open thread – January 14-15, 2022

by Alison Green on January 14, 2022

It’s the Friday open thread! The comment section on this post is open for discussion with other readers on anything work-related that you want to talk about (that includes school). If you want an answer from me, emailing me is still your best bet*, but this is a chance to talk to other readers.

* If you submitted a question to me recently, please do not repost it here, as it may be in my queue to answer.

You may also like:
{ 1,232 comments }

{ 1,232 comments… read them below }

  1. 1,000 Snails in a Lady Skin*

    Hi – would love to get thoughts on an underperformance situation. I have an employee who has regularly for the past 2 years had issues with time management / deadlines and attention to detail / following directions. We discussed it very seriously at her previous annual review 6 months ago.

    She is pretty good at most of her job (though I’d describe her more as average than amazing), but incredibly unreliable – if I ask her to do a new task, it will often get to me late (my deadlines and expectations are clear at this point). For her regular tasks, at least once or twice a month they’re not done by deadlines. She also is at least once a month confused by a task that we have clear documentation for and has shared incorrect information with other teams (though all fairly minor).

    The business impact of all of this is fairly low and nothing is actually on fire, but the problem is I spend an inordinate amount of time coaching her and working with her on what seems to be very basic professional expectations – and am therefore unable to dedicate time to my other employees or my actually important, impactful projects for the business.

    I’ve been working with HR on tools to help for the past 6 months, and now HR is suggesting a Performance Improvement Plan. Part of me is hesitant because these issues just don’t feel BIG enough (again, nothing she does actually hurts the business and she does do most of her actual work fine when it does get done), but I’d love to hear other perspectives on whether that makes sense. Thanks!

    1. ThatGirl*

      Have you had a come-to-Jesus big picture talk with her? That she needs to improve on these things on her own or it may come to a PIP? Like, I would just lay out the stakes for her, if you haven’t already. It doesn’t have to hurt the business to be a problem. But I do think you owe it to her to be clear about expectations and how she’s not meeting them.

    2. Roscoe da Cat*

      If you are spending too much time just to make sure that her work gets done, then it is a problem. You shouldn’t have to handhold an experienced worker and it sounds like you can’t trust her to get her work done by herself. It is a major problem actually. Can you narrow done what her issues are – is she disorganized? Bad time sense of how long it takes to get work done? These types of questions can help you create a PIP that actually helps her improve.

    3. IL JimP*

      “Part of me is hesitant because these issues just don’t feel BIG enough (again, nothing she does actually hurts the business and she does do most of her actual work fine when it does get done), but I’d love to hear other perspectives on whether that makes sense.”

      It is a big issue, it’s costing you time which is harming your ability to help others on your team. Just think of adding up all the hours you spent having these coaching conversations and documenting them over the 2 years. I’m sure it adds up. This is a clear case for a improvement plan, and these plans don’t necessarily mean the person is fired at the end but gives them one last shot to get it together before you make that decision.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        It is a big issue. In the world of retail this employee would have been fired long before now.
        Missed a deadline? bye!
        Failed to do a procedure after being shown? bye.

        The biggest problem here, is that you think this is not a big problem. Nope. Please reset your thinking. It’s huge and it’s cause for dismissal.

      2. Be kind, rewind*

        Agreed! The time cost is definitely a huge factor, and I want to also point out the emotional/mental energy cost. It can be really draining to deal with repeated failures like this, even if each one is “minor” on its own, which further dampens a manager’s productivity.

    4. Tipcat*

      What hurts the business is that you are “unable to dedicate time to my other employees or my actually important, impactful projects for the business.” Also, when good employees see others getting away with poor performance, they can be disaffected enough to leave. Listen to HR.

    5. Katie Porter's Whiteboard*

      I get the desire to overlook issues that don’t have a big immediate impact, it’s a kind thing to do, but I think if I were in your position I would also be looking at a PIP. You said that you’re spending what sounds like a lot of time fixing her mistakes when that time could be spent investing in the work and other people on your team. That’s a bigger problem than you’re making it out to be. If I were on a team where an underperforming colleague was consistently causing more work and reducing the amount of support my supervisor could give me, I would be considering my options to move teams or job. Looking at the way you describe the work she does, you use a lot of qualifiers that lead me to believe that her output is poor. You say MOST of her work is FINE but that’s WHEN IT GETS DONE. So if it gets done, at best it’s fine? That status quo sounds pretty terrible.

      1. londonedit*

        Yeah, if she’s fundamentally unreliable then that negates any ‘well, she’s OK at most of her job’, I think. And she’s had two years to get better, you’ve had a serious conversation with her, and she’s still unreliable. I don’t think a formal improvement plan would be an overreaction at this point – clearly something needs to be done about the fact that you can’t rely on her to meet deadlines and you’re having to spend your own time and effort trying to coach her and sort her work out.

    6. lost academic*

      So if the problem isn’t as much on the business as it is on you, is there an opportunity for her to be moved to another line manager who isn’t as negatively impacted by the need to provide that level of coaching? That sounds to me to be an option to consider if it’s feasible. But if it’s not sustainable to give them this level of support going forward, then the business needs to look at the overall impact, including on your time and energy and capacity, and decide if this is an employment relationship they want to continue. And that needs to be made clear to this person too.

    7. Nonprofit Exec*

      I would have moved toward firing her at least a year ago so a PIP is definitely not an overreaction. Look at the impact you described on your business. You can’t keep someone on who takes up this much of your time. Well, maybe in this labor market you need to but not in a normal one.

    8. Kess*

      Is the sense that you get in working with the employee on these issues that she feels overwhelmed and can’t get the work done, or that she is straight up forgetting these things? I’m neurodivergent and can sometimes have brain fog that makes it extremely hard to remember and make a plan for what to do on a given day. I have methods for helping those days not be disastrous, but it’s something I generally need to ride out and just prepare for the best I can. Forgiveness and support from my manager on those days is extremely helpful, since when I’m stressed that I might forget something I tend to move at a snail’s pace, and on days when I’m not feeling so foggy I am a stellar performer who can get a lot of good work done.

      All of this being said, if I didn’t know that what I was experiencing was an illness and I didn’t have the resources that a diagnosis and healthcare offers me, I would most likely be in a similar place to this employee, and might be scared to admit to my boss that I don’t know what’s going on.

      If it’s possible that she’s struggling because of some factor out of her control AND it’s not impacting the business in a majorly disruptive way, it might be worth having a conversation with her where you lay your cards on the table about this attention to detail being a serious concern and asking how she sees the problem and what she might want to try to improve her performance. Basically, before moving to a prescriptivist PIP it would be kind to give her a chance to offer her own ideas as to what might be going on and what could help. This might be how the PIP system works at your place of work already, but if not I’d really advocate for sitting down one on one and trying to work out a collaborative plan for trying to improve things together.

      1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

        Nod. Often I’ll not get things done simply because on the day I wanted to get them done my mind or body was acting up.

      2. 1,000 Snails in a Lady Skin*

        Great point. OP here and I’m neurodivergent myself but have always excelled in the workplace because I’ve been able to figure out how I need to manage my work. I think the problem here is that I have spent the past 2 years working with this employee and bringing this to here attention, offering various tools (to-do lists, time blocking, communication strategies, etc) that don’t seem to have worked. Agreed that next step seems to be one last conversation before a PiP.

    9. High Score!*

      In normal times, I’d say the PIP is probably the way to go. But COVID is still reeking havoc on everyone’s lives.
      I’d suggest having having a discussion with her clearly outlining what you need improved. Like a pre-PIP. And ask if there’s anything you can do to help her get there.
      One thing I love about my manager is that she always tells the whole group to please let her know if there is anything she can do to help us be successful.

      1. Be kind, rewind*

        Yeah, I would combine this with the comment above about a “come-to-Jesus” conversation with the employee where the stakes are really laid out. (“These things are serious enough that your job could be in jeopardy.”)

    10. calonkat*

      There is someone out there looking for work who will do much better in this position. A PIP will be good if you think this person CAN improve, but it honestly doesn’t sound like they can.

      The sharing of incorrect information is really concerning to me. That’s a level of “doesn’t really care/understand what’s going on” that is very troubling in an employee of 2 years!

    11. Coder von Frankenstein*

      If she’s taking up a big chunk of your time, that’s a significant issue right there. Anything you don’t get done because you’re busy coaching her, that’s a cost to the business, too. It *might* sometimes be worth accepting that hit if her work output were stellar; but it’s not.

      I agree with HR, a PIP seems like the way to go here. It isn’t punishment, it’s a commitment to resolving a problem. You give her a clear warning that her performance needs to improve, and set clear standards for what that means. If she can meet those standards, you get the performance you need, she keeps her job, everybody wins. If she can’t, then you let her go–but without her being blindsided or unclear on the reason, and she can (with any luck) find a job that fits her better.

    12. anonymouse for this*

      Can you calculate how many hours in the last 6 months you have spent coaching her and what if any improvement she has shown during that time? Then think about out how, if you had that time back, you would have used it – on your own projects or supporting your other employees and what you would have expected to achieve. And then decide if she’s worth the time investment.

    13. Double A*

      As a teacher, when students have issues like this it’s a flag for me that they are struggling with executive functioning. Now, it’s my job to help them learn these skills, so I put a lot of time and effort into helping students learn strategies to keep organized, etc., as well as setting my own materials up in a way that makes it the least confusing and most accessible for them.

      It’s not your job to do more than basic coaching in this area, but do you have an EAP where she might be able to connect with a coach or therapist who specializes in help with executive functioning? Is there any professional development you could offer her — or propose that she find– that specifically helps people with organizational strategies?

      The issue sounds serious, but from the way you describe it, it doesn’t sound like laziness or an attitude problem, it sounds like she is lacking certain skills that are coachable but in a more profound way than you’re capable of. This type of work may simply not be a good fit for her, but if she wants to succeed, she will need to work on some fundamental skills and you could connect her with some resources it would be a kindness.

      1. Metadata minion*

        +1 to this! This has also been a *profoundly weird and stressful two years*. And I say that not to mean you should overlook errors of this frequency, but just that it sounds like a prime environment for someone with existing executive functioning issues that she’d had reasonably well in hand to really start dropping things due to increased stress and possibly rapid routine changes.

    14. V. Anon*

      I have had people like this on my team and I can almost guarantee you that the rest of your staff is low-key pissed at her for never getting it together but mostly losing respect for YOU for not managing it. If the rest of your team is reliable and on-time but you spend all your time with the one person who can’t seem to do the job, what message does that send? Are they getting nice raises and mentoring to make up for having this drag around? If not, you are slowly creating a situation where your best people leave and you get to devote all your time to getting a low-performer to perform at all.

      1. Belle of the Midwest*

        As someone who has worked alongside someone like this person, I second this comment. The rest of us ended up having to pitch in at the last minute many times when she couldn’t get the work done on time and as much as we liked her personally, we reached a place where she was so unreliable that we didn’t want to give her anything important to do. For me, it came to a head when she’d agreed to edit a Power Point for a presentation and I was actually calling and texting her an hour before when she was STILL working on it, to tell her to get to the presentation site NOW. after that, I said, no more. Not long afterward, our directors finally put her on a PIP and she was dismissed. I am still in touch with her and after a really hard six months or so, she found part-time work in an adjacent field and then went to a full-time job at another institution, where I assume she is still working and hopefully has a more limited scope of work to do.

        As a manager, you don’t want to gossip about her to the other team members, but if they bring concerns about her to you, you need to listen and take them under advisement.

    15. Dust Bunny*

      Yeah, but they’re not improving (or any improvement isn’t really sticking), they’re sucking up your time, and it’s been two years.

      I’m on team PIP but if you can’t be convinced to do that you need to at least “pre-PIP” about how serious this actually is, and then be ready to do it for real if/when things slide again. If you’re spending this much time on her you’re not as available for the rest of your job and your other, more competent employees.

      You’re not saying that she’s a terrible person, dumb as a brick, etc., you’re just saying that her capacity to do this specific job isn’t measuring up. I’d be a disaster as a lawyer, teacher, wedding planner, any number of jobs, not because I’m terrible or stupid but because my personality and temperament are wildly ill-suited to them. But I don’t work in those.

      Also, a PIP =/= firing. A PIP is an effort to *not* fire her.

    16. Anon attorney*

      The individual tasks she isn’t doing might not be that significant, but their cumulative impact is because it’s taking much more of your time and energy than is productive. A PIP should be a framework for setting clear expectations of performance and the consequences of not meeting them. If it is clear and achievable then it is a fair approach. I’d also want to check there are no ADA issues which need addressing by accommodations, and provide any skills training she needs to be able to achieve the PIP metrics. But really, it is also about getting yourself out of the mindset that she is a good performer. Being able to do some of the job adequately does not cancel out an inability to do the rest.

      Is there another role in the business which might suit her better?

      1. All the words*

        “Is there another role in the business which might suit her better?”

        Sometimes this is the best answer. I was the struggling employee a few years ago. Luckily I’d been with the company long enough to have established a strong reputation as a reliable employee and an asset. My manager recognized that I was struggling and helped me to transition to a different role where I’m now doing great.

    17. JSPA*

      Suggest she check in with employee assistance for focus, schedule and time management strategies, rather than re- inventing that wheel. They can take it from there. Strategies work, whether or not there is also something diagnosable in play; if there is potentially something diagnosable in play, they can include “get seen” in their large list of options, in ways that you (legally and by professional norms) cannot.

      1. Seeking Second Childhood*

        The one thing I will ask is weather this person has a single source of work or if she is getting pants from multiple people. If it is clear who she reports to and if it is clear that she takes assignments from only that person, she is a problem. But if is being given assignments by several different people who do not coordinate their deadlines, the system is a problem that is setting her & you up to fail.

    18. Just stoppin' by to chat*

      Seems like it’s time to part ways with this employee. If you shift your perspective and see that the time spent on coaching one employee is hurting the bottom line, since that’s time that could be spent in more profitable ways. If this was a new challenge then everything you mentioned you’re doing makes sense. But after 2 years…
      Or is this related to the pandemic? Either way, seems like a bad situation for both of you!

    19. anonymous73*

      I think a PIP is completely reasonable in this situation. Expectations have been clear and she is not improving. You are basically ignoring all of your other subordinates and your own work to coach her on things that should not still be an issue. I would maybe suggest one final “this needs to change or you’re going on a PIP, but that’s kind of what a PIP is and it seems you’ve given her plenty of chances to improve.

    20. Bagpuss*

      It sounds as though the individual instances are not any of them high impact, but cumulatively it hs a fairly significant effect.

      I think a PIP is appropriate – bear in mind the purpose of PIP is to improve her performance, it’s not (or shouldn’t be) a box-ticking exercise to make it possible to fire her.

      It may be that she hasn’t really grasped that there is n ongoing issue, and a PIP may bring that into focus for her that yes, this is a big deal.

      If you haven’t had a formal dit down talk with her where you have been very clear about the issue, including the fact that you are seeing a pattern of behavior and naming the specific issues and that they are performance issues, then do that first, but that conversation should be very clear – don’t soften it it, and should include a clear statement that the next step if you don’t see clear and consistent improvement will be a formal PIP . As you’ve said here that doesn’t feel big, I wonder whether you may have been softening the message a bit too much when speaking to, and given her the issue that it’s not a big deal, or that you’ve been giving her advice rather than setting hard requirements , for example.

    21. Where’s the Orchestra?*

      I’m going to come at this from the perspective of someone else on your team (unclear if you have other reports). Is the extra time you have to spend with her time that is being taken from her teammates? For example they can only get ten minutes for a monthly one-on-one because you need to reserve thirty minutes for underperformer? Are they not able to get advancement type training or push-projects because of the extra time you spend on coaching? What about if the others have questions – do they have to wait longer to get answers because your not available to help because you’re back assisting underperformer with more questions?

      I don’t mean this to be mean, but it’s only fair to the rest of the team to evaluate her impact on the team just on how much of your time she occupies. When you’re two years into a job the employee is probably performing as well as they possibly can, they’re out of the training environment in most cases by now. So can the team afford for you to constantly be spending more time with her and less working with them?

    22. Osbert the owl*

      I know that it can be tough to put someone on a PIP when they are doing some of the work well (especially during COVID). I understand that it might not feel “big” enough to put her on a PIP and that it isn’t directly impacting the business.
      However, it’s been two years. You’ve had a serious discussion at her annual review 6 months ago. HR has been working on tools to help her. I think that a PIP is the next logical step. You don’t have to wait until things are actually on fire.
      I think Alison said that you should compare the employee not with “an average person doing this job”, but with “a great person doing this job”.
      And, as others have said, she’s probably de-motivating your other staff who are able to meet the deadlines and follow directions.
      It’s tough to do and I wish you good luck

    23. Purple cat*

      This person is well past time for a PIP. When I was struggling with guilt over putting an employee on a PIP my boss reminded me that I have an obligation to spend the company’s money appropriately. The amount of time and support you’re giving this employee seems out of scale with the payback you’re getting.

      The other thing to consider is that you can’t want success for this employee more than they want it for themselves. 6 months after a tough review with no improvement is squarely in PIP territory.

    24. Observer*

      Part of me is hesitant because these issues just don’t feel BIG enough (again, nothing she does actually hurts the business and she does do most of her actual work fine when it does get done), but I’d love to hear other perspectives on whether that makes sense. Thanks!

      I’m going to be very blunt. You are wrong. Period.

      She *IS* hurting the business in a number of ways.

      1. She’s keeping you from taking care of the things that you need to be taking care of.

      2. She’s almost certainly wasting other people’s time because of her confusion and mistakes.

      3. She shares incorrect information with people. That it has not YET been something major doesn’t make this of. If it’s happening as often as once a month, that means that she needs to be considered unreliable.

      4. Regularly missing deadlines means you can’t plan. It also generally messes up other people / departments’ workflows.

      5. This is almost certainly hitting morale in your department quite hard. People who are getting their jobs done, are looking at this and asking why they have to get their jobs done,and done well, when she gets to mess up and have no consequences. The people who need your attention to deal with issues, move their projects forward are looking at this and getting frustrated. The people who are suffering because you don’t have time to take on those other tasks and projects you mention, are frustrated too.

      You don’t need things to “actually be on fire” for the damage to be real and significant.

      The bottom line is that you totally need to reframe your thinking. This is not grade school where as long as you don’t get an F, you get promoted to the next grade.

    25. A thought*

      The first thing that struck me is the “two years.” That’s about how long we’ve had COVID to deal with. Was she reliable before that? The pandemic has put so much stress on people. And worse for some than for others — because they struggle with anxiety anyway, or depression, or don’t have reliable child care, or have lost family to COVID, or…..I know it’s a long time now to be giving grace to people, but it’s something I think is still warranted if you can swing it. I don’t mean you should do it forever, and there may be things to still do to assist/coach her, but a PIP or firing (as some have suggested) may be premature given the state of the world.

    26. Katie*

      “She does do most of her actual work fine when it does get done.”

      The “when it does get done” part feels kind of important!

    27. Public Sector Manager*

      Even if each individual event is not enough for a PIP, cumulatively it’s PIP worthy! If you keep telling someone they need to do X, Y, and Z, and they don’t, it’s either a training problem (which sounds like you’re on top of that issue) or an insubordination problem.

      You either need to do a PIP or some other form of expectations memorandum (“we expect you to meet deadlines,” “we expect you to be on time,” etc.). Informal conversations are great when a person listens and then tries to change. Here, the problem looks like the employee isn’t changing (or trying to).

  2. high performer*

    I submitted a question last week regarding half my team being out sick with COVID and the only other member being a low performer. I want to thank everyone for their input and provide an update. All the feedback was really helpful and helped me to think of multiple sides of the equation, but the resounding response was yes, I need to speak up to my manager about this. He needs to know.

    I pulled aside the manager we work with a lot, and she mirrored my sentiments. She had been on the receiving end as well to many of the low performance issues. She was planning on bringing this up herself, but I asked for her advice for how to best approach this with my manager to be most effective in getting the point across. There were two things I needed to get out of this conversation: clear feedback on the low performer, and communication that I was burning out from carrying such a heavy workload for so many weeks.

    By the time it rolled around that I had my regular meeting with my manager, he had already heard from the other manager on these issues, so it was really helpful that I was just reiterating that point. He has a plan of action, which I won’t share the details of, but he is taking appropriate action in my opinion. We also discussed me taking some time off in the near future. My other two coworkers have come back to work this week, but it’s obvious they’ve still got a lot of fatigue and some side effect conditions (pneumonia and such) that are keeping them from a full recovery. So in discussing some time off, we agreed to keep an eye on them and decide when a good point would be for me to take a day. It would benefit none of us if I took the day and all the work was still there because they couldn’t keep up, nor would it be beneficial if they weren’t up to taking on the extra work from me being out and delayed their recovery further. So we’re aiming for next week sometime. I’ve also been working this week to set further boundaries with low performer, single-tasking, replying to her messages much slower, not always being available, and pointing her to her notes and other training resources. I should also point out that I am the newest on the team, but we were all hired within a few months of each other and so have been taking on new responsibilities and advancing all together at the same time. Thanks again for your feedback, the hive mind was exactly what I needed in that moment.

          1. Lady Danbury*

            Pneumonia isn’t something you just tough out, especially combined with covid. Obviously I don’t know what their doctors have authorized in terms of returning to work but from the outside looking in that’s a HUGE red flag about your organization/management and their expectations for sick employees.

            1. high performer*

              No alarm bells needed! They thought it may have been, similar symptoms, but it was ruled out. Mostly fatigue and still coughing, but nothing serious.

              1. Mary*

                “Mostly fatigue and still coughing, but nothing serious.”

                This is serious with pneumonia! This could mean they are not getting enough oxygen into their system. Unless a doctor gives their okay for them to be working again.

            2. PT*

              I’m one of those Everything Settles In My Chest people who’s had bronchitis and pneumonia a bunch of times. That cough/fatigue period of being almost better can linger for weeks or months past when the doctor says “Looks good, get back to your regular life.”

              1. Metadata minion*

                Same here. There’s this horrible period of being kind of tired (but up enough to work, especially from home, and at that point I’m really sick of being stuck in bed so I *want* to work) and my voice still sounds like death but I actually feel fine.

    2. A Simple Narwhal*

      So glad to hear that your manager is taking things seriously and taking steps to address the problems!

      And great idea with making yourself less available for the low performer! I experienced something similar, a new-ish person kept asking me questions about things that they knew how to do and were well documented, and I figured that if it was always easier/quicker to just ask me rather than try it themselves or look it up, why would they ever change? So I stopped responding immediately to every question, or said something like “I’m in the middle of [project] right now, why don’t you play around with it/check our documents library/etc, and if it’s still a problem I can take a look at it around [later time].” Worked like a charm! 99/100 times I’d check back in and they would say they had solved it. (Note: these were always non-urgent things that I knew for a fact they were fully capable of figuring out for themselves, for real problems I was always willing to help.)

  3. Spam Call Magnet*

    I started my current role about six months ago, I have both a company-issued mobile phone and an old-school landline phone in my office.

    I am having issues with the amount of spam calls I receive on the office landline phone. In six months, I have received 1 or 2 legitimate phone call for me on the landline (everyone else emails me or calls my work mobile phone instead), and between 1-5 spam calls/wrong number calls everyday I’m in the office. These spam calls are largely from:

    – the same two people (I recognize their voices) soliciting donations to various fake charities (I’ve looked them up on Charity Navigator) — they call several times a week. I’ve asked both of them to stop calling me but they won’t. I’ve told them that I know they are representing fake charities and they hang up on me and then call again later on using a different spoofed number (which is why I can’t just block them).
    – numbers that call with no one there when you pick up
    – gift card scammers (the kind that are featured on Youtube channels like Jim Browning’s, that lure you in by telling you that you’re owed a refund by some company, ask you to screenshare with them, hack your bank account and demand you send them thousands in gift cards)
    – occasionally, I also get wrong number calls from other people at my (large) company. I’ve received a few calls asking for my predecessor who had this office and this phone number before me, and who left the company a year ago, so I explain that to them.

    I’ve tried several things with no/limited success:
    – I put this landline number on the Do Not Call Registry (I’m in the US) months ago — that hasn’t helped
    – I’ve contacted the telecommunications department at my company, and they say that spam calls are rampant in the company and they can’t stop them all. They can block a few numbers for me if I want, but that won’t work because most of these calls have spoofed numbers that look like they’re coming from our local area code and change every time.
    – I removed the landline phone number from my work email signature and just have my mobile phone there.

    Does anyone have any other advice? I guess my last recourse would be asking for the company to issue me a new landline phone number, though no guarantees the new number wouldn’t be subject to the same amount/more spam calls than I’m getting now. I suppose I could also see if I can silence the ringer on the landline and change the voicemail message to something like “please call me on my work mobile phone” without stating what the number is, so that people who are in my company and see my mobile phone in the directory can still reach me but others can’t.

    1. CTT*

      Is there any reason you can’t let all calls from unknown numbers go to voicemail and be diligent about calling back quickly if it’s legitimate?

      1. Ama*

        Yeah that would be my advice. I get maybe 1 in every 500 calls on my work line that are actually legitimate calls — they are either spam or for another department (we don’t have a receptionist currently so we have an automated menu and because my department is listed last people sometimes get to the end of the list and hit my department’s number because they aren’t sure who they want). So I pretty much never answer my work line unless I am expecting someone to call me; if they leave a voicemail and it is someone another department needs to speak to it’s actually a lot easier for me to forward the voicemail anyway.

    2. ThatGirl*

      I would change the voicemail message to “I am screening calls, please leave a message or call my work mobile phone if this is urgent”, silence the ringer or put on ‘do not disturb,’ and then just delete the scammy ones.

    3. Roscoe da Cat*

      I like your last suggestion!
      My work cell (federal agency too) is getting so many spam messages that I never answer it. I just call back when someone leaves a message.

    4. FisherCat*

      I would do the voicemail thing. The scammers/spoofers seem to just run down phone numbers more or less sequentially without regard to do not call lists or where they got it from. I’ve been getting spam calls on an unlisted/unpublicized number and I’ve not found a good way to stop them, only ignore them.

    5. Just a Manager*

      Don’t answer the calls. When you answer, the number goes on a list as a validated number and you’ll get even more calls. We have a company policy of letting all unrecognized calls go to voicemail.

      1. Not So NewReader*

        I am glad you said this. I noticed when I stopped answer all calls at home, the number of scams went down.

    6. Purely Allegorical*

      Agree with the others to set up a voicemail message that tells customers you are screening, but the inbox is monitored regularly and if they leave a message, you will call them back promptly. Then let all calls go to voicemail, and you could even turn off the ringer if possible so you’re not interrupted by it so frequently.

    7. DMLOKC*

      I would love a solution to this. We get 5-10 calls every day. It’s a shame that these calls to personal phones can be stopped legally but the calls to businesses cannot. We’ve gotten to where we just pick up then hang up the phone. It’s just too much expensive time wasted.

      1. FisherCat*

        Oh, no, the do not call list essentially no longer functions for personal numbers either since its usually offshore spoofing/scamming operations. I don’t answer any unknown callers on my personal number (obviously unless I’m waiting for something).

    8. I'm just here for the cats*

      Yeah, unfortunately there’s not much that you can do.

      I don’t know if this would be possible but does your office phone have the ability to connect voicemail to your email. At my work we have cisco phones and the IT people can assign the voicemail to an email. If you can do that I would just put the phone on silent/ turn off the ringer and then be dilegent about checking your email.

      I would certainly ask people not to call your desk phone. Maybe you can have an voicemail that says that you only check voicemail X times and if it is an emergency to email you. People who need to get in touch with you would have your other contact info.

      good luck, Spam calls are the worst

        1. Chilipepper Attitude*

          Pretend you have phone incompetence. “Oh, that wire connects the phone, I did not realize.”
          Or, “IDK how that got unplugged.”

    10. tw1968*

      If that office line is voip-based at all, you might be able to sign up with nomorobo to help block spam calls. Did this with my home line a few years ago, you can read up on how they do it but the end result is, if a # calls you that’s also calling multiple other people, they block the call. Your phone rings once and then the call is disco’d, if it’s a spammer. Real calls will continue to ring. Not 100% effective but kinda fun when you hear it ring once and then it stops and you say to yourself, that’s ONE LESS scammer/spammer I have to talk to!

    11. calonkat*

      My sympathies. When we got rid of our home landline a number of years ago, I took that number as my cell # (because it was so important to our lives, all the doctors etc had that number) It took multiple years of letting unidentified callers go to voicemail, but the number has finally worked its way off most spam lists apparently. Still get some, but not nearly as many. And the legitimate callers are willing to leave a message!

      A new number will have the same issues if it’s listed anywhere and may come with preexisting issues from the previous holder (my cell#/previous landline I know who the previous holder was dating, who they owed money to, etc)

    12. Spam Call Magnet*

      Thanks everyone! I changed the voicemail for this number to a generic message that doesn’t include my name, role, or company stating “I am screening all calls, so please leave a message or, if it’s urgent, call my work mobile number. Thank you.” I’m working remotely today but when I return to the office on Monday I’ll see if I can silence the ringer.

      FWIW, I get a fair amount of spam calls and texts on my work mobile phone (an iPhone) as well, but that’s easy enough to deal with — I have all calls from unknown numbers silenced and sent to voicemail, and if I did happen to answer the phone and it’s a spam call, the number gets blocked. Similarly, spam text numbers get blocked. I get a fair number of voicemails from people looking for the prior holders of this cell phone number but I generally don’t return those calls and hope that they’ll get the message.

    13. anonymous73*

      Yeah, I would modify your VM without giving the mobile number and just not answer the phone. You say most people call your mobile, so I think this would be the best solution.

    14. Beth*

      Oh, for the days when the Do Not Call registry actually worked! Back in another era, that was. It only worked on legitimate callers who paid attention to legalities, and those are now very rare.

      If you’re issued another phone number, you will get exactly the same number of calls. The calls when you pick up the phone and nobody is there? That’s the robocall system verifying that your number works. Once verified, your number is on all the robocaller lists.

      Robocall abatement options:

      For your cell phone, there are spam/robocall blocker apps. Just google “best robocall blockers android 2022” or similar to get the most recent reviews.

      For your landline, there are physical devices that use the anti-robocall databases used by the apps; they’re not always as effective, but they’re a hell of a lot better than nothing at all. I’ll put a link to a relevant article in a subcomment. If it gets stuck in moderation, try googling “best robocall blocker”.

      The ftc.gov website also has a good rundown of spam call blocking advice, with links to other resources.

      2. Beth*

        Yet another note: the anti-robocall apps often have a subscription fee. It’s worth it. You are paying for their databases to be kept as up to date as possible.

    15. Eether, Either*

      Yes, let the unknown numbers go to voicemail. If it’s legit they’ll most likely leave a message. (I realize that not everyone wants to leave a voicemail these days, but oh well.) I am the admin to a VP and she doesn’t answer unknown numbers. I answer them. I get those calls on my landline as well. The “Warranty Lady” has been calling me all week…

    16. Purple cat*

      Go for the super simple – just.stop.answering.
      I don’t even have a company cell phone and I don’t answer my phone. (Don’t even have one anymore due to hotdesking). Obviously everyone else has been able to reach you, so no harm caused.

    17. Hillary*

      I agree with the others – let calls go to voicemail. You don’t even have to change your message, just check the voicemail promptly and respond just as if you’d stepped away from your desk. We have VOIP phones and I don’t even log into the software for my “landline.” The people who need to reach me know to chat, email, or call my work cell phone. Voicemails go to my work email and I get less than one a month. The only one in December was semi-legit, a sales call from someone I’ve done business before.

      I also don’t answer unknown numbers on my work cell. The downside of that is I have to be diligent about address book maintenance.

    18. Observer*

      1. Have your telecomm people talk to your phone service provider about spam call blocking.
      2. See if there are any services you can use, similar to what’s available for cell phones.
      3. Don’t pick up the phone. Return messages.
      4. Put your number on the Do Not Call list and tell the repeat scammers that you will report their violations. That does scare some of them.

      I hope that some combination of the above is helpful.

    19. noahwynn*

      I forward my office phone to my cell phone. There is an app on my cell phone (Call Protect) that prevents most of the spam calls from getting through.

    20. MissDisplaced*

      Ugh! Yeah, my landline number at OldJob published on our website as a company contact which meant lots of spam and solicitation. Some of those people do not want to take no for an answer and become downright rude. We were also in an industry that can get some nasty consumer ire, and occasionally I got “screamers” accusing me of poisoning or killing people. Lovely.

      Send all those calls straight to voicemail and turn off the ringer!
      Check them morning and end of business day and say something to that effect on your message snd you’ll return the call next business day if necessary, or they can email at x.
      I recommend NOT giving your mobile number on the VM because they’ll only bug you there too.

  4. Missy*

    I’m looking for scripts for how to approach that I deserve a promotion with my boss during a performance review where I’m ranked ‘exceeds expectations’ across all the categories.

    It would be from a Teapot Marketing Manager to a Senior Teapot Marketing Manager and the day to day wouldn’t be too different. The senior level might be more involved in the big picture.

    I figure I can also talk about my career goals and my list of accomplishments at my current role, which I’ve been in for almost 2 years.

    1. Jaybee*

      I wouldn’t phrase it to your boss as ‘deserving’ because that’s not necessarily how your boss (or the company) looks at promotions.

      I’d suggest opening the conversation with “I feel like I’m succeeding in this role and am ready to take on more responsibility; what would be the steps for me to advance to a Senior Teapot Marketing Manager?”

      1. English Rose*

        Yes, this. Gaining their advice is both psychologically useful as people (generally) like to help, and their response will give you clues as to whether this request is viewed as way out of left field or expected. Good luck, let us know how you get on!

    2. JSPA*

      If you demonstrate with hard numbers how your exceeding of expectations has improved a) their bottom line b) their reputation c) their turnaround times d) their quality control score or d) some equivalently quantifiable metric / score, that’s a strong way to make the argument that 1. You’re worth more pay and 2. If they promote you, you can eventually train people to be diligent and forward thinking in the same ways that you are.

    3. anonymous73*

      Provide facts. Make a list, and run reports if you can to support it. I would also approach it as you’ve “earned” the promotion, not that you “deserve” it. Something earned can be proven, something deserved is more subjective sometimes.

    4. Agency Survivor*

      I just had an employee approach me about this and what she did was very effective. First, she told me she wanted to grow, was open to my feedback. Then, she began asking me if she could work on assignments that people in the role she aspires to be in were doing if she had completed her other tasks. She did an amazing job at this, and not only that, when I gave her feedback along the lines of “amazing job except for this minor XYZ” she asked for the chance to try another above-and-beyond project and this time didn’t have the XYZ.

      Finally, she approached me and asked me how she could get promoted. I am currently working through a development plan to do exactly that. With all the things she did already, I easily have support for this from the people above me who ultimately decide.

  5. Sunflower*

    Those who have been promoted at work-, what percent increase did you receive (and what was the breakdown between COL increase and new title)?

    I was just promoted at work. My new position is a newly created title/position- I wasn’t promoted into an vacant role. I haven’t been given direct additional responsibilities, moreso expanding on my current ones, and there’s no new job description. Given this, I don’t know if my expectations were too high as once I remove the COL increase, the raise was about 4% and much lower than some of my colleagues past raises.

    1. Lady Whistledown*

      4% is very low for a promotion! Definitely look at Alison’s salary survey to see if you can spot some comparisons for industry/role/title. My recent promotion to Director was an almost 30% raise (I had been underpaid in my prior role so this was a market adjustment + merit increase + promotion trifecta). 10% would be the minimum I would’ve anticipated for the promotion alone.

    3. ItsFridayI'mNotinLove*

      I’ve gotten promoted twice in the past year and a half (different companies). And was sorely disappointed by both. First promotion, which to years to achieve and I had to fight every step of the way was 5%. Second promotion at new company which they called “right sizing” not an actual promotion despite there being a title change, was 3%. There’s also a bonus structure which was not an option at the previous title. They wanted to only give me the bonus opportunity, and no raise, I negotiated to 3%… which should’ve been my COL increase anyway. So it did not feel like a great offer at all. Prior to my first promotion I was expecting a minimum of 10% so maybe my expectations were also too high. Or I got screwed.

    4. DG*

      That’s really low and, honestly, given inflation over the last couple of years is not a pay increase at all. In fact, I would guess you’re effectively making less than you were a year or two ago.

      My promotion raises in the past have been around 20%, but I would say anything less than 10-15% is pretty cruddy.

    6. A Simple Narwhal*

      My increase from “Teapot Manager” to “Senior Teapot Manager” (midlevel, I manage teapots, not people) was about 11-12%. That’s not adjusting for COL.

      4% seems low for a promotion. Out of curiosity, what did use for the COL adjustment? I quickly looked it up and the number for 2022 is 5.9%, way up from 1.3% for 2021. So I’m guessing your increase could have been 6-10% overall?

      1. Sunflower*

        I was told that 6% of the raise was COL – HOWEVER, we did not receive any increase at end of 2020 and were told the 6% is covering 2 years of that (3% is our standard COL raise). In total, I received a 10% increase.

        So thank you to everyone, I will definitely be doing some more research and going back to my boss next time we meet.

    7. So they all cheap ass rolled over and one fell out*

      I have gotten “promoted” to Senior twice and neither time did it come with any raise.

      The first time, I had given them one last chance for the promotion before I accepted the Senior job offer I already had in hand. “Promoting” me with a title change and no salary change was an insult, so obviously I took the other job.

      The second time, I had only been there a few months. For whatever reason they told me that they weren’t 100% sure about me when they hired me. But that I was already getting paid the same as the other seniors in the company. It was kind of funny that they were willing to put their money where their mouth wasn’t. They did give me a 5.5% raise in the next performance review cycle (but that included any cost of living adjustments).

    8. YourQueerEmployee*

      I just got a promotion last week (job title was XXX, now “Lead XXX”), and got about a 15% promotion. I’ll get a COL raise this month (based on my new higher salary). 4% seems way too low… I would think it shouldn’t be under 8-10% at the very low end.

    10. Elle*

      I had the advantage of this happening in a university set up where we have clearly defined salary bands, but my promotion this summer was close to 22%. Like you, it was about recognition of the reality of the role I was already undertaking, so I wasn’t actually taking on any additional duties.

    11. Anon in Ohio*

      My last promotion in Feb 2021 was a 20% increase plus becoming bonus eligible, and immediately followed up with a 5% merit raise, effective on the promotion salary, making it a 30% raise. 4% feels more in line with a high performing merit raise, not a promotion, at least in my experience

    13. Anonymous Hippo*

      The places I worked didn’t do promotions and annual raises together, they were separate events. I think the lowest promotion raise I got was 15%, and the highest was close to 30%. The lowest COL raise I evern received was 2.5% so yeah, 4% for a promotion seems very small.

    14. peachy*

      I recently accepted a role with a senior title in another unit at my organization that came with a 54% raise. I certainly didn’t expect to get so much–I just took a shot and named a number and they had no problem matching it. But I’d have expected at least 20-30%. 4% seems… stingy, to say the least.

    15. Fran Fine*

      I was promoted last year and received a nearly 13% salary increase. I also changed teams and started doing drastically different work than I was previously doing, so I thought the increase was fair. When I was promoted at a prior company for the second time, I received a 10% increase. The first time I received 7%. I believe that was the lowest promotion increase I’ve ever received, but the reason for that was because I would be getting a 3% merit raise six months later (so my promotion was 10%, but was split into two).

      4% is low, but I guess I can kind of see why they did it. You’re not really taking on any new responsibilities, just expanding on what you’re already doing and getting a title change. The 4% is really just a basic merit increase or cost of living adjustment at that point and that’s how they should have sold it to you.

    16. Lauren*

      Years and years ago, I was promoted into a vacant role from an hourly coordinator position to a salaried director position and received a 32% increase in gross pay. I don’t know what the COL increase was but received 1% pay increases per year, until my org nearly went bankrupt and couldn’t afford pay increases.

      Definitely request and push for an updated job description – or, rather, a new job description. Are you in a new position (new job description for the new position), or have new responsibilities added to your prior position with a change to your job title (updated job description)?

    17. Be kind, rewind*

      Every promotion I had at my most recent job has been around 10%. When it’s coincided with the yearly review, it’s been a 13% increase (3% yearly increase + 10% promotion increase).

      It also depends on how large the promotion is. This is easier to determine if your company has set levels for roles. For example, going from level 6 to level 8 should be a much higher increase than going from level 4 to 5.

  6. Werewolf? There wolf!*

    I have always been confused about personal leave. A previous job had all of these rules listed out about how it could be used. My current job doesn’t seem to care as long as you don’t try to extend a holiday or vacation leave with it; it only says ‘urgent personal business or emergencies that cannot be scheduled during non working hours’. I’ve only used it once, when I just joined my current job to clean out my desk and return a laptop from my last job because it had been locked down for months due to the pandemic.

    I always thought it had to be used for a business reason that had to take place during work hours. So would that be like, spending an afternoon switching banks or meeting with my accountant to do taxes? Or can that also be for important life things like closing on a house? My current job doesn’t seem to need a reason but I certainly wouldn’t want to suddenly be told ‘you misused your personal leave, we have to take vacation leave now’. What qualifies as things that can’t be done outside of business hours?

    1. SofiaDeo*

      I am guessing services that traditionally were 9-5 businesses. Banks, doctors, having to be home to let in/stay with a home service or repair, car repair, accountant. And since the descriptor at your job is “urgent”, I am thinking it is for emergency issues only. So if the internet service isn’t working or your car has a breakdown, use it, but not for a routine oil change on the car or a planned house closing. A planned wellness doctor visit No, urgent care Yes. Routine planned accountant tax visit No, time-sensitive response to a tax situation that suddenly cropped up, Yes. I am also guessing there are only a few days of the year for this, not full weeks. So it appears to be a perk that you use instead of having to lose time from your PTO for sudden small life crises.

      1. Werewolf? There wolf!*

        It’s definitely not for Doctor stuff, I haven’t plenty of sick leave I had to use recently for emergency stuff. But your logic on anything else makes sense. And yes, it’s only 3 days of personal leave, separate from my vacation and sick leave.

        1. Fran Fine*

          Yeah, all of my medical related issues (planned or unplanned) gets taken out of my sick time bucket. I use my two personal days at work for things like going to get my hair done (pre-pandemic), my birthday (that’s always one of my two days), and/or going to a cultural event like a museum or concert that happens during the day (again, pre-pandemic).

    2. Wine Not Whine*

      “Things that can’t be done outside of business hours” can be, literally, anything that depends on someone else’s schedule. If you can’t schedule your mortgage closing for after you’re off work because the bank is closed by then. If the only time your dentist can squeeze you in this month is 10am Friday. If your kiddo is in their grade-school play that’s being performed at 2pm on a school day. If you just need to spend an afternoon in the sun at the park.
      You don’t – or at least, shouldn’t! – have to justify personal leave. It’s part of your pay and your employer has no say in how you spend it.

    3. CV*

      I would even go so far as to say that “personal business” can include things like having to be home for a technician or something (assuming that you can’t work from home).

    4. AnonBeret*

      That’s so odd. I’ve had personal leave in two jobs and it was just that – personal. The only difference between it and PTO was that it didn’t roll over at the end of the year. Most people used it as PTO. We did have additional days available for moving days, physicals, etc., but personal days were personal and that was that.

    5. Colette*

      Where I work, personal leave is just another vacation day; you can use it attached to vacation (which is usually what I do) or as a day here or there. I’d say switching banks or buying a house would qualify, but so would volunteering when your kid’s class goes on a field trip, running errands, going to an interview, taking a day off just because, getting your yard work under control, staying home because you have a furnace cleaning scheduled, taking your car in to the garage .

    6. I'm just here for the cats*

      In my job we get 3 days of personal leave which is separate from are vacation and sick leave. Our Personal days do not roll over like the vacation days. Its basically like a personal holiday or something. You don’t have to have a reason. It’s any personal thing that you need to take care of. So it could be meeting an accountant or it could be for closing a house. Or it could just be you need a day off to clean your house before a family visit.
      You could see it for religious holidays that your company doesn’t close for. Sometimes parents will use it for when the school is closed.

      I think you should be fine. The difference is that its something that is usually planned unlike sick time which can be unplanned. I would just talk with your boss or HR to ask for clarification. Like maybe if you were out of sick time you could use personal time (but you cant use sick time for personal time, unless it’s like a doctor appointment).

      1. I'm just here for the cats*

        I just reread your post and I see that there is a clarification of ” ‘urgent personal business or emergencies that cannot be scheduled during nonworking hours’” I missed that part before. I think this is a little odd because any job that I’ve had personal days didn’t have any stipulation attached to it. All the more to contact HR or your boss to ask for clarification.

        I’m leaning more toward this was something they came up with for parents for snow days or something, But they wanted to be inclusive of all employees and called in Personal time.

        1. SofiaDeo*

          Right, the “urgent” part of it is unusual, but makes me think things that can be scheduled well in advance (like a house closing, or oil & filter change, or quarterly taxes) shouldn’t be included. OP states it’s not “Personal Leave”, it’s specifically to be used only for “urgent” things. I too have had “Personal Leave” in addition to Vacation and Sick days, but there was no requirement for it to be used for “urgent” things only. So IMO it should be used only for “urgent” situations. A burst pipe, not a planned visit to replace faucets. A flat tire, not an oil/filter change. An Urgent Care visit for Covid test or stitches, not a routine physical. It’s the “urgent” requirement that makes me belive it’s not the standard, do-whatever-you-want-with-it Personal Days.

        2. Dragon*

          I seem to recall hearing that personal leave was originally given to only religious employees, as an addition so they wouldn’t have to use their vacation time for religious holidays.

          However, that was considered discrimination against non-religious employees. So if personal leave was given, it had to be to all employees or to none.

    7. ThatGirl*

      “Personal business” has more of an emphasis on the personal than the business – mortgage closings, definitely; banking things, maybe eye doctor appointments, taking a pet to the vet, anything that can’t be done during the evening or weekend.

    8. Rara Avis*

      My employer has the belief that it’s personal — and so you don’t necessarily have to explain. I take it for non-medical appointments that have to be scheduled during the week (vet, appliance repair, etc.) I’ve also taken it for things like taking my parents to the airport after they helped take care of my daughter when I was on a work trip. I do know a colleague who asked to take a day for her birthday and was told no.

      1. Fran Fine*

        I do know a colleague who asked to take a day for her birthday and was told no.

        That’s ridiculous. I always use personal days for my birthday, lol.

    9. Not A Manager*

      I think you’re focusing too heavily on the word “business.” In this context, I don’t think it means “business affair.” I think it means “matter” or “concern.” You’re allowed to take off when you’re not sick, in order to attend to urgent personal matters or concerns.

    10. Picard*

      Our “personal leave” is limited to up to 3 hours in a day and is expected to be made up. If you have more than three hours, you are expected to take half day or full day vacation.
      So if you needed to get your tires changed for example and take a longer lunch hour, you can make up that time by staying later that day (or during that week) And yes this is for salaried workers that “technically” dont have hourly requirements.
      If you need to take an hour to see the dentist or doctor, you can choose to make up the time (personal leave) or use your sick time (hourly, doesnt have to be made up)

      1. Kimmy Schmidt*

        I’m confused. How is it “leave” if you’re expected to make it up? Isn’t that just moving around your normal hours?

    11. kittymommy*

      I’ve used personal leave for everything outside of being sick or dr appointments: hair appointments, banking, service calls to my house, getting my car worked on, etc., but I’ve only worked at places that differentiates between annual/personal leave and sick leave.

      1. SofiaDeo*

        Y’all, you are missing where OP states this leave is described specifically for “urgent personal business or emergencies”. Anything that normally and routinely planned in advance is not eligible. It’s a perk that allows not taking regular vacation or regular sick leave (or PTO if bith are lu oed together at this workplace) for something urgent that crops up, medical or otherwise.

        1. kittymommy*

          I’m not missing it, I just don’t think it makes sense (that’s not on the OP it’s on the company). There are things that can’t be done outside of business hours that may not be “urgent” or “emergencies” but still need to be done (and sometimes they develop into emergencies). I’ve never even heard of places separating vacation and personal so to me, vacation is that, an all day or multiple day event not a couple of hours her and there.

          1. Werewolf? There wolf!*

            This is the second job I’ve had that separated personal leave from everything else. I have X amount of vacation leave,Y amount of sick leave, and 3 or 4 days of personal leave. Also in both places, I get my personal leave in full at the start of the fiscal year but have to earn my vacation and sick leave over time.

          2. Spencer Hastings*

            I agree — “urgent” can just mean “time-sensitive”, not necessarily unplanned. I also think that if a company wants to make these distinctions, they should give examples of what would and wouldn’t count in the employee handbook rather than just giving the vague description the OP quoted.

    12. JSPA*

      This isn’t “business” as in, related to your past or present workplace.” It means “personal stuff that’s important.”

      House closing; taking someone* to a pressing medical appointment (*someone not otherwise covered under the terms of your medical leave); searching for a pet that dashed out the door; kid is in trouble for breaking a window; heater repairman (in winter, with a freeze predicted); getting a timing belt replaced when it’s starting to fray, before it rips loose and shreds your engine…or anything else similarly pressing.

      Not, “I hate my haircut”… but, “I needed an emergency haircut because a pint of tar fell on me” would count.

      Anything that has to be done NOW (or, in the near future, during work hours), to prevent your life from becoming significantly worse / significantly more complicated.

      1. Fran Fine*

        Not, “I hate my haircut”

        See, and this would qualify as an emergency or urgent event for me, lol. This is why OP’s company should have given examples of what are and aren’t allowed under this personal leave policy. Everyone’s definition of emergency/urgent is different.

    13. Ewesername*

      At my last job “personal leave” could be taken for family reasons – childcare issues, transporting family members to appointments. But it could also be taken to avoid burn out, which was nice. The only restriction there was it couldn’t be on a day where your presence was required..(ie- black Friday week, inventory, presentations etc)

    14. Nessun*

      We have a similar description in our HR manual, but basically we’ve always boiled it down to “something I had to do during work hours that couldn’t reasonably be coded to Sick Leave or Vacation”. So – picking up a parent for an appointment, or moving, or some appointments (such as the banking you mentioned), etc. One important comment: we don’t provide details on what we’re doing when we code time this way. It doesn’t go into our timesheets with a description, just X hours to personal leave time. We have a maximum amount per year, and we can use as we see fit, and it is not reviewed except to ensure you don’t use more than you are allocated. Scrutinizing why people take the time is seen as intrusive and unnecessary – the company expects you are using it appropriately and treats us like responsible adults.

    15. anonymous73*

      This is why I hate when companies break your leave into categories. I know some people hate PTO, but I rarely get sick and would prefer to use it how I see fit. Anyhoo, no 2 companies are going to define it in the same manner. If you’re confused, reach out to your manager or HR, or whoever approves your time sheet if you’re concerned about using it in the wrong way.

      IMO personal leave is to take care of personal things (not doctors or medical type appointments, that’s sick leave) that can only be done during the time you would usually be at work – banking, waiting for a repairman, etc.

    16. Admin of Sys*

      The only job I’ve had personal leave was one where there was time based schedules and they wanted to limit folks dropping out unexpectedly but still offer the option if there were actual emergencies. It was basically a way to allow a clearly defined limit of emergency leave without having to decide when ‘too much is too much’. (and of course, they could extend grace if necessary, but this way they had an easy cap to enforce)
      The key word for us was ‘unexpectedly’ – and from the statement of ‘urgent personal business’ I feel like they’re the same. Anything that wasn’t scheduled in advance and interferes with your ability to get to work (and isn’t sick-time related.) Furnace went out, plumbing disaster, car broke down, childcare emergency, had to go take your best friend to the hospital, whatever. For us, if you could schedule it, and knew about it in advance, it was PTO and scheduled in advance. If you called in saying your tire blew and you were changing a flat and would be 20 minutes late, it was personal time. So in that scenario, signing a mortgage is pto – you know when you’re doing it, put it on the schedule. But if you got called in the next day by the lawyer saying ‘can you stop by, we forgot to notarize page 4’ then /that/ would be personal time.

    17. Wisteria*

      have you tried asking your peers what kind of things they use personal leave for? That would give you a sense of the norms in this workplace.

    18. Robin Ellacott*

      Ours is pretty broadly defined as “essential personal business” when discussing the policy we mentioned things like being home to meet the plumber or having an appointment at the bank. We wouldn’t really police it, though – if someone said they wanted to take a personal day, or a few hours of personal time, we’d just say ok.

    19. Asenath*

      This is something that varies by employer, so you can ask what your current employer’s policies are. Some can be quite flexible. I had a job where there wasn’t personal leave as such, but “family leave” (as well as sick leave and vacation time) and “family leave” covered things like “The hot water heater started leaking and I have to wait for the plumber” to “I need to take the cat to the vet” as well as the more obvious situations implied by the name for the type of leave.

    20. Haha Lala*

      Honestly, it can vary so much from company to company, you really should ask your manager or HR (or your peers) for clarification. Ask for specific examples of how each time should be used– pre-scheduled dr appointment, emergencies dr. appointment, meeting a repair man, taking car to the shop, etc.

      And not your fault, but that’s terrible wording for a policy.
      I’d be inclined to ignore the word “urgent” since it’s too subjective, and default to using personal time for anything that I need to address during normal business hours. But then I’d also ask how I should go about “scheduling” the “emergencies” to occur during off hours….
      That should probably be re-written to “emergencies or important personal business that cannot be scheduled during non-working hours.”
      Getting coffee with a friend– do it after hours or take vacation.
      Meeting with a banker that need to be during working hours — personal time.

    21. Observer*

      Our office puts “personal leave” and “vacation” in one bucket. And outside some narrow exceptions, managers are actively discouraged from asking what the leave request is for.

    22. Sleeping Late Every Day*

      The best use of a personal day is when the bed just won’t let go (©Frank, one of my all-time favorite co-workers).

  7. Trinity Valley Cheer*

    I’m currently employed in a job I enjoy that I started a few months ago. In my field, there’s this well-known report that is widely mocked for its (incorrect) conclusions. My boss and I have dogged on this report many times. Earlier this week, he messaged me with a job listing; the company that produced the report is hiring someone to oversee work that would include things like this report. He was messaging me to make a joke, but of course I looked at the listing.

    The position salary range is 30-100% over what I make now and the benefits are great (lots of vacation compared to my 10 days, other perks companies in my field are starting to implement). I’m so tempted to apply, but I feel like it would a huge betrayal of my boss, who I like and respect, and my company, whose mission I believe in. The other component, though, is that my job is currently only funded through a few years. There is hope for more, but no guarantee no matter my performance. This other job is an integral part of the company’s mission, so it’s not subject to restructuring the way my current position is.

    So, apply? Don’t apply?

    1. NotMy(Fancy)RealName*

      What’s the downside to applying? You can always decide that it’s not for you later in the process.

    2. Rey*

      Apply! Where to work is a business decision, and even if it feels like a betrayal of your boss or your organization’s mission, it isn’t really. You never know what will happen with the application, but you should definitely explore your options just so you’re armed with more information.

    5. Lunchtime Doubly So*

      Please apply. What’s best for you may not be what your boss thinks is best and companies just don’t reward loyalty anymore (if they ever did). Learn about the job and if you think it would be good for you, then know that you deserve to be well-compensated. You may even be a huge asset to this new company given how well you know their product, and you could help make it into a more valuable resource. Don’t cut off your options before you explore them.

      1. Ama*

        Yeah, honestly I would bet the company is aware that the report wasn’t well-received — you can always ask questions in the interview to see if they are really looking for someone who can help them do better next time or if they just want someone to rubber stamp incorrect conclusions and back out of the process if it seems like it’s the latter.

    6. Cthulhu's Librarian*

      Apply, if you don’t feel that it would compromise your ethics to at least consider an offer from the company producing this report. It’s worth the practice and experience of spending a couple hours dusting off the resume and cover letter skills.

      Also, start looking at job postings elsewhere in your industry. While it’s possible that the position is paid at the very high end of the market for reasons, I’d suspect that if there are many postings out there for 130-200% your current salary, you’re being drastically underpaid in your current position.

      1. Loulou*

        I was wondering about the pay thing too. It’s possible OP is very underpaid, but it’s also possible this is a higher-level position and the pay is a signal (even if the title is ambiguous, which I understand they often are).

    7. HigherEdAdminista*

      Apply. As much as you might like and respect your boss, and believe in the work you are doing, there is nothing wrong with exploring another opportunity. Most businesses would not hesitate to let you go if it was helpful to their bottom line and goals, no matter how much they liked you personally.

    8. Rusty Shackelford*

      I notice the fact that this report is literally a joke doesn’t come into your decision. Is it really something you want to be involved in?

      1. Loulou*

        I mean, I think OP’s rationale is that this org suffers from poor oversight or management and by taking this role, they would provide more rigor. Without having any idea what this is about, I guess we don’t know if they really can fix anything, but my guess is that’s the idea.

        1. pancakes*

          In that scenario I would want to look at ownership of the org and industry press about it, because it often seems to be the case that problems like this come from the top down rather than a handful of inept managers.

      2. Higher Ed*

        This was my thinking, too. Apply if you want, but proceed with caution and eyes open. I’d consider it a red flag that this company is putting out a report that everyone sees so unfavorably and would wonder if there aren’t other problems at this organization. Maybe the high pay is because there’s a lot of dysfunction that goes along with the job.

    9. Coder von Frankenstein*

      Hell yes apply!

      I’d say to apply anyway, but the fact that your job is only funded through a few years puts an exclamation mark on that. Your company can’t or won’t provide you with a permanent gig; they should expect you to be looking out for your future employment, and you shouldn’t pass up a good opportunity just because the timing isn’t ideal.

      You aren’t committing to anything by applying. If you do end up taking the job, you can help your boss by giving a decently long notice period, making sure to document everything and wrap up important tasks, and generally being above-board and helpful as you move on. Plus, you can fix the report for him. :)

    11. Pool Lounger*

      Would working for a company that’s known as a joke in your field hurt you down the line? If other employees seeing that on your resume would get your resume tossed, I wouldn’t bother. But if the company is still respectable might as well apply.

    12. Michelle*

      The only reason I can see not to apply is if it would harm your reputation to work for this company. Do others in your field typically view the company, and it’s employees, in a negative light? Or is it just this one report that is seen poorly? If the latter, I don’t think you need to hold your boss’ opinion above your own best interests.

    13. anonymous73*

      If you’re interested in the job, then apply. You have to look out for you. Your boss may have sent it as a joke, but hey he started it. There’s no harm in checking into it.

    14. Seeking Second Childhood*

      I would not take a job managing the report that is apparently a joke in your industry. It’s not worth the pay to be associated with something that is considered a joke.

    15. Moth*

      I’m going to hold off on recommending to apply and suggest you think a little more about how you would feel working there. When you say that the report the company produces is widely mocked, is that somewhere you would feel good about working? Do you think being associated with the company could impact your ability to find work elsewhere in the future? Even if it seems like a more stable position, could it impact your future career plans? I’m not saying everywhere has to be a dream job, but there’s a pretty big spectrum of “not dream job” that can range from mildly annoying to actively making you unhappy. The great pay and benefits can also be common at companies that have no other way to retain employees but to pay them so well that they feel like they can’t leave. It’s easy to get used to that high pay and feel like you can’t step away. I say all of this from a place of a bit of familiarity.

      All that being said though, if you want to apply to just learn more about the company and see what they’re really like, it doesn’t hurt and doesn’t commit you to a job there. Just do it with your eyes open and I recommend trying to avoid being tempted by golden handcuffs of high pay. But if you apply and decide it really is a good fit and you’d feel comfortable being there, then I support the other comments about needing to do what’s best for yourself!

    16. All the words*

      Surprise twist: Seeing the salary offered, your current boss also applied for the position!

      I kid, of course, but please do feel free to apply.

    17. Bex*

      Option 3: Apply to other jobs. If your current job is significantly underpaying you, then you should be looking at options! But also, working for a company that releases terrible products is probably not the answer. So expand your horizons and see what else is out there!

    18. OtterB*

      Do YOU think the well known report routinely has incorrect conclusions? A salary increase is great but I would not want to work for an organization that demanded I put out bad work. Plus, if the report is a joke in your field, then being associated with it might make it harder to change jobs later.

    19. Empress Matilda*

      Always apply! You haven’t committed to anything until you accept an offer, and there are lots of decision points between here and there – any one of them might solidify your decision one way or another. It may turn out to be the best job of your life, but you won’t know if you don’t send in your resume, right?

    20. Asenath*

      I’d say apply, and add that any employer who has positions with funding that might or might not be renewed knows perfectly well that employees will be keeping an eye out for more stable positions.

    21. Haha Lala*

      If you’re up for putting in the effort of applying or tailoring your resume, apply! There’s nothing to lose, and you wouldn’t even have to interview/take their calls/anything.

      Is the experience level similar to your current position? If that explains the salary difference, then ignore my next point.

      It sounds like you have a good relationship with your boss, so point out the salary/benefits to him!
      “Ha, funny job posting. Is that real? Their salary range is significantly higher than what I’m making. And look at the benefits! Are they really that desperate to hire, or is my salary that far below market value??”
      Usually you don’t want to ‘reveal’ to management that you’re looking at other job postings, but since he showed it to you, that’s his fault.

    22. Not a cat*

      Apply. It sounds like an industry analyst position. If it is, they (Management Consulting Firms) mostly recruit from the Vendors anyway.

    23. nonprofiteer*

      I have to say, as a manager I would not make a joke with an employee that involved sending them a job posting they might apply for. There’s too much risk of it being perceived as “haha (please consider leaving).”

    24. RagingADHD*

      A hundred percent potential raise and better benefits?

      Of course, apply! How are you betraying anyone? It’s business.

      After all, if the report is wrong and you know that, why not contribute to making it right?

    25. BuildMeUp*

      I’m going to disagree with the majority of the responses here. If this company is widely mocked in your industry, what will happen if you get the job and it doesn’t work out, or you eventually decide to move on? It sounds like there is enough of a negative view of their work that having them on your resume could impact your future prospects, especially if the job would involve overseeing that specific report.

  8. Kimmy Schmidt*

    Does anyone in higher ed have experience moving to a zero-base budget? How did it go? How did you make your justifications? What went wrong/right? How worried should I be about my institution’s financial future? We haven’t been provided with a lot of guidance on how granular our justifications need to be.

    1. Animal worker*

      Not in higher ed but do ZBB. Five year trending reports are your friend! Look at what you’ve been spending to both see what you do (and don’t, at times) need. Think of what you purchase out of that particular account category and if not always intuitive include that in your justification (at our institution we have some things in categories that make little sense but are historically there and can’t be changed easily). The goal of ZBB at our facility at least is both to have people think through a bit more of why they need certain amounts, look for savings where possible, and better inform the finance folks/senior management of how the money is spent. I’m sure there are some orgs that implement this poorly but I think ours does a pretty good job. Impossible to tell from the outside what it says about your financial stability – sometimes it’s implemented due to issues to save money, sometimes in response to an audit, sometimes a new person in a finance role who prefers them.

      In case helpful below is an idea of one of my justifications from a past year (I work in a zoo, for context):

      This varied category includes items such as animal capture equipment, training supplies, kitchen supplies, storage containers, padlocks, scrub brushes, shade cloth, scales, shelving, exhibit hardware, and more. Requesting a $300 increase from FY2016 to $4500. This is still below the average annual amount from 2011-2016 of $5253.

    2. Lauren*

      My university did this and came very close to closing two years later, after several rounds of lay offs, closure of several programs, consolidation of the org structure (except for administration, of course), and a shift to an adjunct-heavy faculty. I left and wouldn’t be surprised to see news that they’ve closed. My recollection of doing the budget was it was arbitrary, no one had a clear idea of what to do, and no one knew how stuff got approved vs not approved for the budget.

  9. Lady Whistledown*

    Brand new manager here (ahhhhh!!)

    Tips and tricks and what to do/avoid? He’s a great employee – hard worker who takes feedback well and I want to do right by him. We’re in sales for a Fortune 500 so metrics for success are thankfully pretty straightforward.

    (Already bought Alison’s book and have reviewed some of the archives but always hungry from more ideas :))

    1. wildcat*

      Congratulations!
      At least it is a hardworking person, half the battle has been won. I would approach him and ask he has suggestions on how you can better manage him which will be more productive for him. His suggestions will be specific to him and that way you both agree on what works for you.
      Goodluck

      1. Lady Whistledown*

        Agreed! The other potential direct report is a nightmare so my boss took him instead and I’m eternally grateful. Our first 1:1 is next week so I’ll be sure to ask him how he’s envisioning us best working together.

    2. Anonymous Koala*

      Try to be as transparent and flexible as possible. My favorite manager would forward emails to me if they pertained to what I was working on, keep me in the loop about projects coming my way before they were announced, and tell me about upcoming opportunities and ask if I wanted to participate. Leave was never a big deal as long as I got my work done. Communicate as transparently as possible, be flexible, and make yourself as open to feedback as possible and you’ll be ahead of many other experienced managers :)

      1. Lady Whistledown*

        Definitely open to feedback! And thankfully I can be very flexible with leave – we have an unlimited policy and my own boss is quite thoughtful around vacation and burnout. As long as the work gets done (and it’s not crippling amounts of work) you can easily take off for the afternoon or a long weekend.

    3. Gnome*

      From my own fist year in management… If you have an issue you raise to YOUR management, and they say they’ll address it (e.g. like if something is above your authority level or you ask for guidance on handling a stick situation)… And they do NOT, instead of getting frustrated, bring it back up… But in the sense of ‘ I raised X with you and you said you would handle it. X is still an issue, is there a timeline on this/how can I help get this resolved?”. Exact wording to reflect the prior conversation.

      1. Lady Whistledown*

        Thankfully my manager is very supportive but our broader org is quite matrixed and can take time to navigate. Excellent reminder on, well, reminders!

    4. 30 Years in the Biz*

      I’ve been a manager/sr. manager for over 12 years in biotech. Here are some things I think are important:
      Consistent communication. Give both positive and “developmental” feedback regularly. Listen well. Make sure he knows you two are part of a team in the bigger picture of the company and will be doing great work together. Encourage his growth in the position as he takes on and succeeds with tasks. Be a model of competency and professionalism. Avoid speaking negatively of anyone in the company, even if challenging. Demonstrate how to handle multiple types of speedbumps in one’s workplace (difficult personalities, budget limitations, corporate problems, etc.) . I’ve also really liked the tenets of the “4 Agreements”:
      Agreement 1: Be Impeccable With Your Word.
      Agreement 2: Don’t Take Anything Personally.
      Agreement 3: Don’t Make Assumptions.
      Agreement 4: Always Do Your Best.

      1. Lady Whistledown*

        These are EXCEPTIONALLY helpful. Like, going to put them on a post it for my desk now. Thank you!!

        1. 30 Years in the Biz*

          You’re really welcome. Have fun managing! It’s also a chance for you to grow and learn about your business and business in general. P.S. Love your name and can’t wait for the next season of Bridgerton.

    5. T. Boone Pickens*

      David Brock has an excellent book called, “The Sales Manager Survival Guide”. It’s geared towards first time sales managers. Highly recommend it.

  10. Stuckinacrazyjob*

    How are y’all divesting from work? I’m spending so much time to not even get to the bare minimum and always feel bad about it. I really need not to care so much

    1. wildcat*

      This year I am setting boundaries, it started with removing the email app from my phone. I come to work at 9 and do the best I can do get through tasks then I leave at 5 pm. I make fun plans for when I get home so I wont think about work. I set a target of reading 20 books for fun this year and so I am working towards that goal. Find something you like doing that can distract you from work.

      1. Coenobita*

        I need to have easy access to work email on my phone (for offsite meetings etc.) so instead of removing it entirely, I just turned off the notifications, and it’s amazing how much of a difference just doing that has made. No buzzing, no little red number of unread messages. I use a different app for my personal email (e.g. Outlook for work, Gmail for personal) so I never see any work emails on my phone unless I deliberately check for them. It’s honestly made a huge difference for me.

      2. OtterB*

        First glance through I misread this as “setting bonfires.” Which I suppose is one way of divesting from work, but probably not a good idea in the big picture.

    2. English Rose*

      With you on that Stuckinacrazy! Trouble is letting go of the caring can mean not being engaged and then everything feels worse. I agree with Wildcat on boundaries. I’ve started pushing back on new tasks/projects and keeping a closer eye on how long things take me. I tend to under-estimate, therefore over-commit and end up working stupid hours to deliver what I’ve promised. I am NOT looking at a single work email at weekends now, and that helps.
      My colleague (same level as me) takes a full hour for lunch each day. No debates, he just goes out and comes back after an hour. He might eat a sandwich in his car for all I know, but it’s admirable. I’m working up to that1

      1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

        Nod. Yesterday I forgot to turn on DND on my phone and somebody texted me at 11:30 at night about work. And yes, I tend to estimate my work time to be what I can do when brain and body are working and they often malfunction

        1. Hlao-roo*

          Is there a multiplication factor you can apply to work time estimates? I’m thinking probably something in the range of 1.5x – 3x (depending on how often your brain and body malfunction). There will times when you get work done early (when everything does go well) and some times when you’ll still be late (if you unexpectedly get extremely sick) but it should lower your stress levels on average.

          If you go this route, you’ll need to get in the habit of pausing before you respond to the “when will you have this done by?/how long will this take you?” questions so you have time to say to yourself “this looks like a one-week task if everything goes perfectly, but that never happens so one week*2 = 2 weeks for this task.”

          1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

            Nod. People will ask for a task that takes a few hours, not knowing that some days I only have 6 hours or even just 4 in me.

    3. Michelle*

      I have an unfortunate tendency to look at everything I *haven’t* done, rather than everything I *have* done, and I’m working on that. Sometimes it’s helpful to take inventory of how much you can realistically be expected to do — WITHOUT running yourself into the ground — and compare that to what you are doing. You say you aren’t getting the bare minimum, but maybe ask a respected friend or colleague for a reality check. You may be expecting more than is reasonable, or your company may be expecting too much.

      1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

        When I write what I did it is often a substantial amount of work, but a lot of work is left undone and I end up with a huge backlog.

    4. Generic Name*

      I’ve deleted my work email from my phone and no longer check work emails in my off hours. I’m dealing with a lot of medical needs my child has, and I’m just taking sick time for his appointments (which we are allowed to do) instead of trying to work hours extra to make up the time. I just can’t deal with working, and then spending hours at my child’s medical appointments, and then working hours in the evenings. I’ve been making an effort to “stick to may lane” more. I used to worry more about big-picture company stuff (I work for a small company), and if I saw what I perceived as a potential issue, I’d try to fix it or flag it. I’m in an individual contributor role, and I don’t get paid to or have the job title to worry about that stuff, so when I get the urge to fix/report, I ask myself, “is this my job to worry about this?”. Often it’s not, so I just move on.

    5. justaworkerbee*

      I agree with all the other comments on setting boundaries, do not disturb on your phone, not checking emails, etc. For me, I have a horrible problem of dreading work late into the night that leads to insomnia. A year ago I started taking melatonin to help me sleep and it works wonders! I take it every Sunday without fail. Improving my sleep health has honest to goodness made my work life so much better.

      I also have to be very realistic with myself at work. There are certain individuals who sometimes nitpick my job or our organization and make it seem like no matter what I do, I’m not doing enough. I just started to let it go – “water off a duck’s back” style. I think of it like high school drama, and my minimizing those naysayers it helped my put my job into perspective. I can only control myself and my actions and *I* know I’m doing as best I can, you know?

    6. Anonymous Hippo*

      I am still very much a work in progress on this front.

      But I started being a stickler for off hours has helped a lot. The three days of close I’ll work limited extra hours (I won’t skip meals and I go to bed by midnight no matter what’s on fire) but the rest of the time I won’t answer a call/IM/text/email after 5:01 unless I personally think it’s an emergency. I also added my commute into my work hours for the days I go in the office. I’m in a senior management role, so a great deal of what I’m doing is up in my head anyway, and not like I can turn that off, I’m constantly thinking of issues and working out plans in my head, so if they get rent free time in my head, I’m at least going to create hard limits on the time they have on my physical presence. It’s actually made me a lot more efficient.

  11. Warlord*

    Hey gang,

    In a few (months? a year?) I’m looking to make a career change from government into technical writing. I’m taking some free online courses on Adobe FrameMaker and Robohelp, and I’m learning DITA. I’ve scrounged up some academic editing work, and the occasional grant editing (I used to be a grant writer), as well as writing up some systems/processes at work.

    Any other advice? I’m not sure what subset of technical writing I want to go into, but I’m thinking about fintech because I’m interested in wealth management. I’m not terribly technically advanced, but I’m very good at making unclear information clear.

    1. Jaybee*

      Since you say you’re specifically interested in wealth management – credit analysis (AKA underwriting) is a sort of ‘hidden’ technical writing position that not many people outside of banking & finance know exists, and it can lead directly into wealth management. It’s an entry level job for a lot of careers in the upper levels of banking, finance, and accounting.

      You would be writing loan memos – essentially describing a loan deal in a neat and readable package that can be presented to decision-makers at the bank. Some amount of education or experience in basic accounting is usually required because you do need to be able to read and discuss financial statements.

      There are a lot of free seminars on YouTube etc for beginning credit analysts, I watched a couple myself before getting into the field to be sure I was making the right move.

    2. Current TW*

      I’m in technical writing. RoboHelp and FrameMaker are still used by a lot of old-school places (like manufactured goods) but if you’re looking to get into fintech or enterprise software, they’re outdated. You’d be better off learning Flare and InDesign.

      I’d suggest lurking on the Write The Docs slack to get a better feel for the current technologies that are most in demand. Also, comb through LinkedIn to find TWs at the companies you’re interested in, and look at their skill stacks.

    3. starsaphire*

      Tech writer here.

      I had a long struggle looking for positions before I found this one. Many places advertising for tech writers aren’t really looking for writer/editors; they’re looking for someone who can read and fix code. (The “G” company, for example, is usually looking for tech writers – but they require coding experience for all TW jobs.)

      Knowing DITA will help, so that’s a step in the right direction. If you’ve got a coding background, you should be okay; if not, focus on more traditional industries rather than tech.

      Best of luck!

    4. Baeolophus bicolor*

      I’m in technical writing. I second learning InDesign. If you can, I’d also suggest learning Oxygen (a popular DITA editor). I’m not in anything financial, but you might want to take a look at the Society for Technical Communication and CIDM for more resources, newsletters, etc. Two good books are DITA 101 by Rockley, Manning, and Cooper and Developing Quality Technical Information by Carey, Lanyi, Longo, Radzinski, Rouiller, and Wilde. The IBM Style Guide is also a good resource.

    5. Warlord*

      Thanks, y’all.

      I’ve poked around Write the Docs, and they listed the Adobe Technical Communications Suite as a skill to learn. The online training is free, so I thought why not. I can check out Flare and InDesign.

      I’ve looked at oXygen too, and they have a very helpful DITA style guide. I’ll check them out in greater detail. I’ll look into those books!

      Yeah, tech’s where the money’s at, but my coding background is non-existent and I don’t really want to go into coding. Traditional industries it is.

      1. Fran Fine*

        Don’t rule out tech. Sure, you won’t get a tech writing role for API documentation if you don’t understand coding, but you could write proposals for a tech company (that’s what I used to do with zero programming background), you can write their employee training documentation, style guides, and even work with their instructional design team (if they have one) on documentation. I’ve done all of that in tech and only have a certificate in technical writing from the University of Washington (I was a journalist and actually completed my program nearly two and a half years after joining a software company – I was previously a proposal manager in a different industry making peanuts).

    6. No Cheap Ass Rolls Here*

      My company can always use help with writing how-to information and we have one project that involves writing about how to apply for grants. Do you have a website for your freelance writing work? (Hope this is okay to ask here.)

  12. Becky*

    Hi everyone! I’m looking for examples on AAM where Alison addresses the issue of a company sending an org-wide email / announcement to all staff / new rule for all staff rather than addressing the actual problem employee(s). Trying some searches but coming up empty. Thank you!

    1. awesome3*

      I mean, the funniest one is “Wednesday of last week” but there are others that are probably more relevant to your needs.

      2. So they all cheap ass rolled over and one fell out*

        Did you mean “I will confront you by Wednesday of this week” ?

    2. Becky*

      I’m looking because my partner is stuck on a committee formed to address the problems being caused by a subset of employees (?!)

    3. awesome3*

      Another one that probably isn’t as useful as others, but “my coworker tried to film her pregnancy announcement and now there is chaos” from yesterday had elements of that from both corporate HR and from the local HR.

    7. theletter*

      I couldn’t tell you where or when it was posted, but there was the story about a hiring manager who moved Heaven and Earth to recruit a high-performer onto the team.

      They same day the new recruit started was the same day that a VP decided to end flex hours due to a few people abusing the unspoken system. So the new recruit comes in and finds a letter on his desk outlining how he needs to be at his desk at 8 AM sharp and don’t overextend your lunch break etc, so the new recruit doesn’t even sit down. He said something along the lines of ‘well this won’t work’ and ghosts the job.

      1. Hlao-roo*

        That one is one of my favorites! It’s the 6th story on the “resigning via cod, a glorious out-of-office message, and other quitting stories” post from October 5, 2017. I’ll put the link in a reply to this comment.

  13. LongDistanceWorkLife*

    TLDR: Anyone have experience staying in your own country with kids (with no plans to move) while spouse went to work in another country for an opportunity too good to pass up for a defined period of time – say 2-3 years? How did it go? What do you wish you knew before you did it?

    Long version:
    Spouse may be offered a job in another country for his current company that is a huge opportunity and it would be structured with an end date but for more than 1 year. For all kinds of reasons including my own career and family obligations, I cannot move with him. We don’t speak the language and while business will be in English daily life would not be. I will have more support and help at home than I would if I went with my spouse and I’m in the kind of job that is really hard to get into and a little niche – I cannot just pick up and leave. I also don’t want to quit my job and I have non-negotiable family obligations that no one else can take over. We have more than one child.

    This is not something that my spouse will do without my ok and we are both not sure we’re willing to do this, but we need to seriously consider it. We will obviously need more details before deciding anything.

    I know people who have lived in different areas of the country for part of their marriages without kids – sometimes these marriages survived, often they did not. Either way I know it’s going to be hard as hell if we do this. Has anyone done this and if so how did it work? Would you still have done it knowing what you know now? What do you wish you knew before you decided to do this?

    1. AnonEMoose*

      It might be worth talking to folks who have had a spouse on military deployment for an extended period. It’s not exactly the same, but there is the factor of having a spouse away for an extended period and trying to keep the marriage alive, plus adjusting once they come back. They may have insights/advice to offer.

      1. LongDistanceWorkLife*

        This suggestion somehow makes me feel a little better. I hadn’t thought of this but you’re right a lot of military families deal with this regularly. Thank you for the suggestion.

      3. Ann Perkins*

        This is me, though it wasn’t quite as long – my husband went on a deployment when my first was only 4 months old. The deployment was only 6 months though. It was hard – I have no family nearby so it was lonely, I’m not going to lie. But we made it through and the money was nice since he gets paid more for his reserve work than his civilian job. I think if I’d had family nearby that would have eased it a lot.

        I know that sort of distance can be really hard on kids and the parental relationship, so that’s definitely something to consider. I only dealt with it when my kid was a baby so he’ll have no memory and it really didn’t affect him, as far as I can tell.

      4. Panicked*

        Mil spouse checking in! We’ve done 4+ deployments at various ages and stages of our kiddo. Does it suck? Yes it does. Does it take extra effort to maintain your typical baseline? Yes it does. Can you do it? Absolutely. Here are my suggestions.
        – Get a Power of Attorney before your spouse leaves. You’d be amazed at how many times I’ve used it.
        – Schedule vacation time as soon as you can. It gives everyone something to look forward to and allows you to better plan your own schedule.
        – Get into a routine now and stick to it after they leave. It will help the kids transition; the stability is incredibly necessary and helpful.
        – If you have school-age kids, have your partner connect with your kids online. My daughter and my husband played Minecraft together through one of his non-combat tours. It gave them a great way to stay connected, have fun, and build memories. (It also gave me a break!) They’d even go onto their game while the other was asleep and leave each other in-game presents. It was so cute!
        – Lean on others for help. Single parenting is HARD. Don’t be afraid to reach out to friends and family for assistance.
        – Make sure you take care of yourself. This is a tricky one, but one that is the most crucial. For 2-3 years, everything will fall on you and you can’t pour from an empty cup. Take time for yourself, even if it’s just for a few minutes after the kids go to bed. Trying a new hobby is always fun. It is very easy to get stuck in a rut, but try really hard to push yourself out of it.
        – Give yourself something to look forward to. Try to plan a fun outing or activity for each month. Pumpkin patch, 4th of July parade, strawberry picking, winter festival, whatever. Just something to keep your sights on. It also helps with the countdown. “I have six more months before I see my spouse again, but I only have three weeks until we go to this concert! And six weeks until that pottery class!”
        – Those first goodbyes are the most challenging you’ll have. It’s 100% okay to cry and be sad for awhile, but don’t let it consume you. I “allow” myself to cry from the drop off point until I get home. Then it’s “buck up, buttercup” and get into the new routine.
        – You will fight with your spouse leading up to their departure. It’s totally normal and a way to start separating yourself so it’s not *so* difficult when they do actually leave. You’ll also fight when they return. You’ve been doing things a certain way for the past few years and they will come and try to change it. You’re going to argue. I’m telling you, it’s 100% normal. It’ll pass.
        – Let your spouse help. If they want to help with something, let them. Even if it’s only ordering dinner for delivery or researching a roofer for the house, keep them involved. It’s easy to take everything over, but it can make it really challenging for them to not be able to contribute. They are still a member of the household, even if they’re miles away.
        – Prepare for the time difference. You may only have a few good hours where you both are awake and not busy. Get used to not having full access/communication all the time.
        – This isn’t going to be easy at all and a good therapist can help you through the really rough patches, if you need them.

        Good luck! Whatever you both decide to do, just know that you can get through it.

        1. Deployment Mom*

          I’m a military spouse, he’s a reservist who only deployed twice in the 20 years we’ve been married. Once before kids and once when our kids were 3, 5, and 7. I would not do it if I had the choice. My 3 year old was a mess- daycare drop offs were brutal, she developed anxiety of all men, and her daycare provider asked if she was just born grumpy. (She was not) Our marriage is better than ever 3 years later, but that year was not worth it overall. My older kids fared much better but still make wishes like “dad will never be deployed again” I agree with all the other advice people have given to make it better, but know that for some kids, it may be really really difficult. And parenting a kid through that is no joke.

    2. Mostlyalurker*

      How old are the kids? A few years is a veeeery long time to be a single parent, even with support. I don’t have direct experience doing this, but my boyfriend did something similar with his now-ex-wife for a few years, and it was really hard on everyone. It’s not the entire reason they divorced, but it sure didn’t help matters. I’d also consider the impact on his relationship with the kids- two years is a long time to go without seeing dad very often.
      If you want more data, maybe you could do a weird sort of trial run where you take in full kid responsibility for a few days or a week, just to get a sense of what it would feel like to do it all on your own?

    3. Colette*

      I have not done this, but here’s what I would consider:
      – what’s the time difference between the new country and your currrent country? How would you stay in touch about the big and small stuff? Could you have daily phone calls with and without the kids, for example?
      – how often would you be able to visit in person?
      – you have a support system at home, which is great. Are you able to handle not just the kid stuff, but the house/finance stuff? Are you familar with the bills and how to pay them?
      – how often would you be able to get someone to babysit the kids so you get some time to yourself?
      – thinking about your specific kids, what kind of effort/energy do you need to deal with them? A high-energy 3 year old who will climb anything they see is difference between a quiet 7 year old or a sulky 13 year old.
      – do you have enough flexibility at work to take off the time you need for the kids (e.g. if someone gets sick, what’s the plan? What if everyone gets sick over a 2-week period)?

    4. Policy Wonk*

      I have not done this, but know lost of people who have. Some companies have expat packages for people relocating outside their home country. Check to see if the company has something like this. If possible, spouse should negotiate for the company to pay for visits home. This is actually pretty common in such cases – some have had twice per year visits, some four times. (And of course travel goes both ways – arrange time for you to visit spouse.)

      The cost of a second home can also be expensive – see if housing or a rent subsidy can be included in spouse’s compensation. Ditto furnishings. Is there anything in your home spouse will want to take with, that you will need to replace/buy another one?

      Video-chat regularly. You don’t say where you are, but if in the US, health insurance continuation could be an issue. Make sure that is all spelled out.

      If you have kids, might need powers of attorney or other documents to ensure they can get passports and travel without spouse’s consent. And look at the things you rely on spouse for – do you have someone to pick up those duties? (E.g., get kids to sports practice, shovel snow.)

      This may not be sustainable over the long-term, but if it is truly for 2-3 years, it is doable.

    5. Cranky lady*

      I haven’t done it but it’s not uncommon in my field. Thoughts: 1. make sure that travel costs and “home leave” are spelled out in the benefits package so spouse can come home and you can go visit, 2. Ask for cross cultural training for the whole family, not just spouse, 3. Think of what things spouse does at home that you may need to outsource and whether the salary/benefits of the overseas assignment cover that, 4. Make sure you are on the same page (and keep talking about) what happens if spouse hates new job/country, you hate being alone, you want to join them in a year or two.

    6. Not A Manager*

      When you’re making this decision, I suggest that you pretend that you’ve accepted the job and the separation, and now you’re explaining to the kids (a) now, why you are doing this and what the benefits are, and (b) 20 years in the future why you did it and what the benefits were. I would also (c) pretend that you are now retired and you’re discussing with each other why this was the right choice.

      I know it sounds like I have some super-secret snarky agenda here, but I don’t. I’m on the far side of your situation – my kids are grown and I’m in later middle age. Looking back, I see some of our family decisions in a very different way, not just because of course now I know the actual outcome, but more because now I have a larger overview and slightly different priorities.

    7. anonymoose*

      From the practical side what kind of package does the company offers for visits home – at my company people who are married but come out without their family have 2 paid vacations each year (the allowance is very generous) and between vacation time and various company holidays and national holidays they end up with almost 2 months of vacation time. Also families come out for a visit during school holidays, not sure if you would be able to work remotely and do that. From the husbands/wives I’ve spoken to it is tough as they are essentially single parents for large chunks of time but they usually have a timeline and a reason – pay off the mortgage, college funds, retirement funds etc and they focus on that.

    8. Mockingjay*

      I’ve done this for 6 months at a stretch, multiple times. Hodgepodge of hints:

      1. Power of Attorney. You’ll need this for a lot of unanticipated items. I did.
      2. Finances: who pays what and how. Set a budget and bank the rest. Make sure bank accounts are joint. Have him add you as an authorized person to handle his credit cards in case of billing errors. Insurance (home, auto, med, dental), car payments, utilities, mortgage – ensure you can access every account that costs money With online banking and account and global internet, these things are easier than I had it, but if you have to call, they won’t talk to you unless you’re authorized on the account.
      3. MWR/Home leave. See if he can negotiate periodic flights for home visits, as part of or in addition to vacation time. And plan for a vacation over there (assuming pandemic ends and it’s not a world hotspot).
      4. Schedule standard Facetime or Skype with the kids. Mine loved it – even with the grainy, slow video of the day.
      5. Schedule standard Facetime or Skype for you. You both need time to connect as spouses.
      6. Line up your friends for support. I had an amazing group that helped out in all kinds of ways. I got the flu and they promptly took my kids for playdates so I could rest, babysat so I could attend appointments, etc.
      7. If you own your home, are there any big ticket items due: furnace replacement, roofs? Figure out what has to be done now, what can wait, and what will be done while he’s gone.
      8. What chores does he handle that you’ll have to pick up or outsource? Hire someone to cut the lawn.
      9. Keep a positive attitude and remember it’s hard on both sides. You’ve got work, family, and household on this side, he’s got work and some really lonely evenings on his. (You can only do so much tourist stuff before you get tired of it.) Talk to each other about daily lives: ask each other advice, but leaven that with humor and funny stories about kids, neighbors.

      1. PT*

        Look at exchange rate plus currency change plus international bank transfer fees, too, if he is going to be paid in the country he’s living in and transferring money home to cover home expenses.

        This is totally different but my husband and I looked into moving to Canada from the US for a job and the process for paying US student loans while being paid in Canadian money involved an exchange rate, a currency change fee, and an international bank transfer to a US account just to draft the loans. It would have been a huge pain with a chunk of extra expenses tacked on.

    9. Loulou*

      Look closely at pandemic border laws in this country. Is there a chance that you would be unable to visit, or that if your husband visited you he’d be unable to return?

      Good luck with this decision.

    10. Camelid coordinator*

      We’ve lived apart for career reasons before kids and are finishing up a two-year stint of having two households for work/career/school reasons. All the reasons we decided to do it make sense and are still valid, but I have a lot of regrets. My kiddo is in high school and seems to do better when both parents are around, which in our case is most weekends and when I can work remotely.

      I remember middle school as being intense in terms of scheduling, increased academic demands, and activities, and my advice would that if you want to do this, elementary school age (or earlier?) might work ok.

    11. OtterB*

      Not exactly the same, but while our kids were preschoolers more than 20 years ago, my husband had a project for work that took him out of the country during the work week for … I’ve forgotten how many months, maybe 9 or 10? Seemed like forever. He normally flew home Friday night and went back Sunday night, which meant we saw more of him than you might if he’s relocated, but this was pre-Skype and Facetime.

      One thing we did that I think helped was that the kids and I went to visit for a week a couple of times during the project. That let us have a mental image of what his location was like.

      One thing I would do differently if we had it to do over: when he was at home, he really wanted to do family things, so we did. But that meant we didn’t do date-night things or just-for-us things, and I think that was a mistake. It took a long time to get our connection back.

      Mine was long enough ago that there wasn’t much cell phone use and little electronic communication, so it might be easier now to keep in touch, but I’d suggest setting ground rules for decisions you make unilaterally while you’re the parent in charge, and decisions that you should consult your spouse about.

      He was very lonely for a lot of the time. I had all our built-in neighbor and church support; he had a few colleagues from work, but he spoke the language haltingly, there wasn’t any public transit where he was and he couldn’t drive (though there were taxis). So it’s hard for the parent with the kids to manage single-handed, but it’s also hard for the one alone.

      And (looking at other responses since I started typing this) yes to what Policy Wonk said about power of attorney. I had forgotten – the first time we went to visit, we got to the airport and discovered that I couldn’t take the kids out of the country alone without notarized permission from him. Cue lots of scrambling, phoning, and faxing, and we caught a flight the next day, but better to have avoided that one.

      1. LongDistanceWorkLife*

        This isn’t just a reply to OtterB but to all of you who responded. I just wanted to say thank you for taking the time to provide such thoughtful responses! You’ve given us a lot to think about and talk about. I appreciate all the advice and questions so so much. It makes it feel a little less overwhelming. Thank you so much.

    12. Spearmint*

      I would really think long and hard about the potential negative consequences for your kids. Being separated from a parent for years is huge for young children, and time they won’t get back. Additionally, even if your relationship is on solid footing it will probably strain it at times and up the chances of divorce, both of which would be and for your kids as well.

      My partner’s father did this for a year when she was eight, though in his case it was just a few states over rather than out of the country. She found it really hard to be separated from him, and it also led to her parents divorcing which was also really hard on her (it wasn’t the only reason for the divorce, but it was a major factor).

      I’m not saying these are arrangements can’t work, but they are very risky when kids are involved and I’d think long and hard about it.

      1. LongDistanceWorkLife*

        Its my kids and my marriage I’m most worried about. If the kids were older that might be a very different thing…We need to have some really specific conversations about goals that I don’t think we’ve done in a few years – or at least not about this kind of thing. I also probably need to get my own head clear on what I want and what’s important to me. I’m trying to look at this as an opportunity to really talk some of these big things through.

    13. Cheesesteak in Paradise*

      Seconding people’s points about spouse’s home responsibilities and outsourcing, beyond the kiddos.

      For example, I’m reasonably handy but I’m not physically capable of snow-blowing our long driveway as a thin-ish nearly middle aged lady (I tried it once and it was a disaster). If my spouse were relocating in the summer, I might not even think about this! So 1) are you going to be able to do these activities or hire them out? 2) is doing so going to make the finances or emotional part (resentment) of this unsustainable? Or other things – what if you get locked out? Pipe bursts? Car won’t start?

      I’m not saying you’re incapable of dealing with these things and obviously single parents figure it out, but I’d be getting angrier and angrier if I had to do all the home maintenance stuff (plus kids, doctor’s visits, child care, school, food prep, grocery, cleaning, etc) on my own. No point in relocating if it kills the marriage.

    14. Beth*

      Are you good at communication? If not, make that a key area in which to improve very, very fast. With good, warm, caring, regular communication, you can weather almost anything.

      My context: my wife and I started our relationship 4,000 miles apart, and kept it going for almost ten years before we were able to be together for more than a few days at a time. We communicated constantly — email, messenger, phone, text, online communities with comment cultures, mailed stuff — I don’t think there was a single day without some form of contact, even (or especially) when it was only a brief note or a pretty picture or a lame joke.

    15. A thought*

      A close family member did this for 3 years, with some breaks in between. They needed the extra pay, and the person who went overseas definitely benefited from it in many ways. But their spouse and kids….not so much, other than the extra money. The kids were teens and for a variety of reasons really needed that parent around. The spouse had so much responsibility placed on them, including the kids, that in spite of a support network it was really hard. They skyped every day and that helped everyone, but it’s no substitute for being there, especially for the kids in this instance. Also the spouse who went was in a dangerous country, so that was hard on everyone — that may not be true in your situation so at least you won’t have that stress. Lastly, when they finally came home, their spouse got a new job very far from where the traveling spouse was working, requiring the family to move and making the returned spouse’s commute very very long and impossible sometimes. The home-spouse thought it was only fair to take care of themselves professionally after the other one had done so themselves for three years (and I agreed), but the returning spouse didn’t see it that way. They have all recovered (I think) since then but it was hard on the family.

    16. Self Employed Employee*

      People are suggesting scheduling facetime and video meets. I would take this a bit further and get in the habit (if you can) of leaving the connection open for hours at a time. That can really give the feeling of the other person being with you in regular, daily life. A much different feeling that scheduling a short duration of time.

    17. Tali*

      Many in my circle have done long-distance, and it is difficult but can be done–harder across time zones and borders. Honestly I would not recommend it right now during the pandemic. I have seen/experienced too many sudden travel shut downs to be confident that your spouse would be able to get there and return safely, I have heard stories of spouses still not reunited 2+years in.

      I would also encourage you to look into COVID restrictions/practices in the target country. Many countries are stricter than the US and it could be very isolating for your spouse in a new country with no language skills or social network and no opportunity to safely build relationships. Maybe vaccines are harder to come by and safety is an issue.

      Many companies are suspending overseas travel with omicron surging, so I would check how his company will support him in this regard, in addition to all the others (local language learning, accommodations, etc.)

  14. wildcat*

    Struggling to find a job in the wildlife conservation NGO space (think WCS, WWF etc). I have revamped my application documents using advice on here but I am not getting interviews for jobs that I qualify for. Any advice? I hear a lot about networking being more important in the non profit sector but how do you find and network with people in positions to make hiring decisions?

    1. Green tea*

      I work for one of these orgs, and hiring is incredibly competitive. Without knowing your background and what kinds of jobs you are aiming for, it’s difficult to say whether you should be looking for networking opportunity or would be better off focusing on ways to strengthen your candidacy.

      1. wildcat*

        I am interested in research (have applied for research positions and program officer ones to get my foot in the door- is that a good idea?). I have an ecology graduate degree.

        1. Ama*

          I would caution against applying for program officer if you really want to do research — I’m in a medical research nonprofit and it’s pretty easy to spot people who are trying the “foot in the door” approach. Nonprofits hiring for administrative jobs want to see people who actually want to do the administrative job.

          2. Sleeping Late Every Day*

            That depends on the type of non-profit. The one I worked at was a cultural institution, and many of the professional positions were filled by people who first had a foot-in-the-door admin job.

        2. Green tea*

          A grad degree might be a better fit for a program associate position at my NGO, over a program officer position if you don’t have additional relevant experience or academic publications. My advice would be for you to find someone with the job you are looking for on LinkedIn, and ask for an informational interview to get specific advice on how to become a more competitive candidate – but do not make the ask in connection with a job you’ve applied to, or ask them to recommend you for that job. I get a lot of requests like those and find it off-putting since of course I am not going to recommend someone I haven’t worked with before.

          I also disagree with Ama’s advice as there is a huge difference at my NGO between program officer roles and admin roles. Many PO positions do include opportunities for research, both grey literature and academic, and you are definitely not overqualified for them. Don’t apply for any admin roles though, as that is a different track altogether and if you are hired as an admin, you will likely not have the opportunity to move onto another track.

          2. Coenobita*

            Yes, this is consistent with my experience. My employer hires subject matter experts under job titles like “analyst” or “advocate” (+/- a word like “policy” or “program” in front) – super vague, obviously, but just some more terms for you to keep an eye out for. We don’t have program officers per se, but I work with program officers both at peer organizations and the organizations that fund us, and they’re doing program rather than admin work.

            You might also want to check out consulting firms – they’re often the ones that big NGOs are paying to do the actual research work!

    2. Cranky lady*

      What do you want to do in that space? Are you a project manager, accountant, policy wonk, manager, IT support person? The best advice I ever got was to focus on the skill and then apply that within your NGO area of interest.

      1. wildcat*

        I am a scientist, have an ecology graduate degree. I have revamped my academic resume to highlight the skills instead of qualifications to make it clear how I am a good fit for positions but haven’t had any luck yet

        1. Bex*

          Do you have work experience? If not, I’d recommend looking into post-grad fellowships. A lot of the big NGOs (WWF, TNC, etc) offer them and they are an excellent way to get a foot in the door.

            1. Bex*

              So, I spent 10 years at one big green NGO and have been at another one for almost 5. In my experience, that sets you up for a research/scientist position but not necessarily a program officer role. I still think targeting fellowships is worth a shot, as those are definitely door opening positions. Generally what I’ve found in my career is that almost every open job is highly competitive and as a result there are very few entry level opportunities. At my prior company, we regularly hired admin/program assistants (allegedly a fairly entry level position) who had masters degrees and 2-3 years of post-grad experience.

    3. Never Nicky*

      People I know in this field have only been able to find paid work after extensive volunteering. Whether it’s the experience this gives, or the networks and contacts this leads to is difficult to unpick.

    4. YourQueerEmployee*

      I work in that field, and agree that it is extremely competitive! It’s particularly hard to find full-time year-round positions. You don’t mention how long you have been out of school or how much experience you have in the field. If you are able to swing it, it can work well to take on seasonal or contract/project-based work to help you develop specific skills, directly-applicable experience, and contacts. At my job, we frequently hire contractors on an hourly basis to help with specific projects we don’t have the capacity for (yes, this is a problem! but I don’t have the power to change it).

      I landed in my current role through a string of positions like this, each one introducing me to the next person and making my resume more and more refined to the exact field and role I was looking for.

    5. Sloanicote*

      This is my field! It has a strong sense of dues paying unfortunately and you may have to grow from within. Some orgs like TNC, DU, TU or NFWF or similar do have science roles while many conservation nonprofits do not, having program staff instead and just bringing in consultants or academics as needed. Interning/volunteering can help, and maybe focus on building experience at smaller local nonprofits over trying to enter with large regional ones everyone has heard of – due to prestige they are difficult.

      1. wildcat*

        Oh wow, this community is very diverse! Those organizations are on my list, I am also trying to network with people inside to hear about their work and experiences with the organizations. Yeah it has been tough to get in, been looking since Dec 2020 :(

        1. Sloanicote*

          So, everyone’s experience will vary, but for me, I’ve been alternating between “stretch position at a small local nonprofit with crappy pay/benefits but will gain lots of experience” and “same role at an established national org with better pay/benefits until I get bored/frustrated by silos and hierarchies” as I work may way up the ladder. From coordinator/assistant to manager to senior manager to director.

  15. AnonEMoose*

    I recently started a job search, basically because my current company finally pissed me off enough that I decided job hunting was preferable (and I HATE job hunting with a passion). I’m wondering whether LinkedIn Premium is worth it.

    Most of my experience is in administrative support for adult education (intentionally vague) though I have done a smattering of what could be called higher level stuff over the years, and it’s not what most people think of as traditional admin support. So, is it worth the money after the “free” month they offer to sign up for LinkedIn premium? Anyone got experience with this?

    1. friends with the mustard under my bed*

      I used premium for the free trial month and then canceled. I didn’t find that I got any more interaction than I did with the free version. I have noticed that when I interact with content on my LinkedIn feed such as articles and media releases from companies, I get more recruiters reaching out to me.

    3. liquidus*

      I used the free month to message talent acquisition/recruiter folk who can’t be reached otherwise when asking about open positions, but anything else that LI sells with Premium (e.g., who looks at your profile, job data, etc.) isn’t really worth it.

    4. irene adler*

      I subscribed for about 9 months. So not worth it!

      They offer things like a group for posting job hunt questions. Much like here at AAM. Only difference (and this is huge): there’s no one on the LI group to offer expert advice. It’s merely people offering their knowledge based on… whatever. So you may get “gumption” and outdated advice with no one to step in and say “no that’s not a good idea. Here’s why. Do this instead.”.

      They say Premium puts your application at the top of the list (for the Easyapply jobs) for the recruiter. So what? The recruiter decides who they want to contact-regardless of the order the applications are presented.

      If your communications plan is to reach out to many folks on LI, then you might consider it. I’m finding that basic LI membership greatly restricts those I can contact. If you are going to reach out to people via LI, first see how many you can contact on the basic membership. If you run into too many roadblocks, then maybe try the one month free.

      1. Hunnybee*

        Same — and literally AAM is so much more worth it from the standpoint of advice and community. I got nothing out of LI Premium except a bill.

    5. AnonEMoose*

      Thanks, everyone! That’s what my instincts were saying, but it’s really good to have the gut check! If anyone has other recent job search experience to share, especially after 10+ years with the same company, I’d love to hear it.

  16. lala*

    If you tell your boss you’re quitting, do you have to wait for their go-ahead to tell other people and make arrangements? How long would you wait before proceeding?

    1. Warlord*

      If the boss is decent, wait. If they are garbage humans, tell whoever you want. Sing it from the rooftops. What are they going to do, fire you?

      1. lala*

        Thanks, that is helpful. In this case, boss is decent, just doesn’t actually know specifics of my job or what I do, so I will need to talk to the people who do in order to transition everything over. How long would you wait?

        1. londonedit*

          Can you just ask them? ‘Hi Boss, I don’t want to jump the gun – is it OK for me to start talking to people about handing things over when I leave?’

        2. So they all cheap ass rolled over and one fell out*

          Did your boss give any timeline?

          Alison answered a similar question a few months ago.
          https://www.askamanager.org/2021/10/my-boss-told-me-not-to-tell-anyone-im-quitting.html

          From that answer:
          “It’s one thing for a manager to say, “Can you give us a few days to figure out the plan before you announce it to others?” That can be reasonable, particularly in a situation where hearing someone is leaving is likely to generate lots of anxious questions about how their work will be covered, or what it means for the X project, or so forth.

          But a few days only. After that you need to be free to talk about your plans with others and to start working on transition items (which is much harder if no one knows you’re leaving).”

        3. Jaybee*

          Ask your boss. “I need to discuss my departure with (x, y, and z) so we can hand off duties/wrap up loose ends/etc. Is there anything you need to do on your end before I talk about this with them?”

          If you do need to wait it shouldn’t be long. Only enough time to loop in HR or something like that.

      2. Bagpuss*

        Can you have a conversation with your boss about it?
        I was recently on the other side of this, one of my direct reports handed in their notice,I had a conversation with them about when/how we tell outside people (clients etc) and asked them before I mentioned it to other people in the department, so that they had the chance to tell their co-workers first.

        I’d say that for coworkers, it is fine for you to tell people straight away, for people outside the company such as suppliers and clients, it’s reasonable to check with your boss first about how you tell people and what information you give them, and it’s often reasonable to wait a bit so the message can be ‘I’m leaving ABC & Co on 21st January, Jane Doe will be your point of contact after that , here’s her email / direct line / whatever’

    2. anonymous73*

      Unless he specifically tells you to keep it to yourself, then you are free to let others know if you want. I would start documenting your duties as best you can, ask your boss if there’s anyone specifically you need to train/talk to/give the documentation to, and then wait for further instruction.

    4. lala*

      Thank you everyone. I think it’s tricky because it’s hard to have time to talk to my boss, doubly for it to not be out in the open, it was a feat being able to find them when they weren’t busy in order to resign.

  17. Anon-because-current-job-doesn't-know-yet*

    I need some help specifically from US citizens who have moved to New Zealand for work. If there are any in the commentariat, can you point me to resources that will help me make the transition smoothly and without surprises? I am super-excited, but also a bit terrified as I’ve never had to move internationally before.

    1. awesome3*

      Random, but youtuber mamadoctorjones just did that. Some of her moving to New Zealand for work videos might provide useful information

      1. Anon-because-current-job-doesn't-know-yet*

        That probably will be a help, thank you! Oh, she moved with kids. Perfect. I’m taking a spouse and three children.

    2. Purple Penguin*

      How exciting! I moved overseas 14 years ago (to France) and have since worked in a bunch of countries, including in Aus and NZ.

      Things that helped me were:
      +finding blogs written by other expats in my destination country. This can ease the uncertainity and give you a bit of insider knowledge. I did a quick search and this site might be a good starting place: https://internationalmoneytransfers.org/best-new-zealand-expat-blogs/

      +Assuming you’re USian, find an accountant now, before you relocate, who specializes in USian expat taxes. This is super important because US tax obligations can be super complicated. Argh, just thinking about FATCA gives me chills.

      +Know what your company is offering re relocation and know who to contact should things go pear shaped. I would also plan for there to be hiccups. For example, during my last international move, I didn’t get paid for a few months because my org didn’t file the correct paperwork AND, once they completed the needed paperwork, I couldn’t open a bank account right away as an international person. This is an extreme cautionary example, but because I’d moved a few times before and hiccups always happen, I had a few thousand earmarked for immediate living expenses.

      +A continuation from the above point, get a credit card now that doesn’t charge international transaction fees.

      +There are a bunch of orgs and groups for discussing international work moves. Check out Reddit, Facebook, and Internations.

      1. Anon-because-current-job-doesn't-know-yet*

        Thanks! That’s all really useful. I’m *hoping* that my new employer, being the government of New Zealand, will not mess up too badly, but who knows. The tax thing definitely had me a bit worried already, though; it was rather difficult to sort out.

          1. JustaTech*

            Seconding this: my friend who moved to Norway has had endless headaches with the IRS because they insist on mailing stuff and so it shows up weeks after the due date. (She got a state side accountant to deal with it.)

      1. Anon-because-current-job-doesn't-know-yet*

        All the things, really, though a lot of them will probably be specific to my status as coming from the US. For anyone, though: how much does the remoteness of New Zealand affect your ability to get new household goods? We figured we would be buying new furniture once we got there (we don’t have anything irreplaceable or really expensive) and new small appliances (food processor, toaster, etc.), but we know we’re going to have to find new shopping venues.

        1. Random Antipodean*

          Australia and NZ both use 240 volts rather than 115 (I think that’s the US standard, right?), so don’t bother bringing any appliances over unless you want to bring a transformer as well, they _will_ make popping noises and let the smoke out. If you’re bringing IT equipment, I’d look into solutions now; I’ve only gone from our higher voltage to lower, so I don’t know what the fix is, sorry.
          But yes, there are definitely appliance stores over here.

          1. allathian*

            With a laptop, you’ll need a new cable with the appropriate power supply. (I’ve only moved internationally within the EU.)

            1. Kiwiapple*

              you might not – my partner has a UK laptop, with a UK plug and we just use an adapter. simple as.

        2. Kiwiapple*

          When I rented my apartment (one of the major North Island cities) I needed to buy a fridge/freezer
          It took over a week to get here from Christchurch on the South Island.
          Warehouse and Kmart are your cheaper “they sell everything stores”. Noel Leeming for applicances. Harvey Norman for appliamces and furniture (more pricey).

          I don’t know what the cost of stuff is over in the US but going back to the fridge – it was a lot more expensive than an equivalent in the UK. Hope that helps! If you aren’t already, there are some reddits and FB groups e.g r/New Zealand (Reddit) and moving to New Zealand (FB)

          1. Anon-because-current-job-doesn't-know-yet*

            Thanks for confirming what I’d read about appliances (whiteware is the right term?)–the idea of having to move with your refrigerator is definitely a new one for people from the US. We have to bring our own clothes washer and dryer sometimes, but not fridge (or cookstove).

  18. Headset Help*

    Hi! I’m hoping some folks can weigh in on possible headsets for my situation. I’m a sign language interpreter working in a call center. I’m on video and audio calls for 8 hours a day.

    What I need:
    – Binaural with passive noise cancelling (must block out coworkers taking calls around me).
    – Rotating mic arm so I can wear the mic on the left and not whack it with my signing hand all day.
    – Corded with a quick-release adapter since wireless won’t work with our proprietary software.
    – Preferably black and as unbulky as possible as it’s visually distracting for callers otherwise
    – Less than $200. I requested a different headset from my company as a disability accommodation (ADHD and call centers don’t mix well, haha) but what they provided is exactly the opposite of what I need so I’m taking matters into my own hands. Cheaper is better.

    Does anyone have a headset they love that would fit the bill?

    1. Blarg*

      I adore my Sony wireless but they don’t meet a few of your criteria. BUT. They have a plug in to become wired. So I wouldn’t limit your search to those that are already wired as you may be able to make them so. The Sony ones I use have a mic that’s built into the ear cups which I know isn’t perfect. But the noise cancelling is epic. Like I thought my cheap-ish old ones were great. And then I upgraded on a bleed-through-noise whim and wow. I can’t even hear my cat meowing at me. Plus they are so comfy. Anyway. Sony WH-1000XM4 are my best friends. Those and the Loop ear plugs I first read about here.

      1. Headset Help*

        Thank you, I will check those out! I hadn’t considered a mic in the ear kind, that would help broaden the search as does knowing that some wireless sets can be wired. I really appreciate you weighing in!

    2. Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain*

      I use a Logitech H390 headset: wired, mic on left that can rotate up and out of the way, over-ear and seems to reduce background noise but I’m not in a noisy place to begin with, black and $40 on Amazon… but not subtle…it’s pretty bulky and noticeable on camera but I don’t see why that would be distracting. Something you didn’t mention is comfort…the headphones are padded/soft and comfortable and can adjust up/down for fit, but they sit tight on my head and therefore sometimes hurt/squish my ears if I wear them for hours without a break.

      1. Headset Help*

        I work with deaf and hard of hearing people so it’s important to minimize visual distractions. We’re not permitted to have painted nails, jewelry, visible tattoos (although that’s slowly changing), or wear clothing with patterns. Those things really can be distracting and make it harder for the deaf person to understand the interpreter.

        Deaf culture can also be very blunt, and while using the other headset multiple callers thought I was working from home and playing video games in another window, causing a lack of trust which made it a lot harder to do my job. Professional appearance is very, very important in this field, essentially. But I’m glad you’ve got a good setup that works for you!

  19. The Crowening*

    I feel like this is an odd problem to have, but would love everyone’s two cents. I spent a long time in a job I loved and was good at, but over the years the role changed to one that was a lot more passive than it had been in the beginning. My final five or so years there, I basically just took what was handed to me and did my job; my input was rarely solicited and even more rarely listened to, and almost never implemented.

    Several months ago I was hired into a new position and there is so much more freedom. All ideas are welcome. There is a lot of brainstorming. This would be great – but I sit there passively, like a lump, trying desperately to get my brain to cough up an idea. :( I feel really stupid and I know it’s not a good look. In my year-end performance review it was the only thing my manager mentioned – try to contribute more.

    What what what can I do to engage my brain and have ideas? I feel very much like, “Y’all can decide what you want and I will be happy to help you implement/execute whatever you come up with.” Which is EXACTLY how I kept my sanity at the old job. How on Earth do I leave that mentality behind? I’m really struggling to contribute in this way.

    1. Dasein9*

      Can you start with just quick comments like “That’s a good idea!” at least to begin? That might turn the ignition on the more social type of problem solving you’ve learned to put the brakes on at Old Job. Questions are also valuable, so the occasional “Ooh, good idea. How will we make x happen?”

      1. Michelle*

        This is something I am doing! I had a medical condition that caused brain fog, and I kinda checked out of certain types of conversations/socializing because I had trouble thinking. Now I’m trying to get back into the habit, but it’s overwhelming. I find that just looking for places to make whatever contribution I can really helps. Even if it’s just small responses, it gets me more engaged and that leads to ideas that allow for even more engagement. It really is something you can “fake it til you make it.”

    2. CV*

      I’ve used the idea of morning pages to jumpstart my creative mind. The idea was from Julia Cameron’s the Artists Way. Generally, it’s flow of consciousness writing for 3 pages on a daily basis. I found that for me, it didn’t need to be in the morning, just sometime during the day. After 3-4 weeks I found that as I got into the second page, the really good stuff started to come out – new solutions or approaches for problems that had been bugging me, and more clarity on my own thoughts and feelings (which was helpful because once I knew the crux of some unproductive habits, I was able to change them!)

      1. MissBliss*

        I was going to suggest something like this, as well. Part of the reason you’re struggling is because you haven’t practiced this type of thinking recently in your work environment! That doesn’t mean you’re a lump or no longer capable of it. It just means you need to cultivate those skills again.

        I would highly recommend carving time out each day to do your own solo brainstorming, and CV’s suggestion sounds like a great way to do it. You don’t have to share these things with your boss/team (unless you land on something you like!) but it will help you get back into the groove. Best of luck!

      2. Empress Matilda*

        I’m one of the few people who doesn’t like Morning Pages – they just didn’t work for me. Fortunately there are lots of other ways to develop creativity! I took a great course through EdX a few years ago – we learned about the 6 Thinking Hats, and a handful of other strategies to get your brain working again.

        https://www.edx.org/course/creative-thinking-techniques-and-tools-for-success?index=product&queryID=3425a4d8639438c62319e9de28e2e159&position=1

        Good luck!

      3. OtterB*

        There’s an “Artist’s Way at Work” book also, applying the original ideas about creativity to your work life (morning pages are key, but not the only technique).

    3. Tara*

      Although I can see that you want to respond to your manager’s feedback, remember, it’s much better to be quiet rather than just throwing bad ideas in for the sake of being heard. I’m sure it will come as you gain more confidence in the role.

      1. Spencer Hastings*

        Yeah. And when you’ve only been somewhere for three months, the suggestion you think of could easily be “the thing we just stopped doing last year, for good reason” at the new place.

    4. Anonymous Koala*

      Do you have access to the topics ahead of time? Try and do some preparatory brainstorming, either alone or with a friend. It doesn’t matter if the person you’re talking to has no idea about your subject matter – just getting used to brainstorming out loud might help.

      Also, give yourself time. Your brain spent many years in ‘survival mode’ and now you’re asking it to think really differently. It’ll take time to reengage the creative parts of your mind.

      1. calonkat*

        This! You spent 5 years “shutting down” just to survive. You’ve had “several months” in relative freedom. Undoing 5 years of an experience is not immediate. Consider making sure your manager is aware that you are working on this and the reason it’s hard. Then the other suggestions are great. I especially like the idea of small interactions to help you get used to contributing.

      2. Tipcat*

        Can you get an agenda or any info ahead of the meeting? If not, can you ask your manager to change that? Lots of people think better outside of meetings.

    5. Not A Manager*

      It sounds like you’ve trained your brain to filter out prompts to engage in creativity and problem-solving (understandably!). In addition to prepping for the actual meetings, I would take opportunities to re-learn mental flexibility and brainstorming. If you can, take an improv class. Play games alone or with other people where you get a prompt and you have a limited amount of time to come up with concepts based on it. When you read or watch TV, stop when there’s a problem or a conflict and try to solve it yourself.

    6. AnonEMoose*

      Could you start with asking questions about things others have said? For me, the process tends to go something like “Hmm…but if we do X, that impacts Y, and how would we account for that?” Or “If we do Z, then we could do A, and…” and go from there.

      Depending on your relationship with your boss, could you just be honest with them? “In my last role, contributing ideas was discouraged/ignored/punished, so I’m having to retrain my brain. I’m working on it and I plan to do X and Y. Do you have any other suggestions I could try?”

    7. Hermione Danger*

      I am an idea person and they come to me very easily, generally more than are remotely useful. One thing that has helped me contribute in situations where I was unsure and more quiet was becoming an expert in some area of the work that intrigued me.

      Learning as much as you can about the subject will help you identify places where change needs to happen and spot connections that other people may not have seen. You’ll have a better idea of what’s possible and what boundaries you could push. As a rule, the more you know about a given topic, the more you’ll be able to contribute.

    8. Square Root of Minus One*

      What your brain has learned makes it unlikely for you to get ideas on the spot for now.
      But I suppose you’re not sitting at a brainstorming sessions all the time, are you? You probably have a daily routine of work. I suggest using it.
      What makes you stop on your tracks? What makes you groan in frustration? When are you slowed down and why?
      You don’t need to answer right now, but just work, and start noticing those things, and jotting them down, on a notebook or a Word file. Problem, context, possible solution if you have one handy, just notes. Once a week, come back on those notes, expand on them.
      I bet you’ll get on to something soon enough.

    9. L. Ron Jeremy*

      I was a medical device engineer (retired) and I worked at several startups where there was usually a crisis of the day that needed solutions asap. I was never good at brainstorming in group settings and never got better at it.

      I would try to add on to others suggestions or spring out a crazy ass idea, but they usually weren’t executable ideas to the problem at hand.

      Where I shined was coming up with off-brainstorming ideas; they would come to me in my dreams or just randomly pop into my head. I was also extremely good at creating prototypes of these ideas, called reduction to practice, and testing them to see if they addressed the problem at hand. I had about a 40% success rate and my ideas were then vetted and improved by the team at the next meeting.

      My last boss really thought I was the most creative problem solver he’d ever worked with and he knew that my precipitation in the brainstorming meetings would yield results, just not that day.

      I suggest you let the problem dwell in your mind a bit, let it simmer and not try to force ideas to come out.

    10. Santa's Helper*

      I was in a similar situation a few years ago! Not sure how big your team/brainstorm group is, but it might be helpful to sit by someone you feel more comfortable with, and sharing small ideas more quietly to them? That helped me a lot when I was first in my current job, I could share a small idea with one person who could bring it up to larger group if it made sense or was a good idea. It also helped me to have internal brainstorms with myself before official brainstorms just to flesh out ideas ahead of time. I know sometimes these collab sessions can be a bit more spontaneous, but if you know something is coming up, it can help to think through your own ideas first!

    11. I'd Prefer Not To*

      Something that helps me is taking long walks with podcasts about related topics, especially those with long-form, free-flowing conversations. Are there podcasts by thought leaders in your area? They can help you stay on top of trends and see what others in the industry are doing. Similar idea is to start your day by reading an article in your area of expertise. Find some blogs that you love reading. Great for greasing the gears, so to speak.

    12. Not So NewReader*

      Not engaging can become a habit. In extreme examples we see this with abused children and abused animals. They learn for the sake of survival to just ignore everything.

      Five years is along time to go without engaging. It’s going to take a bit to reverse that habit. Forgive yourself when you think you have come up short and just simply vow to try again at the next opportunity. This is unfortunately one of the ways toxic work places can harm us.

      There are so many things you can do here.
      1) Watch what other people are saying and offering. Think about how they may have come up with their ideas.

      2) Never underestimate the power of a good question. Here the tricky part is we assume we have to have an answer. This is not true. Some times a very good question can send the group off in a different direction that leads to a group answer.

      3) Prep for meetings. Try to keep track of what the topics are and where the topics are tangent to your own work. In uncharted territory, if you keep to talking about what you do know such as your own tasks, you can feel like you are on more solid ground as opposed to talking about what Nancy is doing in Dept. XYZ.

      4) Prep for your workday. I used the commute time to think about my tasks. For one place I mostly tried to streamline my tasks because of this environment I was working in, but this still lead to questions, ideas and suggestions for resources. In your case, you could review a successful suggestion a cohort made and try to estimate how they came up with that idea. At first this will be hard if not impossible. But if you do these reviews often enough you will start to get into the swing of things.

      5) Read AAM as often as possible. The good thing about this step is that it’s actually fun. But behind the scenes you are doing the virtual equivalent of hanging out with people who are sincerely interested in bettering themselves professionally. We go with what we see, it’s tough to soar like an eagle if we hang out with turkeys. You hung out with turkeys for five years. Hang out with some eagles and watch what they are saying and doing.

      6) Practice self-forgiveness and self-kindness. NO one ever came up with a good idea by beating themselves up. “Oh I can’t do this.” “Oh I am not creative.” “Oh I am failing at my new job.” These types of thoughts/self-talk will not get you to where you want to be. A good thing here is to remember if you cannot say it to a good friend then you cannot say it to yourself either. Cheer yourself on: “I will get this.” “I will put time into improving on this and that effort will pay off!” One of my personal favs is “It’s [whatever IT is] okay. I will just keep trying and I will get it.”

    13. WoodswomanWrites*

      Lots of good ideas here, including starting small with concurring with other things people bring up so you feel more comfortable speaking up. I wonder if it would help to draw on why you were interested in this job and applied. What about the role got you excited? Were there things they brought up in the interview about the role that motivated you?

  20. HNY*

    When you took on your first management role, how many direct reports did you have and how much support were you offered as a first-time manager? Know there will be huge variations depending on sector etc. but just interested.

    1. DG*

      4-5, BUT my entire job was managing them and their work (training and coaching, reviewing their work, leading calls and meetings they were too junior to do on their own, owning some client interactions that would inform their work, representing their work to higher-level management, etc.). This was in a research/analytics team at a professional services company.

    2. Adereterial*

      I had 12 direct reports, 4 of them problematic. UK public sector, and pretty much no support, bar some ‘management’ training (which was theoretical, not practical). There were robust HR practices in place, but it was hard.

    3. Bagpuss*

      4 or 5, I think (it’s a while back) , and nothing formal but I had a couple of people who I could use as mentors or ask for help or advice. It as a role where the management wasn’t my main role, in a smallish organisation where senior people all wear several hats, not a dedicated management role.

      It was a weird situation as I became my former manager’s manager (they were not demoted, but I became a partner so leapfrogged them) It did mean introducing any changes to procedures etc was a bit tricky to navigate, but it helped that that individual didn’t need much direct managing.

    4. Anonymous for This One*

      6 direct reports (12 total in group, so half of them reported to my #2). No support for people management or for the subject area that was new to me. Expectation that I would also be a working manager, with my own projects. Two problem employees and a whole bunch of dead wood that didn’t quite rise to the level of “problem”. US public sector.

      1. Hotdog not dog*

        Are you me? Also 6, no training, player-coach. One on a PIP, two who were coasting to retirement, one solid worker, one superstar, and one knew the job but needed a lot of emotional support. Financial back office operations.

    5. Agency Survivor*

      My first management role was at a start up in the year 2000–I had six. I was 25. Startups were crazy!!
      I made many, many mistakes.

    6. ECE Policy Wonk*

      About 12-15 direct reports (some part-time / seasonal). I was in an Asst. Dir. role and had a Director (in another building with other direct reports) who was my mentor, and a total leadership team of 5 people who helped support me. But we were all in different buildings, and I didn’t report to the director who was my mentor (I reported to the ED). It was a good level of support for my first real management position.

      I’ve had roles with up to 40 direct reports (which was untenable, but my BOD refused to let me implement my own org. structure [spoiler alert: I left pretty quickly]). 12-15 is really my limit, and that’s only if they’re all doing essentially the exact same job.

    7. TechGirlSupervisor*

      I just started as a first-time manager as well. I have 9 direct reports (one is a contractor, so doesn’t require as much HR oversight). I’m in the defense contractor industry as a software manager. I wear two hats, one doing line management, another as a senior technical lead. Some of my direct reports work for other projects than the ones I am a technical lead for, others report to me for both. I got good on-boarding with my manager and some courses. They offer continuing training over the year for all line managers at my company. We have a limit of 10 people for direct reports. Between myself and the other software manager we have 19 people (and 2 co-ops/interns). We probably wouldn’t get a third manager until we got to about 24 people (so soon, since we are actively hiring).

    8. Coenobita*

      One and zero, respectively. That was pretty standard at my old job. I feel bad for all the staff who were new managers’ training wheels!

    9. NeonFireworks*

      8, and a moderate amount.

      It went fine for the most part, except that I wasn’t told with enough notice how to divide things up for the pre-holiday rush in December. This was someone else’s accidental oversight, but because I was being paid so much more than any of my reports and had zero holiday plans that year, I gave all 8 the maximum amount of time off over the holidays and spent an extra 10 days quietly doing all the loose ends basically alone in the office myself. Which was tolerable. But I’m glad to know better now.

    10. Rhymetime*

      I was a first-time manager at my last job. I had shied away from being in a supervisory role for years and took this job because it had only one report. It turns out I was offered no support unless I brought it up, and my own manager’s style was not helpful for mentoring. My report was new in their role but a high performer. Unfortunately, I was over my head in a supervisory role and not a good manager. I eventually helped to get my report a promotion to a peer, which was appropriate. That experience reinforced my initial perspective that I’m not interested in being a manager again.

    12. CSmithy*

      4 direct reports, minimal support and no training. My manager was very hands-off and far too busy to really be a resource.

      Thankfully I had an experience and supportive team of direct reports. I’m in the tech space and was at the time at a small startup, which probably says a lot!

  21. AnonBeret*

    Does “PTO” generally always refer to vacation + sick time?

    In my industry, PTO is just vacation time because the vast majority of companies offer unlimited sick leave. I had no idea they were conflated until the question Alison answered earlier today, but sounds like that may be more common than my interpretation?

    1. Constance Lloyd*

      As with all things it can vary. My current job has a bucket for sick time and another bucket they call PTO, which is in effect vacation time. My first professional job, however, had a single “PTO” bucket to cover not only sick and vacation time, but holidays the office was closed as well! I started at the beginning of December and had several unpaid days off because I hadn’t accrued enough PTO to be paid for the office holiday. (Companies: don’t do this.)

      1. AnonBeret*

        Wait WHAT. You had to take unpaid days for HOLIDAYS? Truly, companies, don’t do that. But yes, that’s a fair point that it varies and I probably shouldn’t be as surprised by that as I am. I think what caught me off-guard was Alison’s immediate assumption that 3 weeks PTO meant combined vacation + sick time, which made it sound like that’s more common than separate buckets and made me wonder if I should have been saying vacation instead of PTO all along when referring to non-sick-time-off.

        1. pope suburban*

          Yeah, my job is like that too. Full-time employees accrue four types of leave at a breakneck pace, but the rest of us get what feels like five minutes per paycheck, and have to use it on holidays when the offices are closed. It’s one of the major reasons I’m looking to leave; they lean on the rest of us a lot and I really don’t feel that five less hours a week mean I’m less of a valuable or functional employee. Having to dip in for mandated holidays while also using the same bucket for sick time and- god forbid- vacation is just unreasonable.

          1. LDN Layabout*

            Ouch. There’s a reason my org has a lot of part-timers (usually of the 4 days a week variety) and it’s because the only difference between PT and FT is that PTs have their leave allowance pro-rata…

        2. Very Social*

          My impression is that Alison assumed that the LW meant combined vacation + sick, since they were listing all the benefits their company provided and didn’t explicitly list sick time–not because it’s necessarily more common.

        1. So they all cheap ass rolled over and one fell out*

          I think this is referring to a policy of shutting down between Christmas and New Years. Some companies do that, and some of those companies do require you to either burn PTO/vacation or take it unpaid.

          1. So they all cheap ass rolled over and one fell out*

            Which I don’t disagree, is crappy of them. But is not uncommon.
            (The one company I worked at that shut down, gave it as paid holidays thankfully.)

          2. emmers*

            No, my last job did the same thing as the commenter above and it was for the standard federal holidays. It was a trash policy.

            1. RussianInTexas*

              My current one has 5 vacation days (10 from year 5), 4 sick days, and 5 paid holidays – Christmas Day, NY Day, Thanksgiving Day (but not Black Friday), Labor Day, Independence Day. We do not get paid Memorial Day off.
              Your paid holidays start after 6 months, and your PTO starts after a year, so in your first 6 months, if you want to be off on a holiday, you take it unpaid. Same for any non-holiday or sick time for the first year. It’s really stupid, because if you “work” on any of the holidays you don’t get as paid, you can basically turn on your laptop, and sleep, because nothing is happening. But you are “working”.
              It’s not retail, but it’s a manufacturing/distribution business which operates basically with the retail industry benefits.

          3. ThatGirl*

            That’s not what Constance Lloyd said, though; she said she didn’t have enough PTO to be paid for the company holiday.

            Either way, I think if a company is closing its offices on what would otherwise be a work day, it should be a paid day off that does not come out of PTO.

          4. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

            Nope! Mine was 15 days PTO including the 8 standard federal holidays when the office was closed – if you wanted to be paid for Memorial Day, you used a PTO day.

          5. Constance Lloyd*

            A bit late because I haven’t been watching, but nope! This was for Christmas Day and New Year’s Day. This company did not shut down for a whole week at any point and only acknowledged the bare minimum US federal holidays.

        2. calonkat*

          Working for the state was literally the first job I ever held that I got paid holidays/sick leave/vacation. Only 40 years of employment history by that point, but it’s not as uncommon as you think.

      3. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

        My first job did that too! “15 days PTO” sounded great until I realized that included the 8 paid holidays, leaving me 7 days for both vacation and illness.

    2. SofiaDeo*

      It depends on the company. I have worked at places where PTO was combined sick and vacation, and places where there was a separate sick leave. Mostly places that used the term “PTO” combines them, but that’s just my experience.

    3. NeedRain47*

      I get the impression that it varies, and also that it’s sometimes used to try to hide the fact the employer is ungenerous with vacation time.

      I’ve never worked anywhere that called anything PTO, always had separate vacation and sick time.

    4. Jaybee*

      In my experience, yes, PTO has always been a combined bucket for all paid time off. (Thus PTO) Including vacation and sick time.

      I’ve never worked anywhere or heard of any company that offers unlimited sick time.

      1. Nessun*

        We don’t have a maximum on sick time. You use it when you need it, and code it appropriately. If you are over 5 days off in a row then the HR group has to be informed due to benefit requirements and short term leave issues, but otherwise, you just …code your sick time when you’re sick. It’s basically unlimited.

        1. A*

          Same, only restrictions are that it shouldn’t be abused, and to work with HR if going to be out for more than three days at a time (in my observation it seems like they handle it on a case by case basis as to whether they then require a doctors note, or different types of leave to be used). It’s great – I take less sick days than I did when there was a set amount because people don’t feel pressured to come into work sick in order to bank those days.

    5. Kimmy Schmidt*

      In my experience, if a company calls it PTO, they’re lumping all leave into one bucket. However, there is also a more casual shorthand that people use to talk about time off, and that might get shortened to PTO regardless of the type of leave we’re talking about. So if I’m chatting with my friends across different industries, we might mention PTO but mean bereavement leave, sick time, vacation, personal days, or other types of leave.

    6. So they all cheap ass rolled over and one fell out*

      My employer had PTO (which covered sick, vacation, paternity, childcare emergencies, etc.) The only additional type of leave was bereavement. But then recently, they added a few days each of both sick time and floating holidays. I guess the difference is that unlike PTO, they don’t pay those out when you leave employment.

    7. Lady Danbury*

      I’ve always had separate buckets for sick and vacation, though neither was unlimited. I didn’t know that having one bucket for both was a thing until AAM but I would hate it. I always max out my vacation days, so I would either have to cut back on vacation time or risk having to take unpaid sick days if I didn’t have enough days left.

    8. Rosie*

      I do think there’s a difference in colloquially talking about PTO and what a company means by PTO. People tend to use it as an umbrella term in conversation regardless of if a company combines it or not

    9. I'm just here for the cats*

      This varies from company to company. I think PTO is just a general term to differentiate between paid leave and unpaid leave. Then there are usually buckets for sick leave, vacation, personal leave.

  22. DeepAnon*

    I’m being assigned work that is not typical for my role. The work is more interesting, but it also carries a lot more responsibility than my peers take on. Yes, I have the skills, but am not being given what I need in the way of time and support. That makes sense: the missing support is not usually provided for this job because it’s not usually needed and so our systems are not set up for me to get what I’d need.

    My supervisor understands and has been pushing back on my behalf, but both project managers and upper management keep assigning me higher-responsibility projects.

    People keep telling me, “That’s a great reason for you to get a raise!” But I don’t want a raise that carries the expectation that things will continue in this vein. I want an easier job than I have had in the past, which means the level of responsibility typical for this role. Money’s nice, but not the expectation that it makes up for the increased responsibility.

    Entropy being what it is, I can’t really expect this to stop, but I would like to slow it down. Any tips?

    1. Friday clockwatcher*

      If your goal is to have the work slow down then I would be frank that the deadlines need to push out or fewer projects should be assigned. If your supervisor has not been effective in making that clear, are you able to respond to the project managers with that directly when assignments hit your inbox?
      I am in a somewhat similar situation. I met my breaking point this year and requested to be removed from the project. The client rejected that but I found the honest discussion with the clients (after telling my boss that I was doing so) regarding my lack of support and experience allowed me to let go of some of the responsibility and much of the stress. I still dislike the project but now when I miss deadlines or make mistakes at least I know they are well aware of my position and opted to continue.

      1. DeepAnon*

        Solidarity!
        Yeah, the assignments are always described as urgent and exceptions. Problem is, as a result, I haven’t built up deep knowledge of our actual processes and practices because I’m so often dealing with exceptions. Then I’m the only one, or one of only 2, who knows what’s going on at any given time, while also being quite low on the food chain and having very little clout.

        1. Friday clockwatcher*

          If you didn’t dislike it I would suggest you try to continue. In my field dealing with the exceptions on a regular basis makes for a greater understanding of what is possible and why, a deeper understanding of the work if not the standard processes. Its paid off for me now, but it is very tiring not to be able to fall back on established processes and is absolutely more time consuming. I have leaned on requesting help from my coworkers for the “easy” processes that I know they deal with a lot while they are able to come with me for the tricky items they haven’t dealt with. If your role functions within a team it can be a good set up although not helpful if you aren’t enjoying the role.

    2. Bagpuss*

      What support is needed? Is it something where you can refer the project back to the person who assigned it at that point (e.g “I’ve done a & b, but as I don’t have support I can’t do c or d as that request [specify the support needed] – if you would like me to do c & d can you confirm who is assigned to provide me with the necessary support / how soon can the training / equipment needed be allocated?” or as appropriate.

      Right now, they are getting the higher level work done without the effort or expense of providing the support, so maybe you need to try to stop that by asking specifically for the support each time? Squeaky wheel.

      if you know what needs to change then you can put that in each time e.g. “If IT can give me access to x / add me to the authorised users for Y, I would be able to complete this task, can that be set up, if not, who should I pass this on to to complete this part of the project?”

      1. DeepAnon*

        I’m trying to figure out how to explain more without coworkers recognizing me. :)

        Essentially, though, I don’t want the resources to do these assignments; I want to do the job I was hired to do instead of the one they have found out I can do.

        1. Cold Fish*

          Is there any way to see if a coworker may be interested in learning or developing their skills in this area? Maybe you could try mentoring/steering one of them into the role instead of you. Especially as it sounds like your manager is aware this isn’t the direction where you want your role heading.

    3. Not So NewReader*

      The very first thing I’d look at is the quals for the role. And this is just for your own self-protection. You do not want to be working on something that requires education, certification or experience that you do not have. First and foremost do not allow yourself to fall into legal jeopardy.

      I had a friend who was working without proper certifications and it went into news paper headlines. She felt she had to do the work for [reasons]. In reality those reason did not matter, which is why I am not stating the reasons here. The situation was cut and dry- she did not have the certifications necessary for the job she was doing, period.

      Next and this is more of an action step: Ask your supervisor to announce that all requests for your labor must go through your supervisor first. Tell her you want to be able to say, “I can only accept assignments from my direct supervisor. You will have to clear it with her. I am not allowed to just go ahead and do the work.”

      Make sure you keep telling your supervisor that you do not want the work. Don’t let up on this.

  23. Free Meerkats*

    Well, word came down from Administration last Friday that the people who can are back to working from home. I work for a small city and we have already gotten push back from some members of the public. “Wasting tax money lazing around in our PJs” and the like.

    My group is back to one person in the office each day. I developed a fairly decent setup at home over the first go ’round, but took the good chair back to the office. Since this is a week-to-week thing this time, I’m not sure if I want to bring it home again. My home computer chair is OK for occasional 6 hour gaming sessions, but not all day, every day.

    The case rate for city employees is ~5% right now and my department is at ~15%. My small workgroup is at 25% – but we only have 4 people.

    How’s your Covid adventure going?

    1. Stuckinacrazyjob*

      They’re making all sessions face to face in the middle of the surge and using the misguided CDC quarantine thing even though you’re often too sick to get services for some time..

    2. The Smiling Pug*

      One of my soon-to-be-former coworkers (today’s my last day) is out with a positive test. Thankfully, she left and is now quarantining at home.

    3. Michelle*

      Our city is overwhelmed with cases and has recently been moved back to the highest threat level, and we are taking zero official precautions. Everything is open and in-person throughout the city, kids are in school, we are legally forbidden from having mask mandates or requiring vaccines (except where the federal government has been able to force it), and generally most people are pretending the pandemic is over. My mother refuses to travel, not because she’s worried about her health, but because everywhere she wants to go requires a mask and she hasn’t worn one in months. I think my immediate family are the only people I know who haven’t had COVID yet (or in the past month, for that matter). Personally, I just upgraded to an N95 mask and am in the process of making sure my children get their boosters now that they qualify.

      1. Chilipepper Attitude*

        I’m guessing you are a fellow Floridian due to the “legally forbidden from having mask mandates or requiring vaccines” part.
        My workplace is private and does require everyone wear a mask indoors – I “only” have to remind about 50% of the people to wear them. At a local, government version of my workplace, a worker was attacked when they asked a member of the public to wear a mask. Thankfully they were treated by the paramedics and were back to work the next day but that is bad.

    4. OyHiOh*

      A week ago Wednesday, one of our remote staff went out for beers/watch a game, after a day of site meetings. This is probably where Patient Zero was exposed. The following day, a second day of site visits, Patient Zero worked side by side with my New Office Mate. New Office Mate worked in the office with me on Friday, and then we had brunch together with my partner on Sunday. Monday, Patient Zero informed us of confirmed positive COVID. The four of us who actually work in the main office all immediately went into procedural, who was exposed to whom and when mode. My Old Office Mate and New Office Mate both tested positive on Wednesday. The big boss and I so far are negative.

      It’s taken close to two years of COVID for me to get “this close” to having COVID. On the one hand, I understand that just about everyone will eventually get it but on the other, I have a bunch of dysautonomia symptoms that are similar, in some ways, to long haul COVID and I would not wish that constellation on my worst enemy, even if, as is the case right now, my symptoms are well controlled with a variety of lifestyle choices.

    5. NoRulesandthePointsDontMatter*

      We’ve been in office the entire pandemic. Omicron finally hit our office and we’re running at 35% cases. Remote work has never been offered and been actively denied. I cried in counseling this week. I think my nerves are totally shot.

      1. meagain*

        I’m sorry. It is stressful. I hate that the guidelines now say if you have been exposed, no quarantine needed unless you have symptoms. So people are still coming into work even though their spouse has tested positive, or sending their other kids to school even if one sibling is home with covid. And of course these people all end up testing positive a few days later after they have already exposed everyone. The guidelines are so conflicting and a total mess. I’m in the south and it’s like covid doesn’t exist here even though our rates are extremely high.

    6. Cj*

      In my office of seven, one co-worker was out the week after Christmas with covid-19 that she caught on Christmas Eve, and her sister that I also work with was out this week. She got it from her son who got it from school.

    7. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      I’m luckily not one of the people who has to do a handful of face to face appointments each week, but still have to haul in 3x/wk to do virtual activities from an open workspace.

      Trying to decide whether to invest in a docking station as they finally just issued us work laptops, and I’d like a less annoying set up process at home. I already bought my own laptop, chair, headsets etc. I’m a bit burned out with the fund it yourself strategy.

    8. OtterB*

      My office opened up over the summer but nobody was required to go in and mostly we don’t. Especially since rates started ticking up again. I think a couple of my coworkers have had Covid, but nobody I’d seen in months except over Zoom and nobody had a serious case.

      My husband’s federal office is technically on maximum feasible telework, but he’s a maintenance engineer and more days than not, he has to actually get his hands on the equipment. There’s been a steady trickle of coworkers with Covid, which is part of the reason for the maximum feasible telework – they want to protect the people who MUST come in so that the facility can continue to operate. Husband got tested last week (negative) due to contact at a volunteer gig with someone who tested positive – they were mostly outside, but working closely together.

      Not work, but I’m a board member of a social organization currently deciding whether to cancel an in-person event in two weeks. We probably will. But if I have one more Zoom call about PCR tests and masks and so forth, I’m going to scream.

    9. JustaTech*

      On New Year’s corporate said “if you can WFH, do” to which my director replied “except lab staff, you come in”. So we did that (masked, everyone at our site is vaccinated [we’re reasonably sure]) for about two days and then everyone went back to “WFH unless you have lab work or an office to hide in”.

      Someone has tested positive, but we don’t know who, only that they were not working on-site when they tested positive and that they’re not back yet. If there was more contact tracing done I don’t know about it.

      So yeah, that’s the closest call we’ve had so far at our site (had one coworker out because their kid tested positive, but they didn’t). Not super thrilled, but glad we’re not getting any pushback on not being onsite.

    10. Paris Geller*

      Pretty sure those people complaining about tax money will not like it when essential services start shutting down because there’s NO ONE to do them. I also work for a city and that’s where we’re at right now. My department hasn’t been too badly hit (except for me, as I have just returned after having covid for the second time–ugh), but yeah, turns out when an entire department is down an entire department is, well, down.

    11. Purple Cat*

      Just before New Year’s we were asked to work from home through mid Jan.
      That’s since been extended to early Feb…

      It’s deja vu all over again.

    12. Pam Adams*

      My campus has decided that the first 3 weeks of Spring term will be virtual. After that, we will see. (Biting the bullet one nibble at a time). The campus remains open and staff can rotate between office and work-from-home.

      My team is trying to do 1 day/week in-office each, but have been adjusting as needed, due to people who got Covid over the holidays.

    13. Aphrodite*

      Crazy! I work for a community college in southern coastal California. The college and the union (for classified employees), I have to say, have been fantastic. We went to WFH in March 2020. Were going to come back in June 2021, July 2021 and then in August 2021 for the fall term. The union got us a $40 per day bonus for up to four days a week, minimum of two hours work on campus. I went in M-TH for 4-7 hours per day and worked at home on Fridays. Fortunately, I have a nice private office.

      We took the Christmas break but have been home again (with the exception of security and grounds) from January 4 through today. Classes were postponed, and many of them are now online until February then are scheduled to go to in person. Other classes are wholly online or wholly in person, the latter mostly lab type ones. (I work in adult ed.). We went from Healthy Roster to Cleared4, and I have had some trouble adjusting with the technology but am okay now. That bonus has been extended though most of May so I am anxious to get back.

      Overall, I am proud of my employer for its caution and adherence to CDC and local Public Health department guidelines. It is not kidding around and very few exemptions were granted. As an older person I am much relieved, especially because of the stories that continue to pop up here and at the New York Times.

    14. Part time Professional*

      My small city has been in-person since this past summer, but we’ve been one person in the office at a time for the last two weeks.

      Citizens are unhappy we’re here but also unhappy when we weren’t, but now I get to close my office door at least!

    15. Coenobita*

      My day job has been fully remote since March 2020, but we’re still having staffing issues since basically everyone who has kids is dealing with some level of quarantine/no childcare/being sick themselves/all of the above. We had a snowstorm recently and there was a big cascading situation where there weren’t enough people to drive the plows/fix the utility lines/etc., so schools were closed, so teachers who live here but teach in nearby less-snow-affected districts had to stay home with their kids, so THOSE schools were also closed… oy!

      My side gig is with my local public library system, and we’re closing entire branches for days at a time because we don’t have enough staff. Luckily our extreme testing shortage seems to be easing up.

    16. A*

      We were planning to return to office at least one day a week min-Jan, but they just pushed it to ‘sometime in Feb’. Then ramping up to 3 days a week starting in March (they are allowing 3 day a week WFH hybrid permanently). All dates subject to change, of course.

    17. WoodswomanWrites*

      My employer has a combination of people who can work from home, like me, and others whose jobs can’t be done remotely. They are taking everything as seriously as they have from the beginning, including providing PPE, and no one is required to be in the office unless we individually determine that we need to be there. We have a sign-up process to limit how many people can be in the building at the same time, with strict masking protocols. We are looking at a hybrid model long term for office workers that was originally supposed to start this spring but it will likely be delayed. I feel fortunate to work in a place that values everyone’s health.

    18. Grace Less*

      It’s traveling down my row of desks — but I should stay in the office and not worry. The company president vocally celebrated SCOTUS striking down the vaccine mandate and the executive over me actually said (while I was reporting as the last uninfected person and wearing a KN95) “everyone will get it eventually. It’s fine.” Except, you know, with my pre-existing conditions it is unlikely to be fine. All emails have been saved to an external folder for use in the wrongful death lawsuit. Not even kidding.

    19. Chaordic One*

      I’ve been working from home for the past 20 months. I’ve actually worked from home, for more than half of the time I’ve been in my current position. The office gossip was that after a vaccine mandate, we’d probably be called back to the office in January or so. Every time someone in the building I used to work out of is diagnosed with COVID, they send out an email informing us about it and they send a cleaning crew to “sanitize” their work stations and the restrooms and break rooms the newly infected used. (The office is like high school the day after Carrie went to the prom. There aren’t many kids around.)

      Things seemed like they were calming down right before Christmas and the week after. There was only a single announcement the week before Christmas and another single announcement Christmas week and I can’t imagine who might be left there to get infected. But then, last week and all of this week there have been a ton of emails announcing newly-infected people. Many of them were from the week before Christmas, the week between Christmas and New Year’s, and the week after New Year’s.

      The emails don’t let us know if the newly infected are unvaccinated or experiencing breakthrough infections, but the consensus among my team members is that most of the newly infected are already vaccinated and having breakthrough infections. In fact, several of them have been diagnosed with COVID, but were experiencing mild symptoms and though they were quarantining, the are continuing to work from home. One confessed that it probably was not a good idea to go to the Rose Bowl.

  24. The Smiling Pug*

    Hello everyone!! Today is my last day at my old job!! I’m feeling a bit nervous about the transition from on-site to fully remote, so I technically have two questions. 1. Did anyone else have these jitters when switching jobs, and 2. What did you do to assuage or pacify these fears?

    1. awesome3*

      Of course, it’s like any other life change or transition. My best advice is to think about times you’ve made a change and it’s had a positive impact on your life.

    2. Not So NewReader*

      You can:
      Decide to postpone worry until the first day of the job. This works sometimes. If you are a night time worrier like me, then tell yourself that you will think about it in the morning as nothing is ever resolved at 9 pm.

      Make a solid rebuttal to fear by telling yourself, “I am going to rock this new job! I am going to be the best me I have ever been!”

      Look for ways to prep your at home workspace. Sometimes even a trivial activity such as locating a good garbage can is enough to get the brain off an endless loop of “omg”.

      Call a good friend or close family member. Personal connections can help us feel grounded rather than adrift at sea.

    3. Lizy*

      Oh yeah. Did my research, then did more research, then panicked, then husband did research, got the equipment, breathed a bit, panicked a bit more, started the job, got log in info, figured they aren’t going to go through all this if it’s a scam, right?, then finally got my first paycheck and … it’s real. :)

  25. Just Another Sharon*

    This may have been discussed somewhere already, and if so maybe someone can direct me, but what are some good questions to ask in an interview that would truly help reveal the culture/work-life balance stance of the company and the management style of the manager?

    1. irene adler*

      manager: How do you support your reports? (a good manager will take this question seriously. A bad one will laugh and make a joke about it).
      Tell me about a time when… your report did not meet expectations/your report went above and beyond the call of duty/your report lacked a needed skill to complete the task/your report requested enrichment tasks as they were well able to complete their assigned tasks… you get the idea.

      Culture: tell me about how the company handled some bad news or a bad event that has happened (i.e. a downsizing or failing to win an account) and what lessons did management learn from this experience.

      Tell me about an employee success story.
      Tell me about how a difficult company-wide project was completed successfully.

      I straight out ask “what does work/life balance mean to this company?”

      1. irene adler*

        This would have an interesting answer.
        “Nothing. Our employees have never experienced any kind of burnout.”
        Yeah, right.

    5. Chauncy Gardener*

      A riff on Alison’s perfect question: What kind of person succeeds best in the role/with your management style?

      Once when I was interviewing I asked the HR Manager “how would you describe the corporate culture here?” and he said “ummm, I’ll let the founder tell you that.” LOL. I cut that one short

  26. should I apply?*

    Curious what managers and executives would do in this situation. Like many companies we have had pretty high turn over in the last year. We are located in the Seattle area which is a pretty competitive for technical / marketing / project management. Since there are big players
    here like Amazon, Microsoft, etc.. My company is an adjacent field but there is enough overlap that we lose of a lot of people to them and haven’t replaced nearly enough. Our pay / benefits are decent but definitely not on the level of these tech companies.

    Last spring when this started to be an issue, management said they were going to do a pay review to see where we are in the market (with my assumption that they would at least try to make us more competitive). Since then there hasn’t been any communication and we have continued to loose more and more key people.

    At this point, I am assuming that either they didn’t do the analysis or if they did, decided they couldn’t compete with the big companies and aren’t going to do anything significant. So if you were on that management team – would you make some announcement (& what would you say?) or just hope that people forgot you promised to review it.

    1. So they all cheap ass rolled over and one fell out*

      Have you asked management about the status of the analysis?

      I work at a small company in the Seattle area, so we face the same struggle. But also as a small company, the people doing those kinds of analysis are often wearing many hats and things can take a long time / get deprioritized (hopefully temporarily).

      1. should I apply?*

        I brought it up recently to my manager. I got on a non-answer which is why I am curious what others would do.

    2. RussianInTexas*

      Partner’s company, while not a tech per se, but has a large tech presence in his specific industry, was having the same issues. They actually did the pay review, and did the adjustments. He got a 12% pay bump – their benefits are already excellent. This happened only last fall, so it’s too early to tell if it was successful in stopping the brain drain, or getting better employees.

    3. moochan*

      >or just hope that people forgot you promised to review it.

      I’m based in Seattle and this kind of stuff is exactly why I just switched jobs. I wanted to avoid going to Amazon/Facebook and am fine with lower pay and not having certain benefits. I don’t have time for bullshit, and in this market, I didn’t need to entertain any bullshit when I was recently looking. (I’m not a dev, fwiw, but I do have technical skills.) Be as transparent and honest as you can be.

  27. Silly gosling*

    How is everyone coping with the uptick in cases? I found out yesterday that my office mate is Covid +, so I’m playing a waiting game. It makes it hard to focus on work. I get to still come to work. I live in a state/industry that legally can’t mandate masks, so my other office mates still aren’t masking. There’s also no way to make my coworker wear one for five days after returning from quarantine. I am stressed to say the least.

    1. Kathenus*

      There are so many things out of our control related to the pandemic, whether at work or in general life. The best thing I’ve found when I can’t control things in these situations is to really focus on what I can control – double masking or if you have access an N95, meticulous social distancing for yourself no matter how awkward it might feel to do so, etc. It’s frustrating as all get out when others around you aren’t doing the right thing – looking at you unmasked guy in the grocery store line who kept crowding me to where I moved to the other side of my cart to get distance – but there are some things that we can all control to some extent at least so use those as much as possible. Good luck.

    2. Elizabeth West*

      Staying up to date on vaccinations; still masking; not going anywhere I don’t have to, except for the occasional movie, and I try to book the showing most likely to be empty.

      I’m not working yet, but I’m definitely asking about COVID protocols in interviews.

    3. anonymoose*

      I’m talking to my boss next week to see if I can work from home again. The numbers in my country are going through the roof so I don’t want to be here if I don’t have to be. I’m lucky in that our office requires masks and vaccinations but people are getting complacent. Walked past a conf room that was crammed with people at a meeting where lunch was provided so masks were not worn. Then had an interesting conversation with coworker who thought I was over reacting until I pointed out that she has her own office and rarely has passing foot traffic in her area of the building. I’m in an open plan space with a high traffic area and people constantly walking past my desk.

    4. Rosie*

      I mostly hide out in my office =/ Feeling like a terrible distant manager but also we had 5 people out with COVID right after the holidays (and there’s only 18 of us here) and several who reported being exposed and despite HR and our lawyer saying it was ok to require masks one of our owners refuses to let us. Most people have been wearing them anyway but not everyone

    5. Anon for this*

      Spouse is faculty in a state university system where vax mandates or mask mandates are illegal as per state law and they are not allowed to go remote. They’re cramming kids into windowless lecture halls like it’s 1999.

      This decision is wildly unpopular at all levels so the administration is handing out N95s like free pizza in the Before Times. Administration is doing everything that is within the scope of their power, at least. There’s only so much they can do when the Big Boss (the governor) is a moron.

    6. Construction Safety*

      Felt a little body achy on Sunday. Heavy gym workout on Saturday, so it didn’t raise suspicions.After dinner on Monday, got uncontrollable chills. Tested positive Tuesday morning.

      I have lost 5 pounds. I do not recommend the program.

    7. mreasy*

      How is it constitutional that state government can forbid business mask mandates when the supremes just said the federal government can’t impose them? I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this.

    8. Anonymous Germophobe*

      Also feeling incredibly anxious about the uptick in cases. I have an unvaccinated co-worker who can’t wear their mask properly (always under the nose) and never gets tested. Another co-worker is vaccinated but not boosted and only masks when the manager is around.

      Despite, y’know, a universal indoors mask mandate just being implemented.

      I am very careful to leave my emotions and opinions at the door when I come to work, but it’s getting very difficult not to feel anger and frustration towards the unvaxxed coworker because people like them are the reason this has gone on for so long and why people can’t get the vital non-Covid medical care and hospital beds they need.

      1. Loves libraries*

        Georgia and my mid size city still doesn’t have an indoor mask mandate. Headline in the newspaper today said cases are surging in our city.

  28. Rey*

    I’m currently in the interview process and the HR contact gave me a quick overview of the benefits package yesterday. It’s such an improvement over my current company, and it really cements how much I want this job. I think it would be a really good growth opportunity and there’s a clear path of how they help employees keep growing, and the company culture seems really engaging and like they really care about the employee’s quality of life and balance. The last six months has been pretty discouraging at my current job, so I’m excited to finally see some chances for improvement. Fingers crossed that my next call with the hiring team on Tuesday goes well.

    1. irene adler*

      Good luck! Your positive feelings about this company are showing through your post. Show those feelings to them!

  29. friends with the mustard under my bed*

    I’ve been in my current role for about 2.5 years and have been looking for other jobs both internally and externally. I work in tech and there are a lot of opportunities right now that I’d love to take advantage of. Currently I am in the interview process (3rd round) for an external role that I am interested in, but it’s not my dream job. An internal role opened up on my current team that is kind of a lateral move, but a completely different and interesting role. My current manager manages that role as well, and was very excited when I expressed interest in that role. I am interested in the job, and I like my current team, but again it is not my dream job. My manager has made it pretty clear that the internal role is mine if I want it, but I still need to go through my company’s process which is slower than molasses. Do I need to tell her that I’m interviewing externally? If the external role comes through with a higher salary, I would take it, otherwise, I will take the internal role.

    1. Lady Danbury*

      I wouldn’t inform her that you’re interviewing externally unless you have the type of relationship where you would have told her if there was no internal role (and even then, I’d err on the side of caution). I would continue with the interview process of both roles and decide which one is preferable when you actually have offer(s) in hand. Hopefully the external offer comes first so that you have full details to decide if it’s worth leaving.

    2. Bex SF*

      Any chance you can talk to your boss about leveling up the internal role? Something like “I think this would be an incredibly interesting opportunity and I’m excited to talk about it, but I’m a little worried that moving laterally would lock my into my current level for a while longer. After 2.5 years of strong performance (assuming that’s true) I’d hoped that my next role would be a step up. Would that be possible here?”

    3. Sleeping Late Every Day*

      JMO, but I’d stop thinking of any job as “not my dream job.” It’s like waiting for Prince Charming in a romantic search. Sometimes what looks like a frog turns into Prince Charming. And sometimes what looks like Prince Charming is a poisonous frog.

  30. Bex*

    I have a colleague, Sam*, who is significantly underperforming. It’s been this way for a while – apparently he was burned out when my other colleague, Rick*, started and it just continued on a downward trend.

    Why is this a me problem? Because Sam and I are now the only ones in our role at our location (Rick went for and obtained a well deserved promotion, hooray!!), and I am worried that I’ll be expected to carry us now.

    The company is not, at this time, planning on backfilling Rick’s role – if it is filled, the position will be at another location 2 1/2 hours south of us.

    I just went through our ticket report (we work IT), and since beginning of September, there have been 3 weeks where Sam outperformed me (one of which I was on vacation for). Meanwhile, there are 8 weeks where I outperformed Sam by at least 100%.

    I tried to address this with our manager yesterday, but her solution was to institute a recurring weekly meeting where we would review the tickets that are open. Previous managers (as well as interim manager, and bosses who departed a while ago) all seem to share a lack of desire to directly address Sam’s laziness (we’ve all caught him sleeping in the office etc), and have sometimes suggested it was Rick & my’s job to address Sam’s lack of productivity.

    I’m going to have a frank conversation with my manager today. While I’ve brought things up, it’s been general observations – nothing backed by hard data like ticket numbers.

    But … I’m worried. Is this just me rattling on a coworker? Does this seem spiteful to bring up the numbers? I’m just so tired and I can’t keep carrying things …

    1. ArtK*

      Focus the conversation on how Sam’s issues are affecting the company. That’s not ratting, that’s giving a manager necessary information. Absolutely bring up numbers. That gives the manager something concrete. “Sam’s a lazy git” isn’t actionable; “Sam only did 5 tickets last week” is.

    2. Policy Wonk*

      Weekly review meetings won’t help and will just take up more of your time. Start looking for another job. They are just going to expect you to continue to do Sam’s work as well as your own.

    3. Anonymous Koala*

      This situation sucks, but it’s not your problem, it’s your supervisor’s problem. If you decide to say something I would only focus on how Sam’s work is affecting you and how your boss can make it right *for you*. For example, if your team has trouble meeting collective metrics because of Sam’s performance, can your supervisor set individual goals instead of group ones and only hold you accountable for your share? If other teams are complaining because of response time because you’re trying to do the work of two people, can you ask your supervisor to address their complaints directly? Try and put all the problems Sam causes back on your boss’s plate instead of your own.

    4. Bagpuss*

      I would actually say that to your manager. “I am exhausted. I’ve been trying to make up for the shortfall in Sam’s productivity but it’s not sustainable. I am burning out and I can’t continue to effectively do my own job and half / 2/3s of Sams. For instance, last week I dealt with 50 tickets, Sam dealt with 5. A reasonable level would be around 25-30 tickets a week,

      Then, moving forward, start letting Sam fail. respond to fewer tickets. If people chase you, refer them to Sam. depending on how the system works, if they are contacting you direct, you can say ‘Oh, Sam has more capacity than me right now, so speak to him about that.

      If they are all in one queue then take the ones you can take. If that means that wait times get longer or things don’t get done, then that starts to make it your manager’s problem, and your conversation with them is again “I raised that this was an issue. As you can see, I’ve dealt with 35 tickets so far this week, Sam has only dealt with 6. I can’t realistically increase the numbers I am dealing with” Hopefully you can have the initial conversation one to one with your manager but if they are group meetings then you change up the wording a little. “I can’t take on more tickets than I’m already managing. I’ve covered 35 this week. Sam has only done 6. Sam, can you step up and make sure that you are taking on more tickets so we don’t get these delays? ”

      if that doesn’t work, maybe ask for a one-to-one with your manager and ask that for a period, you have a rigid policy that tickets are allocated as they arrive, alternately to you and to Sam, so that you each have your own individual caseload and 9if applicable) those raising the ticket can see straight away who is responsible for it.

    5. Been there done that*

      Easier said than done (and I say that as someone who failed dismally to accomplish this) but focus the discussion on your own metrics. So “on a weekly basis we get x tickets-what sort of expectation is there around how many I should be targeting closing out?”. Leaves your manager open to either say 50% of x (and then he/she will work out for themselves Sam isn’t hitting that number by a long way), or give you say 75% because that’s what you normally hit and you can start to ask what’s driving that allocation, and if it’s a strong previous record whether there’s a way of acknowledging it’s beyond the norm such as pay rise, increased PTO, flexible working etc.

      Or there’s option b which I took when I failed at this. My boss also failed at any sort of fairness. I left and am infinitely happier-but I never ever even look at others numbers now so the lesson was learned….and my boss was left with a team of low performers.

    6. Bex*

      Thanks all for the advice. I tried to focus the conversation primarily on the hard facts – my disproportionate share of the workload, the overall effect on ticket closure time, and the important tasks that have significantly slipped (replacement equipment etc) because of it. That … got kinda brushed aside with a reminder that we now have a recurring meeting to discuss open tickets!

      I also tried to bring up concern about the number of end users we support who have flat out said they will no longer go to Sam, because of his failure to follow up (side note- last month I got handed a software upgrade project Sam had been sitting on for 2 years, despite what appear to be monthly email follow ups from the stakeholder). I was told that until the end users complain directly to our manager, she doesn’t have anything actionable.

      So. I’m ending the day feeling kind of defeated.

      I really like my role, and the vast majority of colleagues. Other than my manager’s tendency to waaaaay overdo it on the meetings/frequency, I like her and believe she could be overall quite effective and well placed in this role. I actually like my company overall – for a global soul-sucking corporation, they’re not too bad and actually seem to care a bit about community support and enrichment, diversity & inclusion, etc.

      But I’m sitting here, trying to figure out if I’ll be okay with this if I’m in the same position a year from now. And I don’t think I will be.

      Ah well. Thanks again for the good advice all :)

      1. AcademiaNut*

        The other thing you can do is disengage emotionally, do what you can without burning out, and let the consequences happen (possibly at the same time you’re looking for something else).

        Make the shortfall their problem, not yours. If everything gets done without them having to worry about it, there’s no incentive for them to fix things.

      2. Jo*

        Super late, but you have an answer here – make it her problem by getting users to complain to her! Stop being helpful and if you cant take on work, tell people to direct it to her. Annoying – yes, but if thats what she wants, then you can do it.

        1. Bex*

          We’ve tried that route before but I’m going to reemphasize it to end users.

          Sam is a genuinely nice person who just happens to be an awful colleague, and I think people are having trouble separating personal fond feelings from work expectations and obligations.

          But yes. I’ve started today in referring people to write an email with complaints about Sam’s output etc, as well as being open that I cannot take excessive work on.

  31. PhoneAnxiety*

    Any tips on dealing with anxiety around answering phone calls? I am regularly avoid picking up work calls. Typically people will email when they don’t reach me, so it hasn’t been an issue yet, but could easily become one. Have no problem participating in scheduled calls.

    1. SillyGosling*

      Lean in to the fact that you are playing a role and channel whoever you feels answers the phone the best. Exactly what about answering the phone is anxiety producing? If it is having to produce answers on the fly, create scripts and notes. I have the answers to common questions on sticky notes on my phone. You can always say that you need to get back to them.

      When I had trouble making calls, I used to put a piece of candy in my line of vision. I couldn’t eat that candy until I made the call. Silly but it worked.

    2. Albeira Dawn*

      (1) Mainly what helped me was working at a front desk where I had to answer the phones. Not a practical solution for most people, but it works!
      (2) Having a script for common scenarios, including picking up. Unknown number? “Hi, this is Alison at Ask A Manager, how can I help you?” Company number? “Hi, this is Alison!” Someone needs to know where a document is? “I can shoot the location over to you by email, just a sec.” They need something that you’re not sure about? “Huh, I’m not sure! Let me look into that and get back to you. Is this a good number?” Also important for me is figuring out how to sign off. “Thanks for letting me know, I’ll get back to you if anything else comes up!” “Take care!” “Have a good weekend!” Don’t be afraid to write out a little dialogue tree or practice if you think that’ll help. Having the muscle memory of set phrases helps override the anxiety, at least for me.
      (3) Knowing that in many cases, the party on the other end of the line also isn’t a phone wizard. No one is judging you for being a little awkward over the phone.

    3. Beancat*

      Hello, fellow phone anxiety worker. I’ve been struggling with this too.

      – Are you able to let calls go to voicemail and then return them, or is your job one where you’re required to answer the phone?
      – Sometimes I let myself take a few moments to breathe before picking up the phone if it’s a call that I have to take.
      – I keep small things at my desk that make me smile, like a tiny plush or a picture of my cats, and seeing them helps me relax a little.
      – Is your job one where you can create scripts? We usually get certain kinds of calls and can pretty reliably follow a script for most of them. It takes some of the anxiety out of not knowing what to say, which is often why I avoid the phone.

      I hope these help, and best of luck to you!

    4. CTT*

      Okay, so this is the same advice I gave to the person getting spam calls, but: if you can, let things go to voicemail and be diligent about calling back. I don’t have phone anxiety, but I do deal with a decent amount of out-of-the-blue calls (lawyer), and I tend to let calls go to voicemail if I can tell it’s someone I haven’t heard from in a while or on a deal that’s not active. Usually, the voicemail will be “calling about X, please give me a call back,” and I can take the time I need to brush up on X before returning the call. It’s a better conversation for me and the caller if I can competently discuss their issue and not try to pull from off the top of my head.

      1. MsOctopus*

        So as a counterpoint, I have struggled with phone anxiety and found it much easier in the long run to *not* let calls go to voicemail, but to pull off the proverbial bandaid and answer them right away (for me, “ringing phone”=one burst of anxiety/adrenaline. “Pressing play on VM” and “initiating a new call” just created two MORE anxiety spikes and also tempted me to procrastinate) Obviously this is a situation where different strategies work for different folks, and picking up calls right away did take some practice, but I think it really helped me in the end.
        Also agree with the advice others have shared to have a pen and paper handy for writing down notes, names, etc—even doodling can be helpful!

    5. PrincessFlyingHedgehog*

      What specifically makes you anxious around answering calls? (I had some bad anxiety making calls, which I worked through, but not answering, so this is a genuine question.) I think if you can pin-point a few reasons, it will be easier to address those issues, and in some instances, write up scripts you could go to. Also, if you don’t know the answer or aren’t confident about what you think is the answer, you can always tell people you’ll go look for that info and follow up via email. (If you frame it as you want to make sure you’re giving people the correct info the first time, the majority of people accept that.)

    6. Suprisingly ADHD*

      The biggest help is practice, unfortunately. Do you have a friend who would sit in another room and call your cellphone (out of work hours)? That would let you practice without worrying about messing up a job.

      I also recommend what others have suggested – write your own scripts for specific topics! Greeting, getting the person’s name/number, giving a phone number/address, transferring a call, and goodbye are the obvious ones, but I go the extra step and have phrases to stall for time. “One moment, let me grab a pen.” “I can look that up and call you back in a few minutes.” “Would you mind holding while I ask him?” “Sorry, I misspoke, the correct number is…” “We have a bad connection, can you speak a little slower please?” Type up a cheat sheet for yourself, with your stock phrases, and the most commonly requested information. Grab it before you pick up the phone, so if you get flustered, you have some guidance.

      Keep a pen and scrap paper next to the phone. Write down the name/company, and what they want, while you’re talking. That can take pressure off of remembering everything.

    7. Not So NewReader*

      Practice at home in front of the bathroom mirror. Get used to your own voice saying, “XYZ company, this is OP.”
      You can add, “What can I help you with?”

      My biggest problem with the phone is the connections here are so baaaad. I do not have a phone fear but I am slowly gaining one. I am so sick of saying, “Please repeat that?”. If you have a problem with hearing because of the connections, then practice your answer to this at home also. “I’m sorry, we have a bad connection and I can’t hear you.”

      Def write out scripts and use them. Keep it short. People want their answer and then they want to move on. So you do not need to be fancy. It’s okay to sound very practical. “I can get then answer for you and call you back shortly.”

      When I first started working, I had a little bit of phone fear which was unusual for me. I realized that I was not exactly afraid of the phone. I was afraid of not having an answer for the person. Once I identified my actual fear I was able to disarm it some what. We had resources by the phone that I could use. (This was years ago where there was ONE phone in the center of the work area.) I also saw over time that the people asked a huge range of questions and it was NOT reasonable to know all the answers. The reasonable thing was for me to know WHO to ask to get the answer. You may find reframing helpful if this part resonates with you.

      Currently, I have a small binder with all my contacts. I can pull that out if a person needs to talk to Bob over at xyz agency. I have Bob’s name and phone handy. I have another small binder just filled with schedules. If someone calls and wants to know when X happens, I can pull out my binder and look it up. My point here is that it’s super important to understand that a lot of people do not know the answers off the top of their heads. Make sure you are not expecting yourself to know the price of tea in China off the top of your head. It’s not a reasonable expectation. Sometimes part of taming this problem is just figuring out what you will do to get an answer for the person.

    8. meagain*

      I don’t have a problem with speaking on the phone, but I actually try to schedule most of my calls which I like. Mostly because I’m rarely at a desk and while I can set my work number to ring through to my cell phone, it’s annoying to answer calls when I’m not at a desk and don’t have a computer in front of me to look up anything I need. I usually respond to people via email when I can and ask if they would like to schedule a time to speak further. Or if I leave a voice mail, I tell them to send a request to my work email. That way I can respond via email and ask if they want to set up a time to speak. This makes sense for my job because most of the time they are requesting information that I can just send attach that document in an email and there is no need to speak.

      But I would say if you do have anxiety about, just keep answering the phone and it will keep easier. Do you have privacy to speak on the phone. I actually do get really self conscious when I have to answer or make calls when other people are present and overhearing.

  32. JMR*

    I’m a semi-experienced manager and am having some difficulties with a new report. Her communication skills are so poor it is causing me constant stress. It takes me far longer than it should to figure out what she’s talking about, and she often leaves out important pieces of information that would have changed the direction of the conversation. She’ll be discussing one email thread and then switch to talking about another email thread, and she’ll reference X, which did not happen on the first email thread, which is what I THINK we’re still talking about, and it will take me a bunch of time to figure out that we’re now talking about another topic altogether. In other cases, she fails to provide important context – for example, she talked about a patient death in one of our clinical trials, which is a HUGE deal if it is related to the drug we are testing in the clinical trial, but after talking with other people, I figured out it was related to COVID pneumonia. That’s quite sad, but it’s not a work crisis for me. A conversation with her that should take 30 seconds takes 15 minutes because I have to do all this detective work, and in addition to being a huge waste of time, it stresses me the fuck out. I know this term might not be right for a work context, but it feels like emotional labor. Every conversation leaves me confused and exhausted.

    The thing is, she’s not screwing up her work, except in so far as part of her job is to communicate things to me effectively. I can’t tell if it’s just not the right fit, or if this is something I can ask her to work on. How do you ever know the difference? And how do you coach someone on something like this anyway? I have tried explaining some of these examples to her and asking for what I need but she clearly doesn’t get it. My manager is hesitant to ask her to move on because she hasn’t done anything “actionable,” by which I guess he means screw up an important document, etc. It certainly would be easier if she did!

    Help?

    1. Jaybee*

      Are these just her verbal communication skills? Is she more clear and concise in writing?

      I am not a manager but I have a lot of experience ‘managing up’ in specialist roles where I’ve had to get information from sales people who do not want to give me that information (or do not want to admit they never collected that information in their rush to make a sale). Many of them have communication ‘quirks’ and my approach has usually been to work out how they communicate best and stick to that. It might feel strange to go to primarily email with a direct report if you’re usually a verbal communicator, but if she’s more clear in writing, it might be worth consideration.

    2. Echo*

      Your manager is wrong! Are you giving your report in-the-moment feedback? You can literally interrupt her and say “I’m sorry to interrupt, but can we take this step by step starting with [first email chain]”?

      1. tessa*

        Yep.

        I have a co-worker who does this – writes according to a stream of consciousness that doesn’t make sense even to our boss – and I “make” her take responsibility for it by asking for clarity (sentence by sentence if I must).

        Meanwhile, we have a pretty “salty” co-worker who will flat out state “Fedelia, I don’t know what you mean,” which makes me smile inwardly every time, because I’d be more sympathetic to Fedelia if she wasn’t such a mean-spirited and petty bee atch. Different conversation, though.

    3. calonkat*

      Let me restate this sentence for you:
      “part of her job is to communicate things to me effectively [which she is doing very poorly] however she’s not screwing up [the rest of] her work”

      So she is doing very poorly at a part of her job and does not seem to understand the issue.

      Maybe having a sort of outline for conversations?
      Like write down the specific thing you are talking about and if she starts discussing something off the topic at hand you can document it and bring her back to topic in the moment and mention this is a problem.
      That would also give you written documentation of the issue if needed to put her on a PIP.

    4. Jean Pargetter Hardcastle*

      It might help to have an honest conversation where you start with “this is what I need but am not getting” but also include “why do you think that might be?” and come up with a game plan together. It could be that she’s not getting what she needs from you, either, because of her communication style.

    5. retired2*

      I am a non linear thinker and speaker. This is not a defect but the way many people in the world are. From my reading, it may be more prevalent in other counties. Can you ask her to try to tell you things in a linear way? An outline? Topic 1, sub thoughts, topic 2, sub topics, etc? It’s a good skill for her to learn and understanding different ways of communicating is a growth opportunity.

      1. Hlao-roo*

        I know a few “think out loud” types, and (not a coworker) the one I appreciate the most says “I’m going to think out loud for a few moments and my brain will go all over the place” first. So I know to wait until he’s done thinking/speaking to get back to the conversation.

        If it’s a presentation/meeting where the report should be prepared beforehand, I like retired2’s suggestions on coaching her to relay information in a more linear way. When you’re having more off-the-cuff conversations with her, maybe you can ask her to tell you when she’s thinking out loud vs when she wants your input?

    6. Abated*

      I’m not a manager, but I’m trying to look at this from my manager’s perspective. If I were your employee in the situation, I can imagine my manager having a catch-up meeting with me and bringing this up. I think he would tell me the things he thinks I’m excelling at but there is an area that he’d like me to work on, which is my communication skills. You could give the specific examples where there was confusion, as you did here, and ask your employee to try to have a summary in mind before she brings these issues to you. Maybe she could jot down a bullet list of the critical points of the issue she wants to talk about before she comes to you, that way you both know you’re on the same page all the way through the conversation. Tell her that if she can work on that, your conversations will be easier for both of you going forward. If you have a positive tone and say hey I think we can improve this area rather than it being a critical tone of here’s what you’re doing wrong, you should come across well and she will hopefully get the point and work on it without taking it personally. I hope that helps.

      1. Abated*

        Well, after re-reading your original post, maybe you do need to frame it as a more important conversation that you really need her to improve in this area because it’s an important part of her job. Telling her you want her to come in with a bullet list or an outline of some sort as others here has suggested is probably the place to start. If she can’t take this feedback well or feels like it’s personal, then you really have an issue and probably need to convince your manager that she needs to move along.

    7. Not So NewReader*

      I had a cohort like this.
      “Where is X located?”
      And some how this involved talking about his dog and his tooth extraction 3 years ago.
      Once you got an answer it was wrong, each time, every time.

      You may have to let her go. But you can try telling her that she needs to answer the exact question asked, not the question she THINKS was asked. And you can go instance by instance of telling her what she needs to inform you of that is important. Tell her point blank that situations A, B and C need to be reported to you and failure to do so is a failure to do her job adequately. I dunno if you have informed her that failure to do so puts her job at risk.

      I am “lucky”?, I saw early on that I needed to ask when and what to report to a boss. Most of my bosses epically failed at telling me when I needed to loop them in. So I frequently asked questions such as “Do I report ABCs to you, or do I just handle that?” You may gain ground (but I doubt it) by giving her several examples of things she needs to tell you about. Since you have had one conversation, your second conversation about this same problem can be more stern.

      Honestly, employees like this are scary. They can sink a biz or organization. “What do you mean I have to tell you the back room is on fire?” Go. Just leave and don’t come back.
      Remember you are not there to do remedial coaching, that is not your job. One good rule of thumb I used was to ask myself, “What would happen if I had to work on this level with everyone here?” And another good question to ask, “How do most of her peers handle a similar example?”
      This last question can show me gaps in my leadership if I see everyone having a poor or incorrect response to a given thing. I need to coach everyone on that specific thing.

      A huge part of any job is getting along with cohorts and communicating with cohorts. In my example up top here, we all ended up avoiding this person. I can honestly say that conversations with this person were Not Logical. I could talk to this person for 45 minutes and learn NOTHING. She is not communicating effectively, therefore she is not doing her job, and this needs to change or she cannot stay, period. Do not make excuses or minimize her behavior.

    8. BBB the cabinet builder*

      Address it in the moment, the second you realize she’s changed tracks. As in, “We were talking about email chain one. When did you change the subject to email chain two?”

      This is a common problem with ADHDers and if that’s her problem, addressing it in the moment will get her back on track. Addressing in the moment will help *you*, no matter what. You won’t be lost and won’t be frustrated. Please don’t suffer in silence. Speaking kindly but with definition can resolve this issue.

  33. LadyByTheLake*

    Anyone else having trouble engaging with work? I am a freelancer who had to take some time off at the end of the year for some medical issues, and then December is always slow — I need to start getting out there and getting some more work in. But. I. Don’t. Want. To.
    Right now I am waiting to see if a colleague who has a referral will set up a call with a potential new client –the work sounds interesting and it would be a nice bit of money coming it, but I’m desperately hoping it will fall through. No — I’m not doing anything meaningful with my time off, and yes — I need the money, although not immediately — I’m getting close to retirement and I need just a bit more years of work before no more income is realistic. Any tips to jumpstart some enthusiasm (or even grudging acceptance) of the need to work?

    1. So long and thanks for all the fish*

      Yes. I have no motivation to do next to anything. Depending on what your work is, one thing I’ve found helpful is making a deal with yourself to just get started- open the document and start reading, and putting on motivational music, whatever that is for you. Usually the music helps keep me in the zone once I’ve started. The other thing is to make sure you’re as physically comfortable as possible- I find it impossible to focus when I’m too cold, for example. Good luck getting your groove back!

      1. Spacedog*

        I’m right there. I’m a creative, but not in a creative team. I started a new job last year which ended up being nothing like the big promises I was made coming in. I worked very hard despite my disappointment, but have had nothing but criticism and disparaging remarks since I started; the other teammates I liked have left this team and I am basically the lone creative, an island in a job I regret taking. I feel zero motivation at this point and I struggle with it every day.

        I feel like part of my inertia is that I’m depressed about my job, but also COVID is depressing which is adding to this immobile inertia. Oddly, the less I have to do, the less motivated I feel, and knowing they hate everything I do or say has left me both very quiet in meetings and also unmotivated to have my typical initiative.

    2. J.B.*

      I was so burned out in December. I needed the break. For me getting back into work was easier when I was busy, a slow time is almost worse.

      1. LadyByTheLake*

        That’s what I’m finding — part of the issue is that I have little (or nothing) to do. I need to go out and hustle up more work. I resent having to check my email/voicemail as if I’m working full time just for the couple of items that trickle in and I seriously have no energy to proactively look for more. When I actually do have something to do, I can usually take a deep breath and do it and once I do, it is fine (or even enjoyable), but it is how sporadic it is — I just want to lay on the couch and read my book and not have to check email!

        1. Sloanicota*

          Yeah, this is me (I freelance) and it has made me realize I’m not right for this field. I would have to be way more self motivated than I am to be successful in what I do. I actually prefer working PT at something more rote where I can just get my paycheck and check out. Hope you find a different solution!!

        2. fueled by coffee*

          Would it help to set specific “work hours” during slow periods like this? It sounds like you’re periodically checking email throughout the day, or working sporadically on projects, and that might be contributing even more to burnout (I can empathize with that feeling of having a whole day open to work on some small task, and then realizing at 4pm that it’s getting dark out and you’ve procrastinated your way through the day and are only partway through the task, so it goes back onto tomorrow’s to-do list, while you feel guilty about not being productive, wash-rinse-repeat with bonus pandemic doom ~vibes~).

          What’s helped me has been deciding to schedule work for specific hours: for example, check my email at 9am, noon, and 4:30pm, but otherwise I don’t bother looking at it. Work on task X from 10-11:00, and task Y from 1-2. Then outside of those hours I don’t let myself feel guilty about reading books/watching Netflix/etc. And *during* those hours, work feels more like, “this is unpleasant, but if I power through for an hour I can go back to Netflix,” and less “Oh my God why am I expected to do spreadsheets in the middle of a pandemic.”

          1. LadyByTheLake*

            Maybe something like this. I’m actually pretty good at actually doing what has to be done if there is work to do — I usually knock it out in the morning or right when it comes in. It is the sensation of having to be “available” the rest of the day that gets me. Maybe if I just had a “check email every three hours” schedule I wouldn’t feel so “on call” the rest of the time.

  34. Tara*

    How do you have a conversation with your boss about your compensation, when you know you’re being underpaid? I don’t want to leave, but I want my compensation to match up to the market and within the company.

    1. irene adler*

      Bring data to the table. Also, a list of your accomplishments. Show them your value to the company.

      1. Tara*

        Thanks – I always really like your comments! I understand that aspect of it, and I have the data to do both. But I don’t really know how to phrase the conversation. I don’t want it to seem like I want to leave, but I don’t know if saying “this has come to my attention and I now want to give you the opportunity to rectify” seems like I’m looking to, or doesn’t have enough umph behind it to be effective.

        1. Colette*

          “It’s come to my attention that I’m underpaid for the work I do. I’ve done some research, and people with my skills and responsibility typically make $X. I’d like a raise to bring my salary in line with those doing the same work elsewhere.”

          2. Chilipepper Attitude*

            There was a brilliant comment from someone about gender and salary. I cannot find it now but it was along the lines of, I would not want us accused of gender bias.

                1. Colette*

                  There may be circumstances where it’s appropriate, but there’s no indication that there’s a gender component to this, nor that anyone is being paid less because of their gender.

        2. irene adler*

          Aw, thanks for your kind words. I like the direct approach by Colette. No hint of “I’m going elsewhere. ” If the boss demurs, ask if boss is interested in doing what fair and right by the employees.

          Also, if reviews/annual raises are coming up, get the conversation started before this occurs. You want your data included in the salary evaluation. There’s always those bosses who will wimp out with, “if I’d only known before the salary evaluations were made. Then I could have made appropriate changes. Now it’s too late.”
          (I’ve seen that happen.)

          1. Lauren*

            “If the boss demurs, ask if boss is interested in doing what fair and right by the employees.”

            That sounds like going nuclear, IMO, as it would be calling the boss’ ethics into question, when they may not have the budget or discretion to do what is fair and right, even if they want to. Anecedotally, I was once mired in an HR complaint for workplace violence against me, and my boss hadn’t fully realized how serious it was, so when I told him, “I will not work for a company that supports workplace violence,” he took it as me saying that HE supported workplace violence, and our relationship has never been the same. I don’t regret what I said, and I definitely hit a nerve, but there was a way to reach the same end result without dropping that bomb. I really would not recommend questioning the boss’ principles and ethics.

        3. Marillenbaum*

          I think it doesn’t give the impression you are looking to leave; rather, that you trust based on your existing work history, relationship, track record for valuing your contributions that they will be willing to give you a fair hearing and advocate for you accordingly.

  35. So long and thanks for all the fish*

    I have an interview next week for which I was asked to prepare a short presentation on why I would be a good fit for the role. I’m in a science field where presentations at interviews aren’t unusual, but usually it’s on a past project, rather than on myself. I think this is different because it’s a role reviewing science, rather than performing it(?). Has anyone else come across this, and if so, how did you handle it? If you include that requirement as part of your hiring process, what are you looking for?

    1. OtterB*

      Guessing, since my work is tangential to this but not directly related, but my guess would be that (1) the role will require presenting your review findings, so they want to check your presentation skills, and/or (2) they want to check that you understand that the role is different from performing science and that you’re willing and able to make the transition.

    2. Bex SF*

      If I was on this hiring panel, I would be looking for a few things:
      -How do you structure the presentation. Does it make sense? Is there a clear through line
      – How do you share key information? Is it concise, relevant, and well articulated?
      – What are the actual points you bring up for why you’d be a good fit? Given what I know of your background, do they make sense, or would I have recommended other points?
      – How and where do you use crisp data/examples to make your points?

  36. Just a Manager*

    I’m a team manager. I have a fellow manager that is always in my business. For example, we had a meeting with our grand boss and the fellow manager started talking about an area I manage and how we might need to hire another person. I give him his space, even though I’ve done the role in the past. I could easily jump in with a whole bunch of “good ideas.” He’s always injecting in meetings with our boss and grand boss about things my team should do. It seems to me that he sees everything as one big team, instead of areas of responsibility.

    Am I too sensitive? Is there a comeback or something I can do to reduce this without looking childish?

    1. Policy Wonk*

      Fellow manager may be trying to position himself for the next level, by showing he is knowledgeable about broader issues. Or he likes your issues better and is trying to take them over. If he is talking about things in your area of responsibility, do not give him a “good idea” but when he has said his piece then add on your own take. Note that it is your area, provide context. For example when he says you need to hire another person, agree that yes, I do need another person in my area, as I have mentioned before, and here is the role I envision for the additional person.

      You are not being too sensitive. He may not be up to something, may just like to talk in meetings, but speak up for yourself and your work!

    2. Mockingjay*

      You need to shut him down. In a calm and firm voice, interrupt: “Thanks, Fergus, but my area is adequately staffed. We’re meeting all our metrics and then some. I appreciate your input though.”

      Don’t let him take ownership of your job and especially not with your team. You might want to check in with your team – do they have to deal with Fergus and his team? There might be friction or confusion about assignments, reviews, and reporting. Importantly: don’t be afraid to address this directly with Fergus. “Fergus, just to be clear, this area is my responsibility to execute. If you have a concern that impacts your work or team, please bring it to me [first].”

      I wouldn’t propose ideas just because Fergus does. If you do propose something, it will be a thought-out plan: “here’s a need, here’s how we could address it; I’ve looked at resources (budget, staff) and my team can implement this easily before the end of the year.”

      1. Just a Manager*

        Thank you for your comment. I like your technique for shutting him down. I’ll work on this.

  37. Anon Today*

    I’ve recently realized that one of my employees doesn’t have the customer service skills I thought they had. They do an okay to good job mostly, but their tendency to be blunt and very black and white about the rules sometimes makes fraught situations worse. In addition they take things personally like when a client is rude or disrespectful and then seem to take that as an excuse to be short with the person.

    I’ve had to work at this myself over the years, but I’m having a hard time explaining. Our organization is trying to promote a lot of professional development these days and I was thinking maybe something in deescalation on would be great for her as that’s her biggest hurdle. Does anyone have any recommendations? Or thoughts about what I can say to her?

    1. Kathenus*

      Your past experience can be a real help here. I’m dealing with something similar, I have an employee who has an issue with tone of voice, bluntness, etc.. It comes from a positive intent, but it is harming their work relationships and will harm their career progress if not improved. They’ve been coached on it and have improved but slip back into old habits at times. I’ve dealt with the very same thing and had a supervisor years ago who was amazing at helping me improve – starting it with the approach that ‘you’re amazing and can do anything you want but this will hold you back’ – followed by communication coaching. I’ve never forgotten it and will be having a similar talk with this employee starting from the premise that they have amazing skills and potential but that this will hold them back, that I’ve been there, and that I want to help them improve so they can succeed in their long-term career goals. Coming at it from a place of wanting to help them improve and using a personal experience example can be a great way to handle it versus coming at it from just a negative/constructive feedback approach.

    2. Reba*

      I don’t know about trainings, but for raising the issue, I think you can say exactly what you wrote here! For coaching, bring up a couple of illustrative examples of times when rigidity or coldness made things harder, and some ideas of things they could have said instead. If there are times they have handled a customer interaction well, mention it too. Maybe there are specific phrases or techniques that other employees use with rude clients? I think when employees are going to encounter that regularly, it’s important to equip them with things they *can* say and do to deal with a difficult client.

      Tell her that she needs to compartmentalize, she needs a “work persona” that is unfailingly professional, even if inside she is burning up like the little red guy in “Inside Out.”
      You’ve dealt with it yourself, so you know that it is a learning process, but let her know this is part of her performance and you will need her to improve. She may not react well (I know I’ve been prickly when I felt like I’m being told I talk wrong or I have to “fake it”!) but make it clear it’s a skill, not a personality change that you’re looking for.

    3. Never Nicky*

      Your employee isn’t a lost cause but some specialist skills training could be really helpful. I’m from the UK so no recs but this is my experience:

      In one of my first jobs, I was working on a role which was essentially a service role to assist fellow employees in a large organisation. For various reasons, this wasn’t a great time for me and it showed in my attitude. My grand boss signed me up to a couple of communication skills courses – I think the subtitle was “be assertive not aggressive” and it was a game changer. I changed noticeably and to this day, people say I’m direct and straightforward AND collaborative, flexible and friendly.

    4. Bernice Clifton*

      I used to have a somewhat similar issue like your employee.

      Part of it was my at the time undiagnosed anxiety that caused me to take rude remarks personally, but part of it was not having a clear sense of when I was allowed to “bend the rules” as a gatekeeper without getting in trouble.

    5. Hlao-roo*

      In addition to de-escalation trainings, can you role-play some interactions with them? Talk about the issues with bluntness and black-and-white thinking first (why they are counterproductive, strategies they can use instead). During the role-playing you can point out bluntness and rigidity when they crop up. After the role-playing you can discuss what went well/what didn’t go well.

  38. Beancat*

    Last month I spoke with my boss (the owner) about accommodations for my anxiety, such as letting me work in a space separate from the receptionist (I’m not reception but there is no room for me anywhere else). We don’t have the space to reliably do that, but to my surprise they suggested I could work from home half a day, twice a week. Most days require in person work, but there are many aspects I can do and have done in the past at this job, occasionally working from home when illness or emergencies came up. I eagerly agreed and said I’d of course wait until our new employee was trained. I started drafting an email to get it all down on paper but got caught up for a few days with the holidays and didn’t get to finish.

    My boss came back three days later and said after they’d thought about it, they actually don’t want to do that. They said that my presence is needed on site – I’m pretty sure they just don’t trust employees when either they or I aren’t physically there. There are control issues in other aspects of our work as well.

    I’m less upset about having my accommodation revoked (though I’m pretty upset about that) than I am that they suggested it, approved it, and then immediately backpedaled. As far as I understood, them suggesting it meant that they’d thought about it and okayed it. We have a potential acquisition looming and my hope was to have my accommodations grandfathered in.

    My husband thinks I should see what the acquiring company offers and I agree, but it’s also very difficult to keep coming in and caring when the medical accommodations that my boss suggested were instantly revoked without even a trial run of them.

    I also get the sense my even asking for accommodations has changed our working relationship and I’m concerned that they no longer think I’m capable, even though I’m continuing to perform as I always have. I feel ashamed and like I’m being punished for even asking. They were reasonable when I had surgery and was out for an extended period of time, so I thought they’d be just as reasonable about this. I know my boss has bigger things to think about, but I’m incredibly frustrated and don’t know how to address it – or if it’s better for me to cut my losses and look elsewhere.

    Thank you in advance for reading – I’ve been stewing on this for a few weeks now.

    1. BayCay*

      I get your frustration. Ideally, they would have simply told you they might have a potential solution, told you they would get back to you, and then offered what they could, in reality, do. It wasn’t right of them to suggest you could work from home and then backpedal on it days after.

      I would focus on a game plan for addressing this with whoever will be your best contact with the incoming company. I wouldn’t phrase it like, “They said I could do this and then changed their mind,” but instead share your situation and say you were in the process of finding a solution. You could even mention that working from home was discussed at one point. Then ask what they are willing to do to meet your medical needs.

      That said, you’ll have to weigh how all this might impact your relationship with your boss going forward, assuming they aren’t leaving. It sounds like your boss might not be the most ethical person around, and even if the new company accommodates you, your boss might feel like you went over her head.

      1. Beancat*

        I don’t believe my boss will be staying on after the acquisition (retiring), so hopefully your last bit won’t be applicable. I’ve been trying to find out when I can speak with the acquiring company about what things will look like – I love your language of “I was in the process of finding a solution”! Presenting it as what they’re going to do to accommodate my medical needs makes perfect sense, very matter of fact like “of course you’re going to do this because reasonable people would do this”.

    2. WellRed*

      Have you followed up with your boss on this? Us there another accommodation that you can suggest? What us the timeline for the acquisition and subsequent transition?

      1. Beancat*

        With our space as limited as it is and how we use it for business (trying to keep a bit of anonymity), there isn’t really another good option unfortunately. I’ve been racking my brain for other possibilities but haven’t come up with any just yet.

    3. mreasy*

      The company is required to make reasonable accommodations if you have a diagnosis of GAD or similar ADA-covered condition. Do you have HR? It might be worth reaching out to let them know what has happened – or perhaps give your manager another chance by saying given it’s an ADA-covered condition, should we work with HR to determine what can be done?

      1. Beancat*

        We’re so small that I’m not sure it applies – without giving too much identifying information we’re fewer than ten people, I functionally act as HR, and I’m one step below my boss (who considers the accommodation a hardship). If they’re not willing to accommodate me, I’m not sure where else I can take it.

  39. Binky*

    Has anyone ever dealt with a mistake spiral? I’m very stressed (new-job stress and covid stress and just being an anxious person in general). I have started to make more mistakes in my work. Most of them have been nonsubstantive, but still not great. Unfortunately, I’m now so anxious about making mistakes that I’m making more of them. Basically when I’m this stressed my brain doesn’t work as well, and I miss stuff. How can I pull myself out of this?

    It doesn’t help that my boss only gives negative feedback (lots of stuff gets no comment, and goes out with minimal changes, so I’m pretty sure she doesn’t hate all my work), so I’m constantly worried that she’s mad at me.

    Any advice?

    1. Hopeful Ex-Librarian*

      Oh I feel this so hard. <3

      I don't know if this is something that would work for you and your job, but when I've made mistakes, I've tried to find a way to make it into a note or checklist or setting alarms/reminders going forward.

      Like, at the library I work at, when I close, I have to do specific stuff. One night, I forgot to check that the bathrooms were clear (thankfully it had been a really quiet night). As a result, I now set an alarm when I work the night shift and I've made a checklist of what all has to get done for closing.

      I also tell myself, just in general when I make mistakes, that nobody died.

    2. BayCay*

      I also have anxiety and have been in a mistake spiral. I would try your best to show yourself kindness and if you find yourself in the middle of a work-related panic moment, try to stop what you’re doing and slow down, which might prevent more mistakes from happening.

      But even more importantly, I’d address your feelings that you only get negative feedback from your boss. Unfortunately, lots of managers forget to toot the horn when things are going great and only sound the alarm when something is wrong. Personally, I don’t get these folks but I’ve worked for several. If your boss isn’t lousy otherwise, I’d think about their personality and see if maybe it’s just their personality. But if they also do things like demean you, yell, never check in on you or have unreasonable expectations for your work, you might just have a sucky boss.

    3. justabot*

      My former football playing husband always says, “Gotta make like a DB (defense back) who made a bad play and shake it off!” “Otherwise one bad play leads to the next one and the next one. That play is over. There is absolutely nothing you can do about it now. Eyes focused forward. Get ready for the next snap.” (Yes he really talks like that.) But as silly as it sounds, thinking of it like an athlete, does help me. That play is over, shake it off, get ready for the next play.

  40. Hopeful Ex-Librarian*

    HI! I’m one of (many) librarians who are looking at other, non-library options. I know my skills translate, I’m just having trouble finding jobs that fit.

    For context, I’d be most interested in remote or hybrid jobs (I am looking for jobs in and around Chicago). I like helping people, but I don’t like that libraries are the default for everything society doesn’t want to fix (I am not a social worker – I don’t have the training and I don’t want to be one), and I don’t like that admin has thrown us to the wolves during this pandemic and the front desk people are expected to bear the brunt of everyone (if I have to tell one more person that the mask has to go over the nose…..).

    I have experience doing:
    -basic graphic design for promotion of programs (this did involve specific deadlines) and tools/databases and items in the library collection. I’ve been using canva because the library I work at has a pro subscription and my Mac (which I used when we were briefly remote) doesn’t let me get publisher on it (I have examples of this)
    -running a monthly book club (doubling members….. from 1 person to 2)
    -cataloging audiovisual materials (I don’t create records from scratch)
    -ordering materials for library collection (most experience is in non-fiction books)
    -collection development for said non-fiction sections
    -teaching computer classes based on a specific thing (ie: Google Docs), I’ve also developed and taught classes based on a specific thing as well as previously-developed tech classes (I have examples of this too)
    -using things like teams, Trello, Mac and windows desktops, iPhones, kindles
    -I also love: deadlines/due dates, color-coding things (my phone apps are all color-coded into folders), and to-do lists

    I don’t have management experience (other than helping to train new coworkers when asked) and I don’t want to be a manager.

    Can anyone suggest jobs to look for and where to look for them? Since I am interested in remote options, I did sign up for FlexJobs! Or even just tell me that my skills do actually translate like I think they will and everything isn’t hopeless?

    Thanks and I hope y’all are staying safe and healthy. :)

    1. irene adler*

      Ever looked into Quality Assurance (QA)?
      ASQ.org
      There are a lot of QA positions that involve document control: keeping track of documents -electronically and/or paper, assuring most recent version is used, teaching folks how to use the document management system, and keeping up with document changes -complete with lots of deadlines related to that. No, you don’t necessarily have to be the one to write the documents. Although you might be asked to proofread or format. Some small companies might make use of your graphic design skills too-layout of documents, logos, etc.

      1. Hopeful Ex-Librarian*

        :eyes emoji: I have not, but that’s something I will definitely look into. Thank you!! :D

      2. Rosie*

        I laughed because I just sent our quality person three SOPs asking her to format and proof them so I could circulate for comments. But I agree it sounds like a good fit!

        1. Hopeful Ex-Librarian*

          ooo i love proofreading things too! i used to look over our program newsletter before it went to print (me and several others) and it was a lot of fun!

          1. irene adler*

            You’d be so good in Document Control for any company that is highly regulated – pharmaceuticals, Medical device, aerospace, etc. ! Don’t let the high-tech talk scare you; these folks have a great need for people who can organize, prioritize, proofread, and generally make sure the dept is meeting deadlines and complying with any regulatory requirements (which their regulatory dept will instruct you on what is needed in that respect).

            1. Hopeful Ex-Librarian*

              oh thank god, i have immense respect for scientests and science and all that but i am….. not smart enough to have any kind of knowledge or degree or anything in it. but i can learn, so as long as it’s nothing too high-stakes, lemme at it.

              i also have experience in a restaurant as a dishwasher/busser, could i draw on that? only because sometimes i do have to prioritize and figure out what to do when, so the giant sheet trays might not get washed right away if we have a ton of stuff to run through the dishwasher first.

          2. JustaTech*

            If you love proofreading, making sure every single tiny thing matches and that everything is correctly cross-referenced then I bet you will *love* QA.

            Quality does stand apart within a company (they have to, it is their job to say “no”, though that’s usually more Quality Control (the people who run the tests) than QA (the people who make sure all the data is in order). And if you work for a regulated industry (pharma, aerospace) you’ll probably be involved (at least tangentially) in audits by whomever is your regulating agency.

            As someone who does *not* work in Quality but occasionally has to run my work through them I will say this: even though I will occasionally say “Damnit QA!” it’s not because I’m mad at them, it’s because they caught an error that I have to fix (and this always bugs me). And I always appreciate that they *do* catch stuff.

            1. Hopeful Ex-Librarian*

              omfg that sounds amazing??? making sure everything matches and cross-referenced!? :’) thank you so much for this, suddenly the job hunt doesn’t seem so daunting!

              1. Hare under the moon with a silver spoon*

                seconding all QA/QC/proofreading roles.
                They can be difficult to hire for as many believe they are detail orientated when in fact its to a different degree to have attention to detail for 30-40 hours a week which your librarian experience does demonstrate

                1. Hare under the moon with a silver spoon*

                  and you sound enthusiastic about this type of work which is a great sign!

                2. Hopeful Ex-Librarian*

                  :’)
                  I’ll for sure be looking into these types of positions, I’m suddenly really excited for this job search! hopefully there will be positions I can apply for in chicago (and hopefully this is more of a regular 9-5 field).

      3. doc control librarian*

        I am a Document Control Specialist, having discovered the field about 6 years ago after having no luck getting real use out of my MLIS degree. It definitely features a lot of crossover in skills!

      4. Fikly*

        Popping in to say a HUGE thanks for sharing this site – I’ve been really struggling to figure out where to find jobs that might be a good fit for both my skills and my needs, and this looks like a gold mine.

        1. Hopeful Ex-Librarian*

          right?? the job hunt has been really getting me down, but making this post has been a huge help. specifically, getting this site and why i might be a good fit for this field. i know it’s not like a 100%, sure thing, but even just having this as an option helps a lot.

    2. J.B.*

      I can tell you that our state university after budget freezes is desperate to hire people (probably more temps but some permanent). Grants management is HUGE and requires tip top organization with the financials learnable (and ahem fuzzy) after hire.

        1. Pam Adams*

          I’m agreeing with J.B. Higher ed has lots of positions that might fit- administrative, program analyst,direct student support- example, Admissions, Financial Aid….

    3. Incessant Owlbears*

      Technical project manager
      Documentation manager
      Clinical data manager
      Etc.
      Lots of things with “analyst” in the title could be a good fit: Business Analyst, Business Intelligence Analyst, Medical Records Analyst, so many more. “Analyst” can mean anything from an entry level grunt type job to a high level expert, so read the job descriptions.

      When I was searching, I used O Net Online to trawl through hundreds of job titles by all sorts of factors. I built myself a list of likely titles and set up alerts for those titles on the major job boards. Then I read through the job postings and pulled out the pieces that sounded like me, to use in honing my search and telling whether a given job sounded like it would be a good match.

      Best of luck!

      1. Hopeful Ex-Librarian*

        thank you, i’ll look into all of that! :D i appreciate specific titles to look for, but also that there IS hope and i’m not stuck in a library forever.

    4. NaoNao*

      It sounds like office manager or executive assistant might be a strong match (although that’s likely not remote!)—with the skills of organizing, cataloging, and general running things.

      Another to consider might be HR Coordinator. This is a kind of catch all entry level corporate job—generally you onboard people, ensure their paperwork is in order, set up and maintain employee engagement stuff, pull and use data (EEOC, audits), some interviewing, do exit interviews, stuff like that.

      1. Hopeful Ex-Librarian*

        thank you! as much as i’d prefer remote, if i can find something in chicago, that would be just as good. i ultimatly am looking for something that’s a little more 9-5, if i can’t find remote. :)

        1. used to work in a library*

          Remote positions for both of those roles definitely exist, but usually for remote-first companies. You might also look into one of those virtual personal assistant services if being a personal/executive assistant sounds like a job you’d want.

          Also, I made the switch from working in a library to doing what’s basically QA for a SaaS tech start up, but it took some serious searching because start ups sometimes list things under weird job titles. If you like the aspect of library work that involves teaching people stuff, in addition to all the detail work, then you might look at tech company positions involving customer/partner onboarding instead of the HR meaning of the term. SaaS companies always need people who can explain how their software works! SaaS companies are also of course a great place to look for unconventional QA positions like mine. I found my position on LinkedIn after many, many searches for various different possible positions.

          1. Hopeful Ex-Librarian*

            This is good to know, thank you so much for the response!

            Again, I’m so glad I have options. :’)

    5. ApologizesTooMuch*

      No advice, just wanted to say thank you for writing this! I could have written this exact post, minus the location details. Working in a public library through COVID has been HARD, and I too am ready for something new. For various personal reasons I won’t be able to move on until later this year, but I’m definitely going to look at QA positions when that happens. Fingers crossed that you find something that’s a good fit for you soon!

      1. Hopeful Ex-Librarian*

        Aw yay, I’m so glad my post was able to help someone else!!! :)

        It’s sad, for me, that I’m even thinking of leaving. But like you said, working at a public library during covid has been hard! One of the libraries I worked at really didn’t care about their employees (among other things, opened back up as soon as possible) which obviously didn’t help those of us on the frontlines.

        Anyway, I hope you’re able to find something soon, when you’re ready to look! :)

  41. Why did I do this to myself*

    I left a long-term job for somewhere new this week and I already want to quit and beg for my old job back (in all actuality, I wouldn’t have to beg, although a part of me would feel embarrassed).
    It feels so rash and irresponsible, but I know in my gut that this was a mistake. I thought more money would be worth the trade-offs – I traded 5 weeks PTO for 3. In the old job I had the option to work fully remote anytime, which is important in the age of quarantines. New job doesn’t have that ability, and is in fact very rigid with schedules with a punitive attendance policy, so quarantines eat into that 3 weeks.
    After avoiding Covid the entire pandemic, my family and I got Covid 3 days into my new job this week so I’m sitting at home, unpaid, with all this time to think and reflect on what I’ve given up. I’m trying not to assume the worst, but I also got a callback on a mammogram and am worrying given I lost my mom to breast cancer just a few years ago. So I’m also picturing the worst, and having to manage possible medical appointments within this rigid environment, and I just want to run away.
    The few days I was there I realized I hated the physical environment, observed that some some people were great but some were terrible (hostile and inappropriate with patients, and no one calling it out). I observed one big red flag related to ethics, and all in all just saw what I
    view as substandard patient care on multiple occasions. Oh, and it is a perfect breeding ground for Covid – crowded, no space for social distancing, and a full quarter of the people wearing masks around their chins all the time. Being vaxxed and currently positive, I’d guess I’ll have some more immunity omicron wise, but how long until the next variant comes around?
    I know the right thing to do is give it a chance and bring up my concerns, but honestly this doesn’t feel salvageable. And I’m immediately realizing how valuable my former flexible schedule and remote work option really was. Had anyone ever had such a strong negative reaction to a new job before, and if so what did you do? Any advice for me?

    1. Not A Manager*

      If the only reason you moved on was for the money, and now you don’t think it’s worth it, go back to the old job.

      1. Can Can Cannot*

        If you are three days in and the new job isn’t paying you, feel free to leave immediately. Call your old boss today, and see if you can go back to your old job tomorrow.

    3. The New Wanderer*

      I think you have valuable information now that you didn’t before, which really changes the equation. You say you know the right thing to do is give it a chance, but that sounds like the sunk cost fallacy to me. You describe a lousy, tense, and rigid environment that isn’t going to support what your needs are. If you’re able to go back to the old job with little hassle, strongly consider that.

    4. Picard*

      If you know, you know.

      Its not unheard of for people to come back to their prior workplace after a brief sojourn across the fence to supposedly greener grass.
      HOWEVER, think hard about why you left in the first place and if any of THAT has changed or can change before you go back. Maybe you just keep job searching…?

      1. Fran Fine*

        HOWEVER, think hard about why you left in the first place and if any of THAT has changed or can change before you go back.

        That part. I get having buyer’s remorse, but maybe it’s best to just ramp up a new job search now, jump ship, go somewhere new, and then leave this new place off the resume.

    5. All Het Up About It*

      Forget embarrassment. Your new job is not delivering on expectations. If you think you could go back to your old job and say it’s not what was expected/promised and you realized that the increased salary does not make up for the benefits, flexibility, insert other wonderful things about the old company, do it.

      I know the right thing to do is give it a chance and bring up my concerns
      NO! If you feel this strongly, making yourself miserable and risking your physical and financial health is not the “right thing.” Suck up that pride and talk to old job. And if that doesn’t work, start applying to new new jobs again. I’m sure it will feel daunting, but it sounds like this is a really bad fit for you.

    6. Hunnybee*

      I’m so sorry you are dealing with all of this and I wish you the best with your health concerns. Sending you good karma.

      Re: New Job Hate: I realized in my second week at my job that I was either misled or actually lied to about the work and team culture. In fact, one of the reasons I took this job was that the manager and recruiter talked up the culture, but the team I was placed on is renowned for being the most toxic in the company and has had iterations of teams quit because of the management.
      This job paid lower than other jobs I was interviewing at — AND, like you, I left a job with more PTO. I actually had unlimited PTO. I disliked my last boss but he liked me and I was doing a great job and recognized for my work — I didn’t have to leave, but I bought in to the promises that the new job offered.

      But months later, I’m miserable working for this company and team. I’ve stopped talking in meetings and I feel completely disengaged. I was in a meeting yesterday and out of the blue knew that I was going to start crying and left the call….and I realized that I’m deeply depressed.

      I know all of the career blogs mention that we should “give it time” and that it’s just new job jitters or whatever, but that’s pretty dismissive. Trust your gut. If you’re having a strong reaction to the new job and you have the opportunity to go back to the other one AND you have health issues, why not reach out and see if you can go back? They likely haven’t hired someone to replace you. And your health will be affected greatly if you end up in a stressful and highly depressing situation. You’d likely have more support emotionally from your old job than your new job as well if things end up getting tough, and that will mean a lot.

      1. Why did I do this to myself*

        Thank you so much – and thank you to everyone that commented something along these lines! I’ve been talking to people all day – my friends, therapist etc and they’ve all said this as well. It’s so helpful to hear – the advice I was reading did come directly from reading career blogs that popped up in a “what to do when you hate your new job google search”. I am certain it would just lead to misery so I’m just going to push through my guilt and do it.

    7. Girasol*

      I’d say get out. A rigid environment like that usually indicates a butt-in-seat management policy where managers don’t trust employees. If you learned to accommodate them – as it sounds like you’d have to – you’d end up at least unhappy and perhaps kinda bent. It’s way too easy to gather dysfunctional habits when you have to spend your days in a dysfunctional environment.

    8. Lauren*

      Yes. I wish I’d left after the first day and asked for my old job back. I was worried about admitting I was wrong, and I was worried about the new employer judging me for leaving after one day. After 4 years, burning out and getting warped by a terribly dysfunctional and toxic environment, I went back to my old company in a higher role that I likely would already have promoted out of, had I just stayed for those four years.

    9. Lizzie (with the deaf cat)*

      It is 100% okay to realise you have made an error! The next thing is to remediate it as best you can. The new workplace is not worth any more of your time- you have quickly identified all of the issues, and if you are not the new CEO then you won’t be changing that workplace culture at all.
      Get back to your old job, when anyone asks what happened you say “Yes, I made a mistake and am pleased to be able to return here, thanks for asking, has anything nice happened for you in the last few weeks?”
      Then increase your support/self care behaviours for a few months and congratulate yourself for stepping OUT of the quicksand asap, well done.
      You can do it. And you know your old job inside out, so you will relax into it very quickly.

    10. justabot*

      Have they hired for your old job yet? I actually do know someone who worked at a new job three days, hated it, and asked her old boss if she could come back. He was fine with it. Yeah I’m sure it was embarrassing for a few days and people like wait, I thought you left. But life quickly moves on, that awkwardness quickly is in the rear view mirror, and the truth is no one really cares. If that is an option, it’s worth asking.

      2. Hunnybee*

        …and it sounds embarrassing but I think that the reality is that nobody cares all that much after the first week. : )

    11. AnotherLibrarian*

      I certainly think if you hate the new job now, I doubt you’ll hate it less in three months. However, I would agree with others to really analyze why you left the old job. Whatever problems where there are lightly still there, so just make sure you are comfortable with those tradeoffs.

    12. Why did I do this to myself*

      I just wrote a long reply that somehow disappeared – or maybe it’s attached to some random post below haha. In short, thank you all for this input – it was really helpful to read and was exactly what I needed to hear. Im going to push through the embarrassment (and guilt, oh the guilt) and do what I know I need to do.

  42. Anonymous reader*

    Hello to the AAM community!

    I’ve worked in book publishing as a production editor for 10 years and I’m thinking about leaving. Has anyone left book publishing/production editorial and what kind of job did you go to? Did your skills transfer to other jobs?

    1. Put the Blame on Edamame*

      Not the same, I went from book retail, but ended up in digital marketing. The information management side of it is surprisingly similar.

  43. Confused*

    Have you ever been in a situation where you received a great job offer, better in almost all aspects than your current job, but your heart wasn’t in it? What decision did you take ultimately and how did it turn out for you? If you did end up taking the offer, what factors swayed your decision? I think I will turn down a 50% hike because I’m just not feeling it and I can’t see myself working there… I am feeling really foolish and would love to hear your stories if you’ve been through a similar situation!
    Happy weekend everyone!

    1. Picard*

      50%??!
      I can work through A LOT of “feelings” for a 50% pay hike. Why can’t you see yourself working there? You applied right? So what’s made you change your mind?

        1. Why did I do this to myself*

          I was just about to say this! I ignored my gut and told myself it was just a fear of the unknown, but really it was my intuition trying to tell me something.

      2. RussianInTexas*

        50% would get me to just over median household income in the US, I can take a LOT for it.

    2. Hlao-roo*

      I don’t have experience with this, but I do think some introspection would be useful in your case. No need to answer these questions here, I’m just typing them out to get you thinking and hopefully provide some clarity on why you’re feeling the way you’re feeling:

      – Why did you start job searching? (just to see what’s out there/more money/something bad about your current job/etc)
      – Why did you decide to apply to this particular job?
      – Is there anything in the job description/interviews/offer letter that gives you pause? You say “I’m just not feeling it” but is there anything more specific you can point to? (even if you don’t know WHY the wording of that bullet point/the question the interviewer asked/etc is making you feel this way)
      – How long have you been at your current job? Is “I can’t see myself working there” because you’ve been at your current job for 10/20/30 years?
      – Did you feel better/worse about this job at any point during the application process, or have you felt kind of ambivalent about it all along? Is this fear of change kicking in now that the offer is real?

      Best of luck whichever way you decide!

    3. Cookies for Breakfast*

      I turned down a job in an industry I have a strong interest in, which is pretty difficult to enter from outside. In that situation, “better in almost all aspects” meant the manager and team felt like people I’d enjoy working with, and the stage their project was at seemed to suit what I was looking to learn. However, the company handled salary negotiations in a bizarre way (think a whole two weeks of them saying “how much are you expecting, nope, that’s out of our budget, give us a lower number”…I was asking them to match my current salary, which was well in the range they stated on the job description I was given). It left a bad taste in my mouth, at a time that was already very stressful due to personal stuff and changes at my current job, so I went for the path of least resistance and stayed.

      4 months later, regret is creeping in. My decision to stay was also tied to some positive changes to my role I was promised by higher-ups, and the new boss that came in right after completely went back on them. I’m sure New Boss will improve my dysfunctional department over time, but it will take months for any changes to have an impact, probably at least a whole year. I’m not willing to stick around that long. So, job searching again, and pretty sure I’ve blown my best chance to enter that particular industry. I’m telling myself that the salary I make now is worth staying until something else comes up, but when you said you feel foolish…heck, I can so understand what that’s like.

      Happy weekend to you, and I wish you all the best with whatever you choose!

    4. Filosofickle*

      If I wasn’t feeling it and didn’t want the job, even 50% more money wouldn’t be a good enough reason for me to take it. (Assuming I was making ends meet on half). It’s not foolish if this is what feels right! Trust your instincts.

      1. tessa*

        This. No amount of money is worth dreading going to work every day. None. That dread will eat you alive.

  44. LadyB*

    Apply, apply, apply. It sounds like a great opportunity; better salary, better benefits, more vacation and more security.
    If you get the job, your boss would understand you leaving for any one of those points, let alone all of them.

  45. NewInterviewer*

    I have my first interview as an interviewer today! What are your best interview tips for interviewers?
    What questions would you ask an overqualified candidate? We are hiring an entry-level role, and this candidate has 15 years of experience. I could see a scenario where someone wants to take a step back or is making a career change, but I want to ask good questions to avoid someone who will be bored or frustrated in this role.

    1. Picard*

      I’ve had any number of “overqualified” candidates apply for our entry level role. I even interviewed some of them. Most were immediately obvious they they were looking for any port in a storm and would likely bounce out first chance they got. Some felt like they just wanted a steady job/paycheck and were not likely to innovate or initiate much change (slow roll to retirement). I ended up hiring one (for a slightly higher level position we had not posted yet) because she impressed me with her knowledge and experience and her willingness to do what it takes – hope I’m not wrong!

      1. Picard*

        oh and as to what questions I asked – I was very upfront –
        “It seems like this role would be a step down (or two) for you. Tell me why you think you’re the right fit for it?”

        and then depending on how they answered, I would pursue from there OR it would be immediately obvious to me that it wasnt going to work.

        1. Elizabeth West*

          Speaking as a candidate who sometimes fits this profile, I would just ask something like this.

    2. AnotherLibrarian*

      This depends on how your interviews are structured. We are required to ask all candidates the same questions. So, with other qualified canidates, I always very carefully listen to their answers to the “Why are you interested in this specific role?” question. I am looking for signs they understand the job and signs they get that the job is a major step down.

      If I get to ask whatever I want, here are a few I’ve asked:
      – I see you have X years of experience, and this is an entry level role, can you talk about why you’re interested in this position?
      – Can you give me an example of a time you disagreed with your manager about a decision they had made, how did you resolve the issue? What was the outcome?
      – Do you have any concerns about this position I can address?

      I am listening for signs they get what they have applied for and they will be easy to work with. 9 times out of ten, I know before the end of the interview if it is worth it to continue.

  46. Michelle*

    I’d like to get thoughts on something that just happened to my daughter. I thought it was pretty outrageous, but maybe it’s more common in retail work?
    A few days ago she was let go from her job. She’d received glowing reviews from her managers, and told she’d be made full-time with her pick of departments, but then her entire team was let go. The reason given was attendance, even though the only days she missed were when she had COVID. The part that surprised me, though, is that after letting her go they want her to keep working! First they said she could work the rest of her scheduled shift for that day, but that they would “understand if she couldn’t compose herself enough to do so.” But they still want her to come in for her scheduled shifts for the next two weeks, and if she doesn’t, she’ll be considered to have quit instead of being let go and be ineligible for re-hire! There is also a question as to whether she’ll be able to get unemployment if she doesn’t work the rest of her shifts. Is it just me, or is it crazy to expect someone to be willing to continue working after they have been let go, especially when it was done so poorly? (The GM actually smiled and wished her a good day while she was crying on the phone to her mother about having lost her job!)

    1. Kimmy Schmidt*

      Wait, they fired the entire group due to some people’s problems with attendance, or everyone had problems with attendance?

      Retail is a whole wacky ball of wax, but this still sounds pretty extreme and poorly handled.

      1. Michelle*

        They let all of their seasonal workers go on the same day, while pretending each one was being let go for individual reasons rather than because they were seasonal. They told my daughter that she was being let go for attendance specifically.

        1. Michelle*

          (They had previously promised that good performers would be made permanent, and promised my daughter specifically that she would be, but clearly had no intention of bringing anyone on permanently.)

        2. Wisteria*

          Being a seasonal worker changes things a bit. Essentially, they are not renewing her contract (I know she doesn’t have a contract, but that’s the analogous situation) at the end of the season, which is in two weeks. If she quits before the end of the season, then she quit rather than being non-renewed. That is completely reasonable for a temporary worker.

          Even for salaried jobs, it happens sometimes that a layoff is announced in advance rather than day of.

          1. Becky*

            Except they’re calling it “firing” probably in order to avoid these workers getting approved for unemployment.

            1. Can Can Cannot*

              The word fired doesn’t matter for unemployment, unless there is something serious behind it. In this case there was not, so she should be ok. That doesn’t mean the company won’t fight it, but she has a reasonable rebuttal.

    2. HigherEdAdminista*

      It’s not too out of pocket to expect someone to work to their layoff date. Some places do that and some places don’t. But they clearly are not good people or a good work environment to give her glowing reviews and make these big promises, and then lay her off anyway. Since they laid off the entire team, my guess is the real reason has nothing to do with attendance, but they likely take zero responsibility for anything they do. Many places do have the attitude that nothing is their fault.

      I can’t say whether or not she should work the rest of those shifts, but I can say that when I was a young adult, in college and working a retail job… these jobs definitely take advantage of people, making them think this will impact them greatly. I worked with coworkers who got fired for stealing and you know what… they went on to other jobs and careers. I myself quit a job with no notice and was hired back by a different branch of the same chain years later.

      Unless she wants a long term career with this specific company or she can’t risk not getting unemployment, or she has a very unstable work history, its very unlikely this will make a long term impact on her life and career. Many retail places are hiring right now, so its very possible she could have a better job before the two weeks are up.

      1. Michelle*

        She can’t risk unemployment. She has rent to pay and it’s very difficult to find a retail job where we live right now. Everybody says they are hiring, but nobody really is. It took my son months to find his current job, and most of the places he applied didn’t even bother to respond. So she’ll probably end up working these shifts, but I can’t imagine they’ll get good work out of people they treated so badly.

    3. Kathenus*

      Sounds to me like a layoff not a firing? If so working a certain amount of time isn’t totally unusual, sometimes it’s in return for something like severance, supporting unemployement (although you should be eligible if a layoff anyway), etc. And was attendance directed at her or the other employees or is it a public facing role/institution and attendance meant declining customers so needing less employees?

      1. Michelle*

        The attendance thing was an excuse. They laid off every single seasonal employee, while pretending each one had done something wrong to be fired over.

        1. Girasol*

          That’s just weird. Nobody who’s fired for being a bad worker has conditions on what they must do to be hired back because the company wouldn’t want them back. Sounds like the company might have led her on about a permanent job they couldn’t actually provide and this is their odd way to resolve that problem. Be sure she asks the managers who thought she was great to be references if needed.

    4. Jaybee*

      They let the entire team go – but said it was for attendance?

      You said this is in retail? Is this a specialized sort of team (I’m thinking the framers at an arts and crafts store, or the photographers or printers at a Staple’s)?

      It sounds to me like what is happening is they’ve actually decided to eliminate the position due to cost (i.e. this is a layoff) but they either said it was due to attendance to avoid the professional expectations that come with a layoff, or possibly your daughter misunderstood the attendance situation?

      If it is a layoff it’s much more normal to expect people to finish out a certain schedule, it also gives those who are being laid off time to job-hunt.

      1. Michelle*

        I should have been clearer since so many are asking this. They had hired a bunch of seasonal employees, promised that high performers would be made permanent, and then let them all go at the same time while pretending each one had done something wrong instead of admitting they didn’t intend to keep anyone.

    5. Sabine the Very Mean*

      Tell her to quit. This is bizarre all the way around. Generally quitting allows for re-hire but a firing would not. That alone is strange. There’s a real cruel streak here with the “can’t compose yourself” shit and with the GM smiling at her. It really seems more like a boyfriend treating his girlfriend badly until she breaks up with him.

      1. Michelle*

        One thing I forgot to mention is that my daughter had heard this was coming, and her manager specifically re-assured her that she specifically would not be let go. She could have been job-hunting all this time.

    6. Michelle*

      So, it seems like people are saying it’s not strange after a layoff to continue working. It must just be the field my husband works in (and I used to work in — I’m a SAHM now), where it was unheard of. It’s a technical field, where access is always cut off immediately, because anyone upset about being let go could do serious damage.

    7. Hunnybee*

      There are some states that have really clear guidelines around firing and last days and payments. It might be worth it to have an informational call with an employment attorney near you and see if you can discuss the matter on a contingency basis. I know these things vary from state to state, but it doesn’t sound *legal*.

      2. WellRed*

        What exactly doesn’t sound legal to you? She was seasonal, they are letting her go. They’re being shirty about it but they have no obligation to keep her on.

        1. Hunnybee*

          …laying someone off and making them continue to work doesn’t sound legal. Not the laying seasonal workers off thing, I totally get that. : ) Been there.

          1. AcademiaNut*

            They can’t force her to work. They can mark her ineligible for rehire. I don’t know exactly how the UI would work, but she might not get UI for the remaining two weeks but be eligible after (I’d contact the office to find out first). If you give two weeks notice, and they ask you to leave immediately, you can sometimes collect UI for those two weeks, for example.

    8. CatCat*

      Having people work until a later date though they’re told their job has been axed by that later date is a Thing That’s Done, but pretty much ALWAYS demoralizing. They won’t get her best work and nor should they.

    9. Suprisingly ADHD*

      Unfortunately, this isn’t a new thing. It’s pretty much word-for-word what happened to me in 2014 at the Big Red Circle. The same spiel about how the good workers would stay on after the holidays, then all the seasonals laid off mid-January “the shifts you have scheduled now will be your last ones.” My direct managers liked me and my work, but the higher-ups were in charge of hiring and layoffs. It’s just one more example of the crappy way retail treats their employees. (Oh the stories I could tell).

    10. Lauren*

      In retail, I’ve never heard of being made ineligible for rehire due to quitting. I managed a retail store in college and we employed people who had been rehired after quitting about five times; I rehired a kid 30 days after he quit. This sounds like a terrible management team who don’t know what they’re doing and may possibly be using scare tactics to make sure they have coverage for the next two weeks. Even if this company doesn’t rehire former employees who quit (…seriously, that doesn’t make any sense, because then they’re either not rehiring ANYONE or only rehiring people they’ve actively terminated?), does your daughter really want to go back and work for them again?

    11. AnotherLibrarian*

      This is certainly sleazy, but if you’re a seasonal employee I think it doesn’t matter how many promises you get from your manager- you should be job hunting. Trust, but cover your ass, is basically the rule of thumb when it comes to this sort of thing and I’ve seen it both in retail and in grant funded Uni positions. Expecting her to keep working is not surprising, because it they are treating it like a lay off or a non-contract renewal rather than a firing. Is the employer being cruddy? Oh heck yeah, and that sucks, but seasonal jobs are like that sadly. The fickle nature of promises from managers in retail is one of the worst lessons to have to learn and I am sorry your daughter is going through this.

    12. Worker bee*

      That’s common with seasonal employees, but they could have handled it better. I was a seasonal employee and was aware I’d be let go at some point, so it wasn’t a surprise when I was given an end date. It didn’t affect me getting unemployment benefits and I was asked to come back earlier than they typically rehired people, so I hadn’t found another job yet. They asked me to be a permanent full time employee about 6 months later.

      At my company, we have a limited number of positions where we could put people during our slow times and I could see her manager wanting to do that for her, but be overruled. I do think it’s odd that they gave everyone a different reason for being let go, though. Also, I’m not sure if new employees aren’t understanding the situation, but when I’ve overheard conversations, I let them know that it’s a seasonal position and they might be laid off, so they need to clarify with their manager so they are prepared for that.

      If I were her, I’d ask her manager or HR for any paperwork she needs to file unemployment, work her two weeks, and look for a job.

      And as an aside, I don’t think this as horrible as you are perceiving it to be, since they at least let her know an end date. Many years ago, I was working seasonal at a bookstore and was the only seasonal employee left. One of the mangers told me that they generally try to keep one seasonal employee as a permanent one and I was a moron and thought it was me, since everyone else had been laid off the month before. The schedule for the next two weeks was posted this particular day and I was too busy to look at it when I clocked in, so I looked it on my evening break and noticed I wasn’t on it.

      That apparently was my last day and the SM, who leaves early on that day, didn’t bother to tell me or any of the managers, so it was a surprise to all of us. The ASM called her to ask and was told that she doesn’t like confrontation and that she assumed I’d “figure it out” when I wasn’t on the schedule. It was a terrible way to find out I was out of a job.

  47. Stressed Out Temp*

    I would love some feedback on how to handle bowing out of a temp assignment early without burning bridges.

    For background, I’ve been working for the internal temp agency for a hospital system for around a year, mostly doing admin work for covid vaccination and testing. Most of these assignments are per diem and allocated through weekly shift bidding, and I would typically pick up 3 or 4 shifts a week because I also freelance in the arts and part-time works better for me.

    In early December, I was offered a long term (at least 2 or 3 months, possibly more) PCR testing center assignment by an on-site manager “Gemma” who I had a positive relationship with. After some uncertainty the assignment ended up being 5 days a week, which I was unhappy about, but I figured I would try it due to the other benefits (short days, easy commute, guaranteed shifts, low patient volume, chill environment where I already knew how things worked).

    Then a week later…omicron hit and everything changed. I now do 10+ hour shifts 5 days a week, process hundreds of patients each day, frequently get verbally abused said patients, deal with short staffing because all my coworkers are getting covid, you can imagine! It’s chaotic, exhausting, and I’m stressed to my limit. All I do when I go home is sleep, and I’ve halted my art freelance work because I have no energy to do it and frankly I’m not doing good in the mental health department.

    Problem: I just got an unexpected offer of an absolute dream long term art freelance project. To actually have time to do it, I’ll need to go down to 3 or 4 shifts a week with the staffing agency again, especially considering the stress omicron is causing.

    So…does anyone have any ideas on how I should word this to the staffing agency? Is it okay to lean on the freelance offer as the reason my schedule has to change (I’ve always gotten the advice that I should downplay my art freelance to my “day jobs”)? Should I mention anything about how I’ve been a really good sport about all the schedule changes, covering for call outs, so on regarding this assignment so maybe they’ll give me a little more grace? Up until this point I really enjoyed this job at the staffing agency, and valued the good relationships I was building with the staffing specialists and on-site managers like “Gemma”, and was hoping for a permanent job in the future, especially because frankly this pays way better than art ever will. So I’m absolutely terrified I’m about to blow up all that good will by dropping out of this assignment prematurely, but something really has to give here.

    1. Lady Glittersparkles*

      I would hope they’d be grateful that you aren’t leaving entirely given the working conditions, but I know employers don’t always think that way, especially under stress.
      As far as reasons go, I don’t think you have to justify yourself – if it doesn’t work for you, it doesn’t work for you. If you’d feel better explaining though, I think that your opportunity and the stressful nature of that assignment are both good reasons to end it!

  48. Gnome*

    I was wondering if this has happened to anyone else and if there’s any advice. I work in a technical area (think science/engineering/etc). I have never had a technical mentor… I’ve always had to figure stuff out for myself or learn from coworkers. I interviewed for a position in my company that would be a lateral, but on a team with a junior, mid, and senior person. I was to be the mid-level. I was most excited about the chance to have someone with more experience in an area help guide me (think changing from teapot engineer to spout specialist) in an area I’m not as strong in. Then after I transferred, the senior position got changed and it’s now management… So I’m the senior technical person (the senior person has a different background entirely).

    I still like the work ok, but several months in, I’m just having trouble getting motivated to dig into stuff that’s “learn and do” all the time.

    Any thoughts or suggestions on the situation?

    1. Arctic tern*

      I am in biotech R&D and it is quite normal for senior roles (like PhD-level or masters and 5+ years of experience). Especially in smaller companies. You may get more technical mentorship in large companies, but it depends on the role. In many cases, in senior technical role, ability to dig into stuff without guidance is the core part of the job. But again, it is hard to say without knowing your industry and your company’s structure.
      I work in a smallish company (50 employees, 10 of which are R&D department) and I am the only person with the expertise in a certain area and was specifically hired to do research and development in this area. So there are no one who can provide technical mentorship to me. One possibility is to use your personal network outside of the company or ask technical questions on professional forums, but I am not allowed to do that because my employer is very strict about confidentiality and non-disclosure. So google is my best friend, I’m learning on my own all the time.

  49. Stuckinthemiddle*

    I’m one of those people. I can keep a secret. Others confide in me. And the two currently confiding in me are my Boss and my Grand Boss, moaning constantly to me ABOUT EACH OTHER! These conversations (mostly by phone) are happening every day at this point for about 15/20 minutes each. Grand Boss has asked Boss to do something, Boss doesn’t have capacity and Grand Boss doesn’t understand, Boss needs to make time for the task. Endless variations on similar themes and both annoyed with each other.
    I’ve tried politely cutting conversations short. I’ve tried saying Boss/Grand Boss you need to sit down with each other and have a proper conversation. I’ve tried saying Grand Boss/Boss look this is making me really uncomfortable. No effect.
    It’s wildly inappropriate and it’s cutting into my own work! Any ideas?

    1. Kathenus*

      It may not be something you are comfortable with but maybe the time has come to for directly cut off the conversations versus doing it politely. I don’t mean being rude, but come up with a script along the lines of ‘I’m not comfortable hearing about your work relationship with Boss/Grand Boss’ – then redirect to work topic, repeat if they keep trying, go off to do another task etc – and rinse and repeat as needed. If it’s consistent, every time, they may finally stop. But I get how awkward the situation is – as professionally as you can (due to the power dynamic issues) return awkward to sender consistently, every time, and hopefully they’ll stop.

    2. Jaybee*

      It sounds like you’ve tried all the usual, polite approaches. It may be time to get firm. “I have to finish this [project/report/whatever], so I can’t really chat about [boss] right now.” “Like I said before, I’m not an appropriate audience for this. Was there anything related to my work we needed to discuss?” Etc.

      I hate to say it but if it continues it may be time to loop in HR if they still ‘don’t get it’. They’re putting you in a really impossible position here and given it’s your boss and grand-boss doing it, you don’t have anyone on your side.

      1. Stuckinthemiddle*

        Thanks to you both, yes I think it is time to be firmer. @Jaybee your response however made me realise just how disfunctional this situation is – we are part of the HR team and Grand Boss heads it up. Food for thought eh?

    3. Chilipepper Attitude*

      I used to say to my boss, this does not sound like something I need to know.
      It took a few times, but she sort of spluttered and finally stopped over-confiding in me.

  50. Ace in the Hole*

    Hi all! In a comment yesterday I mentioned I was a garbage worker, along with a list of gross stuff I’ve been splashed with at work (including but not limited to: dead rats, garbage juice, rotting clams, and other people’s blood). Apparently I piqued a few folk’s interest in the garbage career route. Marillenbaum asked if I could post a bit more about it on a Friday thread, so…. here we go!

    Please feel free to ask me questions, I will answer to the best of my ability.

    I work at a transfer station (aka “garbage dump”) in a rural part of California. Garbage/solid waste is quite variable depending on region because of regulatory requirements and local conditions. My facility takes garbage from both commercial trucks and residents dropping off their own trash. We also have dedicated programs for accepting and managing recyclables, compostable green waste, and hazardous wastes. Everything we accept is loaded onto semi trucks and shipped to other facilities for it’s final disposal, whatever that may be: green waste goes to a composting company, garbage to landfills, etc.

    Some stuff about me and the job:

    – I like my job. In my area, it pays pretty well… it’s a good stable career you can get into with zero education, even with a criminal record. We have stable schedules, some of the best benefits in the county, possibilities for advancement, and salary that’s enough to support a family (although not extravagently). However this depends a lot on where you are – in some places, garbage workers are poorly compensated for difficult, dangerous work.

    – I’ve worked in garbage for over a decade. In that time I’ve worked in general labor (mostly sorting recyclables, with a bit of operating heavy equipment, maintenance work, etc), hazardous waste collection and management, internal emergency response, and safety/environmental compliance.

    – Garbage is DANGEROUS! It’s the 5th most deadly job in the US, more dangerous than ironwork, firefighting, and power linemen. My facility has a great safety record, but it takes a lot of work to keep it that way.

    – It’s a very male-dominated industry… 99% of garbage workers in the US are men. I’m part of the 1%. What’s interesting is how this disparity exists in spite of many organizations actively trying to recruit and retain women. I’ve seen this at play in my own org, even during times when we had a woman in charge of the company. I have lots of thoughts about institutional sexism, but it’s too much to fit into one comment.

    – We see all kinds of things. If you can imagine it, someone’s thrown it away. If you can’t imagine it, someone probably still threw it away. I’ve seen everything from piles of drugs to a first-generation platelet counting machine. And yes, a lot of what gets thrown away is still in great condition… many areas are currently trying to create diversion programs to keep useful items out of landfills, but we’re not there yet.

    1. Kimmy Schmidt*

      This is fascinating. Thank you for sharing!

      What makes it so dangerous? Is it more about human possibility for error, proximity to machines, safety issues with the things that have been thrown away? Is there anything the general public can do to make it safer?

      1. Ace in the Hole*

        The biggest hazard of the job is human-machine or human-vehicle contact. Most fatalities and major injuries happen when a worker is hit by traffic on their collection route, or when a worker at a transfer station is hit by heavy equipment.

        Second biggest hazard is the materials that are thrown away. We’ve had to evacuate our facility several times due to chemical spills that left employees with burning eyes/lungs. Items like batteries, household chemicals, and propane cylinders can cause fires or explosions. Battery fires are particularly common. Another common dangerous item is medical sharps (used hypodermic needles) that are improperly disposed of – a needle will go right through most materials including puncture-resistant gloves.

        Other hazards include things like back/joint injuries from lifting, slips and falls, getting hit with flying debris, etc.

        As far as what the general public can do to make it safer:

        – Support increased regulation and enforcement of occupational safety! This is the biggest one. According to ALF-CIO, over the last 50 years OSHA has saved over 600,000 lives.

        – Ask your local waste services what materials should not go in the trash… then follow those rules even if it’s inconvenient. If you aren’t sure about a particular item, call before you dump. Practices are variable depending on what type of equipment/procedures are used in waste handling, so if you move to a new area don’t assume they can take the same materials.

        – Never put batteries in the trash. They can and do start fires. If your jurisdiction doesn’t have a dedicated battery recycling program, ask them to start one. In the meantime there are a number of mail-in services that will send you a pre-paid box to ship your batteries in.

        – Be courteous and cautious driving around garbage truck drivers! Give them space, stay alert, and don’t speed.

        – Let your local jurisdiction know you approve of rate increases if it means better conditions for workers. Usually a municipality will contract with a private company for trash service. There’s often pressure from constituents to keep rates low, which comes at the expense of safety

        1. the cat's ass*

          Thank you for sharing this, I really appreciate it, and will be tipping my garbage workers even more next holiday!

    2. English Rose*

      So glad you posted this update, it’s really interesting. You could write a book about your experiences I bet! I’m very pleased to hear you have stable schedules and great benefits. But wow, more dangerous than all those!
      Talking about what people throw away, here in the UK, I live in an apartment block where we have a communal garbage room. People leave all kinds of things to be thrown out. From the garbage room I have so far scored for free: a lovely rattan side table which just needed one loose piece gluing down, a solid oak picture frame with broken glass which I had re-glazed for a few pounds, and a small wooden bookcase which I painted!

      2. Ace in the Hole*

        It’s awesome you “rescued” all of those from the trash! My area has a tradition of leaving stuff out on the sidewalk for free if it’s still good. People usually set it out a few days before trash pickup so neighbors have time to look it over… that’s how I furnished my entire first apartment.

        I once saw a transfer station with an amazing setup. On the way in, before getting your trash weighed (we pay by weight for drop-off), they had a donation center to take items that were still good. Since it was right on the way tons of people donated. I saw them accept everything from clothes to furniture to potted plants. They donated some to local charities and resold the rest at a thrift store to fund the program.

        1. Angstrom*

          A lot of the small-own transfer stations in my area have a setup for passing on usable unwanted items — everything from a simple “share table” to an enclosed structure with bookshelves.

        2. Picard*

          This is effin’ brilliant! Our HOA doesnt allow curbside garbage so having this sort of set up at the dump would be very cool!

        4. pancakes*

          The student-run coffee shop at my college was furnished entirely with furniture recovered from the sidewalk. Fortunately this was before bedbug epidemics were common!

        5. GoryDetails*

          Our transfer station used to have a swap shed – and very popular it was. (I scored some amazing books there!) But, alas, some folks just won’t let everyone else have nice things – there was a posted “20 minutes” time limit on parking there, to keep people from standing guard all day and nabbing the choicest bits, but the landfill didn’t have the budget for security and there were folks who not only ignored the time limit but got aggressive, shouldering other people away when anything really choice showed up. (I actually saw near-fisticuffs over some aluminum shower-door edging that *I’d* dropped off – who knew the resale value was worth assault and battery?) The landfill eventually closed the shed due to all of this. Sigh.

          1. Ace in the Hole*

            This is exactly the problem we’ve had. Without the staff and budget to keep someone there at all times, it gets out of hand fast. Plus a lot of people will dump actual garbage there to avoid paying disposal fees.

    3. After 33 years ...*

      Thank you for this! Has COVID made any difference in the amounts or types of garbage you’re seeing?

      1. Ace in the Hole*

        That’s an interesting question! Early in the pandemic there wasn’t a difference in the amount or type per se, but we had a LOT more “self haul” – residents bringing in their own garbage. That meant more people per ton of garbage, so our facility got very crowded with lines down the block most days. I think some of that was because people were at home more, so the ratio of commercial to residential shifted… But some of it seemed to be that people were bored on lockdown and we were one of the few places open.

        Covid has had a lot of other impacts on our work though. We’ve had to permanently stop running one very popular program because of regulatory challenges, safety concerns, and labor shortages. It’s been gone for two years and people still call us daily to yell about the decision.

        1. After 33 years ...*

          Thank you for that! For us, going to the landfill has become a regular Saturday morning date !

    4. 867-5309*

      When reading your note about the 99/1 gender disparity, it reminded me of the Parks & Rec episode where the sanitation department refused to hire women because the men believed they could not do the job.

      1. Ace in the Hole*

        I haven’t seen Parks & Rec, but sadly that sounds accurate for some places. Some guys just can’t imagine a woman keeping up in a dirty physical job.

        Even when a place doesn’t deliberately discriminate like that, it’s hard to fix the disparity. A lot of times they’ll have work practices that are (unintentionally) burdensome on women, like truck routes with inadequate bathroom breaks. Guys can and do pee in bottles… not really an option for women, not to mention periods. Or their equipment is not sized to fit the average woman – I have trouble finding safety gear small enough for my petite coworkers, and that’s even though I am aware of the issue and actively working to fix it.

      1. Ace in the Hole*

        Hard to say… probably a live bat in a bucket of motor oil. We were able to save the bat and take it to a wildlife sanctuary.

    6. Suprisingly ADHD*

      Something I’ve always wondered: I know chemicals and hazardous materials cause serious damage to garbage workers (and the environment). How can people dispose of them if their local waste disposal doesn’t handle it? Or if the label isn’t readable? How does your workplace handle materials that shouldn’t be there?

      1. Ace in the Hole*

        Ooh… hazmat is my pet project, but unfortunately it’s difficult to answer. Each state has different regulations. The best thing is to buy only as much product as you will completely use up. Of course that’s easier said than done, especially if you’re dealing with a backlog of stuff.

        My agency actually runs the local household hazardous waste program as well as trash. We have a dedicated building on site that’s open to the public for free hazardous waste drop off during most of our open hours. If we catch prohibited materials before the customer leaves, we’ll reject them and direct the customer to the hazmat building for proper disposal. If we find it after the fact, we drum it up ourselves. For us, it doesn’t matter if the label is readable or not. We have technicians (myself included) trained to identify mystery chemicals, along with spill response.

        The catch is (like you mentioned) not everywhere has a disposal program, and even if they do not all materials can be accepted. For example our permit prohibits us from handling explosives so we can’t help with stuff like fireworks or ammunition. If we find those we have to call law enforcement to handle it.

        Things to do:
        1. Check if you have a local household hazardous waste (HHW) program. They’re often poorly advertised. It might have limited hours and/or be a series of one-day collection events. Ask your garbage company, if they don’t know check with your city/county government.

        2. Call your local police, fire, and environmental health departments for advice on specific materials, especially explosives, controlled substances, and things illegally dumped on your property.

        3. Check if the manufacturer has instructions for safe disposal. Some products can be neutralized, hardened, diluted, etc. so they are no longer hazardous.

        4. ask your garbage company for disposal guidelines. You can also check with your local wastewater treatment plant about whether it’s safe to put something down the drain.

    7. JustaTech*

      Ooh, I have a question!
      Do you do your own radiation surveys of the solid waste, or does someone from another government department or outside company do that?

      I ask because my cat just had radiation treatment (she’s fine) and we were told we must keep all of her very lightly radioactive poos for 80 days (through a couple of half-lifes) so that it doesn’t set off the alarms at the waste facility and so we don’t get a great big fine.

      1. Ace in the Hole*

        We don’t do radiation surveys… I think the receiving landfill does though. As far as I know we’ve never had a load come up hot!

        Glad to hear your kitty is okay.

    8. Marillenbaum*

      Oh my gosh, thank you so much for remembering! What made you decide to go into this career, and given the massive gender disparity, what has made you decide to stay?

      1. Ace in the Hole*

        No prob, I was just surprised to see so much interest! Sorry I missed your question yesterday, I’m going to answer in two replies since the answers to each are a bit long :)

        What made me decide to go into this career:

        It was sort of an accident. I had recently gotten HazWOPER training for some volunteer work I was doing around an oil spill. When I was looking for a side gig to pick up some extra cash, I saw an add for extra-help workers with hazwoper certification. I applied because the schedule worked and pay was almost twice any other job I could find at the time. Not many people have that training, so they hired anyone who applied.

        While I was working there part time I got to know the people and found it to be a respectful, stable environment with a nice variety of physical and mental work. I’m easily bored so a job that keeps me on my toes is vital. The compensation was better than most other jobs I could find, especially time off and health care, but more importantly I saw that they actually respected the workers. We had autonomy in doing our jobs, and actual trust/support from management. WAY different than the retail and food service world I was used to! So when a full time position opened up I applied and I’ve been here ever since.

      2. Ace in the Hole*

        Part 2: what made me decide to stay, given the gender disparity?

        Woof. That’s a complicated question. I think answering it requires addressing why the gender disparity exists/persists and why it hasn’t impacted me as much as others. The short version is that I haven’t personally been harmed by it. This is a sensitive topic, so please know that nothing I’m about to say is meant to disparage the women who decide not to stay, no matter what their reasons are for leaving.

        Before even touching issues on the job, a huge reason for the disparity is that women don’t apply. There are a ton of reasons ranging from historic discrimination to current childcare shortages. My org has hired every woman that’s applied in the past 6 years. All…. three of us. Yikes. In the last hiring cycle we had about 10 men apply and only 1 woman, which was exciting because normally there are 0 women applicants.

        On the job:

        First, there’s the physical issues. This is a very physical line of work that involves a lot of lifting, operating equipment, using tools, etc. Unfortunately the tools and equipment available literally don’t fit most women. This is a very hard problem to solve… I’m in charge of ordering certain supplies and even when I look really hard I can’t find something suitable that will accommodate the average woman’s proportions, much less a petite woman. Badly-fitting equipment makes the work more difficult, more uncomfortable, and more dangerous. On top of that, since women are (on average) much smaller, the lifting is much more arduous for the average woman. It means that to lift the same amount, a woman is on average moving 30-50% more proportional to her own size. That’s a LOT. I’m quite large for a woman – about average height for a man. Gear made for men usually fits me okay. I have hands and feet large enough to fit men’s shoes and gloves, and I’m bulky/muscular enough that my size doesn’t work against me when moving heavy objects. So I don’t experience the physical challenges many women do.

        Second, is institutional practices that are more burdensome to women. In my experience, these are more common for route drivers – things like insufficient bathroom access, for example. My org doesn’t have any practices that are notably burdensome on women (at least not that I’ve noticed).

        Third, is harassment and sexism from individuals (as opposed to institutional practices). Many male-dominated workplaces are hostile to women. I was very lucky that the men I worked with when I was new were generally allies. I experienced some minor hazing from one dude, but that seemed to be more because I was the NEW girl than because I was the new GIRL. Coworkers and managers treated me the same as the men I worked with, with the same opportunities and the same respect. I think this may have been influenced by my somewhat masculine presentation – I tend to dress, talk, and use body language that reads very androgynous. Female coworkers with a more feminine presentation have told me they experienced more sexism (and yes, I feel gross typing this because women should not have to “act manly” to ward off sexism). There was more harassment from customers than I’ve had in other jobs, but I always felt that my colleagues were supportive and that management allowed me the agency to respond however I felt was most appropriate even if it upset the customer.

        Finally… representation and advancement. Who wants to stay in a career if they literally can’t see a future for people like themselves? Lucky for me, my very first supervisor was a woman and a great mentor. Even after she left, my (male) supervisors were great about recognizing my strengths and helping me grow professionally. I’ve gotten consistent promotions, increasing responsibility, and good professional development. Without that I’m sure I’d have gotten bored and discouraged by now, and probably would have left for greener pastures.

    9. GoryDetails*

      Thanks so much for posting! I definitely respect the folks who haul away The Stuff – and I do try to follow the rules about safety. (I also have a compost heap, so my trash has almost nothing “rottable” in it anymore.)

    10. Cora*

      So, I don’t know if you’re still checking this, Ace, but I am thinking about this all day – is there any way I could send you an email to keep discussing this? I’m a fiction writer and this seems like such a good setting for a mystery. It might go nowhere – but if it ever did, I’d love a way to be in touch. My email is Coragyps01 (at) gmail (dot) com. That’s a zero after the S.

      1. Ace in the Hole*

        Oh that sounds like an interesting story premise, I’d love to read it if you decide to do that! I’ll send you an email.

    11. Speaks to Dragonflies*

      I just want to say thank you for doing what you do. It’s one of those jobs that needs to be done to help keep civilization civil, but most people don’t think much about it. So a big THANK YOU, from one nasty job having person to another.

      1. Nana*

        For anyone else reading WAY after the fact…within the past ten years, someone did write a non-fiction book about garbage collection, after spending months job-shadowing. Her premise was that garbage collection enabled the growth of civilized cities. Without regular garbage collection and disposal, people had to live in proximity to dangerous trash and Stuff.
        Sorry, no memory of the title…it was reviewed in “Slate”

  51. Albeira Dawn*

    Extremely Niche Question Corner:
    (1) An update from last week’s CAD/plan mark up question: I got a Wacom Intuos tablet on sale from Best Buy and convinced the IT department to let me download Bluebeam Revu and folks, this is exactly what I was hoping for. I can mark up PDFs like nobody’s business, it feels very natural, and it’s quick. Highly recommend.
    (2) In the long term, I’d like to run for local office, like a city or council commissioner and maybe eventually state legislator. I’m passionate about making change and improving my community. I do wonder, though, how people keep their day jobs? Especially because these local (and state, sometimes) government offices don’t pay nearly enough to keep a roof over your head and food on your table. (My local county commissioners get paid about $25,000 a year, while the average 1-bedroom rents for about $1,800 and a 3-bedroom house is at least $400,000.) I saw a local politician on Twitter mention that she hasn’t been able to contribute to a 401k for years. I was wondering how to start planning for that — if anyone has experience with this or maybe has read a book talking about these kind of details, I’m all ears!

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      You might get your feet wet by getting on some volunteer boards – which are official government things that probably don’t require running for office. Opportunities and duties depend on the population of your locality, but even in a big city there are probably things like neighborhood advisory boards.

      This kind of thing will put you in proximity to elected officials, and you’ll be able to find out whether they can do those jobs in 2 nights a week while holding down a regular 9-5 job, or whether they really are taking a significant hit to their income. (I would discount the local politician posting on Twitter because you don’t know kind of agenda she has around the issue).

      My neighbor is on the planning commission for our ~8000 resident town, and he’s gotten to know the city manager, the mayor and council, and their counterparts in nearby townships and cities. He has one meeting a month – evening or Saturday, and then maybe spends another 8 hours a month doing solo work like reading reports and communicating with the county zoning board.

  52. Rara Avis*

    We have been talking about/forming committees on/dancing around a major operational change for 3 years. (It was going to happen last year but my grandboss overruled my boss on the grounds that there was too much else going on. (You know, Covid, building the airplane while flying it, a physical move of the entire division.) Doing things this new way really requires training to do it well (or so I read/hear), but my boss keeps doubling down on the idea that we are all so fabulous that he could institute the change tomorrow and we’d all do fine and not do any disservice to our clients. I and other committee members have asked for appropriate training; my supervisor and others on her level have also pushed back; but we had a meeting this week and another next week where we were asked to figure it out for ourselves. So I’m not confident that we will get any real training.

    On top of that issue, we just received an email reminding us of all the tasks required for a major due date coming up next Wednesday. It ended with a cheery encouragement to have a relaxing long weekend and do something for the Day of Service on Monday. Given the approaching due date next week, I imagine I’m not the only one who will be working all weekend. The program we use to do this major task went down for a week last week under a malware attack; we aren’t able to access some of the information we need until later today (maybe) but we need to do extra things with the information due to Covid; I just found the email to be extremely tone-deaf given how much work we all have on our plates this week in particular.

    The question: I’m not sure I want to point out the issue to my boss directly, given how often I have been pushing back on the operational change issue. Is it out of line to talk to his VP? She was a personal friend before she was promoted, and I’m pretty comfortable bringing things to her, but it feels a little weird to ask her to tell him how the email was received.

  53. Kristinemc*

    I wonder if anyone has dealt with the logistics of this – we are working on an employee manual, and my leadership team would like to limit vacation – you can accrue it as soon as you start, but you cannot use it for the first six months.

    However, we also have a use it or lose it vacation policy, so it cannot roll over.

    Has anyone dealt with this? It seems like it would be a nightmare to track, even with an HRIS system. If they start August 1st, do they simply lose five months of vacation because they aren’t eligible to use it before the end of year? Or do you somehow roll it over and track that separately from the other vacation?

    1. 867-5309*

      I cannot speak to the tracking but… six months seems excessive. I’ve seen the first 90 days but even then, to your point, if they accrue starting October 1 then it is unfair for a new hire to lose it.

      In most places I’ve worked that use an accural model, you can use your vacation as soon as you start accruing it but you cannot “borrow against” (e.g., take a one week vacation when only one day is available) until after your 90 days.

    2. Anonymous Hippo*

      Can you push back against that policy? It’s awfully restrictive to limit the use of vacation on both ends like that…makes if seem like the company would just as soon you not have vacation. It’s one thing to not use until accrued (which I also disagree with) but 6 months is crazy.

      Logistically, everywhere I’ve worked bases starting vacation on when you start. So if you position is 2 weeks, and you start July 1st, you’d only be eligible for 1 week that year.

      1. Anonymous Hippo*

        But coupled with the 6 months restriction, yeah, I think they just wouldn’t get any vacation that first year.

      2. Kristinemc*

        I can push back against it, and I plan on trying to figure out what they want to accomplish with it, and see if we can work something else out. 6 months is a very long time, and if I was told I couldn’t take any time off for the first six months, it would discourage me from taking the job.

        I think rather than losing it, they would simply get to carry it over to the next year – but it would not be fun to track that manually.

        We already prorate the vacation based on start date – since it accrues per pay period, they won’t accrue more than a week, say, if they start July 1st.

        1. JustaTech*

          At least for tracking manually, can you check and see if your payroll system can do the roll over for you? I’ve been helping my in-laws with updating their employee handbook and vacation/sick time stuff and I’m pretty sure their very basic software has an option to do calendar-year rollover.

          1. Kristinemc*

            Yes – I know they can do a roll over, but since we currently don’t have a roll over, so we’d have to set up a second PTO plan, and I’d have to remember to change it for each person.. but I will check with them.

      3. Paris Geller*

        +1.

        I work for city government, and every job I’ve had limits no vacation in the first 6 months (though I agree for other industries that’s quite a long time–I think 60 or 90 days is much more reasonable), but you can’t take it for 6 months AND use it or lose it? That’s. . . not a good deal. That would be a dealbreaker if I was job searching tbh.

    3. Squidhead*

      My employer (a large hospital) tracks everyone by their start date, not the calendar year. We begin to accrue vacation on day 1 but it doesn’t show up in our “bank” until 6 months in. It would probably be a huge change for you to switch from a calendar-year system to an anniversary-year system, but since the system was already running at my work before I got there, it seems pretty logical. We do also have lots of other things tied to our anniversary dates too, like manager evaluations and our contractual annual raise, so no one expects to be on the exact same timeline as their coworkers anyway.

      1. Kristinemc*

        This policy definitely looks like that, I agree. I don’t think that is truly what is happening here – I am not sure if there is a specific issue they are trying to solve with this that I am unaware of, but they are normally pretty good about giving time off!

    5. Elle Woods*

      In one of my previous jobs, they had a similar policy: you start accruing vacation as soon as you’re hired. The caveat was that you couldn’t use any of it for six full calendar months. If you started on the 1st of the month, that actually meant you couldn’t take vacation for seven months! And, like your example, if you started in the second half of the year and cannot roll it over, you lost vacation time altogether. It was a complete nightmare to track, even with the HRIS system.

      Frankly, it was demoralizing to not be able to take even one single vacation day off for that length of time.

    6. Sleeping Late Every Day*

      Most places I worked started vacation and other PTO accrual in the first full month of working. I don’t remember how soon we could use it, but the usual rule was it could roll over for one year, unlike sick days, which had an indefinite accrual. So vacation was use it or lose it every other year from point of hire, and sick time was rollover any days left plus get new accrued days each year.

    7. AcademiaNut*

      So half of your new hires are going to get no vacation in their first 1-6 months (depending on when they start), and only after that will start accruing it. So someone starting Jul 2 will have no vacation for six months, and at that point they’ll still have no vacation accrued. If you, say, give 12 days vacation a year, they’ll have been at the job nearly a year before they can take a week off.

      I hope that’s a nightmare for the employer! That way they can suffer a bit with their employees.

      A better system – limit vacation for a much shorter period – no vacation for a month or two while training is more reasonable. Once the training is over, the accrued vacation appears. Allow people to roll over up to a year of vacation (or half a year, if you have generous leave), so that they have the ability to do radical things like take a vacation in January. That, or after the first year front load the vacation in January, so they can use it if they want.

      I do think that this is a vacation policy that’s going to drive away good candidates, if they have better options.

      1. Kristinemc*

        It would be a nightmare for me to track, probably not for my employer. :) But I do understand what you’re saying!

        This is a draft of a manual from a few years ago, so I am hopeful that the current job market will encourage them to drop it. This is definitely something that would make me take a second look at taking a job – vacation is so important!

        I hope I can convince them to drop this entirely, but if not, to limit the amount of time – maybe 60 or 90 days, but six months is a really long time. And I think we’d have to let people roll over vacation for their first year.

  54. Gnome*

    Hopefully this doesn’t double post… I’m having tech issues…

    I interviewed for a transfer position in my company. What I liked most was that it was going to be a team with a junior, mid, and senior person – I was to be the mid-level person. I’m in a technical area (think engineering/STEM type stuff) and I’ve always been more or less on my own, the sole teapot engineer in a team, so I’ve done a lot of self teaching/growth. I was glad to have somebody to work with senior to me in this area I’m not as strong in, say going from general teapot engineering to working specifically in spout design aspect). I transfer and the senior position is switched to a management position. The person hired into it has no teapot engineering experience, so I’m the senior technical person on the team.

    I still like the work ok, but I’m struggling to stay motivated in the “learn and do” AGAIN… and also working with a entry-level spout designer trying to bring them up. I’m capable and doing good work, so that’s not the issue… it’s just… the thing I was most looking forward to is gone and it’s kinda leaving me feeling “blah.” Anyone have similar experience? Advice?

    1. 867-5309*

      Do you want to stay on the technical path or move into managing? If the latter, can you view this as a step toward that path?

      1. Gnome*

        I actually moved to this position from a technical management position… I’m not horrible at that, but I want to grow my technical skills.. if I really want to manage, I’d need to do that anyway.

    2. TechGirlSupervisor*

      Are you me? That is exactly what happened to me a few years ago. I was supposed to be the “intermediate” teapot designer, with a “senior” designer. The entire project was estimated on that. Well, the senior designer was re-assigned to another project and instead we got a transfer from another office that was a junior designer. Which left me as the technical lead and supposed to train the new person in best design practices, etc. And management was somehow shocked and amazed that they couldn’t get the same level of work out the junior person as the senior person. A good senior designer can literally be equal to two juniors in my industry and not at double the pay. It was very frustrating. You have my sympathy.

      As for advice, what worked for me was essentially presenting the situation to project manager that we would have to do more prototyping and on-the-job training since the senior person is not around anymore. We got to do more of that sort of work up-front, which re-engaged my interest in doing the design work and it was satisfying to watch the junior designer start to get his feet under him as well. I also took it as the opportunity to take ownership of the design and experiment with some things I thought would work better, since I was now the senior person and the technical decisions fell into my lap.

      1. Gnome*

        Sorry, I am not you :)

        I have run projects before and we definitely have the time/resources to run this way…so at least there is that. I am getting to mentor more, which is nice, but I have been in my field for about a decade and have yet to have a technical mentor… And it’s starting to hold me back because, while I’m good enough to make it work, I can’t learn as much as quickly.

        I guess I’ll have to decide if I want to stay with the job as-is, at least for a while, and transfer, or go looking for greener pastures. Heck, I keep thinking about taking classes even, but that’s not feasible time-wise right now.

        Thanks for letting me know I’m not alone!

  55. Mary-Anne*

    I am no longer employed due to childcare instability. When I’m interviewing for new jobs, what is the best way to talk about this time period? I wasn’t fired, but there was basically an ongoing conversation with my manager where if I couldn’t get stable childcare (no more covid quarantines/sick days for minor symptoms), I’d be fired and therefore ineligible for rehire. I’m worried saying I quit for childcare reasons will make it look like I’m disorganized and also penalize me for being a mother, but it’s not like being fired sounds much better either. Thoughts? Advice?

    1. Kathenus*

      There are SO many people in the same boat as you including a dear friend of mine. People will understand, it is a very unfortunate but known, outcome of this pandemic. I truly think most employers would fully understand and not count this against you at all. Not to say there aren’t some a$$holes out there who might, but that’s an indication that they would probably not be great to work for anyway. Sorry you’re in this situation.

    2. Not A Manager*

      “Everything was up in the air for a while due to COVID. Now that things are more stable(!), I’m looking forward to this new employment opportunity.”

    3. Sloanicota*

      Especially if you are applying for remote or flexible jobs, this can be a REASON why their job is a perfect match for you. I have convinced my employer they are lucky to have me cheap because I need the flexibility (when in fact I was pretty desperate for a job). Since the issue of childcare is likely to be recurring these are the kind of jobs you might want right now anyway.

    4. J.B.*

      That sucks I’m sorry. I think your best bet may be if your field is hiring a lot right now to confront it head on as a childcare problem for which you need flexibility or part time and try to ramp back up later.

    5. Nesprin*

      Covid really threw a wrench in my work- up till then I’d been highly productive/responsible, and really looking for a role where I can use my skills in X again.

    6. Purple Cat*

      I would emphasize that your company wasn’t responsive to the changing needs of COVID, so you had to quit.
      It doesn’t necessarily spell out that “childcare issues” were the problem, but is still honest.

    7. Bex SF*

      Good managers and good companies will understand. And really, you probably don’t want to work for someone who doesn’t.

  56. This Old House*

    How do you get ahead at work when you can’t seem to get ahead? Since we got back after the New Year, we’ve had snow days, weather delays, daycare closures, I’ve had 2 doctor’s appointments, and had to take several hours sick time for random, unexpected pain. I have deadlines and the work needs to get done, but I’m just falling further and further behind, and the more overwhelming it gets the less I can bring myself to tackle things. It’s not that there’s too much work, it’s that I haven’t been there often enough to get it done for reasons mostly beyond my control. I have the sick and vacation time to accommodate the time away from the office, but it doesn’t take the work off my plate. And taking time off is not restful or restorative if you’re using it because you’re in too much pain to work, or have to go to difficult, emotional medical appointments. And it doesn’t help that I’m falling equally behind at home, and my house is falling apart at the seams, because after my kids go to sleep I’m trying to catch up on the work I missed until all hours of the night. It just feels like it never ends. Every minute away from my kids I have to spend on work or chores, every minute away from work I have to spend on my absolutely relentless kids.

    1. CrappyAnon*

      Pick 30 minutes. Spend 20 min on one task, take a 10 minute break. Do that once every night if you can. Keep a list of potential 20 min goals, then tell you brain I am not going to worry or focus on XYZ, it’s on the list, it will happen eventually. Also maybe triage the list – what if the house was just extra messy this month and we worry about it next month? What if we just ate a lot of grilled cheese and canned soup this month instead of agonizing over shopping, planning, meal prepping? More breaks seems counter intuitive, but you’re more productive in the long run if you are not functioning burnt out.

    2. Anonymous Hippo*

      I’ve found the father behind I am the more crucial adequate breaks are. You just can’t expect your brain to run at 110% constantly. You’ll actually start messing up and being more inefficient. One thing that helps me is before I go on a break, I make a plan for my next work segment…that way, when I come back, refreshed, I jump right in and don’t have to think about a lot, so I can knock out a good chuck of work…when I start needing a break again, I do a quick review again, make a new plan, then break and come back fresh again.

      Also, I’ve called my boss and wept and demanded he get me more help. I know that’s not a normal recommendation, but it worked. LOL

      1. WellRed*

        I think talking to the boss is needed at this point, at least to help you gain perspective on how far behind you think you are. Maybe you are putting unneeded pressure on yourself, maybe things can be pushed back. And I don’t mean to sound flippant but unless your job involves curing cancer or brokering world peace, STOP working all hours trying to catch up. If you damage your health, you won’t be helping anyone.

        1. JustaTech*

          As someone in the oncology space: even if you job *does* involve curing cancer, take a step back. Ask for help. Ask your boss to prioritize what *only you* can do that has to be done *right now*, and set everything else on the back burner. (Maybe your boss will see that there are some things that don’t need to be done at all.)

          As for home life, seconding CrappyAnon about easing back there too. I had like a whole year when I was in middle school where I ate mac’n’cheese or boxed stuffing or canned spagetteos at least 2-3 days a week, and I turned out a perfectly fine, vegetable eating adult. As long as everyone has clean underpants and the house is safe, try to let it be. (I don’t know if your kids are old/tall/capable enough to do some of the laundry or dishes without it being more work for you, but that might be a place to start.)

          1. This Old House*

            Definitely pulled dirty underwear out of the laundry for one kid yesterday, so perhaps there’s not much more we can let go . . .

    3. Camel whose back has broken*

      No advice, just commiseration. My family was just barely getting by in the fall. For months I was getting up in the middle of the night, because I was lying awake thinking about how behind at work I was so I figured to just get up and work on it. I had to make a rule for myself that I could get up no earlier than 5 AM so at least I would get *some* sleep and be able to think somewhat straight to actually get some of that work done.

      And then over the holidays, Omicron closed our day care. Three of our (wife’s and my) parents told us they have cancer. One of mine has already passed away from theirs. We’re too nervous to all fly for her funeral but my wife is asking her workplace if she can take bereavement leave anyways because she doesn’t think she can get any work done as a (temporarily) single parent with no day care.

  57. Scoffrio*

    Does anyone have any advice on starting a new job where your manager is also new? I’d love to get things set up so that it works for both of us right off the bat and would love any strategies or recommendations for things I should incorporate! I thought there was AAM guidance somewhere but I haven’t been able to find it.

    1. New Mom*

      The Management Center has a really helpful check-in doc that I’ve used with all managers and employees over the years. I think figure out how often you both need to meet. In my experience at least once a week is important, and to prioritize that time. You could also go over communication styles.

      1. Nonprofit Exec*

        I remember Alison saying a long time ago that she wrote that! (She worked there for years/maybe still does.)

    2. English Rose*

      Interesting, I’ve never been in that situation.
      I think I’d combine informal chats in which you can ask her about where she’s worked before and share some of your own work history with sharing some first impressions of your new workplace (assuming they’re generally positive), and maybe asking “have you met so and so/found out who deals with such and such here yet”. So it’s kind of friendly and collaborative ‘you two as a team’ stuff.
      And like with any new manager try to establish what their expectations are of you in terms while (politely) helping them understand how you like to be managed.

    3. Gnome*

      Well, in that position I would try to open a dialogue that covers stuff that’s important to you (and likely the manager).. Like, “I find I do really well with teapot reports if I have a day to set them aside before proofreading, can we make it a plan to build that into the schedule whenever possible?” Or “How do you prefer I handle Y when you are out of pocket and a deadline is coming up… I know I’ve had managers with vastly different preferences in the past.”

      This marks you as someone who is proactive, looking to do your best, and to work with others’ preferences. It also makes it more like your new manager will be comfortable telling you, “I’d like you to…” If something comes up because you are signalling that you are open to that information.

    4. OneTwoThree*

      In my last company, I was in your position. I realized too late that I had been doing things the way my manager wanted them done, not the way the rest of the company did them. No one told me I was the only one doing these things in an odd way. For example, the way I turned in time cards caused more work for me and those who approved them. It was my manager wanting to see a report of what I did every day. There would have been much easier ways to do that.

      I also trusted that she knew what she was talking about. I even had suspicions and would double-check things with her and believed her. For example, I was under the impression that if I hit x goal in sales, I’d receive $x commission. She was WAY wrong and I found out too late to save my paycheck.

      This is 75% because of her personality and my personality. I don’t want to freak you out. However, I wish I would have been more aware of the possibility.

  58. Cat Tree*

    A new temp started in my department, and I know him from a previous job. The thing is, I hated working with him. He is both lazy and incompetent. Honestly, I just outright dislike him as a person. I’m actually surprised he got this job because I didn’t think he has the qualifications, but the standards are somewhat lower for temps. (We have lots of great temps too who transition to permanent and it’s sort of like an extended paid interview, but there are occasionally some bad ones.)

    Anyway, I won’t be working directly with him but I am the SME for several things he’ll work on so I will likely help him learn those things. I know I have to be completely professional and let him stand or fall on his own merits. I won’t sacrifice my professional reputation to be outwardly petty to him. But I’m feeling petty inside!

    I guess I’m not looking for advice because I know I can’t do anything about it. Maybe some commiseration though?

    1. calonkat*

      Oh my sincere sympathies.

      Maybe reward yourself every time you restrain yourself?
      And remember, you only have to deal with him at work, he has to be himself 24/7. And he probably has family who have to deal with him frequently.

    2. Gnome*

      I will commiserate!

      I ended up managing a team with a person who displayed a serious lack of judgement about appropriate office conduct when I was their coworker (no details, too identifying) and in my personal direction…
      I was totally professional about them and their performance… Which totally sucked. They were eventually let go (person above me had authority, not me, but I helped it along because this was NOT the person you want doing the thing he was going to be doing if they stayed… Something akin working with hazardous materials). The petty part of me was glad to see them go, but my inner manager was sad I couldn’t make it work (but safety first, right?)… And I really did try, probably more than I would have if I hadn’t had a bad experience first.

      They just reached out to connect on LinkedIn. I am ignoring it.

    3. Policy Wonk*

      I’d recommend you document your interactions with him. Be positive – he may have improved – but keep a record of your dealings with him, including what you trained him on, so he can’t later say that he was never trained on it. I’m fond of e-mails to self, as that way you get date/time, but any record will help.

      Sending you commiseration…

  59. Identity Crisis*

    Can I ask the internet commentariat whether I’m just a mom with a baby in their 4mo sleep regression taking things personally due to exhaustion, or actually have grounds to give feedback to my manager?

    I came back from my 14 week maternity leave two weeks ago, and only today by complete accident found out that my national supervisors changed the name of the program I lead, which has implications for things like my resume, how I refer to the program with major partners and stakeholders, etc. This means I’ve been messing this up for 2 weeks because no one told me! I only found out because I happened to look at an “FYI when you can” type doc sent yesterday and pinged my supervisor asking why our name was weird. TBH, this is in line with other things that have happened before within our organization, so I might be overly sensitive.

    I’m honestly very irked – this just seems like one of those major updates I should get a heads up on my first few days back, and I want to tell my supervisor that I wish it hadn’t been handled this way. There’s no action to take to “fix” it, per se, so I also don’t know if it’s worth it? My sense of what’s appropriate is being clouded by a severe lack of sleep, tbh and I don’t trust my own emotional responses at the moment…

    1. CrappyAnon*

      I think its ridiculous to change the name and not tell you. But I think you just have to let it go. Or start calling it the Project formally known as [old name]. They probably weren’t being malicious in not telling you, thought they had looped you in, or thought someone else had. Congrats on the tiny human!

    2. New Mom*

      Is your job kind of a disorganized place? I ask because mine is and I could see something like this happening, but you are valid in feeling frustrating. Who made that decision while you were gone? Can you talk to them? Also, I was in a daze for the first three weeks after mat leave and then it got a lot better. Good luck!

      1. Identity Crisis*

        Sometimes I think it defines disorganized! Turns out it wasn’t a broad announcement that I just missed, apparently, but rather only certain people knew? Which is unfortunately, not surprising for us. **sigh**

        1. Fran Fine*

          Yeah, I’d be upset by this too. If you’re leading this program, you should have been given the heads up about the change when you got back and an explanation about why it happened.

    3. 867-5309*

      I could see a supervisor thinking, “This name makes more sense” and making the change without considering it much further than that. I can definitely see being irked but it’s unlikely it was an intentional slap in the face or anything.

    4. Jaybee*

      It does sound like this hit you more personally because you’re in a vulnerable place right now, but it sounds like a simple issue of poor planning or poor communication rather than something that they intentionally did to you. I’d give yourself time to process the emotions, then maybe flag it as something that could be improved on in the future, or maybe something that action could be taken on now – if you weren’t informed, are there other people involved who should know but maybe don’t?

    5. Jean Pargetter Hardcastle*

      Like others, I don’t assume this was a slap in the face. However, as a manger, I appreciate knowing when something I’ve done has rubbed someone the wrong way. If you reported to me, I would not mind and would in fact appreciate you asking for a quick chat and explaining how you feel.

    6. OtterB*

      Like the others, I don’t think this was deliberate, just something that happened while you were out that nobody remembered to tell you. And being sleep deprived makes everything harder.

      Maybe you could tell your supervisor that you know things can slip by, but can they think of anything else that was new while you were out that you ought to get a heads up about?

    7. Policy Wonk*

      When was the name changed? If it was changed shortly after you went on maternity leave they are all accustomed to the change now and it probably didn’t occur to anyone to tell you – they might not remember that it wasn’t changed before you left.

      It does seem weird that no one corrected you when you used the wrong name, but I really don’t think this is personal. Not a bad idea to give your supervisor a heads up, and suggest that perhaps when people go on extended leave the person/people covering be responsible for some kind of “welcome back, here’s what happened while you were gone” document. If you can, avoid getting emotional, or they won’t take your seriously.

      Congrats of the new family member, and on returning to work – two very big accomplishments (and challenges)!

  60. Echo*

    What are your favorite resources for figuring out what kind of jobs/titles might be a good fit for your skills, interests, and experience – especially if most of those are not particularly specialized or technical? Is What Color Is Your Parachute still good in 2022? Thoughts on how to find informational interviewing contacts when your question is “what kind of job am I even describing”?

    1. Employed Minion*

      I have had conversations with friends who know me well. They work in very different fields than I do so I got some interesting suggestions. Many of which did seem like they could fit.

    2. BB2*

      I’m in the same place as you. What Color is Your Parachute didn’t give me any job ideas but it helped hone in on what I wanted out of job. I’m in the same place as before reading the book with not knowing what job/title I should be looking for but more aware of what type of job would be a good fit.

    3. OtterB*

      O*Net online is a US Dept of Labor website with lots of information about job requirements, job families, etc. You might browse through that. It’s helpful if you can think broadly, less so if you’re trying to find something in a limited geographic area.

    4. Rhymetime*

      I recommend a book published in 2020 called Awaken to Your Calling – A Guide to Discovering Your Career Path and Life Direction. It’s published by SheWrites Press. I did some career strategy sessions with the author, and the book is excellent.

  61. New Mom*

    Hey other parents, how’s it going? Our daycare we closed all week due to covid exposure and we’ve gotten a really waffle-y response about if it’ll be open next week. What’s hard is it feels like employers (at least mine) have “childcare issue fatigue” and are not being as sympathetic about it. My husband and I both have pretty demanding jobs, and while my family can help us some, they are not available to be full-time childcare which is really what we need.

    My daycare workers live with immune-compromised people and are asking that we only be indoors with immediate family for the next two weeks and since my work CAN be done remotely (job just wants face time for collaboration) I didn’t think this would be a problem but now my boss is telling me to get this written up by the daycare and sent to HR to assess. That is a bit stressful for me, but maybe a normal request? Are others experiencing less understanding at this point?

    1. This Old House*

      Not going well, although so far daycare is the least of our worries. Honestly, I think your daycare’s request is more out of line than your boss’s – none of us can control what coworkers or clients do outside of work, or who they come into contact with. If you’re willing and able to work from home, the least the daycare can do is put the request in writing. (Though it would be nice if employers were allowing work from home, no questions asked, these days, unfortunately we’re not all so lucky. My job’s official rule is no work from home at all, no matter what.) I can understand how reluctant you would be to jeopardize your existing childcare arrangements at this point, but I wonder what would happen if you pushed back. And what are the parameters of this request? Are you not allowed to go to the grocery store? Aren’t there children there whose parents can’t work from home? Are they being kicked out?

    2. Employed Minion*

      It seems really weird to require documentation from daycare for HR. Our daycare isn’t the best at communicating and I don’t see them able to provide anything formal that would be accepted as official.

      1. New Mom*

        This is my concern too. I usually get voice memos, and I think my daycare is getting harangued by parents about the closures so I have asked and not received something in writing and am hesitant to pester. I just want to focus on work things that are stressful enough instead of ALSO focus on hurting my relationship with my childcare option.

        1. pancakes*

          Could you offer to draft something for them to sign? It sounds like it would only need to be a simple paragraph saying, basically, “For the safety of our workers here at Such-and-Such Daycare, we are asking clients to [etc.] for the next two weeks.”

        2. Employed Minion*

          It sounds like your boss has little to no experience with daycares. I think it would be worth talking to HR directly and seeing if they even require anything. Then you can also learn -directly- what your company’s policies are etc.

      2. This Old House*

        Is your daycare an in-home daycare? I can’t imagine a center not being able to provide something official. Not having time, sure, but we’re talking about a business that bills and invoices; orders supplies; pays their bills on time (I hope); bills DSS for low-income students who receive subsidies; passes inspections several times a year, which includes providing copious official documentation of what they’re doing and who they serve; maintains family confidentiality around things like health, income, and financial information; maintains files of required vaccines and other medical history; keeps background checks and required certifications up-to-date; etc. Daycares should be pros at official documentation. (I may not have realized this if I were just a parent, but at my job I work with my kids’ daycare on a couple of projects and I’ve learned things I never knew I never knew.)

        I’d expect to have trouble getting something if I talked to the classroom teachers, but the front desk or the director could absolutely put something on letterhead for me if I asked them to.

        Again, that doesn’t mean the initial request is reasonable. I don’t think it is. But if they’re asking, the very least they can do is make it official.

        1. New Mom*

          In-home and they are super disorganized with anything billing/communication related. But very loving and kind with my child.

    3. emmers*

      Yeah we are in a 10 day daycare closure in an infant room so no masks and no vaccines. My workplace is letting me work from home no issues, although caring for a 5 month old while running 6 hour virtual trainings feels impossible. My husband on the other hand, emailed his boss to say he needs to quarantine and work remotely the next week and was told that ‘if that was truly the case everyone in American would need to quarantine now’ His boss is old school and I guess assumes I’ll be taking on all childcare?? Grand.

    4. So they all cheap ass rolled over and one fell out*

      Our after school care was closed before school even started. They said someone in the program tested positive. I can only assume it was a staff member, given that the program had already been closed for the holidays for two weeks, none of the kids could have gotten it there.

      It’s been a huge pain. We have to pick up our kiddo at an exact time every day (I had to block half an hour on my calendar to make sure nobody tried to schedule any meetings), pickup takes longer because of all the parent traffic, and then we have a bored kid around the house interrupting us. In some ways (e.g. increased uncertainty, sitting in that parent traffic) it’s worse than when we were just doing virtual learning.

      1. Potatoes gonna potate*

        Sorry offtopic here but is your username a mix of the nursery rhyme + the cheap ass rolls????

    5. WellRed*

      Are you sure your daycare is saying you need to wfh? Surely that’s not workable for all the parents and it seems a huge overreach. Maybe they just want you to curb unnecessary contact. Maybe I’m naive. Hang in there.

      1. New Mom*

        I think she wants all of us to work remotely. She doesn’t “need” her job as a daycare provider so I think she feels that if the families aren’t willing to keep her safe then she’s fine with just closing which would be really, really hard for us. It’s close by, cheaper than other options by HUNDREDS of dollars a month and she is really wonderful with our toddler. Just thinking of all the repercussions of it closing makes my head spin, and it would be easier to just WFH for me since my job can be done 100% remotely. I’m just juggling a lot and wish that work could be more flexible.

  62. CrappyAnon*

    Any advice for being told you are underperforming when it feels like goal posts are constantly shifting, and there’s no clear benchmarks for success besides higher up is happy? I’ve been trying to implement my own benchmarks, and I refer to them (Ran 10 datasets thru process XYZ, improved ABC in that process as well). I thought things were improving. But I got same feedback yesterday. Definitely feels like rock bottom. I’m giving it another 2 months (1 year) before wanting to job hunt, but I would really like to make it work here.

    1. Kathenus*

      Get, or put, the goal posts you are told in writing so you can refer to that in your progress reports instead of having to use your own. If you can’t get the guidelines/goals sent to you in writing, after a verbal meeting on them send an email to your boss following up – ‘thanks for meeting, I understand that the priorities/goals/deadlines right now are x, y and z – I’ll keep you updated on progress’ or similar.

      1. JustaTech*

        Yes to written goal/metrics!
        I’ve been helping my in-laws with their small business and I swear 60% of the issues they have with staff is because they, the owners, don’t give clear instructions in writing and don’t have clear (any) metrics on what “doing their job” looks like.

        Another thing to consider (and this will depend on your office/manager) is maybe to ask for more frequent performance check-ins. If you only get evaluated quarterly can you ask for maybe very quick monthly check-ins, both so you can find out of the goals have changed, and so you can show your managed not only what you’re doing but that you are being conscientious about your work.

    2. 867-5309*

      Have you had the big picture conversation with your manager to get specific and actionable feedback?

      What kind of feedback are you getting – is it about on the job performance (not running enough reports in a timely manner), behavioral related (e.g., communications, etc.)? It’s tough to offer any meaningful advise without a bit more info.

    3. Girasol*

      Is this related to forced ranking? Some companies find that too many people are being ranked “exceptional,” and to stop the grade inflation insist that managers rank most of their people average or below. A manager with a good group can end up having to say that a good person is underperforming.

    4. Diatryma*

      When I was in my previous terrible job, I looked forward to my PIP because I wanted to see data and metrics. I was disappointed, ultimately, but that was also their last chance to prove to me that they were willing to back up my ‘poor performance’ with actual numbers. Track your own if possible, and tell them you’re doing it. If nothing else, it will satisfy you whether the job is a poor fit.

  63. Dani*

    Is it OK to ask for a raise if I have already received on within the past year?

    I work for a large company that does raises every June. 1% if you underperform, 2% met expectations, 3% for high performers. There is no negotiating these raises, all the budgets have long since been allocated by the time we find out what our raise is.

    I always get either 2% or 3%, but given the market right now I feel I am underpayed for my role (similar roles in the area pay at least 10 percent more). The yearly salary adjustment that barely (if even) covers inflation just does not do it for me. I am aware I could change companies, but would prefer to stay here if possible.

    Is it OK to ask for a raise even if I received one last June (and will again this June)?

    1. 867-5309*

      Have you made the business case to your boss for why you deserve the raise, related to performance? Do you have (beyond Glassdoor and anything anecdotal from your network) that reinforces you are underpaid by 10%? The time to bring this up would be your performance review and make it a bigger picture conversation, not just about the annual incremental.

      1. Dani*

        If I decide to ask for it, I will of course make a case for myself.
        I have evidence from HR reported websites showing the salaries in my area, as well as the salary ranges of jobs currently being posted.
        The performance reviews occur at the same time we receive our salary increases (June) at which point there is no negotiation to be had because, as I mentioned, the budgets have already been allocated and the raises set.

        1. irene adler*

          IN which case, get the conversation started well before the performance review. Now maybe? Otherwise you’ll get the ‘can’t change anything now’ excuse. Don’t want that.

          Why not ask for a raise even though it has been less than 1 year? If you have the goods…

          1. Dani*

            In Alison’s guides for asking for a raise, she mentions that it might not be a good idea to ask if you’ve already received one in the past year, that was my main hesitation.

  64. Put the Blame on Edamame*

    Hi ya! A few months back I posted here in a meltdown over having my raise shafted when I moved roles internally, thanks to everyone who replied – I sorted it out and within 48 hours had secured my pay increase, backdated too! I would never have been as confident in dealing with it without you.

    New role starts Monday, I just deleted my shortcuts and old meeting invites, feels SO good!

  65. Onion Rings*

    I work in retail. I would like readers’ thoughts on a situation that keeps popping back up. We have medical masks in a dispenser by the door. A customer comes in with no mask, then says, “I forgot my mask–oh well!” I point out that we have free masks. The customer declines, often adding that they are vaccinated. It’s so weird. Is this something you all have seen? Do you find it acceptable? I’m really trying to understand.

    1. Kathenus*

      They didn’t forget their mask, they didn’t bring one intentionally. They will not wear one unless your store requires it, and even then who knows. It’s completely unacceptable. The vaccination thing is a red herring – first of all who knows if it’s true, even if so are they boostered? If someone truly forgot their mask and cared, they’d say thanks, take it and put it on. The people you describe have no intention of wearing a mask, unfortunately.

      1. The New Wanderer*

        Concur – I’ve forgotten my mask before (because nearly two years of wearing one still doesn’t make it stick) and I would never hesitate to wear a free one if available. I’m vaxxed but breakthrough cases happen a lot with Omicron and vaxxed people are just as able to be carriers as anyone else.

        It’s only technically acceptable for them to decline if your store policy doesn’t require masks to be worn. Even if it were required it could put your personal safety at risk to enforce it, which is unacceptable for other reasons. I’m sorry you’re stuck with jerks like that.

        1. OyHiOh*

          I have a stack of masks in a drawer at work. Besides that, I have one in every bag I use, a couple in my car, and a couple in my partner’s car, in the pockets of both my winter jackets, and a few hanging on my closet door just in case one disappears from where it’s supposed to be. And I still need to scramble for one occasionally! The places that have a box by the door, I am eternally thankful for when I’m caught short.

    2. MT*

      It’s not something that I would personally find acceptable. Is there some sort if store policy about customer’s being required to wear a mask? I walk into my gym without a mask because they have a free mask box that I grab one out of by the check in desk and I haven’t been able to find disposable masks in stores. I personally want to be wearing a mask in public places but I also know they will ask me to leave if I tried to work out without a mask on.

    3. Rara Avis*

      In my area we have state and local masking requirements to fall back on. All retail establishments have signs on the door basically saying “no mask/no entry.” Is it always enforced? No, but I can understand that understaffed and overwhelmed grocery store clerks find that above their paygrade.

    4. Virtual Hugs*

      I’m really sorry you have to deal with this. There’s often no win here. If you get too insistent then they’ll tell your manager you’re rude. Or worse, they’ll breathe their unmasked virus laden breath on you, intentionally cough, or just raise their voice.

  66. an inquiry*

    I had this debate with friends…. are there companies out there that pay a decent salary, decent raises, decent benefits; etc in order to retain employees for the long term? I mean the company where you might be able to get slightly more elsewhere but your current position is best compensation overall. Employees stay just because they are compensated well.

    One friend is in such a position. They have grown with their job, could maybe get slightly more elsewhere but overall is a great company. Another friends says looking out for yourself means every 1% more in pay makes a difference.

    1. 867-5309*

      I know of several companies who do this and whose employees have been with them for years for that reason. While it was not a culture fit for me, one of the big automakers (and many of the automakers in general) are known for this – they give people new roles every couple of years for those who want them, pay is excellent, raise and bonus structure is good. Job titles are notoriously flat, which is the only negative.

      I would also say the company I am with now is this way.

      I disagree that “1% pay makes a difference” as a unilateral statement. Total compensation and culture of the company matter a great deal to overall happiness and contentment. An additional 1% raise but losing a week of a vacation would sure as heck not be a net-win for me, as an example.

      1. Fran Fine*

        + 1 to your last paragraph. I work at one such place that pays well, has really good benefits, has a nice company culture (for now), and I’m comfortable to stay put for now even though I know I could make more money working for a FAANG doing what I do (and I already earn $90k/year, so…not bad). However, those FAANG companies have horrible reputations with people who look like me, so I would never work for any of them – my peace of mind is equally as important to me as my salary.

    2. NaoNao*

      Totally. My just about to be former company was like this (as well as my Mega-Corp several jobs ago, which was known for having lifer employees due to the “Cadillac” benefits package and one of the few for-profit org pensions left in the US). The pay market rate but not much more, but the benefits and culture are very solid. WFH/hybrid is allowed, unlimited PTO for salaried people, raises aren’t anything to scream about but are reasonable, promote from within, wellness benefits, and best of all, in all honesty in a >300 company I haven’t met ONE jerk. That company had several employees retire in the last couple years after >25 years with the company, including Employee #2, who retired after over 30.

    3. BayCay*

      Yes, these unicorns do exist! I currently work at a land grant university and it’s the best job I’ve had ever. In my life. Point blank.

      Academia can go many ways but my department is amazing. The pay could be a tad better but I have lots of flexibility (negotiated working from home one day a week), great coworkers, a great boss, good benefits, including tuition assistance and money for personal development, all in an affordable college town.

      I could make A LOT more money in my field (marketing) if I looked elsewhere. But I know the chances of finding something exactly like this but with more money are pretty slim.

    4. LaDonna*

      I think beyond a great company that offers good pay/benefits/flexibility/the whole 9 years, it depends on your department, who oversees it, and your boss.

      For example, I work for a prestigious Fortune 100 company. I’m compensated very well, have great PTO, my boss lets me travel and work at the same time (even abroad, within reason of course. I can’t live on the seaside of Italy for 3 months a year. But 2 weeks? hey, why not.), and our director goes to bat for us when she sees something that isn’t right. We can work remote most of the week and no one monitors anything. The department is very much into professional growth and new opportunities for people, not only the analysts but managers too.

      My boss is exceptionally cool, but I know others are more stingy within the department. I’m not overworked and none of the team I manage is, but knowing some other departments and divisions are way overworked, and they don’t have the same remote work options as we do. Their turnover rate is super high compared to ours for this reason.

      So yes, it exists, but it’s hard to find and I’m lucky. I pretty much can never leave :)

    5. irene adler*

      There’s no ‘one-size-fits-all’ response to this.
      Sure, that 1% can make a difference when subsequent raises are based on a per cent of current salary and moving to a new job can garner a nice bump in salary. But, as others pointed out, other aspects can matter more- like increased PTO, or top-notch benefits or a great place to work.

      I debate this in my head all the time.

  67. SMH*

    Ah, so we recently discovered we had an employee go to a COVID Party, in order for her, her husband, and her son (who’s in his 20’s) to “finally” catch COVID. She did this in order to avoid getting vaccinated and they were all successful in catching COVID. And while that is annoying and just mind melting enough, it’s not what really annoyed me.

    For staff who have COVID or are having to quarantine, we’ve been allowing work from home hours to be helpful (if not then they can use sick time/PT). And for some reason, the thought of her, purposely getting COVID and then getting to just work from home for 2 weeks (which is how long it took for her to get a negative test) just annoys me. I know it’s petty but I think if you purposely got sick, then you should have to deal with losing sick/PT time instead of getting to work from home.

    2. ahhh*

      I’m truly flabbergasted. The nerve. While I personally (no debates please) believe everyone should get vaccinated, I understand it is a choice. But to put other people in harms way.

    3. Jaybee*

      Allowing her to work from home isn’t just a benefit for her, presumably it’s also helpful to others on her team or who rely on her work who might otherwise find it tough to go two weeks without her.

      Her actions are definitely very stupid but keep things in perspective. There’s no point in cutting your nose off to spite your face.

      1. JustaTech*

        Yeah, the WFH is to keep her *out* of the office for the safety of everyone else. Given this frankly dumb action, do you really think she would have stayed home those whole two weeks if it was costing her PTO? Or would she have found a way to fake a negative test and come in anyway?

        She really rolled the dice on just getting COVID (unvaccinated!) and it’s entirely possible that she (and her family) won’t know if they’re going to end up with Long COVID for a while.

    4. 867-5309*

      I know someone who did this and their mother and father are now both in the hospital, likely to die. This person believes if they would be allowed to give them vitamins to boost their immune system they would get better.

      While this is frustrating – and I share your sense of the unfairness in terms of how it is applied to work – for my own mental health and anxiety, I am meditating regularly on topics of grace and forgiveness because I cannot keep getting annoyed at my employer, coworkers and general populace who will not see reason/science.

      That does not offer a solution except to see that your feelings and frustration are valid.

    5. Rey*

      I hear your frustration, that you want their WFH pay to be denied. BUT, the logistics for how an employer tracks who has it, how they got it, whether their circumstances are good enough or not to warrant WFH, etc. would be a lot, so the the employer could decide not to approve any of these requests, meaning that people with COVID would still come to work. Also, to be honest, if they purposely got sick they can still lie about the circumstances and potentially get WFH pay, so either way, they get exactly what they want.

    6. fueled by coffee*

      UGH. On the one hand, yes, she should be able to work from home for 2 weeks because you absolutely do not want her anywhere near you (and using up sick days incentivizes people to come to work contagious anyway).

      But covid parties are dangerous nonsense. They used to be a thing for chickenpox because (1) there was no vaccine for chickenpox, (2) it’s much more dangerous to catch chickenpox as an adult than as a child, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, (3) a chickenpox infection confers lifelong immunity. We already know that people can catch covid twice, AND we have a vaccine that dramatically reduces covid severity. Why anyone would deliberately go out and catch covid is beyond me.

      As someone who was a child when the chickenpox vaccine came out, chickenpox parties ALSO got phased out, because we got the vax, and then we stopped getting chickenpox, and having watched my parents both deal with shingles I am *so glad* that they never sent me to a chickenpox party!

      1. Lady Danbury*

        My friend’s father caught covid in March 2020 and recovered fully. He caught it again in November 2020 and it killed him. Natural immunity clearly didn’t save him.

    7. Dark Macadamia*

      Working from home benefits all the coworkers who would otherwise be exposed, and I’d rather see her get a “perk” unfairly than have that option be taken away for everyone.

      She and her family are awful.

  68. StellaBella*

    I need work travel advice in the age of COVID-19.

    If it does not get cancelled because of COVID-19, I may have to go to a place in the Mediterranean near Lebanon mid February for 3 days. I am in Europe.

    What I need advice and tips on are the following:
    1. I have N95 masks and will also cover those with a cloth mask. And maybe a third paper mask.
    2. I have sanitiser, gloves, and wash my hands a lot.
    3. I am 3x vaxxed.
    4. I will do all the pre PCR tests etc.
    5. I have some slight health issues but am mostly healthy and have avoided COVID-19 now for 2 damn years.

    Aside from trying to distance, any tips on staying safe in the airport, on the plane (I don’t normally eat on planes because aside from one very fancy flight on Singapore Air, and a steward who kept giving me Singapore Slings ….airplane food is disgusting).

    Should I not turn the air flow thingy on? Should I? I think not but maybe I am wrong? Change clothes as soon as I arrive and shower?

    This will involve two flights there and back so four flights total.

    1. Spearmint*

      Honestly being triple vaxxed and wearing an N95 are the two biggest things you can do.

      I wouldn’t bother with gloves, changing clothes when you arrive, etc. Covid-19 is spread almost exclusively via air transmission and *not* surface transmission.

      On the plane itself, I’m not an expert but I recall reading an article about how airflow on planes is designed to minimize disease transmission, so I doubt turning the air flow on or off matters much either way.

        2. ForeverLurker*

          Experts advise turning your air on as high as it will go because you don’t want air sitting around you. You want it to move. Studies have also shown that window seats are marginally safer than aisle seats because you don’t have people walking past you.

    2. Admin of Sys*

      The airport is far more of a danger than the airplane – the airplane airflow goes through filters much more often than in a large building with many people. As Spearmint said, the most important bits are the n95 and vaccination. Make sure the mask fits well, and have extras to change into in case it gets compromised in some way.
      If you need to eat at the airport due to schedules, get your food to-go and find a place far away from other people, at an unused gate or something. But avoid being unmasked at the airport if you can.

      1. Hlao-roo*

        And when you do eat/drink, follow this procedure:
        (1) pull down your mask
        (2) take a bite of food/sip of water
        (3) pull up your mask
        (4) chew/swallow
        (5) repeat 1-4
        This sounds like a lot, but I did this on trains/planes/airports when I traveled and it’s not too bad once you get into a rhythm. This might not work great with an N95, so you could take off the N95 and wear a cloth or paper mask when you’re eating. That will be safer than taking off all masks entirely when eating.

        1. Alexis Rosay*

          Yes to all of this. Seconding that the airport is the most dangerous part of the trip. Depending on the airport, there may be a LOT of people around with a very…loose…interpretation of masking guidelines. If possible, don’t get to the airport too early, and if you have a long layover, look for an empty gate to sit at.

        2. RagingADHD*

          Whenever I am in a situation where I don’t feel safe unmasking to eat, I pull / tip my mask out from my chin rather than pulling it up and down, at least for finger foods, drinking from a straw, etc.

          It may not make a difference in safety, but it feels less awkward to me.

        3. StellaBella*

          This is great, thanks. I probably won’t eat/drink unless absolutely have to but if so this is good guidance.

      2. StellaBella*

        Thank you and yes, I have heard this about airports. I will plan to not dawdle in any of them.

    3. Schmitt*

      I ordered 3M N95 masks, the expensive kind, before my long-haul flight last year, for comfort: They have foam padding on the nose and the elastic goes around the back of the head. Compared to the cheaper masks I had been using before that, they were also much easier to breathe through.

      I did take an ear-loop mask as well for when I was eating/drinking because the back-of-the-head loop can’t really be half-taken-off for quick access. Having the ability to change it up was also nice.

    4. pancakes*

      Read up on the latest mask science. Cloth masks are better than nothing but they’re not very good. There was a good article in the Guardian in late December, “Some Covid masks are better than others. I know – I’m the Mask Nerd” by Aaron Collins.

      1. fhqwhgads*

        I think you misunderstood. This person said they plan to wear a cloth mask OVER an N95. The N95 is plenty protection.

    5. Sammy Keyes*

      Turn the airflow on! I read an article where a scientist advised that making the “cone of air” over yourself does help. Although as others have said, filtration on planes is pretty good, and the airport is definitely the riskier part of the journey.

      If you have a layover, or a long delay in the airport, I recommend finding the least trafficked corridor you can and sneaking a snack in the corner. Sometimes easier said than done.

    6. Pennyworth*

      A frequent business traveler from the pre-vaccination Covid phase reported strategies that included not eating or drinking on flights (so mask never removed), using bathrooms in remote corners of airports which had least traffic, and setting off wearing multiple layers of disposable gloves which he peeled off and discarded after he had touched surfaces.

  69. VT*

    I work in a public facing role and have for quite a few years. I’m use to getting upset customers and can usually handle them but I recently came in contact with someone who is next level and I can’t get my supervisor to do anything about it.

    The customer in question usually tries to push through their projects with increasingly aggressive emails even though they know what our policy is (no one gets to jump the line). My supervisor is CC’d on all these emails for some reason (she never chimes in) and my supervisor told me I can ignore these email requests if I wish. So I do until the customer goes above my supervisor and I get an email telling me to handle the customer’s project asap from my grandboss or higher.

    The last set of emails from this customer is the worst yet. They began in their usual fashion of trying to escalate their project through a series of email. Then it devolved into personally calling me out for a requirement that I hold them to, which they were *never* held to before I got there (I did not invent this requirement, it’s really common in this industry, this employer has been lax about requiring it in the past but the paperwork says we need it). This applicant was trying to call a meeting with my supervisor etc over this requirement/me with increasingly desperate emails, all of which my supervisor ignored.

    I talked to my supervisor a few days later and I told her I felt attacked and borderline abused by this customer and I thought my supervisor needed to actually respond to this customer, telling them how inappropriate they were being. My supervisor was non-committal and again reiterated that I can ignore these outrageous requests/emails from the customer.

    I don’t dwell much on these emails and can simply ignore them but the problem comes when the customer escalates them above my supervisor. Some people in my group have been reprimanded for not answering customers when my grandboss or above is continually brought into the email chain. I’m worried that will happen here to me if I just ignore this customer. Any advice? I do have a manager above my supervisor who has not been brought into the conversation.

    1. Sloanicota*

      Get your supervisor’s instructions in writing please!! You may need it later to show you were doing as you were told. I don’t mind being the “fall guy” to customers sometimes but I’m not going to risk my job over it if they escalate to my grand boss later.

      1. Pennyworth*

        If you can’t get the instructions in writing, just forward each email you are ignoring to your supervisor
        “FYI – no response , per your instructions to me of x date.”

    2. Not A Manager*

      It sounds like your supervisor is unintentionally tossing you under the bus. At a minimum, I would document very clearly that your supervisor TOLD you not to respond to those emails, and if they also told you to adhere to company policy in all cases, be sure that’s documented as well.

      If possible, I think you should pro-actively ensure that your upper-level manager and grandboss are at least aware of the instructions you’ve been given. Ideally, you could specifically communicate with grandboss or whoever is intervening to prioritize these projects. When it happens again, loop them in on the previous process and ask them if they want you to handle this particular client differently in the future.

  70. Saddened*

    I’m curious if anyone has advice if anyone thinks I should apologize to my manager after tearing up at work… we are having financial difficulties at home with my husband off work indefinitely pending surgery that will be a year or two away.

    I (30F) always took the bus to work but now I can’t afford even that – so I walk anywhere from 25-40 minutes to get to work in all forms of weather. Lately the weather has been -30C to -40C with colder windchill. I have no choice but to walk… my family sees picking me up as an inconvenience. I am relatively warm when walking but my eyes are exposed and my breath causes significant ice buildup around my eyes and hair, my mask is literally frozen to me when I arrive.

    I’ve always kept an upbeat attitude and pretended it was just because I like the exercise. But I can’t pretend anymore… I cry every morning when getting dressed because it just doesn’t feel fair. But for the most part I try to crack a smile when people are shocked that I’m still walking in this.

    Today was different. It was almost -50C windchill and I was running late. My manager saw me peeling off my layers and asked if I walked… replying with “that’s just silly” when I confirmed. I felt compelled to say that it was because I don’t have bus fare – I had to repeat myself for her to hear and that is when my voice broke. I leaned forward to brush the tears out of my eyes and when I looked up she was gone. I wish she never brought it up so I could have pretended everything was fine.

    I haven’t seen her again today but I feel like she may have interpreted it as me being dramatic or trying to manipulate her. Or would that make too big a deal out of it?

    I’m also wondering if there is a tactful way to ask coworkers to stop making comments about how bad they feel that I’m walking… it cuts deep right now and none have never offered a ride despite driving past my house. I’d rather they not throw it in my face if they aren’t offering to help.

    1. Jaybee*

      Definitely do not apologize to your manager. Most likey what happened is she realized she had made a thoughtless and cruel comment, and was embarrassed. Not everyone handles situations like that with grace unfortunately. But if she is, for some reason, stewing over you having the “nerve” to be upset in that situation, you don’t want to reinforce that by apologizing. I really want you to take this in: a reasonable person will not assume that you are crying to manipulate them.

      I’ll be honest, your situation overall sounds terrible and untenable. Next time a coworker tells you they feel bad, ask if they’ll pick you up, then. Best case scenario they will agree. Worst case scenario you have made it clear how obnoxious they are being.

    2. Sloanicota*

      I am so sorry. I hope you can find a way to ask for help. Especially if you are only seeking a ride for the rest of winter, or the funds for a bus during the coldest days, I really believe family/friends/coworkers will step up if asked. People will likely not volunteer but this is a crisis. Good luck to you.

    3. A Simple Narwhal*

      Oh my gosh I am so sorry you are in this position! You have nothing to apologize for – if anything, your boss probably felt ashamed that they had been pestering you about something you were doing out of financial difficulty. Are there any assistance you could apply for? I don’t want to make more work for you in an already difficult time, but you might be eligible for something to help make ends meet.

      Also, I know your coworkers haven’t offered you a ride, but have you tried asking for one? They might not know you want/need one but would gladly give one if asked.

    4. NaoNao*

      A bit off topic, but have you talked to your family about this?!? It sounds like you’re the breadwinner or a major contributor to finances and unless you’re talking about extended family in the area, it seems really off and crappy that family living in your home and being taken care of by you and reaping the benefits of your money are not picking you up!

      I’d also consider asking a coworker to carpool, if you’re able to kick in gas money. I’d personally probably never offer a coworker a ride out of nowhere, especially if they were acting like they “just like walking!” so you might have to find the friendliest face and confess or respond “Actually I could really use a ride, I’m freezing my butt off out there!”

      I don’t think they’re rubbing it in your face, but they’re likely just taking you at your word here.

      One thing to consider also is asking to WFH is that’s a thing, until weather is better. There were a couple awful weather days (either scorching heat or scary winds/cold/ice) where I told my boss “I’m sorry, the bus + walking just isn’t happening today” and they totally got it.

      1. WellRed*

        Seriously! Also, some areas have free or discounted bus passes if you meet requirements. I’m shocked none of your coworkers has offered a ride.

    6. Purple Cat*

      {{hugs}}
      You absolutely do not need to apologize to your manager for anything. You did nothing wrong.
      Have you looked into other options for help?
      1 – ASK one of your coworkers if you could get a ride as opposed to waiting for them to offer.
      2 – Looked into financial aid resources from your county/state/country? If you can’t afford bus fare, it seems like you might be within salary guidelines for public assistance.
      In short, don’t assume other people don’t want to help, but that perhaps they’re not really sure what you need and/or are afraid to offer. This is obviously (rightly) an emotional topic for you and they might be scared to butt in.

    7. Chili pepper Attitude*

      Hey Saddened! How are you doing?
      I’d be happy to help with a bus pass. I reached out to Alison and she said that if you reach out to her, she can help us connect. I hope you will reach out! I’ve been there and now have the means to help so would love to!

      Best to you.

  71. Purple Penguin*

    Would anyone with experience independent contracting (i.e. not through an agency) in the US for one of the FAANGs share how you decided your negotiation parameters and/or how your contract went overall?

    I’m considering a year contract with a FAANG for the niche skillset that I offer but I’ve never negotiated with such companies before and have no idea how to judge what my overhead would be nor where to look for help.

    1. 867-5309*

      What is your field?

      I don’t have overhead, exactly, when I freelance/consult because my work is professional services. When thinking about your rate, keep in mind you will be paying for your own employer tax, health insurance and the like, and take that into account when determining your raise… Additionally, I include a cause for either person to back out of the contract (usually with 30 days notice), clearly state an agreed to hours worked weekly (vs. hourly rate only) if it is my only client or I anticipate they will be demanding, and I outline whether or not it is a flat monthly rate and if it’s not, whether or not I will submit hours with my billing.

      1. 867-5309*

        For the FAANG – determine what you are willing to concede around non-competes. For how long until you are willing to wait to do similar work at a competitor and what defines a competitor.

      2. Purple Penguin*

        Super helpful, thank you!

        I’m a social scientist with expertise on risk and disaster. I think the work would fall under R&D.

  72. Cold Fish*

    Just ranting – you can skip over if you’d rather.
    It is just one of those days my brain is just not working. I have to read every email 4-5 times just to understand what I’m being asked. I have several fairly easy tasks to do today but I just can’t think of how to begin them, second guessing myself, reordering priority so nothing is getting done. I have the attention span of a gnat. I really hope it’s just because I haven’t been sleeping well this week and that I’m not getting sick. It would be so much better to just go home and start fresh on Monday (I could probably do everything I need to do today within two hours) but “butts in seats” mentality rules around here. It’s days like today that I wish we hadn’t gone to a paperless office. It would be a great day to work on backed up filing or some other busywork task.
    End rant. Sorry for the pity party.

    1. Anonymous Luddite*

      I feel your pain, Cold Fish.
      Be gentle with yourself, have a little more water, and get some rest this weekend.

    2. JustaTech*

      Everyone gets to throw themselves a pity party every once in a while.

      Maybe a cup of tea/coffee/water will help shake the cobwebs loose?

  73. Empress Matilda*

    How do you write a reference for a “meh” employee?

    I had someone reporting to me on a contract in 2021; her contract is now finished and she’s looking for work. She has asked me to fill out a reference on ZipRecruiter, which I’m happy to do, but I don’t know what to say! Her work was mostly just average, occasionally dipping a bit below average, but nothing terrible. She did what she was asked to do – most of the time; she asked clarifying questions when she didn’t understand – sometimes; she kept the status spreadsheet up to date – when I asked her to update it. If I had a permanent position available I would invite her to apply out of courtesy, but I don’t expect she would be the successful candidate.

    I do want to help her out – I’m not trying to tank her chances at a new job. I’m not going to lie and say she’s the best employee I’ve ever had, but at the same time I don’t think the truth will be especially helpful either. So, what’s the best way to convey this on ZipRecruiter?

    (Side note, I’m fine with giving a lukewarm reference if someone calls me related to a specific position – that will allow me to speak with a bit more nuance. It’s just the general version that I’m struggling with here.)

    1. Anonymous Luddite*

      I suppose the old line of “You’ll be lucky to get this person to work for you” won’t cut it?

    2. J.B.*

      Tell her you can’t. I don’t think that meh helps here and probably isn’t the way people would do real reference checks.

    3. calonkat*

      Could you discuss with her what you might be willing to say and see if she still wanted you as a reference?

      “Employee needs strong supervision but was competent overall in job performance.”

      1. pancakes*

        Or “So-and-so is competent overall. She keeps files updated as requested and asks for clarification when needed.”

  74. Hattie McDoogal*

    Has anyone ever given notice at a job and then gotten sick/had to take time off during the notice period? Do you think it negatively impacted things like future references from your managers? This is really a hypothetical question at this point, but I can see myself forcing myself to come in sick during a notice period (in the before times, anyway).

    1. Sloanicota*

      In the before times I definitely felt obligated to come in with a nasty cold because I had only given two week’s notice. I realize it’s standard but I felt bad leaving the company a bit in the lurch and wasn’t willing to extend, so I came in sick. I feel like they would have been justified in complaining otherwise or singing my reference, although I’m not sure how rational that was.

    2. The Finest Muffins and Bagels*

      I did–I got a gnarly 100.4 fever the last week of my notice, and ended up working through most of it because I only had that week to train my replacement. It sucked. If I were to do it over again I would have probably just taken at least a day or two off to rest/recover.

    3. Finance in Academia*

      I think it’s helpful to remember that *reasonable* employers don’t hold things like this against employees.
      It’s going to be clear in a lot of different ways if someone is slacking off in their notice period and not being helpful for any transition issues, etc. Getting sick is human and outside your control so *shouldn’t* be held against you.

  75. It's All Elementary*

    My daughter is graduating with a graphics design degree in May. What advice would you graphics design hiring managers suggest to her?

    1. 867-5309*

      Have an online portfolio and include a link to it in her resume. We require this for every graphics position for which we hire.

      1. It's All Elementary*

        Thank you. She does have this and has already had some good feedback from a couple of potential employers.

    2. Filosofickle*

      Be able to speak to the goals and problems solved in each project. Young designers often either can’t describe their work well or tend to talk about their work in terms of what’s visually interesting versus how design achieved an objective. Design is a process and a tool for a client, not an outcome all on its own.

  76. Kat Maps*

    Hello, and happy Friday! I have a question for the community about interviewing for a job that I already have…

    Some back story and context — about 9 months ago I was hired into a newly created, contract role. My manager wants me to go full-time. Since this is a unionized position, union rules stipulate that when a position goes from contract to full-time, the position has to be re-posted externally. I will have to re-apply and interview for the job I’ve been doing for the past 9 months. My manager has already discussed with me the process, and he made it clear that while I would likely be his ideal candidate, it’s a panel interview with 2 other people I’ve never met before who would have the power to reject my candidacy if they don’t think I’m the best candidate.

    My biggest question is, when it comes to the interview, normally I have some general questions that I like to ask the interviewers about workplace culture, qualities they’re looking for in successful applicants, etc. But having already worked there, I think that most of the questions I’d normally ask have already been answered. Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can go about navigating this interview, especially when it’s time for me ask the panel some questions?

    1. 867-5309*

      What does success in this role look like in 12 months? 24 months? What challenges have others experienced when moving from a contract to full-time position in the organization?

    2. I'd Prefer Not To*

      “Based on my performance in this position so far, what are some coachable or learning opportunities you might suggest so that I can continue to grow?”

      My personal favorite question is: “How can I make your job easier?”

      1. Cj*

        I want ask that because it sounds like you’re asking what you can improve on, and with two other people on the panel that doesn’t seem like a good idea.

  77. BackOnTheMarket*

    Looking for some advice for upcoming interviews about why I am looking for a new job. The short and most truthful answer: I do not have enough vacation time at my current job (which is part of a larger cultural fit issue and differences in perception of what constitutes a healthy work-life balance). A big part of me wants to be honest when I’m interviewing because I want to make sure I do not get into another situation that is not a great cultural fit. But I don’t think being direct about the lack of vacation time and the expectations to work while on vacation would be a great impression in an interview. I would love any suggestions with wording that can convey this idea without sounding lazy!

    1. Sloanicota*

      I wouldn’t bring that up unfortunately but I might say something about looking for greater flexibility or more work life balance

    2. The Finest Muffins and Bagels*

      I would recommend using the term “work/life balance.” As in, “My current position does not offer me a good work/life balance, and I am looking for a position with a company culture that can support that better. I’m passionate about/good at my job but my time outside of work is also important to me.” I think it makes a nod to the importance of having time to yourself outside of work without sounding lazy. I was straight up about this when I interviewed for my current position–one of my questions was “Am I expected to be checking my email while I’m on vacation?” Thankfully the manager for the position said she never did, though another interviewer shared that she tended to but because she likes her position. I also negotiated for an additional week of PTO.

      1. BackOnTheMarket*

        Thanks, I’ve been thinking about the “work-life balance” line a bit too. I just hope it doesn’t come off as millenial-entitled buzzwordy! I’m hoping I’ll be able to follow the lead of the interviewer a bit here but I know I should be prepared with an answer to this pretty standard question.

        1. calonkat*

          I don’t think it’s a millennial-entitled thing, I promise you that many people of all ages have changed careers due to unreasonable work/life separation. We’ve just got a way to describe it now, whereas before it took a whole explanation or just avoiding the conversation at all because of COURSE your employer would expect access to you 24/7.

          Having the ability to be off work and actually be off work is not a request that’s “entitled” in most jobs.

        3. irene adler*

          I’ve never had a bad response to any comment I’ve made regarding work/life balance during interviews.
          In fact, interviewers are quick to point out the ways their company strives to respect work/life balance.
          It is something any good employer will appreciate.

    3. Colette*

      How do you handle coverage for people who are on vacation?
      How often are people able to completely disconnect on vacation?
      How much vacation time do people typically take?

      (I wouldn’t ask all of these, but you can start with one and see where the conversation goes.)

    4. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Can you just say that the benefits package at the old job wasn’t competitive, and that’s why you’ve been looking for a new position.

    5. BackOnTheMarket*

      Thanks for all the thoughts! I am actually a Gen-Xer myself so maybe that’s why this is so easy for me to set boundaries to begin with.

  78. The Finest Muffins and Bagels*

    Looking for advice on how to ask my boss about the EOY bonus that’s written into my contract. I started my job in June of last year, and my offer letter/contract listed both my salary and a potential for a bonus as a percentage of my salary, which would be calculated based on performance metrics. But nowhere is there listed when it would be awarded. I assume they are looking at those metrics now, but I have never worked a job that had a bonus potential before. I would like to know if/when bonuses will be awarded but I am worried about sounding money grubby or being too forward. When are EOY bonuses usually awarded? Or does anyone have some language I could use to ask my boss about the bonus?

    1. 867-5309*

      Usually they are awarded in February or March, in my experience at larger companies. Some smaller companies issue them in January. I asked this outright during my interview but I am pretty senior so it made sense – my bonus comp is a percentage of my total. I think you can wait until the end of this month and then just casually ask when bonus is determined – or ask a coworker who has been there longer.

    2. BackOnTheMarket*

      Is there a coworker you can ask? Otherwise, I guess depending on your relatioship with your manager, I would not think it is a big deal to just ask directly.
      We got notified of our annual bonus usually in February, paid in March, at my last job (a Fortune 50 company).

    3. Wordybird*

      I work for a small company that pays out our EOY bonus the last payday of the calendar year. I have found it difficult to find out how our EOY bonus is calculated (several new coworkers and the ones with tenure don’t seem to know/care) as my bonus the last 2 years has not been much more than my first year despite our revenue skyrocketing in between but I’m hoping my monthly 1:1 with my manager will clear this up. While my hiring paperwork specifies that my role receives an annual bonus, it doesn’t specify more than that, and I didn’t think to ask for details when I was hired.

  79. Meow*

    So I work in government and here everyone’s salary is public record. On the internet with our full names attached. So there’s no mystery of what everyone makes if you choose to look.

    We’ve hired a bunch of new people, and now that their salary data is public, I can see all but one make significantly more than me, even someone who came in with no experience. (I’ve been here for nearly 6 years) I know the usual advice is not to compare to coworkers when asking for a raise, but isn’t this unarguably unfair?

    I was wondering what leverage I have to negotiate with this. I am also the only woman on my team, but… should I really go there? Despite my relative pay, my job still pays very good for the area, and I haven’t been able to find anything else that pays this well, so I’m not ready to walk out or risk my job arguing. But it’s still BS I’m making so much less than everyone else.

    1. J.B.*

      See if your state hr has a fairness requirement and put analysis together for your boss. If you have a good relationship don’t blindsided but I didn’t suffer from bringing it up.

    2. I'm just here for the cats*

      Are the new people in the same/ similar role than you? It really sucks because I’ve been at my state job for 2 years. I was full time but split between 2 areas and recently moved full time to just one area. I got a slight bump up in pay, which I figured was because my salary had been split between 2 departments and now wasn’t. When we started interviewing for the second person (who actually won’t be split between departments just a part time with our area) I found out that they will be paid the exact same as I will. I felt like this wasnt right being I have more experience and am technically senior.

    3. CatCat*

      If you have a union, go to them first.

      Otherwise, I think you need to know the HR rules about this. At ex-job, they would only bring me up in pay if I had an outside offer. It was the policy set by larger government forces than my manager. Bizarro. (Went about how you might imagine. Looked for and found a new job, which is why ex-job is now EX.)

      You can ask your manager, “I noticed the new hires are being paid $X. What do I need to do to earn a raise to that level?”

      1. Meow*

        We have a union but I can’t find anything about fair pay in their terms.

        Unfortunately we really don’t have much of a system to receive merit increases based on performance, so I can’t even earn my way up, unless I get promoted (which is not necessarily what I want to do because it would be an entirely different position). I was actually supposed to receive some merit increase to match the increased salary for new hires, but when I brought it up 6 months later, they told me all merit increases were canceled for Covid. Guess it wouldn’t hurt to bring it up again.

    4. just another bureaucrat*

      Are they in your pay band? Are you doing the same kind of work?

      Assuming both of these are true I’d look to see if you have an equity pay evaluation? Or if you are doing work that is above that level something like a hay study. These might be in a union contract or in the state handbook if you have that. But it’s really likely if if you’re at a state level you’ve got one of those tools (if it’s a blue state I’d be shocked if you didn’t have it, if you’re a red state it’s still likely but not shocking to not have them).

      If you have a good relationship with your boss I’d start there. If you don’t I’d start with your union. Otherwise I’d go to your HR person. If none of those I’d go to any kind of equal opportunity board.

    5. Lizy*

      Uh… same job, new people, males, and they all make more than you? YES, go there! It doesn’t mean it has to her aggressive – “hey, Boss, I noticed that bob and John and Jim all make X while I make X-100. It’s actually illegal for companies to pay different based on gender; we could get in serious trouble for this! I’m sure it’s not intentional, but we should probably address this.”

      Good luck!

  80. Employed Minion*

    I’m wondering how to update my resume when my company was purchased by another. How do I write this on my resume? Do I list it like a new job?

    1. 867-5309*

      If you’re staying with the company, you could do it one of two ways:

      Falcon Company, Marketing Manager, 01/2021-present
      Sparrow Company (purchased by Falcon Company), Marketing Manager 01/2020-01/2021

      -OR-

      Sparrow Company (now part of Falcon Company)

      -OR-

      Just list the new company and in a place like LinkedIn, you can put them as two separate roles at the same company for clarity.

  81. Hmmm*

    Everyone knows that salaries are up right now. Given how things are with covid, economy etc… is it better to stay in a job that has security with average salary and benefits

    or

    switch jobs where you don’t know the company’s security (basically because you’re not an insider yet) but get better pay and benefits

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      What does “security” mean here? I’ve seen layoffs in pretty much every industry. I mean, obviously, a new startup is less stable than a long-established company, but if you see a good opportunity at another long-established company that you just don’t know as well, you should apply for it.

      1. Fran Fine*

        This. Go for the job you feel will give you the most satisfaction in the long run. If that happens to be the place that pays more and has better benefits, but you’re unsure of their security, well, so be it. Nothing is promised and everyone is expendable, so don’t make career decisions based on some false sense of stability/security.

    2. Lunch Eating Mid Manager*

      I think it depends greatly on your personal situation and what your needs at home are. For example if you are planning to start a family soon, or have a baby/very young children, I’d vote for security. If you have older kids and college costs are looming, I’d vote more pay.

      1. I'm just here for the cats*

        Ditto. This should be a right that everyone has, regardless if you are the birth parent or not.

        1. JustaTech*

          Agree. But if I had to pick, it’s a retention tool, because otherwise the new parent will likely have to quit because new children (infants or older adoptees) need a huge amount of care and attention and you can’t just pop them in a kennel and go back to work.

          So if you want your employee back after they have a new child, give them paid parental leave.

    2. pancakes*

      I’ll link to some articles about this in a separate reply, because I think it’s useful to look at what other wealthy countries do with regard to questions like this rather than just ask individuals what they think. Out of 41 countries tracked in an Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) report on this subject, the US is the only country that doesn’t mandate paid parental leave.

      1. Peter*

        Which means that in most countries it is neither a retention tool nor an earned benefit, it is a tax on employment.
        I’m not saying that’s fair or equitable, but it might help others understand why employers might not choose to pay parental leave in the USA. It also helps explain the gender pay gap (or rather the motherhood pay gap)

        1. pancakes*

          It’s quite incomplete to look at it in that light without talking about the return on the investment. From an article I link to in a separate reply:

          “. . . the returns on investment in paid leave are enormous. This is because paid family medical leave supports women – who disproportionately shoulder caregiving responsibilities – to stay economically active, and women are a powerful engine of economic growth. The OECD reported in 2015 that equalizing women’s and men’s labor force participation rates by 2030 would result in a 12 percent boost to GDP across high-income countries. In the U.S., this would be the equivalent of $2.64 trillion per year. Other estimates are even higher. Leading business consultants at McKinsey estimated that by 2025 the U.S. could add another $4.3 trillion to annual GDP by closing the gender gaps in the workforce – an increase that could far more than fund all spending bills under consideration. . . . Past research has shown that the U.S.’s lack of ‘family-friendly policies’ – in particular, paid leave – drives the gender gap and was responsible for nearly a third of the U.S. decline in female labor force participation from 1990 to 2010, when it fell from sixth-highest among 22 OECD countries to 17th.”

  83. ptolover*

    After a 3 year tenure at my company, you’re allowed to roll over up to 40 hours of PTO. I hit my 3 year mark in 2021, and spent the year planning to roll over these 4o hours to 2022. I skipped two small trips in 2021 in order to save this week off.

    Earlier this week, it was announced that our company is adopting an unlimited PTO program. Any accrued or rolled-over PTO is now non-existent; additionally, this PTO will not be paid out or reimbursed in any way. While this program is incredible, and I am absolutely grateful to work for a company that strives to be progressive in many ways, I can’t help but feel somewhat “stiffed” on this deal. I missed out on a whole week of time off while my coworkers (particularly those with the company less than 3 years) did not. A payout or something similar would be appreciated – more for the principle of the matter than anything.

    Am I wrong to be a little miffed here?

    1. 867-5309*

      “Unlimited PTO” was created for the sole purpose of removing liability from payouts from the books. You are right to be miffed.

    2. I'm just here for the cats*

      I can understand that you are miffed. I think I would just make sure that you can use that time this year. I think Allison has mentioned before that typically when there is unlimited PTO people end up using less than if you had a set amount. I would just make sure you use what you would have normally gotten this year along with what you would have rolled over.
      So if you would have had 40 hours rolled over on top of your 40 hours take the full 80 hours. And I would push back if management says you can’t/ shouldn’t use that much.

    3. A Simple Narwhal*

      You totally have a right to be miffed! You made a plan based around the idea of sacrificing then to reap the benefits now, and they swiped that away from you after you did the sacrificing. I’m not sure you’ll get any headway in asking for a payout, but I think you’d be well within reason to tell your manager your frustration, and that you’ll definitely be taking extra vacation time this year to make up for it.

      I mean it sucks that you lost out on vacations last year, but with unlimited vacation time you won’t have to miss out on any this year! Just make sure that you actually take your time off, and try and take as much off as you can!

    4. Purple Cat*

      It’s human, you’re miffed because new employees are getting a benefit before you did.
      But the company did a good thing (yes I know it’s primarily for their own financial benefit, but it’s also good for employees).
      The good news is you can still go on the extra vacation time in 2022.
      My company changed our PTO to one combined bank instead of separate vacation and sick time. They did pay out the vacation time we would have been allowed to carry over, but conveniently forgot about the carryover sick time we were all losing :(

      1. ptolover*

        Where in my post did I say anything about being upset that new employees get something before me? I’m only upset that I could have had 5 days off last year, and I’m not getting anything to show for it now.

        1. Purple Cat*

          It’s the flip side of the coin, you’re upset they didn’t have to wait for this extra time the way you did.
          Sorry for paraphrasing.

    5. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

      Take 40 hours more than you would have otherwise under the unlimited program. If eyebrows are raised explain why.

  84. Total lack of focus*

    Anyone know who won the Worst boss of the year for 2021? Was it ever posted. I don’t remember seeing it and when I search it doesn’t come up.

    1. Kimmy Schmidt*

      Alison accidentally included a letter from a “bad boss” who wrote in themselves, which she doesn’t normally do to encourage people to keep asking questions. She decided not to post the final results of the polls because of this and took it down.

    2. A Simple Narwhal*

      I believe someone asked a few weeks ago and Alison said that while technically the “my employee wasn’t nice enough when they didn’t get paid” boss won, she typically doesn’t allow those letters to qualify, since it would discourage people from writing in out of fear of being labeled “worst boss of the year”. She was so busy that she didn’t remember that the boss themselves wrote in and that letter never should have been in the running in the first place, so she quietly pulled the contest results down.

  85. Back to fulltime?*

    Help please!

    I’m a little panicked. I have been debating whether to look for part time work, and I just saw posted a full time position for which I’m pretty well qualified, though it’d be a stretch. Problem is, I haven’t been working fulltime in a decade, and I suffer chronic fatigue. I literally am not sure if I can do full time work anymore.

    I’m going to apply, and once I know more about it, maybe I can work out part time or hiring two people for this or any other solution.

    But let’s say the only option is full time. How do I even know if I can do this? My spouse thinks I have imposter syndrome. I think I’m accurately assessing my ability and health.

    Ideas? Thank you!

    1. Back to fulltime?*

      (sorry, the “panicked” is because applications are due tomorrow and I literally just heard about it. I wish I had time to think more.)

    2. 867-5309*

      I would not apply hoping they will work something out for part time or hiring two people unless the work is incredibly in demand/niche. It is unfair to you and them.

      I don’t know that we as the anonymous internet can know if you can do the job… Is part of work from home so that when you are experiencing symptoms there is some flexibility? Does the work you do generally offer flexibility so you can work as you feel up to it throughout the day/evening? Imposter syndrome applies more to ability, which I’m not hearing from your letter…

      1. Back to fulltime?*

        The work is in fact very niche and I’m particularly well qualified. I figure it can’t hurt to apply. I promise I won’t waste their time if I determine I can’t do it.

        I’m asking more, how do I assess whether I can still do this? 10 years ago, I certainly could have, but my energy levels have declined. I have bad days. I think a lot depends on how independent this would be? How often I’m working on my own versus in meetings?

        What questions should I be thinking about?

        1. 867-5309*

          You could ask questions about flexibility, work from home/flex schedule, vacation time, general culture (e.g., “I appreciate my work-life balance. Can you tell me how the organization approaches time off, work outside of business hours, etc.?). That could help you assess from a health perspective.

          1. 867-5309*

            And this is a fair question to ask up front in a phone screen so you would get an answer quickly.

    3. A Simple Narwhal*

      Would you be able to work full time with a flexible schedule? Like if it was remote and you could work in chunks of time and rest in between as needed? Because if you think you could make it work with the proper accommodations, then I don’t think it’s a problem to apply. In general it’s not a problem to apply for a job if it sounds interesting and you want to find out more information about it. If it doesn’t fit, well, that’s part of the application/interview process.

      I don’t know the full extent of your condition or the job, so apologies if I’m completely off-base!

      1. Back to fulltime?*

        I do think I could do 40 hours if I’m allowed to spread them out mostly as I like, with some limited scheduled meetings.

    4. calonkat*

      Apply!!! That gives you more time.

      Even if you decide to withdraw, you won’t have that option if you don’t apply!

  86. Cafe au Lait*

    Yesterday I had a meeting with the #2 person in my organization. While I’ve been here for 9 years, I’m still working an entry level position with entry level duties. In our meeting, the associate director said this about me:

    * I have good ideas.
    * She feels safe discussing her emotions behind ideas and issues facing my organization because–
    * I approach questions with curiosity rather than adversity. (It’s becoming a cultural issue at my institution).
    * She feels I could take my leadership skills further.
    * If I wanted to move into an administration level position, she could see me doing it.

    Does anyone have an idea how I could capitalize on her comments? The #2 person in my organization sees the value I add and wants me to do more of it.

    2. Nesprin*

      Email back: Thank you so much for meeting with me, and your support! I’d love to talk sometime soon about how I can advance and what opportunities you see for me.

  87. MissBaudelaire*

    I have a lady I manage, who I have had a few issues with in the past. We work with doctors, and she can never stay to the end of a clinic. She hates working two days in a row. She trained in, then immediately cut her availability. We worked around all that, and she does fine work. I’ve had no complaints about her from the providers she works for.

    She approached me and asked to train under more physicians, and that way she could get more hours.

    The thing is, she hasn’t really shown me she can handle what she has. She misses two clinics a month through various things, like traffic court and her daughter coming to visit. She doesn’t like working two days in a row, so I really don’t know what more I can give her for hours. She said that she wants to have that training so when her regular physicians are out of office, she can still work and get paid.

    It doesn’t really work that way, and she’d only get those hours if there was another person who did our job who couldn’t cover. So that plan is not likely to work out for her the way that she anticipates.

    She also struggled with training. She needed things explained to her multiple times in multiple ways, argued about things, worried about things that didn’t need to be worried about. Again, she does fine in her clinics, and I don’t mind explaining things multiple ways. Everyone has a different way to learn! But no one is available to give her the kind of training she really needs to do well with other providers.

    I don’t like discouraging people, and I believe that the best way for anyone to grow is to be challenged. I just don’t want to set her up to fail, and I really don’t want to assign her hours to have her pop up with the old song and dance about why she can’t possibly be expected to work them.

    1. Anonymous for This One*

      As a manager who has had a number of tough conversations lately, I think it would be appropriate to schedule a talk with her and say, “You do fine work when you’re here, but I have not seen that you can consistently handle the hours we assign you now. I’d like to see improvement in attendance/availability on a consistent basis for at least X months before I can consider assigning you more.”

    2. Kathenus*

      I think you put it all really well right here, and all the talking points you need for her are in your post. Be honest about her current lack of flexibility being a concern, as well as what she’d need to achieve to be considered for more training in the future. You’ve already got this!

    3. The teapots are on fire*

      I would also suggest checking in with the doctors she currently works for to see if she is really “doing fine” for them. She might not be.

    4. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

      Part of “doing fine” at a job is the actual content, but availability is also part of the job role in this case. Approach it like that and in fact she is ‘underperforming’ in that aspect. She wants to have her cake and eat it- training to work with different doctors so that she can pick up a different shift when she needs it, but in return isn’t giving giving needed flexibility.

      Missing two shifts a month due to things like “traffic court” and not wanting to work 2 days in a row seem like dealbreakers in this kind of job. I’d be having the conversation about “this is what we need from you; can you do it” and expect improvement before thinking about extending what she works on!

  88. Jessica Ganschen*

    At my job, I’m currently a contingent/temp, hired through another company, but my manager has told me that he’s working on getting authorization to create an FTE role on our team specifically for me. I’m very excited as it’s likely going to be for better pay and benefits, but I’m not sure, because I haven’t actually asked yet. That’s mostly because I’m a little nervous about getting my hopes up if it’s going to be a long timeline getting it processed or if it falls through for whatever reason. Should I start asking questions now about what the timeline looks like and what would change with the FTE vs. contingent, or is it okay to let it ride until my manager has come to me with a few more updates? And when I do ask him questions, what should they be about, generally?

    1. calonkat*

      There is not a thing wrong with asking what the timeline looks like! Approach it just like you did here.
      “Manager, I’m excited about the possibility of being hired here. Can you give me a general idea of how long it might take to know any answers?”
      And just go from there. There’s nothing wrong or unexpected about wanting to be able to plan for your future! And temps are often wanting full time employment, so it would be reasonable to want to know if you should turn down other job offers.

    2. Anon for this*

      Where I work temps often have higher salaries than the employees because they don’t get benefits. So you should definitely ask for details. And I have found the timelines for things like this are really long because of the justifications/approvals needed for new FTE. So don’t expect it to be quick, but check on progress on a regular basis to be sure it is actually being worked.

  89. Tangy Tangerine*

    I am on a long maternity leave, which is typical in my country. I had a package delivered to my office by mistake and so went to meet my new boss (hired after I left) for the first time.

    Tldr is that we didn’t have a personal rapport. She works the same job as me, only with some added managerial duties. She seemed dismissive of the work I do and said she hadn’t seen the instruction manuals I wrote up for various tasks before I left. Which is fine, I mainly brought it up to ask if she was updating them. I guess she won’t be. I asked her about how the workload has fluctuated (specially the number of tasks that come through, stats which you can see from the platform we use). She said she didn’t know.

    I shouldn’t judge her based on just this one talk, right? I have no idea what she is like as an actual manager. But this is making me not want to go back.

    1. calonkat*

      Maybe she was busy? Surprised to see you and didn’t want you “working” on leave?

      You could use freshen up your resume if you think you might want a different job, but I’d just wait and see how it goes when you return.

      1. Tangy Tangerine*

        Oh, sorry, should’ve specified I don’t have a key active to the office since I’m still on leave, so I emailed ahead of time about swinging by and she said, “Great! Let’s have coffee in the break space and chat,” which is indeed what we did. I didn’t surprise her. I wonder if the chat came off as me interviewing her, which wasn’t my intention, but I am passionate about my job and being with the baby has made me miss some aspects of it.

        1. calonkat*

          Well, and she may have had valid concerns about you “working” on leave since I gather you aren’t in the US (long maternity leave? we don’t understand, why would a parent need to be with their children?) And who knows what she was told the job consists of (maybe the person who trained her “forgot” to mention some things). I’d give her a chance, maybe send her an email saying you plan to be back on x date and you look forward to getting back to work. If you wanted, you could add something about hoping you didn’t cause stress, you just really do care about the job.

  90. Anonymous for This One*

    Commentariat opinions, please. If you are bcc’d on an email, is your default assumption it is an FYI to you, and not a call to action? For example, would you not respond to the recipient unless the sender sent you a separate email with more information or a request to follow up?

    1. Bluebelle*

      Typically bcc is FYI, however if I think I am the one who has the information or needs to be the one to do the action, I will respond as such. But most times I think it is just a FYI.

    4. Picard*

      It depends on the content of the email. Mostly its an FYI – sometimes its to give someone a heads up that they may have an issue that needs addressing…

      Can you provide any more context?

      1. Sabine the Very Mean*

        I’ve once had to do it because I was being intimidated by someone via email so mine was a call to action and luckily my boss knew to call me on the phone right away to find out more before she took action.

    5. Cthulhu's Librarian*

      Generally, I use BCC as a means of alerting superiors that they need to be aware of a situation. It’s not quite an FYI – I’m highlighting that there is a serious conversation, and here’s the responses I’ve gotten (and given), and I need them to be aware of it (due to potential or actual pushback).

      I greatly appreciate it when they follow up with me and say “Did this get resolved, or do I need to step in and help?”

      1. MissBaudelaire*

        This is how I use it in my job. I BCC my higher ups to make them aware of the situation and what has been said. That way there’s no confusion about what exactly is going on.

        We have a key phrase about “I’m looping in SoandSo on this so they can help clarify.” That way the higher up knows it’s time to step in.

    6. just another bureaucrat*

      This is how I’d expect it. If someone wanted me to do something that wasn’t wildly obvious with a BCCed email I’d expect them to follow up with me. That’s an FYI only or a CYA.

    7. Purple Cat*

      It would be odd for you to directly respond to the recipient because they don’t know you were on the email.
      The sender put you BCC as a heads up to you, so it’s worth a conversation about what the issue is.

    8. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

      There’s almost never a legit use of BCC in this context. Most people don’t study the list of recipients and will probably assume they were CC unless the email seems specifically addressed to them. Then they respond or refer to the content of the email in some other way, that the official recipient doesn’t know they received.

      In my experience it’s almost always better to forward on the “sent” email to the person you would have put in BCC, with some commentary like “as you can see below, I’ve responded to Jane with answer X, but I wanted to make you aware of this because reason ABC”.

  91. Llama Wrangler*

    We have a new CEO – as a part of his onboarding, he shifted the previous executive assistant role to a chief of staff – but after the person was hired with an executive assistant title. Now his COS is in every “one-on-one” meeting he has with any of her direct report or departmental leads. Since this role is new, I don’t know if this is normal, but it certainly was surprising to me to get an invite for a one-on-one with him and have the COS there too.

    Is this standard at other companies? Does it strike other people as unusual? (He’s not my direct supervisor, so I continue to have regular check ins with my boss where no one else is there.)

    1. Lunch Eating Mid Manager*

      I think it’s a little weird but I’m in the public sector and we don’t even have CEOs, so what do I know. I’d just prepare for it to be a 1:2 meeting (bring an extra copy of materials, etc.) and don’t worry further about it. He’s the boss and he can have whoever he wants in meetings.

  92. Jean Pargetter Hardcastle*

    CW: pregnancy loss

    A couple of months ago, someone I supervise announced her pregnancy. Two days later, I found out I was pregnant. Two weeks later, I miscarried. I was able to take a week off, and the thing I worried about most when returning to work was how I would interact with this person. We are a close team, and while I don’t maintain friendships outside of work with people I supervise, I would definitely describe our interactions with each other as friendly. We regularly talk about what’s going on in our lives, we know about kids and spouses, etc. If I were to leave this job, I probably would develop and maintain a friendship with the direct report who is pregnant.
    Anyway, while it hasn’t been as difficult as I anticipated, it is still hard to watch someone else’s pregnancy advance while mourning the loss of my own, all day every day. And I think I am probably a bit more distant with this report than I used to be, but I’m trying to keep that in check because I don’t want her think she’s done something wrong.
    I’m looking for advice from anyone who’s navigated this dynamic at work. Thanks in advance!

    1. Picard*

      Does she know about your pregnancy and subsequent miscarriage?
      If not, would you feel comfortable telling her in confidence?

        1. Jean Pargetter Hardcastle*

          Thank you. No, no one knew I was pregnant because it was quite early. I decided against telling her for two reasons: (1) I don’t want her to feel awkward or that she should treat talking about her pregnancy any differently because of me; (2) while we are an open and friendly group, this feels a bit like asking an employee to help me manage my emotions, which just seems inappropriate.

    2. Lunch Eating Mid Manager*

      I am sorry for your loss. It sounds like she (and most others at your work?) didn’t know you were pregnant thus don’t know about the miscarriage? I think it is A-OK to be “a little more distant” during this time to protect yourself. It sounds like you are well able to maintain professionalism with her, and plenty of managers would not want to chit chat about pregnancy tidbits with their direct report at the water cooler, so don’t worry about it. You may get back to a place of feeling like you’re friends (or would be outside of work) but you can absolutely table that for now.
      I got married the same summer as a lot of my friends, and at the time I had a miscarriage that fall (I’ll never forget missing the work Halloween party, which was a big deal at the time) three friends were pregnant and all had their babies that spring, when I would have had mine. WOW that was painful, so hard to watch on FB. My emotions turned the corner when I got pregnant again, as nervewracking as the first trimester was, and had my son the next fall – and guess what, same grade as all those friends’ kids and we’re all going through the teen milestones together now. I truly think that time is the best healer for the pain of pregnancy loss, and I wish you only the best every day.

  93. Potatoes gonna potate*

    Disclaimer: apologies if this was discussed in an earlier thread/post.

    There’s a meme/tweet that’s been going around since late last year about a server in NYC who was questioned about a gap in their resume for March 2020.

    So im curious — has anyone encountered that in their search?

    Luckily I haven’t come across anyone like that, at least not recently. I did interview extensively with a few recruiters in mid-2020 but I can’t recall if this was brought up (I feel like I would remember right?). I do plan to begin job searching in May, and I guess I’m just bracing myself for it. And want to hear about others’ experiences.

    1. fueled by coffee*

      If an employer cannot figure out why someone working in the restaurant industry might have a gap in employment in March 2020, they probably aren’t someone you want to work for.

      It’s common for employers to ask about employment gaps, but in this case, your specific flavor of pandemic-related issues (layoffs, illness, needing to limit exposure, working in an industry that shut down, etc.) should suffice to explain those gaps. Usually employers just want to know that (1) you weren’t fired for concerning workplace behavior and (2) you aren’t facing ongoing challenges that will prevent you from doing the job.

  94. A. Ham*

    Thoughts on applying for multiple open positions at the same company?

    There is a company I would love to work for some day- so much so that even when I am happy in current position and not looking anywhere else I will keep my eye on their job listings. I interviewed for a position pre-pandemic, it went well but didn’t work out at the time. I also interviewed about 6 months ago, made it through a few rounds this time, but again did not land it.
    I don’t apply for things willy nilly just because I want to work there – I only apply to positions I genuinely feel I would be a good fit for. Well, I checked their website today for the first time in a while, and there happen to be three different open positions that look good to me. Is it bad form to apply for all of them?

    1. Purple Cat*

      Darn, I was really hoping other people would chime in because I have the SAME question.
      Do you have a sense if the positions are all in the same department/manager? Or are they in separate departments in the same company? More reasonable to apply to multiples if it’s different areas, because it’s likely to be seen by different people.

    2. Pam Adams*

      Are they different departments? At my university, an academic advisor position can be under several different departments. I know people have applied for and even interviewed for multiple positions at the same time.

  95. Syl*

    Is it still OK to ask this question in a job interview?? I’ve heard that it’s a good question, but a couple of interviewers have seemed weird about it.

    The question is “Do you have any concerns about me as a candidate? Is there a way I could address any of those now?”

    Thanks y’all!!

    1. Anonymous Educator*

      I’ve heard it’s okay, but I would be taken aback if someone asked me it. I don’t think it’s out of line, but it can make things a bit awkward. Sometimes interviewers will have concerns that they don’t feel comfortable voicing in the moment, or they don’t think those concerns would be something you could address in the moment.

    2. Yessiree Bob*

      I have heard that you should do that in interviews for governmental and some corporate positions where the interviewers cannot deviate from their list of questions or ask follow-up questions–it gives them an opportunity to say, “Yes, as a matter of fact, you said this but I want to know more about…..”

      Most interviews are a little more flexible than that, so you don’t necessarily need to word it that way. Questions like, “What are you looking for in a candidate?” or just “Do you have any concerns about me as a candidate?” would be a little more fitting.

      I’ve also been on the interviewing end and usually was more concerned with how the applicant’s skills and experience compared to the other candidates and how they would work with the team, rather than just looking at their skills in a vacuum. If I had gotten that question, I probably wouldn’t have had an answer. Sometimes both candidates are technically great but one is just a better fit–like, we’re hiring for a receptionist but also need help with flyers like once a year and both candidates are great but one also really likes graphic design so we give the position to him, even though flyer-making isn’t in the job description.

    3. AvonLady Barksdale*

      I asked it in the final interviews for the last two jobs I got. First because I was switching industries and second because I was switching roles in a pretty significant way. It went over well both times. I probably prefaced it like, “I realize this role is different in X ways from my previous roles– do you have any concerns about that that I can address?” In the second case, I believe I was very specific: “Are you concerned that I have never had this type of role before?”

      I would for sure save it for a third round, maybe a second. Never during the first interview.

  96. JustaTech*

    Looking for some perspective: I was meeting with my director (3 levels up from me) recently and he expressed the opinion that our women’s Employee Resource Group (ERG) wasn’t going to “fix the diversity problem” without having a man as a co-chair.

    I was pretty floored by this (but kept up the pleasant “I’m listening” face) and my gut reaction is “heck no” but I’m trying to articulate why this seems so wrong.

    As far as I know the point of the women’s ERG isn’t to “fix the diversity problem”, it’s to support the women already at the company. Same thing for our POC ERG – it’s not about fixing the fact that upper management is mostly white dudes, it’s about providing support the POC at the company.

    If that’s what the ERGs are for, then I don’t see the benefit of having a guy co-chair the women’s ERG. (I’ll note that the two ERGs do a lot of work together, so there have been events that had an actually fully diverse group including white guys.)

    I think part of my reaction was that my director (who’s not white) made a dismissive comment about pronouns (air quotes) and then said something about “my [his] sister” and therefore he knows about women in the workforce (or something), both of which make me think he hasn’t given the whole thing as much thought as he thinks he has.

    I know the easiest way to deal with this is to ignore it and let something else come up and distract him, but I would like to have a succinct answer (or maybe some research/citations) on why it might not be helpful/useful/necessary to have a man co-chair the women’s group.

    1. Admin of Sys*

      Honestly, I’d push back on why he thinks there needs to be a guy to fix things /regardless/ of whether the ERG is meant to fix things or not. If the reasoning is that a man is needed to accomplish things – well, that’s a sign of serious disfunction in the company. Ask him why he thinks a woman couldn’t accomplish the same things. If it’s that all the higher ups with the power to change things are men – that’s /also/ an indication that there needs to be more diversity / gender equality / etc. The ‘fix’ in that case isn’t to have a man as a co-chair, it’s to have a woman as an exec.

      1. JustaTech*

        He did (sort of) explain it as “if you’re going to teach men to see women as people then they need to be involved.”

        Which is 1) 100% not the point of the ERG and 2) OMG if you can’t do that then being co-chair of a group is not going to fix anything!

        Last year he asked me why I was in the ERG (pretty dismissively) and after a few answers he didn’t like (talk with people at other departments and sites, lift up other women in the company and industry) I finally said “because I went to girl’s school”. “That’s not an answer!” “Yes it is.” “harumph”

        And the best part? Another, more senior woman in our department told him the *exact same thing*. It’s a short way of saying ” I have been part of a (generally) supportive, intellectually stimulating all-women environment and I like it.”

        We used to have a woman on the executive team (COO) but she quit for a more challenging/prestigious job at another company, and because our then-new CEO was a colossal jerk. (Yeah, I’ve had 3 CEOs this pandemic, it’s fun.)

        That’s actually another part of why my director doesn’t like these groups (even if he really, really wants DEI), because they were started in response to the Spring 2020 protests as window dressing. But while they started as window dressing the actual people in charge of running them have made them work and do stuff, so there’s no reason to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

    2. The New Wanderer*

      The reason it sounds wrong is because there’s no basis for that claim. It sounds like it’s just this man’s opinion that without a man in the room, nothing can get done and that’s bogus and unfounded.

      Your answer might just be a simple question back, “Why?” Make him put into words the sexist dismissive “logic” he’s using to support that opinion. Put the burden on him to justify his baseless position, rather than on yourself to defend a perfectly reasonable approach. All of recent history shows you can’t win with facts against someone with an outdated, limited mindset, so push the effort back onto him.

      1. Nesprin*

        Yup. Allyship is great, and men should be involved in women’s issues (because they’re people issues faced by half the population).

        But if your institution requires a man for an issue to get airtime, you have reached peak patriarchy.

      2. Chilipepper Attitude*

        Ask why or ask for the receipts. Ask for the studies on it because you find it so interesting and want to read them.

    3. Rusty Shackelford*

      I guess the best possible reading is that he thinks the group’s responsibility *is* to fix the problem. And he thinks no one will listen to them or give them any power if there is no man in charge. But yeah, I’d just say “why do you say that?” and force him to put it into words, because it’s probably not the best case scenario.

    4. No Tribble At All*

      HAHAHAHAHA can he even hear himself?!

      It may be helpful to distinguish between affinity groups which are typically for members of a minority only; and resource/working groups, which are open to participation from everyone. So, if your ERG is an affinity group, you can straight up say “no dudes”

    5. pancakes*

      Wow! Wow. I like what Admin of Sys said about asking him to expand on why he thinks this, and I feel like your point about the purpose of the group is important to convey. Maybe you can go back to him and say something like, “I’ve been thinking over what you said about the women’s ERG, and I’m curious to hear more about your perspective. I hope you can expand on why you think the group needs a man to co-chair. Before we get into that, though, I want to add that my understanding has been that this ERG is meant to support the women who are already here . . . [etc.].”

    6. RagingADHD*

      Could he possibly have meant — and I’m really reaching here to try to find some possibly reasonable point– that it would be useful to have an ally/advocate who already has leverage with the PTB in the company? And that, because the diversity problem is so deep-rooted, it would be easier to find a man who already has that leverage?

      If (if!) that’s what he meant, that’s not entirely out of left field. But a) it doesn’t mean the ally needs to be co chair, and b) it certainly sounds like he doesn’t understand the purpose of the group.

    7. Policy Wonk*

      Given the difference in your ranks, I wouldn’t take it up with him. I recommend you report this to the chair of the ERG, seek advice there. It’s 2022 – we shouldn’t have to be dealing with this kind of BS. Sigh.

  97. The New Normal*

    I keep trying to get here early enough to get some good feedback and not get buried, but I always miss it!

    I am currently an admin assistant. We are relocating to the Portland metro area in a few months and I would like to move away from admin jobs and into a position I can really own. Any tips on the direction I should be looking?

    Last week Project Management was suggested and it’s been a fantastic lead. But I don’t want to miss any opportunities so please throw your ideas at me!

    1. irene adler*

      Quality Assurance? ASQ.org I’m finding that folks in the Quality field value project management skills and those in the project management field value the Quality skills.

    2. Green Goose*

      Event planning? I see companies that combine executive assistance and event planning. Also, being a high level executive assistant could be really interesting.

    3. AsherCat*

      I’ve seen some people in my organization move from admin assistant to business process analyst (or just business analyst). If you are into analyzing processes, making process maps, talking with lots of people about their daily work and codifying that onto a tangible document, thinking about ways to improve processes, then that might be for you. I work in IT and we have a whole team dedicated to this (about 4 people). I’ve found them to be very helpful because they get us to think about WHY we do things the way we do, and that helps us solidify our processes before we jump into technical projects (and sometimes even avoid technical projects that don’t actually need to be done).

    4. AdequateArchaeologist*

      Is there a certain aspect of the admin work you really did a lot of or excelled at? For example, my last admin job was a lot of data entry and data management. I really learned on that aspect of my experience when I was interviewing for my current (non-admin) role.

      Maybe if you’ve helped with bookkeeping or coordinating meetings that can help you figure out what you liked and give you se direction.

    5. Sammy Keyes*

      Have you looked into Operations? I started my current job as a front desk admin but quickly started doing operations tasks and got moved into a more ops focused role, it’s a lot more problem-solve-y than admin work and involves owning more projects, but uses a ton of the same skills. I work at a research laboratory.

    6. Malika*

      What are the aspects of your job you like and what do you dislike? And are there any skills you don’ t yet have but would be interested in learning?

      You have gotten great tips on how to move to a job that would be a good progression from admin assistant. Another option is to retrain in a different area if it piques your interest and apply for entry-level jobs. This of course if you can handle the temporary pay cut. I transitioned into customer experience after ten years as an executive assistant. The pay cut was manageable, even though it took a bit of getting used to. It was totally worth it, as jetissoning tasks that were not a good fit for me gave me a lot of energy to contribute at work for career advancement. I believe that in due time i will get back to my old salary and move beyond it, which long-term will be more lucrative. Food for thought as you look into possibilities.

  98. Just Me*

    Would anyone here be willing to help me out with how to properly refer to my trans predecessor?

    I started a new job ~6 months ago. As I was getting to know people in various departments through the company I was telling people, “I’m taking over for Fergus!” or things to that affect. Recently, I found out that my predecessor now goes by Jane and left the company because the insurance would not help with her gender affirmation surgery.

    I feel incredibly bad for dead naming and misgendering my predecessor, but now I’m not sure how to refer to her to coworkers who don’t know Jane is trans. Within my department it isn’t an issue, but I’m not sure how to approach it with other colleagues. Do I say, for example, “You may have received this email from my predecessor Jane Stark, who used to go by Fergus Stark”?

    1. Littorally*

      This is a good question, and it’s good of you to be thinking proactively about it. You sound like you’re pretty clear on the problems inherent in misgendering/deadnaming Jane, but the other side of the coin is not outing her.

      If you have any direct contact with Jane, I’d reach out to her and ask. It’s a pretty basic question and (as another trans person) I find it highly unlikely she’ll be offended or rattled if you are straightforward about it. It may be that she doesn’t mind you outing her to people who weren’t aware of her transition before leaving — but it may also be that she doesn’t want you as a third party being the one to tell them, and would prefer to manage how her network finds out.

      In the absence of direct contact with her, is it practical for you to avoid using her name altogether? “You may have received this email from my predecessor in the Teapot Review role” as an alternative?

      1. Yessiree Bob*

        Yes, I definitely wouldn’t want to out Jane unnecessarily, either. This came up in a staff meeting as an fyi Fergus is now Jane and it’s on her Linkedin, so my thought was that she would want to professionally be known as Jane. But you’re right that the best bet is to let her be the one to control the narrative and to just refer to myself as the new Teapot Reviewer, no names assigned.

    2. Kimmy Schmidt*

      A good question. I’d try to avoid using the deadname if at all possible. I’d amend your suggested language slightly to “You may have received this email from my predecessor, Jane Stark” or “You may have heard from the previous Teapot Coordinator”. I’d only respond with a breezy “Jane used to go by Fergus!” if your colleague is confused and truly needs to make the connection to Jane.

      I’m cis, so I defer to others.

      1. calonkat*

        I’m cis too, but “previous Teapot Coordinator” sounds good. If they ask to be reminded who that was, then if the last name is the same, try just the last name. Most people will just go “oh ok” in their head and move on.
        If someone is trying to find a specific email, then I don’t think it’s deadnaming, just the actual name that’s on the email. But if you’ve got the subject and date, that should be sufficient. If they are trying to find the PERSON, then you might have to give the current name.

    3. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

      I am not a member of the trans community so I apologize in advance if my answer is off base – but my initial thought would be to treat it as if the person had changed their name due to marriage or divorce (or some other life event). The client knew your predecessor as Fergus and all they need to know about Fergus is that Fergus is no longer there and you have taken over the role. If they know the individual personally, they will be in the loop about updates in her personal life, and if they don’t know her personally, they don’t need to know anything more than the fact that she’s left.

      It seems similar to the time I left a position, got married/changed my name, and then started a new position. It would be pretty strange for my replacement at my first job to reach out to my former clients and say “I’m taking over for Tina Belcher, who is now Tina Fluffernutter” – the client doesn’t care what’s going on with my life now, they just care who their business contact is.

      1. Colette*

        Yeah, if Jane was known as Fergus while she worked there, I don’t think there’s a lot of benefit to referring to her as Jane and causing confusion. If she was known as Jane while she worked there, then you should use Jane.

    4. Yessiree Bob*

      This is all super helpful–thank you all so much! You’re right that just saying “I’m the new teapot coordinator” is the simplest way to get around it for now.

  99. Bad Manager*

    What have been your experiences after virtual interviews?

    I switched jobs last year and it’s a bad fit, so I’m looking to switch again. My last interview experience moved very quickly but it was from one company to a very similar competitor and I had a contact within the company.

    I interviewed with a hiring manager via Zoom on Tuesday. It went very well in that I didn’t say anything catastrophic, but we went a bit over and it ended abruptly because my interviewer was late for another meeting, and they didn’t mention timeline. I didn’t have their contact information so I emailed a quick note to my HR contact asking to pass it along to them. I was initially told that if moving forward I would have to interview with the larger team.

    I’m definitely *that person* in this scenario but with each day that passes without feedback I feel like it’s less likely. But this is also a fairly large company and they aren’t bleeding employees (like my current employer, who is a vendor for these types of large companies). I know I have to be patient, but it’s frustrating!

    1. Cookies for Breakfast*

      I generally get very quick feedback after virtual interviews. It’s hearing back after submitting my CV that tends to take way longer (even when it’s rejections). I had one very frustrating experience with a large global company that interviewed me twice and then took two months to send me a rejection, but that was the exception rather than the rule. Interestingly, this company had mentioned a one-week timeline, and completely failed to meet it. When employers share their timeframes, I tend to be skeptical, though most have kept their word so far.

      Hope you get the news you’re waiting for soon!

    2. Mr. Cajun2core*

      I have had virtual interviews where it took weeks for me to hear back and some where it took days. One I even heard back the next day! My experience is that they are no different on hearing back from in-person interviews.

  100. Potatoes gonna potate*

    A friend referred me to a really great opportunity.
    I applied and spoke with the recruiter only to be told a few days later they won’t be moving forward with my application. I’m currently working as a contractor for my former employer which happens to be one of their business partners/affiliates. (Not sure what the correct term here is). Basically conflict of interest or agreement or whatever.

    I wasn’t looking for FT work so not a huge bummer but it did seem like a great opportunity so…. a tiny tiny bum?

  101. Aggretsuko*

    This week’s petty bitch: the office has decided in its infinite wisdom that we shall all have laptops and lug them back and forth between home and the office. This is not what it sounds like since we have jobs where we need giant screens. I’m told these are supposed to work as portable hard drives and we can just plug them into the giant screens. I really don’t have room for this crap or want to haul it all back and forth, but obviously I don’t get a choice about it. Happily, they postponed making me get one for several weeks–I’ve lost track, it’s been something like 3-4 weeks since the first person had to make the transition.

    You’d think this means they’ve worked out the kinks by the time they get to me, right? But no! They have not! They gave me a docking station that doesn’t hold all of the cords and the VPN doesn’t work. Problems that, according to my coworkers, they alerted them to weeks ago. Which are STILL ISSUES. I spent like 3 hours on this crap yesterday and the manager onsite disappeared for hours electronically, so I was waiting on her to find out if I had to slog back to get more equipment or if they had it in the building or whatever. (I note that this is the unvaxxed manager, so yay, let’s spend more quality time together indoors in close quarters….she has a very good mask on at least. But still.) So I have to go back today and deal with her again, sigh. And I guess she was the one manager out of three who was unaware of all of these issues. That’s my life.

    2. Toodie*

      Taking our laptops home every night (even in pre-COVID days, when we were all working in the office) was a requirement at my job, too. It was their way of securing the computers? I guess? I had a decent docking station and setup, but man I hated lugging a laptop back and forth every day.

    3. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      We just got laptops after 18 months of WFH or partially WFH.

      We have to either lock them in our desks or haul them back and forth. It is unnerving that they have not at least provided lockable tethers for these tiny things so that we can leave them at the office.

      I haul it because I keep hoping against hope that I’ll get to WFH more than I do.

    4. Down to the minute*

      Unless there’s more, there are probably 100 million workers who wished that was a bad week for them.

      Do some breathing. Get away. What you’re describing shouldn’t ruin your weekend.

  102. Jamalama*

    This is going to get buried here – it’s something I’ve wanted to ask Allison but this is probably a better forum for it. Who else is feeling like Covid has taken away their ability to work productively? I can’t be the only one. I have two kids that have been distance learning off and on for two and a half years. I work at home with a spouse who has a job that he goes to every day and it’s been SO HARD to not be resentful. I don’t feel like I get entire hours to myself to work and it’s made so it even when I do have the time it’s hard to focus. I’m so tired and burnt out and don’t see an end and I just want to hear that others feel this way, and if anyone has pointers on how to get more productive I want to know them! Ps. my job, manager, and coworkers are amazing and never once have I heard anyone say that I need to focus more on work. I apparently am doing just fine, but I don’t FEEL like I am and I don’t like it.

    1. Dark Macadamia*

      I’m not even working right now and I feel this way. My older kid has been in remote learning for a year and a half, and my younger one just thinks this is what life is like. I have trouble focusing even on basic tasks like cooking or reading, and sometimes I’m soooo jealous that my spouse actually gets to leave the house even if it’s just for work.

    2. The Finest Muffins and Bagels*

      You’re not alone. My kids are in school/daycare but because of school closures and COVID exposures and community spread we have been childcare-less for multiple stretches at a time. It makes me feel like an inconsistent/unreliable employee, even know absolutely no one has given me grief about any of it. Everyone is being really understanding in fact. Honestly I don’t think you need to get more productive–it sounds like you’re doing great, especially if you haven’t gotten any negative feedback from your superiors or coworkers. Working parents are being absolutely screwed right now.

    3. Jean Pargetter Hardcastle*

      I don’t have any pointers, but I am here to say that I definitely am struggling to be even remotely motivated. I think just getting through is enough at this point. (I know that doesn’t help with how awful it feels, but I hope it is validating.)

    4. AsherCat*

      I know exactly how you feel! During most of 2020, my husband still had to go to his work, but I was entirely wfh with two small children (2 and 4.5). Our daycare had shut down, and I couldn’t ask our normal sitters – grandparents (not that I would really ask anyone else during that time). So it was just me and two very active children in a very small house. I could barely concentrate on work. I didn’t have my two monitor set up – just a tiny laptop – my kids were constantly needing something, my dogs were constantly barking, and I was way more exhausted at the end of the day than when I had been going into the office. My husband is amazing and would try to do as much of the domestic work as possible when he got home, but my girls were (are) very clingy with me – so even if we were just watching a movie, they still had to be ON me. I couldn’t do my normal decompress things – like going shopping at Target by myself – though my husband would take the girls to parks, or I’d go for walks by myself just to get a break. But it still wasn’t like it was before, where I had those 8 hours at the office where I was just ME, and not worker+parent.

      My team and boss were also amazing, and they totally understood. I did have intense guilt because I was the only one on my team with this situation, but no one made me feel bad. My productivity did drop, but my boss still gave me an amazing review and acknowledged how difficult the year was. Things that helped – a to do list that I kept every day, and I tried to keep it small so I wouldn’t get overwhelmed. I tried to focus more on smaller “keep the lights on” tasks instead of huge projects, where possible. I let my kids watch a lot of TV – and reminded myself that I wasn’t a bad mom because we weren’t SUPER PRODUCTIVE, and I was just using the tools I had to do the best I could.

      There will be an end, at some point – I know it doesn’t seem that way, but it will come. Hang in there and make sure to check in with your team and boss. Talk about what can be removed from your plate, even just temporarily. I’m wishing you the best!

      1. Jamalama*

        These are all so helpful, thank you! I know there is not “solution” to this but it helps to know I am not alone! It sounds like most people (who have commented) have really supportive workplaces which is really the only reason I have not completely lost my mind. I think in 2020 a lot of people had this, and on top of it I live in a city that “burned to the ground” (not really) in the 2020 protests. I thought 2021 was going to be the year to pick myself back up and get back in the race, and to some extent it was but… we all know how that’s going. It just feel like by now I should feel like I should have more to show for myself work-wise and I don’t. But, I have roof and food and healthy kids and I don’t have COVID and I think that’s really the best I can expect at this point. Ugh.

        1. Hex Code*

          My husband described it as, you want to drive the 70 because that’s the speed limit and what you think you “should” be able to drive. But you don’t drive 70 when there’s black ice or a blizzard, and you can’t control that. Has made me feel better about being “bad” at my job on 2020-present, with two little kids and both of us working full time.

    5. Lizzie (with the deaf cat)*

      Dear Jamalama, millions and millions and millions of (predominantly women) all over the world who were already doing employment and running a household and being a parent have, thanks to covid, had to add two more jobs into that scenario: Full time childcare and teacher.

      You are absolutely not alone. Speak up where you can, to any politician or elected representative, about the unsustainability of this.

      It is not impossible that the existence of covid and the changes it has forced (eg making work from home more available) will act as a catalyst for useful social change. We have to keep talking about it as a structural thing though, rather than ‘how can I do 5 jobs all at the same time’ .

      Where I live, there is a government expectation that we will now use rapid antigen tests frequently, although they are not available in anything like the numbers required and so are very hard to find. When our prime minister was asked about his access to them, he said Oh, my wife gets them.

      The reporter didn’t ask if his wife could get them for the rest of the population too, perhaps.

  103. Friyay*

    I left a job last week that was a terrible fit. I had a few interviews last week and received 2 offers this week! I accepted one, which included a pay raise, and start in 2 weeks. Yay!

  104. Gruvbabie*

    Has anyone heard of the concept of #Overemployed (salaried employees with two concurrent fte jobs)? I just read a few articles about it in Forbes and WSJ this week and I am intrigued. In the past I would have considered it vaguely unethical, but after staying stagnant at my salary for a while, I can totally see why people would do it, although it sounds stressful and I’m personally terrible at keeping secrets.

    1. Littorally*

      There’ve been a few posts where we’ve discussed it.

      My general feeling is that there isn’t necessarily a fundamental moral issue with holding two FTE jobs as long as the worker isn’t performing work for one while on the clock for the other, but there are severe and numerous practical issues to the point that most employers would be justifiably annoyed at finding out their employee was working a second full-time job. There are also situations where the outside work would have regulatory issues if not properly disclosed/approved (IE – I work in finance, my regulatory org requires I disclose and have employer approval for any outside employment or certain types of volunteer position.)

      1. Gruvbabie*

        Thank you! I’ll definitely search for those posts.

        And, agreed. It seems like it would be complicated for any normal person to function well — or at least adequately — with the split focus.

    2. Kiitemso*

      It feels wrong to me for reasons I can’t quite put my finger on. Like maybe it just feels a bit greedy in a way? There aren’t an infinite number of open positions and usually the folks who do this don’t do it for jobs like nurse or EMT, jobs where the labor shortage is very much felt. They do it for relatively plushy WFH positions, where another person could probably be quite happy filling that seat as well.

      1. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

        That’s how it feels to me too. It would be one thing if someone was working multiple jobs to make ends meet (which would be nothing new, that’s always happened in this society), but it usually isn’t.

        The letter writer who wrote in a few months back bragging about doing two jobs was a good example – it came out in the comments that the two jobs she was holding were both highly compensated (I think over $200k each!) leadership roles with tech companies. That feels even more wrong because not only was she double dipping at a salary range that was extremely comfortable in any market in the US, but she was also abusing the trust her companies placed in her to perform as a member of leadership.

        1. Gruvbabie*

          Yeah, I actually agree with this. Plus that person is actively blocking another person from having the opportunity to move forward in their career in a leadership role.

          1. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

            Yes, each person that does this is taking away the opportunity for someone else to have that role. On a macro level this fails the “what would it be like if everyone did it” test (presumably people who think it is OK would agree that it’s ethically/morally OK for everyone) and on that basis it’s greedy double dipping.

    3. Girasol*

      It feels wrong but I can’t decide why. All the salaried positions I’ve had felt that they could work employees day and night, in the office for 9-10 hours, extra hours in a crunch, odd hour meetings from home with overseas folk, and on-call service when needed. (IT, y’know.) There wasn’t any time when I wasn’t kind of on Employer A’s time that I could have been sure to be available for Employer B. But I can’t decide if overworking is wrong, or if owning salaried workers 24/7 is wrong.

      1. Cassie*

        For me, the question would be do Employer A and Employer B both know that you are working for the other company and are they okay with it? Not that your employer(s) have a right to know everything about you, but if it has to be a secret, maybe that’s a clue that the arrangement is NOT right.

    4. Hlao-roo*

      For anyone missed the earlier posts, here are the titles and dates:
      “I’m working 2 full-time remote jobs — is this unethical?” posted on November 3, 2021
      “is there a way to find out if someone secretly has two full-time jobs?” posted on September 15, 2021
      “our new hire started another full-time job the same week he started ours” posted on February 3, 2021

      And a bonus, pre-pandemic two jobs question:
      “our new hire was secretly working another full-time job and lying to us” posted on April 4, 2018

      2. pancakes*

        There was also someone who posted an article about a transit development guy caught doing it here in the Friday open thread, last week or the week before I think?

    5. pancakes*

      Just FYI, Forbes has a “contributor network” that is very clickbait-y and the things you read there aren’t necessarily reliable. It looks like people approved to contribute currently get $250 for 5 posts per month. That’s a lot of content without a lot of incentive or time for research, and the editing is minimal. Between 2010 and 2018 they didn’t pay the contributors anything. It’s not reporting; it’s basically people trying to build their brand.

  105. TheAccountant*

    Could use some outside perspective on this job offer.
    I had a phone interview with the internal recruiter of a large well known company Wednesday morning, we set up a video interview (with 4 interviewers) for the next day, Thursday at noon. It went well, took about an hour, and I got a call from the recruiter at 4:50 was saying she had “good news” and she offered me the job when I called back this morning. I asked for the weekend to think about it and she emailed me the benefits and I got an automated email asking for references soon after.

    I feel like the quick turnaround time is a huge red flag but also not sure if I’m overreacting. I’ve taken a job that was offered to me almost immediately before and that was a nightmare, I quit after a month. But I’m only a year out of college so I don’t have a ton of experience to fall back on.

    1. Teaching?*

      I think it depends. The only experience I’ve had with an on the spot offer didn’t go well. However, sometimes if there is one candidate that just blows everyone out of the water then employers want to extend an offer right away, especially in this market where great candidates have lots of options. Can you do more research about the company over the weekend to see if there are other red flags? Do you know anyone at the company or anyone who has worked with anyone at the company?

    2. Romana*

      Last month, a former colleague approached me about a job opportunity. She didn’t have exact titles and job descriptions ready yet, so we had an informal chat about the organization, her department, the potential position, and my background. She just reached out to me again to update me on the job descriptions she was developing (still in progress) and let me know about a different position at her org that she thought I might be interested in. The job description for this one does sound aligned with my background and interests, but…if I’m being honest, I don’t see myself making the move unless they can offer me a better salary than my current position, and I’m skeptical. Based on what I’m seeing in the market and my own experience, I can imagine these positions paying >$20k less than my current job. I do feel like I’m stagnant in my current role and this would be a good time for me to move on, but I also don’t actually have any major issues driving me out, and I think all of the roles she’s approached me about would be lateral moves in terms of responsibility and seniority.

      Because I’m friendly with her on a personal level, part of me wants to just tell her my minimum salary requirement so that neither of us wastes time on the recruitment process if the ranges for these positions aren’t what I’m looking for. The other part of me thinks it would be a huge faux pas to be the one to bring it up first. What do you guys think? I’m conflicted about how to move forward with all of this because I would still possibly be interested in working for this org in the future…but I just don’t have enough information to feel good about it.

    3. L. Ron Jeremy*

      Seems normal to me that they want an answer within their time period. I believe most written job offers include an acceptance date by when you need to reply; usually 3 days is common.
      I’d say you can take the job once you’re reviewed their written offer and benefits package.

    4. Hattie McDoogal*

      I’d consider it a red flag that you were offered the position before your references were checked, personally. My current job tends not to check references and while it seems to work out OK in some cases (like me, I hope!) I think it suggests desperation – we have a lot of turnover.

    5. Annony*

      It’s hard to say. What were your impressions of the job and how well you fit after the interview? Are they pushing for a quick start date? I was offered a job almost immediately before and it was great. The job was an unusually good fit which is why it moved so fast. I needed a later start date than offered and they were fine with it. In my case, they had been looking for a while when I interviewed and so were comfortable making a quick decision. Go with your gut.

    6. AdequateArchaeologist*

      A quick offer might be a red flag or it might be fine. My last job offered interviewed me on Friday and offered me the job Monday or Tuesday. The only reason I left was because I got an amazing opportunity in my field of study.

      It could be your experience and qualifications match exactly what they’re looking for, or they feel like your personality is a good match, or they could be desperate for a warm body. If there aren’t any other red flags, I think it’s probably fine. If you’re worried maybe ask a few more questions, and if you have a bad feeling then trust your gut. But remember, it could also easily be that you’re their unicorn and they want to hire you before someone else can.

    7. T. Boone Pickens*

      This sounds like an incredibly standard process and honestly, kudos to the company for identifying their top choice (you) and moving quickly with an offer. I’m in recruiting and my #1 complaint with companies is they fail to realize that time kills all deals. It sounds like the company isn’t putting some kind of weird clock on the offer (like you need to get back to us in 24 hours or something like that).

    8. Sutemi*

      They might be reacting to a tight labor market by speeding up their internal processes. Lately we have had few applicants for open positions, and many applicants said they were in the final stages with other companies. Some have withdrawn before we could make them an offer. In response, our HR team has streamlined operations and is getting offers out to good candidates within 2 days of interviews.

    9. the cat's ass*

      Back in the dark ages of want ads in newspapers, i got an in-person interview with the 3 principals at the job, and they offered it to me at the end of the interview. They (separately) told me later that they’d been interviewing for 2 months and i was the best-qualified applicant. This was my first job out of my grad school program and wasn’t very well paid, but it was a great foot in the door and I’m still grateful, because it ultimately led to the job i have now which is mostly terrific, and one of my oldbosses is now my patient, which is weird but also affirming.

  106. Teaching?*

    Has anyone either been a middle/high school teacher and transition to a different career? Or had a different career and transitioned into teaching?

    I’ve been contemplating getting my teaching license (I’ve identified a transition program that allows me to do that at a reasonable cost), but I know that my friends who are teachers generally seem frustrated and unhappy. Teaching would cut my salary in half, and I don’t have a good way of testing the waters before jumping into a program. So I am hoping perhaps others can tell me the good and the bad? Or things they wish they would have known?

    1. Hlao-roo*

      No advice, just a hello from someone else who is thinking of transitioning into teaching from a different career. My plan right now is to stay in my current career for another five or so years and then pursue a teaching license/career. And like you, the switch would likely cut my salary in half.

      The most common complaints I’ve heard from teachers are:
      – low pay
      – more work than most people realize (all the prep and grading that happens after hours while society acts like they only work from 8-2 for 180 days/year)
      – fighting with administration/parents

      For low pay, my plan is to save for retirement while I’m in my high-paying career so I’m not stressed about money on a lower salary.

      Some districts might have better administrations and parents than other districts, but I have no advice on how to suss out the good from the bad. And I also have no advice on how to deal with working in a demanding job that most people who aren’t teachers think is a walk in the park.

    2. Flower necklace*

      I’m a high school teacher. I’ve taught or tutored in some way or another since college so I can’t speak to what it’s like to career-switch, but I’m satisfied with my job, and I think that the negative aspects of teaching tend to overshadow the positives.

      The pay is low, but (at my school, at least) there are plenty of opportunities to supplement your income. Teachers can coach a sport, tutor after school or on Saturdays, teach an extra class, etc. So I haven’t found the pay particularly problematic.

      For me, personally, the best part is that teaching is never boring. Even when the days are long, they go by pretty fast. Things change more quickly, too. Even at the high school level, kids learn and grow so fast. It’s a joy to watch.

      I’m not sure if that’s what you were looking for, but I hope it helps. I know that teachers as a whole are more dissatisfied than ever (hence the incredible teacher shortage), but there are still people out there who enjoy it.

      1. Teaching?*

        This is very helpful. I really like that it’s not boring. It has been one of the things that I’ve struggled with my current job.

    3. Square Root of Minus One*

      (Caveat: European here)
      I quit teaching 5 years ago and work as a scientist now. Couldn’t get past the first two years of teaching as a contract and a trainee.
      I can’t tell you the good, really. Some moments with the kids but that’s it.
      The pace was unsustainable. I felt like I was never off. In the trend “let the children figure it out by themselves” we were having then, preparing lessons was hours and hours of work thinking up everything that could go off rails. Evaluations have to be thought up too: what are you trying as a teacher to assess with that question? Also how to function with a class, what are your classroom rules with homework. A class is not a student. Teaching is nothing like tutoring. I wish I’d known.
      Working at home, weekends, vacations, it’s the expectation.
      And to be on your toes all the time. “Be well-meaning” to the kids, it was the buzzword. It usually translated by any less-than-polished word risking to be trouble.
      The institutions above were what I really couldn’t live with. Their advice was so useless to me it was infuriating to have them judge me.
      And the public opinion of teachers is super low here.
      You mention the pay: it was a shock for me in the other direction. I got paid 50% more and my evenings and weekends back.
      I heard it gets easier with time, since you can reuse previous work and you get the hang of it. I never reached that point.

  107. Temporarily Anonymous*

    To the Sarah* who commented on my post last Friday about being on leave and looking for work and said you have a job opening for a virtual admin position to be posted soon that you’d be willing to share, it looks like Alison didn’t see your request to share email or wasn’t able to do that. Would you mind sending me an email at temporarilyano AT g mail dot com?
    Thanks!

  108. Cookies for Breakfast*

    I wanted to say a big thank you the commenters Me, and Renee Remains The Same (and also to Sandman and Chauncy Gardener for reinforcing their points). Thought there may be more chances that they’d read today’s comments, rather than the past thread.

    I really appreciated everyone’s thoughtful replies to a comment I made in the 17 December open thread, coming from a place of huge frustration over getting a promotion pulled out from under me 30 minutes before starting my time off (and not being given anything to understand what the alternative vision for my role would be – which I still couldn’t get from this week’s conversation with my boss, ha!).

    More than one person reminded me that the choices I made so far were based on the information I had at the time of deciding, and that really helped. I had a sneaking suspicion that my promotion hadn’t been fully thought through by higher-ups, and still decided to take the huge pay rise that came with it (which still stands). Now my suspicions came true, I can tell myself this is the last time this workplace disappoints me, and look for a new job with no more doubts about whether it’s really the best thing for me right now. So, thank you, everyone. Your words made me feel less small and alone, and that means a lot, because hardly a day in this job has gone by without me feeling lots of that.

  109. Curious Georgie*

    How do you all feel about office/administrative duties being spread across all staff?

    I work in a small-ish firm; about 50 staff. Typically, admin staff takes care of the office space, mail, etc.
    New management has been very iffy on many things, including COVID precautions, and seems to lean heavily on having everyone back into the office as much as possible.

    With recent case surges, they reluctantly cut back in-office time, and asked that everyone come into the office on a rotating schedule to assist in admin tasks so the burden does not fall on only the admin team. I get the point to fairness in a particularly stressful and unique time, but management has not used that same perspective to do more helpful things (i.e. cut back in-office time across the board as part of management has confirmed we do not have admin needs that require immediate attention every day).

    I am fine helping out as needed but many non-admin staff already are swamped with workloads. It is also not part of our job descriptions – with the added admin work and commute, we have to somehow juggle it with our usual daily work. Am I a jerk for being mad about this? I’ve worked in very small offices where it was common to share all duties, including admin/mail/cleaning/etc, but that made sense because it was a clear expectation to chip-in from the start and there was no dedicated admin person or team. I’d love a reality check – part of this might just be my mounting frustration towards new management/boss.

    1. Kiitemso*

      I think it’s about how much and how often. For example when we went WFH, one admin visited the office once a week and did what she needed to do, but that’s about it. When accounts payable realized some invoices still get snail mailed to us, one of them started visiting the office to sort the mail once a week, and the admin did it when she visited, but she didn’t visit every day since she used public transport to commute and wanted to stay safe. However, mostly people just reported to her what they did and could she do X next time she visited.

      Cleaning should be done by professionals, IMO, not staff.

      1. Curious Georgie*

        Roughly everyone went into the office about 3x a week – the new schedule reduces it to about once. We do have an admin team, so it is not forcing one person to go in multiple times. But I suspect that they also are requiring the rotation for all staff because they do not want to anyone to go back to 100% WFH at all.

    2. Rusty Shackelford*

      With recent case surges, they reluctantly cut back in-office time, and asked that everyone come into the office on a rotating schedule to assist in admin tasks so the burden does not fall on only the admin team.

      I am confused. If these are considered admin tasks in your company, why are they worried about the burden falling on the admin team? Isn’t that like worrying about the burden of accounting falling on the accountants?

      1. Curious Georgie*

        They said it was moreso the burden of COVID exposure and commuting, in that it would not be fair if admin had to come in on their regular schedule but rest of staff continued their reduced schedule.

        1. Rusty Shackelford*

          Sounds like they’re confusing “fair” with “equal.” If some of the admin work has to be done on site, but little or none of the non-admin work does, why force you to go on site to do someone else’s work?

    3. WellRed*

      I get this in a very short term or emergency situation but otherwise they are placing a burden on other staff instead. If mgt us that concerned, they can drag themselves into the office and do it.

      1. Curious Georgie*

        Luckily management has added themselves to the rotation, but it doesn’t really make me feel any less frustrated. So far it’s been a month, with no telling how long it will go on for.

    4. Be kind, rewind*

      I hate it. I’m not good at it. It takes me twice as long to do it because I’m not good at it. There’s a reason I didn’t go into admin work. Maybe I’m a jerk, too. ;-) But you are not alone.

      I think the bigger issue is that they’re adding more to your plate with an already increased workload without any support to help get it all done. So, yes, you’re allowed to be frustrated with management.

      1. Curious Georgie*

        Thank you, thats a good point – there is no thought about how to relieve our actual workloads and deadlines.; just that if we can help more, we should volunteer to do so….

    5. Lizzie (with the deaf cat)*

      It a better world, they would hire another admin staff member (perhaps part time). Apart from anything else, it is wasting the company’s money to have people on higher hourly rates do the work of people who are paid at a lower rate. Of course, I imagine the company just expects current staff to do the extra work for free, from devotion to their employer.

      I was in the workforce when typists disappeared and professional people had to start writing their own reports, what a joke that was! I have also worked in employment places where we totally wasted the time and lowered the confidence of unemployed blue collar workers by forcing them to write cv and cover letters, instead of writing letters for them to use. Who cares about their personal letter writing ability? I want a plasterer or tiler who has those skills, their resume writing skills are irrelevant to me.

      I am totally not a fan of the “everyone has to have all of the skills” and AM a fan of utilising people’s strengths and supporting them as necessary. I don’t want to see nurses having to empty rubbish bins, I want to see cleaners having that job and nurses doing the medical stuff they trained for. I want to see nurses’ aides helping to feed patients who can’t feed themselves, yada yada. All of these jobs are valuable.

      Rant over!

  110. Squeebird*

    Low-stakes question: How would you note time acting in a position on your resume, if at all? For example, if you were Acting Teapot Manager for a significant length of time, then officially became Teapot Manager at a later date, would you list the two separately on your resume? I’m inclined to just have one entry of “Teapot Manager” for simplicity, but it seems dishonest somehow not to note that I was only “acting” for a portion of the time. Thoughts?

    1. Empress Matilda*

      Definitely only one entry regardless, unless the job responsibilities were significantly different from the acting role to the permanent one. If you want to differentiate the acting role, you could do it like this:

      Teapot Manager, Acme Corp (acting, 2016-18; permanent 2018-20)

      …but honestly that looks a bit clunky and weird to me. I’d just go with the one string of dates, and you can flesh out the difference in the interview if required.

    2. Soup of the Day*

      I’m not sure how your resume is formatted, but I think I would do something like this:

      Teapot Industries
      Acting Teapot Manager 2011-2012
      Teapot Manager 2012-2015
      Duties included overseeing the painting of teapots, etc etc

      You could use one blurb to describe the duties for both, but just put them on top of each other with the dates.

    3. The Finest Muffins and Bagels*

      I wouldn’t list it separately. As long as your job duties didn’t change I don’t think it’s disingenuous to leave out “acting.”

    4. fhqwhgads*

      One entry. The only time to list an “acting” or “interim” position is if you did not go on to be the actual whateveritwas.

  111. BingBong*

    Hello! Happy Friday. Are any other designers having a hell of a time finding a new job? I’ve applied to 166 remote design roles (brand design, marketing design, visual design – mid to senior level) over the last 10 months, interviewed with 12 companies, made it to final round with 3, no offers. I’m obviously only applying for roles I’m qualified for with 9 years of experience in retail and b2b marketing. I really would like to get into tech. Every few months I tweak my portfolio, resume, and linkedin with a new perspective on what could make me stand out as a candidate. It feels pretty bad to have people look at my portfolio and immediately reject me, which has been happening a lot lately. I’m starting to wish I wasn’t in a field that required a portfolio because it’s an opportunity out the gate to get rejected before even meeting me. I know I have mega value to contribute to the team! I’m smart, a hard worker, and can learn new design disciplines and softwares easily. I fear the jobs I’ve taken in the past have pigeonholed me into something that’s just not desirable to employers. Anyway, just curious how it’s been out there for other designers! Have a great weekend all.

    1. Hunnybee*

      I’m so sorry to hear that; it’s really tough for graphic designers right now, I think, but not for programmers or PMs, etc.

      Would you be interested in an adjacent field to design, like UX or Product Design? There are a LOT of jobs out there for those jobs, although coming from a creative background it isn’t always as interesting. But with a little rebranding it might help you find work.

      BEST of luck to you!

  112. OG Reader*

    I posted last week about handling recruiter outreach when I am in a 2nd new job in a year. I wasn’t going to follow up, but one emailed me again. So, I phone screened with her today. It is kind of attractive but there are several downsides. I left it open for her EVP to decide if they wanted to proceed. (My job is still all good but it’s so new to me that I figured I could go through this process and my job would be more known to me over the next few weeks. Had a new director hired for our office start this week, and I have only recently started doing my real work.) The initial salary band she said was $10k less than where I am but she said they could work with my current salary and some people in the role are vp not director (I don’t really want to move for the same.) I can be remote, but I would be building a team, and that team needs a specific geographical location because they will have local travel. I also have concerns because these jobs would be hard to hire for and my network in the geo area is limited. We will see, but at this point where I am now sounds better.

  113. gmg22*

    I was enjoying the dialogue about struggling to engage at work and was going to post a reply there, but I realized that my, um, issues are probably somewhat separate. Like LadyByTheLake and other fellow posters, I am having A LOT of trouble with regard to just sitting down and getting things done. Pandemic life has most certainly exacerbated this in a big way.

    But I’m not just burned out on my job, I’m burned out on our mission, too — and for some time now I have been working up a HUGE chip on my shoulder about it. My job is in the climate/energy field, and just a lot of the dialogue around these issues now is quite simply driving me nuts — the purity policing, the blithe assumptions made by economically comfortable people about individual choices because that’s easier than actually holding bigger actors (like utilities that just want profit and business as usual) to account. I have to follow social media as part of my duties, but I’m sorry, I have rarely seen such a collection of one-upping, hand-wringing, sanctimonious, overprivileged twits anywhere. I try to “walk the talk” in my own life too, but no, regardless of what some influencer on Twitter insists, my heat pump can’t keep my poorly insulated 80s condo boom townhouse warm when it’s 3 degrees F outside, and no, I can’t get rid of my gas water heater because installing the energy-efficient electric equivalent requires a basement or a utility room that I don’t have, and no, I can’t keep my plug-in hybrid topped up in winter when charging it means running an extension cord across the lawn (against manufacturer advice, but it’s the only way I can own an EV at all!) and there’s a huge snowbank where I normally would park it.

    I try to remind myself that anecdote isn’t data and I’m doing the best I can and that my experience SHOULD help inform policy we recommend to make clean energy technology more inclusive and not just accessible to people in their comfy single-family homes with basements and attached garages, but … still I get more and more resentful about this all the time, to the point that it makes me just want to exit the field altogether. My workplace has THE MOST SERIOUS case of Old White Guy Syndrome I’ve ever seen anywhere in my career, which doesn’t help. I can’t just put this out in the world because a huge part of my workplace’s organizational identity (with a side order of our tax status) involves being non-biased, behind-the-scenes educator types as opposed to taking strident positions. Also, my job is communications, which is not as valued in my organization as I wish it were. Even if I were to try to think about challenging our audience by asking these kinds of questions in a more public forum, it wouldn’t be taken seriously, at least not among my colleagues, because I’m not a subject matter expert.

    Typing this out I’m looking at it and thinking “Well, clearly the answer is to try to find other people in the industry who are similarly frustrated and go be a gadfly with them!” But that’s a shaky ground on which to build my next professional step. Anybody else in this field struggling with where we go next and how?

  114. Senorita Conchita*

    Removed. Please do not use multiple user names within a post here or continue to post variations of the same question over and over. Thank you.

  115. Cheezmouser*

    How can I change my attitude toward my new boss?

    I’m a high performer in my organization and fairly highly ranked in middle management. I usually get along with everyone and treat all colleagues with respect. However, I find myself looking down on my new boss who recently joined the organization. We butt heads, get hung up on details, rub each other the wrong way, and generally have trouble seeing eye to eye. When he makes a suggestion, I find it simplistic, unhelpful, demonstrates lack of understanding of our business, or we already tried it and know it doesn’t work. I have a strong urge to roll my eyes at some of the things he says.

    I have never behaved or reacted this way to anyone before, so I’m not sure how to stop. I at least try to not let it show outwardly. I know I’m being unfairly harsh in my opinion that he’s been slow getting up to speed, lacks vision, and micromanages. I try telling myself that I have to give him time to settle in (it’s been 2 months). I know I probably have unrealistic expectations. But knowing these things hasn’t made my feelings of annoyance and contempt go away and I’m worried that it will become noticeable despite my efforts to keep it under wraps. Any suggestions?

    1. just another bureaucrat*

      Can you bring some curiosity to either what he does bring to the job? Is he good at keeping senior leadership at bay? Is he good at restating the company line in a way that translates to something else? Is he good at talking to a certain group of folks? Any of those things you can use? Is he trying to learn about your company? Does he try to build skills? Escalate correctly?

      Or bring curiosity to why your senior leadership brought him in? What does it mean they were trying to do based on what skills he was supposed to have brought to the table? What does it mean for your division? What does it mean for other divisions under his oversight?

      That’s what I’d try at least. The other option is to just dazzle the snot out of him until he backs off but I’d kind of want to know at least the why senior leadership brought him in before I did that.

      1. ferrina*

        This is a great option. Being gracious about this is a good way to go, and reflect well on you as well!

        It’s also worth thinking about what the triggers are. What is annoying you, and also why does it annoy you? It could be that he reminds you of a childhood bully and that’s what’s triggering on you, or you may be picking up subtle red flags about how this person operates. Knowing this can help you know what to do next. If it’s something that’s You-focused, you can work through that (or just know that it will be there and you are reacting to a memory, not this person. Whatever helps move you forward.) If you’re picking up subtle things that will likely turn into issues, these are worth noting so you can start taking strategic action. Boss seems to consistently undervalue a core function? You might need to start documenting value or building advocates for that function.
        Good luck!

    2. Sabine the Very Mean*

      Wow. I’m 8 months in as a new manager joining well established team. I can’t imagine being able to make any suggestions of yet. It’s impossible to know enough to help them with anything other than, perhaps, excel formulas they may not know.

      But being in this position is suuuper awkward for me. I basically do nothing but sit and watch at this point. I’m only now starting to see where I may be of value. But how to execute it won’t come for me, developmentally for a few more months. I feel crazy amounts of anxiety because I don’t do a whole lot at this point. Your boss may be in this position where he has no clue what to do, has not much to do, and feels bad about it. Maybe.

    3. Hunnybee*

      OMG it sounds like my last boss. I lasted in that dynamic for 10 months and bailed for the first offer, which has proven a mistake….but that specific type of dynamic is like emotional nails on a chalkboard.

      Is this manager showing these traits with everyone? Or do you think that its a dynamic between the two of you?

    4. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

      Who was your manager before this boss? Has he been brought in as an intermediate layer between you and your old boss who’s now your grand boss?

      I’ve been in a similar situation to you (although I was an IC rather than a manager myself at the time). I’m afraid I shot down the boss’s suggestions with logic and/or experience and just plainly pointed out that “that won’t work because…”. As you can imagine the new boss developed an idea of me as negative and a “that’s how we’ve always done it so that’s what we must continue to do” type (which is the total opposite of how I actually am).

      After getting off on the wrong foot like this it took about 6 months to get back on track where he recognised me as an ‘expert’ and that was partly through letting him try out the initiatives and of course allowing them to fail, then analysing why that was (of course from my perspective it didn’t need too much analytical thinking because it was obvious why it hadn’t worked!). He never did develop the level of vision etc and to this day I am not sure what he really contributed to the company or why the position was created!

      I think if I had the “opportunity” to be in this position again I’d be more upfront in naming the pattern with the boss. “I can come off as negative and critic, here’s why”.

  116. Romana*

    Reposting in hopefully the right place this time…

    Last month, a former colleague approached me about a job opportunity. She didn’t have exact titles and job descriptions ready yet, so we had an informal chat about the organization, her department, the potential position, and my background. She just reached out to me again to update me on the job descriptions she was developing (still in progress) and let me know about a different position at her org that she thought I might be interested in. The job description for this one does sound aligned with my background and interests, but…if I’m being honest, I don’t see myself making the move unless they can offer me a better salary than my current position, and I’m skeptical. Based on what I’m seeing in the market and my own experience, I can imagine these positions paying >$20k less than my current job. I do feel like I’m stagnant in my current role and this would be a good time for me to move on, but I also don’t actually have any major issues driving me out, and I think all of the roles she’s approached me about would be lateral moves in terms of responsibility and seniority.

    Because I’m friendly with her on a personal level, part of me wants to just tell her my minimum salary requirement so that neither of us wastes time on the recruitment process if the ranges for these positions aren’t what I’m looking for. The other part of me thinks it would be a huge faux pas to be the one to bring it up first. What do you guys think? I’m conflicted about how to move forward with all of this because I would still possibly be interested in working for this org in the future…but I just don’t have enough information to feel good about it.

    2. Cassie*

      Since you are friendly and used to work together, I think it’s alright to ask about possible salary ranges. A former colleague of mine told me of a position possibly opening up in their new dept and asked if I would be interested. Knowing that the position was a step down from mine (and salary is lower too), I said “only if it’s [My Title] or higher! Let me know if the title changes.”

      Talking about titles might be less awkward than talking about specific salary ranges, but I think you could say “what would be the salary range?” and then decide how to proceed. It shouldn’t blackball you for the future – would your colleague really expect you to take a considerable pay cut, and for what? Just so you can work together again? (Wholly unrealistic!).

      1. Romana*

        I forgot to mention in my original comment that she told me that salaries haven’t been decided yet, so I know that she doesn’t know the ranges. I also already know that the titles of both of these positions are the same as my current one (think XYZ Analyst vs ABC Analyst). My thought process in wanting to tell her my minimum was that she wouldn’t have to spend the time interviewing me and such if she gets that information and it’s out of my range. And I feel so awkward that my only real question about this other position she sent me is also “what is the salary?” We worked in adjacent departments—never directly together—and only socialized in group settings like happy hours, so she doesn’t have a strong sense of what I’m like as an employee. I don’t want money-hungry to become her main impression of me.

        I’m probably kind of overthinking it though because I’ve always had a really hard time getting new jobs (most of my active job hunts have taken me 1 year+), so the idea of someone trying to recruit me is mindblowing to me. Feels like an opportunity that I can’t mess up, even though I KNOW that it’s not exactly messing up if I don’t even necessarily want the position.

        1. Lady Danbury*

          She’ll have the range by the time she reaches out for a formal interview, so I would ask then. Maybe think about a few other questions to ask, even if it’s just “Has anything else about the role changed since we last talked?”

        2. Cassie*

          I see – I think I’d probably be straightforward and say “you mentioned that the salary ranges weren’t determined yet but I thought I should let you know that I’d be looking for a position in $X range”. Like you said, you don’t want to waste anyone’s time if the salary is not going to work – and since you do know each other (albeit not well), it’s far better to do it earlier on than later. It would be extremely awkward to get far into the interviewing process and get an offer just to decline because it’s wildly out of line with what you should get.

          Unless you preface it with something like “I need to get PAID!”, it won’t come off as being money-hungry. (And if someone thinks a polite inquiry about salary ranges is OTT, then I’m not sure you’d want to work for that person anyway).

    3. Reba*

      I can understand why you feel hesitant but especially since you know this person pretty well, it’s not out of line to ask! Remember, this is business — it’s not like you are asking to see inside her wallet!

      Thank her for sending the description and simply say, “do you know anything about the salary range for this role, or should I direct that question to HR?”

  117. just another bureaucrat*

    Phrase suggestion request.

    So I’ve started losing weight and I don’t want to talk about it. What kinds of boring, boring, boring (not snarky or pushy) suggestions do folks have?

    Right now the best I’ve got is a “Yup. Anyway about those TPS reports.” but I’m looking for a few options for my pocket on this one. I just want to close the door quietly on the conversation. I’m not interesting in training people to not comment on my body by educating them or teaching people a lesson. I want really really really boring answers.

    I considered “doctor’s orders” but that feels like too much and too open. I’ve considered a shrug and “calories in less than calories out” but that feels too snitty. So far it’s just been one comment and the yup worked. But I expect if I manage to keep going its going to be more and pushier and want to be forearmed.

    1. Reba*

      What about simply, “yup, and I’d rather not talk about it at work” ? No need to be clever or to hint, just say what you want.

      1. just another bureaucrat*

        The problem with that is I’m continually accused of being too cold. (I suppose that I’m on a blog asking for advice on how to not have to disclose parts of my life is maybe why that happens…) But maybe just a “Yup, nothing to talk about” would be a little less chilly. I think that’s good. Thank you.

        1. irene adler*

          Correct them -tell them you are getting taller. They will chuckle and then move on to something else.
          (been there, done that)

        2. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

          You can say those words chilly or you can say those words warm. It’s intonation and facial expression, not necessarily the words per se.

          1. Reba*

            Yes, this! You could tack on “thanks for understanding,” like everyone is politely cooperating with each other to stop talking about weight.

        3. Romana*

          Speaking as someone else who’s often perceived as cold — honestly, this might work in your favor. If they’re already expecting you to be cold (and they go out of their way to tell you as much), they can’t be too disappointed if your replies are tepid when it comes to this topic too.

      2. Rusty Shackelford*

        “yup, and I’d rather not talk about it at work”

        That seems really unfriendly to me as an immediate response. If someone presses, and wants to know how much you’ve lost, what diet you’re on, etc., it would be okay to say “I really don’t like talking about it at work.” But as a response to “have you lost weight?” it seems rude. I’d say “yeah, a little bit, now back to those TPS reports” or something along those lines.

    2. Alexis Rosay*

      This might not work on every team or for every person, but once my team did a team-building exercise where each person got to name one pet peeve they have and one person shared that she hated hearing any comments about weight, whether positive or negative, her own or anyone else’s. It really made everyone conscious of it and folks were very respectful of all pet peeves that folks shared.

      1. pancakes*

        That seems like a good way to minimize the chance of getting follow-up questions. Something like, “Yup, it’s a change. Weight talk is one of my pet peeves, actually, so I hope you’ll understand I don’t want to talk about it at work.”

    3. Not A Manager*

      I think it depends on why they’re saying it. Honestly, mostly when people say something like “Oh, you’ve lost weight!” they mean it the same as “nice haircut” or even “great weather we’re having.” If it’s a passing comment, I would just smile and say thanks, and then move on.

      If someone wants to discuss it further, like “what’s your secret” or whatnot, can you be honest, in a kind way? What if you just smiled and said, “Diet talk is boring. I’d rather hear about…” which could be a work thing, or something personal about them.

    4. RagingADHD*

      I think the most boring / easily redirected answers are the ones that just have no substance at all.

      Like, “Huh, you think?”

      Or “Yeah, I guess.”

      Or “Probably.”

      All of which let you move right onto the TPS reports, or whatever.

      1. just another bureaucrat*

        I really like these, thank you! I guess especially. It would weirdly work well for me.

  118. Amarylls*

    How soon should I let my boss know that I’m probably leaving and how? I applied for a position in another department and there’s a very high chance I’ll be offered the position (which I am 99% sure I will accept) – they’re still going through the interview process so it may be a few weeks before they make a decision.

    We’re all currently WFH until at least the end of January. I think I should talk to the boss in person rather than by phone (less chance of him mis-hearing or not understanding) but I don’t know when we’ll both be in the office at the same time. If I let him know I’m going in on a specific date, he’ll probably go in too but no guarantees and I don’t want to specifically ask for a meeting.

    It’s common practice in our org that if you join a different dept, you continue to help out your old dept for a short time until they find a replacement or other staff take on your duties. So I wouldn’t just throw everything back at the boss and say “I’m leaving, bye!”. I know typically you wouldn’t resign from your current job until you accept a new one but like I said earlier, there’s a very high (>90%) chance I’ll get the offer.

    Which would be better – phone call now (even though I don’t have an offer) so there’s more time before I go, or in-person later once I accept?

    1. Colette*

      If you raise it now, I’d go for something like “Hey, I just wanted to let you know that I’ve applied for the job with Department Y. I don’t know if I’ll get it, but the opportunity was too good to pass up”. Since it’s internal, I think speaking up earlier is better because otherwise your boss might hear from someone else first.

    2. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

      Don’t rule out the possibility that your boss already knows. Typically internal moves / applications are communicated to your current manager (even if manager approval isn’t “required” to apply, as it is in a lot of places). Probably he won’t be surprised at all however you communicate this. It’s also conceivable that he knows more about the status of your offer than you do at this point!

  119. Alexis Rosay*

    Tl;dr A manager told me during an interview that I had ‘unrealistic expectations for work-life balance’; seems like a major red flag, but I might have no choice about taking an internship working for her. How do I handle being on her team?

    The long story: I’m in a career retraining program that includes a significant internship component. We do interview for our internships, but ultimately do not have much say in where we are placed. During one of my interviews, the manager asked me how I manage my work-life balance. I responded that I give 100% to work during work hours, but I unplug from work and don’t check email or notifications outside of work hours. She then announced that her team has a lot of early morning and late night meetings, and actually kind of scolded me for my response, saying that my expectations were unrealistic and “if you want to become a Llama Groomer, you cannot expect to just work an 8-5 schedule.” I have a lot of Llama Groomers in my network and they’ve said this is absolutely not true for a majority of roles–this is not Llama Emergency Medicine. I actually reported this manager to my retraining program and they said they would reach out to her for “coaching on appropriate intern expectations”, but I doubt that will fundamentally change her attitude. I’m extremely nervous that I might be placed with her for my internship. I generally have pretty good boundaries, but I’ve struggled a lot in the past with anxiety and insomnia and feeling like I have to be responsive to work 24/7, or not being able to take several hours to decompress before bed, makes those conditions worsen very quickly. If I have to intern with her, how do I approach it so that I can perform well at work and maintain an okay relationship with my boss, but also maintain my mental health? (The expectation is that it’s an intern-to-hire pipeline, but I would absolutely be making plans to get out of there.)

    1. AdequateArchaeologist*

      What are the chances you will actually get placed with that company? And if you are placed with them, is there a way you can go to your program and say “this isn’t working out with the company” and get re-assigned?

      1. Alexis Rosay*

        It’s about a 25% chance, so definitely not the most likely outcome but still feels scary. I did ask my program head who said that getting reassigned mid-internship would be possible.

    2. Chilipepper Attitude*

      If you have to work with her, adjust your hours in your head to include the meeting times. If you work 10-6 and the meetings are at 8am, you are working 8-4pm. And check with your program to confirm that you should do that. There are often rules about intern hours and you can say you have to stick to those.

      I am less sure about the internship-to-work pipeline and how to navigate it if you wind up there. Are there former students you could ask about this job and about getting jobs in other places after interning at a different one?

      I hope you get a different internship!

      1. Alexis Rosay*

        Thanks, that’s a good way to think about it. There are rules about intern hours, but not everyone manager follows them. This does remind me that internship is paid by stipend so that it averages out to just above minimum wage (intern stipends must follow minimum wage laws in our state), but if I were to work too many extra hours, it could easily come out to less than minimum wage and that would be illegal, so maybe I could use that as a reason if absolutely necessary.

    3. Hlao-roo*

      I work a job where everyone works a 40-hr week for the most part. There are some early morning or evening meetings because we work with people in different time zones, and like Chilipepper Attitude suggested, I adjust my hours around those meetings. I usually work 7:30am – 4:30 pm (1 hr unpaid lunch), but if I have a 7am meeting, I log off at 4pm. If I have a meeting from 7pm – 8pm, I log off at 3:30pm and log back on at 7pm.

      If you do get this internship, be good about boundaries. This will be difficult if the manager wants 24/7 responsiveness (and not just oddly timed meetings). A few suggestions:
      – Keep your work email off your cell phone.
      – Don’t answer work related texts/calls on your phone except for true emergencies (if that is doable in the work culture).
      – If you’re working from home, keep your work computer in a separate room if possible.
      – If you don’t have a separate room, break down your workstation at the end of the day, or cover your work computer with a towel so you’re not staring at a constant reminder of the work you could be doing.

      Best of luck!

    4. Glomarization, Esq.*

      Well, “I give 100% to work during work hours, but I unplug from work and don’t check email or notifications outside of work hours” might be your truth, but it’s a little aggressive to state outright at an interview. If the interviewer was taken aback or not too happy to hear that, I wouldn’t be surprised.

      There’s a happy medium between the extremes of “Oh, yes, I’ll be happy to be responsive 24/7” and “You get 37.5 hours from me every week, and that’s it!” You might have answered something along the lines of how, naturally, you’d be very dedicated to your work responsibilities on-site, and you’ve been a proven high performer in your past roles, and could they clarify what they mean by work-life balance. But if your immediate answer comes across as “I won’t answer your calls after 5:01 p.m.,” that’s not an answer that a lot of interviewers are going to want to hear.

  120. AdequateArchaeologist*

    I started a new job almost two months ago and I’m so happy to finally be in my field. But there are two things that are kind of bugging me.

    1. This is a salaried position. But we have to work 40 hrs every week or use PTO to fill in the gaps. I know there will likely be 5+ hr per week of OT come busy season for my position. Previously I thought a salaried position was getting paid the same weekly, even if you didn’t quite hit 40 hrs with the understanding that the overtime you are likely required to do will not be compensated. (Otherwise, why take a salaried position?). Is this just a weird assumption I had?

    2. I have a master’s degree in my field. This is often touted as a requirement to have a permanent position (which is another discussion entirely). I have slightly less practical experience than others in my position because I went directly into grad school instead of working for a year or two first.

    I found out I’m getting paid almost $6k less than someone who has a bit more experience but no M.S. Twice I’ve told coworkers what I make and they are appalled that I’m getting paid so little. There was no opportunity for negotiation when I interviewed and honestly I was desperate to just have a full time job in my field that I accepted. But now I’m kind of bothered. Should I bring up a pay increase with my boss? Or wait until I’ve been there longer? For what it’s worth I’m also bringing admin/clerical bad technical editing skills they desperately needed.

    I’d like to hear an outside perspective.

    1. Chilipepper Attitude*

      Salaried and exempt are not the same thing.
      Exempt workers are exempt from OT rules (don’t get paid overtime) and do get the same salary and if they work part of the week, get paid the same. But they might still have to use PTO for it (which is a terrible practice but not illegal).

      Salaried just means you were hired at an annual salary rather than at an hourly rate but they use your hourly rate to pay you. And since you can earn OT, I think your role is not exempt. There are laws about this you can look for and read.

      It sounds like a govt job – the 40 hours a week thing.
      And it sounds like a library – the MLIS is needed for a perm position. But also experience counts.

      I think you can raise the salary issue, but not the 40 hours exactly thing.
      Instead of asking for more money, can you ask them to explain the pay grades? How does your salary fit in with the org salary bands, what are the steps to earn more, etc.

      Then think about it and whether and how to raise the issue of more pay.

      1. Rusty Shackelford*

        AA says they’ll be working overtime, but not necessarily that they’ll be paid overtime, so they could still be exempt.

      2. AdequateArchaeologist*

        Whoops, that wasn’t clear. I will be working OT, but not getting paid for it. So I think that means I’m exempt?

        And I was told they have a range for my position. My boss and TPTB discuss my experience and skills and decide where I am on that scale, but they didn’t offer much clarity on that.

        1. Sammy Keyes*

          My understanding is that employers can’t have it both ways – they can’t treat you as exempt when it comes to OT, but non-exempt when it comes to working exactly 40 hours a week or else using PTO. There’s a useful article about it on here, actually, if you search “exempt” it will come up. This is how Alison explains it:

          “Here is something key: If you are exempt, you are supposed to be paid on a salary basis. If your employer docks your salary based on the hours you work in a given week — or if they otherwise treat you as non-exempt — they can lose the exemption for your position and suddenly owe you back pay for any overtime hours you might have worked in the past. In plain English: If they dock your pay for working fewer hours in a week, they must pay you overtime when you work more than 40 hours in a week.

          (There are some exceptions to this though; they can deduct for full-day absences when you’re out for personal reasons or sickness if they have paid sick leave and you’ve used it up. They cannot deduct for partial-day absences unless it’s your first week of work or your last week of work.)”

          1. Can Can Cannot*

            As I understand it, if you have sufficient PTO then they can require you to use PTO to cover any hours less than 40. But if you run out of PTO, they still have to pay you for 40 hours, assuming you worked some non-zero fraction of the week.

        2. Fran Fine*

          So I think that means I’m exempt?

          You need to go back and get this clarified ASAP. As someone above noted, if you truly are salaried exempt, then your employer is skirting the line with treating you exempt on one hand but then treating you as non-exempt on the other. This is not only a serious matter for you when it comes to your salary and how you get paid, but it’s also serious for your employer – they can run into legal issues if they’re miscategorizing you.

    2. Rusty Shackelford*

      1. This is a salaried position. But we have to work 40 hrs every week or use PTO to fill in the gaps. I know there will likely be 5+ hr per week of OT come busy season for my position. Previously I thought a salaried position was getting paid the same weekly, even if you didn’t quite hit 40 hrs with the understanding that the overtime you are likely required to do will not be compensated. (Otherwise, why take a salaried position?). Is this just a weird assumption I had?

      This is halfway true. For many employers, especially the more bureaucratic ones (government, schools, hospitals, libraries, etc.), salaried means you work a set number of hours per week (usually 40) and you get paid a set amount, but you also work more than that if needed. It doesn’t necessarily offer the option to work less than that. (That’s why you have so many stories of retail or food service employees being promoted to manager, put on salary, and then immediately worked to death – no overtime pay!)

  121. irene adler*

    When scheduling for subsequent interviews, how much information can/should one ask about the questions to be asked at subsequent interviews?

    (Sure, sometimes the scheduler cannot know this. I recognize that. )

    If I’m in for an hour of behavioral questions, I’d sure like to know. In fact, can I ask for these questions in advance?

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      I wouldn’t say “What questions will you be asking me?” This would be a total turn-off to me as an interviewer or scheduler. I’m not going to be hiring somebody who thinks interviewing and/or work is the same thing as cramming before the test in high school.

      But I would ask “What’s your interview process like?” or “Can you tell me what the schedule will be?”. Then you’ll probably get answers about self-assessments, or panel interviews, or live coding demonstration, or whatever.

    2. Alexis Rosay*

      I’m strongly for giving out the questions in advance, but if they’re willing to provide them they’ll say so and you wouldn’t have to ask. However, I think it would be okay to ask whether the focus will be behavioral, technical, or a mix.

    3. AnotherLibrarian*

      I agree with folks who say you can ask about the interview process and next steps, but the person scheduling may not have an answer to those questions. I would not ask for the questions in advance. As a person who hires a lot, that would seem so out of the realm of normal business practice that it would be a red flag for me as a hiring manager. Specifically, part of what I am interviewing for the jobs I hire for is a persons ability to answer questions with well thought out answers without prep and if I give you the questions, I’ve just rendered that process meaningless. Besides which, some of my questions are testing technical knowledge and I need to know if you can answer without looking it up.

  122. Talia*

    From a job posting: “Growth mindset, 1-2 years experience.”

    I just… how are you even *measuring* that?

    1. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      Well, I could see some jobs where that would be shorthand for something. Like a sales territory role – did you just manage the territory at status quo, or did you do things to increase revenue?

    2. Purple Cat*

      I would take it as they want someone with a “go-getter attitude”. (also not measurable) But not someone that wants the role and their responsibilities to stay exactly the same 3 years from now as it is today.

    3. Alexis Rosay*

      This seems like it may be a poorly worded sentence…is there any chance they want someone with a growth mindset, and separately from that, 1-2 years of experience in a similar role? Rather than 1-2 years of experience with a growth mindset (which would be weird).

        1. Texas*

          It looks like it’s a single item from a bulleted list, like from the desired skills section of a job posting. My guess is for whatever reason the employer lists the experience wanted for every skill, even when it doesn’t quite make sense like with this.

    4. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

      If it really does mean 1-2 years experience in a “growth mindset” (rather than them being two separate things on a list, as someone else suggested) – I guess it isn’t really “measurable” in a concrete sense, but what it means is more like you have 1-2 years experience in thinking/proposing how things can be improved, extended, new initiatives, etc (as opposed to “I come in in the morning, my supervisor gives me today’s tasks, I follow the instructions, I turn my tasks in and go home”).

  123. Mary Anne Spier*

    Again with the touching…
    I know this isn’t that big a problem but seriously. The people who feel like it’s OK to pick up and play with everything on your desk. For context, I’m a high school librarian and I LOVE my job. Most of my time is spent behind my circulation desk. There is a shelf behind my computer that’s a little more than a foot higher than the actual desk so when there are people standing on that side of the desk, where people should be, they can’t see what I have back here. I have some framed photos of my family and pets, a cup with pens and pencils, a few little Funko Pop Disney Princess dolls (and an Edgar Allen Poe one, who I love because he’s so delightfully out of place there), a post-it note holder shaped like a cat… just some random things. There’s plenty of room for all of this in that corner.

    Most people who come to see me stand back there but there are some teachers who have no boundaries and when they want to talk to me they walk around behind the circ desk and just start messing with things. Yesterday a teacher brought her students in to work on a puzzle game I set up in the main part of the library (which I loved her for doing) and then she came back behind my desk and started nosing around in everything I have here. She even picked up last year’s lesson plan book that was sitting on a box under my desk and said, “Oh, WOW! Is this YOUR HANDWRITING!?” Um, yes? (My handwriting isn’t that pretty but for some reason she was impressed?) I really didn’t express any irritation because I don’t know, maybe this is a dumb thing to be annoyed by.

    Today the other toucher was back. She came in, made herself at home in the second chair behind my desk, and picked up a small cloth-bound book I had sitting here. She said, “Ooooh, what’s this? This doesn’t look like a real book!” I took it and said, “Yeah, it’s mine,” and pointedly tossed it into my bag. It’s a small diary-ish book, not a personal journal, just a little book where I just down ideas to try to implement when/if I have time. I think she realized that I was annoyed because she said, “I know I’m nosy! I just… you have fun stuff back here! You have colored pencils and Disney princesses and a cat post-it holder!” I said, “Yes, you and S are the WORST, picking up my stuff and playing with it!” I was kind of acting fake-annoyed and I wouldn’t have mentioned it if she didn’t bring it up first. I just don’t really get it because when I go to talk to coworkers I don’t feel like I have to play with and examine everything they have sitting on their desks.

    OK, done venting. Maybe I just need to lighten up and try to take things less seriously.

    I work with two people in particular who

    2. Colette*

      Boundaries are good, and I think you’ll be happier if you set some.

      “Hey, would you mind not playing with the stuff on my desk?”
      “Can you stay on that side of the desk? I don’t like people in my space.”
      “Hey, could you set that back down? I don’t like people touching my stuff, especially since we’re still in the midst of a global pandemic.”

    3. Susie*

      I would so annoyed. I didn’t like people touching my stuff in the before times and would tell them so. Once politely, then if they did it again, the icy voice that freezes you came out. With Covid, they get the freezer voice immediately.

      We are back to mandatory masks and social distancing, so if someone comes in my space, I just repeat “6 feet” until they back up. Most coworkers know not to be touching my stuff and they will tell any new employees “She doesn’t like people touching her things”.

      I’m nice and welcoming, as long as you keep your hands to yourself!

    4. RagingADHD*

      I think you will be less frustrated in the long run if you practice speaking up politely instead of swallowing your feelings and resenting it.

      You don’t have to just sit there and take it, and you also don’t have to blow up or be nasty about it. There are all kinds of ways to say, “could you not?”

      1. Mary Anne Spier*

        You’re right, I know. I need to find a polite way to ask them to stop being so nosy. I just don’t know what that is. I could just clear anything interesting off my desk…

  124. Venting…*

    My boss keeps asking employees to use our LinkedIns to share business-related news. I don’t want to annoy my connections by pushing out unrelated posts, or share things unrelated to my work. I feel like I’m being asked to give the company free advertising. Is this worth pushing back on? Am I out of touch and this is just what people do now on LinkedIn? I’m low in the food chain, so should I just hope no one calls me out for not sharing?

    1. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

      I would only post things that were related to what I actually did, if that.

      The odds that someone will be running through the list of employees to see what’s been posted is probably super low enough that you can just “oops” this directive until they get bored with this idea.

      (Or just “like” someone-more-compliant’s post.)

    2. Fran Fine*

      Nah, this is becoming common, which is why I’m glad I don’t have social media of any kind. These employers are getting too invasive.

  125. Panic spiral*

    I had applied to a resume pool several months ago and included other locations I’d be open to moving. Well now, I’ve been contacted about interviewing for a position that honestly sounds great in a place I am interested in moving.

    Only I’m literally 8 months pregnant and now in a panic spiral about uprooting my entire life with a newborn in tow (as well as 2 other kids). When in the process I should tell them I’m not available to start until June at the earliest? When can I request teleworking for a few months while I get my life in order to move? Am I crazy to even consider moving and selling our house (which needs some work) and buying a new house and finding daycare in this market?

    Obviously putting the cart before the horse, I haven’t even interviewed yet but like… AHHHH

    1. AdequateArchaeologist*

      Disclaimer: I haven’t done this with small children, but I feel like I’m an expert in panicking about life choices.

      Don’t say anything about being pregnant or remote work unless you are being given an offer. If this is a place and job you would love, go for it. Hopefully by the time they get to the offer stage they’ll be so happy and impressed with you that they’ll be willing to be flexible. It will also give you an idea as to how the company is operating and how rigid they are.

  126. Aspiring Chicken Lady*

    Wait until you get the offer. If they know you’d be relocating, they’ll be factoring that into their decision.

  127. SomewhereInAmerica*

    If you get a rejection email, do you delete it right away? To be honest, I do, not because it was a rejection, but having it in my inbox will just bring back bad memories. I usually don’t delete emails immediately but rejection emails are a big exception. What about you?

    1. irene adler*

      I shove all of them into one folder. Helps to keep tabs on who actually got back to me and who never bothered to let me know they’ve hired someone else.

    2. Hattie McDoogal*

      I also delete them right away, but make a note of the rejection in my master job search spreadsheet.

    3. Wordybird*

      I keep all those emails in a “Job Decisions” folder in my email so I can refer back to them in case I apply for a position at the same company down the road.

    4. Fran Fine*

      I always deleted them immediately as well for the same reason as you. I don’t need to ruminate over bad news, and I totally would if I kept the rejection.

  128. Finance in Academia*

    So it comes up often enough that Academia is it’s own little world in terms of cultural norms.
    How much does this extend into administrative support? I’m looking for a new role in finance/accounting and there are several openings in higher-ed and I just don’t know how much of a leap it is from general businesses.

    1. Tina Belcher's Less Cool Sister*

      I spent about 7 years working in staff/admin roles in higher ed. It definitely is closer to normal business norms than faculty norms (which are a WHOLE other ball o’wax). Universities, especially their business offices, tend to operate in a more buttoned up, “corporate” way than the typical nonprofit, but with perhaps tighter budgets and fewer resources than most businesses. Their benefits tend to be pretty good (usually low cost insurance, good retirement match, and tuition discount for self/spouse/kids) but they typically don’t offer annual raises (I never received more than 1.5% and there were several years with no raise at all) and there may be limited upward trajectory in formal title, though there is no end to additional work and responsibility.

      Their “customers” are student/families, but money is also brought in through research, grants, donations, events, performing arts, all different kinds of things. I’ve worked fairly closely with the business office before it it definitely runs like a typical business, at least from my persepctive.

    2. I'm just here for the cats*

      So I’ve been in academia in admin support for 2 1/2 years now. I will preface with saying that I did not have an admin support job before this one, just worked in call centers.

      I think it depends on what area you’re going to be in. If your working for a department chair (lets say the English Department or for the college of humanities) You will probably get involved in more of the politics that come with the faculty (professors). However, if you’re going to be in a department that’s more on the student or university admin side (HR, IT, or Residence Life) then it will be a bit more like a normal non-academic job.

      One thing to keep in mind, if you are going to a state university then there are going to be some limits in regards to negotiating pay and benefits. There is usually a set structure and you cant negotiate for more. And pay increases have to go through a whole system (in my case it goes through the board of regents and state congress to be signed off on by the governor). Much of the time pay is tied to student fees. So if enrollment is down or the system won’t raise tuition then pay will not be raised either.

    3. AnonAnon*

      I’ve been an administrator in higher ed for about 10 years – 5 at a large public university, and 5 at a large private university. You’re right that the academia side has a different set of norms. But if you stick to the corporate services side (Finance, HR, real estate, legal, IT, development/strategic planning), the leap probably isn’t that great. As far as I can tell, they run pretty close to general business norms. Universities are businesses after all. At least in the US they are – I can’t speak to what it might be like in non-US countries.

      YMMV, the public university I worked at had fairly good benefits, but the biggest downside was no COL raises. For that reason, I couldn’t stay – couldn’t afford to. The private university has way better benefits and salaries, and much more resources overall. We had 3.5-4.5% COL raises every year, even throughout COVID. The culture is also much more “corporate,” which I personally prefer.

  129. Mimmy*

    I am wondering about people’s experiences with staff meetings. Specifically, how well-run are they? Does the person who runs the meetings facilitate them effectively? Here’s why I ask:

    At my current job, I’ve always found that our meetings are not always run very smoothly, even when they were in person (they’re all virtual now). This includes our daily check-ins (~15-20 minutes first thing each morning) and the weekly meetings (about an hour or so). I’m sure that’s true for many of you, but I am prone to sensory overload, so these meetings are particularly challenging for me. I do make use of captions, but it doesn’t always help. Our group is pretty big too (maybe 20-25 staff).

    I have a lot of gripes with these meetings, but my biggest challenges are when people talk over one another or forget to mute. Sometimes it can’t be helped, and people do catch themselves when they’re talking over each other. Also, it’s probably hard to control meetings when most of them involve discussions (about clients, projects, etc.). However, I’ve been in meetings with other groups where you’re encouraged to stay muted, not talk over one another, and raise your hand if we want to say something. I suggested to my supervisor that we use the “raise hand” feature in our virtual platform, and she says it’s not feasible because no one can monitor it (I’ll concede that I’m the only one that uses the feature). Plus, she doesn’t want the meetings to be so rigid, which I can respect.

    Maybe I’m asking too much, so that’s why I want to see how other meetings are run. I am dreading when they are back in person!

    1. Susie*

      Our in-person staff meeting were out of control, with side conversations and people just brainstorming out loud. Now that they are virtual, we have 1 person “in charge”, she uses agendas and gets people on point * and everyone stays on mute until we get to their turn.

      * It was a little…chaotic..at first, but she would mute people talking out of turn or just brainstorming and it’s much better now.

      1. Mimmy*

        No one has that sort of control, unfortunately. I’ve griped to my husband before, and he’s puzzled as to why our manager, who runs most meetings, doesn’t use such controls.

    2. pancakes*

      What if everyone kept the chat field open and put their questions in there? That’s what we do when one person will be doing most or all of the talking and it works well.

      1. Mimmy*

        We were actually discouraged from using the chat feature recently, I forget exactly why. Also, someone has to monitor it. I think she doesn’t want to give anyone the extra task of monitoring chat, raised hands, etc., because the people who’d likely do that may be looking at a lot of documents during the meetings, e.g., schedules, lists, etc.

        1. pancakes*

          That is difficult. If the person running the meetings can’t be bothered to scan the chat now and then or look around at participants for questions, I think someone else needs to be running the meetings!

    3. Wordybird*

      I’m not sure I’ve ever attended a well-run staff meeting.

      My supervisor at my former job LOVED meetings and would rather talk face-to-face than anything else (the kind who would send me an email and then walk down the hallway to tell me he sent the email and then start discussing the contents of said email with me) so our monthly staff meetings were always 2+ hours long. We were at a small non-profit so there was more room (expectation?) for more personal check-in type work but we didn’t actually accomplish anything or come to any decisions during these meetings. It drove me bonkers but there was no use in trying to change things when I knew my supervisor was well liked by the Board and given latitude to run things as he saw fit. I had to take the notes during said meetings or I would have checked out mentally for sure.

      My current company doesn’t run terribly efficient meetings, either. There is a weekly meeting I am required to attend even though there is little to no overlap with my work, and the meeting is run mostly by a manager who regularly talks over/interrupts others, etc. Our “social” meetings are equally chaotic (to me) with talking over, interrupting, people leaving mid-meeting to get their lunch, or, worse yet, really awkward silences because no one is really in charge so we’re all waiting around for someone to step in to take charge but no one else seems to mind (I’ve asked in a roundabout way & everyone has expressed excitement & appreciation about the social meetings/lunches). I don’t have enough capital yet to actually approach anyone in charge about any changes so I just grin and bear it. When I can, I gently insist on an email or phone call vs. a meeting, and I try to model meeting-appropriate behavior (like muting) during our meetings (a couple of my coworkers genuinely don’t seem to know how to act).

    4. onyxzinnia*

      I read a book about this topic not too long ago, “The Surprising Science of Meetings” by Steven Rogelberg. He’s a professor who has studied how meetings can be run more efficiently.

  130. CreepyPaper*

    Today was the first time since the beginning of the pandemic that I’ve had doubts about the attitude of my co-workers towards covid safety, and also wondered if I’m maybe being a bit paranoid.

    We were on a call today and out of eight of us, six people have deleted the NHS covid app, because they didn’t want to be told they had covid and made to self isolate. They are all vaccinated and boosted, so there’s that, but recently a couple of them have had it, and had it bad.

    Why did they get it? They went to a large indoor event and despite them saying ‘but we wore masks and we felt safe!!!’ they still got sick.

    I take an immunosuppressant to keep my raging crohns disease under control. This means that I’m vulnerable. I’m not going anywhere that crowded because I don’t want what happened to them to happen to me. I can’t even imagine what would happen to me if I caught it. I have had my three full doses. Technically I’m safe, right? Am I?

    One of my other co-workers shared that she was going to a theatre show this weekend. Good for her, she feels safe enough to do that, but she’s said she’s coming into the office on Monday and as I’m working there full time while the house next door is being renovated, I’m worried that she’s not going to socially distance or wear a mask or wipe down stuff in the kitchen which I’ve been doing all week even though it’s literally just been me in the office some days.

    Am I being paranoid? I don’t know. I can’t risk getting sick and I don’t know how I feel about my co-workers starting to ‘live’ again and go to gatherings where they can feasibly catch it and then maybe transmit it to me.

    Just need a sanity check, really!

    1. Admin Introvert*

      No, I don’t think you are paranoid. We have surging cases again. But some people do not care and they are tired of being cooped up and not getting to do things, so they decide “F it. I’m going to ‘live’ my life and I don’t care. If I get it, I get it”. The thing is, if you are not being safe, “living your live” could seriously endanger other people who are more vulnerable.

      No, you are not paranoid. Some people are just selfish. As long as they get what they want, they don’t care about the rest of us.

    2. I'm just here for the cats*

      I don’t think you are being paranoid. You have valid reasons and are taking precautions that are best for you. I think it’s fine if the others feel safe enough to go to large gatherings (personally i wouldn’t. I didn’t go to family Christmas because a cousin had gotten covid shortly after thanksgiving).
      I’m not sure what the NHS app is/does I assume you are in UK. I don’t know how an app could tell you if you HAVE covid. If it’s like some of the ones I’ve seen, it can tell you if you’ve been in the same area at the same time as someone who tested positive based on your location history. But I don’t keep much stock in that.

      I would say that if your co-worker isn’t masked while she is in your space to ask her to make up and keep her distance. If she gets cranky that’s on her. Just be nice and matter of fact.

      1. CreepyPaper*

        Yes I meant the track n trace app that ‘pings’ you if you’ve been a close contact.

        Sorry it’s been a long week and I am moments away from heading for bed!

    3. Romana*

      You’re not being paranoid. It drives me up the wall when people insist on how “careful” or “safe” they were while doing inherently risky activities…It’s every individual person’s call to decide their own risk threshold at this point, but I wish they would just own up to it. A friend of mine had a meltdown after testing positive for COVID the day after seeing me and went on at great length about how she “didn’t understand how this happened, she was so careful…she did [insert long list of activities] but she wore a mask!! They checked vaccination cards!” While I was there like, “well, I knew this could happen when I agreed to see you.” All of these things certainly mitigate the risk, but don’t eliminate it, especially with the way that Omicron spreads. You’re allowed to be concerned, especially since you’re immunocompromised.

      Don’t even get me started on people who are surprised that they were exposed because they “trust” their friends/family/coworkers….

      1. CreepyPaper*

        Ugh, yes, your last paragraph…

        A friend of mine got covid after going to a pub, a basketball match and then a nightclub with his workmates. ‘But I wore a mask unless I was eating or drinking!’ he cried. So? You went to a place with lots of people and omicron spreads like a bushfire over dry grass. Duh.

        This then led to a conversation where it turns out he’s been wearing cloth masks that are only one single piece of cloth and I just… really? You’re surprised you got it, mate?

    4. RagingADHD*

      Your concerns are understandable, because of your condition. It is also understandable that you would have feelings of resentment toward people who are not dealing with the same limitations that you are. That’s only human.

      However understandable those feelings may be, it is not reasonable to expect people who are vaccinated, boosted, masking, and following local laws and regulations to restrict their own personal lives even further, in order to make a coworker feel completely safe. Especially when it’s a coworker they rarely see.

      It sounds like the coworkers who went to the event and got sick are not around you, since you were on a call, and you said you’re usually the only person at the office.

      For the person coming in on Monday after the theater, you can distance from her in the otherwise empty office whether she remembers to or not. You can wipe down the kitchen before you use it if it makes you feel better (though we know surface transmission isn’t really a thing for covid, there are still normal germs as well.)

      I am sorry you’re dealing with a chronic illness. However, your coworkers are not doing anything wrong by having a different risk tolerance.

      Perhaps it would help if you can talk to your doctor to get their assessment of how safe it is for you to be in the office. Perhaps, since your coworker specifically told you about her theater plans, it might be worthwhile to put up with the noise at home on Monday if it makes you feel less stressed.

  131. New to Nonprofits*

    Curious to hear from anyone who’s moved from a career in for-profits to non-profits, and what resulted from that transition.

    I have a 19-year history in for-profit communications (but always for companies/brands that matter to me — think, excellent publishing companies, reputable brands, etc.) and last year recently landed at a communications agency. I quickly discovered agency work is not for me, so I’ve been looking around despite my short tenure. I’m now in the running for an amazing role at a nonprofit with an innovative mission that matters to me — but the job is a pay cut, and I wouldn’t be leading a team. (I’ve been leading teams for 12+ years now.)

    I can absorb a pay cut, and I’m actually intrigued by the idea of stepping away from a team. (It helps that I have a second career as an author, where I’ve seen some successes and likely have more on the horizon, so even though this is a lateral move — or even a demotion — on paper, it’s an industry switch, and I don’t have any ego tied up in it.

    I guess I’m eager to hear any feedback from people who’ve moved into nonprofits. What’s different? What should I be considering that I might not be?

    1. Daphne*

      I’ve never worked in for profits, but I after 20+ years in NFPs one of the biggest things I’ve noticed about people coming from the corporate world is that they sometimes have difficulty adjusting to having fewer resources. Resources meaning anything from not enough staff, not enough money to do everything they want, not enough resources invested in office infrastructure (e.g. older computers). You always have to be thinking about how to do more with less. YMMV – of course there are larger NFP who don’t have those challenges. A specific example that may be helpful to you — in the small arts non profit I used to work at there wasn’t huge marketing budgets for every single project. Some marquee projects would get 1 or 2 subway ads, but most projects did not.

  132. Factory worker*

    I’m a machine operator in a factory. My plant has put a freeze on call in sick days ..during a pandemic. They do this every year for January and February anyway but seems in very poor taste right now. We are not even informed about positive covid cases anymore or they don’t think we have been exposed enough. Sooo many people are out sick but who actually has covid is not known. Is this something that needs reported and if so who ?

    1. pancakes*

      I think reporting options will depend a lot on your state (and city, in some areas). I found a post that looks like a decent overview and will link to it in a separate reply. It’s titled, “Can You Get Fired For Calling In Sick?”

  133. Can't Sit Still*

    A co-worker, Jane, is out sick with Covid, because why not travel during a pandemic?! What could possibly go wrong? /s

    Anyway, I agreed to help out earlier this week, within very limited parameters, because she needed someone onsite and I was the only person she could find the night before that could pass the wellness check. That part went well, and I was able to get out of the office quickly (so many d***k nose masks, plus coughing, often the same person.) However, because I helped her out once, Jane’s manager, Sheila, keeps reaching out to me for help with other things. I helped Sheila out with an urgent item yesterday, because it needed a quick turnaround. But I’m not Jane’s backup, Sarah is! Plus, Jane is available to her team 24/7 (as is Sarah) and I’m definitely not, plus I have work a shifted schedule to match a different time zone. I’ve been forwarding everything to Sarah, who actually covers for Jane and is familiar with the work, but I’m getting frustrated. I am very good at my job and I am fast and efficient. Sarah…isn’t. So, I understand why Sheila keeps reaching out to me. I guess my question is – how can I push back? I’m afraid something will get dropped that shouldn’t and that would affect my department as well. Sheila knows she should be contacting Sarah, but keeps contacting me and cc’ing me for help.

    To add insult to injury, Jane handed out my personal cell number to her team, when my work cell number was right there! I do not answer unknown callers on my personal cell and I have been bombarded with unknown calls ever since.

    1. fueled by coffee*

      Ugh, this is so frustrating.

      I’d give one shot at politely remind Sheila that Sarah is supposed to be covering Jane (phrased like, “Not sure if you’re aware, but I was actually just filling in for Jane in a pinch, but Sarah is really Jane’s cover — she’s also on-call 24/7, and my hours are only [XYZ]”), but if that doesn’t stop things, would your own manager be able to bring this up with Sheila (or at least back you up)? I can’t imagine that taking on Jane’s work isn’t affecting your own work.

      For Jane’s team, I’d send an email/chat message saying – “I think some of you may have been given the wrong number for me. If you need to get in touch with me, please call my work cell, (###)-###-####. Thanks!” They won’t know it’s a wrong number until you tell them.

    2. TechWorker*

      Just a minor note that if you’re cc-ed on things and the email is actually addressed to the right person you should feel totally free to ignore it. It’s not your job ;) and if anyone ever queried presumably you can defensibly say you assumed the right person was handling it.

    3. Gnome*

      Depending on whether these folks are generally ones to trample boundaries (and I’m assuming they are), I would be inclined to send an email to my boss saying here’s what happened, I need you to talk to Sheila because it’s impacting my ability to do X and Y. If it keeps up after that, ever single request that isnt urgent should get an email to Sheila and my boss saying, “I think Sarah is supposed to cover this, but if you want me to do it, please let me know how to prioritize with A and B work tasks.”. It will be painful for Sheila and your boss, so they will want it to stop.

      Frankly, the part that would upset me the most is the cellphone part .. that would make me livid. I would email Jane and tell her she needs to go back to every single person she gave my number to and tell them she gave it out without permission.

  134. MCL*

    Our university just completed a huge title and compensation study recently, and we have all been assigned new titles. Our faculty and academic staff union created a huge spreadsheet in which you can compare salaries, titles, etc across campus (We are a public university so all of this is public info). I just started poking through it. Of the small number of employees who share my title, I am making the least in salary. Most people are making 8-10K more than I am. I have been employed at this institution for 13 years, and the person who is most comparable to me in salary is making $1K more than I am and has been here since 2019. I just wrote an email to my boss to start a conversation about raising my salary. Wish me luck!

  135. Lucy Skywalker*

    I just had a job interview. How soon should I write a thank-you email and what should it say?

    1. Justin*

      I had one yesterday. I sent one pretty much immediately thankign them for their time and reiterating my enthusiasm (if you are indeed enthusiastic about it), and they responded to the message with a lot of positivity, so it seems like it didn’t hurt.

    2. Filosofickle*

      Alison has a whole bunch on that — look for the “thank-you notes” category on the right

    3. AnotherLibrarian*

      I try to send mine in 48 hours. I want to really think about if I still want the job post interview and make sure the email is customized to the topics discussed.

  136. Justin*

    I haven’t said much lately but big things seem to be afoot on my career front. (I also finished the first draft of my dissertation.)

    I hope to be able to write into the good news section within a month (however long processes take)

  137. Looking for a Job*

    What should I expect after an acquisition? The small family-owned company I work at was sold to a large national entity about 18 months ago. The original owner has a 2year contract with the national entity and will soon be leaving. What are the chances that any employees will remain at the contract’s end? Are people normally fired w/o prior notice? Is severance pay ever given?

    1. Lady_Lessa*

      It depends upon the buying company.

      Mine was bought in June, but we are being run as a separate division within the company, and they are helping us with Covid rules, and with finding a new employee. (One of our business development workers gave notice today.)

      Another one brought some of us from CA to St. Louis and then either through lay offs and/or major change in job descriptions.(turning a manager into a travelling salesman) in less than 2 years. That one tried to get me to sign paperwork saying “I was leaving voluntarily” and would only give me severance if I signed. I got a lawyer on their case.

    2. Alton Brown's Evil Twin*

      It varies by industry.

      If it’s a rollup acquisition (national company buying small local skilled-trade businesses like plumbers, HVAC, independent auto shop, etc) then my experience is that most people are kept on. These acquisitions are predicated on efficiency of back-office work like purchasing and billing; those changes would have already taken place by now.

      If it’s something where they bought the business to get access to the client list, but not to things like technology (if you’re a small provider in computer software, or consulting), then the odds are greater that after the 2-year golden handcuff period is over, they’ll do a more sweeping house-cleaning.

      It’s been 2 years – what have you seen so far?

    3. Purple cat*

      A contract with the owner doesn’t sound like it has any impact/relevance for the rest of the employees?
      Since you’re already 18 months in, you should have a sense for how much overlap there is between your organization and the purchasing company. That will dictate if there’s layoffs to be expected or not.
      Typically, layoffs that occur after an acquisition should be given severance. How much lead time really depends on how much of a handoff of responsibilities needs to happen.

    4. PollyQ*

      1. It depends. I worked for a smaller tech company that was bought out by a larger tech company, and they did only minimal layoffs from our company. In fact, they laid off some of their own employees to be replaced, in some cases.

      2. Unless the owner’s contract somehow included a “no layoff” clause for the rest of you (which I doubt), then the ending of that contract shouldn’t affect anyone else’s employment one way or another. Either they need/want you to do your job or they don’t.

      3. There are some laws about when layoff warnings need to be given, but in general all you get is rumors, with no official warning. (Also note: a layoff is not a firing.)

      4. Yes, severance is pretty common for layoffs, although not guaranteed, and the amount varies widely. Sometimes it’s a flat amount, say, 2-4 weeks pay. Sometimes, it’s X weeks per year worked.

  138. Swift*

    How big of a red flag should it be if an employer is asking for an in-person interview at the moment? This is for in-person positions, so it kind of makes sense, but…still. And they aren’t letting me know of precautions they’re taking. This is in Seattle. I’ve gotten two screenings this week that talk about doing in-person interviews next week or the one after and it makes me uncomfortable, but I’m not sure if I’m off base.

    1. Filosofickle*

      If they are in-person roles, in-person interviews don’t seem out of line. However, I’d want to have at least one round by phone/video, ideally saving that for a final round. And you should absolutely ask what the precautions are if they are not volunteering it. If they can’t articulate that clearly or you don’t think the precautions are good, then you don’t want to work onsite there!

    2. I'm just here for the cats*

      If it’s in person for the job it makes sense that the interview would be in prison. I think the bigger red flag is that they arent letting you know of the precautions they are taking.

      Before you make the appointment for the in-person interview, or at the time that you are could you ask them point blank what the covid precautions are?

    3. Alexis Rosay*

      I live in Seattle, and I think it would be fine to ask for a video interview even for an in-person role, simply to cut down on everyone’s exposure (with how high infections are here right now, even the delay between the interview and starting a new role could mean that case counts might be dramatically lower by then). I’m sure that varies by sector though. I don’t think an in-person interview is necessarily a red flag, but not telling you ahead of time about their precautions might be.

    4. AnotherLibrarian*

      If you’re concerned about precautions, why not ask? It’s a perfectly reasonable question. I don’t know if it would occur to me to tell a candidate that everyone on my team is vaccinated (though we all are) or that we would all be wearing masks per Uni policy, unless I was asked. So, if you are interested in the job, ask and see what they say. Then you can decide how much of a red flag it is.

    5. RagingADHD*

      It is not a red flag at all to request in-person interviews for an in-person job.

      It is a red flag if they get tetchy when you ask about their covid safety policies, or if they don’t have reasonable ones, or if they make it clear that they are begrudgingly and half-assedly complying with legal requirements.

    6. VermilionOwl*

      I work in a hospital, in an in-person role, and interviews for my type of position are virtual. It’s a bit more difficult because candidates don’t get to see the space they would be working in except in photos, but the last thing we need right now are extra people passing through.
      I think it would absolutely be reasonable to ask about what precautions they are taking to prevent Covid transmission. You could even frame it as wanting to make sure you are following their protocols when you go to the interview. Good luck!

  139. ecnaseener*

    (CW death mention)

    My grandmother passed away this week, so I took a few days off. I dashed off a few emails to people I was supposed to meet with or who might have time-sensitive questions to let them know I would be out for the next few days with a “family emergency” — seemed like the easiest way to phrase it, but before I logged off I saw one reply already along the lines of “I hope your family is well.”

    The question is, how do I respond to those comments/questions when I get back? I don’t mind my team knowing, but I don’t really feel like responding to others with “well we had a death so we’re not great, but don’t worry it was expected so we’re okay,” bla bla bla. I can probably just ignore some of the comments, but if someone asks directly is there a good script that’s not a lie but doesn’t get into details?

    1. WellRed*

      If someone asks you directly, are you comfortable just saying, “there was a death in the family.” I doubt most people will do more than say “hope everything is all right” in which case you can say “thank you.” Honestly if they are that nosy they’ll probably ask your team why you’re out before you even return.

    2. Be kind, rewind*

      Sorry to hear about your grandmother!

      I recently had a grandparent pass and was out for several days due to logistics. I also had no problem telling my immediate team more details. Nobody else really asked for details!

      I think if you specifically say your grandmother passed, people will mentally fill in the rest (probably expected, but still sad, but doing generally OK) and not pry any more.

      Likely scenario:
      Coworker: I heard you were out for family emergency, everything OK?
      Me: Thanks for asking. Actually, my grandfather passed. [optional details based on relationship with askee]
      Coworker: Oh, so sorry for your loss/sorry to hear that
      Me: Thanks, I appreciate you saying that.

      And then transition into work talk. That’s it! I really try to hit on the “thanks for your concern” tone/script because it helps them feel like they’ve contributed what they need emotionally in this exchange, and we can both move on.

    3. fueled by coffee*

      For people you’re close with, you could respond to these platitudes with something like, “Thank you. We lost my grandmother, and we’ll miss her, but we’re managing.” I don’t think you need to imply that everything is great, but I also don’t see a reason not to mention that it was a death — that’s covered under ‘family emergency.’ If you don’t want to mention it at all, you could say, “Thanks, we’re managing” or “We’re doing our best.”

      For people you aren’t close with, “Thanks, I appreciate that,” is probably sufficient.

    4. Nesprin*

      My mother just died, so I can speak from horrible recent experience.
      “We had a death in the family, and we’re doing about as well as can be expected”
      Nice people give condolences, to which you say “Thank you”.
      Jerks keep asking questions, to which you can reply “Thanks for understanding that I don’t want to focus on this.”

    5. RagingADHD*

      “Thank you, we had a death in the family,” is fine.

      One of the aspects of “family emergency” is that people don’t know whether there’s an ongoing crisis and if they should wish you well for the outcome. So letting them know that someone passed gives them the context that it’s not an open ended thing.

  140. Camel whose back has broken*

    How do you write your performance self-review when you suck and aren’t going to change [anytime soon]?

    I have worked at the same company for 7 years. I generally got glowing performance reviews for the first 5.

    But I am the only member of my team with kids at home, so for the obvious reasons my productivity took a huge hit in 2020. By the time in-person school opened up in fall 2021, I was burnt out, dealing with physical health issues being treated but slowly, and undiagnosed mental health issues. And then as the clock turned to 2022, the schools closed, my mother was diagnosed with brain cancer and died a month later, I have to risk COVID to fly to her funeral and I am on the hook to execute her will which will take months.

    I have to write my annual performance review by the end of January. I sucked in 2021 and I don’t know what to write about that. I don’t have any plan to improve my performance, other than hoping society and my personal life take a turn for the better before it’s too late.

    I guess my plan is to write about what little I did manage to accomplish, acknowledge the balls I dropped, and lean on my manager once again to spin it as if it’s some kind of net positive contribution?

    1. Lives in a Shoe*

      My University is pushing hard for Achievements Relative to Opportunity. So essentially, use new metrics. You may not have been your pre-pandemic self (who is??), but if you managed to manage at all, you can spin that into a measure of productivity.

    2. Dark Macadamia*

      Focus on how you’ve performed *under the circumstances*, with as little comparison to pre-pandemic as possible. You might.really suck right now compared to how you were under better circumstances, but the circumstances also REALLY SUCK!

      I’m sorry for your loss. I hope things start going smoothly soon.

    3. Grace Less*

      Your review is a marketing document. Focus on everything you accomplished in spite of the challenges! Don’t undermine yourself. If your supervisor brings up perceived shortcomings, then you can work together on a plan to overcome them.

      I’m sorry about your mom and I hope that things start to look up soon.

    4. Lauren*

      I was always advised to never acknowledge shortcomings, mistakes, or perceived failures in a self-eval. I did multiple years of self-evals using that advice and never had a problem. Don’t use any negative statements (e.g., “I didn’t” or “I couldn’t”). I’m sorry to hear about your terrible year and the loss of your mom; take care of yourself.

    5. Purple cat*

      I will give you all of the advice I’m unable to follow myself.
      You need to be your biggest advocate. Tame the negative Nelly in your head (literally I only ever do self-evals at home with a glass of wine), and talk yourself up. Pretend you are writing about your favorite co-worker and not yourself. Since you are obviously my alter-ego I guarantee your performance was much better than you are giving yourself credit for.

  141. Industrial Tea Machine*

    My company switched to a new timekeeping software this week, and it’s been a hilarious, stressful, terrible transition. To be fair to our folks, I know it could have gone a lot worse, but hooo boy it was still not great. There are a ton of things missing/wrong, and the financial team isn’t even allowed in to fix them until 1/28, which is annoying for the rest of us but must be so demoralizing for the team in charge of it. They worked so hard to roll this thing out and now they’re not even allowed to make it right! I must admit that partially I’m looking for commiseration, but I also would love to hear your hair-raising tales to Software Updates/Transitions Gone Wrong.

  142. beentheredonethat*

    So, a couple of weeks ago we hired a new admin asst Jane. She came highly recommended and the last person we got from the agency was great. First day, I did onboarding and handed her over to the Helen who was training her. After a few hours, Jane asked if the boss would want her to do a lot of Excel? And Helen said yes. Then Jane told her that her friends were strippers and made really good money and it was really easy to do. She went talking about this for the next hour or so. Jane said, she didn’t want this job and left. Yep, I guess for that easier job….stripping. We hired her replacement and she has stayed 3 whole days and said this is the best salary she ever had and how great it was to work here. So we are excited that she will be back on Monday. And yes this really is the truth.

  143. :)*

    This is buried and I’m not sure anyone will care, but

    Awhile ago, I posted with the username “:(” about my awful employment situation, where I was on a PIP for not keeping my office door wide open. My review stated that my biggest strength was communication with the public and [vendor] staff, and my biggest accomplishment was writing a [workflow] how-to guide…while my biggest weaknesses, where I did not meet minimum standards, were communication and training drafts.

    Anyway…I resigned! My last day was December 31 (which was actually a holiday, so last in-office day was 12/30). I’m taking this month to myself, and reinstating with a former employer on 01/31. In the meantime, I’m still hunting and I have an interview next week for an agency I’ve been wanting to work for for YEARS now.

    3. Purple cat*

      It sounds like it’s a really good thing for you to be out of that organization! What hypocrisy in that review :(
      Best of luck!

  144. Hunnybee*

    Ok so I didn’t think I was *that* unhip, but I am wondering exactly how it is that people are making money off TikTok videos. Linkedin has been featuring articles of people who are making outragousgazilliondollars with TikTok videos, and I’ve heard for years about how people make so much money being influencers and I have yet to understand HOW. I don’t get it. And I feel like I should understand it to some degree because I work in an industry that revolves around trends.

    If there is anyone who feels patient enough to explain or send on a super basic link that makes sense to my unhip brain, please do. I’ve searched online and keep running into clickbait marketing sites, but really just want to understand how people monetize their silly video clips. I have zero intent of trying this myself : )

    1. suggestion*

      Netflix has a series called Hype House that explores this. But basically the number of viewers equals eyes and so they make most of their money with advertising deals and marketing. There is some money made from viewership but it’s not the majority. Each view is worth some amount of cents and if you have millions of viewers, that easily translates into beaucoup cash.

      1. Hunnybee*

        Netflix and I are in a serious relationship so I will be checking it out this weekend — appreciate the tip.

        AND thank you for this succinct explanation. That totally makes sense to me.

    2. fueled by coffee*

      I *believe* that at least part of it is that once someone amasses enough followers on TikTok (or whatever platform), companies will pay them for product placement.

      On YouTube and some other platforms, you can also monetize videos by having ads play before/during them, and then collect revenue based on the ad views.

    3. RagingADHD*

      For accounts with a large enough following, TikTok does revenue sharing based on engagement (the Creator Fund).

      People can also get ad revenue directly, crowdsource funding or tips directly from fans (such as Patreon), sell merchandise, and take sponsorships from brands.

  145. Insurance Limbo*

    TLDR; Should I expect reimbursement of my insurance premiums if I have been paying since November but just found out my coverage doesn’t start until Feb 1st?

    I recently (Nov) started a new job. I filled out and submitted all insurance paperwork on my first day and was under the impression (as was my supervisor) that coverage started immediately. I have also been having insurance premium deductions from all of my paychecks. I had yet to receive my insurance cards in the mail so I asked my supervisor about getting a digital copy this morning as I had an appointment coming up soon. He looked into it and informed me that I was not actually eligible for coverage until Feb 1st. In the moment I was caught off guard and didn’t think to ask about the premiums I have been paying for the last 3 months. But I should expect to get that money back right?!?

    2. PollyQ*

      Either a reimbursement, or perhaps they might apply the money to the next 3 months of your coverage. But it’s absurd that they took money from you without actually providing the service.

    3. Captain dddd-cccc-ddWdd*

      I’d be wanting to know where that money went… is it the case that everyone isn’t eligible for 3 months (?) I hope the company isn’t skimming the money back into their pockets. Thank goodness you found out because you noticed you hadn’t received any paperwork, rather than because you’d already incurred costs and then found they weren’t covered!

  146. AllyKat*

    I commented on one of these a few weeks ago about how to tell my supervisor that I wasn’t comfortable with a planned full-day outdoor in the cold training. I got a bunch of great suggestions, so thank you everyone! Ultimately, it wasn’t needed as the covid situation is so bad here that in-person events have been cancelled for the foreseeable future.

    I do have another question though, about a situation that just came up today. So I work in mental health and wellness education and support. Part of my role is going into classrooms as a guest speaker. I’m doing a series at one school right now, having done three presentations and three more to go. Apparently during my presentation yesterday a student recorded me talking about a sensitive topic regarding race and discrimination. The clip (which I haven’t seen) was then shared with others completely out of context. The school was notified by the student’s parent and I’m not in any trouble since all my work is pre-approved by the administrators, but I’m feeling almost violated. When then admin called to let me know I was able to hold it together, but when I called my supervisor to get her looped in I was bawling. I’ve been struggling with my own mental health lately (kind of ironic since I teach about it and can’t seem to get mine under control) and this was the last straw. My question is how do I go back into that classroom? Apparently the class had a debrief this morning and it was just the one student who got the wrong idea (they thought I was saying stereotypes about black people were true and good). Everyone else met the learning objectives and said they really enjoyed the presentation. But I still don’t feel comfortable right now going back in, knowing someone could be recording me and trying to make me look bad. I do have the option of asking someone else on my team to finish the presentation series, but I’m struggling with this since I don’t want to put more work on their plate.

    Any suggestions as to what I should say to the class (or not say) or how to boost my courage to go and continue the series would be greatly appreciated.

    1. Jean (just Jean)*

      I’d be angry also to be quoted out of context. But I’d also be angry at the idea that a student could try to make me too uncomfortable or self-conscious to do my job–especially if I enjoyed it–and it sounds to me that you enjoy your work. So maybe you need a mantra, something to tell yourself that you’re okay and doing a good job? Or maybe that the student was being misguided rather than malicious? Or, could you bring a coworker with you for backup, just for the next class?

      Can you ponder this over the weekend, especially if it’s a long weekend? (I’m in the U.S. where most employers are closing on Monday to observe the birthday of Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.) I hope that a refreshing break from the job will help ease the stress from this incident and restore your confidence.

      Good wishes to you. (And apologies if I’m rambling…I’m typing past my bedtime because I didn’t want to leave your comment unanswered.)

    2. Hugs to you*

      Oh, that sounds very upsetting. I would let someone else on your team finish this up this time. You’ll do it for them sometime when they need it. Not because you can’t do it, but because it sounds stressful and you don’t need the extra stress right now. It’s great that someone can take that off you — let them. And hugs if you want them.

    3. Flower necklace*

      That’s awful. I’m so sorry that happened to you.

      I assume the debrief included something about respecting the presenter and laid down a rule about not recording anything in the future. If it would make you feel more comfortable, could you ask about a way to secure cell phones beforehand?

      I am a teacher, so I know that students are used to having to put their phones away (and keep them away) in a separate area for standardized testing. I’m wondering if maybe it would help you if the school could do something similar for your presentations.

    4. AnonForThis (it's identifiable and people in my area and field come here)*

      It sounds like that student genuinely misunderstood what you were saying and wasn’t trying to make you look bad, from what I’m reading. Would you be able to have a positive 1-1 sit down with that student to clear the air and rebuild trust? And, if the student is a POC, I think it is very important to hear their perspective, understand what they thought they heard, and perhaps even takeaway insight from that.

      When COVID hit, I taught a graduate-level lifestyle and career counseling course online. One of the units was about racial stereotypes that impact career and lifestyle decisions, and I brought redlining, disparate income, housing discrimination, privilege, and Robin D’Angelo type lessons into it. I’m also a very dry and sarcastic person. Before I posted my online lecture, I listened to parts of it….and was horrified to hear myself endorsing racial injustice. My sarcasm did not come through. My dry humor did not come through. I sounded racist. I re-recorded the whole thing and kept all sarcasm, dry humor, irony, etc out of it. I also posted a microaggressions video that I absolutely love (“Microaggressions in the Classroom” video from YouTube) and had a handful of experienced PhD professors in my course who had never heard of microaggressions and told me they were “guilty” of microaggressing against POC students without realizing it until then.

    5. RagingADHD*

      I’m sorry that happened to you!

      Since these are students, and that one student’s choice appears to have been motivated by a genuine learning gap / misunderstanding, would it make you feel more empowered if you framed it as a need you can address?

      This student felt like something terrible was happening and did not know how to address it other than to try to “expose” the wrong being done. So maybe the students need to know the right way to bring up any concerns or questions they may have, that they will be heard and taken seriously.

      Perhaps it will help you to position yourself as all being on the same side, against ignorance. Rather than feeling like the student is against you.

  147. Cheezmouser*

    How do you handle creative differences with someone who is trying to undermine you?

    My husband works in a creative field, which means there’s a lot of subjectivity on what looks “good,” but there’s also a ballpark you should land in. It’s a highly competitive field where teapot designers fight to gain and retain clients. One fellow teapot designer frequently messes up my husband’s work. My husband designs the teapot, but because he’s freelance and works full time at another teapot firm, this coworker “Ricky” is the one who shows the teapot to the client and gets feedback. Well, Ricky and Hubby have different styles, so client will say blue teapot looks great and Ricky will convince them that no, they should go for a red teapot, here let me show you, and client says okay. It ends up being a ghastly (in Hubby’s opinion) purple teapot with Ricky’s signature on it.

    On one hand, I think Hubby shouldn’t care because he’s getting paid either way and he’s just freelancing. On the other hand, it’s super annoying when someone “messes up” your work and takes credit for it. You don’t want to take credit for the final product because you don’t want to be associated with creating ugly purple teapots. But that means you also can’t add that client to your client list in order to attract more clients. Ricky is obviously doing this because he genuinely disagrees with Hubby’s style and also to build his own client list (by poaching). Hubby is considering refusing to work with Ricky anymore. Would you agree?

    1. RagingADHD*

      As a freelancer, I don’t understand this at all. If Ricky is the one finding clients, communicatong with clients, and closing sales, then he’s not poaching. They are his clients. If your husband can’t make client relationships because of time constraints or noncompete agreements, then he doesn’t have a viable business. He’s a subcontractor.

      On the creative side, if your husband wants to design for clients instead of for his own satisfaction, then the “best” design is the one that the client wants. If the check clears, it’s good.

      Ricky is not undermining your husband or messing up anything. Ricky is selling.

      If your husband isn’t happy with the situation, then he shouldn’t work with Ricky. If he finds someone else to partner with, he should make sure to get all the parameters set out in writing.

      1. Cheezmouser*

        Ah, I should clarify that Ricky is also a freelancer, not the business owner. The owner (let’s call him Fergus) sells custom teapots. Fergus is a businessman, not a designer, so he hires freelancers to create the custom teapots for his clients. Both Hubby and Ricky are in Fergus’s pool of freelancers. When Hubby gets an assignment, he’s able to create the teapots during nights/weekends but not do the client presentation because those occur during normal business hours when Hubby is working at his regular job. Ricky is a struggling, less experienced freelancer who is available anytime, and thus Fergus often asks Ricky to present other designers’ teapots to the clients. What Ricky is supposed to do is just present the design and make any adjustments the clients request. But because Ricky is in competition with Hubby (and other freelancers) to get more clients, Ricky will try to convince the client to go in a different direction entirely (i.e. Ricky’s direction), make huge changes to Hubby’s design, and then claim credit for the whole project.

        Hubby is cheesed because he spends 20 hours creating the design, while Ricky spends 2 hours changing/mangling the design and then Ricky puts his name on it.

  148. KoiFeeder*

    Do you ever get a work email and just know something bad happened to result in this email being sent out?

    Got a reminder that if folks have to modify the required class materials (textbooks, tools, software, etc.) from what’s written in the syllabus during the semester, any modification which adds $100 or more to the cost of buying the required materials needs to be checked over with and approved by the dean. There are definitely some Cyprinid Chiropractic materials that might cost that much, but everything I can think of should also be available for students in the Cyprinid Chiropractic major to borrow or freely available in the labs, so I do wonder what this person tried to pull.

    1. Glomarization, Esq.*

      Details changed, but we got an all-party e-mail along the lines of: “The company hopes that everyone will get double vaccinated. If you decide against getting double vaccinated, please e-mail the CEO and the office manager by EOB today, so that the office can accommodate you and notify the staff who work with you. The company does not mandate that you get double vaccinated but we take office safety very seriously.”

      Reading between the lines and knowing some personalities, I’m pretty sure that an admin assistant was outed as anti-vax and the boss decided that one of the consequences was going to be “we will tell the lawyer(s) you assist about your status and we won’t be responsible for the look on their faces when you pop your head through the door to their office.”

    2. Enough*

      Could be someone have required something expensive but also schools are very concerned about their bottom line and if the total cost gets to be too much they will lose students.

  149. Hasha Fashasha*

    I need salary negotiation help, please! I had a great interview this week with a local city government. They were very excited about me and my experience, which is 16 years govt experience between the state and county level, with the past three years being in a very similar role as they’re hiring for. The good thing about govt is that salaries are transparent. The salary range is listed as $51-71k. I was able to look up their public employee salary records and found three city employees with the same title. All three people make $60-65k, and were hired in 1986, 2017, and 2020. Obviously I don’t know all of their experience, but I feel like I could ask for at least the same $60k as the person hired in 2020. I’m hoping for an offer later this week; what would you do if you were me if they offer at the lower end of the range? If it changes anything, the position is within the actual HR department and my negotiation will be the HR director herself, who I really think I got along well with. Thank you, AAM commentariat. You really are the best!!!

  150. Captain Lance*

    I’m making the jump to freelancing after almost 11 years of working. I am terrified but have two mentors willing to help me out so I plan on making the most of their knowledge and support. Would love to get some tips from other AAM readers who have made a similar transition. Thank you!

  151. Worker bee*

    Thought I’d give a happy update on something I’ve been posting about regarding a new procedure I’ve been trying to train my coworkers on. No one in the initial training seemed to be interested or find it beneficial and I was feeling pretty down about that, mainly because I felt like I had failed in some way. I didn’t explain it clearly enough, didn’t make it simple enough, or just was overall terrible at doing training.

    Well, recently a coworker/manager came to the office to do prep work in our off season. I mentioned the new procedure to him and he’s enthusiastic and all about doing things that way. I took everyone else’s notes from the previous training and incorporated them into what I showed him, but it wasn’t necessary.

    In any case, that made it clear to me that it wasn’t that I was terrible at the training; it was that the people I was trying to train were, bluntly, either afraid, unfamiliar, or indifferent. It was a good reminder that people who want to learn new things will make the effort. And it’s also made me realize something about myself (that I really don’t like about myself) and that’s that I am judging my coworkers for being unwilling to learn new things. And that’s basically it. I had talked to them and their managers beforehand and we had worked out a loose system, but the staff decided it was too hard to learn and said no.

    I know I’m going to keep being asked to do things like this, but going forward, I’m going to be very blunt with the owner about what’s going to happen and will tell him I’m not going to waste a couple of days of my time for people to either bobblehead at me and say nothing other than “neat” or ask me so many rapid fire questions that it confuses everyone.

Comments are closed.