (when appropriate) for the other people you see stepping up. When I can get the energy to do this I find it also lifts my mood a bit, too.

    3. Elle*

      For ideas on what to do, we start all our team meetings with a call for recognition and one or two people will pipe up every week with “Sam really knocked this project out of the park!” “Sarah worked really hard on fixing a problem for me and I really appreciate it, it allowed me to land a new customer because it was resolved speedily!” etc. We also have more formal recognition at the division and company level, but that’s probably not going to be feasible for you personally to implement. Your team, however, could implement something like employee-of-the-week (but maybe less cheesy?).

      1. Mona Lisa Vito*

        I love this idea, and we actually have it within the company at large (and get a lot of shout-outs for people who are in client-facing positions!), but my back-office team is just made up of three people. So I feel there’s a culture of recognitions, just not for us, if that makes sense. I’ll definitely noodle on this some more though, thanks for the suggestions!

        1. Elle*

          Ooof, I feel that. My team is in the same position – very internal work, we are a “cost center” but we are also critical. That’s part of why we feel underappreciated, too. We are trying though, and I know my company is trying.

    4. Free Meerkats*

      Since your employer has shown that they don’t respect your time off, next time you take some, just don’t answer their calls, period. Set your phone to send every number associated with them directly to voice mail the afternoon of our last day. Then don’t check it. They can’t call you in if they don’t talk with you.

      2. Alexis Rosay*

        It really helped me to say “Oh I changed my number!” to folks at work, then I gave them a Google Voice number. Then I delete Google Voice from my phone when I’m on vacation :)

  93. Not So Essential After All*

    About a month ago, I posted a question in the open thread about feeling burned out but being unable to take a vacation because I did certain essential tasks and had no back up. Everybody had great suggestions, and I’m thankful for the people who took the time to basically tell me “no matter what just take your vacation.”

    The update is that I both did and didn’t get a chance to use the advice because less than a week after I posted the question I was in an accident and the doctor’s orders were that I had to take at least a week off of work for the injuries to heal properly. So, that made that decision for me (and also gave me a moment to be able to say I told you so because I’d been pointing out for months that if I got hit by a bus, they would have to have some back up for my tasks. It might not have been a bus, but same result).

    It was a scramble, but they survived the week just fine without me, and prompted some changes that were long overdue. On the bad side, the second I got back the next week some of the same fundamental problems crept back in so the burnout meter is still reading at basically 95%, because the vacation wasn’t actually a vacation. But I guess we’ll get there.

    1. Elle*

      Ooooooh, I have so been in that place where right after vacation the burnout meter spikes again. The only thing that has helped for me is taking more regular vacation days to make long term change.

    2. Reba*

      Oh my goodness, and *actual* “got hit by a bus” scenario! I’m sorry that happened and glad you are on the mend. But yeah, recovering from injury is not the same thing as vacation! Sounds like the learning process for your employer is beginning.

  94. Anonymous phone hater*

    Am I being unreasonable? Cell phone and work question. Anon for this one.

    Here’s the scenario:
    I was hired to a new job in an administrative position that would be a hybrid wfh and in-office. Nothing was mentioned in the interview about using my personal phones for office use.
    After hiring my supervisor said they expected me to use my cell phone for work use while wfh and there was a cell allowance included in my pay. I said I could use my landline while wfh instead and gave that number out, asking that it be shared for coworkers only (not to be shared externally). The office phone voicemail system sends the voicemail to my email so I can already access it from home and I can dial the prefix so my number is blocked when I call out. My supervisor put the home number on our internal phone list.
    I very strongly do not want my cell phone to be associated with work because then I can’t mentally get away from work ever which is a really big stressor for me.
    After this, my supervisor pressured me to text my boss a couple times while she was on the road (while I was in the office) and I foolishly did it.
    Now my boss has given out my cell number to an external contact and gotten them to call me on my day off! Exactly the thing I was trying to prevent. I fyi’d them about not using that number and they were defensive in their response. And the third party is now calling this number repeatedly on my day off. Aaagh.

    How can I walk this back? I work set weekday hours and there is no real work reason why I should need to be reachable outside of those hours. And from my perspective the home number is sufficient to do what they need (me being able to make calls while wfh and be reachable by phone for my colleagues).

    Am I the unreasonable one? Honestly this is a mental health thing for me but I don’t know if my response is extreme or ordinary.

    1. Elle*

      So the bad news is, this has become super super normal at most corporate workplaces. You are unlikely to be able to get your way on this boundary in this job at this company.

    2. Free Meerkats*

      This is what Google Fi is ideal for. You buy a cheap, compatible phone on ebay, sign up for Fi and never use the data. <$30/mo, unlimited talk and data. I'd bet the allowance is more than that. Then turn it off when you're off work.

      1. Seven hobbits are highly effective, people*

        If you’re in an area that has it and already have internet through them, Xfinity Mobile is also extremely cheap for unlimited talk/text as long as you’re usually on wifi and only need 1GB or less of non-wifi data a month. My bill is about $15/month for the cell phone line I got through them because I decided it was cheaper than getting landline phone service to my new house. (I tell people it’s my home phone number and don’t take the phone with me places.)

        1. Anonymous phone hater*

          Oh I wish we had cell plans that cheap! Then I would buy a second phone for work. The equivalent plan you can get here (which I have) is still at least 5 times that amount.

    3. HonestQ*

      Set a BMI on cell phone that says if you are trying to reach Phone Hater, please hang up and dial C. Or some variation.

    4. Anonymous Koala*

      Honestly if the calls aren’t urgent I would set them to ‘do not disturb’ during non-work hours. Your phone won’t ring and you can listen to the voicemails afterwords and handle any issues during work hours. It’s a bit more work for you, but it’s one way to enforce the boundary. A bigger issue seems to be that your boss wants you available outside of work even for non-urgent issues – that’s something you’re going to have figure out with her, and it may be a requirement of this job.

        1. pancakes*

          Yeah. I don’t know about other phones, but on an iPhone you can block an individual number. Blocking this one external contact might help.

    5. Haha Lala*

      If you’re in the US, get a google voice number! It’s free, you can link it to your cell, but you can turn it off outside of business hours. You can call and text from the app and it comes from you google voice number, not your personal number. When you get an incoming call, it rings to your cell like normal, but when you answer it’s a message saying you have a incoming call thru google voice and gives you the option to answer or send to voicemail. It was a life saver for me when we first started working from home, but I didn’t want clients to have my personal cell.

      Give that number out to everyone and if any more calls come to your personal cell, block the numbers.

      And then start recommending your company gets a cloud based phone system. For your set up it makes so much more sense, and it would be so much more convenient for your clients to only have to call one number. My company upgrade a few months into everyone working from home, and it makes things much easier. I can even take calls just on my laptop at home– no need to use my cell at all!

      1. Anonymous phone hater*

        Sadly, I’m out of the US so no google voice. I did expect them to have something like VoIP here or else work cell phones provided based on the lack of mention of needing a phone in my interview and offer letter so it was an unpleasant surprise to get the ‘use my cell’ expectation. But cells do make more sense for some of my colleagues who are on the road often so not sure the finances would make sense for my workplace to change it to cloud based phones entirely.

    6. Anonymous phone hater*

      So a few details to follow up:
      Apparently my boss didn’t remember I was off today so they didn’t deliberately call me on my weekend. So there’s that at least!
      I’m not in the U.S. so no google voice option exists.
      Cell phone contracts are expensive here. (So is my landline fwiw so I’m not picking up extra money using that instead for work purposes)
      This cell phone is my primary means of contact for family so I can’t just turn it off during non work hours- it is my main phone and the number family would call in an emergency.
      I have absolutely no urgent enough work duties that my wotkplace would need to reach me at short notice outside of work hours. And if they did, they have my home phone number anyways.
      Sending work calls to my cell voicemail doesn’t solve the problem of work intruding into my non work hours because then I still need to worry about getting work calls on my personal line. And every time that phone rings I would go back into work mode. Plus every unknown number could be work so I wouldn’t be able to freely answer my phone. So then I’m still effectively not free of work. And that’s the crux of it: I need a way to segregate work calls because this affects my mental health.

      Thanks everyone who answered. I think this is likely a much stronger aversion for me because of my particular (sorry, just need to use the pun) hangups. Writing this out and reading your responses has clarified that much. So I will need to keep looking for an alternative because this isn’t workable (oops pun again) for me as-is.

      1. SnappinTerrapin*

        I get so many spam calls that I let all unknown calls go to voice mail. If they don’t leave a voice mail, I block the number.

    7. Firm Believer*

      Well sometimes people need to get a hold of you outside of work hours. If’s it not happening all the time I think you may be overreacting. And they should have definitely communicated it to you, but if they are giving you a cell stipend then they should be able to have your cell.

      1. ecnaseener*

        That really depends on the job. There are plenty of jobs where no one ever NEEDS to reach you outside of work hours.

          2. ecnaseener*

            Like my job. A WFH office job where the work is non-urgent enough to wait for business hours. (I specify WFH because otherwise it could be possible for someone to call me before work to tell me not to come in because the building was on fire or something.)

      2. Anonymous phone hater*

        Well, again, my coworkers and bosses have access to my home telephone number already so they can use that in case of emergency. And any outside party’s workday calls can go through the office line and get sent to me as voicemails accessible through my work email. I have set hours of work every week and no duties that can’t wait until work hours so being available outside of work hours is not necessary for any of my job functions.

        I agree that the cell stipend entitles them to something but I think it is a fair compromise to offer my landline instead since it still works for the purpose of them being able to reach me and me able to make work calls from home.

    8. identifying remarks removed*

      Set up do no disturb on your cellphone – you can filter it so that specific numbers such as friends/family can still get thru.

      1. Anonymous phone hater*

        Wouldn’t that block things like taxi numbers though (which change based on the driver)? Or basically anyone whose number I don’t know and set as safe in advance? Because that would make my phone not really functional for normal use. I need it for non work normal use, that’s the thing.

        1. identifying remarks removed*

          Unfortunately – yes – you have to input the numbers to be able to allow them thru. Another option could be a virtual sim.

          1. Anonymous phone hater*

            Unfortunately if my boss keeps giving out my cell number to third parties I won’t have any way to filter that without having a separate work number or separate phone. Which shouldn’t have happened anyways since, as I mentioned before, there is nothing urgent enough that they can’t just call the office line and leave a voicemail (which I can return even from home). So not sure why my boss has decided to do that. It’s really frustrating.

            1. identifying remarks removed*

              I get how infuriating it can be when people starting sharing your personal cellphone number. Consultant visiting from overseas used my cellphone number as the contact for his covid test results. Didn’t ask me – I found out when I started getting texts from hospital with negative results – to say I was fuming is putting it mildly.

        3. Black Horse Dancing*

          See if you can get a burn app. You can get a number from that app and then burn it when you want to change

    9. RagingADHD*

      Get a free Google Voice number and update the internal list. Text your boss an your external contact that your number is changing, give them the google voice number, and block their numbers from your cellphone.

      You can set it to ring your cell, your home, or both. You can send & receive text messages from your desktop or your phone.

      And you can set custom ring hours so it won’t ring through at all when you dont want it to.

      1. Anonymous phone hater*

        Sadly, I’m out of the US so no google voice. I’m super jealous of you folks down south (
        though because it sounds like an extremely useful technology to have.

        1. RagingADHD*

          From the south reference I take it you’re in Canada. Looks like there are a couple of similar services, like TextNow and Fongo.

          Even if you have to pay a bit for the service, you have the phone stipend to cover it.

          1. Anonymous phone hater*

            Thanks, RagingADHD, I’ll check into those. Last time I looked around I couldn’t find any locally accessible google voice equivalents in Canada but that was several years ago. Maybe something has changed now.

  95. Anon for this one*

    I think this is more of a rant than it is a plea for practical help but here goes.

    I’m working on a six-month-ish project to launch a set of chocolate teapots. Fergus is working with me, as he is our company’s teapot specialist although I think this is his first time working with chocolate teapots. I’m now more of a generalist but, in a previous role, I launched a very successful range of chocolate teapots so I know what I’m on about.

    For the first five months or so, Fergus could not have cared less about the project. No input on major scoping questions when asked. When we ran into a roadblock, he just left me and the other people on the team to fix it. But now we’ve entered month six and the project is about to go out the door, he’s suddenly very interested and in a very disruptive way. Like telling me I need to correct my notes because we’ve ordered plain, milk and white chocolate – but, if he just went back through his emails from a few months ago, he’ll find an email chain on why we’re dropping the white chocolate model. Or telling me he doesn’t think we’ve done enough to combat the fact that chocolate melts (‘and, just so you know, anon, chocolate teapots melt’) when he was literally cc-ed into our plan on this three months ago and said nothing. He’ll ask me for an update what’s still left to do, I’ll tell him what I have to do and what he needs to, he then….I don’t know if he does something and it just doesn’t pan out or if he doesn’t actually do anything but he’ll ask me for an update again a few days later and I’m just like ‘Erm, you still need to do the thing I told you about’.

    Fortunately, my manager has also been working on the project and knows the problem is Fergus not holding up his end of the deal. Unfortunately, I don’t have the political capital to ask Fergus to leave the project entirely (for example, I am perfectly capable of ordering in teapot molds myself but there will be questions to answer if the order form goes out from somebody other than the company’s teapot specialist) so I feel like I’m stuck with this until we finally finish the project.

    This is not the only behaviour of Fergus’s that drives me up the wall. I remember when he first joined the company, he asked me something along the lines of how stationery was ordered, so I sent him the links and he came out with something like ‘Great – so you’ll let me know when that comes in?’. (My face must have betrayed how unimpressed I was because he was very quickly pulled to one side by another colleague to explain that, no, ordering his stationery was not Anon’s job). There was the time he started a ‘cc all’ email chain that maybe SOMEBODY wanted to make some changes to the way teapot polishing work was assigned but SOMEBODY was clearly too lazy to do so (and I know that somebody was me because he’d already emailed me separately three times about his ‘good idea’ and I’d already said no and explained why).

    My least generous interpretation of this is that he is a mansplaining jerk. My most generous is that somebody’s given him a misguided chat about gumption and managing up at some point (he’s not a direct report but I am higher than him in the company hierarchy).

    Thoughts/kind words?

  96. sssssssssssssssssssssssssssss*

    So, remember that person who had a hard time with certain fonts and it was being handled as an accommodation, where it could?

    He’s recently said he “won’t” use Teams. I wondered why.

    I suspect it’s the fonts. You can’t change the fonts in Teams at all, not for receiving or sending (like you could with Skype) and Teams is all in a non-serif font and dude likes serif fonts best. I had a co-worker tell me this week she finds it hard to read in Teams.

    Thing is, we’re using Teams more and more. How can this font issue be best accommodated?

    1. Charlotte Lucas*

      I don’t refuse to use Teams, but I like Zoom better. I find Teams busy & confusing, & just kind of unattractive. I have vision problems, & Zoom is just… Easier. My organization uses both, but I definitely prefer Zoom. Could you use another platform at least for some things.

      1. sssssssssssssssssssssssssssss*

        We do use Zooms for all group calls and training.

        Teams is being used for, well, for Teams! Special projects, file saving in a central location, chat, etc. It’s ideal for us work collaboratively with other branches without fussing over SharePoint access over our main files.

      2. TiffIf*

        Interesting–I don’t love Teams, but I prefer it over Zoom. With Zoom, you have a designated host who has to start the meeting and who can’t leave without ending the meeting. In Teams, meetings aren’t dependent on the host. You can run the entire meeting without the host! (I’ve done this many times before–reoccurring team meeting–person who originally created the meeting is out for the day–meeting still goes on–no one in particular needs to be the “host”.) Now someone in our organization has to Admit external parties–but anyone on the meeting from our org can do it, not just the person organizing it.
        Sharing screens, especially by someone who is not the host, is a lot easier in Teams than in Zoom as well.

        For me Teams is software is better for collaborative calls and Zoom might have a slight advantage in pure presentation format.

    3. Elle*

      If your org is using Teams the way mine is, it’s pretty dang ubiquitous. Like, you could not work here if you couldn’t use it. This is going to be something you’ll have to work with HR about because this may not be a reasonable accommodation unless some tech guru has an idea.

      1. TiffIf*

        Yup–this is may company–if you can’t/won’t use Teams you can’t do your job. All phone calls and most meetings are via Teams. Work chat and team conversations are in Teams.

        My department used to use Slack for chat, but once the company started switching to Teams for softphones, they started forcing departments off Slack–because of IP we weren’t allowed to use free Slack, and they started cutting the paid version from budget/financial approvals so people had to switch. we had one guy who tried to resist for such a long time but finally had to acquiesce just because there wasn’t another chat platform he could use to communicate with other people at work.

        1. sssssssssssssssssssssssssssss*

          Ah, he can still email! But chat? Nope. He never does. Sure would be faster at times if he did.

          He can still do his job but avoiding Teams will make it more work for the support staff to make sure he’s on top of things and has the right versions of documents…

    4. Temperance*

      Is the font thing a disability issue, or is he just kind of picky about how things look?

      Teams is what my office uses, and I expect yours as well. Maybe he can work with IT on a technical solution to his font preference instead of just deciding he will not do something.

      1. sssssssssssssssssssssssssssss*

        I thought he was being picky but apparently, it’s a genuine issue and reading in the wrong font leaves him with a terrible headache. I can sympathize but can’t relate as I have no issue with most fonts.

        1. Sands*

          Tell him to click on the Teams window, hold down the Ctrl button on his keyboard while scrolling up on a mouse wheel.

          ctrl and the plus button will also work.

          ctrl and scroll down or ctrl and minus will reverse this if he goes too far with it.

          It’s not what he wants, but it’ll likely help him read the font better. He could also look into accessibility software that reads things to you.

          1. sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss*

            I’m sure he does that too; but that won’t help with Teams.

            Wonder if Immersive Reader works on Teams….

    5. LQ*

      I think if you used the webversion and your browser modified your font that may do it. I would definitely look at the web version to see if that would let the changes to font happen more easily. Depending on what you’re doing some of it is accessible through the sharepoint backend of teams as well. The chat is harder and I’d try different browsers.

    6. Observer*

      There is also a kledge that people can use, but it’s going to need cooperation with the people who are working with him.

      When you type stuff in Word and then copy / paste it into Teams, Teams keeps the formatting, including the font.

      1. sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss*

        I saw that too. Depending on the size of the Team in the channel, this might not be doable – ppl will forget.

    7. Cthulhu's Librarian*

      Huh. I had never noticed that there was no ability to adjust the font in Teams, but I just went looking, and sure enough, there ain’t.

      It actually is a real disability issue there, and something that should be flagged to your vendor – for dyslexic individuals, and some other types of non-neurotypical people, font choices can be hugely important – I am trying to convince our state regulatory board for libraries to mandate dyslexic friendly fonts on spine labels. For some reason, convincing people that this is an easy accommodation to provide in 2021 is proving difficult.

      1. Tabby Baltimore*

        You are absolutely right, this is definitely a disability issue, and I plan on raising this to our disability coordinator on Monday.
        We only have the ability adjust font size, and something called “Rich style,” which allows for different-sized headings, including something called “monospace” which makes the letters evenly spaced out.

  97. pockets for snacks*

    Can anyone point me to resources on how medical exemptions to vaccine mandates are supposed to work? My employer is only talking about the “reasonable accommodation process,” which means ADA, right? This seems weird to me, because there are conditions that the CDC considers contraindications to (at least full) covid vaccination that seem to me like they wouldn’t necessarily rise to the level of a disability under the ADA. Like, does a past allergic reaction to polyethylene glycol substantially limit a major life activity? Am I missing something? (I promise I’m not trying to cook up a fake exemption! I just need to understand how it’s actually supposed to go because I’m on a committee that’s at least going to be making suggestions and management does not have a good track record with coming up with sensible policies *or* following the law.)

    1. Eldritch Office Worker*

      Allergies are covered under the ADA! Also medical exemptions for anything also fall under the ADA, so if a doctor says they shouldn’t get the vaccine they’re automatically in ADA territory.

      1. Eldritch Office Worker*

        For your example, a major life activity is “an activity such as hearing, seeing, speaking, walking, breathing, performing manual tasks, caring for oneself, learning or working” (re: the EEOC). An allergic reaction has the potential to rise to that level pretty easily.

    2. Thursdaysgeek*

      My brother has cancer and I’ve seen him post that his doctor recommends against the vaccine for him right now. That’s what I think would be appropriate – a note from the employee’s doctor that they should be exempted. And, since there are some fraudulent doctors out there, keep an eye open for things that don’t quite add up.

    4. Seven hobbits are highly effective, people*

      I’m not on the team doing this, and I don’t need to ask for an exemption since I’m vaccinated, but here’s what I’ve learned from our recent all-staff emails.

      Our office is using a medical exemption form designed by our state health department that has to be filled out and signed by their doctor, and will then be reviewed by HR and they might be called in for a longer conversation depending. You might see if your state or county health department has something similar, either for general use (in which case you can just use it) or for their employees (in which case you can adapt it).

      Our form asks the doctor to check one of three boxes: “Patient should not receive a COVID-19 vaccination due to a medical condition”, “Patient should not received a certain type of COVID-19 vaccination. They may received a vaccination manufactured by ___”, and “The patient may receive a COVID-19 vaccination”. If the doctor checks that they can’t receive any COVID vaccination, it then asks for the specific medical condition, whether it’s temporary or permanent, and how the medical condition impacts their ability to receive the vaccination.

      I assume the ones who have reasons like “severe allergic reaction to first dose” or “undergoing a bone marrow transplant next week, no point in doing this right now” will not be hauled in to HR to discuss it further, while those who found doctors with a more…expansive view of reasons to skip the vaccine will be asked for additional meetings/justification/etc. I know we’re going to require everyone with an exemption (either medical or religious) to wear a KN95 and keep more distance from other staff (in various specific ways not worth spelling out here, but it goes into things like work areas, meetings, and eating), so presumably people who need additional accommodations beyond those would also be meeting with HR to work out the specifics. (The only person I know at work who has revealed that they have a medical reason to not complete their vax series due to a severe reaction is also very much already wearing a KN95, sitting far away from others, WFH as much as possible, and so on because she is trying very hard to avoid getting sick. I’m guessing she’s the kind of situation the rules will actually work well for.)

      1. WellRed*

        I’d be wary of having HR make the final call on the gray area cases. Do they plan to overrule the doctor? Will they have guidelines to follow? Will employees have to defend themselves or provide personal medical information beyond what’s on the form?

        1. Seven hobbits are highly effective, people*

          I have no idea. I’m not on the team that’s dealing with this, just on the all-staff email list. I think the form itself is decent since it asks two good edge-case questions (must the person avoid all 3 vaccines, or would one of them work? and is this temporary or permanent?) but I have no idea what the implementation will be like (I suspect HR also doesn’t know what the implementation will be like).

          They’ve just included a blanket “you may be contacted to discuss this further” on the exemption requests, without giving a lot of details about it. That could be anything from “…so we can work out a good set of specialized accommodations to minimize your contact with others given your role” to “…so we can investigate why 90% of the medical exemptions submitted were all from the same doctor, who is not generally your primary care physician and previously seems to have specialized in medical marijuana cards”, and I suspect they’ll make it up as they go along depending on what kinds of things are on the forms actually turned in.

  98. Mendoza*

    Another COVID/new ways of working query! We’re 50% remote at the moment due to the size of our office, so each of us does a week in/week out. I’m curious what’s reasonable/what other employers are doing around commuting time in scenarios like this (trying to be fair to all employees and not be one of those horror bosses). On a WFH week we might occasionally have to attend the office for a team meeting – would you consider the time commuting to the meeting to be working time? Assuming it’s at the beginning of the day. Traditionally a commute is on your own time but we have a new team member who feels in these circumstances the commute to/from the office for the meeting should come out of their working hours. Some of our staff live closeby, some have 90+ minute commutes each way. What’s reasonable here?

    1. Anonymous Koala*

      If it’s a WFH day, could you do the meetings in a conference room on teams or zoom, with the remote people participating remotely? Or could you allow people to trade a meeting day for a wfh day later in the pay period? That way their net time commuting is the same.

    2. HonestQ*

      Hmm. If they were traveling between offices, I would consider it work time but traveling to and from the office, wouldn’t. But then, I’m not sure why they need to come into the office for a
      Mtg? Do they?

      1. Mendoza*

        They do – it’s pretty rare, not even once per week. I used the team meeting as an example to try to save time explaining our business and what it does but I’ll elaborate a bit more. Meetings between colleagues are always remote now but some of the clients we work with (vulnerable adults) can’t be supported that way, so we’ll meet them in the office for an hour on a given day. If that day is your office-based week it’s of no consequence, but on occasions where it happens on your WFH week there’s pushback from the new member of staff. FWIW we try to discourage these in-person visits if we can, or do our best to schedule them for office-based weeks but they’re an integral part of what we do and we have service level agreements with the county that we have to comply with. This new recruit isn’t refusing to do them as such but has pushed back by saying ‘oh but by the time I drive in and out that’s x hours out of my working day’ (referring to the commuting time) and I was a but flummoxed. Pre-COVID things were very clear about commutes but now I’m wondering if this is coming up for other companies.

        1. MissBliss*

          If the person has to come in for a meeting, and it’s not first thing in the morning, then yeah, I’d consider at least one way of the commute to be working time. If it’s first thing in the morning, then I’d probably expect the person to just work the day in the office and flex a day during their WFO week (assuming that’s possible). Is that an option?

          1. WellRed*

            Yes, can the wfh schedule be less rigid? I wouldn’t be happy about this either but if I could wfh an extra day to offset I’d suck it up. Sounds like the overall plan needs some tweaking.

          2. Mendoza*

            The WFO week is pretty flex anyway – people often stay home on given days if they have lots of calls to make (or some other reason – we don’t monitor it at all – it’s a goodwill kinda thing) so on any given WFO week someone might only be there 2 or 3 days out of 5. This is why it’s sticking in my throat a little (the commuting being on company time) as we’re really flexible in so many other ways. Similarly this person has the option of staying in the office on a day they have to come in for a client meeting but says they would prefer to be at home, so side steps the issue by referring to the commuting time as being the main concern.

            1. Anonymous Koala*

              Is your employee salaried? If they are and their work is otherwise getting done, I would let them count the commuting time towards ‘official’ hours. If they’re not, I would encourage them to work from the office on days to avoid the commute when they need to have these meetings and work from home as much as possible the rest of the time.

            2. WellRed*

              Hmm I’m this case, I’d expect to see other rules lawyering from this employee down the road once they settle in. Good luck!

        2. A*

          In my line of work when this comes up (including pre-COVID) we would just go in for a full day and swap it out for a different WFH day that week – or the commuting time would come out of our work hours. If the meeting was first thing in the morning, I guess the commute there wouldn’t since it would be outside of working hours no different than a standard commute.

          That being said, it’s not really an issue on our end since we are salaried so this might not work for hourly.

    3. anonymous73*

      I feel like this falls under the “don’t be a hard ass” category. If you allow the employee to count the time driving as part of their work day, when they should have had the benefit of WFH that day, they’ll most likely be more willing to go the extra mile when you need them to do so. Because if I had a 90 minute commute, was made to come to the office on a day I should be home working, AND had to tack an extra 3 hours onto my work day, I’d be clocking out after 40 hours each week on the dot.

    4. snorgled*

      I think commuting should be on the employee’s time as long as they’re allowed to work the full day from the office – if you’re asking them to pop in for an hour / two hours then commute home because of office capacity it’s a little different. One possible accommodation might be to allow “comp time” – if you come in one day on your “off” week you get an extra wfh day on an “on” week – but overall I think commuting issues are on the employee, not company, to work around.

    5. LC*

      I like both of Anonymous Koala’s suggestions, and I think if you’re able to do either of them (or something similar). you should. Your employees will probably appreciate it (it’s disruptive as hell, I wouldn’t and you’ll avoid the whole “paying for commuting time” question entirely.

      If there aren’t any options other than them having to be in the office for part of a day, I’d suggest that any commuting done during normal working hours is considered working time. So if you have the meetings first thing, the commute to the office, which would be their normal commute time, wouldn’t be part of the working day, but going back home after the meeting would be considered part of the work day. And if meetings need to be mid-day, the commute time both ways would be part of working time.

      (I actually think it’s completely reasonable for the commute both ways to be considered working time on those days regardless, but I imagine that’d be a harder sell.)

      I’d also strongly recommend looking into reimbursing for mileage, tolls, parking, etc. on those days if you can.

    6. James*

      The rule I was taught was “portal to portal”. You start charging time when you leave home, you stop when you get home or to your destination (whichever is applicable). If I’m driving because you told me to, you’re paying me. It’s industry standard for environmental consultants. Well, actually the standard is “drive to your home office, then drive to the jobsite”, so I’m saving the company money doing it my way.

      Within a certain distance I can see not paying employees for travel. 90 minutes? That’s 3 hours of their lives you’re taking from them. They deserve compensation for that. And it’d be easier to compensate everyone than to draw a line and say “Everyone outside this boundary gets paid for travel time”, because as soon as you draw that line it’ll be gerrymandered.

  99. Iz*

    Can you negotiate a raise with a promotion if you’re being promoted to the “senior” level of your position but your responsibilities aren’t changing? I read through past letters about negotiating promotions for positions with more responsibility, but didn’t see anything about when your job isn’t going to change at all after the promotion. I’m expecting to receive the promotion as part of our yearly review this year. I received a pretty decent out-of-cycle raise last year, which brought me into the low end of the salary range for the senior position/high end for my current position. I’ve arguably been working at the senior level for at least the last year, maybe the last two, and I’m finishing up a master’s degree. I’m expecting that when I get the promotion they’re only going to give a 5-6% raise since I got the out-of-cycle raise last year, but I’d like at least 10%. I’m pretty valuable, since I’m one of two people at the entire company that know how to do what I do and the only one currently doing the job. Any suggestions for how to push for a good raise with this promotion even though I got a good raise last year and my responsibilities aren’t changing?

    1. Elle*

      I would say to treat it the same way you would at any end-of-year pay review. If your job duties aren’t changing, the title bump isn’t a great justification for more money. What *does* justify more money is the value you’re bringing in in relation to your ongoing job duties. I wouldn’t bring the title bump into it at all.

  100. Angus MacDonald, Child Detective*

    I have a question for how to deal with an awkward situation that is going to arise on Monday. I have been job searching for a while, unrelated to my current job, I’m just moving away and my current job is keen to get us all back in the office full time so I don’t expect they would allow me to work permanently remote. However, I acted as though I’m going to be in my current job for the foreseeable, because you never know how long a job search is going to take. So my manager and I have been discussing a raise. I have been offered a new job today (Friday), the same day as my boss sent me a meeting request to give me the contract (we’re in the U.K.) with my new pay outlined. So now on Monday I’ll be going into a meeting to discuss a raise that has been in the works for months, and have to tell my boss I’m actually leaving. I’m really worried about how to phrase this, the timing could not be worse!

    1. Elle*

      Just be polite and it will be fine! These things happen sometimes. And in the long run, this will be a lesson to them that they need to act more decisively to retain high performers.

    2. HonestQ*

      If you are moving, I’d say that’s a great time to give notice. And frankly, it’s not your fault the current company took months to get to the raise discussion.

      1. Angus MacDonald, Child Detective*

        The reason it took so long is just because my company moves very slowly with these things. We were told in April nobody would get their usual inflation raises due to covid, but that a very small group of people might get a raise in September. I was told by my boss I would be one of those few, and told to complete a form basically “proving” I meet the requirements for the raise, since it comes with a promotion as well (although not a title change or more responsibility, since that’s not possible within my role). So I sent him the form, he sent it back with changes, once it was eventually approved by him, he had to discuss it with his boss, who then had to take it to HIS boss. I completed my end of the form in June, the raise was just approved today.

  101. New Manager*

    I’m a very new manager with one direct report. She’s very sweet but inexperienced in our field and has trouble understanding time sensitivity. I’ve tried spelling out how to prioritize things but she just does not seem to get it. I talk to her for 15 minutes at the start of every day to talk through what needs to get done that day and spell out how to do it, because she won’t take the initiative to figure it out herself (I’ve tried to encourage a “why don’t you come up with an approach and we can talk about it” approach but it just doesn’t seem to stick).

    I think the problem is that for her entire first year here she had a really terrible boss who spoon fed her every task and ignored her if he didn’t have anything to assign to her, and now she expects that to be the case. But this has now doubled my workload (I used to do said tasks myself, now I have to talk through them and supervise her doing them every time). Of course I expect extra work that comes with people managing but I was wondering if anyone has any tips around this. My supervisor here is NOT good at being a manager, I’ve asked her for ideas but it’s been no help. I’m trying company-offered management trainings and it’s helping me form some ideas, but it would be helpful to hear from someone who has been in this situation.

    1. Eldritch Office Worker*

      How repetitive are the tasks she needs to do? Would a deadline calendar help at all?

      Have you had a firm “I need to be able to trust you to do x without me checking in and this is a serious problem” conversation?

    2. Elle*

      I am like your employee (to an extent). I used to do the same job I have now, at a company that was VERY hierarchical and had extremely well-defined rules about what was and wasn’t in my lane, what should be prioritized when, etc. My new company where I do basically the same job is the wild west in comparison – everyone just takes their best stab at the right answer and moves along. It takes a lot of getting used to! I’m constantly afraid to overstep the bounds of my role, constantly asking questions of management for simple things that are now well within my rights to handle alone, and just freezing up instead of moving forward because I am worried about screwing up. It’s hard to be told you should be in control when previously you were under very strict guidelines that said you absolutely *could not* control this. You need to be very clear with your employee that this is *her* responsibility right now and unless she makes an egregious error you have to not nit-pick her decisions while she gets her sea legs. Then you have to let her just *do it* herself. Maybe you could start out by having her email/talk you through her plan for the day instead of you telling her the plan. Then move it to weekly having her tell you the plan. It’s likely she needs some reassurance about her own judgement while she gets practice at this and breaks out of the old habit of waiting to be told.

    3. Actual Vampire*

      Have you explicitly told her that she should be making decisions herself and moving forward with things without your guidance? It sounds like you’re giving her a lot of support, which she might not realize is abnormal.

    4. ferrina*

      Glad you stopped by! Open threads are a great place to find management ideas.

      Here’s what I did for one of my reports:
      -I told her the big picture first: what ulitmately needed to be done and when it needed to be done by, including when the report needed to be in my hands (with enough time that I could review and fix as needed).

      -I set milestones and check ins. I did not tell her how to do it (she had been at the company for a year and been well-trained), but would tell her “I want to walk through your outline for the report by 2pm” or “I want you to have these slides laid out and everything but the graphics on there by noon”. I was always available for questions, but she had to do the work

      -At the check-in, I’d always start by asking “Tell me about what you did and why you did it that way?” Then I could see more about her thought process. The goal wasn’t to get her to do it my way, the goal was to understand her way. Sometimes she had some really cool approaches I hadn’t thought of, sometimes her approach was off base and I had to get her back on track, and sometimes she had an approach that I just wasn’t sure about. If I wasn’t sure, I’d say “I’m not sure, but let’s try that and check back in 2 hours to see how it looks. I’m really interested in seeing how this works!”
      Sometimes she wouldn’t have the work done. My next question would be “why not?” Not judging, but I need to know what barriers are in her way. Sometimes it was an excuse (“I didn’t know I could ask you questions”) but sometimes there was a very good reason (“The data got muddled so I had to spend an hour with XYZ”)

      So small lists of what needs to get done and when you need it done by, check in when it’s 10%/30%/50%/70% done to make sure she’s on the right track (and on track to get it done on time), then set her loose!

    5. Distractinator*

      So if you start the day with 15 minutes of saying “here is your goal for the day, repeating the same this we did Thursday for this new file, please show me the draft by 3pm”, what happens? Does she call you every 20 minutes to ask what the next step is? Does 3pm arrive and she says “well I couldn’t figure out how to open teh file so i didn’t know what to do next” ? Does she complete it incorrectly? Those outcomes don’t have the same solution.
      Or is it that everything goes fine, you just want those 15 minutes back and shouldn’t have to plan her day for her? Because that’s a valid complaint, but again with a different solution.

  102. New Senior Mgr*

    I’m interested in getting an MBA which is practically required to move up in my organization. I currently have a MEd. I’m also interested in getting a doctorate in EDD. As I research to consider which is best for me and my career goals, does anyone recommend universities that offer these online?

  103. Anonymous Koala*

    I’m coming off a period of really low work load and struggling to motivate myself to get back into the swing of things. Does anyone have any advice for getting back into a ‘normal’ work load when I’ve spent the last month or so goofing off?

    1. Elle*

      The whole deal where you make a physical change to change your mindset is my advice. I do something like get myself a fancy coffee in the morning to “set myself up to get a bunch done today”, I clean up my whole office to provide a “reset” telling myself I need it for the upcoming “heavy focus” I’ll need. Stuff like that!

      1. Anonymous Koala*

        That’s an idea. I’ve gravitated away from my desk this month (we’re still 100% remote) in favor of the couch, so maybe I’ll clean out my office and go back to the desk.

  104. Scoffrio*

    Does anyone know the protocol if you’ve already interviewed with a company in the past and they list a related position — if you should just apply or email the hiring manager and ask if you can be considered?

    I was interviewed and when they rejected me they didn’t make any comments about being unqualified for the work, and stated they were impressed, just went with a better candidate. The new job is a step higher on the ladder of the same team, but it’s also been a year and some change since the former position so I have more experience now.

    1. HonestQ*

      I’d apply with a note that you had interviewed last year for x position and throw in a comment about your continued interest in the company.

    2. Elle*

      I would apply through the normal channel, then follow-up by letting the hiring manager you worked with last time know. Lead with how you enjoyed getting to know them and had kept your eye on their openings because you’re still interested in working for them.

  105. Toxic Anon*

    How do you deal with working in environments where they are petty and punitive? They get mad and give you nasty looks and refuse to speak to you. It’s over things that can be fixed, so it isn’t a HUGE deal, but they act like it is.

    1. ferrina*

      You find a new job. They sound absolutely awful. This will likely sabotage your career and definitely your mental health.

  106. Jen*

    How normal is it to sign an NDA after making an HR complaint? my workplace recently had an HR presentation about workplace harassment and noted that both parties in any complaint will be asked to sign an NDA and are not allowed to discuss the conflict with anyone else (save for reporting to law enforcement or similar). I’m fairly new to working, so I don’t know if this is standard, but it’s ringing some alarms for me as this is an industry that has been heavily criticized in the press for discrimination and harassment, and i really value the courage of those whistleblowers. we also do have a general NDA that covers our regular work, so this is on top of that.

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Major red flag time. The company is more concerned with bad PR than they are with actually fixing the problem.

    2. ferrina*

      Wait, does the NDA preclude talking to a lawyer? That would be very, very bad.

      And no, that is not normal.

      1. Jen*

        i don’t think so- after all i’m pretty sure that wouldn’t be legal (or enforceable!) where i live.

        although this place does “hope you agree with our stance that salary should be a private matter between an employee and their employer” in the employee manual, so who knows

    3. Seven hobbits are highly effective, people*

      This is not something I’ve ever heard of, and sounds like a terrible idea.

      They should not even be asking, but if you do end up in a situation where you’re “asked” to sign an NDA, get clarification of whether they’re asking (but you can say no) or being required, and I really don’t see any reason why you should ever sign one unless you’re being required to (in which case still maybe get an opinion from a lawyer first) or you’re getting a substantial benefit from it (like when you’re signing one to get a job or contract). Getting your workplace harassment complaints resolved is something companies have to do, not some special treat or plum assignment you’re opting in to.

    4. Emma2*

      These types of NDAs can be designed to prevent all the women, BIPOC, LGBTQ+ (0r whoever someone’s favourite target group is) from sharing notes and realising that there is an ongoing or systemic problem with harassment. A lot of companies were using them and a number came out following “me too” allegations to say they would no longer do so (not sure about the extent to which they have followed through in practice).
      This approach really is not great – it can help to protect harassers for a long period of time.

  107. Box of Kittens*

    Political volunteer work on a resume

    I’ve gotten involved with my local DSA chapter and have been asked to consider running for leadership. Whether I do or not, I’m doing similar communications type work for the DSA that I do in my job. I also live in a deeply red state. I’d love to put this work on my resume, as I have limited communications experience to include. Even if it’s just in a volunteer section. Would this harm me in searching for a job since the DSA is a very left leaning organization?

    2. Teapot Repair Technician*

      Not exactly the same, but in my writing portfolio I have examples of work I did for a type of product that some people think should be illegal. When I was applying for jobs, I removed those examples if I thought there was any chance the prospective employer would be offended.

    3. PollyQ*

      Yes, it might well harm you, especially nowadays given how polarized we all are. It’s also legal in almost all states for companies to discriminate on the basis of political beliefs. Of course, you could also take the position that you wouldn’t want to work for a company where they’d hold that against you and include it on your resume to help filter out those kinds of employers.

  108. CW*

    Has anyone ever got an email from a recruiter for an open position on their work email? It has happened to me several times, and I never made a reply because I didn’t feel safe doing so. I simply deleted them. To be clear, these emails were unsolicited; I never reached out to the recruiters in the first place. And it’s annoying since it is on my work email. I don’t feel it is right for any recruiters or potential employers to reach out to anyone’s work email; what if someone else at work see it and assumes you are job hunting? It will definitely send the wrong message. I was tempted to reply and tell the recruiters to refrain from contacting me because it was a work email, but I didn’t feel like replying would have been a good idea.

    To be clear, if it were on my personal email, I would either politely decline or consider. But not on a work email. What would you do if a recruiter or an employer reaches out to you about a position on your work email? Has it happened to you before?

    1. Teapot Repair Technician*

      I click the mark-as-spam button. If I were interested, I’d write down the info and reply from home.

      In general, unsolicited email from recruiters can be ignored. No polite decline needed. They probably send dozens or hundreds of emails and will not be offended or even notice if they don’t hear from you.

    2. Daughter of Ada and Grace*

      I had a really persistent one this week. Emailed me last Friday, got marked as spam. Followed up on Monday, and on Tuesday, and on Wednesday. Got deleted all 3 days. Then a second recruiter (from a different company) emailed me this Thursday, and also got marked as spam. Very out of the ordinary for me to get even one of these at my work email, and very out of the ordinary for a recruiter to be cold contacting me daily on any platform.

      I totally agree that it would be really easy for someone to get the wrong impression if they looked over your shoulder and saw that sort of exchange. (Or if someone was looking through your work email history and saw it.) These recruiters are basically asking you to job search from your current work account, which leads to me thinking very poorly of their judgement.

      If I’d gotten the same email at my personal account, I’d have ignored number 2, but might have written a very terse note to number 1 on Tuesday or so saying to quit spamming me. It’s not like my personal email account is hard to find – if you can figure out where I work, you can find my LinkedIn profile and either get my personal email from there (or just send a LinkedIn message like a normal recruiter). Or you can find a recording of one of my public speaking gigs, which always has a slide with my contact information – once again including my personal email address. A recruiter who can’t manage even that isn’t one I want to work with – if they don’t realize that it’s bad form to job search from work (which is what they’re effectively asking me to do with these emails), what other easily avoidable mistakes are they going to make? Especially when there are plenty of recruiters who are not making the same mistakes.

      …Where did this soapbox come from, anyway?

    3. pancakes*

      When I worked for a firm that listed me on its website I got recruiter emails constantly. We all did. It is very normal for them to scrape contact info off firm / company websites. Feel free to ignore it, mark it as spam, or write down their contact info for following up from your personal account if you’re interested.

      Anyone who happens to glance at your emails over your shoulder and suspect you of looking for a new job just because you happened to be on the receiving end of an unsolicited recruiter email is way out of touch, and not worth worrying about.

    4. Portia*

      Oh yes— in my line of work (law) they are endemic. I have to list my work email on my firm website so there’s no hiding from Recruiters.

      I suppose it depends on where you work/what industry norms are. In law firms unsolicited, 3rd party recruiter emails are so common they aren’t likely to raise eyebrows. Hopefully your work understands that you aren’t job hunting.

  109. The Librarian*

    Our kitchen sink is out of commission, meaning we can’t make coffee or tea, wash our hands in the break room, wash our lunch dishes, etc. I don’t suppose this is breaking any rules? Does our meal space have to have water in it? I mean, we can’t wash our dishes in the bathroom…

    1. WellRed*

      Your office has to potable water but that could be in the form of a water cooler or bottled water. Lots of offices don’t have kitchens.

        1. The Librarian*

          The good news is, apparently it’s only the dishwasher we can’t use. The bad news is, I just watched my boss wash a plate from our communal dishes stash by… rubbing it under water with his hand. No soap or sponge was used. *Shudders* Please fix the dishwasher so I can go back to taking everything out of the dish drainer and putting it in the dishwasher…

          1. tamarack and fireweed*

            Ya, well, I don’t think I ever had a work kitchen/breakroom with a dishwasher.

            I usually just wipe my dirty dishes off with a paper towel (to eliminate oily and gooey food residues, as well as smells) and take them home to wash. Bathrooms are fine for hand-washing.

        2. Seven hobbits are highly effective, people*

          Our breakroom has no sink except in the adjacent bathroom. This is why I bring coffee from home rather than use the office coffee pot (among other reasons – the only place I ever regularly drank work coffee was when I worked at a place where the morning janitor also drank work coffee and I saw her properly clean the coffee maker every day before making the first pot).

    2. Teapot Repair Technician*

      How long has it been out of order?

      A rule that required the sink to never ever have a problem would be unenforceable. But if it’s been blocked up for days with no plans to fix it, that’s egregious.

    3. Nope.*

      “ I mean, we can’t wash our dishes in the bathroom…”

      There’s no rule that states you have to be able to wash them at work at all.

    4. PollyQ*

      we can’t wash our dishes in the bathroom

      Sure you can. Wipe off as much stuff as you can with a paper towel, so that it doesn’t clog the drain, then wash the dishes exactly the same way you’d wash your hands.

  110. FD*

    I really wonder what happened to the person who wrote in working for the small trucking company and his boss offered him money to film a sex tape.

    Best case unfortunately we probably won’t get an update, because if he went to a lawyer an NDA would likely be part of any settlement.

    1. Padma*

      We probably also won’t get an update because so many commenters acted like that situation was the height of hilarity.

      I would have been furious about that reaction if I’d been the LW. I wouldn’t blame him at all for not following up, NDA or not.

  111. Liesl is my doggy sidekick*

    Topics: Donor database gift processing v. Db analysis. Doggy daycare. WFH and your boss aren’t as trusting as they say they are.

    Joined a non-profit on 7/29. I was out for 2 weeks for surgery and then 2 weeks WFH, returning to the office on 9/7. It all worked out great. It’s taken me about 2 weeks to get back on schedule and to the point where I can go through my emails and feel ready for Monday.

    Issues:
    – I had a very bad experience with an annual report (not audit or 990) to our ‘big brand mothership’ that took up 2-business days of work trying to complete because I had to find all the government and COVID funds within the general ledger and solicitation analysis (for you Donor CRM managers out there). Yes, why didn’t finance do this? No one knows. And no one can really speak to the purpose of this report either. This was new to me and very frustrating. I didn’t have great confidence in myself and no one seemed to understand my challenge.

    – My coworker told my boss that she didn’t think I was happy with my job which at this time, during this mess, I wasn’t. During a weekly check-in, my boss said ‘she had observed’ my dislike as well and was concerned that I didn’t like my job. I admitted that this report was making me not like my job because it reminded me that I wasn’t doing any analysis (per my JOB TITLE) and more gift processing. I also said that I’m not getting the full view of our development schedule or process because IT’S NOT ANYWHERE to be seen! I felt lost and that was lost on her.

    – Reality: My job title says Database analyst but my boss confirmed that the majority of my work is managing the gift entry and CRM. So my title should be ‘Db Manager OR Gift Manager’ something like that. I clearly didn’t ask the right questions on the interview. Yes, I know that if the gifts aren’t in the system there’s nothing to analyze.

    – A week or so ago I talked with my boss, the Dev Director, that I would need to leave early, like 1:30 pm (arriving at 7:30 am or 1/2 hour before I usually arrive to make up) on the last week of the month because my doggy daycare canceled all reservations for the month. I’d work from home to make up the difference (I’m salary). Ok, I get it – dogs aren’t kids and can be left alone but my dogs – like many – haven’t been alone for well over a year, and now all of sudden they’re home for 9-hours? We have a 1x week where our 5-person team can work from home, MWF because we have meetings on T/TH that we can’t miss? So I can’t leave early every day, only MWF. Because I can’t Teams in for a meeting? Right now I’m not taking my 1x weekly day off because we’re going into holidays so wouldn’t a week of leaving 2hrs early really be like 1x day off anyway? I guess not.

    – I feel that I’m being over scrutinized and observed because they ‘want me to be happy’. I get emails such as, ‘Liesl, you need to take this training because we want you to be successful.’ I don’t feel their intent is compassion anymore.

    20 years in non-profit and here I am still asking my boss for permission to leave early…..

    1. ferrina*

      If I were your boss, I’d be concerned about you too. It sounds like you’ve been working there for just a couple months and are really miserable with core components of your position. I’d be wondering if this is going to be a good long term fit, or if I should be expecting you to transition out.

      I’m sorry if that sounds harsh. You sound really, really unhappy and you seem to be letting everyone know it. That’s not a good headspace to be in. Your frustrations are legit- you thought you were being hired to do one thing, but the job is actually something else. That sucks. Do you want the job as it is, or do you want to find something else?

      If you want to make this job work (even for a year or so), figure out how to enjoy the job as it is. Your admin will be more likely to work with you on issues like scheduling when you are kind and a team player in other areas (team player includes cheerfully(ish) doing the part of the job you don’t like). When you run in to something like the annual report, it’s okay for it to not be your favorite, but you can’t be miserable to the point where people are concerned about you. (Annual reports too shall pass).
      Good luck!

      1. Liesl is my sidekick*

        I’m not asking for any more hours to work from home than my coworkers get every week. Every coworker has one day a week WFH and I’ve chosen not to do that while I’m learning my job and through the heavy fundraising days in which I have to be in the office to process checks. I asked for an equivalent of eight work from home hours for the week and she will only authorize six which is interesting because she chose told me that she trusted me to work from home, as I did when I was on medical leave and to make this job my own.

        I guess there’s no such thing as an admin being professional; they allow their personal preferences to bias them.

        But you’re right life is too short to cheerfully do any job especially thinking this could have been the good a good job but it turns out it’s data entry and no real analytical opportunities. It’s my fault for not digging into the percentages of task composition.

        I learned that my predecessor was a database guru but had no analytical skills. My boss thinks that my predecessor being able to turn out pretty Excel sheets and put numbers in boxes was analysis; when I showed her what analysis really is she was surprised. I’ve shown her other analysis and attempted to put analysis into things but she wasn’t interested.

      2. Liesl is my sidekick*

        Just a note: my husband I talked and I’m going to resign on Tuesday when I have my weekly closed door one on one with my boss. The mixed messaging will not resolve itself and the job will never be analysis despite it being titled an analyst job.

        1. fhqwhgads*

          For reference in your presumably upcoming job search, if you’re working for a non-profit, ANY title with the word “database” in it may be misleading/not mean what you think it means if you take the included words at face value. I don’t know how it came, about but it’s endemic and has been that way for quite some time.

          1. Liesl is my sidekick*

            Thank you. It’s new to me as most nonprofits I worked for sporadically and/or used databases very loosely. Yet I could go with responsibility and titling:

            Gifts/Database Associate – data entry and organization; follows SOP, data hygiene, donor engagement, decline/credit card issues.

            Gift/Database Manager – creates SOP, manages hygiene processes, quality checks, training, manage templates and importing standards.

  112. Cute Li'l UFO*

    I know I posted a few weeks ago about getting ready for a round of interviews, getting through them, finding out on the last one they’d cut some of the open Llama Production positions. Next business day (Tuesday, as it was Labor Day weekend) I found out that unfortunately I did not get a position.

    That said, everyone at every stage from internal recruiter to VP of Llama Design mentioned that a Llama Designer position that was open would be a great fit and after getting the sad news I went ahead and applied. Monday the internal recruiter called me, mentioning that she was going to call me and invite me to apply and check in on my interest but since I had already done so she was happy to tell me that she wanted to schedule an interview with the Senior Llama Designer for Tuesday and for me to keep an eye out for an NDA and to get my references ready. NDA signed, my references have been notified by me and contacted by the company, and Internal Recruiter had a call with me yesterday about availability, benefits, org structure, salary, potential start date, and any other questions I might have. She advised me to be on the lookout for an email from Docusign as it would be the offer and expires in 24h.

    Needless to say I am keeping a close eye on my email and made extra sure my references are on the lookout for their emails too. I got extremely burned by a staffing agency a few years ago that lied about having the contract for me and strung me along for a month (learned a lesson at least) but I know I’ve got a little more waiting to do.

    Is there anything else anyone would recommend? I’ve gotten better about not defaulting to doom-and-gloom since I got burned. Maybe I’ll get a new job for my birthday this year :D

    1. ferrina*

      24 hours is not much time to consider a job offer, especially if you want to negotiate any part of it. I’m really hoping you and HR have talked thoroughly about compensation and benefits and have done at least some of the negotiating already.

      Good luck!

      1. Cute Li'l UFO*

        Thank you! Yes, this was definitely a different order of things for me but our talk yesterday did nail down all of that. I’ve been in startup and contract roles for most of my professional life and I’m very satisfied with the negotiating I did and having health benefits again will be a relief.

        I’ve definitely learned through AAM and my current boss (who I’ve had the pleasure of working with for just about the last 7 years) to stay a step ahead and anticipate the next step.

        I’m also surprised it took me until this year to put together a list of references. I certainly did have good references… but I saved myself so much headache by compiling them into a document. So much easier to copy and paste instead of trailing around contacts and old emails.

  113. Posie*

    I’ve been employed at a UK museum for 6 years in a junior capacity (guide/visitor assistant). I’ve applied for a permanent junior manager role 4 times between 2017 and now, and each time gotten to first or second stage and then been rejected. I’ve been seconded as a temporary seasonal manager four times.

    I have accepted that a) the role is unlikely to become vacant soon, and b) being rejected four times is probably a sign that I should take a hint. I’m personable and moderately skilled, and many in the team are surprised I’ve not made it. The problem is, I have no idea how to leave or else develop myself any further within my current role.

    If you were in my position, what would you ask from your line manager? What skills would you want to develop that would be appealing to similar employers? What would a commercially focused customer facing employer most look for these days?

    1. AvonLady Barksdale*

      First, ask for feedback. There must be a reason you’re not moving forward in the position. Start there– that may give you an idea of what you need to work on.

  114. hopeful for a raise*

    So I found out recently that my coworker (we are both fairly senior level managers) asked me a bunch of questions about some of the work I’m doing that he was working on paperwork to try to get me a raise. Our boss handed it to him because my boss has tried a couple years in a row (it requires 2 very high level senior level appointees to sign off) to get me a raise and hasn’t been successful. So he asked my coworker (who is very angry on my behalf that I’m underpaid because of some stupid rules essentially) to try to make a better case.

    So he told me he’s on like page 10 of a document about why I should be paid more (some of them are like org charts and the like) and he just gets angrier and angrier about how much more people who do less work than I do make. My boss hasn’t told me because ….obviously this is hard and has fallen through a few times, but I think my coworker at this point is more likely to quit over this than I am. It’s really nice to hear that I’ve got a boss and a coworker who support me this hard.

    I’m kind of wondering if other folks have convoluted processes like this to get raises for folks. Far beyond just I ask my boss and he says yes or no, but like the other side of that process….I wonder how far out of line this is to have to do this much work for a raise.

    1. WellRed*

      It’s so far out if line I wonder if I am misreading your comment? Your coworker is asking for you to get a raise? Whaaa?

        1. pancakes*

          Yeah, me too. Handing this off to someone who reports to him rather than working with someone higher up seems like an odd choice in these circumstances. Also, the coworker being angry and/or “likely to quit over this” isn’t necessarily helpful at all. You need a raise, not a display of emotion. Do you have any insight into why exactly your boss’s previous paperwork wasn’t accepted?

    2. ferrina*

      That’s not normal. Your coworker should never be part of the process.

      The process usually is either:
      a) Your boss/company awards you a raise based on your increased value/company policies
      b) You do the research to show that you merit a raise, show it to your boss who takes it to the necessary people and they work out if they agree/disagree.

      Note that there is no coworker involved. This is just weird.

    3. RG5*

      It has *nothing* to do with the amount of work. I think there are some very serious issues at your company that start with your boss’s managerial skills and sense of professional boundaries, but clearly also extend to pay. Your coworker is also out of line, but well intentioned and they’re not managerial staff so I’d hold them to a lower standard.

  115. notasecurityguard*

    So I have a fairly specific question but heads up it’s probably gonna piss some people off.

    So I recently finished a government contract assisting the Office of Refugee Resettlement (basically taking migrant kids to their sponsors here in the US) but before that I worked in Law Enforcement (dun dun dun).
    here’s the thing though, I worked primarily with kids, my job was basically keeping them OUT of jail, in 4 years I had 2 arrests (one was an adult who punched me in the face and the other was an adult who punched a student). I’m liberal, i’m pro BLM, I believe in deescalation, I think the biggest problem with the “defund the police” movement is the marketing, I would have voted for Elisabeth Warren had she still been in it by the time the PA primary rolled around, etc etc. Socially I’m very much what a lot of pro-social non-profits would look for, especially around issues like police reform etc etc. plus I have the degree and the experience
    but the longest job on my resume has the title of “Police Officer” and these days there’s a certain connotation with that.

    So i’m not being all “woe is me” I’m just wondering how I should assure places I apply to that while I was a cop i wasn’t like THAT kind of cop. putting something in my cover letter to the effect of “don’t worry i’m a liberal” kinda seems like it would be like saying “don’t worry i’m not a cannibal” but i also know that people see the words “police officer” and a number of them equate that with “violent regressive thug”

    so any help would be helpful (or if you wanna go OT and ask for my thoughts from the inside about how to fix policing in america I’ll weigh in on that too)

    1. WellRed*

      Well can you approach it like all the other resume Advice here? Under accomplishment for each job: implemented successful descalation program that reduced x by x.

      1. WellRed*

        Also, please don’t enter the jobseeking process with all these negative assumptions about the hiring mgrs. sorry policing has been so rough.

        1. Teapot Repair Technician*

          Agreed. Any attempt to preempt hiring managers’ assumptions about you will backfire if it means you’re making assumptions about them.

          For instance:

          i also know that people see the words “police officer” and a number of them equate that with “violent regressive thug”

          What you “know” about people seems to be based on what you’ve observed on social media or the news and is probably not applicable to most hiring managers.

    2. ferrina*

      What kind of places are you applying to?
      Because either:
      1) This experience will be self-explanatory on why you want to work there (and specific skills will be highlighted in the accomplishments you list under each job)
      or
      2) This is a unique enough career path that you are already putting together a cover letter that explains why your previous experience leads in to this next job. In this scenario, you can tell the story of how your work with kids was non-punitive/community building/advocating for them/etc.

      You don’t need to say “I’m a liberal” when the passions and motivations you describe in your cover letter already align with liberal values.

      1. notasecurityguard*

        So at this point I’m applying to a lot of stuff where it’s working either with kids or with populations that need extra services (like the mentally ill or formerly incarcerated) but i’m also looking at schools.

        the other issue is I don’t have a ton of concrete accomplishments because like I can’t exactly write “on tuesday October 17th someone didn’t shoot someone else because of me” like my job was primarily STOPPING things from happening so it’s not like i can point to a bunch of stuff as accomplishments

        1. WellRed*

          You don’t need to point to a bunch of stuff. Three or four concise bullet points. I’m a writer. I don’t write, “wrote a news breaking story on a Tuesday.” I’d put, “regularly wrote breaking news stories” on the resume. Not knowing your actual job maybe you “ maintained a public presence and fostered community relations while walking a beat.”

        2. ferrina*

          Your cover letter is going to be your strong point. That’s where you’ll be able to share the anecdotes of de-escalating situations and how you delicately and compassionately handle high stress situations.

          For your resume, you can use it to set the tone for what your job was. “Counseled youth who had been suspended and expelled. Liaised with parents, social services and school administration to create support plans and advocate for family resources. Advocated for and trained others in violence interruption strategies”. Stopping bad things takes a lot more work than starting them (as you know), so try to articulate the work that went in to that.

    3. ThatGirl*

      I agree with WellRed that spelling out your accomplishments and emphasizing the positive aspects of it are a good way to go. And honestly esp. given that you *left* being an officer and worked for ORR, I think nonprofits will look at it and go “hmm, let’s find out why notasecurityguard left”?

      On the more OT front, I don’t know what the rest of your department looked like, but you do understand why people feel the way they do about the police, right? Regardless of your personal choices or feelings.

    4. Elle Woods*

      I guess it depends on what kind of job you’re applying to. For most, I’d highlight the achievements you had in each position (helped relocate 100 migrant children to their sponsors in a 6-month time period; used deescalation tactics to reduce arrest rates by 98%) on your resume. Your cover letter would really be the place to show how the skills you’ve got are relevant for the position.

    5. retired*

      Similar background (child support enforcement and prisons). One of my mentors told me that people thinks those who work in prisons are knuckle draggers, but actually they have to be able to be living in 2 cultures/speaking 2 languages at once and many (like my friend, are very smart, very ethical people). I’d emphasize things that show your emotional intelligence, your ability to deal with a lot of different people in a lot of very different situations, sometimes with a lot of drama, with compassions and smarts.

  116. A Girl Named Fred*

    Hi everyone! Would love to pick people’s brains on the following questions:
    1) I left my last (toxic) job a few months ago to preserve/recover my mental health and am starting to apply to new jobs. When phrasing it to interviewers, would it be better to go with “health issue” or “personal issue”? I worry that “health issue” will make this seem like an awfully short turnaround time, while “personal issue” could make me look flaky? Any other insight?

    2) Around the same time I left my toxic job, I also told my PT job in an events center that I’d be unable to return due to some changes in my personal life but that I’d love to come back in the future. They said they understood and would be happy to welcome me back if/when I ever wanted to return. I just saw a FT role on their site that I’d love to apply for, in a different department than my PT. Is it worth applying to, or will it look weird since I declined to return ‘recently’?

    Thanks all!

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      1) I wouldn’t an eye if I was interviewing somebody who said “I wanted to take a few months off” in the Endless Year of the Pandemic. You don’t need to explain anything more than that.

      2) Totally worth applying to, for the same reason as the first question. A few months is neither too short nor too long to deal with ‘changes in my personal life’.

      2. A Girl Named Fred*

        Thank you for your response! I definitely know to avoid any badmouthing of my previous workplace but was struggling with wording for, “I just really needed some time off,” so to hear from multiple folks that that’s a reasonable answer is incredibly reassuring. I appreciate you!

    2. Heather*

      I also wouldn’t even think twice about a candidate who needed to take time off during this absolutely wild year. In fact, I know quite a few effective, brilliant people who had to take some time. I’d struggle with wanting to ask if they’re ok because I care about how people are handling things perhaps you can find a way to frame it to say that you’re ready to work again. This might be different though, in a more corporate environment.

      1. A Girl Named Fred*

        Thank you for this! I’m sorry you also know folks who have been struggling, but appreciate the reminder that I’m not alone in needing time/space to process Whatever This Year Has Been. I’ll definitely include some phrasing on how I’m ready to get back into work and why their position in particular excited me. :) Thanks again!

    3. ferrina*

      1. A few months is really normal time to deal with a health issue (physical or mental). That’s assuming anyone asks- as ABET and Heather pointed out, most people may not even care (they just need something to put down on the form).

      2. Again, you left a few months ago. Go ahead! Apply and reach out to your contacts there.

      1. A Girl Named Fred*

        Thank you! I was pretty sure I was just overthinking question 2, but hearing reassurances from multiple people is definitely appreciated.

    4. ecnaseener*

      “A temporary health issue” would be good – not just to acknowledge that it was a short break, but also to avoid them worrying about you having ongoing health problems.

    5. Good luck!*

      “I spent some time attending to a family issue (that’s true, you are part of your family!), but it’s resolved now and i’m ready to jump into work again.” No need to get so personal as citing a health issue.

  117. Heather*

    I’m going to be interviewing a few candidates who’s names I can’t figure out how to pronounce from looking at how they’re spelled. Is it ok for me to ask in advance how to pronounce their names so that I can practice and avoid the situation where we spend the interviewee’s time talking about pronunciation? And if so, could I share this with the other panel members? I could try looking up the pronunciation but I’m not sure I’d get the correct results and wouldn’t want to make assumptions. I’d really like to start out interviews with all candidates feeling as comfortable as possible, and I don’t want to put the candidate in a position where they have to correct their interview panel. Thanks!

    1. OtterB*

      Ask who in advance? Is there someone who did phone screens with them who might know pronunciation?

      There are a few “how to pronounce names” sites out there. If you don’t have a source within your organization I’d suggest you look it up in one of those so you have an approximation of the pronunciation. Then you can say it and ask “Is that the right pronunciation?” That seems more respectful to me than being at a complete loss.

      1. Heather*

        No phone screens in advance. I am the hiring manager and future supervisor and will lead the interview panel. So I’m thinking of asking the candidates myself in advance because I can’t do it the way I usually do (as I walk them to the interview room) because it’s online instead.

    2. Alexis Rosay*

      It sounds like a fine idea to me. Just to make sure you are treating all job candidates equally, I would suggest asking every candidate to send either a phonetic writing or a recording of their name. That will prevent you from targeting only people with certain names, and also from making assumptions about how to pronounce names that may be spelled in a common way but pronounced differently.

    3. MissDisplaced*

      Sometimes you can look this up on Google by typing in “How do you pronounce Xxxxx”
      I lucked out with that a few times. Are you calling them? If that’s the case it is perfectly fine to ask how they pronounce their name the first time and to tell others how it sound phonetically. I think people appreciate the effort.

    4. Rick Tq*

      Yes! Ask them for guidance and share the information with the panel.

      My surname is mispronounced 90+% of the time so I’m ready to provide the correct pronunciation and spelling when needed.

    5. ferrina*

      If you Google the name, there’s usually a phonetic feature that allows you to hear how it sounds. Don’t ask in advance, but do ask at the beginning of the interview.

      I’ve been in your shoes, and started with “Hi, nice to meet you, [NAME]! Sorry, did I pronounce your name correctly?” (No, I did not) “Thank you! I’m going to apologize in advance if I mispronounce your name- please correct me if I do it! Now, can I get you water or anything before we begin?”

      I guarantee you are not the first person that has mispronounced their name. As long as you are polite and don’t dwell, it will be fine. (in case you are wondering, I hired the person whose name I could not pronounce. In the three years we worked together, the interview never came up)

      1. Heather*

        Typically I do this on the elevator when I walk the candidate to the room (I prefer to do this myself so I have a quick moment to set people at ease before we get started) so that when I introduce the candidates to the other panel members, I have the correct pronounciation. I suspect these will all be online given the world right now, which means they’ll “enter” the zoom room with all of us already in it. Do you think this is an ok conversation to have with the whole panel?

        1. Ginger Baker*

          I personally love the idea of doing this in advance (and, would distribute to the panel in some way) but I think if you do it at the panel interview, it’s great to do in with the whole panel – who, hopefully, also do want to get the candidate’s name correct!

    6. Ginger Baker*

      I would think that is fine. I have a very familiar US name so don’t have this issue myself but have asked people upfront because getting their name correct is important to me (and folks with “more difficult” names to American tongues have been SO HAPPY when I worked to get their name correct) and my guess would be that if anything they would have an internal “yes, green flag, company values using my correct name!” assessment. Please do update if you do!

      1. Ginger Baker*

        I LOVE the advice to do this for all candidates, and would personally caution against using a “how to pronounce” google approach – any number of names have multiple pronunciations that may not come up on google, including my daughter and at least a half dozen of my friends and (I recently found out the hard way!) a client.

    7. PollyQ*

      I have a hard-to-pronounce last name* and my preference is for people to take their best swing at it, and if they get it wrong, I’ll correct them. I think it’s also OK to just ask right up front, saying something like, “Hi, I’m Heather, nice to meet you. Can you tell me how you pronounce your name so I can get it right?”

      *although it wouldn’t be if people just applied normal English pronunciation rules, but that’s a rant for another day.

      1. Sensitive Chef*

        Same, my name is unusual and it doesn’t bother me in the slightest if people get it wrong. Think this approach is best

    8. Llama Wrangler*

      In addition to the suggestions above (which would work well if you have interaction with the person in advance of the panel), could you just start the interview by saying: “Hi, I’m Heather. Before we jump in, can you say your name for us so we make sure we are pronouncing it correctly?” And then move directly from there into other introductions so that people don’t get bogged down in it. That’s a ~30 second interaction that precludes people mispronouncing people’s names, but also doesn’t involve doing anything in advance on either side.

      1. Not enough consonants*

        I have a difficult to pronounce name, too. I personally would prefer just being called by my first name. In general, it’s frustrating when people ask me to pronounce my name, because they almost never get it right, even after multiple tries. I’m either left with letting them think they have it right so I can move on, or keep going until they get it right, which could take several minutes. I usually just end up saying “[firstname] [lastinitial] is fine.

        Add the stress of a job interview, and now I have to smile and pretend not to be annoyed by it… I’d rather introduce myself and move on. Most interviews don’t require your last name for most conversations anyway.

        I used to try to learn how to pronounce people’s last names correctly in advance. I’ve been burned by this a few times where people with names of the same origin ended up using an Americanized pronunciation that was incorrect anyway…

        1. Llama Wrangler*

          My comment was specifically about first names – and surprisingly in interviews I have found many candidates do not introduce themselves by name. I guess they assume you know their name and there’s no reason to introduce themselves?

            1. Not enough consonants*

              I wonder if you could try calling their work phone number from a number that won’t show up as your company at an odd hour and see if they say their name in their voicemail and just hang up before they answer.

  118. AnotherAlison*

    Last week I mentioned a job opportunity that seems to be leading to an offer. I had an interview with the person I’d report to directly (the first was HR, second was the grand-boss), and I have the final interview with the outgoing director Monday (who I would report to except that he’s retiring an the other guy will take his place). I really try not to be overly optimistic, but the HR guy already asked me to fill out some paperwork that they will need if they go forward, and this last interviewer is leaving so he may be more of a formality to satisfy his own higher-ups than someone who is really going to go against the other two.

    One of the things that they need is my references. I have great references and have kept in touch with 2 of them. The bad news is I only left my last long-term job in December, so it’s a little bit of a “walk of shame” vibe for me. The good news is there is a pretty major pay issue that is a reasonable explanation without making me look like an idiot. I’d just like my former managers to continue to thing highly of me. Either way, I’m sucking it up and doing it so I can get out of my current job.

    Tale of the trenches this week: asked on Tuesday to go to Home Office (a plane ride away) for training next week. I was there last week. FFS. The invite went out in July. I wasn’t included or even aware of the training, but it was definitely something I should have been involved in. My manager attended. I missed the first session in June. How I got invited now was that a senior colleague of my counterpart who supports a different division in my same role asked to get her on the list. One of the more minor issues given the other crap here, but just another sign of not being very valued to the org.

  119. It's finally Friday.*

    I work in a nonprofit under a new department. It’s just my manager, me, and two other person. A few months ago, we had volunteers sign up for our department and somehow, one way or another, they were delegated to me because their volunteer time would be used to “help” me. I didn’t think much of it and over the months have spent time training the volunteers and providing them feedback. To clarify, I didn’t really need help but our nonprofit doesn’t seem to ever really turn away volunteers.

    Now, I’m wondering if I took on extra duties I didn’t need to? The volunteers do help me with lower level tasks I have but I’m wondering why I had to take on their training and feedback, and why that wasn’t something my manager did. Is this something my manager should’ve done instead of me? I’m not in a managerial role of any sorts, and am considered entry-level. My job description when I was hired had nothing to do with leading volunteers.

    After a few months of training, the volunteers are pretty self sufficient and I just have to do occasional feedback and correction(depending on the volunteer). I do remember when they first started, it was quite a learning curve for me as I had to figure out how to delegate my work and create a system for them to be able to help me with my work.

    I worry about when these volunteers leave, or what if I get new volunteers and have to train them too? Is this something I can push back against? Or is this something I can use to ask for a pay-raise? Or is this something typical in the work place?

    1. Alexis Rosay*

      If your org has a significant number of volunteers they may hire someone to specifically manage the volunteers, otherwise, it is typical for the person whom the volunteers will be assisting to train them. Training volunteers is definitely not a manager-only task, in fact, I’d say it’s more likely to be an entry-level task.

      If you don’t have the bandwidth to work with volunteers, IMO it’s totally fine to push back and say you can’t accept a volunteer right now, but I suppose that depends on the organization and its policies. I do think your boss should have asked you if you could accept volunteers, but if your organization has a policy of always accepting volunteers that may not have been an option.

      If you don’t want to accept a volunteer, I would only state “that’s not in my job description” if you are spending a significant percentage of your time managing them, though it sounds like that could be the case. It’s much better in general to lay out the amount of time you spend managing the volunteers vs. the amount of time they save you and show that it’s not a good use of your time.

    2. ferrina*

      This sounds like the “other duties as assigned” from the job description.

      Can you push back? Yes, but make sure you have strong business reasons why (competing priorities, lack of time, etc.). I disagree with Alexis that you should say “that’s not in my job description”, since this is really frustrating as a boss (I hate to pull the “your job is what I say it is” line, but it’s true). You want to explain what’s not getting done while you are managing volunteers. You can state your preference, but that’s more of asking for a favor than stating a reason (unless it’s something that you are willing to quit to escape. That’s a solid business argument)
      Should you push back? Eh. This is really, really good resume building stuff. If you are ever interested in being a manager, you just got your first practice! It can be hard to get in to management without prior experience, and responsibilities like this really help. And it sounds like it wasn’t too bad for you (?)
      Can you use it for a pay-raise? Yes, definitely. But make sure you have data on why you should get a pay raise.
      Is it typical? In the wonderful world of non-profits…not exactly uncommon. Not standard practice, but happens from time to time.

      1. Alexis Rosay*

        I do agree that it’s not usually a good idea to use the “that’s not in my job description” line and can easily come off as obnoxious. However, I do think that’s something you can bring up if you were hired for a specific role, say, bookkeeping, yet find yourself spending a huge percentage of your time on something completely different, like managing volunteers. If OP is spending 30% or 50% of their time managing volunteers–then I do think it would be fair to refer to the specific role they were hired for. If it’s a small percentage of time, then I would certainly not bring up that defense. I didn’t mean for my post to come across as a blanket endorsement of the “that’s not my job” line.

        My partner’s direct report recently made such a complaint to him; he had been hired for one purpose but was being asked to take on a completely different set of duties. My partner did not think less of him for it. Importantly, his direct report was not refusing to take on new duties, but he was expressing his preference for the role he was hired for and asking his boss to make a plan to shift him back to those duties over the next few months.

    3. Teapot Repair Technician*

      I would push back on it. The real problem is your org is spending resources to take on volunteers that no one wants or needs.

      Make sure your boss is aware that having volunteers doesn’t seem to make sense in cost/benefit terms. It may spur them to be deliberate in deciding whether to accept a new batch.

  120. HandlingIt*

    Is anyone else just… sad and hopeless about the working world?

    Everyone I know is completely drained and bouncing between temporary gigs with no benefits and a wage entirely unworthy of their skills, hoping to land somewhere that can remotely keep up with an increasingly unaffordable cost of living. Meanwhile, their rights continue to be eroded and circumvented.

    Today I saw a job ad on this forum I’m on and everyone was flipping out because it paid a living wage and was permanent. Because that is so rare now. And so precious.

    Some of this is industry-specific, but I find this attitude is spreading more and more these days, regardless of what you do for a living.

    I’m just bummed. What kind of future is there?

    1. MissDisplaced*

      Yes, but not in exactly the same way.
      I’m lucky to have retained a good paying job through the pandemic. But I also had my years of crap.

      It’s even worse when you speak to people in Europe, where they have a lot more worker protections and can retire at 62 years of age compared to our 67.

      But you know IF enough people VOTE for the right candidates who support worker rights, things CAN change.
      The United States is only this way, because we ALLOW things to be this way. If the people really want change it is possible to enact it. But of course we all know that it’s harder than it seems and that many want to stay in the matrix even though it’s killing them slowly.

      1. Generic Name*

        Yes! Vote in every election. Even the “unimportant” local elections like school boards. We will not change the minds of those who profit handsomely off of unfair labor practices, so we need to vote. There are more of us than there are them.

      2. HandlingIt*

        I’m in Canada – we are lucky in many ways (and I’m grateful for that) but are rolling back a lot of pro-worker laws and (most of all) are facing a serious affordability crisis. Same thing applies – voting and making your voice heard are the only ways to tell them to change.

    2. retired*

      Activist here. Change is possible but it is very hard work Most people do not want to work that hard. They vent on social media; they don’t go to all those boring meetings where they could learn about the system, who runs the system, and how to change it. You don’t need a lot of people, but they have to be willing to do that extra hard work and give up other things in their lives that are more fun.

  121. Person from the Resume*

    I’m full time work from home with a virtual team scattered all over the country. I know of two colleagues who are anti-vaxx because it accidentally came up.

    One asked me what I was going to do about vaccine mandates, and my response was I was first in line to get vaccinated as soon as I was eligible months ago.

    The other a nice, quiet guy prefixed his telling me with “I hope you don’t think less of me…”.

    I don’t think this will affect our interactions especially since this is not endangering me because we don’t meet in person, but on the other hand I’m shocked that they are not swayed by the overwhelming science. We’re medical field adjacent. And I definitely will continue to keep my queerness under wraps because I imagine they must be pretty conservative folks to have bought into the anti-vaccine messaging.

    Not being openly out is pretty easy when working from home as there’s not a ton of small talk, I don’t have a partner to mention, but on the other hand I have a queer haircut in photo in teams and not being married with kids at my age is rare with conservative folks so I’m an outlier and they may have made accurate assumptions about me. I’m still keeping it on the down low.

    1. Ginger Baker*

      Sadly, a number of queer-friendly folks I know are antivaxx, so apparently ignoring science takes all kinds. :/

    2. LizB*

      I don’t understand how that second coworker expected you to respond. Anyone who doesn’t have the vaccine not because of any barriers to getting it (medical, time off work, availability in their community) but because they decided “nah, I don’t want to” (or even worse, “enough other people will get it, they’ll protect me”)… yeah, I absolutely think less of them. They’re making a stupid and selfish decision and making life worse for the rest of humanity. How is my private opinion of them supposed to remain unchanged once I know that?

      1. tamarack and fireweed*

        We do know though that among those who have hesitated to get vaccinated, this attitude accounts for less than half of the group. So even when I’m guessing that’s what’s going on I’ve been leaving the door open – also, I think it’s a good idea to give people an “out” to save face when my main goal is to nudge them to a change of behavior.

        It hasn’t happened at my work, thankfully, but in other social situations I *have* said something along the lines of “This is a confusing and scary situation, and I trust we all are trying to do the right thing to do right by our loved ones. But one thing that is clear is that vaccines are saving lives, and that the most direct way out of this pandemic is the one where the maximum number of people gets vaccinated. I’m just sorry that there seem to be a lot of professional misinformation-peddlers around.” And then I walk away and stop engaging, if necessary by saying “I’ve said my piece, and now I can just hope for others to do the responsible thing.”

      1. tamarack and fireweed*

        There are tons of cultural and social markers encoded in how we do our hair, so you have a whole world of discovery ahead of you.

    4. Medical anthropology student :)*

      I’m not sure if this answers your question? But unless they told you the reasons for their hesitancy, I personally wouldn’t assume they’re conservative without other data to support that.

      The other main reason for hesitancy is if you’re part of a group that’s commonly discriminated against by healthcare professionals. There’s been some media attention on hesitancy in the African-American community because of this, but also really any BIPOC, women, religious minorities, people who have lacked access to healthcare because they were/are undocumented or uninsured or grew up in poverty, and members of the LGBTQ community may have experienced bias and discrimination that makes them not trust doctors/healthcare professionals *for themselves and their own care*.

      They may also not be against the vaccines personally but know they’ll face backlash/fear from people in their communities. Or formerly have practiced a religion which was anti-vaxx and now don’t really believe it but are still scared because they grew up with that fear. Or they may have a medical condition that affects their eligibility or access to healthcare (if they’re homebound) but they don’t want to disclose it because it’s stigmatized.

      Here’s an article on vaccine hesitancy within the LGBTQ community from March (obviously there’s even more safety data now which has convinced a lot of people who were initially hesitant, but I think this still offers a perspective you might appreciate): hxxps://www[.]nytimes[.]com/2021/03/05/well/lgbtq-covid-19-vaccine[.]html

      If you want to convince them, I would just keep mentioning how you’re supporting people in getting vaccinated – “Hey, well, if you change your mind, don’t worry about getting time off if you need it!”

  122. Seven hobbits are highly effective, people*

    My brain is fried so I’m going through a bunch of our required annual trainings today so I can look busy while not doing anything complicated.

    My favorite so far is the video that said “this bear represents trauma” as the introduction to the section of the video dealing with how many people have experienced trauma in their lives and this relates to [training topic]. (No, the trauma types we’re worried about do not involve bears, our job does not involve wildlife, and we have no connection with bears whatsoever.)

    This Bear Represents Trauma.

    Anyway, any similar gems from the trainings the rest of you get?

    2. FD*

      Oh, oh! When I was in hotels, we had a safety video. Pretty standard workplace safety stuff, but it covered Lockout/Tagout. There was a plot twist–the guy giving the safety talk within the ‘storyline’ of the video had died in a lockout/tagout failure and he was a ghost.

      I always wondered what god you annoyed to get cursed with giving safety videos for the rest of your afterlife…

  123. Sunbonnet Sue*

    I got a job offer (yay!) for a patient-facing position in health care. I’m currently using a breast pump 2x/day (morning and afternoon) and at my current job have a private space to pump. I have my laptop and do documentation, emails, etc. Office space at the new job is shared. I did not bring this up during interview process because discrimination is a thing. How do I best approach inquiring about a setup at new job? I was thinking an email (so it can be in writing), and laying out the facts. Something like “I currently use a breast pump two times per day, in the morning and afternoon. Is there a private space at (location) where I can pump, and is there a fridge I can use for storage? My equipment that requires refrigeration fits in a standard lunch box.” Still trying to figure out how I can say “I can still work if there’s a computer in there!” Any thoughts?

    1. Reba*

      Congrats! Rather than “is there a space” I would write something like “where is the space” or “can we discuss arrangements for a private space.”

      I think you can say “I currently use a breast pump twice a day, often working on my laptop during those sessions” but you don’t need to.

      1. ferrina*

        Seconded! Alison occasionally recommends an approach where you phrase things like of course they’ll work with you to do this very reasonable thing. Reba’s edits are a good example of this approach.

        Sunbonnet, I like your plan of emailing this. That’s very smart

        1. Reba*

          Exactly! They have to provide it, so let’s start out in a collaborative tone with the assumption that they are going to do it right.

  124. HR Nerd*

    I just need to share this somewhere. I am reviewing resumes and attachments for an open job and one of the candidates submitted a 4 page life story in lieu of a cover letter. It talks about his early childhood challenges, family struggles, his first job at 14 and his 30 year career journey. I am……. perplexed.

      1. Sola Lingua Bona Lingua Mortua Est*

        I’m a jokester; I’d print it out, take it to the hiring manager, and tell them it’s the only viable candidate.

        I’d have the real stack of candidates ready to go immediately afterwards.

    2. Elizabeth West*

      Cringe. We got one of those at OldExjob, complete with a picture of the guy’s driver’s license. We had to keep it for a year per company policy. When I was cleaning out the files, I came across it and my boss was like, “OMG, I remember that!”

    4. Teapot Repair Technician*

      Dear AMM,

      I’ve applied to over 1000 jobs and haven’t got a single interview. Is this legal?

  125. Randi*

    Any tips on the “where do you see yourself in five years?” interview question?

    I’m currently in a support role with empty promises of advancement in a toxic environment, trying to escape to a lead support position at a company (university) I know would be a better fit with more opportunities. I’m also pursuing my first undergraduate degree, so I would like to move on from support positions once I graduate.

    I’ve already interviewed once with this company (lost out to a last-minute internal candidate), so I know this question is on their entry-/mid-level interview list. How do I answer in a way that shows I’m dedicated and excited to excel in the support position, but also that I’d like to grow with the company as I gain experience and education? Right now, I feel so stuck that the only thing echoing in my brain after that question is “Hopefully not still with Acme, Inc….might have to start ‘drinking the koolaid’ if I’m stuck there for that long.”

    1. ferrina*

      My trick is to avoid the timeline. “Eventually I’d like to become a world-reknown ferret trainer, but that’s more of a 10-year plan. The next thing for me to is to find a position that focuses on X and allows me to build/refine my skills in Y, at a good company with [must have cultural aspect] where I can stay for at least the next 3-5 years.”

      The question isn’t about your actual timeline, it’s about understanding what you want out of life and how this job fits in to it. If you are telling me that you want to be a VP in 5 years, and you are fresh out of college, I’m gonna get worried. It’s totally legit to say “I’m not entirely sure. Right now I’m focusing on developing my skills in Y. I know that there’s several directions where I could take my career from there, but I don’t feel like I know enough about them to know which one is the best fit for me. That’s why I’m so interested in this job- it allows me to develop X skill and be in an environment with experts where I can learn more about the industry.”

      1. Randi*

        Thank you! Your last couple of sentences are pretty much exactly what I’ve been trying to put into words. I have a general idea of where I’d like to go, but I don’t have enough working knowledge and information to describe my exact desired trajectory yet. I’m so thankful for this community, really. My mom was my go-to for these things, and I’ve been feeling a little panicked and adrift about work and life since she passed a couple of years ago. Y’all are a blessing to this 30-something trying to break out of generational poverty.

  126. C'est Moi*

    Question re asking interview questions about the job:

    I applied for two project coordinator jobs a day apart. One is local; the other is not. The local job post stated, “Smartsheet and Microsoft Excel proficiency are a plus” the out-of-state job post said, “tracking invoices/POs and other financial tasks.” I’m horrible with numbers but it’s task-dependent, so this doesn’t necessarily mean I couldn’t do that aspect of the job(s) depending on their definition of tracking.

    The local job wants a phone interview next week—I’m hoping the other one does too (fingers and toes crossed!)—but the question applies to both. I’m struggling with how to ask about these elements without disclosing a disability or sounding like I don’t want to do that. For example, I don’t know what processing invoices entails. So I’m not sure how to ask for more information if they say “It’s processing invoices for Accounting to pay,” or something similar.

    “Tell me more about X” seems too general. Any suggestions for wording?

    1. WellRed*

      I’m more concerned that it says “other financial tasks.” But, that could open it up for a more in depth convo about what other tasks there are plus what does invoice tracking look like.

      1. C'est Moi*

        Yeah, that bothered me too. That one is a larger company. Glassdoor says the company pays well and it isn’t in the main city where rents are stupid high, so I applied anyway.

        I can watch a budget and alert someone if expenditures are getting close to a threshold, I can carefully enter data in a spreadsheet, and I can keep track of files and documents. All those are things I did at other jobs and some were budget/accounting department-related.

    2. ferrina*

      Good for you for asking for more information!

      It sounds like you already know what specific questions you want to ask:
      “The job ad said that part of this job includes tracking invoices. Can you tell me what that entails?”
      If they say “the usual”, you can say “I actually haven’t done that before. What is the usual?”
      It’s okay to say that you haven’t done something in a job interview! A good employer will appreciate you being conscientious.

      1. C'est Moi*

        Ha, I was worried about that too, that I would sound like my secret identity is actually N00bMaster69.

        As I was typing my question, another request for a phone interview from another out-of-state application I’d actually moved to my No Response folder came in! 0_0

        I’ve been including why I want to move to the area instead of just that I want to in my cover letters. Now here’s hoping for a job that pays enough for me to live there and where they’re not all COVID deniers.

    3. Teapot Repair Technician*

      They may mean you would work with the purchasing/planning and accounts payable departments to see that goods and services for your project are purchased and paid for as needed.

      In my job, if I need to purchase an item, it works like this: I request a quote from the vendor. Once I’ve approved the quote, I give it to our purchaser/planner and ask him to “write a PO”, which basically means he orders the thing and creates a document with all the details of that order. When the thing is delivered, and after I approve it, I ask the purchaser to “receive the PO”, meaning he changes the status of the PO to show we received the item. In the meantime, the vendor has sent him an invoice (or sometimes the vendor sends the invoice to me and I give it to the purchaser). When the PO is received, he gives the invoice to our accounts payable specialist, who then pays the vendor by credit card/check/wire transfer. In some cases it works a little differently if we have to pay for the thing before it’s shipped or delivered. At the end of the month, purchasing and accounts receivable review any unreceived POs and unpaid invoices to confirm that we’re still waiting to receive those items.

      I would guess you’d be involved in parts of a process similar to that, and the best way to ask how actually is, “Can you tell me more about what ‘tracking invoices/POs and other financial tasks’ entails?”

      Every company/industry probably does it differently, so no one will think you’re ignorant if you don’t know exactly how they do it.

      1. C'est Moi*

        *comes back to check this topic* Oh thank you; that’s very helpful.

        The tracking-invoices job rejected me. However, I’m sure other companies have a similar process. I’ll make sure to ask about it.

  127. Am I a Golgafrinchan?*

    How do you deal with an overly critical reviewer of your work (creative).

    I do creative type work, which can be subjective (writing, design). While you learn to not take things too personally, what do you do when you have one person (not my manager) who is just SO overly critical it makes you want to just ignore them on the review rounds?

    Detail:
    My whole team reviews most of my creative work. The majority of the feedback is fine, with the typical occasional “good catches,” and helpful feedback “add this bit, delete this bit, change this word or photo, it’s X instead of Y,” etc. But there is one who is just so overly critical of everything, to the point where he begins rewriting things, or he offers “feedback” that is neither helpful nor feedback. Example: On being shown a first draft of something and asking if people like the direction of the piece will say: “I don’t have much feedback except that it’s only 4 pages,” and then throws in some passive aggressive comment like “not sure what we are trying to gain with this now other than the deliverable.” You can’t win no matter if you show early drafts or later layouts.

    It’s not just me. He is like this no matter who writes or designs: internal or agencies.
    I would ignore him except that I work in a highly technical field and he is supposed to be one of the experts on a certain subject matter and I’m supposed to send things to him to review and confirm the technical terms are correct. But he’s becoming a real pain!

    My thought is that the guy just considers all marketing to be crap and marketing people to be useless Golgafrinchans. But my husband said it is probably because he doesn’t really want to be bothered to do the work of reviewing, and if he’s always critical he’s hoping he will be passed and not sent things because he’s a major pain to deal with. But he has also been known to throw a fit claiming he has never seen things, when I have sent them to him to review and he never responded. Any ideas on what game is this and how to deal?

    1. ferrina*

      Wow. He sounds like a tool.

      Who knows what his game is? Maybe putting other people down makes him feel superior to them? Does it matter?

      The good thing is, it’s not just you. Everyone knows he’s terrible to work with. So you can mentally put him in the same category as “that yappy chihuahua that the neighbors absolutely fail to control.” Annoying and occasionally painful to deal with, but ultimately that’s a reflection on him and not you. Don’t give him any more brain space (he’s not worth it).

    2. PollyQ*

      Keep sending things for review as you’re supposed to, but yes, go ahead and ignore absolutely everything he says except for substantive feedback, or maybe even substantive feedback that’s in his specific area of expertise. Treat everything else like Charlie Brown grown-ups “WAH WAH WAH.” Also don’t worry about whatever personal issues he has that are causing him to be such a pill. Not your problem, and almost certainly not something you can change.

    3. Apparently not a Golgafrinchan*

      Thanks for the reassurance! Sometimes when this sort of thing happens, you go to a place where you begin to think that you’re some kind of horrible. Especially if you’re prone to imposter syndrome.

      The guy is a real pill.
      And yes, people are seeing he’s critical about a lot of things.
      There was a bit more to this story but it’s too detailed. The person often attempts to shift their own shortcomings, and marketing just happened to be one of the recent targets. Perhaps they should get a marketing job if they feel they can do better? LOL!

      I will just keep being professional, including them on reviews, make any of their substantive changes, but freely ignoring all other passive aggressive comments and disengaging with them somewhat beyond that so I don’t let them be a drag on me.

  128. aiya*

    How do I initiate a conversation with my manager about getting promoted?

    I’ve been in my position for a while now, and have gotten high praise from everyone on the team. I joined the team at a particularly tricky time and got thrown into a high profile project with very little training and guidance, but I survived! As a result, I’ve gotten praise from both of my managers, colleagues across other teams, and I’ve been told that my work has been noticed by upper management (whoo!). I’ve been taking on a lot of tasks beyond my pay grade and surprisingly really enjoy it. I know that I’m roughly around the time where people in my position gets promoted (based on my conversation with others who have been in my shoes at this company), but I would like to proactively show my interest in the promotion to my manager, rather than wait for HR or my manager to bring it up to me. I plan on bringing this up in our 1:1 check ins, but I wasn’t sure how exactly to bring this up – as in, how do I phrase this diplomatically? We’re a pretty casual office, but I still want to sound respectful and not come off as entitled.

    1. ferrina*

      “I’m really loving [job aspect], and I’d love to make my way up to being [promotion title]. What do I need to do to achieve this?”

  129. Time for Tea*

    Just learned that a former crappy coworker got his work account hacked because he didn’t follow the (basic) mandated security protocols. Oh, and this is about 6 months after my former crappy boss forced me to allow him access to our software with sensitive information because “Crappy Coworker won’t stop whining, so might as well give him what he wants.” (the software had NOTHING to do with his job, but his argument was “how do I know if it doesn’t have to do with me if I don’t have full and unfettered access to it?”)
    I left the company earlier this year because of shenanigans like this, and I am loving the karma

  130. LemonCakeSalad*

    What is the appropriate way to thank a supervisor and coworker for penning letters of recommendation on your behalf? Do you send a hand written thank you note or a small gift as a token of appreciation? If a small gift, what would be appropriate?

    1. ferrina*

      A hand written thank you note sounds lovely. No need to do anything more than that. If you want to do something small, baked goods?

    2. Alexis Rosay*

      A handwritten thank you note, and be sure to let them know whether or not you get the opportunity later on. I don’t think there’s any need for a gift unless the process was particularly onerous.

  131. Cold Feet*

    I have a job offer and I don’t feel any excitement about it. It sounds good on paper, but I feel like I am in a current that is pulling me toward the inevitable as nothing else has panned out so far. Has this ever happened to you? Did you take the position, and if so, did it work out?

    1. ferrina*

      Were you excited after the interview, or meh? Were you interested in the job posting, or meh? If you were excited before, but aren’t now, ask yourself why? Was there something that was a red flag? Or are you nervous about the change? It’s really common to get cold feet at this stage, especially if your current workplace fosters co-dependency.

      If you were meh all along, then I’d weigh the job offer against your current situation. Is it good enough for now, or would you rather keep looking? Either answer is legit, but you need to do the one that takes care of you.

      1. ferrina*

        You asked if this had happened to anyone else. Back in the day, I was between jobs. I had a chosen field I wanted to go in to, but couldn’t get my foot in the door. I was at a point where I’d take any office job. I fell into a job that fit some of my key skills- fast paced, mix of analytics and client relations- even though it didn’t meet my life goals. Well, 10 years and three jobs later, here I am, excelling in my field and happy on most days. It’s not the thing that I will brag about at the end of my life, but it gives me the resources (including mental energy) to do the things that I will brag about.

    2. Sensitive Chef*

      I was feeling uneasy and not excited about starting my new role, even though it was a great opportunity, I let others persuade me to go for it. Big mistake (see my post below).
      Can you think of any aspects of the role that might be putting you off?

    3. MissDisplaced*

      Some of this depends on how badly you need a job (if unemployed), need more money (salary, benefits), how desperate you are to leave current job (levels of toxicity or advancement), or hassles of getting to the job (commute).

      If you are generally OK with your current job and just looking, but feel very MEH about the change, I would seriously have doubts about why taking it. In general you should feel somewhat more excited about the prospect for any of the above reasons. But if you feel you’d just be swapping one thing for the same thing, I would give myself pause. Of course, it is also normal to be fearful of change… so you need to sort out if your ambivalence is stemming from very normal feelings of nervousness that will pass quickly.

  132. Vesuvius*

    I appear to currently be living the plot of a legal thriller novel, but with none of the fun and all of the “HOLY COW WHY IS THIS LEGAL.” (It’s not! It’s retaliation and I am EXHAUSTED. Just, you know…WTF?!) I have been able to get legal advice, but I am so exhausted just trying to stop panicking about it all. In November of 2020 everything went to hell in a handbasket when I finally put my foot down and said, “you can fire me, but I’m not doing this!” It’s been almost 11 months. Does anyone have advice on how to get away from this for even two days so I can recharge? I picked a very reasonable hill to die on, by the way. I will probably write in to Alison for advice on the bigger issue, because I can’t find a situation like this in the archives.

    My ex-boss has also started lying to everyone about my dates of employment. I do not understand his problem. I am really tired of this BS and I’m done dealing with it.

    (In all seriousness, I am exhausted. I am in the HR vetting process for a government job and this is a whole new level of BS. I had a secondary impromptu interview yesterday for this job and thank God my interviewer took my side; I’m now aware of the punitive reference and can do something about it. But I am still exhausted.)

    1. Reba*

      I hope your hiring process goes somewhere soon!

      I’m not sure if you are asking how to take time off when work is wild, or if you are asking more how to relax and set work stress aside.

      If the latter, what setting soothes your spirit? I know that for me, doing things that get me into my body helps me set aside swirling thoughts. And getting out under some trees is important. So in your shoes, I would be looking at booking a little cabin within a few hours drive of my home just to *be* somewhere else. But a day hike — or day at the shore, or a few hours spent walking by the river, insert your outdoors of choice — would also be an option.

      1. Vesuvius*

        I’m asking how to relax and set job-hunting stress aside. Currently it feels like I just can’t get away from my ex-Grandboss’s attempts at wrecking my job hunt and driving me out of the field. He’s not being very successful but it’s like every other day I have to deal with another obstacle he’s created. Thankfully a friend tipped me off to the fact that Hell Manager (whose behavior I reported, which caused the harassment/retaliation campaign) has been demoted, so I could make sure she was blocked on social media. I have preemptively blocked a few other numbers from that company as well, knowing they’re trying to blacklist me, because I don’t have it in me to deal with more BS.

        As far as renting a cabin or something, I don’t have the funds for that but a day trip sounds nice. I have been trying to take time away from the job hunt. Part of the problem is keeping up with housework as my partner is fulltime and I am not at the moment.

      2. Vesuvius*

        Edit: I have also been making myself vaguely ill trying to fix all this because I had to recount the entire incident to clarify what happened. I was extremely worn out yesterday because I spent Thursday doing the follow-up interview. Usually housework is calming, but sometimes I just hit “I have used all my spoons,” according to spoon theory, and this week has been especially draining for me.

        I probably should have just laid down yesterday instead of posting. Lesson learned, lol. I feel better today.

  133. Sensitive Chef*

    I left my nice easy bakery job a month ago, for a better paid, higher role in a more prestigious Hotel/ restaurant and I am MISERABLE and terribly anxious. Luckily I have managed to get my old job back, but I am supposed to give a month’s notice. I have witnessed behaviour from a couple of people in the team that I feel is unacceptable, and I am thinking of quoting this as a reason to leave earlier. But I’m worried they will probably feel this is a normal kitchen environment and will just make my remaining time more uncomfortable. (Referring to other team members as the R word, hostile behaviour towards waiting staff, announcing how s**t other members of the team are when they are trying their hardest.
    They are horribly understaffed, and this will leave some people working 70 hour, 6 day weeks, sometimes finishing at 11:30pm, back in at 7am. I feel awful about that, but I’m barely getting through each day. Should I stick it out until the end?

    1. Ginger Baker*

      You can leave. 2 weeks is the most I would give but if this place is damaging your ability to function, leave earlier! What Disaster Place “wants” is really not that important, especially presuming you are secure with your role at Old-New Place. Like the romantic partner you just broke up with, DP can make whatever ridiculous requests they want but they *don’t actually have any leverage on you* and you can happily be OUT ASAP YESTERDAY. <3

    2. FD*

      You’ve been there for a month. If you can afford to, walk.

      If they act like that towards their wait staff and use slurs, they don’t deserve any courtesy from you. I agree that that may have negative consequences on some coworkers and that sucks. But if management is going to be shitty then they deserve to live with the consequences.

      1. Sensitive Chef*

        Thank you for your reassurance!
        I brought up the instances with my manager, who said that he had called a waiter an idiot the day before and it was warranted (I feel that this never acceptable). He then turned it around on me, and said that I had a bad attitude because people can tell I’m unhappy- which I apologized for but pointed out that I am always polite and friendly, and was told off for not coming in early for my shifts (I work 12 hour days with no break). I asked to leave then and there. Feeling better already!

        1. MissDisplaced*

          Oh goodness! Leave as soon as you can.
          Sometimes it’s ok to burn a bridge. You’ve tried to be professional, they are not. You wouldn’t want them as a reference anyway.

          1. Imtheone*

            You’ve been there a short time. Leave them off your work history. You can quit whenever you want. They have no say on whether or not you can quit.

  134. Ex-Tech Jobs?*

    Any former software engineers or similar shift away from tech? What are you doing now? I’m looking to slow down in the next couple of years.

  135. Fineshrine*

    I joined a presentation for a project’s kick off meeting and within seconds, I realized that the meeting creator copied my slides and used them as her own in the presentation, without credit or any mention that I’d made them. Earlier in the week, she did ask if she could reference them. I said yes, but I didn’t understand that she would literally take the slides and tell everyone in the meeting that she made them.

    I was at a loss for words. I shared the details with another meeting member in the chat, and he was equally stunned.

    I assume it’s pointless to confront her about this, right? I did give her the okay, but I didn’t realize the extent to which she wanted to use my work. To spend the weekend making something only for someone to…steal it, was a tough lesson for me about boundaries. I’m flattered that a senior person thinks my work is good, but also insulted that she presented my slides for all to see without a second thought.

    How best to move on and stay professional and make sure this doesn’t happen again? I’m new to the company and she’s been there for years, so if all else fails…my impostor syndrome (in terms of work quality and getting caught up) diminished big time.

    1. Pennyworth*

      Could you approach her as though it was a genuine oversight that she didn’t give you credit? Something like ”I noticed that you overlooked acknowledging that I was the person who created the slides in your presentation. Would you like to send out information correcting this oversight to the attendees, or shall I? Obviously I need my input to be recognized.”

    2. MissDisplaced*

      This happens to me all the time because I work in marcom. Lol! It’s my job to write and make slides for others. My work is not always acknowledged, but most people in the company know that now. And yes, occasionally I see “my” slides end up in other’s PPT decks.

      You say you are new to the company. Is it possible there is some genuine confusion about your role and duties? I think you should bring it up gently with your manager first but not frame it as “stealing.” You could ask if it’s common practice and the expectation to make slides for the executives to use for big meetings, and if so how often these presentations are needed.

      I say this because it may be perfectly normal there that an executive used your slides… because they view it as a team effort.

      1. Fineshrine*

        I get what you mean! We have slide templates created by teams that we can use to structure presentations. I’ve used those for formatting, but include my own content.

        The person who used my slides without credit isn’t an executive, her position is just senior to mine.

        I don’t think it was a team effort because she is from another team – it was a cross functional meeting. I shared out my slides earlier in the week for my upcoming meeting and then she used the same slides for her meeting. So anyone attending both meetings will see the slides twice, hers first and mine second (my meeting is next week).

        I don’t think this was normal practice, I just think I was new and naive. I think it’s one of those moments where I won’t say anything, but will learn from the experience. If I wanted to reach out, it’d have to be right after the meeting. I assume it would look petty to hold onto it into next week? I just won’t share my info with her again.

        1. MissDisplaced*

          Hm. It’s hard to say for sure, it is very normal at some places. But you also know best if your instinct was right and this person took credit for something they didn’t do.

          If you feel this is the case, you’re right not to share any more of your work unless your manager specifically asks you to do so.

          1. Fineshrine*

            Thanks for the reminder that this is normal in some spaces. Time will tell, and I’m aligned on not making a big fuss about it. It can very likely be no big deal.

            Content sharing is a good thing and I can learn the workplace culture a bit more before jumping to conclusions.

            1. Sea Anemone*

              Can you talk to your manager about it? You seem genuinely interested in learning norms, and that will be a good tack to take. Ask with curiousity, describe the situation dispassionately, and ask for their take. Try something like, “I wanted to get your take on something. I gave Susan a slide deck that I created so she could pull from it, and I didn’t realize just how much she was going to use. I would have credited someone if I used that many of their slides. Is that not typical here?” Again, an air of learning norms will be the key to getting a constructive answer. You can also ask whether they think you should speak to your colleague or maybe to someone else.

  136. What Can I Say?*

    I’m thinking of applying for a job and in the ad they list “established professional relationships in the…field” as a preferred qualification. Does anyone know what exactly they might be referring to?

    1. MissDisplaced*

      Huh, that’s a new one. Is this a sales or business development role? Is this with a nonprofit where fundraising is important?

      I see this important in some roles like that, where it is often about who you know.

      1. What Can I Say?*

        Its not development or sales but they mentioned something to do with good relationships with donors, so maybe that’s what they are alluding to?

    2. Alexis Rosay*

      Hmm. That’s a new one to me, too, but to me it would mean that someone has a general understanding of the ‘lay of the land’ in their field and knows some of the folks in similar roles at other companies or organizations.

      I used to work at a small nonprofit and while we didn’t specifically ask for this, it was obvious which staff members had an understanding of the wider context for their subspecialty and which did not, and it was certainly a huge asset when they did. For example, some staff would be able to say “Here’s the state of striped llama grooming in the region, folks at Org A are doing it this way and folks at Org B are doing it this other way, I prefer the approach of Org A and know the manager there; if we need to partner we can reach out to them, but if we want to apply for grants and want to differentiate ourselves, emphasize the contrast with Org B.” While others didn’t know or seem to care what anyone else in the field was working on or doing–which was fine, but people who got the wider context stood out more.

      It does seem like an unusual thing to put in a job ad, as I think it is possible to do a good job without that knowledge.

      1. What Can I Say?*

        You make a good point. I’ll definitely think about that if I apply or get to an interview.

        I’m having a hard time not seeing this as a potentially red flag, just because its out of the ordinary.

  137. Wen*

    A job post for my dream job just came up and openly lists the salary range (and it’s not bad!). It requests you give your expected salary in the cover letter. Should I just give the salary range they posted to be safe (as it is what I’m looking for too) or should I be more assertive and respond with the mid-point to the upper amount? Will that risk my chances?

    1. L. Ron Jeremy*

      Give them a tight salary range around the upper end of their range.

      Also, dream jobs are just a dream until you start and the cold slap of reality sinks in.

      1. Wen*

        Thanks. Any reason why a tight salary range? Will they take me more seriously or what if they rule me out over someone who gives a lower range? Because I’m fine with the lower end (it’s still more than what I’m making). I just don’t want to be ruled out before the interview.

  138. Hiding Behind a Tree*

    A while back I applied for a promotion. (Leaving out identifying details here) The posting was taken off the web site shortly after my interview, which I thought meant they’d picked a candidate. I haven’t heard anything and two postings for identical jobs came and went. On a mid-level coworker’s advice I followed up w HR and was told there was no decision yet on the job I applied for. I updated my boss, we talked briefly about what might be going on, and boss advised not me to follow up anymore. Boss also urged me to apply for one of the new postings. They were so adamant I wondered if they knew more than they were saying, but Boss’s communication style can be very very emphatic. I didn’t see the point of applying for Identical Job B or C if I wasn’t selected for Job A (all n the same department, same managers, etc.). This week I crossed paths w/ mid-level coworker and gave them the scoop. M-L C knows the job’s managers and the HR recruiter and was very surprised there was still no decision. M-L C urged me to follow up again, but I said Boss told me not to.

    I have been w the co. more than 10 years, but in a low position. Recently there’s been a flush of promotions in my job grade and management said they’d like to see more, so I thought I had a chance. But the people who were promoted had been doing special projects and getting leadership/growth opportunities for the past year or two. They’re also significantly younger than I am.

    I don’t know what to think. I don’t like to jump to conclusions, even “obvious” ones.

    Anyone have any thoughts?

    1. Reba*

      It’s stressful to be in this ambiguous kind of situation! I think you should talk with your Boss again, not about this specific hiring process but a more big-picture conversation getting clear about your growth and about those special projects and leadership assignments! You could say “as you know, I’m interested in moving up. Can we talk about what you think I’d need to show to be a strong candidate for these new positions that are being created? I’d be interested in doing special projects like X, would that be possible?” I hope your boss would be candid with you–although it sounds like they can be brusque, so seatbelts on, I guess. Then you can assess whether you think you have a sincere chance or whether this is just sort of an exercise and you won’t really be considered (“sure, you can apply, Hiding… go for it…”) in which case you can think about moving on.

      1. Hiding Behind a Tree*

        Thanks, Reba! Not too long ago, Boss mentioned giving maybe they could give me some Lama Design projects, then she moved one of the Lama Painters (a role higher than mine) up a notch in their grade and started them working with the Lama Design team. Boss frequently shoots from the lip and I wouldn’t be surprised if she doesn’t even remember telling me that. I know I have the option of following up with her, but I’m not too keen on chasing a wild goose. There’s a lot of rah-rah happy talk in this organization that leads nowhere.

    2. Miss Pantalones En Fuego*

      I think I’d follow the advice and go ahead and apply for one of the identical jobs. Maybe there are other plans that you don’t know about or some other reason why making a decision on the first one is on hold but the other two will not be.

  139. TheOtherJennifer*

    I have a slightly moral dilemma: I recently was promoted within my company after they split our sales team into four “revenue streams” – nobody wanted to be the leader so I am now the leader – fine, I have the same job, bigger clients just more paperwork and 3 direct reports. Reports are all people who have been doing the job right alone so not a lot of hand holding needed. I recently was able to hire someone from a previous company who will be a junior person on my team but has great upside and will grow within the role and was able to leave our previous toxic company. However, I am in the middle of an interview process for a better role at a bigger company and while no offer yet, it looks promising as I go through the process which means I will likely leave less than a month after my new hire comes on board. I feel a bit guilty bringing someone in although to be honest, I hadn’t even submitted anything to the new company before extending an offer to my new employee.

    1. MissDisplaced*

      This kind of thing happens!
      If you think your leaving might really impact the situation for the new hire (are they specifically leaving to work with you again?) you could give them a ‘heads up you *might* be leaving. I think also it depends on how close you are.

      But nothing is for certain, and they may want the job regardless.

      1. TheOtherJennifer*

        thank you. She’s already accepted the offer – it’s a big step up professionally as well as financially and I did reach out to her to invite her to interview. I just feel a little bad about it…she’ll be well taken care of by the other members of the team should I leave.

  140. bob*

    I contacted a previous manager by email to ask for a reference and never heard back, is it worth emailing again, or is that a tacit “no”?

    FWIW they really liked me but I only worked there for about 5 months. But it was my first job in my field since I moved to the country where I’m currently living though, so I don’t have a whole lot of other references that aren’t international.

    1. MissDisplaced*

      How long has it been? If more than a week or two, I think it is not rude to try ONE more time in case they didn’t see it, it went to spam, or they forgot. Maybe also try a different method like LinkedIn or their Gmail?

      And I would put in the email exactly what you said: “I know I only worked at X Company a short time, but I enjoyed working with you and your reference would be very much appreciated as you are local with X Country and most of my other references are international. Is my work something you feel you could speak to?”

  141. BadApple*

    I’m interviewing for a job, and they keep using their first names in email sign offs, and introduced themselves via their first names. It is a staff role supporting faculty in academia. Does this mean I start addressing emails to them by their first names in email instead of Dr./Mr./Ms.?

    1. Bayta Darrell*

      I always follow people’s lead. I address them as Ms./Mr./Dr./Rev./etc. LastName but if they sign their email as their first name alone, I take it as approval to switch. However, I wouldn’t fault you for sticking with the last name if you want to err on the side of caution.

  142. retired*

    Activist here. Change is possible but it is very hard work Most people do not want to work that hard. They vent on social media; they don’t go to all those boring meetings where they could learn about the system, who runs the system, and how to change it. You don’t need a lot of people, but they have to be willing to do that extra hard work and give up other things in their lives that are more fun.

  143. Cosmerenaut*

    Hello, I’m brand new and stressing out a bit.

    I have Indeed alerts set up weekly for my current company (contractor) and some of the ones posted in the last week are my job and a couple other coworkers. Obviously I’m biased, but all of us have only received positive feedback in the four months we’ve been there. Due to supplying issues work has been slow recently, plus there’s the usual brouhaha about a government shutdown. This personally stresses me out because I lost my last job suddenly. No complaints about performance, but terminated ‘without cause’ and eligible to be re-hired.

    Anyone had a situation where they saw their exact job posted and it was NOT a reason for alarm?

    1. SG*

      There could be other explanations — Alison has addressed this question more than once; if you search through the archives, you should find some of her answers to similar questions. I’m bit confused because it’s unclear whether your contracting company posted the jobs, or the contracting company (where you do the work) posted the jobs. But one thing you could do is just ask your boss! They probably wouldn’t tell you the truth if you were going to be let go, but their reaction and how they respond to the question will also be very telling. And there may be some sort of benign explanation like that they’re hiring more of you; the jobs get posted annually to keep a pool of potential employees, etc.

      1. Cosmerenaut*

        Thanks for the reply! To clear up, who did the posting, it is the former (the contracting company, not the location I work at).

        Feeling a bit more reassured because it’s looking like the next FY will be busy, and in the course of a conversation with a family member who has also done contracting work, I connected the dots between that, and the fact that the hiring process for me and my coworkers took months. Feel a bit silly for not thinking of that soon, but it’s probably a combination of the current slowness and the reactive mindset I was in.

        I’ll check out Alison’s archives for more!

  144. Sandra*

    I finally got an interview with a company I’ve wanted to work for for a very long time in a role that is spot on to what I’m looking to do long term. Problem is the salary they’re offering is about $40-50k below both what I know to be market value and what sites like Glassdoor are listing for positions at this level at this company.

    It sounds from the recruiter this was set intentionally low though they’re frustrated that they can’t find quality candidates at this range. The role has been posted for at least 2 months.

    I guess my question is how realistic is it to expect them to budge on salary given they’re intentionally lowballing candidates but also itching to hire someone and seem to be interested in me (I’m being fast tracked through the process). I’m not willing to take a paycut or undervalue myself by accepting a below market rate salary.

  145. Luca*

    Several states have passed legislation making it illegal for recruiters to ask your current salary and also making it mandatory that they disclose the salary range if asked in the first interview. Many recruiters, however, are still up to their old tricks being coy about pay bands. Curious what would be the best way to remind recruiters of this new law when they refuse to disclose a role’s salary…without coming across as an ***hole?

    1. fhqwhgads*

      Pretend they must not have realized that btw there’s this new law. Basically frame it like you’re letting them save face and Of Course they will comply now that it’s been pointed out. Even if the law is several years old at this point. If they continue to refuse at that point, they’re the asshole.

  146. Yo yo yo*

    Is it wrong to expect a supervisor to defend their employees when people unfairly assume things about them?

    My coworker and I had this issue with ours when we turned to him with issues we were having. My coworker explained her anxiety to him, and while she did her work well and tried to improve when she needed to, our team lead and other coworkers seemed to believe she was a goof off. She’s also shy, so she doesn’t speak as much as some other people. Our supervisor knew that our team might have thought poorly of her, but he never really helped her communicate her anxiety to anyone else and he never stood up for her in lead team meetings.

    My issue was with harassment that I reported to him. He knew the severity of it and only passed on “fringe information” to our department head. During this time, apparently my lead and management team tried to get me fired for reasons I don’t know. He never told them my situation or how it was affecting me. Eventually my coworker and I were moved onto shorter projects and we’re laid off when those ended. When I found out people had thought poorly of me there, he asked if I wanted to return and if I didn’t, he didn’t see the point in standing up for me because it would diminish him and he didn’t know what he was defending.

    I know the answer could be that they just didn’t like us and we’re in at-will states, but is it wrong to be upset that we turned to him and he kind of just sat on what we told him?

  147. Hmmm*

    How do you know when it’s time to look for another job?

    I have a tendency to stay at a job for the wrong reasons – fear of not being dedicated, maybe I’m complaining, things aren’t great but overall not bad, i work with a great group. However in the end I seem to end up with the short end of the stick.

    1. TheOtherJennifer*

      When you complain to your mom and she says “ok, you’re not happy, time to move on”. If they change things up on you, change your job responsibilities, don’t give you the tools or systems you need to be successful, making things up as they go along, crying cash poor – but the Europeans are headed for a company boondoggle…those things wear on you pretty quick and likely not to change in the near future. Job market is too hot right now to stay where you are miserable.

    2. Flower necklace*

      I left my last job when I knew that my experience/expertise was never going to be valued. In hindsight, I should have left sooner. It wasn’t the type of job where people stay long-term (teaching overseas). My own fear and uncertainty were holding me back, but, in the end, the lack of respect pushed me to leave.

      I’ve never been great at advocating for myself. Thankfully, I’ve ended up in a position where I don’t have to be loudest voice in the room to be seen and valued.

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